COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION
(EDUCATION-PART 3)
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN:AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
j,vc..i ^^^HOUSE OF .EEPKESENTATIVES
LCLi J. ,, nlM.
EIGHTY-THIRD CONGKESS
FIRST SESSION
APRIL 21 AND 22, 1953
Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities
INCLUDING INDEX
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
•••"172 WASHINGTON : 1953
Boston Public Library
Superintendent of Documents
JUN 2 1 1953
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Representatives
HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois, Chairman
BERNARD W. KEARNEY. New York FRANCIS E. WALTER Pennsylvania
DONALD L. JACKSON. CaUfornia MORGAN M. MOULDER. Missouri
KITCLARDY Michigan CLYDE DOYLE. California
gJ)rSn H SCHERER. Ohio JAMES B. FRAZIER. Jk., Tennessee
ROBEHT L. KCNZIG, Counsel
Frank S. Tavenner, Jr.. Counsel
Locis J. RcssELL, Chief InvcstUiator
Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk
Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research
II •
CON ^J^ E N T S
April 21, 1953: Pag«
Testimony of —
Leo M. Hurvich
. .,„„ Theodore S. Polumbaum 977
Apnl22, 1953: 988
Testimony of —
William T. Martin.
Paul Rudolph Zilsel 1014
Isadore Amdur _ _ '" 1035
^ , Max Weitzman 1046
Index 1061
The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American Activities
operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 753, 2d session, which
provides :
Be it enacted ft?/ the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of America in Congress assembled, * * *
PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Rule X
STANDING COMMITTEES
* * * « H: * *
17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members.
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
*******
121 (q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities.
(A) Un-American activities.
(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit-
tee, is authorized to malie from time to time investigations of (i) the extent,
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and
attaclis the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Consti-
tution, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress
in any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnes'ses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.
; EULES ADOPTED BY THE 83D CONGRESS
House Resolution 5, January 3, 1953
RuleX
standing committees
1, There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con-
gress, the following standing committees :
* ******
(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members.
»♦*♦***
Rule XI
POWEBS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
17. Committee on Un-American Activities.
(a) Un-American Activities.
(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is authorized to malje from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char-
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop-
aganda that is instigated from foi-eign countries or of a domestic origin and
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu-
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress
in any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any suljcommittee, or by any
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig-
nated by any such chairman or member.
VI
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTEATION
(Education— Part 3)
TUESDAY, APRIL 21, 1953
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Committee
ON Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D. G.
PUBLIC hearing
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to call, at 10 : 37 a. m., in the caucus room, room 362, Old
House Office Building, Hon. Harold H. Velde (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde
(chairman), Kit Clardy, Gordon H, Scherer (appearance noted in
transcript), Francis E. Walter (appearance noted in transcript),
Clyde Doyle (appearance noted in transcript), and James B. Frazier,
Jr. (appearance noted in transcript).
Statf members present: Robert L. Kunzig, counsel; Frank S. Tav-
enner, Jr., counsel; Louis J. Russell, chief investigator; Raphael I.
Nixon, director of research ; and Thomas W. Beale, Sr., cliief clerk.
Mr. Velde. The meeting will come to order.
Let the record show I have appointed a subcommittee consisting of
Mr. Clardy and myself as chairman for the jDurposes of this hearing.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Is Mr. Leo M. Hurvich in the hearing room ?
Mr. Forer. Mr. Chairman, may the record show we object to the
absence of a full quorum of the committee.
Mr. Velde. Just a minute— after I swear the witness.
Mr. Forer. I wanted to get it in before — that is all.
Mr. Velde. Will you raise your right hand ?
In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee,
do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Hurvich. Yes ; I do.
Mr. Forer. May the record show our objections, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Be seated, please.
TESTIMONY OF LEO M. HURVICH, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, JOSEPH FOEER
Mr. Ta\^nner. Wliat is your name, please, sir ?
Mr. Hurvich. Leo M. Hurvich.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you accompanied by counsel ?
977
978 COIVIMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Clardy. May I have that last name spelled ? I didn't catch it.
Mr. HuRvicH. It is H-u-r-v-i-c-h.
Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. FoRER. Joseph Forer, 711 14th Street NW., Washington, D. C.
Mr. TA^^3N^^ER. When and where were you born, Mr. Hurvich?
Mr. Hurvich. I was born on September 11, 1910, in Maiden, Mass.
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ?
Mr. Hurvich. I am sorry. Where I am what ?
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ?
Mr. Hurvich. Rochester, N. Y.
Mr. Taa^nner. What is your occupation ?
Mr. Hurvich. I am an experimental psychologist.
Mr. Tavenner. Employee! by whom ?
Mr. Hurvich. Eastman Kodak Co.
Mr. Clardy. I didn't catch the description of your occupation.
Mr. Hurvich. I'm sorry, sir.
Mr. Clardy. Well, in this room, I should warn you, the acoustics
are bad, as we have discovered, and you will have to speak distinctly
and fairly close to the microphone in order to be heard.
Mr. Hur"vt:ch. I am an experimental psychologist, working in the
psychophysics color division.
Mr. Clardy. Thank you.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your
formal educational training has consisted of ?
Mr. Hurvich. I went to the public schools, Chelsea, Mass. I re-
ceived a bachelor of arts degree at Harvard College in 1932, master's
degree, same institution, in 1934, and a doctor of philosophy at Har-
vard in 1936.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you followed any other profession before the
beginning of the profession in which you are now engaged?
Well, let me put it this way : What has been your record of employ-
ment since the completion of your formal educational training in 1936?
Mr. HunvicH. I was an assistant in psychology for 1 year, 1936 to
1937.
Mr. Tavenner. You mean an assistant professor?
Mr. Hurvich. No; assistant — research — not a research assistant —
assistant in the department of psychology — a laboratory assistant, I
guess.
Mr. Tavenner. At what institution ?
Mr. Hurvich. Harvard — 1936 to 1937 — and I was then an instruc-
tor in— -from 1936— or 1937 to 1940.
Mr. Tavenner. Where?
Mr. Hurvich. Harvard.
Mr. Tavenner. In what field ?
Mr. Hurvich. Psychology.
In 1940 to 1947 — the middle of 1947 — I was a research assistant in
the laboratory, industrial physiology. The title varied some. I think
it might have been called laboratory of industrial physiology and psy-
chology of the graduate school of business administration. Harvard
University.
(Representative Francis E. Walter entered the hearing room at this
point.)
Mr. Velde. At this point may the record show that I have appointed
a new subcommittee for the purposes of this hearing, consisting of
Mr. Clardy, Mr. Walter, and myself as chairman.
COMRimsIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 979
Mr. HuR\^CH. Wliile on this job for 6 months or so — I'm not sure
about the exact length of time — I worked for a research project asso-
ciated with the Frankford — the Ordnance Division of the Frankford
Arsenal — but that was on leave of absence when I did that work.
Mr. TA^^]s^NER. Now, will you describe more fully what this re-
search job was with the Ordnance Division of which you spoke?
Mr. HuR\^CH. I was loaned for 6 months on a testing program to
test some instruments that were being tested under conditions of
cold weather?
Mr. Tavenner. Were those secret weapons of the Armed Forces of
the United States?
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Hurvich. I think it would not be called a secret weapon at all,
sir.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Did you have access during that period to infor-
mation that was considered of a classified or secret or confidential
character ?
Mr. Hurvich. For only confidential character — to the best of my
recollection, I never had any access to secret information.
Mr. Ta\t3Nner. This work was done for the United States Govern-
ment or in behalf of the United States Government, was it?
Mr. Hurvich. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you paid by the United States Govern-
ment
Mr. Hurvich. Durino- that
Mr. Ta\t:nner (continuing). For your services during that period
of time ?
Mr. Hurvich. During that interval ; yes.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Who employed you to that position, and how were
you employed?
Mr. Hurvich. By "who," you mean
Mr. Tavenner. Yes; what were the mechanics for emploj'ing you
in that particular undertaking?
Mr. HuR^^CH. I think I was given a civil-service appointment for
that 6 months, or at the end of it.
Is that what you mean ?
Mr. TA^^x^^ER. Well, that is in part an answer to my question, but
not fully.
Mr. Hurvich. I'm not
Mr. TA^^NNER. Give us the mechanics under which your service in
that work was solicited, and if it was solicited
Mr. Hurvich. Oh, I believe it was.
Mr. Ta\tenxer (continuing). Or whether you applied for the
position.
Mr. Hurvich. No ; I did not apply for the position. It was solic-
ited. To the best of my knowledge there was a series of projects
throughout various laboratories investigating roughly similar prob-
lems, and at the time the people in the Frankford project were in
need of someone and asked the people at the project I was working on,
Harvard, if I could be loaned to them ; and I believe there was much
discussion about my availability, and I think they said they could
have me for 6 months, or approximately 6 months. I don't remember
the exact
980 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. Would you describe a little more fully to the com-
mittee what the nature of your work was ?
Mr. HuR\^CH. At that time?
Mr. Ta\^nner. Yes ; during that 6 months period.
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer) .
Mr Tavenner. Let me state I am not asking you to divulge intor-
mation which was considered of a secret character and which should
not be known publicly, if there is any information of that kind
^^Mr^HuRvicH. I don't think I had information of that sort available
to me. It was a project simply to determine the way the temperature
varied on certain optical instruments'.
Mr. Tavenner. Sir? i.- i :„
Mr. Hurvich. The way the temperatures withm certain optical in-
struments varied. . , , . , . ,
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the period during which you were so
^^r^'HuBviCH. November— approximately November 1943 through
about May or June 1944. v ^. 4-i.„
Mr Tavenner. Now, will you tell the committee, please, what the
nature of your duties were while a resident instructor, as I understood,
at Harvard, between 1940 and 1947, when you held the position ot
industrial physicist?
If I
Mr. Hurvich. Well
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the exact — —
Mr. HuRvacH. I did no instructing.
I would like to get this clear : I have done no teaching whatsoever
since the year 1940. , , , .
Mr. Tavenner. Then, will you define more clearly your occupation
between 1940 and 1947? ^ ^ ,. -. • . i -u
Mr Hurvich. Between 1940 and 1947 I did experimental research
in the area of vision and optical instruments mainly. They were con-
cerned with problems of the performance of the eye, the way the eye
functions under certain conditions of depth perception, under certain
conditions of strenuous activity. I was concerned with the problems
of investigation— investigating— on a satisfactory kind of illuminating
conditions somewhere— problems of visual fatigue. I was doing ex-
perimental work in the laboratory throughout that 7-year period, with
the exception of my leave of absence— and there I was working on
instruments. , -, • .i jt ^^^
Mr. Tavenner. By whom where you employed m the performance
of that work ? ..■.-,■,.■ ^ ^
Mr Hurvich. Harvard University would be the ultimate employer.
Mr Tavenner. What do you mean by "ultimate employer i
Mr Hurvich. I was working in a laboratory with other persons,
and I had an immediate supervisor. That's all I mean. He wasn t
paying me personally, but
Mr. Tavenner. But you
Mr. Hurvich (continuing) . I was sort of on my own.
Mr. Tavenner (continuing). Were on the staff?
Mr. Hurvich. I was on the staff.
Mr. Tavenner. Of Harvard University ?
Mr. Hurvich. That's right.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 981
Mr. Ta\:en"ner. Mr. Hurvich, information has come to the commit-
tee, and the committee is in possession of it, which indicates that there
existed in Boston during at least part of the time that you were at
Harvard University an organized group of the Communist Party made
up almost exclusively of members of the teaching profession, and
information has come to the committee that you are in a position to
help this committee by giving us facts within your knowledge regard-
ing that organized group of the Communist Party, what its objectives
were and what its methods of operations were. So, I want
Mr. Walter. Counsel, you might identify from what source we have
received this information.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Walter. I think that is very important.
Mr. Tavexner. Yes, sir.
Now, I would like to ask you whether or not there was a group,
an organized group, of the Communist Party in Boston known to
you personally to have been composed largely of members of the teach-
ing profession ?
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
(Representative James B. Frazier, Jr., entered the hearing room
at this point.)
Mr. Hurvich. I refuse to answer on the grounds that this violates
my rights of free speech and association under the jfirst amendment
and also on the basis of my privilege under the fifth amendment not
to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Tav-enner. We have heard from other witnesses who have
testified before the committee that one of the objectives of the Com-
munist Party was to have its members infiltrate certain other organ-
izations in that area, and the Teachers' Union in particular. Do you
have any knowledge of your own of any efforts on the part of the Com-
munist Party to infiltrate other organizations?
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Hurvich. I refuse to answer that question for the reasons I
have already stated.
Mr. Tavexner. Were you a member of the Teachers' Union to which
I have referred ?
I believe the name is the American Federation of Teachers.
Mr. Hurvich. Yes; I was.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Over what period of time were you a member ?
Mr. Hurvich. I think I was a member of the Teachers' Union from
1948 [sic], probably, until 1945 or 1946— I'm not exactly certain of
the dates on that
Mr. Tavenner. During that period
Mr. Hurvich (continuing). Or 1947; but I have been in the Teach-
ers' Union. I am not positive of the exact dates involved.
Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time, did you become ac-
quainted with a person by the name of Robert Gorham Davis?
Mr. Hurvich. Yes ; I've met him.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the Teachers' Union at the
same time you were ?
Mr. Hurvich. I believe he was.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Did you become acquainted with Mr. Granville
Hicks?
Mr. Hurvich. No ; I don't know Mr. Granville Hicks.
982 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Dr. Wendell H.
Furry ?
Mr. HuR^^CH. I know Dr. Wendell H. Furry.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the Teachers' Union at the
same time you were?
Mr. HuRvicH. I believe he was.
Mr Tavtsnner. Do you know of any Communist Party connection
or affiliation of either of those gentlemen— Mr. Davis or Mr. Furry?
Mr. HuRvicH. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Mr Tavenner. Mr. Davis testified before this committee as to how
the effort was made to control the Teachers' Union by caucuses of
Communist Party members prior to the meetings of the Teachers
Union. Do you have any knowledge of the holding of any caucuses
by groups within the Teachers' Union who were members of t ae Com-
munist Party ? . „ ,
Mr. HuRvicH. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Ta\T!:nner. Were you a member of the Cambridge Branch of the
American Association of Scientific Workers ?
Mr. HuRVicH. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, now
Mr. Walter. What was the name of that organization?
Mr. Tavenner. The name of the organization was the Cambridge
Branch of the American Association of Scientific Workers.
Mr. Walter. Is that a Communist organization ?
Mr. Tavenner. It has never been so cited.
I don't believe it has ever been so cited. I should check on that.
Mr Clardy. Is that the organization the witness Davis discussed?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Mr. Davis said that he, himself, was not a
member, but he testified as to other persons who joined that organiza-
It has not been cited by the Attorney General or by this committee,
but it has been by a California committee.
Of course, in all of those front organizations there were many per-
sons who were innocently in the organizations and who were not
members of the Communist Party. _ -.-.i., . i
Mr. Walter. Well, Mr. Chairman, at this point I would like to ask
the witness several questions.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Kurvich .
Mr. HuRvicH. It's Hurvich, sir. I think you mispronounced it. its
Hurvich.
Mr. Clardy. Would you spell it again ?
I put down what you said, but with this microphone I am not sure.
Mr. Hurvich. That is H-u-r-v— as in Victor— i-c-h.
Mr. Walter. Well, I called it Kurvich instead of Hurvich.
Mr. Hurvich. That's right.
Mr. Walter. I apologize.
You knew what I meant.
Mr. Hurvich. Yes.
Mr. Walter. Well, in view of the fact you knew it was not a crime,
did you not, to be a member of the Communist Party, what criminal
prosecution do you think could be instituted against you if you de-
cline to answer the question whether or not you were a member of an
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 983
organization that has not been cited by the Attorney General as being
a Communist orofanization ?
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Hurvich. I decline to answer that question on the same reasons
previously given.
JNIr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mr. Israel Halperin —
H-a-1-p-e-r-i-n?
Mr. Hurvich. I think not, sir.
Mr. Clardy. You say you think not. Do you have any recollection
at all?
Mr. Hurvich. I may have seen him. I don't— I don't think I know
him. I think I may have seen him in Cambridge, but that is the reason
I say I think not. I don't know.
Mr. Clardy. Counsel, can you identify
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Clardy (continuing). The person more fully, or maybe help
hmi refresh his memory ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Maybe I can refresh his recollection.
^ He was a member of the Cambridge branch of the American Asso-
ciation of Scientific Workers.
Does that assist you in recalling his name ?
( At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer. )
Mr. Hurvich. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Subsequent to his leaving Harvard University he
went to Canada, and there he was prosecuted, though acquitted, in the
Canadian trial under the Canadian War Secrets Act.
Does that refresh your recollection?
Mr. Hurvich. I believe
Do you have the date on his leaving Harvard ?
I think he was out of Harvard before I was there.
Mr. Clardy. Well, if you don't know him, how would you know
he was out of Harvard before you were there?
^Mr. Hurvich. The reason— the name does sound familiar. I'm
only trying to indicate I don't think I knew the man.
Mr. Clardy. But if you didn't know him
Mr. Hurvich. I am trying to say
Mr. Clardy (continuing) . You knew of him ?
Mr. HuEvicH. The name is familiar, and now that you mention
him there is a possibility he was back in Cambridge and attended a
luncheon of the Teachers' Union. That may be the only connection
which that man's name has any meaning at all.
Mr. Clardy. Then what you are saying is you do have some recol-
lection of the man as a person
Mr. Hurvich. Yes ; but I don't know him.
Mr. Clardy (continuing) . Without knowing him personally ?
Mr. Hur%t[ch. That is right.
Mr. Clardy. In other words, he was not a friend of yours ?
Mr. Hurvich. Or an acquaintance, neither.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Davis testified that he was a member of the
Communist Party group of which he was a member while a teacher
at Harvard University and that he had joined the Cambridge branch
of the Association of Scientific Workers as one of the duties of a
Communist Party member of that group.
984 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Does that in any way refresh your recollection ?
Mr. HuRvicH. That who joined ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Halperin.
Mr. HuRvicH. I don't know Mr. Halperin, to the best of my knowl-
edge. I think the Congressman — Congressman Clardy — phrased that
as well as I could possibly do. I think I heard the name and may
have known who he was around Cambridge
Mr. Tavenner. Well, you
Mr. HuRvicH (continuing). But I don't know him, or don't even
know him as an acquaintance.
(Representative Clyde Doyle entered the hearing room at this
point.)
Mr. Tavenner. Well, you seemed uncertain about it, and possibly
,by recalling facts that are within the knowledge of the committee
regarding the individual it may help you to recall the facts, and I
want to present another set of facts to you.
The committee is in possession of information that during the
course of Mr. Halperin's trial a committee was established by the
Cambridge branch of the Association of Scientific Workers for the
purpose of studying that trial and that eventually funds were solicited
at Harvard for the purpose of defending Halperin in his trial.
Does that refresh your recollection regarding him ?
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. HuRvicii. What is that supposed to refresh my recollection of,
Mr. Tavenner?
Mr. Tavenner. As to your having known a person by the name oi
Halperin.
Mr. HuR\^CH. I didn't know Mr. Halperin.
Mr. Tavenner. You say you didn't know him, but when I asked
you that question you were uncertain as to whether you knew him.
Mr. Hurvich. Only because
Mr. Tavenner. Just a minute.
Mr. Hurvich. Sorry.
Mr. Ta\t3NNER. Do these facts which I have related cause you to
believe you never knew him, when yoii were uncertain to begin with?
If you were uncertain to begin with as to whether or not you knew
him, how can you be so certain now after recitation of these facts
Mr. Hurvich. Upon the first
Mr. Tavenner (continuing). That you did not know him?
Mr. Hurvich. Upon the first mention of the name, I simply paused,
stopped, to think of the man. I was uncertain, as I think most people
might be under such circumstances ; and, as you proceed, I am more
certain I don't know him personally, or never met him. I'm sorry.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, I think he has explained it.
Mr. Clardy. May I add
Mr. Velde. Just a minute.
Mr. Clardy. Pardon me.
Mr Velde. I think he has explained, to his knowledge, his ac-
quaintanceship with Mv. Halperin, but I would like to ask this ques-
tion : Were you a part of the organization that was created to defend
Mr. Halperin? . ,
Mr. Hurvich. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Clardy. ISIay I just ask one question?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 985
Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting with
Mr. Halperin?
Mr. HuRviCH. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Clardy. Did you ever liave any knowledge of Mr. Halperin
being a Communist ?
(At this point ]\Ir. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Hurvich. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Clardy. That is all, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you make any contribution to Mr. Halperin's
defense ?
Mr. Hurvich. I refuse for the same reasons.
Mr. Ta%tenner. Are you now
Mr. Walter. What crime is a person guilty of who contributes to
any cause at all, no matter what it is ?
What crime did I commit when I contributed $200 to the Anti-
Fascist League at a time it was fighting Hitler? What crime was
committed ?
Mr. Hurvich. I don't know, sir.
Mr. Walter. Well, now, you have declined to answer questions on
the grounds that you might become incriminated; and then when
I asked you what crime, you say j'OU don't know.
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Hurvich. I didn't know what crime you were guilty of when
you contributed, is what I am saying.
Mr. Walter. Well, now, what crime do you think you were guilty
of when you contributed to the defense of Mr. Halperin, if you
did?
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Hurvich. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds
earlier stated.
Mr. Walter. Well, then, you feel to answer my question as to what
crime you think you would be guilty of if you answered the question
as to your contribution might incriminate you ?
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Hurvich. I decline for the same reasons.
Mr. Clardy. Do you think, Witness, a flat statement that you never
belonged to any organization communistically inclined would incrim-
inate you in some way?
Mr. Hurvich. Would you rephrase that or restate it?
Mr. Clardy. Bead it to him, Mr. Reporter.
(The reporter read the question as follows :)
Do you think, Witness, a flat statement that you never belonged to any organ-
ization conamunistieally inclined would incriminate you in some way?
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Hurvich. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. Clardy. Do you think a refusal to answer
Mr. Hurvich (continuing). For the same reasons.
Mr. Clardy (continuing) . That question will in some way endanger
you or put you in jeopardy ?
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Clardy (continuing). And before you answer I want to point
out this to you, sir: That you are entitled to raise the defense of
986 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
the fifth amendment, but only in good faith ; and what these questions
are aiming at is to discover whether or not there is a solid basis for
your raising it or whether it is a frivolous objection, merely designed
to circumvent the purposes for which this committee was created.
Now, then, you may answer.
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Hurvich. In reply to your first — your last statement, I would
like to emphasize — and emphasize strongly — that I don't think I'm
taking this frivolously. I'm trying to answer the questions in good
faith. I believe, however, that the cross-examination which you are
now proceeding in is an effort to, in effect, get behind my claim of
privilege and, therefore, I assert my privilege again because it is sim-
ply another method of asking the same question.
Mr. Clardy. Am I to construe that, sir, as a refusal to answer my
last question on the grounds previously advanced ?
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Hdrvicii. I don't remember the last question. I'm sorry, sir.
Mr. Clardy. Will you read it to him, Mr. Reporter?
(The reporter read the question as follows :)
Do you think a refusal to answer that question will in some way endanger you
or put you in jeopardy?
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Hurvich. My refusal to answer it won't put me in jeopardy.
Mr. Clardy. You think not?
Mr. Hurvich. I believe so.
Mr. Clardy. Well, you may be in error, of course, in that.
Mr. Hurvich. Well
Mr. Clardy. That is all.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Hurvich. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons
previously mentioned.
INIr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Hurvich. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons.
Mr. Ta\^nner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Clardy. Is your apprehension. Witness, based on the fact you
might be incriminated in some way, other than being discovered to
be a Communist?
Mr. Hurvich. In some way other than being discovered to be a
Communist?
Mr. Clardy. Right.
Mr. Hurvich. My apprehension is pretty general in the sense
that
(At this point Mr. Hurvich conferred with Mr. Forer.)
Mr. Hurvich. I shall refuse to answer that question, sir, for the
same reason.
Mr. Clardy. That is all.
Mr. Velde. ]\Ir. Walter.
(No response.)
Mr. Velde. Mr. Frazier.
Mr. Frazier. No questions.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. No questions.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 987
Mr. Velde. Mr. Hurvich, you were called here because you have
some information — or we are fairly certain you have some informa-
tion— that would help the committee in performing its functions. I
want to ask you this question, in all due respect to counsel : If you
hadn't had counsel present, would you have answered the questions
that were put to you by our counsel ?
Mr. Hurvich. Would I have answered them in the same way?
Mr. Velde. Yes.
Mr. Hurvich. I believe I would have answered them in the same
way; yes.
Mr. Cl.\rdy. Or declined to answer them in the same way.
Mr. Hurvich. Declined to answer them in the same way.
Mr. FoRER. I guess that shows I'm not much good around here.
Mr. Velde. Is there any reason why this witness shouldn't be con-
tinued under subpena?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
]VIr. Velde. Witness is excused, and the committee will stand in
recess for 10 minutes.
(Whereupon, at 11 : 10 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene
at 11:20 a. m.)
(The hearing reconvened at 11 : 32 a. m.)
Mr. Velde. Will the reporter let the record show at this point
present are Mr. Clardy, Mr. Scherer, Mr. Walter, Mr. Doyle, Mr.
Frazier, and the chairman, a quorum of the full committee.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Polumbaum, would you stand and be sworn?
Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this com-
mittee, do 3'ou solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Polumbaum. I do.
ISIr. KuNziG. Are you represented by counsel, Mr. Polumbaum and,
if so, would counsel state his name and address for the record?
Mr. Shubow. Lawrence D. Shubow — S-h-u-b-o-w — 10 Tremont
Street, Boston.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Shubow, have you personally ever appeared be-
fore this committee — I mean as a lawyer, counsel ?
Mr. Shubow. No; I've been before the — what's the other com-
mittee?
IVf r. KuNziG. Well, you haven't been before this committee ?
Mr. Shubow\ As far as I know,
Mr. KuNziG. Then, you understand you may confer with your client
but you, yourself, may not speak unless you are sworn as a witness.
Mr. Shubow. I may serve merely as counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. You may confer privately with your client at any time.
Mr. Shubow. As counsel?
Mr. KuNziG. As counsel.
Mr. Shubow. I understand.
30172— 53— pt. 3-
988 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
TESTIMONY OF THEODORE S. POLUMBAIJM, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, LA WHENCE D. SHUBOW
Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your full name and present address,
Mr. Polumbaum?
