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WILLIAMS,  L)\Vi\,  ii, 


COMMUNIST    INFILTRATION    OF    HOLLYWOOD 
MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY-PART  4 


HEARINGS 

BEFORE  THE 

COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE  OE  REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-SECOND  CONGKESS 

FIRST  SESSION 


SEPTEMBER  17,  18,  AND  19,  1951 


Printed  for  the  use  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities 


UNITED   STATES 
GOVERNMENT  PRINTING  OFFICE 
&1595  WASHINGTON  :   1951 


COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 
United  States  House  of  Representatives 

JOHN  S.  WOOD,  Georgia,  Chairman 

FRANCIS  E.  WALTER,  Pennsylvania       ■        HAROLD  H.  VELDE,  Illinois 
MORGAN  M.  MOULDER,  Missouri  BERNARD  W.  KEARNEY,  New  York 

CLYDE  DOYLE,  California  DONALD  L.  JACKSON,  California 

JAMES  B.  FRAZIER,  JR.,  Tennessee  CHARLES  E.  POTTER,  Michigan 

FRAN'k  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  Counsel 

Louis  J.  Russell,  Senior  Investigator 

John  W.  Cabkington,  Clerk  of  Committee 

Raphael  I.  Nixon,  Director  of  Research 

Special  Subcommittee  Appointed  To  Sit  in  Los  Angeles,  Calif.,  To  Hold 

Hearings  on  This  Subject 

JOHN  S.  WOOD,  Georgia,   Chairman 

FRANCIS  E.  WALTER,  Pennsylvania  DONALD  L.  JACKSON,  California 

CLYDE  DOYLE,  California  CHARLES  E.  POTTER,  Michigan 

II 


CONTENTS 


September  17, 1951 : 

Testimony  of :  Page 

Harold  J.  Ashe 1415 

Mildred  Ashe 14C0 

Michael  Gordon 1480 

Charles  Daggett 14S6 

Percy   Solotoy 1490 

September  18, 1951 : 
Testimony  of: 

Henry  Blankfort 1495 

Howland  Chamberlin 1503 

Leo  Towsend 1506 

Dr.  Leo  Bigelman 1542 

Helen  Slote  Levitt 1549 

Alfred  Levitt 1552 

Bess  Taffel 1560 

Herbert  Arthur  Klein 1562 

September  19, 1951 : 
Testimony  of : 

Martin  Berkeley 1576 

Philip  Edward  Stevenson 1613 

Daniel  Lewis  James 1622 

Lilith    James 1631 

Georgia  Backus  Alexander 1635 

m 


COMMUNIST  INFILTRATION  OF  HOLLYWOOD  MOTION- 
PICTUEE  INDUSTRY— PART  4 


MONDAY,   SEPTEMBER   17,    1951 

House  of  Representatives, 
Subcommittee  of  the  Committee 

on  Un-American  Activities, 

Los  Angeles,  Calif. 

A  Subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  met 
pursuant  to  call  at  9 :  50  a.  m.  in  room  518  Federal  Building,  Los 
Angeles,  Calif.,  Hon.  John  S.  Wood  (chairman)  presiding. 

Committee  members  present:  Representatives  John  S.  Wood 
(chairman),  Francis  E.  Walter,  Donald  L.  Jackson,  Clyde  Doyle,  and 
Charles  E.  Potter. 

Staff  members  present:  Frank  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  counsel;  Thomas 
W.  Beale,  Si\,  assistant  counsel;  Louis  J.  Russell,  senior  investigator; 
William  A.  Wheeler,  investigator;  and  John  W.  Carrington,  clerk. 

Mr.  Wood.  The  subcommittee  wil  be  in  order. 

Please  let  the  record  disclose  that  acting  under  the  authority  vested 
in  me  as  chairman  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  of 
the  House  of  Representatives,  I  have  designated  a  subcommittee  to 
continue  the  hearings  that  were  initiated  in  March  of  this  year.  That 
subcommittee  consists  of  Mr.  Walter  of  Pennsylvania,  Mr.  Doyle  of 
California,  Mr.  Jackson  of  California,  Mr.  Potter  of  Michigan.  There 
are  present  of  that  subcommittee  all  of  them  except  Mr.  Doyle,  whose 
presence  is  expected  momentarily. 

I  would  like  to  take  advantage  of  this  opportunity  to  express  thanks 
and  appreciation  of  the  subcommittee  to  Mr.  James  J.  Boyle,  United 
States  marshal  for  the  southern  district  of  California,  for  the  effi- 
cient manner  in  which  he  has  performed  the  duties  of  his  office  in 
serving  subpenas  for  the  attendance  of  witnesses  at  this  hearing; 
Mr.  E.  F.  Stillwell,  the  superintendent  of  the  building,  for  his  splen- 
did cooperation  in  making  facilities  available  to  us ;  and  to  the  Signal 
Corps  of  the  United  States  Army  for  making  this  public-address 
system  available  to  us  at  these  hearings. 

I  would  also  like  to  express  the  appreciation  of  the  committee  for 
the  splendid  cooperation  of  many  other  of  the  citizen  groups  and 
organizations  in  and  around  Los  Angeles  for  their  many  expressions 
of  cooperation  and  splendid  assistance,  including  the  press,  radio, 
television,  and  many  private  groups  and  indvduals. 

In  this  connection  I  would  like  to  read  one  of  the  communications 
which  is  typical  of  the  character  of  the  cooperation  that  this  com- 
mittee has  received  and  is  receiving  in  its  efforts  here  to  make  an  in- 
vestigation in  subversive  influences,  particularly  in  the  field  of  enter- 

1415 


1416  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

tainment.  I  would  like  to  read  the  following  letter  directed  to  me  as 
chairman  under  date  of  today  which  has  just  been  handed  to  me. 
[Reading :] 

Dear  Mr.  Wood:  With  regard  to  the  hearings  of  the  Un-American  Activities 
Committee  which  start  September  17,  we  beg  to  call  your  attention  to  the  fol- 
lowing: 

The  signatories  to  this  letter  comprise  the  representatives  of  the  producers, 
actors,  writers,  directors,  and  practically  all  of  the  guilds  and  unions  whose 
members  are  engaged  in  the  production  of  motion  pictures,  and  which,  together, 
constitute  the  Motion  Picture  Industry  Council. 
On  March  21,  1951,  this  organization  stated  : 

"The  Motion  Picture  Industry  Council  reaffirms  its  consistent  opposition  to 
communism,  its  works,  its  members,  its  methods.  It  wants  to  emphasize  that, 
with  the  overwhelming  majority  of  the  American  people,  it  believes  that  a 
'clear  and  present  danger'  to  our  Nation  exists.  The  Motion  Picture  Industry 
Council  offers  its  strength  and  support  to  any  legally  constituted  body  that  has  as 
its  object  the  exposure  and  destruction  of  the  international  Communist  Party 
conspiracy." 

Our  position  is  no  different  today  than  it  was  earlier  in  the  year  when  the 
March  21st  statement  was  made. 

The  Motion  Picture  Industry  Council  speaks  on  behalf  of  the  motion  picture 
industry  in  Hollywood.  We  wish  to  make  crystal  clear  our  complete  repudiation 
of  the  Arts,  Sciences,  and  Professions  Council  and  any  right  of  that  organization 
to  speak  for  any  branch  of  the  motion  picture  industry  in  attacking  the  purposes 
and  objectives  of  your  body. 

Statements  have  been  made  that  there  has  been  resistance  to  the  employment 
of  individuals  because  of  their  activity  in  the  fight  against  communism.  We 
declare  such  statements  to  be  completely  untrue. 

It  is  our  understanding  that  a  number  of  witnesses  have  been  subpenaed  to 
testify  before  your  body.  This  country  is  engaged  in  a  war  with  communism. 
Eighty-seven  thousand  American  casualties  leave  little  room  for  witnesses  to 
stand  on  the  first  and  fifth  amendments;  and  for  those  who  do,  we  have  no 
sympathy. 

We  commend  and  encourage  those  who  testify  to  their  complete  repudiation 
of  communism  and  effectively  demonstrate  their  loyalty  to  our  country.  It  is 
our  hope  that  witnesses  will  testify  honestly,  freely  and  fully,  in  cooperation 
with  your  committee.  In  this  time  of  crisis,  we  believe  that  the  demands  of 
American  patriotism  makes  necessary  that  witnesses  respond  to  the  call  of  their 
country,  as  represented  by  your  committee,  and  give  you  all  information  necessary 
to  the  success  of  your  objective. 

We  are  hopeful  that  through  and  as  a  result  of  the  hearings  of  your  com- 
mittee, ways  and  means  will  be  provided  which  will  enable  the  Nation  to  fairly, 
legally  and  effectively  deal  with  the  problem  of  communism  or  subversive 
elements. 

Very  truly  yours, 

The  Motion  Picture  Industry  Council  for — 
Association  of  Motion  Picture  Producers, 
Artists'  Managers  Guild, 
Hollywood  AFL  Film  Council, 

Independent  Motion  Picture  Producers  Association, 
Independent  Office  Workers, 
Screen  Actors  Guild, 
Screen  Directors  Guild, 
Screen  Producers  Guild, 
Screen  Writers  Guild, 

Society  of  Independent  Motion  Picture  Producers, 
Society  of  Motion  Picture  Art  Directors, 
United  Production  Managers  Guild. 

I  would  like  to  call  further  to  the  attention  of  the  audience  that  is 
present,  this  committee  is  here  as  representatives  of  the  American 
Congress  and  the  American  people  and  is  charged  with  the  responsi- 
bility of  doing  a  duty  imposed  upon  it  by  the  Congress.  This  hearing 
room  has  been  made  available  to  this  committee  for  this  service  and 
is  temporarily  under  its  control.    This  audience  is  here  as  a  courtesy 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1417 

of  this  committee.  It  is  not  a  captive  audience.  You  are  at  liberty 
to  depart  any  time  you  see  fit,  but  while  you  are  here  this  committee 
will  not  tolerate  any  demonstration,  either  approval  or  disapproval,  of 
anything  that  may  be  said  by  any  witness  that  appears  before  this 
committee,  or  any  of  its  members,  or  of  anything  that  may  be  done 
in  these  transactions.  I  sincerely  hope  that  in  the  course  of  these  hear- 
ings it  will  not  be  necessary  to  again  refer  to  this  matter. 

This  committee,  approximately  3  years  ago,  adopted  a  policy  which 
it  has  uniformly  adhered  to  of  prohibiting  moving  pictures  or  televi- 
sion reports  from  its  hearing  rooms.  It  has  come  to  my  attention  that 
there  are  present  in  this  room  now  certain  small  moving-picture  cam- 
eras. I  sincerely  trust  that  this  rule  that  has  been  in  force  by  this 
committee  for  approximately  3  years  will  not  be  violated  in  the  course 
of  these  hearings. 

Mr.  Counsel,  are  you  ready  to  proceed  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  have  just  been  handed  some  other  communications, 
some  several  hundred  that  have  been  handed  me  which  I  haven't  had 
an  opportunity  to  read,  but  I  would  like  to  read  into  the  record 
this  letter,  or  at  least,  to  refer  to  the  letter  as  being  sent  to  this  com- 
mittee endorsing  its  work,  its  objectives  by  the  Grand  Parlor  of  the 
Native  Sons  of  the  Golden  West,  signed  by  Eldred  L.  Meyer  and  by  Mr. 
Ray  Schultz,  financial  secretary  of  Local  80,  Studio  Grip  of  Los 
Angeles,  Calif. 

Proceed. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  would  like  to  call  as  the  first  wit- 
ness this  morning  Mr.  Harold  J.  Ashe. 

Mr.  Wood.  Is  Mr.  Ashe  in  the  courtroom? 

Are  you  Mr.  Ashe  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Ashe,  will  you  lift  your  right  hand  and  be  sworn. 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  give  this  subcommittee 
shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help 
you  God? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  do,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Reporter,  would  you  let  the  record  disclose  that  Mr. 
Doyle,  the  other  member  of  the  subcommittee,  is  now  present. 

TESTIMONY  OF  HAROLD  J.  ASHE 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Ashe,  will  you  move  into  the  chair  closest  to 
the  committee  so  I  will  be  able  to  see  you. 

Are  you  ready? 

Mr.  Wood.  Proceed. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  Mr.  Harold  J.  Ashe? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Ashe  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Irvington,  Pa.,  February  18,  1901. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  profession  or  calling  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  am  a  free-lance  magazine  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  at  one  time  a  functionary  in  the  Socialist 
Party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  was 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  position  did  you  hold  in  the  Socialist  Party? 


1418  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Ashe.  State  secretary  of  the  Socialist  Party  of  California. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  were  you  State  secretary  of  the  Socialist 
Party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Approximately  10  months,  approximately  a  little  longer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Over  what  period  of  time  was  that? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  would  say  from  about  February  or  March  of  1933  until 
possibly  December  or  January  of  1933  or  1934. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  the  period  when  you  held  that  position 
where  did  you  reside  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  At  the  Socialist  Party  headquarters  in  Hollywood, 
known  as  Commonwealth  House. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  that  period  of  time  were  you  acquainted 
with  the  activities  of  the  Communist  Party  in  California? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Not  at  the  outset,  except  by  hearsay. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  occasion,  for  your  learning  of  the 
activities  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mi".  Ashe.  I  learned  of  the  activities  of  the  Communist  Party 
directly  on  joining  the  Communist  Party  in  September  of  1933. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  if  I  understand  you  correctly,  that  while  you 
were  State  secretary  of  the  Socialist  Party  of  the  State  of  California 
you  were  also  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  At  a  later  date,  yes.  I  joined  the  Communist  Party 
and  the  instant  I  joined  the  party  I  was  assigned  back  to  the  Socialist 
Party  to  work  within  the  Socialist  Party  and  to  help  capture  it  and 
channel  Socialist  Party  members  into  the  Communist  Party,  which 
I  did  do. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  spoke  of  the  effort  made  by  the  Communist 
Party  to  capture  membership  from  the  Socialist  Party.  Will  you 
describe  to  the  committee  what  that  effort  was  and  how  it  materialized? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Prior  to  my  actually  coming  into  the  Communist  Party 
the  Socialist  Party — or  the  Communist  Party  through  Sam  Darcy, 
the  district  organizer  of  the  Communist  Party,  issued  a  call  to  the 
Socialist  Party  to  meet  with  the  Communists  on  the  basis  of  certain 
minimum  demands  and  for  purposes  of  establishing  a  united  front. 
I  believe  the  issue  at  the  time  was  the  threat  of  fascism,  in  which  I  was 
greatly  interested  and  in  which  the  Socialist  Party  showed  very  little 
real  interest. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  that  effort  to  bring  the  Socialist  Party  in  as 
a  part  of  the  united  front  successful  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  To  some  extent,  yes.  The  State  executive  committee  of 
the  Socialist  Party  resisted  it.  I  was  the  only  member  of  the  State 
executive  committee,  I  believe,  that  voted  in  favor  of  the  united  front. 
Subsequently  I  was  expelled,  or  rather  removed  as  State  secretary  of 
the  Socialist  Party,  but  I  wasn't  expelled  at  that  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Upon  the  failure  of  the  Communist  Party  to  obtain 
an  approval  by  a  majority  of  the  executive  committee  of  the  Socialist 
Party  to  the  Communist  front — I  mean  to  the  united  front  plan, 
what  plan  did  the  Communist  Party  adopt  to  capture  the  Socialist 
Party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  of  course,  at  first  they  tried  to  establish  a  united 
front  from  above  through  the  leadership.  This  failing,  they  then  re- 
sorted to  what  was  called  the  united  front  from  below.  In  other 
words,  they  reached  out  and  appealed  to  the  individual  rank-and-file 
Socialists  who  were  discouraged  with  the  lack  of  initiative  on  the 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1419 

part  of  the  Socialist  Party  and  who,  like  myself,  were  preoccupied 
with  the  danger  of  communism.  This  was  quite  successful.  I  might 
add  that  at  the  February  1934  convention  of  the  Socialist  Party  a 
very  large  part  of  the  delegates  walked  out  and  reorganized  them- 
selves into  a  rump  convention.  I  would  say  that  possibly  50  of  these 
delegates  were  in  this  rump  convention.  It  was  almost  as  large  as  the 
remaining  Socialist  Party  convention. 

Ultimately,  according  to  Sam  Darcy,  the  Communist  Party  re- 
cruited approximately  600  dues-paying  Socialist  Party  members  into 
the  Communist  Party,  at  which  point  the  Communist  Party  had  suc- 
ceeded in  doubling  its  membership. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  was  in  that  campaign,  in  that  effort  by  the  Com- 
munist Party  that  you  became  a  member  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  remain  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  joined  in  September  of  1933.  I  broke  off  all  organiza- 
tional connection  with  the  Communist  Party  on  February  14,  1939. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  relate  more  in  detail  to  the  committee 
the  circumstances  under  which  you  became  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party;  that  is,  who  recruited  you  into  the  party  and  what 
initial  steps  were  taken. 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  haven't  too  clear  a  recollection  now  of  all  of  the  initial 
steps  that  were  taken  to  get  in  touch  with  or  put  me  in  touch  with 
the  Communist  Party.  I  do  remember  distinctly  that  the  organiza- 
tional secretary  of  the  Communist  Party,  Lawrence  Ross,  was  one  of 
the  signers  of  my  application  card,  and  subsequently  I  met  with  Law- 
rence Ross  two  or  three  evenings  a  week. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  you  first  became  a  member  and  had  these  con- 
ferences with  Lawrence  Ross,  what  instructions  were  given  you  as  to 
your  activity  within  the  Socialist  Party,  of  which  you  were  then  the 
State  secretary  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  can  only  remember  in  a  general  sort  of  way.  It  was 
simply  to  retain  my  position  in  the  Socialist  Party,  not  to  exp6se 
myself  as  a  Communist  but  to  infiltrate  as  much  as  I  could  in  the 
Socialist  Party  to  recruit  wherever  possible.  I  did  do  a  nominal 
amount  of  recruiting,  and  I  understand  this  same  recruiting  was  go- 
ing on  in  other  parts  of  the  State  where  the  Communists  also  had 
party  members  in  the  Socialist  Party.  There  were  at  that  time  some, 
oh.  30  or  40  or  50  locals  of  the  Socialist  Party  scattered  around  the 
State. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  you  first  became  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party,  did  you  meet  an  individual  bv  the  name  of  Stanley  Lawrence? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  met  Mr.  Lawrence  later.  Mr.  Lawrence  came  along 
in  about  1935.  He  was  misrepresented  to  the  Communist  Party  as 
being  an  expert  in  underground  work  and  that  h^was  a  liaison  man 
in,  I  believe,  Hungary  or  Austria  for  important  Communist  members 
there.  Later  independent  investigation  of  mine  revealed  that  he  had 
been  a  Los  Angeles  taxicab  driver.  Just  a  little  deceit  on  the  part  of 
the  Communist  Party  leadership. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That  was  a  device  used  by  the  leadership  of  the 
Communist  Party  to  build  up  Stanley  Lawrence? 

Mr.  Ashe.  They  undertook  to  use  him  to  educate  the  party  leader- 
ship in  Los  Angeies  County  on  underground  work  and  things  of  that 


1420  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

nature.  I  might  add  that  he  knows  less  about  underground  work 
than  my  6-year-old  girl. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  describe  to  the  committee  just  what  the 
activities  of  Lawrence  were,  as  far  as  you  know  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  At  a  later  elate  he  was  put  in  charge  of  Hollywood  ac- 
tivity, organizing  the  party  in  studios,  with  particular  emphasis  on 
professionals  in  the  studios — the  writers,  the  actors,  and  so  forth. 
This  took  the  form  originally,  I  believe,  of  studio  study  clubs.  I 
know  Mr.  Lawrence  used  to  come  down  to  the  headquarters  of  the 
party  and  depart  with  two  or  three  hundred  dollars'  worth  of  books, 
cloth-bound  books,  every  week. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  investigation  conducted  by  the  committee  dis- 
closes that  V.  J.  Jerome  came  to  Hollywood  at  the  time  that  Stanley 
Lawrence  was  still  here. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  as  I  remember  it,  Stanley  Lawrence  made  a  very 
observing  remark  which,  however,  the  comrades  resented  very  much. 
I  think  he  said — in  the  presence  of  some  of  the  studio  comrades,  I 
think  he  made  the  observation  that  the  people  in  Hollywood,  including 
the  comrades,  were  "only  fat  cows  to  be  milked."  Of  course,  at  that 
time  the  party  had  quite  a  few  good-looking  milkmaids.  This  resulted 
in  his  ultimate  removal,  and  Mr.  Jerome  succeeded  to  that  position. 

I  first  met  Mr.  Jerome  in  about,  oh,  I  would  say  June  or  July  of  1936. 
He  was  here  coincidental  with  Earl  Browder.  He  didn't  come  with 
Earl  Browder  but  he  arrived  while  Earl  Browder  was  here,  and  I  was 
the  first  person  that  Jerome  contacted. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Before  proceeding  further  with  the  development  of 
Communist  activities  in  Hollywood  proper,  I  would  like  for  you  to 
state  what  your  first  assignment  was  after  joining  the  party,  other 
than  having  to  do  with  the  work  of  recruiting  within  the  Socialist 
Party. 

Mr.  Ashe.  After  I  came  back  from  the  national  convention  of  the 
Communist  Party  in  Cleveland,  which  was  early  in  1934,  my  first  as- 
signment was  to  the  International  Workers'  Order.  This  assignment 
was  given  to  me  by  Elmer  Hanoff,  the  county  organizer  of  the  Com- 
munist Party.  I  did  not  solicit  the  assignment  from  the  International 
Workers'  Order.  I  want  that  to  be  explicitly  understood.  In  other 
words,  I  went  in  there  on  the  instructions  of  the  Communist  Party, 
and  I  was  accepted  by  the  IWO  as  their  organizer  on  the  representa- 
tion of  the  Communist  Party  that  I  was  suitable  for  the  work. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  this  was  the  beginning 
of  the  work  of  the  International  Workers'  Order  in  California? 

Mr.  Ashe.  The  International  Workers'  Order  was  already  well 
organized  when  I  went  into  it.  They  had,  I  would  say,  12  or  15  lodges, 
and  most  of  them — in  fact,  all  of  them  save  one — were  foreign- 
language  lodges. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  if  you  received  your  appointment  and  direc- 
tions through  the  Communist  Party,  was  it  your  opinion  and  conclus- 
ion at  that  time  that  it  was  an  organization  dominated  and  controlled 
by  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  The  International  Workers'  Order  was  controlled  lock, 
stock,  and  barrel  by  the  Communist  Party  and  was  so  known. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  consider  it  a  part  of  the  Communist  move- 
ment? 


COMMUNISM   EST   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1421 

Mr.  Ashe.  Definitely.  I  have  received  many  donations  from  the 
various  lodges  of  the  International  Workers'  Order  given  directly  to 
the  Communist  Party,  knowingly. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  assigned  to  any  particular  cell  of  the 
Communist  Party  when  you  first  joined  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  was  first  assigned  to  a  street  unit  in  the  Hollywood 
street  section  of  the  Communist  Party.  This  was  early  in  1934.  How- 
ever, I  was  traveling  a  great  deal  of  the  time  for  the  party  as  a  speaker, 
and  I  daresay  I  didn't  attend  more  than  a  dozen  meetings  all  during 
1934. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  do  you  mean  by  "street  section"  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  use  that  term  to  differentiate  from  the  section  that 
later  was  developed  there  which  was  known  as  the  studio  section. 
There  has  been  a  great  deal  of  confusion  about  this  in  the  minds  of  a 
lot  of  people.  They  are  two  entirely  separate  and  distinct  sections. 
The  street  section  was  then  organized  along  strictly  territorial  or 
geographical  lines.  The  studio  section  did  not  recognize  any  geo- 
graphical limitations  but  was  determined  by  whether  a  person  worked 
in  the  studios  or  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  at  this  particular  time  to  which  you  now  refer, 
if  a  person  from  the  studio  happened  to  live  within  the  geographical 
section,  he  likely  would  have  been  a  member  of  the  particular  cell? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That  is  true. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That  section? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That  is  correct  except,  back  in  1934,  I  question  very 
much  whether  there  were  very  many  important  studio  people  that 
were  members  of  any  unit  of  the  party  in  Hollywood.  They  may  have 
been  members  at  large,  or  there  may  have  been  some  other  dispensa- 
tion to  take  care  of  them. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  this  street  section  also  commonly  known  as 
the  downtown  section  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  No;  the  downtown  section  was  a  different  section,  en- 
tirely. The  downtown  section  composed  roughly  the  forty-fourth, 
forty-fifth,  and  fifty-fourth  assembly  districts.  It  included  all  of  the 
assembly  districts  from  the  Fourteenth  Congressional  District  except 
the  sixty-second. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  when  did  you  become  exposed  publicly  as  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Immediately  upon  my  return  from  the  Cleveland  con- 
vention of  the  Communist  Party,  where  I  was  one  of  the  speakers. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That  was  in  1934  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  1934.    In  fact,  I  was  exposed  at  that  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  After  your  exposure,  what  unit  or  section  of  the 
Communist  Party  were  you  assigned  to  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  It  was  at  that  time  that  I  went  into  this  Hollywood  unit. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Oh,  I  see 

Mr.  Ashe.  And,  as  I  say,  I  was  there  probably  until  late  fall,  1934. 
I  was  running  for  State  office,  and  I  didn't  attend  very  many  meet- 
ings. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  State  office  were  you  running  for  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Secretary  of  state. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  On  what  party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Communist  Party. 


1422  COMMUNISM    IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  After  you  served  as  a  member  of  the  Hollywood 
street  section  or  group,  were  you  transferred  to  another  section? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  was  transferred  to  the  downtown  section,  and  be- 
cause of  certain  difficulties  I  was  experiencing  in  Hollywood  with  a 
man  by  the  name  of  Tashjian,  who  was,  apparently,  out  to  give  me  a 
very  bad  time.  Bob  Minor  intervened  and,  I  understand,  gave  Mr. 
Tashjian  a  bad  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  ask  you:  Was  he  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Dr.  Tashjian? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  position  did  he  hold,  if  any,  in  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  At  that  time  I  was  unable  to  find  out  whether  he  held 
any  position  or  not,  but  he  exerted  a  great  deal  of  influence.  He  had 
a  considerable  gift  for  intrigue  and  also  for  stirring  up  factional 
disputes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Would  you  describe  the  doctor  a  little  more  fully. 
What  type  of  doctor  was  he  ?    Was  he  a  medical  doctor  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  He  was  what  Bob  Minor  referred  to  contemptuously  as 
a  "proletarian  dentist." 

Mr.  Tavenner.  As  a  result — he  is  not  living  at  this  time ;  is  he  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  believe  that  he  died  sometime  ago  after  leaving  a  Com- 
munist meeting. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  there  any  effort  to  discipline  you  as  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party  as  the  result  of  the  complaint  or  dispute 
which  the  doctor  had  aroused? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  Dr.  Tashjian  was  a  rigid  little  disciplinarian ;  and, 
not  having  understood  clearly  how  I  had  come  into  the  party,  which 
involved  a  considerable  period  of  training  and  study  under  Lawrence 
Ross  and  under  Elmer  Hanoff ,  the  organization  secretary  and  organ- 
izer of  the  party,  respectively,  which  involved  meetings  sometimes 
two  and  three  times  a  week  with  them,  Dr.  Tashjian  decided  that  I 
had  not  gone  to  a  beginner's  class  and  that  I  should  go  to  a  beginner's 
class. 

Well,  I  had  been  to  about  the  equivalent  of  three  beginner's  classes, 
and  I  had  been  speaking  officially  in  the  name  of  the  Communist 
Party  throughout  the  State  at  mass  meetings  and  had  been  meeting 
in  closed  meetings  of  the  Communist  Party  to  help  them  straighten 
out  matters ;  so,  I  thought  this  was  going  a  little  bit  too  far.  However, 
he  did  enforce  his  point,  and  I  was  obliged  to  go  to  one  beginners' 
class  in  Hollywood,  the  only  time  I  attended.  The  next  day,  when  the 
county  leadership  found  out  what  happened  and  when  Bob  Minor 
found'  out  what  happened,  they  went  into  a  huddle  and  gave  Dr. 
Tashjian,  I  understand,  a  very,  very  bad  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  was  the  doctor  known  as  the  chairman  of  the 
disciplinary  committee? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Not  at  that  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Not  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Ashe.  He  later  succeeded  to  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  you  have  stated  that  you  were  assigned  to  the 
downtown  section. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  right. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1423 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  were  you  in  that  section  of  the  Commu- 
nist Party  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  was  in  the  downtown  section,  or  the  successors  to  it — 
they  changed  the  terminology  some — until  the  day  I  terminated  my 
membership  in  the  Communist  Party,  which  was  in  February  1939. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  I  would  like  to  go  back  to  the  first  group  that 
you  were  assigned  to,  the  Hollywood  street  group,  and  ask  you  if  you 
can  identify  the  names  of  the  members  of  that  group. 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  will  try.  Bill  and  Clara  Ward  were  members ;  my  wife 
and  I  were  members. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  let's  not  go  quite  so  fast  there.    Bill 

Mr.  Ashe.  Bill  and  Clara  Ward. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  will  you,  in  identifying  them,  give  us  such 
further  information  relating  to  them  as  you  can  from  your  recollec- 
tion as  to  their  participation  and  their  position  and  vocation? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  I  never  did— well,  I'll  take  that  back.  I  do  now 
know  what  Bill  Ward's  vocation  was.  He  was  a  police  officer  in  the 
Los  Angeles  Police  Department.  Bill  and  Clara  Ward  at  various 
times  were  on — or,  I  believe,  at  one  time  she  was  membership  director. 
At  another  time — this  is  for  the  county.  At  another  time  I  believe 
she  was  dues  secretary,  and  for  a  considerable  length  of  time  she  served 
on  the  disciplinary  committee.  In  fact,  I  was  on  the  disciplinary 
committee  for  a  while  with  her.  Bill,  to  my  knowledge — I  don't  be- 
lieve ever  held  any  position  of  responsibility,  but  merely  went  along 
with  his  wife  and  sat  in  on  many  of  these  meetings. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  All  right.    Will  you  continue  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  There  was  a  man  by  the  name  of  Morton  Beeman.1  I 
believe  he  is  now  deceased.  It  is  my  recollection  that  he  was  organizer 
at  least  part  of  the  time  while  I  was  in ;  his  wife,  Ruth,  whose  first 
name  I  can't  now  recall.  There  were  two  Japanese  whom  I  can't 
further  identify.  One  or  two  other  people  whom  I  can't  bring  into 
focus  at  this  time,  and  in  addition,  there  was  Will  Geer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  Geer? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  his  occupation? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  believe  at  that  time  he  was  trying  to  get  work  in  the 
studios.     Probably  did  occasional  bit  work. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  A  person  by  the  name  of  Will  Geer,  an  actor,  ap- 
peared before  the  committee  in  Washington  and  refused  to  answer 
questions  that  were  propounded  to  him  regarding  his  alleged  Com- 
munist Party  affiliations  and  activities.  Do  you  know  whether  it  was 
the  same  individual  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  it  is  only  an  assumption  on  my  part.  I  think  it 
is  a  fair  assumption,  because  I  followed  Will  Geer's  professional  career 
for  some  years.  I  know  that  the  same  Will  Geer  that  I  knew  in  1934 
was  the  Will  Geer  who  appeared  in  two  outstanding  theatrical  pro- 
ductions m  1937  in  New  York  City.  He  was  appearing  in  two  simul- 
taneously, as  I  recall  it.  I  believe  one  was  called  Pins  and  Needles. 
I  don't  at  the  moment  recall  the  other  one. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  do  you  know  whether  or  not  there  was  any 
change  m  the  spelling  of  his  name? 


1  Ad  individual  was  named  by  Mrs.  Mildred  Ashe  as  Morton  Beaman. 


1424  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  have  noticed  lately  that  he  spells  it  differently  than 
when  I  knew  him.  When  I  knew  Will  Geer  he  spelled  it  G-h-e-r-e,  I 
believe.     I  think  he  has  since  simplified  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  whether  he  played  in  a  picture  called 
the  Tall  Target  or  the  Man  on  the  Train  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  wouldn't  know. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  whether  he  played  in  a  picture  called 
Lights  Out,  at  Universal  Studio? 

Mr.  Ashe.  No ;  I  do  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  meet  at  that  time  a  person  by  the  name  of 
Hose  Elf  man  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  have  since  tried  to  refresh  my  memory  on  her,  and  at 
this  time  I  wouldn't  want  to  say  under  oath  whether  she  is  or  is  not 
a  Communist.  I  know  the  woman.  I  have  seen  her  around  meetings. 
1  can  visualize  her  at  a  Hollywood  street  demonstration  that  we  had, 
but  at  this  time  I  cannot  positively  place  the  woman  as  to  party 
affiliation. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  spoke  of  having  met  several  Japanese  at  that 
time. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  recall  their  names  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  No  ;  I  cannot.  I  might  say,  however,  there  were,  to  the 
best  of  my  recollection,  about  40  Japanese  members  of  the  Commu- 
nist party  in  Los  Angeles.  This  was  their  principal  concentration 
point,  and  they  had  a  nationality  commission  that  was  located  in 
Los  Angeles  contrary  to  the  procedure  of  other  nationality  commis- 
sions. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  the  testimony  of  General  Willoughby  before 
the  committee  several  weeks  ago  relating  to  the  Sorge  spy  trial  in 
Japan,  it  developed  there  was  a  Japanese  by  the  name  of  Miyagi  who 
was  executed  as  one  of  the  spies  in  that  spy  ring,  came  from  Japan  and 
was  a  member  of  the  United  States  Communist  Party.  In  the  course 
of  the  interrogation  of  Miyagi  in  Japan,  he  referred  to  certain  ac- 
tivities of  the  party  in  California,  which  I  want  to  call  to  your  atten- 
tion. In  describing  the  activities  in  1930,  which  I  understand  Avas 
earlier  than  your  connection  with  the  party 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  He  stated  that  it  fostered — meaning  by  "it"  the 
Communist  Party — fostered  strikes  in  the  Imperial  valley  against 
such  large  capital  concerns  as  the  Girard  Co.  and  the  Sun  Fruit  Co. 
and  agitated  among  the  fishermen  and  fishing-industry  workers  in 
San  Pedro.  In  the  course  of  your  activities  in  the  party,  did  you  ob- 
tain any  information  relating  to  those  incidents  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  knew  about  them  only  from  having  been  told  about 
them  by  other  Communist  Party  members.  I  know  that  at  a  later 
date  another  effort  was  made  to  organize  the  unorganized  field  workers 
in  Imperial  Valley,  and  I  believe  also  in  the  San  Joaquin  Valley.  I 
believe  these  strikes  were  broken.  I  am  not  too  clear  now  as  to  the 
outcome  of  them.     They  were  Communist-led. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  while  you  were  a  member  of  the  downtown 
group  of  the  Communist  Party,  were  you  assigned  the  task  of  organiz- 
ing units  or  sections  of  the  Communist  Party  or  cells  of  the  Commu- 
nist Party  ? 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1425 

Mr.  Ashe.  At  one  time  I  was.  I  held  possibly  20  positions  at  one 
time  or  another  in  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  I  think  this  would  be  a  good  time  for  you  to 
state  just  what  positions  you  have  held  in  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  I  was  State  chairman  of  the  State  central  commit- 
tee of  the  party  in  1936.  I  was  downtown-section  organizer  for  about 
a  year,  year  and  a  half ;  Western  Worker  correspondent  for  approxi- 
mately a  year. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  right  there  for  just  a  moment.  What  pub- 
lication was  that? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Western  Worker,  official  publication  of  the  Communist 
Party  at  that  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  it  succeeded  by  another  publication? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Yes.    I  was  succeeded  by  the  People's  Daily  World. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Proceed. 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  believe  I  was  county  chairman  at  one  time  of  the  Relief 
Workers'  Protective  Union,  which  was  composed  of  unemployed  work- 
ers and  which  was  a  very  fine  source  for  recruiting  party  members  at 
that  time.  I  was  chairman  of  various  united-front  groups.  I  was 
official  speaker  for  the  Communist  Party  for  a  considerable  period  of 
time.  I  toured  the  State.  I  believe  I  edited  a  paper  called  the  Hunger 
Fighter,  official  organ  of  the  Relief  Workers'  Protective  Union,  and 
probably  held  a  good  many  other  jobs.  I  taught  briefly  in  the  Los 
Angeles  Workers'  School,  taught  what  was  known  as  labor  journalism. 
Actually  it  was  teaching  them  basic  English. 

I  can't  think  of  any  more  offhand.  Oh,  yes,  I  served  for  a  while 
on  the  Los  Angeles  County  disciplinary  committee  and  I  was  a  mem- 
ber of  the  executive  committee  of  the  Communist  Party  here  in  Los 
Angeles  County. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  connected  at  any  time  with  the  Workers' 
Alliance? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Workers'  Alliance  succeeded  the  Relief  Workers'  Protec- 
tive Union  and  to  the  best  of  my  recollection  I  was  not  in  it  at  that 
time.  I  think  I  was  deeply  involved  in  State  organizational  work  for 
the  party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  were  telling  the  committee  of  the  assignment 
you  had  in  organizational  work  in  the  establishment  of  certain  cells 
or  units  of  the  party.     Will  you  continue  with  that,  please? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  as  downtown-section  organizer,  I  believe  it  was 
called  subsection  for  a  while,  and  later  section,  I  had  charge  of  all 
of  the  units  in  the  section,  which  incidentally  was,  I  believe,  the 
largest  section  in  the  city,  numerically.  I  believe  in  1936  at  our 
section  convention  we  reported  somewhere  between  300  and  350  mem- 
bers. The  reason  I  recall  this  is  because  there  was  considerable  argu- 
ment among  the  delegates,  who  accused  me  of  padding  the  member- 
ship. I  was  in  the  unenviable  position  of  not  being  able  to  reveal 
to  them  that  the  membership  was  so  large  because  I  had  attached  to 
the  street  section,  several  professional  sections  that  could  not  be  ex- 
posed and  couldn't  even  be  identified  by  name. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  instrumental  in  the  formation  of  these 
professional  sections  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  The  professional  units ;  yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Why  was  it  that  the  membership  in  the  units  was 
to  be  kept  secret  ? 


1426  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Ashe.  Because  of  the  character  of  their  employment.  Some 
were  attorneys,  some — I  believe  one  was  a  dentist ;  two  or  three  of  them, 
I  believe,  were  writers,  newspapermen,  and  so  forth,  and  so  on.  They 
could  only  be  recruited  on  the  basis  of  not  being  exposed.  I  know, 
again,  I  ran  into  Dr.  Tashjian,  who  insisted  on  forcing  these  people 
into  street  units  where  they  would  immediately  be  exposed  instead  of 
being  exposed  here  15  years  later. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  other  words,  these  individuals  wanted  to  reap 
whatever  profits  or  advantage  they  could  from  their  activities  and 
yet  have  their  names  concealed  because  they  knew  it  was  an  unlawful 
enterprise  in  which  they  were  engaged  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  right.  They  didn't  have  any  guts.  They  don't 
today. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  there  any  name  or  designation  for  those  pro- 
fessional units? 

Mr.  Ashe.  It  started  out  very  small.  After  the  EPIC  convention 
in  1935,  which  I  covered  for  the  Daily  Worker  and  the  Western 
Worker,  I  met  two  or  three  individuals  who  were  sympathetic.  I 
took  them  over  to  the  Western  Worker  office  and  high-pressured  them 
into  the  party.  Those  individuals  were  Morgan  Hull — I  now  under- 
stand he  is  dead — another  one  was  John  Jack  Wilson,  better  known  in 
the  Communist  Party  as  John  Broman;  and  a  third  person  whose 
name  escapes  me  at  the  moment.  But  I  recruited  three  that  night  and 
in  the  next  2  or  3  weeks  was  able  to  convince  the  party  that  a  pro- 
fessional unit  should  be  permitted. 

Over  Dr.  Tasjian's  objection  we  set  up  a  unit  known  as  Z-100. 
Z-100  immediately  started  meeting.  I  usually  met  with  them  be- 
cause there  were  no  old  party  members  to  guide  them.  It  recruited 
very  rapidly  and  I  would  say  within  about  5  months  it  had  become 
so  large  we  had  to  split  the  unit  and  make  another  unit  called  Z-150. 
The  last  I  knew  of  these  two  units  the  combined  membership  totaled 
about  23. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  wish  you  would  give  to  the  committee  the  names 
of  the  members  of  these  professional  units  whose  membership  was  to 
be  kept  secret. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Jeff  Kibre  was  one.     Later  on 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Just  a  moment.  In  giving  the  names  of  these  in- 
dividuals I  wish  you  would  identify  them  as  fully  as  you  can  so  that 
there  will  be  no  misunderstanding  as  to  the  individual  man. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Jeff  Kibre,  as  I  recall,  was  unemployed  at  that  time.  I 
don't  know  what  his  background  was.  He  was  fairly  young,  I  would 
say  25  or  30. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  what  he  is  doing  now  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Yes.  He  is  with  a  fishermen's  union  down  at  San  Pedro, 
I  believe,  a  branch  of  Harry  Bridges'  union,  I  understand. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  he  a  union  organizer  at  any  time,  to  your 
knowledge? 

Mr.  Ashe.  He  had  had  no  union  experience  at  the  time  he  came  into 
the  party;  that,  I  am  reasonably  certain  of. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  unaware  of  whether  or  not  he  had  gained 
such  experience  later? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  presume  he  did  through  the  guidance  of  the  Commu- 
nist Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  his  wife  a  member,  do  you  know  ? 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1427 

Mr.  Ashe.  His  wife  was  later  recruited,  I  believe,  over  his  vigor- 
ous objections.  I  never  did  find  out  why  he  objected  to  his  wife  being 
in,  but  I  do  distinctly  recall  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  have  already  spoken,  I  believe,  of  Jack  Wil- 
on,  also  known  as  Jack  Broman. 

Mr.  Ashe.  He  was  also  quite  young.  I  believe  he  had  had  some 
slight  amount  of  newspaper  experience.  I'm  not  sure  now,  but  I  be- 
lieve he  worked  for  an  organization  at  that  time  known  as  the  City 
News  Service.  I  believe  they  had  headquarters  in  the  old  L.  A.  Times 
Building. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  what  his  later  Communist  Party  ac- 
tivity consisted  of  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  Jack  later  came  into  the  downtown  street  unit,  did 
expose  himself,  showed  considerably  more  courage  than  a  lot  of 
others  that  he  had  been  with.  He — I  believe  I  proposed  his  name  as 
Western  Worker  correspondent  after  I  was  no  longer  holding  that 
position.  He  still  went  to  San  Francisco,  worked  on  the  West- 
ern Worker,  I  believe,  there,  and  still  later  on  the  People's  World. 
At  a  later  date  I  believe  he  became  an  editor  of  a  newspaper  put 
out  by  the  fishermen's  union. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well ;  proceed  with  the  naming  of  any  others. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Spencer  Austrian,  a  Los  Angeles  attorney ;  Joe  Aidlin, 
a  Los  Angeles  attorney ;  Percy  Solotoy,  a  Los  Angeles  attorney. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  say  Percy  Solotoy  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  give  us  any  additional  information  relat- 
ing to  him  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  know  very  little  about  him  except  I  met  with  him  pos- 
sibly 20  or  30  times  in  closed  party  units,  Z-100  or  Z-150,  or  both.  At 
that  time  he  was  an  attorney,  a  practicing  lawyer,  here  in  Los  Angeles. 
I  lost  track  of  him  after  I  got  out  of  the  party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  he  is  employed  or  in  what  business  he 
is  now  engaged? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  understand  he  is  now  the  head  of  Brown-Saltman 
Furniture  Co.  and  also  an  official  in  the  Southern  California  Furni- 
ture Manufacturers'  Association. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  his  wife  was  also  a  member 
of  this  unit  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  To  the  best  of  by  recollection,  she  was.  I  have  the  dis- 
tinct impression  that  she  was  transferred  out  of  that — I  have  a  dis- 
tinct impression  that  she  was  transferred  out  of  the  professional  sec- 
tion and  into  the  social  workers,  or  professional  unit,  I  should  say,  into 
the  social  workers  unit,  which  was  also  attached  to  downtown. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  spoke  of  Spencer  Austrian.  Will  you  spell 
the  last  name,  please. 

Mr.  Ashe.  A-u-s-t-r-i-a-n. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  anything  about  his  present  where- 
abouts ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  understand  he  is  still  in  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  if  you  will  continue,  please,  with  the  names, 
if  you  can  recall  them. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  Joe  Aidlin  I  mentioned  without  further  identify- 
ing him.     He  was  a  young  attorney  at  that  time.     He  was  married  to 

81595 — 51 — pt.  4 2 


1428  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

a  woman  by  the  name  of  Mary  Raden.  Mary  Raden  at  that  time 
was  office  secretary  of  the  Communist  Party  of  Los  Angeles  County. 
She  was  not  an  official ;  she  was  an  office  secretary.  I  might  add  that 
Joe  Aidlin  and  Mary  Raden  later  moved  into  my  home  which  I  had 
had  at  1124  North  Randall  Court. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  I  understand  that  Mary  Raden  was  a  member 
of  this  group  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  No;  she  was  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  She  was  not? 

Mr.  Ashe.  No.  She  was  a  member  of  a  street  unit  in  Hollywood  at 
that  time.     She  was  an  exposed  party  member. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  she  was  a  member  of  another  cell  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  ? 

Mr.  Ashe."  That's  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well,  sir.  Were  there  others  whose  names 
vou  can  recall  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Charlie  Daggett,  Los  Angeles  newspaperman,  was  a 
member  of  that  professional  unit. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  have  any  additional  descriptive  informa- 
tion you  could  give  regarding  Daggett? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Oh,  not  particularly,  except  that  he  was  rather  a  vacil- 
lating sort  of  character. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  didn't  mean  for  you  to  describe  personal  traits 
particularly,  unless  it  is  necessary  in  order  to  identify  the  individual. 

Mr.  Ashe.  He  was  a  man  at  that  time,  I'd  say,  about  35  years  old, 
rather  inclined  to  flesh,  had  many  years'  experience  as  a  newspaper- 
man. I  believe  he  worked  on  the  Seattle  Star  as  city  editor  while  that 
paper  was  still  going.  I  understand  he  worked  on  the  Los  Angeles 
News  around  about  1934  or  1935.  He  was  a  close  friend  of  Morgan 
Hull.  I  would  assume  that  Morgan  Hull  may  have  even  recruited 
him. 

I  remember  at  one  time  that  Charlie  Daggett  undertook  to  write 
for  a  magazine  called  New  Theatre.  New  Theatre  was  a  left-wing 
Communist-controlled  publication  put  out  in  New  York.  I  believe 
a  man  by  the  name  of  Herb  Klein  was  its  editor.  He  wrote  two  or 
three  articles  in  there  in  which  he  blackguarded  several  personalities 
in  Hollywood,  and  I  know  that  the  magazine  was  a  sell-out  in  Holly- 
wood and  was  even  selling  at  a  premium.  There  was  a  considerable 
speculation  as  to  who  had  written  the  article.  I  think  at  one  time 
somebody  rather  shrewdly  guessed  that  he  did,  and  about  that  time 
they  concluded  that  somebody  else  did.  So  they  never  did  pin  it 
down  to  him.  But  Charlie  Daggett  has  admitted  to  me  several  times, 
with  considerable  pride,  that  he  wrote  these  articles. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  what  his  present  employment  is  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  No ;  I  do  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  identify  him  as  to  the  meetings  that  he 
attended.  How  frequently  did  you  see  him  at  Communist  Party 
meetings  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  would  say  almost  every  week  for  a  period  of  time 
when  we  were  trying  to  get  these  professional  units  going  and  trying 
to  work  out  some  formula  by  which  the  professionals  could  partici- 
pate in  Communist  work  without  exposing  themselves. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  All  right,  sir;  now  if  you  will  proceed  to  name 
others,  if  you  recall  them. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1429 

Mr.  Ashe.  Herb  and  Minna  Klein.  This  Herb  Klein,  by  the  way, 
is  not  to  be  confused  with  the  editor  of  the  New  Theatre  magazine. 
This  is  Herb  and  Minna  Klein.  I  believe  Herb  Klein  had  been  a 
correspondent  for  UP  over  in  Germany  before  Hitler's  rise  to  power. 
I  believe  his  immediate  interest  in  the  Communist  Party  when  he 
came  in  was  his  fear  of  the  threat  of  fascism.  Minna  Klein  came  in, 
I  believe,  at  the  same  time.  I  understand  later  that  he  taught  out 
at  Los  Angeles  City  College  as  an  instructor,  I  believe,  in  journalism. 
I  am  not  sure  on  that  point. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  the  spelling  of  his  last  name? 

Mr.  Ashe.  K-1-e-i-n. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  many  meetings  did  he  and  his  wife  attend, 
to  the  best  of  your  recollection  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well  they  attended,  so  far  as  I  know,  every  meeting  that 
I  attended.  I  would  say  at  that  time  I  was  attending  at  least  half  of 
these  meetings  because,  as  I  say,  there  was  no  leadership  in  there  that 
had  had  any  experience  in  the  party,  and  for  that  reason  I  was  devot- 
ing a  considerable  amount  of  my  time  to  them,  including  meeting  with 
them  after  their  meetings  were  over,  in  my  home.  I  might  add  that 
most  of  these  meetings  were  held  in  my  home. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  in  what  business  Mr.  Klein  is  engaged 
now,  or  how  he  is  employed  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  No  ;  I  do  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  give  us  the  name  of  others,  please  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Lucy  Stander,  who  was  at  that  time  the  wife  of  J.  Stand- 
er,  also  known  as  Lionel  Stander.  He  was  a  character  actor,  I  believe, 
in  Hollywood.  He,  however,  was  not  in  the  unit  for  any  great  length 
of  time.  I  recall  distinctly  that  he  was  brought  in  and  a  very  short 
time  later  was  transferred  out.  I  don't  know  the  reason  for  the  trans- 
fer. 1  think  it  was  arranged  directly  between  Stander  and  the  county 
office  of  the  party.  However,  his  wife  remained  in  one  of  these  pro- 
fessional units. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  definite  in  your  statement,  however,  that 
Lionel  Stander  was  a  member  of  this  group  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Lionel  Stander  was  definitely  a  member  of  this  group. 
He  was  transferred  in,  and  I  handled  the  transfer.  Of  that  I  am 
positive. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  from  what  place  he  was  transferred  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  believe  New  York  City. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  referred  to  a  person  by  the  name  of  Hull  a  few 
moments  ago. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  Morgan  Hull. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  that  Hull  or  Hall  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Hull,  H-u-1-1. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  I  understand  that  Morgan  Hull  was  a  member 
of  this  group  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct.  I  recruited  him.  He  was  one  of  the 
first  members. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  his  employment? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  believe  at  the  time  I  recruited  him  he  was  a  reporter 
for  the  Los  Angeles  Times.  I  think  he  shortly  afterward  lost  his 
job.     I  am  not  too  clear  about  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  his  wife  a  member,  also,  or  not  ? 


1430  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Ashe.  Charlotte  Hull  was  also  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party,  coming  in  at  the  same  time  he  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  there  others  whose  names  you  recall? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  don't  believe  I  mentioned  a  man  by  the  name  of  Lou 
Harris  and  his  wife  Vera  Harris. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  Lou  Harris'  position  at  the  time? 

Mr.  Ashe.  He  was  holding  some  minor  position  with  Paramount 
Studios.  I  believe,  if  I  am  not  mistaken,  he  came  out  here  to  work  in 
the  trade  department  of  the  publicity  end  of  the  studios,  writing  pub- 
licity for  motion-picture  trade  magazines  and  also  laying  out  ads  for 
the  same  trade  magazines. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  the  name  Lou  is  an  abbrevi- 
ation of  a  name  or  whether  that  is  his  full  name? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  I  wouldn't  know  as  to  that.  I  never  knew  him  as 
anything  else  except  Lou  Harris. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  L-o-u  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  L-o-u. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  other  persons? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Did  I  mention  Jane  Wilson  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No  ;  you  have  not. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Jane  Wilson  is  the  sister  of  Jack  Wilson.  She  is  better 
known  in  the  party  as  Jane  Wallace.  I  helped  recruit  her.  Her 
brother  signed  the  card,  and  I  countersigned  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  spoke  earlier  of  a  dentist,  but  you  did  not  give 
a  name. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Dr.  Albert  Hickox. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Dr.  Albert  Hickox,  H-i-c-k-o-x  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  was  he  from  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Los  Angeles.    A  practicing  dentist. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  giving  us  the  name  of  Jane  Wilson  you  did  not 
state  what  her  connection  was,  what  her  affiliation  was  in  the  Com- 
munist Party,  other  than  being  a  member.  Can  you  tell  us  anything 
more  about  that  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  At  the  time  she  was  in  this  unit  she  was  only  a  rank-and- 
file  member.  At  a  later  time  I  ran  into  her  working  in  the  Interna- 
tional Workers'  office  as,  I  believe,  a  paid  worker  in  there,  some 
secretarial  capacity. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  that  the  International  Workers'  Order? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That  is  correct.  That  is  when  they  were  located  in  the 
Douglas  Building. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name  of 
SydBirk? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Yes,  very  well.  Syd,  I  believe,  is  the  third  person  that 
I  recruited  the  night  I  recruited  Morgan  Hull  and  Jack  Wilson. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  how  he  was  later  employed? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  don't  recall  too  much  about  Syd's  early  employment. 
At  the  outset  he  certainly  wasn't  employed  by  the  party.  He  was 
unemployed  for  a  considerable  length  of  time.  He  had  employment 
at  one  time  with  the  Mayer  Advertising  Co.  on  South  Main  Street. 
This  is  a  direct-mail  advertising  company.    I  lost  track  of  Syd. 

The  last  I  knew  of  him  he  was  working  for,  I  believe,  the  People's 
World.  I  had  dinner  with  him  one  night  in  about  1946,  and  he  was  so 
obtuse  that  I  was  unable  to  convey  to  him  my  sentiments,  and  we  parted 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1431 

friends.    The  next  time  I  saw  him  on  the  street  he  wouldn't  speak  to 
me,  or  didn't  speak  to  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Does  Syd  Birk  spell  his  name  S-y-d  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  B-u-r-k-e  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  B-i-r-k  is  a  party  name.    His  real  name  is  Berkowitz. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  does  he  spell  his  last  name  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  B-e-r-k-o-w-i-t-z.  I  would  like  to  say,  for  his  father, 
that  his  father  has  no  sympathy  whatsoever  for  Syd's  politics. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  was  the  last  time  that  you  saw  Charles 
Daggett  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  saw  Charley  Daggett  in  about  1939  up  in  San  Fran- 
cisco. A  rather  amusing  incident  impressed  it  on  me.  Charley  had 
just  rented  an  apartment  up  there  that  was  unfurnished,  and  he  had 
undertaken  to  make  some  furniture  to  get  out  of  buying  any.  I  recall 
distinctly  that  he  had  a  chair  that  he  was  very  proud  of  and  was  show- 
ing me  the  construction  of  it.  It  was  simply  four  upright  legs  and  a 
piece  to  go  across  for  the  seat,  and  I  remember  that  I  sat  down  on  it  and 
the  thing  collapsed.  It  developed  that  all  he  had  done  was  to  drive 
one  nail  through  each  leg  of  the  chair,  and  I  know  he  was  very  much 
distressed  that  his  craftsmanship  had  been  exposed.  I  really  think  he 
ought  to  get  himself  a  job  as  an  apprentice  with  Percy  Solotoy. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  he  at  that  time  or  any  other  time  deliver  to  you 
any  document  or  book  relating  to  communism  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Yes.  He  gave  me  a  book,  the  1938  Report  of  the  Un- 
American  Activities  Committee,  which  I  have  in  my  possession  now 
with  his  name  on  it.  I  understand  Mr.  Daggett  doesn't  remember  me, 
but  I  have  a  book  I  borrowed  from  him  in  his  home,  and  I  have  it  to 
this  day. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  have  it  with  you. 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  do  not,  unfortunately.  It  was  a  book  that  he,  in  turn, 
received  from  Congressman  Havenner,  of  San  Francisco. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Containing  reports  of  this  committee  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's -correct,  for  the  year  1938. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  occasion  for  his  giving  you  a  report 
prepared  by  this  committee  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Oh,  he  was  amused  at  some  of  the  testimony  and  thought 
it  might  be  enlightening  to  me.  It  was,  very,  because  at  that  time  I 
was  out  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  during  the  period  of  time  that  you  were  in  the 
party,  you  must,  of  course,  have  become  well  acquainted  with  other 
functionaries  in  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  wish  you  would  give  us  the  names  of  the  func- 
tionaries in  southern  California  who  were  active  in  the  work  of  the 
party. 

Mr.  Ashe.  When  I  came  into  the  party,  the  bureau  was  composed 
of  Elmer  Hanoff,  organizer — this  is  the  county;  Elmer  Hanoff,  organ- 
izer: Lawrence  Ross,  organization  secretary,  and  Jimmy  Allen.  I 
never  did  figure  out  what  Jimmy  Allen's  function  was.  A  short  time 
later  Hanoff  was  removed  as  organizer.  Lawrence  Ross  became  acting 
organizer,  and  Louise  Todd  came  down  at  about  that  time  and  she 
became  organizer.  There  was  a  considerable  shuffle  there.  It  was 
quite  a  scandal  in  the  party,  which  they  hushed  up.    Then  Ross  went  to 


1432  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

San  Francisco  as  editor  of  the  Western  Worker.  John  Leech  became 
organization  secretary  under  Louise  Todd  until  she  went  to  Tehachapi 
some  time  in  1935.  That  is  the  State  women's — yes,  prison  for  women. 
Then  Leech  became  organizer,  and  a  person  by  the  name  of  James 
Thorm,  whose  real  name  1  believe  is  Tourney,  was  made  organizational 
secretary.  There  were  two  other  people  around  about  that  time.  One 
was  Eva  Shafran  whom,  I  believe,  was  educational  director,  and  Betty 
Gannett  was  somewhere  in  the  picture.  I  know  she  was  on  the  county 
bureau.  She  exerted  a  very  great  deal  of  influence.  At  the  end  of 
1936,  Leech,  I  believe,  was  removed.  There  was  another  complete 
reshuffle,  and  Paul  Cline  was  brought  out,  I  believe,  from  the  East 
to  be  organizer.  There  was  a  lapse  of  several  months  there  when  there 
were  acting  functionaries  holding  down  the  job. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  does  Paul  Cline  spell  his  last  name? 

Mr.  Ashe.  C-1-i-n-e. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  the  person,  Elmer  Harnoff 

Mr.  Ashe.  Hanoff. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  — Hanoff  to  whom  you  referred  also  known  by  the 
name  of  Pop  Hanoff? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Pop  Hanoff,  that's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  are  there  any  other  functionaries  of  the  party 
whose  names  you  can  now  recall  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  In  the  county  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Ashe.  County  leadership.    Not  offhand,  no. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Tom  Patterson? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  his  affiliation  with  the  party  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  At  one  time  he  was  Western  Worker  correspondent.  I 
believe  for  a  time  he  was  organizer  in  the  Firestone  subsection  of  the 
Communist  Party.  At  a  later  date  he  went  up  to  San  Francisco, 
worked  on  the  Western  Worker  and  eventually,  I  believe,  became  some 
kind  of  a  functionary  in  the  East  Bay  section  of  the  Communist  Party, 
which  includes  Oakland  and  Berkeley. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Miriam  Bonner? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Miriam  Bonner  was  codirector  of  the  Worker's  School 
in  Los  Angeles  during  the  period  of  1934, 1935, 1936  with  Lillian  Jones. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  Pat  Callahan. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Pat  Callahan  was  an  unemployed  leader  here  about 
1935-36. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  he  a  member  of  the  party  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Definitely;  member  of  the  downtown  section  with  his 
wife. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Clyde  Champion. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Clyde  Champion  was  section  organizer  for  the  party 
in  Belvedere  subsection,  1935,  1936. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  James  Tracy. 

Mr.  Ashe.  James  Tracy  was  in  charge  of  railroad  work.  That  is, 
penetration  into  the  railroad  unions  and  brotherhoods  working  out 
of  San  Francisco.  He  was  a  delegate  to  the  national  convention  of  the 
Communist  Party  in  1934. 

Mr.  Walter.  What  was  that  name? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  James  Tracy,  T-r-a-c-y.  William  Ingham, 
I-n-g-h-a-m? 


COMMUNISM   EST   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1433 

Mr.  Ashe.  William  Ingham  functioned  out  in  the  San  Fernando 
Valley  section  of  the  Communist  Party,  and  for  a  long  time  was  a 
member,  and,  for  some  time,  chairman  of  the  disciplinary  committee 
of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mrs.  'Loretta  Adam  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Mrs.  Loretta  Adams  is  one  of  the  leaders  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  in  Long  Beach,  about  1934,  193&,  and  about  1936  she 
transferred  to  Bakersfield  where  she  was  the  Bakersfield — the  Kern 
County  section  organizer. 

(At  this  time  Representative  Donald  L.  Jackson  entered  the  room.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  again  the  last  name  of  that  in- 
dividual ?    How  do  you  spell  the  last  name  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Loretta  Adams,  A-d-a-m-s. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  S.  Adams.    E.  O.  Cope,  C-o-p-e  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  know  a  man  by  the  name  of  Cope.  I  am  not  sure  of 
his  initials.  He  was  active  in  the  milk  strike  in  1932  and  1933  was 
a  Communist  Party  member.  To  my  certain  knowledge  in  1934,  when 
I  had  to  go  out  to  San  Fernando  Valley  representing  the  county  in  an 
effort  to  straighten  him  out  on  some  disruptive  tactics  that  lie  was 
indulging  in  in  the  party  out  there.  I  didn't  straighten  him  out- 
Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  uncertain  about  his  initials.  Can  you  give 
us  any  further  descriptive  information  which  would  definitely 
identify  the  individual  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Short,  stocky  man,  short  tempered;  unpredictable.  I 
believe  he  now  works  as  a  bartender. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Julia  Walsh? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Julia  Walsh,  who  was  a  member  of  the  downtown 
section  of  the  Communist  Party  and  also  was  a  functionary  in  the 
International  Labor  Defense. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Cliff  Lechrome,  L-e-c-h-r-o-m-e? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Cliff  Lechrome  was  a  member  of  one  of  the  units  of  the 
Hollywood  Street  subsection.    I  don't  recall  much  else  about  him. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Charles  McClaughlan,  M-c-C-1-a-u-g-h-l-a-n? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Charlie  McClaughlan  was  Communist  Party  organizer 
for  Orange  County.  This  was  a  separate  section,  but  it  was  under 
the  guidance  of  the  Los  Angeles  County  section  because  of  weakness 
of  leadership  in  Orange  County. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  M.  E.  Freeman  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  M.  E.  Freeman  was  a  Communist  Party  member  down 
town,  I  believe;  also  active  in  the  old  Relief  Workers'  Protective 
Union. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Tom  Miller  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Tom  Miller,  to  the  best  of  my  understanding,  is  a  cousin 
of  Emil  Freed.  Tom  Miller  was  for  a  short  period  of  time  a  mass 
organization  functionary  and  was  a  Communist  Party  member.  He 
held  membership  in  a  street  unit  in  Hollywood. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Emil  Freed,  to  whom  you  just  referred 

Mr.  Ashe.  Emil  Freed  was 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  spelling  is  E-m-i-1  F-r-e-e-d. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Emil  Freed  has,  so  far  back  as  I  know,  been  a  function- 
ary of  one  kind  or  another  of  the  party.  I  believe  at  one  time  he  was 
Hollywood  subsection  organizer.  I  distinctly  recall  him  being  in 
county  organizational  meetings.  I  recall  one  instance  where  he  kept 
asking  something  to  be  explained  over  and  over  again  on  the  basis 


1434  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

that  he  was  afraid  some  of  the  comrades  didn't  understand  it,  and  I 
finally  got  disgusted  and  told  him  to  speak  for  himself,  and  let's  get 
on  with  the  agenda.  He  has  held  any  number  of  functionary  jobs, 
but  I  don't  recall  at  this  time  what  they  are.  I  remember  distinctly 
at  a  free-speech  meeting  in  Hollywood  in  1934  where  he  was  keenly 
disappointed  because  the  police  wouldn't  arrest  him,  and  he  pushed 
his  way  over  to  a  squad  car  and  they  finally  obliged  him.  This  is  the 
first  time  he  made  a  martyr  of  himself. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Melvyn  Letzman,  L-e-t-z-m-a-n  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Letzman  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  in 
Hollywood  and  later  transferred  to  San  Pedro  and  was  an  assistant 
to  whoever  was  then  the  section  organizer  down  there.  I  am  not  sure 
just  who  that  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  like  to  ask  you  one  or  two  other  questions 
about  your  Communist  Party.  What  was  your  connection  with  the 
Motion  Picture  Artists'  Committee  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  In  about  1937  the  Motion  Picture  Artists'  Committee 
conceived  the  idea  of  touring  the  country  in  their  name  with  a  motion- 
picture  short,  about  a  30-minute  sound  film,  called  Heart  of  Spain. 
There  was  no  one  in  Hollywood  that  they  could  use,  so  they  apparently 
appealed  to  the  downtown  section  of  the  Communist  Party — that  is, 
the  county  [branch]  of  the  Communist  Party  to  supply  a  suitable  man- 
ager and  speaker  for  this  tour.  Paul  Cline  recommended  me,  and 
after  considerable  consultation  with  John  Howard  Lawson,  they  fin- 
ally decided  that  it  would  be  all  right  for  me  to  go  representing  the 
committee,  even  though  I  was  fairly  widely  known  as  a  Communist 
Party  member.  They  bought  a  couple  of  old  broken-down  laundry 
trucks  which  they  painted  up  to  look  like  ambulances,  and  I  and  several 
other  people  made  the  tour  of  the  country,  ending  in  New  York  City 
about  the  14th  of  December  1937.  The  purpose  of  the  trip,  of  course, 
was  to  raise  money  for — or  the  ostensible  purpose  was  to  raise  money 
for  the  North  American  Committee  To  Aid  Spanish  Democracy. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  other  words,  that  was  another  device  to  raise 
money  for  the  Loyalist  Spain  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Which  was  the  Communist  Party  line  and  project 
at  that  particular  time? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  right.  I  wouldn't  want  to  testify  as  to  how  much 
of  the  money  ever  got  to  Spain. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  do  you  have  any  direct  information  of  your 
own  as  to  the  misuse  of  any  of  that  money  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  have  just  got  a  very  strong  feeling  that  it  didn't  all 
get  there. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  I  would  like  at  this  point  to  go  back  in  your 
testimonv  to  the  organizational  work  done  by  Stanley  Lawrence  and 
later  by  V.  J.  Jerome  in  the  motion  picture  industry,  generally. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  I  am  not  too  familiar  with  that  aspect  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  activity  except  insofar  as  I  had  some  knowledge  of  it  as 
a  result  of  reports  made  in  the  county  executive  committee  meeting 
in  informal  discussions  with  various  functionaries  of  the  party,  in- 
cluding discussions  with  Stanley  Lawrence  over  coffee  sometimes.  I 
do  know  that  they  raised  a  considerable  sum  of  money  out  there  dur- 
ing that  period — I  believe  considerably  more  than  they  anticipated 
at  the  outset.     In  other  words,  I  don't  think  they  quite  knew  the 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1435 

gold  mine  they  were  opening  up  when  they  did  set  up  these  study 
groups.  I  know  on  one  occasion  Stanley — the  election  campaign  com- 
mittee, I  should  say,  of  which  I  was 'the  head— needed  some  quick 
money  to  finance  the  preliminary  arrangements  for  Earl  Browder  to 
speak  at  a  big  stadium  on  the  East  Side.  We  needed  this  money  to 
lay  on  the  line  right  now.  Stanley  Lawrence  raised,  within  a  matter 
of  a  few  hours,  a  thousand  dollars,  brought  it  down  in  cash,  and  gave  it 
to  me.  We  later  paid  this  back.  I  remember  another  occasion  when 
I  had  to  go  out  to  Hollywood  with  Earl  Browder  to  make  a  movie 
short — I  believe  it  was  a  talkie — which  was  to  be  used  for  campaign 
purposes.  It  never  was  used,  but  I  believe  it  was  made.  The  last 
thing  before  I  left  the  downtown  office  with  Browder  was  to  receive 
from  Stanley  Lawrence  several  hundred  dollars  to  turn  over  to  Tania 
Tuttle,  who  had  charge  of  making  this  film,  and  which  I  did  turn  over 
to  her. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  who  was  her  husband  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Frank  Tuttle. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Frank  Tuttle,  the  director? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  From  your  observation  and  your  knowledge  as  a 
functionary  of  the  Communist  Party,  what  would  you  say  was  the 
principal  objective  of  the  Communist  Party,  and  how  did  it  go  about 
the  accomplishment  of  it  in  Hollywood  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  In  Hollywood?  Well,  I  would  say  that  the  purpose  of 
the  Communist  Party  in  Hollywood  was  fourfold :  First,  to  surround 
the  party  with  as  many  name  personalities  as  possible,  both  as  party 
members  and  as  sympathizers  and  dupes  and  dopes,  so  that  they 
could  exploit  these  people's  names ;  and  they  did.  Second,  to  recruit 
members  into  the  Communist  Party.  Third,  to  raise  money,  which, 
as  I  said  before,  I  don't  think  they  realized  at  the  outset  the  gold  mine 
that  they  had  there,  but  which  they  quickly  exploited  to  the  fullest — 
and,  in  fact,  there  are  five  points.  Fourth,  they  wanted  to  control,  as 
far  as  possible,  the  content  of  the  films  made  in  Hollywood.  I  have 
read  the  testimony  of  some  of  the  people  who  have  testified  before 
this  committee,  in  which  they  insist  that  it  is  virtually  impossible  to 
control  the  content.  These  are  friendly  witnesses.  I  have  to  find 
myself  in  complete  disagreement  with  them  because  I  know  of  any 
number  of  occasions  when  they  did  influence  the  content  of  these 
films.  I  didn't  come  prepared  to  give  chapter  and  verse.  I  could  if 
I  had  enough  time  to  do  some  research.  I  have  seen  many,  many 
films  out  of  Hollywood  in  which  some  part  of  the  Communist  line 
was  injected  by  deliberate  intent.     It  couldn't  have  been  otherwise. 

At  the  same  time,  the  Communist  Party  wanted  to  control  the  con- 
tent of  the  film  in  the  sense  that  there  would  be  nothing  of  an  anti- 
Communist  nature  in  there  that  would  discredit  them,  and  I  under- 
stand that  they  were  quite  effective  at  that  at  one  time.  I  know  that  at 
one  time  there  were  picket  lines  here  in  the  city  of  Los  Angeles  picket- 
ing anti-Communist  films,  and  I  am  quite  certain  that  we  were  advised 
of  the  anti-Communist  content  of  these  films  by  the  Communists  in 
Hollywood  who  would  have  the  first  knowledge  of  any  anti-Commu- 
nist content. 

So  I  am  afraid  that  these  other  witnesses  who  have  said  that  it  is 
impossible  to  influence  the  content  of  the  films  were  not  sufficiently 
familiar  with  all  of  the  ramifications  of  the  Communist  movement 


1436  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

and  of  all  of  their  front  organizations  and  of  all  of  their  immediate 
aims  to  be  competent  to  recognize  any  such  Communist  content  when 
they  saw  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  now,  what  instances  can  you  point  out  to  the 
committee  in  which  the  Communists  succeeded  in  influencing  the 
•content  of  the  film  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  As  I  said  I  didn't  come  prepared  on  this  point.  I 
would  like  to  point  out,  however,  that  Blockade  was  written  by  Clif- 
ford Odets,  I  believe;  and  John  Howard  Lawson  took  the  credit. 
Blockade  was  certainly  a  Communist  film  from  start  to  finish.  It 
used  the  situation  in  Spain,  it  is  true,  as  the  focal  point  for  the  film; 
but,  if  I  had  the  time  and  had  resources,  I  think  I  could  trace  Blockade 
right  back  to  its  original  source ;  namely,  one  of  the  leading  propa- 
gandists for  the  Soviet  Union  who  had  used  the  same  film  years  and 
years  and  years  before — used  the  same  theme.  The  same  theme  was 
used  at  still  a  later  date  by  a  German  producer  who  was  a  Communist, 
and  in  1938,  Mr.  Lawson  and  Clifford  Odets  helped  themselves  to  it 
again — gave  it  a  different  name,  a  little  different  treatment.  The 
theme  was  exactly  the  same. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  do  you  think  the  success  in  being  able  to  im- 
jjart  the  Communist  line  into  the  film  was  the  result  of  carelessness 
or  any  deliberate  attempt  on  the  part  of  the  producers  to  permit  such 
a  thing 

Mr.  Ashe.  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Or  was  it  a  thing  that  you  think  was  accomplished 
through  stealth  and  deceit,  or  how  do  you  explain  it? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  explain  it  on  the  basis  that  it  was  a  deliberate,  calcu- 
lated, carefully  planned  maneuver  on  the  part  of  the  Communists 
who  were  in  a  position  to  do  it  and  also  upon  the  lack  of  vigilance 
•on  the  part  of  non-Communists  and  anti-Communists  that  have  never 
taken  the  time  to  find  out  what  communism  is  and  who  are  allergic 
to  finding  out  to  this  day. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  there  any  other  instance  that  you  can  point  out 
to  the  committee? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Not  offhand. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  we  were  engaged  in  discussion  of  the  princi- 
pal objectives  of  the  Communist  Party  in  the  organization  of  the  party 
in  Hollywood.  Now,  you  have  named,  I  believe — this  is  the 
fourth 

Mr.  Ashe.  The  fourth  point. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Point. 

Mr.  Ashe.  The  fifth  point  is  the  objective  of  the  Communist  Party 
to  penetrate  the  craft  unions  in  Hollywood  and  to  control  them.  This 
ties  in,  of  course,  very  nicely  with  all  of  their  other  objectives  in  Holly- 
wood. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  done  by  the  Communist  Party  to  organize 
or  to  capture  the  craft  unions  in  Hollywood  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  of  course,  a  considerable  part  of  that  took  place 
after  I  was  either  inactive  or  actually  out  of  the  Communist  Party. 
However 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.  I  mean  for  you  to  testify  only  regarding  your 
own  observations  and  the  knowledge  acquired  by  you  while  you  were 
a  functionary  of  the  party. 


COMMUNISM   EST   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1437 

Mr.  Ashe.  In  1933,  during  a  period  when  the  Communist  Party 
was  still  a  rather  sectarian  organization  with  red  or  mechanical  ap- 
proaches to  problems,  during  a  period  when  they  still  had  what  was 
known  as  the  TUUL,  the  Trade  Union  Unit  League,  during  a  period 
when  they  had  dual  unions  in  which  small  splinter  unions  of  Com- 
munists were  organized  in  the  same  industries  where  regular  unions 
were  functioning,  during  this  period  of  time  the  Communist  Party 
in  Hollywood,  with  the  encouragement  of  the  downtown  section  of 
the  Communist  Party,  undertook  to  organize  an  industrial  union 
along  the  lines  of  their  previous  activity.  The  purpose  of  this  was 
to  organize  the  crafts  and  the  talent  in  one  big  union,  which  would 
be  controlled  by  the  Communist  Party  and  which  would  result  in  the 
liquidation  or  the  crushing  of  the  craft  unions. 

Considerable  progress  was  made  in  this.  I  understand  at  one  time 
they  had  several  hundred  members  signed  up.  It  was  all  done  se- 
cretly. There  were  a  minimum  of  meetings  held,  and  then  suddenly 
the  word  came  down  the  line  to  the  left-wingers,  the  Communists, 
that  a  new  line  had  to  be  taken. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  say  that  several  hundred  had  been  signed  up. 
Did  you  represent  the  various  crafts?  Were  they  taken  from  the 
various  crafts  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct.  They  were  organized  along  industrial 
lines.  That  is,  industry  which  had  lines  without  respect  to  their  craft 
or  their  talent. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  these  .individuals  were  not  necessarily  mem- 
bers of  the  Communist  Party 

Mr.  Ashe.  Definitely  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  — nor  necessarily  sympathetic  to  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Definitely  not.  They  were  sold  a  bill  of  goods  on  the 
basis  of  an  industrial  union  which  would  be  more  effective  than  the 
unions  had  been  to  that  time  in  representing  talent  and  the  craft 
workers. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  do  I  understand  from  your  testimony  that  the 
leadership  in  the  Communist  Party  was  active  in  the  promotion  of 
this  idea 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner. — and  was  supporting  it? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  then,  what  occurred  in  the  Communist  Party 
line  ?    You  were  about  to  tell  us  that  when  I  interrupted  you. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  at  that  time  I  was  not  a  Communist  Party  member. 
I  was  in  the  Commonwealth  House.  I  lived  there,  had  my  residence 
there.  The  Communists  that  met  out  there  were  not  too  sure  of  just 
what  I  was  at  that  time,  but  they  did  indicate  what  was  going  on  in 
respect  to  this  industrial  union.  There  is  one  man  by  the  name  of 
Helmar  Bergman  who  has  been  around  for  many,  many  years.  He 
was  a  prime  mover  in  it.    Eddie  O'Toole  was  another. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  the  name  Helmar  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  H-e-1-m-a-r. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  B-e-r-g-m-a-n  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  — m-a-n.   Eddie  O'Toole. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Just  a  minute.    Eddie  O'Toole. 


1438  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct,  and  one  other  person  whose  name  escapes 
me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  they  members  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  don't  know  what  their  status  was  at  that  time,  but  I  do 
know  that  they  were  very  disgusted  when  the  word  came  down  that  the 
industrial  union  had  to  be  junked,  that  it  was  party  orders,  and  they 
acceded  to  party  orders.  Another  was  a  man  by  the  name  of  Wolf, 
and  I  understand  that  he  quit  the  party  over  it  because  he  had  put 
many,  many  months  of  work  and  made  a  great  many  sacrifices  to  bring 
this  thing  about,  and  just  as  it  was  beginning  to  flower  and  show  some 
results  the  plug  was  pulled. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  say  the  order  came  down  from  above? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Explain  that. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Came  from  Elmer  Hanoff. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  His  position  at  that  time  was  what? 

Mr.  Ashe.  County  organizer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  As  the  result  of  that,  the  movement  was  abandoned 
to  form — at  least  temporarily  abandoned  to  form  the 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct,  in  favor  of  going  into  the  already  estab- 
lished unions.  This  had  become  the  new  line  of  the  Communist 
Party,  to  infiltrate  these  unions  and,  where  possible,  to  take  them  over, 
regardless  of  how  reactionary  they  were  in  the  eyes  of  the  Communist 
Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  came  into  play  the  organizational  ability  of 
the  Communist  Party  to  infiltrate  and  take  over  those  various 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Organizations  within  the  movie  industry? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Wood.  The  witness  has  been  on  the  stand  now  for  more  than  an 
hour  and  a  half.  I  think  we  should  take  about  a  10-minute  break  at 
this  point.     The  committee  will  stand  in  recess  for  10  minutes. 

(Whereupon,  at  the  hour  of  11 :  30  a.  m.  a  recess  was  taken  for  10 
minutes.) 

Mr.  Wood.  Let's  have  order.  The  people  in  the  audience  will 
please  refrain  from  audible  conversation. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Ashe. 

Mr.  Wood.  Let  the  witness  resume. 

Mr.  Counsel,  are  you  ready  to  proceed  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  We  must  have  order,  ladies  and  gentlemen. 

Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Ashe,  we  were  discussing  the  course  of  conduct 
that  the  Communist  Party  took  in  its  efforts  to  establish  an  over-all 
labor  organization  and  then  the  change  in  the  Communist  Party  line 
which  resulted,  I  believe,  as  you  said,  in  Mr.  Wolf  resigning  from  the 
Communist  Party  as  a  result  of  it,  having  done  a  great  deal  of  work 
to  accomplish  the  first  objective  of  the  party. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct,  to  the  best  of  my  recollection. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  After  that  plan  changed,  or  after  the  Communist 
Party  line  changed,  what  became  the  objective  of  the  Communist 
Party  with  regard  to  its  efforts  to  obtain  control  and  influence  with 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1439 

the  organizations  of  the  union  organizations  within  the  movie 
industry? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  as  I  say,  this  was  part  of  an  over-all  plan  of  the 
Communist  Party  to  infiltrate  all  of  the  orthodox  A.  F.  or  L.  or  in- 
dependent unions,  wherever  they  might  be. 

About  this  time,  during  a  period  of  mass  unemployment,  a  very 
large  number  of  dues-paying  Communist  Party  members  were  them- 
selves unemployed.  I  distinctly  remember  some  word  about  1934 
or  1935,  when  I  was  section  organizer,  directives  came  down  to  us 
to  go  to  any  length  to  get  Communist  Party  members  into  labor  unions, 
even  to  the  extent  of  helping  them  or  actually  paying  their  initiation 
fees  and  dues  in  unions.  In  other  words,  we  were  not  going  to  let 
anything  stand  in  the  way  of  infiltration,  least  of  all  a  few  dollars 
initiation  dues. 

I  recall  that  period  that  the  downtown  section  of  the  party  raised, 
through  a  series  of  benefit  parties,  and  by  other  means,  several  hundred 
dollars  and  we  did  place  a  considerable  number  of  downtown  members 
of  the  Communist  Party  in  A.  F.  of  L.  trade  unions .  One  of  them  later 
became  the  business  agent  of,  I  believe,  the  waiters'  union.  I  under- 
stand during  the  war  that  he  was  a  commissioned  officer  in  the  United 
States  Army.     I  can't  at  the  moment  recall  his  name. 

We  had  considerable  success  in  penetrating  the  painters'  union 
locals  due  in  part  to  the  fact  that  we  already  had  some  forces  in  there. 
In  one  local  on  the  east  side,  I  believe  it  was  a  paperhangers'  local, 
and  also  in  a  painters'  local  on  the  east  side,  that  would  be  Boyle 
Heights.     I  recall 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  that  name  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Boyle  Heights. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  do  you  spell  it? 

Mr.  Ashe.  B-o-y-l-e  H-e-i-g-h-t-s.  This  is  a  section,  or  one  of  the 
old  sections,  of  Los  Angeles  and  a  section  in  which  the  Communist 
Party  has  always  been  strong,  even  in  the  old  days  of  its  sectarianism. 
I  recall  distinctly  that  one  Communist  Party  member  even  went  so  far 
as  to  get  a  charter  for  a  new  local  and  did  set  up  a  new  local  of  the 
painters'  union,  which  automatically  put  him  on  the  painters'  district 
council.  The  name  of  this  person  is  Don  Healy,  formerly  the  husband 
of  Dorothy  Healy. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  person  to  whom  you  referred  as  Dorothy  Healy 
is  now  under  indictment,  I  believe. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  designation  of  the  union  to  which 
you  referred? 

Mr.  Ashe.  The  local  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  new  local  of  the  painters'  union? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  do  not  recall.  I  do  remember  that  for  a  period  of 
time — it  was  a  small  local.  For  a  period  of  time  it  met  out  in  the 
general  vicinity  of  Echo  Park.  That  is  not  too  far  from  the  down- 
town area.  I  believe  at  one  time  there  was  talk  of  my  going  into  the 
local,  but  I  wasn't  able  to  find  any  time  to  participate  in  the  work  and 
it  was  finally  decided  that  I  better  stay  out  of  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  the  •ver-all  plans  of  the  Communist  Party,  what 
was  the  ultimate  objective  in  being  able  to  control  these  various  unions 
within  the  industry  through  infiltration  ? 


1440  COMMUNISM   IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Ashe.  Let  me  understand  your  question.  Do  you  mean  the 
ultimate  aim  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.  In  its  effort  to  infiltrate  the  various  unions 
within  the  moving-picture  industry.  What  was  it  that  they  sought 
to  accomplish  by  adopting  that  policy  in  that  project? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  think  I  covered  that  before  a  recess.  They  had  a 
five-point  program,  as  I  think  I  outlined.  If  you  are  talking  about 
the  ultimate  aim  of  the  Communist  Party  as  an  international  organi- 
zation, that  is  something  else  again.     I  will  be  glad  to  go  into  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  was  not  intending  to  go  that  far.  It  was  only 
as  to  what  they  were  endeavoring  to  accomplish  in  Hollywood  by  this 
type  of  organization  of  the  unions. 

Mr.  Ashe.  They  were  undertaking,  they  were  hopeful  of  con- 
trolling the  motion-picture  industry  through  organizational  channels 
of  whatever  kind  they  could  lay  their  hands  on. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  the  course  of  your  activity  in  the  party  did  you 
become  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name  of  Ralph  Smith  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  he  a  member  of  the  party  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  He  was  not.  He  was  a  member  of  the  Young  Commu- 
nist League.  A  very  bright  boy  in  Hollywood,  very  promising  boy 
from  the  standpoint  of  the  Communist  Party.  For  a  short  time  he 
was  a  functionary  in  the  YCL  in  Hollywood.  A  short  time  later 
Ralph  Smith  was  taken  out  of  practically  all  YCL  work  and  was 
assigned  as  a  liaison  man  between  the  downtown  section  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  and  what  I  later  realized  was  the  studio  section  of 
the  Communist  Party.  I  have  no  detailed  knowledge  of  his  functions 
but  it  is  not  too  difficult  to  understand  what  it  was,  namely,  to  carry 
directives,  to  keep  a  connection  existing  between  the  downtown  leader- 
ship and  the  then  young,  inexperienced  group  which  was  becoming 
the  studio  section. 

I  might  say  that  Ralph  Smith,  I  interviewed  him  about  3  years 
ago  in  his  home  up  north,  and  made  a  special  trip  to  see  him,  and  he 
professes  to  be  out  of  the  Communist  Party  today  but  he  refuses  to 
bear  arms  in  defense  of  the  United  States.  I  can  only  draw  one 
conclusion  from  that. 

I  know  that  in  an  effort  to  locate  him  up  north — I  can  give  you 
his  address  if  you  want  it — a  very  great  deal  of  effort  went  into  trac- 
ing him,  and  it  developed,  I  think  the  agency  that  did  trace  him  will 
agree  with  me  in  saying  that  there  is  every  reason  to  believe  that 
Ralph  Smith  was  trying  to  hide  himself,  that  he  had  cut  all  connec- 
tions with  his  friends  and  acquaintances  in  Los  Angeles  and  had  left 
no  forwarding  address  even.  It  was  only  by  subterfuge  that  his 
present  location  was  had. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  will  ask  you,  after  you  leave  the  stand,  if  you 
will  give  your  views  of  the  address  to  an  investigator  of  the  committee. 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  will. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name 
of  Rena  Vale? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  didn't  know  Rena  Vale  very  well. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  V-a-l-e. 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  knew  her,  but  I  didn't  know  her  very  well.  I  under- 
stand she  was  in  the  party.  I  don't  think  I  am  doing  any  harm  to 
state  it  in  that  way.     I  had  no  personal  knowledge  of  it  but  she  her- 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1441 

self  has  so  stated  on  the  witness  stand.  She  was  active  in,  I  believe^ 
the  writers'  project  in  Los  Angeles,  the  WPA  writers'  project,  which 
at  that  time  was  largely,  if  not  completely,  dominated  by  the  Com- 
munist Party.     I  believe  she  held  some  minor  function  in  her  unit. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  have  testified  that  you  left  the  party  in  1939. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  the  severence  of  your  connection  with  the  party 
occur  suddenly  or  was  it  a  type  of  action  that  took  some  time  to 
develop  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  No,  it  was  not.  I  think  it  might  be  interesting  to  some 
of  the  Communists  here,  who  are  also  looking  for  an  escape  hatch, 
to  find  one  way  of  getting  out  of  the  party  and  severing  their  con- 
nections. 

I  was  considered,  in  193G,  one  of  the  leading  members  of  the  Com- 
munist Party.  In  1936  I  was  already  becoming  very,  very  badly  dis- 
illusioned with  it. 

I  felt  as  early  as  the  end  of  1936  that  the  Communist  Party  was 
a  betrayor  of  the  working  class,  and  I  think  so  today.  In  the  fall  of 
1936  I  asked  to  be  relieved  of  all  responsibility.  I  was  quite  ill  and  I 
was  being  badly  exploited  by  the  party,  working  about  16  to  18  hours 
a  day.  They  refused  to  relieve  me  but  they  did  promise  that  by  the 
time  the  election  campaign  was  over,  if  I  could  hang  on  until  then, 
that  they  would  in  fact  allow  me  to  drop  out  of  all  full-time  activity, 
give  me  a  chance  to  rest. 

Late  that  fall  I  was  more  disillusioned  than  ever.  I  asked  to  resign. 
Some  of  the  leading  members  of  the  Communist  Party  told  me  that 
I  would  not  be  permitted  to  resign  and  they  made  it  very  explicit 
and  very  clear  to  me.  From  that  time  on  I  made  up  my  mind  that  I 
was  going  to  bide  my  time  and  I  was  going  to  find  a  way  to  get 
out  of  the  party.  I  was  going  to  get  out  on  my  own  power,  and  I 
did. 

