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HARVARD COLLEGE 
LIBRARY 




GIFT OF THE 

GOVERNMENT 
OF THE UNITED STATES 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES 
AND CURRENT COMMUNIST TECHNIQUES IN THE 
CHICAGO, ILL., AREA 



HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES 



EIGHTY-SIXTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



MAY 5, 6, AND 7, 1959 
(INCLUDING INDEX) 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 



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Mf'Osited 3y THE 
mUQ STATES GGVimAim 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
41635 WASHINGTON : 1959 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
United States House of Representatives 

FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

CLYDE DOYLE, California GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio 

EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana WILLIAM E, MILLER, New York 

WILLIAM M. TUCK, Virginia AUGUST E. JOHANSEN, Michigan 

Richard Aeens, Staff Director 



CONTENTS 



Pact 

Synopsis 507 

May 5, 1959: Testimony of — 

Carl Nelson 518 

Leon Katzen 53'2 

Carl Nelson (resumed) 637 

Leon Katzen (resumed) 538 

Afternoon session: 

Richard Criley 546 

Leslie Orear 560 

Leon Beverly 562 

Samuel J. Parks, Jr 564 

Jack Souther 566 

Gloria Wailes 568 

Joseph Zabritski . . 570 

May 6, 1959: Testimony of— 

John R. Hackney 573 

Charles A. Hayes 589 

Rachel Carter Ellis 593 

Leo Turner 595 

Afternoon session: 

Albert P. Dency 599 

Francis William McBain 601 

Edwin A. Alexander 607 

Bernard Angert . 63 1 

May 7, 1959: Testimony of— 

Joseph A. Poskonka 637 

John Lewis 644 

Charles Proctor 647 

Donald H. Smith 651 

Jesse E. Prosten 654 

Index i 

m 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides: 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
* ****** 

18. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 

Rule XI 

POWEKS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities, 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to make from lime to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks 
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and 
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any necessary 
remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



Rule XII 

LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BT STANDING COMMITTEES 

Sec. 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the laws 
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem neces- 
sary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives 
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative 
agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the jurisdic- 
tion of such committee; and, for that purpose, shall study all pertinent reports 
and data submitted to the Congress by the agencies in the executive branch of 
the Government. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 86TH CONGRESS 
House Resolution 7, January 7, 1959 

* * * * * H: i: 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con- 
gress, 

******* 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 
****** ^i 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 



18. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by anj^ person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



26. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in 
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary, 
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness 
of the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject 
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee; and, for that 
purpose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House by 
the agencies in the executive branch of the Government. 



SYNOPSIS 



Communist penetration of vital industries and current techniques 
of the Communist conspiracy were the subjects of public hearings 
held in Chicago, 111., on May 5, 6, and 7, 1959. 

Mr. Carl Nelson of Chicago testified that from 1934 through 1949 
he was a member of the Communist Party and was in ideological 
sympathy with it; that after his severance with the formal Commu- 
nist Party he continued in the Communist operation until about 1954 
or 1955 serving principally in front groups. 

Mr. Nelson emphasized that the formal entity known as the Com- 
munist Party is only one segment of the total Communist operation 
in the United States and that in order to avoid the impact of cer- 
tain laws Communists often resign tecluiical membership in the 
formal Communist Party but continue in the Communist operation. 

Based upon his experience in various Communist units in the meat- 
packing industry in the greater Chicago area, Mr. Nelson stated that 
it was "saturated" by the Communist operation. There was exhibited 
to Mr. Nelson a leaflet which was one of several distributed in front 
of the courthouse in which the instant hearings were held. The leaf- 
let bore the title, "Chicago Committee To Defend Democratic liights," 
and was signed by Leon Katzen, chairman, and Richard Criley, execu- 
tive secretary. 

Mr. Nelson identified both Leon Katzen and Richard Criley as 
persons who to his certain knowledge were in the Communist Party. 

In the course of his testimony, Mr. Nelson detailed Commmiist 
strategy and tactics in penetrating the meatpacking industry and 
identified a number of persons in the meatpacking industry who to 
his certain knowledge were members of the Communist Party. 

Leon Katzen of Chicago, who had been identified by Carl Nelson 
as a member of the Communist Party, appeared in response to a sub- 
pena, but refused to answer questions respecting his occupation, 
whether or not he was chairman of the Chicago Committee To Defend 
Democratic Rights, whether he had used the name "Mike Samuels," 
and a number of questions regarding Coirmiunist activities. 

Richard Criley of Chicago, who had been identified by Carl Nelson 
as a member of the Communist Party, appeared in response to a sub- 
pena and invoked constitutional privileges when r<sked the following 
question: "Are you the Richard Criley who is listed here in this 
document as executive secretary of the Chicago Committee To De- 
fend Democratic Rights?" He, likewise, refused to answer questions 
respecting Communist Party activities and whether he was currently 
a member of the Communist Party. 

Leslie Orear of Chicago, who had been identified by Carl Nelson as 
a member of the Communist Party, appeared in response to a subpena 
and testified that he was the editor of The Packinghouse Worker; 

507 



508 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

that he was not currently a member of the Communist Party; and 
that he had not been a member of the Communist Party since 1954. 

Mr. Orear refused to answer whether he resigned technical mem- 
bership in the Communist Party and whether or not he had ever 
broken with the Communist Party. Although he asserted that he 
had at the time of the hearing a strong antipathy to the Conmiunist 
Party, he declined to answer whether he knew the names of persons 
in the Chicago area who were members of the Communist Party in 
1952, basing his declination on the ground that liis answer might tend 
to incriminate him. 

Leon Beverly, who had been identified by Carl Nelson as a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party, appeared in response to a subpena and 
testified that he was field representative for the United Packinghouse 
Workers. He denied current membership in the Communist Party 
but declined to answer whether he resigned teclinical membership 
in the Communist Party so that he could deny membership and yet 
maintain himself in the Communist operation. 

Samuel J. Parks, Jr., of Chicago appeared in response to a sub- 
pena and testified that for 3 years prior to April 1957 he was director 
of a department of the United Packinghouse Workers. He denied 
current membership in the Communist Party but refused to answer 
whether he resigned technical membership in the Communist Party 
so that he could deny under oath current membership while remaining 
in the Communist operation, basing his refusal on the ground that 
his answer might tend to incriminate him. 

Jack Souther of Chicago, who had been identified by Carl Nelson 
as a member of the Communist Party, appeared in response to a sub- 
pena and testified that he was secretary-treasurer of District 1, United 
Packinghouse Workers of America. Although he denied current 
membership in the Communist Party, he refused to answer whether 
he had ever been a member of the Communist Party and refused 
to answer whether he had resigned technical membership in the Com- 
munist Party but maintained himself in the Conmiunist operation, 
basing his refusal on the ground that his answer might tend to in- 
criminate him. 

Mrs. Gloria Wailes of Chicago, who had been identified by Carl 
Nelson as a member of the Communist Party, appeared in response 
to a subpena and testified that she was employed as a secretary in the 
international office of the United Packinghouse Workers of America. 
She denied current membership in the Communist Party but refused 
to answer whether she had ever been a member of the Communist 
Party and whether she had resigned technical membership in the 
Communist Party but maintained herself in the Communist opera- 
tion, basing her refusal on the ground that her answers might tend 
to incriminate her. 

Joseph Zabritski of Chicago, who had been identified by Carl Nel- 
son as a member of the Communist Party, appeared in response to 
a subpena and testified that he had been one-time president of Local 25, 
United Packinghouse Workers of America. Mr. Zabritski denied 
current membership in the Communist Party, but refused to answer 
whether he had resigned technical membership in the Communist 
Party but maintained himself in the Communist operation, basing his 
refusal on the ground that his answer might tend to incriminate him. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 509 

John R. Hackney, an international representative for the Amalga- 
mated Meatcutters and Butcher Workmen, testified that he had been a 
member of the Communist Party from approximately 1942 to 1948; 
that being a member of the Negro race, he joined the Communist Party 
because he believed that the party was the spearhead of the rights 
of the Negro people. Mr. Hackney broke with the Communist Party, 
however, upon realizing the insincerity of the Communists. 

With reference to Communist penetration of the meat industry, Mr. 
Hackney stated that : "Because the party felt that the meat industry 
was essential to the national economy and it was important that they 
build the party within the meat industry in the event that we had war 
with other nations, that we could control the meat industry and its 
various outlets." 

He continued : "From my most current information and my experi- 
ence in my activity in the party I would say that the party is stronger 
now in the meat industry than it ever has been." Mr. Hackney cor- 
roborated the testimony of Carl Nelson to the effect that the current 
technique of Communists is to resign technical membership in the 
formal Communist Party in order to avoid the impact of certain laws 
but to continue in the Communist operation. 

In the course of his testimony Mr, Hackneyj who had served as a 
Communist in a number of Communist units within the meatpacking 
industry, detailed Communist strategy and tactics in penetrating the 
meatpacking industry and identified a number of persons in the meat- 
packing industry who to his certain knowledge were members of the 
Communist Party. 

Charles A. Hayes of Chicago, director of District 1 of the United 
Packinghouse Workers, appeared in response to a subpena. Mr. 
Hayes denied current membership in the Conununist Party but de- 
clined to answer whether he had been a member of the Communist 
Party since the passage of the law requiring a non-Communist affi- 
davit of certain labor officials and whether he resigned technical 
membership in the Communist Party so that he could avoid the 
impact of that law, basing his declination on the ground that his 
answer might tend to incriminate him. 

Rachael Carter Ellis of Chicago, secretary to Charles A. Hayes, 
<iirector of District 1 of the United Packinghouse Workers, appeared 
in response to a subpena. She had previously been identified in the 
instant hearings by John R. Hackney as a member of the Communist 
Party, She denied current membership in the Communist Party 
but refused to answer whether she had been a member of the Com- 
munist Party during the preceding 2 years and whether she resigned 
technical membership in the Communist Party but maintained her- 
self in the Communist operation, basing her refusals on the ground 
that her answers might tend to incriminate her. 

Leo Turner of Chicago, who had been identified by Carl Nelson as 
a member of the Communist Party, appeared in response to a sub- 
pena and testified that he was a field representative of the United 
Packinghouse Workers of America. He denied current membership 
in the Communist Party but refused to answer whether he resigned 
teclinical membership in the Communist Party but maintained him- 
self in the Communist operation, basing his refusal on the ground 
that his answer miffht tend to incriminate him. 



610 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Albert P. Dency of Chicago appeared in response to a subpena. 
Although Mr. Dency was confronted with the information of the 
committee that he had been a member of the Communist Party in 
Waukegan, 111., in 1949, 1950, and 1951, he denied that he had ever 
been a member of tlie Communist Party or that he had been knowingly 
under the discipline of the Communist Party. 

Francis William McBain of Chicago appeared in response to a 
subpena and testified that he was a modelmaker. Mr. McBain re- 
fused to answer whether he was currently a member of the Commu- 
nist Party, basing his refusal on a number of grounds including the 
ground that his answer might tend to incriminate him. 

Edwin A. Alexander of Chicago appeared in response to a sub- 
pena and testified that he was a member of the professional staflf of 
the Jewish Federation, Metropolitan Chicago. Mr. Alexander re- 
counted his education and his employment, including liis past employ- 
ment as a full-time official for the district office of tlie Young Com- 
munist League of California and his past employment as a full-time 
official in the Communist Party. Mr. Alexander detailed his career 
in the Communist Party which, with interruptions, endured over 
a period of a number of years until 1956. Mr. Alexander's testi- 
mony included a narrative of his activities in various Communist 
enterprises but he refused to disclose the identity of persons who as of 
1956 were known by him to be members of the Communist Party .^ 

Bernard Angert of Evanston, 111., appeared in response to a sub- 
pena and testified that he was a mold maker. Mr. Angert refused to 
answer whether he was currently a member of the Communist Party, 
and whether he was currently engaged in Communist Party work in 
the International Association of Machinists as a colonizer, basing his 
refusal on the ground, among others, that his answers might tend to 
incriminate him. 

Joseph A. Poskonka of Chicago testified that he was currently in 
the Communist operation as a Communist functionary ; that in 1943 
he joined that part of the Communist operation known as the Com- 
munist Party, but that at no time had he ever been in sympathy with 
the Communist Party or Communist principles ; that his service in the 
Communist operation was at the behest and with the cooperation of 
the Federal Bureau of Investigation for the purpose of supplying 
information to the Government. With respect to the current serious- 
ness of the Communist operation in the United States, Mr. Poskonka 
testified as follows : 

Mr. Arens. I expect to interrogate you on several items in 
the course of your testimony this morning, but I should like 
at the outset to ask you first of all, based upon your back- 
ground and experience since 1943 until this instant in the 
Communist operation and your participation in the Com- 
munist Party as a formal entity, to tell this committee now, 
while you are under oath, how serious is the Communist 
movement, the Communist operation in the United States this 
instant. 

Mr. Poskonka. It is very, very serious. 



1 Under date of June 3, 1959, the Committee on Un-American Activities voted to recom- 
miend to the House of Representatives that Edwin A. Alexander be cited for contempt. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 5H 

Mr. Poskonka, who served for several years in the pockinghoiise 
segment of the Communist Party, testified respecting Commmiist 
penetration of the packinghouse industry in the greater Chicago area 
as follows : 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Poskonka, may I inquire on the basis of 
your service in the Communist operation up to and includ- 
ing the present instant, and your particular service in the 
packinghouse segment of the Communist operation, how seri- 
ous is the penetration by Communists of the packinghouse 
industry in the greater Chicago area ? 

Mr. Poskonka. It is veiy serious because they are domi- 
nating and any decent person of any kmd that might be a 
decent American citizen that would want to represent labor 
as a decent leader or decent citizen, if he is not a member of 
the Communists or in sympathy he could not be elected to 
office because he would be slammed as a union boss or racket- 
eer of some kind. 

In the course of his testimony INIr. Poskonka detailed Communist 
strategy in penetrating the meatpacking industry and identified a 
number of persons in the meatpacking industry who to his certain 
knowledge were members of the Communist Party. 

John Lewis of Chicago, who had been identified by Mr. Poskonka 
in the instant hearings as a person who had been known by him to 
be a member of the Communist Party, appeared in response to a 
subpena and testified that he was employed in the Swift Packing 
plant in Chicago and that he had held a number of offices in Local 
28 of the United Packinghouse Workers of America. 

Mr. Lewis denied current membership in the Communist Party 
but refused to answer if he had ever been a member of the Commu- 
nist Party and if he had resigned technical membei-ship in the Com- 
munist Party so that he could deny current membership in the 
Communist Party if and when interrogated under oath, basing his 
refusal on the ground that his answer might tend to incriminate him. 

Charles Proctor of Covert, Mich., who had been identified as a 
member of the Communist Party in the instant hearings by Joseph 
Poskonka and by John Hackney, appeared in response to a subpena 
and testified that he was manager of the Packinghouse Labor and 
Commimity Center; that he was one-time chairman of the gi'ievance 
conuTiittee for Local 28 of the United Packinghouse Workers in 
Chicago. Wlien a number of documents were exhibited to Mr. Proc- 
tor respecting his participation in certain Commmiist enterprises 
he refused to comment, basing his refusal on the ground that his 
answer might tend to incriminate him. Mr. Proctor denied that 
he had been a member of the Communist Party any time in the course 
of the preceding 5 years but refused to answer whether he had ever 
been a member of the Communist Party on the ground that his 
answer might tend to incriminate him. 

Donald H. Smith of Chicago, who had been identified in the instant 
hearings by Mr. Carl Nelson and Mr. John Hackney as a person 
who was a member of the Communist Party, appeared in response 
to a subpena and testified that he was employed as international 
representative. United Packinghouse Workers of America. Mr. 



512 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Smith denied current membership in the Conmiunist Party and de- 
clined to answer if he had been a member of the Commmiist Party 
in the course of the last 5 years, basing his declination on the ground 
that his answer might tend to incriminate him. 

Jesse E. Prosten, who had been identified as a member of the Com- 
munist Party in the instant hearings by Mr. Carl Nelson and Mr. 
Joseph A. Poskonka, appeared in response to a subpena and testified 
that he was an international representative for the United Packing- 
house Workers of America. Mr. Prosten denied current membership 
in the Communist Party but refused to answer whether he had been 
a member of the Communist Party at any time within the course of 
the last 5 years, basing his refusal on the ground that his answer 
might tend to incriminate him. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES 
AND CURRENT COMMUNIST TECHNIQUES IN THE 
CHICAGO, ILL., AREA 



TUESDAY, MAY 5, 1959 

United States House op Representatives, 

Subcommittee op the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Chicago, III. 

PUBLIC HEARINGS 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 

Eursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in courtroom 209, United States Court- 
ouse, 219 South Clark Street, Chicago, 111., Hon. Morgan M. Moul- 
der (subcommittee chairman) presiding. 

Subcommittee members present : Representatives Morgan M. Moul- 
der, of Missouri; Edwin E. Willis, of Louisiana; and August E. 
Johansen, of Michigan. 

Staff members present : Richard Arens, staff director, and Raymond 
T. Collins, investigator. 

Mr. Moulder. The subcommittee will be in order. 

The hearings which begin today in Chicago are in furtherance of 
the powers and duties of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 
pursuant to Public LaAv 601 of the 79th Congress, which not only 
establishes the basic jurisdiction of the committee, but also mandates 
this committee, along with other standing committees of the Congress 
of the United States, to exercise continuous watchfulness of the exe- 
cution of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the juris- 
diction of the committee. 

In response to this power and duty, the Committee on Un-Ameri- 
can Activities is continuously in the process of accimiulating factual 
information respecting Communists, the Communist Party, and Com- 
mimist activities which will enable the committee and the Congress 
to appraise the administration and operation of the Smith Act, the 
Internal Security Act of 1950, the Communist Control Act of 1954, 
and numerous provisions of the Criminal Code relating to espionage, 
sabotage, and subversion. In addition, the committee has before it 
numerous proposals to strengthen our legislative weapons designed 
to protect the internal security of this Nation. 

I shall now read the resolution of the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, authorizing and directing the holding of the instant hear- 
ings here in Chicago. 

Be it resolved, That hearings by the Committee on Un-American Activities 
or a subcommittee thereof, to be held in Chicago, 111., and at such other place 
or places as the Chairman may indicate, on such date or dates as the Chairman 

513 



514 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

may determine, be authorized and approved, including the conduct of investiga- 
tions dtH'mod reasonably necessary by the staff in preparation therefor, relating 
to the following matters and having the legislative purposes indicated: 

1. The extent, character and objects of Communist infiltration and Commu- 
nist Party propaganda activities in labor unions within the area of Chicago, the 
legislative purposes being : 

(a) To obtain information for use by the Committee in its consideration of a 
proposal to amend Section 4 of the Communist Control Act of 1954, prescrib- 
ing a penalty for knowingly and willfully becoming or remaining a member of 
the Communist Party with knowledge of the purposes or objectives thereof; 
and 

(b) To obtain additional information adding to the Committee's overall knowl- 
edge on the subject so that Congress may be kept informed and thus prepared to 
enact remedial legislation in the national defense and for internal security, 
when and if the exigencies of the situation require it. 

2. Conununist techniques and strategy in the raising of funds for the benefit 
of the Communist Party, the legislative purpose being to determine whether a 
recommendation should be made tightening the laws relating to tax exemption 
which labor unions enjoy, and for the additional reasons set forth in items 
1 (a) and (b) of this resolution. 

3. The execution by the administrative agencies concerned of the Internal 
Security Act, the Communist Control Act of 1954, the Foreign Agents Registra- 
tion Act, and all other laws, the subject matter of which is within the jurisdiction 
of the Committee, the legislative purpose being to exercise continuous watchful- 
ness of the execution of these laws to assist the Congress in appraising the 
administration of such laws, and in developing such amendments or related 
legislation as it may deem necessary. 

Be it further resolved. That the hearings may include any other matter within 
the jurisdiction of the Committee which it, or any subcommittee thereof ap- 
pointed to conduct this hearing, may designate. 

I shall now read the order of appointment of the subcommittee to 
conduct these hearings which was made by the chairman of the full 
committee, the Honorable Francis E, "Walter, of Pennsylvania : 

April 28, 1959. 
To : Mr. Richard Arens 
Staff Director 
House Committee on Un-American Activities 

Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the rules of this Committee, I hereby 
appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, consisting 
of Representatives Edwin E. Willis and August E. Johansen, as associate mem- 
bers, and Representative Morgan M. Moulder, as Chairman, to conduct hearings 
in Chicago. Illinois. Tuesday, May 5. 1959, at 10:00 a.m., on subjects imder 
investigation by the Committee and take such testimony on said day or succeeding 
days, as it may deem necessary. 

Please make this action a matter of Committee record. 

If any Member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. 

Given under my hand this 28th day of April 1959. 

(s) Francis E. Walter 
Chairman 

Committee on Un-American 
Activities 

These hearings in Chicago are in furtherance of a project of this 
committee on current techniques of the Communist conspiracy in this 
Nation. "We know that the strategy and tactics of the Communist 
Party are constantly changing for the purpose of avoiding detection 
and in an attempt to beguile the American people and the Grovernment 
respecting the true nature of the conspiracy. 

Preliminary investigations conducted 'by the staff indicate that 
a principal concentration point of Communists in the Chicago area 
is the packinghouse industry which is vital not only the ec<3nomy 
of this area but is essential in the maintenance of a stronsr national 



COMMUNIST INFILTEATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 515 

defense. Those of us who through the years have been engaged 
in the work of the Committee on Un-American Activities are obliged, 
from our experience, to conclude that there is no easy answer or 
quick solution to the many problems created by the Communist 
fifth column in our country. We must constantly keep abreast of 
the changing strategy and tactics of the Communist Party so that 
we may have factual information for our legislative purposes. 

In the course of the last few years, as a result of hearings and 
investigations, this committee has made over 80 separate recommenda- 
tions for legislative action. Legislation has been passed by the Con- 
gress embracing 35 of the recommendations, and 26 separate pro- 
posals are currently pending in the Congress on subjects covered by 
other committee recommendations. Moreover, in the course of the 
last few years numerous recommendations made by the committee 
for administrative action have been adopted by the executive agen- 
cies of our Government. 

Today the Communist Party, though reduced in size, continues 
as a serious threat to the security of our Nation. It has long since 
divested itself of unreliable elements. Those who remain are the 
hard-core, disciplined agents of the Kremlin on American soiL 
Most of the Communist Party operation in the United States to- 
day consists of underground, behind-the-scenes manipulations. 

What techniques are the hard-core Communists pursuing here in 
order to avoid detection as they pursue their nefarious work ? 

What loopholes or weaknesses exist in our security laws ? 

How can those laws be strengthened ? 

These are some of the questions I hope to have answered. 

The objective of our subcommittee during this brief stay in Chi- 
cago is to sample factual material on types and patterns of activity 
germane to the scope of our inquiry. We have not subpenaed wit- 
nesses here at random nor shall we attempt to exhaust the subject 
matter. To do so would require a disproportionate amount of time, 
both of the staff and of the subcommittee to the detriment of other 
equally important projects which are presently in process elsewhere 
in the United States. 

We seek only the facts. Insofar as it is within the power of 
this committee, as part of the United States Congress, we shall ob- 
tain the facts and we shall do so within the framework of carefully 
prescribed procedures, adopted by this committee, of justice and fair 
play as provided by the law of our land. 

It is a standing rule of this committee that any person identified as 
a member of the Communist Party during the course of the com- 
mittee hearings will be given an early opportunity to appear be- 
fore this committee, if he so desires, for the purpose of denying 
or explaining any testimony adversely affecting that person. It 
is also the policy of the committee to accord any witness the privi- 
lege of being represented by counsel to advise him; but within the 
provisions of the rules of this committee, counsel's sole and ex- 
clusive prerogative is to ad^dse liis client in a legal fashion. 

I would remind those present that a disturbance of any kind or an 
audible comment during the hearings will not be permitted. This 
is a serious proceeding in which we are earnestly trying to discharge 
an important and arduous duty with the general objective of main- 



516 COMMUNIST INPILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

taining the security and the American way of life of this great 
Nation. 

Do you have comments to add to that, Mr. Willis ? 

Mr. Willis. Mr. Chairman, you refer to the rules of the committee. 
It might be interesting to know, I think this is the one committee that 
operates under very enlightened and comprehensive rules. I have a 
copy here and the very last provision of the rules is that all witnesses 
appearing before the committee shall be furnished with a copy of the 
printed rules, and so on. The rules are available to the press, coun- 
sel, and to anybody who wants to see them. 

Mr. Moulder, Mr. Johansen. 

Mr. Johansen. The only comment I would like to make, Mr. 
Chairman, is that I am very happy to have the chairman and my 
colleague from Louisiana very clearly and emphatically set forth the 
fact that we do operate by prescribed rules, with the full regard for 
the rights of the witnesses. I tliink it is particularly timely, par- 
ticularly important to have that emphasized because of the evident 
misinformation that seems sometimes to be promulgated from other 
presumably responsible sources. I associate myself completely with 
the statement of the chairman and of Mr. Willis. 

Mr. Moulder. Thank you, gentlemen. 

Now, Congressman Walter, the chairman of the full committee of 
the House Committee on Un-American Activities, has requested that 
I read the following letter addressed to him by Ralph Helstein, pres- 
ident of the United Packinghouse Workers of America, an AFL-CIO 
union. The letter is dated May 1, 1959, and he has requested that I 
read this letter before the beginning of the hearing and insert the 
letter into the record. 

The letter is as follows : 

Honorable Francis E. Walter 

Chairman, House Committee on Un-American Activities 

House Office Building 

Washington 25, D.C. 

Dear Sir: 

In view of the fact that the House Committee on Un-American Activities has 
subpoenaed some present or former members of our union to appear at your 
sessions on May 5, 6 and 7, we have felt it appropriate to transmit to you a 
brief statement of the position of our union. 

We represent, as you are perhaps aware, over 100,000 employees in the meat 
packing industry and others in related industries. If you are familiar with 
the history of the meat-packing industry, you know it as one with the history 
of back-breaking labor and opprassive, soul-searing working conditions which 
earned for it the designation "the jungle." 

In the two decades since we came into existence, we have written a proud 
history of our own. We have built a record of economic improvement for 
packinghouse workers, and we have built a genuinely democratic union, widely 
respected for its honesty and integrity and one which is, we are convinced, free 
of outside influence, Communist or any other. We hold a respected position in 
the ranks of labor and in the communities in which our members reside. 

We are particularly proud of our status in the Negro communities of the 
nation. A relatively substantial proportion of our membership is Negro and our 
union has evidenced its special interest in and concern with the problems of the 
Negro people. Negro leaders have risen, on their merits, to positions of impor- 
tance in our ranks, and we have applied our energies actively to the task of 
eliminating discriminatory practices in American life. 

In this history of achievement, many, many people have played their roles — 
thousands of rank and file members, local, district and national officers and 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 517 

staff employees. Those individuals included among your subpoenaed witnesses 
who presently hold district or local office or who are currently on our field staff 
are among those who are recognized by our membership as having made, over 
many years, unselfish and consistent contributions to the growth and perform- 
ance of our union. So far as their records of performance show, they have 
passed the test of service to the needs of our members — organization of the 
unorganized, negotiation of contract improvements, honest and effective griev- 
ance presentation. 

Our union was born in the midst of the distress and disillusion of the depres- 
sion and post-depression years of the 1930's and 1940's. In the light of the 
background of the industry, the economic and social tensions of the times and 
the bitter opposition of the packing companies to our efforts at organization and 
improvement of conditions, it would have been strange indeed if among the 
packinghouse workers there were none who turned to one or another of the 
Utopian panaceas held out from various sources to the disillusioned : commu- 
nism, socialism, technocracy, single-tax programs, and all the rest. 

Before our union was very old, therefore, it was faced with a fundamental 
choice of procedures. It could have embarked upon a program that might have 
led to bitter internal conflict, diverting energies urgently needed for the task of 
providing economic improvements for the packinghouse workers. Our member- 
ship developed a different program, one which we believe to be in the best tradi- 
tions of our nation. There was never the slightest question or possibility of 
yielding control to a Communist group or any other ideology. But we felt 
that the challenge of Communism could best be met not by a civil war certain 
to blunt the union's collective bargaining effectiveness, but by demonstrating 
that a positive and democratic brand of unionism would produce results, thereby 
defeating the attractions of Communism by undercutting its ground. 

We believe our program was right for the packinghouse workers. We know 
that it worked. 

Our union has, over the years, established its position on Communism. Our 
union is firmly on record in its opposition to Communism — and all similar forms 
of authoritarian doctrine. Our union has adopted as official policy the AFL- 
CIO Ethical Practices Codes. No member of the Communist Party is or will 
be permitted to hold elective or appointive position in our union. For the im- 
plementation of this policy, the union has established, from its Executive Board, 
a committee to investigate situations involving possible violation of these Codes 
and a Public Review Commission of disinterested, prominent citizens, to assure 
that our procedures are effective to maintain integrity and democracy in our 
union. 

The path by which we reached our present position may not be the one which 
others have followed or would have prescribed. Perhaps members of your 
Committee would disagree as to our choice of paths — and we respect their right 
to disagree. We ask only the same respect for our right to our opinion as to 
the rigbtness of our course. We firmly believe that the result in our union 
proves that our forefathers' faith in the principles of the Bill of Rights was 
well founded. 

In enforcing our policies today, we are, of course, concerned with the present 
and the future. We do not feel that we serve any useful purpose by seeking 
to dredge up the muck of a dead past. If there are in our ranks persons with 
a Communist past, their present adherence to the democratic principles of our 
union represents a symbol of the victory of democratic philosophy over totali- 
tarianism, and we see no purpose in placing them in the public pillory. 

In our enforcement of our policies, we will, of course, give appropriate con- 
sideration to relevant evidence presented to your Committee as we would to 
similar evidence from any source. It is an unfortunate fact, however, that your 
Committee's decision to conduct these hearings happens to coincide in time with 
certain other developments. 

A rejected and disgruntled former officeholder has been engaged in an effort 
to revive the long dead Communist issue, as it affects our union, in what appears 
to us to be a frantic effort, unquestionably doomed to failure, to foist himself 
back on to a membership which has rejected him. There is also some evidence 
which suggests that he is acting for another union which is suspected of having 
hopes of gobbling up the membership of our organization. Finally, your hearings 
happen to come at a time when we are about to enter upon negotiations with the 
major packing companies, as the current three year term of contracts through- 

41635—59 2 



518 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

out the industry approaches expiration. Pressinj? problems of plant shut-downs, 
mass layoffs, technological unemployment, inadequate pension and severance 
pay clauses, and many others claim the attention of our members and leaders. 
Tlie sudden revival of long dead issues obviously plays into the hands of the 
packing companies. 

Under these circumstances, you will understand, I am sure, the feeling among 
many of our members that your hearings, may, without any such intent on your 
part, serve to aid some few who may wish to create a misleading public impres- 
sion of our union. We are confident, in all frankness, that our record of per- 
formance in the public interest is so clear and so well understood by those most 
directly concerned, that our union's public stature will readily withstand any 
such attack. 

Very truly yours, 
(s) Ralph Helstein, President. 

Chairman Walter requested that his comments as follows also be 
read and inserted into the record : 

1. There is no intention on the part of the House Un-American Activities Com- 
mittee, to interfere in any way, or on either side, with any negotiations between 
the union and employers. In this connection I wish to point out that these in- 
vestigations are in no way directed at the United Packinghouse Workers of 
America, as a union, or at its officers, as such. 

2. While it is true, as IMr. Helstein pointed out, that this Committee may well 
differ with the methods followed by the union to eliminate Communists, never- 
theless, the Committee welcomes the unequivocal assertion by the President of 
the union that the union is firmly on record in its opposition to Communism 
and all similar forms of authoritarian doctrine, that "no member of the Com- 
munist Party is, or will be permitted, to hold elective or appointive position" in the 
union and that a procedure involving a review by a public review commission of 
disinterested prominent citizens has been established to assure that this policy is 
being implemented. In these circumstances I am hopeful that any information 
adduced by this Committee concerning Communists holding elective or appointive 
position in the union will receive the full consideration of the union and the 
public board established by it. 

That concludes Chairman Walter's statement. I wish to apologize 
for taking so much time reading all these statements but I was re- 
quested by the chairman to place the letter and his statement in the 
record as well as our opening statement. 

Do you wish to add any other matter before we call the witnesses ? 

Are you ready to proceed ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. Call your first witness. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Carl Nelson, kindly come forward and remain 
standing while the chairman administers an oath. 

Mr. Moulder. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn, please? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
before the subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activi- 
ties will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do. 

Mr. Moulder. Be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF CARL NELSON 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

Mr. Nelson. Carl Nelson, 3093 West North Avenue. I am in the 
heating business. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 519 

Mr. Akens. Mr. Nelson, have you ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Nelson. I have. 

Mr. Moulder. May I suggest that the loud speaking apparatus be 
placed closer to him because with the fans going you can't hear with- 
out using that speaking system. 

Mr. Nelson. I have. 

Mr. Arens. Have you, in addition to being a member of the formal 
entity known as the Commmiist Party, likewise been a participant 
in the Communist operation ? 

Mr. Nelson. I have. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us, first of all, the period of your membership in 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Nelson. From 1934 through 1949. 

Mr. Moulder. Can you bring that closer to him ? 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly speak into the microphone here? 
The acoustics are rather poor. 

Mr. Nelson. From 1934 through 1949. 

Mr. Arens. After your severance with that entity known as the 
Communist Party, did you then stay in the Communist operation ? 

Mr. Nelson. I did up until about '54 or '55. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Nelson, so that the record may be clear at this 
point, were you ideologically in sympathy with the Communist Party, 
were you in truth and fact a Communist ? 

Mr. Nelson. I was. 

Mr. Arens. You were not an undercover agent of the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation as were some persons ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I wasn't. 

Mr. Arens. Now, before we proceed further so that we may keep 
your testimony in perspective, may I inquire what distinction do you 
as a person who has served for many years in the formal entity 
known as the Communist Party and likewise who has served until 
the course of the last few years in the Communist operation, what 
distinction do you make between the Communist Party as a formal 
entity and the Communist operation in the United States? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, there is no difference in it. Its different organ- 
izations are under the control of the Communists. They are all 
leading Communists that are heading these organizations. 

Mr. Arens. During the period in 1948 of the passage in the 80th 
Congress of amendments to the National Labor Relations Act, requir- 
ing certain officials to sign non-Communist affidavits, to your certain 
knowledge, did certain people resign from the formal entity known 
as the Communist Party and maintain themselves in the Communist 
operation ? 

Mr. Nelson. They did. 

Mr. Arens. Did they do that so that they could take a non-Com- 
munist affidavit in order to avoid the impact of the then existing law? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Nelson, I expect in the course of the testi- 
mony here to probe with you into your own operations, and I expect to 
elicit from you a pattern of Communist activity in which you and 
others have engaged, to your certain knowledge, in this area. But in 



520 COMMUNIST INTILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

order to keep your testimony in perspective at the moment I should 
like to ask you, based upon your extensive service in the formal entity 
known as the Communist Party plus your extensive service until 
recently in the Communist operation, how serious is the Communist 
menace in this area to your certain knowledge as of now ? 

Mr. Nelson. It is more serious now than it ever was before, because 
at this time although most of the people are not formally in the party 
still they maintain their Marxist-Leninist philosophy and they are in 
the leadership of various unions throughout the State of Illinois. I 
would say it is definitely in a better position today than they ever 
were. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Nelson, has the Communist operation and the Com- 
munist Party, being a part of the operation, to your certain knowl- 
edge penetrated the meatpacking industry in the greater Chicago 
area? 

Mr. Nelson. Saturated it. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Nelson, why has the Communist Party empha- 
sized a penetration of the meatpacking industry in this greater Chicago 
area? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, if this country was ever to go to war, an army has 
to travel on its stomach, and they would be in an excellent position to 
cut off food for the Armed Forces. 

Mr. Arens. Is the Communist Party a political party or is it a conr 
spiracy ? 

Mr. Nelson. From my experience it is a conspiracy. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Nelson, before we proceed with your personal his- 
tory in the Communist Party, I should like to display to you a leaflet, 
which was one of several that was distributed in front of this build- 
ing here this morning by pickets of a Chicago Committee to Defend 
Democratic Rights. As we entered this building this morning stretch- 
ing for at least three-quarters of a block carrying signs was a group 
known as the Chicago Committee to Defend Democratic Rights, and 
it has various bulletins it disseminated on the street corner there. Mr. 
Collins of the committee staff will now display to you a copy of a 
bulletin, and I should like to invite your attention to the names of the 
officers who appear as the leaders of this Chicago Committee to Defend 
Democratic Rights. Would you kindly read those names off? 

Mr. Nelson. Leon Katzen, formerly was the section organizer of the 
Communist Party on the northwest side. Richard Criley was a mem- 
ber of the section committee of the Communist Party of the packing- 
house industry. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Nelson, so there may be no question on this record, 
do you here and now while you are under oath identify Mr. Katzen 
and Mr. Criley as persons who, to your certain knowledge, while you 
were a member of the Communist Party, were in the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Nelson. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman. I respectfully suggest that the docu- 
ment which has now been displayed to the witness be appropriately 
marked and be incorporated in the body of the record. 

Mr. Moulder. As requested by counsel the document will be appro- 
priately marked and inserted as a part of the record. 



COMMUNIST INTILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 521 

(Document marked "Nelson Exhibit No. 1" follows :) 
Nelson Exhibit No. 1 
Chicago Committee to Defend Democratic Rights 

189 "West Madison St., Suite 811 LEGISLATIVE BULLETIN 

Chicago 2, III. (De 2-7142) 

HOUSE UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES COMMITTEE CHICAGO HEARING 

SET FOR MAY 5-6 

The Un-Americans are at it again ! Two groups of Chicago unionists have 
been subpoened to appear before it on May 5 and 6. They include members and 
former members of the United Packinghouse Workers of America and of Local 
#113 (Tool and Die) of the International Association of Machinists. Additional 
unionists may still be called at a later date. 

It is clear that the House Un-American Activities Committee hearing is a 
direct intervention into the internal affairs of labor. 

The House Committee (whose general mandate to function was questioned by 
the U.S. Supreme Court) has no specific authorization from Congress to con- 
duct such a hearing as that scheduled here. It is evident, also, that there can 
be no legitimate legislative purpose for this hearing. On both counts, the entire 
hearing is patently illegal, on the basis of the Supreme Court decision in the 
Watkins case (which stated that the Committee has no right to expose "for 
sake of exposure". 

Chairman Walter's public statement that the hearing is for the purpose of 
"investigating subversive infiltration" into defense industries is camouflage for 
a flagrant attack on unions and the constitutional rights of American workers. 
It will be recalled that the last "labor investigation" of the Committee in this 
area was in 1952 when it was timed to disrupt the strike of International Har- 
vester workers and the negotiations for a new contract in the meat packing 
industry. 

The House Committee has just completed witch-hunt against labor in the 
Pittsburgh area. In February in Los Angeles under guise of investigating "legal 
subversion", it unfolded an attack on defense attorneys in civil liberties cases, 
and on the constitutional right to be represented by counsel. In Atlanta, Geor- 
gia, last year, the Committee was denounced by over 200 prominent Negro leaders 
in the South for "trying to attach the 'subversive' label to any liberal white 
Southerner who dares to raise his voice in support of our democratic ideals." 

The recent actions of the House Un-American Activities Committee are the 
most potent argument for its abolition, and the cutting off of all further appro- 
priations. (For 1959, it has already been voted $327,000 by the House of Repre- 
sentatives). 

RECOMMENDATIONS FOB ACTION 

1. Write your Congressman to support the bill introduced by Representative 
James Roosevelt to abolish the House Un-American Activities Committee. 

2. See and judge for yourself by attending the hearing on May 5 and 6 at 
the Federal Building (Old Post Oflice), Clark and Adams Sts. 

Sincerely yours, 

(S) Leon Katzen, 
Leon Katzen, 

Chairman. 
(S) Richard Criley, 
Richard Criley, 
Executive Secretary. 
P.S. — We depend on your contributions to continue our activity. 

Mr. Moulder. May I inquire of the witness, when you answer the 
question regarding definite identification of these people as being 
members of the Communist Party, on what do you base your asser- 
tion that they were members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, Leon Katzen was the section organizer on the 
northwest side. I attended numerous, too numerous to mention, 



522 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

meetino^s with him, not only of the section committee, but the 34th 
Ward Branch of the Communist Party, and district meetings and 
too many meetin<rs to mention, and likewise with Richard Criley. 

Mr. Moulder. You were personally associated with them at these 
meetings you have mentioned? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Moulder. At different times? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Plave you served in closed Communist Party meet- 
ings with Leon Katzen and Richard Criley ? 

Mr. Nelson. Definitely. 

Mr. Arens. The chairman and executive secretary, respectively, 
of the Chicago Committee to Defend Democratic Rights? 

Mr. Nelson. Definitely. 

Mr. Moulder. In order to clarify the record on another point, you 
mentioned awhile ago that the union was saturated. That was in 
response to a question asked you by counsel. The industry was 
saturated, is that right? 

Mr. Nelson. Saturated. 

Mr. Moulder. To what period of time are you referring ? 

Mr. Nelson. I am referring to the time from '43 up until now. 

Mr. Moulder. You are still actively associated with the organiza- 
tion? 

Mr. Nelson. Not since '55, no. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed, Mr, Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Nelson, with that general perspective of 
your testimony, may I ask you, first of all where and when did you 
first associate yourself with the Communst Party ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was in 1934 I attended a school that they had set 
up on Chicago Avenue near Springfield. 

Mr. Arens. Was this a Communst training school? 

Mr. Nelson. This was a Communist training school, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly, at your own pace, without at the 
moment telling us about other persons who were actively engaged in 
the conspiracy, tell us the sequence of the identifications which you 
had within the various units of the Communist operation in the 
greater Chicago area? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I was recruited in 1934 in December by Norman 
Jay and was assigned to Unit 5-10. At that time they called the 
different sections of the party by numbers like Section 5, Unit 10, 
It means I belonged to Section 5 and Unit 10. And I also became, 
in 1935, a member of the section committee of Section 5 engaged 
in work with the Daily Worker. And in 1935 I attended a party 
training school at 1628 West Division Street. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any doubt in your mind, based upon the 
teachings which you received at the Communist Party training school, 
but that the Communist Party and the Communist operation in the 
United States is a fifth column on American soil ? 

Mr. Nelson. Correct. I believe it is. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly proceed with your career in the 
Communist operation ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, in 1940, I was working at the American Ex- 
celsior Co. on Halsted Street, and Mannie Bornstein called me and 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES: — CHICAGO 523 

told me to come down and see him. He was employed at that time 
with the Government employment service and he told me to go to 
work at Armour & Co. and he gave me a referral. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio was Mannie Bornstein ? 

Mr. Nelson. He was a member of the party, a former section or- 
ganizer out in Cicero. He ran for mayor of Cicero at one time. I 
believe it was in 1932. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Did you at his direction go to Armour 
&Co.? 

Mr. Nelson. I did. 

Mr. Arens. What did you do there ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, first meeting I had before I got into the Armour 
branch, I had a meeting with Les Orear, Jane March, Dave Mates, 
and Joe Bezenhoffer at Forum Hall. 

Mr. Arens. Pause there for a moment. Do you here and now, while 
you are under oath, identify each and every one of those persons whose 
names you just called off, as persons who, to your certain knowledge, 
were members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Nelson. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Was there a Communist Party tentacle or branch at 
Armour & Co. ? 

