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Full text of "Communist infiltration of Hollywood motion-picture industry : hearing before the Committee on Un-American activities, House of Representatives, Eighty-second Congress, first session"


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COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF HOLLYWOOD 
MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY-PART 5 



HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-SECOND CONGKESS 

FIRST SESSION 



SEPTEMBER 20, 21, 24 AND 25, 1951 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
81595 WASHINGTON : 1951 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives 

JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman 

FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois 

MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York 

CLYDE DOYLE, California DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan 



Subcommittee Appointed To Sit in Los Angeles, Calif., To Hold Hearings 

Under This Title 

JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman, 

1 FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

CLYDE DOYLE, California CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan 

Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel 

Louis J. Russell, Senior Investigator 

John W. Carrington, Cleric of Committee 

Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 



1 Acting chairman in the absence of Representative John S. Wood. 

n 



CONTENTS 



September 20, 1951: 

Testimony of — Pae« 

Robert L. Richards 1640 

Ann Roth Morgan Richards 1650 

Ellenore Abowitz 1654 

Marguerite Roberts ., 1666 

Michael Wilson 1674 

John Sanford 1680 

David Raskin 1682 

William Blowitz _. 1696 

Herta Uerkvitz 1699 

September 21, 1951: 
Testimony of — 

Max Howard Schoen 1703 

Elizabeth Wilson 1716 

Jeff Corey 1733 

Mary Virginia Farmer 1736 

Louise Rousseau 1739 

Dr. Murray Abowitz 1742 

September 24, 1951: 
Testimony of— 

Carl Foreman 1753 

Reuben Ship 1771 

Bernyce Polifka Fleury 1775 

Donald Gordon 1785 

Josef Mischel 1793 

Lester Koenig 1905 

September 25, 1951: 
Testimony of — 

George Beck 1817 

Karl Tunberg 1834 

Sidney Buchman 1856 

in 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF HOLLYWOOD MOTION- 
PICTURE INDUSTRY— PART 5 



THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 20, 1951 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

on Un-American Activities, 

Los Angeles* Calif. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met 
pursuant to adjournment at 10 : 10 a. m. in room 518, Federal Build- 
ing, Los Angeles, Calif., Hon. John S. Wood (chairman), presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives John S. Wood 
(chairman), Francis E. Walter, Clyde Doyle, Donald L. Jackson, and 
Charles E. Potter. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel; Louis J. Russell, senior investigator; 
William A. Wheeler, investigator; and John W. Carrington, clerk. 

Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order, please. 

Let the record disclose that the entire subcommittee is present. 

Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Who do you have first ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Ellenore Abowitz. 

Mr. Wood. Mrs. Abowitz. 

Mr. Kenny. I am representing Mrs. Abowitz. She doesn't seem to 
have arrived yet. She will be here shortly, I'm sure. 

Mr. Wood. Does it interfere with your program, Mr. Counsel ? If 
so we will take a short recess until she comes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your judgment of the time she will arrive? 

Mr. Kenny. I talked to her earlier this morning and she lives quite 
a distance out and she was on her way down. I expect her any 
moment. 

Mr. Tavenner. If that is so then, Mr. Chairman, I suggest that we 
wait a few minutes. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. The committee will stand in recess for 5 
minutes to see if she will arrive in that time, and if not we will proceed 
with something else. 

(A short recess was here taken.) 

Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I am informed that the witness has 
had transportation difficulties and it may be as much as a half hour 
before she arrives. In light of that I think we may as well proceed 
with another witness. 

1639 



1640 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Wood. Very well. Whom do you call ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Robert L. Richards. 

Mr. Wood. Are you Mr. Robert Richards ? 

Mr. Richards. I am. 

Mr. Wood. Raise your right hand, sir, and be sworn. You do sol- 
emnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee will be the 
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Richards. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT L. RICHARDS, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, ROBERT KENNY 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat, sir. Are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. Richards. I am. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Kenny. Robert Kenny, of Los Angeles. 

Mr. Wood. You may proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Robert Richards ? 

Mr. Richards. I would like to raise a question. I don't know whether 
I am being on television here or not, but I see the television cameras 
here. Are they in operation ? 

Mr. Tavenner. It is assumed that they are. I never know when 
they are and when they are not. 

Mr. Richards. Is there any question as to my privilege of being on 
this television or not ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I should think if you have any objection to it, the 
chairman and the committee will consider your objection and act 
upon it. 

Mr. Richards. Yes; I think I do, if you have no objection to my 
objection. 

Mr. Wood. That is a qualified objection. If you object 

Mr. Richards. Yes; I do. 

(Discussion off the record among members of the committee.) 

Mr. Wood. It is the decision of the committee that your objections 
will be respected 

Mr. Richards. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. And you will not appear on any television that is in 
the room. 

Mr. Richards. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you instruct them that the television be cut 
off? 

Mr. Wood. The television people are instructed not to televize this 
witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Richards 

Mr. Walter. Just a minute, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Wood. In view of the fact that television facilities are — may 
I have attention, please? 

Mr. Rtciiards. I beg your pardon. 

Mr. Wood. That the television facilities are permitted in the hear- 
ing room through the courtesy of the committee I am sure that it 
isn't necessary for me to caution them with respect to the directive 
that has been given now that the witness is not to be shown on tele- 
vision. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1641 

Mr. Richards. I hadn't understood, Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry. This 
means, then, that my face will not appear on television but my voice 
will ; is that correct? 

Mr. Wood. Your voice will appear whether the television is in 
here or not. 

Mr. Kichards. That is true. I understand. 

Mr. Wood. There is no difference in the character of the testimony 
that you will give here now than it would be if these television cameras 
were not in the room. 

Mr. Kichards. I understand perfectly, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Is that satisfactory ? 

Mr. Richards. Yes, indeed. By all means. 

Mr. Wood. You may proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you please state your full name, Mr. Rich- 
ards. 

Mr. Richards. Robert Loring Richards. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born. Mr. Richards ? 

Mr. Richards. I was born in New York City, March 1, 1909. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession or occupation ? 

Mr. Richards. I am a writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been a writer ? 

Mr. Richards. I have been a writer since about 1936. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee briefly what your 
educational training has been for the practice of your profession ? 

Mr. Richards. Yes. I attended the Horace Mann School in New 
York City — high school — and graduated from Harvard College in 
1932. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly what your record of em- 
ployment has been ? 

Mr. Richards. I worked for Time, Inc., for about 7 years. I was a 
writer for and subsequently producer of the March of Time radio pro- 
gram. I was an associate producer of the March of Time on the 
screen. That is, the documentary — the newsreel. I left Time mag- 
azine and worked in an advertising agency for about a year, in radio. 
I came out to Hollywood about the end of 1942, did some radio, 
joined the merchant marine, subsequently went into motion pictures. 
I have been employed for about — I am a little vague on dates — about 
4 years quite steadily, writing screen plays in the motion-picture in- 
dustry. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you state that you came to Hollywood? 

Mr. Richards. I think it was the end of 1942. I am not sure. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, in 1942 the Communist Party line, as it was 
recognized in this country, was the establishment of a second front. 
Of course, anyone had the right to sponsor the establishment of a 
second front. We are interested now in learning the extent to which 
the Communist Party line, which had consisted of that principle, was 
advocated by organizations influenced by the Communist Party. If 
you have any information on that subject the committee would like 
to have it. 

Mr. Richards. I must — I shall — I will decline to answer that ques- 
tion on the grounds of possible incrimination and claim my privileges 
under the fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United States 
to so den} 7 — to so decline to answer that. 



1642 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE industry 

Mr. Tavexxer. "Well, there appeared an article in tlie September 
14, 1942, issue of the Daily Worker to the effect that the League of 
American Writers was sponsoring the immediate opening of a second 
front, and I hand you the article in question. It appears from this 
article that your name was endorsed to this plan as sponsored by the 
League of American "Writers. I am interested only to the extent 
of your participating in it as a member of the League of American 
"Writers. 

Mr. Richards. Your question, then, is 

Mr. Tavexxer. "Whether or not you did take part in that publiciz- 
ino- as indicated by the press. 

Mr. Richards. I shall decline to answer that question on the 
grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Tavexxer. According to the November 3, 1947, issue of the 
Hollywood Reporter, there appears an advertisement contributed by 
the Actors' Division of the Progressive Citizens of America. 

Mr. Richards. I beg your pardon, sir, I did not hear the date. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes, sir. The date was November 3, 1947. 

Mr. Richards. Yes. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I will hand you the article referred to so that you 
may have it before you. Now, this advertisement proclaims that the 
Thomas-Rankin committee must go. Now, I raise no objection to 
anyone criticizing this committee or its predecessor, but we are anxious 
to know the extent to which the Communist Party imposes its thought, 
if any, upon other organizations in opposing the work of this com- 
mittee or its predecessor, so after having looked at the article will 
you identify it as an advertisement in which you participated as one 
of the signers. 

Mr. Richards. I shall decline to answer that question, sir, on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. Richards, the committee is in possession of 
information indicating that you were transferred from the Com- 
munist Party — as a member of the Communist Party in the city of 
New York in 1944 or 1945 to membership in the Communist Party in 
Hollywood, and at the time you were transferred your book number 
was 41786. I would like for you to tell the committee whether or not 
you were transferred as a Communist Party member from New York 
to this area. 

Mr. Richards. I shall decline to answer that question, sir, on the 
grounds that I have previously stated. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Are you acquainted with Carl Winter? 

Mr. Richards. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavexxer. There was an individual whose name was mentioned 
either yesterday or the day before by the name of Harry Appleton, of 
whom it was said that he was an executive member of the Bay Cities 
Communist Club of the Los Angeles County Communist Party dur- 
ing the year 1944. "Were you acquainted with him % 

Mr. Richards. I, of course, shall decline to answer this question 
on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting at 
which he was present? 

Mr. Richards. I decline to answer that question, also, sir, on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. Tavexxer. "Where did you live in 1944 ? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1643 

Mr. Richards. That is a tough one. 1944? 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it at 607 Ocean Front ? 

Mr. Richards. I believe it was, yes. In Santa Monica. I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you renting the property at the time? 

Mr. Richards. Yes; I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether any meetings 
of the Communist Party were held at 607 Ocean Front while it was 
being rented by you ? 

Mr. Richards. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the grounds 
of possible self-incrimination, relying upon my privilege under the 
fifth amendment of the Constitution to so do. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you named some of your screen plays 

Mr. Richards. No, sir. You never asked me about my screen plays. 

Mr. Tavenner. I did not? 

Mr. Richards. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think we should know just the general type and 
character of your work, if you will let the committee have that in- 
formation, as to the major screen plays with which you have been 
accredited. 

Mr. Richards. I will be glad to. I wrote my first — my first screen 
credit was a picture called One Sunday Afternoon, for Warner Bros. 
It was a musical. My next screen credit was a picture called Act of 
Violence for Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer That was about an informer. 
My next credit was a picture at Universal 

Mr. Wood. Will you pardon me just for a moment at this point. 

Mr. Richards. Yes, indeed. 

Mr. Wood. There may be those in the audience who have not been 
here previously, so I announce again that this committee will not con- 
done or countenance any sort of demonstration, favorable, unfavor- 
able, or otherwise, in this hearing room during the conduct of these 
hearings. I hope that I won't have to repeat that admonition again. 

Mr. Richards. Do you wish me to proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I would be very glad for you to do so. 

Mr. Richards. By a curious coincidence my next screen credit for 
Universal-International was a picture called Johnny Stoolpigeon. 
My next credit was, I believe, written in collaboration, a picture called 
Winchester '73, a western. Let me see, there were others. There was 
a picture called Air Cadet, there was a picture called Kansas Raiders. 

I have worked on several others that I didn't do enough work on to 
get credit, if you understand what I mean. That is a pretty representa- 
tive list of my credits. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have been informed in the course of our investi- 
gation that virtually all of those who worked as writers were members 
of the Screen Writers' Guild. I assume the same thing was true in 
your case? 

Mr. Richards. I was a member of the Screen Writers' Guild ; yes. 
I still am, to the best of my knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1949, which was some time after the first hear- 
ings before this committee in 1947, I believe there was a contest of 
special interest in the guild regarding the election of officers. At that 
time, Albert Maltz, who has been identified a number of times in the 
course of this investigation by witnesses as having been a member of 
the Communist Party, was a candidate for membership on the execu- 
tive board. This was in 1949. Of course, every member had the 



1644 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

right to the free expression of his choice in the election of officers, 
and I am not attempting to criticize, by inference, you or any other 
person for exercising that right. 

Mr. Richards. Are you asking me, sir, who I voted for in this elec- 
tion? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am going to ask you a somewhat similar question. 
We are anxious to know whether or not Mr. Albert Maltz was spon- 
sored in that election for that position by a fraction of the Communist 
Party or by members of the Communist Party who were members of 
the guild. In that connection we have noted that you have signed a 
petition nominating Mr. Maltz for that position. With that know- 
ledge, it occurred to us that you could inform us about that. 

Mr. Richards. I must decline to answer that question, sir, on the 
grounds that I have previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter, do you have any questions of the witness ? 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mr. Richards, are you a member, or were you a member, of the 
actors' division of the Progressive Citizens of America? 

Mr. Richards. I shall decline to answer that question, sir. 

Mr. Walter. You are a member of the Screen Writers' Guild? 

Mr. Richards. Yes; I am a member of the Screen Writers' Guild. 

Mr. Walter. Why do you very frankly admit your membership in 
the Screen Writers' Guild and decline to answer the question of 
whether or not you are a member of another organization? 

Mr. Richards. I am informed, sir, that 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Richards. I am under no compulsion to give my reasons for 
declining to answer any questions. 

Mr. Walter. I don't know where you got that information, but if 
your lawyer has given you that information I think you ought to 
get another lawyer, because you can't decline to answer any question 
that you just don't feel like answering. 

Mr. Richards. I did not say that. 

Mr. Walter. That is exactly what you said. 

Mr. Kenny. In justice to myself, Mr. Walter, since my advice has 
been taken into question, I advised him that no witness who has de- 
clined to answer a question is under any compulsion to give his rea- 
sons for that declination because the reasons are the same in effect 
as the question itself, or rather an answer to the question itself. If 
you do suggest that I was wrong in representing him 

Mr. Walter. Distinguished counsel from California is well aware 
of the circuit court decision, in your own circuit, which held that 
where a witness decided he was not going to answer a question in- 
nocent on its face, if in fact that question could not incriminate him, 
then he, of course, is responsible for the consequences of his failure 
to answer that instant question. 

Mr. Kenny. I am afraid we will bore other people with a discus- 
sion, but it goes to reasons. 

Mr. Wood. Let's don't enter into any legal discussions, gentlemen. 

Mr. Walter. I notice on this Hollywood Reporter of November 3, 
1947, the Committee on Un-American Activities was described as the 
Thomas-Rankin Committee. Now, of course, Mr. Rankin never was 
in a position where this committee could bear his name, and the fact 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1645 

that this propaganda sheet — that you will not admit that you had 
anything to do with — contains the name indicates to me, and I ask 
you whether or not this is a fact — whether you know anything about 
it — Mr. Rankin, coming from Mississippi, and with the kind of legis- 
lative record, which is a matter of record, which he has, his name 
wasn't used only for the purpose of trying to inflame minority groups 
against the activities of the committee directed by the Communists 
of the United States. 

Mr. Richards. I am afraid, sir, that the question might tend to 
link me to an exhibit which is considered to be subversive. 

Mr. Walter. I am sure linking your name with that of Thomas- 
Rankin would in no wise incriminate you. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle ? Any questions you have ? 

Mr. Doyle. You stated, Mr. Richards, that you were and still are a 
member of the Screen Writers' Guild ? 

Mr. Richards. That's right, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Were you ever a member of the board of directors 
thereof ? 

Mr. Richards. To the best that I can recall, and I am sure I can 
recall it, I never held any office in the Screen Writers' Guild. Never. 
I never stood for election and never was elected. 

Mr. Doyle. You say you never 

Mr. Richards. I just never ran for any office. I am afraid I wasn't 
a very good guild member. I didn't go to many meetings. 

Mr. Doyle. You attended the meeting 

Mr. Richards. I attended some of the meetings ; yes. 

Mr. Doyle. What is there, if anything, in your judgment about 
membership in the Communist Party, if you ever were a member 
thereof, which might incriminate you if you admitted or stated you 
were ? 

Mr. Richards. Is that the question, sir ? 

Mr. Doyle. Quite correctly so. 

Mr. Richards. I thought you were going to say something further. 
I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you know whether or not the Communist Party is 
listed as a subversive group by the Attorney General or by this 
committee ? 

Mr. Richards. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you ever read the statute or the text of the statute 
under which this committee is functioning here this morning? 

Mr. Richards. I have not read it, sir, but I have heard it mentioned 
several times, and I think, in a general way, I am familiar with it. 

Mr. Doyle. What have you heard about it and when and where? 

Mr. Richards. I have heard about it here in this committee room. 

Mr. Doyle. Oh, yesterday ? 

Mr. Richards. I believe it was yesterday. I am not sure. I really 
don't remember, but I have heard you speak of it, and I have heard 
you 

Mr. Doyle. What do you remember me speaking of it? 

Mr. Richards. I remember your saying that Congress had empow- 
ered this committee to investigate subversive activities. I believe that 
is approximately the gist of it. 



1646 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Doyle. That is correct. Well, now, assuming that you agree 
with Mr. Webster, that "subversive" indicates uprooting and upturn- 
ing, complete overthrow and destruction, would you say whether or 
not you have an opinion, and if so, what is your opinion ? Don't you 
think that is a good definition ? 

Mr. Richards. This is a question of opinion, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. I know, and I am asking your opinion. 

Mr. Richards. Yes. Well, I will try to give you my opinion as best 
I can on this rather complex question. 

Mr. Doyle. There is nothing complex about it. 

Mr. Richards. To me it seems so. 

Mr. Doyle. It is very simple. 

Mr. Richards. To me it seems so. The Congress of the United 
States has passed that law. It is the law of the land. I will at all 
times obey the laws of my country, and that is why I am here before 
this committee. I happen to disagree with that law. Nevertheless, 
it is under the law certainly your right and duty to conduct this 
investigation which you are doing. Does that answer the question? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes ; and I wish to assure you that we are not trying to 
embarrass anyone that does disagree with the law. 

Mr. Richards. May I say something here on this question of 
opinion ? 

Mr. Doyle. Well 

Mr. Richards. I may have opinions, some of which may be unpop- 
ular, unorthodox, or even totally erroneous. I must strongly maintain, 
sir, my right to hold these opinions, and I further believe it is the 
sacred duty of everyone in this room to maintain my right to hold 
those opinions. 

Mr. Doyle. This committee would not disagree with that patriotic 
duty of anyone to hold their own opinion ; but, in like manner, young 
man, I believe as a Member of Congress and as a fellow citizen of yours 
that it is also your duty, as an American citizen, when Congress enun- 
ciates a law, to help carry that law into effectiveness; and I just 
wanted to state to you frankly that when you hide behind the fifth 
amendment, which you have the right to do under your constitutional 
rights, you are not cooperating with this committee in trying to put 
into effect the law, in my judgment. Now, you gave your opinion, 
I have given you mine. My time is up, and therefore I will yield 
back to the chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson, I will yield to you. Any questions you 
may have? 

Mr. Jackson. I think in your opening statement you made mention 
of or used the word "informer" in several of your answers. What is 
your definition of "informer"? 

Mr. Richards. Mr. Jackson, I merely said in connection with the 
picture that it was about the informer. 

Mr. Jackson. I understand. 

Mr. Richards. As a matter of fact, I might add, the informer 
in this picture was treated quite sympathetically. 

Mr. Jackson;. Do you know what an informer is? 

Mr. Richards. An informer, I would say, by definition, is a man 
who gives information. 

Mr. Jackson. An informer, according to the dictionary, is one who 
gives information with respect to a criminal conspiracy or criminal 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1647 

activities. That is to say, no one has ever given information regard- 
ing the Knights of Columbus, The B'nai B'rith, the Girl Scouts, or the 
Boy Scouts. Do you believe that in informing on Communists and 
Communist activities one is giving information with respect to crim- 
inal activities? 

Mr. Richards. I am sorry, sir; I must decline to answer that ques- 
tion on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you believe the Communist Party to constitute a 
conspiracy ? 

Mr. Richards. I must decline to answer that question, sir. I shall 
decline. I beg your pardon. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you oppose any method of changing the Constitu- 
tion of the United States except those that are set forth in that 
Constitution ? 

Mr. Richards. I most certainly do, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you oppose the overthrow of the Government by 
force and violence ? 

Mr. Richards. I most certainly do, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Have you served in the Armed Forces of the United 
States? 

Mr. Richards. I have not served in the Armed Forces of the United 
States ; no, sir. I was in the merchant marine. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you serve in the Armed Forces of the United 
States if, conceivably, such service meant taking arms against the 
Soviet Union? 

Mr. Richards. I would defend my country, sir, in the event of an 
attack from any source whatever. 

Mr. Jackson. Including the Soviet Union? 

Mr. Richards. Including the Soviet Union ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. You, Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Richards, in reply to a question by my colleague 
Mr. Doyle, we are greatly concerned about the freedom of opinion 
of individuals. Now, it is interesting to me to note that persons who 
are members of the Communist Party are greatly concerned about 
individual opinions, while those same members are denied, within 
the party, the expression of those opinions. Now, I have here a docu- 
ment which I have read from many times during the course of this 
investigation. It is the manual on the organization of the Communist 
Party which many members have — many former members of the 
party have — informed the committee has served as more or less of a 
bible for membership in the party. Now, I would like to read you 
one paragraph of this manual of the Communist Party concerning 
the every expression of opinion, and I quote. 1 

Wo cannot imagine a discussion, for example, questioning the correctness of 
the leading role of the proletariat in the revolution, or the necessity for the 
proletarian dictatorship. We do not question the theory of the necessity for 
the forceful overthrow of capitalism. We do not question the correctness of 
the revolutionary theory of the class struggle laid down by Marx, Engels, Lenin, 
and Stalin. 

Now, that is the end of the quotation. Now, when the party, itself, 
limits even the discussion which will question the basic principles of 
the party as mentioned here, to claim that this committee in some way 

1 See appendix printed in a separate volume. 



1648 COMMUNISM EST MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

might hamper the expression of an opinion is — it puts the person in 
a contradictory position. That is no question. It is just a statement 
which I wish to relate. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Counsel, any further questions of the witness? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. I am not sure I got the full import of the witness' answer 
to the question as asked him with reference to whether or not he would 
willingly bear arms on behalf of the Government of the United States 
in the event of an armed conflict. 

Mr. Richards. May I repeat my answer, sir? I beg your pardon. 

Mr. Wood. I am going to ask you a question. I understood you 
to say that you would do so in the event of an attack on the United 
States. 

Mr. Richards. From any source whatsoever; yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Any source whatsoever. Let me go a little further 
with it. Suppose such a conflict conceivably was brought about by 
a declaration of the constituted authorities of America in order to 
withhold world-wide aggression. Short of an attack, what would be 
the attitude you would take ? 

Mr. Richards. I would assume, sir, that the only way that the 
United States could become involved in war is by a threat, an attack, 
an aggressive threat against the territories of the United States, and 
so my answer stands. I don't see — I don't get the distinction. I 
really don't. 

Mr. Wood. Maybe I can simplify it by asking you this simple ques- 
tion : Do you approve of the present conflict that is being waged in 
Korea ? 

Mr. Richards. That is a matter of opinion, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Do you care to express one ? 

Mr. Richards. Yes. Yes; I think I had better. This seems to 
me an extremely difficult 

Mr. Wood. I would rather you answer the question and then if you 
desire to make any explanation of your answer, all right. 

Mr. Richards. Mr. Wood, this is a matter of opinion. If you don't 
mind I must answer it in my own way. 

Mr. Wood. Let's have a direct answer first and then you can ex- 
plain it. 

Mr. Richards. Mr. Wood, unless I can answer this question of 
opinion in my own way I shall not choose to answer it from this forum 
at all. 

Mr. Wood. In other words, you would not give a simple answer as 
to whether or not you approve 

Mr. Richards. It is not a question of a simple answer. This is not 
a simple question. The whole business of the Korean thing is a big 
question and there is a vast difference of opinion of all kinds on this 
question. 

Mr. Wood. By that do you mean you approve part of it and dis- 
approve other portions? 

Mr. Richards. Do you want a yes or no answer to that ? I cannot 
give you a yes or no answer, sir ; I cannot. 

Mr. Wood. I have no objection to you going into a dissertation 
except in the interest of time. We don't want to furnish a forum 
here for a stump speech about it. I was simply seeking to ascertain 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1649 

whether you are in opinion with the United Nations forces in its 
efforts to suppress Communist aggression in the world. That is a 
simple question and it ought to have a simple answer. 

Mr. Richards. Let me say that I believe that it was an error— an 
error. 

Mr. Wood. That is a simple answer. 

Mr. Richards. Yes. I think that this opinion is shared by a 
great many people. I am heartily in favor, I hope, that this con- 
flict will be settled under the present peace negotiations. 

Mr. Wood. We all devoutly hope that, sir. 

Mr. Richards. Yes ; I am sure we do. 

Mr. Wood. I am not sure that I understood what you meant when 
you said that it was an error. I assume that you meant it was an 
error on the part of the United Nations forces. 

Mr. Richards. Yes; I think it was. I think there is still room 
for dissenting opinion in this country, Mr. Chairman. I do not 
think that one is subversive because one holds a dissenting opinion. 
I think it is our right to hold a dissenting opinion. 

Mr. Wood. That is true, because there are a lot of people in Amer- 
ica who have some misgivings on the sub j ect. 

Mr. Richards. Yes, there are, and I am among them. I think it 
is a tragic thing. I feel that the sooner it is over the better. I 
sincerely trust that it will lead to nothing further. I cannot imagine 
anything more calamitous for not only this country or for the entire 
human race than the extension of this conflict. 

Mr. Wood. I think Mr. Jackson has another question he would 
like to ask. 

Mr. Richards. I don't want to make speeches. 

Mr. Jackson. Has any effort been made by counsel or by this 
committee to alter your opinions or to stifle your opinions or change 
them ? 

Mr. Richards. No, sir ; no effort has been made that I can see here. 

Mr. Jackson. Have your constitutional rights been observed ? 

Mr. Richards. My constitutional rights have been observed. 

Mr. Jackson. Nothing further. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter, do you have additional questions ? 

Mr. Potter. Yes; just one short question. Do you contend that 
the Communist Party is dedicated to defend the Soviet Union? 

Mr. Richards. I shall decline to answer that question, sir, on the 
previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Potter. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Counsel, do you have additional questions for 
the witness? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir, I do not. 

Mr. Wood. Do you know of any reason why the witness should 
not be excused from further attendance on the committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. It is so ordered. 

Whom do you have next, Mr. Counsel? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Ellenore Abowitz. 

Mr. Wood. Has Mrs. Abowitz come in yet ? 

Mr. Kenny. Apparently not yet. She lives way out in West Los 
Angeles and she said 45 minutes. I suppose almost momentarily 
she will arrive. 



1650 COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Wood. It there another witness that you can use at the moment, 
or would you 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Ann Eoth Morgan Richards. 

Mr. Wood. Mrs. Richards, will you raise your right hand and be 
sworn, please ( You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall 
give this subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Richards. I do, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat, please. 

TESTIMONY OF ANN EOTH MORGAN RICHARDS, ACCOMPANIED 
BY HER COUNSEL, ROBERT W. KENNY 

Mrs. Richards. I am not very photogenic and I don't want tele- 
vision, either. 

Mr. Wood. You do not want television ? 
First I will ask you if you are represented here by counsel. 
Mrs. Richards. 1 am, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Mrs. Richards, do you object to the still photographs 
here before you begin your testimony ? 

Mrs. Richards. Not before, but not during, because it blinds you. 
Mr. Wood. Then I will have to ask the photographers to take what 
pictures they desire now. 

(The witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Wood. Mrs. Richards has indicated a disinclination to be tele- 
vised in the giving of her testimony so I issue the same instruction 
and direction to the operators of the television cameras that I did a 
moment ago, and that is that she is not to appear on the television 
screen at any time during the progress of the testimony. 
You may proceed, Mr. Counsel. 
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please? 
Mrs. Richards. Ann Roth Richards, also known as Ann Roth 

Morgan. Roth is my 

Mr. Wood. I don't believe the witness was interrogated as to whether 
or not she has counsel. 
Mrs. Richards. Yes. 

Mr. Kenny. Yes. The lady is represented by Robert W. Kenny, of 
Los Angeles. 

Mr. Wood. You have the right, Mrs. Richards, at any time during 
the progress of your interrogation to confer with your counsel as fully 
as you desire and to obtain from him any advice or information that 
you may seek or be in need of. And, of course, your counsel, Mr. 
Kenny, having been before this committee many times previously, is 
aware of his privileges in connection with representing you here. 
Mrs. Richards. Thank you very much. 
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you reside, Mrs. Richards ? 
Mrs. Richards. In Sherman Oaks. 
Mr. Tavenner. I'm sorry, I can't hear you. 
Mrs. Richards. Sherman Oaks, Calif. 
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in California? 
Mrs. Richards. Oh, about 25 years now, I believe. 
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time where did you reside ? 
Mrs. Richards. I was born in Minneapolis, Minn., and lived there 
until I came to California. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1651 

Mr. Tayexxer. Did you ever reside in the city of New York? 

Mrs. Richards. I spent 8 months there, I believe, during 1986 and 
1937, and I have made one visit there since. I have never lived there 
permanently. 

Mr. Tayexxer. I wish you would raise your voice a little bit more. 
It is very difficult for us to hear you over here. I understood that. 

Mrs. Richards. I don't realize because I couldn't see that you had 
to see my face. I thought you heard me through the mike. 

Mr. Tayexxer. If you will just speak as if you were speaking to 
me, we can all hear. 

Mrs. Richards. Thank you. I'm sorry. 

Mr. Tayexxer. What is your profession or occupation, Mrs. 
Richards \ 

Mrs. Richards. I am a housewife, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tayexxer. Have you engaged in any profession or occupation 
other than that of being a housewife? 

Mrs. Richards. I, prior to my marriage, worked as an administra- 
tive secretary for several organizations for many years. 

Mr. Tayexxer. When was that? When were you married? 

Mrs. Richards. 1919. 

Mr. Tayexxer. Prior to your marriage what organizations did you 
serve in a secretarial capacity for? 

Mrs. Richards. I decline to answer that, Mr. Tavenner, for fear 
of incrimination, and I invoke my privileges under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Tavexner. Were you employed at any time by the Screen 
Writers' Guild in a secretarial capacity? 

Mrs. Richards. I decline to answer that on the same grounds, Mr. 
Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Do you mean to state that you consider that em- 
ployment by the Screen Writers' Guild constituted a type of employ- 
ment that might subject you to criminal prosecution if you divulged 
that fact? 

Mrs. Richards. I decline to answer that on the same grounds, 
Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tayexxer. I have here before me a pamphlet, a 1938 pamph- 
let, entitled "Who's W T ho In Defense Of Democracy." 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Tayexxer. On page 40 of this "pamphlet there appears the 
names of the officers of the several Xew York chapters. When I say 
"chapters," I mean chapters of the Friends of the Abraham Lincoln 
Brigade, which was an organization. The name of Ann Roth ap- 
pears as chairman of the Benson Hurst chapter in Brooklyn. Will 
von examine page 40 of this pamphlet and state whether or not you 
were the chairman of that organization? 

Mrs. Richards. I decline to answer that on previous grounds. 

Mr. Tavexxer. In the course of the testimony of Mr. Martin 
Berkeley, reference was made to Ann Roth Morgan as being a person 
known to him to be a member of the Communist Party here in Los 
Angeles. If you were such a member I would like to ask you ques- 
tions relating to such information as you may have, or within your 
knowledge, regarding the activities of the party here and the extent 

81595— 51— pt. 5 2 



1652 COMMUNISM EST MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

of its infiltration here. Was his testimony, in which he named you 
as a member of the Communist Party, true 0£ false ? 

Mrs. Richards. I decline to answer that on previous grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your name is Ann Roth Morgan ? 

Mrs. Richards. Well, I like to think of myself as Ann Roth Rich- 
ards. Roth is my maiden name. Morgan was the name of a previous 
husband who is dead. So I really am Ann Roth Richards. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you have been known as Ann Roth Morgan, 
also, of course? 

Mrs. Richards. Yes. Until I married Mr. Richards. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Might I inquire the approximate date? I believe you 
have given the date of your marriage but I don't think you designated 
which one, the first one or the second one. What was the date of 
your marriage to Mr. Richards ? 

Mrs. Richards. December 25, 1949. 

Mr. Wood. I yield to Mr. Walter for any questions he may have. 

Mr. Walter. Mrs. Richards, the Screen Writers' Guild has never 
been designated as a subversive organization by the Attorney Gen- 
eral of the United States, by this committee, or any other organiza- 
tion, so far as I know. That being the fact, why do you decline, or 
did you decline, to answer the question as to whether or not you were 
employed by that organization ? 

Mrs. Richards (after conferring with her counsel). I decline to 
answer that question, Mr. Walter, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Walter. On the grounds it might incriminate you to answer 
the question I have just propounded? 

Mrs. Richards. On the previously stated grounds and under the 
privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Walter. Then you consider 

Mr. Wood. Please answer a little louder so I can hear you. 

Mr. Walter. I can understand her. 

Then you are of the opinion that the fifth amendment permits peo- 
ple to select whatever questions they feel like refusing to answer; is 
that it? 

Mrs. Richards. That is a legal question, Mr. Walter, and I prefer 
you discussed it with my legal counsel. I refuse to get into any legal 
discussions. 

Mr. Wood. You have the privilege of discussing it with your 
counsel. 

Mrs. Richards. Did you ask a question ? I didn't think you asked 
a question; I thought you asked for an opinion. If it is a legal 
opinion I will consult with my counsel, but I would have to give it 
to you second-handed. 

Mr. Walter. No further questions. 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter ? 

Mr. Potter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions by counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. It may not have been plain from her testimony as 
to whether or not she is the wife of Mr. Robert Richards who just 
preceded her on the witness stand. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1653 

Mrs. Richards. Yes. I am very proud to say so, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. That's all. 

Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. It is so ordered. 

Mrs. Richards. Thank you very much, gentlemen. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kenny, has your witness arrived ? 

Mr. Kenny. The only thing I can do is telephone again, or per- 
haps by the time you have another witness she should be here. 

Sir. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I will call another witness. In the 
meantime, Mr. Kenny, would you mind checking on the progress she 
is making? 

Mr. Kenny. Assuming that the next witness is not also a client 
of mine. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to give you time now to check up on 
the itinerary. 

Mr. Wood. If you are going to do so we are going to have a break 
in the hearings anyway, so what about taking 15 or 20 minutes recess. 

We will stand in recess for 20 minutes. (A recess was here taken.) 

Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order. Mr. Counsel, are you 
ready to proceed? 

Mr. Tavenner. I undertand Mrs. Abowitz is here now. 

Mr. Wood. Are you Mrs. Abowitz ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Yes, I am, Mr. Wood. 

Mr. Wood. Hold up your right hand, please, ma'am, and be sworn. 
You do solemnly swear the evidence you give this subcommittee will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel, Mrs. Abowitz ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I am. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record. 

Mr. Kenny. Yes ; I am Robert W. Kenny of Los Angeles. 

Mr. Wood. Mrs. Abowitz, be seated, and I would like to inform you 
that under the rules of this committee of long standing you have 
the right to confer with your counsel at any time during the progress 
of your interrogation and obtain any advice or suggestions which you 
find yourself in need of. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Thank you. 

Mr. Wood. Counsel having been before this committee on frequent 
occasions is familiar, of course, with his rights under the rules of the 
committee. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Does one speak into any special microphone here? 

Mr. Wood. I can't hear you. 

Mr. Kenny. I tell you, just speak at Mr. Tavenner over there and 
everybody will hear you and the mechanics will be taken care of. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you can speak so I can hear you they will all 
hear you. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Well, I can hear you, Mr. Tavenner. I first want to 
say that I am very sorry to have inconvenienced all of you gentlemen 
this morning. However, television is a very fine medium. At least 
five people called me up because they were watching the session here, 
and a neighbor called me up and said, "Ellenore, you better get down 
there immediately. You are going to be arrested." So I told her 



1654 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

my problem, and she offered to drive me down the hill. I live on a 
very high hill, and it is 3 miles from the closest public transportation, 
so I wish to thank the television station, and I am sorry if I have 
inconvenienced any of you. 

TESTIMONY OF ELLENORE ABOWITZ, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 
COUNSEL, ROBERT W. KENNY 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Ellenore Abowitz. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell both names? 

Mrs. Abowitz. E-1-l-e-n-o-r-e A-b-o-w-i-t-z. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mrs. Abowitz? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I was born in Boston, Mass. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you followed a profession ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I beg your pardon? 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you followed a profession ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I don't think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you occupied a position of employment of 
any kind ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Well, I have had — frankly, I haven't had very much 
gainful employment, and when you ask me about employment, I don't 
know exactly what you mean. The first job I had was when I got 
out of Long Beach Polytechnic High School ; for 2 hours I was once 
working in a dime store and I was fired because I couldn't make any 
change. That was during the depression, and jobs were hard to get,, 
so I don't remember at this point the next time that I had a paid job. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, if your positions of employment have been 
few, you should not have any difficulty describing them to us. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Well, perhaps if there is something you are particul- 
arly interested in, Mr. Tavenner, I could be helpful. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am interested in general background information 
relating to all the witnesses who apper before our committee in order 
that the committee may properly understand and appreciate and 
evaluate the testimony of the witness. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Well, perhaps I better tell you about my education, 
then. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. I was coming to that, but we will take 
that first, if you like. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Fine. It is very short. I went to grammar high 
school at the Marengo Grammer School in Alhambra, Calif., and I 
went to the Franklin Junior High School in Long Beach, Calif. I 
went to Polytechnic High School in Long Beach, and I went to what 
is now the Long Beach State College, and that is the extent of my 
formal education. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now if you will return to the question of your em- 
ployment. 

Mrs. Abowitz. I think that I was employed for about a year by the 
Works Progress Administration. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I believe it was between 1939 and 1940 — I think. 
I'm not very good at dates. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you had employment since that time, that is 
paid employment? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 6155 

Mrs. Abowitz. May I consult with my counsel, please? 

Mr. Wood. Yes, you may. 

Mrs. Abowitz (after conferring with her counsel). Yes, I have had 
paid employment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry, I couldn't hear you. 

Mr. Abowitz. I said, yes, I have had paid employment. 

Mr. Tavenner. What did that consist of? 

I mean by that, how were you employed ? 

Mrs. Abowitz (after conferring with counsel). I am sorry, Mr. 
Chairman, but may I consult with counsel ? 

Mr. Wood. Yes. You have that privilege any time you desire. 

Mrs. Abowitz. I don't like to delay this. 

Mr. Wood. That's all right. 

Mr. Tavenner. We will be patient. 

Mrs. Abowitz (after conferring with her counsel). I am sorry. 
Will you repeat the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. My question was : What other employment have 
you had since the time you were employed by the WPA, and which 
I think you said was about 1038 or 1939 ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I am sorry, I am getting a bit rattled here. 

Mr. Tavenner. It seems to me it is a very simple question. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Perhaps it is simple to you, Mr. Tavenner, but it 
isn't to me. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Is it the question or the answer that is complicated ? 
If it is the question I will try to ask it in another way. 

Mrs. Abowitz. I wish you would. 

Mr. Tavenner. What position of employment have you had in the 
past 5 years? What positions, if any? 

Mrs. Abowitz. What year would 5 years be, 1945 ? 

Mr. Tavenner. If it is a question of time then I think I will have 
to return to my former question and just ask you, What employment 
have you had since 1939 ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. (after conferring with counsel) . I think that at some 
time since that time I have been a secretary. 

Mr. Tavenner. A secretary employed by whom ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Mr. Chairman, I claim my privilege under the fifth 
amendment and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Abowitz, the committee has information that 
you were at one time a witness before the California Committee on 
Un-American Activities — that is what is known as the Tenney Com- 
mittee — and that it appears from page 294 of the records of that 
committee that you were questioned as to whether or not you had 
ever been a member of the Communist Party and that you replied 
that you had not been. Am I correct in that ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I don't remember, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. You do not remember what your answer was ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. May I consult counsel, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Wood. Yes, ma'am. 

Mrs. Abowitz (after conferring with her counsel). May I see the 
transcript, please, if you have one? 

Mr. Tavenner. I will try to look it up. While we are looking for 
it may I ask you if you recall having appeared as a witness before 
the committee ? 



1656 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mrs. Abowitz. Yes, I do recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that in 1947? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. I refer to page 294 of the 1947 report, which is known 
as the third report of the committee, where there appears this question 
by Mr. Combs : 

Q. Mrs. Abowitz, are you a member of tbe Communist Party? 

A. No, I am not. 

Q. Did you affiliate with it? 

A. No. 

If you would like to examine the record to refresh your recollection 
about it I will be very glad to hand it to you. 

Mrs. Abowitz. (after conferring with her counsel). It says that in 
the book, Mr. Tavenner, so I might have said that. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is in the book just exactly as I read it, is it? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Oh, I had no doubts about your reading it, no. 

Mr. Wood. I didn't get the answer to the question as to whether or 
not she gave that testimony before the committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. She really hasn't stated yet. She stated it was 
in the book. 

Mr. Wood. Was that your testimony before the committee ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. It might have been. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there any doubt in your mind about that? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I don't know. I can't recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does not the printed record made m 1947 of your 
appearance before the committee refresh your recollection as to your 
appearance there and your testimony ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Frankly, Mr. Tavenner, I am not even sure about 
the year, and I am not even sure that it was 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. But the matter of whether or not you were a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party is a matter which one would not ordinarily 
forget, it being questioned before an investigating committee. It is 
a little hard for me to understand how you could possibly not remem- 
ber having been asked the question of whether or not you were a 
member of the Communist Party, particularly after having been 
shown the record of it. 

Mrs. Abowitz (after conferring with her counsel). I don't want 
to vouch for the transcript, Mr. Tavenner. That is one of my problems, 
incidentally. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not asking you to vouch for it. I am asking 
you if you do not recall having been asked the question of whether 
or not you were a member of the Communist Party and that you 
answered, "No." I have merely given you the record to help you 
to refresh your recollection 

Mrs. Abowitz. Well, I want to say again, if I may, that I am not — 
I am neither vouching for the transcript nor for the record in that 
book. Strange things have happened — I think that strange things 
could happen in those particular transcripts and that particular 
book- 

Mr. Wood. Mrs. Abowitz, the question that is asked you now, irre- 
spective of what is in the book, is : Did you appear before that com- 
mittee and give the testimony that you have been asked about ? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1657 

Mrs. Abowitz. Having read what is supposed to be the transcript 
in the book which Mr. Tavenner had sent over here, I would say that 
probably I might have answered that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there any uncertainty whatever in your mind 
about that ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. It has been a long time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Oh, 4 years is not very long. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Four years ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, 1947. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Well, I am not sure, Mr. Tavenner, that it was 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, whether 1946, 1947, or 1948, it is an insignifi- 
cant matter as compared with the question of whether or not you were 
asked a question of that character and that you gave a categorical 
answer. Now, I am asking 3^011 to tell the members of this committee 
whether or not you were asked that question and whether or not you 
answered it. 

Mrs. Abowitz. I can't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. You can't remember ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I beg your pardon. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall 

Mrs. Abowitz. Mr. Tavenner, I'm sorry. I don't want to be a re- 
calcitrant witness, and I don't want to take up too much time, but 
I don't find myself here feeling very comfortable, and I think you can 
understand that, and if I have an inclination to get a bit rattled, please 
forgive me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes; and for that reason I do not want to hurry 
you. I want you to have every opportunity to recall this matter, be- 
cause it is important. 

Mrs. Abowitz. And consequently, I will have to ask your indulgence 
and discuss this matter with my counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. I suggest that you may feel perfectly at ease. If 
you need time to consider, if you need time to refresh your recollection, 
we are happy to have you have that time. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Thank you. 

(The witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Wood. Are you prepared now to give an answer ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I think so. 

Mr. Wood. All right. 

Mrs. Abowitz. I remember substantially giving that testimony, Mr. 
Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Thank you very much. Now, do you recall also that 
it was suggested at that hearing that you were known in the Communist 
Party by a name other than your full name ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I claim my privilege under the fifth amendment and 
decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. No, I think you have misunderstood me. I haven't 
asked you what your Communist Party name was. I asked you if you 
recall whether or not you were asked a question during that hearing 
regarding the use by you of a Communist Party name, other than your 
name. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Well, I will have to — rather, I desire to claim my 
privilege. 

Mr. Wood. Well, do you? 



1658 COMMUNISM IN MOTION- PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mrs. Abowitz. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Wood. Do you claim your privilege ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Will you excuse me, please? I'm sorry. 

Mr. Wood. You say } 7 ou desire to do it. The question is whether 
or not you do claim your privilege. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Will you excuse me, please, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Wood. Yes. 

(The witness confers with counsel.) 

Mrs. Abowitz. May I see the transcript, please, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean in order to refresh your recollection ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Mr. Tavenner, as I recall, when I was on the witness 
stand before the so-called Tenney committee, I believe I was there for 
a long time. Mr. Tenney and I got into a slight ruckus, and this went 
on for several hours. I was also quite excited at the time, and if 
you — you can't possibly think that testimony covering several hours 
is fresh in my mind at this point. Frankly, I don't have too clear a 
recollection of what the questions and answers were, because the whole 
thing developed into a rather personal feud between Mr. Tenney and 
me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, then, let me refresh your recollection from 
the record. The record of this hearing, the same hearing, at page 
295, which is the page just following that which you saw before, there 
appears this: 

Q. Is it a fact or is it not that your Communist Party name was Margaret 
Pettos, P-e-t-t-o-s? — A. I am sorry, the name is unfamiliar to me. 

Q. That is not a fact, then? — A. I say, the name is not familiar to me. 

Q. Yes ; but I have to get a categorical answer into the record, either affirma- 
tive or negative. — A. Oh, no. 

Will you hand the record to the witness that she may examine what 
I have read, and I will ask you now, after having heard what I read 
to you and after seeing it in the record, yourself, whether or not that 
refreshes your recollection. 

(Witness consults with counsel.) 

(Document was handed to witness.) 

Mrs. Abowitz. I'm sorry, Mr. Tavenner, and I want to say again 
that I don't want to be recalcitrant and I don't want to draw this thing 
out, but I frankly don't recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you examine that page at the time I handed 
you the record the first time 

Mrs. Abowitz. Oh 

Mr. Tavenner. And point out the reference that I have just made 
to you ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. No ; I didn't. I am a 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, aside from that, does not the examination of 
that record and my having, read it to you refresh your recollection 
about the question concerning your Communist Party name? 

Mrs. Abowitz. It is in the book, Mr. Tavenner. I don't know. It 
might have — it possibly did happen. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. You don't know ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I don't recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, if it was correctly transcribed — that is, the 
question and the answer — was your answer correct and truthful? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Mr. Chairman, I claim the privilege granted me 
under the fifth amendment and decline to answer that question. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1659 

Mr. Tavenner. When yon were asked the question as to whether 
or not you were a member of the Communist Party and you gave the 
answer, "No ; I am not," were you telling the truth ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. The same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. And what is the answer? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I claim my privilege under the fifth amendment 
and refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you were asked the question, "Did you affili- 
ate with the Communist Party?" and the reply is alleged to have been 
made, "No," if that reply was made, was it truthful ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. The same question, same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee, Mrs. Abowitz, is in possession of 
information that at a meeting of the Los Angeles County Communist 
Party Committee on October 2G, 1945, there were various commis- 
sions appointed of the party. That is, commissions to represent the 
Los Angeles County Communist Party in various activities, and one 
of such commissions was that known as the political relations com- 
mission. The committee is in possession of information that Charles 
Gladstone, at that time a prominent labor official in the International 
Ladies' Garment Workers, was a member of that commission, and 
Philip M. Connelly, at that time executive secretary of the Los An- 
geles CIO Council but who left that office and then became editor of 
the Daily People's World, and Dorothy R. Healey, who was known 
as organizational secretary of the Los Angeles County Communist 
Party, a person by the name of William O'Neal, who had been a 
prominent leader in the Communist Party, having occupied a posi- 
tion on State committee of the Communist Party, and Nemmy Sparks, 
who at the time was chairman of the Los Angeles County Communist 
Party, were members, and that you were also a member of that com- 
mission. 

It would be extremely helpful to this committee, if you were a 
member of that commission, that you advise the committee regard- 
ing the part it played in the infiltration of the motion-picture indus- 
try in Hollywood- 



e 



Mrs. Abowitz. Are you 

Mr. Tavenner. So I will ask you first whether or not you were 
a member of that commission. 

Mrs. Abowitz. I decline to answer, Mr. Chairman, on the ground 
that the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were meetings of the political relations commis- 
sion of the Communist Party held in your home? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Abowitz, there has been testimony taken in 
the executive session before this committee, the testimony of Dr. Men- 
dell Morton Krieger, in which he makes a reference to your alleged 
membership in the Communist Party, and I want to read that portion 
of it to you and obtain from you a statement as to whether or not it 
is true or false, or to have you make any explanation that you desire 
to make of it. These questions and answers were made and given in 
referring to Communist Party meetings and these questions were 
asked : 

How many individuals wore in attendance at these meetings? 
Dr. Krieger. Offhand, it is hard for me to honestly answer you. 



1660 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

This question was asked : 

Where did these meetings take place, do you recall? 

Dr. Krieger. Various houses. 

Do you recall the names of any of the people who owned the houses? 

Dr. Krieger. I recall one whose house we met at a few times and then there 
were a couple of others and I very honestly cannot recall their names at the 
present time. They didn't strike me as anything outstanding and I can't re- 
member their names. 

What is the name of the one individual you do remember? 

Dr. Krieger. It was a physician by the name of Murray Abowitz. 

Was his wife Ellenore present? 

Dr. Krieger. That's correct.. 

You knew both Ellenore Abowitz and Murray Abowitz as members of the 
Communist Party? 

Dr. Krieger. I did. 

Do you recall who was chairman of this cell? 

Dr. Krieger. At one time Ellenore Abowitz was. 

Is that testimony true or is it false ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Mr. Chairman, I decline to answer the question on 
the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the year 1945 — I mean to say in the year of 1944 
or 1945, did you have any official position in a political party? 

Mrs. Abowitz. (after conferring with her counsel) . Mr. Chairman, 
I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. In permitting that answer to stand, I do not want 
to leave the inference that I consider the Communist Party a political 
party. I was not addressing my attention to that and possibly my 
question was misleading to you, so I will put my question in another 
way. I will put it more direct so that there can be no misunderstanding 
of it: 

Were you a member of the California State Central Committee of 
the Democratic Party? 

Mrs. Abowitz. May I consult counsel, please ? 

Mr. Wood. Yes. 

Mrs. Abowitz (after conferring with her counsel). The difficulty 
that I am having here seems to be a good example of what this kind 
of investigation leads to, that I am puzzled about answering a ques- 
tion, the answer to which is a matter of public record. I think 

Mr. Tavenner. Maybe I can help you with that, if you will permit. 
It isn't my purpose to criticize your membership in any political party, 
but this committee will be interested in knowing whether or not while 
serving in such a capacity the influence of the Communist Party was 
brought to bear upon it and how it was done, if such be the fact. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Mr. Tavenner, I don't know that that is a question 
at this point. I was about to say, I am frankly puzzled, but I really 
don't think I am. I have been sitting here for a few days and I have 
noticed a strange sort of thing developing here, and it would seem to 
me that the Democratic members of this committee would see that 
this is really a way of finally deciding that the Democratic State Cen- 
tral Committee of the State of California could be a most bad influ- 
ence. 

Mr. Wood. Let me at this point interpose this observation, that 
this is not a political committee. There are no politics in this com- 
mittee and I hope that there won't ever be. With that information, I 
do hope that you will spare us any lecture of your views on what the 
duties of the members of the committee are, because I think they are 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1661 

all cognizant of them thoroughly. You were asked one simple question 
here and that is the question of your official connection with a certain 
committee that has been designated. Will you answer that question 
or not ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Are you asking me the question now ? 

Mr. Wood. Yes, I am asking you if you will answer the question 
that counsel has propounded to you. 

Mrs. Abowitz. Well, he answered one question and then he said he 
was going to clarify it or something, and he said something else. 

Will } T ou please ask me the question again? 

Mr. Wood. I think I can phrase it for you and couch it in the same 
language he did, and that is whether or not you were a member, and 
if so, in what position, of the California State Central Committee of 
the Democratic Party at the time indicated in the question. 

Mrs. Abowitz. The secretary of State publishes a list every 2 years 
of the members of the State central committee. 

Mr. Wood. We are not concerned about that. We are asking you 
the direct question whether or not you were. 

Mrs. Abowitz. I intend to answer the question, Mr. Wood. 

Mr. Wood. How's that? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I intend to answer the question, Mr. Wood. 

Mr. Wood. Let's do it without comment, Would you or not? 

Mrs. Abowitz. It is a matter of public record that I was a member, 
for a long time, of the State Democratic Central Committee. 

Mr. Wood. At the time indicated in the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. 1944 or 1945. 

Mr. Wood. 1944 or 1945? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I believe so. 

Mr. Wood. Is that your best recollection on the subject? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the same time did you hold any position of 
employment? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Mr. Chairman, I decline to answer that question 
on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a secretary for the attorney general of 
the State of California at that time? 

Mrs. Abowitz. May I consult counsel, please? 

Mr. Wood. Yes, ma'am. 

Mrs. Abowitz (after conferring with her counsel). No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a secretary in the attorney general's 
office of the State of California at any time? 

Mrs. Abowitz. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you employed by the attorney general of the 
State of California at any time? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I beg your pardon ? I'm sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. I say, were you employed by the attorney general 
of the State of California at any time? 

Mrs. Abowitz. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know who the attorney general was for the 
year 1944? 

Mrs. Abowitz. 1944? It was Robert W. Kenny, my counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me ; I didn't hear you. 

Mrs. Abowttz. I think it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. I didn't hear you. 



1662 COMMUXISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mrs. Abowitz. Am I not speaking loudly enough ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I didn't hear you. Maybe it was my own fault. 

Mrs. Abowitz. The attorney general in 1944, I am quite sure, was 
Robert W. Kenny, a Democrat, who is presently sitting at my left. 
He is my counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time that you served as a member of the 
California State Central Committee of the Democratic Party were 
any efforts made by the leadership of the Communist Party to influ- 
ence your action in obtaining positions of appointment for people, 
or in any other way to influence the course of action of the committee ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I decline to answer that question on previously 
stated grounds. This is really — I will withdraw that. 

(The witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. You have indicated 

Mr. Kenny. May I say something? I received a note, I don't know 
who from in the audience, and it says, "From televiewers 

Mr. Wood. Let me see the note, please. 

Mr. Kenny. Yes. It shows the problem of counsel and the witness. 

Mr. Wood. In that circumstance I think counsel understands what 
precaution he should take about it. 

Mr. Kenny. Yes; I understand. But it is unfortunate that the 
privity of consultation between attorney and client gets over the net- 
work. 

Mr. Wood. I agree with you partly about it. 

Mr. Kenny. It may be due to my resonant voice. I will try to do 
the 

Mr. Wood. I know of no way the committee can control it. It is a 
matter that counsel and his client can control, if they decide to do so. 

Mr. Kenny. We may have to consult either further away from the 
microphones or — I hate to give free legal advice over the air. I think 
it might violate a canon of ethics of the bar association. 

Mr. Walter. I am sure you wouldn't object to having people hear 
your advice. 

Mr. Kenny. Not at all. Not at standard rates for lawyers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you ready, Mr. Chairman, to resume ? 

Mr. Wood. Proceed ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall having consulted John Howard Law- 
son regarding a suggested change in the bylaws of the constitution 
for the establishment of new bylaws and constitution for the Holly- 
wood Democratic Committee? 

Mrs. Abowitz. Mr. Chairman, I decline to answer that question on 
previously stated grounds. 

(At this point Mr. Jackson left the hearing room. ) 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you an active member in the work of the 
Hollywood Democratic Committee ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. That organization, I gather from the last couple of 
days, is now an organization which is considered subversive by this 
committee. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been connected in your various activities 
with the People's Educational Center ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. There is another organization which I would like to 
ask you some questions about, one which we have observed has been 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1663 

very much in public view here in the last few days. It is the Southern 
California Chapter of the National Council of the Arts, Sciences and 
Professions. I have before me a letter which someone has sent in to 
the committee on the letterhead of that organization, signed by the 
executive director, Sarajo Lord, addressed to the doctors in the com- 
munity. Do you know anything about the formulation and distribu- 
tion of that letter among the members of the medical profession? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Sarajo Lord? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think we should introduce this 
letter in evidence. It is a letter from this presently existing chapter 
addressed to the doctors of the community, highly criticizing this com- 
mittee, urging the members of the medical profession to follow closely 
the proceedings of the committee so that they can see for themselves 
its un-American, antidemocratic conduct, and in which it urges the 
members of the medical profession to write their protests to the chair- 
man of this committee and to Representatives Jackson and Doyle who 
are the California Congressmen on this committee, and also to request 
financial and moral support in the fight to defend these men and 
women, and in so doing to protect rights of all. 

Mr. Wood. I will permit its inclusion in the record. However, in 
that connection, I think it is appropriate to state that so far as the 
chairman has been advised up to this moment, no letter has been re- 
ceived by this committee from any doctor endorsing the sentiments set 
forth in that communication but, on the contrary, scores of letters 
and communications have been received by the committee from mem- 
bers of the medical profession in this vicinity denouncing the letter 
and advising the committee of their wholehearted support of this 
investigation. I think it is fair to the medical profession, generally, 
in this locality that the record disclose that fact. 

(The instrument in question was received by the chairman as El- 
lenore Abowitz' exhibit 1, and is as follows: ) 1 

Dear Doctor: The House Committee on Un-American Activities is coming to 
Los Angeles on September 17. Ordinarily, such an event would not bring forth 
a letter to you. However, in this instance, we feel you will be concerned, be- 
cause the committee has subpenaed a large number of professional people of this 
city, including writers, actors, physicians, dentists, as well as others. 

This House committee has an infamous record. Its first chairman was the 
notorious Martin Dies, who initiated this committee's partisan-political smear 
technique. Its next chairman, J. Parnell Thomas, recently served a prison 
sentence for misuse of Government funds. The present chairman, Congress- 
man Wood, reveals his contempt of Americanism with the observation that the 
threats and intimidations of the Ku Klux Klan are an old American custom. 

The committee, at the cost of over $1,000,000 to the American taxpayer, has 
concerned itself almost exclusively with intimidating, smearing by innuendo, and 
depriving of their livelihoods liberal-minded people whose views run counter 
to those of the committee. At no time has the professional competence and 
integrity of the subpenaed people been questioned. 

This committee is not an impartial investigating body. It has prejudged ideas, 
organizations, and people, as shown by its listing as subversive over 200 publica- 
tions, and over 600 organizations without proper investigation or hearing. 

The committee has spent 4 years investigating Hollywood. As a result, many 
fine people have lost their jobs for refusal to cooperate in what they consider 
to be the destruction of our democratic rights. It is common knowledge that 
these actions have led to a deterioration of motion-picture content. Fear pervades 

1 Retained in committee files. 



1664 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

the entire industry — fear of acting in, or writing, or producing, or directing 
anything that in the remotest way might be considered "subversive" by this 
committee. 

In conducting its "investigations" this committee has consistently violated the 
first and fifth amendments to the Constitution. These amendments guarantee 
not only the right to speak, write, and think freely, but also the right to remain 
silent about one's beliefs. The fifth amendment, which provides that no person 
shall be compelled to be a witness against himself, is fundamental to our 
democracy. It was intended to protect the individual from being forced by the 
Government to reveal his political or religious views, and thus subject himself 
to persecution and prosecution, as indulged in by this committee. 

Any person who does not insist on this right before the committee would 
actually be helping to open the way for political and religious persecutions and 
thus destroy the foundations of democracy. 

We urge you, therefore, to follow closely the proceedings of this committee 
when it comes here, so that you may see for yourself its un-American, anti- 
democratic conduct. We urge you to write your protests to the chairman, 
Representative Wood, House Office Building, Washington, D. C, and to Repre- 
sentatives Jackson and Doyle who are the California Congressmen on this 
committee. We welcome your financial and moral support in the fight to defend 
these men and women, and in so doing, to protect the rights of all. 
Sincerely yours, 

Executive Director — Southern California Chapter of the National Council 
of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think, Mr. Chairman, that here is a letter which 
we have not had an opportunity to bring to your attention, which is 
of an official character from the medical profession, which I would 
like to read into the record. 

Mr. Wood. Yes ; I am familiar with it, but I will permit you to read 
it into the record, if you desire, 

Mr. Tavenner. This is a letter from J. M. de los Reyes, M. D., chair- 
man, public relations, Los Angeles County Medical Association, and it 
reads as follows : 

It has been alleged by the Arts, Sciences, and Professions Council that a facet 
of the Communist investigation by the House Committee on Un-American Activi- 
ties constitutes an attack against the medical profession. The Los Angeles County 
Medical Association, representing nearly 5,000 doctors of medicine which con- 
stitutes the majority of the doctors of medicine in the county of Los Angeles, 
welcomes any investigation of communism or Communist-front activities regard- 
less of where they exist, and do not feel that this or similar investigations are 
now and can conceivably become an attack in any way upon the medical profes- 
sion. The American Medical Association, the California Medical Association, 
and the Los Angeles County Medical Association, by their actions and loyalty 
oaths, have shown unequivocally their support of the American way of life. 

This letter is signed at the bottom of it : 

Approved, Paul D. Foster, secretary-treasurer, Los Angeles County Medical 
Association. 

Now, Mrs. Abowitz, at the time of the consideration of the send- 
ing of the letter with which the medical profession was circularized, 
information has come to the attention of the committee that a ques- 
tion arose within that organization — that is, the Southern California 
Chapter of National Council of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions at 
a meeting on August 23, 1951, as to whether that letter should be 
signed personally by Dr. Abowitz, Dr. Bigelman, Dr. Schoen, 
S-c-h-o-e-n, and that you charged Dr. Schoen with deviating from the 
policy of the organization with reference to the signing of that docu- 
ment by the three doctors. Is that correct ? 

Mrs. Abowitz. I decline to answer that question, Mr. Tavenner, 
on the same grounds. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1665 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think that is all I desire to ask the 
witness. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter, I yield to 3-011 for any questions you have. 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle '. 

Mr. Doyle. I don't think I have anything further. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. I have no questions. 

Mr. Wood. Any reason why this Avitness shouldn't be excused from 
further attendance on the committee? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. It is so ordered, and the committee will stand in recess 
for 1 hour and 15 minutes. 

(Whereupon, at the hour of 12: 30 p. m. a recess was taken in the 
above hearings until the hour of 1 : 45 p. m. of the same day.) 

afternoon session 

(At the hour of 1 : 50 p. m. of the same day, Thursday, September 
20, 1951, at the same place, the same parties being present, the hear- 
ings were resumed.) 

Mr. Wood. Let us have order, please, and let the record disclose that 
the full subcommittee is present. 

Are you ready to proceed, Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Whom will you call ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Miss Marguerite Roberts. 

Mr. Cohn. May I respectfully request, Mr. Chairman, that there 
be no television, in accordance with the practice that has been fol- 
lowed this morning? 

Mr. Wood. Who are you, please? 

Mr. Cohn. I am her counsel. 

Mr. Wood. I would rather have the witness make her own re- 
quest, if she will come forward. 

Mr. Cohn. Thank you. Will you come forward? 

Mr. Wood. Will you be sworn, please? Raise your right hand. 
Do 3"ou solemnly swear the evidence you give this subcommittee shall 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth ? 

Miss Roberts. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. Do you object to testifying before tele- 
vision ? 

Miss Roberts. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. Your wishes will be respected. Have a seat. 
The same injunction that has been invoked with respect to other wit- 
nesses who have objected is invoked here. Are you represented by 
counsel at this hearing? 

Miss Roberts. I am. , 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Cohn. Sidney Cohn, New York State. 

Mr. Wood. Do you object to being photographed? 

Miss Roberts. I would rather not, but 

Mr. Wood. If you object I will ask the photographers to get their 
picture immediately and desist. 



1666 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner (addressing photographers) . Whatever pictures you 
desire to take, please take them. 

Are you ready, Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. Wood. Yes. Proceed now, and in the light of the wishes of the 
witness I will have to ask the photographers to refrain now from 
taking pictures. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand there is some difficulty about the am- 
plifying system. The press cannot hear. 

Mr. Cohn. Will you tell us what you would like, Mr. Tavenner, 
and we will try to accommodate you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Miss Roberts. I will try to speak loudly. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you speak as though you are speaking to me 
without the aid of the apparatus before you 

Miss Roberts. All right, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe it will be all right. 

TESTIMONY OF MARGUERITE ROBERTS, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 

COUNSEL, SIDNEY COHN 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what is your full name, please? 

Miss Roberts. My name is Marguerite Sanford. My professional 
name is Marguerite Roberts. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your maiden name ? 

Miss Roberts. Smith. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Miss Roberts. I was born in Clarks, Nebr. ; C-1-a-r-k-s, Nebr. 

Mr. Tavenner. You state that Roberts is your professional name ? 

Miss Roberts. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what is your profession ? 

Miss Roberts. I am a screen writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been a screen writer ? 

Miss Roberts. About 19 years, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time have you engaged in 
your profession here in Hollywood ? 

Miss Roberts. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to Hollywood ? 

Miss Roberts. Late in 1926 or early 1927. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly what your educational train- 
ing for your profession has been '. 

Miss Roberts. Yes, I will. I went to grade school in Clarks, Nebr., 
Pilger, P-i-1-g-e-r, Fullerton, F-u-1-l-e-r-t-o-n, and a year's high school 
in Fullerton, Nebr., and then I finished high school in Kersey, Colo., 
K-e-r-s-e-y. Then I had about 6 months at business college and that's 
all. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your record of employment, briefly? 

Miss Roberts. I have been working summers since 1 was 14; that's 
kind of long. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let us take since 1926 when you came to Holly- 
wood. 

Miss Roberts. I worked as a secretary for a couple of years, then I 
worked as a reader in the story department of Fox Film Corp. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you employed as a reader? 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1667 

Miss Roberts. About G months. I sold a story and they gave me 
an opportunity to do the screen play, which I did, and I have been a 
writer since then. 

(At this point Representative John S. Wood left the hearing 
room.) 

Mr. Tavexxer. What are some of the screen credits you have re- 
ceived as a screen writer? 

Miss Roberts. Well, there are very many. May I confine myself 
to the last 12% years, when I have been at Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer? 

Mr. Tavexxer. I did not intend to ask you for all of them. Some 
of the principal ones. 

Miss Roberts. All right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just those that you choose to name, that we may 
have a little more information with regard to you. 

Miss Roberts. The last lS 1 /^ years at Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer: Es- 
cape, Ziegfeld Girl, Somewhere I'll Find You, Dragon Seed, Sea of 
Grass, Desire Me, If Winter Comes, The Bribe, Ambush, and they 
have just finished shooting Ivanhoe. 

(The witness conferred with counsel.) 

Miss Roberts. I have been continuously employed at the studio for 
12% years and naturally I worked on other things that I did not 
receive screen credit on. 

Mr. Tavexxer. It is the desire of this committee to investigate 
and to look into the matter of Communist infiltration in Hollywood. 
You have been prominently identified with the industry over a con- 
siderable period of years and the committee would very much like for 
you to tell it what you know about Communist infiltration in Holly- 
wood, if you will. 

Miss Roberts (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that question on the ground that it violates my rights under the first 
and fifth amendments of the Constitution. 

(The witness conferred with counsel.) 

Miss Roberts. However, may I say something else ? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes, proceed. 

Miss Roberts. I am not a member of the Communist Party. I be- 
lieve in the constitutional form of government of the United States. 
I will fight for my country against any other country. I wish to make 
that clear. 

Mr. Tavexner. I understand you are not a member of the Com- 
munist Party from your statement. 

Miss Roberts. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the course of the testimony here yesterday Mr. 
Martin Berkeley stated that you were a member of the Communist 
Party and belonged to a cell with which he was connected, or rather 
a group of the Communist Party with which he was connected. 
Mr. Walter. When was that, Mr. Tavenner ? 
Mr. Tavenner. The year was not exactly fixed by the testimony. 

(The witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavexxer. But when Mr. Berkeley was testifying regarding 
that matter he was speaking of fraction meetings with minority groups 
which meant Communist Party members who were in organizations 
relating to minority groups. If you will just wait a moment I will 
try to identify that a little more fully. In the course of his testimony, 
relating to you and others about attending fraction meetings, Mr. 

81595 — 51— pt. 5-^3 



1668 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Berkeley said that these fraction meetings ran over a period of time. 
Jerome Chodorov, one of the authors of My Sister Eileen, was a 
party member, Lester Koenig, who is now an associate producer, 
Roland Kibbee and Marguerite Roberts, wife of John Sanford, a 
writer, Morton Grant, Melvin Levy, Allen Boretz, coauthor of Room 
Service, and Hy Kraft were members. Now, I think that sufficiently 
identifies the group that would enable you to answer the question as 
to whether or not Mr. Martin in so testifying was telling the truth, 
so far as you were concerned. 

When I said "Mr. Martin," I meant to say "Mr. Martin Berkeley." 

Miss Roberts. Well, I decline to answer on the grounds stated 
before, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand that you state you are not now a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party. 

Miss Roberts. My exact words were, "I am not a member of the 
Communist Party." 

Mr. Tavenner. You are speaking in the present tense. 

Miss Roberts. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you will not answer the question as to whether 
or not Mr. Martin Berkeley was correct in his testimony ? 

Miss Roberts. I decline to answer on the grounds stated before,. 
Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time a member of a fraction meet- 
ing of the Communist Party ? 

Miss Roberts. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on 
Sunday, the day before the committee went into session ? 

Miss Roberts. I decline to answer on the grounds stated before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party 
yesterday ? 

Miss Roberts. I decline to answer on the grounds stated before, Mr.. 
Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is this position that you now take, namely that 
you are not a member of the Communist Party now, just merely a 
cloak or a new dress that you are wearing today, especially for this 
occasion, your appearance before this committee? 

Miss Roberts. Definitely not, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you cease to become a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Miss Roberts. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated, sir. 

( The witness conferred with her counsel. ) 

And I have given no testimony that I ever admitted being a 
Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. But there is evidence here by Mr. Berkeley that you 
were a member 

Miss Roberts. I decline to comment 



Mr. Tavenner. Which you have not denied. 

Miss Roberts. I decline to comment on Mr. Berkeley's testimony 
on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think in the light of your explanation that you 
are not willing to testify as to whether or not you were a member 
of the Communist Party yesterday, though you are maintaining that 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1669 

you are not a member of the Communist Party now while you are 
sitting there, that I should ask you— I think it is fair that I should 
ask you whether you propose to be a member of the Communist Party 
when this committee has ceased its investigation here in Hollywood 
and has returned to Washington. 

Miss Roberts. Definitely not. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Doyle, any questions? 

Mr. Doyle. Were you ever a member of the Communist Party or 
any fraction thereof? 

Miss Roberts. I decline to answer, sir, on the grounds stated above. 

Mr. Doyle. You have had a very distinguished career and pros- 
perous career in your profession. Have you ever had called to your 
attention the Federal statute under which this committee is charged 
with making an investigation of subversive conduct in America? 

Miss Roberts. Yes; I understand you are a legal committee, a 
legally constituted committee. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, that wasn't quite my question. Naturally, your 
attorney will tell you that, because he knows it is. I assume that you 
are divine; the answer that he told vou. 

Miss Roberts. Oh, no, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. That is. that he has advised you it was a legal com- 
mittee, but now I am not asking you that question. Do you know 
the purposes of this committee which is questioning you today ? 

Miss Roberts. Well. I believe the stated purposes are to show sub- 
versive influences in Hollywood and on the screen ; is that it? 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that your 

Miss Roberts. That is my understanding. 

Mr. Doyle. You mean that our job is to show that? 

Miss Roberts. Well, or to investigate it. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, that is substantially correct, but not limited, I 
assure you, to Hollywood. 