Mr. Polumbaum. My name is Theodore S. Polumbaum, 123 Nor-
wood Avenue, Newtonville, Mass.
Mr. KuNziG. When and where were you born ?
Mr. PoLU]MBAUM. I was born June 4, 1924, in a Brooklyn Jewish
hospital, Brooklyn, N. Y.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you briefly outline your educational back-
ground for the committee ?
Mr. Polumbaum. Yes. I was graduated from Harrison High
School, Harrison, N. Y., in June of 1942. I entered Yale University
the summer of 1942.
My education was interrupted in 1943, when I entered the Army
in February of 1943. I served 3 years in the Armed Forces, spent 18
months in the Pacific theater, and was discharged from the Army in
January of 1946, resumed my studies at Yale in the fall of the same
year and was graduated from Yale University June 1948.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, would you outline your employment background,
including temporary positions held by you during student days at
college ?
Mr. Polumbaum. You want a complete employment background?
Mr. KuNziG. Let's say-
Mr. Polumbaum. I have difficulty recalling all the temporary
Mr. KuNziG. To the best of your recollection.
Mr. Polumbaum. I am presently employed as a television script
writer, Boston Bureau of the United Press. I have been with the
United Press since July 1950. Prior to that time I was employed
by a public relations and research organization known as Radio Re-
ports, Inc., in New York City, and from June 1948, until December
1949, I was employed as a reporter-photographer, deskman, with a
daily newspaper in Pennsylvania.
Mr. KuNziG. "V^Hiat city of Pennsylvania ?
Mr. Polumbaum. York.
Mr. KuNziG. York, Pa.
And what was the name of the paper ?
Mr. Polumbaum. The Gazette and Daily.
Mr. KuNziG. Gazette and Daily.
Prior to the time you were in York, Pa., what was your employ-
ment?
Mr. Polumbaum. I had various odd jobs in college. In addition
to being a scholarship student from the college itself in Yale, I
worked in the law library as an assistant for a brief period — I don't
know exactly when — and I worked in a factory, in the packing de-
partment of the rubber factory — I can't even remember the name —
while at school.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Polumbaum, your employment then — the first
em})loyment after you got out of college — was with the York news-
paper, and then you went to this Radio Reports, Inc., and then finally,
from July 1950, until the present time, with United Press?
Mr. Polumbaum. That is correct.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 989
Mr. KuNziG. Now, during your student days at Yale University,
were you acquainted with an organization known as the John Reed
Chib?
Mr. PoLUinBAUM. I would like to state to the committee that I will
not answer that question or any similar questions referring to my
political affiliations and beliefs, and I will not cooperate with this
committee in any attempt to get me though — in any attempt to ask
me to waive my rights under the first and fifth amendments. Fur-
ther, I should like to state that I will not answer any such questions
on grounds that I — I will not be compelled to bear witness against
myself or against any others and to turn informer before this com-
mittee and to cooperate in the apparent efforts of this committee to
disparage and belittle the Bill of Rights, on which I am standing,
and ultimately, I believe, to destroy these rights.
Mr. Clardy. Pardon me. Counsel.
Witness, did you understand that question was no more than ask-
ing you if you knew of the organization, not whether you were a
member, not whether you were a Communist — nothing of that kind —
merely did you know of that outfit ?
Now, with that understanding, will you answer the question?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. Yes; I knew of that organization.
Mr. Clardy. You had that in mind when you gave the answer ?
Mr. Polumbaum. That I knew about the organization ? No ; I mis-
understood
Mr. Clardy. That you knew the purpose of the question. It was
not to inquire as to membership, but as to whether or not you knew
there was such an organization.
Mr. Polumbaum. I misunderstood the question. Pardon me.
Mr. Clardy. You understood, then.
Then, Mr. Chairman, I ask that he be directed to answer the
question.
Mr. KuNziG. He has answered.
Mr. Clardy. Obviously his objection
Mr. Polumbaum. I have answered the question sir.
Mr. Clardy. No ; he didn't answer it. He raised the objection and
refused to answer on the grounds of the fifth and the other amend-
ments.
Mr, KuxziG. He answered it.
Mr. Velde. Well, now, do I understand you decline to answer the
question ?
ISIr. Polumbaum. Will you rephrase the question, please ?
Mr. KuNziG. I will repeat the question.
Mr. Polumbaum, during your student days at Yale University,
were you acquainted with an organization known as the John Reed
Club?'
Mr. Polumbaum. I knew of such an organization ; yes.
Mr. KuNziG. "Wliat type of club was the John Reed Club? Wliat
was its purpose ?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. So far as I know, this was an organization which
brought speakers to lecture before groups on Marxism.
Mr. KuNziG. Were you a member of the John Reed Club?
990 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I will not answer that question. I don't believe
the committee has a right to ask that question. I will refuse to answer
it on the grounds which I have just stated.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I request respectfully that the witness
be required and asked that he answer this question.
Mr. Veij)e. Yes. That is a question that is very simple. I can see
no way in which it can incriminate you under the fifth amendment of
the Constitution. You are directed to answer the question.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum, I repeat — I will refuse to answer that question
because to answer it would be cooperating with this committee's pur-
pose to disparage the Bill of Rights, and I will not waive my riglus
under the first and the fifth amendments in answering this question.
1 refuse to answer the question because I will — I cannot be compelled
to bear witness against myself or others under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Walter. Wait a minute. You said "myself or others."
Mr. Shubow. And others.
Mr. Walter. "* * * against myself or others."
Mr. Shubow. And otliers.
Mr. Walter. Well, all right — "and others."
Now, what part of the Constitution are you talking about?
Mr. Polumbaum. The fifth
Mr. Walter. Where in the Constitution is there anything that even
infers that a person can't be compelled to give testimony against some-
body else in any kind of proceedings, criminal or civil 'i
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.) _
Mr. Polumbaum. Sir, the fifth amendment to the Constitution
states that no witness may be compelled to bear witness against him-
self or to testify
Mr. Walter. Wait a minute.
Mr. Polumbaum (continuing). Against himself, and I-
Mr. Walter. Wait a minute — in any criminal proceedings.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Walter (continuing). Most of the witnesses who invoke th©
fifth amendment very conveniently fail to state the entire amend-
ment.
(At this point Mr. Polumbamn conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Walter. This is not a criminal proceeding.
Mr. Polumbaum. Are you denying my right to invoke the fifth
amendment in these proceedings?
Mr. Walter. Indeed not.
Mr. Polumbaum. Well, that is what I am doing.
Mr. Clardy. We are denying you the right to raise it in a frivolous
manner, sir, because you are endangering your own liberty when you
do that.
Mr. PoLuiviBAUM. I think the attempt to disparage the fifth amend-
ment is being done here and this committee, as it has done in past
hearings, is belittling this amendment.
Mr. Clardy. If we ask you any questions at all, we are disparaging
the fifth amendment, in your judgment ?
Mr. Polumbaum. No ; I didn't say
Mr. Clardy. Is that the statement you are making ?
Mr. Polumbaum. No, sir.
I will answer all questions which I believe proper.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 991
Mr. Walter. You will choose the questions that you will answer ;
is that Avhat you are saying?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. PcLUMBAUM. I will answer all questions which don't call upon
me to waive my rights, sir.
Mr. KuNziG. Have you attended any
Mr. Velde. Just a minute, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Pardon me, sir,
Mr. Velde, I would like to pursue the question of Mr. Walter for
a moment.
I believe you said that you were a law student or worked in the law
library at Yale.
Mr. Polumbaum, I worked in the law library for a brief period.
Mr, Velde. Well, Mr. Walter asked you whether the Constitution
protected 3^ou, the fifth amendment of the Constitution protected you,
against incriminating or testifying about somebody else other than
yourself.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Velde (continuing). Now, do you have the feeling that you
are protected by the fifth amendment
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Velde (continuing). In testifying against somebody else other
than yourself ?
Mr. Polumbaum. Well, the fifth amendment protects me against
testifying against myself, and I believe if I waive this amendment
that, therefore, that I then waive all my right not to testify against
others ; is that correct ?
That once I waive my rights under the Consitution, specifically the
fifth amendment, this committee can then make me an informer
Mr. Walter. Just a minute.
Mr. Polumbaum (continuing). On my friends and associates,
Mr. Walter. At that point, "Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question?
Mr. Velde. Yes.
Mr. Walter. What do you mean by an informer?
Mr. Polumbaum. An informer is one who informs and gives in-
formation about his associates which may be used to damage their
reputation or bring them before this committee or subject them to
prosecution or persecution
Mr. Clardy. Do you mean
Mr. Polumbaum (continuing). A stool pigeon.
Mr. Clardy (continuing). You would object, then, to telling this
committee about anything of which you had knowledge concerning
someone else if that someone else was engaged in some conspiracy
against the United States ?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Clardy (continuing) . Is that what you mean, sir ?
Mr. Polumbaum. If I were asked to give my testimony concerning
the illegal activities or an illegal conspiracy in which other people are
involved, I would disassociate myself from such people by condemn-
ing; them and denouncing them
*te
Mr. Clardy. And you would answer
Mr. Polumbaum (continuing). In evidence before this committee.
Mr. Clardy. And you would answer questions about those people?
Mr. Polumbaum. Who are engaged in illegal activities.
992 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Clardy. Then if we should ask you about someone's member-
ship or possible membership in the Communist Party, would you
decline to answer such a question?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I would decline — excuse me.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum (continuing). I would like to restate my position.
1 will not answer any questions of this committee concerning what I
believe in or what my political affiliations are or the political affilia-
tions of anyone with whom I am associated.
Mr. Clardy. Well, that doesn't answer my question, but we will drop
that.
I want to ask you one further question : Have you ever attended
meetings or hearings before this committee before today ?
Mr. Polumbaum. No, sir.
Mr. Clardy. How, then, can you positively talk about the actions
of this committee with respect to the fifth amendment if you have had
no experience with us, sir ?
Mr. Polumbaum. Well, I have consulted with my lawyer.
Mr. Clardy. Oh, you have had advice of your attorney that we are
violating the fifth amendment
Mr. Polumbaum. I haven't — —
Mr. Clardy (continuing). When we ask these questions?
Mr. Polumbaum. I haven't finished.
Mr. Velde. Now, I don't think we should go into what his
attorney
Mr. Clardy. Well, I would differ with you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. I am sorry.
Continue.
Mr. Clardy. I think it is important that we discover whether he is
doing this
Mr. Shubow. I think
Mr. Clardy (continuing). Of his own account.
Mr. Velde. Continue. Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Have you been at any time a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Polumbaum. I won't answer that question on the grounds I
have previously stated, and I would like to state further that this
committee— this committee is asking me questions and implying cer-
tain accusations in such a way as to assume the functions of a grand
jury without affording the protections of a grand jury. In the grand
jury procedure, a person who has been accused or who places an accusa-
tion against such a person
Mr. Velde. Mr. Witness, you are not
Mr. Polumbaum. May I continue, please?
Mr. Velde (continuing). Answering the question.
Mr. Polumbaum. May I
Mr. Velde. You are making a purely voluntary statement, and it is
purely argumentative.
Mr. Polumbaum. I think this comes under due process.
Mr. Velde. The committee will not listen to anything further along
that line. We have heard enough of that before.
I will ask you to answer the questions or refuse to answer them.
Mr. Polumbaum. I would like to state I am stating a further ground
for refusing to answer this question, Mr. Chairman.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 993
Mr. Clardy. When you ^o beyond the fifth amendment, you have
transgressed. Now, the chairman has told you liow far you can go.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Well, the process — the due process is a part of
the fifth amendment, sir.
Mr. Clardy. Are you relying on the fifth amendment in refusing
to answer that last question ?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I think the committee in attempting to restrict
me to stating fifth amendment — fifth amendment — is in itself be-
littling the fifth amendment, and I should like to make clear the fifth
amendment occupies an honorable part of the Constitution and I don't
want to be put in a position of belittling it, because this is my right
and, under due process, I am entitled, if, under — an accused person
is entitled, under grand jury procedure, to seek
Mr. Velde. Well, now, just a minute. You are not accused of any-
thing. You were brought here this morning to give some information
to this committee relative to subversive activities in the United States.
That is our duty — that is our function — to investigate and find out
facts relative to subversive activities in this country.
I just wonder if you are familiar with the report of the Subversive
Activities Control Board which was issued yesterday.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I read
Mr. Clardy. You are nodding your head. You mean yes?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Yes ; I read the report in the newspapers.
Mr. Velde. And isn't it true that the Subversive Activities Control
Board found that the Communist Party of the United States was a
subversive organization ?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Yes; that's what I read, sir.
Mr. Velde. Do you believe that the Communist Party of the United
States is a subversive organization •
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Velde (continuing). Designed to overthrow our form of
government ?
Mr. PoLUMBAuivr. Well, again, sir; you are infringing on the area
of my own opinions and belief, and I would refuse to answer that
question
Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman
Mr. Polumbaum (continuing). On the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Clardy (continuing). I didn't hear you then. Were you de-
clining to answer?
It is difficult to hear you.
Mr. Polumbaum. Yes, on the grounds this committee was infring-
ing on my own political beliefs, and on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Velde. You still believe that the American Communist Party
is a political organization ?
Mr. PoLUisiBAUM. I said I refuse to answer any — I refuse to answer
this question, and your second question, and any questions, political
questions, of that nature on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Clardy. Any question dealing w^th the Communist threat to
this Nation you will decline to answer, then ; is that what we are to
understand?
JNIr. Polumbaum. No ; I will decline to answer any question which
probes into my political beliefs.
994 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Clardt. Well, asking you whether you agree with the Sub-
versive Activities Control Board's finding in your opinion is probing
into your beliefs, then ?
Mr. FoLUMBAUM. Yes; you're asking my opinion — a political
opinion.
Mr. Clardt. Do you understand you are thereby implying to this
cominittee that you may be a Communist or you approve of the Com-
munist doctrine when you refuse to take a stand ?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. No, sir.
Mr. Clardy. Don't you see that ?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. No, sir. I believe the implications — that the im-
plications this committee is trying to make
Mr. Walter. May I interrupt right at this point?
This is not an implication. We believe — as a matter of fact, we
know — that you at some time or another were a Communist.
Now, you have an opportunity to tell us things we want to know — —
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Walter (continuing) . About the activities of Communists with
whom you were associated.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. I have been informed I haven't been accused of
anything. Now you are accusing me of something.
Mr. Walter. Well, all right, if the shoe fits
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Walter (continuing) . You say I am accusing you. All right,
let's say that.
Mr. Clardy. You, sir, are
Mr. Walter. I say you have been a Communist.
Mr. Polumbaum. You are making an accusation ?
Mr. Walter. Yes.
Mr. Polumbaum. If you have any information
IMr. Walter. Are you
Mr. Polumbaum (continuing). Or evidence that I have engaged in
any illegal conspiracy or any illegal activities, or committed any
illegal act — and you cannot have such evidence because I have never
committed any illegal activities — 3'ou should take this evidence to the
proper authorities and you should have me prosecuted and give me
a day in court under due process.
Mr. Walter. Well, that may follow
Mr. Polumbaum. You have not •
Mr. Walter (continuing). But what we are interested in now is
ascertaining to what extent you and your associates made any progress
at all in this international conspiracy to overthrow our form of gov-
ernment. That is what we are interested in for the moment, and we
hope that you will cooperate with us.
Mr. Polumbaum. This committee is attempting to imply that by
invoking my constitutional rights — and specifically under the fifth
amendment — that that itself is an admission of a crime ; but the fifth
amendment and the other rights guaranteed in the Constitution are
designed to protect people like myself from just such political — politi-
cal investigations.
Mr. Walter. Do you think what I stated to you was an implication?
Am I implying you are a Communist when I say to you I know you
have been one ?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 995
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. You are making an accusation.
Mr. Walter. I am not implying. You just said I was implying
something. I am not implying anything.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Walter (continuing) , I am stating to you that I know you have
been a member of the Communist Party.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Walter (continuing). That is no implication.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Velde. Mr. Witness, I believe that you said you were employed
by the United Press at the present time as a script writer; is that
right i
Mr. Polumbaum. That's correct.
Mr. Velde. I would like to read into the record a memorandum from
the United Press Associations as follows :
Our records show that Theodore S. Polumbaum is 28 years old. He became
an employee of the United Press in 1952 with United Press' acquisition of Acme
News Pictures and since that time has served as a picture caption writer and
darkroom technician in the Boston bureau. Acme's records show that he was
hired by Acme in July 1950, and assigned to its Boston picture bureau. His
application form says that he was gradauted from Yale in 1948. Before joining
Acme he worked for a year and a half as a reporter and deskman on the York
(Pa.) Gazette.
United Peess Associations.
Mr. Clardt. Is that a correct recitation ?
]Mr. Polumbaum. The description of my job is not quite correct.
Mr. Clardt. Is it too flattering or does it understate '?
Mr. Polumbaum. No ; it doesn't mention I have been writing tele-
vision scripts.
Mr. Velde. Well, would you clarify it, then, Mr. Witness?
Mr. Polumbaum. Well, I have been a television script writer both
for Acme News Pictures and for United Press. That has been my
mam job. I have performed other duties, as a darkroom assistant,
as caption writer for United Press, but the fact, script writing, is not
mentioned — and it is a fact, sir
Mr. Walter. How long have you been a script writer?
Mr. PoLuiMBAUM. Since 1950, when I became associated with Acme
News Pictures.
Mr. Clardy. What kind of scripts ?
Mr. Polumbaum. News scripts for television news.
Mr. Clardy. Oh, it isn't in the form of a play or playlet?
Mr. Polumbaum. No; nonfiction.
Mr. Clardy. You are not a humorous writer; you are just writing
straight news?
Mr. Polumbaum. That's right.
Mr. Clardy. Maj^ I ask him one more question ?
Mr. Velde. Proceed.
Mr. Clardy. Is it your assumption, at the bottom of your relying
on the fifth amendment, then, an admission of membership in the
Communist Party would amount to admitting that you were guilty of
some crime of some sort ?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. PolujMbaum. Are you asking me why I am using the fifth
amendment ?
996 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Clardy. I am not asking you why anything. I am asking you
just as I worded my question.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Would you repeat the question, please?
Mr. Clardy. Will you read the question to him, Mr. Reporter?
(The reporter read the question as follows:)
Is it your assumption, at the bottom of your relying on the fifth amendment,
then, an admission of membership in the Communist Party would amount to ad-
mitting that you were guilty of some crime of some sort?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. I am not required to make any assumptions.
Mr. Clardy. I can't hear you.
Mr. Polumbaum. I believe I am not required to make any assump-
tions in my use of the fifth amendment. I simply state I will not
answer questions of the type the committee has put forward to me
under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Clardy. You know
Mr. Polumbaum. I am standing
Mr. Clardy. You know that the Communist Part has not as yet
been outlawed and is, therefore a legal party
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Clardy. In the United States.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. I believe it's outlawed in Massachusetts.
Mr. Clardy. Very well. Then, how is it possible for an admission
of membership in the Communist Party liable to make you subject to
prosecution of some sort ? You have any explanation ?
Mr, Polumbaum. I don't believe I have to explain my grounds for
invoking
Mr. Clardy. I didn't ask you-
Mr. Polumbaum (continuing). Constitutional rights.
Mr. Clardy (continuing). Whether you had to. I asked you
whether you had such.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Clardy. Did you answer?
Mr. Polumbaum. Well, to ask me to explain why I will not be a
witness against myself is — is to destroy my right not to be a witness
against myself.
Mr. Clardy. I didn't ask you that at all.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever attend Marxist lectures at Communist
Party headquarters in New Haven, Conn.?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. That is a question which is similar to the others
I have been asked. An accusation is implied there, and I repeat that
I will stand on my previous grounds and not answer these questions.
Mr. KuNziG. In other words
Mr. Velde. Mr. Witness, may it be understood that any accusation
that is made against you is not in the form of an indictment. This is
not a court of law. It is not in the form of an indictment which might
tend to incriminate you.
Is that understood by you?
Mr. Polumbaum. Yes; I realize that — that the committee has no
grounds for bringing criminal action against me
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 997
Mr. Velde. That is fine.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM (continuing). But v.hat the committee is doing is
trying me by publicity and endangering my employment,
Mr. Velde. I assure you the committee has no interest at all in your
employment. We are out to determine, to ascertain facts relative to
subversive activities in this country ; and I believe — of course, I cannot
speak for United Press — if you would furnish us the information that
we are asking that probably your job would be a lot more safe than
it is at the present time
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Well, you are asking me
Mr. Velde (continuing). In the testimony.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. You are asking me, then, to waive my rights.
Mr. Walter. Well, now, just let me interrupt you at that point.
You talk about the activities of this committee endangering your posi-
tion. Well, the fact of the matter is you now have a great opportunity
to disprove allegations heretofore made about you.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. Are you
Mr. Walter. I mean before you came before this committee and
testified, as you have now testified, this committee had testimony,
sworn testimony, of witnesses that appeared before it of your activities
in the Communist Party. So, you see, this committee has nothing to
do with placing your position in jeopardy, if that is the fact.
Mr. Polumbaum. By the very act of making public these charges
against me in the atmosphere of today, in the atmosphere of hysteria
and fear, in light of the political beliefs or independent political views
which I hold, this committee has tended to damage my reputation and
endanger my employment.
Mr. Walter. Now, you talk about independent political views. Is
that the reason why these Communists in New York were sent to the
penitentiary, because they had independent political views?
Mr. Polumbaum. I can't speak for the
Mr. Walter. All right.
Mr. Polumbaum. I can't give you the reasons why the Communists
w ere sent
Mr. ScHERER. Well, isn't it a fact that the Communist conspiracy is
jeopardizing the jobs and the life of all of us in this country ?
Mr. Polumbaum. You speak of the conspiracy. Do you imply
that I — do you charge me, accuse me, of engaging in illegal activi-
ties
Mr. ScHERER. No ; I didn't say
Mr. Polumbaum (continuing). Or illegal conspiracy?
Mr. ScHERER (continuing). Anything about that.
You, Mr. Witness, said asking you questions about your Communist
affiliations was jeopardizing your employment.
Mr. Polutnibaum. What this committee is doing, I believe, is acting
under a presumption of guilt, which is contrary to our traditions.
Mr. ScHERER. It is no longer a presumption of guilt
Mr. Clardy. Witness
Mr. ScHERER (continuing). As far as membership in the party is
concerned.
Mr. Clardy. Witness, when the testimony is
Mr. Velde. Just a minute, Mr. Clardy.
998 COMIVIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Clardy. Oh, I thought Mr. Scherer was through.
I beg your pardon.
Mr. Scherer. I just said it is no longer a presumption of guilt as far
as membership in the party is concerned.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. AVell, Mr. Walter
Mr. Scherer. As Mr. Walter said, the testimony is conclusive that
you were a member of the party.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Well, Mr. Walter-
Mr. Scherer. In testimony before this committee
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Mr. Walter has said
Mr. Scherer (continuing). That is no longer a presumption as
far as we are concerned.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM (continuing). "You have the opportunity to clear
yourself before this committee." That is the same as saying, I be-
lieve, that this committee considers you guilty.
Mr. Walter. Yes; we do. At least I do.
Mr. Polumbaum. In other words
Mr. Walter. There has been no denial of the sworn testimony ad-
duced heretofore and, therefore, I am left with no other conclusion,
you see.
Mr. Polumbaum. Is this committee denying me the right to cross-
examine my accusers?
Mr. Walter. Well, we are proceeding under the rules of the House
and under the rules of the House there is no provision made for wit-
nesses to interrogate
Mr. Polumbaum. Is this a denial
Mr. Walter (continuing). Other witnesses.
Mr. Polumbaum. Isn't this a denial of due process and a denial of
trial, when an accusation is made under the sixth amendment?
Mr. Clardy. Witness, is giving you an opportunity, in open hearing,
to deny any possible connection with the Communist conspiracy in-
fringing upon your rights and doing you damage?
Should we, if we have information about anybody that has been
made public, deny that person an opportunity, as we are giving you,
to appear here and state the facts as he knows about them?
Mr. Polumbaum. I don't believe this committee has the right to
investigate political opinions and associations.
Mr. Clardy. In other words, we have no right or duty to investigate
the Communist conspiracy ; is that your position ?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. I believe that this committee — if this committee
has any evidence of illegal activities or illegal conspiracy, it is cer-
tainly within its right to bring this evidence before the proper authori-
ties and have any persons so charged brouglit into court.
Mr. Clardy. That is what we are doing. We are bringing it to the
attention of the American people — the real jury that will convict
those of you that may be engaged in that conspiracy.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. In other words, you are admitting this is trial by
publicity ?
Mr. Clardy. No, sir; this, sir, is giving the people an opportunity
to see how this apparatus works.
Mr. Polumbaum. I believe
Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 999
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Polumbaum, while at Yale were you acquainted
with a medical student by the name of Joseph Cort — C-o-r-t ?
Mr. Polumbaum. Is this question relevant to the business of the
committee ?
Mr. KuNziG. This question is most relevant, Mr. Chairman, and I
ask the witness be directed to answer.
Mr. Clardy. Would you repeat it ?
Mr. Velde. I am sorry.
Will you repeat the question ?
Mr. KuNziG. The question is : While at Yale were you acquainted
with a medical student by the name of Joseph Cort — C-o-r-t ?
Mr. Velde. And what was the witness' answer ?
Mr. Polumbaum. I asked : Is this relevant to the — to the business
of the committee, and how is it relevant — in what way ?
Mr. KuNziG. And I requested then that the witness be directed to
answer the question.
Mr. Velde. Yes. The committee's counsel is asking you some very
simple questions
Mr. Polumbaum. Well, I'm not
Mr. Velde (continuing). To try to find out facts relative to sub-
versive activities. This question, in my opinion, is a proper question.
It is a simple question, and in line with the duties imposed by the
House of Representatives on this committee; and so I direct you to
answer that question.
Mr. Polumbaum. Well, I will not answer the question on the
grounds I have previously stated. I will not discuss my — I will not
put the finger on myself or other persons before this committee.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Joseph Cort to be a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Polumbaum. That is a similar question, sir.
Mr. KuNziG. Just
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. I wdll stand on the rights — on the grounds — I have
previously stated.
Mr. KuNziG. We will understand this, as I think the chairman has
already indicated — that when you say "I refuse to answer" from now
on you are standing on the grounds you have previously stated.