Mr. Nelson. There was. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Proceed, if you please, now to the next 
operation which you were engaged in. We will come back in a few 
moments to the actual operation itself. 

Mr. Nelson. In 1943 I got fired out of Armour and I went to Swift, 

Mr. Arens. Was that because of Communist Party activities that 
you were fired from Armour ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was. Then from Swift I went to 

Mr. Arens. Excuse me a moment. While you were at Swift, were 
you engaged as a comrade in Communist Party operations ? 

Mr. Nelson. I didn't belong to the Swift branch, no. 

Mr. Arens. Was there a branch at Swift ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, there was. 

Mr. Arens. Of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Proceed, if you please. 

Mr. Nelson. From there I went to Wyckoff Steel. 

Mr. Arens. When did you go to Wyckoff Steel Co. ? 

Mr. Nelson. In July of 1943. 

Mr. Arens. Did you engage in Communist Party operations there? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I engaged in union activities. I met a party mem- 
ber there, Ray Cerda. 

Mr. Arens. Was there a cell of the Communist Party there? 

Mr. Nelson. No. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir, your next activity. 

Mr. Nelson. I went to work with the Aluminum Corp. of America. 

Mr. Arens. When? 

Mr. Nelson. That was in 1948. And there I met Blanche Born, 
who was a member of the party. There was no cell there to my 
knowledge. And from there I went and got a release and tried to 
get a job at a higher skill, and I went over to the union hall, and Herb 
March told me to try to get a job in one of the small houses. That I 



524 COMMUNIST INTILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

attempted and didn't meet with success and I stopped in the employ- 
ment office at Wilson & Co. and asked if they were hiring pipe cover- 
ers, and they called out to the shop foreman, and I got a job as a pipe 
coverer in Wilson & Co. 

Mr. Arens. Was there a tentacle or branch or unit of the Com- 
munist Party at Wilson & Co. ? 

Mr. NeLvSon. There was a branch there. I was told to see Joe 
Zabritski, the party man at Wilson Co. 

Mr. Arens. Did you see him ? 

Mr. Nelson. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Do you here and now identify him as a person who, to 
your certain knowledge, was a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Nelson. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Did you serve in closed Communist Party meetings 
with him? 

Mr. Nelson. Numerous ones. 

Mr. Arens. Give us the next entity with which you were connected 
in Communist operations. 

Mr. Nelson. 1 became a member of the section committee there. 

Mr. Arens. Section committee of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Nelson. Of packing ; that is right. 

Mr. Arens. It was the packing fraction of the Communist Party, 
was it not? 

Mr. Nelson. It was the entire section, which was composed of lead- 
ing people from different plants in the packing industry. 

Mr. Arens. Was it a Communist operation ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Now, your next operation, please, sir? 

Mr. Nelson. I was in charge of the Daily Worker and the press 
in the Wilson Co. 

Mr. Arens. Do you mean in charge of the dissemination or distri- 
bution of the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Nelson. Distribution, sales promotion, and so forth. 

Mr. Arens. Your next operation, please, sir ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, after 1948 I was fired out of the plant. 

Mr. Arens. Was that for Communist operations ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. They refused to take myself and another fellow 
back. Then I was 

Mr. Arens. Who was the other fellow ? 

Mr. Nelson. Sam Parks. 

Mr. Arens. Was he, to your certain knowledge, a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Nelson. He was. 

Mr. Arens. Did you serve in closed Communist Party meetings 
with him? 

Mr. Nelson. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Do you here and now, while you are under oath, say 
without equivocation he was a Communist? 

Mr. Nelson. I do. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Would you kindly proceed to your 
next connection? 

Mr. Nelson. From there I got a job down at UE as custodian of 
the building. I believe it was from October 1948 until, I think it was 
February '49. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 525 

Mr. Arens. Did you serve in closed party meetings witb him ? 

Mr. Nelson. With who? 

Mr. Arens. Parks. 

Mr. Nelson. Oh, ;y^es. Numerous meetings. 

Mr. Aeens. All right, sir. Now you have in the sequence of events 
of your career in the Communist operation gotten up to the point 
where you were connected with the TJE. That is the United Electri- 
cal Workers Union, is it not ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about that, please, sir. 

Mr. Nelson. I quit there, and I got a job in G. H. Hammond as 
a pipe coverer. And G. H. Hammond, they asked me to accept an 
office in the union when the elections came around, which I did. I 
believe it was outside guard or inside guard in the union. And I 
was selected by Walter Price Co. to go to the founding convention 
of the National Negro Labor Council. 

Mr. Arens. Where was that? 

Mr. Nelson. That was held in Cincinnati. 

Mr. Arens. When was that? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe that was 1952. 

Mr. Arens. Was that a Communist operation ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was. 

Mr. Arens. Was it controlled by the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Nelson. It was. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Your next participation in the Com- 
munist operation ? 

Mr. Moulder. Can you explain in what respect, how it was, and 
upon what you base your statement ? 

Mr. Nelson. In the National Negro Labor Council ? 

Mr. Moulder. Tell us why you draw that conclusion when you 
make such a statement. 

Mr. Nelson. The entire leadership in the Chicago area was com- 
posed of Communists. They were all party members in the leader- 
ship of it. And that is the basis of my conclusion. 

Mr. Arens. What was your next connection with the Communist 
operation ? 

Mr. Nelson. Richard Criley came to me in 1953 — I believe it was 
1952, and asked me to serve on the Freedom of the Press Committee, 
as in the past I had been able to get quite a few subscriptions for the 
Chicago Star and the Daily Worker, and I accepted. I attended a 
meetmg at 5457 Chicago Avenue, where this was held, and I was 
elected onto the executive committee of the Freedom of the Press 
Committee. 

Mr. Arens. Was the Freedom of the Press Committee controlled 
by the Communist conspiracy? 

Mr. Nelson. It was. 

Mr. Arens. Can you, in similar fashion to your response to the 
question of the chairman of this subcommittee, tell us why you have 
reached that conclusion? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, the purpose of the committee was to raise funds 
for the Daily Worker, to get subscriptions for it, and in general build 
up the Daily Worker and Sunday Worker. 

Mr. Arens. Did the leadership of the Freedom of the Press Com- 
mittee consist of persons known by you to be Communists? 



526 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Nelson. It did. 

Mr. Arens. What caused your disassociation from the Communist 
operation ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I seen the way people had lied to me and I didn't 
like the way I was handled by Jim Keller. Then I went in business 
for myself, and I didn't have any time to fool around with it. 

Mr. Arens. Now, did the Communist Party, while you were in the 
operation, undertake to govern your personal life? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, when the strike was over, we were getting a 
little money from the union and I was cut off and my wife called the 
union hall and threatened to send a picket line down there with the 
children, and a special meeting of the party was called of the Wilson 
workers where Jim Keller told me I had to make a choice between 
my wife and the miion. And it was a meeting that night of the 
union where we went, and nothing was said about what had taken 
place. So that was one of the factors that led to me getting out of 
the party. 

Mr. Arens, Now, Mr. Nelson, may I invite your attention to per- 
sons known by you, to a certainty, to be members of the Communist 
Party during your career in the party. Where would you like to 
start? Would you like to start with the packinghouse workers 
fraction ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And give us the date, please, sir. 

Mr. Nelson. Well, from 1941 on, I Iniew Jesse Prosten to be a 
member of the party, was in hundreds of meetings with him. 

Mr. Arens. Would you pause as you give us information respecting 
each person who was, to a certainty, known by you to be a member of 
the Communist Party? And I admonish you now, as I have ad- 
monished you in private conversations, while you are under oath here 
and now to testify with respect to only those persons who, to your 
certain knowledge, were members of the Communist Party. Now 
give us a word about Jesse Prosten. Is this J-e-s-s-e P-r-o-s-t-e-n ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. 

Mr. Nelson. He was on the international union payroll. He was 
a member of the Armour branch of the Communist Party, and was a 
member of the section committee, which is the highest body in pack- 
ing of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. What is his status now in the United Packinghouse 
Workers of America? 

Mr. Nelson. That I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I should like to announce for the record 
that we have been making every effort to get Jesse Prosten under sub- 
pena and our security advices from confidential sources lead us to be- 
lieve that he is evading subpena and is now hiding out in the south- 
eastern part of the United States. We will continue until we do get 
him under subpena. 

Mr, Nelson. Les Orear. 

Mr. Arens. Let us be sure we have his name spelled properly. 

Mr. Nelson. Yes. O-r-e-a-r. 

Mr. Arens. Les is his first name ? 

Mr. Nelson. Leslie Orear, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about him. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 527 

Mr, Nelson. The first meeting I had before getting into the Armour 
branch was a meeting held in Forum Hall with Les Orear, Jane 
March, and Dave Mates, and Joe Bezenhoffer. Les Orear was the 
section educational director of the Communist Party. He was also a 
representative of the United Packinghouse Workers of America. 

Mr. Akens. And do you know what his present position is? 

Mr. Nelson. That I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, in the course of your membership in the Com- 
munist Party, know as a Communist a person by the name of Charles 
H. F-i-s-c-h-e-r? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I didn't. 

Mr. Arens. You say you did not ? 

Mr. Nelson. I did not, no. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly proceed to give us a word of de- 
scription about other persons who, to your certain knowledge, were 
known by you to be members of the Communist Party activity in 
penetrating the meatpacking industry ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, there was Herb March. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about him, please. 

Mr. Nelson. He proclaimed to the world he was a Communist ; at- 
tended himdreds of meetings with him. 

Mr. Moulder. Where were the meetings held that you referred to ? 

Mr. Nelson. The section committee meetings were held at the party 
headquarters at 4848 South Ashland Avenue. And other meetings 
that were held throughout the Chicago area, not necessarily sec- 
tion committee meetings, but they were party meetings, say, caucus 
meetings of delegates and party delegates going to the union conven- 
tions, and so forth. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist, Leon Beverly ? 

Mr. Nelson. I did. 

Mr. Arens. B-e-v-e-r-1-y? 

Mr. Nelson. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about Leon Beverly, if you please, sir. 

Mr. Nelson. Leon Beverly was a member of the section committee 
of the Communist Party, also member of the Armour local, and to 
the best of my knowledge he was president of the Armour local. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist Samuel J. Parks, 
P-a-r-k-s, Jr. ? 

Mr. Nelson. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about him, please, sir. 

Mr. Nelson. Sam Parks was a member of the Wilson branch of 
the Communist Party, was a member of the section committee of the 
Communist Party, and was sent to Europe by Chicago Star, the Com- 
mmiist Party paper. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know what his present occupation is? 

Mr. Nelson. As far as I know he runs a gas station. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist a man by the name of 
Jack Souther, S-o-u-t-h-e-r? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arens. Would you give us a word about him, please, sir. 

Mr. Nelson. I attended several meetings with Jack Souther, or 
numerous meetings I should say, and the last I know of Jack was that 
he was working in the district office. Just what his function is, I 
don't know. 



528 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. District office of what ? 

Mr, Nelson. The United Packinghouse Workers. 

Mr. Moulder. This gentleman was sent to Europe by the Chicago 
Star, you say ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; which was a Communist paper. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know the purpose of his journey to Europe? 

Mr. Nelson. It was to further enhance his political education. 

Mr. Moulder. Where in Europe, do you know ? 

Mr. Nelson. He went to London, France, Poland, and Czechoslo- 
vakia. I don't know all tlie different places he went there. But I know 
some of them. 

Mr. Moulder. You say he went there to enhance his Communist 
Party education ? 

Mr. Nelson. The party sent him there. They were sort of disap- 
pointed. They get a report every day about Sam and, according to 
them, all he was doing was enjoying himself in Paree. But that was 
the purpose of them sending him there. 

Mr. Arens. What year was he sent to Europe ? 

Mr. Nelson. That was, I believe in 1947 or 1946. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist a person by the name of 
Gloria Wailes ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about her, please, sir. 

Mr. Nelson. She worked for the Wilson local office as the office girl ; 
she did typing, took care of the files, and promoted the Daily Worker. 
I attended several meetings with her ; was a member of the National 
Negro Labor Council. 

Mr. Moulder. I am sorry, Mr. Arens, to interrupt. But I am sure 
the committee is interested in the point the witness brought out about 
enhancing the Communist Party political education by sending that 
man to Europe. Do you know of other instances where that has been 
done ? Is it a general policy or rule or a program on the part of the 
Communist Party organizations throughout this coimtry to occa- 
sionally send or designate some person to go to Europe for instructions 
from Communist Party leaders over there in the countries you have 
referred to. 

Mr. Nelson. They sent another fellow from the Swift local by the 
name of Charley Proctor. They sent him to Kussia. So they don't 
openly state that is the purpose of it. But that is what takes place. 

Mr. Moulder. The point I am trying to arrive at is direct evidence 
which shows that there is a direct connection between the Communist 
Party as it exists here in this country and the international Communist 
Party conspiracy referred to by our counsel, Mr. Arens ; that there is a 
constant negotiation and contact with the Communist Party leaders in 
Russia, with those Communist Party leaders in other countries, and in 
turn with the Communist Party leaders in this country. Is that so ? 

Mr. Nelson. There is a connection because how would we get reports 
every day ? Bill Cerda used to give us a report of what Sam was doing 
in Poland, what he was doing in France, what he was doing in Czecho- 
slovakia, or what he was doing in London. We used to get them daily 
from Bill Cerda. 

Mr. M0UI.DER. That is my purpose for bringing that out. I think it 
is very important. 



COMMUNIST INTILTKATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 529 

Mr. JoHANSEN. When you say you received these reports daily, 
•were those received at meetings or in individual conferences or what ? 

Mr. Nelson. These were given to leading people in the Communist 
Party in the section who, in turn, would relay them to people that were 
directly connected with 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Who was the individual, Cerda, you say was the 
source of the reports ? 

Mr. Nelson. Bill Cerda. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist, Joseph Zabritski? 
Z-a-b-r-i-t-s-k-i? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about him, please, sir. 

Mr. Nelson. Well, when I went to work in Wilson, Jesse Prosten 
told me to contact Joe Zabritski who was the party man in Wilson & 
Co., which I did. I attended hundreds of meetings with Zabritski, 
paid my dues to Zabritski. Zabritski was the secretary-treasurer of 
the Communist Party section and kept all the dues and membership 
records of the party members. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist, Charles A. Hayes, 
H-a-y-e-s? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about him, please, sir. 

Mr. Nelson. I attended many, many a meeting with Charles Hayes, 
in 4848 South Ashland, in his home, in my home, in different caucus 
meetings of party delegates, etc. 

Mr. Arens. To your certain knowledge was Hayes sent to any 
training school of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Nelson. He was. 

Mr. Arens. Where was that conducted ? 

Mr. Nelson. I believe it was conducted here at 1628 West Division 
Street. 

Mr. Arens. In what work for the Communist Party was Hayes 
engaged ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well Hayes at that time was 

Mr. Moulder. "Wliat time was that ? 

Mr. Nelson. That was 1946. 

It was after the strike. They sent Hayes to school with the hope 
to build him up because they were afraid they were building a "Franlv- 
enstein" in Sam Parks, and they wanted to use Hayes as a buffer against 
Sam Parks, which they did. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist, Rachel, R-a-c-h-e-l, 
Carter, C-a-r-t-e-r, Ellis, E-1-l-i-s? 

Mr. Nelson. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about Rachel Carter Ellis, please. 

Mr. Nelson. I attended meetings with her, and she worked down at 
the Daily Worker office on Washington Boulevard, and I used to 
bring subs in to her, and when I worked with Wyckoff Steel she was in 
the Local 453 office. I worked with, I think he was her husband, 
Hilliard Ellis, Hilliard Ellis and Sam Mariani. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist a person by the name 
of Lex) Turner, T-u-r-n-e-r ? 

Mr. Nelson. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about Leo Turner, please, sir. 



530 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Nelson. I know Leo Turner from working down at UE.. 
He used to attend the Trade Union Commission meetings of the party 
that were held there on a Saturday, or Saturdays, rather. And I know 
he had gone to Spain. 

Mr. Arens. Did he go to Spain to fight for the Communists? 

Mr. Nelson. He belonged to the Abraham Lincoln Brigade. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist a person by the name of 
John Lewis, L-e-w-i-s? 

Mr. Nelson. I did. 

Mr. Arens. A word about him, please, sir. 

Mr. Nelson. John Lewis used to work at Hammond & Co., and 
then he was transferred to Swift, when they transferred their slaugh- 
tering operation. He was a member of the section committee of the 
Communist Party, and he was the organizer of the party in Swift & 
Co. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist, Charles Proctor, 
P-r-o-c-t-o-r? 

Mr. Nelson. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us a word about him, please, sir. 

Mr. Nelson. Charley Proctor was also a member of the section 
committee. I was in numerous meetings with him. He was sent to^ 
Russia by the party. 

Mr. Arens. For what purpose ? 

Mr. Nelson. That I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist, Donald H. Smith, 
S-m-i-t-h? 

Mr. Nelson. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about him, please, sir. 

Mr. Nelson. I met Donald Smith in caucus meetings of party dele- 
gates to the convention at Montreal and the convention in Cleveland. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Commimist, LeRoy Johnson ? 

Mr. Nelson. No, I didn't. I know LeRoy Johnson, but I didn't 
know him as a Communist. 

Mr. Arens. Now, sir, could you give us just a word about the or- 
ganizational setup of the Communist operation within the greater 
Chicago area to your certain knowledge ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, District 8 takes in the entire State and part of 
Lake County, Ind., and they have it broken down on a political basis,, 
like senatorial and congressional districts and on a ward basis. And 
from there each branch has a given concentration on a factory. If it 
is in the 28th Ward, it would be the railroad industry ; or if it is in the 
14th Ward it would be packing. But the main concentration in 
Chicago is packing and steel. And in the period when I was sent to 
packing, Les Orear told me at that time that the party was really 
going to colonize in the packing industry. 

Mr. Arens. Was Les Orear known by you to be a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Counsel, excuse me, but as of what date, Wit- 
ness, are you testifying as to your knowledge of the organizational 
setup of the Communist Party in the Chicago area? 

Mr. Nelson. From 1934 through 1949, and like I say I wasn't in 
the party, but I was ideologically in sympathy with the party up' 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 531 

until '54 and '55, and up until that period that is when I knew about 
this setup. 

Mr. Moulder. Of course, as you know, in past hearings people have 
been named by witnesses as being members of the Communist Party, 
and if their names are common names and many other people have 
the same name, publication of those names sometimes causes embar- 
rassment and reflections upon persons who are in no way whatsoever 
connected with the Conununist Party. Do you know these people 
whom you named, where they may reside, or some additional identi- 
fication so they might be distinguished from other persons having the 
same name ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, I don't know where all of them reside. I know 
where some of them do, and it is possible that since that time they 
have moved. 

Mr. Moulder. I might add that they will be identified later during 
the course of these hearings. 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Willis. And, of course, may I interpose this: Mr. Witness, 
you are being truthful and testifying at least very freely. Of course, 
what you have to say covers the period of time that you talked about 
up to 1954 or '55. Now, you broke with the Commimist Party, dis- 
associated yourself from the party about that time, and you cannot 
go beyond that date as to these witnesses. Is that correct 2 

Mr. Nelson. Not organizationally, no. 

Mr. Willis. Not organizationally ? 

Mr. Nelson. Ideologically, I can, though, because I was a member 
of the Freedom of the Press Committee, I was a member of the 
National Negro Labor Council. 

Mr. Willis. I am talking about up to 1955. I say you have no 
knowledge of their association or whether they may be members today 
or might have quit, like you did in 1955. The limit of your testi- 
mony goes up to 1955 ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Nelson. Well, as far as knowing them organizationally, you 
can't go beyond 1949 ; but I know of activity after that. 

Mr. Willis. I see. Well, of course, our rules permit these witnesses 
to come forward themselves and to repudiate what you say, or, assum- 
ing you have told the truth — and I believe you have — they would 
have the right to do what you have done and say, "Well, that is cor- 
rect ; I had some association in years past, but I am not connected with 
the party any more." We would have to see their reaction if they 
want to testify. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, to further clarify the point that 
you are making, it is my understanding that the witness is not testify- 
ing of certain knowledge after 1954 or 1955 or thereabouts. 

Mr. Willis. Well, he indicated that, from general knowledge, he 
thinks they might still be ideologically connected. But he has not 
been in the organizational features. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Nelson, you have testified extensively in an 
executive session and have been in extensive consultation with the staff 
on a number of items which are perhaps not germane to the scope of 
our inquiry in this session ; isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 



532 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, in view of the outline of the scope of 
inquiry we have here today and in view of the fact that this witness 
has supplied the staff and the committee in executive session very 
substantial information on other items, other persons, and other areas 
of activity of the Communist operation with which Ave are not pres- 
ently concerned within the scope of the framework of this particular 
hearing, I respectfully suggest that would now conclude the staff in- 
terrogation of this witness for this proceeding. 

Mr. Moulder. I wish to make it clear so that it might be thor- 
oughly understood that all the persons whom you have referred to 
and named and identified as members of the Communist Party will 
be definitely and specifically identified during the course of these 
hearings by other witnesses. 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Moulder. We will stand in recess for a period of 5 minutes. 

(Subcommittee members present : Representatives Moulder, Willis, 
and Johansen.) 

(A brief recess was taken.) 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Moulder, Willis, 
and Johansen.) 

Mr. Moulder. Call your next witness, please, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Leon Katzen, kindly come forward and remain 
standing while the chairman administers an oath to you. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are 
about to give before this subcom.mittee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Katzen. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF LEON KATZEN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
IRVING G. STEINBEEG 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. EIatzen. My name is Leon Katzen, K-a-t-z-e-n. My residence 
is 1616C Touhy Avenue, Chicago, 111. 

Mr. Arens. And your occupation, please, sir? 

Mr. Katzen. I will refuse to answer that question. 

However, Mr. Chairman, I should first like to address a challenge 
to the committee based on what I consider to be the illegality of the 
subpena which was served upon me. I have neither been informed of 
the purpose of this inquiry nor have I ever been shown the rules of 
this committee. 

Mr. Moulder. Very well. 

Now the question directed by counsel was to state your occupation 
and — is that correct ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. Would you kindly tell us your occupation? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. May I, Mr. Chairman, have a copy of the rules and 
a copy of the stated purpose of this inquiry ? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now 
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to his occupation. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COMMUlSriST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 533 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, I believe that I am within my rights, 
particularly in the light of the comments made earlier by Mr. Willis, 
in asking for a copy of the rules of the committee. 

Mr. Arens. Witness, there is a copy of the rules of the committee 
which I am laying there on the table for your counsel. 

Now would you kindly answer the question, what is your present 
occupation ? 

Mr. ICatzen. Now, sir, I should like to have also a copy of the 
statement of the purpose. 

Mr. Arens. I will be glad to explain to you the pertinency and pur- 
pose of this particular inquiry. The Committee on Un-American 
Activities 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Arens, just a moment, if you please. 

Were you in the hearing room at the time I made the opening 
statement about 10 o'clock ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I was. I have been subpenaed 
to arrive here at 10 and I was here promptly. However, sir, may I 
say that your statement of the purpose of the inquiry, beginning with 
the authorizing resolution going back to the 79th Congress, was 
lengthy, complex, surrounded by all the difficulties of acoustics in this 
hall. This was a statement of purpose which, it occurs to me, for a 
witness properly to testify would require careful consideration, care- 
ful study in order that a witness might not only, if so minded, co- 
operate with the committee, but at the same time protect his own 
rights as guaranteed to the witnesses appearing before the committee. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now 
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to his occupation. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, do I understand that I am being re- 
fused a copy of the statement of the purpose which you read at the 
opening of the session ? 

Mr. Moulder. The record will show that the witness heard the 
statement read by the chairman of the subcommittee at great length, 
at which time the explanation was fully made and the witness was 
thoroughly informed of the purposes of this hearing. And you are 
directed to answer the question, and if you refuse, then we will 
proceed with the next question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, it means, as I understand it, then, that 
I am proceeding without a full knowledge of the purpose of the 
inquiry which is being carried forward here. 

Mr. Moulder. No. The record clearly shows that you have been 
thoroughly informed, that you heard the statement read, which clearly 
explains the purpose of the inquiry and the hearing being held. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. And in making this direction to answer the question, 
I wish to also say that it is not in the nature of a threat, but it is so 
that you might be fully advised and informed of the possible dangers 

41635 — 59 3 



534 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES ^CHICAGO 

which you mi^ht be incurring: in that you might be in contempt of 
Congress by refusing to answer the question. 

Mr. Katzen. Sir, I respect the motives with which this advice is 
given me. Nevertheless, I must ask to be permitted to state for the 
record that I was served with a subpena which I considered to have 
been illegal, in that I was neither served with the rules of the com- 
mittee nor with the purpose of the inquiry to which I was being asked 
to make myself present, and apparently I am being so refused now. 

Mr. Moulder. Before you proceed further, Mr. Arens, do you not 
think counsel should identify himself ? 

Mr. Arens. That generally follows, as the chairman will recall, 
after the witness identifies himself ; part of his identity is his occupa- 
tion, which he thus far refuses to give to the committee on this record. 
As soon as he gives his occupation, we subsequently identify the 
counsel. 

Now, sir, kindly tell us what is your occupation ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, without having been given an oppor- 
tunity to familiarize myself with the purpose of this inquiry and 
having been ordered to answer the question, I will now proceed. I 
shall refuse to answer this question on the following several grounds : 

First of all, I rely upon the first amendment to the Constitution 
of the United States, which says that Congress shall pass no law 
abridging freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of people 
peaceably to assemble or to petition their Government for redress of 
grievances. 

Further, I am refusing to answer this question on the grounds that 
the authorizing resolution referred to by Mr. Willis, under which this 
committee operates, is vague, nebulous, without specificity. Wlio 
is to say what is the meaning of un-American? There are those of 
us who believe that it is un-American to deprive the Negro children 
throughout the South of equality of education. There are those of 
us who believe that it is un-American to 

Mr. MoTTLDER. You were not asked to make any argument before 
the committee. As I understand, you declined to answer, claiming 
protection under the first amendment. 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, I had not yet completed my several 
grounds. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed. Make it as brief as possible. 

Mr. Katzen. I further am refusing to answer this question on the 
grounds of lack of pertinency. It has been stated here repeatedly 
that this is an inquiry into something to do with the labor movement. 
This certainly cannot be related to me, nor can my testimony, which 
I might give, be pertinent to the publicly stated purpose of this 
innuii-y. 

In the Watkins case I believe that the point was made very clear 
by Mr. Chief Justice Warren, speaking in behalf of the majority 
of the Supreme Court, in stating that it is necessary that there be 
])ertinenf"y to the question. 

Mr. Moulder. We cannot spend all our time listening to you re- 
viewing the decisions of the Supreme Court. We will be tolerant 
and have every respect for the witness. Now, as I understand, you 
decline to answer that question, and you have stated your reasons. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIE S^ — CHICAGO 535 

claiming the protection under the provisions of the Constitution, is 
that correct? 

Mr. Katzen. Under the provisions of the Constitution, Mr. Chair- 
man, and I shoukl like to state also for the record that I have full 
respect for the Congress of the United States of America. Never- 
theless, I feel that I should not be denied the opportunity to state 
fully the grounds upon which I am refusing to answer this question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. The Supreme Court 

Mr. Moulder. At this point, I would like to make a part of the 
record in connection with the testimony of this witness the statement 
which I read at the opening of this hearing this morning at 10 o'clock, 
the opening statement made by me as chairman of the subconnnittee. 
I would like to insert this document in the record at this point and 
have the record show that it is the statement referred to by the wit- 
ness which he has admitted he heard read at the opening session 
of this hearing. 

(For opening statement, see pp. 513-518.) 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, would it be pei-missible for me to ask 
that my counsel be given a copy of this statement which has just 
been inserted into the record ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, I give it right now. 

Mr. Moulder. May the record show that counsel representing the 
witness has a copy of the opening statement made by the chairman of 
this subcommittee. 

Mr. Arens. If you will hesitate there, may I inquire, are you rep- 
resented in this proceeding by counsel ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, would you kindly identify yourself? 

Mr. Steinberg. My name is Irving Steinberg, 180 West Washing- 
ton. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Witness, have you completed your answer, 
your response to the question as to your present occupation? 

Mr. Katzen. No, sir; I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly complete your answer ? 

Mr. Katzen. I further rest my refusal to answer this question on 
the groimds that in light of the Watkins decision any questions which 
may be placed to me in this inquiiy must necessarily lack specificity, 
pertinency, and consequently they must be without any meaning 
for me. 

Lastly, I should like to state that I am refusing to answer this ques- 
tion on the ground of the protection afforded, the privilege afforded, 
by the fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United States, 
which guarantees that I do not have to be a witness against myself, 
that I do not have to testify in a proceeding of this sort. 

Mr. Arens, Now, sir, do you honestly apprehend that if ^ou told 
this committee truthfully, while you are under oath, what your present 
occupation is, you would be supplying information which might be 
used against you in a criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Arens, I have been sworn in at these proceedings. 
I would be bound to give an honest answer, if only out of fear of tlie 
possibility of perjuring myself. The answer that I gave in refusing 
to answer the prior question was evidently an honest one. 



536 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Witness, you said a few moments ago you 
had difficulty determining what the purpose of this inquiry is here. 
I display to you now a document, which was identified by a previous 
witness, issued by the Chicago Committee to Defend Democratic 
Eights, signed Leon Katzen, chairman, and Richard Criley, executive 
secretary, in which the Chicago Committee to Defend Democratic 
Eights announces to the world what that committee thinks the purpose 
of this particular inquiry is. 

Would you kindly look at this document, which has been identified 
on this record by sworn testimony, and tell this committee whether 
or not you are the chairman of the Chicago Committee to Defend Dem- 
ocratic Rights ? 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. May I have an opportunity to read this ? 

Mr. Moulder. Certainly. 

Mr. Kj^tzen. Do I address myself to the chairman or you ? 

Mr. Arens. If you please. 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, I am refusing to answer this question 
on several grounds, which I should like to set forth. 

(Document previously marked "Nelson Exhibit No. 1" appears on 
p. 521.) 

Mr. Arens. Are those the same grounds you stated a few moments 
ago? 

Mr. Katzen. Might I be permitted to state the grounds ? 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer whether or not they are the 
5ame grounds you stated a few moments ago ? 

Mr. Katzen. Sir 

Mr. Moulder. To expedite the proceedings and not take so much 
of your time, you can, if you wish, reassert the same reasons by ref- 
erence and they will be considered as the same reasons in response to 
this question. 

Mr. Katzen. I should like, if I may, to restate the reasons, if only 
for the purpose of making precise and perfectly clear what my reasons 
are for refusal to answer. 

Mr. Moulder. You have that privilege. 

Mr. Katzen. All right, sir. 

I am refusing to answer this question on the grounds that the ques- 
tion violates the rights guaranteed me under the first amendment to 
the Constitution of the United States. It seems to me, I may say, 
Mr. Chairman, that addressing this question to me precisely violates 
my rights under freedom of the press, because apparently this written 
piece of material to which my name is allegedly attached is something 
which is considered to be inimical and worthy of investigation in the 
light of subversive propaganda objectives which the committee is 
interested in. 

I further refuse to answer this question again on the grounds of 
the lack of specificity of the authorization originally granted this 
committee, in that there is no one who is able to define the meaning 
of the word "un-American," and I tie this up with my earlier ground, 
in that it is implied that a statement of this kind is un-American. 
I submit, sir, there might be a wide variance of opinion about this, 
just as there could be a wide variance of opinion as to the activities, 
let it be said, of this committee. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VII AL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 537 

I likewise, sir, would like to reiterate the grounds which I stated 
last, which is that I invoke the privilege under the fifth amendment 
of refusing to be called upon to serve as a witness against myself. 

Mr. Arens. Sir, are you now, this very instant, a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzex. Sir, I am refusing to answer this question on the basis 
of several grounds which I should like to cite. First of all, I rest my 
refusal to answer this question on the ground that it violates a free- 
dom guaranteed me under the first amendment to the Constitution 
of the United States of America, which states that Congress shall pass 
no law abridging the right to freedom of assembly and by extension 
to freedom of association. 

I should further like to state as my ground for refusal to answer 
this question that the authorizing resolution empowering the activity 
of this committee is vague, nebulous, without specificity, consequently 
meaningless. 

And I repeat what is the meaning of un-American is subject to 
much debate and discussion. There are those of us who believe that 
the activities of the Atomic Energy Commission in denying to the 
American people the facts concerning the hazards of radiation fall- 
out are pursuing an un-American course. 

Mr. Moulder. That, of course, is argument about the use of the 
phrase "un-American." I cannot see that that is in point. 

Mr. Katzen. I further insist to register my refusal to answer this 
question on the grounds of lack of pertinency and relevance of any 
questions which will be placed to me during an inquiry having to do 
with the labor movement to myself. They are completely unrelated. 

And lastly, I want to restate my ground that I invoke the privilge 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that Mr. Nelson 
be called forward now. 

Mr. Nelson, would you kindly come forward ? 

TESTIMONY OF GAEL NELSON— Kesumed 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Nelson, an hour or so ago, you were sworn to tell 
the truth before this committee, were you not ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr, Arens. During the course of your testimony you stated, in 
effect, that while you were a member of the Communist Party you 
knew as a Communist a person by the name of Leon Katzen. Is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Nelson. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Do you see now in this Federal court room the per- 
son who, to your certain knowledge, was a member of the Communist 
Party whom you knew by the name of Leon Katzen ? 

Mr. Nelson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. And referred to in your testimony. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly point him out now to this com- 
mittee ? 

Mr. Nelson. Right there. [Indicating.] 

Mr. Moulder. The record will show that the witness, Mr. Nelson, 
pointed to Katzen, the witness now on the stand. 



538 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

TESTIMONY OP LEON KATZEN— Resumed 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Katzen, Mr. Nelson lias just looked you in the 
eye and, while he was under oath, identified you, in your presence, 
in the presence of your counsel, and in the presence of this committee 
in this public session, as a person known by him to be a member of 
the Communist Party. So there will be no question of the faceless 
informer, would you kindly look Mr. Nelson in the face and tell this 
committee now : Was Mr. Nelson telling the truth when he swore you 
were a Communist or was he in error ? 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, I must now most respectfully suggest 
and urge that my counsel be given the opportunity to cross-examine 
this witness, otherwise the identification be expunged from the record 
as having come from, in fact, a faceless informer. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. I want to make this statement in response to what 
the witness has just said. 

Our committee is the only investigating committee that I know of 
in the Congress having rules and regulations which give to witnesses 
subpenaed before the committee an opportunity under our rules to be 
represented by counsel, to be advised at all times during the course 
of the hearings. We have gone as far as is possible. We have 
adopted procedures to protect the individual rights of witnesses 
appearing before the committee without going into the courtroom 
procedure, because after all the witness is not on trial. This com- 
mittee lias no authority to punish anyone or to prosecute anyone. 
If we complied with your request, we would be here all day in cross- 
-examination of the witness as requested by you. 

Then, secondly, you have been accused (identified) here by the wit- 
ness, Mr. Nelson. He has made his statement very frankly. You 
heard his testimony at great length in the hearing room, and he posi- 
tively identified you as a person he referred to in his testimony. And 
now instead of availing yourself of the opportunity of denying or 
affirming his testimony, you take refuge behind the request that your 
counsel be permitted to cross-examine. 

Now, do you wish to deny or affirm the statement made by Mr. Nel- 
son in his testimony concerning your Communist activities? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, exactly for the reason that you, sir, 
used the word "accused" with all of the implications and overtones 
•which flow from the ordinary meaning of that word and in the light 
of the fact that in the Watkins case the Supreme Court said that the 
guarantees of due process before an investigating committee must be 
no less than those in the judicial process, I now, therefore, renew my 
request that my counsel be permitted to cross-examine the last identi- 
fying witness, or that the testimony given by this witness in the form 
of accusation against me be expunged from the record as of no value, 
worthless, misleading, and irrelevant. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever used any name other than the name 
Leon Katzen ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COMMUNIST INFILTKATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 539 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, I must refuse to answer this question 
basing myself on several grounds which I should like to cite. 

I first ijase my refusal to answer this question on the basis of the 
first amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which guar- 
antees that each citizen shall enjoy without abridgment by Congress 
freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of assembly, that under 
the fifth amendment to the Constitution each citizen shall be guaran- 
teed freedom of his person. 

I further cite as grounds for my refusal the fact that the authorizing 
resolution under which this committee operates is without sufficient 
clarity and definition, is so nebulous and vague as to make the pur- 
poses, the aims, and the objectives of this committee meaningless, or of 
multiple meaning, depending upon the observer. 

I further cite as a ground the lack of pertinency and relevancy 
in a hearing of the kind that this has been announced to be of any 
questions which may be put to me. 

And lastly, I base my refusal to answer this question on the grounds 
that under the fifth amendment I cannot be compelled to become a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Moulder. Before proceeding, Mr. Arens, may I say this: In 
the beginning you stated you heard the statement read this morning 
about the purposes for which the hearings are being held. In that 
statement we stated our desire to know the extent, the character, and 
the objectives of the Communist infiltration and Communist Party 
propaganda activities in the labor unions in the area of Chicago. 

We want this information produced by the committee for its con- 
sideration of amending section 4 of the Communist Party Control 
Act of 1954. 

I ask you this question : Do you have any knowledge or information 
concerning the extent, character, and objectives of the Communist 
Party's infiltration and Communist Party propaganda activities in 
labor unions within the area of Chicago ? 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, it is my understanding — and you will 
correct me if I am in error — that the subpena which was served upon 
me on the 30th of April was seemingly served as an afterthought. 
The subpenas which were served on other people who may be called 
upon to testify today were issued far prior to this time. 

Mr. Moulder. May I interrupt ? 

Mr. Katzen. May I ask a question, sir ? 

Mr. Moulder. You are not answering the question. It is a very 
simple question. Do you have or possess any such knowledge or in- 
formation ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. But, Mr. Chairman, I am trying to get some clarifica- 
cation, and this is why I put the question as I did. It is my under- 
standing — correct me if I am wrong — that the subpena served upon 
me was served only after a letter to which my name has allegedly 
been signed, calling for the abolition of this committee, was freely 
circulated in this area. I want to understand if that is the connection 
between my appearance here and my receipt of the subpena. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you decline to answer the question ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. Well, Mr. Chairman, the question appears to me to be 
so vague, consisting actually as it does, if I understand it correctly, 



540 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

of tliree separate questions, tliat I must refuse to answer it on the 
grounds which I liave previously cited in my refusal to answer prior 
questions. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. MotTLDER. Do you have any knowledge or information whatso- 
ever concerning Communist Party techniques and strategy in the rais- 
ing of money for the benefit of the Communist Party in this area ? 
^The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. ELatzen. It is my impression, Mr. Chairman, that this ques- 
tion because of its vagueness, because of the fact that it embodies 
really several questions, cannot be answered; and, therefore, I must 
refuse to address myself to it on the grounds that number 1, under 
the protection of the first amendment to the Constitution of the United 
States, which states that Congress shall pass no law abridging free- 
dom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of citizens peaceably to 
assemble or freedom to petition their Government for redress of griev- 
ances ; on the ground that the authorizing resolution under which this 
committee is operating is so vague and tenuous and diffused as to be 
without specific meaning and that, therefore, necessarily the ques- 
tions which will be placed to me will be vague; that the questions 
placed to me must necessarily lack of relevancy, pertinency, and have 
no relationship to me; and lastly on the grounds that under the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution I cannot be compelled to become a 
witness against myself. 

It is for these reasons that I refuse to answer this question . 

Mr. Willis. Mr. Chairman, I am not asking a question, but I call 
attention to this part of your statement which, of course, is correct : 
Despite statements that have been made that this committee has no 
legislative purpose, the truth of the matter as stated in your statement 
is, and I quote, "Legislation has been passed by the Congress embrac- 
ing 35 of the committee recommendations." 

Mr. Moulder. That is correct. And in connection with the ques- 
tion being asked, I cannot understand how you can construe the 
question which I propounded, as to whether or not you have any 
knowledge or information, as being a vague question. Again I direct 
the witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, could I ask that the court reporter 
read the question back so that I may test my memory as to whether it, 
in fact, was not a vague question consisting, in fact, of several ques- 
tions ? 

Mr. Moulder. The record will speak for itself. I think your re- 
quest is purely vexatious to delay our proceedings. Go ahead, Mr. 
Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, so the record may be straight as to 
the pertinency, I should like now, as I have done in previous hearings, 
to make on this record a legalistic explanation of the pertinency of 
this subject which is under inquiry by this committee : 

Sir, the Committee on Un-American Activities is under a mandate 
from the United States Congress to perform two principal functions. 
One function is to maintain a continuing surveillance over the ad- 
ministration and operation of the security laws. These laws include 
the Internal Security Act of 1950, the Communist Control Act of 1954, 
the Foreign Agents Registration Act, numerous provisions of the 
Criminal Code relating to espionage, sabotage, and internal security. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 541 

The second principal function of this committee is to develop fac- 
tual information upon which it can recommend to the Congress of the 
United States legislative proposals for the purpose of safeguarding 
the internal security of this Nation. Over the course of many years, 
this committee has assembled great quantities of factual information 
which has been the basis upon which the Congi-ess of the United 
States has enacted considerable internal security legislation. 

It is the information of this committee and it is the information of 
the United States Congress — indeed, it ought to be the information of 
all patriotic Americans — that there is sweeping the world now a god- 
less, atheistic conspiracy known as communism, an international con- 
spiratorial operation of which the conspiracy in the United States is 
just one tentacle. It is the objective of this conspiracy to crush all 
human freedom. It is the objective of this conspiracy to stamp out 
all the values upon which this civilization in the West and the free 
world has been founded. 

It is the information of this committee, sir, that you are part and 
parcel of that conspiracy; that you, sir, are a dedicated, hard-core 
Communist; that you, sir, have been practicing the techniques, con- 
spiratorial operations of the Communist conspiracy within the greater 
Chicago area dedicated to overthrow this Government of the United 
States and dedicated to destroy the Constitution of the United States, 
behind which you have sought protection today. 

Before this committee in executive session based upon intelligence 
information, we believe that you, sir, presently have information re- 
specting the operation of that conspiracy which is sweeping the world 
and which, according to this witness this morning and other witnesses 
of like knowledge, is more serious, a more deadly menace than ever be- 
fore in the history of this Nation. 

Now, sir, with that explanation of pertinency, I ask you this ques- 
tion: Have you, sir, in the course of your life used the name Mike 
Samuels, S-a-m-u-e-1-s ? 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, I am not used to inquiries of this sort. 
It appears to me, however, that the dictates of justice would require 
that I be given an opportunity to make a statement with regard to 
the lengthy statement that was made by the staff director. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now 
be ordered to answer the question as to whether or not he has in his 
lifetime used the name 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman 



Mr. Arens. — Mike Samuels. 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, I am asking for an opportunity to an- 
swer the statem^ent. 

Mr. Moulder. The counsel has given you a very lengthy explanation 
of the pertinency of the question that has been propounded. 

Would you repeat the question, Mr. Arens ? 

Mr. Katzen. He also made accusation. 

Mr. Arens. The question is. Have you used the name Mike Samuels ? 

Mr. Katzen. The question, sir, is clear enough. 

Mr. Arens. If you give us a truthful and complete answer to that 
question, I expect to explore with you some of your activities in the 
conspiracy known as the Communist Party in the greater Chicago area 
in which you have used the name Mike Samuels. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



542 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. Now, sir, would you kindly answer the question ? 