In  1936,  when  I  went  on  the  road  for  the  Motion  Picture  Artists' 
Committee,  I  thought  this  was  my  opportunity.  However,  I  didn't 
reckon  with  the  leadership  of  the  Communist  Party.  The  minute  I 
came  back  from  this  trip  I  was  again  surrounded  by  the  leadership. 
I  supposed  they  sensed  my  defection  and  I  was  made  a  branch  organ- 
izer of  the  forty-fourth  assembly  district  branch.  This  was  not  a 
full-time  position.  It  was  a  branch  that  had  at  that  time  about  80 
members.  I  functioned  here  until  February  of  1939  when  the  North 
American  Committee  to  Aid  Spanish  Democracy,  later  known  as  the 
Spanish  Refugee  Committee — in  fact,  it  was  known  as  that  in  1938  and 
1939,  asked  me  to  become  the  west  coast  organizer  for  it  and  to  re- 
organize and  to  reactivate  the  local  offices  they  had  throughout  the 
west  coast,  which  had  fallen  on  evil  days.  The  interest  in  Spain,  and 
particularly  in  the  plight  of  the  refugees,  was  on  the  wane.  I  still 
honestly  believed  that  some  help  could  be  given  to  these  people.  I 
realize  now  that  I  was  victimized  along  with  those  who  donated  their 
funds,  but  I  didn't  know  it  at  the  time.  I  did  see  in  this  an  oppor- 
tunity to  leave  the  party. 

I  took  to  the  road  in  a  car,  February  14,  1939,  and  from  that  day 
to  this  I  have  not  paid  a  dime  to  the  Communist  Party  and  never 
intend  to.  I  have  never  been  in  a  Communist  Party  meeting  since 
February  14,  1939,  nor  have  I  taken  direction  or  dictation  from  any 
Communist  Party  functionary  or  leader. 


1442  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION- PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Hcwever,  I  will  say  this,  that  when  I  broke  my  organizational  ties 
with  the  party,  I  did  not  break  all  of  my  idealogical  ties,  and  this  is 
a  problem  that  every  Communist  has  to  go  through  before  he  can  get 
out  of  the  party.  I  recommend  to  the  Communists  today  that  are 
here  and  that  are  looking  for  a  way  out,  and  I  am  sure  some  of  them 
are,  I  would  point  out  to  them  today  that  their  comrades  can't  watch 
them  all  the  time ;  that  you  can  go  to  the  public  library  and  you  can 
get  the  other  side  of  the  story — I  did.  You  can  read  Freda  Utley's 
moving  book,  The  Dream  That  Was  Ours,  that  showed  how  the  Com- 
munist Party  betrayed  her  and  how  they  betrayed  the  working  class. 
You  can  read  that  in  the  private  of  your  room.  You  can  read  Eugene 
Lyons'  numerous  books  exposing  communism.  If  there  ever  was  a 
man  that  can  expose  communism  it  is  Eugene  Lyons,  because  he  at 
one  time  had  a  dream.  He,  too,  was  an  idealist.  He  went  to  Moscow, 
he  was  a  correspondent  there  for  many,  many  years,  and  rapidly  he 
was  disillusioned  at  the  brutality  that  he  saw,  at  the  lies  that  he  lis- 
tened to.  As  a  result  he  has  written  books  that  are  documented  so 
that  nobody  but  an  ignoramus  can  deny  that  they  are  facts. 

This  is  the  wav  I  got  out  of  the  Communist  Partv.  I  had  to  make 
an  organizational  break  and  then  I  had  to  make  an  idealogical  break. 
The  organizational  break  had  to  come  first  and  then  I  had  to  have 
time  to  once  more  think  freely.  You  don't  think  in  the  Communist 
Party,  you  surrender  your  right  to  think.  You  put  your  right  to 
think  in  hock  to  Stalin,  and  you  pay  usurious  interest  all  the  time 
your  right  to  think  is  in  hock.  I  think  it  is  the  surest  kind  of  hypoc- 
risy that  these  Communists  picketing  out  here  today  talk  about  this 
committee  denying  them  the  right  to  think.  They  haven't  got  any 
right  to  think,  they  gave  it  to  Stalin.  What  are  they  talking  about  I 
This  is  sheer  nonsense.  They  can't  make  a  move,  they  can't  open  their 
mouths  until  they  get  the  party  line.  The  party  line  is  one  thing  to- 
day and  the  party  line  is  another  thing  tomorrow.  They  have  en- 
slaved themselves,  no  committee  has  enslaved  them.  This  Nation  has 
not  enslaved  them  or  denied  them  their  freedom.  They  sold  their 
freedom  years  ago  when  they  signed  that  little  application  card.  The 
only  way  they  can  get  it  back  is  to  terminate  their  association  with  a 
subversive  and  anti-American  organization. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  made  your  break  before  Korea,  didn't  you  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  did.  I  made  my  break  before  the  Hitler- Stalin  pact. 
However,  1  was  still  with  the  Spanish  Refugee  Committee  and  I  lis- 
tened to  some  of  the  Communists,  trying  to  reconcile  it.  It  was  very 
amusing. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  view  of  the  duty  of  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  since  Korea? 

Mr.  Ashe.  The  duty  of  a  Communist  Party  member  is  not  only 
since  Korea,  but  at  all  times  and  under  all  conditions  to  act  as  a  disci- 
plined Communist  Party  member.  I  don't  think  I  need  to  tell  the 
comrades  in  the  room  that,  they  know  it.  And  that  discipline  includes 
looking  out  first,  last,  and  always  for  the  interest  of  the  Soviet  Union 
to  the  exclusion  of  any  conflicting  interests  of  their  own  country.  They 
don't  hesitate  to  do  it  but  they  like  to  do  it  in  the  dark. 

Mr  Tavenner.  In  the  course  of  your  vast  experience  as  a  function- 
ary in  the  Communist  Party,  what  was  the  practice  with  reference 
to  the 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1443 

(Because  of  an  exploding  flash  bulb  there  was  a  slight  interruption 

in  the  proceeding.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  was  about  to  ask  you,  Mr.  Ashe,  that  during  the 
course  of  your  vast  experience  as  a  functionary  in  the  Communist 
Party,  what  was  taught  the  membership  with  regard  to  the  use  of  force 
and  violence 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  will  be  glad  to  explain  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  the  accomplishment  of  the  ultimate  purposes  of 

the  party  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  The  Communist  Party,  it  must  be  clear,  on  the  occasion 
when  I  attended  this  one  meeting  at  a  beginners'  class,  they  had  a 
teacher  there  who  himself  was  not  too  clear  upon  the  question  of  force 
and  violence.  It  was  rather  amusing  to  me  because  I  was  going  there 
to  learn.  So  when  this  question  came  up  he  appealed  to  me  to  explain 
to  the  comrades,  and  1  will  try  to  explain  to  you  as  best  I  can. 

As  I  recall  it,  it  is  15  years  ago  now,  the  explanation  was  that  the 
Communist  Party  does  not  believe  in  the  use  of  force  and  Violence. 
The  Communist  Party,  vanguard  of  the  working  class,  also  the  rear 
guard — the  Communist  Party,  the  vanguard  of  the  working  class,  will 
lead  the  workers  to  the  point  where  the  capitalist  class  in  dismay — 
capitalist  class,  of  course,  means  this  country,  it  doesn't  mean  a  class, 
this  is  just  Communist  double  talk — the  capitalist  class  in  its  effort  to 
preserve  itself  will  use  force  and  violence  to  crush  the  movement  of  the 
working  class.  At  this  point  we  Communists  will  use  force  and  vio- 
lence to  insure  that  our  gains  are  not  lost.  This  is  the  way  they  explain 
force  and  violence,  but  the  leadership  knows  better.  This  is  just  for 
public  consumption.  And  any  Communist  in  this  room  that  doesn't 
know  that  the  Communist  Party  believes  in  the  use  of  force  and  vio- 
lence to  overthrow  our  Government  better  get  out  of  the  party  awfully 
fast,  because  that  is  exactly  what  the  Communist  Party  stands  for  and 
always  has  stood  for.  You  can  go  back  to  your  Communist  Party 
classics  and  you  can  get  chapter  and  verse  on  it  in  a  dozen  different 
places.  The  Communist  Party  has  never  repudiated  those  classics. 
They  surreptitiously  use  them  yet  for  their  guidance,  ana  for  the  coun- 
sel that  it  gives  the  Communist  Party  leadership. 

The  Communist  Party  takes  the  position  that  they  cannot  come  to 
power  except  that  they  use  force  and  violence  to  crush  the  Government 
that  stands  in  its  way.  They  uproot  the  courts,  they  throw  out  the 
Constitution,  including  the  first  and  fifth  amendment  behind  which 
the  Communists  are  now  hiding.  They  infiltrate  and  take  over  the 
Army  and  the  Navy  with  new  leaders  and  throw  out  the  old.  They 
root  out  every  last  semblance  of  any  leadership  that  could  conceiv- 
ably be  considered  as  having  any  remnants  or  any  feelings  of  sym- 
pathy for  so-called  bourgeois  democracy.  They  feel  they  have  to 
have'  a  violent  revolution  in  order  to  purge  the  country  of  the  so- 
called  unreliable  elements,  which  actually  are  the  loyal  elements  who 
are  committed  to  defending  our  present  system  of  government.  This 
is  the  Communist  Party  position  on  force  and  violence  and  they 
can't  deny  it.     It's  in  the  record. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Ashe,  do  you  have  anything  further  you  desire 
to  say  with  regard  to  the  circumstances  under  which  you  severed 
your  connections  with  the  Communist  Party,  or  have  you  explained 
that  as  fully  as  you  desire  ? 

81595 — 51 — pt.  4 3 


1444  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  I  would  like  to  say  that  I  severed  my  connection 
voluntarily.  I  was  not  expelled.  I  was  presumably  acceptable  as 
a  Communist  Party  member  right  up  to  the  last,  in  fact  there  was 
considerable  ignorance  as  to  what  my  status  was.  As  late  as  1943 
or  1944  some  of  the  rank  and  file  comrades  who  had  known  me 
downtown  took  it  for  granted  that  I  was  still  a  party  member.  I 
very  quickly  disabused  them  of  that. 

I  would  like  to  say  that  I  got  out  because  of  a  developing  disillu- 
sionment over  a  period  of  years.  The  party  has  no  least  semblance 
of  democracy,  despite  its  protestations. 

It  is  a  monolithic  party  from  top  to  bottom;  a  single  block  of 
stone.  The  party  is  hard  and  unyielding  and  unconscionable.  The 
party  members  know  it.  They  subscribe  to  the  attitude  that  the 
end  justifies  the  means.  From  almost  the  outset  I  was  in  some  posi- 
tion of  leadership  and  responsibility  and,  unlike  many,  many  people 
who  have  been  only  rank  and  file  members  or  who  have  been  isolated 
in  limitative  activity,  they,  unlike  myself,  have  not  had  an  oppor- 
tunity to  get  their  eyes  open  and  see  what  is  going  on  in  the  leader- 
ship, and  to  see  the  naked  brutality  of  the  leadership.  I  suppose 
some  of  them  never  see  this.  Even  during  the  period  when  I  was 
most  zealous  in  the  party,  I  never  lost  my  belief  in  the  essential 
dignity  of  the  individual,  and  this  presented  one  of  the  difficulties 
that  I  was  always  confronted  with  in  the  party,  whether  it  was  a 
section  organizer  or  as  a  member  of  the  disciplinary  committee,  to 
see  the  sheer  brutality,  the  lack  of  human  understanding  by  one 
comrade  to  another. 

I  have  seen  them  almost  like  wolves  tearing  individuals  down  who, 
the  day  before,  they  had  called  friends.  You  surrender  all  indepen- 
dent thought,  all  independent  action  to  those  higher  in  the  chain  of 
command.  Discipline  is  more  important  in  the  party  than  being 
right.  I  mean  that  literally.  You  can  make  mistakes ;  they  will  for- 
give you,  but  if  you  are  right  and  your  correct  position  is  not  recog- 
nized yet  as  a^correct  position,  then  you  are  doing  violence  to  the  dis- 
cipline of  the  party.  If,  later,  the  position  is  corrected  and  you  are 
proven  to  be  correct,  they  still  mistrust  you  because  you  have  broken 
discipline.  This  is  more  important  than  being  correct.  I  imagine  a 
good  many  Communists  can  testify  to  this  fact. 

Some  of  the  Communists  had  a  positive  genuis  for  self-criticism  to 
a  point  of  indecency.  They  actually  reveled  in  seeking  out  leaders 
and  confessing  to  these  leaders  their  errors  and  their  sins  of  omission 
and  commission.  I,  for  a  long  time,  thought  that  this  would  be  a  good 
subject  for  psychiatrists.  The  party  is  entirely  humorless — and  I 
think  this  is  a  significant  thing — completely  devoid  of  any  remnant 
of  a  sense  of  humor.  I  remember  one  time  going  to  a  county  conven- 
tion, and  we  met  on  a  street  corner,  the  delegates,  and  we  were  to  be 
picked  up.  So  we  stood  on  the  corner  of  Hollywood — no,  Santa  Mon- 
ica Boulevard  and  Vine  Street.  I  don't  know  of  any  more  conspicu- 
ous place  we  could  have  picked,  and  we  waited  and  we  waited  and  we 
waited  for  about  2  or  ?>  hours,  and  finally  Ave  were  picked  up. 

We  got  into  a  car  and  went  to  the  convention.  On  the  way  to  the 
convention  I  observed  to  some  of  the  other  comrades  that  I  suppose 
that  nobody  knew  where  the  convention  was  except  Red  Hines,  which 
was  literally  true.     Red  Hines  did  know  where  it  was.     I  was  later 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1445 

criticized  for  this.  No  sense  of  humor.  It  is  astounding.  That  is 
about  all  I  have  to  say. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Ashe — 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  would  like  to  say  one  thing.  During  this  period  when 
I  was  working  my  way  out  of  the  party  after  I  learned  beyond  any 
shadow  of  a  doubt  that  there  were  huge  concentration  camps  in  the 
interior  of  the  Soviet  Union,  in  which  workers  were  imprisoned  be- 
cause they  had  been  suspected  of  thinking,  I  couldn't  help  but  wonder 
what  one  of  these  brooding  workers  would  think  behind  these  stock- 
ades as  he  contemplated,  the  Marxist  admonition : 

Workers  of  the  world,  unite.  You  will  have  nothing  to  lose  but  your  chains 
and  a  world  to  gain. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That  is  a  quotation,  that  is  from  the  Manifesto? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Ashe,  I  had  planned  to  ask  you  some  other  gen- 
eral questions,  but  I  believe  members  of  the  committee  will  likely 
cover  them 

Mr.  Ashe.  All  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  So  rather  than  have  the  repetition,  I  believe  that  I 
will  close  my  examination.     That  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  At  the  outset,  I  requested  the  members  of  the  committee 
to  refrain  from  interposing  questions  during  the  conduct  of  the  exami- 
nation by  counsel  and  assured  them  that  I  would  give  each  an  oppor- 
tunity in  turn  to  ask  such  pertinent  questions  as  they  desire,  but  since 
the  hour  of  lunch  is  approaching,  I  think  at  this  time  I  will  withhold 
the  examination  by  the  individual  members  until  we  return  from 
lunch,  and  the  committee  will  now  take  a  recess  until  half  past  1 
o'clock. 

( Whereupon,  at  the  hour  of  12 :  25  p.  m.,  an  adjournment  was  taken 
in  the  above  proceedings  until  the  hour  of  1 :  30  p.  m.  of  the  same  day.) 

afternoon  session 

(Whereupon  at  the  hour  of  1 :  30  p.  m.  of  the  same  day,  the  pro- 
ceedings were  resumed,  the  same  members  being  present.) 

TESTIMONY  OF  HAROLD  J.  ASHE— Resumed 

Mr.  Wood.  Let  the  committee  be  in  order.  Mr.  Counsel,  are  you 
ready  to  proceed  or  do  you  desire  any  further  questioning  yourself  of 
the  witness  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  think  not,  if  it  please  Your  Honor. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  yield  to  the  members  of  the  committee.  Mr.  Walter 
of  Pennsylvania. 

Mr.  Walter.  Mr.  Ashe,  during  the  course  of  your  testimony  you 
mentioned  the  names  of  various  people  who  are  connected  with  the 
labor  movement  as  having  been  members  of  the  Communist  Party, 
and  among  them  was  Joseph  Tracy,  Railroad  Brotherhood,  the  head 
of  the  fisherman's  union,  the  business  agent  for  the  waiters'  union, 
and  Don  Healy,  of  the  painters'  union.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not 
those  individuals  are  still  actively  engaged  in  union  activities  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  would  have  no  way  of  knowing  about  some  of  them. 
In  the  case  of  the  first  person  you  mentioned,  the  correct  name  is  Jim 
Tracy. 


1446  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Walter.  Jim  Tracy ;  yes. 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  don't  know  whether  at  that  time  he  was  a  member  of 
any  union  or  whether  he  was  merely  assigned  by  the  party  to  infil- 
trate into  the  railroad  brotherhoods  by  making  contact  with  rank-and- 
file  railroad  workers.  I  have  no  knowledge  as  to  whether  he  was 
actually  a  railroad  worker  himself  or  not.  In  the  case  of  Jeff  Kibre, 
1  have  seen  his  name  periodically  in  local  newspapers  in  connection 
with  fishermen's  union  activity. 

Mr.  Walter.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  the  rank  and  file  of  these 
several  unions  are  aware  of  the  fact  that  their  leaders  are  members 
of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  In  the  case  of  the  fishermen's  union,  I  think  they  would 
be  singularly  stupid  if  they  didn't  know. 

Mr.  Walter.  Mr.  Ashe,  in  your  judgment,  should  the  Congress 
enact  a  law  making  membership  in  the  Communist  Party  illegal  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  didn't  get  the  question,  sir. 

Mr.  Walter.  Do  you  believe  that  the  Congress  of  the  United  States 
should  enact  legislation  making  it  illegal  to  be  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  certainly  do. 

Mr.  Walter.  Have  you  given  very  much  thought  to  this  question  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  have  given  a  very  great  deal  of  thought  to  it  because, 
having  been  a  Communist,  I  think  I  have  a  little  bit  different  under- 
standing of  the  Communist  Party  and  the  Communist  conspiracy  than 
many  non-Communists,  anti-Communists  who  have  felt  that  the  Com- 
munist Party  should  not  be  outlawed.  I  think  that  two  immediate 
courses  of  action  should  be  taken  against  the  Communist  Party. 
First,  1  think  that  they  should  be  denied  the  use  of  the  mails.  I  think 
there  Is  something  fundamentally  wrong  in  this  country,  when  we  are 
fighting  an  enemy  in  Korea,  which  enemy  has  allies  in  our  own  midst 
and  which  party,  the  Communist  Party,  is  virtually,  in  effect,  being 
subsidized  by  the  United  States  Government  in  the  form  of  second- 
class  mailing  privileges.  I  think  this  is  an  outrage.  I  know  that 
if  the  second-class  mailing  privileges  were  taken  away  from  the  Com- 
munist Party,  it  would  strike  a  body  blow  from  which  it  would  be 
almost  impossible  for  it  to  recover.  The  rank  and  file  Communist 
Party  members,  and  I  have  known  them  for  years — I  know  their 
mental  capacity — would  be  unable  to  follow  the  Communist  Party 
line  if  it  were  not  disseminated  to  them  in  newspapers  that  are  going 
freely  through  the  mails  to  them.  I  think  that  there  is  a  funda- 
mental contradiction  here  in  this  country  when,  on  one  hand,  we 
consider  the  Communists  a  subversive  organization,  yet  on  the  other 
hand  we  permit  them  not  only  the  use  of  the  mails  but  give  them 
special  mailing  privileges,  mind  you,  second-class  mailing  privileges, 
which  amount  to  permitting  their  subversive  literature  to  go  through 
the  mails  at  practically  no  cost  to  them.  It  is  a  real  subsidy  to  them, 
and  that  is  what  our  United  States  Government  is  doing,  I  regret  to 
say. 

In  the  second  place,  I  think  that  the  Communist  Party  should  be 
outlawed  on  the  basis — and  I  would  like  to  consult  my  notes  here, 
because  I  would  to  make  this  very  clear — on  the  basis  that  the  Com- 
munist Party  in  fact  is  a  subversive,  conspiratorial — is  a  conspira- 
torial agent  of  a  foreign  government.  I  think  we  should  end  once 
and  for  all  that  it  is  a  legitimate  American  political  party  with  legiti- 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1447 

mate  American  political  aims  advanced  only  in  the  arena  of  political 
action.  I  think  the  time  for  talk  is  past.  Outlawing  the  party  will 
smash  it  as  an  effective  tool  of  the  Soviet  Union,  which  it  is.  If 
Americans  generally  do  not  know,  the  Communists  do  know  that  out- 
lawing the  party  will  irreparably  cripple  it.  It  will  be  so  preoccupied 
with  its  own  internal  security  measures  it  will  have  little  time  for 
anything  else,  including  subversive  activity.  All  the  past  history  of 
the  Communist  Party  in  its  periods  of  illegality  point  to  this  conclu- 
sion, both  in  this  country  and  in  Europe,  Recruiting  of  new  mem- 
bers will  be  almost  impossible.  All  members  will  die,  and  the  party 
will  wither  on  the  vine.  Its  sources  of  money  will  dry  up  and  the 
lunatic  fringe  will  disappear.  I  think  there  is  something  fantastic, 
if  not  worse,  in  the  fact  that  thousands  of  our  men  have  died  and  are 
dying  in  Korea  in  a  war  against  an  international  Communist  enemy, 
yet  we  mealy-mouth  about  our  own  domestic  branch  of  that  enemy. 
Is  it  any  wonder  that  many  Americans,  honest  Americans,  are  con- 
fused? 

It  lurs  been  argued  that  outlawing  the  party  would  drive  it  under- 
ground. I  agree— 6  feet  underground,  and  without  benefit  of  clergy, 
except,  perhaps,  a  few  who  have  betrayed  their  Christian  teachings 
and  are  leading  their  trusting  flocks  out  of  the  promised  land. 

It  has  been  suggested  that  outlawing  the  party  will  make  martyrs 
of  Communists.  According  to  the  logic  of  this  argument — and  I  think 
it  has  been  advanced  before  this  committee — the  logic  of  this  group 
is  that  we  should  wipe  off  the  statute,  books  laws  denning  murder  as 
a  crime.  I  believe  some  murderers  have  on  occasion  been  cast  in  the 
role  of  martyrs.  How  stupid  and  illogical  can  we  become  in  defend- 
ing, or  failing  to  defend  ourselves  from  the  most  dangerous  enemy 
our  Nation  has  ever  faced — an  enemy  without  aided  by  conspiratorial 
allies  within  ? 

If  Americans  do  not  understand  the  body  blow  that  outlawing  the 
Communist  Party  would  be  to  this  treasonable  group,  be  assured  that 
the  Communists  are  in  no  doubt  about  it.  Temporizing  and  vacilla- 
tion by  the  enemies  of  communism  constitutes  giving  unwitting  aid 
and  comfort  to  the  Communists.  The  recent  history  of  the  countries 
now7  behind  the  iron  curtain  is  a  lesson  from  which  we  must  profit, 
and  fast,  It  is  suggested  that  if  the  party  is  not  outlawed  it  can  be 
watched.  Actually  it  is  underground  for  all  practical  purposes  right 
now.  Why  not  legalize  that  fact?  You  cannot  watch  Communists, 
you  can't  control  them ;  you  must  outlaw  them.  Let's  be  consistent, 
let's  act  as  realists.  Outlaw  the  party  now.  Tomorrow7  may  be  too 
late  for  us,  as  it  is  already  too  late  for  the  other  once  free  peoples  who 
hesitated  in  taking  firm  action  and  by  their  hesitation  are  now  lost. 

Mr.  Walter.  Mr.  Ashe,  what  was  the  maximum  number  of  Com- 
munists in  this  area  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  During  my  period  ? 

Mr.  Walter.  Yes. 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  would  say  1,500. 

Mr.  Walter.  That  is  in  the  Los  Angeles  area  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That  is  in  Los  Angeles  County.  At  that  time  about  2,600 
to  3,000  in  the  State, 

Mr.  Walter.  That  is  all,  Mr.  Wood. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle  of  California. 


1448  COMMUNISM   IN   MOl  ION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Ashe,  what  sort  of  pay  scale  do  the  folks  who  were 
employed  in  the  Communist  Party  receive  as  compared  with  other 
hired  people;  for  instance,  clerks?  Are  they  paid  a  standard  scale, 
or  a  standard  wage  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  wouldn't  call  it  standard.  It  was  a  scab  wage,  non- 
union wage.  I  believe  when  I  was  in  it  the  going  wage,  when  you 
collected  it,  was  something  like  $10  a  week,  but  you  didn't  always  get  it. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Doesn't  the  Communist  Party  always  have  sufficient 
money  to  pay  its  employees  well  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Yes.    But  it  has  never  been  its  policy  to  pay  them  well. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  mean,  then 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  am  not  too  clear  as  to  why  this  is,  unless  it  is  for  the 
purpose  of  testing  the  leadership  to  see  how  much  abuse  they  can  take. 
But  some  of  them  have  great  capacity  for  that. 

Mr.  Doyle.  In  your  testimony  you  barely  mentioned  the  subject  of 
Communist  fronts.  Do  you  have  anything  to  add  to  that  ?  How  were 
they  organized,  what  is  the  purpose  of  forming  Communist  fronts  and 
how  do  you  designate  their  value,  if  any,  to  the  Communist  program  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Communist  front,  or  united  front,  was  first  formulated, 
I  believe,  in  1933  at  the  Communist  International.  It  was  brought 
down  to  the  sister  parties,  including  the  Communist  Party  in  this 
country,  in  late  1933  or  1934.  I  believe  a  man  by  the  name  of  Dimitrov 
wrote  on  it,  at  considerable  length,  in  a  great  many  pamphlets  on  the 
subject  which  were  distributed.   The  united  front — - — 

Mr.  Doyle.  Let  me  interrupt  you.  I  wasn't  referring  to  that  so 
much  as  I  was  the  ordinary  Communist  front  that  is  organized  in 
different  communities. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That  is  what  I  am  getting  to.  This  was  an  established 
policy  of  the  party,  differentiating  from  an  earlier  period  when  they 
were  very  sectarian.  This  was  a  new  policy  to  penetrate  broader  or- 
ganizations than  they  had  in  the  past  been  able  to  infiltrate.  The 
united  front  was  a  weapon  by  which  they  could  draw  to  them,  surround 
themselves  with,  noncommunist  elements — elements  that  would  act  as 
protective  coloration  for  them  in  certain  basic  united  front  activities. 
In  other  words,  in  the  unemployment  field  the  Communists  would  set 
up  a  united  front  committee  to  attain  certain  minimum  objectives  in 
the  field  of  unemployment.  Then  they  would  have  people  come  as 
delegates  from  as  broad  a  representative  group  of  organizations  as 
they  could,  including  noncommunist  labor  unions,  churches,  fraternal 
organizations,  youth  groups  of  every  conceivable  kind.  Sometimes 
these  delegates  would  themselves  be-the  Communists  that  were  planted 
in  these  organizations  and  sometimes  they  would  be  innocents  who 
had  no  conception  whatever  as  to  who  was  pulling  the  strings. 

Mr.  Doyle.  During  your  time  of  leadership  in  the  Communist  Party 
did  the  Communist  Party,  to  your  knowledge,  employ  and  pay  peo- 
ple to  develop  these  Communist  fronts  in  California?  I  mean,  did 
they  have  paid  workers  assigned  to  that  particular  duty  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Generally  not.  Most  of  them  were  voluntary  workers. 
There  were  very  few  paid  functionaries  in  the  party  in  California  at 
that  time. 

Mr.  Doyle.  When  you  say  volunteer  workers,  would  you  say  a  large 
percentage  of  the  Communist  Party  in  California  were  really  volun- 
teer workers,  giving  a  good  deal  of  their  time? 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1449 

Mr.  Ashe.  Oh,  yes.  The  overwhelming  part  of  them  were  at  all 
times,  and  I  believe  to  this  day. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  front  organization  do  you  now  have  in  mind, 
particularly  in  southern  California? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  I  have  in  mind  specifically  a  united  front  set-up, 
I  believe  I  was  chairman  of  it,  dedicated  to  fighting  against  war  and 
fascism.  There  was  another  united  front  having  to  do  with — this 
was  immediately  after  the  EPIC  campaign  of  1934 — I  believe  there 
was  one  involving  Production  for  Use  Congress,  as  they  called  it. 
The  Communist  Party  sent  delegates  there.  There  was  some  protest 
from  the  floor  as  to  the  presence  of  Communist  delegates.  I  was  one 
of  them,  and  there  were  10  of  us  from  the  Communist  Party.  We 
very  graciously  withdrew  from  the  conference  and  left  behind  us  a 
very  large  number  of  Communists  who  were  not  known  as  such  but 
who  were  there  as  delegates  representing  other  groups.  I  mean  this  is 
a,  maneuver  of  the  party. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Thank  you  very  much.  I  notice  now  you  mentioned 
your  professional  unit  in  the  Communist  Party.  You  mentioned  at- 
torneys, dentists,  and  newspapermen. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  am  an  attorney  at  law.  I  would  be  interested  in  ask- 
ing you  this  question:  On  what  basis  could  you  recruit  members 
of  the  California  bar  to  join  an  outfit  that  they  knew  was  illegal? 
How  did  they  explain  to  you  their  willingness  to  become  members 
of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  never  asked  them  to  explain  their  willingness.  It  was 
no  concern  of  mine  what  their  problem  was  as  members  of  the  bar, 
or  how  they  reconciled  it.  It  was  my  problem  to  get  them  in,  and 
I  did  help  to  get  them  in.     I  think 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  possible  inducement  could  you  make  to  a  member 
of  the  California  bar  to  join  an  illegal  outfit?  What  arguments  did 
you  use? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  don't  recall  now.  I  presume  I  made  substantially  the 
same  argument  that  I  made  to  newspapermen  and  any  number  of  other 
people  that  I  recruited. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Can  you  give  me  a  sample,  shortly,  of  the  arguments 
that  you  used  to  these  professional  men? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That  the  Communist  Party  was  working  for  the  best 
interests  of  the  working  class,  that  it  was  against  war  and  fascism, 
which  at  that  time  very  many  liberal  people  were  preoccupied  with 
and  considered  it  a  real  threat.  I  don't  recall  what  else.  This  is 
about  15  years  ago. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  realize  it.  You  mentioned  one  Jeff  Kibre,  and  you 
said,  as  I  remember  it,  that  you  thought  that  he  either  was  or  is  with 
a  fisherman's  union  of  San  Pedro. 

Mr.  Ashe.  To  the  best  of  my  knowledge,  that's  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  A  branch  of  the  Harry  Bridges  union. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  From  what  you  know  of  him,  would  you  give  it  as  your 
opinion  that  he  still  would  be  active  in  the  Communist  program  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  feel  that  that  is  a  reasonable  assumption,  considering 
the  nature  of  the  union  that  he  heads  up.  This  is  one  of  the  unions 
that  I  believe  was  expelled  by  the  CIO  in  its  effort  to  purge  itself  of 


1450  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Communists.  I  think  it  is  a  fair  conclusion  that  he  is  still  in,  in  view 
of  the  fact  that  I  know  he  was  in. 

Mr.  Doyle.  This  morning  you  didn't  have  time  to  go  into  the  subject 
very  much  of  what  campaign,  if  any,  the  Communist  Party  had  while 
you  were  in  it  to  try  to  take  over  control  of  any  of  the  political  parties 
in  our  State.  Was  there  any  such  program,  to  put  into  positions  of 
leadership  in  any  of  these  parties,  other  than  in  the  Communist  Party, 
any  leadership  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  will  have  to  go  back  a  little  to  lay  a  basis  for  it.  In 
1934  Upton  Sinclair  ran  for  governor  on  the  Democratic  ticket  with 
his  EPIC  movement.  The  Communist  Party  severely  criticized  the 
EPIC  movement,  later  took  another  position,  finally  reversed  itself 
and  came  to  a  third  position;  namely,  that  the  Communist  Party 
should  infiltrate  the  EPIC  club — they  had  local  clubs — should  in- 
filtrate these  clubs  and  help  to  control  them  and,  incidentally,  do 
Communits  Party  recruiting  in  this.  However,  this  final  decision  was 
made  solely  that  it  had  no  practical  effect  on  Mr.  Sinclair's  campaign. 
However,  the  following  spring — I  would  say  about  February,  pos- 
sibly— the  EPIC's  had  a  post  mortem  convention  at  the  A.  F.  of  L. 
Labor  Temple,  and  at  that  time  the  Communists  were  beginning  to 
infiltrate  into  the  EPIC  movement.  I  remember  the  EPIC  movement 
expressed  itself  through  the  Democratic  Party.  From  then  on  the 
Communists  made  considerable  headway  in  Democratic  clubs.  I  have 
not  too  much  actual  knowledge  of  this  except  insofar  as  it  was  a  matter 
of  discussion  in  the  Communist  Party  committee  meetings.  I  do 
know  they  made  a  considerable  amount  of  headway,  but  I  am  not  in 
any  position  to  name  names  at  this  late  date.  I  do  know,  without 
any  shadow  of  doubt,  that  they  did  make  headway. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  mentioned  a  Syd  Birke,  B-i-r-k-e.  I  noticed  that 
you  said  that  was  a  party  name,  B-i-r-k-e  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  And  that  Berkowitz  was  his  real  name  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  do  you  mean  by  a  party  name  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  A  party  name  is  a  name — not  in  all  instances,  but  in 
many  instances  people  joining  the  Communist  Party  will,  upon 
their  application  card,  select  another  name  by  which  they  will  be 
known  in  the  party  or,  more  often,  by  which  the  party  card  will  be 
issued.  Now,  this  may  sound  a  little  confusing.  In  some  instances 
a  person  will  be  consistent  in  taking  a  party  name  and  will  use  the 
party  name  in  every  sense  of  the  word.  John  Broman  is  an  example. 
He  is  better  known  today  as  John  Broman  than  he  is  his  real  name, 
Jack  Wilson.  In  other  words,  he  took  this  party  name,  but  I  have 
always  been  known  as  an  open  party  member  and  used  my  real  name 
in  speaking  on  behalf  of  the  Communist  Party,  once  I  came  out  into  the 
open. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  is  a  fictitious  name  generally  encouraged  for 
party  members  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  At  the  time  I  came  in  it  was ;  yes.  It  was  considered  a 
security  measure. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Security  against  what  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Security  against  being  exposed  as  a  Communist  Party 
member. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  notice  you  testified  as  to  Emil  Freedman — — 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1451 

Mr.  Ashe.  Freed. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Freed  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  think  you  said  that  he  pushed  his  way  to  a  squad  car 
and  they  finally  obliged  him ;  this  was  the  first  time  he  made  a  martyr 
of  himself. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct.  He  was  a  rather  amusing  character  in 
the  party  at  the  time  I  was  there. 

Mr.  Doyle.  It  is  a  general  thing  in  the  Communist  Party  member- 
ship that  they  try  to  make  martyrs  of  themselves? 

Mr.  Ashe.  No;  it  is  not.  Not  at  that  time.  The  policy  was,  of 
course,  to  not  flinch  before  the  police  if  we  had  tangled  with  the 
police,  which  we  did  at  that  time,  but  at  the  same  time  it  was  not 
the  party  policy,  nor  is  it  the  policy  of  the  International  Labor  De- 
fense, to  seek  out  unnecessary  arrests  which  would  involve  the  legal 
defense  of  people  M*ho  otherwise  wouldn't  have  to  be  defended.  It 
is  an  expensive  procedure.  Occasionally  they  would  make  an  issue 
for  purposes  of  propaganda,  but  he  was  certainly  under  no  such  in- 
struction, and  it  was  a  case  of  individual  action  on  his  part,  and  he 
was  criticized  for  it. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  notice  when  you  listed  the  five  objectives  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  in  Los  Angeles  County  and  in  California,  so  far  as  Hol- 
lywood was  concerned,  the  last  one  you  listed,  I  believe,  or  identified, 
was  in  the  sense  of  a  criticism,  I  took  it,  or  a  suggestion  that  there  was 
lack  of  vigilance  on  the  part  of  anti-Communists 

Mr.  Ashe.  That  is  true. 

Mr.  Doyle.  As  to  the  real  hazard.  Well,  now,  what  could  folks  do 
who  want  to  smoke  out  subversive  people  in  subversive  programs  to 
be  more  vigilant  ?    What  from  a  practical  viewpoint  might  be  done? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  my  criticism  was  leveled  in  a  period  in  1934.  I 
certainly  don't  think  it  holds  true  today  so  far  as  the  motion-picture 
industry  is  concerned.  I  do  think  that  too  many  people  in  this  coun- 
try are  asleep  at  the  switch.  Too  many  people  do  not  know  what 
communism  is.  They  haven't  even  got  a  working  knowledge  of  it. 
They  couldn't  define  it.  They  don't  know  what  its  objectives  are,  and 
from  this  vague  ignorance  they  are  in  no  position  to  cope  with  it. 
After  all,  a  doctor  that  knows  nothing  about  a  certain  disease,  I  am 
fearful  he  wouldn't  know  much  about  isolating  it. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Have  you  any  program  of  education  to  recommend? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Not  offhand ;  no ;  except  that  I  feel  that  there  is  still  gen- 
erally an  apathetic  attitude  in  this  country  toward  communism.  I 
think  that  its  numerical  strength  misleads  people.  I  think  that  at  the 
present  time  it  is  understood  to  have  40,000  members. 

Mr.  Doyle.  How  do  you  explain  the  large  attendance  in  this  hear- 
ing room  today 

Mr.  Ashe.  This  is  a 

Mr.  Doyle.  If  there  is  apathy  on  the  part  of  the  public  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  am  speaking  of  the  public  generally.  I  think  that  if 
we  could  make  a  poll  here  you  would  find  approximately  two-thirds  of 
these  people  are  members  of  or  sympathizers  of  the  Communist  Party, 
and  you  have  here  a  practical  demonstration  of  a  united  front.  This, 
incidentally,  is  a  very  clear  evidence  of  apathy.  I  don't  know  what 
the  numerical  membership  of  the  Communist  Party  here  is  now,  or 
of  its  sympathizers,  but  I  think  it  is  significant  that  out  of  this  small 


1452  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

membership  they  can  have  half  to  two-thirds  of  the  people  in  this 
room,  and  the  rest  of  the  city  of  Los  Angeles  is  indifferent.  Maybe  a 
few  representatives  of  organizations  are  here,  but 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  noticed  you  specified  that  there  was  a  program  of 
infiltration  into  unions,  and  you  said  "even  to  the  extent  of  paying 
dues;  we  placed  members  in  trade-unions  and  paid  their  dues." 
Would  you  say  to  us  that  it  would  be  your  opinion  that  that  sort  of 
a  program  is  still  going  on  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  don't  think  it  is  necessary  now.  Very  few  people 
are  unemployed.  I  imagine  the  average  Communist  is  making  a 
pretty  fair  livelihood  and  is  able  to  pay  his  own  way  in  his  trade- 
unions,  and  I  imagine  the  party  would  expect  him  to.  In  those  days 
he  could  not.  He  did  not  have  the  money.  The  dues,  the  initiation 
fees  in  some  of  the  A.  F.  of  L.  unions  were  $20,  $30,  $50,  and  $100. 
This  is  a  considerable  sum  of  money  for  an  unemployed  worker  to 
raise  to  get  into  a  union,  especially  if  he  is  not  going  to  work  in  the 
trade. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Our  distinguished  counsel  asked  you  about  the  ques- 
tion of  force  and  violence.  I  am  glad  he  did.  I  want  you  to  help 
me,  if  you  can,  to  get  your  opinion  on  two  Federal  statutes  that  are 
in  existence.  I  am  not  sure  that  you  are  familiar  with  them.  I  refer 
to  Public  Law  831  of  the  Eighty-first  Congress.  We  know  it  as  the 
Subversive  Activities  Control  Act;  and  in  that,  in  section  2,  our 
declaration  of  congressional  policy  states  this : 

As  a  result  of  evidence  adduced  before  various  committees  of  the  Senate 
and  the  House  of  Representatives,  the  Congress  hereby  finds  that  there  exists 
a  world  Communist  movement  which,  in  its  origin,  its  development,  and  its 
present  practice  is  a  world-wide  revolutionary  movement  whose  purpose  is 
by  treachery,  deceit,  sabotage,  terrorism,  and  any  other  means  deemed  neces- 
sary to  establish  a  Communist  totalitarian  dictatorship  in  the  countries  through- 
out the  world  through  the  medium  of  a  world-wide  Communist  organization. 

In  your  judgment  was  that  declaration  by  Congress  in  1950  an 
accurate  appraisement  of  the  condition  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  think  it  is  a  very  restrained  statement. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  do  you  mean  by  "restrained"? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  I  think  I  would  have  stated  it  a  little  more  force- 
fully. 

Mr.  Doyle.  "What  would  you  have  said  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  wouldn't  want  to  formulate  it  offhand.     I  mean 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  are  not  criticizing  Congress,  are  you? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  am  not  criticizing  Congress.  I  think  it  is  a  restrained, 
judicial  statement  of  fact.  I  happen  to  be  sort  of  a  person  that  can 
very  easily  blow  his  top,  and  if  I  didn't  have  microphones  here  I 
would  probably  use  a  little  more  forceful  language  to  characterize  the 
Communist  international  conspiracy.  That  is  the  only  point  I  wish 
to  make. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  now,  that  leads  me  to  this  question:  Under  the 
statute  under  which  this  committee  here  today  is  functioning,  there  is 
this  declaration : 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  as  a  whole,  or  by  subcommittee,  is 
authorized  to  make  from  time  to  time  investigations  :  (1)  The  extent,  character, 
and  objectives  of  un-American  propaganda  in  the  United  States  ;  (2)  the  diffusion 
within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  un-American  propaganda  that  is  in- 
stigated from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic  origin  and  attacks  the  principles 
of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by  the  Constitution ;  and,  lastly,  all 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1453 

other  questions  in  relation  thereto  that  would  aid  Congress  in  making  any  neces- 
sary remedial  legislation. 

Now  I  direct  your  attention  especially  to  the  portion  of  this  statute 
which  assigns  us  to  investigate  subversive  or  "un-American  propa- 
ganda originating  in  foreign  countries.  You  mentioned  that  very 
briefly  this  morning  in  your  testimony.  Am  I  to  understand  you  that 
is  your  considered  opinion  and  that  even  today  there  is  subversive 
propaganda  emanating  from  Soviet  Russia  designed  to  definitely  at- 
tack, if  needs  be,  and  eventually  by  force  our  constitutional  form  of 
government  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  feel  so.  I  couldn't  document  it  for  you  at  the  moment 
because  I  didn't  come  prepared  for  that.  This  gets  back  again  to  the 
point  that  I  make,  that  the  People's  World,  the  Daily  Worker,  New 
Masses  should  be  barred  from  the  mails.  They  are  carriers  of  the 
Communist  International  line  from  day  to  day,  following  all  its 
twists  and  all  its  turns  and  informing  the  comrades  what  to  think 
from  one  day  to  the  next.  The  poor  devils  don't  know  unless  they 
read. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  realize  this,  Mr.  Ashe,  that  I  noticed  a  few  minutes 
ago  when  you  said  that  there  was  confusion,  you  said  that  you  recom- 
mended the  legislating  of  the  Communist  Party  underground  6  feet; 
they  were  already  underground  less  than  that.  I  wonder  to  what 
extent  you  feel,  though,  or  don't  you  recognize  that  it  is  absolutely 
necessary  that  not  only  this  committee,  and  I  am  especially  referring 
to  this  committee — that  this  committee  representing  the  United  States 
Congress  take  into  cognizance  at  all  times  the  fact  that  we  must  do 
nothing  directly  or  indirectly  that  infringes  on  any  constitutional 
rights  of  any  American  citizen. 

You  see  what  I  am  getting  at  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  see  what  you  are  getting  at,  and  I  think 

Mr.  Doyle.  In  other  words,  isn't  it  also  important  that  at  all  times 
a  congressional  committee  stand  in  the  presence  of  the  constitutional 
right  of  any  citizen  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  agree  with  you,  and  I  am  afraid  I  am  going  to  have 
to  make  an  observation  here  to  make  my  point  clear. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  want  you  to,  whatever  your  observation  is. 

Mr.  Ashe.  The  Communist  Party  is  a  conspiratorial  organization. 
It  is  an  alien  organization.  The  Communist  Party  has  as  one  of  its 
basic  tenets  that  there  cannot  be  a  revolutionary  theory  without  revo- 
lutionary action. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  do  you  mean  by  revolutionary  action? 

Mr.  Ashe.  The  violent  ultimate  overthrow  of  this  country  and  any 
other  country  that  stands  in  their  way,  and  this  has  been  taught  for 
years  and  years  and  years  in  the  Communist  Party,  and  every  Com- 
munist in  this  room  knows  it. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  mean  by  that 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  mean  that  this  is  the  thing  that  distinguishes  the 
Communist  Party  from  every  other  party  in  this  country;  that  it 
isn't  a  question  of  stopping  their  freedom  of  thought,  it  is  not  a  ques- 
tion of  stopping  their  freedom  of  speech  or  freedom  of  press  as  such. 
The  thing  is  that  no  Communist  is  a  theorist  unless  he  is  also  an  acti- 
vist, and  that  he  cannot  be  a  good  Communist  unless  he  is  ready  to 
put  his  revolutionary  theory  to  the  test  on  the  barricades,  and  the  Com- 
munists know  this.     Now,  then,  are  you  going  to  allow  the  Commu- 


1454  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

nist  Party  to  agitate  right  up  to  the  day  we  are  on  the  barricades, 
up  to  the  day  when  they,  themselves,  have  decided  that  the  day  has 
come  where  they  have  a  fighting  chance  ?     I  say  "No." 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well, 'then,  are  you  familiar  with  the  decision  by  the 
United  States  Supreme  Court  with  reference  to  the  Smith  Act  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  believe  I  am.  Unfortunately,  I  don't  share  the  views 
of  the  Supreme  Court.    I  am  unhappy  to  say  that. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  now,  in  what  way  do  you  not,  on  the  question  of 
the  Communists? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  think  that  the  Supreme  Court  is  demonstrating  in  this 
country  the  difficulty  of  a  democratic  Nation  to  protect  itself  from 
being  overthrown.  I  think  that  we  are  going  to  have  to  do  some  very 
serious  thinking  about  the  legalism  by  which  the  Communist  Party 
manages  to  be — manages  to  keep  itself  from  being  brought  to  heel. 
The  whole  history  of  all  of  the  other  countries  that  have  gone  behind 
the  iron  curtain  is  a  history  of  vacillation,  of  evasion,  of  hesitation,  of 
fear,  of  talking  about  democratic  rights  until  the  whole  country  has 
lost  all  of  its  democratic  rights  and  the  Communist  Party  is  in  the 
saddle. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Then  you  would  agree  with  the  Supreme  Court,  though, 
in  its  recent  decision  on  at  least  one  point  where  it  declares  that,  in 
substance  and  effect,  it  wasn't  necessary  for  there  to  be  preact  of  vio- 
lence; that  the  encouragement  of  a  preact  of  violence  was  sufficient? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  think  it  had — I  may  be  wrong.  I  think  there  was 
a  question  of  real  and  present  danger,  wasn't  there? 

Mr.  Doyle.  All  right. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  I  say  that  time  is  here  now. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Then  would  you  answer  my  question  by  saying  that  the 
real  and  present  danger  consists  of  a  person  orally  advocating  the 
forceful  overthrow,  or  should  the  person  have  to  do  some  overt  act. 

Mr.  Ashe.  The  advocacy  orally  is  a  part  and  parcel  of,  although  it 
may  precede  and  probably  will  precede,  the  actual  overt  act.  In  other 
words,  you  can't  have  revolution  unless  revolution  is  discussed  and 
unless  tactics  and  strategy  are  worked  out.  This  requires  talking  and 
it  requires  discussion. 

Mr.  Doyle.  May  I  ask  you  one  more  question,  Mr.  Ashe,  or  two  ?  In 
my  study  of  the  statutes  under  which  this  committee  functions,  I  per- 
haps went  an  additional  step  to  try  to  understand  the  meaning  of  the 
word  "subversive"  in  our  statute  which  I  read  to  you,  and  in  studying 
Mr.  Webster's  dictionary  I  found  that  the  term  "subvert"  means — 

to  overthrow ;  to  overturn  ;  to  ruin  utterly ;  to  undermine  the  morals,  allegiance, 
or  faith  of;  to  corrupt. 

Now,  in  view  of  that  defining  of  the  word  "subvert"  by  Webster 
and  Webster's  Dictionary,  do  I  understand  that  your  appraisal  of  the 
Communist  Party  is  that  it  sounds  in  time  to  subvert — in  other  words, 
that  it  is  definitely  the  program  to  try  to  subvert  our  Nation? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Absolutely,  at  all  times. 

Mr.  Doyle.  One  more  question.  We  had  testimony  before  this  com- 
mittee in  Washington  several  months  ago  from  a  former  FBI  agent 
who  had  been  assigned  to  the  duty  of  studying  Communist  cells  in 
certain  parts  of  our  Nation,  and  he  testified  before  us  in  substance 
that  in  his  presence  and  to  his  knowledge — he  had  the  places  in  mind 
and  the  occasions  in  mind — he  heard  conversation  and  discussion  by 
members  of  the  Communist  cells  there  as  to  ways  and  means  in  which 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1455 

they  could  gather  arms  and  ammunition,  if  needs  be,  to  use  in  this 
revolution  against  our  form  of  government. 

Now,  do  I  understand  you  that  the  Communist  Party,  as  you  know 
it  here  in  California,  the  leadership  would  go  to  that  extent,  to  be 
interested  in  gathering  arms  and  ammunition  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  think  so. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  do  think  so  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  know  so. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  did  you  ever  hear  it  discussed  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  In  1934-35  when  I  was  in  the  downtown  section,  I  had 
been  asked  on  numerous  occasions  by  Nat  Praeger,  the  then  chairman 
of  the  disciplinary  committee,  to  supply  personable  women  to  dis- 
tribute a  subversive  paper  called  the  Shipmates'  Voice  on  board  battle- 
ships, cruisers,  and  other  United  States  naval  boats  anchored  off  Long 
Beach  and  San  Pedro.  This  Shipmates'  Voice  was  clearly  an  instru- 
ment by  which  the  Communist  Party  hoped  to  recruit  sailors  into  the 
Communist  Party.  At  a  later  date  I  know  that  the  Communist  Party 
used  good-looking  women  as  decoys  to  entertain  sailors  with  a  view  to 
recruiting  them.  I  don't  know  what  the  results  were,  because  that  was 
not  within  my  province.  I  do  know  it  was  going  on,  because  I  was 
asked  to  supply  some  of  these  girls,  and  I  know  on  one  occasion  I  put 
my  foot  down  and  refused  to  allow  some  16-year-old  YCLers  to  be 
put  to  this  purpose. 

At  the  same  time  the  Communist  Party  was  putting  out  a  sub- 
versive, underground  paper  aimed  at  the  soldiers  who  were  in  the 
Armed  Forces,  trying  to  subvert  them,  trying  to  sew  tlie  seeds  of  dis- 
affection in  their  minds,  exploiting  every  petty  grievance  that  could 
be  found.  And,  of  course,  you  can  always  find  them  in  the  Armed 
Forces.  They  were  following  the  same  pattern  here  as  they  were  in 
the  Navy. 

At  another  period — and  I  can't  recall  the  exact  time — we  were  asked 
to  go  through  our  ranks  very  carefully  and  see  what  men  could  be 
persuaded  to,  or  ordered  to  go  into  the  National  Guard,  the  California 
National  Guard,  and  some  of  them  went  in. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Went  in  for  some  purpose  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  I  don't  think  they  went  in  to  play  poker.  They 
went  in  for  the  precise  purpose  of  getting  their  hands  on  guns,  getting 
into  positions  of  leadership,  even  if  it  was  only  that  of  a  noncommis- 
sioned officer,  and  awaiting  the  time  when  they  could,  with  some  de- 
gree of  success,  whether  it  was  10  or  20  years,  play  the  role  that  is  al- 
lotted to  them,  namely  to  turn  the  Armed  Forces  against  the  so-called 
capitalist  state  and  utilize  it  for  the  Communist  Party,  following  the 
identical  pattern,  incidentally,  that  was  used  in  the  Soviet  Union 
when  power  was  seized  from  the  Kerensky  government. 

Mr.  Doyle.  My  final  question  is  this,  Mr.  Ashe.  I  take  it  there  was 
a  time  when  you  not  only  had  little  use,  but  no  use  or  respect,  for  the 
functioning  of  the  Un-American  Activities  Committee  of  the  United 
States  Congress.  I  take  it  by  your  testimony  here  this  morning  that 
you  have  changed  that  opinion. 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  would  like  to  say 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  caused  you  to  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  What  caused  me  to  change  ? 

Mr.  Doyle.  Yes. 


1456  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  think  I  made  that  fairly  clear  this  morning,  that  I 
couldn't  go  along  with  the  inhuman,  brutal  attitude  of  the  [Communist 
Party]  leadership,  which  I  was  finally  obliged  to  realize  was  not  purely 
a  bad  local  leadership  but  was  a  reflection  of  the  leadership  clear  up  to 
the  top. 

Mr.  Doyle.  1  remember  that  testimony  and  I  will  interrupt  you 
because  I  don't  mean  for  you  to  repeat  it.  It  was  very  helpful.  Have 
you  any  suggestion  for  the  functioning  of  this  committee?  Is  there 
any  field  of  endeavor  that  we  should  enter?  Are  we  functioning,  in 
your  judgment,  in  a  helpful,  constructive  manner  or  is  there  something 
we  should  add  to  our  functioning  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  No.  I  think  you  are  doing  a  very  excellent  job.  I 
might  add  that  when  I  borrowed  this  copy  of  the  1938  Report  of  the 
House  Un-American  Activities  Committee  from  Charlie  Daggett, 
which  was  in  1939,  after  I  had  ceased  to  be  an  organizational  member 
of  the  party,  that  although  that  committee  made  many  mistakes  some 
of  the  testimony  in  there  helped  me  to  resolve  my  remaining  idea- 
logical  doubts  and  helped  to  set  me  on  the  right  road  to  recovering 
my  freedom  and  completely  disassociating  myself  from  the  Commu- 
nist Party. 

Mr.  Doyle.  There  is  one  other  question  I  wish  to  ask  you.  I  no- 
ticed this  morning  that  on  two  occasions  at  least  in  one  way  or 
another  you  volunteered  the  statement  even  directing  your  statement 
to  people  possibly  who  might  be  in  this  room,  that  in  your  opinion 
there  were  many  Communists  that  were  seeking  a  way  out 

Mr.  AsnE.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Of  membership  in  the  Communist  Party.  Why  did 
you  mention  that  on  two  occasions  ?     You  emphasized  it. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Because  I  went  through  a  very  difficult  period  myself. 
I  feel  personally  responsible  for  the  fact  that  some  of  these  people 
that  are  in  this  room  are  still  in  the  party.  I  regret  that  I  have  to 
expose  them  but  the  responsibility  is  theirs.  They  are  still  in,  so  far 
as  I  know.  I  would  like  to  see  them  get  out.  I  don't  think  they 
belong  in  there.  I  think  they  have  been  badly  misled.  _  I  think  if 
they  had  the  benefit  of  associating,  as  long  as  I  did,  with  the  top 
leadership  of  the  party,  I  think  they  would  realize  that  they  are  asso- 
ciating with  a  bunch  of  rascals  and  skunks.  That  is  my  considered 
judgment. 

I  know  one  man  whose  eye  I  caught  here  earlier  this  morning  isa 
person  in  the  Communist  Party.  I  am  satisfied  just  from  looking  in 
his  eyes  he  wants  to  get  out,  and  get  out  very  badly.     I  hope  he  will. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  realize,  don't  you,  that  this  committee  has,  over 
radio,  through  our  counsel  and  through  our  distinguished  chairman, 
offered  on  many  occasions  to  cooperate  with  those  who  desire  to  co- 
operate with  the  committee,  and  help  them  in  every  way — not  to  harm 
them  but  to  help  them,  as  they  got  out  or  desired  to  get  out  of  the 
Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  understand  that.  But  what  my  purpose  was  this 
morning  was  to  try  to  lay  an  escape  route  for  these  people  who  have 
been  trapped  in  the  party  and  who  are  going  through  a  very  trying 
psychological  period  when  they  can't  disassociate  themselves.  They 
are  completely  surrounded.  They  don't  know  what  to  do,  they  can't 
think  for  themselves;  they  have  surrendered  the  right  to  think  and 
they  don't  know  where  to  start  again. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1457 

I  am  merely  trying  to  tell  them  how  to  do  it,  in  the  hope  that  they, 
too,  will  come  forward  within  a  year  or  two  after  they  have  been  able 
to  make  their  adjustments  and  make  their  contributions.  I  know  I 
had  a  very  trying  period  before  I  was  completely  free. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Thank  you  very  much.    That's  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  It  will  give  me  pleasure  to  recognize  the  appearance  in 
the  committee  room  of  a  distinguished  State  senator  from  Los  Angeles 
County,  Mr.  Jack  Tenney. 

Mr.  Jackson,  do  you  have  some  questions  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  should  like  to  recognize,  Mr.  Chairman,  the  presence 
in  the  committee  room  of  our  distinguished  Lieutenant  Governor  of 
the  State  of  California,  Goodwin  J.  Knight,  and  also  Senator  Nelson 
Dilworth,  who  has  also  been  associated  with  the  activities  of  the  State 
un-American  activities  committee  in  Sacramento. 

Mr.  Wood.  It  is  a  pleasure  to  have  you  gentlemen  here,  I  am  sure. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Ashe,  during  the  course  of  your  testimony  you 
mentioned  a  man  by  the  name  of  Will  Geer,  who  has  previously  ap- 
peared before  this  committee.  You  were  unable  to  state  as  a  certainty 
whether  or  not  the  man  who  appeared  was  the  same  individual  whom 
you  had  known  during  your  period  of  time  in  the  party. 

Mr.  Ashe.  No;  I  couldn't  state  with  certainty  that  the  man  who 
appeared  a  year  or  so  ago  before  your  committee  was  the  man  I  knew 
in  1934. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Would  you  be  able  to  give  the  committee  a  physical 
description  of  the  individual  who  was  known  to  you  as  Will  Geer? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  am  not  too  sure.  When  I  knew  him  he  was  probably 
about  my  age,  which  would  make  him  about,  say,  32  to  34,  maybe  a 
little  younger.  Tall,  lanky,  loose-boned  person.  In  those  days  he  was 
quite  thin — I  don't  think  he  was  eating  too  well — rather  an  engaging 
personality,  I  would  say.  Under  purely  social  conditions,  a  person 
that  one  would  enjoy  visiting  with,  shooting  the  breeze. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Geer  made  a  very  interesting  witness  before  the 
committee.     He  didn't  say  much  but  he  was  extremely  interesting. 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  understand. 

Mr.  Jackson.  It  has  also  been  testified,  or  it  has  been  stated  in  tes- 
timony taken  before  the  committee  that  the  Communist  Party  has 
been  so  organized  in  this  country  as  to  provide  for  successive  echelons 
of  command,  to  take  care  of  such  situations  as  the  FBI  round-up  in 
New  York  and  in  San  Francisco.  Out  of  your  personal  knowledge  of 
the  operations  of  the  Communist  Party  would  you  care  to  comment 
on  what  provisions  have  been  made  against  possible  removal  of  effec- 
tive leadership  at  the  district  or  State  levels? 

Mr.  Ashe).  I  wouldn't  be  able  to  speak  now.  In  '34  or  '35,  '36,  I 
had  some  knowledge  of  this  procedure.  In  fact,  my  then  wife,  I 
believe,  was  one  of  those  in  charge  of  what  they  called  "reserve  com- 
mittee." I  know  that  there  was  at  all  times,  especially  during  periods 
when  the  party  was  semi-legal,  or  semi-illegal,  if  you  please,  there 
was  always  provision  made  so  that  if  the  functioning  bureau  or  lead- 
ership of  the  party  in  any  area  was  taken  that  there  were  others  im- 
mediately to  rise  to  the  surface. 

I  think  on  this  point  I  would  like  to  make  an  observation  that 
somebody  somewhere  has  made  the  statement  that  in  the  event  the 
party  was  rounded  up  that  there  would  be  10  percent,  or  something 


1458  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

like  that,  thrown  in  jail  and  the  other  90  percent,  presumably,  would 
not.  I  think  this  would  be  a  serious  mistake,  because  the  Communist 
Party  has,  as  one  of  its  basic  teachings,  that  every  Communist  must 
be  a  leader.  Every  Communist  is  a  potential  leader,  regardless  of 
whether  he  is  a  rank  and  file  in  his  unit,  or  what  he  is.  He  is  taught 
at  all  times  to  assume  leadership  and  how  to  assume  leadership.  He 
is  taught  to,  if  necessary,  work  on  his  own  initiative.  I  know  that 
when  I  was  in  we  were  taught  a  considerable  amount  of  underground 
woi'k,  how  to  break  the  large  units  up  into  small  units,  how  to  convey 
messages,  and  so  on  and  so  forth.  I  don't  think  it  is  safe  to  assume 
that  because  you  get  a  certain  group  of  recognized  leaders  and  put 
them  in  jail,  and  possibly  convict  them,  that  you  have  even  scratched 
the  surface  as  far  as  breaking  up  the  party  is  concerned.  Quite  the 
contrary,  you  have  merely  brought  out  a  new  group  of  possibly 
younger  and  more  competent  leaders  who  have  awaited  this  oppor- 
tunity to  demonstrate  their  ability  for  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Jackson.  During  the  course  of  your  testimony  you  also  set 
forth  the  circumstances  of  a  meeting  you  attended  on  which  occasion 
you  waited  on  a  very  prominent  street  corner  for  several  hours.  You 
said  at  that  time  the  only  person  who  was  likely  to  have  known  the 
meeting  place,  or  who  did  know  it,  was  Ked  Hynes.  Would  you 
further  identify  Mr.  Hynes  so  there  will  be  no  misunderstanding. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Mr.  Hynes  was — I  believe  he  had  the  rank  of  lieutenant 
in  the  Los  Angeles  Police  Department,  was  in  charge  of  what  they 
call  the  antisubversive  detail,  better  known  as  the  Red  squad.  I  am 
quite  sure  at  that  time  that  he  was  fully  cognizant  of  everything  that 
went  on  in  the  Communist  Party ;  in  fact  I  even  know  his  source  of 
information.    I  didn't  know  it  then. 

Mr.  Jackson.  His  presence  is  sadly  missed  today,  I  might  say,  Mr. 
Ashe.  Does  a  Communist  Party  member  bear  any  allegiance  to  the 
United  States  of  America  or  any  of  its  institutions  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  None  whatever. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Can  a  Communist  be  objective  in  his  teachings? 

Mr.  Ashe.  No. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Can  a  Communist  labor  leader  have  any  obligation 
to  the  people  he  is  presumed  to  represent  in  his  negotiations? 

Mr.  Ashe.  No.  Except  incidentally,  if  it  serves  his  purpose,  for 
which  he  is  really  there,  namely  to  carry  out  the  program  of  the  Com- 
munist Party,  whatever  that  may  happen  to  be  at  the  moment. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  said  in  answer  to  a  question  directed  to  you  by 
Mr.  Doyle,  that  probably  the  argument  you  used  in  recruiting  indi- 
viduals into  the  party  was  that  the  Communist  Party  stood  for  the 
best  interests  of  the  working  people.  That  statement,  of  course,  is 
no  longer  true  in  your  own  mind  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  It  wasn't  true  then. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  stand  corrected.  How  long,  in  your  opinion,  Mr. 
Ashe,  would  free  speech  exist  in  this  country  if  the  Communist  revolu- 
tion came  to  pass? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Just  long  enough  to  organize  a  large  force  of  uniformed 
goons. 

Mr.  Jackson.  How  long  would  freedom  of  assemblage  exist  under 
a  Communist  regime? 

Mr.  Ashe.  About  the  same  time. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1459 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  mean  less  time  that  it  would  take  to  eradicate 
the  House  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  would  say  so. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  suppose  the  same  thing  goes  for  freedom  of  religion 
and  all  the  other  freedoms  that  we  know  in  our  Bill  of  Rights  and 
Constitution  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Jackson.  How  much  actual  regard  do  members  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  hold  for  the  Bill  of  Rights,  with  particular  reference 
to  the  fifth  amendment? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Well,  I  understand  at  the  moment  that  they  are  very 
much  attached  to  the  first  and  fifth  amendments.  I  am  not  sure 
whether  they  know  anything  about  the  rest  of  the  Constitution  or  not. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  would  question  at  times  whether  they  know  any- 
thing about  the  first  and  fifth  Amendments  without  the  advice  of 
counsel. 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  didn't  say  they  knew  anything;  I  said  they  were  at- 
tached to  it. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Ashe,  in  conclusion  I  want  to  thank  you  for  your 
appearance  here  today.  I  think  that  every  word  of  your  statement 
has  gone  to  the  heart  of  this  question.  It  would  be  my  hope  that  every 
citizen  of  this  country  would  have  an  opportunity  to  read  what  you 
have  had  to  say.  I  congratulate  you  on  it.  I  don't  think  communism 
has  anything  to  do  with  a  political  party.  It  is  an  international  con- 
spiracy and  I  think- you  are  entirely  right  when  you  say  it  should  be 
outlawed  lock,  stock,  and  barrel. 

I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter  of  Michigan. 

I  would  like  to  ask  the  guards,  if  there  is  another  demonstration  in 
this  hearing  room  during  the  progress  of  these  hearings,  to  immedi- 
ately eject  whoever  is  guilty  of  it. 

Proceed. 

Mr.  Potter.  Mr.  Ashe,  was  any  effort  made  to  recruit  you  back  into 
the  party  after  you  disassociated  yourself  from  the  party  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Directly,  no.  For  a  long  time  I  don't  think  that  the 
leadership  of  the  Communist  Party  knew  what  had  happened,  because 
when  I  came  back  to  town  after  being  on  a  tour  for  the  Spanish  refu- 
gee committee  as  an  organizer,  I  found  that  my  old  branch,  the  forty- 
fourth  Assembly  District  branch,  had  been  reorganized  and  broken 
down  into  small  units.  Apparently  each  of  the  unit  organizers  as- 
sumed that  I  was  in  some  other  unit,  which  was  precisely  what  I 
wanted  them  to  think,  and  I  didn't  disabuse  them. 

However,  I  will  say  this,  that  along  about  1946,  after  the  war  was 
over,  I  received  a  communication  from  the  one-time  organizer  of  the 
Communist  Party  here  in  Los  Angeles  County,  a  man  by  the  name  of 
Jack  Moore,  whom  I  had  personally  known  at  one  time.  Jack  wrote 
a  letter  to  my  home,  told  me  that  he  was  back  from  service  overseas, 
had  had  a  lot  to  think  about,  had  changed  his  mind  about  a  lot  of 
things  and  indicated  he  was  interested  in  writing.  He  knew  that  I  was 
professionally  engaged  in  writing,  indicated  that  I  might  be  helpful  to 
him  professionally  and  indicated  that  he  would  like  to  talk  things 
over,  possibly  resolve  some  of  his  own  doubts.  So  I  thought,  well,  I 
went  through  the  mill,  maybe  this  guy  is  going  through  the  mill,  so  I 

81595 — 51— pt.  4 4 


1460  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

better  see  him.    I  made  an  appointment  with  him  and  met  him  at  Man- 
ning's Cafe  on  Third  Street. 

We  talked  around  a  while  about  literature.  He  wanted  to  write 
a  book.  I  couldn't  see  much  possibility  in  it  but  at  any  rate  he  seemed 
to  be  interested  in  writing  a  book.  I  gave  him  such  encouragement 
as  I  could  and  then  pretty  soon  he  came  around  to  the  question  of  how 
1  felt  about  communism,  so  I  proceeded  to  tell  him. 

At  this  point  I  suddenly  realized  that  Jack  Moore  had  not  sought 
me  out  with  a  view  to  getting  any  help,  any  guidance  in  resolving  his 
problem,  but  rather  quite  obviously  he  had  been  sent  by  the  party 
to  interview  me  and  to  find  out  where  I  really  stood.  In  other  words, 
was  I  antiparty  or  was  I  merely  out  of  the  party.  There  is  con- 
siderable difference.  In  other  words,  the  party  apparently  was  hope- 
ful that  I  had  been  sufficiently  neutralized  that  I  would  not  harm  the 
party.  I  know  that  we  got  onto  the  question  of  the  possibility  of  an- 
other war  and  he  wanted  to  know  where  I  stood  and  indicated  that 
he  had  grave  doubts — remember  he  was  an  officer  in  the  United  States 
Army  attached  to  a  tank-destroyer  battalion,  I  believe  second  lieu- 
tenant. He  said  that  he  would  have  grave  doubts  as  to  whether  he 
would  fight  for  this  country  in  the  event  of  another  war.  I  told  him 
that  there  was  no  doubt  in  my  mind  where  my  loyalty  would  stand. 

At  one  point  we  reached  the  point  where  we — we  both  had  pretty 
good  voices  and  we  reached  the  point  where  we  were  shouting  at 
each  other  in  Manning's  Cafe.  And  that  is  the  last  time  I  have 
seen  Mr.  Moore. 

I  am  quite  sure  that  he  immediately  reported  to  the  county  office, 
where  his  wife  at  that  time  was  some  kind  of  functionary.  I  learned 
that  later. 

Mr.  Potter.  Mr.  Ashe,  at  any  time  did  the  party  functionaries  ever 
get  together  and  discuss  that  "come  the  revolution"  they  would  be  the 
men  in  control  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Yes ;  there  was  a  good  bit  of  talk  like  that,  but  not  too 
much.  Some  of  it  was  more  or  less  in  jest.  I  mean  they  would  kid 
about  where  they  were  going  to  live,  but  it  was  half  kidding  and  half 
serious.  I  mean  these  guys  weren't  living  too  well  and  I  suppose  some 
of  these  residences  out  in  Hollywood,  and  so  forth,  did  appeal  to 
them,  and  the  idea  of  having  three  good  meals  a  day.  I  mean  there 
was  a  certain  amount  of  that  in  a  semihumorous  vein,  although,  as 
I  say,  they  have  no  real  sense  of  humor. 

Mr.  Potter.  Did  your  organization,  your  county  organization,  re- 
ceive many  of  the  high  functionaries  from  either  the  State  central 
committee  or  the  National  central  committee  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Receive  many? 

Mr.  Potter.  Yes.  Did  they  come  out  and  visit  you  or  lecture  to 
you,  and  so  forth? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Oh,  yes.  Sam  Darcy,  who  was  State  organizer,  came 
down  here  periodically  to  Los  Angeles  to  meet  with  the  leadership 
and  frequently  stayed  at  the  home  of  Dr.  I.  S.  Decker.  I  have  at- 
tended several  meetings  at  Dr.  Decker's  home  where  Sam  Darcy  was 
present. 

We  discussed  immediate  policies  of  the  party,  recruiting,  how  to 
infiltrate  organizations,  work  in  the  united  front,  and  other  practical 
day-to-day  problems.     There  have  been  national  figures  come  out.. 


COMMUNISM   EST   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1461 

Browder  was  out  here  in  1936  on  a  speaking  tour,  Kobert  Minor  was 
here  in  1934.  I  toured  the  State  with  Robert  Minor.  A  man  by  the 
name  of  Ford,  who  was  running  for  vice  president  in  1936,  was  out 
here  and  spoke  at  a  large  rally.  They  came  through  periodically  and 
exerted  great  influence  on  the  local  party. 

Mr.  Potter.  When  they  would  come  out  here  would  they  meet  with 
the  leaders  or  would  a  mass  meeting  be  held  for  them  to  speak? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Both.  If  they  were  competent  public  speakers  they 
would  usually  speak  at  a  large  mass  meeting  or  rally,  and  then  in 
addition  would  meet  with  the  party  functionaries,  the  county  leader- 
ship, and  straighten  out  the  county  leadership  on  any  points  of  policy 
that  the  county  leadership  was  unclear  on,  or  which  it  was  going 
wrong  on. 

Mr.  Potter.  When  a  person  has  been  recruited  into  the  party  I  as- 
sume there  is  a  period  of  training  or  indoctrination  that  he  must  go 
through.  I  believe  you  stated  that  in  your  case  you  rebelled  against 
the  series  of  training  experiences  that  you  had. 

Mr.  Ashe.  I  rebelled  at  going  through  a  beginners'  class  twice. 
There  was  a  beginners  class. 

This  beginners'  class  would  consist  of  all  of  the  new  members  who 
had  been  recruited  within  the  last  few  weeks.  Sometimes  a  member 
would  go  into  a  unit  before  he  had  been  in  the  beginner's  class,  simply 
because  there  was  not  a  beginner's  class  in  process  at  that  time.  But 
as  soon  as  one  was  set  up,  when  there  were  enough  recruits  one  would 
be  set  up,  a  teacher  would  be  assigned  and  then  they  would  go  to  the 
beginner's  class. 

Mr.  Potter.  I  have  here  a  photostat  of  a  publication  called  the 
Communist  Party,  A  Manual  Of  Organization,  which  was  published 
in  July  of  1935.  This  was  written  by  a  J.  Peters,  a  gentleman  I  am 
sure  you  are  familiar  with. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Potter.  As  I  understand,  the  information  has  been  given  our 
committee  that  this  in  many  cases,  this  manual  on  organization  has 
been  used  as  a  Communist  Party  bible  in  many  sections,  particularly 
with  new  members,  to  outline  the  party  objectives.  I  would  like  to 
just  quote  a  paragraph  from  the  role  and  aim  of  the  Communist  Party 
as  cited  in  their  own  manual,  and  I  would  like  to  have  your  comment 
to  see  if  that  paragraph  I  have  cited  was  carried  through  into  the 
organization  as  you  were  f  amili'ar  with  it,  and  I  quote  now : x 

As  the  leader  and  organizer  of  the  proletariat  the  Communist  Party  of  the 
United  States  of  America  leads  the  working  class  in  a  fight  for  the  revolutionary 
overthrow  of  capitalism,  for  the  establishment  of  the  dictatorship  of  the  prole- 
tariat, for  the  establishment  of  a  socialistic  soviet  republic  in  the  United  States, 
for  the  complete  abolition  of  classes,  for  the  establishment  of  socialism,  the  first 
stage  of  a  classless,  Communist  society. 

Now,  the  role  and  aim  as  outlined  in  that  short  paragraph,  would 
you  say  that  was  consistent  with  the  Communist  Party  as  you  knew  it  ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  Definitely. 

Mr.  Potter.  In  line  with  your  statement  that  the  Communist  Party 
is  not  a  political  party  but  an  international  conspiracy,  I  think  it  might 
be  well,  also,  to  cite  from  an  oath  that  was  taken  by  2,000  members  of 
the  party,  new  members  to  the  party,  which  was  given  to  them  by 


J  See  appendix,  printed  in  a  separate  volume  for  complete  text  of  this  document. 


1462  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Browder.    This  was  in  New  York  in  1935.    I  would  just  like  to  read 
one  sentence,  a  very  salient  sentence,  from  this  oath. 
It  says : 

I  pledge  myself  to  rally  the  masses  to  defend  the  Soviet  Union,  the  land  of 
victorious  socialism. 

Now,  I  don't  know  whether  every  new  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  takes  this  oath  or  not,  but  I  am  anxious  to  receive  your  advice 
as  to  whether  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  is  pledged  to  defend 
the  Soviet  Union  irrespective  of  the  position  the  Soviet  Union  might 
be  in. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct.  That  has  always  been  the  position  of  the 
Communist  Party,  so  far  as  I  know,  within  my  experience,  without 
exception. 

Mr.  Potter.  In  other  words,  if  the  Soviet  Union  should  attack  the 
United  States  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  would  be  pledged 
to  defend  the  Soviet  Union  rather  than  their  own  country? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Jackson.  One  question. 

The  people  who  took  this  oath,  of  course,  are  the  same  people  who 
profess  so  vigorously  against  the  signing  of  loyalty  oaths  on  the  part 
of  anyone  else. 

Mr.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Potter.  Mr.  Ashe,  I  wish  to  join  my  colleagues  in  thanking 
you  for  the  forthright  and  wonderful  statements  that  you  have  made. 
The  American  people  will  be  proud  of  your  testimony. 

Thank  you,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Ashe,  I  would  like  to  join  with  the  other  members 
of  the  committee  in  expressing  to  you  the  deep  appreciation  which  the 
committee  feels  for  the  courageous  and  forthright  manner  in  which 
you  have  given  us  the  benefit  of  your  experience  and  your  observ- 
ations, suggestions  and  advice  concerning  this  investigation  and  the 
current  menace  of  communism  to  the  American  people  and  this  Gov- 
ernment. I  feel  that  your  evidence  has  been  very  helpful  to  the  com- 
mittee and  should  be  of  benefit  and  interest  to  the  American  people. 

Mr.  Ashe.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Wood.  If  there  are  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Counsel,  is  there 
any  reason  why  this  witness  should  not  be  excused? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir,  there  is  not, 

Mr.  Wood.  It  is  so  ordered. 

Who  do  you  have  next? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mrs.  Mildred  Ashe. 

Mr.  Wood.  Is  Mrs.  Mildred  Ashe  in  the  courtroom? 

Mrs.  Ashe,  will  you  hold  up  your  hand  and  be  sworn.  Do  you  sol- 
emnly swear  the  evidence  you  give  this  subcommittee  shall  be  the 
truth",  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  proceed,  counsel. 

TESTIMONY  OF  MILDRED  ASHE 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  Mrs.  Mildred  Ashe? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  were  formerly  the  wife  of  Mr.  Harold  Ashe? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1463 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  were  you  and  Mr.  Ashe  married  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  In  September,  1927. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  now  divorced  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  we  are. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  obtain  your  divorce? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  In  November  of  1936. 

(At  this  point  Representative  Donald  L.  Jackson  left  the  hearing 
room.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  the  period  of  your  marriage  were  you  at  any 
time  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  I  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  the  time  and  circum- 
stances under  which  you  became  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  I,  too,  was  a  member  of  the  Socialist  Party  and 
Oleta  O'Connor— — 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  please  raise  your  voice  a  little  bit. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Suppose  I  move  in  a  little  bit. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  wish  you  would  spell  the  proper  names,  please. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Okay.  Oleta  O'Connor  came  down  to  Commonwealth 
House  on  a  speaking  tour  as  a  member  of  the  Socialist  Party  and  we 
had  a  lot  of  what  Mr.  Ashe  calls  rump  sessions.  During  that  period 
we  decided,  all  of  us,  that  we  would  go  into  the  Communist  Party. 
Mr.  Ashe  joined  about  3  months  before  I  did.  I  think  I  joined  about 
the  end,  that  is  the  last  of  December  of  1933. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  is  Oleta  O'Connor  the  same  person  as  Oleta 
O'Connor  Yates  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes.  At  that  time  she  was  not  married.  That's  her 
unmarried  name. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  your  husband  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  at  the  time  that  you  joined? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  he  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  had  he  been  a  member,  to  your 
knowledge  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  I  didn't  know  that  he  was  a  member.  He  was  a 
member  a  few  months  before  I  knew  it.  I  would  say  probably  2  or 
3  months. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  become  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the 
name  of  Millicent  Hayes  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes.  I  was  Millicent  Hayes.  That  was  my  party 
name. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Why  were  you  given  the  name  of  Millicent  Hayes  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  because  during  that  period  it  was  customary  for 
new  recruits  to  use  a  name  other  than  his  own  name.  It  was  cus- 
tomary in  the  party.  Very  rarely  did  anyone  join  under  their  own 
name. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  To  what  unit  or  cell  of  the  party  were  you  assigned  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well.  I  wasn't  assigned  to  anything  for  several  months 
because  of  Mr.  Ashe's  connection  with  the  Socialist  Party  as  State 
secretary  and  so  forth.  We  were  all  more  or  less,  shall  I  say,  kept 
underground. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you,  during  that  period,  attend  Communist 
Party  meetings? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Not  open  meetings ;  no. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  attend  closed  meetings  ? 


1464  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes.  That  is,  there  were  meetings  with  the  top  func- 
tionaries of  the  Los  Angeles  section.  Mr.  Manoff,  Lawrence  Ross, 
and  a  young  man  by  the  name  of  Jimmy  Allen,  who  I  believe  at  that 
time  was  agit-prop 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  what  is  meant  by  the 
term  "agit-prop"? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  agit-prop  was  an  abbreviation  for  "agitaion  and 
propaganda."  In  other  words,  later  it  became  a  little  more  anglicized 
they  called  him  educational  director.  At  that  time  they  were  known 
as  agit-props. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  ever  serve  in  the  capacity  of  agit-prop? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  I  am  quite  sure  I  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  For  how  long  a  period  of  time  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  that  would  be  a  little  difficult  to  say,  because  I 
was  in  a  number  of  units  over  a  period  of  time,  and  I  served  in  almost 
every  capacity  at  one  time  or  another.  This  was  18  years  ago  so  it  is- 
a  little  hard  to  remember  what  unit. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Without  going  into  detail  will  you  state  at  the 
present  time  the  exact  titles  of  the  positions  that  you  held  while  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  I  was  a  unit  organizer,  dues  secretary,  an  agit- 
prop, I  served  on  the  county  central  committee,  I  served  on  finance 
committees  which  were,  incidentally,  made  up  of  sympathizers  of  the 
party  rather  than  party  members,  and  also  the  reserve  committee. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  will  ask  you  more  about  the  reserve  committee 
later.  Did  you  also  serve  as  a  member  of  a  secret  committee  of  any 
character? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  The  reserve  committee  was  a  secret  committee. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now  I  would  like  for  you  to  tell  the  committee 
where  you  first  met  with  other  Communists  in  Communist  Party 
meetings. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  You  mean  a  street  unit,  perhaps? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  the  first  street  unit  I  attended  was  some  place  on 
Lemon  Grove  Avenue.    I  don't  know  the  address. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  the  name  of  the  person  in  whose  home 
the  meeting  was  held  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes.    Eose  Elfman's  home. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  the  last  name? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  believe  it  was  E-1-f-m-a-n,  or  double  n,  I  don't  know. 
I'm  not  sure  about  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  she  known  to  you  to  be  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  she  was  a  member  of  the  unit. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  what  other  homes  did  you  meet,  that  is  engaged 
in  Communist  Party  meetings? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes.  Well,  I  don't  know  how  it  is  now,  but  in  those 
days  we  met  at  a  different  home  each  week.  And  I  would  meet,  well, 
for  instance,  Mr.  and  Mrs.  Beaman  x  were  members  of  a  unit  to  which 
I  belonged.  I  don't  know  whether  it  is  the  same  unit  or  another  unit. 
I  met  in  their  home. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  did  not  understand  the  last  name. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Beaman,  B-e-a-m-a-n.1 


1  Individual  named  by  Harold  J.  Ashe,  Morton  Beeman. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1465 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  recall  the  names  of  other  persons  in  whose 
home  you  met  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  I  can't.  I'm  sorry,  because  after  we  left  Common- 
wealth House,  for  some  reason,  our  house  seemed  to  be  the  meeting 
place  and  so  many  unit  meetings  were  held  there.  It  is  a  little  hard 
to  remember. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  you  mentioned  Commonwealth  House.  What 
was  the  significance  of  your  living  in  Commonwealth  House  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  during  the  period  that  we  were  identified  with 
the  Socialist  Party,  the  Socialist  Party  took  a  big  home  in  Hollywood 
at  Sunset  and  Vine — 1453  is  the  address — and  that  was  the  Socialists' 
headquarters.  It  was  a  three-story  house  that  at  one  time  had  been  a 
mansion,  the  old  Martin  estate,  and  we  were  there  as  caretakers  and 
made  our  home  in  the  Socialist  Party  headquarters  at  that  time.  .Then 
subsequently,  when  we  transferred  allegiance  to  the  Communist  Party, 
the  Communist  Party  took  over  Commonwealth  House.  However,  I 
do  not  remember  any  unit  meetings  at  Commonwealth  House  because 
it  was  a  rule  of  the  party  that  no  party  meetings  should  be  held  because 
this  was  a  house  that  housed  all  of  the  front  organizations,  such  as 
the  John  Reed  Club,  the  ILD,  the  1WO 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  just  a  moment.  Will  you  give  us  the  names 
rather  than  the  initials  of  those  organizations. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  O.  K.  The  John  Reed  Club,  which  was  a  club  made 
up  of  artists  and  writers  and  so  forth,  of  Hollywood,  mostly.  The  ILD 
was  the  International  Labor  Defense. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  International  Labor  Defense? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  believe  that's  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That's  right. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  am  so  used  to  just  the  initials.  IWO  is  the  Interna- 
tionl  Workers'  Order,  which  was  an  insurance  kind  of  thing.  It  also 
housed  the  Partisan,  which  was  a  magazine  published  by  the  John 
Reed  Club  and  various  others.  Oh,  Schuler.  This  was  a  children's 
organization.    Oh,  and  the  YCL  also  met  there. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  YCL ;  did  you  say  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Oh,  excuse  me.    The  Young  Communist  League. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Young  Communist  League  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  tell  us  a  little  more  about  the  functioning 
of  the  John  Reed  Club.  That  is,  when  they  began  to  function  in  Los 
Angeles. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No  ;  I  don't  know  the  history  of  the  John  Reed  Club.  1 
never  was  a  member  of  the  club,  and  I  never  was  assigned  to  it  as  a 
party  member. 

(At  this  time  Representative  Donald  L.  Jackson  entered  the  hearing 
room. ) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  you  state  that  after  leaving  Commonwealth 
House  many  of  the  meetings  were  held  in  your  home? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  that's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  that  unit  or  cell  have  a  name  which  met  in  your 
home  and  which  you  attended  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  no ;  because  there  were  various  units.  We  weren't 
in  one  unit  very  long.    I  mean,  we  were  transferred  around  a  great 


1466  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION -PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

deal.  I  mean,  if  they  needed  an  organizer,  for  instance,  we  moved  in 
and  acted  as  organizer.  If  they  needed  an  agitprop,  we  moved  in. 
So,  we  sort  of  pinch-hit  from  one  unit  to  another. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Your  former  husband  has  described  the  organiza- 
tion of  two  clubs  or  units  known  as  professional  clubs. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Z-100  and  Z-150? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  identified  with  either  or  both  of  those 
clubs? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  I  helped  organize  the  Z-100,  and  I  remember  when 
Z-150  was  organized  as  a  split  from  the  original  professional  unit, 
but  I  am  not  sure  which  one  I  remained  with. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  to  the  committee  the  names  of  those 
who  were  members  of  the  professional  club  whom  you  can  now  recall  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  Lionel  Stander  for  a  short  time  was  in  the  Z-100. 
His  wife  Lucy  was  recruited  into  B-100.    Jeff  Kibre  was  a  member. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  that  last  name,  please  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  K-i-b-r-e.  And  his  wife  Virginia  was  later  recruited 
into  the  unit  by  Jack — John  Broman,  B-r-o-m-a-n.  Jack  Wilson  was 
his  name.    John  Broman  was  his  party  name. 

(At  this  point  Representative  Charles  E.  Potter  left  the  room.) 

Mrs.  Ashe  (continuing).  Lou  Harris  and  his  wife  Vera  were  in 
one  of  the  units.  I  don't  know  which  one.  Herb  Klein  and  his  wife. 
Percy  Solotoy. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Just  a  moment.    Is  Herb  an  abbreviation  or 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  don't  know.  I  never  knew  him  as  anything  but  Herb 
Klein. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  further  information  of  a  descriptive  nature 
can  you  give  of  Mr.  and  Mrs.  Herbert  Klein?  Where  did  they  live 
and  what  did  they  do  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  don't  know  where  they  lived,  except  it  was  in  Holly- 
wood. I  mean,  I  couldn't  place  the  house.  They  were  Hollywood 
people. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  in  what  business  Mr.  Herbert  Klein 
was  engaged? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  I  don't  know  what  he  was  in  then.  I  understand 
later  he  was  a  professor  at  City  College. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  how  he  may  be  employed  now  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No  ;  I  haven't  been  in  touch  with  him  for  many  years. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  tell  us  anything  about  his  activity  while 
you  were  associated  with  him  in  this  club? 

(At  this  point  Representative  Francis  E.  Walter  left  the  room.) 

