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COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF HOLLYWOOD
MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY-PART 4
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-SECOND CONGKESS
FIRST SESSION
SEPTEMBER 17, 18, AND 19, 1951
Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
&1595 WASHINGTON : 1951
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Representatives
JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania ■ HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York
CLYDE DOYLE, California DONALD L. JACKSON, California
JAMES B. FRAZIER, JR., Tennessee CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan
FRAN'k S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel
Louis J. Russell, Senior Investigator
John W. Cabkington, Clerk of Committee
Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research
Special Subcommittee Appointed To Sit in Los Angeles, Calif., To Hold
Hearings on This Subject
JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania DONALD L. JACKSON, California
CLYDE DOYLE, California CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan
II
CONTENTS
September 17, 1951 :
Testimony of : Page
Harold J. Ashe 1415
Mildred Ashe 14C0
Michael Gordon 1480
Charles Daggett 14S6
Percy Solotoy 1490
September 18, 1951 :
Testimony of:
Henry Blankfort 1495
Howland Chamberlin 1503
Leo Towsend 1506
Dr. Leo Bigelman 1542
Helen Slote Levitt 1549
Alfred Levitt 1552
Bess Taffel 1560
Herbert Arthur Klein 1562
September 19, 1951 :
Testimony of :
Martin Berkeley 1576
Philip Edward Stevenson 1613
Daniel Lewis James 1622
Lilith James 1631
Georgia Backus Alexander 1635
m
COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF HOLLYWOOD MOTION-
PICTUEE INDUSTRY— PART 4
MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1951
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Committee
on Un-American Activities,
Los Angeles, Calif.
A Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met
pursuant to call at 9 : 50 a. m. in room 518 Federal Building, Los
Angeles, Calif., Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives John S. Wood
(chairman), Francis E. Walter, Donald L. Jackson, Clyde Doyle, and
Charles E. Potter.
Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Thomas
W. Beale, Si\, assistant counsel; Louis J. Russell, senior investigator;
William A. Wheeler, investigator; and John W. Carrington, clerk.
Mr. Wood. The subcommittee wil be in order.
Please let the record disclose that acting under the authority vested
in me as chairman of the Committee on Un-American Activities of
the House of Representatives, I have designated a subcommittee to
continue the hearings that were initiated in March of this year. That
subcommittee consists of Mr. Walter of Pennsylvania, Mr. Doyle of
California, Mr. Jackson of California, Mr. Potter of Michigan. There
are present of that subcommittee all of them except Mr. Doyle, whose
presence is expected momentarily.
I would like to take advantage of this opportunity to express thanks
and appreciation of the subcommittee to Mr. James J. Boyle, United
States marshal for the southern district of California, for the effi-
cient manner in which he has performed the duties of his office in
serving subpenas for the attendance of witnesses at this hearing;
Mr. E. F. Stillwell, the superintendent of the building, for his splen-
did cooperation in making facilities available to us ; and to the Signal
Corps of the United States Army for making this public-address
system available to us at these hearings.
I would also like to express the appreciation of the committee for
the splendid cooperation of many other of the citizen groups and
organizations in and around Los Angeles for their many expressions
of cooperation and splendid assistance, including the press, radio,
television, and many private groups and indvduals.
In this connection I would like to read one of the communications
which is typical of the character of the cooperation that this com-
mittee has received and is receiving in its efforts here to make an in-
vestigation in subversive influences, particularly in the field of enter-
1415
1416 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
tainment. I would like to read the following letter directed to me as
chairman under date of today which has just been handed to me.
[Reading :]
Dear Mr. Wood: With regard to the hearings of the Un-American Activities
Committee which start September 17, we beg to call your attention to the fol-
lowing:
The signatories to this letter comprise the representatives of the producers,
actors, writers, directors, and practically all of the guilds and unions whose
members are engaged in the production of motion pictures, and which, together,
constitute the Motion Picture Industry Council.
On March 21, 1951, this organization stated :
"The Motion Picture Industry Council reaffirms its consistent opposition to
communism, its works, its members, its methods. It wants to emphasize that,
with the overwhelming majority of the American people, it believes that a
'clear and present danger' to our Nation exists. The Motion Picture Industry
Council offers its strength and support to any legally constituted body that has as
its object the exposure and destruction of the international Communist Party
conspiracy."
Our position is no different today than it was earlier in the year when the
March 21st statement was made.
The Motion Picture Industry Council speaks on behalf of the motion picture
industry in Hollywood. We wish to make crystal clear our complete repudiation
of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions Council and any right of that organization
to speak for any branch of the motion picture industry in attacking the purposes
and objectives of your body.
Statements have been made that there has been resistance to the employment
of individuals because of their activity in the fight against communism. We
declare such statements to be completely untrue.
It is our understanding that a number of witnesses have been subpenaed to
testify before your body. This country is engaged in a war with communism.
Eighty-seven thousand American casualties leave little room for witnesses to
stand on the first and fifth amendments; and for those who do, we have no
sympathy.
We commend and encourage those who testify to their complete repudiation
of communism and effectively demonstrate their loyalty to our country. It is
our hope that witnesses will testify honestly, freely and fully, in cooperation
with your committee. In this time of crisis, we believe that the demands of
American patriotism makes necessary that witnesses respond to the call of their
country, as represented by your committee, and give you all information necessary
to the success of your objective.
We are hopeful that through and as a result of the hearings of your com-
mittee, ways and means will be provided which will enable the Nation to fairly,
legally and effectively deal with the problem of communism or subversive
elements.
Very truly yours,
The Motion Picture Industry Council for —
Association of Motion Picture Producers,
Artists' Managers Guild,
Hollywood AFL Film Council,
Independent Motion Picture Producers Association,
Independent Office Workers,
Screen Actors Guild,
Screen Directors Guild,
Screen Producers Guild,
Screen Writers Guild,
Society of Independent Motion Picture Producers,
Society of Motion Picture Art Directors,
United Production Managers Guild.
I would like to call further to the attention of the audience that is
present, this committee is here as representatives of the American
Congress and the American people and is charged with the responsi-
bility of doing a duty imposed upon it by the Congress. This hearing
room has been made available to this committee for this service and
is temporarily under its control. This audience is here as a courtesy
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1417
of this committee. It is not a captive audience. You are at liberty
to depart any time you see fit, but while you are here this committee
will not tolerate any demonstration, either approval or disapproval, of
anything that may be said by any witness that appears before this
committee, or any of its members, or of anything that may be done
in these transactions. I sincerely hope that in the course of these hear-
ings it will not be necessary to again refer to this matter.
This committee, approximately 3 years ago, adopted a policy which
it has uniformly adhered to of prohibiting moving pictures or televi-
sion reports from its hearing rooms. It has come to my attention that
there are present in this room now certain small moving-picture cam-
eras. I sincerely trust that this rule that has been in force by this
committee for approximately 3 years will not be violated in the course
of these hearings.
Mr. Counsel, are you ready to proceed ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wood. I have just been handed some other communications,
some several hundred that have been handed me which I haven't had
an opportunity to read, but I would like to read into the record
this letter, or at least, to refer to the letter as being sent to this com-
mittee endorsing its work, its objectives by the Grand Parlor of the
Native Sons of the Golden West, signed by Eldred L. Meyer and by Mr.
Ray Schultz, financial secretary of Local 80, Studio Grip of Los
Angeles, Calif.
Proceed.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call as the first wit-
ness this morning Mr. Harold J. Ashe.
Mr. Wood. Is Mr. Ashe in the courtroom?
Are you Mr. Ashe ?
Mr. Ashe. I am.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Ashe, will you lift your right hand and be sworn.
Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Mr. Ashe. I do, sir.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Reporter, would you let the record disclose that Mr.
Doyle, the other member of the subcommittee, is now present.
TESTIMONY OF HAROLD J. ASHE
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ashe, will you move into the chair closest to
the committee so I will be able to see you.
Are you ready?
Mr. Wood. Proceed.
Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Harold J. Ashe?
Mr. Ashe. That's right.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Ashe ?
Mr. Ashe. Irvington, Pa., February 18, 1901.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession or calling ?
Mr. Ashe. I am a free-lance magazine writer.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at one time a functionary in the Socialist
Party?
Mr. Ashe. I was
Mr. Tavenner. What position did you hold in the Socialist Party?
1418 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Ashe. State secretary of the Socialist Party of California.
Mr. Tavenner. How long were you State secretary of the Socialist
Party?
Mr. Ashe. Approximately 10 months, approximately a little longer.
Mr. Tavenner. Over what period of time was that?
Mr. Ashe. I would say from about February or March of 1933 until
possibly December or January of 1933 or 1934.
Mr. Tavenner. During the period when you held that position
where did you reside ?
Mr. Ashe. At the Socialist Party headquarters in Hollywood,
known as Commonwealth House.
Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time were you acquainted
with the activities of the Communist Party in California?
Mr. Ashe. Not at the outset, except by hearsay.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the occasion, for your learning of the
activities of the Communist Party?
Mi". Ashe. I learned of the activities of the Communist Party
directly on joining the Communist Party in September of 1933.
Mr. Tavenner. Then if I understand you correctly, that while you
were State secretary of the Socialist Party of the State of California
you were also a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Ashe. At a later date, yes. I joined the Communist Party
and the instant I joined the party I was assigned back to the Socialist
Party to work within the Socialist Party and to help capture it and
channel Socialist Party members into the Communist Party, which
I did do.
Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of the effort made by the Communist
Party to capture membership from the Socialist Party. Will you
describe to the committee what that effort was and how it materialized?
Mr. Ashe. Prior to my actually coming into the Communist Party
the Socialist Party — or the Communist Party through Sam Darcy,
the district organizer of the Communist Party, issued a call to the
Socialist Party to meet with the Communists on the basis of certain
minimum demands and for purposes of establishing a united front.
I believe the issue at the time was the threat of fascism, in which I was
greatly interested and in which the Socialist Party showed very little
real interest.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that effort to bring the Socialist Party in as
a part of the united front successful ?
Mr. Ashe. To some extent, yes. The State executive committee of
the Socialist Party resisted it. I was the only member of the State
executive committee, I believe, that voted in favor of the united front.
Subsequently I was expelled, or rather removed as State secretary of
the Socialist Party, but I wasn't expelled at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. Upon the failure of the Communist Party to obtain
an approval by a majority of the executive committee of the Socialist
Party to the Communist front — I mean to the united front plan,
what plan did the Communist Party adopt to capture the Socialist
Party?
Mr. Ashe. Well, of course, at first they tried to establish a united
front from above through the leadership. This failing, they then re-
sorted to what was called the united front from below. In other
words, they reached out and appealed to the individual rank-and-file
Socialists who were discouraged with the lack of initiative on the
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1419
part of the Socialist Party and who, like myself, were preoccupied
with the danger of communism. This was quite successful. I might
add that at the February 1934 convention of the Socialist Party a
very large part of the delegates walked out and reorganized them-
selves into a rump convention. I would say that possibly 50 of these
delegates were in this rump convention. It was almost as large as the
remaining Socialist Party convention.
Ultimately, according to Sam Darcy, the Communist Party re-
cruited approximately 600 dues-paying Socialist Party members into
the Communist Party, at which point the Communist Party had suc-
ceeded in doubling its membership.
Mr. Tavenner. It was in that campaign, in that effort by the Com-
munist Party that you became a member ?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Ashe. I joined in September of 1933. I broke off all organiza-
tional connection with the Communist Party on February 14, 1939.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you relate more in detail to the committee
the circumstances under which you became a member of the Com-
munist Party; that is, who recruited you into the party and what
initial steps were taken.
Mr. Ashe. I haven't too clear a recollection now of all of the initial
steps that were taken to get in touch with or put me in touch with
the Communist Party. I do remember distinctly that the organiza-
tional secretary of the Communist Party, Lawrence Ross, was one of
the signers of my application card, and subsequently I met with Law-
rence Ross two or three evenings a week.
Mr. Tavenner. When you first became a member and had these con-
ferences with Lawrence Ross, what instructions were given you as to
your activity within the Socialist Party, of which you were then the
State secretary ?
Mr. Ashe. I can only remember in a general sort of way. It was
simply to retain my position in the Socialist Party, not to exp6se
myself as a Communist but to infiltrate as much as I could in the
Socialist Party to recruit wherever possible. I did do a nominal
amount of recruiting, and I understand this same recruiting was go-
ing on in other parts of the State where the Communists also had
party members in the Socialist Party. There were at that time some,
oh. 30 or 40 or 50 locals of the Socialist Party scattered around the
State.
Mr. Tavenner. When you first became a member of the Communist
Party, did you meet an individual bv the name of Stanley Lawrence?
Mr. Ashe. I met Mr. Lawrence later. Mr. Lawrence came along
in about 1935. He was misrepresented to the Communist Party as
being an expert in underground work and that h^was a liaison man
in, I believe, Hungary or Austria for important Communist members
there. Later independent investigation of mine revealed that he had
been a Los Angeles taxicab driver. Just a little deceit on the part of
the Communist Party leadership.
Mr. Tavenner. That was a device used by the leadership of the
Communist Party to build up Stanley Lawrence?
Mr. Ashe. They undertook to use him to educate the party leader-
ship in Los Angeies County on underground work and things of that
1420 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
nature. I might add that he knows less about underground work
than my 6-year-old girl.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe to the committee just what the
activities of Lawrence were, as far as you know ?
Mr. Ashe. At a later elate he was put in charge of Hollywood ac-
tivity, organizing the party in studios, with particular emphasis on
professionals in the studios — the writers, the actors, and so forth.
This took the form originally, I believe, of studio study clubs. I
know Mr. Lawrence used to come down to the headquarters of the
party and depart with two or three hundred dollars' worth of books,
cloth-bound books, every week.
Mr. Tavenner. The investigation conducted by the committee dis-
closes that V. J. Jerome came to Hollywood at the time that Stanley
Lawrence was still here.
Mr. Ashe. Well, as I remember it, Stanley Lawrence made a very
observing remark which, however, the comrades resented very much.
I think he said — in the presence of some of the studio comrades, I
think he made the observation that the people in Hollywood, including
the comrades, were "only fat cows to be milked." Of course, at that
time the party had quite a few good-looking milkmaids. This resulted
in his ultimate removal, and Mr. Jerome succeeded to that position.
I first met Mr. Jerome in about, oh, I would say June or July of 1936.
He was here coincidental with Earl Browder. He didn't come with
Earl Browder but he arrived while Earl Browder was here, and I was
the first person that Jerome contacted.
Mr. Tavenner. Before proceeding further with the development of
Communist activities in Hollywood proper, I would like for you to
state what your first assignment was after joining the party, other
than having to do with the work of recruiting within the Socialist
Party.
Mr. Ashe. After I came back from the national convention of the
Communist Party in Cleveland, which was early in 1934, my first as-
signment was to the International Workers' Order. This assignment
was given to me by Elmer Hanoff, the county organizer of the Com-
munist Party. I did not solicit the assignment from the International
Workers' Order. I want that to be explicitly understood. In other
words, I went in there on the instructions of the Communist Party,
and I was accepted by the IWO as their organizer on the representa-
tion of the Communist Party that I was suitable for the work.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not this was the beginning
of the work of the International Workers' Order in California?
Mr. Ashe. The International Workers' Order was already well
organized when I went into it. They had, I would say, 12 or 15 lodges,
and most of them — in fact, all of them save one — were foreign-
language lodges.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, if you received your appointment and direc-
tions through the Communist Party, was it your opinion and conclus-
ion at that time that it was an organization dominated and controlled
by the Communist Party?
Mr. Ashe. The International Workers' Order was controlled lock,
stock, and barrel by the Communist Party and was so known.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you consider it a part of the Communist move-
ment?
COMMUNISM EST MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1421
Mr. Ashe. Definitely. I have received many donations from the
various lodges of the International Workers' Order given directly to
the Communist Party, knowingly.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you assigned to any particular cell of the
Communist Party when you first joined ?
Mr. Ashe. I was first assigned to a street unit in the Hollywood
street section of the Communist Party. This was early in 1934. How-
ever, I was traveling a great deal of the time for the party as a speaker,
and I daresay I didn't attend more than a dozen meetings all during
1934.
Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by "street section" ?
Mr. Ashe. I use that term to differentiate from the section that
later was developed there which was known as the studio section.
There has been a great deal of confusion about this in the minds of a
lot of people. They are two entirely separate and distinct sections.
The street section was then organized along strictly territorial or
geographical lines. The studio section did not recognize any geo-
graphical limitations but was determined by whether a person worked
in the studios or not.
Mr. Tavenner. But at this particular time to which you now refer,
if a person from the studio happened to live within the geographical
section, he likely would have been a member of the particular cell?
Mr. Ashe. That is true.
Mr. Tavenner. That section?
Mr. Ashe. That is correct except, back in 1934, I question very
much whether there were very many important studio people that
were members of any unit of the party in Hollywood. They may have
been members at large, or there may have been some other dispensa-
tion to take care of them.
Mr. Tavenner. Was this street section also commonly known as
the downtown section ?
Mr. Ashe. No; the downtown section was a different section, en-
tirely. The downtown section composed roughly the forty-fourth,
forty-fifth, and fifty-fourth assembly districts. It included all of the
assembly districts from the Fourteenth Congressional District except
the sixty-second.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, when did you become exposed publicly as a
member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Ashe. Immediately upon my return from the Cleveland con-
vention of the Communist Party, where I was one of the speakers.
Mr. Tavenner. That was in 1934 ?
Mr. Ashe. 1934. In fact, I was exposed at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. After your exposure, what unit or section of the
Communist Party were you assigned to ?
Mr. Ashe. It was at that time that I went into this Hollywood unit.
Mr. Tavenner. Oh, I see
Mr. Ashe. And, as I say, I was there probably until late fall, 1934.
I was running for State office, and I didn't attend very many meet-
ings.
Mr. Tavenner. What State office were you running for ?
Mr. Ashe. Secretary of state.
Mr. Tavenner. On what party?
Mr. Ashe. Communist Party.
1422 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. After you served as a member of the Hollywood
street section or group, were you transferred to another section?
Mr. Ashe. I was transferred to the downtown section, and be-
cause of certain difficulties I was experiencing in Hollywood with a
man by the name of Tashjian, who was, apparently, out to give me a
very bad time. Bob Minor intervened and, I understand, gave Mr.
Tashjian a bad time.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you: Was he a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Ashe. Dr. Tashjian?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Ashe. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What position did he hold, if any, in the Communist
Party?
Mr. Ashe. At that time I was unable to find out whether he held
any position or not, but he exerted a great deal of influence. He had
a considerable gift for intrigue and also for stirring up factional
disputes.
Mr. Tavenner. Would you describe the doctor a little more fully.
What type of doctor was he ? Was he a medical doctor ?
Mr. Ashe. He was what Bob Minor referred to contemptuously as
a "proletarian dentist."
Mr. Tavenner. As a result — he is not living at this time ; is he ?
Mr. Ashe. I believe that he died sometime ago after leaving a Com-
munist meeting.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there any effort to discipline you as a member
of the Communist Party as the result of the complaint or dispute
which the doctor had aroused?
Mr. Ashe. Well, Dr. Tashjian was a rigid little disciplinarian ; and,
not having understood clearly how I had come into the party, which
involved a considerable period of training and study under Lawrence
Ross and under Elmer Hanoff , the organization secretary and organ-
izer of the party, respectively, which involved meetings sometimes
two and three times a week with them, Dr. Tashjian decided that I
had not gone to a beginner's class and that I should go to a beginner's
class.
Well, I had been to about the equivalent of three beginner's classes,
and I had been speaking officially in the name of the Communist
Party throughout the State at mass meetings and had been meeting
in closed meetings of the Communist Party to help them straighten
out matters ; so, I thought this was going a little bit too far. However,
he did enforce his point, and I was obliged to go to one beginners'
class in Hollywood, the only time I attended. The next day, when the
county leadership found out what happened and when Bob Minor
found' out what happened, they went into a huddle and gave Dr.
Tashjian, I understand, a very, very bad time.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, was the doctor known as the chairman of the
disciplinary committee?
Mr. Ashe. Not at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. Not at that time?
Mr. Ashe. He later succeeded to that.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, you have stated that you were assigned to the
downtown section.
Mr. Ashe. That's right.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1423
Mr. Tavenner. How long were you in that section of the Commu-
nist Party ?
Mr. Ashe. I was in the downtown section, or the successors to it —
they changed the terminology some — until the day I terminated my
membership in the Communist Party, which was in February 1939.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, I would like to go back to the first group that
you were assigned to, the Hollywood street group, and ask you if you
can identify the names of the members of that group.
Mr. Ashe. I will try. Bill and Clara Ward were members ; my wife
and I were members.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, let's not go quite so fast there. Bill
Mr. Ashe. Bill and Clara Ward.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you, in identifying them, give us such
further information relating to them as you can from your recollec-
tion as to their participation and their position and vocation?
Mr. Ashe. Well, I never did— well, I'll take that back. I do now
know what Bill Ward's vocation was. He was a police officer in the
Los Angeles Police Department. Bill and Clara Ward at various
times were on — or, I believe, at one time she was membership director.
At another time — this is for the county. At another time I believe
she was dues secretary, and for a considerable length of time she served
on the disciplinary committee. In fact, I was on the disciplinary
committee for a while with her. Bill, to my knowledge — I don't be-
lieve ever held any position of responsibility, but merely went along
with his wife and sat in on many of these meetings.
Mr. Tavenner. All right. Will you continue ?
Mr. Ashe. There was a man by the name of Morton Beeman.1 I
believe he is now deceased. It is my recollection that he was organizer
at least part of the time while I was in ; his wife, Ruth, whose first
name I can't now recall. There were two Japanese whom I can't
further identify. One or two other people whom I can't bring into
focus at this time, and in addition, there was Will Geer.
Mr. Tavenner. Will Geer?
Mr. Ashe. That's right.
Mr. Tavenner. What was his occupation?
Mr. Ashe. I believe at that time he was trying to get work in the
studios. Probably did occasional bit work.
Mr. Tavenner. A person by the name of Will Geer, an actor, ap-
peared before the committee in Washington and refused to answer
questions that were propounded to him regarding his alleged Com-
munist Party affiliations and activities. Do you know whether it was
the same individual ?
Mr. Ashe. Well, it is only an assumption on my part. I think it
is a fair assumption, because I followed Will Geer's professional career
for some years. I know that the same Will Geer that I knew in 1934
was the Will Geer who appeared in two outstanding theatrical pro-
ductions m 1937 in New York City. He was appearing in two simul-
taneously, as I recall it. I believe one was called Pins and Needles.
I don't at the moment recall the other one.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, do you know whether or not there was any
change m the spelling of his name?
1 Ad individual was named by Mrs. Mildred Ashe as Morton Beaman.
1424 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Ashe. I have noticed lately that he spells it differently than
when I knew him. When I knew Will Geer he spelled it G-h-e-r-e, I
believe. I think he has since simplified it.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether he played in a picture called
the Tall Target or the Man on the Train ?
Mr. Ashe. I wouldn't know.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether he played in a picture called
Lights Out, at Universal Studio?
Mr. Ashe. No ; I do not.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet at that time a person by the name of
Hose Elf man ?
Mr. Ashe. I have since tried to refresh my memory on her, and at
this time I wouldn't want to say under oath whether she is or is not
a Communist. I know the woman. I have seen her around meetings.
1 can visualize her at a Hollywood street demonstration that we had,
but at this time I cannot positively place the woman as to party
affiliation.
Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of having met several Japanese at that
time.
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall their names ?
Mr. Ashe. No ; I cannot. I might say, however, there were, to the
best of my recollection, about 40 Japanese members of the Commu-
nist party in Los Angeles. This was their principal concentration
point, and they had a nationality commission that was located in
Los Angeles contrary to the procedure of other nationality commis-
sions.
Mr. Tavenner. In the testimony of General Willoughby before
the committee several weeks ago relating to the Sorge spy trial in
Japan, it developed there was a Japanese by the name of Miyagi who
was executed as one of the spies in that spy ring, came from Japan and
was a member of the United States Communist Party. In the course
of the interrogation of Miyagi in Japan, he referred to certain ac-
tivities of the party in California, which I want to call to your atten-
tion. In describing the activities in 1930, which I understand Avas
earlier than your connection with the party
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. He stated that it fostered — meaning by "it" the
Communist Party — fostered strikes in the Imperial valley against
such large capital concerns as the Girard Co. and the Sun Fruit Co.
and agitated among the fishermen and fishing-industry workers in
San Pedro. In the course of your activities in the party, did you ob-
tain any information relating to those incidents ?
Mr. Ashe. I knew about them only from having been told about
them by other Communist Party members. I know that at a later
date another effort was made to organize the unorganized field workers
in Imperial Valley, and I believe also in the San Joaquin Valley. I
believe these strikes were broken. I am not too clear now as to the
outcome of them. They were Communist-led.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, while you were a member of the downtown
group of the Communist Party, were you assigned the task of organiz-
ing units or sections of the Communist Party or cells of the Commu-
nist Party ?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1425
Mr. Ashe. At one time I was. I held possibly 20 positions at one
time or another in the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, I think this would be a good time for you to
state just what positions you have held in the Communist Party.
Mr. Ashe. Well, I was State chairman of the State central commit-
tee of the party in 1936. I was downtown-section organizer for about
a year, year and a half ; Western Worker correspondent for approxi-
mately a year.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, right there for just a moment. What pub-
lication was that?
Mr. Ashe. Western Worker, official publication of the Communist
Party at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it succeeded by another publication?
Mr. Ashe. Yes. I was succeeded by the People's Daily World.
Mr. Tavenner. Proceed.
Mr. Ashe. I believe I was county chairman at one time of the Relief
Workers' Protective Union, which was composed of unemployed work-
ers and which was a very fine source for recruiting party members at
that time. I was chairman of various united-front groups. I was
official speaker for the Communist Party for a considerable period of
time. I toured the State. I believe I edited a paper called the Hunger
Fighter, official organ of the Relief Workers' Protective Union, and
probably held a good many other jobs. I taught briefly in the Los
Angeles Workers' School, taught what was known as labor journalism.
Actually it was teaching them basic English.
I can't think of any more offhand. Oh, yes, I served for a while
on the Los Angeles County disciplinary committee and I was a mem-
ber of the executive committee of the Communist Party here in Los
Angeles County.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you connected at any time with the Workers'
Alliance?
Mr. Ashe. Workers' Alliance succeeded the Relief Workers' Protec-
tive Union and to the best of my recollection I was not in it at that
time. I think I was deeply involved in State organizational work for
the party.
Mr. Tavenner. You were telling the committee of the assignment
you had in organizational work in the establishment of certain cells
or units of the party. Will you continue with that, please?
Mr. Ashe. Well, as downtown-section organizer, I believe it was
called subsection for a while, and later section, I had charge of all
of the units in the section, which incidentally was, I believe, the
largest section in the city, numerically. I believe in 1936 at our
section convention we reported somewhere between 300 and 350 mem-
bers. The reason I recall this is because there was considerable argu-
ment among the delegates, who accused me of padding the member-
ship. I was in the unenviable position of not being able to reveal
to them that the membership was so large because I had attached to
the street section, several professional sections that could not be ex-
posed and couldn't even be identified by name.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you instrumental in the formation of these
professional sections ?
Mr. Ashe. The professional units ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Why was it that the membership in the units was
to be kept secret ?
1426 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Ashe. Because of the character of their employment. Some
were attorneys, some — I believe one was a dentist ; two or three of them,
I believe, were writers, newspapermen, and so forth, and so on. They
could only be recruited on the basis of not being exposed. I know,
again, I ran into Dr. Tashjian, who insisted on forcing these people
into street units where they would immediately be exposed instead of
being exposed here 15 years later.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, these individuals wanted to reap
whatever profits or advantage they could from their activities and
yet have their names concealed because they knew it was an unlawful
enterprise in which they were engaged ?
Mr. Ashe. That's right. They didn't have any guts. They don't
today.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there any name or designation for those pro-
fessional units?
Mr. Ashe. It started out very small. After the EPIC convention
in 1935, which I covered for the Daily Worker and the Western
Worker, I met two or three individuals who were sympathetic. I
took them over to the Western Worker office and high-pressured them
into the party. Those individuals were Morgan Hull — I now under-
stand he is dead — another one was John Jack Wilson, better known in
the Communist Party as John Broman; and a third person whose
name escapes me at the moment. But I recruited three that night and
in the next 2 or 3 weeks was able to convince the party that a pro-
fessional unit should be permitted.
Over Dr. Tasjian's objection we set up a unit known as Z-100.
Z-100 immediately started meeting. I usually met with them be-
cause there were no old party members to guide them. It recruited
very rapidly and I would say within about 5 months it had become
so large we had to split the unit and make another unit called Z-150.
The last I knew of these two units the combined membership totaled
about 23.
Mr. Tavenner. I wish you would give to the committee the names
of the members of these professional units whose membership was to
be kept secret.
Mr. Ashe. Jeff Kibre was one. Later on
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. In giving the names of these in-
dividuals I wish you would identify them as fully as you can so that
there will be no misunderstanding as to the individual man.
Mr. Ashe. Jeff Kibre, as I recall, was unemployed at that time. I
don't know what his background was. He was fairly young, I would
say 25 or 30.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what he is doing now ?
Mr. Ashe. Yes. He is with a fishermen's union down at San Pedro,
I believe, a branch of Harry Bridges' union, I understand.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a union organizer at any time, to your
knowledge?
Mr. Ashe. He had had no union experience at the time he came into
the party; that, I am reasonably certain of.
Mr. Tavenner. You are unaware of whether or not he had gained
such experience later?
Mr. Ashe. I presume he did through the guidance of the Commu-
nist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Was his wife a member, do you know ?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1427
Mr. Ashe. His wife was later recruited, I believe, over his vigor-
ous objections. I never did find out why he objected to his wife being
in, but I do distinctly recall that.
Mr. Tavenner. You have already spoken, I believe, of Jack Wil-
on, also known as Jack Broman.
Mr. Ashe. He was also quite young. I believe he had had some
slight amount of newspaper experience. I'm not sure now, but I be-
lieve he worked for an organization at that time known as the City
News Service. I believe they had headquarters in the old L. A. Times
Building.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what his later Communist Party ac-
tivity consisted of ?
Mr. Ashe. Well, Jack later came into the downtown street unit, did
expose himself, showed considerably more courage than a lot of
others that he had been with. He — I believe I proposed his name as
Western Worker correspondent after I was no longer holding that
position. He still went to San Francisco, worked on the West-
ern Worker, I believe, there, and still later on the People's World.
At a later date I believe he became an editor of a newspaper put
out by the fishermen's union.
Mr. Tavenner. Very well ; proceed with the naming of any others.
Mr. Ashe. Spencer Austrian, a Los Angeles attorney ; Joe Aidlin,
a Los Angeles attorney ; Percy Solotoy, a Los Angeles attorney.
Mr. Tavenner. You say Percy Solotoy ?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us any additional information relat-
ing to him ?
Mr. Ashe. I know very little about him except I met with him pos-
sibly 20 or 30 times in closed party units, Z-100 or Z-150, or both. At
that time he was an attorney, a practicing lawyer, here in Los Angeles.
I lost track of him after I got out of the party.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know he is employed or in what business he
is now engaged?
Mr. Ashe. I understand he is now the head of Brown-Saltman
Furniture Co. and also an official in the Southern California Furni-
ture Manufacturers' Association.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether his wife was also a member
of this unit ?
Mr. Ashe. To the best of by recollection, she was. I have the dis-
tinct impression that she was transferred out of that — I have a dis-
tinct impression that she was transferred out of the professional sec-
tion and into the social workers, or professional unit, I should say, into
the social workers unit, which was also attached to downtown.
Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of Spencer Austrian. Will you spell
the last name, please.
Mr. Ashe. A-u-s-t-r-i-a-n.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know anything about his present where-
abouts ?
Mr. Ashe. I understand he is still in Los Angeles.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, if you will continue, please, with the names,
if you can recall them.
Mr. Ashe. Well, Joe Aidlin I mentioned without further identify-
ing him. He was a young attorney at that time. He was married to
81595 — 51 — pt. 4 2
1428 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
a woman by the name of Mary Raden. Mary Raden at that time
was office secretary of the Communist Party of Los Angeles County.
She was not an official ; she was an office secretary. I might add that
Joe Aidlin and Mary Raden later moved into my home which I had
had at 1124 North Randall Court.
Mr. Tavenner. Did I understand that Mary Raden was a member
of this group ?
Mr. Ashe. No; she was not.
Mr. Tavenner. She was not?
Mr. Ashe. No. She was a member of a street unit in Hollywood at
that time. She was an exposed party member.
Mr. Tavenner. But she was a member of another cell of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Ashe." That's right.
Mr. Tavenner. Very well, sir. Were there others whose names
vou can recall ?
Mr. Ashe. Charlie Daggett, Los Angeles newspaperman, was a
member of that professional unit.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any additional descriptive informa-
tion you could give regarding Daggett?
Mr. Ashe. Oh, not particularly, except that he was rather a vacil-
lating sort of character.
Mr. Tavenner. I didn't mean for you to describe personal traits
particularly, unless it is necessary in order to identify the individual.
Mr. Ashe. He was a man at that time, I'd say, about 35 years old,
rather inclined to flesh, had many years' experience as a newspaper-
man. I believe he worked on the Seattle Star as city editor while that
paper was still going. I understand he worked on the Los Angeles
News around about 1934 or 1935. He was a close friend of Morgan
Hull. I would assume that Morgan Hull may have even recruited
him.
I remember at one time that Charlie Daggett undertook to write
for a magazine called New Theatre. New Theatre was a left-wing
Communist-controlled publication put out in New York. I believe
a man by the name of Herb Klein was its editor. He wrote two or
three articles in there in which he blackguarded several personalities
in Hollywood, and I know that the magazine was a sell-out in Holly-
wood and was even selling at a premium. There was a considerable
speculation as to who had written the article. I think at one time
somebody rather shrewdly guessed that he did, and about that time
they concluded that somebody else did. So they never did pin it
down to him. But Charlie Daggett has admitted to me several times,
with considerable pride, that he wrote these articles.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what his present employment is ?
Mr. Ashe. No ; I do not.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you identify him as to the meetings that he
attended. How frequently did you see him at Communist Party
meetings ?
Mr. Ashe. I would say almost every week for a period of time
when we were trying to get these professional units going and trying
to work out some formula by which the professionals could partici-
pate in Communist work without exposing themselves.
Mr. Tavenner. All right, sir; now if you will proceed to name
others, if you recall them.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1429
Mr. Ashe. Herb and Minna Klein. This Herb Klein, by the way,
is not to be confused with the editor of the New Theatre magazine.
This is Herb and Minna Klein. I believe Herb Klein had been a
correspondent for UP over in Germany before Hitler's rise to power.
I believe his immediate interest in the Communist Party when he
came in was his fear of the threat of fascism. Minna Klein came in,
I believe, at the same time. I understand later that he taught out
at Los Angeles City College as an instructor, I believe, in journalism.
I am not sure on that point.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the spelling of his last name?
Mr. Ashe. K-1-e-i-n.
Mr. Tavenner. How many meetings did he and his wife attend,
to the best of your recollection ?
Mr. Ashe. Well they attended, so far as I know, every meeting that
I attended. I would say at that time I was attending at least half of
these meetings because, as I say, there was no leadership in there that
had had any experience in the party, and for that reason I was devot-
ing a considerable amount of my time to them, including meeting with
them after their meetings were over, in my home. I might add that
most of these meetings were held in my home.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know in what business Mr. Klein is engaged
now, or how he is employed ?
Mr. Ashe. No ; I do not.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the name of others, please ?
Mr. Ashe. Lucy Stander, who was at that time the wife of J. Stand-
er, also known as Lionel Stander. He was a character actor, I believe,
in Hollywood. He, however, was not in the unit for any great length
of time. I recall distinctly that he was brought in and a very short
time later was transferred out. I don't know the reason for the trans-
fer. 1 think it was arranged directly between Stander and the county
office of the party. However, his wife remained in one of these pro-
fessional units.
Mr. Tavenner. You are definite in your statement, however, that
Lionel Stander was a member of this group ?
Mr. Ashe. Lionel Stander was definitely a member of this group.
He was transferred in, and I handled the transfer. Of that I am
positive.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall from what place he was transferred ?
Mr. Ashe. I believe New York City.
Mr. Tavenner. You referred to a person by the name of Hull a few
moments ago.
Mr. Ashe. That's Morgan Hull.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that Hull or Hall ?
Mr. Ashe. Hull, H-u-1-1.
Mr. Tavenner. Did I understand that Morgan Hull was a member
of this group ?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct. I recruited him. He was one of the
first members.
Mr. Tavenner. What was his employment?
Mr. Ashe. I believe at the time I recruited him he was a reporter
for the Los Angeles Times. I think he shortly afterward lost his
job. I am not too clear about that.
Mr. Tavenner. Was his wife a member, also, or not ?
1430 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Ashe. Charlotte Hull was also a member of the Communist
Party, coming in at the same time he did.
Mr. Tavenner. Are there others whose names you recall?
Mr. Ashe. I don't believe I mentioned a man by the name of Lou
Harris and his wife Vera Harris.
Mr. Tavenner. What was Lou Harris' position at the time?
Mr. Ashe. He was holding some minor position with Paramount
Studios. I believe, if I am not mistaken, he came out here to work in
the trade department of the publicity end of the studios, writing pub-
licity for motion-picture trade magazines and also laying out ads for
the same trade magazines.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether the name Lou is an abbrevi-
ation of a name or whether that is his full name?
Mr. Ashe. Well, I wouldn't know as to that. I never knew him as
anything else except Lou Harris.
Mr. Tavenner. L-o-u ?
Mr. Ashe. L-o-u.
Mr. Tavenner. What other persons?
Mr. Ashe. Did I mention Jane Wilson ?
Mr. Tavenner. No ; you have not.
Mr. Ashe. Jane Wilson is the sister of Jack Wilson. She is better
known in the party as Jane Wallace. I helped recruit her. Her
brother signed the card, and I countersigned it.
Mr. Tavenner. You spoke earlier of a dentist, but you did not give
a name.
Mr. Ashe. Dr. Albert Hickox.
Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Albert Hickox, H-i-c-k-o-x ?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Where was he from ?
Mr. Ashe. Los Angeles. A practicing dentist.
Mr. Tavenner. In giving us the name of Jane Wilson you did not
state what her connection was, what her affiliation was in the Com-
munist Party, other than being a member. Can you tell us anything
more about that ?
Mr. Ashe. At the time she was in this unit she was only a rank-and-
file member. At a later time I ran into her working in the Interna-
tional Workers' office as, I believe, a paid worker in there, some
secretarial capacity.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that the International Workers' Order?
Mr. Ashe. That is correct. That is when they were located in the
Douglas Building.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of
SydBirk?
Mr. Ashe. Yes, very well. Syd, I believe, is the third person that
I recruited the night I recruited Morgan Hull and Jack Wilson.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how he was later employed?
Mr. Ashe. I don't recall too much about Syd's early employment.
At the outset he certainly wasn't employed by the party. He was
unemployed for a considerable length of time. He had employment
at one time with the Mayer Advertising Co. on South Main Street.
This is a direct-mail advertising company. I lost track of Syd.
The last I knew of him he was working for, I believe, the People's
World. I had dinner with him one night in about 1946, and he was so
obtuse that I was unable to convey to him my sentiments, and we parted
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1431
friends. The next time I saw him on the street he wouldn't speak to
me, or didn't speak to me.
Mr. Tavenner. Does Syd Birk spell his name S-y-d ?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. B-u-r-k-e ?
Mr. Ashe. B-i-r-k is a party name. His real name is Berkowitz.
Mr. Tavenner. How does he spell his last name ?
Mr. Ashe. B-e-r-k-o-w-i-t-z. I would like to say, for his father,
that his father has no sympathy whatsoever for Syd's politics.
Mr. Tavenner. When was the last time that you saw Charles
Daggett ?
Mr. Ashe. I saw Charley Daggett in about 1939 up in San Fran-
cisco. A rather amusing incident impressed it on me. Charley had
just rented an apartment up there that was unfurnished, and he had
undertaken to make some furniture to get out of buying any. I recall
distinctly that he had a chair that he was very proud of and was show-
ing me the construction of it. It was simply four upright legs and a
piece to go across for the seat, and I remember that I sat down on it and
the thing collapsed. It developed that all he had done was to drive
one nail through each leg of the chair, and I know he was very much
distressed that his craftsmanship had been exposed. I really think he
ought to get himself a job as an apprentice with Percy Solotoy.
Mr. Tavenner. Did he at that time or any other time deliver to you
any document or book relating to communism ?
Mr. Ashe. Yes. He gave me a book, the 1938 Report of the Un-
American Activities Committee, which I have in my possession now
with his name on it. I understand Mr. Daggett doesn't remember me,
but I have a book I borrowed from him in his home, and I have it to
this day.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have it with you.
Mr. Ashe. I do not, unfortunately. It was a book that he, in turn,
received from Congressman Havenner, of San Francisco.
Mr. Tavenner. Containing reports of this committee ?
Mr. Ashe. That's -correct, for the year 1938.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the occasion for his giving you a report
prepared by this committee ?
Mr. Ashe. Oh, he was amused at some of the testimony and thought
it might be enlightening to me. It was, very, because at that time I
was out of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, during the period of time that you were in the
party, you must, of course, have become well acquainted with other
functionaries in the Communist Party.
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. I wish you would give us the names of the func-
tionaries in southern California who were active in the work of the
party.
Mr. Ashe. When I came into the party, the bureau was composed
of Elmer Hanoff, organizer — this is the county; Elmer Hanoff, organ-
izer: Lawrence Ross, organization secretary, and Jimmy Allen. I
never did figure out what Jimmy Allen's function was. A short time
later Hanoff was removed as organizer. Lawrence Ross became acting
organizer, and Louise Todd came down at about that time and she
became organizer. There was a considerable shuffle there. It was
quite a scandal in the party, which they hushed up. Then Ross went to
1432 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
San Francisco as editor of the Western Worker. John Leech became
organization secretary under Louise Todd until she went to Tehachapi
some time in 1935. That is the State women's — yes, prison for women.
Then Leech became organizer, and a person by the name of James
Thorm, whose real name 1 believe is Tourney, was made organizational
secretary. There were two other people around about that time. One
was Eva Shafran whom, I believe, was educational director, and Betty
Gannett was somewhere in the picture. I know she was on the county
bureau. She exerted a very great deal of influence. At the end of
1936, Leech, I believe, was removed. There was another complete
reshuffle, and Paul Cline was brought out, I believe, from the East
to be organizer. There was a lapse of several months there when there
were acting functionaries holding down the job.
Mr. Tavenner. How does Paul Cline spell his last name?
Mr. Ashe. C-1-i-n-e.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the person, Elmer Harnoff
Mr. Ashe. Hanoff.
Mr. Tavenner. — Hanoff to whom you referred also known by the
name of Pop Hanoff?
Mr. Ashe. Pop Hanoff, that's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, are there any other functionaries of the party
whose names you can now recall ?
Mr. Ashe. In the county ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Ashe. County leadership. Not offhand, no.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Tom Patterson?
Mr. Ashe. I was.
Mr. Tavenner. What was his affiliation with the party ?
Mr. Ashe. At one time he was Western Worker correspondent. I
believe for a time he was organizer in the Firestone subsection of the
Communist Party. At a later date he went up to San Francisco,
worked on the Western Worker and eventually, I believe, became some
kind of a functionary in the East Bay section of the Communist Party,
which includes Oakland and Berkeley.
Mr. Tavenner. Miriam Bonner?
Mr. Ashe. Miriam Bonner was codirector of the Worker's School
in Los Angeles during the period of 1934, 1935, 1936 with Lillian Jones.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, Pat Callahan.
Mr. Ashe. Pat Callahan was an unemployed leader here about
1935-36.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the party ?
Mr. Ashe. Definitely; member of the downtown section with his
wife.
Mr. Tavenner. Clyde Champion.
Mr. Ashe. Clyde Champion was section organizer for the party
in Belvedere subsection, 1935, 1936.
Mr. Tavenner. James Tracy.
Mr. Ashe. James Tracy was in charge of railroad work. That is,
penetration into the railroad unions and brotherhoods working out
of San Francisco. He was a delegate to the national convention of the
Communist Party in 1934.
Mr. Walter. What was that name?
Mr. Tavenner. James Tracy, T-r-a-c-y. William Ingham,
I-n-g-h-a-m?
COMMUNISM EST MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1433
Mr. Ashe. William Ingham functioned out in the San Fernando
Valley section of the Communist Party, and for a long time was a
member, and, for some time, chairman of the disciplinary committee
of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. 'Loretta Adam ?
Mr. Ashe. Mrs. Loretta Adams is one of the leaders of the Com-
munist Party in Long Beach, about 1934, 193&, and about 1936 she
transferred to Bakersfield where she was the Bakersfield — the Kern
County section organizer.
(At this time Representative Donald L. Jackson entered the room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state again the last name of that in-
dividual ? How do you spell the last name ?
Mr. Ashe. Loretta Adams, A-d-a-m-s.
Mr. Tavenner. S. Adams. E. O. Cope, C-o-p-e ?
Mr. Ashe. I know a man by the name of Cope. I am not sure of
his initials. He was active in the milk strike in 1932 and 1933 was
a Communist Party member. To my certain knowledge in 1934, when
I had to go out to San Fernando Valley representing the county in an
effort to straighten him out on some disruptive tactics that lie was
indulging in in the party out there. I didn't straighten him out-
Mr. Tavenner. You are uncertain about his initials. Can you give
us any further descriptive information which would definitely
identify the individual ?
Mr. Ashe. Short, stocky man, short tempered; unpredictable. I
believe he now works as a bartender.
Mr. Tavenner. Julia Walsh?
Mr. Ashe. Julia Walsh, who was a member of the downtown
section of the Communist Party and also was a functionary in the
International Labor Defense.
Mr. Tavenner. Cliff Lechrome, L-e-c-h-r-o-m-e?
Mr. Ashe. Cliff Lechrome was a member of one of the units of the
Hollywood Street subsection. I don't recall much else about him.
Mr. Tavenner. Charles McClaughlan, M-c-C-1-a-u-g-h-l-a-n?
Mr. Ashe. Charlie McClaughlan was Communist Party organizer
for Orange County. This was a separate section, but it was under
the guidance of the Los Angeles County section because of weakness
of leadership in Orange County.
Mr. Tavenner. M. E. Freeman ?
Mr. Ashe. M. E. Freeman was a Communist Party member down
town, I believe; also active in the old Relief Workers' Protective
Union.
Mr. Tavenner. Tom Miller ?
Mr. Ashe. Tom Miller, to the best of my understanding, is a cousin
of Emil Freed. Tom Miller was for a short period of time a mass
organization functionary and was a Communist Party member. He
held membership in a street unit in Hollywood.
Mr. Tavenner. Emil Freed, to whom you just referred
Mr. Ashe. Emil Freed was
Mr. Tavenner. The spelling is E-m-i-1 F-r-e-e-d.
Mr. Ashe. Emil Freed has, so far back as I know, been a function-
ary of one kind or another of the party. I believe at one time he was
Hollywood subsection organizer. I distinctly recall him being in
county organizational meetings. I recall one instance where he kept
asking something to be explained over and over again on the basis
1434 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
that he was afraid some of the comrades didn't understand it, and I
finally got disgusted and told him to speak for himself, and let's get
on with the agenda. He has held any number of functionary jobs,
but I don't recall at this time what they are. I remember distinctly
at a free-speech meeting in Hollywood in 1934 where he was keenly
disappointed because the police wouldn't arrest him, and he pushed
his way over to a squad car and they finally obliged him. This is the
first time he made a martyr of himself.
Mr. Tavenner. Melvyn Letzman, L-e-t-z-m-a-n ?
Mr. Ashe. Letzman was a member of the Communist Party in
Hollywood and later transferred to San Pedro and was an assistant
to whoever was then the section organizer down there. I am not sure
just who that was.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask you one or two other questions
about your Communist Party. What was your connection with the
Motion Picture Artists' Committee ?
Mr. Ashe. In about 1937 the Motion Picture Artists' Committee
conceived the idea of touring the country in their name with a motion-
picture short, about a 30-minute sound film, called Heart of Spain.
There was no one in Hollywood that they could use, so they apparently
appealed to the downtown section of the Communist Party — that is,
the county [branch] of the Communist Party to supply a suitable man-
ager and speaker for this tour. Paul Cline recommended me, and
after considerable consultation with John Howard Lawson, they fin-
ally decided that it would be all right for me to go representing the
committee, even though I was fairly widely known as a Communist
Party member. They bought a couple of old broken-down laundry
trucks which they painted up to look like ambulances, and I and several
other people made the tour of the country, ending in New York City
about the 14th of December 1937. The purpose of the trip, of course,
was to raise money for — or the ostensible purpose was to raise money
for the North American Committee To Aid Spanish Democracy.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, that was another device to raise
money for the Loyalist Spain ?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Which was the Communist Party line and project
at that particular time?
Mr. Ashe. That's right. I wouldn't want to testify as to how much
of the money ever got to Spain.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you have any direct information of your
own as to the misuse of any of that money ?
Mr. Ashe. I have just got a very strong feeling that it didn't all
get there.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, I would like at this point to go back in your
testimonv to the organizational work done by Stanley Lawrence and
later by V. J. Jerome in the motion picture industry, generally.
Mr. Ashe. Well, I am not too familiar with that aspect of the Com-
munist Party activity except insofar as I had some knowledge of it as
a result of reports made in the county executive committee meeting
in informal discussions with various functionaries of the party, in-
cluding discussions with Stanley Lawrence over coffee sometimes. I
do know that they raised a considerable sum of money out there dur-
ing that period — I believe considerably more than they anticipated
at the outset. In other words, I don't think they quite knew the
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1435
gold mine they were opening up when they did set up these study
groups. I know on one occasion Stanley — the election campaign com-
mittee, I should say, of which I was 'the head— needed some quick
money to finance the preliminary arrangements for Earl Browder to
speak at a big stadium on the East Side. We needed this money to
lay on the line right now. Stanley Lawrence raised, within a matter
of a few hours, a thousand dollars, brought it down in cash, and gave it
to me. We later paid this back. I remember another occasion when
I had to go out to Hollywood with Earl Browder to make a movie
short — I believe it was a talkie — which was to be used for campaign
purposes. It never was used, but I believe it was made. The last
thing before I left the downtown office with Browder was to receive
from Stanley Lawrence several hundred dollars to turn over to Tania
Tuttle, who had charge of making this film, and which I did turn over
to her.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, who was her husband ?
Mr. Ashe. Frank Tuttle.
Mr. Tavenner. Frank Tuttle, the director?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. From your observation and your knowledge as a
functionary of the Communist Party, what would you say was the
principal objective of the Communist Party, and how did it go about
the accomplishment of it in Hollywood ?
Mr. Ashe. In Hollywood? Well, I would say that the purpose of
the Communist Party in Hollywood was fourfold : First, to surround
the party with as many name personalities as possible, both as party
members and as sympathizers and dupes and dopes, so that they
could exploit these people's names ; and they did. Second, to recruit
members into the Communist Party. Third, to raise money, which,
as I said before, I don't think they realized at the outset the gold mine
that they had there, but which they quickly exploited to the fullest —
and, in fact, there are five points. Fourth, they wanted to control, as
far as possible, the content of the films made in Hollywood. I have
read the testimony of some of the people who have testified before
this committee, in which they insist that it is virtually impossible to
control the content. These are friendly witnesses. I have to find
myself in complete disagreement with them because I know of any
number of occasions when they did influence the content of these
films. I didn't come prepared to give chapter and verse. I could if
I had enough time to do some research. I have seen many, many
films out of Hollywood in which some part of the Communist line
was injected by deliberate intent. It couldn't have been otherwise.
At the same time, the Communist Party wanted to control the con-
tent of the film in the sense that there would be nothing of an anti-
Communist nature in there that would discredit them, and I under-
stand that they were quite effective at that at one time. I know that at
one time there were picket lines here in the city of Los Angeles picket-
ing anti-Communist films, and I am quite certain that we were advised
of the anti-Communist content of these films by the Communists in
Hollywood who would have the first knowledge of any anti-Commu-
nist content.
So I am afraid that these other witnesses who have said that it is
impossible to influence the content of the films were not sufficiently
familiar with all of the ramifications of the Communist movement
1436 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
and of all of their front organizations and of all of their immediate
aims to be competent to recognize any such Communist content when
they saw it.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, what instances can you point out to the
committee in which the Communists succeeded in influencing the
•content of the film ?
Mr. Ashe. As I said I didn't come prepared on this point. I
would like to point out, however, that Blockade was written by Clif-
ford Odets, I believe; and John Howard Lawson took the credit.
Blockade was certainly a Communist film from start to finish. It
used the situation in Spain, it is true, as the focal point for the film;
but, if I had the time and had resources, I think I could trace Blockade
right back to its original source ; namely, one of the leading propa-
gandists for the Soviet Union who had used the same film years and
years and years before — used the same theme. The same theme was
used at still a later date by a German producer who was a Communist,
and in 1938, Mr. Lawson and Clifford Odets helped themselves to it
again — gave it a different name, a little different treatment. The
theme was exactly the same.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, do you think the success in being able to im-
jjart the Communist line into the film was the result of carelessness
or any deliberate attempt on the part of the producers to permit such
a thing
Mr. Ashe. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Or was it a thing that you think was accomplished
through stealth and deceit, or how do you explain it?
Mr. Ashe. I explain it on the basis that it was a deliberate, calcu-
lated, carefully planned maneuver on the part of the Communists
who were in a position to do it and also upon the lack of vigilance
•on the part of non-Communists and anti-Communists that have never
taken the time to find out what communism is and who are allergic
to finding out to this day.
Mr. Tavenner. Is there any other instance that you can point out
to the committee?
Mr. Ashe. Not offhand.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, we were engaged in discussion of the princi-
pal objectives of the Communist Party in the organization of the party
in Hollywood. Now, you have named, I believe — this is the
fourth
Mr. Ashe. The fourth point.
Mr. Tavenner. Point.
Mr. Ashe. The fifth point is the objective of the Communist Party
to penetrate the craft unions in Hollywood and to control them. This
ties in, of course, very nicely with all of their other objectives in Holly-
wood.
Mr. Tavenner. What was done by the Communist Party to organize
or to capture the craft unions in Hollywood ?
Mr. Ashe. Well, of course, a considerable part of that took place
after I was either inactive or actually out of the Communist Party.
However
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I mean for you to testify only regarding your
own observations and the knowledge acquired by you while you were
a functionary of the party.
COMMUNISM EST MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1437
Mr. Ashe. In 1933, during a period when the Communist Party
was still a rather sectarian organization with red or mechanical ap-
proaches to problems, during a period when they still had what was
known as the TUUL, the Trade Union Unit League, during a period
when they had dual unions in which small splinter unions of Com-
munists were organized in the same industries where regular unions
were functioning, during this period of time the Communist Party
in Hollywood, with the encouragement of the downtown section of
the Communist Party, undertook to organize an industrial union
along the lines of their previous activity. The purpose of this was
to organize the crafts and the talent in one big union, which would
be controlled by the Communist Party and which would result in the
liquidation or the crushing of the craft unions.
Considerable progress was made in this. I understand at one time
they had several hundred members signed up. It was all done se-
cretly. There were a minimum of meetings held, and then suddenly
the word came down the line to the left-wingers, the Communists,
that a new line had to be taken.
Mr. Tavenner. You say that several hundred had been signed up.
Did you represent the various crafts? Were they taken from the
various crafts ?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct. They were organized along industrial
lines. That is, industry which had lines without respect to their craft
or their talent.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, these .individuals were not necessarily mem-
bers of the Communist Party
Mr. Ashe. Definitely not.
Mr. Tavenner. — nor necessarily sympathetic to the Communist
Party?
Mr. Ashe. Definitely not. They were sold a bill of goods on the
basis of an industrial union which would be more effective than the
unions had been to that time in representing talent and the craft
workers.
Mr. Tavenner. But do I understand from your testimony that the
leadership in the Communist Party was active in the promotion of
this idea
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. — and was supporting it?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, then, what occurred in the Communist Party
line ? You were about to tell us that when I interrupted you.
Mr. Ashe. Well, at that time I was not a Communist Party member.
I was in the Commonwealth House. I lived there, had my residence
there. The Communists that met out there were not too sure of just
what I was at that time, but they did indicate what was going on in
respect to this industrial union. There is one man by the name of
Helmar Bergman who has been around for many, many years. He
was a prime mover in it. Eddie O'Toole was another.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name Helmar ?
Mr. Ashe. H-e-1-m-a-r.
Mr. Tavenner. B-e-r-g-m-a-n ?
Mr. Ashe. — m-a-n. Eddie O'Toole.
Mr. Tavenner. Just a minute. Eddie O'Toole.
1438 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Ashe. That's correct, and one other person whose name escapes
me.
Mr. Tavenner. Were they members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Ashe. I don't know what their status was at that time, but I do
know that they were very disgusted when the word came down that the
industrial union had to be junked, that it was party orders, and they
acceded to party orders. Another was a man by the name of Wolf,
and I understand that he quit the party over it because he had put
many, many months of work and made a great many sacrifices to bring
this thing about, and just as it was beginning to flower and show some
results the plug was pulled.
Mr. Tavenner. You say the order came down from above?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Explain that.
Mr. Ashe. Came from Elmer Hanoff.
Mr. Tavenner. His position at that time was what?
Mr. Ashe. County organizer.
Mr. Tavenner. Of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. As the result of that, the movement was abandoned
to form — at least temporarily abandoned to form the
Mr. Ashe. That's correct, in favor of going into the already estab-
lished unions. This had become the new line of the Communist
Party, to infiltrate these unions and, where possible, to take them over,
regardless of how reactionary they were in the eyes of the Communist
Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Then came into play the organizational ability of
the Communist Party to infiltrate and take over those various
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Organizations within the movie industry?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Wood. The witness has been on the stand now for more than an
hour and a half. I think we should take about a 10-minute break at
this point. The committee will stand in recess for 10 minutes.
(Whereupon, at the hour of 11 : 30 a. m. a recess was taken for 10
minutes.)
Mr. Wood. Let's have order. The people in the audience will
please refrain from audible conversation.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ashe.
Mr. Wood. Let the witness resume.
Mr. Counsel, are you ready to proceed ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wood. We must have order, ladies and gentlemen.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ashe, we were discussing the course of conduct
that the Communist Party took in its efforts to establish an over-all
labor organization and then the change in the Communist Party line
which resulted, I believe, as you said, in Mr. Wolf resigning from the
Communist Party as a result of it, having done a great deal of work
to accomplish the first objective of the party.
Mr. Ashe. That's correct, to the best of my recollection.
Mr. Tavenner. After that plan changed, or after the Communist
Party line changed, what became the objective of the Communist
Party with regard to its efforts to obtain control and influence with
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1439
the organizations of the union organizations within the movie
industry?
Mr. Ashe. Well, as I say, this was part of an over-all plan of the
Communist Party to infiltrate all of the orthodox A. F. or L. or in-
dependent unions, wherever they might be.
About this time, during a period of mass unemployment, a very
large number of dues-paying Communist Party members were them-
selves unemployed. I distinctly remember some word about 1934
or 1935, when I was section organizer, directives came down to us
to go to any length to get Communist Party members into labor unions,
even to the extent of helping them or actually paying their initiation
fees and dues in unions. In other words, we were not going to let
anything stand in the way of infiltration, least of all a few dollars
initiation dues.
I recall that period that the downtown section of the party raised,
through a series of benefit parties, and by other means, several hundred
dollars and we did place a considerable number of downtown members
of the Communist Party in A. F. of L. trade unions . One of them later
became the business agent of, I believe, the waiters' union. I under-
stand during the war that he was a commissioned officer in the United
States Army. I can't at the moment recall his name.
We had considerable success in penetrating the painters' union
locals due in part to the fact that we already had some forces in there.
In one local on the east side, I believe it was a paperhangers' local,
and also in a painters' local on the east side, that would be Boyle
Heights. I recall
Mr. Tavenner. What was that name ?
Mr. Ashe. Boyle Heights.
Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell it?
Mr. Ashe. B-o-y-l-e H-e-i-g-h-t-s. This is a section, or one of the
old sections, of Los Angeles and a section in which the Communist
Party has always been strong, even in the old days of its sectarianism.
I recall distinctly that one Communist Party member even went so far
as to get a charter for a new local and did set up a new local of the
painters' union, which automatically put him on the painters' district
council. The name of this person is Don Healy, formerly the husband
of Dorothy Healy.
Mr. Tavenner. The person to whom you referred as Dorothy Healy
is now under indictment, I believe.
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the designation of the union to which
you referred?
Mr. Ashe. The local ?
Mr. Tavenner. The new local of the painters' union?
Mr. Ashe. I do not recall. I do remember that for a period of
time — it was a small local. For a period of time it met out in the
general vicinity of Echo Park. That is not too far from the down-
town area. I believe at one time there was talk of my going into the
local, but I wasn't able to find any time to participate in the work and
it was finally decided that I better stay out of it.
Mr. Tavenner. In the •ver-all plans of the Communist Party, what
was the ultimate objective in being able to control these various unions
within the industry through infiltration ?
1440 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Ashe. Let me understand your question. Do you mean the
ultimate aim of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. In its effort to infiltrate the various unions
within the moving-picture industry. What was it that they sought
to accomplish by adopting that policy in that project?
Mr. Ashe. I think I covered that before a recess. They had a
five-point program, as I think I outlined. If you are talking about
the ultimate aim of the Communist Party as an international organi-
zation, that is something else again. I will be glad to go into that.
Mr. Tavenner. I was not intending to go that far. It was only
as to what they were endeavoring to accomplish in Hollywood by this
type of organization of the unions.
Mr. Ashe. They were undertaking, they were hopeful of con-
trolling the motion-picture industry through organizational channels
of whatever kind they could lay their hands on.
Mr. Tavenner. In the course of your activity in the party did you
become acquainted with a person by the name of Ralph Smith ?
Mr. Ashe. I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the party ?
Mr. Ashe. He was not. He was a member of the Young Commu-
nist League. A very bright boy in Hollywood, very promising boy
from the standpoint of the Communist Party. For a short time he
was a functionary in the YCL in Hollywood. A short time later
Ralph Smith was taken out of practically all YCL work and was
assigned as a liaison man between the downtown section of the Com-
munist Party and what I later realized was the studio section of
the Communist Party. I have no detailed knowledge of his functions
but it is not too difficult to understand what it was, namely, to carry
directives, to keep a connection existing between the downtown leader-
ship and the then young, inexperienced group which was becoming
the studio section.
I might say that Ralph Smith, I interviewed him about 3 years
ago in his home up north, and made a special trip to see him, and he
professes to be out of the Communist Party today but he refuses to
bear arms in defense of the United States. I can only draw one
conclusion from that.
I know that in an effort to locate him up north — I can give you
his address if you want it — a very great deal of effort went into trac-
ing him, and it developed, I think the agency that did trace him will
agree with me in saying that there is every reason to believe that
Ralph Smith was trying to hide himself, that he had cut all connec-
tions with his friends and acquaintances in Los Angeles and had left
no forwarding address even. It was only by subterfuge that his
present location was had.
Mr. Tavenner. I will ask you, after you leave the stand, if you
will give your views of the address to an investigator of the committee.
Mr. Ashe. I will.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name
of Rena Vale?
Mr. Ashe. I didn't know Rena Vale very well.
Mr. Tavenner. V-a-l-e.
Mr. Ashe. I knew her, but I didn't know her very well. I under-
stand she was in the party. I don't think I am doing any harm to
state it in that way. I had no personal knowledge of it but she her-
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1441
self has so stated on the witness stand. She was active in, I believe^
the writers' project in Los Angeles, the WPA writers' project, which
at that time was largely, if not completely, dominated by the Com-
munist Party. I believe she held some minor function in her unit.
Mr. Tavenner. You have testified that you left the party in 1939.
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the severence of your connection with the party
occur suddenly or was it a type of action that took some time to
develop ?
Mr. Ashe. No, it was not. I think it might be interesting to some
of the Communists here, who are also looking for an escape hatch,
to find one way of getting out of the party and severing their con-
nections.
I was considered, in 193G, one of the leading members of the Com-
munist Party. In 1936 I was already becoming very, very badly dis-
illusioned with it.
I felt as early as the end of 1936 that the Communist Party was
a betrayor of the working class, and I think so today. In the fall of
1936 I asked to be relieved of all responsibility. I was quite ill and I
was being badly exploited by the party, working about 16 to 18 hours
a day. They refused to relieve me but they did promise that by the
time the election campaign was over, if I could hang on until then,
that they would in fact allow me to drop out of all full-time activity,
give me a chance to rest.
Late that fall I was more disillusioned than ever. I asked to resign.
Some of the leading members of the Communist Party told me that
I would not be permitted to resign and they made it very explicit
and very clear to me. From that time on I made up my mind that I
was going to bide my time and I was going to find a way to get
out of the party. I was going to get out on my own power, and I
did.
In 1936, when I went on the road for the Motion Picture Artists'
Committee, I thought this was my opportunity. However, I didn't
reckon with the leadership of the Communist Party. The minute I
came back from this trip I was again surrounded by the leadership.