Mr. IViVTZEN. Mr. Chairman, the question is certainly clear enough, 
but the statement which contained a variety of accusations and innu- 
endoes against me requires, in my opinion, in simple justice a re- 
buttal 

Mr. Arens. Do you want to deny 

Mr. Katzen. — an answer. 

Mr. Arens. — you are, and in the past have been, a member of the 
Communist conspiracy operating in the Chicago area ? 

Mr. Katzen. Sir, what I want to state is that all of the activities 
which this committee is allegedly looking into are protected by the 
first amendment to the Constitution of the United States, and that 
the best effort that this committee might make would be to exercise 
that fii"st amendment more than it has been exercised in the recent 
period of time, if we are truly dedicated to the maintenance of the 
freedoms upon which this country was founded. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is directed to answer the question pro- 
pounded by counsel. 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, at this time I must refuse to answer 
this question upon the basis of several grounds which I wish to state; 
and while I don't know whether it may legally be cited as a ground, 
Mr. Chairman, it appears to me — I am not oversensitive, I am not a 
child — but I gather that there is a very definite overtone of hostility 
being directed against me by the staff director. However, this is 
not one of the grounds for my refusal to answer, because I don't know 
whether it would be acceptable. 

My gi-ounds are rather. No. 1, that I feel that the question put to 
me is a violation of the rights guaranteed me under the first amend- 
ment to the Constitution of the United States ; No. 2, that the question 
put to me flows from an authorizing resolution to this committee which 
is so vague and nebulous, tenuous, and without boundary as to make 
any question which flows from that authorizing resolution necessarily 
vague, nebulous, unanswerable. 

I further refuse to answer this question on the oft-stated grounds 
of lack of relevancy and pertinency to me or to this inquiry as the in- 
quiry has been given a purpose in the public statement by the chair- 
man. 

And last, I suggest that I have the right to refuse on the grounds 
that the subpena issued to me was, in fact, issued as an afterthought 
by reason of the allegation that I was a signer of a piece of material 
which, in fact, was not distributed outside the courthouse, but which 
1 am reliably informed was received through the mail by some 10,000 
people throughout this area. 

Ajid lastly, I am refusing to answer on the grounds that the fifth 
amendment guarantees that I may not be compelled to become a witness 
against myself. 

Mr, Arens. In passing, would you tell us who informed you that 
there were 10,000 of these leaflets distributed by this Chicago Com- 
mittee to Defend Democratic Eights? Could you help us on that, 
please, sir? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, it may very well be that the individual 
who told me 10,000 copies may have been in error. It may very well 
have been 15,000 or 20 .000 copies. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES^ — CHICAGO 543 

Mr. Moulder. Not questioning the accuracy of the number, he asked 
you the question of who told you. You have opened up a subject of 
discussion by making that statement. 

Counsel, you heard — that question. 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, may I understand? Am I being di- 
rected to ansAver that question? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes, answer the question. You raised the question. 
I think you should be directed to answer. You have not answered 
any question yet. We would like to have some answers. 

Mr. Katzen. Are you directing me, sir ? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes, you are being directed. 

Mr. Katzen, If I am being directed, sir, then I must refuse to 
answer this question, and to save time, on the basis of the same essen- 
tial grounds as those which I cited for my refusal to answer all prior 
questions. 

Mr. Moulder. For reasons previously given. 

Mr. Arens. Now, sir, I display to you an original card, a transfer 
card to be sent to the central office through the district office — the 
central office of the Communist Party of the U.S.A. — transferring 
a particular comrade from one section of this conspiratorial opera- 
tion to another. This transfer card is signed by Mike Samuels, 
S-a-m-u-e-1-s, on the transfer card identified as "organizer." The 
date on this transfer card is March 1, 1939. 

Kindly look at this transfer card which I display to you and tell 
this conmiittee, while you are under oath, whether or not you are the 
Mike Samuels — ^you used the name Mike Samuels — and whether or 
not you affixed the signature "IMike Samuels" to that Communist 
Party transfer card. 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Steinberg. May I look at Exhibit 1 ? 

Mr. Arens. Exhibit 1 ? 

Mr. Steinberg. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. The record will show the witness and his counsel are 
examining the docmnent 

Mr. Steinberg. Yes, that is so, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. — referred to by counsel. 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, I must refuse to answer that question 
on the grounds which I shall, if I may, with ;70ur permission, sir, cite 
in capsule form as essentially those wliich I cited before, to wit : 

On the grounds that the first amendment to the Constitution of 
the United States is the guarantee for every American citizen that 
Congress shall pass no law abridging freedom of speech, freedom of 
the press, freedom of religion, freedom of the right peaceably to 
assemble, freedom of citizens peaceably to address petitions to their 
Government for redress of grievances ; 

On the further grounds that the authorizing resolution of this 
committee is sufficiently vagiie and tenuous as to permit of so wide a 
variety of interpretations as to be in effect without meaning, that the 
specific jurisdiction of this committee for the purpose of conducting 
this inquiry is consequently vague. 



544 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. JoHANSEN". May I suggest, Witness, this is a pretty large cap- 
sule, and I think the witness answered adequately when he said it 
was on the previous grounds. These are obvious dilatory tactics, 

Mr. Moulder. You can, of course, decline to answer and claim 
the very same reasons previously stated. It might expedite the pro- 
ceedings. But, on the other hand, we want to give you the privilege. 

Mr. Katzen". Sir, that was my offer, and I believe on my prior 
question I did answer that way, but that on the question before < hat 
I answered once more at length, lest there be any misunderstanding 
concerning precisely what these grounds are. 

Mr. Moulder. You claim all of the reasons ? 

Mr. Katzen". Show for the record that I am willing, sir, to let it go. 

Mr. Moulder. You are declining to answer for all of the reasons 
previously stated? 

Mr. Katzen. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. Any one and all. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the exhibit 
I displayed to the witness be appropriately marked and incorpor- 
ated by reference in the record. 

Mr. Moulder. Yes ; it is so ordered. 

(Document marked "Katzen Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed at your present 
occupation ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, I submit that this question is most 
clearly an invasion of my privacy. I, therefore, refuse to answer on 
the grounds that the first amendment to the Constitution of the 
United States serves as a guarantee for every citizen that Congress 
shall pass no law abridging the right of the people of the United 
States to the freedom of press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, 
freedom of assembly, and freedom to petition their Government for 
a redress of grievances. 

I further refuse to answer this question on the grounds that this 
question is most closely related to the lack of specificity and clarity 
in the authorizing resolution under which this committee operates. 

Further than this, I am refusing to answer on the ground of lack 
of relevancy between this question and the today publicly stated 
purpose of this inquiry and the lack of relevancy between questions 
put to me and that purpose. 

Lastly, I am declining to answer on the ground that under the 
fifth amendment to the Constitution of the United States I may not 
be compelled to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Arens. Now, sir, I display to you a thermofax reproduction 
of the announcement of the Chicago Workers School, South Side 
Branch, in which certain classes are scheduled and in which the 
professors, the instructors, are listed. On Wednesday according to 
this schedule of classes of the South Side Branch, a number of persons 
are listed here as the professors and on Thui-sday there is to be an 
"Institute on General Crisis of Capitalism," and the teacher there, 
the instructor, is Leon Katzen. 

Kindly look at this document which I display to you now and tell 
this committee whether or not that refreslies your recollection and 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 545 

whether or not you are the Leon Katzen who was the instructor at 
the Chicago Workere School ? 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. Let the record show that witness and his counsel 
are examining the document referred to by committee counsel. 

Mr. IvATZEN. Mr. Chairman, among the many grounds which I 
have cited for my refusal to answer earlier questions, was one which 
I shall be very happy to repeat and that is the lack of pertmency 
and relevancy. 

If my glasses are properly shined up, it appears to me that this or 
the original of this was published 10 years ago. I cannot see how 
even if this were in fact a facsimile reproduction of an original which 
in fact did exist, how it could possibly have any pertinency or rele- 
vancy either to this hearing or to me. 

Secondly, I see nothing about the identification of a workers school 
which would, in fact, establish that such a workers school existed. I 
understand that there are printing processes whereby these things 
can be reproduced in wholesale without any date or any type of copy 
on them. 

However, further than this, I should like to state as my original 
grounds for refusing to answer this question, those which I have al- 
ready in addition cited, that is, in addition to the one concerning the 
lack of relevancy and pertinency. 

(Document marked "Katzen Exhibit No. 2" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Do you presently, this instant, have information re^ 
specting the techniques, strategy, and operation of the Communist 
conspiracy in the greater Chicago area ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. Let us proceed. Do you wish to decline to answer 
that question ? 

Mr. Katzen. Mr. Chairman, I am sorry. Either I have lost the 
question or I have 

Mr. Moulder. There is a question pending. 

Mr. I^TZEN. Was the last a question on the part of- 



Mr. Arens. Yes. The question is, do you, this instant, have in- 
formation respecting the operation in the greater Chicago area pres- 
ently of the Communist Party and the Communist conspiratorial 
operation ? 

Mr. Katzen. Sir, I must refuse to answer that question on the 
grounds that it tends to violate the guarantees provided by the first 
amendment to the Constitution of the United States. I must fur- 
ther refuse to answer this question on the grounds that it flows from 
the general, nebulous procedure employed in a tenuous resolution 
upon which this committee has been functioning, which is so lacking 
in boundaiy and clarity as to be meaningless and unanswerable; on 
the grounds of lack of relevancy and pertmency ; and on the grounds 
that there is a lack of specific jurisdiction on the part of this commit- 
tee; and- lastly on the grounds that the Constitution of the United 
States in its fifth amendment provides me the privilege of refusing 
to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 



546 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Moulder. I do not want to prolong the hearing. I should 
have asked this in the beginning. We did not have the opportunity^ to 
go into this matter because your innnediate reaction to any question 
was with a preconceived or determined intention of not answering any 
questions. But I do not believe these questions were asked of you, 
and I am sure the committee would like to know. Do you reside here 
in Chicago ? 

Mr. lO^TZEN. Sir, the record already bears, I believe, my earlier 
statement in answer to the question of Mr. Arens, that I am a resi- 
dent of the city of Chicago. 

Mr. Moulder. Were you born and reared here ? 

Mr. Katzen. Sir, I must refuse to answer that question upon ex- 
actly the same grounds upon which I refused to answer all other 
questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Willis ? 

Any questions, Mr. Johansen ? 

The committee will recess until 2 o'clock. 

(Subcommittee members present: Kepresentatives Moulder, Wil- 
lis, and Johansen.) 

(Whereupon, the subcommittee recessed at 12:15 p.m., to recon- 
vene at 2 p.m. of the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION, TUESDAY, MAY 5, 1959 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will come to order. 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Moulder, Willis, 
and Johansen.) 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Arens, the staff director for the committee, will 
call the next witness, please. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Richard Criley, please come forward. Please re- 
main standing while the chairman administers an oath. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you 
are about to give before this subcommittee will be the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Criley. I so swear. 

TESTIMONY OF RICHARD CRILEY, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
IRVING G. STEINBERG 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

Mr. Criley. Richard Criley, 709 South Spaulding Street, Chicago 
24. 

Mr. Arens. And your occupa,tion, please, sir? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. My ancestor, Childs Corey, died in Salem, Massachu- 
setts, in the year 1692, a victim of the Salem witch hunt. Mr. Arens, 
I think you can understand if my family has a long aversion to witch 
hunts of any kind and also if it is an article of faith in my family to 
believe in tlie Bill of Rights, I cannot in conscience encourage a 
further erosion of the Bill of Rights by answering your question. 

Mr. Moulder, Tlie witness is directed to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 547 

Mr, Criley. I am consulting with counsel, sir. It is irrelevant. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. The question is, What is your occupation? 

Mr. Criley. First of all, in refusing to answer that question, I want 
to give my reasons for so refusing. A subpena was issued to me on 
April 30. I was not given a copy of the rules of this committee nor 
any statement of the legislative purpose of this committee. I believe, 
therefore, that that subpena is invalid and in view of this I am not 
obligated to answer any questions of the committee. 

Further, I believe that my being called here and the question asked 
me is a violation of my rights under the first amendment which states 
that Congress may make no laws abridging freedom of religion, free- 
dom of speech, press, assembly, or the right to petition the Govern- 
ment for redress of grievances. 

Third, this committee lacks what might be called a legal mandate to 
function, as was pointed out in the Watkins decision of the Supreme 
Court. ^ 

The Constitution of the United States, Article I, states that the job 
of Congress is to legislate. Article II states that the job of the Ex- 
ecutive is assigned to the President. Article III states that the job 
of the Judiciary is assigned to the Supreme Court and inferior Fed- 
eral courts. 

The mandate of this committee is so sreneral as to be meaningless 
m the words of Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren. It think it is 
clear that the meaning of "un-American" is subject to all manner of 
interpretation. 

Mr. Truman on April 30 in a lecture before Columbia University 
stated that the most un-American thing in the United States is the 
House Un-American iVctivities Committee. If one were to accept 
Mr. Truman's construction of the word "un-American," then this 
committee would properly be investigating itself. 

I am sure that you gentlemen place a different construction upon 
the word. But I state this only to illustrate the fact that legally one 
can have no clear idea as to what is intended by "un-American ac- 
tivities" and that there is, therefore, no legal mandate from the Con- 
gress of the United States to this committee to conduct this hearing. 

Further, I would like to ask Mr. Arens for a copy of the statement 
which he has introduced, I believe, into the record of this hearing 
with the previous witness. 

Mr. Arens. W^e will supply that to you right now. It is being 
supplied to you right now. 

( A document was handed to the witness. ) 

Mr. Arens. Does that complete your answer, sir? 

Mr. Criley. It does not complete my answer. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly proceed. 

Mr. Criley. I am sorry. I was asking for Exhibit 1. I received 
a copy of the statement of purposes of the committee. Needless to 
say, I have had no opportunity to read this statement. 

I would like to ask Mr. Arens again if I may have what has been 
introduced into this hearing as Exhibit 1. 

Mr. Arens. At an appropriate time we are going to display that 
to you. 

Would you please answer the question ? 



548 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Criley. I would like to have that statement because it has the 
bearing on the heart of the legal reason I am going to give for my 
refusal to answer your question. I again request that Mr. Arens give 
me a copy of Exhibit 1. 

Mr. Arens. At an appropriate time I am going to display it to 
you, if you will kindly answer the question now as to your occupation. 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Chairman, my legal defense is based upon that 
document, and I request that you instruct Mr. Arens to let me have 
a copy of the document. 

Mr. Arens. We will interrupt your train of thought, if j^ou do not 
mind, to present this to you. 

(A document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Arens, I am stating my legal reasons for refusing 
to answer your question. 

Mr. Moulder. Just a minute. This is an introductory question 
asked you. You have given your name. The next question was to 
state your occupation. You conferred with your attorney, who sits 
beside you, and advised with him, and now you have made a long 
argun:ient to state much of which is no valid reason whatsoever for 
declining to answer the question. But we have been very tolerant in 
giving you plenty of time. Now you are directed to answer the ques- 
tion. You have refused and declined to answer it. 
. Mr. Arens, proceed with the next question. 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Moulder, may I state for the record of this hearing 
that I have been cut off and have been prevented from stating my 
legal reasons for refusing to answer the question which I was under 
direction 

Mr. Moulder. You are making a vexatious delay and dilatory argu- 
ment and statement. 

Proceed with the next question. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Criley, you are represented by counsel in this 
proceeding today ? 

Mr. Criley. Yes, I am represented by counsel. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, would you kindly identify yourself on this 
record ? 

Mr. Steinberg. My name is Irving G. Steinberg, 180 West Wash- 
ington. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Criley, you said a few moments ago you were 
vigorously opposed to witch hunts ; is that correct ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. Yes. I said I was opposed to witch hunts of all kinds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you taken a position with reference to witch 
hunting or characterized the present proceedings as witch hunting? 
These hearings here today, have you characterized those as witch 
hunting ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. I am going to decline to answer that question first of 
all on the basis that the question itself has no valid legislative pur- 
pose in connection with any purpose which this committee may have. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the wit- 
ness be ordered and directed to answer that question or to invoke his 
constitutional privileges for the reason that he instigated this line 
of inquiry by protesting what he has characterized as witch hunts. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 549 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. The witness is directed to answer the question 
in order to test your good faith in claiming the reason which you 
stated for declining to answer the question. 

Mr. Criley. May I ask that that question be reread by the clerk? 

Mr. Arens. I will give you the essence of the question. Have you 
taken a position in the recent past, characterizing the instant pro- 
ceedings here before this committee now as witch hunts ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. I am going to decline to answer that question, first of 
all, on the grounds that I believe that this question, in particular, 
is a direct violation of my rights under the first amendment to free- 
dom of speech; secondly, that this committee lacks a valid mandate; 
thirdly, for a reason that the subpena and the calling of me is not 
pertinent to the purposes of this investigation, as I will show that 
this question itself has no pertinency or relevancy to a subject of legis- 
lation before this committee. And I would like to explain to the 
committee why my being called here is precisely a violation of what 
Mr. Justice Warren in the Watkins decision said may not be done. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed with the next question. Now wait 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Warren 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Criley, I display to you 

Mr. Criley. May I say for the record- 



Mr. Arens. Mr. Criley, you have invoked your reasons here. 

Mr, Criley. I have not. My reasons 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you an original document which has been 
identified on this record as a document distributed by the Chicago 
Committee to Defend Democratic Rights, the executive secretary of 
which is listed on the document as Richard Criley. The document 
itself proclaims that these instant proceedings are witch hunts and 
questions the motives of the committee and attacks the committee. 

Would you kindly look at this document and tell this committee 
now, while you are under oath, in view of your adamant position 
against witch hunts whether or not you are the Richard Criley whose 
name appears here as the executive secretary of the Chicago Commit- 
tee to Defend Democratic Rights ? 

( A document was handed to the witness. ) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. Let the record show that the committee counsel 
handed the document referred to, to the witness and the witness then, 
in turn, is examining the document. 

Mr. Criley. May I call to the attention of the committee that on 
two occasions I have attempted to state my legal reasons for declining 
to answer previous questions and that in both instances I have been 
stopped from presenting my legal reasons for not answering the ques- 
tions. And I want to make sure that this is a matter of the record 
of this committee hearing. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question ? Are you the 
Richard Criley who is listed here on this document as executive secre- 
tary of the Chicago Committee to Defend Democratic Rights ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. I should like to read this letter around which appar- 
ently a number of questions 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question ? 

41635—59 4 



550 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Chairman, I respectfully sutjjEjest. the witness be admonished to 
answer the question. It is clear that the question is a pertinent ques- 
tion, is a proper question, is within the scope of inquiry of this com- 
mittee, and the witness has yet to give us a direct answer. 

Mr. Criley. I have not yet been given the opportunity to cite my 
legal rights for refusing to answer and these are very relevant to this 
document, Exhibit 1, which I asked for previously. 

Now, may I state my legal reasons for not answering the question 
just asked me by counsel and be permitted to give my legal reasons 
for so doing ? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes, you have that right. But let us not be dilatory 
or proceed to harass the committee and try to prevent a situation of 
vexatious delay of our proceedings. You can decline to answer by 
giving valid reasons for not answering. 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Moulder, I am not a lawyer. I came here by your 
invitation, not mine. I am stating to the very level best of my ability 
what I believe are valid, legal reasons for not answering this com- 
mittee. 

Now if I may be permitted to proceed, I want to read this letter 
because it is of cardinal importance to me that this be into the court 
record, because my statement hinges upon the contents of this letter. 

Mr. ]\IouLDER. Wait just a minute. If you answer the question, 
identify the document, then read the letter. Is that your signature? 
Are you the person referred to on the document ? If you so identify 
it, read it. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. I will identify the signature on this document as my 
signature. 

Mr. Moulder. All right. Then read the document. 

Mr. Arens. Are you the executive secretary 

Mr. Criley. I was instructed by the chairman, Mr. Arens, that I 
may read the document. 

Mr. Moulder. Let him read the document after he identified it. He 
said he signed it. I think that is fair enough, 

Mr. Criley. The head of this document reads : "Chicago Commit- 
tee To Defend Democratic Rights. Legislative Bulletin." 

Headline: "House Un-American Activities Committee, Chicago 
Hearing, Set for May 5-6." 

The Un-Americans are at it again ! Two groups of Chicago unionists have 
been subpoenaed to appear before it on May 5 and B. They include members 
and former members of the United Packinghouse Worliers of America and of 
Local #113 (Tool and Die) of the International Association of Machinists. 
Additional unionists may still be called at a later date. 

It is clear that the House Un-American Activities Committee hearing is a 
direct intervention into the internal affairs of labor. 

The House Committee .(whose general mandate to function was questioned 
by the U.S. Supreme Court) has no specific authorization from Congress to 
conduct such a hearing as that scheduled here. It is evident, also, that there 
can be no legitimate legislative purpose for this hearing. On both counts, 
the entire hearing is patently illegal, on the basis of the Supreme Court decision 
in the Watkins case which stated that the Committee has no right to expose 
"for sake of exjtosure." 

Chairman Walter's public statement that the hearing is for the purpose of 
"investigating subversive infiltration" into defense industries is camouflage for 
a flagrant attack on unions and the constitutional rights of American workers. 
It will be recalled that the last "labor investigation" of the Committee in this 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES^ — CHICAGO 551 

area was in 1952 wheu it was timed to disrupt tlie strilce of International 
Harvester workers and the negotiations for a new contract in the meat packing 
industry. 

The House Committee has just completed a witch-hunt against labor in the 
I'irtsburgh area. In February in Los Angeles under guise of investigating 
"legal subversion," it unfolded an attack on defense attorneys in civil liberties 
cases, and on the constitutional right to be represented by counsel. In Atlanta, 
Georgia, last year, the Committee was denounced by over 200 prominent Negro 
leaders in the South for "trying to attach the 'subversive' label to any liberal 
white Southerner who dares to raise his voice in support of our democratic 
ideals." 

The recent actions of the House Un-American Activities Committee are the 
most potent ax-gument for its abolition, and the cutting ofC of all further 
appropriations. (For 1959, it has already been voted $327,000 by the House of 
Representatives. ) 

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR ACTION 

1. Write your Congressman to support the bill introduced by Representative 
James Roosevelt to abolish the House Un-American Activities Committee. 

2. See and judge for yourself by attending the hearings on May 5 and 6 at the 
Federal Building (Old Post Office) , Clark and Adams Sts. 

Sincerely yours, 

Leon Katzen, Chairman 

Richard Criley, Executive Secretary 

Mr. Akens. He has not completed yet. 

Mr. Criley. There is a note on the bottom "PS : We depend on your 
contributions." I think that was relevant to the point I wanted to 
make. 

(Document previously marked "Nelson Exhibit No. 1" also appears 
on p. 521.) 

Mr. Moulder. Just one moment. Speaking for myself and the 
members of the committee, we want to make the record clear here and 
now that our committee is not endeavoring to investigate or meddle in 
union organizations as such. 

I have, for my record in Congress, almost a 100 percent voting record 
for organized labor, and I am enthusiastic and strong for organized 
labor and its objectives and its rights. But we are interested in find- 
ing out how the Communists are trying to dominate and destroy organ- 
ized labor wherever they may be attempting to do so. That is one of 
the purposes, one of the objectives of our hearings here in Chicago. 

Mr. Criley. May I continue my legal i-easons for refusal to answer ? 
You are finished, Mr. Chairman, yes ? 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed. 

Mr. Criley. I would like to submit in evidence four slips. They 
are statements of mailing matter for permit mail from the Chicago 
post ofHce. First one is dated April 14, 1959, and records that 3,100 
pieces of mail were mailed on that date. The second one, dated April 
15, records 1,500 pieces of mail were mailed on that date. The third is 
dated April 16 and records that 1,115 pieces were mailed on that date. 
The fourth is April 17 and records, that 1,800 pieces of mail were 
mailed on that date. I would like to submit this as an exhibit before 
i\\^ com.mittee, if I may. 

Now, the relevance of this is precisely the following : I was served 
with a subpena. 

Mr, Moulder. What is the question pending ? 

Mr. Criley. I am giving legal reason for not answering. 

Mr, Arens, The pending question is whether he is the executive 
secretary of the Chicago Committee To Defend Democratic Rights. 



552 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

I was under the impression he said a few minutes ago this was his 
signature as executive secretary. So he has answered the question. 

Mr. Moulder. Proceed with the next question. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Mr. Leon Katzen, chairman of the group 
of which you are executive secretary ? 

Mr. Criley. May I again call to the attention of the chairman that 
I was still attempting to cite the legal reasons for refusal to answer 
from the very first question in this hearing that I did not answer, 
and 

Mr. Moulder. What question was that ? 

Mr. Criley. The first question I did not answer was my occupation. 
I was never given an opportunity to give my legal reasons of refusing 
to answer that question. This was what I was attempting to do when 
Mr. Arens interrupted me. 

Mr. Moulder. You spent 10 minutes on that and were getting ready 
to read at great length a Supreme Court decision which is out of 
order in these proceedings or hearings. 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Chairman 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Criley, did you prepare this document which you 
have just read? 

Mr. Criley. May I state it takes me 15 minutes to state my legal 
ground. I am possibly putting at stake a year of my life and I 
believe I must be entitled to fully state my legal grounds why I am 
refusing. May I continue where I left off ? 

Mr. Arens. You satisfied the committee on your answer. We are 
thoroughly satisfied. 

Mr. Criley. I am not satisfied in my answer because in the record 
I have not yet stated my legal reasons for not answering the first two 
questions which I did not answer. 

Mr. Moulder. We are not going to permit you to make a big, long 
speech before this committee. 

Mr. Arens. Did you prepare the document, from which you just 
read, of the Chicago Committee to Defend Democratic Eights ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. To save some time, I have not been directed to answer 
that question, so I am not answering. 

Mr. Moulder. All right. You are now hereby directed to answer 
the question, 

Mr. Criley. I am not going to answer that question and I would 
like to continue my discussion to give my legal reasons as to why I 
am not answering. I pointed out that these slips, with the dates 
running from April 14 to 17, represent the mailing of approximately 
8,000 copies of this leaflet to which my signature is affixed. I was 
served on April 30 with a subpena dated April 24. This subpena 
is at least 4 weeks after all of the other subpenas were served. Only 
two subpenas were served, to the best of my knowledge, or were issued 
after the end of the month of March. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Criley 

Mr. Criley. I am not 

Mr. Moulder. That isn't responsive to the question as a reason for 
refusing to answer at all. 

Mr. Criley. I wish to say and these are grounds that are veiy 
clearly borne out in the Watkins decision, Mr. Chairman, because I 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 553 

wish to explain why I am contending that my subpena is a complete 
afterthought to the purpose of this committee, which was announced 
as being an investigation in certain industrial areas. I have no con- 
nection with such areas and have not had any experience as an active 
imionist for a period of over 12 years, and I wish to point out 

Mr. Moulder. You are being argumentative, that is all. 

Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. I suggest now I make a brief statement as to pertinence 
so there will be no question on this record as to the pertinency of 
these questions. 

Mr. Criley, as announced by the chairman of this committee, this 
committee is in Chicago for the purpose of develoj)ing factual ma- 
terial on current Communist techniques and activities, including, but 
not limited to, the Commmiist penetration of the meatpacking indus- 
try. A man this morning took an oath, laid his liberty on the line, 
and said that while he was a member of the Communist conspira- 
torial apparatus, he knew you, sir, as a member of the Communist 
Party. We have information, sir, that you are now, and have been 
in the recent past, a hard-core member of the Communist conspiracy, 
doing work of that conspiracy designed to overthrow the Constitu- 
tion which you have been invoking- here today; that you have been 
part of this deadly apparatus, which is designed to destroy liberty 
and freedom on this continent. 

Therefore, sir, with that information in the possession of this com- 
mittee, the committee directed that a subpena be served upon you so 
that you could be interrogated. We hoped that certain information 
could be developed on this record — by direction, and if not by direc- 
tion, by indirection — so that this committee could take this informa- 
tion back to Washington, D.C., together with other information it 
is collecting in other parts of the United States respecting this con- 
spiratorial operation, so that it might legislate to protect this country 
against the Communist conspiracy of which we understand you are 
now, this instant, an integral part. 

Now, sir, would you kindly answer this question ? Are you now, 
this moment, a member of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. I would again like to point out for the committee 
record that I have not yet been given an opportunity to summarize 
the legal reasons why I have refused to answer certain questions, and 
I believe that these are my rights before the committee. I am being 
cut off. My train of thought is being interrupted. I have almost no 
idea as to what legal rights I have been able to state before the com- 
mittee at the present time. And I would like to ask leave of this 
committee to finish my statement, which will not be a lengthy one, but 
which I believe is absolutely essential and is my right as an American 
citizen to so state before this committee. 

Mr. Moulder. You have heard the question propounded by counsel. 
You are directed to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. The question is, Are you now, this minute, a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 



554 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Crilet, Mr. Chairman, I am going to refuse to answer that 
question for the legal reasons that the question is a violation of my 
right under the first amendment ; for the reason that the mandate of 
this committee is not a legal one; for the reason that my subpena 
is not a valid one, that I was called before this committee in almost 
the identical fashion cited by the Supreme Court which said : "Inves- 
tigations conducted solely for the personal aggrandizement of the 
investigators or to punish those investigated are indefensible." 

I have attempted to show that my subpena, together with that of 
one other person who was on the stand here, is a complete exception 
to all other subpenas that were issued ; that the subpena was for the 
expressed purpose of punishing someone who issued a statement criti- 
cal of this committee; that, therefore, the committee does not have 
the legal right to ask me these questions, since the purpose of the 
committee is not that of legislation as outlined by the Constitution, 
but one of harassing and attempting to punish a critic of this 
committee. 

I wish to also state here that all of these things I have cited flow 
from the due process clause of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Carl Nelson? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question ? Sir, do you 
know a man by the name of Carl Nelson ? 

Mr. Crilet. May I consult with counsel ? 

Mr, Moulder. Yes. 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Chairman, am I instructed to answer that question ? 

Mr. Moulder. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Crilet. I am going to refuse to answer that question on the 
grounds that the question is entirely irrelevant, and I believe the word 
is "is not pertinent" to the legislative purposes of this committee; 
for the reasons also that it is a violation of my rights under the first 
amendment; for the additional' reason that the committee's mandate 
to function is not a legal one ; for the additional reason that the sub- 
penaing of me was both not done in a legal manner and was not done to 
further a legitimate, legislative purpose by this committee; for the 
reason that I think I stated, that tlie question is not germane or perti- 
nent to legislation ; for the additional reason that the committee is not 
a legal committee, because functioning with the committee, for in- 
stance, is a Mr. Willis who, under the fourteenth and thirteenth 
amendment, is not constitutionally elected to office in view of the well 
known denial of the rights to vote by the Negro citizens of his State. 
For those reasons I am going to refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Willis. Let me say, Mr. Chairman, I am not replying to the 
witness. I am not asking him a question. I do not want to engage in 
a discussion with him. But in my district, the people I am sent to 
Washington to represent, the eight parishes that I represent, every- 
one who is entitled to vote, does vote, under identical and similar 
circumstances. 

Mr. Arens. This morning Mr. Carl Nelson took an oath before 
this committee and stated that he served in the Communist Party 
for a number of years; that the Communist Party is now a greater 
menace tlian ever before ; that it consists of trained, hard-core agents 
of a foreign power on American soil. Wliile he was under oath, sub- 
jecting himself to prosecution for perjiuy if he stated a falsehood^ 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 555 

he stated that he knew you, to a certainty, as a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 

We would like to afford you now an opportunity to deny that iden- 
tification, if you please, sir. 

Mr. Criley. I believe 

Mr. Arens. Do you care to avail yourself of that opportunity ? 

Mr. Criley. I believe Mr. Nelson's statement was that he left the 
Communist Party some 15 years or more ago. And I would like to 
state that it seems to me that any such testimony is so remote as to 
be completely irrelevant to any present purposes of legislation before 
Congress at the present time. 

Mr. Moulder. I don't believe that is correct. I believe you have 
misunderstood his testimony. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Criley, do you know a man by the name of Louis 
Rosser ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. Am I directed to answer that question ? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes, you are directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Criley. I shall refuse to answer the question because the ques- 
tion is totally remote, has no pertinence whatsoever to any legislative 
puii^ose that this committee may have; for the reason that the com- 
mittee itself in subpenaing me has no relationship between my testi- 
mony and the testimony of other witnesses who seemingly have some 
relationship to what was stated to have been the purpose of these com- 
mittee hearings. For the reason of my rights of freedom of speech, 
freedom of assembly, freedom of press, and freedom to petition the 
Government for redress of grievances under the first amendment ; and 
for all other reasons which I have stated, and, by the way, all of these 
as they relate to the due process clause of the fifth amendment, I am 
refusing to answer that question. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Arens, may I interrupt at this point to ask the 
witness this question : Do you have any knowledge or information 
concerning the activities of any person which you deem to be subver- 
sive or which endangers our internal sex?urity in the United States ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Chairman, in my opinion there are some people who 
are seriously endangering the security of the United States. At the 
moment I would place at Number 1 certain of the generals and other 
people who are conducting a diplomacy backed by the threat to destroy 
the entire world with atomic weapons. I would also state that the 
democratic and constitutional Government of the United States today 
faces a very serious threat, flowing as it does from certain groups and 
includes highly influential persons who are attempting to undertake a 
campaign of pressure of legislative action and other things to, so to 
speak, curb and get the powers of the United States Supreme Court, 
which have been exercised as perhaps the most important single 
guarantee that the Bill of Rights written into the United States 
Constitution shall remain as our guiding light in democratic gov- 
ernment. 

Mr. Moulder. All right. Do you have any information concerning 
the activities of any Communist Party members whose actions and 
activities endanger, or might endanger, the internal security of the 
United States? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



556 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Moulder. And I might add our American way of life and our 
constitutional form of government. 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Chairman, I know of no such people endangering 
the American way of life. 

Mr. Moulder. You don't know of any Communists ? 

Mr. Criley. You are asking — and let me make sure I understand the 
question — if I know any Communists who in my opinion are endanger- 
ing the American way of life and subverting the American democratic 
system, shall we say ? My answer is no. 

Mr. Moulder. That you do not know. 

Mr. Criley. I do not know any such people who are endangering 
the American way of life or subverting the American democratic 
process. 

Mr. Moulder. That is, any such people who are members of the 
Communist Party. That was my question. 

Mr. Criley. That is correct. Of course you are consulting me in 
terms of what my opinion is. 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. 

Mr. Criley. And this is my honest opinion, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. I am asking if you have any information which you 
might give us of Communist Party members' activities which would 
endanger our American way of life, our internal security, or whose 
activities would be subversive. You say you 4o not know ? 

Mr. Criley. No, I do not. 

Mr. M0U1.DER. All right. Now, then, do you know any Communist 
Party members who are active in any way in the upholding of the 
American way of life or our democracy or our Bill of Rights that 
you have referred to ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Chairman, if I knew of such cases where there were 
Communists' activity in upholding, let us say, the Bill of Rights and 
the American way of life, clearly such activities are legal and are 
legally protected by the Bill of Rights, and therefore I cannot see 
that the question bears any relevance to the legislative purpose of this 
committee. 

Mr. Moulder. Then the last question is. Do you know of any Com- 
munists, active Communist Party members in the Chicago area? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Chairman, I believe again that this question moves 
into an area which invades the guarantees of the first amendment, 
guaranteeing freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, freedom of 
press, and the right to petition for — the microphone is off. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you have any information concerning the objec- 
tives of Communist Party activities and infiltration of Communist 
Party propaganda in labor unions within the area of Chicago? 

Mr. Criley. I didn't finish. 

Mr. Moulder. I am asking do you have any such information, do 
you know about it ? 

Mr. Criley. The microphone is dead, Mr. Chairman, and in the 
course of it, I am afraid I missed the key part of your question, but I 
would like to state for the record that I did not complete my previous 
answer and this disturbed me a bit so that I didn't follow the second 
question that you asked me. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 557 

Mr. Moulder. The second question ? 

Mr. Criley. The question you just asked me, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. The second question I just asked you — now, you un- 
dei-stand these questions and you know what we are avSking — was 
whether you have any information concerning Communist infiltra- 
tion and Communist Party activities in any labor union within the 
Chicago area. What we are trying to find out particularly at this 
hearing is the activities and the work of the Communist Party to in- 
filtrate and dominate and destroy organized labor in the Chicago area. 
Now, do you have any such information ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. I am sorry, sir. It seems to me that there were several 
different questions involved in one. 

Mr. Moulder. Just a very simple question. Do you have any knowl- 
edge or information concerning Communist Party activities in their 
efforts to infiltrate and dominate a labor union, any labor union, in 
the Chicago area ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Moulder. That requires just a simple yes or no answer. 

Mr. Criley. Shall I proceed without the microphone ? 

Mr. Moulder. You do know or don't know. 

Mr. Criley. Should I proceed without the microphone ? It is off. 

Mr. Chairman, the question may be clear and yet there is involved 
a question of what we might call semantics, because the word in- 
filtrate, like the word American or un-American, is subject to a multi- 
tude of interpretations. 

Mr. Moulder. All right. Let us make it simple, then. Leave out 
infiltration. I think you understand what I mean. Then I will ask 
you if you have any knowledge or information whatsoever concerning 
Communist Party leaders, Communists, in other words, any informa- 
tion concerning their efforts to dominate and control the functions of 
any labor union in the Chicago area. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Chairman, I am bothered by this thing. 

Mr. Moulder. We can hear you clear enough. The reporter can 
hear you. First, it just calls for a very simple answer, yes or no, and 
then we will proceed from there. 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Chairman, it isn't so simple because I cannot in 
conscience answer that question because, in my opinion, it is a vague 
question, a question that does not have a clear, legitimate purpose. 

Mr. Moulder Let's proceed, Mr. Arens, with the next question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Criley, have you been an author in the course of your 
career ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

(Representative Moulder left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Willis (presiding) . What is the pending question ? 

Mr. Criley. I believe the question was asked of you, Mr. Arens. 
Wliat is the pending question ? 

Mr. Arens. The pending question is. Have you ever been an author 
in the course of your career ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



558 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Criley. Will the record show, by the way, that Mr. Moulder has 
left and that the Chair has been taken by Mr. Willis and that one of 
the members of the subcommittee is absent ? 

Mr. JoHANSKisr. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that the Chair direct the 
witness to answer the question and that the instructions to the re- 
porter be given by the Chair. 

Mr. Willis. I must order you to answer the question. 

Mr. Criley. I must refuse, sir, to answer that question, first of all, 
because I cannot see any conceivable relationship between whether 
or not I have been an author. 

Mr. Arens. Let us hesitate. I will display to you an exhibit. 

Mr. Criley. And the legislative purpose of this committee. I also 
wish to cite a fact that this is, I think, a clear-cut invasion of my right 
under the first amendment to freedom of the press, in other Avords, to 
write and publish as I so choose. I cannot see how tliis can, by any 
stretch of the imagination, be made a proper subject matter for a 
question to guide the committee for the purposes of making or seeing 
about the execution of laws. 

Mr. Willis. You properly invoked your right. 

Mr. Criley. I would also 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Criley, you have been identified by a live 
witness under oath before this committee as a member of the Com- 
munist Party. I have in my hand now a document "Inform or Els^^." 
The document says, "This pamphlet was written for the James Keller 
Defense Committee by Richard L, Criley." 

For the purpose of ascertaining what your activities may have been 
in the dissemination and preparation of Communist propaganda, so 
that this committee can adequtaely appraise the administration and 
operation of the Internal Security Act of 1950, which undertakes to 
cope with Communists and Communist propaganda, I now lay before 
you this document and ask you whether or not you are the Richard L. 
Criley who prepared the document entitled "Inform or Else." 

(Document handed the witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Arens, may I have a glass of water ? If the micro- 
phone is not working it is a little harder on my voice. 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir ; you surely may. 

Mr. Criley. And counsel would like a glass of water, too. 

Mr. Arens. Now, would you kindly answer the question ? 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Chairman, this pamphlet that has been brought to 
my attention signed by Richard L. Criley, deals with the supervisory 
parole phase of the Walter-McCarran law. The pamphlet was highly 
critical of this law, which by coincidence is a piece of legislation very 
dear to the chairman of this committee, Mr. Francis Walter. And I 
point to the very question as illustrating the validity of my refusal to 
answer previous questions, in that the entire calling of me on this 
witness stand becomes more and more clearly an act of harassment, be- 
cause I have been a critic of this committee, of the Walter-McCarran 
law, and other things which Mr. Francis Walter does not agree with 
me. 

I am., therefore, going to be compelled to refuse to answer the ques- 
tion on the grounds that the questions are being not asked for a legis- 
lative purpose at all, but are clearly intended as a harassment and 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 559 

punishment of a critic of this committee and of Mr. Walter, and for 
all of the other reasons which I have cited before which I will gladly 
repeat if there is any question of the court record. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I insist that the record be clear on one 
point. 

Are you, in response to the question w^hich is last outstanding re- 
specting your authorship of this pamphlet, invoking that part of the 
fifth amendment to the Constitution of the United States which gives 
you the privilege of declining to give testimony which might be used 
to incriminate yourself ? 

Mr. Criley. Mr, Arens, I think I stated quite clearly before — but 
I shall gladly repeat it again — that I am invoking the due process 
clause of the fifth amendment as it relates to the several different 
grounds that I have given before for refusal to answer, all of which 
are based upon the Watkins decision of the United States Supreme 
Court. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest, so that 
this record may be abundantly clear, that the witness not having in- 
voked that part of the Constitution which gives him the privilege not 
to give testimony which can be used against himself in a criminal 
proceeding now be ordered to answer the question. 

Mr. Willis. I order you to answer the question, and I will tell you 
why. I disagree with the constitutional grounds that you referred to. 
I do not want to debate on it. I am bound as chairman under court 
decisions to indicate our disagreement. Now, you have not, as coun- 
sel pointed out, invoked the provisions of the fifth amendment with 
regard to giving testimony that might tend to incriminate you. As I 
understand it, you have not invoked that, is that correct ? 

Mr. Criley. Mr. Willis, you are correct ; and as a leader of the Civil 
Liberties organization, I also want to make it clear that it is not the 
purpose of debate with the ^iews on constitutionality of the committee, 
but rather my desire to try to make the record clear as to what con- 
stitutional grounds upon which I am standing in my refusal to an- 
swer these questions. I would therefore like to have your permission 
to, as briefly and concisely as possible, state them again. Because of 
t.he many interruptions before, I am not surt how clearly I outlined 
them and, not being a lawyer, do not know if I cited all the grounds. 

Mr. Willis. You stated them so clearly that both counsel and I got 
the point. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the docu- 
ment which I have displayed to this witness, entitled "Inform or 
Else," in which it says, "This pamphlet was written for the James 
Keller Defense Committee by Richard L. Criley," be appropriately 
marked and be incorporated by reference in this record so that this 
committee, when it returns to Washington with this fund of informa- 
tion, will be able to pursue its legislative objectives in undertaking to 
appraise the administration and operation of the Internal Security 
Act, the Communist Control Act, the Foreign Agents Registration 
Act, and other legislation on the books dealing specifically with Com- 
munist propaganda. 

Mr. Willis. The document will be so marked. 

(Document marked "Criley Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 



560 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully su<rgest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

We will take a 5-minute recess. 

(Subcommittee members present, Representatives Willis and Johan- 
sen.) 

Mr. Moulder. Call your next witness, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Leslie Orear, please come forward and remain standing 
while the chairman administers the oath, 

(Mr. Johansen entered the hearing room.) 