Mr.  Tavenner  (continuing).  Of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes.  Well,  these  units  were  more  or  less  underground 
units.  I  mean,  the  people  couldn't  be  exposed.  There  was  a  lot  of 
work  they  couldn't  do.  For  instance,  they  couldn't  have  attended  a 
meeting  like  this  as  a  party  member.  They  couldn't  go  on  a  picket 
line.    There  were  a  lot  of  things  they  couldn't  do.    They  were 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  what  was  the  reason  for  that  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  if  I  may  use  the  term,  they  were  sort  of  sacred 
cows.  I  think  they  got  a  little  to  think  they  were  so  important  that 
they  couldn't  be  regular  Communist  Party  members.  They  had  to  be 
extra  special  ultra. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1467 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  is  there  anything  you  can  tell  us  about  the 
activity  of  Mr.  Klein  while  a  member  of  this  unit? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  one  of  the  activities  of  that  unit  was  the  forming 
of  the  New  Music  Group.  It  was  a  group  to  raise  money.  I  mean, 
it  was — the  idea  was  to  give  concerts.  Mr.  Klein,  as  I  remember  it, 
had  brought  back  a  number  of  very  wonderful  recordings  from  Ger- 
many, and  there  were  concerts  given  at  which  these  recordings  were 
played,  and  that  sort  of  thing.  I  only  attended  one  or  two  of  those. 
That  is  about  as  much  on  that  as  I  know,  but  that  was  one  of  the 
things  that  the  unit  was  able  to  do.  Spencer  Austrian  was  also  a 
member  of  that  group. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  what  his  position  was? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  I  believe  Mr.  Austrian  is  an  attorney. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  name  others? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  the  reason  I  speak  of  Mr.  Austrian,  almost  every- 
one I  have  to  remember  in  connection  with  some  incident  or  some- 
thing, because  they  are  not  just  names.  I  remember,  for  instance, 
that  one  of  the  functions  that  we  had  was  to  arrange  for  the  mechanics 
of  an  underground.  For  instance,  we  raised  money — I  believe  New 
Music  Group  money  went  in  to  buy  an  electric  mimeograph. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  about  to  make  any  further  statement 
regarding 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  yes ;  I  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner  (continuing).  Mr.  Austrian? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Because  at  that  time  anyone  who  bought  a  mimeo- 
graph, or  anything  of  that  kind,  had  to  be — it  had  to  be  registered 
with  the  Government  somehow,  and  I  am  trying  to  remember  how 
it  was  registered.    I  mean,  I  haven't  thought  of  it  in  years. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  this  mimeograph  machine  to  be  used  in  any 
underground  operations  of  the  party  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  it  was  to  be  kept  sort  of — you  know,  quiet,  until 
such  time  as  it  might  be  needed.  I  don't  remember  any  other  people 
at  the  moment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  Morgan  Hull  ?  ♦ 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  I  laiew  Morgan. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  he  a  member  of  that  group  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes;  Morgan  was  a  member,  and  his  wife  Charlotte. 
I  believe  Morgan  afterward  became  head  of  the  National  Newspaper 
Guild. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  know  a  person  by  the  name  of  Percy 
Solotoy? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Percy  Solotoy  and  his  wife  Sonya  were  recruited  from 
the  Contemporary  Theatre. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  From  what  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  From  the  Contemporary  Theatre  group,  which  was 
another  front  group. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  they  members  of  this  cell  or  unit  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  and  I  think  Jeff  Kibre  recruited  them.  My  recol- 
lection is  that  it  was  Jeff  Kibre  who  recruited  them. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  there  anything  else  that  you  can  recall  regarding 
their  activities  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  attended  a  unit  meeting  at  their  home — they  lived 
on  Kings  Koad,  and  I  did  attend  a  meeting  there,  a  unit  meeting  there, 


1468  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

and  Percy  was  very  active  in  the  Contemporary  Theater  work  which 
staged  left-wing  plays. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  you  say  he  was  "active"  in  the  theater  in  this 
particular  theater  group,  do  you  mean  to  indicate  that  activity  related 
to  Communist  Party  work  of  any  character  ? 

Mrs.  Ash.  Well,  Contemporary  Theatre  was  a  front  organization 
for  staging  left-wing  plays.  A  number  of  plays  were  staged  under 
the  banner  of  the  Contemporary  Theatre,  and  Mr.  Solotoy  was  very 
instrumental  in  organizing  that  and  keeping  it  going. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  meet  in  Communist  Party  meetings  with 
each  of  the  persons  whose  names  you  have  given  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  I  did.     Did  I  mention  Lou  Harris  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes;  you  did.  Now,  in  the  course  of  your  con- 
nection with  the  Communist  Party,  did  you  have  occasion  to  meet 
Communist  Party  functionaries  on  a  higher  level  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes;  I  did,  on  numerous  occasions.  We  met  often 
with  Hanoff.     Elmer  Hanoff,  I  think  his  name  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  he  also  known  as  Pop  Hanoff? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Pop  Hanoff  was  organizer  for  the  Los  Angeles  section 
when  we  joined  the  party.  Lawrence  Ross  at  that  time  was  organi- 
zation secretary.  Jimmy  Allen,  who  had  charge  of  educational  work. 
I  also  knew  Sam  Darcy,  who  was  district  organizer.  I  knew  Louise 
Todd  very  well  who,  at  one  time,  was  organizer  here.  I  knew  John 
Leech.  I  knew  Jim  Thorne.  I  knew  Rube  Lambert.  I  think  he 
spells  it  R-u-b-e  L-a-m-b-e-r-t.  I  know  Oleta  O'Connor.  That  is 
all  I  recall  at  the  moment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  Paul  Klein? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  yes.  I  had  very  little  to  do  with  Paul.  I  think 
maybe  Paul  conducted  a  central  council  committee  a  time  or  two  when 
I  was  a  delegate.  Other  than  that,  I  didn't  know  Paul.  I  didn't 
work  under  Paul  at  all. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  associated  in  any  way  with  Pettis  Perry  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  I  knew  Pettis  Perry  very  well.  I  don't  know 
what  his — I  don't  know  what  his  official  position  as  a  functionary 
was,  but  I  did  know  Pettis. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  know  him  as  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Definitely. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  He  is  the  same  person  who  is  now  under  indictment 
in  California? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  I  wouldn't  know,  but  I  would  say  yes.  He  was 
a  Negro  comrade. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  mentioned  Louise  Todd.  Now,  what  was  your 
first  association  with  her? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  Louise  came  to  Los  Angeles  to  take  over  the 
organization  job,  and  I  worked  with  Louise  a  very  great  deal.  I 
knew  Louise  very  well,  up  to  the  time  she  went  to  Tehachapi,  and  even 
after,  because  I  visited  her  at  Tehachapi,  and  it  was  Louise  who  as- 
signed me  to  the  reserve  committee  that  you  asked  about  a  few  mo- 
ments ago.  She  also  assigned  me  to  act  as  collector  for  the  party. 
That  is,  collecting  from  people  who  gave  regular  donations  who  were 
not  Communist  Party  members,  or,  if  they  were,  they  were  so  under- 
ground that  we  didn't  know  it. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1469 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  now,  tell  us  more  about  your  duties  as  a 
collector. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  my  duties  were — I  had  a  list  of  people  who  con- 
tributed each  month,  and  I  contacted  them  at  a  place  that  they  desig- 
nated, picked  up  the  money,  gave  them  a  receipt  always  made  out  to 
a  name  that  would  be  comparable  to  a  party  name.  I  mean,  their  own 
name  never  went  on  a  receipt,  but  they  received  a  receipt  that  had  the 
party  seal  on  it,  and  I  brought  the  money  into  the  office. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  was  this? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  In  1934. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  territory  or  area  did  you  perform  those  serv- 
ices in  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  Los  Angeles,  Hollywood,  a  time  or  two  I  even 
went  down  to  Malibu  Beach.  It  was  southern  California, — I  mean, 
it  was  the  Los  Angeles  area. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  seek  contributions  from  persons  engaged 
in  the  moving-picture  industry? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  There  were  a  few ;  yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  receiving  those  donations,  did  the  donor  under- 
stand the  purpose  for  which  the  money  was  being  given? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes;   they  understood  it  perfectly. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  They  understood  that  it  was  for  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes;  they  understood  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  you  gave  them  receipts  in  fictitious  names? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  give  us  the  names  at  this  time  of  persons 
in  the  industry — moving-picture  industry? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  I  can  only  give  you  a  few,  because  my  memory 
isn't  good  on  it.  J.  Sanders  was  on  my  list.  That  is  Lionel  Stander, 
as  he  is  known  professionally. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  frequently  did  he  make  contributions? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Once  a  month.  I  know  he  used  to  complain  because 
he  said  he  was  a  fatted  cow  for  the  party,  and  that  was  all. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  He  was  what? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  A  fatted  cow.    He  was  making  a  lot  of  money. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  were  these  special  contributions  or  were  they 
dues  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No  ;  they  were  not  dues.  They  were  voluntary  contri- 
butions to  the  Communist  Party  for  use  in  party  work. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  receive  donations  from  persons  who  were 
not  members  of  the  party? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  at  the  time  I  was  collecting  from  Mr.  Stander 
we  didn't  know  he  was  a  party  member. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  is  that? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  We  didn't  know  he  was  a  party  member  at  that  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  This  was  before  Z-100  and  Z-150  were  organized. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  was  after  that  that  he  became  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  Cell  Z-100? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  that's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  else  in  the  industry  did  you  receive  donations 
from? 


1470  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  also  collected  from  a  man  by  the  name  of  Bright,  who, 
at  that  time,  was  a  writer  at  Paramount  studios,  and  his  partner  whose 
name  I  do  not  remember. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Any  others  which  you  can  recall  at  the  present 
time? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  also  collected  from  Carl  Dreher,  who  was  identified 
with  KKO  studios,  but  I  don't  know  in  what  capacity.  It  was  a  very 
technical  thing  and  I  don't  know  what  his  position  was  there. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  his  first  name? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Carl. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Carl? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Dreher,  D-r-e-h-e-r. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  each  of  those  persons  understand  the  purpose 
for  the  donations? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  they  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  are  there  others  whose  names  you  can  now 
recall  who  became  donors? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  can't  at  the  moment — oh,  Joe  Gollumb.  I  also  col- 
lected from  Joe  Gollumb,  who  was  a  writer  at  Paramount. 

Mr.  Wood.  At  this  point  the  committee  will  take  a  recess  for  15 
minutes. 

(Whereupon  a  15-minute  recess  was  here  taken.) 

(With  all  members  of  the  subcommittee  present  the  proceedings 
were  resumed.) 

Mr.  Wood.  We  will  have  order,  please.  Let  the  committee  be  in 
order,  and  proceed,  Mr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mrs.  Ashe,  were  you  acquainted  with  Betty  Bennett 
Gannett  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes;  Betty  was  active  here  in  Los  Angeles — I  can't 
even  recall  the  year.  Maybe  1937,  I  would  say.  In  1937.  She  was 
in  the  office,  but  I  don't  remember  what  her  capacity  was.  At  one 
time  she  was  educational  director.  I  remember  that,  because  I  was 
an  educational  director  for  my  branch  and  went  with  her  in  educa- 
tion branch — in  section  meetings. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Charles  Daggett? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Charles  Daggett  was  a  member  of  one  of  these  profes- 
sional units,  either  Z-100  or  Z-150.  I  don't  know  which  unit  he  was 
identified  with.    I  believe  Morgan  Hull  recruited  Mr.  Daggett. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  sit  in  Communist  Party  meetings  with 
Mr.  Daggett? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  frequently,  would  you  say? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That  I  wouldn't  be  able  to  say.     It  is  a  long  time  ago. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Before  the  recess  you  referred  to  having  received 
certain  directions  or  assignments  from  Louise  Todd. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes;  that's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  also  stated  that  you  received  an  appointment 
at  her  hands  to  what  was  known  as  the  reserve  committee? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes — no — yes;  that's  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  what  was  the  reserve  committee? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  the  reserve  committee  was  a  very  hush-hush  top- 
secret  committee  composed  of  three  people,  and  the  purpose  of  the 
committee  was  to  become  so  well  identified  with  work  in  the  State  of 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1471 

California  that  we  could  take  over  and  act  as  the  top  functionaries  in 
this  area  in  case  the  party  was  driven  underground. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  were  named  as  one  of  the  three  persons  to  such 
a  committee? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  date?  When  were  you  appointed 
to  that  committee? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  think  about  1936. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  were  your  associates  on  that  committee? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Ida  Miller  and  Charley  Young. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  did  this  committee  ever  function? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No,  not  in  the  way  that  it  was  supposed  to.  I  mean, 
we  didn't  go  underground.  We  met  frequently.  In  fact,  this  com- 
mittee was  so  hush-hush  that  no  one  was  supposed  to  know  about  it 
except  the  people  that  were  on  the  committee.  Even  my  husband 
Avas  not  supposed  to  know  anything  about  the  functioning  of  this 
committee. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  did  that  committee  go  through  a  course  of 
training  in  preparation  for  its  assignment? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes.  We  were  trained  on  where  mail  would  be  re- 
ceived, how  addresses  would  be  rotated 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  doubt  if  the  committee  can  hear  you  without  the 
aid  of  the  amplifying  system.     I  think  it  is  all  right  now. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Ali  right.     I  don't  think  it  is. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  us — I  believe  you  did  tell  us  who  your 
associates  were.  Now,  will  you  tell  us  what  type  of  training  you  took 
in  preparation  for  your  assignment  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  We  were  trained  in  where  to  receive  mail,  how  dues, 
stamps,  and  so  forth  would  be  received  and  distributed.  We  were 
given  a  code  that  would  be  used  in  sending  messages  back  and  forth 
between  various  points.  We  were  taught  that  code.  We  were  given 
messages  to  decode  and  we  were  taught  to  send  messages  in  the  code. 
In  other  words,  we  familiarized  ourselves  very  thoroughly  with  the 
code  that  was  to  be  used  in  the  event  it  was  needed. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  serve  on  that  committee  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  I  didn't  serve  very  long.  A  few  months.  The 
reason  I  was  taken  off  of  the  committee,  I  was  injured.  I  had  an  auto- 
mobile accident  which  necessitated  a  6-months  leave  of  absence,  and  I 
never  again  served  on  that  committee. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  learn  who  succeeded  you  on  that  com- 
mittee ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No,  I  didn't.    I  have  no  idea. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  have  in  your  possession  any  documentary 
evidence  of  the  giving  of  directions  or  orders  to  you  by  Louise  Todd  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  have  a  communication  that  I  carried  when  I  made 
collections.  In  other  words,  as  a  responsible  comrade,  I  presented  a 
document  to  prove  that  I  did  represent  the  party  and  to  make  the 
people  who  were  contributing  sure  that  their  money  was  going  to  the 

P^ty- 
Mr.  Tavenner.  And  you  exhibited  that  when  soliciting  funds  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes.    That  was  my  passport. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  have  it  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  I  do  have  it. 


1472  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  have  it  with  you  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  exhibit  it,  please  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  will  be  glad  to  [exhibiting  document]. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  letter  which  you  have  presented  to  the  com- 
mittee is  on  the  letterhead  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  that  is  true. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  heading  is  "Communist  Party,  224  South 
Spring  Street,  Los  Angeles,  Calif."    I  will  read  the  letter. 

November  9,  1934. 
Dear  Friend  :  This  letter  introduces  Comrade  Mildred  Ashe  who  is  authorized 
by  the  section  committee  of  our  party  to  accept  your  monthly  pledge  to  our 
activities.    We  want  to  thank  you  again  for  this  splendid  help  to  the  party. 
With  comradely  greetings, 

Louise  Todd, 
Section  Organizer. 

And  then  there  is  a  stamp  over  the  signature, 

Communist  Party,  District  13,  Los  Angeles  Section,  U.  S.  A. 

May  we  have  the  use  of  this  letter  for  purposes  of  photostating  it? 
We  will  be  glad  to  return  it  to  you. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  All  right.  Having  kept  it  this  long  I  would  hate  to 
part  with  it  for  very  long. 

Mr.  Wood.  The  committee  will  return  it  to  your  personal  custody. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  am  very  happy  to  loan  it  to  the  committee. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  will  offer  the  letter  in  evidence  and 
ask  that  it  be  marked  "Ashe  Exhibit  No.  1" — "Mildred  Ashe  Exhibit 
No.  1." 

Mr.  Wood.  It  will  be  received.1 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  have  your  Communist  Party  book  that  was 
issued  to  you  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  I  do  have. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  present  it,  please. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  All  right  [producing  document] . 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Does  the  book  contain  stamps  showing  the  payments 
of  dues? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  it  does.  I  would  like  to  call  the  committee's  atten- 
tion, if  I  may,  to  one  stamp  in  there,  that  is  what  is  known  as  a 
solidarity  stamp. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Solidarity  stamp  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes.  This  is  different  than  the  monthly  dues  stamp. 
It  was  a  stamp  issued  for  assisting  the  underground  movement  in 
Germany  which  was  fighting  Hitler. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  was  a  contribution  to  the  establishment  of  under- 
ground work  in  Germany,  underground  work  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  the  date  of  that  stamp  or  the  date 
when  you  purchased  that  stamp  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No.    It  is  indicated  in  the  book. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  more  about  the  method 
used  to  obtain  those  contributions  and  how  they  were  handled? 

1  See  appendix  to  be  printed  in  separate  volume  for  photographic  reproduction. 


COMMUNISM   EST   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1473 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  it  was  a  regular  assessment  stamp,  and  I  believe 
once  a  month  or  so  you  bought  a  solidarity  stamp,  and  I  think  you 
paid  the  same  amount  for  it  that  you  did  for  your  monthly  stamp. 
In  other  words,  if  you  paid  25  cents  a  month,  if  you  were  unemployed, 
or  10  cents  a  month,  or  whatever,  then  you  paid  the  same  amount  for 
the  solidarity  stamp. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  Communist  Party  book  which  you  have  handed 
the  committee  is  for  1939,  membership  book,  and  it  bears  No.  8218. 
It  shows  on  its  face  that  the  book  was  issued  on  February  16,  1938, 
and  bears  the  signature  of  William  Schneiderman.  He  is  one  of  the 
Communists  now  under  indictment,  I  believe.  The  book  also  con- 
tains— it  has  scheduled  monthly  payments,  dues  payments  for  1939, 
a  copy  of  the  constitution  of  the  Communist  Party.  I  would  like  very 
much  to  borrow  this  from  you  with  the  idea  of  photostating  it  and 
returning  it  to  you. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  sir ;  you  may  have  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  desire  to  offer  it  in  evidence  and  ask  that  it  be 
marked  "Mildred  Ashe  Exhibit  No.  2." 

Mr.  Wood.  It  will  be  received  for  that  purpose.1 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Returning  now  again  to  your  work  on  the  secret 
committee,  the  reserve  committee,  who  was  the  leader  among  that 
group  of  three  who  constituted  that  committee  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Ida  Miller  was  acting  as  instructor,  with  the  under- 
standing that  I  would  be  the  head  of  the  committee.     When  we 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  receive  instructions  from  any  person  other 
than  Ida  Miller? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  have  any  information  of  any  underground 
activities  of  the  Communist  Party  in  this  area  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No.     No  ;  not  underground. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  state  you  withdrew  from  the  Com- 
munist Party  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  withdrew  in  1939.  I  don't  know  the  month.  It 
shows  in  the  book,  whenever  the  last  stamp  is.  I  should  say  about 
June  of  1939  was  the  last  time  I  paid  dues. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Before  asking  you  to  tell  the  committee  the  circum- 
stances under  which  you  resigned,  I*  would  like  to  ask  you  just  one 
or  two  other  questions.  Were  you  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the 
name  of  Rose  Bush  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  I  was.     I  knew  Rose. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  she  a  member  or  affiliated  with  the  Commu- 
nist Party  in  any  way  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  She  represented  herself  as  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party.  She  came  to  Los  Angeles  as  a  very  top  secret  comrade  who 
had  been  in  underground  work  in  Germany  and  was  here  for  the 
purpose  of  raising  money  for  the  German  underground,  and  I  worked 
with  her  to  acquaint  her  with  some  of  the  people  who  might  help 
her  financially  and  arranged  a  meeting  at  the  home  of  Joe  Gollumb  on 
Hillcrest  Road. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Joe  who? 


1  See  appendix  to  be  printed  in  a  separate  volume  for  photographic  reproduction. 


1474  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Joe  Gollumb,  G-o-l-l-u-m-b,  and  at  that  time  Rose — Mr. 
Gollumb  did  get  a  group  of  people  together.  I  don't  remember  any  of 
their  names,  because  none  of  them  were  familiar  to  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  should  ask  you  at  this  point,  Was  Mr.  Gollumb 
known  to  you  to  be  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No;  he  was  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  mean  by  that  you  know  that  he  was  not  a 
member  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No  ;  I  mean  I — to  my  knowledge  he  was  not  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  proceed,  please. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  And  Rose  Bush  made  quite  a  lengthy  speech  that  night. 
Some  of  the  people — well,  frankly,  they  thought  she  was  phony  and 
asked  her  a  little  about  Germany ;  and  she  said,  well,  that  she  hadn't 
brought  anything  out  of  Germany,  that  she  had  to  come  out  with 
clean  suitcases.  In  other  words,  she  couldn't  bring  out  any  identifica- 
tion at  all,  but  she  did  show  credentials  presumably  from  the  execu- 
tive committee  of  the  Communist  International  on  a  little  white  satin 
ribbon. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  did  the  white  satin  ribbon  have  written  on  it? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That  I  do  not  know.  I  don't  remember,  but  that  was 
her  credential,  and  the  reason  I  recall  it  is  because  when  Lawrence 
Ross,  who  at  that  time  was  the  organizational  secretary,  found  out 
she  had  exhibited  that  in  a  public  meeting,  she  was  severely  criticized 
for  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  at  any  time  learn  anything  further  re- 
garding the  character  of  that  identification,  the  white  ribbon? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No.  That  is  the  only  time  I  ever  heard  of  a  white  rib- 
bon or  saw  the  white  ribbon,  but  I  saw  the  white  ribbon. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  did  Rose  Bush  spell  her  last  name? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  B-u-s-h. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  For  the  benefit  of  the  committee,  may  I  say  that  the 
committee's  investigation  at  an  earlier  date  discloses  that  a  similar 
ribbon  was  signed,  for  identification  purposes,  by  Max  Bedacht. 

Were  you  acquainted  with  Robert  Minor,  M-i-n-o-r? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes;  I  knew  Robert  Minor  very  well.  Mr.  Ashe  toured 
the  State  of  California  with  Mr.  Minor  on  a  speaking  tour,  and  I 
tagged  along.  We  were  out  maybe  2  or  3  weeks  on  a  speaking  tour. 
It  was  during  the  election  campaign  when  Mr.  Ashe  was  running  for 
secretary  of  state  for  California. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  On  the  Communist  Party  ticket? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  On  the  Communist  Party  ticket,  And  at  the  same 
time — it  was  during  that  time  that  Mr.  Upton  Sinclair  had  his  EPIC 
movement,  the  End  Poverty  in  California  movement. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  whether  or  not  at  this 
time  the  Communist  Party  dictated  any  change  of  policy  with  re- 
gard to  the  support  that  it  should  give  to  the  candidates  in  that  par- 
ticular election? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  The  decision  in  California  of  the — the  executive  com- 
mittee in  California  had  made  the  decision  that  the  Communist  Party 
should  support  Mi".  Sinclair  for  Governor.  When  Mr.  Minor  came 
to  California,  he  had  meetings.  I  didn't  attend  the  meetings,  but  I 
heard  discussions  of  the  meetings.  Mr.  Sinclair's  program  was  one 
of  cooperatives.    He  wanted  to  set  up  cooperatives  in  which  people 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1475 

would  grow  their  own  food  and  make  their  own  clothes;  in  other 
words,  start  eating.  Mr.  Minor  reversed  the  decision  of  the  Cali- 
fornia executive  committee.  He  was  a  member  at  that  time  of  the 
central  committee,  and  I  believe  a  member  of  the  Communist  Inter- 
national. 

He  said  that  we  should  not  support  Mr.  Sinclair,  not  because  the 
program  wouldn't  work,  but  because  the  program  would  work  too 
well.  I  know  that  Mr.  Ashe  had  to  change  all  of  his  approach — I 
mean  in  his  speaking — and  that  Mr.  Minor  spoke  very  strongly  against 
Mr.  Sinclair. 

May  I  venture  an  opinion  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  In  my  opinion,  if  Mr.  Minor  had  stayed  home  and  the 
Communists  had  supported  Mr.  Sinclair,  he  would  have  been  Gov- 
ernor.   That's  how  much  difference  that  decision  made. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  have 

Mrs.  Ashe.  May  I  add  to  that? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  do  not  understand. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  May  I  add  to  that  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes ;  if  you  would  like  to. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Subsequently  the  decision  was  reversed,  but  the  election 
was  over.  Then  they  decided  they  better  get  into  the  EPIC  meetings 
and  start  working. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  you  give  the  initials  of  an  organization,  I 
wish  you  would  follow  it  by  the  exact  title. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I'm  sorry.  End  Poverty  in  California.  I  think  Mr. 
Sinclair  would  like  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  have  any  experience  with  the  disciplinary 
committee  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes.  I  had  occasion  to  be  before  the  disciplinary  com- 
mittee a  few  times. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  describe  the  way  in  which  the  disciplinary 
committee  functioned  and  who  were  members  of  it. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  on  one  occasion  Tashjian,  Dr.  Tashjian,  the  den- 
tist, was  head  of  the  disciplinary  committee;  Clara  and  Bill  Ward 
were  on  the  committee,  and  I  believe  that  Nat  Praeger,  but  I'm  not 
sure. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  the  instance  that  you  are  referring  to  consti- 
tute that  situation  that  developed  which  your  husband  described, 
where  you  were  required  to  take  a  beginner's  course  over  again? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No.    That  was  another  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That  was  another  time  ?  If  it  is  another  time,  will 
you  tell  us  about  it  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  this  had  to  do  with  a  decision  that  had  been  made 
by  a  joint  fraction  meeting  of  the  Federal  writers'  project  and  the 
Federal  theater  project.  All  Communists  who  were  working  on  those 
projects  met  together  in  this  fraction  meeting  at  the  home  of  two 
comrades,  Walter  McElroy  and  Wilben  Holther.  We  called  him 
Wilben.  I  think  his  name  was  William  Benjamin  and  his  mother  had 
contracted  it  to  Wilben.  At  that  time  I  had  one  of  my  assignments 
and  that  was  as  organizer  of  the  American  Writers'  Union. 


81595— 51— pt.  4- 


1476  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

I  believe  at  that  time  I  was  employed  in  the  theater  project  as  play 
reader.  The  head  of  that  department,  Mr.  Pearlman,  had  had  a  play 
produced  by  the  theater  project,  and  the  man  who  was  head  of  it,  Mr. 
Miller,  refused  to  pay  him  royalty.  He  had  come  to  the  American 
Writers'  Union  as  a  member  and  asked  us  to  ask  Mr.  Miller's  removal 
from  the  Federal  theater  project. 

The  Dramatists'  Guild  at  the  same  time  had  been  asked  the  same 
thing-,  because  Mr.  Pearlman  also  belonged  to  the  Dramatists'  Guild. 
The  Dramatist's  Guild  had  supported  him.  They  had  sent  letters 
asking  for  the  removal  of  Mr.  Miller.  The  American  Writers'  Union 
had  to  follow  the  fraction  decision  of  the  Communist  Party  members 
at  this  particular  meeting  and  had  voted  not  to  support  Mr.  Pearlman. 
As  a  result  we  went  into  the  American  Writers'  Union,  and  the  only 
people  who  didn't  vote  to  support  it  were  the  Communists,  who  are 
supposed  to  support  workers  when  they  are  trying  to  raise  wages.  I 
voted  to  support  Mr.  Pearlman.  In  other  words,  I  went  against  the 
fraction  decision  because  I  felt 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  deviated  from  the  Communist  Party  instruc- 
tions, or  the  Communist  Party  line? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes;  I  did.  I  maintained  it  was  a  mechanical  decision 
which  Jim  Thorme  had  forced  on  us,  who  at  that  time,  I  believe,  was 
the  organizational  Secretary  and  representing  the  executive  commit- 
tee on  the  Los  Angeles  section.  I  felt  it  was  a  mechanical  decision.  I 
didn't  feel  that  if  we  were  going  to  support  the  working  class  that  it 
Avas  right  when  a  thing  came  up  to  try  to  raise  money,  to  get  pay  for 
work,  that  the  Communists  had  any  right  to  say  we  won't  support  that. 
So  I  supported  it.  As  a  result  I  was  called  before  the  disciplinary 
committee. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  other  words,  that  is  an  instance  of  Communist 
Party  discipline  for  deviation  from  the  decisions  made  on  a  higher 
level  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  that  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  represented  the  theatrical  group  at  this  meet- 
ing; do  you  recall? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  that  is  a  little  difficult.  Betty  Arden  was  there; 
Mary  Virginia  Farmer  was  there;  and  aside  from  Mr.  Holther  and 
Mr.  McElroy  I  don't  recall  any  other  people. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  personally  acquainted  with  Mary  Vir- 
ginia Farmer? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No  ;  I  wasn't.    I  didn't  know  her. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  was  she  employed  at  that  time? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  She  was  employed  by  the  Federal  theater  project  in 
rather  a  high  capacity.  I  remember  that  one  of  my  objections  to  the 
fraction  meeting  was  that  this  woman  presumably  was  never  to  be 
exposed  as  a  Communist  Party  member,  so  they  bring  her  into  a  frac- 
tion meeting  that  is  not  only  a  fraction  meeting  of  the  theater  project 
but  a  joint  meeting  with  the  writers'  project- 
Mr.  Tavenner.  By  fraction  meeting,  are  you  referring  to  a  meet- 
ing of  representatives  from  different  branches  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No.  I  am  referring — a  fraction  was  made  up  all  people 
who  were  Communist  Party  members  who  were  working  within  any 
given  organization  or  job  or  whatever.  In  other  words,  Communists, 
work  as  a  bloc. 


to 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1477 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  in  referring  to  a  fraction  meeting  you  were  re- 
ferring to  a  Communist  Party  meeting  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  A  Communist  Party  meeting,  made  up  of  Communist 
Party  members  in  a  joint  fraction.  In  other  words,  the  fraction  from 
the  Federal  theater  project  and  the  fraction  from  the  Federal  writers' 
project  were  meeting  jointly. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  was  at  this  Communist  fraction  meeting  that 
Mary  Virginia  Farmer  appeared  and  took  part  in  the  discussion? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  To  whom  did  you  make  your  complaint  about  per- 
mitting her  appearance  and  disclosure  at  this  meeting? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  don't  believe  I  made  a  complaint.  I  think  the  com- 
plaint was  made  against  me  for  going  against  party  decision. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  the  circumstances  under 
which  you  severed  your  connection  with  the  Communist  Party  eventu- 
ally? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  I  started  withdrawing  from  the  party  in  1936. 
I  was  injured  in  February  of  1936.  I  had  gotten  so  tired,  so  worn  out, 
I  was  run  dry.  I  felt  that  I  was  in  a  voluntary  servitude  that  was 
becoming  most  involuntary.  I  was  ill.  I  saw  my  marriage  going  on 
the  rocks,  and  from  February  of  1936  I  was  not  a  very  good  Com- 
munist.   It  took  me  3  years  to  sever  all  connections. 

It  is  like  a  race  horse.  A  race  horse  gets  to  the  winning  line  and 
then  canters  a  little,  you  know,  before  they  stop.  Well,  it  took  me  3 
years  to  canter  to  a  stop  in  such  a  way  that  nobody  knew  I  was  out. 
I  did  a  MacArthur,  I  just  sort  of  faded  out. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  do  you  think  led  you  more  definitely  than 
anything  else  to  make  the  break  from  the  Communist  Party? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  think  I  know  what  you  are  leading  up  to,  but  that  is- 
something  that  I  did  a  few  notes  on. 

I  can't  say  that  I  became  so  completely  disillusioned  with  the  Com- 
munist Party  that  I  wanted  to  break  with  it.  That  came  lfiter.  Be- 
cause when  you  are  in  the  party  you  are  in  a  state  of  mesmerism. 

As  my  husband  stated,  you  don't  think  for  yourself  at  all.  You 
work  16  and  18  hours  a  day,  you  don't  have  enough  food,  you  don't 
have  anything.  And  after  3  years  of  that  we  got  a  little  tired.  I  got 
tireder  than  anybody  else,  evidently.  It  wasn't  until  I  was  away  from 
the  party  and  had  been  away  for  quite  a  little  while  that  I  began  to 
get  perspective  on  it  and  began  to  realize  what  a  vicious,  rotten,  sub- 
versive thing  it  is. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  your  break  with  the  Communist  Party  a  definite 
and  final  break  in  all  respects? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  If  I  thought  that  through  any  weird  machination  of 
fate  I  should  ever  again  be  put  into  the  Communist  Party  I  would 
rather  open  up  my  veins  and  let  all  the  blood  out  of  my  body.  I  don": 
want  any  more  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter. 

Mr.  Walter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle. 

Mr.  Dotee.  I  notice,  Mrs.  Ashe,  the  dues  book  which  you  produced, 
in  which  the  stamps  are  posted,  does  show  the  last  posting  as  of  June 
1939.  In  this  book,  also,  is  the  constitution  and  bylaws  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  of  the  United  States.    I  don't  find  any  place  in  it  where 


1478  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

there  is  any  declaration  of  support  of  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No. 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  doubt  you  have  read  it.  But  I  can't  find  anywhere 
where  any  member  of  the  Communist  Party  is  pledged  to  uphold  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States.  Do  you  know  of  any  such  declara- 
tion? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No,  there  isn't.  I  don't  know  how  other  people  feel. 
Personally,  I  am  an  American ;  I  was  born  in  Joplin,  Mo.,  I  am  very 
proud  of  being  an  American,  I  am  very  proud  of  the  flag  and  I  am 
very  proud  of  my  citizenship.  It  never  occurred  to  me  that  I  was  ever 
forfeiting  any  of  that  by  belonging  to  this. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  have  studied  it,  too,  the  last  30  minutes  that  you  have 
been  testifying  so  helpfully.  With  reference  to  this  stamp  which  you 
identified  as  the  international  solidarity  stamp,  I  find  a  section  of  the 
constitution  and  bylaws  which  specifies  that  that  shall  be  spent,  the 
moneys  raised  thus,  shall  be  spent  entirely  for  the  aid  and  help  of 
brother  Communists  in  other  countries. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  notice,  however,  that  the  letter  of  identification  which 
you  also  let  the  committee  use,  specifies  that  you  were  authorized  to 
accept  monthly  pledges. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  It  says  nothing  about  monthly  dues. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  these  were  not  party  members  that  I  collected 
from,  you  see. 

Mr.  Doyle.  That  is  as  far  as  you  knew  you  were 

Mrs.  Ashe.  As  far  as  I  knew ;  that's  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  remember  you  said  that  on  one  occasion  you  discovered 
later  they  had  been  party  members. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes.     But  as  far  as  I  knew  they  were  sympathizers. 

Mr.  Doyle.  In  this  constitution  and  bylaws  book  I  find  that  on  this 
solidarity  stamp  there  is  a  provision  that  every  4  months  all  members 
of  the  party  shall  pay  an  assessment  equal  to  average  dues  payment  per 
month  for  the  previous  4  months.  That  that  is  the  money  that  goes 
for  the  solidarity  stamp.  In  other  words,  it  is  apparently  a  particular 
fund  which  is  collectible  only  once  in  4  months  ? 
,    Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  And  is  equal  to  the  monthly  assessment  for  4  months. 
Do  I  understand  from  your  testimony  that  there  was  a  considerable 
list  of  people  whom  you  did  not  know  to  be  Communist  Party  members 
who  made  monthly  pledges  ?    Was  it  a  long  list  of  people  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  I  had  a  long  list,  but  I  wasn't  always  able  to  con- 
tact them.  I  mean,  there  were  people  on  the  list,  but  they  were  people 
that  somebody  else  maybe  came  in  and  said,  "Look,  so  and  so  is  sym- 
pathetic, why  don't  you  send  somebody  out  and  see  if  you  can  raise 
some  money  from  them  ? " 

Mr.  Doyle.  About  how  many  would  you  say  were  on  your  list  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  would  say  there  were  maybe  20,  25  names  on  that  list. 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  doubt  there  were  other  collectors  who  had  similar 
lists? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  think  not.    At  that  time  I  think  I  had  the  only  one. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  do  you  suppose  the  largest  sum  was  that  you  ever 
thus  collected  from  any  one  person  at  any  one  time  ? 


COMMUNISM   EST   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1479 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Not  very  much.  I  wouldn't  say  more  than  $40  or  $50, 
maybe  as  much  as  a  hundred. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  classification  of  an  individual  would  pay  that 
much  as  a  special  pledge,  do  you  remember? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  They  were  people  who  were  making  quite  a  bit  of 
money.  I  mean,  they  were  people  who  were  working  in  the  studios 
and  got  good  salaries. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  notice  you  referred  to  the  YCL.  That  is  the  Young 
Communist  League  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  that  is  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  also  mentioned  that  there  was  a  children's  organ- 
ization ;  is  that  one  and  the  same  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No.  The  YCL  was  made  up  of  young  people  between 
the  ages,  I  would  say,  maybe  12  to  18,  or  something  like  that.  I  mean 
the  adolescents.  The  Schuler  was  an  organization  of  Jewish  children 
who  were  brought  together — I  think — about  once  a  week  I  think  they 
met.  And  what  they  actually  were  being  instructed  in  was  the 
language,  the  Jewish  language,  and  so  forth.  Whether  they  got  party 
line  or  not,  I  don't  know. 

Mr.  Doyle.  But  under  the  auspices  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  believe  that  was  a  separate  organization,  but  the 
parents  were  Communists. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  would  say  then  that  all  of  the  parents  of  those  chil- 
dren who  were  being  thus  instructed  were  Communists  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  would  say  that  the  majority  of  them  were. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Now,  as  to  the  YCL.  How  extensive  an  organization 
was  that  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Well,  it  was  quite  extensive.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  I 
think  the  membership  of  the  YCL  must  have  closely  approximated 
that  of  the  party. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  the  party  spend  money  and  hire  people  to  work  in 
this  YCL,  which  was  the  children's  work  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  No  ;  they  didn't  hire  any.  They  assigned  you.  As  a 
matter  of  fact,  I  was  assigned  to  the  YCL  one  time  for  2  or  3  weeks 
until  something  else  came  up.  You  weren't  paid,  you  just  took  what- 
ever assignments  were  handed  to  you.  For  instance,  if  I  went  into  the 
Young  Communist  League  I  would  go  as  a  representative  of  the  party, 
offering  whatever  advice  I  could  to  them.  But  they  were  a  pretty 
self-sufficient  group  of  people.  I  mean,  these  kids  had  their  own 
parties,  they  had  their  own  money-raising  things,  they  did  their  own 
recruiting.  Their  line  was  formed  along  the  party  line  with  the  help 
of  a  party  member. 

Mr.  Doyle.  To  what  extent  were  they  educated  in  and  encouraged 
to  participate  in  learning  and  accomplishing  the  Communist  Party 
program  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  They  use  exactly  the  same  party  line,  the  same  litera- 
ture, the  same  everything  that  the  older  comrades  used.  They  had  in- 
struction every  so  often,  I  mean  like  once  a  week  or  so  they  had  their 
regular  educationals.     It  was  formed  like  the  adult  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Would  you  say  then  that  the  adult  Communist  Party 
was  placing  emphasis  upon  the  YCL  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  There  were  times  I  thought  the  YCL  was  placing  em- 
phasis on  the  party.  I  mean,  they  were  much  more  militant  in  many 
ways  than  the  party  was.     They  were  quite  a  crowd. 


1480  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Doyle.  Those  were  children  then  of  junior  and  senior  high- 
school  age,  I  understand  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  they  were. 

Mr.  Doyle.  How  did  they  pick  the  young  people  to  join  the  YCL? 
Where  did  they  come  from  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  They  picked  themselves.  They  went  out  and  recruited 
members  just  exactly  the  way  the  Communist  Party  did. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  they  have  any  dues? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes ;  they  had  dues. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  think  that's  all. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mrs.  Ashe,  I  believe  you  mentioned  in  the  course  of 
your  testimony  that  you  made  several  trips  to  Malibu  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Have  you  identified  those  persons  whom  you  called 
upon  in  Malibu  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  I  have. 

J.  Stander  had  a  home  down  there,  and  I  collected  from  Jay  when 
he  had  his  home  in  Malibu.    Lionel  Stander. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Previous  testimony  before  the  committee  has  been 
introduced  to  indicate  that  there  was  a  tithe  system  of  payment  in 
addition  to  the  monthly  dues,  which  was  sometimes  based  upon  the 
weekly  or  monthly  earnings  of  the  individual. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes;  that's  correct. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Did  these  individuals  whom  you  contacted  in  this 
regard  pay  on  that  basis? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  don't  know,  because  I  didn't  know  them  as  Communist 
Party  members.  I  only  knew  them  as  people  who  were  sympathetic 
to  the  party  and  were  willing  to  contribute  to  the  party  on  a  monthly 
basis. 

Mr.  Jackson.  During  the  period  of  time  that  you  acted  in  that 
capacity  can  you  give  the  committee  on  estimate  of  the  amount  of 
money  that  you  collected  ?  I  realize  it  would  have  to  be  a  very  rough 
approximation. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  It  would.  In  fact,  it  is  virtually  impossible  to  do  it. 
I  would  like  to  be  helpful,  but  I  couldn't. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Was  it  in  the  hundreds  or  was  it  in  the  thousands  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  I  would  say  in  the  hundreds. 

Mr.  Jackson.  In  the  hundreds  of  dollars  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  understand,  and  it  has  been  reiterated  time  and  time 
again,  that  there  is  no  such  thing  as  independent  judgment,  so  far  as 
a  Communist  is  concerned,  or  so  far  as  the  Communist  Party  is 
concerned. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That  is  correct.  The  individual  counts  for  nothing, 
everything  is  the  mass.  The  individual  as  an  individual  is  not  impor- 
tant.   I  would  like  to  illustrate  that,  if  I  may. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Please  do. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  This,  incidentally,  has  to  do  with  another  disciplinary 
committee  meeting.  We  had  Dr.  Tashjian  to  contend  with,  as  you 
have  heard,  and  he  was  a  little  worried  because  some  of  the  married 
couples  in  the  party  were  in  the  same  units,  and  he  contended  that 
they  went  home  and  discussed  everything  and  came  back  and  voted 
as  a  block.    So  he  tried  to  put  through  a  ruling  that  married  couples 


COMMUNISM   IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1481 

were  not  permitted  to  belong  to  the  same  unit.  Incidentally,  we 
picketed  the  party.  It  is  probably  the  only  time  in  the  history  of  the 
party  that  the  party  was  picketed. 

Mr.  Jackson.  The  husbands  and  wives  picketed  the  party  in  pro- 
test? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes,  we  did.     And  we  carried  banners. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Then  there  is  no  such  thing,  obviously,  as  objective 
debate  over  which  of  two  alternate  courses  of  action  should  be  fol- 
lowed ? 

Mr.  Ashe.  That  is  exactly  the  situation. 

Mr.  Jackson.  In  sum  then,  you  can  say  that  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  is  simply  a  machine  with  no  human  reactions, 
so  far  as  his  ability  to  think  independently  or  to  act  independently 
are  concerned  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That  is  very  correct. 

Mr.  Jackson.  He  is  a  robot  who  is  entirely  responsible  to  an  alien 
philosophy  and  an  alien  doctrine  and  owes  no  allegiance  to  the  United 
States  of  America  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That  I  will  stop  you  on  just  a  moment.  I  want  to 
illustrate  it.  For  instance,  I  remember  someone  asked  Mr.  Earl 
Browder  whether  or  not  he  would  permit  his  children  to  salute  the 
American  flag.     He  said,  "Certainly.     It's  their  flag." 

As  I  stated  before,  I  had  no  feeling  myself  that  I  had  given  up  any- 
thing in  the  way  of  citizenship  rights,  and  it  was  only  until  I  was 
away  that  I  began  to  realize  that  the  propaganda  is  so  insidious  and 
so  constant,  and  wears  you  down  to  such  an  extent  that  you  find 
yourself  voting  and  working  for  Mr.  Stalin. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Of  course,  Mr.  Browder  fell  into  disrepute  in  the 
Communist  Party. 

Mrs.  Ashe.  This,  I  believe,  was  even  before  that.  Maybe  that 
was  one  of  the  things  that  put  him  in  disrepute. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Without  respect  to  what  your  feelings  were,  or  what 
your  thoughts  were  at  the  time  you  were  a  member,  is  it  true  that 
you  have  since  come  to  the  position  I  stated  a  few  minutes  ago,  that 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  is  a  robot  without  any  independ- 
ence of  action  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  He  has  absolutely  no  opportunity  to  do  anything  for 
himself.  For  one  thing  he  doesn't  have  time.  You  know,  they  talk 
about  exploiting  the  working  class.  Believe  me,  the  capitalist  sys- 
tem can  learn  something  about  exploitation,  the  way  they  exploit 
their  members. 

Mr.  Jackson.  In  the  event  of  war  between  this  country  and  the 
Soviet  Union,  where  would  the  average  Communist,  out  of  your 
experience,  be  found ;  on  the  side  of  the  United  States  or  on  the  side 
of  the  Soviet  Union  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  On  the  side  of  the  Soviet  Union. 

Mr.  Jackson.  There  is  no  question  in  your  mind  as  to  that  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Absolutely  not. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  no  more  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter. 
$  Mr.  Potter.  Mrs.  Ashe,  you  mentioned  in  your  testimony  your  ac- 
tivity as  a  member  of  a  fraction.     I  think  that  many  people  would 
like  to  have  you  elaborate  on  that  and  explain  just  what  a  fraction  is. 
But  before  you  do  I  am  wondering  if  this  is  not  the  case.     The  Com- 


1482  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

munist  Party  was  charged  with  a  responsibility,  a  duty  to  set  up 
fractions  in  as  many  mass  organizations  as  possible ;  is  that  not  correct? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Potter.  If  three  or  more  members  of  the  Communist  Party  are 
in  a  mass  organization  they  automatically  establish  that  fraction ;  is 
that  true  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Potter.  Then  your  fraction,  or  your  Communist  members  of  a 
mass  organization  meet  and  determine  the  Communist  policy  line  and 
try  to  apply  that  Communist  Party  line  within  the  mass  organiza- 
tion ;  is  that  not  true  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes.  Then  when  there  is  a  meeting  of  the  organization 
they  go  in  and  vote  as  a  block. 

Mr.  Potter.  They  vote  as  a  block  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes. 

Mr.  Potter.  And  by  so  doing,  acting  with  a  singleness  of  purpose, 
many  fractions  of  very  few  in  number  can  control  mass  organizations 
of  hundreds  of  people ;  is  that  not  correct  ? 

Mrs.  Ashe.  Yes;  that's  true. 

Mr.  Potter.  That's  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Thank  you  very  much,  Mrs.  Ashe,  for  your  appearance 
here  and  for  your  valuable  testimony  before  the  committee. 

Mr.  Counsel,  is  there  any  reason  why  this  witness  should  not  be 
excused  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  It  is  so  ordered. 

Who  do  you  have  next  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Michael  Gordon. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  Mr.  Gordon. 

Mr.  Gordon.  Yes. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Gordon,  will  you  hold  up  your  right  hand  and  be 
sworn.  You  solemnly  swear  the  evidence  you  give  this  committee 
shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help 
you  God  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  do. 

TESTIMONY  OF  MICHAEL  GORDON,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HIS  COUNSEL, 

A.  L.  WIRIN 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  represented  by  counsel,  Mr.  Gordon  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  counsel  identify  himself  for  the  record,  please. 

Mr.  Wirin.  A.  L.  Wirin,  257  South  Spring  Street,  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  Michael  Gordon  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  Yes. 

Mr.  Wood.  Before  beginning,  Mr.  Gordon,  under  the  rules  of  this 
committee  you  have  a  perfect  right  to  consult  your  counsel  at  any  time 
you  see  fit  to  do  so,  and  obtain  from  him  any  advice  or  information 
that  you  desire  concerning  your  rights  as  a  witness  here  before  this 
committee. 

Mr.  Gordon.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Wood.  And  that  goes  for  any  other  witness  that  appears  before 
this  committee. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  Mr.  Michael  Gordon  ? 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1483 

Mr.  Gordon.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  and  when  were  you  born,  Mr.  Gordon  % 

Mr.  Gordon.  Baltimore,  Md.,  September  6,  1909. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  do  you  live  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  At  the  moment  at  the  Portal  Motel  on  Cahuenga 
Boulevard. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  you  occupation  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  am  a  screen  director,  and  I  formerly  was  a  stage 
director. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  briefly  for  the  committee  what  your 
educational  background  has  been. 

Mr.  Gordon.  The  public  elementary  and  high  schools  of  Baltimore, 
Md.,  the  Johns  Hopkins  University,  Yale  University. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  speak  just  a  little  bit  louder,  please.  I 
understood  you  but  with  some  difficulty. 

What  has  been  your  employment  record,  in  brief  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  arrived  in  New  York  in  1932.  From  1932  to  1940 
I  was  variously  employed  as  an  actor,  assistant  stage  manager,  stage 
manager,  assistant  director,  and  director.  In  1940  I  came  to  Holly- 
wood, where  I  worked  as  a  dialog  director,  then  later  as  a  director. 
In  an  interim  period,  from  1943  to  1946,  in  theater  again,  and  from 
1946  until  April  of  this  year  I  was  here  as  a  director. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  are  some  of  the  principal  pictures  which  you 
have  directed  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  The  witness  objects  to  being  photographed 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  don't  object,  Mr.  Chairman,  but  I  think  it  is  very 
distracting  if  they  stand  there  for  quite  some  time. 

Mr.  Wood.  Just  a  little  bit  closer  to  the  microphone  and  elevate 
your  voice  a  little  bit  more. 

I  will  have  to  ask  the  photographers  to  refrain  from  distracting  the 
witness. 

Mr.  Wirin.  He  has  no  objection.  He  wants  them  to  get  through, 
but  he  wants  to  go  on  and  testify. 

Mr.  Gordon.  Would  you  repeat  the  question,  Mr.  Tavenner? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  question  was,  What  are  the  principal  pictures 
that  you  have  directed? 

Mr.  Gordon.  In  chronological  order,  they  were :  Boston  Blackie 
Goes  Hollywood,  Underground  Agent,  One  Dangerous  Night,  The 
Crime  Doctor.  The  Webb.  Another  Part  of  the  Forest,  An  Act  of 
Murder,  The  Lady  Gambles,  Woman  in  Hiding,  Cyrano  de  Bergerac, 
I  Can  Get  It  for  You  Wholesale,  and  The  Secret  of  Convict  Lake. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  am  afraid  we  are  having  a  little  difficulty  hearing  you. 
Can  you  speak  just  a  little  louder? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Gordon,  are  you  acquainted  with  Mr.  Frank 
Tuttle? 

Mr.  Gordon.  Mr.  Frank  Tuttle 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That  is  the  Mr.  Frank  Tuttle  who  is  the  director, 
a  moving-picture  director.  I  believe  there  are  several  persons  by  that 
name. 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  believe  the  man  you  referred  to  appeared  before  this 
committee,  and  in  the  context  of  his  appearance  I  will  claim  the  privi- 
lege of  fifth  amendment  and  decline  to  answer  questions  of  my  alleged 
acquaintance  with  Mr.  Tuttle  on  the  ground  that  to  do  so  might  tend 
to  incriminate  me. 


1484  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mi*.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Tuttle,  as  you  have  stated,  has  appeared  before 
this  committee.  The  date  of  his  appearance  was  May  24,  1951,  at 
which  time  he  was  asked  a  question  to  name  the  directors  who  were 
associated  with  him  in  the  Communist  Party.  Among  the  questions, 
this  was  asked  him : 

If  you  will,  name  for  the  committee  who  they  were. 

That  is,  who  were  the  directors  associated  with  him  in  the  Communist 
Party. 

To  which  he  replied  : x 

Yes.  I  have  already  named  Mr.  Biberman,  who  wag  a  director,  Mr.  Dmytryk, 
myself,  Mr.  Michael  Gordon,  Mr.  Jules  Dassin.  These  two  gentlemen,  I  think, 
left  the  party.     I'm  not  sure  when.     Mr.  Bernard  Vorhaus. 

Is  it  a  correct  statement  that  you  were  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  while  a  director  in  Hollywood? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds 
stated  in  relation  to  the  previous  question. 

Mr.  Taat3nner.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  an  article  appear- 
ing on  page  5  of  the  People's  World  of  February  11, 1943.  It  is  to  the 
effect  that  one  Michael  Gordon  and  others  are  teacher-directors  at  the 
League  of  American  Writers  School.  Would  you  look  at  it  and  identify 
the  article. 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  have  seen  the  article,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  engage,  as  that  article  says,  as  a  teacher- 
director  at  the  League  of  American  Writers  School  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  believe  that  the  League  of  American  Writers  School 
and  the  League  of  American  Writers  are  both  listed  as  subversive 
organizations  by  your  committee 

Mr.  Wood.  Irrespective  of  what  the  listing  is,  you  were  asked  a 
direct  question,  and  would  you  answer  it.  Were  you  a  teacher  in  that 
school  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  grounds  I 
explained. 

Mr.  Wood.  There  is  no  necessity  to  explain  what  the  citation  has  been 
about  the  school.  If  you  refuse  to  answer  the  question  you  can  state 
your  reasons  for  not  answering  it. 

Mr.  Wirin.  He  was  also  stating  his  reasons,  sir,  as  I  understood  it. 

Mr.  Wood.  The  reason  doesn't  involve  what  happened  to  the  school. 
If  it  involves  him  he  could  so  answer.  If  the  answer  would  tend  to 
incriminate  him  he  has  a  right  to  claim  that  privilege. 

Mr.  Wirin.  My  understanding  is  that  he  was  merely  explaining  why 
he  declined  to  answer. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  was  explaining  to  the  witness. 

Do  you  decline  to  answer  the  question  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  decline  to  answer  the  question  on  the  grounds  of  the 
fifth  amendment,  on  the  ground  that  to  do  so  might  tend  to  incriminate 
me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  show  you  a  copy  of  an  advertisement  that  ap- 
peared in  the  Sunday  Worker  of  September  22,  1940,  at  page  7.  Ac- 
cording; to  this  advertisement  Michael  Gordon  was  one  of  the  directors 


1  See  Communist  Infiltration  of  Hollywood  Motion-Picture  Industry — I\irt  3,  p.  629. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1485 

of  the  New  Theater  School.  Is  that  a  correct  recital  of  fact,  namely 
that  you  were  a  director  of  the  New  Theater  School  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  will  decline  to  answer  that  question,  too,  on  the 
previously  stated  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  show  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  what  is  entitled 
"The  Original  Statement  of  the  Committee  for  the  First  Amend- 
ment," and  its  original  signers.  Will  you  examine  it,  please.  (The 
document  was  handed  to  the  witness.) 

Among  the  original  signers  appears  the  name  of  Michael  Gordon. 
Are  you  the  Michael  Gordon  referred  to  in  that  statement? 

Mr.  Gordon.  May  I  consult  with  counsel,  please,  Mr.  Chairman? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir.  You  have  that  right  at  any  time  you  desire, 
sir. 

Mr.  Gordon  (after  consulting  with  counsel).  I  decline  to  answer 
that  question,  too,  sir,  on  the  previously  stated  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  this  statement  the  signers  say  they  are  disgusted 
and  outraged  by  the  continued  attempt  of  the  House  Committee  on 
Un-American  Activities  to  smear  the  motion-picture  industry.  Do 
you  join  in  that  expression  of  opinion  that  the  House  committee  has 
smeared  the  motion-picture  industry  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  Are  you  asking  my  personal  opinion  on  this  subject? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  would  prefer  not  to  express  or  discuss  my  personal 
opinions  under  the  circumstances  of  my  appearance  here  today. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  sign  a  statement  in  which  you  stated  that 
that  was  your  opinion  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  You  have  asked  this  question  in  another  form,  sir,  a 
moment  ago.     I  have  declined  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Committee  for  the  First 
Amendment  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  This  is  the  third  time  you  have  asked  the  same  ques- 
tion, Mr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No;  I  have  not  nskerl  that  question. 

Mr.  Wood.  Let's  don't  argue.     We  will  get  along  a  lot  faster. 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  at  any  time  been  affiliated  with  the  Actors' 
Laboratory  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  claim  the  privilege  of  the  fifth  amendment  on  that 
question  as  well,  Mr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  a  letterhead  of  the  Actor's  Laboratory 
Theater — I  will  withdraw  that  question.  Were  you  at  any  time  a 
member  of  the  executive  board  of  the  Actors'  Laboratory  Theater  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  that 
to  do  so  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  other  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter. 

Mr.  Walter.  Mr.  Gordon,  what  criminal  charge  do  you  think  might 
be  preferred  against  you  if  you  were  to  admit  that  you  knew  Frank 
Turtle? 

Mr.  Gordon.  Representative  Walter,  I  am  in  no  sense  of  the  word 
equipped  to  discuss  from  a  legal  point  of  view  the  nature  of  the  fifth 
amendment.     I  believe  I  understand  its  intent,  and  I  feel  that  to 


1486  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

answer  that  question,  to  attempt  to  explain  why  I  feel  an  answer  to  a 
prior  question  might  tend  to  incriminate  me,  might  in  itself  incrimi- 
nate me.     Therefore  I  must  decline  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Walter.  You  surely  must  have  had  a  reason  for  declining  to 
answer. 

Mr.  Gordon.  Have  you  asked  a  question,  sir  ? 

Mr.  Walter.  Yes.  You  had  a  reason,  didn't  you,  for  declining  to 
answer  the  question? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  have  declined  to  answer  the  question  in  the  first  in- 
stance, and  it  seems  to  me  that  rephrasing  this  is  simply  an  attempt 
to  shake  my  position,  which  I  do  not  wish  to  have  shaken.  I  will 
stand  on  the  privilege,  sir. 

Mr.  Walter.  I  am  not  attempting  to  do  anything  of  the  sort.  I  am 
just  wondering  whether  or  not  you  aren't  arbitrarily  hiding  behind  the 
section  of  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States  that  does  not  appear 
in  the  constitution  of  Russia  or  any  of  the  iron-curtain  countries.  I 
would  like  to  know  why  you  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  would  like  to  take  issue  with  your  statement  that  I 
am  hiding  something,  sir.  That  implies  a  criticism  and  attack  not 
only  on  the  fifth  amendment  of  the  Constitution,  it  seems  to  me,  but 
on  the  citizen  who  invokes  it.  I  believe  that  this  provision  was  placed 
in  the  Constitution  not  simply  as  campaign  oratory  but  to  be  used  and 
to  be  used  in  just  such  a  situation  as  this. 

Mr.  Walter.  To  be  used,  yes ;  that's  correct. 

Mr.  WiRm.  May  I  address  the  chairman  of  the  committee  in  this 
connection,  in  connection  with  this  matter? 

Mr.  Walter.  I  haven't  yielded.  I  am  in  the  middle  of  interrogating 
the  witness,  you  see. 

Mr.  Wirin.  Would  you  yield  so  that  I  may  ask  the  chairman  a  ques- 
tion, sir? 

Mr.  Wood.  Counsel's  prerogative  in  this  committee  is  to  advise 
his  client. 

Mr.  Wirin.  I  understand.  But  you  have  ruled  that  he  doesn't  have 
to  explain  about  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Wood.  And  I  don't  want  to  have  any  argument  about  my  ruling. 

Mr.  Walter.  He  has  been  advised,  of  course.    It  is  quite  obvious. 

Mr.  Wirin.  I  have  done  the  best  that  I  could ;  yes. 

Mr.  Walter.  You  have  done  well. 

I  would  like  to  know  what  is  in  your  mind.  You  have  declined  to 
answer  the  question  as  to  whether  or  not  you  knew  somebody  on  the 
ground  that  to  admit  that  you  knew  this  man  might  subject  you  to 
a  prosecution. 

Mr.  Wirin.  Would  you  yield  to  me,  Mr.  Congressman,  for  a 
moment  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  I  will  have  to  ask  you  to  retire  from  the  hearing  room 
unless  you  remain  quiet.  You  can  advise  your  client  any  time  you 
desire,  and  that's  as  far  as  your  rights  go  here. 

Mr.  Wirin.  May  I  do  so  now  ? 

(The  witness  consulted  with  his  counsel.) 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  am  sorry,  Mr.  Walter. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1487 

Mr.  Walter.  What  I  want  to  know  is  what  prosecution  do  you  think 
could  be  lodged  against  you  for  admitting  that  you  knew  an  individual 
who  happens  to  be  employed  in  Hollywood. 

Mr.  Gordon.  Mr.  Walter,  I  believe  I  stated,  to  the  best  of  my  ability, 
that  to  attempt  to  explain  why  I  feel  an  answer  to  a  question  may 
tend  to  incriminate  me  that  the  explanation  itself  might  equally  tend 
to  incriminate.  Consequently  I  have  refused  to  answer  that  question, 
basing  my  refusal  on  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Walter.  That's  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle? 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Gordon,  are  you  devoted  to  the  Constitution  of 
the  United  States? 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  believe  I  am. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Would  you  support  and  defend  the  United  States 
of  America  in  case  of  conflict  with  the  Soviet  Union  ? 

Mr.  Gordon.  Would  you  particularize  that  question  a  little  more 
fully  ?    How  do  you  mean  "support  and  defend"  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Not  at  all.     Would  you  fight  for  this  country? 

Mr.  Gordon.  In  event  of  war  with  the  Soviet  Union  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Gordon.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Do  you  approve  the  course  of  action  taken  by  this 
country  in  Korea? 

Mr.  Gordon.  You  are  asking  again  my  personal  opinion.  I  have 
said  earlier  that  I  do  not  consider  this  an  adequate  forum  for 
myself 

Mr.  Jackson.  Every  American  citizen,  Mr.  Gordon,  has  an  opinion 
with  respect  to  the  actions  of  this  country  in  Korea.  It  is  not  invading 
the  realm  of  opinion.  Either  you  approve  of  it  or  you  don't  approve 
of  it.  I  think  it  is  a  very  simple  question  and  could  be  answered 
very  simply  by  "Yes"  or  "No." 

Mr.  Gordon.  I  prefer  not  to  discuss  my  personal  opinions  under  the 
circumstances  of  my  appearance  before  this  committee,  sir. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter? 

Mr.  Potter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  further  questions  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  why  the  witness  shouldn't  be  excused  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No  reason. 

Mr.  Charles  Daggett. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  raise  your  right  hand  and  be  sworn,  please. 
You  do  solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  shall  give  this  subcom- 
mittee shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth, 
so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  So  help  me  God. 

Mr.  Wood.  Proceed.  Will  you  be  seated?  Are  you  represented 
by  counsel  ? 


1488  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Daggett.  Yes;  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  counsel  give  his  name  and  address. 

Mr.  Kenney.  Robert  Kenny,  250  North  Hope,  Los  Angeles. 

TESTIMONY  OF  CHARLES  DAGGETT,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HIS 
COUNSEL,  ROBERT  W.  KENNY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  Mr.  Charles  Daggett? 

Mr.  Daggett1.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  Springfield,  Mo. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  been  your  educational  background  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  The  public  schools  and  the  high  school  in  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  have  you  been  employed  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  All  of  my  life  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No  ;  since 

Mr.  Daggett.  All  my  working  life,  that  is  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Since  you  have  been  earning  a  living. 

Mr.  Daggett.  As  a  newspaperman  from  1928  until  1939  or  1940, 
principally. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Just  a  moment.  Where  were  you  a  newspaperman 
between  1928  and  1940? 

Mr.  Daggett.  Well.  I  worked  on  the  Los  Angeles  Times  three  times. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  Once  as  a  sports  writer  when  I  was  going  to  high 
school.  I  can't  remember  the  exact  date.  Around  1928,  I  believe; 
1 927, 1926.  My  first  regular  newspaper  job  was  on  the  old  Los  Angeles 
Record  from  about  1929  until  1932  or  1933,  I  believe.  I  worked  on 
the  Los  Angeles  Examiner  here.  I  worked  on  the  Los  Angeles  Daily 
News,  and  I  worked  on  Daily  Variety  in  Hollywood.  I  have  also 
worked  on  the  Seattle  Star  in  Seattle, 

Mr.  Tavenner.  All  right,  sir.  What  other  employment  have  you 
had  more  recently? 

Mr.  Daggett.  Since  about  1940,  except  for  a  period  of  time  when  I 
did  work  on  Variety,  I  have  been  a  publicist  and  a  public  relations 
counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Acting  for  whom? 

Mr.  Daggett.  A  rather  large  list,  if  you  don't  mind.  I  worked  for 
Selznick — David  Selznick  pictures.  I  worked  for  Samuel  Goldwyn. 
I  was  a  public  relations  counsel  and  ghost  writer  for  James  Roosevelt, 
I  worked  for  United  Productions  of  America.  I  worked  for  the  Cag- 
ney  Co.,  and  I  believe  I  did  publicity  in  an  independent  firm  for  a 
number  of  distinguished  stars,  including  Laurence  Olivier,  Vivien 
Leigh,  Jane  Russell,  the  woman  who  was  married  to  Clark  Gable  who 
died  whose  name  I  cannot  recall — Carole  Lombard — and  a  number 
of  personalities  of  that  order. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  are  you  presently  employed? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  am  not  employed. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  been  unemployed  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  Since  the  end  of  last  week. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  were  you  employed  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Daogett.  I  was  working  for  a  company  known  as  United  Pro- 
ductions of  America. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1489 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  did  you  live  in  1942,  Mr.  Daggett? 

Mr.  Daggett.  1942?     The  street  address? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  did  you  live  at  Rosemead,  Calif.,  in  August 
1942? 

Mr.  Daggett.  No ;  I  did  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  live  there  in  1932  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  No;  I  did  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  ever  lived  there  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  Not  that  I  can  recall  ever  having  lived  in  Rosemead, 
Calif. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  at  any  time  sign  a  petition  to  put  the  Com- 
munist Party  on  the  ballot  in  the  primary  election  in  1932  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  am  afraid  you  are  trying  to  link  me' with  a  sub- 
versive organization,  and  I  shall  have  to  decline  to  answer  that  ques- 
tion on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Wood.  Without  anticipating  what  he  is  seeking  to  do,  sir,  the 
question  as  asked  was  did  you  sign  such  a  petition.  What  is  your 
answer? 

Mr.  Daggett.  My  answer  is  that  I  shall  decline  to  answer  it, 
Congressman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Very  well. 

Mr.  Daggett.  On  the  grounds  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well 

Mr.  Walter.  Let's  get  it  on  the  grounds  that  the  Communist  Party 
is  a  subversive  organization? 

Mr.  Daggett.  On  the  ground  of  the  fifth  amendment,  sir.  I  think 
the  answer  I  made  is  quite  clear. 

Mr.  Walter.  It  wasn't  to  me.  I  understood  you  to  say  that  you  did 
decline  to  answer  because  Mr.  Tavenner  was  trying  to  link  your 
name  with  a  subversive  organization. 

Mr.  Daggett.  Correct. 

Mr.  Walter.  I  was  just  wondering  what  that  organization  was. 

Mr.  Daggett.  He  named  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Mr.  Harold  Ashe  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  shall  have  to  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the 
same  ground  previously  stated. 

Mr.  Wood.  Just  a  moment.  You  don't  have  to  decline  to  do  any- 
thing here,  sir,  unless  you  desire  to  do  it,  so  don't — please  don't  leave 
the  inference  that  you  are  under  any  compulsion  to  decline  to  answer. 
The  question  is,  Do  you  decline  to  answer  I 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  do  decline  to  answer ;  yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  present  during  the  testimony  of  Mr. 
Harold  Ashe. 

Mr.  Daggett.  Part  of  the  time ;  yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  hear  that  part  of  his  testimony  in  which  he 
referred  to  his  acquaintanceship  with  you? 

Mr.  Daggett.  May  I  consult  my  attorney  ?     [Consulting  counsel.] 

Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  hear  him  say  that  in  1939  he  procured  from 
you  a  copy  of  the  report — the  1938  report  of  the  Committee  on  Un- 
American  Activities. 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  of  the 
fifth  amendment. 


1490  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  mentioned  in  that  report  made  by  the 
Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  in  1938  ?  Is  that  the  ground 
why  you 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  don't  believe  I  was.  I  don't  recollect  having  been 
mentioned. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  what  was  there  about  that  report  which  might 
— the  giving  to  Mr.  Ashe  might  constitute  some  criminal  offense  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question,  Mr.  Counsel,  on 
the  same  ground. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  hear  that  part  of  Mr.  Ashe's  testimony  in . 
which  he  stated  that  you  were  a  member  of  Z-100,  the  secret  pro- 
fessional club 

Mr.  Daggett.  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  No,  I  didn't  hear  that.  I  was  out  in  the  hall  during 
part  of  his  testimony.    I  didn't  hear  that  part. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  did  not  hear  that  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  I  am  stating  to  you  that  that  was  his  testi- 
mony.   Were  you  a  member  of  Z-100  or  Z-150  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  I 
have  previously  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  what  was  that  ground  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  On  the  ground  of  the  fifth  amendment,  that  you  are 
attempting  to  link  me  with  a  subversive  organization,  and  that  I  may 
incriminate  myself  by  answering  the  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  other  words,  by  testifying  or  admitting  that 
you  were  a  member  of  that  organization  you  might  subject  yourself 
to  criminal  prosecution? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  shall  have  to  decline  to  answer  on  the  same  ground,. 
Mr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  hear  Mrs.  Ashe  testify  ? 
'     Mr.  Daggett.  Part  of  her  testimony.    Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  hear  that  part  of  her  testimony  in  which 
she  stated  that  she  sat  in  many  Communist  Party  meetings  with 
you? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  heard  her  mention  my  name,  but  I  didn't  hear 
all  of  that  testimony  that  you  are  quoting  because  I  was  in  the  hall 
smoking  a  cigarette  while  she  was  on,  and  I  could  hear  her  mention 
my  name. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  known  Mrs.  Ashe  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  shall  have  to  decline  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Wood.  Please  don't  state  you  have  to  decline  to  do  anything. 
The  question  is,  Do  you  decline  or  don't  you? 

Mr.  Daggett.  All  right,  I  will  try  to  remember  that.     I  do  decline. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  ever  sit  in  a  Communist  Party  meeting 
with  Mrs.  Ashe  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds 
previously  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Daggett,  you  have  made  the  statement  at  least 
on  three  occasions  during  my  examination  of  you  that  I  was  endeavor- 
ing to  link  you  with  a  subversive  organization.  Now,  I  want  to 
make  it  very  plain  that  I  am  giving  you  every  opportunity  for  you,, 
yourself,  to  disassociate  yourself  with  any  such  organization,  if  you 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1491 

are  a  member,  or  to  disavow  it  if  you  are  a  member.  I  am  giving 
you  the  opportunity  to  unlink  yourself.  Do  you  care  to  take  advan- 
tage of  that  opportunity  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  Are  you  asking  me  a  question  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Most  assuredly ;  yes. 

Mr.  Daggett.  Can  you  phrase  it  again  so  that  I  can  get  what  it 
is,  clearly  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  desire  to  unlink  yourself  from  the  subver- 
sive organization  which  you  say  I  am  trying  to  link  you  with  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  Well,  I  shall  decline  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well,  sir.     I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter? 

Mr.  Walter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle  ? 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Daggett,  do  you  consider  the  Communist  Party 
to  be  a  subversive  organization  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  shall  have  to  decline  to  answer  that  question,  Mr. 
Jackson. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Are  you  at  present  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  am  not  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  are  not  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  am  not. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  are  not  a  member  at  present  ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  am  not  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  yes- 
terday ? 

Mr.  Daggett.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question,  Congressman  Jack- 
son. 

Mr.  Jackson.  No  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter? 

Mr.  Potter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  questions  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  why  this  witness  shouldn't  be  excused  from 
further  attendance  to  this  committee  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  So  ordered. 

Who  will  you  have  next  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Percy  Solotoy. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  hold  up  your  right  hand  and  be  sworn,  please. 

You  do  solemnly  swear  the  testimony  you  give  to  this  subcommittee 
will  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help 
you  God  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  represented  here  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  am,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  counsel  please  identify  himself  for  the  record. 

Mr.  Horowitz.  Fred  Horowitz,  756  South  Broadway,  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Wood.  You  have  the  right  to  confer  with  your  client  at  any  time 
during  the  course  of  this  interrogation  that  you  desire.     [Addressing 

81595— 51— pt.  4 6 


1492  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION- PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

witness :]  You  have  the  right  to  confer  with  your  counsel,  likewise. 
Mr.  Horowitz.  Thank  you. 

TESTIMONY  OF  PERCY  S0L0T0Y,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HIS  COUNSEL, 

FRED  HOROWITZ 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  name,  please,  sir  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Percy  Solotoy. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Solotoy  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  was  born  in  Winnipeg,  Canada,  August  30,  1910. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  a  naturalized  American  citizen  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Yes,  I  am. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  were  you  naturalized? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  In  1933.     I  don't  remember  the  month. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  at  the 
time  you  were  naturalized  an  American  citizen  ? 

Mr.  Solotot.  No. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  become  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party 
at  a  later  time  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  shall  decline  to  answer  that  question  upon  the 
grounds  stated  in  the  fifth  amendment  for  fear  of  self-incrimination. 

Mr.  Wood.  Can  you  hear  the  witness,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  faintly. 

Mr.  Wood.  We  can  barely  hear  you  up  here. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  am  sorry,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  wonder  if  you  could  elevate  your  voice  a  little  louder. 
I  understand  you  to  say  you  declined  to  answer  that  question  last  asked 
you  on  the  ground  of  the  fifth  amendment  \ 

Mr.  Solotoy.  And  for  fear  of  self-incrimination. 

Mr.  Wood.  And  for  fear  of  self-incrimination. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  at  this 
time  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  shall  decline  to  answer  that  question  for  the  reasons 
before  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  come  to  the  United  States,  Mr. 
Solotov  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  In  1924. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  At  the  age  of  about  14  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  would  have  to  figure  that  out.  About  the  age  of 
14. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  the  major  part  of  your  education  was  received 
in  the  United  States? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  In  California. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  that  is  in  the  United  States. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  am  a-  California  booster,  as  you  say. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  your  education  consisted  of,  Mr.  Solotoy? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  went  through  high  school  in  Los  Angeles  at  the 
Roosevelt  High  School.  1  secured  an  A.  B.  degree  at  the  University 
of  California  at  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  attend  the  University  of  California? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  At  Los  Angeles? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Between  the  years  of  19:20—1920  and  1930.  Then 
I  attended  law  school  at  the  Boalt  Hall  of  Law. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1493 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Boalt  Hall  of  Law  in  Berkeley,  Calif.     I  graduated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  year  of  your  graduation  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  1933. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  engage  in  the  practice  of  law  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Not  until  the  following  year,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.     How  long  did  you  practice  law  and  where  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  practiced  law  in  the  city  of  Los  Angeles  until  1938. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  Mr.  Spencer  Austrian, 
an  attorney  at  law  in  Los  Angeles  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  shall  decline  to  answer  that  question  upon  the 
grounds  previously  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  other  business  or  occuption  have  you  been 
engaged  in  since  1939,  since  the  time  you  ceased  the  practice  of  law  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Furniture  manufacturing  business. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  position  now  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  am  president  of  a  furniture  manufacturing  com- 
pany. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  the  name  of  the  company  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Brown- Saltman. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  can't  hear  you. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I'm  sorry,  sir.  I  thought  I  was  loud  enough.  Am 
I  making  it  difficult  for  you,  too,  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes ;  it  is  very  difficult  to  understand  you. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  am  sorry. 

Mr.  Wood.  Would  you  repeat  the  name  of  the  company  again. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Brown-Saltman  Co. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  A  previous  functionary  in  the  Communist  Party, 
Mr.  Harold  Ashe,  and  also  his  former  wife,  Mrs.  Mildred  Ashe,  have 
testified  here  today.     Were  you  present  during  their  testimony? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  was  only  present  here  at  the  very  tail  end  of 
Mr.  Ashe's  testimony.     I  was  here  during  Mrs.  Ashe's  testimony. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  did  you  hear  the  testimony  of  Mrs.  Ashe  in 
which  she  stated  that  she  knew  you  as  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  heard  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  AVas  her  statement  truthful  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  shall  decline  to  answer  that,  counsel,  upon  the 
grounds  previously  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  what  are  the  grounds  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  That  any  answer  I  may  give  in  that  regard  creates  in 
me  a  fear  of  self-incrimination  and,  further,  that  I  believe  I  am 
warranted  to  the  protection  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Mr.  Harold  Ashe? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  shall  decline  to  answer  that  upon  the  same  grounds, 
Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  taken  part  in  any  activity  designed  to 
defeat  the  passage  by  Congress  of  legislation  on  the  subject  of  sub- 
versive action  ? 

Mr.  Horowitz.  May  we  have  a  moment  here  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  shall  decline  to  answer  that,  Counsel,  upon  the 
grounds  previously  stated. 


1494  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  at  any  time  been  a  member  of  the  board 
of  directors  of  the  Southern  California  Progressive  Citizens  of 
America. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Would  you  repeat  the  name  of  that  organization,  sir  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Southern  California  Progressive  Citizens  of 
America. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Yes;  1  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  were  you  a  member  of  that  organization  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  My  best  recollection  is  that  it  was  a  matter  of  several 
months.    I  don't  recall  how  many. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  to  the  committee  what  you  know,  if 
anything,  regarding  the  participation  in  that  organization  of  members 
of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  am  not  able  to  help  the  committee  in  that  regard  at 
all,  sir.  During  the  time  that  I  was  on  the  board  of  directors  of  that 
organization,  I  was  not  aware  of  any  Communist  Party  members  in 
it. 

Mr.  Wood.  Would  you  inquire  what  year  that  was  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  date,  the  period  of  time  when  you 
were  on  that  organization? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  My  best  recollection  is  that  it  was  toward  the  end 
of  1947  and  perhaps  early  1948—1947  and  1948. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  John  Howard  Lawson  a  member  of  the  board 
of  directors  with  you  in  that  organization  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  frankly  don't  know,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  were  acquainted  with  Mr.  John  Howard 
Lawson,  weren't  you? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  No  ;  I  was  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  hand  you  a  photostatic  copy,  page  3  of  the  Daily 
People's  World  of  January  26,  1948,  and  I  will  ask  you  to  look  at  the 
last  paragraph  of  an  article  appearing  there  under  the  caption  "It 
is  our  No.  1  job"  where  you  will  find  listed  the  names  of  the  board 
members,  and  I  will  ask  you  to  examine  it  and  state  whether  or  not 
it  refreshes  your  recollection  that  Mr.  John  Howard  Lawson  was  a 
member  of  the  board  of  directors  with  you. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  It  does  not  refresh  my  memory. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  does  not.  Were  you  acquainted  with  Mr.  Sam* 
Moore  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  The  name  does  not  mean  anything  to  me,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  look  again  at  the  list  of  members  of  the 
board  of  directors  and  state  whether  or  not  you  find  listed  there  the 
name  of  Sam  Moore. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  see  it  listed,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Does  that  note  refresh  your  recollection  that  h& 
served  on  the  board  with  you  ? 

Mr.  Solotot.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  did  you  actually  participate  in  the  board 
meetings  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  participated  in  one  full  board  meeting  that  I 
remember. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  you  do  not  remember  the  presence  of  Mr.  Law- 
son  or  Mr.  Moore  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  No,  sir. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1495 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  think  that  is  all.  Were  you  acquainted  with  Mr. 
Herbert  Klein  ? 

Mr.  Horowitz.  I'm  sorry;  I  didn't  hear  you. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Herbert  Klein,  K-1-e-i-n,  sometimes  referred  to 

as  Herb. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  must  decline  to  answer  that,  sir,  on  the  grounds 

previously  stated. 

Mr.  Wood.  You  are  under  no  compulsion — ■ — 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Oh,  I'm  sorry,  sir.     I  do  decline. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter? 

Mr.  Walter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle? 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  think  you  said  that  during  the  time  you  were  on  the 
hoard  of  directors  of  the  Southern  California  Progressive  Citizens  of 
America  that  you  were  not  aware  of  any  Communists  on  that  board. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Do  you  know  any  members  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  must  decline  to  answer — I'm  sorry.  I  do  decline  to 
answer  that,  Congressman,  on  the  grounds  previously  stated. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter? 

Mr.  Potter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  believe  you  say  you  served  on  the  board  of  directors 
of  the  Southern  California  Progressive  Citizens  of  America  during  the 
years  or  a  portion  of  the  years  1947  and  1948. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  For  several  months,  I  said,  sir;  toward  the  end  of 
the  year  1947  and  the  early  part  of  1948. 

Mr.  Wood.  And  during  that  period  you  had  no  knowledge  of  the 
presence  on  that  board  of  any  Communists  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Wood.  Well,  I  will  ask  you  whether  or  not  you  were  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party  in  1947. 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  decline  to  answer  that. 

Mr.  Wood.  Or  in  1948? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  decline  to  answer  that,  also. 

Mr.  Wood.  You  have  said  that  you  have  no  knowledge  of  the 
presence  on  that  board  of  any  Communist  during  that  period  of  time 
and  that  you  were  a  member  of  it  yourself.  Now,  why  is  it  that 
you  decline  to  tell  us  whether  you  were  a  member  or  not,  because 
if  you  were  you  must  have  known  one  member  of  the  board  that  was 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy/  I  am  sorry,  sir ;  I  decline  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Wood.  You  decline  to  answer  that  one,  too  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Yes. 

Mr.  Wood.  For  the  ground  that  you  previously  have  given  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  That's  correct,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  So  you  are  leaving  this  committee  now  that,  notwith- 
standing the  fact  that  you  have  testified  that  there  was  not  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party  on  that  board  during  that  time,  to  your 
knowledge,  but  that  you  decline  to  answer  whether  you  were  or  not 
at  that  time  yourself;  is  that  the  way  you  want  to  leave  it? 


1496  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  will  revise  my  answer  to  that,  Congressman.  I 
was  not  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  during  the  period  I  was 
on  the  board  of  directors  of  the  Progressive  Citizens  of  America. 

Mr.  Wood.  Well,  were  you  conscious  of  that  fact  when  you  declined 
to  answer  that  question  a  moment  ago,  or  did  you  answer  it  in- 
advertently ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  answfered  inadvertently. 

Mr.  Wood.  Well,  have  you  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party 
since  1948? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  No. 

Mr.  Wood.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  in  1946? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  shall  decline  to  answer  that  question  upon  the 
grounds  of  self-incrimination. 

Mr.  Wood.  In  1945  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  shall  decline  upon  the  same  grounds,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  further  questions,  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Jackson.  One  further  question.  Mr.  Solotoy,  have  you  trav- 
eled abroad  within  the  past  10  years  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  have  not  been  out  of  the  country  ? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  Not  that  I  can  remember. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Have  you  been  out  of  the  country  since  your  original 
entry  in,  I  believe,  1924? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  I  believe  that  I  may  have  made  a  trip  to  Ensenada  or 
Tijuana. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  have  never  made  application  for  a  passport? 

Mr.  Solotoy.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Jackson.  No  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  further  questions,  Mr.  Counsel? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  why  this  witness  shouldn't  be  excused  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  So  ordered. 

Do  you  desire  to  take  another  witness  this  afternoon?  It  is  ap- 
proaching 5 :  30. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes;  I  think  it  would  hardly  pay  to  start  with 
another  witness  at  this  time. 

Mr.  Wood.  9 :  30  in  the  morning,  gentlemen  ?  The  committee  will 
stand  in  recess  until  9 :  30  tomorrow  morning. 

(Whereupon,  at  the  hour  of  5 :  20  p.  m.,  an  adjournment  was  taken 
until  9 :  30  a.  m.  of  the  following  day.) 


COMMUNIST  INFILTRATION  OF  HOLLYWOOD  MOTION- 
PICTURE  INDUSTRY— PART  4 


TUESDAY,   SEPTEMBER   18,    1951 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 
Subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Los  Angeles,  Calif. 

The  subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  met 
pursuant  to  adjournment  at  9  :  55  a.  m.  in  room  518,  Federal  Building, 
Los  Angeles,  Calif.,  Hon.  John  S.  Wood  (chairman)  presiding. 

Committee  members  present :  Representatives  John  S.  Wood  (chair- 
man), Francis  E.  Walter,  Clyde  Doyle,  Donald  L.  Jackson,  and 
Charles  E.  Potter. 

Staff  members  present :  Frank  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  counsel ;  Thomas  W. 
Beale,  Sr.,  assistant  counsel;  Louis  J.  Russell,  senior  investigator; 
William  A.  Wheeler,  investigator ;  John  W.  Carrington,  clerk. 

Mr.  Wood.  The  meeting  will  be  in  order. 

I  would  like  to  make  a  little  announcement.  The  committee  very 
much  appreciates  the  cooperation  of  the  audience  on  yesterday  and 
sincerely  hopes  that  we  may  continue  to  have  the  cooperation  in  order 
that  we  may  proceed  as  rapidly  as  possible  with  these  hearings. 

Are  you  ready  to  proceed,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  please  let  the  record  disclose  that  the  subcom- 
mittee is  here  present  in  its  entirety,  consisting  of  Messrs.  Walter, 
Doyle,  Jackson,  Potter,  and  Mr.  Wood. 

Who  do  you  have? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Henry  Blankfort. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  Mr.  Blankfort? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  am  Mr.  Blankfort. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  hold  up  your  hand  and  be  sworn.  Do  you  sol- 
emnly swear  that  the  evidence  you  give  this  subcommittee  shall  be 
the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  represented  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  counsel  identify  himself  for  the  record,  please. 

Mr.  Neusom.  Thomas  Neusom,  1111  East  Vernor,  Los  Angeles, 
Calif. 

TESTIMONY    OE    HENRY    BLANKFORT,    ACCOMPANIED    BY    HIS 

COUNSEL,  THOMAS  NEUSOM 

Mr.  Wood.  Have  a  seat,  please. 

I  will  advise  you  that  you  are  at  liberty  to  confer  with  your  counsel 
anytime  you  desire  during  the  progress  of  your  interrogation  here 

1497 


1498  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

and  that  your  counsel  has  the  privilege  of  conferring  with  his  client 
any  time  he  desires  and  give  him  such  advice  concerning  his  testimony 
as  he  may  see  fit  to  do. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Thank  you  very  much,  Judge  Wood. 

Mr.  Neusom.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  have  here  two  digests  of  Senator  Kef auver,  and 
I  would  like  to  make  a  statement  at  this  time  here. 

Mr.  Wood.  You  are  here  for  the  purpose  of  answering  questions.  If 
you  have  a  statement  that  you  would  like  to  file  with  the  committee,  we 
will  be  glad  to  accept  it. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  have  this  statement,  which  includes  two  resolu- 
tions of  Senator  Kef  auver,  which  is  drawn  up 

Mr.  Wood.  Submit  it,  sir. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  would  like  to  have  it  read  in  the  record,  if  I  might. 

Mr.  Wood.  Would  you  just  be  patient.  File  your  statement  with  the 
clerk. 

Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  Mr.  Henry  Blankfort,  I  believe? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  am  Mr.  Henry  Blankfort,  and  I  have  also  used 
the  pen  names  of  Henry  Bancroft  and  Jan  Jeffries. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Blankfort  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  was  born  in  New  York  City  on  Christmas  Dav, 
1906.     That  is  December  25. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  for  the  committee,  please,  in  a  gen- 
eral way,  your  educational  preparation  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  My  formal  education  was  rather  brief.  It  was  sim- 
ply elementary  and  high  school  in  the  New  York  City  schools.  My 
inf ormal  education,  however,  began  when  I  realized  the  responsibility 
of  every  American  to  think  clearly  and  independently  and  to  seek  the 
truth ;  and  no  intimidation  will  steer  me  from  this  course. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  for  the  committee,  please,  what  your 
employment  record  has  been. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Since  I  have  been  in  Hollywood,  sir  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Since  the  completion  of  your  educational  work. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Well,  when  I  left  high  school  I  was  employed  for 
a  while  by  the  J.  Walter  Thompson  Co.,  an  advertising  agency  in 
New  York  City.  I  started  as  an  office  boy  there  and  left  as  a  junior 
executive.  After  that  I  went  into  business  for  myself  and  did  sales 
and  promotional  work.  I  operated  a  chain  store  and  then  went  in 
the  manufacture  of  steel  products.  Then  subsequently  I  came  to 
Hollywood. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Since  being  in  Hollywood  how  have  you  been  em- 
ployed ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  have  been  employed  as  a  screen  writer  and,  for 
a  small  period,  as  an  associate  producer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  were  you  an  associate  producer? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  have  to  think  of  some  of  these  dates.  I  never 
realized  that  I  would  have  to  keep  a  dossier  on  myself  so  I  will 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  am  not  requesting  that  you  be  that  exact  in  your 
statement,  but  just  give  us  a  general 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  think  that  I  became  an  associate  producer  at 
Universal  Films  about  19 — shortly  before  the  end  of  the  war. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  }<ou  continue  to  work  with  a  pro- 
ducer ? 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1499 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  was  under  contract  there  for  1  year.  I  am  curi- 
ous, Mr.  Tavenner,  if  these  questions  lead  up  to  the  control  of  content 
of  film,  which  one  of  your  members,  a  member  of  this  committee,  has 
already  expressed  on  the  air  that  they  have  done  something  in  this 
regard,  and  will  the  committee  like  me  to  put  into  the  record 

Mr.  Wood.  It  would  be  most  helpful  if  you  will  confine  your  answers 
to  the  questions. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Perhaps  to  the  committee  but  not  to  the  American 
people. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee,  I  am  certain,  would  be  very  glad  to 
have  the  benefit  of  any  knowledge  you  may  have  as  to  the  control  of 
content  of  film. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Well,  if  this  is  the  question,  I  would  like  to  answer 
it,  sir.  Mr.  Velde,  on  the  air,  I  believe  in  one  of  these  Meet  the  Press 
programs,  when  asked  by  the  reporters  whether  or  not  he  felt  that  this 
committee  had  influenced  content  in  film,  remembering  it  as  clearly  as  I 
can,  here  is  what  Mr.  Velde  said 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Just  a  moment.    I  am  not  asking  you 

Mr.  Blankfort.  You  have  asked  me,  sir,  and  I  would  like  to  answer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Just  a  moment.  I  have  asked  you  what  you  know, 
if  anything,  regarding  efforts  made  to  control  the  content  of  films  and 
I  will  ask  you  to  confine  yourself  to  your  answer. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Yes,  I  will  do  that.  Knowledge  comes  to  me 
through  many  sources,  of  course,  and  I  would  like  to  think  that  the 
words  of  a  member  of  this  committee  have  some  worth  in  giving  me 
knowledge.  Mr.  Velde  on  the  air  said  that  even  though  he  did  not 
think,  perhaps,  that  this  committee  did  influence  films,  but  he  ventures 
to  say  that  there  will  be  less  films  now  on  racial  problems,  and  I  don't 
think  he  meant  Santa  Anita  or  Hollywood  Park. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  will  you  answer  my  question. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  What  is  your  question,  sir? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  didn't  think  that  you  were  addressing  yourself  to 
the  question. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Oh,  your  question  is,  What  do  I  know  about  the 
control  of  content  of  film? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  question  is,  What  information  do  you  have 
regarding  any  effort  made  in  the  industry  to  control  the  content  of 
films  in  connection  with  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  refuse  to  answer  any  question  in  relation  to  the 
Communist  Party  on  the  basis  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  have  such  information  ? 