Mr. PoLUiviBAUM. But that doesn't preclude me from making state-
ments and answering the question in my own way, does it?
Mr. KuNziG. If you wish to answer the question, then
Mr. Polumbaum. Will the refusal to state my grounds
Mr. Velde. Well, Mr. Witness, let me advise you of this : If you will
answer the question "yes" or "no," or give a real answer to the question,
then the committee would allow you to explain your answer; but a
refusal to answer will not permit you to make a legal harangue
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Velde (continuing) . Or to heap more insults on this committee.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. KuNziG, Mr. Polumbaum, you said a moment ago in your testi-
mony that you would testify freely with regard to any wrongdoing
that you knew of and that you would testify before this committee on
any official acts of wrongdoing.
Mr. Polumbaum. Any illegal
Mr. KuNziG. Any illegal acts.
1000 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
You apparently, then, don't consider activity within the Communist
Party of any of your associates or of yourself to be a wrongdoing?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I would simply state that I am not aware of any,
and any questions brought up by this committee of any illegal acts
committed by anyone
Mr. KuNziG. In your opinion, any activity within the Communist
Party, or membership in the Communist Party, is not a wrongdoing
or is not against the best interests of this country ?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. I believe that in asking that question the com-
mittee is asking me to give a political opinion.
Mr. KuNziG. And you refuse to answer it?
Mr. Polumbaum, I refuse to answer.
Mr. KuNziG. I understand.
Now, did you know a William Kerner — K-e-r-n-e-r — to be a member
of the Communist Party in your group at Yale ?
Mr. Polumbaum. I repeat — I will not bear witness against myself
or anyone else.
Mr. KuNziG. You refuse to answer ?
Mr. Polumbaum. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know Arthur Levy — L-e-v-y — to be a member
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Polumbaum. I believe the committee is just attempting to
harass me. You know what the answers to these questions are going
to be.
Is this necessary — to go through a whole list — or is it for the pur-
pose of the record that the committee is attempting to point out that
Ted Polumbaum is standing on the fifth amendment and this is —
this is not his right ?
Are you attempting to belittle this right by repetitiously putting
forth these questions ?
Mr. Velde. May I again remind you, Mr. Witness, that you were
called to the committee by subpena
Mr. Polumbaum. Yes, sir.
Mr. Velde (continuing). Of a committee of Congress, duly consti-
tuted committee — and that we have some questions to ask you rela-
tive to subversive activities, and we are not going to listen to ques-
tions from you. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. You refuse to answer the last question ?
Mr. Polumbaum. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. While a student at Yale, did you know Daniel Fine —
Dr. Fine — who testified before this committee a few days ago?
Mr. Polumbaum. I will refuse to answer that question and all
similar questions, and the committee will save itself time if it doeS'
not ask them.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Ben Dontzin — D-o-n-t-z-i-n ?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. I will not be an informer against anyone.
Mr. Velde. Is that your answer that you stand on ?
M*". Polumbaum. I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know
Mr. Velde. It is understood it is on the-
Mr. Polumbaum. On previous grounds.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1001
Mr. Veld;e (continuing). Grounds of the fifth amendment and all
the protection afforded you in the Constitution ?
(No response.)
Mr. ScHERER. Now, Mr. Chairman
Mr. Velde. Just a minute.
You nodded your head. Will you answer, please ?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Yes.
Mr. Velde. Proceed.
Mr. ScHERER. I understand it is the right of counsel to confer and
advise his client, but it is not the right of counsel to say to him to testi-
fy "I'll not be an informer against anyone." That isn't the duty of
counsel before this committee.
Now, I saw counsel tell him to give that answer.
Mr. Shubow. Now, Mr. Congressman, counsel will have to do his
duty as he sees fit. You are a Congressman. You do your duty as
you see fit, and I will make a conscientious effort to do my duty as I
see fit by way of protecting the rights of my client.
Mr. ScHERER. Yes, but you don't
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, you have a right to confer with your wit-
ness, to advise him, as to his constitutional rights.
Mr. Shubow. Yes ; I vmderstand, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde, Yes.
Mr. Clardy. But that is all.
That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuxziG. Did you hold membership in the John Reed Club at
the same time as William Rubinstein — R-u-b-i-n-s-t-e-i-n?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I will not answer that question on the grounds
I have previously stated.
Mr. KuNziG. Wliile a student at Yale, did you know Harold T.
Woerner — ^W-o-e-r-n-e-r ?
Mr, PoLUMBAUM. I will not answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you hold membership in the Communist Party
with Jerry Brown — B-r-o-w-n?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I will not answer that question on the same
grounds,
Mr. KuNziG, Mr, Polumbaum, while you were a student at Yale,
did you ever participate in door-to-door or neighborhood campaigns
for the sale of the Daily and Sunday Worker?
Mr, Polumbaum, I will not answer that question on the grounds
that it involves political activity, and I will not answer any questions
involving political activity on the grounds I have previously stated.
Mr, KuJsziG, Isn't it a fact, Mr, Polumbaum, that while at Yale
you worked for the Communist Party distributing literature, Com-
munist Party literature, in the industrial plants and the factories in
the New Haven area ?
Mr, Polumbaum. These are all similar questions, Mr. Chairman
Mr. KuNzio, I request that
Mr, Polumbaum ( continuing) And you know what m}^ answer is.
Mr. KuNziG (continuing) The witness be required to answer the
question, Mr, Chairman,
Mr, Velde, Yes, That is a very simple question. You can answer
it "Yes'' or "No," or refuse to answer it, and you are so directed.
1002 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Whv is the committee asking me all these similar
questions, to wliich it knows how I will answer ?
It knows the answer, and I have stated my grounds.
Now, I have refused to answer these other questions, and I refuse
to answer this one.
Mr. Velde. I again tell you, Mr. Witness, you were called here to
answer questions and not to ask them.
Now, you may answer or refuse to answer, and further than that
we are not going to listen to a lot of harangue.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I will refuse to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Polumbaum, this committee's investigation in the
New Haven area produced evidence which strongly points to domi-
nation and control of the Young Progressives and the Progressive
Citizens of America in New Haven by individuals who were members
of the Communist Party. Were you active among the Young Pro-
gressives when you were at New Haven?
Mr. Polumbaum. I will not answer that question because it deals
with my political affiliations, and I have already stated my grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Were you at any time elected to or appointed to the
Connecticut State Youth Council of the Communist Party?
Mr. Polumbaum. I will not answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. KuNZiG. Did you attend the convention of the Connecticut
State Communist Party held at 222 LaFayette Street, New Haven,
Conn., on July 16, 17, and 18 ?
Mr. Polumbaum. I will not answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. While at Yale, were you acquainted with Paul R.
Zilsel — Z-i-l-s-e-1 — who is a graduate student in physics?
Mr. Polumbaum. I will not answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Were you affiliated with any Communist Party group
while 3^ou worked in York, Pa.?
Mr. Polumbaum. The committee knows I will not answer that
question on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mr. Polumbaum, I haA^e here a document marked
"Polumbaum Exhibit No. 1" for identification, entitled "Application
for Employment by Theodore S. Polumbaum, United Press Asso-
ciation." It is signed on the back "Theodore S. Polumbaum."
I hand you this document and ask you whether the signature at the
bottom is your signature.
The question is whether the signature is your signature.
Mr. Polumbaum. That's my signature.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, I will read for the record, with your permission,
Mr. Chairman, the statement which was signed here.
This document was subpenaed from the United Press, from its
official files.
Mr. Polumbaum is, of course, as has already been testified, presently
employed by the United Press.
May I have the permission of the committee to read pertinent
portions of this document into the record?
Mr. Velde. Yes; proceed.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1003
Mr. KuNziG. On page 4, the back page of the document, under the
heading of "Organizations" the following appears :
Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party, any Communist-front
organization, the German-American Bund, or any other organization which has
been designated by the Attorney General of the United States as being subversive?
Then the word "No" appears typed in there.
And then it says :
If so, explain.
Clubs, fraternities, associations, and societies.
And typed in the document is American Newspaper Guild ; B'nai
B'rith.
Then there appears:
Certification — the statements contained herein are true, and if found sub-
sequently to be incorrect I agree to resign immediately upon request without
making any protest or claim.
Then it is signed "Theodore S. Polumbaum."
Now, is it correct, Mr. Polumbaum, that you signed this prior to
your present employment with the United Press ?
Mr. Polumbaum. That was some time during that employment.
]\Ir. KuNziG. Some time during the employment. At the beginning,
I presume, of the employment — toward the beginning ?
Mr. Polumbaum. When Acme Newspictures was taken over by
United Press.
Mr. KuNziCx. Now, will you
Mr. Velde. I am sorry. I didn't get that last answer.
Mr. Polumbaum. When — I signed that some time after Acme News-
pictures was absorbed by the United Press.
Mr. KuNziG. But you signed it upon the request of United Press?
Mr. Polumbaum. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, will you reaffirm under oath —
I might add, Mr. Chairman, that this statement was not under
oath.
Will you reaffirm here before this committee, under oath, the
contents of this statement — namely, that you have never been a mem-
ber of any Communist Party or a Communist- front organization or
any organization designated by the Attorney General of the United
States as being subversive ?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. PoLUMBALiM. You are asking me to answer in a different form
the same question about Communist Party affiliation which I refused
to answer, and I will refuse to answer that question on the grounds
Mr. KuNziG. The same grounds ?
Mr. Polumbaum (continuing). The grounds I previously stated.
Mr. KuNZTG. Well, now in order to avoid confusion, I will put it
to you exactly in the same form which you have already signed, I
presume in good faith, when you became employed by the United
Press : Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party, any
Communist-front organization, the German-American Bund, or any
other organization which has been designated by the Attorney General
of the United States as being subversive? .
That is the question in the exact form as put to you by the United
Press.
30172— 53— pt. 3 -3
1004 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. PoLUMBAUiM. I will refuse to answer that question before the
committee, as I have refused to answer previous questions of affilia-
tion, on the grounds I have stated.
Mr. KuNziG. x\re you refusing to answer the question in 1953
because you are now under oath, where you were perfectly willing to
answer it when you originally signed it
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. KuNziG (continuing). When you were not under oath?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
jNIr. Polumbaum. My grounds for refusal is that I was not — will
not bear witness against myself under the fifth amendment, and that
under the first amendment the committee has no right to inquire into
mv political beliefs.
]SIr. KuNziG. Well, were you acting in good faith, then, Mr. Polum-
baum, when you accepted employment with a distinguished, outstand-
ing organization such as the United Press, and answered this question
in the fashion which you did?
Mv. Polumbaum. Excuse me.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with ]Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. I always act in good faith.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you act in good faith in this instance ?
Mr. Polumbaum. Yes.
Mr. KuNZiG. But you refuse to answer today under oath
(At this point Mr. Polumbaiun conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. KuNziG (continuing). The same question.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. I — I refused to answer the same question when
it was earlier given to me — not exactly the same words, but it was a
question of political affiliation — and I refuse to answer now on the
same grounds.
Mr. KuNziG. In other words, when asked not under oath, you will
answer no ; but when asked under oath, where there might be a pos-
sibility of perjury
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. KuNziG (continuing). Charges later brought, you refused to
answer on the ground of the fifth amendment?
Mr. Polumbaum. I am refusing to answer now on the grounds of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. KuNZiG. Was the statement true when you made it originally,
when you were first employed by the United Press?
Mr.' Polumbaum. That is asking me the same question about polit-
ical affiliation.
Mr. KuNziG. Was it true?
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. You are asking me the same question.
Mr. KuNziG. Are you refusing to answer?
Mr. Polumbaum. And I am refusing to answer on the same grounds.
Mr, ScHERER. Well; when the United Press asked you those ques-
tions in the questionnaire, they were asking you questions at that time
with reference to your political beliefs, were they not?
Mr. Polumbaum. The United Press is not a congressional investi-
gating committee.
Mr. ScHERER. I understand that, but that wasn't my question. _My
question was if, when this question was asked you in the question-
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1005
naire by United Press, that wasn't a question with reference to your
political beliefs.
(At this point INIr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. That was a question between my employer and
myself.
Mr. ScHERER. This is between your Government and yourself — this
question that is being asked.
]\Ir. Polumbaum. This is a question between the committee, which is
attempting to
Mr. ScHERER. Right.
]\fr. Polumbaum (continuing). Infringe on my rights under the
first and fifth amendments.
Mr. ScHERER. Was United Press attempting to infringe upon your
rights when they wanted to know
Mr. Polumbaum. I haven't
Mr. ScHERER (continuing). Whether or not you were a member of
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Polujvibaum. The United Press was not attempting to infringe
on my rights.
Mr. ScHERER. They were not attempting, but that was a question
with reference to your political beliefs; wasn't it?
Mr. Polumbaum. I will speak to my associates. I will tell my politi-
cal beliefs to my associ;ites, to my friend, and my family ; but I will
not — that is not interfering with my rights. I will do that willingly,
and I waive no rights to do that ; but in order to answer such questions
before this committee, I would have to waive my rights.
Mr. ScHERER. You didn't feel that answering this question as far
as United Press was concerned
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. ScHERER (continuing). Was interf erring with your political
rights; did you?
Mr. Polumbaum. I stated to you the United Press was not inter-
ested in violating my political rights and they were not interested in
making me an inforjner, and they were not investigating political
activities.
Mr. ScHERER. You realize if you had answered that question "YeSy
United Press wouldn't have employed you, don't you ?
Mr. Polumbaum. Probably that's correct.
Mr. SciiERER. Probably that's correct.
Mr. Clardy. That is why you answered "No," isn't it ?
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman
Mr. Clardt. Just a minute.
Mr. KuNziG. Oh, I am sorry. I am very sorry, sir.
Mr. Clardy. I asked if that wasn't why he answered the ques-
tion
Mr. Poluivibaum. I answered that question in a matter of good faith,
in relations between my employer and myself.
Mr. Velde. Do you have anything further, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I should like at this time to offer in
evidence Polumbaum Exhibit No. 1, which has been marked for iden-
tification as Polumbaum Exhibit No. 1.
Mr. Velde. It will be admitted into evidence.
1006 COIVDMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
(The United Press Associations' application for employment by
Theodore S. Polumbaum was received in evidence as Polumbaum Ex-
hibit No. 1.)
Mr. KuNziG. I have no further qeustions to ask this witness, sir.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy.
Mr. Clardy. No questions.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer.
(No response.)
Mr. Walter. No.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. I think I do, Mr. Chairman.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. PoLUiviBAUM. Mr. Chairman, I have a brief written statement.
Mr. Velde. You say you have some questions ?
Mr. Palumbaum. I would like to put it into the record.
Mr. Velde. Just a minute. Mr. Doyle has some questions.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask you this question, please, young man : I notice
you are about 31 years of age
Mr. Polumbaum. Twenty-eight.
Mr. Doyle. And I notice that you manifestly came to this com-
mittee this morning previously well prepared and your mind firmly
made up as to what you would answer and the position you would take.
In asking you this question, I am not criticizing you. I want you to
believe me. I am not criticizing the position jou took — neither am I
complimenting it, nor as man to man saying I think you took the right
position. That is your personal matter.
But I wrote down here your language which I want to ask you
about. You said : "To answer that question would be to cooperate with
this committee."
You said : "This committee has no right to ask me these questions."
Now, on that matter only I think you, as a young man, ought to
have it impressed upon you at this time — I am trying to do it helpfully
to you, as a young American citizen — that under Public Law 601, back
in 1945 your Congress, your own Congress, your own United States
Congress, authorized this committee and delegated to this committee
an investigation of subversive activities in your country, the United
States of America.
Now, our assignment, therefore, is to investigate subversive activi-
ties wherever found — whether in the Communist Party or any other
totalitarian outfit.
Noticing that you did come apparently determined to not cooperate
with this committee on anything
Mr. Polumbaum. That's not true, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Well, then — all right — not to cooperate with this com-
mittee on investigating the Communist Party.
Mr. Polumbaum. In prying into my political beliefs and associa-
tions, sir.
Mr. Doyle. I am not asking you now as to your political associa-
tions and beliefs. I am not going to ask you in this question anything
about the Communist Party.
I am trying to see if I can get a common basis with you, as a young
American, to see if I can get your help, to see if you can help this
committee, only in the field of subversive activities that may exist in
this Nation.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1007
Now, that is all I am going to ask you about.
Are you aware of any group in this Nation which, in your judg-
ment, is functioning in the area of subversive activities in this
Nation ?
Do you understand my question ?
Mr. PoLTHviBAUM. Yes.
Mr. DoTLE. Now, I am asking you, as one Member of your Con-
gress, who was officially assigned to do this committee work, that
frank question, as an American man to an American man.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I can answer it this way, sir : That if I knew of
any illegal conspiratorial activities — activities of espionage or trai-
torous activities — punishable under the law — I would give such testi-
mony to the proper authorities •
Mr. Doyle. Well
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. But I believe in — in stating that it is investigating
subversive activities this committee has infringed upon the rights of
individuals to have their own political beliefs, their own private po-
litical beliefs, and associations, and not to reveal these political beliefs
and associations.
Mr. Doyle. Well, Now, let me ask you this.
Let me just take 1 minute more, Mr. Chairman.
I noticed — I couldn't help but notice — that you didn't answer my
question. I asked you as to subversive activities. I didn't ask you
about any illegal conspiracy.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I mean
Mr. Doyle. Just 1 minute before you answer this again.
I am using the exact language of Public Law 601 — and that is the
authority under which we are assigned to investigate.
Now, are you aware of any group in this country that is subversive
in its objectives and intent?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I have
Mr. Doyle. If you are, will you help
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I have
Mr. Doyle (continuing). Us by telling us what group it is?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I have — to my knowledge, I have no knowledge,
through my associations and through my activities, of any group of
persons who are engaged in illegal activities.
Mr. Doyle. No; I am not asking you about illegal activities.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Are you asking me
Mr. Doyle. I am asking you about subversive activities.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Doyle (continuing). That is the language
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. What do you mean by subversive activities ?
Mr. Doyle. Sir ?
Mr. Polumbaum. "Wliat do you mean by subversive activities ?
Mr. Doyle. Oh, I think you and I would agree on a definition — ^to
destroy, to dissolve. That is the general meaning of subversive.
Mr. Polumbaum. Well, wouldn't subversive mean that such per-
sons are — or organizations are — -punishable and can be prosecuted
under the laws against espionage and treason, and so on ?
Mr. Doyle. I am not drawing
'■to
Mr. Polumbaum. And I don't
Mr. Doyle. I am not drawing any legal conclusions.
1008 COJVIMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I believe the heritage of this country is complete
freedom of political thought, to dissent way over to the wide left, and
what this connnittee might consider subversive, or even illegal — it
is just a question of this commitee's disagreeing, disapproving of
these activities.
Mr. Doyle. No; not at all — and I just wanted to get to that point
with you, because I assumed from your very positive, emphatic state-
ment that that was your belief.
Now, what I would like to do at this time, if I may, in just one word,
is to disabuse your mind, as far as I can, if I can, of your conclusion.
I think, young man, you are testifying before this committee under
an erroneous premise. This committee is not interested in destroying
any other person's political belief, nor are we interested in punishing
or having punished any person for political beliefs.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I think
Mr. Doyle. I agree with you, or— may I state it more emphati-
cally than you did — I think that America is great in no small measure
because we* do have, and in our history have had, people who dissented.
]Mr. SnuBOAV. Very good. Congressman.
Mr. Doyle. I will agree with you, and I think that is the strength
of our Nation in no small way; but when we come to the point of
subversive organizations, or people who are subversive, those who
would destroy the very constitutional premises of our own Govern-
ment, then I, as one of your Congressmen, because I am your Con-
gressman—I am a United States Congressman— don't think any_ per-
son in America should have the freedom to go to the extent of actively
participating in what you call conspiratorial activities.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I agree with you, sir. I think that the laws of
this land protect the Government
Mr. Doyle. All right, now
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. From illegal conspiracy.
Mr. Doyle. Our courts have defined, as I know you well know —
I can tell it from the language you have used; I can see you are well
informed, and I want to compliment you on informing yourself be-
cause you could be very helpful to your own Congress and your own
Government in the field of helping your own Government uncover
people who would destroy our constitutional basis of Government.
Now, those are the people we are after. We are not after uncov-
ering people who merely dissent, unless their dissent goes to the point
of forceful destruction.
Now, can you help us with that statement by me
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Well
Mr. Doyle (continuing). In the field of subversive groups? Do
you know of any?
INfr. PoLUMBAUM. I know of no groups.
Mr, Doyle. Do you know of any individuals •
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Or
Mr. Doyle (continuing). Wliom you consider as dangerous?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. Or, to my knowledge, I know of no groups of
individuals who are engaged in any activities for the illegal over-
throw or destruction of the institutions of this country: and if I did
I would feel it my duty to inform on these people, but I — T actually
believe that this committee itself is infringing on the Bill of Rights,
is undermining — is undermining the Bill of Rights.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1009
Mr. DoTLE. Well, then, let me ask you this one concluding question :
If you were a member of this committee, assigned to do this job,
which we have been assigned to do under Public. Law 601, you would
sit on this committee and function, wouldn't you, and try to uncover
subversive j^eople and subversive groups ?
Mr. PoLuMBAUM. I would try to get all the information I could
about illegal, treasonable activities, or conspiracies
Mr. Doyle. Well, you know
Mr. PoLuMBAUM (continuing) . Against the institutions of this coun-
try; but I would not — I would not subject innocent people to this sort
of inquisition which damages their reputation and damages their em-
2)loyment.
Mr. Doyle. Well, you would subject people whom we have reason
to believe are able to help us because they have been or were now uiem-
bers of the Communist Party
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. DoYLE (continuing). Which has been defined by tlie Govern-
ment as subversive, wouldn't you ?
Mr. PoLuareAUM. Well, such people — I believe if there is evidence
it should be presented to the proper authorities: tliese people should
be brought before a grand jury, under the procedure
Mr. DoY^LE, But under the law — and this is the last point I want to
make with you, young man — this is one of the proper authorities, the
very connnittee you are talking with now, and that is what I wanted
to make clear with you — that you in a meeting of this committee are
meeting with the duly constituted official authority, constituted by
the United States Government.
Mr. Polumbaum. Well, if this committee has any evidence, it should
go to a grand jury and present this evidence to the grand jury.
Mr. DoYLE. No; we are not a grand jury.
Mr. Polumbaum. It should go
Mr. Doyle. We are trying to uncover whether or not the John Reed
Club, which you had knowledge — I don't know the extent of your
knowledge, but that is what we are asking you to help us with — we
believe from our information, under oath, that the John Reed Club
was a subversive group. We believe also that you were a member of
it.
Now. we are not
Mr. Polumbaum, Well, sir
Mr. Doyle (continuing). You see-
Mr. Polumbaum (continuing). If you have evidence that the John
Reed group is engaged in or has engaged in a conspiracy to under-
mine the institutions of this Government, then if this is not merely
a political question, but a question of legality, a question of — a ques-
tion that can be prosecuted, you should present this evidence to the
proper authorities.
]\ir. Doyle. No; we are not trying to trap anyone, or lay a trap
to prosecute anyone ; but I am asking a question now — and I am not
asking you for a political belief— concerning information that we
have, under oath, that the objectives of the John Reed Club, of which
you had knowledge, were subversive.
Mr. Polumbaum. You mean
Mr. Doyle, Now, then
1010 COMMUNIST METHODS OF ESTFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. PoLUMBAUM (continuing). Can't be prosecuted under the law?
Mr. DoYL?:. I am not saying anything about prosecution.
This is not a court. This is not a jury.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I believe subversive persons and subversive or-
ganizations should be prosecuted if there is evidence to warrant the
prosecution.
Mr. Clardy. But you won't help us do it?
Mr. Doyle. Well, let me finish my question.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I am aware of no illegal consipracies or organ-
izations.
JNIr. Clardy. Not even the Communist Party ?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. If this committee has evidence that the Com-
munist Party has defied laws engaging in an illegal conspiracy to
overtlirow the Government, then this committee should not call on me
but should present this evidence to a grand jury and let the grand
jury call any further witnesses it wants, in secret, so that
Mr. Doyle. Well
INIr. PoLUMBAUM (continuing). So that persons' reputations won't
be, you know, exposed to public
Mr. Doyle. My last question to you is this : As I have stated, we
have under oath evidence, testimony, that hasn't been contradicted,
by the way, that the John Reed group was subversive in its objectives.
Now, we have information also under oath that you were a member
of that group.
Now, I am not saying you were subversive, young man. I am say-
ing that our information is that that group, in its objectives, was
subversive.
I am assuming, for the purposes of this question, that you were a
member of that group. If you were, were the objectives of that group
subversive, when you were in it
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. If the objectives-
Mr. Doyle (continuing) . If you were?
Mr. PoLUMBAUM (continuing). If the objectives — I'll repeat — if the
objectives of the John Reed club, or any other group, were subversive,
in the sense that they violated the laws of our land and violated the
rights — violated the "laws of our land — the Government has a right
to protect itself, and I am sure it will.
Mr. Doyle. Well, then, your answer now helps me to understand the
extent to which you made up your mind you would go when you came
into this room and when you said, "I refuse to cooperate with this
committee," and I regTet it very much, young man, because some young
men about your age gave their lives in the uniform of their
country
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Polumbaum. I was
Mr. Doyle (continuing). To give you the very chance you have —
and I compliment you on the service you also rendered.
Mr. Polumbaum. And I would do it again.
Mr. Doyle. But why, then, won't you help this congressional com-
mittee in uncovering where there are subversive people?
Mr. Polumbaum. Because where this committee asks questions of
political affiliations and asks me to be an informer
Mr. Doyle. I am not asking you anything about your political
affiliations.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION ( EDUCATION ) 1011
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. You have mentioned various organizations.
Mr. Doyle. I am asking you if the objectives of the John Reed
Ckib, in your opinion, were subversive.
(At this point Mr. Pohmibaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
Mr. Doyle (continuing) . You stated you had knowledge of it.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. That— isn't that a question to get me to admit
membership in this group and to reveal my political affilation ?
Mr. Velde. I think that you should answer the question. It is very
simply put and very understandable. There is no reason that you
could possibly incriminate yourself by answering the question of the
gentleman, and I so direct you to answer the question.
Mr. PoLUMBAUM. I refuse
Will you repeat the question, please?
INIr. Doyle. I will ask the reporter to read the question.