( Subcommittee members present : Representatives Moulder, Willis, 
and Johansen.) 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about 
to give before this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing^but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Orear. I do, Mr. Congressman. 

Mr. Moulder. Be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF LESLIE OEEAR, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BELEOED V. LAWSON, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Orear. My name is Leslie Orear. I live at 10931 Hermosa 
Avenue, Chicago, 111. I am an employee of the United Packinghouse 
Workers of America in the capacity of director of its department of 
publications. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Orear, you are appearing today in response to a 
subpena which was served upon you by this committee ? 

Mr. Orear. I am. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Orear. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Lawson. I am Belf ord Lawson, Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Orear, how long have you maintained your present 
position ? 

Mr. Orear. Precisely since January 1957. 

Mr. Arens. And what are your duties ? 

Mr. Orear. I am the editor of the national publication of this union. 

Mr. Arens. And the name of it, please, sir ? 

Mr. Orear. Is The Packinghouse Worker. 

Mr. Arens. And what was your occupation immediately prior to 
your present occupation ? 

Mr. Orear. What would "immediately prior" be — ^you mean just 
before I assumed that title ? 

Mr. Arens. Just before you assumed this job in 1957 as director of 
publications of United Packinghouse Workers. 

Mr. Orear. I was acting in the capacity of editor of The Packing- 
house Worker. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time did you hold that position ? 

Mr. Orear. Since approximately October 1953. 

Mr. Arens. And what was your position prior to that ? 

Mr. Orear. I was an international representative of the union. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 561 

Mr. Arens. And for what period of time did you serve in that 
capacity ? 

Mr. Orear. If we may use the thing loosely I have been a representa- 
tive of the imion since October 1938. We will come to the point. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, sir, just a word about your per- 
sonal life. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Orear. I was born May 11, 1911 in Marshall, Missouri. 

Mr. Arens. And give us a word about your education. 

Mr, Orear. I have been educated in the city of Chicago, and for 2 
years at the University of Wisconsin. 

Mr. Arens. When did you complete vour formal education ? 

Mr. Orear. This would be 1931. 

Mr. Arens. And what occupation were you engaged in between 1931 
and 1938 when you became an international representative of the 
UPWA? 

Mr. Orear. I was an employee of Armour Co. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity, please ? 

Mr. Orear. A laborer. 

Mr. Arens. Where? 

Mr. Orear. Chicago, 111. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Orear, are you now, or have you ever been, a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Orear. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds 
that to answer it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Orear. I am not, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party any 
time in the course of the last 5 years ? 

Mr. Orear. I must — oh, last 5 years, what date would that be ? 

Mr. Arens. Five years ago, 1954. 

Mr. Orear. The answer 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Orear. No, I have not been a member of the Communist Party 
since 1954. 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Orear. No indeed. 

Mr. Arens. Did you resign technical membership in the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Orear. I decline to answer this question on the grounds to do 
so may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever signed a non-Communist affidavit ? 

Mr. Orear. No, sir ; I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Carl Nelson ? 

Mr. Orear. Yes, I do know Carl Nelson. 

Mr. Arens. Carl Nelson testified this morning that while he was 
a member of the Communist Party he knew you as a member of the 
Communist Party. Was he in error or was he telling the truth ? 

Mr. Orear. I decline to answer this question on the grounds it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party 6 years 
ago? 

Mr. Orear. The precise date, 1953 ? 

Mr, Arens. Yes, sir. 



562 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Orear. I was not a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1952 ^ 

Mr. Orear. No, sir ; I was not. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Orear. Check. If you specify what period of time you are 
speaking of. 

]SIr. Arens. In 1952, during any time, were you a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Orear. At tliis point I will assert the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you broken with the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Orear. I decline to answer the question, sir, on the grounds 
that it may tend to incriminate me. Not being very clear what the 
question is. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now against the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Orear. Yes, I have a strong antipatliy to the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know persons presently in the Chicago area 
who, to your certain knowledge, in 1952 were members of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

]\Ir. Orear. I may ask you to rephrase the question; restate the 
question. 

Mr. Arens. Do you now know the names of persons who live and 
operate in the Chicago area who, to your certain knowledge, were 
members of the Communist Party in 1952 ? 

]Mr. Orear. I decline to answer the question on the grounds that 
to do so may tend to incriminate me. 

]\Ir. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Willis ? 

Mr. Willis. No questions. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. No questions. 

Mr. MoLTLDER. We thank the witness and the counsel for the ap- 
pearance before the committee, and I commend you for your straight- 
forward conduct and response to the questions that were propounded 
to you. 

Mr. Orear. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Next witness. 

Mr. Arens. Next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be Mr. 
Leon Beverly. 

Will you remain standing while the chairman administers an oath. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solenmly swear that the testimony which: 
you are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Beverly. I do. 

Mr. Moulder. Be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF LEON BEVEELY, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BELFORD V. LAWSON, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Beverly. Leon Beverly, 1807 South Harding. I am now field 
representative for United Packinghouse Workers. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you by this committee ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 563 

Mr. Beverly. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Beatsrly. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Lawson. Belf ord V. Lawson, Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Moulder. I didn't understand the witness' name. 

Mr. Beverly. Leon Beverly. 

Mr. Moulder. How do you spell that ? 

Mr. Beverly. L-e-o-n B-e-v-e-r-1-y. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Beverly, how long have you maintained your pres- 
ent job? 

Mr. BE^^RLY. August. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity again ? 

Mr. Beverly. Field representative. 

Mr. Arens. Where are you located ? 

Mr. Bea^erly. 4859 South Wabash. 

Mr. Arens. What was your employment immediately prior to your 
present employment ? 

Mr. Beverly. Full time president of Local 347. 

Mr. Arens. 347 of what? 

Mr. Beverly. United Packinghouse Workers. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time did you have that job ? 

Mr. Beverly. From 1951 up to January of this year. 

Mr. Arens. What was your employment immediately prior to that ? 

Mr. Beverly. Armour Co. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time were you employed at Ar- 
mour & Co. ? 

Mr. Beat3rly. 1937. I am still on leave from Armour Co. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity were you employed there ? 

Mr. Beverly. Laborer. 

jMr. Arens. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Beverly. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Why? 

Mr. Beverly. Based on my previous miderstanding of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com- 
mittee truthfully whether or not you have ever been a member of the 
Communist Party, you would be supplying information that might be 
used against you in a criminal proceeding ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Beverly. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Beverly. No. 

Mr. Arens. Have you resigned technical membership in the Com- 
munist Party so that you could deny membership in the Communist 
Party, yet maintain yourself in the Communist operation? 

Mr. Beverly. I decline to answer that question based on my rights 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Carl Nelson ? 

Mr. Beverly. Sure. 

Mr. Arens. Carl Nelson took an oath this morning and said that 
while he was a member of the Communist Party he knew you as a 



564 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

member of the Communist Party. Was he in error or was he telling 
the truth? 

Mr. Beverly. I decline to answer that question based on my rights 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you presently have information of persons who, in 
the recent past, have been membei-s of the Communist Party active in 
the Chicago area ? 

Mr. Beverly. I don't understand your question. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information now, are you presently pos- 
sessed of information respecting persons who are, or in recent past 
have been, members of the Communist Party in the Chicago area? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Beverly. I have no knowledge. I have no knowledge, sir, to 
my recollection. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know persons who have been members of the 
Communist Party in the Chicago area ? 

Mr. Beverly. I refuse to answer that question based on my rights 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully submit that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. Just a moment, please. Mr. Willis, any questions? 

Mr. Willis. No. 

Mr. Johansen. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder. I also want to commend you and counsel in the 
manner in which you appear before this committee, not that I approve 
or disapprove of your responses to the questions, but you certainly 
have made no effort to delay the proceedings by dilatory speeches and 
statements. 

I also want to say this: That during more than 10 years I have 
served as a member of this committee — and I am sure the other mem- 
bers will concur with me — in spite of the greatest concentrated effort 
on the part of the Communist Party leadership on the Negro race, 
they have had, I would say, a minimum success, if any, and as far as 
our proceedings in hearings have revealed, have had no success what- 
soever in influencing your great race of people. 

Mr. Lawson. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Arens. Next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be Mr. 
Samuel J. Parks, Jr. 

Kindly come forward and remain standing while the chairman 
administers an oath to you. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you 
are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Parks. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF SAMUEL J. PARKS, JR., ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BELFORD V. LAWSON, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Parks. Before you ask any questions there is one question I 
want to know. I received this subpena. Here it is. Also I am losing 
money by being here. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 565 

Mr. Moulder. I am glad you bring that point up. 

Mr. Parks. Let me finish. I got my car over in the garage. Been 
there since 10 o'clock, and they do not charge lightly over there for it. 
You know I just can't afford financial support for sitting here losing 
money and then got to pay out money, you know, to be here. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question ? 

^Ir. Parks, No, I would like to know am I going to be remunerated 
for being here. That is my question. 

Mr. Arens. Would you please answer the question ? 

Mr. Moulder. Wait a minute. We should have announced at the 
end of the testimony of each and every witness who has appeared 
before the committee that they can claim witness fees and should sign 
the vouchers for their attendance and the witness fees, as provided by 
law, after the completion of their testimony. 

Mr. Parks. Thank you. 

Mr. Moulder. I don't know who on the staff is attending to that. 

Mr. Parks. I will be around to see the gentlemen when I get 
through. 

Mr. Moulder. Yes, that is right. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Parks. My name is Samuel J. Parks, Jr., 614 East 62d Street. 
I am the operator of a service station. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you by this committee ? 

Mr. Parks. I didn't get what you said. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena ? 

Mr. Parks. This subpena, yes. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Parks. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Laavson. Belf ord Lawson, Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been engaged at the gas station ? 

Mr. Parks. April 1957. 

Mr. Arens. A^^iat was your employment inunediately prior to 
that? 

Mr. Parks. Director of the Anti-Discrimination Department, 
UPW, AFI^CIO, District 1. 

Mr. Arens. Plow long did you occupy that position ? 

Mr. Parks. For around 3 years. 

Mr. Arens. What was your occupation immediately prior to that 
occupation ? 

Mr. Parks. Secretary-treasurer of District No. 1. 

Mr. Arens. Of what? 

Mr. Parks. UPW, AFI^CIO. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you occupy that position ? 

Mr. Parks. Around 4 years. 

Mr. Moulder, How long ? 

Mr. Parks. Around 4 or 5 years. It has been so long ago. I don't 
know approximately. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a candidate for public office ? 

Mr. Parks. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

■11635—59 5 



566 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr Arens. I lay before you now a thermofax reproduction of a 
leaflet or flyer, "Sam Parks for Congress," and ask you whether or not 
the facts recited there respecting your candidacy for Congress are 
true and correct. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr Parks. What is your question relative to that again ? 

Mr. Arens. Are the facts recited in this document which I have 
just displayed to you, this leaflet respecting the candidacy of Sam 
Parks for Congress ; are those facts correct? 

Mr. Parks. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons 

I have iust stated. .. , • ■, • 

(Document marked "Parks Exhibit No. 1" and retained m commit- 
tee files.) „ , ^ • . -r> i 1 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party when you 
ran for Congress on the Progressive Party ticket ? 

Mr. Parks. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it may 
tend to incriminate me. i <? j.i 

Mr. Arens. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the 
Communist Party ? . i i • 

Mr. Parks. I refuse to answer that question on the same basis. 

Mr! Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr.' Parks. I am not a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 

Party ? 

Mr. Parks. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it may 

tend to incriminate me. i • • ^-u />< 

Mr. Arens. Did you resign technical membership m the Commu- 
nist Party so you could take an oath and deny current membership 
in the Communist Party and stay within the Communist Party 
operation? . , , ., 

Mr. Parks. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds it may 
tend to incriminate me. , • .i ^ -n 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully submit that will con- 
clude tlie staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Willis ? 

Mr. Willis. No. 

Mr. Johansen. No. 

Mr. Moulder. Call your next witness, Mr. Arens. _ 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will 
be Mr. Jack Souther. Will you please come forward ? 

Mr. M0UI.DER. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are 
about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Souther. I do. 
#^- 

TESTIMONY OF JACK SOUTHEE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BELFOED V. LAWSOIT, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation ? ^, . r. n 1 A T 

Mr. Souther. Jack Souther, 5214 South Springfield Avenue. 1 
am secretary-treasurer of District 1, United Packinghouse Workers 
of America, AFI^CIO. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 567 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you? 

Mr. Souther. I am. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Souther. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Lawson. Belford V. Lawson, Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Souther, how long have you maintained your pres- 
ent job with United Packinghouse Workers of America? 

Mr. Souther. Since 1952. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Souther. I refuse to answer that question. It might tend to 
incriminate me. ^ . 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Carl Nelson testified this morning that while he 
was a member of the Communist Party a number of people resigned 
technical membership in the Coimnunist Party, but stayed within 
the Communist Party operation as Communists so that they could 
deny present technical membership in the Communist Party if they 
were ever confronted with the question on that score. Did you re- 
sign technical membership in the Communist Party but maintain 
yourself in the Communist Party operation? 

Mr. Souther. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Nelson said he knew you as a member of the 
Communist Party. Was he in error on that identification, or was he 
telling the truth ? 

Mr. Souther. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully submit that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. Mr. Counsel, you should divide your general question 
for this witness. I think, unless I misunderstand you, you said "Are 
you now, or have you ever been." Divide the question. 

Mr. Aeens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Souther. No. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Souther. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Did you resign technical membership in the Com- 
munist Party but maintain yourself in the Communist operation ? 

Mr. Souther. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. If you gave a truthful answer to that question would 
you be giving us information which might be used against you in a 
criminal proceeding ? 

Mr. Souther. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully submit that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. I understand you decline to answer the last ques- 
tions that have been propounded to you for the first reason previ- 
ously stated, namely, that you claim the protection, your privilege 
under the Constitution in declining to answer, is that right, Mr. 
Lawson ? 

Mr. Lawson. That is right. 

Mr. Souther. That is right. 



568 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF Vi'UAL INDUiSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Moulder. All right. , u • 

Mr. Souther. No; 1 did not refuse to denounce my membership 

now. 

Mr. Moulder. Yes; you answered that. You denied present mem- 
bership in tlie Communist Party. 

Mr. Souther. I am not now a member. 

Mr. Moulder. Eight. We understand. 

Claim the witness fee by signing the voucher. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Gloria Wailes. 

Please come forward. 

Mr. Moulder. Please raise your right hand and be sworn. Do you 
solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before the com- 
mittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mrs. Wailes. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF GLOEIA WAILES, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BELFOKD V. LAWSON, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 

Mrs.' Wailes. I am Mrs. Gloria Wailes and I reside at 6922 South 
Prairie Avenue and I am a secretary. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by this conmiittee ? 

Mrs. Wailes. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel? 

Mrs. Wailes. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself on this record ( 

Mr. Lawson. Belford V. Lawson, Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Arens. Where are you employed, Mrs. Wailes ? 

Mrs. Wailes. I am em'ployed as a secretary at the international 
office of the United Packinghouse Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been so employed ^ 

Mrs. Wailes. Three and a half years. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat was your employment immediately prior to your 
present employment ''i 

Mrs. Wailes. Secretary to Local No. 25 of the United Packinghouse 
Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. Located in Chicago ? 

Mrs. Wailes. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time were you so employed ? 

Mrs. Wailes. Five years. 

2ilr. Arens. xind what was your occupation prior to that ? 

i!»Irs. Wailes. I refuse to answer that question. It might tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr, Arens. Are you now, or liave you ever been, a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

jMrs. Wailes. Would you clarify yourself ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Wailes. I am not a member of the Communist Party. 



COMMUNIST INFILTKATIOX OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 569 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs, Wailes. I refuse to answer that question. It might tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Did you resign technical membership in the Communist 
Party but maintain yourself in the Communist operation so that you 
could take an oath and deny current, present membership in a formal 
entity knovn as the Communist Party '^ 

Mrs. Wailes. Would you please clarify yourself ? 

Mr. Arens, Did you resign technical membership in the Commu- 
nist Party but maintain yourself in the Communist operation? 

Mrs. Wailes. I refuse to answer that question on the basis it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Carl Nelson took an oath this morning and testified 
respecting the teclinique and strategy and tactics, in the recent past, 
being used by the Communist conspiracy whereby the comrades resign 
technical membersliip in a formal entity known as the Commmiist 
Party and maintain themselves in the Communist Party operation. 
He likewise testified that while he was a member of the formal entity 
known as the Commmiist Party he knew you as a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Was he in error in that identification, or was he telling the truth? 

Mrs. Wailes. What is your specific question ? 

Mr. Arens. Was he in error when he identified you as a person 
who was known to him to be a member of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. Wailes. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you presently have information respecting persons 
who, in the recent past, to your certain knowledge have been members 
of the Co^umunist Party ? 

Mrs. Wailes. I have no knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know people who have been members of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Wailes. I refuse to answer that question and I have consti- 
tutional right. 

Mr. Arens. Why do you refuse to answer that question ? 

Mrs. Wailes. Fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Whj^ do you refuse to answer that question ? 

Mrs. Wailes. Because under constitutional rights which I also 
have, even though I am a Negro ; I refuse to answer that question on 
the basis of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully, submit that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Willis ? 

Mr. Willis. No. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions Mr. Johansen ? 

Mr. Johansen. No. 

Mr. Moulder. I want to ask one or two questions. 

Mrs. Wailes. Sorry I can't hear you. 

Mr. Moulder. I want to ask one or two questions of you, Mrs. 
Wailes. 

I understood you to say you are not now a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 



570 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mrs. Wailes. No, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. And you have no association or connection with any 
of the Communist Party activities, is that correct? 

Mrs. Wailes. That is correct. 

Mr. Moulder. You are engaged now working where ? 

Mrs. AVailes. A secretary. 

Mr. Moulder. As a secretary ? 

Mrs. Wailes. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. Are you married ? 

]Mrs AVailes. Yes I am. 

Mr. Moulder. Now I want to say this to you that your being sub- 
penaed before the committee within itself, by itself, does not carry 
with it any reflection or any questions as to your loyalty or patriotic 
loyalty as an American citizen whatsoever, and I have every reason 
to hope that you are. 

You are excused as a witness and you may claim your witness fee. 

Mi's. Wailes. Thank you. 

Mr. Arens. Joseph Zabritski, please come forward and remain 
standing while the chairman administers an oath. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are 
about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Zabritski. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH ZABEITSKI, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BELPORD V. LAWSON, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation ? 

Mr. Zabritskl Joseph Zabritski, 4315 South Spaulding; I am a 
plumber. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities ? 

Mr. Zabritski. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Zabritski. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Lawson. Belford V. Lawson, Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Arens. Where are you employed, Mr. Zabritski ? 

Mr. Zabritski. I am employed at the Hawthorne Plumbing Co. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been so employed ? 

Mr. Zabritskl A little over 2 years. 

Mr. Aeens. What was your employment immediately prior to your 
present employment ? 

Mr. Zabritski. Oh, I have jobs off and on ever since I left Wilson 
& Co. in 1955. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you employed ? 

Mr. Zabritskl I had several jobs since then. 

Mr. Arens. Give us the basic jobs that you held prior to your 
present job, the principal employments. 

Mr. Zabritskl Well, I worked for — Oh, I don't know the names 
of all these companies. A little place on the North Side just on the 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 571 

other side of Chicago Avenue. I worked there about 2 months. And 
I worked for the old pLant of Miller & Hart there for about 2 months 
and then before that I was working for the Local 25. 

Mr. Arens. Local 25 of what? 

Mr. Zabritski. United Packinghouse Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. Were you ever president of Local 25 ? 

Mr, Zabritski Yes, sir ; I w^as. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time were you president of 
Local 25 ? 

Mr. Zabritski. I think around — I think around 1953, 1954, and 
1955. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever sign a non-Communist affidavit? 

Mr. Zabritski. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien ? 

Mr. Zabritski. Oh, I guess right when it first became the law of 
the land. 

Mr. Arens. Was that in 1948 ? 

Mr. Zabritski. That is when it became the law of the land; yes, 
sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever resign from the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Zabritski. I take the fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Zabritski. I take the fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now ? 

Mr. Moulder. As suggested by the gentleman from Louisiana, 
please divide that question. Give the witness an opportunity to 
answer. 

Mr. Arens. I was about to do that. 

Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Zabritski. No, sir ; I am not. 

Mr. Arens. Did you resign technical membership in the Communist 
Party but maintain yourself in the Communist operation? 

Mr. Zabritski. I take the fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Carl Nelson ? 

Mr. Zabritski. I take the fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Nelson testified this morning that during his career 
in the Communist Party a number of persons resigned technical mem- 
bership in the Communist Party but maintained themselves in the 
Communist operations, and he testified further that while he was a 
member of the formal entity known as the Communist Party he knew 
you, sir, as a member of the Communist Party. Was he in error in 
that testimony, or was he correct ? 

Mr. Zabritski. I take the fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully submit that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Willis ? 

Mr. Willis. Counsel, did you ask him the direct question whether 
he resigned technical membership in order to have the benefit of the 
invocation of the constitutional privilege ? 

Mr. Arens. I asked him that question. 

Mr. Willis. For the record I think those questions are very im- 
portant from my point of view and should be answered under oath. 



572 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF \TTAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. I did ask him the question which you just repeated Mr. 
Willis, and he invoked the constitutional privilejje in response to it. 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. I believe you testified that you did on occasion sign 
a loyalty oath ? 

Mr. Zabritski. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. A non- Communist affidavit. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. A non- Communist oath? 

Mr. Zabritski. Yes, sir. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Were you at the instant you signed that non- Com- 
munist oath a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Zabritski. No, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask you, going on farther 'so that the record 
may be clear : When was the affidavit signed, in what year ? 

Mr. Zabritski. That will be the first year that it became tlie law, 
I don't remember wlien it was. I don't remember. 

Mr. Moulder. More than several years ago, in other words ? 

Mr. Zabritski. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. Since that time have you contributed any dues oi' 
made any contributions to any cell in the Communist Party or any 
Communist Party activities ? 

Mr. Zabritski. Since the time of 

Mr. Moulder. Since 1948 or since you signed that affidavit that you 
referred to ? 

Mr. Zabritski. Not that I know of. 

IVIr. Moulder. That is the question and I want to make the record 
clear for your own protection so it will have the proper reflection upon 
you. 

During all that period of time, you have not in any way associated 
yourself by participating in any Communist Party affairs; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Zabritski. I just been trying to make a living so I could support 
my family, that is about all. 

Mr. Moulder. Insofar as you realize or know, you have not since 
that time, in any way, associated with any activity of the Connnunist 
Party? 

j\Ir. Zabritski. No, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused. 

You may claim your witness fees with Mr. Collins by signing a 
voucher, and Mr. Lawson I would suggest the other witnesses who 
haven't signed the vouchers should see Mr. Collins about it. 

Mr. Arens. We have no further witnesses for today, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow. 

(Whereupon, at 3 :40 p.m., Tuesday, May 5, the subcommittee ad- 
journed to reconvene at 10 a.m., Wednesday, May 6, 1959.) 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES 
AND CURRENT COMMUNIST TECHNIQUES IN THE 
CHICAGO, ILL., AREA 



WEDNESDAY, MAY 6, 1959 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Chicago^ III. 
public hearings 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to recess, at 10 : 15 a.m., in courtroom 209, United 
States Courthouse, 219 South Clark Street, Chicago, 111., Hon. Mor- 
gan M. Moulder (subcommittee chairman) presiding. 

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Morgan M. 
Moulder of Missouri, Edwin E. Willis of Louisiana and August E. 
Johansen of Michigan. 

Staff members present: Richard Arens, staff director, and Ray- 
mond T. Collins, investigator, 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. 

I have received a telegram from Mr. Ralph Helstein, president 
of the United Packinghouse Workers AFL-CIO, wherein he states 
that Mr. Jesse Prosten has not been hiding out from the committee 
somewhere in the southeast trying to avoid service of a subpena, that 
he is in St. Paul and that he resents much, during the course of the 
hearings, the statement that he is hiding out, that he has secured per- 
mission to return to Cliicago on Wednesday, May 6, and that he will 
be available as a witness to appear in the hearings on Thursday,^ 
May 7. 

Call your next witness, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Mr, John Kackney, kindly come forward. 

Please remain standing while the chairman administers an oath. 

Mr, Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are 
about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Hackney. I do, 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN R. HACKNEY 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, if you would be good enough to bear 
with us for a few seconds while this microphone system is being ad- 
justed. 

Mr. Moulder, Sure. 

573 



574 COMJVIUlSriST infiltration of vital industries CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

Mr. Hackney. My name is John R. Hackney. I live at 7337 
Calumet, Chicago. I am employed as an international representative 
for the Amalgamated Meat Cutters and Butcher Workmen of North 
America, AFI^CIO. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you occupied that position ? 

Mr. Hackney. Since March 24, 1952. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word, please, sir, respecting previous oc- 
cupations you have had since you reached adulthood, just the princi- 
pal previous occupations. 

Mr. Hackney. Previous occupations were 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess for a period of 
10 minutes or until such time as the microphone can be adjusted. 

( Committee members present : Representatives Moulder, Willis, and 
Johansen.) 

(A brief recess.) 

(Committee members present : Representatives Moulder, Willis, and 
Johansen.) 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. 

Mr. Arens. You were, as we suspended a moment ago, in the process 
of giving the principal occupations which you have had since you 
reached adulthood. Would you kindly proceed ? 

Mr. Hackney. I would say in 1925 I started to work with Swift 
& Company. In 1931 I went over to the G. H. Hammond plant and 
worked there until the United Packinghouse Workers conducted a 
campaign to organize the plant, in which I took an active part in the 
campaign and subsequently became the president of that local. Local 
26. 

I took a leave of absence at the request of the district director to take 
a job as a field representative for the United Packinghouse Workers, 
approximately in the year 1944 or 1943 and remained in that position 
until August 1948. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Hackney, have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes, I was a member of the Communist Party ap- 
proximately from 1942 to 1948. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Hackney, why did you join the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hackney. Well, I was led to believe that the Communist Party 
was the spearhead of the rights of the Negro people. 

Mr. Arens. The record caimot reflect it. You are a member of the 
Negro race, is that correct ? 

Mr. Hackney. Correct. 

Mr. Arens. Would you proceed to tell us why you broke with the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hackney. I found that they were misleading myself and my 
people in regards to conducting campaigns for purposes of making the 
Negro people believe that they were pioneering the fight for their 
rights. 

Mr. Arens. I expect to interrogate you at length in a few moments 
respecting the details of your membership in the Communist Party 
and undertake to solicit from you considerable information respecting 
Communist operations. I want, if you please, first, however, in order 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 575 

to place your testimony in perspective to ask you a few general 
questions. 

You told us that you were in the meat industry, in the packing- 
house industry during the course of most of your adult life? 

Mr. Hackney. Since I was 17 years old. 

Mr. Arens, Does the Communist operation in the greater Chicago 
area covet, seek to penetrate — is it in a position of penetration in the 
meat industry ? 

Mr. Hackney. It is now and always has been. 

Mr. Arens. Wliy ? 

Mr. Hackney. Because the party felt that the meat industry was 
essential to the national economy and it was important that they 
build the party within the meat industry in the event that we had war 
with other nations, that we could control the meat industry and its 
various outlets. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Hackney, based upon your extensive experience in 
the Communist Party, how serious is the Communist operation in the 
greater Chicago area on the basis of your most current information? 

Mr. Hackney. From my most current information and my ex- 
perience in my activity in the party I would say that the party is 
stronger now in the meat industry than it ever has been. 

Mr. Arens. The Communist Party as a formal entity has been re- 
duced in size, has it not ? 

Mr. Hackney. It has been reduced in size because of, well, there 
are some people that they consider not good party material that 
couldn't serve the purpose of the party and they were removed from 
office one way or other, from position in the party, from membership 
in the party. 

Mr. Arens. Is there a distinction in your mind based upon your 
experience in the Communist Party between a person who is a member 
of the formal entity known as the Communist Party and a person who 
is a Communist in the Communist operation but who, for reasons of 
the conspiracy, is not a formal member of the entity known as the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hackney. The distinction between an ordinary member and a 
genuine Communist is that a member is just an ordinary member 
where, in my opinion, a Communist is a leader and operates in leader- 
ship of the union. 

Mr. Arens. Are there any persons in the conspiracy as Communists 
who have resigned technical membership in the formal entity known 
as the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Now, yesterday, and I am using this only from the 
standpoint of a simple illustration for the record which we are making 
today, yesterday we heard witnesses, some of whom had been identified 
as members of the Communist Party. TVlien they appeared before 
this committee they said in effect that they were not then members of 
the Communist Party. When I asked them if they resigned technical 
membership in the formal entity known as the Communist Party in 
order to maintain themselves in the Communist operation, they re- 
fused to give us responses. 

Do you have any recommendations, based upon your background 
and information, which could establish a criterion or test that can be 



576 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

appliftd to determine whether or not a person who has resigned from 
technical membership in the formal entity known as the Communist 
Party is, in truth and in fact, out of the conspiracy ? 

Mr. Hackney. In my opinion if a person has resigned completely 
from the Communist Party he would come before this committee and 
he would say so and he would testifj'^, the same as I am, and as far as 
experience I have had with members of the Communist Party resigning 
for technical reasons, I can cite you one particular case that comes in 
my mind and that was in the 1948 convention here in the city of 
Chicago. 

There was a caucus meeting held of top party officials and for the 
purpose of deciding who was to resign from the party because of the 
refusal to sign the Taft-Hartley oath and in one particular case there 
was Meyer Stern, the district director of District 6 in New York, 
whom I knew to be a member of the party, and to my surprise I 
learned that he had resigned from the party the night before the elec- 
tion of officers took place and that he was now eligible to run for office 
and be reelected a district director of District 6 because he was now 
not a member of the party and free to sign a non- Communist affidavit. 

Mr. Arens. Did he maintain himself for all intents and purposes as 
an active member of the conspiracy ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. Just to correct the record, Mr. Arens, I hope I am 
not too technical. 

But do you know from your own personal knowledge that that 
reasoning ;ind application of tlie rensoning that Mr. Arens has stated, 
applies to the witnesses who testified here yesterday ? 

The reference was made to those witnesses and I wonder if you know 
of your own personal knowledge anything about them in that respect? 

Mr. Hackney. Most of them signed the affidavit after I left. 

Mr. Moulder. Then you don't know of your own pei-sonal knowledge 
that they are still active or associated with the Communist Party's 
philosophy and activities ? 

Mr. Hackney. No ; I don't. No. 

Mr. Moulder. I see. 

Mr. Arens. As of the time you left the Communist Party, how 
intensive was the Communist penetration of the packinghouse in- 
industry in the greater Chicago area? 

Mr. Hackney. In the greater Chicago area most of the local unions 
and the international positions in this organization were held by mem- 
bers that I know who have been members of the Com.munist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Before we get into the details of your participation in 
the Communist movement, I should like to ask you if, since you have 
broken from the Communist Party, you have been a consultant, a 
witness for the United States Government in certain proceedings? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes ; I have. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, the Government of the United States 
via the Justice Department and the Immigration and Naturalization 
Service and other agencies have availed themselves of your services 
in a public capacity giving the Government information respecting 
the operation of the conspiracy ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Hackney. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Now, kindly tell us, if you please, where and when you 
joined the Communist Party. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 577 

Mr. Hackney. Well, I signed the card at the district headquarters 
of the UPWA. At that time it was located at 4758 South Marshfield. 
I remained in until — during the 1948 strike, up until that time. Some- 
time during 1947 I began to see through the conspiracy to mislead the 
people of the industry and particularly Negro people and I became 
fed up with it and I think that they suspected that I was becoming 
inactive and after the 1948 strike I received a letter from President 
Helstein that my services were no longer required because of the 
financial strain that was on the international in regards to the 1948 
strike. 

It was necessary to cut the staff at this time. And that I was one 
of those that had left the plant on a leave of absence, that I would be 
requested to go back to the plant, maintain myself until at such time 
the international saw fit to again increase its staff I would be given 
consideration. 

However, when they did increase its staff I was replaced by a man 
from United Electrical Workers Union and I had left the party and 
apparently for that reason I wasn't called when they decided to in- 
crease the staff. 

Mr. Arens. Now, may I inquire, did you attend Communist Party 
training schools after your induction into the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes ; I did. That is one of the requirements. After 
they recruit you into the party you are not considered just good 
party material by simply joining the party. You have to be trained 
to become an aggressive leader in the union. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you trained ? 

Mr. Hackney. I went to scliool in Des Plaines. 

Mr. Arens. Des Plaines, Illinois ? 

Mr. Hackney. Des Plaines, Illinois. I went to, I believe, at that 
time it was called Abraham Lincoln Center on Oakwood Boulevard 
and Langley Avenue. We had classes there in regard to parliamentary 
procedure, public speaking, how to become a leader in the union. How 
to stand out so people will recognize you as being a leader. This 
would bring prestige to the party. 

Mr. Arens. Did you go to any other schools ? 

Mr. Hackney. That was all that I can recall at this time. I proba- 
bly did. We had classes at 4848 Ashland Avenue at various times 
but how many classes I could not remember. 

Mr. Arens. Based upon your experience in the Communist Party 
and as one who was trained in the Communist Party training schools 
do you have any pronouncements to make respecting the connection 
between the Communist Party and the Communist operation in the 
United States and the international Communist conspiracy directed 
from Moscow ? 

Mr. Hackney. Well, they practically followed the same line. 

Mr. Arens. Is there a direct line of control ? 

Mr. Hackney. We always referred to our comrades in Russia and 
the trade-union movement in Russia and they are our comrades and 
naturally we all are in the same organization. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us, please, the various entities within the meatpack- 
ing industry to which you were connected as a comrade. 

Mr. Hackney. I was connected as the chairman of the small house 
branch of the Packinghouse Section. 



578 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. What comprised the small house branch ? 

Mr. Hackney. The small house branch consisted of small plants 
that employed say 300 or 400 people, 100 people, and they were all 
combined together in one branch of the section. 

Mr. Arens. Could you tell us how the Packinghouse Section was 
made up ? 

Mr. Hackney. The Packinghouse Section was made up of three 
or four branches. There were the Swift branch, the Armour branch, 
the Wilson branch, and the small house branch. 

Mr. Arens. AVho was chairman or in leadership capacity in the 
Swift branch? 

Mr. Hackney. Well, they had a problem in the Swift plant branch. 
They were trying to find leadership. They had several that they tried. 
They had tried Ramirez. They tried John Lewis. They tried Charley 
Proctor. 

Mr. Arens. Were all of them known by you to be members of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hackney. Definitely. 

Mr. Arens. Did you serve in closed Communist Party meetings 
with them ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. How about the Armour branch. Who were in leader- 
ship capacity at the Armour branch ? 

Mr. Hackney. You had Leon Beverly, Joe Bezenhoffer. I have 
several names if you care to. I have some notes in my pocket. 

Mr. Arens. I want to get into the identities of a number of people 
a little later on. I just at the moment want the leaders. The Armour 
branch. 

Mr. Hackney. Armour branch, Beverly, Bezenhoffer. 

Mr. Arens. Give the full names, please ? 

Mr. Hackney. Joe Bezenhoffer, Leon Beverly, Randolph Luke, 
Charles Mitchell. 

Mr. Arens. How about the Wilson branch ? 

Mr. Hackney. Wilson branch consisted of Joe Zabritski, Carl Nel- 
son, Sam Parks. 

Mr. Arens. Were they the leaders ? 

Mr. Hackney. They were the top ones. 

Mr. Arens. How about the small house unit ? 

Mr. Hackney. As to the small house unit, I was the head of the 
small house unit. We had 

Mr. Arens. Did you have associates in leadership ? 

Mr. Hackney. I had associates in the Miller & Hart plant, James 
Jesse Richards; in the Illinois Meat Co. we had a leader by the name 
of Jack Sechrest, and 

Mr. Arens. Did that pretty well include the leadership? 

Mr. Hackney. That included the top leadership. There were 
others but they were not considered leaders. 

Mr. Arens. As of the time you disassociated yourself from the 
Communist Party, who was the top leader of the Communist opera- 
tion in the packinghouse industry in the greater Chicago area ? 

Mr. Hackney. Jesse Prosten. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about Jesse Prosten. 

Mr. Hackney. Jesse Prosten was known as the brains behind the 
scene. He was considered the No. 1 party member in packing. He 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 579 

is the comrade that had connections throughout the industry where 
there were other members of the party and there were other people 
that were not members of the party that he had good relationships 
with. 

Mr. Arens. What is his present job? 

Mr. Hackney. I am told that his present job now is head of the 
grievance department of the UPWA. However, when I was asso- 
ciated with the United Packinghouse Workers he was head of the 
grievance department in the Armour chain. I since learned he had 
been promoted now to cover the entire grievance department there in 
the national union. 

Mr. Arens. Now, I should like, before we get into the identification 
of additional persons known by you to be Communists in the packing- 
house industry, to ask you about certain phases of the activities in 
which the Communists were engaged, to your certain knowledge, 
while you were in the party assigned to the packinghouse industry. 
Do you have information respecting Communist Party activities in 
political campaigns? 

Mr. Hackney. Very definitely. There is one that stands out very 
bold in my memory and that was the campaign to elect Pete Brown 
for alderman of the Second Ward. We had several meetings at 4848 
Ashland and discussed the problem. When I said several meetings I 
don't mean meetings of the party itself, but I mean the top echelon. 
I was considered what you might call part of the top brass by virtue 
of me holding a chairmanship in the small house branch. 

The top officials of the party would meet on various occasions and 
discuss strategy and plans and this particular time we discussed the 
possibility of running one of our people as an alderman of the Second 
Ward. 

Pete Brown lived in the Second Ward. We had a meeting and dis- 
cussed it at 4848 Ashland. We came to agreement there and left 
there and went to the South Side Branch of the Communist Party, 
with Claude Lightfoot and discussed it with hmi 

Mr. Arens. Who was Claude Lightfoot ? 

Mr. Hackney. He was at that time the chairman of the South 
Side Branch of the Communist Party. We discussed it with him and 
reviewed the political work that took place in 1944 at which time we 
had a very effective ward organization and it was discussed that we 
sliould continue this ward organization because it was felt that we 
could use it for some political influence. We conducted a good cam- 
paign, showing progress. 

Mr. Arens. Were union funds utilized in the campaign? 

Mr. Hackney. Definitely. I would say it this way : I was a full- 
time paid organizer for the UPWA. Pete Brown was a full-time 
paid organizer for the UPWA. And Sam Parks was paid by his local 
union, full time. And when we met these are the people that attended 
that meeting and mapped the strategy out. 

Yes, there were other funds raised for the campaign. People were 
asked to come out of the plant on temporary leave to poll watchers 
to do whatever assignment they had for them. 

Mr. Arens. I would like to invite your attention to another area 
of Communist Party activity and solicit from you your frank state- 
ments and observations based upon your own experience. It has been 



580 COMMUNIST INTILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

the experience of this committee, Mr. Hackney, as we go from area 
to area trying to develop information respecting the operation of 
the Communist conspiracy, that trained hard-core agents of the con- 
spiracy sit opposite us here and surround themselves with an aura of 
sanctity saying that they are the ones that are advocating the preser- 
-.^ation of precious rights and that this committee is the one that is 
destroying those rights, this committee is the witch hunter, this com- 
mittee is the one that is trying to destroy the civil rights of the colored 
people of our country, that this committee is the entity that is against 
civil rights and the only reason why we have at any time a colored 
man before this committee is because he is a colored man and because 
we want to hold him up to ridicule and destroy him. 

Now, based upon your experience in the Communist Party, are 
these comrades sincere when they make those protestations and sur- 
round themselves with that aura of respectability on their own 
conduct ? 

Would you just in your own way express yourself on this very 
crucial issue? 

Mr. Hackney. That vei-y definitely in my opinion is an outright 
lie. They have portrayed themselves to be the pioneers for the rights 
of Negro people and I know from experience and past experience 
that they have used the many grievances of the Negro people for the 
purpose of building the party. They cite certain cases that they 
played an attractive role in getting some actions. One that comes in 
my mind is the Scottsboro case, that they contend that they were 
active in, well, the launching the forefront for the Scottsboro boys, 
gaining them a hearing — what were results of the hearing I don't 
know— but they contend they were in the forefront. 

They contend they were in the forefront when the Negro people 
were being evicted during the depression era, that they were active 
in putting people back in their homes. Overall they contend that they 
are the pioneers for the rights of the Negro people. 

Mr. Arens. Are they sincere in those protestations? 

Mr. Hackney. Definitely not. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any illustrations in your own mind from 
your own experience in which the Communist operations have actu- 
ally discriminated against people of the Negro race for the interest 
of the advancement of the conspiracy ? 

Mr. Hackney. Well, I would say if they were interested in Negro 
people I can cite you — this microphone is oft' now. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will recess for a period of 5 minutes 
or short period of time until the microphone can be properly adjusted. 

(Members of the committee present: Representatives Moulder, 
Willis, and Johansen.) 

(A brief recess.) 

(Members of the committee present after recess: Representatives 
Willis and Johansen.) 

Mr. Arens. Would you proceed on the matter which you were dis- 
cussing and speak right into the microphone, please? 

Mr. Hackney. I can think of cases where they have — it's not on now. 

Mr. Arens, If you will kindly speak into the speaker and just pro- 
ceed with the information wliicli you were in the process of supplying 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 581 

to the committee when we had the inteiTuption because of the tem- 
perament of the microphone system here. 

Mr. Kackney. I woukl say that in many cases they have destroyed 
Negro leaders in the union that they felt were detrimental to their 
programs. I can cite a particular case of Phil Weightman. In my 
opinion Phil Weightman was a fighter for the rights of Negro people, 
who was vice president of the United Packinghouse Workers at the 
time I was there, and it seems that Phil Weightman would oppose them 
on certain issues, I imagine in the international executive board meet- 
ings, and for that reason Phil Weightman was, you might call, extermi- 
nated. 

I can think of some other Negro leaders. It comes to my mind, 
Oscar Wilson was one time a field representative. Apparently he 
didn't go along with the program and eventually he was exterm- 
inated. 

Mr. Arens. May I just ask you your observation as to why the Com- 
munist Party has created such fronts as the National Negro Congress 
and others of like stripe with a front at least of attempting to beguile 
the American people into believing that they actually in truth and 
in fact are sincere in seeking betterment for the Negro citizenry ? 

Mr. Hackney. They set up these front organizations so that they 
cannot be connected with the party itself. The purpose of these or- 
ganizations is to try to prove to the Negro people that this committee 
is fighting for the rights of the Negro people. They are not identified 
as a Communist organization. They are fronted through certain 
names like the Negro peoples' National Negro Congress, a few other 
names. 

Mr. Arens. Could you from your own experience give us an il- 
lustration or so of a front group in which you as a Communist par- 
ticipated on behalf of the Communist Party within a front group ? 

Mr. Hackney. I was active in the National Negro Congress. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Hackney. I was just active in the community in regards to get 
people out to vote, using the people that we had in the Negro National 
Congress to set up our ward organization. 

Mr. Arens. Were you also active in the Midwest Committee for 
Protection of Foreign Born ? 

Mr. Hackney. No, but that name came up many times when they 
were asked contributions to be sent to this organization. 

Mr. Arens. Would you give us just a few words respecting the tech- 
nique of the Communist operation, what we will in this session char- 
acterize as the self-criticism discussions? Can you give us a word 
about that, the Communist technique ? 

Mr. Hackney. We had several of these sessions, they were called — 
sometime we called them bull session and sometime just have a 
meeting. 