(Witness  confers  with  counsel.) 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  decline  to  answer  that  part  of  the  question  which 
refers  to  the  Communist  Party  on  the  basis  of  the  fifth  amendment  to 
the  Constitution  of  the  United  States. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  were  the  principal  films  which  you  produced 
while  a  producer  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  say  this  shamefacedly,  because  I  was  an  associate 
producer  doing  B  pictures,  and  I  have  developed  a  kind  of  psychologi- 
cal block,  hoping  to  forget  the  titles,  but  I  was  associate  producer  on  a 
film  called  Easy  to  Look  At,  and  another  thing  called  the  Crimson 
Canary  and,  believe  me,  the  title  "Crimson"  had  nothing  political  in  it. 
As  a  matter  of  fact,  the  original  title  was  to  be  Hear  That  Trumpet 
Talk,  but  it  seems  that  the  New  York  office  of  Universal  had  sold  a 


1500  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

picture  called  Crimson  Canary  and  so,  therefore,  they  put  the  title 
of  Crimson  Canary  on  the  picture. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Blankfort,  I  would  like  to  ask  you  a  few  ques- 
tions regarding  your  possible  association  with  certain  organizations 
which  have,  from  time  to  time,  been  cited  by  the  Attorney  General  of 
the  United  States,  or  this  committee,  as  being  of  a  subversive  charac- 
ter or  as  being  Communist. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  This  is  your  privilege,  and  while  you  are  looking 
this  up,  Mr.  Tavenner,  as  long  as  you  brought  up  the  lists  cited  by  the 
Attorney  General,  I  would  like  to  point  out  that  it  is  public  knowledge 
that  none  of  these  organizations  were  entitled  to  a  hearing.  It  is 
public  knowledge  that  these  were  cited  by  the  opinion  of  the  Attorney 
General  himself,  and  also,  I  believe,  by  the  California  Committee  on 
Un-American  Activities  whose  late  chairman,  Mr.  Tenney,  has  now 
decided  to  try  to  legalize  ghettos  and  segregation  with  another  amend- 
ment to  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  show  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  a  ballot  for  election 
of  officers  for  the  Hollywood  Democratic  Committee,  dated  July  26, 
1944.  The  name  of  Henry  Blankfort  appears  as  a  candidate  on  this 
ballot  for  the  position  of  executive  board  member.  Were  you  a  candi- 
date for  the  executive  board  member  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  must  refuse — I  will  refuse  to  answer  this  ques- 
tion on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment,  because  to  answer  this,  in 
a  sense,  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  the  Hollywood  Democratic  Committee  an  out- 
growth of  the  Hollywood  Anti-Nazi  League,  to  your  knowledge? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  must  decline  to  answer  this  question,  sir,  on  the 
same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  the  Hollywood  Democratic  Committee  become 
the  Hollywood  Independent  Citizens  Committee  of  the  Arts,  Sciences, 
and  Professions  in  July  of  1943  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  must  decline  to  answer  this  question 

Mr.  Tavenner.  1945. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Sir,  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  show  you  a  photostatic  copy  on  the  letterhead  of 
the  Hollywood  Independent  Citizens  Committee  of  the  Arts,  Sciences, 
and  Professions,  dated  December  10,  1946,  and  call  your  attention  to 
the  bottom  of  the  letter  where  the  members  of  the  executive  council  are 
listed.  I  believe  the  name  Henry  Blankfort  appears  there.  Were  you 
a  member  of  the  executive  council 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  must  decline  to  answer  this. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Just  a  moment.  Just  a  moment.  Were  you  a  mem- 
ber of  the  executive  council  of  the  Hollywood  Independent  Citizens 
Committee  on  the  Arts,  Sciences,  and  Professions  as  indicated  by  that 
letterhead  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  do  decline  to  answer  this  question  on  the  basis 
of  the  fifth  amendment,  and  I  would  like  to  added  at  this  time  that  I 
believe  this  committee's  effort  is  to  stifle  all  political  opposition. 

Air.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Blankfort,  the  committee  has  information  that 
on  February  5,  1945,  you  met  in  the  home  of  Eichard  Collins  with 
certain  other  individuals  to  discuss  the  financial  situation  of  the 
Communist  Party  in  the  motion-picture  industry.  Do  you  recall 
having  attended  such  a  meeting? 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1501 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question,  sir,  on  the  ground 
of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  attend  a  meeting  on  July  7,  1945,  at  the 
home  of  Albert  Maltz  to  discuss  the  Duclos  letter,  which  most  people 
are  familiar  with  at  this  time  as  being  the  document  which  brought 
about  the  overthrow  of  Earl  Browder  as  head  of  the  Communist  Party 
in  the  United  States  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question,  sir,  on  the  same 
grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  attend  other  meetings  at  other  places  where 
the  Duclos  letter  was  discussed  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  decline  to  answer  that  other  question,  sir,  on  the 
same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  has  information  that  at  one  time 
you  were  the  educational  director  of  branch  H  of  the  northwest  section 
of  the  Los  Angeles  County  Communist  Party  in,  I  believe,  about  the 
year  1943.    Is  that  information  correct? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question,  sir,  on  the  same 
grounds.  That  is  why  I  had  hoped  that  this  committee  would  have 
given  me  permission  to  read  Senator  Kefauver's  resolutions  in  rela- 
tion to  the  activities  of  such  legislative  committees. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  has  information  that  you  were  trans- 
ferred as  a  member  of  Halden  Club  of  the  Los  Angeles  County  Com- 
munist Party,  or  rather  that  you  were  transferred  to  that  club  from 
what  was  known  as  the  Hollywood  Cultural  Club  in  January  of  1947. 
Were  you  ever  a  member  of  either  of  those  clubs  of  the  Communist 
Party  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  will  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the 
grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  is  in  possession  of  information  that 
you  held  1946  Communist  Party  book  No.  35320.  Did  you  hold  that 
book,  or  any  book  designating  or  indicating  membership  in  the  Com- 
munist Party  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question,  sir,  on  the 
grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Dmytryk  appeared  as  a  witness  before  this 
committee  on  April  25,  1951,  and  during  the  course  of  his  testimony 
he  made  this  statement,  which  I  quote : 1 

Then  there  was  another  group  which  met  for  the  purpose,  I  think,  of  some 
sort  of  affair  that  had  to  do  with  the  fight  against  anti-Negro  prejudice.  This 
was  composed  of  small  committees,  as  it  were,  of  several  cells,  several  groups, 
rather  neighborhood  groups  throughout  the  town.  Most  of  them  I  didn't  know. 
I  knew  just  a  few  from  Hollywood.  The  meeting  was  held  at  Ben  Margolis' 
house  and  Mr.  Margolis  was  present,  and  Mr.  Henry  Blankfort  was  present,  and 
a  man  named  George  Pepper. 

Do  vou  recall  that  meeting  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  must  decline  to  answer  that  question,  sir,  on  the 
basis  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Do  you  have  any  questions,  Mr.  Walter  ? 

Mr.  Walter.  Yes. 

Mr.  Blankfort,  you  stated  that  this  committee  has  as  its  purpose 
the  stifling  of  all  political  opposition.    Did  you  mean  by  that  that  this 


1  See  :  Communist  Infiltration  of  Hollywood  Motion-Picture  Industry — Part  2,  p.  424. 


1502  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

committee  has  as  its  purpose  the  elimination  of  the  Communist  Party 
as  opposition  to  our  form  of  government  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  believe  that  this  committee,  either  unwittingly 
or  not,  is  falling  into  the  trap  of  committees  of  this  sort  in  the  past, 
which  feeling  a  certain  amount  of  power  attempts  to  destroy  all 
political  opposition  by  creating  such  an  atmosphere  of  fear  in  the 
country.  Today  we  find  that  Americans  fear  to  sign  the  Declaration 
of  Independence  lest  they  be  called  Communist. 

Here  is  an  answer  of  Al  Capp,  one  of  the  leading  comic  illustrators 
of  our  day,  and  a  humorist,  mind  you,  who  when  asked  in  Pageant 
magazine — 

Do  you  think  something  is  happening  to  our  talent  for  self-criticism  and  self- 
ridicule? 

And  here  is  what  Al  Capp  says, 

Happening?  Hell  it's  already  happened.  It  is  not  safe  to  laugh  at  ourselves 
any  more.  I  think  we  are  losing  one  of  our  most  precious  freedoms,  the  freedom 
to  laugh  at  ourselves. 

I  submit  this  for  the  record,  too,  and  I  accuse  this  committee  of 
creating  that  atmosphere. 

Here  is  an  article 

Mr.  Walter.  Never  mind  about  that. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  You  asked  me  a  question,  sir. 

Mr.  Walter.  I  will  appreciate  if  you  answer  my  questions.  Of 
course,  Al  Capp  isn't  an  authority  on  anything,  he  is  just  a  humorist, 
as  you  said. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Mr.  Al  Capp  is  a  humorist.  Yesterday  I  heard  a 
comment  that  this  committee  were  authorities  on  humor. 

Mr.  Walter.  We  happen  to  know,  Mr.  Blankfort,  a  great  deal  about 
you.  We  didn't  subpena  you  to  appear  before  this  committee  for  the 
purpose  of  embarrassing  you  or  try  you  for  anything. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Then  I  suggest  you  read  Senator  Kefauver'a 
resolutions. 

Mr.  Walter.  Yes.    And  we  know  Senator  Kefauver. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  And  he  knows  you. 

Mr.  Walter.  Very  well.  He  ought  to.  I  served  on  the  same  com- 
mittee with  him  for  a  great  many  years. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Perhaps  that  is  why  he  has  written  these  resolu- 
tions. 

Mr.  Walter.  What  I  would  like  to  know  is  this:  Don't  you  feel 
in  view  of  the  fact  that  we  now  know  what  communism  is,  that  as  a 
result  of  the  events  that  have  occurred  in  recent  months  we  are  aware 
of  the  dangers  of  this  international  conspiracy,  that  as  one  who  has 
enjoyed  the  blessings  of  our  form  of  Government  you  might  want 
to  aid  us  in  our  work,  because  we  know  that  you  were  a  Communist, 
we  know  that  you  had  a  Communist  card,  we  know  of  your  activities 
in  the  Communist  Party  and  we  feel  that  because  of  your  experience 
and  the  knowledge  gained  by  your  association  with  this  subversive 
movement  that  you  can  perhaps  aid  the  American  people  in  deter- 
mining whether  or  not  this  Communist  Party  ought  to  be  made  il- 
legal? You  might  indicate  to  us  courses  of  procedure  that  would 
enable  us  to  recommend  legislation.  Why  don't  you  tell  us  what  you 
know  of  the  operations  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1503 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  decline  to  enter  into  this  discussion  with  the 
eminent  Congressman,  sir.  This  is  a  question  of  entrapment  and  it 
is  an  attempt  to  tear  down  my  privileges  under  the  fifth  amendment. 
You  are  not  fair  in  asking  this  question. 

Mr.  Walter.  I  assure  you  it  is  not  the  purpose  of  anybody  to  entrap 
you. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Yes,  it  is,  sir.    This  is  my  privilege  to  think  this. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  would  suggest  that  the  witness  be  called  to  order. 

Mr.  Walter.  Let  him  go.    This  is  not  an  easy  thing. 

I  feel  that  the  witness  ought  to  be  given  a  certain  latitude. 

We  were  hopeful  when  you  were  selected  as  a  witness  to  testify 
that  because  of  your  vast  experience  you  would  be  willing  as  an 
American  citizen  to  aid  this  committee  instead  of  taking  shelter  in 
the  kind  of  a  document  that  doesn't  exist  anywhere  particularly  in  the 
iron  curtain  countries.  Why  don't  you  come  clean  and  tell  us  what 
you  know  about  it? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  decline  to  enter  in  this  discussion  with  the  emi- 
nent Congressman. 

Mr.  Walter.  That's  all. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  However,  I  do  hope  that  this  committee  takes  as 
much  interest  in  the  people  of  the  United  States  as  they  do  in  the  peo- 
ple of  the  Soviet  Union  and  that  has  a  chairman  that  votes  against 
the  poll  tax. 

Mr.  Wood.  You  declined  to  answer  the  questions,  sir? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  did,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Blankfort,  have  you  ever  served  in  the  Armed 
Forces  of  the  United  States? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  have  not,  sir. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Would  you  so  serve  if  required  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  believe  that  the  Constitution  and  the  Bill  of 
Rights  of  our  country  are  the  inherent  guards  against  depredations 
which  must  be  protected  at  all  costs  and  I  will  defend  them  against 
any  foreign  or  external  enemies. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Would  you  take  an  oath  of  loyalty 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Or  internal  enemies. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Would  you  take  an  oath  of  loyalty  to  the  United 
States  and  to  the  Constitution  as  a  condition  of  employment? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  believe,  sir,  that  when  a  man's  daily  life  and  daily 
actions  are  those  of  a  good  American,  not  by  words  alone  but  by  deeds, 
that  for  people  to  have  to  reemphasize  their  loyalty,  as  they  did  in 
Germany,  as  they  did  in  Italy,  and  as  this  committee  is  attempting 
to  have  not  loyalty  to  the  people  but  loyalty  to  the  committee,  and  if 
you  believe  that  this  is  not  so  I  would  like  to  read  you  a  statement  of 
Karl  Munclt,  a  former  member  of  this  committee. 

Mr.  Wood.  You  were  asked  a  simple  question. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  basis  of 
the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Wood.  Very  well. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  would  advise  you,  Mr.  Blankfort,  that  very  few 
good  Americans  whose  records  are  unimpeachable  have  been  called 


1504  COMMUNISM    IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

before  this  committee.     Have  you  traveled  abroad  within  the  past 
10  years? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  have  been  to  the  kind — do  you  mean  a  foreign 
country  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  The  foreign  country  that  belongs  to  California, 
Tijuana,  Ensenada,  and  Rosarita  Beach. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  have  not  traveled  abroad  to  Europe? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  No;  I  haven't. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Have  you  ever  subscribed  to  the  Chicago  Tribune  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  have  read  the  Chicago  Tribune.  As  a  matter  of 
fact,  I  read  about  30  or  40  newspapers  weekly. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Do  those  newspapers  include  the  Communist  Daily 
Worker? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  In  1857,  Mr.  Jackson,  a  man  was  convicted  for 
10  years 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  asked  you  a  question. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  And  I  am  going  to  answer  it. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  are  going  to  answer  the  question  "Yes"  or  "No." 
I  don't  want  a  speech.  I  have  heard  all  the  speeches  that  you  can 
possibly  deliver. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  They  have  not  had  much  effect  upon  you. 

Mr.  Jackson.  They  have  not  had  much  effect  upon  the  American 
people. 

Mr.  Wood.  Gentlemen,  will  you  please  just  confine  your  answers 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  will  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds 
of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Jackson.  If  you  saw  an  act  of  sabotage  being  committed  by  a 
Communist  and  you  had  knowledge  of  it,  would  you  report  it  to  the 
Federal  officials  of  this  country  or  the  FBI  or  the  United  States 
marshal  ? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  would  even  report  an  act  of  sabotage  if  I  saw 
you  commit  it. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  are  very  unlikely  to  see  me  commit  it. 

Would  you  so  report  an  act  of  sabotage  which  you  saw  being  com- 
mitted by  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  to  the  Federal  Bureau 
of  Investigation  or  the  United  States  Marshal? 

Mr.  Blankfort.  This  is  a  question  of  entrapment.  I  will  not 
answer  any  question  having  to  do  with  the  Communist  Party  on  the 
grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment.  If  the  Congressman  will  be  honest 
and  simplify  the  question  and  say  will  I  report  an  act  of  sabotage 
no  matter  who  will  do  it,  I  will  say  "Yes,  I  will  report  an  act  of 
sabotage  no  matter  who  will  do  it." 

Mr.  Jackson.  Would  you  report  an  act  of  sabotage  being  commit- 
ted by  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ?     That  is  the  question. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  This  is  again,  I  say,  a  question  of  entrapment  and 
I  would  refuse  to  answer  it  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment. 
I  said  I  will  report  an  act  of  sabotage  committed  by  anybody  if  I  do 
see  it. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  want  the  record  to  show  that  the  witness  refuses  to 
answer  "Yes"  or  "No"  as  to  the  question  asked. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  I  refuse  to'  answer  this  question  on  the  grounds 
of  the  fifth  amendment. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1505 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Blankfort,  it  is  my  personal  opinion,  that  you 
have  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  as  indicated  by  the 
evidence  in  possession  of  this  committee,  and  that  in  my  personal 
opinion  the  menace  that  you  claim  is  posed  by  this  committee  is  not 
one-tenth  as  vital,  not  one-tenth  as  dangerous  to  the  people  of  the 
United  States  of  America  and  to  the  freemen  everywhere  as  your 
continued  intransigence  in  your  support  of  Communist  pholisophy. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  When  the  American  people  fear  not  to  sign  the 
Declaration  of  Independence  then  I  will  say  that  this  committee  no 
longer  is  potent. 

Mr.  Jackson.  That's  all. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter,  do  you  have  any  questions? 

Mr.  Potter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Counsel,  any  further  questions? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  why  the  witness  shouldn't  be  excused  from 
further  attendance  that  you  know  of  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  So  ordered. 

Mr.  Blankfort.  Thank  you  very  much  for  permitting  me  to  express 
some  of  my  thoughts. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Howland  Chamberlin. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  raise  your  right  hand  and  be  sworn,  sir. 

You  do  solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  will  give  this  sub- 
committee shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the 
truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  represented  here  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  Yes,  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  counsel  please  identify  himself  for  the  record. 

Mr.  Margolis.  My  name  is  Ben  Margolis,  Los  Angeles,  Calif. 

TESTIMONY  OF  HOWLAND  CHAMBERLIN,  ACCOMPANIED  BY 
HIS  COUNSEL,  BEN  MARGOLIS 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  name,  please,  sir  ? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  Before  I  answer  the  questions  as  directed  to  me 
by  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  make  a  request  to  read  a  statement  which  I  think 
is  pertinent  to  my  appearance  before  this  committee. 

Mr.  Wood.  Your  counsel  is  already  familiar  with  the  rules  of  this 
committee.  If  you  have  a  statement  you  would  like  to  submit  to  the 
committee  in  advance  of  your  testimony  we  will  be  glad  to  receive  it, 
sir.    But  reading  of  statements  is  not  permitted. 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  I  understand  the  answer  to  this  question,  Mr. 
Chairman,  but  I  would  like  to  point  out  that  in  sitting  in  the  sessions 
yesterday  there  were  statements  read  by  witnesses  where  there  was 
no  objection  made  and  I  would  like  to  have  equal  treatment. 

Mr.  Wood.  There  are  no  statements  in  advance  of  testimony  read 
by  any  witness.  If  you  desire  to  submit  a  statement  we  would  be  glad 
to  accept  it  and  have  it  in  the  record.     Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  what  is  your  name,  please,  sir  ? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  I  am  proud  of  my  American  heritage  and  my 
Mayflower  ancestry.     My  name  is  Howland  Chamberlin. 


1506  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Wood.  It  would  expedite  the  work  of  the  committee  consider- 
ably if  you  would  refrain  from  making  unnecessary  remarks  and  an- 
swer the  questions  directly  that  are  asked  you,  and  the  committee  will 
be  very  appreciative  if  you  will  do  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Chamberlin  ? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  I  was  born  on  August  2, 1911,  in  New  York  City. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  been  your  educational  training? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  My  educational  training  has  been  in  the  public 
and  elementary  and  high  schools  both  in  New  York  City  and  Cali- 
fornia. After  completion  of  high  school  I  entered  a  2-year  course  in 
a  school  of  the  theater. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  present  occupation  ? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  My  present  occupation  is  an  actor,  and  I  find  it 
deeply  repugnant  and  profoundly  un-American  to  be  smeared,  black- 
listed, and  strangled  economically  by  my  presence  before  this  com- 
mittee. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Chamberlin,  your  presence  before  this  committee  is 
the  best  form  that  I  know  of  for  you  to  relieve  yourself  of  any  smear 
or  blacklist. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chamberlin,  the  committee  is  in  possession  of 
information  that  you  registered  as  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party 
for  the  1938  election,  and  I  would  like  to  give  you  an  opportunity  to 
explain  that  and  state  whether  or  not  it  is  true,  or  to  give  such  explana- 
tion as  you  desire  to  make  of  it. 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  It  is  my  opinion  that  this  committee  is  invading 
the  rights  of  a  person's  personal  political  views,  and,  therefore,  I  must 
point  out  in  my  answer  to  this  question  that  it  neither  confirms  nor 
denies  guilt  in  this  question,  and  I  invoke  my  right  and  my  privilege 
in  order  not  to  testify  against  myself  the  use  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  is  in  possession  of  information  that 
you  are  or  have  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party.  The  com- 
mittee is  investigating  the  extent  of  infiltration  of  communism  into  the 
moving-picture  industry  and  in  order  to  conduct  that  investigation 
it  is  necessary  to  know  these  facts.  Is  it  true  or  not  that  you  are  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party  or  have  been  ? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  believe  you  are  an  enlightened 
person  and  can  understand 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  please 

Mr.  Chamberlin  (continuing).  Answers  as  I  understand  the  ques- 
tion  

Mr.  Wood.  Just  a  moment.     Just  a  moment,  will  you,  please. 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  I  stand  on  the  grounds  prevously  stated. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  please  cease  just  a  moment  when  I  interrupt 
you  ?  This  is  an  orderly  procedure.  We  are  entitled  to  at  least  the 
courtesy  of  at  least  a  reply  to  the  questions»we  are  asking  here.  Will 
you  please  spare  us  your  opinion  as  to  the  standing,  intelligence, 
veracity,  moral  character  of  members  of  this  committee  and  its  staif , 
and  answer  the  questions  that  are  directed  to  you,  because  we  are  not 
concerned  at  all  about  your  opinions  of  us. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chamberlin,  you  have  stated  that  you  are  an 
actor  by  profession.  How  long  have  you  been  engaged  in  the  prac- 
tice of  your  profession  in  Hollywood  ? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  I  have  engaged — I  have  been  engaged  as  a  pro- 
fessional actor  in  Hollywood  and  its  environs  since  1936. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1507 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  that  period  of  time  what  are  some  of  the 
principal  plays  or  productions  which  you  have  taken  part  in  in  Holly- 
wood ? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  Since  there  are  over  a  hundred  plays  that  I  have 
participated  in  as  an  actor,  I  find  it  rather  difficult  to  single  out  any 
one  of  them.  I  presume  that  you  are  interested  in  the  motion-picture 
industry,  and  that  is  more  recent.  It  is  easier  to  recall  more  specifi- 
cally some  of  the  answers  which  I  assume  you  want. 

The  first  motion  picture  that  I  played  in  as  an  actor  was  The  Best 
Years  of  Our  Lives,  which  I  am  very  proud  to  have  been  associated 
with,  and  I  wish  to  make  the  comment  that  one  of  the  creative  artists 
involved  in  the  making  of  this  picture  said  not  too  long  ago  that — 

Due  to  the  atmosphere  of  the  country  at  the  present,  I  would  be  unable  to 
make  such  a  picture  today. 

I  charge  that  this  committee  is  responsible  in  helping  create  this  kind 
of  an  atmosphere  which  creates  censorship. 

Mr.  Wood.  Again,  I  call  your  attention  to  the  fact  that  the  com- 
mittee is  not  concerned  about  your  opinion  of  it,  so  please  spare  us 
that.     Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  There  have  been — in  order  to  continue  the  an- 
swer, there  have  been  some  20  motion  pictures  that  I  have  participated 
in.  The  present  one  that  is  showing  in  the  moving-picture  houses 
of  the  country  is  Pickup.  There  have  been  a  number  of  television 
pictures  that  I  have  performed  in,  as  well. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  was  the  director  in  the  two  plays  that  you  have 
mentioned,  the  motion  pictures  you  mentioned? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  The  director  of  The  Best  Years  of  Our  Lives 
was  Mr.  William  Wyler.    The  director  of  Pickup  was  Mr.  Hugo  Huss. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  were  the  producers  of  those  pictures? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  I  believe  in  the  former  one,  Mr.  Samuel  Goldwyn 
was  the  producer,  and  the  latter  picture,  Mr.  Hugo  Huss  also  pro- 
duced it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  employed  you  in  connection  with  those  two 
pictures? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  The  procedure  of  employment  in  the  motion- 
picture  industry  is  through  the  actor's  agent,  together  with  the  studio 
or  the  producing  company  which  is  responsible  for  that  particular 
picture. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  was  your  agent  in  those  two  instances? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  Bender  &  Ward  Agency. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  both  instances? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  Yes,  in  both  instances. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  any  inquiry  made  of  you  regarding  your  Com- 
munist Party  or  alleged  Communist  Party  affiliations  prior  to  your 
employment  in  those  pictures? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  It  seems  to  me  that  this  is  a  derivative  of  the 
original  question  of  this  sort,  and  since  I  have  stood  on  the  fifth 
amendment,  I  stand  so  on  this  question,  as  well. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter,  any  questions? 

Mr.  Walter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle? 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  questions. 

81595 — 51 — pt.  4 7 


1508  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  No  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter? 

Mr.  Potter.  From  your  testimony,  I  assume  that  it  is  your  conten- 
tion that  the  Communist  Party  is  a  political  party  rather  than  an 
international  conspiracy ;  do  you  care  to  comment  on  that  assumption 
I  have  from  your  testimony  ? 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  I  cannot  help  the  assumption  of  the  Congress- 
men of  this  committee  taken  regarding  to  any  statement  that  I  may 
make.  I  would  be  very  happy  to  express  my  personal  beliefs  if  there 
was  not  an  atmosphere  of  repression  and  a  feeling  of  persecution  and, 
therefore,  I  must  stand  on  the  grounds  similarly  stated. 

Mr.  Potter.  I  wish  to  inform  the  witness  that  any  distasteful  at- 
mosphere that  might  be  present  is  caused  by  the  witness. 

Mr.  Chamberlin.  That  is  merely  a  matter  of  opinion. 

Mr.  Potter.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  further  questions,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  wThy  the  witness  shouldn't  be  excused  from; 
further  attendance  on  this  committee  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  So  ordered.     Who  will  you  call  next? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Leo  Townsend. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Townsend,  will  you  hold  up  your  right  hand  and 
be  sworn,  sir.  Do  you  solemnly  swear  the  evidence  you  give  this  sub- 
committee shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the 
truth,  so  help  you  God? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Have  a  seat.  Are  you  represented  by  counsel,  Mr.  Town- 
send  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  have  been  represented  by  counsel,  who  has  advised 
me  of  my  legal  rights  here.  I  don't  feel  the  need  of  counsel  here 
today. 

Mr.  Wood.  If  you  determine  during  the  course  of  your  examination 
that  you  do,  you  are  at  liberty  to  call  him. 

TESTIMONY  OF  LEO  TOWNSEND 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  name,  please,  sir? 

Mr.  Townsend.  My  name  is  Leo  Townsend. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Townsend  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  was  born  in  Faribault,  Minn.,  on  May  11,  1908. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  profession  or  occupation? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  am  presently  occupied  as  a  screen  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  briefly  to  the  committee  what  your 
educational  training  has  been  for  your  profession? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  was  educated  in  a  parochial  and  public  schools 
of  Faribault.  I  attended  the  University  of  Minnesota  for  2  years. 
I  left  there  in  1930  because  the  depression  was  on.  I  could  no  longer 
support  myself  at  the  university.  I  found  a  job  in  New  York  with  a 
magazine  publishing  company ;  was  transferred  by  that  company  to 
Hollywood  in  1935;  remained  with  it  until  1938,  when  I  left  to  become 
a  radio  writer.  I  was  a  radio  writer  from  1938  until  1941,  when  I 
entered  the  motion-picture  field,  where  I  have  been  since. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1509 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Since  you  have  entered  upon  the  motion-picture 
field,  what  has  been  your  employment  and  with  whom? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  have  been  employed  by  various  studios.  Some 
of  the  films  on  which  I  have  screen  credit — let  me  see — at  Eagle  Lion 
Studio,  for  instance,  a  picture  called  Port  of  New  York;  at  Allied 
Artists,  a  picture  called  Southside  1-1000;  at  Universal,  a  picture 
called  It  Started  With  Eve;  at  Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer,  a  picture 
called  Seven  Sweethearts ;  also  at  Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer  a  film  called 
The  Black  Hand,  and  at  Warner  Bros,  a  film  called  Night  and  Day. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Townsend,  the  committee,  in  the  course  of  its 
investigation,  obtained  information  that  you  at  one  time  were  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party.    Is  that  true  or  not? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  that  is  true. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  join  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  joined  the  Communist  Party  at  the  beginning 
of  the  year  1943. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  remain  a  member? 

Mr.  Townsend.  At  that  time  I  remained  a  member  until  early  in 
February  1944  when  I  entered  Government  service. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  do  you  mean  by  Government  service  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  was  with  the  Office  of  Strategic  Services  during 
the  war  for  a  period  of  some  months. 

(At  this  time  Representative  John  S.  Wood  left  the  room.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  am  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  sever  your  connection  with  the  Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  In  1948. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  I  would  like  to  go  back  to  the  beginning  of 
your  experience  as  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  and  have  you 
to  tell  this  committee  all  that  you  can  regarding  your  participation, 
your  activities  and  knowledge  you  obtained  of  the  Communist  Party 
matters  while  a  member  to  aid  this  committee  in  this  investigation 
which  is  now  being  conducted. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Before  I  go  into  that  I  wonder  if  I  may  say,  in 
answer  to  a  previous  question  about  my  employment,  that  I  am 
presently  employed  at  Warner  Bros,  studio  as  a  screen  writer.  When 
I  received  my  subpena  last  week  I  went  to  the  heads  of  the  studio, 
told  them  I  had  a  subpena,  told  them  what  I  had  planned  to  do  here, 
that  I  was  going  to  testify  before  the  committee.  They  told  me  that 
my  testimony  would  in  no  way  affect  my  employment  at  their  studio. 

Mr.  Walter.  This  committee  has  hoped  that  would  be  the  position 
taken  by  various  studios. 

Mr.  Townsend.  This  was  the  position  taken  by  Warner  Bros.  I 
don't  know  about  the  position  of  the  other  studios  at  all,  but  I  am 
proud  to  say  that  Warner  Bros,  took  this  position. 

Mr..WALTER.  We  don't  feel  that  a  man  should  be  penalized  for  aid- 
ing the  committee  directed  by  the  Congress  of  the  United  States  to 
perform  certain  services.     Proceed,  Mr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That  decision  which  you  have  mentioned  was  based 
upon  a  bona  fide  statement  by  you  of  your  Communist  Party 
activities 

Mr.  Townsend.  That's  right. 


1510  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  the  fact  that  you  had  sometime  back  com- 
pletely and  finally  severed  your  connection  with  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  I  would  like  for  you  to  go  back  to  the  begin- 
ning of  your  experience  in  the  Communist  Party.  Will  you  tell  the 
committee  the  circumstances  under  which  you  became  a  member. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  should  probably  begin  by  saying  that  in  1943 — 
during  my  lifetime  there  have  been  two  world  wars  and  one  major 
depression.  I  wondered  if  there  were  ways  to  cure  this  situation. 
Also,  I  felt  that  in  our  own  country  there  was  social  inequity,  starva- 
tion amidst  plenty  in  certain  cases.  I  wanted  to  do  something  about 
this.  I  talked  with  other  writers.  I  found  other  people  sharing  my 
feelings. 

Eventually  I  discovered  that  some  of  these  people  were  members 
of  the  Communist  Party.  They  asked  me  to  subscribe  to  the  party 
newspaper,  the  People's  World.  I  looked  at  it,  found  its  editorial 
policies  at  that  time  more  or  less  parallel  to  the  editorial  policies  of, 
let's  say,  the  Los  Angeles  Times.  The  drive  was  to  win  the  war.  We 
were  at  that  time  allies  with  the  Soviet  Union  against  Germany.  I 
subscribed  to  the  People's  World.  I  was  then  asked  if  I  would  at- 
tend a  discussion  meeting  to  be  conducted  by  John  Howard  Lawson. 
I  agreed  to  attend  this  meeting,  and  this  meeting  turned  out  to  be  a 
Communist  recruiting  meeting.     My  wife  and  I  attended. 

Mr.  Lawson  spoke.  A  number  of  people  who  were  there  signed 
the  cards,  including  my  wife  and  I,  and  I  must  say  parenthetically 
that  my  wife  has  given  a  statement  to  this  committee  outlining  her 
activities  within  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  it  was  at  that  meeting,  conducted  by  John 
Howard  Lawson,  at  which  you  signed  your  application  to  become  a 
member  of  the  party  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  That  is  true ;  yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  do  you  recall  where  that  meeting  was  held? 

Mr.  Townsend.  It  was  held  on  Wetherly  Drive  in  Hollywood  at  the 
home  of  a  writer  named  Waldo  Salt. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  Mr.  Waldo  Salt  present? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  he  was  present  there.  I  remember  no  others 
there  outside  of  Mr.  Lawson  and  my  wife  and  myself. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  After  you  were  accepted  as  a  member  of  the  party, 
were  you  assigned  to  any  particular  unit  or  cell  of  the  party  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  was  told  at  that  meeting  that  I  would  be  phoned 
within  the  next  few  days  and  given  an  address  of  the  home  of  my  first 
party  meeting.  I  was  phoned  several  days  latter  by  a  woman  whom 
I  didn't  know  named  Marjorie  MacGresor.  She  gave  me  an  address, 
which  was  either  in  Beverly  Hills  or  Westwood.  This  was  to  be  the 
address  of  a  home  of  the  first  party  meeting.  < 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  later  learn  that  she  was  a  member  of  this 

particular  cell?  . 

Mr.  Townsend.  She  was  not  a  member  of  that  particular  cell.  1 
was  told  she  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party.  I  have  no  direct 
knowledge  that  she  was.  I  have  learned  later  that  she  was  the  wife 
of  a  screen  writer  named  Arnold  Manoff.  I  never  saw  her  in  a  party 
meeting. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1511 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  she  is  the  same  person 
that  is  also  know  as  Marjorie  Potts? 

Mr.  Townsend.  No,  sir ;  I  don't  know  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  this  cell  to  which  you  were  assigned  have  a 
name  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  As  far  as  I  recall,  it  did  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  At  that  time  what  was  the  general  character  of  the 
membership  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Mainly  screen  writers'  wives — mainly  screen  writ- 
ers, I  would  say. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  give  us  the  names  of  those  who  were  mem- 
bers of  the  group  to  which  you  were  first  assigned  ? 

Mr.  Towtnsend.  Before  I  name  these  names  I  would  like  to  preface 
this  with  a  very  brief  remark.  I  feel  that  the  purpose  of  this  com- 
mittee is  an  investigative  one  so  that  the  Congress  of  the  United  States 
may  intelligently  legislate  in  the  field  of  national  security.  As  a  loyal 
American,  interested  in  that  security,  I  feel  I  must  place  in  the  hands 
of  this  committee  whatever  information  I  have. 

Also  I  feel  that  since  the  American  Communist  Party  in  the  last  4 
years  hasn't  openly  and  honestly  stated  its  aims  and  its  goals  and  has 
evaded  the  issue  of  its  allegiance  to  the  Soviet  Union,  I  think  that  the 
American  people  have  a  right  to  know  which  people  have  not  yet  made 
up  their  minds. 

Also,  I  want  to  say  this,  that  I  don't  suppose  that  out  of  all  the 
people  I  knew  during  my  period  of  membership  in  the  party  there 
were  more  than,  let's  say,  five  or  six  who  could  conceivably  commit  an 
act  of  violence  against  the  United  States.  But  I  don't  know  which 
five  or  six  those  might  be  and  if  I  remain  silent  now  to  protect  the 
people  who  were  misled  I  must  share  the  responsibility  in  time  of 
crisis  for  the  acts  of  those  who  may  commit  violence. 

I  feel,  also,  that  some  of  these  people  may  now  be  out  of  the  party. 
If  so  I  am  sure  they  will  be  given  an  opportunity  equal  to  mine  to 
state  their  position. 

In  this  first  branch,  the  people  I  remember  were  Harold  Buchman, 
Robert  Rossen,  Nicholas  Bel  a,  Fred  and  Marie  Rinaldo,  John  Wexley, 
and  Maurice  Rapf. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  last  name? 

Mr.  Towtnsend.  Rapf,  R-a-p-f. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  associate  with  those  persons  in 
Communist  Party  work  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  was  in  that  branch  until  shortly  before  I  joined 
the  Office  of  Strategic  Services  in  February  of  1944. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  referred  to  a  person  by  the  name  of  John  Wex- 
ley.    Was  he  a  screen  writer  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  identify  him  a  little  further.  I  believe 
his  name  has  not  been  mentioned  before  now. 

Mr.  Townsend.  John  Wexley  is  a  screen  writer  and  playwright.  I 
believe  he  wrote  the  play  The  Last  Mile  and  I  believe  he  wrote  the  play 
They  Shall  Not  Die.     Other  than  that  I  don't  know  his  credits. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  believe  I  was  mistaken  in  stating  that  his  name 
had  not  been  mentioned  because  I  recall  now,  since  my  recollection  has 
been  refreshed,  that  he  was  definitely  mentioned  by  Mr.  Collins  in  his 
testimony. 


1512  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

You  referred  to  the  fact  that  you  entered  into  the  service  of  the 
OSS.  Will  you  explain  to  the  committee  the  circumstances  relating 
to  that  employment  I 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.  I  had  tried  to  enter  the  armed  services,  the 
Air  Force  and  the  Navy;  had  been  rejected  by  both.  I  was  ap- 
proached by  someone  to  apply  for  entrance  in  the  Office  of  Strategic 
Services.  They  were  looking  for  writers  who  were  to  go  overseas 
with  combat  troops.  I  applied  for  the  OSS  and  within  a  few  weeks 
was  notified  that  I  was  accepted.  I  automatically  left  the  Communist 
Party  before  going  into  the  service.  I  believe  it  was  the  policy  of  the 
party  at  that  time  that  anyone  in  the  armed  services  had  automati- 
cally left  the  party  before  he  entered  the  service. 

I  remained  in  the  OSS  from  February  of  1944  until  the  1st  of  July 
of  the  same  year.  My  overseas  orders  were  canceled  the  morning  I 
was  to  sail.  I  never  found  out  the  reason  why  but  I  have  reason  to 
suspect  now  that  the  reasons  were  political,  that  my  former  member- 
ship in  the  party  had  been  ascertained  through  screening  of  some 
kind.     I  don't  know  this  to  be  a  fact. 

I  was  asked  by  the  OSS  to  serve  in  its  New  York  office  and  told  they 
would  see  if  they  could  clear  my  overseas  duty.  I  waited  several 
months,  realized  that  I  probably  would  not  get  a  chance  to  go  over- 
seas. I  had  no  function  in  the  New  York  office  and  I  asked  for  my 
release,  was  granted  it  and  I  returned  to  Hollywood. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  After  you  returned  to  Hollywood  was  any  effort 
made  to  have  you  reassociated  with  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.  During  the  period  in  OSS  I  had  certain 
minor  qualms  about  the  party,  but  by  the  time  I  had  returned  to  Holly- 
wood it  had  become  the  Communist  Political  Association. 

I  was  assured  that  its  main  drive  was,  in  addition  to  the  winning  of 
the  war,  the  reelection  of  Franklin  Roosevelt.  I  was  for  both  of  these 
things.  I  reaffiliated  with  the  Communist  Political  Association.  This 
was,  I  imagine,  in  July  of  1944. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  any  one  contact  you  with  reference  to  rejoin- 
ing the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.    A  writer  named  Robert  Lees. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  the  name  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Lees,  L-e-e-s. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  identify  him  a  little  further,  please. 

Mr.  Townsend.  He  is  a  screen  writer.  I  believe  he  has  previously 
appeared  before  this  committee. 

Air.  Tavenner.  Is  the  spelling  L-e-e-s? 

Mr.  Towtnsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  misunderstood  you.  As  a  result  of  that  conference 
did  you  realign  yourself  with  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  I  did.  With  the  Communist  Political  Asso- 
ciation. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  To  what  group  were  you  assigned  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  one  was  a  group  in  what  was  called  the  north- 
west section,  I  believe.  One  of  the  writers'  groups,  I  think  there  were 
probably  four  or  maybe  five  writers'  groups  within  this  section 
arranged  geographically. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  the  names  of  the  writers  who  are 
members  of  your  group. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1513 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  will  have  to — I  was  in  that  group — let  me  preface 
this— from  July  1945  until,  I  think,  the  summer  of — July  1944  to  the 
summer  of  1945,  transferred  to  another  branch.  I  may  have  been  in 
three  branches  between  July  1944  and  1948,  when  I  left  the  party.  So 
I  would  have  to  be  vague  about  which  people  were  in  which  branch. 
I  simply  will  have  to  tell  you  the  names  I  recall  in  these  several 
branches.  I  have  already  mentioned  Robert  Lees.  There  was  Henry 
Myers 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Henry  Myers?  Let  me  ask  you  to  identify  those 
people  a  little  more  fully  with  regard  to  their  Communist  Party 
membership  and  activity,  and  their  occupation  as  you  give  their 
names. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well.  Heniy  Myers  was  a  screen  writer.  As  to  his 
Communist  identity,  I  don't  know  except  that  he  was  in  the  branch 
with  me.  I  don't  recall  him  serving  as  an  officer  of  any  kind.  Jay 
and  Sondra  Gorney  were  also  in  this  branch,  or  one  of  the  others.  Mr. 
Gorney  was  a  song  writer.  There  was  Morris  Carnovsky  and  Phoebe 
Brand,  who  was  his  wife. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  believe,  for  the  sake  of  accuracy,  it  would  be  well 
to  spell  these  names  as  you  give  them  so  there  will  be  no  mistake  or 
misunderstanding  about  them. 

(At  this  point  Representative  Donald  L.  Jackson  left  the  room.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  spoke  of  Jay  Gorney. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  the  spelling  G-o-r-n-e-y? 

Mr.  Townsend.  That's  true ;  yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  first  name  is  J-a-y,  I  believe  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Sondra  Gorney,  his  wife,  is  S-o-n-d-r-a? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  does  Mr.  Myers  spell  his  name  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  believe  it  is  M-e-y-e-r-s.4 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  you  mentioned  Morris  Carnovsky.  Will  you 
spell  the  name,  please? 

Mr.  Townsend.  That  is  C-a-r-n-o-v-s-k-y. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  first  name  is  spelled  how? 

Mr.  Townsend.  M-o-r-r-i-s.     I'm  quite  sure. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  M-o-r-r-i-s? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  think  you  named  another  person. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  named  Phoebe  Brand,  who  was  Mr.  Carnovsky's 
wife. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  that  name,  please? 

Mr.  Townsend.  The  first  name  is  P-h-o-e-b-e  and  the  last  name  is 
B-r-a-n-d. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  All  right.    If  you  will  proceed,  please. 

Mr.  Townsend.  There  was  Abe  and  Sylvia  Polonsky.  That  is 
spelled  P-o-l-o-n-s-k-y,  I  believe.  There  was  John  Weber,  W-e-b-e-r, 
who  was  a  writer's  agent  at  that  time. 

(At  this  point  Representative  John  S.  Wood  returned  to  the  room.) 

Mr.  Townsend.  There  were  Paul  and  Sylvia  Jarrico,  J-a-r-r-i-c-o ; 
there  was  Joseph  Losey,  L-o-s-e-y. 


4  Name  should  be  Henry  Myers. 


1514  COMMUNISM   IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  identify  him  further,  please. 

Mr.  Townsend.  He  is  a  film  director. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  A  film  direcor  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes ;  and  his  wife  Louise  Losey.  She  may  well  be 
out  of  the  party  at  this  time.  He  may  be,  too ;  I  don't  know.  I  hope 
they  have  a  chance  to  state  their  position  if  they  are.  There  was  a 
writer  named  Ben  Bengal,  B-e-n-g-a-1,  and  an  actress  named  Karen 
Morley.  These  are  the  names  that  I  remember  as  members  of  those 
various  branches. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  where  Karen  Morley  is  now  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  No,  sir;  I  do  not. 

(At  this  point  Representative  Donald  L.  Jackson  returned  to  the 
room.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now  will  you  proceed  with  the  naming  of  others 
that  you  can  recall. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Those  are  the  names  that  I  recall  as  members  of 
these  particular  branches. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  mentioned  a  little  earlier  in  your  testimony  the 
name  of  Nicholas  Bela,  who  was  one  of  those  members  of  the  first 
group  to  which  you  were  assigned  upon  joining  the  Communist 
Party.    Will  you  identify  that  individual  more  fully. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  don't  know  what  his  occupation  was.  He  was 
not,  to  my  knowledge,  a  screen  writer.  I  did  attend  a  large  meet- 
ing at  his  home  in  Beverly  Hills,  at  which  there  were  some  40  to  50 
people  present.  I  was  told  that  this  comprised  most  of  the  Com- 
munist screen  writers  within  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild.  This  was 
shortly  after  I  had  joined  the  party,  possibly  in  the  summer  or  spring 
of  1943. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  Ring  Larclner,  Jr.  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.  I  don't  believe  I  was  ever  in  a  party  branch 
with  Mr.  Lardner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  first  meeting  which  you  described  as  having  oc- 
curred when  you  received  the  telephone  message  from  Marjorie 
MacGregor  was  held  at  what  place,  if  you  recall  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  At  the  home  of  Harold  Buchman. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Harold  Buchman  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  position  did  Harold  Buchman  have  in  the 
industry  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Harold  Buchman  was  a  screen  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  assigned  to  any  other  branches  of  the 
Communist  Party  other  than  those  you  have  already  described? 

Mr.  Townsend.  As  I  mentioned  before,  I  was  in  this  branch  of  the 
Communist  Political  Association  from  July  of  1944  until  the  summer 
of  1945,  when  the  Duclos  letter  arrived  and  the  political  association 
very  shortly  became  once  more  the  Communist  Party.  You  have  un- 
doubtedly heard  a  lot  about  the  Duclos  letter  here? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes ;  the  committee  has  heard  a  lot  about  it  but  will 
you  just  state  in  a  general  way  what  was  involved  with  the  Duclos 
letter? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  the  war  now  was  over.  Evidently,  as  far  as 
the  Soviet  Union  was  concerned,  it  and  the  United  States  were  no 
longer  allies.     I  don't  believe  we  knew  that  here  at  the  time. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE'    INDUSTRY  1515 


Duclos  was  a  French  Communist  leader  who  expressed,  I  am  sure, 
the  direction  of  the  party  leadership  in  Moscow.  He  denounced  the 
American  leadership  of  Earl  Browder  for  harboring  the  notion  that 
capitalism  and  communism  could  exist  peacefully  in  one  world.  This 
happened  to  be  the  notion  that  the  Soviet  Union  fostered  itself  not 
more  than  a  year  or  two  before  that. 

Now,  of  course,  with  the  war  over,  when  they  no  longer  needed  us, 
this  became  a  false  premise.  We  in  the  branches  were  told,  were 
asked  to  vote,  and  we  were  given  copies  of  the  Duclos  letter,  of 
Browder's  rebuttal,  and  then  the  rebuttal  of  Browder  by  the  national 
executive  Communist  leadership  in  New  York,  all  of  whom  seemed 
to  agree  suddenly  with  Mr.  Duclos.  This  seemed  a  little  strange  to 
me  at  the  time.  We  in  the  branches  were  asked  to  discuss  this  and 
vote  on  the  ouster  of  Mr.  Browder. 

Well,  we  did  vote.  You  see,  the  party  had  a  phrase  called  demo- 
cratic centralism.  This  means,  according  to  the  party,  that  all  major 
decisions  actually  start  from  the  bottom,  from  the  rank  and  file,  and 
sift  up  to  the  top,  to  the  party  leadership,  which  then  puts  this 
directive  of  the  rank  and  file  into  action.  In  actuality  the  reverse 
was  true.  The  directives  came  from  the  top,  which  I  supposed  to  be 
in  the  New  York  headquarters,  or  which  I  supposed  there  is  a  level 
above  that  in  Moscow.  The  directives  sift  down  to  the  rank  and  file 
from  various  levels  so  that  the  phrase  "democratic  centralism"  actually 
had  no  meaning. 

There  was  plenty  of  centralism  but  no  democracy. 

We  voted  on  this.  While  we  were  in  the  process  of  voting  the  fact 
had  already  been  accomplished.  Mr.  Browder  had  already  been 
ousted.     I  don't  know  what  they  did  with  our  votes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  As  a  result  of  the  Duclos  letter  there  was  a  con- 
siderable amount  of  consternation  within  the  membership  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  in  Hollywood,  was  there  not? 

Mr.  Townsend.  There  was,  indeed.  It  took  the  party  here  by 
complete  surprise.  People  didn't  believe  it  at  first,  until  they  were 
shown  the  Duclos  letter,  until  they  realized  that  the  party  directive 
was  to  support  Duclos.  Mr.  Browder,  who  had  been  a  party  hero  up 
until,  say,  a  late  hour  on  a  certain  evening,  became  an  arch  villain 
early  the  next  morning.  This  has  happened  in  other  cases,  too,  where 
people  in  the  party,  the  hero-villain  role  seems  to  be  quite  inter- 
changeable. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  there  consequently  meetings  of  the  Commu- 
nist Party  in  Hollywood  held  in  an  effort  to  whip  the  membership 
into  the  same  line  of  thinking  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.  We  met  quite  often.  Communists  meet 
pretty  often  under  normal  circumstances.  During  this  period  it 
seemed  to  me  there  were  continuous  meetings.  I  believe  we  all  thought 
that  we  were  discussing  this  democratically.  We  didn't  realize  that 
all  our—that  we  were  wasting  our  time  and  effort  because  it  had  all 
been  decided  by  the  top  leadership  anyway. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  took  the  leadership  in  those  discussions? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  I  am  sure  it  must  have  been  John  Howard 
Lawson  who  was  actually  the  leader  of  that  section  of  the  Communist 
Party. 


1516  COMMUNISM    IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  where  the  specific  meetings  were 
held  in  which  this  subject  was  discussed? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  I  am  sure  that  some  of  them  were  held  at 
my  home.  They  were  held  at  the  homes  of  members  of  the  branch. 
It  would  be  at  the  homes  of  some  of  these  other  people  whom  I  have 
named.  I  can  remember  specifically  only  that  some  were  held  at  my 
home. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  am  going  to  ask  you  at  this  time  if  you  can 
recall  the  names  of  any  other  persons  known  to  you  to  be  members 
of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  had  met  certain  people  who  were  Communist 
Party  functionaries.  I  had  met  a  few  people  in  so-called  fraction 
meetings  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild,  people  whom  I  hadn't  met 
within  any  of  my  several  branches. 

The  party  functionaries  I  met ;  there  was  a  girl  named  Elizabeth 
Leach,  I  believe  that  is  L-e-a-c-h,  I'm  not  sure.1  Her  husband,  Charles 
Glenn 

Mr.  Tavenner.  G-1-e-n-n-  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  G-1-e-n-n.  I  believe  he  was  at  one  time  connected 
with  the  People's  World.  I  think  at  the  time  I  saw  him  in  fraction 
meetings  he  had  a  functionary  paid  position  with  the  Communist 
Party. 

There  was  a  man  named  John  Stapp,  S-t-a-p-p,  who  seemed  to  be 
the  contact  between  the  downtown  or  county  organization  and  the 
so-called  Hollywood  section.  He  would  sometimes  appear  at  fraction 
meetings  of  writers  within  the  guild.  These  fraction  meetings  were 
held,  as  a  rule,  before  any  important  matter  was  to  come  up  before  the 
entire  membership  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild.  I  remember  specifi- 
cally election  periods.  We  would  meet  in  a  fraction  for  the  purposes 
of  electioneering  purposes,  of  getting  as  many  Communists  on  the 
board  of  the  guild  as  possible  for  the  purpose  of  campaigning  among^ 
non-Communists. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  I  want  to  ask  you  a  little  more  in  detail  about 
those  fraction  meetings  and  the  work  within  the  various  guilds  at  a 
later  point  in  your  testimony.  I  believe  it  would  be  a  little  clearer 
for  our  present  purposes  now  to  go  into  those  matters  in  detail. 

Mr.  Townsend.  All  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  were  giving  us  the  names  of  Communist  Party 
functionaries. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  Carl  Winter? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.  Not  acquainted,  but  he  was  present  at  the 
meeting  I  have  previously  mentioned  at  the  home  of  Nicholas  Bela  in 
the  summer  of  1 943.  I  believe  at  that  time  he  was  the  county  chairman 
of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  were  there  other  functionaries  of  the  party 
whose  names  you  can  give  us  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  met  a  man  named  Max  Silver.  I  don't  know  what 
his  party  connection  was;  a  man  named  Nemmy  Sparks  who  was - 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  the  spelling  of  Nemmy? 

Mr.  Townsend.  N-e-m-m-y.  He  was  the  county  chairman,  I  be- 
lieve.    Whether  he  followed  Carl  Winter  directly  or  not,  I  don't  recall. 

1  In  some  instances,  referred  to  as  Elizabeth  Leech  Glenn. 


COMMUNISM    IX    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1517 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  You  also  spoke  of  having  had  occasion  to  meet 
various  people  in  fraction  meetings.  I  wonder  if  you  can  give  us  the 
names  now  at  this  time  of  persons  whom  you  met  in  fraction  meetings 
whose  names  you  have  not  previously  mentioned. 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  Yes.  I  was  about  to  say  that  most  of  the  names 
whom  I  previously  mentioned  who  were  screen  writers  would  be  pres- 
ent at  these  fraction  meetings:  in  addition  to  that  I  recall  a  writer 
named  Alvah  Bessie,  B-e-s-s-i-e. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  The  first  name  is  A-1-v-a-h? 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  Yes;  and  a  writer  named  Arnold  Manoff, 
M-a-n-o-f-f,  and  a  writer  named  Edward  Huebsch,  which  is  spelled 
H-u-e-b-s-c-h. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  H-u-e-b-s-c-h? 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Were  you  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name  of 
Mortimer  Offner? 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  Yes;  I  was.  At  one  time  shortly  before  I  left 
the  Communist  Party — I  think  this  must  have  been  late  in  1947,  in 
the  early  part  of  1948,  I  was  serving  as  an  officer  of  the  branch  I 
was  in  at  that  time.  I  was  financial  director.  My  duty  was  to  collect 
dues  and  assessments  from  the  members  of  the  branch  and  to  turn 
them  over  to,  I  believe  the  title  was,  the  section  financial  director, 
and  this  section  financial  director  was  Mr.  Offner.  I  turned  the 
money  over  to  him.  Where  it  went  from  there  I  don't  know.  I 
suppose  to  the  county  office  and  then,  I  suppose,  from  there  to  the 
national  office. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Were  you  acquainted  with  Larry  Parks? 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  Larry  Parks  I  recall  at  one  meeting  of  one  branch, 
perhaps  in  1945.  He  may  have  attended  twice.  I  think  it  was  once, 
and  I  never  saw  him  again  within  the  party. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Were  you  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name  of 
Joy  Pepper? 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  Yes :  I  was.  The  financial  directors  of  the  branches 
met  with  the  sectional  financial  director  to  turn  over  the  dues  they 
had  collected.  I  think  I  met — this  was  a  quarterly  assignment.  I 
think  I  met  twice  with  this  group  at  the  home  of  Joy  Pepper  in 
Hollywood. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Were  you  acquainted  with  Mike  Wilson? 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  Not  within — he  was  not  in  a  branch  with  me. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Were  you  acquainted  with  Sidney  Benson? 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  Yes ;  in  my  last  branch,  Sidney  Benson  appeared. 
There  was  some  controversy  within  the  branch,  argument  about  the 
Communist  Party.  Some  of  us  felt  that  it  was  not  an  American - 
party.  Others  felt  that  it  was.  Sidney  Benson  was  the  functionary 
called  in  to  defeat  those  of  us  who  held  this,  what  they  considered 
false  position.  Anti-Soviet  position  it  was  called,  and  Mr.  Benson 
hammered  us  over  the  head  for  a  whole  evening,  and  I  didn't  see 
him  again  at  any  party  meeting. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Were  you  acquainted  wth  Pauline  Lauber? 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  I  could  not  say  for  sure  that  she  was  in  a  branch 
with  me.    I  am  acquainted  with  Pauline  Lauber;  yes. 

Mr.  Tavexxer.  Was  she  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  to  your 
knowledge  ? 


1518  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  suppose  she  was,  but  under  oath  I  cannot  say  that 
she  was.    I  have 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  if  you  are  in  doubt,  I  would  rather  for  you 
not  to  say 

Mr.  Townsend.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Tavenner  (continuing) .  That  you  suppose  she  is.  If  you  have 
no  knowledge  of  your  own  that  an  individual  is  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party,  I  would  rather  for  you  to  state  that  you  do  not  have 
that  knowledge. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  certainly  will  not  name  anyone  that  I  do  not  know 
definitely  to  be  a  member  of  the  party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  other  persons  to  whom  you  have  referred  up 
until  the  present  time,  are  they  persons  known  to  you  to  be  members 
of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  You  mean  the  people 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  others  that  you  have  named. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Are  they  known  to  me  to  be  members  of  the  party 
at  the  present  time,  you  mean  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No  ;  to  have  been  members  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  yes.     Yes,  sir;  they  were. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  Meta  Reis  Rosenberg? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Again,  she  may  have  been  in  a  branch.  I  don't 
think  so.  I  know  her.  I  don't  think  that  she  was  in  a  party  branch 
with  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  She  has  testified  before  the  committee  and  has  ad- 
mitted that  she  was  formerly  a  member  and  is  no  longer  associated 
with  the  Communist  Party 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner  (continuing).  But  I  do  not  recall  what  branch  of  the 
party. 

Now,  have  you  held  any  position,  other  than  that  of  financial  direc- 
tor, that  you  mentioned,  in  the  Communist  Party  % 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.  During,  I  think,  1944—1  mean,  after  my  re- 
turn from  the  OSS,  during  that  period  and  1945  I  held  the  position  of 
literature  director  in  my  branch. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  were  your  duties  as  literature  director  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  My  duties  were  to  go  to  the  Communist  book  store 
between  meetings,  pick  up  the  current  pamphlets  and  leaflets  which 
had  been  sent  there  by  the  national  office  in  New  York,  take  them  to 
the  next  meeting,  distribute  them,  sell  them,  push  them.  This  book 
store  was  called  the  Lincoln  Book  Shop  on  Highland  Avenue  in  Holly- 
wood. I  went  there,  identified  myself  as  the  literature  director  of 
this  certain  branch,  was  taken  by  the  proprietor  to  the  back  room.  It 
wasn't  a  locked  back  room,  nothing  that  secretive  about  it,  simply 
partitioned,  but  in  the  back  room  they  had  the  boxes  of  pamphlets, 
leaflets,  books,  whatever  the  national  party  was  pushing  at  the  time 
came  out  in  those  various  forms.  This  man  would  suggest  to  me  what 
I  should  take.  I  would  then  take  this  material  to  the  branch  meet- 
ings, sell  them  to  the  members.  Now,  as  I  say,  these  pamphlets  and 
leaflets  conformed  directly  to  the  party's  line  at  the  moment. 

For  example,  in  1944  and  early— most  or  half  of  1945,  the  party 
was  pushing  Earl  Browder's  Victory  and  After.  This  was  the  book 
which  stated  that  the  goals  of  the  United  States  and  the  Soviet  Union 
were  largely  the  same ;  that  we  could  be  allies  not  only  in  war  but  in 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1519 

peace,  and  that  capitalism  and  communism  could  exist  peacefully  in 
one  world.  Pamphlets.  This  book  was  pushed  excessively.  We  were 
to  not  only  buy  copies  of  it,  ourselves,  but  see  that  it  was  distributed 
largely  in  the  community. 

Also,  there  was  the  open-the-second-front  drive.  I  am  trying 
to  say  that  these  things  are  all  tied  in  with  the  national  party  direc- 
tives so  that  we,  as  a  branch,  through  the  medium  of  the  party  litera- 
ture, could  then  carry  out  the  party  directive.  I  am  trying  to  say  that 
we  acted  as  directed. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  did  what? 

Mr.  Townsend.  We  acted  as  directed  by  the  party  headquarters. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  the  programs  that  you  held  in  your  Commu- 
nist Party  meetings  where  the  Communist  Party  line  was  discussed 
related  to  certain  definite  subjects  frequently? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  of  course.  • 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  when  you  went  to  the  book  shop  to  obtain  the 
literature  which  was  to  be  used  in  subsequent  meetings,  was  that  litera- 
ture picked  out  for  you  and  was  it  designated  for  you,  or  did  you, 
yourself,  have  to  select  that  material  which  conformed  to  the  Commu- 
nist Party  line  that  was  then  being  discussed? 

Mr.  Townsend.  It  had  been  selected  for  me  by  the  proprietor  of  the 
book  shop.  If  I  wanted  something  else  in  addition  to  this,  I  was  at 
liberty  to  take  it,  but  there  was  always  a  suggestion  by  the  proprietor 
of  the  book  shop  what  is  good  this  week. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  inform  the  head  of  the  book  shop  as  to 
the  character  of  the  material  you  wanted  or  did  he  tell  you  what  was 
in  conformity  with  the  line  which  was  being  discussed  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  He  told  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  that  indicates,  then,  a  preconceived  plan,  an 
organized  plan  by  which  the  pro-Communist  line  was  to  be  imparted 
to  the  membership  at  your  meetings  and  through  the  literature \ 

Mr.  Townsend.  Oh.  definitely.  I  think  the  literature  played  a  very 
important  part  from  the  viewpoint  of  the  national  headquarters  of 
the  party.  This  was  one  of  the  weapons  to  keep  the  membership  in 
line. 

(At  this  time  Eepresentative  Charles  E.  Potter  left  the  hearing 
room. ) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  that  indicates  that  the  Communist  Party  book 
shop  played  a  very  important  function  in  imparting  the  Communist 
Party  line  at  the  Communist  Party  meetings. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes:  certainly  it  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  was  the  head  of  the  Communist  Party  book 
shop,  I  believe  you  said  the  Lincoln 

Mr.  Townsend.  Lincoln  Book  Shop. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Book  Shop  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  am  sorry,  I  remember  him  only  as  a  man  named 
Jack. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  there  other  Communist  Party  book  shops  in 
Los  Angeles,  to  your  knowledge,  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  was  told  there  was  one  on  Seventh  Street,  I  be- 
lieve, called  the  Progressive  Book  Shop.  Other  than  that,  I  do  not 
know. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  did  you  hold  any  other  positions  within  the 
Communist  Party? 


1520  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Townsend.  No:  the  literature  director  position  and  that  of 
financial  director. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  when  you  were  financial  director  did  you  have 
the  responsibility  of  collecting  dues  of  the  members? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  did ;  yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  special  assessments  were  made,  did  you  have 
anything  to  do  with  that  phase  of  the  work  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  At  the  time  I  was  financial  director,  I  don't  recall 
any  particular  special  assessment.  I  remember  that  at  a  period  shortly 
before  that  there  was  a  drive  for  a  sum — I  think  $60,000  for  some 
emergency.  This  was  to  go  back  to  New  York.  How  this  was  met,  I 
don't  know. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  remember  what  that  emergency  was? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I'm  sorry,  I  don't.  I  believe  it  was  in  1946.  I  can't 
relate  it  at  the  moment  to  the  political  climate  of  that  particular  time. 
I  do  remember  that  in  order  to  raise  it  I  was  told  that  some  members 
of  the  party  here  were  mortgaging  their  homes  and  turning  over  the 
mortgage  money  for  this  fund. 

I  didn't  mortgage  my  home.  I  have  only  heard  this.  Again,  I  want 
to  make  sure  that  this  was  something  I  simply  heard.  I  don't  know 
this  to  be  a  fact. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  whether  it  had  anything  to  do  with 
the  Far  East  situation  or  any  work  that  was  being  done  by  the  Com- 
munist Party  in  the  Far  East  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  would  think  not.  I  am  not  sure.  It  was  money 
needed  directly  by  the  party  in  New  York.  I  don't  recall  whether 
there  was  any  defense  of  the  party  at  that  time,  money  needed  for 
that.    I  ni  sorry  I  don't  recall  what  this  money  was  needed  for. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  believe  at  this  point  the  committee  will  take  a  recess 
for  20  minutes. 

(A  recess  was  taken.) 

(At  this  point  Representative  Charles  E.  Potter  returned  to  the 
hearing  room.) 

Mr.  Wood.  We  will  have  order.  Mr.  Counsel,  are  you  ready  to 
proceed ? 

1  Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.    Will  the  witness  return  to  the  stand. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  the  witness  return  to  the  stand,  please. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Townsend,  at  the  time  of  the  recess  you  were 
telling  us  about  the  performance  of  your  duties  as  financial  director 
of  your  particular  unit  of  the  Communist  Party.  Was  your  work 
confined  to  that  of  collection  of  dues? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes;  my  work  was  confined  to  the  collection  of  dues 
and  assessments  from  the  members  of  this  particular  branch. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  were  the  dues  and  assessments? 

Mr.  Townsend.  The  dues,  as  I  recall,  were  rather  nominal ;  perhaps 
a  dollar  a  month.  The  assessments  were  on  a  percentage  basis,  a  per- 
centage of  salary.  Whether  it  was  3  or  4  percent  after  the  agent's 
commission  was  deducted — I  am  speaking  now  of  writers — I  am  not. 
sure.  I  know  that  between  1943,  through  f  946,  I  paid  assessments  of 
from  $20  to  $80  per  quarter,  depending  upon  my  income.  I  also  sup- 
ported the  party  press  with  subscriptions  and  contributions  amount- 
ing to  about  $50  a  year.  I  supported  various  other  organizations  in 
1943  to  the  amount  of  about  $400,  organizations  such  as  the  Council 
of  American-Soviet  Friendship,  Joint  Anti-Fascist  Refugee  Commit- 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE!   INDUSTRY  1521 

tee,  and  the  Hollywood  Democratic  Committee.  In  1944  I  have  a 
notation  of  a  total  of  $200,  and  an  organization  to  which  I  con- 
tributed $5  a  month  during  that  period  was  the  People's  Educational 
Association.  In  1945  I  have  a  notation  of  $250,  partly  to  People's 
Educational  Association,  partly  to  the  Hollywood  Independent  Citi- 
zens Committee.  In  1946  I  have  a  notation  of  $500,  mainly  to  the  same 
organizations.  This  was  in  addition  to  my  party  dues  and  assess- 
ments. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Those  items,  you  say,  were  in  addition  to  the  dues 
and  assessments? 

Mr.  Towxsend.  Yes.  Now,  when  I  was  financial  director  during 
1947— the  latter  part  of  1947  and  the  first  half  of  1948,  I  would  say, 
most  of  the  high-salaried  writers  by  that  time  were  not  employed,  so 
I  never  collected  a  large  amount  of  dues  or  assessments.  I  think  in 
these  two  meetings  I  had  with  the  section  financial  director  in  which  I 
turned  over  money,  I  don't  think  at  either  time  I  turned  over  in  excess 
of  $200. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  you  spoke  of  an  item  of  $500 — 

Mr.  Townsend.  That  was 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Contributed  by  you  personally  to  certain  organiza- 
tions. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  type  of  organizations  to  which 
you 

Mr.  Townsend.  Those  which  I  have  read  to  you. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  instructions  did  you  receive,  if  any,  from  the 
leadership  in  the  Communist  Party  as  to  your  activity  in  outside 
organizations? 

Mr.  Townsend.  We  were  all  asked  or  directed,  let  me  say,  to  work 
in  what  was  called  a  mass  organization,  whether  that  be  the  Screen 
Writers'  Guild,  whether  it  be  the  Independent  Citizens  Committee 
which  is  now  the  Arts,  Sciences,  and  Professions  Council — we  were 
asked  to  enter  some  organization  and  to  work  in  that  organization. 

Mi-.  Tavenner.  In  other  words,  your  work  in  those  organizations 
constituted  pa  it  of  your  assignment 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  As  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  I  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  describe  your  activity  in  the  Screen  Writ- 
ers' Guild. 

Mr.  Townsend.  From  the  Communist 

Mr.  Tavenner.  While  n  member. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  From  the  standpoint  of  your  membership  in  the 
Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  I  attended  fraction  meetings  of  the  writers 
within  the  guild  whenever  an  issue  was  coming  before  the  membership 
of  the  guild,  whenever  an  important  election  was  coming  up.  I,  my- 
self, served  on  the  board  of  the  guild  in  1946  and  1947,  I  believe,  up 
until  the  guild  elections  in  1947.  At  that  time— I  must  say  in  my 
opinion  that  the  Communist  minority  never  controlled  the  Screen 
Writers'  Guild.     The   vast   majority  of  the  membership   somehow 


1522  COMMUNISM    IX    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

managed  to  keep  it  democratic  and  act  as  a  majority  does  by  running 
it,  I  believe  finally  in  1947  they  got  a  little  sick  of  the  Communist 
speech  making-  within  the  guild,  and  I  believe  at  that  time  the  elections 
were  in  November,  the  board  elections,  I  believe.  Prior  to  that  a  great 
majority  of  the  members  of  the  guild  formed  an  organization  which 
went  to  work  to  defeat  the  Communists  within  the  guild,  and  I  must 
say  that  in  1947  they  destroyed  the  Communist  influence  in  the  guild 
completely  and,  as  far  as  I  know,  there  is  no  Communist  in  any  posi- 
tion of  importance  in  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  today  or  has  been 
since  that  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  "Was  there  concerted  effort  on  the  part  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  to  capture  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  am  sure  it  would  be  their  desire  to  capture  it,  to 
control  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild,  just  as  it  was  their  desire  to  control 
what  the  screen  writer  could  do  in  the  motion-picture  industry,  to 
control  the  medium,  to  control  the  content  of  film,  and  I  must  say 
that  I  think  they  got  not  even  one  step  toward  first  base  in  this  with 
the  motion-picture  industry.  I  don't  know  of  any  Communist  mo- 
tion picture,  nor  do  I  know  of  any  motion  picture  with  Communist 
propaganda.  I  don't  think  that  the  Communists  succeeded  in  the  least 
in  getting  any  propaganda  into  any  motion  picture.  I  think  the  indus- 
try has  been  very,  very  careful  about  this  and  very  good  about  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  what,  in  your  opinion,  was  the  purpose  of  the 
Communist  Party  in  making  an  effort  to  capture  the  Screen  Writers'" 
Guild,  or,  might  I  say,  to  recruit  into  the  Communist  Party  screen 
writers  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  one  of  the  purposes  could  be  that  there  were 
many  high-salaried  people  among  the  screen  writers.  This  meant  a 
great  source  of  income  to  the  party,  it  meant  prestige  in  some  cases — 
it  meant — it  gave  them  an  effective  weapon.  A  writer,  obviously,  can 
write;  the  party  needs  writing.  I  am  thinking  in  terms  of  the  strike 
situation,  the  studio  strike  situation. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  At  times  writers  become  quite  vocal;  do  they  not? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes;  sometimes  too  vocal.  I  hope  I  am  not  be- 
ing so. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  had  intended  to  make  no  inference  of  that  kind. 

Mr.  Walter.  He  was  here  all  morning. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  If  the  Communist  Party  could  control  the  thinking 
of  the  writers  by  indoctrination,  would  it  not  to  a  great  extent  control 
the  content  of  films  and  even  in  an  insidious  manner? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  am  afraid  not,  sir,  because  the  steps  are  many 
between  the  script  and  the  film  as  you  see  it  on  the  screen.  It  must 
go  from  the  writer  to  the  producer,  the  director,  in  some  cases  an 
executive  producer,  and  in  some  cases  the  head  of  the  studio.  I  don't 
believe  that  any  heads  of  any  studios  in  town  are  now  or  have  ever 
been  members  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Would  that  not  mean  in  effect  that  the  success  of 
the  Communist  Party  would  be  limited  only  bv  the  alertness  of  those 
in  the  industry  who  had  the  great  responsibility  of  reviewing  films?" 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes ;  of  course.  I  think  they  have  been  extremely 
alert. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  for  alertness  the  Communist  Party  would, 
through  its  indoctrination  of  writers,  have  been  able  to  exert  an  influ- 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1523 

ence  and  effect  upon  films  which  would,  not  be  to  the  best  public 
interest  of  this  country? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  still  think  that  they  couldn't  accomplish  this 
without  also  indoctrinating  the  Screen  Directors'  Guild,  indoctrinat- 
ing the  producers  and  indoctrinating  the  executive  heads  of  the  studios. 
This  is  a  difficult  task. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  spoke  of  fraction  meetings  within  the  Screen 
Writers'  Guild  at  the  time  you  were  a  member.  By  fraction  meetings 
do  you  mean  the  meetings  of  Communist  Party  members  of  the  guild  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  that's  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  Communist  members  who  were  also  members  of 
the  guild  would  meet  in  these  fraction  meetings  for  what  purpose  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  To  set  a  plan  of  operation  at  the  membership  meet- 
ing of  the  guild.  Sometimes  it  would  be  decided  who  would  speak, 
who  would  make  a  speech  on  a  certain  issue,  and  who  would  follow 
him.  Especially  if  electioneering.  This  fraction  was  effective  because 
it  had  a  chance  to  push  candidates  for  the  board  who  were  members 
of  the  Communist  Party,  because  each  of  us  was  given  a  list  of  10  or  15 
noncommunist  members  of  the  guild  and  directed  to  campaign  with 
them. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  were  members  of  the  Communist  Party  who 
met  with  you  in  fraction  meetings  of  the  guild  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  as  I  say,  most  of  the  people  I  have  named  as 
being  present  in  branches  would  have  been  there  and  in  addition  these 
names  I  recall  as  having  seen  at  fraction  meetings  and  not  having  seen 
in  the  branch  meetings. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  all  writers  were  required  to  be 
members  of  the  guild ;  were  they  not  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Oh,  yes.  I  think  the  guild  had  an  80-percent  shop, 
I  believe  it  is  called,  with  the  Producers'  Association.  Eighty  percent 
of  the  people  employed  at  studios  had  to  be  members  of  the  guild.  So 
that  any  writer,  actually,  should  be  a  member  of  the  Screen  Writers' 
Guild.  * 

Mr.  Tavenner.  According  to  your  best  judgment,  what  was  the 
maximum  number  of  members  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  who  were 
at  any  time  during  your  membership  members  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  think  that  maximum  was  approximately  50  Com- 
munist members  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  and  I  think  that  was 
probably  in  1944.  I  believe  that  was  the  peak,  and  it  gradually 
dwindled  from  there  on. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  Communist  Party  publications,  such  as  Polit- 
ical Affairs,  used  as  a  source  of  determining  the  current  Communist 
Party  line  at  meetings  of  the  Communist  cells  which  you  attended; 
that  is,  within  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.  You  are  referring  to  the  Communist  branches 
of  which  I  was  a  member. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  let  us  direct  the  question  to  that  point . 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.  Well,  the  magazine  Political  Affairs  had 
once  been  called  The  Communist,  I  believe,  and  during  the  Communist 
Political  Association — is  that  the  word,  I  forget — period,  it  became 
Political  Affairs.    Often  there  was  a  report  by  a  member  of  a  branch 

81595— 51— pt.  4 8 


1524  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

to  the  branch  and  material  for  this  report  would  be  obtained,  as  a  rule, 
from  one  of  the  party  publications  such  as  Political  Affairs. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  We  have  had  considerable  testimony  from  witnesses 
who  were  members  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild,  and  others,  as  to 
the  effort  made  by  the  Communist  Party  to  capture  both  the  guilds 
and  the  unions  in  the  industry  and  we  have  had  considerable  evidence 
relating  to  strikes  which  occurred.  I  would  like  to  ask  you  whether 
during  any  of  the  wage  disputes,  or  jurisdictional  disputes,  or  strikes, 
you,  as  a  Communist,  received  any  instructions  or  directions  from  the 
Communist  Party  as  to  your  participation  in  any  manner  or  form. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.  I  was  asked,  or  I  believe  all  of  our  branches 
were  asked — members  in  the  branches  were  asked — to  volunteer  as  ob- 
servers of  the  picket  lines.  Observers  were  supposed  to  report  any 
show  of  violence  or  brutality  on  the  picket  lines.  I  didn't  see  any. 
I  suppose  the  reason  for  this  now  was  that  if  there  were  such  an 
activity  the  Communist  Party  could  use  it  for  propaganda  means. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  any  incident  come  to  your  attention  where 
members  of  the  Communist  Party  purposely  provoked  an  incident 
which  could  be  used  by  them  for  propaganda  purposes? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  can't  say  that  I  know  of  such  an  incident.  You 
mean  that  the  Communists  provoked  a  show  of  violence? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.    In  order  to  be  able  to  use  it. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I'm  sorry;  I  don't  know.  I  was  asked,  as  other 
Communist  members  of  the  guild  were  asked  during  the  strike,  to 
help  write  pamphlets  and  leaflets  for  the  Conference  of  Studio 
Unions. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  receive  any  direction  from  the  Communist 
Party  to  aid  in  any  manner  in  the  propaganda  work  that  was  done, 
in  connection 

Mr.  Townsend.  You  may  not  have  heard  my  last  answer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Maybe  I  did  not. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  said  that  I,  as  well  as  other  writer  Communists, 
were  asked  to  write  pamphlets  and  leaflets  in  support  of  the  Con- 
ference of  Studio  Unions. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  you  spoke  of  acting  as  observer,  were  you  re- 
quested to  act  in  that  capacity  by  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  As  I  recall  it,  I  was  requested  to  act  in  that  ca- 
pacity. The  request  came  through  a  branch  meeting  of  the  Com- 
munist Party.  There  had  been  a  committee  set  up,  I  don't  recall  now 
whether  this  was  set  up  by  the  Communist  Party,  but  there  were 
non-Communists  on  the  committee,  as  I  recall. 

Mi-.  Tavenner.  Are  you  acquainted  or  did  you  become  acquainted 
while  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  with  a  person  by  the  name 
of  Ben  Barzman,  B-a-r-z-m-a-n? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  Ben  Barzman  was  in  a  branch  with  me.  I 
did  not  name  him  this  morning.    I  had  forgotten  that  name. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  there  any  others  whose  names  that  you  can 
now  recall?  Let  me  ask  you  at  that  point,  do  you  know  whether  or 
not  his  wife  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  she  also  was  a  member  of  the  same  branch. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  her  name? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Norma. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Describe  Mr.  Barzman  a  little  further  for  the 
committee. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1525 

Mr.  Townsend.  Mr.  Barznian  was  a  screen  writer.  Do  you  mean 
a  physical  description  \ 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No.  his  occupation. 

Mr.  Townsend.  His  occupation  was  that  of  a  screen  writer.  I 
don't  know  his  credits. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well. 

Mr.  Townsend.  The  only  other  person  I  recall  is  a  person  who 
has  been  out  of  the  party,  as  far  as  I  know,  for  some  time.  Her  name 
is  Bess  Taffel.  She  was1  in  a  branch  with  me,  I  think,  in  1945 ;  attend- 
ed quite  irregularly  and  then  disappeared  completely.  I  was  advised 
she  had  left  the  party  at  that  time.  I  haven't  seen  her  since,  so  I 
don't  know.    I  am  sure  she  is  still  out. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  her  occupation? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Screen  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  know  a  person  by  the  name  of  Alfred 
Louis  Levitt? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Not  within  the  party  branch,  no. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  know  a  person  by  the  name  of  Leo 
Bigelman? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.  At  one  time  during  my  membership  he  con- 
ducted a  class  in  Marxism,  I  believe  it  was,  at  which  my  wife  and  I 
attended.  This  ran  for  about  1  night  a  week  for  6  weeks,  I  believe. 
This  must  have  been  in  19 — I  am  guessing — 44. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  "Were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  at 
that  time? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  I  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  this  a  Communist  Party  meeting  which  Dr. 
Bigelman  was  conducting? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  take  it  for  granted  it  was.  It  was  classes  in 
Marxism.  Whether  the  people  attending  them  were  all  Communists 
or  not,  I  don't  know.  I  would  take  it  for  granted  that  the  instructor 
would  be  Communist. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name 
of  Dan  James? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Not  within — I  know  Dan  James. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you,  of  your  own  knowledge,  know  that  he  was 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  had  heard  that  he  had  left  the  Communist  Party. 
I  don't  know  whether  you  would  consider  that  knowledge  of  mem- 
bership. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  did  you  hear  that  from  him  or  from  some 
outside  source  \ 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  heard  it  from  him. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  From  him? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  I  think  that  is  direct  testimonv.  Now,  what 
were  the  circumstances  under  which  you  heard  that? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Simply  that  I  told  him  I  had  been  out  since  1948 
and  that  he  told  me  he  also  had  left  the  party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name  of 
Marguerite  Roberts  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  know  her.  I  was  never  in  a  party  branch  with 
Marguerite  Roberts. 


1526  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  have  described  for  the  committee  the  general 
effect  of  the  Duclos  letter  and  the  results  in  this  community.  What 
effect  did  the  Duclos  letter  have  upon  you,  individually  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  it  was  the  first  indication  to  me  that  this 
organization  was  not  a  democratic  one.  I  probably  should  have  left  the 
party  at  that  time.  I  must  say  it  is  rather  difficult  to  leave  the  party. 
It  seems  quite  easy  to  get  into  it,  or  did  at  that  time ;  difficult  to  leave, 
because  once  one  lias  been  in  the  party  for  several  years  he  becomes 
more  or  less  insulated  against  the  outside  world.  You  see  only  Com- 
munist people  as  a  rule.  Your  thinking  is  done  for  you  by  directive. 
Now,  to  get  out,  unless  you  get  out  emotionally,  which  I  did  not — to 
get  out  takes  a  long  period  of  individual  thinking,  gradual  realization 
of  what  this  party  is,  that  it  is  not  a  political  party ;  that  it  is  not  an 
American  party. 

This,  in  my  case,  took  a  little  time  to  come  to  these  several  con- 
clusions, and  I  would  like  to  say  a  few  things  about  that,  but  before 
that  I  would  like  to  say  that  even  after  one  leaves  the  party  there 
are  still  emotional,  personal  ties  which  carry  on  for  a  certain  period, 
and  I  want  to  give  two  examples. 

I  had  been  out  of  the  party  over  a  year  when  Lester  Cole  came  to  me, 
asked  me  to  write  a  story,  an  original  for  the  screen  with  him  which 
would  be  submitted  under  my  name  for  sale  to  the  motion  picture  in- 
dustry. I  agreed  on  an  emotional,  personal  basis,  because  Mr.  Cole 
was  shortly  going  to  jail.  He  had  a  wife  and  two  children.  I  thought 
perhaps  a  little  money  would  help  them.    The  story  did  not  sell. 

About  2  months  after  that 


Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  ask  you  in  that  connection 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  anyone  in  the  production — that  phase  of  the 
business,  the  producer  or  director,  have  any  knowledge  of  this  ar- 
rangement \ 

Mr.  Townsend.  Only  the  agent  who  was  selling  the  story  or  was 
attempting  to  sell  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  was  he  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  George  Willner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  All  right. 

Mr.  Townsend.  A  couple  of  months  after  this,  in  the  spring — early 
spring  of  1950,  Mr.  Willner  called  me  and  told  me  that  Dalton  Trumbo 
was  in  desperate  need  of  money.  He,  too,  was  about  to  go  to  jail.  He 
had  written  an  original  for  the  screen.    Would  I  lend  my  name  to  it  ? 

Well,  again,  emotionally  and  personally,  I  agreed  on  the  basis  that 
if  it  sold  I  would  get  no  money.  Trnmbo  had  a  wife  and,  I  believe,, 
three  children,  none  of  whom  were  Communists,  who  might  need 
money  during  his  incarceration.  I  agreed  to  do  this.  Again,  this 
story  did  not  sell. 

Now,  a  month  or  so  after  that  the  North  Koreans  I  think  inspired 
by  the  Soviet  Union,  started  the  Korean  war  and  I  realized  at  that 
moment  one  could  no  longer  have  emotional  or  personal  ties  with  the 
Communist  Party  or  members  of  it.  If  I  may  further  answer  the 
question  about  my  leaving  the  party,  what  process  I  went  through — if 
that  is  in  order  now.     Is  it? 

Mr.  Tayi.n ner.  Yes.  I  would  like  for  you  to  describe  any  condition 
that  you  desire  to  describe  relating  to  your  leaving  the  party  and  in 
doing  it,  the  thing  that  I  am  certain  the  committee  is  interested  in  is  to- 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1527 

have  such  knowledge  within  your  possession  that  would  enable  them  to 
conclude  in  their  own  minds  whether  your  break  with  the  Communist 
Party  has  been  definite,  complete,  and  final. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.  Well,  when  one  goes  into  a  period  of  indi- 
vidual thinking,  individual  consideration,  as  I  say  it  is  difficult.  You 
must,  in  a  sense,  remove  yourself  from  this  group  even  though  you  are 
still  in  it.  I  had  come  to  the  conclusion  that  a  member  of  the  Commu- 
nist Party  has  a  double  allegiance.  He  claims  he  is  loyal  to  the  United 
States,  while  at  the  same  time  his  party  membership  makes  him  loyal  to 
the  Soviet  Union.    In  his  heart  he  must  be  loyal  to  the  Soviet  Union. 

In  time  of  crisis,  I  think  he  will  be  asked  to  choose  between  these 
two  allegiances,  and  I  think  he  will  choose  his  first  allegiance,  which  is 
to  the  party,  and  which,  in  turn,  is  to  the  Soviet  Union.  I  think  an 
example  of  that — I  was  quite  shocked  at  the  testimony  in  Washington 
of  Waldo  Salt  when  he  was  asked  what  I  thought  to  be  a  very  simple 
question  which,  I  believe,  was  in  case  of  an  unprovoked  attack  by  the 
Soviet  Union  upon  the  United  States  would  you  defend  the  United 
States?  This  gentleman  did  not,  as  far  as  I  know,  answer  this  ques- 
tion. He  argued  with  the  committee.  He  obviously  hadn't  settled  the 
matter  in  his  own  mind.  There  may  be  others.  Wouldn't  you  say  that 
such  a  person  is  potentially  dangerous  ?    I  would. 

I  think  there  is  no  place  in  the  Communist  Party  for  a  loyal  Ameri- 
can, nor  is  there  a  place  in  America  for  a  group  which  calls  itself  an 
American  political  party  but  which  is.  in  essence,  a  conspiratorial 
organization  devoted  to  the  destruction  of  American  democracy.  Now, 
I  want  to  say,  too,  that  the  Communists  have  been  blaming  these  in- 
vestigations of  this  committee,  as  they  blame  every  attempt  to  unmask 
the  party  for  silencing  on  its  liberal  opinion.  I  think  that  the 
Communists  have  neutralized  the  liberals.  I  think  the  Communists 
in  a  large  sense  have  destroyed  the  liberal  movement  in  this  country. 
I  think  that  by  their  treating  everything  as  black  and  white — I  think 
that  a  man  can  be  politically  left  of  center  without  being  a  Commu- 
nist, just  as  he  can  be  right  of  center  without  being  a  Fascist,  and  I 
believe — I  would  like  to  say  this  as  a  personal  thought.  I  think  there 
are  a  few  misguided  liberals  who  may  not  speak  to  me  as  the  result  of 
my  testimony  here,  and  I  say  that  these  people  are  still  living  in  an 
age  of  innocence.  Several  years  ago  all  of  us  fought  with  all  our 
might  against  German  and  Italian  fascism.  Today  there  is  a  section 
of  people  who  shut  their  eyes  to  Soviet  fascism.  I  think  it  is  time 
that  they  open  them ;  if  what  I  say  here  and  if  what  this  committee 
does  here  can  help  those  people,  I  think  that  this  will  show  a  large 
measure  of  success  in  addition  to  what  the  other  committee  is  doing. 

I  would  like  to  quote,  if  I  may,  just  a  couple  of  sentences  from  an 
interesting  article  I  read  in  a  recent  issue  of  the  Saturday  Review  of 
Literature  by  Mr.  Peter  Varat,  associate  professor  at  Mount  Holyoke 
College,  in  line  with  this  very  thing.     He  says : 

This  kind  of  liberal  tends  to  avoid  the  real  facts  of  Soviet  Russia,  such  as 
the  enormous  aid  given  to  Germany  during  the  Hitler-Stalin  Pact ;  the  Stalinist 
purge  of  all  Lenin-Marxist  associates ;  the  postwar  anti-Semitic  drive  in  the 
Soviet  Union;  the  slave  labor  camps;  increasing  class  lines  and  pay  differentials 
between  Soviet  rich  and  poor,  so  much  greater  than  the  capitalist  United  States. 

I  think  that  the  Communists  who  decry  the  lack  of  freedom  in  this 
country  haven't  given  thought  to  the  amount  of  freedom  allowed 
the  people  in  the  Soviet  Union.     Let's  say  the  artists,  the  sciences, 


1528  COMMUNISM    IX    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

and  professions,  to  use  the  title  of  this  organization.  It  is  art  by 
decree,  science  by  decree,  writing  by  decree. 

The  Constitution  of  the  Soviet  Union — I  have  read  it  and  it  is 
a  beautiful  document.  It  guarantees  freedom  of  the  press,  freedom 
of  religion.  Among  other  things,  I  take  this  to  mean,  freedom  of 
religion  to  mean  freedom  to  worship  Stalin  to  whatever  extent  one 
wishes;  freedom  of  the  press,  I  must  say.  must  mean  freedom  to  read 
every  issue  of  Pravda  or  every  other  issue  of  Pravda.  There  isn't 
much  choice. 

I  think,  also,  that  there  have  been  charges  that  this  committee  has 
been  smearing  Hollywood.  Again  this  is  the  Communist  tactic  of 
reversing  the  actual  situation,  because  when  a  man  says,  "I  am  not 
on  trial  here,  the  committee  is  on  trial,'"'  I  believe  someone  said  that 
at  an  earlier  hearing. 