(The reporter read the question as follows :)
I am asking you if the objectives of the John Reed Club, in your opinion, were
subversive.
(At this point Mr. Polumbaum conferred with Mr. Shubow.)
JSfr. PoLUMBAUM. To the best of my knowledge, I knew of no or-
ganization, including the John Reed Club, which was engaged in
subversive activities, defining "subversive'' meaning an illegal con-
spiracy to overthrow the institutions of this Government.
Mr. Clardy. That defiinition includes the Communist Party?
Mr. Polumbaum. All.
Mr. Clary. What is that?
Mr. POLUMBAUIM. All.
Mr. Clardy. Then you include it ?
(No response.)
Mr. Velde. Do you have anything further?
Mr. Doyle. Now, may I ask you this question, young man, in
closing — and again I am not going to ask you any more than this one
question. It will help us to understand what knowledge you have in
giving this answer, whether or not it was personal knowledge or
hearsay, whether or not your knowledge is based upon knowledge
gained by you during the time you were a member of the John Reed
Club, if you were.
Now, I have told you frankly we have evidence under oath that you
were and, therefore, I feel this is a fair question and would help us to
understand the extent to which our information is accurate, if we know
the basis on which you testified.
Mr. Polumbaum. You haven't asked the question yet, Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. Yes. That leads me to this question : Was your answer
to my question based upon personal knowledge when — if you w^ere —
you were a member of the John Reed group ?
Mr. Polumbaum. Well, in asking that question, you are asking me
to reveal my political affiliation, and I decline to answer that question
on the grounds I have stated.
Mr. Doyle. In other words, the John Reed group was a political
group, and on that basis you refuse to answer?
Mr. Polumbaum. I refuse to answer on the grounds I have stated.
Mr. Doyle. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Frazier?
Mr. Frazier. No questions.
1012 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Velde. I would like to make a statement for the record, for the
public, and for the press.
We have had a number of witnesses who have stood on their con-
stitutional rights in refusing to answer questions, witnesses who were
engaged in what we believe to be subversive activities in various fields,
or American free institutions, labor, education, and I want to say
that the testimony of this witness this morning should in no way
lead to any conclusion that the Yale University or the United Press
Association is anything more than completely patriotic.
It so happens that this witness was called this morning to testify
relative to subversive activities in the field of education. It was later
discovered that he was presently employed by United Press.
I want to emphasize again that we believe that the Yale University
and all of our educational institutions and that United Press are
entirely patriotic, very worthwhile institutions, performing a great
function in the United States, and a patriotic function, I may add.
Is there any reason why this witness should be continued
Mr. KuNziG. No, sir.
Mr. Velde (continuing). Under subpena ?
Mr. KuNziG. We are through w^ith this witness, as far as I know.
Mr. Velde. The witness is dismissed, and the committee will stand
in recess until 2 : 30.
(Whereupon, at 12 : 47 p. m., the hearing was adjourned until 2 : 30
p. m., the same day.)
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION
(Education— Part 3)
WEDNESDAY, APKIL 22, 1953
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Committee on
Un-American Activities,
Washington., D. G.
Public Hearing
The subcommittee of the Comimittee on Un-American Activities
met, pursuant to recess, at 10: 50 a. m., in the caucus room, room 362,
Old House Office Building, Hon, Harold H. Velde (chairman)
presiding.
Committee members present : Representatives Harold H. Velde
(chairman), Clyde Doyle and James B. Frazier, Jr. (appearance
noted in transcript).
Staff members present : Robert L. Kunzig, counsel ; Frank S. Tav-
enner, Jr., counsel; Louis J. Russell, chief investigator; Raphael I.
Nixon, director of research; and Donald T. Appell, investigator.
Mr. Velde. The committee will come to order.
Let the record show I have appointed a subcommittee of the full
committee consisting of Mr. Doyle of California and the chairman,
Mr. Velde, for the purposes of this hearing.
Mr. Counsel, proceed.
Mr. Kunzig. Professor Martin — William Ted Martin — ^would you
step forward, please, with your counsel?
JNIr. Velde. Would you remain standing and be sworn, please.
In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee, do
you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Dr. Martin. I do.
Mr, Kunzig. Be seated.
Dr. Martin, are you represented by counsel and, if so, will counsel
state his name and address for the record?
Mr. Rand, My name is Stuart C. Rand. I am an attorney at law,
partner in the law firm of Choate, Hall, & Stewart — my first name is
S-t-u-a-r-t, for the record — and my office is at 30 State Street in
Boston.
Mr, Kunzig. Thank you, Mr. Rand.
I believe you have already told me you are before this committee
as a counsel for the first time. As I have alread}^ explained to you,
you may confer at any time, of course, with your client and discuss
matters with him; but it is the custom in the j)rocedure before the
1013
1014 COIVIMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
committee that the attorney not make speeches or comments of his
own before the committee.
Mr. Rand. Thank you, sir.
TESTIMONY OF DR. V/ILLIAM T. MARTIN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, STUART C. RAND
Mr. KuNziG. Professor, would you state your full name and present
address ?
Dr. Martin. William T. Martin, 16 Swan Lane, Lexington, Mass.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you give that lane again?
Dr. Martin. Swan, S-w-a-n.
Mr. KuNziG. What is your present position?
Dr. Martin. Professor of mathematics, Massachusetts Institute of
Technology.
Mr. KuNziG. Are you head of the mathematics department?
Dr. Martin. I am the head of the mathematics department.
Mr. KuNziG. At MIT?
Dr. Martin. At MIT.
Mr. KuNziG. Wlien and where were you born ?
Dr. Martin. Springdale, Ark., June 4, 1911.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you outline for the committee your educational
background, studies, and so forth ?
Dr. Martin. I studied in the public schools of Springdale, Ark.,
received my undergraduate training at the University of Arkansas,
my graduate training at the University of Illinois.
Mr. KuNZiG. What were the years of this various training?
Dr. Martin. The bachelor's degi-ee was received in 1930 ; the mas-
ter's in 1931 ; the doctor's degree in 1934.
Mr. Velde. "\^^lich one from the University of Illinois?
Dr. Martin. The master's and doctor's. 1 was there from 1930
until 1934.
Mr. Velde. It is a good school.
Dr. ]\Iartin. I agree.
Mr. KuNZiG. Would you outline for the committee your occupa-
tional background— your employment?
Dr. Martin. After the doctor's, or before ?
Mr. KuNziG. Well, from the time you left school, let's say.
Dr. Martin. I had 2 years of postdoctoral fellowships at Princeton
and at the Institute for Advanced Study, 1934 to 1936 ; from 1936 to
1943 at MIT, except for one leave, 1 year on leave; from 1943 to
1946 at Syracuse University ; since 1946, MIT.
Mr. KuNziG. When did you become chairman of the mathematics
department at MIT ?
Dr. J^Iartin. 1947.
Mr. KuNziG. 1947 — and you have been so continuously until the
present time ?
Dr. Martin. Except for a year on leave, the last year,
Mr. KiJNziG. I see.
Now, Dr. Martin, have you at any time been a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Dr. IVIartin. Yes ; I have.
Mr. KuNZiG. Would you state when and under what circmnstances
you became a member of the Communist Party ?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF IXFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1015
Dr. Martin. I joined the Communist Party around January 1938,
Avithin a month or — few months either Avay. I don't recall the exact
date.
Mr. KuxziG. When did you leave the party, if you did leave the
party?
Dr. INIartin. I left the party in the summer of 1946.
Mr. KuNziG. Summer of 1946.
Now, what were the reasons that led to your joining the Communist
Party? As an educated man, a mathematician, what led you to be-
come a member of the party ?
Dr. Martin. During the 1930's, I became very much concerned about
the unemployment which existed for many people and 1 was hoping
to do something that would improve the lot of people who didn't have
quite such fortunate circumstances. I was also concerned about
some discrimination which existed at that time, and I thought I would
associate with a group of people who seemed to be interested in talking
about these matters and trying to improve them.
]Mr. KuNziG. More than just talking^— trying to do something about
improving them ?
Dr. ]\Iartin. Trying to do something,
Mr. KuNziG. Since you mentioned discrimination, do you feel today
that the Comnninist Party is attempting to improve problems in the
realm of discrimination?
Dr. Martin. I do not.
Mr. KuNziG. It is probably just the opposite; wouldn't you say?
Dr. Martin. I think so.
Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Martin, has the mathematics department of M. I. T.
engaged in research for the United States Government under contracts
classified as secret or top secret, Avithin your knowledge?
Dr. Martin. Individuals within the department have, I don't
think you would say the department itself has,
Mr.KuNziG. Have you ever acted as a research or principal re-
searcher on contracts for the Government — you, personally ?
Dr. Martin. No.
Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever done any work for the United States
Government or any government?
Dr. Martin. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you tell the committee what that was?
Dr. Martin. I served very briefly as a consultant during the Army
specialized training program, and I served verj^ briefly
Mr. KuNziG. What time ? Give the dates, if you would, please.
Dr. Martin. The dates on that were around 1943 or 1944.
Mr. KuNziG. During the time that you were a member of the
Communist Party?
Dr. ]\[artin. That is correct. And I served very briefly as a mem-
ber of the War Labor Board, public member of the War Labor Board.
Mr. KuNziG. Also during
Mr. Velde. Of the War Labor Board?
Dr. Martin. War Labor Board.
Mr. KuNziG. What period of time was that?
Dr. Martin. Around 1944 or 1945, I believe.
Mr. KuNziG. Also during the time Avhen you were a member of the
party ?
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
1016 COMRIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNziG. Did the Government at that time ask you whether you
were a member of the party, or any official of the Government ask you
whetlier you were a member of the party ?
Pr. Martin. No ; not to my knowledge.
Mr. KuNziG. Was there any questioning or background check to
your knowledge made of you before you received those positions?
Dr. Martin. I'm not certain of that.
Mr. KuNziG. You don't know ?
Dr. Martin. I do not know.
Mr. Velde. If I may interrupt a minute, Mr. Counsel
Mr. KuNziG. Yes, sir.
Mr, Velde. Will you tell us briefly how you happened to become
employed as a public panel member of the War Labor Board? Did
you have special training in labor-management relations?
Dr. Martin. I did not ; and, as I recall, I served only on one hearing
in the entire time.
Mr. Velde. Well, who approached you to join or to become a public
panel member for that purpose ?
Dr. IMartin. I think there were several people from the university
who just received official documents, or official letters, asking if they
would be willing to serve, and I served without compensation for the
one hearing I had.
Mr. Velde. I see.
Proceed.
Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been denied clearance to work on secret
or confidential work for the Government, to your knowledge?
Dr. Martin. No.
Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Martin, in 1951 this committee had as a witness
before it Prof. Dirk J. Struik— that is, D-i-r-k J. S-t-r-u-i-k— who at
the time of his appearance was a professor of matheniatics at MIT.
Dirk Struik refused to answer the committee's questions under the
protection of the fifth amendment, especially those questions relat-
ing, of course, to the membership in the Communist Party.
Now, do you have any knowledge prior to Dirk Struik's appear-
ance before this committee that he was at that time cr any time
affiliated with the Communist Party ?
Dr. Martin. I have information that he was at one time a mem-
ber. I do not know about that time.
Mr. KuNziG. You knew him as a member of the Communist Party ?
Dr. Martin. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. How did you know him as a member of the party ?
Dr. Martin. I attended meetings which he attended.
Mr. KuNziG. Where were those meetings held, Professor ?
Dr. Martin. In people's houses.
Mr. KuNziG. What people's houses ?
Dr. Martin. The people who were members at that time.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you name the names of the people, please, at
whose houses you attended meetings of the Communist Party ?
Dr. Martin. I attended, I think, probably some at Professor Levin-
son, Prof. Norman Levinson, Professor Amdur
Mr. Kunzig. Professor, what was that last name?
Dr. Martin. Professor Amdur.
And possibly — I do not recall whether we met at Professor Struik's
house or not. IT r-" n:\f.\f\. .
COMRIUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1017
Mr. Velde. This was over what period of time, Doctor ?
Dr. Martin. This was in the period around — from the time I
joined, around 1938, up until 1943.
]\lr. KuNziG. Is that Amdur — A-m-d-u-r — Prof. Isadore Amdur?
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. KuNziG. Both Professors Amdur and Struik are still at
MIT
Dr. Martin. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Is that correct ?
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. Kunzig. As a matter of fact, they are here in this room with
you today?
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. Kunzig. Now, let's go back to the time when you first became
a member of the party. To what cell or unit or group did you belong?
Dr. Martin. I belonged to a group which consisted of people at
MIT.
Mr. Kunzig. In other words, you are testifying, then, that there
was a cell or group right at MIT ?
Dr. Martin. Well, there was a group of people who belonged, who
also were at MIT, and met at their houses.
Mr. Kunzig. In teaching capacities at MIT ?
Dr. Martin. That is correct ; yes.
Mr. Kunzig. Now, did you stay a member of that group or did
you join any other group of the Communist Party?
Dr. Martin. I was in other groups from time to time.
Mr. Kunzig. Could you tell us of those other groups? What were
their names, if they had any ?
Dr. Martin. At one time — and I don't recall just when that was,
after, say, 1938 — a larger group got together and met, which consisted
of some people from MIT, I believe some from Harvard.
Mr. Kunzig. A larger group in the Boston area ; is that correct ?
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. Kunzig. Some from MIT, some from Harvard ?
Dr. Martin. That is coiTect.
Mr. Kunzig. What were the names of some of the people with
whom you associated as Comnnmists in that group ?
Dr. Martin. In that gToup, Wendell H. Furry
Mr. Kunzig. Is that the same Wendell H. Furry who testified here
twice a few days ago ?
Dr. Martin. I believe so.
Mr. Kunzig. Professor at Harvard?
Dr. Martin. Professor at Harvard — associate professor at Harvard.
Mr. Kunzig. Do you know him to be a Communist or to have been
a Communist at the time you were ?
Dr. Martin. I know him to have been one back in those days ; yes.
Mr. Kunzig. He was one of the leaders of the group, wasn't he ?
Dr. Martin. I don't recall him being a leader.
Mr. Kunzig. What others besides Dr. Wendell Furry ?
Dr. Martin. I'll have to try to recall a few
Mr. Kunzig. Certainly.
Dr. Martin. Eecall what names I can there.
I do not recall whether I met with Mr. Leo Hurvich or not, but I
have the impression he was a Communist at that time.
1018 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr, KuNziG. Is that the Leo Hurvich that testified here
yesterday
Dr. Maktin. That is correct.
Mr. KuNziG (continuing). Before this committee?
Dr. Martin. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, what other members were there of your first
y group, the MIT group? You mentioned Dr. Dirk Struik, Levin-
son, Anidur.
Dr. Martin. Lawrence Arguimbau.
Mr. KuNziG. Arguimbau?
Dr. IVIartin. I will not try to spell it.
Mr. KuNziG. A-r-g-u-i-m-b-a-u. Is he still a professor at MIT ?
Dr. Martin. I believe he is an associate professor.
Mr. KuNziG. And you knew him as a Communist Party member at
that time you were a member?
Dr. Martin, I did.
Mr. KuNZiG. Dr. Arguimbau, I would like to announce at this time,
was before this committee in executive session within the last 2 days
and will, in all probability, be recalled for further testimony. Now,
did you know an Israel Halj^erin — H-a-1-p-e-r-i-n ?
Dr. Martin. I did.
Mr. KuNZiG. How long did you know Israel Halperin and what
was your association with him ?
Dr. Martin. I knew him first when he was in Princeton, when I
was there, and as a fellow mathematician. I knew him later at
Cambridge when he was a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. KuNziG. And you knew him as a member of the Communist
Party?
Dr. Martin. I knew him as a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. KuNZiG. Now, were there any others in your MIT group, Dr.
Martin ?
Dr. Martin. I believe there was a man named B. E. Blaisdell.
Mr. KuNZiG. How do you spell Blaisdell ?
Dr. Martin, B-l-a-i-s-d-e-1-1,
ISIr. KuNziG. Do you know the present whereabouts of Mr,
Blaisdell?
Dr. Martin. I don't know where he is. He left many years ago —
left Cambridge.
Mr. KuNziG. What was his position at MIT at that time?
Dr. Martin. I think he had a rather minor position that did not
involve teaching.
Mr. KuNZiG. Were there any other members that you recall of
your MIT group ?
Dr. Martin. I believe Dr. A. M. Gelbart— G-e-1-b-a-r-t.
Mr. KuNZiG. Any others?
Dr. Martin. I don't recall others at the moment.
Mr. KuNZiG. Dr. Martin, do you possess any knowledge of the
operation of the Communist Party in the city of Boston as it relates
to professional individuals, such as doctors, lawyers, teachers?
Dr. Maritn. I think not.
Mr. KuNZiG. At the time you were a member, of course, I mean.
Dr. Martin. Oh, at the time I was a member. Well, I've de-
scribed
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1019
Mr. KuNZiG. Could you go into more detail and explain just what
the function of the party was in Boston, what the function of profes-
sionals were within the party ?
Dr. Martin. "Well, the groups which — groups of people whom I
knew were devoting themselves to mainly discussion and to — of these
things which I said led me into the party, and to trying to support
liberal legislation which would further that general end.
Mr. KuxziG. That is your total knowledge of the work of the
Communist Party-
Dr. JVIartix. There was-
Mr. KuNziG (continuing). Among professionals in the Boston area?
Dr. Martin. Well, there was also discussion of organizations which
would work along the same line I mentioned, and there were from
time to time discussions of something like a boycott of Nazi Ger-
many or
Mr, KuNziG. I am glad you mentioned Nazi Germany. Now, I pre-
sume 3-ou detest anj^ such form of totalitarianism as nazism and the
actions of Hitler at the time he was in charge of Germany?
Dr. Martin. I do.
Mr. KuNziG. Then how do you explain your being a member of the
Communist Party during the period of the Nazi-Bussian pact when
Stalin and Hitler were allied ?
You remained a member of the party during that period of time?
Dr. Martin. I did.
IMr. KuNZiG. Could you explain how you were able to do that and
still remain true to what ideals 3^011 may have had with regard to
Dr. Maritn. Well, I didn't feel a very close relationship the whole
period. In fact, it seemed rather confused to me and, as I look right
now, it seems more confused and probablj- somewhat more stupid
that I remained in at that time; but I certainly didn't see a direct
connection there.
Mr. Velde. Well, Doctor, at that time you were aware of the fact
that the American Communist Party was a subsidiary or part and
parcel of tlie Soviet or the great Comintern ?
Dr. Martin. I never thought anything of that sort, Mr. Velde.
Mr. Velde. You didn't ?
Dr. Martin. I did not.
^Ir. Velde. In other words, you thought at that time the American
Communist Party was a political organization, as you have men-
tioned
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. Velde (continuing). Is that it
Dr. Martin. Yes.
Mr. Velde (continuing). To help individuals who were in distress
and to prevent discrimination ?
Dr. IVIartin. That is what I thought.
Mr. Velde. When did you first become aware of the fact that that
was a misconceived notion?
Dr. Martin. Actually somewhat after I left the party, as I began
to read the reports in the newspaper and notice the reports of trials
and various reports by Government bodies. It was fear of activity
which I did not see personally when I was in.
30172— 53— pt. 3-
1020 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Velde. Well, I would like to have you, in line with counsel's
questioning, if you can remember some particular meeting of your
cell that you attended, describe for the committee what took place in
a particular meeting that you might have been interested in.
Dr. Martin. Well, frequently there would be a discussion of some
philosophical topic that— by someone who had read it, and would dis-
cuss, give a little report on it ; and then there might be a discussion
of_if a few people, for instance, had some organizational activity
outside, they might mention what they had been doing, and might
discuss various points of legislation which had been considered, or
something, and just things of that nature.
INlr. Velde. Did you ever discuss the Communist Manifesto or the
history of the Soviet Union ?
Dr. Martin. Those were discussed. I don't know about the latter.
I think the Manifesto was.
Mr. Velde. Did you attend any meetings of your particular cell
during and immediately before the time that Hitler marched on
Stalin, or Germany marclied on the Soviet Union?
Dr. Martin. 1 must have.
Mr. Velde. Do you recall any of the discussions that took place at
that time, immediately before and immediately afterwards?
I think that was 1941, wasn't it?
Mr. KuNzi:>. That is correct.
Mr. Velde. June 1941.
Dr. Martin. Well, certainly before June 1941 there were discus-
sions, hoping that United States would be able to remain at peace
during this period, and I just happened to — during that summer I
was on vacation some time — being after June — and wasn't in on
discussions immediately ; but when I did return, I remember dis-
cussions that it looked as though United States would be brought in-
United States would more or less have to get into it.
Mr. Velde. Was there any urging by the members of your particu-
lar cell after June of 1941 for the United States to get into the war
on the side of Soviet Eussia and other allies?
Dr. Martin. Well, I think certainly a number of people felt that
would be very nice, very good thing, for the United States to do.
Mr. Velde. In other words, did you notice any change in the party
line prior to June of 1941 and afterward? Did you notice a sudden
change in what was being discussed by the members of your group
and the decisions that were made?
Dr. Martin. Well, prior to June 1941, it was very clear that most
of the people felt it would be — would prefer that the United States
try to stay out of the conflict and keep it restricted, and there seemed
to be an increasing awareness that would not be possible ; and in the
later montlis it— I think most people felt that it would have to
eventually come.
Mr. Velde. Yes.
Dr. Martin. It's a very confusing thing.
Mr. Velde. There were a lot of good, patriotic Americans that had
the same ideas; yet, I just wanted to bring that example out
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. Velde (continuing). As a shift in the party line of American
Communist Party as directed by the Soviet Government.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1021
Now, along that line, you were attending meetings in August of
1945, too?
I am speaking of the Duclos letter that was
Dr. Martin. I believe I was around that time.
Mr. Velde. And you became a member in
Mr. Doyle. 1938.
Mr. Velde. 1938.
It was in 1943, wasn't it, when they changed to the Communist
Political Association?
Dr. Martin. I became a member of the Communist Political Asso-
ciation when it was changed.
Mr. Velde. And after VJ-day, 1 believe it was, do you recall any-
thing about the discussion in your group concerning the Duclos letter?
Dr. Martin. There was some discussion at that time. I am not very
clear on the date. Thpre was some discussion of it. I had begun
to lose somewhat my interest by that time, and was not — although I
didn't formally leave for a while.
Mr. Velde. Did any of the membei-s of your particular cell leave
the Communist Political Association at that time?
Dr. Martin. I don't recall anyone.
Mr. Velde. After leaving the Communist Political Association,
you, yourself, rejoined the Communist Party?
Dr. Martin. For a brief time; yes.
Mr. Velde. That would be under the direction of the Duclos letter?
That is what the Duclos letter advocated, you know
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. Velde. That the Communist Political Association again re-
turned to a militant, fighting organization and be called the Commu-
nist Party of America ^r the Communist Party of the United States.
Did you carry a card after the Communist Political Association
was dissolved and returned to the
Dr. Martin. I feel certain — quite certain — I did not.
Mr. Velde. You did not?
Dr. Martin. I feel quite certain I did not, although I considered
myself a member for a short while.
Mr. Velde. I see.
And you say you got out in 1946 ?
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. Velde. What were the circmnstances of your leaving the Com-
munist Party?
Dr. Martin. Well, there weren't any very particular ones. I had,
I say, over a period of time become less and less interested and more
bored with it, and felt that much of certainly the things which I
had gone in did not seem to be — being accomplished, and I felt a
great part of it was boring and parts of it were stupid, plain stupid,
and I just left.
Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. I would like to go back just a bit to completing the
names in your MIT group. You mentioned this Gelbart. Do you
know the present whereabouts of Mr. Gelbart ?
Dr. Martin. Mr. Gelbart is at Syracuse University now.
Mr. KuNziG. As a professor?
Dr. Martin. Yes ; that is right, on the faculty.
1022 COMMUNIST METHODS or INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know a Mr. Grossenbacher — Gnr-o-s-s-e-n-
b-a-c-h-e-r ?
Dr. Martin. Yes ; I recall Mr. Grossenbacher.
Mr. KuNziG. What is his full name, if you know ?
Dr. Martin. I think his first name was Carl. I don't remember the
last one.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know him as a member of the Communist
Party?
Dr. Martin. Yes ; I did.
Mr. KuNziG. When you were a member ?
Dr. Martin. I did not think of that group earlier.
Mr. KuNziG. Was he in your MIT group or in the broader group ?
Dr. Martin. He was in the broader group.
Mr. KuNziG. Was he a teacher or professor, or what was his
position ?
Dr. Martin. He had some staff position, I believe, at Harvard.
I have a feeling it was a rather minor position.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know where he is today ?
Dr. Martin. I do not.
Mr. KuNziG. While we are talking about this broader group, can
you remember any of the names of people who were in the broader
group that you met with as Communists ?
Dr. Martin. I believe a Mr. John H. Eeynolds,
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know what his position was at that time ?
Dr. Martin. I don't recall his exact position. It was some — again,
I believe — minor position at Harvard.
Mr. KuNziG. Minor position at Harvard ?
Dr. Martin. I believe so.
Mr. KuNZiG. Do you irnow where he is today ?
Dr. Martin. I think he's at one of the — I think he may be in
Florida at one of the universities, but I am not sure of the precise
one.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Hugh Dowker — D-o-w-k-e-r?
Dr. Martin. I loiew him personally. I don't believe I ever met
with him.
Mr. KuNZTG. Did you know him as a member of the Communist
Party, whether or not you met with him ?
Dr. Martin, I can't say that with absolute certainty.
Mr. Kunzig. Did you know Henry Wallman ?
Dr. Martin. I knew him personally and scientifically.
Mr. Kunzig. Did you know him as a member of the Communist
Party?
Dr. Martin. Not by actually meeting with him.
Mr. Kunzig. Do you now feel that he was a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Dr. Martin. I feel he was for a short while. I also feel rather cer-
tain that he left very early in my career.
Mr. Kunzig. Did you know Mr. Herbert Philbrick?
Dr. Maritn. To the best of my knowledge, I never have met Mr.
Philbrick.
Mr. Kunzig. Herbert Philbrick testified that Dr. Struik lectured
the members of the Communist Party on the necessity of overthrow
of the Government by force and violence, including imperialistic
governments, as he said, such as the United States.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1023
Now, do you know of any such activity or did you ever participate
in any such activity ?
Di\ Martix. To the best of my knowledge, I did not.