I supposed they sensed my defection and I was made a branch organ-
izer of the forty-fourth assembly district branch. This was not a
full-time position. It was a branch that had at that time about 80
members. I functioned here until February of 1939 when the North
American Committee to Aid Spanish Democracy, later known as the
Spanish Refugee Committee — in fact, it was known as that in 1938 and
1939, asked me to become the west coast organizer for it and to re-
organize and to reactivate the local offices they had throughout the
west coast, which had fallen on evil days. The interest in Spain, and
particularly in the plight of the refugees, was on the wane. I still
honestly believed that some help could be given to these people. I
realize now that I was victimized along with those who donated their
funds, but I didn't know it at the time. I did see in this an oppor-
tunity to leave the party.
I took to the road in a car, February 14, 1939, and from that day
to this I have not paid a dime to the Communist Party and never
intend to. I have never been in a Communist Party meeting since
February 14, 1939, nor have I taken direction or dictation from any
Communist Party functionary or leader.
1442 COMMUNISM IN MOTION- PICTURE INDUSTRY
Hcwever, I will say this, that when I broke my organizational ties
with the party, I did not break all of my idealogical ties, and this is
a problem that every Communist has to go through before he can get
out of the party. I recommend to the Communists today that are
here and that are looking for a way out, and I am sure some of them
are, I would point out to them today that their comrades can't watch
them all the time ; that you can go to the public library and you can
get the other side of the story — I did. You can read Freda Utley's
moving book, The Dream That Was Ours, that showed how the Com-
munist Party betrayed her and how they betrayed the working class.
You can read that in the private of your room. You can read Eugene
Lyons' numerous books exposing communism. If there ever was a
man that can expose communism it is Eugene Lyons, because he at
one time had a dream. He, too, was an idealist. He went to Moscow,
he was a correspondent there for many, many years, and rapidly he
was disillusioned at the brutality that he saw, at the lies that he lis-
tened to. As a result he has written books that are documented so
that nobody but an ignoramus can deny that they are facts.
This is the wav I got out of the Communist Partv. I had to make
an organizational break and then I had to make an idealogical break.
The organizational break had to come first and then I had to have
time to once more think freely. You don't think in the Communist
Party, you surrender your right to think. You put your right to
think in hock to Stalin, and you pay usurious interest all the time
your right to think is in hock. I think it is the surest kind of hypoc-
risy that these Communists picketing out here today talk about this
committee denying them the right to think. They haven't got any
right to think, they gave it to Stalin. What are they talking about I
This is sheer nonsense. They can't make a move, they can't open their
mouths until they get the party line. The party line is one thing to-
day and the party line is another thing tomorrow. They have en-
slaved themselves, no committee has enslaved them. This Nation has
not enslaved them or denied them their freedom. They sold their
freedom years ago when they signed that little application card. The
only way they can get it back is to terminate their association with a
subversive and anti-American organization.
Mr. Tavenner. You made your break before Korea, didn't you ?
Mr. Ashe. I did. I made my break before the Hitler- Stalin pact.
However, 1 was still with the Spanish Refugee Committee and I lis-
tened to some of the Communists, trying to reconcile it. It was very
amusing.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your view of the duty of a member of the
Communist Party since Korea?
Mr. Ashe. The duty of a Communist Party member is not only
since Korea, but at all times and under all conditions to act as a disci-
plined Communist Party member. I don't think I need to tell the
comrades in the room that, they know it. And that discipline includes
looking out first, last, and always for the interest of the Soviet Union
to the exclusion of any conflicting interests of their own country. They
don't hesitate to do it but they like to do it in the dark.
Mr Tavenner. In the course of your vast experience as a function-
ary in the Communist Party, what was the practice with reference
to the
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1443
(Because of an exploding flash bulb there was a slight interruption
in the proceeding.)
Mr. Tavenner. I was about to ask you, Mr. Ashe, that during the
course of your vast experience as a functionary in the Communist
Party, what was taught the membership with regard to the use of force
and violence
Mr. Ashe. I will be glad to explain it.
Mr. Tavenner. In the accomplishment of the ultimate purposes of
the party ?
Mr. Ashe. The Communist Party, it must be clear, on the occasion
when I attended this one meeting at a beginners' class, they had a
teacher there who himself was not too clear upon the question of force
and violence. It was rather amusing to me because I was going there
to learn. So when this question came up he appealed to me to explain
to the comrades, and 1 will try to explain to you as best I can.
As I recall it, it is 15 years ago now, the explanation was that the
Communist Party does not believe in the use of force and Violence.
The Communist Party, vanguard of the working class, also the rear
guard — the Communist Party, the vanguard of the working class, will
lead the workers to the point where the capitalist class in dismay —
capitalist class, of course, means this country, it doesn't mean a class,
this is just Communist double talk — the capitalist class in its effort to
preserve itself will use force and violence to crush the movement of the
working class. At this point we Communists will use force and vio-
lence to insure that our gains are not lost. This is the way they explain
force and violence, but the leadership knows better. This is just for
public consumption. And any Communist in this room that doesn't
know that the Communist Party believes in the use of force and vio-
lence to overthrow our Government better get out of the party awfully
fast, because that is exactly what the Communist Party stands for and
always has stood for. You can go back to your Communist Party
classics and you can get chapter and verse on it in a dozen different
places. The Communist Party has never repudiated those classics.
They surreptitiously use them yet for their guidance, ana for the coun-
sel that it gives the Communist Party leadership.
The Communist Party takes the position that they cannot come to
power except that they use force and violence to crush the Government
that stands in its way. They uproot the courts, they throw out the
Constitution, including the first and fifth amendment behind which
the Communists are now hiding. They infiltrate and take over the
Army and the Navy with new leaders and throw out the old. They
root out every last semblance of any leadership that could conceiv-
ably be considered as having any remnants or any feelings of sym-
pathy for so-called bourgeois democracy. They feel they have to
have' a violent revolution in order to purge the country of the so-
called unreliable elements, which actually are the loyal elements who
are committed to defending our present system of government. This
is the Communist Party position on force and violence and they
can't deny it. It's in the record.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ashe, do you have anything further you desire
to say with regard to the circumstances under which you severed
your connections with the Communist Party, or have you explained
that as fully as you desire ?
81595 — 51 — pt. 4 3
1444 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Ashe. Well, I would like to say that I severed my connection
voluntarily. I was not expelled. I was presumably acceptable as
a Communist Party member right up to the last, in fact there was
considerable ignorance as to what my status was. As late as 1943
or 1944 some of the rank and file comrades who had known me
downtown took it for granted that I was still a party member. I
very quickly disabused them of that.
I would like to say that I got out because of a developing disillu-
sionment over a period of years. The party has no least semblance
of democracy, despite its protestations.
It is a monolithic party from top to bottom; a single block of
stone. The party is hard and unyielding and unconscionable. The
party members know it. They subscribe to the attitude that the
end justifies the means. From almost the outset I was in some posi-
tion of leadership and responsibility and, unlike many, many people
who have been only rank and file members or who have been isolated
in limitative activity, they, unlike myself, have not had an oppor-
tunity to get their eyes open and see what is going on in the leader-
ship, and to see the naked brutality of the leadership. I suppose
some of them never see this. Even during the period when I was
most zealous in the party, I never lost my belief in the essential
dignity of the individual, and this presented one of the difficulties
that I was always confronted with in the party, whether it was a
section organizer or as a member of the disciplinary committee, to
see the sheer brutality, the lack of human understanding by one
comrade to another.
I have seen them almost like wolves tearing individuals down who,
the day before, they had called friends. You surrender all indepen-
dent thought, all independent action to those higher in the chain of
command. Discipline is more important in the party than being
right. I mean that literally. You can make mistakes ; they will for-
give you, but if you are right and your correct position is not recog-
nized yet as a^correct position, then you are doing violence to the dis-
cipline of the party. If, later, the position is corrected and you are
proven to be correct, they still mistrust you because you have broken
discipline. This is more important than being correct. I imagine a
good many Communists can testify to this fact.
Some of the Communists had a positive genuis for self-criticism to
a point of indecency. They actually reveled in seeking out leaders
and confessing to these leaders their errors and their sins of omission
and commission. I, for a long time, thought that this would be a good
subject for psychiatrists. The party is entirely humorless — and I
think this is a significant thing — completely devoid of any remnant
of a sense of humor. I remember one time going to a county conven-
tion, and we met on a street corner, the delegates, and we were to be
picked up. So we stood on the corner of Hollywood — no, Santa Mon-
ica Boulevard and Vine Street. I don't know of any more conspicu-
ous place we could have picked, and we waited and we waited and we
waited for about 2 or ?> hours, and finally Ave were picked up.
We got into a car and went to the convention. On the way to the
convention I observed to some of the other comrades that I suppose
that nobody knew where the convention was except Red Hines, which
was literally true. Red Hines did know where it was. I was later
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1445
criticized for this. No sense of humor. It is astounding. That is
about all I have to say.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ashe —
Mr. Ashe. I would like to say one thing. During this period when
I was working my way out of the party after I learned beyond any
shadow of a doubt that there were huge concentration camps in the
interior of the Soviet Union, in which workers were imprisoned be-
cause they had been suspected of thinking, I couldn't help but wonder
what one of these brooding workers would think behind these stock-
ades as he contemplated, the Marxist admonition :
Workers of the world, unite. You will have nothing to lose but your chains
and a world to gain.
Mr. Tavenner. That is a quotation, that is from the Manifesto?
Mr. Ashe. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ashe, I had planned to ask you some other gen-
eral questions, but I believe members of the committee will likely
cover them
Mr. Ashe. All right.
Mr. Tavenner. So rather than have the repetition, I believe that I
will close my examination. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. At the outset, I requested the members of the committee
to refrain from interposing questions during the conduct of the exami-
nation by counsel and assured them that I would give each an oppor-
tunity in turn to ask such pertinent questions as they desire, but since
the hour of lunch is approaching, I think at this time I will withhold
the examination by the individual members until we return from
lunch, and the committee will now take a recess until half past 1
o'clock.
( Whereupon, at the hour of 12 : 25 p. m., an adjournment was taken
in the above proceedings until the hour of 1 : 30 p. m. of the same day.)
afternoon session
(Whereupon at the hour of 1 : 30 p. m. of the same day, the pro-
ceedings were resumed, the same members being present.)
TESTIMONY OF HAROLD J. ASHE— Resumed
Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order. Mr. Counsel, are you
ready to proceed or do you desire any further questioning yourself of
the witness ?
Mr. Tavenner. I think not, if it please Your Honor.
Mr. Wood. I yield to the members of the committee. Mr. Walter
of Pennsylvania.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Ashe, during the course of your testimony you
mentioned the names of various people who are connected with the
labor movement as having been members of the Communist Party,
and among them was Joseph Tracy, Railroad Brotherhood, the head
of the fisherman's union, the business agent for the waiters' union,
and Don Healy, of the painters' union. Do you know whether or not
those individuals are still actively engaged in union activities ?
Mr. Ashe. I would have no way of knowing about some of them.
In the case of the first person you mentioned, the correct name is Jim
Tracy.
1446 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Walter. Jim Tracy ; yes.
Mr. Ashe. I don't know whether at that time he was a member of
any union or whether he was merely assigned by the party to infil-
trate into the railroad brotherhoods by making contact with rank-and-
file railroad workers. I have no knowledge as to whether he was
actually a railroad worker himself or not. In the case of Jeff Kibre,
1 have seen his name periodically in local newspapers in connection
with fishermen's union activity.
Mr. Walter. Do you know whether or not the rank and file of these
several unions are aware of the fact that their leaders are members
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Ashe. In the case of the fishermen's union, I think they would
be singularly stupid if they didn't know.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Ashe, in your judgment, should the Congress
enact a law making membership in the Communist Party illegal ?
Mr. Ashe. I didn't get the question, sir.
Mr. Walter. Do you believe that the Congress of the United States
should enact legislation making it illegal to be a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Ashe. I certainly do.
Mr. Walter. Have you given very much thought to this question ?
Mr. Ashe. I have given a very great deal of thought to it because,
having been a Communist, I think I have a little bit different under-
standing of the Communist Party and the Communist conspiracy than
many non-Communists, anti-Communists who have felt that the Com-
munist Party should not be outlawed. I think that two immediate
courses of action should be taken against the Communist Party.
First, 1 think that they should be denied the use of the mails. I think
there Is something fundamentally wrong in this country, when we are
fighting an enemy in Korea, which enemy has allies in our own midst
and which party, the Communist Party, is virtually, in effect, being
subsidized by the United States Government in the form of second-
class mailing privileges. I think this is an outrage. I know that
if the second-class mailing privileges were taken away from the Com-
munist Party, it would strike a body blow from which it would be
almost impossible for it to recover. The rank and file Communist
Party members, and I have known them for years — I know their
mental capacity — would be unable to follow the Communist Party
line if it were not disseminated to them in newspapers that are going
freely through the mails to them. I think that there is a funda-
mental contradiction here in this country when, on one hand, we
consider the Communists a subversive organization, yet on the other
hand we permit them not only the use of the mails but give them
special mailing privileges, mind you, second-class mailing privileges,
which amount to permitting their subversive literature to go through
the mails at practically no cost to them. It is a real subsidy to them,
and that is what our United States Government is doing, I regret to
say.
In the second place, I think that the Communist Party should be
outlawed on the basis — and I would like to consult my notes here,
because I would to make this very clear — on the basis that the Com-
munist Party in fact is a subversive, conspiratorial — is a conspira-
torial agent of a foreign government. I think we should end once
and for all that it is a legitimate American political party with legiti-
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1447
mate American political aims advanced only in the arena of political
action. I think the time for talk is past. Outlawing the party will
smash it as an effective tool of the Soviet Union, which it is. If
Americans generally do not know, the Communists do know that out-
lawing the party will irreparably cripple it. It will be so preoccupied
with its own internal security measures it will have little time for
anything else, including subversive activity. All the past history of
the Communist Party in its periods of illegality point to this conclu-
sion, both in this country and in Europe, Recruiting of new mem-
bers will be almost impossible. All members will die, and the party
will wither on the vine. Its sources of money will dry up and the
lunatic fringe will disappear. I think there is something fantastic,
if not worse, in the fact that thousands of our men have died and are
dying in Korea in a war against an international Communist enemy,
yet we mealy-mouth about our own domestic branch of that enemy.
Is it any wonder that many Americans, honest Americans, are con-
fused?
It lurs been argued that outlawing the party would drive it under-
ground. I agree— 6 feet underground, and without benefit of clergy,
except, perhaps, a few who have betrayed their Christian teachings
and are leading their trusting flocks out of the promised land.
It has been suggested that outlawing the party will make martyrs
of Communists. According to the logic of this argument — and I think
it has been advanced before this committee — the logic of this group
is that we should wipe off the statute, books laws denning murder as
a crime. I believe some murderers have on occasion been cast in the
role of martyrs. How stupid and illogical can we become in defend-
ing, or failing to defend ourselves from the most dangerous enemy
our Nation has ever faced — an enemy without aided by conspiratorial
allies within ?
If Americans do not understand the body blow that outlawing the
Communist Party would be to this treasonable group, be assured that
the Communists are in no doubt about it. Temporizing and vacilla-
tion by the enemies of communism constitutes giving unwitting aid
and comfort to the Communists. The recent history of the countries
now7 behind the iron curtain is a lesson from which we must profit,
and fast, It is suggested that if the party is not outlawed it can be
watched. Actually it is underground for all practical purposes right
now. Why not legalize that fact? You cannot watch Communists,
you can't control them ; you must outlaw them. Let's be consistent,
let's act as realists. Outlaw the party now. Tomorrow7 may be too
late for us, as it is already too late for the other once free peoples who
hesitated in taking firm action and by their hesitation are now lost.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Ashe, what was the maximum number of Com-
munists in this area ?
Mr. Ashe. During my period ?
Mr. Walter. Yes.
Mr. Ashe. I would say 1,500.
Mr. Walter. That is in the Los Angeles area ?
Mr. Ashe. That is in Los Angeles County. At that time about 2,600
to 3,000 in the State,
Mr. Walter. That is all, Mr. Wood.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle of California.
1448 COMMUNISM IN MOl ION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Ashe, what sort of pay scale do the folks who were
employed in the Communist Party receive as compared with other
hired people; for instance, clerks? Are they paid a standard scale,
or a standard wage ?
Mr. Ashe. I wouldn't call it standard. It was a scab wage, non-
union wage. I believe when I was in it the going wage, when you
collected it, was something like $10 a week, but you didn't always get it.
Mr. Doyle. Doesn't the Communist Party always have sufficient
money to pay its employees well ?
Mr. Ashe. Yes. But it has never been its policy to pay them well.
Mr. Doyle. You mean, then
Mr. Ashe. I am not too clear as to why this is, unless it is for the
purpose of testing the leadership to see how much abuse they can take.
But some of them have great capacity for that.
Mr. Doyle. In your testimony you barely mentioned the subject of
Communist fronts. Do you have anything to add to that ? How were
they organized, what is the purpose of forming Communist fronts and
how do you designate their value, if any, to the Communist program ?
Mr. Ashe. Communist front, or united front, was first formulated,
I believe, in 1933 at the Communist International. It was brought
down to the sister parties, including the Communist Party in this
country, in late 1933 or 1934. I believe a man by the name of Dimitrov
wrote on it, at considerable length, in a great many pamphlets on the
subject which were distributed. The united front — - —
Mr. Doyle. Let me interrupt you. I wasn't referring to that so
much as I was the ordinary Communist front that is organized in
different communities.
Mr. Ashe. That is what I am getting to. This was an established
policy of the party, differentiating from an earlier period when they
were very sectarian. This was a new policy to penetrate broader or-
ganizations than they had in the past been able to infiltrate. The
united front was a weapon by which they could draw to them, surround
themselves with, noncommunist elements — elements that would act as
protective coloration for them in certain basic united front activities.
In other words, in the unemployment field the Communists would set
up a united front committee to attain certain minimum objectives in
the field of unemployment. Then they would have people come as
delegates from as broad a representative group of organizations as
they could, including noncommunist labor unions, churches, fraternal
organizations, youth groups of every conceivable kind. Sometimes
these delegates would themselves be-the Communists that were planted
in these organizations and sometimes they would be innocents who
had no conception whatever as to who was pulling the strings.
Mr. Doyle. During your time of leadership in the Communist Party
did the Communist Party, to your knowledge, employ and pay peo-
ple to develop these Communist fronts in California? I mean, did
they have paid workers assigned to that particular duty ?
Mr. Ashe. Generally not. Most of them were voluntary workers.
There were very few paid functionaries in the party in California at
that time.
Mr. Doyle. When you say volunteer workers, would you say a large
percentage of the Communist Party in California were really volun-
teer workers, giving a good deal of their time?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1449
Mr. Ashe. Oh, yes. The overwhelming part of them were at all
times, and I believe to this day.
Mr. Doyle. What front organization do you now have in mind,
particularly in southern California?
Mr. Ashe. Well, I have in mind specifically a united front set-up,
I believe I was chairman of it, dedicated to fighting against war and
fascism. There was another united front having to do with — this
was immediately after the EPIC campaign of 1934 — I believe there
was one involving Production for Use Congress, as they called it.
The Communist Party sent delegates there. There was some protest
from the floor as to the presence of Communist delegates. I was one
of them, and there were 10 of us from the Communist Party. We
very graciously withdrew from the conference and left behind us a
very large number of Communists who were not known as such but
who were there as delegates representing other groups. I mean this is
a, maneuver of the party.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. I notice now you mentioned
your professional unit in the Communist Party. You mentioned at-
torneys, dentists, and newspapermen.
Mr. Ashe. That's right.
Mr. Doyle. I am an attorney at law. I would be interested in ask-
ing you this question: On what basis could you recruit members
of the California bar to join an outfit that they knew was illegal?
How did they explain to you their willingness to become members
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Ashe. I never asked them to explain their willingness. It was
no concern of mine what their problem was as members of the bar,
or how they reconciled it. It was my problem to get them in, and
I did help to get them in. I think
Mr. Doyle. What possible inducement could you make to a member
of the California bar to join an illegal outfit? What arguments did
you use?
Mr. Ashe. I don't recall now. I presume I made substantially the
same argument that I made to newspapermen and any number of other
people that I recruited.
Mr. Doyle. Can you give me a sample, shortly, of the arguments
that you used to these professional men?
Mr. Ashe. That the Communist Party was working for the best
interests of the working class, that it was against war and fascism,
which at that time very many liberal people were preoccupied with
and considered it a real threat. I don't recall what else. This is
about 15 years ago.
Mr. Doyle. I realize it. You mentioned one Jeff Kibre, and you
said, as I remember it, that you thought that he either was or is with
a fisherman's union of San Pedro.
Mr. Ashe. To the best of my knowledge, that's correct.
Mr. Doyle. A branch of the Harry Bridges union.
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Doyle. From what you know of him, would you give it as your
opinion that he still would be active in the Communist program ?
Mr. Ashe. I feel that that is a reasonable assumption, considering
the nature of the union that he heads up. This is one of the unions
that I believe was expelled by the CIO in its effort to purge itself of
1450 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Communists. I think it is a fair conclusion that he is still in, in view
of the fact that I know he was in.
Mr. Doyle. This morning you didn't have time to go into the subject
very much of what campaign, if any, the Communist Party had while
you were in it to try to take over control of any of the political parties
in our State. Was there any such program, to put into positions of
leadership in any of these parties, other than in the Communist Party,
any leadership ?
Mr. Ashe. I will have to go back a little to lay a basis for it. In
1934 Upton Sinclair ran for governor on the Democratic ticket with
his EPIC movement. The Communist Party severely criticized the
EPIC movement, later took another position, finally reversed itself
and came to a third position; namely, that the Communist Party
should infiltrate the EPIC club — they had local clubs — should in-
filtrate these clubs and help to control them and, incidentally, do
Communits Party recruiting in this. However, this final decision was
made solely that it had no practical effect on Mr. Sinclair's campaign.
However, the following spring — I would say about February, pos-
sibly— the EPIC's had a post mortem convention at the A. F. of L.
Labor Temple, and at that time the Communists were beginning to
infiltrate into the EPIC movement. I remember the EPIC movement
expressed itself through the Democratic Party. From then on the
Communists made considerable headway in Democratic clubs. I have
not too much actual knowledge of this except insofar as it was a matter
of discussion in the Communist Party committee meetings. I do
know they made a considerable amount of headway, but I am not in
any position to name names at this late date. I do know, without
any shadow of doubt, that they did make headway.
Mr. Doyle. You mentioned a Syd Birke, B-i-r-k-e. I noticed that
you said that was a party name, B-i-r-k-e ?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Doyle. And that Berkowitz was his real name ?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Doyle. What do you mean by a party name ?
Mr. Ashe. A party name is a name — not in all instances, but in
many instances people joining the Communist Party will, upon
their application card, select another name by which they will be
known in the party or, more often, by which the party card will be
issued. Now, this may sound a little confusing. In some instances
a person will be consistent in taking a party name and will use the
party name in every sense of the word. John Broman is an example.
He is better known today as John Broman than he is his real name,
Jack Wilson. In other words, he took this party name, but I have
always been known as an open party member and used my real name
in speaking on behalf of the Communist Party, once I came out into the
open.
Mr. Doyle. Well, is a fictitious name generally encouraged for
party members ?
Mr. Ashe. At the time I came in it was ; yes. It was considered a
security measure.
Mr. Doyle. Security against what ?
Mr. Ashe. Security against being exposed as a Communist Party
member.
Mr. Doyle. I notice you testified as to Emil Freedman — —
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1451
Mr. Ashe. Freed.
Mr. Doyle. Freed ?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Doyle. I think you said that he pushed his way to a squad car
and they finally obliged him ; this was the first time he made a martyr
of himself.
Mr. Ashe. That's correct. He was a rather amusing character in
the party at the time I was there.
Mr. Doyle. It is a general thing in the Communist Party member-
ship that they try to make martyrs of themselves?
Mr. Ashe. No; it is not. Not at that time. The policy was, of
course, to not flinch before the police if we had tangled with the
police, which we did at that time, but at the same time it was not
the party policy, nor is it the policy of the International Labor De-
fense, to seek out unnecessary arrests which would involve the legal
defense of people M*ho otherwise wouldn't have to be defended. It
is an expensive procedure. Occasionally they would make an issue
for purposes of propaganda, but he was certainly under no such in-
struction, and it was a case of individual action on his part, and he
was criticized for it.
Mr. Doyle. I notice when you listed the five objectives of the Com-
munist Party in Los Angeles County and in California, so far as Hol-
lywood was concerned, the last one you listed, I believe, or identified,
was in the sense of a criticism, I took it, or a suggestion that there was
lack of vigilance on the part of anti-Communists
Mr. Ashe. That is true.
Mr. Doyle. As to the real hazard. Well, now, what could folks do
who want to smoke out subversive people in subversive programs to
be more vigilant ? What from a practical viewpoint might be done?
Mr. Ashe. Well, my criticism was leveled in a period in 1934. I
certainly don't think it holds true today so far as the motion-picture
industry is concerned. I do think that too many people in this coun-
try are asleep at the switch. Too many people do not know what
communism is. They haven't even got a working knowledge of it.
They couldn't define it. They don't know what its objectives are, and
from this vague ignorance they are in no position to cope with it.
After all, a doctor that knows nothing about a certain disease, I am
fearful he wouldn't know much about isolating it.
Mr. Doyle. Have you any program of education to recommend?
Mr. Ashe. Not offhand ; no ; except that I feel that there is still gen-
erally an apathetic attitude in this country toward communism. I
think that its numerical strength misleads people. I think that at the
present time it is understood to have 40,000 members.
Mr. Doyle. How do you explain the large attendance in this hear-
ing room today
Mr. Ashe. This is a
Mr. Doyle. If there is apathy on the part of the public ?
Mr. Ashe. I am speaking of the public generally. I think that if
we could make a poll here you would find approximately two-thirds of
these people are members of or sympathizers of the Communist Party,
and you have here a practical demonstration of a united front. This,
incidentally, is a very clear evidence of apathy. I don't know what
the numerical membership of the Communist Party here is now, or
of its sympathizers, but I think it is significant that out of this small
1452 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
membership they can have half to two-thirds of the people in this
room, and the rest of the city of Los Angeles is indifferent. Maybe a
few representatives of organizations are here, but
Mr. Doyle. I noticed you specified that there was a program of
infiltration into unions, and you said "even to the extent of paying
dues; we placed members in trade-unions and paid their dues."
Would you say to us that it would be your opinion that that sort of
a program is still going on ?
Mr. Ashe. I don't think it is necessary now. Very few people
are unemployed. I imagine the average Communist is making a
pretty fair livelihood and is able to pay his own way in his trade-
unions, and I imagine the party would expect him to. In those days
he could not. He did not have the money. The dues, the initiation
fees in some of the A. F. of L. unions were $20, $30, $50, and $100.
This is a considerable sum of money for an unemployed worker to
raise to get into a union, especially if he is not going to work in the
trade.
Mr. Doyle. Our distinguished counsel asked you about the ques-
tion of force and violence. I am glad he did. I want you to help
me, if you can, to get your opinion on two Federal statutes that are
in existence. I am not sure that you are familiar with them. I refer
to Public Law 831 of the Eighty-first Congress. We know it as the
Subversive Activities Control Act; and in that, in section 2, our
declaration of congressional policy states this :
As a result of evidence adduced before various committees of the Senate
and the House of Representatives, the Congress hereby finds that there exists
a world Communist movement which, in its origin, its development, and its
present practice is a world-wide revolutionary movement whose purpose is
by treachery, deceit, sabotage, terrorism, and any other means deemed neces-
sary to establish a Communist totalitarian dictatorship in the countries through-
out the world through the medium of a world-wide Communist organization.
In your judgment was that declaration by Congress in 1950 an
accurate appraisement of the condition at that time?
Mr. Ashe. I think it is a very restrained statement.
Mr. Doyle. What do you mean by "restrained"?
Mr. Ashe. Well, I think I would have stated it a little more force-
fully.
Mr. Doyle. "What would you have said ?
Mr. Ashe. I wouldn't want to formulate it offhand. I mean
Mr. Doyle. You are not criticizing Congress, are you?
Mr. Ashe. I am not criticizing Congress. I think it is a restrained,
judicial statement of fact. I happen to be sort of a person that can
very easily blow his top, and if I didn't have microphones here I
would probably use a little more forceful language to characterize the
Communist international conspiracy. That is the only point I wish
to make.
Mr. Doyle. Well, now, that leads me to this question: Under the
statute under which this committee here today is functioning, there is
this declaration :
The Committee on Un-American Activities as a whole, or by subcommittee, is
authorized to make from time to time investigations : (1) The extent, character,
and objectives of un-American propaganda in the United States ; (2) the diffusion
within the United States of subversive and un-American propaganda that is in-
stigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks the principles
of the form of government as guaranteed by the Constitution ; and, lastly, all
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1453
other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in making any neces-
sary remedial legislation.
Now I direct your attention especially to the portion of this statute
which assigns us to investigate subversive or "un-American propa-
ganda originating in foreign countries. You mentioned that very
briefly this morning in your testimony. Am I to understand you that
is your considered opinion and that even today there is subversive
propaganda emanating from Soviet Russia designed to definitely at-
tack, if needs be, and eventually by force our constitutional form of
government ?
Mr. Ashe. I feel so. I couldn't document it for you at the moment
because I didn't come prepared for that. This gets back again to the
point that I make, that the People's World, the Daily Worker, New
Masses should be barred from the mails. They are carriers of the
Communist International line from day to day, following all its
twists and all its turns and informing the comrades what to think
from one day to the next. The poor devils don't know unless they
read.
Mr. Doyle. You realize this, Mr. Ashe, that I noticed a few minutes
ago when you said that there was confusion, you said that you recom-
mended the legislating of the Communist Party underground 6 feet;
they were already underground less than that. I wonder to what
extent you feel, though, or don't you recognize that it is absolutely
necessary that not only this committee, and I am especially referring
to this committee — that this committee representing the United States
Congress take into cognizance at all times the fact that we must do
nothing directly or indirectly that infringes on any constitutional
rights of any American citizen.
You see what I am getting at ?
Mr. Ashe. I see what you are getting at, and I think
Mr. Doyle. In other words, isn't it also important that at all times
a congressional committee stand in the presence of the constitutional
right of any citizen ?
Mr. Ashe. I agree with you, and I am afraid I am going to have
to make an observation here to make my point clear.
Mr. Doyle. I want you to, whatever your observation is.
Mr. Ashe. The Communist Party is a conspiratorial organization.
It is an alien organization. The Communist Party has as one of its
basic tenets that there cannot be a revolutionary theory without revo-
lutionary action.
Mr. Doyle. What do you mean by revolutionary action?
Mr. Ashe. The violent ultimate overthrow of this country and any
other country that stands in their way, and this has been taught for
years and years and years in the Communist Party, and every Com-
munist in this room knows it.
Mr. Doyle. You mean by that
Mr. Ashe. I mean that this is the thing that distinguishes the
Communist Party from every other party in this country; that it
isn't a question of stopping their freedom of thought, it is not a ques-
tion of stopping their freedom of speech or freedom of press as such.
The thing is that no Communist is a theorist unless he is also an acti-
vist, and that he cannot be a good Communist unless he is ready to
put his revolutionary theory to the test on the barricades, and the Com-
munists know this. Now, then, are you going to allow the Commu-
1454 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
nist Party to agitate right up to the day we are on the barricades,
up to the day when they, themselves, have decided that the day has
come where they have a fighting chance ? I say "No."
Mr. Doyle. Well, 'then, are you familiar with the decision by the
United States Supreme Court with reference to the Smith Act ?
Mr. Ashe. I believe I am. Unfortunately, I don't share the views
of the Supreme Court. I am unhappy to say that.
Mr. Doyle. Well, now, in what way do you not, on the question of
the Communists?
Mr. Ashe. I think that the Supreme Court is demonstrating in this
country the difficulty of a democratic Nation to protect itself from
being overthrown. I think that we are going to have to do some very
serious thinking about the legalism by which the Communist Party
manages to be — manages to keep itself from being brought to heel.
The whole history of all of the other countries that have gone behind
the iron curtain is a history of vacillation, of evasion, of hesitation, of
fear, of talking about democratic rights until the whole country has
lost all of its democratic rights and the Communist Party is in the
saddle.
Mr. Doyle. Then you would agree with the Supreme Court, though,
in its recent decision on at least one point where it declares that, in
substance and effect, it wasn't necessary for there to be preact of vio-
lence; that the encouragement of a preact of violence was sufficient?
Mr. Ashe. I think it had — I may be wrong. I think there was
a question of real and present danger, wasn't there?
Mr. Doyle. All right.
Mr. Ashe. Well, I say that time is here now.
Mr. Doyle. Then would you answer my question by saying that the
real and present danger consists of a person orally advocating the
forceful overthrow, or should the person have to do some overt act.
Mr. Ashe. The advocacy orally is a part and parcel of, although it
may precede and probably will precede, the actual overt act. In other
words, you can't have revolution unless revolution is discussed and
unless tactics and strategy are worked out. This requires talking and
it requires discussion.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask you one more question, Mr. Ashe, or two ? In
my study of the statutes under which this committee functions, I per-
haps went an additional step to try to understand the meaning of the
word "subversive" in our statute which I read to you, and in studying
Mr. Webster's dictionary I found that the term "subvert" means —
to overthrow ; to overturn ; to ruin utterly ; to undermine the morals, allegiance,
or faith of; to corrupt.
Now, in view of that defining of the word "subvert" by Webster
and Webster's Dictionary, do I understand that your appraisal of the
Communist Party is that it sounds in time to subvert — in other words,
that it is definitely the program to try to subvert our Nation?
Mr. Ashe. Absolutely, at all times.
Mr. Doyle. One more question. We had testimony before this com-
mittee in Washington several months ago from a former FBI agent
who had been assigned to the duty of studying Communist cells in
certain parts of our Nation, and he testified before us in substance
that in his presence and to his knowledge — he had the places in mind
and the occasions in mind — he heard conversation and discussion by
members of the Communist cells there as to ways and means in which
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1455
they could gather arms and ammunition, if needs be, to use in this
revolution against our form of government.
Now, do I understand you that the Communist Party, as you know
it here in California, the leadership would go to that extent, to be
interested in gathering arms and ammunition ?
Mr. Ashe. I think so.
Mr. Doyle. You do think so ?
Mr. Ashe. I know so.
Mr. Doyle. Well, did you ever hear it discussed ?
Mr. Ashe. In 1934-35 when I was in the downtown section, I had
been asked on numerous occasions by Nat Praeger, the then chairman
of the disciplinary committee, to supply personable women to dis-
tribute a subversive paper called the Shipmates' Voice on board battle-
ships, cruisers, and other United States naval boats anchored off Long
Beach and San Pedro. This Shipmates' Voice was clearly an instru-
ment by which the Communist Party hoped to recruit sailors into the
Communist Party. At a later date I know that the Communist Party
used good-looking women as decoys to entertain sailors with a view to
recruiting them. I don't know what the results were, because that was
not within my province. I do know it was going on, because I was
asked to supply some of these girls, and I know on one occasion I put
my foot down and refused to allow some 16-year-old YCLers to be
put to this purpose.
At the same time the Communist Party was putting out a sub-
versive, underground paper aimed at the soldiers who were in the
Armed Forces, trying to subvert them, trying to sew tlie seeds of dis-
affection in their minds, exploiting every petty grievance that could
be found. And, of course, you can always find them in the Armed
Forces. They were following the same pattern here as they were in
the Navy.
At another period — and I can't recall the exact time — we were asked
to go through our ranks very carefully and see what men could be
persuaded to, or ordered to go into the National Guard, the California
National Guard, and some of them went in.
Mr. Doyle. Went in for some purpose ?
Mr. Ashe. Well, I don't think they went in to play poker. They
went in for the precise purpose of getting their hands on guns, getting
into positions of leadership, even if it was only that of a noncommis-
sioned officer, and awaiting the time when they could, with some de-
gree of success, whether it was 10 or 20 years, play the role that is al-
lotted to them, namely to turn the Armed Forces against the so-called
capitalist state and utilize it for the Communist Party, following the
identical pattern, incidentally, that was used in the Soviet Union
when power was seized from the Kerensky government.
Mr. Doyle. My final question is this, Mr. Ashe. I take it there was
a time when you not only had little use, but no use or respect, for the
functioning of the Un-American Activities Committee of the United
States Congress. I take it by your testimony here this morning that
you have changed that opinion.
Mr. Ashe. I would like to say
Mr. Doyle. What caused you to ?
Mr. Ashe. What caused me to change ?
Mr. Doyle. Yes.
1456 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Ashe. I think I made that fairly clear this morning, that I
couldn't go along with the inhuman, brutal attitude of the [Communist
Party] leadership, which I was finally obliged to realize was not purely
a bad local leadership but was a reflection of the leadership clear up to
the top.
Mr. Doyle. 1 remember that testimony and I will interrupt you
because I don't mean for you to repeat it. It was very helpful. Have
you any suggestion for the functioning of this committee? Is there
any field of endeavor that we should enter? Are we functioning, in
your judgment, in a helpful, constructive manner or is there something
we should add to our functioning ?
Mr. Ashe. No. I think you are doing a very excellent job. I
might add that when I borrowed this copy of the 1938 Report of the
House Un-American Activities Committee from Charlie Daggett,
which was in 1939, after I had ceased to be an organizational member
of the party, that although that committee made many mistakes some
of the testimony in there helped me to resolve my remaining idea-
logical doubts and helped to set me on the right road to recovering
my freedom and completely disassociating myself from the Commu-
nist Party.
Mr. Doyle. There is one other question I wish to ask you. I no-
ticed this morning that on two occasions at least in one way or
another you volunteered the statement even directing your statement
to people possibly who might be in this room, that in your opinion
there were many Communists that were seeking a way out
Mr. AsnE. That's correct.
Mr. Doyle. Of membership in the Communist Party. Why did
you mention that on two occasions ? You emphasized it.
Mr. Ashe. Because I went through a very difficult period myself.
I feel personally responsible for the fact that some of these people
that are in this room are still in the party. I regret that I have to
expose them but the responsibility is theirs. They are still in, so far
as I know. I would like to see them get out. I don't think they
belong in there. I think they have been badly misled. _ I think if
they had the benefit of associating, as long as I did, with the top
leadership of the party, I think they would realize that they are asso-
ciating with a bunch of rascals and skunks. That is my considered
judgment.
I know one man whose eye I caught here earlier this morning isa
person in the Communist Party. I am satisfied just from looking in
his eyes he wants to get out, and get out very badly. I hope he will.
Mr. Doyle. You realize, don't you, that this committee has, over
radio, through our counsel and through our distinguished chairman,
offered on many occasions to cooperate with those who desire to co-
operate with the committee, and help them in every way — not to harm
them but to help them, as they got out or desired to get out of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Ashe. I understand that. But what my purpose was this
morning was to try to lay an escape route for these people who have
been trapped in the party and who are going through a very trying
psychological period when they can't disassociate themselves. They
are completely surrounded. They don't know what to do, they can't
think for themselves; they have surrendered the right to think and
they don't know where to start again.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1457
I am merely trying to tell them how to do it, in the hope that they,
too, will come forward within a year or two after they have been able
to make their adjustments and make their contributions. I know I
had a very trying period before I was completely free.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. That's all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. It will give me pleasure to recognize the appearance in
the committee room of a distinguished State senator from Los Angeles
County, Mr. Jack Tenney.
Mr. Jackson, do you have some questions ?
Mr. Jackson. I should like to recognize, Mr. Chairman, the presence
in the committee room of our distinguished Lieutenant Governor of
the State of California, Goodwin J. Knight, and also Senator Nelson
Dilworth, who has also been associated with the activities of the State
un-American activities committee in Sacramento.
Mr. Wood. It is a pleasure to have you gentlemen here, I am sure.
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Ashe, during the course of your testimony you
mentioned a man by the name of Will Geer, who has previously ap-
peared before this committee. You were unable to state as a certainty
whether or not the man who appeared was the same individual whom
you had known during your period of time in the party.
Mr. Ashe. No; I couldn't state with certainty that the man who
appeared a year or so ago before your committee was the man I knew
in 1934.
Mr. Jackson. Would you be able to give the committee a physical
description of the individual who was known to you as Will Geer?
Mr. Ashe. I am not too sure. When I knew him he was probably
about my age, which would make him about, say, 32 to 34, maybe a
little younger. Tall, lanky, loose-boned person. In those days he was
quite thin — I don't think he was eating too well — rather an engaging
personality, I would say. Under purely social conditions, a person
that one would enjoy visiting with, shooting the breeze.
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Geer made a very interesting witness before the
committee. He didn't say much but he was extremely interesting.
Mr. Ashe. I understand.
Mr. Jackson. It has also been testified, or it has been stated in tes-
timony taken before the committee that the Communist Party has
been so organized in this country as to provide for successive echelons
of command, to take care of such situations as the FBI round-up in
New York and in San Francisco. Out of your personal knowledge of
the operations of the Communist Party would you care to comment
on what provisions have been made against possible removal of effec-
tive leadership at the district or State levels?
Mr. Ashe). I wouldn't be able to speak now. In '34 or '35, '36, I
had some knowledge of this procedure. In fact, my then wife, I
believe, was one of those in charge of what they called "reserve com-
mittee." I know that there was at all times, especially during periods
when the party was semi-legal, or semi-illegal, if you please, there
was always provision made so that if the functioning bureau or lead-
ership of the party in any area was taken that there were others im-
mediately to rise to the surface.
I think on this point I would like to make an observation that
somebody somewhere has made the statement that in the event the
party was rounded up that there would be 10 percent, or something
1458 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
like that, thrown in jail and the other 90 percent, presumably, would
not. I think this would be a serious mistake, because the Communist
Party has, as one of its basic teachings, that every Communist must
be a leader. Every Communist is a potential leader, regardless of
whether he is a rank and file in his unit, or what he is. He is taught
at all times to assume leadership and how to assume leadership. He
is taught to, if necessary, work on his own initiative. I know that
when I was in we were taught a considerable amount of underground
woi'k, how to break the large units up into small units, how to convey
messages, and so on and so forth. I don't think it is safe to assume
that because you get a certain group of recognized leaders and put
them in jail, and possibly convict them, that you have even scratched
the surface as far as breaking up the party is concerned. Quite the
contrary, you have merely brought out a new group of possibly
younger and more competent leaders who have awaited this oppor-
tunity to demonstrate their ability for the Communist Party.
Mr. Jackson. During the course of your testimony you also set
forth the circumstances of a meeting you attended on which occasion
you waited on a very prominent street corner for several hours. You
said at that time the only person who was likely to have known the
meeting place, or who did know it, was Ked Hynes. Would you
further identify Mr. Hynes so there will be no misunderstanding.
Mr. Ashe. Mr. Hynes was — I believe he had the rank of lieutenant
in the Los Angeles Police Department, was in charge of what they
call the antisubversive detail, better known as the Red squad. I am
quite sure at that time that he was fully cognizant of everything that
went on in the Communist Party ; in fact I even know his source of
information. I didn't know it then.
Mr. Jackson. His presence is sadly missed today, I might say, Mr.
Ashe. Does a Communist Party member bear any allegiance to the
United States of America or any of its institutions ?
Mr. Ashe. None whatever.
Mr. Jackson. Can a Communist be objective in his teachings?
Mr. Ashe. No.
Mr. Jackson. Can a Communist labor leader have any obligation
to the people he is presumed to represent in his negotiations?
Mr. Ashe. No. Except incidentally, if it serves his purpose, for
which he is really there, namely to carry out the program of the Com-
munist Party, whatever that may happen to be at the moment.
Mr. Jackson. You said in answer to a question directed to you by
Mr. Doyle, that probably the argument you used in recruiting indi-
viduals into the party was that the Communist Party stood for the
best interests of the working people. That statement, of course, is
no longer true in your own mind ?
Mr. Ashe. It wasn't true then.
Mr. Jackson. I stand corrected. How long, in your opinion, Mr.
Ashe, would free speech exist in this country if the Communist revolu-
tion came to pass?
Mr. Ashe. Just long enough to organize a large force of uniformed
goons.
Mr. Jackson. How long would freedom of assemblage exist under
a Communist regime?
Mr. Ashe. About the same time.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1459
Mr. Jackson. You mean less time that it would take to eradicate
the House Committee on Un-American Activities ?
Mr. Ashe. I would say so.
Mr. Jackson. I suppose the same thing goes for freedom of religion
and all the other freedoms that we know in our Bill of Rights and
Constitution ?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Jackson. How much actual regard do members of the Com-
munist Party hold for the Bill of Rights, with particular reference
to the fifth amendment?
Mr. Ashe. Well, I understand at the moment that they are very
much attached to the first and fifth amendments. I am not sure
whether they know anything about the rest of the Constitution or not.
Mr. Jackson. I would question at times whether they know any-
thing about the first and fifth Amendments without the advice of
counsel.
Mr. Ashe. I didn't say they knew anything; I said they were at-
tached to it.
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Ashe, in conclusion I want to thank you for your
appearance here today. I think that every word of your statement
has gone to the heart of this question. It would be my hope that every
citizen of this country would have an opportunity to read what you
have had to say. I congratulate you on it. I don't think communism
has anything to do with a political party. It is an international con-
spiracy and I think- you are entirely right when you say it should be
outlawed lock, stock, and barrel.
I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter of Michigan.
I would like to ask the guards, if there is another demonstration in
this hearing room during the progress of these hearings, to immedi-
ately eject whoever is guilty of it.
Proceed.
Mr. Potter. Mr. Ashe, was any effort made to recruit you back into
the party after you disassociated yourself from the party ?
Mr. Ashe. Directly, no. For a long time I don't think that the
leadership of the Communist Party knew what had happened, because
when I came back to town after being on a tour for the Spanish refu-
gee committee as an organizer, I found that my old branch, the forty-
fourth Assembly District branch, had been reorganized and broken
down into small units. Apparently each of the unit organizers as-
sumed that I was in some other unit, which was precisely what I
wanted them to think, and I didn't disabuse them.
However, I will say this, that along about 1946, after the war was
over, I received a communication from the one-time organizer of the
Communist Party here in Los Angeles County, a man by the name of
Jack Moore, whom I had personally known at one time. Jack wrote
a letter to my home, told me that he was back from service overseas,
had had a lot to think about, had changed his mind about a lot of
things and indicated he was interested in writing. He knew that I was
professionally engaged in writing, indicated that I might be helpful to
him professionally and indicated that he would like to talk things
over, possibly resolve some of his own doubts. So I thought, well, I
went through the mill, maybe this guy is going through the mill, so I
81595 — 51— pt. 4 4
1460 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
better see him. I made an appointment with him and met him at Man-
ning's Cafe on Third Street.
We talked around a while about literature. He wanted to write
a book. I couldn't see much possibility in it but at any rate he seemed
to be interested in writing a book. I gave him such encouragement
as I could and then pretty soon he came around to the question of how
1 felt about communism, so I proceeded to tell him.
At this point I suddenly realized that Jack Moore had not sought
me out with a view to getting any help, any guidance in resolving his
problem, but rather quite obviously he had been sent by the party
to interview me and to find out where I really stood. In other words,
was I antiparty or was I merely out of the party. There is con-
siderable difference. In other words, the party apparently was hope-
ful that I had been sufficiently neutralized that I would not harm the
party. I know that we got onto the question of the possibility of an-
other war and he wanted to know where I stood and indicated that
he had grave doubts — remember he was an officer in the United States
Army attached to a tank-destroyer battalion, I believe second lieu-
tenant. He said that he would have grave doubts as to whether he
would fight for this country in the event of another war. I told him
that there was no doubt in my mind where my loyalty would stand.
At one point we reached the point where we — we both had pretty
good voices and we reached the point where we were shouting at
each other in Manning's Cafe. And that is the last time I have
seen Mr. Moore.
I am quite sure that he immediately reported to the county office,
where his wife at that time was some kind of functionary. I learned
that later.
Mr. Potter. Mr. Ashe, at any time did the party functionaries ever
get together and discuss that "come the revolution" they would be the
men in control ?
Mr. Ashe. Yes ; there was a good bit of talk like that, but not too
much. Some of it was more or less in jest. I mean they would kid
about where they were going to live, but it was half kidding and half
serious. I mean these guys weren't living too well and I suppose some
of these residences out in Hollywood, and so forth, did appeal to
them, and the idea of having three good meals a day. I mean there
was a certain amount of that in a semihumorous vein, although, as
I say, they have no real sense of humor.
Mr. Potter. Did your organization, your county organization, re-
ceive many of the high functionaries from either the State central
committee or the National central committee of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Ashe. Receive many?
Mr. Potter. Yes. Did they come out and visit you or lecture to
you, and so forth?
Mr. Ashe. Oh, yes. Sam Darcy, who was State organizer, came
down here periodically to Los Angeles to meet with the leadership
and frequently stayed at the home of Dr. I. S. Decker. I have at-
tended several meetings at Dr. Decker's home where Sam Darcy was
present.
We discussed immediate policies of the party, recruiting, how to
infiltrate organizations, work in the united front, and other practical
day-to-day problems. There have been national figures come out..
COMMUNISM EST MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1461
Browder was out here in 1936 on a speaking tour, Kobert Minor was
here in 1934. I toured the State with Robert Minor. A man by the
name of Ford, who was running for vice president in 1936, was out
here and spoke at a large rally. They came through periodically and
exerted great influence on the local party.
Mr. Potter. When they would come out here would they meet with
the leaders or would a mass meeting be held for them to speak?
Mr. Ashe. Both. If they were competent public speakers they
would usually speak at a large mass meeting or rally, and then in
addition would meet with the party functionaries, the county leader-
ship, and straighten out the county leadership on any points of policy
that the county leadership was unclear on, or which it was going
wrong on.
Mr. Potter. When a person has been recruited into the party I as-
sume there is a period of training or indoctrination that he must go
through. I believe you stated that in your case you rebelled against
the series of training experiences that you had.
Mr. Ashe. I rebelled at going through a beginners' class twice.
There was a beginners class.
This beginners' class would consist of all of the new members who
had been recruited within the last few weeks. Sometimes a member
would go into a unit before he had been in the beginner's class, simply
because there was not a beginner's class in process at that time. But
as soon as one was set up, when there were enough recruits one would
be set up, a teacher would be assigned and then they would go to the
beginner's class.
Mr. Potter. I have here a photostat of a publication called the
Communist Party, A Manual Of Organization, which was published
in July of 1935. This was written by a J. Peters, a gentleman I am
sure you are familiar with.
Mr. Ashe. That's right.
Mr. Potter. As I understand, the information has been given our
committee that this in many cases, this manual on organization has
been used as a Communist Party bible in many sections, particularly
with new members, to outline the party objectives. I would like to
just quote a paragraph from the role and aim of the Communist Party
as cited in their own manual, and I would like to have your comment
to see if that paragraph I have cited was carried through into the
organization as you were f amili'ar with it, and I quote now : x
As the leader and organizer of the proletariat the Communist Party of the
United States of America leads the working class in a fight for the revolutionary
overthrow of capitalism, for the establishment of the dictatorship of the prole-
tariat, for the establishment of a socialistic soviet republic in the United States,
for the complete abolition of classes, for the establishment of socialism, the first
stage of a classless, Communist society.
Now, the role and aim as outlined in that short paragraph, would
you say that was consistent with the Communist Party as you knew it ?
Mr. Ashe. Definitely.
Mr. Potter. In line with your statement that the Communist Party
is not a political party but an international conspiracy, I think it might
be well, also, to cite from an oath that was taken by 2,000 members of
the party, new members to the party, which was given to them by
J See appendix, printed in a separate volume for complete text of this document.
1462 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Browder. This was in New York in 1935. I would just like to read
one sentence, a very salient sentence, from this oath.
It says :
I pledge myself to rally the masses to defend the Soviet Union, the land of
victorious socialism.
Now, I don't know whether every new member of the Communist
Party takes this oath or not, but I am anxious to receive your advice
as to whether a member of the Communist Party is pledged to defend
the Soviet Union irrespective of the position the Soviet Union might
be in.
Mr. Ashe. That's correct. That has always been the position of the
Communist Party, so far as I know, within my experience, without
exception.
Mr. Potter. In other words, if the Soviet Union should attack the
United States a member of the Communist Party would be pledged
to defend the Soviet Union rather than their own country?
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Jackson. One question.
The people who took this oath, of course, are the same people who
profess so vigorously against the signing of loyalty oaths on the part
of anyone else.
Mr. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Potter. Mr. Ashe, I wish to join my colleagues in thanking
you for the forthright and wonderful statements that you have made.
The American people will be proud of your testimony.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Ashe, I would like to join with the other members
of the committee in expressing to you the deep appreciation which the
committee feels for the courageous and forthright manner in which
you have given us the benefit of your experience and your observ-
ations, suggestions and advice concerning this investigation and the
current menace of communism to the American people and this Gov-
ernment. I feel that your evidence has been very helpful to the com-
mittee and should be of benefit and interest to the American people.
Mr. Ashe. Thank you.
Mr. Wood. If there are no further questions, Mr. Counsel, is there
any reason why this witness should not be excused?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir, there is not,
Mr. Wood. It is so ordered.
Who do you have next?
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Mildred Ashe.
Mr. Wood. Is Mrs. Mildred Ashe in the courtroom?
Mrs. Ashe, will you hold up your hand and be sworn. Do you sol-
emnly swear the evidence you give this subcommittee shall be the
truth", the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. Ashe. I do.
Mr. Wood. Will you proceed, counsel.
TESTIMONY OF MILDRED ASHE
Mr. Tavenner. You are Mrs. Mildred Ashe?
Mrs. Ashe. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. You were formerly the wife of Mr. Harold Ashe?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1463
Mr. Tavenner. When were you and Mr. Ashe married ?
Mrs. Ashe. In September, 1927.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now divorced ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, we are.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you obtain your divorce?
Mrs. Ashe. In November of 1936.
(At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing
room.)
Mr. Tavenner. During the period of your marriage were you at any
time a member of the Communist Party?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, I was.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee the time and circum-
stances under which you became a member of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, I, too, was a member of the Socialist Party and
Oleta O'Connor— —
Mr. Tavenner. Will you please raise your voice a little bit.
Mrs. Ashe. Suppose I move in a little bit.
Mr. Tavenner. I wish you would spell the proper names, please.
Mrs. Ashe. Okay. Oleta O'Connor came down to Commonwealth
House on a speaking tour as a member of the Socialist Party and we
had a lot of what Mr. Ashe calls rump sessions. During that period
we decided, all of us, that we would go into the Communist Party.
Mr. Ashe joined about 3 months before I did. I think I joined about
the end, that is the last of December of 1933.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, is Oleta O'Connor the same person as Oleta
O'Connor Yates ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes. At that time she was not married. That's her
unmarried name.
Mr. Tavenner. Was your husband a member of the Communist
Party at the time that you joined?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; he was.
Mr. Tavenner. How long had he been a member, to your
knowledge ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, I didn't know that he was a member. He was a
member a few months before I knew it. I would say probably 2 or
3 months.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with a person by the
name of Millicent Hayes ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes. I was Millicent Hayes. That was my party
name.
Mr. Tavenner. Why were you given the name of Millicent Hayes ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, because during that period it was customary for
new recruits to use a name other than his own name. It was cus-
tomary in the party. Very rarely did anyone join under their own
name.
Mr. Tavenner. To what unit or cell of the party were you assigned ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well. I wasn't assigned to anything for several months
because of Mr. Ashe's connection with the Socialist Party as State
secretary and so forth. We were all more or less, shall I say, kept
underground.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you, during that period, attend Communist
Party meetings?
Mrs. Ashe. Not open meetings ; no.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend closed meetings ?
1464 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mrs. Ashe. Yes. That is, there were meetings with the top func-
tionaries of the Los Angeles section. Mr. Manoff, Lawrence Ross,
and a young man by the name of Jimmy Allen, who I believe at that
time was agit-prop
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee what is meant by the
term "agit-prop"?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, agit-prop was an abbreviation for "agitaion and
propaganda." In other words, later it became a little more anglicized
they called him educational director. At that time they were known
as agit-props.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever serve in the capacity of agit-prop?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, I am quite sure I did.
Mr. Tavenner. For how long a period of time ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, that would be a little difficult to say, because I
was in a number of units over a period of time, and I served in almost
every capacity at one time or another. This was 18 years ago so it is-
a little hard to remember what unit.
Mr. Tavenner. Without going into detail will you state at the
present time the exact titles of the positions that you held while a
member of the Communist Party?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, I was a unit organizer, dues secretary, an agit-
prop, I served on the county central committee, I served on finance
committees which were, incidentally, made up of sympathizers of the
party rather than party members, and also the reserve committee.
Mr. Tavenner. I will ask you more about the reserve committee
later. Did you also serve as a member of a secret committee of any
character?
Mrs. Ashe. The reserve committee was a secret committee.
Mr. Tavenner. Now I would like for you to tell the committee
where you first met with other Communists in Communist Party
meetings.
Mrs. Ashe. You mean a street unit, perhaps?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mrs. Ashe. Well, the first street unit I attended was some place on
Lemon Grove Avenue. I don't know the address.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the name of the person in whose home
the meeting was held ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes. Eose Elfman's home.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name?
Mrs. Ashe. I believe it was E-1-f-m-a-n, or double n, I don't know.
I'm not sure about that.
Mr. Tavenner. Was she known to you to be a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, she was a member of the unit.
Mr. Tavenner. In what other homes did you meet, that is engaged
in Communist Party meetings?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes. Well, I don't know how it is now, but in those
days we met at a different home each week. And I would meet, well,
for instance, Mr. and Mrs. Beaman x were members of a unit to which
I belonged. I don't know whether it is the same unit or another unit.
I met in their home.
Mr. Tavenner. I did not understand the last name.
Mrs. Ashe. Beaman, B-e-a-m-a-n.1
1 Individual named by Harold J. Ashe, Morton Beeman.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1465
Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall the names of other persons in whose
home you met ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, I can't. I'm sorry, because after we left Common-
wealth House, for some reason, our house seemed to be the meeting
place and so many unit meetings were held there. It is a little hard
to remember.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, you mentioned Commonwealth House. What
was the significance of your living in Commonwealth House ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, during the period that we were identified with
the Socialist Party, the Socialist Party took a big home in Hollywood
at Sunset and Vine — 1453 is the address — and that was the Socialists'
headquarters. It was a three-story house that at one time had been a
mansion, the old Martin estate, and we were there as caretakers and
made our home in the Socialist Party headquarters at that time. .Then
subsequently, when we transferred allegiance to the Communist Party,
the Communist Party took over Commonwealth House. However, I
do not remember any unit meetings at Commonwealth House because
it was a rule of the party that no party meetings should be held because
this was a house that housed all of the front organizations, such as
the John Reed Club, the ILD, the 1WO
Mr. Tavenner. Now, just a moment. Will you give us the names
rather than the initials of those organizations.
Mrs. Ashe. O. K. The John Reed Club, which was a club made
up of artists and writers and so forth, of Hollywood, mostly. The ILD
was the International Labor Defense.
Mr. Tavenner. International Labor Defense?
Mrs. Ashe. I believe that's right.
Mr. Tavenner. That's right.
Mrs. Ashe. I am so used to just the initials. IWO is the Interna-
tionl Workers' Order, which was an insurance kind of thing. It also
housed the Partisan, which was a magazine published by the John
Reed Club and various others. Oh, Schuler. This was a children's
organization. Oh, and the YCL also met there.
Mr. Tavenner. YCL ; did you say ?
Mrs. Ashe. Oh, excuse me. The Young Communist League.
Mr. Tavenner. Young Communist League ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell us a little more about the functioning
of the John Reed Club. That is, when they began to function in Los
Angeles.
Mrs. Ashe. No ; I don't know the history of the John Reed Club. 1
never was a member of the club, and I never was assigned to it as a
party member.
(At this time Representative Donald L. Jackson entered the hearing
room. )
Mr. Tavenner. Then you state that after leaving Commonwealth
House many of the meetings were held in your home?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; that's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Did that unit or cell have a name which met in your
home and which you attended ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, no ; because there were various units. We weren't
in one unit very long. I mean, we were transferred around a great
1466 COMMUNISM IN MOTION -PICTURE INDUSTRY
deal. I mean, if they needed an organizer, for instance, we moved in
and acted as organizer. If they needed an agitprop, we moved in.
So, we sort of pinch-hit from one unit to another.
Mr. Tavenner. Your former husband has described the organiza-
tion of two clubs or units known as professional clubs.
Mrs. Ashe. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Z-100 and Z-150?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you identified with either or both of those
clubs?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; I helped organize the Z-100, and I remember when
Z-150 was organized as a split from the original professional unit,
but I am not sure which one I remained with.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee the names of those
who were members of the professional club whom you can now recall ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, Lionel Stander for a short time was in the Z-100.
His wife Lucy was recruited into B-100. Jeff Kibre was a member.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell that last name, please ?
Mrs. Ashe. K-i-b-r-e. And his wife Virginia was later recruited
into the unit by Jack — John Broman, B-r-o-m-a-n. Jack Wilson was
his name. John Broman was his party name.
(At this point Representative Charles E. Potter left the room.)
Mrs. Ashe (continuing). Lou Harris and his wife Vera were in
one of the units. I don't know which one. Herb Klein and his wife.
Percy Solotoy.
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. Is Herb an abbreviation or
Mrs. Ashe. I don't know. I never knew him as anything but Herb
Klein.
Mr. Tavenner. What further information of a descriptive nature
can you give of Mr. and Mrs. Herbert Klein? Where did they live
and what did they do ?
Mrs. Ashe. I don't know where they lived, except it was in Holly-
wood. I mean, I couldn't place the house. They were Hollywood
people.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know in what business Mr. Herbert Klein
was engaged?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, I don't know what he was in then. I understand
later he was a professor at City College.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how he may be employed now ?
Mrs. Ashe. No ; I haven't been in touch with him for many years.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell us anything about his activity while
you were associated with him in this club?
(At this point Representative Francis E. Walter left the room.)
Mr. Tavenner (continuing). Of the Communist Party?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes. Well, these units were more or less underground
units. I mean, the people couldn't be exposed. There was a lot of
work they couldn't do. For instance, they couldn't have attended a
meeting like this as a party member. They couldn't go on a picket
line. There were a lot of things they couldn't do. They were
Mr. Tavenner. Well, what was the reason for that ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, if I may use the term, they were sort of sacred
cows. I think they got a little to think they were so important that
they couldn't be regular Communist Party members. They had to be
extra special ultra.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1467
Mr. Tavenner. Well, is there anything you can tell us about the
activity of Mr. Klein while a member of this unit?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, one of the activities of that unit was the forming
of the New Music Group. It was a group to raise money. I mean,
it was — the idea was to give concerts. Mr. Klein, as I remember it,
had brought back a number of very wonderful recordings from Ger-
many, and there were concerts given at which these recordings were
played, and that sort of thing. I only attended one or two of those.
That is about as much on that as I know, but that was one of the
things that the unit was able to do. Spencer Austrian was also a
member of that group.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what his position was?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, I believe Mr. Austrian is an attorney.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you name others?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, the reason I speak of Mr. Austrian, almost every-
one I have to remember in connection with some incident or some-
thing, because they are not just names. I remember, for instance,
that one of the functions that we had was to arrange for the mechanics
of an underground. For instance, we raised money — I believe New
Music Group money went in to buy an electric mimeograph.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you about to make any further statement
regarding
Mrs. Ashe. Well, yes ; I was.
Mr. Tavenner (continuing). Mr. Austrian?
Mrs. Ashe. Because at that time anyone who bought a mimeo-
graph, or anything of that kind, had to be — it had to be registered
with the Government somehow, and I am trying to remember how
it was registered. I mean, I haven't thought of it in years.
Mr. Tavenner. Was this mimeograph machine to be used in any
underground operations of the party ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; it was to be kept sort of — you know, quiet, until
such time as it might be needed. I don't remember any other people
at the moment.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Morgan Hull ? ♦
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; I laiew Morgan.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of that group ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes; Morgan was a member, and his wife Charlotte.
I believe Morgan afterward became head of the National Newspaper
Guild.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know a person by the name of Percy
Solotoy?
Mrs. Ashe. Percy Solotoy and his wife Sonya were recruited from
the Contemporary Theatre.
Mr. Tavenner. From what ?
Mrs. Ashe. From the Contemporary Theatre group, which was
another front group.
Mr. Tavenner. Were they members of this cell or unit of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, and I think Jeff Kibre recruited them. My recol-
lection is that it was Jeff Kibre who recruited them.
Mr. Tavenner. Is there anything else that you can recall regarding
their activities ?
Mrs. Ashe. I attended a unit meeting at their home — they lived
on Kings Koad, and I did attend a meeting there, a unit meeting there,
1468 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
and Percy was very active in the Contemporary Theater work which
staged left-wing plays.
Mr. Tavenner. When you say he was "active" in the theater in this
particular theater group, do you mean to indicate that activity related
to Communist Party work of any character ?
Mrs. Ash. Well, Contemporary Theatre was a front organization
for staging left-wing plays. A number of plays were staged under
the banner of the Contemporary Theatre, and Mr. Solotoy was very
instrumental in organizing that and keeping it going.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet in Communist Party meetings with
each of the persons whose names you have given ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; I did. Did I mention Lou Harris ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes; you did. Now, in the course of your con-
nection with the Communist Party, did you have occasion to meet
Communist Party functionaries on a higher level ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes; I did, on numerous occasions. We met often
with Hanoff. Elmer Hanoff, I think his name was.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he also known as Pop Hanoff?