(At  this  point  Representative  Donald  L.  Jackson  left  the  hearing 
room. ) 

Mr.  Townsend.  In  my  opinion  I  think  the  smearing  of  the  indus- 
try has  been  done  by  the  Communist  Party,  a  small  minority  within 
this  basically  decent  industry  and  basically  decent  community.  I 
think  that  this  community,  together  with  the  motion-picture  indus- 
try, can,  with  this  hearing,  put  an  end  to  the  Communist  smear  cam- 
paign. 

I  would  like  to  say  for  myself  that  I  am  grateful  for  the  dignity 
and  fairness  with  which  I  have  been  treated  and  with  which  this 
committee  operates.  I  am  convinced  that  you  are  after  information, 
not  headlines.  I  think  there  is  no  martyrdom  here  except  those  who 
choose  martyrdom. 

I  would  like  to  say  that  I  have  aided  this  committee,  as  I  believe 
we  face  a  strong  potential  enemy  abroad,  an  enem}*  which  shouts 
of  peace  while  it  prepares  for  war.  while  it  is  aiding — and  killing 
Americans  in  Korea  at  this  moment.  I  think  to  keep  our  Nation 
strong  all  of  us  who  can  help  must  do  what  we  can  to  expose  the 
enemy  within  our  country. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Before  yielding  to  the  members  of  the  committee  for 
such  questions  as  they  may  desire  to  ask  the  witness,  it  is  approaching 
the  noon  hour  and  we  will  take  a  recess  for  1  hour. 

(Whereupon  a  recess  was  taken  at  12:  30  p.  m.  until  1 :  30  p.  m.  of 
the  same  day.) 

AFTERNOON    SESSION 

(Whereupon,  at  the  hour  of  1 :  50  p.  m.  of  the  same  day,  the  pro- 
ceedings were  resumed,  the  same  parties  being  present. ) 

Mr.  Wood.  The  committee  will  be  in  order,  please.  I  would  like 
to  take  advantage,  of  this  opportunity  to  reannounce  and  reaffirm  the 
long-standing  policy  of  this  committee  that  any  person  whose  name 
is  identified  before  this  committee  in  testimony  of  any  other  witness 
as  having  been  connected  or  associated  with  either  the  Communist 
Party  or  any  other  subversive  organization,  that  this  committee 
will  be  glad  to  afford  them  an  opportunity  to  appear  before  the 
committee  at  such  time  as  may  be  mutually  arranged  for  the  purpose 
of  replying  to  such  accusation,  denying  or  explaining  the  same. 

Are  you  ready  to  proceed,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1529 

If  your  Honor  recalls,  the  witness,  Mr.  Leo  Townsend,  was  on 
the  stand  and  the  committee  members  had  not  yet  questioned  him. 
Mr.  Wood.  Will  Mr.  Townsend  return  to  the  stand. 

TESTIMONY  OF  LEO  TOWNSEND— Resumed 

Mr.  Wood.  I  will  now  yield  to  the  members  of  the  committee  if 
there  are  any  questions  they  desire  to  ask. 

Mr.  Walter.  Mr.  Townsend,  I  want  to  take  this  opportunity  to 
congratulate  you  on  having  the  courage  to  come  here  and  make  the 
statement  that  you  made.  I  know  it  wasn't  an  easy  thing  to  do  but  you 
have  made  a  great  contribution  in  the  struggle  for  freedom  and  I 
congratulate  you. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  thank  you.  I  felt  that  I  was  speaking  not  only 
for  myself  but  for  the  motion-picture  industry. 

Mr.  Walter.  During  the  course  of  your  testimony  you  deplored  the 
fact  that  the  United  States  Communists  have  not  stated  their  goal  and 
aims  at  this  time.  In  view  of  that  fact  don't  you  feel  that  the  goals 
and  aims  are  the  same  as  they  were  before  Korea  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  I  think  their  goals  and  aims  change  ac- 
cording to  the  change  of  policy  of  the  Soviet  Union.  What  I  said 
was  that  they  have  not  openly,  as  far  as  I  know,  proclaimed  these 
aims  to  the  American  people.  I  think  that  this  is  a  dishonest 
position. 

Mr.  Walter.  That  being  the  fact,  don't  you  think  it  is  safe  to 
conclude  that  their  aims  are  what  they  have  always  been,  namely 
world  domination? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.  Their  aims  are  the  aims  of  the  Soviet  Union, 
in  my  opinion. 

Mr.  Walter.  Mr.  Townsend,  you  stated  that  you  aided  in  the 
activities  of  the  National  Council  of  American-Soviet  Friendship. 
Was  that  a  Communist-front  organization  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  am  quite  sure  it  was.  I  aided  it  in  terms  of  con- 
tributing money. 

Mr.  Walter.  Yes. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  it  was  a  Communist-front  organization. 

Mr.  Walter.  Was  it  a  Communist  organization  throughout  the 
United  States  or  just  in  particular  parts  of  it  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  have  no  knowledge  of  other  branches  of  it,  The 
organization  here  was  fostered  by  Communists. 

Mr.  Walter.  In  your  contact  with  Communists,  have  you  discussed 
with  them  the  known  conditions  that  exist  behind  the  iron  curtain? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  have  tried  to  from  time  to  time,  but  Communists 
seem  completely  to  disregard  these  facts.  They  refuse,  somehow,  to 
believe  them. 

Mr.  Walter.  What  do  they  have  to  say  about  the  avowed  purpose 
of  liquidating  free  nations,  Latvia,  Estonia,  and  Lithuania? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  believe  that  that,  in  Communist  parlance,  is  called 
"liberating  these  nations." 

Mr.  Walter.  Liberating  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Walter.  Do  you  suppose  the  same  term  is  used  in  describing 
what  is  happening  in  Poland  today  where  approximately  5  million 
of  the  intelligentsia  have  been  liberated? 


1530  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  of  course,  I  think  that  is  the  Communist 
Soviet  pattern  with  all  those  nations,  that  they  move  in ;  they  take  over 
the  nation ;  soon  there  is  no  freedom  of  thought,  religion,  or  anything. 
It  becomes 

Mr.  Walter.  I  understand  that,  of  course,  but  having  had  much  to 
do  with  the  displaced  persons  program,  it  so  happens  that  I  am  chair- 
man of  the  Immigration  Committee  and  I  know  much  of  the  condi- 
tions that  exist  in  Euroj^e,  conditions  that  we  attempted  to  alleviate. 
It  is  inconceivable  to  me  that  any  American  would  be  willing  to  belong 
to  an  organization  associated  with  another  group  doing  the  things 
and  having  done  the  things  that  have  been  done  throughout  the  world. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  I  agree  with  you  there.  I  can't  understand 
it,  myself. 

Mr.  Wood.  Is  that  all,  Mr.  Walter  ? 

Mr.  Walter.  That  is  all,  Mr.  Wood. 

Mr. Wood.  Mr. Doyle? 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Townsend,  in  answering  questions  directed  to  you 
by  my  distinguished  colleague  from  Pennsylvania  just  now,  Mr. 
Walter,  I  notice  you,  with  reference  to  the  three  nations  he  questioned 
you  about,  said  the  Soviet  theory  of  that  was  the  liberation.  You 
remember  you  used  the  term  "liberation." 

Am  I  to  understand  from  you,  therefore,  that  that  same  term  is 
now  applied  or  was  applied  to  our  own  country  during  the  time  you 
were  a  Communist?  In  other  words,  would  they  apply  the  same  terms 
toward  their  thinking  of  our  country?  Would  they  undertake  to 
liberate  our  country  in  the  same  way  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  don't  recall  any  discussion  of  that  in  terms  of  the 
European  countries.  It  may  have  been  a  long-range  program.  There 
was  no  immediate  necessity  for  liberating,  or  chance  for,  shall  we  say, 
liberating  the  United  States. 

Mr.  Doyle.  In  other  words,  merely  because  they  thought  there  was 
no  chance  to  apply  force  and  violence  toward  liberating,  under  the 
■Soviet  theory,  the  United  States  from  its  capitalistic  system,  they 
didn't  apply  the  term  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Why  did  you  go  to  Warner  Bros,  and  tell  them  your 
story?  You  related  that  "Warner  Bros,  told  me  my  testimony  would 
in  no  way  affect  my  employment." 

Mr.  Townsend.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Why  did  you  go  to  them? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  felt  I  should  be  honest  with  them.  If  they  had 
not  known  that  I  had  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  if  they 
had  not  known  that  I  had  been  subpenaed,  if  they  had  not  known  that 
I  was  to  appear  before  this  committee,  I  wanted  to  be  completely 
honest  with  them.  I  went  to  them,  told  them  I  had  been  subpenaed, 
told  them  I  planned  to  testify.  They  said,  "Your  testimony  will  in 
no  way  affect  your  employment  here.  We  feel  that  anyone  who  co- 
operates with  this  committee  is  doing  the  industry  a  service." 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  wish  to  say,  in  answer  to  my  question,  it  was  very 
commendable  of  Warner  Bros,  to  so  declare  to  you. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  agree  completely. 

Mr.  Doyle.  That  is  certainly  evidence  of  cooperation  on  the  part 
of  the  employer  in  an  effort  to  help  clean  up  the  mess. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1531 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  know  I  didn't  ask  them  to  take  this  stand,  this 
came  voluntarily  from  Warner  Bros. 

Mr.  Doyle.  This  morning  you  stated  you  wondered  if  there  were 
ways  you  could  help  cure  conditions.  You  stated  there  had  been  two 
wars,  there  had  been  a  depression,  we  were  then  at  war  with  Germany, 
and  we  were  allies  of  Russia.  Do  you  remember  the  portion  of  the 
testimony  to  which  I  am  directing  your  attention  now  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  I  do. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  made  you  come  to  the  conclusion,  if  anything, 
that  within  the  structure  of  the  existing  political  party  framework 
you  couldn't  give  expression  to  your  own  problems  and  viewpoints? 
What  was  it  that  made  you  reach  out  to  find  some  other  avenue  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Simply  that  I  got  the  feeling  that  this  other  group 
was  working  more  actively  at  that  moment  toward  the  goals.  And 
this  is  true,  they  were  at  that  time  because  it  happened  to  suit  the 
policy  of  the  Soviet  Union. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  the  depression  have  any  definite  effect  on  your 
thinking? 

Mr.  Townsend.  On  my  thinking  ? 

Mr.  Doyle.  Yes. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  of  course.  I  think  it  had  an  effect  on  the  think- 
ing of  a  lot  of  Americans. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  stated,  "I  feel  I  should  cooperate  with  the  Con- 
gressmen. If  I  don't  cooperate  now  I  would  share  the  responsibility 
of  conditions  that  might  develop."  What  conditions  do  you  have 
in  mind  that  might  develop  over  which  you  would  feel  a  portion  of 
responsibility  if  you  did  not  come  in  and  make  a  clean  breast  of  it,  as 
you  have  done  today,  and  help  clean  up  the  mess  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  am  thinking  of  conditions  such  as  say  a  time  of 
national  emergency,  say  a  possible  war  between  the  United  States 
and  the  Soviet  Union,  which  I  hope  will  not  take  place.  In  such  an 
emergency  my  fear  is  that  people  who  are  at  present  members  of  the 
Communist  Party,  who  are  used  to  taking  directives,  will  continue  to 
take  directives,  and  if  they  are  asked  to  commit  an  act  of  violence  some 
of  them  may. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Am  I  to  understand  then  that  the  import  of  your  an- 
swer is,  or  does  it  go  this  far,  that  your  belief  is  that  generally  speak- 
ing the  members  of  the  Communist  Party  would,  if  there  was  war 
between  Soviet  Russia  and  the  United  States  of  America,  that  gen- 
erally speaking  the  members  of  the  American  Communist  Party 
would  share  sympathy  and  possibly  action  with  the  Soviet  Union  in 
preference  to  the  United  States  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  As  I  said  before,  I  think  that  members  of  the 
Communist  Party  in  America  must  have  a  double  allegiance.  In 
time  of  crisis  if  they  are  asked  to  make  a  choice  they  will  choose  their 
first  allegiance,  which  I  am  convinced  will  be  to  the  Communist  Party, 
which  is  to  the  Soviet  Union. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  asked  you  that  question  because  following  the  party 
line,  according  to  your  testimony,  it  logically  leads  to  the  bearing  of 
arms  of  a  Communist  for  the  Soviet  Union  against  the  United  States 
of  America,  doesn't  it? 

Mr.  Townsend.  You  mean  a  Communist  would  tend  to  work  within 
this  country  against  the  country? 

Mr.  Doyle.  Yes. 


1532  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Townsend.  That's  possible,  yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Doesn't  your  testimony  go  to  that  point? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  it  would  be  very  difficult  for  a  man  openly 
to  support  the  Soviet  Union  in  a  Avar  when  the  Soviet  Union  is  not 
here.  What  I  mean  to  say  is  if  they  should  attack  and  overcome  this 
country  it  might  be  a  little  simpler  for  a  person  to  join  the  Soviet 
forces. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  stated,  "It  became  clear  to  me  that  now  that  the 
war  was  over  the  Soviet  Union  and  the  United  States  were  no  longer 
allies  and  the  party  line  changed.''  That  may  not  be  the  exact  word- 
ing of  it,  but  it  is  the  substance  of  it.    What  did  you  mean  by  that  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  meant  that  when  the  war  was  over  the  Soviet 
Union  no  longer  needed  the  United  States  as  an  ally.  The  Soviet 
Union  now  was  going  on  its  own.  I  think  it  had  started  the  process 
of  world  conquest  and  would  be  very  difficult  to  do  in  alliance  with  a 
democracy. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  stated  in  substance  that  "some  of  us  felt  it  was 
not  an  American  party.  Others  felt  that  it  was.  Sidney  Benson  was 
the  functionary  called  in  to  defeat  those  of  us  who  held  this,  what 
they  considered  false  position.  Anti-Soviet  position  it  was  called,  and 
Mr.  Benson  hammered  us  over  the  head  for  a  whole  evening,  and  I 
didn't  see  him  again  at  any  party  meeting."  What  was  the  basis 
of  that  statement  by  you  ?  Do  I  understand  that  Benson,  the  Com- 
munist leader  at  this  meeting,  was  advocating  that  you  take  the  posi- 
tion of  the  Soviet  Union  against  the  position  of  the  United  States 
of  America? 

Mr.  Townsend.  He  was  advocating  that  we  follow  the  party  line 
and  that  we  have  no  argument  with  it. 

Mr.  Doyle.  The  party  line  was 

Mr.  Townsend.  The  party  line  is  always  the  line  of  the  Soviet 
Union. 

Mr.  Doyle.  In  other  words,  you  couldn't  debate  and  discuss  and 
have  any  difference  of  opinion  with  the  party  line  as  given  to  you 
from  the  top? 

Mr.  Townsend.  There  was  no  discussion  within  the  party  of  any 
possible,  let  me  say,  wrong  within  the  Soviet  Union. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  will  ask  you  this  question.  You  referred  to  the 
Lincoln  Book  Shop  and  the  Progressive  Book  Shop  in  Los  Angeles. 
Did  you  have  knowledge  personally,  or  was  it  your  belief  that  these 
book  shops  were  actively  supported  by  and  part  and  parcel  of  the 
Communist  program  in  this  country? 

Mr.  Townsend.  It  was  my  firm  belief  that  the  Lincoln  Book  Shop 
was  set  up  by  the  Communist  Party  in  town,  yes. 

(At  this  point  Representative  Donald  L.  Jackson  left  the  hearing 
room.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  How  about  the  Progressive  Book  Shop? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  had  no  contact  with  that  shop,  so  I  don't  know. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  stated,  "We  were  all  directed  to  work  in  mass  or- 
ganizations, we  were  asked  to  work  in  other  organizations."  You 
didn't  state  at  that  time  what  you  did  in  other  organizations  in  any 
detail.  What  did  you  do  in  any  other  organizations  following 
your 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1533 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  did  state  that  I,  as  a  member  of  the  Screen 
Writers'  Guild,  worked  to  get  myself  on  the  board  of  the  guild.  That 
was  considered  my  mass  organization. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Why  would  you  want  to  work  to  get  yourself  on  the 
board? 

Mr.  TowNSEND.  Because  it  was  felt  by  the  party  that  if  a  number 
of  Communists  were  on  the  board  they  might  be  able  to  direct  the 
thinking  of  the  guild.     This  they  never  accomplished,  I  might  say. 

Mr.  Doyle.  By  directing  the  thinking  of  the  guild,  that  would  lead, 
would  it  not,  logically,  or  am  I  in  error,  at  least  to  indirect  control  of 
the  thinking  of  men  that  were  writing  screen  scenarios  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Indirectly,  yes ;  but  again  I  must  say  there  never 
was  any  control  by  the  Communist  Party  of  either  the  Screen  Writers' 
Guild  or  the  content  of  films.  I  would  like,  if  I  may,  at  this  point 
to  disagree  with  yesterday's  witness,  Mr.  Ashe.  I  believe  he  said  that 
he  detected,  as  an  expert,  several  instances  of  Communist  propaganda 
in  American  films.  I  am  not  quoting  him  directly,  but  this  is  as  I 
recall  it.  He  was,  to  my  knowledge,  not  in  the  motion-picture  in- 
dustry. I  suppose  I  can  call  myself  an  expert,  too.  I  am  at  least  in 
the  motion-picture  industry,  and  I  don't  know  of  any  Communist 
propaganda  in  motion  pictures.  I  think  he  referred  to  the  motion 
picture,  Blockade. 

Now,  it  seems  to  me  that  at  the  time  Blockade  was  made  the  ma- 
jority of  the  people  in  this  country  were  sympathetic  to  the  Loyalists 
in  Spain,  so  that  the  content,  in  my  opinion,  couldn't  be  considered 
propaganda  at  the  time  unless,  of  course,  it  suited  their  purpose  at 
the  moment. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  think  Mr.  Ashe's  active  membership  in  the  party  was 
prior  to  yours  by  several  years,  wasn't  it  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  it  was. 

Mr.  D:>yle.  And  prior  to  the  time  you  became,  claimingly,  an  ex- 
pert ;  isn't  that  true  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  So  Mr.  Ashe  might  well  have  had  information  that  you 
never  heard  of? 

Mr.  Townsend.  This  is  possible.  I  don't  recall  that  he  brought  it 
put  in  testimony. 

Mr.  Doyle.  No;  but  there  is  a  difference  of  many  years  there  be- 
tween your  experience  and  his  experience  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  of  course. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Now,  1  am  not  intending  to  argue  with  you,  but  I  am 
interested  in  again  asking  you  why  the  Communist  Party  directive 
would  dictate  to  you  that  you  should  get  on  the  board  of  the  Screen 
Writers'  Guild  if  your  membership  in  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  as 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  taking  directives  from  the  Com- 
munist Party,  was  not  intended  to  influence 

Mr.  Townsend.  Oh,  I  must  say  I  didn't  mean  to  imply  that  it 
wasn't.    Certainly  it  was  intended  to  influence. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  see.    Influence  what  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Influence  the  guild,  how  the  guild  was  conducted; 
possibly  to  gain  control  of  the  guild  would  be  the  goal. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Why  would  they  want  to  gain  control  of  the  guild  ? 


1534  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Townsend.  Because  the  guild  is  an  important  guild  in  the 
picture  industry.  If  they  gained  control  of  one,  they  might  have  a 
better  chance  of  gaining  control  of  another,  I  would  think. 

Mr.  Doyle.  The  members  of  the  guild  were  all  screen  writers? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Assuming  that  all  members  of  the  board  of  directors  in 
control  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  were  all  Communists,  at  least 
in  that  indirect  manner  there  would  be  control — in  that  manner — of 
the  screen  writers? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Of  the  writer,  himself,  yes.  They  would  still  have 
no  direct  control  over  the  content  of  film. 

Mr.  Doyle.  But  they  would  have  direct  control  over  every  member 
of  the  board  of  directors  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes ;  that  is  true. 

Mr.  Doyle.  That  goes  to  your  thinking  as  well  as  your  opinion, 
doesn't  it  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  stated  that  in  1947  they  destroyed  entirely  the  Com- 
munist influence  completely  in  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild.  How 
was  that  destroyed  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  As  I  recall  it,  a  group  of  the  majority  of  the  guild 
membership  formed  an  organization  which  met  often,  campaigned, 
set  up  a  slate  of  candidates  to  oppose  the  slate  on  which  there  may 
have  been  Communists.  They  electioneered,  they  campaigned.  Their 
slate  won  in  1947  and,  to  my  knowledge,  there  may  have  been  one  or 
two  Communists  on  the  board  since  then,  not  elected,  but  brought 
up  by  virtue  of  absence  of  elected  members.  There  may  have  been 
no  Communists  on  the  board  since  then. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What,  in  your  judgment,  is  the  motivating  factor  for 
men  and  women,  men  like  yourself  with  intelligence  and  training,  to 
unite  with  the  Communist  Party  when  you  learn  to  know  that  you  are 
instructed  to  follow  the  Soviet  Communist  line  instead  of  continuing 
your  allegiance  to  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States?  What  is 
the  motivating  factor  ?    What  makes  you  do  it  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  found,  in  my  case,  I  didn't  know  or  realize  that 
the  party  was  following  the  Soviet  line  until  I  had  been  in  it  a  while. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  know,  but  your  printed  constitution  and  bylaws  as 
produced  yesterday  showTed  very  clearly  that  there  was  no  pledge  of 
allegiance  to  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States.  Did  you  get 
a  chance  to  read  that  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  These  were  not  generally  distributed  to  the  party 
membership  at  the  time  I  went  in. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Do  you  know  of  any  pledge  or  any  commitment  in  any 
of  the  printed  literature  of  the  Communist  Party  of  the  United  States 
which  permits  the  Communist  to  uphold  the  Constitution  of  the 
United  States? 

Mr.  Townsend.  That  permits  a 

Mr.  Doyle.  That  commits,  that  pledges  the  Communist  to  uphold 
the  Constitution  of  the  United  States. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  don't  know  of  such. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Do  you  know  where  I  might  find  one,  if  such  exists?  I 
haven't  been  able  to  find  one  yet. 

Mr.  Townsend.  No ;  I  do  not. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1535 

Mr.  Doyle.  You,  in  your  closing  remark,  which  was  very  splendid, 
as  all  of  it  was,  used  this  language,  ''We  must  do  all  we  can  to  expose 
the  enemy  within  our  country."  What  can  we  do,  in  your  judgment, 
to  expose  the  enemy?  When  I  say  the  enemy,  Mr.  Townsend,  I  am 
referring  to  people  dedicated  to  subversive  misconduct  and  to  the 
subversion  and  the  destruction  of  our  American  way  of  life  under 
our  constitutional  form  of  government.  I  am  not  referring  to  people 
who  might  differ  with  you  or  me  politically.  They  have  a  right  to 
those  thoughts,  but  I  am  referring  in  this  question  to  people  known 
to  you  by  personal  action  and  by  mass  action,  determined  to  subvert, 
to  overthrow,  to  overturn  our  Government,  if  necessary,  to  carry  out 
the  Soviet  program.  What  shall  we  do  to  help  expose  that  kind  of 
people  ?  We  can't  ship  them  to  Russia,  all  of  them,  although  we  ought 
to  be  able  to  get  rid  of  them,  shouldn't  we,  in  some  way? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  it  seems  to  me  this  matter  is  more  in  the  area 
of  the  committee  than  it  is  in  my  own.  I  think  somehow  the  Com- 
munist Party  should  be  made  to  show  its  face  to  the  American  people, 
which  it  hasn't  done  so  far.  How  that  can  be  accomplished,  again, 
that  I  don't  know.    That  is  what  you  gentlemen 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  think  you  realize,  Mr.  Townsend,  from  what  you  said, 
because  you  complimented  this  committee  on  what  it  tried  to  ac- 
complish and  what  it  is  trying  to  accomplish — I  think  you  realize — I 
hope  you  do — that  this  committee  realizes  that  while  our  assignment, 
as  I  read  yesterday,  is  to  investigate  in  the  United  States  subversive 
and  un-American  propaganda  that  is  instigated  from  foreign  coun- 
tries or  within  our  own  country,  nevertheless  we  are  diligently  try- 
ing, consciously  trying  and  endeavoring  to  do  that  difficult  task  within 
the  framework  of  our  Constitution,  and  I  just  wish  to  say  this  to  you, 
that  I  hoped  that  your  example  in  coming  clean  and  cooperating  to 
the  maximum  with  us,  even  though  it  must  be  embarrassing  and  even 
though  I  know  that  it  will  eliminate  you  from  some  of  your  former 
contacts  and  friends,  I  want  to  compliment  you  on  doing  that  and, 
as  I  say,  I  hope,  as  a  member  of  this  committee,  as  a  citizen  of  the 
State  of  California  that  all  present  members  or  recent  members  of  the 
Communist  Party  that  place  our  country,  the  United  States  of  Amer- 
ica, ahead  of  Soviet  Russia  will  come  clean,  also,  and  that  is  without 
any  exceptions.  I  want  to  urge  every  person  in  California  that  is 
patriotic  enough  to  acknowledge  his  American  citizenship  in  prefer- 
ence to  Soviet  communism  to  come  out  clean  and  be  man  and  woman 
enough  to  face  up  and  be  willing  to  lose  some  personal  friendship 

(At  this  point  Representative  Francis  E.  Walter  left  the  hearing 
room. ) 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  hope  my  testimony  might  help  some  of  these  peo- 
ple to  do  that. 

Mr.  Doyee.  Well,  I  hope  it  does.  I  want  to  publicly  urge  any  man 
or  woman  that  has  got  the  guts  and  the  gumption  to  fight  for  the 
United  States  of  American  to  come  up  and  come  clean  and  do  it  while 
this  committee  is  here  in  Los  Angeles.     Thank  you  very  much. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Townsend,  I  will  join  with  the  rest  of  the  mem- 
bers of  the  committee  in  thanking  you  for  your  statement,  You  have 
added  a  great  deal  to  the  knowledge  already  possessed  by  the  com- 


1536  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

niittee.  Did  you  find  at  any  time  during  your  membership  in  the 
Communist  Party,  that  your  career  was  in  any  way  facilitated  through 
any  connections  you  had  in  the  Communist  Party  in  the  studios  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  No;  I  have  no  recollection  at  any  time  where  I 
might  have  obtained  a  position,  a  job,  a  screen-writing  job  because  I 
was  a  Communist.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  I  would  say  the  reverse  might 
be  true.  During  the  past  3  years,  since  I  have  been  out  of  the  party, 
I  have  found  difficulty  obtaining  employment  in  the  film  industry. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  have  found  difficulty  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  I  have. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Since  you  left  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  experienced  difficulty  in  finding  employment? 

Mr.  Townsend.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Jackson.  That  was  the  import  of  my  question.  There  have 
been  charges  that  in  some  instances,  at  least,  the  Communists,  through 
their  interlocking  connections  and  associations,  were  able  to  obtain 
or  conversely  deny  employment  to  their  favorites  or  their  enemies. 

Mr.  Townsend.  This  may  be  true.  I  am  saying,  in  my  own  instance,. 
I  don't  recall  any  example  of  that. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Did  you  say  who  your  agent  was  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  My  agent  is  the  William  Morris  Agency. 

Mr.  Jackson.  William  Morris  Agency? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  touched  on  the  matter  of  the  Duclos  letter  and 
the  abrupt  about-face  in  party  line  that  the  letter  caused  at  that  time. 
Do  you  also  have  knowledge  of  the  Albert  Maltz  articles? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Would  you  explain  the  nature  of  the  Maltz  affair 
very  briefly  \ 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  as  I  recall  it  now,  Mr.  Maltz  wrote  an  article 
which  appeared  in  the  New  Masses,  asking  for  more  freedom  for  left- 
wing  writers  and  speaking  of  art  for  art's  sake,  and  also  that  the  Com- 
munists— the  left  wing  should  not  blacklist  or  denounce  non-left-wing 
writers,  people  who  had  once  been  left  wing  and  had  left. 

Mr.  Jackson.  What  reception  was  accorded  that  article  upon  its 
appearance  by  the  Communists  and  fellow  travelers  in  the  writing 
profession  \ 

Mr.  Townsend.  The  immediate  reception  locally  was  very  good. 
Then  the  national  party  headquarters  evidently  felt  that  this  was  an 
error  and  a  man,  I  believe,  named  Samuel  Sillen  was  sent  out  here  to 
correct  this  error,  and  it  evidently  was  corrected  because  Mr.  Maltz 
later  wrote  another  article  for  the  same  magazine,  the  New  Masses, 
recanting. 

Mr.  Jackson.  That  was  indicative,  was  it  not,  of  the  measure  of 
independent  thought  permitted  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  would  say  so;  yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Are  you  presently  a  member  of  the  Screen  Writers' 
Guild? 

.Mr.  Townsend.  Yes,  I  am. 

Mr.  Jackson.  What  can  you  tell  the  committee  of  the  existence  of 
two  factions  known,  respectively,  as  the  all-guild  committee  and  the 
progressive  caucus  within  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild? 


COMMUX'ISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE'    INDUSTRY  1537 

Mr.  Townsend.  These  were  the  groups  I  had  reference  to  in  answer- 
ing one  of  Mr.  Doyle's  questions.  The  all-guild  committee,  I  believe, 
was  the  organization  formed  in  1917  by  the  majority  of  the  member- 
ship of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  to  defeat  the  other  factions,  the 

Mr.  Jackson.  Progressive  caucus  \ 

Mr.  Townsend.  The  progressive  caucus,  yes;  and  it  succeeded,  as 
I  remember,  entirely. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Was  the  progressive  caucus  within  the  Screen  Writ- 
ers' Guild  an  organization  as  such  in  that  it  had  a  chairman  and 
officers  of  the  caucus  within  the  guild  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I'm  sorry,  I  can't  remember  that,  definitely.  I 
know  that  it  was  composed  not  only  of  just  Communists.  There  were 
others  in  it. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Well,  without  respect  to  the  membership  or  nonmem- 
bership  of  those  who  were  particularly  active  in  the  progressive  cau- 
cus, who  took  the  leading  parts  in  the  caucus,  itself,  within  the  guild  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Again,  I  am  quite  sure  it  was  John  Howard  Law- 
son. 

Mr.  Jackson.  In  your  opinion  and  in  light  of  your  own  experience 
out  of  your  own  observations,  is  it  your  feeling  that  the  Communist 
Party  should  be  outlawed  as  such ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Again,  I  think  that  is  more  in  the  area  of  the  com- 
mittee. I  don't  know,  frankly;  I  don't  know  whether  outlawing  the 
party  and  sending  it  underground  will  only  bring  it  up  somewhere 
else  in  another  form.  As  I  said  to  Mr.  Doyle,  I  think  if  there  wTas  a 
way  to  make  the  party  show  its  face  to  the  American  people,  this 
might  be  more  effective.    I  don't  know. 

Sir.  Jackson.  What  proportion — out  of  your  experience,  again — 
what  proportion  of  the  party  is  above  ground  and  what  part  is  below 
ground  at  the  present  time  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  have  no  knowledge  of  that  because  I  have  had  no 
contact  along  those  lines. 

Mr.  Jackson.  As  of  the  period  during  which  you  held  membership 
in  the  Communist  Party,  what  proportion  of  its  activities  were  above 
ground  and  in  no  way  secret? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  very  little,  I  would  think.  I  can't  think 
of 

Mr.  Jackson.  Very  little  above  ground? 

Air.  Townsend.  Yes.  I  can't  think  of  any  activity,  offhand.  You 
mean  in  which  the  Communist  called  himself  a  Communist? 

Mr.  Jackson.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  can't  think  of  any  such  thing. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Isn't  the  distinguishing  feature  as  between  above 
ground  and  underground  whether  or  not  the  activities  are  carried  on 
in  the  open  or  are  carried  on  in  a  cloak-and-dagger  atmosphere  of  se- 
crecy and  conspiracy  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes ;  I  see  what  you  mean. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Did  you  have  any  knowledge  while  you  were  a  mem- 
ber of  the  various  groups  or  cells  to  which;  you  were  attached  of  par- 
allel work  being  done  in  the  way  of  the  transmittal  of  information 
through  the  underground,  of  espionage,  of  courier  services,  as  dis- 
tinguished from  the  cell  organization  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  No  ;  I  had  no  knowledge  of  that. 


1538  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Jackson.  Do  you  feel  that  the  average  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  is  permitted  to  have  any  knowledge  of  that  phase  of 
party  activity? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  think  not. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  believe  you  said  you  were  financial  director  or  agent 
of  the  branch  to  which  you  were  assigned? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  For  how  long  a  period  did  you  serve  in  that  capacity  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  would  guess  about  6  months. 

Mr.  Jackson.  How  many  individuals  were  you  responsible  for  in 
the  matter  of  the  collection  of  moneys? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Oh,  probably  12. 

Mr.  Jackson.  How  often  did  you  make  your  collections? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Quarterly. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Quarterly? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Quarterly. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Would  you  care  to  give  the  committee  an  estimate 
of  the  amount  of  money  that  passed  through  your  hands  during  the 
period  of  time  you  were  financial  director  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  I  mentioned  this  morning  in  answer  to  one 
of  Mr.  Tavenner's  questions  that  during  the  time  I  was  financial  di- 
rector most  of  the  high-salaried  screen  writers  at  that  time  were  not 
employed  so  that  there  was  never  very  much  money  passed  through 
my  hands.  I  would  say  never  more  than  $200  a  quarter.  It  may  be 
$250.     It  is  roughly  around  that  figure. 

Mr.  Jackson.  How  many  of  the  men  you  have  named  as  being  Com- 
munists to  your  personal  knowledge  are  still  members  in  good  stand- 
ing and  in  regular  attendance  at  the  Screen  Writers*  Guild  ( 

Mr.  Townsend.  Members  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Members  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Well,  I  suppose  all  of  them  are.  Any  screen  writer 
is  a  member  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  unless  he  does  not  pay  dues, 
unless  for  a  certain  period  of  time  he  has  no  screen  credits,  and  I  think 
then  he  becomes  an  associate  member. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Have  you  attended  the  meetings  of  the  Screen 
Writers'  Guild  recently? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  am  sure  I  must  have,  yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Were  any  of  the  individuals  you  have  mentioned  as 
being  members  of  the  Communist  Party  present  at  the  last  meeting 
you  attended? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Again  I  can't  be  sure.  I  would  imagine  so.  I 
don't  remember  what  the  date  was  of  the  last  meeting  I  attended.  I 
probably  did  not  attend  the  last  couple  of  meetings  because  I  live  quite 
a  ways  away  from  town  and  my  wife  was  having  a  difficult  time  with 
childbirth.     So  for  the  last  two  meetings  I  think  I  didn't  attend. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Again  out  of  your  personal  experience  and  your 
knowledge  of  the  situation  here  in  Los  Angeles,  would  you  say  what 
organization  is  today  carrying  the  brunt  of  the  burden  so  far  as 
Communist  and  Communist-front  activities  are  concerned? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  would  say  it  is  the  Arts,  Sciences,  and  Profes- 
sions Council. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Is  that  the  Hollywood  Council  of  Arts,  Sciences, 
and  Professions? 
Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1539 

Mr.  Jackson.  Did  you  personally  ever  write  or  attempt  to  write 
into  any  script  any  material  which  had  been  dictated  to  you  by  the 
Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  No ;  I  did  not. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Do  you  have  knowledge  of  any  writer  having  done 

so? 

Mr.  Townsend.  No,  sir ;  I  haven't. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Did  you  take  any  part  in  the  so-called  Writers' 
Mobilization  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  What  was  the  nature  of  the  work  that  you  did  for 
the  mobilization? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  served  on,  I  believe,  a  panel  on  pan-American 
affairs. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Was  this  work  clone  at  the  request  of  the  Government  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  believe  so ;  yes.  I  think  all  the  Screen  Writers' 
Guild  was  involved. 

Mr.  Jackson.  But  you  did  some  work  on  behalf  of  the  Writers' 
Mobilization  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  served  on  the  mobilization. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Was  this  during  the  time  you  were  a  member  of 
the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  If  you  can  bring  me  up  on  the  date.  Was  that 
in  1943? 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  believe  it  was  1943,  or  so  I  am  advised  by  counsel. 

Mr.  Townsend.  In  that  case  I  was  a  member  of  the  party  at  that 
time. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  believe  you  stated  that  out  of  the  membership  of 
the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  at  the  time  the  Communist  drive  was  at 
its  peak  there  were  approximately  50  members  of  the  Screen  Writers' 
Guild  who  were  members  of  the  Communist  Party;  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  What  was  the  total  membership  of  the  Screen  Writ- 
ers' Guild  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  think  at  that  time  there  were  roughly  between  900 
and  1,000  members  in  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Again,  Mr.  Townsend.  I  will  add  my  thanks  to  the 
other  members  of  the  committee.  I  think  you  have  made  a  consider- 
able contribution. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter. 

Mr.  Potter.  Mr.  Townsend,  in  your  testimony  this  morning  you 
mentioned  your  activities  in  three  fractions  of  mass  organizations  in 
which  you  raised  money  or  to  which  you  contributed  money,  I  belie  v 
was  your  testimony.    I  don  t-  recall  offhand  the  three  mass  organiza- 
tions that  you  mentioned.    Do  you  have  any  recollection? 

Mr.  Townsend.  One  was  the  Council  of  American-Soviet  Friend- 
ship; one  was  the  People's  Educational  Association,  I  believe  was  the 
title ;  and  one  was  the  Hollywood  Independent  Democratic  Committee, 
which  later,  I  believe,  became  the  Arts,  Sciences,  and  Professions 
Council. 

Mr.  Potter.  Was  a  fraction  in  each  one  of  the  organizations  men- 
tioned strong  enough  in  order  to  control  the  mass  organization? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  would  say  "Yes."  I  was  not  in  a  fraction  of 
those  organizations;  I  contributed  to  them. 


81595 — ."l — pt.  4 9 


1540  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Potter.  You  contributed  to  them  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes.     My  opinion  would  be  that- 


Mr.  Potter.  That  they  controlled  the  mass  organization? 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  My  opinion  would  be  "Yes." 

Mr.  Potter.  You  mentioned  in  your  direct  testimony  there  were 
50  members,  or  50  Communists,  in  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild.  You 
failed  to  mention  what  the  size  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  was  as  a 
Whole. 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  Mr.  Jackson.  I  believe,  just  asked  that  question.  I 
told  him  that  the  membership,  I  believed,  at  that  time  was  between 
900  and  1,000. 

Mr.  Potter.  And  that  was  the  highest  percentage  of  membership 
of  the  Communist  Party  in  the  guild  ( 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  To  my  knowledge;  yes.  I  think  that  was  the  peak 
of  Communist  membership. 

Mr.  Potter.  It  is  interesting,  Mr.  Townsend,  that  the  Communist 
Party  members  are  today  great  advocates  of  peace,  and  I  think  that 
probably  you  were  in  the  party  during  the  Hitler-Stalin  pact. 

Mr.  Towxsend.  No ;  I  wasn't, 

Mr.  Potter.  That  was  before  your  time  in  the  party.  At  that  time 
they  were  very  much  interested  in  peace;  and  then,  with  the  attack 
upon  Russia  by  Germany,  overnight  they  became  warmongers;  they 
were  for  opening  up  the  second  front. 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Potter.  At  the  conclusion  and  during  the  military  alliance  be- 
tween the  Soviet  Union  and  the  United  States,  during  World  War  II, 
there  was  a  great  effort  on  the  part  of  the  Communist  Party  in  the 
United  States  to  aid  in  prosecuting  the  war  effort,  and  because  of  that 
effort  many  people  considered  that  their  aims  were  much  more  to  the 
aims  of  our  own  Government,  But  then,  at  the  conclusion  of  World 
War  II,  what  happened?  The  Soviet  Union,  the  Communist  Party 
members  then  received  their  instructions  to  put  on  the  so-called  peace 
drive  and  become  very  militant,  So  the  clamor  for  peace  today  is  a 
political  expediency  which  the  Communist  Party  is  trying  to  impress 
the  American  people  that  they,  and  they  alone,  are  interested  in  peace. 

Mr.  Towxsend.  Sure. 

Mr.  Potter.  I  dare  say  that  every  American  citizen  today  would 
like  peace,  and  there  are  many  of  us,  and  I  would  say  the  vast  major- 
ity of  the  American  people  are  just  as  opposed  to  fascism  as  they  are 
to  communism.  And  many  of  those  people  have  contributed  just  as 
much  to  the  defeat  of  fascism,  and  we  are  just  as  determined  to  defeat 
another  form  of  dictatorship  which  is  just  as  vicious,  and  that  is  of 
communism. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  think  we  could  use  right  now  a  great  rise  of  the 
anti-Fascist  spirit  we  had  a  few  years  ago  for  this  same  fight. 

Mr.  Potter.  I  am  curious  to  know  whether  you  are  familiar  with 
the  publication  entitled  "The  Communist  Party,  a  Manual  on  Organi- 
zation," which  was  written  by  J.  Peters  back  in  1935.  Now,  in  some 
Communist  organizations  this  has  served  as  more  or  less  of  a  Bible 
for  the  Communist  Party  members.    Are  you  familiar  with  that  \ 

Mr.  Towxsexd.  I  don't  believe  I  have  ever  seen  this  document. 

Mr.  Potter.  I  would  like  to  read  the  role  and  aim  of  the  Commu- 
nist Party  as  enunciated  in  their  own  manual,  and  you  will  see  if  this 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE'   INDUSTRY  1541 

was  the  aim  of  the  Communist  Party  when  you  were  a  member,  and 
I  quote  now  : 1 

As  the  leader  and  organizer  of  the  proletariat,  the  Communist  Party  of  the 
United  States  of  America  leads  the  working  class  in  the  fight  for  the  revolution- 
ary overthrow  of  capitalism,  for  the  establishment  of  the  dictatorship  of  the 
proletariat,  for  the  establishment  of  a  Socialist  Soviet  Republic  in  the  United 
States,  for  the  complete  abolition  of  classes,  for  the  establishment  of  socialism, 
the  first  stage  of  the  classless  Communist  society. 

The  aim  of  the  Communist  Party  as  enunciated  here,  would  you 
say  that  was  the  aim  as  you  experienced  it  in  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Townsend.  No ;  this  was  not  enunciated  to  me,  nor  most  of 
the  people  who  joined  the  party  out  here.  We  discovered  this  gradu- 
ally later. 

Mr.  Potter.  This  was  the  hidden  aim  that  didn't  come  out 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  would  say  so ;  yes.  When  I  went  into  the  party 
I  certainly  didn't  realize  this. 

Mr.  Potter.  Did  they  ever  mention  to  you  your  responsibility  to 
defend  the  Soviet  Union? 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  don't  recall  if  that  ever  came  up ;  no. 

Mr.  Potter.  Also  in  this  same  manual  there  is  a  note  that  Browder 
gave  to  2,000  workers  in  New  York,  and  this  is  a  pledge  which  they 
took.  In  the  pledge  there  is  one  sentence  which  I  will  read,  and  I 
quote : 

I  pledge  myself  to  rally  the  masses  to  defend  the  Soviet  Union,  the  land  of 
victorious  socialism. 

It  says  nothing  about  defending  the  United  States  of  America. 

Mr.  Townsend.  I  don't  hear  that  in  there;  no.  You  are  not  con- 
sciously leaving  it  out,  I  suppose  ? 

Mr.  Potter.  No.  It  is  not  in  here.  So  I  say  I  am  wondering  if, 
particularly  during  the  period  of  the  so-called  wartime  alliance  be- 
tween the  Soviet  Union  and  the  United  States,  if  many  of  the  aims 
of  the  Communist  Party,  such  as  are  basic  party  policy,  weren't  hidden 
from  the  average  Communist  member. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Yes ;  indeed  they  were.    Certainly  they  were. 

Mr.  Potter.  It  is  also  interesting  to  note  that  when  you  were  dis- 
cussing a  while  ago,  I  believe  with  Mr.  Doyle,  the  so-called  lack  of 
freedom  of  discussion  in  the  Communist  Party,  that  here  is  a  para- 
graph from  this  same  manual  on  party  discussion  and  freedom  of 
criticism.    Let  me  read  you  this  paragraph,  and  I  quote: 

We  cannot  imagine  a  discussion,  for  example,  questioning  the  correctness  of 
the  leading  role  of  the  proletariat  in  the  revolution,  or  the  necessity  for  the  prole- 
tarian dictatorship.  We  do  not  question  the  theory  of  the  necessity  for  the  force- 
ful overthrow  of  capitalism.  We  do  not  question  the  correctness  of  the  revolu- 
tionary theory  of  the  class  struggle  laid  down  by  Marx,  Engels,  Lenin,  and  Stalin. 
We  do  not  question  the  counterrevolutionary  nature  of  Trotskyism. 

In  other  words,  you  can't  question  the  teachings  of  Marx  or  Engels 
or  Lenin  or  Stalin  in  your  party  circles  ? 

Mr.  Townsend.  That's  right.  I  would  say  that  this  leaves  very 
little  area  for  democratic  discussion;  wouldn't  you  ? 

Mr.  Potter.  I  would  say  it  would. 

Mr.  Townsend,  I  have  no  further  questions,  but  I  would  like  to 
compliment  you  on  your  presentation  here  today,  and  I  am  most 

1  See  appendix,  printed  in  a  separate  volume  for  complete  text  of  this  document. 


1542  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

pleased  that  your  studio  lias  seen  fit  to  aid  you  in  your  future  career, 
and  I  hope  that  your  career  will  be  long  and  successful. 

Mr.  Townsend.  Thank  you,  sir. 

(Representative  Donald  L.  Jackson  left  the  hearing  room.) 

Mr.  Wood.  It  has  been  said  that  to  make  a  mistake  and  to  make  an 
effort  to  rectify  it  requires  the  highest  degree  of  moral  courage.  I  am 
inclined  to  subscribe  to  that  doctrine.  I  don't  think  any  loyal  Amer- 
ican citizen  can  gainsay  the  fact  that  today  communism,  as  it  is  seen 
in  those  countries  that  are  practicing  it  today,  is  a  deadly  menace. 
The  American  Government  and  way  of  life  that  we  people  in  America 
have  known,  we  have  but  to  realize  that  we  are  today  engaged  in  a 
deadly  struggle  with  that  ideology.  It  has  already  taken  the  lives  of 
approximately  90,000  of  the  flower  of  American  manhood.  Daily 
your  boys  and  mine  are  being  subjected  to  the  loss  of  their  lives  and 
limbs  and  the  shedding  of  their  blood  for  the  sole  and  exclusive  pur- 
pose of  seeking  to  halt  the  inroads  and  aggression  of  this  powerful 
influence  that  is  abroad  in  this  land  of  ours. 

A  person  that  has  set  his  first  steps  on  the  pathway  that  leads  in 
the  wrong  direction  and  finds  he  has  made  a  mistake  and  turns  back 
and  rectifies  it  has  all  that  honesty  can  do  to  make  amends;  I  feel 
that  he  is  entitled  to  commendation  of  all  liberty-loving  American 
people.  I  commend  you  for  your  stand  in  coming  before  this  com- 
mittee and  giving  us  the  benefit  of  your  experience  and  your  knowledge 
concerning  this. 

Are  there  any  further  questions? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Is  there  any  reason  why  the  witness  should  not  be 
excused  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  It  is  so  ordered. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Dr.  Leo  Bigelman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Doctor,  would  you  hold  up  your  right  hand  and  be 
sworn?  Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  are  about  to 
give  this  subcommittee  shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth  and  nothing 
but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  am  going  to  ask  the  photographers  to  refrain  from 
taking  pictures  during  the  time  the  oath  is  being  administered. 

TESTIMONY  OP  DR.  LEO  BIGELMAN,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HIS 
COUNSEL,  ROBERT  W.  KENNY  AND  BEN  MARGOLIS 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  name,  please? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Leo  Bigelman,  M.  D. 

Mr.  Wood.  Dr.  Bigelman,  are  you  represented  by  counsel? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  counsel  please  identify  themselves  for  the  record? 

Mr.  Kenny.  Robert  Kenny  and  Ben  Margolis. 

Mr.  Wood.  Of  the  Los  Angeles  bar? 

Mr.  Kenny.  Correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Dr.  Bigelman,  when  and  where  were  you  born? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  was  born  in  Poland,  1896,  came  to  this  country 
in  1904  and  have  derivative  citizenship  and  am  an  enlisted  veteran  of 
the  First  World  War. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE!    INDUSTRY  1543 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  come  to  this  country  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  About  1904,  as  I  recall. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  to  the  committee,  please,  in  a  gen- 
eral way,  what  your  educational  training  has  been  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  shall  be  very  glad  to  do  that.  But  since  I  have 
it  in  my  mind  at  the  moment  I  would  like  to  either  introduce  or  read 
a  statement  which  I  have  prepared  for  this  committee. 

Mr.  Wood.  Very  well,  Doctor,  just  hand  it  to  me  and  I  will  submit 
it  for  the  record. 

Mr.  Bigelman.  I  was  graduated  in  the  elementary  and  high  schools 
of  the  city  of  Detroit,  Mich.,  had  my  premedical  training  there,  got  my 
medical  degree  at  what  is  now  the  Wayne  University  in  the  same  city, 
which  at  that  time  was  the  Detroit  College  of  Medicine  and  Surgery, 
and  that  was  followed  by  the  various  hospitals  and  postgraduate  work. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  have  you  engaged  in  the  practice  of  your 
profession? 

Mr.  Bigelman.  Well,  I  originally  was  a  resident  physician  in  the 
city  of  Detroit,  until  the  end  of  1921.    Since  1921,  in  California. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  in  California  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  I  am  going  to  answer  these  questions,  of  course, 
but  I  wonder  what  the  practice  of  medicine  has  to  do  with  the  investi- 
gation of  so-called  subversive  activities  in  Hollywood.  I  mean,  this 
seems  to  imply  that  a  patient  and  a  doctor's  politics  are  involved  here, 
or  are  they  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  assure  you  it  is  not  because  of  your  being  a  doctor 
that  has  occasioned  your  being  called  before  this  committee,  but  the 
committee  is  anxious  to  know  what  your  background  is. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  I  practiced  medicine  in  Los  Angeles  most  of 
the  time  but  I  was  in  San  Francisco  for  some  3  or  4  years  in  the  early 
twenties,  have  been  in  Los  Angeles,  I  think,  continuously  from  1928 
or  1929. 

(Kepresentative  Francis  E.  Walter  returned  to  the  hearing  room.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  phase  of  the  practice  of  medicine  are  you 
engaged  in  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  mostly  general  practice,  except  that  I  have 
qualified  in  what  is  called  internal  medicine,  as  I  handle  diagnostic 
problems.  But  I  might  say  that  if  you  want  to  ask  me  about  any 
phase  of  medicine  which  I  have  really  specialized  in,  I  think  that  I 
have  specialized  in  rather  the  relationship  of  medicine  to  living.  I 
have  been  interested  in  people  getting  the  broadest  and  best  medical 
care.  I  have  been  particularly  interested  in  medicine  for  the  poorer 
section  of  our  population.  I  have  been  especially  interested  in  seeing 
that  people  of  racial  minorities  and  especially  Negro  people  were  not 
discriminated  against  and  consequently  my  practice  has  been  directed 
toward  the  social  as  well  as  the  physical  ability  of  my  patients. 

(Representative  Charles  E.  Potter  left  the  hearing  room.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  your  full  name,  sir,  please  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Yes,  certainly.     B-i-g-e-1-m-a-n. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Your  first  name  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Leo. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  business  address  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  5503  South  Broadway.  Does  that  mean  that  pa- 
tients are  instructed  to  come  or  not  come  to  me  at  that  address  ? 


1544  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  There  is  another  Dr.  Bigelman  in  the  city,  is  there 
not? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  see. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  that  right  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  I  am  sure  that  there  is  another  one.  He 
spells  his  name  differently. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  does  he  spell  his  name  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  If  I  am  not  mistaken,  he  spells  it  B-e-i-g-e-1-m-a-n. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  his  first  name  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  That  I  don't  know.     His  initial  is  M. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  there  is  a  question,  don't  you  see,  of  identi- 
fication. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  In  justice  to  him  and  in  justice  to  myself,  too,  I 
would  say  that  clear  identification  would  be  desirable. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Dr.  Bigelman,  a  schedule  of  the  classes  for  the 
winter  of  1950  term  of  the  California  Labor  School  reflects  the 
name  of  a  Dr.  Leo  Bigelman  as  an  instructor.  Are  you  the  Dr. 
Bigelman  referred  to  as  an  instructor  in  that  school  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  you  are  raising  my  name  in  connection  with 
an  organization  which  I  have  heard  or  believe  has  been  labeled  either 
by  this  or  other  committees  as  on  the  subversive  list.  I  therefore 
must,  in  duty,  decline  on  the  grounds  it  might  possibly  tend  to  in- 
criminate me  and,  therefore,  invoke  the  privilege  of  the  fifth  amend- 
ment and  do  decline  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  at  any  time  been  president  of  the  board 
of  trustees  of  the  People's  Educational  Center  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  The  context 

Mr.  Tavener.  In  Los  Angeles. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  the  context  of  that  question  is  the  same  as 
the  previous  one.  I  really  feel  very  sincerely  and  very  strongly 
that  education  of  any  type  is  a  prerogative  of  our  people  but,  inas- 
much as  certain  types  of  education,  apparently,  does  not  meet  with 
the  approval  of  this  and  other  committees  and  is  proscribed,  I  again 
must  and  do  decline  to  answer  this  question  on  the  grounds  of  the 
fifth  amendment.  I  would  like  to  say  that  in  taking  the  ground  of 
the  fifth  amendment,  I  would  very  much  appreciate  introducing  the 
position  of  Justice  Black — Supreme  Court  Justice  Black,  on  the  fifth 
amendment  so  that  my  position  may  be  clear.  That  is,  that  it  is  neither 
an  admission  of  guilt  nor,  for  that  matter,  do  I  understand,  is  an  im- 
plication of  innocence.  Furthermore,  that  I  am  in  no  fear  of  con- 
viction of  anything,  but  there  is  possible  fear  or  jeopardy  of  prosecu- 
tion. Is  that  correct?  I  wanted  that  clearly  understood  when  I 
claimed  the  privilege  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  will  you  tell  the  committee,  if  you  state  that 
there  is  no  question  of  guilt  involved  in  your  answers,  how  you  be- 
came a  member — how  you  became  interested  in  these  various  or- 
ganizations which  I  have  mentioned?  Let  us  take,  first,  the  Cali- 
fornia Labor  School.  Will  you  tell  the  committee,  please,  the  circum- 
stances under  which  you  became  connected  with  that  institution. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  Mr.  Tavenner,  as  long  as  you  mention  the 
organization  or  organizations  which  I  have  already  declined  to  ans- 
wer, I  shall  continue  to  decline  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds.  It 
is  my  understanding  of  the  fifth  amendment  that  any  attempt  to 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1545 

inquire  as  to  the  reasons  for  claiming  it  are  not  permissible  and  that 
no  inference  can  be  drawn  from  claiming  it.  Further,  that  a  ques- 
tion inquiring  as  to  the  reasons  for  claiming  it 

Mr.  Wood.  Just  a  moment. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Are  not  pertinent. 

Mr.  Wood.  On  that  score,  I  would  like  to  disabuse  your  mind. 
There  isn't  any  such  law  as  that  in  the  amendment.  To  say  that 
to  answer  a  question  would  tend  to  incriminate  him  and  then  in  the 
next  breath  to  say  that  by  saying  that  he  doesn't  leave  any  inference 
that  he  is  guilty,  that  to  answer  the  question  would  incriminate  him 
is  double  talk;  just  plain  double  talk. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  That  is  exactly  why  I  wanted  Justice  Black's 
opinion  in  the  record. 

Mr.  Wood.  It  doesn't.  The  answer  would  incriminate  you  truth- 
fully or  it  wouldn't.    You  can't  blow  hot  and  cold  about  it. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Mr.  Wood,  that  is  why  I  wanted  to  read  from  Su- 
preme Court  Justice  Black's  opinion. 

Mr.  Wood.  The  committee  is  perfectly  familiar  with  the  minority 
opinion  of  Justice  Black.  You  don't  need  to  advise  this  committee 
about  it. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  am  not  trying  to  advise  this  committee.  I  am 
merely  trying  to  establish  my  own  understanding  of  that  section. 

Mr.  Wood.  The  answer  to  these  questions  would  incriminate  you 
or  they  wouldn't.    If  you  say  they  would 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  I 

Mr.  Wood.  Please  spare  us  from  the  unduly  inconsistent  statement 
that  they  wouldn't. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  sir 

Mr.  Wood.  And  then  say  they  would.  So  let's  just  confine  our 
answers  one  way  or  the  other  without  arguing  the  question,  will  you? 

Proceed,  counsel. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  think  inferences  may  be  personal  but  cannot  be 
official. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  like  to  ask  you  questions  relating  to  various 
other  organizations  which  the  staff  of  the  committee  understands  that 
you  were  connected  with  from  time  to  time. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  would  you  please  name  them  specifically.  I 
will  give  no  general  answers. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  propose  to.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  executive 
board  of  the  American  League  Against  War  and  Fascism? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  I  presume,  Mr.  Counsel,  you  are  aware  of 
the  fact  by  now  that  I  must  and  do  decline  to  answer  that  question 
on  previously  stated  grounds. 

Mr.  Wood.  Do  you  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  said  I  must  and  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  All  right. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  You  also  know,  of  course,  that  the  organization 
referred  to  at  the  time  it  existed  was  considered  one  of  the  most  pa- 
triotic organizations  in  the  country. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  were  you  connected  with  it  during  that  period 
of  time  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  think  it  is  the  same  question,  and  I  decline  to 
answer. 


1546  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  you  arc  attempting  to  explain  it.  I  want  to 
give  you  the  opportunity  to  explain  it  fully. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  anything  else  you  desire  to  say  about  your 
affiliation  with  that  organization? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  At  the  moment,  that  is  all  the  opinion  I  wish  to 
state. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  if  it  is  a  patriotic  organization  and  was  at  the 
time  you  may  have  been  a  member  of  it,  what  is  your  reason  for 
refusing  to  so  state  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  sir,  under  other  conditions  than  in  this  hearing 
room  I  probably  would  have  no  hesitation  in  so  stating,  but  when  an 
organization  which  did  patriotic  service  is  labeled  subversive  and  is 
on  the  list  of  the  subversive  activities  committee  or  the  House  Un- 
American  Activities  Committee,  then  I  am  convinced  in  my  own 
opinion  that  an  answer  to  that  question  might  tend  to  incriminate 
me,  and,  therefore,  I  invoke  the  privilege  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mi-.  Tavenner.  The  committee  has  information  that  you  in  the 
past  have  engaged  in  some  political  activities  connected  with  the 
Communist  Party.  I  am  referring  particularly  to  your  alleged  sup- 
port in  1936  of  Emil  Freed  as  candidate  of  the  Communist  Party  in 
an  election  in  the  fifty-seventh  assembly  district.  Were  you  con- 
nected in  any  way  with  the  campaign  or  the  support  of  Emil  Freed  on 
that  occasion? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  have  been  in  this  committee  room 
since-  yesterday  morning.  I  have  been  ashamed  to  be  here  during  part 
of  the  time  in  hearing  the  vindictive  hysteria  that  was  being  whipped 
up  about  this  party.  It  has  been  labeled  all  sorts  of  things.  There- 
fore, it  is  rather  obvious 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  referring  to  the  Communist  Party? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  that  is  what  you  said.  It  has  been  labeled 
various  things.  I,  therefore,  of  course,  must  and  do  decline  to  answer 
that  question  on  the  basis  of  the  fifth  amendment,  and  I  must  at  this 
point  also  say  that  because  of  that  any  questions  relating  to  the  Com- 
munist Party  or  in  which  that  term  is  used  will  undoubtedly,  in  my 
opinion,  call  for  a  declination  to  answer. 

Mr.  Wood.  You  can  save 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  have  been  sitting  in  this  room,  and  I  got  the  feeling 
that  if  anyone,  whether  he  was  or  was  not  or  by  any  implication  was 
associated  with  it  would  tomorrow  be  taken  out  and  lynched  or  some- 
thing. I  don't  know.  I  think  this  is  considerable  jeopardy.  I  de- 
cline to  answer  on  the  grounds  I  have  stated. 

Mr.  Wood.  Doctor,  it  will  save  a  lot  of  time,  of  which  you  may  not 
have  too  much  to  spare — certainly  we  haven't — if,  without  a  lecture  in 
this  loom,  you  would  simply  answer  the  questions.  We  would  appre- 
ciate that  also  because  the  committee  isn't  concerned  about  your  opinion 
of  the  committee  or  its  work. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  sir,  it  has  been  my  opinion.  If  it  weren't  for 
my  opinions  I  wouldn't  be  here,  and  when  I  think 

Mr.  Wood.  I  am  talking  about  your  opinion  of  this  committee  or  its 
work. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  have  not  stated  any  opinion  of  this  committee  yet, 
unless  the  committee  wishes  me  to  state  my  opinion  of  it. 


COMMUNISM    EST    MOTION-PICTURE'    INDUSTRY  1547 

Mr.  Wood.  That  is  all  you  have  been  doing-  for  the  past  5  minutes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  have  commented  on  the  statements  made  by 

various  persons  in  this  hearing  room  condemning  the  Communist 

Party.    Do  you  disagree  with  the  words  of  criticism  that  you  have 

in  your  mind  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  said  that  I  have  been  in  this  room 
and  have  heard  various  things  and  felt  a  certain  atmosphere.  I  de- 
cline to  answer  the  question,  the  previous  question,  because  of  the  pos- 
sible tendency  of  self-incrimination.  Now,  this  question,  in  my  opin- 
ion is  a  very  similar  question  or  perhaps  even  the  same  question. 
Therefore,  I  again  decline  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  is  informed,  Doctor,  that  you  were 
transferred  from  the  medical  branch  of  the  professional  section  of  the 
Los  Angeles  County  Communist  Party  to  the  North  Hollywood  Club 
of  the  Los  Angeles  County  Communist  Party  in  1943.  Were  you  ever 
a  member  of  either  of  those  clubs  or  sections  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  Mr.  Tavenner,  Mr.  Wood  a  few  moments  ago 
admonished  me  to  save  time  by  not  stating  my  opinions.  I  think  that 
is  repetition  of  questions  on  that  basis  on  which  I  am  going  to  decline 
and  do  decline  to  answer  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment  is 
really  a  waste  of  time.  I  have  stated  that  any  questions  with  respect 
to  the  Communist  Party,  because  of  the  possibility  that  it  might  in- 
criminate me,  I  will  invoke  the  privilege  of  the  fifth  amendment  and 
decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  attend,  in  the  summer  of  1945,  a  California 
state  convention  of  the  Communist  Political  Association  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  In  my  opinion,  it  is  the  same  question.  The  same 
declination  to  answer  on  the  same  ground. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  is  in  possession  of  information  that 
there  was  in  existence  what  was  known  as  a  community  club,  a  sub- 
section of  the  Hollywood  section  of  the  Los  Angeles  County  Commu- 
nist Party,  and  that  this  community  club  met  on  one  occasion  at  the 
home  of  Dorothy  Forrest  on  April  26,  1946,  and  that  you  were  in 
attendance  at  that  committee  and  suggested  how  that  section  of  the 
council  should  be  organized.  Were  you  a  member  of  that  club,  and 
did  you  attend  that  meeting  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Mr.  Tavenner,  isn't  it  obvious  that  this  is  another 
form  of  the  same  question  or  a  related  question?  I  therefore  refuse 
to  answer  this  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  American-Russian  Insti- 
tute of  Southern  California? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  It  is  a  peculiar  question.  American-Russian  Insti- 
tute, of  course,  implies  something  that  might  have  to  do  with  improv- 
ing relations  between  the  two  countries 

Mr.  Wood.  Irrespective  of  what  it  imports,  the  question  is,  Are  you 
a  member  of  it  ? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  I  ajn  trying  to  formulate  my  answer,  Mr. 
Wood,  and  I  have  to  do  a  little  thinking  before.  In  the  practice  of 
medicine  one  thinks  or  the  patient  doesn't  survive,  and  I  would  like 
to  apply  the  same  principle  here. 

Mr.  Wood.  If  you  want  time  to  concentrate,  we  would  be  glad  to 
give  you  the  time  to  do  it,  but  do  it  privately. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  I  am  concentrating  out  loud  for  the  benefit  of 
the  committee;  that  way  I  think  they  will  understand  my  answers 


1548  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

better;  and  I  have  heard  testimony  here  to  the  effect  that  people  are 
not  allowed  to  think  elsewhere.  I  would  hate  to  think  that  it  were 
true  in  this  room.  I  want  to  think  here,  and  if  I  want  to  think  out 
loud  I  should  be  permitted  to  think  out  loud.  I  have  a  recollection — 
I  could  easily  check,  of  course,  or  you  could  check  for  me — that  this 
organization  is  listed— — 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  interrupt  you  a  moment.  I  believe  I  have 
put  my  question  in  the  present  tense,  and  it  should  be  in  the  past  tense, 
of  course.  That  is,  whether  or  not  you  were  at  any  time  a  member  of 
that  organization. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  am  inclined  to  think  it  is  listed  in  your  list  of  sub- 
versive organizations,  so  labeled  by  this  committee.  I  therefore  re- 
fuse to  answer  this  question  on  the  previously  stated  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you,  on  July  7,  1945,  go  to  the  home  of  Albert 
Maltz  and  there  attend  a  meeting  of  the  Communist  Party  which  was 
called  for  the  purpose  of  discussing  the  Duclos  letter? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  previously 
stated  grounds,  although  I  would  like  to  say  at  this  time  that  I  have 
read  much  of  Mr.  Maltz'  works.  I  think  he  is  one  of  the  great  Ameri- 
can novelists  today  and  that  some  day  our  country  is  going  to  appreci- 
ate him  as,  perhaps,  it  will  appreciate  very  few  men  in  our  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  at  any  time  chairman  of  the  disciplinary 
committee  of  the  Los  Angeles  County  Communist  Party? 

Dr.  Bkjelman.  Now.  Mr.  Tavenner,  after  all  the  other  questions,  is 
this  one  you  think  I  am  not  going  to  refuse  to  answer?  I  refuse  to 
answer  this  question  on  the  grounds  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate 
me,  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  would  like  to  know  from  you 
whether  you  have  been  associated  in  any  particular  work  in  the  Com- 
munist Party  with  any  of  the  following-named  persons:  John  Howe; 
Ethel  Holmstock;  Dr.  Samuel  Marcus;  Joseph  Aidlin,  A-i-d-1-i-n; 
Mary  Aidlin;  Donald  Murray;  Norman  Byrne,  B-y-r-n-e. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  You  know,  defending  one's  rights  in  the  Constitu- 
tion becomes  a  repetitious  thing,  and  I  am  afraid  I  am  going  to  be 
repetitious.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  grounds  previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  it  true  that  you,  along  with  those  persons,  com- 
prised the  membership  commission  of  the  Communist  Party  in  Los 
Angeles  at  one  time  ? 

(At  this  time  Representative  Donald  L.  Jackson  returned  to  the 
room. ) 

Dr.  Bigelman.  This,  in  my  opinion,  is  another  version  of  the  same 
question.  I  therefore  again  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  pre- 
viously stated  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee,  Dr.  Bigelman,  is  in  possession  of 
information  that  in  1944  you  were  assigned  a  Communist  Political 
Association  card  No.  46157  and  that  in  1945,  card  No.  47411 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Well,  if  the  committee  is  in  possession  of  such  in- 
formation, an  answer  from  me  is  superfluous.  I  refuse  to  answer  this 
question  on  the  grounds  that  it  is  asking  me  to  testify  against  myself, 
and  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment  I  need  not  incriminate 
myself. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 
Dr.  Bigelman.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  same  grounds. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1549 

Mr.  Ta venner.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Wood. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter?  . 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Just  one  moment,  The  previous  witness,  Mr.  -Leo 
Townsend.  in  the  course  of  his  testimony  referred  to  you  as  having 
taught  a  class  in  Marxism  at  which  he  and  other  members  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  attended.     Is  that  a  truthful  statement? 

Dr.  Bigelman.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  of 
the  fifth  amendment,  although  I  think  that  within  the  construction 
of  the  Constitution  that  teaching  anything  probably  is  perfectly  all 
right.  I  presume  it  is  a  question  of  what  version  of  what  is  taught. 
I  do  refuse  to  answer  the  question,  however,  on  the  ground  of  the  fifth 
amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter? 

Mr.  Walter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle  ? 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  why  the  witness  shouldn't  be  excused  from 
further  attendance  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  So  ordered. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  May  I  ask  a  question  before  I  may  be  excused  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Witness  is  excused. 

Dr.  Bigelman.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Wood.  At  this  point  we  will  take  a  recess.  The  committee  will 
stand  in  recess  20  minutes. 

(A  short  recess  was  taken.) 

Mr.  Wood.  Who  do  you  have.  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mrs.  Helen  Slote  Levitt. 

Mr.  Wood.  Would  you  raise  your  right  hand  and  be  sworn.  Do  you 
solemnly  swear  the  evidence  you  give  this  subcommittee  to  be  the  truth, 
the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  represented  by  counsel  here  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  Yes ;  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  counsel  please  identify  themselves  for  the  record. 

Mr.  Kenny.  Robert  Kenny  and  Ben  Margolis,  of  Los  Angeles. 

TESTIMONY   OF  HELEN   SLOTE   LEVITT,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HER 
COUNSEL,  ROBERT  KENNY  AND  BEN  MARGOLIS 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  Mrs.  Helen  Slote  Levitt,  I  believe? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  Yes ;  I  am.     I  have  a  statement.     May  I  offer  it  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mrs.  Levitt? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  In  Brooklyn,  N.  Y.,  on  December  6,  1916. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  profession  or  work  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  am  a  housewife  and  a  mother.  Can  you  hear  me 
adequately  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Speak  up  a  little  bit  more,  please.  I  believe  the 
photographers  are  about  through. 

Mrs.  Levitt,  will  you  spell  your  name,  please? 


1550  COMMUNISM   IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mrs.  Levitt.  Helen,  H-e-1-e-n ;  Slote,  S-1-o-t-e ;  Levitt,  L-e-v-i-t-t. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  been  your  educational  training,  Mrs. 
Levitt? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  went  through  the  public  schools  of  Brooklyn,  Pub- 
lic School  161,  Erasmus  High  School,  and  Brooklyn  College,  from 
which  I  received  a  bachelor  of  arts  degree.  I  believe  that  was  in 
1938. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  been  in  Los  Angeles  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  think  we  came  out  here — I  don't  have  a  particularly 
good  memory  of  the  dates,  but  I  think  it  was  around  1939.  I  know 
it  was  the  end  of  March,  beginning  of  April,  because  I  was  on  the 
road  my  first  anniversary,  which  was  April  2,  1939. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  stated  you  were  on  the  road. 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  mean  traveling  across  the  country.  We  came  in  a 
car. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  enter  a  profession? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  worked  before  I  came  out  here. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  general  type  of  work  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  Well,  I  had  one  job  while  I  was  at  college.  I  did  work 
as  a  salesgirl  part  time,  but  when  I  completed  college,  in  fact  the  day 
after  my  last  exam 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  suggest  that  we  confine  it  to  the  period  of 
time  since  you  have  been  in  Los  Angeles. 

Mrs.  Levitt.  Fine.  Mostly — I  have  had  a  succession  of  secretarial 
and  administrative  type  jobs,  terminating,  it  must  have  been,  the 
fall  of  1945.  I  retired  to  raise  a  family.  I  haven't  been  gainfully 
employed  since  then. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Since  what  date? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  It  must  have  been  the  end  of  October  1945,  I  went 
east  to  meet  my  husband,  who  was  coming  back  from  overseas,  and 
after  that  I  had  two  children  and  haven't  worked.  1  have  two  children 
now. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  your  last  employment  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  It  was  a  secretarial  job  for  a  theatrical  group. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  theatrical  group? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  shall  have  to  decline,  or,  I'm  sorry,  I  decline  to 
answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  of  the  first  and  fifth  amend- 
ments, in  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  secretary  of  John  Garfield  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  the  testimony  of  Mr.  Garfield  before  the  Com- 
mittee on  Un-American  Activities,  on  April  23  of  this  year,  he  testified 
that  you  were  his  secretary. 

(Counsel  conferred  with  the  witness.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  the  light  of  that  statement  by  Mr.  Garfield  are 
you  willing  to  tell  us  now  whether  or  not  you  were  his  secretary  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  My  answer  stands,  if  you  don't  mind.  I  would  like 
to  keep  my  answer  as  it  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  ever  attend 

Mr.  Wood.  I  believe  your  answer  would  be  a  little  bit  more  audible 
if  you  could  sit  a  little  closer  to  the  microphone. 

Mrs.  Levitt.  Could  I  move  the  chair,  please? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Your  name  before  marriage  was  Helen  Slote,  was 
it  not? 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE'    INDUSTRY  1551 

Mrs.  Levitt.  That  is  correct.  Actually,  I  used  the  name  Helen 
Slote  professionally  during-  the  years  that  I  worked. 

Mr.  Wood.  You  mean  since  your  marriage? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  at  any  time  executive  secretary  of  Actors' 
Laboratory  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  grounds  previously 
stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  Actors'  Laboratory  and 
active  in  its  affairs  at  any  time  while  you  were  employed  in  a  secre- 
tarial capacity  by  a  theatrical  group  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  Would  you  give  me  that  again,  please? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  active  in  the  affairs  of  the  Actors'  Labo- 
ratory at  the  same  time  that  you  were  employed  by  a  theatrical  group, 
as  you  stated  a  moment  ago  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  It  seems  to  be  the  same  question  so  I  think  I  will  give 
you  the  same  answer,  a  refusal  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  WTere  you  the  financial  director  of  branch  F  of  the 
northwest  section  of  the  Communist  Party  of  Los  Angeles  at  any 
time  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  Will  you  repeat  that,  please? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  financial  director  of  branch  F  of  the 
northwest  section  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  of  the 
fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Or  of  any  branch  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  ground  of  the  fifth 
amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  ever  a  delegate  to  a  State  Communist  con- 
vention, to  be  more  particular,  to  the  one  held  in  Los  Angeles  Sep- 
tember 24,  1944? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  present  at  that  convention  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  at  any  time  literary  director  of  a  club 
of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  They  all  seem  to  be  different  forms  of  the  same  ques- 
tion. I  decline  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  at  any  time  obtain  from  the  Lincoln  Book 
Shop  literature  for  use  in  the  Communist  Party  meetings? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  same  ground. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  is  in  possession  of  information  in- 
dicating that  there  was  issued  to  you  in  1944  a  Communist  Political 
Association  book  No.  4G945.  Were  you  issued  a  Communist  Political 
Association  book? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Marjorie  Potts  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  it 
might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  delegate  to  the  Los  Angeles  County 
Communist  Party  Convention  of  October  30-31, 1943? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  grounds  that  it  might 
tend  to  incriminate  me. 


1552  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  grounds  that  it  might 
tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party 
at  any  time? 

Mrs.  Levitt.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  it 
might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter? 

Mr.  Walter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle? 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson? 

Mr.  Jackson.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter? 

Mr.  Potter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  why  the  witness  shouldn't  be  excused  from 
further  attendance  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  So  ordered. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  There  is  no  reason  for  not  being  excused. 

Mr.  Wood.  Very  well. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Alfred  Levitt. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  hold  up  your  right  hand,  please.  You  sol- 
emnly swear  the  evidence  you  give  this  subcommittee  shall  be  the 
truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Have  a  seat.  Are  you  represented  by  counsel,  Mr. 
Levitt? 

Mr.  Levitt.  Yes,  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  counsel  again  identify  themselves. 

Mr.  Kenny.  Robert  Kenny  and  Ben  Margolis,  Los  Angeles. 

TESTIMONY  OF  ALFRED  LEVITT,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HIS  COUNSEL, 
ROBERT  KENNY  AND  BEN  MARGOLIS 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  Mr.  Alfred  Levitt  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Levitt? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  was  born  in  New  York  City  on  June  3,  1916. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  been  your  educational  background? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  was  educated  in  the  elementary  and  high  schools 
of  New  York  City  and  received  a  B.  S.  degree  from  New  York  Uni- 
versity in  1937. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  a  general  way,  what  has  been  your  employment 
background  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  Well,  I  came  out  here  in  about  1939,  and  my  employ- 
ment-background, generally,  has  included  work  as  a  reader  in  the 
studios,  and  until  the  time  I  entered  the  Army,  and  upon  my  return 
from  overseas  I  worked  as  a  free-lance  writer  at  various  studios. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  ever  affiliated  with  the  Young  Commu- 
nist League  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  will  decline  to  answer  this  question  on  the  grounds 
that  an  answer  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1553 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  has  information  that  you  were  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party  here  in  Hollywood.  I  would  like 
to  ask  you  whether  or  not  that  is  true.  If  it  is,  I  would  like  to  ask 
you  further  questions  relating  to  your  knowledge  about  the  Com- 
munist Party  activities  in  the  Hollywood  industry. 

Mr.  Levitt.  Any  questions  that  deal  with  possible  knowledge  on  my 
part  of  the  Communist  Party  or  any  other  organization  which  is  in- 
cluded in  your  list  of  subversive  organizations  I  will  decline  to  answer 
on  the  grounds  provided  by  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  now,  that  is  not  quite  in  response  to  my 
question. 

Mr.  Levitt.  Well,  will  you  make  it  more  specific  and  I  will  give  my 
response  to  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  My  question  is,  Were  you  at  any  time  ever  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  that  I 
have  just  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter,  any  questions? 

Mr.  Walter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle? 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  mentioned,  Mr.  Levitt,  the  list  of  organizations. 
What  list  do  you  refer  to? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  referred  to  the  list  that  I  have  seen,  that  I  believe 
is  the  |  receiving  document  from  Attorney  Ben  Margolis] 

Mr.  Doyle.  Your  counsel  has  just  given  you  a  booklet, 

Mr.  Levitt.  Yes.     This  is  the  list  that  I  am  referring  to. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Have  you  read  the  list? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  have  not  read  it. 

Mr.  Doyle.  How  do  you  know,  then- 


Mr.  Levitt.  I  haven't  read  all  the  pages  of  it. 

Mr.  Doyle.  The  organizations  are  listed? 

Mr.  Levitt.  But  I  have  gone  through  it,  and  a  number  of  these 
organizations  I  have  seen  in  other  records.  Also,  I  have  read  previous 
testimony  that  has  appeared  here  in  the  course  of  hearings  held  by 
this  committee  and 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  organizations  did  you  note  in  there?  Tell  me 
the  names  of  the  organizations  that  you  noticed  in  there  that  were 
listed  as  subversive. 

Mr.  Levitt.  It  is  a  bit  difficult  for  me  to  distinguish  now  between 
(hose  organizations  which  I  read  in  this  booklet  and  those  which  I 
read  in  the  various 

Mr.  Doyle.  When  did  you  read  the  list  of  those  in  that  booklet 
which  you  have  in  your  hand  from  your  attorney?     How  long  ago? 

Mr.  Levitt.  Oh,  I  have  read  it  from— I  have  seen  this  booklet 
within  the  past  several  weeks. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  didn't  answer  my  question,  please.  I  asked  you 
when  you  read  the  list  of  organizations  in  that  book. 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  have  not  said  at  any  time  that  I  have  read  the  list 
of  organizations  that  is  in  this  book. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  then,  I  misunderstood  you. 


1554  COMMUNISM   IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  beg  your  pardon.  That  is  a  misunderstanding.  What 
I  did  say  in  relation  to  your  earlier  questions  was  that  it  is  difficult 
for  me  to  distinguish  between  those  organizations  which  I  have  read 
about  in  the  reports  of  testimony  that  has  taken  place  in  previous 
hearings  of  this  committee  in  which  it  has  been  mentioned  that 
various  organizations  are  listed  in  this  book  and  those  which  I  actually 
did  see  in  the  book,  itself. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  organizations  in  previous  hearings  of  this  com- 
mittee did  you  hear  were  listed  in  that  book?  Give  me  the  name  of 
any  organization  that  you  previously  heard  as  a  result  of  newspapers 
or  otherwise  to  be  listed  in  this  book  which  you  now  have  in  your 
hand — just  given  you  by  your  lawyer.    Give  me  the  name  of  one. 

Mr.  Levitt.  One  such  organization  is  the  Hollywood  Writers' 
Mobilization. 

Mr.  Doyee.  Give  me  the  name  of  another. 

Mr.  Levitt.  One' other,  I  believe,  is  the  Arts,  Sciences  and  Profes- 
sions Council. 

Mr.  Doyle.  When  did  you  hear  that  that  was  ever  listed  as  sub- 
versive? How  long  ago,  in  any  previous  hearing  before  this  com- 
mittee? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  said  earlier  that  it  was  difficult  for  me  to  distinguish 
between  learning  of  the  attitude  of  this  committee  toward  these  organ- 
izations from  reading  their  names  in  this  book  or  from  reading  in  the 
accounts  of  previous  testimony,  and  I  cannot  give  you  a  certain  an- 
swer to  that  particular  question. 

Mr.  Doyee.  Well,  1  judged  you  couldn't  from  your  former  answer. 
That  is  why  I  have  taken  your  time  and  mine  to  ask  you,  to  see  how 
definite  you  were  in  that  field  of  reply  to  the  question.  Now,  you  have 
the  book  before  you  that  has  just  been  given  you  by  your  attorney, 
Mr.  Margolis.  Point  out,  please,  there  the  name  of  the  organization 
that  you  just  quoted.  Have  you  ever  seen  it  actually  listed  in  that 
book  ?  If  you  have,  refer  to  the  same  page  where  you  found  it  before, 
please,  and  read  us  the  name  of  the  organization.  I  see  you  are  look- 
ing at  the  book.    Do  you  need  the  help  of  your  attorney  to  find  it? 

Mr.  Margolis.  Is  there  any  objection  to  my  giving  him  help,  Mr. 
Doyle? 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  am  asking  him — I  assume  he  saw  it  in  that  book 
before,  and  if  he  did  I  assume  he  knows  where  to  turn  again. 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  never  said  that  I  memorized  this  book  in  such  a  way 
that  I  could  find  anything  I  saw  in  it. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  think  you  said  you  saw  it,  sir,  and  therefore 

Mr.  Levitt.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  assume  that  you  are  capable  of  turning  to  the  book 
again  without  your  attorney  directing  your  attention  to  the  page 
where  it  is  listed? 

Mr.  Levitt.  If  you  have  objections — my  attorney  is  helping  us,  I'm 
sure. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  think  you  are  perfectly  able  to  find  it  again  if  you 
ever  found  it  before.    I  know  your  attorney  is  capable  of  finding  it. 

Mr.  Levitt.  It  seems  to  me  that  for  a  committee  to  travel  3,000 
miles  here  to  find  out  whether  I  am  able  to  use  a  catalog  that  is  alpha- 
betically arranged 


COMMUNISM    UN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1555 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  assure  you,  young  man,  that  that  is  not  our  purpose 
at  all. 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  see. 

Mr.  Doyle.  But  the  way  you  answered  me  led  me  to  believe  that 
you  were  not  quite  accurate  in  your  answer.  Therefore  I  am  not 
presuming  upon  your  intelligence  nor  credulity  or  anything  of  the 
sort  in  asking  you  again  to  point  out  the  name  of  the  organization 
that  you  said  you  saw  in  this  book. 

Mr.  Levitt.  On  page  5G  of  this  book  a — I  beg  your  pardon.  On 
page  57  of  this  book  there  is  listed — 

Hollywood  Writers'  Mobilization  cited  as  subversive  and  Communist.  Attorney 
General  Tom  Clark,  Letters  to  Loyalty  Review  Board,  released  December  4, 
1947,  and  September  21,  1948.  Cited  as  a  Communist-front  organization  whose 
"true  purpose"  was  "the  creation  of  a  clearing  house  for  Communist  propaganda." 
California  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  Report  1945,  page  130. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Thank  you.  Now,  can  you  turn  to  the  name  of  any 
other  organization  that  you  noted  in  that  book  ever  before  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  told  you  earlier,  and  I  will  repeat  it  again,  that  it 
is  very  difficult  for  me  to  distinguish  between  the  sources  of  having 
learned  that  this  committee  considers  one  organization  or  another 
subversive.  On  some  occasions  it  may  have  been  from  this  book  and 
on  some  occasions  from  reading  the  testimony.  I  can't  recall  on 
which  occasion  in  relation  to  which  particular  organization.  It  is 
a  rather — — 

Mr.  Doyle.  When  did  you  ever  on  any  other  occasion  note  on  that 
page  the  name  of  that  organization  which  you  just  read?  When  on 
any  other  occasion  before  just  now  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  Well,  in  consultation  with  my  attorneys  this  book  was 
shown  me. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Within  the  last  week  or  two  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  Within  the  last  few  weeks. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  that  is  what  I  assumed  when  I  asked  you  these 
questions,  which  is  all  right.  You  have  the  perfect  right  to  counsel. 
Don't  misunderstand  me. 

Mr.  Levitt.  Sir,  I  could  not  quite  understand  what  the  nature  of 
your  question  was  leading  to. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  I  was  directing  that  question  to  the  first  time 
you  ever  noticed  that  list  or  that  organization.  Now,  is  that  the 
only  organization  which  you  noticed  in  that  book  before  a  week  ago 
when  you  were  in  counsel  with  your  attorneys? 

Mr.  Levitt.  No  ;  I  noticed  others. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  others? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  thumbed  through  it.  I  can't  recall  which  ones  I 
noticed  from  this  book. 

Mr.  Doyle.  That  was  a  week  ago.  Were  you  looking  for  names 
of  organizations  of  which  you  were  a  member  at  that  time  which 
might  have  been  held  subversive  when  you  referred  to  that  book,  or 
for  some  other  purpose? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Of  course,  the  reason  I  have  asked  you  about  that  book 
is  that  you  have  referred  to  it  as  a  book  in  which  there  is  listed  organ- 

1  Guide  to  Subversive  Organizations  and  Publications,  prepared  and  released  by  the 
Committee  on  Un-American  Activities.  March  3,  1951.  (Reference  found  on  pase  59  of 
revised  document  printed  under  same  tide,  as  House  Document  lP.T,  May  14,  1951.) 

81595 — 51— pt.  4 10 


1556  COMMUNISM   EN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

izations  either  declared  subversive  by  this  committee  or  by  the  Attor- 
ney General  of  the  United  States,  you  having  said  that  you  referred 
to  the  book.  Therefore,  I  felt  that  I  had  a  perfect  right  without 
being  anything  but  fair  to  you,  to  see  really  what  you  had  ever  no- 
ticed in  that  book.  I  just  want  to  say  this,  young  man,  to  you,  as 
a  young  man.  You  said  you  just  returned  from  World  War  II,  and 
I  noticed  your  wife  said  that  she  had  stopped  working  in  gainful 
work  to  raise  a  family. 

Mr.  Levitt.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  want  to  commend  you  both  on  that  high  purpose,  but 
as  an  older  man  who  lost  his  son  in  the  last  war,  and  I  did,  I  want 
to  just  urge  you  as  a  young  man  who  has  received  the  benefits  of 
our  great  Nation,  if  you  are  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  for 
God's  sake  get  out  of  it  and  be  true  to  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Levitt,  I  think  you  said  you  were  in  the  Army. 

Mr.  Levitt.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Jackson.  When  did  your  Army  service  commence? 

Mr.  Levitt.  It  commenced  in  December  of  1942, 1  oelieve,  and — can 
I  refer  to  my  discharge  here  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Just  generally. 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  got  my  discharge,  I  believe,  in  January  of  1946. 

Mr.  Jackson.  What  was  your  rank  upon  discharge? 

Mr.  Levitt.  Sergeant, 

Mr.  Jackson.  Would  you  willingly  serve  in  the  Armed  Forces  of 
this  country  again  if  it  became  necessary  to  do  so,  even  though  it  might 
involve  conflict  with  the  Soviet  Union? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  believe — I  must  say,  in  preface  to  my  answer,  as -a 
matter  of  fact  as  part  of  my  answer,  that  this  question  has  occurred 
before  in  this  room  and  has  the  design  of  facing  a  witness  with  the 
alternatives  of  either  appearing  to  jump  on  the  bandwagon  for  what  I 
consider  the  destruction  of  civilization,  or  else  to  appear  in  the  light 
of  someone  who  is  not  willing  to  fulfill  his  obligations  as  a  citizen. 
Now,  I  have  always  fulfilled  my  obligations  as  a  citizen,  to  the  best 
of  my  ability,  and  I  always  intend  to  fulfill  my  obligations  as  a  citizen 
to  the  best  of  my  ability. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Do  you  think,  Mr.  Levitt,  that  one  of  the  obligations 
of  your  citizenship  is  service  in  the  military  forces? 

Mr.  Levitt.  It  may  be ;  it  is  possible.  And  when  I  am  called  upon 
to  serve  in  the  military 

Mr.  Jackson.  It  is  quite  definitely  an  obligation  of  citizenship  to 
serve  your  country  in  time  of  need. 

Mr.  Levitt.  Perhaps  I  should  make  the  distinction  that  I  feel  very 
strongly,  and  perhaps  it  will  explain  a  little  bit  more  about  my  answer. 
I  feel  that  since  World  War  II  an  entirely  new  element  has  entered 
the  world  in  the  form  of  atomic  weapons  which  now  makes  the  possi- 
bility of  war  completely  different  from  anything  which  was  ever 
known  to  history  before,  in  that  the  consideration  of  war,  I  believe, 
is  a  consideration  of  the  destruction — entire  destruction  of  civiliza- 
tion. 1  feel,  therefore,  that  efforts  should  be  bent  entirely  in  the 
direction  of  securing  peace. 