Miss Roberts. Well, that is the place that touches me. 

Mr. Doyle. We are not particularly aiming at just Hollywood. We 
are aiming at subversive people and programs wherever they exist in 
our country. We are not picking on Hollywood, except that we have 
plenty of evidence that there have been and maybe are now dangerous 
elements in Hollywood. For instance, we had testimony the other 
day that there were fat cows in Hollywood from whom money was 
being taken, and now just to give you that 

Mr. Cohn. You are not implying that Miss Roberts is a fat cow? 

Mr. Doyle. Oh, no. 

Mr. Cohn. I didn't think so. 

Mr. Doyle. I don't think vou have been in the hearing room before 
today, have you? 

Miss Roberts. No, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. So I thought I would make it clear to you that we are 
not undertaking to pick on Hollywood. That was never mentioned 
in the bill. The statute, Miss Roberts, even goes to the point of saying 
we shall investigate subversive and un-American propaganda that 
might emanate from some foreign country into our country, as well as 
domestic. Did you ever read the constitution of the Communist Party ? 

Miss Roberts. No, sir. 



1670 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Doyle. Did vou ever read the by-laws of the Communist 
Party? 

Miss Roberts. No, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you ever see in any literature of the Communist 
Party, if you ever read any, any pledge of allegiance to the United 
States of America? 

Miss Roberts. I am not familiar with that sort of literature; I'm 
sorry. 

Mr. Doyle. I know you must be widely read, because you have 
had such success in your own profession, and, naturally, when you 
claim the benefit of the fifth amendment, for which claim we do not 
criticize you — I want you to realize that — nevertheless, when you 
claim that protection on the theory that you might incriminate your- 
self, I, as a lawyer and a member of the bar — you have a very able 
lawyer by your side 

Mr. Cohn. Thank you. 

Mr. Doyle. I have come to inferentially, at least, accept that which 
shows in our records that, generally speaking, a person who claims 
that privilege either at that time is a Communist or shortly prior 
thereto was. 

I am not saying now or I am not inferring that you are or were, 
but I will say to you that our records show that, generally speaking, 
the persons that claim that privilege at the moment they claim it are 
Communists. Now, therefore, I want to ask you, if I may, a couple 
of other questions. Are you in sympathy with any of the objectives 
of the Communist Party in America? 

Miss Roberts. Well, I don't know much about them, I must con- 
fess. I am really not a political student. I am a writer and I am not 
a political student. 

Mr. Doyle. I realize that. 

Miss Roberts. But I have told you that I believe in the Constitution 
of the United States, and if any Communist beliefs run contrary to 
that, then I would be against them ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Then I take it that you approve the purposes of this 
committee in uncovering subversive attacks against our form of 
government ? 

Miss Roberts. Well, sir, I think you have done quite a bit of harm 
to us. 

Mr. Doyle. In what way ? 

Miss Roberts. Well, I don't think you really have uncovered any 
subversive acts, and no one has seriously alleged that there has been 
any Communist propaganda in the pictures, and a lot of people really 
have suffered a lot by this. I honestly think that the bad outweighs 
the good. That is my personal opinion. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, then, of course, that answer indicates to me that 
you have been following very closely the course of the hearings, or 
else you wouldn't feel qualified to give an opinion; is that correct? 

(At this point Representative John S. Wood returned to the hearing 
room.) 

Miss Roberts. Well, in Hollywood — I am listening to the radio. 
We haven't a television, but I listened to a few of the questions. 

Mr. Wood. I will inform my distinguished colleague that he has 
violated the rule of 5 minutes — 7 minutes, in fact. 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1671 

Mr. Doyle. I will have to desist further questioning. Thank you. 

Miss Roberts. Thank yon. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Miss Roberts, are you currently employed? 

Miss Roberts. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Where? 

Miss Roberts. At Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer. 

Mr. Jackson. What was your last screen credit. Miss Roberts? 

Miss Roberts. The last one was Ambush — oh, no. Soldiers Three. 
I forgot that when I was giving the list. I kind of wanted to. 

Mr. Jackson. You have stated, I believe, that you are not now a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Miss Roberts. I have stated that I am not a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Jackson. But you have declined to answer the question as to 
your possible previous membership in the Communist Party ? 

Miss Roberts. That is true. 

Mr. Jackson. Proceeding on the knowledge that the Communist 
Party has in the past not issued membership cards, I should like to 
ask 3'OU if you will be a Communist when you leave this room or 
tomorrow ? 

Miss Roberts. No, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. You have 110 intention — in other words, you repudiate 
communism as a political concept? 

Miss Roberts. Well, yes, I do, because I am, as I have stated, a 
believer in this form of government, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. You do not believe that one can be a believer in 
the constitutional form as practiced in the United States and still 
be a practicing Communist ? 

Miss Roberts. Well, you know, that is a question that puzzles 
me, because I think that if that were true, Congress would pass a law 
outlawing the party, which it has not done. 

Mr. Jackson. Well, I might say that I imagine a great many 
Members of Congress have something of that sort in mind. 

Miss Roberts. They have not yet done it. 

Mr. Jackson. That's correct. Now, you say that a lot of people 
have suffered as a result of this investigation. I should like to sub- 
mit to you that a lot of people have suffered because of their activi- 
ties on behalf of the Communist Party that brought them before 
this committee. 

Miss Roberts. I really 

Mr. Jackson. I say, rather than blaming your present appearance 
before the committee on the committee, because I am certain that no 
member or no distinguished member of this committee has ever re- 
cruited anyone into the Communist Party, I submit to you that most 
of the witnesses who appear here are here not because of anything the 
committee has done but rather because of their own activities on be- 
half of the Communist Party. Don't you believe that is the case? 

Miss Roberts. That is your opinion, sir; it isn't mine. 

Mr. Jackson. Well, it is an opinion that is shared in many quar- 
ters by a great many Americans. This business of trying to blame 
all of one's griefs, so far as the witness chair is concerned, upon the 
committee completely is blinding one's self to the fact that their ac- 



1672 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

tivities are what have brought them here to the committee, not any- 
thing that the committee has done. That is the same as a murderer 
pleading that the judge and jury have brought him into disrepute. 
That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter, any questions? 

Mr. Potter. Miss Roberts, you stated that the Communist Party 
has not yet been outlawed, and that is true, to a certain extent. 
However, the courts have upheld the so-called Smith Act where, as 
you are familiar, I'm sure, some top Communist leaders, the leaders 
of the Communist Party of the United States, have been found 
guilty of advocating the overthrow of our Government by force 
and violence. This advocation was done through their work in the 
Communist Party. It is based upon that, and it is certainly the 
general conception, that the Communist Party is not a political party 
and the Communist Party, rather, is an arm of an international con- 
spiracy which is dedicated not only to the overthrow of our form 
of government but dedicated to the overthrow of all existing govern- 
ments until communism is the ruling government, ruling ideology 
in all count ries. 

I regret that you seek not to cooperate with the committee. When 
stating that you are not now a member of the party, it leaves the com- 
mittee and American people — -it puts them in sort of a contradictory 
position, as far as your testimony is concerned. I have nothing 
further, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Counsel, do you have any further questions of the 
witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

I understood you to state that this committee, so far, has not been 
able to disclose any actual act of subversion in Hollywood, and I under- 
stand that was a criticism of this committee, that it would undertake 
to investigate a matter of this kind. 
Miss Roberts. No criticism, sir ; comment only. 
Mr. Tavenner. Just a comment? 
Miss Roberts. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I would like, in that connection, for you to 
consider the fact just as pointed out by one of the members of the 
committee, that there has been considerable evidence before this com- 
mittee over a long period of time of the aims and objects of the Com- 
munist Party with regard to its purpose and its intention of the over- 
throw of the Government of the United States by use of force and 
violence, if necessary, and the fact that it has been shown through 
numerous witnesses during the course of this investigation that hun- 
dreds of thousands of dollars have been contributed by persons in 
your industry who are members of this party, and that that was one 
reason why the Communist Party has endeavored to infiltrate your 
industry, to tap this great source of revenue for the purposes of the 
Communist Party. 

Now, do you not think, and will you not be fair enough to state, 
that that is a matter of vital interest to the people of the United 
States? 

Mr. Cohn. May we confer for a moment, sir ? 
Mr. Tavenner. Certainly. 

Miss Roberts. I wish to make clear that I do not intend criticism 
of the committee, and I think you brought out in your testimony that 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1673 

there has been no Communist propaganda in pictures and that's what 
I was saying. And I feel that yon have been doing the job you have 
been sent here for, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do yon not think that it is and should be the duty 
of this committee to advise the Congress of the United States if such 
a thing is going on in the industry, as I have just mentioned, that of 
making large contributions, possibly into the millions, for the ad- 
vancement of the cause of the Communist Party in this country? 

Miss Roberts (after conferring with her counsel). Yes, sir, if you 
find that, I think you should tell them. 

Mr. Tavenner. That has been developed in the course of this investi- 
gation and we would like your help in connection with it. I would 
like for you to tell this committee what you know about the tapping 
of this great source of wealth here by the Communist Party for Com- 
munist Party purposes. 

Miss Roberts. I have no knowledge of it, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you take any part in it, in the sense of making 
donations or contributions, or the payment of dues to the Communist 
Party? 

Miss Roberts (after conferring with her counsel). I decline to 
answer on the grounds stated before, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Does any other member of the committee have any 
questions ? 

Mr. Jackson. One short question. 

Mr. Wood. I yield to Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. I believe you said this committee has, to the best of 
your knowledge, not uncovered any evidence of subversion during the 
course of its investigation. 

Miss Roberts. Subversive acts. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you consider the removal from the top secret 
files of the United States Government, their photography and trans- 
mittal to Soviet agents to be an act of subversion? 

Miss Roberts. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Have you ever heard of an individual called Alger 
Hiss? 

Miss Roberts. Yes ; sure. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you know that Alger Hiss was before this com- 
mittee, that much of the work that went into his trial and conviction 
came as the result of work done in this committee ? 

Mr. Cohn. May we confer a moment, Mr. Jackson? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Miss Roberts. I wasn't referring to any of your activities outside 
of Hollywood, sir. I know very little about them. 

Mr. Jackson. The nature of the Communist Party is subversive. 
Whether that subversion takes the form of subverting the minds and 
souls of men, or whether it consists of transmitting secret files, the 
nature of its work is still in my humble opinion subversive. 

I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Does any other member have a question that they would 
like to ask the witness? 

Mr. Tavenner. No further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness shouldn't be ex- 
cused from further attendance, Mr. Counsel ? 



1674 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. It's all right to dismiss her. 

Mr. Wood. It is so ordered. Whom do you have % 

Mr. Tavenner. Michael Wilson. 

Mr. Wood. Is Michael Wilson in the courtroom? Are you Michael 
Wilson? 

Mr. Wilson. I am. 

Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn, please? 
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give this com- 
mittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Wilson. I do. 

Mr. W t ood. Be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL WILSON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, ROBERT W. KENNY 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel, sir ? 

Mr. Wilson. I am, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Kenny. Robert W. Kenny, Los Angeles. 

Mr. Wood. You may proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Michael Wilson ? 

Mr. Wilson. Mr. Tavenner, may I introduce a statement for the 
record ? 

Mr. Tavenner. You will address your remarks to the chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Is it in writing ? 

Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Hand it to the clerk. It will be received by the com- 
mittee. 

Before proceeding I would like to remind you, Mr. Wilson, that fol- 
lowing the well-established custom of this committee you have the 
right and privilege of conferring with your counsel at any time you 
may desire in connection with your interrogation here and obtain 
from him such advice and suggestion that you deem you are in need 
of, and your counsel, having been before the committee on frequent 
occasions, is familiar with his rights and privileges under the rules 
of the committee. 

Mr. Wilson. Mr. Chairman, may I make a request? I don't object 
to the pictures, but during the course of my giving testimony it is 
rather disconcerting. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is why I am waiting until they are finished. 

Mr. Wood. In that circumstance I will ask the photographers to 
please complete their pictures as quickly as they possibly can with 
efficiency. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please? 

Mr. Wilson. My name is Michael Wilson. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Wilson? 

Mr. Wilson. I was born on July 1, 1914, in McAlester, Okla. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a resident of California? 

Mr. Wilson. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived here ? 

Mr. Wilson. I believe since the time I was 8 or 9 years old. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession or occupation? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1675 

Mr. Wilson. I am a writer and I intend to continue being a writer 
despite any attempt to black-list me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee 

Mr. Wood. Just a moment. If by that statement you seek to leave 
the inference that anyone here is seeking- to black-list you, I want to 
take exception to it at this point and remind you, sir, that as far 
as the activities of this committee are concerned there is no attempt 
to black-list anybody. 

Mr. Wilson. Well, it seems to me, Mr. W T ood, that in view of the 
fact that 3 days after I announced to my employer that I had a sub- 
pena from your committee, despite the fact that I had been accused of 
nothing, I was taken off the payroll. 

Mr. Wood. Under those circumstances, sir, I hope by your testimony 
here you will convince your employer that your removal from the 
payroll was without justification and we are giving you the oppor- 
tunity to do just that on the best forum that I know of. So far as 
your critical remarks are concerned with reference to this committee, 
I might point out to you that from time immemorial it has been the 
custom of people who are accused and charged with things that are 
in violation of a constitution and laws and custom, to denounce the 
investigating authorities. Indeed we had an exemplification .of that 
doctrine as far back as the early days of the history of English juris- 
prudence. One of the great legal commentaries made use of the ex- 
pression, "No man e'er felt the halter drawn with good opinion of the 
law." 

Mr. Wilson. I can't see how any reasonable man could say that. 
Without this committee there would be no black list. 

Mr. Wood. I don't see how any reasonable man can say that there 
would ever be a black list except by the actions and conduct of those 
who are black-listed, if there are such. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your training for your profession, 
Mr. Wilson? 

Mr. Wilson. My education, sir? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Just in brief. 

Mr. Wilson. I attended the Catholic schools in Oklahoma City, 
Catholic and public schools in California. I went to high school in 
Berkeley, I was graduated in 1936 from the University of California 
with honors in philosophy ; I had 3 years of postgraduate study, one 
as a teaching assistant in English, one as a Thelan Fellowship of 
Creative Literature, one as the Gayley Fellowship in American His- 
tory. This is pretty much my formal education. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the practice of your profession as a writer have 
you been engaged in screen writing ; is that the type of writing ? 

Mr. Wilson. I have, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What have been your principal screen credits as a 
writer ? 

Mr. Wilson. I believe my first credit was a picture called The Men 
In Her Life. This was before the war; I believe in about 1940, 1941. 
I then did a number of Hopalong Cassidy pictures, which are those 
that are now corrupting our children on the television screens of the 
Nation. I then entered the service of my country, and after the 
war, 3 years later, I was again employed. I contributed to a pic- 



1676 COMMUXISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

ture called It's a Wonderful Life. I was the coauthor of a picture 
called A Place in the Sun, based on Mr. Theodore Dreiser's An Amer- 
ican Traged} T , which has recently been released. 

I wrote a picture called Five Fingers, which is now in production at 
Twentieth Century-Fox. I also wrote a couple of screen plays which 
have not yet been produced, one on Thomas Wolfe's novel, Look 
Homeward, Angel, and a second called The Friendly Persuasion, 
which was about the Quaker people. 

I might add, Mr. Tavenner, that I feel that this committee might 
take the credit, or part of it at least, for the fact that The Friendly 
Persuasion was not produced, in view of the fact that it dealt warmly, 
in my opinion, with a peace-loving people. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of course, this committee has no knowledge of the 
intimate details of your contract or your relationship with your em- 
ployer. I see from this very fine record of production of work that 
you have been engaged for a very substantial period in the industry, 
the moving-picture industry. You should be in a position to help this 
committee, if you will, regarding the subject of its inquiry, and that 
is the nature and the extent of Communist Party infiltration into the 
moving-picture industry. Are you willing to cooperate with the 
committee in that manner ? 

Mr. Wilson. Have you posed a question, sir ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. I asked you if you are willing to co- 
operate with the committee in giving it any information which you 
may possess regarding the subject of its inquiry, which I announced. 

Mr. Wilson (after conferring with his counsel). I wish you 
would put the question more specifically, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is a very plain and simple question. 

Mr. Wilson. I see nothing simple about it because it seems to 
cover the whole world. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you want me to ask you the question as to 
whether or not you have ever been a member of the Communist Party 
before asking you whether or not you can cooperate with this com- 
mittee in its efforts to 

Mr. Wilson. You ask the questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. In its efforts to seek information regarding the 
Communist Party ? If you do, I will ask it that way. 

Mr. Wilson. Is that the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you. 

Mr. Wilson. You are asking the questions, sir. I will attempt to 
be responsive. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. Then will you be responsive to this, 
please, sir: What knowledge have you of the activities of the Com- 
munist Party in the moving-picture industry? 

Mr. Wilson. Since that is a question designed to link me with an 
organization that this committee has called subversive I shall invoke 
my privilege and my right under the fifth article of the Bill of 
Rights and decline to answer that question, and in so doing I wish 
also to protect the rights of every American citizen to the privacy of 
belief and association. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Marshal, I again request that the next time there 
is a demonstration started, if you can determine who started it, eject 
them from this room peremptorily. 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1677 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, Mr. Wilson, you are unwilling to 
give this committee the benefit of any information you may have 
regarding the subject of this investigation ? 

Mr. Wilson. I didn't say that, Mr. Tavenner. I said I decline to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I see no distinction. 

I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter, I yield to you for any question you desire 
to ask. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Wilson, in this prepared statement that you 
handed to the committee a moment ago, this is contained : 

Peace is a word of purity that I have seen this committee try to defile. 

I would like you to explain to us how this committee has tried to 
defile peace. 

Mr. Wilson. Because it is my opinion, sir, that this committee is 
beating the drums of war. It seems strange to me, and I know that 
this committee has stated it is in favor of peace — it seems strange to 
me that you are always asking people whether or not they are willing 
to bear arms to kill other people. Why don't you ever ask them if they 
are willing to fight for peace ? I believe that is my highest, the most 
sacred patriotic duty I have at this time, sir. 

Mr. Walter. I think that opinion is shared by everybody in the 
United States. We all have a different idea about peace. There are 
some people, and fortunately they are in a very, very small minority, 
who feel that peace means yielding to the Communists so that they 
can continue the aggressive steps that have been taken with the re- 
sultant subjugation and extinction, if you please, of other nations. 
Our interest in calling you wasn't to embarrass you or humiliate you. 
We know you were a Communist. We know much about your activi- 
ties. But we were hoping that you would give us some information 
with respect to the setting up of these front organizations which 
collected so much money for the Communist movement in the United 
States. That's whv you were subpenaed. 

That's all. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. I hardly know how to direct this question to you, Mr. 
Wilson, when you charge this committee with defiling peace, because 
my own son was a war casualty in the Air Force in the interests of 
peace. 

( Representative Charles E. Potter left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Wilson. I heard you say that yesterday, Mr. Doyle, and you 
have my deepest sympathies. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Potter, just walking out of this committee room, 
has two wooden limbs — look at him walk — as a result of his fight for 
peace. I can't help but resent the implications that known Com- 
munists come here and refuse to cooperate with this committee and 
come clean and help us uncover the subversive influences in this coun- 
try, when they charge us that we are defiling peace. 

We are not interested, Mr. Wilson, in getting at people or pro- 
grams that are anything less than subversive. You know Webster's 
definition, it's to overthrow, to overturn. We are not interested in 
questioning you as to any other people that are not interested in do- 
ing that. 



1678 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Wilson. But I think subversion is being committed against 
the Bill of Rights here today. That is my opinion, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. In what way? 

Mr. Wilson. I think you are invading the right of American 
citizens. 

Mr. Doyle. We are asking you merely were you ever a member of 
the Communist Party. Were you ever a member of the Communist 
Party? I will ask you that. Why don't you tell us honestly? Is 
there anything subversive about the Communist Party that would in- 
volve you in possible criminal prosecution if you ever were a member? 

Mr. Wilson. I decline to answer the question, sir, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Doyle. Of course you do. I understand that. That is your 
privilege. But I, as a father of that boy and a colleague of Potter, 
can't sit here and listen to you say that we are defiling peace. 

I was in Alaska for several days 2 weeks ago, on a committee from 
Congress, and I heard the Russian radio at Nome and Anchorage say 
to us over their broadcast that the United States were warmongers, 
imperialists, that Catherine had been imposed upon when the United 
States paid $7 million for Alaska, that we had stolen Alaska, and it 
really never was part of the United States. And you expect me to 
sit here — 

Just one second; in closing, Mr. Chairman, there are some of us 
in Congress, and I am one of them; that wouldn't stay there 30 
minutes if my life wasn't dedicated to world peace. You folks that 
are known Communists, and the records of the committee indicate 
that you are one of them, Mr. Wilson, even though you hide behind 
the fifth amendment, when you known Communists blast forth that 
we are destroying peace — how would you fight for peace? Would 
you give your life for peace? 

Mr. Wilson. I certainly would, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. How would you do it ; how would you form an army 
for peace ? 

Mr. Wilson. Well, I will try to answer that question. 

Mr. Doyle. I want you to. I am inviting you to. 

Mr. Wilson. I don't believe that we prepare for peace by prepar- 
ing for war, and in my humble opinion, if the profits were taken out 
of war, I believe there would be a lot less war hysteria in this coun- 
try today. If American boys have to die to prove their devotion to 
their country, it doesn't seem to me to be too much to ask of the war 
profiteers that they surrender their profits as a patriotic duty, and 
I think it might be good and patriotic legislation for this committee 
to propose that. 

Mr. Doyle. Listen, Wilson, you may be surprised at this answer. 
I, too, would take profits out of war. 

Mr. Wilson. Well, I am glad to hear that. 

Mr. Doyle. Listen to me. But when the United States of America, 
through the United Nations, offered to place the atomic energy under 
an international commission so we could be assured that the atomic 
bomb wouldn't be used to destroy civilization, who refused to do it? 
Russia — Soviet Union. What chance have we got to have an army for 
peace when aggressive Soviet communism is on the march over the 
world? Your philosophy would end in Soviet aggression coming in 
over the Arctic Circle where I was 2 weeks ago at Point Barrow and 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1679 

Nome, coming- in over there and capturing Alaska because we were 
unprepared to resist Soviet aggression. 

Mr. Wilson. I simply think that a third world war. Mr. Doyle, 
is simply unthinkable. 

Mr. Doyle. So do I. 

Mr. Wilson. It would be mass annihilation of peoples. 

Mr. Doyle. This committee is a darned lot harder than Commu- 
nists are. They are fighting in favor of Soviet aggression capturing 
the world for the sake of communistic ideology. I wish you would 
give your wonderful philosophical training to world peace on the 
highest plane instead of backing it through the Soviet mouth. Thank 
you very much. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Doyle. I wish we had more time, Mr. Wilson. 

Mr. Wilson. So do I. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Wilson, it appears to me that during the late 
war when the Communist Party and all of its satellites in it or by 
it were screaming for a second front, that they were not unduly con- 
cerned at that time about peace, Is this a relatively recent develop- 
ment in the philosophy of the party ? 

Mr. Wilson. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Jackson. That is a very difficult question to answer, because 
it goes to the basis of the whole thing. The Soviet Union doesn't 
want peace. The Communists don't want peace unless it is a peace 
on Soviet terms, which would be absolutely impossible for any decent, 
liberty-loving person. 

Winston Churchill once said, "I would rather die on my feet than 
live on my knees/' and I think that is what the American people are 
saying today. 

Mr. Wilson. I don't think they should die at all, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Somebody is going to die because Mr. Stalin has said 
that these two orders cannot exist side by side in the same world- This 
is a mortal fight to the finish if Mr. Stalin persists in pursuing the 
course of action he has pursued since the conclusion of World War 
II. We have leaned over backward, we have signed treaty after treaty 
in good faith, only to see them broken at the whim of a dictator, 
one who is every bit a dictator, as much a dictator as Mr. Hitler or 
Mr. Mussolini. Now, I fought against fascism for 5 years ; Mr. Pot- 
ter lost two legs. We didn't do it from a soap box. We did it out 
where deeds were being performed against fascism. We are ready to 
do it again if the need arises, and all of us hope that we can bring 
peace about through peaceful means, but to impugn the motives of this 
committee, to impugn the motives of the Congress, to say it is not 
seeking peace is a lie. 

Mr. Wilson. I believe in the peaceful coexistence, Mr. Jackson; you 
do not. Therefore you say that war is inevitable. 

Mr. Jackson. I made no statement so far as coexistence was con- 
cerned. I was quoting the head of the Soviet Union who says that only 
through violent revolution can these two systems be brought into 
harmony. I am not quoting my statement or your statement. I am 
quoting the head of the Soviet Union, the man who dictates policy 
to every Communist in this room and every Communist in southern 
California. 



1680 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Wilson. Well, this is not my forum, sir, and I might debate 
a lot of matters with you at some other time when I have equal rights. 

Mr. Jackson. Your rights have not been infringed upon. You have 
used the Constitution, which every Communist will destroy if he had 
his own way. 

Mr. Wilson. No, sir. I am here under compulsion. 

Mr. Jackson. You have come here under compulsion, but have you 
been compelled to answer any questions before this committee? 

Mr. Wilson. In a legal sense, no. 

Mr. Jackson. In a legal sense. We are talking in legal senses. 
You are talking about your constitutional rights, which are legal. 

Mr. Wilson. You bet, and if we didn't have the fifth amendment 
you would compel me to answer it. 

Mr. Jackson. If we didn't have the fifth amendment we probably 
would find out where a lot of people are at work trying to destroy 
the rest of the Bill of Rights and the rest of the Constitution of the 
United States. 

Mr. Wood. Have you any other questions, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Mr. Wilson, are you now a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Wilson. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever a member? 

Mr. Wilson. I decline to answer, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused from 
further attendance on the committee? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. So ordered. Call your next witness, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. John Sanford. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Sanford in the hearing room ? 

Are you Mr. John Sanford ? 

Mr. Sanford. I am. 

Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn, please. 
You do solemnly swear the evidence you will give this subcommittee 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Sanford. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Sanford, are you represented here by counsel? 

Mr. Sanford. Well, in a sense I am. I happen to be an attorney 
myself. 

Mr. Wood. I see. 

Mr. Sanford. They say that an attorney who has himself for a 
client has a fool, but I will take that chance. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN SANFORD 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Sanford, will you state your full name, please, 
sir? 

Mr. Sanford. John Sanford, S-a-n-f-o-r-d. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you used a professional name? 

Mr. Sanford. Well, in a sense. 

Mr. Tavenner. Different from your own? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1681 

• 

Mr. Sanford. The name John Sanford is a professional name, but 
since 1942 it has been my legal name. The name under which I was 
born was Julian Shapiro; J-u-1-i-a-n S-h-a-p-i-r-o. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you known as Jack Shapiro? 

Mr. Sanford. Well, a tew people call me by the name of Jack. Not 
many. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Sanford? 

Mr. Sanford. I was born in Xew York City on May 31, 1904. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation? 

Mr. Sanford. At the present time I am a novelist. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you reside? 

Mr. Sanford. Where do I reside? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; in what community ? 

Mr. Sanford. In Encino. Calif. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in California ? 

Mr. Sanford. Fifteen years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time, where did you live? 

Mr. Sanford. In Xew York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee briefly what your edu- 
cational background has been. 

Mr. Sanford. I went to the public and high schools of New York 
City, and thereafter I attended Lafayette College, Lehigh University, 
Northwestern University, and Fordham University. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you then known by the name of Shapiro at 
that time? 

Mr. Sanford. Julian Shapiro. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Shapiro, will you 

Mr. Sanford. No, my name— excuse me, Mr. Tavenner. My name is 
Sanford. 

Mr. Tavenner. Sanford now. Excuse me. Mr. Sanford, will you 
tell the committee what your record of employment has been since you 
came to California. 

Mr. Sanford. Well, I came to California at the behest of Para- 
mount Pictures in 1936. I worked for 1 year as a screen writer for 
Paramount. Thereafter my only other connection with moving pic- 
tures has been a 6-month term at Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer in 1941. That 
is the only connection — those are the only connections that I have 
had with motion pictures. I have not been associated with them 
since 1941. I have practiced my own profession as a novelist. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, during the period of time when you were as- 
sociated with the moving-picture industry, you should have had 
knowledge of the existence in Hollywood of an effort to infiltrate the 
Communist Party, if such existed, and the committee, as you know, 
is conducting an investigation into those matters, endeavoring to 
ascertain the extent of infiltration, the purposes of the Communist 
Party in the organizing of the motion-picture industry, and how it 
proposed to and how it has carried out its projects here. The com- 
mittee would like for you to tell it all you know regarding the infiltra- 
tion of communism in Hollywood. 

Mr. Sanford. Under the fifth amendment of the Constitution, no 
man is compelled to give evidence against himself. I therefore decline 
to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 



1682 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Sanford. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter. 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused from 
further attendance on this committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. So ordered. The committee will stand in recess for 15 
minutes. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Mr. Wood. The committee will come to order, please. 

May I have the attention of the audience. We have been operating 
here under rather difficult conditions, acoustically speaking, and the 
room is a little difficult because of the ventilation. It becomes rather 
unpleasant for members of the committee, as well as the staff and the 
witnesses. I am going to ask the marshal to eliminate standing in the 
room, and particularly sitting in the windows from which the only 
air we can get must come. Please do not block the windows. 

Mr. Counsel, who will you have ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to call Mr. David Kaksin. 

Mr. Wood. Are you Mr. Raksin % 

Mr. Raksin. I am. 

Mr. Wood. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give 
this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Raksin. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF DAVID RAKSIN 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Raksin. I have had the advice of counsel and I do not require 
him at this time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please, sir. 

Mr. Raksin. My name is David Raksin, R-a-k-s-i-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Raksin ? 

Mr. Raksin. I was born in Philadelphia, Pa., August 4, 1912. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Raksin. I reside in Northridge, Calif. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in California ? 

Mr. Raksin. I have lived in California since 1936, with one pre- 
vious trip out here for a short 7 or 8 months. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation ? 

Mr. Raksin. I am a composer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly for the committee what your 
educational training has been for your profession. 

Mr. Raksin. For my profession? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I say your general education in brief. 

Mr. Raksin. Well, my general education began in the public schools 
of Philadelphia. I then went to Central High School in Philadelphia 
and I then went to the University of Pennsylvania, from which I 
graduated. I also studied music almost all my life. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1683 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell the committee a little about your professional 
experience. By that I mean, what has been the nature of your work '. 

Mr. Raksin. Well, I have done everything from playing in dance 
hands to arranging and orchestrating music for dance hands to musical 
shows, to radio programs. I have written music for all kinds of things 
from t he serious theater to ballet. I have conducted. I also, in the 
last 15 years or so. have composed music for films. 

Mr. Tavenner. What are some of the principal productions with 
which you have been connected in your work? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, I have worked on so many. But Smokey, The 
Secret Life of Walter Mitty, Forever Amber, The Magnificent Yankee, 
The Next Voice You Hear, Whirlpool. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is sufficient. Mr. Raksin, at the close of the 
session yesterday, Mr. Martin Berkeley was called before the com- 
mittee in executive session and in the course of his testimony in 
executive session he informed the committee that for a period of time 
you had been a member of the Communist Party. I would like to 
ask you. whether or not that advice to the committee is correct. 

Mr. Raksin. It is, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you become a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Raksin. In the summer of 1038. I date it from around my 
birthday, which is in August. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain in the Communist Party? 

Mr. Raksin. I remained there until either February or March 1940. 
I take that from several facts, among which is by the time the attack 
into the Lowlands, the Netherlands, came about, I had been out for 
some time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee the circumstances 
under which you were recruited into the Communist Party? 

Mr. Raksin. I will, sir. I would like to avoid making a long pious 
speech of the things in which I believed, but I will say simply this, 
that those times were heartbreaking times to anyone who wished to 
see integrity and decency abroad in the world. Specifically, I will say 
that to stand by and watch the terrible thing that was happening in 
Spain and the equally terrible things that were happening in other 
countries, made one wonder about the whole world. Again I think 
I should cut this short. I don't want to moralize. 

I had belonged to several organizations, such as the Musicians Com- 
mittee to Aid Spanish Democracy, and another medical committee 
which I think gave concerts in order to raise money — it was called 
the North American Committee or something — to raise money to send 
ambulances and medical things to Spain. 

In such groups as this there are always some Communists and 
these Communists being aware of one's liberal sympathies and feel- 
ings are not slow to exploit any opportunity they can find. I think 
1 was asked several times if I would join the party, but I did not 
wish to. 

Finally things got worse and worse and I said to myself that the 
individuality and the integrity that I thought I was protecting was 
possibly just being unwilling to work with other people on other 
terms. It was a time, as I say, of heartbreak and despair, because 
all of these well-intentioned committees did no good. Perhaps they 

81595 — 51— pt. 5 4 



1684 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

saved lives and ameliorated pain, but they didn't stop any "wars. 
Nobody seemed to be providing any leadership of the kind which 
might be able to stop wars. 

Somewhere around that time somebody asked me if I would join, 
and failing the actual memory of exactly what happened, I say that 
that is when I finally joined. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do I understand from your statement that you 
are unable to recall the individual who actually recruited you into 
the party? 

Mr. Raksin. I think I recall the individual who recruited me now. 

Mr. Tavenner. You think you do? 

Mr. Raksin. I think I do ; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would be glad for you to tell the committee. 

Mr. Raksin. His name was Mischa Altman, A-1-t-m-a-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. After your admission to the Communist Party were 
you assigned to any particular group or cell? 

Mr. Raksin. I was assigned to a class which was a group of people, 
I presume, who were getting their first information about the way 
the Communist Party was supposed to work, and who were taught 
hf a teacher and who met, I think, once a week. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did those meetings take place ? 

Mr. Raksin. They took place in a small house which was west of 
La Brea and somewhere between Hollywood Boulevard and Sunset 
Boulevard. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the meetings always take place at the same 
address? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, the meetings of this class did, I think. 

Mr. Tavenner. After attending these classes did you meet in group 
meetings with members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, this class was made into a group after a time. 
I don't know. I think some people may have drifted in and somebody 
left to go into another group. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many composed this group to which you 
refer ? 

Mr. Raksin. I don't know. I think about five or six. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that the number in the beginning? 

Mr. Raksin. I think that was the number just about throughout. 
Somebody, as I say, left the group and when it became no longer a 
class, and actually a group, somebody went into another unit in which 
I later encountered that same person. 

Mr. Tavenner. After this group developed into the cell of the 
Communist Party to which you have referred, did other persons unite 
with it and become members of it? 

Mr. Raksin. To the best of my recollection nobody actually united 
with this group and remained there. I remember that somebody 
might come in, but I am not sure whether it was a guest or just some- 
body coining in to see how things were going. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the Communist Party lecturer who in- 
structed your group ? 

Mr. Raksin. This was a Dr. Lee, and I presume he is the man who 
appeared here yesterday. He was a small man, he was a doctor, he 
had a moustache, he was slight, had a balding head and he was a 
very quiet man who just said what he had to say. 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1685 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of a witness who appeared yesterday. 
Did you see the witness to whom you are referring? 

Mr. Raksin. I did not. Maybe he didn't appear yesterday. His 
name is Or. Lee Bigelman. 

Mr. Tavenner. I didn't understand the last name. 

Mr. Raksin. Bigelman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the spelling of the name? 

Mr. Raksin. I am not sure. I don't really know. All I know is 
that I knew him as Dr. Lee, and I subsequently found that it was 
indeed Bigelman. 

Mr. Wood. They are having a little difficulty hearing you. Would 
you mind speaking a little louder, please ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am having a little difficulty hearing you. 

You referred to the individual by his first name ? 

Mr. Raksin. Yes. I said that he was known then to me as Dr. Lee. 
Everyone called him Dr. Lee. In fact, nobody called anybody by any 
last, names. But later he became known to me and I gather that he 
was the same man who was known as Dr. Lee Bigelman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether his first name was Lee or 
Leo? 

Mr. Raksin. That I don't know, sir. I heard that a man had been 
called Dr. Leo Bigelman, who was here the other day, but since I do 
not wish to testify about anything that I cannot really say I know, 
I will say that we called him Dr. Lee. And, as I say, I presume this is 
the same man. 

Mr. Tavenner. In reading of the daily press did you see the picture 
of the person who appeared yesterday by the name of Dr. Leo Bigel- 
man ? 

Mr. Raksin. I did not. 

Mr. Tavenner. We will try to procure it and see if you can make 
a more positive identification, because I understand that there is 
more than one Dr. Bigelman in the city. 

Mr. Raksin. Yes ; I know that. Well, I can say this, that this is 
not the man who is an eye specialist because I visited this man once 
in about 1937 or so and he gave me eyeglasses. And this is certainly 
not the same man at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the first name of the Dr. Bigelman 
who furnished you the eyeglasses? 

Mr. Raksin. I don't, but I always thought it was the same man. 
I always thought that his name was Dr. Leo Bigelman, or something. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee the names of those 
who were associated with you in this group of which you were a 
member ? 

Mr. Raksin. There was a girl named Billie, there was an old 

lady 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. Do you know the last name? 
Mr. Raksin. Xo; I do not. As I have said before, these people 
were known probably for reasons of not wanting anybody to know 
who they really were, as first names only. Unless you knew someone 
outside a group you did not know the second name. 
Mr. Tavenner. Very well. 

Mr. Raksin. This was a girl named Billie, there was an old lady 
whose name was Bessie, she was a small and red-haired, rather fragile 
woman. There was a tall, bald fellow named Harold, who didn't 



1686 COMMUNISM IN MOTION- PICTURE INDUSTRY 

stay very long, and there was a man named Bernard, who I was told 
had formerly been a Catholic priest. And these were the members 
of the group. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the course of your Communist Party mem- 
bership did you meet other persons who were known to you to be 
members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Raksin. I met some. I changed groups after having been in 
this one for a while. Exactly how long I don't know. But I asked 
to be moved into another group for the reason that I wanted to be 
somewhere where problems more akin, or questions more akin to my 
kind of thinking were discussed, and I felt that these would certainly 
be one of the groups where there were writers. I asked to be put 
into such a group and for a little while I was there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were the members of that group ? 

Mr. Eaksin. Richard Collins, Budd Schulberg, Waldo Salt, Paul 
Jarrico, and I can't think who else. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Collins was a director, I believe — no, Mr. 
Collins was a writer. 

Mr. Raksin. Yes, Richard Collins. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether there was a director in your 
group ? 

Mr. Raksin. In this group, as far as I know, there was not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you learn to know within the Communist Party 
any director of the studio 

Mr. Raksin. I did indeed. This was Frank Tuttle, who is a motion- 
picture director. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend Communist Party meetings in 
his home? 

Mr. Raksin. I did attend a couple of them at his home. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there other directors known to you to be 
members of the Communist Party, that is of your own personal 
knowledge ? 

Mr. Raksin. There was a man named Herbert Biberman who was 
there, and there were certainly no other directors that I knew there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Bernice Fraser? 

Mr. Raksin. Yes. Bernice Fraser was an old woman who was in 
ill health and she was in a group to which I was subsequently trans- 
ferred, but to which I really did not go, inasmuch as when I went 
to this group I said that I didn't want to be a part of its deliberations, 
that I would help in any larger group work that was involved, and 
do anything I could, but that I did not wish to sit in any of those little 
deliberations where tiny points are discussed endlessly and practically 
forever. She was a member of that group. ■ 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with any of the func- 
tionaries of the Communist Party whose names you can now recall ( 

Mr. Raksin. There is one who I believe to have been a Communist 
Party functionary, and another I have heard named as a Communist 
Party functionary, who was certainly a teacher. The Communist 
Party functionary I recall was a woman named Madelaine Ruthven. 
who has been previously identified here. The o1 her was John Howard 
Lawson, who used to come and lecture occasionally. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the extent of your acquaintanceship 
with Madelaine Ruthven? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1687 

Mr. Raksin. I went several times to her house when I was re- 
quested to do so after something I said in the course of some meeting 
or other had been taken exception to by someone. In other words, 
I said something of which, apparently, they did not approve, and 1 
was summoned, and she spoke to me about this. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, you had deviated from the acccepted 
policy in your thinking? 

Mr. Raksin. Apparently so. 

Mr. Tavenner. At least, in the expression of your thoughts? 

Mr. Raksin. Quite so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, as a result of your having deviated from the 
accepted line of thinking at the time, you were reported to the leaders 
of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, apparently somebody told Miss Ruthven that 
I had taken some position which was considered. to be wrong by them 
or to be at variance with their point of view. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall what that related to? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, there were two or three. One was — I don't 
know the chronological order, but one was when I became very in- 
censed over the disciplining of certain composers in the Soviet Union, 
men like Shostakovich and Prokofieff for whom I had great admira- 
tion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell those, please. 

Mr. Raksin. Shostakovich is S-h-o-s-t-a-k-o-v-i-c-h and Prokofieff 
is P-r-o-k-o-f-i-e-f-f. ' Another time 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment before leaving that. Tell the com- 
mittee more about what you objected to with regard to these com- 
posers. 

Mr. Raksin. Well, I felt that they were men of great talent and 
that if they chose to explore paths which led off the beaten track 
and if they chose to indulge in experiments as artists which were 
not immediately comprehensible to people who were not schooled 
in listening to music, that they should not be disciplined therefor, 
and that they should be permitted to do this, and that this was -the 
very breath and blood of art, and the position of the Communist 
Party at the time seems to have been that these men were servants 
of something and, at all costs, had to be made to toe the line. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, it was the view of the Communist 
Party that these individuals, these noted men, should use their art 
as a weapon ? 

Mr. Raksin. Oh, I wouldn't say as a weapon, but that they felt that 
they should be — that they should submerge any desire to do anything 
special or extremely personal which might not be understood by every- 
body, and that my own feeling was that this is not possible to a com- 
poser of any kind. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, who was it that exerted this form of censor- 
ship or thought control upon these artists ? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, the censure of these men was printed in Soviet 
newspapers and it was written by several men. I am not exactly sure 
who they were, nor did I read very much of the actual terms of the 
articles censuring them, but they were very strong, and I objected 
to them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do vou know what became of those artists after 
that? 



1688 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Raksin. Well, they continued to work. The one in whom I am 
most interested, if it is of any interest at all to anyone, is Prokofieff 
and to the best of my knowldege he is now a very ill man with a heart 
ailment, struggling to write as much music as he can before he is no 
longer able to. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you came to the defense of those artists who 
were endeavoring to apply their own genius to their profession? 

Mr. Raksin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. That did not meet with the approval of the Com- 
munist Party group to which you were assigned, so that you were 
disciplined for it ? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, I would scarcely call it exactly disciplined, sir, 
but I will say that probably what bothered them most of all was that 
I said at one point in the argument, which was a hot argument, that 
if the economic directors and commissars of the Soviet Union had as 
much ability at their jobs as Mr. Prokofieff had at his. there would be 
no economic problem in the Soviet Union. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the expression which brought down the ire 
of your associates upon you ? 

Mr. Raksin. I would say it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. So you were reported to the functionary, Made- 
laine Ruthven ? 

Mr. Raksin. I was, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, that was that instance. Will you give us other 
instances in which you were criticized or censored or reported for 
disciplinary action? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, liberals are forever having an inner argument 
about the ends and the means. Things like this were subjects of 
discussion. Another thing that apparently got me into trouble was 
that we began to discuss the ends and the means, and it was my feeling 
that sometimes, in pursuit of noble ends, ignoble means were neces- 
sary, but I said, "Whenever the means arrive at a point where they, 
themselves, are so terrible that they debase the man that does these 
deeds, it is time to examine not only the substance of the means but 
the end, itself," and I was told that this was bourgeois thinking, to 
which I subscribed. 

Mr. Tavenner. And as a result were you again reported to the 
functionary ? 

Mr. Raksin. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Madelaine Ruthven? 

Mr. Raksin. I was, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you censured for that? 

Mr. Raksin. Yes. Miss Ruthven told me that she thought I should 
be more prudent. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, were there other instances ? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, the only other one I can remember is that in 
a discussion of the novel, I held— it was not my original view but 
one which I respected — that in endeavoring to instill the conscious- 
ness of social events into works of art, those men who did this de- 
liberately at the expense of the work of art, itself, were making a great 
mistake and producing neither something which would affect people, 
nor something which would be a good work of art, and I submitted 
as an example the Comedy Humane of Balzac, which I seem to have 
known better at the time than I appear to now, principally because 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1689 

I was then reading it, and I said that the effort to be socially conscious 
had hampered certain works of literature. I am certainly no critic 
of literature, but this was my feeling, and again I was told that my 
judgment was certainly questionable. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, what action was taken as a result of your 
expression of your own judgment regarding the novel? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, nothing terrible happened. I just went to see 
Miss Ruthven and we talked about this. 

Mr. Tavenner. I mean, were you reported to Miss Ruthven? 

Mr. Raksin. Oh, apparently somebody went to Madelaine Ruthven 
and said, "This fellow has been at it again," and I am sorry to say 
that people like me quibble over points like this all the time, and I 
felt that I had to hold to this point, and I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were endeavoring to express your own inde- 
pendent thought and opinion? 

Mr. Raksin. Yes, sir; I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that was considered dangerous ? 

Mr. Raksin. It wasn't considered dangerous, sir, if I may say so. 
It was just thought and expressed to me that other people, who were 
perhaps less capable of making such "fine'' — and I put that word in 
quotes — differentiations would perhaps be thrown off the path of 
possible action in some cause or other. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you submit to this type of thought 
control ? 

Mr. Raksin. If I may say so, sir, I never submitted to it at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, how long did you endure it by remaining a 
member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, I began not to go very much in the late spring of 
1939, and in 1940 — no 1939, and into the summer, and into the fall. 
When there is something you don't want to do, you find ample ex- 
cuses, I suppose, not to do it, and I had a very valid one, which was 
that in my work it was frequently necessary for me to work all day 
and most of the night, and a 140-hour week was not unknown to me, 
and I have worked it many times, and I said, "I can't come," so I 
didn't, and sometimes I went to meetings and sometimes I didn't go, 
and at the end of — I don't know for sure whether I am answering the 
question you asked me, but if you are asking me how and when I got 
out, Mr. Tavenner — is that your question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. I am just wondering how long you were 
willing to stay in the Communist Party under the circumstances 
which you have described. 

Mr. Raksin. I was in the Communist Party altogether about a year 
and a half, of which in the beginning I went fairly regularly and at 
the end hardly at all. In fact, the last few months I went once, per- 
haps twice. The once I remember was when I went to say that I 
was not coming any more, and that was after a considerable period 
of not having gone any more, because I was in New York for about 
a month and a half — I don't know — and before that I had been work- 
ing on a day and night job for 5 or 6 weeks. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there any other statement you desire to make 
regarding the severance of your connection with the Communist 
Party ? I would like for you to state it if you have. 

Mr. Raksin. If I can say it briefly, I would like to say simply this: 
That I left the Communist Party after my sentiments had undergone a 



1690 COMMUNISM IN motion-picture industry 

considerable change. "When the Russo-German Pact was signed I was 
very much disturbed by it, and I felt it to be a very cynical and oppor- 
tunistic piece of business but, certainly, no more cynical or opportun- 
istic than was to be found in other places in the world, but when the 
fruits of this pact began to show themselves in the position that arms 
were not be be sent to England and that convoys were not to accom- 
pany — armed ships were not to accompany these ships, I said that this 
was our war and that if we were not in it now we were due to be in 
it shortly, and that arms should be sent to England; that ships should 
be sent, instructed to fire upon anyone trying to stop the ships, and 
it was naturally impossible for me to continue with this point of view, 
so I left. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Well, notwithstanding you left the Communist 
Party, as you described, the committee has information that after 
that time you were affiliated in one way or another with certain activ- 
ities which have been called to the attention of the committee from 
time to time and which the committee, from its investigation, con- 
sidered to have been instigated by members of the Communist 
Party, so I think I should ask you about that and ask you to tell us 
the circumstances under which you did affiliate in those movements, 
if you did. For instance, there appears in the Daily People's "World 
of November 6, 1948, a column headed "Notables condemn witch 
hunt." In the article, it is urged that contempt charges against 10 
political prisoners be dismissed and dismissal of the grand jury which 
subpenaed the 10 persons is also demanded. Now, among the names 
appearing as being persons signing this appeal or letter, appears your 
name. "We would like to know how your support of that movement 
was secured or how you entered into it. if you did. 

Mr. Raksin. I can't be sure that I did, but I will certainly not say 
that I deny it, since I don't know whether I did or not. All I can 
say is that if you will tell me the name of whatever committee it was — 
probably some committee which said, "Give us five bucks; we want 
to do something about" this or that, and I could have signed. I 
didn't cease to be a liberal, sir, when I left. In fact, I left because I 
was a liberal. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand, and it is no matter of criticism that 
a person may disagree with the work of this committee or that they 
criticize it, if that is what you are referring to, but we are interested 
to know to what extent that emanates from the Communist Party 
and to what extent it is a Communist Party line that has been im- 
pressed upon other organizations. I hand you the article in question 
and ask you to look at it, and it may refresh your recollection about 
it. 

Mr. Raksin. Yes. "Well, all I would say from this is that this 
would have impressed me at the time as an effort of the liberal party 
of this community. To whatever extent its origin is in the Commu- 
nist Party is no part of my personal knowledge, sir, and I signed it 
because, among other things, the make-up of this committee and its 
actions at that time were quite different from the committee which 
now exists. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has heard testimony regarding the 
Hollywood Quarterly which, according to my recollection, was a 
publication of the Hollywood "Writers' Mobilization. I have before 
me excerpts from the Hollywood Quarterly, volume 2, April 1947, 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1691 

which reflects that you appeared on the frontispiece of the magazine 
as being a member of the advisory committee on music. We would 
like to know just how your services were procured in connection with 
that enterprise. 

Mr. Raksin. First, sir, may I say that there were no services, but 
I would like to say that I am on that masthead because when this mag- 
azine was formed, those who had participated in the various panels 
of the Writers' Congress, and I, myself, was on the panel of mu- 



sicians 

Mr. Tavenner. That was back in — when, 1943 ? 

Mr. Raksin. I'm sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. October. 

Mr. Raksin. My memory for dates, sir, is not notable. 

Mr. Tavenner. In October 1943. 

Mr. Raksin. Yes; but the members of the various panels wound 
up on the advisory committee. I, myself, felt that this magazine 
was an attempt by the Writers' Mobilization and the University 
of California at Los Angeles to form a magazine of scholarly — a 
scholarly magazine, I would say, that would come from out here, 
and I was honored to be on that board with other people, but I 
must say that we never, to my knowledge, held a meeting of any kind 
at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, it was just a question of putting 
on that masthead the names of prominent people who never had func- 
tioned, never performed a service ? 

Mr. Raksin. There were some people who — there was a small com- 
mittee — I think they are set apart on the top, or something like that, 
of the masthead, and these were the people who edited the magazine. 
They were professors. 

Mr. Tavenner. But as far as these special committees were con- 
cerned, it was just a question of window dressing, wasn't it? 

Mr. Raksin. I suppose so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Has your connection with the Communist Party 
been terminated completely and definitely ? 

Mr. Raksin. It has, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I believe that is all. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Raksin, you have testified that you left the Com- 
munist Party because you were a liberal. Do I understand you to 
mean that the Communist Party is not a liberal party organization 

Mr. Raksin. Well, sir, I don't know. 

Mr. Walter. Or movement? 

Mr. Raksin. I don't think — it is a liberal movement, but it is not an 
organization of liberals. A liberal organization to my mind is one 
which encourages freedom and even dissidence of thought on the 
theory that it is better for such thought to be heard and refuted or 
justified than to lie festering somewhere. 

Mr. Walter. I want to say to you that with a 20-year record in the 
Congress of the United States as a liberal, these people that have 
affixed themselves to the Democratic Party are making it ever in- 
creasingly difficult for we liberals to accomplish what we have set 
out to accomplish. Who is this Madelaine Ruthven ? 

Mr. Raksin. Ruthven ? 

Mr. Walter. Ruthven ; yes. 



1692 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Raksin. She was just a woman who had a position of some sort, 
and she was a very mild woman, and I found her quite reasonable. 

Mr. Walter. What do you know about her background? 

Mr. Raksin. I know nothing about her except I heard she was a 
poetess. 

Mr. Walter. It was she who undertook to censor you because of the 
position that you took in matters that she probably knew nothing 
about 

Mr. Raksin. Well, sir 



Mr. Walter. Or very little ? 

Mr. Raksin. Willing to be honest, I can only say that, since I have 
no knowledge of what she really knew, I don't know whether she knew 
better than I or not, but having 

Mr. Walter. Did you ever have any voice in placing her in this 
position of censorship that she occupied? 

Mr. Raksin. No, sir ; I did not. 

Mr. Walter. Did any of the rank-and-file members of this group 
have anything to do with her selection ? 

Mr. Raksin. Insofar as I know, they certainly did not. 

Mr. Walter. In other words, she was just assigned to a job ? 

Mr. Raksin. Quite right. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I wish to supplement Congressman Walter's statement 
about these folks attaching themselves to the liberal movement, de- 
stroying it. I think that is literally true. When these Communists 
secretly infiltrate into liberal movements, they do it partially with 
the purpose of setting up a dictatorship instead of liberalism, but I 
want to ask you, sir, because of the number of years now you have been 
voluntarily out of the Communist Party, whether or not you have any 
suggestions to this committee and through this committee to the United 
States Congress as to any legislation which should be considered part 
of the text of the statute under which we operate, Public Law 601, 
which expressly charges this committee with recommending to Con- 
gress legislation for remedial legislation in the field of subversive 
un-American activities. Can you help us ? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, sir, I don't know that I can help. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, try to. 

Mr. Raksin. I know this, that if you are asking me whether I think 
laws should be passed outlawing the Communist Party I would say 
"No," and the reason I would say "No" is this: That I think that 
when it comes to an overt act of any kind, or something which is 
really dangerous to the welfare of the United States, there are plenty 
of things to cover this, such as Mr. Hoover. And my own feeling, as 
I have just said — I don't wish to appear to think of myself as a social 
scientist or something, but I would rather hear people talk and say 
all kinds of things out in the open and be in a position where by free 
expression of thought against any error, that error can be brought 
down to earth, than have that thought lie somewhere, as I said before, 
festering. 

Mr. Doyle. Possibly you heard this morning one witness, or per- 
haps it was early this afternoon, state that this committee was de- 
stroying peace or defiling peace; is that your appraisement? 

Mr. Raksin. I do not feel that that is so, sir. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1693 

Mr. Doyle. What is your judgment, as you have looked back these 
several years, of the functioning of this sort of a committee by Con- 
gress ? Is it of benefit or otherwise ? 

Mr. Raksin. Well, sir, if you will give me permission to limit what 
I think to this committee 

Mr. Doyle. That is what I am asking. 

Mr. Raksin. This which examines me today, I would say this, 
strange as it may sound coming from me, I think this committee has 
done one extremely beneficial thing, and that is that heretofore there 
has been a notion abroad in the United States that Hollywood is in- 
fested, it is often overrun — you may choose any verb — with Com- 
munists. 

I think that this investigation has proved and will continue to prove 
that at the most there were not more than a couple of hundred, and 
that only a very small few were zealots who have remained, and that 
the notion is for once and all dispelled that subversive doctrines were 
insinuated into films. I never heard of one being in a picture. 

Mr. Doyle. You would feel then that this committee, without know- 
ing what the ultimate answer would be, has been diligent in getting 
at the facts and the truth, whatever it was ? 

Mr. Raksin. I think that the truth has come out and that this truth 
is that the people in this film business, for which I am not an apologist, 
that there people are like practically everyone else, you might say, only 
more so, since they work at greater concentration, and that whatever 
they did was done out of human impulses, that there were never more 
than a few. I myself cannot conceive of anyone I met putting the 
interest of any other country before his own. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Raksin, I would like to say in connection with 
service on this committee that it is sometimes a very thankless task, 
sometimes a very difficult task, but that it is simply a task, it is a duty 
that is imposed upon the members of the committee by the Congress 
of the United States acting as the representatives of the American 
people. We do not seek out the assignment ; the assignment is given 
to us. It is as much a duty as any of the other many things that we 
are required to do as a part of our official duties. 

I don't think that that is commonly understood. 

I think you said during the course of your testimony that you joined 
the Communist Party because of a desire to see a restoration of decency 
and integrity throughout the world. I think that is one of the reasons 
you gave. 

Mr. Raksin. Well, it is something like that, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you, out of your experience, find that the Com- 
munist Party was a vehicle 'which was dedicated, or which gave any 
promise of bringing about the restoration that you, as an artist, were 
seeking? 

Mr. Raksin. I don't wish to rephrase your question, sir, but it was 
I as a human being who was seeking this thing. This was not justi- 
fied ; I did not find this in the Communist Party; and when in time 
I came to measure what I sought against what I found, I had to leave. 

Mr. Jackson. Have you, Mr. Raksin, discussed your appearance 
before this committee with any person other than your attorney? 

Mr. Raksin. I have discussed it; yes. 



1694 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Jackson. Have any attempts been made to dissuade you from 
making an appearance and testifying before the committee? 

Mr. Raksin. No one has endeavored to dissuade me at all. In fact 
I have discussed it with only a very few people, because when a thing 
like this happens and everything is so long ago in the past it's a diffi- 
cult thing to hold onto all by yourself. 

Mr. Jackson. Referring back to the case of the convicted 10, and 
the article to which counsel called your attention, do you feel in light 
of what has transpired with respect to the 10, with further respect 
to identifications that have been made with respect to most of them if 
not all of them as active members of the Communist Party, that they 
were in truth and in fact political prisoners of the United States of 
America ? 

Mr. Raksin. I wouldn't say they were political prisoners, sir. My 
own feeling would be that I am very sorry for any man who has all his 
life pursued an art or a craft and finds himself in prison. 

Mr. Jackson. I can understand your sympathy. But, of course, 
they were not in prison because of any pursuit of their arts or crafts, 
simply because they were found guilty of contempt of the institutions, 
the ideals, the traditions, and the laws of the United States. That 
is quite a different matter. I think as far as their arts and crafts 
were concerned they might be deserving of some sympathy; but, as 
far as their contempt is concerned, I certainly can find no reason or 
any grounds for sympathy. 

Mr. Raksin. Well, Mr. Jackson, I have made it clear, I think, 
that I am not in opposition to anything concerning — I think I put 
this badly — but anything concerning the welfare of the United States. 
But I have never made a differentiation of any kind. I don't want 
to sound pious about people who are in trouble. You see, I must say 
this, some of these people I knew, some I didn't. And I couldn't con- 
ceive of some of those fellows doing anything really to harm anybody. 

Mr. Jackson. I understand your feeling, and that feeling was 
held very close to the hearts of very many of the liberals — I quote 
that as you quoted the word a while ago — a very many of the liber- 
als, the Communists, the fellow travelers, the intellectual pinkos, 
in the case of Alger Hiss, whose only error was a little matter of 
taking top secrets from the United States Government and trans- 
ferring them to a foreign power. Now, he, too, was a great liberal. 
He was connected with the board of the Carnegie Foundation for 
World Peace. A man to whom this Nation had given every possible 
opportunity, and still there were those, and there probably still are 
those, who consider that he was just a poor, misguided boy who 
never had a chance. 

I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Raksin, you stated that you joined the Communist 
Party because you were a liberal. Mr. Edward Dmytryk, who was 
a member, or one of the Hollywood 10, testified before our com- 
mittee after serving his sentence and he made a statement that the 
same liberalism that took him into the party took him out of the 
party. Would you care to comment on that as it affected you? 

Mr. Raksin. Yes. The same liberalism which took me in took 
me out. 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1695 

Mr. Potter. As a liberal, as you have stated you are, that is a 
term that is very hard to define nowadays, you believe in freedom 
of discussion, freedom of utilizing your own ideas. And it is inter- 
esting to note that in the Communist Party, the very organ that many 
liberals fall into at times, that freedom of discussion, according to 
their own doctrine, is not permitted. Now, I wish to quote again — 

(At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing 
room.) 

Mr. Potter. From a photostat of a pamphlet that I have referred 
to many times through the course of this investigation. This is 
The Communist Party, a Manual on Organization, and testimony 
has been given before the committee that this has been used as more 
or less of a Communist Party bible in many areas. Let me quote 
you a paragraph from the section on party discussion and freedom 
to criticize. I wish to quote just this one paragraph, and I quote i 1 

We cannot imagine a discussion, for example, questioning the correctness 
of the leading role of the proletariat in the revolution, or the necessity for the 
proletarian dictatorship. We do not question the theory of the necessity for the 
forceful overthrow of capitalism. We do not question the correctness of the 
revolutionary theory of the class struggle laid down by Marx, Engels, Lenin, 
and Stalin. We do not question the counterrevolutionary nature of Trotskyism. 

Now. that is a part of their own manual where you cannot question 
so-called basic principles of the party. And I assume you probably 
weren't a very good member of the Communist Party because you did 
question certain principles and it took you out of the party and you 
were at least censured for them. 

Mr. Raksin. Well, I just don't think that most of the people I knew 
were good members, because they used to question them all the time. 
I questioned them ; most certainly I questioned them. 

Mr. Potter. From what experience you have had in the party, and 
knowing world conditions today, would you say that a person that is 
active in the Communist Party of today and subject to party disci- 
pline can at the same time be a lo}-al American '. 

(At this time Representative John S. Wood returned to the hearing 
room.) 

Mr. Raksin. Well, I would say that anybody who accepts that word 
for word cannot be a loyal American, but I just don't see anybody 
accepting anything like that word for word, sir, if I may. 

Mr. Potter. We have had testimony after testimony, and you well 
know how when the party line switches they all flip over. Some drop 
out; some can't take it. But others do that. And they will talk 
one way today, and when the party line switches they will talk another 
way tomorrow. Those people are subject to party discipline and 
accept party discipline. 

I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. This doesn't apply to the witness, but yesterday, when 
Martin Berkeley, the witness, concluded his testimony, I was absent, 
and at that time did not have an opportunity to compliment him on 
his vigorous cooperation with this committee. I want the record to 
now show that I do so at this time. I was in conference with the 
deputy attorney general of my State on the tidelands oil matter. 

1 See appendix printed in separate volume. 



1696 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

I also wish at this time to read into the record, if I ma}', a letter 
addressed to Mr. Berkeley from the Verdugo Hills Post, No. 288 r 
American Legion, Post Office Box 288, Montrose, Calif. 

Mr. Martin Berkeley, 

Care of House Un-American Activities Committee, 
Federal Building, Los Angeles, Calif. 
Dear Mr. Berkeley: Verdugo Hills Post, No. 288, of the American Legion,. 
unanimously voted to extend to you our deepest appreciation. 

Your appearance before the House Un-American Activities Committee, at sacri- 
fice to yourself, on behalf of your country will greatly assist the forces of free- 
dom throughout the world. 

We are asking other patriotic organizations to join us in this expression of" 
thanks. 

Sincerely, 

Eugene Jack Potter, Commander. 

I would like, Mr. Chairman, to have this filed with the records. 

Mr. Wood. It will be filed. 

Any further questions from counsel? 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Permit me to join the other members of the committee 
in expressing to you the committee's very deep appreciation for your 
cooperation and the information you have given the committee. I 
feel that it has been most helpful to us in our work and you have made 
a very valuable contribution to the American people and you have 
our sincere thanks. 

Mr. Raksin. Thank you. 

Mr. Wood. We have only 30 more minutes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe we can finish with this witness in that time. 

Mr. William Blowitz. 

Mr. Wood. Are you Mr. Blowitz ? 

Mr. Blowitz. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Wood. Raise your right hand and be sworn. Do you solemnly 
swear that the evidence you shall give this subcommittee shall be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Blowitz. Yes, I do. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM BLOWITZ 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Blowitz. I am not. 

Mr. Wood. Do you desire to be ? 

Mr. Blowitz. No, I do not. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will wait until the photographers finish their 
chores. 

What is your full name, sir, please? 

Mr. Blowitz. William Frank Blowitz. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Blowitz? 

Mr. Blowitz. Kansas City, Mo., July 1915. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I suggest that you talk as if you were talking 
to me and then the microphones will do the rest. Where do you now 
reside ? 

Mr. Blowitz. Van Nuys, Calif. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in California? 

Mr. Blowitz. 16 vears. 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1697 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation? 
Mr. Blowitz. I am a publicist. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe a little more the nature of your 
work ? 

Mr. Blowitz. I am a man who is hired by corporations, motion- 
picture companies, to publicize their products through newspapers, 
magazines, radio, or any other media available. 

Mr. Tavenner. How much of the period of time since you have 
been in California have you been employed in the motion-picture in- 
dustry ? 

Mr. Blowitz. In a cumulative sense, the bulk of the time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee briefly a statement 
of your educational background? 

Mr. Blowitz. I was educated in the public schools of Missouri, 
Illinois, and Pennsylvania; graduated from the University of Pitts- 
burgh in 1935. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Blowitz, at the close of the session yesterday, 
Mr. Martin Berkeley appeared in an executive session of the committee 
and in the course of his testimony there he named you as a former 
member of the Communist Party in this area. I would like you to 
tell the committee whether or not that testimony was correct. 

Mr. Blowitz. Yes, it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and over what period of time have you been 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Blowitz. I was a member of what was called the Communist 
Political Association from the spring of 1944 until that organization 
was dissolved, and then briefly I attended Communist Party meetings. 
To the best of my knowledge I have no card and had no card. The 
fact that I attended the meeting and paid whatever small dues that 
was involved was sufficient for me. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long a period of time did you remain in the 
party ? 

Mr. Blowitz. Approximately 15 months. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee the circumstances under 
which you became recruited as a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Blowitz. Well, briefly, I was invited to what was an open 
forum discussion at the home of John Lawson, who lived just a few 
blocks from me, and whom I had met. I went to this meeting and 
several others of the same nature, and then accepted participation 
and membership in the Communist Political Association, which was 
at that time, as you know, an open political party with open meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who invited you to become a member of the party ? 

Mr. Blowitz. John Lawson. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee names of others who 
were members of the party along with you ? 

Mr. Blowitz. Well, this is, as you know, extraordinarily difficult. 
I can name a few people who themselves told me that they were 
members, or some spoke to me as to indicate mutual membership. 
There was, as I said, a considerable floating population, some of whom 
I met and some of whom I did not, and some of whom I know and 
some of whom I knew, and some of whom I no longer know. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, I want you to confine yourself to evidence 
within your own knowledge. 



1698 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Blowitz. To the very best of my knowledge at that time Mr. and 
Mrs. Lawson were also members, Mr. and Mrs. Lester Cole, Alvah 
Bessie, a Morton Grant. There were a couple of others. As we go 
through it and you mention their names it is conceivable that I will 
recall them and I will if I can. 

Mr. Tayenner. Did you attend a Communist Party meeting in the 
home of Mortimer Offner? 

Mr. Blowitz. No, I don't know the name. I attended meetings in 
several homes that were completely strange to me. 

Mr. Tayenner. What were the circumstances under which you ter- 
minated your relationship with the party ? 

Mr. Blowitz. It was a matter of a difference of opinion on my part, 
certainly, during the course of the Hollywood strike in 1945. I at- 
tended a meeting at the home of a trade-union member, whose name 
I do not know. There were two meetings during this period, shortly 
after the strike started, and I attended two meetings at the home of 
a Hollywood labor leader. At the second meeting a woman by the 
name of Elizabeth Leech and a man named John Stapp, S-t-a-p-p, 
came out and in the course of the discussion I was in considerable 
disagreement as to the Hollywood strike of 1945, as the result of which 
I felt my interests were no longer allied with the party and I stopped. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know those persons, Elizabeth Leech and 
John Stapp, to be functionaries in the Communist Party? 

Mr. Blowitz. I had not — I do not know them other than as of 
that meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this a fraction meeting of the Communist 
Party which you were attending? 

Mr. Blowitz. That is conceivable. I attended, I would say, a total 
of no more than 12 or 14 meetings during my entire period. And 
it is conceivable it was a fraction meeting. I have just recently had 
that defined for me since the course of the hearings. 

Mr. Tavenner. What part did Elizabeth Leech and John Stapp, 
the functionaries of the Communist Party, play in this strike dispute 
or argument which you have mentioned, or conference? 

Mr. Blowitz. I don't recall the exact circumstances, but I felt 
that it was a correct strike and one that should be won by the ordinary 
methods of labor union, which you understand what the ordinary 
methods of labor unions are in winning a strike. I don't recall what 
point they took, I don't recall what point I took, except this was the 
second meeting that this had occurred and I felt that I wanted to go 
my own way. I do recall that the party was opposed to Herb Sorrell 
all through this period. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused 
from further attendance? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1699 

Mr. Wood. It is so ordered. 

Is that all? 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no other witnesses that we could complete 
in anywhere near the time that you mentioned. I suggest that we 
adjourn. 

If you will just wait one moment. 

I think I can call another witness. 

Mr. Wood. Who do you call? 

Mr. Tavenner. Miss Herta Uerkvitz. 

Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn. You do 
solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give this subcommittee 
shall be' the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Miss Uerkvitz. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HEETA UERKVITZ, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 
COUNSEL, ROBERT W. KENNY 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Miss Uerkvitz. I am. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel identify himself for the record. 

Mr. Kenny. Robert W. Kenny of Los Angeles. 

Mr. Wood. During the progress of your interrogation, Miss Uerk- 
vitz, you are permitted to confer with your counsel as often as you 
deem necessary and to seek such advice and information and sug- 
gestion from him as you think you need for your examination. 

(Representative Charles E. Potter left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please ? 

Miss Uerkvitz. Herta Uerkvitz. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you please spell it ? 

Miss Uerkvitz. H-e-r-t-a U-e-r-k-v-i-t-z. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you mind sitting a little bit closer to the 
table? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Thank you. Are you a native of California? 

Miss Uerkvitz. I am not. I was born in Wisconsin. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in California ? 

Miss Uerkvitz. Since 19 — in California ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Miss Uerkvitz. Since 1922. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession or occupation? 

Miss Uerkvitz. Architectural research. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged in that pro- 
fession ? 

Miss Uerkvitz. Since 1936, 1 believe, in the same studio. 

Mr. Tavenner. What special training did you have for that work, 
and in that connection state what your general education has been. 

Miss Uerkvitz. My general education was in the public schools of 
Everett, Wash., and a business college there, and a 2-year extension 
course in UCLA after I came down here. Now, I have no special 
training for the job, I worked into it by a set of happy circumstances. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged in that work? 

81595— 51— i>t. 5 5 



1700 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Miss Uerkvitz. As I said, I have been in the motion-picture indus- 
try steadily since 1922, and in this particular architectural field,, 
specifically in charge of a department since 1986. 

Mr. Tavexxer. That was at one of the studios in the moving- 
picture industry, I assume? 

Miss Uerkvitz. I have been at Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer since 1929. 
Previous to that I was in several other large studios. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Having been an employee in the moving-picture 
industry over the period of time you have indicated, you are in a 
position to have learned a great deal regarding the subject of the 
inquiry which this committee is interested in, namely the extent of 
Communist infiltration into the moving-picture industry in Holly- 
wood and the extent of it and the general purposes of it and the 
method which the Communist Party may have used to promote its 
projects. So I would like to ask you if you have knowledge regarding 
the activities of the Communist Party in the moving-picture industry, 
whether it be in your field, that of the screen writers, the directors, or 
any other field. 

Miss Uerkvitz. Mr. Tavenner, I will have to call upon my privilege 
under the first and fifth amendments and refuse to answer the ques- 
tion, because the organization which is in the question as being 

Mr. Tavexxer. There were several organizations mentioned. Are 
you referring to the Communist Party ? 

Miss Uerkvitz. I will still have to stand on my fifth amendment 
privilege. 

Mr. Wood. Miss Uerkvitz, please, as far as this committee is con- 
cerned, there is no compulsion. You don't have to invoke anything. 
It. is just a question of whether you do or not. 

Miss Uerkvitz. I will have to stand on that ground. 

Mr. Wood. You mean that you do stand on it, that you do claim 
the privilege of the fifth amendment? 

Miss Uerkvitz. I do, sir. 

Mr. Wood. All right. Well, you don't have to, you know, here. 

Miss Uerkvitz. I do, if I don't want to get myself in hot water. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I don't understand that remark. This committee 
is not engaged in the prosecution of anyone. It is simply an investi- 
gation of facts, and I would like to give you the opportunity again 
to tell us what you know about this subject, if you will. 