Mrs. Ashe. Pop Hanoff was organizer for the Los Angeles section
when we joined the party. Lawrence Ross at that time was organi-
zation secretary. Jimmy Allen, who had charge of educational work.
I also knew Sam Darcy, who was district organizer. I knew Louise
Todd very well who, at one time, was organizer here. I knew John
Leech. I knew Jim Thorne. I knew Rube Lambert. I think he
spells it R-u-b-e L-a-m-b-e-r-t. I know Oleta O'Connor. That is
all I recall at the moment.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall Paul Klein?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, yes. I had very little to do with Paul. I think
maybe Paul conducted a central council committee a time or two when
I was a delegate. Other than that, I didn't know Paul. I didn't
work under Paul at all.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you associated in any way with Pettis Perry ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, I knew Pettis Perry very well. I don't know
what his — I don't know what his official position as a functionary
was, but I did know Pettis.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him as a member of the Communist
Party?
Mrs. Ashe. Definitely.
Mr. Tavenner. He is the same person who is now under indictment
in California?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, I wouldn't know, but I would say yes. He was
a Negro comrade.
Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned Louise Todd. Now, what was your
first association with her?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, Louise came to Los Angeles to take over the
organization job, and I worked with Louise a very great deal. I
knew Louise very well, up to the time she went to Tehachapi, and even
after, because I visited her at Tehachapi, and it was Louise who as-
signed me to the reserve committee that you asked about a few mo-
ments ago. She also assigned me to act as collector for the party.
That is, collecting from people who gave regular donations who were
not Communist Party members, or, if they were, they were so under-
ground that we didn't know it.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1469
Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, tell us more about your duties as a
collector.
Mrs. Ashe. Well, my duties were — I had a list of people who con-
tributed each month, and I contacted them at a place that they desig-
nated, picked up the money, gave them a receipt always made out to
a name that would be comparable to a party name. I mean, their own
name never went on a receipt, but they received a receipt that had the
party seal on it, and I brought the money into the office.
Mr. Tavenner. When was this?
Mrs. Ashe. In 1934.
Mr. Tavenner. What territory or area did you perform those serv-
ices in ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, Los Angeles, Hollywood, a time or two I even
went down to Malibu Beach. It was southern California, — I mean,
it was the Los Angeles area.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you seek contributions from persons engaged
in the moving-picture industry?
Mrs. Ashe. There were a few ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. In receiving those donations, did the donor under-
stand the purpose for which the money was being given?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes; they understood it perfectly.
Mr. Tavenner. They understood that it was for the Communist
Party?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes; they understood that.
Mr. Tavenner. And you gave them receipts in fictitious names?
Mrs. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the names at this time of persons
in the industry — moving-picture industry?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, I can only give you a few, because my memory
isn't good on it. J. Sanders was on my list. That is Lionel Stander,
as he is known professionally.
Mr. Tavenner. How frequently did he make contributions?
Mrs. Ashe. Once a month. I know he used to complain because
he said he was a fatted cow for the party, and that was all.
Mr. Tavenner. He was what?
Mrs. Ashe. A fatted cow. He was making a lot of money.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, were these special contributions or were they
dues ?
Mrs. Ashe. No ; they were not dues. They were voluntary contri-
butions to the Communist Party for use in party work.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive donations from persons who were
not members of the party?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, at the time I was collecting from Mr. Stander
we didn't know he was a party member.
Mr. Tavenner. How is that?
Mrs. Ashe. We didn't know he was a party member at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mrs. Ashe. This was before Z-100 and Z-150 were organized.
Mr. Tavenner. It was after that that he became a member of the
Communist Party Cell Z-100?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, that's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Who else in the industry did you receive donations
from?
1470 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mrs. Ashe. I also collected from a man by the name of Bright, who,
at that time, was a writer at Paramount studios, and his partner whose
name I do not remember.
Mr. Tavenner. Any others which you can recall at the present
time?
Mrs. Ashe. I also collected from Carl Dreher, who was identified
with KKO studios, but I don't know in what capacity. It was a very
technical thing and I don't know what his position was there.
Mr. Tavenner. What was his first name?
Mrs. Ashe. Carl.
Mr. Tavenner. Carl?
Mrs. Ashe. Dreher, D-r-e-h-e-r.
Mr. Tavenner. Did each of those persons understand the purpose
for the donations?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, they did.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, are there others whose names you can now
recall who became donors?
Mrs. Ashe. I can't at the moment — oh, Joe Gollumb. I also col-
lected from Joe Gollumb, who was a writer at Paramount.
Mr. Wood. At this point the committee will take a recess for 15
minutes.
(Whereupon a 15-minute recess was here taken.)
(With all members of the subcommittee present the proceedings
were resumed.)
Mr. Wood. We will have order, please. Let the committee be in
order, and proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Ashe, were you acquainted with Betty Bennett
Gannett ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes; Betty was active here in Los Angeles — I can't
even recall the year. Maybe 1937, I would say. In 1937. She was
in the office, but I don't remember what her capacity was. At one
time she was educational director. I remember that, because I was
an educational director for my branch and went with her in educa-
tion branch — in section meetings.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Charles Daggett?
Mrs. Ashe. Charles Daggett was a member of one of these profes-
sional units, either Z-100 or Z-150. I don't know which unit he was
identified with. I believe Morgan Hull recruited Mr. Daggett.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you sit in Communist Party meetings with
Mr. Daggett?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, I did.
Mr. Tavenner. How frequently, would you say?
Mrs. Ashe. That I wouldn't be able to say. It is a long time ago.
Mr. Tavenner. Before the recess you referred to having received
certain directions or assignments from Louise Todd.
Mrs. Ashe. Yes; that's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. You also stated that you received an appointment
at her hands to what was known as the reserve committee?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes — no — yes; that's right.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, what was the reserve committee?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, the reserve committee was a very hush-hush top-
secret committee composed of three people, and the purpose of the
committee was to become so well identified with work in the State of
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1471
California that we could take over and act as the top functionaries in
this area in case the party was driven underground.
Mr. Tavenner. You were named as one of the three persons to such
a committee?
Mrs. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the date? When were you appointed
to that committee?
Mrs. Ashe. I think about 1936.
Mr. Tavenner. Who were your associates on that committee?
Mrs. Ashe. Ida Miller and Charley Young.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, did this committee ever function?
Mrs. Ashe. No, not in the way that it was supposed to. I mean,
we didn't go underground. We met frequently. In fact, this com-
mittee was so hush-hush that no one was supposed to know about it
except the people that were on the committee. Even my husband
Avas not supposed to know anything about the functioning of this
committee.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, did that committee go through a course of
training in preparation for its assignment?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes. We were trained on where mail would be re-
ceived, how addresses would be rotated
Mr. Tavenner. I doubt if the committee can hear you without the
aid of the amplifying system. I think it is all right now.
Mrs. Ashe. Ali right. I don't think it is.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us — I believe you did tell us who your
associates were. Now, will you tell us what type of training you took
in preparation for your assignment ?
Mrs. Ashe. We were trained in where to receive mail, how dues,
stamps, and so forth would be received and distributed. We were
given a code that would be used in sending messages back and forth
between various points. We were taught that code. We were given
messages to decode and we were taught to send messages in the code.
In other words, we familiarized ourselves very thoroughly with the
code that was to be used in the event it was needed.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you serve on that committee ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, I didn't serve very long. A few months. The
reason I was taken off of the committee, I was injured. I had an auto-
mobile accident which necessitated a 6-months leave of absence, and I
never again served on that committee.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you learn who succeeded you on that com-
mittee ?
Mrs. Ashe. No, I didn't. I have no idea.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have in your possession any documentary
evidence of the giving of directions or orders to you by Louise Todd ?
Mrs. Ashe. I have a communication that I carried when I made
collections. In other words, as a responsible comrade, I presented a
document to prove that I did represent the party and to make the
people who were contributing sure that their money was going to the
P^ty-
Mr. Tavenner. And you exhibited that when soliciting funds ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes. That was my passport.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have it ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, I do have it.
1472 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have it with you ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you exhibit it, please ?
Mrs. Ashe. I will be glad to [exhibiting document].
Mr. Tavenner. The letter which you have presented to the com-
mittee is on the letterhead of the Communist Party.
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, that is true.
Mr. Tavenner. The heading is "Communist Party, 224 South
Spring Street, Los Angeles, Calif." I will read the letter.
November 9, 1934.
Dear Friend : This letter introduces Comrade Mildred Ashe who is authorized
by the section committee of our party to accept your monthly pledge to our
activities. We want to thank you again for this splendid help to the party.
With comradely greetings,
Louise Todd,
Section Organizer.
And then there is a stamp over the signature,
Communist Party, District 13, Los Angeles Section, U. S. A.
May we have the use of this letter for purposes of photostating it?
We will be glad to return it to you.
Mrs. Ashe. All right. Having kept it this long I would hate to
part with it for very long.
Mr. Wood. The committee will return it to your personal custody.
Mrs. Ashe. I am very happy to loan it to the committee.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I will offer the letter in evidence and
ask that it be marked "Ashe Exhibit No. 1" — "Mildred Ashe Exhibit
No. 1."
Mr. Wood. It will be received.1
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have your Communist Party book that was
issued to you ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; I do have.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you present it, please.
Mrs. Ashe. All right [producing document] .
Mr. Tavenner. Does the book contain stamps showing the payments
of dues?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; it does. I would like to call the committee's atten-
tion, if I may, to one stamp in there, that is what is known as a
solidarity stamp.
Mr. Tavenner. Solidarity stamp ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes. This is different than the monthly dues stamp.
It was a stamp issued for assisting the underground movement in
Germany which was fighting Hitler.
Mr. Tavenner. It was a contribution to the establishment of under-
ground work in Germany, underground work of the Communist
Party?
Mrs. Ashe. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the date of that stamp or the date
when you purchased that stamp ?
Mrs. Ashe. No. It is indicated in the book.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee more about the method
used to obtain those contributions and how they were handled?
1 See appendix to be printed in separate volume for photographic reproduction.
COMMUNISM EST MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1473
Mrs. Ashe. Well, it was a regular assessment stamp, and I believe
once a month or so you bought a solidarity stamp, and I think you
paid the same amount for it that you did for your monthly stamp.
In other words, if you paid 25 cents a month, if you were unemployed,
or 10 cents a month, or whatever, then you paid the same amount for
the solidarity stamp.
Mr. Tavenner. The Communist Party book which you have handed
the committee is for 1939, membership book, and it bears No. 8218.
It shows on its face that the book was issued on February 16, 1938,
and bears the signature of William Schneiderman. He is one of the
Communists now under indictment, I believe. The book also con-
tains— it has scheduled monthly payments, dues payments for 1939,
a copy of the constitution of the Communist Party. I would like very
much to borrow this from you with the idea of photostating it and
returning it to you.
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, sir ; you may have it.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer it in evidence and ask that it be
marked "Mildred Ashe Exhibit No. 2."
Mr. Wood. It will be received for that purpose.1
Mr. Tavenner. Returning now again to your work on the secret
committee, the reserve committee, who was the leader among that
group of three who constituted that committee ?
Mrs. Ashe. Ida Miller was acting as instructor, with the under-
standing that I would be the head of the committee. When we
Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive instructions from any person other
than Ida Miller?
Mrs. Ashe. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any information of any underground
activities of the Communist Party in this area ?
Mrs. Ashe. No. No ; not underground.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you state you withdrew from the Com-
munist Party ?
Mrs. Ashe. I withdrew in 1939. I don't know the month. It
shows in the book, whenever the last stamp is. I should say about
June of 1939 was the last time I paid dues.
Mr. Tavenner. Before asking you to tell the committee the circum-
stances under which you resigned, I* would like to ask you just one
or two other questions. Were you acquainted with a person by the
name of Rose Bush ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; I was. I knew Rose.
Mr. Tavenner. Was she a member or affiliated with the Commu-
nist Party in any way ?
Mrs. Ashe. She represented herself as a member of the Communist
Party. She came to Los Angeles as a very top secret comrade who
had been in underground work in Germany and was here for the
purpose of raising money for the German underground, and I worked
with her to acquaint her with some of the people who might help
her financially and arranged a meeting at the home of Joe Gollumb on
Hillcrest Road.
Mr. Tavenner. Joe who?
1 See appendix to be printed in a separate volume for photographic reproduction.
1474 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mrs. Ashe. Joe Gollumb, G-o-l-l-u-m-b, and at that time Rose — Mr.
Gollumb did get a group of people together. I don't remember any of
their names, because none of them were familiar to me.
Mr. Tavenner. I should ask you at this point, Was Mr. Gollumb
known to you to be a member of the Communist Party?
Mrs. Ashe. No; he was not.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean by that you know that he was not a
member ?
Mrs. Ashe. No ; I mean I — to my knowledge he was not a member
of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed, please.
Mrs. Ashe. And Rose Bush made quite a lengthy speech that night.
Some of the people — well, frankly, they thought she was phony and
asked her a little about Germany ; and she said, well, that she hadn't
brought anything out of Germany, that she had to come out with
clean suitcases. In other words, she couldn't bring out any identifica-
tion at all, but she did show credentials presumably from the execu-
tive committee of the Communist International on a little white satin
ribbon.
Mr. Tavenner. What did the white satin ribbon have written on it?
Mrs. Ashe. That I do not know. I don't remember, but that was
her credential, and the reason I recall it is because when Lawrence
Ross, who at that time was the organizational secretary, found out
she had exhibited that in a public meeting, she was severely criticized
for it.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time learn anything further re-
garding the character of that identification, the white ribbon?
Mrs. Ashe. No. That is the only time I ever heard of a white rib-
bon or saw the white ribbon, but I saw the white ribbon.
Mr. Tavenner. How did Rose Bush spell her last name?
Mrs. Ashe. B-u-s-h.
Mr. Tavenner. For the benefit of the committee, may I say that the
committee's investigation at an earlier date discloses that a similar
ribbon was signed, for identification purposes, by Max Bedacht.
Were you acquainted with Robert Minor, M-i-n-o-r?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes; I knew Robert Minor very well. Mr. Ashe toured
the State of California with Mr. Minor on a speaking tour, and I
tagged along. We were out maybe 2 or 3 weeks on a speaking tour.
It was during the election campaign when Mr. Ashe was running for
secretary of state for California.
Mr. Tavenner. On the Communist Party ticket?
Mrs. Ashe. On the Communist Party ticket, And at the same
time — it was during that time that Mr. Upton Sinclair had his EPIC
movement, the End Poverty in California movement.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether or not at this
time the Communist Party dictated any change of policy with re-
gard to the support that it should give to the candidates in that par-
ticular election?
Mrs. Ashe. The decision in California of the — the executive com-
mittee in California had made the decision that the Communist Party
should support Mi". Sinclair for Governor. When Mr. Minor came
to California, he had meetings. I didn't attend the meetings, but I
heard discussions of the meetings. Mr. Sinclair's program was one
of cooperatives. He wanted to set up cooperatives in which people
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1475
would grow their own food and make their own clothes; in other
words, start eating. Mr. Minor reversed the decision of the Cali-
fornia executive committee. He was a member at that time of the
central committee, and I believe a member of the Communist Inter-
national.
He said that we should not support Mr. Sinclair, not because the
program wouldn't work, but because the program would work too
well. I know that Mr. Ashe had to change all of his approach — I
mean in his speaking — and that Mr. Minor spoke very strongly against
Mr. Sinclair.
May I venture an opinion ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mrs. Ashe. In my opinion, if Mr. Minor had stayed home and the
Communists had supported Mr. Sinclair, he would have been Gov-
ernor. That's how much difference that decision made.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have
Mrs. Ashe. May I add to that?
Mr. Tavenner. I do not understand.
Mrs. Ashe. May I add to that ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; if you would like to.
Mrs. Ashe. Subsequently the decision was reversed, but the election
was over. Then they decided they better get into the EPIC meetings
and start working.
Mr. Tavenner. When you give the initials of an organization, I
wish you would follow it by the exact title.
Mrs. Ashe. I'm sorry. End Poverty in California. I think Mr.
Sinclair would like that.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any experience with the disciplinary
committee of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes. I had occasion to be before the disciplinary com-
mittee a few times.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe the way in which the disciplinary
committee functioned and who were members of it.
Mrs. Ashe. Well, on one occasion Tashjian, Dr. Tashjian, the den-
tist, was head of the disciplinary committee; Clara and Bill Ward
were on the committee, and I believe that Nat Praeger, but I'm not
sure.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the instance that you are referring to consti-
tute that situation that developed which your husband described,
where you were required to take a beginner's course over again?
Mrs. Ashe. No. That was another time.
Mr. Tavenner. That was another time ? If it is another time, will
you tell us about it ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, this had to do with a decision that had been made
by a joint fraction meeting of the Federal writers' project and the
Federal theater project. All Communists who were working on those
projects met together in this fraction meeting at the home of two
comrades, Walter McElroy and Wilben Holther. We called him
Wilben. I think his name was William Benjamin and his mother had
contracted it to Wilben. At that time I had one of my assignments
and that was as organizer of the American Writers' Union.
81595— 51— pt. 4-
1476 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
I believe at that time I was employed in the theater project as play
reader. The head of that department, Mr. Pearlman, had had a play
produced by the theater project, and the man who was head of it, Mr.
Miller, refused to pay him royalty. He had come to the American
Writers' Union as a member and asked us to ask Mr. Miller's removal
from the Federal theater project.
The Dramatists' Guild at the same time had been asked the same
thing-, because Mr. Pearlman also belonged to the Dramatists' Guild.
The Dramatist's Guild had supported him. They had sent letters
asking for the removal of Mr. Miller. The American Writers' Union
had to follow the fraction decision of the Communist Party members
at this particular meeting and had voted not to support Mr. Pearlman.
As a result we went into the American Writers' Union, and the only
people who didn't vote to support it were the Communists, who are
supposed to support workers when they are trying to raise wages. I
voted to support Mr. Pearlman. In other words, I went against the
fraction decision because I felt
Mr. Tavenner. You deviated from the Communist Party instruc-
tions, or the Communist Party line?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes; I did. I maintained it was a mechanical decision
which Jim Thorme had forced on us, who at that time, I believe, was
the organizational Secretary and representing the executive commit-
tee on the Los Angeles section. I felt it was a mechanical decision. I
didn't feel that if we were going to support the working class that it
Avas right when a thing came up to try to raise money, to get pay for
work, that the Communists had any right to say we won't support that.
So I supported it. As a result I was called before the disciplinary
committee.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, that is an instance of Communist
Party discipline for deviation from the decisions made on a higher
level ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; that is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Who represented the theatrical group at this meet-
ing; do you recall?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, that is a little difficult. Betty Arden was there;
Mary Virginia Farmer was there; and aside from Mr. Holther and
Mr. McElroy I don't recall any other people.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you personally acquainted with Mary Vir-
ginia Farmer?
Mrs. Ashe. No ; I wasn't. I didn't know her.
Mr. Tavenner. Where was she employed at that time?
Mrs. Ashe. She was employed by the Federal theater project in
rather a high capacity. I remember that one of my objections to the
fraction meeting was that this woman presumably was never to be
exposed as a Communist Party member, so they bring her into a frac-
tion meeting that is not only a fraction meeting of the theater project
but a joint meeting with the writers' project-
Mr. Tavenner. By fraction meeting, are you referring to a meet-
ing of representatives from different branches of the Communist
Party?
Mrs. Ashe. No. I am referring — a fraction was made up all people
who were Communist Party members who were working within any
given organization or job or whatever. In other words, Communists,
work as a bloc.
to
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1477
Mr. Tavenner. But in referring to a fraction meeting you were re-
ferring to a Communist Party meeting ?
Mrs. Ashe. A Communist Party meeting, made up of Communist
Party members in a joint fraction. In other words, the fraction from
the Federal theater project and the fraction from the Federal writers'
project were meeting jointly.
Mr. Tavenner. It was at this Communist fraction meeting that
Mary Virginia Farmer appeared and took part in the discussion?
Mrs. Ashe. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. To whom did you make your complaint about per-
mitting her appearance and disclosure at this meeting?
Mrs. Ashe. I don't believe I made a complaint. I think the com-
plaint was made against me for going against party decision.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee the circumstances under
which you severed your connection with the Communist Party eventu-
ally?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, I started withdrawing from the party in 1936.
I was injured in February of 1936. I had gotten so tired, so worn out,
I was run dry. I felt that I was in a voluntary servitude that was
becoming most involuntary. I was ill. I saw my marriage going on
the rocks, and from February of 1936 I was not a very good Com-
munist. It took me 3 years to sever all connections.
It is like a race horse. A race horse gets to the winning line and
then canters a little, you know, before they stop. Well, it took me 3
years to canter to a stop in such a way that nobody knew I was out.
I did a MacArthur, I just sort of faded out.
Mr. Tavenner. What do you think led you more definitely than
anything else to make the break from the Communist Party?
Mrs. Ashe. I think I know what you are leading up to, but that is-
something that I did a few notes on.
I can't say that I became so completely disillusioned with the Com-
munist Party that I wanted to break with it. That came lfiter. Be-
cause when you are in the party you are in a state of mesmerism.
As my husband stated, you don't think for yourself at all. You
work 16 and 18 hours a day, you don't have enough food, you don't
have anything. And after 3 years of that we got a little tired. I got
tireder than anybody else, evidently. It wasn't until I was away from
the party and had been away for quite a little while that I began to
get perspective on it and began to realize what a vicious, rotten, sub-
versive thing it is.
Mr. Tavenner. Is your break with the Communist Party a definite
and final break in all respects?
Mrs. Ashe. If I thought that through any weird machination of
fate I should ever again be put into the Communist Party I would
rather open up my veins and let all the blood out of my body. I don":
want any more Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Dotee. I notice, Mrs. Ashe, the dues book which you produced,
in which the stamps are posted, does show the last posting as of June
1939. In this book, also, is the constitution and bylaws of the Com-
munist Party of the United States. I don't find any place in it where
1478 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
there is any declaration of support of the Constitution of the United
States.
Mrs. Ashe. No.
Mr. Doyle. No doubt you have read it. But I can't find anywhere
where any member of the Communist Party is pledged to uphold the
Constitution of the United States. Do you know of any such declara-
tion?
Mrs. Ashe. No, there isn't. I don't know how other people feel.
Personally, I am an American ; I was born in Joplin, Mo., I am very
proud of being an American, I am very proud of the flag and I am
very proud of my citizenship. It never occurred to me that I was ever
forfeiting any of that by belonging to this.
Mr. Doyle. I have studied it, too, the last 30 minutes that you have
been testifying so helpfully. With reference to this stamp which you
identified as the international solidarity stamp, I find a section of the
constitution and bylaws which specifies that that shall be spent, the
moneys raised thus, shall be spent entirely for the aid and help of
brother Communists in other countries.
Mrs. Ashe. That is correct.
Mr. Doyle. I notice, however, that the letter of identification which
you also let the committee use, specifies that you were authorized to
accept monthly pledges.
Mrs. Ashe. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. It says nothing about monthly dues.
Mrs. Ashe. Well, these were not party members that I collected
from, you see.
Mr. Doyle. That is as far as you knew you were
Mrs. Ashe. As far as I knew ; that's correct.
Mr. Doyle. I remember you said that on one occasion you discovered
later they had been party members.
Mrs. Ashe. Yes. But as far as I knew they were sympathizers.
Mr. Doyle. In this constitution and bylaws book I find that on this
solidarity stamp there is a provision that every 4 months all members
of the party shall pay an assessment equal to average dues payment per
month for the previous 4 months. That that is the money that goes
for the solidarity stamp. In other words, it is apparently a particular
fund which is collectible only once in 4 months ?
, Mrs. Ashe. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. And is equal to the monthly assessment for 4 months.
Do I understand from your testimony that there was a considerable
list of people whom you did not know to be Communist Party members
who made monthly pledges ? Was it a long list of people ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, I had a long list, but I wasn't always able to con-
tact them. I mean, there were people on the list, but they were people
that somebody else maybe came in and said, "Look, so and so is sym-
pathetic, why don't you send somebody out and see if you can raise
some money from them ? "
Mr. Doyle. About how many would you say were on your list ?
Mrs. Ashe. I would say there were maybe 20, 25 names on that list.
Mr. Doyle. No doubt there were other collectors who had similar
lists?
Mrs. Ashe. I think not. At that time I think I had the only one.
Mr. Doyle. What do you suppose the largest sum was that you ever
thus collected from any one person at any one time ?
COMMUNISM EST MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1479
Mrs. Ashe. Not very much. I wouldn't say more than $40 or $50,
maybe as much as a hundred.
Mr. Doyle. What classification of an individual would pay that
much as a special pledge, do you remember?
Mrs. Ashe. They were people who were making quite a bit of
money. I mean, they were people who were working in the studios
and got good salaries.
Mr. Doyle. I notice you referred to the YCL. That is the Young
Communist League ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; that is correct.
Mr. Doyle. You also mentioned that there was a children's organ-
ization ; is that one and the same ?
Mrs. Ashe. No. The YCL was made up of young people between
the ages, I would say, maybe 12 to 18, or something like that. I mean
the adolescents. The Schuler was an organization of Jewish children
who were brought together — I think — about once a week I think they
met. And what they actually were being instructed in was the
language, the Jewish language, and so forth. Whether they got party
line or not, I don't know.
Mr. Doyle. But under the auspices of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Ashe. I believe that was a separate organization, but the
parents were Communists.
Mr. Doyle. You would say then that all of the parents of those chil-
dren who were being thus instructed were Communists ?
Mrs. Ashe. I would say that the majority of them were.
Mr. Doyle. Now, as to the YCL. How extensive an organization
was that ?
Mrs. Ashe. Well, it was quite extensive. As a matter of fact, I
think the membership of the YCL must have closely approximated
that of the party.
Mr. Doyle. Did the party spend money and hire people to work in
this YCL, which was the children's work ?
Mrs. Ashe. No ; they didn't hire any. They assigned you. As a
matter of fact, I was assigned to the YCL one time for 2 or 3 weeks
until something else came up. You weren't paid, you just took what-
ever assignments were handed to you. For instance, if I went into the
Young Communist League I would go as a representative of the party,
offering whatever advice I could to them. But they were a pretty
self-sufficient group of people. I mean, these kids had their own
parties, they had their own money-raising things, they did their own
recruiting. Their line was formed along the party line with the help
of a party member.
Mr. Doyle. To what extent were they educated in and encouraged
to participate in learning and accomplishing the Communist Party
program ?
Mrs. Ashe. They use exactly the same party line, the same litera-
ture, the same everything that the older comrades used. They had in-
struction every so often, I mean like once a week or so they had their
regular educationals. It was formed like the adult Communist Party.
Mr. Doyle. Would you say then that the adult Communist Party
was placing emphasis upon the YCL ?
Mrs. Ashe. There were times I thought the YCL was placing em-
phasis on the party. I mean, they were much more militant in many
ways than the party was. They were quite a crowd.
1480 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Doyle. Those were children then of junior and senior high-
school age, I understand ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; they were.
Mr. Doyle. How did they pick the young people to join the YCL?
Where did they come from ?
Mrs. Ashe. They picked themselves. They went out and recruited
members just exactly the way the Communist Party did.
Mr. Doyle. Did they have any dues?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes ; they had dues.
Mr. Doyle. I think that's all.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Jackson. Mrs. Ashe, I believe you mentioned in the course of
your testimony that you made several trips to Malibu ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. Have you identified those persons whom you called
upon in Malibu ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, I have.
J. Stander had a home down there, and I collected from Jay when
he had his home in Malibu. Lionel Stander.
Mr. Jackson. Previous testimony before the committee has been
introduced to indicate that there was a tithe system of payment in
addition to the monthly dues, which was sometimes based upon the
weekly or monthly earnings of the individual.
Mrs. Ashe. Yes; that's correct.
Mr. Jackson. Did these individuals whom you contacted in this
regard pay on that basis?
Mrs. Ashe. I don't know, because I didn't know them as Communist
Party members. I only knew them as people who were sympathetic
to the party and were willing to contribute to the party on a monthly
basis.
Mr. Jackson. During the period of time that you acted in that
capacity can you give the committee on estimate of the amount of
money that you collected ? I realize it would have to be a very rough
approximation.
Mrs. Ashe. It would. In fact, it is virtually impossible to do it.
I would like to be helpful, but I couldn't.
Mr. Jackson. Was it in the hundreds or was it in the thousands ?
Mrs. Ashe. I would say in the hundreds.
Mr. Jackson. In the hundreds of dollars ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. I understand, and it has been reiterated time and time
again, that there is no such thing as independent judgment, so far as
a Communist is concerned, or so far as the Communist Party is
concerned.
Mrs. Ashe. That is correct. The individual counts for nothing,
everything is the mass. The individual as an individual is not impor-
tant. I would like to illustrate that, if I may.
Mr. Jackson. Please do.
Mrs. Ashe. This, incidentally, has to do with another disciplinary
committee meeting. We had Dr. Tashjian to contend with, as you
have heard, and he was a little worried because some of the married
couples in the party were in the same units, and he contended that
they went home and discussed everything and came back and voted
as a block. So he tried to put through a ruling that married couples
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1481
were not permitted to belong to the same unit. Incidentally, we
picketed the party. It is probably the only time in the history of the
party that the party was picketed.
Mr. Jackson. The husbands and wives picketed the party in pro-
test?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes, we did. And we carried banners.
Mr. Jackson. Then there is no such thing, obviously, as objective
debate over which of two alternate courses of action should be fol-
lowed ?
Mr. Ashe. That is exactly the situation.
Mr. Jackson. In sum then, you can say that a member of the
Communist Party is simply a machine with no human reactions,
so far as his ability to think independently or to act independently
are concerned ?
Mrs. Ashe. That is very correct.
Mr. Jackson. He is a robot who is entirely responsible to an alien
philosophy and an alien doctrine and owes no allegiance to the United
States of America ?
Mrs. Ashe. That I will stop you on just a moment. I want to
illustrate it. For instance, I remember someone asked Mr. Earl
Browder whether or not he would permit his children to salute the
American flag. He said, "Certainly. It's their flag."
As I stated before, I had no feeling myself that I had given up any-
thing in the way of citizenship rights, and it was only until I was
away that I began to realize that the propaganda is so insidious and
so constant, and wears you down to such an extent that you find
yourself voting and working for Mr. Stalin.
Mr. Jackson. Of course, Mr. Browder fell into disrepute in the
Communist Party.
Mrs. Ashe. This, I believe, was even before that. Maybe that
was one of the things that put him in disrepute.
Mr. Jackson. Without respect to what your feelings were, or what
your thoughts were at the time you were a member, is it true that
you have since come to the position I stated a few minutes ago, that
a member of the Communist Party is a robot without any independ-
ence of action ?
Mrs. Ashe. He has absolutely no opportunity to do anything for
himself. For one thing he doesn't have time. You know, they talk
about exploiting the working class. Believe me, the capitalist sys-
tem can learn something about exploitation, the way they exploit
their members.
Mr. Jackson. In the event of war between this country and the
Soviet Union, where would the average Communist, out of your
experience, be found ; on the side of the United States or on the side
of the Soviet Union ?
Mrs. Ashe. On the side of the Soviet Union.
Mr. Jackson. There is no question in your mind as to that ?
Mrs. Ashe. Absolutely not.
Mr. Jackson. I have no more questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter.
$ Mr. Potter. Mrs. Ashe, you mentioned in your testimony your ac-
tivity as a member of a fraction. I think that many people would
like to have you elaborate on that and explain just what a fraction is.
But before you do I am wondering if this is not the case. The Com-
1482 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
munist Party was charged with a responsibility, a duty to set up
fractions in as many mass organizations as possible ; is that not correct?
Mrs. Ashe. That is correct.
Mr. Potter. If three or more members of the Communist Party are
in a mass organization they automatically establish that fraction ; is
that true ?
Mrs. Ashe. That is correct.
Mr. Potter. Then your fraction, or your Communist members of a
mass organization meet and determine the Communist policy line and
try to apply that Communist Party line within the mass organiza-
tion ; is that not true ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes. Then when there is a meeting of the organization
they go in and vote as a block.
Mr. Potter. They vote as a block ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes.
Mr. Potter. And by so doing, acting with a singleness of purpose,
many fractions of very few in number can control mass organizations
of hundreds of people ; is that not correct ?
Mrs. Ashe. Yes; that's true.
Mr. Potter. That's all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Thank you very much, Mrs. Ashe, for your appearance
here and for your valuable testimony before the committee.
Mr. Counsel, is there any reason why this witness should not be
excused ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. It is so ordered.
Who do you have next ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Michael Gordon.
Mr. Wood. Are you Mr. Gordon.
Mr. Gordon. Yes.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Gordon, will you hold up your right hand and be
sworn. You solemnly swear the evidence you give this committee
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?
Mr. Gordon. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL GORDON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,
A. L. WIRIN
Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Gordon ?
Mr. Gordon. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wood. Will counsel identify himself for the record, please.
Mr. Wirin. A. L. Wirin, 257 South Spring Street, Los Angeles.
Mr. Tavenner. You are Michael Gordon ?
Mr. Gordon. Yes.
Mr. Wood. Before beginning, Mr. Gordon, under the rules of this
committee you have a perfect right to consult your counsel at any time
you see fit to do so, and obtain from him any advice or information
that you desire concerning your rights as a witness here before this
committee.
Mr. Gordon. Thank you.
Mr. Wood. And that goes for any other witness that appears before
this committee.
Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Michael Gordon ?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1483
Mr. Gordon. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Where and when were you born, Mr. Gordon %
Mr. Gordon. Baltimore, Md., September 6, 1909.
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live ?
Mr. Gordon. At the moment at the Portal Motel on Cahuenga
Boulevard.
Mr. Tavenner. What is you occupation ?
Mr. Gordon. I am a screen director, and I formerly was a stage
director.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly for the committee what your
educational background has been.
Mr. Gordon. The public elementary and high schools of Baltimore,
Md., the Johns Hopkins University, Yale University.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you speak just a little bit louder, please. I
understood you but with some difficulty.
What has been your employment record, in brief ?
Mr. Gordon. I arrived in New York in 1932. From 1932 to 1940
I was variously employed as an actor, assistant stage manager, stage
manager, assistant director, and director. In 1940 I came to Holly-
wood, where I worked as a dialog director, then later as a director.
In an interim period, from 1943 to 1946, in theater again, and from
1946 until April of this year I was here as a director.
Mr. Tavenner. What are some of the principal pictures which you
have directed ?
Mr. Wood. The witness objects to being photographed
Mr. Gordon. I don't object, Mr. Chairman, but I think it is very
distracting if they stand there for quite some time.
Mr. Wood. Just a little bit closer to the microphone and elevate
your voice a little bit more.
I will have to ask the photographers to refrain from distracting the
witness.
Mr. Wirin. He has no objection. He wants them to get through,
but he wants to go on and testify.
Mr. Gordon. Would you repeat the question, Mr. Tavenner?
Mr. Tavenner. The question was, What are the principal pictures
that you have directed?
Mr. Gordon. In chronological order, they were : Boston Blackie
Goes Hollywood, Underground Agent, One Dangerous Night, The
Crime Doctor. The Webb. Another Part of the Forest, An Act of
Murder, The Lady Gambles, Woman in Hiding, Cyrano de Bergerac,
I Can Get It for You Wholesale, and The Secret of Convict Lake.
Mr. Wood. I am afraid we are having a little difficulty hearing you.
Can you speak just a little louder?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gordon, are you acquainted with Mr. Frank
Tuttle?
Mr. Gordon. Mr. Frank Tuttle
Mr. Tavenner. That is the Mr. Frank Tuttle who is the director,
a moving-picture director. I believe there are several persons by that
name.
Mr. Gordon. I believe the man you referred to appeared before this
committee, and in the context of his appearance I will claim the privi-
lege of fifth amendment and decline to answer questions of my alleged
acquaintance with Mr. Tuttle on the ground that to do so might tend
to incriminate me.
1484 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mi*. Tavenner. Mr. Tuttle, as you have stated, has appeared before
this committee. The date of his appearance was May 24, 1951, at
which time he was asked a question to name the directors who were
associated with him in the Communist Party. Among the questions,
this was asked him :
If you will, name for the committee who they were.
That is, who were the directors associated with him in the Communist
Party.
To which he replied : x
Yes. I have already named Mr. Biberman, who wag a director, Mr. Dmytryk,
myself, Mr. Michael Gordon, Mr. Jules Dassin. These two gentlemen, I think,
left the party. I'm not sure when. Mr. Bernard Vorhaus.
Is it a correct statement that you were a member of the Communist
Party while a director in Hollywood?
Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
stated in relation to the previous question.
Mr. Taat3nner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of an article appear-
ing on page 5 of the People's World of February 11, 1943. It is to the
effect that one Michael Gordon and others are teacher-directors at the
League of American Writers School. Would you look at it and identify
the article.
Mr. Gordon. I have seen the article, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage, as that article says, as a teacher-
director at the League of American Writers School ?
Mr. Gordon. I believe that the League of American Writers School
and the League of American Writers are both listed as subversive
organizations by your committee
Mr. Wood. Irrespective of what the listing is, you were asked a
direct question, and would you answer it. Were you a teacher in that
school ?
Mr. Gordon. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds I
explained.
Mr. Wood. There is no necessity to explain what the citation has been
about the school. If you refuse to answer the question you can state
your reasons for not answering it.
Mr. Wirin. He was also stating his reasons, sir, as I understood it.
Mr. Wood. The reason doesn't involve what happened to the school.
If it involves him he could so answer. If the answer would tend to
incriminate him he has a right to claim that privilege.
Mr. Wirin. My understanding is that he was merely explaining why
he declined to answer.
Mr. Wood. I was explaining to the witness.
Do you decline to answer the question ?
Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of the
fifth amendment, on the ground that to do so might tend to incriminate
me.
Mr. Tavenner. I show you a copy of an advertisement that ap-
peared in the Sunday Worker of September 22, 1940, at page 7. Ac-
cording; to this advertisement Michael Gordon was one of the directors
1 See Communist Infiltration of Hollywood Motion-Picture Industry — I\irt 3, p. 629.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1485
of the New Theater School. Is that a correct recital of fact, namely
that you were a director of the New Theater School ?
Mr. Gordon. I will decline to answer that question, too, on the
previously stated grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I show you a photostatic copy of what is entitled
"The Original Statement of the Committee for the First Amend-
ment," and its original signers. Will you examine it, please. (The
document was handed to the witness.)
Among the original signers appears the name of Michael Gordon.
Are you the Michael Gordon referred to in that statement?
Mr. Gordon. May I consult with counsel, please, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Wood. Yes, sir. You have that right at any time you desire,
sir.
Mr. Gordon (after consulting with counsel). I decline to answer
that question, too, sir, on the previously stated grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. In this statement the signers say they are disgusted
and outraged by the continued attempt of the House Committee on
Un-American Activities to smear the motion-picture industry. Do
you join in that expression of opinion that the House committee has
smeared the motion-picture industry ?
Mr. Gordon. Are you asking my personal opinion on this subject?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Gordon. I would prefer not to express or discuss my personal
opinions under the circumstances of my appearance here today.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you sign a statement in which you stated that
that was your opinion ?
Mr. Gordon. You have asked this question in another form, sir, a
moment ago. I have declined to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Committee for the First
Amendment ?
Mr. Gordon. This is the third time you have asked the same ques-
tion, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. No; I have not nskerl that question.
Mr. Wood. Let's don't argue. We will get along a lot faster.
Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been affiliated with the Actors'
Laboratory ?
Mr. Gordon. I claim the privilege of the fifth amendment on that
question as well, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a letterhead of the Actor's Laboratory
Theater — I will withdraw that question. Were you at any time a
member of the executive board of the Actors' Laboratory Theater ?
Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that
to do so might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no other questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Gordon, what criminal charge do you think might
be preferred against you if you were to admit that you knew Frank
Turtle?
Mr. Gordon. Representative Walter, I am in no sense of the word
equipped to discuss from a legal point of view the nature of the fifth
amendment. I believe I understand its intent, and I feel that to
1486 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
answer that question, to attempt to explain why I feel an answer to a
prior question might tend to incriminate me, might in itself incrimi-
nate me. Therefore I must decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Walter. You surely must have had a reason for declining to
answer.
Mr. Gordon. Have you asked a question, sir ?
Mr. Walter. Yes. You had a reason, didn't you, for declining to
answer the question?
Mr. Gordon. I have declined to answer the question in the first in-
stance, and it seems to me that rephrasing this is simply an attempt
to shake my position, which I do not wish to have shaken. I will
stand on the privilege, sir.
Mr. Walter. I am not attempting to do anything of the sort. I am
just wondering whether or not you aren't arbitrarily hiding behind the
section of the Constitution of the United States that does not appear
in the constitution of Russia or any of the iron-curtain countries. I
would like to know why you decline to answer.
Mr. Gordon. I would like to take issue with your statement that I
am hiding something, sir. That implies a criticism and attack not
only on the fifth amendment of the Constitution, it seems to me, but
on the citizen who invokes it. I believe that this provision was placed
in the Constitution not simply as campaign oratory but to be used and
to be used in just such a situation as this.
Mr. Walter. To be used, yes ; that's correct.
Mr. WiRm. May I address the chairman of the committee in this
connection, in connection with this matter?
Mr. Walter. I haven't yielded. I am in the middle of interrogating
the witness, you see.
Mr. Wirin. Would you yield so that I may ask the chairman a ques-
tion, sir?
Mr. Wood. Counsel's prerogative in this committee is to advise
his client.
Mr. Wirin. I understand. But you have ruled that he doesn't have
to explain about the fifth amendment.
Mr. Wood. And I don't want to have any argument about my ruling.
Mr. Walter. He has been advised, of course. It is quite obvious.
Mr. Wirin. I have done the best that I could ; yes.
Mr. Walter. You have done well.
I would like to know what is in your mind. You have declined to
answer the question as to whether or not you knew somebody on the
ground that to admit that you knew this man might subject you to
a prosecution.
Mr. Wirin. Would you yield to me, Mr. Congressman, for a
moment ?
Mr. Wood. I will have to ask you to retire from the hearing room
unless you remain quiet. You can advise your client any time you
desire, and that's as far as your rights go here.
Mr. Wirin. May I do so now ?
(The witness consulted with his counsel.)
Mr. Gordon. I am sorry, Mr. Walter.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1487
Mr. Walter. What I want to know is what prosecution do you think
could be lodged against you for admitting that you knew an individual
who happens to be employed in Hollywood.
Mr. Gordon. Mr. Walter, I believe I stated, to the best of my ability,
that to attempt to explain why I feel an answer to a question may
tend to incriminate me that the explanation itself might equally tend
to incriminate. Consequently I have refused to answer that question,
basing my refusal on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Walter. That's all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Gordon, are you devoted to the Constitution of
the United States?
Mr. Gordon. I believe I am.
Mr. Jackson. Would you support and defend the United States
of America in case of conflict with the Soviet Union ?
Mr. Gordon. Would you particularize that question a little more
fully ? How do you mean "support and defend" ?
Mr. Jackson. Not at all. Would you fight for this country?
Mr. Gordon. In event of war with the Soviet Union ?
Mr. Jackson. Yes.
Mr. Gordon. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. Do you approve the course of action taken by this
country in Korea?
Mr. Gordon. You are asking again my personal opinion. I have
said earlier that I do not consider this an adequate forum for
myself
Mr. Jackson. Every American citizen, Mr. Gordon, has an opinion
with respect to the actions of this country in Korea. It is not invading
the realm of opinion. Either you approve of it or you don't approve
of it. I think it is a very simple question and could be answered
very simply by "Yes" or "No."
Mr. Gordon. I prefer not to discuss my personal opinions under the
circumstances of my appearance before this committee, sir.
Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter?
Mr. Potter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Any further questions by counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. No further questions.
Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused ?
Mr. Tavenner. No reason.
Mr. Charles Daggett.
Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn, please.
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give this subcom-
mittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?
Mr. Daggett. So help me God.
Mr. Wood. Proceed. Will you be seated? Are you represented
by counsel ?
1488 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Daggett. Yes; I am.
Mr. Wood. Will counsel give his name and address.
Mr. Kenney. Robert Kenny, 250 North Hope, Los Angeles.
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES DAGGETT, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, ROBERT W. KENNY
Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Charles Daggett?
Mr. Daggett1. That's right.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Daggett. Springfield, Mo.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational background ?
Mr. Daggett. The public schools and the high school in Los Angeles.
Mr. Tavenner. How have you been employed ?
Mr. Daggett. All of my life ?
Mr. Tavenner. No ; since
Mr. Daggett. All my working life, that is ?
Mr. Tavenner. Since you have been earning a living.
Mr. Daggett. As a newspaperman from 1928 until 1939 or 1940,
principally.
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. Where were you a newspaperman
between 1928 and 1940?
Mr. Daggett. Well. I worked on the Los Angeles Times three times.
Mr. Tavenner. When ?
Mr. Daggett. Once as a sports writer when I was going to high
school. I can't remember the exact date. Around 1928, I believe;
1 927, 1926. My first regular newspaper job was on the old Los Angeles
Record from about 1929 until 1932 or 1933, I believe. I worked on
the Los Angeles Examiner here. I worked on the Los Angeles Daily
News, and I worked on Daily Variety in Hollywood. I have also
worked on the Seattle Star in Seattle,
Mr. Tavenner. All right, sir. What other employment have you
had more recently?
Mr. Daggett. Since about 1940, except for a period of time when I
did work on Variety, I have been a publicist and a public relations
counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Acting for whom?
Mr. Daggett. A rather large list, if you don't mind. I worked for
Selznick — David Selznick pictures. I worked for Samuel Goldwyn.
I was a public relations counsel and ghost writer for James Roosevelt,
I worked for United Productions of America. I worked for the Cag-
ney Co., and I believe I did publicity in an independent firm for a
number of distinguished stars, including Laurence Olivier, Vivien
Leigh, Jane Russell, the woman who was married to Clark Gable who
died whose name I cannot recall — Carole Lombard — and a number
of personalities of that order.
Mr. Tavenner. How are you presently employed?
Mr. Daggett. I am not employed.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been unemployed ?
Mr. Daggett. Since the end of last week.
Mr. Tavenner. Where were you employed at that time?
Mr. Daogett. I was working for a company known as United Pro-
ductions of America.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1489
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live in 1942, Mr. Daggett?
Mr. Daggett. 1942? The street address?
Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you live at Rosemead, Calif., in August
1942?
Mr. Daggett. No ; I did not.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you live there in 1932 ?
Mr. Daggett. No; I did not.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever lived there ?
Mr. Daggett. Not that I can recall ever having lived in Rosemead,
Calif.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time sign a petition to put the Com-
munist Party on the ballot in the primary election in 1932 ?
Mr. Daggett. I am afraid you are trying to link me' with a sub-
versive organization, and I shall have to decline to answer that ques-
tion on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Wood. Without anticipating what he is seeking to do, sir, the
question as asked was did you sign such a petition. What is your
answer?
Mr. Daggett. My answer is that I shall decline to answer it,
Congressman.
Mr. Wood. Very well.
Mr. Daggett. On the grounds stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Well
Mr. Walter. Let's get it on the grounds that the Communist Party
is a subversive organization?
Mr. Daggett. On the ground of the fifth amendment, sir. I think
the answer I made is quite clear.
Mr. Walter. It wasn't to me. I understood you to say that you did
decline to answer because Mr. Tavenner was trying to link your
name with a subversive organization.
Mr. Daggett. Correct.
Mr. Walter. I was just wondering what that organization was.
Mr. Daggett. He named it.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mr. Harold Ashe ?
Mr. Daggett. I shall have to decline to answer that question on the
same ground previously stated.
Mr. Wood. Just a moment. You don't have to decline to do any-
thing here, sir, unless you desire to do it, so don't — please don't leave
the inference that you are under any compulsion to decline to answer.
The question is, Do you decline to answer I
Mr. Daggett. I do decline to answer ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you present during the testimony of Mr.
Harold Ashe.
Mr. Daggett. Part of the time ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear that part of his testimony in which he
referred to his acquaintanceship with you?
Mr. Daggett. May I consult my attorney ? [Consulting counsel.]
Yes, I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear him say that in 1939 he procured from
you a copy of the report — the 1938 report of the Committee on Un-
American Activities.
Mr. Daggett. I decline to answer that question on the ground of the
fifth amendment.
1490 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Were you mentioned in that report made by the
Committee on Un-American Activities in 1938 ? Is that the ground
why you
Mr. Daggett. I don't believe I was. I don't recollect having been
mentioned.
Mr. Tavenner. Then what was there about that report which might
— the giving to Mr. Ashe might constitute some criminal offense ?
Mr. Daggett. I decline to answer that question, Mr. Counsel, on
the same ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear that part of Mr. Ashe's testimony in .
which he stated that you were a member of Z-100, the secret pro-
fessional club
Mr. Daggett. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Daggett. No, I didn't hear that. I was out in the hall during
part of his testimony. I didn't hear that part.
Mr. Tavenner. You did not hear that ?
Mr. Daggett. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, I am stating to you that that was his testi-
mony. Were you a member of Z-100 or Z-150 ?
Mr. Daggett. I decline to answer that question on the grounds I
have previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. And what was that ground ?
Mr. Daggett. On the ground of the fifth amendment, that you are
attempting to link me with a subversive organization, and that I may
incriminate myself by answering the question.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, by testifying or admitting that
you were a member of that organization you might subject yourself
to criminal prosecution?
Mr. Daggett. I shall have to decline to answer on the same ground,.
Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear Mrs. Ashe testify ?
' Mr. Daggett. Part of her testimony. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear that part of her testimony in which
she stated that she sat in many Communist Party meetings with
you?
Mr. Daggett. I heard her mention my name, but I didn't hear
all of that testimony that you are quoting because I was in the hall
smoking a cigarette while she was on, and I could hear her mention
my name.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you known Mrs. Ashe ?
Mr. Daggett. I shall have to decline to answer that question.
Mr. Wood. Please don't state you have to decline to do anything.
The question is, Do you decline or don't you?
Mr. Daggett. All right, I will try to remember that. I do decline.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever sit in a Communist Party meeting
with Mrs. Ashe ?
Mr. Daggett. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Daggett, you have made the statement at least
on three occasions during my examination of you that I was endeavor-
ing to link you with a subversive organization. Now, I want to
make it very plain that I am giving you every opportunity for you,,
yourself, to disassociate yourself with any such organization, if you
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1491
are a member, or to disavow it if you are a member. I am giving
you the opportunity to unlink yourself. Do you care to take advan-
tage of that opportunity ?
Mr. Daggett. Are you asking me a question ?
Mr. Tavenner. Most assuredly ; yes.
Mr. Daggett. Can you phrase it again so that I can get what it
is, clearly ?
Mr. Tavenner. Do you desire to unlink yourself from the subver-
sive organization which you say I am trying to link you with ?
Mr. Daggett. Well, I shall decline to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Very well, sir. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter?
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle ?
Mr. Doyle. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Daggett, do you consider the Communist Party
to be a subversive organization ?
Mr. Daggett. I shall have to decline to answer that question, Mr.
Jackson.
Mr. Jackson. Are you at present a member of the Communist
Party ?
Mr. Daggett. I am not a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Jackson. You are not ?
Mr. Daggett. I am not.
Mr. Jackson. You are not a member at present ?
Mr. Daggett. I am not a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Jackson. Were you a member of the Communist Party yes-
terday ?
Mr. Daggett. I decline to answer that question, Congressman Jack-
son.
Mr. Jackson. No further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter?
Mr. Potter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Any questions by counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. Any reason why this witness shouldn't be excused from
further attendance to this committee ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. So ordered.
Who will you have next ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Percy Solotoy.
Mr. Wood. Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn, please.
You do solemnly swear the testimony you give to this subcommittee
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?
Mr. Solotoy. I do.
Mr. Wood. Are you represented here by counsel ?
Mr. Solotoy. I am, sir.
Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record.
Mr. Horowitz. Fred Horowitz, 756 South Broadway, Los Angeles.
Mr. Wood. You have the right to confer with your client at any time
during the course of this interrogation that you desire. [Addressing
81595— 51— pt. 4 6
1492 COMMUNISM IN MOTION- PICTURE INDUSTRY
witness :] You have the right to confer with your counsel, likewise.
Mr. Horowitz. Thank you.
TESTIMONY OF PERCY S0L0T0Y, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,
FRED HOROWITZ
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ?
Mr. Solotoy. Percy Solotoy.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Solotoy ?
Mr. Solotoy. I was born in Winnipeg, Canada, August 30, 1910.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen ?
Mr. Solotoy. Yes, I am.
Mr. Tavenner. When were you naturalized?
Mr. Solotoy. In 1933. I don't remember the month.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the
time you were naturalized an American citizen ?
Mr. Solotot. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you become a member of the Communist Party
at a later time ?
Mr. Solotoy. I shall decline to answer that question upon the
grounds stated in the fifth amendment for fear of self-incrimination.
Mr. Wood. Can you hear the witness, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. Very faintly.
Mr. Wood. We can barely hear you up here.
Mr. Solotoy. I am sorry, sir.
Mr. Wood. I wonder if you could elevate your voice a little louder.
I understand you to say you declined to answer that question last asked
you on the ground of the fifth amendment \
Mr. Solotoy. And for fear of self-incrimination.
Mr. Wood. And for fear of self-incrimination.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party at this
time ?
Mr. Solotoy. I shall decline to answer that question for the reasons
before stated.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to the United States, Mr.
Solotov ?
Mr. Solotoy. In 1924.
Mr. Tavenner. At the age of about 14 ?
Mr. Solotoy. I would have to figure that out. About the age of
14.
Mr. Tavenner. Then the major part of your education was received
in the United States?
Mr. Solotoy. In California.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, that is in the United States.
Mr. Solotoy. I am a- California booster, as you say.
Mr. Tavenner. What has your education consisted of, Mr. Solotoy?
Mr. Solotoy. I went through high school in Los Angeles at the
Roosevelt High School. 1 secured an A. B. degree at the University
of California at Los Angeles.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you attend the University of California?
Mr. Solotoy. At Los Angeles?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Solotoy. Between the years of 19:20—1920 and 1930. Then
I attended law school at the Boalt Hall of Law.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1493
Mr. Tavenner. Where?
Mr. Solotoy. Boalt Hall of Law in Berkeley, Calif. I graduated.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the year of your graduation ?
Mr. Solotoy. 1933.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage in the practice of law ?
Mr. Solotoy. Not until the following year, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. How long did you practice law and where ?
Mr. Solotoy. I practiced law in the city of Los Angeles until 1938.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mr. Spencer Austrian,
an attorney at law in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Solotoy. I shall decline to answer that question upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. What other business or occuption have you been
engaged in since 1939, since the time you ceased the practice of law ?
Mr. Solotoy. Furniture manufacturing business.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your position now ?
Mr. Solotoy. I am president of a furniture manufacturing com-
pany.
Mr. Tavenner. What is the name of the company ?
Mr. Solotoy. Brown- Saltman.
Mr. Wood. I can't hear you.
Mr. Solotoy. I'm sorry, sir. I thought I was loud enough. Am
I making it difficult for you, too, counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; it is very difficult to understand you.
Mr. Solotoy. I am sorry.
Mr. Wood. Would you repeat the name of the company again.
Mr. Solotoy. Brown-Saltman Co.
Mr. Tavenner. A previous functionary in the Communist Party,
Mr. Harold Ashe, and also his former wife, Mrs. Mildred Ashe, have
testified here today. Were you present during their testimony?
Mr. Solotoy. I was only present here at the very tail end of
Mr. Ashe's testimony. I was here during Mrs. Ashe's testimony.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you hear the testimony of Mrs. Ashe in
which she stated that she knew you as a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Solotoy. I heard it.
Mr. Tavenner. AVas her statement truthful ?
Mr. Solotoy. I shall decline to answer that, counsel, upon the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. And what are the grounds ?
Mr. Solotoy. That any answer I may give in that regard creates in
me a fear of self-incrimination and, further, that I believe I am
warranted to the protection of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mr. Harold Ashe?
Mr. Solotoy. I shall decline to answer that upon the same grounds,
Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you taken part in any activity designed to
defeat the passage by Congress of legislation on the subject of sub-
versive action ?
Mr. Horowitz. May we have a moment here ?
Mr. Wood. Yes, sir.
Mr. Solotoy. I shall decline to answer that, Counsel, upon the
grounds previously stated.
1494 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been a member of the board
of directors of the Southern California Progressive Citizens of
America.
Mr. Solotoy. Would you repeat the name of that organization, sir ?
Mr. Tavenner. Southern California Progressive Citizens of
America.
Mr. Solotoy. Yes; 1 was.
Mr. Tavenner. How long were you a member of that organization ?
Mr. Solotoy. My best recollection is that it was a matter of several
months. I don't recall how many.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee what you know, if
anything, regarding the participation in that organization of members
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Solotoy. I am not able to help the committee in that regard at
all, sir. During the time that I was on the board of directors of that
organization, I was not aware of any Communist Party members in
it.
Mr. Wood. Would you inquire what year that was ?
Mr. Tavenner. What was the date, the period of time when you
were on that organization?
Mr. Solotoy. My best recollection is that it was toward the end
of 1947 and perhaps early 1948—1947 and 1948.
Mr. Tavenner. Was John Howard Lawson a member of the board
of directors with you in that organization ?
Mr. Solotoy. I frankly don't know, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You were acquainted with Mr. John Howard
Lawson, weren't you?
Mr. Solotoy. No ; I was not.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy, page 3 of the Daily
People's World of January 26, 1948, and I will ask you to look at the
last paragraph of an article appearing there under the caption "It
is our No. 1 job" where you will find listed the names of the board
members, and I will ask you to examine it and state whether or not
it refreshes your recollection that Mr. John Howard Lawson was a
member of the board of directors with you.
Mr. Solotoy. It does not refresh my memory.
Mr. Tavenner. It does not. Were you acquainted with Mr. Sam*
Moore ?
Mr. Solotoy. The name does not mean anything to me, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you look again at the list of members of the
board of directors and state whether or not you find listed there the
name of Sam Moore.
Mr. Solotoy. I see it listed, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Does that note refresh your recollection that h&
served on the board with you ?
Mr. Solotot. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you actually participate in the board
meetings ?
Mr. Solotoy. I participated in one full board meeting that I
remember.
Mr. Tavenner. But you do not remember the presence of Mr. Law-
son or Mr. Moore ?
Mr. Solotoy. No, sir.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1495
Mr. Tavenner. I think that is all. Were you acquainted with Mr.
Herbert Klein ?
Mr. Horowitz. I'm sorry; I didn't hear you.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Herbert Klein, K-1-e-i-n, sometimes referred to
as Herb.
Mr. Solotoy. I must decline to answer that, sir, on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Wood. You are under no compulsion — ■ —
Mr. Solotoy. Oh, I'm sorry, sir. I do decline.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter?
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. No questions.
Mr. Jackson. I think you said that during the time you were on the
hoard of directors of the Southern California Progressive Citizens of
America that you were not aware of any Communists on that board.
Mr. Solotoy. That's correct.
Mr. Jackson. Do you know any members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Solotoy. I must decline to answer — I'm sorry. I do decline to
answer that, Congressman, on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter?
Mr. Potter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. I believe you say you served on the board of directors
of the Southern California Progressive Citizens of America during the
years or a portion of the years 1947 and 1948.
Mr. Solotoy. For several months, I said, sir; toward the end of
the year 1947 and the early part of 1948.
Mr. Wood. And during that period you had no knowledge of the
presence on that board of any Communists ?
Mr. Solotoy. That's correct.
Mr. Wood. Well, I will ask you whether or not you were a member
of the Communist Party in 1947.
Mr. Solotoy. I decline to answer that.
Mr. Wood. Or in 1948?
Mr. Solotoy. I decline to answer that, also.
Mr. Wood. You have said that you have no knowledge of the
presence on that board of any Communist during that period of time
and that you were a member of it yourself. Now, why is it that
you decline to tell us whether you were a member or not, because
if you were you must have known one member of the board that was
a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Solotoy/ I am sorry, sir ; I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Wood. You decline to answer that one, too ?
Mr. Solotoy. Yes.
Mr. Wood. For the ground that you previously have given ?
Mr. Solotoy. That's correct, sir.
Mr. Wood. So you are leaving this committee now that, notwith-
standing the fact that you have testified that there was not a mem-
ber of the Communist Party on that board during that time, to your
knowledge, but that you decline to answer whether you were or not
at that time yourself; is that the way you want to leave it?
1496 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Solotoy. I will revise my answer to that, Congressman. I
was not a member of the Communist Party during the period I was
on the board of directors of the Progressive Citizens of America.
Mr. Wood. Well, were you conscious of that fact when you declined
to answer that question a moment ago, or did you answer it in-
advertently ?
Mr. Solotoy. I answfered inadvertently.
Mr. Wood. Well, have you been a member of the Communist Party
since 1948?
Mr. Solotoy. No.
Mr. Wood. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1946?
Mr. Solotoy. I shall decline to answer that question upon the
grounds of self-incrimination.
Mr. Wood. In 1945 ?
Mr. Solotoy. I shall decline upon the same grounds, sir.
Mr. Wood. Any further questions, Counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Jackson. One further question. Mr. Solotoy, have you trav-
eled abroad within the past 10 years ?
Mr. Solotoy. No, sir.
Mr. Jackson. You have not been out of the country ?
Mr. Solotoy. Not that I can remember.
Mr. Jackson. Have you been out of the country since your original
entry in, I believe, 1924?
Mr. Solotoy. I believe that I may have made a trip to Ensenada or
Tijuana.
Mr. Jackson. You have never made application for a passport?
Mr. Solotoy. No, sir.
Mr. Jackson. No further questions.
Mr. Wood. Any further questions, Mr. Counsel?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. Any reason why this witness shouldn't be excused ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. So ordered.
Do you desire to take another witness this afternoon? It is ap-
proaching 5 : 30.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes; I think it would hardly pay to start with
another witness at this time.
Mr. Wood. 9 : 30 in the morning, gentlemen ? The committee will
stand in recess until 9 : 30 tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon, at the hour of 5 : 20 p. m., an adjournment was taken
until 9 : 30 a. m. of the following day.)
COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF HOLLYWOOD MOTION-
PICTURE INDUSTRY— PART 4
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 1951
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities,
Los Angeles, Calif.
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met
pursuant to adjournment at 9 : 55 a. m. in room 518, Federal Building,
Los Angeles, Calif., Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair-
man), Francis E. Walter, Clyde Doyle, Donald L. Jackson, and
Charles E. Potter.
Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Thomas W.
Beale, Sr., assistant counsel; Louis J. Russell, senior investigator;
William A. Wheeler, investigator ; John W. Carrington, clerk.
Mr. Wood. The meeting will be in order.
I would like to make a little announcement. The committee very
much appreciates the cooperation of the audience on yesterday and
sincerely hopes that we may continue to have the cooperation in order
that we may proceed as rapidly as possible with these hearings.
Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wood. Will you please let the record disclose that the subcom-
mittee is here present in its entirety, consisting of Messrs. Walter,
Doyle, Jackson, Potter, and Mr. Wood.
Who do you have?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Henry Blankfort.
Mr. Wood. Are you Mr. Blankfort?
Mr. Blankfort. I am Mr. Blankfort.
Mr. Wood. Will you hold up your hand and be sworn. Do you sol-
emnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee shall be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Blankfort. I do.
Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Blankfort. I am.
Mr. Wood. Will counsel identify himself for the record, please.
Mr. Neusom. Thomas Neusom, 1111 East Vernor, Los Angeles,
Calif.
TESTIMONY OE HENRY BLANKFORT, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, THOMAS NEUSOM
Mr. Wood. Have a seat, please.
I will advise you that you are at liberty to confer with your counsel
anytime you desire during the progress of your interrogation here
1497
1498 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
and that your counsel has the privilege of conferring with his client
any time he desires and give him such advice concerning his testimony
as he may see fit to do.
Mr. Blankfort. Thank you very much, Judge Wood.
Mr. Neusom. Thank you.
Mr. Blankfort. I have here two digests of Senator Kef auver, and
I would like to make a statement at this time here.
Mr. Wood. You are here for the purpose of answering questions. If
you have a statement that you would like to file with the committee, we
will be glad to accept it.
Mr. Blankfort. I have this statement, which includes two resolu-
tions of Senator Kef auver, which is drawn up
Mr. Wood. Submit it, sir.
Mr. Blankfort. I would like to have it read in the record, if I might.
Mr. Wood. Would you just be patient. File your statement with the
clerk.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Henry Blankfort, I believe?
Mr. Blankfort. I am Mr. Henry Blankfort, and I have also used
the pen names of Henry Bancroft and Jan Jeffries.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Blankfort ?
Mr. Blankfort. I was born in New York City on Christmas Dav,
1906. That is December 25.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state for the committee, please, in a gen-
eral way, your educational preparation ?
Mr. Blankfort. My formal education was rather brief. It was sim-
ply elementary and high school in the New York City schools. My
inf ormal education, however, began when I realized the responsibility
of every American to think clearly and independently and to seek the
truth ; and no intimidation will steer me from this course.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state for the committee, please, what your
employment record has been.
Mr. Blankfort. Since I have been in Hollywood, sir ?
Mr. Tavenner. Since the completion of your educational work.
Mr. Blankfort. Well, when I left high school I was employed for
a while by the J. Walter Thompson Co., an advertising agency in
New York City. I started as an office boy there and left as a junior
executive. After that I went into business for myself and did sales
and promotional work. I operated a chain store and then went in
the manufacture of steel products. Then subsequently I came to
Hollywood.