"VVliere people are not too aggressive, it seems like they had fallen 
by the wayside and at these sessions you were to get up and point out 
your weaknesses, what you thought was wrong with you, criticize 
yourself and then you in turn would turn around and state what you 
thought you could do to correct your weaknesses. 

At the same tim.e you were to point out your own weaknesses you 
had an opportunity to criticize other people that you saw that had 

41635—59 6 



582 COMMUNIST INTILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

certain weaknesses. We had several of these sessions for the pur- 
poses of, well, in their opinion you were not being active enough to 
reactivize you, make you more aggressive. 

Mr. Arens, Could you give us a further word with respect to the 
techniques of collection of money for the operation of the conspiracy ? 

Mr. Hackney. For example, there were mass rallies to raise money, 
to say tight for something that happened down South. I have in 
mind that there was a lynching down South. A big rally was heid 
for the purpose of raising funds to see that people responsible for 
certain crimes in the South were brought to justice. We had many 
of these rallies. 

Mr. Arens. Did the Communist Party have anything to do based 
upon your information with the financing of the present headquarters 
of the United Packinghouse Workers in the Chicago area ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Canyon tell us about that? 

Mr. Hackney. I happened to be at the ground-breaking ceremonies, 
I think the summer of 1947, and at that time I was standing in the 
crowd a man came up to me that I recognized as Seymour Siporin 
and he recognized me and we shook hands. 

Mr. Arens. Was he a Communist ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes. He told me that he had designed this build- 
ing and was in the process of building it. 

Mr. Arens. Did he tell you about the processes of financing it? 

Mr. Hackney. No, he didn't tell me. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us about any city- wide Communist Party 
meetings in the course of your experience in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hackney. We had several citywide meetings, where we would 
meet Communist Party members from other organizations otlier than 
the packinghouse workers. They were at no particular time, just 
whenever the occasion called for it. We would have one of these 
citywide meetings and we would discuss problems on a citywide basis 
and statewide basis. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Hackney, of course it is obvious I know nothing 
about the meatpacking industry, but since we have been studying 
the Communist operation in this area I have learned just a little about 
it. I have learned tliat there has been in the course of the last few 
years a sort, of a decentralization or a scattering of some of the meat- 
packing plants from the Chicago area on out into the Midwest and 
up into the Northwest to a degree at least, so we understand. 

Has the Communist operation been following this decentralization 
operation, do you know ? 

Mr. Hackney. No, I don't know of that. But in the city I would 
say that they remain with the industry as it stands. However, I 
learned that the packing industry in Chicago is only a shadow of 
what it was in 1048, in wliich I was president 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us wliat the Communist means in Com- 
munist lingo or jargon by the word "colonizing"? 

Mr. Hackney. Colonizing means tliat you send a person into various 
localities where the party is weak, wliere they have very little party 
influence. I can cite one particular case that comes to my knowledge. 
The party was weak in the Swift plant and there was a Victoria 
Kramer sent into that plant for the purpose of activizing. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 583 

Mr. Arens. Was Victoria Kramer a Communist? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes. 

She Avas planted in the Swift pLant for the purpose of activizing 
the white women in the phmt. I know Carl Nelson was sent from 
the Armour plant over to the Wilson plant to build the party in the 
Wilson plant. There might be some other instances that don't come 
to my memory at this time. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting the creation and 
operation by the Communist Party or the Communist operation in 
the greater Chicago area of a publication known as the Chicago Star ? 

Mr. Hackney. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us about that, just the highlights of it, 
please? 

Mr. Hackney. We had several meetings of it — the section or sec- 
tion committee and we discussed that some people would shy away 
from subscribing to the Daily Worker because it was a known Com- 
munist paper, whereby if w^e had a local paper that could be classified 
as a labor paper, put out for the people of Chicago, that the people 
would be more apt to subscribe for it and read it, where w^e could still 
get our message over to the people without putting it in the Daily 
Worker. 

Mr. Arens. Was it absolutely controlled by the Communist con- 
spiracy ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. I should like to ask you respecting the information you 
have in regard to each of several persons and I want you to be excep- 
tionally cautious, and not give us any indication of any suggestion 
even though you thought they may or may not have been members 
of the Communist Party unless you are absolutely certain, based 
upon your membership in that conspiracy and based upon absolute 
information that came to you from closed party meetings. 

Did you in the course of your membership in the Communist Party 
know as a Communist, Leon Beverly? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about Leon Beverly, please. 

Mr. Hackney. Leon Beverly was in the Armour plant. He was on 
the executive board until the president of that local, wlio wns Sam 
Curry, was pushed upstairs, given a job on the international payroll 
as assistant to the director or the wage rate department, and P)everly 
who later became the president of that local union, the Armour 
Local 347. 

Mr. Arens. In the course of your membership in the Communist 
Party, can you tell us to a certainty while you are under oath, wliether 
or not you knew Hazel Gray as a member of the Communist Party, 
if so in what capacity Hazel Gray served? 

Mr. Hackney. I met Hazel Gray, who w^as with the Farm Equip- 
ment Union. I first met her in the South Side Section of the Com- 
munist Party at which time I learned that she was in the Farm 
Equipment Union, an active leader in that union. 

Mr. Arens. Did you w-hile you w^ere a member of the Communist 
Party know as a Communist Charles Hayes? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes, I knew Charles Hayes. When I first met 
Charley Hayes he was in the Wilson plant and he was on the slate 



584 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

of Sam Parks that were successful in defeating the president at that 
time who was a man at that time by the nsune of Dock Williams. 
And Charley Hayes was later the chairman of the gi'ievance commit- 
tee in the Wilson local, which was Local 25 at that time. 

And I was at several meetings where Charley Hayes was present 
and at one meeting it was stated that Charley Hayes had been sent 
aAvay to school, a school where I don't know, and that also was one of 
the requirements. When you are a party member you are sent to- 
leadership schools to be educated, 

Mr. Arens. When you say educated, do you mean trained in Com- 
munist Party techniques ? 

Mr. Hackney. That is what I mean. 

Mr. Arens. Could you give us a further word with respect to 
Jesse Prosten. I believe you said a few moments ago that during 
your experience in the Communist Party he was the top director of 
Communist Party activities in the meatpacking industry. 

Mr. Hackney. Jesse Prosten was the No. 1 Communist in the 
packing industi*y. He was the one that got his directions from some 
place I don't know of and brought them back to the packinghouse 
workers and he proposed programs, he suggested campaigns to 
strengthen the party, he led discussions in how to build the party 
and he sat in on all the top meetings of the top party people in the 
packinghouse section. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist, William Rix ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes, I know William Rix. lie is from New York 
District 6. I attended caucus meetings with Rix in meetings that we 
had prior to convention or during conventions. In Montreal I recall 
we had a caucus meeting at which Bill Rix was in attendance where 
only party people were present. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist, Donald H. Smith ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes, I knew Donald Smith. He is also from New 
York and I met him through the same way I met Bill Rix. 

Mr. Arens. Could you tell us a word about his activities in the 
Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Hackney. Well, Bill Rix was considered one of the party peo- 
ple in the New York area. 

The only occasion I had to be in the presence of Bill Rix in party 
meetings was when we had these various caucus meetings except the 
one we had in Chicago in 1947 prior to the 1947 convention at which 
time party people throughout the country were present and the sub- 
ject of discussion at that time was to get rid of Phil Weightman, that 
Phil Weightman was leaning too far to the right, you can't work 
with him, can't do anything with him and therefore he must go. 

Mr. Arens. To what extent are the comrades trained in these train- 
ing schools to use noncomrades for the accomplishment of Commmiist 
Party objectives? 

Mr. Hackney. That is one of the purposes of the school is to 
teach the comrades how to work with nonparty people. One of the 
things that comes up quite frequently in party meetings is to keep 
the party member aware that he must know how, know the techniques 
of working with nonparty people. 

Mr. Arens. Do the party people in these days make it known that 
they are members of the conspiracy or do they pose as great humani- 
tarians ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 585 

Mr. Hackney. They don't say they are members of the Communist 
Party. They naturally portray themselves as trade union leaders, 
apt trade union leaders. 

Mr. Arens. Would you tell us whether or not you knew as a com- 
rade, as a member of the Communist Party, Jack Souther ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes, I knew Jack Souther. He also came out of 
the Wilson local, Local 25. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us a little of his activities, if you please. 

Mr. Hackney. Well, Jack was on the executive board of Local 25. 
He wasn't too active until after the 1948 strike, at which time I had 
left the industry. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a comrade, as a member of the Com- 
jnunsit Party, Meyer Stern ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes ; Meyer Stem was district director of District 6 
in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. District 6 of the meatpacking ? 

Mr. Hackney. Of the United Packinghouse Workere. Not meat- 
packing industry because that perhaps embodied some other organi- 
zation. I want to make it clear we are referring to the United Pack- 
inghouse Workers. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly tell us did you know as a comrade, as a member 
of the Communist Party, Olga Zenchuk ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes ; I met Olga Zenchuk in Detroit. I was assigned 
to work in District 7 and I was told when I get in District 7 to look up 
Olga Zenchuk and she could help me getting to the right people in 
Detroit. 

Mr. Arens. Did she do so ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did she identify herself in Communist Party tech- 
niques to you as a member of the conspiracy ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a member of the Communist Party 
Leslie Orear. 

Mr. Hackney. Yes, Leslie Orear was on the section committee of the 
Packinghouse Section. His job was to advance educational program, 
come up with the proper literature that he felt that we needed to edu- 
cate the party members within the Packinghouse Section. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a member of the Communist Party, 
Eachel Ellis? 

Mr. Hackney. I don't know lier by that name at the time. Her 
name was Carter. She was from Local 453. 

Mr. Arens. Apparently Ellis is her married name ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Hackney. I have since learned she married a man by the name 
of Ellis. 

Mr. Arens. Then her maiden name was Rachel Carter and her mar- 
ried name was Rachel Ellis ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Hackney. As I understand it. I knew her as Carter, when I 
knew her. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about her, please. 

Mr. Hackney. I met her in one of the citywide meetings at Van 
Buren and Ashland. At that time she was secretary of UAW, Local 
453. I since learned that she is now employed at District 1, secretary 
to Charles Hayes, the district director of that district. 



586 CORIMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr, Arens. Can you tell us by what devices the Communist opera- 
tors within the packinghouse industry were able to control and influ- 
ence the rank-and-file. It is obvious to us. It ought to be obvious 
to any thinking person that the Communists within any organization 
are numerically in the minority. How did the Communists within 
the packinghouse operation control the majority and conceal from the 
majority the fact that they were hard-core members of a conspiracy? 

Mr. Hackney. A party person is always trained to be aggressive 
union leader, to always be in the forefront fighting for the rights of the 
working people. Naturally when the worker sees a certain man is out 
there fighting for decent wages, working conditions for the packing- 
houes worker, well, he naturally is influenced by that particular man. 
Whenever there is an opportunity to run a slate of officers, they get out 
and work real hard, they get the people elected, not only members of 
the Communist Party but people that are influenced by the party on 
their slate of officers and usually are elected to office. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully submit if it is agreeable 
with the Chair that we have about a 5-minute recess. 

Mr. Willis. That will be agreeable. We will stand in recess for 5 
minutes. 

(Members of the committee present at the time of recess: Repre- 
sentatives Willis and Johansen.) 

(A brief recess.) 

(Members of the committee present after recess: Representatives 
Moulder, Willis, and Johansen.) 

]Mr. Moulder. The committee will be in order. 

Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Hackney, as I commented earlier it has not been 
our intention on this record to exhaust the subject matter with you. 
You have testified in executive session, have you not? 

jNIr. Hackney. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Arens. And you have also been in repeated consultation with 
representatives of this committee, the staff, at wdiich time you have 
supplied considerable information on numerous items of the operation 
of the Communist Party here, have you not? 

Mr. Hackney. I have. 

Mr. xA.RENS. Just so that we may not trespass unduly upon other 
areas, may I ask if there are any items of information germane to the 
subject matter here, which you would like on this record to reveal to 
the committee ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes, I would like to reveal that I was a witness in 
the deportation hearings of Jose Ramirez, who my understanding is 
a field representative of the United Packinghouse Workers. This 
hearing took place in the headquarters of the Immigration Service 
at which hearing I was a witness and I testified for the Government 
in that case. 

Mr. Arens. Are there any other key persons, and I am not asking 
you on this record for the rank-and-file, are there any other key per- 
sons in the Communist operation in the meatpacking industry in the 
Chicago area concerning whom you should like to comment ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes, I would like to comment on Charles Proctor, 
who I understand now that he is a field representative for the United 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 587 

Packinghouse Workers and I know him well because I signed him up 
in the party myself. 

Mr. Arens. Does he spell his name Charles P-r-o-c-t-o-r? 

Mr. Hackney. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Give us just a word then, please, about his activities 
in the Communist Party in the meatpacking industry ? 

Mr. Hackney. Well, Charles Proctor came from the local at which 
time I was president. He later became chairman of the grievance 
committee of Local 26 which I was the president. After much dis- 
cussion and letting him read the Daily Worker I told him what the 
intention of the party was and he was sold to idea and signed appli- 
cation card with me. I since learned he is now a full-time paid 
organizer for the United Packinghouse Workers. 

Mr. Arens. Are there any other key persons who to your certain 
knowledge were members of the Communist Party assigned to and 
working in the packinghouse industry ? 

Mr. Hackney. I have in mind a John Lewis who, I understand, is 
now the president of the Swift local, 

Mr. Arens. I believe you commented with respect to John Lewis? 

Mr. Hackney. Did I? 

Mr, Arens. So that the record may be absolutely clear you, of 
course, are at liberty to comment again. 

Mr. Hackney. I was president of Local 26, At that time John 
Lewis was vice president and when i leit the industry to take a full- 
time job, John Lewis became president and when the operation of his 
department closed down he was transferred, to the Swift plant and 
at that time the party was much concerned because now they had a 
potential leadership in the Swift plant and John Lewis was the party 
member in the Swift local. 

Mr. Arens. Is there another key person ? 

Mr, Hackney, Yes ; there is Milton Gilmore, who at the time I was 
there was president of Local 23, the Teddy Brennan local. There was 
James Keller who was secretary. 

Mr, Arens, Do you here and now testify that you knew each of 
these men to a certainty to be members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr, Hackney, Definitely, 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir, proceed. So the record may be clear 
do not give us on this record the name of any person unless you know 
to a certainty from your experience in the Communist Party and your 
association with that person in a closed party meeting, that that 
person was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Hackney. There was James Keller, who was a full-time paid 
organizer for the Communist Party who was the section organizer 
for the Packinghouse Section of the party at which I was a member 
of the section committee. 

Mr. Arens. Is there another ? 

Mr. Hackney. Those are the important ones. 

Mr. Arens. That is what I mean. I do not want to encumber the 
record just with a number of names. We want only the pattern as 
the chairman announced in the opening statement. If we go into the 
names of all of the comrades who have been identified for us either 
in executive session or consultation, we would have quite a lengthy 
list. 



588 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Is there any other item of information which I may not have elicited 
from yon ? 

Mr. Hackney. I don't think there was any mention of keeping 
records of dues-paying members. 

Mr. Arexs. Would you comment on that, please ? 

Mr. Hackxey. Joe Zabritski, who was a member of the section 
committee, kept records of dues-paying members. He later eventu- 
ally became president of Local 25, the Wilson local. 

Mr. Arens. Was he a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hackney. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Spell his name for us, so the record is clear. 

Mr. Hackney. Z-a-b-r-i-t-s-k-i. 

Mr. Arens. You have commented with respect to him, I am certain. 

Mr. Hackney. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any other item of information that you would 
like to make available to the committee ? 

Mr. Johansen. Mr. Chairman, when the witness refers to dues- 
paying members is he speaking of the union or of the party ? 

Mr. Hackney. I am speaking of the party. 

Mr. Johansen. Thank joii. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any other item of information you would like 
on this record which is germane to the scope of our inquiry ? 

Mr. Hackney. I can't think of any offhand. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, under these circumstances I respect- 
fully submit that will conclude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Willis, do jou have any questions ? 

Mr. Willis. No questions. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Johansen, do you have any questions? 

Mr. Johansen. I would like to ask you to comment a little further 
on one point you made. You said early in your testimony that you 
found that the Communists were misleading the Negro people. I 
would like to have you just comment, if you care to, briefly, on your 
feelings as to the disservice done to the colored people through the 
efforts of the Communist leadership to exploit them for both publicity 
and financial purposes, and particularly if you have any knowledge 
of the extent, if any, to which funds collected ostensibly for the aid of 
the rights and the causes of the Negro citizens were diverted to party 
uses. 

Mr. Hackney. Well, for example, if some incident like a Ijmcliing 
took place in the South it would eventually have a mass rally some 
place, oh, maybe around the Wilson plant or maybe around the 
Armour plant or maybe in Washington Park. A mass rally for the 
purpose of raising funds to bring the people responsible for such 
tragedy to justice and they would have these big rallies and they 
would ask local unions to make contributions. They would ask in- 
dividuals to make contributions and they would take up collections at 
these various rallies for the purpose they said for defending and 
bringing to justice these people that were responsible for these crimes. 

Mr. Moulder. May I interrupt ? In that connection, I believe our 
hearings have revealed and the record will sIioav that in a number of 
instances, under Communist Party leadership, they have agitated dis- 
crimination and cases of that sort in order to bring uj) the proposition 
that there was discrimination. I believe our hearings have revealed 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 589 

instances of that kind, where shootings and other mistreatment of 
members of the Negro race were actually brought about through Com- 
munist Party conspiracy and plans to arouse prejudice and the cry 
of discrimination. 

Mr. Hackney. In manj' cases of that sort. I don't have any par- 
ticular one in mind. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Hackney, we are certainly deeply grateful for 
your testimony. And the information you have given us will be of 
great value in our legislative program of protecting our national de- 
fense and the internal security. We sincerely commend you for 
your courage. You are an honest and patriotic citizen of the greatest 
comitry in the world. You and your people have made great con- 
tributions to our progress and success as a great Nation. Your testi- 
mony corroborates my statement yesterday that even though the 
Negro race has suffered in many ways and although the Communists 
have concentrated their attentions to take advantage of that fact to 
recruit and to gain the support of the Negro people, they have had 
little success. In fact, less success than they have had with all other 
races of people. 

Therefore, under these trying circumstances you and your people 
deserve proper credit and public commendation and respect and un- 
derstanding ; and to you personally, I want to say that you are an able 
and outstanding man, who shows great leadership ability. And I re- 
peat, you are an honest man and although a few may criticize you, 
they will be a very few. But I predict that no one will appear before 
this committee or at any other place to dispute one word or any part 
of your testimon}^ given to this committee today. And with our sin- 
cere thanks and best wishes you are excused as a witness. 

Thank you. 

Call the next witness. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Charles Hayes, please come forward. 

Mr. Moulder. Will you hold up your right hand and be sworn, 
please ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Hayes. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF CHARLES A. HAYES, ACCOMPANIED EY COUNSEL, 
BELFORD V. LAWSON, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

Mr. Hayes. Name, Charles A. Hayes. Address, 5471 Ingleside 
Avenue, Chicago, 111. Occupation, director of District 1 of the United 
Packinghouse Workers of America, AFL-CIO. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena wliich 
was served upon you by this committee ? 

Mr. Hayes. I am. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Hayes. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, please identify yourself on the record. 

Mr. Lawson. Belf ord Lawson, Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Hayes. Would you care to have the subpenas ? 



590 COMMUNIST INPILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. No, you don't need to return the subpena. You may 
keep that. 

Mr. Hayes. All right. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Hayes, do you know the man who preceded you to 
the witness stand, John Hackney ? 

Mr. Hayes. I do know John Hackney. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you known him ? 

Mr. Hayes. Well, I would say since about 1945 or thereabouts. 

Mr. Arens. Was he correct in his testimony a few moments ago 
when he said that he knew you as a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hayes. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it 
might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Would you repeat the position you occupy and how long 
you held it ? 

Mr. Hayes. I have been elected — I was originally elected as direc- 
tor of my union in 1954, 1 think in May. 

Mr. Arens. Have you maintained the position as a director con- 
tinuously since then ? 

Mr. Hayes. I have. Not only am I a director of my union, I am 
also the first Negro vice president of the AFL-CIO here in the State 
of Illinois and a member of the Industrial Union Council Board. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere and when were you born ? 

Mr. Hayes. I was born February 17, 1918 in Cairo, 111. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about your education. 

Mr. Hayes. I am a high school graduate as of 1935 from the Sumner 
High School in Cairo. 

Mr. Arens. Did you receive any further education ? 

Mr. Hayes. I did not. 

Mr. Arens. Have you gone to any training schools ? 

Mr. Hayes. What training schools ? 

Mr. Arens. Any kind of training schools. 

Mr. Hayes. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it might 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, the first principal occupation 
you have had since you concluded your formal education. 

Mr. Hayes. It is quite a long time back. 

Mr. Arens. Just the principal occupations. 

Mr. Hayes. Any occupation I had was principal. After finishing 
high school I worked for a while with Bruce & Co. in Cairo, 111., 
and then the next job I had was an employee with Wilson & Co. 
here in Chicago. 

Mr. Arens. How long did that employment last ? 

Mr. Hayes. I worked initially, started in 1942 and I worked at 
Wilson & Co. until — well, I was severed from the employment of 
Wilson & Co. as a result of the plant closing down in 1955. However, 
I wasn't all that time working for Wilson & Co. I was on leave of 
absence from the company part of the time. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever signed an affidavit under the National 
Labor Relations Act ? 

Mr. Hayes. I have. 

Mr. Arens. And what year was that, do you recall ? 

Mr. Hayes. In 1954. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 591 

Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
'Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hayes. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hayes. I am not. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at 
tmy time in the last 5 years ? 

Mr. Hayes. I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at 
any time since the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act in 1948 requiring 
a non-Communist affidavit ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Hayes. Could you kindly tell me the date when the Taft- 
Hartley law was passed ? 

Mr. Arens. In 1948. 

Mr. Hayes. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Is your declination to answer based upon a state of 
iacts created by yourself in response to the passage of the Taft-Hartley 
Act in 1948? 

Mr. Hayes. Will you restate your question, and don't do it so fast, 
please. 

Mr. Arens. We have just agreed that the Taft-Hartley Act was 
passed in 1948 and you have declined to answer as to whether or not 
you have been a member of the Communist Party at any time since 
the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act and its requirement of an affi- 
davit of non- Communist union officers. I am now asking you is 
your declination to answer based upon a state of facts created by 
yourself in order to avoid the impact of the Taft-Hartley affidavit ? 

Mr. Hayes. Certainly not. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any 
time since the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act ? 

Mr. Hayes. I decline to answer that question on the ground that it 
might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Did you at any time, since the passage of the Taft- 
Hartley Act, resign technical membership in the formal entity known 
as the C^ommunist Party ? 

Mr. Hayes. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it 
might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Did you at any time take any action at the direction of 
the Commmiist Party in order that you could truthfully sign a non- 
Communist affidavit stating in effect that you were not then a member 
•of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hayes. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, that will conclude the staff interroga- 
tion of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions, Mr. Willis ? 

Mr. Hayes. I would like, Mr. Chairman, for the benefit, if I may, 
for the benefit of the congressional leaders who are members of this 
•committee, and for the staff members who represent that department 
■of that committee, to make a statement on behalf of my union. 



592 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Moulder. On what? 

Mr. Hayes. On behalf of my organization. 

Mr. Arens. We are not exploring the nnion. We are exploring 
Communists. We wonld like to ask j^on have yon been a member of 
the Communist Party at any time since 1954? 

Mr. Hayes. I certainly have not, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Moulder. Any questions? 

Mr. Johansen. Did I understand the Avitness to say that he was the 
first member of his race to be vice president of the Illinois AFL-CIO ? 

Mr. Hayes. Illinois State Federation of Labor and the Industrial 
Union Council of the State of Illinois. 

Mr. Johansen. You are that at this time ? 

Mr. Hayes. I am that. 

Mr. Johansen. I thought I detected considerable pride in that. 

Mr. Hayes. Yes. 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. Mr. Chairman, to me it is a deep tragedy that that 
pride has to be diluted by the invoking of the fifth amendment in this 
hearing. 

Mr. Moulder. I believe I understood you to say vou were born in 
Cairo, 111. 

Mr. Hayes. Cairo, 111. 

Mr. Moulder. And you are a married man ? 

Mr, Hayes. lam. 

Mr. Moulder. Family ? 

Mr. Hayes. Wife and two kids. 

Mr. Moulder. Did you serve in the Armed Forces ? 

Mr. Hayes. I did not. 

Mr. Moulder. You did not serve in the Armed Forces? 

Mr. Hayes. No. 

Mr. Moulder. In comiection with what Mr. Johansen said, I want 
it thoroughly understood, speaking for myself and I believe the other 
members of the committee, that your efforts at work in coimection with 
the improvement of the working conditions, wages, and welfare of 
organized labor and its members are certainly not to be branded as 
Communist Party activities. 

Mr. Hayes. Most certainly not, Congressman. 

Mr. Moulder. Also I want to congratulate you in your statement 
that you certainly are not, as I understand it, in any way associated 
with the Communist Party or Communist Party activities. 

Mr. Hayes. That is right. 

Mr. Moulder. And you are, if I understand it, clearly in accord 
with the AFL and CIO program in ridding their membership of 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Hayes. I would like to have this committee know very well 
that my organization has lived up to, and is living up to, the codes 
of ethical practices of AFL-CIO. 

Mr. Arens. May I inquire a moment, then, please? Are you now 
against the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hayes. I most certainly am. 

Mr. Arens. Then why not give this committee, while you are under 
oath now in this public session, the knowledge that we know you have 
respecting the Communist Party, respecting Communists, respecting 
the Communist operation in the meat industry? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 593 

Mr. Hates. The reason I don't answer that question, Counsel, is 
because I am afraid that if I do it might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, if you told this committee 
truthfully while you are under oath information of which you are 
presently possessed respecting the Communist operation in the meat 
industry among the packinghouse workers and the like, you would 
be supplying information which might be used against you in a crim- 
inal proceeding? 

Mr. Hayes. I refuse to answer that question, too. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that will conclude the staff inter- 
rogation of this witness. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will 
be Kachel Carter Ellis. 

Rachel Carter Ellis, please come forward. 

( Represent ative Moulder left the room.) 

Mr. Willis (presiding). Please raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mrs. Ellis. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HACHEL CARTEU ELLIS, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, BELFORD V. LAWSON, JE. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mrs. Ellis. My name is Rachel Ellis. I live at 7140 South 

Mr. Arens. Would it be convenient for you to keep your voice up 
a little bit or get closer to the mike ? The acoustics are very poor in 
here. 

Mrs. Ellis. My name is Rachel Ellis. I live at 7140 South Michi- 
gan Avenue, Chicago. My occupation is secretary. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities ? 

Mrs. Ellis. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel? 

Mrs. Ellis. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Lawson. Belford Lawson, Wasliington, D.C. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, ma'am, a word about your occu- 
pation- 
Mrs. Ellis. I am employed as a secretary to the District Director 
of the United Packinghouse Workers, District 1. 

Mr. Arens. And who is your immediate superior? 

Mrs. Ellis. That is Mr.'Charles Hayes. 

Mr. Arens. That is the man who just left the stand ? 

Mrs. Ellis. That is he. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been so employed ? 

Mrs. Ellis. I have been employed since Marcli of 195G in that 
capacity. 



594 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. What was your employment immediately prior to yom' 
present employment? 

Mrs. Ellis. I was employed as a secretary at the office of Local 453, 
United Automobile Workers. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere? 

Mrs. Ellis. In Chicago. 

Mr. Arens. For how long ? 

Mrs. Ellis. Possibly a year. 

Mr. Arens. What was your employment immediately prior to that? 

Mrs. Ellis. I was employed as manager of a printing establishment. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word, please, about your education. 

Mrs. Ellis. I attended junior college in the city and the Art Insti- 
tute in this city. 

Mr. Arens. Raise your voice, please, ma'am. We couldn't hear you. 

Mrs. Ellis. I attended the junior college and Art Institute in this 
city. 

Mr. Arens. Have you received any other training? Have you at- 
tended any other training schools ? 

Mrs. Ellis. I have attended — would you repeat that question ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, ma'am. Have you received any other training, 
other than the formal education which you have just described? 

Mrs. Ellis. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of John Edward 
Cooke? 

Mrs. Ellis. I do not know a man by that name. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of John Hackney. 

Mrs. Ellis. I know John Hackney. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity have you known John Hackney ? 

Mrs. Ellis. I have known him only as a trade union member. 

Mr. Arens. Have you known him in any other capacity? 

Mrs. Ellis. No, I have not known him in any other capacity. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Hackney testified this morning that while he was 
a member of the Communist Party he knew you as a member of the 
Communist Party. Was he in error on that testimony or was he 
correct ? 

Mrs. Ellis. I decline to answer that question on the basis that it 
may incriminate me. 

]Mr. xVrens. Have you ever been connected witli the Chicago Com- 
mittee of Negro Youth? 

Mrs. Ellis. I don't recall that. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mrs. Ellis. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that 
it may incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Ellis. I am not now a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever resigned technical membership in the 
Communist Party so that you could take an oath and deny member- 
ship in the Communist Party yet maintained yourself in the Com- 
munist operation? 

Mrs. Ellis. I decline to answer that question on tlie basis that it 
may incriminate me. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 595 

Mr. Moulder. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any 
time since the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act ? 

Mrs. Ellis. I decline to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever signed a non-Communist affidavit ? 

Mrs. Ellis. I have never signed a non-Communist affidavit. 

Mr. Arens. Have you any time in the last two years been a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Ellis. Would you repeat the question ? 

Mr. Arens. Have you any time in the course of the last two years 
been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Ellis. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. Have you at any time in the course of the last year 
and a half been a member of the Communist Party ? 

(The wdtness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Ellis. I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Have you any time in the course of the last fourteen 
months been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Ellis. I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Have you any time in the course of the last sixteen 
months been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Ellis. I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Have you any time in the course of the last seventeen 
months been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Ellis. I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now against the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Ellis. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

(Representative JMoulder reentered the room.) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con- 
clude the stall' interrogation of this witness. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will 
be Leo Turner. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which 
you are about to give before the committee will be the truth, the 
wholes truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Turner. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF LEO TTJRNEE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BELFORD V. LAWSON, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

Mr. Turner. Leo Turner, 5342 South Ivimbark, Chicago; field, 
representative of the United Packinghouse Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today, Mr. Turner, in response 
to a subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities ? 

Mr. Turner. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Lawson. Belford Lawson, Washington. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Turner, where are you employed ? 



596 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Turner. I am employed in District 1 of the United Pack- 
inj^house Workers. 

]\Ir. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Tur>7ER. As a field representative. 

Mr. Arens. How Ions: have you been so employed? 

Mr. Turner. I was hired by Mr. A. T, Stephens on November 8, 
1949. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born ? 

Mr. Turner. June 24, 1913, Aberdeen, Wash. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word, please, about your formal education. 

Mr. Turner. I left high school in Aurora, Minn., at the end of 3 
years of high school. 

Mr. Arens. Did that complete your formal education? 

Mr. Turner. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. And then give us the principal occupations you have 
had since 3'ou completed j'^our formal education. 

Mr. Turnp:r. Well, I got out of high school into the Hoover de- 
pression, and I would say that most of the time prior to going to 
work for the unions I was working on WPA. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any other principal activity in addition 
to your WPA work until you went to work for the unions? 

Mr. Turner. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. "WTien did you complete your foniial education in 
high school ? 

Mr. Turner. 1931. 

Mr. Arens. Did you shortly thereafter become educational direc- 
tor of the Young Com.munist League ? 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer that question on the ground that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now a photostatic reproduction of 
the Communist Daily Worker of July 28, 1936, in which an article 
appears entitled "Youth to Aid C.P. Ticket in Elections." It tells 
about a number of people who are in official capacity with the Young 
Communist League, including Leo Turner, educational director of 
the league. I now display this document to you and ask you to look 
at it and tell us w^hether or not that refreshes your recollection, and 
whether or not you are the Leo Turner referred to in the Communist 
publication, the Daily Worker, as educational director of the Yoimg 
Communist League. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(The witness conferred witli his counsel.) 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer on the ground it might tend to 
incriminate me. 

(Document marked "Turner Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I display to you a photostatic reproduction of the 
Communist Daily Worker of New York, May 25, 1936, in which 
an article appears, "Youth March May 30 in Fight Against W^ar," 
signed by Leo Turner. Would you kindly look at this article and 
tell us while you are under oath whether or not you are the Leo 
Turner who authored that article appearing in the Daily Worker? 
(Document handed to witness.) 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 597 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer on the grounds that it might tend 
to incriminate me. 

(Document marked "Turner Exhibit No. 2," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I display to you a photostatic copy of an article ap- 
pearing in the Sunday Worker, January 25, 1942, in which a num- 
ber of persons are petitioning for the release of the then secretary 
of the Communist Party, Earl Browder, including a man listed as 
Leo Turner of Oakland, Calif. Kindly look at this document as I 
display it to you and tell this committee while you are under oath 
whether or not you are the Leo Turner that participated in that 
enterprise. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer on the grounds that it might tend 
to incriminate me. 

(Document marked "Turner Exhibit No. 3," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Did you participate in the picketing on behalf of the 
11 Communists who were convicted before Judge Medina in New 
York City? 

(The witness conferred with liis counsel.) 

Mr. Turner. I did not. 

Mr. Arens. Did you lend your name and your position on behalf 
of the intervention for the 11 Communist leaders? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer that question on the ground it 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now a photostatic reproduction of the 
Communist Daily Worker of October 18, 1949 respecting the inter- 
vention by a number of people on behalf of the 11 Communists who 
were convicted in New York City, including, according to this listing 
in the Daily Worker, one Leo Turner. Kindly look at this article 
and tell tliis committee whether or not it refreshes your recollection, 
and whether or not you are the Leo Turner who was listed there 
and, if so, if you consciously made your name available for that 
enterprise. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer on the grounds that it might tend 
to incriminate me. 

(Document marked "Turner Exliibit No. 4," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Turner, what is the principal law on the statute 
books of the U.S. Government against Communists? Do you know? 

Mr. Turner. I believe it is the Smith Act. 

Mr. Arens. What have you done, can you tell us, to cause the repeal 
of the Smith Act? 

Mr. Turner. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now, if you please, a photostatic repro- 
duction of the Communist Daily People's World, January 2, 1952, 
in which a number of persons are listed as participants in an assembly 
of delegates for the repeal of the Smith Act, including Leo Turner, 

41635—59 7 



598 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

identified in this publication as field representative of the CIO United 
Packinghouse Workers. Kindly look at this document and tell tliis 
committee while' you are under oath whether or not that refreshes 
your recollection and whether or not you consciously participated in 
that enterprise. 

f Document handed to witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer on the grounds that it might tend 
to incriminate me. 

(Document marked "Turner Exhibit No. 5," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Lee Lundgren ? 

Mr. Turner. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity have you known him ? 

Mr. Turner. I knew him when I worked with the United Electrical, 
Radio and Machine Workers. 

Mr. Arens. Have you known him in any other capacity ? 

Mr. Turner. I believe later he became a representative of the In- 
ternational Union of Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers. 

Mr. Arens. And have you known him in any other capacity ? 

Mr. Turner. I don't believe so. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Hackney ? 

Mr. Turner. Very slightly. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Carl Nelson ? 

Mr. Turner. I know him so casually that the testimony he gave 
here yesterday was false with respect to some of my activities. 

Mr. Arens. Was his testimony correct when he said he knew you as 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Turner. I am not a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party 
at any time since the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act requiring that 
certain union officials must sign a non-Communist affidavit? 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Did you resign technical membership in the Communist 
Party but maintain yourself in the Communist operation so that you 
could take an oath and truthfully deny membership in the formal 
entity known as the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now against the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Turner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a statement. A 
statement made here yesterday that I was in Spain by one of the 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 599 

witnesses that was produced here. I want to categorically state under 
oath that that statement was false. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the only part of the testimony with respect to 
yourself that was false ? 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer that on the grounds that it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Was the rest of the testimony true when you were 
identified as a member of the conspiratorial apparatus known as the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Turner. I decline to answer that on the grounds it might tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Do you presently have information which you can 
supply the United States Government via this committee respecting 
the techniques and operations of this conspiratorial organization 
designed to overthrow the Government of the United States known 
as the Communist Party ? 

^ Mr. Turner. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that will conclude the staff inter- 
rogation of this witness. 

Mr. Moulder. I want to announce for the record that it will be 
necessary for me to return to Washington and I will be unable to 
be present for the rest of the hearings. Mr. Willis is designated chair- 
man to preside at the conduct of the hearings. 

The committee will recess until 2 p.m. 

(Wliereupon, at 11:50 a.m., the hearing was recessed until 2 p.m. 
of the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION, WEDNESDAY, MAY 6, 1959 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will please come to order. 
^ (Subcommittee members present: Eepresentatives Willis, presid- 
mg, and Johansen.) 

Mr. Willis. Counsel, please call your next witness. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, may the record show, if you please, sir, 
the presence of yourself as chairman of the subcommittee and the 
presence of the gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Johansen, constituting 
a quorum of the subcoimnittee ? 

Mr. Willis. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Dency, Albert P. Dency, please come forward. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Dency. I do. 

TESTIMONY OP ALBERT P. DENCY 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. ' 

Mr. Dency. My name is Albert Dency. I live at 2453 North Tripp 
Avenue, Chicago, 111. 

Mr. Arens. And your occupation ? 

Mr. Dency. My occupation is tool and die maker. 

Mr. Arens. Where are you employed ? 



600 COMMUNIST INTILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Dency. Mr. Arens, I will be very pleased to answer this ques- 
tion. However, I would like to be assured that if I do answer and 
give you the name of the company, that I will not be fired from the 
place where I am employed at present, 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing todav in response to a subpena that 
was served upon you by this committee f 

Mr. Dency. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You are not represented by counsel apparently. 

Mr. Dency. No, I am not. 

Mr. Arens. You know you have the privilege of counsel. 

Mr. Dency. I know I have, but I don't have $500 to pay for the 
counsel. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Dency, where and when were you born ? 

Mr. Dency. I was born February 15, 1921, in Yugoslavia. 

Mr. Arens. When did you come to the United States? 

Mr. Dency. I came to the United States on December 7, 1937. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a naturalized citizen ? 

Mr. Dency. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere and when were you naturalized ? 

Mr. Dency. I was naturalized in Waukegan, 111., approximately 
early part of 1943. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever used any name other than the name 
Albert P. Dency, D-e-n-c-y ? 

Mr. Dency. Yes, sir, I did; my name origmally spelled, Z-d-e-n- 
c-a-j. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word, please, about your education. 

Mr. Dency. I have very little formal education. I attended Cath- 
olic seminary school for 2 years in Europe. And here I have attended 
night school for a while at University of Chicago and also Lake 
Forest. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the only education you have had ? 

Mr. Dency. It is the only education in the formal sense. 

Mr. Arens. Have you received any training in any training schools 
of any kind ? 

Mr. Dency. I have attended Abraham Lincoln School. 

Mr. Arens. Where was that ? 

Mr. Dency. Extension courses I attended at Waukegan, 111. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien did you live in Waukegan, 111., over what period 
of time ? 

Mr. Dency. I did not live in Waukegan excej)t for a very short 
period of time. I lived in North Chicago, which is a part or at least 
close by Waukegan. 

Mr. Arens. Does the figure E-88239 register with your mind on 
any score, E-88239? 

Mr. Dency. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What was that? 

JSIr. Dency. That is my — I think that is my number, union card 
number. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dency. No, I have never been a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been knowingly under discipline of the 
Communist Party ? 



COMMUNIST rNFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES; — CHICAGO 601 

Mr. Dency. I have not been knowingly under discipline of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. It is the information of this committee that you were 
a member of the Communist Party in Waukegan, 111., that you were 
chairman of the Waukegan Communist Party Club in 1949, 1950, and 
1951. If that is in error, please set the record straight while you are 
under oath. 

Mr. Dency. I have been the chairman of the American Veterans 
Committee in Waukegan, a chapter of American Veterans Commit- 
tee. As far as the time that you have given I have not lived in 
Waukegan for the year 1951 at all. 

Mr. Arens. Do you say now categorically without equivocation, 
that you have never been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dency. Yes, sir, I so state. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. We appreciate your appearance. 

Mr. Dency. May I make a statement, if I possibly can ? 

Mr. Willis. Well, if you make it short. 

Mr. Dency. I will make it very short, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Willis. Let me say this. You are not represented by counsel, 
and therefore I want to be as liberal with you as possible. But please 
do not make an extended statement. 

Mr. Dency. I will not make any derogatory statement at all. How- 
ever, I want to point out to one fact, that I as a chairman of the com- 
mittee to lift suspension of Local 113, which is the rank and file union 
in my union, feel that by being called before this committee, this com- 
mittee willing or unwilling, I do not know, has served a purpose con- 
trary to the objectives for which the membership of Local 113 or at 
least a very great segment is striving for, namely to lift suspension of 
their organization. And in view of that fact, I feel that the com- 
mittee 

Mr. Willis. I would not enter into that field if I were you. It will 
not do you any good and counsel will perhaps have to reexamine you 
and if I were you I would not pursue that. That is my advice, my 
sincere advice. 

Mr. Dency. Thank you. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Francis William McBain. 

Please come forward. Please remain standing while the chairman 
administers an oath. 

Mr. Willis. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are 
about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. McBain. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF FEANCIS WILLIAM McBAm, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, PEARL M. HART 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 

Mr. McBain. My name is Francis McBain. I live at 3116 West 
Montrose Avenue, Chicago, I am a model maker by trade. 



602 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. Wliere are you employed ? 

Mr. McBain. Well, I would rather not state where I am employed. 

Mr. Akens. We will hold that for the time being. 

Mr. McBain. I would also 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subj)ena 
which was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities ? 

Mr. McBain. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. McBain. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mrs. Hart. Pearl M. Hart, 30 North La Salle Street, Chicago 2, 
111. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. McBain, where and when were you born? 

Mr. McBain. Could I — I would like to raise a question before — 
I have appeared before this committee before, seven years ago. I 
requested my lawyer to draw up a letter to send to the chairman 
of this committee. Honorable Mr. Walter, in regard to me being pub- 
lically exposed to this committee again. I would like the privilege 
of reading this letter into the record, if I could. I think it is very — — 

Mr. Arens. The rules of the committee provide you must submit 
any written statement of any kind in advance. 

Mr. Willis. You may submit it to counsel, and we will examine it 
and give it consideration. We can't permit you to read a letter we 
know nothing about. Submit it to counsel. It will serve the same 
purpose. 

Mr. McBain. Could I ask if Mr. Walter has received this letter? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Walter is not here. 

Mr. McBain. I see. 

Mr. Arens. Now kindly tell us where and when you were born. 

Mr. McBain. I was born in Bottineau, N.D., July 31, 1905. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word about your education. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. McBain. You want my 

Mr. Arens. Just a word about your education. 

Mr. McBain. I have 4 years of high school, 2 years of engineering. 

Mr. Arens. And when did you complete your formal education and 
where ? 

Mr. McBain. One year I went to North Dakota State Engineering, 
that was 1923 and 1924. Then in the meantime there was a 2-year 
college in my hometown which was the qualified State college. And 
I went there 1 year in 1930, I believe, and finished a 2-year course 
which was like 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. McBain. About a junior degree in engineering A A or some- 
thing. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat year was that, please ? 