Mi-.  Jackson.  Have  you  ever  expressed  yourself  as  being  opposed 
to  the  Soviet  foreign  policy  of  its  actions  abroad?  Are  yon  opposed 
to  the  Soviet  policy  as  compared  to  the  American  policy? 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE'   INDUSTRY  1557 

Mr.  Levitt.  If  you  are  asking  me  to  express  an  opinion  on  foreign 
policy,  let  me  tell  yon  that  I  cannot  answer  it  that  simply  as  to  say 
I  am  in  favor,  for  example,  of  American  policy.  There  are  aspects 
of  American  policy  with  which  I  am  in  agreement  and  certain  aspects 
with  which  I  am  not  in  agreement.     I  believe 

Mr.  Jackson.  Do  you  support  American  foreign  policy  in  Korea? 

Mr.  Levitt.  If  you  mean  do  I  approve  of  the 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  reference  to  the  entrance  and  participation  of 
United  Nations  troops  as  opposed  to  the  puppet  troops  of  North 
Korea  and  the  Chinese  Reds.  Do  you  approve  American  and  United 
Nations  action,  or  do  you  disapprove  that  commitment? 

Mr.  Levitt.  If  President  Truman  had  called  me  that  day  in  June,  I 
believe  it  was,  and  asked  me  whether  I  approved  sending  troops  in,  I 
would  have  said,  uNo,  I  don't;  wait."  I  think  that  the  risking  and 
actual  expenditure  of  lives  here  was  something  that  I  would  not  be 
in  favor  of  rushing  into.  I  would  much  rather  have  waited  and  dis- 
cussed this  in  terms — used  every  effort  of  conference  tables  to  try  to 
prevent  such  a  thing. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Suppose  President  Truman  had  not  asked  you  for 
your  opinion  but  only  for  your  services  in  Korea.     Would  you  serve? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  would  obey  the  law. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  would  serve  in  Korea  if  called? 

Mr.  Levitt.  If  I  had  been  called  to  serve  in  Korea  I  would  have 
served. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter. 

Mr.  Potter.  Mr.  Levitt,  if  your  feelings  about  war  and  the  fact 
that  a  general  world  war  now  would  be  most  destructive  to  civiliza- 
tion— which  we  all  fear,  however,  many  of  us  also  have  a  greater  fear 
of  losing  our  freedom — I  am  wondering  if  your  views  would  be  the 
same  if  the  United  States  should  be  attacked  by  Franco  Spain. 

Mr.  Levitt.  My  views  on  peace  would  be  the  same,  yes;  in  any  case. 
I  feel  that  the  possibility  of  considering  attack  and  any  possibility 
of  world-wide  war  would  be  absolutely  disastrous  to  civilization  in  its 
entirety.  I  feel  that  elements — I  would  like  to  refer  back  a  little  bit 
to  Mr.  Jackson's  question  about  foreign  policy,  and  I  believe  that  this 
is  terribly  important  to  the  way  I  feel  and  the  way  I  have  testified 
before  this  committee,  and  that  is  that  I  feel  that  every  person,  every 
individual,  every  group,  has  the  right  to  any  opinion.  In  the  areas  of 
opinion,  the  areas  of  speech  and  the  areas  of  association  should 
have  complete  freedom.  1  think  people  are  responsible  and  should  be 
held  accountable  for  their  acts.  Now,  I  don't  think  that  those  rights 
should  be  diminished  on  the  basis  of  the  judgment  of  these  opinions  by 
any  one  group,  or  even  by  the  popularity  throughout  the  country  at  any 
given  time  because  such  popularities  change  with  time  and  the  effect 
of  diminishing  such  freedoms  is  that  although  there  may  be  a  minority 
affected  by  this  it  also  affects  the  majority  because  then  the  majority  is 
afraid,  becomes  cautious  about  its  thoughts  and  opinions  for  fear  that 
they  will  be  interpreted  in  another  way. 

Mr.  Potter.  Of  course,  you  realize,  as  well  as  I,  that  the  suppres- 
sion of  opinion  in  a  Communist-dominated  country,  and  within  the 
Communist  Party  itself,  it  is  much  more  severe  than  any  suppression 
of  opinion  that  you  would  ever  get  or  ever  find  in  a  democracy  such 
as  we  have  here. 


1558  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Levitt.  What  I  realize  mostly  is  that  this  is  my  country,  to 
which  I  give  my  allegiance,  and  this  is  the  country  whose  imperfec- 
tions, when  they  exist,  I  wish  to  do  everything  I  can  to  right,  accord- 
ing to  how  I  see  it.  I  feel  that  any  attempt  to  prevent  me  from  doing 
so  by  blacklist,  by  official  censure,  or  anything  else  tends  to  prevent 
the  free  exchange  of  ideas  upon  which  this  country  is  based.  It 
doesn't  make  any  difference  if  you  should  set  examples  of  others  who 
do  not  agree  with  these  ideas.  This  does  not  diminish  my  belief  in 
my  ideas  at  all. 

Mr.  Potter.  The  very  organ  in  which  you  wish  to  find  expression 
for  the  opinions  that  you  have  just  stated  certainly  can't  be  found  in 
the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Levitt.  This  is  a  statement? 

Mr.  Potter.  I  am  not  asking  a  question;  I  am  just  making  a  state- 
ment. 

I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Levitt.  Whether  or  not  this  is  true,  this  still  does  not  affect 
my  belief. 

Mr.  Potter.  I  know.    It  is  a  discussion.    I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  further  questions,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 

I  would  like  to  ask  you,  Mr.  Levitt,  what  screen  credits  you  have 
acquired  while  a  writer,  or  the  principal  ones. 

Sir.  Levitt.  My  name  appears  on  a  film  called  the  Boy  With  Green 
Hair;  a  script  called  the  Wild  Country,  which  is  not  yet  produced; 
and  a  film  called  Shakedown;  on  a  film  called  Mrs.  Mike;  and  on  a 
script  which  is  now  in  preparation  called  Dream  Wife. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  I  understand  you  to  say  that  for  a  period  of 
time  you  served  in  the  capacity  of  a  reader? 

Mr.  Levitt.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  was  that  service  performed? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  first  engaged  in  what  is  called  outside  reading.  I 
don't  know  whether  this  is  familiar  to  the  committee  or  not.  It  is  kind 
of  a  complicated  procedure  which  has  been  done  away  with  now. 
The  studios  all  have  their  regular  reading  staffs,  and  there  was  a 
certain  amount  of  work  which  would  be  beyond  the  capacity  of  their 
regular  staffs,  and  there  was  a  corps  of  outside  readers  developed 
who  wanted  to  eventually  become  staff  readers.  Through  the  Readers' 
Guild  the  studio  reading  department  heads  would  have  a  list  of  people, 
as  they  were  available,  and  they  would  be  assigned  to  read  and  synop- 
size  a  piece  of  work.  I  did  this  for  a  period  of  time.  Then  I  was 
hired  at  Selznick  Studios  on  a  rather  special  project  that  was  not  re- 
lated to  films  actually.  I  believe  Mr.  Selznick  at  that  time,  whom  I 
have  never  met,  was  looking  for  a  play  for  some  theater  project  that 
he  had  up-State  in  Santa  Barbara.  After  that  I  became  a  staff  reader 
at  Paramount. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  serve  as  a  staff  reader  and  when? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  believe  that  it  was  1941  and  1942.  I  know  that  it 
ended  in  1942  because  I  went  into  the  Army  from  Paramount,  and  I 
believe  it  began  in  1941. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  at  the 
time  you  served  as  a  staff  reader? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds 
previously  stated. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1559 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  work  for  the  same  employer  during  that 
entire  time  when  you  served  as  a  staff  reader? 

Mr.  Levitt.  You  mean  the  same  immediate  superior?  Yes;  the 
same  place,  Paramount  Pictures. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  that  period  of  time  did  you  attempt  on  any 
occasion  to  influence  the  studio  in  accepting  any  script  which  was 
slanted,  to  your  knowledge,  according  to  the  Communist  Party  line  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  believe  that  anybody  who  attempted  to  influence  the 
purchase  of  a  script  on  the  basis  of  its  slant  in  any  direction  would  not 
last  very  long  in  his  job.  The  attempt,  at  least,  is  made  to  purchase 
scripts  on  the  basis  of  merit  so  that  the  slant  of  a  script,  the  political 
attitude  of  a  script,  could  never  in  itself,  or  at  least  at  that  time  could 
never  influence  its  purchase. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now  will  you  answer  my  question,  please  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  Would  you  repeat  the  question,  please  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Would  you  read  the  question  to  the  witness. 

The  reporter  read  the  question  as  follows : 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  that  period  of  time  did  yon  attempt  on  any  occasion 
to  influence  the  studio  in  accepting  any  script  which  was  slanted,  to  your 
knowledge,  according  to  the  Communist  Party  line? 

(The  witness  conferred  with  his  counsel.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  please  indicate  that  the  witness  is  con- 
ferring with  counsel. 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  beg  your  pardon  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  asked  the  reporter  to  always  indicate  when  the 
witness  was  conferring  with  counsel. 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  have  never  attempted  to  influence  the  purchase  of  any 
script  on  the  basis  of  its  slant  in  any  direction. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you,  in  your  reading,  approve  or  recommend 
for  acceptance  any  script  that  you  knew  was  prepared  by  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  I  can't  even  recall  now  as  a  reader — one  covers  a  great 
many  manuscripts  in  the  course  of  a  week.  This  was — I  ended  my 
work  as  a  reader  in  1942, 9  years  ago. 

Even  if  it  were  so,  that  I  had  any  basis,  or  any  opinion  about  the 
writer  of  the  script,  I  can't  remember  which  scripts  I  recommended 
and  which  I  didn't. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  you  do  remember  the  individuals  who  prepared 
the  scripts,  do  you  not  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  No  ;  I  don't  recall  the  scripts  that  I  covered  as  a  reader. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  whether  or  not  any  script  that  you 
covered  as  a  reader  was  written  or  prepared  by  a  person  known  to 
you  to  be  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  \ 

Mr.  Levitt.  In  order  to  recall  such  a  thing,  there  would  have  to  be 
an  indication  on  my  part  of  knowledge  or  acquaintance  with  member- 
ship in  the  Communist  Party,  and  I  don't  intend  to  answer  such  ques- 
tions which  would  have  such  implication.  Therefore,  I  decline  to 
answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Namely,  that  to  answer  it  might  tend  to  incrimi- 
nate you  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  That's  right ;  an  answer  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  That's  all. 

Mr.  Levitt.  Before  I  am  excused,  I  forgot  to  ask  to  have  my  state- 
ment received. 


1560  COMMUNISM   IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Wood.  Is  there  any  reason  why  this  witness  shouldn't  be  ex- 
cused from  further  attendance? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Are  you  presently  employed  ? 

Mr.  Levitt.  No  ;  I'm  not. 

Mr.  Jackson.  No  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  You  will  be  excused. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Miss  Bess  Taffel. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  Miss  Taffel  ? 

Miss  Taffel.  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  hold  up  your  right  hand  and  be  sworn. 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  will  give  this  sub- 
committee shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the 
truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Miss  Taffel.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  represented  by  counsel  ? 

Miss  Taffel.  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  counsel  please  identify  himself  for  the  record. 

Mr.  Wirin.  A.  L.  Wirin,  Los  Angeles. 

TESTIMONY  OF  BESS  TAFFEL,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HER  COUNSEL, 

A.  L.  WIRIN 

Mr.  Wood.  During  the  course  of  your  interrogation  you  are  allowed 
to  confer  with  your  counsel  any  time  you  desire.  You  have  the  privi- 
lege of  conferring  with  your  client  at  any  time  you  may  deem  proper. 

Mr.  Wirin.  May  we  have  a  moment  to  have  the  pictures  out  of  the 
way? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes ;  I  will  give  the  photographers  a  moment. 

Mr.  Wirin.  May  I  say  that  I  think  I  have  a  photogenic  witness 
here. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  Miss  Bess  Taffel  ? 

Miss  Taffel.  I  am. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Miss  Taffel  ? 

Miss  Taffel.  December  10, 1913,  in  Boston,  Mass. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  come  to  Los  Angeles? 

Miss  Taffel.  In  the  fall  of  1938, 1  believe. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  been  engaged  in  work  in  Los  Angeles 
since  that  time? 

Miss  Taffel.  Yes.     I  am  a  screen  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  briefly  what  your  edu- 
cational training  has  been  for  your  profession? 

Miss  Taffel.  I  was  educated  mostly  in  the  public  schools  of  New 
York  City.  I  have  a  bachelor  of  arts  degree  from  Hunter  College  of 
New  York  City  and  a  master  of  arts  degree  from  the  University  of 
Southern  California  in  this  city. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  obtain  your  master's  degree  in  Cali- 
fornia ? 

Miss  Taffel.  I  believe  it  was  in  1940. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  to  the  committee  what  has  been  the 
nature  of  your  work  since  1940? 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1561 

Miss  Taffel.  I  worked  as  a  free-lance  writer  in  most  of  the  studios; 
and  at  Goldwyirs,  which  is  an  independent;  and  I  was  under  contract 
to  RKO  for  about  3y2  years;  a  little  less  than  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Over  what  period  of  time  was  that? 

Miss  Taffel.  The  contract? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.  What  period  of  time  were  you  employed 
there? 

Miss  Taffel.  At  RKO? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Miss  Taffel.  I  believe  it  began  in  October  of  1944  and  ended  in 
January  of  1948. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  had  any  other  employment  as  a  screen 
writer  besides  that  which  you  have  mentioned  since  1940 — since  19 — 
yes;  since  1940. 

Miss  Taffel.  I  worked  on  television  pictures. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  how  have  you  been  employed  since  1948? 

Miss  Taffel.  Since  1948? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes ;  when  you  said  it  was  the  end  of  your  contract 
with  RKO. 

Miss  Taffel.  Oh.  Well,  I  have  since  again  worked  as  a  free-lance 
writer  at  three  studios.     I  think  Warner  Bros.,  Columbia,  and  Fox. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Miss  Taffel,  we  heard  in  the  testimony  here  this 
morning  of  Mr.  Leo  Townsend  that  you  were  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  while  engaged  in  work  here  in  Hollywood  studios.  We 
would  like  to  know  whether  or  not  it  is  true,  and  if  it  is,  we  want  your 
cooperation  in  telling  this  committee  all  that  you  can  regarding  the 
operations  of  the  Communist  Party  in  this  area,  particularly  in  con- 
nection with  the  movie  industry. 

Miss  Taffel.  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  claim  the  privilege  against  self-in- 
crimination on  that  question.     I  decline  to  answer  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter,  any  questions  ? 

Mr.  Walter.  No. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle  ? 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson,  any  questions? 

Mr.  Jackson.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter? 

Mr.  Potter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  why  the  witness  shouldn't  be  excused  from 
further  testimony? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  So  ordered.     Any  further  witnesses  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Herbert  Klein. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  Mr.  Herbert  Klein  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Raise  your  right  hand,  please,  sir,  and  be  sworn.  You 
solemnly  swear  the  testimony  you  shall  give  this  subcommittee  shall 
be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help 
you  God  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  represented  by  counsel,  Mr.  Klein  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes,  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Please  identify  yourself. 

Mr.  Kelly.  Robert  Kenny,  Los  Angeles. 


1562  COMMUNISM   IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

TESTIMONY  OF  HERBERT  ARTHUR  KLEIN.  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HIS 

COUNSEL,  ROBERT  KENNY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  your  name,  please,  sir  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  As  soon  as  the  pictures  are  over. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Klein.  Sir? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  your  full  name,  please,  sir  I 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes.    Herbert  Arthur  Klein. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  do  you  spell  your  last  name  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  K-1-e-i-n. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Klein  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  In  New  York  City,  1907,  January  7.' 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  to  the  committee  what  your  educa- 
tional background  has  been? 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes.  Grammar  and  high  schools  in  Los  Angeles ;  Stan- 
ford University,  A.  B.  degree. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  were  you  at  Stanford  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Until  1928.    Occidental  College,  master's  degree. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Excuse  me.  Will  you  raise  your  voice  a  little.  It  is 
hard  for  me  to  hear  with  the  fans  over  to  my  left. 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes,  sure.  Occidental  College,  master's  degree.  Gradu- 
ate work  in  European  universities  and  at  Columbia  University. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  did  you  receive  graduate  work  in  Europe  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  had  several  semesters  in  German  universities  in  the 
city  of  Berlin. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  university  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  The  University  of  Berlin,  itself,  and  the  Handels- 
Hochschule,  which  is  the  equivalent  of  a  graduate  school  of  business 
or  economics.  . 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  the  name  of  the  institution. 

Mr.  Klein.  Surely.    H-a-n-d-e-1-s — H-o-c-h-s-c-h-u-l-e. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  receive  a  degree  or  degrees  as  a  result  of 
the  graduate  work  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  No,  no  further  degrees  beyond  the  master's. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  what  was  the  year  in  which  you  completed 
your  graduate  work  in  Germany? 

Mr.  Klein.  1933. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  remain  in  Germany  after  the 
completion  of  your  work? 

Mr.  Klein.  Oh,  I  believe  I  left  very  shortly  thereafter.  I  left 
Germany,  if  I  am  not  mistaken,  in  April  of  1933.     April  or  May. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  return  at  that  time  to  the  United  States? 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  no. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  you  say  you  left  Germany 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes.  No,  I  was  engaged  in  newspaper  work,  also,  and 
from  Germany  I  went  to  London  where  I  continued  in  newspaper 
work  for  a  number  of  months. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  what  type  of  newspaper  work  were  you  en- 
gaged in  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  was  working  for  news  services.  I  was  working  for 
the  Chicago  Tribune  at  the  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  return  to  the  United  States? 

Mr.  Klein.  In  the  latter  part  of  the  summer  of  1933. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE'   INDUSTRY  1563 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Since  returning  to  the  United  States  how  have  you 
been  employed? 

Mr.  Klein.  My  employment  has  been  chiefly  as  a  teacher.  I  have 
also  had  employment  in  newspaper  and  news  service  work. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  been  your  employment  in  newspaper  and 
news  service  work  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  may  I  just  give  the  most  important  instances? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir.  We  may  differ  on  the  question  of  impor- 
tance, so  I  would  like  for  you  to  name  all  the  newspapers  that  you 
have  worked  for. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  see.  Well,  I  have  had  employment  of  varying  dura- 
tions for  the  French  Kadio  News  Service  in  New  York;  with  the 
Los  Angeles  Daily  News ;  for  the  newspaper  PM  as  a  correspondent ; 
and  for  the  San  Francisco  Call-Bulletin  and  some  other  publications 
of  a  trade-union  nature. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  worked  at  any  time  in  any  capacity  for  a 
publication  of  the  Communist  Party  ?  By  that,  I  am  not  indicating 
that  I  have  information  that  that  is  correct. 

Mr.  Klein.  Publication  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.  The  New  Masses,  for  instance,  was  recognized 
as  a  publication,  an  official  organ  of  the  Communist  Party.  So  was 
the  Daily  Worker  and 

Mr.  Klein.  I  see. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Various  other  papers  with  which  you  are  no  doubt 
familiar. 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  I  am  not  intimately  familiar  with  the  definitions 
and  the  ramifications  of  the  listing  of  subversive  organizations  or 
publications,  and  I  decline  to  give  an  answer  to  this  question  on  the 
grounds  of  possible  self-incrimination  and  a  privilege  as  granted 
me  under  the  fifth  amendment  of  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  what  was  your  last  newspaper  assignment  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Pardon  me  just  a  moment.  Are  you  referring  to  my 
latest  employment  by  a  daily  newspaper  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  we  will  take  that  first. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  mean,  I  don't  wish  to  be  hair-splitting,  but  I  would 
like  to  know  the  nature  of  your  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.   Well,  let's  take  that  first,  daily  newspapers. 

Mr.  Klein.  That's  right.  The  last  time  I  worked  for  a  daily  news- 
paper, to  the  best  of  my  recollection,  was  for  the  Los  Angeles  Daily 
News. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  was  that? 

Mr.  Klein.  That  was  until — that  was  approximately  July  of  1945, 
or  possibly  August. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  will  you  state  your  last  employment  with  a 
news  service  of  any  other  character,  other  than  a  daily  paper? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  see.  Well,  I  must  decline  to  answer  that  question  on 
the  grounds  of  possible  self-incrimination  and  the  rights  guaranteed 
me  under  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Wood.  Well,  that  doesn't  require  you  to  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  beg  your  pardon  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  There  isn't  any  compulsion. 

Mr.  Klein.  No,  I  understand.  The  phraseology  called  for  is  I  do 
decline  to  answer  as  previously  stated. 


1564  COMMUNISM   IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  hold  any  office  or  position  in  any  newspaper 
or  news  service  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Office  or  position  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes ;  such  as  an  editor  of  a  paper,  a  business  mana- 
ger or  any  other  position  with  a  news  publication  or  news  service. 

(Witness  consults  with  counsel.) 

Mr.  Klein.  Oh,  I  see.  You  mean  a  position  of  some  authority  or 
executive  position  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  of  course,  I  used  it  in  a  rather  broad  sense. 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  I  was  wondering  if  you  meant  that  being  office 
bo}'  was  a  position,  also  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Oh,  no.  I  wouldn't  accuse  you  of  being  an  office 
boy,  see. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  wouldn't  take  it  amiss  if  you  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  us  forget  about  any  menial  positions  of  that 
character,  but  I  am  speaking  of  a  position  such  as  an  editor,  the  head 
of  a  news  organization,  or  a  position  comparable  to  that. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  see.  Well,  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  grounds 
previously  stated.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  grounds  that  I  have 
previously  given. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  the  head  of  the  Federated  Press  in 
1944 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  Los  Angeles? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  of 
possible  self-incrimination  and  the  rights  guaranteed  me" under  the 
fifth  amendment  of  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  contribute  articles  to  the  New  Masses  at 
any  time  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  grounds  previously 
stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  we  have  talked  about  your  employment  record 
in  the  newspaper  field  and  in  the  news  service  field. 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  said  you  also  have  been  part-time  teacher. 
Will  you  tell  us  more  about  your  occupation  and  your  work  as  a 
teacher  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes.  I  was  a  member  of  the  faculty  of  Los  Angeles 
City  College  from  1938  until,  I  believe,  the  latter  part  of  December 
1941.  Just  after  Pearl  Harbor.  And  I  returned  to  teaching  in  the 
junior  college  field  in  February  of  1949  and  continued  until  the  close 
of  the  summer  just  ended — just  ending. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  where  was  that  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  At  the  junior  college,  El  Camino  Junior  College. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  in  addition  to  your  employment  in  the  news- 
paper field  and  as  a  teacher,  were  you  employed  in  the  motion-picture 
industry  in  any  capacity  at  any  time? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  had  some  employment  as  a  member  of  the  publicity 
organizations  of  three  or  four  motion-picture  studios.  This  was  in 
the  period,  I  believe,  between  the  beginning  of  1945 — I  beg  your  par- 
don— between  the  beginning  of  1935  and,  I  think,  the  close  of  1938. 
It  was  all  within  that  general  period.  I  worked  as  what  it  known  as 
a  unit  man.     That  is  to  say,  I  gathered  news  stories  about  motion 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE'   INDUSTRY  1565 

pictures  then  in  production.     These  stories  were  then  supplied  to 
newspapers  and  news  services  throughout  the  country. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  ever  been  employed  by  the  United  States 
Government  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes.  I  have. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  what  capacity  and  where  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  was  employed  during  1942  in  the  United  States  De- 
partment of  Agriculture,  and  during  approximately  the  first  5  or  6 
months  of  1943  in  the  WPB. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  War  Production  Board? 

Mr.  Klein.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  where  did  you  serve  in  your  first  position  in 
the  Agriculture  Department?     Where  did  you  serve? 

Mr.  Klein.  My  regular  place  of  employment  was  Washington, 
D.  C,  although  I  was  sent  out  a  number  of  times  on  field  trips  in  var- 
ious parts  of  the  country. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  general  nature  of  your  duties  while 
in  that  Government  employment? 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  this  was  a  research  position  designed  to  assist  in 
securing  the  necessary  farm  labor,  the  distribution  of  farm  labor  neces- 
sary to  provide  for  harvesting  of  all  the  crops  during  the  war  period. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  what  was  the  nature  of  your  duties  while 
employed  by  the  War  Production  Board? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  had  an  editorial  position,  and  my  duties  included  the 
preparation  of  articles  for  a  magazine  known  as,  I  believe  it  was,  War 
Production,  a  weekly  publication,  a  review  of  progress  in  the  field  of 
production. 

(Representative  Douald  L.  Jackson  left  the  hearing  room.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  the  performance  of  that  work,  were  you  given 
access  to  any  classified  information  ? 

(Witness  consults  counsel.) 

Mr.  Klein.  Would  you  kindly  explain  what  you  mean  by  classified 
information? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  if  your  position  was  to  write  on  subjects  deal- 
ing with  the  activities  of  the  War  Production  Board,  as  you  have 
stated.  I  would  like  to  know  just  what  access  you  had  to  information 
with  the  War  Production  Board  which  might  be  of  a  classified  or 
secret  character. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  see.  Well,  I  don't  recall  the  designations  of  the  ma- 
terial. My  work  consisted  almost  entirely  of  preparing  graphical 
presentations  and  charts  and,  to  a  lesser  extent,  of  rewriting;  that  is, 
supplying  the  wording  for  material  that  had  already  been  chosen  by 
the  editor. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  your  work  involve  the  preparation  of  articles 
for  publication  in  the  public  press  or  for  use  by  the  personnel  of  the 
War  Production  Board? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  believe  that  the  circulation  of  this  magazine  was  for 
the  purpose  of  the  personnel  of  the  War  Production  Board  and  certain 
other  Government  officials  with  whom  I  was  not  cognizant.  I  was  in 
no  way  aware  of  the  actual  subscription  or  circulation  list. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  is  it  correct  to  say  that  the  general  character 
of  that  work  was  of  a  restricted  nature  as  far  as  the  use  of  it  was 
concerned  ? 


1566  COMMUNISM   IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 


"Mr.  Klein.  I  cannot — I  can't  answer  as  to 

(Consulting  with  counsel.) 

I'm  sorry ;  I  was  about  to  say  I  cannot  give  an  answer  as  to  the  use 
to  which  this  information  was  put.  It  was  my  understanding,  from 
the  character  of  the  publication,  that  it  was  designed  to  provide  a 
rather  rapid  and  quick  survey  for  the  benefit  of  officials  interested  in 
war  production. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  date  of  your  going  to  the  War  Pro- 
duction Board? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  believe  that  it  was  in  February  of  1943. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  you  entered  upon  your  Government  em- 
ployment with  the  War  Production  Board,  did  you  sign  an  affidavit 
or  make  an  oath  that  you  were  not  a  member  of  any  organization  de- 
voted to  the  principle  of  overthrowing  the  Government  of  the  United 
States  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  cannot  recall  whether  I  had  any  such  oath  or  affirma- 
tion at  that  particular  juncture  because  my  work — my  position  was 
a  transfer  from  another  Government  agency. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Had  you  been  required  to  sign  such  an  affidavit 
when  you  first  entered  into  the  Agriculture  Department? 

Mr.  Klein.  It  is  my  recollection  that  that  took  place  approximately 
January  of  1942. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  your  entire  file,  including  your  oath,  would 
have  been  transferred  to  your  new  department  ? 

(Representative  Clyde  Doyle  left  the  room  at  this  point.) 

Mr.  Klein.  I  was  not  in  the  Personnel  Division.  I  cannot  give 
an  answer  to  that  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  you  entered  upon  your  work  with  the  War 
Production  Board,  were  you  a  member  of  any  organization  devoted 
to  the  overthrow  of  the  United  States  Government? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  of 
the  fifth  amendment  and  the  first  amendment  to  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  any  organization  devoted 
to  the  principle  of  the  overthrow  of  the  Government  of  the  United 
States  while  you  were  a  teacher  in  the  junior  college  which  you  referred 
to  a  moment  ago,  El  Camino  Junior  College  ?  ' 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  any  organization  devoted  to 
the  overthrow  of  the  Government  of  the  United  States  when  you  re- 
turned to  the  United  States  from  Germany  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Are  you  referring  to  the  year  1933  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Whatever  date  it  was  when  you  returned  from  the 
completion  of  your 

Mr.  Walter.  He  said  April  1933. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  April  1933,  I  am  advised. 

Mr.  Klein.  As  a  matter  of  fact  I  believe  it  was  August,  but  that's 
not  the  point.  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  grounds  previously 
stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  used  any  name  other  than  the  name 
which  you  have  given  to  the  committee  here  today? 

Mr.  Klein.  Declination  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds  as  previously 
given. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1567 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Isn't  it  a  fact  that  you  were  known  in  the  Commu- 
nist Party  by  the  name  of  James  Hall,  and  that  was  your  Communist 
Party  name  :i 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  to  answer  that  and  all  similar  questions  on  the 
grounds  of  the  right  assured  me  under  the  fifth  amendment  of  the 
Constitution. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  is  in  possession  of  information,  Mr. 
Klein,  that  in  1938  you  were  one  of  the  organizers  of  what  was  known 
as  unit  140  of  the  professional  section  of  the  Communist  Party  of 
Los  Angeles,  which  unit  was  made  up  of  Communists  who  belonged 
to  the  Newspaper  Guild  in  Los  Angeles.  Were  you  one  of  the  or- 
ganizers of  that  unit  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds  as  previ- 
ously given. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  inform  this  committee  as  to  any  fact  that 
you  have,  or  that  you  know,  relating  to  the  membership  in  such  a 
section  of  the  Communist  Party  of  members  of  the  Newspaper  Guild 
in  Los  Angeles  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  May  I  ask  you  to  repeat  that  question,  please? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  read  the  question,  please. 

(The  reporter  read  the  pending  question.) 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  same  ground  as  previ- 
ously given. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  make  a  report  to  a  Communist  Party  unit 
meeting  held  at  the  home  of  Rose  Boyd  in  Los  Angeles,  relating  to  the 
Communist  Party  State  convention  which  had  been  held  in  San  Fran- 
cisco earlier  in  the  month  of  May  1938  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  grounds  of  possible  self- 
incrimination  and  the  rights  assured  me  under  the  fifth  amendment 
of  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Nathan  Gregory  Silver- 
master  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  He  was  the  chief  of  the  Labor  Division  of  the  Farm 
Security  Administration  in  the  United  States  Department  of  Agricul- 
ture for  a  good  share  of  the  year  1942. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  employed  under  him  in  your  work  in  the 
Agriculture  Department  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes.  He  wasn't  my  immediate  superior,  but  he  was 
the  Chief  of  the  Division. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  visit  him  at  his  home  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  of 
my  rights  under  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  Victor  Perlo? 

Mr.  Klein  (conferring  with  counsel) .  I  decline  to  answer  that  ques- 
tion on  the  grounds  previously  stated. 

(The  witness  further  conferred  with  counsel.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  were  you  acquainted  with  Mr.  Silver- 
master  ( 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  previously 
stated  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  first  meet  him  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  again  on  the  grounds  I  have  already  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  May  I  call  to  your  attention,  and  your  counsel's 
attention,  for  his  consideration,  that  you  have  waived  any  possible 


1568  COMMUNISM   IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

immunity  you  may  have  to  answering  questions  relating  to  Silver- 
master  because  you  have  admitted  that  you  knew  him.  So  I  repeat 
the  question  :  When  did  you  first  meet  Mr.  Silvermaster  ? 

Mr.  Kenny.  I  think,  in  fairness  to  the  witness,  an  examination 
of  the  record  will  not  reflect  any  such  admission  that  the  witness 
knew  Mr.  Silvermaster.     He  worked  in  a  department  where  he  was. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  understood  you  to  mean  personal  acquaintance  when 
you  say,  "Did  you  know  him." 

(At  this  point  Representative  Donald  L.  Jackson  returned  to  the 
hearing  room.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  may  have  been  in  error  in  my  recollection  as  to 
the  question  and  answer,  and  I  withdraw  the  question.  During  the 
time  that  you  were  employed  by  the  War  Production  Board,  was  any 
question  raised  regarding  your  possible  membership  in  an  organiza- 
tion devoted  to  the  overthrow  of  the  Government  of  the  United 
States? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  al- 
ready sufficiently  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Why  did  you  leave  your  employment  with  the  War 
Production  Board  ? 

Mr.  Klein  (after  conferring  with  counsel).  I  will  also  decline  to 
answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  I  have  already  given. 

Mr.  Tavennp:r.  How  are  you  now  employed,  Mr.  Klein? 

Mr.  Klein.  As  of  the  present  time  I  am  not  employed. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  what  work  are  you  now  engaged,  whether  em- 
ployed or  unemployed  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  At  this  moment? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Not  while  you  are  sitting  here,  but  I  would  say 
yesterday  and  the  week  before. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  see.  Well,  since  approximately  1 :  30  Sunday  after- 
noon my  time  has  been  employed  at  the  discretion  of  this  committee. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  understand  that,  and  I  am  not  referring  to  that 
period  of  time. 

Mr.  Klein  (after  conferring  with  counsel).  Well,  I  have  been  for 
some  time,  as  a  parallel  or  side  employment,  I  have  been  self-em- 
ployed in  the  making  of  educational  films  or  visual  aids. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Haven't  you  been  engaged  in  other  work  besides 
that  within  the  past  few  weeks  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes.  I  was  until  recently;  I  was  doing  public-relation? 
work  for  a  trade-union. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  trade-union? 

Mr.  Klein.  The  United  Automobile  Workers. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now  on  strike  at  Douglas  Long  Beach 

Mr.  Klein.  What  is  the  implication  of  your  question,  if  I  may  ask  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  answer  the  question,  please,  sir? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  would  like  to  have  a  little  clarification. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  If  you  want  the  implication,  it  is  this.  This  com- 
mittee has  made  a  very  strenuous  effort  over  a  period  of  2  years  to 
advise  the  leadership  in  labor  when  it  has  been  infiltrated  by  persons 
who  advocate  principles  which  are  disloyal  to  this  country,  and  that 
is  the  inference  which  I  want  to  present,  if  there  is  a  basis  for  it.  Now 
you  are  in  a  position  to  clear  that  matter  up.  If  you  are  a  member  of 
the  Communist  Party  and  as  such  are  engaged  in  any  responsible 
position  in  labor,  in  government,  in  the  moving-picture  industry,  or 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1569 

in  any  other  industry,  it  is  the  duty  of  this  committee  to  investigate 
that  fact  and  find  it  out. 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  I  wish  to  call  to  the  counsel's  attention  that  I  have 
terminated  this  employment. 

Mi1.  Tavenner.  I  did  not  hear  your  answer. 

Mr.  Wood.  He  called  counsel's  attenion  to  the  fact  that  his  employ- 
ment has  been  terminated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  was  that  done? 

Mr.  Klein  (conferring  with  counsel).  I  terminated  it  as  early 
as  possible  after  receiving  the  subpena  from  the  committee.  It  took 
effect  as  of  this  morning. 

Air.  Tavenner.  I  want  to  commend  you  for  that  action  because  I 
meant  to  leave  no  implication  that  there  was  any  Communist  leader- 
ship in  that  strike  or  that  it  was  in  any  sense  a  Communist  strike.  I 
have  no  information  or  knowledge  on  the  subject.  But,  if  there  is 
anyone  connected  with  it  who  is  working  as  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party,  then  we  want  to  know  that  fact. 

Mr.  Klein.  Is  this  a  question  that  you  are  addressing  to  me  or  is 
it  a  statement? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It's  an  answer  to  the  inference  which  you  said  that 
we  were  making. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  see. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter,  do  you  have  any  questions  ? 

Mr.  Walter.  Mr.  Klein,  what  was  the  Federated  Press  ? 

Mr.  Klein  (after  conferring  with  counsel).  I  will  have  to  decline 
to  answer  your  question  or  to  enter  into  any  discussion  on  the  grounds 
that  I  have  already  stated  in  previous  declinations. 

Mr.  Wood.  As  far  as  this  committee  is  concerned,  you  don't  have 
to  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  will  rephrase  it  and  say  I  do  decline. 

Mr.  Walter.  I  don't  care  to  enter  into  any  discussion  with  you 
about  it ;  I  merely,  as  a  matter  of  information,  wanted  to  know  what 
the  Federated  Press  was. 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  I  don't  wish  to  avoid  discussion  with  you,  but 
under  the  circumstances  and  in  the  context  of  this  committee,  an^l 
with  the  directory  at  hand,  I  see  no  other  possible  answers  that  I  can 
give  you  and  preserve  the  rights  that  I  have  previously  referred  to. 

Mr.  Walter.  What  crime  do  you  think  you  would  be  guilty  of  com- 
mitting or  could  be  prosecuted  for  by  telling  me  what  a  press  service 
or  a  publication  is? 

(  At  this  point  Representative  Clyde  Doyle  returned  to  the  room.) 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  again  I  regret  to  avoid  any  discussion  with  you 
or  exchange  of  opinion,  but  the  same  answer  must  hold  with  regard 
to  my  giving  of  reasons  as  held  with  regard  to  my  answer  to  your 
previous  question,  Congressman. 

Mr.  Walter.  That  is  all. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle? 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Klein,  I  had  to  leave  the  room  a  few  minutes.  I'm 
sorry  1  wasn't  here  to  hear  all  of  your  testimony. 

Mr.  Klein.  That  is  quite  all  right. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  would  like  to  have  had  the  benefit  of  all  your  answers, 
of  course.    But  I  was  particularly  interested  in  the  fact  that  you  had 


1570  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

been  benefited  by  having  such  a  fine  opportunity  for,  shall  I  say, 
schoolroom  or  classroom  or  university  learning  as  contradistinguished 
from  some  of  us  that  haven't  had  that  benefit.  Then  I  noticed  you 
said  you  taught  at  Los  Angeles  City  College  from  1938  to  1941 

Mr.  Klein.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Then  at  El  Camino  Junior  College  for  a  time.  Now, 
what  did  you  instruct  in? 

Mr.  Klein.  Chiefly  in  the  field  of  English  composition  and  litera- 
ture.   I  also  taught  the  German  language. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Are  you  familiar  with  the  Federal  statute  under  which 
this  committee  operates  by  the  instruction  of  the  United  States  Con- 
gress ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  I  believe  I  am  somewhat  familiar  with  it.  I 
probably  am  not  an  expert  on  it. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Give  me  your  opinion  of  what  statute  you  think  we  are 
operating  under  in  this  hearing. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  think  it  would  be  presumptuous  on  my  part  to  give 
you  my  opinion  of  a  statute  which  you  are  already  intimately  ac- 
quainted with. 

(At  this  point  Representative  Francis  E.  Walter  left  the  room.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  I  mean,  Mr.  Klein — I  can  see  you  are  a  greatly 
read  gentleman,  and  I  just  assume  that  you  are  perfectly  familiar, 
or  at  least  generally  familiar,  with  the  wording  of  the  text  of  the 
statute — it  is  very  brief — under  which  we  operate.  I  don't  mean  to 
embarrass  you  at  all. 

Mr.  Klein.  It  is  no  embarrassment.  You  will  please  correct  me.  It 
is  my  understanding  that  the  statute  is  one  that  empowers  this  com- 
mittee to  investigate  and  make  recommendations  regarding  subversive 
activities  in  the  United  States. 

(At  this  point  Representative  Charles  E.  Potter  left  the  room.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Klein.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  would  feel,  I  am  sure,  that  that  is  a  worthy  objec- 
tive and  a  high  purpose  and  a  necessary  purpose,  wouldn't  you? 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes;  I  certainly  do.  In  the  full  sense  of  the  word 
"subversive." 

Mr.  Doyle.  And  in  the  full  sense  of  the  word  "subversive,"  I  sup- 
pose you  agree  with  Mr.  Webster  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  I  am  more  or  less  obliged  to. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Assuming  then  that  you  even  learn  from  him,  the  same 
as  all  the  rest  of  us  do,  I  would  take  an  occasion  to  look  up  the  meaning 
of  the  word  "subversive"  and  the  word  "subvert"  by  Mr.  Webster. 
I  presume  you  haven't  had  occasion  to  look  at  the  meaning  of  the 
word  recently. 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes;  I  have. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  did  you  find? 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  if  I  am  not  mistaken,  it  means  to  undermine  and 
to  ruin  utterly. 

Mr.  Doyle.  That's  right,  and  that  is  only  part  of  the  definition. 
Can  you  give  us  the  balance  of  it,  if  you  remember? 

Mr.  Klein.  I'm  sorry,  I  break  down  at  that  point. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Let  me  add  then,  "to  overturn;  to  overthrow;  to  under- 
mine the  morals,  the  allegiance,  or  the  faith  of;  to  corrupt."  Do  you 
remember  reading  that,  too? 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1571 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  I  recall  from  your  excellent  reading. 

Mr.  Doyle.  This  committee  then  is  primarily  assigned  by  the  United 
States  Congress  to  investigate,  to  uncover,  to  interest  itself  in  these 
subversive  people  and  the  subversive  programs. 

Mr.  Klein.  Are  you  pointing  your  pencil  in  my  direction  ? 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  ;  not  at  all. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  see.    Please  don't. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Not  at  all.  I  have  quite  the  habit,  however,  being  a 
lawyer  and  having  practiced  law  some  25  years  in  a  neighboring  city 
and  the  courts  in  this  city,  and  I  suppose  I  acquired  the  habit  like  your 
own  worthy  council  did  of  emphasizing  before  the  jury  by  appropriate 
manipulations.  So  I  am  pointing  my  pencil  as  I  am ;  I  am  not  pointing 
it  to  you  as  a  subversive  at  all.  However,  may  I  say  to  you,  as  one 
man  to  another,  from  the  evidence  I  have  heard  from  different  parts  of 
the  country,  I  am  under  a  very  firm  conviction,  I  think  as  a  reasonable 
person,  that  the  Communist  Party  in  America  is  subversive,  definitely 
so.  I  see  two  or  three  smiling  at  that  statement,  and  I  can  understand 
it.  But  I  want  to  say  to  you,  sir,  that,  believing  then  as  I  do  that 
the  CommunistParty  is  definitely  subversive,  would  you  think  that  if 
I  believe  that  as  a  member  of  this  committee  that  my  duty  is  to  ask 
you  if  you  are  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  am  sorry;  I  don't  quite  get  the  purport  of  your 
question. 

Mr.  Doyle.  The  purport  of  my  question  is  this 

Mr.  Klein.  Do  I  believe  what  ? 

Mr.  Doyle.  This  committee  is  under  the  firm  conviction  that  the 
Communist  Party  in  the  United  States  is  a  subversive  party  under 
the  definition  of  Mr.  Webster.  And  under  the  text  of  our  assignment 
we  are  designated  to  investigate  subversive  people  and  subversive 
programs.  Wouldn't  you  say  that  it  was  our  duty  under  our  statutes 
to  ask  you,  therefore,  since  we  were  informed  that  you  are  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party,  shouldn't  we  ask  you  very  frankly  here 
in  this  public  session  whether  or  not  you  are  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  You  are  asking  me  to  tell  you  what  you  ought  to  do 
or  ought  not  to  do ;  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Doyle.  Yes.  I  will  ask  you  frankly.  Shouldn't  we  try  to  find 
out  where  subversive  people  are  and  what  their  subversive  programs 
are? 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  in  the  first  place,  I  don't  believe — I  am  not  try- 
ing to  either  advise  you  nor  counsel  you,  but  in  the  first  place  the 
question  which  you  addressed  to  me  is  without  any  basis.  I  do  not 
recall  that  there  has  been  a  question  addressed  to  me  whether  I  am 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  I  will  ask  you  now  whether  or  not  you  are  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Klein.  All  right.  Well,  I  will  give  the  same  answer  that  I 
have  been  obliged  to  give,  and  my  answer,  I  think,  is  illuminated 
by  the  remarks  you  have  just  made.  It  is  quite  obvious  that,  in  the 
view  of  yourself  and  the  committee,  an  answer  to  this  question  might 
involve  me  or  incriminate  me  in  some  incriminating  situation,  and 
consequently  I  feel  that  it  is  my  right  and  also  my  duty  to  refuse 
to  answer. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  of  course,  it  might  involve  you  if,  as  a  matter 
of  fact,  you  have  participated  in  any  subversive  activities  or  programs 

81595 — 51 — pt.  4 11 


1572  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

as  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party.  I  will  grant  you  tliat  is  true. 
No  question  about  that.  You  see,  we  have  had  testimony  before  our 
committee  that  certain  Communist  cells  have  even  discussed  among 
themselves  the  matter  of  getting  arms  and  ammunition  in  parts  of 
this  country  to  participate  in  the  forceful  revolution  which  is  advo- 
cated by  the  Communist  Party.  Have  you  ever  heard  of  that  being 
advocated  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Have  I  ever  heard  of  what  being  advocated? 

Mr.  Doyle.  The  forceful  revolution  by  the  Communist  Party  in 
the  United  States. 

Mr.  Klein.  Have  I  ever  heard  the  Communist  Party  advocating 
forceful  revolution  in  the  United  States  ? 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  I  will  leave  the  question  the  way  you  asked  it. 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  I  am  trying  to — excuse  me.  1  am  not  trying  to 
ask  you  questions.  I  am  just  trying  to  understand  what  it  is  that  I 
am  to  answer. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  I  will  repeat  it,  simplify  my  question.  This  com- 
mittee has  had  unimpeachable  evidence  before  it  that  in  some  parts  of 
the  country  Communist  cells  exist  in  which  it  has  been  frankly  dis- 
cussed by  the  members  thereof  of  ways  and  means  of  getting  posses- 
sion of  arms  and  ammunition  to  use  when  and  if  the  revolution  against 
the  capitalist  class  came.  Now,  I  assume  you  are  a  reasonable  Amer- 
ican citizen 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  I  have  read  magazine  articles  containing  that 
material. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Have  you  ever  heard  that  discussed  in  the  Communist 
meetings  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  grounds  that  this  ob- 
viously is  a  question  designed  to  entrap  me  into  a  situation  that  is 
absolutely  untenable.  I  can't  answer  a  question  of  that  sort  without 
subjecting  myself  to  the  very  kind  of  incrimination  that  k  is  my 
right  and  duty  to  avoid. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Of  course,  I  fail  to  see  how  a  frank  statement  of  what- 
ever the  fact  may  be  by  any  witness  before  this  committee  is  going 
to  involve  him  in  prosecution  unless,  as  a  matter  of  fact,  his  rela- 
tionship to  the  Communist  Party  was  such  that  he  actually  had 
been  involved  in  a  subversive  program.  Under  the  definition  that 
you  read  by  Mr.  Webster  and  which  I  wrote  out  for  you,  do  you  see 
any  involvement  of  a  witness  before  this  committee  of  possible  fear 
of  incrimination  unless  he  has  been  engaged  in  subversive  conduct? 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  this  is  an  answer  to — this  is  a  hypothetical 
and  speculative  question.  I  would  like  to  ask  my  counsel's  advice 
before  answering  it.  It  seems  to  me  it  would  be  going  utterly  out- 
side of  my  realm  to  answer  it. 

(Witness  consults  counsel.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  I  want  you  to  consult  your  counsel. 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  This  committee  is  always  glad  to  have  counsel  present. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  believe  that  in  view  of  the  general  context  and  the 
time,  I  must  decline  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  of  course,  you  heard  our  distinguished  chairman 
say  that  you  must  not  do  anything  before  this  committee. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  apologize.  I  decline — I  respectfully  decline  to  an- 
swer on  the  grounds  I  have  already  given. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1573 

Mr.  Doyle.  That  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson? 

Mr.  Jackson.  During  the  period  of  your  employment,  Mr.  Klein, 
with  the  United  Automobile  Workers,  as  a  part  of  that  employment 
as  a  representative  of  the  national  publication  of  the  United  Air- 
craft Workers,  called,  I  believe,  the  Aircraft  Worker,  were  you  in 
any  way  connected  with  the  publication  of  the  Aircraft  Worker? 

Mr.  Klein.  I  don't  know  of  any  publication  under  that  name. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Were  you  connected  with  any  publication  of  the 
United  Automobile  Workers  having  to  do  either  with  the  automobile 
end  of  the  business  or  of  the  aircraft  end  of  the  union  activities? 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  for  a  short  time  I  was  connected  with  the  techni- 
cal preparation  of  a  weekly  newspaper  or  news  sheet  known  as  UAW 
News. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Where  was  that,  Mr.  Klein? 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  that  was  here  in  this  area. 

Mr.  Jackson.  In  the  Los  Angeles  area  ? 

Mr.  Klein.  Yes.  I  am  sorry.  Your  question  referred  to  the  na- 
tional Detroit  publication? 

Mr.  Jackson.  My  original  question 

Mr.  Klein.  Oh,  I  see.    Well,  I  misunderstood  you. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Was  directed  toward  the  national  publication. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  see. 

Mr.  Jackson.  But  you  were  connected  with  the  local  publication 
here  in  Los  Angeles? 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  yes;  in  a  technical,  editorial  way. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  further  questions  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.  I  failed  to  call  to  your  attention,  Mr.  Klein, 
that  two  witnesses  who  appeared  here  before  the  committee  yesterday 
identified  you  and  your  wife  as  members  of  a  cell  of  the  Communist 
Party  here  in  Hollywood.  I  want  to  give  you  the  opportunity  to 
either  deny  or  affirm  that  statement,  or  make  any  explanation  that 
you  desire  to  make. 

Mr.  Klein.  I  see.     Who  were  those  witnesses,  please? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Harold  Ashe  and  his  wife — former  wife — Mrs. 
Mildred  Ashe. 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  on  the  grounds  that  it  might  tend  to  degrade  me 
and  to  incriminate  me,  I  decline  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  like  to  point  out  that  the  question  of  deg- 
radation is  no  defense  whatsoever  to  the  failure  to  answer  a  ques- 
tion as  decided  in  Walker  against  Brown  by  the  United  States  Su- 
preme Court  many  years  ago,  and  if  that  is  the  ground  for  your  re- 
fusal, I  ask  the  chairman  to  demand  that  you  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  Klein.  Well,  I  will  state  it  simply,  then,  that  I  refuse  to  answer 
on  the  ground  of  the  rights  assured  me  under  the  fifth  amendment 
to  the  Constitution. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Do  you  have  one  other  question  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  no  further  questions  but  I  be- 
lieve that  inasmuch  as  there  have  been  inferences  and  counter-infer- 
ences which  bear  upon  the  United  Auto  Workers  and  this  committee, 
that  it  should  be  said  that  the  CIO,  itself,  has  taken  very  strong- 
measures  toward  ridding  itself  of  Communist  influence,  and  in  the 


1574  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

course  of  that  activity  expelled  a  number  of  CIO  unions  which  re- 
fused to  purge  themselves  of  Communist  leadership.  I  should  also 
like  to  say  that  in  the  course  of  the  Baltimore  hearings,  this  com- 
mittee was  the  recipient  of  an  expression  of  support  from  organized 
labor  within  the  Sparrows  Point  plant.  I  think  that  there  should 
certainly  be  left  in  the  minds  of  the  audience  or  the  minds  of  the 
listeners  no  connotation  of  any  activity  by  this  committee  against 
those  elements  of  organized  labor  which  are  American  in  their  activ- 
ities. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  why  this  witness  shouldn't  be  excused  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  So  ordered,  and  the  committee  will  stand  in  recess  until 
10  o'clock  in  the  morning. 

(Whereupon  at  the  hour  of  5 :  10  p.  m.,  an  adjournment  was  taken 
until  10  a.  m.  of  the  following  day.) 


COMMUNIST  INFILTRATION  OF  HOLLYWOOD  MOTION 
PICTURE  INDUSTRY— Part  4 


WEDNESDAY,   SEPTEMBER    19,    1951 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 
Subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Los  Angeles,  Calif. 

PUBLIC  HEARING 

A  subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  met 
pursuant  to  adjournment  at  10  a.  m.  in  room  518,  Federal  Building, 
Los  Angeles,  Calif.,  Hon.  John  S.  Wood  (chairman)  presiding. 

Committee  members  present :  Representatives  John  S.  Wood  (chair- 
man), Francis  E.  Walter,  Clyde  Doyle.  Donald  L.  Jackson,  Charles 
E.  Potter. 

Staff  members  present:  Frank  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  counsel;  Thomas 
W.  Beale,  Sr.,  assistant  counsel;  Louis  J.  Russell,  senior  investigator; 
William  A.  Wheeler,  investigator;  and  John  W.  Carrington,  clerk. 

Mr.  Wood.  Let  the  committee  be  in  order. 

Let  the  record  show  that  there  is  present  of  the  subcommittee  Mr. 
Walter  of  Pennsylvania,  Mr.  Doyle  of  California.  Mr.  Jackson  of 
California,  Mr.  Potter  of  Michigan,  and  Mr.  Wood  of  Georgia,  con- 
stituting the  full  subcommittee. 

Mr.  Counsel,  are  you  ready  to  proceed  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Who  will  you  have  first? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Martin  Berkeley. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  Mr.  Martin  Berkeley  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  am,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  raise  your  right  hand  and  be  sworn.  Do  you 
solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  give  this  subcommittee  shall  be 
the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Berkeley,  are  you  represented  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  am,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  counsel  please  identify  himself  for  the  record. 

Mr.  Williams.  My  name  is  Edward  Bennett  Williams,  of  Wash- 
ington, D.  C,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Berkeley,  during  the  progress  of  your  interrogation 
you  will  be  permitted  at  any  time  you  desire  to  confer  with  your 
counsel  and  counsel  will  be  permitted  to  confer  with  you  as  often  as 
he  desires  and  give  you  the  benefit  of  any  advice,  information,  or 
suggestion  that  he  deems  appropriate. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Thank  you,  sir. 

1575 


1576  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

TESTIMONY  OF  MARTIN  BERKELEY,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HIS 
COUNSEL,  EDWARD  BENNETT  WILLIAMS 

Mr.  Wood.  In  this  connection  I  would  like  to  state  that  it  has  been 
the  policy  of  this  committee 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Excuse  me,  Mr.  Chairman.  I  understand  the  am- 
plification system  is  not  operating.  The  press  sitting  immediately  be- 
hind me  are  unable  to  hear  anything. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Counsel,  you  may  proceed. 

Mr.  Williams.  Mr.  Chairman,  if  I  may,  sir,  before  this  witness 
begins  his  testimony  I  would  like  to  call  one  matter  to  the  attention  of 
the  chair  and  counsel,  which  I  think  the  subcommittee  should  know 
about.  Mr.  Berkeley  last  night  received  a  phone  call  at  his  home  in 
Pacoima,  Calif.,  threatening  him  and  his  family  if  he  appeared  here 
today  and  gave  evidence  disclosing  names  of  members  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  which  had  not  been  known  or  disclosed  prior  to  this 
session.  This  was  the  third  of  such  phone  calls  that  the  witness  has 
received  in  the  course  of  the  past  week.  The  Federal  Bureau  of 
Investigation  has  been  advised  of  these. 

I  call  this  to  the  attention  of  the  subcommittee  at  this  time  to  ask 
and  enlist  the  aid  of  the  subcommittee  in  bending  every  effort  and 
influence  that  it  has  to  protect  this  witness  from  any  reprisals  or 
sanctions  that  may  be  visited  upon  him.  I  have  called  this  to  the 
attention  of  counsel,  also,  for  the  committee  last  night. 

Mr.  Wood.  The  full  forces  and  power  of  the  American  Government 
will  be  utilized  to  protect  this  or  any  other  witness  who  appears  before 
this  committee  to  give  testimony  in  connection  with  its  operations. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  there  has  been  no  subpena  issued  for 
this  witness,  but  in  light  of  the  situation  which  has  just  developed  I 
suggest  that  a  subpena  be  issued  and  that  this  witness  be  kept  under 
subpena  for  a  period  of  time. 

Mr.  Wood.  It  will  be  so  directed. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  suggest  that  merely  as  a  protection  to  the  witness. 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  I  understand. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  your  full  name,  please,  sir. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  My  name  is  Martin  Berkeley,  B-e-r-k-e-1-e-v. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Berkeley? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  was  born  in  Brooklyn,  New  York,  August  21, 1904. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  do  you  now  reside  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  At  13208  Wentworth  Street,  Pacoima,  Calif. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  California? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Since  January  1937. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  for  the  committee,  please,  in  a 
general  way  what  your  educational  background  has  been  ( 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  went  to  the  public  schools  of  New  York  City.  I 
attended  Brooklyn  Boys'  High  School  and  Dickenson  High  School 
in  Jersey  City,  from  which  I  graduated.  I  went  to  John  Hopkins 
University  and  Columbia  Extension  School. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  profession? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  am  a  screen  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  to  the  committee  briefly  what 
your  experience  as  a  screen  writer  has  been  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  I  have  been  a  screen  writer  since  1937.  I 
have  done  18  or  20  pictures.     My  employment,  for  the  most  part, 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1577 

has  been  in  two  studios.  I  was  employed  almost  without  interrup- 
tion for  10  years  by  Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer  and  Twentieth  Century- 
Fox.  At  Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer  I  wrote  the  Dr.  Gillespie  pictures 
which  followed  the  Dr.  Kildaires.  At  Twentieth  Century-Fox  I 
wrote  Shock,  Smokey,  Green  Grass  of  Wyoming,  a  picture  called 
Sand,  and  Kangaroo,  which  is  still  to  be  released.  It  was  made  in  Aus- 
tralia. I  have  a  picture  going  into  production  within  the  next  10 
days  at  Universal  called  Great  Companions  with  Dan  Dailey  in 
Technicolor,  and  that  is  all  that  have  been  made. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Prior  to  your  entrance  into  the  field  of  screen  writ- 
ing what  was  your  record  of  employment,  briefly  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  After  I  left  college  I  went  into  business  for  a  short 
time.  I  became  an  actor.  I  then  started  to  write,  had  two  plays 
produced  on  Broadway.  After  the  first  play  I  was  brought  out  here, 
in  January  of  1937,  by  Columbia  Pictures. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Berkeley,  are  you  appearing  here  in  response 
to  a  subpena  of  this  committee  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  No,  sir.  I  am  here  as  a  voluntary  witness  to  co- 
operate fully  with  this  committee  and  give  this  committee  and  the 
country  all  the  help  that  I  can.  In  April  my  name  was  mentioned 
by  cooperative  witness  Richard  Collins,  and  I  sent  a  very  silly  tele- 
gram to  the  committee  after  I  received  that  wire.  I  charged  Mr. 
Collins  with  perjury  and  said  I  had  never  been  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party,  which  was  not  true.  I  was  not  at  that  time  a 
member  and  have  not  been  for  many  years.  Why  I  sent  the  telegram — 
I  did  it  in  a  moment  of  panic  and  was  a  damn  fool. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Since  that  time  you  have  determined  that  you  will 
aid  this  committee  in  every  possible  way  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.  Since  1913  I  have  consistently  fought  the 
Communists  in  this  town. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Because  of  your  experiences  both  within  and  with- 
out the  Communist  Party  in  the  Hollywood  area,  do  you  consider 
that  you  are  in  a  position  to  give  this  committee  needed  information  ? 
Mr.  Berkeley.  I  think  so,  sir ;  very  much  so. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  believe  we  should  start  back  with  your  original 
entry  into  the  Communist  Party.  Will  you  tell  us  where  that 
occurred  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  In  1936  in  New  York  City,  shortly  before  the  elec- 
tion, an  old  friend  of  mine,  Mr.  Fuller,  who  was  a  director  in  the 
theater,  knew  that  I  was  very  much  interested  in  the  anti-Nazi — 
anti-Fascist  movement;  that  I  was  interested  in  the  growing  trade- 
union  movement  of  the  country,  suggested  that  I  go  to  a  meeting 
with  him. 

I  did.  The  meeting  was  held  at  Fourteenth  Street  and  Seventh 
Avenue  on  the  second  floor.  There  was  a  sign  on  the  windows  of  the 
building  in  which  the  meeting  was  held.  That  was  called  the  Patrick 
Henry  Club. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  that  in  the  city  of  New  York? 
Mr.  Berkeley.  That  was  in  the  city  of  New  York.  There  were 
many  speakers  that  night,  much  talk  about  the  election.  I  discovered 
that  it  was  a  Communist  Party  meeting.  I  did  not  join  that  night. 
Iwent  back  the  following  week,  listened  some  more,  played  some 
ping-pong  there  and  joined  the  party. 


1578  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  assigned  to  any  particular  club  at  that 
time? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Or  unit  of  the  party  % 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  was  kept  in  that  particular  Patrick  Henry  Club 
of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  the  names  of  any  of  the  other  members 
of  that  group  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  do,  sir.  The  chairman  of  our  group,  which,  at 
the  time  I  joined,  we  had  about  75  members  and  within  6  weeks  we 
had  approximately  175  members  and  it  then  split  up  and  took  some 
more  loft  buildings,  but  the  head  of  the  group  was  Jim  Thompson, 
who  was  either  a  brother  or  a  cousin  of  Robert  Thompson,  one  of  the 
convicted  top  Communists.  Also  in  the  group  was  Isadore  Schneider, 
editor  and  contributor  to  New  Masses.  William  Browder,  who  was 
a  brother  of  Earl  Browder.  A  man  named  Les  Abenson,  who  at  that 
time  was  a  screen  reader  and  who  is  now  a  very  well  known  Broad- 
way producer.  I  will  say  that  most  of  the  members  of  the  group  were 
workingmen.  There  were  just  a  handful  of  intellectuals  or  artists  in 
this  particular  group. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  While  a  member  of  that  group  were  you  instructed 
or  advised  to  join  any  organizations? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.  I  believe  at  that  time  I  joined  the  League 
of  American  Writers,  if  that  was  the  name  at  that  time.  It  had  so 
many  names  and  it  has  been  so  many  years  ago  I  don't  recall.  But  it 
was  either  the  League  of  American  Writers  or  the  name  before  it  or 
the  name  after  it.  I  was  also — at  that  time  I  had  a  play  in  New  York, 
but  I  was  employed  in  the  story  department  of  several  studios,  par- 
ticularly at  Paramount  as  a  screen  reader. 

The  readers  were  very  badly  paid  and  they  were  kicked  around  and 
we  had  a  just  grievance,  we  wanted  more  money.  They  were  paying 
us  $2  a  script  then  to  read  a  script  and  make  a  synopsis,  which  might 
take  as  much  as  4  or  5  hours.  Along  with  the  other  members  of  the 
party,  on  instruction  of  V.  J.  Jerome,  we  organized  the  Screen  Readers' 
Guild  in  New  York.  At  a  later  date  a  member  of  the  Screen  Readers' 
Guild,  the  president,  Lee  Sabinson,  came  to  Hollywood  and  established 
a  branch  of  the  Screen  Readers'  Guild  out  here.  The  offspring  of  it 
today  is  the  Screen  Analysts'  Guild. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  give  us  the  names  of  any  other  persons  who 
were  members  of  the  Screen  Readers'  Guild  which  you  joined  in  the 
city  of  New  York? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  there  was  Lee  Sabinson,  I  mentioned  him. 

He  was  the  head  of  it.    A  man  named  Eddie  Huebsch 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  mean,  in  asking  you  that,  I  want  to  know  who 
were  members  of  that  organization  known  to  you  to  be  members  of 
the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.    There  was  Lee  Sabinson,  whom  I  have 

mentioned  previously.     Sabinson 

Mr.  Tavenner.  May  I  ask  you  to  spell  the  name,  please. 
Mr.  Berkeley.  His  name  is  Lee,  L-e-e,  S-a-b-i-n-s-o-n. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  I  think  it  would  be  helpful  if  you  would  spell  all 
of  these  names  as  you  mention  them  the  first  time. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Thank  you,  sir.  Lee  was  the  president  of  the  Screen 
Readers'  Guild.     On  his  return  from  Hollywood  he  enlisted  in  the 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1579 

Abraham  Lincoln  Brigade,  was  sent  to  Spain,  got  as  far  as  Paris, 
changed  his  mind  and  came  back  and  became  a  screen  reader  again.  I 
haven't  seen  Mr.  Sabinson  since  1936,  or  thereabouts.  I  may  possibly 
have  bumped  into  him  in  New  York  on  a  visit  but  I  can't  recall  it. 

Another  member  of  the  group  was  a  man  who  is  at  present  a  screen 
writer  in  Hollywood  and  one  of  the  most  vociferous  Communists  we 
have  in  our  guild.  His  name  is  Edward  Huebsch,  H-u-e-b-s-c-h.  I 
don't  know  much  about  Mr.  Huebsch  except  he  is  a  Communist  and 
a  troublemaker. 

Also  in  the  group  was  a  man  named  Nicholas  Bela,  B-e-l-a,  a  Hun- 
garian, who  had  been  in  the  revolution  in  Hungary  with  Bela  Kun. 

We  received  a  great  deal  of  cooperation  at  that  time  in  the  organi- 
zation of  the  Screen  Readers'  Guild  from  Eve  Ettinger,  who  at  that 
time  was  an  assistant  in  the  story  department  at  Columbia  and  who 
today  is  the  story  editor  of  that  studio.  I  had  talks  with  Miss  Ettinger 
at  a  later  date  when  I  was  in  New  York  and  Miss  Ettinger  told  me 
that  she  had  left  the  party,  and  I  have  every  reason  to  believe  that 
she  was  telling  me  the  truth. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  call  to  your  attention  the  fact 
that  Eve  Ettinger,  the  person  identified  just  now  by  the  witness,  ap- 
peared a  few  weeks  ago  in  executive  session  of  this  committee  and 
admitted  her  Communist  Party  membership  and  at  the  time  indicated 
and  stated,  also,  that  she  had  withdrawn  from  the  party. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  believe  she  has,  from  every  possible  indication. 

Through  the  work  with  the  Screen  Readers'  Guild,  and  in  order  to 
publicize  the  work  that  we  were  doing,  V.  J.  Jerome,  who  was  in 
charge  of  the  cultural  work  of  the  Communist  Party,  put  me  in  touch 
with  a  man  named  Herbert  Klein,  K-1-e-i-n,  who  then  was  the  editor 
or  one  of  the  editors  of  New  Theater  magazine.  Later  he  made  many 
excellent  documentary  films  and  after  quarreling  with  the  party  po- 
litically was  expelled  from  the  party,  and  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge 
and  belief  is  no  longer  a  party  member. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Berkeley,  were  you  present  in  the  hearing 
room  at  the  close  of  the  session  yesterday  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  No,  sir.    This  is  the  first  time  I  have  been  here. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  did  not  see  the  Herbert  Klein  who  testified 
before  the  committee  yesterday? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  No,  sir.    Is  he  a  movie  director  or  a  picture  writer?* 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  do  you  spell  the  name  Klein,  the  person  to 
whom  you  refer  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  believe  his  name  is  spelled  K-1-e-i-n  or  K-1-i-n-e. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  give  us  further  identifying  information 
relating  to  the  Herbert  Klein  to  whom  you  refer  as  having  been  a 
member  of  this  group  in  New  York  City  in  1936  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Counsel,  it's  14  years  since  I  have  seen  Mr.  Klein. 
I  met  him  organizationally  twice  and  I  haven't  seen  him  since.  I 
would  hate  to  hang  a  man  on  identification  like  that.  As  I  remember 
him,  he  was  dark,  of  medium  height.  Both  times  I  saw  him  he  wore 
a  dark  suit.  *\ 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  before  me  the  morning  paper  which  has  a 
photograph  of  the  witness  Herbert  Klein  who  appeared  before  the 
committee  yesterday. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  May  I  see  it,  sir  % 


1580  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  like  for  you  to  look  at  it.  You  may  look 
at  it  and  see  if  it  is  the  Herbert  Klein  to  whom  you  have  referred. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  No,  sir,  that  is  not  the  Herbert  Klein  to  whom  I 
refer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  mentioned  the  fact  that  V.  J.  Jerome  gave  you 
certain  instructions  and  directions.  When  did  you  first  meet  V.  J. 
Jerome  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  I  would  say  I  met  Jerome  about  a  week  after 
I  joined  the  party.  The  party  was  very  anxious  to  contact  anybody 
in  the  motion-picture  business  and  I  presume  that  when  I  filled  out 
my  application  and  gave  my  occupation  that  the  card  was  filtered 
through  the  center  to  Jerome,  or  possibly  Bill  Browder,  or  Isadore 
Schneider,  who  was  a  writer,  may  have  told  Jerome.  But  all  I  know 
is  that  I  was  sent  for  and  I  met  Jerome  some  place  in  Greenwich 
Village.    I  don't  know  what  street  it  was,  I  don't  know  the  address. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  While  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  in  New 
York  City  did  you  become  acquainted  with  John  Howard  Lawson? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  did.  I  met  Lawson  at  a  meeting  with  V.  J.  He 
was  introduced  to  me  as  a  nonparty  member.  I  was  told  that  he  was 
very  sympathetic  with  our  aims  and  was  very  interested  in  seeing 
the  Screen  Readers'  Guild  grow  and  prosper,  but  that  in  spite  of  the 
fact  that  he  was  referred  to  as  Comrade  Lawson  he  was  not  a  party 
member.    Subsequently  I  learned  that  that  was  untrue. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  what  position  V.  J.  Jerome  held  in 
the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  believe  his  title  was  chairman  or  commissar  of  the 
Cultural  Commission  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  year  in  which  you  came  to  Holly- 
wood ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  1937,  approximately  the  15th  of  January. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  After  coming  to  Hollywood  did  you  continue  your 
affiliation  with  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  did,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  to  the  committee  the  circumstances 
under  which  you  continued  your  Communist  Part}^  membership. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  it  sounds  a  little  bit  like  a  B  picture.  Lester 
Fuller,  whom  I  had  known  for  many,  many  years  before  I  joined  the 
party,  when  he  discovered  I  was  coming  to  Hollywood  and  didn't  know 
many  people  out  here,  suggested  that  I  contact  a  man  named  Guy 
Endore,  who  was  not  a  party  member,  and  Guy  Endore  would  intro- 
duce me  around  town  and  see  that  I  met  people.  The  third  day  I  was 
in  Hollywood  I  was  assigned  to  a  picture  and  lo  and  behold  Guy 
Endore  wasmy  collaborator.  It  was  through  Guy  Endore,  who  then 
was  not  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  but  subsequently  was,  that 
I  was  invited  to  a  meeting  at  the  home  of  Frank  and  Sonia  Tuttle. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  what  Frank  Tuttle  is  that? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That  is  Frank  Tuttle,  the  director. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes.  I  understand  there  is  more  than  one  Frank 
Tuttle,  also. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  this  is  my  friend,  Frank  Tuttle,  who  testified 
in  Washington. 


.w< 


Mr.  Tavenner.  And  a  director? 
Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1581 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well,  sir. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  There  were  approximately  50  people  at  Mr.  Tuttle  s 
home,  party  people  and  nonparty  people,  and  at  this  gathering  I  met 
V.  J.  Jerome  again,  and  he  was  delivering  a  lecture  that  night  on 
Trotskyism. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  of  your  own  knowledge  the  circum- 
stances under  which  V.  J.  Jerome  was  sent  to  Hollywood  or  came  to 
Hollywood  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Jerome  was  sent  to  Hollywood  to  organize  Holly- 
wood, to  organize  the  talent  groups,  the  actors,  the  directors,  and  so 
forth,  writers,  and  to  give  what  aid  and  assistance  out  of  his  long 
experience  he  could  to  the  groups  in  the  IATSE. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  the  functions  that  V.  J. 
Jerome  performed  in  carrying  out  that  objective? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  V.  J.  addressed  many  meetings  of  party  and 
nonparty  people.  He  spoke  on  such  matters  as  Spain,  on  Hitlerism, 
on  Mussolini,  on  the  labor  situation  ;  he  spoke  of  the  role  of  writers  in 
the  changing  world ;  he  made  many  such  speeches  and  many  such  con- 
tacts with  people.  He  was  a  rather  diffident  person  when  you  met  him 
and  people  liked  Jerome.  He  was  able  to  contact  a  number  of  people, 
recruit  people  to  the  party,  gain  financial  support  from  people,  I 
believe,  who  never  became  party  members  but  were  angels  for  many, 
many  years,  and  I  wish  I  knew  who  they  were.  He  did  a  thoroughly 
good  job.     His  job  was  so  good  that  we  are  all  here  today  because  of  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  as  a  result  of  his  work  what  occurred? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  As  a  result  of  the  work  that  was  done  by  Jerome, 
groups  of  actors  were  enlisted  in  the  current  squabble  that  was  going 
on  at  the  guild,  inside  the  Screen  Actors'  Guild. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  before  we  come  to  a  discussion  of  that,  can  you 
give  us  the  names  of  persons  known  to  you  at  the  time,  persons  who 
later  were  known  to  you,  to  be  members  of  the  Communist  Party  who 
attended  this  first  meeting  at  the  home  of  Frank  Tuttle  which  was 
being  addressed  by  V.  J.  Jerome  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  There  were  approximately  50  people  at  the  meeting. 
Looking  back  on  the  meeting  I  would  say  that  approximately  20  of 
these  people  were  later  revealed  to  me  in  fractions  or  in  party  groups 
as  members  of  the  Communist  Party. 

One  of  the  most  active  there  was  John  Bright,  a  screen  writer  whose 
wife,  Josephine  Bright,  was  an  organizer  in  the  Mexican  section  of 
this  community. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  his  last  name,  please. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  B-r-i-g-h-t.  John  Bright.  His  wife's  name  was 
Josephine  Bright.  I  also  met  for  the  first  time  Lionel  Stander,  who 
later  became  chairman  of  the  actors'  fraction.  With  him  was  his 
wife — his  then  wife,  Alice  Twitchell.  It  is  interesting  to  know  that 
sometime  later  during  the  strike  at  the  Hollywood  Citizen  News,  for 
which  I  gave  a  benefit  at  my  home  for  the  striking  newspapermen, 
at  which  we  raised  approximately  a  thousand  dollars,  I  believe,  to  help 
the  newspaper  Guild,  and  I  am  very  proud  that  we  did,  Stander  was 
at  this  meeting  and  called  me  over  into  a  corner  and  introduced  me  to 
Comrade  Harry  Bridges. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  refer  to  Stander  as  the  chairman  of  the  actors' 
fraction,  if  I  understood  you  correctly. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir. 


1582  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Bv  fraction,  what  do  Ton  mean? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  a  fraction  is  a  group  of  party  members — now, 
there  were  two  kinds  of  fractions.  There  is  an  open  fraction  and 
there  is  a  closed  fraction.  When  I  use  the  word  "fraction"  from  now 
on,  I  mean  a  closed  fraction  at  which  only  party  members  are  admitted. 
The  fraction  is  composed  of  Communists  who  have  a  common  interest 
either  in  a  mass  organization  in  which  they  are  functioning  or  a 
trade-union,  a  political  party  or  such  like.  There  were  fractions  of 
the  actors,  fractions  of  the  writers,  I  presume  fractions  of  the  direc- 
tors, though  I  have  no  knowledge  of  that ;  fractions  in  the  Hollywood 
Anti-Nazi  League  and  other  front  organizations. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  in  short,  it  meant  membership  in  the  Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.  J.  Edward  Bromberg  and  his  wife, 
Goldie — Bromberg  is  spelled  B-r-o-m-b-e-r-g;  he  is  an  actor — were 
also  at  the  meeting.  Present  was  Miss  Madelaine  Ruthven,  R-u-t-h- 
v-e-n,  who  later  became  organizational  secretary  for  the  Hollywood 
section;  an  actor  named  Victor  Killian,  K-i-1-l-i-a-n. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  that  the  same  person  that  testified  before  the 
Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  in  Washington  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  believe  it  is,  sir.     I  believe  so. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  possibly  should  have  said,  who  appeared  before 
the  committee. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  realize  that.  Also  present  was  Don  Gordon,  an 
assistant  story  editor,,  I  believe,  at  the  time  at  one  of  the  studios;  I 
think  RKO.  I  am  not  sure.  Pie  is  here  now.  Perhaps  he  can  tell 
you  later.     Lou  Harris  was  there. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  some  of  the  persons  present  at  this  meeting, 
I  understand,  were  not  members  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That's  right,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  want  to  make  it  clear  that  I  am  asking  you  to 
name  those  who  were  members  of  the  Communist  Party,  to  your 
knowledge. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  will  not  mention  a  name  unless  I 
am  dead  certain  that  this  person  was  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party,  because  I  am  not  going  to  hang  anybody  that  doesn't  deserve  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Then  Donald  Gordon,  I  understand  from  vour 
testimony 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Don  Gordon. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Don  Gordon  was  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party,  to  your  knowledge? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.  I  met  with  him  with  the  Screen  Writers 
Guild.  I  attended  a  meeting  of  the  Screen  Writers  Guild  at  which  I 
met  Don  Gordon,  and,  subsequently,  later  met  him  at  the  meetings  of 
the  writers'  fraction.     Also 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  may  proceed. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Also  there  was  Lou  Harris  and  his  wife,  Vera.  Lou 
later  became  a  producer  at  Paramount.  His  name  is  spelled  H-a-r- 
r-i-s.  Herbert  Biberman — I  think  you  know  how  to  spell  that  name — 
the  director,  was  there  with  his  wife,  Gale  Sondergaard,  as  well  as 
Sonja  Dahl,  who,  I  believe,  then  was  D-a-h-1,  Dahl;  I  don't  know 
whether  she  spells  Sonja  with  a  "y"  or  an  "i".  She  was  then  secretary, 
I  believe,  of  the  Hollywood  Anti-Nazi  League  and  later,  I  think, 
married  Herbert  Biberman's  brother,  Edward  Biberman,  and  Edward 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1583 

Biberman  was  one  of  the  organizers  of  the  artists'  union,  which  was 
part  of  the  WPA  art  project.  Those  are  all  the  people  I  can  re- 
member at  that  meeting. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  mentioned  the  name  of  Lionel  Stander. 
Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  ever  attend  a  Communist  Party  meeting  in 
his  home  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  did,  sir.  There  was  a  meeting  called  at  the  home 
of  Stander  at  which  V.  J.  Jerome  was  present  that  dealt  with  the  mat- 
ter of  the  struggle  then  going  on  in  the  Screen  Actors'  Guild.  I  don't 
know  how  familiar  you  are  with  that  struggle.  I  am  very  happy  to 
say  that  the  situation  no  longer  exists. 

(At  this  time  Representative  Francis  E.  Walter  entered  the  room.) 
Mr.  Berkeley.  At  that  time  the  extras  had  no  vote  in  the  guild. 
They  Mere  second-class  citizens,  and  the  Communist  Party,  whether 
for  altruistic  purposes  or  whether  because  the  ranks  of  the  extras  were 
proven  to  be  more  fertile  field  than  among  the  more  successful  mem- 
bers of  the  profession  I  am  not  prepared  to  say,  felt  that  the  extras 
should  be  given  some  kind  of  a  vote  in  the  Actors'  Guild.  Well,  today 
the  extras  are  in  their  own  guild  and  that  situation  is  taken  care  of. 
At  this  fraction  meeting — let  me  explain  how  I  got  to  an  actors'  meet- 
ing. Jerome  knew  me  from  New  York  and  he  felt  I  was  a  fairly  force- 
ful person  and  got  along  pretty  well  with  people,  and  he  said,  "I  think 
you  better  get  in  there  and  help  for  a  while  and  keep  your  eye  on 
Stander.     He  is  a  screwball,"  which  he  is. 

Elliot  Sullivan  was  at  that  meeting.  He  is  also  known  as  Ely  Sulli- 
van.    I  don't  know  whether  he  spells  his  name  S-u-1-l-i-v-a-n  or 

-a-v-a-n.     Allen  Matthews 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  what  is  his  occupation? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  He  is  an  actor.  All  these  people  were  actors,  Mr. 
Tavenner.  Allen  Matthews,  a  small  part  actor,  was  present.  He  later 
became  very  active  politically  and  received  an  appointment  by  the 
State  administration  to  the  extermination  committee  in  charge  of 
exterminating  bugs. 

Dorothy  Tree,  an  actress,  was  also  present,  as  was  Marc  Lawrence, 
and  a  young  actor  known  as  Maurice  Murphy. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  the  Marc  Lawrence  to  whom  you  refer  there  the 
same  person  who  appeared  before  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities  in  Washington  and  admitted  his  former  Communist 
membership  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That  is  the  same  Marc  Lawrence.  I  am  very  happy 
he  admitted  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who,  in  describing  the  circumstances  under  which 
he  became  a  member,  stated  that  he  was  recruited  into  the  party  with 
the  aid  of  Lionel  Stander. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That's  right,  sir.  I  believe  that  is  completely  cor- 
rect.   You  see,  Stander  at  that  time  was  about  the  only  so-called  name 

that  the  party  had  in  the  profession.     Those  were 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  the  early  part  of  your  testimony  relating  to,  I 
believe,  the  New  York  episode  of  your  membership,  you  referred  to 
an  organization  by  initials.  It  has  been  called  to  my  attention  that 
you  did  not  state  the  exact  name  and  I  would  like  for  you  to  do  it. 
You  referred  to  the  IATSE.  I  would  like  for  the  record  to  show  the 
full  name. 


1584  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That  is  the  International  Alliance  of  Theatrical 
and  Stage  Employees,  I  believe. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  If  you  have  occasion  to  refer  to  it  again  it  will  be 
proper  to  refer  to  it  by  the  initials. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Thank  you,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  I  wanted  the  record  to  show  at  least  once  what 
it  is.     I  believe  I  interrupted  you  as  you  were  about 

Mr.  Berkeley.  No.     I  was  all  through  with  the  actors'  fraction. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  the  course  of  your  membership  in  the  Communist 
Party  did  you  become  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name  of  Matt 
Pel  lm  a  n? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  did,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  he  also  known  as  Mike  Pell  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  He  was  Matt  Pelhnan,  Mike  Pell,  and  Max  Apple- 
man  or  Applebaum.  He  was  a  professional  party  organizer  who  had 
been  sent  to  the  west  coast  to  assist  V.  J.  Jerome  and  had  done  much 
party  work  in  Hawaii  and  China.  He  was  later  expelled  from  the 
party  after  a  very  bitter  struggle  and  has  become  a  very  stanch 
antiparty  man. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  have  occasion  to  meet  him  here  in  Cali- 
fornia ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Oh,  yes,  sir.  I  met  him  with  V.  J.  Jerome.  We 
used  to  chauffeur  him  around  quite  a  bit. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  enlighten  the  committee  as  to  the  reason 
for  Mike  Pell's  presence  in  California? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  he  was  sent  here  to  help  Jerome  organize 
Hollywood.  There  was  a  lot  of  territory  to  cover  and  a  lot  of  work 
to  do,  and  Mike  Pell,  which  was  the  name  I  usually  knew  him  by,  was 
a  very  hard  worker.  He  did  more  of  the  leg  work.  Jerome  did  more 
of  the  talking  and  sitting  up  nights  and  Mike  did  the  job. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee,  in  its  study  of  the  problem  facing 
us  in  Hollywood,  has  been  anxious  to  determine  just  what  the  purpose 
of  the  Communist  Party  was  in  its  extreme  efforts  in  organizing  the 
party  in  this  area.  As  a  result  of  your  experience  and  association  with 
it  can  you  tell  the  committee  briefly  what  the  aims  and  objectives  of 
the  Communist  Party  were  in  this  area  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  the  aims,  as  I  understood  them  from  confer- 
ences, repeated  conferences  with  Jerome,  V.  J.  Jerome  and  Lou  Harris 
and  Mike  Pell,  were  the  organization  of  a  Screen  Writers'  Guild, 
which  we  needed  very  badly.  The  second  objective  was  to  get  rid 
of  Browne  and  Bioff,  the  labor  racketeers  who  were  then  the  heads  of 
the  IATSE,  who  later  served  jail  terms.  Building  an  organization  of 
extras,  because,  as  I  said  before,  they  constituted  the  main  body  of 
actors.  The  formation  of  a  Directors'  Guild.  Incidentally,  I  know 
nothing  about  the  Directors'  Guild.  I  was  not  involved  in  that  job 
at  all,  except  I  know  that  that  was  one  of  the  purposes  of  the  party. 

Another  task  was  to  build  a  labor  daily  out  here.  They  had  the 
Western  Worker,  which  was  a  very  sectarian  newspaper.  To  supply 
aid  to  Spain.  To  expand  the  Hollywood  Anti-Nazi  League  into  a 
national  organization,  which  would  have  been  done  except  for  the 
Hitler-Stalin  pact,  and  also  the  formation  of  a  left-wing  Democratic 
Party  organization  in  Hollywood  which  flowered  at  a  later  date  as  the 
Motion  Picture  Democratic  Committee. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1585 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  any  office  set  up  by  the  Communist  Party  from 
which  to  function  in  performing  these  various  objectives? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  There  was,  sir.  We  had  our  offices  in  the  Taft  Build- 
ing. Incidentally,  the  owners  of  the  Taft  Building,  whom  I  don't 
know,  did  not  know  that  they  had  a  Communist  Party  headquarters  in 
the  Taft  Building.  The  office  was  rented  by  Mike  Pell  under  an 
assumed  name  and  the  telephone  was  also  in  an  assumed  name,  and 
all  there  was  in  the  office  was — a  little  8  by  10  office  with  a  couple  of 
files.  I  never  did  know  why  they  had  files  there  because  the  files  were 
empty.  We  kept  a  bottle  of  Scotch  there  once  in  a  while,  but  that 
was  about  all  there  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  have  spoken  of  the  aims  and  objectives  of  the 
Communist  Party  generally  in  this  area.  I  would  like  you  now  to  tell 
the  committee  when  and  where  the  Hollywood  section  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  was  organized. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  sir,  by  a  very  strange  coincidence  the  section 
was  organized  in  my  house.  From  the  time  I  got  out  here  in  January 
the  party  grew  pretty  rapidly.  Jerome  was  working  hard,  Mike  Pell 
was  working  hard,  Lou  Harris  was  working  hard,  and  all  of  us  were 
working  pretty  hard  to  recruit  members.  And  we  felt — you  see,  at 
that  time  there  was  no  real  organization,  you  were  a  party  member  but 
you  had  no  place  to  go  and  meet.  There  were  no  real  groups.  There 
were  a  few  study  groups  but  that's  about  all. 

It  was  felt  that  numerically  we  were  strong  enough  to  have  our 
own  organization,  which  was  called  the  Hollywood  section. 

In  June  of  1937,  the  middle  of  June,  the  meeting  was  held  in  my 
house.  My  house  was  picked  because  I  had  a  large  living  room  and 
ample  parking  facilities,  it  was  out  on  Beverly  Glen,  which  was  out 
in  the  country,  at  least  in  those  days,  and  my  lease  was  up  in  two  days. 
So  we  had  the  meeting  at  my  house. 

And  it  was  a  pretty  good  meeting.  We  were  honored  by  the  pres- 
ence of  many  functionaries  from  downtown  and  the  spirit  was  swell. 

Mr.  Walter.  Is  that  "swell"  or  "smell"  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  "Smell,"  I  would  say  now. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  give  us  the  names  of  those  who  were  in 
attendance  at  that  meeting,  who  were  members  of  the  Communist 
Party  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  in  addition  to  Jerome  and  the  others  I  have 
mentioned  before,  and  there  is  no  sense  in  me  going  over  the  list  again 
and  again.  I  would  like  to  get  to  the  newer  people,  if  I  may.  Eva 
Shafran,  who  was  then,  I  believe,  the  educational  director  of  the 
county,  downtown,  and  who  is  now  dead. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  the  name,  please  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  think  it  is  spelled,  the  first  name  was  Eva,  I  think 
it  is  spelled  S-c-h-a-f-r-i-n.1  I'm  not  sure,  but  I  think  that  is  how  you 
spell  her  name. 

Also  present  was  Harry  Carlisle,  who  is  now  in  the  process  of  being 
deported,  for  which  I  am  very  grateful.  He  was  an  English  subject. 
After  Stanley  Lawrence  had  stolen  what  funds  there  were  from  the 
party  out  here,  and  to  make  amends  had  gone  to  Spain  and  gotten 
himself  killed,  they  sent  Harry  Carlisle  here  to  conduct  Marxist 
classes.    He  was  at  the  meeting. 

1  According  to  information  in  the  files  of  the  committee,  spelling  should  be  S-h-a-f-r-a-n. 


1586  COMMUNISM    IX   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Also  at  the  meeting  was  Donald  Ogden  Stewart.  His  name  is  spelled 
Donald  Ogden  S-t-e-w-a-r-t,  Dorothy  Parker,  also  a  writer.  Her 
husband  Allen  Campbell,  C-a-m-p-b-e-1-1 ;  my  old  friend  Dashiell 
Hammett,  who  is  now  in  jail  in  New  York  for  his  activities;  that 
very  excellent  playwright  Lillian  Hellman;  a  woman  named  Herta, 
I  think  it  is  spelled  H-e-r-t-a,  Uerkvitz,  U-e-r-k-v-i-t-z,  who  at  that 
time  was  employed  by  Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer  in  the  research  de- 
partment. 

In  addition  there  was  Jesse  Burns,  a  reader. 

I  think  that  about  wraps  up  those  that  I  can  recall.  That  was  a 
long  time  ago. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  later  obtain  information  that  some  of 
these  individuals  were  made  members  of  the  Communist  Party  at 
large  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  did,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Or  rather  members  at  large  of  the  Communist 
Party  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  It's  the  same  difference. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Which  of  these  persons  whom  you  have  named  be- 
came members  at  large  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  I  will  have  to  put  it  this  way,  sir.  After  this 
meeting  I  never  saw  Stewart  or  Parker  or  Campbell  or  Hammett  or 
Hellman  at  a  party  meeting.  They  were  at  that  meeting  at  my  house 
and  I  spoke  to  Jerome  and  Lawson  at  a  subsequent  date  and  I  asked 
them  where  Stewart  and  Dash  were — I  was  very  fond  of  Dash 
Hammett — and  he  said  that  they  had  been  assigned  to  a  group  known 
as  party  members  at  large.  They  were  no  longer  assigned  to  any 
particular  group  in  the  Hollywood  section  and  that  I  had  seen  the 
last  of  them  as  far  as  organizational  matters  were  concerned.  I 
imagine  right  now  they  wish  they  hadn't  come  in  in  the  first  place. 