Mr. Tavenner. Since being in Hollywood how have you been em-
ployed ?
Mr. Blankfort. I have been employed as a screen writer and, for
a small period, as an associate producer.
Mr. Tavenner. When were you an associate producer?
Mr. Blankfort. I have to think of some of these dates. I never
realized that I would have to keep a dossier on myself so I will
Mr. Tavenner. I am not requesting that you be that exact in your
statement, but just give us a general
Mr. Blankfort. I think that I became an associate producer at
Universal Films about 19 — shortly before the end of the war.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did }<ou continue to work with a pro-
ducer ?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1499
Mr. Blankfort. I was under contract there for 1 year. I am curi-
ous, Mr. Tavenner, if these questions lead up to the control of content
of film, which one of your members, a member of this committee, has
already expressed on the air that they have done something in this
regard, and will the committee like me to put into the record
Mr. Wood. It would be most helpful if you will confine your answers
to the questions.
Mr. Blankfort. Perhaps to the committee but not to the American
people.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee, I am certain, would be very glad to
have the benefit of any knowledge you may have as to the control of
content of film.
Mr. Blankfort. Well, if this is the question, I would like to answer
it, sir. Mr. Velde, on the air, I believe in one of these Meet the Press
programs, when asked by the reporters whether or not he felt that this
committee had influenced content in film, remembering it as clearly as I
can, here is what Mr. Velde said
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. I am not asking you
Mr. Blankfort. You have asked me, sir, and I would like to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. I have asked you what you know,
if anything, regarding efforts made to control the content of films and
I will ask you to confine yourself to your answer.
Mr. Blankfort. Yes, I will do that. Knowledge comes to me
through many sources, of course, and I would like to think that the
words of a member of this committee have some worth in giving me
knowledge. Mr. Velde on the air said that even though he did not
think, perhaps, that this committee did influence films, but he ventures
to say that there will be less films now on racial problems, and I don't
think he meant Santa Anita or Hollywood Park.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you answer my question.
Mr. Blankfort. What is your question, sir?
Mr. Tavenner. I didn't think that you were addressing yourself to
the question.
Mr. Blankfort. Oh, your question is, What do I know about the
control of content of film?
Mr. Tavenner. The question is, What information do you have
regarding any effort made in the industry to control the content of
films in connection with the Communist Party ?
Mr. Blankfort. I refuse to answer any question in relation to the
Communist Party on the basis of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have such information ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Blankfort. I decline to answer that part of the question which
refers to the Communist Party on the basis of the fifth amendment to
the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. Tavenner. What were the principal films which you produced
while a producer ?
Mr. Blankfort. I say this shamefacedly, because I was an associate
producer doing B pictures, and I have developed a kind of psychologi-
cal block, hoping to forget the titles, but I was associate producer on a
film called Easy to Look At, and another thing called the Crimson
Canary and, believe me, the title "Crimson" had nothing political in it.
As a matter of fact, the original title was to be Hear That Trumpet
Talk, but it seems that the New York office of Universal had sold a
1500 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
picture called Crimson Canary and so, therefore, they put the title
of Crimson Canary on the picture.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Blankfort, I would like to ask you a few ques-
tions regarding your possible association with certain organizations
which have, from time to time, been cited by the Attorney General of
the United States, or this committee, as being of a subversive charac-
ter or as being Communist.
Mr. Blankfort. This is your privilege, and while you are looking
this up, Mr. Tavenner, as long as you brought up the lists cited by the
Attorney General, I would like to point out that it is public knowledge
that none of these organizations were entitled to a hearing. It is
public knowledge that these were cited by the opinion of the Attorney
General himself, and also, I believe, by the California Committee on
Un-American Activities whose late chairman, Mr. Tenney, has now
decided to try to legalize ghettos and segregation with another amend-
ment to the Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. I show you a photostatic copy of a ballot for election
of officers for the Hollywood Democratic Committee, dated July 26,
1944. The name of Henry Blankfort appears as a candidate on this
ballot for the position of executive board member. Were you a candi-
date for the executive board member ?
Mr. Blankfort. I must refuse — I will refuse to answer this ques-
tion on the grounds of the fifth amendment, because to answer this, in
a sense, might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the Hollywood Democratic Committee an out-
growth of the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League, to your knowledge?
Mr. Blankfort. I must decline to answer this question, sir, on the
same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the Hollywood Democratic Committee become
the Hollywood Independent Citizens Committee of the Arts, Sciences,
and Professions in July of 1943 ?
Mr. Blankfort. I must decline to answer this question
Mr. Tavenner. 1945.
Mr. Blankfort. Sir, on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I show you a photostatic copy on the letterhead of
the Hollywood Independent Citizens Committee of the Arts, Sciences,
and Professions, dated December 10, 1946, and call your attention to
the bottom of the letter where the members of the executive council are
listed. I believe the name Henry Blankfort appears there. Were you
a member of the executive council
Mr. Blankfort. I must decline to answer this.
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. Just a moment. Were you a mem-
ber of the executive council of the Hollywood Independent Citizens
Committee on the Arts, Sciences, and Professions as indicated by that
letterhead ?
Mr. Blankfort. I do decline to answer this question on the basis
of the fifth amendment, and I would like to added at this time that I
believe this committee's effort is to stifle all political opposition.
Air. Tavenner. Mr. Blankfort, the committee has information that
on February 5, 1945, you met in the home of Eichard Collins with
certain other individuals to discuss the financial situation of the
Communist Party in the motion-picture industry. Do you recall
having attended such a meeting?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1501
Mr. Blankfort. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the ground
of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting on July 7, 1945, at the
home of Albert Maltz to discuss the Duclos letter, which most people
are familiar with at this time as being the document which brought
about the overthrow of Earl Browder as head of the Communist Party
in the United States ?
Mr. Blankfort. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend other meetings at other places where
the Duclos letter was discussed ?
Mr. Blankfort. I decline to answer that other question, sir, on the
same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that at one time
you were the educational director of branch H of the northwest section
of the Los Angeles County Communist Party in, I believe, about the
year 1943. Is that information correct?
Mr. Blankfort. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the same
grounds. That is why I had hoped that this committee would have
given me permission to read Senator Kefauver's resolutions in rela-
tion to the activities of such legislative committees.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that you were trans-
ferred as a member of Halden Club of the Los Angeles County Com-
munist Party, or rather that you were transferred to that club from
what was known as the Hollywood Cultural Club in January of 1947.
Were you ever a member of either of those clubs of the Communist
Party ?
Mr. Blankfort. I will decline to answer that question on the
grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information that
you held 1946 Communist Party book No. 35320. Did you hold that
book, or any book designating or indicating membership in the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Blankfort. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dmytryk appeared as a witness before this
committee on April 25, 1951, and during the course of his testimony
he made this statement, which I quote : 1
Then there was another group which met for the purpose, I think, of some
sort of affair that had to do with the fight against anti-Negro prejudice. This
was composed of small committees, as it were, of several cells, several groups,
rather neighborhood groups throughout the town. Most of them I didn't know.
I knew just a few from Hollywood. The meeting was held at Ben Margolis'
house and Mr. Margolis was present, and Mr. Henry Blankfort was present, and
a man named George Pepper.
Do vou recall that meeting ?
Mr. Blankfort. I must decline to answer that question, sir, on the
basis of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Do you have any questions, Mr. Walter ?
Mr. Walter. Yes.
Mr. Blankfort, you stated that this committee has as its purpose
the stifling of all political opposition. Did you mean by that that this
1 See : Communist Infiltration of Hollywood Motion-Picture Industry — Part 2, p. 424.
1502 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
committee has as its purpose the elimination of the Communist Party
as opposition to our form of government ?
Mr. Blankfort. I believe that this committee, either unwittingly
or not, is falling into the trap of committees of this sort in the past,
which feeling a certain amount of power attempts to destroy all
political opposition by creating such an atmosphere of fear in the
country. Today we find that Americans fear to sign the Declaration
of Independence lest they be called Communist.
Here is an answer of Al Capp, one of the leading comic illustrators
of our day, and a humorist, mind you, who when asked in Pageant
magazine —
Do you think something is happening to our talent for self-criticism and self-
ridicule?
And here is what Al Capp says,
Happening? Hell it's already happened. It is not safe to laugh at ourselves
any more. I think we are losing one of our most precious freedoms, the freedom
to laugh at ourselves.
I submit this for the record, too, and I accuse this committee of
creating that atmosphere.
Here is an article
Mr. Walter. Never mind about that.
Mr. Blankfort. You asked me a question, sir.
Mr. Walter. I will appreciate if you answer my questions. Of
course, Al Capp isn't an authority on anything, he is just a humorist,
as you said.
Mr. Blankfort. Mr. Al Capp is a humorist. Yesterday I heard a
comment that this committee were authorities on humor.
Mr. Walter. We happen to know, Mr. Blankfort, a great deal about
you. We didn't subpena you to appear before this committee for the
purpose of embarrassing you or try you for anything.
Mr. Blankfort. Then I suggest you read Senator Kefauver'a
resolutions.
Mr. Walter. Yes. And we know Senator Kefauver.
Mr. Blankfort. And he knows you.
Mr. Walter. Very well. He ought to. I served on the same com-
mittee with him for a great many years.
Mr. Blankfort. Perhaps that is why he has written these resolu-
tions.
Mr. Walter. What I would like to know is this: Don't you feel
in view of the fact that we now know what communism is, that as a
result of the events that have occurred in recent months we are aware
of the dangers of this international conspiracy, that as one who has
enjoyed the blessings of our form of Government you might want
to aid us in our work, because we know that you were a Communist,
we know that you had a Communist card, we know of your activities
in the Communist Party and we feel that because of your experience
and the knowledge gained by your association with this subversive
movement that you can perhaps aid the American people in deter-
mining whether or not this Communist Party ought to be made il-
legal? You might indicate to us courses of procedure that would
enable us to recommend legislation. Why don't you tell us what you
know of the operations of the Communist Party ?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1503
Mr. Blankfort. I decline to enter into this discussion with the
eminent Congressman, sir. This is a question of entrapment and it
is an attempt to tear down my privileges under the fifth amendment.
You are not fair in asking this question.
Mr. Walter. I assure you it is not the purpose of anybody to entrap
you.
Mr. Blankfort. Yes, it is, sir. This is my privilege to think this.
Mr. Jackson. I would suggest that the witness be called to order.
Mr. Walter. Let him go. This is not an easy thing.
I feel that the witness ought to be given a certain latitude.
We were hopeful when you were selected as a witness to testify
that because of your vast experience you would be willing as an
American citizen to aid this committee instead of taking shelter in
the kind of a document that doesn't exist anywhere particularly in the
iron curtain countries. Why don't you come clean and tell us what
you know about it?
Mr. Blankfort. I decline to enter in this discussion with the emi-
nent Congressman.
Mr. Walter. That's all.
Mr. Blankfort. However, I do hope that this committee takes as
much interest in the people of the United States as they do in the peo-
ple of the Soviet Union and that has a chairman that votes against
the poll tax.
Mr. Wood. You declined to answer the questions, sir?
Mr. Blankfort. I did, sir.
Mr. Doyle. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Blankfort, have you ever served in the Armed
Forces of the United States?
Mr. Blankfort. I have not, sir.
Mr. Jackson. Would you so serve if required ?
Mr. Blankfort. I believe that the Constitution and the Bill of
Rights of our country are the inherent guards against depredations
which must be protected at all costs and I will defend them against
any foreign or external enemies.
Mr. Jackson. Would you take an oath of loyalty
Mr. Blankfort. Or internal enemies.
Mr. Jackson. Would you take an oath of loyalty to the United
States and to the Constitution as a condition of employment?
Mr. Blankfort. I believe, sir, that when a man's daily life and daily
actions are those of a good American, not by words alone but by deeds,
that for people to have to reemphasize their loyalty, as they did in
Germany, as they did in Italy, and as this committee is attempting
to have not loyalty to the people but loyalty to the committee, and if
you believe that this is not so I would like to read you a statement of
Karl Munclt, a former member of this committee.
Mr. Wood. You were asked a simple question.
Mr. Blankfort. I decline to answer that question on the basis of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Wood. Very well.
Mr. Jackson. I would advise you, Mr. Blankfort, that very few
good Americans whose records are unimpeachable have been called
1504 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
before this committee. Have you traveled abroad within the past
10 years?
Mr. Blankfort. I have been to the kind — do you mean a foreign
country ?
Mr. Jackson. Yes.
Mr. Blankfort. The foreign country that belongs to California,
Tijuana, Ensenada, and Rosarita Beach.
Mr. Jackson. You have not traveled abroad to Europe?
Mr. Blankfort. No; I haven't.
Mr. Jackson. Have you ever subscribed to the Chicago Tribune ?
Mr. Blankfort. I have read the Chicago Tribune. As a matter of
fact, I read about 30 or 40 newspapers weekly.
Mr. Jackson. Do those newspapers include the Communist Daily
Worker?
Mr. Blankfort. In 1857, Mr. Jackson, a man was convicted for
10 years
Mr. Jackson. I have asked you a question.
Mr. Blankfort. And I am going to answer it.
Mr. Jackson. You are going to answer the question "Yes" or "No."
I don't want a speech. I have heard all the speeches that you can
possibly deliver.
Mr. Blankfort. They have not had much effect upon you.
Mr. Jackson. They have not had much effect upon the American
people.
Mr. Wood. Gentlemen, will you please just confine your answers
Mr. Blankfort. I will refuse to answer that question on the grounds
of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Jackson. If you saw an act of sabotage being committed by a
Communist and you had knowledge of it, would you report it to the
Federal officials of this country or the FBI or the United States
marshal ?
Mr. Blankfort. I would even report an act of sabotage if I saw
you commit it.
Mr. Jackson. You are very unlikely to see me commit it.
Would you so report an act of sabotage which you saw being com-
mitted by a member of the Communist Party to the Federal Bureau
of Investigation or the United States Marshal?
Mr. Blankfort. This is a question of entrapment. I will not
answer any question having to do with the Communist Party on the
grounds of the fifth amendment. If the Congressman will be honest
and simplify the question and say will I report an act of sabotage
no matter who will do it, I will say "Yes, I will report an act of
sabotage no matter who will do it."
Mr. Jackson. Would you report an act of sabotage being commit-
ted by a member of the Communist Party ? That is the question.
Mr. Blankfort. This is again, I say, a question of entrapment and
I would refuse to answer it on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
I said I will report an act of sabotage committed by anybody if I do
see it.
Mr. Jackson. I want the record to show that the witness refuses to
answer "Yes" or "No" as to the question asked.
Mr. Blankfort. I refuse to' answer this question on the grounds
of the fifth amendment.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1505
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Blankfort, it is my personal opinion, that you
have been a member of the Communist Party as indicated by the
evidence in possession of this committee, and that in my personal
opinion the menace that you claim is posed by this committee is not
one-tenth as vital, not one-tenth as dangerous to the people of the
United States of America and to the freemen everywhere as your
continued intransigence in your support of Communist pholisophy.
Mr. Blankfort. When the American people fear not to sign the
Declaration of Independence then I will say that this committee no
longer is potent.
Mr. Jackson. That's all.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter, do you have any questions?
Mr. Potter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Counsel, any further questions?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused from
further attendance that you know of ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. So ordered.
Mr. Blankfort. Thank you very much for permitting me to express
some of my thoughts.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Howland Chamberlin.
Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn, sir.
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you will give this sub-
committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Chamberlin. I do.
Mr. Wood. Are you represented here by counsel ?
Mr. Chamberlin. Yes, I am.
Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record.
Mr. Margolis. My name is Ben Margolis, Los Angeles, Calif.
TESTIMONY OF HOWLAND CHAMBERLIN, ACCOMPANIED BY
HIS COUNSEL, BEN MARGOLIS
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ?
Mr. Chamberlin. Before I answer the questions as directed to me
by Mr. Tavenner, I make a request to read a statement which I think
is pertinent to my appearance before this committee.
Mr. Wood. Your counsel is already familiar with the rules of this
committee. If you have a statement you would like to submit to the
committee in advance of your testimony we will be glad to receive it,
sir. But reading of statements is not permitted.
Mr. Chamberlin. I understand the answer to this question, Mr.
Chairman, but I would like to point out that in sitting in the sessions
yesterday there were statements read by witnesses where there was
no objection made and I would like to have equal treatment.
Mr. Wood. There are no statements in advance of testimony read
by any witness. If you desire to submit a statement we would be glad
to accept it and have it in the record. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, what is your name, please, sir ?
Mr. Chamberlin. I am proud of my American heritage and my
Mayflower ancestry. My name is Howland Chamberlin.
1506 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Wood. It would expedite the work of the committee consider-
ably if you would refrain from making unnecessary remarks and an-
swer the questions directly that are asked you, and the committee will
be very appreciative if you will do that.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Chamberlin ?
Mr. Chamberlin. I was born on August 2, 1911, in New York City.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational training?
Mr. Chamberlin. My educational training has been in the public
and elementary and high schools both in New York City and Cali-
fornia. After completion of high school I entered a 2-year course in
a school of the theater.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your present occupation ?
Mr. Chamberlin. My present occupation is an actor, and I find it
deeply repugnant and profoundly un-American to be smeared, black-
listed, and strangled economically by my presence before this com-
mittee.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Chamberlin, your presence before this committee is
the best form that I know of for you to relieve yourself of any smear
or blacklist.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chamberlin, the committee is in possession of
information that you registered as a member of the Communist Party
for the 1938 election, and I would like to give you an opportunity to
explain that and state whether or not it is true, or to give such explana-
tion as you desire to make of it.
Mr. Chamberlin. It is my opinion that this committee is invading
the rights of a person's personal political views, and, therefore, I must
point out in my answer to this question that it neither confirms nor
denies guilt in this question, and I invoke my right and my privilege
in order not to testify against myself the use of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information that
you are or have been a member of the Communist Party. The com-
mittee is investigating the extent of infiltration of communism into the
moving-picture industry and in order to conduct that investigation
it is necessary to know these facts. Is it true or not that you are a
member of the Communist Party or have been ?
Mr. Chamberlin. Mr. Tavenner, I believe you are an enlightened
person and can understand
Mr. Wood. Will you please
Mr. Chamberlin (continuing). Answers as I understand the ques-
tion
Mr. Wood. Just a moment. Just a moment, will you, please.
Mr. Chamberlin. I stand on the grounds prevously stated.
Mr. Wood. Will you please cease just a moment when I interrupt
you ? This is an orderly procedure. We are entitled to at least the
courtesy of at least a reply to the questions»we are asking here. Will
you please spare us your opinion as to the standing, intelligence,
veracity, moral character of members of this committee and its staif ,
and answer the questions that are directed to you, because we are not
concerned at all about your opinions of us.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chamberlin, you have stated that you are an
actor by profession. How long have you been engaged in the prac-
tice of your profession in Hollywood ?
Mr. Chamberlin. I have engaged — I have been engaged as a pro-
fessional actor in Hollywood and its environs since 1936.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1507
Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time what are some of the
principal plays or productions which you have taken part in in Holly-
wood ?
Mr. Chamberlin. Since there are over a hundred plays that I have
participated in as an actor, I find it rather difficult to single out any
one of them. I presume that you are interested in the motion-picture
industry, and that is more recent. It is easier to recall more specifi-
cally some of the answers which I assume you want.
The first motion picture that I played in as an actor was The Best
Years of Our Lives, which I am very proud to have been associated
with, and I wish to make the comment that one of the creative artists
involved in the making of this picture said not too long ago that —
Due to the atmosphere of the country at the present, I would be unable to
make such a picture today.
I charge that this committee is responsible in helping create this kind
of an atmosphere which creates censorship.
Mr. Wood. Again, I call your attention to the fact that the com-
mittee is not concerned about your opinion of it, so please spare us
that. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Chamberlin. There have been — in order to continue the an-
swer, there have been some 20 motion pictures that I have participated
in. The present one that is showing in the moving-picture houses
of the country is Pickup. There have been a number of television
pictures that I have performed in, as well.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was the director in the two plays that you have
mentioned, the motion pictures you mentioned?
Mr. Chamberlin. The director of The Best Years of Our Lives
was Mr. William Wyler. The director of Pickup was Mr. Hugo Huss.
Mr. Tavenner. Who were the producers of those pictures?
Mr. Chamberlin. I believe in the former one, Mr. Samuel Goldwyn
was the producer, and the latter picture, Mr. Hugo Huss also pro-
duced it.
Mr. Tavenner. Who employed you in connection with those two
pictures?
Mr. Chamberlin. The procedure of employment in the motion-
picture industry is through the actor's agent, together with the studio
or the producing company which is responsible for that particular
picture.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was your agent in those two instances?
Mr. Chamberlin. Bender & Ward Agency.
Mr. Tavenner. In both instances?
Mr. Chamberlin. Yes, in both instances.
Mr. Tavenner. Was any inquiry made of you regarding your Com-
munist Party or alleged Communist Party affiliations prior to your
employment in those pictures?
Mr. Chamberlin. It seems to me that this is a derivative of the
original question of this sort, and since I have stood on the fifth
amendment, I stand so on this question, as well.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter, any questions?
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. No questions.
81595 — 51 — pt. 4 7
1508 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ?
Mr. Jackson. No questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter?
Mr. Potter. From your testimony, I assume that it is your conten-
tion that the Communist Party is a political party rather than an
international conspiracy ; do you care to comment on that assumption
I have from your testimony ?
Mr. Chamberlin. I cannot help the assumption of the Congress-
men of this committee taken regarding to any statement that I may
make. I would be very happy to express my personal beliefs if there
was not an atmosphere of repression and a feeling of persecution and,
therefore, I must stand on the grounds similarly stated.
Mr. Potter. I wish to inform the witness that any distasteful at-
mosphere that might be present is caused by the witness.
Mr. Chamberlin. That is merely a matter of opinion.
Mr. Potter. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Any further questions, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. Any reason wThy the witness shouldn't be excused from;
further attendance on this committee ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. So ordered. Who will you call next?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Leo Townsend.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Townsend, will you hold up your right hand and
be sworn, sir. Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this sub-
committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Mr. Townsend. I do.
Mr. Wood. Have a seat. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Town-
send ?
Mr. Townsend. I have been represented by counsel, who has advised
me of my legal rights here. I don't feel the need of counsel here
today.
Mr. Wood. If you determine during the course of your examination
that you do, you are at liberty to call him.
TESTIMONY OF LEO TOWNSEND
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir?
Mr. Townsend. My name is Leo Townsend.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Townsend ?
Mr. Townsend. I was born in Faribault, Minn., on May 11, 1908.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession or occupation?
Mr. Townsend. I am presently occupied as a screen writer.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly to the committee what your
educational training has been for your profession?
Mr. Townsend. I was educated in a parochial and public schools
of Faribault. I attended the University of Minnesota for 2 years.
I left there in 1930 because the depression was on. I could no longer
support myself at the university. I found a job in New York with a
magazine publishing company ; was transferred by that company to
Hollywood in 1935; remained with it until 1938, when I left to become
a radio writer. I was a radio writer from 1938 until 1941, when I
entered the motion-picture field, where I have been since.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1509
Mr. Tavenner. Since you have entered upon the motion-picture
field, what has been your employment and with whom?
Mr. Townsend. I have been employed by various studios. Some
of the films on which I have screen credit — let me see — at Eagle Lion
Studio, for instance, a picture called Port of New York; at Allied
Artists, a picture called Southside 1-1000; at Universal, a picture
called It Started With Eve; at Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, a picture
called Seven Sweethearts ; also at Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer a film called
The Black Hand, and at Warner Bros, a film called Night and Day.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Townsend, the committee, in the course of its
investigation, obtained information that you at one time were a mem-
ber of the Communist Party. Is that true or not?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, that is true.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you join the Communist Party?
Mr. Townsend. I joined the Communist Party at the beginning
of the year 1943.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a member?
Mr. Townsend. At that time I remained a member until early in
February 1944 when I entered Government service.
Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by Government service ?
Mr. Townsend. I was with the Office of Strategic Services during
the war for a period of some months.
(At this time Representative John S. Wood left the room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Townsend. I am not.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you sever your connection with the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Townsend. In 1948.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, I would like to go back to the beginning of
your experience as a member of the Communist Party and have you
to tell this committee all that you can regarding your participation,
your activities and knowledge you obtained of the Communist Party
matters while a member to aid this committee in this investigation
which is now being conducted.
Mr. Townsend. Before I go into that I wonder if I may say, in
answer to a previous question about my employment, that I am
presently employed at Warner Bros, studio as a screen writer. When
I received my subpena last week I went to the heads of the studio,
told them I had a subpena, told them what I had planned to do here,
that I was going to testify before the committee. They told me that
my testimony would in no way affect my employment at their studio.
Mr. Walter. This committee has hoped that would be the position
taken by various studios.
Mr. Townsend. This was the position taken by Warner Bros. I
don't know about the position of the other studios at all, but I am
proud to say that Warner Bros, took this position.
Mr..WALTER. We don't feel that a man should be penalized for aid-
ing the committee directed by the Congress of the United States to
perform certain services. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. That decision which you have mentioned was based
upon a bona fide statement by you of your Communist Party
activities
Mr. Townsend. That's right.
1510 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. And the fact that you had sometime back com-
pletely and finally severed your connection with the Communist
Party?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, I would like for you to go back to the begin-
ning of your experience in the Communist Party. Will you tell the
committee the circumstances under which you became a member.
Mr. Townsend. I should probably begin by saying that in 1943 —
during my lifetime there have been two world wars and one major
depression. I wondered if there were ways to cure this situation.
Also, I felt that in our own country there was social inequity, starva-
tion amidst plenty in certain cases. I wanted to do something about
this. I talked with other writers. I found other people sharing my
feelings.
Eventually I discovered that some of these people were members
of the Communist Party. They asked me to subscribe to the party
newspaper, the People's World. I looked at it, found its editorial
policies at that time more or less parallel to the editorial policies of,
let's say, the Los Angeles Times. The drive was to win the war. We
were at that time allies with the Soviet Union against Germany. I
subscribed to the People's World. I was then asked if I would at-
tend a discussion meeting to be conducted by John Howard Lawson.
I agreed to attend this meeting, and this meeting turned out to be a
Communist recruiting meeting. My wife and I attended.
Mr. Lawson spoke. A number of people who were there signed
the cards, including my wife and I, and I must say parenthetically
that my wife has given a statement to this committee outlining her
activities within the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. And it was at that meeting, conducted by John
Howard Lawson, at which you signed your application to become a
member of the party ?
Mr. Townsend. That is true ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, do you recall where that meeting was held?
Mr. Townsend. It was held on Wetherly Drive in Hollywood at the
home of a writer named Waldo Salt.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Waldo Salt present?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, he was present there. I remember no others
there outside of Mr. Lawson and my wife and myself.
Mr. Tavenner. After you were accepted as a member of the party,
were you assigned to any particular unit or cell of the party ?
Mr. Townsend. I was told at that meeting that I would be phoned
within the next few days and given an address of the home of my first
party meeting. I was phoned several days latter by a woman whom
I didn't know named Marjorie MacGresor. She gave me an address,
which was either in Beverly Hills or Westwood. This was to be the
address of a home of the first party meeting. <
Mr. Tavenner. Did you later learn that she was a member of this
particular cell? .
Mr. Townsend. She was not a member of that particular cell. 1
was told she was a member of the Communist Party. I have no direct
knowledge that she was. I have learned later that she was the wife
of a screen writer named Arnold Manoff. I never saw her in a party
meeting.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1511
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not she is the same person
that is also know as Marjorie Potts?
Mr. Townsend. No, sir ; I don't know that.
Mr. Tavenner. Did this cell to which you were assigned have a
name ?
Mr. Townsend. As far as I recall, it did not.
Mr. Tavenner. At that time what was the general character of the
membership ?
Mr. Townsend. Mainly screen writers' wives — mainly screen writ-
ers, I would say.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the names of those who were mem-
bers of the group to which you were first assigned ?
Mr. Towtnsend. Before I name these names I would like to preface
this with a very brief remark. I feel that the purpose of this com-
mittee is an investigative one so that the Congress of the United States
may intelligently legislate in the field of national security. As a loyal
American, interested in that security, I feel I must place in the hands
of this committee whatever information I have.
Also I feel that since the American Communist Party in the last 4
years hasn't openly and honestly stated its aims and its goals and has
evaded the issue of its allegiance to the Soviet Union, I think that the
American people have a right to know which people have not yet made
up their minds.
Also, I want to say this, that I don't suppose that out of all the
people I knew during my period of membership in the party there
were more than, let's say, five or six who could conceivably commit an
act of violence against the United States. But I don't know which
five or six those might be and if I remain silent now to protect the
people who were misled I must share the responsibility in time of
crisis for the acts of those who may commit violence.
I feel, also, that some of these people may now be out of the party.
If so I am sure they will be given an opportunity equal to mine to
state their position.
In this first branch, the people I remember were Harold Buchman,
Robert Rossen, Nicholas Bel a, Fred and Marie Rinaldo, John Wexley,
and Maurice Rapf.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the last name?
Mr. Towtnsend. Rapf, R-a-p-f.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you associate with those persons in
Communist Party work ?
Mr. Townsend. I was in that branch until shortly before I joined
the Office of Strategic Services in February of 1944.
Mr. Tavenner. You referred to a person by the name of John Wex-
ley. Was he a screen writer ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you identify him a little further. I believe
his name has not been mentioned before now.
Mr. Townsend. John Wexley is a screen writer and playwright. I
believe he wrote the play The Last Mile and I believe he wrote the play
They Shall Not Die. Other than that I don't know his credits.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe I was mistaken in stating that his name
had not been mentioned because I recall now, since my recollection has
been refreshed, that he was definitely mentioned by Mr. Collins in his
testimony.
1512 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
You referred to the fact that you entered into the service of the
OSS. Will you explain to the committee the circumstances relating
to that employment I
Mr. Townsend. Yes. I had tried to enter the armed services, the
Air Force and the Navy; had been rejected by both. I was ap-
proached by someone to apply for entrance in the Office of Strategic
Services. They were looking for writers who were to go overseas
with combat troops. I applied for the OSS and within a few weeks
was notified that I was accepted. I automatically left the Communist
Party before going into the service. I believe it was the policy of the
party at that time that anyone in the armed services had automati-
cally left the party before he entered the service.
I remained in the OSS from February of 1944 until the 1st of July
of the same year. My overseas orders were canceled the morning I
was to sail. I never found out the reason why but I have reason to
suspect now that the reasons were political, that my former member-
ship in the party had been ascertained through screening of some
kind. I don't know this to be a fact.
I was asked by the OSS to serve in its New York office and told they
would see if they could clear my overseas duty. I waited several
months, realized that I probably would not get a chance to go over-
seas. I had no function in the New York office and I asked for my
release, was granted it and I returned to Hollywood.
Mr. Tavenner. After you returned to Hollywood was any effort
made to have you reassociated with the Communist Party?
Mr. Townsend. Yes. During the period in OSS I had certain
minor qualms about the party, but by the time I had returned to Holly-
wood it had become the Communist Political Association.
I was assured that its main drive was, in addition to the winning of
the war, the reelection of Franklin Roosevelt. I was for both of these
things. I reaffiliated with the Communist Political Association. This
was, I imagine, in July of 1944.
Mr. Tavenner. Did any one contact you with reference to rejoin-
ing the Communist Party?
Mr. Townsend. Yes. A writer named Robert Lees.
Mr. Tavenner. What is the name ?
Mr. Townsend. Lees, L-e-e-s.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you identify him a little further, please.
Mr. Townsend. He is a screen writer. I believe he has previously
appeared before this committee.
Air. Tavenner. Is the spelling L-e-e-s?
Mr. Towtnsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. I misunderstood you. As a result of that conference
did you realign yourself with the Communist Party?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, I did. With the Communist Political Asso-
ciation.
Mr. Tavenner. To what group were you assigned at that time?
Mr. Townsend. Well, one was a group in what was called the north-
west section, I believe. One of the writers' groups, I think there were
probably four or maybe five writers' groups within this section
arranged geographically.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state the names of the writers who are
members of your group.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1513
Mr. Townsend. I will have to — I was in that group — let me preface
this— from July 1945 until, I think, the summer of — July 1944 to the
summer of 1945, transferred to another branch. I may have been in
three branches between July 1944 and 1948, when I left the party. So
I would have to be vague about which people were in which branch.
I simply will have to tell you the names I recall in these several
branches. I have already mentioned Robert Lees. There was Henry
Myers
Mr. Tavenner. Henry Myers? Let me ask you to identify those
people a little more fully with regard to their Communist Party
membership and activity, and their occupation as you give their
names.
Mr. Townsend. Well. Heniy Myers was a screen writer. As to his
Communist identity, I don't know except that he was in the branch
with me. I don't recall him serving as an officer of any kind. Jay
and Sondra Gorney were also in this branch, or one of the others. Mr.
Gorney was a song writer. There was Morris Carnovsky and Phoebe
Brand, who was his wife.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe, for the sake of accuracy, it would be well
to spell these names as you give them so there will be no mistake or
misunderstanding about them.
(At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson left the room.)
Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of Jay Gorney.
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Is the spelling G-o-r-n-e-y?
Mr. Townsend. That's true ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. The first name is J-a-y, I believe ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Sondra Gorney, his wife, is S-o-n-d-r-a?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. How does Mr. Myers spell his name ?
Mr. Townsend. I believe it is M-e-y-e-r-s.4
Mr. Tavenner. Then you mentioned Morris Carnovsky. Will you
spell the name, please?
Mr. Townsend. That is C-a-r-n-o-v-s-k-y.
Mr. Tavenner. The first name is spelled how?
Mr. Townsend. M-o-r-r-i-s. I'm quite sure.
Mr. Tavenner. M-o-r-r-i-s?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I think you named another person.
Mr. Townsend. I named Phoebe Brand, who was Mr. Carnovsky's
wife.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell that name, please?
Mr. Townsend. The first name is P-h-o-e-b-e and the last name is
B-r-a-n-d.
Mr. Tavenner. All right. If you will proceed, please.
Mr. Townsend. There was Abe and Sylvia Polonsky. That is
spelled P-o-l-o-n-s-k-y, I believe. There was John Weber, W-e-b-e-r,
who was a writer's agent at that time.
(At this point Representative John S. Wood returned to the room.)
Mr. Townsend. There were Paul and Sylvia Jarrico, J-a-r-r-i-c-o ;
there was Joseph Losey, L-o-s-e-y.
4 Name should be Henry Myers.
1514 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Will you identify him further, please.
Mr. Townsend. He is a film director.
Mr. Tavenner. A film direcor ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes ; and his wife Louise Losey. She may well be
out of the party at this time. He may be, too ; I don't know. I hope
they have a chance to state their position if they are. There was a
writer named Ben Bengal, B-e-n-g-a-1, and an actress named Karen
Morley. These are the names that I remember as members of those
various branches.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where Karen Morley is now ?
Mr. Townsend. No, sir; I do not.
(At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the
room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Now will you proceed with the naming of others
that you can recall.
Mr. Townsend. Those are the names that I recall as members of
these particular branches.
Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned a little earlier in your testimony the
name of Nicholas Bela, who was one of those members of the first
group to which you were assigned upon joining the Communist
Party. Will you identify that individual more fully.
Mr. Townsend. I don't know what his occupation was. He was
not, to my knowledge, a screen writer. I did attend a large meet-
ing at his home in Beverly Hills, at which there were some 40 to 50
people present. I was told that this comprised most of the Com-
munist screen writers within the Screen Writers' Guild. This was
shortly after I had joined the party, possibly in the summer or spring
of 1943.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Ring Larclner, Jr. ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes. I don't believe I was ever in a party branch
with Mr. Lardner.
Mr. Tavenner. The first meeting which you described as having oc-
curred when you received the telephone message from Marjorie
MacGregor was held at what place, if you recall ?
Mr. Townsend. At the home of Harold Buchman.
Mr. Tavenner. Harold Buchman ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What position did Harold Buchman have in the
industry ?
Mr. Townsend. Harold Buchman was a screen writer.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you assigned to any other branches of the
Communist Party other than those you have already described?
Mr. Townsend. As I mentioned before, I was in this branch of the
Communist Political Association from July of 1944 until the summer
of 1945, when the Duclos letter arrived and the political association
very shortly became once more the Communist Party. You have un-
doubtedly heard a lot about the Duclos letter here?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; the committee has heard a lot about it but will
you just state in a general way what was involved with the Duclos
letter?
Mr. Townsend. Well, the war now was over. Evidently, as far as
the Soviet Union was concerned, it and the United States were no
longer allies. I don't believe we knew that here at the time.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE' INDUSTRY 1515
Duclos was a French Communist leader who expressed, I am sure,
the direction of the party leadership in Moscow. He denounced the
American leadership of Earl Browder for harboring the notion that
capitalism and communism could exist peacefully in one world. This
happened to be the notion that the Soviet Union fostered itself not
more than a year or two before that.
Now, of course, with the war over, when they no longer needed us,
this became a false premise. We in the branches were told, were
asked to vote, and we were given copies of the Duclos letter, of
Browder's rebuttal, and then the rebuttal of Browder by the national
executive Communist leadership in New York, all of whom seemed
to agree suddenly with Mr. Duclos. This seemed a little strange to
me at the time. We in the branches were asked to discuss this and
vote on the ouster of Mr. Browder.
Well, we did vote. You see, the party had a phrase called demo-
cratic centralism. This means, according to the party, that all major
decisions actually start from the bottom, from the rank and file, and
sift up to the top, to the party leadership, which then puts this
directive of the rank and file into action. In actuality the reverse
was true. The directives came from the top, which I supposed to be
in the New York headquarters, or which I supposed there is a level
above that in Moscow. The directives sift down to the rank and file
from various levels so that the phrase "democratic centralism" actually
had no meaning.
There was plenty of centralism but no democracy.
We voted on this. While we were in the process of voting the fact
had already been accomplished. Mr. Browder had already been
ousted. I don't know what they did with our votes.
Mr. Tavenner. As a result of the Duclos letter there was a con-
siderable amount of consternation within the membership of the Com-
munist Party in Hollywood, was there not?
Mr. Townsend. There was, indeed. It took the party here by
complete surprise. People didn't believe it at first, until they were
shown the Duclos letter, until they realized that the party directive
was to support Duclos. Mr. Browder, who had been a party hero up
until, say, a late hour on a certain evening, became an arch villain
early the next morning. This has happened in other cases, too, where
people in the party, the hero-villain role seems to be quite inter-
changeable.
Mr. Tavenner. Were there consequently meetings of the Commu-
nist Party in Hollywood held in an effort to whip the membership
into the same line of thinking ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes. We met quite often. Communists meet
pretty often under normal circumstances. During this period it
seemed to me there were continuous meetings. I believe we all thought
that we were discussing this democratically. We didn't realize that
all our—that we were wasting our time and effort because it had all
been decided by the top leadership anyway.
Mr. Tavenner. Who took the leadership in those discussions?
Mr. Townsend. Well, I am sure it must have been John Howard
Lawson who was actually the leader of that section of the Communist
Party.
1516 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall where the specific meetings were
held in which this subject was discussed?
Mr. Townsend. Well, I am sure that some of them were held at
my home. They were held at the homes of members of the branch.
It would be at the homes of some of these other people whom I have
named. I can remember specifically only that some were held at my
home.
Mr. Tavenner. I am going to ask you at this time if you can
recall the names of any other persons known to you to be members
of the Communist Party.
Mr. Townsend. I had met certain people who were Communist
Party functionaries. I had met a few people in so-called fraction
meetings of the Screen Writers' Guild, people whom I hadn't met
within any of my several branches.
The party functionaries I met ; there was a girl named Elizabeth
Leach, I believe that is L-e-a-c-h, I'm not sure.1 Her husband, Charles
Glenn
Mr. Tavenner. G-1-e-n-n- ?
Mr. Townsend. G-1-e-n-n. I believe he was at one time connected
with the People's World. I think at the time I saw him in fraction
meetings he had a functionary paid position with the Communist
Party.
There was a man named John Stapp, S-t-a-p-p, who seemed to be
the contact between the downtown or county organization and the
so-called Hollywood section. He would sometimes appear at fraction
meetings of writers within the guild. These fraction meetings were
held, as a rule, before any important matter was to come up before the
entire membership of the Screen Writers' Guild. I remember specifi-
cally election periods. We would meet in a fraction for the purposes
of electioneering purposes, of getting as many Communists on the
board of the guild as possible for the purpose of campaigning among^
non-Communists.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, I want to ask you a little more in detail about
those fraction meetings and the work within the various guilds at a
later point in your testimony. I believe it would be a little clearer
for our present purposes now to go into those matters in detail.
Mr. Townsend. All right.
Mr. Tavenner. You were giving us the names of Communist Party
functionaries.
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Carl Winter?
Mr. Townsend. Yes. Not acquainted, but he was present at the
meeting I have previously mentioned at the home of Nicholas Bela in
the summer of 1 943. I believe at that time he was the county chairman
of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, were there other functionaries of the party
whose names you can give us ?
Mr. Townsend. I met a man named Max Silver. I don't know what
his party connection was; a man named Nemmy Sparks who was -
Mr. Tavenner. What is the spelling of Nemmy?
Mr. Townsend. N-e-m-m-y. He was the county chairman, I be-
lieve. Whether he followed Carl Winter directly or not, I don't recall.
1 In some instances, referred to as Elizabeth Leech Glenn.
COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1517
Mr. Tavexxer. You also spoke of having had occasion to meet
various people in fraction meetings. I wonder if you can give us the
names now at this time of persons whom you met in fraction meetings
whose names you have not previously mentioned.
Mr. Towxsexd. Yes. I was about to say that most of the names
whom I previously mentioned who were screen writers would be pres-
ent at these fraction meetings: in addition to that I recall a writer
named Alvah Bessie, B-e-s-s-i-e.
Mr. Tavexxer. The first name is A-1-v-a-h?
Mr. Towxsexd. Yes; and a writer named Arnold Manoff,
M-a-n-o-f-f, and a writer named Edward Huebsch, which is spelled
H-u-e-b-s-c-h.
Mr. Tavexxer. H-u-e-b-s-c-h?
Mr. Towxsexd. That's right.
Mr. Tavexxer. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of
Mortimer Offner?
Mr. Towxsexd. Yes; I was. At one time shortly before I left
the Communist Party — I think this must have been late in 1947, in
the early part of 1948, I was serving as an officer of the branch I
was in at that time. I was financial director. My duty was to collect
dues and assessments from the members of the branch and to turn
them over to, I believe the title was, the section financial director,
and this section financial director was Mr. Offner. I turned the
money over to him. Where it went from there I don't know. I
suppose to the county office and then, I suppose, from there to the
national office.
Mr. Tavexxer. Were you acquainted with Larry Parks?
Mr. Towxsexd. Larry Parks I recall at one meeting of one branch,
perhaps in 1945. He may have attended twice. I think it was once,
and I never saw him again within the party.
Mr. Tavexxer. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of
Joy Pepper?
Mr. Towxsexd. Yes : I was. The financial directors of the branches
met with the sectional financial director to turn over the dues they
had collected. I think I met — this was a quarterly assignment. I
think I met twice with this group at the home of Joy Pepper in
Hollywood.
Mr. Tavexxer. Were you acquainted with Mike Wilson?
Mr. Towxsexd. Not within — he was not in a branch with me.
Mr. Tavexxer. Were you acquainted with Sidney Benson?
Mr. Towxsexd. Yes ; in my last branch, Sidney Benson appeared.
There was some controversy within the branch, argument about the
Communist Party. Some of us felt that it was not an American -
party. Others felt that it was. Sidney Benson was the functionary
called in to defeat those of us who held this, what they considered
false position. Anti-Soviet position it was called, and Mr. Benson
hammered us over the head for a whole evening, and I didn't see
him again at any party meeting.
Mr. Tavexxer. Were you acquainted wth Pauline Lauber?
Mr. Towxsexd. I could not say for sure that she was in a branch
with me. I am acquainted with Pauline Lauber; yes.
Mr. Tavexxer. Was she a member of the Communist Party, to your
knowledge ?
1518 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Townsend. I suppose she was, but under oath I cannot say that
she was. I have
Mr. Tavenner. Now, if you are in doubt, I would rather for you
not to say
Mr. Townsend. Thank you.
Mr. Tavenner (continuing) . That you suppose she is. If you have
no knowledge of your own that an individual is a member of the Com-
munist Party, I would rather for you to state that you do not have
that knowledge.
Mr. Townsend. I certainly will not name anyone that I do not know
definitely to be a member of the party.
Mr. Tavenner. The other persons to whom you have referred up
until the present time, are they persons known to you to be members
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Townsend. You mean the people
Mr. Tavenner. The others that you have named.
Mr. Townsend. Are they known to me to be members of the party
at the present time, you mean ?
Mr. Tavenner. No ; to have been members of the Communist Party.
Mr. Townsend. Yes, yes. Yes, sir; they were.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Meta Reis Rosenberg?
Mr. Townsend. Again, she may have been in a branch. I don't
think so. I know her. I don't think that she was in a party branch
with me.
Mr. Tavenner. She has testified before the committee and has ad-
mitted that she was formerly a member and is no longer associated
with the Communist Party
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner (continuing). But I do not recall what branch of the
party.
Now, have you held any position, other than that of financial direc-
tor, that you mentioned, in the Communist Party %
Mr. Townsend. Yes. During, I think, 1944—1 mean, after my re-
turn from the OSS, during that period and 1945 I held the position of
literature director in my branch.
Mr. Tavenner. What were your duties as literature director ?
Mr. Townsend. My duties were to go to the Communist book store
between meetings, pick up the current pamphlets and leaflets which
had been sent there by the national office in New York, take them to
the next meeting, distribute them, sell them, push them. This book
store was called the Lincoln Book Shop on Highland Avenue in Holly-
wood. I went there, identified myself as the literature director of
this certain branch, was taken by the proprietor to the back room. It
wasn't a locked back room, nothing that secretive about it, simply
partitioned, but in the back room they had the boxes of pamphlets,
leaflets, books, whatever the national party was pushing at the time
came out in those various forms. This man would suggest to me what
I should take. I would then take this material to the branch meet-
ings, sell them to the members. Now, as I say, these pamphlets and
leaflets conformed directly to the party's line at the moment.
For example, in 1944 and early— most or half of 1945, the party
was pushing Earl Browder's Victory and After. This was the book
which stated that the goals of the United States and the Soviet Union
were largely the same ; that we could be allies not only in war but in
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1519
peace, and that capitalism and communism could exist peacefully in
one world. Pamphlets. This book was pushed excessively. We were
to not only buy copies of it, ourselves, but see that it was distributed
largely in the community.
Also, there was the open-the-second-front drive. I am trying
to say that these things are all tied in with the national party direc-
tives so that we, as a branch, through the medium of the party litera-
ture, could then carry out the party directive. I am trying to say that
we acted as directed.
Mr. Tavenner. You did what?
Mr. Townsend. We acted as directed by the party headquarters.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, the programs that you held in your Commu-
nist Party meetings where the Communist Party line was discussed
related to certain definite subjects frequently?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, of course. •
Mr. Tavenner. Well, when you went to the book shop to obtain the
literature which was to be used in subsequent meetings, was that litera-
ture picked out for you and was it designated for you, or did you,
yourself, have to select that material which conformed to the Commu-
nist Party line that was then being discussed?
Mr. Townsend. It had been selected for me by the proprietor of the
book shop. If I wanted something else in addition to this, I was at
liberty to take it, but there was always a suggestion by the proprietor
of the book shop what is good this week.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you inform the head of the book shop as to
the character of the material you wanted or did he tell you what was
in conformity with the line which was being discussed ?
Mr. Townsend. He told me.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, that indicates, then, a preconceived plan, an
organized plan by which the pro-Communist line was to be imparted
to the membership at your meetings and through the literature \
Mr. Townsend. Oh. definitely. I think the literature played a very
important part from the viewpoint of the national headquarters of
the party. This was one of the weapons to keep the membership in
line.
(At this time Eepresentative Charles E. Potter left the hearing
room. )
Mr. Tavenner. Then that indicates that the Communist Party book
shop played a very important function in imparting the Communist
Party line at the Communist Party meetings.
Mr. Townsend. Yes: certainly it did.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was the head of the Communist Party book
shop, I believe you said the Lincoln
Mr. Townsend. Lincoln Book Shop.
Mr. Tavenner. Book Shop ?
Mr. Townsend. I am sorry, I remember him only as a man named
Jack.
Mr. Tavenner. Were there other Communist Party book shops in
Los Angeles, to your knowledge, at that time?
Mr. Townsend. I was told there was one on Seventh Street, I be-
lieve, called the Progressive Book Shop. Other than that, I do not
know.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, did you hold any other positions within the
Communist Party?
1520 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Townsend. No: the literature director position and that of
financial director.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, when you were financial director did you have
the responsibility of collecting dues of the members?
Mr. Townsend. I did ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. When special assessments were made, did you have
anything to do with that phase of the work ?
Mr. Townsend. At the time I was financial director, I don't recall
any particular special assessment. I remember that at a period shortly
before that there was a drive for a sum — I think $60,000 for some
emergency. This was to go back to New York. How this was met, I
don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you remember what that emergency was?
Mr. Townsend. I'm sorry, I don't. I believe it was in 1946. I can't
relate it at the moment to the political climate of that particular time.
I do remember that in order to raise it I was told that some members
of the party here were mortgaging their homes and turning over the
mortgage money for this fund.
I didn't mortgage my home. I have only heard this. Again, I want
to make sure that this was something I simply heard. I don't know
this to be a fact.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether it had anything to do with
the Far East situation or any work that was being done by the Com-
munist Party in the Far East ?
Mr. Townsend. I would think not. I am not sure. It was money
needed directly by the party in New York. I don't recall whether
there was any defense of the party at that time, money needed for
that. I ni sorry I don't recall what this money was needed for.
Mr. Wood. I believe at this point the committee will take a recess
for 20 minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
(At this point Representative Charles E. Potter returned to the
hearing room.)
Mr. Wood. We will have order. Mr. Counsel, are you ready to
proceed ?
1 Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Will the witness return to the stand.
Mr. Wood. Will the witness return to the stand, please.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Townsend, at the time of the recess you were
telling us about the performance of your duties as financial director
of your particular unit of the Communist Party. Was your work
confined to that of collection of dues?
Mr. Townsend. Yes; my work was confined to the collection of dues
and assessments from the members of this particular branch.
Mr. Tavenner. What were the dues and assessments?
Mr. Townsend. The dues, as I recall, were rather nominal ; perhaps
a dollar a month. The assessments were on a percentage basis, a per-
centage of salary. Whether it was 3 or 4 percent after the agent's
commission was deducted — I am speaking now of writers — I am not.
sure. I know that between 1943, through f 946, I paid assessments of
from $20 to $80 per quarter, depending upon my income. I also sup-
ported the party press with subscriptions and contributions amount-
ing to about $50 a year. I supported various other organizations in
1943 to the amount of about $400, organizations such as the Council
of American-Soviet Friendship, Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Commit-
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE! INDUSTRY 1521
tee, and the Hollywood Democratic Committee. In 1944 I have a
notation of a total of $200, and an organization to which I con-
tributed $5 a month during that period was the People's Educational
Association. In 1945 I have a notation of $250, partly to People's
Educational Association, partly to the Hollywood Independent Citi-
zens Committee. In 1946 I have a notation of $500, mainly to the same
organizations. This was in addition to my party dues and assess-
ments.
Mr. Tavenner. Those items, you say, were in addition to the dues
and assessments?
Mr. Towxsend. Yes. Now, when I was financial director during
1947— the latter part of 1947 and the first half of 1948, I would say,
most of the high-salaried writers by that time were not employed, so
I never collected a large amount of dues or assessments. I think in
these two meetings I had with the section financial director in which I
turned over money, I don't think at either time I turned over in excess
of $200.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, you spoke of an item of $500 —
Mr. Townsend. That was
Mr. Tavenner. Contributed by you personally to certain organiza-
tions.
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the type of organizations to which
you
Mr. Townsend. Those which I have read to you.
Mr. Tavenner. What instructions did you receive, if any, from the
leadership in the Communist Party as to your activity in outside
organizations?
Mr. Townsend. We were all asked or directed, let me say, to work
in what was called a mass organization, whether that be the Screen
Writers' Guild, whether it be the Independent Citizens Committee
which is now the Arts, Sciences, and Professions Council — we were
asked to enter some organization and to work in that organization.
Mi-. Tavenner. In other words, your work in those organizations
constituted pa it of your assignment
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. As a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Townsend. That's right.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Screen Writers' Guild?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, I was.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe your activity in the Screen Writ-
ers' Guild.
Mr. Townsend. From the Communist
Mr. Tavenner. While n member.
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. From the standpoint of your membership in the
Communist Party.
Mr. Townsend. Well, I attended fraction meetings of the writers
within the guild whenever an issue was coming before the membership
of the guild, whenever an important election was coming up. I, my-
self, served on the board of the guild in 1946 and 1947, I believe, up
until the guild elections in 1947. At that time— I must say in my
opinion that the Communist minority never controlled the Screen
Writers' Guild. The vast majority of the membership somehow
1522 COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
managed to keep it democratic and act as a majority does by running
it, I believe finally in 1947 they got a little sick of the Communist
speech making- within the guild, and I believe at that time the elections
were in November, the board elections, I believe. Prior to that a great
majority of the members of the guild formed an organization which
went to work to defeat the Communists within the guild, and I must
say that in 1947 they destroyed the Communist influence in the guild
completely and, as far as I know, there is no Communist in any posi-
tion of importance in the Screen Writers' Guild today or has been
since that time.
Mr. Tavenner. "Was there concerted effort on the part of the Com-
munist Party to capture the Screen Writers' Guild ?
Mr. Townsend. I am sure it would be their desire to capture it, to
control the Screen Writers' Guild, just as it was their desire to control
what the screen writer could do in the motion-picture industry, to
control the medium, to control the content of film, and I must say
that I think they got not even one step toward first base in this with
the motion-picture industry. I don't know of any Communist mo-
tion picture, nor do I know of any motion picture with Communist
propaganda. I don't think that the Communists succeeded in the least
in getting any propaganda into any motion picture. I think the indus-
try has been very, very careful about this and very good about it.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, what, in your opinion, was the purpose of the
Communist Party in making an effort to capture the Screen Writers'"
Guild, or, might I say, to recruit into the Communist Party screen
writers ?
Mr. Townsend. Well, one of the purposes could be that there were
many high-salaried people among the screen writers. This meant a
great source of income to the party, it meant prestige in some cases —
it meant — it gave them an effective weapon. A writer, obviously, can
write; the party needs writing. I am thinking in terms of the strike
situation, the studio strike situation.
Mr. Tavenner. At times writers become quite vocal; do they not?
Mr. Townsend. Yes; sometimes too vocal. I hope I am not be-
ing so.
Mr. Tavenner. I had intended to make no inference of that kind.
Mr. Walter. He was here all morning.
Mr. Tavenner. If the Communist Party could control the thinking
of the writers by indoctrination, would it not to a great extent control
the content of films and even in an insidious manner?
Mr. Townsend. I am afraid not, sir, because the steps are many
between the script and the film as you see it on the screen. It must
go from the writer to the producer, the director, in some cases an
executive producer, and in some cases the head of the studio. I don't
believe that any heads of any studios in town are now or have ever
been members of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Would that not mean in effect that the success of
the Communist Party would be limited only bv the alertness of those
in the industry who had the great responsibility of reviewing films?"
Mr. Townsend. Yes ; of course. I think they have been extremely
alert.
Mr. Tavenner. But for alertness the Communist Party would,
through its indoctrination of writers, have been able to exert an influ-
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1523
ence and effect upon films which would, not be to the best public
interest of this country?
Mr. Townsend. I still think that they couldn't accomplish this
without also indoctrinating the Screen Directors' Guild, indoctrinat-
ing the producers and indoctrinating the executive heads of the studios.
This is a difficult task.
Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of fraction meetings within the Screen
Writers' Guild at the time you were a member. By fraction meetings
do you mean the meetings of Communist Party members of the guild ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, that's right.
Mr. Tavenner. The Communist members who were also members of
the guild would meet in these fraction meetings for what purpose ?
Mr. Townsend. To set a plan of operation at the membership meet-
ing of the guild. Sometimes it would be decided who would speak,
who would make a speech on a certain issue, and who would follow
him. Especially if electioneering. This fraction was effective because
it had a chance to push candidates for the board who were members
of the Communist Party, because each of us was given a list of 10 or 15
noncommunist members of the guild and directed to campaign with
them.
Mr. Tavenner. Who were members of the Communist Party who
met with you in fraction meetings of the guild ?
Mr. Townsend. Well, as I say, most of the people I have named as
being present in branches would have been there and in addition these
names I recall as having seen at fraction meetings and not having seen
in the branch meetings.
Mr. Tavenner. As a matter of fact, all writers were required to be
members of the guild ; were they not ?
Mr. Townsend. Oh, yes. I think the guild had an 80-percent shop,
I believe it is called, with the Producers' Association. Eighty percent
of the people employed at studios had to be members of the guild. So
that any writer, actually, should be a member of the Screen Writers'
Guild. *
Mr. Tavenner. According to your best judgment, what was the
maximum number of members of the Screen Writers' Guild who were
at any time during your membership members of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Townsend. I think that maximum was approximately 50 Com-
munist members of the Screen Writers' Guild and I think that was
probably in 1944. I believe that was the peak, and it gradually
dwindled from there on.
Mr. Tavenner. Were Communist Party publications, such as Polit-
ical Affairs, used as a source of determining the current Communist
Party line at meetings of the Communist cells which you attended;
that is, within the Screen Writers' Guild ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes. You are referring to the Communist branches
of which I was a member.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, let us direct the question to that point .
Mr. Townsend. Yes. Well, the magazine Political Affairs had
once been called The Communist, I believe, and during the Communist
Political Association — is that the word, I forget — period, it became
Political Affairs. Often there was a report by a member of a branch
81595— 51— pt. 4 8
1524 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
to the branch and material for this report would be obtained, as a rule,
from one of the party publications such as Political Affairs.
Mr. Tavenner. We have had considerable testimony from witnesses
who were members of the Screen Writers' Guild, and others, as to
the effort made by the Communist Party to capture both the guilds
and the unions in the industry and we have had considerable evidence
relating to strikes which occurred. I would like to ask you whether
during any of the wage disputes, or jurisdictional disputes, or strikes,
you, as a Communist, received any instructions or directions from the
Communist Party as to your participation in any manner or form.
Mr. Townsend. Yes. I was asked, or I believe all of our branches
were asked — members in the branches were asked — to volunteer as ob-
servers of the picket lines. Observers were supposed to report any
show of violence or brutality on the picket lines. I didn't see any.
I suppose the reason for this now was that if there were such an
activity the Communist Party could use it for propaganda means.
Mr. Tavenner. Did any incident come to your attention where
members of the Communist Party purposely provoked an incident
which could be used by them for propaganda purposes?
Mr. Townsend. I can't say that I know of such an incident. You
mean that the Communists provoked a show of violence?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. In order to be able to use it.
Mr. Townsend. I'm sorry; I don't know. I was asked, as other
Communist members of the guild were asked during the strike, to
help write pamphlets and leaflets for the Conference of Studio
Unions.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive any direction from the Communist
Party to aid in any manner in the propaganda work that was done,
in connection
Mr. Townsend. You may not have heard my last answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Maybe I did not.
Mr. Townsend. I said that I, as well as other writer Communists,
were asked to write pamphlets and leaflets in support of the Con-
ference of Studio Unions.
Mr. Tavenner. When you spoke of acting as observer, were you re-
quested to act in that capacity by the Communist Party?
Mr. Townsend. As I recall it, I was requested to act in that ca-
pacity. The request came through a branch meeting of the Com-
munist Party. There had been a committee set up, I don't recall now
whether this was set up by the Communist Party, but there were
non-Communists on the committee, as I recall.
Mi-. Tavenner. Are you acquainted or did you become acquainted
while a member of the Communist Party with a person by the name
of Ben Barzman, B-a-r-z-m-a-n?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, Ben Barzman was in a branch with me. I
did not name him this morning. I had forgotten that name.
Mr. Tavenner. Are there any others whose names that you can
now recall? Let me ask you at that point, do you know whether or
not his wife was a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, she also was a member of the same branch.
Mr. Tavenner. What was her name?
Mr. Townsend. Norma.
Mr. Tavenner. Describe Mr. Barzman a little further for the
committee.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1525
Mr. Townsend. Mr. Barznian was a screen writer. Do you mean
a physical description \
Mr. Tavenner. No. his occupation.
Mr. Townsend. His occupation was that of a screen writer. I
don't know his credits.
Mr. Tavenner. Very well.
Mr. Townsend. The only other person I recall is a person who
has been out of the party, as far as I know, for some time. Her name
is Bess Taffel. She was1 in a branch with me, I think, in 1945 ; attend-
ed quite irregularly and then disappeared completely. I was advised
she had left the party at that time. I haven't seen her since, so I
don't know. I am sure she is still out.
Mr. Tavenner. What was her occupation?
Mr. Townsend. Screen writer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know a person by the name of Alfred
Louis Levitt?
Mr. Townsend. Not within the party branch, no.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know a person by the name of Leo
Bigelman?
Mr. Townsend. Yes. At one time during my membership he con-
ducted a class in Marxism, I believe it was, at which my wife and I
attended. This ran for about 1 night a week for 6 weeks, I believe.
This must have been in 19 — I am guessing — 44.
Mr. Tavenner. "Were you a member of the Communist Party at
that time?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, I was.
Mr. Tavenner. Was this a Communist Party meeting which Dr.
Bigelman was conducting?
Mr. Townsend. I take it for granted it was. It was classes in
Marxism. Whether the people attending them were all Communists
or not, I don't know. I would take it for granted that the instructor
would be Communist.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name
of Dan James?
Mr. Townsend. Not within — I know Dan James.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you, of your own knowledge, know that he was
a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Townsend. I had heard that he had left the Communist Party.
I don't know whether you would consider that knowledge of mem-
bership.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you hear that from him or from some
outside source \
Mr. Townsend. I heard it from him.
Mr. Tavenner. From him?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, I think that is direct testimonv. Now, what
were the circumstances under which you heard that?
Mr. Townsend. Simply that I told him I had been out since 1948
and that he told me he also had left the party.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of
Marguerite Roberts ?
Mr. Townsend. I know her. I was never in a party branch with
Marguerite Roberts.
1526 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. You have described for the committee the general
effect of the Duclos letter and the results in this community. What
effect did the Duclos letter have upon you, individually ?
Mr. Townsend. Well, it was the first indication to me that this
organization was not a democratic one. I probably should have left the
party at that time. I must say it is rather difficult to leave the party.
It seems quite easy to get into it, or did at that time ; difficult to leave,
because once one lias been in the party for several years he becomes
more or less insulated against the outside world. You see only Com-
munist people as a rule. Your thinking is done for you by directive.
Now, to get out, unless you get out emotionally, which I did not — to
get out takes a long period of individual thinking, gradual realization
of what this party is, that it is not a political party ; that it is not an
American party.
This, in my case, took a little time to come to these several con-
clusions, and I would like to say a few things about that, but before
that I would like to say that even after one leaves the party there
are still emotional, personal ties which carry on for a certain period,
and I want to give two examples.
I had been out of the party over a year when Lester Cole came to me,
asked me to write a story, an original for the screen with him which
would be submitted under my name for sale to the motion picture in-
dustry. I agreed on an emotional, personal basis, because Mr. Cole
was shortly going to jail. He had a wife and two children. I thought
perhaps a little money would help them. The story did not sell.
About 2 months after that
Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you in that connection
Mr. Townsend. Yes ?
Mr. Tavenner. Did anyone in the production — that phase of the
business, the producer or director, have any knowledge of this ar-
rangement \
Mr. Townsend. Only the agent who was selling the story or was
attempting to sell it.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was he ?
Mr. Townsend. George Willner.
Mr. Tavenner. All right.
Mr. Townsend. A couple of months after this, in the spring — early
spring of 1950, Mr. Willner called me and told me that Dalton Trumbo
was in desperate need of money. He, too, was about to go to jail. He
had written an original for the screen. Would I lend my name to it ?
Well, again, emotionally and personally, I agreed on the basis that
if it sold I would get no money. Trnmbo had a wife and, I believe,,
three children, none of whom were Communists, who might need
money during his incarceration. I agreed to do this. Again, this
story did not sell.
Now, a month or so after that the North Koreans I think inspired
by the Soviet Union, started the Korean war and I realized at that
moment one could no longer have emotional or personal ties with the
Communist Party or members of it. If I may further answer the
question about my leaving the party, what process I went through — if
that is in order now. Is it?
Mr. Tayi.n ner. Yes. I would like for you to describe any condition
that you desire to describe relating to your leaving the party and in
doing it, the thing that I am certain the committee is interested in is to-
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1527
have such knowledge within your possession that would enable them to
conclude in their own minds whether your break with the Communist
Party has been definite, complete, and final.
Mr. Townsend. Yes. Well, when one goes into a period of indi-
vidual thinking, individual consideration, as I say it is difficult. You
must, in a sense, remove yourself from this group even though you are
still in it. I had come to the conclusion that a member of the Commu-
nist Party has a double allegiance. He claims he is loyal to the United
States, while at the same time his party membership makes him loyal to
the Soviet Union. In his heart he must be loyal to the Soviet Union.