Miss Uerkvitz. Again, I will have to rely upon my privilege of the 
fifth amendment and decline to answer. 

Mr. Wood. Well, do you so rely on your privilege? 

Miss Uerkvitz. I certainly do rely. It is the only thing I have 
left to rely upon. 

Mr. Wood. Well, the statement that you have to do it is not literally 
true, because this committee doesn't put you under any compulsion. 
It is a question of what you do. 

Miss Uerkvitz. Well, the committee has put me under compulsion 
to this extent: The naming of so many dozens and dozens and dozens 
of organizations as subversive — I noticed that in the United States 
circuit court of appeals a couple of weeks ago they describe the At- 
torney General's list of subversive organizations as based purely upon 
hearsay. 

Mr. Wood. I am afraid 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1701 

Miss Uerkvitz. Now, this may be true and it may not be true, but 
I don't want to jeopardize myself, and that is why I use the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Wood. I am afraid you don't understand my situation about 
it. What I am trying to say to you is that when you say you have 
to rely on the fifth amendment, it is not an answer to the question 
at all. 

Miss Uerkvitz. Well, I'm sorry, sir. I will have to consider it so 
for me. 

Mr. Wood. Well, do you? 

Miss Uerkvitz. I do decline; yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Very well, and for the reason that you have stated, under 
the protection of the fifth amendment? 

Miss Uerkvitz. Protection against possible incrimination. 

Mr. Wood. It will simplify the procedure with us and with yourself 
if, instead of saying you have to say, that you do do it. if you do. 

Miss Uerkvitz. I see. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you in the hearing room yesterday during 
the period that Mr. Martin Berkeley was testifying '. 

Miss Uerkvitz. I was here in the afternoon. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now t , while you were here did Mr. Martin Berkeley 
describe you as a former member of the Communist Party? 

Miss Uerkvitz. He didn't mention me at all while I was in the 
room. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, during the course of his testimony, probably 
while you were absent, he did state that he knew you to be a member 
of the Communist Party. I would like to ask you whether or not that 
was a truthful statement or whether it was false. 

Miss Uerkvitz. Well, that reminds me of a tale on witch hunts 
where a 5-year-old child was condemned because a man testified that 
he saw devils running out of her mouth. However. I will stand upon 
my right of the fifth amendment and refuse to — decline to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Miss Uerkvitz. I will again have to rely upon the fifth amendment. 

Mr. AVood. Do you so rely ? 

Miss Uerkvitz. I do so rely upon it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter, do you have any questions ? 

Mr. Walter. Yes. You have stated that "I will get in hot water 
unless I rely on the fifth amendment." What did you mean by that? 

Miss Uerkvitz. I explained myself earlier, but I don't want to dis- 
cuss it further, if I may so not discuss it. 

Mr. Walter. You just decline to answer that question, is that it? 

Miss Uerkvitz. I just do not care to discuss it further. 

Mr. Walter. I can understand that, of course. 

Miss Uerkvitz. I am sorry. 

Mr. Walter. That is all right. Now, you have answered the ques- 
tion. Do you know that under the law nothing coming from the 
lips of any witness in this hearing can be used in any case against 
them ? Do you know that ? 

Do you know it, Mr. Kenny ? 

Mr. Kenny. Yes: and I disagree heartily with vou. 

Mr. Walter. You do ? 



1702 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Kenny. The law is exactly the contrary to that which you 
stated. 

Mr. Walter. Then I shan't pursue it further, but I will mail you 
the statute so that you are aware of the situation. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Counsel, any further questions? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused from 
further attendance ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. So ordered. 

Mr. Kenny. Mr. Chairman, I do have a client here under subpena 
who is a dentist, and if he is not to be heard today he will run into 
considerable problems because he is a one-man office and has many 
appointments for tomorrow. Is there any opportunity that this doc- 
tor can be heard today ? 

Mr. Tavenner. What is his name? 

Mr. Kenny. Dr. Schoen, or he could come at some later time. 

Mr. Wood. We only have 5 minutes until we have to adjourn. 

Mr. Kenny. Yes ; I realize that. 

Mr. Walter. It is Mr. Kenny's client. It will be very short. 

Mr. Tavenner. We will endeavor to help you out by fixing a time 
during tomorrow that will be convenient to him. 

Mr. Kenny. I will try to work out 

Mr. Tavenner. Within reason. 

Mr. Kenny. A time certain when he could appear ; yes. 

Mr. Wood. Until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning, the committee 
stands in recess. 

(Whereupon at the hour of 4: 35 p. m. an adjournment was taken 
in the above hearing until the hour of 10 a. m. of the following day, 
September 21, 1951.) 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF HOLLYWOOD MOTION 
PICTURE INDUSTRY— PART 5 



FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 21, 1951 

United States House of [Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

on Un-American Activities, 

Los Angeles, Calif. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The Subcommittee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to 
adjournment, at 10: 15 a. m., in room 518 Federal Building, Los An- 
geles, Calif., Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man) Francis E. Walter, Clyde Doyle, Donald L. Jackson, and 
Charles E. Potter. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr.. counsel; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel ; Louis J. Russell, senior investigator; 
William A. Wheeler, investigator, and John W. Carrington, clerk. 

Mr. Wood. Let us have order, please. 

Let the record show, please, that the subcommittee is in session and 
that all members thereof are present. 

Are you ready to proceed, Sir. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Who do you call first ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The first witness this morning is Dr. Max Howard 
Schoen. 

Mr. Wood. Are you Mr. Schoen ? 

Mr. Schoen. I am Dr. Schoen. 

Mr. Wood. Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn. Y"ou 
do solemnly swear that the evidence you do give this subcommittee 
shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Dr. Schoen. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MAX HOWARD SCHOEN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, BEN MARGOLIS 

Mr. Wood. Dr. Schoen, are you represented by counsel ? 

Dr. Schoen. I am. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat, please, sir. Will counsel identify himself 
for the record. 

Mr. Margolis. Ben Margolis, of Los Angeles. 

Mr. Wood. Dr. Schoen, under the established rules of this committee 
you are at liberty to confer with your counsel at any time you desire 

1703 



1704 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

during the progress of the interrogation and obtain from him such 
advice, information, or suggestion as you think would be helpful to 
you. Of course, your counsel has been before this committee on fre- 
quent occasions and is familiar with the privileges that he is entitled 
to. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe we are ready to begin. You are Dr. Max 
Howard Schoen ? 

Dr. Schoen. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name, please, sir. 

Dr. Schoen. S-c-h-o-e-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where and when were you born, Dr. Schoen ? 

Dr. Schoen. I was born in New York City, February 4, 1922. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a resident of Los Angeles ? 

Dr. Schoen. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Los Angeles ? 

Dr. Schoen. I believe since approximately the summer of 1938. 

Air. Tavenner. What is your prof ession ? 

Dr. Schoen. I am a dentist. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee, briefly, your gen- 
eral educational background. 

Dr. Schoen. I received my public-school education in New York 
City, then graduated from DeWitt Clinton High School, attended the 
College of the City of New York for 1 year, after which my family 
moved out to the west coast. I continued my predental education at 
UCLA and then got my B. S. and D. D. S. degrees at the University of 
Southern California in 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. Since that time you have been engaged in the prac- 
tice of your profession in Los Angeles ? 

Dr. Schoen. Well, not exactly. Immediately, or within a very short 
period after graduation, since I was an officer in the Reserve, I went 
on active duty and practiced dentistry for approximately 3 years in 
the Army, of which approximately 20 months were spent overseas in 
the Pacific theater. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you still hold a Reserve commission ? 

Dr. Schoen. I am not sure what the technicality of this is. I have 
not signed up for the Organized Reserves, but I believe I am con- 
sidered to be on inactive status. I am not sure of what the situation 
is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Schoen, I think by this time all those who have 
been subpenaed before this committee understand the purpose of this 
investigation. 

Dr. Schoen. I believe so. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like for you to tell the committee what you 
know regarding Communist Party activities and Communist Party 
infiltration into the moving picture industry, if you have any knowl- 
edge of same. 

Dr. Schoen. This question, Mr. Tavenner, contains within it the 
name of an organization which has been considered subversive, par- 
ticularly in front of this committee. Therefore, I decline to answer 
this question on the basis of the fifth amendment which was, as I 
understand it, originally placed in the Constitution of the United 
States in the Bill of Rights in order to protect the people from perse- 
cution and prosecution on the basis of their political and religious 
beliefs and associations. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1705 

Mr. Taykxxer. The organization to which you referred, I believe, 
was the Communist Part} \ 

Dr. Schoen. I believe you mentioned that organization in the 
question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, is that the organization to which you referred? 

Dr. Schoen. Well, you referred to it and then I also did in answer- 
ing the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you a question relating to an organiza- 
tion which has been known as a Communist front or, at least, it has 
been said that it has, the Worker's School. The committee has infor- 
mation that a class of the Worker's School was held on June the 18th 
1913, at the Unitarian Church here in the city of Los Angeles, and at 
that lecture, Communist Party literature w T as brought there to the 
church by John Howard Lawson and was distributed by you. Now, 
I am not raising any question at all about the propriety of your attend- 
ing such a lecture, but I am anxious to know the circumstances under 
which Communist Party literature was delivered there and distrib- 
uted, if you know. 

Dr. Schoen. This is a similar question. Therefore, I also decline 
to answer it on the basis of the fifth amendment which, incidentally, 
I consider to be closely related to the first amendment, which pro- 
tects the right of free speech. The right of free speech doesn't mean 
much without also the right to remain silent in regard to one's politi- 
cal beliefs and associations. 

Mr. Tavexxer. The committee understands that a similar meeting 
was held on July 4, 1943, at the same church and that you engaged 
again in the distribution of Communist Party literature. Is that true 
or not ? 

Dr. Schoen. That is substantially the same question; therefore, 
although I regret having to repeat myself, the same answer. 

Mr. Tavexxer. According to the People's World of May 13, 1943, a 
meeting was to be held on the 15th of May at the Danish Auditorium 
in Los Angeles, publicizing I Am An American Day. According to 
information in the possession of the committee, the meeting was ad- 
dressed by Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, a national committee member of 
the Communist Party, and" by Steve Nelson, who, at the time, was 
the Communist Party organizer for Alameda County, Calif. Did 
you attend that meeting, and, if so, did those two persons address 
that meeting? 

Dr. Schoen. Mr. Tavenner, this, I believe, is still more or less the 
same question and, as I hope I have indicated by now, my answer is 
also the same. This, I believe, represents questions again relating to 
beliefs and associations, and on the basis of the fifth amendment I 
refuse to answer on that basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you familiar with an organization known as 
the Dewey Davis Club of the Communist Party which, we understand, 
was a group within the Communist Party to which doctors and 
dentists were invited to join? 

Dr. Schoen. We are still being repetitious. Same question ; same 
answer. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you at any time, particularly and especially 
in 1946, a member of the Dewey Davis Club of the Hollywood section 
of the Los Angeles County Communist Party ? 



1706 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Dr. Schoen. Again, same question, same answer. I regret to be 
wasting the time of everyone here, but, Mr. Tavenner, you are asking 
more or less the same questions. 

Mr. Wood. Just a moment. We will be the judge about wasting 
time, sir, and we desire not to waste any. You will be very helpful 
to us by answering the questions but since you decline to do so the 
only thing we can do is to ask them. 

Mr. Tavenner. The People's Daily World of April 27, 1951, devotes 
page 11 to May Day greetings. Among those listed as having sent 
May Day greetings appears your name. Will you examine the docu- 
ment and state whether or not your name appears there ? 

Dr. Schoen. Mr. Tavenner, the People's World has been deemed 
subversive, therefore I decline to answer this question on the basis of 
the fifth amendment. Although it seems unfortunate that newspapers 
find their way onto lists. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wouldn't that depend entirely upon the actual 
conduct of the newspaper ? Is there such -a thing as immunity for 
newspapers which extends beyond that of the rights of other people 
and other organizations ? 

Dr. Schoen (after conferring with counsel). I believe that the 
Constitution guarantees freedom of the press, regardless of whether 
any group or individuals agree or disagree with the material that 
is contained. Freedom of the press is guaranteed under the first 
article of the Bill of Rights. 

Mr. Wood. Now, having delivered yourself as to the Bill of Rights, 
will you answer the question ? 

Dr. Schoen. (after conferring with counsel). I have answered. 
I decline to answer the question on the basis of the fifth amendment. 
And I, also, was asked for my opinion, which I gave. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you an issue of the Independent, a news- 
paper publication of Long Beach, Calif., which carries a full-page 
advertisement in the November 22, 1948, issue. This advertisement 
was paid for by the Long Beach Friends of the Civil Rights Congress 
and is in form and context a protest against contempt proceedings 
involving witnesses who appeared before a grand jury in Los Angeles. 
Your name appears as a signer, and I would like to ask you to state to 
the committee the circumstances under which your signature was 
obtained and who obtained it. 

Dr. Schoen. (after conferring with counsel). Does this advertise- 
ment refer to the case here in Los Angeles where subsequently the 
decisions were reversed by the Ninth Circuit Court? I believe I 
have some recollection of this. Is this what this ad refers to ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is correct. 

Dr. Schoen. Well, the decision was reversed by the Ninth Circuit 
Court and the people were freed. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is true. 

Dr. Schoen. This advertisement has within it the name of an organ- 
ization which has been deemed subversive, therefore I decline to 
answer the question on the basis of the fifth amendment of the Con- 
stitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of the organization referred to ? 

Dr. Schoen (after conferring with counsel). You, and also the 
advertisement, or the photostatic copy which I just looked at, has 
in the corner of it the name "Civil Rights Congress." 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1707 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you, in April 1951, chairman of a meeting 
of the Hollywood West Side Chapter of the Civil Rights Congress? 

Dr. Schoen. This question also refers to the same organization, 
therefore I decline to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Schoen, the committee is in possession of infor- 
mation indicating that you attended a meeting of the Medical Council 
of the Southern California Chapter of the National Council of the 
Arts, Sciences, and Professions on the evening of August 23,. 1951, 
and at that time it was decided to circularize the doctors and the 
dentists of this community with a letter relating to these hearings, 
and that during the course of the discussion of the matter a disagree- 
ment arose between you. Dr. Murray Abowitz, and Dr. Leo Bigelman, 
as to whether or not you three doctors should sign that letter. You 
disagreed with the other two and Mrs. Abowitz charged you with 
deviating from the policj 7 ; is that correct? 

Dr. Schoen. This question also refers to an organization which 
has been deemed subversive, therefore I refuse to answer on the basis 
of the fifth amendment. I wish to add, however, that you appear to 
be referring to activity in relation to public opinion, and that some of 
these alleged subversive activities, subversive lists, contain many, 
many organizations and have not been arrived at, as I understand it, 
through due process but have just been set up on the basis of one 
group or another, or someone's say so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give this committee the benefit of any 
information that you have which you think it should consider on the 
question of whether or not the organization known as the Southern 
California Chapter of the National Council of the Arts, Sciences, and 
Professions has been infiltrated by the Communist Party, or is in any 
sense under the influence or the control of the Communist Party? 

Dr. Schoen (after conferring with counsel). You have again 
referred to an organization which has been deemed subversive. There- 
fore, I refuse to answer the question on the basis of the fifth amend- 
ment. However, I think that no lists should be compiled about organ- 
izations to which people belong to in a manner in which they have 
been done. This is my opinion — which has been done by this 
committee. 

Mr. Wood. Well, counsel, sir, is giving you the highest possible 
opportunity now in this forum to give us any information you have on 
the subject as to whether or not this organization has been correctly 
labeled as a subversive organization. You are being given the oppor- 
tunity now to give us any information you have on that subject in 
this forum. Do you still decline to do it? 

Dr. Schoen. I decline to answer the question on the basis of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Wood. All right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Dr. Schoen. This question is similar to one asked before. There- 
fore, I decline to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Dr. Schoen. I decline to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 



1708 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr, Wood. I yield to you, Mr. Walter. Are there any questions 
you may desire to ask ? 

Mr. Walter. Earlier in your testimony, in speaking of the Com- 
munist Party, you said that it was an organization considered sub- 
versive by this committee. I assure you that this committee isn't the 
only group' that considers the Communist Party subversive. I think 
that even Communists, and even those who refuse to answer the ques- 
tion as to whether or not they are Communists, realize that the Com- 
munist Party in the Uninted States and the Communists in the United 
States are part and parcel of the conspiracy to gain control of the 
entire world and included in that group is yourself and your lawyer. 

Mr. Margolis. Are you attacking me, Mr. Walter ? 

Mr. Walter. I am not attacking 

Mr. Margolis. Will you give us an opportunity to make speeches, 
the same as you have, sir? 

Mr. Walter. You have an opportunity, sir, at any time. 

Mr. Margolis. You take the liberty of using this forum to make 
speeches, sir, and I would like to have the liberty of doing the same 
thing. 

Mr. Wood. One at a time. 

Mr. Walter. You will be given any opportunity you seek to deny 
the charges that have been made that you, too, are a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Margolis. I don't consider it an opportunity to appear before 
this committee. I consider it a denial of constitutional rights to be 
forced to appear before this committee. 

Dr. Schoen. And Mr. Walter 

Mr. Walter. Just a minute. I am going to ask you a question, 
young man. You have stated that in your opinion the first amend- 
ment gives to you the right to remain silent as to one's political beliefs. 
1 think that is true, but why do you remain silent if you are not afraid 
to let us know what your associations are ? 

Dr. Schoen. Mr. Walter, the right to speak or remain silent and 
the time at which one or the other should be done, I think, is some- 
thing which I believe should be left to the individual. I do not con- 
sider this hearing to be the proper place to exercise the right to speak. 
I believe that this hearing is more or less of a public trial and 
that I 

Mr. Walter. Nobody is on trial for anything. We are seeking 
information. 

Dr. Schoen. I have been reading the newspapers the past few days, 
following these proceedings, naturally — they certainly concern me, 
since I was subpenaed — and, believe me, it appears as though the wit- 
nesses who have sat here in this chair have been tried before the 
public, and I don't think that the technicality is as important as the 
actual fact. I know just recently of a case in Florida where, I believe, 
two Negroes — where the press inflamed the community against them 
to such an extent that the appellate court reversed a conviction for a 
crime because the press incited the people of the community and the 
jury to 

Mr. Walter. You never miss an opportunity to appeal to minori- 
ties, do you ? 

Dr. Schoen. I believe that the minority groups in this country have 
the right 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1709 

Mr. Walter. Never mind that. We have been trying for many 
years to correct a lot of things, and it is becoming increasingly diffi- 
cult because of your ilk. I want- 



Dr. Schoen. I hate to be put in the position of 

Mr. Walter. All right. Just a minute. I want to ask you a ques- 
tion, and I might suggest that you stick to your class. After all, you 
are not a lawyer. Don't advise us on the Constitution. If we want 
advice about dentistry we will come to you. 

Dr. Schoen. I am a citizen of the United States and, as such, have 
a right to discuss such things with Congressmen, I believe. 

Mr. Walter. All right. You have mentioned organizations that 
have been classified as subversive, without being given an opportunity 
to be heard. I would like to inform you that this committee has, on 
every occasion when organizations have come forward and demon- 
strated that a mistake has been made, corrected that mistake, and the 
information that we have concerning the organization that you are 
now afraid to discuss comes to us as a result of very thorough investi- 
gation made by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Now, if the 
Communist Party is not subversive I suggest that somehow or other 
you communicate with the people in that organization, and I think you 
can reach them, and we will be very happy to give them the same op- 
portunity we have given every other organization that feels that it 
hasn't been dealt with fairly. That is all, Mr. Wood. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle, any questions you desire to ask the witness ? 

Dr. Schoen. First, I am not — I do not use my right under the fifth 
amendment because I am afraid, except afraid of an atmosphere of 
persecution and hysteria which might lead to prosecution, and the 
atmosphere 

Mr. Walter. Would you answer these same questions in executive 
session ? Would you answer under oath these same questions if, at 
the conclusion of the hearing this morning, we put everybody out of 
the room and talked to you privately without any atmosphere of any 
sort ? 

Dr. Schoen. I do not feel that this would appreciably change the 
atmosphere. 

Mr. Walter. It wouldn't change your testimony; of that I am 
convinced. 

Mr. Wood. Any questions, Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes, please. 

Doctor, I think I understood your answer to our distinguished legal 
counsel when he asked you if you held a Reserve commission now in 
the American military forces and you said, "I am not sure." Is that 
correct ? 

Dr. Schoen. I know that I have not signed up for the Active Re- 
serves, but I am not sure of the ins and outs of the law concerning 
whether I am or am not still on inactive status. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you made any effort to find out in the last 2 years? 

Dr. Schoen. I was told when I left, or I was given the impression, 
that this is something I do not have to worry about or concern myself 
with, so I have not done so. 

Mr. Doyle. You are within the age bracket which might be called, 
though, are you not, under the present emergency with Soviet com- 
munism in Korea ? 



1710 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Dr. Schoen. In terms of the part of the question as to age bracket, 
I believe that I am young enough to be called ; yes. 

Mr. Doyle. But "you are not worrying about it. Have you traveled 
abroad in the last 5 or 6 or 7 years ? 

Dr. Schoen. Well, I have been 

Mr. Doyle. I mean, outside of any military duty. 

Dr. Schoen. I was going to try to figure whether my military duty 
occurred within that time, but other than that, I believe on vacations 
or week ends — I believe on some week ends I went to Mexico across 
the border, and, also, I took one trip to Canada, just a trip, and I 
was in Canada for 1 day. 

Mr. Doyle. At any time since you graduated from USC, from which 
I also graduated, and I am proud of it, have you traveled to Europe? 

Dr. Schoen. I have not. 

Mr. Doyle. Other than military 

Dr. Schoen. My military service was in the Pacific so I have never 
been to Europe. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you traveled to Russia? 

Dr. Schoen. No. 

Mr. Doyle. Or any of the Soviet Union countries ? 

Dr. Schoen. No. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you familiar with the statute under which this 
committee is operating at all, do you know what our assignment is 
by the United States Congress? 

Dr. Schoen. Well, in general terms, I believe it was established to 
investigate subversive activities in the United States. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you think that is a worthy objective? 

Dr. Schoen. This, I think, depends on the approach one has. This 
is my opinion. 

Mr. Doyle. This committee is assigned to investigate subversive 
people and propaganda. How would you indicate or recommend 
that we investigate it ? Give us your recommendation, Doctor. We 
have been informed that you are a member of the Communist Party. 
We believe you are today, to be frank with you. You have exercised 
your right under the Constitution, the first and fifth amendments, to 
refuse to tell us whether or not you are. That's all right. We want 
you to stand on your constitutional rights at all times. 

Dr. Schoen. Thank you. 

Mr. Doyle. That is important, and it is the American way of life, 
contrary to the rights of Soviet Russia and other countries which are 
backed by the American Communists. 

But how would you recommend that this committee of the United 
States Congress investigate this? It is your Congress, Doctor, we 
represent your Congress, whether you claim us or not. We are under 
an express assignment and the text says we shall investigate subversive 
propaganda. How would you have us investigate it? We are in- 
vestigating the Communist Party, for instance, of which we believe 
you are a member. How shall we go at it ? 

Dr. Schoen. Well, you ask me what recommendations I might have 
as to how this committee should investigate subversive activity and 
propaganda, and offhand I could suggest investigating, for instance, 
the recent riots which took place in Cicero, 111., where a young Negro 
couple was by force and violence prohibited, or they were not able to 
occupy an apartment which they had rented. There was force and 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1711 

violence which occurred to prevent them from doing so. This, I 
believe to be extreme subversion of the Constitution of the United 
States and the democratic way of life. I might make this recommen- 
dation 

Mr. Doyle. Is there any connection with that unfortunate riot and 
with subversive propaganda instigated by a foreign government, for 
instance, Soviet communism? 

Dr. Schoen. You asked me whether 

Mr. Doyle. That's right. 

Dr. Schoen. Whether I had any suggestions in regard to sub- 
versive activities. 

Mr. Doyle. That's right. 

Dr. Schoen. And I have made such a recommendation. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you any other recommendation ? 

Dr. Schoen. Well, I might have many of them. I could for in- 
stance, recommend that I feel that the continued existence of the poll 
tax which prevents large sections of the American people, primarily 
Negro people and poor white people in the South, in many Southern 
States, from exercising their constitutional right to vote, and that this 
prevents free exercise of this right. This I feel to be subversion. I 
feel that the conduct of certain Congressmen and Senators in attempt- 
ing to block this by filibustering is in a sense subversion, because it 
doesn't permit the American people to express their feelings on it. 

Mr. Doyle. No doubt, Doctor, you will recognize that the Con- 
gressman who is asking you these questions is not in that group, 
nor at any time during the 5 years I have been in Congress. I have 
deliberately given you a chance to give recommendations to this 
committee, and I am glad to see that you are anxious to protect the 
rights of the minority, in other words, the Negroes and the Jewish 
people and the poor whites. But, of course, that is the Communist 
line, to appeal to that group, and we understand that. But now 
have you any suggestion about the Communist Party which has 
been declared as subversive by J. Edgar Hoover, for instance, or 
his organization? In other words, it has been declared subversive. 
Now, give us your thought on investigating the Communist Party, 
please. You have given us two recommendations. I am asking you 
to talk about the one now that I am suggesting. 

How shall we do that % 

Dr. Schoen. This question relates to an organization which has 
appeared on your list and is considered subversive by this committee ; 
therefore I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Doyle. You are not a very good sport, are you ? 

Dr. Schoen. I don't think this is a sporting situation, actually. 

Mr. Doyle. It certainly is not. I gave you two chances and you 
wouldn't even give me one to get any help from you. 

One thing more. 

(The witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Doyle. I anticipate a colleague of mine is going to ask you a 
question along the lines directed to you because you were a member 
of the military forces, and so I will not ask that question. What is 
there about the Communist Party, or about any of your affiliations 
with any group, Doctor, which makes you feel that you would be 
subject to prosecution in a criminal proceeding if you frankly helped 



1712 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

this committee by helping us to understand how the groups you are 
a member of, subversive groups like the Communist Party, function? 

Dr. Schoen. This question also relates to the same organization 
mentioned before 

Mr. Doyle. That's right. 

Dr. Schoen. Therefore I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Doyle. I am a much older man than you are, Doctor, and I just 
want to say to you that I pray to God that you get on your knees and 
see if you can't clean up some of your thinking and get out of this 
subversive outfit, and get over to the American line. 

I was in Alaska for 10 days and I heard the Moscow radio blasting 
the American people as being warmongers and charging that we stole 
Alaska from Catherine. 

I want to say to you again, why don't you get wise and get out of it 
and fight for the protection of the rights of all the people in the 
world instead of trying to direct your Government into Soviet com- 
munism ? 

That's all I have to say. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Dr. Schoen, would you take an oath to protect the 
United States against its enemies, foreign and domestic ? 

Dr. Schoen. Mr. Jackson, I was here yesterday and I have fol- 
lowed the hearings closely in the past few days 

Mr. Jackson. I am willing to stipulate that you have been here for 
a long time. I simply want to know would you take such an oath 
to protect the United States against its enemies, foreign and 
domestic ? 

Dr. Schoen. I feel, since this is a question of opinion, I don't be- 
lieve that this is a simple question directed to me here on the witness 
stand by this committee. I don't think this is an open forum. How- 
ever, I just wish to state that I think that this question, and what it 
might lead to, are questions which tend to inflame and to increase 
the war hysteria which is prevalent in this country today. 

Mr. Jackson. Are you telling the committee, Dr. Schoen, that it is 
inflammatory to state one's loyalty to one's own country ? 

Dr. Schoen. I think that I have demonstrated my loyalty to this 
country in my acts as a citizen sufficiently so that we don't have to go 
into 

Mr. Jackson. Would you enumerate the acts which you have con- 
tributed toward a greater and a finer and stronger nation? Just 
briefly. 

Dr. Schoen. I, first of all, have voted with regularity 

Mr. Jackson. The obligation of any citizen. 

Dr. Schoen. Unfortunately many citizens do not. 

Mr. Jackson. Unfortunately they do not. I do, however. 

Dr. Schoen. And cannot. 

Mr. Jackson. I exercise it all the time. We have that in common. 

Dr. Schoen. I also served in the Armed Forces and volunteered for 
overseas duty. 

Mr. Jackson. So did the majority of the members of this committee. 
We have that in common. 

Dr. Schoen. I am not arguing this. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1713 

Mr. Jackson. I am merely pointing it out because I don't think I 
will have a chance to go back and retrace it. 

Dr. Schoen. Offhand I think that the kind of dentistry I practice, 
both in my private practice and also that I attempted to practice in 
the Army, some of the things I attempted to initiate in the way of pub- 
lic health talks to the soldiers in the Army in terms of their teeth — 
this happens to be my field, dentistry. I think that this on a continuing 
basis has been proof and indication of this. 

Mr. Jackson. Of course, so far as your lectures to the soldiers were 
concerned you were receiving a very good stipend, and that was your 
duty for which you were being paid. I don't consider that as any 
great obligation. 

Dr. Schoen. This was a new lecture series which I participated in, 
initiating it. It had not been done before some of us initiated it. 

Mr. Jackson. Back to the oath. Have you ever taken an oath to 
defend and protect the United States of America against all of its 
enemies, foreign and domestic? 

Dr. Schoen (after conferring with counsel). I think that I have 
taken an oath more or less embodying that. Yes ; I believe that I have. 

Mr. Jackson. Was that oath taken in good faith ? 

Dr. Schoen (after conferring with counsel) . I am sorry that I have 
to refer to counsel, this is not 

Mr. Wood. You have that privilege, sir, and there should be no 
comment about it. 

Dr. Schoen. I always take my oaths in good faith. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you take such an oath today ? 

Dr. Schoen (after conferring with counsel) . Of course. 

Mr. Jackson. I am amazed with the speed with which you responded 
after consultation with counsel. 

Dr. Schoen. I believe I have the right to consult. 

Mr. Jackson. No one is questioning your right to consult with 
counsel. You have been making quite a point of your rights. I don't 
think any of your rights have been infringed upon whatsoever. 

Dr. Schoen. I think my being here is an infringement. 

Mr. Jackson. Your past activities, which must be assumed to have 
been free and voluntary, have brought you to the stand. Mr. Potter 
didn't recruit you into the Communist Party, nor did any other mem- 
ber of the committee. I say that very frankly, because the evidence 
is very plain and very clear that you were and probably are at the 
present time a member of the Communist Party and I think the record 
should show that very, very clearly. 

I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter, do you have any further questions ? 

Mr. Potter. Doctor, what has been your average income since you 
got out of the service? 

Dr. Schoen. This is a question which is rather difficult for me to 
answer. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Potter. Approximately. 

Dr. Schoen. I am trying to answer it. I want to tell why I am 
vague in my answer. I happen to be a bad businessman, and I think, 
also, that I can't quite see the pertinence of this. However, I think 
that my average income probably has ranged — the maximum that it 



1714 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

has been was $7,000, or approximately so last year. I am not quite 
sure — this year it might be approximately $8,000, I am not sure. 

Mr. Potter. Doctor, you have had the benefit of enjoying a fine 
formal education. Under our form of government you have been 
able to meet a normal success in a very honored profession. I would 
say that the American way of life hasn't shackled you ; that you have 
enjoyed the fruits of freedom that could not be received in any other 
country on the face of this earth. I say that you should be grateful 
to live in a society of free people in this country. And you are part 
of an organization that would overthrow the very thing that has 
made you a successful man and given you an opportunity to enjoy 
a way of life that you otherwise wouldn't have enjoyed if you were 
a part of a system behind the iron curtain. 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Potter. I say, Doctor, that you are a very ungrateful person 
and a very dangerous man. 

That's all, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. Schoen. I would just like to say, since Mr. Potter directed 
his remarks at me, that there is a difference of opinion here. 

In my opinion, it is the committee which is helping to destroy some 
of the things which Mr. Potter mentioned. 

Mr. Wood. What, for instance? 

Dr. Schoen. I think that by conducting what I characterized 
earlier, what I believed was more or less of a public trial, that this 
committee is helping to destroy some of the rights of free speech and 
free 

Mr. Wood. By that, do you mean, sir, that it is your opinion that 
the Congress of the United States should permit, unhampered, the 
practice of the Communist philosophy in this country, the spreading 
of an ideology that is designed to overthrow the very Government 
that you have been successful in your business and living under, and 
it should permit it to be done without raising a hand to investigate 
it or expose it ? Is that what you mean to say ? 

Dr. Schoen. Your question relates to an organization which has 
philosophies which have been deemed subversive. Therefore, I refuse 
to answer the question. 

Mr. Wood. Don't you think you are being extremely unfair to me 
when you raise that question, yourself, and say that we are engaged 
in an investigation that you yourself are criticizing 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Wood (continuing). And then, when I ask you to elucidate on 
the subject, you take shelter behind a provision of the very Constitu- 
tion that the people who belong to the organization that you are said 
to belong to believe in overthrowing and destroying ? 

Dr. Schoen. I don't believe that one can use the term "taking 
shelter behind the Constitution." I think the Constitution protects 
the rights of individuals and that by utilizing it one is helping to de- 
fend the Constitution. In terms of opinion, I also feel that investiga- 
tions into ideas is also prohibited by the Constitution, and that is why 
I have voiced criticism. 

Mr. Wood. But there is no duty on you to take shelter behind the 
fifth amendment. It is a privilege that is extended to you. If you 
want to exercise it, nobody requires you to take that shelter. I grant 
you the perfect right to do it. Nobody gainsays that right. The Con- 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1715 

stitution gives you that pivilege, but it never was the intention of the 
lawmakers of this land to require anybody to take advantage of it. 
It is put there for their protection but not for their shelter against 
an accusation that doesn't incriminate them, and when a man says that 
to answer a question would tend to incriminate him, when, in fact, it 
wouldn't, he speaks falsely. 

Dr. Schoen. I think you are implying certain things which you 
have no right to imply in relation 

Mr. AVood. Namely, what? 

Dr. Schoen (continuing). To my testimony. 

Mr. Wood. Just name one of them. 

Dr. Schoen. When a witness used the fifth amendment to the 
Constitution, I believe that there is no implication that may be drawn 
from the use of this fifth amendment. I am not an attorney. How- 
ever, I believe I know this much, and I refer you to my counsel for 
further discussion of that. 

Mr. "Wood. Let's put a page right down there and see if there isn't. 
When a man says to answer a question would incriminate him but that 
he is not guilty of the charge or accusation or implication involved in 
the question, then he is either guilty of one or two things : If, in fact, 
to answer the question truthfully would not incriminate him, then 
his statement that it would is false. Now, there isn't any escape from 
that conclusion. If I say that to answer a question whether or not I 
am a member of the Baptist Church would incriminate me, I obviously 
speak falsely; but, if I am not a member of the Baptist Church, to 
say that I am not a member of it certainly would not in any way or de- 
gree incriminate me. You have been asked whether or not you are 
a member of the Communist Party. If you are not a member of that 
party, then the correct answer would be that you are not and, certainly, 
no incriminating implications can be involved there, but when you say 
that to answer it would tend to incriminate you, and follow that up 
with an insinuation that you are not a member of it, is just simply 
plain double talk. 

Dr. Schoen. Mr. Wood, I think you are misinterpreting the Con- 
stitution of the United States. I have stated that an answer might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. I understood what you said. 

Dr. Schoen. As I understand the law, you have no right to draw 
any implication whatsoever from that. However, since I am not 
a lawyer, I do refer you to my counsel for this discussion. It is a 
kind of legal discussion. However, I do believe that you have mis- 
interpreted the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Wood. Well, to answer the question of whether you are a Com- 
munist or not would incriminate you or it wouldn't. If you say it 
would incriminate you, it leaves one conclusion in my mind and in 
the mind of every other fair-minded person within sound of your voice. 
Now, if. in fact, you are not a member of it, then your statement that 
it would tend to incriminate you isn't a true statement. 

Mr. Margolis. Mr. Wood, you have asked a legal question. May 
I comment on it? 

Mr. Wood. I don't care to be involved tn any legal discussion with 
counsel. 

Mr. Margolis. That is what it has been up to this point with a 
layman. 

81595— 51— pt. 5 G 



1716 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Wood. I am sure that counsel's opinion on the subject and mine 
could never be reconciled with respect to this particular subject we 
have under investigation, and we couldn't accomplish any good pur- 
pose by entering into a discussion about it. 

Mr. Margolis. That is quite right, but I will cite authorities to 
support my position. 

Mr. Wood. Yes. Mr. Counsel, have you any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason that you know why he shouldn't be 
excused from further attendance on this committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. So ordered. Who do you have now ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Elizabeth Wilson. 

Mr. Wood. Are you Mrs. Elizabeth Wilson? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Wood. Will you put up your right hand and be sworn, please ? 
You do solemnly swear that the evidence you give before this subcom- 
mittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mrs. Wilson. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Mrs. Wilson, are you represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Wilson. I have been advised of my legal rights and 

Mr. Wood. And you do not desire the presence of counsel ? 

Mrs. Wilson. No. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. If at any time during the progress of your 
interrogation you should determine that you find yourself in need of 
counsel, you will be given an opportunity to procure it. 

Mrs. Wilson. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will wait until the photographers are finished. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed, Counsel. 

TESTIMONY OF ELIZABETH WILSON 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. Will you state your name, Mrs. Wilson ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Elizabeth Wilson. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you any relation to Michael Wilson, who testi- 
fied here a few days ago ? 

Mrs. Wilson. No ; I am not. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mrs. Wilson? 

Mrs. Wilson. I was born in Tulsa, Okla., in 1914. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you hear? 

Mrs. Wilson. I will sit closer. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you will try to speak as though you were speak- 
ing directly to me, I believe everyone will hear you. 

Mrs. Wilson. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you live in Los Angeles ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes; I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived here? 

Mrs. Wilson. For most of my life. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee what your general 
educational training has been? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. Public schools in Los Angeles, ending with 
high school. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have a profession or occupation? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1717 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes; I am a screen writer, a writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged in that work? 

Mrs. Wilson. I have been engaged as a screen writer for a little 
more than a year. Before that 1 sold magazine stories. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you any film credits for screen writing? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes; 1 do. Because I am a woman they are, nat- 
urally, westerns. The last one was an unentitled western treatment 
at Fox, and the one before that was a screen play from my own 
original. The Cave, at Universal, and this was really my first movie 
joK 

Mr. Tavexxer. How long have you been connected with the moving- 
picture industry in Hollywood ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, you see, my mother was employed by the 
industry ; so, I have had an indirect relation to it all my life. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Wilson, during the course of the testimony in 
executive session of Air. Martin Berkeley several days ago you were 
identified as having been a member of the Communist Party under 
the name of Betty Anderson. 

Mrs. Wilson. That was my maiden name, and that is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were a member of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. 

Mr. Tavexxer. For how long a period of time were you a member? 

Airs. Wilson, Well, from the period adjoining and approximating 
1937, with many years in total inactive, during which I did not sever 
the affiliation but was inactive, a period of reactivity in late 19-16, 
ending late 1947. 

Mr. Wood. Will you please suspend here just a moment? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes. 

(A discussion was had off the record.) 

Mr. Tavexxer. I am certain you understand the objectives of this 
committee in its investigation of the extent of Communist infiltration 
into the moving-picture industry. 

Mrs. Wilsox. I do. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I would like for you to aid the committee in such 
manner as you can by giving the benefit of your information regard- 
ing Communist Party activities or Communist-front activities during 
the period that you have been associated with the party. I believe I 
should ask you first, however, to tell the committee the circumstances 
under which you became a member of the party. 

Mrs. Wilsox. I think it springs from school and the fact that in 
school, by virtue of having close personal friends who were of minor- 
ity groups, I very early developed a strong feeling against discrimina- 
tion against minority groups, and this was sort of the basic common 
denominator which I think led through a series of steps, and, I think, 
finally into the party. 

I left high school to hold a job. It was in a book store, and I 
worked there for the better part of 2 years, and while I worked in the 
book store someone offered me a job in the newly opened offices of 
the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. The book store that }'ou spoke of, 
was it connected or affiliated in any manner with the Communist 
Party ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Xone whatsoever. It was most bohemian, but it was 
not — it was a Hollywood book store and in no way 



1718 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. If you will continue. You spoke of 
having become active in the Anti-Nazi League. 

Mrs. Wilson. Somebody, perhaps, knew my feeling in the matter, 
felt that I would be interested in working for an anti-Nazi organiza- 
tion, and I was, very. The organization had been in existence for 
some months before it opened offices, and I became one of several secre- 
taries initially employed at the point when it opened offices. I should 
say that was in mid-1936, and the organization was very exciting and 
I liked working there very much. I remember my first official act very 
well. I sat in an empty office and a gentleman I had never seen be- 
fore, Herbert Biberman, opened the door and said, "Are you Miss 
Anderson ?" And I said, "Yes," and he said, "Take a letter." And he 
said, "Adolph Hitler, The Reichschaneellery, Berlin : In the name 
of humanity, I protest outrages," and so on and so on. And this was 
the first of — literally my first act on the job in the organization, and 
it was a wire, actually, that was finally sent, and it was a good one, 
and I began, in other words, in a secretarial capacity and as is the his- 
tory of all well-meaning organizations with boards busy elsewhere, 
many jobs devolved upon us in the office. We were really engaged 
in tremendous activity, and I found it all very exciting and construc- 
tive, and I believed in it. Decision did not often devolve on us. I 
might add that it was probably as the result of my enjoyment of this 
work and my agreement with it that a few months after I started 
working there I was invited to join a Marxist study group. 

It was pointed out that Marxists were active in the fight against 
fascism and I was very casually curious and more than willing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, in the course of your work with the Anti-Nazi 
League, did you come in contact with persons whom you later learned 
to be members of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether Mrs. Beatrice Buchman was 
active in the work of the Anti-Communist League? 

Mrs. Wilson. It was an anti-Nazi league. 

Mr. Tavenner. I mean, Anti-Nazi League. Excuse me. 

Mrs. Wilson. She was very active ; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have occasion to learn whether or not she 
was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, inasmuch as I never did see her in a formal 
group or on any other terms than what might be personal deduction — 
you can have that, if you want — it would be a matter of personal de- 
duction because I was — our relationship was marked by the absence 
of any contact in formal party activity. 

Mr. Tavenner. No. I would rather for you not to state just a 
personal conclusion. If you have any facts that you can give to the 
committee so the committee could draw its own conclusion, why, it- 
would be, I think, satisfactory, but it would only be facts that you know 
of first-hand. 

Mrs. Wilson. On this subject? 

Mr. Tavenner. As to the Communist Party membership of anyone. 

Mrs. Wilson. Oh. Well, yes. Perhaps— I mean, eventually, after- 
several steps I came to know, through a formal party group, many 
people who were active in the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League. May w& 
do it that way? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1719 

Mrs. Wilson. This followed a year in the Young Communist League 
group, the year of 1987 — I should say following a little study group 
to which I belonged, and finally I don't remember the circumstances, 
but I was transferred into the Communist Party itself, somewhere 
early in 1938, I should judge, into a branch whose concentration was 
the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League, and this branch included names, 
some of which you are terribly familiar with. Madelaine Ruthven, 
Jack Lawson — John Howard Lawson, that is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you go a little more slowly, please, and raise 
your yoice a little. I am not certain that I understood those names. 

Mrs. Wilson. Madelaine Ruthven, John Howard Lawson, Herbert 
and Gale Biberman, Sonja Dahl, Lou and Vera Harris, Herta Uerk- 
vitz, I believe, Jessie Burns. 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me. What was the name ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Jessie Burns. I think she was a part of this group. 
I at least saw her at Mrs. Ruthven's house on an occasion, as I re- 
member a party occasion. And Sam and Sadie Ornitz. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned the name of Sonja Dahl. Do you 
know her married name ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Biberman, Mrs. Edward Biberman. 

Mr. Tavenner. It was during the course of what meetings you be- 
came acquainted with those persons? 

Mrs. Wilson. These were — by the way, I might add that these are 
the only faces that I can establish beyond guesswork as having seen 
them at Communist Party branch meetings. You will remember that 
this is some years ago and that the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League was 
an explosively growing organization. In 1 year it obtained between 
six and seven thousand members and it was infinitely subdivided into 
commissions and committees and subcommittees, and all of these met, 
and I seemed to be meeting with all of them. This is a matter of record. 
These people, however, I am sure, or I would not have said so, were 
present at branch meetings whose concentration, while I was in the 
Hollywood Anti-Nazi League, was the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League. 

Mr. Tavenner. I wish you would tell us a little more about the 
functioning of the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League. Was it engaged in 
the raising of funds ? 

Mrs. Wilson. It was engaged — in the beginning I understand it 
was ambitious to really raise funds beyond its own functioning, to 
send for the relief of refugees and to the aid of the underground fight 
in Germany against Nazis. In effect this was accomplished a few 
times. Large contributions of — I don't have the records in front of 
me — but they must have been in the several thousands of dollars, were 
finally sent and were sent through — divided three ways and sent 
through three agencies, if my memory is correct, and these were a 
Jewish organization, a Catholic welfare organization, and a Protestant 
organization. However, very quickly the Anti-Nazi League became 
financially engaged in a fight to perpetuate, you know, in work to 
perpetuate itself. It became an educational organization rather than 
an aid organization primarily, and published a news] taper and was on 
the radio, and had mass meetings and was generally an educational 
instrument in the fight against Nazis. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, it developed into an organization 
which had propaganda purposes? 



1720 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. And I agreed and do agree with them. I might 
add that I found my period with it, several years, from 1936 probably 
through 1938, perhaps two, perhaps 2l/ 2 years, and during my experi- 
ence with it it was a very healthy and effective explosive, but effective 
organization which would have existed, I think, with or without Com- 
munists in membership. I believe it was the sort of expression of the 
times, and I — for instance, although my attendance at branch meetings 
was spotty because of my extensive activities with broader meetings, 
I don't recall, in the year's that I was with it, a real divergence, or any 
conflict in it, an area'of real conflict between the branch and the board 
of the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League, which was by all means, I should 
have said, non-Communist in its majority. This may just have so 
happened, but I thought it was a pretty good organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the circumstances under which the 
league became inactive, or dissolved? 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, no. I know that by hearsay, and I know them 
rather recently by hearsay, because at this point I had left the league 
and I was very active in another organization which reflected a certain 
period that I could speak of in first-hand terms. 

Mr. Tavenner. Before I ask you about that I would like to ask you 
if there was a person by the name of Otto Brada. 

Mrs. Wilson. Otto Brada. I heard of him, I never met him. I was 
told that the league may have been touched off by a large banquet given 
to him in Hollywood some months before the opening of offices, or 
before I was connected with it. He was supposed to be a German 
underground fighter and I only know him second-or third-hand, you 
know. I never met him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you acquire knowledge with regard to—well, 
if you did not know him yourself I doubt if you are in a position to 
state whether within your knowledge he was a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mrs. Wilson. I could make a guess. 

Mr. Tavenner. I don't want you to guess. 

Mrs. Wilson. O. K. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that you withdrew from your activity 
in the Anti-Nazi League and became active in another organization. 
Will you tell the committee about that? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. I was invited, to the best of my knowledge this 
was very unrelated to a party directive or move, but Philip Dunne, 
who is a non-Communist and anti-Communist was vice chairman of 
the Motion Picture Democratic Committee and conducted what he 
called a raid on the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League and asked me to be- 
come secretary of the Motion Picture Democratic Committee when 
their own secretary left for the East. 

I was probably, without knowing it, very tired of meetings and 
organizations but I thought that what I needed, inasmuch as I had 
to earn a living, was a change of pace. I eagerly accepted the offer 
and became for a few months full-time secretary of the Motion Picture 
Democratic Committee and then for many months a part-time sec- 
retary, half days. 

Mr. Tavenner. You entered into your secretarial work with that 
committee very soon after its organization, I assume from what you 
stated. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1721 

Mrs. Wilson. No. I believe that — I would say it was early in 1939 
that I went with the Motion Picture Democratic Committee, but it 
must have been in existence all throughout 1938, because it was, as I 
recall, very effective, for instance, and very energetic in sponsoring the 
recall which put Bowron in office. It also was effective in election 
activity that year. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were the purposes of the formation — I should 
change that question. What were the purposes of the Hollywood 
Democratic organization as you understood them? 

Mrs. Wilson. The Motion Picture Democratic Committee was — 
must have been formed — I believe its primary purpose was election 
work, was to use the sort of talents and special abilities of motion 
picture people in effecting the election of candidates that they agreed 
represented their best interests. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did that organization become interested in propa- 
ganda matters which had no relationship to the purpose which you 
mentioned ? 

Mrs. Wilson. It did. In several steps — they took several steps to 
accomplish this. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe that is rather a long story and as the 
chairman has indicated he would like a recess at 11 : 30, I believe it 
would be better not to start discussion of that matter at this time. 

Mr. Wood. Recess now? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will stand in recess for 15 minutes. 

(At this point a 15-minute recess was taken.) 

(Following the recess, all members of the committee being present, 
with the exception of Representative Donald L. Jackson, the hearing 
was resumed.) 

Mr. Wood. Let's have order, please. Are you ready to proceed 
further, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Wilson, at the time of our recess we were talk- 
ing about the Motion Picture Democratic Committee. You have 
stated the general purposes of the committee, namely, the objective 
of electing various people to office. I understood you to say that as 
the work of the committee progressed it became interested in projects 
that were not akin at all to the original objectives of the committee. 
I believe the best way to develop that, probably, would be for you to 
tell your experience, generally, in connection with that organization. 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, it was not an election year when I went to work 
there — — 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me. Would you raise your voice a little 
higher, please. Can you ? 

Airs. Wilson. I will try. It was not an election year when I went 
to work there. It was 1939, and I, in a period of a few months, 
familiarized myself with the board, with its meetings, and in the 
spring of 1939 Russia invaded Finland, and this was an immediate 
source of conflict and contention within the Motion Picture Demo- 
cratic Committee. Our chairman, Melvyn Douglas, and vice chair- 
man, Philip Dunne, sponsored a resolution jointly to present to the 
membership and the board condemning the invasion of Finland. The 



1722 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

board refused to endorse the resolution on the grounds that the Motion 
Picture Democratic Committee, up to that point, had not concerned 
itself with international issues and this was — that such a resolution 
was inconsistent with this stand, and the members who felt this way 
were eloquent, and very eloquent at membership meetings and the 
resolution failed to carry. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that not a striking example of the statement we 
have heard so often before this committee, that in the establishment 
of Communist-front organizations the Communist Party has opposed 
bitterly an organization taking a position on any issue which is, in 
any way, in conflict with the aims of the Communist Party or the 
Soviet Union ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, the Communists within the organizations do, 
but I am sure that in the beginning, the Motion Picture Democratic 
Committee was a fairly broad organization 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Wilson. Or it wouldn't have had Douglas and Dunne as its 
officers. 

Mr. Tavenner. But the issue that had arisen here was whether or 
not there should be a condemnation of the Soviet Union for its attack 
on Finland ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the Communists were very bitter 

Mrs. Wilson. The Communists were. 

Mr. Tavenner. On that issue, and opposed the organization taking 
a stand on the issue? 

Mrs. Wilson. Right. 

Mr. Tavenner. And it opposed, on the ground that it was not within 
the purposes of the committee to create issues of that kind. 

Now, what was the situation where the issue was one where the Com- 
munist Party, itself, was interested? Was there a situation that 
developed in which the facts were just turned around the other way, 
where the Communist Party was interested in behalf of the Nation 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Which had nothing to do with the purposes for 
which the organization was formed ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Such an issue occurred and was a source of very great 
personal disturbance and puzzlement to me at the time. Very easy 
to hindsight it, but I wasn't so — I just knew that I was uneasy and 
that 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson entered the hearing room.) 

Mrs. Wilson (continuing) . I was uneasy on practical terms, because 
its effect on the organization was disastrous. Shortly after the Stalin- 
Hitler pact was signed, a national organization called the American 
Peace Mobilization came into being, and the American Peace Mobiliza- 
tion invited organizational affiliation from all over the country, and I 
can't recall whether at this point Douglas and Dunne had resigned — 
they were at least inactive — and the board decided to urge this affilia- 
tion on invitation from the American Peace Mobilization, and it was 
accomplished. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, those two illustrations which you have given 
are most striking because they demonstrate just what the Communist 
Party has attempted to do in the establishment of the front organiza- 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1723 

tions, to oppose the organization making an issue out of something 
which is unfavorable to the Communist Party, and yet righting desper- 
ately for the creation of issues in which the Communist Party was 
involved. 

Mr. Walter. More than that, I think it demonstrates beyond any 
question the insincerity of their loud proclamations about peace today, 
because here they are actively opposing a resolution condemning a 
cowardly act of aggression. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you move just a little closer to the micro- 
phone, please. 

Mrs. Wilson. Almost impossible. 

Mr. Tavenner. And raise your voice just a little more, please. Will 
you name for the committee persons in that group, in the Motion Pic- 
ture Democratic Committee, who were known to you to be members 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. When I left the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League 
and I was transferred, a branch concentrating on its work to one 
concentrating on the work of the Motion Picture Democratic Com- 
mittee, and this branch included many board members. I can't state — 
I am sure it wasn't a majority but I couldn't state this without ref- 
erence to the letterhead. These members were Robert Tasker, John 
Bright 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. You are going a little too fast. 
Will you spell the name of Tasker? 

Mrs. Wilson. Robert Tasker, T-a-s-k-e-r; John Bright. 

Mr. Tavenner. B-r-i-g-h-t? 

Mrs. Wilson. Right. Dick Fiske, F-i-s-k-e; Maurice Murphy, 
Harold Buchman 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Harold Buchman hold any official position in 
that organization? 

Mrs. Wilson. I believe he was treasurer. Allen Matthews. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there a person by the name of Victor Shapiro 
connected with the work of that committee ? 

Mrs. Wilson. He was a member of the board and I fail to estab- 
lish him as a member of the branch. 

Mr. Tavenner. You personally of your own knowledge do not know 
whether he was a member of the Communist Party or not? 

Mrs. Wilson. My personal memory is not serviceable on this issue. 

Mr. Tavenner. He has been identified as a member of the Commu- 
nist Party 

Mrs. Wilson. I understand that. 

Mr. Tavenner. By Mr. Martin Berkeley. 

Mrs. Wilson. And it may have been. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there any other experience you had in connec- 
tion with that group which you can give the committee the benefit of, 
which may be of interest to it? 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, I think that I found a matter — because I was 
interested in the organization and believed in it, I found very dis- 
turbing, and although I was slow to understand its significance, the 
organization deteriorated and ceased to exist, oh, within a year after 
its affiliation — I mean within months after its affiliation with the 
APM, American Peace Mobilization. Members ceased to pay dues, 
to support it actively. It become very narrow and sectarian, fell into 
debt and closed its offices. 



1724 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you state is the basic reason for that I 

Mrs. Wilson. I feel that the affiliation with the American Peace 
Mobilization obviously didn't meet with the agreement of the majority 
of its members. 

Mr. Tavexner. In other words, the non-Communist members of the 
organization would not go along with the Communist Party line? 

Sirs. Wilson. This could be a conclusion drawn from the record. 

Mr. Tavexner. With the result that the organization withered and 
died? 

Mrs. Wilson. It did die. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of any other organizations 
which you can now recall which functioned as Communist fronts? 

Mrs. Wilson. No. I attended, however, when the American Peace 
Mobilization had a conference in Chicago. It had been achieved, you 
know, from my bird's-eye view at such severe cost to my organization 
that I was very curious and I went as a delegate of the defunct organ- 
ization, is what it amounted to, and it was overwhelming. It was 
attended by thousands of people and I could not assess it. I could 
only — in the realm of my immediate personal experience knew that 
it had been partially — that my own organization in affiliating had 
ceased to be, and this seemed to me to be something wrong with it. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Will you go back now to your first entry into the 
Young Communist League and tell us just how your membership 
developed, first from one group to another. 

Mrs. Wilsox. A few months, as I said, after joining the Hollywood 
Anti-Nazi League as secretary, I was approached by someone, possibly 
Dick Collins, who suggested that I join a Marxist study group be- 
cause the people attending the group, he felt, had the same strong 
feeling against discrimination that I did. I went somewhat socially, 
curiously. It was conducted by a furniture worker whose first name 
was Arthur, last name long since vanished. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Excuse me. Will you state that over again, please? 

Mrs. Wilsox. It was conducted by a furniture worker, I remember, 
a young man whose first name was Arthur. And attending it were 
Budd Schulberg, Bob Lees — who were most of us, you see, second- 
generation picture people, young people. Fred Rinaldo, Ambur Dana, 
Dick Collins, Leon Becker. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Excuse me. I believe you are going a little too 
rapidly. Will you give those names over again and spell the last 
names, if the name is unusual at all. 

Mrs. Wilsox. They are not unusual to you. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I couldn't hear them. But nevertheless we must 
have them correct from the standpoint of the record. You may be 
giving us credit for more knowledge than we have. 

Mrs. Wilsox. Budd Schulberg, S-c-h-u-1-b-e-r-g. 

Mr. Tavexxer. We are well acquainted with Mr. Schulberg. He 
has testified before this committee and made a full disclosure of his 
Communist Party experiences, which were very distressing to him. 

Mrs. Wilson. Bob Lees, L-e-e-s. 

Mr. Tavexxer. He hasn't appeared before the committee, and that 
is all. 

Mrs. Wilsox. Fred Rinaldo, R-i-n-a-1-d-o; Ambur Dana, 
A-m-b-u-r D-a-n-a. 

Mr. Tavexxer. What is her married name? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1725 

Mrs. Wilson. I understood she was at one point married to Waldo 
Salt. That's all I know. I don't know where she is now. Dick 
Collins, C-o-l-l-i-n-s: Leon Becker, B-e-c-k-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the occupation of Mr. Leon Becker? 

Mrs. Wilson. I don't remember; I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where he resided? 

Mrs. Wilson. No, I don't. I barely remember him — I have a bare 
visual memory of him, as a matter of fact. Maurice Rapf, R-a-p-f; 
Louise Seidel, S-e-i-d-e-1 : and myself. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now will you tell the committee how you progressed 
to membership in the Communist Party itself. 

Mrs. Wilson. At the close of the study group Budd Schulberg, very 
casually — so casually that I am sure he doesn't even remember it — 
asked me to join the Young Communist League, and equally casually, 
although out of a genuine curiosity and a conviction that the young 
people that met in this study group shared many of my convictions. I 
accepted. I was a memberof this Young Communist League group 
for most of the year 1937, 1 should judge. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask you to refer again to those persons who 
attended this Marxist study group with you. Were there any of those 
persons named by you who were not known by you to be members of 
the Communist Party or to have joined at a later time or have been 
members at some time? 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, they weren't — I would have assumed that they 
were all in a sort of novice status like myself, with the possible excep- 
tion of Budd Schulberg. 

Mi-. Tavenner. So I think for that very reason we should examine it 
at this time to determine whether or not there was any name in that 
list which was not affiliated with the Communist Party, to your knowl- 
edge, at a later time, so that the record may be perfectly clear about 
that. 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, I can state immediately that to my knowledge 
Ambur Dana was never, in my experience, present at any party meet- 
ings that I attended, nor Louise — oh, no, that is not true. I'm sorry. 
Leon Becker was never part of a party group that I was part of. 

Mr. Tavkxner. Are there any others I 

Mrs. Wilson. No ; I think that's it. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you continue in your activity in the 
party ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, I was — as I say 

Mr. Tavenner. You were just in the Young Communist League? 

Mrs. Wlson. Yes. Excuse me. I was a member of this group for 
about a year, and then I was apparently transferred to a group whose 
concentration was the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League within the Com- 
munist Party, itself. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who composed that group ? 

Mis. Wilson. The YCL group? 

Mr. Tavenner. No; the group 

Mrs. Wilson. I have given that to you. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was the first group that you gave us? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, I see. Will you give us the names of those 
who were members of the Young; Communist League? 



1726 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mrs. Wilson. The names that I recall, the faces I recall as being 
present there rather than at Browder meetings which I was then at- 
tending of the Hollywood Anti-Nazi League, were Paul and Sylvia 
Jarrico, J-a-r-r-i-c-o; Virginia Schulberg. I do not recall Budd in 
that group. 

Mr. Tayexxer. She was the wife of Budd Schulberg? 

Mrs. Wilson. Budd Schulberg. Dick Collins, Maurice Rapf, Bob 
Lees, Ring Lardner, Louise Seidel. 

Mr. Tayexxer. Now, will you tell the committee what further ex- 
periences you had within the Communist Party and bring it on up 
until the time that you 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. 

Mr. Tavexner. Severed your connection with the Communist Party. 

Mrs. Wilsox. Yes. Well, after the APM convention, I returned to 
Hollywood very tired and eager to remove myself from organizational 
work, which I did, using some very real, personal, financial, and other- 
wise reasons. I held bread-and-butter typing jobs outside of organi- 
zational work. There was a branch which I attended more and more 
rarely, which, in effect, watched my winging away from the party dur- 
ing the latter part of 1940 and 1941, I should say, and the war came, 
and in 1942 I married a man who never has been in nor could be a 
member of the Communist Party. He was drafted and I spent the 
war years as a camp follower in very fine and very varied experiences, 
from my point of view, afflicted with Hollywood claustrophobia, 
away from Hollywood and far away from the party. I had a child 
and learned to take care of it, which is very occupying, and I never, 
however, formally severed relationship with the party, which is the 
key, perhaps — I mean, this is an emotional act and a rather necessary 
one, in a way, because it is an intellectual decision, too, and I never 
accomplished it, although I was absolutely inactive, and I think that 
led to what happened in 1946 on my return to Hollywood, because 
I came back after — it must have been 4 years away, and I renewed 
acquaintances, and, necessarily, because of the nature of my years in 
Hollywood, the kind of work I had been in, so on, many of these 
friendships were friends within the party, and they were most urgent 
in suggesting that I reestablish an active connection with the party, 
and I — it" took many months to even allow my curiosity to be active 
to this extent. I was quite resistant, but not thinking about it very 
much. I made many protests that I had had a very unhappy experi- 
ence with the Motion Picture Democratic Committee and the APM 
and that I had many unresolved questions, and the suggestion was 
made that the removal of Browder in leadership had cured all ills, 
or had, at least, wiped out the source of many mistakes. This, in 
effect, was a contradiction in terms, but you must remember the year. 

The war was just over, the horizons looked clear. Curiosity was 
a very personal thing and didn't seem to jeopardize my family or — 
you know, my country. On a personal basis, in terms of its having 
helped me to crystallize many dormant doubts and reservations. I 
can't regret that year, 1947, in the course of which I attended a half 
a dozen to a dozen party meetings, and this was the last group with 
which I was associated in the party, and saw my — the group which 
accepted my formal disaffiliation, I should say, in the early part of 
1948, if it wasn't in the latter part of 1947. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1727 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names of those who were in 
this croup that you reamliated with? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. Jack Lawson, a very omnipresent gentleman 
in my party history; Lester Cole, Morton and Betty Grant, Melvin 
Levy, L-e-v-y ; Arnold and Marge Manoff, M-a-n-o-f-f ; Peggy Gruen, 
G-r-u-e-n; Tom Chapman, C-h-a-p-m-a-n; Mortie Offner, O-f-f-n-e-r; 
George Beck, B-e-c-k; John Sanford, S-a-n-i'-o-r-d, and Sue Lawson, 
Jack Lawson's wife. It was a very large group, and a very, very 
small part of them were in attendance at meetings, and these were the 
ones I happened to see. 

Mr. Tavenner. You referred to a person by the name of Tom Chap- 
man. Do you know what his occupation was, or can you identify him 
further ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Employed by a studio 

Mr. Tavenner. Sorry 

Mrs. Wilson. As a reader, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, during the course of your party experience, 
did you become acquainted with any functionaries of the party whose 
names you have not mentioned ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. You know, they often visited branches in which 
I was involved. Some of them were teachers conducting spaced lec- 
tures. The teachers that I recall were Dr. Leo Bigelman and Harry 
Carlisle. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Leo Bigelman is the same gentleman who ap- 
peared before this committee a few days ago? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes. The functionaries were John Stapp, S-t-a-p-p, 
Elizabeth Leech, L-e-e-c-h, who is connected — who is the functionary 
of the Motion Picture Democratic Committee branch. All I remem- 
ber, offhand. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Elizabeth Leech's married name? 

Mrs. Wilson. I am not sure. I have heard it. I heard it, you 
know, by virtue of the committee hearings. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, we don't want you to testify regarding mat- 
ters you heard in here. Were you acquainted with Charles Glenn? 

Mrs. Wilson. I have met him, but I don't recall linking him at 
party meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you state to the committee, please, the 
circumstances under which you left the party? 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, first of all, I take some of the dignity out of my 
decisive act by having to admit that if I hadn't had a reason, it would 
have happened anyway, because my husband insisted, but there was 
a reason, and it was the fact that 1947 was a year of — well, you know, 
at the beginning of it things seemed clear, and by the end- of it they 
no longer seemed such smooth sailing. This was reflected possibly 
within the party in terms of party literature, by an emphasis on the 
necessity for supporting a third party, should it be formed. 

I was interested in the development of this — I was really quite 
fascinated by it, because quite apart from my own feeling about the 
efficacy or the need for a third party, there was a fallacy in the party, 
the Communist Party approach to this whole issue, because, first of 
all. party literature stated that a third party would be an impracti- 
cality unless it were supported by a number of large unions. It gave 
the number — I don't recall — and named them — I don't recall. Then 
the year rolled around, and I suppose it was necessary to file, and these 



1728 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

unions still did not support a third party, but somewhere a third party 
came into being and the Communist Party threw its support behind 
the third party. At least, as reflected in the branch I was a member 
of, and this seemed to me, as I say, in their own terms very fallacious 
thinking again, my own terms, and again, in the course of that year, 
or all through it, I had been differentiating in this, the way they and 
me, which, I suppose, was the sort of show-me basis on which I had 
returned to the party, but on my own terms. Well, the third party, 
the Independent People's Party, had as a slogan "a peace party." It 
was called the Party for Peace, and this last year in the Communist 
Party branch had crystallized, as I say, many, many doubts and feel- 
ings for me. I stopped attending meetings before I formally severed 
affiliation, although there was only a lapse of a month or so, I should 
say, because I decided that I want peace very much as all other Ameri- 
cans want it, but I would have to think very hard and realize par- 
ticularly and independently about the terms and associations on which 
I want peace, and no one else can do the thinking for me. I believe 
that this isn't necessary, you know, perhaps for some people within 
the Communist Party, but it certainly was necessary with me. It is 
a cliche, but it happened to me. 

I stopped believing, for instance, that the ends ever justified the 
means. I stopped believing in the infinite good will or will for peace 
of the Soviet Union, or that the sacrifice of the personal liberty is 
ever justified anywhere, and I think that these are the bases on which 
I accomplished the formal severing of relationship with the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. The severance of your connection with the Com- 
munist Party was final and complete? 

Mrs. Wilson. It was. It took the form of a visit after some months 
had passed without my attendance, a visit to me by Arnold Manoff, 
who is a writer, who said that if I had stopped attending meetings 
because I was finding it difficult to write as a Communist Party mem- 
ber, the party was taking steps to alleviate this difficulty, which was a 
matter of time and convenience, and I said, "No," that, "my differences 
are much more fundamental," and I explained them as I have ex- 
plained them to you, and he said that he would relay this information 
to the branch and that I could consider myself no longer a member of 
the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever live in the State of Michigan ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Never at any point. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you reside there temporarily in 1946 ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Never. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am referring particularly to Flint, Mich. The 
reason I am asking you that is that the committee has information 
that a person by the name of Elizabeth Anderson lived in Flint Mich., 
and signed a Communist Party nominating petition in 1946. 

Mrs. Wilson. Categorically, it was not I, but I have been haunted 
by my name, you know. There were three Elizabeth Andersons in 
high school when I was there. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. I will yield to the members of the committee for any 
questions that they may desire to ask at this point. Mr. Walter. 

Mr. Walter. Mrs. Wilson, you perhaps don't realize how great a 
contribution you have made to our work. Your testimony, for ex- 
ample, with respect to the division of the money collected by the Anti- 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1729 

Nazi League has thrown some light on something that we have been 
concerned about, particularly those of us who also participated in 
that, what we thought was a very fine, lofty, undertaking. 

Mrs. Wilson. Thank you. 

Mr. Walter. 1 congratulate yon. I think the people in this country 
owe you a deep debt of gratitude. That's all. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I, too, wish to join with my distinguished colleague and 
adopt his complimentary words as mine. 

I noted you twice referred to Douglas Fairbanks as vice chairman 
and another gentleman as chairman. 

Mrs. Wilson. No. Melvyn Douglas 

Mr. Doyle. Oh, Melvyn Douglas. 

Mrs. Wilson. Melvyn Douglas was chairman and Philip Dunne, 
D-u-n-n-e 

Mr. Doyle. Oh, yes. 

Mrs. Wilson. I do hope that what happened to some people that 
Mr. Berkeley named as non-Communists doesn't happen to them, be- 
cause they are distinctly in action and belief not Communists. 

Mr. Doyle. I wanted to make sure that I participated in emphasiz- 
ing that which you emphasized. 

Mrs. Wilson. Thank you. 

Mr. Doyle. That is why I am bringing it out. I had always under- 
stood that Philip Dunne and Melvyn Douglas were not Communists. 

Mrs. Wilson. That is entirely true. 

Mr. Doyle. Is that from your own personal knowledge ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Oh, absolutely. 

Mr. Doyle. You mentioned a number of young people, and included 
yourself at that time, and said that you were second-generation 
motion-picture people. 

Mrs. Wilson. Many of us were, perhaps most of us. 

Mr. Doyle. Does that mean we are to understand that the motion- 
picture artists affiliated with the motion-picture industry at that time, 
I mean as parents, were encouraging their own children to participate 
in the Young Communist League ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Not at all. I am sure that the reverse is true. I am 
sure that it is a pattern that you will find in any part of the United 
States, it is a very youthful pattern. I was 20 or less. And we 
unquestionably were drawn to this because it represented an infringe- 
ment on authority, you know, with its faintly conspiratorial aura. 
I am convinced that none of the parents involved were responsible,, 
and, in fact, distressed to know about it. 

Mr. Doyle. My distinguished colleague to my left reminds me that 
I am trying to question you within 3 minutes. Did you ever read any 
Communist literature or hear any Communist lecturer expound in 
support of the United States Constitution as written, emphasize that 
the Communist must be loyal to the Constitution of the United States 
and its system of Government ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, certainly I heard the Bill of Rights specifically 
cited. 

Mr. Doyle. I refer now to the balance of the Constitution and the 
rest of the amendments. 



1730 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mrs. Wilson. This is a matter — I can't — I do not recall one tiling 
or the other, I really don t, you know. I mean it mav be conspicuous 
by 

Mr. Doyle. Was there ever any constitution of the Communist 
Party submitted to you for signature ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Never that I remember. It was submitted to me for 
reading, for my own information, and I never read it. 

Mr. Doyle. In fact, you have never yet read it? 

Mrs. Wilson (indicating by shaking head from side to side). 

Mr. Doyle. We have a copy of it 

Mrs. Wilson. I don't want to read it. 

Mr. Doyle. And for your information I will say that there is no 
declaration of loyalty to the United States Constitution or the Declara- 
tion of Independence in it. It is not found. But there is a pledge 
and an oath, substantially, of allegiance to the Soviet Union, as is so 
vigorously always brought out by my distinguished colleague from 
Michigan. I hope he brings it out again. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. I should like to join with my colleagues in thanking 
you for your testimony, which I think has added something to the 
sum of the knowledge of the committee. 

Tell me, in a closed session, in a branch meeting where only Com- 
munists were present, was it customary to open that meeting as the 
Elks, Rotary, Kiwanis, and a lot of other organizations which happen 
to believe in the United States of America do — was it customary to 
open the meeting with a pledge of allegiance of any sort ? 

Mrs. Wilson. No ; it was not. 

Mr. Jackson. Or to the Constitution ? 

Mrs. Wilson. No. 

Mr. Jackson. Or to the flag ? 

Mrs. Wilson. No. 

Mr. Jackson. Was the American flag displayed at those meetings? 

Mrs. Wilson. No. 