There  are  throughout  the  country  who  are  members  at  large  of 
the  Communist  Party. 

Mi'.  Tavenner.  Will  you  repeat  that,  please. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  said  throughout  the  country,  in  addition  to  these 
I  have  already  mentioned,  there  are  many  other  people  who  are  mem- 
bers at  large  of  the  Communist  Party.  That  is  very  important  to 
the  party  to  have  these  members  at  large. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  what  you  mean  by  a 
member  at  large,  or  what  the  Communist  Party  meant  by  the  ex- 
pression or  by  the  designation  "member  at  large"  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  if  you  are  pretty  important  and  you  don't 
want  to  be  exposed — well,  suppose  Congressman  Jackson  here  decided 
to  become  a  Communist,  God  forbid. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Would  you  pick  somebody  else. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  You  are  stuck  with  it. 

It  would  be  pretty  important  that  no  one  knew  that  such  was  the 
case,  and  the  party  would  probably  not  issue  a  formal  book.  You 
would  take  your  oath  to  the  Communist  Party,  you  would  pay  your 
dues  to  the  Communist  Party,  you  would  take  your  directives  from  the 
Communist  Party  and  you  would  function  as  you  were  told  to  function, 
but  you  would  not  go  to  meetings  with  other  Congressmen,  or  other 
writers,  or  other  members  of  the  top  echelon  in  the  trade  unions  or 
the  arts.  From  time  to  time  you  might  meet  with  a  man  like — I  am 
sure  these  five  writers  I  mentioned  as  members  at  large,  they  un- 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1587 

doubtedly  met  out  here  in  secret  with  John  Howard  Lawson  or  in 
New  York  with  V.  J.  Jerome,  or  a  gentleman  called  F.  Brown,  who 
is  a  member,  or  was  then  a  member  of  the  Politbureau  of  the  party. 
You  would  meet  with  these  people  and  get  your  directions  and  in- 
structions from  the  party  and  function,  but  you  would  have  no  contact 
with  anybody  else  in  the  party  for  your  protection  and  for  the  pro- 
tection of  the  party  and  the  collection  of  dues. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  there  any  action  taken  at  this  meeting  at  your 
home  which  you  can  now  recall  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.  We  all  promised  to  be  good  children  and 
bring  in  a  new  member  for  the  next  meeting.  We  promised  to  work 
in  the  mass  organizations  and  it  was  agreed  that  Harry  Carlisle  had 
been  fairly  well  exposed  at  that  time  as  a  Communist,  to  bring  out 
here  someone  that  nobody  knew  who  would  conduct  Marxist  classes. 
And  they  brought  out,  I  imagine  he  is  a  pretty  excellent  teacher,  his 
name  was  John  Weber,  W-e-b-e-r. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  at  this  meeting  discuss  the  problem  of 
bringing  out  a  person  to  teach  Marxist  classes? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Oh,  we  did.  We  had  to  have  somebody  to  teach 
Marxism  because  if  anything  had  happened  to  Jerome  or  Mike  Pell 
there  would  be  nobody  there  to  tell  us  what  to  do  or  to  instruct  us 
in  the  finer  points  of  Marxism. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  understand..  But  I  wanted  to  make  certain 
whether  that  action  was  taken  at  this  particular  meeting. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That  was,  sir,  at  the  second  meeting. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  As  a  result  of  that  action  you  say  a  Mr.  Weber ■ 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Mr.  John  Weber,  W-e-b-e-r,  who  functioned  as  a 
teacher,  both  for  party  people  and  to  work  with  nonparty  groups  and 
later  became  a  very  successful  agent  with  the  William  Morris  Agency. 
T  doubt  if  he  is  there  right  now. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  return  to  New  York  shortly  after  the  meet- 
ing to  which  you  have  just  referred? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  did.  I  went  to  New  York  and  up  to  Cape  Cod 
and  had  a  little  vacation  and  then  came  back  to  Hollywood. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  On  your  return  were  you  assigned  to  any  particular 
cell  or  group  of  the  party  ? 

AIr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.  By  the  way,  everybody  who  has  never 
been  a  party  member  calls  it  a  cell.  I  have  never  heard  it  called  a 
cell  in  the  party — all  the  spy  books  call  them  cells,  but  they  are  called 
groups,  and  I  was  assigned  to  a  group  which  met  at  the  home  of  var- 
ious members. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  the  names  of  the  persons  in  whose 
homes  that  particular  group  met? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  do.  I  remember  the  first  group  very  well.  We 
had  an  actor  in  the  group  named  John  Miller. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Skins  Miller. 

AIr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  repeat  the  name,  please? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Miller,  M-i-1-l-e-r,  formerly  of  the  famous  vaudeville 
team  of  Miller  and  Mack.  Skins  Miller,  and  his  wife,  Patricia  Miller. 
Also,  we  had  a  secretary  named  Leona  D'Ambarey,  who  was  a  secretary 
at  the  studio,  and  her  brother  Bob.  I  don't  know  what  his  occupation 
was.  I  haven't  the  faintest  idea.  A  young  writer  who  was  also  in  the 
group  named  Searle — I  think  it  is  spelled  S-e-a-r-1-e,  Searle;  Kramer, 

S1595 — 51 — pt.  4 12 


1588  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

K-r-a-m-e-r,  he  was  a  screen  writer;  and  the  son  of  Victor  Killian, 
Mike  or  Michael  Killian,  K-i-1-l-i-a-n ;  and  that  is  all  I  can  remember 
of  the  original  formal  group  with  which  I  functioned. 

Mr.  Tavennee.  During  this  period  of  time  was  V.  J.  Jerome  still  in 
California? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  think — I  would  have  to  consult  my  notes  to  check 
on  that.  I  think  V.  J.  was  still  here,  or  he  left  or  was  about  to  leave. 
There  was — he  was — he  either  had  left  or  he  was  about  to  leave  at 
this  particular  time,  Mr.  Tavenner.  If  you  will  give  me  a  moment  I 
will — I  would  say  that  he  had  left  or  was  so  close  to  leaving  you  can 
say  so. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Prior  to  his  leaving  did  he  give  you  any  further 
directions  as  to  Communist  Party  activities? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Oh,  yes;  you  are  quite  right.  He  was  still  here, 
because  it  was  while  I  was  a  member  of  this  group  that  Jerome 
assigned  me  to  work  in  the  IATSE.  At  that  time  the  IA  was — they 
felt  that  they  had  no  autonomy  as  a  union,  that  their  union  leaders 
were  corrupt — and  they  were — and  the  party  went  out  using  the  just 
grievance  of  the  union  members  to  do  a  lot  of  recruiting  and  it  was 
felt  that  I  could  be  of  some  service  to  the  members  of  the  IA  if  I 
worked  with  a  group  of  them  therein.  Actually,  the  work  consisted  of 
editing  a  throw-away  newspaper.  I  believe  we  printed  10,000  of  them 
at  a  clip  or,  rather,  mimeographed  them.  I  am  not  quite  sure  about 
it.  We  mimeographed  some,  we  had  some  printed.  It  was  called  the 
Studio  Voice,  and  the  good  comrades  stood  at  the  doors  of  the  studios 
and  distributed  them.  My  job  was  to  take  whatever  information  I 
received  from  my  comrades  in  the  IA  and  the  other  unions  and  trans- 
late it  into  a  pamphlet.  It  was  a  matter  of  editing.  I  had  no  knowl- 
edge of  the  situation,  actually,  myself,  outside  of  what  I  had  been 
told,  not  being  a  member  of  the  IA.  It  was  a  matter  of  rewriting, 
mostly.  There  was  the  job  of  the  Studio  Voice,  which,  at  the  time, 
was  primarily  one  of  attacking  the  leadership  of  the  IA.  It  was 
headed  by  Browne  and  Bioff,  who  both  went  to  jail.  It  stirred  up  a 
great  deal  of  controversy  and,  as  a  side  light  it  is  interesting  to  know 
that  there  was  a  great  struggle  going  on  in  our  little  newspaper. 

The  newspaper  was  about  this  big  [indicating],  sometimes  four 
pages,  if  we  were  flush,  and  it  was  issued  under  the  name  of  the  Com- 
munist Party.  I  mean,  this  was  not  a  front,  this  was  the  name  of  the 
party,  and  there  was  quite  a  struggle  going  on  to  see  whether  West- 
brook  Pegler  printed  the  news  first  about  Browne  and  Bioif  being  the 
crooks  and  panderers  and  racketeers  that  they  were  or  whether  our 
little  newspaper  got  the  news  first.  Sometimes  we  beat  Pegler  and 
sometimes  Pegler  beat  us,  but  the  average  was  pretty  good,  and,  be- 
tween us,  we  got  rid  of  the  gangsters.  That  was  about  the  job  I  did 
there. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  you  stated  you  were  assigned  to  work  in  the 
IATSE  by  V.  J.  Jerome  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  other  members  of  the  Communist  Party 
worked  with  you  on  that  assignment?  That  is,  persons  known  to  you 
to  be  members  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  worked  with  a  very  small  group.  The  group  was 
headed  by  Jeff  Kibre,  K-i-b-r-e,  I  believe  it  is  spelled.     He  was  a 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1589 

professional  party  functionary  and  a  CIO  organizer,  who  later  became 
an  official,  I  think,  in  the  fishermen's  union.  We  had  a  gentleman 
there  named  Norval  Crutcher,  N-o-r-v-a-1  C-r-u-t-c-h-e-r;  a  man 
named  Ed  Gilbert;  another  worker  named  Robert  Ames;  and  a  chap 
named  Irv  Heschel,  H-e-s-c-h-e-1.    These  were  party  members. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  inform  the  committee  as  to  the  name  of 
the  craft  with  which  each  of  these  persons  were  affiliated? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  can't  tell  you,  except  that  they  were  either  paint- 
ers or  carpenters  or  grips  of  some  kind.  Now,  maybe — it  is  very 
possible  now,  Kibre — I  know  he  was  not  a  member  of  any  trade-union 
at  that  time  because  he  was  a  party  functionary.  Crutcher  was  a 
member — he  was  a  secretary,  I  believe,  of  a  local,  638,  658 — I  don't 
remember  the  number  or  what  the  particular  craft  was;  we  have  so 
many  crafts  in  our  business,  and  my  connection  with  these  men  was 
very  limited.  I  can't  inform  you  any  further,  except  that  they  were 
craft  workers,  painters,  electricians,  carpenters,  and  such  like. 

All  were  workers  with  the  exception  of  Kibre,  who  was  a  profes- 
sional revolutionist. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  did  you  continue  your  work  on  this  as- 
signment given  you  by  Mr.  V.  J.  Jerome  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  imagine  I  got  out  about  three  or  four  issues  of 
the  Studio  Voice,  and  then  I  was  taken  away  from  this  job. 

Mj\  Tavenner.  What  do  you  mean,  taken  away? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  the  Studio  Voice  was  becoming  pretty  popu- 
lar, and  there  were  two  reasons  for  taking  me  away,  as  a  matter  of 
fact,  looking  back  on  it.  The  goon  that  existed  then  in  the  IA — and 
I  want  to  say  this :  Where  I  talk  about  the  IA,  I  am  talking  about  the 
IA  as  it  existed  then.  I  am  not  talking  about  the  IA  under  my  very 
good  friend,  Roy  Brewer.  That  is  a  completely  different  story.  I 
want  that  distinctly  understood.  They  had  a  goon  squad  in  the 
IA 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  just  a  moment.  IATSE  is  an  abbrevia- 
tion  

Mr.  Berkeley.  Also  IA. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  To  begin  with,  so  let  us  not  abbreviate  the  abbre- 
viation. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  The  IATSE. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  All  right. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  They  had  a  goon  squad,  and  the  goon  squad  was 
following  the  boys  who  were  picking  up  the  literature  and  distrib- 
uting it,  and  some  of  the  boys  were  getting  beaten  up,  and  Jerome 
felt  that  it  was  quite  possible  that  after  crocking  up  some  of  the  com- 
rades they  might  find  out  where  the  sheet  was  being  written  and  pay 
me  a  visit  which  might  possibly  blow  open  the  situation  in  Hollywood, 
so  I  was  taken  out  of  the  job  of  consulting  with  my  comrades  in  the 
IATSE. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  there  a  person  by  the  name  of  Maurice  Mur- 
phy who  was  connected  in  any  way  with  that  organization  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Maurice  Murphy  was  a  young  actor — I  mentioned 
him  before  in  the  actors'  group — who  became  a  paid  functionary  of 
the  party  at  this  time.  He  saw  that  the  dues  were  collected,  that  the 
literature  reached  the  proper  sources  for  the  meetings,  and  so  forth. 
He  worked  very,  very  hard  and  at  a  subsequent  date  quit  the  job. 


1590  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  have  told  us  that  it  was  about  the  beginning 
of  this  work  that  V.  J.  Jerome  left  the  California  area. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  He  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  AVho  succeeded  V.  J.  Jerome  in  the  work  of  the 
party  here  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Mr.  John  Howard  Lawson  took  over  the  duties  of 
V.  J.  Jerome.  He  was  the  grand  Pooh-Bah  of  the  Communist  move- 
ment from  that  day,  I  presume,  until  this.  He  speaks  with  the  voice 
of  Stalin  and  the  bells  of  the  Kremlin.  I  won't  go  into  any  further 
character  description  of  Mr.  Lawson  because  there  are  microphones 
within  our  room. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  an  individual  by  the 
name  of  Bob  Reed  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.  Bob  Reed  was  a  member  of  the  actorsr 
fraction  in  New  York  City.  He  also  had  some  connection  with  trade- 
union  work  in  the  entertainment  world  in  general,  and  Reed  was  also, 
as  I  recall,  it  now,  in  charge  of  the  Communist  actors'  work  within 
the  Federal  theater  project.  He  came  out  here  to  discuss  the  Federal 
theater  project  with  the  party  members  downtown  and  to  consult  with 
Lawson  about  the  fact  that  the  party  was  not  recruiting  important 
actors,  and  what  was  the  matter  with  the  party  out  here  because  they 
were  getting  bit  players  but  they  couldn't  get  important  names,  and 
I  am  happy  to  say  that  they  were  never  able  to  get  important  names 
as  far  as  the  actors  were  concerned.  Reed  was  out  here  very  shortly 
and  then  went  back  to  New  York.    I  haven't  seen  him  since  that  time. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  After  the  completion  of  your  work  with  the  IATSE 
were  you  assigned  to  any  other  section  of  the  Communist  Party  or 
group  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  was  assigned  to  a  group  which,  by  this  time,  con- 
sisted almost  entirely  of  screen  writers  and  their  wives. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  it  have  a  name  or  designation? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Not  to  my  knowledge.  The  only  name  I  remem- 
ber at  all  ever  hearing  of  the  party  was  the  name  of  my  first  group, 
which  called  itself  the  Patrick  Henry  group,  but  never  in  Hollywood 
do  I  know  of  any  group  by  the  name — they  may  have  had  them.  I 
just  don't  know  about  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  were  associated  with  you  in  that  group  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  One  of  our  leading  members  was  a  writer  named 
Gordon  Kahn,  a  former  newspaperman  and  screen  writer,  one  of  the 
best  newspapermen  in  the  business;  a  writer  named  Maurice  Rapf, 
R-a-p-f,  who,  I  believe,  is  no  longer  in  the  business;  a  man  who  later 
became  a  successful  playwright  named  Arnaud,  A-r-n-a-u-d  D'Usseau, 
D-'-U-s-s-e-a-u ;  and  his  collaborator,  James  Gow,  G-o-w,  not  a  Chi- 
nese; also  in  the  group  was  Ring  Lardner,  Jr.;  my  friend  Richard 
Collins;  Budd  Schulberg;  his  then  wife  Virginia  Schulberg;  the  great 
explainer,  Sam  Ornitz;  and  his  good  wife,  Sadie  Ornitz.  It  was  a 
very  harmonious  group  of  writers. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  believe  you  have  already — excuse  me.  Have  you 
completed  ? 

Mr.  Williams  (counsel  for  the  witness) .  Yes,  I  have. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  believe  you  have  already  stated  that  John  Howard 
Lawson  took  over  the  direction  and  control  of  the  party  after  V.  J. 
Jerome  returned  to  New  York. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1591 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That's  right,  sir,  he  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  Mr.  Lawson  have  any  particular  lieutenants 
or  aides  or  assistants  in  the  work  that  he  assumed  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.  He  was  assisted,  to  the  best  of  my  knowl- 
edge, by  Herbert  Biberman  and  Lou  Harris,  both  of  whom  I  have 
identified. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  Viola  Brothers  Shore? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  do. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  connection  or  affiliation,  if  any,  did  she  have, 
to  your  knowledge,  with  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  She  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  her  husband's  name? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  her  then  husband's  name  was  Gleichman, 
G-1-e-i-c-h-m-a-n.  He  was  known  as  Kelly  Gleichman.  I  don't  know 
his  correct  first  name.    He  was  known  as  Kelly. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  he  a  person  known  to  you  to  be  a  member  of 
the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  He  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  and  he 
was  the — well,  he  succeeded  Maurice  Murphy  in  the  job  of  organi- 
zational secretary  of  the  party.  He  was  a  very  hard  worker.  He 
took  on  a  lot  of  responsibility  and  a  lot  of  work  away  from  Biberman, 
Harris,  and  Lawson. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  the  Book  of  the  Day 
Shop? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Tell  the  committee  about  that. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  The  Book  of  the  Day  Shop  was  a  book  store  on  La 
Brea  in  Hollywood.  It  was  in  a  former  bungalow.  The  purpose  of 
the  book  store  was  to  sell  books  in  front  and  distribute  party  literature 
in  the  back.  They  had  teas  at  the  book  store  at  which  cultural  sub- 
jects were  discussed.  Once  or  twice  they  played  jazz  records  there, 
but  primarily  it  was  a  distribution  point  for  literature,  and  the  litera- 
ture secretaries  of  the  various  groups  in  Hollywood  went  there  the 
night  of  the  meeting  and  picked  up  their  little  bundles  of  Stalin  and 
Lenin  and  others  and  took  them  to  their  meetings. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Who  was  in  charge  of  that  book  store  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  The  book  store  was  presided  over  by  Miss  Susan 
Wells,  W-e-1-l-s,  who  later  married  a  gentleman  I  have  already  named, 
Arnaud  D'Usseau. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Daring  the  course  of  your  Communist  Party  mem- 
bership did  you  become  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name  of 
Sidney  Buchman? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  his  wife  Bea  Buchman? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  know  both  Sidney  Buchman  and  Bea  Buchman. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  her  correct  name  Bea  or  Beatrice? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That  I  don't  know,  sir.  I  only  know  her  as  Bea. 
I  assume  it  is  a  shortening  or  corruption  of  the  name  Beatrice. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  do  you  know,  if  anything,  regarding  the 
Communist  Party  affiliation  of  those  individuals? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  know  both  Sidney  Buchman  and  his  wife,  Bea — 
I  understand  they  are  since  divorced ;  I  am  not  sure,  but  she  was  his 
wife  at  the  time — as  members  of  the  Communist  Party. 


1592  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  state  to  the  committee  anything  regarding 
the  circumstances  under  which  they  became  members  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  Bea  Buchman  was  very  interested  in  the  work 
of  the  Hollywood  Anti-Nazi  League  and  was  doing  a  good  job  in  it. 
She  became  a  member  first,  I  believe.  At  a  later  date,  she,  I  believe, 
recruited  Sidney  into  the  party.  He  is  a  writer-producer  of  great 
distinction  in  the  industry.  I  was  a  member  of  a  group  with  Mrs. 
Buchman  and  met  in  fraction  meetings  with  Sidney  at  his  home  in 
Toluca  Lake.  He  also  was — I  believe  I  am  correct  in  this.  If  he 
wasn't  the  chairman  of  the  committee  he  was  a  leading  light  of  the 
committee  in  charge  of  raising  money  to  finance  the  book  store. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  membership  of  the  club  that  you — or 
group  that  you  belonged  to  at  the  time  you  are  speaking  of  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  the  groups  varied,  Mr.  Tavenner.  It  is  diffi- 
cult to  say  whether  you  had  5,  10  or  15.  It  is  a  long  time  ago.  Your 
groups  ran,  as  a  rule,  about  15  members,  of  which  you  figured  you 
would  have  10  at  a  meeting.  Then  there  was  a  period  when  things 
were  getting  hot  with  the  Dies  committee.  We  had  a  tip  the  FBI 
was  looking  for  us,  and  the  group  shrunk.  We  only  had  five  left  in 
the  group  for  securitj^  reasons,  so  it  is  a  little  difficult  to  say,  but  it 
kept  growing.     The  party  kept  growing  out  here. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  if  the  party  kept  growing  and  the  size  of  your 
group  or  cell  became  fewer,  what  was  the  answer  to  that  ?  Were  they 
split  up  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  They  were  divided. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Into  small  groups? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Like  an  amoeba,  automatically. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  as  the  result  of  that  procedure  were  you  as- 
signed to  still  another  group  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  was.  I  was  assigned  to  a  group  in  which  we — 
which  was  not  as  exclusively  a  group  of  writers  alone.  There  were 
other  people  in  the  group  of  other  professions. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  give  us  the  names  of  the  members  of  that 
group,  whose  names  you  can  now  recall,  and  who  from  your  own 
knowledge  were  members  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  A  writer  in  the  group  named  Arthur  Strawn. 
S-t-r-a-w-n ;  and  a  writer  who  later  became  a  minor  executive  in  the 
business  named  Michael  Uris,  U-r-i-s,  he  is  the  husband  of  Dorothy 
Tree;  a  short-story  writer  named  Sonora  Babb;  Harold  Buchman, 
Sidney  Buchman's  brother,  who  was  also  a  member  of  this  group. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  he  the  same  person  who  appeared  before  the  com- 
mittee in  Washington  the  early  part  of  these  hearings  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  wasn't  there,  Mr.  Tavenner,  but  I  presume  it  was 
he.  He  was  a  member  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild,  as  I  recall  his 
testimony,  and  I  only  know  of  one  Harold  Buchman  in  the  guild,  so 
I  will  make  that  assumption.  Victor  Shapiro,  a  publicist,  was  a 
member  of  the  group,  as  was  George  Bassman,  a  composer,  and  his 
wife  Kay.    Bassman  is  spelled  B-a-s-s-m-a-n. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  mentioned  the  name  of  Victor  Shapiro. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  he  the  same  person  who  was  a  member  of  the 
Democratic  Central  Committee  of  Los  Angeles  County? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE'   INDUSTRY  1593 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  what  position  he  took  with  regard 
to  a  resolution  of  the  Democratic  central  committee  supporting  the 
United  States  position  on  the  Korean  question? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  only  know  what  I  read  in  the  newspapers  as  far 
as  Mr.  Shapiro's  work  in  this  period  goes.  This  is  a  prime  example  of 
Communist  work  in  mass  organizations.  Here  we  have  Victor  Sha- 
piro, a  member  of  the  motion-picture  industry,  functioning  as,  I  be- 
lieve, secretary  of  the  county  central  committee  of  the  Democratic 
Party  and  blocking  a  resolution  offered  by  the  Democratic  Party  itself 
in  support  of  the  action  of  our  Government  and  of  the  United  Nations 
for  taking  action  against  the  Communists  in  Korea.  It  is  a  fine  state 
of  affairs  when  a  man  calling  himself  a  Democrat,  living  a  double  life, 
actually  a  Communist,  is  able  to  stymie  the  central  committee  of  our 
country's  Democratic  Party.  I  hope  as  a  result  of  this  that  Mr.  Sha- 
piro's work,  if  he  still  is  a  member  of  that  committee,  is  finished,  be- 
cause I  am  heartily  in  support  of  the  action  we  are  taking  in  Korea. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now  will  you  proceed,  please?  I  believe  you  gave 
us  the  name  of  George  Bassman. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Bassman  was  a  composer.  He  later  wrote — I  believe 
he  wrote  some  of  the  music  for  the  play  that  was — the  musical  that 
was  put  on  by  the  Hollywood  Theater  Alliance.  I  can't  recall  the 
name  of  it  offhand.    He  was  one  of  the  men  that  worked  on  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  acquainted  with  his  wife  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Kay?     Yes,  sir.    She  was  also  a  party  member. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  believe  this  is  a  convenient  place 
for  a  break,  if  you  desire. 

Mr.  Wood.  The  committee  will  stand  in  recess  for  20  minutes. 

(A  20-minute  recess  was  taken.) 

Mr.  Wood.  The  committee  will  be  in  order. 

Mr.  Counsel,  are  you  ready  to  proceed  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Very  well. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Mr.  Tavenner,  may  I  say  something? 

A  number  of  people,  including  the  press,  have  asked  me  whether 
everybody  whose  name  I  have  mentioned  is  actually  or  was  actually 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  when  I  was  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party,  or  whether  I  have  mixed  up  the  names  of  anyone 
in  this  list  who  was  not  a  member  of  the  party.  I  want  to  say  for 
myself  and  for  the  press  that  any  name  that  I  mention  here,  unless 
I  so  identify  it,  that  these  people  were  members  of  the  party.  The 
expression  I  used  before,  "I  didn't  want  to  hang  anybody,"  I  simply 
meant  that  I  wanted  to  pin-point  it  to  be  sure.  I  didn't  want  anyone 
to  lose  his  job  or  to  suffer  any  kind  of  reprisal  for  hearsay.  I  don't 
believe  that  will  happen.  I  am  sure,  I  am  certain,  I  am  under  oath 
right  now,  and  I  have  been  fighting  the  Communists  since  1942 
or  1943,  and  I  am  certain  of  what  I  am  saying.  I  just  want  to  impress 
that  on  everyone. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  endeavored  to  make  it  very  plain  in  questioning" 
you  that  I  was  asking  you  for  the  names  of  members  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  who  were  known  as  such  by  you. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  know  you  were,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  To  your  knowledge. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That's  right,  sir. 


1594  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  want  to  give  you  any  opportunity  that  you  may 
want  to  make  any  explanation  regarding  this  matter  that  you  desire. 

You  have  told  the  committee  that  you  were  transferred  from  one 
group  to  another  on  several  occasions. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That's  right,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  many  different  groups  were  there  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  of  which  you  think  you  were  a  member? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  there  was  the  group  in  New  York,  and  I 
would  say  exclusive  of  that  I  was  probably  in  at  least  a  dozen  groups, 
•exclusive,  of  course,  of  fractions  in  whose  work  I  took  part,  which 
was  one  of  the  reasons  why  I  knew  so  many  Communists. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  like  to  ask  you  at  this  time  to  give  the 
committee  the  names  of  any  other  persons  known  to  you  personally 
to  have  been  members  of  the  Communist  Party  during  the  time  that 
you  were  a  member,  which  you  have  not  already  given  us,  and  in  so 
doing  to  tell  us  as  nearly  as  you  can  the  circumstances  under  which 
you  knew  them  to  be  members  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  that  is  rather  difficult,  Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have 
an  enormous  list  here.  I  am  afraid  we  would  be  here  all  day  if  I 
started  to  talk  in  terms  of  how  I  met  them  and  where  I  met  them. 
These  people  that  I  will  name  as  having  been  in  my  group  may  have 
come  into  the  group  and  stayed  for  one  meeting  and  then  shuttled 
out  into  another  group  or  have  come  into  the  group  and  left  town, 
may  have  stayed  in  the  group  for  a  year  after  I  left  that  particular 
group.    All  I  will  say  is  that  I  knew  them  then  as  party  members. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well,  sir. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  A  man  named  Lou  Amster,  A-m-s-t-e-r,  a  writer ;  a 
Miss  Isobel  Lennart,  L-e-n-n-a-r-t,  who  was  a  reader.  I  originally 
knew  Isobel  as  a  reader,  as  a  member  of  the  Screen  Readers'  Guild. 
Later  she  became  a  very,  very  successful  screen  writer  at  Metro-Gold- 
wyn-Mayer.  Paul  Jarrico  was  in  a  number  of  groups  with  me.  That 
is  J-a-r-r-i-c-o.  A  young  actress  named  Frances  Sage.  There  was 
a  gentleman  in  the  group  with  me  for — well,  a  number  of  groups, 
named  Bob  Roberts,  R-ob-e-r-t-s.  Bob  Roberts  is  a  partner  of  John 
Garfield's;  and  his  [Robert  Roberts']  wife,  Catherine  O'Neal.  I  don't 
know  which  way  she  spells  O'Neal.  Dr.  Leo  Bigelman,  I  think  it  is 
B-i-g-e-1-m-a-n.  I  don't  know  how  he  spells  his  name.  Bigelman. 
I  saw  his  picture  in  the  paper  this  morning. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  connection  with  the  hearings  that  occurred  here 
yesterday  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.  Wilma  Shore,  the  daughter  of  Viola 
Brothers  Shore,  also  a  Communist,  and  the  wife  of  Lou  Solomon, 
a  writer  and  a  member  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild.  A  woman 
named  Helen  Slote.  I  think  her  name  was  spelled  S-1-o-t-e.  She 
was  secretary  of  the  party  fraction  in  the  Actors'  Lab  and  I  believe 
also  a  secretary  to  John  Garfield. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  she  appeared  as  a 
witness  here  yesterday? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  think  she  did,  sir,  with  her  husband. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  her  present  married  name? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  I  don't  know — I  believe  she  must  be  still 
married  to  the  chap  she  was  married  to  when  I  knew  them.  I  haven't 
heard  otherwise.    His  name  is  Al  Levitt.    I  think  it  is  L-e-v-i-t-t — 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1595' 

one  or  two  "t's" — I  don't  know.  George  Willner,  an  agent.  Mr. 
Chairman,  may  I  take  a  moment  or  two  here  to  talk  about  Mr.  Will- 
ner? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Be  very  glad  for  you  to. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  His  friendship  affected  my  own  fortunes.  We  have 
heard  a  lot  of  talk  about  how  the  industry  has  kept  Reds  out  of  work,, 
and  I  would  like  to  tell  the  committee  how  it  kept  myself,  an  anti- 
Communist,  out  of  work.  I  was  under  contract  with  Twentieth  Cen- 
tury-Fox starting  in  1945.  My  agent  at  the  time  was  George  Willner. 
However,  he  did  not  secure  me  the  position  with  Twentieth  Century- 
Fox,  but  one  of  his  associates,  a  non-Communist,  did.  I  went  to  Fox. 
I  did  one  job,  as  the  result  of  which  I  secured  a  contract.  When  the 
war  was  over  and  the  Duclos  letter  had  split  the  party  and  it  became 
possible  for  me  to  really  function  as  an  anti-Communist  organiza- 
tionally, I  went  to  George  Willner  and  asked  him  point-blank  if  he  was 
still  a  Communist,  and  he  assured  me  that  he  was  no  longer  a  Com- 
munist, and,  like  a  chump,  I  took  his  word  for  it.  Taking  his  word 
for  it  cost  me  a  hundred  thousand  dollars.  When  my  contract  was 
terminated  at  Twentieth  Century-Fox,  Willner  was  still  my  agent. 
He  said,  "Why  don't  you  go  away  on  a  vacation,  Martin  ?  You  have 
been  working  for  10  years.    Have  some  fun." 

I  went  back  east,  and  my  son's  graduation  from  prep  school,  and 
had  a  lot  of  fun  and  spent  a  lot  of  money  and  stayed  away  for  sev- 
eral months  and  called  him  up  and  asked  him  what  was  happening 
out  here,  and  he  said,  "Nothing;  it's  quiet;  it's  summertime;  things 
are  slow;  you  know  how  it  is,"  and  I  finally  came  back  with  my  wife 
to  Hollywood,  opened  up  the  house,  and  a  strange  thing  happened. 
A  writer  employed  for  10  straight  years,  writing  commercial  success 
after  commercial  success,  suddenly,  for  19  months,  finds  he  can't  get 
a  job.  It  didn't  look  right.  I  stayed  with  Willner's  agency,  the 
Goldston  Agency — what  I  say  bears  no  reflection  at  all  on  the  Gold- 
stone  Agency  because  they  were  completely  unaware  of  that  fact 
that  Willner  was  a  Communist,  and  as  soon  as  they  found  out  they 
tossed  him  out  on  his  ear.  I  stayed  with  Willner  9  or  10  or  11  months, 
whatever  it  might  be,  looking  for  a  job.  Nothing  happened.  I  finally 
changed  agents. 

My  agent  says,  "There  is  a  funny  resistance  to  you.  I  don't  know 
what  is  going  on.  I  can't  get  you  a  job."  I  changed  agents  again. 
My  agent  got  me  a  job.  Just  about  this  time  a  friend  of  mine  in  the 
studios  said,  "I  see  you  finally  found  a  story  you  were  willing  to- 
work  on."    I  said,  "What  do  you  mean?" 

He  said,  "Well,  I  gave  Willner  scripts  time  after  time  to  give  to 
you  to  read  and  the  answer  always  came  back  you  didn't  like  the 
script ;  you  didn't  like  the  assignment." 

I  said,  "I  never  received  a  script  in  all  the  time  that  Willner  rep- 
resented me  from  the  time  my  contract  was  up  with  Fox." 

In  other  words,  this  man  who  had  told  me  he  was  no  longer  a  Com- 
munist had  deliberately  sabotaged  me,  kept  me  out  of  work  for  19' 
straight  months  by  withholding  scripts  from  the  studios.     After  a 
while  the  studios  would  say,  "If  Berkeley  is  getting  so  high  and 
mighty,  we  won't  give  him  a  script  to  read." 

As  the  result  of  the  machinations  of  Mr.  Willner,  I  had  to  cut  my 
salary  when  I  went  back  to  work.    Fortunately,  however,  I  got  on- 


1596  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

a  script  that  was  a  good  script,  and  I  am  back  in  the  swing  again. 
At  present  I  am  employed,  but  Mr.  Willner  deliberately,  directly — 
and  I'll  say  this  inside  of  committee  or  outside  of  committee,  because 
I  was  an  anti-Communist,  because  he  was  in  a  position  to  represent 
me — kept  me  out  of  work  and  cost  me  19  months  of  salary. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  active  in  your  opposition  to  the  Com- 
munist Party  during  that  period  of  time? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  was,  sir.  I  left  the  party — I  imagine  we  will  get 
to  the  actual  mechanics  of  why  and  how  I  left  the  party  later.  I  left 
the  party  around  1943.  There  was  a  war  going  on.  It  was  a  honey- 
moon between  us  and  the  Reds.  There  wasn't  much  to  do  about  being 
an  anti-Communist.  As  soon  as  I  saw  what  was  going  on  in  the 
Screen  Writers'  Guild,  as  soon  as  I  found  that  there  were  enough 
other  men  who  were  liberals  who  still  did  not  want  us  to  be  Commu- 
nist-dominated, we  formed  a  committee  called  the  All-Guild  Com- 
mittee. This  committee  had  no  official  connection  with  the  guild. 
It  was  a  rump  organization  outside  of  the  guild  whose  sole  purpose 
was  to  get  control  of  the  guild  board  away  from  the  Reds  and  return 
it  to  the  membership.  I  was  chairman  of  that  committee  at  Twentieth 
Century-Fox  from  1947  when  we  formed  this  committee  until  1949 
when  I  left  Fox.  My  proxy  is  still  held  by  the  same  gentleman  who 
has  held  it  since  I  gave  it,  Allen  Rivkin. 

I  want  to  say  this,  that  due  to  the  efforts  of  the  All-Guild  Committee, 
with  the  exception  of  one  member  whom  I  will  name  later,  there  are 
no  Communists  on  the  board  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  today.  We 
got  rid  of  the  rats;  the  other  guilds  are  friendly  to  us;  we  are  able  to 
negotiate  with  the  producers;  we  have  a  better  contract  than  we  ever 
had  before;  and  Hollywood  is  a  better  place  in  which  to  live,  let  me 
tell  you. 

I  want  to  have  you  pay  some  attention  to  the  men  who  helped  form 
this  All-Guild  committee.  In  the  past  Mr.  Brewer  made  a  lengthy 
statement,  for  which  I  am  very  happy,  of  what  his  particular  group 
did  in  driving  the  Reds  out  of  the  industry,  and  we  writers  have  been 
under  fire  for  years,  and  in  many  cases  justly  so,  for  the  Communist 
control  and  infiltration  in  our  guild,  and  I  was  one  of  those  who  in- 
filtrated. I  think  that  the  entire  industry  owes  a  debt  of  gratitude  to 
Allen  Rivkin,  who  was  chairman  of  the  All-Guild  Committee  and  who 
today  is  president  of  the  Motion  Picture  Industry  Council.  I  think 
we  owe  a  great  debt  of  gratitude  to  Art  Arthur,  a  writer  who  is  now 
executive  secretary  of  the  industry  council;  and  to  Leonard  Spiegel- 
gass;  and  to  Karl  Tunberg,  the  head  of  our  guild;  and  to  George 
Seaton  and  Valentine  Davies,  Adele  Buffington,  and  to  all  the  others. 

We  drove  the  rascals  out  of  the  guild,  and  they  are  never  coming 
back  in  our  guild  again,  I  promise  you. 

The  other  Red  I  remember,  a  woman  called  Ann  Roth  Morgan — 
by  golly,  I  know  I  forgot  to  mention  another  name  which  is  very 
important  in  connection  with  this. 

When  we  organized  our  guild  way,  way  back,  the  secretary  of  the 
Screen  Writers'  Guild  that  was  employed  by  the  guild  also  was  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party  and  later  became  a'  member  of  the 
State  Department,  from  which  hie  was  subsequently  thrown  out.  His 
name  was  Charles  Page.  I  believe  succeeding  Charles  Page  as  execu- 
tive secretary  of  our  guild  was  another  comrade,  a  woman  known  as 
Ann  Roth  Morgan.    I  think  her  last  name  is  or  was  Morgan. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1597 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  what  her  present  married  name  is? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  have  heard  her  name  is  Richards — I  believe  her 
name  is  Richards.  I  am  not  certain  of  it  and  if  I  am  correct — I  believe 
her  name  is  Richards  and  she  is  married  to  a  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  correct  in  the  name. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  So  we  had  two  executive  secretaries  in  a  row  who 
were  Communists.  If  I  may  jump  ahead,  the  third  executive  secretary 
of  the  guild  was  also  a  Communist.    I  will  get  to  him. 

Also  in  my  group  during  this  period  was  a  writer  named  Harold 
Goldman  and  his  wife  Kathleen  Goldman;  an  actress  named  Mary 
Virginia  Farmer ;  also  a  director  of  a  few  pictures  out  here,  the  man 
who  produced  and  directed  Angel  Street  in  New  York  and  in  which  I 
had  an  interest,  Shepherd  Traube ;  another  member  of  our  group  was 
Lorry  Blankfort,  B-1-a-n-k-f-o-r-t ;  and  Albert  Maltz. 

Also  in  our  group  were  Dan  James,  J-a-m-e-s,  and  his  wife  Lilleth, 
who  I  believe  are  present  today,  and  wrote  the  book  of  Bloomer  Girl. 

The  gentleman  I  have  already  mentioned,  the  husband  of  Helen 
Sloate,  Al  Levitt;  a  girl  named  Alice  Goldberg,  a  secretary  who  sub- 
sequently married  Ian  McLellan  Hunter;  and  George  Willner's  wife, 
Tiba,  T-i-b-a.  Tiba  Willner  was  very,  very  active,  and  I  believe — I'm 
not  certain  of  this — has  been  a  courier  for  the  Comintern. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  spoke  of  having  known  these  persons  whose 
names  you  have  given  us  as  members  of  the  Communist  Party,  either 
through  having  met  with  them  in  Communist  Party  meetings  or  in 
fraction  meetings. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That's  right,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  that  true  with  respect  to  all  of  the  persons  whose 
names  you  have  just  mentioned  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That's  true. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  fraction  meetings  did  you  attend?  I  know 
you  will  not  be  able  to  tell  us  that  in  detail,  but  give  us  a  general 
description  of  those  meetings  and  the  purposes  of  them. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  we  had  a  fraction  of  the  Screen  Writers' 
Guild.  The  guild  fraction,  especially  in  its  early  days,  and  you 
gentlemen  are  quite  familiar  with  the  struggle  we  had  in  the  early 
days  of  the  guild,  we  had  the  advice  of  Mr.  Charles  Katz,  an  attorney 
at  law  in  this  town,  in  our  legal  problems  in  the  guild.  Mr.  Katz  was 
a  member  of  the  party.  Lester  Cole,  Ian  McLellan  Hunter,  to  whom 
I  referred  before,  who  was  married  to  Alice  Goldberg,  John  Wexley, 
W-e-x-1-e-y,  the  playwright.  Marguerite  Roberts,  who  is  a  writer  at 
Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer,  and  the  Charles  Page  I  spoke  about  before 
who  is  no  longer  with  the  State  Department.  Fred  Rinaldo,  a  writer, 
and  his  collaborator,  Bob  Lees. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  that  is  the  same  Bob  Lees 
who  appeared  before  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  in 
Washington  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  It  is,  sir. 

(At  this  point  Representative  Donald  L.  Jackson  left  the  room.) 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Albert  Maltz,  the  writer.  Now  we  come  to  the  third 
member  of  the  party  who  was  also  an  executive  secretary  of  my  guild, 
William  Pomerantz,  who  had  been  with  the  NLRB  and  who,  on  the 
recommendation  of  party  members  on  the  board,  was  entrusted  with 
the  job  of  guiding  our  guild  through  its  struggle. 


1598  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  anything  about  the  connection  of 
William  Pomerantz  with  the  National  Labor  Relations  Board,  or  any 
function  of  that  Board,  prior  to  his  coming  to  California? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.  He  was  a  member  of  the  Board,  I  believe, 
in  the  South.  It  may  have  been  New  Orleans,  I'm  not  sure.  I  know 
he  worked  with  the  NLRB  down  South  and  he  worked  with  them  back 
East.  He  was  under  fire  constantly  for  the  stand  he  took.  He  was 
suspected  of  having  sympathies  too  far  to  the  left.  Either  about  the 
time  he  was  to  lose  his  job  with  the  NLRB,  or  having  lost  it,  the  com- 
rades out  here  felt  that  he  was  an  ideal  man  to  move  into  our  guild 
and  they  promptly  proceeded  to  move  Pomerantz  into  our  guild. 

(The  witness  conferred  with  counsel.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  he  what  is  known  as  a  field  examiner  with  the 
National  Labor  Relations  Board? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  He  was. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  at  the  time  he  was  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party  here  in  California  that  he  was  serving 
in  that  capacity,  that  is  as  a  field  agent  of  the  National  Labor  Rela- 
tions Board? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Do  you  mean  whether  I  know  at  the  time  he  was 
working  for  the  Government  he  was  also  a  party  member? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Sir,  I  cannot  say  to  my  own  personal  knowledge. 
I  can  only  say  that  he  was  brought  out  here  by  the  party  to  work  in 
the  guild,  and  was  a  party  member  when  he  got  here  because  he  was 
brought  right  into  our  fraction.  I  can  presume  from  that  that  he 
was  a  party  member  before  he  reached  California. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  be  reasonably  accurate  as  to  the  date 
when  you  first  learned  that  he  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 
That  is  a  very  important  matter  and  I  don't  want  you  to  guess  at  it. 
If  you  don't  know  I  would  rather  for  you  to  say  so  rather  than  to  give 
an  estimate. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  would  rather  not  guess,  Mr.  Tavenner.  I  believe 
you  can  consult  the  records  of  the  guild,  or  I  am  sure  the  guild  will 
furnish  you  the  precise  date  we  hired  this  man,  because  there  was  a 
very  short  time  lapse  between  his  employment  by  the  Government 
and  his  employment  by  the  guild.  I  wouldn't  hazard  a  guess.  I 
don't  want  to  do  any  guessing  and  I  know  you  don't  want  me  to. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  why  his  relationship  with  the  Na- 
tional Labor  Relations  Board  was  terminated? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  would  say,  sir,  I  don't  know.  He  never  told  me. 
It  would  all  be  hearsay  and  I  would  rather  not 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  would  not  be  hearsay  if  he  told  you. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  He  did  not  tell  me  so ;  he  didn't  tell  me  so.  Other 
people  have  told  me  so,  and  I  don't  want  to  repeat  hearsay. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  where  William  Pomerantz  is  now  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  understand  a  lot  of  people  would  like  to  know 
that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  We  are  among  them. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Are  you  ?  I  didn't  know  that.  I  don't  know  where 
he  is. 

May  I  go  on  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now  if  you  will  proceed. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1599 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Another  member  of  the  fraction  was  Waldo  Salt. 
We  had  a  visitor  from  abroad  named  Joris  Ivens,  J-o-r-i-s  I-v-e-n-s. 
Mr.  Ivens  was  a  maker  of  documentary  film  who  discussed  the  prob- 
lem of  making  films  under  battle  conditions  before  our  fraction.  By 
battle  conditions  I  mean  in  Spain.  Another  writer  who  is  now  the 
TV  story  editor  for  a  large  company  was  Josef,  spelled  with  an  "f", 
Mischel,  M-i-s-c-h-e-1 ;  Carl  Dreher,  D-r-e-h-e-r,  who  was  an  engineer 
and  a  technician  but  for  some  reason  which  I  have  never  understood 
worked  for  a  time  with  the  Screen  Writers'  fraction.  Cyril  Endfield, 
E-n-d-f-i-e-1-d,  a  writer-director;  and  a  writer  named  Charles 
Leonard,  no  relation  to  Isobel  Lennard,  which  is  L-e-o-n-a-r-d ;  and 
Carl  Foreman,  that  is  spelled  F-o-r-e-m-a-n.  I  believe  he  wrote  the 
screen  play  of  Cyrano  de  Bergerac  and  the  Champion,  and  other  very 
fine  pictures.    Arnold  Manoff 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Let  me  ask  you  a  question  there.  Does  Mr.  Fore- 
man hold  any  position,  to  your  knowledge,  with  the  Screen  Writers' 
Guild? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  am  glad  you  asked  me  that,  sir,  because  that  is 
very  important.  I  said  before  that  there  was  only  one  Communist — 
let  me  rephrase  that,  There  is  on  the  guild  today  only  one  man  I 
know  who  was  ever  a  Communist,  This  man  has  never,  to  my  knowl- 
edge, disavowed  his  communism.  His  name  is  Carl  Foreman,  the 
man  I  just  mentioned.  He  is  the  only  one  left  on  our  board.  I  hope 
he  appears  here,  sir,  and  clears  himself  because  it  will  help  me  clear 
the  guild  and  that  is  a  job  I  want  to  do. 

A  writer  named  Arnold  Manolf,  M-a-n-o-f-f ;  another  writer  named 
Richard  Weil,  spelled  W-e-i-1 ;  a  writer  Gertrude  Purcell,  Hugo  But- 
ler, Da  It  on  Trumbo. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  was  the  particular  interest  of  the  fraction 
meetings,  as  far  as  you  know,  when  you  met  with  those  individuals? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  the  fraction  meeting  in  the  guild,  it  all  de- 
pended on  the  particular  period  in  which  the  fraction  was  in  being, 
because  in  the  beginning  the  fraction  was  organized  for  the  purpose 
of  organizing  the  guild. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  other  words,  that  covered  the  entire  period  of 
your  membership  in  the  guild  I 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That  is  quite  correct,  sir;  during  many  different 
issues;  verv  many  different  members. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  there  any  other  fraction  meetings  which  stand 
out  in  your  recollection? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  there  was  a  fraction  dealing  with  minority 
problems,  the  problems  of  Negroes,  Mexicans,  Jews,  Italians,  for 
which  a  great  deal  of  time  and  effort  went, 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  again,  by  fraction  meetings,  I  mean  fraction 
meetings  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Of  the  Communist  Party.  Someone  asked  me 
where  the  name  "fraction"  came  from,  whether  it  was  "faction,"  and  I 
told  this  gentleman  that  if  there  was  a  faction  you  were  thrown 
out  of  the  party;  that  it  is  a  fraction,  which  was  called  a  fraction 
because  it  was  a  part  of  the  whole. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  will  you  tell  us  about  the  work  of  those  frac- 
tion meetings. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  The  fraction  dealing  with  minority  groups — and 
again,  this  ran  over  a  period  of  time.    Jerome  Chodorov,  one  of  the 


1600  COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

authors  of  My  Sister  Eileen,  was  a  party  member,  and  Lester  Koenig?. 
K-o-e-n-i-g,  who  is  now  an  associate  producer;  Roland  Kibbee,  K-i-b- 
b-e-e,  and  Marguerite  Roberts,  husband  John  Sanford,  a  writer, 
Morton  Grant  and  Melvin  Levy,  L-e-v-y,  Allen  Boretz,  B-o-r-e-t-z, 
coauthor  of  Room  Service;  Hy  Kraft,  K-r-a-f-t.  I  presume  that  is 
Hyman.  I  have  always  known  him  as  Hy.  His  name  is  spelled 
K-r-a-f-t.  Paul  Trivers,  a  writer  who  later,  I  believe,  was  story 
editor  for  John  Garfield;  W.  L.  River;  a  musician  known  as  Leon 
Becker,  B-e-c-k-e-r ;  and  Guy  Endore,  E-n-d-o-r-e. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  like  you  to  tell  us  a  little  more  about  the 
character  of  the  work  of  the  Communist  Party  through  the  fractions 
dealing  with  the  minority  groups  which  you  are  now  discussing. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  it  took  various  forms.  There  was  the  problem 
of  the  minority  group  in  the  picture,  in  the  film,  itself ;  in  the  story  you 
were  working  on.  In  the  past  many  minority  groups  were  degraded, 
both  in  the  theater  and  in  pictures,  and  a  great  deal  of  time  and  study 
went  into  the  problem  of  how  to  treat  the  minority  group  in  pictures. 
The  problem  of  a  Jew,  how  he  should  be  made  up,  how  he  should 
speak;  the  manner  of  the  Negro,  and  quite  correctly  so;  other  work 
that  was  done — you  see,  things  like  the  Scottsboro  boys,  they  came 
under  this  particular  group,  and  Guy  Endore  wrote  a  pamphlet 
through  the  work  of  this  and  other  groups  dealing  with  the  Scotts- 
boro case 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Berkeley,  the  committee  has  from  time  to  time 
heard  evidence  relating  to  the  Communist  Party  line  and  activity 
with  reference  to  the  Scottsboro  trial.  We  had  been  under  the  impres- 
sion or  arrived  at  the  conclusion  that  the  Communist  Party  was  ex- 
ploiting that  incident  for  the  benefit  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  believe  they  were,  sir,  and  I  would  like  your  per- 
mission to  take  that  up  a  little  later  in  my  testimoiry,  because  it  is 
pertinent,  actually,  to  one  of  the  reasons  for  which  I  left  the  party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  The  exploitation  of  the  Negro  by  the  Communist. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Very  well.  There  is  an  organization  in  Hollywood 
known  as  the  Hollywood  Theatre  Alliance  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  There  was  such  an  organization ;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  come  in  contact  with  the  work  of  that 
organization  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes.  I  wTorked — I  attended  a  few  meetings  of  the 
fraction  of  that  organization  around  1938  or  1939. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  the  circumstances  under  which  it  was 
organized  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  The  Hollywood  Theatre  Alliance  was  organized 
directly  by  the  Communist  Party  for  the  purpose  of  presenting  so- 
called  progressive  or  left-wing  or  anti-Fascist  propaganda. 

I  believe  their  first  production,  which  was  the  one  I  couldn't  think 
of  before  in  relation  to  Mr.  Bassman,  was  Meet  the  People,  which  was 
very  successful  both  here  and  in  New  York.  I  attended  a  meeting  of 
the  fraction  which  helped  organize  the  Hollywood  Theatre  Alliance, 
although  I  had  no  active  part  in  the  Theatre  Alliance  at  all.  As  a 
matter  of  fact,  I  attended  a  meeting  of  this  organization,  and  subse- 
quently when  there  was  talk  of  doing  my  Lincoln  play,  by  that  time 
there  was  no  money  left  and  the  Lincoln  play  was  never  done.  The 
leading  spirits  in  the  fraction  were 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1601 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  again,  by  fraction,  you  are  referring  to  mem- 
bers of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Dues-paying  members  of  the  Communist  Party. 
Mostly,  actually,  the  members  of  this  fraction  were  the  men  who 
helped  organize" the  show  and  put  it  on;  writer,  director,  and  so  forth. 
Edward  Elisku,  E-1-i-s-k-u,  the  writer,  was  a  member  of  this  group 
and  very  active  in  the  show  itself.  Incidentally,  it  was  a  very  amus- 
ing show.    Robert  Rossen. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  he  the  same  Robert  Rossen  who  appeared  before 
the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  as  far  as  you  know  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  He  is,  sir.  Edward  Chodorov,  C-h-o-d-o-r-o-v.  In- 
cidentally, he  was  the  first  producer  I  worked  for  in  town,  and  the 
man  I  went  with  was  Guy  Endore,  to  go  way  back  early  this  morning. 
He  is  a  well-known  playwright  and  producer.  And  Henry  Blank- 
fort,  a  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  he  the  same  individual  who  appeared  before  this 
committee  yesterday  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  He  is,  sir.  I  saw  his  picture  in  the  paper,  and  there 
is  no  doubt  in  my  mind.  Danny  Dare,  producer  and  director  who 
has  worked  for  several  of  the  major  studios  in  both  capacities  and, 
I  believe,  is  now  working  on  television.  Please  understand,  I  can 
only  take  you  up  to  1942  or  1943,  that  period.  Many  of  these  people 
may  possibly  have  left  the  party  since  then.  At  this  time  these  people 
were  party  people.  Bernard  Vorhous,  V-o-r-h-o-u-s,  a  director.  Jay 
Gorney,  G-o-r-n-e-y,  who  is  a  writer  and  a  lyricist.  Another  writer, 
Ben  Barzman,  B-a-r-z-m-a-n,  and  his  collaborator,  Bess  Taffel.  I 
think  her  name  is  spelled  T-a-f-f -e-1.     One  or  two  "f ' s" ;  I  am  not  sure. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  know  whether  she  is  the  same  Bess  Taffel 
who  occupied  the  chair  yesterday  that  you  are  now  occupying? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  She  is  the  same  girl.  George  Sklar,  an  excellent 
writer.  Irving  J.  White  and  Francis  Faragoh,  spelled  F-a-r-a-g-o-h,, 
the  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  attend  a  meeting  in  the  home  of  Offner? 
I  understood  you  to  say  you  attended  a  meeting  but  you  did  not 
state  where  it  was. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  attended  the  first  meeting  of  this  group  at  the 
home  of  Mortimer  Offner  who  was  then  a  screen  writer,  and  today, 
I  believe,  is  a  television  writer  or  producer  or  director.  I  don't  know 
which.     O-f-f-n-e-r. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Can  you  give  us  the  names  of  any  other  persons 
known  to  you  to  have  been  members  of  the  Communist  Party  who 
cannot  be  identified  by  you  as  members  of  any  particular  fractions 
or  groups? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.  You  see,  in  addition  to  the  party  life,, 
there  is  a  certain  amount  of  social  life,  and  with  some  of  the  follow- 
ing I  can't  say  I  met  them  in  a  fraction,  I  can't  say  I  met  them  in  a. 
group.  I  can  only  say  I  met  them  in  the  party.  That  may  have  been 
at  a  social  function  at  someone's  home  where  I  was  introduced  to 
Comrade  Jones  or  met  someone  on  the  street  and  received  a  similar 
introduction.  The  presumption  can  only  be  that  when  you  were  in- 
troduced to  Comrade  Jones  and  he  said,  "This  is  Comrade  Berkeley," 
that  Comrade  Jones  is  Comrade  Jones.  A  writer  named  Howard 
Dimsdale,  D-i-m-s-d-a-1-e;  a  director,  Michael  Gordon. 


1602  COMMUNISM   EST   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  he  the  same  individual  who  appeared  as  a  wit- 
ness here  in  this  committee  yesterday  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir.     The  actor,  Howard  DaSilva. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Is  he  the  same  person  who  appeared  before  the 
committee  in  Washington? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  He  is  the  same  posing  man.  Albert  Bein,  B-e-i-n, 
a  writer.  A  musician  named  Wayne  Ronka,  R-o-n-k-a,  and  another 
musician  named  Sam  Albert,  A-1-b-e-r-t.  I  believe  I  mentioned 
Spencer  Austrian  earlier  in  connection  with — or  maybe  I  didn't.  We 
had  two  legal  talents  at  our  disposal  in  the  writers'  fraction  in  1937 
and  1938.  We  had  Mr.  Charles  Katz'  services  as  a  member  of  the 
fraction  and  the  services  of  Spencer  Austrian  as  a  member  of  the  frac- 
tion, both  attorneys  of  the  bar  of  this  State.  A  writer  named  Maurice 
Clark,  and  if  you  catch  me  on  this  one — Paul  Cline.  I  don't  know  how 
he  spells  his  name,  though  I  think  it  is  C-1-i-n-e.  Paul  Cline.  He  was 
a  party  functionary,  I  believe,  around  1937.  He  was  the  head  of  this 
district  of  the  party  in  Los  Angeles.  There  have  been  various  rumors 
that  he  was  expelled  at  a  later  date,  but  I  have  no  knowledge  of  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  Mr.  Berkeley,  I  would  like  for  you  to  tell 
the  committee  what  the  purposes  and  objectives  of  the  Communist 
Party  were  in  endeavoring  to  organize  the  moving-picture  industry. 
What  is  it  they  were  attempting  to  accomplish  and  the  methods  by 
which  they  expected  to  accomplish  their  purposes? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  I  think  in  addition  to  the  work  I  spoke  of 
earlier,  work  in  the  trade-unions  and  the  guilds,  that  they  were  satis- 
fied pretty  early  that  they  could  not  influence  the  content  of  pictures. 
As  a  side  on  that,  I  heard  Mr.  Biberman  talking  over  the  TV  the  first 
day  of  the  hearings  here  and  he  said  that  ever  since  the  unfriendly 
10  had  been  put  away  and  since  the  hearings  of  this  committee  have 
progressed  to  the  point  they  have,  that  the  content  of  the  pictures 
of  this  town  had  seriously  gotten  worse;  that  now  we  were  making 
pictures  that  deal  only  with  sex.  I  don't  know  whether  they  are 
uninterested  in  sex  in  the  Communist  Party,  but  I  vaguely  remember 
some  of  the  pictures  that  Mr.  Biberman  made.  He  said  that  we  were 
only  concerned  with  melodrama,  and  I  couldn't  understand  why  the 
absence  of  10  men  or  the  purging  of  25  or  30,  which  I  hope  is  done 
soon,  from  the  industry  is  going  to  make  the  quality  of  our  product 
any  worse,  because  I  believe  that  the  product  that  we  are  turning  out 
today  is  as  good  or  better  than  it  ever  was.  I  don't  believe  at  any 
time  that  the  party,  with  the  exception  of  a  silly  picture  like  Blockade,  a 
badly  made,  badly  written  picture,  has  been  affected.  I  am  reminded 
of  one  day  at  Stander's  house.  He  came  in  all  excited.  He  says, 
"By  golly,  I  got  away  with  it."  I  said,  "What  did  you  get  away 
with?"  because — I  dont'  want  to  refer  to  him  again  as  a  screwball, 
but  the  man  was  a  screwball.  He  said,  "Well,  I  was  shooting  this  pic- 
ture, and  I  had  to  wait  for  the  elevator,  and  I  pressed  the  button  and 
there  is  a  pause,  and  the  director  said,  'Whistle  something  and  fill  in,' 
so  I  whistled  four  bars  of  the  Internationale."  Well,  whether  that 
ever  got  on  film  or  not,  I  don't  know,  but  that  was  about  the  extent 
of  what  the  Communists  were  able  to  do.  A  picture  goes  through  too 
many  hands.  It  is  controlled  by  too  many  minds  for  any  single  writer 
or  producer  or  actor  to  affect  its  content. 

I  believe,  actually,  that  the  main  purposes  of  the  party  out  here 
were  prestige  and  financial.     If  they  were  able  to  get  enough  names 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1603 

of  decent,  honest  people  who  were  interested  in  good  causes  on  the 
masthead  of  enough  front  organizations  and  raise  enough  money, 
they  would  be  ahead  of  the  game.     To  my  personal  knowledge,  I  have 
never  seen  a  financial  balance  sheet  of  any  front  organization  of  any 
kind  of  the  Communist  Party,  and  I  don't  think  the  Income  Tax  De- 
partment has  ever  seen  one.     I  would  be  very  interested  in  seeing 
some  of  them.     When  you  have  a  movement  like  the  Hollywood 
Anti-Nazi  League,  which  was  organized  by  the  Communists  to  take 
advantage  of  the  prevailing  anti-Nazi  sentiment  of  this  town  and 
which  grew  and  which  flourished,  and  you  see  a  gentleman  who  says,  "If 
you  will  call  the  Hollywood  Anti-Nazi  League,  the  Hollywood  Anti- 
Nazi  and  Anti-Communist  League,  I  personally  will   raise  a   mil- 
lion dollars."   I  was  told  in  a  fraction  meeting  that  David  Selznick  had 
offered  personally  to  guarantee  the  sum  of  $1  million  to  the  Holly- 
wood Anti-Nazi  League  if  the  Hollywood  Anti-Nazi  League,  which 
was  directly  under  the  control  of  Communists,  would  change  its  name 
to  Hollywood  Anti-Nazi  and  Anti-Communist  League,  and  the  boys 
turned  a  million  dollars  down.     They  said,  "Keep  your  money,  Mr. 
Selznick,"  because  they  knew  what  would  happen.     They  knew  that 
Mr.  Selznick  would  stick  his  auditors  in  there  and  that  the  money 
would  be  used,  number  one,  for  the  purpose  for  which  Mr.  Selznick 
wanted  it  used,  which  was  anti-Fascist  and  anti-Communist,  and  they 
didn't  want  any  funds  used  to  fight  themselves.    That  happened  time 
and  time  again.    One  of  their  other  purposes,  outside  of  that  type  of 
front  organization,  was  the  political  organization,  the  Motion  Pic- 
ture Democratic  Committee.     The  Democratic  Party  and  the  Re- 
publican Party  both  are  very  weak  organizationally  in  the  studios 
because  Hollywood  as  such  is  not  an  entity.     We  are  scattered  all 
through  the  county,  and  the  Communists  seized  on  the  popularity 
of  Roosevelt,  on  the  temperature  and  the  climate  of  that  particular 
period  to  organize  the  Motion  Picture  Democratic  Committee.     I 
believe  I  was  on  the  board  of  directors  of  that  committee,  and  we 
enlisted  many  nonparty  people. 

Now,  I  want  it  understood,  the  people  I  am  mentioning  now  are 
nonparty  people  and  by  no  stretch  of  the  imagination  am  I  label- 
ing them  anything  except  nonparty  people,  and  they  were  antiparty 
people,  people  like  Phil  Dunne,  Helen  Gahagen  Douglas,  Milton 
Sperling,  Melvyn  Douglas;  good  liberal  people  like  that  were  sucked 
into  our  Motion  Picture  Democratic  Committee  which  we  built  up 
into  a  flourishing  institution,  and  when  Finland  came  along.  Phil 
Dunne  said,  "Take  a  stand  on  Finland  and  denounce  Russia."  We 
Communists  said,  "Oh,  no,  we  can't  denounce  Russia."  That  is  the 
holy  of  holies.  So  we  smashed  the  very  organization  we  had  spent 
a  year  in  building,  because  we  were  more  interested  in  the  Soviet 
Union  than  we  were  in  the  truth.  Now,  vast  sums  of  money  have 
been  raised  in  this  town,  enormous  sums  of  money.  I  have  been 
asked  by  the  investigator  for  this  committee  to  estimate  the  sum, 
the  FBI  have  asked  me  at  various  times  how  much.  I  don't  think 
anybody  can  make  an  honest  estimate  of  the  millions  of  dollars  that 
were  taken  out  of  this  town  under  the  pretext  of  the  Hollywood  Anti- 
Nazi  League,  the  Joint  Anti-Fascist  Refugee  Committee,  the  Com- 
mittee to  Aid  the  Lettuce  Workers,  the  committee  for  this,  the  com- 
mittee for  that ;  a  whole  list  of  them.    That  money  never  got  where  it 

81595— 51— pt.  4 13 


1604  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION- PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

was  going,  I'm  sorry  to  say.  It  went,  organizationally,  I  am  firmly 
convinced,  to  the  Communist  Party. 

Many  of  our  best  people  in  the  party  were  trapped  that  way.     So 

1  think  primarily  the  job  of  the  Communpist  Party  in  Hollywood 
was  not  to  affect  pictures  but  to  raise  money  and  get  the  value  of 
prestige  names. 

In  addition  to  the  Communist  Party  members  in  this  town  we  had 
a  block  of  angels.  I  am  sorry  to  say,  gentlemen,  I  don't  know  who 
they  were.  These  were  nonparty  people,  not  members  at  large,  but 
nonparty  people  who  gave  sums.  One  man  1  was  told  was  a  regular 
contributor  of  $400  a  week  directly  to  the  party  coffers.  I  do  not 
know  his  name.  So  in  addition  to  the  dues  that  were  collected,  in 
addition  to  the  sucker  money  (hat  was  taken  out  of  the  front  organiza- 
tions, there  was  the  sucker  money  from  some  very  important  people 
here  who  gave  on  faith.  Now,  remember,  when  I  say  "'on  faith,"  that 
was  the  period  of  1937,  1038,  1939,  when  the  Communist  Party  was  the 
only  vocal  enemy  of  the  Nazis.  All  the  rest  of  the  parties  straddled 
the  fence.     And  that  was  the  big  bait. 

Does  that  answer  your  question,  sir? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes;  it  does.  I  would  like  to  ask  you  further,  how- 
ever, what  plan  or  general  plan  was  adopted  with  regard  to  the  assess- 
ment of  Communist  Party  members. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  do  not  recall  precisely  what  the 
percentage  was.  I  remember  this,  you  paid  as  a  party  member  a 
minimum  amount  of  dues.  In  addition  to  this  you  paid  a  percentage 
of  your  salary.  I  cannot  give  you  any  information  on  what  the  per- 
centage was  because  I  just  don't  recollect  the  percentage.  They  got 
enough. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  was  the  percentage  of  assessment  deter- 
mined  

Mr.  Berkeley.  By  what  you  owned. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  And  by  whom? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  You  determined  it  pretty  much  yourself.     If  it  were 

2  or  3  or  4  percent,  you  were  making  a  thousand  dollars  a  week,  you 
paid  2  or  3  or  4  percent  of  a  thousand  dollars  a  week  and  the  party 
took  you  at  your  word. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  understand.  But  who  fixed  the  amount  of 
percentage? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  nothing  was  really  fixed.  You  were  told.  A 
meeting  was  called — there  might  be  a  meeting  of  the  financial  secretary 
out  of  the  bureau,  in  which  the  matter  of  dues — they  would  say,  "Com- 
rades, we  are  not  getting  enough  money ;  our  overhead  has  increased ; 
we  are  going  to  have  to  increase  our  dues."  And  it  was  increased. 
That  is  called  democratic  centralism.  You  told  them  to  increase  it 
and  it  is  increased.  You  take  orders,  that's  all.  The  minute  you 
think,  you  are  chopped. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  there  any  censorship  exerted  by  the  leadership 
in  the  Communist  Party  upon  the  activities  of  the  writers? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Do  you  mean  social  censorship  in  regard  to  your 
work  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  had  in  mind  with  regard  to  the  character  of  your 
work. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  I  think  I  covered  that  before. 


COMMUNISM    IN    MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1605 

Now.  they  realized  they  were  unable,  actually,  to  affect  the  content 
of  pictures.  I  am  completely  convinced,  as  sure  as  I  am  sitting  here, 
that  the  content  of  pictures  was  not  affected  by  the  party.  Now.  it 
is  an  interesting  comment  that  all  the  years  that  the  party  was  yelling, 
uWe  are  going  to  make  progressive  pictures,"  the  most  progressive  pic- 
tures in  this  industry  have  been  made  by  nonparty  people.  The  great 
pictures  have  been  made  by  nonparty  people — I  repeat  that  again. 
Gentlemen's  Agreement  and  pictures  of  that  sort  had  no  connection 
with  the  party.  They  were  studio  projects.  The  studio  didn't  make 
them  essentially  out  of  a  sense  of  "We  are  going  to  discuss  this  week, 
comrades,  the  Jewish  or  the  Negro  question."  The  time  was  ripe 
and  Mr.  Zanuck,  Mr.  Mayer,  or  Mr.  Senary,  or  Mr.  Warner  felt  the 
time  was  right  to  make  a  picture  dealing  with  a  specific  problem, 
the  same  as  they  felt  the  time  had  come  to  make  a  picture  like  Behind 
the  Iron  Curtain  or  they  might  feel  it  was  right  to  make  westerns. 
They  made  progressive  pictures  because  the  time  was  right  to  make 
them. 

I  do  not  believe  that  the  content  of  films  was  touched  in  one  iota  by 
the  Reds.  However,  plays  were  something  different ;  books  were  some- 
thing else  again. 

John  Howard  Lawson  started  on  a  long-range  project  to  write  a 
history.  He  kept  writing  that  history  and  rewriting  that  history 
because  he  would  get  it  finished  and  then  he  would  give  it  to  the  com- 
mittee. The  comrades  who  were  censoring  him,  or  guiding  him — 
that  is  a  great  word  "guiding."  The  other  great  word  is  "self -disci- 
pline." Self-discipline  is  when  you  do  something  wrong  that  someone 
else  wants  you  to  do.  They  would  say,  "No,  this  isn't  the  way  history 
happened." 

And  Lawson  says,  "But  all  my  research  tells  me  this  is  the  way 
history  happened." 

"Oh,  no,  it  didn't." 

Lawson  is  a  good  Communist.     He  changes  history. 

Then  comes  a  note  from  New  York,  from  the  center,  it  happened 
another  way,  we  lost  that  battle  instead  of  winning  it.  So  again  the 
history  book  got  rewritten.  As  far  as  I  know  that  book  has  never 
been  published. 

We  had  a  case — again  I  am  talking  about  Lawson,  where  he  did 
a  play  called  Processional,  many  many  years  ago.  It  was  the  first 
of  the  impressionistic  plays  that  borrowed  heavily  from  the  Germans. 
It  was  a  very  exciting  play,  experimental  play,  very  thrilling  play. 

Well,  the  WPA  came  along  and  the  Federal  theater  project  wanted 
to  do  some  exciting  plays.  Someone  latched  onto  Processional.  Then 
we  had  the  spectacle  of  the  high  commissar  of  Hollywood  going  to 
New  York,  having  his  play  done  by  the  Federal  theater  project,  having 
it  criticized  by  the  party  press  for  being  reactionary  and  ant i worker, 
and  then  the  party  moving  heaven  and  earth  to  throw  actors  out  of 
work  because  the  pkvy  didn't  agree  with  their  party  line. 

That  is  a  pretty  nice  kind  of  a  job  of  censorship.  I  don't  think  I 
need  belabor  that  point  any  more. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  indicated,  when  I  asked  you  the  question,  that 
there  was  some  possibility  of  a  censorship  of  a  social  character. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Oh,  yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  did  you  have  reference  to  there  ? 


1606  COMMUNISM    IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  my  first  real  sharp  conflict,  I  mean  an  ideolog- 
ical conflict  with  the  party  came  about  when  I  was  assigned  to  work 
with  a  certain  gentleman  at  Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer.  He  was  not  a 
Communist.  He  was,  let's  call  him,  the  right-wing,  reactionary,  what- 
ever you  want  to  call  him.  He  is  a  very  prominent  writer.  I  enjoyed 
working  with  him.  I  was  assigned  to  work  with  him  by  my  employer 
and  we  subsequently  wrote  either  four  or  five  pictures  together. 

Actually,  one  of  the  things  that  caused  me  to  leave  the  party  was 
the  fact  that  Lawson  and  Collins  and  Jarrico  and  Biberman  called 
me  in  and  said,  "Why  are  you  working  with  this  man?" 

I  said,  "I  was  hired  to  work  with  him.    That  is  my  job." 

He  said,  "Don't  you  know  he  is  an  antiparty  man?" 

"Sure  I  know  he  is  an  antiparty  man.  He  doesn't  like  my  politics, 
either,  but  we  are  working  together." 

Tremendous  pressure  was  brought  on  me  to  quit  my  assignment, 
to  quit  my  job,  because  this  man  happened  to  be  a  member  of  the 
Motion  Picture  Alliance.  They  didn't  say  this  man  is  a  bad  writer, 
they  didn't  say  he  shot  his  wife.  They  said,  "He  is  a  reactionary, 
you  can't  work  with  him,  it's  bad  for  you." 

And  that  was  the  beginning  of  my  social  freeze  in  this  town,  work- 
ing with  that  kind  of  a  man  is  almost  as  bad  as  working  with  a 
Trotskyite.  Anybody  you  don't  like  is  a  Trotskyite,  a  Fascist,  you 
know. 

My  friend  Harry  was  a  Fascist.  Harry  is  a  good  writer;  I  liked 
working  with  him.    I  would  like  to  work  with  him  again. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  was  it  that  you  became  inactive  in  the  work 
of  the  party? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Do  you  mean  inactive  in  the  work  of  the  party  or 
do  you  mean  when  did  I  begin  to  get  butterflies? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  you  put  it  your  own  way. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  I  will  put  it  my  own  way. 

Well,  I  first  got  knocked  over  by  the  pact.  I  swallowed  the  pact, 
it  made  sense,  the  official  explanation.  The  Russians  were  stalling 
for  time ;  I  swallowed  it. 

Along  comes  the  war  and  everybody  says,  "You  see,  they  were  stall- 
ing for  time.  You  see,  the  British  aren't  fighting,  the  French  aren't 
fighting- — great." 

This  tiling  kept  up  and  our  country  is  sending  ships  to  England 
and  planes  to  England  and  trying  to  help  England  stay  on  her  feet, 
and  the  party  is  yelling,  "The  Yanks  aren't  coming."  And  I  was 
surprised  to  find  the  Communist  Party  adopting  the  line  of  America 
First. 

One  day,  without  saying  anything  to  anyone,  except  my  wife,  I 
went  downtown  to  this  neighborhood  here  and  I  gave  some  money  to 
the  William  Allen  White  Committee,  the  committee  to  defend  America 
by  aiding  the  allies.  Now,  I  was  chicken.  I  should  have  made  the 
break  then.  I  didn't.  I  gave  them  money  and  I  kept  on  in  the 
party. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  raise  your  voice  a  little  bit  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  gave  money  to  the  William  Allen  White  Com- 
mittee and  continued  with  my  work  in  the  party.  This  was  early  in 
1941  before  Russia  was  attacked. 

Russia  is  attacked  and  suddenly  I  find  out,  "Kid,  you  were  right, 
you  were  smart."    I  ride  along  with  the  boys.     And  now  the  Yanks 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1607 

are  coming.     The  old  party  line  changes.     It's  a  good  war  now,  we've 
got  to  get  this  country  into  war. 

So  one  clay  I  am  fighting  to  keep  us  out  of  the  war  and  the  next  day 
I  am  driving  us  into  the  war.     That's  all  right  if  you  have  a  swivel 

TtPf*,  K 

I  am  working  at  the  studio  and  the  social  pressure  is  bding  brought 
to  bear  on  me,  "You  can't  work  with  this  writer;  you  shouldn't  work 
there  with  this  writer."  They  are  yelling  for  a  second  front.  Oh, 
boy,  they  yelled  for  a  second  front. 

And  I  was  then  working  at  Metro  and  Richard  Collins  and  Paul 
Jarrico  had  been  working  on  a  picture  called  Song  of  Russia. 

My  friend  James  Kevin  McGuinness,  who  is  now  dead,  and  for 
whom  I  have  a  great  regard,  walked  into  my  office  one  day  and  said, 
"Can  you  talk  to  those  kids  of  yours,"  meaning  Jarrico  and  Collins, 
"and  of  mine,"  meaning  you  are  the  oldest  Communist,  I  think,  on 
the  lot,  "about  the  script  they  are  turning  in  ?"  He  told  me  that  they 
had  the  American  leading  man,  played  by  Bob  Taylor,  a  boy  from 
Iowa  in  the  Soviet  Union  on  this  tour,  completely  unaware  of  how  to 
run  a  tractor.  Now,  any  American  who  can  run  a  car  can  run  a 
tractor.  But  these  were  two  comrades,  to  build  up  the  Soviet  Union, 
have  the  Russian  girl,  who  probably  has  shoes  on  for  the  first  time, 
show  Bob  Taylor,  the  American  musician,  the  wonders  of  a  tractor 
and  he  is  a  boy  from  Iowa.  That  was  too  much  for  Mr.  McGuinness 
to  swallow  and  it  was  too  much  for  me  to  swallow.  So  I  went  to  Jar- 
rico and  to  Collins  and  we  had  a  "hassle."  It  was  a  good  one,  They 
called  me  names  and  I  called  them  names,  and  it  went  on  and  it  went 
on. 

I  still  say  you  tell  the  truth  in  a  picture,  as  much  of  the  truth  as  you 
can,  as  much  of  the  truth  you  tell  here  in  your  books  or  in  your  home 
life.  That's  what  it  is  for.  I  could  not  see  the  United  States  being 
run  down  to  make  a  point  for  anybody  else,  because  it  is  bad  picture 
making,  because  everybody  in  Missouri  who  sees  this  picture  glorify- 
ing the  Soviet  Union,  all  the  propaganda  value  is  going  out  of  the 
picture  when  they  see  the  boy  from  Iowa  doesn't  know  what  the  clutch 
or  the  brake  is  on  a  tractor.  It  is  just  stupidity.  It  is  bad  politics  on 
the  part  of  Jarrico  and  Collins.     That  shook  me. 

In  comes  Mr.  McGuinness  one  day  and  he  says,  "Do  you  know  how 
much  they  have  raised  for  the  Scottsboro  boys?" 

"No."  " 

He  says,  "My  figures  shows  they  have  raised  $2,000,000  for  the 
Scottsboro  boys  and  Judge  Leibowitz  has  given  his  services  for  noth- 
ing.   What  has  happened  to  the  money  ? 

Now,  McGuinness  and  I  had  a  strange  relationship.  McGuinness 
was  the  organizer  and  first  leader  of  the  Motion  Picture  Alliance,  and 
I  was  a  friend  of  his,  and  I  was  also  known  to  McGuinness  as  a  Com- 
munist, 

He  said,  "What's  happening  to  that  money?" 

I  said,  "I  don't  know." 

Pie  said,  "Well,  you  are  going  to  have  to  find  out  some  day  because 
somebody  is  going  to  ask  the  question."  And  he  said,  "You  got  your 
name  on  the  committee  list;  maybe  they  will  ask  you  that  question, 
maybe  you  are  responsible  for  moneys  and  taxes  unpaid,  or  theft  or 
larceny,  or  what  have  you."  He  said,  "By  the  way,  you  are  also  a 
member  of  the  Joint  Anti-Fascist  Committee,  aren't  you  ?" 

81595 — 51— at.  4 14. 


1608  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

I  said,  "Yes." 

"Did  you  ever  hear  of  a  non-Communist  being  saved  by  the  Joint 
Anti-Fascist  Committee?"  He  said,  "Now,  look,  I  don't  care  if  they 
save  the  Commies  if  they  are  in  trouble  there,"  he  said,  "but  did  you 
ever  hear  of  a  Socialist  being  saved,  or  of  a  Republican  being  saved, 
or  of  a  Social  Democrat  being  saved  by  the  league?" 

I  said,  "I  don't  know.    I  just  give  my  dough." 

He  said,  "Why  don't  you  find  out,  sucker?" 

So  sucker  marched  off  to  see  Mr.  John  Howard  Lawson,  and  there 
I  got  the  double  talk.  And  believe  you  me,  that  boy  can  dish  out 
double  talk.    He  is  an  expert. 

All  this  time  they  are  yelling,  "We  want  a  second  front,  we  want 
a  second  front,  we  want  a  second  front." 

And  a  man  named  Churchill,  who  I  thought  was  a  little  smarter 
than  I  was,  and  slightly  smarter  than  Mr.  Lawson,  and  probably  it 
occurred  to  me,  a  lot  more  honest  than  Mr.  Stalin,  said,  "No  second 
front."  But  we  wanted  the  second  front  and  we  got  a  second  front 
and  the  troubles  of  the  world  today  are  due  to  the  second  front  which 
we  got  then,  because  if  we  had  gone  through  the  surf  on  our  belly,  if 
we  had  the  Balkans  on  the  side  of  the  Western  Powers,  there  would 
be  no  east-west  problem  today.  It  was  Mr.  Churchill,  more  than  any- 
thing else,  plus  the  constant  switch  of  line,  plus  my  belief  that  these 
men  were  essentially  thieves,  that  caused  me  to  break  with  the  party 
in  1942  or  1943. 

Now  the  break  was  final.  And  strange  enough  no  one  ever  came 
after  me  and  said,  "Join."  I  guess  they  knew  I  wasn't  having  any 
of  it. 

In  1944  I  was  told  that  the  Communist  Party  had  been  dissolved, 
that  a  group  known  as  the  Communist  Political  Association  had  been 
formed  which  was  going  to  take  in  Socialists,  Progressives  of  the  La 
Follette  ilk,  left-wing  Democrats,  Utopians,  et  cetera,  and  would  I 
come  to  a  meeting.  I  went  to  such  a  meeting.  The  meeting  was  held 
in  the  valley,  and  I  have  racked  my  brains  for  the  place  at  which  this 
meeting  was  held.  There  were  about  a  hundred  people  there.  It  was 
at  somebody's  home.    I  don't  remember  whose  home  it  was. 

There  we  got  the  new  line,  capitalism  lives  with  socialism.  No  more 
communism,  the  bunk.  Gradually  communism  will  wither  away;  we 
will  take  over.    I  didn't  buy  that,  either. 

I  missed  the  impact  of  the  control.  That  I  missed  completely.  My 
actual  break  with  the  party  was  in  1942  or  1943.  We  can  better  date 
that  exactly  by  finding  out  when  the  Song  of  Russia  was  being  written. 
It  was  being  written  for  a  long  time. 

Since  then  I  have  devoted  every  moment  that  I  could  to  fight  the 
party.  I  have  maintained  this  position,  however — I  want  that  clear, 
because  I  have  heard  the  things  that  have  been  said  about  me.  The 
party  presses  call  me  a  renegade,  a  Trotskyite,  informer,  a  traitor, 
right  down  the  filthy  vocabulary  of  the  party.  I  am  not  a  reactionary, 
I  am  not  a  Fascist,  I  am  not  a  Communist.  I  am  a  liberal,  middle-of- 
the-roader  who  says  that  the  liberal  movement  in  this  country  was 
destroyed  by  the  Communists,  that  the  Communists  themselves*  have 
forced  the  liberal  either  to  quit  the  liberal  movement,  to  move  over 
to  the  right  or  be  destroyed  by  the  left.  There  is  no  choice  left  be- 
cause of  the  Communist  Party. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1609 

Today  the  liberal  movement  is  growing,  you  gentlemen  in  Congress 
know  it,  you  feel  its  effect,  and  that's  where  I  belong,  and  that's  where 
I  have  been  for  approximately  8  years,  and  that's  where  I  am  going 
to  stay.  I  belong  to  the  All-Guild  Committee,  I  have  helped  clean 
the  Reds  out  of  the  guild.  In  addition,  I  discovered  that  there  is 
the  other  side  of  the  coin.  Where  in  the  past  I  raised  money  and  gave 
funds  to  the  Joint  Anti-Fascist  Refugee  Committee,  which  was  to 
help  the  victims  of  Nazi  persecution,  I  found  a  few  years  ago  that 
some  very  intelligent  men  in  this  country  had  formed  an  organization: 
known  as  the  International  Relief  and  Rescue  Committee,  and  I  have 
been  a  constant  contributor  to  that  ever  since  I  learned  of  it.  That 
today  a  national  campaign  is  going  on  under  the  guidance  of  Carl 
Spaatz,  for  the  iron  curtain  refugee  work.  And  this  money  is  being 
used  to  rescue  the  victims  of  the  Red  terror. 

There  are  other  movements  under  way  to  help 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Due  to  the  necessity  of  adjourning,  I  suggest  that 
you  reserve  that  until  the  afternoon  session. 

Mr.  Wood.  The  committee  will  stand  in  recess  for  1  hour  and  20 
minutes. 

(Whereupon  a  recess  was  taken  at  12:  55  p.  m.  until  2: 15  p.  m.  of 
the  same  day.) 

AFTERNOON  SESSION 

(At  the  hour  of  2 :  20  p.  m.  of  the  same  day,  the  proceedings  were 
resumed,  the  same  parties  being  present.) 
Mr.  Wood.  Let  the  committee  be  in  order. 
Mr.  Counsel,  are  you  ready  to  proceed  further? 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 

TESTIMONY  OF  MARTIN  BERKELEY,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HIS 
COUNSEL,  EDWARD  BENNETT  WILLIAMS— Resumed 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Berkeley,  you  were  telling  us  at  the  end  of  the 
morning  session  about  the  manner  in  which  you  withdrew  from  the 
Communist  Party  and  I  believe  at  the  time  of  closing  you  were  tell- 
ing us  of  your  activity  against  the  Communist  Party  after  you  had 
withdrawn. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  proceed,  please,  with  a  statement  of  such 
information  as  you  desire  to  give  regarding  your  activity  against 
the  Communist  Party  after  leaving  it  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  As  I  said  earlier,  from  the  inception  of  the  All- 
Guild  Committee  of  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild,  I  was  a  member  of 
that  committee,  I  solicited  funds  and  membership  at  the  studio,  at 
Fox  where  I  was  then  employed,  and  have  continued  to  do  so.  I 
have  devoted  a  great  deal  of  time  to  the  work  of  the  International 
Rescue  and  Relief  Commission  to  aid  the  victims  of  the  Red  terror 
and  of  the  iron  curtain  campaign  fund  under  the  auspices  of  Carl 
Spaatz.  Already  a  group  of  us  have  been  talking  about  organizing 
a  large  dinner  in  California  of  the  talent  groups  to  raise  a  consider- 
able sum  of  money  for  General  Spaatz'  worthy  fund.  We  hope  that 
within  the  next  2  months  we  can  have  a  real  announcement  that 
Hollywood  has  raised  for  the  victims  of  the  Red  terror  just  as  in 


1610  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

the  past  it  raised  money  for  the  victims  of  Nazi  terror,  a  huge  fund 
to  help  these  people  who  have  lost  their  homes  and  their  liberties  as 
a  result  of  the  Reds. 

I  think,  sir,  that  about  sums  up  my  active  organizational  work. 
I  have  a  letter  with  me,  I  doubt  whether  anything  will  be  gained 
hy  reading  it,  from  Allen  Rivkin,  the  head  of  the  Motion  Picture 
Industry  Council  and  the  head  of  the  All-Guild  Committee,  attesting 
to  my  work  with  the  All-Guild  Committee  since  its  inception.  But 
I  see  no  necessity  at  this  time  to  read  the  letter.  I  think  the  matter 
is  generally  understood  by  the  committee. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  any  further  statement  that  you  desire 
to  make  at  this  time  to  the  committee  relating  to  the  activities  of  the 
Communist  Party  in  Hollywood? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  think  through  the  efforts  of  this  committee  that 
the  works  of  the  Communists  have  been  smashed,  in  a  sense.  The 
party  is  underground  today.  I  think  it  is  extremely  optimistic  to 
say  that  25  or  50  active  Communists  are  left  in  this  town.  I  think 
there  are  many,  many  more  and  I  think  that  the  statements  of  wit- 
nesses who  have  come  before  this  committee  and  who  have  taken 
refuge  behind  the  fifth  amendment  are  indicative  of  the  fact  that 
there  are  still  many  active  functioning  Communists  here,  because  a 
man  whose  skirts  are  clean  will  help  his  country.  I  am  particularly 
pleased  with  the  attitude  of  Warner  Bros,  yesterday  in  the  case  of 
Leo  Townsend  when  they  found  out  that  he  had  received  a  subpena 
from  this  committee  and  they  found  out  that  he  would  cooperate  and 
help  his  country,  their  attitude  in  saying  "Your  job  is  not  in  jeopardy ; 
you  are  an  honest  man."  I  think  it  is  indicative  of  another  feeling. 
Mr.  Lippert,  of  Exclusive  Pictures,  of  London,  engaged  me  some  weeks 
ago  to  write  a  picture.  This  nonsense  that  appearing  before  this  com- 
mittee means  that  there  are  reprisals  from  the  industry  is  not  true, 
and  I  don't  believe  it  is  true.  We  have  two  specific  cases  of  two 
witnesses  here  yesterday  and  today,  and  as  men  come  forward  and 
tell  the  truth  and  cooperate  they  will  find  that  the  industry  will 
cooperate  with  them  to  the  same  degree  it  did  in  the  past. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter? 

Mr.  Walter.  Mr.  Berkeley,  you  testified  that  there  were  Commu- 
nists at  large,  and  that  classification  was  created  for  two  purposes: 
(1)  To  protect  these  alleged  responsible,  influential  people  and  (2) 
to  protect  the  party.  That  leads  me  to  conclude  that  people  who 
set  up  that  classification  realize  that  they  were  engaged  in  illegal  work 
or  something  subversive.     Is  that  not  the  fact  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  think  so.     I  agree  with  your  conclusion,  sir. 