In time of crisis, I think he will be asked to choose between these
two allegiances, and I think he will choose his first allegiance, which is
to the party, and which, in turn, is to the Soviet Union. I think an
example of that — I was quite shocked at the testimony in Washington
of Waldo Salt when he was asked what I thought to be a very simple
question which, I believe, was in case of an unprovoked attack by the
Soviet Union upon the United States would you defend the United
States? This gentleman did not, as far as I know, answer this ques-
tion. He argued with the committee. He obviously hadn't settled the
matter in his own mind. There may be others. Wouldn't you say that
such a person is potentially dangerous ? I would.
I think there is no place in the Communist Party for a loyal Ameri-
can, nor is there a place in America for a group which calls itself an
American political party but which is. in essence, a conspiratorial
organization devoted to the destruction of American democracy. Now,
I want to say, too, that the Communists have been blaming these in-
vestigations of this committee, as they blame every attempt to unmask
the party for silencing on its liberal opinion. I think that the
Communists have neutralized the liberals. I think the Communists
in a large sense have destroyed the liberal movement in this country.
I think that by their treating everything as black and white — I think
that a man can be politically left of center without being a Commu-
nist, just as he can be right of center without being a Fascist, and I
believe — I would like to say this as a personal thought. I think there
are a few misguided liberals who may not speak to me as the result of
my testimony here, and I say that these people are still living in an
age of innocence. Several years ago all of us fought with all our
might against German and Italian fascism. Today there is a section
of people who shut their eyes to Soviet fascism. I think it is time
that they open them ; if what I say here and if what this committee
does here can help those people, I think that this will show a large
measure of success in addition to what the other committee is doing.
I would like to quote, if I may, just a couple of sentences from an
interesting article I read in a recent issue of the Saturday Review of
Literature by Mr. Peter Varat, associate professor at Mount Holyoke
College, in line with this very thing. He says :
This kind of liberal tends to avoid the real facts of Soviet Russia, such as
the enormous aid given to Germany during the Hitler-Stalin Pact ; the Stalinist
purge of all Lenin-Marxist associates ; the postwar anti-Semitic drive in the
Soviet Union; the slave labor camps; increasing class lines and pay differentials
between Soviet rich and poor, so much greater than the capitalist United States.
I think that the Communists who decry the lack of freedom in this
country haven't given thought to the amount of freedom allowed
the people in the Soviet Union. Let's say the artists, the sciences,
1528 COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
and professions, to use the title of this organization. It is art by
decree, science by decree, writing by decree.
The Constitution of the Soviet Union — I have read it and it is
a beautiful document. It guarantees freedom of the press, freedom
of religion. Among other things, I take this to mean, freedom of
religion to mean freedom to worship Stalin to whatever extent one
wishes; freedom of the press, I must say. must mean freedom to read
every issue of Pravda or every other issue of Pravda. There isn't
much choice.
I think, also, that there have been charges that this committee has
been smearing Hollywood. Again this is the Communist tactic of
reversing the actual situation, because when a man says, "I am not
on trial here, the committee is on trial,'"' I believe someone said that
at an earlier hearing.
(At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing
room. )
Mr. Townsend. In my opinion I think the smearing of the indus-
try has been done by the Communist Party, a small minority within
this basically decent industry and basically decent community. I
think that this community, together with the motion-picture indus-
try, can, with this hearing, put an end to the Communist smear cam-
paign.
I would like to say for myself that I am grateful for the dignity
and fairness with which I have been treated and with which this
committee operates. I am convinced that you are after information,
not headlines. I think there is no martyrdom here except those who
choose martyrdom.
I would like to say that I have aided this committee, as I believe
we face a strong potential enemy abroad, an enem}* which shouts
of peace while it prepares for war. while it is aiding — and killing
Americans in Korea at this moment. I think to keep our Nation
strong all of us who can help must do what we can to expose the
enemy within our country.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Before yielding to the members of the committee for
such questions as they may desire to ask the witness, it is approaching
the noon hour and we will take a recess for 1 hour.
(Whereupon a recess was taken at 12: 30 p. m. until 1 : 30 p. m. of
the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
(Whereupon, at the hour of 1 : 50 p. m. of the same day, the pro-
ceedings were resumed, the same parties being present. )
Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order, please. I would like
to take advantage, of this opportunity to reannounce and reaffirm the
long-standing policy of this committee that any person whose name
is identified before this committee in testimony of any other witness
as having been connected or associated with either the Communist
Party or any other subversive organization, that this committee
will be glad to afford them an opportunity to appear before the
committee at such time as may be mutually arranged for the purpose
of replying to such accusation, denying or explaining the same.
Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1529
If your Honor recalls, the witness, Mr. Leo Townsend, was on
the stand and the committee members had not yet questioned him.
Mr. Wood. Will Mr. Townsend return to the stand.
TESTIMONY OF LEO TOWNSEND— Resumed
Mr. Wood. I will now yield to the members of the committee if
there are any questions they desire to ask.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Townsend, I want to take this opportunity to
congratulate you on having the courage to come here and make the
statement that you made. I know it wasn't an easy thing to do but you
have made a great contribution in the struggle for freedom and I
congratulate you.
Mr. Townsend. I thank you. I felt that I was speaking not only
for myself but for the motion-picture industry.
Mr. Walter. During the course of your testimony you deplored the
fact that the United States Communists have not stated their goal and
aims at this time. In view of that fact don't you feel that the goals
and aims are the same as they were before Korea ?
Mr. Townsend. Well, I think their goals and aims change ac-
cording to the change of policy of the Soviet Union. What I said
was that they have not openly, as far as I know, proclaimed these
aims to the American people. I think that this is a dishonest
position.
Mr. Walter. That being the fact, don't you think it is safe to
conclude that their aims are what they have always been, namely
world domination?
Mr. Townsend. Yes. Their aims are the aims of the Soviet Union,
in my opinion.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Townsend, you stated that you aided in the
activities of the National Council of American-Soviet Friendship.
Was that a Communist-front organization ?
Mr. Townsend. I am quite sure it was. I aided it in terms of con-
tributing money.
Mr. Walter. Yes.
Mr. Townsend. Yes, it was a Communist-front organization.
Mr. Walter. Was it a Communist organization throughout the
United States or just in particular parts of it ?
Mr. Townsend. I have no knowledge of other branches of it, The
organization here was fostered by Communists.
Mr. Walter. In your contact with Communists, have you discussed
with them the known conditions that exist behind the iron curtain?
Mr. Townsend. I have tried to from time to time, but Communists
seem completely to disregard these facts. They refuse, somehow, to
believe them.
Mr. Walter. What do they have to say about the avowed purpose
of liquidating free nations, Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania?
Mr. Townsend. I believe that that, in Communist parlance, is called
"liberating these nations."
Mr. Walter. Liberating ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Walter. Do you suppose the same term is used in describing
what is happening in Poland today where approximately 5 million
of the intelligentsia have been liberated?
1530 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Townsend. Well, of course, I think that is the Communist
Soviet pattern with all those nations, that they move in ; they take over
the nation ; soon there is no freedom of thought, religion, or anything.
It becomes
Mr. Walter. I understand that, of course, but having had much to
do with the displaced persons program, it so happens that I am chair-
man of the Immigration Committee and I know much of the condi-
tions that exist in Euroj^e, conditions that we attempted to alleviate.
It is inconceivable to me that any American would be willing to belong
to an organization associated with another group doing the things
and having done the things that have been done throughout the world.
Mr. Townsend. Well, I agree with you there. I can't understand
it, myself.
Mr. Wood. Is that all, Mr. Walter ?
Mr. Walter. That is all, Mr. Wood.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Townsend, in answering questions directed to you
by my distinguished colleague from Pennsylvania just now, Mr.
Walter, I notice you, with reference to the three nations he questioned
you about, said the Soviet theory of that was the liberation. You
remember you used the term "liberation."
Am I to understand from you, therefore, that that same term is
now applied or was applied to our own country during the time you
were a Communist? In other words, would they apply the same terms
toward their thinking of our country? Would they undertake to
liberate our country in the same way ?
Mr. Townsend. I don't recall any discussion of that in terms of the
European countries. It may have been a long-range program. There
was no immediate necessity for liberating, or chance for, shall we say,
liberating the United States.
Mr. Doyle. In other words, merely because they thought there was
no chance to apply force and violence toward liberating, under the
■Soviet theory, the United States from its capitalistic system, they
didn't apply the term ?
Mr. Townsend. That's right.
Mr. Doyle. Why did you go to Warner Bros, and tell them your
story? You related that "Warner Bros, told me my testimony would
in no way affect my employment."
Mr. Townsend. That's right.
Mr. Doyle. Why did you go to them?
Mr. Townsend. I felt I should be honest with them. If they had
not known that I had been a member of the Communist Party, if they
had not known that I had been subpenaed, if they had not known that
I was to appear before this committee, I wanted to be completely
honest with them. I went to them, told them I had been subpenaed,
told them I planned to testify. They said, "Your testimony will in
no way affect your employment here. We feel that anyone who co-
operates with this committee is doing the industry a service."
Mr. Doyle. I wish to say, in answer to my question, it was very
commendable of Warner Bros, to so declare to you.
Mr. Townsend. I agree completely.
Mr. Doyle. That is certainly evidence of cooperation on the part
of the employer in an effort to help clean up the mess.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1531
Mr. Townsend. I know I didn't ask them to take this stand, this
came voluntarily from Warner Bros.
Mr. Doyle. This morning you stated you wondered if there were
ways you could help cure conditions. You stated there had been two
wars, there had been a depression, we were then at war with Germany,
and we were allies of Russia. Do you remember the portion of the
testimony to which I am directing your attention now ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, I do.
Mr. Doyle. What made you come to the conclusion, if anything,
that within the structure of the existing political party framework
you couldn't give expression to your own problems and viewpoints?
What was it that made you reach out to find some other avenue ?
Mr. Townsend. Simply that I got the feeling that this other group
was working more actively at that moment toward the goals. And
this is true, they were at that time because it happened to suit the
policy of the Soviet Union.
Mr. Doyle. Did the depression have any definite effect on your
thinking?
Mr. Townsend. On my thinking ?
Mr. Doyle. Yes.
Mr. Townsend. Yes, of course. I think it had an effect on the think-
ing of a lot of Americans.
Mr. Doyle. You stated, "I feel I should cooperate with the Con-
gressmen. If I don't cooperate now I would share the responsibility
of conditions that might develop." What conditions do you have
in mind that might develop over which you would feel a portion of
responsibility if you did not come in and make a clean breast of it, as
you have done today, and help clean up the mess ?
Mr. Townsend. I am thinking of conditions such as say a time of
national emergency, say a possible war between the United States
and the Soviet Union, which I hope will not take place. In such an
emergency my fear is that people who are at present members of the
Communist Party, who are used to taking directives, will continue to
take directives, and if they are asked to commit an act of violence some
of them may.
Mr. Doyle. Am I to understand then that the import of your an-
swer is, or does it go this far, that your belief is that generally speak-
ing the members of the Communist Party would, if there was war
between Soviet Russia and the United States of America, that gen-
erally speaking the members of the American Communist Party
would share sympathy and possibly action with the Soviet Union in
preference to the United States ?
Mr. Townsend. As I said before, I think that members of the
Communist Party in America must have a double allegiance. In
time of crisis if they are asked to make a choice they will choose their
first allegiance, which I am convinced will be to the Communist Party,
which is to the Soviet Union.
Mr. Doyle. I asked you that question because following the party
line, according to your testimony, it logically leads to the bearing of
arms of a Communist for the Soviet Union against the United States
of America, doesn't it?
Mr. Townsend. You mean a Communist would tend to work within
this country against the country?
Mr. Doyle. Yes.
1532 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Townsend. That's possible, yes.
Mr. Doyle. Doesn't your testimony go to that point?
Mr. Townsend. Well, it would be very difficult for a man openly
to support the Soviet Union in a Avar when the Soviet Union is not
here. What I mean to say is if they should attack and overcome this
country it might be a little simpler for a person to join the Soviet
forces.
Mr. Doyle. You stated, "It became clear to me that now that the
war was over the Soviet Union and the United States were no longer
allies and the party line changed.'' That may not be the exact word-
ing of it, but it is the substance of it. What did you mean by that ?
Mr. Townsend. I meant that when the war was over the Soviet
Union no longer needed the United States as an ally. The Soviet
Union now was going on its own. I think it had started the process
of world conquest and would be very difficult to do in alliance with a
democracy.
Mr. Doyle. You stated in substance that "some of us felt it was
not an American party. Others felt that it was. Sidney Benson was
the functionary called in to defeat those of us who held this, what
they considered false position. Anti-Soviet position it was called, and
Mr. Benson hammered us over the head for a whole evening, and I
didn't see him again at any party meeting." What was the basis
of that statement by you ? Do I understand that Benson, the Com-
munist leader at this meeting, was advocating that you take the posi-
tion of the Soviet Union against the position of the United States
of America?
Mr. Townsend. He was advocating that we follow the party line
and that we have no argument with it.
Mr. Doyle. The party line was
Mr. Townsend. The party line is always the line of the Soviet
Union.
Mr. Doyle. In other words, you couldn't debate and discuss and
have any difference of opinion with the party line as given to you
from the top?
Mr. Townsend. There was no discussion within the party of any
possible, let me say, wrong within the Soviet Union.
Mr. Doyle. I will ask you this question. You referred to the
Lincoln Book Shop and the Progressive Book Shop in Los Angeles.
Did you have knowledge personally, or was it your belief that these
book shops were actively supported by and part and parcel of the
Communist program in this country?
Mr. Townsend. It was my firm belief that the Lincoln Book Shop
was set up by the Communist Party in town, yes.
(At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing
room.)
Mr. Doyle. How about the Progressive Book Shop?
Mr. Townsend. I had no contact with that shop, so I don't know.
Mr. Doyle. You stated, "We were all directed to work in mass or-
ganizations, we were asked to work in other organizations." You
didn't state at that time what you did in other organizations in any
detail. What did you do in any other organizations following
your
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1533
Mr. Townsend. I did state that I, as a member of the Screen
Writers' Guild, worked to get myself on the board of the guild. That
was considered my mass organization.
Mr. Doyle. Why would you want to work to get yourself on the
board?
Mr. TowNSEND. Because it was felt by the party that if a number
of Communists were on the board they might be able to direct the
thinking of the guild. This they never accomplished, I might say.
Mr. Doyle. By directing the thinking of the guild, that would lead,
would it not, logically, or am I in error, at least to indirect control of
the thinking of men that were writing screen scenarios ?
Mr. Townsend. Indirectly, yes ; but again I must say there never
was any control by the Communist Party of either the Screen Writers'
Guild or the content of films. I would like, if I may, at this point
to disagree with yesterday's witness, Mr. Ashe. I believe he said that
he detected, as an expert, several instances of Communist propaganda
in American films. I am not quoting him directly, but this is as I
recall it. He was, to my knowledge, not in the motion-picture in-
dustry. I suppose I can call myself an expert, too. I am at least in
the motion-picture industry, and I don't know of any Communist
propaganda in motion pictures. I think he referred to the motion
picture, Blockade.
Now, it seems to me that at the time Blockade was made the ma-
jority of the people in this country were sympathetic to the Loyalists
in Spain, so that the content, in my opinion, couldn't be considered
propaganda at the time unless, of course, it suited their purpose at
the moment.
Mr. Doyle. I think Mr. Ashe's active membership in the party was
prior to yours by several years, wasn't it ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, it was.
Mr. D:>yle. And prior to the time you became, claimingly, an ex-
pert ; isn't that true ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. So Mr. Ashe might well have had information that you
never heard of?
Mr. Townsend. This is possible. I don't recall that he brought it
put in testimony.
Mr. Doyle. No; but there is a difference of many years there be-
tween your experience and his experience ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, of course.
Mr. Doyle. Now, 1 am not intending to argue with you, but I am
interested in again asking you why the Communist Party directive
would dictate to you that you should get on the board of the Screen
Writers' Guild if your membership in the Screen Writers' Guild as
a member of the Communist Party, taking directives from the Com-
munist Party, was not intended to influence
Mr. Townsend. Oh, I must say I didn't mean to imply that it
wasn't. Certainly it was intended to influence.
Mr. Doyle. I see. Influence what ?
Mr. Townsend. Influence the guild, how the guild was conducted;
possibly to gain control of the guild would be the goal.
Mr. Doyle. Why would they want to gain control of the guild ?
1534 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Townsend. Because the guild is an important guild in the
picture industry. If they gained control of one, they might have a
better chance of gaining control of another, I would think.
Mr. Doyle. The members of the guild were all screen writers?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Assuming that all members of the board of directors in
control of the Screen Writers' Guild were all Communists, at least
in that indirect manner there would be control — in that manner — of
the screen writers?
Mr. Townsend. Of the writer, himself, yes. They would still have
no direct control over the content of film.
Mr. Doyle. But they would have direct control over every member
of the board of directors of the Screen Writers' Guild ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes ; that is true.
Mr. Doyle. That goes to your thinking as well as your opinion,
doesn't it ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. You stated that in 1947 they destroyed entirely the Com-
munist influence completely in the Screen Writers' Guild. How
was that destroyed ?
Mr. Townsend. As I recall it, a group of the majority of the guild
membership formed an organization which met often, campaigned,
set up a slate of candidates to oppose the slate on which there may
have been Communists. They electioneered, they campaigned. Their
slate won in 1947 and, to my knowledge, there may have been one or
two Communists on the board since then, not elected, but brought
up by virtue of absence of elected members. There may have been
no Communists on the board since then.
Mr. Doyle. What, in your judgment, is the motivating factor for
men and women, men like yourself with intelligence and training, to
unite with the Communist Party when you learn to know that you are
instructed to follow the Soviet Communist line instead of continuing
your allegiance to the Constitution of the United States? What is
the motivating factor ? What makes you do it ?
Mr. Townsend. I found, in my case, I didn't know or realize that
the party was following the Soviet line until I had been in it a while.
Mr. Doyle. I know, but your printed constitution and bylaws as
produced yesterday showTed very clearly that there was no pledge of
allegiance to the Constitution of the United States. Did you get
a chance to read that ?
Mr. Townsend. These were not generally distributed to the party
membership at the time I went in.
Mr. Doyle. Do you know of any pledge or any commitment in any
of the printed literature of the Communist Party of the United States
which permits the Communist to uphold the Constitution of the
United States?
Mr. Townsend. That permits a
Mr. Doyle. That commits, that pledges the Communist to uphold
the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. Townsend. I don't know of such.
Mr. Doyle. Do you know where I might find one, if such exists? I
haven't been able to find one yet.
Mr. Townsend. No ; I do not.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1535
Mr. Doyle. You, in your closing remark, which was very splendid,
as all of it was, used this language, ''We must do all we can to expose
the enemy within our country." What can we do, in your judgment,
to expose the enemy? When I say the enemy, Mr. Townsend, I am
referring to people dedicated to subversive misconduct and to the
subversion and the destruction of our American way of life under
our constitutional form of government. I am not referring to people
who might differ with you or me politically. They have a right to
those thoughts, but I am referring in this question to people known
to you by personal action and by mass action, determined to subvert,
to overthrow, to overturn our Government, if necessary, to carry out
the Soviet program. What shall we do to help expose that kind of
people ? We can't ship them to Russia, all of them, although we ought
to be able to get rid of them, shouldn't we, in some way?
Mr. Townsend. Well, it seems to me this matter is more in the area
of the committee than it is in my own. I think somehow the Com-
munist Party should be made to show its face to the American people,
which it hasn't done so far. How that can be accomplished, again,
that I don't know. That is what you gentlemen
Mr. Doyle. I think you realize, Mr. Townsend, from what you said,
because you complimented this committee on what it tried to ac-
complish and what it is trying to accomplish — I think you realize — I
hope you do — that this committee realizes that while our assignment,
as I read yesterday, is to investigate in the United States subversive
and un-American propaganda that is instigated from foreign coun-
tries or within our own country, nevertheless we are diligently try-
ing, consciously trying and endeavoring to do that difficult task within
the framework of our Constitution, and I just wish to say this to you,
that I hoped that your example in coming clean and cooperating to
the maximum with us, even though it must be embarrassing and even
though I know that it will eliminate you from some of your former
contacts and friends, I want to compliment you on doing that and,
as I say, I hope, as a member of this committee, as a citizen of the
State of California that all present members or recent members of the
Communist Party that place our country, the United States of Amer-
ica, ahead of Soviet Russia will come clean, also, and that is without
any exceptions. I want to urge every person in California that is
patriotic enough to acknowledge his American citizenship in prefer-
ence to Soviet communism to come out clean and be man and woman
enough to face up and be willing to lose some personal friendship
(At this point Representative Francis E. Walter left the hearing
room. )
Mr. Townsend. I hope my testimony might help some of these peo-
ple to do that.
Mr. Doyee. Well, I hope it does. I want to publicly urge any man
or woman that has got the guts and the gumption to fight for the
United States of American to come up and come clean and do it while
this committee is here in Los Angeles. Thank you very much.
Mr. Townsend. Thank you.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Townsend, I will join with the rest of the mem-
bers of the committee in thanking you for your statement, You have
added a great deal to the knowledge already possessed by the com-
1536 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
niittee. Did you find at any time during your membership in the
Communist Party, that your career was in any way facilitated through
any connections you had in the Communist Party in the studios ?
Mr. Townsend. No; I have no recollection at any time where I
might have obtained a position, a job, a screen-writing job because I
was a Communist. As a matter of fact, I would say the reverse might
be true. During the past 3 years, since I have been out of the party,
I have found difficulty obtaining employment in the film industry.
Mr. Jackson. You have found difficulty ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes, I have.
Mr. Jackson. Since you left the Communist Party ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. You experienced difficulty in finding employment?
Mr. Townsend. That's right.
Mr. Jackson. That was the import of my question. There have
been charges that in some instances, at least, the Communists, through
their interlocking connections and associations, were able to obtain
or conversely deny employment to their favorites or their enemies.
Mr. Townsend. This may be true. I am saying, in my own instance,.
I don't recall any example of that.
Mr. Jackson. Did you say who your agent was ?
Mr. Townsend. My agent is the William Morris Agency.
Mr. Jackson. William Morris Agency?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. You touched on the matter of the Duclos letter and
the abrupt about-face in party line that the letter caused at that time.
Do you also have knowledge of the Albert Maltz articles?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. Would you explain the nature of the Maltz affair
very briefly \
Mr. Townsend. Well, as I recall it now, Mr. Maltz wrote an article
which appeared in the New Masses, asking for more freedom for left-
wing writers and speaking of art for art's sake, and also that the Com-
munists— the left wing should not blacklist or denounce non-left-wing
writers, people who had once been left wing and had left.
Mr. Jackson. What reception was accorded that article upon its
appearance by the Communists and fellow travelers in the writing
profession \
Mr. Townsend. The immediate reception locally was very good.
Then the national party headquarters evidently felt that this was an
error and a man, I believe, named Samuel Sillen was sent out here to
correct this error, and it evidently was corrected because Mr. Maltz
later wrote another article for the same magazine, the New Masses,
recanting.
Mr. Jackson. That was indicative, was it not, of the measure of
independent thought permitted a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Townsend. I would say so; yes.
Mr. Jackson. Are you presently a member of the Screen Writers'
Guild?
.Mr. Townsend. Yes, I am.
Mr. Jackson. What can you tell the committee of the existence of
two factions known, respectively, as the all-guild committee and the
progressive caucus within the Screen Writers' Guild?
COMMUX'ISM IN MOTION-PICTURE' INDUSTRY 1537
Mr. Townsend. These were the groups I had reference to in answer-
ing one of Mr. Doyle's questions. The all-guild committee, I believe,
was the organization formed in 1917 by the majority of the member-
ship of the Screen Writers' Guild to defeat the other factions, the
Mr. Jackson. Progressive caucus \
Mr. Townsend. The progressive caucus, yes; and it succeeded, as
I remember, entirely.
Mr. Jackson. Was the progressive caucus within the Screen Writ-
ers' Guild an organization as such in that it had a chairman and
officers of the caucus within the guild ?
Mr. Townsend. I'm sorry, I can't remember that, definitely. I
know that it was composed not only of just Communists. There were
others in it.
Mr. Jackson. Well, without respect to the membership or nonmem-
bership of those who were particularly active in the progressive cau-
cus, who took the leading parts in the caucus, itself, within the guild ?
Mr. Townsend. Again, I am quite sure it was John Howard Law-
son.
Mr. Jackson. In your opinion and in light of your own experience
out of your own observations, is it your feeling that the Communist
Party should be outlawed as such ?
Mr. Townsend. Again, I think that is more in the area of the com-
mittee. I don't know, frankly; I don't know whether outlawing the
party and sending it underground will only bring it up somewhere
else in another form. As I said to Mr. Doyle, I think if there wTas a
way to make the party show its face to the American people, this
might be more effective. I don't know.
Sir. Jackson. What proportion — out of your experience, again —
what proportion of the party is above ground and what part is below
ground at the present time ?
Mr. Townsend. I have no knowledge of that because I have had no
contact along those lines.
Mr. Jackson. As of the period during which you held membership
in the Communist Party, what proportion of its activities were above
ground and in no way secret?
Mr. Townsend. Well, very little, I would think. I can't think
of
Mr. Jackson. Very little above ground?
Air. Townsend. Yes. I can't think of any activity, offhand. You
mean in which the Communist called himself a Communist?
Mr. Jackson. That's right.
Mr. Townsend. I can't think of any such thing.
Mr. Jackson. Isn't the distinguishing feature as between above
ground and underground whether or not the activities are carried on
in the open or are carried on in a cloak-and-dagger atmosphere of se-
crecy and conspiracy ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes ; I see what you mean.
Mr. Jackson. Did you have any knowledge while you were a mem-
ber of the various groups or cells to which; you were attached of par-
allel work being done in the way of the transmittal of information
through the underground, of espionage, of courier services, as dis-
tinguished from the cell organization ?
Mr. Townsend. No ; I had no knowledge of that.
1538 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Jackson. Do you feel that the average member of the Com-
munist Party is permitted to have any knowledge of that phase of
party activity?
Mr. Townsend. I think not.
Mr. Jackson. I believe you said you were financial director or agent
of the branch to which you were assigned?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. For how long a period did you serve in that capacity ?
Mr. Townsend. I would guess about 6 months.
Mr. Jackson. How many individuals were you responsible for in
the matter of the collection of moneys?
Mr. Townsend. Oh, probably 12.
Mr. Jackson. How often did you make your collections?
Mr. Townsend. Quarterly.
Mr. Jackson. Quarterly?
Mr. Townsend. Quarterly.
Mr. Jackson. Would you care to give the committee an estimate
of the amount of money that passed through your hands during the
period of time you were financial director ?
Mr. Townsend. Well, I mentioned this morning in answer to one
of Mr. Tavenner's questions that during the time I was financial di-
rector most of the high-salaried screen writers at that time were not
employed so that there was never very much money passed through
my hands. I would say never more than $200 a quarter. It may be
$250. It is roughly around that figure.
Mr. Jackson. How many of the men you have named as being Com-
munists to your personal knowledge are still members in good stand-
ing and in regular attendance at the Screen Writers* Guild (
Mr. Townsend. Members of the Screen Writers' Guild?
Mr. Jackson. Members of the Screen Writers' Guild.
Mr. Townsend. Well, I suppose all of them are. Any screen writer
is a member of the Screen Writers' Guild unless he does not pay dues,
unless for a certain period of time he has no screen credits, and I think
then he becomes an associate member.
Mr. Jackson. Have you attended the meetings of the Screen
Writers' Guild recently?
Mr. Townsend. I am sure I must have, yes.
Mr. Jackson. Were any of the individuals you have mentioned as
being members of the Communist Party present at the last meeting
you attended?
Mr. Townsend. Again I can't be sure. I would imagine so. I
don't remember what the date was of the last meeting I attended. I
probably did not attend the last couple of meetings because I live quite
a ways away from town and my wife was having a difficult time with
childbirth. So for the last two meetings I think I didn't attend.
Mr. Jackson. Again out of your personal experience and your
knowledge of the situation here in Los Angeles, would you say what
organization is today carrying the brunt of the burden so far as
Communist and Communist-front activities are concerned?
Mr. Townsend. I would say it is the Arts, Sciences, and Profes-
sions Council.
Mr. Jackson. Is that the Hollywood Council of Arts, Sciences,
and Professions?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1539
Mr. Jackson. Did you personally ever write or attempt to write
into any script any material which had been dictated to you by the
Communist Party?
Mr. Townsend. No ; I did not.
Mr. Jackson. Do you have knowledge of any writer having done
so?
Mr. Townsend. No, sir ; I haven't.
Mr. Jackson. Did you take any part in the so-called Writers'
Mobilization ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. What was the nature of the work that you did for
the mobilization?
Mr. Townsend. I served on, I believe, a panel on pan-American
affairs.
Mr. Jackson. Was this work clone at the request of the Government ?
Mr. Townsend. I believe so ; yes. I think all the Screen Writers'
Guild was involved.
Mr. Jackson. But you did some work on behalf of the Writers'
Mobilization ?
Mr. Townsend. I served on the mobilization.
Mr. Jackson. Was this during the time you were a member of
the Communist Party?
Mr. Townsend. If you can bring me up on the date. Was that
in 1943?
Mr. Jackson. I believe it was 1943, or so I am advised by counsel.
Mr. Townsend. In that case I was a member of the party at that
time.
Mr. Jackson. I believe you stated that out of the membership of
the Screen Writers' Guild at the time the Communist drive was at
its peak there were approximately 50 members of the Screen Writers'
Guild who were members of the Communist Party; is that correct?
Mr. Townsend. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. What was the total membership of the Screen Writ-
ers' Guild at that time?
Mr. Townsend. I think at that time there were roughly between 900
and 1,000 members in the Screen Writers' Guild.
Mr. Jackson. Again, Mr. Townsend. I will add my thanks to the
other members of the committee. I think you have made a consider-
able contribution.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter.
Mr. Potter. Mr. Townsend, in your testimony this morning you
mentioned your activities in three fractions of mass organizations in
which you raised money or to which you contributed money, I belie v
was your testimony. I don t- recall offhand the three mass organiza-
tions that you mentioned. Do you have any recollection?
Mr. Townsend. One was the Council of American-Soviet Friend-
ship; one was the People's Educational Association, I believe was the
title ; and one was the Hollywood Independent Democratic Committee,
which later, I believe, became the Arts, Sciences, and Professions
Council.
Mr. Potter. Was a fraction in each one of the organizations men-
tioned strong enough in order to control the mass organization?
Mr. Townsend. I would say "Yes." I was not in a fraction of
those organizations; I contributed to them.
81595 — ."l — pt. 4 9
1540 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Potter. You contributed to them ?
Mr. Townsend. Yes. My opinion would be that-
Mr. Potter. That they controlled the mass organization?
Mr. Towxsexd. My opinion would be "Yes."
Mr. Potter. You mentioned in your direct testimony there were
50 members, or 50 Communists, in the Screen Writers' Guild. You
failed to mention what the size of the Screen Writers' Guild was as a
Whole.
Mr. Towxsexd. Mr. Jackson. I believe, just asked that question. I
told him that the membership, I believed, at that time was between
900 and 1,000.
Mr. Potter. And that was the highest percentage of membership
of the Communist Party in the guild (
Mr. Towxsexd. To my knowledge; yes. I think that was the peak
of Communist membership.
Mr. Potter. It is interesting, Mr. Townsend, that the Communist
Party members are today great advocates of peace, and I think that
probably you were in the party during the Hitler-Stalin pact.
Mr. Towxsend. No ; I wasn't,
Mr. Potter. That was before your time in the party. At that time
they were very much interested in peace; and then, with the attack
upon Russia by Germany, overnight they became warmongers; they
were for opening up the second front.
Mr. Towxsexd. Yes, sir.
Mr. Potter. At the conclusion and during the military alliance be-
tween the Soviet Union and the United States, during World War II,
there was a great effort on the part of the Communist Party in the
United States to aid in prosecuting the war effort, and because of that
effort many people considered that their aims were much more to the
aims of our own Government, But then, at the conclusion of World
War II, what happened? The Soviet Union, the Communist Party
members then received their instructions to put on the so-called peace
drive and become very militant, So the clamor for peace today is a
political expediency which the Communist Party is trying to impress
the American people that they, and they alone, are interested in peace.
Mr. Towxsend. Sure.
Mr. Potter. I dare say that every American citizen today would
like peace, and there are many of us, and I would say the vast major-
ity of the American people are just as opposed to fascism as they are
to communism. And many of those people have contributed just as
much to the defeat of fascism, and we are just as determined to defeat
another form of dictatorship which is just as vicious, and that is of
communism.
Mr. Townsend. I think we could use right now a great rise of the
anti-Fascist spirit we had a few years ago for this same fight.
Mr. Potter. I am curious to know whether you are familiar with
the publication entitled "The Communist Party, a Manual on Organi-
zation," which was written by J. Peters back in 1935. Now, in some
Communist organizations this has served as more or less of a Bible
for the Communist Party members. Are you familiar with that \
Mr. Towxsexd. I don't believe I have ever seen this document.
Mr. Potter. I would like to read the role and aim of the Commu-
nist Party as enunciated in their own manual, and you will see if this
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE' INDUSTRY 1541
was the aim of the Communist Party when you were a member, and
I quote now : 1
As the leader and organizer of the proletariat, the Communist Party of the
United States of America leads the working class in the fight for the revolution-
ary overthrow of capitalism, for the establishment of the dictatorship of the
proletariat, for the establishment of a Socialist Soviet Republic in the United
States, for the complete abolition of classes, for the establishment of socialism,
the first stage of the classless Communist society.
The aim of the Communist Party as enunciated here, would you
say that was the aim as you experienced it in the Communist Party?
Mr. Townsend. No ; this was not enunciated to me, nor most of
the people who joined the party out here. We discovered this gradu-
ally later.
Mr. Potter. This was the hidden aim that didn't come out
Mr. Townsend. I would say so ; yes. When I went into the party
I certainly didn't realize this.
Mr. Potter. Did they ever mention to you your responsibility to
defend the Soviet Union?
Mr. Townsend. I don't recall if that ever came up ; no.
Mr. Potter. Also in this same manual there is a note that Browder
gave to 2,000 workers in New York, and this is a pledge which they
took. In the pledge there is one sentence which I will read, and I
quote :
I pledge myself to rally the masses to defend the Soviet Union, the land of
victorious socialism.
It says nothing about defending the United States of America.
Mr. Townsend. I don't hear that in there; no. You are not con-
sciously leaving it out, I suppose ?
Mr. Potter. No. It is not in here. So I say I am wondering if,
particularly during the period of the so-called wartime alliance be-
tween the Soviet Union and the United States, if many of the aims
of the Communist Party, such as are basic party policy, weren't hidden
from the average Communist member.
Mr. Townsend. Yes ; indeed they were. Certainly they were.
Mr. Potter. It is also interesting to note that when you were dis-
cussing a while ago, I believe with Mr. Doyle, the so-called lack of
freedom of discussion in the Communist Party, that here is a para-
graph from this same manual on party discussion and freedom of
criticism. Let me read you this paragraph, and I quote:
We cannot imagine a discussion, for example, questioning the correctness of
the leading role of the proletariat in the revolution, or the necessity for the prole-
tarian dictatorship. We do not question the theory of the necessity for the force-
ful overthrow of capitalism. We do not question the correctness of the revolu-
tionary theory of the class struggle laid down by Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin.
We do not question the counterrevolutionary nature of Trotskyism.
In other words, you can't question the teachings of Marx or Engels
or Lenin or Stalin in your party circles ?
Mr. Townsend. That's right. I would say that this leaves very
little area for democratic discussion; wouldn't you ?
Mr. Potter. I would say it would.
Mr. Townsend, I have no further questions, but I would like to
compliment you on your presentation here today, and I am most
1 See appendix, printed in a separate volume for complete text of this document.
1542 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
pleased that your studio lias seen fit to aid you in your future career,
and I hope that your career will be long and successful.
Mr. Townsend. Thank you, sir.
(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room.)
Mr. Wood. It has been said that to make a mistake and to make an
effort to rectify it requires the highest degree of moral courage. I am
inclined to subscribe to that doctrine. I don't think any loyal Amer-
ican citizen can gainsay the fact that today communism, as it is seen
in those countries that are practicing it today, is a deadly menace.
The American Government and way of life that we people in America
have known, we have but to realize that we are today engaged in a
deadly struggle with that ideology. It has already taken the lives of
approximately 90,000 of the flower of American manhood. Daily
your boys and mine are being subjected to the loss of their lives and
limbs and the shedding of their blood for the sole and exclusive pur-
pose of seeking to halt the inroads and aggression of this powerful
influence that is abroad in this land of ours.
A person that has set his first steps on the pathway that leads in
the wrong direction and finds he has made a mistake and turns back
and rectifies it has all that honesty can do to make amends; I feel
that he is entitled to commendation of all liberty-loving American
people. I commend you for your stand in coming before this com-
mittee and giving us the benefit of your experience and your knowledge
concerning this.
Are there any further questions?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be
excused ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. It is so ordered.
Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Leo Bigelman.
Mr. Wood. Doctor, would you hold up your right hand and be
sworn? Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you are about to
give this subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Dr. Bigelman. I do.
Mr. Wood. I am going to ask the photographers to refrain from
taking pictures during the time the oath is being administered.
TESTIMONY OP DR. LEO BIGELMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, ROBERT W. KENNY AND BEN MARGOLIS
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please?
Dr. Bigelman. Leo Bigelman, M. D.
Mr. Wood. Dr. Bigelman, are you represented by counsel?
Dr. Bigelman. I am.
Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify themselves for the record?
Mr. Kenny. Robert Kenny and Ben Margolis.
Mr. Wood. Of the Los Angeles bar?
Mr. Kenny. Correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Bigelman, when and where were you born?
Dr. Bigelman. I was born in Poland, 1896, came to this country
in 1904 and have derivative citizenship and am an enlisted veteran of
the First World War.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE! INDUSTRY 1543
Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to this country ?
Dr. Bigelman. About 1904, as I recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee, please, in a gen-
eral way, what your educational training has been ?
Dr. Bigelman. I shall be very glad to do that. But since I have
it in my mind at the moment I would like to either introduce or read
a statement which I have prepared for this committee.
Mr. Wood. Very well, Doctor, just hand it to me and I will submit
it for the record.
Mr. Bigelman. I was graduated in the elementary and high schools
of the city of Detroit, Mich., had my premedical training there, got my
medical degree at what is now the Wayne University in the same city,
which at that time was the Detroit College of Medicine and Surgery,
and that was followed by the various hospitals and postgraduate work.
Mr. Tavenner. Where have you engaged in the practice of your
profession?
Mr. Bigelman. Well, I originally was a resident physician in the
city of Detroit, until the end of 1921. Since 1921, in California.
Mr. Tavenner. Where in California ?
Dr. Bigelman. Well, I am going to answer these questions, of course,
but I wonder what the practice of medicine has to do with the investi-
gation of so-called subversive activities in Hollywood. I mean, this
seems to imply that a patient and a doctor's politics are involved here,
or are they ?
Mr. Tavenner. I assure you it is not because of your being a doctor
that has occasioned your being called before this committee, but the
committee is anxious to know what your background is.
Dr. Bigelman. Well, I practiced medicine in Los Angeles most of
the time but I was in San Francisco for some 3 or 4 years in the early
twenties, have been in Los Angeles, I think, continuously from 1928
or 1929.
(Kepresentative Francis E. Walter returned to the hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. What phase of the practice of medicine are you
engaged in ?
Dr. Bigelman. Well, mostly general practice, except that I have
qualified in what is called internal medicine, as I handle diagnostic
problems. But I might say that if you want to ask me about any
phase of medicine which I have really specialized in, I think that I
have specialized in rather the relationship of medicine to living. I
have been interested in people getting the broadest and best medical
care. I have been particularly interested in medicine for the poorer
section of our population. I have been especially interested in seeing
that people of racial minorities and especially Negro people were not
discriminated against and consequently my practice has been directed
toward the social as well as the physical ability of my patients.
(Representative Charles E. Potter left the hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your full name, sir, please ?
Dr. Bigelman. Yes, certainly. B-i-g-e-1-m-a-n.
Mr. Tavenner. Your first name ?
Dr. Bigelman. Leo.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your business address ?
Dr. Bigelman. 5503 South Broadway. Does that mean that pa-
tients are instructed to come or not come to me at that address ?
1544 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. There is another Dr. Bigelman in the city, is there
not?
Dr. Bigelman. I see.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that right ?
Dr. Bigelman. Well, I am sure that there is another one. He
spells his name differently.
Mr. Tavenner. How does he spell his name ?
Dr. Bigelman. If I am not mistaken, he spells it B-e-i-g-e-1-m-a-n.
Mr. Tavenner. What is his first name ?
Dr. Bigelman. That I don't know. His initial is M.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, there is a question, don't you see, of identi-
fication.
Dr. Bigelman. In justice to him and in justice to myself, too, I
would say that clear identification would be desirable.
Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Bigelman, a schedule of the classes for the
winter of 1950 term of the California Labor School reflects the
name of a Dr. Leo Bigelman as an instructor. Are you the Dr.
Bigelman referred to as an instructor in that school ?
Dr. Bigelman. Well, you are raising my name in connection with
an organization which I have heard or believe has been labeled either
by this or other committees as on the subversive list. I therefore
must, in duty, decline on the grounds it might possibly tend to in-
criminate me and, therefore, invoke the privilege of the fifth amend-
ment and do decline to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been president of the board
of trustees of the People's Educational Center ?
Dr. Bigelman. The context
Mr. Tavener. In Los Angeles.
Dr. Bigelman. Well, the context of that question is the same as
the previous one. I really feel very sincerely and very strongly
that education of any type is a prerogative of our people but, inas-
much as certain types of education, apparently, does not meet with
the approval of this and other committees and is proscribed, I again
must and do decline to answer this question on the grounds of the
fifth amendment. I would like to say that in taking the ground of
the fifth amendment, I would very much appreciate introducing the
position of Justice Black — Supreme Court Justice Black, on the fifth
amendment so that my position may be clear. That is, that it is neither
an admission of guilt nor, for that matter, do I understand, is an im-
plication of innocence. Furthermore, that I am in no fear of con-
viction of anything, but there is possible fear or jeopardy of prosecu-
tion. Is that correct? I wanted that clearly understood when I
claimed the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, will you tell the committee, if you state that
there is no question of guilt involved in your answers, how you be-
came a member — how you became interested in these various or-
ganizations which I have mentioned? Let us take, first, the Cali-
fornia Labor School. Will you tell the committee, please, the circum-
stances under which you became connected with that institution.
Dr. Bigelman. Well, Mr. Tavenner, as long as you mention the
organization or organizations which I have already declined to ans-
wer, I shall continue to decline to answer on the same grounds. It
is my understanding of the fifth amendment that any attempt to
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1545
inquire as to the reasons for claiming it are not permissible and that
no inference can be drawn from claiming it. Further, that a ques-
tion inquiring as to the reasons for claiming it
Mr. Wood. Just a moment.
Dr. Bigelman. Are not pertinent.
Mr. Wood. On that score, I would like to disabuse your mind.
There isn't any such law as that in the amendment. To say that
to answer a question would tend to incriminate him and then in the
next breath to say that by saying that he doesn't leave any inference
that he is guilty, that to answer the question would incriminate him
is double talk; just plain double talk.
Dr. Bigelman. That is exactly why I wanted Justice Black's
opinion in the record.
Mr. Wood. It doesn't. The answer would incriminate you truth-
fully or it wouldn't. You can't blow hot and cold about it.
Dr. Bigelman. Mr. Wood, that is why I wanted to read from Su-
preme Court Justice Black's opinion.
Mr. Wood. The committee is perfectly familiar with the minority
opinion of Justice Black. You don't need to advise this committee
about it.
Dr. Bigelman. I am not trying to advise this committee. I am
merely trying to establish my own understanding of that section.
Mr. Wood. The answer to these questions would incriminate you
or they wouldn't. If you say they would
Dr. Bigelman. Well, I
Mr. Wood. Please spare us from the unduly inconsistent statement
that they wouldn't.
Dr. Bigelman. Well, sir
Mr. Wood. And then say they would. So let's just confine our
answers one way or the other without arguing the question, will you?
Proceed, counsel.
Dr. Bigelman. I think inferences may be personal but cannot be
official.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask you questions relating to various
other organizations which the staff of the committee understands that
you were connected with from time to time.
Dr. Bigelman. Well, would you please name them specifically. I
will give no general answers.
Mr. Tavenner. I propose to. Were you a member of the executive
board of the American League Against War and Fascism?
Dr. Bigelman. Well, I presume, Mr. Counsel, you are aware of
the fact by now that I must and do decline to answer that question
on previously stated grounds.
Mr. Wood. Do you ?
Dr. Bigelman. I said I must and I do.
Mr. Wood. All right.
Dr. Bigelman. You also know, of course, that the organization
referred to at the time it existed was considered one of the most pa-
triotic organizations in the country.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, were you connected with it during that period
of time ?
Dr. Bigelman. I think it is the same question, and I decline to
answer.
1546 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Well, you arc attempting to explain it. I want to
give you the opportunity to explain it fully.
Dr. Bigelman. Thank you.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you anything else you desire to say about your
affiliation with that organization?
Dr. Bigelman. At the moment, that is all the opinion I wish to
state.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, if it is a patriotic organization and was at the
time you may have been a member of it, what is your reason for
refusing to so state ?
Dr. Bigelman. Well, sir, under other conditions than in this hearing
room I probably would have no hesitation in so stating, but when an
organization which did patriotic service is labeled subversive and is
on the list of the subversive activities committee or the House Un-
American Activities Committee, then I am convinced in my own
opinion that an answer to that question might tend to incriminate
me, and, therefore, I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mi-. Tavenner. The committee has information that you in the
past have engaged in some political activities connected with the
Communist Party. I am referring particularly to your alleged sup-
port in 1936 of Emil Freed as candidate of the Communist Party in
an election in the fifty-seventh assembly district. Were you con-
nected in any way with the campaign or the support of Emil Freed on
that occasion?
Dr. Bigelman. Mr. Tavenner, I have been in this committee room
since- yesterday morning. I have been ashamed to be here during part
of the time in hearing the vindictive hysteria that was being whipped
up about this party. It has been labeled all sorts of things. There-
fore, it is rather obvious
Mr. Tavenner. You are referring to the Communist Party?
Dr. Bigelman. Well, that is what you said. It has been labeled
various things. I, therefore, of course, must and do decline to answer
that question on the basis of the fifth amendment, and I must at this
point also say that because of that any questions relating to the Com-
munist Party or in which that term is used will undoubtedly, in my
opinion, call for a declination to answer.
Mr. Wood. You can save
Dr. Bigelman. I have been sitting in this room, and I got the feeling
that if anyone, whether he was or was not or by any implication was
associated with it would tomorrow be taken out and lynched or some-
thing. I don't know. I think this is considerable jeopardy. I de-
cline to answer on the grounds I have stated.
Mr. Wood. Doctor, it will save a lot of time, of which you may not
have too much to spare — certainly we haven't — if, without a lecture in
this loom, you would simply answer the questions. We would appre-
ciate that also because the committee isn't concerned about your opinion
of the committee or its work.
Dr. Bigelman. Well, sir, it has been my opinion. If it weren't for
my opinions I wouldn't be here, and when I think
Mr. Wood. I am talking about your opinion of this committee or its
work.
Dr. Bigelman. I have not stated any opinion of this committee yet,
unless the committee wishes me to state my opinion of it.
COMMUNISM EST MOTION-PICTURE' INDUSTRY 1547
Mr. Wood. That is all you have been doing- for the past 5 minutes.
Mr. Tavenner. You have commented on the statements made by
various persons in this hearing room condemning the Communist
Party. Do you disagree with the words of criticism that you have
in your mind ?
Dr. Bigelman. Mr. Tavenner, I said that I have been in this room
and have heard various things and felt a certain atmosphere. I de-
cline to answer the question, the previous question, because of the pos-
sible tendency of self-incrimination. Now, this question, in my opin-
ion is a very similar question or perhaps even the same question.
Therefore, I again decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee is informed, Doctor, that you were
transferred from the medical branch of the professional section of the
Los Angeles County Communist Party to the North Hollywood Club
of the Los Angeles County Communist Party in 1943. Were you ever
a member of either of those clubs or sections of the Communist Party?
Dr. Bigelman. Well, Mr. Tavenner, Mr. Wood a few moments ago
admonished me to save time by not stating my opinions. I think that
is repetition of questions on that basis on which I am going to decline
and do decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment is
really a waste of time. I have stated that any questions with respect
to the Communist Party, because of the possibility that it might in-
criminate me, I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment and
decline to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend, in the summer of 1945, a California
state convention of the Communist Political Association ?
Dr. Bigelman. In my opinion, it is the same question. The same
declination to answer on the same ground.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information that
there was in existence what was known as a community club, a sub-
section of the Hollywood section of the Los Angeles County Commu-
nist Party, and that this community club met on one occasion at the
home of Dorothy Forrest on April 26, 1946, and that you were in
attendance at that committee and suggested how that section of the
council should be organized. Were you a member of that club, and
did you attend that meeting ?
Dr. Bigelman. Mr. Tavenner, isn't it obvious that this is another
form of the same question or a related question? I therefore refuse
to answer this on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the American-Russian Insti-
tute of Southern California?
Dr. Bigelman. It is a peculiar question. American-Russian Insti-
tute, of course, implies something that might have to do with improv-
ing relations between the two countries
Mr. Wood. Irrespective of what it imports, the question is, Are you
a member of it ?
Dr. Bigelman. Well, I ajn trying to formulate my answer, Mr.
Wood, and I have to do a little thinking before. In the practice of
medicine one thinks or the patient doesn't survive, and I would like
to apply the same principle here.
Mr. Wood. If you want time to concentrate, we would be glad to
give you the time to do it, but do it privately.
Dr. Bigelman. Well, I am concentrating out loud for the benefit of
the committee; that way I think they will understand my answers
1548 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
better; and I have heard testimony here to the effect that people are
not allowed to think elsewhere. I would hate to think that it were
true in this room. I want to think here, and if I want to think out
loud I should be permitted to think out loud. I have a recollection —
I could easily check, of course, or you could check for me — that this
organization is listed— —
Mr. Tavenner. Let me interrupt you a moment. I believe I have
put my question in the present tense, and it should be in the past tense,
of course. That is, whether or not you were at any time a member of
that organization.
Dr. Bigelman. I am inclined to think it is listed in your list of sub-
versive organizations, so labeled by this committee. I therefore re-
fuse to answer this question on the previously stated grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you, on July 7, 1945, go to the home of Albert
Maltz and there attend a meeting of the Communist Party which was
called for the purpose of discussing the Duclos letter?
Dr. Bigelman. I refuse to answer this question on the previously
stated grounds, although I would like to say at this time that I have
read much of Mr. Maltz' works. I think he is one of the great Ameri-
can novelists today and that some day our country is going to appreci-
ate him as, perhaps, it will appreciate very few men in our time.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time chairman of the disciplinary
committee of the Los Angeles County Communist Party?
Dr. Bkjelman. Now. Mr. Tavenner, after all the other questions, is
this one you think I am not going to refuse to answer? I refuse to
answer this question on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate
me, on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee would like to know from you
whether you have been associated in any particular work in the Com-
munist Party with any of the following-named persons: John Howe;
Ethel Holmstock; Dr. Samuel Marcus; Joseph Aidlin, A-i-d-1-i-n;
Mary Aidlin; Donald Murray; Norman Byrne, B-y-r-n-e.
Dr. Bigelman. You know, defending one's rights in the Constitu-
tion becomes a repetitious thing, and I am afraid I am going to be
repetitious. I refuse to answer this question on the grounds previ-
ously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it true that you, along with those persons, com-
prised the membership commission of the Communist Party in Los
Angeles at one time ?
(At this time Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the
room. )
Dr. Bigelman. This, in my opinion, is another version of the same
question. I therefore again refuse to answer this question on the pre-
viously stated grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee, Dr. Bigelman, is in possession of
information that in 1944 you were assigned a Communist Political
Association card No. 46157 and that in 1945, card No. 47411
Dr. Bigelman. Well, if the committee is in possession of such in-
formation, an answer from me is superfluous. I refuse to answer this
question on the grounds that it is asking me to testify against myself,
and on the grounds of the fifth amendment I need not incriminate
myself.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Dr. Bigelman. I refuse to answer the question on the same grounds.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1549
Mr. Ta venner. I have no further questions, Mr. Wood.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter? .
Mr. Tavenner. Just one moment, The previous witness, Mr. -Leo
Townsend. in the course of his testimony referred to you as having
taught a class in Marxism at which he and other members of the Com-
munist Party attended. Is that a truthful statement?
Dr. Bigelman. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of
the fifth amendment, although I think that within the construction
of the Constitution that teaching anything probably is perfectly all
right. I presume it is a question of what version of what is taught.
I do refuse to answer the question, however, on the ground of the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter?
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle ?
Mr. Doyle. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ?
Mr. Jackson. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused from
further attendance ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. So ordered.
Dr. Bigelman. May I ask a question before I may be excused ?
Mr. Wood. Witness is excused.
Dr. Bigelman. Thank you.
Mr. Wood. At this point we will take a recess. The committee will
stand in recess 20 minutes.
(A short recess was taken.)
Mr. Wood. Who do you have. Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Helen Slote Levitt.
Mr. Wood. Would you raise your right hand and be sworn. Do you
solemnly swear the evidence you give this subcommittee to be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth ?
Mrs. Levitt. I do.
Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel here ?
Mrs. Levitt. Yes ; I am.
Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify themselves for the record.
Mr. Kenny. Robert Kenny and Ben Margolis, of Los Angeles.
TESTIMONY OF HELEN SLOTE LEVITT, ACCOMPANIED BY HER
COUNSEL, ROBERT KENNY AND BEN MARGOLIS
Mr. Tavenner. You are Mrs. Helen Slote Levitt, I believe?
Mrs. Levitt. Yes ; I am. I have a statement. May I offer it ?
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mrs. Levitt?
Mrs. Levitt. In Brooklyn, N. Y., on December 6, 1916.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession or work ?
Mrs. Levitt. I am a housewife and a mother. Can you hear me
adequately ?
Mr. Tavenner. Speak up a little bit more, please. I believe the
photographers are about through.
Mrs. Levitt, will you spell your name, please?
1550 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mrs. Levitt. Helen, H-e-1-e-n ; Slote, S-1-o-t-e ; Levitt, L-e-v-i-t-t.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational training, Mrs.
Levitt?
Mrs. Levitt. I went through the public schools of Brooklyn, Pub-
lic School 161, Erasmus High School, and Brooklyn College, from
which I received a bachelor of arts degree. I believe that was in
1938.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been in Los Angeles ?
Mrs. Levitt. I think we came out here — I don't have a particularly
good memory of the dates, but I think it was around 1939. I know
it was the end of March, beginning of April, because I was on the
road my first anniversary, which was April 2, 1939.
Mr. Tavenner. You stated you were on the road.
Mrs. Levitt. I mean traveling across the country. We came in a
car.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you enter a profession?
Mrs. Levitt. I worked before I came out here.
Mr. Tavenner. What general type of work ?
Mrs. Levitt. Well, I had one job while I was at college. I did work
as a salesgirl part time, but when I completed college, in fact the day
after my last exam
Mr. Tavenner. Let me suggest that we confine it to the period of
time since you have been in Los Angeles.
Mrs. Levitt. Fine. Mostly — I have had a succession of secretarial
and administrative type jobs, terminating, it must have been, the
fall of 1945. I retired to raise a family. I haven't been gainfully
employed since then.
Mr. Tavenner. Since what date?
Mrs. Levitt. It must have been the end of October 1945, I went
east to meet my husband, who was coming back from overseas, and
after that I had two children and haven't worked. 1 have two children
now.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your last employment ?
Mrs. Levitt. It was a secretarial job for a theatrical group.
Mr. Tavenner. What theatrical group?
Mrs. Levitt. I shall have to decline, or, I'm sorry, I decline to
answer that question on the grounds of the first and fifth amend-
ments, in that it might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a secretary of John Garfield ?
Mrs. Levitt. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. In the testimony of Mr. Garfield before the Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities, on April 23 of this year, he testified
that you were his secretary.
(Counsel conferred with the witness.)
Mr. Tavenner. In the light of that statement by Mr. Garfield are
you willing to tell us now whether or not you were his secretary ?
Mrs. Levitt. My answer stands, if you don't mind. I would like
to keep my answer as it was.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend
Mr. Wood. I believe your answer would be a little bit more audible
if you could sit a little closer to the microphone.
Mrs. Levitt. Could I move the chair, please?
Mr. Tavenner. Your name before marriage was Helen Slote, was
it not?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE' INDUSTRY 1551
Mrs. Levitt. That is correct. Actually, I used the name Helen
Slote professionally during- the years that I worked.
Mr. Wood. You mean since your marriage?
Mrs. Levitt. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time executive secretary of Actors'
Laboratory ?
Mrs. Levitt. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of Actors' Laboratory and
active in its affairs at any time while you were employed in a secre-
tarial capacity by a theatrical group ?
Mrs. Levitt. Would you give me that again, please?
Mr. Tavenner. Were you active in the affairs of the Actors' Labo-
ratory at the same time that you were employed by a theatrical group,
as you stated a moment ago ?
Mrs. Levitt. It seems to be the same question so I think I will give
you the same answer, a refusal on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. WTere you the financial director of branch F of the
northwest section of the Communist Party of Los Angeles at any
time ?
Mrs. Levitt. Will you repeat that, please?
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a financial director of branch F of the
northwest section of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Levitt. I decline to answer that question on the ground of the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Or of any branch of the Communist Party?
Mrs. Levitt. I decline to answer that on the ground of the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever a delegate to a State Communist con-
vention, to be more particular, to the one held in Los Angeles Sep-
tember 24, 1944?
Mrs. Levitt. I decline to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you present at that convention ?
Mrs. Levitt. I decline to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time literary director of a club
of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Levitt. They all seem to be different forms of the same ques-
tion. I decline to answer on the ground that it might tend to incrimi-
nate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time obtain from the Lincoln Book
Shop literature for use in the Communist Party meetings?
Mrs. Levitt. I decline to answer on the same ground.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information in-
dicating that there was issued to you in 1944 a Communist Political
Association book No. 4G945. Were you issued a Communist Political
Association book?
Mrs. Levitt. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Marjorie Potts ?
Mrs. Levitt. I decline to answer that question on the grounds it
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a delegate to the Los Angeles County
Communist Party Convention of October 30-31, 1943?
Mr. Levitt. I decline to answer that on the grounds that it might
tend to incriminate me.
1552 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Levitt. I decline to answer that on the grounds that it might
tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party
at any time?
Mrs. Levitt. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter?
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Jackson. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter?
Mr. Potter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused from
further attendance ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wood. So ordered.
Mr. Tavenner. There is no reason for not being excused.
Mr. Wood. Very well.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Alfred Levitt.
Mr. Wood. Will you hold up your right hand, please. You sol-
emnly swear the evidence you give this subcommittee shall be the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Levitt. I do.
Mr. Wood. Have a seat. Are you represented by counsel, Mr.
Levitt?
Mr. Levitt. Yes, I am.
Mr. Wood. Will counsel again identify themselves.
Mr. Kenny. Robert Kenny and Ben Margolis, Los Angeles.
TESTIMONY OF ALFRED LEVITT, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,
ROBERT KENNY AND BEN MARGOLIS
Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Alfred Levitt ?
Mr. Levitt. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Levitt?
Mr. Levitt. I was born in New York City on June 3, 1916.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational background?
Mr. Levitt. I was educated in the elementary and high schools
of New York City and received a B. S. degree from New York Uni-
versity in 1937.
Mr. Tavenner. In a general way, what has been your employment
background ?
Mr. Levitt. Well, I came out here in about 1939, and my employ-
ment-background, generally, has included work as a reader in the
studios, and until the time I entered the Army, and upon my return
from overseas I worked as a free-lance writer at various studios.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever affiliated with the Young Commu-
nist League ?
Mr. Levitt. I will decline to answer this question on the grounds
that an answer might tend to incriminate me.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1553
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that you were a
member of the Communist Party here in Hollywood. I would like
to ask you whether or not that is true. If it is, I would like to ask
you further questions relating to your knowledge about the Com-
munist Party activities in the Hollywood industry.
Mr. Levitt. Any questions that deal with possible knowledge on my
part of the Communist Party or any other organization which is in-
cluded in your list of subversive organizations I will decline to answer
on the grounds provided by the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, that is not quite in response to my
question.
Mr. Levitt. Well, will you make it more specific and I will give my
response to it.
Mr. Tavenner. My question is, Were you at any time ever a member
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Levitt. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that I
have just stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Levitt. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter, any questions?
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. You mentioned, Mr. Levitt, the list of organizations.
What list do you refer to?
Mr. Levitt. I referred to the list that I have seen, that I believe
is the | receiving document from Attorney Ben Margolis]
Mr. Doyle. Your counsel has just given you a booklet,
Mr. Levitt. Yes. This is the list that I am referring to.
Mr. Doyle. Have you read the list?
Mr. Levitt. I have not read it.
Mr. Doyle. How do you know, then-
Mr. Levitt. I haven't read all the pages of it.
Mr. Doyle. The organizations are listed?
Mr. Levitt. But I have gone through it, and a number of these
organizations I have seen in other records. Also, I have read previous
testimony that has appeared here in the course of hearings held by
this committee and
Mr. Doyle. What organizations did you note in there? Tell me
the names of the organizations that you noticed in there that were
listed as subversive.
Mr. Levitt. It is a bit difficult for me to distinguish now between
(hose organizations which I read in this booklet and those which I
read in the various
Mr. Doyle. When did you read the list of those in that booklet
which you have in your hand from your attorney? How long ago?
Mr. Levitt. Oh, I have read it from— I have seen this booklet
within the past several weeks.
Mr. Doyle. You didn't answer my question, please. I asked you
when you read the list of organizations in that book.
Mr. Levitt. I have not said at any time that I have read the list
of organizations that is in this book.
Mr. Doyle. Well, then, I misunderstood you.
1554 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Levitt. I beg your pardon. That is a misunderstanding. What
I did say in relation to your earlier questions was that it is difficult
for me to distinguish between those organizations which I have read
about in the reports of testimony that has taken place in previous
hearings of this committee in which it has been mentioned that
various organizations are listed in this book and those which I actually
did see in the book, itself.
Mr. Doyle. What organizations in previous hearings of this com-
mittee did you hear were listed in that book? Give me the name of
any organization that you previously heard as a result of newspapers
or otherwise to be listed in this book which you now have in your
hand — just given you by your lawyer. Give me the name of one.
Mr. Levitt. One such organization is the Hollywood Writers'
Mobilization.
Mr. Doyee. Give me the name of another.
Mr. Levitt. One' other, I believe, is the Arts, Sciences and Profes-
sions Council.
Mr. Doyle. When did you hear that that was ever listed as sub-
versive? How long ago, in any previous hearing before this com-
mittee?
Mr. Levitt. I said earlier that it was difficult for me to distinguish
between learning of the attitude of this committee toward these organ-
izations from reading their names in this book or from reading in the
accounts of previous testimony, and I cannot give you a certain an-
swer to that particular question.
Mr. Doyee. Well, 1 judged you couldn't from your former answer.
That is why I have taken your time and mine to ask you, to see how
definite you were in that field of reply to the question. Now, you have
the book before you that has just been given you by your attorney,
Mr. Margolis. Point out, please, there the name of the organization
that you just quoted. Have you ever seen it actually listed in that
book ? If you have, refer to the same page where you found it before,
please, and read us the name of the organization. I see you are look-
ing at the book. Do you need the help of your attorney to find it?
Mr. Margolis. Is there any objection to my giving him help, Mr.
Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. I am asking him — I assume he saw it in that book
before, and if he did I assume he knows where to turn again.
Mr. Levitt. I never said that I memorized this book in such a way
that I could find anything I saw in it.
Mr. Doyle. I think you said you saw it, sir, and therefore
Mr. Levitt. That's correct.
Mr. Doyle. I assume that you are capable of turning to the book
again without your attorney directing your attention to the page
where it is listed?
Mr. Levitt. If you have objections — my attorney is helping us, I'm
sure.
Mr. Doyle. I think you are perfectly able to find it again if you
ever found it before. I know your attorney is capable of finding it.
Mr. Levitt. It seems to me that for a committee to travel 3,000
miles here to find out whether I am able to use a catalog that is alpha-
betically arranged
COMMUNISM UN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1555
Mr. Doyle. I assure you, young man, that that is not our purpose
at all.
Mr. Levitt. I see.
Mr. Doyle. But the way you answered me led me to believe that
you were not quite accurate in your answer. Therefore I am not
presuming upon your intelligence nor credulity or anything of the
sort in asking you again to point out the name of the organization
that you said you saw in this book.
Mr. Levitt. On page 5G of this book a — I beg your pardon. On
page 57 of this book there is listed —
Hollywood Writers' Mobilization cited as subversive and Communist. Attorney
General Tom Clark, Letters to Loyalty Review Board, released December 4,
1947, and September 21, 1948. Cited as a Communist-front organization whose
"true purpose" was "the creation of a clearing house for Communist propaganda."
California Committee on Un-American Activities Report 1945, page 130.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you. Now, can you turn to the name of any
other organization that you noted in that book ever before ?