Mr. Jackson. It was not displayed ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Not as a matter of established 

Mr. Jackson. Were the pictures of the great American patriots 
displayed — for instance, George Washington and Abraham Lincoln — 
at party functions? 

Mrs. Wilson. You know, they were in hired halls for the most part, 
and they could have been present or they could not have been present. 
But not by 

Mr. Jackson. Were you ever present when any pictures of any great 
Soviet leaders were displayed prominently? 

Mrs. Wilson. Actually, I was not. 

Mr. Jackson. You never saw them ? 

Mrs. Wilson. No ; I never did. 

• Mr. Jackson. Well, I made a trip as an observer for the Elks lodge — 
which, incidentally, in the text of these hearings should not be con- 
sidered subversive, for it is a great and loyal American organiza- 
tion — sent me as an observer one time. You could hardly see the 
stage for the pictures of Mr. Lenin. The American flag was con- 
spicuously absent, as was any pledge of allegiance to any institution, 
any ideal, or tradition of the United States of America. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1731 

I hope that your break is final and definite, and I congratulate you 
on your courage in coming forward to tell what you know about a 
conspiratorial device. 

Mrs. Wilson. Thank you. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter. 

Mr. Potter. Mrs. Wilson, when you were a member of the Motion 
Picture Democratic Committee, I assume that the Communist work 
within that organization operated as a fraction; is that true? 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, I suppose. I have always been vague about 
the literal meaning of the word "fraction," but in your usage of it, 
I think possibly it is correct. 

Mr. Potter. Did you ever have meetings prior to the regular set 
meetings of the committee, did the Communist members ever have 
meetings of their own to plan the strategy of what action should be 
taken to influence the policy of the entire committee? 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, whether they were special meetings or not, cer- 
tainly in the moments — in the times of crisis that I refer to over the 
Russian invasion of Finland and the APM, there was extensive dis- 
cussion within the party of the necessity for and defeating one and 
supporting the other. 

Mr. Potter. Did the members of the Communist Party, who were 
in the committee, did they work in unison, did they vote in unison? 

Mrs. Wilson. Yes ; I would say they did, with an exception. 

Mr. Potter. Would you care to discuss the exception ? 

Mrs. Wilson. Well, I believe that Maurice Murphy, whom I recall 
as a very seldom attendant at branch meetings of the Motion Picture 
Democratic Committee, had the survival of the body as an election 
organization very much at heart and was very vocal in feeling that 
the affiliation with the APM would be inimicable to its survival. 

Mr. Potter. Mrs. Wilson, I, too, wish to join with my colleagues 
and hope that in your little capacity as a wife, mother, and writer you 
will have a very happy future and a successful future. 

Mrs. Wilson. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions by counsel? 

Mr. Tavenner. No further questions. 

Mr. Wood. As I previously pointed out in these hearings, it has been 
said on high authority that to admit a mistake and honestly seek to 
rectify it requires the highest degree of moral courage. I join with 
my colleagues on this subcommittee in extending to you the very deep 
appreciation of the committee for the valuable contribution that you 
have made to our work and to the American people. I, too, feel that 
the people in this area and the entire United States are sincerely in- 
debted to you for your courage and your willingness to come here and 
give us the benefit of the information which you have given us today. 
1 wish to extend the sincere thanks of the committee. 

You are excused from further attendance on the committee. 

The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock. 

( Whereupon, at 12 : 30 p. m., a recess was taken in the above hearings 
until 2 p. m. of the same day.) 



S1595— 51— pt. 5- 



1732 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(Whereupon, at 2 : 05 p. m. of the same day the proceedings were 
resumed, the same parties being present with the exception of Kepre- 
sentative Charles E. Potter. ) 

Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order. 

Before proceeding further with the hearings of witnesses I desire at 
this point to read into the record a letter of correction which I have 
received special delivery from Mr. Irwin L. DeShelter, regional di- 
rector of the Congress of Industrial Organizations for this region. 
This is written on the stationery of that organization and directed to 
the chairman of this committee, and it is in the following language : 

I note from press reports of your subcommittee's present hearings on Com- 
munist activities in Hollywood, that witnesses have mentioned the name of Jeff 
Kibre as one of those who belonged to a Communist Party unit. Kibre also was 
identified as "presently head of a CIO fishermen's union in San Pedro." It is this 
second point which here concerns us. 

Please be informed that Kibre is not a member of a "CIO fishermen's union" 
or any CIO union. Kibre, we understand, is an official in a fishermen's" union 
which is now part of the independent International Longshoremen's and Ware- 
housemen's Union, of which Harry Bridges is president. 

The fishermen's union with which Kibre is identified was thrown out of the 
CIO some 2 years ago after it was found guilty of charges that it was dominated 
by Communists. Bridges' ILWU was also ejected about the same time for the 
same reason. The two organizations have since merged. 

If Kibre has been identified in your official records as belonging to a "CIO 
fishermen's union," we respectfully request that a correction be entered to make 
it clear that CIO has nothing to do with the likes of Kibre. 
Sincerely yours, 

Irwin L. DeShelter, 
CIO Regional Director. 

Who do you call, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Murray Abowitz, please. 

Mr. Kenny. Mr. Tavenner, 1 explained to you that the doctor is on 
call at his office, This is his day at the hospital. If you want him this 
afternoon I can phone him and have him down here 

Mr. Tavenner. How long will it take for him to be here ? 

Mr. Kenny. I think a half hour. 

Mr. Tavenner. I suggest you call him right away, sir. 

Mr. Kenny. Yes, I will. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Jeff Corey. 

Mr. Wirin. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Corey is an actor and he feels tele- 
vision will hurt him. He does not want to be televised. 

Mr. Wood. Is Mr. Corey present ? Let him come forward and urge 
his own objection. 

Mr. Corey. I urge, Mr. Chairman, that television not be used on 
my visit. 

Mr. Wood. Very well, if you object to it the same directive will 
be given as has been previously given. 

Mr. Corey. I, too, would find the still photographers during the 
process of testimony disconcerting, so I am sure we can dispense with 
that during the course of the testimony. 

Mr. Wood. In that case I will ask the photographers to make what- 
ever pictures they desire now. 

Mr. Corey. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Wood. And then they will desist until the testimony is finished. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1733 

Mr. Wirin. May I assure the photographers Mr. Corey isn't that 
important, but that's for them to decide. 

Mr. Wood. That is a matter I can't pass on. 

Mr. Corey. Mr. Chairman 

Mr. Wood. Do you object to being photographed at all? 

Mr. Corey. Oh, no. It is unavoidable. I was just going to ex- 
plain mv attitude with regard to television, if I may. 

Mr. Wood. If you will just wait a minute, we would like to get 
you under oath. 

Now. Mr. Corey, if you will stand and be sworn. 

Mr. Corey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Hold up your right hand, please, sir. You do solemnly 
swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee shall be the truth, 
the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Corey. I do, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF JEFF COREY, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, • 

A. L. WIRIN 

Mr. Wood. In the light of the fact, sir, that you have entered your 
objection to being televised and the directive has been given that you 
not be televised, I can't see that your views on that particular subject 
would be material any longer. It couldn't affect you because you are 
not being televised. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Jeff Corey? 

Mr. Corey. That's right. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Corey? 

Mr. Corey. I was born in New York City, August 10, 1914. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ? 

Mr. Corey. I am an actor. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you engaged in your profession in California? 

Mr. Coret. I am really not, sir. My name was brought up at an 
earlier committee hearing and since then I have been gray-listed, if 
not completely black-listed. Hitherto I had been quite busy as an 
actor, but my professional fortunes have waned considerably, coin- 
cident with the mentioning of my name. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you say your name was mentioned in con- 
nection with the work of this committee, are you referring to the 
testimony of Mr. Marc Lawrence given in Washington 

Mr. Corey. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Which, I believe, was April 24, 1951. Do you know 
Mr. Marc Lawrence? 

Mr. Corey. I know him as an actor who played an informer; with', 
great verisimilitude, in a picture called Asphalt Jungle. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you associated with him in a Communist Party 
cell or group? 

Mr. Corey. Mr. Chairman. I am cognizant of my privileges as a 
citizen, and I will stand on the first and fifth amendments of the 
United States Constitution and on article 18 of the Declaration of 
Human Rights as passed by the General Assembly of the United 
Nations, which reacts in part, if I may paraphrase it, that everyone' 
shall have the right to freedom of conscious thought and religion, 
the right to change his belief or religion in private or alone, in public 
or on community with others to so manifest his belief. 



1734 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Wood. Well, the directives of the United Nations are not as 
3 r et the law of this land and otf'er no protection to the witness for 
refusing to testify. If you base your declination to answer that ques- 
tion upon the fifth amendment to the Constitution of the United 
States, that is in force and is respected. 

Mr. Corey. Yes ; specifically in regard to the prior question, I am 
very proud to use my privileges, as I understand them, according to 
the first and fifth amendments of our noble Bill of Rights. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting 
with Marc Lawrence? 

Mr. Corey. Mr. Counsel, that is approximately the same question, 
I am sure you will agree with me, and my answer remains the same. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is not necessarily the same. You may have some 
explanation if such a thing occurred. 

Mr. Corey. Specifically, I decline, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. If you decline to answer, that is the end of it as far as 
we are concerned, sir. That is a sufficient answer here. 

Mr. Corey. Sir, I was trying to facilitate matters. 

Mr. Wood. You will facilitate by answering the questions. We 
will get along a lot faster. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Actors' Laboratory ? 

Mr. Corey. For some desire, ironic, strange reason, I believe, Mr. 
Counselor, that name has been put on a subversive list by the Attorney 
General and possibly by other groups who have cataloged organi- 
zations and periodicals and as a consequence I stand on my privileges 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Wood. And decline to answer ? 

Mr. Corey. Yes ; I decline to answer. If I said I decline to answer 
in regard to all future questions, can we come to an agreement that I 
base it on the fifth amendment for purposes of economy ? 

Mr. Wood. It will be so designated and it will save a lot of time, 
unless you designate otherwise. 

Mr. Corey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Southern California chap- 
ter of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions Council ? 

Mr. Ccrey. Well, that organization, too, has merited acceptance on 
a number of lists, and I decline to answer that on these same grounds 
as now revised, sir. 

Mr. Wood. By the way 

Mr. Corey. Yes, sir? 

Mr. Wood. We might also expedite the hearing by simply making 
your reply without recounting the status of the organization men- 
tioned, because I believe the committee is fairly familiar with the status 
of those organizations. 

Mr. Corey. I don't want to sound like a parrot repeating these 
things. I have a great sensibility toward sounds and words, being 
an actor of some sensitivity. I will try to restrain myself. I just hate 
repeating a thing again and again, particularly when I think there 
is some importance to what I say, and there have been so many mis- 
apprehensions as to its use, hiding behind, cloaking yourself. I stand 
on the fifth amendment very proudly. 

Mr. Wood. You have already said you do on that question. That 
is sufficient. 

Mr. Corey. I was rather surprised to have this 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1735 

Mr. Wood. It is very embarrassing having to listen to a stump 
speaker. 

Mr. Corey. I am not running for office. 

Mr. Wood. Not here. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. AVood. I yield to a member of the committee, Mr. Walter. Any 
questions? 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle, have you any questions? 

Mr. Doyle. I notice, Mr. Corey, in answer to the first declination 
which you made 

Mr. Wirin. You say declination or declamation? 

Mr. Doyle. Declination. 

Mr. Wirin. I thought you said declamation. 

Mr. Corey. I was guilty of both declinations and declamations, ap- 
parently. 

Mr. Doyle. I heard you in both. I noticed you said that you stood 
upon your rights both as to the first amendment and the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Corey. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Now, I wondered what the first amendment had to 
do, if anything, with your declining. I don't understand that that 
involves the question of possible incrimination. 

Mr. Corey. Well, I just — I do feel, and I — apparently you and I 
might be in opposition to this point of view — that my rights of free- 
dom of conscious thought, as embodied in the Bill of Rights, are 
violated by my being summoned and interrogated in front of this 
hearing. 

Mr. Doyle. I know, but you don't claim 

Mr. Corey. So I mention it. 

Mr. Doyle. I see. 

Mr. Corey. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. That answers my question. 

Mr. Corey. I feel that 

Mr. Doyle. No, that answers my question. I didn't ask you for a 
stump speech. 

Mr. Wirin. Now, Mr. Doyle. I say, now, Mr. Doyle, is that the 
prerogative only of Congressmen ? 

Mr. Wood. Let the witness answer the questions. 

Mr. Wirin. I wasn't referring to Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I think that is all. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. Has your freedom of speech been abridged in any 
way, Mr. Corey? 

Mr. Corey. Well, it isn't — I think that probing into one's thoughts 
and conscience — I will put it this way. I believe that no one can 
bargain for the key to my brain wherein is stored multitudinous atti- 
tudes about life, religion, politics, and art. You may try to ferret it 
out against my consent, but- 



Mr. Jackson. You are afraid freedom of speech is going- 
Mr. Wirin. May he continue to answer the question? 
Mr. Jackson. No, I have heard the speech 50 times. 
Mr. Wirin. Not this one, sir. 
Mr. Jackson. The same one, with variations. That's all. 



1736 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. I have no questions. 

Mr. Corey. I seem to have worn you gentlemen out successfully. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. I have no questions, sir, but in response — I can't let it 
go unchallenged — to your opening statement here that your employ- 
ment has been interfered with by some vague reference to blacklisting 
on account of the activities of this committee, let me eall'to your 
attention the fact that if there is any obstruction in the path of your 
future employment by reason of your appearance before this com- 
mittee, we have given you as good a forum as you can possibly find to 
relieve yourself from the effect of the implication that is now in 
■everybody's mind by reason of your declining to answer the question 
that you are a member of the organizations about which you have been 
interrogated, and I just wanted to make this little observation, sir, 
and I am speaking now for myself, only. 

I don't w T ant to speak for the remaining members of this committee, 
but if, by any action of this committee, we could be instrumental in 
eliminating from the field of public entertainment the views of 
people — particularly the youth of this country being moved to a large 
extent — people who decline to answer a question as to whether or not 
they are members of the Communist Party, it would make me ex- 
tremely happy. 

Mr. Corey. May I 

Mr. Jackson. May I associate myself with that ? 

Mi-. Corky. Sir, may I make 

Mr. Wood. With that, you are excused from further attendance on 
this committee, sir. That wasn't a question, that was a statement. 

Mr. Corey. Thank you. 

Mr. Wood. Who are you calling? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mary Virginia Farmer. 

Mr. Wood. Come forward, please. 

Miss Farmer. May I ask for the privilege, as I am an actress, not to 
be televised, either in motion pictures or in still pictures? Just press 
photographs. 

Mr. Wood. Do you object to being photographed? 

Miss Farmer. Not for the press. 

Mr. Wood. Would you gentlemen withhold your pictures just a 
moment and let me administer the oath. 

You do solemnly swear that the evidence you will give this subcom- 
mittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Miss Farmer. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Will you have a seat. 

TESTIMONY OF MARY VIRGINIA FARMER, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 
COUNSEL, ROBERT KENNY AND BEN MARGOLIS 

In view of the fact that this witness, Miss Farmer, has registered 
her objection to being televised while she is testifying before this com- 
mittee, the injunction heretofore made with reference to other wit- 
nesses who have evidenced a like desire is invoked with reference to 
her. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1737 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please. 

Miss Farmer. Mary Virginia Fanner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Miss or Mrs. ? 

Miss Farmer. Miss. 

Mi-. Tavenner. Where do you now reside? 

Miss Farmer. In Van Nuys. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in California? 

Miss Farmer. Since 1936. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation or profession \ 

Miss Farmer. I am an actress. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged as an actress in 
the State of California? 

Miss Farmer. I think that I began my acting in motion pictures in 
1940, possibly. About 1940, 1941— I'm not sure which. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time how were you employed? 

Miss Farmer. My first professional engagement as an actress was in 
1921. in stock with* Jess Bonstelle, in Buffalo. My first professional 
Broadway engagement was, I think, in 1925 in a play called Stone and 
Fruit, produced by Mr. A. H. Woods. I played for various Broadway 
engagements after that. 

I came to California in 1936, as I said, through the Federal theater 
project, for which I was engaged in the East by Mr. J. Howard Miller, 
the regional director of the 11 Western States, to direct, to assist in 
production, and to establish a training and retraining system for the 
actors on the project. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee briefly what your 
general education has been. 

Miss Farmer. Yes. I went to the public schools in Montclair, N. 
J., graduated from high school. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the place of your birth ? 

Miss Farmer. No. I was born in Indianapolis, Ind. I was living 
in Montclair, N. J., with my parents and went to the public schools, 
graduated from high school there. I then traveled in the West with 
my mother, the West of this country, with my mother for a year and 
came back and went for a year to the Baldwin School, in Bryn Mawr, 
Pa., a girls' boarding school. In New York — Bryn Mawr is near 
Philadelphia, and I also studied singing in Philadelphia at that time. 

In New York, in the next several years, I added to my education 
by 2 years' study in many 'aspects of the drama in the extension sys- 
tems of Barnard College and Columbia University. I also studi ed act- 
ing with Mildred Holland at that time, a well-known retired Amer- 
ican road star, and at the studio in Carnegie Hall of the great Ger- 
man naturalistic actor, Emanuel Reicher. 

Subsequently I finished — I won't say finished my educational back- 
ground, but to bring it somewhat up to date, I did 2 years' study in 
psychology in the extension system of the University of California at 
Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned the fact that you came to California 
in connection with the Federal theater project. 

Miss Farmer. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was that date, please? , 

Miss Farmer. That was September. I went to work — I was assign- 
ed on the project and I think I went to work the day after Labor Day, 
1936. 



1738 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold a position of importance with the 
Federal theater project? 

Miss Farmer. I don't know that it was of particular importance. 
I was what is known as an administrative supervisor. That, how- 
ever, was a general title. I didn't do any kind of administration what- 
soever. I suppose that related to salary, that title. I did what I 
was brought out for. I directed plays, I instituted and taught and 
supervised some training work, actors' work, the technique of act- 
ing. And I assisted in production — in the supervision of productions, 
that is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any other duties in connection with 
your assignment to the Federal theater project other than you have 
just described? 

Miss Farmer. Not that I can remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain an official of the Federal 
theater project? 

Miss Farmer. I think it was April or May 1939. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear the testimony of Mrs. Ashe who testi- 
fied on the first clay of the hearings here in Los Angeles ? 

Miss Farmer. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Mildred Ashe. 

Miss Farmer. I heard her. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Ashe, as you recall, testified that there was a 
fraction meeting of the Communist Party within the Federal theater 
project on one occasion to her knowledge which you attended. Do 
you recall that? 

Miss Farmer. Mr. Tavenner, to this question — on this question I 
invoke my privileges under the first and fifth amendments of the Con- 
stitution and I decline to answer it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Ashe testified in substance that she was sur- 
prised and that she complained about the fact that you had been 
permitted, a person of your importance had been permitted to at- 
tend a fraction meeting of that type because of the possibility of dis- 
closure of your connection with the Communist Party. Have you 
any comments vou desire to make about her testimony with regard to 
that? 

Miss Farmer. This seems to me to be the same question from 
another angle and I decline to answer it on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Martin Berkeley, in the course of his testimony, 
identified you as a member of the Communist Party within the 
moving picture industry. "Was he truthful in that statement or 
untruthful ? 

Miss Farmer. I decline to answer this question on the same grounds 
that I have previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any knowledge of the functioning of 
the cultural commission of the Communist Party within the moving 
picture industry ? 

Miss Farmer. I decline to answer this question on the same grounds 
and for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you reside in 1937? 

Miss Farmer. In Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the address ? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1739 

Miss Farmer. No, I don't think I can give you the number. I think 
that has escaped me. I believe it was Montana Street, or something 
of that sort. 

Mr. Tavenner. Montana Avenue? 

Miss Farmer. Yes, it could be. 

Mr. Tavenner. Could 1350 be the correct address ? 

Miss Farmer. This I really don't recall. It might be. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Miss Farmer. Mr. Tavenner, as in all such questions relating to that 
organization I decline to answer, and I stand on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter, any questions? 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. No questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why this witness shouldn't be 
excused from further attendance ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Chairman, the witness has given the committee 
a statement. 

Miss Farmer. May I submit a statement ? 

Mr. Wood. It will be received, yes. 

The witness will be excused from further attendance. 

Mr. Tavenner. Louise Rousseau. 

Mr. Wood. Witness Rousseau, will you raise your right hand and 
be sworn, please. 

You do solemnty swear that the evidence you shall give this sub- 
committee shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Miss Rousseau. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF LOUISE ROUSSEAU, ACCOMPANIED BY HER COUNSEL, 
ROBERT W. KENNY AND BEN MARGOLIS 

Mr. Wood. Are you represented here by counsel, Miss Rousseau ? 

Miss Rousseau. I am. 

Mr. Wood. Will counsel please identify themselves for the record. 

Mr. Kenny. Robert W. Kenny and Ben Margolis, both of Los 
Angeles. 

Miss Rousseau. Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit a statement, 
if I may. 

Mr. Wood. Very well, the statement will be received. 

Mr. Counsel, are you ready to proceed now? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. sir, I am. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. 

Mr. Tavenner. Apparently the photographers have not yet com- 
pleted their chores. 

What is your name, please? 

Miss Rousseau. My name is Louise Rousseau. 



1740 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. Miss or Mrs.? 

Miss Rousseau. Miss. 

Mr. Tavenner. "What is your profession, please? 

Miss Rousseau. I am a writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a writer engaged in the moving-picture 
industry ? 

Miss "Rousseau. I was until I received my subpena. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name. I understand there 
is some discussion. 

Miss Rousseau. R-o-u-s-s-e-a-u. It's an old French name. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you worked in the moving-picture 
industry as a writer ? 

Miss Rousseau. Since 1943 or 1944. I'm not sure which. Some- 
where in there. 

Mr. Tavenner. What have been some of your screen credits ? 

Miss Rousseau. I write westerns as a whole. The other day I tried 
to remember them all but I found it impossible. Mostly they are 
written by a number, since they come under a series. I have written 
for Jimmy Wakely, Monte Hale, the Durango Kid, the Lone Ranger, 
and the Cisco Kid. I might say that most of these stories are based 
on actual incidents in the past relating to the struggles of the little 
people to overthrow the bigger people who try to stifle them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you make a brief statement to the committee of 
your genera] educational background, please? 

Miss Rousseau. Yes. My general educational background began 
at the knee of my grandmother, who taught me to read and to write, 
and to have 

Mr. Tavenner. It is not necessary to go into that detail. We have 
all gone through that experience. 

Miss Rousseau. This particular period happens to be the most 
important educational training of my life. She taught me family 
history. We were very proud of family history, my grandmother 
and I, because our ancestors came to this country in the year 1670 and 
they brought with them a great dream of freedom for the people 
of all beliefs. 

Mr. Tavenner.- You are going rather far afield. 

Miss Rousseau. This is rather extremely important in my educa- 
tion, because my ancestors also signed the Constitution and fought for 
the Bill of Rights. 

Mr. Jackson. The witness' answers are covered in the statement. 

Mr. Wood. Will you please answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. It would take a very long time to answer the ques- 
tion so I will ask you another question. 

Miss Rousseau. It will take a very brief time. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that you were a 
member of the Hollywood section of the Los Angeles Communist 
Party in May 1947, and that your 1947 Communist Party book was 
No. 49869. 

Miss Rousseau. Under the first amendment of the Bill of Rights 
this committee nor any other committee of Congress has the right to 
ask me that question, because 

Mr. Wood. We pass on the question of our right to ask it. The 
question is your right to answer it or not, as you see fit. What is 
your answer? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1741 

Miss Rousseau. My answer is that I stand on the fifth amendment, 
which was originally written to implement the first amendment. 

Mr. Wood. We know what it was written for. Do yon stand on the 
fifth amendment? 

Miss Rousseau. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Under that, do yon decline to answer the question? 

Miss Rousseau. I decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Wood. That simplifies the matter . 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. Is that the incorrect number of your book? 

Miss Rousseau. This is a question which I consider the same as the 
other question and I decline to answer it. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Any other questions by counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir, there are not. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be ex- 
cused from further attendance? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. It is so ordered. 

The committee will stand in recess for 15 minutes pending the ap- 
pearance of the witness that was called a little while ago. 

(Whereupon a recess was taken at this point.) 

Mr. Wood. Let us have order. Are vou readv to proceed, Mr. Coun- 
sel? 

Mr. Tayen ner. Yes, sir. I would like to call Dr. Murray Abowitz. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Abowitz, would you raise your right hand and be 
sworn, please, sir. You do solemnly swear the evidence you give this 
subcommittee will be the truth, the whole, truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Dr. Abowttz. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Dr. Abowitz, are you represented here by counsel ? 

Dr. Abowitz. Mr. Kenny. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kenny of the Los Angeles Bar ? 

Mr. Kenny. Right. 

Mr. Wood. During the progress of your interrogation, you are 
privileged to confer with your counsel as often as you may desire. 

Dr. Abowitz. Thank you. 

Mr. Wood. You may seek any information or advice that you deem 
available to yon. Your counsel is familiar with the rules and will 
give you his advice. 

Dr. Abowitz. Mr. Chairman, may I request that I not be televised? 

Mr. Wood. Yes, sir. and your request will be respected. 

Dr. Abowitz. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Wood. The television cameras are requested to refrain from 
televising Dr. Abowitz during his testimony. Do you object to the 
pictures, Doctor? 

Dr. Abowitz. Well, they are very annoying. 



1742 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Wood. I will ask them to suspend a little bit. All right, pro- 
ceed now. 

TESTIMONY OF DR. MURRAY ABOWITZ, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, ROBERT W. KENNY 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 

Dr. Abowitz. Dr. Murray Abowitz, A-b-o-w-i-t-z. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born. Dr. Abowitz? 

Dr. Abowitz. In New York City, 1911. That is, in Brooklyn, New 
York City, 1911. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ? 

Dr. Abowitz. I am a physician ; M. D. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a specialist in any field? 

Dr. Abowitz. In internal medicine. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are engaged in the practice of your profession 
in Los Angeles ? 

Dr. Abowitz. Yes, sir, I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you practiced medicine here ? 

Dr. Abowitz. About 9 years ; possibly 10. Between 9 and 10 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time where did you live ? 

Dr. Abowitz. Here in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. In Los Angeles. Are you a native of California ? 

Dr. Abowitz. By adoption, only ; not by birth. Having been born 
outside of California, I can be a native only by choice, and I have so 
chosen. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, thank you for reminding me of that. Are you 
the husband of Mrs. Ellenore Abowitz who has testified here yes- 
terday ? 

Dr. Abowitz. Yes, sir, I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us very briefly your educational 
background. 

Dr. Abowitz. I was educated in the city of New York public schools, 
high school, and college, and I had my medical training in the Univer- 
sity of Vienna in 1932 to 1937, and after that I came out here to Los 
Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Abowitz, you are acquainted with the purposes 
of this investigation, I think? 

Dr. Abowitz. I am, but I can't say that I agree with them. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand. During the course of the testimony 
here we have learned that you were a member of the Communist 
Party, and if that is true you should be in a position to give this 
committee valuable advice and information relating to the extent of 
Communist infiltration into the moving picture industry and in this 
community. I refer you to testimony which was introduced in exec- 
utive session before this committee a few days ago. Dr. Krieger — 
M. Krieger testified in executive session and was asked about the 
homes where Communist Party meetings were held or, at least, homes 
in which he had met with Communist groups and, according to his 
testimony, he recalled the name of one. He was asked this question, 
"What is the name of the only individual you do remember?" 

Dr. Krieger. It was a physician by the name of Murray Abowitz. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1743 

Then he proceeded to state that Mrs. Ellenore Abowitz was the 
chairman of the particular group or cell. Now, with regard to your- 
self, I would like to ask you first the question whether or not Dr. 
Krieger was telling the truth when he stated he met in a Communist 
Party meeting in your home and knew you as a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Dr. Abowitz. Mr. Tavenner, because the Communist Party has 
been listed by this committee as a subversive organization I must claim 
the privilege of the fifth amendment and decline to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Wood. You don't have to do that. You are under no com- 
pulsion. The question is whether you do do it or not, not whether 
you must. 

Dr. Abowitz. I have an inner compulsion to do so, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Acting under that, do you do it ? 

Dr. Abowitz. I so do. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you married, Dr. Krieger ? 

Dr. Abowitz. The name is Abowitz. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Abowitz. 

Dr. Abbowitz. August 14, 1945. Yes, I remember because it was 
V J Day, and for other reasons I recall it, too. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you also remember whether or not your wife, 
Mrs. Abowitz, was employed in any capacity by counsel who is now 
representing you? 

Dr. Abowitz. I have no such recollection. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information, Doc- 
tor, that a prospectus for the 1944 winter term of the People's Edu- 
cational Center, and also a prospectus for the 1947 winter term of 
the same school listed you as one of the school instructors. I would 
like to ask you some questions relating to your connection and service 
there, if it be a fact that you were an instructor. Were you such an 
instructor ? 

Dr. Abowitz. For the same reasons, that this organization has also 
been listed by this committee, I must decline to answer that question, 
also. 

Mr. Wood. Dr. Abowitz, that isn't a complete answer, because we 
are entitled to an answer unless you decline to do so, for any reason 
you may give. To say you must do it is not an answer. It is a ques- 
tion of what you do do. 

Dr. Abowitz. I think the record would show, Mr. Chairman, that 
I decline. « 

Mr. Wood. You said you must decline. 

Dr. Abowitz. Well, it is a choice of words. I feel compelled to do 
so out of necessity to avoid testifying against myself. 

Mr. Wood. Then you do do it? 

Dr. Abowitz. And also to avoid destroying what I think are some 
of the sacred things in this country. 

Mr. Wood. Nevertheless, from the standpoint of legal procedure 
this committee is entitled to an answer or a declination to answer. 
Now, which do you do? 

Dr. Abowitz. I decline to answer that question for the reasons 
stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of, or have you been affiliated 
with the American-Soviet Medical Society? 



1744 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Dr. Abowitz. For the same reasons I must decline to answer the 
questions, and I so do decline, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to a letterhead of the Hollywood Inde- 
pendent Citizens Committee of the Arts, Sciences and Professions, 
dated December 10, 1946, you were listed as a member of the execu- 
tive council of that organization; is that correct? 

Dr. Abowitz. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a candidate for election to the executive 
board of the southern California chapter of the Progressive Citizens 
of America in 1947? 

Dr. Abowitz. For the same grounds I decline to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I show you a photostatic copy of a ballot for the 
election of officers for the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council of 
September 1947. The first candidate listed for election to the execu- 
tive board there appears to be Dr. Murray xlbowitz. Will you examine 
the document and state who is listed? 

Dr. Abowitz. I beg your pardon? 

Mr. Tavenner. I say, will you examine the document and state 
who is listed on it as the first candidate for election to the executive 
board ? 

Dr. Abowitz. I see my name there for alphabetical reasons, 
apparently. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a candidate for election ? 

Dr. Abowitz. I am afraid I must give you the same answer for 
the same reasons, Mr. Counsel. I decline to answer on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I show you a photostatic copy of a circular of the 
medical council executive board of the Progressive Citizens of Amer- 
ica. On this circular you are listed as the executive secretary. Do 
you see your name listed there as executive secretary ? 

Dr. Abowitz. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you the executive secretary of that organiza- 
tion ? 

Dr. Abowitz. For the same reasons I must give you the same an- 
swer, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. I show you a photostatic copy of an article that 
appeared on page 3 of the People's Daily World of November 6, 1948. 
In this article it is said that a number of people urged dismissal of 
contempt charges against certain persons, referred to as political 
prisoners. Among those listed as urging the dismissal of the con- 
tempt proceedings is Dr. Murray Abowitz. I would like to ask you 
this question: If you were properly listed as being one of those who 
urged the dismissal of the contempt proceedings, will you state the 
circumstances under which the listing of your name was secured? 

Dr. Abowitz (after conferring with counsel). Because of the fact 
that the Civil Rights Congress, which apparently sponsored that 
item, lias been listed by your committee as a so-called subversive or- 
ganization, I must give you the same answer, Mr. Counselor, and 
decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Civil Rights Congress? 

Dr. Abowitz. That is a similar question, and the answer is the 
same, Mr. Counselor. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1745 

Mr. Tavenner. I show you a photostatic copy of a program of a 
conference on the subject of thought control in the United States pre- 
sented by the Hollywood Arts, Sciences and Professions Council of 
the Progressive Citizens of America. According to this program Dr. 
Murray Abowitz was a member of a panel on health and medicine. I 
would like to ask you, if you did serve on such a panel, who it was 
that solicited you to do it and the circumstances under which you were 
solicited. 

Dr. Abowitz. For the same reasons, the same answer, Mr. Counselor. 

Mr. Tayenxer. I show you a photostatic copy of a call to a bill-of - 
rights conference held at the Henry Hudson Hotel, New York City, 
July 16 and 17, 1949, by the Civil Rights Congress. You are listed 
as one of the sponsors. Would you advise the committee the circum- 
stances under which your sponsorship was solicited and obtained? 

Dr. Abowitz. Because this was sponsored by the Civil Rights Con- 
gress 1 must give you the same answer. I think the bill-of-rights 
conference, however, would be most appropriate. We still have a 
part of it left. 

( The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. According to a photostatic copy of a letterhead of 
the Conference of Peaceful Alternatives to the Atlantic Pact, dated 
August 21, 19 

Dr. Abow t itz. It must be 1950, Mr. Counselor. 

Mr. Tavenner. Forty-nine, you are listed as one of the signers. 
Will you examine it, please, and state the circumstances under which 
your signature was obtained. 

Dr. Abowitz. Has that organization been listed by this committee, 
or smeared by this committee, as subversive ? Most organizations that 
have worked for peace in the past few years have been so listed. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you are asking me whether it has been smeared 
by this committee, I will not hesitate to say it has not. 

Dr. Abowitz. I am sorry. I will withdraw that. Has it been so 
listed ? I really didn't mean that. 

Mr. Tavenner. It has been cited as a Communist-front organization. 

Dr. Abowitz. Thank you, Mr. Counsel. Therefore, for the previ- 
ously stated reason, I must withdraw 

Mr. Wood. At this point, isn't it proper to observe that it has been 
cited as such by the Attorney General of the United States? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir ; I think not. 

Dr. Abowitz. And decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I show you a photostatic copy of page 2 of the Daily 
People's World of June 19, 1951. In the left-hand column there is a 
news item to the effect that a number of persons have signed a brief 
to be filed in the Supreme Court of the United States, urging a re- 
hearing of the conviction of the 11 Communist Party leaders. The 
article further says that a number of individuals had written President 
Truman letters on behalf of the convicted Communist Party leaders. 
Dr. Murray Abowitz is listed as one of those who wrote the President. 
Now, please do not misunderstand me. I am not undertaking to criti- 
cize by inference or otherwise any person who writes the President 
on matters which he has in mind, but what the committee is interested 
in is whether or not the writing of such letters was promoted by a par- 
ticular line of the Communist Party and the extent to which this is part 



1746 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

of the Communist plan, so I would ask you that if you did write the 
President as indicated in that news item to tell the committee the 
circumstances which led up to your writing it. 

Dr. Abowitz. That is a loaded question similar to the one which I 
had used and I withdraw it and, for that reason, I must decline to 
answer it on the ground of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Wood. Do you so decline ? 

Dr. Abowitz. I so do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a candidate for election to the executive 
board of the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council in 1951 ? 

Dr. Abowitz. I decline to answer that on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you made a contribution of money to the Arts, 
Sciences and Professions Council within the past 60 days ? 

Dr. Abowitz. For the same reasons I decline to answer that ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of a check dated 
August the 3d, 1951, purportedly signed by Murray Abowitz. I 
ask you if that is your signature. 

Dr. Abowitz. It resembles it strongly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you identify that as your signature? 

Dr. Abowitz. I think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, is there any doubt in your mind but what that 
is your signature ? 

Dr. Abowitz. Well, I usually have an M. D. after it, but sometimes 
I perhaps omit it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I wish you would examine it carefully and 
see who the payee is on the check and any notations that appear on it 
that might refresh your recollection as to whether or not it is actually 
your check. Who is the check payable to, as shown on its face \ 

Dr. Abowitz. I will show you the photostatic copy and you can read 
it, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have seen it. I am asking you to do it. 

Dr. Abowitz. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you turn the check over and read the endorse- 
ment stamped on the back. 

Dr. Abowitz. It has a large "11" on there and "Pay to the order 
of Security-First National Bank of Los Angeles, Arts, Sciences and 
Professions Council." 

Mr. Tavenner. Did that represent a donation to the Arts, Sciences 
and Professions Council made by you ? 

Dr. Abowitz. Because that information has been listed by you, un- 
fortunately, as a subversive organization, I must decline to answer 
that on the ground of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the photostatic copy of the check in 
evidence and ask that it be marked "Exhibit Murray Abowitz No. 
1," please. 1 

Mr. Jackson. To whom was the check made out? 

Mr. Wood. That will be so entered. 

1 See appendix printed in separate volume. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1747 

(The check referred to appeared in words and figures as follows:) 

Murray Abowitz, M. D. No. 1714 

6333 Wilshire Boulevard 8/3/51 

Los Angeles 48, Calif. 
York 8233 

Pay to the order of ASP $25. 00 

Twenty-five and no/0 Dollars 

Wilshire-Crescent Heights Branch 16-329 

6301 Wilshire Boulevard. 
Bank of America 

National Trust and Savings Association 
Los Angeles, Calif. 

( Signed ) Murray Abowitz. 

[The following words and figures appeared on the back of said check:] 

11 Pay to the order of 11 

Security First National Bank of Los Angeles 

Art, Sciences and Professions Council 

Mr. Tavenner. The check bears date of August the 3d, 1951, payable 
to the order of ASP, in the amount of $25, signed by Murray Abowitz 
and an endorsement which has already been read. 

Will you state to the committee the purpose for the raising of funds 
by that organization? That is, the Southern California Chapter of 
the Arts, Sciences and Professions Council. 

Dr. Abowitz. I decline to answer that question on the same ground, 
Mr. Counselor. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information, Dr. 
Abowitz, that you attended a meeting of the Medical Division of the 
Arts, Sciences and Professions on August 12, 1951, at the home of 
Dr. Alexander Pennes, P-e-n-n-e-s, in Los Angeles; that Dr. Leo 
Bigelman, Dr. Max Schoen were present along with a number of 
other members of the organization. Do you recall that meeting? 

Dr. Abowitz. Inasmuch as it again relates to ASP, I must decline 
on the same grounds. 

Mr. Wood. And do you so decline ? 

Dr. Abowitz. I do so decline. 

Mr. TaveInner. The committee is in possession of information that 
there was held, also, at that same address, another meeting on August 
the 17th of 1951, the purpose of which was to discuss matters relating 
to this hearing, and that at this meeting it was agreed that a picket 
line around the building should be maintained, that a crowded hear- 
ing room should be maintained, that the witnesses would stand on the 
fifth amendment, that letters should be sent to all members of the medi- 
cal and dental associations showing that this committee's investigation 
is not an attack on individuals but an attack on the entire medical 
and dental professions ; that the services of competent counsel should 
be secured and that a sizable sum of money be donated for the purpose 
of defraying the expense of newspaper advertisements, leaflets, pam- 
phlets, brochures to show the members of the ASP appearing before 
this committeee in a favorable light, and to take care of counsel fees. 
Will you state whether or not that action was taken at the meeting to 
which I referred, or any other meeting of that organization '. 

Dr. Abowitz. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the 
fifth amendment. I think, Mr. Counsel, if I may state at this point, 
that it is becoming obvious that a shameful piece of espionage and 
spying has been going on. 

81595— 51— pt. 5 8 



1748 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. Then there must be some basis. 

Mr. Jackson. This is called counterespionage. 

Dr. Abowitz. I resent that insinuation. 

Mr. Jackson. That is no insinuation. 

Dr. Abowitz. Well, it is an insulting remark. 

Mr. Wood. If you will just confine your answers to the questions 
asked it will simplify the hearing considerably. 

Mr. Tavenner. Xow, Communist-front organizations, by the very 
terms under which they are described, denotes that they are com- 
posed of persons who are both members of the Communist Party and 
nonmembers of the Communist Party. Many instances have been 
shown where people have been induced, either as the result of their 
own culpability or their own carelessness, into organizations which 
otherwise they would not have joined, so in referring to that I am 
going to mention — I am not intending to infer that any of them are 
members of the Communist Party other than those who already have 
been shown to be by the evidence introduced at this hearing, but I 
would like to ask you whether or not the following-named persons are 
members of the Southern California Chapter of the Arts, Sciences 
and Professions Council. 

Mr. John Howard Lawson? 

Dr. Abowitz. I decline to answer that on the same grounds, Mr. 
Counselor. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Abraham Isserman, I-s-s-e-r-m-a-n? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. William Esterman? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Herta Uerkvitz? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. U-e-r-k-v-i-t-z. Now, Sarajo Lord, whose name ap- 
peared as the executive secretary on the letters with which the medical 
and dental associations were circularized 

Dr. Abowitz. I'm sorry, I didn't hear that last question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Sarajo Lord, whose name appears as executive sec- 
retary of the organization at the foot of the letter with which the 
medical and dental professions were circularized. 

Dr. Abowitz. Well, the reason that you are trying to link me with 
an organization which you have labeled "subversive," I must continue 
to decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. P. Price Cobbs? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Drusilla Baetache? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Jane Dawson. 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavennner. Ann Wallace? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Lee Bachelis? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Charles Glenn? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Elaine Glenn? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Herbert Biberman? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1749 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Annette Kalish? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Lee Blank? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. June Fields? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Manuel Concepcion? 

Dr. Abowitz. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Dr. Abowitz. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment and for the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Wood. Do you so decline? 

Dr. Abowitz. And I so decline. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. I yield to the members of the committee now. Mr. 
Walter I 

Mr. Walter. Doctor, do you know Dr. Krieger? 

Dr. Abowitz. I was asked that question previously, sir. 

Mr. Walter. No, you weren't. 

Dr. Abowitz. I must decline to answer on the same grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Walter. Dr. Krieger is not a Communist. Why do you think 
that an admission of knowing him would in any wise implicate you 
in criminal proceedings ? 

Dr. Abowitz. I decline to state my reasons, Mr. Congressman. 

Mr. Walter. But you decline to answer the question of whether or 
not you knew him ? 

Dr. Abowitz. That is correct. 

Mr. Walter. That's all. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. Only one request, but no questions, Mr. Chairman. 
It seems to me that this might be a good place to insert the letter 
which was circularized among the doctors and dentists of the county 
at this point in the record, together with the repudiation of the county 
medical association of any connection with the Arts, Sciences, and 
Professions Council. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I did that in connection with the 
testimony of another witness, his wife Ellenore. We have several of 
them. If you would like to put it in again 

Mr. Jackson. I don't think there is any necessity of duplicating 
it, Imt it seems to me it would 

Mr. Tavenner. It is already on exhibit. 

Mr. Jackson. It seems to be more apropos to the testimony of this 
witness than that of his wife. 

Mr. Wood. I will direct that it be inserted in both instances. 

(The letter above referred to, written by the Southern California 
Chapter of the National Council of the Arts, Sciences and Professions 
is as follows:) 

Dear Doctor : The House Committee on Un-Ameriean Activities is coming to 
Los Angeles on September 17. Ordinarily, such an event would not bring forth 
a letter to you. However, in this instance, we feel you will be concerned, because 



1750 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

the committee has subpenaecl a large number of professional people of this city, 
including writers, actors, physicians, dentists, as well as others. 

This House committee has au infamous record. Its first chairman was the 
notorious Martin Dies, who initiated this committee's partisan-political smear 
technique. Its next chairman, J. Parnell Thomas, recently served a prison sen- 
tence for misuse of Government funds. The present chairman, Congressman 
Wood, reveals his contempt of Americanism with the observation that the threats 
and intimidations of the Ku Klux Klan are an old American custom. 

The committee, at the cost of over $1 million to the American taxpayer, has 
concerned itself almost exclusively with intimidating, smearing by innuendo, and 
depriving of their livelihoods liberal-minded people whose views run counter to 
those of the committee. At no time has the professional competence and integrity 
of the subpenaed people been questioned. 

This committee is not an impartial investigating body. It has prejudged 
ideas, organizations, and people, as shown by its listing as subversive over 200 
publications, and over 600 organizations without proper investigation or hearing. 

The committee has spent 4 years investigating Hollywood. As a result, many 
fine people have lost their jobs for refusal to cooperate in what they consider 
to be the destruction of our democratic rights. It is common knowledge that 
these actions have led to a deterioration of motion-picture content. Fear per- 
vades the entire industry — fear of acting in, or writing, or producing, or directing 
anything that in the remotest way might be considered subversive by this 
committee. 

In conducting its investigations this committee has consistently violated 
the first and fifth amendments to the Constitution. These amendments guarantee 
not only the right to speak, write, and think freely, but also the right to remain 
silent about one's beliefs. The fifth amendment, which provides that no person 
shall be compelled to be a witness against himself, is fundamental to our de- 
mocracy. It was intended to protect the individual from being forced by the 
Government to reveal his political or religious views, and thus subject himself 
to persecution and prosecution, as indulged in by this committee. 

Any person who does not insist on this right before the committee would ac- 
tually be helping to open the way for political and religious persecutions and thus 
destroy the foundations of democracy. 

We urge you, therefore, to follow closely the proceedings of this committee 
when it comes here, so that you may see for yourself its un-American, antidemo- 
cratic conduct. We urge you to write your protests to the chairman, Representa- 
tive Wood, House Office Building, Washington, D. C. and to Representative Jack- 
son and Doyle who are the California Congressmen on this committee. We 
welcome your financial and moral support in the fight to defend these men and 
women, and in so doing, to protect the rights of all. 
Sincerely yours, 

Sarajo Lord, 
Executive Director, Southern California Chapter of the National Council 
of the Arts, Sciences and Professions. 

(The following letter from J. M. de los Reyes, M. D., chairman, 
Public Relations, Los Angeles County Medical Association was sent 
in reply to the letter immediately preceding, and reads as follows:) 

It has been alleged by the Arts, Sciences, and Professions Council that a facet 
of the Communist investigation by the House Committee on Un-American Ac- 
tivities constitutes an attack against the medical profession. The Los Angeles 
County Medical Association, i-epresenting nearly 5,000 doctors of medicine which 
constitutes the majority of the doctors of medicine in the county of Los Angeles, 
welcomes any investigation of communism or Communist front activities regard- 
less of where they exist, and does not feel that this or similar investigations are 
now and can conceivably become an attack in any way upon the medical pro- 
fession. The American Medical Association, the California Medical Association, 
and the Los Angeles County Medical Association, by their actions and loyalty 
oaths, have shown unequivocally their support of the American way of life. 

Approved : 

Paul d. Foster, 
Secretary-Treasurer, Los Angeles County Medical Association. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1751 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Any reason why this witness shouldn't be excused from 
further attendance on the committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. It is so ordered. 

The subcommittee will now stand in recess until 10 o'clock, Monday 
of next week. 

(Whereupon at the hour of 3 : 45 p. m. an adjournment was taken in 
the above hearings until the hour of 10 a. m., Monday, September 24, 
1951 at the same place.) 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF HOLLYWOOD MOTION 
PICTURE INDUSTRY— PART 5 



monday, september 24, 1951 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

on Un-American Activities, 

Los Angeles, Calif. 

PUBLIC hearing 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met 
pursuant to adjournment at 10 : 15 a. m. in room 518, Federal Build- 
ing, Los Angeles, Calif., Hon. Francis E. Walter (chairman), pre- 
siding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter 
(chairman), Clyde Doyle, Donald L. Jackson, and Charles E. Potter. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Thomas W. 
Beale, Sr., assistant counsel; Louis J. Russell, senior investigator; 
William A. Wheeler, investigator; John W. Carrington, clerk. 

Mr. Walter. The committee will be in order. 

Mr. Tavenner, who is your first witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Carl Foreman. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Foreman, will you raise your right hand. Do 
you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the 
whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Foreman. I do. 

Mr. Walter. Be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF CARL FOREMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

SIDNEY COHN 

• 

Mr. Walter. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Carl Foreman ? 

Mr. Foreman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Foreman ? 

Mr. Foreman. I was born on July 23, 1901, in Chicago, 111., 1914, 
I beg your pardon. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Foreman. I reside in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Los Angeles? 

Mr. Foreman. I believe that I have lived here since 1937 or 1938, 
sir, with the exception of the time that I was in the armed services. 

Mr. Walter. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Air. Foreman. Yes, sir; I am. 

1753 



1754 COMMUNISM IN MOTION- PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Walter. Will counsel please identify himself. 

Mr. Cohn. Sidney Colin, New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state for the committee in a general way 
what your educational background has been ? 

Mr. Foreman. Yes, sir. I was educated in the public schools of 
Chicago. I attended high school there. I attended Crane Junior 
College, which was a city college, where I majored in journalism. I 
attended the University of Illinois, where I majored in journalism. I 
also attended the John Marshall Law School for a brief period, and 
Northwestern University. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession? 

Mr. Foreman. I am a writer, sir, basically for motion pictures. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you engaged in that activity ? 

Mr. Foreman. Since 1940, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee a brief statement of 
your record of employment or association since you became a writer. 

Mr. Foreman. Yes, sir. I entered the industry, I believe, in 1940, 
when I sold a motion-picture story to the Monogram Studios for Bela 
Lugosi and the Dead End Kids, and it was called Spooks Run Wild, 
I think, and 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you raise your voice a little bit. 

Mr. Foreman. It is now being shown on television. Surely. 

Mr. Tavenner. Thank you. 

Mr. Foreman. I had a very difficult time entering the industry. It 
is very difficult to become a writer in Hollywood or become anything 
else in Hollywood. I had been here for some 2 or 3 years previously, 
trying very hard to become a motion-picture writer, learning how to 
get in. At the time I sold this story, I think I was working at Techni- 
color, and I was run over on my way to work, and it was while I was 
in bed recuperating that another writer came to me and told me they 
were looking for this type of story. I had written one some years 
previously, and having the time, lying in bed, we were able to work it 
out into something acceptable, and we received $425 for the original 
story and the screen play, to be divided among ourselves. I did two 
more pictures for Monogram. I got $300 for the next one, and I de- 
cided that perhaps in order to make a living, since it was very hard to 
make a living working for that kind of independent, I had best try 
something else, and I then went into radio, did several radio shows 
as a writer of comedies. That is, comedy radio shows. In 1942 I 
felt that I couldn't be happy in radio. It was very hard to be a gag 
man. I was losing my hair, and I was able to get back into motion 
pictures at Metro-Gold wyn-Mayer. I remained at Metro-Goldwyn- 
Mayer until 1943 when I went into the Army. I was in the Army until 
late 1945 or early 1946, when I returned. 

I worked at RKO, and then, with some other young men who owned 
another company, formed a company of our own, and I have since 
been employed and a member of that company. It is the Stanley 
Kramer Co. Would you like to know what I have written in recent 
years? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, I would like to know what your principal 
screen credits have been. 

Mr. Foreman. Well, within recent years I have written a picture 
called Champion, Home of the Brave, The Men, Cyrano de Bergerac, 
Young Man With a Horn, and I am currently engaged in writing 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1755 

and I am an associate producer of a picture called High Noon, star- 
ring Gary Cooper. I am a little bit embarrassed about this because 
you had some young ladies on the stand last week who said they wrote 
westerns and this is a western. 

Mr. Tavenner. You shouldn't be embarrassed about that. 

Mr. Foreman. I understand. 

Mr. Tavenner. There are many very good lady writers. 

Mr. Foreman. Oh, of course. No, no. It was just that everybody 
up here Friday, you know, was a lady engaged in the writing of 
westerns, and this happens to be a western. It is the story of a town 
that died because it lacked the moral fiber to withstand aggression. 
It is a suspense story, and I hope it will be a good one. Would you 
like to — would you care to know of other duties I have at this time, 
sir, what else I am doing? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. What are your duties ? 

Mr. Foreman. Well, in addition to, as I say, writing High Noon 
and being an associate producer, I am also a producer or will produce 
several other motion pictures through our company at Columbia 
Studios. These are The Happy Time, a Broadway play by Samuel 
Taylor, to be directed by Richard Fleischer; a novel by John Fante 
called Full of Life, which will be directed by a member of our com- 
pany, Edward Dmytryk, and one or two other stories. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Foreman, during the course of this investiga- 
tion Mr. Martin Berkeley appeared here as one of the witnesses, and 
in the course of the testimony he referred to you as having been a 
member of the Communist Party. This is what he said in regard 
to you : 1 

And Carl Foreman- 
referring to j^ou as a member of the Communist Party — 

I believe he wrote the screen play of Cyrano de Bergerac and the Champion 
and other very fine pictures. 

Then I asked this question : 

Let me ask you a question here. Does Mr. Foreman hold any position, to your 
knowledge, with the Screen Writers' Guild V 

Mr. Berkeley. I am glad you asked me that, sir, because that is very im- 
portant. I said before that there was only one Communist — let me repbrase 
that. There is in the guild today only one man I know who was ever a Com- 
munist. This man has never, to my knowledge, disavowed his communism. His 
name is Carl Foreman, the man I just mentioned. He is the only one left on 
our board. I hope he appears here, sir, and clears himself, because it will help 
me to clear the guild, and that is a job I want to do. 

Now, I would like to ask you whether the statement of Mr. Berkeley 
is correct, first, that you were at one time a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Foreman (after conferring with counsel). I decline to answer 
that, sir, on the grounds it violates my privileges under the first and 
fifth amendments of the Constitution. However, if you wish me to 
go on with Mr. Berkeley's statement I should like to say this 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. I asked you no further question. 

Mr. Cohn. Mr. Tavenner, I don't think 

Mr. Foreman. Mr. Tavenner ? 



1 See p. 1590. 



1756 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. I think I should give you an opportunity to answer 
most any question relating to your activities and if I have failed to 
ask you any question which would bring forth any fact regarding 
you I shall not object to your statement. 

Mr. Foreman. Then may I go on to say that on September 11, 1950, 
I voluntarily signed an oath as a member of the executive board of 
the Screen Writers' Guild that I was not a member of the Communist 
Party, nor of any party dedicated to the overthrow of the United 
States Government by force and violence. That statement was true 
at that time, sir, and is true today. 

Mr. Walter. When was that ? 

Mr. Foreman. On or about — I am pretty sure it was September 11, 
1950, sir. I have said that the statement was true then — it was a 
voluntary statement- — and it is true today, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any time between 1945 and 1950, the time 
of the taking of the oath which you mentioned, when you were not 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Foreman. Would you repeat that question, sir ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any time between 1945 and September 
11, 1950, when you stated you took the oath that you were not a 
Communist, when you were not a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Foreman. I decline to answer that, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated you went into the Armed Forces, I 
believe, in 1943. 

Mr. Foreman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. It has been testified here by Mr. Leo Townsend that 
he was a member of the Communist Party prior to entry into the 
service, but that the Communist Party had a regulation which elim- 
inated them or dropped them from membership while in the armed 
services. Did that regulation apply to you ? 

Mr. Cohn. May we confer for a moment, please ? 

Mr. Foreman (after conferring with counsel) . Mr. Tavenner, I have 
already told you that I am not a Communist, and I am not prepared to 
comment on Mr. Townsend's testimony. 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked you whether or not the regulation which Mr. 
Townsend referred to applied to you, that you were dropped. In 
other words, that you were dropped from the Communist Party dur- 
ing the period of your service in the Army. 

Mr. Foreman (after conferring with counsel). I don't have any 
knowledge of any such regulation, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at 
any time while you were in the armed services ? 

Mr. Foreman. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner, you stated a moment ago that you would be very 
happy for me to give you any information that might help the record, 
and I wonder if I could at this time, for your information, and for 
the information of the committee, read to you two commendations 
which I received while I served in the Army, which testifies to my 
services in the Army. 1 

Mr. Tavenner. 1 think it would be perfectly proper for you to 
state that you were commended while in the armed services, if that 
occurred. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1757 

Mr. Foreman. Well, they are so short, and they make such good 
reading, I think in fairness to me you might possibly let me read 
them. 

I have a commendation here, sir, from Maj. Gen. F. H. Osborne, 
which reads as follows : 

1. One of the most effective and consistent activities in the motion-picture 
program produced for this division of the Army Pictorial Service has been the 
production of Private Snafu and Quick Fact series of animated cartoons re- 
leased through the Army-Navy Screen Magazine. 

2. Warmest commendation is extended to all of those officers and men who 
had a part in developing and carrying through this film program, including 
Sgt. Carl Foreman. 

3. Sergeant Foreman may be justly proud of his part in our common victory. 
As a soldier assigned to tasks far from combat areas, he sometimes may have 
felt that his general contribution to the general effort was less than he would 
have wished it. His has been the thankless job of working on projects whose 
results he could not see or measure for himself. He has done that job magnifi- 
cently. The motion pictures that he and a handful of his fellow soldiers 
have produced have entertained and instructed millions of soldiers all over 
the world — an achievement that few soldiers can match. 

I have a very brief commendation, sir, which reads as follows : 

1. During tin 1 past 2 1 /- 2 months Sgt. Carl N. Foreman has been detailed to the 
■ undersigned officer in connection with the feature-length project No. 3803, en- 
titles "Westward Is Bataan." 

2. Sergeant Foreman's services, in connection with assisting the production 
with this feature picture, has been outstanding. He has, at all times, performed 
his duties with exceptional zeal, initiative, and skill. 

3. It is felt that Sergeant Foreman deserves special commendation for his 
services and it is further recommended that Sergeant Foreman be promoted 
to the next higher grade. 

This is signed by Col. Howard W. Mixon. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the date? 

Mr. Foreman. September 5, 1944. The date on the other was the 
16th of October 1945. I later received the Army Commendation 
Ribbon on the basis of the commendation from General Osborne. 

Mr. Tavenxek. Were you a member of the Communist Party at 
that time? 

Mr. Foreman. Mr. Tavenner, I have already declined to answer 
that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you return from the armed services? 

Mr. Foreman. I am not quite sure, sir. I think it was late 1945 or 
early 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. Upon your return from the armed services in 1945 
did you affiliate with the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Foreman. I decline to answer that, Mr. Tavenner, on the 
grounds stated prior. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1947 the committee is informed, or has ascer- 
tained from a leaflet of the People's Educational Center, that you 
were an instructor at the spring term ; is that correct? 

Mr. Foreman. Mr. Tavenner, I decline to answer that because, as 
you know, the People's Educational Center has been mentioned in 
these hearings. I would like you to know for the record, however, sir, 
inasmuch as I had such great difficulty becoming a motion-picture 
writer, that I have devoted myself to teaching screen writing wherever 
and whenever I can at a great many kinds of schools and wherever I 
can. I felt that this was the least I could do. It is very hard to be- 
come a writer at the studios. 



1758 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. When you engaged in the conducting of those 
courses that you made reference to were you a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Foreman. I decline to answer that, sir. on the grounds stated 
above. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Martin Berkeley, in the course of his testimony, 
stated that you had not, so far as he knew, made a public renunciation 
of your Communist Party membership. Had you at any time publicly 
renounced your membership in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Foreman. Mr. Tavenner, may we confer for a moment, my 
counsel and I ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Foreman. Mr. Tavenner, without commenting on Mr. Berke- 
ley's testimony in any way, and on the grounds that I have mentioned 
before, but in order to get the record clear, if I may, I think you will 
remember that this portion of Mr. Berkeley's testimony he also said 
that people like Adele Buffington, Allen Rivkin, Leonard Spiegelgass, 
and Karl Tunberg deserve a vote of thanks for cleaning out the guild, 
for helping the guild, and so forth. So I think it highly germane, if 
you will allow me, sir, to read to you a letter which I received on May 
24, 1951, from Miss Adele Buffington, whom I am sure is known to you 
and the committee. 

Do I have your permission, sir? 

Mr. Walter. Go ahead and read the letter. 

Mr. Foreman. She writes : 

Dear Carl — 

I should explain that this letter was written at a time during our 
contract negotiations with the major producers and, as you know, 
during contract negotiations spirits run very high with possible ex- 
citement and everybody is worried about their just rights being pro- 
tected. Miss Buffington writes as follows : 

Dear Carl : Attached is a copy of my Notes and Analysis on the contract situa- 
tion which you said would help you, now that you realize what has happened, 
beyond your own board experiences in the matter. 

If it seems like a long document, it is because of the necessary, clarifying 
detail involved. Also, I have made it a rule to document my guild activities and 
my relative opinions as expressed openly on account of an awareness of how vul- 
nerable to intraguild attack my personal position continues to be. 

Thanks again for assisting my guild efforts before the board in the past, and 
for anything you can now do to help the "little guy" in the guild in this incred- 
ible situation. Personally I am discouraged as hell and worn out carrying 
this torch. I suppose I ought to get smart and pitch it overboard before I starve 
to death myself or someone does "poison" me, per the fervent wish of one cer- 
tain board member. 

It doesn't mean me. 

Perhaps I will. 

Anyway, please know it is gratifying to realize that it's possible for indi- 
viduals like you and me to ignore political and personal difference in mutual 
concern for the welfare of the guild. 
Sincerely, 

Adele Buffington. 

And this Mr. Tavenner 



Mr. Tavenner. What was the date? 
Mr. Foreman. May 24, 1951, sir. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1759 

And I have here a memo from Allen Kivkin, who is the president 
of the Motion Picture Industry Council, an organization I know you 
are familiar with, which is dated November 22, 194;>. and Allen writes 
as follows — this was in connection with a public-relations program 
for the guild : 

Gael : I can't tell you how pleased I am that you will be ou the public-relations 
pitch with us. I told Gielgud this morning and he was overjoyed. He will call 
you to get together with himself and Frank Nugent between now and next Mon- 
day so we can get the rest of the committee organized for the board's approval. 
I have some ideas of a newsletter monthly to the membership that Irwin will 
tell you about. Nugent will tell you what ideas we have on the awards affair 
for the last of January. Those are our two immediate projects — plus pick- 
ing a hot special programs subcommittee with a vice chairman on it that has 
some ideas. Again, my appreciation for your offering to come in and help. 

Allen. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the date of that, please? 

Mr. Foreman. It was 1949. 

Mr. Coiin. November 22, 1949. 

I would just like to say another word or two. 

Mr. Walter. Before you proceed, may I see that first letter? 

Mr. Cohn. You want the original ? 

Mr. Walter. I think they should be marked as exhibits. 

Mr. Cohn. Would you like to see the original and have it marked? 

Mr. Walter. No. I would like to look at the copy. 

Mr. Foreman. Can I continue, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Walter. All right; proceed. 

Mr. Foreman. Thank you, sir. I understand that Karl Tunberg, 
the president of the guild, has asked for a voluntary subpena before 
the committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. I can't hear you. 

Mr. Foreman. I said, I understood that Karl Tunberg, who is the 
president of the guild, has asked for a voluntary subpena before this 
committee in order to tell the committee about the guild in connection 
with the tilings that have 

Mr. Tavenner. I may say to you that during the course of our 
hearings in Washington, a telegram was received from the president 
of the guild who stated that inasmuch as the name of the Screen 
Writers' Guild had been mentioned so frequently during the hear- 
ings there he desired the opportunity to appear before the committee. 

Mr. Foreman. Yes, sir ; I know, because I was on the board. 

Mr. Walter. I think it is only fair that he be permitted to come 
in and make a statement. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think so, too. 

Mr. Foreman. Well, as I say, I don't know whether he will or not, 
and that is up to you. but if he does, I feel very confident that Mr. 
Tunberg will tell you that my actions as a board member have only 
been in the best interest of the guild. I was elected for a 1-year 
term in 1!) L9 and reelected for a 2-year term in 1950. I am very con- 
cerned with the good name of the guild. It is a very good guild. I 
told you when I started that my first screen play was sold for $4 l 25, 
less agent's fee, and that was divided among two fellows, and the 
second one for $300. That was because the guild was not strong, and 
we little fellows had no chance. The amount of — I just can't tell 
you what went on, and I am very proud of being a guild member, 



1760 COMMUNISM IN MOTION- PICTURE INDUSTRY 

and I want nothing but the best for the guild. It has some very tine 
people in it. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Well, now, will you please answer my question. 
which Mas whether or not you have ever publicly renounced member- 
ship in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Foremax. Mr. Tavenner, I have never admitted that I was 
a member of the Communist Party. I decline to answer your ques- 
tions on that subject. However, the Hollywood Reporter, shortly 
after September 11, carried a story about the loyalty oath of the 
executive board of the Screen Writers 7 Guild and carried the names 
of the members of the executive board of the Screen Writers' Guild 
at that time. 

Mi-. Tavexxer. Now, do you deny that you were ever a member 
of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Foremax. I decline to answer that, sir, on the grounds I 
stated above. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Now, the first letter that you read, that of May 24, 
1951, referred to a personal difference. What was the personal differ- 
ence referred to ? 

Mr. Foremax. Well, actually, there was none, to my knowledge, 

because • 

Mr. Tavexxer. Excuse me. 
Mr. Foremax. I'm sorry. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Will you raise your voice a little. 
Mr. Foremax. Yes ; I will try, sir. I assume that the personal and 
political differences that Adele mentions were the fact that she was in 
support of slate candidates and I ran as an independent. This is 
interguild politics. This is my assumption; as to the personal dif- 
ferences, there were none because we hadn't yet met up until shortly 
before this. 

Mr. Tavexxer. As a matter of fact, there had been a very distinct 
cleavage within the Screen Writers' Guild, had there not, between two 
groups ; isn't that true ? 

Mr. Foremax. Well, I must tell you that if I say it is true, it is not 
from personal knowledge, necessarily, because up until the time I went 
into the Army I was a very unimportant guy in Hollywood and in 
the guild, as well. Now, I would go to meetings and listen to speeches. 
It was wonderful, because some writers can speak very well. 
Mr. Tavexner. I think probably you are overmodest. 
Mr. Foremax. No, sir; I am not. I went into the Army, and when 
I came back from the Army I was told that there was a middle-of-the- 
road element in the guild, and I have never been concerned with any 
cleavages or anything in the guild. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Well, were you 

Mr. Cohx. Would you excuse me a minute ? 
Mr. Foremax. My counsel w T ants to talk to me. 
(Conference between the witness and counsel.) 
Mr. Foreman. Mr. Tavenner, my counsel feels it is important for 
me to tell you that when I ran for the board, I ran without supporters 
and without a campaign, and my first campaign, I sent out two letters, 
two personal letters written by myself, as I remember, having mostly 
to do with the contract situation and the independent writer, and my 
second running for the office. I think I should also tell you that the 
nominating committee of the guild wished me to run for president, 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1761 

or some office like that, and I declined. I just didn't have the time. 
I ran without any support, no letters, no campaign. I just had my 
name on the list of candidates. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of an independent group within 
the guild known as the progressive caucus? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Foreman. The progressive caucus was, as 1 recall it, a very loose 
kind of thing, and I can't say that I ever was a member or was not a 
member. It had a very broad representation in the guild. People of 
all kinds with political ideas. It may be, Mr. Tavenner, that I at- 
tended one or two meetings of the caucus, but it wasn't very important 
tome. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you make financial contributions to that group ? 

Mr. Foreman. I don't think so, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Isn't it a fact that the members of that group, the 
progressive caucus, were in opposition to what was known within 
the guild as the anti-Communist all-guild group? 

Mr. Foreman. Well, I don't think the all-guild coalition ever called 
itself the anti-Communist all-guild 

Mr. Tavenner. Anti-Communist is merely descriptive. 

Mr. Foreman. I see. You said it was called that. Pardon me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire, to correct that. That was merely descrip- 
tive of the group that was known as the all-guild group. 

Mr. Coiin. May we confer for a moment, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Foreman. Mr. Tavenner 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir? 

Mr. Foreman. All I can tell you is that in connection with guild 
matters, voting on guild matters and voting on slates, I voted for 
the candidates right down the line on the political ticket on the basis 
of the men I thought would make the best men and on the issues that 
faced the guild. I acted as a board member to the best interests of 
the guild, according to my lights, and I am too busy 

Mr. Tavenner. You are not answering my questions. 

Mr. Foreman. Well, I really can't answer your question. I may 
not be clear as to what it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. I'm sorry, I could not understand you. If you 
will just raise your voice a little? 

Mr. Foreman. Yes, sir ; I will try. 

Mr. Tavenner. It gets down to a point lower than the microphones 
in front of you and I am unable to hear you. 

Mr. Foreman. I'm sorry, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. If I may suggest it, if you attempt to talk to me 
directly rather than concentrating on talking into the microphone, 
I think we will have less difficulty. 

Mr. Foreman. Thank you. You know, you are much more experi- 
enced than I am at this and it is a little bit 

Mr. Tavenner. I doubt that. 

Mr. Foreman. Mr. Tavenner, I wonder if you would mind repeat- 
ing the question about the progressive caucus and the all-guild coali- 
tion, because I just don't remember it now. 



1762 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked you whether or not the group known as 
the progressive group within the guild was in opposition to what is 
generally referred to as the anti-Communist group known as the all- 
guild committee? 

Mr. Foreman. Well, Mr. Tavenner, as I recall, there was opposi- 
tion on matters that affected guild policy and, as I also recall, I 
talked to people on all sides of any questions in the guild, on any 
matters relative to the guild, so that I would know how to act about the 
guild. I hope that answered your question. I always make up my 
own mind. Does that answer your question, sir? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, it doesn't; but I will let it go at that. 
Mr. Foreman. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Except that I would like to ask you whether or not 
you were affiliated in any manner with the group known as the pro- 
gressive caucus. 

Mr. Foreman. Well, sir, other than attending a meeting or two that 
I have already described, the answer is "No." Can I tell you why, 

sir, if I may ? May I — well, I mean 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your question? 

Mr. Foreman. May I elaborate on this for a moment? I have been 
so busy since 1947 that, actually, even being a member of the board 
has been a tremendous chore. I just haven't had the time to get in- 
volved in many things, so, as a guild member and as a board member, 
I have done the best I could, but I just haven't had time for meetings 
and things like that. 

The way we make pictures, it is a kind of a 23-hour-a-clay routine, 
and I happen to love to make pictures, and I give it everything I've 
got. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you referred to the fact that you sent two per- 
sonal letters in the campaign for the position that you occupied. I 
believe this was back in November 1949. 
Mr. Foreman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Diet you send those letters to the entire membership 
of the organization ? 

Mr. Foreman. I don't remember, Mr. Tavenner. I sent them. You 

know 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, isn't it a fact that you did obtain a mailing 
list from Albert Maltz ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 
Mr. Foreman. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you obtain the mailing list? 

Mr. Foreman. Frankly, I don't recall. It is my understanding — it 

was my understanding at the time — that the mailing lists were open 

to all candidates from the guild office, and it was only on that basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. If it was open to all members, how did you obtain 

it? 

Mr. Foreman. Actually, I don't remember. It may be that I walked 
in and asked for it. I couldn't — I just don't remember. There were 
plenty of lists floating around, anyway. I just don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, in the event that the mailing list was not open 
to the membership, generally, as I have had it indicated to me that it 
was not, what explanation would you make or do you desire to make 
of your obtaining the mailing list? 

Mr. Foreman. Then I couldn't make any explanation, sir. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1763 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of having taken a loyalty oath. Was 
that in connection with the performance of your duties as a member 
of the executive board of the Screen Writers' Guild \ 

Mr. Foreman. Well, it was a voluntary oath, Mr. Tavenner. There 
was some feeling on the part of some members of the board that it 
would be good for the guild if the board members did so voluntarily, 

Mr. Tavenner. Was not that the subject of a long dispute and 
rather bitter fight \ 

Mr. Foreman. Well, it sure was; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you not violently oppose the taking of such 
an oath ? 

Mr. Foreman. Well, I was in opposition to a great deal of some 
of the discussion going on and I was not the only one. I want to assure 
you. A great many people, including, I believe, Mr. Spiegelgass, 
George Seaton, F. Hugh Herbert, Oliver Garrett — I am sure these 
names are all well known to you — opposed the loyalty oath for the 
membership on principle. I opposed it, too. Writers, as you know, 
are prone to be unorthodox in many of their political opinions 

Mr. Tavenner. Pardon me. I didn't ask you any question— — 

Mr. Foreman. Oh, sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. About loyalty oaths by members. I asked you 
about loyalty oaths by persons who were members of the executive 
board. 