Mr. KuNziG. Have complaints of such activity on the part of Struik
ever been brought to your attention as head of the mathematics de-
partment ?
Dr. JMariix. Those woukl not tend to come to me.
Mr. KuNziG. You have heard of such complaints, though?
Dr. Martix. Yes; I've heard of such complaints.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know anything about it as head of the mathe-
matics department ?
Dr. Martix. No ; that is really outside my domain.
Mr. KuxziG. I see. Outside of your work ?
Dr. INIartix. As head of the department ; that is correct.
Mr. KuxziG. Now, the thing I think would interest the committee
very greatly, if you could possibly explain to them in your attempt
here to cooperate with the committee this morning. Doctor, is how
you can account for what would seem to be an abnormally large per-
centage of Communists at MIT?
Dr^ Martix. I don't know how to explain that, except the fact that
when one person is in he may — if he commands respect of others, he
may interest others in it, and
Mr. KuxziG. You mean that professors at a college or at a univer-
sity commanding, as they do, the respect of students or other pro-
fessors, if they were Communists, might tend to attract other students
or professors to the Communist Party ?
Dr. Martix. I believe I would tend to restrict that to the professors,
but not to the students.
Mr. KuxziG. You mean professors have no contacts with students?
Dr. Martix. That is not quite right. They have contact but during
my association there was rather great care exercised on the part of
professors not to try to influence students.
Mr. KuxziG. Do you feel that your interest as a Communist and
as a top professor in the mathematics department might have ac-
counted for other Communists coming in there or being there ?
Dr. Martix-^. During my membership there at ISIIT I have a rather —
I should emphasize I was rather young and did not have a very top
position. That is when I was
Mr. KuxziG. It was later on you became
Dr. Martix. It was later on 1 had the higher position.
I don't believe I was commanding a great deal of respect at that
time.
Mr. KuxziG. Well, now. Professor Martin, your being in the Com-
munist Party was a secret thing, was it not ?
**■ Dr. Martix. It was not known widely. Yes; that is correct,
Mr. KuxziG. Not known widely. Was it known by anybody ex-
cept the other members of the Communist Party with whom you met ?
Dr. ISIartix. I believe that is all.
Mr. KuxziG. You didn't announce it publicly ?
Dr. Martix^, That is right ; I did not announce it publicly,
Mr. KuxziG. You have already talked about a card. Did you ever
at any time use an alias in the party or have any other name in the
party, as was apparently customary ?
>
1024 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Dr. JNIartin. There may have been another name on the card, but
I never really went by another name.
Mr. KuNziG. Was there another name on the card?
Dr. Martin. I believe there was.
]Mr. KuNziG. So if, for example, there had been an investigation or
if the FBI had raided the headquarters, or something of that nature,
your name as William Ted Martin would not have come out or would
not have been discovered?
Dr. Martin. I believe that is correct.
]Mr. KuNziG. Any cards or papers or documents that were there
would have been under that assumed name?
Dr. Martin. I suppose so."**
Mr. KuNziG. Well, w^hy did you feel it necessary — and this I can-
not understand, sir — if you were just a professor interested in philo-
sophical discussions to better mankind and to do away with racial
discrimination — for this tremendous secrecy ?
Dr. Martin. I'll have to just try to reconstruct my thinking at the
time. It's not — what it's been since — some of that seems very stupid
now, but I will try to reconstruct,
Mr. KuNziG. I realize this is some time ago.
Dr. Martin. Yes; but also now I feel it is stupid, but I will try to
reconstruct.
In the first place, the secrecy was there when I joined. I mean I
didn't feel I started the secrecy and I didn't feel called upon to try to
change it — that is, I just accepted it — and it seemed to me from — since
public o])inion at that time clearly w^as not most favorable to this —
that it might be wiser to keep it that way.
Mr. KuNziG. You knew that public opinion was not favorable?
Dr. Martin. I did ; yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Even at that time?
Dr. Martin. Even at that time.
Mr. Velde. Well, I don't quite understand you there. Doctor. Pub-
lic opinion was not in favor of what — what the Communist Party
stood for?
Dr. Martin. There were from time to time in the papers criticisms
of the Communist Party, and I felt — I feel that public opinion — I felt
then and I feel now that public opinion would have been in favor of
what I, myself, went in for and what I was trying to do, and what
my acqiiaintanceship with the party was at that time.
Mr. VELDE. When was the last time you carried a Communist Party
card or a Communist Political Association card ?
Dr. Martin. The reason I hesitate — I don't know if I ever really
carried a Communist Party card or Communist Political Association
card. I don't recall ever — maybe the first year I was in, but certainly
not very long — very little time, if any.
Mr. Velde. You mean the first year you were in the Communist
Party or the Communist Political Association ?
Dr. Martin. No ; the first year I w\as in the Communist Party. I
may have had one ; I don't recall.
Mr. Velde. You don't recall whether you used your own name or
another name on that particular card, if you
Dr. Martin. I do not ever recall ever carrying the card ; no.
Mr. KuNziG. Doctor, didn't you realize, or do you realize today,
that a famous and distinguished professor, such as yourself, at the top
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1025
of the mathematics department in a great institution, outstanding in
that field, in itself, lends — and I choose the word carefully — dignity
or impressiveness to the Communist Party itself just because you are
part of it?
Dr. Martin. May I repeat that I did not have that position while
I was a member and I did not consider myself a man — I mean
Mr. KuNziG, I see.
Dr. Martin (continuing). One of these men with prestige, great
prestige.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, when you went to Syracuse for those 3 years
prior to your leaving the party, were you a member of the party at
Syracuse University?
Dr. Martin. I was a member while I resided in Syracuse.
Mr. KuxziG. While you resided in Syracuse?
Dr. INIartin. That is correct.
Mr. KuNziG. That was as a member of the Communist Party in the
City of Syracuse in contradistinction to that of Syracuse University?
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. KuNziG. What were your Communist activities there in the
Communist Party?
Dr. Martin. They were very slight because I was very busy with my
mathematics and my work, and during part of that time, as Mr. Velde
has mentioned, the Communist Political Association was there. It was
mainly again discussion at that time. There was considerable interest
on my part in supporting the national effort toward the entire national
defense effort there.
Mr. KuNziG. Was your membership, so far as you know, in the
Communist Party transferred along with you when you went up to
Syracuse ?
Dr. Martin. I believe not.
Mr. KuNziG. From MIT?
Dr. Martin. I believe not.
Mr. Kunzig. You joined again?
Dr. Martin. I didn't join. I think I eventually — well, transferred
in the sense that I made the transfer myself. It was a voluntary
thing.
Mr. Kunzig. Did you know Helen Deane Markham — M-a-r-k-
h-a-m?
Dr. Martin. I have known her, just as a person.
Mr. Kunzig. As a person.
Did you know her as a member of the Communist Party ?
Dr. Martin. I did not.
Mr. Kunzig. Did you ever belong to any organization of individuals
from which group Helen Deane Markham acted as either membership
or financial secretary?
Dr. Martin. I believe the American Association of Scientific Work-
ers. I was a member of that, and I believe she was in it. I don't
recall knowing her other than through that organization.
Mr. Kunzig. Were you acquainted with an individual by the name
of Norman Veal 1 — V-e-a-1-1?
Dr. Martin. I do not recall meeting him.
Mr. Kunzig. Dr. Martin, both Israel Halperin and Norman Veall
were defendants in the Canadian spy trial. Both were, of course.
1026 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
subsequently acquitted. Did you engage in the activity of raising
funds for tlie defense of any of these ])eople ^
Dr. jMartin. I made a contribution for tlie fund for Mr. Halperin.
Mr. KuNziG. I see.
Why did you do that, so far as you may recall ?
Dr. Martin. I liad known him as a friend for several years and felt
that he, in my acquaintanceship with him — that he was a person who
would not knowingly do wrong, and I wanted him to have proper legal
aid.
Mr. KuNziG. That was in spite of the fact you knew him as a mem-
ber of the Communist Party
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. KuNziG (continuing). And the various trials were connected
with Communist spies, and so forth ?
Dr. Martin. Well, at that time, at the time I had known him, as I
say, he seemed very much — a very sincere person, and I contributed
money for his — so he could obtain proper legal counsel, which I felt
would determine whether or not he — that is, give him a chance to see
what the outcome was.
Mr. KuNziG. Have you since reviewed the evidence or studied the
evidence of those trials?
Dr. Martin. Not in great detail. I have seen some of it. I believe
his — I believe he was acquitted or
Mr. KuNziG. Yes; I have already stated that.
Dr. Martin. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, to go back to Syracuse, would you give us the
names of the members of the Communist Party with whom you sat in
meetings and whom you knew as members of the Communist Party
while you were in Syracuse, N. Y. ?
Dr. Martin. There was a man named — I believe his last name
was Putter — Norman Putter — I think P-u-t-t-e-r.
Mr, KuNziG. What was his position at that time ?
Dr. Martin. He was in some business — possibly a salesman.
Mr. KuNziG. Any others?
Dr. Martin. And I
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know where he is today ?
Dr. Martin. I do not know where he is today. I haven't seen him
for a number of years.
Mr. KuNziG. Was he an officer of your Communist group ?
Dr. Martin. I think quite likely.
Mr. KuNziG. What position, if you know ?
Dr. Martin. He may have served. It seems to me he did, but I
wasn't — I wouldn't say that with certainty.
And Mr. Gelbart, whom I mentioned earlier.
Mr. KuNziG. Yes ; you mentioned him earlier.
Any others?
Dr. Martin. I don't recall that group very well. You see, during
part of the time there was a very large group that met in the asso-
ciation, the Communist Political Association, but I don't recall names
very well. I tend to remember people whom I knew personally more
than I do just — as vague ones.
Mr. KuNZiG. Well, now
Mr. Velde. Were these meetings you attended at that time what
you would call closed meetings, closed to everybody except members
of the Communist
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1027
Dr. Martin. Some-
Mr. Velde (continuing). Political Association?
Dr. Martin. Some were, and some were not, at that time.
Mr. Velde. How large were the meetings which were closed to the
general public?
Dr. IVIartin. I think those were only 4 or 5 — something like that.
Mr. Velde. That is, 4 or 5 at a time, but there may have been
Dr. Martin. There may have been more in Syracuse, but I was not
widely acquainted there.
Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Martin, back to INIIT, it is the committee's under-
standing that scholarships to MIT have been awarded to 2 sons of
Earl Browder, and that 1 son, Felix Browder, was employed as a part-
time or full-time instructor at MIT. Does that enliven your knowl-
edge ?
Dr. Martin. The latter does, about Felix Browder, and I assume
the sons had scholarships; and the}^ are, I believe, undergraduates,
and that would not be handled directly by
Mr. KuNZiG. Do you have any knowledge as to how it came about
that Browder's sons were selected for scholarships, or anything of that
nature?
Dr. Martin. Well, one of them is a very good student. He has an
outstanding record, and I m sure it was on the merits of his case.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know either of the Browder sons as members
of the Communist Party ?
Dr. Martin. I did not.
Mr. KuNziG. That was at a later period after you were not a mem-
ber; is that the point?
Dr. Martin. Yes ; I believe I never met any of them until after I
left, and I don't know they were ever members. In fact-
Mr. KuNziG. Well, now, professor, we were talking a moment ago
about MIT and about the names you have listed in the mathematics
and other departments of MIT whom you knew as Communists. You
mentioned, I believe G or 7. I don't, of course, mean to assume there
were more at MIT than any other college or that MIT is different
from any other, but can you explain what your viewpoint is as to
whether Communists, present da}^ Communists, should teach in
schools or be professors in universities?
Dr. Martin. I think presently Communists should not teach in uni-
versities and be professors.
Mr. KuNziG. If you were a college professor and had charge of
appointing professors, would you appoint a Communist to the staff ?
Dr. Martin. I would not.
Mr. KuNZiG. Would j^ou appoint a Communist if you were in the
lower schools, high school, or any other grade of school, where young
children go?
Dr. Martin. I would not.
JNIr. KuNziG. And why do you feel that way, sir ?
Dr. Martin. Because I feel there's too much conflict with what
tliey feel and what they should be doing.
Mr. DoTLE. May I hear that answer again ?
Dr. Martin. I feel there's too much conflict between what they
might tend to feel and what they would be expected to do as teachers.
Mr. KuNziG, In other words, you would apparently not feel that
1028 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Communists could maintain any sort of intellectual freedom or free-
dom to teach as they see fit?
Dr. JNIartin. I think it would be very difficult for a Communist to-
day to do that.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Dojde, do you have some questions?
Mr. Doyle. Referring to your answer a minute ago, professor, that
you felt there might be too much of a conflict between what a Com-
munist professor would feel in the classroom and what he was sup-
posed to teach, what would he feel in the classroom as a Communist
as a contradistinction to what he was supposed to teach as a professor ?
Dr. ]\Iartin. Well, I can
Mr. Doyle. Where is the conflict?
Dr. Martin. I can speak only from what I see in the papers and
read today.
Mr. Doyle. Well. I am asking you also to look back at your own
experience.
Dr. Martin. I never felt any conflict.
]Mr. Doyle. You what ?
Dr. Martin. I never felt any conflict at the time, because I did not
feel the things I was interested in, the particular social problems
which I was interested in, created any possible conflict ; but
Mr. Doyle. But you were in the Communist Party 8 years ?
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. Doyle. And after you got out of it you went back in it again,
after the Communist Political Association was dissolved?
Dr. Martin. Yes ; I believe that is part of the total
Mr. Doyle. Well, part
Dr. Martin (continuing). Period.
Mr. Doyle (continuing) . Of the total ?
Dr. Martin. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. You must have had pretty strong feelings to stay in 8
years in a secret organization ?
Dr. Martin. Well, as I say, my interest began to wane and I began
to be much more bored about it much earlier.
Mr. Doyle. Well, it took you a long time to get out.
Dr. Martin. It did.
Mr. Doyle. I am being perfectly frank with you because you are a
highly trained man.
Dr. Martin. But I'll be frank and say as I look back I don't know
why it took me that long.
(Representative James B. Frazier, Jr., entered the hearing room
at this point.)
Mr. Doyle. Were you ever an officer in the MIT Communist cell,
or whatever the name of it was ? Were you ever chosen by your fellow
Communists secretly to be an officer in that group ?
Dr. Martin. I don't believe it was much — it was a small group, and
I don't remember much in the way of
Mr. Dotle. Well, there must have been a chairman.
Dr. Martin. I don't recall ever being chairman of it.
Mr. Doyle. Did you ever lead in the discussion? Were you ever
assigned to discuss any of the subjects ?
Dr. Martin. I probably was, but I don't recall about it.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1029
Mr. DoTLE. Well, now, think a minute, please, I am asking a direct
question : Did you ever lead in the discussion of this MIT Communist
cell?
Dr. Martin. Well, I certainly must have given reports on some-
thing there, and
Mr. Doyle. Well, did you ?
I am trying to tind out the extent of your activity in this Com-
munist cell in which you stayed secretly 8 years.
Dr. Martin. Well," I can recall talking about my general activities
when I was, for instance, in the American Association of Scientific
Workers, reporting on activities to bring people up to date on that.
Yes ; I can remember that.
Mr. Doyle. You said the thing that attracted you into this secret
organization, which you knew was secret when you went into it, was
the subject of liberal legislation, philosophical subjects, to prevent
discrimination and interest in unemployment?
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. Doyle. I presume before you joined the secret Communist
Party you were a member of some other political party, and I am not
asking'you which one, but were you a registered voter before you went
into the Communist Party ?
Dr. Martin. I was previously, sometimes.
Mr. DoTLE. I am not asking you which party, but at that time did
you feel that wliatever political party you were a member of was not
active enough in the field of preventing discrimination and in the
field of seeking to see that there was average employment in America ?
Dr. Martin. Well, I think everybody at that time — and I recognize
that all groups were working toward that — ^I just happened to feel at
that time that here was a group who seemed to be discussing it along
the verv lines that I thought would be effective, and I
't?'
Mr. Doyle. Well, wasn't your own political party working along
the same line?
Dr. Martin. It was.
Mr. Doyle. Well, why did you leave it, then ?
Dr. IMartin. I can only say that I felt probably I could be more
effective with this other group, as I — it's hard to think back now,
particularly since I think that was a mistake, that I thought that;
but I can try to reconstruct and say I thought that.
Mr. Doyle. I think our distinguished counsel did not take time to
ask you who invited you into the Communist Party. Who did invite
you *? How did you happen to join ?
Dr. Martin. Well, I was — happened to have an apartment with a
person who was a member and whom I respected, and we
Mr. Doyle. Did you name that person for the benefit of the com-
mittee's study?
Dr. Martin. I named him : yes. I don't know if he actually invited
me, but we talked these things over and I came in as a result of that.
Mr. Doyle. Now, you mentioned Professors Amdur, Levinson, Ar-
guimbau, Plalperin, Blaisdell, Gelbart, and several others.
Dr. Martin. That is correct.
Mr. Doyle. Do I understand all you distinguished men in educa-
tion were members of the same Communist cell and met for a period
of years in a secret outfit ?
1030 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Dr. Martin. No. There were times when we were not in the same
one, and also times when we did not meet together, and there was a
change in it from time to time.
Mr. Doyle. You mentioned that you discussed liberal legislation
in this Communist cell. What liberal legislation did you discuss as a
secret Communist member? What liberal legislation?
Dr. Martin. Well, I
Mr. Doyle. Did you discuss any at the national level?
Dr. Martin. Yes. I seem to recall there w\as discussion when social
security went in. There was a discussion of the proposed social-
security bills.
Mr. Doyle. And was that the only liberal legislation ?
Dr. Martin. No. There were more. I'll try to think of more.
I'm certain there was discussion of — I don't remember just what
occurred when, but of various labor acts, and so on, that is, acts of
that sort.
Mr. Doyle. That was not very extensive discussion, then ; was it?
Dr. Martin. Well, after a short while the war came along and
United States was in the war, and I
Mr. Doyle. You say you discussed other organizations interested
in tlie same things. What other organizations did you discuss that
were interested in the same thing ?
Dr. Martin. Well, I — the American Association of Scientific
Workers had some of these interests — not all — and I discussed things
that organization was doing.
Mr. Doyle. You said you discussed philosophical subjects. What
philosophical subjects?
Dr. Martin. There was discussion of Marxist literature.
Mr. Doyle. Did you read Marxist literature?
Dr. Martin. I read some.
]\Ir. Doyle. How early in your experience in the secret outfit did
you begin to read Marxist literature ? The first year ?
Dr. Martin. I imagine the first year.
Mr. Doyle. How long did it take you to discover that the Marxist
literature and theory, philosophically, was only totalitarian Soviet
communism's scheme to rule the world, and that it should rule the
world ? When did you discover that, if you ever did ?
Dr. Martin. Well, I certainl}^ feel it now.
Mr. Doyle. When did you discover it?
Dr. Mar'itn. I didn't think of it in that line at all when I was
Mr. Doyle. Well, you read it ?
Dr. Martin. I read it. I was not very much interested in it,
frankly.
Mr. Doyle. If it seems as though I am cross-examining you.
Professor
Dr. Martin. Oh
Mr. Doyle (continuing). In a sense, I am, because I am amazed.
Frankly, while I appreciate your coming and helping us, I am amazed
that you and a number of men in this distinguished educational insti-
tution were members of a secret organization for several years. I
could expect it from a lower level of privilege in America, but I am
shocked
Dr. Martin. Well, it seems
Mr. Doyle. And, yet, I
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1031
Dr. Martin (continuing). Very stupid to me. I was younger and
less mature, and I hope I am wiser than I was then.
Mr. Doyle. How many members were in this MIT group?
Dr. Martin. I think I have named about the group — probably
about 6 or 7 at the time.
Mr. Doyle. Did you ever invite other people to join the cell?
Dr. Martin. Very rarely. I think I may have done so once or
twice.
Mr. Doyle. Your answer then is : Yes ; you did ?
Dr. Martix. My answer is, I did.
Mr. Doyle. Several of them — more than 2 or 3 ?
Dr. Martin. No.
Mr. Doyle. Did you ever go to any other Communist cell and lec-
ture and speak?
Dr. Martin. Not to my knowledge.
]Mr. Doyle. Well, now, think a minute.
Dr. Martin. I feel I never spoke before any other group.
Mr. Doyle. Our distinguished chairman called your attention to
the Duclos letter that I believe historically came to this country in
about May 1945. Did you ever read the Duclos letter when it came?
Dr. Martin. I read it.
Mr. Doyle. And what was your conclusion when you read it, as
relates to the subject of whether or not the American system of free,
competitive enterprise and the Soviet system could survive side by
side in the world ?
Dr. JNIartin. I felt they would survive side by side.
Mr. Doyle. You felt they could ?
Dr. Martin. I felt tliey could.
Mr. Doyle. In spite of what the Duclos letter said ?
Dr. Martin. Eight now I do not recall what the Duclos letter said.
Mr. Doyle. Well, Earl Browder was deposed shortly after that;
wasn't he ?
Dr. Martin. I believe he was.
Mr. Doyle. Why was he deposed, if you have any opinion, or
formed any opinion?
You had supported, hadn't you, his theory of communism in Amer-
ica during the time you were in the cell ?
(Representative James B. Frazier, Jr., left the hearing room at
this point. )
Dr. Martin. Yes, as far as I know.
Mr. Doyle. Then if you stayed in the cell after he was deposed —
am I in error ? — you must have then concluded that the basis of the
Duclos letter was sound, as far as you are concerned ?
Dr. Martin. Would you mind giving me just a little resume of
that letter, which I am really very vague about now, before I try to
answer that.
Mr. Doyle. You read it. I am not going to try to refresh your
memory.
Mr. Velde. Well, Mr. Doyle
Mr. Doyle. In all fairness to you
Dr. Martin. It's evident that letter did not make much of an
impression.
Mr. Doyle. All right.
1032 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Dr. Martin. I just assume I did, if I did, and it was clear I was
be<2:inning to leave the movement.
Mr. DoYi.E. I will accept, then, as explanatory of the fact that it
didn't seem to be too important to you at that time.
Now, I am going to ask you a few questions. Professor, which I
think will be entirely different as I ask them now to you perhaps.
I ail; asking you to jump over into the area of seeing if there is any
advice, recommendation, or suggestion you can give this committee
in our investigation.
This committee, as you know, operates under Public Law 601, passed
by this Congress in 1945, and under that law we are assigned the duty
of investigating subversive activities.
Of course, you know, generally speaking, the Communist Party has
been held to be subversive by our courts. I mean members generally
have been found guilty where they have been tried before American
juries of being party to a conspiracy to violent!}' and forcefully over-
throw our form of government.
This committee, under that Public Law 601, is assigned the very
heavy duty of trying to find out the facts, which will come back to the
United States Congress to help it to more intelligently legislate. In
other words, that perhaps is our main objective — to recommend
legislation.
Now, growing out of your experience of 8 years — whatever it was —
have you any suggestion to us in the area of legislation?
You got out of the party voluntarily in 1946. Something caused
you to get out. I will not take the time of you or the committee now
to ask you what caused you to get out more in detail, but what
about legislation?
You are a trained man in education, one of the top men in our coun-
try, in your own field.
Dr. MARTi>r. I would like to be a little more modest in that, on my
standing; thank you.
Mr. Doyle. Well, any man wdio is the top of the mathematics de-
partment in MIT or any man who has the privilege of teaching there,
in my humble opinion, is one of the trustees of American security and
American safety.
Dr. Martin. Thank you.
Mr. Doyle. Now, have you any suggestion to us in the field of
legislation ?
Dr. Martin. That's so far afield from where I feel I have any way of
speaking with any authority, I just feel I couldn't make any suggestion
on that.
Mr. Doyle. Was this committee ever discussed in the Communist
meetings which you attended, or any congressional investigating com-
mittee in the field?
Did you ever discuss the functioning of this committee ?
Dr. Martin. I don't recall discussing that.
Mr. Doyle. Well, you were subpenaed to come before this
committee?
Dr. Martin. I was, sir.
Mr. DoYi-E. Again, I want to thank you for doing what you have ;
but wliy don't more men in your class — wliy don't moi'e educated
?choohnen — who were formerly in the lield, formerly members of the
Communist Party, even before the Duclos letter, 1945 — why is it more
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1033
men of your type, instead of Avaitino; to be subpenaed, don't come for-
ward in executive session or offer oft' the record to come and help Con-
gress be better qualified and fitted to do its fullest duty ?
Why is it you hold back until you are subpenaed ?
If you felt it was wise to get out of the conspiracy, what is it that
holds you men back from coming forward voluntarily ?
Dr. Martin. Well, it's just a very difficult decision to make and one
that one does not arrive at easily. It has to be a subject that one thinks
about and finally arrives at that decision within himself — what he
feels the best procedure is.
Mr. Doyle. Well, when you get out of the Communist Party, you
feel there is something inconsistent in the objectives of that party as
contrasted to the safety and welfare of your own Nation, don't you?
That is one of the impelling motives that gets you out of it ?
Dr. Martin. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Well, why, then, with that impelling motive, strong
enough to get j^ou out of that conspiracy, don't men of your type
\T)luntaril3' come forward in the interests of the security of our own
Nation ?
In other words, if you had the impelling motive to get out, because
you became afraid of its objectives, as related to our own national
security, why don't you have impelling motive enough to cause you to
voluntarily lielp in the interests of our own national security?
Dr. Martin. Well, I certainly want to help in that.
I knew many of these people whom I've mentioned here today, of
whom you have asked me, were, I felt— went in with what I felt were
very sincere motives — that they have left long ago, and it is not easy
to bring one's self to mention names; and some people whose names
are mentioned, who may have left years ago, will experience difticidty
as a result of that, and that is just not an easy conflict for a man to
resolve within himself.
Mr. Doyle. I realize that, Professor. I think every American does
who is more devoted to our American way of life than to communism
and Sovietism.
And may I say again if I have seemed to
Dr. Martin. Oh, that is quite all right.
Mr. Doyle (continuing). Cross-examine you in any sense at all, it
is only because I wanted to more quickly put you in a position where
you could see what I was after as a member of "this committee
Dr. Martin. That is quite all right.
Mr. D0Y1.E. To get the facts as quickly as possible from you.
Thank you very much.
Dr. Martin. Thank you, Mr. Doyle.