Mr. Levitt. I told you earlier, and I will repeat it again, that it
is very difficult for me to distinguish between the sources of having
learned that this committee considers one organization or another
subversive. On some occasions it may have been from this book and
on some occasions from reading the testimony. I can't recall on
which occasion in relation to which particular organization. It is
a rather — —
Mr. Doyle. When did you ever on any other occasion note on that
page the name of that organization which you just read? When on
any other occasion before just now ?
Mr. Levitt. Well, in consultation with my attorneys this book was
shown me.
Mr. Doyle. Within the last week or two ?
Mr. Levitt. Within the last few weeks.
Mr. Doyle. Well, that is what I assumed when I asked you these
questions, which is all right. You have the perfect right to counsel.
Don't misunderstand me.
Mr. Levitt. Sir, I could not quite understand what the nature of
your question was leading to.
Mr. Doyle. Well, I was directing that question to the first time
you ever noticed that list or that organization. Now, is that the
only organization which you noticed in that book before a week ago
when you were in counsel with your attorneys?
Mr. Levitt. No ; I noticed others.
Mr. Doyle. What others?
Mr. Levitt. I thumbed through it. I can't recall which ones I
noticed from this book.
Mr. Doyle. That was a week ago. Were you looking for names
of organizations of which you were a member at that time which
might have been held subversive when you referred to that book, or
for some other purpose?
Mr. Levitt. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that
it might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Doyle. Of course, the reason I have asked you about that book
is that you have referred to it as a book in which there is listed organ-
1 Guide to Subversive Organizations and Publications, prepared and released by the
Committee on Un-American Activities. March 3, 1951. (Reference found on pase 59 of
revised document printed under same tide, as House Document lP.T, May 14, 1951.)
81595 — 51— pt. 4 10
1556 COMMUNISM EN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
izations either declared subversive by this committee or by the Attor-
ney General of the United States, you having said that you referred
to the book. Therefore, I felt that I had a perfect right without
being anything but fair to you, to see really what you had ever no-
ticed in that book. I just want to say this, young man, to you, as
a young man. You said you just returned from World War II, and
I noticed your wife said that she had stopped working in gainful
work to raise a family.
Mr. Levitt. That's right.
Mr. Doyle. I want to commend you both on that high purpose, but
as an older man who lost his son in the last war, and I did, I want
to just urge you as a young man who has received the benefits of
our great Nation, if you are a member of the Communist Party, for
God's sake get out of it and be true to the Constitution of the United
States.
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Levitt, I think you said you were in the Army.
Mr. Levitt. That's correct.
Mr. Jackson. When did your Army service commence?
Mr. Levitt. It commenced in December of 1942, 1 oelieve, and — can
I refer to my discharge here ?
Mr. Jackson. Just generally.
Mr. Levitt. I got my discharge, I believe, in January of 1946.
Mr. Jackson. What was your rank upon discharge?
Mr. Levitt. Sergeant,
Mr. Jackson. Would you willingly serve in the Armed Forces of
this country again if it became necessary to do so, even though it might
involve conflict with the Soviet Union?
Mr. Levitt. I believe — I must say, in preface to my answer, as -a
matter of fact as part of my answer, that this question has occurred
before in this room and has the design of facing a witness with the
alternatives of either appearing to jump on the bandwagon for what I
consider the destruction of civilization, or else to appear in the light
of someone who is not willing to fulfill his obligations as a citizen.
Now, I have always fulfilled my obligations as a citizen, to the best
of my ability, and I always intend to fulfill my obligations as a citizen
to the best of my ability.
Mr. Jackson. Do you think, Mr. Levitt, that one of the obligations
of your citizenship is service in the military forces?
Mr. Levitt. It may be ; it is possible. And when I am called upon
to serve in the military
Mr. Jackson. It is quite definitely an obligation of citizenship to
serve your country in time of need.
Mr. Levitt. Perhaps I should make the distinction that I feel very
strongly, and perhaps it will explain a little bit more about my answer.
I feel that since World War II an entirely new element has entered
the world in the form of atomic weapons which now makes the possi-
bility of war completely different from anything which was ever
known to history before, in that the consideration of war, I believe,
is a consideration of the destruction — entire destruction of civiliza-
tion. 1 feel, therefore, that efforts should be bent entirely in the
direction of securing peace.
Mi-. Jackson. Have you ever expressed yourself as being opposed
to the Soviet foreign policy of its actions abroad? Are yon opposed
to the Soviet policy as compared to the American policy?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE' INDUSTRY 1557
Mr. Levitt. If you are asking me to express an opinion on foreign
policy, let me tell yon that I cannot answer it that simply as to say
I am in favor, for example, of American policy. There are aspects
of American policy with which I am in agreement and certain aspects
with which I am not in agreement. I believe
Mr. Jackson. Do you support American foreign policy in Korea?
Mr. Levitt. If you mean do I approve of the
Mr. Jackson. I have reference to the entrance and participation of
United Nations troops as opposed to the puppet troops of North
Korea and the Chinese Reds. Do you approve American and United
Nations action, or do you disapprove that commitment?
Mr. Levitt. If President Truman had called me that day in June, I
believe it was, and asked me whether I approved sending troops in, I
would have said, uNo, I don't; wait." I think that the risking and
actual expenditure of lives here was something that I would not be
in favor of rushing into. I would much rather have waited and dis-
cussed this in terms — used every effort of conference tables to try to
prevent such a thing.
Mr. Jackson. Suppose President Truman had not asked you for
your opinion but only for your services in Korea. Would you serve?
Mr. Levitt. I would obey the law.
Mr. Jackson. You would serve in Korea if called?
Mr. Levitt. If I had been called to serve in Korea I would have
served.
Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter.
Mr. Potter. Mr. Levitt, if your feelings about war and the fact
that a general world war now would be most destructive to civiliza-
tion— which we all fear, however, many of us also have a greater fear
of losing our freedom — I am wondering if your views would be the
same if the United States should be attacked by Franco Spain.
Mr. Levitt. My views on peace would be the same, yes; in any case.
I feel that the possibility of considering attack and any possibility
of world-wide war would be absolutely disastrous to civilization in its
entirety. I feel that elements — I would like to refer back a little bit
to Mr. Jackson's question about foreign policy, and I believe that this
is terribly important to the way I feel and the way I have testified
before this committee, and that is that I feel that every person, every
individual, every group, has the right to any opinion. In the areas of
opinion, the areas of speech and the areas of association should
have complete freedom. 1 think people are responsible and should be
held accountable for their acts. Now, I don't think that those rights
should be diminished on the basis of the judgment of these opinions by
any one group, or even by the popularity throughout the country at any
given time because such popularities change with time and the effect
of diminishing such freedoms is that although there may be a minority
affected by this it also affects the majority because then the majority is
afraid, becomes cautious about its thoughts and opinions for fear that
they will be interpreted in another way.
Mr. Potter. Of course, you realize, as well as I, that the suppres-
sion of opinion in a Communist-dominated country, and within the
Communist Party itself, it is much more severe than any suppression
of opinion that you would ever get or ever find in a democracy such
as we have here.
1558 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Levitt. What I realize mostly is that this is my country, to
which I give my allegiance, and this is the country whose imperfec-
tions, when they exist, I wish to do everything I can to right, accord-
ing to how I see it. I feel that any attempt to prevent me from doing
so by blacklist, by official censure, or anything else tends to prevent
the free exchange of ideas upon which this country is based. It
doesn't make any difference if you should set examples of others who
do not agree with these ideas. This does not diminish my belief in
my ideas at all.
Mr. Potter. The very organ in which you wish to find expression
for the opinions that you have just stated certainly can't be found in
the Communist Party.
Mr. Levitt. This is a statement?
Mr. Potter. I am not asking a question; I am just making a state-
ment.
I have no further questions.
Mr. Levitt. Whether or not this is true, this still does not affect
my belief.
Mr. Potter. I know. It is a discussion. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Any further questions, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
I would like to ask you, Mr. Levitt, what screen credits you have
acquired while a writer, or the principal ones.
Sir. Levitt. My name appears on a film called the Boy With Green
Hair; a script called the Wild Country, which is not yet produced;
and a film called Shakedown; on a film called Mrs. Mike; and on a
script which is now in preparation called Dream Wife.
Mr. Tavenner. Did I understand you to say that for a period of
time you served in the capacity of a reader?
Mr. Levitt. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Where was that service performed?
Mr. Levitt. I first engaged in what is called outside reading. I
don't know whether this is familiar to the committee or not. It is kind
of a complicated procedure which has been done away with now.
The studios all have their regular reading staffs, and there was a
certain amount of work which would be beyond the capacity of their
regular staffs, and there was a corps of outside readers developed
who wanted to eventually become staff readers. Through the Readers'
Guild the studio reading department heads would have a list of people,
as they were available, and they would be assigned to read and synop-
size a piece of work. I did this for a period of time. Then I was
hired at Selznick Studios on a rather special project that was not re-
lated to films actually. I believe Mr. Selznick at that time, whom I
have never met, was looking for a play for some theater project that
he had up-State in Santa Barbara. After that I became a staff reader
at Paramount.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you serve as a staff reader and when?
Mr. Levitt. I believe that it was 1941 and 1942. I know that it
ended in 1942 because I went into the Army from Paramount, and I
believe it began in 1941.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the
time you served as a staff reader?
Mr. Levitt. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1559
Mr. Tavenner. Did you work for the same employer during that
entire time when you served as a staff reader?
Mr. Levitt. You mean the same immediate superior? Yes; the
same place, Paramount Pictures.
Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time did you attempt on any
occasion to influence the studio in accepting any script which was
slanted, to your knowledge, according to the Communist Party line ?
Mr. Levitt. I believe that anybody who attempted to influence the
purchase of a script on the basis of its slant in any direction would not
last very long in his job. The attempt, at least, is made to purchase
scripts on the basis of merit so that the slant of a script, the political
attitude of a script, could never in itself, or at least at that time could
never influence its purchase.
Mr. Tavenner. Now will you answer my question, please ?
Mr. Levitt. Would you repeat the question, please ?
Mr. Tavenner. Would you read the question to the witness.
The reporter read the question as follows :
Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time did yon attempt on any occasion
to influence the studio in accepting any script which was slanted, to your
knowledge, according to the Communist Party line?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Will you please indicate that the witness is con-
ferring with counsel.
Mr. Levitt. I beg your pardon ?
Mr. Tavenner. I asked the reporter to always indicate when the
witness was conferring with counsel.
Mr. Levitt. I have never attempted to influence the purchase of any
script on the basis of its slant in any direction.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you, in your reading, approve or recommend
for acceptance any script that you knew was prepared by a member
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Levitt. I can't even recall now as a reader — one covers a great
many manuscripts in the course of a week. This was — I ended my
work as a reader in 1942, 9 years ago.
Even if it were so, that I had any basis, or any opinion about the
writer of the script, I can't remember which scripts I recommended
and which I didn't.
Mr. Tavenner. But you do remember the individuals who prepared
the scripts, do you not ?
Mr. Levitt. No ; I don't recall the scripts that I covered as a reader.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not any script that you
covered as a reader was written or prepared by a person known to
you to be a member of the Communist Party \
Mr. Levitt. In order to recall such a thing, there would have to be
an indication on my part of knowledge or acquaintance with member-
ship in the Communist Party, and I don't intend to answer such ques-
tions which would have such implication. Therefore, I decline to
answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Namely, that to answer it might tend to incrimi-
nate you ?
Mr. Levitt. That's right ; an answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. That's all.
Mr. Levitt. Before I am excused, I forgot to ask to have my state-
ment received.
1560 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why this witness shouldn't be ex-
cused from further attendance?
Mr. Tavenner. No.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Jackson. Are you presently employed ?
Mr. Levitt. No ; I'm not.
Mr. Jackson. No further questions.
Mr. Wood. You will be excused.
Mr. Tavenner. Miss Bess Taffel.
Mr. Wood. Are you Miss Taffel ?
Miss Taffel. I am.
Mr. Wood. Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn.
Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you will give this sub-
committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God ?
Miss Taffel. I do.
Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ?
Miss Taffel. I am.
Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record.
Mr. Wirin. A. L. Wirin, Los Angeles.
TESTIMONY OF BESS TAFFEL, ACCOMPANIED BY HER COUNSEL,
A. L. WIRIN
Mr. Wood. During the course of your interrogation you are allowed
to confer with your counsel any time you desire. You have the privi-
lege of conferring with your client at any time you may deem proper.
Mr. Wirin. May we have a moment to have the pictures out of the
way?
Mr. Wood. Yes ; I will give the photographers a moment.
Mr. Wirin. May I say that I think I have a photogenic witness
here.
Mr. Tavenner. You are Miss Bess Taffel ?
Miss Taffel. I am.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Miss Taffel ?
Miss Taffel. December 10, 1913, in Boston, Mass.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to Los Angeles?
Miss Taffel. In the fall of 1938, 1 believe.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you been engaged in work in Los Angeles
since that time?
Miss Taffel. Yes. I am a screen writer.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee briefly what your edu-
cational training has been for your profession?
Miss Taffel. I was educated mostly in the public schools of New
York City. I have a bachelor of arts degree from Hunter College of
New York City and a master of arts degree from the University of
Southern California in this city.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you obtain your master's degree in Cali-
fornia ?
Miss Taffel. I believe it was in 1940.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee what has been the
nature of your work since 1940?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1561
Miss Taffel. I worked as a free-lance writer in most of the studios;
and at Goldwyirs, which is an independent; and I was under contract
to RKO for about 3y2 years; a little less than that.
Mr. Tavenner. Over what period of time was that?
Miss Taffel. The contract?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. What period of time were you employed
there?
Miss Taffel. At RKO?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Miss Taffel. I believe it began in October of 1944 and ended in
January of 1948.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you had any other employment as a screen
writer besides that which you have mentioned since 1940 — since 19 —
yes; since 1940.
Miss Taffel. I worked on television pictures.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, how have you been employed since 1948?
Miss Taffel. Since 1948?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; when you said it was the end of your contract
with RKO.
Miss Taffel. Oh. Well, I have since again worked as a free-lance
writer at three studios. I think Warner Bros., Columbia, and Fox.
Mr. Tavenner. Miss Taffel, we heard in the testimony here this
morning of Mr. Leo Townsend that you were a member of the Com-
munist Party while engaged in work here in Hollywood studios. We
would like to know whether or not it is true, and if it is, we want your
cooperation in telling this committee all that you can regarding the
operations of the Communist Party in this area, particularly in con-
nection with the movie industry.
Miss Taffel. Mr. Tavenner, I claim the privilege against self-in-
crimination on that question. I decline to answer it.
Mr. Tavenner. And I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter, any questions ?
Mr. Walter. No.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle ?
Mr. Doyle. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson, any questions?
Mr. Jackson. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter?
Mr. Potter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused from
further testimony?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. So ordered. Any further witnesses ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Herbert Klein.
Mr. Wood. Are you Mr. Herbert Klein ?
Mr. Klein. I am.
Mr. Wood. Raise your right hand, please, sir, and be sworn. You
solemnly swear the testimony you shall give this subcommittee shall
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?
Mr. Klein. I do.
Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Klein ?
Mr. Klein. Yes, I am.
Mr. Wood. Please identify yourself.
Mr. Kelly. Robert Kenny, Los Angeles.
1562 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
TESTIMONY OF HERBERT ARTHUR KLEIN. ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, ROBERT KENNY
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, sir ?
Mr. Klein. As soon as the pictures are over.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Klein. Sir?
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please, sir I
Mr. Klein. Yes. Herbert Arthur Klein.
Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell your last name ?
Mr. Klein. K-1-e-i-n.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Klein ?
Mr. Klein. In New York City, 1907, January 7.'
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee what your educa-
tional background has been?
Mr. Klein. Yes. Grammar and high schools in Los Angeles ; Stan-
ford University, A. B. degree.
Mr. Tavenner. When were you at Stanford ?
Mr. Klein. Until 1928. Occidental College, master's degree.
Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me. Will you raise your voice a little. It is
hard for me to hear with the fans over to my left.
Mr. Klein. Yes, sure. Occidental College, master's degree. Gradu-
ate work in European universities and at Columbia University.
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you receive graduate work in Europe ?
Mr. Klein. I had several semesters in German universities in the
city of Berlin.
Mr. Tavenner. What university ?
Mr. Klein. The University of Berlin, itself, and the Handels-
Hochschule, which is the equivalent of a graduate school of business
or economics. .
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name of the institution.
Mr. Klein. Surely. H-a-n-d-e-1-s — H-o-c-h-s-c-h-u-l-e.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive a degree or degrees as a result of
the graduate work ?
Mr. Klein. No, no further degrees beyond the master's.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, what was the year in which you completed
your graduate work in Germany?
Mr. Klein. 1933.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain in Germany after the
completion of your work?
Mr. Klein. Oh, I believe I left very shortly thereafter. I left
Germany, if I am not mistaken, in April of 1933. April or May.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you return at that time to the United States?
Mr. Klein. Well, no.
Mr. Tavenner. When you say you left Germany
Mr. Klein. Yes. No, I was engaged in newspaper work, also, and
from Germany I went to London where I continued in newspaper
work for a number of months.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, what type of newspaper work were you en-
gaged in ?
Mr. Klein. I was working for news services. I was working for
the Chicago Tribune at the time.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you return to the United States?
Mr. Klein. In the latter part of the summer of 1933.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE' INDUSTRY 1563
Mr. Tavenner. Since returning to the United States how have you
been employed?
Mr. Klein. My employment has been chiefly as a teacher. I have
also had employment in newspaper and news service work.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your employment in newspaper and
news service work ?
Mr. Klein. Well, may I just give the most important instances?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. We may differ on the question of impor-
tance, so I would like for you to name all the newspapers that you
have worked for.
Mr. Klein. I see. Well, I have had employment of varying dura-
tions for the French Kadio News Service in New York; with the
Los Angeles Daily News ; for the newspaper PM as a correspondent ;
and for the San Francisco Call-Bulletin and some other publications
of a trade-union nature.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you worked at any time in any capacity for a
publication of the Communist Party ? By that, I am not indicating
that I have information that that is correct.
Mr. Klein. Publication of the Communist Party?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. The New Masses, for instance, was recognized
as a publication, an official organ of the Communist Party. So was
the Daily Worker and
Mr. Klein. I see.
Mr. Tavenner. Various other papers with which you are no doubt
familiar.
Mr. Klein. Well, I am not intimately familiar with the definitions
and the ramifications of the listing of subversive organizations or
publications, and I decline to give an answer to this question on the
grounds of possible self-incrimination and a privilege as granted
me under the fifth amendment of the Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, what was your last newspaper assignment ?
Mr. Klein. Pardon me just a moment. Are you referring to my
latest employment by a daily newspaper ?
Mr. Tavenner. Well, we will take that first.
Mr. Klein. I mean, I don't wish to be hair-splitting, but I would
like to know the nature of your question.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Well, let's take that first, daily newspapers.
Mr. Klein. That's right. The last time I worked for a daily news-
paper, to the best of my recollection, was for the Los Angeles Daily
News.
Mr. Tavenner. When was that?
Mr. Klein. That was until — that was approximately July of 1945,
or possibly August.
Mr. Tavenner. Then will you state your last employment with a
news service of any other character, other than a daily paper?
Mr. Klein. I see. Well, I must decline to answer that question on
the grounds of possible self-incrimination and the rights guaranteed
me under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Wood. Well, that doesn't require you to decline to answer.
Mr. Klein. I beg your pardon ?
Mr. Wood. There isn't any compulsion.
Mr. Klein. No, I understand. The phraseology called for is I do
decline to answer as previously stated.
1564 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold any office or position in any newspaper
or news service ?
Mr. Klein. Office or position ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; such as an editor of a paper, a business mana-
ger or any other position with a news publication or news service.
(Witness consults with counsel.)
Mr. Klein. Oh, I see. You mean a position of some authority or
executive position ?
Mr. Tavenner. Well, of course, I used it in a rather broad sense.
Mr. Klein. Well, I was wondering if you meant that being office
bo}' was a position, also ?
Mr. Tavenner. Oh, no. I wouldn't accuse you of being an office
boy, see.
Mr. Klein. I wouldn't take it amiss if you did.
Mr. Tavenner. Let us forget about any menial positions of that
character, but I am speaking of a position such as an editor, the head
of a news organization, or a position comparable to that.
Mr. Klein. I see. Well, I decline to answer that on the grounds
previously stated. I decline to answer on the grounds that I have
previously given.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you the head of the Federated Press in
1944
Mr. Klein. I decline
Mr. Tavenner. In Los Angeles?
Mr. Klein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of
possible self-incrimination and the rights guaranteed me" under the
fifth amendment of the Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you contribute articles to the New Masses at
any time ?
Mr. Klein. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, we have talked about your employment record
in the newspaper field and in the news service field.
Mr. Klein. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. You said you also have been part-time teacher.
Will you tell us more about your occupation and your work as a
teacher ?
Mr. Klein. Yes. I was a member of the faculty of Los Angeles
City College from 1938 until, I believe, the latter part of December
1941. Just after Pearl Harbor. And I returned to teaching in the
junior college field in February of 1949 and continued until the close
of the summer just ended — just ending.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, where was that ?
Mr. Klein. At the junior college, El Camino Junior College.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, in addition to your employment in the news-
paper field and as a teacher, were you employed in the motion-picture
industry in any capacity at any time?
Mr. Klein. I had some employment as a member of the publicity
organizations of three or four motion-picture studios. This was in
the period, I believe, between the beginning of 1945 — I beg your par-
don— between the beginning of 1935 and, I think, the close of 1938.
It was all within that general period. I worked as what it known as
a unit man. That is to say, I gathered news stories about motion
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE' INDUSTRY 1565
pictures then in production. These stories were then supplied to
newspapers and news services throughout the country.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been employed by the United States
Government ?
Mr. Klein. Yes. I have.
Mr. Tavenner. In what capacity and where ?
Mr. Klein. I was employed during 1942 in the United States De-
partment of Agriculture, and during approximately the first 5 or 6
months of 1943 in the WPB.
Mr. Tavenner. War Production Board?
Mr. Klein. That's correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, where did you serve in your first position in
the Agriculture Department? Where did you serve?
Mr. Klein. My regular place of employment was Washington,
D. C, although I was sent out a number of times on field trips in var-
ious parts of the country.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the general nature of your duties while
in that Government employment?
Mr. Klein. Well, this was a research position designed to assist in
securing the necessary farm labor, the distribution of farm labor neces-
sary to provide for harvesting of all the crops during the war period.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, what was the nature of your duties while
employed by the War Production Board?
Mr. Klein. I had an editorial position, and my duties included the
preparation of articles for a magazine known as, I believe it was, War
Production, a weekly publication, a review of progress in the field of
production.
(Representative Douald L. Jackson left the hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. In the performance of that work, were you given
access to any classified information ?
(Witness consults counsel.)
Mr. Klein. Would you kindly explain what you mean by classified
information?
Mr. Tavenner. Well, if your position was to write on subjects deal-
ing with the activities of the War Production Board, as you have
stated. I would like to know just what access you had to information
with the War Production Board which might be of a classified or
secret character.
Mr. Klein. I see. Well, I don't recall the designations of the ma-
terial. My work consisted almost entirely of preparing graphical
presentations and charts and, to a lesser extent, of rewriting; that is,
supplying the wording for material that had already been chosen by
the editor.
Mr. Tavenner. Did your work involve the preparation of articles
for publication in the public press or for use by the personnel of the
War Production Board?
Mr. Klein. I believe that the circulation of this magazine was for
the purpose of the personnel of the War Production Board and certain
other Government officials with whom I was not cognizant. I was in
no way aware of the actual subscription or circulation list.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, is it correct to say that the general character
of that work was of a restricted nature as far as the use of it was
concerned ?
1566 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
"Mr. Klein. I cannot — I can't answer as to
(Consulting with counsel.)
I'm sorry ; I was about to say I cannot give an answer as to the use
to which this information was put. It was my understanding, from
the character of the publication, that it was designed to provide a
rather rapid and quick survey for the benefit of officials interested in
war production.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the date of your going to the War Pro-
duction Board?
Mr. Klein. I believe that it was in February of 1943.
Mr. Tavenner. When you entered upon your Government em-
ployment with the War Production Board, did you sign an affidavit
or make an oath that you were not a member of any organization de-
voted to the principle of overthrowing the Government of the United
States ?
Mr. Klein. I cannot recall whether I had any such oath or affirma-
tion at that particular juncture because my work — my position was
a transfer from another Government agency.
Mr. Tavenner. Had you been required to sign such an affidavit
when you first entered into the Agriculture Department?
Mr. Klein. It is my recollection that that took place approximately
January of 1942.
Mr. Tavenner. Then your entire file, including your oath, would
have been transferred to your new department ?
(Representative Clyde Doyle left the room at this point.)
Mr. Klein. I was not in the Personnel Division. I cannot give
an answer to that question.
Mr. Tavenner. When you entered upon your work with the War
Production Board, were you a member of any organization devoted
to the overthrow of the United States Government?
Mr. Klein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of
the fifth amendment and the first amendment to the Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of any organization devoted
to the principle of the overthrow of the Government of the United
States while you were a teacher in the junior college which you referred
to a moment ago, El Camino Junior College ? '
Mr. Klein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds previ-
ously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of any organization devoted to
the overthrow of the Government of the United States when you re-
turned to the United States from Germany ?
Mr. Klein. Are you referring to the year 1933 ?
Mr. Tavenner. Whatever date it was when you returned from the
completion of your
Mr. Walter. He said April 1933.
Mr. Tavenner. April 1933, I am advised.
Mr. Klein. As a matter of fact I believe it was August, but that's
not the point. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously
stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you used any name other than the name
which you have given to the committee here today?
Mr. Klein. Declination to answer on the same grounds as previously
given.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1567
Mr. Tavenner. Isn't it a fact that you were known in the Commu-
nist Party by the name of James Hall, and that was your Communist
Party name :i
Mr. Klein. I decline to answer that and all similar questions on the
grounds of the right assured me under the fifth amendment of the
Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information, Mr.
Klein, that in 1938 you were one of the organizers of what was known
as unit 140 of the professional section of the Communist Party of
Los Angeles, which unit was made up of Communists who belonged
to the Newspaper Guild in Los Angeles. Were you one of the or-
ganizers of that unit ?
Mr. Klein. I decline to answer that on the same grounds as previ-
ously given.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you inform this committee as to any fact that
you have, or that you know, relating to the membership in such a
section of the Communist Party of members of the Newspaper Guild
in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Klein. May I ask you to repeat that question, please?
Mr. Tavenner. Will you read the question, please.
(The reporter read the pending question.)
Mr. Klein. I decline to answer that on the same ground as previ-
ously given.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you make a report to a Communist Party unit
meeting held at the home of Rose Boyd in Los Angeles, relating to the
Communist Party State convention which had been held in San Fran-
cisco earlier in the month of May 1938 ?
Mr. Klein. I decline to answer on the grounds of possible self-
incrimination and the rights assured me under the fifth amendment
of the Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Nathan Gregory Silver-
master ?
Mr. Klein. He was the chief of the Labor Division of the Farm
Security Administration in the United States Department of Agricul-
ture for a good share of the year 1942.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you employed under him in your work in the
Agriculture Department ?
Mr. Klein. Yes. He wasn't my immediate superior, but he was
the Chief of the Division.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you visit him at his home ?
Mr. Klein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of
my rights under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Victor Perlo?
Mr. Klein (conferring with counsel) . I decline to answer that ques-
tion on the grounds previously stated.
(The witness further conferred with counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. How long were you acquainted with Mr. Silver-
master (
Mr. Klein. I decline to answer that question on the previously
stated grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you first meet him ?
Mr. Klein. I decline again on the grounds I have already stated.
Mr. Tavenner. May I call to your attention, and your counsel's
attention, for his consideration, that you have waived any possible
1568 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
immunity you may have to answering questions relating to Silver-
master because you have admitted that you knew him. So I repeat
the question : When did you first meet Mr. Silvermaster ?
Mr. Kenny. I think, in fairness to the witness, an examination
of the record will not reflect any such admission that the witness
knew Mr. Silvermaster. He worked in a department where he was.
Mr. Klein. I understood you to mean personal acquaintance when
you say, "Did you know him."
(At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the
hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. I may have been in error in my recollection as to
the question and answer, and I withdraw the question. During the
time that you were employed by the War Production Board, was any
question raised regarding your possible membership in an organiza-
tion devoted to the overthrow of the Government of the United
States?
Mr. Klein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds al-
ready sufficiently stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Why did you leave your employment with the War
Production Board ?
Mr. Klein (after conferring with counsel). I will also decline to
answer that question on the grounds I have already given.
Mr. Tavennp:r. How are you now employed, Mr. Klein?
Mr. Klein. As of the present time I am not employed.
Mr. Tavenner. In what work are you now engaged, whether em-
ployed or unemployed ?
Mr. Klein. At this moment?
Mr. Tavenner. Not while you are sitting here, but I would say
yesterday and the week before.
Mr. Klein. I see. Well, since approximately 1 : 30 Sunday after-
noon my time has been employed at the discretion of this committee.
Mr. Tavenner. I understand that, and I am not referring to that
period of time.
Mr. Klein (after conferring with counsel). Well, I have been for
some time, as a parallel or side employment, I have been self-em-
ployed in the making of educational films or visual aids.
Mr. Tavenner. Haven't you been engaged in other work besides
that within the past few weeks ?
Mr. Klein. Yes. I was until recently; I was doing public-relation?
work for a trade-union.
Mr. Tavenner. What trade-union?
Mr. Klein. The United Automobile Workers.
Mr. Tavenner. Now on strike at Douglas Long Beach
Mr. Klein. What is the implication of your question, if I may ask ?
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question, please, sir?
Mr. Klein. I would like to have a little clarification.
Mr. Tavenner. If you want the implication, it is this. This com-
mittee has made a very strenuous effort over a period of 2 years to
advise the leadership in labor when it has been infiltrated by persons
who advocate principles which are disloyal to this country, and that
is the inference which I want to present, if there is a basis for it. Now
you are in a position to clear that matter up. If you are a member of
the Communist Party and as such are engaged in any responsible
position in labor, in government, in the moving-picture industry, or
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1569
in any other industry, it is the duty of this committee to investigate
that fact and find it out.
Mr. Klein. Well, I wish to call to the counsel's attention that I have
terminated this employment.
Mi1. Tavenner. I did not hear your answer.
Mr. Wood. He called counsel's attenion to the fact that his employ-
ment has been terminated.
Mr. Tavenner. When was that done?
Mr. Klein (conferring with counsel). I terminated it as early
as possible after receiving the subpena from the committee. It took
effect as of this morning.
Air. Tavenner. I want to commend you for that action because I
meant to leave no implication that there was any Communist leader-
ship in that strike or that it was in any sense a Communist strike. I
have no information or knowledge on the subject. But, if there is
anyone connected with it who is working as a member of the Com-
munist Party, then we want to know that fact.
Mr. Klein. Is this a question that you are addressing to me or is
it a statement?
Mr. Tavenner. It's an answer to the inference which you said that
we were making.
Mr. Klein. I see.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter, do you have any questions ?
Mr. Walter. Mr. Klein, what was the Federated Press ?
Mr. Klein (after conferring with counsel). I will have to decline
to answer your question or to enter into any discussion on the grounds
that I have already stated in previous declinations.
Mr. Wood. As far as this committee is concerned, you don't have
to decline to answer.
Mr. Klein. I will rephrase it and say I do decline.
Mr. Walter. I don't care to enter into any discussion with you
about it ; I merely, as a matter of information, wanted to know what
the Federated Press was.
Mr. Klein. Well, I don't wish to avoid discussion with you, but
under the circumstances and in the context of this committee, an^l
with the directory at hand, I see no other possible answers that I can
give you and preserve the rights that I have previously referred to.
Mr. Walter. What crime do you think you would be guilty of com-
mitting or could be prosecuted for by telling me what a press service
or a publication is?
( At this point Representative Clyde Doyle returned to the room.)
Mr. Klein. Well, again I regret to avoid any discussion with you
or exchange of opinion, but the same answer must hold with regard
to my giving of reasons as held with regard to my answer to your
previous question, Congressman.
Mr. Walter. That is all.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Klein, I had to leave the room a few minutes. I'm
sorry 1 wasn't here to hear all of your testimony.
Mr. Klein. That is quite all right.
Mr. Doyle. I would like to have had the benefit of all your answers,
of course. But I was particularly interested in the fact that you had
1570 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
been benefited by having such a fine opportunity for, shall I say,
schoolroom or classroom or university learning as contradistinguished
from some of us that haven't had that benefit. Then I noticed you
said you taught at Los Angeles City College from 1938 to 1941
Mr. Klein. That is right.
Mr. Doyle. Then at El Camino Junior College for a time. Now,
what did you instruct in?
Mr. Klein. Chiefly in the field of English composition and litera-
ture. I also taught the German language.
Mr. Doyle. Are you familiar with the Federal statute under which
this committee operates by the instruction of the United States Con-
gress ?
Mr. Klein. Well, I believe I am somewhat familiar with it. I
probably am not an expert on it.
Mr. Doyle. Give me your opinion of what statute you think we are
operating under in this hearing.
Mr. Klein. I think it would be presumptuous on my part to give
you my opinion of a statute which you are already intimately ac-
quainted with.
(At this point Representative Francis E. Walter left the room.)
Mr. Doyle. What I mean, Mr. Klein — I can see you are a greatly
read gentleman, and I just assume that you are perfectly familiar,
or at least generally familiar, with the wording of the text of the
statute — it is very brief — under which we operate. I don't mean to
embarrass you at all.
Mr. Klein. It is no embarrassment. You will please correct me. It
is my understanding that the statute is one that empowers this com-
mittee to investigate and make recommendations regarding subversive
activities in the United States.
(At this point Representative Charles E. Potter left the room.)
Mr. Doyle. That is correct.
Mr. Klein. Thank you.
Mr. Doyle. You would feel, I am sure, that that is a worthy objec-
tive and a high purpose and a necessary purpose, wouldn't you?
Mr. Klein. Yes; I certainly do. In the full sense of the word
"subversive."
Mr. Doyle. And in the full sense of the word "subversive," I sup-
pose you agree with Mr. Webster ?
Mr. Klein. Well, I am more or less obliged to.
Mr. Doyle. Assuming then that you even learn from him, the same
as all the rest of us do, I would take an occasion to look up the meaning
of the word "subversive" and the word "subvert" by Mr. Webster.
I presume you haven't had occasion to look at the meaning of the
word recently.
Mr. Klein. Yes; I have.
Mr. Doyle. What did you find?
Mr. Klein. Well, if I am not mistaken, it means to undermine and
to ruin utterly.
Mr. Doyle. That's right, and that is only part of the definition.
Can you give us the balance of it, if you remember?
Mr. Klein. I'm sorry, I break down at that point.
Mr. Doyle. Let me add then, "to overturn; to overthrow; to under-
mine the morals, the allegiance, or the faith of; to corrupt." Do you
remember reading that, too?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1571
Mr. Klein. Well, I recall from your excellent reading.
Mr. Doyle. This committee then is primarily assigned by the United
States Congress to investigate, to uncover, to interest itself in these
subversive people and the subversive programs.
Mr. Klein. Are you pointing your pencil in my direction ?
Mr. Doyle. No ; not at all.
Mr. Klein. I see. Please don't.
Mr. Doyle. Not at all. I have quite the habit, however, being a
lawyer and having practiced law some 25 years in a neighboring city
and the courts in this city, and I suppose I acquired the habit like your
own worthy council did of emphasizing before the jury by appropriate
manipulations. So I am pointing my pencil as I am ; I am not pointing
it to you as a subversive at all. However, may I say to you, as one
man to another, from the evidence I have heard from different parts of
the country, I am under a very firm conviction, I think as a reasonable
person, that the Communist Party in America is subversive, definitely
so. I see two or three smiling at that statement, and I can understand
it. But I want to say to you, sir, that, believing then as I do that
the CommunistParty is definitely subversive, would you think that if
I believe that as a member of this committee that my duty is to ask
you if you are a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Klein. I am sorry; I don't quite get the purport of your
question.
Mr. Doyle. The purport of my question is this
Mr. Klein. Do I believe what ?
Mr. Doyle. This committee is under the firm conviction that the
Communist Party in the United States is a subversive party under
the definition of Mr. Webster. And under the text of our assignment
we are designated to investigate subversive people and subversive
programs. Wouldn't you say that it was our duty under our statutes
to ask you, therefore, since we were informed that you are a member
of the Communist Party, shouldn't we ask you very frankly here
in this public session whether or not you are ?
Mr. Klein. You are asking me to tell you what you ought to do
or ought not to do ; is that correct?
Mr. Doyle. Yes. I will ask you frankly. Shouldn't we try to find
out where subversive people are and what their subversive programs
are?
Mr. Klein. Well, in the first place, I don't believe — I am not try-
ing to either advise you nor counsel you, but in the first place the
question which you addressed to me is without any basis. I do not
recall that there has been a question addressed to me whether I am
a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Doyle. Well, I will ask you now whether or not you are a
member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Klein. All right. Well, I will give the same answer that I
have been obliged to give, and my answer, I think, is illuminated
by the remarks you have just made. It is quite obvious that, in the
view of yourself and the committee, an answer to this question might
involve me or incriminate me in some incriminating situation, and
consequently I feel that it is my right and also my duty to refuse
to answer.
Mr. Doyle. Well, of course, it might involve you if, as a matter
of fact, you have participated in any subversive activities or programs
81595 — 51 — pt. 4 11
1572 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
as a member of the Communist Party. I will grant you tliat is true.
No question about that. You see, we have had testimony before our
committee that certain Communist cells have even discussed among
themselves the matter of getting arms and ammunition in parts of
this country to participate in the forceful revolution which is advo-
cated by the Communist Party. Have you ever heard of that being
advocated ?
Mr. Klein. Have I ever heard of what being advocated?
Mr. Doyle. The forceful revolution by the Communist Party in
the United States.
Mr. Klein. Have I ever heard the Communist Party advocating
forceful revolution in the United States ?
Mr. Doyle. Well, I will leave the question the way you asked it.
Mr. Klein. Well, I am trying to — excuse me. 1 am not trying to
ask you questions. I am just trying to understand what it is that I
am to answer.
Mr. Doyle. Well, I will repeat it, simplify my question. This com-
mittee has had unimpeachable evidence before it that in some parts of
the country Communist cells exist in which it has been frankly dis-
cussed by the members thereof of ways and means of getting posses-
sion of arms and ammunition to use when and if the revolution against
the capitalist class came. Now, I assume you are a reasonable Amer-
ican citizen
Mr. Klein. Well, I have read magazine articles containing that
material.
Mr. Doyle. Have you ever heard that discussed in the Communist
meetings ?
Mr. Klein. I decline to answer that on the grounds that this ob-
viously is a question designed to entrap me into a situation that is
absolutely untenable. I can't answer a question of that sort without
subjecting myself to the very kind of incrimination that k is my
right and duty to avoid.
Mr. Doyle. Of course, I fail to see how a frank statement of what-
ever the fact may be by any witness before this committee is going
to involve him in prosecution unless, as a matter of fact, his rela-
tionship to the Communist Party was such that he actually had
been involved in a subversive program. Under the definition that
you read by Mr. Webster and which I wrote out for you, do you see
any involvement of a witness before this committee of possible fear
of incrimination unless he has been engaged in subversive conduct?
Mr. Klein. Well, this is an answer to — this is a hypothetical
and speculative question. I would like to ask my counsel's advice
before answering it. It seems to me it would be going utterly out-
side of my realm to answer it.
(Witness consults counsel.)
Mr. Doyle. Well, I want you to consult your counsel.
Mr. Klein. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. This committee is always glad to have counsel present.
Mr. Klein. I believe that in view of the general context and the
time, I must decline to answer that question.
Mr. Doyle. Well, of course, you heard our distinguished chairman
say that you must not do anything before this committee.
Mr. Klein. I apologize. I decline — I respectfully decline to an-
swer on the grounds I have already given.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1573
Mr. Doyle. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Jackson. During the period of your employment, Mr. Klein,
with the United Automobile Workers, as a part of that employment
as a representative of the national publication of the United Air-
craft Workers, called, I believe, the Aircraft Worker, were you in
any way connected with the publication of the Aircraft Worker?
Mr. Klein. I don't know of any publication under that name.
Mr. Jackson. Were you connected with any publication of the
United Automobile Workers having to do either with the automobile
end of the business or of the aircraft end of the union activities?
Mr. Klein. Well, for a short time I was connected with the techni-
cal preparation of a weekly newspaper or news sheet known as UAW
News.
Mr. Jackson. Where was that, Mr. Klein?
Mr. Klein. Well, that was here in this area.
Mr. Jackson. In the Los Angeles area ?
Mr. Klein. Yes. I am sorry. Your question referred to the na-
tional Detroit publication?
Mr. Jackson. My original question
Mr. Klein. Oh, I see. Well, I misunderstood you.
Mr. Jackson. Was directed toward the national publication.
Mr. Klein. I see.
Mr. Jackson. But you were connected with the local publication
here in Los Angeles?
Mr. Klein. Well, yes; in a technical, editorial way.
Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Any further questions by counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I failed to call to your attention, Mr. Klein,
that two witnesses who appeared here before the committee yesterday
identified you and your wife as members of a cell of the Communist
Party here in Hollywood. I want to give you the opportunity to
either deny or affirm that statement, or make any explanation that
you desire to make.
Mr. Klein. I see. Who were those witnesses, please?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Harold Ashe and his wife — former wife — Mrs.
Mildred Ashe.
Mr. Klein. Well, on the grounds that it might tend to degrade me
and to incriminate me, I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to point out that the question of deg-
radation is no defense whatsoever to the failure to answer a ques-
tion as decided in Walker against Brown by the United States Su-
preme Court many years ago, and if that is the ground for your re-
fusal, I ask the chairman to demand that you answer the question.
Mr. Klein. Well, I will state it simply, then, that I refuse to answer
on the ground of the rights assured me under the fifth amendment
to the Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Do you have one other question ?
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions but I be-
lieve that inasmuch as there have been inferences and counter-infer-
ences which bear upon the United Auto Workers and this committee,
that it should be said that the CIO, itself, has taken very strong-
measures toward ridding itself of Communist influence, and in the
1574 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
course of that activity expelled a number of CIO unions which re-
fused to purge themselves of Communist leadership. I should also
like to say that in the course of the Baltimore hearings, this com-
mittee was the recipient of an expression of support from organized
labor within the Sparrows Point plant. I think that there should
certainly be left in the minds of the audience or the minds of the
listeners no connotation of any activity by this committee against
those elements of organized labor which are American in their activ-
ities.
Mr. Wood. Any reason why this witness shouldn't be excused ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. So ordered, and the committee will stand in recess until
10 o'clock in the morning.
(Whereupon at the hour of 5 : 10 p. m., an adjournment was taken
until 10 a. m. of the following day.)
COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF HOLLYWOOD MOTION
PICTURE INDUSTRY— Part 4
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 1951
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities,
Los Angeles, Calif.
PUBLIC HEARING
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met
pursuant to adjournment at 10 a. m. in room 518, Federal Building,
Los Angeles, Calif., Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair-
man), Francis E. Walter, Clyde Doyle. Donald L. Jackson, Charles
E. Potter.
Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Thomas
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel; Louis J. Russell, senior investigator;
William A. Wheeler, investigator; and John W. Carrington, clerk.
Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order.
Let the record show that there is present of the subcommittee Mr.
Walter of Pennsylvania, Mr. Doyle of California. Mr. Jackson of
California, Mr. Potter of Michigan, and Mr. Wood of Georgia, con-
stituting the full subcommittee.
Mr. Counsel, are you ready to proceed ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wood. Who will you have first?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Martin Berkeley.
Mr. Wood. Are you Mr. Martin Berkeley ?
Mr. Berkeley. I am, sir.
Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn. Do you
solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee shall be
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Berkeley. I do.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Berkeley, are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Berkeley. I am, sir.
Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record.
Mr. Williams. My name is Edward Bennett Williams, of Wash-
ington, D. C, sir.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Berkeley, during the progress of your interrogation
you will be permitted at any time you desire to confer with your
counsel and counsel will be permitted to confer with you as often as
he desires and give you the benefit of any advice, information, or
suggestion that he deems appropriate.
Mr. Berkeley. Thank you, sir.
1575
1576 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
TESTIMONY OF MARTIN BERKELEY, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, EDWARD BENNETT WILLIAMS
Mr. Wood. In this connection I would like to state that it has been
the policy of this committee
Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. I understand the am-
plification system is not operating. The press sitting immediately be-
hind me are unable to hear anything.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Counsel, you may proceed.
Mr. Williams. Mr. Chairman, if I may, sir, before this witness
begins his testimony I would like to call one matter to the attention of
the chair and counsel, which I think the subcommittee should know
about. Mr. Berkeley last night received a phone call at his home in
Pacoima, Calif., threatening him and his family if he appeared here
today and gave evidence disclosing names of members of the Com-
munist Party which had not been known or disclosed prior to this
session. This was the third of such phone calls that the witness has
received in the course of the past week. The Federal Bureau of
Investigation has been advised of these.
I call this to the attention of the subcommittee at this time to ask
and enlist the aid of the subcommittee in bending every effort and
influence that it has to protect this witness from any reprisals or
sanctions that may be visited upon him. I have called this to the
attention of counsel, also, for the committee last night.
Mr. Wood. The full forces and power of the American Government
will be utilized to protect this or any other witness who appears before
this committee to give testimony in connection with its operations.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, there has been no subpena issued for
this witness, but in light of the situation which has just developed I
suggest that a subpena be issued and that this witness be kept under
subpena for a period of time.
Mr. Wood. It will be so directed.
Mr. Tavenner. I suggest that merely as a protection to the witness.
Mr. Wood. Yes, I understand.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please, sir.
Mr. Berkeley. My name is Martin Berkeley, B-e-r-k-e-1-e-v.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Berkeley?
Mr. Berkeley. I was born in Brooklyn, New York, August 21, 1904.
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ?
Mr. Berkeley. At 13208 Wentworth Street, Pacoima, Calif.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in California?
Mr. Berkeley. Since January 1937.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state for the committee, please, in a
general way what your educational background has been (
Mr. Berkeley. I went to the public schools of New York City. I
attended Brooklyn Boys' High School and Dickenson High School
in Jersey City, from which I graduated. I went to John Hopkins
University and Columbia Extension School.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession?
Mr. Berkeley. I am a screen writer.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee briefly what
your experience as a screen writer has been ?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, I have been a screen writer since 1937. I
have done 18 or 20 pictures. My employment, for the most part,
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1577
has been in two studios. I was employed almost without interrup-
tion for 10 years by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and Twentieth Century-
Fox. At Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer I wrote the Dr. Gillespie pictures
which followed the Dr. Kildaires. At Twentieth Century-Fox I
wrote Shock, Smokey, Green Grass of Wyoming, a picture called
Sand, and Kangaroo, which is still to be released. It was made in Aus-
tralia. I have a picture going into production within the next 10
days at Universal called Great Companions with Dan Dailey in
Technicolor, and that is all that have been made.
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to your entrance into the field of screen writ-
ing what was your record of employment, briefly ?
Mr. Berkeley. After I left college I went into business for a short
time. I became an actor. I then started to write, had two plays
produced on Broadway. After the first play I was brought out here,
in January of 1937, by Columbia Pictures.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Berkeley, are you appearing here in response
to a subpena of this committee ?
Mr. Berkeley. No, sir. I am here as a voluntary witness to co-
operate fully with this committee and give this committee and the
country all the help that I can. In April my name was mentioned
by cooperative witness Richard Collins, and I sent a very silly tele-
gram to the committee after I received that wire. I charged Mr.
Collins with perjury and said I had never been a member of the
Communist Party, which was not true. I was not at that time a
member and have not been for many years. Why I sent the telegram —
I did it in a moment of panic and was a damn fool.
Mr. Tavenner. Since that time you have determined that you will
aid this committee in every possible way ?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. Since 1913 I have consistently fought the
Communists in this town.
Mr. Tavenner. Because of your experiences both within and with-
out the Communist Party in the Hollywood area, do you consider
that you are in a position to give this committee needed information ?
Mr. Berkeley. I think so, sir ; very much so.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe we should start back with your original
entry into the Communist Party. Will you tell us where that
occurred ?
Mr. Berkeley. In 1936 in New York City, shortly before the elec-
tion, an old friend of mine, Mr. Fuller, who was a director in the
theater, knew that I was very much interested in the anti-Nazi —
anti-Fascist movement; that I was interested in the growing trade-
union movement of the country, suggested that I go to a meeting
with him.
I did. The meeting was held at Fourteenth Street and Seventh
Avenue on the second floor. There was a sign on the windows of the
building in which the meeting was held. That was called the Patrick
Henry Club.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that in the city of New York?
Mr. Berkeley. That was in the city of New York. There were
many speakers that night, much talk about the election. I discovered
that it was a Communist Party meeting. I did not join that night.
Iwent back the following week, listened some more, played some
ping-pong there and joined the party.
1578 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Were you assigned to any particular club at that
time?
Mr. Berkeley. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Or unit of the party %
Mr. Berkeley. I was kept in that particular Patrick Henry Club
of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the names of any of the other members
of that group ?
Mr. Berkeley. I do, sir. The chairman of our group, which, at
the time I joined, we had about 75 members and within 6 weeks we
had approximately 175 members and it then split up and took some
more loft buildings, but the head of the group was Jim Thompson,
who was either a brother or a cousin of Robert Thompson, one of the
convicted top Communists. Also in the group was Isadore Schneider,
editor and contributor to New Masses. William Browder, who was
a brother of Earl Browder. A man named Les Abenson, who at that
time was a screen reader and who is now a very well known Broad-
way producer. I will say that most of the members of the group were
workingmen. There were just a handful of intellectuals or artists in
this particular group.
Mr. Tavenner. While a member of that group were you instructed
or advised to join any organizations?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. I believe at that time I joined the League
of American Writers, if that was the name at that time. It had so
many names and it has been so many years ago I don't recall. But it
was either the League of American Writers or the name before it or
the name after it. I was also — at that time I had a play in New York,
but I was employed in the story department of several studios, par-
ticularly at Paramount as a screen reader.
The readers were very badly paid and they were kicked around and
we had a just grievance, we wanted more money. They were paying
us $2 a script then to read a script and make a synopsis, which might
take as much as 4 or 5 hours. Along with the other members of the
party, on instruction of V. J. Jerome, we organized the Screen Readers'
Guild in New York. At a later date a member of the Screen Readers'
Guild, the president, Lee Sabinson, came to Hollywood and established
a branch of the Screen Readers' Guild out here. The offspring of it
today is the Screen Analysts' Guild.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the names of any other persons who
were members of the Screen Readers' Guild which you joined in the
city of New York?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, there was Lee Sabinson, I mentioned him.
He was the head of it. A man named Eddie Huebsch
Mr. Tavenner. I mean, in asking you that, I want to know who
were members of that organization known to you to be members of
the Communist Party.
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. There was Lee Sabinson, whom I have
mentioned previously. Sabinson
Mr. Tavenner. May I ask you to spell the name, please.
Mr. Berkeley. His name is Lee, L-e-e, S-a-b-i-n-s-o-n.
Mr. Tavenner. I think it would be helpful if you would spell all
of these names as you mention them the first time.
Mr. Berkeley. Thank you, sir. Lee was the president of the Screen
Readers' Guild. On his return from Hollywood he enlisted in the
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1579
Abraham Lincoln Brigade, was sent to Spain, got as far as Paris,
changed his mind and came back and became a screen reader again. I
haven't seen Mr. Sabinson since 1936, or thereabouts. I may possibly
have bumped into him in New York on a visit but I can't recall it.
Another member of the group was a man who is at present a screen
writer in Hollywood and one of the most vociferous Communists we
have in our guild. His name is Edward Huebsch, H-u-e-b-s-c-h. I
don't know much about Mr. Huebsch except he is a Communist and
a troublemaker.
Also in the group was a man named Nicholas Bela, B-e-l-a, a Hun-
garian, who had been in the revolution in Hungary with Bela Kun.
We received a great deal of cooperation at that time in the organi-
zation of the Screen Readers' Guild from Eve Ettinger, who at that
time was an assistant in the story department at Columbia and who
today is the story editor of that studio. I had talks with Miss Ettinger
at a later date when I was in New York and Miss Ettinger told me
that she had left the party, and I have every reason to believe that
she was telling me the truth.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I call to your attention the fact
that Eve Ettinger, the person identified just now by the witness, ap-
peared a few weeks ago in executive session of this committee and
admitted her Communist Party membership and at the time indicated
and stated, also, that she had withdrawn from the party.
Mr. Berkeley. I believe she has, from every possible indication.
Through the work with the Screen Readers' Guild, and in order to
publicize the work that we were doing, V. J. Jerome, who was in
charge of the cultural work of the Communist Party, put me in touch
with a man named Herbert Klein, K-1-e-i-n, who then was the editor
or one of the editors of New Theater magazine. Later he made many
excellent documentary films and after quarreling with the party po-
litically was expelled from the party, and to the best of my knowledge
and belief is no longer a party member.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Berkeley, were you present in the hearing
room at the close of the session yesterday ?
Mr. Berkeley. No, sir. This is the first time I have been here.
Mr. Tavenner. You did not see the Herbert Klein who testified
before the committee yesterday?
Mr. Berkeley. No, sir. Is he a movie director or a picture writer?*
Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell the name Klein, the person to
whom you refer ?
Mr. Berkeley. I believe his name is spelled K-1-e-i-n or K-1-i-n-e.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us further identifying information
relating to the Herbert Klein to whom you refer as having been a
member of this group in New York City in 1936 ?
Mr. Berkeley. Counsel, it's 14 years since I have seen Mr. Klein.
I met him organizationally twice and I haven't seen him since. I
would hate to hang a man on identification like that. As I remember
him, he was dark, of medium height. Both times I saw him he wore
a dark suit. *\
Mr. Tavenner. I have before me the morning paper which has a
photograph of the witness Herbert Klein who appeared before the
committee yesterday.
Mr. Berkeley. May I see it, sir %
1580 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. I would like for you to look at it. You may look
at it and see if it is the Herbert Klein to whom you have referred.
Mr. Berkeley. No, sir, that is not the Herbert Klein to whom I
refer.
Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned the fact that V. J. Jerome gave you
certain instructions and directions. When did you first meet V. J.
Jerome ?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, I would say I met Jerome about a week after
I joined the party. The party was very anxious to contact anybody
in the motion-picture business and I presume that when I filled out
my application and gave my occupation that the card was filtered
through the center to Jerome, or possibly Bill Browder, or Isadore
Schneider, who was a writer, may have told Jerome. But all I know
is that I was sent for and I met Jerome some place in Greenwich
Village. I don't know what street it was, I don't know the address.
Mr. Tavenner. While a member of the Communist Party in New
York City did you become acquainted with John Howard Lawson?
Mr. Berkeley. I did. I met Lawson at a meeting with V. J. He
was introduced to me as a nonparty member. I was told that he was
very sympathetic with our aims and was very interested in seeing
the Screen Readers' Guild grow and prosper, but that in spite of the
fact that he was referred to as Comrade Lawson he was not a party
member. Subsequently I learned that that was untrue.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what position V. J. Jerome held in
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Berkeley. I believe his title was chairman or commissar of the
Cultural Commission of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the year in which you came to Holly-
wood ?
Mr. Berkeley. 1937, approximately the 15th of January.
Mr. Tavenner. After coming to Hollywood did you continue your
affiliation with the Communist Party ?
Mr. Berkeley. I did, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee the circumstances
under which you continued your Communist Part}^ membership.
Mr. Berkeley. Well, it sounds a little bit like a B picture. Lester
Fuller, whom I had known for many, many years before I joined the
party, when he discovered I was coming to Hollywood and didn't know
many people out here, suggested that I contact a man named Guy
Endore, who was not a party member, and Guy Endore would intro-
duce me around town and see that I met people. The third day I was
in Hollywood I was assigned to a picture and lo and behold Guy
Endore wasmy collaborator. It was through Guy Endore, who then
was not a member of the Communist Party but subsequently was, that
I was invited to a meeting at the home of Frank and Sonia Tuttle.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, what Frank Tuttle is that?
Mr. Berkeley. That is Frank Tuttle, the director.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I understand there is more than one Frank
Tuttle, also.
Mr. Berkeley. Well, this is my friend, Frank Tuttle, who testified
in Washington.
.w<
Mr. Tavenner. And a director?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1581
Mr. Tavenner. Very well, sir.
Mr. Berkeley. There were approximately 50 people at Mr. Tuttle s
home, party people and nonparty people, and at this gathering I met
V. J. Jerome again, and he was delivering a lecture that night on
Trotskyism.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of your own knowledge the circum-
stances under which V. J. Jerome was sent to Hollywood or came to
Hollywood ?
Mr. Berkeley. Jerome was sent to Hollywood to organize Holly-
wood, to organize the talent groups, the actors, the directors, and so
forth, writers, and to give what aid and assistance out of his long
experience he could to the groups in the IATSE.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee the functions that V. J.
Jerome performed in carrying out that objective?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, V. J. addressed many meetings of party and
nonparty people. He spoke on such matters as Spain, on Hitlerism,
on Mussolini, on the labor situation ; he spoke of the role of writers in
the changing world ; he made many such speeches and many such con-
tacts with people. He was a rather diffident person when you met him
and people liked Jerome. He was able to contact a number of people,
recruit people to the party, gain financial support from people, I
believe, who never became party members but were angels for many,
many years, and I wish I knew who they were. He did a thoroughly
good job. His job was so good that we are all here today because of it.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, as a result of his work what occurred?
Mr. Berkeley. As a result of the work that was done by Jerome,
groups of actors were enlisted in the current squabble that was going
on at the guild, inside the Screen Actors' Guild.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, before we come to a discussion of that, can you
give us the names of persons known to you at the time, persons who
later were known to you, to be members of the Communist Party who
attended this first meeting at the home of Frank Tuttle which was
being addressed by V. J. Jerome ?
Mr. Berkeley. There were approximately 50 people at the meeting.
Looking back on the meeting I would say that approximately 20 of
these people were later revealed to me in fractions or in party groups
as members of the Communist Party.
One of the most active there was John Bright, a screen writer whose
wife, Josephine Bright, was an organizer in the Mexican section of
this community.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell his last name, please.
Mr. Berkeley. B-r-i-g-h-t. John Bright. His wife's name was
Josephine Bright. I also met for the first time Lionel Stander, who
later became chairman of the actors' fraction. With him was his
wife — his then wife, Alice Twitchell. It is interesting to know that
sometime later during the strike at the Hollywood Citizen News, for
which I gave a benefit at my home for the striking newspapermen,
at which we raised approximately a thousand dollars, I believe, to help
the newspaper Guild, and I am very proud that we did, Stander was
at this meeting and called me over into a corner and introduced me to
Comrade Harry Bridges.
Mr. Tavenner. You refer to Stander as the chairman of the actors'
fraction, if I understood you correctly.
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir.
1582 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Bv fraction, what do Ton mean?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, a fraction is a group of party members — now,
there were two kinds of fractions. There is an open fraction and
there is a closed fraction. When I use the word "fraction" from now
on, I mean a closed fraction at which only party members are admitted.
The fraction is composed of Communists who have a common interest
either in a mass organization in which they are functioning or a
trade-union, a political party or such like. There were fractions of
the actors, fractions of the writers, I presume fractions of the direc-
tors, though I have no knowledge of that ; fractions in the Hollywood
Anti-Nazi League and other front organizations.
Mr. Tavenner. But in short, it meant membership in the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. J. Edward Bromberg and his wife,
Goldie — Bromberg is spelled B-r-o-m-b-e-r-g; he is an actor — were
also at the meeting. Present was Miss Madelaine Ruthven, R-u-t-h-
v-e-n, who later became organizational secretary for the Hollywood
section; an actor named Victor Killian, K-i-1-l-i-a-n.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that the same person that testified before the
Committee on Un-American Activities in Washington ?
Mr. Berkeley. I believe it is, sir. I believe so.
Mr. Tavenner. I possibly should have said, who appeared before
the committee.
Mr. Berkeley. I realize that. Also present was Don Gordon, an
assistant story editor,, I believe, at the time at one of the studios; I
think RKO. I am not sure. Pie is here now. Perhaps he can tell
you later. Lou Harris was there.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, some of the persons present at this meeting,
I understand, were not members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Berkeley. That's right, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I want to make it clear that I am asking you to
name those who were members of the Communist Party, to your
knowledge.
Mr. Berkeley. Mr. Tavenner, I will not mention a name unless I
am dead certain that this person was a member of the Communist
Party, because I am not going to hang anybody that doesn't deserve it.
Mr. Tavenner. Then Donald Gordon, I understand from vour
testimony
Mr. Berkeley. Don Gordon.
Mr. Tavenner. Don Gordon was a member of the Communist
Party, to your knowledge?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. I met with him with the Screen Writers
Guild. I attended a meeting of the Screen Writers Guild at which I
met Don Gordon, and, subsequently, later met him at the meetings of
the writers' fraction. Also
Mr. Tavenner. You may proceed.
Mr. Berkeley. Also there was Lou Harris and his wife, Vera. Lou
later became a producer at Paramount. His name is spelled H-a-r-
r-i-s. Herbert Biberman — I think you know how to spell that name —
the director, was there with his wife, Gale Sondergaard, as well as
Sonja Dahl, who, I believe, then was D-a-h-1, Dahl; I don't know
whether she spells Sonja with a "y" or an "i". She was then secretary,
I believe, of the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League and later, I think,
married Herbert Biberman's brother, Edward Biberman, and Edward
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1583
Biberman was one of the organizers of the artists' union, which was
part of the WPA art project. Those are all the people I can re-
member at that meeting.
Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned the name of Lionel Stander.
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting in
his home ?
Mr. Berkeley. I did, sir. There was a meeting called at the home
of Stander at which V. J. Jerome was present that dealt with the mat-
ter of the struggle then going on in the Screen Actors' Guild. I don't
know how familiar you are with that struggle. I am very happy to
say that the situation no longer exists.
(At this time Representative Francis E. Walter entered the room.)
Mr. Berkeley. At that time the extras had no vote in the guild.
They Mere second-class citizens, and the Communist Party, whether
for altruistic purposes or whether because the ranks of the extras were
proven to be more fertile field than among the more successful mem-
bers of the profession I am not prepared to say, felt that the extras
should be given some kind of a vote in the Actors' Guild. Well, today
the extras are in their own guild and that situation is taken care of.
At this fraction meeting — let me explain how I got to an actors' meet-
ing. Jerome knew me from New York and he felt I was a fairly force-
ful person and got along pretty well with people, and he said, "I think
you better get in there and help for a while and keep your eye on
Stander. He is a screwball," which he is.
Elliot Sullivan was at that meeting. He is also known as Ely Sulli-
van. I don't know whether he spells his name S-u-1-l-i-v-a-n or
-a-v-a-n. Allen Matthews
Mr. Tavenner. Now, what is his occupation?
Mr. Berkeley. He is an actor. All these people were actors, Mr.
Tavenner. Allen Matthews, a small part actor, was present. He later
became very active politically and received an appointment by the
State administration to the extermination committee in charge of
exterminating bugs.
Dorothy Tree, an actress, was also present, as was Marc Lawrence,
and a young actor known as Maurice Murphy.
Mr. Tavenner. Is the Marc Lawrence to whom you refer there the
same person who appeared before the Committee on Un-American
Activities in Washington and admitted his former Communist
membership ?
Mr. Berkeley. That is the same Marc Lawrence. I am very happy
he admitted it.
Mr. Tavenner. Who, in describing the circumstances under which
he became a member, stated that he was recruited into the party with
the aid of Lionel Stander.
Mr. Berkeley. That's right, sir. I believe that is completely cor-
rect. You see, Stander at that time was about the only so-called name
that the party had in the profession. Those were
Mr. Tavenner. In the early part of your testimony relating to, I
believe, the New York episode of your membership, you referred to
an organization by initials. It has been called to my attention that
you did not state the exact name and I would like for you to do it.
You referred to the IATSE. I would like for the record to show the
full name.
1584 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Berkeley. That is the International Alliance of Theatrical
and Stage Employees, I believe.
Mr. Tavenner. If you have occasion to refer to it again it will be
proper to refer to it by the initials.
Mr. Berkeley. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. But I wanted the record to show at least once what
it is. I believe I interrupted you as you were about
Mr. Berkeley. No. I was all through with the actors' fraction.
Mr. Tavenner. In the course of your membership in the Communist
Party did you become acquainted with a person by the name of Matt
Pel lm a n?
Mr. Berkeley. I did, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he also known as Mike Pell ?
Mr. Berkeley. He was Matt Pelhnan, Mike Pell, and Max Apple-
man or Applebaum. He was a professional party organizer who had
been sent to the west coast to assist V. J. Jerome and had done much
party work in Hawaii and China. He was later expelled from the
party after a very bitter struggle and has become a very stanch
antiparty man.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have occasion to meet him here in Cali-
fornia ?