Mr. Foreman. Yes, sir, and the record will show that I voted in 
favor of the resolution as passed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you register your opposition to it until you 
found you were the only one who was in opposition? 

Mr. Foreman. Well, it might seem that way. There were other 
members of the board who were not present. The point was that 
when the resolution was finally written to my satisfaction, I voted 
in favor of the resolution. 

Mr. Tavenner. What amendment was there made to the resolution 
that brought you around to the point where you were willing to 
sign it ? 

Mr. Foreman. I wish I had the resolution here, and maybe you have 
it there. I don't know, but as I recall the final form of the resolu- 
tion that I voted in favor of went something like this : "I am not a 
member of the Communist Party or any party dedicated to the over- 
throw of the United States Government by force and violence and 
by" — and I can't give you the connective that went, but it went on to 
say that the executive board of the guild would resist any efforts to 
impose a loyalty oath on the membership of the guild, itself. In es- 
sence, that was the 

Mr. Tavexner. Was that clause the amendment to which you 
referred ? 

Mr. Foreman. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, that had nothing to do with you signing the 
loyalty oath as a member of the executive board. I fail to see the 
importance of the amendment with respect to your willingness to sign 
the oath, yourself. 

Mr. Foreman. Well, sir, I will try to clarify that for you. It seemed 
to me at the time that there were certain people within the guild who 
were very anxious to impose their own particular standards upon 
what they thought was loyalty on the other members of the guild. 

81595 — 51 — pt. 5 9 



1764 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

This is a pretty broad field of opinion, you know. It also seemed 
to me this was not necessary. I may not agree with you, sir, or any 
other member of the committee, but I do agree with a great many 
other people, and there was a difference of opinion whether or not 
loyalty oaths are a good thing or a bad thing in principle, whether 
they are American or un-American. I felt this: I had the feeling 
that a loyalty oath brought to the membership of the guild, itself, 
might well split the guild wide open, and I wanted to keep the guild 
together, and it was on that basis that I acted as I did. I had no 
objection to signing the oath, itself, but I didn't want to be pushed 
into anything by anybody. I like to do things on my own. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, how many members of the guild at that time 
were known to you to be members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Foreman. I decline to answer that, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, did that matter have anything to do with 
your holding out ? 

Mr. Foreman. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is, did your knowledge of, or possible knowl- 
edge of, the identity of Communist members in the group have any- 
thing to do with your action requiring this amendment before you 
would support it? 

(At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing 
room. ) 

Mr. Foreman. Absolutely not, sir. I was very much concerned, be- 
cause what had happened out at the University of California, the big 
smell in the papers — I didn't want the guild to get involved in any- 
think like that any more, if I have made myself clear, and I hope I have. 
In other words, sir, you probably remember that about that time the 
University of California board of regents had fired a great many pro- 
fessors that refused to sign loyalty oaths, and it was a big newspaper 
story, and I certainly don't know whether it did the university any 
good or any harm, but I felt that the Screen Writers' Guild had prob- 
ably been in the papers enough and we ought to get down to guild 
business. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, as the result of all these matters, the pro- 
cedure was adopted for the officers of the guild to sign the loyalty oath, 
that that was the loyalty oath that you referred to in the early part of 
your testimony as having been signed by you on September 11, 1950; 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Foreman. Yes. 

(The witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask you whether or not you were the last per- 
son of the group to sign the loyalty oath ? 

Mr. Foreman. I don't know. Now, I don't know. I don't think 
1 was. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask you whether or not you were a member 
of the Communist Party the day before you signed that oath? 

Mr. Foreman. Since I am — I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. You decline to answer? 

Mr. Foreman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive instructions from the Communist 
Party to the ('iHert that you would not be considered a member of the 
Communist Party as a device which would permit you to execute such 
an oath? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1765 

Mr. Foreman. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavennee. Did you become a member of the Communist Party 
the day after you signed the oath or at any subsequent time? 

Mr. Foreman, Mr. Tavenner, when I mentioned the oath, I told you 
the oath was true when I made it and has been true and is true today 
and at all times. I mean, in reference to any of this. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Foreman, assuming that you are not familiar with 
Public Law 601, which is the law under which this committee func- 
tions, I wish to state that our definite assignment by Congress, which 
is your Congress the same as it is mine, is that we shall investigate sub- 
versive and un-American activities. In that investigation our atten- 
tion has been called to the fact that the Communist Party in America, 
in its membership, has subversive people. In other words, people 
under Webster's definition who are willing to overthrow, to overturn,, 
to use forceful means to overthrow our Government. We have evi- 
dence by FBI agents, undercover agents in Communist cells to the fact 
that it was actually discussed in certain Communist cells, ways and 
means of getting firearms to use when and if the forceful revolution 
was directed from Communist Russia. 

(At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the 
hearing room.) 

Mr. Doyle. Now, I have made that statement to you as one man 
to another so you will have the background of my next question. 
With that statement by me, your statement that you took a loyalty 
oath on September 11, 1950, you signed it voluntarily as one of the 
directors of the Screen Guild, coupled with your refusal to tell us 
how long before that, if at all. you had been a Communist, inferentially 
leaves in my mind that there was a time when you were a Com- 
munist. I am not charging you with any bad faith or lack of o-ood 
faith when you signed the oath, understand, but inferentially at 
least in my mind it leaves a vacuum there about which you are un- 
willing to discuss whether or not you were a Communist. Now, sir, 
believing that you are just as anxious to protect our form of govern- 
ment and our democratic way of life as I am, why can't you come 
to the step and help us in our study of subversive people and programs ? 
I am not asking you to tattle-tale or snitch, but how about yourself, 
can't you help us from your experience to make this study? Is that 
an unfair question ? I don't mean it to be. 

Mr. Cohx. May we confer for a moment ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Foreman (after conferring with counsel). Mr. Doyle, I think 
that is a fair question. As much of the hearing as I have followed I 
think you are a very fair man. However, I have already answered 
questions of this nature to the best of my ability. You know my 
position. I believe that this committee knows far more about Com- 
munist activities than I ever could. But for your information, sir, 
I hope you will believe this, if I knew anyone who now or ever has 
treasonist intentions toward the United States of America and its 
form of government or its Constitution, I would consider it not only 
my duty but my privilege to report it to the nearest authorities. 



1766 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

I am afraid you will have to draw any inference you must. How- 
ever, I also ask you to judge upon my particular contributions to 
Americanism and in the pictures that I write and produce. 

Mr. Doyle. I, of course, as the father of a boy who gave his life 
in the same war that you were in, honor you for any service that you 
performed while you were in uniform. But I know so much now 
about the activities of the Communist Party in America and in Rus- 
sia that I can't honor men and women who were in the Communist 
Party. Knowing that its purposes are subversive and knowing that 
they take no pledge of allegiance to other than the Soviet Union I 
just can't come to the point of understanding, shall I say, the posi- 
tion that you take inferentially at least, in my mind, when you have 
rendered such great service in uniform. And yet in civilian clothes 
you don't come to the point of helping your United States Congress 
to uncover subversive programs. I want to urge you, Foreman, we 
know of your great ability and your splendid service to the Armed 
Forces — we know this voluntary pledge — but I want to say again 
that inferentially when you don't at least tell us what you know 
about the Communist Party — leave names out if you will, as far as 
my questions are concerned, leave all names out of any Communists 
that you know for the purpose of my questioning. What do you 
know about the functions of the Communist Party, if anything, that 
would help us get at the problem ? Is that a fair question ? I am not 
asking you to use any names of any of your associates. 

Mr. Cohn. You don't mind if we confer ? 

Mr. Walter. Go ahead. 

Mr. Doyle. We always want every witness to have counsel and 
use it. 

Mr. Foreman. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes, Mr. Foreman ? 

Mr. Foreman. First, I have never taken an oath of allegiance to 
any other country but the United States of America. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank God for that. 

Mr. Foreman. Well, sir, I am an American, I was born here and I 
love this country. I love it as much as any man on this committee. 
It is very difficult to prove it. There is one way to prove it, and it is 
to go out and get killed, because talk is very cheap, or you can wrap 
yourself in the American flag. I love this country, I have always sup- 
ported its Constitution and«the American way of life. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Foreman, you are not on trial for anything, we 
are seeking information. 

Mr. Foreman. I beg your pardon. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Doyle, you have violated the 3-minute rule. 

Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Foreman, are you still a member of the Screen 
Writers' Guild? 

Mr. Foreman. Yes, I am, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. How many known or self-admitted Communists are 
members of the Screen Writers' Guild? 

Mr. Foreman. I wouldn't have any idea, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you know any self -admitted members of the Com- 
munist Party, or others who are members of the Communist Party? 
Mr. Foreman. I don't, sir. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1767 

Mr. Jackson. On the question of the oath which was proposed to 
be taken by all members of the Screen Writers' Guild, do I under- 
stand the original oath as proposed would have extended to all of 
the members of the guild? 

Mr. Foreman. Mr. Jackson, this goes back to this last year. I 
really couldn't tell you the whole content of the meeting. Maybe you 
know more about it than I do, but I can't give you the whole content. 

Mr. Jackson. I will give you my understanding of the oath contro- 
versy, and that was that it hinged largely on whether or not the phrase 
should remain in the oath to be taken by the members of the Screen 
'Writers' Guild that they had never been a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Foreman. I think you have been misinformed, Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. That is possible. There is a lot of misinformation 
available for anyone who wants to take advantage of it. 

Mr. Foreman. That is quite true. Mr. Jackson 

Mr. Jackson. Just a moment, let me ask several more questions 
here. It is my further understanding that you personally opposed 
loyalty oaths. 

Mr. Foreman. Would you like an answer ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes, please. 

Mr. Foreman. My feeling is that we are now engaged in a war of 
ideas at this time, that ideas should and must find their way into the 
common market place and will be accepted or rejected by people. I 
have faith in the American public and I have a feeling that the impo- 
sition of oaths somehow smacks of police state methods and I kind 
of don't like it. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you realize, sir, that every one of the 80,000 
casualties in Korea has taken an oath of loyalty to this country and 
that every man who has served in the Armed Forces of this country 
has taken a loyalty oath, that everyone who goes abroad for travel 
takes a loyalty oath, every member of this committee at the beginning 
of every Congress raises his right hand and takes a loyalty oath? As 
far as I personally am concerned I would just as soon take one every 
morning with a vitamin pill. The matter of the oath, you are quite 
right, is a matter of personal conscience. Would you take an oath of 
loyalty as a condition of employment? 

Mr. Foreman. Yes, of course. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you take a loyalty oath as a condition of ob- 
taining a passport for travel abroad? 

Mr. Foreman. Yes, sir. If it is the law of the land, of course I 
would. 

Mr. Jackson. But you would still object to taking an oath unless 
it was literally crammed down your throat as the law of the land? 

Mr. Foreman. That isn't an exact statement, Mr. Jackson. 

Mi-. Jackson. You yourself made the "law of the land" statement. 
You would take a loyalty oath because it was the law to take it. Would 
you take an oath of loyalty to the United States voluntarily and out 
of a deep pride in our institutions? 

Mr. Foreman. Sure ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. You would? 

Mr. Foreman. I certainly would. 

Mr. Jackson. Well, I have read the oath that was proposed for 
the Screen Writers' Guild and I find nothing in it that would in 



1768 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

any way limit the scope of your artistry, that would in any way affect 
your religious rights, or any right that is guaranteed under the Con- 
stitution. I personally fail to see the objection to the oath proposed. 

Mr. Foreman. I took the oath, Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. But you also interposed objections to having anyone 
else in the membership take the oath. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Jackson. Did the membership itself vote on the question of 
whether or not a loyalty oath should be taken by the membership or 
was this an action of the board ? 

Mr. Foreman. You know, I don't quite remember that. It seems to 
me that prior to this board meeting a resolution was brought up 
before the guild membership at a late hour, and I think I had left 
before the resolution came up. The general feeling I got, both from 
members or from everybody — that includes the members of the all- 
guild coalition — that they were very much against the submission of 
a resolution for a loyalt}^ oath to the general membership. And I can 
swear to that. So if you say, "Was it ever proposed to the membership 
on that basis?" it was. It was never brought up again. 

I must tell you that I voluntarily signed an oath. I am in favor of 
voluntary oaths for people who want to make them. 

Mr. Jackson. Let me say in conclusion, Mr. Chairman, that the 
ultimate test of the credibility of a witness before the committee, 
as far as I am concerned, is the extent to which he is willing to co- 
operate with the committee in giving full details as to not only the 
place of activities, but also the names of those who participated with 
him in the activities within the Communist Party — and I am not relat- 
ing this to your membership or nonmembership, Mr. Foreman — I 
personally will place no credence in the testimony of any witness who 
is not prepared to come before this committee and fully cooperate 
with respect to the activities within the Communist Party. 

In that connection, Mr. Chairman, I ask permission to insert in 
the record at this point an editorial from the Herald Express of Sat- 
urday, September 22. Shall I read it, Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. It says : 

Let's not forget the loyal Americans. 

As Hollywood and the motion-picture world is rocked and shocked hy revela- 
tions of the activities of Communists and fellow travelers who seek the destruc- 
tion of America, it would be well to pause and to pay tribute to those loyal 
Americans who dared to sacrifice their very livelihood in the films in an effort 
to fight back the Red menace when first it reared its ugly head. 

Today the House Committee on Un-American Activities is doing a splendid 
job of bringing Red traitors out of hiding — and exposing the stooges of those 
who are taking their orders from Moscow. Good Americans everywhere are 
cooperating fully with the investigation. 

But we should not forget the sacrifice of the few who did their best to fight 
communism in the industry from the very start. 

We should remember Jim McGuinness, who really gave his life to the cause. 
We should remember Morrie Riskind, Richard Macauley, Jack Moffitt, Fred 
Niblo, Jr., and half a dozen others who knew that their jobs in the movies were 
at stake — and who didn't hesitate to do what they felt was their patriotic duty. 

So it is that today as we cooperate, approve, and join in the long-overdue 
housecleaning in the motion-picture industry, let us not forget those who saw 
the danger long ago — and dared to fight it to the best of their ability. 

Mr. Walter. I have been very much disturbed by reports that I 
received over the week end that some of the men who came forward 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION- PICTURE INDUSTRY 1769 

in 1947 and testified, in addition to which they gave us very valuable 
information, have apparently been blacklisted, which would indicate 
to me that either the producers or the employment agencies are punish- 
ing these people for doing what in their judgment is the American 
thing to do. And it is very, very disturbing. 

Mr. Foreman. Mr. Walter, please don't be disturbed because that 
information is absolutely incorrect. Now, don't take it from me, take 
it from Allen Rivkin, the head of the Motion Picture Industry Coun- 
cil ; take it from any witness you like, it is not so. 

Mr. Walter. Of course, I intend to pursue the matter. 

Mr. Foreman. Forgive me for raising my voice. 

Mr. Walter. That is quite all right. I intend to find out whether 
or not that is the fact, and if it is, why, of course, we are going to 
have to subpena some of the employers and find out whether they are 
punishing loyal Americans. 

Mr. Cohn. Forgive us for one moment, sir. 

Mr. Foreman (after conferring with counsel). Mr. Walter, just 
this. Writing for the movies is an extremely unsteady profession, the 
competition is very keen, and you know about the unemployment. 
But again I have made my statement on that. Please investigate it 
more fully. It is not true. All I can tell you now, at least, in terms 
of my company, I have told you that I am producing a picture that 
Edward Dmytryk will direct, Adolphe Menjou, a member of the 
Motion Picture Alliance, is going to appear in that picture of ours. 
I know Gary Cooper is doing it, and he is doing it because it is a good 
picture and a good, honest, American picture. But, really, sir, you 
have been misinformed. 

Mr. Walter. Any further questions, Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. Just one more question. 

In connection with Mr. Dmytryk, whose testimony was among the 
finest and most complete ever received by this committee, do you think 
that Mr. Dmytryk was doing the American thing, the right thing in 
coming before this committee and giving us the benefit of his knowl- 
edge regarding communism and Communist activities? 

Mr. Foreman (after conferring with counsel). I don't think it is 
very important as to what I think, Mr. Jackson. I think it is im- 
portant to Mr. Dmytryk, what he thinks. 

Mr. Jackson. I think it is very important what you think, but I 
shan't press the matter. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Potter, do you have any questions ? 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Foreman, you have by your testimony here this 
morning endeavored to give the impression that since the day that 
you took your loyalty oath you are a good, loyal, American citizen 
and that we are now in a war of ideas. While it is true it is a war of 
ideas, it is also a war of bullets, as many men are being drafted today 
to fight international communism abroad. You have information 
which would be helpful to us in fighting a portion of the international 
conspiracy here at home and we are asking you for intelligence infor- 
mation. As an American citizen you have certain duties and respon- 
sibilities and I feel that you are not carrying out your obligations as 
a citizen when you fail to aid not this committee, not Congress, but 
the American people in better understanding the Communist menace 
for which we are drafting men to put their very life in jeopardy in 
Korea to combat that menace today. 



1770 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Cohn. May we confer? 

Mr. Potter. Yes. 

Mr. Foreman (after conferring with counsel). Mr. Potter, I want, 
you to know that I listen to you with great deference and respect, and 
I know what your war record is, in addition to your being a Congress- 
man, an official of the Government. 

I try to be a good American in my daily life and in my work. I 
think that my Americanism is reflected in my work. Perhaps you 
know I wrote a picture called The Men, about paraplegic veterans, 
the men who lost the use of their legs and arms in action. The proud- 
est moment of my life, Mr. Potter, was when those men made me an 
honorary member of the Paralyzed War Veterans of America. You 
must judge me, or infer by what I do, sir. I can only tell you once 
more than if I knew of anyone thinking or committing treason against 
this country I would get down to the FBI just as quickly as I could. 

Mr. Potter. In deference to the paraplegic men who so honored 
you, and you honored them in writing the story for their picture, I 
am afraid, Mr. Foreman, that they are disappointed in your testimony 
today. 

I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. I don't want to be- 
labor the point. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Foreman, you have testified that if you knew 
anyone who was engaged in any activities looking to the overthrow 
of the Government through force and violence, you would consider it 
not only your duty but your privilege to report that immediately. 
When did you come to that opinion ? 

Mr. Foreman. All my life, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Didn't you realize at any time at all that the Com- 
munist Party was part of a conspiracy to obtain control of the world ? 

Mr. Foreman (after conferring with counsel). Mr. Walter, I fol- 
lowed some of the testimony of this hearing and it seems to me that 
most of the voluntary witnesses who appeared here and who were 
formerly Communists themselves did not ever seem to feel that they 
had been engaged in any kind of conspiracy. 

Mr. Walter. I think that is true, and that is just exactly what I am 
getting around to. There must have come a time when you reached 
the conclusion that you reached. If you had seen the 11,000,000 people 
who have been expelled from behind the iron curtain, who are now in 
the British and American zones in Germany, as I saw them writing 
the displaced-persons' legislation, and talked with them, you would 
understand it. It is too bad that these American Communists, these 
bleeding hearts, these well-meaning people who have an idea that 
they can't,«within the framework of our Constitution, bring about the 
social corrections that are so obviously needed, can't understand just 
exactly what the score is. Now, you at sometime or other must have 
reached the conclusion that being a member of the Communist Party 
wasn't going to amount to anything and I would like to know when it 
was, because actually you were subpenaed not because we wanted to 
ask you whether or not you were a Communist, not because of the de- 
sire on the part of any member of this committee to place people in a 
position where they might be sent to jail for contempt of the commit- 
tee, but every witness who has appeared before this committee was sub- 
penaed because he had certain information that we thought would be 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1771 

of value in our deliberations. We had an idea that you might explain 
to us how the factions in your guild operated before the election, be- 
cause we are interested in' knowing how far the Commies went in an 
attempt to control the Screen Writers' Guild. 

Mr. Foreman (after conferring with counsel). Mr. Walter, I have 
tried to make it clear that I wasn't a member of any faction of the 
guild. You see, up until very recently in Hollywood, Mr. Walter, the 
matters of importance to a writer were his last credits. And up until 
a few years ago there was nobody interested in getting into any fac- 
tion of the guild or anything. Since I have become inactive in the last 
few years I have gone my own way, and I think if you get testimony 
from people on the board of the guild they will tell you that. 

Mr. Walter. You testified that you were too busy to pay much 
attention to the activities but still you weren't so occupied that you 
didn't have time to make a fight on this question of the loyalty oath. 

Mr. Foreman. I didn't make a fight about it, Mr. Walter. It came 
up at a board meeting and I was present at the l>oard meeting. I do 
the best I can. I go to as many meetings as I can. I am on leave of 
absence now because I am shooting a picture. 

Mr. Walter. Do you know anything about the efforts that the 
Communists made to take over the Screen Writers' Guild? 

Mr. Foreman. No, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Did you participate with any other people in an 
attempt to place members on the board of the guild? 

Mr. Foreman. No, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Anything further, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused from further attendance? 

Mr. Tavenner. There is not. 

Mr. Walter. The witness is excused. 

Who is your next witness, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Reuben Ship. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Ship, will you raise your right hand, please. 

Do you swear the testimony you are about to give shall be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Ship. I do. 

Mr. Walter. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Ship ? 

Mr. Ship. Can we get the photographs over? 

Mr. Kenny. I think I can fill in the record in the meantime. Mr. 
Ship is represented by myself, Robert W. Kenny, and Ben Margolis. 

(Representative Charles E. Potter left the hearing room.) 

TESTIMONY OF REUBEN SHIP, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 
ROBERT W. KENNY AND BEN MARGOLIS 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir? 

Mr. Ship. My name is Reuben Ship, R-e-u-b-e-n S-h-i-p. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Ship? 

Mr. Ship. I was born on October 18, 1915, in Montreal, Canada. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen ? 

Mr. Ship. No, I am not. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you enter the United States ? 



1772 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Ship. I entered the United States on a permanent visa in 
July 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, where do you reside ? 

Mr. Ship. I reside in Hollywood. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been a resident of Hollywood ? 

Mr. Ship. Since July 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation or profession? 

Mr. Ship. I am a writer; primarily a radio writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state for the committee what your edu- 
cational training has been, briefly, please \ 

Mr. Ship. I was educated in the public and high schools of Mon- 
treal and I received by B. A. degree at McGill University in Montreal. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what has been your record of employment 
since arrival here in Hollywood in 1943 ? 

Mr. Ship. Well, when I first came here I spent a few short months 
trying to get started in motion pictures, without much success, so I 
went into the field of radio and, starting in December 1944, I believe, 
I have been employed, writing the Life of Riley radio program, and 
I was continuously employed on that program for a matter of some 
8 years, until this last June 1951. I wrote approximately 300 pro- 
grams. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ship, have you filed your declaration of inten- 
tion to become an American citizen ? 

Mr. Ship. Yes. That is known as first papers ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Ship. Yes. I did file such a declaration in June, I think, of 
1944. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you file it ? 

Mr. Ship. I filed it here in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you followed the naturalization procedure 
by applying for naturalization? 

Mr. Ship. No ; I did not pursue it any further. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why have you changed your view about becoming 
a citizen of the United States or your desire to become a citizen ? 

Mr. Ship. No ; I still have a desire to become a citizen of this very 
fine country. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the 
time you filed your declaration of intention to become an American 
citizen ? 

Mr. Ship. Well, inasmuch as you are now attempting to link me 
with an organization which you have labeled as subversive, I am 
going to stand on my privilege under the fifth amendment under 
which I cannot be compelled to testify against myself and, there- 
fore, I decline to answer your question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, were you a member of the Communist Party 
when you entered the United States? 

Mr. Ship. Again, sir, this a related question, and I decline on the 
previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Ship. Again I decline, same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. The fifth amendment to the Constitution offers to 
aliens as well as to American citizens the kind of protection that 
doesn't exist in many other countries in the world, Mr. Ship. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1773 

Mr. Doyle, any questions? 

Mr. Doyle. Do you deny that you were a Communist at any time 
since you entered the borders of our great country as you stated, com- 
ma quote ? 

Mr. Ship. Mr. Doyle, at the risk of being repetitious, although I 
think that even if I were repetitious I would be performing some slight 
service to the American people in informing them that when one 
stands on the fifth amendment, one neither affirms nor denies any- 
thing, one merely refuses to answer on the grounds that an answer 
might tend to subject the person to prosecution and that no inference 
except this stated one can be drawn. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, I am glad you have apparently been very thor- 
oughly informed as to your constitutional rights under the Constitu- 
tion of the United States. Is it a fair question for me to ask why 
you haven't prosecuted your second papers? You filed your first 
papers in 19-14. Let's see, that is how many years ago? You have 
been here in Los Angeles all these years. I think it might cost then 
$10 or $12 more to complete your papers. Why haven't you done it? 

Mr. Ship. Well, Mr. Doyle, I have witnessed a shocking and a 
frightening change take place in this country since the death of 
President — that great, liberal President, Franklin Roosevelt, Hun- 
dreds of aliens, foreign-born men and women, have been thrown in 
jail, in many cases held without bail or with excessive bail, and have 
been persecuted because of their beliefs, because of their opinions. 
Now, when the alien — I have sat 

Mr. Doyle. Now, just a minute. I am not asking you to take my 
time to recite a speech that you are prepared to make. 

Mr. Ship. Mr. Doyle, I can't answer your question yes or no. 

Mr. Doyle. But I am interested — well, you can't answer it? You 
can tell us why 

Mr. Ship. Can I answer ? I can't answer that yes or no. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, that doesn't call for a speech. Be as brief as 
you can, because our time is limited. 

Mr. Ship. Very well, being as brief as I can, in specific reply to your 
question as to why I did not apply for citizenship, I decline under 
the fifth amendment to answer it. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, assuming that I know enough about the founda- 
tion of the speech that you started to make, I was going to ask you, 
if you find so much fault with my country, w T hy don't you go back 
to yours, if that is a fair question ? I understand you are very critical 
of this country since President Roosevelt died, and I always supported 
President Roosevelt and I am sorry he died, but I would invite you, 
sir 

Mr. Ship. Sir, I am not critical. I did not say I was critical of 
this country, only critical of certain aspects that have been happening 
in this country. " I tell you, I am critical of this committee. That is 
one aspect. 

Mr. Doyle. You get in and make this country better by becoming 
a citizen. 

Mr. Walter. Let's not engage in argument, gentlemen. 

Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. To pursue the same question, Mr. Ship, you 
are critical of this committee — you so state. You realize, of course, 
that this committee is a legally constituted body of the United States 



1774 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Congress, expressing the wishes and the will of the vast majority of 
the people of the United States. Do you acknowledge that ? 

Mr. Ship. Well, the witch-hunting things in the time of Cotton 
Mather were legally constituted bodies. 

Mr. Jackson. If so many witches wouldn't leave their brooms laying 
around we wouldn't be falling over them. 

Mr. Ship. Are you now accusing me of being a witch? 

Mr. Jackson. I am not accusing you of being anything. Whatever 
you are is in your own mind and on your own conscience, but I would 
join with my colleague, Mr. Doyle, in saying to you, Mr. Ship, that 
if you don't like the United States of America, if you don't like the 
way the Congress runs the country, if you don't like the institutions 
and the ideals, available transportation is still operating between 
this country and Canada, and I would suggest, for one, that you go 
back to Canada. 

Mr. Ship. But I do like the United States and I am going 

Mr. Jackson. Then act like an American citizen that you hope to 
become. 

Mr. Ship. I would like to 

Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Ship. Stay in this country, and I will. 

Mr. Jackson. I hope if you do you will act like a citizen 

Mr. Ship. I am acting like a citizen. 

Mr. Jackson. And accept some of the responsibilities of a citizen. 

Mr. Ship. I am upholding the Constitution. 

Mr. Walter. Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen. 

(At this point Representative Charles E. Potter returned to the 
hearing room.) 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Ship, you said hundreds of aliens have been 
thrown into jail. Who are these aliens ? What have they been charged 
with ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Walter. You don't need your attorney to give you the answer. 

Mr. Ship. It is almost impossible to pick up the paper without, in 
the past year, having read of some aliens who, because of their alleged 
opinions and beliefs, have been subjected to some kind of persecution. 
I don't know their names, specifically, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Well, what persecution have they been subjected to? 

Mr. Ship. Today, if they stand for peace, peace is made synonymous 
with communism. 

Mr. Walter. You mean to say that anybody that stands for peace 
has been put in jail ? 

Mr. Ship. No; but I think this committee is attempting to make 
anybody who stands for peace out to be a subversive, you see, so that 
the net result is going to be that people who have sincere desires for 
peace are going to be afraid to speak about peace, and I think that is 
a terrible thing, and that is a very dangerous thing, because then you 
are preparing a net climate here that is conducive to war, and, as a 
result of that, the war that we all dread, the war that can destroy 
the world, may happen. Now, I would rather risk — I think Thomas 
Jefferson said that if there is anybody among us who would dissolve 
this union or try to overthrow this form of government, let them 
stand — I am quoting roughly — let them stand, he said, as monuments 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1775 

to the safety with which error of opinion can be tolerated, where 
reason is left to combat it, and I am for reason. 

Mr. Walter. Who do yon think yon are kidding, Mr. Ship ? 

Mr. Ship. Well, I am not trying to kid Mr. Thomas Jefferson. 

Mr. Walter. Well, what yon have told me is the Communist line, 
and if there was any doubt in my mind before you took this witness 
stand as to why you "failed to apply for your second papers it has been 
eliminated now. Any reason why this witness should not be dis- 
charged ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Who is your next witness, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Fleury. 

Mr. Walter. Mrs. Fleury, will you raise your right hand, please. 
You swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Fleury. I do. 

Mr. Walter. Be seated, please. 

TESTIMONY OF BERNYCE POLIFKA FLEURY 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please. 

Mrs. Fleury. My name is Bernyce Polif ka Fleury, and I also go un- 
der the name of Bernyce Polifka, professionally. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the names, please. 

Mrs. Fleury. B-e-r-n-y-c-e P-o-l-i-f-k-a F-1-e-u-r-y. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mrs. Fleury? 

Mrs. Fleury. I was born in Sacramento, Calif., in 1913, May 13. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you now live in California? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in California ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Off and on, I would say, all my life, except for a year 
in the East and almost a year in Europe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee briefly what youi 
educational training has been. 

Mrs. Fleury. Elementary and high schools in California ; 3 years 
of it at the Sacramento Junior College; 2 years at the Art Center 
School and 1 year of the Choinard Art Institute. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation or profession? 

Mrs. Fleury. I am an artist, designer, instructor — artist and de- 
signer and instructor. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly what the nature of your work 
has been in art designing? 

Mrs. Fleury. I have been a — when I first got out of the school I was 
a free-lance designer for several years, which entailed package de- 
signing, designing of all kinds of products — not all kinds, but quite a 
few different kinds of products; a little bit of advertising design, and 
it has also entailed work as a motion picture background artist, lay- 
out artist and art direction ; also mural designing. 

My life's big job — public job, as a matter of fact, were wall decora- 
tions and mural designs for the Hollywood Race Track. Does that 
cover it? ( 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; I think so. Are you married ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your husband's name ? 



1776 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mrs. Fleury. Eugene Fleury. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is he engaged in the work of art, himself ? 

Mrs. Fleury. He most certainly is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just what is the nature of this work ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Well, I would say exactly the same as mine; artist 
and designer and instructor. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Fleury, it came to the attention of the com- 
mittee through its investigation that both you and your husband were 
at one time members of the Communist Party. 

Mrs. Fleury. That's correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee when, and the circum- 
stances under which you became a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes; and if I may, I would like to preface it with 
one short statement. I don't know whether this is a preface. I think 
it is a part of it. That is, that the time when my husband and I be- 
came members — not active members in the Communist Party — the 
Communist Soviet Russia was our ally, and the Communist Party was, 
I believe, also in the 

Mr. Potter. Ballot? 

Mrs. Fleury (continuing). Ballot. Thank you. On the ballot. 
At no time have we ever been un-American or subversive. My hus- 
band and I have talked about this a great deal. I believe — we think 
it was around 1942, we think now, that we became interested in a 
group of artists which got together in a very casual manner to talk 
about art and how we could become better artists. As a matter of 
fact, as I recall back, I don't believe the term "communism" or "Marx- 
ism" was named at the first couple of meetings. I would say that we 
went to about — now, I am guessing on this, sir — a half a dozen meet- 
ings before my husband went in the Army. At that time, he, of course, 
had nothing more to do with the Communist Party. I continued going 
to meetings. Now, not regular meetings, may I say, because my 
pattern of living had changed quite a great deal. Most of these meet- 
ings — as a matter of fact, most all the meetings at which I went to 
were very casual meetings. They were informal, and I hate to bore 
the committee, but they were also the coffee-and-doughnut kind, too. 

(At this time Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing 
room. ) 

Mrs. Fleury. A lot of them were very open meetings. Would you 
like me to go on ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; we would like to have the full benefit of your 
knowledge. 

Mrs. Fleury. I can personally recall no talk of politics, with the ex- 
ception of current events, at the meetings which I attended. The main 
concern of the people was about how we could be artists, how we can 
be better artists, art in industry, fine arts, the problems of the artist, 
in other words. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, this was a group of artists ? 
Mrs. Fleury. I would say, sir, that the majority of the people in 
the group were artists ; yes, to the best of my knowledge. To the best 
of my knowledge, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you recall what arrangement there was in 
this group for the payment of dues ? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1777 

Mrs Fleury. No, sir ; I don't. I do know that dues were paid, again 
in a very casual manner. Who collected them, I do not know. I do 
know that dues were collected, though. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not there was any percent- 
age of salary assessed vour husband or you? .j 

Mrs. Fleury. I vaguely remember, sir, that the dues were based on 
a percentage, and it seemed as I recall, it was a very low percentage 
in our group, considering on a salary basis. I mean, the percentage 
was quite low in our group, as I recall, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, do you recall any outstanding Communist m 
the Hollywood industry, the moving-picture industry, who attended 

those meetings ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Sir, I think it would be impossible for me to say 
"Communist." I can say some people were there, but whether— I 
cannot say positively that they were Communists. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with a person by the 
name of Biberman? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes; I did, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Which of the Bibermans was it? 

Mrs. Fleury. Mr. Edward Biberman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Edward Biberman? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you play any particular part m these meetings 

which you attended? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes ; I think that both Mr. Biberman and I played a 
part in these meetings. You see, Mr. Biberman had very decided 
ideas about art, and I also had very decided ideas about art, and I am 
afraid we didn't agree most of the time. ,.,.,, ™-, i 

Mr. Tavenner. What were the ideas about art which Mr. Edward 
Biberman sponsored? 

Mrs. Fleury. To talk about his ideas about art, Mr. lavenner, 1 
also have to talk about my own ideas about art. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes; lean understand that. 

]\Irs. Fleury. It seemed to me that my difference in opinion— my 
main differences in opinion were that it is not the problem of the artist 
to concern himself with, shall we say, social content, propaganda, et 
cetera ; that that is not the artist— I am probably saying this very 
badly. I am an artist, I am not a talker. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are doing very well. 

Mrs. Fleury. That the artist— it is not his medium— it is not the 
medium of an artist to do any kind of documentation or even journal- 
ism, such as we have in the Life magazine. In other words, painting 
is not the medium for 

Mr. Tavenner. When you were speaking of art, you were speaking 
of the field of painting? . . 

Mrs. Fleury. I was speaking of the field of painting, yes, Mr. 

Mr. Tavenner. You did not agree, as I understand with Edward 
Biberman, that your art 

Mrs. Fleury. That is quite right. , 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). That your art of painting should 
necessarily carry a social message? 

Mrs. Fleury. That is correct. I don't believe that it should. 



1778 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. That, you say, was the outstanding difference be- 
tween you ? 

Mrs. Fleury. That was the outstanding difference. We went around 
on it several times. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you given any literature, both you and the 
other members of this group ? 

Mrs. Fleury. I can tell you the literature which I was given. I 
was given a pamphlet on art, and I was also given a book on art — 
loaned a book on art, I should say. 

(At this time Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the 
hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the character of these books on art which 
you were given to study ? 

Mrs. Fleury. I can only briefly — I can't go into detail about it be- 
cause I honestly cannot remember the entire content of the books. 
The one pamphlet was about the artist David, a French Revolutionary 
artist whom I consider a very dull painter and not a very good painter, 
and I could see no reason that he should be considered a great painter 
simply because he had some connection with the French Revolution. 
There are many other artists before his time and after his time in 
France who, in my estimation, were much greater painters, much 
better painters than he was. The second book 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, just one moment. 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that particular artist rather sponsored by the 
Communists as the ideal which should be followed in the practice of 
your art? 

Mrs. Fleury. Well, considering that the pamphlet was given to me 
at a meeting, I would assume that it was one of the artists. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Now, I interrupted you. What did you 
have in mind to state ? 

Mrs. Fleury. The book? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. You were discussing the artists from the 
period of the French Revolution. 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, and then I think I was going to mention — you 
asked me what literature had been given to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Fleury. The book. Now, I wish I could — I wish I did remem- 
ber the name of it. I don't remember the name. I don't remember 
the author. It was a book on art and the artist's place — now, as 
I recall — in society. I was to give a report on this book. I found 
it very difficult to give a report on a book which I did not agree with, 
whirl) I certainly did not. I made a half-hearted attempt at giving 
a report, but I absolutely do not remember the name of the book, 
the author of the book. All I know is that I disagreed with it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you express those beliefs in meetings? 

Mrs. Fleury. T think that was pretty obvious, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us who met with you in these groups? 
First, I want to make certain that the persons you have mentioned 
were persons known to you to be members of the Communist Party, 
if they were. What persons who were members of the Communist 
Party met with you in these meetings ? 

Mrs. FleurY. I believe, sir, there are only two persons — I beg your 
pardon? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1779 

Mr. Walter. Go ahead. Proceed. 

Mrs. Fleury. I believe there are only two persons which it would 
be at all possible for me to connect with the Communist Party. One 
of them is Mr. William Pomerance and one is Mr. David Hilberman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the names, please? 

Mrs. Fleury. The first names, too ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes— no ; not the first names. 

Mrs. Fleury. P-o-m-e-r-a-n-c-e. H-i-1-b-e-r-m-a-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was Mr. Hilberman 's first name? 

Mrs. Fleury. David. 

Mr. Tavenner. David. What were the circumstances under which 
you met with them in the Communist Party matters? 

Mrs. Fleury. At the same meetings about art, same 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were these meetings held? 

Mrs. Fleury. They were held at various houses. I remember going 
to meetings at Mr. Hilberman's. I remember going to meetings at 
Mr. Pomerance's. I remember going to meetings at other houses 
who, believe me, I cannot remember whose house they were or where 
they were. I understand, also, that my husband, in his previous tes- 
timony to this committee, mentioned that there was a meeting at our 
house. I do not remember that meeting at all. We have discussed 
it since and evidently I either was out of town or — evidently, the only 
thing we can think of is that I was out of town. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, how did you learn when and where meetings 
were to be held? 

Mrs. Fleury. Well, it was a very vague thing. Somebody would 
say, "Well, let's meet 2 weeks from today at such and such a house." 
Perhaps you would get a phone call putting it over for a couple of 
weeks, or perhaps someone would say, "Well, we are going to get 
together at" somebody's. There was no regular routine at any time 
on where we were to meet. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, how did you go to the places of these meet- 
ings ? What means of transportation did you have ? 

Mrs. Fleury. When my husband was in the Army, I was very 
often picked up by either Mr. Hilberman or Mr. Pomerance, inasmuch 
as we lived in the same district of the Los Angeles area. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, can you tell the committee the names of any 
of the persons present at those meetings which were attended by Mr. 
Edward Biberman and which Mr. William Pomerance, for instance, 
took you to? 

Mrs. Fleury. That is very difficult, and I'll tell you the reason why, 
Mr. Tavenner. I am going to try to answer to the very best of my 
ability as honestly as I can and to the best of my ability. I had met 
a great number of people during that time with my work in the 
studios. I have met a great number of people since that time. There 
were many parties, and the thing begins to overlap in my mind to 
the point where I am afraid 1 would be guessing, and I don't think 
you want me to guess. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is correct. Now, you spoke of the fact that 
your interest in art, that of both you and your husband, was what led 
you into joining the Communist Party. 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir. I think that was the main reason that we 
went into the Communist Party. Certainly we had no political 
interest. 

81595—51 — pt. 5 10 



1780 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Your entire life and that of your husband is 
centered around the field of art ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes ; both of our lives. 

Mr. Tavenner. So that groups discussing art made a special appeal 
to both you and your husband ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir ; very much so. We will talk art 25 hours a 
day. I know there is only 24, but we will talk 25. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, as time went on, what was your reaction to 
the literature, the Communist Party literature that was given to you 
and the principles that were discussed by Ed Biberman in the field 
of art? 

Mrs. Fleury. Well, of course, as far as the principles discussed by 
Ed Biberman in the field of art, as I think I stated previously, from 
the very beginning I did not agree with him. As far as any other 
discussions about communism, Marxism, and so forth, frankly, it wor- 
ried me at first, and I did not agree with it again, but I still — my 
interest being mostly in art, as I think so many of us in that group 
were, that the other thing kind of slid by and the political end of it 
caught up with us a little bit later. In other words, we became aware 
of its political — not influence, but wrongness — — 

Mr. Tavenner. You became aware of the political implication on 
it as you proceeded ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Implications. That is the word, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then what did you do when you became aware of 
the political implications? 

Mrs. Fleury. I stopped going to meetings. As a matter of fact, I 
became — when I became aware of it, I began going less and less often. 
It is kind of a drift-out, if you know what I mean, until I ceased 
having anything to do with the Communist Party, and I believe, sir, 
that that was in — now, again I am not very good at dates. I believe 
it was in 1944. To the best of my recollection or remembrance, it was 
in 1044, possibly the early part of 1945. I am almost convinced, 
though, it was 1944. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Fleury, during the course of this investigation, 
it has developed from the testimony of a great number of witnesses 
that the Communist Party sought to mold the thought of writers that 
they brought within their groups ; that when those writers ceased to 
write as members of the Communist Party they were made to account 
for it. I have reference particularly to Budd Schulberg, which is a 
very famous example of it, and also to Albert Maltz. In your descrip- 
tion of the method by which Ed Biberman endeavored to explain to 
you the importance of carrying a social message in your painting, 
were you aware of the fact that your own ideas were being, in any way, 
led into that realm or that area of carrying a social message in your 
painting? 

Mrs. Fleury. I don't believe, sir, that I realized it at the time, no. 
I have thought about it since, and I think that perhaps there possibly 
might have been an inference, shall we say, that I might contribute 
more as an artist. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, with reference to the books and the literature 
which was furnished to you, do you consider that the literature con- 
stituted the Marxist line or the Marxist thought on art? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1781 

Mrs. Flettrt. Yes. There is nothing else I can think but that it was 

the Marxist line and thought. Of course, it may have changed by now, 
too. At that time it must have been the Marxist idea on art. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, what was it specifically which led you to 
sever your tie with the Communist Party % 

Mrs. Fleury. Well I think possibly the same thing that took me into 
the party took me out of the party, perhaps in some respects. That is, 
you see, when you want to be a better artist, it also means you want to 
be a better person and, also, all artists at all times have a terrific curi- 
osity. They are constantly students, and they are constantly trying to 
find out something new, something which will, shall I say, help them 
in their beliefs as artists as well as what they actually put down on 
canvas or on paper. I do know this, and very, very definitely, that 
when I went into the party, I was not aware of its political implica- 
tions, not in the slightest, and the longer I stayed in the party, I be- 
came more and more aware of the political implications, and so plus 
the fact that I simply didn't agree with it, I would like to say that I 
do not agree with any of the concepts, any of the aspects of commu- 
nism in any form whatsoever. I don't agree with what the Soviet 
Union is doing today, I don't agree with the so-called Communist 
Party in this country, I don't agree with — plus, I don't agree with 
what they say about art. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you believe, as an artist, that you could 
successfully practice your art — 
Mrs. Fleury. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, you haven't heard the rest of my question, 
whether you could successfully practice your art if you were told by 
Ed Biberman or anyone else within the Communist Party how T you 
should conduct it. 

Mrs. Fleury. Mr. Tavenner, in the field of fine arts, I do not believe 
that any artist can be told how to paint, how to draw or what he should 
draw or what he should paint. In the field of commercial art you have 
a job to do, whether it be advertising or illustration or wall decoration 
or moton pictures. Then I think your art must fulfill the function of 
that job need. Does that answer your question I 
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Walter. Is this a good place for a break? 
Mr. Tavenner. Just one minute. Yes. 

Mr. Walter. The committee will stand in recess until a quarter of 2. 
(Whereupon, at the hour of 12 noon, an adjournment was taken in 
the above hearings until the hour of 1 : 45 p. m. of the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(Whereupon at the hour of 2 p. m. of the same day, the proceedings 
were resumed, the same parties being present.) 

Mr. Walter. The meeting will come to order. Mrs. Fleury, will 
you please resume your seat. 

I would like to admonish the audience that thus far we have had 
very fine order. There is a lot of audible conversation over to my 
right and I trust that you will continue with the cooperation that you 
have shown thus far and refrain from audible conversation. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 



1782 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

TESTIMONY OF BERNYCE POLIEKA FLEURY— Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Fleury, when you received a subpena to ap- 
pear before this subcommittee, did you confer with your employer? 

Mr. Fleury. Yes, I did. And his advice was to be honest and co- 
operative with the committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you given the committee in closed session the 
benefit of such information as you had relating to the persons you 
thought may have been present at the meetings ? 

Mrs. Fleury. I believe I honestly have ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has a record of that for use as in- 
vestigating leads? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned in the course of your testimony this 
morning a Mr. David Hilberman 

Mrs. Fleury. Correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. As being a person who took you to a number of these 
Communist Party meetings. 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was Mr. Hilberman's occupation or profes- 
sion ? 

Mrs. Fleury. He was in the animation business. I believe he was a 
lay-out man at the time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where he was employed at that time ? 

Mrs. Fleury. I believe he was at AVarner Bros. Cartoons. It was 
known at that time as Leon Schlesinger, which is now Warner Bros. 
Cartoons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you husband also cooperate with the commit- 
tee and appear before it ? 

Mrs. Fleury. To the best of my knowledge, he did ; yes sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. To what extent, if any, did you feel that the Com- 
munist Party in America, so far as fine arts were concerned 

Mrs. Fleury. The influence of the Communist Party on fine arts ? 

Mr. Doyle. To what extent did you feel the Communist Party in 
the United States so far as fine arts was concerned, as distinguished 
from commercial art 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes? 

Mr. Doyle. Was trying to educate you that the subject of the 
artist, or the subject which the artist should take and paint should 
be dictated by the state rather than by the initiative and resourceful- 
ness of the artist himself ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Well, I feel that — -I can't say that they used the word 
"state," but I feel that they would very possibly have liked me to use 
my talent as an artist for social content, shall we say, for propaganda 
purposes; yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you come to the conclusion that the policy of the 
Communist Party would not only have gone to the point of liking 
1o have you use it for propaganda in fine arts, but they actually felt 
thai the province of an artist was to paint whatever the ruling body 
and government might dictate, or might feel was 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Doyle. You get my point, do you, Mrs. Fleury ? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1783 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Doyle. I don't know how to word it. 

Mrs. Fleury. It is very hard to word it. It is kind of an intan- 
gible thing. 

Mr. Doyle. Did yon come to the conclusion that the policy of the 
Communist Party in the United States was to say to the artist, u You 
shall paint this" ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. And that is what you would paint ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Of course, that was repugnant to you as an American 

artist ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir, Mr. Doyle. And I feel it was repugnant to 
a lot of other artists besides myself. 

Mr. Doyle. I hope the time will never come, and I am sure it will 
never come in our country, when that is the thinking. 

Mrs. Fleury. I hope so, too. 

Mr. Doyle. One more question, Mr. Chairman. 

Because you are a woman I am asking you if you saw any effort of 
the Communist Party in America to mobilize the children and young 
people of our country under the Communist banner. Did that hap- 
pen to come to your attention at all ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Inasmuch as I am not a mother, and that I am a wife 
and an artist, no, sir. I was always approached from a professional 
viewpoint. 

Mr. Doyle. You stated the same things that took you into the 
party took you out of the party. I noticed particularly this state- 
ment by you, and I wrote it down, "If you are an artist you want to 
be a better person." 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. What did you mean by that ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Well, I think that to be good in any profession that 
you, too, have to be good. I mean, I am getting a little bit soulful, 
but I believe in it, that if you want to be a better doctor, if you want 
to be a better singer, if you want to be a better actor, if you want to be 
a better lawyer, that you, too, have to improve yourself, be better, 
yourself. I know it sounds quite vague. I hope 

Mr. Doyle. No ; it is not at all vague for me, and I want to com- 
pliment you on making that observation. In other words, if you 
want to be the highest and the best artist, you have to put something 
on the canvas besides paint? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. And that came from within yourself. 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. I think that is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackson. Mrs. Fleury, I would simply like to add my word 
of thanks for the testimony you have given. It has been very help- 
ful to the committee. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. Mrs. Fleury, the Communist Party has made great 
efforts to recruit and appeals to artists of all kinds — 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir. 



1784 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Potter. And I, too, am most happy that you, as an artist, have 
taken the opportunity to appear before our committee and tell the 
committee the reasons why you, as an artist, couldn't remain in the 
Communist Party, and I think that all true artists, if they should 
ever fall victims to the Communist organization, that their true 
artistry will take them out the same as it has you. 

Mrs. Fleury. I hope so. 

Mr. Potter. I wish to commend you for your fortitude that it has 
taken to appear before this committee, and I wish you every suc- 
cess. 

Mrs. Fleury. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Mrs. Fleury, you have testified that the meetings 
were held at irregular times. Was there ever any notice published of 
the time and place of the meetings ? 

Mrs. Fleury. Published, sir ? You mean in a paper or 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mrs. Fleury. No, sir. No; it was always by word of mouth, 
whether by telephone or- 

Mr. Walter. Very quietly and cautiously? 

Mrs. Fleury. Well, I am afraid that considering the people that 
were within our group, I don't think it was too cautious, sir. Casual. 

Mr. Walter. You have made it a point 

Mrs. Fleury. Casual, I would say, is more the word. 

Mr. Walter. But you did make it a point to keep the public from 
being aware of times and places of meetings, didn't you? 

Mrs. Fleury. That's correct. 

Mr. Walter. Why? 

Mrs. Fleury. Sir, I couldn't answer that. 

Mr. Walter. Was it because there was a feeling that perhaps you 
were doing was something that didn't bear the light of publicity ? 

Mrs. Fleury. I think possibly it might have been treated such as 
children treat secret societies. Several times I had that feeling. 

Mr. Walter. Yes. I think a great many people had or shared those 
views up to a point. We used to laugh at these comics, as we called 
them, not Commies, until people became aware of the fact that there 
was something more to this movement and that it was no longer a joke. 

Mrs. Fleury. That is quite correct. 

Mr. Walter. You said that you drifted out of the party because of 
the political discussions that took place. What were those discussions? 

Mrs. Fleury. I am afraid that I may not have made myself clear 
this morning; that I became aware of the political implications of the 
party, and that in the group which I was in, we had very few political 
discussions. We did talk about current events, but as far as we did, 
also, talk a little bit about Marxism, and that awful word — how do 
you pronounce it — dialectical materialism, but we had very, very little 
talk about politics, as such, but I began to realize the political impli- 
cations of the Communist Party, which I was not aware of when I 
went into it. I knew I was going to become a Communist. 

Mr. Walter. Was literature distributed? 

Mrs. Fleury. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Walter. That was Communist literature, wasn't it? 

Mrs. Fleury. I assume it must have been, yes. 

Mr. Walter. Yes. So that you were fully aware, up to that time, 
of what }^ou were doing? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1785 

Mrs. Fleury. That's right. 

Mr. Walter. Any further questions, Mr. Ta vernier ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Is there any reason why this witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. There is not. 

Mr. Walter. The witness will be excused. I would like to at this 
time state that the members of the committee have been simply in- 
undated by the mail and it is going to be a physical impossibility to 
answer all of the letters that have come to us, but I do want to state 
publicly that we are very appreciative of this correspondence, 99 
percent of which expresses approval of the work being done by this 
committee. 

Who is the next witness, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, we had subpenaed the husband of 
Mrs. Fleury, Mr. Eugene Fleury. He appeared before the commit- 
tee, and his testimony was in line with that of the previous witness. 

Mr. Walter. If it is merely cumulative, I think, to save time, we 
can 

Mr. Tavenner. It would be, and unless you insist, I would not call 
him. 

Mr. Walter. Is he here ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir, he is here, and he may be excused. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Fleury is excused from attendance under the sub- 
pena. Who is your next witness? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Donald Gordon. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Gordon. 

Will you raise your right hand, please. Do you swear the testi- 
mony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Gordon. I do. 

Mr. Walter. Sit down, please, Mr. Gordon. 

TESTIMONY OF DONALD GORDON 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Donald Gordon ? 

Mr. Gordon. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Gordon? 

Mr. Gordon. May I say just a word on the question of counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Oh, I beg your pardon. Do you have counsel ? 

Mr. Walter. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Gordon. I wanted to say this, if I may. I was present in this 
room last Friday morning. I heard what seemed to me an improper 
and shocking attack upon another witness' attorney. At that point 
I felt that the right to have counsel was being invaded and I made up 
my mind that I could not subject any human being to another such 
attack, so though I do not waive any rights to counsel, I am here with- 
out counsel for that reason. 

Mr. Walter. Principally for the reason that you wanted to make 
the speech you just made ; isn't that the reason ? 

Mr. Gordon. No ; the thought had not occurred to me until the in- 
cident had occurred, because I had intended to have counsel. 

Mr. Walter. Well, I want to say this to you, sir, that it is becoming 
annoying — and that is a gross understatement of fact — to members 



1786 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

of this committee to see members of the bar not advising their clients 
but instructing them as to their answers. There is a vast difference, 
particularly when we happen to know that certain members of the bar 
who have appeared for witnesses here and in Washington are mem- 
bers of the Communist Party and we have their own Communist Party 
cards, so perhaps I may be excused for expressing my opinions. Pro- 
ceed, Mr. Taveimer. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Gordon? 

Mr. Gordon. Bridgeport, Conn., November 21, 1903. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Gordon. Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Los Angeles? 

Mr. Gordon. Since 1912. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived here constantly since that time ex- 
cept for temporary travel? 

Mr. Gordon. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you briefly outline for the committee your 
educational background, please, sir. 

Mr. Gordon. I attended the elementary and high schools of Los 
Angeles and University of California at Los Angeles, and graduated 
from Pomona College in 1923 with a B. A. degree. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ? 

Mr. Gordon. I am an editor. 

Mr. Tavenner. An editor ? In the moving-picture industry or in 
newspaper work ? 

Mr. Gordon. Oh, I am an assistant in the story department at 
Metro-Gol dwy n-Mayer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Describe briefly what the duties of an editor are. 

Mr. Gordon. It is rather difficult to describe them briefly, but the 
major part of the work consists in reading manuscripts and mainly 
synopses, analyzing them and assisting the studio in finding the kind 
of stories it wants to produce. 

Mr. Tavenner. And selecting the writers for stories, does that also 
come within your duties? 

Mr. Gordon. No. I have nothing whatever to do with the hiring 
of writers. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you review the scripts which are presented? 

Mr. Gordon. I read them and write comments upon them and they 
are passed on to other people. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do those comments constitute a recommendation 
either for or against the acceptance of the story for use in screen exhi- 
bition ? 

Mr. Gordon. No, they are not concerned with the question of ac- 
ceptance. They are concerned with the question of advancing them to 
a higher stage. I do not myself determine in any way the purchase 
of any story. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand. But do you recommend in regard to 
acceptance? 

Mi-. Gordon. I recommend further consideration to someone else, 
usually. 

Mr. Tavenner. But that is a recommendation either for or against 
the particular story which you have reviewed? 

Mr. Gordon. Well, it is not necessarily a recommendation to buy a 
story, it is a recommendation that other people should see the story. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1787 

Mr. Tavenner. Meaning, of course, that it has met with your gen- 
eral approval as being a product which was worthy of acquiring? 

Mr. Gordon. Worthy of further consideration. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged in the work of an 
editor? 

Mr. Gordon. Well, I have been in my present position for a little 
over 3 years. Is that what you meant ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. ' Prior to that time what was your par- 
ticular work? 

Mr. Gordon. I was head of the reading department at Paramount 
for G years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe briefly what the duties of a reader 
are. 

Mr. Gordon. Of a reader? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Gordon. The primary work of a reader is to read literary and 
dramatic material and to synopsize it and to comment upon it. This 
is the first stage in a consideration of literary material. 

Mr. Tavenner. For how long a period of time did you engage in the 
work of a reader ? 

Mr. Gordon. Well, I don't know how to put it because I have been 
a reader at various times and assistant at various times, head of read- 
ing, and back and forth. I have been engaged in this work for ap- 
proximately 25 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gordon, a witness, Mr. Martin Berkeley, who 
appeared before this committee, identified you as a member of the 
Communist Party and in so doing stated : 

I met with him with the Screen Writers' Guild. I attended a meeting of the 
Screen Writers' Guild at which I met Don Gordon and subsequently later met 
him at the meetings of the writers' fraction. 

Was that testimony by Mr. Berkeley true or was it false? 

Mr. Gordon. Well, I have never been a member of the Screen 
Writers' Guild, except possibly at one point when the Screen Readers' 
Guild was in a sense affiliated with it. As to this testimony, or any 
response to your question, I claim the privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment which states that a witness may not be required to testify against 
himself. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was it that the Readers' Guild was affiliated 
with the Screen Writers' Guild? 

Mr. Gordon. It w T as a long time ago, but I think it was somewhere 
in 1933 that that affiliation began and it terminated somewhere in the 
next 2 or 3 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you reside in 1932 ; did you tell us that ? 

Mr. Gordon. 1932? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Gordon. I have lived in the same house for about 18 years. I'm 
not sure of the exact date. It w T as either 1932 or 1933 that I moved 
into it. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your present address ? 

Mr. Gordon. 6853 Pacific View Drive, Los Angeles, Calif. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time what was the place of your resi- 
dence ? 

Mr. Gordon. Well, for about a year or so I lived on a street called, 
I think it was, Cumberland, but I don't remember the address. 



1788 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. Cumberland Avenue? 

Mr. Gordon. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it 3961% ? 

Mr. Gordon. I don't remember. As I say, it was more than 18 
years ago. I really couldn't remember that. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand. You have no reason for believing 
that that was not the correct number, have you ? 

Mr. Gordon. I just don't recall the number. No, I'm sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have before me a copy of a Communist Party 
petition to participate in primary election. I will read part of it : 

State of California, 

County of Los Angeles: 
To the Honorable Secretary of State of the State of California : 
We, the undersigned, registered, qualified voters of the State of California, 
county of Los Angeles, present to the secretary of State this petition and declare 
that we represent a political party, the name of which is Communist Party, 
which party said electors desire to have participate in the next primary election 
to be held August 30, 1932. 

I will ask you to look at this petition and ask you to consider the 
sixth name from the bottom of the page, which will be handed to you, 
and I will ask you to read whose name appears there and the address. 
The sixth name from the bottom of the page. 

Mr. Gordon. It is a typewritten name there which is the same as 
mine, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the address ? 

Mr. Gordon. 39611/2 Cumberland, Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you sign that petition ? 

Mr. Gordon. Frankly, I have no recollection of it. I just don't 
remember it at all. It is dated, you say, 1932 ? 

Mr. Tavenner. 1932, yes, sir. 

Mr. Gordon. I'm sorry, I have no recollection of it. It's possible. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 
1932, the time of the riling of this petition ? 

Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1938, or 1939, your residence was 6853 Pacific View, 
according to your testimony of a few moments ago ? 

Mr. Gordon. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1938 or 1939 were you a member of Unit Shop 
No. 5 of the Communist Party and did you use the name of John 
Sherwood as your Communist Party name? 

Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee, in the course of its investigation, has 
ascertained that you made a number of contributions, literary contri- 
butions, to New Masses. I have in mind particularly a poem which 
appeared on April 9, 1939, issue, and articles appearing July 2, 1940 ; 
August 24, September 28, July 27, October 19, 1943; January 4, 1944; 
October 12, 1943. Would you mind stating to the committee the cir- 
cumstances under which you made those contributions to the New 
Masses, if you did so? 

Mr. Gordon. You say they were articles? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1789 

Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer the question in any case, but I just 
don't understand what you are talking about, frankly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let us not pass it 

Mr. Gordon. You said a poem ? 

Mr. Tayenner. Let us not just pass it off quite that freely. I recog- 
nize that magazines such as New Masses might publish an article 
written by the most conservative of individuals, if they chose to do it. 
But what I am asking you is to state the circumstances under which 
your contributions were used, if they were. 

Mr. Gordon. I claim the privilege of the fifth amendment and 
decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a financial supporter of New Masses? 

Mr. Gordon. I claim the same privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend any meetings which w T ere beneficial 
parties — that is, parties organized for the purpose of raising money 
for the New Masses organization? 

Mr. Gordon. I claim the same privilege and decline to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time a member of the American- 
Russian Institute? 

Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Walter. When you say "I decline to answer on the same 
grounds," you mean in every instance that you decline to answer 
because of your privileges under the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Gordon. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Walter. So we can get the record straight. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were any closed Communist Party meetings held 
in your home ? 

Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a club of the Communist 
Party known as the Meltzer, M-e-1-t-z-e-r, Club ? 

Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer on the same grounds and I claim 
the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the course of this investigation the committee 
has learned that a secret or private fund was raised for the benefit of 
the so-called white-collar strikers in the moving-picture industry in 
1945. Do you know anything about the circumstances under which 
those funds were raised? 

Mr. Gordon. Would you describe that a little more specifically, be- 
cause I really don't recognize anything about that. Describe it, 
please. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you make any contribution to a strikers' 
fund which was supposed to be a secret fund used for the benefit of 
the strikers in 1945 ? 

Mr. Gordon. I have no such recollection. I have made some con- 
tributions to a welfare fund. Is that what you are getting at? For 
the aid of families of people who were in need ; is that what you are 
referring to? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I don't know. 

Mr. Gordon. It was a public corporation. 

Mr. Tavenner. I know. 

Mr. Gordon. I am very happy to tell you that I contributed small 
sums of money during those strikes to a public corporation organized 
to do charitable work for families in need during that strike. 



1790 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. That was an open fund which the public generally, 
was invited to make donations to, was it not? 

Mr. Gordon. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, the fund that I am talking about was a secret 
or closed fund. 

Mr. Gordon. I see. Well, I decline to answer, and I claim the privi- 
lege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Nora Hallgren ? 

Mr. Gordon. I claim the privilege of the fifth amendment and de- 
cline to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. And Rube Lambert ? 

Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer and claim the privilege of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. No doubt, Mr. Gordon, you are familiar with the Fed- 
eral statute under which this committee which is before you now is 
directed to investigate subversive propaganda in the United States. 
Are you ? 

Mr. Gordon. Well, I have been sitting here for 31/4 days and I ought 
to have become a little familiar with it; yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. I know, also, therefore, that you have heard me give 
Mr. Webster's definition of the word "subversive." 

Mr. Gordon. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. What would you say as to whether or not the United 
States Congress had acted wisely in directing this committee to in- 
vestigate subversive and un-American people and propaganda in line 
with Mr. Webster's definition of what subversive means ? 

Mr. Gordon. Well, Mr. Doyle, I don't know if any comment by me 
on the wisdom of Congress would be particularly pertinent. I am no 
authority on it. I have no particular opinion to express. 

Mr. Doyle. I asked it because I recognize you as a very brilliant 
gentleman with quite a history of able authorship, and I think a person 
who could help this committee if you so desire, and I thought perhaps 
in that particular field you might help us by your considered opinion. 
I think you indicated you had written some other books. What name 
do you use, what other names, Mr. Gordon, than just Donald Gordon? 

Mr. Gordon. My writing has all been under the name of Don Gordon 
just because it is shorter. 

Mr. Doyle. Don Gordon? 

Mr. Gordon. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you ever used in any of your writings or articles 
the name John Sherwood \ 

Mr. Gordon. Not that I recall. I wrote a few short stories under 
various names at one time, but I think that was not one of them. 

Mr. Doyee. What would you recommend, if anything, that this 
committee do other than it is doing to uncover subversive propaganda 
in this country that emanates from Soviet Russia or domestically? 
What recommendation have you to give us as an American citizen? 
What further should we do? 

Mr. Gordon. Well, Mr. Doyle, you have asked my opinion, and my 
complaint is really more concerned with the methods used than any- 
thing else, frankly. My own experience with this committee is, as I 
say, the last Sy 2 days, and I have observed certain actions of the 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1791 

committee that I thought were quite improper. I am not questioning 
the legality of any statute or any legal question, but 1 have observed — 
there was the incident 1 mentioned before in regard to an attorney who 
was not a party to these hearings, was not subpenaed or who was not 
a witness who was, himself, attacked, which I think undermines the 
right to have counsel. Second, I have heard and read statements 
made by members of this committee on television, on radio, and before 
the press challenging the fifth amendment, itself. I consider this 
improper conduct on the part of this committee. I consider 

Mr. Doyle. May I 

Mr. Gordon. Just a moment. May I finish? You asked my 
opinion. 

Mr. Walter. Let him finish. 

Mr. Gordon. You asked me for my opinion. I am very disturbed 
on this point, because I feel quite strongly on it. I am only a witness 
now at this moment and yet, for a week, the public has been listening 
to the opinions of this committee on the question of the fifth amend- 
ment and other questions, which means that informatory and de- 
nunciatory statements have been made about me before I even had a 
chance to appear here. The stand that I had not yet taken was 
already challenged by this committee. I consider that improper 
conduct on the part of this committee. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, a Communist — at least, one who was 
formerly a Communist came in and gave your name as a fellow- 
Communist, and then we gave you an opportunity, and that is why 
you are here, to come in to defend yourself, and you refused to defend 
yourself hiding or claiming the privilege of the fifth amendment, and 
we don't criticize you for claiming the fifth amendment. That is one 
of the major differentiations between this country and Soviet Russia 
and other Communist nations. It is quite surprising to me, sir, that 
you should claim the fifth amendment privilege when you offer to give 
advice to this committee. Why don't you come clean like some other 
men have? Inferentially or, may I say, that we are informed that 
you have been a Communist. We are informed that you now are. If 
you are not, why don't you say you are not ? I invite you to say you 
are not. Do you deny that you were a Communist and now you are ? 

Mr. Gordon. Mr. Doyle, you also invited me to express my opinion 
of this committee. 

Mr. Doyle. That's right. 

Mr. Gordon. When I expressed it, you criticized me for expressing 
it. 

Mr. Doyle. No ; I am not criticizing you. 

Mr. Gordon. And you again attack my right under the fifth amend- 
ment, which I still consider improper conduct for a Congressman and 
a member of this committee to do. If the fifth amendment has any 
validity, then I have a right to use it and no one has any right to 
question my use of it, including you. 

Mr. Doyle. You were here without counsel 

Mr. Gordon. I explained why I was here without counsel. 

Mr. Doyle. Let me ask you again, do you deny that you are now a 
Communist ? 

Mr. Gordon. I refuse to answer, claim the privilege of the fifth 
amendment which you are attacking. 



1792 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Doyle. No ; I am not attacking the fifth amendment and don't 
you say that I am. 

Mr. Gordon. Mr. Doyle, you said I was hiding behind it. That is 
an attack. 

Mr. Doyle. I think you are hiding behind it, sir. 

Mr. Gordon. I am not hiding behind anything. 

Mr. Doyle. I think you are hiding behind the fifth amendment, 
because I think you are now a Communist. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Gordon, were you ever a member of the Ku Klux 
Klan? 

Mr. Gordon. I was not. 

Mr. Jackson. Were you ever a member of the Silver Shirts ? 

Mr. Gordon. I was not. 

Mr. Jackson. Were you ever a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Gordon. I decline to answer. I claim privilege of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. Any questions, Mr. Potter % 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Gordon, as a story editor — I believe that was the 
title of your work? 

Mr. Gordon. I am an assistant in the story department. 

Mr. Potter. If I recall your testimony, you pass on script — that 
is, to see whether that script should be recommended for further 
study by some other person ; is that right ? 

Mr. Gordon. I make suggestions for the further consideration of 
literary material. 

Mr. Potter. In other words, if you should make the suggestion that 
this material was of no value the writer of that script would be out ? 

Mr. Gordon. That is not true. 

Mr. Potter. I am asking you. I don't know. 

Mr. Gordon. Well, I realize you do not know. I realize the ques- 
tion, itself, and the previous question when I didn't go into it with 
Mr. Tavenner — really, after 4 year's investigation it reveals an as- 
tounding lack of familiarity with the way studios operate. 

Mr. Potter. We are asking for your advice. 

Mr. Gordon. I will be very happy to give it to you. There is a 
complicated process involving a number of people in every story de- 
partment, and, certainly, at least in the one I am in, to say that one 
individual's opinion is a determining factor in the recommendation 
to consider material is wrong, least of all to purchase it. 

The story department does not purchase material ; it merely passes 
it on to producers and executives who then decide what they want to 
purchase. 

Mr. Potter. Did you ever receive instructions to deny a favorable 
recommendation to a person that you considered not friendly to Com- 
munist cause ? 

Mr. Gordon. Well, this is a very complicated and loaded question. 
I will say this: If anyone had made such a recommendation to me I 
would have ignored it ou the grounds that it would have been simply 
idiocy to do any thing of that sort. It couldn't possibly be accom- 
plished and you wouldn't hold your job more than 24 hours if you 
tried it. 

Mr. Potter. I have no further questions. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1793 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Gordon, you were asked the question as to wheth- 
er or not you were a Communist in 1932 and you refused to answer 
the question. That was before the Smith Act was enacted into the 
law. It is certainly more than 5 years, which is the statutory period 
provided for in the Smith Act. Why do you feel that you would 
be incriminated if you would answer a question at to whether or not 
you were a Communist in 1932? 

Mr. Gordon. Well, I wasn't asked that question, I believe. 

Mr. Walter. Yes ; you were asked that question. 

Mr. Gordon. I was asked about some document there. 

Mr. Walter. You were asked a question, were you a Communist in 
1932? 

Mr. Gordon. Is that the question ? 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mr. Gordon. I thought it was about that petition, of which I have 
no recollection. Well, 1 don't think that I am required to give reasons 
for using the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Walter. You are not required to give a reason, but I was just 
curious about it because, under the law, you could not be prosecuted 
for committing anything short of murder and treason that was done 
in 1932. 

Mr. Gordon. Well, sir, I heard yesterday, I think it was, a brief 
controversy between Congressman Walter and eminent local attorney 
on the subject. Since opinion was so sharply divided, really, I don t 
feel qualified to pass upon the subject at this point. 

Mr. Walter. You have testified that you contributed to a fund for 
the relief of families of strikers ; which fund was it that you contrib- 
uted to? 

Mr. Gordon. It was called the Hollywood welfare fund. 

Mr. Walter. Then you declined to testify as to another fund. What 
was the name of that ? 

Mr. Gordon. No name was given. I don't know what he was talking 
about, to tell you the truth. 

Mr. Walter. All right. Any further questions, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No further questions. 

Mr. Walter. The witness may be excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Josef Mischel. 

Mr. Walter. Will you raise your right hand ? Will you swear the 
testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Mischel. I do. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Mischel, are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. Mischel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Will counsel please identify himself for the record. 

Mr. Morris. Robert Morris of Los Angeles. 

Mr. Walter. M-o-r-r-i-s? 

Mr. Morris. That is correct. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEF MISCHEL, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

ROBERT S. MORRIS, JR. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir? 

Mr. Mischel. Josef Mischel, M-i-s-c-h-e-1. J-o-s-e-p-h. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel ? 



1794 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Mischel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I'm sorry, I didn't recall that counsel had been 
identified. 

Where and when were you born, Mr. Mischel ? 

Mr. Mischel. On March 2, 1899, in what was then the Austrian 
province of Galicia. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to this country ? 

Mr. Mischel. I believe it was in November 1935. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen % 

Mr. Mischel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you naturalized? 

Mr. Mischel. In October 1941. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where? 

Mr. Mischel. In Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where have you lived since 1941 ? 

Mr. Mischel. In Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live between 1935 and 1941 ? 

Mr. Mischel. I believe it was about 8 months in New York, 1 year 
in San Francisco, and then I moved down here and I have lived here 
ever since. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state for the committee briefly what your 
educational training has been. 