Mr. KuNZiG. I have no further questions, INIr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. Dr. Martin, the Duclos letter was discussed very fully,
and I noticed there was some doubt in your mind concerning the
contents of the letter. I am no authority on the Duclos letter, I want
you to understand, but generally it was a letter that was sent from
the French Communist, who is now a leader of the French Communists,
Jacques Duclos, to the American Communist Party, and it was — I am
about to retract my statement— in May of 1945, instead of August of
1945 as I mentioned before. Generally, it directed the American
Communist Party, or the then Communist Political Association, to
disband as such and to reorganize as a militant, fighting organization,
1034 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
figlitino; against capitalism, fighting against oiir free-enterprise system
of economy, and fighting against onr general political system.
There was a lot of discnssion among various Communist Party
groups in the United States at the time that letter was brought before
their memberships. Some of the members of the Communist cells
quit at that time because they finally realized that the American Com-
munist Party was getting its instructions from Soviet Russia — and,
with all the evidence before this committee and the other committees
of Congress concerning the source of the Duclos letter, there isn't
much question but what it came directly from the Soviet, from the
Kremlin,
It was at that time, when the members of the Communist Party
understood that, that a number of them quit.
Now, I think the question that the gentleman from California asked
you was very proper — why, if you were aware of the source of this
letter at that time, you didn't quit the party at that particular time.
Dr. Martin. I guess I wasn't very fully aware of that. The fact
that I don't seem to recall much of it, as I say — I was certainly — my
interest and activity were diminishing, but I must not have thought
very much about that at that time.
Mr. Velde. Were you ever familiar with an organization known
as the FAECT, the Federation of Architects, Engineers, Chemists,
and Technicians?
Dr. Martin. Very vaguely. It seems to me in the 1930's I once
heard mention of it, but I don't recall any activity with it at all.
Mr. Velde. You don't recall either at Syracuse or at MIT
Dr. Martin. I do not recall ■
Mr. Velde (continuing). That organization?
Dr. Martin (continuing). At MIT such an organization.
Mr. Velde. Well, Doctor Martin, you have cooperated with us
and contributed a gi'eat deal to the committee's vast fund of infor-
mation concerning subversive activities. Communist subversive activ-
ities, in the United States. I certainly do thank you for the attitude
you display here.
It is my opinion that, as a result of your testimony, no inference
should be drawn by the public, press or otherwise that MIT or Syra-
cuse University is any more infiltrated with the Communist Party
members than any of our great American institutions of learning.
As a matter of fact, I am sure the gentleman from California has
always had the greatest respect for MIT and Syracuse University.
Mv. Doyle. That is quite so.
Mr. Vei>de. And we realize tliere- are relatively few people, both as
students and as professors and teachers, who have become entangled in
the mesh of Communist intrigue.
It is with a view of determining to wliat extent the American Com-
munist Party and Soviet Russia infiltrated our educational system
that we are having these hearings, and we are glad to find out that
it isn't as serious as a good many people would think.
However, we do feel that one Communist teacher in one of our
great American universities at the present time can be very dangerous
to our internal security. It is with that view in mind we are making
these investigations.
Do you have anything further?
Mr. KuNziG. Nothing further for this witness, sir.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1035
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I make this observation : I am
sure you will agree with me — It is always a pleasure to find a dis-
tinguished American counsel to take time to come from a busy law
practice to appear before this committee; and, as a member of the
bar, I want to recognize that to have a distinguished, busy American
counsel come from another city to come here is quite refreshing to the
committee.
Mr. Velde. And I will concur in that statement.
Mr. Raxd. May I say I appreciate the expression by the members
of the committee and, if I may, I would like to say I have talked a
number of times very earnestly and at length in my office with Pro-
fessor Martin and if I hadn't felt he wasn't entirely sincere, I wouldn't
be here; and I appreciate the courtesies that the committee have
extended to him, and the way he has been examined.
I wdsh I knew the answer. Congressman Doyle, to your question ; but
I'm afraid I don't, and I have served in the legislature, but never the
Congress of the United States.
Dr. Martix. May I say a word ^
Mr. Velde. Certainly.
Dr. ]VL\RTiN. I would like to say Mr. Eand's faith and belief in me
have helped me reach the conclusion I have reached and the decision
to take this course of action.
I thank you.
Mr. Velde. I hope and pray there are a lot more lawyers like Mr.
Eand throughout this country.
The witness is excused, with the committee's thanks.
(Whereupon, the witness was excused.)
Mr. Velde. Do you have another witness ?
Mr. KuxziG. Yes, sir.
Mr. Zilsel.
Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this sub-
committee, do you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. ZiLSEL. I do.
Mr. KuxziG. Be seated, please.
Mr. Velde. Let the record show at this point this is a continuance
of the hearings this morning under the same subcommittee consisting
of Mr. Doyle, from California, and the chairman, Mr. Velde.
The Chair would like to announce that any other witnesses who are
called for this afternoon or for today may retire for lunch at the pres-
ent time, if you care to do so. and we will continue after we hear this
witness for a short time until 2 :oO this afternoon.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. KuxziG. Mr. Zilsel, if you are accompanied by counsel, would
counsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Cobb. Yes. My name is David Cobb — C-o-b-b— and I am a
member of the bar of the District of Columbia, a member of the firm
of Cobb and AVeissbrodt, and our office is at 1822 Jefferson Place NAV.,
here in the city.
Mr. KuxziG. ]Slr. Cobb, I understand this is the first time you have
appeared before this committee, but I think, since you have been here
this morning, you understand the rules regarding counsel and the
position of counsel.
Mr. Cobb. It is the first time I have appeared before the committee.
30172— 53— pt. 3 5
1036 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
TESTIMONY OF PAUI KUDOLPH ZIISEL, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, DAVID COBB
Mr. KuNziG. Would you give your full name and address, please,
Mr. Zilsel ?
Mr. Zilsel. Paul Rudolph Zilsel.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell Zilsel?
Mr. Zilsel. Z, as in zebra, i-l-s-e-1; and the name of the town of
Storrs, Conn.
Mr. KuNziG. AVhen and where were j^ou born, Mr. Zilsel?
Mr. Zilsel. I was born in Vienna, Austria, on May 6, li)2;i
Mr. KuNziG. When did you come to this country ?
Mr. Zilsel. In August 1939.
Mr. KuNZiG. When did you become a citizen, if you are a citizeu?
Mr. Zilsel. I am. I became a citizen in November 1945.
Mr. KuxziG. When did you file your application for citizenship?
Mr. Zilsel. I'm afraid I can't recall that exactly but I am under
the impression that it was almost immediately after I arrived in this
country. Wait a minute — I'm sorry — that can't be quite true, because
I was under 18 at that time, and I think there is a regulation you can't
do it until one is 18. So, it must have been when I was 18. I came
with my parents. My parents filed application right away ; but since
I was between 16 and 18, 1 didn't file until I w^as 18.
Mr, KuNziG. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
educational background ?
Mr. Zilsel. Yes, sir. I went to public school in the gymnasium,
Vienna, Austria, left Vienna in September 1938, spent a year in Eng-
land, where I went to what is called public school there, graduated
from public school in England, and then came to this country, went
to the College of Charleston, Charleston, S. C, where I got my bache-
lor's degree in 1943, then went to the University of Wisconsin as a
graduate student in September 1943, interrupted my studies there
for about f) months, in the spring of 1944, after the death of my father,
went back there in the fall of 1944, got my master's degree in 194.5,
transferred to Yale in January 1947, and received my doctor's degree
from Yale in 1948.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you give the committee a brief resume of your
employment background ?
Mr. Zilsel. After I left school, or all the way through?
Mr. KuNziG. Let's say after you left school.
Mr. Zilsel. Well, after I left Yale, I liad a postdoctoral fellowshi])
at Duke University for a year, that is, from January 1948 to January
1949. I then was an assistant professor of physics at Colorado A. and
M. College for a year, from January 1949 to January 1950, and since
tlien I have been at the University of Connecticut continuously.
Mr. KuxziG. Is that where you are at the present time ?
Mr. Zilsel. I am now an assistant professor of physics at the Uni-
versity of Connecticut; yes, sir.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Zilsel, have you at any time been a member of the
Comnuniist Party ?
Mr. Zilsel. I am not now a member of the Communist Party.
The second part of your question I will have to decline to answ^er
on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments, and because to answer
it would tend to degrade me.
COMRaiNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1037
I also would like to have it appear in the record that I am pleading
the privilege of the fifth amendment becanse I do not want to be put
into a position where I have to inform on people whom I consider to
be perfectly innocent.
Mr. KuNziG. The fifth amendment, you understand, has nothing to
do with other people. It only refers to yourself. So, let's get that
part straight. It is a privilege against incriminating yourself, a
privilege against being required to testify against yourself. There is
no law, so far as I know, that prevents anybody from testifying
against other people.
Mr. ZiLSEL. I understand that.
Mr. KuNziG. So, you don't wish to testify because of possible danger
of incriminating not other people, but yourself; is that correct?
Mr. ZiLSEL. That is correct, sir.
At the same time I understand that I could waive this privilege if I
wanted to
Mr. KuxziG. Yes.
]Mr. ZiLSEL. And I might do this, if it were not for the reason that I
have outlined.
Mr. KuxziG. Mr. Zilsel, since your legal admittance to the United
States, have you ever traveled abroad?
Mr. Zilsel, No, sir.
Mr. KuxziG. You have never left the borders of the United States
since you first came here ?
Mr. Zilsel. No ; I have not.
ISIr. KuNZiG. Are you acquainted with a man by the name of Byron
Darling ?
Mr. Zilsel. Yes; I am.
Mr. KtixziG. AVliere did you know Mr. Darling?
Mr. Zilsel. I first met Mr. Darling at the University of Wisconsin,
where I was a graduate student, and he was a research associate. At
the time I went to Yale a whole group of people in the physics depart-
ment went to Yale, and he did also. So, I knew him at Yale also.
Mr. KuxziG. Is that the same Professor Darling who is now or was
at Ohio State until a few days ago?
Mr. Zilsel. I believe so ; yes, sir.
Mr. Kux^ziG. Did you know Dr. Darling, or Professor Darling, as
a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Zilsel. No, sir ; not to my knowledge.
Mr. KuxziG. Did jou ever attend Communist Party meetings ?
Mr. Zilsel. I will have to decline to answer that question on the
grounds that I have stated.
Mv. Kux'ziG. How did you obtain your employment, Mr. Zilsel, at
Yale University ?
Mr. Zilsel. I was there as a student, Mr. Kunzig. I'm afraid I
don't quite understand the question. I was a student at Yale.
Mr. KuxziG. I'm sorry. You were a student at Yale University.
You never taught at Yale University in any way?
INIr. Zilsel. No ; I had a research assistantship as a graduate student
there.
Mr. Kux'ziG. ^Miat work did you do in this research assistantship?
Mr. Zilsel. I did essentially work on my doctoral thesis in theo-
retical physics.
1038 COIMMTJNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever work at any time for the United States
Government ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. I believe that the research assistantship that I had was
under an O and R contract. However, this was not a contract to me,
but a contract to Yale University.
Mr. KuNziG. And what type of work was it?
Mr. ZiLSEL. Well, it was involved in calculations, in quantum
mechanics and theoretical physics, which is my field of work.
Mr. KuNziG. The benefit of which calculations was to be used by the
United States Government?
Mr. ZiLSEL. Well, in a sense. However, they were published. That
is, there was no secret work of any kind involved in it. I believe the
Office of Naval Research has a policy of encouraging fundamental
research, with a view of general benefit which this confers.
Mr. KuNziG. Did vou ever know a person by the name of Joseph
Henry Cort— C-o-r-t?
Mr. Ztlsel. I will have to decline that question.
Mr. KuNziG. On the same grounds ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. On the same grounds.
Mr. KuNZiG. Did you know a person by the name of Benjamin
Dontzin — D-o-n-t-z-i-n — when you were at Yale as a student?
Mr. ZiLSEL. I think I will have to decline to answer that question
also.
Mr. KuNZiG. Now, this committee has information, Professor Zilsel,
that these names that I am asking about and these people that we are
asking for information about were members of a Communist cell at
Yale University.
Do you know a Daniel Fine — Dr. Fine — who testified before this
committee a few days ago ?
Mr. Zilsel. I don't believe I do.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you Imow a William Kerner — K-e-r-n-e-r?
Mr. Zilsel. I will have to decline to answer that.
Mr. KuxziG. Well, let's get that clear for the record again. You
don't have to decline. Are you declining
Mr. Zilsel. I am declining on the same grounds.
Mr. KuNZiG. Now, did you know an Arthur L. Levy at the time you
were at Yale ?
Mr. Zilsel. I will have to decline to answer. I do decline that
also.
Mr. KuNziG. All right.
Now, do you know a Theodore S. Polumbaum, who testified before
this committee yesterday?
That is P-o-l-u-m-b-a-u-m.
Mr. Cobb. Could you spell that again, please?
Mr. KuNZiG. P-o-l-u-m-b-a-u-m.
Mr. Zilsel. I believe I will decline to answer that also.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know while you were at Yale an individual
by the name of Bernard W. Rubinstein — R-u-b-i-n-s-t-e-i-n?
Mr. Zilsel. I don't recall.
Mr. KuNziG. You don't recall ?
Mr. Zilsel. That's right.
Mr. Ktjnzig. Did you know a Gerald Brown ?
Mr. Zilsel. Yes.
COMJMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1039
Mr. KuNZiCx. Or Jerry BroAvn ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. Yes; I do.
Mr. KuNziG. You do ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know him when you were at Yale ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. Yes.
Mr. KuxziG. Did you know him at the University of Wisconsin?
Mr. ZiLSEL. Yes ; he was one of that same group of physics graduate
students who went from Wisconsin to Yale.
Mr. KuxziG. Did you know him as a member of the Communist'
Party?
Mr. ZiLSEL. I will have to decline to answer that question.
Mr. Velde. Let the record show^ that any declination to answer the
question — I presume this is all right with counsel and witness — is
based upon the first statement made after his refusal to answer the
first question.
Mr. Cobb. That's correct.
Mr. Zilsel. Yes, sir.
I decline to answer these questions without at the same time admit-
ting any implications of anything,
Mr. KuNziG. Did you attend any meeting of the Youth Commission
of the Communist Party at which Gerald Brown was a speaker?
Mr. Zilsel. In view of the fact that I have declined to answer ques-
tions on whether I was a member of the Communist Party, I feel this
question has implications and should not be answered. .
Mr. KuNziG. Do you decline to answer it
Mr. Zilsel. Yes, sir.
Mr. KuNziG (continuing). On the same grounds?
Mr. Zilsel. On the same grounds.
INIr. KuNziG. During your time at Yale were you acquainted with
an individual by the name of Harold T. Woerner — W-o-e-r-n-e-r?
Mr. Zilsel. I don't recall.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, you said you are not a member of the Commu-
nist Party now. You also said that you wouldn't answer with regard
to whether you have ever been a member of the Communist Party.
Now, were you a member of the Communist Party in 1952 ?
Mr. Zilsel. No, sir.
Mr. KuxziG. In 1951 ?
Mr. Zilsel. No.
Mr. KuNziG. In 1950?
]Mr. Zilsel. No.
Mr. KuNziG. In 1949?
Mr. Zilsel. No.
Mr. KuNziG. In 1948?
Mr. Zilsel. I will decline on the grounds I have mentioned.
Mr. KuNziG. Well, now we have pinpointed that just a bit.
What took place in 1948 to change your attitude probably on these
problems or to change any membership you may have had ?
Mr. Zilsel. This question, sir, has implications which I have not
admitted.
Mr. KuxziG. Do you refuse to answer ?
Mr. Zilsel. I believe clearly this question is based on implications
from my refusal to answer previous questions. It's a leading question.
I don't think I should answer that.
1040 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Velde. It is what?
Mr. ZiLSEL. It's a leading question.
Mr. KuNZiG. Oh, it's leading; yes.
Mr. Velde. Let me get this straight, IVIr. Zilsel : This is a committee
of Congress and not a court of law, and we have the duty of investi-
gating communism, any subversive activities and propaganda through-
out the country, and I believe that we have the right to ask leading
questions, and counsel has the right to ask leading questions.
We are trying to lead you into giving us some information, which
apparently you have, that would assist the committee in doing its duty,
imposed by Congress. So the fact it is a leading question is no reason
wliv you shouldn't be required to answer it.
{At this point Mr. Zilsel conferred with Mr. Cobb.)
Mr. Zilsel. Yes, sir ; I understand that.
Mr. KuNziG. Now, Professor Zilsel, were you a member of the Com-
munist Party in 1945 ?
INIr. Zilsel. No, sir.
INIr. KuNziG. You were not ?
Mr. Zilsel. That's correct.
Mr. KuNziG. Were you a member of the Communist Political Asso-
ciation at that time ?
Mr. Zilsel. No, sir.
Mr. KuNziG. Were you a member in 1946 ?
Mr. Zilsel. I would decline to answer that question on the same
grounds, sir.
Mr. KuNziG. How about 1944?
Mr. Zilsel. No, sir.
Mr. KuNziG. Forty-three ?
Mr. Zilsel. No, sir.
Mr. KuNziG. Forty-two?
Mr. Zilsel. No, sir.
Mr. KuxziG. Forty-one?
Mr. Zilsel. No.
Mr. KuNziG. Forty ?
Mr. Zilsel. No.
Mr. KuNziG. Thirty-nine?
Mr. Zilsel. No.
Mr. KuNziG. Prior to the time you came to this country ?
Mr. Zilsel. T was 16 at the time T came to this country.
Mr. KuNziG. Prior to that time were you a member of any youth
group of any kind in Germany ?
Mr. Zilsel. Any youth group ?
INIr. KuNziG. Any Communist youth group ?
Mr. Zilsel. No.
Mr. KuNziG. Were you a member of any Nazi youth group?
Mr. Zilsel. I am Jewish.
Mr. KuxziG. I understand.
You came to this country and between the years of 1046 and
1948 is the period of time j^ou do not desire to answer the question as
to whether you were a member of the Communist Party; is that
correct?
Mr. Zilsel. That is correct.
COMIVrUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1041
Mr. KuNziG. Wliile you were at the University of Wisconsin,
were you active in the group known as the American Youth for
Democracy 'I
Mr. ZiLSEL. Yes ; I was.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know that to be a successor to the Young
Communist League ?
Mr. ZiLsEL. I still don't know it to be a successor to the Yomig
Communist League.
I was a member of a local organization at the University of Wis-
consin at the time when the AYD was formed.
Mr. KuNziG. What year was this in your life ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. I'm not sure that I recall this, but it was a matter — it
is a matter of record. I joined the Wisconsin Liberals Association
very shortly after I came to the University of Wisconsin.
Mr. KuxziG. And what time was that ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. That was in the fall of 1943.
Mr. KuNziG. Fall of 1943 ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Velde. At that time was there an organization known as the
Young Communist League at the University of Wisconsin, to your
knowledge ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. I believe that there was, since I saw notices and things
of that sort, but I have no personal knowledge of it.
]\lr. KuxziG. Who were the officers of AYD at the period you were
affiliated with it ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. At one time, one semester, I was president.
jMr. KuNziG. You were president ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. Yes.
Mr. KuxziG. How about others ?
You don't mind naming names, because, of course, this has nothing
to do with the Communist Party, from your own testimony.
Mr. ZiLSEL. I would like to confer with counsel on this question.
Mr. Velde. I didn't
Mr. Kux'ziG. He wants to confer with his counsel.
Mr. Velde. Oh, all right. Certainly.
(At this point Mr. Zilsel conferred with ]\Ir. Cobb.)
Mr. ZiLSEL. On the advice of counsel, I decline to answer this
question.
Mr. KuxziG. On the grounds that the AYD or names of people
connected with the AYD might incriminate you ?
(At this point Mr. Zilsel conferred with Mr. Cobb. )
Mr. Zilsel. On the grounds that my answer might incriminate me.
Mr. KuxziG. Now, do vou know the provost of your universitv,
Albert E.Wahl? ^ ^'
Is that the way you pronounce it?
Mr. Zilsel. Yes, sir ; I do.
Mr. KuxziG. Now, did you go to Dr. Wahl or did you appear before
Dr. Wahl and tell him that you had been previously a member of the
Communist Party prior to coming to the university ?
Mr. Zilsel. I decline to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. KuxziG. I have here in my hands a newspaper, the Hartford
Courant, April 20, 1953, which says— the head says— "Teacher Ad-
1042 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
mits Being Former Red," and then it goes through the story, dated
April 19, and headed Storrs — S-t-o-r-r-s. The article says:
The teacher —
and it doesn't name the teacher —
voluntarily appeared before university provost, Albert E. Wahl, to tell him of his
former party connection. The teacher said he had been asked to appear before
the Velde committee in Washington. After returning from Washington the
teacher said he had not been called to testify but he expected to be called again.
Are you the person mentioned in this article ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. 1 decline to answer that.
Mr. KuNziG. Well, now, are we to assume in any way. Professor,
that you were willing to admit your membership in the Communist
Party to your university officials but not under oath here before a
committee of your Congress?
Mr. ZiLSEL. I decline.
Mr. Velde. Well, did you appear before the university officials of
your university and tell them of your Communist Party connections
at any time ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. I believe, Mr. Velde, that is the same question Mr.
Kunzig just asked me.
Mr. VELDE. No; he asked you the question in a little different form.
I am just asking you to tell me now if you did appear before the presi-
dent of your university, or any committee composed of the faculty of
the university, and discuss the matter of your being a member of the
Communist Party or former member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. I decline to answer that.
Mr. Kunzig. Is there a difference apparently because you are under
oath here today as against any appearance before professors or
executive heads of the university ?
Mr. ZiLSEL. I decline to answer that.
Mr. Velde. Do you have some questions, Mr. Doyle ?
Mr. Doyle. I think I have 1 or 2.
Professor, I will use your own language in prefacing my first ques-
tion. My first question does have implications to it, and the implica-
tion is that I would infer from your testimony there was a time when
3^ou were a member of the Communist Party.
Now, on that implication, I will assume that there was some reason
why you withdrew, because you have stated you are not now a mem-
ber and the testimony shows the years when you were willing- to state
j'ou were not a member ; but you are a man in a high position, m educa-
tional circles, in our country — that you voluntarily chose to be your
country — and I always compliment a man from another nation when
he does become a citizen of my country, where I had the privilege of
being born ; but my question. Professor, is this : Knowing the purpose
of this committee, which is to investigate subversive activities in this
country, then report back to Congress in the field of legislation what-
ever recommendations we may make, can you help us in this area under-
stand riiore clearly what it is that causes American citizens to join
the Communist Party ?
Now, I am trying to ask it in a w^ay not to put you on a spot, or
not to deliberately put you on a spot. I am not even trying to do it
indirectly. Professor, believe me. I am trying to see if there is an
area, even admitting the implication that at one time you were a
Communist, if that is an implication.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1043
Can you help this committee to understand — have you anything to
offer to us, as your Congressmen, which will help us understand —
what it is about the philosophy of the Communist Party, in whatever
way you learned about it, that causes people to join it, and then to
lea re it?
If tliat is a double-barrel question — now, I am not trying to ask
you a question that will even indirectly try to get you to answer in
any way that would cause you to waive your constitutional privilege —
and I always respect that right — but is there anything you can offer
to us which would help us to understand that area so that in the field
of legislation, which we are obligated to report on to Congress,
we can better understand from you, as a trained mind, what there is
about it ?
Ha\e you any suggestion in the field of legislation, for instance,
for us?
Mr. ZiLSEL. May I consult with my attorney before
Mr, Doyle. Yes.
Mr. ZiLSEL (continuing). I answer?
Mr. Doyle. Yes.
(At this point Mr. Zilsel conferred with Mr. Cobb.)
Mr. Doyle (continuing), Now, before you answer, after having a
conference with your counsel, which we are glad occurs, may I say
this to you — I should have said it before : Unless you invite me so to
do, 1 will not ask you any further questions, other than this one. In
other words, I want you to know that I am not going to
Mr. Zilsel. All right ; thank you, sir.
Mr. Doyle (continuing). Ask any further question of you, unless
you say I am at liberty so to do.
Mr. Zilsel. I would like to first say that I do not admit any of the
implications that started your question, sir, but I would like to, if
I may, help the committee as far as I can on this one question that
you asked me.
I don't think that I have anything to offer in the way of legislative
suggestions. It would be the other part of your question that I would
address myself to.
Xow, here again I cannot, of course, see into the minds of other peo-
ple, and I can only say how it might be conceivable that someone with
a background something like my own might join the Communist
Party and might afterward leave it.
I'm afraid I don't know how helpful this is going to be because
my background is not at all typical.
As you know, as the record shows, I was born in Austria at a time
when Austria was, what I believe can rightly be called, a democracy.
I was a small boy in Austria when this democracy, in the perfectly
legal way, turned into fascism — in a perfectly legal way, I mean, be-
cause it was the legally elected government that, by decree, abolished
parliament and thereafter government, by decree, outlawed political
parties which were opposed to the government, and became a full-
fledged Fascist state.
Now, this was in 1934. It was at that time a native, home-born
Austrian fascism which caused my father's disposition.
Then, in 1938 Austria was invaded by the Nazis and the home-
grown breed of fascism was replaced by the German-Nazi kind, which
30172— 53— pt. 3 6
1044 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
also I knew had come into power in Germany in the perfectly legal
way. Germany also, at the time before that, had been a democracy.
In 1938 we had to leave the country, partly because we were Jewish
and partly because of my father's political opinions, which were not
acceptable to the Xazis; and we then came to this country in the full
belief that this was the country with liberty and that things would
be very cliiferent here.
After having been here for some time — I believe that this is per-
haps an experience common to immigrants who come here with very
high hopes and very high ideals — one begins to feel that perhaps
everything is not quite as perfect in — not in the system of govern-
ment in the United States, but in its operation, as we had thought.
When I came to this country,.! felt that I was coming to the country
of Jefferson and Lincoln. After having been here for some time, I
began to have my doubts as to what extent the precepts of Jefferson
and Lincoln were the ones that were actually being applied in prac-
tice in this country, and one can then come to the feeling that it can
happen here also — that what happened over there in Germany could
also happen here.
I remember reading a book by Sinclair Lewis, oh, somewhere around
that time, entitled "It Can Happen Here."
Well, I think that at that same time in the late 1930's it appeared to
many people that it was the Communists who were putting up the
strongest and perhaps the only successful fight against the growing
fascism in Europe.
Of course, in between then came the period of Nazi-Soviet pact, and
that, of course, changed the outlook considerably.