Mr. Berkeley. Oh, yes, sir. I met him with V. J. Jerome. We
used to chauffeur him around quite a bit.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you enlighten the committee as to the reason
for Mike Pell's presence in California?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, he was sent here to help Jerome organize
Hollywood. There was a lot of territory to cover and a lot of work
to do, and Mike Pell, which was the name I usually knew him by, was
a very hard worker. He did more of the leg work. Jerome did more
of the talking and sitting up nights and Mike did the job.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee, in its study of the problem facing
us in Hollywood, has been anxious to determine just what the purpose
of the Communist Party was in its extreme efforts in organizing the
party in this area. As a result of your experience and association with
it can you tell the committee briefly what the aims and objectives of
the Communist Party were in this area ?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, the aims, as I understood them from confer-
ences, repeated conferences with Jerome, V. J. Jerome and Lou Harris
and Mike Pell, were the organization of a Screen Writers' Guild,
which we needed very badly. The second objective was to get rid
of Browne and Bioff, the labor racketeers who were then the heads of
the IATSE, who later served jail terms. Building an organization of
extras, because, as I said before, they constituted the main body of
actors. The formation of a Directors' Guild. Incidentally, I know
nothing about the Directors' Guild. I was not involved in that job
at all, except I know that that was one of the purposes of the party.
Another task was to build a labor daily out here. They had the
Western Worker, which was a very sectarian newspaper. To supply
aid to Spain. To expand the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League into a
national organization, which would have been done except for the
Hitler-Stalin pact, and also the formation of a left-wing Democratic
Party organization in Hollywood which flowered at a later date as the
Motion Picture Democratic Committee.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1585
Mr. Tavenner. Was any office set up by the Communist Party from
which to function in performing these various objectives?
Mr. Berkeley. There was, sir. We had our offices in the Taft Build-
ing. Incidentally, the owners of the Taft Building, whom I don't
know, did not know that they had a Communist Party headquarters in
the Taft Building. The office was rented by Mike Pell under an
assumed name and the telephone was also in an assumed name, and
all there was in the office was — a little 8 by 10 office with a couple of
files. I never did know why they had files there because the files were
empty. We kept a bottle of Scotch there once in a while, but that
was about all there was.
Mr. Tavenner. You have spoken of the aims and objectives of the
Communist Party generally in this area. I would like you now to tell
the committee when and where the Hollywood section of the Com-
munist Party was organized.
Mr. Berkeley. Well, sir, by a very strange coincidence the section
was organized in my house. From the time I got out here in January
the party grew pretty rapidly. Jerome was working hard, Mike Pell
was working hard, Lou Harris was working hard, and all of us were
working pretty hard to recruit members. And we felt — you see, at
that time there was no real organization, you were a party member but
you had no place to go and meet. There were no real groups. There
were a few study groups but that's about all.
It was felt that numerically we were strong enough to have our
own organization, which was called the Hollywood section.
In June of 1937, the middle of June, the meeting was held in my
house. My house was picked because I had a large living room and
ample parking facilities, it was out on Beverly Glen, which was out
in the country, at least in those days, and my lease was up in two days.
So we had the meeting at my house.
And it was a pretty good meeting. We were honored by the pres-
ence of many functionaries from downtown and the spirit was swell.
Mr. Walter. Is that "swell" or "smell" ?
Mr. Berkeley. "Smell," I would say now.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names of those who were in
attendance at that meeting, who were members of the Communist
Party ?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, in addition to Jerome and the others I have
mentioned before, and there is no sense in me going over the list again
and again. I would like to get to the newer people, if I may. Eva
Shafran, who was then, I believe, the educational director of the
county, downtown, and who is now dead.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name, please ?
Mr. Berkeley. I think it is spelled, the first name was Eva, I think
it is spelled S-c-h-a-f-r-i-n.1 I'm not sure, but I think that is how you
spell her name.
Also present was Harry Carlisle, who is now in the process of being
deported, for which I am very grateful. He was an English subject.
After Stanley Lawrence had stolen what funds there were from the
party out here, and to make amends had gone to Spain and gotten
himself killed, they sent Harry Carlisle here to conduct Marxist
classes. He was at the meeting.
1 According to information in the files of the committee, spelling should be S-h-a-f-r-a-n.
1586 COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Also at the meeting was Donald Ogden Stewart. His name is spelled
Donald Ogden S-t-e-w-a-r-t, Dorothy Parker, also a writer. Her
husband Allen Campbell, C-a-m-p-b-e-1-1 ; my old friend Dashiell
Hammett, who is now in jail in New York for his activities; that
very excellent playwright Lillian Hellman; a woman named Herta,
I think it is spelled H-e-r-t-a, Uerkvitz, U-e-r-k-v-i-t-z, who at that
time was employed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer in the research de-
partment.
In addition there was Jesse Burns, a reader.
I think that about wraps up those that I can recall. That was a
long time ago.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you later obtain information that some of
these individuals were made members of the Communist Party at
large ?
Mr. Berkeley. I did, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Or rather members at large of the Communist
Party ?
Mr. Berkeley. It's the same difference.
Mr. Tavenner. Which of these persons whom you have named be-
came members at large of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, I will have to put it this way, sir. After this
meeting I never saw Stewart or Parker or Campbell or Hammett or
Hellman at a party meeting. They were at that meeting at my house
and I spoke to Jerome and Lawson at a subsequent date and I asked
them where Stewart and Dash were — I was very fond of Dash
Hammett — and he said that they had been assigned to a group known
as party members at large. They were no longer assigned to any
particular group in the Hollywood section and that I had seen the
last of them as far as organizational matters were concerned. I
imagine right now they wish they hadn't come in in the first place.
There are throughout the country who are members at large of
the Communist Party.
Mi'. Tavenner. Will you repeat that, please.
Mr. Berkeley. I said throughout the country, in addition to these
I have already mentioned, there are many other people who are mem-
bers at large of the Communist Party. That is very important to
the party to have these members at large.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee what you mean by a
member at large, or what the Communist Party meant by the ex-
pression or by the designation "member at large" ?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, if you are pretty important and you don't
want to be exposed — well, suppose Congressman Jackson here decided
to become a Communist, God forbid.
Mr. Jackson. Would you pick somebody else.
Mr. Berkeley. You are stuck with it.
It would be pretty important that no one knew that such was the
case, and the party would probably not issue a formal book. You
would take your oath to the Communist Party, you would pay your
dues to the Communist Party, you would take your directives from the
Communist Party and you would function as you were told to function,
but you would not go to meetings with other Congressmen, or other
writers, or other members of the top echelon in the trade unions or
the arts. From time to time you might meet with a man like — I am
sure these five writers I mentioned as members at large, they un-
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1587
doubtedly met out here in secret with John Howard Lawson or in
New York with V. J. Jerome, or a gentleman called F. Brown, who
is a member, or was then a member of the Politbureau of the party.
You would meet with these people and get your directions and in-
structions from the party and function, but you would have no contact
with anybody else in the party for your protection and for the pro-
tection of the party and the collection of dues.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there any action taken at this meeting at your
home which you can now recall ?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. We all promised to be good children and
bring in a new member for the next meeting. We promised to work
in the mass organizations and it was agreed that Harry Carlisle had
been fairly well exposed at that time as a Communist, to bring out
here someone that nobody knew who would conduct Marxist classes.
And they brought out, I imagine he is a pretty excellent teacher, his
name was John Weber, W-e-b-e-r.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at this meeting discuss the problem of
bringing out a person to teach Marxist classes?
Mr. Berkeley. Oh, we did. We had to have somebody to teach
Marxism because if anything had happened to Jerome or Mike Pell
there would be nobody there to tell us what to do or to instruct us
in the finer points of Marxism.
Mr. Tavenner. I understand.. But I wanted to make certain
whether that action was taken at this particular meeting.
Mr. Berkeley. That was, sir, at the second meeting.
Mr. Tavenner. As a result of that action you say a Mr. Weber ■
Mr. Berkeley. Mr. John Weber, W-e-b-e-r, who functioned as a
teacher, both for party people and to work with nonparty groups and
later became a very successful agent with the William Morris Agency.
T doubt if he is there right now.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you return to New York shortly after the meet-
ing to which you have just referred?
Mr. Berkeley. I did. I went to New York and up to Cape Cod
and had a little vacation and then came back to Hollywood.
Mr. Tavenner. On your return were you assigned to any particular
cell or group of the party ?
AIr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. By the way, everybody who has never
been a party member calls it a cell. I have never heard it called a
cell in the party — all the spy books call them cells, but they are called
groups, and I was assigned to a group which met at the home of var-
ious members.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the names of the persons in whose
homes that particular group met?
Mr. Berkeley. I do. I remember the first group very well. We
had an actor in the group named John Miller.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you
Mr. Berkeley. Skins Miller.
AIr. Tavenner. Will you repeat the name, please?
Mr. Berkeley. Miller, M-i-1-l-e-r, formerly of the famous vaudeville
team of Miller and Mack. Skins Miller, and his wife, Patricia Miller.
Also, we had a secretary named Leona D'Ambarey, who was a secretary
at the studio, and her brother Bob. I don't know what his occupation
was. I haven't the faintest idea. A young writer who was also in the
group named Searle — I think it is spelled S-e-a-r-1-e, Searle; Kramer,
S1595 — 51 — pt. 4 12
1588 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
K-r-a-m-e-r, he was a screen writer; and the son of Victor Killian,
Mike or Michael Killian, K-i-1-l-i-a-n ; and that is all I can remember
of the original formal group with which I functioned.
Mr. Tavennee. During this period of time was V. J. Jerome still in
California?
Mr. Berkeley. I think — I would have to consult my notes to check
on that. I think V. J. was still here, or he left or was about to leave.
There was — he was — he either had left or he was about to leave at
this particular time, Mr. Tavenner. If you will give me a moment I
will — I would say that he had left or was so close to leaving you can
say so.
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to his leaving did he give you any further
directions as to Communist Party activities?
Mr. Berkeley. Oh, yes; you are quite right. He was still here,
because it was while I was a member of this group that Jerome
assigned me to work in the IATSE. At that time the IA was — they
felt that they had no autonomy as a union, that their union leaders
were corrupt — and they were — and the party went out using the just
grievance of the union members to do a lot of recruiting and it was
felt that I could be of some service to the members of the IA if I
worked with a group of them therein. Actually, the work consisted of
editing a throw-away newspaper. I believe we printed 10,000 of them
at a clip or, rather, mimeographed them. I am not quite sure about
it. We mimeographed some, we had some printed. It was called the
Studio Voice, and the good comrades stood at the doors of the studios
and distributed them. My job was to take whatever information I
received from my comrades in the IA and the other unions and trans-
late it into a pamphlet. It was a matter of editing. I had no knowl-
edge of the situation, actually, myself, outside of what I had been
told, not being a member of the IA. It was a matter of rewriting,
mostly. There was the job of the Studio Voice, which, at the time,
was primarily one of attacking the leadership of the IA. It was
headed by Browne and Bioff, who both went to jail. It stirred up a
great deal of controversy and, as a side light it is interesting to know
that there was a great struggle going on in our little newspaper.
The newspaper was about this big [indicating], sometimes four
pages, if we were flush, and it was issued under the name of the Com-
munist Party. I mean, this was not a front, this was the name of the
party, and there was quite a struggle going on to see whether West-
brook Pegler printed the news first about Browne and Bioif being the
crooks and panderers and racketeers that they were or whether our
little newspaper got the news first. Sometimes we beat Pegler and
sometimes Pegler beat us, but the average was pretty good, and, be-
tween us, we got rid of the gangsters. That was about the job I did
there.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, you stated you were assigned to work in the
IATSE by V. J. Jerome ?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. What other members of the Communist Party
worked with you on that assignment? That is, persons known to you
to be members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Berkeley. I worked with a very small group. The group was
headed by Jeff Kibre, K-i-b-r-e, I believe it is spelled. He was a
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1589
professional party functionary and a CIO organizer, who later became
an official, I think, in the fishermen's union. We had a gentleman
there named Norval Crutcher, N-o-r-v-a-1 C-r-u-t-c-h-e-r; a man
named Ed Gilbert; another worker named Robert Ames; and a chap
named Irv Heschel, H-e-s-c-h-e-1. These were party members.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you inform the committee as to the name of
the craft with which each of these persons were affiliated?
Mr. Berkeley. I can't tell you, except that they were either paint-
ers or carpenters or grips of some kind. Now, maybe — it is very
possible now, Kibre — I know he was not a member of any trade-union
at that time because he was a party functionary. Crutcher was a
member — he was a secretary, I believe, of a local, 638, 658 — I don't
remember the number or what the particular craft was; we have so
many crafts in our business, and my connection with these men was
very limited. I can't inform you any further, except that they were
craft workers, painters, electricians, carpenters, and such like.
All were workers with the exception of Kibre, who was a profes-
sional revolutionist.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you continue your work on this as-
signment given you by Mr. V. J. Jerome ?
Mr. Berkeley. I imagine I got out about three or four issues of
the Studio Voice, and then I was taken away from this job.
Mj\ Tavenner. What do you mean, taken away?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, the Studio Voice was becoming pretty popu-
lar, and there were two reasons for taking me away, as a matter of
fact, looking back on it. The goon that existed then in the IA — and
I want to say this : Where I talk about the IA, I am talking about the
IA as it existed then. I am not talking about the IA under my very
good friend, Roy Brewer. That is a completely different story. I
want that distinctly understood. They had a goon squad in the
IA
Mr. Tavenner. Now, just a moment. IATSE is an abbrevia-
tion
Mr. Berkeley. Also IA.
Mr. Tavenner. To begin with, so let us not abbreviate the abbre-
viation.
Mr. Berkeley. The IATSE.
Mr. Tavenner. All right.
Mr. Berkeley. They had a goon squad, and the goon squad was
following the boys who were picking up the literature and distrib-
uting it, and some of the boys were getting beaten up, and Jerome
felt that it was quite possible that after crocking up some of the com-
rades they might find out where the sheet was being written and pay
me a visit which might possibly blow open the situation in Hollywood,
so I was taken out of the job of consulting with my comrades in the
IATSE.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there a person by the name of Maurice Mur-
phy who was connected in any way with that organization ?
Mr. Berkeley. Maurice Murphy was a young actor — I mentioned
him before in the actors' group — who became a paid functionary of
the party at this time. He saw that the dues were collected, that the
literature reached the proper sources for the meetings, and so forth.
He worked very, very hard and at a subsequent date quit the job.
1590 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. You have told us that it was about the beginning
of this work that V. J. Jerome left the California area.
Mr. Berkeley. He did.
Mr. Tavenner. AVho succeeded V. J. Jerome in the work of the
party here ?
Mr. Berkeley. Mr. John Howard Lawson took over the duties of
V. J. Jerome. He was the grand Pooh-Bah of the Communist move-
ment from that day, I presume, until this. He speaks with the voice
of Stalin and the bells of the Kremlin. I won't go into any further
character description of Mr. Lawson because there are microphones
within our room.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with an individual by the
name of Bob Reed ?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. Bob Reed was a member of the actorsr
fraction in New York City. He also had some connection with trade-
union work in the entertainment world in general, and Reed was also,
as I recall, it now, in charge of the Communist actors' work within
the Federal theater project. He came out here to discuss the Federal
theater project with the party members downtown and to consult with
Lawson about the fact that the party was not recruiting important
actors, and what was the matter with the party out here because they
were getting bit players but they couldn't get important names, and
I am happy to say that they were never able to get important names
as far as the actors were concerned. Reed was out here very shortly
and then went back to New York. I haven't seen him since that time.
Mr. Tavenner. After the completion of your work with the IATSE
were you assigned to any other section of the Communist Party or
group of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Berkeley. I was assigned to a group which, by this time, con-
sisted almost entirely of screen writers and their wives.
Mr. Tavenner. Did it have a name or designation?
Mr. Berkeley. Not to my knowledge. The only name I remem-
ber at all ever hearing of the party was the name of my first group,
which called itself the Patrick Henry group, but never in Hollywood
do I know of any group by the name — they may have had them. I
just don't know about it.
Mr. Tavenner. Who were associated with you in that group ?
Mr. Berkeley. One of our leading members was a writer named
Gordon Kahn, a former newspaperman and screen writer, one of the
best newspapermen in the business; a writer named Maurice Rapf,
R-a-p-f, who, I believe, is no longer in the business; a man who later
became a successful playwright named Arnaud, A-r-n-a-u-d D'Usseau,
D-'-U-s-s-e-a-u ; and his collaborator, James Gow, G-o-w, not a Chi-
nese; also in the group was Ring Lardner, Jr.; my friend Richard
Collins; Budd Schulberg; his then wife Virginia Schulberg; the great
explainer, Sam Ornitz; and his good wife, Sadie Ornitz. It was a
very harmonious group of writers.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe you have already — excuse me. Have you
completed ?
Mr. Williams (counsel for the witness) . Yes, I have.
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe you have already stated that John Howard
Lawson took over the direction and control of the party after V. J.
Jerome returned to New York.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1591
Mr. Berkeley. That's right, sir, he did.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Lawson have any particular lieutenants
or aides or assistants in the work that he assumed ?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. He was assisted, to the best of my knowl-
edge, by Herbert Biberman and Lou Harris, both of whom I have
identified.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Viola Brothers Shore?
Mr. Berkeley. I do.
Mr. Tavenner. What connection or affiliation, if any, did she have,
to your knowledge, with the Communist Party ?
Mr. Berkeley. She was a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. What was her husband's name?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, her then husband's name was Gleichman,
G-1-e-i-c-h-m-a-n. He was known as Kelly Gleichman. I don't know
his correct first name. He was known as Kelly.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a person known to you to be a member of
the Communist Party?
Mr. Berkeley. He was a member of the Communist Party and he
was the — well, he succeeded Maurice Murphy in the job of organi-
zational secretary of the party. He was a very hard worker. He
took on a lot of responsibility and a lot of work away from Biberman,
Harris, and Lawson.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with the Book of the Day
Shop?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Tell the committee about that.
Mr. Berkeley. The Book of the Day Shop was a book store on La
Brea in Hollywood. It was in a former bungalow. The purpose of
the book store was to sell books in front and distribute party literature
in the back. They had teas at the book store at which cultural sub-
jects were discussed. Once or twice they played jazz records there,
but primarily it was a distribution point for literature, and the litera-
ture secretaries of the various groups in Hollywood went there the
night of the meeting and picked up their little bundles of Stalin and
Lenin and others and took them to their meetings.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was in charge of that book store ?
Mr. Berkeley. The book store was presided over by Miss Susan
Wells, W-e-1-l-s, who later married a gentleman I have already named,
Arnaud D'Usseau.
Mr. Tavenner. Daring the course of your Communist Party mem-
bership did you become acquainted with a person by the name of
Sidney Buchman?
Mr. Berkeley. I did.
Mr. Tavenner. And his wife Bea Buchman?
Mr. Berkeley. I know both Sidney Buchman and Bea Buchman.
Mr. Tavenner. Is her correct name Bea or Beatrice?
Mr. Berkeley. That I don't know, sir. I only know her as Bea.
I assume it is a shortening or corruption of the name Beatrice.
Mr. Tavenner. What do you know, if anything, regarding the
Communist Party affiliation of those individuals?
Mr. Berkeley. I know both Sidney Buchman and his wife, Bea —
I understand they are since divorced ; I am not sure, but she was his
wife at the time — as members of the Communist Party.
1592 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Can you state to the committee anything regarding
the circumstances under which they became members ?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, Bea Buchman was very interested in the work
of the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League and was doing a good job in it.
She became a member first, I believe. At a later date, she, I believe,
recruited Sidney into the party. He is a writer-producer of great
distinction in the industry. I was a member of a group with Mrs.
Buchman and met in fraction meetings with Sidney at his home in
Toluca Lake. He also was — I believe I am correct in this. If he
wasn't the chairman of the committee he was a leading light of the
committee in charge of raising money to finance the book store.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the membership of the club that you — or
group that you belonged to at the time you are speaking of ?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, the groups varied, Mr. Tavenner. It is diffi-
cult to say whether you had 5, 10 or 15. It is a long time ago. Your
groups ran, as a rule, about 15 members, of which you figured you
would have 10 at a meeting. Then there was a period when things
were getting hot with the Dies committee. We had a tip the FBI
was looking for us, and the group shrunk. We only had five left in
the group for securitj^ reasons, so it is a little difficult to say, but it
kept growing. The party kept growing out here.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, if the party kept growing and the size of your
group or cell became fewer, what was the answer to that ? Were they
split up ?
Mr. Berkeley. They were divided.
Mr. Tavenner. Into small groups?
Mr. Berkeley. Like an amoeba, automatically.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, as the result of that procedure were you as-
signed to still another group ?
Mr. Berkeley. I was. I was assigned to a group in which we —
which was not as exclusively a group of writers alone. There were
other people in the group of other professions.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names of the members of that
group, whose names you can now recall, and who from your own
knowledge were members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Berkeley. A writer in the group named Arthur Strawn.
S-t-r-a-w-n ; and a writer who later became a minor executive in the
business named Michael Uris, U-r-i-s, he is the husband of Dorothy
Tree; a short-story writer named Sonora Babb; Harold Buchman,
Sidney Buchman's brother, who was also a member of this group.
Mr. Tavenner. Is he the same person who appeared before the com-
mittee in Washington the early part of these hearings ?
Mr. Berkeley. I wasn't there, Mr. Tavenner, but I presume it was
he. He was a member of the Screen Writers' Guild, as I recall his
testimony, and I only know of one Harold Buchman in the guild, so
I will make that assumption. Victor Shapiro, a publicist, was a
member of the group, as was George Bassman, a composer, and his
wife Kay. Bassman is spelled B-a-s-s-m-a-n.
Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned the name of Victor Shapiro.
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Is he the same person who was a member of the
Democratic Central Committee of Los Angeles County?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE' INDUSTRY 1593
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what position he took with regard
to a resolution of the Democratic central committee supporting the
United States position on the Korean question?
Mr. Berkeley. I only know what I read in the newspapers as far
as Mr. Shapiro's work in this period goes. This is a prime example of
Communist work in mass organizations. Here we have Victor Sha-
piro, a member of the motion-picture industry, functioning as, I be-
lieve, secretary of the county central committee of the Democratic
Party and blocking a resolution offered by the Democratic Party itself
in support of the action of our Government and of the United Nations
for taking action against the Communists in Korea. It is a fine state
of affairs when a man calling himself a Democrat, living a double life,
actually a Communist, is able to stymie the central committee of our
country's Democratic Party. I hope as a result of this that Mr. Sha-
piro's work, if he still is a member of that committee, is finished, be-
cause I am heartily in support of the action we are taking in Korea.
Mr. Tavenner. Now will you proceed, please? I believe you gave
us the name of George Bassman.
Mr. Berkeley. Bassman was a composer. He later wrote — I believe
he wrote some of the music for the play that was — the musical that
was put on by the Hollywood Theater Alliance. I can't recall the
name of it offhand. He was one of the men that worked on that.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with his wife ?
Mr. Berkeley. Kay? Yes, sir. She was also a party member.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I believe this is a convenient place
for a break, if you desire.
Mr. Wood. The committee will stand in recess for 20 minutes.
(A 20-minute recess was taken.)
Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order.
Mr. Counsel, are you ready to proceed ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wood. Very well.
Mr. Berkeley. Mr. Tavenner, may I say something?
A number of people, including the press, have asked me whether
everybody whose name I have mentioned is actually or was actually
a member of the Communist Party when I was a member of the
Communist Party, or whether I have mixed up the names of anyone
in this list who was not a member of the party. I want to say for
myself and for the press that any name that I mention here, unless
I so identify it, that these people were members of the party. The
expression I used before, "I didn't want to hang anybody," I simply
meant that I wanted to pin-point it to be sure. I didn't want anyone
to lose his job or to suffer any kind of reprisal for hearsay. I don't
believe that will happen. I am sure, I am certain, I am under oath
right now, and I have been fighting the Communists since 1942
or 1943, and I am certain of what I am saying. I just want to impress
that on everyone.
Mr. Tavenner. I endeavored to make it very plain in questioning"
you that I was asking you for the names of members of the Com-
munist Party who were known as such by you.
Mr. Berkeley. I know you were, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. To your knowledge.
Mr. Berkeley. That's right, sir.
1594 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. I want to give you any opportunity that you may
want to make any explanation regarding this matter that you desire.
You have told the committee that you were transferred from one
group to another on several occasions.
Mr. Berkeley. That's right, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. How many different groups were there of the Com-
munist Party of which you think you were a member?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, there was the group in New York, and I
would say exclusive of that I was probably in at least a dozen groups,
•exclusive, of course, of fractions in whose work I took part, which
was one of the reasons why I knew so many Communists.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask you at this time to give the
committee the names of any other persons known to you personally
to have been members of the Communist Party during the time that
you were a member, which you have not already given us, and in so
doing to tell us as nearly as you can the circumstances under which
you knew them to be members of the Communist Party.
Mr. Berkeley. Well, that is rather difficult, Mr. Tavenner. I have
an enormous list here. I am afraid we would be here all day if I
started to talk in terms of how I met them and where I met them.
These people that I will name as having been in my group may have
come into the group and stayed for one meeting and then shuttled
out into another group or have come into the group and left town,
may have stayed in the group for a year after I left that particular
group. All I will say is that I knew them then as party members.
Mr. Tavenner. Very well, sir.
Mr. Berkeley. A man named Lou Amster, A-m-s-t-e-r, a writer ; a
Miss Isobel Lennart, L-e-n-n-a-r-t, who was a reader. I originally
knew Isobel as a reader, as a member of the Screen Readers' Guild.
Later she became a very, very successful screen writer at Metro-Gold-
wyn-Mayer. Paul Jarrico was in a number of groups with me. That
is J-a-r-r-i-c-o. A young actress named Frances Sage. There was
a gentleman in the group with me for — well, a number of groups,
named Bob Roberts, R-ob-e-r-t-s. Bob Roberts is a partner of John
Garfield's; and his [Robert Roberts'] wife, Catherine O'Neal. I don't
know which way she spells O'Neal. Dr. Leo Bigelman, I think it is
B-i-g-e-1-m-a-n. I don't know how he spells his name. Bigelman.
I saw his picture in the paper this morning.
Mr. Tavenner. In connection with the hearings that occurred here
yesterday ?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. Wilma Shore, the daughter of Viola
Brothers Shore, also a Communist, and the wife of Lou Solomon,
a writer and a member of the Screen Writers' Guild. A woman
named Helen Slote. I think her name was spelled S-1-o-t-e. She
was secretary of the party fraction in the Actors' Lab and I believe
also a secretary to John Garfield.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not she appeared as a
witness here yesterday?
Mr. Berkeley. I think she did, sir, with her husband.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know her present married name?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, I don't know — I believe she must be still
married to the chap she was married to when I knew them. I haven't
heard otherwise. His name is Al Levitt. I think it is L-e-v-i-t-t —
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1595'
one or two "t's" — I don't know. George Willner, an agent. Mr.
Chairman, may I take a moment or two here to talk about Mr. Will-
ner?
Mr. Tavenner. Be very glad for you to.
Mr. Berkeley. His friendship affected my own fortunes. We have
heard a lot of talk about how the industry has kept Reds out of work,,
and I would like to tell the committee how it kept myself, an anti-
Communist, out of work. I was under contract with Twentieth Cen-
tury-Fox starting in 1945. My agent at the time was George Willner.
However, he did not secure me the position with Twentieth Century-
Fox, but one of his associates, a non-Communist, did. I went to Fox.
I did one job, as the result of which I secured a contract. When the
war was over and the Duclos letter had split the party and it became
possible for me to really function as an anti-Communist organiza-
tionally, I went to George Willner and asked him point-blank if he was
still a Communist, and he assured me that he was no longer a Com-
munist, and, like a chump, I took his word for it. Taking his word
for it cost me a hundred thousand dollars. When my contract was
terminated at Twentieth Century-Fox, Willner was still my agent.
He said, "Why don't you go away on a vacation, Martin ? You have
been working for 10 years. Have some fun."
I went back east, and my son's graduation from prep school, and
had a lot of fun and spent a lot of money and stayed away for sev-
eral months and called him up and asked him what was happening
out here, and he said, "Nothing; it's quiet; it's summertime; things
are slow; you know how it is," and I finally came back with my wife
to Hollywood, opened up the house, and a strange thing happened.
A writer employed for 10 straight years, writing commercial success
after commercial success, suddenly, for 19 months, finds he can't get
a job. It didn't look right. I stayed with Willner's agency, the
Goldston Agency — what I say bears no reflection at all on the Gold-
stone Agency because they were completely unaware of that fact
that Willner was a Communist, and as soon as they found out they
tossed him out on his ear. I stayed with Willner 9 or 10 or 11 months,
whatever it might be, looking for a job. Nothing happened. I finally
changed agents.
My agent says, "There is a funny resistance to you. I don't know
what is going on. I can't get you a job." I changed agents again.
My agent got me a job. Just about this time a friend of mine in the
studios said, "I see you finally found a story you were willing to-
work on." I said, "What do you mean?"
He said, "Well, I gave Willner scripts time after time to give to
you to read and the answer always came back you didn't like the
script ; you didn't like the assignment."
I said, "I never received a script in all the time that Willner rep-
resented me from the time my contract was up with Fox."
In other words, this man who had told me he was no longer a Com-
munist had deliberately sabotaged me, kept me out of work for 19'
straight months by withholding scripts from the studios. After a
while the studios would say, "If Berkeley is getting so high and
mighty, we won't give him a script to read."
As the result of the machinations of Mr. Willner, I had to cut my
salary when I went back to work. Fortunately, however, I got on-
1596 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
a script that was a good script, and I am back in the swing again.
At present I am employed, but Mr. Willner deliberately, directly —
and I'll say this inside of committee or outside of committee, because
I was an anti-Communist, because he was in a position to represent
me — kept me out of work and cost me 19 months of salary.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you active in your opposition to the Com-
munist Party during that period of time?
Mr. Berkeley. I was, sir. I left the party — I imagine we will get
to the actual mechanics of why and how I left the party later. I left
the party around 1943. There was a war going on. It was a honey-
moon between us and the Reds. There wasn't much to do about being
an anti-Communist. As soon as I saw what was going on in the
Screen Writers' Guild, as soon as I found that there were enough
other men who were liberals who still did not want us to be Commu-
nist-dominated, we formed a committee called the All-Guild Com-
mittee. This committee had no official connection with the guild.
It was a rump organization outside of the guild whose sole purpose
was to get control of the guild board away from the Reds and return
it to the membership. I was chairman of that committee at Twentieth
Century-Fox from 1947 when we formed this committee until 1949
when I left Fox. My proxy is still held by the same gentleman who
has held it since I gave it, Allen Rivkin.
I want to say this, that due to the efforts of the All-Guild Committee,
with the exception of one member whom I will name later, there are
no Communists on the board of the Screen Writers' Guild today. We
got rid of the rats; the other guilds are friendly to us; we are able to
negotiate with the producers; we have a better contract than we ever
had before; and Hollywood is a better place in which to live, let me
tell you.
I want to have you pay some attention to the men who helped form
this All-Guild committee. In the past Mr. Brewer made a lengthy
statement, for which I am very happy, of what his particular group
did in driving the Reds out of the industry, and we writers have been
under fire for years, and in many cases justly so, for the Communist
control and infiltration in our guild, and I was one of those who in-
filtrated. I think that the entire industry owes a debt of gratitude to
Allen Rivkin, who was chairman of the All-Guild Committee and who
today is president of the Motion Picture Industry Council. I think
we owe a great debt of gratitude to Art Arthur, a writer who is now
executive secretary of the industry council; and to Leonard Spiegel-
gass; and to Karl Tunberg, the head of our guild; and to George
Seaton and Valentine Davies, Adele Buffington, and to all the others.
We drove the rascals out of the guild, and they are never coming
back in our guild again, I promise you.
The other Red I remember, a woman called Ann Roth Morgan —
by golly, I know I forgot to mention another name which is very
important in connection with this.
When we organized our guild way, way back, the secretary of the
Screen Writers' Guild that was employed by the guild also was a
member of the Communist Party and later became a' member of the
State Department, from which hie was subsequently thrown out. His
name was Charles Page. I believe succeeding Charles Page as execu-
tive secretary of our guild was another comrade, a woman known as
Ann Roth Morgan. I think her last name is or was Morgan.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1597
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what her present married name is?
Mr. Berkeley. I have heard her name is Richards — I believe her
name is Richards. I am not certain of it and if I am correct — I believe
her name is Richards and she is married to a writer.
Mr. Tavenner. You are correct in the name.
Mr. Berkeley. So we had two executive secretaries in a row who
were Communists. If I may jump ahead, the third executive secretary
of the guild was also a Communist. I will get to him.
Also in my group during this period was a writer named Harold
Goldman and his wife Kathleen Goldman; an actress named Mary
Virginia Farmer ; also a director of a few pictures out here, the man
who produced and directed Angel Street in New York and in which I
had an interest, Shepherd Traube ; another member of our group was
Lorry Blankfort, B-1-a-n-k-f-o-r-t ; and Albert Maltz.
Also in our group were Dan James, J-a-m-e-s, and his wife Lilleth,
who I believe are present today, and wrote the book of Bloomer Girl.
The gentleman I have already mentioned, the husband of Helen
Sloate, Al Levitt; a girl named Alice Goldberg, a secretary who sub-
sequently married Ian McLellan Hunter; and George Willner's wife,
Tiba, T-i-b-a. Tiba Willner was very, very active, and I believe — I'm
not certain of this — has been a courier for the Comintern.
Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of having known these persons whose
names you have given us as members of the Communist Party, either
through having met with them in Communist Party meetings or in
fraction meetings.
Mr. Berkeley. That's right, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that true with respect to all of the persons whose
names you have just mentioned ?
Mr. Berkeley. That's true.
Mr. Tavenner. What fraction meetings did you attend? I know
you will not be able to tell us that in detail, but give us a general
description of those meetings and the purposes of them.
Mr. Berkeley. Well, we had a fraction of the Screen Writers'
Guild. The guild fraction, especially in its early days, and you
gentlemen are quite familiar with the struggle we had in the early
days of the guild, we had the advice of Mr. Charles Katz, an attorney
at law in this town, in our legal problems in the guild. Mr. Katz was
a member of the party. Lester Cole, Ian McLellan Hunter, to whom
I referred before, who was married to Alice Goldberg, John Wexley,
W-e-x-1-e-y, the playwright. Marguerite Roberts, who is a writer at
Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, and the Charles Page I spoke about before
who is no longer with the State Department. Fred Rinaldo, a writer,
and his collaborator, Bob Lees.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether that is the same Bob Lees
who appeared before the Committee on Un-American Activities in
Washington ?
Mr. Berkeley. It is, sir.
(At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson left the room.)
Mr. Berkeley. Albert Maltz, the writer. Now we come to the third
member of the party who was also an executive secretary of my guild,
William Pomerantz, who had been with the NLRB and who, on the
recommendation of party members on the board, was entrusted with
the job of guiding our guild through its struggle.
1598 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know anything about the connection of
William Pomerantz with the National Labor Relations Board, or any
function of that Board, prior to his coming to California?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. He was a member of the Board, I believe,
in the South. It may have been New Orleans, I'm not sure. I know
he worked with the NLRB down South and he worked with them back
East. He was under fire constantly for the stand he took. He was
suspected of having sympathies too far to the left. Either about the
time he was to lose his job with the NLRB, or having lost it, the com-
rades out here felt that he was an ideal man to move into our guild
and they promptly proceeded to move Pomerantz into our guild.
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Was he what is known as a field examiner with the
National Labor Relations Board?
Mr. Berkeley. He was.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether at the time he was a mem-
ber of the Communist Party here in California that he was serving
in that capacity, that is as a field agent of the National Labor Rela-
tions Board?
Mr. Berkeley. Do you mean whether I know at the time he was
working for the Government he was also a party member?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Berkeley. Sir, I cannot say to my own personal knowledge.
I can only say that he was brought out here by the party to work in
the guild, and was a party member when he got here because he was
brought right into our fraction. I can presume from that that he
was a party member before he reached California.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you be reasonably accurate as to the date
when you first learned that he was a member of the Communist Party ?
That is a very important matter and I don't want you to guess at it.
If you don't know I would rather for you to say so rather than to give
an estimate.
Mr. Berkeley. I would rather not guess, Mr. Tavenner. I believe
you can consult the records of the guild, or I am sure the guild will
furnish you the precise date we hired this man, because there was a
very short time lapse between his employment by the Government
and his employment by the guild. I wouldn't hazard a guess. I
don't want to do any guessing and I know you don't want me to.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know why his relationship with the Na-
tional Labor Relations Board was terminated?
Mr. Berkeley. I would say, sir, I don't know. He never told me.
It would all be hearsay and I would rather not
Mr. Tavenner. It would not be hearsay if he told you.
Mr. Berkeley. He did not tell me so ; he didn't tell me so. Other
people have told me so, and I don't want to repeat hearsay.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where William Pomerantz is now ?
Mr. Berkeley. I understand a lot of people would like to know
that.
Mr. Tavenner. We are among them.
Mr. Berkeley. Are you ? I didn't know that. I don't know where
he is.
May I go on ?
Mr. Tavenner. Now if you will proceed.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1599
Mr. Berkeley. Another member of the fraction was Waldo Salt.
We had a visitor from abroad named Joris Ivens, J-o-r-i-s I-v-e-n-s.
Mr. Ivens was a maker of documentary film who discussed the prob-
lem of making films under battle conditions before our fraction. By
battle conditions I mean in Spain. Another writer who is now the
TV story editor for a large company was Josef, spelled with an "f",
Mischel, M-i-s-c-h-e-1 ; Carl Dreher, D-r-e-h-e-r, who was an engineer
and a technician but for some reason which I have never understood
worked for a time with the Screen Writers' fraction. Cyril Endfield,
E-n-d-f-i-e-1-d, a writer-director; and a writer named Charles
Leonard, no relation to Isobel Lennard, which is L-e-o-n-a-r-d ; and
Carl Foreman, that is spelled F-o-r-e-m-a-n. I believe he wrote the
screen play of Cyrano de Bergerac and the Champion, and other very
fine pictures. Arnold Manoff
Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you a question there. Does Mr. Fore-
man hold any position, to your knowledge, with the Screen Writers'
Guild?
Mr. Berkeley. I am glad you asked me that, sir, because that is
very important. I said before that there was only one Communist —
let me rephrase that, There is on the guild today only one man I
know who was ever a Communist, This man has never, to my knowl-
edge, disavowed his communism. His name is Carl Foreman, the
man I just mentioned. He is the only one left on our board. I hope
he appears here, sir, and clears himself because it will help me clear
the guild and that is a job I want to do.
A writer named Arnold Manolf, M-a-n-o-f-f ; another writer named
Richard Weil, spelled W-e-i-1 ; a writer Gertrude Purcell, Hugo But-
ler, Da It on Trumbo.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the particular interest of the fraction
meetings, as far as you know, when you met with those individuals?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, the fraction meeting in the guild, it all de-
pended on the particular period in which the fraction was in being,
because in the beginning the fraction was organized for the purpose
of organizing the guild.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, that covered the entire period of
your membership in the guild I
Mr. Berkeley. That is quite correct, sir; during many different
issues; verv many different members.
Mr. Tavenner. Were there any other fraction meetings which stand
out in your recollection?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, there was a fraction dealing with minority
problems, the problems of Negroes, Mexicans, Jews, Italians, for
which a great deal of time and effort went,
Mr. Tavenner. And again, by fraction meetings, I mean fraction
meetings of the Communist Party.
Mr. Berkeley. Of the Communist Party. Someone asked me
where the name "fraction" came from, whether it was "faction," and I
told this gentleman that if there was a faction you were thrown
out of the party; that it is a fraction, which was called a fraction
because it was a part of the whole.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, will you tell us about the work of those frac-
tion meetings.
Mr. Berkeley. The fraction dealing with minority groups — and
again, this ran over a period of time. Jerome Chodorov, one of the
1600 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
authors of My Sister Eileen, was a party member, and Lester Koenig?.
K-o-e-n-i-g, who is now an associate producer; Roland Kibbee, K-i-b-
b-e-e, and Marguerite Roberts, husband John Sanford, a writer,
Morton Grant and Melvin Levy, L-e-v-y, Allen Boretz, B-o-r-e-t-z,
coauthor of Room Service; Hy Kraft, K-r-a-f-t. I presume that is
Hyman. I have always known him as Hy. His name is spelled
K-r-a-f-t. Paul Trivers, a writer who later, I believe, was story
editor for John Garfield; W. L. River; a musician known as Leon
Becker, B-e-c-k-e-r ; and Guy Endore, E-n-d-o-r-e.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like you to tell us a little more about the
character of the work of the Communist Party through the fractions
dealing with the minority groups which you are now discussing.
Mr. Berkeley. Well, it took various forms. There was the problem
of the minority group in the picture, in the film, itself ; in the story you
were working on. In the past many minority groups were degraded,
both in the theater and in pictures, and a great deal of time and study
went into the problem of how to treat the minority group in pictures.
The problem of a Jew, how he should be made up, how he should
speak; the manner of the Negro, and quite correctly so; other work
that was done — you see, things like the Scottsboro boys, they came
under this particular group, and Guy Endore wrote a pamphlet
through the work of this and other groups dealing with the Scotts-
boro case
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Berkeley, the committee has from time to time
heard evidence relating to the Communist Party line and activity
with reference to the Scottsboro trial. We had been under the impres-
sion or arrived at the conclusion that the Communist Party was ex-
ploiting that incident for the benefit of the Communist Party.
Mr. Berkeley. I believe they were, sir, and I would like your per-
mission to take that up a little later in my testimoiry, because it is
pertinent, actually, to one of the reasons for which I left the party.
Mr. Tavenner. Very well.
Mr. Berkeley. The exploitation of the Negro by the Communist.
Mr. Tavenner. Very well. There is an organization in Hollywood
known as the Hollywood Theatre Alliance ?
Mr. Berkeley. There was such an organization ; yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you come in contact with the work of that
organization ?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes. I wTorked — I attended a few meetings of the
fraction of that organization around 1938 or 1939.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the circumstances under which it was
organized ?
Mr. Berkeley. The Hollywood Theatre Alliance was organized
directly by the Communist Party for the purpose of presenting so-
called progressive or left-wing or anti-Fascist propaganda.
I believe their first production, which was the one I couldn't think
of before in relation to Mr. Bassman, was Meet the People, which was
very successful both here and in New York. I attended a meeting of
the fraction which helped organize the Hollywood Theatre Alliance,
although I had no active part in the Theatre Alliance at all. As a
matter of fact, I attended a meeting of this organization, and subse-
quently when there was talk of doing my Lincoln play, by that time
there was no money left and the Lincoln play was never done. The
leading spirits in the fraction were
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1601
Mr. Tavenner. And again, by fraction, you are referring to mem-
bers of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Berkeley. Dues-paying members of the Communist Party.
Mostly, actually, the members of this fraction were the men who
helped organize" the show and put it on; writer, director, and so forth.
Edward Elisku, E-1-i-s-k-u, the writer, was a member of this group
and very active in the show itself. Incidentally, it was a very amus-
ing show. Robert Rossen.
Mr. Tavenner. Is he the same Robert Rossen who appeared before
the Committee on Un-American Activities, as far as you know ?
Mr. Berkeley. He is, sir. Edward Chodorov, C-h-o-d-o-r-o-v. In-
cidentally, he was the first producer I worked for in town, and the
man I went with was Guy Endore, to go way back early this morning.
He is a well-known playwright and producer. And Henry Blank-
fort, a writer.
Mr. Tavenner. Is he the same individual who appeared before this
committee yesterday ?
Mr. Berkeley. He is, sir. I saw his picture in the paper, and there
is no doubt in my mind. Danny Dare, producer and director who
has worked for several of the major studios in both capacities and,
I believe, is now working on television. Please understand, I can
only take you up to 1942 or 1943, that period. Many of these people
may possibly have left the party since then. At this time these people
were party people. Bernard Vorhous, V-o-r-h-o-u-s, a director. Jay
Gorney, G-o-r-n-e-y, who is a writer and a lyricist. Another writer,
Ben Barzman, B-a-r-z-m-a-n, and his collaborator, Bess Taffel. I
think her name is spelled T-a-f-f -e-1. One or two "f ' s" ; I am not sure.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether she is the same Bess Taffel
who occupied the chair yesterday that you are now occupying?
Mr. Berkeley. She is the same girl. George Sklar, an excellent
writer. Irving J. White and Francis Faragoh, spelled F-a-r-a-g-o-h,,
the writer.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting in the home of Offner?
I understood you to say you attended a meeting but you did not
state where it was.
Mr. Berkeley. I attended the first meeting of this group at the
home of Mortimer Offner who was then a screen writer, and today,
I believe, is a television writer or producer or director. I don't know
which. O-f-f-n-e-r.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the names of any other persons
known to you to have been members of the Communist Party who
cannot be identified by you as members of any particular fractions
or groups?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. You see, in addition to the party life,,
there is a certain amount of social life, and with some of the follow-
ing I can't say I met them in a fraction, I can't say I met them in a.
group. I can only say I met them in the party. That may have been
at a social function at someone's home where I was introduced to
Comrade Jones or met someone on the street and received a similar
introduction. The presumption can only be that when you were in-
troduced to Comrade Jones and he said, "This is Comrade Berkeley,"
that Comrade Jones is Comrade Jones. A writer named Howard
Dimsdale, D-i-m-s-d-a-1-e; a director, Michael Gordon.
1602 COMMUNISM EST MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. Is he the same individual who appeared as a wit-
ness here in this committee yesterday ?
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir. The actor, Howard DaSilva.
Mr. Tavenner. Is he the same person who appeared before the
committee in Washington?
Mr. Berkeley. He is the same posing man. Albert Bein, B-e-i-n,
a writer. A musician named Wayne Ronka, R-o-n-k-a, and another
musician named Sam Albert, A-1-b-e-r-t. I believe I mentioned
Spencer Austrian earlier in connection with — or maybe I didn't. We
had two legal talents at our disposal in the writers' fraction in 1937
and 1938. We had Mr. Charles Katz' services as a member of the
fraction and the services of Spencer Austrian as a member of the frac-
tion, both attorneys of the bar of this State. A writer named Maurice
Clark, and if you catch me on this one — Paul Cline. I don't know how
he spells his name, though I think it is C-1-i-n-e. Paul Cline. He was
a party functionary, I believe, around 1937. He was the head of this
district of the party in Los Angeles. There have been various rumors
that he was expelled at a later date, but I have no knowledge of it.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, Mr. Berkeley, I would like for you to tell
the committee what the purposes and objectives of the Communist
Party were in endeavoring to organize the moving-picture industry.
What is it they were attempting to accomplish and the methods by
which they expected to accomplish their purposes?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, I think in addition to the work I spoke of
earlier, work in the trade-unions and the guilds, that they were satis-
fied pretty early that they could not influence the content of pictures.
As a side on that, I heard Mr. Biberman talking over the TV the first
day of the hearings here and he said that ever since the unfriendly
10 had been put away and since the hearings of this committee have
progressed to the point they have, that the content of the pictures
of this town had seriously gotten worse; that now we were making
pictures that deal only with sex. I don't know whether they are
uninterested in sex in the Communist Party, but I vaguely remember
some of the pictures that Mr. Biberman made. He said that we were
only concerned with melodrama, and I couldn't understand why the
absence of 10 men or the purging of 25 or 30, which I hope is done
soon, from the industry is going to make the quality of our product
any worse, because I believe that the product that we are turning out
today is as good or better than it ever was. I don't believe at any
time that the party, with the exception of a silly picture like Blockade, a
badly made, badly written picture, has been affected. I am reminded
of one day at Stander's house. He came in all excited. He says,
"By golly, I got away with it." I said, "What did you get away
with?" because — I dont' want to refer to him again as a screwball,
but the man was a screwball. He said, "Well, I was shooting this pic-
ture, and I had to wait for the elevator, and I pressed the button and
there is a pause, and the director said, 'Whistle something and fill in,'
so I whistled four bars of the Internationale." Well, whether that
ever got on film or not, I don't know, but that was about the extent
of what the Communists were able to do. A picture goes through too
many hands. It is controlled by too many minds for any single writer
or producer or actor to affect its content.
I believe, actually, that the main purposes of the party out here
were prestige and financial. If they were able to get enough names
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1603
of decent, honest people who were interested in good causes on the
masthead of enough front organizations and raise enough money,
they would be ahead of the game. To my personal knowledge, I have
never seen a financial balance sheet of any front organization of any
kind of the Communist Party, and I don't think the Income Tax De-
partment has ever seen one. I would be very interested in seeing
some of them. When you have a movement like the Hollywood
Anti-Nazi League, which was organized by the Communists to take
advantage of the prevailing anti-Nazi sentiment of this town and
which grew and which flourished, and you see a gentleman who says, "If
you will call the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League, the Hollywood Anti-
Nazi and Anti-Communist League, I personally will raise a mil-
lion dollars." I was told in a fraction meeting that David Selznick had
offered personally to guarantee the sum of $1 million to the Holly-
wood Anti-Nazi League if the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League, which
was directly under the control of Communists, would change its name
to Hollywood Anti-Nazi and Anti-Communist League, and the boys
turned a million dollars down. They said, "Keep your money, Mr.
Selznick," because they knew what would happen. They knew that
Mr. Selznick would stick his auditors in there and that the money
would be used, number one, for the purpose for which Mr. Selznick
wanted it used, which was anti-Fascist and anti-Communist, and they
didn't want any funds used to fight themselves. That happened time
and time again. One of their other purposes, outside of that type of
front organization, was the political organization, the Motion Pic-
ture Democratic Committee. The Democratic Party and the Re-
publican Party both are very weak organizationally in the studios
because Hollywood as such is not an entity. We are scattered all
through the county, and the Communists seized on the popularity
of Roosevelt, on the temperature and the climate of that particular
period to organize the Motion Picture Democratic Committee. I
believe I was on the board of directors of that committee, and we
enlisted many nonparty people.
Now, I want it understood, the people I am mentioning now are
nonparty people and by no stretch of the imagination am I label-
ing them anything except nonparty people, and they were antiparty
people, people like Phil Dunne, Helen Gahagen Douglas, Milton
Sperling, Melvyn Douglas; good liberal people like that were sucked
into our Motion Picture Democratic Committee which we built up
into a flourishing institution, and when Finland came along. Phil
Dunne said, "Take a stand on Finland and denounce Russia." We
Communists said, "Oh, no, we can't denounce Russia." That is the
holy of holies. So we smashed the very organization we had spent
a year in building, because we were more interested in the Soviet
Union than we were in the truth. Now, vast sums of money have
been raised in this town, enormous sums of money. I have been
asked by the investigator for this committee to estimate the sum,
the FBI have asked me at various times how much. I don't think
anybody can make an honest estimate of the millions of dollars that
were taken out of this town under the pretext of the Hollywood Anti-
Nazi League, the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee, the Com-
mittee to Aid the Lettuce Workers, the committee for this, the com-
mittee for that ; a whole list of them. That money never got where it
81595— 51— pt. 4 13
1604 COMMUNISM IN MOTION- PICTURE INDUSTRY
was going, I'm sorry to say. It went, organizationally, I am firmly
convinced, to the Communist Party.
Many of our best people in the party were trapped that way. So
1 think primarily the job of the Communpist Party in Hollywood
was not to affect pictures but to raise money and get the value of
prestige names.
In addition to the Communist Party members in this town we had
a block of angels. I am sorry to say, gentlemen, I don't know who
they were. These were nonparty people, not members at large, but
nonparty people who gave sums. One man 1 was told was a regular
contributor of $400 a week directly to the party coffers. I do not
know his name. So in addition to the dues that were collected, in
addition to the sucker money (hat was taken out of the front organiza-
tions, there was the sucker money from some very important people
here who gave on faith. Now, remember, when I say "'on faith," that
was the period of 1937, 1038, 1939, when the Communist Party was the
only vocal enemy of the Nazis. All the rest of the parties straddled
the fence. And that was the big bait.
Does that answer your question, sir?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes; it does. I would like to ask you further, how-
ever, what plan or general plan was adopted with regard to the assess-
ment of Communist Party members.
Mr. Berkeley. Mr. Tavenner, I do not recall precisely what the
percentage was. I remember this, you paid as a party member a
minimum amount of dues. In addition to this you paid a percentage
of your salary. I cannot give you any information on what the per-
centage was because I just don't recollect the percentage. They got
enough.
Mr. Tavenner. How was the percentage of assessment deter-
mined
Mr. Berkeley. By what you owned.
Mr. Tavenner. And by whom?
Mr. Berkeley. You determined it pretty much yourself. If it were
2 or 3 or 4 percent, you were making a thousand dollars a week, you
paid 2 or 3 or 4 percent of a thousand dollars a week and the party
took you at your word.
Mr. Tavenner. I understand. But who fixed the amount of
percentage?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, nothing was really fixed. You were told. A
meeting was called — there might be a meeting of the financial secretary
out of the bureau, in which the matter of dues — they would say, "Com-
rades, we are not getting enough money ; our overhead has increased ;
we are going to have to increase our dues." And it was increased.
That is called democratic centralism. You told them to increase it
and it is increased. You take orders, that's all. The minute you
think, you are chopped.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there any censorship exerted by the leadership
in the Communist Party upon the activities of the writers?
Mr. Berkeley. Do you mean social censorship in regard to your
work ?
Mr. Tavenner. I had in mind with regard to the character of your
work.
Mr. Berkeley. Well, I think I covered that before.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1605
Now. they realized they were unable, actually, to affect the content
of pictures. I am completely convinced, as sure as I am sitting here,
that the content of pictures was not affected by the party. Now. it
is an interesting comment that all the years that the party was yelling,
uWe are going to make progressive pictures," the most progressive pic-
tures in this industry have been made by nonparty people. The great
pictures have been made by nonparty people — I repeat that again.
Gentlemen's Agreement and pictures of that sort had no connection
with the party. They were studio projects. The studio didn't make
them essentially out of a sense of "We are going to discuss this week,
comrades, the Jewish or the Negro question." The time was ripe
and Mr. Zanuck, Mr. Mayer, or Mr. Senary, or Mr. Warner felt the
time was right to make a picture dealing with a specific problem,
the same as they felt the time had come to make a picture like Behind
the Iron Curtain or they might feel it was right to make westerns.
They made progressive pictures because the time was right to make
them.
I do not believe that the content of films was touched in one iota by
the Reds. However, plays were something different ; books were some-
thing else again.
John Howard Lawson started on a long-range project to write a
history. He kept writing that history and rewriting that history
because he would get it finished and then he would give it to the com-
mittee. The comrades who were censoring him, or guiding him —
that is a great word "guiding." The other great word is "self -disci-
pline." Self-discipline is when you do something wrong that someone
else wants you to do. They would say, "No, this isn't the way history
happened."
And Lawson says, "But all my research tells me this is the way
history happened."
"Oh, no, it didn't."
Lawson is a good Communist. He changes history.
Then comes a note from New York, from the center, it happened
another way, we lost that battle instead of winning it. So again the
history book got rewritten. As far as I know that book has never
been published.
We had a case — again I am talking about Lawson, where he did
a play called Processional, many many years ago. It was the first
of the impressionistic plays that borrowed heavily from the Germans.
It was a very exciting play, experimental play, very thrilling play.
Well, the WPA came along and the Federal theater project wanted
to do some exciting plays. Someone latched onto Processional. Then
we had the spectacle of the high commissar of Hollywood going to
New York, having his play done by the Federal theater project, having
it criticized by the party press for being reactionary and ant i worker,
and then the party moving heaven and earth to throw actors out of
work because the pkvy didn't agree with their party line.
That is a pretty nice kind of a job of censorship. I don't think I
need belabor that point any more.
Mr. Tavenner. You indicated, when I asked you the question, that
there was some possibility of a censorship of a social character.
Mr. Berkeley. Oh, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What did you have reference to there ?
1606 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Berkeley. Well, my first real sharp conflict, I mean an ideolog-
ical conflict with the party came about when I was assigned to work
with a certain gentleman at Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer. He was not a
Communist. He was, let's call him, the right-wing, reactionary, what-
ever you want to call him. He is a very prominent writer. I enjoyed
working with him. I was assigned to work with him by my employer
and we subsequently wrote either four or five pictures together.
Actually, one of the things that caused me to leave the party was
the fact that Lawson and Collins and Jarrico and Biberman called
me in and said, "Why are you working with this man?"
I said, "I was hired to work with him. That is my job."
He said, "Don't you know he is an antiparty man?"
"Sure I know he is an antiparty man. He doesn't like my politics,
either, but we are working together."
Tremendous pressure was brought on me to quit my assignment,
to quit my job, because this man happened to be a member of the
Motion Picture Alliance. They didn't say this man is a bad writer,
they didn't say he shot his wife. They said, "He is a reactionary,
you can't work with him, it's bad for you."
And that was the beginning of my social freeze in this town, work-
ing with that kind of a man is almost as bad as working with a
Trotskyite. Anybody you don't like is a Trotskyite, a Fascist, you
know.
My friend Harry was a Fascist. Harry is a good writer; I liked
working with him. I would like to work with him again.
Mr. Tavenner. When was it that you became inactive in the work
of the party?
Mr. Berkeley. Do you mean inactive in the work of the party or
do you mean when did I begin to get butterflies?
Mr. Tavenner. Well, you put it your own way.
Mr. Berkeley. Well, I will put it my own way.
Well, I first got knocked over by the pact. I swallowed the pact,
it made sense, the official explanation. The Russians were stalling
for time ; I swallowed it.
Along comes the war and everybody says, "You see, they were stall-
ing for time. You see, the British aren't fighting, the French aren't
fighting- — great."
This tiling kept up and our country is sending ships to England
and planes to England and trying to help England stay on her feet,
and the party is yelling, "The Yanks aren't coming." And I was
surprised to find the Communist Party adopting the line of America
First.
One day, without saying anything to anyone, except my wife, I
went downtown to this neighborhood here and I gave some money to
the William Allen White Committee, the committee to defend America
by aiding the allies. Now, I was chicken. I should have made the
break then. I didn't. I gave them money and I kept on in the
party.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you raise your voice a little bit ?
Mr. Berkeley. I gave money to the William Allen White Com-
mittee and continued with my work in the party. This was early in
1941 before Russia was attacked.
Russia is attacked and suddenly I find out, "Kid, you were right,
you were smart." I ride along with the boys. And now the Yanks
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1607
are coming. The old party line changes. It's a good war now, we've
got to get this country into war.
So one clay I am fighting to keep us out of the war and the next day
I am driving us into the war. That's all right if you have a swivel
TtPf*, K
I am working at the studio and the social pressure is bding brought
to bear on me, "You can't work with this writer; you shouldn't work
there with this writer." They are yelling for a second front. Oh,
boy, they yelled for a second front.
And I was then working at Metro and Richard Collins and Paul
Jarrico had been working on a picture called Song of Russia.
My friend James Kevin McGuinness, who is now dead, and for
whom I have a great regard, walked into my office one day and said,
"Can you talk to those kids of yours," meaning Jarrico and Collins,
"and of mine," meaning you are the oldest Communist, I think, on
the lot, "about the script they are turning in ?" He told me that they
had the American leading man, played by Bob Taylor, a boy from
Iowa in the Soviet Union on this tour, completely unaware of how to
run a tractor. Now, any American who can run a car can run a
tractor. But these were two comrades, to build up the Soviet Union,
have the Russian girl, who probably has shoes on for the first time,
show Bob Taylor, the American musician, the wonders of a tractor
and he is a boy from Iowa. That was too much for Mr. McGuinness
to swallow and it was too much for me to swallow. So I went to Jar-
rico and to Collins and we had a "hassle." It was a good one, They
called me names and I called them names, and it went on and it went
on.
I still say you tell the truth in a picture, as much of the truth as you
can, as much of the truth you tell here in your books or in your home
life. That's what it is for. I could not see the United States being
run down to make a point for anybody else, because it is bad picture
making, because everybody in Missouri who sees this picture glorify-
ing the Soviet Union, all the propaganda value is going out of the
picture when they see the boy from Iowa doesn't know what the clutch
or the brake is on a tractor. It is just stupidity. It is bad politics on
the part of Jarrico and Collins. That shook me.
In comes Mr. McGuinness one day and he says, "Do you know how
much they have raised for the Scottsboro boys?"
"No." "
He says, "My figures shows they have raised $2,000,000 for the
Scottsboro boys and Judge Leibowitz has given his services for noth-
ing. What has happened to the money ?
Now, McGuinness and I had a strange relationship. McGuinness
was the organizer and first leader of the Motion Picture Alliance, and
I was a friend of his, and I was also known to McGuinness as a Com-
munist,
He said, "What's happening to that money?"
I said, "I don't know."
Pie said, "Well, you are going to have to find out some day because
somebody is going to ask the question." And he said, "You got your
name on the committee list; maybe they will ask you that question,
maybe you are responsible for moneys and taxes unpaid, or theft or
larceny, or what have you." He said, "By the way, you are also a
member of the Joint Anti-Fascist Committee, aren't you ?"
81595 — 51— at. 4 14.
1608 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
I said, "Yes."
"Did you ever hear of a non-Communist being saved by the Joint
Anti-Fascist Committee?" He said, "Now, look, I don't care if they
save the Commies if they are in trouble there," he said, "but did you
ever hear of a Socialist being saved, or of a Republican being saved,
or of a Social Democrat being saved by the league?"
I said, "I don't know. I just give my dough."
He said, "Why don't you find out, sucker?"
So sucker marched off to see Mr. John Howard Lawson, and there
I got the double talk. And believe you me, that boy can dish out
double talk. He is an expert.
All this time they are yelling, "We want a second front, we want
a second front, we want a second front."
And a man named Churchill, who I thought was a little smarter
than I was, and slightly smarter than Mr. Lawson, and probably it
occurred to me, a lot more honest than Mr. Stalin, said, "No second
front." But we wanted the second front and we got a second front
and the troubles of the world today are due to the second front which
we got then, because if we had gone through the surf on our belly, if
we had the Balkans on the side of the Western Powers, there would
be no east-west problem today. It was Mr. Churchill, more than any-
thing else, plus the constant switch of line, plus my belief that these
men were essentially thieves, that caused me to break with the party
in 1942 or 1943.
Now the break was final. And strange enough no one ever came
after me and said, "Join." I guess they knew I wasn't having any
of it.
In 1944 I was told that the Communist Party had been dissolved,
that a group known as the Communist Political Association had been
formed which was going to take in Socialists, Progressives of the La
Follette ilk, left-wing Democrats, Utopians, et cetera, and would I
come to a meeting. I went to such a meeting. The meeting was held
in the valley, and I have racked my brains for the place at which this
meeting was held. There were about a hundred people there. It was
at somebody's home. I don't remember whose home it was.
There we got the new line, capitalism lives with socialism. No more
communism, the bunk. Gradually communism will wither away; we
will take over. I didn't buy that, either.
I missed the impact of the control. That I missed completely. My
actual break with the party was in 1942 or 1943. We can better date
that exactly by finding out when the Song of Russia was being written.
It was being written for a long time.
Since then I have devoted every moment that I could to fight the
party. I have maintained this position, however — I want that clear,
because I have heard the things that have been said about me. The
party presses call me a renegade, a Trotskyite, informer, a traitor,
right down the filthy vocabulary of the party. I am not a reactionary,
I am not a Fascist, I am not a Communist. I am a liberal, middle-of-
the-roader who says that the liberal movement in this country was
destroyed by the Communists, that the Communists themselves* have
forced the liberal either to quit the liberal movement, to move over
to the right or be destroyed by the left. There is no choice left be-
cause of the Communist Party.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1609
Today the liberal movement is growing, you gentlemen in Congress
know it, you feel its effect, and that's where I belong, and that's where
I have been for approximately 8 years, and that's where I am going
to stay. I belong to the All-Guild Committee, I have helped clean
the Reds out of the guild. In addition, I discovered that there is
the other side of the coin. Where in the past I raised money and gave
funds to the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee, which was to
help the victims of Nazi persecution, I found a few years ago that
some very intelligent men in this country had formed an organization:
known as the International Relief and Rescue Committee, and I have
been a constant contributor to that ever since I learned of it. That
today a national campaign is going on under the guidance of Carl
Spaatz, for the iron curtain refugee work. And this money is being
used to rescue the victims of the Red terror.
There are other movements under way to help
Mr. Tavenner. Due to the necessity of adjourning, I suggest that
you reserve that until the afternoon session.
Mr. Wood. The committee will stand in recess for 1 hour and 20
minutes.
(Whereupon a recess was taken at 12: 55 p. m. until 2: 15 p. m. of
the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
(At the hour of 2 : 20 p. m. of the same day, the proceedings were
resumed, the same parties being present.)
Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order.
Mr. Counsel, are you ready to proceed further?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
TESTIMONY OF MARTIN BERKELEY, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, EDWARD BENNETT WILLIAMS— Resumed
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Berkeley, you were telling us at the end of the
morning session about the manner in which you withdrew from the
Communist Party and I believe at the time of closing you were tell-
ing us of your activity against the Communist Party after you had
withdrawn.
Mr. Berkeley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed, please, with a statement of such
information as you desire to give regarding your activity against
the Communist Party after leaving it ?
Mr. Berkeley. As I said earlier, from the inception of the All-
Guild Committee of the Screen Writers' Guild, I was a member of
that committee, I solicited funds and membership at the studio, at
Fox where I was then employed, and have continued to do so. I
have devoted a great deal of time to the work of the International
Rescue and Relief Commission to aid the victims of the Red terror
and of the iron curtain campaign fund under the auspices of Carl
Spaatz. Already a group of us have been talking about organizing
a large dinner in California of the talent groups to raise a consider-
able sum of money for General Spaatz' worthy fund. We hope that
within the next 2 months we can have a real announcement that
Hollywood has raised for the victims of the Red terror just as in
1610 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
the past it raised money for the victims of Nazi terror, a huge fund
to help these people who have lost their homes and their liberties as
a result of the Reds.