Mr. McBain. I think that was 1930, within the year of that. 

Mr. Arens. Had you received any other training or schooling other 
than the training or schooling which you have just recited? 

Mr. McBain. Yes, I have. I put 33 months in the Navy. I was 
an airplane mechanic on a flattop. I went through 4 months' training, 
16 weeks here in Chicago at an advanced airplane school where I 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 603 

studied complete, all-around airplane mechanic training, and from 
there I was assigned to a squadron and went into the Pacific. 

Mr. Arens. Were you discharged from the Navy then ? 

Mr. McBain. I was discharged right after the war in 1945. 

Mr. Arens. Give us the principal employments you have had smce 
you were discharged from the Navy. 

Mr. McBain. Well, I am trying to think back. One thing I was 
questioned 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. McBain. I would like to raise a question on the fact that it is 
quite a while ago and this 

Mr. Arens. Just the principal employments that you recollect. 

Mr. McBain. I was going to make the request that since this is 
already in the record the last time I appeared before this committee 
I was a little fresh in my memory then. It was 7 years ago. 

Mr. Willis. Just do the best you can. 

Mr. McBain. To repeat it ? 

Mr. Arens. Let us go back and get the more current ones then. 
How long have you been employed in your present employment? 

Mr. McBain. About, I would say, 5 months, I suppose. 

Mr. Arens. What was your employment immediately prior to your 
present employment? 

Mr. McBain. This is going to be involved. I have to stop and 
think because since I was before this committee 7 years ago I have 
been blacklisted by the results, the publicity in the papers was used 
as a blacklist against me every time I got a job. All you have to do is 
refer me to what it said in the newspapers in 1952 and for me to start 
back and remember all the places I have worked in the lapsed years, 
it is impossible. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall just the first place you worked prior to 
your present employment ? 

Mr. McBain. Let me think. I believe it was Models for Industry, 
I believe. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you work there ? 

Mr. McBain. Probably 6 or 7 months. I am not so sure. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. McBain. First I would like to raise some things. 

Mr. Arens, Would you kindly answer the question? Are you a 
member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. McBain. I just want to raise the point first. I have no idea 
of what this committee has in mind. I have nothing to do with the 
packing workers. I understand your position on the packing workers. 

Mr. Arens. I would be glad to explain that to you. 

Mr. McBain. I would like to know. 

Mr. Arens. I would very gladly explain it to you. You are going 
to answer the question, I take it. The basis, the reason I am going 
into this question is this, sir : The Committee on Un-American Activi- 
ties has a double mandate from the Congress of the United States. 
One is to maintain a surveillance, a supervision as it were, over the 
administration and operation of the Internal Security Act, the Com- 
munist Control Act, and all security laws within the purview of this 
committee. In order for this committee to do that it must find out 



604 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

who are the Communists, what are the Communists doing, where are 
the Communists engaged, what are the Communist techniques, what 
are their strategies, what are their tactics. 

The second general jurisdiction of this committee is to constantly 
develop recommendations, proposals to amend and change the exist- 
ing security laws so that we can cope with this conspiracy so far as it 
is legislatively possible. 

We have summoned you before this committee because on the basis 
of confidential information we believe that you have current informa- 
tion respecting the tecliniques, the strategies, the tactics, the opera- 
tion of this conspiratorial force which is sweeping the world and 
which threatens security and liberty everywhere, known as the Com- 
munist Party. 

Now, with that as a point of departure in our discussion, kindly 
tell us, are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. McBain. First, I would like to know if this question — I 
think that I understand your position, I have heard that before. 
That hasn't specificity to my notion clear enough if I am going to 
answer this question 

Mr. Arens. If I may go one step further, while you are under oath 
tell us 

Mr. McBain. Let me finish my sentence. 

Mr. Arens. I solicit from you now, as to whether or not you are 
a member of the Communist Party, and if you tell us, "Yes, I am now 
a member of the Communist Party," then I intend to pursue that and 
ask you about present techniques, present strategies, present tactics 
of the Communist Party, so that this subcommittee can return to 
Washington with this information and appraise it along with other 
information which we are gathering from the four comers of this 
Nation, with the end in view of appraising proposed changes in the 
security laws in order to cope with this conspiratorial force, known 
as the Communist Party. 

Now for the third time, sir, would you kindly tell this committee, 
while you are under oath, are you now a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. McBain. My answers to questions certainly should be based 
in general on things now 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now 
be ordered and directed to answer the last outstanding principal ques- 
tion, namely, are you now a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Willis. Yes. I direct you to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. McBain. I have answered that. 

Mr. Arens. Sir, you are reading from a prepared statement? 

Mr. McBain. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us who prepared that statement. 

Mr. McBain. This was prepared 

Mr. Arens. Was that statement prepared by any person known 
by you to be a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. McBain. Look, I have no way to know whether my lawyer is 
a rnember of the Communist Party or not, and I am not going to be 
intimidated trying to Red-bait my lawyer. I asked my lawyer, "Wait 
a minute. I don't like getting pushed around here." I have a right 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 605 

to have my lawyer tell me the standard answers. I am not a lawyer, 
I don't 

Mr. Arens. You are reading standard answers I take it. 

Mr. McBain. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. That was prepared by your lawyer. 

Mr. McBain. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Go right ahead and read it. 

(The witness conferred with his lawyer.) 

Mr. McBain. These are constitutional answers. Now this I think 
that I 

Mr. Arens. Go ahead and read, if you please. 

Mr. McBain. Read this. I want it for the record. 

Mr. Arens. Go right ahead and read them, please. 

Mr. McBain. What I stated before, I answered these questions 
before in 1952. So that the requirement to answer the same again 
now can serve no useful purpose, and I regard it merely as an effort 
on the part of the committee to expose me for the purpose of exposure. 
I therefore refuse to answer the questions for the following constitu- 
tional reasons : 

(a) I am unenlightened as to the subject to which this question is 
pertinent. I therefore am unable to answer it because it is not perti- 
nent to any issue which your committee has been directed to inquire 
into. 

I also decline to answer on the grounds of the first amendment to 
the Constitution of the United States which guarantees me the freedom 
of speech that I can talk to who I want, it wasn't meant that I talk to 
myself ; the freedom of press, to read what I want and what should be 
printed; and so assemble and meet people without being pried into. 
That is my personal affair guaranteed by this first amendnient. Now 
I resent this committee overriding the first amendment. 

(c) For the reason that the inquiry infers an encroachment upon 
the judicial power of the United States. 

And for the reason that the question constitutes an unreasonable 
search under the fourth amendment. You have me out in public 
probing into my brain. I don't think you have the authority to dig 
into what I am thinking about. 

(e) For the further reason that the question denies me due process 
under the fifth amendment to the Constitution in that it deprives me 
of property without due process of law. I lost a day's pay to come 
down here. I have been blacklisted, blackballed by this committee, 
and this is my living. This sort of thing is depriving me of my prop- 
erty, my paycheck, the right to make a living, support my family. 

For the further reason that under the fifth amendment to the 
Constitution I have been twice placed in jeopardy, by reason of the 
fact that I appeared before this committee resulting in the loss of my 
jobs over and over again, directly tied up with the blacklisting of me; 
my picture all over the newspapers so I can be blackballed and black- 
listed, that I have a problem to support my family. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. McBain. And last and finally, the further reason is that under 
the fifth amendment to the Constitution of the United States this 
unauthorized committee has absolutely no power to make me or to 
force me to testify in any way against myself. 



606 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Arexs. Do you honestly apprehend, sir, that if you gave us 
a truthful answer while you are now under oath as to whether or not 
you are this instant a member of the Communist Party, you would be 
supplying information which might be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. McBain. I think I made my statement. 

Mr. Aeens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be 
ordered and directed to answer that question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Willis. That is a perfectly good request because it is a test 
of your sincerity in the invocation of the plea, so I order you to answer 
the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. McBain. I would like to have him repeat that question, please. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, sir, that if you told this 
committee truthfully while you are under oath whether or not you are 
this instant a member of the Communist Party, you would be supply- 
ing information which might be used against you in a criminal pro- 
ceeding? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. McBain. I don't believe this committee has the right to make 
such a test against me but in answering this I use the same answer I 
have before. If you want me to read this or if you want to show it in 
the record that this is my answer, either way it is the best, but I chal- 
lenge the committee the right to make any test on me, the authority. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. McBain. And I am refusing to answer for the same reasons as 
I heretofore 

Mr. Arens. Do you presently have knowledge respecting the current 
operation of the conspiratorial force, known as the Communist Party, 
in the Chicago area ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question ? 

Mr. McBain. This committee is again trying to probe into my mind, 
what is in my mind, and so forth, which as I stated before 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. You are excused. And you may claim your voucher, 
and you are so reminded. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Mr. Edwin Alexander. 

Kindly come forward, Mr. Alexander. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Alexander. I do. 

Mr. Chairman, my counsel has asked me, Mr. Chairman, that you 
furnish him with a copy of the statement of purposes of the committee 
and the rules of the committee, since he was not present yesterday 
when they were read. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES^ — CHICAGO 607 

Mr. Arens. We will make them available in just a second as soon 
as we dig them out here, after you have been sworn. 

Mr. Alexander. Yes. 

Mr. Chairman, may I ask one other thing in regard to the taking of 
pictures during the conduct of testimony ? 

Mr. Willis. Yes. If you object to it, then it will be stopped right 
now. 

Mr. Alexander. Yes, I do. Thank you very much. 

TESTIMONY OF EDWIN A. ALEXANDER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
WILLARD J. LASSEES AND E. RAYMOND MARKS, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Alexander. My name is Edwin A. Alexander. I live at 2211 
East 97th Street, Chicago, 111. My occupation, I am a member of the 
professional staff of a philanthropic social work agency, the Jewish 
Federation, Metropolitan Chicago. I am responsible for raising the 
deficit funds and the capital building funds for a group of some H 
social agencies in Chicago which I consider to be very worthwhile 
organizations. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
served upon you by the Committee on Un-American Activities? 

Mr. Alexander. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Alexander. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, would you kindly identify yourself ? 

Mr. Lassers. My name is Willard J. Lassers, of Chicago, 111. 

Mr. Marks. F. Eaymond Marks, Jr., of Chicago, 111. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere and when were you born ? 

Mr. Alexander. On June 25, 1917, Bronx, New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, please, a word about your education. 

Mr. Alexander. I went to high school, DeWitt Clinton High School, 
New York City, and attended the College of the City of New York. 

Mr. Arens. When did you graduate from the College of the City 
of New York? 

Mr. Alexander. I did not graduate from the College of the City of 
New York. 

Mr. Arens. When did you complete your education there ? 

Mr. Alexander. Approximately 1933 or 1934. 

Mr. Arens. Did that complete your formal education ? 

Mr. Alexander. My formal education ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Alexander. Well, it all depends what sense you want to take 
that in. I attended the Allied Technical Institute in Chicago about 
1949, studying machinist trade and this last, just recently within the 
past few months I was a student at Roosevelt College extension pro- 
gram creative writing workshop. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed at your present 
place of employment ? 

Mr. Alexander. Since January 13, 1958. 

Mr. Arens. What was your employment immediately prior to your 
present employment ? 



608 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Alexander. Immediately prior to that I have been unemployed 
for close to a month. Before that I was engaged in the tool and die 
makers trade. The last company I worked for specifically was the 
Zeitergraf Co., for which I worked until 3 days before Christmas 1958, 
at which time I was laid off because the company went out of business. 

Mr. Arens. Were you living in New York at the time that you ob- 
tained your degree there — excuse me, completed your education there, 
what training you did receive ? 
Mr. Alexander. At the College of the City of New York ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Alexander. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you next live, where was your next place 
of residence ? 

Mr. Alexander. City of Chicago. 

Mr. Arens, And over what period of time were you then in con- 
tinuous residence in the city of Chicago ? 

Mr. Alexander. Chicago? That was so long ago that it would be 
hard — I wouldn't like to be held to its accuracy. I would estimate 
approximately 6 months. 

Mr. Arens. Then where did you go ? 

Mr. Alexander. Los Angeles. 

Mr, Arens. How long were you there? 

Mr. Alexander. Again approximately 6 months. 

Mr. Arens. What occasioned your trip to Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Alexander. My job from 1934 approximately, the time I left 
City College, after a few months, later I was employed as a field organ- 
izer, as a regional organizer, first for the National Student League and 
then for the American Student League. This required that my first 
area of activity was Chicago, where I went, and then I was sent by the 
national committee of that organization to the Los Angeles area to 
be the California representative. 

Mr. Abens. About what year are we in now ? 

Mr. Alexander. What is that ? 

Mr. Arens. About what year are we in now ? 

Mr. Alexander. Well 

Mr. Arens. Roughly speaking? 

Mr. Alexander. Roughly speaking 1934r-35. 

Mr, Arens. All right, sir. Wliat was your next employment? 

Mr. Marks. Counsel, do you mind if he smokes ? 

Mr. Arens. It is proliibited in the courtroom. 

What was your next employment ? 

Mr. Alexander. My next employment after that was as a full-time 
official for the district office of the Young Communist League of 
California. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time did you serve in the district 
office of the Young Communist League? 

Mr. Alexander. There was one interruption. I would say again it 
is difficult to say exact dates, approximately 1935 to about somewhere in 
the early 1940's. During that period there was one interruption. I 
was for a period of approximately 2 years out of that period, I was a 
restaurant worker in the city of San Francisco, and I was elected to 
two full-time posts in the Restaurant Workers' Union of the AFL. I 
served as assistant secretary of the Miscellaneous Employees' Union, 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 609 

the Hotel Restaurant Employees' International Alliance, and I served 
as business agent of the Hotel Restaurant Employees' International 
Alliance and Miscellaneous Employees' Union in San Francisco for 
a short period during that time. 

Mr. Arens. Would you tell us the specific title you had with the 
Young Communist League, please ? 

Mr. Alexander. I believe while I was in California that I had two 
titles. One was a district educational director. One was a district 
organizational director. 

Mr. Arens. When did you become disassociated from the full-time 
work with the Young Communist League ? 
Mr. Alexander. Again I couldn't be certain of the exact date. I 

moved from California 

Mr. Arens. Was it in the early 1940's ? 
Mr. Alexander. From the Young Communist League ? 
Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Alexander. Yes. I graduated from the Young Communist 
League and became a full-time official in the Communist Party. 

Mr, Arens. When did you become a full-time official in the Commu- 
nist Party, just roughly speaking ? 
Mr. Alexander. Very roughly in the early 1940's. 
Mr. Arens. Tell us, when did you join the Communist Party ? 
Mr. Alexander. I believe I joined the Communist Party in approxi- 
mately 1934 or 1935. I was a member of the Young Communist League 
for a short period without being a member of the Communist Party 
and then joined tlie Com.munist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us how long you maintained your membership in 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Alexander. I maintained my membership in the Communist 
Party from approximately 1934 until 1948. 

Mr. Arens. May I inquire, have you ever made available to a con- 
gressional committee or any agency of the Government, facts respect- 
ing your membership in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Alexander. I have never been asked by any Government agency 
these facts before. This is the first occasion at which I have been asked 
them, and I gladly volunteered them. 

Mr. Chairman, may I state something surrounding the circumstances 
of withdrawing from the Communist Party in 1948 ? 

Mr. Arens. I expect to take you over the whole ground so we can 
take in a uniform pattern here which I think would be easier for you 
and be more clear for us, if you please. 

Mr. Alexander. Hope you will. Very relevant why I 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. Very delighted to pursue tliis with you. 
Now, tell us where and when you joined the Communist Party and 
in your own words, and I will try to restrain myself until I have a par- 
ticular question to fill in, where and when you joined the Communist 
Party and in your own words the various posts that you held in the 
Communist Party. Then we will come back and get additional infor- 
mation. 

Mr. Alexander. All right. 

Mr. Arens. I want to say now, so there will be no sense of us being 

at all other than completely open and aboveboard 

Mr. Alexander. Right. 



610 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. We did not, until you just said so, know that you were 
going to tell this committee of your Communist career. We did know 
of your Communist career. We did not know, had no basis on which 
to suspect that you would tell us of your Communist career. 

Now, proceed at your own pace, sir, to tell us where and when 
you joined the Conmiunist Party and the various posts you held in 
the Communist Party up until you disassociated yourself from the 
Communist Party until 1948. 

Mr. Alexander. I did not disassociate myself from the Communist 
Party in 1948. 

Mr. Arens. We will ^et up to that in a little while. 

Mr. Alexander. I joined the Communist Party in approximately 
1934 or 1935. I have already detailed to you the posts i held in the 
Young Communist League. I was requested to go to Seattle, Wash., 
by the national committee of the Young Communist League, serve as 
district organizer of the YCL for the States of Washington, Oregon 
in the early 1940's. This I did. I accepted it. I accepted the re- 
quest and went. 

For a short period I was requested by the national committee of the 
Yomig Communist League to return to New York City and serve 
as assistant editor of the Young Communist League national news- 
paper, which I did. The Young Communist League at this point 
was dissolved itself by a national convention. I can't remember the 
exact year. But at this time I returned to the State of Washington, 
the city of Seattle, which I then considered my home. And I assumed 
a full-time post in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. May I interrupt just there 

Mr. Alexander. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. To ask you a question. Upon the dissolution of the 
Young Communist League 

Mr. Alexander. Right. 

Mr. Arens. There was formerly an entity known as either the Lea- 
gue for Industrial— it was the American Youth for Democracy, was 
it not, as a successor organization? 

Mr. Alexander. In one sense, in another sense it was not comj)letely 
a successor organization. In one sense it was. In one sense it was 

not. ^ ^ 

Mr. Arens. The AYD, American Youth for Democracy, was con- 
trolled by the Communist Party, was it not, by Communists? 

Mr. Alexander. Well, I graduated from the youth movement at 
that point. I would say that I think the Communists themselves 
greatly regretted that the American Youth for Democracy was con- 
trolled by Communists. They felt that the need had passed for a 
specifically Communist youth organization, and this is why they dis- 
solved this Young Communist League in the hope that a non-Com- 
munist youth organization could be established. However 

Mr. Willis. As a front actually ? -it 

Mr. Alexander. Well, some people would prefer to call it that. I 
don't think they meant it in that sense at all. I think they meant 
that our country was in a serious degree of danger from Hitler at that 
time, and from internal fascism, and I think they wanted to create- — 
no matter how much I am opposed to the Communist Party today, 
I want to be as fair and objective about the thing as I can. I think 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES— CHICAGO 611 

they wanted at that time to create a youth movement which was 
genuinely opposed to fascism and which would extend far beyond the 
Communists. 

They felt that the Young Communist League had the limitation 
that in order to be a member of it you would have to subscribe to the 
principles of communism. They felt at that time that as the Com- 
mmiist Party continued to exist that any young person who wished 
to subscribe to the principles of communism could become a member of 
the Communist Party itself. And that the interests of preserving 
democracy and fighting against fascism in our country could better 
be served by a non-Communist anti-Fascist youth organization which, 
although it included Communists, would not be Communist in its 
program. 

I don't think the Commimists themselves believed that they suc- 
ceeded very well, and they were constantly dissatisfied with the fact 
that far too great a proportion of the leadership, membership of the 
American Youth for Democracy, were continuing to be Communists. 
However, I don't have too much expert knowledge on that since at that 
time I left the youth movement and became an official of the Com- 
munist Party itself and was more concerned with adult problems. 

Mr. Arens. Now would you proceed with a chronology of your 
posts in the Communist Party itself, which, I understand, from what 
you said a few moments ago began about 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Alexander, Pardon me. Would you repeat that question ? 

Mr. Arens. Proceed, if you please, with the chronology of the 
assignments and posts that you held in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Willis. He had just entered. 

Mr. Alexander. Yes. I was getting to that. You got me off on 
the track of the AYD. 

Mr. Arens. Let us date this now so our record is clear. You left 
the Young Communist League, 

Mr. Alexander. In early 1940's. 

Mr. Arens. Entered the party ? 

Mr. Alexander. Right, 

Mr. Arens. Now proceed there, please, sir. 

Mr. Alexander. I then returned to Seattle, Wash., and held several 
posts. I am not quite certain which posts I held before I entered the 
Army. I was either district organizational director or district edu- 
cational director. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a paid functionary of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Alexander. Yes ; I was. 

Mr, Arens. Who was your immediate superior ? 

Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman, I would respectfully like to decline 
to answer that question for the following reasons: I am extremely 
willing to be cooperative and frank and candid about my own 
activities. 

Mr. Arens. We will come back to that in a little while. I would 
like to get your chronology on here. We will pursue that question 
with you a little while later. You are in the early 1940's and going 
into the Army. 

Mr. Alexander. I was either district educational director or dis- 
trict organizational secretary of the Communist Party on a full-time 



612 COMMUNIST mriLTRATION OF VITAL mOUSTRIES CHICAGO 

basis until I was inducted into the Army in approximately May of 
1944, I believe. As was the requirement in the Communist Party at 
that time I dropped my membership in the Communist Party in order 
to become a soldier in the United States Army. I served in the Army 
until May 1946. 

Mr.ARENS. Just a word as to where you served, please. 

Mr. Alexander. Most of that time was spent overseas in the China, 
Burma, India theater. There I held the post of associate editor of 
the CBI Kound-Up, which was the equivalent of Stars and Stripes 
for the CBI theater. It was the official Army paper in that theater. 

Mr. Arens. We have some exhibits of yours in the CBI Kound-Up 
operation. I will not pursue them now except to ask you this ques- 
tion : You said you dropped your Communist Party membership ? 

Mr. Alexander. Right, that 

Mr. Arens. That was what was a technical disassociation only, was 
it not? 

Mr. Alexander. No, not altogether. Not altogether. 

Mr. Arens. Did you do it at the direction of the party ? 

Mr. Alexander. Well, everything I do, I do voluntarily, I may agree 
with the party. 

Mr. Arens. Did the party direct you to do it ? 

Mr. Alexander. I do what I think. 

Mr. Arens. It was party policy ? 

Mr. Alexander. It was policy of the party, yes, because the party 
believed that the United States in fighting against fascism needed 
support, that the United States Army was an Army fighting against 
fascism. It had to be a unified military organization and that for one 
to be a member of the Communist Party within the Army, as lawyers, 
for example, sometimes say there might be a problem of allegiance 
or loyalties and so on. They felt someone in the United States Army 
ought to obey the discipline only of the United States Arniy. 

Mr. Arens. May I inquire just a word? I don't want to interrupt 
any more than necessary. This is an important theme from the stand- 
point of the fund of knowledge of this committee. During your 
service in the United States Army from 1944 to 1946, you still main- 
tained yourself as a Marxist, did you not, even though you were dis- 
associated from the formal organization known as the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Alexander. At that time I was a Marxist, yes. I considered 
myself a Marxist. 

Mr. Arens. Would you pick up the theme in 1946 and go right on ? 

Mr. ALEXANDER. In 1946 I was honorably discharged from the 
Army. 

Incidentally, when I entered the Army it was with the knowledge 
of the United States Army that I was an officer of the Communist 
Party and when I went into the Army my special number given to 
me by the Army was that of organizer because I told them that my 
occupation was Communist Party organizer. 

Mr. Arens. At that time they had a movement on in which they 
were commissioning people who were known as Communists in the 
United States Army ; isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Alexander. Yes. To the best of my knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Pick up the 1946 date. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 613 

Mr. Alexander. In 1946 I was discharged from the Army. I re- 
turned to Seattle, Wash., and I again assumed fuUtime work in 
the district office of the Communist Party, either in the role of educa- 
tional director or organizational director, I don't recall which. In 
1948 I was publicly expelled by the district committee of the Commu- 
nist Party of Washington on the grounds that I was an enemy of 
the party, an enemy oi the working class, an accomplice of the FBI. 

Mr. Arens. The party made a mistake then, didn't it ? 

Mr. Alexander. I think so. I think it has been disproven. Do 
you want me to go ahead, or ask me questions ? 

Mr. Arens. I want you to hesitate there just a moment. 

Mr. Willis. I am interested in that. You were not an undercover 
agent for the FBI? 

Mr. Alexander. Most assuredly not. I am not undercover about 
anything for anybody. 

Mr. Arens. In 1048 the Communist Party started becoming secu- 
rity conscious, was it not? 

Mr. Alexander. Yes. 

Mr. A^ns. And they were expelling from the party anyone they 
suspected of being either an informant for the FBI or informant for 
this committee or informant for any Government agency ; isn't that 
so? 

Mr. Alexander. Generally speaking. 

Mr. Arens. You were just caught in the net of the Communist 
Party itself ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Alexander. In a sense. It is a great deal more complex mat- 
ter than that, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. I do not want to get into too much detail in this par- 
ticular session. 

Mr. Alexander. Neither do I. 

Mr. Arens. Then tell us what happened. 

Mr. Alexander. When I was expelled from the Communist Party, 
I moved to the city of Chicago and began to learn the trade of 
machinist and tool and die-maker. I worked at several shops, went 
to the Allied Institute to learn that trade. In 1950 — pardon me, in 
approximately 1951 1 was reaccepted into the party. 

Mr. Arens. Excuse me a minute. I want to get that date down 
here. In 1951 you got back into the party ? 

Mr. Alexander. Approximately. 

Mr. Arens. Where was that, here ? 

Mr. Alexander. In the city of Chicago. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Alexander. May I ask, Mr. Chairman — there has been a great 
deal of prior newspaper publicity ; the previous witness has testified 
and so on that it is a well-known public fact that there has been a 
great commotion in Local 113 in Tool and Die Makers Union in the 
last 3 years. While I am perfectly willing to be candid and honest 
about all my affiliations, sometimes the establishment of a half-truth, 
as any of you well know, can give the exact opposite appearance. 

I want to testify either at this point or I would like to receive 
assurances that I can testify at some other point as to the exact and 
true relationship between the Communist Party and the rank and 
file caucus in Local 113. 

41635—59 8 



614 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. We will get into that in a little while. 

Mr. Alexander. Otherwise the simple parallelism of my Commu- 
nist membership and my union membership would give exactly the 
opposite picture of the truth. Mr. Chairman, may I be Eissured I 
will have full opportmiity of hearing that ? 

Mr. Willis,, I am not so sure I followed what you have in mind. 
I am afraid you have things in mind that you didn't make clear to me. 

Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. We will give you an opportunity to pursue anything 
you want to say here in a little while. We do and insist in a little 
while on some information we don't think you are going to want to 
give us. 

Mr. Alexander. All right. I may have some information which 
you do not know and may not wish to hear, I don't know. It will 
be 

Mr. Arens. We have considerable. On the basis of what you said 
and basis of what I have before you now, the identification and rank 
we know you have held in the party and the instructorship you had 
in the Cormnunist Party training schools and the like, leadersliip 
schools, we think you have considerable information. 

I am just sorry jou didn't make yourself available to us prior to 
this particular session if your attitude is one of thorough cooperation, 
because we feel you have considerable information that can be of serv- 
ice to this Government. 

Now, in 1951 you are back in the party. Tell us now the rest of 
your career until you became completely disassociated. 

Mr. Alexander. I was in the Communist Party from approxi- 
mately 1951 until 1956. During this period I was working. 

Mr. Arens. Where? 

Mr. Alexander. Here in Chicago. I was working in various shops, 
a good number of them as a first machinist and then a tool and die 
maker. To become a good tool and die maker you have to work in 
a lot of shops, believe me. 

In 1956 I resigned from the Communist Party voluntarily. Again 
I might say about one step ahead of being expelled for the following 
reasons: I was a member of Local 113 at this time and a member of 
the Communist Party. In December of 1955 a rank-and-file move- 
ment began in Local 113 aimed at the very things which the United 
States Senate is now trying to embody in legislation, clean unionism, 
the abolition of undemocratic procedures in the local, the ending of 
corrupt financial practices on the part of the business agents, and so 
on. I voluntarily as an individual took part in this movement be- 
cause I thought what now all the newspaper editorials urge, what now 
the Kennedy committee urges is correct. 

Mr. Willis. Wliat? 

Mr. Alexander. I will establish the connection very soon. 

Mr. Willis. I just wanted to 

Mr. Alexander. Why I left the Communist Party 

Mr. Willis. Local 113 is in what area of industry ? 

Mr. Alexander. Local 113 tool and die makers union. 

Mr. Willis. What? 

Mr. Alexander. The tool and die makers local of the Interna- 
tional Association of Machinists. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 615 

Mr. Willis. Oh. 

Mr. Alexander. I became interested in this rank-and-file movement 
because I felt, and a great number of other people felt in the local, 
with the Kennedy committee, and what the Chicago newspapers now 
say editorially is right, that if labor is going to avoid crippling legis- 
lation it is up to the membership of the unions to take matters into 
their own hands in a democratic fashion and clean house. The rank 
and file movement in this union did this. So effective was the ex- 
posures to some of the practices of the business agents that all the 
business agents of the local voluntarily resigned and left Chicago. I 
participated in this rank-and-file movement. I was never a leader of 
it. I wasn't the very steady and consistent member of it, but because 
I participated in this rank-and-file movement, which has been made 
out by somebody, somewhere, sometime, to be an alleged Communist 
subversive plot, seizure of power in the union, which it most emphat- 
ically was not, because I participated in this rank-and-file movement, 
the club of the Communist Party to which I belonged issued, forbade 
me or any other Communist to participate in this rank-and-file move- 
ment. 

The Communist Party then put me on suspension and said that if 
you participate in this rank-and-file movement any longer as you 
have been doing, you will be expelled from the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. For how long were you on suspension ? 

Mr. Alexander. Oh, I don't think I was on suspension for more 
than 5 minutes. 

Mr. Arens. Go right ahead. 

Mr. Alexander. As soon as that happened my mind about the (Com- 
munist Party was quite well made up. This was just about the time 
that events in Hungary were transpiring and so on. By now things 
were quite clear. I quit the Communist Party because had I stayed 
in I would have been expelled from the Communist Party for taking 
part in this honest unionism, clean-up unionism, rank-and-file move- 
ment. 

To me there was a clear conflict of interest there. The Commimist 
Party branch to which I belonged, I think, by this time was so weak 
and so impotent and had become so dogmatic and so removed from the 
membership of the union, that they took what I think was a very 
mistaken position. They took the position that Al Hayes repre- 
sented the best section of the labor movement, that there was an in- 
ternal political struggle going on in the labor movement. 

Mr. Arens. This committee is not interested in the internal strug- 
gles of any particular labor organization. We are interested solely 
and exclusively in Communists, Communist activities, the Communist 
Party, the Communist conspiracy, and the like. 

Mr. Alexander. I am trying to establish simply by this testimony 
that the rank-and-file caucus movement in Local 113 was not, as has 
been alleged, a part of the Communist conspiracy at all. Quite the 
contrary, I was going to be expelled from the Communist Party be- 
cause I participated in it. 

Mr. Arens. You were expelled in 1956 ? 

Mr. Alexander. I was not expelled. I resigned before I could be 
expelled, let's put it that way. 



616 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. When did your connection with the Communist Party 
terminate ? 

Mr. Alexander. 1956. 

Mr. Arens. Did you participate in Communist Party activities after 
1956? 

Mr. Alexander. No. 

Mr. Arens. You are confident of that ? 

Mr. Alexander. I did not. I did not. I attended many Socialist 
affairs for 6 months or a year after leaving the Communist Party. I 
still was hopeful that a leftwing movement might be reconstituted in 
this country. I attended meetings of various Socialist groups that 
were attempting to do something of this sort. But I never attended 
any meetings of the Communist Party for members of the Communist 
Party only. I am certain that if I put in an appearance at the door 
I would have been excluded. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now completely, irrevocably, against the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Alexander. That again, I am not trying to dodge the answer 
to that question. Yes. I am against the Communist Party. But 
that is a big question. I happen to be writing a book about my atti- 
tude on that question. So far I have written 150 pages, and I am not 
near done, so I can hardly hope to do justice to it. 

Mr. Arens. Do you care to tell us whether or not you are still a 
Marxist ? 

Mr. Alexander. No, I am not. 

Mr. Willis. Let us take a recess for 10 minutes at this point. 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis and 
Johansen. ) 

^ A brief recess was taken.) 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis and 
Johansen.) 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will please come to order. 

Counsel may proceed. 

Mr. Arens. Now, for the next several minutes I should like to in- 
quire respecting some of your own functions and activities in the 
Communist Party. Did you ever teach in any leadership training 
school in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Alexander. Yes, certainly. 

Mr. Arens. Where ? 

Mr. Alexander. In the Seattle, Wash., area when I was educa- 
tional director; possibly in California. I can't quite remember. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat did you teach, what courses ? 

Mr. Alexander. I can't remember the specifics. As educational di- 
rector of the district organization I was the director of the district 
party training school. I probably taught several courses, but after 
eleven years I can't remember the specific titles of them. 

Mr. Arens. Can you remember any of the courses which you 
taught? 

Mr. Alexander. I can't remember specifications. 

Mr. Arens. Did you teach any courses on revolution, techniques of 
revolution, or were these public courses ? 

Mr. Alexander. I taught courses on Marxism, Leninism, certainly. 

Mr. Arens. And over what period of time did you teach Marxism 
and Leninism ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTKATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 617 

Mr. Alexander. I am certain scattered through the period from 
1940 to 1948 I taught some courses many times, oh, many times that 
I can't recall the individual dates or titles or courses. 

Mr. Arens. Now, your disassociation from the Communist Party 
did not thus far from your explanation include a disassociation from 
the ideology of communism. Have you disassociated yourself or have 
you developed an antipathy to the ideology of communism; namely, 
that there is no God, that we are controlled by materialistic forces, 
that there must be a world revolution? Are you disassociated from 
the ideology of communism ? 

Mr. Marks. Are you talking about now ? 

Mr. Arens. I am talking to the witness, if you please. 

Are you disassociated now from the ideology of communism ? 

Mr. Alexander. Honestly, Counsel, I disassociated myself now 
from the ideology of communism but I could not state as a person who 
tried to read some books in my life that your descriptions of the 
ideology of commmiism — I don't believe that to be quite exact or 
fair — although I do disassociate myself from the conception of 
ideology of communism that I had gotten from some 20 to 25 years 
of study of it and a great number of other subjects. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been educational director of the Communist 
Party for the State of Illinois ? 

Mr. Alexander. No. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat have you done in educational work in the State 
of Illinois ? 

Mr. Alexander. Nothing that I can recall. In the State of Illinois, 
as I stated, way back in 1934 or 1935 I was not an oflScial of the Com- 
munist Party or the Young Communist League, and when I was a 
member of the Conununist Party of the State of Illinois from ap- 
proximately 1951 to 1956, having recently been reaccepted into the 
Communist Party, I was certainly not a leader of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Arens. Was your acceptance in the Communist Party at your 
solicitation ? 

Mr. Alexander. Yes. Having been accused of personal dishonesty 
by the Communist Party in 1948, perhaps quixotically, looking back on 
it I was very anxious to clear my own record and my own conscience 
but I felt it was the wrong way to do so. 

Mr. Arens. Did you become cognizant of the Communist in the 
1950's — of the treachery of the Communist operation ? 

Mr. Alexander. Well, in 1956, when I left the Communist Party, 
as I say, I left it because there was a clear conflict of interest between 
the membership of Local 113 and the rank and file caucus of 113 and 
the Communist Party. That is why I left. 

Mr. Arens. Were you cognizant of the control of the Communist 
Party of the United States by the Kremlin ? 

Mr. Alexander. That control, again, Mr. Chairman, that is a simple 
word which covers up a complex problem. One of the reasons why I 
left the Communist Party was because I felt that the Communist 
Party in the United States attempted much too much to pattern itself 
upon policies formed by the Soviet Communist Party and that the 
Soviet Communist Party attempted too much to a great extent to 
guide the policies of the American Conununist Party. 



618 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. Were you cognizant of the- 



Mr. Alexander. As a consequence, the American Communist Party 
became futile and ineffective. 

Mr. Willis. May I ask a question at this point? 

Along the lines of direction and control of policies of the American 
party by the Soviets, and picking up your thoughts with reference to 
the policy of the American Communist Party during World War II, 
when there was a common fight, as you said, against fascism, I would 
be interested to have as frank a statement from you as 

Mr. Alexander. Certainly. 

Mr. Willis. as you would kindly inform us on what was the 

policy of the Communist Party during the Korean war as to righteous- 
ness of our cause or what was the official line? Would you care to 
talk about that ? 

Mr. Alexander. Would you please refresh my memory about the 
year of the Korean war ? 

Mr. Willis. The Korean war was June 1950, 1 think it started and 
lasted a year or so. You were not in the party ? 

Mr. Alexander. I was not in the party in 1950, no. I rejoined in 
approximately 1951 or 1952. 

Mr. Willis. The war was on to 1953, actually. Do you have any 
knowledge on that, because we have our own opinions on it and we 
have some executive information that we received in the committee and 
I am curious to know if you have any judgment on that. 

Mr. Alexander. I have knowledge, not expert knowledge, because 
I was not a leader of the Communist Party at that time. My knowl- 
edge of Communist Party policies is based on the same sources as your 
own, publicly printed statements and so on. 

Mr. Willis. Wliat is your knowledge ? 

Mr. Alexander. My knowledge of it is that the Communist Party 
opposed the position of the American Government in entering that 
war and felt that tlie North Koreans represented the trend among 
all the colonial peoples of the world toward their national independ- 
ence and that the United States was intervening against themselves 
on the side of a rather reactionary and corrupt old gentleman by the 
name of Syngman Rhee, who the people of South Korea didn't like 
any better than the people of North Korea, who himself was what 
we attempted to call a Fascist dictator. 

I think that was the position of the Communist Party at that time. 
I am not stating that that is my opinion or my position at the present 
time. I am not stating that it is or isn't. You simply asked me to 
state what I remember of the position of the Communist Party at 
that time. 

Mr. Johansen. Mr. Alexander. 

Mr. Alexander. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Johansen. I understand you to testify that the party at least 
because of the guidance, I think was the word you used, of the Kremlin 
in the affairs of the Commimist Party of the United States being 
too extensive, in consequence of that the Communist Party of the 
United States became futile and ineffective. 

Mr. Alexander. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Johansen. In respect to what goals or objects or purposes did 
you feel that it had become futile and ineffective? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 619 

Mr. Alexander. I thought it became futile and ineffective in re- 
gard to the goals for which I joined it and that was social progress 
and advancement of democratic rights in the United States, the crea- 
tion of a more equitable social and economic order in the United 
States. I think that the Soviet Communist Party having no first- 
hand knowledge of the American political scene was in a very poor 
position to make suggestions to American Connnunists about what 
political strategy and so on they should employ and that the Ameri- 
can Communists were very ill advised in, so to speak, hanging on the 
word of every Pravda and Izvestia editorial that came out to try to 
catch the latest slant and how they should apply that to the American 
situation. And the ideals for which I joined the Communist Party 
were effective social progress, work for social legislation, the unifying 
of the labor movement and all the liberal people in the United States 
to achieve these immediate goals and a more equitable social order. 

I think the Communist Party went way off the track because the 
way, for example, the new social order had been achieved in Russia or 
in China, I don't thinlc has hardly any relevance to the United States 
with its constitutional form of democracy, and that is the only way, 
the only effective way of making improvements in the social and 
economic order of the United States which I do think could bear 
improvement, and I think everybody could agree, I don't think that 
Russians or Chinese can be of much help to anybodj^ in understand- 
ing how to improve our setup here under our type of government. 
Our type of government, they just haven't been brought up, they are 
not familiar. 

Mr. Arens. Are you cognizant of the fact that in the ascendancy 
of communism in Soviet Russia an estimated 20 million human souls 
have been liquidated, crushed. 

Mr. Alexander. I don't know the exact number. I am certainly 
cognizant of the fact that millions of people have suffered very deeply 
and many have been illegally murdered in the Soviet Union. That is 
one of the reasons why I quit the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Are you cognizant of the fact that in Red China an 
estimated 40 million human lives have been snuffed out in the ascend- 
ancy of this force known as communism? 

Mr. Alexander. I am no expert on China and I don't know whether 
that is true or not. I might say this— that all 

Mr. Arens. What is your estimate on the number of human soids 
that have been destroyed in Red China? 

Mr. Alexander. I have no estimate. I have no way of estimating 
at all. 

Mr. Arens. Have you any doubt but what millions of human souls 
have been destroyed by this force laiown as communism in Red China ? 

Mr. Alexander. It is highly possible and I am opposed to those 
methods of bringing — may I answer ? 

Mr. Arens. Are you cognizant of the fact right now, while I am 
talking to you, in Red China 

Mr. Alexander. May I finish answering ? 

Mr. Arens. They have a system known as the spread eagle where 
they take people who are against the regime and they tie one hand 
to a horse, another hand to a horse, their head to a horse, a foot to a 



620 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

horse, and the other foot to a horse and then they pull them bodily 
apart. Are you cognizant of that going on now m Red China ? 

Mr. Alexander. I have no expert knowledge of these facts. 

Mr. Arens. Are you cognizant 

Mr. Alexander. I have read in the newspaper and I have no way 
of evaluating. 

Mr. Arens. Are you cognizant of the fact that Stalin, who over 
the course of a generation was the leader of this force of communism, 
was by his own colleagues, the present leader Khrushchev condemned 
as one who was brutal, a murderer, who destroyed hundreds of thou- 
sands of his colleagues in the ascendancy of this force in Soviet Rus- 
sia ? Are you cognizant of that fact ? 

Mr. Alexander. Very cognizant of it. That is why I left the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Are you cognizant of the fact that Khrushchev, the 
present leader of the Kremlin, is dripping in blood, that during the 
regime of Stalin, Khrushchev had charge of liquidation of an esti- 
mated 8 to 10 million of the Kulak class that he just mowed down, 
had mowed down and destroyed as a Kansas farmer would wheat? 
Are you cognizant of that fact ? 

Mr. Alexander. I am cognizant of all the brutalities committed by 
the Stalin regime. That is why I left the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Are you cognizant of the fact 

Mr. Alexander. I have no expert knowledge of any of these 
questions. 

Mr. Arens. Are you cognizant of the fact that that same force is 
the force that has been let loose of which you were a part and parcel 
for 20 years in this country, under whose flag you have protection? 

Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman, I recall that the first question along 
this line of questioning I did not finish answering when counsel inter- 
rupted me. I would like that first question restated so I might finish 
answering. 

Mr. Arens. Let's finish this question first and then go back to it. 
Are you cognizant of the fact that you have dedicated 20 years of 
your life to the promotion, the development, and the activity of this 
awful force on the soil of the country under whose flag you have 
protection ? 

Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman, I will be glad to answer this ques- 
tion after I finish completion of the first question. 

Mr. Willis. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Complete your answer. 

Mr. Willis. I think he is entitled to have that first question read, 
if that is what he wants. 

Mr. Arens. Which question is it you are in doubt about? 

Mr. Alexander. I think it was the first in this line of questions. 
It had something to do with Red China. 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Are you cognizant, in a word, of the horror now 
in vogue in Red China ? 

Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman, I would request that the question 
as stated in the record be read back. 

Mr. Willis. I think you remember it substantially, don't you? 

Mr. Alexander. I am not certain. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 621 

Mr. Arens. Tlie essence of it, then, I shall now repeat, are you 
cognizant of the fact that in Ked China now they are separating 
families, that they are digging up the graves of the ancestors to use 
them for fertilizer, they are taking those people who are no use any 
longer to this machine and killing them off as you and I might 
slaughter hogs, all for the purpose of the ascendancy of this force 
in its awful terrorism, the like of which this planet has yet to see? 
Are you cognizant that now in Ked China 

Mr. Willis. Let him answer that question fully, Counsel. 

Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman 

Mr. Arens. Go ahead and answer it. 

Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman, I am advised by my counsel that 
I have the right to have the text of the question as originally asked 
to be read back to me from the record. I will be glad to finish answer- 
ing it. 

Mr. Arens. If there will be an answer we will strike the question 
and use the question I just asked. 

(The witness conferred with liis counsel.) 

Mr. Alexander. Will you please restate it so I may answer accu- 
rately the question before. 

Mr. Arens. In essence, are you cognizant of the horror beyond 
human comprehension that is now in vogue in Red China ? 

Mr. Alexander. Yes. I am cognizant of it and I am very much 
opposed to it. I am also cognizant of a great number of things that 
go on in the colonial world. I spent almost two years as an enlisted 
man in the American Army in India. I saw a great deal of all of 
southeast Asian nations. The first year I was in India under British 
rule, some 2 million people died of starvation in the streets of the 
city of Calcutta. Certainly I think this is a very difficult problem 
to solve. If you don't have rapid industrialization of these colonial 
countries, millions of people die of starvation each year as they used 
to in old China. If you do have the rapid pace of industrialization 
that is necessary to stop this slow daily starvation among the people 
of Asia and Africa, so far it appears that the only way that it has 
been successfully done has been through the rapid brutal methods 
now being used in China. I am against them but it is a genuine 
dilemma, believe me. 

Mr. Willis. Pardon me. I don't want to interrupt you. We have 
instructions from the Federal judge not to permit smoking during 
hearings. 

Mr. Arens. Are you cognizant, sir, and this is the crucial question 
I want to pose to you now in all sincerity, that the force which has 
caused the destruction of an estimated 20 million people in the Soviet 
Union, that has caused an estimated millions upon millions to be 
destroyed in Red China, the force that cut loose in Korea, the force 
that cut loose in Hungary, the force that now has 33 million agents 
over the world in this Godless, atheistic communism, which is dedi- 
cated to the destruction of this Nation under whose flag you have 
protection is the same force to which you dedicated your life, your 
energies, your talents for 20 years ? 

Mr. Alexander. Well, I think, Mr. Chairman, in all honesty, I 
would respect the staff director's description and ideals about com- 



622 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

munism. I hope that he will respect my own. I am opposed to 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly just answer that question ? 

Mr. Alexander. It is a very bad thing. I am answering it. I an- 
swered it by leaving the Communist Party. However 

Mr. Arens. If you want to answer it, then tell us. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Willis. I think 

Mr. Alexander. May I finish this question ? 

Mr. Arens. Go right ahead. 

Mr. Alexander. Much as I am now opposed to the Communist 
Party, I don't think that the Communist Party quite fits the descrip- 
tion staff counsel gave and I think a good number of other people 
think so. 

Mr. Arens. Do you think communism 

Mr. Alexander. May I finish answering the question ? 

Mr. Arens. Go right ahead. 

Mr. Alexander. I think the problem might be stated in a nutsheU 
like this, that there are people who are opposed to — both the Com- 
munists and the committee I think have an unfortunate habit of try- 
ing to force a person either to be a Coimnunist or a supporter of the 
position of, well, one might call what might be called the modern 
know-nothing position. I think most of the people in the United 
States are in the middle between the two. And I think I share that 
position. I am opposed to communism, but I am not so naive as to 
subscribe to the devil theory of history. I am opposed to commu- 
nism, but by being opposed to communism I don't think that I have 
to become a know-nothing, a witch hunter and that type of thing. 

Mr. Arens. We don't want you to become a know-nothing. 

Mr. Alexander. I think I can have an honest, dispassionate, objec- 
tive, intellectual opposition to communism. 

Mr. Willis. I understand. 

Mr. Alexander. Without becoming a witch hunter. 

Mr. Willis. I think that answers the question adequately. 

Mr. Arens. Now, would you kindly tell us if you are opposed to 
communism, if you think it is an evil force, would you tell us, please, 
sir^ the names of persons who to your certain knowledge are now par- 
ticipants as members of the Communist Party in the greater Chicago 
area? 

Mr. Alexander. You asked me knowledge of people who are now 
members of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio as of 1956 when you left the Communist Party. 

Mr. Alexander. As of 1956 ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman, I would beg respectfully to de- 
cline to answer that question because I have been going through the 
unfortunate experience, very possibly losing my own job, by virtue of 
being summoned up here because I was a Conmiunist in the past 
though I am not any longer, and I am conscious while I have been 
freely willing to testify about myself, my own activities, in con- 
science I can't subject anybody else to the things I have been sub- 
jected to the past few days. 

Mr. Arens. May I ask you this question ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 623 

Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer any questions concerning names 
of other people. 

Mr. Willis. Let liim complete. He has a right to explain his decli- 
nation. 

Mr. Alexander. Matter of conscience. 

Mr. Arens. Just a matter of conscience in his case. 

Mr. Alexander. Kight. 

Mr. Arens. Now, if you had been a member of a narcotics ring 
which was selling narcotics to destroy the bodies and souls of people 
in the Chicago area, and you for reasons of your own had decided, 
"Well, this narcotics ring isn't for me, I am now decidedly opposed 
to it," would you come forward and tell the Government of the United 
States or its authorized agency the names of other persons in that 
narcotic ring, so that the Government of the United States might 
develop factual information with which to protect this society against 
the machinations and marauding of the narcotics ring ? 

Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman, I would like your advice. I think 
that we are discussing subversive activities, not a narcotics ring. I 
believe the question would be irrelevant. Pretty hard to discuss the 
parallel because it is a big philosophical argument here. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel the Communist operation in the United 
States today now is a vile force ? 

Mr. Alexander. The Communist operation in America now an evil 
force ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Alexander. Well, hardly. I think the Communist operation 
now is an impotent force, a sterile force, and in my own opinion that 
if it were not given all the publicity that it is given by committees like 
this one and a few others, that within a few months the Communist 
Party would be reduced to the same type of sterile impotency as the 
Social-Labor Party, the IWW have, and they would cease to be any 
factor at all in America. 

Mr. Arens. Are you cognizant of the fact that the best brains and 
best intelligence sources in the Government of the United States 
undercover agencies serving in the Communist Party, indeed people 
who testified m these very hearings, as well as undercover agents who 
have been giving information to this committee, unanimously without 
a sense of dissent profess that the Communist operation in the United 
States today now is a more serious, more deadly fifth column on 
American soil than ever before in the history of this Nation ? 

Mr. Alexander. I am conscious of this fact. However, being an 
American citizen brought up on the Bill of Eights, I have long ago 
decided that when it comes to questions of making up my own mind, 
the realm of philosophy, politics, and moral ideas, as an American 
and while I can read what Government experts or anybody else say, 
my duty is to study these problems as carefully as I can from objective 
sources and come to my own conclusions. In the realm of philosophy, 
politics, I hardly consider police agents and people of that sort as 
experts. I would much rather go back to the original sources of 
Marx, Engels, Lenin, make objective decisions for myself, whether I 
am for or against them. People in Nazi Germany fell into the habit 
of letting their minds be made up for them by the official decisions 
of their government. I think it has been the whole spirit of our coun- 



624 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

try that you should listen to what experts in your government say but 
read the stuff yourself and make up your own mind for yourself and 
that is what I tried to do. 

Mr. Arens. Have you made a study, then, of the operations out of 
the consulates and embassies of this Government of espionage agents 
in the pay and under the discipline of the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Alexander. I have no expert information. I read the news- 
papers like anybody else. 

Mr, Arens. Have you made a study of the current Communist 
political subversion campaign? 

Mr. Alexander. No ; I have no expert information. For the last 
year and a half I have been quite disinterested in politics. 

Mr. Arens. Have you made a study of any Communist colonization 
program, whereby they are now sending into heavy industry, people 
who have been trained in training schools of revolution who efface all 
identities of themselves for the purpose of colonizing in heavy indus- 
try ? Have you made a study of that ? 

Mr. Alexander. I have no expert information, I read what was 
reported in newspapers of this committee. But for the last year, a 
year and a half I have become much more disinterested in politics than 
I used to be. I have occupied myself in the field of literature and I 
expend most of my time writing a book so I have no expert knowledge 
on this. 

Mr. Willis. Let me ask you this question^ and I am not going to 
debate or characterize it, either way, for the information of this com- 
mittee. You are aware of the fact that they use colonization without 
putting any interpretation on it. You are aware of that, aren't you ? 

Mr. Alexander. Yes ; I am aware of it. 

Mr, Willis. In fact, let me ask you this, very frankly. I meant to 
ask you it a while ago ; I am going to ask you now. With your educa- 
tional background that you related, and your laiowledge of theoretical 
communism, everything else, did you consider yourself in later years 
engaged in the ty[)e of work that you performed — you said you studied 
to be a machinist — is that something of a definition of colonization, 
isn't that about the type they use? If you were not one, isn't that 
about the thing they use, in all honesty ? 

Mr, Alexander, No, In ail honesty I could not have been colonized 
in 1949 when I became a machinist, because I had just been expelled 
from the Communist Party. The Communists had orders not even to 
associate with me, but I will answer about colonization as I knew it 
when I was a leader of the party. 

Yes, certainly, a Communist urged members to go to work in im- 
portant factories and things of that sort, they could persuade them 
to do so and the reasons for it were quite simple and obvious. There 
was a big unionization drive going on in this country at that time and 
the Communist Party was, I think it is now, judged to be true by all 
labor historians, the Communists played quite a big role in organizing 
the CIO in the beginning, although they were kicked out, and Com- 
munists made every attempt to get their members to go to work in big 
factories where organizations were ahead, when organizers were 
needed, and so on. 

Mr, Willis. And place them in posts of leadership, and so on. 

Mr. Alexander, Not necessarily. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 625 

Mr. Willis. I think that is the essence of what we have been 



Mr. Alexander. I think in all honesty the Communists are quite 
willing to say, "Let the weight of the chemicals fall according to their 
weight." If the workers would elect somebody who happened to be 
a Communist to an office, fine ; if they wouldn't elect them, that guy 
wasn't doing a very good job. 

Mr. Willis. Proceed, Counsel. 

Mr. Arens. Did you teach in your training school force and vio- 
lence as a means to obtain the objectives of communism? 

Mr. Alexander. No. 

Mr. Arens. Does the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Alexander. Not in America. 

Mr. Arens. Does the Communist Party stand for the overthrow 
of the Government of the United States by force and violence ? 

Mr. Alexander. I don't know what the Communist Party stands 
for now, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Now don't equivocate with me. Did the Communist 
Party stand for it ? 

Mr. Alexander. When I was a member ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Alexander. Did it stand for overthrow of the Government by 
force and violence ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Alexander. No. 

Mr. Arens. Then were the 11 Communist traitors down in Foley 
Square convicted erroneously for advocating the overthrow of the 
Government of the United States by force and violence ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Alexander. I am sorry, sir ; I don't have any legal qualifica- 
tions to give an answer to that question, not a lawyer. 

Mr. Arens. You said you spoke, you taught Marxism and Leninism. 

Mr. Alexander. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Lenin advocated, did he not, that in essence we must 
use deceit, lies, anything that will further our cause ? Isn't that the 
essence of the technique used by Lenin and advocated by Lenin ? 

Mr. Alexander. Well, this is one of the reasons why I resigned 
from the Communist Party, because writing 

Mr. Arens. When were you taught that ? 

Mr. Alexander. May I continue to answer that question when I am 
finished ? 

Mr. Arens, Go ahead. 

Mr. Alexander. That the writing of Lenin, Lenin having been a 
Russian and living in Kussia most of his life, were not applicable to 
an open democratic system such as we had in the United States. When 
Lenin wrote about deceit and lies and all that sort of thing, he was 
talking about an underground revolution, antimonarchist movement 
in a Czarist country, Russia. When I was in the United States Army, 
I know of people who employed deceit, lies, all that sort of thing, to 
an incredible extent, the OSS. Our American and British under- 
ground agents in occupied countries, and certainly we, when you are 

fighting 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer this question? It is not 
responsive at all to the question. You are giving a recitation. 



626 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Willis. I think you have given an adequate explanation. 

Mr. Arens. Now, sir, when you taught Marxism and Leninism in 
this leadership training school of the Communist Party, did you teach 
Marxism and Leninism absent, minus, without encompassing in your 
instructions the deceit, the lies, and the treachery that Lenin taught 
and advocated and wrote ? 

Mr, Alexander. I never advocated deceit, lies, treachery. When I 
began to feel that the Communist Party was engaging in that sort of 
thing I left it. 

Mr. Arens. You taught in Marxism, Leninism out in Seattle back 
in the early 1940's, didn't you ? 

Mr. Alexander. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. At that time you knew from Lenin that he taught 
deceit, lies, and the like, did you not ? 

Mr. Alexander. I taught that the 

Mr. Arens. Answer my question. Don't equivocate with me. 
When you taught 

Mr. Alexander. Wliat is the question, please ? 

Mr. Arens. When you taught Marxism and Leninism in Seattle in 
the leadership training school of the Communists, did you then know 
that Lenin's techniques, his advocacy, his teachings encompassed and 
embraced lying and deceit and misrepresentation as part of the tech- 
nique of communism ? 

Mr. Alexander. I knew that to be true when operating, when Com- 
munists were working in an underground, illegal organization de- 
voted to the overthrow of the Russian czar and that is the only way 
anybody has ever accomplished anything against a complete dictator- 
ship. That is why I am so much in favor of maintaining democracy 
and the Bill of Rights in the United States so that I hope it will never 
have to have any movements that resort to lies and deceit here. People 
only do that when they have a complete dictatorship as our under- 
ground agents had to do. 

Mr. Arens. Did you, as of the time that you were teaching in the 
Lenin school, have this revulsion toward Lenin's teachings of force 
and violence and of deceit and treachery ? 

Mr. Alexander. I never taught in the Lenin school, sir. 

Mr. Arens. I say when you taught in the training school. 

Mr. Alexander. Did I have a revulsion against lies, deceit, violence ? 

Mr. Arens. Against Lenin teaching of lying, deceit, and treachery. 

Mr. Alexander. Yes. I had a revulsion against them. I am sure 
that most men in the OSS had a revulsion against the methods they 
had to use. They certainly would have preferred to use the kind of 
methods that we can use in political life in the United States under 
our Bill of Rights but revulsion or no revulsion they were operating 
in an occupied country against Hitler. They had to use them. 

Mr. Willis. Wait a second. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Arens. Do you 

Mr. Willis. Wait a minute. 

Mr. Johansen. As I understand you to testify you said that one of 
the reasons that you left the party was because of, and was timed to 
your discovery of, the advocacy and use of deceit and treacheiy and 
the advocacy of force and violence. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 627 

Mr. Willis. Is that right? 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Alexander. Yes. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Was it the fact that it was used in Russia that 
prompted you to develop that revulsion or was it the fact that it was 
practiced, preached, and practiced in the United States which caused 
that? 

Mr. Alexander. Well, the use of it in Eussia certainly forcibly 
brought it to my attention and I don't think it was used exactly in 
that way in the United States because the Communist Party never had 
government power in the United States like they had in Russia. But 
I certainly began to consider, for example, that my own expulsion 
from the Communist Party in 1948 was a rather inhuman and dis- 
honest thing to do. I think the people who expelled me from the 
Commmiist Party knew quite well that I was not a FBI agent or a 
FBI accomplice and yet they called me that in order to expel me be- 
cause I was a critic of theirs. I think this was dishonesty and deceit 
on their part, yes. But I don't think the Communist Party in the 
United States ever practiced it on any grand scale like they did in 
Russia, to the extent of having people killed and so on. They were 
never in power. It is an altogether different situation. I don't think 
the Communist Party, the Communist Party is made up of human 
beings, and no matter where you go, in what walk of life the people 
are rather queer ducks, with a great number of brothers — ambitions 
and deceit, and all that sort of thing. 

Mr. Willis. Of course, what we are interested in is information with 
regard to current operations and techniques of the Communist con- 
spiracy in America. 

Mr. Alexander. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Willis. As I understand, you will not reveal names of people 
with whom you were associated or go into those details today ; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Alexander. Not today, or I am afraid at any time, sir, at least 
I hope not at any time. I hope I will never bring injury to innocent 
people. I don't think I ever will. 

Mr. Willis. In doing so, I want to get the record perfectly straight 
for all purposes, and I hope your counsel will listen, in taking that 
position I do not recall that you have invoked any specific constitu- 
tional provision. You do it on the basis of conscience ; is that correct ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Alexander. I am declining to answer this type of question, sir, 
on the grounds of conscience, and on the advice of my attorneys, also 
on all constitutional grounds which might pertain to it, except that 
portion of the fifth amendment which speaks of protection against self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Willis. You do not invoke ? 

Mr. Alexander. I do not invoke that section of the fifth amend- 
ment which offers immunity against self-incrimination. That is the 
only one I do not. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I will make this record absolutely clear 
because I expect to propound a very important question on this specific 
issue, and I invite your attention to the explanation that I want to 
make now of pertinency. 



628 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

This subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities is 
here in Chicago to develop factual information which will be of as- 
sistance to it in appraising the adequacy of our existing security laws 
and their administration, also for the purpose of accumulatmg infor- 
mation which might be of use to it in devising amendments to existing 
security laws to cope with the ever-changing tactics and strategy ot 
the Communist Party. It is obvious, sir, from your testimony here, 
and I will say I have all kinds of exhibits I was going to display to 
you respecting your own Communist Party activities, information and 
knowledge and techniques— it is obvious, sir, that you have a fund 
of knowledge of current Communist Party techniques and activities 
in the greater Chicago area. I say by current up to and including 
1956. In order for us to determine 

Mr. Willis. 1956 according to his testimony. 

Mr. Aeens. According to his own testimony. 

According to your own testimony up until 1956. Now, it is obvious 
that before this committee could summon persons before it, in order 
to solicit from them information respecting Communist Party tech- 
niques, activities and the like, we must know the identity of those 
persons. I therefore now am going to ask you in a moment to give 
this committee the names of persons who to your certain knowledge — 
I don't want any innocent people that you talked about — only those 
persons who, to your certain knowledge in 1956, were members of the 
Communist Party, in the greater Chicago area, so that this committee 
can with that information either confirm partially or in toto, other 
bits of information respecting those persons and their activities or 
summon those persons before this committee to get additional infor- 
mation, all for our legislative purposes of appraising the adequacy 
of existing legislation and its administration or to devise amend- 
ments to existing laws. 

Now, sir, with that explanation, I now ask you while you are under 
oath to name before this committee now the names of persons who, 
to your certain knowledge, were in 1956 members of the Communist 
Party and active as Communists in the greater Chicago area. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman 

Mr. Arens. Sir, so there will be no misunderstanding on this rec- 
ord, after I had just made this explanation and posed this question, 
you have been in consultation now with two of your lawyers ; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Alexander. Correct. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio are appearing here with you today. 

Now, would you kindly respond to the question. 

Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman, I would willingly stay here all 
day, all night, as long as the committee wants, to give them all infor- 
mation in my possession about Communist activities. Communist tech- 
niques up to 1956 when I had knowledge of these things. However, 
when it comes to identifying pei-sons whom I knew as Communists up 
to 1956, 1 can't evade the point that I might cause those people to go 
through the same thing I have had to go through for the past few 
days, including possible loss of a job. Most people who were in the 
Communist Party at that time, as the committee well knows, have left 
the Communist Party, and are now opposed to it. The Communist 
Party, in your own words — pardon me, sir. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 629 

Mr. Willis. You see, permit me to interrupt you. I think I catch 
your point. 

Mr. Alexander. Certainly. 

Mr. Willis. It is for the very statement you just made, that argu- 
ment cannot possibly be accepted by us. You say as we well know, 
it is meaningless today. But, let us form a judgment on that by dig- 
ging into and being informed as to the teclmiques and so on. So, do 
you not see it is inconsistent, A^ery difficult and unpleasant a task to 
permit a witness, not necessarily you, any witness to talk about his 
activities in his own way, believing perhaps all that that witness is 
saying is true, but not giving us an opportunity to check upon the 
truth or falsity of the witness on the stand, being questioned. And 
then painting a picture his way and stopping sliort and not permitting 
us to form a judgment. I am implying nothing by what 1 have said as 
to the truth or falsity of your own statement. We are now discussing 
a very serious question of law, believe me, and I \\i]\ have to order you 
to answer that question for that reason and let me say this, as I indi- 
cated, we appreciate your appearance, we appreciate your task, we 
appreciate the position you are hi. On the other hand, here is our 
position : This committee has been formed many years ago. The talk 
about its lack of legislative purpose is not uncommon to us. We hear 
that all the time. We have to bear the brunt of criticism and all that 
goes with it. But from year to year we are directed to make a report 
to the Congress and Ave did tliat just last January on tlie work of last 
year, calendar year 1958. We Avere reconstituted and ordered to do 
tliis job. In the reformation of the committee through its financing, 
as far as I knoAV out of 435 Congressmen, I don't think there — I really 
don't recall one \^ote against ordering us to continue our legislative 
purpose. 

As to legislation, as the opening statement indicates, this commit- 
tee has made recommendation after recommendation. Some of the 
most delicate and penetrating security laAvs for good or bad according 
to the judgment of various people have been passed and as a result of 
our Avork. The Smith Act, the Foreign Agents Registration Act, the 
Communist Control Act, as I say, for good or bad, Congress voted 
them. We are directed to appraise them from year to year. That is 
our job, Avhich is unpleasant. 

Now, when they talk about legislative purpose of this committee, 
let us see Avliat it means, Avliether it is or is not the business of Con- 
gress to legislate upon this subject of communism. 

It is a painful truth that Avithin your and my lifetime this ideology 
has taken over perhaps one-fourtli of the population of the earth, 
of tlie Avorld and perhaps in physical land mass perhaps a third or 
more Avithout firing a shot. We are in trouble today. We have to 
A^ote something like $40 billion a year for national defense, national 
defense against Avhom and Avhat ? ^^Hw are the troublemakers ? Who 
nnist we defend the taxpayers against, have to bleed through the 
nose? The Communists, of course. 

NoAv, anyone can, Avith a serious face, take an oath before this com- 
mittee and say, "Well, Congress is powerless to inquire into these 
things, the resolution is too vague for us to talk about it." I make this 
lengthy statement to try to impress upon you that in ordering you to 
ansAver that question I am forced to. You go half way — your way — 

41635—59 9 



630 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

without giving us an opportunity to recheck, to check, on wliat you 
say. Then we are led into this blind alley and then you have this 
warning. The committee appreciates the extent to which you have 
gone l)ut witli this explanation, I will order you to answer the ques- 
tion, unless, of course, you wish to take advantage of the invocation of 
the constitutional grounds, then it ends the matter. You have a per- 
fect right to do it. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Alexander. May I consult with counsel on this? It is obvi- 
ously a serious matter. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Arens. ]Mr. Witness, so I just pose a question to you, and your 
counsel might well listen because we wanttliis record to be absolutely 
clear. 

Mr. Alexander. There is a question pending. 

Mr. Arens. I want this to go on the record now. 

Do you understand, Mr. Witness, that your declination is not 
accepted by the committee and that the chairman of this subcom- 
mittee has ordered and directed you to answer the outstanding prin- 
cipal question ? Do you understand that ? 

Mr. Marks. Yes. 

Mr. Alexander. I understand. 

Mr. Willis. I am required to make that order under the decisions 
of the Supreme Court. 

Mr. Alexander. I understand that. I think you have been re- 
spectful of my sincerity and I am certainly respectful of yours, sir. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Alexander. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully must decline to 
answer on the grounds of conscience. In doing so I invoke all con- 
stitutional grounds for refusing to do so, including, but not limited 
to, the first amendment and the due process clause of the fifth amend- 
ment relating to scope of this inquiry and the power of the committee 
and the pertinence of the questions. There is only one constitutional 
ground that I am not invoking and that is the privilege against 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Arens. Now, sir, just so the record can be so clear it will be 
ludicrous to say it is not clear, you have just conferred with your 
two counsel, have you not, before you gave that response ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr, Alexander. Yes, certainly. 

Mr. Arens. And you have set forth the grounds for your refusal 
after your consultation with them, indeed, I believe you have read it 
after you have prepared the exact answer, is that correct ? 

(The witness conferred w^ith his counsel.) 

Mr. Alexander. I decline to answer that question. I think it is 
irrelevant. The matter of the lawyer-client privilege is involved. 

Mr. Akens. All right. You still understand, now, do you not, 
that the committee as of this instant is continuing to insist upon the 
information, it is not accepting vour declination? Do vou under- 
stand that? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Alexander. I understand that and T ho]5e tliat I will stand 
by my position for the rest of my life. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 631 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

The committee will take an informal recess of 5 minutes. 

(Committee members present: Representatives Willis and Johan- 
sen.) 

(Brief recess.) 

(Committee members present: Representatives Willis and Johan- 
sen.) 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will please come to order. 

Counsel, please call your next witness. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, sir, will be Mr. Ber- 
nard Angert. 

Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman ad- 
ministers an oath. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. 

Mr. Meyers. Mr. Chairman, my client objects to the taking of 
photographs here. 

Mr. Willis. You are not under our jurisdiction until you have 
taken the oath. 

Do you solemnly swear — please raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Angert. I do. 

Mr. Willis. Now, if you invoke the rule, no photographs. 

Mr. Meyers. Would you be good enough to ask that man to take 
the plate? 

Mr. Willis. No. That was before he was administered the oath. 
I have no- 



Mr. Meyers. You know I made an attempt to stop it. 

TESTIMONY OF BERNARD ANGERT, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

IRVING MEYERS 

Mr. Arens. Now, would you kindly identify yourself by name, resi- 
dence, and occupation ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. I am Bernard Angert. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly keep your voice up a little bit. It is 
difficult to hear you. 

Mr. Angert. Bernard Angert. I live at 934 Fowler, in Evanston. 
I am a moldmaker. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing here today, Mr. Angert, in response 
to a subpena Avhich was served upon you by this committee ? 

Mr. Angert. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Angert. By counsel. 

Mr. x\rens. Counsel, would 3'ou kindly identify yourself on this 
record ? 

Mr. Meyers. My name is Irving Meyers, Chicago, 111. 

At tliis time, Mr. Chairman, I addressed a telegi\am on April 30 
to the chairman of 3^our committee, Mr. Walter, and I would like to 



632 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

know if I can have an answer (o tlie request tliat I made there for an 
executive session. The reason 1 made that request was to prevent my 
client from sutl'erino- from public scorn and stigma that was de- 
nounced in the AVatkins case and to preserve his whole interest and 
to prevent him from feeling the injury that attaches to anybody that 
appears at this hearing in open 

Mr. Akens. Now, would you kindly tell us where and when you 
were born ? 

Mr. Meyers. Mr. C'hairman, may I have an answer? 

Mr. Arens. No. (^ounsel understands the rules of the committee, 
a copy of which I see before you. Your sole and exclusive preroga- 
tive is to advise your client. 

Now, kindly tell us where and when you were born. 

Mr. Meyers. You do not see a copy of the rule. You see a copy 
of the DAR manual for citizenship. 

Mr. Akicns. It looked like the rules, same color. 

Mr. Meyers. I might add you didn't furnish us with a copy of the 
rules and I request one. 

Mr. Arkxs. I will kindly advise you now, sir, your sole and exclu- 
sive prerogative, as the chairman said in his opening statement yester- 
day, is to advise your client. Kindly tell us where and when you were 
born. 

Mr. AxGEKT. Mr. Chairmaii, I would like to request, as a matter of 
record as I did request this as of my counsel, this telegram be read into 
the record. I would like to read it, if I may. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question where and when 
you were born ? 

^Ir. Willis. You may hand it to counsel. 

Mr. Arens. We will be glad to receive anything you want to tender 
there. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Air. Angert. One moment, please. 

Mr. Arens. Now^, would you kindly tell us where 

Mr. Angert. Just a moment. I would like to make this request 
again of the chairman. This telegram was sent some time ago, a week 
ago, and this request was made most sincerely and I want this as a 
matter of record, please, and now I feel that in the situation as 
outlined by my counsel, that any service I can do this couLmittee I can 
do them equally well in executive session without the stigma of public- 
ity attached. 

Mr. Arens. We don't want to be accused any more of star-chamber 
procedures. 

Now, would you kindly tell us where and when you were born ? 

Mr. Angert. I made the request of the chairman. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness now 
be ordered and directed to answer the question where and when he was 
bom. 

Mr. Willis. The telegram is received and you may proceed. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly answer the question ? 

Mr. Angert. What is your question ? 

Mr. Arens. Wliere and wdien were you born ? 

Mr. Angert. I was born October 19," 1910, in Chicago, 111. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 633 

Mr. Arens. Give us a word, please, sir, respecting your formal 
education. 

Mr. Angert. As I can remember it, I graduated from high school 
'here in Chicago, and I attended Central YMCA College, the city 
colleges, and the University of Illinois, over a 4- or 5-year period, not 
continuous attendance, I did not graduate and there may have been 
other things as well. 

Mr. Arens. Did that complete your formal education ? 

Mr. Angert. No; that did not complete my formal education. I 
don't know. Formally, yes. I also attended trade schools and took 
courses in keeping with information as regards my trade as a mold- 
maker. I took courses in machine-shop practice, courses in mechani- 
cal drafting, engineering drawings, and things of that kind. 

Mr. Arens. When did you complete your formal education in the 
school that you told us about a moment ago, please, sir? 

Mr. Angert. I would say that in the sense that I answered it previ- 
ously I would say it was 1940, 1941, although I might point out that 
I have taken courses after I got out of the Army as well, very recently, 
again in courses related to my trade. 

Mr. Arens. Now, give us, if you please, sir, just the principal 
employments which you have had since you completed your formal 
education. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. I worked after finishing my education as you point 
out, I went to work in a machine shop ; left for the services and then 

Mr. Arens. Where did you serve in the armed services ? Could you 
help us on that, please, sir ? 

Mr. Angert. Certainly. Trained in this country and I served over- 
seas in Italy. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien were you discharged ? 

Mr. Angert. End of 1945. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have a commission ? 

Mr. Angert. No. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Beginning about 1945 when you were 
•discharged would you kindly give us just your principal employments? 

Mr. Angert. I can tell you then again because of the type of work 
that I do and the fact that it is common practice for moldmakers, spe- 
cial type of tool and diemaking, to jump from shop to shop, you can- 
not pin me on exact dates because I could not possibly remember. 

Mr, Arens. We don't want to do that. Just your best judgment. 

Mr, Angert, All right. Immediately after getting out of the armed 
services I worked for United Electrical, Kadio & Machine Workers 
of America, 

Mr, Arens, In what capacity ? 

Mr, Angert, As a field representative of a local union, and I worked 
for them between a year and a half and 2 years. 

Mr, Arens. All right, sir. And then your next principal employ- 
ment ? 

Mr. Angert. And then I went into a machine shop and I have 
Tvorked in a number, I would say a dozen in rounding out the figure, 
small machine shops or jobbing shops of that kind. 

41635—59 10 



634 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. Have you been active in I AM ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. What do you mean by lAM ? 

Mr. Arens. International Association of Machinists, 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. I would like to know what the pertinency of my mem- 
bersliip in that union is to this committee and its purpose. 

Mr. Arens. I will then hold that question for just a few minutes. 
Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. I decline to answer that question, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Arens. Why ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. For the reasons that I will enumerate, if I may. 

Mr. Arens. I didn't hear you, sir. 

Mr. Willis. For the reasons he will enumerate. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. I decline to answer the question because I believe it is 
for violating the first amendment, which insures me the right of free- 
dom of association. 

Mr. Arens. You are reading now from a prepared statement, is 
that correct ? 

Mr. Angert. I am reading now, Mr. Counsel, from a statement that 
I prepared with my attorney because I am a layman and I wanted to 
make very sure that there would be no question in the mind of this 
committee exactly what my position is. It is not a lengthy statement ; 
it is a simple position. I want to be heard on it. 

Mr. Arens. Go ahead. I want to be clear. 

Mr. Angert. I am doing now. I would like to read, if I may. 
I believe you are violating the first amendment, which insures to me 
the right of freedom of association and belief in assembly and right 
of privacy. Further, I don't believe that you are authorized to make 
the inquiry you are making for the reason that your powers are vague 
and indefinite and have no legitimate relationship to legislative pur- 
poses. Further, I don't fully understand or know the purposes of this 
hearing. 

Further, whatever your purpose may be I do not think the question 
is pertinent to those sole purposes. And further, I w^ish to assert the 
fifth amendment for the reason publicity attached to these hearings 
have made me reprehensive. 

I therefore feel the answer to certain questions here such as the one 
you proposed may be a link in a chain of testimony that may subject 
me to criminal prosecution and the answer to the question propounded 
may tend to incriminate me. 

For these reasons and for others I would like to decline to answer 
the previous question. 

Mr. Arens. Sir, are you now, this very moment, a member of the 
Communist Party? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. I decline to answer, Mr. Counsel, the same reasons just 
previously given. 



COMMUNIST INFILTKATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 635 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly tell us whether or not you are engaged 
in Communist Party work in the International Association of Ma- 
chinists as a colonizer or as an agent of the Communist Party in any 
capacity ? 

( The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, so there may be no misconstruction to 
this particular question, I should like to make an observation on the 
record that through the years, over a generation's experience in this 
work on congressional committees, in fighting communism, it has been 
my personal observation that the International Association of Ma- 
chinists is one of the strongest anti-Communist organizations in the 
Nation, and the fact that 1 have just posed the question should not in 
any sense be used as any reflection upon the very splendid program of 
that organization to rid itself of Communists and to keep Communists 
out of it. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. I would appreciate, Mr. Counsel, if you would repeat 
your question. 

Mr. Arens. I must confess at this late hour of the day, the tiring 
work w^e are doing here, I have forgotten the specifics of the question. 

Mr. Willis. Are you now engaged 

Mr. Arens. Oh, yes. Are you now engaged in Communist Party 
activities as a Communist in the International Association of Ma- 
chinists ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. This is not the question you posed. Counsel. As I re- 
member it wasn't even vaguely that way. In this instance I wish to 
take the same position I took previously. 

Mr. Arens. Are you connected with the International Association 
of Machinists in any capacity ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. I think you are invading — I think I made this clear — 
you are invading an area which is a question of interference and I don't 
think you have authority to do that. If you want to ask me specific 
questions, ask them. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly answer the question outstanding. 

Mr. Angert. What is your specific question ? 

Mr. Arens. Are you connected in any capacity with the Interna- 
tional Association of Machinists ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. I am a member, 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been a member ? 

Mr. Angert. For 11 years, a little over. 

Mr. Arens. Have you held any office in the International Associa- 
tion of Machinists ? 

Mr. Angert. No office in the International Association of 
Machinists. 

Mr. i^RENS. Have you ever attended Communist Party training 
schools ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Angert. I decline to answer that question and any similar ques- 
tions you may liave for the reasons I have already given. 



636 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

The committee will stand in recess until tomorrow morning at 10 
o'clock. 

(Committee members present: Kepresentatives Willis and Johan- 
sen.) 

(Wliereupon, at 4:32 p.m., Wednesday, May 6, the subcommittee 
adjourned to reconvene at 10 a.m., Thursday, May 7, 1959.) 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES 
AND CURRENT COMMUNIST TECHNIQUES IN THE 
CHICAGO, ILL., AREA 



THURSDAY, MAY 7, 1959 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Chicago, III. 

PUBLIC HEARINGS 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to recess, at 10 :04 a.m., in courtroom 209, U.S. Court- 
house, 219 South Clark Street, Chicago, 111., Hon. Edwin E. Willis 
(subcommittee chairman) presiding. 

Subcommittee members present : Representatives Edwin E. Willis, 
of Louisiana (presiding) and August E. Johansen, of Michigan. 

Staff members present : Richard Arens, staff director, and Raymond 
T. Collins, investigator. 

Mr. Willis, The subcommittee will please come to order. 

(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis and 
Johansen.) 

Mr. Willis. Counsel will call the first witness. 

Mr. Arens. Joseph Poskonka, kindly come forward. Remain 
standing while the chairman administers an oath. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Poskonka. Yes, sir, I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH A. POSKONKA 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Poskonka. My name is Joseph A. Poskonka. I reside at 5019 
South Loomis, Chicago, 111. Occupation at present, unemployed. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Poskonka, are you right now in the Communist 
operation ? 

Mr. Poskonka. Yes, up to the present minute I have been a 
functionary. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Poskonka, have you in addition to participating 
as a functionary in the Communist operation been a part and a mem- 
ber of that formal entity known as the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Poskonka. Yes, sir. 

637 



638 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. When did you join the Communist Party ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. It was in 1943 at the time when our Nation was 
involved in the campaiijn of returning back to the Philippine Islands, 
when we first attacked Guadalcanal. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Poskonka, have you ever been in sympathy with 
the Communist Party, ideologically with the Communist Party? 

Mr. Poskonka. No, sir. At no time did I ever believe in Commu- 
nist Party principles or today or will ever. That is nothing but a 
threat worse than a rattlesnake. 

Mr. Arens. All of your service in the Conmiunist operation, up 
to and including this very instant has been as a person who went into 
the Communist movement at the behest and with the cooperation of 
the Federal Bureau of Investigation for the purpose of supplying 
information to your Government, is that not correct ? 

Mr. Poskonka. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. I expect to interrogate you on several items in the 
course of your testimony this morning, but I should like at the outset 
to ask you first of all, based upon your background and experience 
since 1943 until this instant in the Communist operation and your 
participation in the Communist Party as a formal entity, to tell this 
committee now, while you are under oath, how serious is the Commu- 
nist movement, the Communist operation in the United States this 
instant. 

Mr. Poskonka. It is very, very serious. 

Mr. Arens. Wliy? 

Mr. Poskonka. Because of being undercover. They are using the 
scheme which instead of using openly the Communist Party, they 
are using front organizations and labor, and people think they are 
strictly a decent organization, fighting for labor. And at the same 
time today what they are trying to do is demoralize everybody and 
if anybody doesn't go along with their program they denounce them 
as a traitor and union-buster and everything under the sun, and also 
their aim is to demoralize not only the entire membership, but mor- 
ally the entire public organization in the case of strike. They can 
cut out food entirely from the entire public of the United States 
as well as everybody else and then cut out of the Army food and sup- 
plies which is most necessary in order to win the war. 

Mr. Arens. Mr, Poskonka, may I inquire what distinction do you 
make between the Communist Party and the Communist operation? 

Mr. Poskonka. The Communist Party is an organization which 
gives directly the rulings and as far as the definition is concerned the 
people are functionaries. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Poskonka, may I pursue with you just a 
little bit some of the highlights of your career in the Communist 
operation? "Wliere and when did you join the formal entity known 
as the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Poskonka. Upon entering the Federal Bureau of Investiga- 
tion, when I heard a teacher from the Abraham Lincoln School, which 
happened to be attending a class or teaching a class speaking on the 
subject of the Guadalcanal invasion. At that time I couldn't digest it 
because they said the invasion the United States had been making 
and return to the Philippines was all in vain. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 639 

In other words, the blood that was shed by our Armed Forces at 
Guadalcanal or any other front was in vain altogether. At the same 
time my kid was in there as well. But I am not only speaking for 
my kid but the entire Armed Forces or anybody who served in the 
Armed FoTces of the United States. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Poskonka, could you just tell us the date ? 

Mr, PosKONKA. As far as the date exactly, it was in the month of 
May. But when I called in to the Bureau and they sent two men and 
asked me if I would voluntarily serve the United States, and I said 
I sure would do anything to help the United States. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Poskonka, may I suggest from the standpoint of 
the committee being able to interpret your comments, if you would 
speak just a little slower, please, sir. 

Mr. PoSKONKA. OK. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Poskonka, where did you join the formal entity 
known as the Communist Party ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. I was signed up at 4758 Marshfield Street, which 
was the headquarters of District No. 1 of the United Packinghouse 
Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you serve that entity ? 

Mr. Poskonka. Just a moment. Let me explain I was signed into 
the branch — 24th Chicago ward. From there I was transferred to 
Back-of-the- Yards Club which served the entire southwest section 
of the city of Chicago. 

Mr. Arens. Then what was your next unit to which you were 
assigned ? 

Mr. Poskonka. From that — that unit was broken up into the Pack- 
inghouse Section from the Communist Party — also the Joseph Hill 
Club, which served the Campbell Soup Co. I remained in the Pack- 
inghouse Section because of being employed by the packinghouse. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you remain in the Packinghouse Section ? 

Mr. Poskonka. Until 1948, as long as it had been in force. 

Mr. Arens. From 1948 on you continued as a functionary of the 
Communist operation, disassociated from the fonnal entity known as 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Poskonka. Correct. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us just a w^ord, just the identification of the Com- 
munist front groups that you served in as a functionary of the Com- 
munist operation. 

Mr. Poskonka. Well, there were quite a few. 

Mr. Arens. Just name the principal ones, please. 

Mr. Poskonka. The Midwest Committee for Protection of Foreign 
Born was one. I happened to be treasurer. 

Mr. Arens. Was it controlled by the Commimist operation ? 

Mr. Poskonka. That is right, strictly Communist. They did not 
protect anybody else at any time but the Communists. 

Mr. Arens. Your next assignment, please ? 

Mr. Poskonka. Next, Civil Rights Congress. 

Mr. Arens. What post did you hold in the Civil Rights Congress? 

Mr. Poskonka. Member of the Illinois executive board of the Civil 
Rights Congress. 

Mr. Arens. The next one, please ? 



640 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. PosKONKA. Then at that time was also Slav Congress. 

Mr. Arens. The American Slav Congress ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. What post did you hold there? 

Mr. PosKONKA. National vice president. 

Mr. Arens. Was that controlled by the operation ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Yes, sir. It was also controlled by the Communists- 

Mr. Arens. Your next operation ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. There were National Negro Labor Council and 

Mr. Arens. Was that controlled by the Communist operation? 

Mr. PosKONKA. That is right, strictly Communist. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. 

Mr. Poskonka. The one following I just mentioned was the- 
NAACP. That was not dominated yet, but well infiltrated. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Poskonka, may I inquire on the basis of your 
service in the Communist operation up to and including the present 
instant, and your particular service in the packinghouse segment of 
the Communist operation, how serious is the penetration by Com- 
munists of the packinghouse industiy in the greater Chicago area? 

Mr. Poskonka. It is very serious because they are dominating and 
any decent person of any kind that might be a decent American citi- 
zen that would want to represent labor as a decent leader or decent 
citizen, if he is not a member of the Communists or in sympathy he 
could not be elected to office because he would be slammed as a union 
boss or racketeer of some kind. 

Mr. Arens. During all of your service in the Communist operation 
you have been reporting regularly to the Federal Bureau of Investi- 
gation ? 

Mr. Poskonka. Right. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Poskonka, kindly tell this committee whether 
or not during your service in the Communist Party, as distinct now 
from the operations as such, did you know as a Communist a man by 
the name of Charles Hayes? 

Mr. Poskonka. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Give us just a word about him, please, sir. 

Mr. Poskonka. Charles Hayes happened to be one of the very per- 
sons — when the Packinghouse Section happened to be formed he was 
one of the jEirst secretaries of the Packinghouse Section and he served' 
in the Communist Party ever since. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist a man by the name of 
Sam Parks? 

Mr. Poskonka. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Just a word about him, please, sir ? 

Mr. Poskonka. He also worked on the same basis. He was also 
one of the representatives. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Poskonka, may I interrupt you ? It is obvious tO' 
me and it must be to the committee that you are a little tense today, 
and I don't condemn you for it at all because it was a tense life you 
led in the Communist operation at the behest of your Government. I 
wonder if in your presentation here, if you could slow down a little- 
bit. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 641 

Did you know as a Communist a person by the name of Leon 
Beverly ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Yes, sir, also. 