Mr.  Walter.  I  think  that  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  Berkeley,  I  think  some  clarification  is  needed — 
at  least,  I  am  not  quite  clear  on  the  matter — of  your  telegram,  the 
telegram  to  Mr.  Collins.  I  assume  in  light  of  what  you  said  at  the 
opening  part  of  your  statement  that  you  considered  that  to  be  a  mis- 
take and  that,  having  to  do  it  over  again,  you  would  not  send  such 
a  telegram? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That  is  quite  correct. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1611 

Mr.  Jackson.  Did  Mr.  Collins,  to  the  best  of  your  knowledge,  in 
any  way  state  anything  other  than  the  truth  in  his  testimony  before 
the  committee? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  have  not  read  all  of  Mr.  Collins'  testimony. 

Mr.  Jackson.  But  to  the  best  of  your  knowledge  his  testimony  was 
correct  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Quite  so. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  believe  you  mentioned  during  the  course  of  your 
testimony  the  altruistic — and  I  quote  this — "altruistic  purposes  of 
the  Communist  Party"  as  being  the  reason  why  some  people  were  led 
into  the  party.  In  light  of  your  subsequent  experience  and  observa- 
tion in  the  party,  do  you  believe  that  there  are  any  altruistic  pur- 
poses, except  as  they  may  be  momentarily  expedient  in  making  an 
appeal  to  minority  groups,  and  things  of  that  kind  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  You  are  quite  right,  Mr.  Jackson.  One  of  the  sim- 
plest ways  of  gaining  a  mass  membership  either  in  the  party  or  in 
front  organizations  is  bj^  appealing  to  the  better  instincts  of  men,  and 
the  face  of  the  party,  in  many  respects,  is  a  very  kind  face.  We  know, 
actually,  what  the  face  of  the  party  is,  but  it  takes  a  long  time  to  see  it. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Did  any  except  the  members  of  the  Communist  Party 
during  the  time  of  your  membership  have  any  knowledge  of  the  ex- 
tent to  which  the  Communist  infiltration  had  succeeded  in  Hollywood? 
Was  it  generally  known  throughout  the  country  and  throughout  Los 
Angeles,  the  nature  and  true  extent  of  this  infiltration? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  don't  think  so.  I  don't  think  that  was  ever  made 
clear  until  this  committee  really  started  to  function  and  get  to  the 
root  of  it. 

Mr.  Jackson.  What  organization  is  today  carrying  the  burden  of 
the  Communist  propaganda  and  continued  Communist  activities  in 
the  Los  Angeles  area  ? 

Would  you  care  to  express  an  opinion  on  that  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Well,  I  think  the — I  don't  know  the  exact  title  of 
it — it  is  the  Motion  Picture  Arts  and  Sciences  Group,  so-called.  I 
think  they  are  the  face  of  the  Communist  Party  in  this  community 
today. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Is  that  the  Southern  California  Council  of  Arts, 
Sciences,  and  Professions? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  That's  it. 

Mr.  Jackson.  No  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter  ? 

Mr.  Potter.  Mr.  Berkeley,  when  Sterling  Hayden  appeared  before 
our  committee  during  the  hearings  in  Washington  he  made  reference 
to  passive  membership.  He  stated  at  one  time  he  was  asked  to  become 
a  passive  member  where  he  wouldn't  have  to  attend  meetings.  I  am 
wondering  if  the  passive  membership  could  be  the  same  as  the  mem- 
bership at  large  which  you  spoke  about  in  your  testimony. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  have  never  heard  the  phrase  "passive  member- 
ship," but  it  sounds  like  it  might  be  the  same  thing. 

Mr.  Potter.  While  you  were  in  New  York  and  before  you  came  to 
Hollywood,  were  you  connected  in  any  way  with  the  Group  Theatre  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  No,  sir;  except  I  saw  their  shows.  But  I  had  no 
connection  with  it. 


1612  COMMUNISM   IN  MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Potter.  From  the  experience  you  have  had  in  the  past  with 
the  party  are  you  convinced  that  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party 
today  is  dedicated  to  defend  the  Soviet  Union  over  and  above  their 
citizenship  responsibility  to  defending  the  United  States  of  America  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Mr.  Potter,  I  believe  that  anyone  who  was  then  a 
member  of  the  party  or  joined  the  party  since  1945  and  who  retains 
his  membership  today  is  a  traitor. 

Mr.  Potter.  That's  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Berkeley,  on  behalf  of  the  committee  we  desire  first 
to  express  the  concern  and  regret  that  we  feel  in  that  your  action  in 
coming  before  this  committee  has  occasioned  you  some  annoyance  as 
expressed  in  the  beginning  of  your  testimony.  It  might  be  called  to 
your  attention,  however,  that  you  are  not  the  only  person  engaged 
in  an  effort  to  resist  the  spread  of  this  instrumentality  of  aggression 
and  totalitarianism  in  our  midst  that  has  been  similarly  threatened. 
Those  of  us  who  have  been  engaged  openly  in  this  work  for  quite  a 
long  while  have  gotten  to  the  stage  where  we  no  longer  pay  any  atten- 
tion to  them.  My  observation  has  been  that  they  haven't  got  the 
courage  to  commit  an  act  of  violence  on  anybody,  that  their  work  is 
by  stealth  and  intimidation.  It  takes,  however,  a  good  deal  of  courage 
for  a  man  who  has  once  been  identified  with  an  organization  of  this 
sort,  even  though  he  has  made  a  clean  break  and  evidenced  a  desire 
and  the  zeal  to  combat  the  menace,  to  come  out  in  the  open  and  give 
testimony. 

For  your  cooperation  in  doing  that  the  committee  expresses  to  you 
not  only  our  very  deep  and  sincere  appreciation,  but  the  gratitude 
of  every  liberty-loving  American  citizen.    Thank  you. 

Mr.  Berkeley.  Thank  you  very  much,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  would  like  to  advise  the  committee 
that  we  would  like  to  have  this  witness  remain  here  as  I  would  like 
for  him  to  appear  before  the  committee  in  closed  session  on  several 
matters. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  have  an  idea  the  witness  is  rather  tired  in  that  he  has 
been  on  the  stand  quite  a  long  time.  Could  we  excuse  him  at  2 :  30  for 
a  couple  of  hours  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  be  back  with  us  2  hours  from  now,  sir  ? 

Mr.  Berkeley.  I  will  stay  here  and  await  your  pleasure. 

Mr.  Wood.  Very  well,  until  that  time  the  witness  is  excused. 

Who  do  you  have  next,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Philip  Stevenson. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  Mr.  Stevenson  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  raise  your  right  hand  and  be  sworn  ?  Do  you 
solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  are  about  to  give  this  subcom- 
mittee shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth, 
so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Stevenson,  are  you  represented  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes;  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  For  the  purpose  of  the  record,  will  counsel  be  identified? 

Mr.  Kenny.  Robert  Kenny  and  Ben  Margolis,  of  Los  Angeles. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1613 

TESTIMONY  OF  PHILIP  EDWARD  STEVENSON,  ACCOMPANIED  BY 
HIS  COUNSEL,  ROBERT  KENNY  AND  BEN  MARGOLIS 

Mr.  Wood.  You  are  advised,  sir,  that  you  have  the  right  to  confer 
with  your  counsel,  either  or  both  of  them,  at  any  time  you  desire  in 
connection  with  your  interrogation  while  you  are  before  this  com- 
mittee. It  has  long  been  the  policy  of  this  committee  not  only  to 
permit  but  to  encourage  every  witness  who  comes  before  it  that  desires 
to  do  so  to  have  present  the  counsel  of  his  own  choice  and  make  avail- 
able to  the  witness  the  advice  and  counsel  of  such  attorneys  that  he 
may  select.  Your  attorneys  have  been  before  the  committee  previ- 
ously and  it  isn't  necessary  to  advise  them  as  to  their  rights  and 
privileges  here. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Mr.  Chairman,  I,  too,  have  received  a  telephone 
call  lately  which  might  be  pertinent  to  consider  before  my  testimony 
begins. 

I  received  a  call  from  somebody  the  other  day  who  said  that  he  was 
Mr.  McCarthy  of  the  Associated  Press.  He  said  that  he  had  heard 
that  I  had  received  a  subpena  and  wanted  to  know  if  this  was  true. 

I  said  I  didn't  know  the  fact  had  been  published  but  it  was  true, 
and  he  said  did  I  have  a  statement  to  make.  I  made  a  very  brief 
offhand  statement,  he  thanked  me,  asked  if  I  was  presently  employed 
in  the  motion-picture  industry  and  I  said,  "No;  I  was  not  at  the 
moment."     He  thanked  me  again  and  hung  up. 

This  matter  I  reported  to  my  counsel,  Mr.  Kenny.  Mr.  Kenny  said 
he  knew  of  no  Mr.  McCarthy  on  the  AP,  but  said  he  would  check.  He 
checked  with  the  AP,  found  there  was  no  such  person  and  checked 
with  other  newspapers  and  found  that  no  newspaper  employed  a 
person  of  that  name. 

I  think  the  trouble  with  many  of  us  who  are  subjected  to  these 
hearings  have  been  plagued  with  hoax  telephone  calls,  and  I  thought 
you  would  be  interested  in  hearing  this. 

Mr.  Wood.  Very  interesting. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Stevenson,  what  is  your  full  name,  please? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Philip  Edward  Stevenson. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  was  born  in  New  York  December  31,  1896. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  profession? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  am  a  black-listed  screen  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  been  a  screen  writer? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  have  been  a  screen  writer  only  occasionally  since 
the  spring  of  1944. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  been  your  educational  training  for  your 
profession  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  am  afraid  that  is  a  long  story,  but  I  will  try  to 
give  it  to  you. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Not  in  every  detail,  but  just  in  a  general  way. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Eight.  I  attended  private  schools  in  the  East  and 
an  eastern  university,  and  if  I  am  reluctant  to  name  these  institutions 
it  is  because  no  names,  either  of  persons  or  institutions,  come  off  very 
well  from  being  heard  in  one  of  these  hearings  and,  particularly  in  the 
case  of  these  two,  their  emblematic  color  was  red  in  each  instance, 
which  seems  to  compound  the  difficulty. 


1614  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  May  I  ask  you  if  that  fact  had  anything  to  do  with 
your  deciding  to  go  to  those  two  schools  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  It  had  nothing  to  do  with  it.    It  had  none  whatever. 

Mr.  Wood.  At  this  point,  I  neglected  to  do  so  at  the  beginning  of 
the  testimony,  I  would  like  the  record  to  show  that  of  the  subcommittee 
there  are  present  Messrs.  Walter,  Jackson,  Potter,  and  Wood,  a 
quorum. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  The  school  was  the  Pomphret  School  in  Connecti- 
cut, and  the  university  was  Harvard  University  in  Massachusetts.  I 
did  not  finish  my  4  years  at  Harvard  because  World  War  I  was  de- 
clared, and  on  the  day  of  the  declaration  of  war  I  left  college  with 
the  intention  of  joining  a  service.  I  had  had  poliomj^elitis,  and  my 
right  leg  was  somewhat  affected,  so  I  doubted  that  I  could  get  into  the 
Army  where  hiking  was  a  major  part  of  the  routine,  but  after  3  weeks 
I  joined  the  Navy  and  was  accepted  for  immediate  duty  on  board  ship. 
We  sailed  for  overseas  within  a  couple  of  months — less  than  2  months — 
and  I  served  overseas  until  September  of  1919.  I  should  say  that  in 
the  spring  of  1918,  or  late  spring,  I  went  before  a  medical  commission, 
a  medical  board  in  preparation  for  taking  examinations  for  a  com- 
mission, and  at  that  time  it  was  discovered  that  I  was  suffering  from 
a  slight  case  of  pulmonary  tuberculosis.  As  a  result,  although  I  took 
the  examinations  for  the  commission  and  passed  them,  I  was  not  com- 
missioned. However,  I  was  observed  for  a  week  at  a  naval  hospital, 
and  at  the  end  of  that  time  I  was  returned  to  my  ship.  I  asked  the 
head  of  the  medical  board  if  I  was  not  going  to  be  sent  back,  and  he 
said,  "No,  he  was  under  instruction  to  return  me  to  my  ship."  I  said, 
"It  seems  strange" 

Mr.  Wood.  Is  all  this  conversation  material  to  the  question  asked? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  understood  the  witness  to  say  he  was  only  going 
to  give  a  brief  statement,  but  I  will  have  to  ask  him  to  confine — 

Mr.  Wood.  Giving  conversation  between  he  and  his  physician  dur- 
ing the  first  World  War  would  be  immaterial  to  the  issues  here. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  asked  the  witness  to  briefly  state  what  his  educa- 
tional training  was  for  the  profession  in  which  he  was  now  engaged. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  This  was  rather  intensive  education,  sir,  in  the 
question  of  war,  for  example.  I  was  not  invalided  out  of  the  service. 
I  served  overseas  for  another  year  and  a  half  after  that,  and  4  days 
after  my  discharge  the  disease  was  pronounced  active  and  I  had  to 
go  to  a  sanatorium.  For  the  next  12  to  14  years  I  spent  a  good  deal 
of  my  time  in  bed,  and  here  was  where  my  real  education  began.  I 
did  a  great  deal  of  reading,  and  I  began  to  do  some  writing.  The  two 
areas  in  which,  I  suppose,  I  did  the  most  research  was  in  the  ques- 
tion of  the  cause  and  prevention  of  war,  and  the  other  was  in  the 
beginnings  of  our  Republic,  the  United  States.  I  went  very  thorough- 
ly into  the  period  of  the  founding  fathers,  and  I  must  beg  your  in- 
dulgence if,  in  the  course  of  this  inquiry,  I  refer  to  them  frequently, 
because  they  have  had  a  greater  influence  upon  me  than  any  group  of 
men  who  ever  lived. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  understood  you  to  say  that  you  began  the  prac- 
tice of  your  profession  in  1944. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  As  a  screen  writer  in  1944. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  As  a  screen  writer. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  In  1944.  I  began  to  write,  I  believe,  in  1920  while 
I  was  in  bed. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1615 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  lone:  have  yon  lived  in  California? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Since  that  time;  since  the  spring:  of  1944. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  major  credits  have  you  received  in  the  field 
of  screen  writing? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  The  only  credit  I  have  received  was  on  my  first 
picture,  which  was  the  Ernie  Pyle  story  of  GI  Joe  which,  I  think  by 
common  consent  of  the  GI's,  was  perhaps  the  best  picture  done  on 
World  War  II  and  it  was  an  extremely  lucky  first  break. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Stevenson,  this  committee  is  now  engaged  in  an 
investigation  and  study  of  the  extent  of  Communist  infiltration  into 
the  moving-picture  industry.  If  you  have  been  in  a  position,  since 
1944,  in  the  practice  of  your  profession,  to  see  or  to  know  anything 
regarding  the  extent  of  Communist  infiltration,  I  would  like  to  call 
upon  you  to  cooperate  with  this  committee  in  giving  it  such  informa- 
tion as  you  have. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes,  sir.  I  am  going  to  claim  my  privileges  under 
the  first  and  fifth  amendments  of  the  Constitution  in  connection  with 
such  questions,  and  I  hope  I  may  observe  that  repeatedly  the  attempt 
has  been  made  here  to  say  that  men  are  hiding  behind  these  valuable 
protections  to  the  individual. 

I  want  to  make  it  perfectly  clear  that  I  am  not  hiding  behind  any- 
thing ;  that  the  Bill  of  Rights  was  designed,  according  to  my  research, 
to  protect  the  individual  from  heresy  hunting  in  the  Government. 

(At  this  time  Representative  Clyde  Doyle  entered  the  hearing, 
room.) 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Stevenson,  please  give  the  committee  credit  for 
understanding  the  Bill  of  Rights  without  going  into  a  lecture.  What 
is  your  answer,  that  you  decline  to  answer  anything  with  reference  to 
any  connection  with  communism?     Is  that  what  you  mean? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  That  is  correct,  sir;  but  I  do  think  people  are  under 
a  misapprehension  concerning  this,  and  I  would  like  a  chance  to  make 
people 

Mr.  Wood.  I  think  this  is  a  question  of  their  own  apprehensions  and 
the  inferences  that  may  be  legitimately  drawn  from  a  man  who  re- 
fuses to  answer  the  questions  on  whether  or  not  he  has  Communist 
connections  on  the  grounds  of  self-incrimination.  I  don't  think  the 
committee  needs  any  lecture  about  that. 

Any  further  questions,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Stevenson,  this  committee  has  heard  some  evi- 
dence through  Mr.  Collins  regarding  the  activity  of  the  Communist 
Party  in  the  extension  of  the  existence  of  the  Hollywood  Writers' 
Mobilization  for  the  purpose  of  using  it  as  a  tool  for  propaganda  pur- 
poses. Were  you  at  any  time  a  member  of  the  Hollywood  Writers' 
Mobilization,  and  will  you  tell  the  committee  what  you  know  about 
Communist  influence  within  that  organization  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Again,  sir,  I  want  to  express  it  is  a  feeling  of  duty 
on  my  part  to  use  the  Bill  of  Rights  and  the  purpose  for  which  it  was 
intended,  and  I  do  decline  because  I  must  decline  to  answer  that 
question  on  the  grounds  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Wood.  Let  it  be  distinctly  understood  now  and  hereafter,  so 
long  as  you  are  on  the  witness  stand  before  this  committee,  that  there 
isn't  any  compulsion  on  you  to  decline  to  answer  any  question  by  this 
committee  or  otherwise,  unless  it  is  compulsion  of  your  own  conscience.' 


1616  COMMUNISM   IN  MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Stevenson.  It  is  a  compulsion  of  my  own  conscience,  sir,  and 
conscience  is  the  sovereign  of  the  mind,  in  my  opinion. 

Mr.  Wood.  Then  under  the  prompting  of  your  conscience,  what  is 
your  answer  to  the  question  ?    Do  j^ou  answer  it  or  not  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  decline  to  answer  the  question,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  All  right.  Well,  the  answer  that  you  "must  decline  to 
answer  it"  is  an  improper  answer  to  this  committee,  because  that  indi- 
cates that  we  are  putting  you  under  some  compulsion  about  it  when 
we  aren't  doing  anything. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  am  under  compulsion,  according  to  my  ideas  and 
Mr.  Jefferson's  ideas,  of  what  an  American  citizen  should  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  We  are  not  concerned  about  your  ideas.  We  are  con- 
cerned about  your  actions,  whether  you  answer  the  question  or  not. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Is  that  a  question,  sir  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  I  say  that  is  our  concern,  whether  you  answer  the  ques- 
tion or  not.    I  understood  you  declined  to  answer;  is  that  right? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  That's  correct. 

Mr.  Wood.  For  reasons  that  you  have  stated? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  That's  right. 

Mr.  Wood.  Proceed,  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Sam  Moore  also  appeared  as  a  witness  before 
this  committee,  and  he  refused  to  testify  regarding  his  position  on  the 
radio  committee  of  the  Hollywood  Writers'  Mobilization.  Did  you 
attend  a  meeting  of  that  group,  the  radio  committee  of  the  Hollywood 
Writers'  Mobilization,  which  discussed  the  plans  of  that  body? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Again  I  think  I  shall  decline  to  answer  on  the 
grounds  of  possible  self-incrimination. 

Mr.  Wood.  You  say  you  think  you  will.    Do  you  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  All  right.  Let  the  record  show  that  Mr.  Doyle  is  now 
present. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  jou  recall  the  existence  of  a  plan  designed  to 
place  before  the  public  information  relating  to  the  atomic  bomb  in 
such  a  manner  as  to  use  it  for  propaganda  purposes  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Excuse  me,  sir.  I  may  have  missed  the  beginning 
of  that  question.    About  what  organization  or  group,  are  you  talking? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  am  not  certain  whether  I  stated  that.  Will  you 
read  the  question  back  ? 

(The  question  was  read  by  the  reporter,  as  follows  :) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  the  existence  of  a  plan  designed  to  place  before 
the  public  information  relating  to  the  atomic  bomb  in  such  a  manner  as  to  use 
it  for  propaganda  purposes? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  am  referring  to  a  plan  that  was  put  into  effect, 
or  allegedly  so,  by  the  Hollywood  Writers'  Mobilization. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Well,  again  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  grounds 
previously  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  name  of  Nora  Hallgren,  secretary  to  a  person 
known  as  J.  Peters,  has  come  before  the  committee  frequently.  Can 
you  give  the  committee  any  information  relating  to  Nora  Hellgren  or 
any  of  her  activities  in  Hollywood  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Well,  as  to  the  names  of  persons  alleged  to  have 
undertaken  subversive  activities  before  this  committee  is  concerned, 
I  shall  again  decline  to  answer  the  questions  on  the  grounds  of  possible 
self-incrimination. 


COMMUNISM   EST   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1617 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  refuse  to  answer  the  question  which  I  asked 
you? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  said  I  did,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Nora  Hallgren? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same 
grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Have  you  at  any  time  been  a  member  of  the  execu- 
tive board  of  the  League  of  American  Writers  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  believe  that  is  another  such  organization,  and 
I  decline  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  like  to  ask  you  if  you  participated  in  a 
meeting  of  an  organization  generally  referred  to  as  the  thought- 
control  conference.  It  was  a  conference  which  was  held  on  July  7, 
1947,  and  was  sponsored  by  the  Hollywood  Arts,  Sciences,  and  Pro- 
fessions Council  of  the  Progressive  Citizens  of  America. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Is  that  a  question  % 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  like  to  ask  you  whether  or  not  you  par- 
ticipated in  that  convention  which  called  for  the  ending  of  the  loyalty 
directive  of  President  Truman  and  demanding  that  the  House  Com- 
mittee on  Un-American  Activities  be  done  away  with  as  having  no 
constitutional  basis,  and  also  as  to  whether  or  not  there  was  a  resolu- 
tion adopted  at  this  conference  calling  for  the  freeing  of  Gerhart 
Eisler,  Carl  Marzani,  and  the  16  defendants  connected  with  the  Joint 
Anti-Fascist  Committee. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  That  is  a  whole  omnibus  question. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  like  for  you  to  tell  us  what  you  know  about 
that  convention,  if  you  participated  in  it. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  There  is  an  ironic  signficance,  it  seems  to  me,  in 
the  fact  that  a  conference  on  thought  control  should  be  declared  sub- 
versive because  of  the  organization  sponsoring  it.  But  since  before 
this  committee  there  is  such  evidence 

Mr.  Tavenner.  We  should  like  very  much- 


Mr.  Stevenson.  I  shall  decline  to  answer  the  question  on  the 
grounds  of  self-incrimination,  possibly. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  We  would  like  very  much  for  you  to  explain  your 
connection  with  it,  explain  the  purposes  of  the  thought-control  con- 
ference, which  you  seem  to  think  to  be  a  queer  result  from  having 
been  sponsored  by  some  other  organization,  the  idea  being  that  this 
committee  may  learn  its  true  purposes  and  its  true  activities. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  am  sorry,  Mr.  Prosecutor,  I  must  decline  to- 
answer  on  the  previously  stated  grounds.  I  made  a  slip  of  the  tongue. 
I  see  some  of  the  committee  members,  and  I  couldn't  help  it,  I  feel 
like  a  prisoner  on  the  dock  here,  and  I  feel  as  though  there  were  six 
prosecutors  confronting  me.  I  have  heard  all  morning  talk  about 
hanging  people,  and  this  is  not  a  very  happy  atmosphere  in  which 
to  appear. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  am  not  offended  by  being  referred  to  as  a  prose- 
cutor. I  feel  at  times  it  is  a  very  important  service,  though  that  is 
not  the  purpose  of  this  proceeding. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  That's  why  I  apologize. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Information  has  come  to  the  attention  of  the  com- 
mittee, Mr.  Stevenson,  that  in  1945  you  were  assigned  to  group  11, 
which  is  otherwise  known  as  the  Sunset  cultural  group  of  the  Com- 


1618  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

munist  Party,  and  attached  to  the  fifty-ninth  assembly  district  of 
the  Communist  Political  Association  group.  I  inadvertently  said 
Communist  Party,  but  I  meant  to  say  Communist  Political  Associa- 
tion.   Were  you  a  member  of  that  association? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same 
grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Was  1944  Communist  Political  Association  card 
No.  41784  given  to  you  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same 
grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  According  to  the  Daily  Worker  of  April  5,  1941, 
you  were  listed  as  one  of  the  initial  signers  of  a  call  to  the  Fourth  Con- 
gress of  the  League  of  American  Writers.  If  that  be  true,  will  you 
state  the  circumstances  under  which  you  united  in  that  enterprise  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  My  declination  is  the  same,  sir,  on  the  same 
grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  committee  is  in  possession  of  information  that 
you  at  one  time  or  another  became  active  or  at  least  became  affiliated 
with  organizations  which  have  been  designated  by  the  Attorney  Gen- 
eral of  the  United  States  as  Communist-front  organizations.  Now, 
that  does  not  mean  that  everyone  connected  with  those  organizations 
were  members  of  the  Communist  Party.  But  if  you  were  a  member 
of  any  of  them  we  would  like  to  know  that  fact,  and  we  would  like 
for  you  to  explain  to  the  committee  the  circumstances  under  which 
your  membership  was  obtained  in  those  organizations,  and  what  in- 
fluences, if  any,  were  exerted  by  the  Communist  Party  on  them. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Is  that  the  question,  sir  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  made  that  statement  as  a  preliminary  statement 
to  the  questions  that  I  would  like  to  ask  you.  I  show  you  a  photostatic 
copy  of  pages  20  to  21  of  the  June  1943  issue  of  Soviet  Russia  Today. 
These  pages  contain  an  open  letter  to  the  American  people  wherein 
the  National  Council  of  American-Soviet  Friendship  calls  on  all 
Americans  concerned  with  preserving  United  Nations  unity  to  fight 
the  menacing  campaign  against  our  Soviet  ally.  Among  the  names 
appearing  as  signers  to  this  letter  are  Philip  and  Janet  Stevenson. 
Will  you  examine  the  article  referred  to  and  state  whether  or  not  you 
were  a  signer  of  that  letter  sponsored  by  the  National  Council  of 
American-Soviet  Friendship  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Well,  I  shall  decline  to  answer  that  question,  sir,  on 
the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  summer  of  1938  issue  of  the  League  Bulletin — 
by  League,  I  am  referring  to  the  League  of  American  Writers — lists 
Philip  Stevenson  as  secretary  of  the  league.  Were  you  secretary  of 
the  League  of  American  Writers? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Same  answer,  sir,  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  at  any  time  an  instructor  in  the  Workers' 
School  of  the  League  of  American  Writers,  and  if  so  I  would  like  to 
know  the  circumstances  under  which  your  services  were  acquired 
for  that  purpose? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  must  decline  that  question  on  the  same  grounds, 
sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  show  you  a  photostatic  copy  of  a  press  release 
of  the  National  Federation  for  Constitutional  Liberties.  This  release 
was  an  open  letter  to  the  President  of  the  United  States  and  the  Con- 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1619 

gress,  declaring  defeat  of  Japan  and  her  Axis  partners  will  require 
that  complete  unity  of  our  people,  which  today  is  a  reality,  and  states 
a  position  opposing  was  referred  to  as  antilabor  legislation  as  a  dire 
threat  to  this  essential  unity.  Among  those  listed  as  signing  this 
appeal,  or  this  press  release  of  the  National  Federation  for  Constitu- 
tional Liberties,  is  the  name  of  Philip  Stevenson. 

So  I  would  like  to  ask  you  the  extent  of  your  affiliation  with  that 
organization,  tne  National  Federation  for  Constitutional  Liberties. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same 
grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  It  is  true,  is  it  not,  that  this  organization,  the  Na- 
tional Federation  for  Constitutional  Liberties,  merged  with  the  Inter- 
national Labor  Defense  to  form  what  we  now  know  as  Civil  Rights 
Congress  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question,  sir,  on  the  same 
grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  I  understand  from  your  testimony  that  youi 
decline  to  answer  any  question  that  I  might  ask  you  regarding  your 
knowledge  of  the  operation  of  Communist  fronts  in  this  area,  in 
Hollywood  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  am  not  sure  I  understand  the  question.  I  would 
like  to  confer  with  counsel. 

(The  witness  conferred  with  counsel.) 

Mr.  Stevenson.  If  you  would  like  to  specify  the  fronts,  sir,  I  would 
be  glad  to  answer  as  to  each  one  you  name. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  I  am  not  certain  I  heard  you. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  said  (conferring  with  counsel)  on  each  specific 
question,  sir,  I  will  either  answer  or  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  This  committee  has  received  testimony  through 
Mr.  Collins  and  others,  I  believe  Mr.  Dmytryk,  also,  of  the  important 
part  that  the — I  would  say  principally  from  the  testimony  of  Mr. 
Dmytryk,  of  the  important  part  that  the  Communist-front  organiza- 
tions played  in  the  plan  of  the  Communist  Party  to  organize  the  mov- 
ing-picture industry.  A  man  of  your  intelligence  and  experience,  I 
am  certain,  would  have  valuable  experience  for  this  committee  on  that 
matter,  and  I  honestly  request  that  you  give  the  committee  the  benefit 
of  such  information  that  you  have  on  that  subject. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Is  that  a  question  regarding  some  specific  organiza- 
tion? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  plan  of  the  Communist  Party,  the  method  by 
which  it  proposed  to  use  Communist-front  organizations  in  the  organ- 
ization of  the  Communist  Party  in  the  moving-picture  industry. 
Mr.  Stevenson.  For  example,  what  organization? 
Mr.  Tavenner.  I  think  my  question  was  plain. 
(The  witness  conferred  with  counsel.) 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Did  you  fail  to  understand  it  ? 
Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes ;  I  failed. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  will  repeat  it.  Mr.  Dmytryk  testified  at  con- 
siderable length  as  to  the  plan  of  the  Communist  Party  to  use  Com- 
munist-front organizations  in  its  policy  of  organizing  the  Communist 
Party  in  the  moving-picture  industry.  Now  I  am  asking  you,  if  you 
have  any  information  on  that  subject,  to  give  the  committee  the  benefit 
of  it. 


1620  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes;  I  understand  the  question;  and  I  decline  to 
answer  it,  sir,  on  previously  stated  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  Actors'  Laboratory? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same 
grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Committee  of  One 
Thousand? 

Mr.  Stevenson  (conferring  with  counsel).  Same  answer,  sir,  on 
the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  associated  or  affiliated  in  any  way  with 
Frontier  Films  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson  (conferring  with  counsel).  I  decline  to  answer,  sir, 
on  the  previously  stated  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  wonder  if  I  might  be  allowed  to  offer  a  statement. 
I  would  like  to  ask  permission  to  read  it,  if  I  may,  in  view  of  the  fact 
that  other  witnesses  have  read  at  great  length  from  statements  in  this 
room  as  late  as  this  morning. 

Mr.  Wood.  The  statement  will  be  accepted  as  part  of  the  record. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  asked  for  a  ruling  of  the  Chair,  sir,  whether  I 
would  be  allowed  to  read  the  statement  in  view  of  the  fact  that  pre- 
pared statements  were  read  in  this  committee  room  as  late  as  this 
morning. 

Mr.  Wood.  Prepared  statements  have  never  been  permitted  to  be 
read  except  in  answer  to  questions  where  the  witness  is  answering  the 
questions.  This  committee  has  never  received  a  prepared  statement 
from  a  witness  who  declines  to  answer  questions  that  are  asked  of  him, 
because  there  isn't  any  purpose  that  can  be  served  by  it.  It  is  a  well- 
known  rule  of  law,  as  your  counsel  will  tell  you,  in  procedure  and 
evidence,  that  an  answer  of  a  witness  may  always  be  explained  after 
he  has  answered. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  My  understanding  of  the  functioning  of  congres- 
sional committees  in  general  is  that  generally  preparatory  statements 
are  read  previous  to  the  testimony  of  a  witness.  It  seems  to  me  that  I 
have  read  that  many  times. 

Mr.  Wood.  That  is  not  the  rule  of  this  committee,  as  your  counsel 
well  knows,  and  has  never  been. 

Any  further  questions,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  will  yield  to  Mr.  Walter. 

Mr.  Walter.  Did  you  prepare  this  statement? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  did. 

Mr.  Walter.  The  reason  why  I  ask  is  that  that  is  on  exactly  the 
same  kind  of  stationery  as  all  the  other  statements  and  apparently 
written  on  the  same  typewriter.  I  notice  the  same  characteristics  of 
type. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  It  was  probably  copied  by  the  same  typewriter, 
sir,  but  I  prepared  the  statement  myself. 

Mr.  Walter.  That  is  all. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle. 

Mr  Doyle.  I  think  I  have  no  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson. 

Mr.  Jackson  Mr.  Stevenson,  are  you  presently  a  member  of  the 
Screen  Writers'  Guild  ? 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1621 

Mr  Stevenson.  I  frankly — the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  has  been  on 
two  sides  of  the  fence  in  these  hearings.  I  have  heard-  testimony  to 
the  effect  that  it  was  a  Communist-dominated  organization  and  I  have 
heard  testimony  to  the  effect  that  it  was  free  of  this 

Mr.  Jackson.  Well,  irrespective  of  what  you  may  have  heard,  the 
Screen  Writers'  Guild  has  never  been  cited  by  any  agency  of  the  Gov- 
ernment as  a  subversive  organization. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  am. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  are  a  member  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Yes. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Have  you  been  a  regular  attendant  at  meetings  of  the 
Screen  Writers'  Guild? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Reasonably,  I  think. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Recently. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  think  I  attended  the  last  meeting,  but  it  was  a 
long  time  ago. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Under  the  system  of  proxies  exercised  in  the  Screen 
Writers'  Guild,  who  holds  your  proxy  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  Nobody  holds  my  proxy. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  have  no  proxy  out  ? 

Mr.  Stevenson.  But  I  do  know  that  there  is  a  very  small  group 
that  controls  the  Screen  Writers'  Guild  by  the  use  of  proxies  in  the 
pockets  of  two  or  three  individuals,  as  a  rule;  sometimes  as  many  as 
a  hundred  or  more. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Well,  the  testimony  in  the  record  also  indicates  that 
a  few  years  ago  the  shoe  was  on  the  other  foot,  that  it  was  in  a  large 
part,  controlled  by,  shall  we  say,  those  on  the  other  side  of  the  fence. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  The  proxy  techniques  are  a  very  recent  origin,  in 
the  last  2  years,  I  would  say. 

Mr.  Jackson.  And  in  light  of  the  developments,  I  think  a  very 
worth  while  contribution.  During  the  course  of  your  opening  state- 
ment you  stressed  your  military  service.  Was  that  for  the  purpose  of 
affirming  your  loyalty  and  your  devotion  to  the  American  system 
and  American 

Mr.  Stevenson.  It  was  part  of  my  education,  sir.  If  you  will  re- 
member, it  was  in  answer  to  that  part  of  the  question.  That  is  where 
I  learned  a  great  deal  about  America,  about  war  and  peace,  about  my 
feelings  toward  both. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Well,  if  it  was  intended — I  don't  say  that  it  was 
intended,  but  if  it  was  to  demonstrate  loyalty  because  of  your  service 
to  this  country  in  the  Armed  Forces,  it  might  be  pointed  out  that 
Benedict  Arnold,  among  others,  was  a  distinguished  American  soldier 
before  he  went  down  the  river  and  joined  the  British  forces. 

Mr.  Stevenson.  I  resent  that  implication,  sir. 

Mr.  Jackson.  There  is  no  implication  contained  in  it  so  far  as  you 
are  concerned,  except  to  state  an  historical  fact.  You  have  pointed 
out  a  number  of  historical  facts.  I  feel  free  to  state  one,  myself.  I 
have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter. 

Mr.  Potter.  I  have  no  questions  to  ask  the  military  man. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  further  questions  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  why  this  witness  shouldn't  be  excused? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 


1622  COMMUNISM   IN  MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Wood.  So  ordered. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Dan  James. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  Mr.  Dan  James  ? 

Mr.  James.  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  raise  your  right  hand  and  be  sworn.  Do  you 
solemnly  swear  the  evidence  you  give  the  subcommittee  shall  be  the 
truth,  the  whole  truth  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God? 

Mr.  James.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Have  a  seat,  Mr.  James.   Are  you  represented  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  James.  I  am,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  counsel  please  identify  himself  for  the  record. 

Mr.  Wirin.  My  name  is  still  A.  L.  Wirin,  W-i-r-i-n,  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  James,  following  the  uniform  custom  of  this  com- 
mittee in  all  of  its  investigations  of  permitting  any  witness  who 
appears  before  it  to  have  benefit  of  such  counsel  of  your  own  choice 
as  you  desire,  you  are  instructed  that  you  have  the  privilege  of  con- 
ferring with  your  counsel.  Your  counsel  has  appeared  here  before 
and  is  conscious  of  his  rights  and  privileges. 

Mr.  Wirin.  I  am  thoroughly  familiar  with  your  rules  and  I  shall 
comply  with  them.     Do  you  want — these  may  interfere  with  you. 

Mr.  Wood.  If  the  witness  prefers,  I  will  ask  the  photographers  to 
finish  before  the  witness  starts.  If  he  doesn't  object,  I  will  permit 
them  to  take  pictures  as  they  choose. 

Mr.  Wirin.  He  has  no  objection,  but  to  help  Mr.  Tavenner 's  ques- 
tioning I  thought  it  would  get  them  out  of  the  way  and  then  we  can 
go  on  uninterrupted. 

Mr.  Wood.  Unless  the  witness  objects,  I  am  not  going  to  limit  the 
photographers  during  the  progress  of  testimony,  unless  counsel  ob- 
jects. 

Mr.  Wirin.  Counsel  never  objects. 

Mr.  Wood.  That  is  good.    Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

TESTIMONY  OF  DANIEL  LEWIS  JAMES,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HIS 

COUNSEL,  A.  L.  WIKIN 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  your  full  name,  Mr.  James. 

Mr.  James.  Daniel  Lewis  James. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  and  where  were  you  born  '( 

Mr.  James.  In  Kansas  City,  Mo.,  January  14, 1911. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  profession  ? 

Mr.  James.  I  am  a  free-lance  writer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  been  your  training  for  your  occupation  % 

Mr.  James.  I  attended  a  private  school  in  Kansas  City.  I  went  on 
to  Andover  Academy  for  a  year  and  graduated  from  Yale  University. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  what  was  the  year  of  your  graduation  ? 

Mr.  James.  1933. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  been  your  record  of  employment  ? 

Mr.  James.  I  started  out  rather  slowly  as  a  writer,  sir.  My  first 
couple  of  years  after  getting  out  of  college,  I  was  a  traveling  sales- 
man, which  I  hope  isn't  too  incriminating.  I  was  a  clerk.  I  began 
writing  in  1935,  or  1936.  The  first  few  years  were  extremely  difficult, 
learning  my  craft  and  so  forth.  In  1938  I  came  here  to  Hollywood, 
was  employed  in  an  independent  studio  as  a  sort  of  junior  writer- 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1623 

assistant  to  a  producer.  After  that  I  wrote  a  play  called  Winter 
Soldiers,  which  was  produced  in  New  York  City  in  the  fall  of  1942. 
This  was  then  sold  to  Edward  Small.  I  did  a  screen  play  on  it  but 
the  movie  was — the  screen  play  script  was  shelved.  I  then  engaged 
with  my  wife  in  working  on  her  original  story  of  what  turned  out  to 
be  a  musical  comedy,  Bloomer  Girl.  Since  that  period  my  fortunes 
have  been  rather  bad.  I  have  written  a  novel,  which  was  not  published, 
a  couple  of  plays,  numerous  short  stories,  and  so  forth. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  James,  in  the  course  of  the  testimony  today  you 
have  been  identified  by  a  witness  who  appeared  here,  Mr.  Martin 
Berkeley,  as  having  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party.  There 
has  been  no  testimony  offered  here  that  you  are  now  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party.  If  it  is  true  that  you  were  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  you  would  be  in  a  position  to  assist  this  committee  in  the 
investigation  it  is  now  conducting,  so  my  first  question  is,  have  you  at 
any  time  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  James.  I  would  like  to  answer  that  by  saying  that  I  am  not  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party.  However,  as  to  the  second  part  of 
your  question  I  will  stand  on  the  fifth  amendment  and  refuse  to  answer 
this  question  because  I  feel  it  could  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  actually,  I  asked  you  only  one  question, 
whether  you  had  ever  been  a  member.  You  state  you  are  not  now  a 
member  ? 

Mr.  James.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  did  you  withdraw  from  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  James.  I  would  have  to  decline,  sir,  on  the  same  ground. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  in 
1947  during  the  conduct  of  the  hearings  before  this  committee? 

Mr.  James.  I  will  have  to  decline  again,  sir,  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  After  those  hearings  were  completed  were  you  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  James.  I  will  have  to  decline,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  James,  bear  in  mind  that  so  far  as  this  committee  is 
concerned  you  are  not  under  any  compulsion  to  decline. 

Mr.  James.  Yes.    Did  I  say  "must"  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  You  said  you  must. 

Mr.  James.  Sorry. 

Mr.  Wood.  You  have  to.  The  question  is,  do  you  decline  for  reasons 
stated? 

Mr.  James.  Yes ;  I  do  decline. 

Mr.  Wood.  The  reporter  can't  get  j^our  nod  in  the  record. 

Mr.  James.  I  see.    Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  the  ground  upon  which  you  refuse  to 
answer  the  question  as  to  whether  or  not  you  have  been  a  member  of 
the  Communist  Party  at  any  time? 

Mr.  James.  The  ground,  sir,  is  that  an  American  citizen,  as  I 
understand  it,  under  the  fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution,  is  not 
compelled  to  testify  against  himself  in  such  a  way  as  to  be  incrim- 
inated, prosecuted  in  a  Federal  court — something.  I  am  not  a  law- 
yer, sir.    I  think  that  should  be  sufficient. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  As  I  stated  a  few  moments  ago  to  another  witness, 
Mr.  Dmytryk  testified  at  length  in  the  hearings  conducted  in  Wash- 

81595— 51— pt.  4 15 


1624  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION- PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

ington  regarding  the  part  that  Communist-front  organizations  played 
in  promoting  the  principles  and  the  purposes  of  the  Communist  Party, 
particularly  with  regard  to  the  matter  of  recruitment  into  the  Com- 
munist Party.  Of  course,  as  the  term  indicates,  all  persons  who 
are  members  of  front  organizations  are  not  members  of  the  Commu- 
nist Party,  otherwise  they  would  be  adjuncts  in  the  Communist 
Party.  Now,  I  would  like  to  know  if  you  were  a  member  of  any 
organization  which  has  been  cited  as  a  Communist-front  organiza- 
tion, and  if  you  were,  whether  or  not  you  would  give  this  commit- 
tee the  benefit  of  such  information  as  you  have  as  to  how  you  were 
recruited  into  the  party,  the  purposes  for  which  you  were  recruited 
into  the  party,  and — into  the  front  organization,  and  how  that  or- 
ganization functioned. 

Mr.  James.  Sir,  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge,  I  am  not  a  member 
of  any  Communist-front  organization,  nor  am  I  sympathetic  to  com- 
munism. At  the  same  time,  I  must  decline  to  answer  this  question 
that  you  have  put  to  me  on  the  grounds  stated. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  that  is  a  rather  strange  answer.  If  the 
ground  for  your  refusal  to  testify  is  that  you  fear  incrimination  and, 
at  the  same  time,  you  state  that  you  are  not  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party,  how  can  your  testimony  on  that  subject  tend  to  in- 
criminate you  ? 

Mr.  James.  I  don't  believe  I  am  forced  to  specify  the  area  in  which 
I  feel  an  answer  could  incriminate  me,  sir.  I  understand  it  is  my 
right,  if  it  is  my  honest  and  sincere  feeling  that  it  would  incriminate 
me — it  is  my  right  to  decline  to  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  Wood.  Pardon  the  suggestion.  As  I  understood  the  witness, 
his  answer  was  not  responsive  to  the  question.  The  question  was 
asked  him,  as  I  understood,  whether  or  not  he  had  ever  been  a  mem- 
ber of  any  front  organization  so  designated.  His  answe'r  was  that 
he  is  not  now  a  member  of  any  such  organization,  that  he  knows  of, 
which  is  not  entirely  responsive. 

Mr.  James.  That  was  part  of  my  answer,  sir.  I  followed  that  by 
declining  to  answer  Mr.  Tavenner's  question. 

Mr.  Wood.  Aside  from  that  answer,  you  decline  to  answer  the  ques- 
tion entirely  except  to  that  extent  that  you  are  not  now  a  member? 

Mr.  James.  Yes. 

Mr.  Wood.  That  is  the  way  I  understood  it. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter? 

Mr.  Walter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  You,  Mr.  Doyle? 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  James,  I  think  just  an  instant  ago  in  answer  to 
counsel's  question  about  three  questions  back — I  wrote  down  here  that 
you  said,  "I  am  not  in  sympathy  with  communism."  Didn't  you  so 
state? 

Mr.  James.  I  did,  sir. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  have  you  ever  been  in  sympathy  with  com- 
munism ? 

Mr.  James.  I  would  have  to  decline  to  answer  that  on  the  previous 
grounds  stated. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  do  you  mean  by  previous  grounds  stated? 

Mr.  James.  My  rights  under  the  fifth  amendment  not  to  answer 
a  question  which  I  feel  should  incriminate  me — might  incriminate 
me. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION- PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1625 

Mr.  Doyle.  That  what? 

Mr.  James.  Not  to  give  an  answer  which  might  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Yes;  but  that  only  applies  to  a  criminal  prosecution, 
doesn't  it,  or  a  criminal  case? 

Mr.  James.  I  think  it  applies,  also,  sir,  to  proceedings  before  this 
committee.    I  have  been  here  for  some  3  days 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  have  noticed  you  here  every  day.  That  led  me  to 
ask  you  this  question :  If  you  are  not  now  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  and  not  in  sympathy  with  the  purpose  of  communism, 
why,  all  this  morning  and  every  time  that  Mr.  Berkeley  mentioned 
the  name  of  a  Communist,  did  you  make  a  note  of  it  in  the  room? 
I  saw  you  doing  so,  didn.'t  I  ? 

Mr.  James.  Yes ;  I  have  that  list  in  my  pocket  right  now. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Why  did  you  make  that  list? 

Mr.  James.  The  reason  I  made  that  list,  sir,  was  because  I  wanted 
to  think  of  the  number  of  people  who  were  going  to  be  touched  by 
Mr.  Berkeley's  testimony,  a  number  of  people  who  would  suffer  from 
Mr.  Berkeley's  testimony. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  you  go  out  and  telephone  any  of  them  ? 

Mr.  James.  I  did  not. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  you  telephone  anyone  else  in  connection  with  them  ? 

Mr.  James.  No,  sir.  I  telephoned  to  my  lawyer  to  be  sure  he  would 
be  here  at  my  side  this  afternoon,  although 

Mr.  Wirin.  Apparently 

Mr.  Doyle.  We  are  always  glad  to  have  counsel  present. 

Mr.  Wirin.  Apparently  he  didn't  need  any  help. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  realize  he  has  good  legal  advice. 

Mr.  Wirin.  I  am  glad  to  be  here. 

Mr.  Doyle.  But  I  couldn't  help  but  notice,  Mr.  James,  that  you 
were  doing  that  and  I — in  view  of  your  answer  that  you  are  not  now 
a  Communist,  do  you  want  me  to  understand  that  you  may  have  been 
one  yesterday  ? 

Mr.  James.  Sir,  I  am  sorry  you  have  raised  this  question,  but 
I  shall  have  to  decline  to  answer  this  on  previous  grounds — previously 
stated  grounds. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  you  and  your  wife  have  been  here  ever  since  the 
hearings  have  opened.  You  are  both  young  people,  I  notice.  I  am 
glad  you  are,  because  you  have  more  time  to  serve  your  country  than 
some  of  us  that  are  older.  That  leads  me  to  ask  you  this  question : 
You  heard  me  ask  yesterday  and  the  day  before,  witnesses  whether  or 
not  they  believed  that  the  purpose  of  this  committee,  as  assigned  to 
it  by  the  United  States  Congress,  to  investigate  subversive  persons 
and  subversive  programs,  was  an  important  function.  I  am  sure  you 
heard  that,  didn't  you  ?  You  shook  your  head.  The  shorthand  writer 
can't  take  the  shake  of  your  head  in  his  notes. 

Mr.  James.  Yes;  I  did  hear  it,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  heard  that.  What  is  your  answer  to  that  same 
question  ? 

Mr.  James.  I  am  not  sure  just  what  the  question  was,  but  I  am 
aware  of  the  act  of  Congress  under  which  this  committee  operates. 
At  the  same  time,  I  have  said  that  I  am  not  sympathetic  to  commu- 
nism and  I  must,  to  be  fair,  say  that  I  am  not  sympathetic  to  this  in- 
vestigation, not  so  much  in  terms  of  myself  or  people  who  come  before 
it  as  I  am  in  terms  of  what  it  could  do  to  contribute  to  a  certain 


1626  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

general  hysteria  in  this  country,  such  as  our  President  has  talked 
about.  1  don't  know  if  I  am  talking  too  much,  but  I  am  a  writer,  sir, 
and  I  would  hate  to  see  any  kind  of  censorship  come  out  of  these  pro- 
ceedings. I  don't  know  whether  this  is  at  all  your  intention,  but  I 
would  hate  to  see  it.  I  have  in  my  pocket  a  little  brown  book.  If 
some  of  you  gentlemen  would  like  to  see  it,  it  is  in  French.  Now,  this 
is  one  of  the  early  editions.    It  is  from  my  own  library. 

Mr.  Doyle.  May  I 

Mr.  James.  Yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  realize  that  you  have  come  prepared  to  make  a  speech, 
if  you  have  the  opportunity,  in  spite  of  the  fact  that  you  are  not  in 
sympathy  with  communism,  you  say,  but  I  want  to  ask  you  again,  if 
you  are  being  frank  and  honest  with  us — and  I  don't  mean  to  impute 
anything  less  than  honesty  and  frankness  to  you,  but  if  you  really 
are  sincere,  when  you  say  you  are  not  a  Communist,  why  can't  you 
be  equally  as  sincere  instead  of  claiming  the  fifth  amendment  by  tell- 
ing us  when  you  stopped  being  a  Communist,  if  you  ever  were  ?  Is 
that  a  fair  way  to  put  a  question  ? 

Mr.  James.  Sir,  yes,  I  am  standing  on  what  I  understand  is  my 
right  under  the  fifth  amendment.  I  feel  that  in  addition — inciden- 
tally, sir,  this  takes  a  considerable  amount  of  courage,  though  I  expect 
no  applause  either  from  this  committee,  nor  from  the  People's  World 
nor  from  the  Daily  Worker.  This  is  a  lonely,  lonely  position,  and  I  as- 
sure you  that  when  I  am  saying  that  I  am  not  a  Communist,  I  am  mean- 
ing it. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  am  willing  to  take  your  word  at  a  hundred  percent 
face  value.     You  would  want  me  to,  because  you  are  under  oath. 

Mr.  James.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  But  I  still  don't  understand  why  you,  claiming  what 
you  claim,  that  you  are  not  in  sympathy  with  the  purposes  of  com- 
munism, you  are  unwilling  to  help  the  committee  to  get  into  the  field 
of  discovering  people  and  programs  which  are  subversive. 

Mr.  James.  Sir,  I  think  the  committee — I  think  it  is  necessary  for 
there  to  be  an  investigation  in  this  country  of  subversive  organiza- 
tions. At  the  same  time  I  feel  that  this  committee  in  its  work  has 
frequently  in  trying  to  root  out  the  weeds  perhaps  has  rooted  out 
same  of  the  crop,  too.    Maybe  the  important  parts  of  the  crop. 

Mr.  Doyle.  My  closing  word  with  you,  because  our  time  is  limited, 
is  two  things.  First,  you  have  apparently  come  quite  a  ways  and 
are  willing  to  state  that  you  are  not  now  a  Communist.  That,  of 
course,  leaves  inferentially  to  me,  I  am  a  lawyer,  and  you  have  an  able 
lawyer  by  your  side,  inferentially,  at  least,  that  leaves  in  my  mind 
the  question  of  how  recently  you  were  a  Communist,  without  doubt- 
ing your  statement.  Now,  I  am  urging  you  and  your  wife,  as  young 
people,  to  come  into  the  area  of  actively  and  vigorously  helping 
this  congressional  committee  investigate  the  field  of  subversive  peo- 
ples and  programs  that  you  have  stated  you  felt  it  was  necessary 
to  investigate.  I  heard  you  also  say  that  maybe  we  are  doing  some 
injury.  I  assure  you  we  are  not  trying  to.  We  are  trying  to  avoid 
that  sort  of  thing.  But  I  also  want  you  to  believe  me  when  I  say,  and 
I  won't  take  more  of  your  time,  because  my  colleagues  should  have 
time  to  ask  questions  if  they  want  to — believe  me  when  I  say  that  I,  as 
a  fellow  citizen  of  yours  in  California,  find  it  very  difficult  indeed,  in 
performing  my  congressional  duties,  and  which  I  hope  always  to 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1627 

do  within  the  framework  of  the  Constitution,  to  understand  why 
so  many  people  who  come  before  this  committee  claim  the  privilege 
of  the  fifth  amendment.  And  I  recognize  we  have  that  right  and 
must  always  preserve  it  and  protect  it.  I  don't  understand  why 
they  claim  that  privilege  if  they  are  honest-to-God  in  their  state- 
ment when  they  say  they  want  to  weed  out  subversive  people  and 
subversive  programs. 

Thank  you  very  much  for  allowing  me  to  speak  with  you. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson? 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mr.  James,  in  light  of  your  statement  that  you  are 
opposed  to  communism,  do  you  consider  communism  to  be  in  the 
nature  of  a  conspiracy? 

Mr.  James.  I  don't  know  whether  it  is  a  conspiracy  or  not.  I 
have  heard  charges,  it  has  not  yet  so  been  proved  to  be.  I  can  oppose 
many  things  without  considering  them  conspiracies,  world  con- 
spiracies, or  whatever.  I  think  in  a  time  of  crisis  like  this  it  behooves 
us  all  to  be  a  little  careful  when  we  call  something  a  conspiracy,  to 
slow  down  on  the  emotional  word,  or  else  we  build  up  on  our  side  the 
same  type  of  name-calling  that  we  hear  coming  from  the  Russian 
side  in  the  present  situation. 

Mr.  Jackson.  That  is  very  broad  and  glittering  statement.  How- 
ever, it  seems  to  me  that  the  time  has  come  to  be  an  American  or  not 
an  American.    The  time  has  come  for  a  lot  of  people 

Mr.  Wirin.  May  I  interrupt? 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  may  not  interrupt  me.  I  have  every  right  to 
make  a  statement.  There  have  been  a  lot  of  speeches  made  here  to- 
day and  I  am  only  saying  that  every  American  should  make  up  his 
mind  whether  he  is  an  American  or  whether  he  owes  his  allegiance 
somewhere  else. 

Do  you  take  exception  to  that  ? 

Mr.  Wirin.  This  witness  hasn't  made  any  statements  or  speeches. 

Mr.  Wood.  Counsel,  please  restrain  yourself  under  the  rules  of  the 
committee. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  call  communism  an  international  conspiracy  and 
those  engaged  in  it  to  be  traitors,  and  that  is  with  no  particular  refer- 
ence to  this  witness. 

Mr.  Wirin.  Are  you  addressing  me? 

Air.  Jackson.  I  am  not  addressing  you,  I  am  making  an  observa- 
tion. 

Mr.  Wood.  Applause  in  this  room  will  not  be  tolerated,  ladies  and 
gentlemen.  I  have  tried  to  make  that  crystal  clear  at  the  beginning 
of  these  hearings.  I  would  dislike  very  much  to  have  to  clear  the 
room,  but  we  will  tolerate  no  further  outburst  from  the  audience. 

Mr.  Jackson.  If  during  the  war  enemy  paratroops  had  landed  in 
a  field  a  half  a  mile  away  it  would  have  been  the  duty  of  an  American 
citizen  who  had  knowledge  of  the  attack  to  report  immediately  the 
nature  and  extent  of  the  threat.  Those  troops,  those  enemies,  are  in 
our  midst  today  and  it  is  my  contention  that  it  is  still  the  duty  of  every 
loyal  and  devoted  American  citizen  to  forego  double-talk,  be  an  Amer- 
ican, and  tell  what  he  knows.  Frankly,  I  deplore  the  fact  that  wit- 
nesses take  the  position  that  they  owe  no  obligation  to  disclose  the 
associations  and  the  nature  of  this  conspiracy,  and  I  repeat  it  is  a 
conspiracy. 

Mr.  James.  Sir,  I  feel 


1628  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  James.  Sir,  I  feel  within  myself  as  loyal  an  American  citizen 
as  you  are  and  as  ready  to  come  to  the  defense  of  my  country.  I  am 
sorry  that  we  part  in  this  other  respect. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  am  sorry  that  we  part  company,  too.  I  wish  that 
you  would  show  a  willingness  to  cooperate  not  only  with  the  commit- 
tee but  with  the  Congress  of  the  United  States  and  the  people  of  the 
United  States  who  look  to  this  committee  to  do  the  job  that  has  been 
assigned  to  it. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter. 

Mr.  Potter.  Mr.  James,  in  your  testimony  you  stated  that  you  are 
not  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  and  you  are  not  in  sym- 
pathy with  its  objectives.    I  assume  that  is  what  you  meant  ? 

Mr.  James.  That  is  correct.  There  is  a  technicality.  I  did  not 
say  I  was  not  now,  I  said  I  am  not  a  member. 

Mr.  Potter.  All  right,  I  didn't  mean  to  put  any  words  in  your  testi- 
mony. I  would  like  to  ask  whether  it  is  the  policies  or  the  aims  or 
objectives  of  the  Communist  Party  that  you  are  in  disagreement  with. 

Mr.  James.  I  am  not  familiar  with  all  the  policies  and  aims  of  the 
Communist  Party  at  present.  I  am  in  disagreement  with  the  Com- 
munist Party  on  its  stand  on  the  Korean  war ;  I  am  in  disagreement 
with  the  Communist  Party  on  its  stand  on  the  Soviet  Union  and  the 
various  countries  like  Czechoslovakia,  Poland,  and  so  forth. 

Mr.  Potter.  You  have  been  quite  concerned,  as  you  stated  in  your 
testimony,  concerning  the  fact  that  this  committee  might  endeavor  at 
some  time  and  some  way  to  establish  some  type  of  censorship,  which 
I  wish  to  assure  you  that  it  is  not  the  intent  of  the  committee  nor  is  it 
within  the  province  of  the  committee  to  do  so  even  if  it  should  wish 
to.  I  am  just  wondering  how  you  can  justify  your  position  of  not 
cooperating  with  the  committee  at  a  time  when  we  are  drafting  men 
to  fight  people  in  Korea  who  are  a  part  of  the  same  Communist  organi- 
zation which  happens  to  be  in  a  different  country  but  under  the  same 
leadership  as  when  out  here.  It  is  difficult  to  see  the  consistency  that 
you  claim  in  your  answer  to  the  questions  that  you  are  not  now  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party,  but  you  fail  to  aid  the  committee  in 
endeavoring  to  find  out  the  actions  of  the  party  here  in  this  country 
when  at  the  same  time  we  are  drafting  men,  in  your  own  home  town, 
men  about  our  age,  to  fight  this  very  ideology  that  you  are  now  en- 
deavoring to  protect. 

Mr.  James.  Sir,  if  I  felt  that  the  revealing  of  names,  and  so  forth, 
would  help  this  committee,  I  mean  would  help  our  Government  in  its 
war  in  Korea,  and  so  forth,  my  answer  would  perhaps  be  different. 
I  do  not  feel  that  to  be  the  case. 

Mr.  Potter.  If  during  World  War  II  we  had,  and  I  assume  that 
we  did  have  at  that  time  through  the  German  Bund  here  in  this 
country,  an  organization  who  was  taking  their  advice  and  directives 
from  our  enemy,  from  Germany  at  that  time,  would  you  have  then 
been  reluctant  to  name  names  as  you  are  today  ? 

Mr.  James  (conferring  with  counsel).  I  think  that  is  a  speculative 
question.    I  would  like  to  leave  it  there. 

Mr.  Potter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Ordinarily,  Mr.  James,  I  do  not  undertake  to  question 
witnesses,  certainly  to  any  great  extent,  but  your  testimony  here  has 
left  me  in  a  muddled  position  and  I  feel  I  must  delve  a  little  bit  fur- 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1629 

ther  into  a  few  phases  of  your  testimony.  I  don't  think  any  impar- 
tial person  could  listen  to  your  testimony  here,  and  I  believe  you 
would  agree  if  you  were  here  and  I  was  there  giving  the  same  testi- 
mony, that  you  would  assume  the  same  attitude,  but  that  at  some 
time  in  the  past,  however  recent  it  may  be,  you  held  membership  in 
the  Communist  Party.  I  think  the  last  statement  that  you  made  to 
the  effect  that  if  you  thought  it  would  be  of  benefit  to  the  war  effort 
you  would  reveal  the  names,  or  to  further  illustrate  the  inference  that 
you  have  held  membership  in  this  organization,  I  would  like,  and 
for  the  moment,  am  attaching  utmost  good  faith  to  your  statement 
that  you  do  not  now  sympathize  with  the  aims  and  purposes  of  the 
Communist  Party.  I  must  assume  from  that,  and  I  think  any  fair- 
minded  person  must  likewise  assume  from  it,  that  something  has 
happened  since  you  took  membership  in  this  organization  to  make 
its  membership  repugnant  to  you,  otherwise  there  would  have  been 
no  necessity  for  you  to  make  a  break  from  it. 

If  that  is  true,  and  if  you  feel  that  continued  membership  in  the 
party  renders  you  a  less  worthy  citizen  of  America  than  you  could  be 
out  of  it,  then  don't  you  think  you  owe  an  obligation  to  aid  others  in  , 
the  same  category  that  you  were  once  in.  to  take  a  like  position  about  it  ? 
(The  witness  conferred  with  counsel.) 
Mr.  Wirin.  May  I  consult  with  him  for  a  moment  ? 
Mr.  Wood.  You  may  consult  with  him  as  much  as  you  desire,  sir. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  call  attention  to  the  fact  that  I 
am  advised  from  the  press  section  that  they  cannot  hear  what  is  being 
said.     I  don't  know  whether  you  can  beam  the  amplifying  system 
more  toward  that  area  or  not. 

Mr.  James.  Sir,  this  question  of  yours  implies  something  which  I 
have  neither  affirmed  nor  denied,  as  I  believe  my  refusal  was. 
Mi1.  Wood.  That  is  correct,  sir. 

Mr.  James.  In  general,  though,  I  would  say  every  man  in  every 
crisis  of  his  life  makes  up  his  own  mind  as  to  what  he  does. 

Mr.  Wood.  One  other  thing  you  testified  to  that  I  must  take  excep- 
tion to,  and  that  is  when  you  stated  that  you  feared  that  the  action  of 
this  committee  in  seeking  to  root  out  the  weeds  had  also  accomplished 
the  purpose  of  rooting  out  some  of  the  crops. 

This  committee  isn't  rooting  out  any  crops  from  any  source.  If 
any  usefulness  of  any  person  whose  name  may  be  used  in  connection 
with  the  activities  of  this  committee  may  suffer  as  a  consequence 
thereof,  the  responsibility  rests  squarely  upon  that  witness.  I  make 
that  statement  in  connection  with  your  testimony  that  you  took  a  list 
of  the  names  that  were  given  here  by  previous  witnesses  for  the  pur- 
pose of  keeping  in  mind  those  people  who  were  going  to  suffer  as  a 
result  of  their  activities  before  this  committee.  I  point  out  to  you 
again,  sir,  that  it  has  been  the  policy  of  this  committee,  since  I  have 
been  connected  with  it,  and  still  is,  that  we  are  not  only  glad  to  give 
permission  but  will  gladly  welcome  the  presence  before  this  commit- 
tee of  any  person  whose  name  has  been  used  by  anybody  in  connection 
with  the  testimony  before  this  committee,  either  denying  anything 
that  is  said  with  reference  to  their  actions  or  conduct,  or  to  affirm  it  or 
to  explain  it.     That  opportunity  is  now  being  afforded  to  you. 

There  can  be  no  odium  attached  to  any  person  who  may' have  made 
a  mistake  and  have  seen  that  they  have  made  a  mistake  and  seek  to 
rectify  it,  because  if  there  was  we  would  give  lie  to  the  advent  of  Jesus 


1630  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Christ  in  this  world,  who  came  here  for  the  purpose  of  making  possible 
forgiveness  upon  repentance.  I  know  of  no  better  forum  that  could  be 
provided  for  you  today  to  let  all  of  the  acquaintances  that  you  have, 
in  the  world  so  far  as  that  is  concerned,  know  if  it  is  true  that  you 
have  completely  broken  from  all  your  ties  with  this  subversive  organ- 
ization, if  indeed  you  have  had  such  ties,  which  you  have  given  every 
inference  that  you  have  had.  I  regret  very  much  that  you  haven't 
seen  fit  to  take  advantage  of  that  opportunity. 

With  reference  to  any  other  persons  whose  names  have  been  used 
that  has  been  referred  to  as  having  been  injured  by  the  action  of 
this  committee,  if  they  don't  come  here  themselves  and  take  advantage 
of  this  same  forum  to  deny,  affirm,  or  explain,  then  the  results  of  the 
use  of  their  names  here  are  squarely  upon  their  shoulders  and  not  upon 
the  shoulders  of  this  committee,  because  this  committee  didn't  re- 
quire them  to  enter  any  organization  that  they  may  have  entered. 
They  went  into  it  without  any  sort  of  action,  conduct,  or  encourage- 
ment from  this  committee.  So  I  just  couldn't  let  go  unchallenged 
that  accusation  that  you  made,  because  it  isn't  supported  by  any  fact 
on  this  earth. 

Do  you  desire  to  offer  any  fact  as  evidence  of  the  efficacy  of  the  state- 
ment you  made  that  people  were  going  to  be  punished  as  a  result  of 
the  activities  of  this  committee?  Do  you  want  to  offer  any  justifi- 
cation for  such  an  accusation  ?    If  so  I  will  be  glad  to  hear  you. 

Mr.  James.  Sir,  this  committee  has  been  set  up  to  investigate  com- 
munism. However,  this  committee  should  not  feel  that  only  those 
people  who  are  willing  to  totally  cooperate  with  the  committee  are 
good  Americans,  and  that  is  the  implication  of  the  chairman's  speech. 
There  are  many  people  who  have  never  been  connected  with  commu- 
nism at  all  who  have  for  one  reason  or  another  opposed  this  committee. 
The  New  Yorker  magazine,  not  a  political  magazine,  sir,  has  looked 
with  some  fear  on  what  this  committee  might  be  doing  to  the  cause 
of  writing  in  this  country. 

Mr.  Wood.  In  that  connection  I  take  issue  with  you  again,  and 
deny  that  the  statement  you  made  is  supported  by  any  fact.  I  hope 
the  time  will  never  come  when  I,  or  any  other  Member  of  Congress, 
objects  to  constructive  criticism  of  any  act  that  I  perform.  I  welcome 
it.  I  have  never  sought  it,  nor  has  any  member  of  this  committee, 
and  certainly  not  as  a  committee  action,  ever  sought  to  penalize 
or  to  even  criticize  any  person  who  constructively  criticizes  our  action, 
because  we  welcome  it.  We  know  we  are  not  perfect  and  we  are  trying 
in  our  humble  way  to  do  the  job  that  the  American  people,  through  its 
representatives  in  Congress,  have  evolved  upon  our  shoulders. 

Is  there  any  further  question,  Mr.  Counsel? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  there  are  not,  Mr.  Chairman.     . 

Mr.  Wood.  The  witness  may  be  excused  from  further  attendance. 

Have  you  any  other  witnesses? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  believe  we  will  take  a  recess  for  about  15  minutes  at 
this  time. 

(A  short  recess  was  taken.) 

Mr.  Wood.  Please  let's  have  order  in  the  hearing  room.  Are  you 
ready  to  proceed,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes,  sir. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1631 

Mr.  Wood.  The  record  will  show  that  the  full  subcommittee  is 
present.    Whom  will  you  call? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mrs.  Lilith  James. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mrs.  James,  come  forward.  Will  you  please  hold  up 
your  right  hand  and  be  sworn?  You  do  solemnly  swear  the  evidence 
you  give  this  subcommittee  will  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and 
nothing  but  the  truth  ? 

Mrs.  James.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Be  seated.     Are  you  represented  by  counsel,  Mrs.  James  ? 

Mrs.  James.  Yes,  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  For  the  record,  will  counsel  identify  himself  again. 

Mr.  Wirin.  A.  L.  Wirin,  Los  Angeles. 

Mr.  Wood.  Proceed,  counsel. 

TESTIMONY  OF  MRS.  LILITH  JAMES,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  HER 

COUNSEL,  A.  L.  WIRIN 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  Mrs.  Lilith  James  ? 

Mrs.  James.  Yes,  I  am. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  are  the  wife  of  Mr.  Dan  James  ? 

Mrs.  James.  Yes,  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mrs.  James,  I  wonder  if  you  would  mind  pulling  your 
chair  just  a  little  closer  to  the  table  and  maybe  the  amplifier  will  carry 
your  voice  a  little  better. 

Mrs.  James.  My  name  is  Lilith  James. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  state  that  again? 

Mrs.  James.  Lilith,  L-i-1-i-t-h. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  spell  it  again  ? 

Mrs.  James.  L-i-1-i-t-h. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  In  what  profession  are  you  engaged,  Mrs.  James? 

Mrs.  James.  I  am  a  writer-housewife. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  been  engaged  in  the  profession 
of  writing? 

Mrs.  James.  My  first  writing  was  in  connection  with  a  musical, 
Bloomer  Girl,  which  was  produced  in  1944. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  were  you  then  living  ? 

Mrs.  James.  In  Hollywood. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mrs.  James,  did  you  hear  the  testimony  this  morning 
of  Mr.  Martin  Berkeley  ? 

Mrs.  James.  Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Berkeley,  as  you  may  have  heard,  testified  that 
you  were  at  one  time  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party.  I  would  like 
to  ask  you  if  you  have  ever  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mrs.  James.  I  am  not  a  Communist,  Mr.  Tavenner,  but  I  decline 
to  answer  the  rest  of  the  questions  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amend- 
ment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  haven't  asked  you  but  one  part  of  the  question 
that  you  think  I  have  asked  you. 

Mrs.  James.  All  right. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  My  question  was  whether  you  ever  have  been  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mrs.  James.  I  must  decline — I  will  decline  to  answer  under  the 
fifth  amendment. 


1632  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Tavenner.  But  you  have  indicated,  from  what  you  said,  that 
37ou  are  not  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mrs.  James.  No,  I  am  not,  nor  am  I  a  sympathizer. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Now,  when  did  you  leave  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  James.  I  didn't  say  I  had  ever  been  a  Communist. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  be- 
fore these  hearings  began,  say,  on  Sunday  of  this  past  week? 

Mrs.  James.  I  decline  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  on 
Monday  ? 

Mrs.  James.  I  decline,  Mr.  Tavenner. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  on 
Tuesday  ? 

Mrs.  James.  I  decline. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  when 
you  entered  this  room  today  ? 

Mrs.  James.  No,  I  was  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Were  you  a  member  in  1944  ? 

Mrs.  James.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amend- 
ment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  were  you  engaged  in  the  work  on 
Bloomer  Girl? 

Mrs.  James.  For  about  a  year,  a  year  and  a  half. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  what  period  of  time  was  that? 

Mrs.  James.  Beginning  early  in  1943,  I  believe,  up  until  the  tim« 
of  its  production,  which  was  in  October  of  1944. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Walter,  any  questions  ? 

Mr.  Walter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle,  any  questions? 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  mentioned  you  were  a  writer  and  a  housewife. 

Mrs.  James.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Are  there  some  little  Jameses  ? 

Mrs.  James.  There  is  a  little  James  and  a  big  James. 

Mr.  Doyle.  So  that  you  are  not  now  engaged  in  writing  very  much  ? 

Mrs.  James.  Yes ;  I  am  still  engaged  in  writing. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  noticed  that  your  answer — you  said,  "I  am  not  a 
Communist  and  I  do  not  sympathize  with  communism,"  or  something 
like  that.  You  used  almost  the  exact  wording  that  your  husband  used 
in  the  same  answer.  Now,  I  know  that,  of  course,  you  and  your  hus- 
band have  discussed  this  hearing  and  how  you  would  answer  that 
question,  haven't  you? 

Mrs.  James.  Of  course. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Of  course.  Perfectly  natural  that  you  should.  I  don't 
criticize  you  for  doing  it,  of  course.  I  couldn't  help  but  notice 
that  your  wording  was  almost  exact.  Now,  were  you  a  Commimict. 
30  days  ago  ? 

Mrs.  James.  I  decline  to  answer,  Mr.  Doyle. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  why  do  you  decline  to  answer  ? 

Mrs.  James.  I  feel  that  an  answer  to  this  question  might  tend  to 
incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  state  that  you  were  not  a  Communist  when  you 
came  in  the  door.  Why,  then,  wouldn't  you  tell  us  if  you  were  a 
Communist  30  da}^s  ago  ? 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1633 

Mrs.  James.  I  believe  this  is  a  legal  question. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  am  not  trying  to  make  it  a  legal  question,  beeansp. 
you  have  a  very  able  lawyer  by  your  side  there. 

Mr.  Wirin.  I  will  be  glad  to  answer  any  questions  that  are  put 
to  me — most  any  questions. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  heard  your  husband  a  few  minutes  ago  state  that 
he  thought  that,  in  substance — I  believe  he  stated,  because  I  made 
a  note  of  it,  that  he  felt  that  this  committee  should  investigate 
subversive  people  and  programs.  You  heard  him  so  state,  and  I  think 
he  added  that,  however,  some  of  the  crop  might  be  hurt  when  we  were 
getting  at  the  weeds. 

Mrs.  James.  Yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  heard  that? 

Mrs.  James.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Now,  what  is  your  idea  about  whether  or  not  the  United 
States  Congress  should  investigate  subversive  people  and  programs 
of  subversive  groups?     Should  we  or  shouldn't  we? 

Mrs.  James.  I  feel  this  is  a  question  of  my  opinion,  sir.  I  don't 
know.  I  am  not  a  student  of  political  affairs.  I  know  that  this 
committee  is  acting  within  its  rights.  However,  I  have  my  own  con- 
science, and  I  am  taking  my  stand  within  my  rights  under  the  fifth 
amendment  and  what  I  feel  right  as  my  conscience  dictates  to  me. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Well,  I  would  agree  with  you,  Mrs.  James,  that  you 
must  follow  the  dictates  of  your  conscience  in  connection  with  your 
patriotic  obligation  to  your  whole  nation  which  gave  you  birth,  I 
think,  and  perhaps  your  children  birth.  We  are  not  urging  you  to 
waive  your  conscience  in  any  way.  I  am  sure  you  understand  that, 
don't  you  ? 

Mrs.  James.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  But  when  you  say  that  you  are  sure  this  committee  is 
acting  within  its  rights,  we  are  not  only  acting  within  our  rights,  we 
are  acting  under  a  directive  from  the  United  States  Congress  which 
is  embodied  in  a  Federal  statute  which  says  that  our  duty  is  to  come 
and  ask  you  what  you  know  about  subversive  people  and  subversive 
groups,  so  it  is  the  United  States  Congress  that  is  asking  you,  through 
us.  It  is  not  this  committee,  only.  It  is  the  whole  United  States 
Congress.    You  understand,  don't  you  ? 

Mrs.  James.  Yes,  I  understand. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Now,  your  husband — I  want  to  repeat  to  you — a  few 
minutes  ago,  therefore,  said  he  felt  that  we  should  investigate  sub- 
versives, and  what  is  your  idea  ?     Should  we  or  should  we  not  ? 

Mrs.  James.  Yes,  I  feel  you  should  do  your  job. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  help  us,  please,  investigate  it.  Do  you  know  of 
any  Communist  fronts  active  in  this  area  now  ? 

Mrs.  James.  I  must  decline  to  answer  your  question  on  the  previous 
grounds. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Were  you  ever  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  James.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  previous  grounds. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Have  you  any  recommendation  as  to  how  this  com- 
mittee can  investigate  subversive  people  and  programs,  as  long  as 
you  have  stated  you  thought  we  ought  to  ?     How  shall  we  get  at  it  ? 

Mrs.  James.  Are  you  asking  my  opinion,  Mr.  Doyle  ? 

Mr.  Doyle.  Yes;  I  am. 


1634  COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mrs.  James.  Well,  I  feel  that  this  committee  has  certainly  found 
the  Communists  are  not  being  a  very  effective  voice  in  Hollywood,  be- 
cause I  think  most  of  the  witnesses  who  have  been  here  have  said  that 
they  are  not  influencing  the  films  that  are  distributed  to  the  American 
people,  so  I  don't  feel  that 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  know.  But  I  am  asking  you,  How  shall  we  investigate 
it? 

Mrs.  James.  That  is  your  job,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  know  it  is  our  job. 

Mrs.  James.  I  don't  wish  to  give  an  opinion. 

Mr.  Doyle.  And  our  job  is  to  get  your  help.  And  your  help,  we 
believe,  is  to  come  clean  and  help  us  investigate  subversive  conduct  in 
Hollywood.  Now,  you  haven't  answered  that.  Have  you  any  way 
that  we  can  get  at  the  subversive  people,  the  people  that  would  uproot 
our  constitutional  form  of  government  and  favor  Soviet  Russia? 
Have  you  any  recommendation  of  what  we  shall  do  ?  You  don't  tell 
us  anything  about  what  you  know  about  communism. 

Mrs.  James.  No;  I  have  no  recommendation. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Why  don't  you  tell  us  what  you  know  about  it  and 
heln  us? 

(The  witness  made  no  answer.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  don't  want  to  urge  you  or  hurry  you  to  do  it ;  I  want 
you  to  take  plenty  of  time  to  answer  that  question.  Take  more  time 
if  you  want  before  you  answer  it.  But  why  don't  you  help  us,  Mrs. 
James?  You've  got  some  young  children  growing  up.  Why  don't 
you  help  us  in  the  field  of  communistic  influences  in  Hollywood  ? 

Mrs.  James  (conferring  with  counsel).  I  will  try  to  answer  your 
question,  Mr.  Doyle,  and  this  isn't  what  my  lawyer  just  advised  me. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  am  glad  you  consulted  your  lawyer. 

Mrs.  James.  I  feel  that  it  is  quite  possible  to  be  opposed  to  commu- 
nism and  its  principles  and  its  alliance  to  the  Soviet  Union  and  to  be 
in  support  of  our  Government,  our  Government's  policy  in  Korea — 
which  I  certainly  am — and  still  feel  that  it  is  not  an  American  rule  to 
have  to  name  names  of  people  when  it  will  influence  their  lives  and 
their  families  and  their  children.  This  is  not  my  reason  for  declining. 
I  decline  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amendment.  But  this  is  my 
position. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Thank  you  very  much. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Mrs.  James,  do  I  understand  that  you  wrote  Bloomer 
Girl,  or  had  a  part  in  the  writing? 

Mrs.  James.  Yes ;  and  several  other  people. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Did  you  also  appear  in  Bloomer  Girl? 

Mrs.  James.  No,  sir.     I  am  not  an  actress. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Were  you  ever  a  member  of  Actors'  Equity? 

Mrs.  James.  Yes,  I  was  a  member  of  Actors'  Equity  when  I  was  a 
ballet  dancer,  which  was  up  until  1936,  I  believe. 

Mr.  Jackson.  Were  you  present  at  a  meeting  in  the  Astor  at  which 
time  Actors'  Equity  undertook  to  censure  Frank  Fay  ? 

Mrs.  James.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Jackson.  You  were  not  present  at  that  time  ? 

Mrs.  James.  No,  sir.     I  was  in  Hollywood. 

Mr.  Jackson.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter. 


COMMUNISM    IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY  1635 

Mr.  Potter.  No  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  further  questions  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  why  the  witness  shouldn't  be  excused  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  like  to  ask  one  further  question. 

Mr.  Wood.  Proceed. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  The  witness  has  stated  that  she  would  not  answer 
the  question  as  to  whether  or  not  she  was  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  yesterday.  But  as  to  this  morning  she  was  not  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party.  I  would  like  to  know  whether  the  appearance 
of  this  committee  here  for  the  conduct  of  these  hearings  had  anything 
to  do  with  that  answer  of  hers. 

Do  you  understand  what  I  mean  ? 

Mrs.  James.  No  ;  I  am  afraid  that  I  don't. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Whether  or  not  the  presence  of  this  committee  in 
the  conduct  of  this  investigation  has  had  anything  to  do  with  the 
existence  of  the  facts  upon  which  you  have  made  those  answers. 

Mr.  Wirin.  May  I  explain  to  her  just  the  question  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  would  rather  have  her  ask  me  if  she  doesn't 
understand  the  question.  Of  course,  if  she  wants  advice  of  counsel, 
that's  all  right.  But  if  it  is  a  matter  of  explanation  of  my  question  I 
would  rather  explain  it. 

Mr.  Wirin.  She  apparently  wants  my  advice.    May  I  give  it  to  her? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Yes. 

Mr.  Wirin.  If  I  explain  the  question  in  the  course  of  it  you  won't 
mind  too  much  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  assume  it  will  occur. 

Mrs.  James  (conferring  with  counsel).  The  answer  to  the  question 
is  "No." 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  why  the  witness  shouldn't  be  excused  from 
further  attendance  on  the  committee  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No. 

Mr.  Wood.  It  is  so  ordered. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Georgia  Backus,  Mrs.  Georgia  Backus  Alexander. 

Mr.  Wood.  Are  you  Mrs.  Alexander? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  I  am. 

Mr.  Wood.  Please  hold  up  your  right  hand  and  be  sworn.  You  do 
solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  shall  give  this  subcommittee 
shall  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help 
you  God  ? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  I  do. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mrs.  Alexander,  are  you  represented  by  counsel  ? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  I  am  so  represented. 

Mr.  Wood.  Again,  for  the  record,  please,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  Kenny.  Robert  Kenny  and  Ben  Margolis,  Los  Angeles. 

TESTIMONY  OF  GEORGIA  BACKUS  ALEXANDER,  ACCOMPANIED  BY 
HER  COUNSEL,  ROBERT  KENNY  AND  BEN  MARGOLIS 

Mr.  Wood.  Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  name,  please  ? 
Mrs.  Alexander.  Georgia  Backus  Alexander. 
Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  do  you  live,  Mrs.  Alexander  ? 


1636  COMMUNISM   IN  MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY 

Mrs.  Alexandee.  Well,  Mr.  Tavenner,  I  would  like  to  ask  that 
you  not  ask  me  to  give  this  over  the  radio,  since  a  witness  today  said 
that  he  received  threats,  and  it  seems  to  me  that  it  is  quite  possible 
that  the  address  might  put  me  in  jeopardy. 

Mr.  Wood.  Please  speak  a  little  louder ;  I  didn't  hear  the  request. 

Mrs.  Alexander.  I  said  I  heard  this  morning  that  the  first  witness 
who  was  on  the  stand  today  said  that  he  had  received  threats,  and 
I  would  like  to  ask  not  to  have  to  give  my  address  over  radio,  because 
this  is  being  taped,  I  understand. 

Mr.  Wood.  I  think  that  is  a  reasonable  request,  Mr.  Counsel. 

If  you  don't  mind,  write  it  and  give  it  to  the  reporter. 

(The  witness  wrote  the  following  address  which  was  given  to  the 
reporter:  6149  Fulton  Avenue,  Van  Nuys,  Calif.) 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  appear  here  in  response  to  a  subpena 
served  upon  you  ? 

Mrs.  Alexamder.  I  do. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  When  was  a  subpena  served ;   do  you  recall  ? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  I  don't  recall  the  exact  date,  but  it  was  sometime 
the  first  of  August. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  recall  an  occasion  when  an  investigator  of 
this  committee  in  February  uf  this  year,  February  24,  called  at  your 
home  in  order  to  serve  a  subpena  upon  you  to  appear  in  Washington  ? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  I  did  not  see  the  investigator.  I  understand  that 
he  was  there. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  You  were  there  at  the  time  that  he  arrived,  were 
you  not  ? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  I  was  there.    I  was  at  home. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Your  husband  prohibited  you  from  seeing  the 
investigator  or  from  receiving  the  subpena  to  appear  before  the 
committee  ? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  I  had  planned  on  going  on  a  vacation.  I  had 
not  been  very  well  at  the  time ;  and,  as  work  was  rather  scarce,  I 
made  my  plans  to  go  on  a  vacation.  I  was  cleaning  my  house,  getting 
ready  to  go,  getting  my  clothes  in  order;  and  I  did  not  know  until 
after  the  men  were  there  who  they  were.  So  I  proceeded  about  my 
vacation  as  I  had  planned. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Will  you  answer  my  question,  please?  I  don't  be- 
lieve you  have  answered  it. 

Will  you  read  the  question  back  to  the  witness  if  she  desires  it,  or 
do  you  understand  the  question  ? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  Would  you  read  the  question  back  ? 

(The  reporter  read  the  question,  as  follows :) 

Your  husband  prohibited  you  from  seeing  the  investigator  or  from  receiving 
the  subpena  to  appear  before  the  committee? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  No  ;  my  husband  did  not. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  is  your  occupation,  Mrs.  Alexander? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  I  am  an  actress. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Where  have  you  practiced  your  profession  ? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  Stage,  radio,  screen. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  How  long  have  you  been  engaged  as  an  actress  in 
California? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  Approximately  10  or  12  years.  I  came  out  here 
in  1938,  and  I  don't  remember  when  I  started  working  after  I  came- 
out  here. 


COMMUNISM   IN   MOTION-PICTURE   INDUSTRY  1637 

Mr.  Tavenner.  During  that  period  of  time  did  you  also  appear  in 
screen  plays? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  Yes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  are  some  of  the  principal  plays  in  which  you 
have  taken  a  part? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  I  have  been  in  quite  a  few  plays  during  this  time, 
and  I  don't  know  as  I  can  recall  them  all.  Don  Renegade,  Dream 
Girl,  Cause  for  Alarm.  I  am  a  free-lance  actress,  and  as  such  I  play 
small  character  parts,  and  there  have  been  quite  a  lot. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  has  been  the  extent  of  your  participation  in 
radio  work  in  recent  years? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  Again  as  a  free-lance  actress.  I  have  played  off 
and  on  in  dramatic  presentations  on  the  radio. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  What  are  some  of  the  principal  plays  that  you  have 
engaged  in? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  Oh,  NBC  Theatre,  Let  George  Do  It,  Screen  Di- 
rectors' Guild. 

(Conferring  with  counsel.) 

There  have  been  quite  a  few.  I  can't  recall  them  at  the  moment.  I 
have  done  quite  a  number  of  radio  plays.    Excuse  me  a  minute. 

(Conferring  with  counsel.) 

I  really  don't  remember.  You  go  on  a  show  in  radio  and  you  go  on 
one  time,  and  then  you  don't  get  a  call  for  that  show  again  for  several 
months,  and  some  other  director  calls  you  for  another  show,  and  that's 
the  way  it  goes. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Well,  the  committee  has  information  that  during 
the  period  of  time  that  you  have  been  here,  or  at  least  during  part 
of  that  time,  you  have  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party.  If 
that  is  true,  we  would  like  for  you  to  tell  the  committee  the  circum- 
stances under  which  you  became  a  member  of  the  party  and  to  give  us 
information  which  you  have  or  should  have  had  if  you  were  such 
a  member. 

Mrs.  Alexander.  I  feel  that  it  is  not  only  my  right  but  my  duty  in 
taking  the  privilege  of  the  fifth  amendment  on  any  questions  con- 
cerning organizations  which  this  committee  has  deemed  subversive, 
or  other  words ;  and  I  decline  to  answer  this  question  on  the  grounds 
that  an  answer  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Do  you  consider  that  membership  in  the  Communist 
Party  constitutes  membership  in  a  subversive  organization? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  That  is  your  definition.    You  have  said  that. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  am  asking  you. 

Mrs.  Alexander.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth 
amendment. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  questions,  Mr.  Walter? 

Mr.  Walter.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Doyle,  any  questions? 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Jackson,  any  questions  ? 

Mr.  Jackson.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Wood.  Mr.  Potter,  any  questions  ? 

Mr.  Potter.  No  questions. 

Mrs.  Alexander.  May  I  submit  a  statement,  please? 


1638  COMMUNISM    IN   MOTION-PICTURE    INDUSTRY 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  further  questions  by  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  Any  reason  why  the  witness  shouldn't  be  excused  from 
further  attendance  ? 

Mr.  Tavenner.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Wood.  This  is  submitted  for  the  record  ? 

Mrs.  Alexander.  Yes. 

Mr.  Wood.  Very  well.    The  witness  may  be  excused. 

Mr.  Tavenner.  Mr.  Chairman,  due  to  the  lateness  of  the  hour, 
I  suggest  now  that  you  resolve  the  committee  into  an  executive  session. 

Mr.  Wood.  Very  well.  I  want  to  make  an  announcement  before 
the  recess.  The  committee  desires  to  hold  a  short  executive  session  in 
this  room  immediately  upon  the  recess  of  the  committee  and  that  will 
entail  the  necessity  of  the  audience  vacating  the  room,  and  we  will 
appreciate  it  if  you  will  do  so  as  rapidly  and  orderly  as  possible  so 
that  we  may  proceed,  and  we  will  recess  at  this  point  until  10  o'clock 
tomorrow  morning. 

(Whereupon,  at  the  hour  of  4:  40  p.  m.  an  adjournment  was  taken 
in  the  above  hearings  until  the  hour  of  10  a.  m.  of  the  following  day, 
September  20,  1951.) 

X 


Ml 


WILLIAMS  COLLEGE 


3  0001  036428938 


GOV  DOC 

Y  4. UN  1/2 :C  73/21/ 

PT.1-4 

United  States.  Congress 

House.  Committee  on 


DATE  DUE 


DfMCO.  INC.  38-2931