I think, sir, that about sums up my active organizational work.
I have a letter with me, I doubt whether anything will be gained
hy reading it, from Allen Rivkin, the head of the Motion Picture
Industry Council and the head of the All-Guild Committee, attesting
to my work with the All-Guild Committee since its inception. But
I see no necessity at this time to read the letter. I think the matter
is generally understood by the committee.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you any further statement that you desire
to make at this time to the committee relating to the activities of the
Communist Party in Hollywood?
Mr. Berkeley. I think through the efforts of this committee that
the works of the Communists have been smashed, in a sense. The
party is underground today. I think it is extremely optimistic to
say that 25 or 50 active Communists are left in this town. I think
there are many, many more and I think that the statements of wit-
nesses who have come before this committee and who have taken
refuge behind the fifth amendment are indicative of the fact that
there are still many active functioning Communists here, because a
man whose skirts are clean will help his country. I am particularly
pleased with the attitude of Warner Bros, yesterday in the case of
Leo Townsend when they found out that he had received a subpena
from this committee and they found out that he would cooperate and
help his country, their attitude in saying "Your job is not in jeopardy ;
you are an honest man." I think it is indicative of another feeling.
Mr. Lippert, of Exclusive Pictures, of London, engaged me some weeks
ago to write a picture. This nonsense that appearing before this com-
mittee means that there are reprisals from the industry is not true,
and I don't believe it is true. We have two specific cases of two
witnesses here yesterday and today, and as men come forward and
tell the truth and cooperate they will find that the industry will
cooperate with them to the same degree it did in the past.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter?
Mr. Walter. Mr. Berkeley, you testified that there were Commu-
nists at large, and that classification was created for two purposes:
(1) To protect these alleged responsible, influential people and (2)
to protect the party. That leads me to conclude that people who
set up that classification realize that they were engaged in illegal work
or something subversive. Is that not the fact ?
Mr. Berkeley. I think so. I agree with your conclusion, sir.
Mr. Walter. I think that is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ?
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Berkeley, I think some clarification is needed —
at least, I am not quite clear on the matter — of your telegram, the
telegram to Mr. Collins. I assume in light of what you said at the
opening part of your statement that you considered that to be a mis-
take and that, having to do it over again, you would not send such
a telegram?
Mr. Berkeley. That is quite correct.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1611
Mr. Jackson. Did Mr. Collins, to the best of your knowledge, in
any way state anything other than the truth in his testimony before
the committee?
Mr. Berkeley. I have not read all of Mr. Collins' testimony.
Mr. Jackson. But to the best of your knowledge his testimony was
correct ?
Mr. Berkeley. Quite so.
Mr. Jackson. I believe you mentioned during the course of your
testimony the altruistic — and I quote this — "altruistic purposes of
the Communist Party" as being the reason why some people were led
into the party. In light of your subsequent experience and observa-
tion in the party, do you believe that there are any altruistic pur-
poses, except as they may be momentarily expedient in making an
appeal to minority groups, and things of that kind ?
Mr. Berkeley. You are quite right, Mr. Jackson. One of the sim-
plest ways of gaining a mass membership either in the party or in
front organizations is bj^ appealing to the better instincts of men, and
the face of the party, in many respects, is a very kind face. We know,
actually, what the face of the party is, but it takes a long time to see it.
Mr. Jackson. Did any except the members of the Communist Party
during the time of your membership have any knowledge of the ex-
tent to which the Communist infiltration had succeeded in Hollywood?
Was it generally known throughout the country and throughout Los
Angeles, the nature and true extent of this infiltration?
Mr. Berkeley. I don't think so. I don't think that was ever made
clear until this committee really started to function and get to the
root of it.
Mr. Jackson. What organization is today carrying the burden of
the Communist propaganda and continued Communist activities in
the Los Angeles area ?
Would you care to express an opinion on that ?
Mr. Berkeley. Well, I think the — I don't know the exact title of
it — it is the Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Group, so-called. I
think they are the face of the Communist Party in this community
today.
Mr. Jackson. Is that the Southern California Council of Arts,
Sciences, and Professions?
Mr. Berkeley. That's it.
Mr. Jackson. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter ?
Mr. Potter. Mr. Berkeley, when Sterling Hayden appeared before
our committee during the hearings in Washington he made reference
to passive membership. He stated at one time he was asked to become
a passive member where he wouldn't have to attend meetings. I am
wondering if the passive membership could be the same as the mem-
bership at large which you spoke about in your testimony.
Mr. Berkeley. I have never heard the phrase "passive member-
ship," but it sounds like it might be the same thing.
Mr. Potter. While you were in New York and before you came to
Hollywood, were you connected in any way with the Group Theatre ?
Mr. Berkeley. No, sir; except I saw their shows. But I had no
connection with it.
1612 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Potter. From the experience you have had in the past with
the party are you convinced that a member of the Communist Party
today is dedicated to defend the Soviet Union over and above their
citizenship responsibility to defending the United States of America ?
Mr. Berkeley. Mr. Potter, I believe that anyone who was then a
member of the party or joined the party since 1945 and who retains
his membership today is a traitor.
Mr. Potter. That's all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Berkeley, on behalf of the committee we desire first
to express the concern and regret that we feel in that your action in
coming before this committee has occasioned you some annoyance as
expressed in the beginning of your testimony. It might be called to
your attention, however, that you are not the only person engaged
in an effort to resist the spread of this instrumentality of aggression
and totalitarianism in our midst that has been similarly threatened.
Those of us who have been engaged openly in this work for quite a
long while have gotten to the stage where we no longer pay any atten-
tion to them. My observation has been that they haven't got the
courage to commit an act of violence on anybody, that their work is
by stealth and intimidation. It takes, however, a good deal of courage
for a man who has once been identified with an organization of this
sort, even though he has made a clean break and evidenced a desire
and the zeal to combat the menace, to come out in the open and give
testimony.
For your cooperation in doing that the committee expresses to you
not only our very deep and sincere appreciation, but the gratitude
of every liberty-loving American citizen. Thank you.
Mr. Berkeley. Thank you very much, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to advise the committee
that we would like to have this witness remain here as I would like
for him to appear before the committee in closed session on several
matters.
Mr. Wood. I have an idea the witness is rather tired in that he has
been on the stand quite a long time. Could we excuse him at 2 : 30 for
a couple of hours ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wood. Will you be back with us 2 hours from now, sir ?
Mr. Berkeley. I will stay here and await your pleasure.
Mr. Wood. Very well, until that time the witness is excused.
Who do you have next, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Philip Stevenson.
Mr. Wood. Are you Mr. Stevenson ?
Mr. Stevenson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn ? Do you
solemnly swear that the evidence you are about to give this subcom-
mittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?
Mr. Stevenson. I do.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Stevenson, are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Stevenson. Yes; I am.
Mr. Wood. For the purpose of the record, will counsel be identified?
Mr. Kenny. Robert Kenny and Ben Margolis, of Los Angeles.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1613
TESTIMONY OF PHILIP EDWARD STEVENSON, ACCOMPANIED BY
HIS COUNSEL, ROBERT KENNY AND BEN MARGOLIS
Mr. Wood. You are advised, sir, that you have the right to confer
with your counsel, either or both of them, at any time you desire in
connection with your interrogation while you are before this com-
mittee. It has long been the policy of this committee not only to
permit but to encourage every witness who comes before it that desires
to do so to have present the counsel of his own choice and make avail-
able to the witness the advice and counsel of such attorneys that he
may select. Your attorneys have been before the committee previ-
ously and it isn't necessary to advise them as to their rights and
privileges here.
Mr. Stevenson. Mr. Chairman, I, too, have received a telephone
call lately which might be pertinent to consider before my testimony
begins.
I received a call from somebody the other day who said that he was
Mr. McCarthy of the Associated Press. He said that he had heard
that I had received a subpena and wanted to know if this was true.
I said I didn't know the fact had been published but it was true,
and he said did I have a statement to make. I made a very brief
offhand statement, he thanked me, asked if I was presently employed
in the motion-picture industry and I said, "No; I was not at the
moment." He thanked me again and hung up.
This matter I reported to my counsel, Mr. Kenny. Mr. Kenny said
he knew of no Mr. McCarthy on the AP, but said he would check. He
checked with the AP, found there was no such person and checked
with other newspapers and found that no newspaper employed a
person of that name.
I think the trouble with many of us who are subjected to these
hearings have been plagued with hoax telephone calls, and I thought
you would be interested in hearing this.
Mr. Wood. Very interesting.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Stevenson, what is your full name, please?
Mr. Stevenson. Philip Edward Stevenson.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ?
Mr. Stevenson. I was born in New York December 31, 1896.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession?
Mr. Stevenson. I am a black-listed screen writer.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been a screen writer?
Mr. Stevenson. I have been a screen writer only occasionally since
the spring of 1944.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational training for your
profession ?
Mr. Stevenson. I am afraid that is a long story, but I will try to
give it to you.
Mr. Tavenner. Not in every detail, but just in a general way.
Mr. Stevenson. Eight. I attended private schools in the East and
an eastern university, and if I am reluctant to name these institutions
it is because no names, either of persons or institutions, come off very
well from being heard in one of these hearings and, particularly in the
case of these two, their emblematic color was red in each instance,
which seems to compound the difficulty.
1614 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. May I ask you if that fact had anything to do with
your deciding to go to those two schools ?
Mr. Stevenson. It had nothing to do with it. It had none whatever.
Mr. Wood. At this point, I neglected to do so at the beginning of
the testimony, I would like the record to show that of the subcommittee
there are present Messrs. Walter, Jackson, Potter, and Wood, a
quorum.
Mr. Stevenson. The school was the Pomphret School in Connecti-
cut, and the university was Harvard University in Massachusetts. I
did not finish my 4 years at Harvard because World War I was de-
clared, and on the day of the declaration of war I left college with
the intention of joining a service. I had had poliomj^elitis, and my
right leg was somewhat affected, so I doubted that I could get into the
Army where hiking was a major part of the routine, but after 3 weeks
I joined the Navy and was accepted for immediate duty on board ship.
We sailed for overseas within a couple of months — less than 2 months —
and I served overseas until September of 1919. I should say that in
the spring of 1918, or late spring, I went before a medical commission,
a medical board in preparation for taking examinations for a com-
mission, and at that time it was discovered that I was suffering from
a slight case of pulmonary tuberculosis. As a result, although I took
the examinations for the commission and passed them, I was not com-
missioned. However, I was observed for a week at a naval hospital,
and at the end of that time I was returned to my ship. I asked the
head of the medical board if I was not going to be sent back, and he
said, "No, he was under instruction to return me to my ship." I said,
"It seems strange"
Mr. Wood. Is all this conversation material to the question asked?
Mr. Tavenner. I understood the witness to say he was only going
to give a brief statement, but I will have to ask him to confine —
Mr. Wood. Giving conversation between he and his physician dur-
ing the first World War would be immaterial to the issues here.
Mr. Tavenner. I asked the witness to briefly state what his educa-
tional training was for the profession in which he was now engaged.
Mr. Stevenson. This was rather intensive education, sir, in the
question of war, for example. I was not invalided out of the service.
I served overseas for another year and a half after that, and 4 days
after my discharge the disease was pronounced active and I had to
go to a sanatorium. For the next 12 to 14 years I spent a good deal
of my time in bed, and here was where my real education began. I
did a great deal of reading, and I began to do some writing. The two
areas in which, I suppose, I did the most research was in the ques-
tion of the cause and prevention of war, and the other was in the
beginnings of our Republic, the United States. I went very thorough-
ly into the period of the founding fathers, and I must beg your in-
dulgence if, in the course of this inquiry, I refer to them frequently,
because they have had a greater influence upon me than any group of
men who ever lived.
Mr. Tavenner. I understood you to say that you began the prac-
tice of your profession in 1944.
Mr. Stevenson. As a screen writer in 1944.
Mr. Tavenner. As a screen writer.
Mr. Stevenson. In 1944. I began to write, I believe, in 1920 while
I was in bed.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1615
Mr. Tavenner. How lone: have yon lived in California?
Mr. Stevenson. Since that time; since the spring: of 1944.
Mr. Tavenner. What major credits have you received in the field
of screen writing?
Mr. Stevenson. The only credit I have received was on my first
picture, which was the Ernie Pyle story of GI Joe which, I think by
common consent of the GI's, was perhaps the best picture done on
World War II and it was an extremely lucky first break.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Stevenson, this committee is now engaged in an
investigation and study of the extent of Communist infiltration into
the moving-picture industry. If you have been in a position, since
1944, in the practice of your profession, to see or to know anything
regarding the extent of Communist infiltration, I would like to call
upon you to cooperate with this committee in giving it such informa-
tion as you have.
Mr. Stevenson. Yes, sir. I am going to claim my privileges under
the first and fifth amendments of the Constitution in connection with
such questions, and I hope I may observe that repeatedly the attempt
has been made here to say that men are hiding behind these valuable
protections to the individual.
I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not hiding behind any-
thing ; that the Bill of Rights was designed, according to my research,
to protect the individual from heresy hunting in the Government.
(At this time Representative Clyde Doyle entered the hearing,
room.)
Mr. Wood. Mr. Stevenson, please give the committee credit for
understanding the Bill of Rights without going into a lecture. What
is your answer, that you decline to answer anything with reference to
any connection with communism? Is that what you mean?
Mr. Stevenson. That is correct, sir; but I do think people are under
a misapprehension concerning this, and I would like a chance to make
people
Mr. Wood. I think this is a question of their own apprehensions and
the inferences that may be legitimately drawn from a man who re-
fuses to answer the questions on whether or not he has Communist
connections on the grounds of self-incrimination. I don't think the
committee needs any lecture about that.
Any further questions, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Stevenson, this committee has heard some evi-
dence through Mr. Collins regarding the activity of the Communist
Party in the extension of the existence of the Hollywood Writers'
Mobilization for the purpose of using it as a tool for propaganda pur-
poses. Were you at any time a member of the Hollywood Writers'
Mobilization, and will you tell the committee what you know about
Communist influence within that organization ?
Mr. Stevenson. Again, sir, I want to express it is a feeling of duty
on my part to use the Bill of Rights and the purpose for which it was
intended, and I do decline because I must decline to answer that
question on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Wood. Let it be distinctly understood now and hereafter, so
long as you are on the witness stand before this committee, that there
isn't any compulsion on you to decline to answer any question by this
committee or otherwise, unless it is compulsion of your own conscience.'
1616 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Stevenson. It is a compulsion of my own conscience, sir, and
conscience is the sovereign of the mind, in my opinion.
Mr. Wood. Then under the prompting of your conscience, what is
your answer to the question ? Do j^ou answer it or not ?
Mr. Stevenson. I decline to answer the question, sir.
Mr. Wood. All right. Well, the answer that you "must decline to
answer it" is an improper answer to this committee, because that indi-
cates that we are putting you under some compulsion about it when
we aren't doing anything.
Mr. Stevenson. I am under compulsion, according to my ideas and
Mr. Jefferson's ideas, of what an American citizen should do.
Mr. Wood. We are not concerned about your ideas. We are con-
cerned about your actions, whether you answer the question or not.
Mr. Stevenson. Is that a question, sir ?
Mr. Wood. I say that is our concern, whether you answer the ques-
tion or not. I understood you declined to answer; is that right?
Mr. Stevenson. That's correct.
Mr. Wood. For reasons that you have stated?
Mr. Stevenson. That's right.
Mr. Wood. Proceed, Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Sam Moore also appeared as a witness before
this committee, and he refused to testify regarding his position on the
radio committee of the Hollywood Writers' Mobilization. Did you
attend a meeting of that group, the radio committee of the Hollywood
Writers' Mobilization, which discussed the plans of that body?
Mr. Stevenson. Again I think I shall decline to answer on the
grounds of possible self-incrimination.
Mr. Wood. You say you think you will. Do you ?
Mr. Stevenson. I do.
Mr. Wood. All right. Let the record show that Mr. Doyle is now
present.
Mr. Tavenner. Do jou recall the existence of a plan designed to
place before the public information relating to the atomic bomb in
such a manner as to use it for propaganda purposes ?
Mr. Stevenson. Excuse me, sir. I may have missed the beginning
of that question. About what organization or group, are you talking?
Mr. Tavenner. I am not certain whether I stated that. Will you
read the question back ?
(The question was read by the reporter, as follows :)
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the existence of a plan designed to place before
the public information relating to the atomic bomb in such a manner as to use
it for propaganda purposes?
Mr. Tavenner. I am referring to a plan that was put into effect,
or allegedly so, by the Hollywood Writers' Mobilization.
Mr. Stevenson. Well, again I decline to answer on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. The name of Nora Hallgren, secretary to a person
known as J. Peters, has come before the committee frequently. Can
you give the committee any information relating to Nora Hellgren or
any of her activities in Hollywood ?
Mr. Stevenson. Well, as to the names of persons alleged to have
undertaken subversive activities before this committee is concerned,
I shall again decline to answer the questions on the grounds of possible
self-incrimination.
COMMUNISM EST MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1617
Mr. Tavenner. Do you refuse to answer the question which I asked
you?
Mr. Stevenson. I said I did, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Nora Hallgren?
Mr. Stevenson. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been a member of the execu-
tive board of the League of American Writers ?
Mr. Stevenson. I believe that is another such organization, and
I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask you if you participated in a
meeting of an organization generally referred to as the thought-
control conference. It was a conference which was held on July 7,
1947, and was sponsored by the Hollywood Arts, Sciences, and Pro-
fessions Council of the Progressive Citizens of America.
Mr. Stevenson. Is that a question %
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask you whether or not you par-
ticipated in that convention which called for the ending of the loyalty
directive of President Truman and demanding that the House Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities be done away with as having no
constitutional basis, and also as to whether or not there was a resolu-
tion adopted at this conference calling for the freeing of Gerhart
Eisler, Carl Marzani, and the 16 defendants connected with the Joint
Anti-Fascist Committee.
Mr. Stevenson. That is a whole omnibus question.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like for you to tell us what you know about
that convention, if you participated in it.
Mr. Stevenson. There is an ironic signficance, it seems to me, in
the fact that a conference on thought control should be declared sub-
versive because of the organization sponsoring it. But since before
this committee there is such evidence
Mr. Tavenner. We should like very much-
Mr. Stevenson. I shall decline to answer the question on the
grounds of self-incrimination, possibly.
Mr. Tavenner. We would like very much for you to explain your
connection with it, explain the purposes of the thought-control con-
ference, which you seem to think to be a queer result from having
been sponsored by some other organization, the idea being that this
committee may learn its true purposes and its true activities.
Mr. Stevenson. I am sorry, Mr. Prosecutor, I must decline to-
answer on the previously stated grounds. I made a slip of the tongue.
I see some of the committee members, and I couldn't help it, I feel
like a prisoner on the dock here, and I feel as though there were six
prosecutors confronting me. I have heard all morning talk about
hanging people, and this is not a very happy atmosphere in which
to appear.
Mr. Tavenner. I am not offended by being referred to as a prose-
cutor. I feel at times it is a very important service, though that is
not the purpose of this proceeding.
Mr. Stevenson. That's why I apologize.
Mr. Tavenner. Information has come to the attention of the com-
mittee, Mr. Stevenson, that in 1945 you were assigned to group 11,
which is otherwise known as the Sunset cultural group of the Com-
1618 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
munist Party, and attached to the fifty-ninth assembly district of
the Communist Political Association group. I inadvertently said
Communist Party, but I meant to say Communist Political Associa-
tion. Were you a member of that association?
Mr. Stevenson. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Was 1944 Communist Political Association card
No. 41784 given to you ?
Mr. Stevenson. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. According to the Daily Worker of April 5, 1941,
you were listed as one of the initial signers of a call to the Fourth Con-
gress of the League of American Writers. If that be true, will you
state the circumstances under which you united in that enterprise ?
Mr. Stevenson. My declination is the same, sir, on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information that
you at one time or another became active or at least became affiliated
with organizations which have been designated by the Attorney Gen-
eral of the United States as Communist-front organizations. Now,
that does not mean that everyone connected with those organizations
were members of the Communist Party. But if you were a member
of any of them we would like to know that fact, and we would like
for you to explain to the committee the circumstances under which
your membership was obtained in those organizations, and what in-
fluences, if any, were exerted by the Communist Party on them.
Mr. Stevenson. Is that the question, sir ?
Mr. Tavenner. I made that statement as a preliminary statement
to the questions that I would like to ask you. I show you a photostatic
copy of pages 20 to 21 of the June 1943 issue of Soviet Russia Today.
These pages contain an open letter to the American people wherein
the National Council of American-Soviet Friendship calls on all
Americans concerned with preserving United Nations unity to fight
the menacing campaign against our Soviet ally. Among the names
appearing as signers to this letter are Philip and Janet Stevenson.
Will you examine the article referred to and state whether or not you
were a signer of that letter sponsored by the National Council of
American-Soviet Friendship ?
Mr. Stevenson. Well, I shall decline to answer that question, sir, on
the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. The summer of 1938 issue of the League Bulletin —
by League, I am referring to the League of American Writers — lists
Philip Stevenson as secretary of the league. Were you secretary of
the League of American Writers?
Mr. Stevenson. Same answer, sir, on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time an instructor in the Workers'
School of the League of American Writers, and if so I would like to
know the circumstances under which your services were acquired
for that purpose?
Mr. Stevenson. I must decline that question on the same grounds,
sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I show you a photostatic copy of a press release
of the National Federation for Constitutional Liberties. This release
was an open letter to the President of the United States and the Con-
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1619
gress, declaring defeat of Japan and her Axis partners will require
that complete unity of our people, which today is a reality, and states
a position opposing was referred to as antilabor legislation as a dire
threat to this essential unity. Among those listed as signing this
appeal, or this press release of the National Federation for Constitu-
tional Liberties, is the name of Philip Stevenson.
So I would like to ask you the extent of your affiliation with that
organization, tne National Federation for Constitutional Liberties.
Mr. Stevenson. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. It is true, is it not, that this organization, the Na-
tional Federation for Constitutional Liberties, merged with the Inter-
national Labor Defense to form what we now know as Civil Rights
Congress ?
Mr. Stevenson. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Do I understand from your testimony that youi
decline to answer any question that I might ask you regarding your
knowledge of the operation of Communist fronts in this area, in
Hollywood ?
Mr. Stevenson. I am not sure I understand the question. I would
like to confer with counsel.
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Mr. Stevenson. If you would like to specify the fronts, sir, I would
be glad to answer as to each one you name.
Mr. Tavenner. I am not certain I heard you.
Mr. Stevenson. I said (conferring with counsel) on each specific
question, sir, I will either answer or decline to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. This committee has received testimony through
Mr. Collins and others, I believe Mr. Dmytryk, also, of the important
part that the — I would say principally from the testimony of Mr.
Dmytryk, of the important part that the Communist-front organiza-
tions played in the plan of the Communist Party to organize the mov-
ing-picture industry. A man of your intelligence and experience, I
am certain, would have valuable experience for this committee on that
matter, and I honestly request that you give the committee the benefit
of such information that you have on that subject.
Mr. Stevenson. Is that a question regarding some specific organiza-
tion?
Mr. Tavenner. The plan of the Communist Party, the method by
which it proposed to use Communist-front organizations in the organ-
ization of the Communist Party in the moving-picture industry.
Mr. Stevenson. For example, what organization?
Mr. Tavenner. I think my question was plain.
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Did you fail to understand it ?
Mr. Stevenson. Yes ; I failed.
Mr. Tavenner. I will repeat it. Mr. Dmytryk testified at con-
siderable length as to the plan of the Communist Party to use Com-
munist-front organizations in its policy of organizing the Communist
Party in the moving-picture industry. Now I am asking you, if you
have any information on that subject, to give the committee the benefit
of it.
1620 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Stevenson. Yes; I understand the question; and I decline to
answer it, sir, on previously stated grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of Actors' Laboratory?
Mr. Stevenson. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Committee of One
Thousand?
Mr. Stevenson (conferring with counsel). Same answer, sir, on
the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you associated or affiliated in any way with
Frontier Films ?
Mr. Stevenson (conferring with counsel). I decline to answer, sir,
on the previously stated grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Stevenson. I wonder if I might be allowed to offer a statement.
I would like to ask permission to read it, if I may, in view of the fact
that other witnesses have read at great length from statements in this
room as late as this morning.
Mr. Wood. The statement will be accepted as part of the record.
Mr. Stevenson. I asked for a ruling of the Chair, sir, whether I
would be allowed to read the statement in view of the fact that pre-
pared statements were read in this committee room as late as this
morning.
Mr. Wood. Prepared statements have never been permitted to be
read except in answer to questions where the witness is answering the
questions. This committee has never received a prepared statement
from a witness who declines to answer questions that are asked of him,
because there isn't any purpose that can be served by it. It is a well-
known rule of law, as your counsel will tell you, in procedure and
evidence, that an answer of a witness may always be explained after
he has answered.
Mr. Stevenson. My understanding of the functioning of congres-
sional committees in general is that generally preparatory statements
are read previous to the testimony of a witness. It seems to me that I
have read that many times.
Mr. Wood. That is not the rule of this committee, as your counsel
well knows, and has never been.
Any further questions, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. I will yield to Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. Did you prepare this statement?
Mr. Stevenson. I did.
Mr. Walter. The reason why I ask is that that is on exactly the
same kind of stationery as all the other statements and apparently
written on the same typewriter. I notice the same characteristics of
type.
Mr. Stevenson. It was probably copied by the same typewriter,
sir, but I prepared the statement myself.
Mr. Walter. That is all.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle.
Mr Doyle. I think I have no questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Jackson Mr. Stevenson, are you presently a member of the
Screen Writers' Guild ?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1621
Mr Stevenson. I frankly — the Screen Writers' Guild has been on
two sides of the fence in these hearings. I have heard- testimony to
the effect that it was a Communist-dominated organization and I have
heard testimony to the effect that it was free of this
Mr. Jackson. Well, irrespective of what you may have heard, the
Screen Writers' Guild has never been cited by any agency of the Gov-
ernment as a subversive organization.
Mr. Stevenson. I am.
Mr. Jackson. You are a member ?
Mr. Stevenson. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. Have you been a regular attendant at meetings of the
Screen Writers' Guild?
Mr. Stevenson. Reasonably, I think.
Mr. Jackson. Recently.
Mr. Stevenson. I think I attended the last meeting, but it was a
long time ago.
Mr. Jackson. Under the system of proxies exercised in the Screen
Writers' Guild, who holds your proxy ?
Mr. Stevenson. Nobody holds my proxy.
Mr. Jackson. You have no proxy out ?
Mr. Stevenson. But I do know that there is a very small group
that controls the Screen Writers' Guild by the use of proxies in the
pockets of two or three individuals, as a rule; sometimes as many as
a hundred or more.
Mr. Jackson. Well, the testimony in the record also indicates that
a few years ago the shoe was on the other foot, that it was in a large
part, controlled by, shall we say, those on the other side of the fence.
Mr. Stevenson. The proxy techniques are a very recent origin, in
the last 2 years, I would say.
Mr. Jackson. And in light of the developments, I think a very
worth while contribution. During the course of your opening state-
ment you stressed your military service. Was that for the purpose of
affirming your loyalty and your devotion to the American system
and American
Mr. Stevenson. It was part of my education, sir. If you will re-
member, it was in answer to that part of the question. That is where
I learned a great deal about America, about war and peace, about my
feelings toward both.
Mr. Jackson. Well, if it was intended — I don't say that it was
intended, but if it was to demonstrate loyalty because of your service
to this country in the Armed Forces, it might be pointed out that
Benedict Arnold, among others, was a distinguished American soldier
before he went down the river and joined the British forces.
Mr. Stevenson. I resent that implication, sir.
Mr. Jackson. There is no implication contained in it so far as you
are concerned, except to state an historical fact. You have pointed
out a number of historical facts. I feel free to state one, myself. I
have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter.
Mr. Potter. I have no questions to ask the military man.
Mr. Wood. Any further questions by counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. Any reason why this witness shouldn't be excused?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
1622 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Wood. So ordered.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dan James.
Mr. Wood. Are you Mr. Dan James ?
Mr. James. I am.
Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn. Do you
solemnly swear the evidence you give the subcommittee shall be the
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. James. I do.
Mr. Wood. Have a seat, Mr. James. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. James. I am, sir.
Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record.
Mr. Wirin. My name is still A. L. Wirin, W-i-r-i-n, Los Angeles.
Mr. Wood. Mr. James, following the uniform custom of this com-
mittee in all of its investigations of permitting any witness who
appears before it to have benefit of such counsel of your own choice
as you desire, you are instructed that you have the privilege of con-
ferring with your counsel. Your counsel has appeared here before
and is conscious of his rights and privileges.
Mr. Wirin. I am thoroughly familiar with your rules and I shall
comply with them. Do you want — these may interfere with you.
Mr. Wood. If the witness prefers, I will ask the photographers to
finish before the witness starts. If he doesn't object, I will permit
them to take pictures as they choose.
Mr. Wirin. He has no objection, but to help Mr. Tavenner 's ques-
tioning I thought it would get them out of the way and then we can
go on uninterrupted.
Mr. Wood. Unless the witness objects, I am not going to limit the
photographers during the progress of testimony, unless counsel ob-
jects.
Mr. Wirin. Counsel never objects.
Mr. Wood. That is good. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
TESTIMONY OF DANIEL LEWIS JAMES, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, A. L. WIKIN
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, Mr. James.
Mr. James. Daniel Lewis James.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born '(
Mr. James. In Kansas City, Mo., January 14, 1911.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ?
Mr. James. I am a free-lance writer.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your training for your occupation %
Mr. James. I attended a private school in Kansas City. I went on
to Andover Academy for a year and graduated from Yale University.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, what was the year of your graduation ?
Mr. James. 1933.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your record of employment ?
Mr. James. I started out rather slowly as a writer, sir. My first
couple of years after getting out of college, I was a traveling sales-
man, which I hope isn't too incriminating. I was a clerk. I began
writing in 1935, or 1936. The first few years were extremely difficult,
learning my craft and so forth. In 1938 I came here to Hollywood,
was employed in an independent studio as a sort of junior writer-
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1623
assistant to a producer. After that I wrote a play called Winter
Soldiers, which was produced in New York City in the fall of 1942.
This was then sold to Edward Small. I did a screen play on it but
the movie was — the screen play script was shelved. I then engaged
with my wife in working on her original story of what turned out to
be a musical comedy, Bloomer Girl. Since that period my fortunes
have been rather bad. I have written a novel, which was not published,
a couple of plays, numerous short stories, and so forth.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. James, in the course of the testimony today you
have been identified by a witness who appeared here, Mr. Martin
Berkeley, as having been a member of the Communist Party. There
has been no testimony offered here that you are now a member of the
Communist Party. If it is true that you were a member of the Com-
munist Party you would be in a position to assist this committee in the
investigation it is now conducting, so my first question is, have you at
any time been a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. James. I would like to answer that by saying that I am not a
member of the Communist Party. However, as to the second part of
your question I will stand on the fifth amendment and refuse to answer
this question because I feel it could incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, actually, I asked you only one question,
whether you had ever been a member. You state you are not now a
member ?
Mr. James. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you withdraw from the Communist
Party?
Mr. James. I would have to decline, sir, on the same ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party in
1947 during the conduct of the hearings before this committee?
Mr. James. I will have to decline again, sir, on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. After those hearings were completed were you a
member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. James. I will have to decline, sir.
Mr. Wood. Mr. James, bear in mind that so far as this committee is
concerned you are not under any compulsion to decline.
Mr. James. Yes. Did I say "must" ?
Mr. Wood. You said you must.
Mr. James. Sorry.
Mr. Wood. You have to. The question is, do you decline for reasons
stated?
Mr. James. Yes ; I do decline.
Mr. Wood. The reporter can't get j^our nod in the record.
Mr. James. I see. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What is the ground upon which you refuse to
answer the question as to whether or not you have been a member of
the Communist Party at any time?
Mr. James. The ground, sir, is that an American citizen, as I
understand it, under the fifth amendment to the Constitution, is not
compelled to testify against himself in such a way as to be incrim-
inated, prosecuted in a Federal court — something. I am not a law-
yer, sir. I think that should be sufficient.
Mr. Tavenner. As I stated a few moments ago to another witness,
Mr. Dmytryk testified at length in the hearings conducted in Wash-
81595— 51— pt. 4 15
1624 COMMUNISM IN MOTION- PICTURE INDUSTRY
ington regarding the part that Communist-front organizations played
in promoting the principles and the purposes of the Communist Party,
particularly with regard to the matter of recruitment into the Com-
munist Party. Of course, as the term indicates, all persons who
are members of front organizations are not members of the Commu-
nist Party, otherwise they would be adjuncts in the Communist
Party. Now, I would like to know if you were a member of any
organization which has been cited as a Communist-front organiza-
tion, and if you were, whether or not you would give this commit-
tee the benefit of such information as you have as to how you were
recruited into the party, the purposes for which you were recruited
into the party, and — into the front organization, and how that or-
ganization functioned.
Mr. James. Sir, to the best of my knowledge, I am not a member
of any Communist-front organization, nor am I sympathetic to com-
munism. At the same time, I must decline to answer this question
that you have put to me on the grounds stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, that is a rather strange answer. If the
ground for your refusal to testify is that you fear incrimination and,
at the same time, you state that you are not a member of the Com-
munist Party, how can your testimony on that subject tend to in-
criminate you ?
Mr. James. I don't believe I am forced to specify the area in which
I feel an answer could incriminate me, sir. I understand it is my
right, if it is my honest and sincere feeling that it would incriminate
me — it is my right to decline to answer the question.
Mr. Wood. Pardon the suggestion. As I understood the witness,
his answer was not responsive to the question. The question was
asked him, as I understood, whether or not he had ever been a mem-
ber of any front organization so designated. His answe'r was that
he is not now a member of any such organization, that he knows of,
which is not entirely responsive.
Mr. James. That was part of my answer, sir. I followed that by
declining to answer Mr. Tavenner's question.
Mr. Wood. Aside from that answer, you decline to answer the ques-
tion entirely except to that extent that you are not now a member?
Mr. James. Yes.
Mr. Wood. That is the way I understood it.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter?
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. You, Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. Mr. James, I think just an instant ago in answer to
counsel's question about three questions back — I wrote down here that
you said, "I am not in sympathy with communism." Didn't you so
state?
Mr. James. I did, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, have you ever been in sympathy with com-
munism ?
Mr. James. I would have to decline to answer that on the previous
grounds stated.
Mr. Doyle. What do you mean by previous grounds stated?
Mr. James. My rights under the fifth amendment not to answer
a question which I feel should incriminate me — might incriminate
me.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION- PICTURE INDUSTRY 1625
Mr. Doyle. That what?
Mr. James. Not to give an answer which might incriminate me.
Mr. Doyle. Yes; but that only applies to a criminal prosecution,
doesn't it, or a criminal case?
Mr. James. I think it applies, also, sir, to proceedings before this
committee. I have been here for some 3 days
Mr. Doyle. I have noticed you here every day. That led me to
ask you this question : If you are not now a member of the Com-
munist Party and not in sympathy with the purpose of communism,
why, all this morning and every time that Mr. Berkeley mentioned
the name of a Communist, did you make a note of it in the room?
I saw you doing so, didn.'t I ?
Mr. James. Yes ; I have that list in my pocket right now.
Mr. Doyle. Why did you make that list?
Mr. James. The reason I made that list, sir, was because I wanted
to think of the number of people who were going to be touched by
Mr. Berkeley's testimony, a number of people who would suffer from
Mr. Berkeley's testimony.
Mr. Doyle. Did you go out and telephone any of them ?
Mr. James. I did not.
Mr. Doyle. Did you telephone anyone else in connection with them ?
Mr. James. No, sir. I telephoned to my lawyer to be sure he would
be here at my side this afternoon, although
Mr. Wirin. Apparently
Mr. Doyle. We are always glad to have counsel present.
Mr. Wirin. Apparently he didn't need any help.
Mr. Doyle. I realize he has good legal advice.
Mr. Wirin. I am glad to be here.
Mr. Doyle. But I couldn't help but notice, Mr. James, that you
were doing that and I — in view of your answer that you are not now
a Communist, do you want me to understand that you may have been
one yesterday ?
Mr. James. Sir, I am sorry you have raised this question, but
I shall have to decline to answer this on previous grounds — previously
stated grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Well, you and your wife have been here ever since the
hearings have opened. You are both young people, I notice. I am
glad you are, because you have more time to serve your country than
some of us that are older. That leads me to ask you this question :
You heard me ask yesterday and the day before, witnesses whether or
not they believed that the purpose of this committee, as assigned to
it by the United States Congress, to investigate subversive persons
and subversive programs, was an important function. I am sure you
heard that, didn't you ? You shook your head. The shorthand writer
can't take the shake of your head in his notes.
Mr. James. Yes; I did hear it, sir.
Mr. Doyle. You heard that. What is your answer to that same
question ?
Mr. James. I am not sure just what the question was, but I am
aware of the act of Congress under which this committee operates.
At the same time, I have said that I am not sympathetic to commu-
nism and I must, to be fair, say that I am not sympathetic to this in-
vestigation, not so much in terms of myself or people who come before
it as I am in terms of what it could do to contribute to a certain
1626 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
general hysteria in this country, such as our President has talked
about. 1 don't know if I am talking too much, but I am a writer, sir,
and I would hate to see any kind of censorship come out of these pro-
ceedings. I don't know whether this is at all your intention, but I
would hate to see it. I have in my pocket a little brown book. If
some of you gentlemen would like to see it, it is in French. Now, this
is one of the early editions. It is from my own library.
Mr. Doyle. May I
Mr. James. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. I realize that you have come prepared to make a speech,
if you have the opportunity, in spite of the fact that you are not in
sympathy with communism, you say, but I want to ask you again, if
you are being frank and honest with us — and I don't mean to impute
anything less than honesty and frankness to you, but if you really
are sincere, when you say you are not a Communist, why can't you
be equally as sincere instead of claiming the fifth amendment by tell-
ing us when you stopped being a Communist, if you ever were ? Is
that a fair way to put a question ?
Mr. James. Sir, yes, I am standing on what I understand is my
right under the fifth amendment. I feel that in addition — inciden-
tally, sir, this takes a considerable amount of courage, though I expect
no applause either from this committee, nor from the People's World
nor from the Daily Worker. This is a lonely, lonely position, and I as-
sure you that when I am saying that I am not a Communist, I am mean-
ing it.
Mr. Doyle. I am willing to take your word at a hundred percent
face value. You would want me to, because you are under oath.
Mr. James. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. But I still don't understand why you, claiming what
you claim, that you are not in sympathy with the purposes of com-
munism, you are unwilling to help the committee to get into the field
of discovering people and programs which are subversive.
Mr. James. Sir, I think the committee — I think it is necessary for
there to be an investigation in this country of subversive organiza-
tions. At the same time I feel that this committee in its work has
frequently in trying to root out the weeds perhaps has rooted out
same of the crop, too. Maybe the important parts of the crop.
Mr. Doyle. My closing word with you, because our time is limited,
is two things. First, you have apparently come quite a ways and
are willing to state that you are not now a Communist. That, of
course, leaves inferentially to me, I am a lawyer, and you have an able
lawyer by your side, inferentially, at least, that leaves in my mind
the question of how recently you were a Communist, without doubt-
ing your statement. Now, I am urging you and your wife, as young
people, to come into the area of actively and vigorously helping
this congressional committee investigate the field of subversive peo-
ples and programs that you have stated you felt it was necessary
to investigate. I heard you also say that maybe we are doing some
injury. I assure you we are not trying to. We are trying to avoid
that sort of thing. But I also want you to believe me when I say, and
I won't take more of your time, because my colleagues should have
time to ask questions if they want to — believe me when I say that I, as
a fellow citizen of yours in California, find it very difficult indeed, in
performing my congressional duties, and which I hope always to
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1627
do within the framework of the Constitution, to understand why
so many people who come before this committee claim the privilege
of the fifth amendment. And I recognize we have that right and
must always preserve it and protect it. I don't understand why
they claim that privilege if they are honest-to-God in their state-
ment when they say they want to weed out subversive people and
subversive programs.
Thank you very much for allowing me to speak with you.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Jackson. Mr. James, in light of your statement that you are
opposed to communism, do you consider communism to be in the
nature of a conspiracy?
Mr. James. I don't know whether it is a conspiracy or not. I
have heard charges, it has not yet so been proved to be. I can oppose
many things without considering them conspiracies, world con-
spiracies, or whatever. I think in a time of crisis like this it behooves
us all to be a little careful when we call something a conspiracy, to
slow down on the emotional word, or else we build up on our side the
same type of name-calling that we hear coming from the Russian
side in the present situation.
Mr. Jackson. That is very broad and glittering statement. How-
ever, it seems to me that the time has come to be an American or not
an American. The time has come for a lot of people
Mr. Wirin. May I interrupt?
Mr. Jackson. You may not interrupt me. I have every right to
make a statement. There have been a lot of speeches made here to-
day and I am only saying that every American should make up his
mind whether he is an American or whether he owes his allegiance
somewhere else.
Do you take exception to that ?
Mr. Wirin. This witness hasn't made any statements or speeches.
Mr. Wood. Counsel, please restrain yourself under the rules of the
committee.
Mr. Jackson. I call communism an international conspiracy and
those engaged in it to be traitors, and that is with no particular refer-
ence to this witness.
Mr. Wirin. Are you addressing me?
Air. Jackson. I am not addressing you, I am making an observa-
tion.
Mr. Wood. Applause in this room will not be tolerated, ladies and
gentlemen. I have tried to make that crystal clear at the beginning
of these hearings. I would dislike very much to have to clear the
room, but we will tolerate no further outburst from the audience.
Mr. Jackson. If during the war enemy paratroops had landed in
a field a half a mile away it would have been the duty of an American
citizen who had knowledge of the attack to report immediately the
nature and extent of the threat. Those troops, those enemies, are in
our midst today and it is my contention that it is still the duty of every
loyal and devoted American citizen to forego double-talk, be an Amer-
ican, and tell what he knows. Frankly, I deplore the fact that wit-
nesses take the position that they owe no obligation to disclose the
associations and the nature of this conspiracy, and I repeat it is a
conspiracy.
Mr. James. Sir, I feel
1628 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions.
Mr. James. Sir, I feel within myself as loyal an American citizen
as you are and as ready to come to the defense of my country. I am
sorry that we part in this other respect.
Mr. Jackson. I am sorry that we part company, too. I wish that
you would show a willingness to cooperate not only with the commit-
tee but with the Congress of the United States and the people of the
United States who look to this committee to do the job that has been
assigned to it.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter.
Mr. Potter. Mr. James, in your testimony you stated that you are
not now a member of the Communist Party and you are not in sym-
pathy with its objectives. I assume that is what you meant ?
Mr. James. That is correct. There is a technicality. I did not
say I was not now, I said I am not a member.
Mr. Potter. All right, I didn't mean to put any words in your testi-
mony. I would like to ask whether it is the policies or the aims or
objectives of the Communist Party that you are in disagreement with.
Mr. James. I am not familiar with all the policies and aims of the
Communist Party at present. I am in disagreement with the Com-
munist Party on its stand on the Korean war ; I am in disagreement
with the Communist Party on its stand on the Soviet Union and the
various countries like Czechoslovakia, Poland, and so forth.
Mr. Potter. You have been quite concerned, as you stated in your
testimony, concerning the fact that this committee might endeavor at
some time and some way to establish some type of censorship, which
I wish to assure you that it is not the intent of the committee nor is it
within the province of the committee to do so even if it should wish
to. I am just wondering how you can justify your position of not
cooperating with the committee at a time when we are drafting men
to fight people in Korea who are a part of the same Communist organi-
zation which happens to be in a different country but under the same
leadership as when out here. It is difficult to see the consistency that
you claim in your answer to the questions that you are not now a mem-
ber of the Communist Party, but you fail to aid the committee in
endeavoring to find out the actions of the party here in this country
when at the same time we are drafting men, in your own home town,
men about our age, to fight this very ideology that you are now en-
deavoring to protect.
Mr. James. Sir, if I felt that the revealing of names, and so forth,
would help this committee, I mean would help our Government in its
war in Korea, and so forth, my answer would perhaps be different.
I do not feel that to be the case.
Mr. Potter. If during World War II we had, and I assume that
we did have at that time through the German Bund here in this
country, an organization who was taking their advice and directives
from our enemy, from Germany at that time, would you have then
been reluctant to name names as you are today ?
Mr. James (conferring with counsel). I think that is a speculative
question. I would like to leave it there.
Mr. Potter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Ordinarily, Mr. James, I do not undertake to question
witnesses, certainly to any great extent, but your testimony here has
left me in a muddled position and I feel I must delve a little bit fur-
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1629
ther into a few phases of your testimony. I don't think any impar-
tial person could listen to your testimony here, and I believe you
would agree if you were here and I was there giving the same testi-
mony, that you would assume the same attitude, but that at some
time in the past, however recent it may be, you held membership in
the Communist Party. I think the last statement that you made to
the effect that if you thought it would be of benefit to the war effort
you would reveal the names, or to further illustrate the inference that
you have held membership in this organization, I would like, and
for the moment, am attaching utmost good faith to your statement
that you do not now sympathize with the aims and purposes of the
Communist Party. I must assume from that, and I think any fair-
minded person must likewise assume from it, that something has
happened since you took membership in this organization to make
its membership repugnant to you, otherwise there would have been
no necessity for you to make a break from it.
If that is true, and if you feel that continued membership in the
party renders you a less worthy citizen of America than you could be
out of it, then don't you think you owe an obligation to aid others in ,
the same category that you were once in. to take a like position about it ?
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Mr. Wirin. May I consult with him for a moment ?
Mr. Wood. You may consult with him as much as you desire, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I call attention to the fact that I
am advised from the press section that they cannot hear what is being
said. I don't know whether you can beam the amplifying system
more toward that area or not.
Mr. James. Sir, this question of yours implies something which I
have neither affirmed nor denied, as I believe my refusal was.
Mi1. Wood. That is correct, sir.
Mr. James. In general, though, I would say every man in every
crisis of his life makes up his own mind as to what he does.
Mr. Wood. One other thing you testified to that I must take excep-
tion to, and that is when you stated that you feared that the action of
this committee in seeking to root out the weeds had also accomplished
the purpose of rooting out some of the crops.
This committee isn't rooting out any crops from any source. If
any usefulness of any person whose name may be used in connection
with the activities of this committee may suffer as a consequence
thereof, the responsibility rests squarely upon that witness. I make
that statement in connection with your testimony that you took a list
of the names that were given here by previous witnesses for the pur-
pose of keeping in mind those people who were going to suffer as a
result of their activities before this committee. I point out to you
again, sir, that it has been the policy of this committee, since I have
been connected with it, and still is, that we are not only glad to give
permission but will gladly welcome the presence before this commit-
tee of any person whose name has been used by anybody in connection
with the testimony before this committee, either denying anything
that is said with reference to their actions or conduct, or to affirm it or
to explain it. That opportunity is now being afforded to you.
There can be no odium attached to any person who may' have made
a mistake and have seen that they have made a mistake and seek to
rectify it, because if there was we would give lie to the advent of Jesus
1630 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Christ in this world, who came here for the purpose of making possible
forgiveness upon repentance. I know of no better forum that could be
provided for you today to let all of the acquaintances that you have,
in the world so far as that is concerned, know if it is true that you
have completely broken from all your ties with this subversive organ-
ization, if indeed you have had such ties, which you have given every
inference that you have had. I regret very much that you haven't
seen fit to take advantage of that opportunity.
With reference to any other persons whose names have been used
that has been referred to as having been injured by the action of
this committee, if they don't come here themselves and take advantage
of this same forum to deny, affirm, or explain, then the results of the
use of their names here are squarely upon their shoulders and not upon
the shoulders of this committee, because this committee didn't re-
quire them to enter any organization that they may have entered.
They went into it without any sort of action, conduct, or encourage-
ment from this committee. So I just couldn't let go unchallenged
that accusation that you made, because it isn't supported by any fact
on this earth.
Do you desire to offer any fact as evidence of the efficacy of the state-
ment you made that people were going to be punished as a result of
the activities of this committee? Do you want to offer any justifi-
cation for such an accusation ? If so I will be glad to hear you.
Mr. James. Sir, this committee has been set up to investigate com-
munism. However, this committee should not feel that only those
people who are willing to totally cooperate with the committee are
good Americans, and that is the implication of the chairman's speech.
There are many people who have never been connected with commu-
nism at all who have for one reason or another opposed this committee.
The New Yorker magazine, not a political magazine, sir, has looked
with some fear on what this committee might be doing to the cause
of writing in this country.
Mr. Wood. In that connection I take issue with you again, and
deny that the statement you made is supported by any fact. I hope
the time will never come when I, or any other Member of Congress,
objects to constructive criticism of any act that I perform. I welcome
it. I have never sought it, nor has any member of this committee,
and certainly not as a committee action, ever sought to penalize
or to even criticize any person who constructively criticizes our action,
because we welcome it. We know we are not perfect and we are trying
in our humble way to do the job that the American people, through its
representatives in Congress, have evolved upon our shoulders.
Is there any further question, Mr. Counsel?
Mr. Tavenner. No, there are not, Mr. Chairman. .
Mr. Wood. The witness may be excused from further attendance.
Have you any other witnesses?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wood. I believe we will take a recess for about 15 minutes at
this time.
(A short recess was taken.)
Mr. Wood. Please let's have order in the hearing room. Are you
ready to proceed, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1631
Mr. Wood. The record will show that the full subcommittee is
present. Whom will you call?
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Lilith James.
Mr. Wood. Mrs. James, come forward. Will you please hold up
your right hand and be sworn? You do solemnly swear the evidence
you give this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth ?
Mrs. James. I do.
Mr. Wood. Be seated. Are you represented by counsel, Mrs. James ?
Mrs. James. Yes, I am.
Mr. Wood. For the record, will counsel identify himself again.
Mr. Wirin. A. L. Wirin, Los Angeles.
Mr. Wood. Proceed, counsel.
TESTIMONY OF MRS. LILITH JAMES, ACCOMPANIED BY HER
COUNSEL, A. L. WIRIN
Mr. Tavenner. You are Mrs. Lilith James ?
Mrs. James. Yes, I am.
Mr. Tavenner. You are the wife of Mr. Dan James ?
Mrs. James. Yes, I am.
Mr. Wood. Mrs. James, I wonder if you would mind pulling your
chair just a little closer to the table and maybe the amplifier will carry
your voice a little better.
Mrs. James. My name is Lilith James.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state that again?
Mrs. James. Lilith, L-i-1-i-t-h.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell it again ?
Mrs. James. L-i-1-i-t-h.
Mr. Tavenner. In what profession are you engaged, Mrs. James?
Mrs. James. I am a writer-housewife.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged in the profession
of writing?
Mrs. James. My first writing was in connection with a musical,
Bloomer Girl, which was produced in 1944.
Mr. Tavenner. Where were you then living ?
Mrs. James. In Hollywood.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. James, did you hear the testimony this morning
of Mr. Martin Berkeley ?
Mrs. James. Yes, I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Berkeley, as you may have heard, testified that
you were at one time a member of the Communist Party. I would like
to ask you if you have ever been a member of the Communist Party.
Mrs. James. I am not a Communist, Mr. Tavenner, but I decline
to answer the rest of the questions on the grounds of the fifth amend-
ment.
Mr. Tavenner. I haven't asked you but one part of the question
that you think I have asked you.
Mrs. James. All right.
Mr. Tavenner. My question was whether you ever have been a mem-
ber of the Communist Party.
Mrs. James. I must decline — I will decline to answer under the
fifth amendment.
1632 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Tavenner. But you have indicated, from what you said, that
37ou are not now a member of the Communist Party.
Mrs. James. No, I am not, nor am I a sympathizer.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, when did you leave the Communist Party ?
Mrs. James. I didn't say I had ever been a Communist.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party be-
fore these hearings began, say, on Sunday of this past week?
Mrs. James. I decline on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on
Monday ?
Mrs. James. I decline, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on
Tuesday ?
Mrs. James. I decline.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party when
you entered this room today ?
Mrs. James. No, I was not.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member in 1944 ?
Mrs. James. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend-
ment.
Mr. Tavenner. How long were you engaged in the work on
Bloomer Girl?
Mrs. James. For about a year, a year and a half.
Mr. Tavenner. During what period of time was that?
Mrs. James. Beginning early in 1943, I believe, up until the tim«
of its production, which was in October of 1944.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter, any questions ?
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle, any questions?
Mr. Doyle. You mentioned you were a writer and a housewife.
Mrs. James. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Are there some little Jameses ?
Mrs. James. There is a little James and a big James.
Mr. Doyle. So that you are not now engaged in writing very much ?
Mrs. James. Yes ; I am still engaged in writing.
Mr. Doyle. I noticed that your answer — you said, "I am not a
Communist and I do not sympathize with communism," or something
like that. You used almost the exact wording that your husband used
in the same answer. Now, I know that, of course, you and your hus-
band have discussed this hearing and how you would answer that
question, haven't you?
Mrs. James. Of course.
Mr. Doyle. Of course. Perfectly natural that you should. I don't
criticize you for doing it, of course. I couldn't help but notice
that your wording was almost exact. Now, were you a Commimict.
30 days ago ?
Mrs. James. I decline to answer, Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. Well, why do you decline to answer ?
Mrs. James. I feel that an answer to this question might tend to
incriminate me.
Mr. Doyle. You state that you were not a Communist when you
came in the door. Why, then, wouldn't you tell us if you were a
Communist 30 da}^s ago ?
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1633
Mrs. James. I believe this is a legal question.
Mr. Doyle. I am not trying to make it a legal question, beeansp.
you have a very able lawyer by your side there.
Mr. Wirin. I will be glad to answer any questions that are put
to me — most any questions.
Mr. Doyle. You heard your husband a few minutes ago state that
he thought that, in substance — I believe he stated, because I made
a note of it, that he felt that this committee should investigate
subversive people and programs. You heard him so state, and I think
he added that, however, some of the crop might be hurt when we were
getting at the weeds.
Mrs. James. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. You heard that?
Mrs. James. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Now, what is your idea about whether or not the United
States Congress should investigate subversive people and programs
of subversive groups? Should we or shouldn't we?
Mrs. James. I feel this is a question of my opinion, sir. I don't
know. I am not a student of political affairs. I know that this
committee is acting within its rights. However, I have my own con-
science, and I am taking my stand within my rights under the fifth
amendment and what I feel right as my conscience dictates to me.
Mr. Doyle. Well, I would agree with you, Mrs. James, that you
must follow the dictates of your conscience in connection with your
patriotic obligation to your whole nation which gave you birth, I
think, and perhaps your children birth. We are not urging you to
waive your conscience in any way. I am sure you understand that,
don't you ?
Mrs. James. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. But when you say that you are sure this committee is
acting within its rights, we are not only acting within our rights, we
are acting under a directive from the United States Congress which
is embodied in a Federal statute which says that our duty is to come
and ask you what you know about subversive people and subversive
groups, so it is the United States Congress that is asking you, through
us. It is not this committee, only. It is the whole United States
Congress. You understand, don't you ?
Mrs. James. Yes, I understand.
Mr. Doyle. Now, your husband — I want to repeat to you — a few
minutes ago, therefore, said he felt that we should investigate sub-
versives, and what is your idea ? Should we or should we not ?
Mrs. James. Yes, I feel you should do your job.
Mr. Doyle. You help us, please, investigate it. Do you know of
any Communist fronts active in this area now ?
Mrs. James. I must decline to answer your question on the previous
grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Were you ever a member of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. James. I decline to answer on the previous grounds.
Mr. Doyle. Have you any recommendation as to how this com-
mittee can investigate subversive people and programs, as long as
you have stated you thought we ought to ? How shall we get at it ?
Mrs. James. Are you asking my opinion, Mr. Doyle ?
Mr. Doyle. Yes; I am.
1634 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mrs. James. Well, I feel that this committee has certainly found
the Communists are not being a very effective voice in Hollywood, be-
cause I think most of the witnesses who have been here have said that
they are not influencing the films that are distributed to the American
people, so I don't feel that
Mr. Doyle. I know. But I am asking you, How shall we investigate
it?
Mrs. James. That is your job, sir.
Mr. Doyle. I know it is our job.
Mrs. James. I don't wish to give an opinion.
Mr. Doyle. And our job is to get your help. And your help, we
believe, is to come clean and help us investigate subversive conduct in
Hollywood. Now, you haven't answered that. Have you any way
that we can get at the subversive people, the people that would uproot
our constitutional form of government and favor Soviet Russia?
Have you any recommendation of what we shall do ? You don't tell
us anything about what you know about communism.
Mrs. James. No; I have no recommendation.
Mr. Doyle. Why don't you tell us what you know about it and
heln us?
(The witness made no answer.)
Mr. Doyle. I don't want to urge you or hurry you to do it ; I want
you to take plenty of time to answer that question. Take more time
if you want before you answer it. But why don't you help us, Mrs.
James? You've got some young children growing up. Why don't
you help us in the field of communistic influences in Hollywood ?
Mrs. James (conferring with counsel). I will try to answer your
question, Mr. Doyle, and this isn't what my lawyer just advised me.
Mr. Doyle. I am glad you consulted your lawyer.
Mrs. James. I feel that it is quite possible to be opposed to commu-
nism and its principles and its alliance to the Soviet Union and to be
in support of our Government, our Government's policy in Korea —
which I certainly am — and still feel that it is not an American rule to
have to name names of people when it will influence their lives and
their families and their children. This is not my reason for declining.
I decline on the grounds of the fifth amendment. But this is my
position.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson.
Mr. Jackson. Mrs. James, do I understand that you wrote Bloomer
Girl, or had a part in the writing?
Mrs. James. Yes ; and several other people.
Mr. Jackson. Did you also appear in Bloomer Girl?
Mrs. James. No, sir. I am not an actress.
Mr. Jackson. Were you ever a member of Actors' Equity?
Mrs. James. Yes, I was a member of Actors' Equity when I was a
ballet dancer, which was up until 1936, I believe.
Mr. Jackson. Were you present at a meeting in the Astor at which
time Actors' Equity undertook to censure Frank Fay ?
Mrs. James. No, sir.
Mr. Jackson. You were not present at that time ?
Mrs. James. No, sir. I was in Hollywood.
Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1635
Mr. Potter. No questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wood. Any further questions by counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused ?
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask one further question.
Mr. Wood. Proceed.
Mr. Tavenner. The witness has stated that she would not answer
the question as to whether or not she was a member of the Communist
Party yesterday. But as to this morning she was not a member of the
Communist Party. I would like to know whether the appearance
of this committee here for the conduct of these hearings had anything
to do with that answer of hers.
Do you understand what I mean ?
Mrs. James. No ; I am afraid that I don't.
Mr. Tavenner. Whether or not the presence of this committee in
the conduct of this investigation has had anything to do with the
existence of the facts upon which you have made those answers.
Mr. Wirin. May I explain to her just the question ?
Mr. Tavenner. I would rather have her ask me if she doesn't
understand the question. Of course, if she wants advice of counsel,
that's all right. But if it is a matter of explanation of my question I
would rather explain it.
Mr. Wirin. She apparently wants my advice. May I give it to her?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Wirin. If I explain the question in the course of it you won't
mind too much ?
Mr. Tavenner. I assume it will occur.
Mrs. James (conferring with counsel). The answer to the question
is "No."
Mr. Tavenner. Thank you.
Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused from
further attendance on the committee ?
Mr. Tavenner. No.
Mr. Wood. It is so ordered.
Mr. Tavenner. Georgia Backus, Mrs. Georgia Backus Alexander.
Mr. Wood. Are you Mrs. Alexander?
Mrs. Alexander. I am.
Mr. Wood. Please hold up your right hand and be sworn. You do
solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give this subcommittee
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God ?
Mrs. Alexander. I do.
Mr. Wood. Mrs. Alexander, are you represented by counsel ?
Mrs. Alexander. I am so represented.
Mr. Wood. Again, for the record, please, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Kenny. Robert Kenny and Ben Margolis, Los Angeles.
TESTIMONY OF GEORGIA BACKUS ALEXANDER, ACCOMPANIED BY
HER COUNSEL, ROBERT KENNY AND BEN MARGOLIS
Mr. Wood. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please ?
Mrs. Alexander. Georgia Backus Alexander.
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live, Mrs. Alexander ?
1636 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mrs. Alexandee. Well, Mr. Tavenner, I would like to ask that
you not ask me to give this over the radio, since a witness today said
that he received threats, and it seems to me that it is quite possible
that the address might put me in jeopardy.
Mr. Wood. Please speak a little louder ; I didn't hear the request.
Mrs. Alexander. I said I heard this morning that the first witness
who was on the stand today said that he had received threats, and
I would like to ask not to have to give my address over radio, because
this is being taped, I understand.
Mr. Wood. I think that is a reasonable request, Mr. Counsel.
If you don't mind, write it and give it to the reporter.
(The witness wrote the following address which was given to the
reporter: 6149 Fulton Avenue, Van Nuys, Calif.)
Mr. Tavenner. Do you appear here in response to a subpena
served upon you ?
Mrs. Alexamder. I do.
Mr. Tavenner. When was a subpena served ; do you recall ?
Mrs. Alexander. I don't recall the exact date, but it was sometime
the first of August.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall an occasion when an investigator of
this committee in February uf this year, February 24, called at your
home in order to serve a subpena upon you to appear in Washington ?
Mrs. Alexander. I did not see the investigator. I understand that
he was there.
Mr. Tavenner. You were there at the time that he arrived, were
you not ?
Mrs. Alexander. I was there. I was at home.
Mr. Tavenner. Your husband prohibited you from seeing the
investigator or from receiving the subpena to appear before the
committee ?
Mrs. Alexander. I had planned on going on a vacation. I had
not been very well at the time ; and, as work was rather scarce, I
made my plans to go on a vacation. I was cleaning my house, getting
ready to go, getting my clothes in order; and I did not know until
after the men were there who they were. So I proceeded about my
vacation as I had planned.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer my question, please? I don't be-
lieve you have answered it.
Will you read the question back to the witness if she desires it, or
do you understand the question ?
Mrs. Alexander. Would you read the question back ?
(The reporter read the question, as follows :)
Your husband prohibited you from seeing the investigator or from receiving
the subpena to appear before the committee?
Mrs. Alexander. No ; my husband did not.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation, Mrs. Alexander?
Mrs. Alexander. I am an actress.
Mr. Tavenner. Where have you practiced your profession ?
Mrs. Alexander. Stage, radio, screen.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged as an actress in
California?
Mrs. Alexander. Approximately 10 or 12 years. I came out here
in 1938, and I don't remember when I started working after I came-
out here.
COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1637
Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time did you also appear in
screen plays?
Mrs. Alexander. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What are some of the principal plays in which you
have taken a part?
Mrs. Alexander. I have been in quite a few plays during this time,
and I don't know as I can recall them all. Don Renegade, Dream
Girl, Cause for Alarm. I am a free-lance actress, and as such I play
small character parts, and there have been quite a lot.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been the extent of your participation in
radio work in recent years?
Mrs. Alexander. Again as a free-lance actress. I have played off
and on in dramatic presentations on the radio.
Mr. Tavenner. What are some of the principal plays that you have
engaged in?
Mrs. Alexander. Oh, NBC Theatre, Let George Do It, Screen Di-
rectors' Guild.
(Conferring with counsel.)
There have been quite a few. I can't recall them at the moment. I
have done quite a number of radio plays. Excuse me a minute.
(Conferring with counsel.)
I really don't remember. You go on a show in radio and you go on
one time, and then you don't get a call for that show again for several
months, and some other director calls you for another show, and that's
the way it goes.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, the committee has information that during
the period of time that you have been here, or at least during part
of that time, you have been a member of the Communist Party. If
that is true, we would like for you to tell the committee the circum-
stances under which you became a member of the party and to give us
information which you have or should have had if you were such
a member.
Mrs. Alexander. I feel that it is not only my right but my duty in
taking the privilege of the fifth amendment on any questions con-
cerning organizations which this committee has deemed subversive,
or other words ; and I decline to answer this question on the grounds
that an answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you consider that membership in the Communist
Party constitutes membership in a subversive organization?
Mrs. Alexander. That is your definition. You have said that.
Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you.
Mrs. Alexander. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Any questions, Mr. Walter?
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle, any questions?
Mr. Doyle. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson, any questions ?
Mr. Jackson. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter, any questions ?
Mr. Potter. No questions.
Mrs. Alexander. May I submit a statement, please?
1638 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY
Mr. Wood. Any further questions by counsel ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused from
further attendance ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Wood. This is submitted for the record ?
Mrs. Alexander. Yes.
Mr. Wood. Very well. The witness may be excused.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, due to the lateness of the hour,
I suggest now that you resolve the committee into an executive session.
Mr. Wood. Very well. I want to make an announcement before
the recess. The committee desires to hold a short executive session in
this room immediately upon the recess of the committee and that will
entail the necessity of the audience vacating the room, and we will
appreciate it if you will do so as rapidly and orderly as possible so
that we may proceed, and we will recess at this point until 10 o'clock
tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon, at the hour of 4: 40 p. m. an adjournment was taken
in the above hearings until the hour of 10 a. m. of the following day,
September 20, 1951.)
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