At the same time, after the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union, it also
began to be at least conceivable that perhaps the Nazi-Soviet pact
had been a move on the part of the Soviets to gain time.
Well, I think I have perhaps outlined why people might feel that
communism was the only alternative to fascism at that time.
I can only say now that I do not feel this way now, whether or not
I ever did — and I'm not saying whether I ever did.
Ah the same time I still feel very strongly that it can happen here.
In fact, I feel that we have already gone a long way toward it hap-
pening here — I mean fascism. I don't think we are there now, but I
am very much afraid and I'm at this time a very puzzled man, because
I don't know what the way to fight this is now.
I believe that the principles of Jefferson and Lincoln are the ones,
but I do not know how^ to put them into practice and how to insure
that they will be adopted.
I'll be very glad to answer any other questions which you may
have
Mr. Doyle. No; I-
Mr. ZiLSEL. On the clarification of this statement.
Mr. Doyle. No ; I think I will stand on my statement.
I thank you for taking the time to answer that question.
Mr. Velde. We do have other witnesses, and we are running behind
schedule now, Mr. Zilsel, but there is one thing I would like to bring
to your attention — perhaps you didn't know about this- — that the Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities was first organized by a House res-
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1045
oiution in 1938, and tlie first investigations which were made liad
to deal with Nazi and espionage activities in the United States. At
that time I presume that you or your father would have been willing
to come before that committee and tell of some of the persecutions
that the Nazis caused you and your family.
Mr. ZiLSEL. Yes, sir.
Mr. Velde. Well, now, there is abundant evidence before this com-
mittee and other administrative agencies of Government and other
investio-atina- committees that the Soviet Government is now a total-
itarian form of government and m some ways snnilar to nazism, and
it is very evident to me — and I think probably Mr. Doyle and other
people — from hearing your testimony that you do have some informa-
tion concerning Communist activities between the years 1946 and 1948.
I really feel you should be just as willing, in view of the fact that
we know the Soviet system and American Communist Party is a part
of the dictatorial, totalitarian system, and you should have the same
interest in giving us information relative to that dictatorship as j'ou
Mould have had in 1938 giving this committee the information con-
cerning Nazi totalitarianism.
I speak in all sincerity about that, and I believe that you owe your
country that duty.
You know that we are legally set up. I am sure an overwhelming
majority of the House of Representatives feel that we should continue
in existence and get these facts relative to Conniumist subversion or
any other type of subversion that exists.
I am wondering if you would care to think this over a while longer
and possibly if you would make up your mind later on to give us any
information that you might have, the committee would certainly be
happy to receive it, Mr. Zilsel.
Mr. Zilsel. I cannot, of course, know how I am going to feel at
some time in the future ; but I think at tiiis time I have to stand on my
previous statement and, in fact, I believe that what the liberty of my
country demands of me is to take the stand I have taken.
Mr. Velde. Yes. Well, that is all right.
There is just one thing I Avant to correct. You might have left the
impression with some members or some of the public that the AYD
was not a Communist organization. Time and time again we have
received evidence that the American Youth for Democracy was a
successor to the Young Communist League and was approximately the
same membership as the Young Connnunist League, with some excep-
tions, of course, and you have stated, I believe, that the AYD was not
a Communist organization. I just want to call j^our attention to the
fact that the Attorney General, this committee and other bodies who
are responsible to the American people have designated that organiza-
tion as a Communist organization.
Is there any reason why this witness should be continued longer,
Mr. Counsel?
Mv. KuNziG. No, sir.
Mr. Velde. If not, the witness is excused, and the committee will
stand in recess until 2 : 30.
(Thereupon, at 12 : 42 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene
at 2 : 80 p. m., the same day.)
1046 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
AFTERNOON SESSION
(At the hour of 3 p. m., of the same day, the proceedings were
resumed, the following committee member being present: Hon. Kit
Clardy.)
Mr. Clardy. Are you ready, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. KuNziG. Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Clardy. Call your first witness.
Mr. KuNziG. Professor Amdur, would you be sworn, sir ?
Mr. Clardy. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will
give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Amdur. I do, sir.
TESTIMONY OF ISADORE AMDUR, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,
STUART C. RAND
Mr. KuNZTG. Do you wish counsel ?
Mr. Amdur. Yes.
Mr. KuNziG. Since you are represented by counsel, would counsel
please state his name and address for the record ?
Mr. Rand. Stuart C. Rand. I am a member of the law firm of
Choate, Paul & Stewart, 30 State Street, Boston, Mass.
Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, you will remember Mr. Rand was
before this committee this morning and so is familiar with the rules
of the committee.
Mr. Clardy. Thank you.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your full name and address, please,
sir?
Mr. Amdur. Isadore Amdur, 24 Sacramento Street, Cambridge,
Mass.
Mr. KuNziG. What is your present employment, Professor Amdur ?
Mr. Amdur. I am a professor of physical chemistry at the Massa-
chusetts Institute of Technology.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you state for the committee your educational
background in chronological order ?
Mr. Amdur. I was educated in the public schools of Pittsburgh.
I went to the University of Pittsburgh, where I received my bachelor's
degree in February 1930, my master's degree in August of that year,
and a Ph. D. degree in June of 1932.
Mr. KuNziG. Does that complete the formal education ?
Mr. Amdur. Yes, that completes the formal education.
Mr. KuNziG. I think at this point, Mr. Chairman, we might let the
record show that the committee consists of a subcommittee of one.
Mr. Clardy. The record will so show that we are sitting as a sub-
committee here this afternoon.
Mr. KuNziG. AVould you now state for the committee your occupa-
tional employment background ?
Mr. Amdur. Yes, sir. Following the receipt of my Ph. D. degree
I was a postdoctor and fellow at the Massachusetts Institute of Tech-
nology. I was appointed instructor in 1934. I was promoted to assist-
ant professor in 1940, to associate professor in 1945, and to full pro-
fessor in 1951.
Mr. KuNziG. That is what you are today ?
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1047
Mr. Amdur. That is what I am to date.
Mr. KuNziQ. Profess(>r, have you at any time been a member of
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Amdur. I have.
Mr. KuNziG. Would you give the dates and times that you were a
member ?
Mr. Amdur. To the best of my recollection, I believe that I joined
the party in 1938 and I believe that I left the party around 1944.
Mr. KuNziG. Professor Amdur, to the best of your ability would you
describe to the subcommittee what caused you to join the Communist
Party?
Mr. Amdur. It is a bit difficult to reconstruct at this distance all of
the reasons. I can think of some of them. One very strong reason was
a feeling of inner rage that the situation in Europe in which nazism
was rampant — I am of Jewish extraction — I felt that personally some-
what deeply. I had the impression that at that time the western
democracies, if you will, were not doing much to stem that. I could
find no evidence of it. It seemed as though Russia was trying to do
something about it. That was my primary motivation.
There was perhaps a secondary reason of this type. My education
came very rapidly and intensely. I had devoted a great deal of my
time to studies and practically nothing to outside activities. I was
relatively immature in anything except my scientific work. I think at
this time I began to become aware of the world outside chemistry and
I believe there was some sort of feeling to find out what things were
about. The primary motive, I think, was nazism.
Mr. Clardy. About how old were you at that time ?
Mr. Amdur. When I joined I would have been 28.
Mr. KuNziG. You say you became aware of the world outside and
you joined the party in 1938. You were certainly aware in August of
1939 of the Hitler-Stalin pact and although you were present this
morning and heard some of the questions, will you tell us how you were
able to stay a Communist in line with what you have just testified to?
Mr. Amdur. I think there were possibly two reasons. One was that
I have a tendency as a scientist to proceed very slowly when any ques-
tion comes up and when any point is in doubt it has been my training
all my life to study it carefully and not in haste and to try to arrive
at a conclusion. At that time it had been stated by members of the
party and others that the purpose of this pact was to gain time for
Russia, that by having time in which she could be guaranteed of no
hostilities she would be better able to prepare for what seemed to be
imminent, mainlj^^ a clash between Germany and Russia, and I think
I felt that I might well wait out a reasonable time to see if that was
true. I think that must have been my point of view at the time, as
nearly as I can remember.
Mr. Clardy. In other words, the party's line was that Mr. Stalin
was swindling Mr. Hitler in this agreement ?
Mr. Amdur. I think that was just about it.
Mr. Clardy. You accepted that ?
Mr. Amdur. Yes, at the time.
Mr. KuNziG. What cell or group of the Communist Party did you
first become a member of ?
Mr. Amdur. At MIT.
1048 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. KuNzio. Is tluit the same group about wliicli testimony was
given this morning^
Mr. Amdur. That was one oi the groups mentioned this morning,
yes, sir.
Mr. KuNzia. What other people, to the best of your knowledge, were
members of that group when you were a member and whom you know
to have been Communists ?
Mr. Amdur. There was Mr. Martin who testified this morning; Mr.
Levinson.
Mr. Clardy. Do you know his first name ?
Mr. Amdur. Norman Levinson.
Mr. KuNZiG. Anybody else?
Mr. Amdur. Mr. Arguimbau.
Mr. Clardy. And his first name ?
Mr. Amdur. Lawrence Arguimbau. Then there was Mr. Struik and
Mr. Gelbardt. I cannot spell that last name. I think it is probably
G-e-1-b-a-r-d-t.i
]\Ir. KuNziG. You knew all these men to be Communists ?
ISIr. Amdur. I knew all these men in that I met with them at one
time or another.
]\Ir. Clardy. Do you know Mr. Gelbardt's first name ?
Mr. Amdur. I do not recall it.
Mr. Clardy. And the other person you named ?
Mr. Amdur. Dirk Struik. Then there was Edwin Blaisdell and
Nathan Rosen. I tliink Rosen's first name was Nathan. At the mo-
ment those are all that I can think of.
Mr. KuNziG. They were members of the group at MIT ?
Mr. Amdur. That is correct.
Mr. KuNziG. ^Y[mt position did Rosen hold at MIT ?
Mr. Amdur. I don't know his exact title. He was in the department
of physics.
Mr. KuNziG. Is he there any more ?
Mr. Amdur. No, he is not.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know his present whereabouts ?
Mr. Amdur. I have heard he is in the State of Israel.
INIr. KuNziG. Do you know the present whereabouts of Edwin
Blaisdell?
Mr. Amdur. I believe he is with the du Pont Co., and which one of
the branches I do not know.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you, after being a member of the MIT group,
become a member of any larger group in the Boston area?
Mr. Amdltr. The IVIIT group met some period during the time when
I was a member with a group from Harvard. There may have been a
sprinkling of a few other people from other localities, but predomi-
nantly it was a Harvard and MIT group.
Mr. KuNziG. Can you give us the names of members of this group
whom you knew to be Communists over and above those whom you have
already mentioned from MIT ?
Mr. Amdur. There was Wendel Furry.
Mr. Clardy. We are talking about the Harvard group?
Mr. Amdur. That is correct, sir.
]Mr. Clardy. Proceed.
IMr. Amdur. Carl Grossenbacher.
' Correct name of this iiuli\ iclual is Abe Gelbart.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1049
Mr. Clardy. Is that Carl spelled with a "K" or with a "C^' ?
Mr. AaiDUR. I don't know, sir. Then there was Marcus Singer.
Mr. KuxziG. Is he an optometrist '(
Mr. Amdur. No; I think his profession was zoology or something
like that, something related to that.
INIr. Ki'xziG. Do yon know his present whereabouts ?
]VIr. Amdur. No, I do not. I do not know whether he is still in
Cambridge or Boston.
]Mr. KuNziG. Were there any others ?
Mr. Amdur. I cannot think of others from Harvard at this point.
Mr. KuxziG. Do yon know the present whereabouts of Carl Gros-
senbacher ?
Mr. Amdur. No.
]\Ir. Clardy. "\Miat was the name of that Harvard group, or did it
have a name ?
Mr. Amdur. I am not sure it had a name outside of the Harvard
group, no more than the MIT group had a name outside of the MIT
group.
Mr. Clardy. What did you at MIT identify yourselves as ?
Mr. Amdur. MIT group, when we spoke about it.
]VIr. Clardy. You all knew each other as fellow Communists and
you didn't need any further identification ?
jVIr. A]N[DUR. That is right.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Howard Allen Bridgman?
Mr. A]N[DUR. No.
Mr. KuxziG. Or Eichard Edsall ?
Mr. Amdur. I don't know if he was in Harvard. I knew of Richard
Edsall.
Mr. KuxziG. Did vou know him as a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Amdur. I don't believe I ever attended a meeting with him in
that sense.
Mr. Kux-^ziG. Well, in any other sense or in your opinion was he a
member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Amdur. In my opinion he would have been.
Mr. KuxziG. Do you know anything about his present whereabouts ?
I believe he is the man who fled to Canada after Philbrick's testimony.
Mr. Amdur. I have heard that.
Mr. KuxziG. You have mentioned the MIT group and the larger
Harvard group with which you were associated. Was there any other
group or cell of the Communist Party with which you were associated ?
Mr. Amdur. So far as I can tell those were the two groups.
Mr. KuxziG. Did you attend any meetings or have anything to do
with a professional group or a group of professors or the lawyers,
teachers, doctors, and so forth, in the Boston area ?
Mr. Amdur. I do not believe so.
Mr. KuxziG. Are there any other members of the party whom you
knew to be membei*s of the party other than those that you have
already mentioned, not necessarily in just the MIT or Harvard group,
but in any group?
Mr. AamuR. I think my acquaintance was predominnntlv among
that oTonp and mv recollection would be of inst those peonle. I believe.
l\fr. KuxzTG. Did vou ever do nnv work for the Government of the
TTnifed vStates?
1050 COIVIMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. AiMDUR. Yes, at MIT. My salary was paid by MIT but the
contracts I believe were under some sort of Government sponsorship.
Mr, KuNziG. What type of work was that and what part of the
Government sponsored it ?
Mr. Amdur. It was during the war and I believe there were three
distinct projects on which I worked. I believe one was for the Office
of Scientific Research and Development, known as OSKD.
Mr. KuNziG. What year was that when you worked for it?
Mr. Amdur. From early 1943 into about the middle of 1944.
Mr. KuNZiG. In other words, according? to your testimony that was
while you were still a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Amdur. That is correct.
Mr. KuNZiG. What was your next Government employment?
Mr. A3IDUR. I worked durinc: the same period part time on a project
under the sponsorship of the Bureau of Navy Ordnance. I think I
have that wrong. It was the Department of the Navy, the Ordnance
Bureau.
Mr. KuNZiG. And that was also while you were a member of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Amdur. That is correct, and then, about 1944 to late 1945 I
was working on the project for the Army Engineer Corps which I
think was known as the Manhattan project in that part of the project
located in MIT.
Mr. KuNZiG. Were you ever cleared by the Navy on the Manhattan
project or any other group when you worked for the Government in
order to handle classified materials?
Mr. Amdur. I don't know exactly what the specifications of the
clearance was. I was cleared to work on this project.
Mr. KuNziG. You were cleared to work on the Manhattan project?
Mr. Amdur. That is right, or so I was told.
Mr. KuNziG. Were you ever questioned by Government officials
with regard to your Communist activity, whether you were a member
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Amdur. I was never questioned. We filled out regular forms
which I submitted.
Mr. KuNziG. Did those forms contain any questions or ask you for
any information as to membership in the Communist Party?
Mr. A:mdur. Those forms did not ask about membership in the
Communist Party.
Mr. KuNziG. And that was for the Manhattan project?
Mr. Amdur. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Clardt. No question that tied in with possible party member-
ship?
Mr. Amdur. I cannot be too sure about the specific question. It
was on one of the forms that I filled out, there was a question whether
the person who filled out the form belonged to an organization advo-
cating the violent overthrow of the Government.
Mr. Clardy. That is what I had in mind.
Mr. Amdur. That question was there, but to the best of my recollec-
tion there was no question saying, "Are you a member of the Commu-
nist Party?"
Mr. Clardy. The question you described as being there is the one
we are, of course, familiar with.
Mr. Amdur. Yes.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1051
Mr. Clardy. Did you answer that question ?
Mr. Amdur. I did answer that question.
Mr. Clardy. You may take up, Counsel.
Mr. KuNziG. How did you answer that question ?
Mr. Amdur. I answered that question in the negative.
Mr. KuNziG. You felt at that time that the Communist Party was
not seeking to overthrow the Government of the United States by
force ?
Mr. Amdur. I sincerely felt that and the group with which I had
been associating had never indicated in any way that that was other
than the situation.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you feel that way today ?
Mr. Amdur. I do not feel that way today.
Mr. Clardy. You probably then at that time did not study the
program of the Communist Party very carefully, did you?
Mr. Amdur. Mr. Clardy, my activities in the Communist Party
involved a minimum of study on my part. I was first and last, well,
I don't know about the middle, a scientist devoted to and devoting
as much time as I could to my scientific activities. Not only was I
working for the war effort but doing some teaching and helping
students on their graduate work. My attendance was sporadic and
I was perfectly willing to believe what people in our group were
saying, namely, that if any change in the Government of the United
States were to come about it would be by constitutional means.
Mr. Clardy. Would it be fair to say then that your interest in the
Semitic angle or the anti-Semitic angle might have somewhat blinded
you so that you did not probe as a scientist would very far beneath
the surface ?
Mr. Amdur. I think that was part of the reason and the other part
was that I had a busy life and there was not time to probe into it and
obviously I did not have the inclination because I put the other things,
including family, first.
Mr. Clardy. You fell for the line then, to use the vernacular ?
Mr. Amdur. Yes.
Mr. Clardy. Proceed, counsel.
]Mr, KuNziG. "Were you ever a member of the World Federation of
Scientific Workers ?
Mr. Amdur. I don't know if I was a member of the World Federa-
tion because I don't know what constitutes that.
Mr. KuxziG. What were you a member of ?
Mr. Amdur. Of the American Federation of Scientific Workers,
which I believe had some affiliation with the group you mentioned.
Mr. KuNziG. Just what was your function in that group ?
Mr. Amdur. Outside of being a member ?
Mr. KuNziG. Yes, as a member.
Mr. Amdur. I am not sure that I understand the question, sir.
What were my activities ?
Mr. KuNziG. Yes.
Mr. Amdur. One of the things in which I was interested while in
the group was in helping UNESCO get started and developed. I was
in addition interested in the general aims of the organization which
was to study the social implications of science, namely the implication
of the impact of science on the nonscientific public at large, the pro-
1052 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
fessional status of scientists, -whether their general compensation was
adequate. I believe, however, that my major interest was in UNESCO.
Mr. KuxziG. I believe you were also connected with the American
Academy of Arts and Sciences ?
Mr. Amdur. Yes.
JNIr. KuNZiG. I do not mean to imply anything against the American
Academy of Arts and Sciences. Did you have any particular function
in that organization or in any committee?
Mr. Amduk. Yes, I was both a member and chairman of the inter-
national relations committee. I believe for some time it was known
as the UNESCO committee. I was also secretary of the American
Academy of Arts and Sciences for several years.
Mr. Clardy. You said the UNESCO committee ?
Mr. Amdttr. Yes, of the committee on UNESCO.
Mr. Clardy. What was the group seeking to do ?
Mr. Amdur. During that period there was something of a battle
in the opinion of certain scientists to get a proper recognition of the
importance of science in the UNESCO organization. As originally
contemplated it w^as to be an organization known as UNACO which
had no science in it whatever, and one of the things that Iwas inter-
ested in was seeing tliat if this organization was to deal with inter-
national culture activities that science be not left out.
Mr. Clardy. Then it was part of the Communist Party program to
see that that was done ?
Mr. Amdur. I don't know that that is a proper statement, sir.
Mr. Clardy. "Well, how would you phrase it?
Mr. Amdur. I believe that it was part of anybody's program who
believed in UNESCO. ;My activities in UNESCO were completely
independent of any association witli the Communist Party. I believe
today that UNESCO is a very fine organization.
Mr. Clardy. We differ there, and radically.
Mr. Amdur. I am sorry. I do believe that UNESCO is an organiza-
tion doing a useful job.
Mr. Clardy. I will have to take you to the woodshed after this is
over.
Mr. Amdur. I hope you won't be too hard. That was why I worked
so hard. It was not with my association with the Communist Party.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever know somebody by the name of Arnold
as being a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Amdur. I did know a Mr. Arnold who was at MIT.
Mr. KuNziG. Was he a graduate student?
Mr. Amdur. Yes, during that period.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know his full name?
Mr. Amdur. I believe his first name was Kenneth Arnold.
Mr. KuNziG. You knew him to be a member of the Communist
Party ?
Mr. Amdur. That is correct.
Mr. KuNZTG. Do you Imow his whereabouts at the present time?
Mr. Amdur. No.
Mr. KuNziG. Tlie question that we had discussed earlier this morn-
ing with Professor Martin is the question I am about to propound to
you now, to see that your entire relationship with the Communist
Party was a secret relationship.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1053
Mr. Amdur. Those of us who were members did not publicize the
fact. I think the word "secret" as I heard it used some this morning
has a more sinister connotation than it had at that time. Our chief
interest in not revealing our association, I believe, was an under-
standable one, to trj^ to keep our jobs. We were young at that time.
1 joined while I was still an instructor. We knew that it was un-
popular to be a member of the Communist Party and I think most of
us felt that if it became public knowledge, that our scientific careers
which were far more important to us would be in jeopardy, and I be-
lieve that was the chief reason that we did not want it divulged.
JNIr. Clardy. Is it fair to say you concealed that membership from
public gaze, at least?
Mr. Amdur. That is correct.
]\Ir. KuNziG. Wasn't it in realitv the decision of the Communist
Party to have its members use aliases rather than necessarily a per-
sonal decision?
Mr. Amdur. I am not aware of whether that decision was ever for-
mallv handed to me as such.
Mr. KuNziG. Did you have an alias ?
Mr. Amdur. I did. May I qualify that, sir ?
Mr. KuNziG. Yes, go right ahead.
Mr. A31DUR. When I joined the party I filled out some sort of card
on Avhich a name was signed which was not mine. I was not known
by any other name than my name with the people with whom I asso-
ciated in the party.
Mr. Clardy. Who selected the alias on the card ?
Mr. Amdur. I am sure I must have.
Mr. Clardy. With anj^ prompting or help ?
Mr. Amdur. There I haven't any idea of it at all.
Mr. Clardy. You don't remember that ?
Mr. Amdur. No.
Mr. KuNziG. Was this all like some schoolboy's game to you, and
I don't mean that in an impertinent fashion, when you joined?
]Mr. Amdur. I don't think it was in that light or vein. I think it
was more in the vein of intellectual activity trying to find out what
some of the answers were that were troubling young men in what I
believed were troubled times at that period. It was not a childish
thing. We were serious about it, but none of us, I am sure, were con-
spiratorial about it.
Mr. KuNziG. I believe you have an interesting theory as to why
mathematicians and scientists got into this. I hope you will express
it to the subcommittee.
Mr. Amdur. I hope this will be construed as my personal theory.
Mr. Clardy. It will be. just as my remark about IJNESCO must be
considered as my own. I don't know what the other members of the
committee tliink about that. To me it is something worse than use-
less, but I may be overruled.
Mr. Amdur. My theory about the scientists that are in UNESCO is
the following, I believe
Mr. KuxziG. You mean, the Communist Party? You are not con-
fusing those two when you said UNESCO ?
Mr. Amdur. I hope that is correct in the record.
Mr. Clardy. I am glad that you are taking this good-naturedly.
This is so different from the other hearings. Go ahead.
^te'^
1054 COaiMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Amdur. I believe that a relatively large number of scientists
joined the Communist Party partly because their training and activ-
ity makes it natural for them to do so. A scientist, by nature, is a
radical person. He is inclined to question everything, to revolt
against that which has gone before if in his opinion it does not jibe
with what he thinks the present facts are, and I believe quite sincerely
but personally that scientists are more prone to go into an unpopular
organization such as the Communist Party in an attempt to find out
what it is all about, and it is my belief that the most radical of the
natural scientists or of scientists are probably the mathematicians. I
might allow room for philosophers, I don't Icnow, but the mathema-
ticians I believe would come first in that category. I believe the
physicists are a close second and the chemists and biologists and so
forth would bring up the rear.
Mr. Clardt. Most of my mathematical friends claim that the legal
profession is very inexact, but I thought they would be more con-
servative.
Mr. Amour. I believe those two views are not inconsistent. I
merely want to say this beyond the fact that scientists are continually
questioning and by tradition are not afraid to say that something is
not so. In fact, if they do not do so they are not honest scientists.
Mr. Clardt. You are saying something that contradicts something
you said earlier. You said you fell for this phony line and didn't
make this inquiry that a scientist would.
Mr. Amdur. 1 believe at the time I joined I was not as good a
scientist as I am now.
Mr. Clardt. You think you have improved ?
Mr. Amdur. I hope so.
]Mr. KuNziG. This questioning and continual questioning which you
referred to the way scientists would do, how long must this go on?
With you it M-as 6 years. This morning with another witness it was
8 years. Now in an undercover organization does it take that long
to find out what the Communist Party stands for ?
Mr. Amdur. No, I don't think it should take that long and I think
if I had given it my full time and full attention and full activity I
would doubt I would need more than a year to find out.
Mr. Clardt. What shocked you into sensibility?
Mr. Amdur. It was not a shock. I left the party, as I may have
indicated, because in the first place I was quite fed up with dogmat-
icism of the party. I knew that all of the black and white which the
party taught was not all black and white.
Mr. Clardt. You rebelled against having the line told to you?
Mr. Amdur. Having the line dictated to me, and in addition the
United States was doing things to fight nazism and fascism much
better than even the Connnunists said they would at the time that I had
joined. I had a family that was beginning to grow up and my scien-
tific work, and the combination of all those. It was not a sharp re-
bellion.
Mr. Clardt. It just faded out.
Mr. Amdur. Yes.
Mr. Clardt. We have heard other witnesses who put it the same
way.
Mr. Amdur. That was so in my case; yes.
CORCVrUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1055
Mr. KuNziG. I would like to ask you a most important question.
What is your opinion at the present time as an ex-Communist and as a
person who knows the Conmiunist way of life and thought whether
professors who are today Communists should teach m the universities
and schools of America ?
Mr. Amdur. I believe that at present, active Communists should not
be permitted to so teach.
Mr. KuxziG. If you were in charge of appointing professors and
teachers, would you appoint a Communist to a teaching position?
Mr. Amdtje. 1 would not. Might I add some things to my statem^ent
just before that?