Mr. Mischel. I went to grammar school in the town where I was 
born, I was then sent to a gymnasium, g-y-m-n-a-s-i-u-m, in a nearby 
city. Then my family moved to Vienna, Austria, and there I finished 
gymnasium. Upon which I was drafted into the Austrian Army. 

The early part of 1918 I was pulled out of a front regiment and 
sent on a government scholarship to study medicine at the University 
of Lwow. After three semesters my sponsor died, the Austro-Hun- 
garian monarchy collapsed. I found myself in the midst of another 
war which lasted, if I am not mistaken, up to the middle of 1919. 
When communications were opened I went back to Vienna and en- 
rolled at the University of Vienna at the Academy of Foreign Trade. 
I finished my formal training at about 1922 or 1923. However, I 
must say that around 1935, upon arrival in this country, I went through 
a completely new school of thought, upon which I would like to com- 
ment if the committee will let me. It was not formal schooling. 

Mr. Tavenner. We have no objection. 

Mr. Mischel. Gentlemen, when a man at the age of 36 virtually 
discovers America he goes through a process similar to the pioneers 
of the days when the American democracy was born, because for the 
first time that he truly gets in contact with it he learns of the lives, the 
works, and the deeds of these men who have formed and molded the 
thoughts and the face of this great country. 

I came here at that time with a contract to write articles for a 
European magazine. I did not know the language, I did not know 
the country, I did not know the people. I have heard of people who 
traveled in America for 6 months and wrote a definitive work on 
America. I found myself in a position where I could not even write 
five words on America. I realized that unless one becomes a part 
of this country and these people one cannot write about them. And 
I spent nearly 5 years in studying the language, learning of the lit- 
erature and of the history of this country, and whatever makes up a 
man, his thoughts, his conscience, his sense of responsibility, where 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1795 

I believe it deeply is influenced by the reading of the writings of the 
men, some of whom have been mentioned here and some not, Thomas 
Jefferson, Tom Paine, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Mischel, I didn't know when you were given per- 
mission to tell about your education in the United States that you 
were going into a long dissertation. Did you go to school after you 
came to the United States? 

Mr. Mischel. Mr. Chairman. I said it was not a formal education, 
I made that statement. 

Mr. Walter. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner, and ask the questions. 
Mr. Tavenner. As part of your studies did you engage in the study 
of Marxism, in addition to Jefferson and the others you mentioned? 
Mr. Mischel. In those years ? 
Mr. Tavenner. Any years. 

Mr. Mischel. Mr. Chairman, I studied economics, and the history 
of economics, and of economic thought at the Academy of Foreign 

Trade in Vienna and the Academy 

Mr. Walter. You were asked the question of whether or not you 
studied Marxism after you got to the United States. You can answer 
that. Did you or did you not ? 
Mr. Micshel. May I ask counsel ? 
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. W t alter. It is certainly not a crime to study Marxism. I have 
a daughter, a sophomore in college, who is studying it now. 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Walter. Did you or did you not study Marxism after you came 
to the United States ? 

Mr. Mischel. Gentlemen, that opens a can of beans. It is getting 
into the question through the side door. 

Mr. Tavenner. No, it isn't. It is proceeding directly to the point 
in issue here. It is no side door. 

Mr. Mischel. I have mentioned when I was talking about my 
education in America, I was talking about the early years of my 
presence here. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. And I asked about your later years. So will 
you please answer the question? Have you studied Marxism in the 
United States? 

Mr. Mischel. In view of the implications contained in the question, 
sir, and without denying or affirming any of the allegations contained 
in the question, I shall at this point claim the privilege and the 
protection of the fifth amendment, specifically the section which says 
that no man shall give testimony against himself. 
Mr. Walter. In any criminal matter. 
Mr. Mischel. In any criminal matter. 
Mr. Walter. That's right. 

Mr. Mischel. That is in any matter which might lead to criminal 
prosecution. 

Mr. Walter. What criminal matter are we engaged in prosecuting 
at the moment, and what criminal charge are you afraid will be pre- 
ferred against you in the event that you answer the simple question of 
what you studied in 1935 or 1936 ? 

Mi'. Mischel. Sir, I shall stand on my privilege. 
Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession '. 

81595— 51— pt. 5— — 11 



1796 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Mischel. I am a film writer and for the past year or so I was 
also working as a story editor. 

Mr. Tavenner. As what ? 

Mr. Mischel. Story editor. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you worked as a film writer and a 
story editor? 

Mr. Mischel. I began to write for films around 1943. I believe it 
was in the latter part of the year. As a story editor, as I have stated, 
I have been working for approximately 1 year. I do not remember 
the exact date on which I was employed in that capacity. 

Mr. Tavenner. What are the principal screen credits which you 
have received as a screen writer ? 

Mr. Mischel. As well as I can remember, and I may leave some 
out, there was a picture called Mademoiselle Fifi. The Isle of the Dead, 
My Own True Love, Dangerous Woman, something about Bowery 
Boys, some musical comedy. That is as far as motion pictures are 
concerned. I have written a considerable amount of screen plays 
for television. 

Mr. Tavenner. The investigation that the committee has conducted 
shows that there was held in October 1943, a writers conference under 
the "auspices of the University of California and the Hollywood 
Writers' Mobilization. 

According to a program for that congress, you, Josef Mischel, were 
a member of the general committee and chairman of the Committee 
on Writers in Exile. Is that correct ( 

Mr. Mischel. In view of the fact that the Writers' Mobilization 
was cited as subversive, I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. David Raksin testified before the committee 
that he, too, occupied a position with the Writers* Congress which was 
held in 1943 and that then the Hollywood Writers* Mobilization spon- 
sored a pamphlet or magazine known as the Hollywood Quarterly, 
and without consent or approval on lfis part carried his name on cer- 
tain committees appearing on the frontispiece or on the editorial page, 
I have forgotten which, of that quarterly. 1 would like to ask you 
if your name also appeared as a member of the advisory committee of 
the Hollywood Quarterly and whether it was used in the same way 
that Mr. Raksin testified his name Avas used, or whether you actually 
had any function to perform in connection with that quarterly? 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Mischel. I have no function to perform with that quarterly, as 
far as I can remember. I had no editorial function at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, you do recall that your name was used as a 
member of the advisory committee on motion pictures in that quar- 
terly, do you not? 

Mr. Mischel. I don't recall right now. You might want to show 
it to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will ask that the April 1947 issue of that publica- 
tion be shown the witness for the purpose of refreshing his recollec- 
tion. Do you see the appearance there of your name as a member 
of the advisory committee ( 

Mr. Mischel. I see the appearance of my name. 

Mr. Tavenner. On motion pictures? 

Mr. Mischel. Yes. 



COxMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1797 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee the circumstances 
under which your name was so used ? 

Mr. Mischel. In view of the fact that the Holly wood Writers' 
Mobilization is one of the sponsors of that program I will decline 
to answer the question — of that magazine, I mean. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that you were ap- 
pointed to a committee of the Hollywood Writers' Mobilization to 
help bring about an alliance of the Hollywood Writers' Mobilization 
and an organization in Moscow called VOKS, V-O-K-S, whereby there 
would be cultural material exchanged between the two groups. Do 
you recall that ? 

Mr. Mischel. Inasmuch as this is a related question I shall decline. 
But may I also remind you that there have been, during the period 
of war, many attempts at bringing about some sort of an understand- 
ing between cutural groups of all countries — of all allied countries. 
Mr. Tavenner. Well, let us understand a little more about the 
meaning of VOKS, V-O-K-S. Will you tell the committee what you 
understand was the purpose of that organization? 

Mr. Mischel. I don't even know what V-O-X stands for. 
Mr. Tavenner. But you know the purposes — you know that V-O- 
K-S was an abbreviation of the Russian name bv which the organ- 
ization was known? 

Mr. Mischel. I do not recall anything of the sort. 
Mr. Tavenner. Had you ever heard of VOKS before ? 
Mr. Mischel. I have heard of FOX, but I do not recall ever having 
heard of VOKS. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name that you have heard? I 
am not certain I understood you. 
Mr. Mischel. F-O-X studio. 

Mr. Taa^enner. I assume we have all heard of FOX. 
Mr. Mischel. Well, the other one I misspelled when I repeated 
it the first time, because I said V-O-X and you corrected me by saying 
it is V-O-K-S, if I am not mistaken. 

(At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the 
hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Then I misunderstood you again. I thought you 
said F-O-X. You said V-O-X; is that it \ 
Mr. Mischel. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let's get together on this one. 

Mr. Mischel. Let's get that straight. When you asked me for the 
first time and I answered you, I said, "I have never heard of an organ- 
ization, to the best of my knowledge, that was called V-O-X." Now, 
in coming back at me you said it is V-O-K-S, which was news to me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Mischel. Xow, when you again repeated the question I said I 
knew of FOX but I didn't know, to the best of my recollection of 
VOKS. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, outside of describing FOX as one of the 
animal kingdom, what did you understand by VOKS? 

Mr. Mischel. Studio. A man who lives in Hollywood always thinks 
of studios. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am speaking here of an organization in Russia, 
which I am certain yon understand. 



1798 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Mischel. Yes, by this time I understand. I have said that I 
have no recollection of any such organization. However, inasmuch 
as the activities were — or any activities with the Hollywood Writers' 
Mobilization, or any subsection is connected with it I have claimed 
the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your privilege of the fifth amendment, I feel cer- 
tain, is waived when you stated you do not know anything about it. 
So let me question you a little further to see if I can refresh your 
recollection about the meaning of VOKS and the part it played. 
VOKS is an abbreviation, an abbreviated reference 

(The witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. That's all right if you desire to consult your counsel. 

Mr. Mischel. May I have one clarity — may I get one thing clear? 
In saying that I do not recollect knowing anything about VOKS you 
said I have waived the privilege. I waived the privilege of what? 

Mr. Tavenner. I understood you to say that you claimed the priv- 
ilege of the fifth amendment, that is that you would not testify relat- 
ing to the term "VOKS" because to do so might tend to incriminate 
you. 

Mr. Mischel. I am sorry, I did not say that. I said I would not 
testify to anything relating to Hollywood Writers' Mobilization or any 
of its subsections. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then I am entirely wrong. I am asking you about 
VOKS, so will you tell us what you know about VOKS ? 

Mr. Mischel. Sir, I know nothing about VOKS. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then let me see if I can remind you or refresh your 
recollection. VOKS is the abbreviated reference to the All Union 
Society for Cultural Relations with Foreigners. That is a Russian 
organization, an organization with headquarters in the Soviet Union, 
created for the sole purpose of setting up branches in all countries 
for the purpose of establishing closer cultural relations with Russia. 
You told us a moment ago that you recall the activity that existed 
at this time about cultural relations with Russia. 

Mr. Mischel. Sir, I did not sav that. I did not sav that I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your reference? 

Mr. Mischel. As far as I remember, I said I should like to remind 
you that there had been at that time many attempts at 

Mr. Walter. During the war. 

Mr. Mischel. During the war — at understanding each other in 
some sort of an exchange of cultural knowledge. That I cannot 
document, I am not referring to anything specific. I am referring to 
a rather dim memory of times that have passed quite some time ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is why I am addressing this matter to your 
attention, to see if you do not recall the exchange of cultural informa- 
tion between a committee of the Hollywood Writers' Mobilization 
committee, to which we had understood you had been appointed, with 
this organization in the Soviet Union. 

Mr. Mischel. I have already stated that I shall not answer ques- 
tions relating to the Hollywood Writers' Mobilization, or any of its 
subdivisions. As far as I personally am concerned I have no recol- 
lection of having had any direct personal relationship to VOKS, or 
whatever the name may be. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me go a little further to see if I can refresh 
your recollection. As stated a moment ago, it was the purpose of this 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1799 

organization, established in the Soviet Union, to have branches in 
all of the countries of the world. The American branch of that organ- 
ization, the name of the American branch has been changed from time 
to time and the first organization or branch founded m the United 
States was back as early as 1024 and was known :is the Friends of 
Soviet Russia. This was followed by the Friends of the Soviet Union, 
American Council on Soviet Relations, American Friends of the Soviet 
Union, Congress of American-Soviet Friendship, and the National 
Council of American-Soviet Friendship. Now, those w T ere the 
branches formed in this country of the All Union Society for Cultural 
Relations with Foreigners established in Moscow. Now, my question 
again i^: After this definition and recital of the organization whether 
or not you had any connection with the exchange of cultural informa- 
tion with the Soviet Union. 

Mr. Mischel. May I ? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes. 

( The witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Mischel. If I am not mistaken, all the organizations that vou 
have mentioned in this country as being affiliated with VOKS are on 
the list of subversive organizations. 1, therefore, claim the privilege 
on that matter. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did you ever use the name Peter Warner, 
W-a-r-n-e-r? 

Mr. Mischel. Not to my recollection. The only Peter Weiner I 
know is a little boy that goes to school with mine. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Does what? 

Mr. Mischel. I say, not to my recollection. The only Peter Weiner 
[ know is a little boy who goes to school with mine. 

Mr. Tavenxer. How do you spell the name that you were refer- 
ring to ? 

Mr. Mischel. I'm sorry I even said it. I shouldn't have been drag- 
ging in a 6i/>-y ear-old boy in here. 

Mr. Walter. Now, will you answer the question? 

Mr. Mischel. Yes, I will answer it. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Yes. I think we should clear that up. 

Mr. Mischel. I should not have tried to be facetious. Sorry. 
W-e-i-n-e-r. 

Mr. Tayexxer. Well, the name that I have referred to was 
W-a-r-n-e-r. If you misunderstood my pronunciation, I'm sorry. 

Mr. Mischel. Well, my original answer still stands. I have no 
recollection of ever using a name like that. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did you have a name other than your own which 
you have used at any time ? 

Mr. Mischel. To the best of my knowledge 

Mr. Tavexxer. Other than a pen name, let us say. 

Mr. Mischel. To the best of my recollection. I have not. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you acquainted with John Howard Lawson '. 

Mr. Mischel. I decline to answer on the ground stated previously. 

Mr. Walter. By that, you mean that you feel that the fifth amend- 
ment offers you some protection so that you don't have to answer 
that question ; is that right ? 

Mr. Mischel. I do not have to answer the question if there is a pos- 
sibility" of self-incrimination. 



1800 COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Walter. Now, let me read the fifth amendment to you, and 
then I will ask you to tell me what part of it you think is applicable : 

No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, 
unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising 
in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service, in time of 
war or public danger — 

That theory does not apply ? 
Mr. Mischel. No. 
Mr. Walter (reading) : 

nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy 
of life or limb — 

That does not apply ? 

Mr. Mischel. That's right. 
Mr. Walter (reading) : 

nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor 
be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law 

Mr. Mischel. It is the first part of it. 

Mr. Walter. Oh. And you feel that you are now testifying in a 
criminal case and that you are being asked to testify against your- 
self; is that right? 

Mr. Mischel. Mr. Walter, that is not the case. 

Mr. Walter. Well, if it isn't the case, why don't you answer the 
question ? 

Mr. Mischel. I am not in court. 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mr. Mischel. I am testifying under oath. 

Mr. Walter. That's right. 

Mr. Mischel. And I may have reasonable apprehension that this 
testimony may lead to prosecution, even though not to conviction. 

Mr. Walter. I am sure I can't follow your reasoning, but that is 
beside the point. Proceed, Mr. Tavernner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time advised or directed to or- 
ganize a fund, a private fund to be kept secret, the proceeds from 
which were to be used in the Hollywood strike of 1945 ? 

Mr. Mischel. May I answer that with a certain fullness ? I should 
like to. 

Mr. Tavenner. Pardon me. I don't understand you. 

Mr. Mischel. I have not been advised, directed, or whatever else 
you mention to organize any secret fund for anything, let alone for 
the strike that you mentioned. I have, however, contributed and 
solicited funds for a charitable welfare organization that was es- 
tablished under the laws of the State of California that was tax- 
exempt in California and also tax-exempt for Federal taxes. 

Mr. Walter. What was the name of it, please? 

Mr. Mischel. I believe — I don't remember exactly. It was either 
Hollywood Welfare Association or Hollywood Welfare Fund. I 
find myself in a very curious position, testifying to that. You see, 
to a man of my experience, past experience, it is strange to be called 
before this committee to testify on matters of welfare and charity, 
because before I came to this country, I would say that one of the 
outstanding qualities known abroad, as far as the American Na- 
tion is concerned, is the charity and welfare. 

Mr. Tavenner. But not as a secret fund? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1801 

Mr. Mischel. I did not speak of a secret fund, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. But I did. 

Mr. Mischel. I was speaking of an open fund. I denied any 
knowledge of a secret fund, as far as this particular matter is con- 
cerned. 

Mr. Tavexxer. My only question related to the existence of a se- 
cret fund. 

Mr. Mischel. I'm sorry. That was the only one that I knew, and 
that is the one I wanted to testify to. I do not know of any other. 

Mr. Tavexxer. John Howard Lawson — did John Howard Lawson 
ever confer with you about soliciting funds to be handled secretly in 
connection with the strike? 

Mr. Mischel. Sir, I have already declined a question concerning 
John Howard Lawson. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. Mischel, in the course of the testimony of Mr. 
Martin Berkeley you were mentioned as a person known to him to be 
a member of the Communist Party. Now, was he truthful in that 
statement or not? 

Mr. Mischel. I shall decline to answer that question on the ground 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner; You have stated that you were naturalized in 1941 

Mr. Mischel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Were you a member of the Communist Party at 
the time you were naturalized? 

Air. Mischel. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Air. Tavexxer. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Mischel. May I confer with counsel? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes. 

( The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Mischel. Mr. Tavenner, you failed to ask me one question 
that has been asked before of other witnesses, and I will start with 
the answer to that, but I will lead up to the answer of this present 
question, if I may, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Answer Mr. Tavenner's question and then you can 
make any explanation you care to. 

Mr. Mischel. It is related. That is why I wanted 

Mr. Walter. Answer the question and then you can make any ex- 
planation you care to make. 

Mr. Mischel. I am not a member of the Communist Party, but 
what I wanted to tell you is this: when I received a subpena, within 
2 or 3 days of receiving it I resigned my position with the company 
in which I held the job as a story editor. I did it voluntarily. I had 
reasons that were personal, which I would not mind telling you if 
you should so desire. In that conversation or, rather, the conversa- 
tion previous to that, I made a voluntary statement to my employers, 
m which I said that in taking employment as a story editor for 
that program or at the time of taking the employment as story editor 
of that program, and I am not aware of the exact date — it was some 
time in September or October — that at that time 

Mr. Walter. What year? 

Mi-. Mischel. Last year. That at that time I was not a member of 
the Communist Party, and I have not been been a member of the Com- 
munist Party from that day on. 

Mr. Tavexxer. What date? 



1802 COMMUXISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Walter. September or October of last year. 

Mr. Mischel. September or October 1950. I don't remember the 
exact date. I have purposely repeated the statement here. 

Mr. Ta vender. Well, I am very glad to know that you are not at 
this time a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Mischel. Sir, I said I am not a member of the Communist 
Party. That was my answer to your original question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. How were you employed immediately before 
accepting your employment which began in September or October 
of 1950? 

Mr. Mischel. I was a free-lance writer since — let me start with the 
early part. I become a reader at EKO some time in the early part of 
1942; I believe it was in February. I stayed on in that job for ap- 
proximately a year and a half. I am not aware of the exact time any 
more. I was then made a writer and stayed in that job at RKO for 
approximately a year and a half. On leaving RKO I entered upon 
a career as a free-lance writer in Hollywood. That means a few 
weeks work and a few weeks out of work. Sometimes you work 
longer and sometimes the intermittent periods are longer than the 
times to work. For about 2 years I was under contract to Paramount. 
Those were the years, if I am not mistaken, of 1946 or 1947. Then 
again I started free lancing, and so I did up to the time that I became 
story editor. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, I was impressed by your statement that 
you were no longer — that you were not a member of the Communist 
Party beginning with your employment in September or October 1950, 
as a screen editor. 

Mr. Mischel. Story editor. 

Mr. Tavenner. Story editor, I mean. 

Mr. Mischel. It may be a euphemism, but that was the title. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask you why it was that you ceased to become 
a member of the Communist Party at that particular time? 

Mr. Mischel. Sir, I did not say I had been before. 

Mr. Tavenner. So what is your purpose in telling your employer 
tli at you had not been a member of the Communist Party since Septem- 
ber 1950 ? 

Mr. Mischel. It may be strange to you, but my working relation 
with the people in the company was a very happy one, which is one of 
the reasons why I resigned when I received this subpena. I did not 
want to leave that job with any implications or inferences that, by 
the way, may be drawn here from whatever my testimony will say. I 
did not want those men with whom I worked closely to believe that 
I had withheld information from them. 1 know you are going to tiy 
to trip me over on that. I simply did not want to leave that job with 
any doubts in their minds as to what nry attitude had been while I 
was working with them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, that was very commendable, and I am not at 
all attempting to trip you in any manner. I am only after the facts. 

Mr. Mischel. I will tell you as many facts as I can, and I shall de- 
cline answering wherever there is danger of self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you were not a member of the Communist Party 
from September or October 1950, when you became employed as a 
story editor, were yon a member of the Communist Party immediate- 
ly prior to your employment? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 



1803 



Mr. Mischel. I decline to answer this question on the ground of the 
fifth amendment. . . . , 

Mr Twenner. Well, had there been any change m your ideological 
thinking at the time of your employment as a story editor from what 

it had been in the past I , . . , ■ 1 \v ,11 i 

Mr. Mischel. Now you are beginning to probe my mind. W i U, 1 

still must decline— I still will decline any questions pertaining to the 

period previous to the one 1 have mentioned. 

Mr Tavenner. I believe I asked you the question which you have 

not vet answered as to whether or not Mr. Martin Berkeley was telling 

the truth when he said he knew you to be a member of the Commu- 

'mi-. Mischel. As far as I remember, I declined to answer that. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Jackson ? , , 

Mr Jackson. Mr. Mischel, you have taken your stand upon the 
fifth amendment and during the course of your testimony it has been 
read to you. I assume you are familiar or you were familiar with 
it before you came in. Are you also familiar with the fourth and 
sixth amendments to the Constitution ? _ 

Mr. Mischel. Mr. Jackson, I was questioned as to my knowledge 
of the amendments when I became a citizen. ■ 

Mr. Jackson. Then that makes it very simple for you to answer 
the question. Are you familiar % 

Mr. Mischel. May I answer 

Mr. Jackson. Are you familiar with the contents of the fourth and 
sixth amendments immediately preceding and following the faith* 

Mr Mischel. Mr. Jackson, one does not study up on the legal docu- 
ment until it comes up in one's own life. I am quite sure that among 
the audience here you would find very few who would also be able 
to answer that question and yet by sitting here they knew what the 
fifth amendment means. . . 

Mr Jackson. Of course, the people who are sitting m the audience 
have not taken their position upon the fifth amendment and, there- 
fore, have had no necessity to go to the Constitution and determine 
which one covered their particular case. 

Mr. Mischel. That is perfectly true. 

Mr Jackson. The point I make is that it is of more than passing 
moment that vour interest seems to have centered entirely on the pro- 
vision of the fifth amendment which covered the activity upon which 
you anticipated you would be questioned. 

Mr. Mischel. The last few days I must admit that was so. 
Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 
Mr. Walter. Any questions, Mr. Potter? 

Mr. Potter. Mr.' Mischel, it is difficult to understand your testi- 
mony, which is much like a witness, T believe, we had earlier this 
moriiino- who now at the present time denies any membership in the 
Communist Partv. We, as an instrument of Government, are seeking 
information in order to aid us in better understanding an enemy 
which we are sending men to fight today. It is a matter of securing 
intelligent information. Now. with vour citizenship, you assume 
certain obligations as a citizen. The boy next door to you is being 



1804 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

drafted and sent to Korea to fight international communism there. 
We are asking you to tell us what little information you might have 
concerning the Communist menace as you might know it in the United 
States. 

Mr. Mischel. Is that a question ? 

Mr. Potter. Now, I am thinking — I am just bringing it to your 
attention as fairness among citizens. One boy is being drafted and 
you are sitting there hiding behind the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Mischel. I will not enter into an argument about hiding behind 
the fifth amendment or standing on the fifth amendment, but let me 
tell you this, Mr. Potter: I have spent long four sleepless weeks 
probing my conscience and my mind and my intelligence and my 
experience, to find an answer to the dilemma which I am facing. It 
was not an easy thing to do, and it was a responsible thing to do. I 
feel a responsibility toward this country as much as I feel a respon- 
sibility toward myself. To explain why I have taken the stand of 
giving the answers would take a rather long time, because reasoning 
of 4 weeks cannot be brought down to the level and expressions of a 
magazine, of a magazine like Quick. I doubt that this committee 
would be patient with me to explain at all. However, I could give 
you a shorter answer. I have — and I know that the name has been 
looked upon with a certain amount of suspicion lately when his name 
came up. I don't mean the name, but when the name came up. I 
have a quotation from Thomas Jefferson. If you want me to, I will 
read it. 

Mr. Walter. Don't bother. #We are probably well acquainted with 
Jefferson. 

Mr. Mischel. Very well, sir, but it would have given the answer to 
Mr. Potter in a very shortened manner. 

Mr. Potter. The boy that has been drafted and sent to Korea 
would also like to make an explanation. He doesn't get that oppor- 
tunity. He goes. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Mischel, you stated that when you took the last 
employment you had in September or October of 1950 you were not 
a Communist. 

Mr. Mischel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Were you a Communist on the 26th of June 1950 ? 

Mr. Mischel. I decline to answer, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Were you a Communist on the 27th of June 1950? 

Mr. Mischel. I decline to answer, sir. 

Mr. Walter. That was the day after the attack in Korea. 

Mr. Mischel. I was well aware of the date, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Anything further, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No questions. 

Mr. Walter. The witness will be excused. 

Mr. Mischel. Thank you. 

Mr. Walter. At this point the committee will take a recess of 10 
minutes. 

(A short recess was here taken.) 

Mr. Walter. The committee will be in order. 

Mr. Tavenner, who is your witness? 

Mr. Tavenner. Lester Koenig. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1805 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Koenig, will you raise your right hand. Do you 
swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Koenig. I do. 

Mr. Walter. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Koenig. I am, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Will counsel please identify himself for the record. 

Mr. Rose. Edward M. Rose, Beverly Hills, Calif. 

TESTIMONY OF LESTER KOENIG, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

EDWARD M. ROSE 

Mr. Tavexxer. What is your name, please, sir? 

Mr. Koenig. Lester Koenig, K-o-e-n-i-g. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Koenig? 

Mr. Koenig. I was born in New York City, December 3, 1917. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Koenig. In Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you resided in Los Angeles? 

Mr. Koenig. Thirteen years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived here continuously during that peri- 
od of time other than temporary trips? 

Mr. Koenig. Well, with the exception of some temporary trips 
overseas during the war; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you in the armed services? 

Mr. Koenig. Three years, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the period of time? What was the year 
when you went into the service and the year of your discharge? 

Mr. Koenig. October 1942 through December or November 1945, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state for the committee briefly what your 
education has been. 

Mr. Koenig. I was educated in the public schools of New York City ; 
I went to the Horace Mann School for Boys, which is a prep school in 
New York City ; and I graduated with a degree of bachelor of arts 
from Dartmouth College in 1937. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation or profession? 

Mr. Koenig. I am under contract as a writer and/or associate 
producer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean screen writer? 

Mr. Koenig. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by associate producer? 

Mr. Koenig. Associate producer of motion pictures, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged in that type of 
work ( 

Mr. Koenig. I signed that contract just about the time of my dis- 
charge from the armed services, sir, in 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a screen writer what are the principal screen 
credits you have received ? 

Mr. Koenig. Actually my name doesn't appear on the picture be- 
cause the Army didn't have the policy of crediting its writers, but it 
is listed in the record books that I wrote a film called The Memphis 
Belle, of which I am very proud. 



1806 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 



Mr. Tavexxer. During the time von were in the service, then, vou 
were engaged in moving-picture production? 

Mr. Koenig. Yes, sir. For the Army Air Forces. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Are there any other pictures during that period of 
time when you were in the service which you produced? 

Mr. Koexig. I made numerous films for the Army Air Forces and 
another film which was released to the general public was called Thun- 
derbolt, the story of the P-47 fighter bombers in Corsica, Italy, dur- 
ing the Italian campaign of 1944. 

Mr. Tavexxer. What are your duties as assistant producer? 

Mr. Koexig. Associate producer. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Associate producer, excuse me. 

Mr. Koexig. Well, my duties are very, very numerous and hard to 
define. They pertain to all the phases of making a motion picture 
from start to finish. In other words, I am assistant or associate to 
a producer and as such I must concern myself with whatever prob- 
lems he has, and whatever he tells me to handle, whatever chores come 
up, whatever situations arise during the making of the picture, and 
I assure you they can be very many and unexpected. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Then I assume your position is equivalent to that 
of the top executive of a production concern. 

Mr. Koexig. Well, sir, if you have an assistant I would say your 
relationship to your assistant would be the relationship that I would 
have to a producer. He would assist you in various matters. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I assure you that is very important. 

Mr. Koexig. Yes, sir. I am not denying that it can be important, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavexner. In the course of the performance of your duties did 
you hire or discharge individuals in connection with the productions 
you were interested in ? 

Mr. Koexig. No, sir. That was not my function, sir. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you required to pass upon contracts with 
writers ? 

Mr. Koenig. No, sir. We have a legal department 

Mr. Tavenner. What are some of the duties that you perform? 

Mr. Koenig. Well, sir, a picture starts in many ways. Some one 
has an idea that it might be good to make a film about a certain sub- 
ject, or someone presents a book to the studio, or a play, or writers who 
are on the staff at the studio come up with something which the front 
office thinks might make a good film. One can't say exactly how it 
happens, but one day you find you are assigned, by a mutual agree- 
ment with the front office of your studio, to work on a certain picture. 
Then you consult with writers as to the preparation of the script. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Aren't you in the front office yourself ? 

Mr. Koexig. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavexner. All right. 

Mr. Koexig. Then you advise and counsel with the writers and 
with the director and you work with the casting office in the casting 
of the picture, and they bring people to you and you perhaps may 
think of some people that might be good to play the various roles. 
You work with the art department in the construction of the sets, and 
you work with the production office in planning the production, work 
with them in procuring the services of cameramen and technical per- 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1S07 

sonnel such as may be needed. You work on the preparation of 
budgets of films in an effort to keep the costs down and with the film as 
it goes on the floor of the stages to be shot, and you have numerous 
duties in connection with that to see that the production rolls smoothly 
from a technical point of view. Then the film is finally shot and you 
participate to a certain degree in the editing of the film in collabora- 
tion, of course, with your producer, the director, your editors and so 
forth and so on, which would include the various executives of the 
studio who are concerned with the editing of the film. Then, of 
course, it is taken away from you and shipped to New York and that 
is the last you see of it. 

Mr. Tavenner. The Daily People's World of January 21, 1941, at 
page 5, carried a news item to the effect that Les Koenig, L-e-s is the 
way it appears there, had been elected to the board of the Hollywood 
chapter of the League of American Writers. Is the "Les Koenig" re- 
ferred to there the same person as yourself? 

Mr. Koenig. May I see the 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Koenig. Well, sir, I have used or been known as Les Koenig, 
which is a diminutive of Lester. In regard to the question which you 
have asked me about the organization named, in view of the fact that 
it has been listed as a subversive organization, I shall have, and do 
decline, to answer the question, claiming my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. The Daily Worker of April 5, 1941, at page 7, car- 
ries an article entitled "In Defense of Culture." This article is a call 
to the Fourth Congress of the League of American Writers. Among 
the signers of this call appears the name of Lester Koenig. Will you 
examine the article, please, and state whether or not you signed the 
call for the Fourth Congress of the League of American AVriters? 

Mr. Koenig. I decline to answer on the previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you participate in any of the American Writer 
Congress sessions at any time, any of the sessions of the American 
Writers Congress? 

Mr. Koenig. Is that the organization 

Mr. Tavenner. The same organization I have been asking you 
about. 

Mr. Koenig. I decline to answer on the same grounds, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with the development of the 
American Writers' Congress, that is the various congresses which 
were called in the United States? 

Mr. Koenig. Would counsel please refresh my recollection? 

Mr. Tavenner. The call to the First American Writers' Congress 
was issued in 1935 

Mr. Koenig. Well,, sir, at that time I was not a writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. And there was a suggestion that there be formed 
a League of American Writers and the organization to be formed was 
to be affiliated with the International Union of Revolutionary Writers. 
In other words, the League of American Writers was affiliated from 
its very inception with the International Union of Revolutionary 
Writers. Now, among those who signed this call, that is for the first 
group, were such well-known Communists as Earl Browder, Theodore 
Dreiser, Joseph Freeman, Michael Gold ' 1| "ivnce Hatha way. Joseph 



1808 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

North, M. G. Olgin, Isadore. Schneider, Alexander Trachtenberg, Ella 
Winter, and Richard Wright. The first chairman — I am doing this 
to refresh your recollection 

Mr. Koexig. Sir, I think you've identified the organization suffi- 
ciently for me. 

Mr. Tavexxer. The first chairman was Waldo Frank. At the 
third congress held in 1939 the name of Waldo Frank was absent in 
the record of all the proceedings. Waldo Frank had committed the 
unpardonable sin of doubting the wisdom of the Soviet Union. He 
had written a letter to the New Republic suggesting an international 
labor and social socialist inquiry into the Moscow purge trials. Do 
you have any knowledge of your own that you may have acquired 
regarding Waldo Frank's purge from the League of American Writ- 
ers because of his desire to look into and investigate the Moscow purge 

trials? 

Mr. Koexig. In view of the fact that the question implies, or would 
imply, knowledge of that organization, and since I have already 
declined to answer questions about my possible connection with that 
organization, I do decline to answer under the protection of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Are you familiar with a magazine by the name of 
the Clipper, which was published under the auspices of the Holly- 
wood Chapter of the League of American Writers? 

Mr. Koexig. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Is is not a fact that you were a member of the 
editorial board of that magazine? 

Mr. Koexig. Decline to answer on the same grounds, sir. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you ever affiliated with the Committee for the 
First Amendment? 

Mr. Koexig. I decline to answer on the same grounds, sir. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I would like to show you a statement issued by the 
Committee for the First Amendment appearing in the People's Daily 
World of October 29, 1947, and at page 3, wherein the signers say they 
are "disgusted and outraged by the continued attempt of the House 
Committee on Un-American Activities to smear the motion-picture 

industry. 1 ' 

You will note there that your name appears as a signer of this state- 
ment. Will you identify tlie fact- that the name Lester Koenig appears 
there ? 

Mr. Keoxig. Yes, sir ; it does so appear. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Well, did you sign that statement ? 

Mr. Koexig. I decline to answer, sir, on the previously stated 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Is it not a fact that in your knowledge that that 
action was taken by the Committee of the First Amendment in part, 
at least, for the reason that by the criticism you leveled at this com- 
mittee, that that criticism might tend to in some way delay or maybe 
prevent entirely the disclosure to the public of persons who were mem- 
bers of it and who were members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Koexig. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavexxer. During the course of this hearing, Mr. Martin 
Berkeley has appeared as a witness and has testified regarding certain 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1809 

fraction meetings. You understand the meaning of fraction meetings, 
do you not ? 

Mr. Koenig. Well, sir, I have been under subpena here since Wednes- 
day and I have heard it described and defined in this committee room. 

Mr. Tavenner. By "fraction meetings" is meant meetings of mem- 
bers of the Communist Party who were members, say, of an organi- 
zation like the Screen Writers' Guild or any other organization known 
as a Communist front, and in the course of his description of these 
fraction meetings, Mr. Berkeley testified that Lester Koenig. who is 
now an associate producer, attended those meetings with him as a 
member of the Communist Party. Now, was Mr. Berkeley telling this 
committee the truth about that matter? 

Mr. Koenig. I decline to answer, sir, on the previously stated 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Koenig. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the previously 
stated grounds. However, I will say that I am not a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are not a member now? 

Mr. Koenig. I am not a member of the Communist Party, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, that means now, doesn't it? 

Mr. Koenig. That means today I am not a member of the Commu- 
nist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Today? What about yesterday? 

Mr. Koenig. I decline to answer that question, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What will it be tomorrow? 

Mr. Koenig. I have no intention of joining the Communist Party 
tomorrow, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any other business or occupation be- 
sides that of being a moving-picture producer? 

Mr. Koenig. Well, sir, I have certain investments and certain out- 
side interests ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are they related to the moving-picture industry? 

Mr. Koenig. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Or the radio or entertainment field? 

Mr. Koenig. In general, in the entertainment field ; yes, sir. I have 
been in show business for a long time. Most of my interests are in 
show business. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then as we are investigating the extent of Commu- 
nists activities in the entertainment field, of which 



Mr. Koenig. I concede your right to ask the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Motion pictures is only a part, I will ask you 

Mr. Koenig. I have no objection to answering any questions, sir, 
about that. I have a record company and I make jazz records, and my 
leading artists are the Firehouse Five Plus Two, a very red organ- 
ization. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will have to ask you to repeat that. 

Mr. Koenig. I say, I have a record — phonograph record company, 
sir, and my leading artists are the Firehouse Five Plus Two, a very red 
organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I will have to take your word for it, I am not 
acquainted with them. 

Mr. Koenig. It is quite apparent that you have seen them, sir. 



1810 COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenxer. I thought just the contrary. I don't think I have. 
Now, what do you mean by that? 

Mr. Koexig. Well, sir, they wear fire uniforms, and the color of fire- 
uniforms are red. There are no political implications intended, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I was anxious to know whether you were 
serious or not. 

Mr. Koexig. Well, sir, it is a rather humorous enterprise on my part 
and I have a lot of fun with it, and it is hard for me to take it seriously. 

Mr. Tavenner. That probably displays my ignorance of some of the- 
recent moving pictures. 

Mr. Koexig. Well, sir, if you were dancing the Charleston you 
would probably 

Mr. Tavexxer. You said it was jazz, I believe. 

Mr. Koenig. That's right. 

Mr. Tavenxer. I am a little too old for that. 

I would like to ask you more about your statement that you are 
not now a member of the Communist Party when you will not tell 
the committee as to what you were yesterday. Have you changed in 
your views and in your loyalties in any manner since yesterday? 

Mr. Koexig. I decline to answer the question, sir, on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Possibly you have heard some witnesses testify that 
when men were called into the armed services during the war that 
the Communist Party considered they were not members of the Com- 
munist Party during the period of their service. Has the Communist 
Party in Los Angeles adopted any such a view regarding the appear- 
ances of witnesses here? Has that anything to do with your state- 
ment ? 

Mr. Koexig. No, sir; it has not anything to do with my statement, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you tell the committee why it is you are 
not a member of the Communist Party today. 

Mr. Koexig. I am not a member of the Comunist Party because I 
am not in sympathy with the aims or the objectives of the Communist 
Party, sir, as I understand them. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Well, I am very glad to hear you say that, but I 
am anxious to know whether you agreed with their aims and purposes 
yesterday. 

Mr. Koenig. Well, sir, I have already declined to answer that ques- 
tion in another form. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Well, is this matter of membership in the Commu- 
nist Party a thing like a cloak that can be worn today and cast aside 
tomorrow ? 

Mr. Koexig. Well, sir, I have sat here and listened to various tes- 
timonies on that, and I am not so sure that can be taken on and 
off like a cloak, sir ; no, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Having seen the witnesses that appeared here, I can 
understand why you no longer care to be affiliated with them. 

Mr. Tavenxer. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Walter. Any questions, Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. I noticed, Mr. Koenig, almost your last answer was — 
and I wrote it down. 1 think I have it exact : k 'I am not in sympathy 
with the aims of the Communist Party as I understand them." What 
aims of the Communist Party — can you help us — that you are not in 
sympathy with ? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1811 

Mr. Koenig. Well, sir, I don't know that I can help any in 

Mr. Doyle. Because we are making a study 

Mr. Koenig. But to explain — I imagine you want me to elucidate 
on the statement I made to Mr. Tavenner as to my understanding of 
the aims? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes, please. 

Mr. Koenig. Of the Communist Party today. 

Mr. Doyle. Please. 

Mr. Koenig. Well, as I understand the aims of the Communist 
Party, they would in some way, shape, or form institute a form of 
government in the United States which would, I believe, abridge the 
rights of citizens to freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom 
of conscience, freedom of belief and opinion, and I might add that I 
don't believe that those rights are light rights. They are very heavy, 
and the very basic foundation of our democracy depends on them, and 
in any way that any party or organization might tend to abridge those 
rights by the institution of any form of government, I would be op- 
posed to that form of government. 

Mr. Doyle. That perhaps leads me to this question. I thank you 
for helping me to understand your answer partially. I know, because 
you have said you have been here several days and I have noticed you 
too, in the audience— I made up my mind that you were a very pros- 
perous man, and I judge from your testimony that you are. Can you 
help us, then — if you are not in sympathy with the Communist aims 
and objectives, can you help us, as a committee of your Congress, with 
any suggestion you may have of how we can help fulfill our assignment 
by Congress, which is to investigate subversive programs? I wish to 
assure you that we are not intending to take the time of anyone, of 
ourselves, either, in the field of looking into people that might be 
termed — oh, small fry or incidental Communists, but major leaders. 

What recommendation have you, sir, for us, as to how we might 
really be more effective, if you think we could, in the field of getting at 
subversive people and subversive programs? In other words, those 
that would knowingly engage in the revolution or engage in taking 
away our freedoms of worship and thought and speech which you have 
just spoken of ? Is there anything you have to recommend that we can 
do, because the law under which we function says that we shall recom- 
mend to Congress. 

Mr. Koekig. Well, sir, I have no recommendations. 

Mr. Doyle. May I just make this statement and then I am through. 
You see, your own case — may I illustrate by your own case — is a sort 
of a closed door, and you have seen four or five or six other men and 
women who we know at one time to be Communists, and they have 
taken the very tack that you have taken, sir. You have said, "I am 
not a Communist today." Well, that leaves inferentially, at least, the 
proposition that you may be tomorrow or may have been yesterday or 
a week ago. How can we get at that problem ? 

Now, here you come and you claim the fifth amendment. We don't 
criticize you for doing it. Thank God, under our Constitution, yon 
have the right, but what can we do within the framework of our 
Constitution, because we must follow that framework and stay within 
that, vigorously, sir. This committee is not interested in anything but 
staying within our own Constitution, I assure you, but what can this 

81C95 — 51 — pt. 5 112 



1812 COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

committee do to meet the very problem that has been presented and 
you have heard it presented in these 4 or 5 days, and the very problem 
you present ? We only see you a few minutes, you see, and you come 
and you say, "I am not a Communist today. I claim the fifth amend- 
ment," when we ask you if you were yesterday, and so you close the 
door in our faces. We can't get any help from you as to how the 
Communist Party has been operating in California from your own 
experience, assuming that we know that at one time you were a Com- 
munist. Don't you see the problem? 

How can we do that? How can we get, for instance, your coopera- 
tion, and successful men like you whom we have been informed were 
at one time a Communist and we believe, without limitation, that at 
one time you were ? Now, you come and say, "I am not today." How 
can we, within the framework of the Constitution, get your coopera- 
tion so that you will tell us what, if in any way, the Communist Party 
is subversive, enough so that you, shall I say, got out of it, again, 
believing as we do, that you were a Communist? 

In other words, you got out of it, shall we say. AVhy did you get 
out of it, a successful, prosperous man ? You may not have been when 
you went into it, but you certainly are now, sir. You are out of 
sympathy with it, yet we can't get your help because you, sir — and I 
say it with all respect to you — you, sir, are following exactly the line, 
when it comes to the fifth amendment, that we know is followed by 
almost all the present Communists because you must know, sir, that 
when we ask you if you are a Communist, almost always we know the 
answer before we ask you. You realize that : of course you do, because 
we have very able investigators, former FBI men, former Secret 
Service men. Some 90 out of 100 of the gentlemen who sit in the 
chair where you are and tell us that "We are not today" or "I refuse 
to answer," we know what the answer is before we ask it, but we 
would like to get the picture of subversive people and subversive 
programs that are designed to undermine our form of government. 
Now, that is all. We are not interested in trying to put you in a 
position where 3 7 ou have a sense of fear or compulsion. Can you help 
us in that? How shall we get at that problem, specifically? 

Mr. Koenig. Well, sir, I have no recommendations to make. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, will you think it over? 

Mr. Koenig. Sir, I have thought a great deal about this problem. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, I can tell you have. I can sense that, sir. 

Mr. Koenig. And I am sorry, sir, that I have no recommendation 
to offer you. 

Mr. Doyle. May I say this to you : I don't think you are through 
thinking it over. I don't think you are through. 

Mr. Koenig. I don't understand you, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. I moan that I believe you when you say you have no 
sympathy with ( lommunist objectives. I am ready to believe you, and, 
believing you as I do on that, I don't think you are through. I think 
you are going to come clean some day before long and say, "Gentlemen 
of Congress, here, let me help you." 

Mr. Walter. Any questions, Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. Mr. Koenig, what was your rank on discharge 
from the Army ? 

Mr. Koenig. Master sergeant. 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1813 

Mr. Jacks* >n. Where are you presently employed, Mr. Koenig? 

Mr. KoeniCx. Paramount Pictures. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you discuss the matter of your appearance before 
this committee with your employers? 

Mr. Koenig. Xo. sir. 

Mr. Jacksox. T have no further questions. 

Mr. Walter. Have you any questions, Mr. Potter ? 

Mr. Potter. Yes. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Koenig, do you contend that 
the Communist Party of the United States is part of the international 
Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Koenig. I don't know the answer to that question, sir. 

Mr. Potter. Well, to refresh your memory, I wish to take the time 
of the committee. Mr. Chairman, to refer you to a manual which was 
written by J. Peters, a manual that is entitled "The Communist 
Party — A Manual on Organization.*' Now, we have had testimony 
before our committee that this manual of the Communist Party serves 
as the Communist Party members' bible and it is used extensively as a 
pamphlet, a publication for the indoctrination of new members. Now, 
under a paragraph entitled "What Are the Conditions for Member- 
ship in the Communist Party.*' I wish to read you this paragraph: 

The conditions for membership in our party are contained in the following 
pledge read by Comrade Browder to 2,000 workers who were initiated into the 
party in the Now York district in 1033. 

I quote the pledge that these 2,000 workers took: 

I now take my place in the ranks of the Communist Party, the party of the 
working class. I take this solemn oath to give the best that is in me to the serv- 
ice of my class. I pledge myself to spare no effort in uniting the workers in 
militant struggle against fascism and war. I pledge myself to work unsparingly 
in the unions, in the shops, among the unemployed, to lead the struggles for the 
daily needs of the masses. I solemnly pledge to take my place in the forefront 
of the struggle for Negro rights ; I pledge myself to rally the masses to defend the 
Soviet Union, the land of victorious socialism. I pledge myself to remain at all 
times a vigilant and firm defender of the Leninist line of the party, the only line 
that insures the triumph of Soviet power in the United States. 

Mr. Koenig, this is from the Communist Party's own manual, the 
Communist Party of the United States, and you, sitting in the witness 
chair, refuse to aid us to throw any light on a conspiracy that is dedi- 
cated to the what — to defend the Soviet Union. Your idea of citizen- 
ship is much different than mine. 

Mr. Koenig. Mr. Chairman, in regard to the question of Congress- 
man Jackson, he said that I discussed this with my employers and I 
said. "Xo.*' I want to be absolutely sure that I have made my answer 
clear. I did not discuss this with anybody in the studio. The man to 
whom I report immediately — that is, the man who is supervisor in 
my work — was away, and I did inform his attorney, because I felt 
that that should be the case, and I just wanted to make the record 
clear for you, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Any further questions? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman and Congressman Potter, 
the manual that you have spoken of was introduced in evidence before 
this committee as one of the first documents, I think, that the commit- 
tee introduced, probably as early as 1938. The document is probably 
out of print long since. I think it would be well to introduce that 
document in evidence, particularly inasmuch as it has been referred 



1814 COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

to quite a number of times during the course of the hearings. I offer 
it in evidence and ask that it be marked "Koenig Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Walter. I notice some of the other papers were marked ex- 
hibits. Do you intend to offer them? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. W alter. Ail right, mark it and let it be received as an exhibit. 

(The instrument in question was marked "Koenig Exhibit No. I.") 1 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask my distinguished colleague, Mr. Potter from 
Michigan, whether or not in that manual, with which he is so familiar, 
there is any pledge of allegiance to the United States? 

Mr. Potter. None whatsoever. None whatsoever. 

Mr. Walter. Any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

With further reference to this document, this is a document pre- 
pared by a person known as Alexander Stevens, and also known as 
J. Peters. He was identified by Whittaker Chambers as an agent of 
the Soviet Union and has been deported. But the committee has 
information that Alexander Stevens, known also as J. Peters, came to 
Hollywood in connection with Communist Party affairs here, par- 
ticularly in connection with the raising of funds. I would like to 
ask this witness if at any time he net J. Peters. 

Mr. Koenig. I decline to answer the question, sir, on (lie grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Koenig, what contributions have you made to any 
alleged charitable work in recent years? 

Mr. Koenig. Alleged charitable work, sir, or charitable? 

Mr. Walter. I said alleged advisedly, because after all if you re- 
fuse to answer the question as to whether or not you made an}- contri- 
butions to Mr. Peters' activity then I think I am justified in saying 
alleged, because Mr. Peters was only interested in milking the cows 
of Hollywood. 

Mr. Koenig. Yes, sir. I would be glad to tell you of any contribu- 
tions 1 have made to charitable organizations. 

Mr. Walter. Let's hear about contributions that you haA^e made to 
any cause. 

Mr, Koenig. The motion-picture industry, I am very proud to say r 
has one fund which covers a great many charitable organizations, the 
Community Chest and various — I guess 62 legitimate organizations 
which have been carefully investigated. 

Mr. Walter. And you 

Mr. Koenig. I am very happy to say that I have authorized a pay- 
roll deduction from my check which is given to that organization 
weekly. 

Mr. Walter. You are very proud of the fact that you have contri- 
buted to that? 

Mr. Koenig. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then why do you refuse to answer the question 
about contributions to Mi-. J. Peters? 

Mr. Koenig. Sir, the question would obviously involve me with an 
organization of which 1 have 



1 See appendix printed in separate volume. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1815 

Mr. Walter. Why would it obviously involve you ? 

Mr. Koenig. Well, sir, as I understood the question, counsel said 
that the contributions were for the Communist Party and I have 
declined to answer questions regarding any possible or alleged affilia- 
tion or connection with that organization, sir. So I must decline to 
answer your question. 

Mr. Walter. All right, thank you. 

Anything further, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr! Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Walter. The witness may be excused. 

Who is your next witness, or do you have anything further today ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Another witness that I believe you were going to 
call is ill? 

Mr. Tavenner. I received a report from counsel that he was not well 
enough to appear today but it was expected that he would be tomor- 
row. I agreed for his appearance tomorrow, subject to your approval. 

Mr. Walter. Oh, yes. If the witness is not well, why, of course, 
we don't want him to be here. 

Then the meeting will stand adjourned until 10 in the morning. 

(Whereupon, at the hour of 4: 30 p. m., an adjournment was taken 
in the above hearings until the hour of 10 a. m., of the following day, 
Tuesday, September 25, 1951.) 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF HOLLYWOOD MOTION 
PICTURE INDUSTRY— PART 5 



TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 1951 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the, 
Committee of Un-American Activities, 

Los Angeles, Calif. 

PUBLIC HEARINGS 

The. subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met pursuant to adjournment at 10:10 a. m. in room 518, Federal 
Building, Los Angeles, Calif., Hon. Francis E. Walter (chairman), 
presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter 
(chairman), Clyde Doyle, Donald L. Jackson, and Charles E. Potter. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Thomas W. 
Beale, Sr., assistant counsel; Louis J. Russell, senior investigator; 
William A. Wheeler, investigator; and John W. Carrington, clerk. 

Mr. Walter. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Tavenner, who is your first witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. George Beck. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Beck, will you raise your right hand? 

Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Beck. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE BECK 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. George Beck? 

Mr. Beck. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I saw you late in the afternoon yesterday and I 
made the comment to you that I was saving you until this morning. 
I believe you replied that you preferred if I would save you until 
Christmas. 

Mr. Beck. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, Christmas has come, Mr. Beck, when and 
where were you born ? 

Mr. Beck. In New York City, March 7, 1907. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Beck. In Hollywood. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Hollywood ? 

Mr. Beck. Since 1936. 

Mr. Tavenner. Briefly, what has been your educational training or 
advantage? 

1817 



1818 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Beck. Well, the public schools of New York, elementary and 
high school, a couple of years of high school, and then I went to work 
for a year or two and decided I wanted to complete my education. 
I went back to high school, found myself to be a little older than the 
other kids and quit. I went to prep school, morning, noon, and night, 
for about 6 or 7 months, and took college-entrance examinations at 
four or five New York colleges, all of which I passed, and then found 
myself in a position where economically I couldn't take advantage of 
these high marks I had made, so I didn't go to college. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ? 

Mr. Beck. I am a writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee briefly what your expe- 
rience has been as a writer? 

Mr. Beck. Well, prior to coining to Hollywood I had done some 
magazine stories, a couple of plays, sketches on Broadway. Then 
I decided I wanted to see what Hollywood was like and I came out 
here. Within a couple of weeks I went to work. 

I wrote a picture at RKO, the name of which I have fortunately 
forgotten. This was followed by two or three others, and then I was 
unemployed for a little bit, did a couple of original stories on my 
own, which I was fortunate enough in selling. 

From 1936 to about 1943 or 1914 or 1945, I was pretty consistently 
employed, either self-employed or by the studios. From about 1945 
to 1948 I decided I wanted to pursue other pursuits, namely, the pur- 
suit of happiness. I was unhappy in the studios. So I was not avail- 
able for pictures. That's about it. 

Mr. Tavenner. What are some of the screen credits which you have 
received ? 

Mr. Beck. I think my very first was a thing called There Goes 
My Girl. Another one was Everybody's Doing It. They didn't say 
what they were doing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you raise your voice just a little bit? 

Mr. Beck. The second was Everybody's Doing It. I worked on a 
picture called Destry Rides Again; got no credit, however. Then 
I wrote a picture called Hired Wife, with Rosalind Russell, and 
another one. Take a Letter, Darling, with Rosalind Russell again. 
This is my last credit, although subsequently I had worked on nu- 
merous scripts that were in distress, many of which I could not cure, 
but I managed to give them decent burials. That is about all of 
them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Beck, information has come to the attention 
of the committee that during a part of your experience as a screen 
writer you were a member of the Communist Party. Is that correct? 

Mr. Beck. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee when and under what 
circumstances you joined the Communist Party? 

Mr. Beck. Well, I am a little vague about this myself. 

Mr. Tavenner. First, let me ask you, have you withdrawn from 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Beck. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. About when? 

Mr. Beck. This, again, I can't be too sure of. It was about 1946, 
possibly the early part of 1947. That is to the best of my memory. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1819 

Mr. Tavenxer. Very well. Let us go back, then, to the period 
when you became affiliated with the Communist Party 

Mr. Beck. Well, my first 

Mr. Tavexxer. And tell US how you were recruited into the party 
and the circumstances under which you became a member. 

Mr. Beck. Well, I think it was approximately in 1938 or possibly 
1939. that 1 was asked to write a script, a radio show, and at this 
time Hitler and Chamberlain were playing footsie. I got a little 
angry at this and, ordinarily, I am known as a commy writer 

Mr. Tavenxer. By ''commy,'" what do you mean, comedy? 

Mr. Beck. Yes: funny stuff. 

Mr. Tavexxer. The abbreviation is so easily misunderstood. That 
is the reason I mentioned it. 

Mr. Beck. Well, as I say, I was approached to write a sketch for 
a radio show, and I didn't feel in the mood for writing comedy at 
this time, so I wrote a sketch which was written out of anger, emo- 
tion, and a prettv damn good sketch, because in it I could say precisely 
what I felt about war. Well, this went on the air and it apparently 
met with a great deal of approval throughout the country, and I got — 
oh. any number of letters from people who liked what I had said. I 
also found myself being courted by certain people out here, which is 
not to say that prior to this time I hadn't known some of these people ; 
very nice people, wonderful people. I admired them. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Will you speak a little louder, please? I heard you, 
but just speak a little louder. 

Mr. Beck. Who saw that I was pretty articulate on paper, at least, 
and said that — well, they invited me — I can't say who they were 
at the time because there is a great deal of confusion in my mind right 
now and I would hate to say specifically who, what, when, where. 
They asked me to go to a cultural meeting. Well, I went to a cultural 
meeting. I can't remember where. A lot of people were there that I 
knew, a lot of people I didn't know, and there were speakers whom I 
don't remember, but what they had to say was precisely what I felt. 
Again, I can't tell you what it was that was said except at this par- 
ticular time Hitler,*Franco, Mussolini, all of this was being discussed 
wherever people sat down together. Well, I listened and 1 approved. 
I liked what was said, because it was articulated, possibly, to me much 
better than I could for myself. 

I became interested and I went to three or four of these. Xow, I 
do not recall whether I joined the party at this time, but if I did, 
1 know it was a very short duration because in and around this 
time something happened with Finland, I think, or something, at any 
rate and — well, I had arguments 

Mr. Tavexxer. Will you excuse me? Will you sit farther forward '. 
I understand the press is unable to hear. Raise your voice a little as 
though you were speaking to me rather than speaking to the micro- 
phone. 

Mr. Beck. I can't say just what it was at this time that brought me 
in and out, or whether I was in and then subsequently left, but I do 
know that in about 1943 I finally made a big decision and it was a 
cinch to recruit me. As a matter of fact, I sought membership in the 
Communist Party because I felt 

Mr. Tavenner. You did what? 



1820 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Beck. I sought membership. I felt that this was the only 
organization for me at the time. It seemed to be, well — it was active, 
and I wanted to be active, I wanted to do something positive. Un- 
fortunately, however, I found that I had done better work as an 
individual, in my estimation, before I got into the party than dur- 
ing my party membership. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will want to ask you more about that a little later. 
Will you tell us a little more in detail the circumstances under which 
you became a member in 11)4-") '. 1 am not speaking now of the reasons 
which brought you into the party. You have apparenty explained 
that. But I mean where did you go to join the Communist Party, 
who did you contact, and any other information such as that? 

Mr. Beck. I didn't contact anybody. It is just that prior to this 
time there were some people, who they are I can't recall now — that is, 
I can recall a mass of people but I cannot select the individual who 
possibly was assigned to recruit me as a member. But I do recall this, 
that right around this time I saw a motion picture, I went downtown 
to see it, a picture called Professor Mamloch. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will 3 7 ou spell the last name? 

Mr. Beck. M-a-m-1-o-c-h, I think. And I was greatly moved by 
this picture. 

I remember coming out in the lobby, there were people discussing it, 
and one was the then widow of a friend of mine who had lost his life 
in the service. Somebody said, "How the hell anybody can stay out 
of the party now I don't know." Well, I felt this way, too. It was 
suggested that I go to another one of these cultural meetings, and I 
did. I found it was Dick Collins' house. It was at this meeting when 
the coffee and cake was served, along with the invitation to join the 
party, that I accepted both. I signed. 

From then on intermittently I was a party member. When I say 
"intermittently," I again have the memory of having dropped out 
of the party on two or three occasions, and whether I dropped out 
actually or just didn't function I can't say. I know that I was ap- 
proached annually to reregister, even though I had not been at meet- 
ings, although I must say that I attended many, many meetings and 
tried very hard to be a good Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you assigned to a particular group or cell 
of the party upon signing up at the home of Richard Collins? 

Mr. Beck. Yes. I don't know how this came about exactly, but 
I do have a memory of seven or eight or nine people meeting at my 
house out in the valley, and possibly at one or two other homes, 
although 1 can't recall — I don't even remember who the people were 
because I never subsequently came into contact with them in a pro- 
fessional or social way. So I believe that these were just citizens 
in the valley who were just anxious to do a good job in the way of 
bettering the community in which they lived. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you assigned later to a different group or cell 
of the party ? 

Mr. Beck. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us about that? 

Mi'. Beck. Well, I wonder if I couldn't make a request of the com- 
mittee at this point. It is simply this : Yesterday I heard Mr. Doyle 
offer another witness an alternative, saying he was interested only 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1821 

that this witness knew about procedures of the Communist Party. 
Well, I must say that I know very little about it. But at the same 
time I have personal feelings about naming people, especially people 
who have already been named numerous times. Since 1 can only 
mention possibly six or seven or eight, I wonder if I could eliminate 
the mention of these names. 

Mr. AValter. I don't know why you hesitate mentioning the names 
of people whose names have already been mentioned. 

Mr. Beck. It's a personal feeling. 

Mr. Walter. Particularly in view of the fact that many of those 
people, despite the announcement that Mr. Wood made, giving them 
an opportunity to come in and make a statement, have failed to do 
so. The inference, of course, is that they are still active members 
of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Beck. Well, this is a personal feeling. 

Mr. Walter. I understand. But if the names have been mentioned 
I don't see why the reluctance to mention them again. 

Mr. Beck. It is just that the majority of these people are very 
close and good friends of mine and I like them and I know very well, 
that is in my own mind, that these are not people who could by the 
furthest stretch of the imagination be considered bomb throwers. 

Mr. Walter. Unfortunately, you have the attitude that a great 
many other Americans have. I will confess that when I first became 
a member of this committee, against my wishes, I used to see these 
slimy individuals parade before our committee one after another and 
I wondered which one of them would have the courage to even fire 
an air gun, much less throw a bomb. But, after all, that isn't the 
danger. You see, they are always behind somebody who resorts to 
force. They haven't the physical courage to do it themselves, but you 
see, they supply the impetus. 

Mr. Beck. Well, it is my feeling, Mr. Walter, that these are not 
the people who get behind things but rather these are the people be- 
hind whom the others get, if vou know what I mean. People like my- 
self. 

Mr. Walter. Well-meaning, frustrated idealists, I suppose. 

Mr. Beck. Well, let's let it go at that, 

Mr. Walter. I mean, I said that in a hurry without weighing it, 
but on reflection I think it is pretty good. Mr. Tavenner, is there any 
reason why this witness should 

Mr. Tavenner. No; I think the importance of giving a full state- 
ment of the names is a matter that should be insisted upon. There 
cannot be an investigation of communism without investigation of 
individuals. It is impossible. 

Mr. Walter. Do you know the names that are going to be men- 
tioned? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am fairly certain I have heard the names. 

Mr. Walter. Are these people whose cards we have or know the 
numbers of their cards? 

Mr. Tavenner. It may be in some instances but 

Mr. Walter. Well, I don't see any harm. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. I doubt if that is correct. 

Mr. Walter. Proceed. 



1822 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Beck. Well, the later assignment — that is, the second group 
to which I was assigned had possibly a dozen or more people — 1 would 
say, rather, a dozen or so people, and the meetings — I can give a few 
names only. Jack Lawson. 

Mr. Walter. Certainly the mention of Jack Lawson's name doesn't 
come as any surprise to anybody, does it? 

Mr. Beck. I should imagine not. This is why I felt that we would 
be taking the time of 

Mr. Walter. I am sure that Mr. Lawson wouldn't be surprised that 
his name is mentioned. 

Mr. Beck. Well, hardly. 

Mr. Walter. Go ahead. 

Air. Beck. Les Cole, Morton Grant. I don't want to hide now. It 
is just that I can't think of them. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Well, you take your time and consider it, because 
I want you to be as accurate as you can. 

Mr. Beck. Oh, Arnold Manoff. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Arnold Manoff, you say ? 

Mr. Beck. Yes, and a lady who mentioned me, and I can do no less 
than mention her, Mrs. Wilson. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Mrs. Elizabeth Wilson? 

Mr. Beck. That's right. How many have I mentioned so far? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you acquainted with John Wexley ? 

Mr. Beck. I was acquainted with him ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Was he a member of that group ? 

Mr. Beck. Well, I once went to his house. He was not a member 
of this group. I went to his house, and I think it was a fraction meet- 
ing of some sort related to the Albert Maltz controversy. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Are there any others whose names you can now re- 
call? 

Mr. Beck. I think the very early group was presided over the first 
several meetings by Mrs. Ruthven. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Madelaine Ruthven? 

Mr. Beck. Madelaine, that's right. She came along the first several 
times because, to me, we were, I guess you would call us, novitiates, 
and none of us knew anything about the parliamentary rules of run- 
ning a meeting, and there was an awful lot of jabber until she stepped 
in and kind of directed us in how to sit properly and discuss what- 
ever we had to discuss. That's about it. 

Mr. Tavexxer. If the names of any other persons occur to you 
whom you know to be members of the Communist Partjr, we would 
like that information. 

Mr. Beck. Well, if they occur to me next week — if they should oc- 
cur to me I will write you a letter. 

Mr. Tavexxer. If, during the course of your testimony, any ques- 
tion is asked which might refresh your recollection- 
Mr. Beck. Oh, of course. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I would also like for you to mention it. 

Mr. Beck. Well, I am here to cooperate with this committee as 
much as I can. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I am certain you are. Now, will you tell the com- 
mittee your experience as a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Beck. Well, I think my first difficulty as a Communist was to be- 
come a Communist; not a member, but I mean, become a Communist. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1823 

In order to do so one apparently lias to educate himself. I sat with 
the books, I slept with the books, I ate with the books, and nothing 
happened. 1 read and read and read in an attempt to understand 
what it was all about, and I guess it was the style of the writing, some- 
thing I am not familar with. I couldn't absorb any, and 1 complained 
of this difficulty, I think, to Mr. Lawson, and lie smiled sympa- 
thetically and he said, "Well, we all had that trouble. It takes a lot 
of application." Well, I applied myself some more with negative re- 
sults. I not some of the gist of some of the things, and there was very 
little dialogue, and none of it was sparkling. May 1 say that? Well, 
it was" difficult. I do remember that early in my membership I had— 

Mr. Tavexxer. May I interrupt your testimony 

Mr. Beck. Yes. 

Mr. Tavexnek. At this point? Is counsel for Mr. Sidney Buch- 
maii in the room? 

A Voice. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Excuse me. 

Mr. Beck. Yes. I wish you would excuse me. 

Mr. Tavexxek. Well, if you will proceed, please, with your state- 
ment. 

Mr. Beck. Yes. Well, almost one of my first difficulties was an 
attempt to understand why this was, and I accepted it as such, a legi- 
timate party. I have reference to the Communist Party. 

(At this time Representative Francis E. Walter left the hearing 
room.) 

Mr. Beck. I have reference to the Communist Party of America 
now. Why it was that I had — why it was that I was given a pseudo- 
nym. I don't, have any constitution for conspiracy, and this, to me, 
was — well, it was childish. You know, it was — I guess you would 
call it kinderspiel, child playing. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Speak a little louder. 

Mr. Beck. Yes. I spoke of this once to Manoff and he smiled, too, 
about it. and he said. ''But this is something you have really got to 
understand. When you become a thorough Marxist you realize that 
we are a minority party, and it may happen that one day the Repub- 
licans, who are the outs, will be the ins, and they are going to have 
to find somebody to pick on, and they can't pick on the Democrats 
because they are about as big as they are, so they will pick on us." 

Well. I accepted that and I went along with it. It wasn't too im- 
portant to me at the time. 

Mr. Tavexxek. Did you have a party name? 

Mr. Beck. I guess I did. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Do you recall it? 

Mr. Beck. No. 

Mr. Tavexxer. All right. 

Mi-. Beck. Well, the boys decided to do something because of my 
constant complaints because of my constant inability to absorb, and 
this I think is rather amusing, at least it is to me now in retrospect. 
Manoff suggested, "Look, since it is so tough for you to read this 
stun 7 , possibly by association it would help you." So, by association 
lie meant that I become the book carrier or literary director of my 
group. It evolved upon me to go to the book store, oick up the litera- 
ture, bring it to the meetings, try to sell it. and T did this for quite a 
j eriod. I must say that I upped sales considerably. 



1824 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavexner. Were you able to get up sales through the handling 
of the ordinary and accepted type of Communist literature, or did } 7 ou 
sandwich in something of a different character? 

Mr. Beck. You are stepping right on my jokes. I carried a lot of 
basic literature, v e referred to them as the heavy stuff and the light 
stuff. The heavy stuff was the basic Marxist literature. This I car- 
ried and I carried. I also carried best sellers and plays and other 
things that interested me. Now, I consider myself no different from 
an awful lot of other people and what interested me would certainly 
interest them. This stuff, the heavy stuff, didn't interest me and didn't 
interest them, either. They would push it aside and say, "Now, what 
have you got that we can read ?" And they bought the stuff that they 
could read. The other stuff I kept carrying to and from. 

I developed, I guess — all I developed was muscles. Now, that's 
about it. 

Mr. Tavexxkr. I asked you a moment ago about your party name 
and possibly I can refresh your recollection. Do you recall the name 
of Joe Barton or Bert Benson? 

Mr. Beck. They sound like pretty good names. I don't see that 
the} 7 — I don't remember that they had any particular connection with 
me. I think I can explain this simply by saying, "This is vour name," 
this is what they would tell us on the card, which I wouldn't look at. 

Mr. Tavenx t er. What functions did you perform in the Commu- 
nist Party other than that of carrying the literature? 

Mr. Beck. None, except that I paid dues and I attended meetings. 
I also took — well, here 3 T ou've got to understand that at this period I 
was trying to be a good citizen and there were many issues that would 
come up from time to time that the Communist Party per se would get 
behind. I remember the occasion of FEPC. Now, this I got behind. 
The antidiscrimination things, fair employment and stuff, I don't re- 
call at the moment, but I know that I was in hearty accord with the 
objectives of these things and I went out and worked for them. I rang 
doorbells and solicited signatures to — what do you call them? Peti- 
tions. I did well. I apparently was pretty persuasive. I also sold 
many subscriptions to the People's World. That's about my function. 

M •. Taykxxer. Did yon make any sizable contributions to sustain 
the People's World or the New Masses? 

Mr. Beck. Well, I made a kind of semivoluntary contribution once, 
I remember. There was a meeting once, a party to raise funds for the 
New Masses. This was a magazine that was always in need of money. 
At this particular party, just before we got down to the business in 
hand, I was asked, as some of the other people present were asked, by 
George Willner — - — 

Mr. Tavexner. George Willner? 

Mr. Beck. Yes. Who was my then agent. 

Mi-. Tavenner. Was he also known to you to be a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Beck. I would assume so. At this point, let me say that 1 feel 
I was the only member of (he Communist Party in the United States 
from all the testimony that has been going around. I mean lean swear 
to myself being a member of the Communist Party. These people 1 
saw merely at Communist Party meetings. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1825 

Willner was raising money, and he asked me before we sat down to 
the business at hand, and asked several other people, "'Now. what can 
1 put von down for so that I can hypo this thing along?" 

I said. "50 bucks." 

Well, he used me by saying, "Well — ." Later on he said, "Beck 
otters 50. Is anybody going to match it?" Well, this was immediately 
matched. And then without my permission he says, "Now Beck top- 
that with a hundred." I guess I did. When this was met he said., 
"Beck offers 150." Well, 1 kicked in and I later kicked him. That 
is the contribution I made to the New Masses. 

Mr. Tavexxer. What dues or assessments did you pay to the Com- 
munist Party, and how were they assessed, on what basis, if you 
recall? 

Mr. Beck. Well, from what I recall here, my memory has been re- 
freshed, I don't know what the percentage was, but I know the actual 
dues were nominal and the assessments, if that is what they were,, 
were a little bit higher, a small percentage of salary. If you were 
employed you paid this, if you were not employed, well, you paid 
the dues, you paid the minimum fee. I imagine that I averaged about 
$20 or $30 a month. That's about all. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did you attend any benefit parties for the New 
Masses at other times, so far as you recall ? 

Mr. Beck. I imagine I did. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Do you recall where those benefit parties were held? 

Mr. Beck. No: I don't think I can. I mean I cannot differentiate 
now at this time with what was the New Masses party and what was 
the cultural and inculcation party, or what was just a plain social 
shindig. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you acquainted with Frank Tuttle? 

Mr. Beck. I met him once at his house. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did you attend a Communist Party meeting at his 
home '. 

Mr. Beck. Well. I was 

Mr. Tavexxer. Or was it a meeting that you attended at his home? 