Mr. Arens. Just a word about Leon Beverly, please ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. He also was one of the leaders of this Communist 
Party in section of Armour & Co. branch. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist a person by the name 
of Jesse Prosten, P-r-o-s-t-e-n ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Yes. He belonged to the Back-of -the- Yards Club 
and then also was transferred into the Packinghouse Section. 

Mr. Arens. To your certain knowledge was Jesse Prosten a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Yes, sir ; he was a member and a cardholder at the 
same time. 

Mr. Arens. What was liis status within the packinghouse operation 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. He was a top ax. Anybody that didn't meet his 
approval, nobody could get a job or even serve on any committee or 
serve the union. 

Mr. Arens. What miion ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Packinghouse union. 

Mr. Arens. You mean the United Packing;house Workers? 

Mr. PosKONKA. That is right. I am referring to the United Pack- 
inghouse Workers. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist a person by the name 
of Jack Souther ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Yes, sir ; he served as the treasurer to the Packing- 
house Section. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist a person by the name 
of Leslie Orear? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Yes, sir. From the very beginning he also was a 
member of the Back-of -the- Yards Club. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist a person by the name 
of Joe Zabritski ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Yes, sir. He was a treasurer, the very first treas- 
urer of the Packinghouse Section, Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know as a Communist a person by the name of 
Jolui Lewis ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. John Lewis happened to be a schoolmate. We were 
attending the Communist Party Workers School in August of 1945. 
He attended the school along with me, the class. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Poskonka, you have been interrogated extensively, 
both formally and informally in private sessions by this committee, 
have you not ? 

Mr. Poskonka. I sure have. 

Mr. Arens. I do not want at this time, if the chairman please, to 
go into matters that would either duplicate information that has been 
presented to this committee by other witnesses or matters which are 
not germane to the immediate subject of inquiry. 

Therefore, I have only a few more questions to pose to you. 

Based upon your background and experience in the Communist 
operation, do you have information respecting the dissemination into 



642 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

other areas of Communist agents who will be following the meat 
packing decentralization program into other States ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Yes. As far as I know^ from the time, teaching in 
our class, they were to cover all food industry or anything that is 
allied, any concerns, regardless, not only Chicago but any part of the 
country. 

Mr. Arens. It is our infoiTnation, and we are not by any means 
experts, or even amateurs, on the meatpacking industry, but that 
there are, in addition to the meatpacking operations in the greater 
Chicago area, smaller operations in the adjoining States. Are you 
cognizant of that ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Has the nest of Communist agents in the greater 
Chicago area in the meatpacking industry undertaken to penetrate in 
the adjoining States? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Their aim is to cover every part of the country, 
every industry that is allied with food. 

Mr. Arens. What areas, what States, what localities have been the 
targets of the operation from the Chicago center by the comrades? 

Mr. PosKONBLA. From Chicago, our Chicago district right now, 
before used to cover, Indiana, Illinois, and part of Wisconsin. Now 
it has been enlarged. So we are covering Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, 
Indiana, and I don't know, one other State. I don't know exactly 
what the district covers, all States. But anyway they are to cover 
all the States there are in District No. 1. 

Mr. Arens. Now have the comrades here in this centralized, focal 
point of Communist operation in the meat industry sent some of 
their membership as colonizers or as agents to these other localities? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Yes, sir, they did. That is a part of their job. 

Mr. Arens. You have discussed that in detail in executive session 
with this committee ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Have you received communications from the Commu- 
nist operation since this committee has been in town on these 
hearings ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Yes, I have. Do you want this or want me to 
read it or what ? 

Mr. Arens. Just allude to them, please, sir. I don't want at this 
time to get into the extraneous matter beyond just the reference to 
the fact that you have been currently contacted by the conspiracy or 
the operation to do certain things. 

Mr. PosKONKA. This is an invitation. 

Mr. Arens. Would you just tell us the various organizations con- 
trolled by the conspiracy which have been in communication with 
you in the course of the last few days ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. This is Midwest. Committer for Protection of For- 
eign Born. They invited me to attend their conference that is going 
to take place May 12. 

^Ir. Arens. Are there any other similar commmiications that have 
come to your attention in the last few days ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. There was another one. Just a minute. This is 
an open letter, religious piece, invites you to second public conversa- 
tion. A meeting was taking place Thursday evening April 30, 1959. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 643 

Mr. Arens. Have you received similar communications ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. That is it. 

Mr. Arens. These communications relate to the surface operations 
of the conspiracy, do they not ? 

Mr, PosKONKA. That is right. 

IMr. Arens. Have you over the course of the last few years been 
concentrating on behalf of the conspiracy in the surface work ? 

Mr. PosKoxKA. Oh, yes, yes. That is what I was asked to do, and 
I go out and do a good job. Not only that but the most important 
part lately which is a long-range program is the farm labor unit 
covering various fairs. State fairs, county fairs, and so on, using 
propaganda to get the farmer and labor, in order to get them in one 
political party, the same as is taking place in Russia. 

Mr. Arens. I do not think there are other areas wliich are pres- 
ently germane to the scope of inquiry which the committee has at this 
time. We want to thank you for the information which you have 
supplied to us, not only here, but principally in executive session and 
in consultation with the staff on a vast array of activities. 

Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude the staff 
interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. AViLLis. May I ask a couple of questions ? 

Where were you bom ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Chicago, 111. 

Mr. Willis. Did I understand you to say you have a family? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Yes. I have a family, wife and eight children. 

Mr. Willis. How many children ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Wife and eight children. Fifteen grandchildren. 

Mr. Willis. And you have been reporting to the FBI regularly 
in connection with the work you have been doing ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. From 1943 on until last September of 1958. 

Mr. Willis. I suppose the reports are not regular. There might 
be many reports at one time and fewer reports at other times. 

Mr. PosKONKA. Correct, it depends on the amomit of activity. 

Mr. Willis. I want to say this to you, sir, that we have had ex- 
perience with American citizens who were asked by the FBI to assist 
the Government in assembling facts and data and information con- 
cerning the machinations of the Communist conspiracy. I do not 
know whether you know it, but I suppose you do, you have been 
with that organization long enough that before they picked you out 
they thoroughly investigated you. If you are good enough for J. 
Edgar Hoover, you are good enough for me. And I want to ex- 
press the thanks of the committee on our own behalf and on behalf 
of the Congress of the United States. 

Mr. PosKONKA. May I say something? I would like to coiTect 
something. I mean not correct, but I want to add on, that I wish to 
thank the United States Governmerit in tlie first place for giving me 
this chance. Also at the same time I wish to state there are a couple 
of errors that had taken place previously wliere I had been pin- 
pointed as a Communist. The hearings in 1952, at the time when I 
was pinpointed out by Roy Thompson, a guy which testified for the 
Bureau. 

Mr. Willis. He was testifying truthfully. 



644 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. PosKONKA. But at the same time my family and myself have 
been discriminated very badly and hurt, cut up to pieces because peo- 
ple pointed and thrown bricks and slapped me in the face and done 
everything imaginable because the neighborhood I lived in, there are 
no Communists and they can't stand a Communist. 

Mr. Willis. That is always the case. 

Mr. PosKONKA. Just a minute. Also in 1956, the same thing, the 
kid was going to school, was pointed out; and I was coming home 
from church. People out of the church would come out and say, 
"Here goes a Communist." 

Mr. Arens. You stayed in the operation ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. Yes. Serve our country and American flag. There 
is nothing better, worth fighting for. 

Mr. Arens. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Willis. Some of the very people critical of you were also peo- 
ple working under the auspices or at the behest of the Government ? 

Mr. PosKONKA. That is right. 

Mr. Willis. Thank you so much. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Mr. John P. T^wis. 

Please come forward. 

Mr. Lewis. Mr. Chairman, would you call the name given you ? It 
is John Lewis, plain John Lewis. 

Mr. Arens. John Lewis ? 

Mr. Lewis. That is right. 

Mr. Willis. Please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Lewis. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN LEWIS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BELFOED V. LAWSON, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Lewis. John Lewis, 5400 South Woodlawn Avenue, Chicago, 
111. ; work at the Swift packing plant. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by this committee ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Lawson. Belf ord Lawson, Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed at your present 
place of employment ? 

Mr. Lewis. Since 1924. 

Mr. Arens. Have you in the course of your employment been active 
in the United Public Workers ? 

Mr. Lewis. I remember — no. 

Mr. Arens. Excuse me. The United Packinghouse Workers ? 

Mr. Lewis. Right. 

Mr. Arens. What office have you held? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 645 

Mr. Lewis. I have held vice president, president, and chief steward.. 

Mr. Arens. Of what? 

Mr. Lewis. Of the United Packinghouse Workers of Americay 
AFL-CIO. 

Mr. Arens. Was that of a local? 

Mr. Lewis. One local. 

Mr. Arens. What local, please? 

Mr. Lewis. Local 28. 

Mr. Arens. Where does it operate? 

Mr. Lewis. At the district headquarters, 4859 South Wabash Ave- 
nue, and we have a suboffice at 4306 South Ashland. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time did you hold these various 
offices to which you have just referred ? 

Mr. Lewis. 1949, I was first elected in 1949, 1950, and 1951. I was 
president. In 1952 I was chief steward of the local. In 1953 I didn't 
run for anything. In 1954 I went back for vice president. In 1955 
I went back for vice president ; in 1956, 1957, 1958 I went back again 
for president, and 1959 1 ran back for president. 

Mr. Willis. And were you elected? 

Mr. Lewis. And was elected; yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you presently then the president of this local ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born? 

Mr. Lewis. February 11, 1905. 

Mr. Arens. Where? 

Mr. Lewis. In Natchez, Miss. 

Mr. Arens. Give us just a word, please, about your education? 

Mr. Lewis. Finished the elementary school. 

Mr. Arens. When? 

Mr. Lewis. About 40 years ago. 

Mr. Arens. Since about 1924 you say you have been working at the 
packinghouse here? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Lewis. Never — I refuse to answer that question. Strike that. 
I refuse to answer that question on the fifth amendment of the Con- 
stitution of the United States and on the ground in may incrim- 
inate me. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know the man who just preceded you on the 
witness stand, Joseph Poskonka? 

Mr. Lewis. I do. 

Mr. Arens. He testified a few moments ago that he knew you as a 
member of tlie Communist Party. Was he in error or was he accurate ? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question because it may in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. No. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever resigned from the Communist Party? 

Mr. LE^VIS. I refuse to answer that question on the fifth amendment 

Mr. Arens. Did you resign technical membership in the Communist 
Party and maintain yourself in the Communist operation so that you 



646 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

could deny current membership in the Communist Party, if and when 
interrogated under oath? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Lewis. No. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at 
any time since the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Lewis. No. 

Mr. Arens. Are you against the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. Yes. 

Mr, Arens. Do you have information respecting persons who to 
your certain knowledge are or have been members of the Commu- 
nist Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question, fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. If you are now against the Communist Party, why do 
you not tell this committee ? 

Mr. Lewis. Strike the answer — repeat that question again. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting persons who to 
your certain knowledge are now or have been members of the Commu- 
nist Party? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Lewis. I have no such knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Do I understand you to say you have no knowledge of 
anyone who at any time has been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. No such knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not Poskonka has been a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question, fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of John Hackney ? 

Mr. Lewis. I do. 

Mr. Arens. John Hackney testified that he knew you as a member 
of the Communist Party. Was Hackney in error when he made that 
statement ? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question, fifth amendment to the 
Constitution of the United States, on the grounds it may incriminate 

me. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever served in the Communist Party with 

Hackney ? . r- <• i i i. 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question, fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever served in the Communist Party with 
Joseph Poskonka? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. If you are against the Communist Party as you pro- 
fessed a few m.oments ago, why do you not tell this committee, now, 
wliile you are under oath, whether or not Hackney and Poskonka were 
in the Communist Party? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question on the fifth amendment 
to the Constitution. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 647 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us whether or not a man by the name of 
Charles Hayes has ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us whether or not to your certain knowl- 
edge a man by the name of Sam Parks has ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question on the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us whether or not to your certain knowl- 
edge a man by the name of Leon Beverly has ever been a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question on the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us whether or not to your certain knowl- 
edge a man by the name of Jesse Prosten has ever been a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer this question on the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us whether or not to your certain knowl- 
edge a man by the name of Jack Souther has ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us whether or not to your certain knowl- 
edge a man by the name of Leslie Orear has ever been a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer the question on the fifth amendment 
to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us to your certain knowledge whether a 
man by the name of Joe Zabritski has ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lewis. I refuse to answer that question on the fifth amendment 
to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens, The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Charles Proctor. 

Please come forward and remain standing while the chairman ad- 
ministers an oath. 

Mr. Willis. Raise your right hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Proctor. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF CHARLES PROCTOR, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BELFORD V. LAWSON, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Proctor. Charles Proctor, Post Office Box 302, Covert, Mich., 
presently hired as manager of the Packinghouse Labor and Community 
Center. 



648 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American Ac- 
tivities. 

Mr. Proctor. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Proctor. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Comisel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Lawson. Belf ord Lawson, Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you occupied your present position ? 

Mr. Proctor. Since January of this year. 

Mr. Arens. What was your position immediately prior to your 
present position ? 

Mr. Proctor. Unemployed. 

Mr. Arens. For how long ? 

Mr. Proctor. Approximately a couple of months. 

Mr. Arens. Then what was your employment? 

Mr. Proctor. Prior to that time ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Proctor. Prior to that time I worked for Local 28 for awhile, 
full time. 

Mr. Arens. Local 28 of what ? 

Mr. Proctor. United Packinghouse Workers of America, AFL- 
CIO. 

Mr. Arens. Were you employed then, when you worked for Local 
28, in Chicago? 

Mr. Proctor. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Proctor. I don't understand your question. 

Mr. Arens. You worked for Local 28 of the United Packinghouse 
Workers in Chicago, you said. And I asked you in what capacity. 
Wliat was the job you had with them ? 

Mr. Proctor. As chairman of the grievance committee. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you have that job ? 

Mr. Proctor. I have held that job since 1954. 

Mr. Arens. What was your job prior to that time ? 

Mr. Proctor. Prior to that time I was working, just working in 
the plant at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any connection prior to that time with the 
United Packinghouse Workers of America ? 

Mr. Proctor. I didn't hold office. I was only a member. I did hold 
office once before from 1949 up until 1951. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere and when were you born ? 

Mr. Proctor. I was born in Jackson, Miss., January 21, 1913. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed in the general 
Chicago area ? 

Mr. Proctor. Around approximately 16 years. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever traveled abroad ? 

Mr. Proctor. I have. 

Mr, Arens. And where did you go and when ? 
(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Proctor. I refuse to answer that question for fear it may in- 
criminate me. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 649 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now three documents, the first of which 
is a photostatic reproduction of the January 7, 1951, issue of The 
WorKer Magazine. I invite your attention to the photograph under 
which is captioned "Part of the American Peace Delegation visiting 
one of the cathedrals inside the Kremlin," listing a number of visitors, 
including Charles Proctor, of Chicago. Kindly look at that article 
and particularly that photograph and tell this committee while you 
are under oath whether or not you are the Charles Proctor whose 
photograph appears there and who was a member of this delegation 
described in The Worker Magazine. 

(Document handed.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Proctor. I refuse to answer that question based upon it may 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you a second document, a photostatic re- 
production of the Communist Daily Worker of March 21, 1951, in 
which a number of people are quoted as lauding the Soviet Union and 
commending its progress and desire for peace at a rally held in Cleve- 
land, Ohio, including a person here identified as Charles Proctor, who 
had returned to the United States from Soviet Russia. 

Kindly look at this document and tell the committee whether or 
not it refreshes your recollection, whether or not you are the Charles 
Proctor who participated in that rally and lauded the Soviet Union. 

(Document handed.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Proctor. I refuse to answer that question based upon the fact 
it ma}^ incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now a booklet entitled "Americans in 
the U.S.S.R., November-December 1950," containing a statement 
signed by the American Delegation to the Soviet Union, including 
Charles Proctor, of Chicago. A photograph also appears at the end 
of the statement. 

Kindly look at that document and tell this committee whether or not 
you were a participant in that enterprise and loaned your name and 
your then title to the enterprise on behalf of the Soviet Union. 

Mr. Proctor. I refuse to answer that question based upon the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, sir, and ask you to affirm or 
deny the fact that you did participate in the Second World Peace 
Congress, that you did go, not only to the Soviet Union, but to War- 
saw, Poland, for the propaganda purposes of the international Com- 
munist movement. If that is not true, please deny it while you are 
under oath. 

Mr. Proctor. I refuse to answer that question based on the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that these three 
exhibits which I have displayed to the witness be grouped and marked 
as "Proctor Exhibit No. 1" and incorporated by reference in the 
record. 

Mr. Willis. Let them be so marked and incorporated. 

(Documents marked "Proctor Exhibit No. 1," and retained in com- 
mittee files. ) 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Poskonka ? 

416,35—59 11 



650 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Mr. Proctor. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of John Hackney? 

Mr. Proctor. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Both of those men took an oath before this committee 
and testified that while they were members of the Communist Party 
they knew you as a Communist. Were they in error or were they 
telling the truth ? 

Mr, Proctor. I refuse to answer that question based upon the fifth 
amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Proctor. 1 am not a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Proctor. I refuse to answer that question based upon the fifth 
amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party 
at any time in the course of the last 5 years ? 

Mr. Proctor. No ; I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever resigned technical membership in the 
Communist Party and maintained yourself in the operation so that 
you could deny party membership ? 

Mr. Proctor. No, I have not. 

Mr. iVRENS. Do you presently have information respecting persons 
who to your certain knowledge are, or in the past have been, members 
of the Communist Party ? 

INIr. Proctor. I certainly do not. 

Mr. Arens. You do not know any persons who have ever been mem- 
bers of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Proctor. I refuse to answer that question based upon the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now against the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Proctor. I am. 

Mr. Arens. If you are against the Communist Party then speak 
up now, please, sir, and tell this committee the names and activities 
of persons, to your certain knowledge, who have been members of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Proctor. I refuse to answer that question based upon the fifth 
amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will con- 
clude the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens. The next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Mr. Donald H Smith. 

Please come forward, Mr. Smith, and remain standing while the 
chairman administers an oath. 

Mr. Willis. Would you please raise your right hand ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Smith. I do. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 651 

TESTIMONY OF DONALD H. SMITH, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BELEORD V. LAWSON, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Smith. Donald H. Smith, 9711 South Indiana, Chicago, in- 
ternational representative. United Packinghouse Workers of America, 
AFL-CIO. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena which 
was served upon you by the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities ? 

Mr. Smith. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Smith. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel,,kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Lawson. Belf ord Lawson, Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born ? 

Mr. Smith. Denver, Colo., May 6, 1913. 

Mr. Arens. And a word about your education, please. 

Mr. Smith. Well, eight grades. 

Mr. Arens. Give us the principal employments which you have had 
since you reached adulthood. 

Mr. Smith. Oh, I worked as a truckdriver, laborer, packinghouse 
worker. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time have you worked as a pack- 
inghouse worker ? 

Mr. Smith. From 1938 up until about 1946, then was on leave of 
absence from Swift & Co., which later was severed on the account of 
the plant closing down or reduction in the plant. And I have been 
working for the Packinghouse Workers from 1946 up until now. 

Mr. Arens. Did you work for the Packinghouse Workers in New 
York at any time ? 

Mr. Smith. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Over what period of time did you work for the Pack- 
inghouse Workers in New York ? 

Mr. Smith. I would say from 1946 up until 19 — well, working in 
and out of New York up until 1956, 1 believe. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Smith. Field representative and international representative. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a candidate for public office? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Smith. I have. 

Mr. Arens. And where was that ? 

Mr. Smith. New York. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of John Hackney? 

Mr. Smith. I do. 

Mr.ARENS. Do you know a man by the name of Carl Nelson ? 

Mr. Smitpi. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Each of these men has testified here under oath that 
he knew you as a member of the Communist Party. Were they in 
error on that or were they telling the truth ? 

Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incrimi- 
nate me. 



652 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell this committee whether or not in 1948 you 
participated in a movement on behalf of the 11 Communists who were 
tried in New York City ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now a photostatic reproduction of 
the Communist Daily Worker of New York, Friday July 23, 1948, 
in which a number of persons are listed here with statements on behalf 
of the 11 Communists who were being tried, and in the article the 
following appears : 

Don Smith, New York subdistriet director, United Packinghouse Workers, CIO, 
and ALP candidate for State senator, fifth district, Queens : 

"The indictment and arrest of the leaders of the Communist Party is the next 
monstrous step in the direction of the suppression of freedom and toward war." 

Kindly look at that article as I display it to you, and tell this com- 
mittee if it refreshes your recollection and whether or not you loaned 
your name and your status as a leader of the United Packinghouse 
Workers on behalf of the 11 Commmiists. 

( Document handed. ) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incrimi- 
nate me. 

(Document marked "Smith Exhibit No. 1" and retained in committee 
files.) 

Mr. Arens. Have you been one of the sponsors of the May Day 
celebrations of the Communist operation ? 

Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been one of the sponsors and promoters of 
the Action Conference for Freedom ? 

Mr. Smith. I refuse to 

Mr. Arens. Under the auspices and control of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Smith. I am not. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party any 
time in the coui*se of the last 5 years ? 

Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever resigned from the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. Arens. Are you against the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Smith. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Have you information respecting persons who to your 
certain knowledge are or have been members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incrimi- 
nate me. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 653 

Mr. Arens. If you are against the Communist Party, why do you 
not give this committee information which you may have respecting 
the Commmiist Party and respecting persons who to your certain 
knowledge have been members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Smith. I refuse to answer that on the grounds it may incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been in conference since you have been 
subpenaed to appear before this committee with persons respecting 
your appearance who to your certain knowledge are, or in the past 
have been, members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Smith. Come again on that. I didn't quite follow. 

Mr. Arens. Since you were subpenaed to appear before this com- 
mittee, have you been in conference respecting your appearance here 
today with persons who to your certain knowledge are, or have been, 
members of the Communist Party ? 

( The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Smith, I will take the fifth amendment on the grounds it may 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Arens. The ne^rt witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, will be 
Jesse Prosten. Please come forward. 

Mr. Lawson. If Your Honor pleases, may I say pursuant to the 
telegram you received Jesse Prosten is available. I don't know 
whether he is in the courtroom or not. He has not been subpenaed 
and we would prefer that he be subpenaed in order to make sure that 
his rights are protected. But he is available to this committee and 
he told me he would be here around this time. Maybe this is he coming 
up here now. 

Mr. Lewis. No, it isn't. It is John Lewis. 

Mr. Lawson, a little differences there. He is available and I be- 
lieve he will be here. 

Mr. Arens. May I just make this observation, that as we pointed 
out here 2 days ago we have been trying to place this prospective wit- 
ness under subpena and have been unable to do so. A telegram came 
from Kalph Helstein, I don't have it before me at the instant, saying 
in effect that Mr. Prosten wanted to be heard and would be here. We 
have no other witnesses who are under subpena for this particular 
session and in anticipation that he might be here we are calling him 
as a witness. 

Mr. Lawson. But he is not under subpena. 

Mr. Arens. No. We would like very much to have had him under 
subpena. 

Mr. Lawson. And he has not been hiding out. I have talked with 
him and he assured me that he had been on this assignment for some 
time. But out of an abundance of caution the union undertook to 
notify him and he has come here and I have talked with him. Now, 
I think that is all we can do. And I do know he will be here. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, do you represent him ? 

Mr. Lawson. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Willis. Let me say this, as presiding member. We will be 
glad to have him officially summoned if he presents himself during 



654 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

a 5-miiuite recess that I will call. We would like very much to ques- 
tion him. He is not under compulsion to voluntarily come and be 
summoned and receive the subpena and I am not suggestmg that 

at all. . ,.-.,11 

On the other hand, we plan definitely on adjournmg by 12 o clock 
and I would be glad to have him summoned. 

In other words, on two conditions; one, he is not under compulsion 
to appear. If he wants to, we would be very happy to follow that 
course with the understanding that it will have to be done promptly. 

Mr. Lawson. We are desirous of cooperating with the committee 
and i think I can assure this committee that he will be here within 
a few minutes. I think not within 5 minutes. But he will be here 
shortly and we would like to have him summoned for the record. 

Mr. Willis. I will say this. You have been most cooperative and 
I understand your position. 

Mr. Lawson. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Willis. We will stand in recess for a few minutes. 

(Committee members present: Representatives Willis and Johan- 
sen.) 

(Brief recess.) 

(Committee members present: Representatives Willis and Johan- 
sen.) 

Mr. Willis. Kindly raise your right hand, please, sir. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Prosten. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JESSE E. PROSTEN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
BELFORD V. LAWSON, JR. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Prosten. Jesse E. Prosten, 5109 South Cornell. I am an inter- 
national representative for the United Packinghouse Workers of 
America. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you by this committee? 

Mr. Prosten. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Prosten. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel, kindly identify yourself. 

Mr. Prosten. Belf ord Lawson, Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you occupied your present position ? 

Mr. Prosten. Approximately 13 years. 

Mr. Arens. What was your employment immediately prior to your 
present employment ? 

Mr. Prosten. I worked for the same union out of New York. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Prosten. In a capacity of a field representative. 

Mr. Arens. And for how long ? 

Mr. Prosten. Approximately a year. 

Mr. Arens. And your employment immediately prior to that ? 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIESi — CHICAGO 655 

Mr. Prosten". I worked for the same union in Boston. 

Mr. Arens. For how long and in what capacity ? 

Mr. Prosten. As a business agent of a local union for approxi- 
mately 6 or 7 years. 

Mr. Arens. And then give us, if you please, the preceding employ- 
ment. 

Mr. Prosten. Odd jobs, WPA, jobs of that kind. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born, please ? 

Mr. Prosten. Born in Brookl5^n, N.Y., in 1912. 

Mr. Arens. Just a word about your education. 

Mr. Prosten. Grade school and a year and a half of high school. 

Mr. Arens. Did that complete your formal education ? 

Mr. Prosten. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Prosten. Beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Prosten. I will take the fifth amendment on that, tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend if you told this committee 
truthfully while you are under oath whether or not you have ever 
been a member of the Communist Party you would be supplying in- 
formation which might be used against you in a criminal proceeding? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Prosten. Will you repeat that question, please ? 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend that if you told this com- 
mittee truthfully while you are imder oath whether or not you have 
ever been a member of the Communist Party you would be supplying 
information which might be used against you in a criminal proceed- 
ing? 

Mr, Prosten. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Prosten. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at 
any time in the course of the last 5 years ? 

Mr. Prosten. Fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now a photostatic reproduction of 
the Communist Daily Worker of May 16, 1952, in which a number of 
persons are urging the repeal of the Smith Act and attacking the 
various security laws of this Government, including, Jesse Prosten 
of Local 11, Boston. 

Kindly look at this document and tell this committee whether or 
not you participated in that enterprise. 

(Document handed.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Prosten. Fifth amendment. 

(Document marked "Prosten Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you now a document petitioning for the 
freedom of Earl Browder, then Secretary of the Communist Party, 
signed by a number of persons, including Jesse Prosten. 



656 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES CHICAGO 

Kindly look at that document and tell this committee while you 
are mider oath whether or not you participated in that enterprise. 

Mr, Prosten. I will take the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Prosten. I will take the fifth amendment on this, sir. 

(Document marked "Prosten Exhibit No. 2" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of John Hackney ? 

Mr. Prosten. I knew a member of the union by the name of John 
Hackney ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know John Hackney in any other capacity 
other than in his capacity as a member of the union? 

Mr. Prosten. Fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know Carl Nelson ? 

Mr. Prosten. I knew him as a member of the union. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know him in any other capacity ? 

Mr. Prosten. Fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know Joseph Poskonka ? 

Mr. Prosten. Would you repeat that ? 

Mr. Arens. Joseph Poskonka. 

Mr. Prosten. I think he worked at the Armour plant in Chicago. 

Mr. Abens. Did you know him in any capacity other than as a 
person who worked at the Armour plant ? 

Mr. Prosten. Fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Each of those men has testified under oath before this 
committee in the course of the last 2 or 3 days that he loiew you as 
a member of the Communist Party. We would like to afford you now 
an opportunity to deny their testimony while you are mider oath. Do 
you care to avail yourself of that privilege ? 

Mr. Prosten. I can't be responsible for anything they say and I will 
take the fifth amendment on that. 

Mr. Arens. Did they tell the truth when they said they knew you as a 
Communist ? 

Mr. Prosten. Fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that will conclude 
the staff interrogation of this witness. 

Mr. Willis. You are excused. The committee will take a recess for 
3 minutes. 

(Committee members present: Eepresentatives Willis and Johan- 
sen.) 

(Brief recess.) 

Mr. Willis. The subcommittee will please come to order. 

(Committee members present: Representatives Willis and Johan- 
sen.) 

Mr. Willis. In concluding the hearings in Chicago, I should like 
to make a few brief comments. 

In the first place I want to commend those witnesses whom we have 
heard, who by direct testimony from their experience in the Communist 
Party have supplied this committee with valuable information respect- 
ing the operation of the Communist menace. Were it not for loyal 
citizens of that type, such as Carl Nelson, John Hackney, and Joseph 
Poskonka, this committee and the Government of the United States 
would be at a great disadvantage. 



COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF VITAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 657 

The information which these men have supplied to this committee 
takes on added significance when it is considered in connection with 
similar information which we are constantly assembling in other areas 
on different facets of the conspiracy. We have seen here a verification 
and confirmation of similar techniques and strategies practiced at 
nerve centers throughout our country. With reference to those wit- 
nesses who in varying degrees refused to answer questions posed by the 
committee, may I say that by indirection they, too, have contributed 
to our work, even though unwillingly or miwittingly. 

We will return to Washington with the information which has 
been developed here and use it as part of the fund of knowledge which 
we are gaining to assist us in the discharge of our duties, which, 
under a mandate of the Congress are, in essence, to maintain a con- 
tinuing surveillance over the operation of our various security laws, 
and to recommend, when necessary, amendments to those laws, or en- 
actment of new laws. 

I wish it were possible for the Congress of the United States to 
pass a single law which would for all time end the Communist con- 
spiracy. Unfortunately, however, this cannot be done because Com- 
munists constantly seek new devices to accomplish their objectives, all 
of which require new legislative weapons. 

Long ago it was proclaimed that eternal vigilance is the price of 
liberty. One of the very objectives of the Communist conspiracy in 
the United States is to create an attitude of apathy — it can't happen 
here, as the saying goes. 

But here are words of J. Edgar Hoover, Director of the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation, on this subject. 

Public apathy is the sure way to national suicide— to death of individual 
freedom. It allowed the Communists to penetrate and make satellites of once- 
free countries, and it is presently enabling them to honeycomb and weaken the 
structures of the remaining countries, and there is today a terrifying apathy 
on the part of Americans toward the deadliest danger which this country has 
ever faced. Some of that apathy is deliberately induced. 

That is the end of Hoover's quotation. 

Before concluding I should like to express the thanks of the subcom- 
mittee to Federal Judge Campbell, to Mr. Frank Allen and the mem- 
bers of his office staff, who have most courteously made available to 
us this courtroom. 

We should like also to thank United States Marshal William Kipp 
and his capable deputies for their very splendid cooperation in per- 
mitting these hearings to go on smoothly without a ripple of public 
disorder. 

And, finally, we should like to express our sincere thanks to the 
members of the press and of the radio and television profession who 
have been most courteous to us. 

We deliberately planned our completion of our work at this time 
because members of this committee are due to board a plane as soon 
as possible to try to get on record late this afternoon on a very im- 
portant vote in the Congress. 

Does my colleague care to make some observations ? 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Just Very briefly, Mr. Chairman. 

First of all, I want to most emphatically associate myself with the 
statement made by the chairman. As the representative of the mi- 
nority I want to emphasize one fact, which is familiar to every Mem- 



658 COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF MTAL INDUSTRIES — CHICAGO 

ber of Congress, and I hope it is to the American people, and that is, 
that the problem we are attempting to deal with here, the solutions 
we are attempting to bring, and the efforts that we are making to 
carry out the legislative mandate and aid in the legislative functions 
of the Congress is a completely bipartisan effort. It is the effort of 
the responsible elected officials acting in accordance with the mandate 
of the Congress to aid in the performance of legislative functions. 

Because of one type of testimony that we have had in these hearings 
in which it was stated that there was a willingness to tell all about 
the activities of the Communist conspiracy, but a refusal to identify 
the actors, I do want to make this one observation. It is highly un- 
fortunate but inescapably true that the actors cannot be divorced 
from the activities and it is impossible for the Congress to have the 
information it needs and for this committee to provide that informa- 
tion without identifying the actors and directly linking them with 
the activities. Therefore, that which impedes the effort to identify the 
actors impedes the effort to describe and define the activities and 
so impedes the legislative functions of this committee. 

I have just one other conunent. In view of the fact that there 
appears on the record of this testimony a reference to a recent 
prominent criticism of this committee as being the most un-Amer- 
ican thing in America today, I think it ought also to be a matter of 
record that the source of that comment has since made it very clear, 
Mr. Chairman, that it was not with reference to the committee as 
today constituted and as today functioning, and I am appreciative 
of that responsible comment which indicates an awareness of the re- 
sponsibilities this committee has and the conscientious effort it is mak- 
ing to perform them. 

I do express my appreciation for those who have cooperated with 
the committee and to the chairman for the eminently fair way in 
which he conducted it. 

Mr. Willis. The hearings here in Chicago will be now closed. 

(Committee members present: Representatives Willis and Johan- 
sen.) 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 36 a.m., Thureday, May 7, 1959, the hearings 
were closed.) 



INDEX 



Individxjals 



A Page 

Alexander, Edwin A 510,607-631 (testimony) 

Allen, Tranli 657 

Angert, Bernard 510, 631-636 (testimony) 



Beverly. Leon 508. 527, 562-564 (testimony), 578, 583, 641, 647 

Bezenhoffer, Joseph 523, 527, 578 

Born, Blanche 523 

Bornstein, Mannie 522, 523 

Brennan, Teddy 587 

Browder, Earl 597, 655 

Brown, Pete (Peter B.) 579 

C 

Campbell (William Joseph) 657 

Carter, Rachel. {See Ellis, Rachel.) 

Cerda, Bill 528, 529 

Cerda, Ray 523 

Cooke, John Edward 594 

Criley, Richard 520-522, 525, 536, 546-560 (testimony) 

Curry, Samuel - 583 

D 
Dency, Albert P. (born Albert P. Zdencaj) 510,599-001 (testimony) 

E 
EWis, Hilliard 529 

Ellis. Rachel (nee Carter; Mrs. Hilliard Ellifi) 509, 

529, 585, 593-595 (testimony) 
Engels (Friedrich) 623 

F 

Fischer, Charles H 527 

G 

Gilmore, Milton 587 

Gray, Hazel 583 

H 

Hackney, John R 509, 

511, 512, 573-589 (testimony), 590, 594, 598, 646, 650, 651, 656 

Hart, Pearl M 601 

Hayes, Al 615 

Hayes, Charles A 509, 529, 583, 585, 589-593 (testimony), 593, 640, 647 

Helstein, Ralph 516, 518, 573, 577, 653 

Hitler (Adolf) 610, 626 

Hoover, J. Edgar 643,657 

J 

Jay, Norman 522 

Johnson, LeRoy 530 



11 INDEX 

K 

Page 

Katzen, Leon (also known as Mike Samuels) 507, 

520-522, 532-546 (testimony), 551, 552 

Keller, James 526, 558, 587 

Khrushchev (Nikita) 620 

Kipp, William 657 

Kramer, Victoria 582, 583 

L 

Lassers, Willard J _ 607 

Lawson, Belford V., Jr__ 560, 562, 564, 566, 568, 570, 589, 593, 595, 644, 647, 651, 654 

Lenin (V. I.) 623,625,626 

Lewis, John 511, 530, 578, 587, 641, 644-647 (testimony) 

Lightfoot, Claude 579 

Luke, Randolph 578 

Lundgren, Lee 598 

M 

March, Herb 523, 527 

March, Jane 523, 527 

Mariani, Sam 529 

Marks, F. Raymond, Jr 607 

Marx (Karl) 623 

Mates, David 523, 527 

McBain, Francis William 510,601-606 (testimony) 

Medina ( Harold ) 597 

Meyers, Irving 631 

Mitchell, Charles 578 

N 

Nelson, Carl 507-509, 511, 518-532 (testimony), 537 (testimony), 

538, 554, 555, 561, 563, 567, 569, 571, 578, 583, 598, 651, 656 

O 
Orear, Leslie 507, 508, 523, 526, 527, 530, 560-562 (testimony), 585, 641, 64T 

P 

Parks, Samuel J., Jr 508, 524, 525. 527-529, 

564-566 (testimony), 578, 579, 584, 640, 647 

Poskonka, Joseph A 510-512, 637-644 (testimony), 645, 646, 649, 656 

Proctor, Charles 511,512,528,530,578,586,587,647-650 (testimony) 

Prosten, Jesse E 512, 526, 529, 573, 578, 584, 641, 647, 653, 654^656 (testimony) 

R 

Ramirez, Jos6 578, 586 

Rhee, Syngman 618 

Richards, James Jesse 578 

Rix, William 584 

Roosevelt, James 521, 551 

Rosser, Louis 555 

S 
Samuels, Mike. (See Katzfen, Leon.) 

Sechrest, Jack 578 

Siporin, Seymour 582 

Smith, Donald H 511, 530, 584, 651-653 (testimony) 

Souther, Jack 508,527,566-568 ( testimony ), 585, 641, 647 

Stalin (Joseph) 620 

Steinberg, Irving G 532, 546 

Stephens, A. T 596 

Stern, Meyer 576, 585 



nsTDEX lii 

T 

Page 

Thompson, Roy (543 

Truman (Harry S.) Z_"ZI~ I~ ZI_~ 547 

Turner, Leo 509, 529, 530, 595^599 (testimony) 

W 

Wailes, Gloria 508, 528, 568-570 (testimony) 

Warren, Earl 534^ 547^ 549 

Weightman, Philip 532 554 

Williams, Dock ~"SS SS _ ' 584 

Wilson, Oscar III_III ~ _~I_~ 581 



Zabritski, Joseph 508, 524, 529, 570-572 (testimony), 578, 588, 641 647 

Zenchuk, Olga _ ' 535 

Organizations 

A 
AFLr-CIO, Illinois 59O 592 

Industrial Union Council Board II^I^.I I 590592 

Abraham Lincoln Brigade ~_Z I_" ' 530 

Abraham Lincoln Center Z Z_Z Z__ _ 577 

Abraham Lincoln School, Waukegan, 111 Z_ZZ Z_~ 600 

Aluminum Corp. of America ZZ ~ 5'>3 

American Excelsior Co . ZZ Z__ _Z ~ 5^2 

American Slav Congress Z_Z ZZZ_ZZ ~_Z 640 

American Student Union 



American Veterans Committee, Waukegan fjOl 

American Youth for Democracy _ ~ _ ~qiq qh 

Armour & Co — 523Z~56"lZ'563~, 579, oSs', 656 

Automobile, Aircraft, and Agricultural Implement Workers of America 

CIO, Local 453 529, 535, 594 

C 

Campbell Soup Co g39 

Chicago Committee of Negro Youth Z Z_Z_Z__~ Z~~ 594 

Chicago Committee to Defend Democratic Rights Z__Z__ZZ 507 

^. .,„.,, ^ .„. 520^522, 536, 542, 549Z55I, 552 

Civil Rights Congress, Illinois executive board _ _ _ 639 

Communist Party, USA : 

Trade Union Commission _ _ 539 

District 8 (Illinois and part of Lake County," Ind.)_~ __Z_ Z~ ZZZ_ 530 

District 12 (Northwest District) r_~611 613 616 

Illinois : - . > 

Chicago- _ 613 gi4 

Fourteenth Ward branch 539 

Packinghouse Section _~529, 578, 587, 639-641 

Armour branch _ 523, 526, 578, 641 

Back-of-the-Yards Club ___ 639 641 

Joseph Hill Club I~.__I~___ ' 639 

Section Committee 520, 522, 524, 526, 527, 530, 585, 587, 588 

Small house branch 577-579 

Swift branch ~ 503 573 

Wilson & Co. branch _"_ — _Z.__Z.~__~_Z.__ 524, 526Z 527,' 578 

Section 5, Section Committee 529 

Section 5, Unit 10. (See Unit 5-10.) 

South Side branch 579 533 

Thirty-fourth Ward branch Z Z ' 599 

Twenty-eighth Ward branch Z ~_ 530 

Twenty-fourth Ward branch ~ - - - - 

Unit 5-10 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ~ 522 

Waukegan ~ ^-^i 

~ Washington State Z Z Z ZZZZZZZ~ZZ 613 



iV INDEX 

E 

Page 

Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of Amercia, United 530, 598, 633 

F 

Farm Equipment and Metal Workers of America, United CIO 583 

Freedom of the Press Committee, Chicago 525, 531 

H 
Hammond, G. H. & Co 525,530,574 

Hawthorne Plumbing Co 570 

Hotel and Restaurant Employees' International Alliance and Bartenders' 
International League of America, AFL : Miscellaneous Employees' Union 
(San Francisco) 608,609 

I 
Illinois Meat Co 578 

J 

James Keller Defense Committee 558 

Jewish Federation, Chicago 510, 607 

M 

Machinists, International Association of 510, 634, 635 

Lodge No. 113 (Tool and Die Makers) 521, 601, 613-615, 617 

Meat Cutters and Butcher Workmen of North America, Amalgamated, 

AFD-CIO 509, 574 

Midwest Committee for Protection of Foreign Born 581, 639, 642 

Miller & Hart 571, 578 

N 

National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 640 

National Negro Congress 581 

National Negro Labor Council 525, 528, 531, 640 

National Student League 608 



Packinghouse Labor and Commimity Center 511, 647 

Packinghouse Workers of America, United, AFL.-CIO_ 508, 509, 511, 516, 518, 521. 
526, 527, 560, 562, 567, 568, 573, 574, 577, 579, 581, 582, 586, 587, 641, 651, 654 

District 1 508, 509, 565, 566, 585, 589, 593, 595, 639, 642 

District 6 : 576, 584, 585 

District 7 585 

Local 11 (Boston) 655 

Local 23 587 

LcK-al 25 (Wilson & Co.) 508, 528, 568, 571, 584, 585, 588 

Local 26 (G. H. Hammond & Co.) 574, 587 

Local 28 (Swift & Co.) 511, 512, 528, 587, 645, 648 

Local 347 (Armour) 527, 563, 583 

Public Review Commission 517 

Price, Walter, Co 525 

Progressive Party, Chicago 566 

S 
Swift & Co 511, 523, 530, 574, 582, 583, 587, 644, 651 

W 

Wilson & Co 524, 529, 570, 583, 500 

Workers School, Chicago 544, 641 

World Peace Congress, Second Congress, Nov. 16-22, 1950, Warsaw, 

Poland 649 

Wyckoff Steel Co 523 



INDEX V 

Y 

Page 

Young Communist League 596, 610, 611 

California 510, 608, 609 

Northwest District (Washington State, Oregon) 610 

PtTBLICATIONS 

CBI Round-Up 612 

Chicago Star (newspaper) 525, 527, 528, 583 

Daily Worker 524, 525, 583 

Packinghouse Worker, The 1 507, 560 

o 



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