Mr. Beck. It was some kind of a meeting. Whether it was a cul- 
tural or indoctrination meeting, or whatever, I don't know. I know 
I did attend a meeting there. 

Mr. Tavexxer. You stated you remained in the Communist Party 
until 1946. 

Mr. Beck. Yes; about that. 

Mr. Tavkxxer. About that time? 

Mr. Beck. 1946 or 1047. I know I sold the house I was then living 
in in September 11)47, and this was almost immediately after the boys 
got their invitation to attend this ball in Washington, and I know I 
was out by then. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Will you state the circumstances which led up to 
your termination of your Communist Party membership? 

Mr. Beck. Well, my final termination. I think, was preceded by a 
gradual disinclination to attend meetings. I think the first puzzle- 
ment, real puzzlement, I had was on the occasion, as I see here, of the 
Duclos letter, which 1 read and must confess I couldn't understand. 

Mr. Tavex t xer. Will you speak a little louder, please? 

Mr. Beck. I say, which I read and must confess I couldn't under- 
stand, inasmuch as just prior to this time we had been allies with Kits- 



1826 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

sia, and I thought we got along pretty damn well with Russians and 
Russia, and here was Mr. Duclos, whom I had never heard about be- 
fore, who wrote that this was impossible, that the United States and 
Russia could never get along in the same world. I differed with Mr. 
Duclos. That's about it. 

( At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing 
room.) 

Mr. Beck. This was my first differing with authority, shall I say \ 
Subsequently, the Maltz thing. Now, this was. to me, the first real 
breach. There lias been testimony here about Maltz and his famous 
article. Albert Maltz is, to me, a great writer, a fine man and pos- 
sibly one of the best craftsmen in the industry. Mr. Maltz wrote 
an article which said, in effect, that the writer, the artist, cannot do 
his best work if he is proscribed; that art is a weapon it was hard 
to use in the writer's job and that he, for one, found he had to es- 
chew it. 

Mr. Tavenner. He had to 

Mr. Beck. He had to discard it. Well, he had said in that pretty 
much what I had been feeling, only feeling but unable to articulate 
to myself, because during this period I found it difficult to write. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I, at this point, read to you just one or two 
sentences of what Mr. Maltz wrote ? 

Mr. Beck. Well, it was a wonderful article. I would love to hear 
it again. 

Mr. Tavenner (reading) : 

I have come to believe that t^e accented understanding of art as a weapon 
is not a useful guide but a strait- jacket. I have felt this is in my own work 
and viewed it in the works of others. In order to write at all it has long 
since become necessary for me to repudiate it and abandon it. 

Now, that is the position which you were referring to ? 

Mr. Beck. Yes, precisely. 

Mr. Tavenner. As expressing what you, yourself, believed ? 

Mr. Beck. Yes. It seemed to me that there were — you see, I 
placed myself in a, difficult position. Prior to this time I had been 
writing comedy and doing rather well at it in that we lived well. I 
then decided that, well, there is a war going on and I ought 
to be able to use my abilities as a writer for some better purpose than 
just comedy writing. Well, this is like any comic wanting to play 
Hamlet, I suppose, and they pretty soon become aware that they 
don't have the capability of it, but I stayed with it and got exactly 
nowhere, and I am happy to say that recently I have, in the past 3 
years at any rate, gone back to writing comedy with, I think, rather 
good results. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you were describing this Maltz episode as 
another incidence of the basis for disaffection on your part with the 
Communist IVrty 

Mr. Beck. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. So will you continue. 

Mr. Beck. Well, I was bothered and disturbed, and the reason I 
was bothered and disturbed — I mean, I approved of the article. 
I thought it was great, and I told this to Mr. Maltz, and he 
was very grateful for my approval, although this — or rather, he said, 
"Well. I'm glad you like it, George," and I said, "Not only 
1, but an awful lot of other fellows do, too." This, however, was not 



!-> 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1827 

approved by a lot of people whom I had never heard of. A big 
meeting was called, and I think this was the occasion when I met at 
that house. I suppose it is called a fraction meeting; writers only 
were asked to attend. This was about the only fraction meeting I 
ever attended. 

( At this time Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the 
hearing room.) 

Air. Beck. Possibly another; I don't know. At this time some 
higher echelon people from downtown in the party and some people 
from New York came out for the express purpose of viscerating Mr. 
Maltz, and they did it. They chopped him up very finely. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell the committee just what happened in that 
proceeding. Was Mr. Sillen, from New York, one of those who 
came ? 

Mr. Beck. I wouldn't know Sillen if he walked in here. I re- 
member the name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Beck. You see, it is difficult for me to attach names to bodies. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, this was a meeting in whose home? 

Mr. Beck. This was that Wexley. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wexley? 

Mr. Beck. Home. 

Mr. Tavenner. The home of John Wexley ? 

Mr. Beck. I think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. The meeting was called for the purpose of straight- 
ening out Mr. Maltz? 

Mr. Beck. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I wish you would tell the committee just what 
occurred and how it occurred in that meeting. 

Mr. Beck. Well, my only recollection of this is that I got there at 
night; it was crowded by the time I got there. I managed to find a 
seat, and already somebody that I didn't know was telling Mr. 
Maltz 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you talk a little louder? 

Mr. Beck. Was telling Mr. Maltz how to write. Now, this I con- 
sider presumptuous in the extreme, coming from somebody I didn't 
know telling a man like Maltz how to write, whose writings I had 
approved of and enjoyed, and I never heard of this guy, I never 
read anything of his, so why he should set himself up as a critic, I 
couldn't understand. However, he pounded Mr. Maltz, and a lot of 
us who were sitting around there began to get pretty annoyed with 
this. I know I expressed the feelings of several people when I said, 
"Who the hell are these people? Never heard of them. This is our 
party. This is our group." As far as I was concerned, I was — I 
felt that it was just the area in which I operated — that is, my group — 
and the several people that I knew outside of the group in the indus- 
try, and I couldn't see why people from New York and people from 
downtown would take it upon themselves to indoctrinate Mr. Maltz, 
to tell Mr. Maltz how he should write. 

Mr. Tavenner. By "people downtown and people in New York," 
are you referring to Communist Party functionaries on a higher level? 

Air. Beck. Yes, I would say so. Sure, sure. 

Mr. Walter. Who were they? 

81595— 51— pt. 5 13 



1828 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Beck. I don't know. 

Mr. Walter. Give the names. See if that refreshes his recollection. 

Mr. Tavenner. Sam Sillen is one of those, according to our infor- 
mation, who came as a special representative of the Communist Party 
of the cultural section from New York to straighten out this situa- 
tion. Just who the functionaries were from the Los Angeles County 
Communist Party organization I am unable to say. 

Mr. Beck. Well, I am, too. I mean, I had never met these people 
before, and — well, I just didn't know them. I had no occasion to 
meet them later on, so that is 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there any further description you can give of 
the occurrences at that meeting ? 

Mr. Beck. Well, a lot of us tried to get the floor to defend Albert 
Maltz, but some of us couldn't. Others did. I know I left — I started 
to leave, at any rate, and I tripped over somebody who was asleep. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was that? 

Mr. Beck. I think that was Leo Townsend, and he said, "What's 
going on?" And I said, "The same old" — four letter word. But 
that was about the gist of it, although I know that helped — immed- 
iately after this I made a trip with a very dear friend of mine down 
to Mexico to see the bullfights, and on the ^Yay down this man who, 
incidentally, is no Communist, was no Communist, never has been a 
Communist — I have many friends who have never been Communists. 
I complained bitterly to this man and said, "What the hell has 
happened to our little party? They are pulling it apart." And I 
complained. The net result of this was that he said, he says, "Either 
get up off your — get up on your feet and holler." 

Well, I got up on my feet and I hollered, and everybody hollered 
with me. I mean, we all pretty much felt the same way, but nothing 
happened. I mean, some weeks later, in the same magazine, Maltz 
wrote what amounted to a retraction, a recantation of his first article, 
and this saddened me, and from here on I stopped going pretty much 
to meetings thereafter. I know I went to several to complain some 
more, you know, and wanting to find out what it was, what has broken 
us up here, you know. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, you were unable to work under 
those conditions, conditions of having your thoughts in writing con- 
trolled by action of a higher level of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Beck. Mr. Tavenner, nobody ever tried to control my thoughts, 
my writing. It is just that here I had seen an attempt. Well, I don't 
think they would have understood the kind of thing I write, so why 
would they try to control it. You know, why would they make an 
attempt at it? 

Mr. Tavenner. But you resented that effort to control the thought 
and writing of others. 

Mr. Beck. Well, I resent anybody or anything that tends to control 
anybody or anything. I think a fellow is entitled to free expression 
.if he has the ability to write it down and say it, provided it is within 
the borders of good taste. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have occasion to talk to Mr. Maltz between 
the meeting in which he was severely condemned and the time that he 
published his retraction? 

Mr. Beck. Yes; I think I did, but purely on the condolence side, if 
you know what I mean. A fellow breaks his leg and you bring him 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1829 

noodle soup, or something, and say, "Gee, too bad." You know, this 
kind of thing. My attitude was one of sympathy, "Gee, that was a 
hell of a way they butchered you." You know, that kind of thing. 
"I would have gotten up, Albert, to say something in your defense but 
I couldn't get the floor," something like that. He understood, he 
knows. Albert I consider a very dear friend, I hope, and he con- 
siders me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of 

John Sanford ? 

Mr. Beck. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he in your group at any time? 

Mr. Beck. Well, if so, very intermittently. I remember seeing him 
at meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dalton Trumbo? 

Mr. Beck. Dalton Trumbo, I think, came to my house once to buy 
a book. He looked at it and it didn't suit him and he didn't buy it. 
The only other times I saw him, I think, was at this — that is the only 
time I can fix as a party function was at this same fraction meeting 
of which I spoke earlier. 

Mr. Tavenner. Lou Harris? 

Mr. Beck. I know Lou Harris used to come over to my house to 
swim. I had a pool then that made me rather popular. A lot of 
other people came to swim. Now, meetings, actual meetings — I don't 
want to damn him to a spot. I think, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Beck, an investigator of the committee talked 
to you about this matter and you voluntarily looked up the checks 
that you were able to find that had any connection whatever with the 
Communist Party and you have voluntarily presented those checks 
to us. 

Mr. Beck. Well, voluntarily but with reluctance. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you three checks and I will ask you to 
examine them and state what they were for, please. 

Mr. Beck. This was party dues, check for $100. 

Mr. Tavenner. To whom is it payable ? 

Mr. Beck. Payable to cash. 

Mr. Tavenner. How is it endorsed ? 

Mr. Beck. Elizabeth Grant. 

Mr. Tavenner. Elizabeth Grant ? Is she related to Morton Grant, 
a person you mentioned in the earlier part of your testimony ? 

Mr. Beck. I believe she is still his wife. 

Mr. Tavenner. She was a member of the Communist Party, I 
assume, and collected dues from you ? 

Mr. Beck. I would assume so. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed with the others ? 

Mr. Beck. Here are two checks, also to cash, one for $60, dated 
June 7, 1944, and another for $65, dated September 29, 1944. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say they are payable to cash ? 

Mr. Beck. Payable to cash, both endorsed by Ann Froelich. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you pay those items to her as Communist 
Party dues? 

Mr. Beck. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell the name "Froelich" ? 

Mr. Beck. F-r-o-e-l-i-c-h. 



1830 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tavenner. I understood you to say that after the difficulty 
with Mr. Maltz, after the effort made by the Communist function- 
aries in New York and on the higher level here in Los Angeles 
County, that you ceased attendance at meetings. 

Mr. Beck. Well, I wouldn't say that I ceased abruptly. There 
was a disinclination to attend them, there didn't seem to be any point 

for me any more because I just 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you active at all in the work of the party 
after that time ? 

Mr. Beck. Oh, no. I was never active. The actual activity that 
I engaged in was getting out with petitions and lugging, as I say, 
the books. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was it then that you consider that your con- 
nection with the Communist Party terminated ? 

Mr. Beck. Actually terminated, I know, before 1948, and cer- 
tainly — well, this I can fix because in 1948 I was approached again 
to come back in, and this was one invitation I could decline. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell the committee the circumstances under which 
you were solicited to come back in. 

Mr. Beck. I was home writing, working, and a fellow came to the 
door, I knew him, and he says, "Can I see you?" He had called be- 
fore, I think. I am sure he would have. Very polite. And we got 
to talking and he said, "How about coming back in?" 

I said, "No, thanks." He didn't press me particularly. He did, 
however, rather sadly comment, "Gee, it's getting tough, everybody 
is leaving." 

Mr. Tavenner. When was this? 

Mr. Beck. "And nothing will drag them back in." This was in 
1948 when I had been out for at least a year, I'm sure. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the person with whom you had that 
conversation ? 

Mr. Beck. This was Morton O finer. 
Mr. Tavenner. Mortimer Offner? 

Mr. Beck. Mortimer Offner. He complained, as I say, it was very 
difficult to reregister people and couldn't understand, and finally de- 
cided, "Well, I'm not doing much good." This meeting ended 
with my not going, that is, not reregistering and I did, however, give 
him some money. This money was for either tickets to some theater 
party or something, for some cause or other. I don't know. But I 
gave him what money I had on me, which was about $4 or $6 or some- 
thing. And that was, I think, the last time I saw the man. Since 
then there has been nobody that has ever come near me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Has your break with the Communist Party been 
final and complete? 

Mr. Beck. Well, I would say so, sure. I mean as far as I am 
concerned. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 
Mr. Walter. Have you any questions, Mr. Doyle? 
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Beck, you stated a few minutes ago that you went 
into the party, the Communist Party, because it was active, and be- 
cause, as I understood it, it represented what you were interested in. 

Mr. Beck. Well, let me say this, Mr. Doyle ■ 

Mr. Doyle. At that time? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1831 

Mr. Beck. Yes, at that time. Earlier, I think even before I got 
into the Communist Party, I, like a lot of other people, were looking 
for a way to become instrumental and effective in the fight against 
fascism and nazism. At that time there was no organization other 
than, to my knowledge, the Communist Party, which was really 
doing a job. 

Mr. Doyle. Later on did you find that the Communist Party was — 
let me change that. Later on did you become disappointed in the 
lack of effectiveness of the Communist Party to fight what you were 
interested in fighting? 

Mr. Beck. Well, let me put it this way, sir. During the period that 
I was a party member I felt that I was very ineffective. I am speaking 
now for myself, that at a period prior to my being a member I had 
done a couple of things that I thought were pretty effective as a 
citizen and as an individual. I felt, and I feel now, that is in re- 
trospect I look at it, and I can say I was somewhat smothered, that 
I didn't function. 

Mr. Doyle. You don't mean that you as a Communist Party mem- 
ber, that your individual initiative was smothered* 

Mr. Beck. No, sir; no, sir. It was just that — well, it took time 
to attend meetings, to discuss procedure, what we were going to do, 
what was next — what was the next big issue to be tackled. Whereas 
before that without discipline when I felt anything I would go to my 
typewriter and I would write it. 

Mr. Doyle. I notice you are here without counsel, without legal 
counsel. You stated a few minutes ago to our distinguished legal 
counsel, you said, "I am here to cooperate with the committee, Mr. 
Tavenner." Mr. Tavenner replied, "I am sure you are." What is 
there about the functioning of this committee of your United States 
Congress that gained for this committee your cooperation? What 
are we doing that got your desire to actively cooperate and come here 
without counsel and voluntarily, although possibly with some regrets, 
cooperate with us? What are we doing that you feel as an Amer- 
ican citizen you could no longer do as a Communist? 

Mr. Beck. Well, I'll say that this committee, in my estimation, is 
slightly different from the previous committee, and I think the public 
relations job that you people have done has convinced a lot of people 
that you are not out to smear, whereas I am frank to say the previous 
committee did not care at all. I am sure that you gentlemen are con- 
cerned about the security of the country, just as I am. I was sub- 
penaed. You are a legal group. A subpena is not an invitation that 
one can decline. That is why I am here. I would like very much 
to have this whole mess finally dropped where it should be dropped 
and forgotten, and the industry permitted to go its way, to resume 
normal functions. There is an awful lot of fear about. I, at this 
point, cannot — well, I feel no fear, although I can understand others 
feeling fear. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask you one more question ? 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Doyle, you have consumed 8 minutes. Mr. Jack- 
son. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, I have used my time so I will transfer to my 
colleague. 

Mr. Jacksox. During the discussion over the Maltz affair, did Mr. 
Maltz take the floor in his own behalf? 



1832 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Beck. I don't recall if he did. I imagine he would have, because 
Albert is not the sort that is going to be kicked around without 

Mr. Jackson. Well, don't you think that in light of his complete 
repudiation of his previous statement that he did prove, ultimately, 
to be the sort who could and would take directions as to his artistic 
endeavors ? 

Mr. Beck. Well, I am not one to judge Maltz. I know that I respect 
him to this day. I like him. 

Mr. Jackson. Well, that is fine. I can understand your feelings, 
but I think the historical fact of his recantation must indicate that 
he did accept dictation from the Communist Party. 

Mr. Beck. Well, one would assume that, of course. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you speak up? 

Mr. Beck. He was given one of two alternatives, either recant or 
get out. He stayed in. 

Mr. Jackson. And recanted. Since your break with the Communist 
Party, have you come to the conclusion, personally, that the Commu- 
nist Party is in the nature of an international organization, and that 
all of the national groups take their directives from the Soviet Union? 

Mr. Beck. Actually, I wouldn't know about this, but from what 
is happening now, this is real and we are in a period of real and 
present danger and — because I don't like what has been going on. 
Nobody does. Finally, I should imagine that as Americans we must 
realize that we are Americans. 

Mr. Jackson. I hope there are an increasing number who will 
take your statement to heart and realize that many of us are convinced 
that today it is impossible to bear a dual allegiance to the Soviet 
Union and to the United States. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Potter, have you any questions ? 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Beck, at the fraction meeting when Maltz was 
criticized for his article, was John Howard Lawson in attendance at 
that meeting ? 

Mr. Beck. Yes. 

Mr. Potter. Did John Howard Lawson take an active part in 
criticizing his fellow writer, Maltz, for his article? 

Mr. Beck. I don't recall, actually, because I know that the three 
or four speakers that I heard were rather long-winded and were 
strangers to me. 

Mr. Potter. They were outsiders? 

Mr. Beck. I would say so. 

Mr. Potter. You don't recall of any of the local writers that took 
an active part in criticizing Maltz for his article? 

Mr. Beck. Not writers of my acquaintance, let me say. There are 
an awful lot of writers in this town that I don't know. I mean, I see 
them. I see them at guild meetings, and I don't know their names. 
There may have been a few of these, but I would say that the tenor, 
the temper of the people that I knew was all in favor of Maltz and 
resentful toward this group saying what they had to say. 

Mr. Potter. At the time of the Duclos letter, did it not seem strange 
to you that many of the people who, one day, were loud in their 
praise of Browder and the National Party, the following day were 
equally severe in their criticism ? I don't know whether you experi- 
enced that type of turn-about or not. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1833 

Mr. Beck. Well, I did. After having been in two or three wordy 
altercations with people who are not Communists 

Mr. Tavenner. Please speak a little louder. 

Mr. Beck. I used to find myself kind of in the middle of a sentence 
when the line would change. It wasn't really that bad. I mean, I 
say that, but it was difficult for me to 

Mr. Potter. Make your mental adjustments and keep them with the 
party line? 

Mr. Beck. Yes. which is — again, I want to say that I was not too 
concerned with party lines per se. What I was concerned about was 
the local picture. That is, here in town. 

Mr. Potter. But it must have impressed you that the group that you 
belonged to followed a definite party line. When the orders came 
down, they jumped. Maybe you didn't jump with them at the time, 
but your leaders of that group must have jumped. Maltz is an ex- 
ample which you have, yourself, used. 

Mr. Beck. Well, Maltz was never in my group. I remember there 
were other people in my group who were just 

Mr. Potter. I think that is true. 

Mr. Beck. As puzzled as I was and didn't jump, as you say; who 
argued until — I don't know — they came around. Why I don't know. 
I probably did, myself, without understanding, but with the feeling 
that, well, gee whiz, let's forget this and do the job that has to be done 
here, like — whatever it was — the Sleepy Lagoon case, or something like 
that. We were concerned primarily with local issues. That is, I was 
concerned, and I think the other people were, too. 

Mr. Potter. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mi-. Walter. Mr. Beck, I can understand why you were disturbed 
about the Duclos letter. Didn't that letter prove to you that the real 
aims of the Soviet were confusion, disorder, misery, strife, and chaos, 
and that all of this braying about peace was just simply window 
dressing ? 

Mr. Beck. Well, I don't know that the Duclos letter did this to me, 
because then we were just over a terrible war and we were all looking 
forward to the fruits of the peace and, as I say, I didn't know Mr. 
Duclos. I had never read any of his writings, and when I read this 
1 was simply confused, because we had just been through a horrible 
war with Russia as our ally and, as far as I was concerned, they sure 
could sleep in the same bed, because we had done it under very trying 
circumstances. Certainly it could have been done under less trying 
circumstancs. 

Mr. Walter. It could have been done and would have been done if 
there was any desire on the part of the Soviet to live in peace with 
the rest of the world. 

Mr. Beck. Well, certainly. I accept that. 

Mr. Walter. Anything further, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Beck, what you have done has not been pleasant. 
I appreciate fully how you feel about it, but it has been important. 
You have made a great contribution to the security of America. I 
would never go so far as to say that anybody who had ever been a 
member of the Communist Party was a great American. I don't 
know. I can't quite get up to that point, but I do think that you have 



1834 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

made as much a contribution, perhaps, as some troops in Korea or a 
bomber or a tank, and I am glad that you came here and testified,, 
because people will know what you have said and that will give them 
the courage, not to come before this committee, but to, in their own 
way, take the steps that are necessary to be taken in order to eradicate 
this cancerous growth from our body politic. On behalf of the com- 
mittee I thank you very much. 

Mr. Beck. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Vy t alter. The committee will take a 10-minute recess at this 
point. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

(All parties being present except ^Representative Clyde Doyle, the 
hearings were resumed.) 

Mr. Walter. The committee will be in order. Mr. Tavenner, who 
is your next witness? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Karl Tunberg. 

Mr. Walter. Will you come forward, please? 

Mr. Tunberg, will you raise your right hand, please. Do you swear 
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Tunberg. I do, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Sit down, please. 

TESTIMONY OF KARL TUNBERG 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Karl Tunberg ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Spokane, Wash. ; March 11, 1907. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation? 

Mr. Tunberg. I am a writer, a film writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any official position with the Screen 
Writers' Guild? 

Mr. Tunberg. I am president of the Screen Writers' Guild. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, during the course of the hearing in 
March or April in Washington, the chairman of the committee re- 
ceived a telegram from Mr. Tunberg, as president of the Screen 
Writers' Guild, in which he requested the privilege of appearing before 
the committee in light of many of the statements that had appeared 
regarding the Screen Writers' Guild during the course of the hearing, 
and a wire or letter was directed to Mr. Tunberg then giving him that 
privilege. 

I might say that — or I might ask the witness. 

It is true, is it not, that upon the beginning of our work in Washing- 
ton that you furnished the committee with a complete copy of the 
minutes and records of the Screen Writers' Guild for study by the 
staff in its work in this investigation ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir; that is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. In any hearing involving communism it has been 
our practice to ask each witness whether or not they are now or have 
at any time been a member of the Communist Party. Without any in- 
ference whatever on the part of the committee, I want to ask you that 
question. 

Mr. Tunberg. No, sir, I am not now, I never have been. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1835 

Mr. Tavexner. What was your purpose, Mr. Tunberg, in desiring 
to appear before the committee? 

Mr. Tunberg. My guild was upset and worried over the possible 
misconception which might be incurred among the public regarding 
the guild, and that is why the executive board instructed me to offer 
to appear here. I want to say now that I appreciate your having me 
here. I think it is indicative of the fairness with which these hear- 
ings have been conducted in your desire to get at the truth. Inev- 
itably with a parade of witnesses, seemingly a large number of letters, 
some are being identified as Communists, people are bound to get 
the conception that there are more Communists among Hollywood 
writers than there really are. 

I would like to point out that we have some 1,200 members in the 
Screen Writers' Guild and a very small fraction of these are Commu- 
nists. I don't know what the exact percentage is but it is extremely 
small. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Tunberg, let me tell you at this point that this 
committee has always been perfectly willing to extend to anybody the 
privilege we have extended to you, and all that is necessary in order 
to appear before this committee to clarify the atmosphere if a per- 
son's name has been mentioned, is a request. 

Mr. Tunberg. I appreciate that. 

Mr. Walter. I renew that offer. If anybody's name has been 
mentioned in the course of these hearings, who feels that they have 
been hurt, and it is not the desire of this committee to hurt anybody, 
we are merely seeking the truth, all they need to do is request the 
opportunity to make a statement and they will be given that oppor- 
tunity. 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, I can certainly testify to that, Mr. Chairman, 
and I do appreciate it. I would like to point out, if I may, that the 
complete lack of influence on our policy which the so-called left-wing 
group has had. I have statistics about that. Among the people who 
have been subpenaecl to appear before this committee in the past hear- 
ings, I think there are only two who have been successful in guild 
elections. Now, there were several hundred people who have run for 
office in the guild, and of that number only two from this group have 
been successful, and only for board positions. So you can see that 
they are completely at the present time devoid of any influence on our 
guild policy. I don't mean to infer that we have never had a Commu- 
nist problem. We have had one, a serious one, as has the whole 
Nation, the whole world has had a serious problem. But we are very 
proud of the way we dealt with this, that we were aware of it early. 
I think the entire motion-picture industry was, being as sensitive as it 
is to public opinion, was aware of it quite early. And the industry 
has certainly done at least as good a job as any other industry in 
getting rid of this left-wing, Communist influence. I know our guild 
has been a spearhead in that fight, and we did have a serious problem, 
but we knew 7 what was happening. I am not speaking of myself now 
but the membership in the guild, the leadership in the guild knew 
what was happening as far back as 1!>46 and 1947. 

(Representative Clyde Doyle returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Walter. You say we had a problem, and I think we ought to 
start from that point. I think you ought to develop the problem that 
you had. 



1836 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tunberg. I would like, if I could just continue for a moment, to 
say that in 1947, Mr. Emmet Lavery, who was then president of the 
guild, offered to turn over our records, our entire records to the FBI, 
so you know that at this time the administration of the guild was 
fighting, even then, the problem, but we did have this influence, and 
they exerted pressure on guild policy far beyond their numbers, just 
because of the apathy of the general membership. I know I was typi- 
cal, a typical screen writer. 1 was busily engaged in writing, engaged 
in my professional work, and I paid my dues. 

I didn't pay much attention to what was happening in the guild, 
and I think this is true of a great many writers, and it was along 
about 1947 that I was first alerted to this danger. Allen Rivkin called 
me saying he had formed something called the All-Guild Committee 
to fight the Communist influence in the guild. The All-Guild Com- 
mittee was composed of people who were violently anti-Communist 
and were aware of the danger. He asked me if I would run for office. 
He said, "If you are worried about this problem, as I am, you will run 
for office," and I agreed to. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was in what year ? 

Mr. Tunberg. That was in 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you a question which occurs to me at this 
point. You said your membership consisted of 1,200 ? 

Mr. Tunberg. That's right, approximately. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you stated that you had this problem of pres- 
sure brought upon your group by — I assume you mean by members 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Tunberg. I assume they were. 1 must say here, I was never in 
their confidence. I wasn't in a position to know who was a Communist 
and who was not. All I know is the people who were against us, who 
seemed to be extreme left-wing influence. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well,- at that time did you have a bylaw of your 
organization which established the number of members which would 
constitute a quorum for the transaction of business? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, we did. It was 10 percent, I believe, at the time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Ten percent, and 10 percent of 1,200 mean that busi- 
ness could be conducted with a membership of — I mean, with 120 
persons present? 

Mr. Tunberg. Ten percent of whatever the membership was at that 
date, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then should there be 61 persons present at that 
meeting who were members of the Communist Party, they could con- 
trol the action, if there was a bare quorum ? 

Mr. Tunberg. That is actually what happened, Mr. Tavenner. We 
have really been through the mill on fighting these people, and they 
capitalized to the ultimate on the lethargy, on the apathy which kept 
people away from meetings. We found it very difficult to get people, 
who worked all day, to get out at night and sit around until midnight 
at meetings. They capitalized on that. They were disciplined, they 
were militant, they were vigorous. They came to a man to meetings 
and dominated them for awhile. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Now, in that connection, this investiga- 
tion has disclosed, so far, I am told, 78 — the number may not be exactly 
correct. 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes; that is approximately right. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1837 

Mr. Tavenner. As far as our public hearings are concerned we have 
disclosed the fact that 78 writers in the Screen Writers' Guild were 
members of the Communist Party. Therefore, if you say that their 
membership turned out at these meetings and stayed there and out- 
lasted other people by staying when the others had gone, they would 
be able to control any meeting that you had? 

Mr. Tunberg. They could do this and, also, they were very clever. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is, any meeting where you had just a mere 
quorum present ( 

Mr. Tunberg. Exactly. In many cases, they would attract other 
people to their banner, of course ; liberals who didn't understand what 
was happening. They were very smart about espousing causes which 
could not be identified as communistic or political, and many times 
they would seduce genuine, honest liberals into voting their way, so 
in addition to the basic number,- whatever it was, there were a few 
others who would vote with them on these occasions and, as you point 
out, they did outwait people. People would get tired and go home, 
and they would bring up the really important thing that was in their 
mind late in the evening when most of the members had gone home, 
but their hard core of members had remained. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, did your organization take any steps to cor- 
rect the situation with reference to your 10 percent quorum? 

Mr. Tunberg. We did. We increased it to 20 percent. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that action taken? 

Mr. Tunberg. I don't remember the exact date. I think it was in 
1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, I think it is very important for you to explain 
these matters, because the problem that you were confronted with is 
the same problem that any organization is confronted with which 
has either been taken over by the Communist Party or deeply in- 
filtrated by the Communist Party. It might apply to parent-teachers 
association or any other group of people, so I think it very important 
that you outline these matters fully. 

Mr. Walter. Before going into that I think it would be interesting 
for us to know who the members of the All-Guild Committee were in 
making this fight against communism. You have given the name of 
Mr. Rivkin, I believe. Who were the other members ? 

Mr. Tunberg. The members of this anti-Communist front? 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mr. Tunberg. They were prominently Emmet Lavery, who was 
president in the beginning who carried on this fight almost alone. 
Then he attracted men like Allen Rivkin, George Seaton, Valentine 
Davies — a great many people — Mary McCall, Irving Stone was one 
of the most vociferous members of the All-Guild Committee. 

Do you want more names? 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mr. Tunberg. Charles Bracket!, who is president of the academy. 
Richard Breen. 

Mr. Jackson. Adele Buffington ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Adele Buffington, yes. Adele Buffington. Meehan 
was one. 

Mr. Jackson. Morrie Riskind? 

Mr. Tunberg. Morrie Riskind — I don't recall that he was in the 
All-Guild. I believe he was a member of this group, although I don't 



1838 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

remember meeting him at the meetings when I came in. I assume he 
was. I have heard of him. He hasn't been very active. In fact, 
he resigned from the guild some time ago, but I believe that he was 
in this group very early before he resigned. 

Mr. Walter. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Martin Berkeley a member of that group ? 

Mr. Tunberg. I heard that he was. Not to my personal knowledge, 
but I believe that he contributed to it and did help in this campaign, 
anti-Communist campaign. Did I mention Leonard Spiegelgass? 

Mr. Walter. No. 

Mr. Tunberg. He has been in the forefront of this fight, this anti- 
Communist fight, and still is. He is our vice president, but he has 
been through it for the last 4 or 5 years, to my knowledge. He came 
in with Emmet Lavery. He was one of the early fighters. 

Mr. Tavenner. We would like for you to give is the names of any 
persons that were probably omitted by you in your testimony here who 
were members of that organization. 

Mr. Tunberg. All right, I will endeavor to do so. 

Mr. Tavenner. I know it is rather difficult to recall a large group 
of names. 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes ; and it was a large group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you spoke of the remedy that you adopted of 
increasing the quorum from 10 percent to 20 percent. How did that 
operate ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, this forced more people to come out to meet- 
ings, or if they didn't come out it made the Communists unable to 
take any definitive action. Also, if people got tired and went home, it 
meant no official action or vote could be taken when there was not 
a quorum present. This is only one of the measures we took. The 
Communists, or, I should say, the left-wing influence in our guild had 
used the proxies. There is a provision in our constitution allowing 
proxy voting. We adopted that technique and used it against them. 
We went out and collected more proxies than they had. We con- 
ducted telephone campaigns before meetings, important meetings. 
We would— the board members, the members of the All-Guild Com- 
mittee — would each take a certain number of names and call up people 
and impress upon them and urge them to be present at meetings. We 
tried to match their speakers. I mentioned before that they are ex- 
tremely disciplined. They have extremely fine speakers on their side. 
They seem to go in for public speaking. They are polished orators. 
We had persons on our side whom we encouraged to talk, even when 
they weren't practiced orators, people that would be convincing by 
their sincerity and their honesty. We adopted — excuse me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let us approach it this way. Will you tell the 
committee what were the principal strategies used by the Communists 
in endeavoring to control your meetings when you had important 
issues before you, and in doing that, try to describe what counteraction 
you took, if any, in opposition to the strategy used by them ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, as I say, we adopted* their technique of proxies. 
We used them ourselves. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did they oppose at any time the use of proxies at 
your meetings? 

Mr. Tunberg. They have been consistently against this, ever since 
we got more proxies than they had, although they intended to use 
them. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1839 

Mr. Tavenner. So it was a rule that apparently was not intended 
to work both ways? 

Mr. Tunberg. That's right, exactly. They also physically, in the 
control of meetings, even the placement of these people was im- 
portant. They had what we call the diamond formation. That is, 
they wouldn't all sit on the left. 

Mr. Tavenner. The diamond formation? 

Mr. Tunberg. The diamond formation. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by that ? 

Mr. Tunberg. I mean not concentrating on one side of the hall, the 
meeting hall, but to spread out in a diamond formation. This has a 
number of advantages for a minority party, which they were. One 
is if they want to applaud, or if they want to boo or hiss, it sounds as 
though twice as many people are doing it, because they are all over the 
hall rather than in one group. 

Xow, it also means that the chairman, the presiding officer, has 
much more chance of recognizing them more frequently, because in 
trying to be fair the presiding officer will look around the hall and if 
they are in one place he won't recognize so many of them. But they 
would be staggered in this formation and it worked very well. 

Another physical technique was the use of first and second teams. 
They would put 

Mr. Tavenner. Wait a minute. Let's talk a little more about this 
diamond formation. Did it have the effect, also, of indicating that 
the strength, that the applause was coming from the audience as a 
whole rather than from just segments? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir; it did have that effect. It had the effect 
of twice as much applause. 

Mr. Tavenner. So that it had the effect of stampeding 

Mr. Tunberg. That's right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Those who had not made up their minds on an 
issue ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Exactly. It was very effective. 

Mr. Tavenner. They used that tactic in your meetings ? 

Mr. Tunberg. They still use it. 

Mr. Tavenner. What did you do to counteract that, if anything ? 

Mr. Tunberg. The only way to defeat a thing like that is to be aware 
of it. I know in my terms as presiding officer, when I am aware of it 
I can always not fall for it. As I say, we have speakers on our side 
and I try to be fair and distribute it so that they don't get the floor too 
often or dominate the debate to the exclusion of others. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of the first and second terms. What do 
you mean by that? 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, simply that they never shoot their bolt too 
early. They were too clever for that. They would put in their sec- 
ond-line speakers, the least persuasive speakers, and let them ramble 
on and on and wear people out, drive them out of the hall, drive people 
out. Then when it was late in the evening and they really wanted to 
put over something important they would bring out the big guns, 
the really persuasive, polished orators. We learned by experience not 
to shoot our biggest guns at their second team, but let them talk them- 
selves out and wait for them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are there any other technical or strategic princi- 
ples that they followed in attempting to control, or of the minority 
attempting to control the majority at the meeting? 



1840 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tunberg. Mr. Tavenner, I have jotted down several that have 
occurred to me. We adopted the practice of referring more im- 
portant issues, especially constitutional issues, in the guild to a mail 
vote, where it couldn't be stampeded. As I say, we inaugurated a 
proxy campaign and gathered more proxies than they had. We 
adopted the practice of limiting our agenda at any membership 
meeting early in the meeting so they couldn't add to the agenda later 
on when people had gone home. I mentioned the telephone campaign, 
which was laborious but effective, because it did alert people in- 
dividually. 

The biggest weapon, I think, in fighting them is exposure. If you 
are going to fight them with democratic methods, and we have done 
that, and we are proud of the fact that we have defeated them by 
democratic methods, the only thing is to expose them for what they 
are, not as liberals but as Communists. I may say that I think that 
is the essential value of these hearings right here today. I mean the 
first step in a democracy is to make people understand what the 
issues are, who the enemy is, and any honest exposure will do that. 
We try to do that. 

Mr. Walter. I suppose that now all of your organization has a 
voice in its affairs, you are charged with being an undemocratic 
organization. 

Mr. Tunberg. We have from the start. The people I mentioned, 
those in the All-Guild Committee, anyone who opposed them has been 
charged with being a reactionary from the very start. This is one of 
their techniques, too. 

Mr. Jackson. Not a Fascist, just simply a reactionary ? 
Mr. Tunberg. Fascist, reactionary. 
Mr. Potter. Warmonger? 

Mr. Tunberg. All the words have been used. Anybody who is 
against them is one of these things. I have been called that many 
times, although I fancy myself a liberal. 

Mr. Tavenner. You referred to the first and second teams. Can 
you identify here the names of any of those that you refer to as the 
big guns of the first team who were accustomed to doing the speaking? 
Mr. Tunberg. Well, names familiar to all of us. John Howard 
Lawson was apparently the captain of the first team, and an extremely 
persuasive and polished speaker. Lester Cole was another; Albert 
Maltz, not only a brilliant writer but a brilliant speaker, a man much 
better at speaking than I, who can think on his feet, a quick, agile 
man. I have mentioned Lawson, Cole and Maltz. Trumbo was a 
splendid speaker, a member of their first team. Those are a few 
names that occur to me. 

The second team would be men like Eddie Huebsch, Mike Wilson, 
that type of person. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of the membership being 1,200, and we 
have through examination of your minutes and through the testi- 
mony of witnesses traced many of the issues involved in your meet- 
ings and the positions that different people took on those issues and 
particularly as to elections. I have asked the question here several 
times during these hearings as to whether different individuals sup- 
ported Albert Maltz in the 1948 election, I think, or signed his peti- 
tion. Now I would like to know a little about the method of election 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1841 

of officers and how people become candidates and how campaigns are 
conducted for office. 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, Mr. Tavenner, according to the guild constitu- 
tion, every year about this time our annual election, which is usually 
November 15, a nominating committee is appointed by the board of 
directors. The constitution provides that no more than three members 
of the board of directors may be on this committee. The nominating 
committee then is charged with selecting candidates for the various 
offices and board positions. The constitution of the guild instructs 
this committee to endeavor to find at least two for each office, or more 
if possible. The nominating committee then makes its report to the 
board and if it is accepted, this ballot goes out to the membership. 
This is a mail vote, and it is amplified at the annual meeting on No- 
vember 15 by a vote in the meeting. Proxies are eligible, of course, 
here, too. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are candidates for office left free to circularize the 
membership ? 

Mr. Tunberg. No, sir. Each year the then existing board deter- 
mines its policy on that. In some years in the past the board has 
decided that there will be an open membership meeting at which 
candidates can state their platforms. In recent years the board has 
discontinued this, feeling that it was a waste of time and money and 
the people knew pretty much where the nominees stood anyway. It 
has always been intermittently the practice to send out campaign state- 
ments through the guild office, but these statements would be written 
out by the candidates and then sent out to the membership by the 
guild. Even this practice, however, in the last year or so has been 
discontinued. 

(At this point Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing 
room. ) 

Mr. Tavenner. I notice you said the letters would be sent out to the 
membership by the officials of the guild. 

Mr. Tunberg. That's right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Could not a candidate for office send his own cam- 
paign literature directly to the membership % 

Mr. Tunberg. I don't see how that would be possible unless he had 
the official membership list of the guild. If he had that it would be 
illegal because we just don't give our membership list to anyone. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, no one is supposed to have the 
membership list ? 

Mr. Tunberg. That's right. You can see the abuses that would be 
possible if this list were circularized. We just don't give it out. We 
never have. There have been attempts to authorize giving out the 
membership lists, we have never done it. Even in the case of charity 
drives we say to the charity, "We will handle the drive; we will 
circularize our members," and we do it. But we always do it through 
our office. 

Mr. Tavenner. If I were a member of your guild and would desire 
your address, for instance, and would telephone the guild headquar- 
ters, would I be furnished with your address ? 

Mr. Tunberg. No, sir. You would be told that you could send your 
communication to the guild and they would forward it to me, or you 
would be told that I would be informed that you wanted to speak to 



1842 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

me and then I could use my own judgment as to whether I should talk 
to you. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is another effective method by which you can 
assure the will of the majority ? 

Mr. Tunberg. That's right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Tunberg. That's right. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you say is the chief difficulty in success- 
fully fighting the efforts of an infiltration group to take over control 
of an organization? What is the chief problem that you have con- 
fronting you ? 

Mr. Tunberg. The chief problem, I think, is alerting the member- 
ship, alerting your citizens. Free speech, freedom of the press, free- 
dom of expression is only half of it. You have to be eternally vigilant. 
If we are going to have free speech you must be very sure that the 
majority understands the issues and who the people are that are 
running it. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, if the membership of your organi- 
zation became apathetic, why, you have little chance of succeeding 
in fighting the inroads? 

Mr. Tunberg. That's right. Then the rights that we all prize be- 
come abused and perverted, I think. It is only when these rights are 
exercised by a vigilant majority that you can make a democracy work. 
I think we have done that. 

Mr. Tavenner. So that the membership stays home and fails to 
vote, fails to express its opinion, you are in a weakened position and 
the outcome is almost certain to be that of successful infiltration of 
your organization ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Exactly. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that is true of any organization which the 
Communist Party would endeavor to infiltrate? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir; I think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there any other devices which you have not 
named which are of importance in attempting to successfully combat 
an effort to infiltrate your organization, that you may not have men- 
tioned ? 

Mr. Tunberg. I think 

Mr. Tavenner. I'm not certain that I heard all of what you said 
when you testified. 

Did you refer to a course of action to limit the time which any 
speaker may appear in support of a particular resolution? 

Mr. Tunberg. No, sir, I didn't. I am glad you mentioned it, be- 
cause that is another device that we use to prevent their dominating 
the debate. W r e sometimes would limit the debate — limit the time of 
a speaker. I think I did mention that they were pretty experienced 
parliamentarians and knew when to interrupt a speaker that was 
pretty effective on our point, on a point of order, and they resorted 
to this kind of tactics frequently. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you did not have some limitation on their right 
of appearance on a particular issue your meeting might be protracted 
indefinitely ? 

Mr. Tunberg. That's right. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1843 

Mr. Tavenner. Information has come to our attention that on oc- 
casion your organization in order to revise the efforts of domination 
has stayed in session as late as 5 o'clock in the morning. 

Mr. Tunberg. That's right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that correct? 

Mr. Tunberg. That's true. I don't remember the exact hour, but 
it was very early in the morning we have been in session several times. 

Mr. Tavenner. And it would only be because of the perseverance 
and loyalty of your members that would enable you to survive the 
attack? 

Mr. Tunberg. That's right. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask you whether or not the mem- 
bers of the Communist Party — I will strike that question. I will ask 
you whether efforts have been made to obtain financial support from 
your organization for enterprises which you considered to be the 
projects of the Communist Part.v. 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, a few that I recall were attempts to get us in- 
terested in certain strikes in the industry, to contribute to strike funds. 
The strike in 1945, the left-wing element in the guild attempted to 
get us to give $10,000 in support of the CSU strike. They attempted 
to revitalize and reorganize the Hollywood Writers' Mobilization 
after 1945, when the need for it had gone. I think apparently their 
plan was to use it some way as a front organization, although it had 
not been started that way and, according to my recollection, has never 
functioned that way. 

They did, however. When it continued, we were supporting them 
along with other guilds and organizations, by a donation of $10,000 a 
year. 

Mr. Tavenner. That has been testified to by Mr. Richard Collins. 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes. There have been attempts to get us interested 
in the criminal proceedings of the so-called unfriendly 10, attempts 
to get the guild to furnish counsel for them. There have been in- 
formal attempts to get the members of the guild to support their 
wives and families. These are a few things that occur to me in at- 
tempts to get funds, all unsuccessful, may I say. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall any other efforts? 

Mr. Tunberg. These are the only attempts to get funds, that I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you recall attempts to obtain action on the 
part of the guild which would aid in the promotion of any project 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Tunberg. There have been many such attempts, and I would 
like to say here, now, our records are still open to you. We are proud 
of them because we have defeated all of these attempts. We, some 
years ago, laid down the principle that this is a group dedicated to the 
interests of professional writers, that politics have no place in this, 
and we have defeated consistently their attempt to drag us into po- 
litical matters. There have been many such attempts. As I say, the 
attempt to get us to put our resources at the disposal of the people who 
were cited for contempt is one example. The attempts to get us to go 
on their briefs before the Supreme Court 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Now, tell ns more about that. 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, both Mr. Cole and Mr. Lawson appeared be- 
fore our board on several occasions and attempted to get the guild 

81595— 51— pt. 5 14 



1844 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

to endorse and sign, go on their brief before the Supreme Court, and 
in every instance we refused to do this. An example of that is the 
so-called Hugo Butler resolution, which is the resolution which was 
an attempt to get the guild to put its resources behind these people. 

Mr. Tavenner. Hugo Butler is one of those who has been subpenaed 
before the committee, and the committee is not aware of his where- 
abouts. 

Mr. Walter. Silent witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Silent witness. Now, about when was the Hugo 
Butler resolution presented? 

Mr. Tunberg. I can tell you exactly here. I have a few records 
here. January 13, 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. I may say that for the benefit of the record Mr. 
Hugo Black's name has been mentioned — Hugo Butler's name as well 
as Black's, but Black only in connection with his opinion, the opinion 
of the Supreme Court; but that Hugo Butler's name has been men- 
tioned by witnesses durino- the course of the testimonv, and that Com- 
munist Party meetings were alleged to have taken place at his home. 
Now, will you give us the date of the 

Mr. Tunberg. January 13, 1918. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you have described these efforts that have 
been made. Are there others that you could mention ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, there are many efforts to — as I say, both Cole 
and Lawson appeared before the board to get us to go on their brief 
to the Supreme Court. I think there were two or three such attempts. 
There was a series of agitations in favor of these people, and some of 
them were rather appealing on the basis of charity and humane quali- 
ties. I mean, the one, for instance, to support their families is one 
difficult to deny. 

Mr. Tavenner. Those are all efforts made within your organization 
by persons who are members of it ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, have there been any efforts from the outside — 
that is, from persons who were members of your organization to 
control its policy or its action on projects or enterprises which you 
identified as being projects of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Tunberg. Mr. Tavenner, if I understand your question cor- 
rectly, in our study of Commuist efforts to infiltrate unions and guilds, 
we find that if they can't infiltrate, if they can't control the guild or 
union, they attempt to destroy it and discredit it. Now, I think re- 
cently, since they were unsuccessful in our guild, they have done all 
they can do to discredit our guild. I think right now, for instance, 
they would be very happy if the public impression was that we were 
honeycombed with Communists which, as you know and I know, is 
not true, but it would discredit that they couldn't control and, there- 
fore, they would deny the use of this guild to us. They have done 
this : They have attacked us through other guilds. There was one case 
that comes to mind, which is the case of the Radio Writers' Guild. We 
recently were in negotiations for a minimum basic agreement with the 
major motion-picture studios, and one of the provisions for which 
we were negotiating was a hundred percent guild shop. According 
to the Taft-Hartley law, in order to negotiate for a hundred percent 
shop, you must have an authorizing election among the workers in 
the field. We applied for such an election. Now, also, according to 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1845 

the Taft-Hartley law, the officials of a guild or union must sign non- 
Communist affidavits. We have always done this as a matter of course. 
The parent organization that we are affiliated with, the Authors' 
League of America, the parent organization, had done so, too, and 
in a ruling, the NLRB Board decided the members of the Authors' 
League Council were officers of the Authors' League within the mean- 
ing of the law. 

Therefore, they, too, would have to sign non-Communist affidavits. 
This was a chance to attack us and to discredit us, and the 12 dele- 
gates in the Radio Writers' Guild refused to sign the non-Communist 
affidavits, and the effect of this was to deny us the election, the NLRB 
election. Later this ruling was reversed, but it is significant that 
the 12 refusals to sign the non-Communist affidavits came from — 
I believe 12 came from the Radio Writers' Group. I have always 
interpreted this — this is my personal opinion — as an attack based 
at least partly on political reasons. There was a recent such attack 
at a convention in New York at the Authors' League. Again the 
Radio Writers came to the attack and undertook to deny us tele- 
vision jurisdiction, but it is a campaign from within, which you men- 
tion, to attack this guild. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have mentioned the requirements of the Taft- 
Hartley Act with regard to loyalty affidavits, and you stated that 
you complied with the provisions of that act ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any difficulty in obtaining compliance 
by your organization, or any particular issue raised about it? 

Mr. Tunberg. No; there was never any difference about the Taft- 
Hartley affidavits. You see, these are required only of the officers 
of the guild 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Tunberg. And during my experience as an officer, within the 
past 3 years, we have never had any difficulty with this. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it at any time necessary to pass a resolution 
on the subject of executing a loyalty affidavit, a non-Communist 
affidavit? 

Mr. Tunberg. There was at one time, recently, about a year ago — 
I think a little over a year ago — considerable feeling in the guild 
that the entire membership should sign such an affidavit in the form 
of a loyalty oath. This came before the membership at a meeting 
one night, rather a sparsely attended meeting, and there was a fili- 
buster against this thing. A great many people spoke against it from 
this left-wing group, and when it finally seemed this resolution would 
come up for a vote, they called for a quorum and then left the room. 
That is, the left-wing group left the hall as a bod}', so we had no 
quorum and could not vote. 

Mr. Walter. Wait a minute. Do I understand that the very people 
who raised the question of a quorum left a meeting in order to prevent 
the counting of a quorum ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. This was my impression. I couldn't prove 
this, but it seemed to me, from looking down from the dais that that 
is exactly what was happening, and we had no quorum a moment 
later. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did that trick occur on any other occasion ? 



1846 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tunberg. Not to my memor}-. This was a new one. I thought 
I knew them all, but this was a new one. 

Mr. Tavexxer. To break the quorum by leaving the meeting and 
then immediately come back? 

Mr. Tunberg. Then come back and speak some more ; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Tunberg. Now, then, subsequently there was a resolution 
brought before the board. There was a debate about this. It was 
thought that the board should take a voluntary non-Communist — 
sign a voluntary non-Communist affidavit, and the board did this 
unanimously, even though not required by the Taft-Hartley law to 
do so. The board has signed such a non-Communist affidavit, every 
member of the board. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Now, was there any particular difficulty or dispute 
over the voluntary signing of the affidavit by members of the board? 

Mr. Tuxberg. Yes, Mr. Tavenner, there was. There was a very 
heated debate about this. Some people objected on principle to a. 
loyalty oath as a contingency, as a qualification for membership in the 
guild on purely — the grounds was that this was a professional writers' 
organization, and, as such, should never be a qualification for member- 
ship. Others objected on the ground that it wouldn't do any good, 
that a dyed-in-the-wool Communist would sign it very happily and 
go on about his way, and that it would not have the desired effect of 
flushing out the Communists. So there was, I think, an honest dif- 
ference of opinion about this among several of our members. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Do you know the circumstances surrounding the 
execution of it by Carl Foreman ? 

Mr. Tuxberg. Yes, sir. We debated this thing for some time. As 
I say, there were some people who felt that the signing of such a volun- 
tary oath would be useless. He was one of them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he sign it when the others signed it? 

Mr. Tuxberg. No. No, he finally — he finally said that he would 
sign it. We then lined up to sign it, and when it came his turn he said 
he wanted to study it further and would take it home with him. He 
did, and, subsequently, sent it in by mail with his signature on it. 

Mr. Walter. It couldn't have been sworn to. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Well, was there a separate affidavit — I mean, sep- 
arate oath given to him, if this were an affidavit and signed before a 
notary public? 

Mr. Tuxberg. Perhaps I have given the wrong impression there. 
These were voluntary statements and were not signed. They were 
not notarized. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I'm sorry. 

Mr. Tuxberg. In the case of the Taft-Hartley affidavits they were. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes. Go on. 

Mr. Tavexxer. These were just simply voluntary statements. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated in the earlier part of your testimony 
that to your knowledge there had been only two persons, within the 
period of time, and I do not recall what period of time — 

Mr. Tuxberg. A period of 

Mr. Tavexxer. Who were officials of the organization and had been 
members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Tuxberg. No, that isn't the impression I meant to give. I don't 
believe that is what I said. I said only two people, from among those 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1847 

who have been subpenaed, because I have no way of knowing whether 
they are members of the party or not. 

Mr. Tavenner. I see. I understand. Well, who were the two 
persons who have been subpenaed here who have been officials of your 
organization ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Harold Buchnian was a member of the board in, I 
believe, 1948, and Carl Foreman, who is a member of the present board. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Sidney Buchman had ever 
been an official of your organization ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Sidney Buchman was president, I believe, in 1940 
or 1941. 

Mr. Tavenner. William Pomerance? 

Mr. Tunberg. William Pomerance was executive secretary some 
time ago. I think it was about that period. I think he was executive 
secretary around 1944, 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. And Charles Page ? 

Mr. Tunberg. I believe he was executive secretary before Mr. Pom- 
erance. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Ann Roth Morgan ever at any time hold an 
official position with the guild? 

Mr. Tunberg. After we got rid of Mr. Pomerance, she was executive 
secretary for a short time. 

Mr. Walter. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock. 

(Whereupon an adjournment was taken in the above hearings until 
the hour of 2 p. m. of the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(Whereupon at the hour of 2 : 10 p. m. of the same day, the proceed- 
ings were resumed, the same parties being present with the exception 
of Representative Charles E. Potter.) 

Mr. Walter. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Tunberg. 

TESTIMONY OF KAEL TUNBERG— Eesumed 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Tunberg, you were asked this morning to fur- 
nish the committee with the names of those who were members of the 
all-guild committee and you did give the names of those whom you 
could recall at the time. During the recess have you been able to 
refresh your recollection as to the names of others ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. I'm sorry that I couldn't remember a more 
complete list this morning but I have a more complete list here now, 
and I would like to give it to you because I think that anyone who has 
been in the forefront of this anti-Communist fight should be publicly 
recognized. May I read it now ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Tunberg. This is a rather complete list — not a complete list 
but a rather full list of those who fought with this committee. Sher- 
idan Gibney, F. Hugh Herbert 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last names, please. 

Mr. Tunberg. Sheridan Gibney, the last name is G-i-b-n-e-y; 
F. Hugh Herbert, H-e-r 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you raise your voice a little more. 



1848 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Tunberg. F. Hugh Herbert, Herbert H-e-r-b-e-r-t ; George 
Seaton, S-e-a-t-o-n; Dwight Taylor, T-a-y-1-o-r; Arthur Sheekman, 
S-h-e-e-k-m-a-n ; Harry Tugend, T-u-g-e-n-d ; Robert Ardrey, A-r-d- 
r-e-y; Art Arthur, A-r-t-h-u-r; Stephen Morehouse Avery, deceased, 
A-v-e-r-y; Claude Binyon. B-i-n-y-o-n; Frank Cavett, C-a-v-e-t-t; 
Olive Cooper, C-o-o-p-e-r; Valentine Davies, D-a-v-i 

Mr. Tavenner. Not quite so rapidly. 

Mr. Tunberg. Valentine Davies was the last thing, D-a-v-i-e-s. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of the individual before Mr. 
Davies ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Olive Cooper, C-o-o-p-e-r. After Mr. Davies, Rich- 
ard English, E-n-g-1-i-s-h; Everett Freeman, F-r-e-e-m-a-n; Paul 
Gangelin, G-a-n-g-e-1-i-n ; Dorothy Bennett Hannah, H-a-n-n-a-h; 
Milton Krims, K-r-i-m-s ; Ernest Pascal, P-a-s-c-a-1 ; Leonard Spiegel- 
gass, S-p-i-e-g-e-1-g-a-s-s ; Brenda Weisberg, W-e-i-s-b-e-r-g; Robert 
Arthur, A-r-t-h-u-r; Graham Baker, B-a-k-e-r; Earl Baldwin, 
B-a-1-d-w-i-n; Sy Bartlett, B-a-r-t-1-e-t-t .; D. D. Beauehamp, B-e-a-u- 
c-h-a-m-p; Edmund Beloin, B-e-1-o-i-n; Charles Bennett, B-e-n- 
n-e-t-t; Charles Brackett, B-r-a-c-k-e-t-t; Houston Branch, 
B-r-a-n-c-h; George Bricker, B-r-i-c-k-e-r; Oscar Brodney, B-r-o-d- 
n-e-y ; Adele Buffington, B-u-f-f -i-n-g-t-o-n ; Betty Burbridge, B-u-r- 
b-r-i-d-g-e ; John K. Butler, B-u-t-1-e-r ; James M. Cain, C-a-i-n ; Roy 
Chanslor, C-h-a-n-s-1-o-r; Lewis Foster, F-o-s-t-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell the first name ? 

Mr. Tunberg. L-e-w-i-s Foster. Frederick Frank, F-r-a-n-k ; Bert 
Granet, G-r-a-n-e-t; Kenneth Garnet, G-a-m-e-t; Howard J. Green, 
G-r-e-e-n; Norman Hall, H-a-1-1; Edmund Hartmann, E-d-m-u-n-cl 
H-a-r-t-m-a-n-n ; Agnes Johnson, J-o-h-n-s-o-n ; Sylvia Fine Kaye, 
K-a-y-e; John Larkin, L-a-r-k-i-n; Jesse Lasky, Jr., L-a-s-k-y; Em- 
met La very, L-a-v-e-r-y; Alan LeMay, L-e-M-a-y; Stephen Long- 
street, L-o-n-g-s-t-r-e-e-t ; Barre Lyndon, B-a-r-r-e, Lyndon L-y-n- 
d-o-n; Mary McCall, M-c-C-a-1-1; Elizabeth Meehan, M-e-e-h-a-n; 
Winston Miller, M-i-1-l-e-r; Peter Milne, M-i-1-n-e; Dudley Nichols, 
N-i-c-h-o-l-s; Walter Reilly, R-e-i-1-l-y; Allen Rivkin, R-i-v-k-i-n; 
Bradford Ropes, R-o-p-e-s ; Leo Rosten, R-o-s-t-e-n ; Barney Sarecky, 
S-a-r-e-c-k-y ; Tom Seller, S-e-1-l-e-r ; Irving Stone, S-t-o-n-e ; Wanda 
Tuchock, W-a-n-d-a, Tuchock T-u-c-h-o-c-k ; John Twist, T-w-i-s-t; 
M. Coates Webster, W-e-b-s-t-er, M. C-o-a-t-e-s; Clarence U. Young, 
Y-o-u-n-g. 

That is not the complete list, but it is a rather full one. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Tunberg, in the course of the conduct of the 
business of your guild, are you called upon, or is the guild called 
upon by the Defense Department to furnish personnel to aid in de- 
fense projects of one kind or another? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. We are called on by the Defense Depart- 
ment and by the State Department to furnish writers for documentary 
films and for Government films and for training films. 

Mr. Tavenner. To furnish writers for documentary films? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that include also training films ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes ; it has in the past. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just what do you mean by training films? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1849 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, film used by the Air Force, by the Army. I 
am not acquainted with their recent demands, but we have in the past 
supplied them writers to write these films. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, persons who are selected for work of that 
kind, from the very character of their work, must have access to 
various items of the military equipment, radar, fire control, and so 
forth ? 

Mr. Tunberg. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the photographs of those articles? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there any safeguard resorted to in the selection 
of the individuals who are to be furnished to the Defense Depart- 
ment for those important projects? 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, informally, Mr. Tavenner. We, of course, are 
very careful about whom we suggest, but over and beyond that, once 
we give a list of available writers to such departments, they are then 
carefully screened, of course. 

Mr. Tavenner. They are screened by the Defense Department ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. They must be cleared. Their names, those 
available for such work, must submit their names some time in ad- 
vance so that the screening which takes some time— it is a very rig- 
orous screening — can take place. 

Mr. Tavenner. Possibly I misunderstood you. Did you mean they 
are selected for the positions and then screened later ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do they enter upon the performance of their duties, 
and then are later screened? 

Mr. Tunberg. No, sir. They don't enter upon their duties until 
they have been cleared by the Government so-called loyalty check, I 
believe it is, but it is quite an exhaustive check. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe those are all the questions that I desire 
to ask you. If there is any further statement that you desire to 
make about the activity of the guild 

Mr. Tunberg. There are a number of things I would like to say 
Mr. Tavenner. One 

Mr. Tavenner. Possibly you should respond to the committee 
members. 

Mr. Tunberg. I wanted to correct an error in my testimony this 
morning first. I believe I said that Ann Eoth had been executive 
secretary of the guild after Mr. Pomerance. I was wrong. She pre- 
ceded Mr. Pomerance. In the interests of accuracy I wanted to men- 
tion that. I also left out a few tactics that we have used against these 
people. Perhaps you would care to ask me questions first. 

Mr. Walter. No, you proceed with your statement. 

Mr. Tunberg. One thing I neglected to mention, in our fighting the 
Communists, we restricted the membership meetings to members 
only. We found that the leftist elements would bring other people. 
They would bring their wives and their friends in order to create — 
even though they coudn't vote, to create the maximum uproar. One 
phase of our defense against this was to limit meetings only to quali- 
fied members. We also carefully screened our staif. You see, in 
working on a full-time basis for the guild we have a rather large staff 
of people and we found that we had to be more careful about whom we 
employed. There had been in the past several leaks in the office. We 



1850 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

think that these leaks have been stopped forever. The leftist ele- 
ments — yon have heard testimony about fraction meetings, cells. In- 
formation did come to us of these caucus meetings which they would 
have before every important membership meeting, to organize strate- 
gy. We adopted the same technique. We had our own caucus meet- 
ings to combat this. 

Another thing, in a more general way I would like to say, is that 
it took a coalition to defeat them. I think this might be important to 
anyone else who has a similar problem. As I said, the guild, the 1,200 
members of the guild, represent all shades of opinion, but it took a for- 
getting of individual differences. We all had to unite against this one 
element, whether Republicans, Democrats, what they were, and it 
finally took a strong coalition of people to defeat this, and I think this 
is true in all cases. 

Mr. Walter. Any questions, Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Tunberg, under Public Law 601, by virtue of which 
this subcommittee of the main committee is here from Washington, 
Congress has directed that we not only look into the subject of the 
diffusion within the United States of subversive programs which may 
emanate from foreign countries or domestically, but we are expressly 
charged by the text of Public Law 601 to look into all other questions-— 
and I am quoting — "in relation thereto that would aid Congress in 
any necessary remedial legislation." 

(At this time Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing 
room.) 

Mr. Doyle. Now, therefore, I needn't say to you further that one of 
the heavier responsibilities of this committee, which you are cooperat- 
ing with and helping — and we appreciate it — is that we shall think of 
these hearings objectively and report back to the United States Con- 
gress any additional legislation or remedial legislation which will help 
meet the problem of subversive influences and propaganda in our 
country. 

Have you any suggestion or advice to this committee as to what we 
might recommend to the United States Congress in legislation ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, I have. It is my personal opinion that the Com- 
munist Party should be outlawed. I think it should be illegal. 

Mr. Doyle. Why ? 

Mr. Tunberg. I think any party that has to meet in secret, in frac- 
tion and cell meetings, any party where people are afraid to say that 
they are members of it, where they have to resort to false names and 
where their aims are so manifestly un-American, should be illegal. I 
don't see the reason for quibbling over this, myself. There may be 
reasons that I don't know about. I don't know what they are. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, the main objection we hear given is that if you 
outlaw the Communist Party, no matter if they do on the face of it 
seem to be meeting secretly, you will drive them further underground. 
Is that an appraisal that you agree with or not? 

Mr. Tunberg. No, I don't think you could drive them further under- 
ground. We had to dig and dig and dig to find them as it has been. 
They are underground anyway. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, not far enough, apparently. 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, I sometimes wonder, sir, if — I know you have 
done a great job of uncovering a great many of them ; and, as I said 
earlier, I suppose yours is doubly important, especially in the demo- 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1851 

cratic system like ours, because that is the only way. Only after expo- 
sure can we know how to vote and how to govern ourselves, but I 
wonder if we discovered them all. 

Mr. Dotle. Well, do you feel from what you know, from your wide 
experience, that there is an element within the Communist Party that 
is definitely interested in the overturning and overthrowing, the ruin- 
ing utterly, of our form of Government? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir; I do believe that. 

Mr. Doyle. Why do you believe that? 

Mr. Tunberg. On the basis of what I have heard in conversations 
that I have had with people I have suspected of being members of the 
party. That's about it. But I have heard enough — I have talked 
enough with these people to mistrust their motives and to mistrust 
their loyalty, may I say. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you any other suggestion for us in the field of 
legislation ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, this is a rather vague suggestion, but if some- 
thing could be done to identify people — when you vote for a Repub- 
lican, you know what he is. If you vote for a Democrat, you know 
what he is ; but you never know what a Communist is. If the party is 
not outlawed, at least there should be some way of identifying him, 
letting people know what they are voting for and what these people 
stand for. I don't know how you could do this, but it is lack of knowl- 
edge that is the great danger. I am sure that the majority of people 
in this country are against this sort of thing, the overwhelming major- 
ity, but a lot of them don't know about it. A lot of liberals are con- 
fused, confusing what is a liberal issue with something backed by a 
more subversive group. 

Mr. Doyle. One more question. Do I understand from your answer 
just a minute ago to me that, based on your wide experience in the Los 
Angeles area, you are under the conviction that there are men and 
women in the Communist Party who would join in the forceful revolu- 
tion or revolution by the use of force, if need be, to accomplish the 
overthrow of the American system of government ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. Mr. Doyle, I believe, number one, from what 
I have read — I have studied communism a little bit; I have studied 
Marxism in college, and I have talked with very few but with people 
that I had reason to think knew all about this movement. As I said 
earlier, I distrust them. I distrust their motives. I don't think they 
are really Americans. . 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. 

(At this time Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the 
hearing room.) 

Mr. Walter. Thank you very much, Mr. Tunberg. 

Mr. Tunberg. Mr. Chairman, there is one further 

Mr. Walter. Excuse me. Mr. Jackson, have you any further 
questions? 

Mr. Jackson. A couple of questions. With further reference to the 
Writers' Mobilization, the committee has had in the past members of 
the Screen Writers' Guild who, the evidence before the committee in- 
dicated, did work for the United States Government on some of these 
writing projects who have refused to answer the questions of the com- 
mittee not only as to whether or not they were members of the Writers* 
Mobilization but the nature of the work upon which they were engaged,. 



1852 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

refused to answer any questions in that connection. This fact, when 
taken with relation to the other evidence which was available with re- 
spect to the individual writers, would seem to indicate that some of 
the assignments were given to people who, if not actual members of the 
Communist Party, were certainly sympathetic toward its aims and 
goals. Is the procedure at the present time with respect to writers 
who are assigned to such projects the same as it has been in the past? 
Do you simply make a list of the entire membership or a portion there- 
of available to the Government, or do you do any screening at all in 
the Screen Writers Guild? 

Mr. Tunberg. We do a certain amount of it. The procedure has 
changed. You referred to the Writers' Mobilization. This does not 
come within my direct experience. I did not become active until 
1947. 

Mr. Jackson. I understand that. 

Mr. Tunberg. My understanding is that the Writers' Mobilization, 
which was started as a Government agency to help the Government in 
the writing of material, not only restricted material but unrestricted 
material for bond drives, for tours, I think practically every — this 
Mobilization was started, and practically every writer in Hollywood 
was a member of it. It was only later that the Communists saw the 
possibility of taking this over, and I think early in the history of the 
Writers' Mobilization there probably wasn't a screening of these 
people, especially when they weren't dealing with restricted material. 

Mr. Jackson. Well, could you set a figure on the present member- 
ship of the Screen Writers' Guild of admitted or known members of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Tunberg. I could only guess at it. 

Mr. Jackson. What would your best guess be ? 

Mr. Tunberg. These are now people who have admitted pub- 



licly- 

Mr. Jackson. That's right, either on the stand or have been so 
identified. 

Mr. Tunberg. I should say probably 60. 

Mr. Jackson. Sixty? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. What is your present membership? 

Mr. Tunberg. Twelve hundred. 

Mr. Jackson. Twelve hundred? 

Mr. Tunberg. Twelve hundred ; yes, sir, approximately. I think it 
is a few under that — 1,180; something like that. 

Mr. Jackson. But your feeling is that the Screen Writers' Guild as 
of today has the situation in hand ; that there is no chance of a repe- 
tition of what occurred when there appeared to have been a succession 
of secretaries 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson (continuing) . Who, if they were not members of the 
Communist Party, themselves, certainly lent every aid and comfort 
to the Communist Party ? It is your feeling — is it, Mr. Tunberg ?— 
that that situation is today in hand in the Screen Writers' Guild? 

Mr. Tunberg. It is indeed, sir. I feel that it is well in hand. I 
should point out here that after we got rid of Mr. Pomerance we then 
had an executive secretary by the name of Alice Penneman, who 
served us well for several years. She recently retired, and we now 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1853 

have another executive secretary named Frances Engels. In both these 
cases, I think these secretaries are above reproach. As far as your 
asking "Do you feel that there is any chance of a repetition ?" I think 
there is always the chance of a repetition if people don't remain vigi- 
lant. I think we have the situation well in hand. I think that it could 
get out of hand if we didn't watch it. I think it could get out of hand in 
this country if we didn't watch it. I think the clear and present danger 
is communism today. 

Mr. Jackson. I think that is pretty generally accepted, and it would 
certainly be my hope that other organizations which are under this 
attack would take a look at the experiences in the Screen Writers' 
Guild and realize that it is not sheer force of numbers that makes it 
possible to dominate and direct but, rather, a laxity on the part of the 
majority of the members of the organization who come late and leave 
early and allow untrammeled control of the operations of the organi- 
zation. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Tunberg, we deeply appreciate your coopera- 
tion 



Mr. Tunberg. Mr. Chairman, could I ask one further question? 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mr. Tunberg. In the testimony yesterday — I watched it on tele- 
vision; I believe it was yesterday — a certain editorial was read into 
the record. I think maybe some people may get the impression from 
this that people who have cooperated with the committee in the past in 
the form of so-called friendly witnesses may have been victimized by 
certain employers. 

Mr. Walter. I am wondering. I was just about to ask you do you 
know who the witnesses were — ■ — 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Walter (continuing). Who testified before this committee? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Who were they ? 

Mr. Tunberg. I would like to say that at the beginning of this cur- 
rent hearing, the Motion Picture Industry Council did write a letter — 
and the Motion Picture Industry Council does represent all phases of 
the motion-picture industry, creative, crafts, management, producers, 
directors — pointing out that these people had not been victimized 
in any way by any employer in the motion-picture industry. I do have 
a list of these people who were mentioned who testified. 

Mr. Walter. Do you know what they are doing now ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. I have 

Mr. Walter. Well, will you give us the list and tell us what they 
tire doing, whether employed, whether they have been employed since 
they testified in Washington. 

Mr. Tunberg. This is a list of people who testified on the so-called 
friendly basis, and in some quarters it has been said that they were 
kept out of employment. Morrie Kiskind was one. Now, Mr. Ris- 
kind, I want to point out, has never really been, primarily, a film 
writer. He has written several pictures, but he was primarily a 
playwright and a very brilliant one, and I think for a period before 
his testimony he had not worked in pictures. He has not worked a 
great deal in pictures since then because he, as I understand it, is 
engaged in writing a play. Leo McCarey was one of the so-called 
friendly witnesses. I think he has been busy every day since 



1854 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

those hearings, at a very large salary. He is employed. He is under 
contract, I believe, to Paramount Studios and has been for many 
years. Also, I think he also had a contract with RKO. Sam Wood, 
up to the time he died, was under contract, I believe, to UI and to 
Metro. Certainly he always was employed and always worked at a 
very high salary. Walt Disney, another friendly witness, owns his 
own studio. Gary Cooper was a friendly witness. Gary has worked 
as much as he wants to at a very high salary ; is working now ; has 
made many pictures since then. Adolphe Menjou — the same applies 
here. Mr. Menjou, for a while, worked for a few months; didn't 
work. He has lately been in a series of pictures. I think he has more 
work than he can accept. 

He is now, I believe, working at Metro, or finished at Metro. Jack 
Moffitt was one. Jack Moffitt, an excellent newspaperman, is con- 
ducting a column in the Herald Express. George Murphy was an- 
other friendly witness. He was under contract to MGM at the time. 
He is still under contract to MGM ; has been consistently throughout 
this time under contract to MGM. Ayn Rand. Now, Miss Rand 
was a novelist, not a film writer. She has worked and is continuing 
to work in films, and since those hearings. They did a story of hers 
at Warner Bros, recently called Fountainhead. Since then she has 
worked for Hal Wallis who makes pictures for Paramount. Rupert 
Hughes, another friendly witness, is not a film writer. He is a his- 
torian, a novelist. He hasn't written films for many years. Robert 
Taylor. Certainly Mr. Taylor has worked, I think, every week since 
that time. He has been under contract, at least. There is more money 
tied up or invested in this actor than in any actor in Hollywood. He 
has just made a very expensive picture called Quo Vadis. 

Fred Niblo, Jr., has worked since these hearings, another friendly 
witness. He worked for Eagle-Lion and RKO, Monogram, since 
those hearings. Ronald Reagan certainly has been very busy, as 
busy as he wants to be. He is president of the Screen Actors' Guild. 
Another friendly witness was Richard McCauley, who has worked at 
RKO since that time. Roy Brewer was a friendly witness, but he 
hardly fits in this category since he is a professional labor executive. 
James Kevin McGuinness — he worked for most of the time. He is 
dead now, but up to the time he died he, I think, had few periods of 
unemployment ; worked most of the time. 

Mr. Walter. Did these people resume the employment they had 
prior to their testifying in Washington 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes. 

Mr. Walter. Upon their return to Hollywood ? 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Walter. All right, proceed. 

Mr. Tunberg. Robert Montgomery did several pictures after his 
testimony. One was Ride a Pink Horse at Universal-International. 
He is now, by his own choice, working in the East on television and 
radio, I believe. Another friendly witness was Mrs. Lela Rogers. 
She was not — I don't believe she was a worker in the film industry 
but certainly her daughter has worked consistently since then. I 
thought in the interests of actors 

Mr. Walter. Well, have you given us the names of all of the wit- 
nesses who testified before this committee? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1855 

Mr. Tunberg. I believe that, is all the group that was mentioned 
in this one hearing, yes. I believe these are the so-called friendly 
witnesses. 

Mr. Walter. Anything further, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask this, Mr. Chairman. Will you tell me, please, 
what is the significance of this list, in your considered judgment? 

Mr. Walter. The witness has given us the names of all the witnesses 
who testified here before and their employment immediately after 
their testimony. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, it shows that the friendly witnesses who 
have cooperated with the committee have not been penalized or lost 
employment as a result thereof. 

Mr. Tunberg. Exactly. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Walter. Any questions, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Jackson. I have a couple. 

Mr. Tavenner. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. I have one more question. You have gone over the 
list of the friendly witnesses. What of the unfriendly witnesses? 
Do you have any knowledge of whether or not any material has been 
sold or, conversely, has been purchased from those witnesses who have 
refused to cooperate and answer the questions of this committee? 

Mr. Tunberg. I have no direct knowledge of it, no. I heard of 
rumors that some member — some of the unfriendly 10 have written 
scripts under other names which have been purchased unwittingly by 
studios. I have no proof of that. 

Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Tunberg, you have been very helpful, and I assure 
you that the entire committee appreciates your cooperation. 

Mr. Tunberg. Well, I appreciate your letting me come. 

Mr. Walter. More than that, I think you have given us some very 
fine evidence as to an effective way to combat the tactics employed in 
your meetings, the same tactics employed in labor unions and in meet- 
ings of other organizations, and it would seem to me that many people 
could learn a great deal from the very effective manner in which 
you have combatted this insidious movement. 

Mr. Tunberg. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I hope it will be of value. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I clarify one matter ? 

You made reference to Mr. McGuinness. 

Mr. Tunberg. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not Mr. McGuinness' 
contract had been bought up and that, actually, he had not been 
employed? 

Mr. Tunberg. I don't know that his contract had been bought up. 
He had left the employ of one studio, but I know that he had offers to 
work in other studios. He received one offer, to my knowledge, from 
Paramount after leaving the studio. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

Mr. Walter. Who is your next witness, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Sidney Buchman. 
Mr. Walter. Mr. Buchman. 

Mr. Siegel. Mr. Chairman, I am an attorney from New York City 
and I represent Mr. Buchman. As you probably know, Mr. Buchman 



1856 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

has not been well and I don't think he is fit to testify. However, I 
understand that this is the last day that this committee is in session. 
And Mr. Buchman, ill as he is, would like to have an opportunity 
to present his side of some of the matters you may be interested in. 
Mr. Walter. Mr. Buchman has been subpenaed and because of your 
representations as to his physical condition this committee had a 
United States Public Health physician examine your client. This 
physician has informed the committee that your client is in condition 
to testify ; and, more than that, your client's own doctor has told us the 
same thing. So I see no reason why Mr. Buchman shouldn't testify 
in accordance with the usual procedure. 

Mr. Siegel. May I take a moment, Mr. Chairman? He is here and 
of course he will testify if directed to do so. I simpty wanted to 
say this, that I was not trying to interpose my opinion in opposition 
to that of any doctor. 

Mr. Walter. If I understood you correctly, he requested that he 
be permitted to make a statement. 

Mr. Siegel. No, Mr. Chairman. I was simpfy saying that he does not 
appear to be fit to testify; however, I yield to medical opinion. I 
am not trying to oppose medical opinion by my own. If he is directed 
to testify may I make two requests, Mr. Chairman, in the interest of 
having him assist in the performance of his testimonial duty ? First, 
can he appear here without being televised, in order to take any stress 
or strain off of him; and, secondly, in connection with the effort to 
appear here I have spent a great deal of time with him during the 
past week trying to probe his memory, his recollection and soul with 
respect to the things that I think you may require some information 
from him. Therefore, it may be necessary, in order to perform his 
duty ; since he is not feeling too well, to look from time to time at 
notes which he has prepared and which I have helped him prepare. 

Mr. Walter. That's quite all right. I have no objection. 

Mr. Siegel. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Walter. If he requests that he not be televised, why, of course, 
the request will be complied with. 

Will you raise your right hand, please. Do you swear the testimony 
you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Buchman. I do. 

Mr. Walter. Sit down. 

Mr. Siegel. Will it also be all right to have whatever photographs- 
are taken, taken now so it won't interrupt the testimony ? 

TESTIMONY OF SIDNEY BUCHMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

R. LAWRENCE SIEGEL 

Mr. Buchman. Mr. Chairman, may I record my ■ 

Mr. Walter. Let's get rid of this performance. 

Yes, Mr. Buchman ? 

Mr. Buchman. Mr. Chairman, may I make the request that I not be 
televised, please ? 

Mr. Walter. Yes, sir. And your wishes will be complied with. 

From now on I request that the cameras, the television cameras,, 
be not trained on the witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Sidney Buchman ? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1857 

Mr. Buchman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Buchman? 

Mr. Buchman. I was born in Duluth, Minn., 1902. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now live ? 

Mr. Buchman. I now live in Hollywood. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Hollywood? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, in Hollywood and its vicinity for perhaps 
20 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation or profession? 

Mr. Buchman. By profession I am a writer who has been elevated 
from time to time to a writer-producer status. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly for the committee your educa- 
tional background and training ? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, I was reared in Duluth, Minn., finished gram- 
mar school and high school there in 1919, attended the University of 
Minnesota for 1 year. My family was then removed to New York. 
1 then completed my education at Columbia University, taking my 
bachelor of arts there in the class of 1923. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee, please, an outline 
of your work as a screen writer and as a producer during the past 
20 years that you have been in Hollywood ? 

Mr. Buchman. With the committee's permission, this is a long and 
complicated list, it involves in some cases my writing and in other cases 
my producing. If you don't mind 

Mr. Tavenner. May I make this suggestion? In asking that ques- 
tion I did not expect that you give every detail of your employment. 

Mr. Buchman. Oh, I see. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you desire to file that we would be very glad 
to have it filed as part of your testimony, but if you will just narrate 
your employment in as much a way as to give the committee a good 
understanding of the time of employment you have had, that will be 
sufficient. 

Mr. Buchman. When I first came to Hollywood in 1931, in the 
spring of 1931, I was employed by Paramount Pictures. The credits 
of any importance were Sign of the Cross, written by me in collab- 
oration for Cecil De Mille. Another picture called Thunder Below, 
I then transferred to RKO where I wrote an Ann Harding picture 
whose title I forget. Then approximately IT years ago I came to 
Columbia as a free-lance writer and wrote a picture called Whom the 
Gods Destroy; a picture starring Grace Moore called I Love You 
Always, or Love Me Forever. Then with Mr. La Cava in 1935, wrote 
a picture She Married Her Boss; a picture call the Music Goes 
'Round ; in 1936, a picture called Theodora Goes Wild ; then the King 
Steps Out; Adventure in Manhattan; in 1939, Mr. Smith Goes To 
Washington; in 1940, the Howards of Virginia, from the book by 
Elizabeth Paige called Tree of Liberty ; 1941, Here Comes Mr. Jordan,; 
1942, the Talk of the Town; 1944, a Song to Remember; Holiday; 
1938, She Married an Artist; in 1937 — this was the first time I had 
attempted or achieved a producer's status. I did not write the screen 
play. 

Then in 1945 a picture called Over 21, an adaptation of Ruth 
Gordon's stage play. Following that To the Ends of the Earth; 
then as my own screen play and production, the second of two Jolson 
pictures, called Jolson Sings Again. 



1858 COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Completed at the moment are pictures called Saturday's Hero, an 
adaptation of Millard Lampell's book called the Hero. 

Mr. Siegel. Mr. Tavenner, did you also ask for productions pro- 
duced under Mr. Buchman ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I would be very glad to have them. 

Mr. Buchman. Well, I have tried to make the difference as I went 
along, Mr. Tavenner. Maybe I didn't in each case. 

Mr. Tavenner. Which of the pictures did you also produce, which 
you have just given us? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, of the pictures I produced, my first one was 
Over 21, when I was elevated to a writer-producer status. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the approximate date ? 

Mr. Buchman. The date of that picture was 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the approximate time you became a director ? 

Mr. Buchman. No. I never was a director. I was a writer — — 

Mr. Tavenner. I beg your pardon, I mean a producer. 

Mr. Buchman. A producer. A writer-producer. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is the approximate time you became a 
producer? 

Mr. Buchman. That is correct. Under my production, again, it 
was To The Ends Of The Earth. I interrupted my own business to 
devote approximately 2 years to executive work in all departments of 
the picture, of the first Jolson story. Then as a producer again, a 
writer-producer I made the second of the Jolson pictures as a pro- 
ducer. I have done the same as a writer-producer for Saturday's 
Hero; for a small subject called The Harlem Globetrotters, the 
basketball team. It was a rather cheap picture that was tossed otf. 
And lately and lastly, and just completed, a picture called Boots 
Ma lone. 

Mr. Siegel. Mr. Tavenner, was it your purpose to have Mr. Buch- 
man also give you the names of the pictures produced under his 
guidance and while he was the assistant in charge of production at 
Columbia Pictures? 

Air. Tavenner. Do you have such a list prepared? 

Mr. Siegel. In order to assist the committee we have prepared such 
a list. 

Mr. Tavenner. I suggest that it be filed with the committee, unless 
you desire to give the names of those pictures. I think you have 
given us sufficient narration of your activities so that the committee 
understands about your background, training, and your work. 

Mr. Buchman. Some time in this account, Mr. Tavenner, it may be 
pertinent, I don't know, I cannot anticipate your questions, to speak 
of the pictures I did at the time I was executive assistant to Mr. 
Cohn from the period of 1942 — the end of 1942 to some time in 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is that picture? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, there are several. Would you like me to 
enumerate them? 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well, yes. 

Mr. Buchman. They were called — there was a picture called 
What a Woman, starring Rosalind Russell ; there was a picture called 
Cover Girl, produced by Arthur Schwartz and starring Rita Hay- 
worth ; there was a picture called Once Upon a Time, starring Gary 
Grant, produced by Mr. Louis Edelman ; there was a picture called 
Sahara, the producer-director of which was Zoltan Korda; there 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1859 

was a picture called Mr. Winkle Goes to War; there was a picture 
called Sbng to Remember, done, 1 believe, in 1943 or L94 ! ; a picture 
for which I had written the screen play some 6 or 7 years earlier. 
It was revived. There was a picture called Counter- Attack, of which 
again Mr. Zoltan Korda was the producer-director. There was a 
picture — and then the principal occupation of that time was the last 
of those works called The Jolson Story. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Prior to 1931, which was the date you came to* 
Hollywood, how were you employed and where? 

Mr. Buchman. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Prior to your arrival in Hollywood in 1931, when 
and where were you employed? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, I had never been actually — well, yes, there 
were short periods of employment. I traveled abroad after finish- 
ing college, remained abroad and lived for perhaps a year or a year 
and a half. When I returned, through the influence, I might say, 
of a relative, I was in the story department of Warner Bros, in the 
east, their eastern story department. 

Mr, Tavexxer, Where? 

Mr. BuCHMAN. In New York. 

Mr. Tavexxer. How long were you there? 

Mr. Buchman. Approximately a year, year and a half. 

I am trying not to say it immodestly — but I mean I am trying to 
say it modestly, that the work brought a recommendation of me to 
Mr. Mayer, Louis B. Mayer, who was traveling in the east, as a result 
of which Mr. Mayer employed me in Hollywood, brought me to Metro- 
Goldwyn-Mayer for a year term guaranteed, one of the usual 7-year 
contracts. I remained that year and, well, by mutual agreement we 
broke. I couldn't find my place in the studio. 

I then began to write plays. I began writing here. It resulted 
finally in the completion of three plays, two of which were produced 
on Broadway, the third was bought but not produced, at my election. 
One of them was called This One Man, which came into the Morosko 
Theater in the fall of 1930, and starring Paul Muni. 

It lasted several weeks. The second was a play called Storm Song, 
starring Frances Larrimer, which proved to be a dud and we closed 
it on the road in Washington. The third was called Acute Triangle. 
It was bought by the Frpman office, specifically by Chester Erskine, 
who had become the producer-director. And after two very difficult 
experiences I declined a third production because it entailed some 
rewriting. 

I might say that at the time my agent, by virtue of the previous plays, 
had offered me, or had secured for me a contract at Paramount Pic- 
tures. I decided to accept that contract and went to Hollywood. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. Buchman, during the course of the testimony 
during this hearing you have been identified by Mr. Martin Berkeley 
as having been a member of the Communist Party. Were you at any 
time a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Buchman. Yes, Mr. Tavenner; I was. I was a member of 
the Communist Party from the years — it is difficult for me to fix, but 
1 assume they are from the years 193S to approximately 1942 or 1943, 
whenever the advent of the organization known as the Communist 

81595 — 51— pt. 5 15 



1860 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Political Association. I can't fix the time exactly. And I was a 
member 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me assist your recollection there a moment. 
The Communist Political Association came into being in the latter part 
of 1944, or the early part of 1945. 

Mr. Buchman. And remained how long, please? 

Mr. Tavenner. About 1 year. 

Mr. Buchman. Well, that would have been my association with 
the Communist Political Association, until its dissolution. When 
that was, which could have been at the end of 1945 — I have no recol- 
lection, actually. 

Mr. Tavenner. Rather than the end of 1945, the Communist Poli- 
tical Association really disappeared shortly after the receipt of the 
Duclos letter, which was in May 1945. 

Mr. Buchman. Well, then my leaving corresponded — the way to 
fix it myself, my leaving corresponded with the appearance of the 
Duclos letter. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Buchman 

Mr. Buchman. Pardon me, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Buchman. Or shortly thereafter as the result of discussions on 
the subject. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Buchman, a person by the name of Carl Winter 
has been frequently mentioned in the course of the hearings on Holly- 
wood as a functionary of the Los Angeles County Communist Party. 
There has also been information received by the committee to the 
effect that he was in New York functioning as a member of the Com- 
munist Party prior to his coming to Hollywood. Were you acquainted 
with Carl Winter in New York? 

Mr. Siegel. May we take a second on that, please ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Buchman. I am sorry, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. I want you to have sufficient time. 

Mr. Buchman. Would you ask the question again, please? 

Mr. Tavenner. My question was whether or not you were ac- 
quainted with Carl Winter in New York. 

Mr. Buchman. No, I was not. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated you became a member of the Commu- 
nist Party in Hollywood in 1938. 

Mr. Buchman. Approximately, yes. I can't fix the time. It may 
have been '37 or '38, or sometime late '38 or late '37. I'm sorry, I 
can't fix it. I don't recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. I feel certain that you are acquainted with the 
objects of the committee in the conduct of this investigation. We 
are anxious to learn the extent of infiltration into the moving picture 
industry by members of the Communist Party. We are interested 
in knowing the aims and objectives of the Communist Party in Holly- 
wood, we are anxious to learn the methods by which it operated. 

So I would like for you to tell the committee, first the circum- 
stances which led up to your becoming a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Buchman. I can't 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1861 

Mr. Siegel. Mr. Tavenner, is this all right? In order to assisl in 
the conduct of this investigation and to make sure thai yon get the 
benefit of all of his thoughts and ideas on the subject, I have probed 
him to the fullest extent possible. We have jotted down some notes 
that I am wondering whether it will be all right for him to refer to. 

Mr. Water. It is entirely proper for him to refer to those notes, 
if they are his own notes. 

Mr. Siegel. Yes, they are. 

Mr. Walter. Of course, we don't expect you to put words in the 
witness' mouth. 

Mr. Buckman. I assure you, Mr. Chairman, that 

Mr. Walter. That has been done, you know. 

Mr. Siegel. Mr. Chairman, I am sure you will not find us doing 
anything of the sort. 

Mr. Walter. Proceed. 

Mr. Buchman. You asked under what circumstances, Mr. Taven- 
ner. Did you mean circumstances of conditions, my thinking, or the 
literal circumstances of how I came to be asked to join? 

Mr. Tavenner. I want to know what inducement the Communist 
PaiT/y gave to you to become a member of it and how it recruited you 
into the Communist Party. Those are the things I am chiefly con- 
cerned with. 

Mr. Buciiman. Ma}'' I say honestly, Mr. Tavenner, as a basis of 
perhaps many questions of this sort, that I am not a political theorist 
or political scientist, I don't believe that I ever cracked the work of 
the fundamental character on the subject. My entering the Com- 
munist Party was of an emotional character. 

If you don't mind, I would like to refer to these notes. 

I joined the party when the world was troubled bj^ fascism, the 
rising tide of fascism abroad. We in America were worried about 
many problems dealing with economic inequality and political inequal- 
ity. The Communist Party seemed to be the only political force, both 
concerned and willing, to take action to stop the threat of fascism 
abroad and to work for economic and political reform in this country. 
As I understood then, and the testimony of other witnesses before this 
hearing seems to bear it out, these factors were responsible for many 
other people joining the Communist Party. 

Another reason was ideological. I placed this ideological matter 
in a certain emotional context, what I could call perhaps an instinc- 
tive context. 

Communism seemed to be an ideal experiment in trying to achieve 
a state where all persons have greater democracy. I might add, like 
other persons here and elsewhere, I found myself concerned with the 
problem of increasing need for greater economic and political democ- 
racy for greater numbers of people. Dislocations of the First World 
War were evident all over and I was worried about the future for my 
cocitizens and myself. I was attracted to the philosophy, such as I 
knew of it, and idealism of communism, which at the time seemed to 
make a better way of life. 

I hope that answers your question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I noticed that you used the words, "which at the 
time seemed better." Did your study and understanding of principles 
of the Communist Party lead yon to come to any other conclusion 
at a later time? 



1862 COMMUNISM IN MOTION- PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Buchman. Well, it is obvious that it did, by the fact that in 
1945, after certain arrestment of the principles preceding the Duclos 
letter, it would appear that I made my decision following the Duclos 
letter, after an experience of some — what I have recounted as perhaps 
5 or 6 years within the party. I obviously came to a different con- 
clusion. 

Mr. Tavexxer. What conclusion did you come to ? 

Mr. Siegel. Mr. Chairman, may he refer to notes again ? 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mr. Siegel. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Buchman. The Duclos letter and resulting deposition of Brow- 
der, there came a sudden return on the part of the American Commu- 
nist Party to the ideology as it had carried it out, unsuccessfully carried 
out, as it had been attempted to be applied here. This ideology has 
already shown itself by its ejection by the American people and the 
condition of the Communist Party today, to be unworkable, very 
stupid and blind, and is unacceptable to the American mind. I felt 
that I could no longer understand or live with this position. 

Feeling this way, to stay in the party and have anything but perfect 
freedom of thought, quite apart from any ideological base, was un- 
acceptable to me. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did you ever make any public renunciation of the 
party and your membership until this moment ? 

Mr. Buchman. No, I never have. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Let us go back again now to the time when you first 
became a member. You stated your reasons for uniting with the 
Communist Party. How did you proceed to unite with the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Buchmax. You mean how my literal membership became ef- 
fected? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes. 

Mr. Buchmax. Well, it was not a recruitment as such. I heard Mr. 
Berkeley's testimony saying that Mrs. Buchman had recruited me. 
That is not true. 

There were a few close friends around me, some of whom may or 
may not have been Communists. Undoubtedly one or two of them 
were. The suggestion was made and the recruitment, rather than 
being, "Will you be a member of the Communist Party?" or take any 
oath of allegiance or anything, was merely a suggestion to enter a 
group to be further informed until I could make up my own mind. 
This was in, as I fix it, 1938. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Plow long did it take you to make up your mind? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, I would say, Mr. Tavenner, that from that 
time I don't recall a decision. I recall the fact that I entered a group, 
a very small group, who were personal friends. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room.) 

Mi-. Buchman. We had no teacher. We met and among ourselves 
discussed matters fundamental in Communist ideology, but very little 
of that. More than that it was a discussion of current affairs and the 
activities within the motion picture industry, or the mass organiza- 
tions at the time, their problems, financial and otherwise. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you also discuss and consider the matter of 
increasing the size of the Communist Party, that is the recruitment 
of other persons? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1863 

Mr. Buchman. Mr. Tavenner, I have no personal knowledge of that 
fact through the group with which I lived for a number of years. I 
can't deny, of course, that recruitment or the desire to have new mem- 
bers was prevalent, and there was obvious activity on that score. But 
I myself did not engage in it, nor recruit, nor to my knowledge did 
anyone else in my group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us more about this group. Did this group of 
yours have any special functions or duties ? 

Mr. Buchman. No, Mr. Tavenner, they didn't. They were a mot- 
ley group. I was a writer, someone else belonged — someone else was 
a musician, someone else was unemployed in the business as a free- 
lance writer, and that was the composition of it. All these people 
were known to me personally. 

Mr. Tavenner, please, may I consult ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Buchman. In answer to your question, Mr. Tavenner, my coun- 
sel recalls to me my notes about the group, which was principally 
that in 1938 or 1939 my studio work was of such a nature that my 
attendance at such group was very infrequent. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the designation for the group? 

Mr. Buchman. Mr. Tavenner, to the best of my knowledge it had 
no designation that I knew of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall ever having belonged to a group or 
cell in the Communist Party known as the "Y Group" — Y? 

Mr. Buchman. No, Mr. Tavenner, I'm sorry, I never have. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain in this first group to 
which you have referred? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, this first group remained the only group 
except it was amplified. I fix it — it was amplified by one or two other 
people or their wives. The occasions we met at the home of one or 
the other in that the occasions were as much social as political. I 
fix the attendance with such a group as from the time of my joining 
it, some time in 1938, to, I might say, 1940 or 1941. And thereafter I 
belonged to no other group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this a group that was rather set apart — excuse 
me. 

( The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Buchman. Yes, sir? I'm sorry, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mi-. Tavenner. Was this not a group which was rather set apart 
from other groups or cells of the Communist Party in that the mem- 
bers were persons who were out of town frequently, or who for one 
reason or another did not want their identity to become known by 
having attended meetings regularly? 

Mr. Buchman. Mr. Tavenner, I don't want to be humorous about 
this deliberately, but it is not true, because these people were residents 
of Hollywood. There was nothing secret about them. As to rumors, 
I have heard about my being a secret or concealed member, which I 
have heard said — I have heard it said by Communists — this is not true, 
because I would fix the character of the group as I would fix my own 
entry into the party, which was that it was, so to speak, on a voluntary 
basis. I mean that my participation in party politics — I say this 
very consciously and under oath — my participation in party politics 
was as limited as I describe. And, by the way, as limited as it was, 



1864 COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

when through later history in the party I associated myself with the 
ideas or public expression which could identify me with the Commu- 
nist Party, I dare say that the concealment amounted to this, that every 
member of the Communist Party would have said I was, and perhaps 
a few thousand people in Hollywood making this association would 
have said the same thing. 

I hope this answers your question. It is rather a roundabout thing. 

Mr. Siegel. May we take a second, please ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Buchman. If you don't want it, Mr. Chairman, I would like to 
go on 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me. What was your statement ? 

Mr. Buchman. If I feel I was in any difficulty, I feel I would like 
to ask for 

Mr. Siegel. He wanted to know whether he could add to his state- 
ment. Is that all right with you, Mr. Tavenner, in response to your 
question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; I have no objection. 

Mr. Buchman. No ; I would not like to. Thank you. 

Mr. TxVvenner. You are perfectly free to make any explanation in 
answering you desire. 

Mr. Buchman. No. I'm sorry. I thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, you made the statement that other members of 
the Communist Party had accused you of being a secret member of 
some character. When did that occur ? When were you charged with 
being a secret member ? 

Mr. Buchman. Will you excuse me? May I talk to counsel, please? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Buchman. Well, in answer to your question, Mr. Tavenner, all 
I intended to say and did say, I think, was that I had known or heard 
vaguely of such rumor. 

Mr. Tavenner. There was nothing vague about your statement. 
You said that you had been told by other members of the Communist 
Party — that they had said to you that you were a secret member. Now, 
I am asking you under what circumstances and when was that state- 
ment made to you. 

Mr. Buchman. No. If I made that statement, Mr. Tavenner, I 
would like to correct it. No one, to my best recollection, said "I hear 
that you are a concealed member of the Communist Party." I just 
know from rumor, that I can't fix, not said directly to me, that the 
habit is, you understand, Mr. Tavenner, to say about someone in this 
town, "Well, is he in," or something, you know, to which no one re- 
sponded, and from his activities the question could be asked. I did not 
mean to say — if I did, I would like to correct it — that no Communist 
to the best of my knowledge ever came to me and said, "Are you," or 
"We hear that you are a concealed member of the Communist Party." 
I never was. I repeat that my entry, or rather, my disappearance 
from general activities had no more explanation than the fact of my 
inability to be active through a great amount of studio work and re- 
sponsibility and, consequently, my infrequent attendance at any kind 
of meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting 
of any group, other than the one to which you were originally assigned ? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1865 

Mr. Buchman. I may have attended a large meeting during the 
time 1 was a member of the Screen Writers' Guild. I can very honest- 
ly fix in my mind but very vaguely two occasions. One could have 
been with the feeling — 1 had pretty good assurance that the people 
there w r ere Communists. The other was an enlarged meeting of what 
would be called the progressive caucus that included Communists, 
the few that I knew and could identify by their statements to me, 
and other liberal people in the Screen Writers' Guild, so that the 
entire group amounted to what could be called a progressive caucus. 
That might have numbered 50 or 75 people. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dmytryk, who testified in Washington during 
the course of our hearings, stated that on one occasion he met with- 
in a Communist Party group meeting at your home but that you 
were not present. Have you any explanation to make of that? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, may I consult a moment, please. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Buchman. Well, Mr. Tavenner, I would like to answer that 
statement very honestly. During the Communist Party period there 
were people in the valley — as a matter of fact, humorously enough, 
there was a shortage of tires and gas, so that people who lived closely 
could get together easier. However, these were friends of mine, and 
there was a meeting at my house. Mr. Dmytryk said that, but I would 
like to make an explanation of that meeting. I want to make a very, 
very honest explanation of that meeting. I was present at that meet- 
ing, Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dmytryk is in error. I don't recall whether 
Mrs. Buchman was there, but the point was that this Communist 
Party group, and this was the period — there was an attempt to form 
such a group. He said that Mr. Lawson brought him. That is in- 
correct. Mr. Lawson was not there that evening, not to the best of 
my recollection. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, was Mr. Lawson and Mr. Dmytryk there on 
any other evening? 

Mr. Buchman. Never. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Buchman. May I go on? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Buchman. I have a certain principle that I will recite when we 
come to it, but I just want to make the exceptions of that evening. 
This was not a group — I could only read from Mr. Dmytryk's testi- 
mony that he said something about a Davis group and a very select 
group, implying again that this was a concealed group. Well, tires 
and gas arc a pretty good explanation of that; also the fact that I was 
working some 12 to 15 hours a day at the studio, and I might tell you 
honestly that from 1942 until my break with the party in 1945, other 
than a period of 3 to 4 months when such a group met or tried to 
meet, I had no connection whatsoever with the party or any group. 

Since 11)42 I had not attended one. Pardon me. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Siegel. Mr. Chairman, at the end of this question can we take 
a recess for 2 minutes in deference to the witness? Will that be all 
right '. 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mr. Buchman. I should like to place on the record about this 
meeting. Mr. Tavenner. that a person was named there — two people 



1866 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

were named there, called Mr. and Mrs. George Corey. I haven't 
the faintest knowledge that Mr. and Mrs. George Corey were ever 
Communists or, by the way, intended to join a CPA group. I have 
read in the testimony, I think, that Mr. Dmytryk said that it wasn't 
intended that he come to my house: that he went some place else 
and was sent to my house. Mr. Corey was a man who worked witli 
me, and I knew him in the studio. He became, a very good friend. 
He is a very good writer. When he came to my — he was often at 
my house ; might have been there to meet me at dinner ; might have 
come to meet me after dinner — I might — there can be any one of 
several explanations for Mr. Corey's presence. He said, among 
other things, that a man named Francis Faragoh was a Communist. 
I have heard this said by someone else in the course of testimony. 

Mr. Tavenner. When? 

Mr. Buchman. I didn't hear it. I read it in the testimony. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the testimony ? 

Mr. Buchman. Of Meta Reis Rosenberg's testimony. I think she 
said that Francis Faragoh was a Communist. I have known Fran- 
cis Faragoh since the first time I came on the Screen Writers' Guild 
in 1939. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will ask you this question : Have you met 
any 

Mr. Walter. Let the witness finish. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, it is in connection with his statement about 
Faragoh. 

Mr. Walter. He is right in the middle of a sentence. Go ahead. 

Mr. Buchman. Mr. Faragoh, to the best of my knowledge and by 
statements from time to time — I can't place them exactly when or 
where, but I believe that Mr. Francis Faragoh is not a Communist 
and never has been. 

Mr. Walter. How do you spell his last name ? 

Mr. Buchman. F-a-r-a-g-o-h. 

Mi'. Tavenner. Did you at any time attend a Communist Party 
meeting at the home of Francis Faragoh? 

Mr. Bltchman. I can say with fair accuracy that I did not, to the 
best of my recollection. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you uncertain about it? 

Mi'. Buchman. Yes; 1 am uncertain about it because — well, if I 
ever did, I have no recollection of Francis Faragoh being there, 
himself. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you recall having attended a Communist 
Party meeting at his home, regardless of whether or not he was there? 

Mr. Buchman. You say, did 1 ever attend a Communist Party 
meeting when Mr. Faragoh was there? 

Mr. Tavenner. At his home. 

Mr-. Buchman. To the best of my memory, though I may have been 
at the Faragoh home — to the best of my memory I did not attend a 
Communist Party meeting at which Mr. Francis Faragoh was present. 

Mr. Walter. I think this will be a good time to take a 10-minute 
recess. The committee will stand in recess for 10 minutes. 

(Whereupon a short recess was taken.) 

Mr. Walter. The committee will lie in order. During the recess Mr. 
A. L. Wirin, a well-known attorney in California, filed with the 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1867 

committee suggestions and criticisms of the work of the committee, 
and let that be filed at this point. . 

Mr. Wirin. Will you state that it was for the American Civil Lib- 
erties Union. . ^. ., 

Mr. Walter. Yes. Mr. Wirin was speaking for the American Civil 
Liberties Union, and I assure you that this brief will be carefully con- 
sidered, because this committee is a subcommittee which has been 
engaged for the last year and a half in studying procedures with the 
hope that out of our studies will come suggestions that will prevent any 
criticism whatsoever from any source coming to our work. 

Mr. Wirin. I shall be very 'proud if I have helped in improving the 
procedures of this committee. 

Mr. Walter. Thank you, Mr. Wirin. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. Buchman, you stated in the earlier part of 
your testimony that it was the practice to meet in the homes of the 
various members of the group. 

Mr. Buchmax. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavexxer. How frequently did you meet? 

Mr. Buchmax. Well, I should say the normal procedure was to meet 
at least once a week, but I have already said that my attendance was 
much less frequent than that. 

Mr. Tavexxer. In whose homes did you meet? 

Mr. Buchmax. Well, Mr. Chairman, may I refer again to my notes, 
if you don't mind ? 

Mr. Walter. Yes, indeed. 

Mr. Buchmax. Mr. Tavenner, I would like to answer and explain 
this and some other questions. Most respectfully, I must decline to 
answer the question. There are several grounds. First, as to the 
person or persons involved. These persons, like others you may ask 
nif about, never, to my knowledge, planned or committed or suggested 
an illegal act. Secondly, the names of such a person or persons already 
have been made public by you and I therefore, do not see how it will 
aid you if I repeat it. If this person or any person who may not have 
been mentioned by this committee is ever accused of subversion or 
any even comes to my attention linking this person to such an act, 
and if I have any knowledge which may be of interest to the authorities 
1 will bring it to their attention. Thirdly, it is repugnant to an Ameri- 
can to inform upon his fellow citizens. I refer you on that score to 
what Congressman Doyle said only yesterday in the interrogating of 
a witness when he explained that he wanted information only about 
the witness and did not want him to be a tattletale or snitcher. I 
realize my position may doom a career which has taken 20 years to 
build, but I have to take that risk. 

If I may. I want to suggest, however, that it seems to me that the 
important thing in this investigation of subversion is that I, myself, 
love America ; that I will defend it with my life against any foe, Rus- 
sia or otherwise, if my country is ever at war, and that never for a 
second have I ever felt otherwise. 

Mr. Tavexner. Now, do you consider that you were a member of an 
organization which was part of a Nation-wide conspiracy? 

Mr. Buchmax. Well, Mr. Tavenner, on questions like that, at the 
time I belonged to such an organization I was and I still am faithful 
to the Constitution of the United States. I have always been opposed 
to illegal changes of our Government or the overthrow of its institu- 

81595 — 51 — pt. 5 16 



1868 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

tions, whether by force or other illegal means. I have always believed 
in the democratic processes. If I had ever seen or heard any evidence 
or intimation of a plan or design or an intention to overthrow our 
Government whether by Communists or others, I would have taken it 
to the police, the district attorney, or the Federal authorities. 

Mr. Tavenner. Xow. will you please answer my question ? 

Mr. Buchman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you read the question to him? 

(The question was read as follows: ''Xow, do you consider that 
you were a member of an organization which was part of a Nation- 
v\ ide conspiracy?" 

Mr. Buchman. No, I do not. Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you now believe that you were? 

Mr. Buchman. No. May I pause for a moment, please, to consult 
with my counsel? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

[Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Siegel. Sir, will you read the question ? 

(The question was read as follows: "Do you now believe that you 
were?") 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Buchman. Well, Mr. Tavenner, in the course of thinking about 
this subject which is, of course, the burden of the whole testimony, I 
am aware of the decisions, both the majority and minority decisions, 
of the Supreme Court on the Smith Act case, and I respect the wisdom 
and authority of the court. I am also aware of the fact that there are 
here persons who hold the contrary view. I can only speak of my 
own knowledge. I never saw anything subversive and, therefore, 
cannot state in all honesty that I now think I belonged to a subversive 
organization. 

Mr. Siegel. May we take a moment, sir? May we? 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. 

Mr. Siegel. Thank you. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Buchman. Yes, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. The Congress of the United States, after 10 years 
of investigation through various committees, by enactment of both 
the House and the Senate, made certain findings of fact. Among 
them were these, that there exists a world Communist movement 
which, in its origin, its development, and its present practice, is a 
world-wide revolutionary movement, whose purpose is, itself, by 
treachery, deceit, infiltration into other groups, governmental and 
otherwise, espionage, sabotage, terrorism, and any other means deemed 
necessary to establish a Communist, totalitarian dictatorship in the 
countries throughout the world, through the medium of a world- 
wide Communist organization. 

Mr. Siegel. Are you referring to the McCarran Act, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am referring to the findings by Congress 

Mr. Siegel. In the McCarran Ad \ 

Mr. Tavenner. Which is in the preamble to the McCarran Act. 

Mi". Walter. Internal security. 

Mr. Siegel. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Internal Security Act. 



COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1869 

Do you disagree with the findings of the Congress on that subject? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, Mr. Tavenner, 1 must say honestly that I, 

as a person, am not in possession of the information which caused this 

statement. 1 will respect the findings of that committee or, rather, 

the body that made that statement. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then if you respect that finding by the Congress 
of the United States, arrived at after 10 years of investigation, and 
you feel that you are not in a position to dispute it, then will you not 
agree that it is important and necessary for this committee to know the 
names of those who are members of a world-wide Communist organ- 
ization, or any branch of it '. 

Mr. Buchman. Mr. Tavenner, I think I have answered that by say- 
ing that as a witness here, even respecting the statement that was made 
in that preamble, that according to my own knowledge of the people 
I associated with, I cannot say from any theoretical statement I heard 
or any act in practice that that was true, and I said that if it should 
come to my attention, if the facts caused such people to be prosecuted 
for acts that I have no knowledge of, that I would be very willing to 
report such action and, therefore, I stand on my previous statement. 
Mr. Tavenner. But you will not, I understand, cooperate with this 
committee in giving it possession of information within your knowl- 
edge relating to the extent of Communist infiltration into the moving- 
picture industry I Is that the position you are taking? 
Mr. Buchman. May I have a moment, please? 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Buchman. Well, Mr. Tavenner, as to this question, I, with 
respect to the preamble and assembled facts, do make such a state- 
ment. I assume they are responsible people. I have searched my 
memory, my best feelings on this subject; I have considered, and 
without desiring or intending in any way to be contumacious or dis- 
respectful, I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. That ground is that not to do so might tend to in- 
criminate you? You are not taking that position, are you? 
Mr. Buchman. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. We have heard it so frequently that I want to make 
certain. 

Mr. Buchman. Yes; I have heard of it, Mr. Tavenner. I am not 
taking that position. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now will you tell us the names of those who were 
members of this group with you, the group to which you were as- 
signed and which which you were connected, that is those who came 
into the group as well as those who were in it originally from the 
period of 1938 to 1945, when you state you withdrew from the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Buchman. Mr. Tavenner, I hold to my position with a very 
sincere feeling, that I cannot violate certain freedom of conscience. I 
hold my position. 

Mr. Tavenner. The commitee is in possession, Mr. Buchman, of 
information indicating that Alexander Stevens, otherwise known as 
J. Peters, came to Hollywood. As I referred the question to a witness 
the other day, or several days ago, he may have met with members of 
the Communist Party in the home of one or more of the persons who 
were in your group. Will you tell the committee whether to your 



1870 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

knowledge this J. Peters met in the home of any member of your 
group ? 

Mr. Buchman. Mr. Tavenner, to the best of my knowledge and 
memory I do not know a man by the name of Mr. J. Peters. If you 
can present any evidence to refresh my memory, I would like it to be 
on the record. 

Mr. Tavenner. He was also known by the name of Alexander Gold- 
berger. Does that assist your recollection ? 

Mr. Buchman. No ; it does not. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have already stated ,also, the name of Alexander 
Stevens, that he was known by that name. 

Mr. Buchman. No; I do not recollect an Alexander Stevens. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give to the committee the names of the 
members of this group — I will ask you again — who were members of 
the Communist Party, and state whether or not a person by the 
name of J. Peters, under any of the aliases, as I have mentioned, was 
ever known to you to have been in their homes, any of them? 

Mr. Buchman. Mr. Tavenner, I hold to my position on the question 
of names and people, and beyond that I have no recollection of the at- 
tendance by this Mr. Peters at any kind of function in the home of 
any person where I also attended. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think the witness should be di- 
rected to answer the question, because he has not based his declination 
on any recognized constitutional provision. 

Mr. Walter. Of course, that's true. However, as I understand the 
witness' testimony, he says he has no recollection of having attended 
a meeting anywhere with J. Peters, under that name or any of his 
aliases. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you will let me put the question again. 

Mr. Walter. Yes, put the question again. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you please give us the names of all the per- 
sons who were members of the Communist Party cell to which you 
were assigned ? That is my question. 

Mr. Buchman. I decline to answer — to give such names. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Buchman. On the grounds I originally stated. 

Mr. Walter. What are those grounds, please, Mr. Buchman? 

Mr. Buchman. I would have to reread them, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. Yes, repeat them, because I want to be quite certain of 
what they were. 

Mr. Buchman. I said that most respectfully I must decline to an- 
swer the question. There are several grounds. First, as to the per- 
son or persons involved. These persons, like others you may ask 
me about, never, to my knowledge, planned or committed or sug- 
gested an illegal act. Secondly, the names of such a person or 
persons already have been made public by you, and I, therefore, do not 
see how it will aid you if I repeat it. 

Mr. Walter. That is why I ask you to repeat the reason because 
we didn't make public any names at all. The names that were 
made public came from the lips of witnesses. 

Mr. Buchman. Well, then I will correct that, Mr. Chairman, to 
say, such names as were mentioned here as having been members of 
the Communist Party. 

May I continue? 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1871 

Mr. Walter. That is sufficient. I just want to get that straight in 
my mind. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask that the witness be directed to 
answer the question so that it may not be accepted as though we were 
agreeing with his refusal to answer on the grounds that he has stated. 

Mr. Walter. Yes, the witness will answer the question. 

Mr. Buchman. I respectfully decline, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the appearance in the homes of any 
persons who were members of the cell with you, or in your own home 
for that matter, of a person from New York who was a member of 
the Communist Party and arrived there for the purpose of discussing 
the raising of funds throughout the moving picture industry, or 
through the Communist members in the moving picture industry? 

Mr. Buchman. I beg your pardon. Do I know of such a man \ 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I say : Do you recall the appearance at one 
of those meetings of a person from New York who appeared there 
for the purpose of discussing the raising of funds? 

Mr. Buchman. No, sir; I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated in the earlier part of your testimony 
that there were rumors to the effect that you were a secret member of 
the Communist Party. Did your employer ever confer with you re- 
garding that rumor, or do you know whether or not he knew of the 
existence of that rumor ? 

Mr. Buchman. I don't think he did ; no. 

Mr. Siegel. When you say "employer," will you please tell us who 
you are referring to? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am referring to the person between 1942 and 1944, 
which I think is Mr. Cohn, according to your testimony. 

Mr. Buchman. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. As to whom you were his assistant. 

^li'. Buchman. That is correct. 

Mr. Siegel. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question at this time? Is 
the same injunction with respect to television in force and effect? If 
it isn't, I appeal to you to have it so. 

Mr. AValter. Oh, yes ; it is. 

Mr. Siegel. Thank you. 

Mr. Buchman. I am sorry, Mr. Tavenner. No, he did not know of 
such a thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you tell him you were a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Buchman. No ; I never did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why didn't you? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, Mr. Tavenner, I would like to answer that in 
my own way. If I were to be a member of the Communist Party to- 
morrow in Hollywood I think I would take a page ad in the trade 
paper announcing that I was. And I consider that the fact that one 
didn't say so, or didn't care to have^it known was a mistake and was 
stupid. I asked on many occasions w T hy that wasn't so and I never 
received a satisfactory answer, except to say that it was rather un- 
popular and might militate against getting employment, perhaps, if 
someone didn't agree with the philosophy. That is the only explana- 
tion I have ever had. 



1872 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

I make the explanation, because to say that one didn't is to give it a 
conspiratorial air that I have always resented, and resent today, as 
being, if not subversive, dishonest in the American mind. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yet you did not make that fact known until today? 

Mr. Buchmax*. That is correct. 

Mr. Siegel. May we have a moment, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavexner. Yes, sir. 

( Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Buchmax'.' Mr. Tavenner, I am advised 

Mr. Walter. The committee will be in order, please. 

Mr. Buchmax. I am advised that these legalities are confusing, 
that I used a phrase, "If I were to become." I would like for the 
record to supplement that by saying, it isn't possible because I 
repudiated communism as a philosophy for myself. 

Mr. Tavenxer. When did you repudiate it as a philosophy? 

Mr. Buchman. In 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't your repudiation born out of the injustice 
that you thought was brought about by the Duclos letter rather than 
any. difference in your views regarding the principles of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Buchmax. No. I would say that it came about through the 
Duclos letter and the repudiation of communism or the philosophy as 
applicable to our way of life, to the American way of life. 

Mr. Tavenx t er. Did your repudiation become complete at that 
time, 1945 ? 

Mr. Buchmax. I considered it so ; yes. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did you notify the Communist Party of your 
intention to withdraw from it? 

Mr. Buciiman. No. Since I had originally not signified by direct 
statement or any allegiance to the party, or any signed document, and 
since I considered my membership voluntary, when I left or expressed 
myself within the group as to the Duclos letter, this was in effect 
considered a repudiation and a retirement from party activities. 

Mr. Tavexxer. When did you last pay dues to the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Buchmax. Well, Mr. Tavenner, I have no recollection of pay- 
ing dues as such, or carrying a party book. Perhaps members in my 
group did. I am not conscious of a registration as such. My dues 
were in the form of requests for money when needed, and I gave it. 
I did not pay regular dues. 

Mr. Tavex t ner. Did you pay assessments of any character? 

Mr. Buciiman. No. What I have said applies also to assessments. 

Mr. Tavexner. What dues or assessments did you pay? 

Mr. Buciiman. Well, as far as I can remember — I said, Mr. Tav- 
enner, that from 19 — late 1911 to 1912, sometime in 1911 and up 
through, well, from then on, which takes us back some 10 or 12 years, 
other than the short period which I have called the matter of 3 or 1 
months in the CPA group, I have no recollection of — your question 
was what, please, exactly ? I'm sorry, I lost it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I asked you to tell us what Communist 
Party dues or assessments you paid. 

Mr. Buchman. Well, therefore, going back some 10 years or so, 
I am not conscious of paying dues and assessments, that is to say, I 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1873 

have read or heard that— that is. read in testimony that members of 
a group Mere assessed a certain amount of their salaries. 1 never did 
that particularly, not that I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. What contributions did yon make to the party? 

Mr. Buciimax. Well, when I was asked — that is when 1 consid- 
ered in anticipation of this testimony, what money 1 paid. I would 
say that roughly from the time I entered, which was 1938, to practi- 
cally disappearance from the party activities in 1942, I would place 
the entire amount, consisting of requests for money from the party 
itself, some member of the party in Hollywood, contributions to such 
things as the Daily Worker — I beg your pardon, I didn't mean Daily 
Worker. I don't know the Daily Worker; nobody ever asked me 
about, the Daily Worker. I mean* the People's World, which was an 
institution on the west coast here. 

Mr. Tavenner. Similar to the Daily Worker on the east coast. 

Mr. Buchman. Well, all right: 1 will agree, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Walter. The Pacific coast edition of the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Buchman. So Daily Worker, People's World, New Masses. 
any party publication, a request for money through a mass organiza- 
tion. First of all by a contribution, dues, when they were in trouble, 
and always were about money, and how to pay secretarial fees; some- 
times they were loans, and most times such loans were returned to me. 
I am speaking of* amounts, Mr. Tavenner, of $100, $20Q — a sum of 
four or five hundred would have been a tremendous amount of money. 
And I now come back to a total. I said that, in reviewing all those 
years, sincerely I would fix the amount of all such contributions, dues, 
loans, as an amount not in excess of $5,000. 

Mr. Tavenner. Over what period of time % 

Mr. Buchman. I said over a period of time from 1938 to approx- 
imately 1942. 

Mr.'SiEGEL. Mr. Tavenner. he means a total of $5,000. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand. 

What have you paid for the same purpose after 1942? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, the requests after 1942, I would say that to 
the best of my recollection I paid no special amount to the party itself, 
nor was I asked for any, but that the requests continued for the work 
in mass organizations, in the west coast edition of the Daily Worker, 
of, for instance, New Masses. I don't recall his name, but someone 
came out during those years, which were the war years, when things 
were fine, and made a request, for instance, for New Masses. He was 
here to collect money for the New Masses. On that occasion, as I re- 
call, I may have given him $50. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the date? 

Mr. Buchman. It could have been some time in 1942 or 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you made any donations of any character 
for the support of the New Masses or the People's World since 1945? 

Mr. Buchman. Not to the best of my memory. I am sure not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall attending any art benefits for the 
New Masses since 1945 ? 

Mr. Buchman. No, sir. I am positive I have not. 

Mr. Tavenner. You referred to the fact a little while ago that while 
a member of the Screen Writers' Guild you attended meetings of the 
Communist Party. Did you refer to a meeting of a fraction of the 
Screen Writers' Guild? 



1874 COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Buchmax. As it has been known here, yes, sir; of men who I 
imagine all of them members of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, I would fix such meetings as having occurred 
in 1940 and 1941. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the purpose for the holding of the 
fraction meeting? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, I am sorry to be verbose about these questions, 
Mr. Tavenner. You see, as far as the Screen Writers' Guild was 
concerned, which I was principally occupied with, the purpose of 
any fraction meeting was to consider the issues in the guild itself, 
principally to discuss the question never settled, either in such a 
fraction — -are you having difficulty hearing me? 

Mr. Tavenner. A little; yes. 

Mr. Buchman. I'm sorry. The principal — there was no theoretical 
or political discussion ; nobody attempted that in such a meeting. The 
preoccupation, as far as I recall, of two or three or four such meetings 
that I ever attended had to do with a question which bothered not 
only us but the entire Screen Writers' Guild body, and that was : Is 
the Screen Writers' Guild — or was the Screen Writers' Guild— a 
trade-union, or was it a guild of independent contractors? There is 
a difference about that, because in the philosophy, or in the theory 
of our group — by the way, in which I agreed to a certain extent, 
except as to how to carry it out, which I later found was impossible — 
the point was 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you an official of the Screen Writers' Guild 
at the time ? 

Mr. Buchman. I think, if I recall, I was elected to the board in 
1940. I think in the term of 1940 to 1941 I was vice president of the 
guild, and from 1941 to 1942 I was president of the Screen Writers' 
Guild. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were the members of the fraction who at- 
tended the meeting with you? 

Mr. Buchman. I decline to answer on the previously stated 
grounds, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask the chairman to direct the witness to 
answer. 

Mr. Walter. Yes; the witness is directed to answer the question 
just propounded. 

Mr. Buchman. Mr. Chairman, I must respectfully decline. 

Mr. Walter. When you say, "I must,'' you mean you do? 

Mr. Buchman. I do ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were von a member of the Screen Writers' 
Guild? 

Mr. Buchman. From 1933 to 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what other activities did the Communist Party 
engage, or rather in what other instances did the Communist Party 
engage in an effort to influence the activities of the Screen Writers' 
Guild besides the instance you suggested? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, as far as I can recall, Mr. Tavenner, on the 
subject of trade-unions, perhaps the most important issue evolving 
out of that was our — an occasion of strike action within the com- 
munity, as, for instance, in 1941. I think at the end of 1941, during 
my vice presidency, the question being whether the guild shall sup- 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1875 

port the Walt Disney strike, which was occurring at the time. The 
other question was that as a guild, not being just an independent con- 
tractor, should the guild engage in any political activities, adopt any 
political platforms, take on any causes, and so forth, and express itself 
as a guild, whose survival depended upon its identification with the 
forces around it — with the social forces around it. The strike is one 
occasion that I recall. I'm very sorry, but it is an outstanding in- 
stance because I had to chair a meeting of some 500 people, and felt 
almost as badly as I did coming here toda3 r . I don't recall other 
issues, Mr. Tavenner, sufficiently to speak of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Screen Writers' Guild 
at the time that the Hollywood Writers' Mobilization endeavored to 
extend its life and existence after the war? 

Mr. Buchman. No; sir; I was not. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you cease to become a member of the 
guild ? 

Mr. Buchman. In the fall of of 1942 when I assumed my duties 
under Mr. Cohn. 

Mr. Tavenner. Under whom ? 

Mr. Buchman. Under Mr. Harry Cohn at Columbia Pictures. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I find that on July 26, 194-1, you were a can- 
didate for the office of a member of the executive board of the Screen 
Writers' Guild. 

Mr. Buchman. That could not be accurate, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then I hand you a photostatic copy of a ballot 
dated July 26, 1941. My attention is drawn to the fact that it is not 
the Screen Writers' Guild but that it is the Hollywood Democratic 
Committee. 

Mr. Siegel. Will you then rephrase the question, please ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I will ask you several questions about your mem- 
bership in that organization. When did you become a member of 
the Hollywood Democratic Committee? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, I could only affix it by this accidental refer- 
ence, Mr. Tavenner. I don't remember. It must have been in 1943 
or 1944. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you continue your membership in it? 

Mr. Buchman. I don't recall that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold any position in that organization? 

Mr. Buchman. Not that I recall ; no, sir. I never recall attending 
a meeting of that organization. It may have been some large public 
function that I attended, but no board meeting or special meeting. Not 
that I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. That organization was changed. The name of it 
was changed to the Independent Citizens' Committee of the Arts, 
Sciences and Professions in June 1945. Do you recall that? 

Mr. Buchman. Yes; I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become an official of the new organization? 

Mr. Buchman. I doubt whether I became an official, unless you can 
refresh my memory. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have before me a newspaper clipping from the 
People's World of June 11, 1945, the heading of which is "Hollywood 
Democrats Choose a New Name. The Hollywood Democratic Com- 
mittee went into an eclipse last Wednesday evening and merged a few 



1876 COMMUNISM IX MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

minutes later as the Hollywood Citizens' Committee of the Arts, 
Sciences, and Professions.'' Then the names of the new officers are 
given, and the names of other persons appear there, including yours, 
Sidney Buchman. You did continue your membership in that organi- 
zation, did you not ? 

Mr. Buchman. I believe I did. May I see that exhibit, please. Mr. 
Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Did you become an officer in it at any time? 

Mr. Buchman. I don't recall ever having become an officer in it or 
ever attending meetings beyond the meeting at which it was formed. 

Mr. Tayexner. The article does not state that you were an officer. 

Mr. Siegel. May we look at it for a moment, please? 

Mr. Tayexner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Siegel. Thank you. 

Mr. Buchman. It does not say that I am an officer, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. No. I stated that. 

Mr. Buciimax. It lists me as one of perhaps 100 or 150 members 
at its formation. 

Mr. Siegel. Mr. Tavenner. it doesn't even do that. It describes a 
list of officers 

Mr. Tavenner. I know exactly what it says. 

Mr. Siegel. Then it has a list of names without any description 
whatsoever. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; and I understand the witness has said that he 
was a member. 

Mr. Buchman. That's correct. 

Mr. Tayenx'er. How long did you remain a member? 

Mr. Buchmax. Mr. Tavenner, I honestly and frankly cannot tell 
you. 

Mr. Tayex t ner. I believe you took a trip to Russia, didn't you? 

Mr. Buchman. Yes, sir; I did. 

Mr. Tayenxer. That was in 1935 ? 

Mr. Buchman. That's correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did that trip to Russia have anything to do with 
your joining the Communist Party in 1938? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, I doubt whether it had anything to do with 
it. A description of the trip, I think, would convince you. 

Mr. Tayexner. During the period that you were a member of the 
Communist Party you were in the position, if you chose to do it, to 
favor in the moving-picture industry those whom you knew to be 
members of the Communist Party; is that correct? 

Mr. Buchman. That would be correct; yes; I presume. 

Mr. Tayenner. Yes. Did you favor any person known to you to be 
a member of the Communist Party 

Mr. Buchman. Mr. Tavenner 

Mr. Tavenner. In connection with your duties as a producer? 

Mr. Buchman. Yes. I don't want to make a speech about this. 
I will just say emphatically never, and there is no proof of such a 
Pact. The standards for judging anyone hired were standards of 
professional competence. As a mater of fact, Mr. Tavenner. I would 
like the record to show, which is the truth, that when I took that job 
as assistant to Mr. Colin, a writer contract, which had originated in 
li>37, remained in force through this so-called executiveship. I 
desired it so because I did not want the job, and Mr. Cohn offered me 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1877 

an executive position with titles and executive favor and a rewritten 
contract, and I refused it because I did not want t lie job. That work, 
from 1!>4'_! until I left it some time in l ( .»4o. consisted of a lot of execu- 
tive authority, it's true, but every bit of it — the selection of a piece 
of material, the hiring of a writer, the checking on that material — 
every bit of it was in the hands of Mr. Harry Cohn, and there was no 
occasion — if you were to know Mr. Colin — when he would neglect his 
responsibility in his company. He is a man who works about 23 
hours a day in his job, and there are no incidents, Mr. Tavenner, where, 
in that position, the confidence placed in me by Mr. Cohn was ever 
abused, nor did I ever make a choice on any occasion of a piece of 
material, the selection of a writer, or an actor, of a cameraman, of 
a star, that in any way demonstrates that I ever did. If anyone had 
ever come to me in my position to suggest that I do this, I would have 
thrown him out. I would be very proud to exhibit for the record, 
which I have compiled on all the pictures over which I had authority, 
even those that I produced independently where you might assume 
that I would have more authority as Mr. Cohn's assistant, although 
let me say in passing that, even as an independent producer, in my 
contract Mr. Cohn held all the artistic controls to the choice of mate- 
rial, the finished screen play, the material on the screen finally, the 
final editing of that picture ; and he was consulted at every step. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now*, let me ask you this question : You having pro- 
gressed to the point where you are now a producer and having the view 
which you state you now have regarding the Communist Party, would 
you put a person known to you to be a member of the Communist 
Party in the same position which you held from 1942 to 1945 ? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, that is a difficult question. May I pause a 
moment, Mr. Tavenner, if you don't mind ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. Consult your attorney. 

Mr. Buchman. Thank you. 

Mr. Siegel. Do you have any objection \ 

Mr. Tavenner. Xone in the world, or I would have expressed it 
long ago. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Siegel. Would you read the question. 

(The question was read, as follows:) 

Now. let me ask you this question: You having progressed to the point where 
you are now a producer and having the view winch you state you now have 
regarding the Communist Party, would you put a person known to you to be a 
member of the Communist Party in the same position which you held from 1942 
to 1945? 

Mr. Buchman. Well, that is a tough one, Mr. Tavenner. As far as 
I am concerned, in my performance of my work, I can only refer you 
to Mr. Cohn who might say off the record — well, while I don't agree 
with him, maybe, give me some more Communists. 

Air. Tavenner. We assumed Mr. Cohn trusted you. 

Mr. Buchman. Yes, but 

Mr. Tavenner. But I am asking you now, with the knowledge that 
you have, would you knowingly put a person in charge of the admin- 
istrative duties such as you had or, I might add, in the position that 
you now hold as a producer if they were a member of the Communist 
Party \ 



1878 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. Buchjiax. Yes. Well, I would first consider certain profes- 
sional competence, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Certain what'? 

Mr. Buchman. Professional competence. This would interest me 
first. After that, as to his views, this troubled subject of whether he 
is a subversive man and a dangerous man — ■ — 

Mr. Tavenner. You would ask him? 

Mr. Buchman. Or has committed an illegal act, I would wonder 
about it, but I think in view of public opinion and my feelings today, 
1 would say, therefore, that I would not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Thank you. That is all. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Doyle, any questions ? 

Mr. Doyle. One question. Mr. Buchman, I wrote this down sub- 
stantially as I thought you gave it: "I repudiated communism as a 
philosophy for myself. I consider the philosophy of the Com- 
munist Party as not applicable to our American way of life." Do 
you remember volunteering that statement? 

Mr. Buchman. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Doyle. In substance ? 

Mr. Buchman. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Doyle. Now, what was there in the philosophy of the Com- 
munist Party, as you knew it, that made you construe that it was 
not applicable to the American way of life? What was there incon- 
sistent, what was there destructive of our American way of life, if 
anything, that made you repudiate? 

Mr. Buchman. Pardon me, will you, please, Mr. Doyle, just a 
moment ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes, indeed. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Buchman. Well, Mr. Doyle, I'm sorry to keep you, but it is a 
rather tangled subject that, in effect, explains my entry into the 
Communist Party and my reason for leaving it. I made a statement 
that when I left after the Duclos letter when Mr. Browder first talked 
about a great get-together in collaboration, and the rules were off, 
when the party, after flagellating itself — by the way, I would like 
to say in passing, it was a rather stupid thing to have happened to 
an American party and it touches on the fact of world conspiracy, 
too, on several occasions — in other words, whether Moscow delivered 
express orders for any action to the Communist Party or whether 
working from the ideology, itself, whether the leaders tried to make 
their own decisions, but I have said that my experience had been a 
personal one and, to my knowledge, there had been a lack of free- 
dom of thought, a restriction, a certain rigidity in applying rules, 
in applying certain social rules. 

I don't like to take your time, but it is a subject 

Mr. Doyle. Go ahead. 

Mr. Buchman. It is a subject that I have tried to think through 
very thoroughly. It touches on the whole matter of treason and 
the states of mind of such people as I know and it also accounts for 
myself. 

Mr. Doyle. That is why I asked you that. I felt that you must 
have recognized there was an inconsistency as far as you, sir, were 
concerned 

Mr. Buchman. That is correct. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1879 

Mr. Doyle. In being a Communist and an American at the same 
time. 

Mr. Buchman. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. That is why I asked you that, I think, very pertinent 
question, although it is personal to you. 

Mr. Buchman. Well, perhaps I haven't answered it yet, Mr. Doyle. 
Have I ? 

Mr. Doyle. I am asking for you, sir — for I think that your answer 

might help many people 

Mr. Buchman. Well, Mr. Doyle, I will attempt to answer, because 
1 have tossed for about 2 or 3 days — the reason I have done what 
sounds like pleading illness — why it is so is that I haven't slept in many, 
many nights, and barbiturates — I was under that influence this morn- 
ing when the doctor came, because I just tried to get an hour's sleep, 
and I have tossed with this question, because I have no glib answers 
and I want to be honest about it. I have to start from beginnings on 
this question. To begin with, the Marxist philosophy, as much as I 
know of it, and I said before, and it is true, that I have no theoretical 
knowledge — this is all gathered emotionally by me — always has been — 
is a perfect state is desired. 

Well, under the American Constitution, and to quote Lincoln in a 
statement that these institutions belong to the people and they can 
change them, alter them to any degree they like if they do it peacefully 
if the majority are convinced of the decision, the majority, under a 
hundred years or 200 years of development in this country may eventu- 
ally ballot a condition that would resemble what is the ideal of social- 
ism. This is not, I don't think, too idealistic. As a matter of fact, I 
have seen the face of this country change in 25 years or 30 years. I 
have seen an equalization begin to develop; in inheritance laws, tax 
laws, laws for favoring trade-unions, protecting them, and so forth. 
All these are social changes. I said, I think, in a disputed picture 
called Mr. Smith [Mr. Smith Goes To Washington] that a democracy, 
when you find it, is not perfect. He complained of some dishonesty in 
the Senate at the time. He did it as a caricature at the moment, but 
he said that democracy does not stand still. If the condition of Govern- 
ment stands still, it just makes no sense and must die, so, therefore, the 
improvement within that democracy must be the greater and greater 
equalization of rights and opportunities to the people as those people 
grow up. 

For instance, the underprivileged people, the trade-union — the union 
fight for many, many years in this country has advanced from 189:2, 
when men fought to reduce a 12-hour or 14-hour day, to the present 
condition. This has happened in 50 years in our country. Anyone who 
assumes that this country is standing still is not a good American, or 
rather, he is an apathetic and dead one and makes no contribution to 
the society. I am, by nature, such a person and very emotional about 
it.- I am a man who has made a great deal of money, and I haven't got a 
great deal. This is because I give it no value and a certain Christian 
precept is something to be lived by, and so forth. 

Now, I am sorry. This sounds roundabout. A socialist state, 
therefore, in other words, to jump to the ideal immediately in terms of 
the Marxist ideology, is a Utopian condition to be achieved in this 
country peacefully, which was my belief and the belief of people around 



1880 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

nit\ for this reason, Mr. Doyle, and this was the error : This had always 
been the error of the Communist Party, from my observation, within 
this community, until I have been raging mad at everything that was 
done and people in it who were bullheaded about it. To begin to know 
the philosophy of socialism, in backward countries where the class dif- 
ferences are great, very great, and terribly exaggerated over the condi- 
tions we know in this country, to overcome this, the theory of revolu- 
tion, of force and violence, was necessary within those political condi- 
tions. It couldn't be anything else. Therefore, arguing from a set of 
backward conditions in all the countries, in Russia, and I saw Russia — 
I would love to have described what I saw; no American can conceive 
it as I saw it in 1935. It was pitiful. People had no shoes, no autos, no 
means of transportation. They couldn't get bicycles. To get bicycles 
they had to pay in advance on the installment plan, that is, for a year 
before receiving it, instead of the reverse as we know it. 

Mr. Walter. Actually, conditions are worse there today than the 
horrible conditions that you saw in 1935. 

Mr. Buchman. Yes, I don't doubt it. Mr. Crankshaw, in a very 
interesting book called The Walls of the Kremlin or 

Mr. Siegel. The Crack in the Kremlin. 

Mr. Buchman. The Crack in the Kremlin has been a sober work 
on the nature of communism and Soviet Russia. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, I think you have given me the fundamental think- 
ing you have. I thank you for it. May I do this as a younger man 
than you are 

Mr. Buchman. I beg your pardon, Mr. Doyle. Well, wait. You 
may be right. I am 49. 

Mr. Doyle. I will say, then, may I say this to you as an older man 
than vou are, I want to urge you, sir, to fling into the American way 
of life vigorously and with vim and vigilance some of your marvelous 
capacity. I urge you to do that. 

Mr. Buchman. You will find me in a lot of causes, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I know, but you know what I refer to. 

Mr. Buchman. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Doyle. Because we must not, directly or indirectly, leave any- 
thing undone which will prevent the spread of the revolutionary idea 
amongst people who, whatever their reason, are subversive, even in 
the smallest way, Mr. Buchman. Let's not let that damnable thing 
grow through negligence on our part. Let's not leave it in the hands 
of people who would be subversive. I urge you to fling your life into 
it with us. 

Mr. Buchman. Thank you. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Walter. Any further questions, Mr. Tavenner? 

.Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Walter. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Siegel. May I make one observation, Mr. Walter. Will the 
record please show that since about 15 minutes before the recess and 
continuously since then this committee has functioned without a quo- 
rum and has had only two members present. I think for the purpose 
of the record, in view of the testimony given today, the position of the 
witness should be protected. Thank you. 

Mr. Walter. Your next witness. 



COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 1881 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I know the plans of the subcommittee 

are to leave, and 1 think it is going to unduly prolong you to put the 
next witness on the stand which we had planned to put on, Mr. Wheeler; 
Mr. Wheeler has made an examination of the bank accounts and 
financial records of the Hollywood League Against Nazism ; the Holly- 
wood Anti-Nazi League for Defense of American Democracy; Holly- 
wood League for Democracy ; Motion Picture Democratic Committee ; 
Hollywood Democratic Committee; Hollywood Independent Citizens 
Committee of the Arts. Sciences, and Professions; Progressive Citi- 
zens of America; Arts, Sciences and Professions Council, but Mr. 
Wheeler can present that testimony to the committee as a whole in 
Washington, as well as here, for the purpose of using the material in 
such reports as the committee desires to put out, and I will state only 
for the benefit of the record here now that this investigation showed the 
collection by those organizations which have been mentioned in the 
course of the testimony here as aggregating $926,508.36. 

There is one matter in connection with the record which I would 
like to correct as a matter of record and to call to the committee's 
attention and to the attention of the press. It has just come to my 
attention that in the questioning of one witness, the name of Dr. Sim- 
son, S-i-m-s-o-n, Marcus, M-a-r-c-u-s, was erroneously referred to, or 
erroneously recorded as Dr. Samuel M. Marcus. They are two entirely 
different people, and the committe had no intention of referring to 
Samuel M. Marcus. 

Mr. Walter. Where did the error occur? 

This has been the official record. I am sure it is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have not been able to examine the record, so I 
want to make it plain that there was no intended reference to Samuel 
M. Marcus. The name was Dr. Simson Marcus. 

We are also in receipt of another letter, and we thought possibly 
the sender of this letter, the writer, might be made available for testi- 
mony this afternoon, but we were unable to reach him. This is a letter 
addressed to Representative Francis Walter, chairman, and I would 
like to read it. 

Mi-. Walter. I would like to know what was in the letter before you 
read it. 

Mr. Tavexxer. You haven't seen it? 

Mr. Walter. No. Go ahead. 

Mr. Tavexxer (reading) : 

Dear Sir: Since my name has been placed before your committee by Martin 
Berkeley, of whom I have no recollection, and since I understand your com- 
mittee hearings come to a close Tuesday next, and since the metropolitan daily 
newspapers have carried my name, I am submitting this letter which I would 
appreciate your reading into the committee's records. My association with 
liberalism, and, subsequently, communism 

Mr. Walter. Now, just a minute. Has he requested an oppor- 
tunity to testify? 

Mr. Tavexxer. He requests that it be read. 

Mr. Walter. We are not going to do that sort of thing. If his 
name has been mentioned, give him an opportunity to testify under 
oath. 

Air. Tavenner. He is admitting in this letter that he was a member 
of the Communist Party. I see no real point in reading it, other than 
to state that. 



1882 COMMUNISM IN MOTION-PICTURE INDUSTRY 

Mr. "Walter. Is he in New York, you say? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir; he is here in California. Here is a tele- 
gram received from Mr. Roland Kibbee, K-i-b-b-e-e, in which he states 
he desires the committee to be notified : 

At best my recollection joined 1937 left 1939. No affiliation since then. 
Promise testify immediately on return. Scheduled late November. 

Roland Kibbee. 
Who is now in Italy. 

Mr. Walter. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe that is all. 

Mr. Walter. During the course of these hearings and the stay of this 
subcommittee in California, we have been treated very hospitably. I 
am not saying this for the benefit of the California members of the 
committee, I say this in all sincerity. The Police Department, the 
United States Government officials of all sorts, have cooperated, and 
I am particularly pleased, and we all are, with the manner in which 
the press covered these hearings. We have endeavored to avoid those 
sort of incidents that enable certain representatives of the press to 
resort to spectacular things and it has been most gratifying to see the 
coverage that we have gotten. I believe it has been fair. 

The hearings are not completed, there are things that will be looked 
into further, not only in connection with the matter now under con- 
sideration but in connection with the infiltration by Communists into 
other industry. In addition to that there is a conflict as to whether or 
not witnesses who have testified before this committee have been 
penalized for so doing. That matter will be looked into further. 

I believe that there will be a hearing on Friday in Washington 

Mr. Tavenner. I might call the chairman's attention to the fact 
that there are numerous subpenas outstanding for witnesses for hear- 
ings in Hollywood, and the committee has not as yet learned of the 
whereabouts of these individuals. 

Mr. Walter. If they are witnesses that have been evading service, 
why, of course, we will know how to deal with that situation. It may 
well be that their presence won't be required because I see no purpose 
in loading up a record with a lot of cumulative material. 

The meeting is adjourned. 

(Whereupon an adjournment was taken sine die.) 

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