Mr. KuNziG. Certainly.
Mr. Amdur. I believe they should not teach and although it has not
been brought into the question, I believe, however, that the termination
of teaching appointments for such people should be left to the insti-
tutions rather than some outside agency.
Mr. Clardy. I assure you this committee has never attempted to
invade that problem.
Mr. Amdur. I did not have this committee in mind when I said that.
Mr. Clardy. No ; but a great many other abusive witnesses here hav6
not only insinuated, but have accused.
Mr, Amdur. I was not thinking of this committee, but of govern-
ment in the broad sense. I believe that that particular situation can
be best taken care of most democratically and healthfully by having
the institution do it.
Mr. Clardy. Do you agree that the institutions are handicapped in
their ability to develop the facts that this committee can develop?
Mr. AiSCDUR. That is right.
jMr. Clardy. Would you not agree that this committee performs a
useful function when it discloses those facts so that the institutions of
higher learning may use them for the purpose we are talking about?
Mr. Amdur. When a committee such as this discloses facts indicat-
ing current membership or recent membership ?
Mr. Clardy. Or still sympathy with.
Mr. Amdur. I might qualify that because the word "sympathy" is
quite a general one, but if I might limit my statement to actual mem-
bership, but to tlie extent that this committee reveals present member-
ship in the Communist Party and indicates that to the institutions,
I would think it serves a useful purpose.
Mr. Clardy. Would you say that because membership in the Com-
munist Party is utterly incompatible with academic freedom and with
the things that a teacher must and should possess if he is to teach
honestly.
Mr. Amdur. I think the present membership would be incompatible.
Mr. Clardy. That is what I had in mind.
Mr. Amdur. Yes.
Mr. Clardy. Proceed.
Mr. KuNziG. I would like to come back to the discussion we had
a moment ago about the university having any way of knowing. So
many times it is said — and one reads in the newspapers lately — that
the college or the university itself can handle the situation alone, and
I would like to go one step further than what we have done so far
and ask you whether it isn't a fact that the college has almost no
1056 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Avav of kiiowiii<i-. For example, if you were not testifying today,
foiild any college know of yonr activities, particularly when they
were so secret ^
Mr. Amdur. They did not know, I believe, of my activities at the
time I was a member. If I were a member now with the greater
awareness of the })ublic in general, I am not sure that they would be
so ignorant of it, but I believe that you do have a valid point that
in general the administrative officials of the institution do not pry
into these things and in general they vv'ould not Icnow. But there
is a big difference in the awareness at the present time compared to
some.years ago.
Mr. KuNziG. Don't you feel, though. Professor Amdur, that be-
cause of the increased public interest and because of the attitude of
the ]>ublic today toward Communists that a present-day Communist
M'ouid be a luuulred times more careful to conceal his identity if he
were iii a university than perhaps some years ago.
Mr. A]\n>tTE. I believe it is a possibility, but there is a paradox
there. If he conceals his activities too successfully, I believe he will
not function in the way he thinks he ought to function.
Mr. KuxziG. In which way do you mean that he ought to function ?
Mr. Amdur. Perha])S to arouse o]:)iuion in the in.stitution for what-
ever cause he thinks is important at the time, which I believe now
in general would be an unpopular cause.
Mr. Clardy. Alger Hiss concealed his Communist connections for a
great many years and he had accomplislied a great deal; did he not?
Mr. Amour. Yes.
Mr. Clardy. I think that is what counsel had in mind.
Mr. Amdur. I think in general that the administrative officials
v."oidd not be well equipped to find out.
Mr. Clardy. If this committee had not ])ursued Alger Hiss as it
did, don't you think that he probably could still be continuing in
the Government's service, at least up until tlie 20th of January of
this year?
Mr. Amdur. I think it is possible; yes, sir.
Mr. KuNziG. I was going to ask, at the time you wei-e a Communist
and a professor, just how would the university have gotten any evi-
dence to prove tliat you were a Communist if, for example, they were
ti-ying to check on such things?
Mr. Amdur. At that time I believe it would have been very difficult
for them to have done so.
Mr. KuNziG. It would have been virtually impossible for them.
Mr. Amdur. Essentially so ; yes.
Mr. Clardy. Would you tell us a little more about the particular
nature of the work that you were engaged in on the tliree projects that
you named ^
Mr. Amdur. Yes, sir. 1 have to be cautious.
Mr. Clardy. Don't reveal any secrets that will endanger the na-
tional security; but, with that limitation, tell us what you can.
Mr. Amdur. Yes, sir. Two of the projects in which I was active
concurrently — that is, from 1933 to mid-191:4 — were both engaged
with the pre|)aration of scientific optical material for use in optical
instruments in the form of lenses, prisms, and such.
The other project, the Manhattan project, was not involved witli
the activities that one reads about in the newspapers, but the sort with
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1057
which I was connected was involved in producing materials which
would then be sent to another part used in the preparation of fission-
able material. I am trying not to say too much because I don't know
what is declassified.
Mr. Clardy. We could say that it Avas in the main a highly classi-
fied type of work.
Mr. Amuuk. The Manhattan project was highly classified, and I
believe the other two carried relatively lower classifications, but they
were all classified.
Mr. Clardy. I do not think we have explored this, and I would
like to get into it briefly. Were you brought into the party through
solicitation from some other person, from someone else, or did you
approach someone on your own behalf?
5lr. Amdltr. I did not approach but I was becoming interested, not
in the party as such but in the things I spoke about which caused me
to join the party. I was, I believe, formally brought into the party
by an individual asking me if I was ready to join, and I said "Yes."
Mr. Clardy. Was that one of this group that you have named ?
Mr. Amdur. It was.
]\Ir. Clardy. And when he approached you he did so, I presume,
after some exploratory conA^ersations to discover how far you had
drifted in that direction?
]\rr. Amdur. That is correct.
Mr. Clardy. He thought you and the time were ripe. He popped
the question, so to speak?
Mr. Amdur. Popped the question, and he had very little of a job
on his hands.
Mr. Clardy. Did you have to pay any dues or membership fees?
yiv. Amdur. There were dues. I don't know what they were, ex-
cept that there Avas some sort of scale and they were not very great.
There was a scale based on salary.
Mr. Clardy. That is what I am wondering about. Many of them
have testified there was a sort of income-tax Icat on members of a
certain percentage, is that right?
Mr. Amdur. Yes ; something of the sort.
Mr. Clardy. Do you remember Avhat percent your tax Avas.
Mr. Amdur. I do not. At the time I joined I was relatiA^ely low
in the academic ladder, and I do not think my dues averaged more
than about $2 per month for the Avhole time I was in, and at the be-
ginning it might have been less than that.
Mr. Clardy. You Avere lirought in, you say, because you Avere men-
tally ripe, but through the solicitation of someone else (
Mr. Amdur. Yes.
Mr. Clardy. After you became a member, did you perform the
same process on someone else to bring them into the ring?
]Mr. Amdur. I am happy to say that it is my sincere belief that I
haA^e never brought another individual into the Communist Party.
My participation was a completely individual affair.
]Mr. Clardy. After you became a member, did you attend regular
meetings of some sort?
Mr. Amdur. Meetings Avere scheduled nominally about every
'2 Aveeks. In a group of this sort the discipline expected for meeting
attendance was not very great, and I believe the number of times I
played hookey probably exceeded the number of times I attended.
1058 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
For example, our family was in the habit of going to Maine in the
summer, where we rented a place and they would go there; we would
go for a good 3 months out of the year, and I was never in a hurry
to let ayone know just when I was coming back, so that the number
of attendances per year was not very great, and I think this might
in part — and I don't mean it to explain it completely — this might
explain why I was in for a relatively long period of time.
Mr. Clardy. You were a sort of backslider.
Mr. Amdur. I was not what the Communists would call a very good
member.
Mr. Clardt. Would you say that the others whom you have named
were probably more responsive to the party demands ?
Mr. Amdur. Some were and some were not. I think you will find
the complete spectrum among the group.
Mr. Clardy. You have mentioned Wendell Furry. He has ap-
peared before us. You may have read something of his appearance.
Mr. Amdur. I am aware of it.
Mr. Clardy. You are aware of the stand and the position. he has
taken before this committee ?
Mr. Amdur. That is correct.
Mr. Clardy. Is there any doubt that the Wendell Furry who ap-
peared before this committee is the same Wendell Furry whom you
have described in the Communist Party?
Mr. Amdur. There is no doubt at all.
Mr. Clardy. Have you attended closed meetings with him, meetings
of the party ?
Mr. Amdur. I have attended meetings with him during the period
in which I was in.
Mr. Clardy. Did he take any particularly outstanding part in those
meetings or was he just one of the boys?
Mr. Amdur. I don't recall that his activity was any more predomi-
nant than any of the rest of us.
Mr. Claijdy. At those meetings did you discuss the objectives and
the line that was to be taken by the party ?
Mr. Amdur. Those were discussed.
Mr. Clardy. So you discussed, among yourselves, how best to pro-
laote the interests of the Communist Party within the circles within
which you traveled ?
Mr. Amdur. That is correct.
Mr. Clardy. Without any bad implication at all, would it be fair
to say that you and the other members of the group, including Mr.
Furry, were doing what you could in your way to promote the interest
of the party in this Nation?
Mr. Amdur. That is correct, but I would like to qualify that by
saying that those particular activities were not contrary to the inter-
ests of the Nation at that time.
Mr. Clardy. That is, of course, your interpretation.
Mr. Amdur. I want it on the record as such ; yes.
Mr. Clardy. Would it not be fair to say that as you viewed it you
did not think so.
Mr. Amdur. That is correct, as I viewed it I at no time felt that I
was doing any disloyal thing to the country. Unpopular, yes; dis-
loyal, no.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1059
Mr. Clardt. I asked you a question earlier and I will ask you to
repeat the answer because I want to expand the question a little bit.
Did vou at any time read Communist literature so that you thoroughly
understood the Marxist theory of how the proletariat would eventu-
ally take over ?
Mr. Amdfr. I would like to answer that question in two parts. I
did read Communist literature. I found it virtually impossible to
understand a very large part of it. I don't know how to describe it,
but much of it is completely incomprehensible. Perhaps it could be
referred to as doubletalk. One could take from it whatever meaning
he wishes.
Mr. Clardy. And sometimes no meaning at all.
Mr. Amdur. And sometimes no meaning at all, and I believe one of
the greatest chores during my period in the party was the reading of
this literature and the attempt to understand it.
Mr. Clardy. I presume you have read Das Kapital so that you know
the economic theories or nonsense that Karl Marx advanced?
Mr. Amdur. I have read it.
Mr. Clardy. Of course, if you were in court and you were in con-
tempt, that would probably be one of the worst sentences that I could
impose upon you, the reading of that book. I have read it and I will
confess it is very turgid. You did read it and found it most difficult?
Mr. Amdur. Yes.
Mr. Clardy. Didn't it occur to you that implicit in the Communist
doctrine was this theory that socialism could only live when the over-
throw of other forms of government was accomplished.
Mr. Amdur. Any time such a statement occurred and was discussed,
and I would like to remind you if I may that at that particular period
the Communist Part,\- was not as unpopular in the public mind.
Mr. Clardy. It was with me.
Mr. Amdur. In the general public mind. Russia was our ally.
When such questions were discussed those who were explaining them
would point out that this could be interpreted in the sense of meaning
that when the situation became such that one might expect a violent
overthrow, then the normal legislative bodies of the country would
change the form of government which I believe would be called social-
ism. That was the official explanation and I believe that people like
myself wanted to believe it and it was not inconsistent with the way
the party was acting during much of that period.
Mr. Clardy. Looking back on it, don't you think you were a little
naive in accepting that explanation ?
Mr. Amdur. I don't like that word myself and I don't like to call
myself names, but I think I was both naive and stupid.
Mr. Clardy. I appreciate your agreeing with that because it has
appeared to me after listening to quite a number of witnesses that the
human mind is capable of almost anything. We can convince our-
selves of almost anything if we want to believe it. You wanted to
believe it, as I understand, because you thought that the Communists
were doing something for the Jewish people and to fight anti-Semi-
tism, as I understand it.
Mr. Amdur. That is correct.
Mr. Clardy. Do you have any further questions, Mr. Kunzig ?
30172— 53— pt. 3 7
1060 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr. Ki'xzk;. Yes, sir. 1 Wiuited to ask this : You said that at about
1944 and thereafter you sort of sUitfed off from the Communist Party?
Mr. Amouk. Yes.
Mr. KuxziG. When you worked on the Manhattan project, were you
still, in your own mind, a Communist at that time or had you com-
pletely linished the project of slufHng off?
Mr. Amdur. To the best of my belief I had finished, and my belief
may be in error, but I sincerely wish to state that it is my honest belief
that at that tii le I had finished wnth it.
Mr. KuxziG. I would like to ask you this: Have you furnished the
information that you have given today in your testimony to any other
branch of (lovernment prior to your subpena to come before this
committee ?
Mr. A:Mi>rK. No; I have not.
Mr. KuxziG. This is the first time that this material, this infor-
mation, has been made })ublic?
Mr. Amdfr. Tliat is correct.
Mv. IvixziG. If you were so asked in the future to furnish it to any
other branch of the (xovernment, I assume you would be w^illing to do so.
Mr. Amdur. That is correct.
Mr. KuxzTG. That is all I have.
Mr. Clardy. Is there anything else that you can summon up that
you think might help this connnittep in its work?
Mr. Amdur. I hope, sir, you won't think me impertinent if I say
one thing.
^Ir. Ci.ARDY. Not at all.
Mr. Amdur. I think this committee might serve a very useful pur-
pose if it believes, as I hope it does, that there are relatively few active
Conununists present in institutions of higher learning. Say so
forcibly.
Mr. Ci.ARiiY. We have said that quite a few times but we have added
to that statement this fact, that just as one bad aj^ple in a barrel can
spoil tlie whole barrel, even a fcAv Communists in our educational
system can work havoc with our young minds. We agree with you
that throughout the system they are not there in overwhelming num-
bers and I don't believe they are as great as in my own profession, the
legal profession. I wish we could root them out and disbar them
forever and maybe some day that can be done.
I want to thank you because I think you have done something worth-
while. I think, speaking for the committee, that we feel you have
performed a worthwhile service to your (lOvernment and to this Con-
gress and I trust, sir, that there will be no sanctions imposed upon you
because, in my o])inion, you do not deserve it. Or, if you find yourself
in any trouble or difficulty as the result of your appearance here today,
you will communicate with this connnittee so that we can be of
assistance to you.
Thank you, sir.
Mr. KuxziG. You are excused, sir.
(The Avitness was excused.)
Mr. KuxziG. There is one more witness, sir.
Mr. Ci.ARDY. Mr. Rand, I thank you for your splendid conduct. It
stands out in startling contrast to some of our fellows in the profession.
Mr. Kand. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Clardy. Call the next witness.
CO]VmiUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1061
]\Ir. TA^^NNER. I call Mr. Max Weitzman. Is he in the hearing
room ^ Will you please come forward ?
Mr. Clardy. Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
YOU God?
j\Ir. Weitzman. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MAX WEITZMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,
GABRIEL KANTROVITZ
Mr. TA^^ENNER. State your name, please.
Mr. Weitzman. Max Weitzman.
JSIr. Ta\t:nner. Are you accompanied by counsel, Mr. Weitzman?
Mr. Weitzman. I have the pleasure of being accompanied by
counsel.
]Mr. TA^-ENNER. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ?
]\Ir. Kantrovitz. Gabriel Kantrovitz, Boston, Mass.
At this time, Mr. Congressman and Mr. Tavenner, I wonder if I
could submit for your consideration a motion to vacate the subpena ?
Mr. Clardy. Have you appeared before this committee prior to
today?
Mr. Kantrovitz. I appeared 2 years ago before another committee.
Mr. Clardy. Perhaps I had better tell you that we do not allow
counsel to submit statements. You can submit a written statement
or a written motion, and you may advise with your client at any time
on the legal questions involved, but we have an infjexible rule that does
not permit counsel to address the committee at any time. So, if you
will submit your motion in writing, we will accept it.
Mr. Kantrovitz. I wonder if I might state that this service was
made upon Mr. Weitzman by a United States marshal at his school
during school hours on a schoolclay.
Mr. Clardy. Whatever you say will be taken into consideration.
]\lr. Kantrovitz. That is in violation of the ninth and tenth amend-
ments.
Mr. Clardy. It will be passed on by the entire committee. Proceed,
]\Ir. Tavenner.
]Mr. Tavenner. "Wlien and where were you born ?
Mr, Weitzman. In Poland in 1915, on March 16.
Mr. Ta^-enner. "Wlien did you first enter the United States ?
:Mr. Weitzman. In 1920, on July 20.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen ?
jNIr. Weitzman. My name appears on the naturalization papers of
my father, and when he became a citizen I automatically became a cit-
izen in my boyhood.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did that occur ?
Mr. Weitzman. In the 1920's, I think in 1928.
Mr. Ta\^nner. What is your profession?
Mr. Weitzman. Teacher, public-school teacher.
Mr. TA^'ENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, what your for-
mal education training consisted of?
Mr. Weitzman. Yes, certainly. I was educated in the public
schools of New York City. I am a graduate of the College of the
City of New York, where I got my bachelor's degree.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you obtain that degree?
1062 coMivruNiST methods of infiltration (education)
Mr. Weitzman. In 1941, in June, and in Boston University I ob-
tained my master's degree in June of 1949.
Mr. Clardy. I will have to suspend the proceedings for a brief
period of time. I have been called to the House. I will be back just
as quickly as I can do that.
(Thereupon a short recess was taken.)
Mr. Clardy. Proceed, counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Weitzman, will you tell the committee, please,
what your record of employment has been since 1941 ?
Mr. Weitzman. Since 1941 I held odd jobs in tlie city of New York
until 1942, when I enrolled with the Signal Corps branch of Govern-
ment service as a civilian learning the principles of radio and elec-
tricity. That was meant to equip me for the position as an inspector
of radio and of electrical equipment. That is factory inspection of
such equipment.
Mr. Clardy. Will you keep your voice up, please? It is rather
difficult to hear you.
Mr. Weitzman. I have said that I was trained by the Signal Corps
branch of the United States Government to be trained for the posi-
tion of a Government inspector of electrical and radio equipment when
it is manufactured, that is to help in the factory inspection of such
radio and electrical equipment.
Mr. Ta\tgnner. How long did you engage in that type of work?
Mr. Weitzman. The learning of the work and the engaging in the
inspection M^ork was from March 1942 until the 1st of January 1944,
when I was inducted in the service.
Mr. Tavenner. May I ask at that point, what was the nature of
your inspection work ?
Mr. Weitzman. The nature of the inspection work was to examine
the manufactured parts so that they may meet specifications laid down
by my superiors.
Mr. Taat2nner. What type of electrical equipment was it?
Mr. Weitzman. Well, it was radio equipment such as condensers,
resistors, receivers, and so forth, mechanical inspection.
Mr. Tavenner. Did it have anything to do with electrical devices
on weapons ?
Mr. Weitzman. I don't know what you mean by "weapons." It was
merely devices that would go into radio receivers and transmitters.
Mr. Tavenner. Then you were inducted into the armed services in
January 1944?
Ml-. Weitzman. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain in the armed services of
the United States ?
Mr. Weitzman. Well, I remained in the armed services of the
United States from then until October 8, 1945, when I received aa
honorable discharge on the basis of dependency due to my child's
condition, which justified my getting an honorable discharge on the
basis of dependency.
Mr. Tavenner. When you received your discharge, where did you
then engage in work ?
Mr. Weitzman. Well, after receivino^ the discharge, I went to Bos-
ton and my wife was in Boston then. She gave birth in Boston to my
daughter and she remained there due to the difficulties, financial and
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1063
lioubing. It happens tliat we finally ended up in the city of Boston
and I settled down and there is where I still remain resident.
Mr. Tavenner. ^Vliere did you reside in Boston ?
Mr. Weitzmax. I resided in Koxbury. That is a part of the city
of Boston.
Mr. Tavenner. You remained as a resident of Boston from that
time until the present time ?
I^Ir. Weitzman. From that time until the present ; yes.
Jklr. Tavenner. What other employment have you had ?
Mr. Weitzman. Well, I became a substitute teacher in the Boston
public schools, working- on a day-to-day basis and getting paid as
such until 1050, when I received a permanent appointment to teach in
the elementary schools.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you begin your work as a teacher in the
public schools in Boston ?
Mr. Weitzman. My first day of teaching in the Boston public
schools I remember clearly was October 18, 1945.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you become a permanent teacher in the
Boston public schools?
Mr. Weitzman. My permanent status began March 1, 1950.
Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time did you engage in teach-
ing of any other character besides that in the public schools of
Boston ?
Mr. Weitzman. To answer that question, being a question that
pertains to matters of belief and association, I am constrained to
invoke the first amendment, which I am entitled to maintain my free-
dom of speech as well as freedom of silence and, due to the present
circumstances of public opinion, that is, the clime of public opinion
in which we live today, I am constrained to invoke the fifth amendment
and all its provisions, including that of self-incrimination.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Weitzman, I trust that you will reconsider
your decision about that. I think it would be well at this time to re-
view with you certain testimony that has been introduced before the
Committee on Un-American Activities and to give you the benefit of
certain other information that is in the possession of the committee
which should set forth the background of your knowledge and things
which this committee is interested in. After I have done so I hope
you will reconsider the position which you are about to take.
A witness by the name of Herbert Philbrick testified before this
committee as long ago as July 23, 1951, regarding an organized group
of the Communist Party in Boston, composed principally of membei's
of the teaching profession. Mr. Philbrick testified that in 1940 he be-
came active in the Cambridge Youth Council; that as soon as he
become convinced that he had run into Communist-front activities of
the Communist Party, he informed the Federal Bureau of Investiga-
tion and then stayed on in the group for the purpose of reporting to
the Government the activities of the Communists in their attempt to
control the Cambridge Youth Council; that he subsequently joined
other organizations for the purpose of obtaining information valuable
to the United States Government, including the Young Communist
League, and the Communist Party.
The date of his membership in the Communist Party began in
March of 1944 and ended at the time of his expulsion from the Com-
munist Party in April of 1949.
1064 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
In the course of Mr. Philbrick's testimony, he stated that there were
14 cells that made up the professional ^roup of the Communist Party
in Boston and that each cell was assio;ned to various types of work
based mostly upon the normal occupation of the members of the par-
ticular cell. For example, the doctors were assigned to a cell of the
Communist Party composed exclusively of doctors. Upon being asked
to name the other professional groups with which he was familiar,
Mr. Philbrick testified that there was a teachers' group composed of
a small number which he understood consisted of 5 or 6 persons at'
the time he was familiar with it. When asked if he knew the names'
of any of the teacher group, Mr. Philbrick replied, "No; I do not.
Max Weitzman may have been one of them."
Although this language by Mr. Philbrick indicates some doubt in
his mind as to your membership in that group, he describes in his
testimony certain activities with which your name was connected, as
shown from the following testimony, and this testimony by the way
sets forth a background of a great deal of his knowledge of Commu-
nist Party activities and, of course, anyone associated with it would
likewise have detailed knowledge.
I will now read to you from the testimony of Mr. Philbrick :
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Philbrick, you described for us this morning the information
of the Communist Political Association and also its dissolution. Did you take
part in any of the convention activities which led up to the formation of the
Communist Political Association?
Mr. Philbrick. I attended the conventions of the CPA — that is, the formation
of the CPA — but only as a visitor, not as a delegate. In fact, I had attended
Communist Party conventions as far back as 3948. I believe, as a visitor, but
it was not until 1945 that I attended as an actual delegate.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time voice opposition to the formation of the
Communist Political Association and the adoption of the less stringent views
or activity by that organization?
Mr. Philbrick. Yes; I did. It so happened that in 1944, just prior to the
acceptance of Browderism, I had been attending some classes over at Dave
Bennett's apartment which were very strictly Marxist classes, advocation of
violent revolution, and so forth.
So when the discussion came up at Alice Gordon's apartment regarding! the
dissolution of the Communist Party and the formation of the Communist Po-
litical Association, more to heckle the comrades than anything else, I voiced
strenuous opposition to the change. I said I thought capitalism was still fight-
ing for its own selfish ends, and we were making a great mistake in overthrow-
ing the great revolutionary traditions of the party.
We had quite a time. The comrades were rather hard put for u while to
explain all the changes. But of conrs-e in the end T did give in, as a good com-
rade, and admit that perhaps Comrade Browder was correct.
To advance the story now to 1945, when the Communist Party leaders again
changed their minds and it was decided they had to get rid of this very vile
creature, Mr. Browder, it was remembered on the State convention floor that
Philbrick was the one who had held out the longest against this great evil;
and for that reason I became somewhat of a great hero in 1945, and that was
one of the reasons why I was assigned to educational work in the party, to teach
Marxism to other comrades.
I might add I had no success at nil in convincing my comrades in 1944 that
the.v were wrong.
Mr. Tavenner. Then, as a result of that action, you finally became the head
of the State Educational Commission of the Communist Party at the dissolution
of the Communist Political Association; is that coi'rect?
Mr. Phtt BRICK. No. T Itecnme a member (>f th*^ education commission in
charge of the propnganda work, in charge of the leaflet production. I was in
charge of the printed material that the party produced from that time on. The
first chairman was .Tustine O'Connor, then we had various chairman throughout
tlie vear.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1065
Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall now the names of the various chairmen of that
commission?
Mr. Philbrick. The members of the commission at the time I became a member
of it in 1945 were: Justine O'Connor, Otis Hood, Boone Schirmer, who later
became a chairman — —
INIr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name?
Mr. Philbrick. B-o-o-n-e S-c-h-i-r-m-e-r.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that Daniel Boone Schirmer?
Mr. Philbrick. Daniel Boone Schirmer.
Max Weitzman.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name?
Mr. Philbrick. I can't recall the spelling. It was something like W-h-i-t-e-s-
m-a-n or W-e-i-t-z-m-a-n ; but Max was our chairman for quite a period of time.
He was normally known only as Max.
And Manny Blum was a member of the commission and a leader of the group
for a period of time.
Of course the group was headed up nationally by .Jack Sta^hel of the national
office.
Now Mr. Philbrick's knowledge of the Communist Party activities
in Boston was such that resulted in his being called by another investi-
gative committee of Congress within a comparatively recent time,
but I understand the name of Max Weitzman was not referred to in
the course of his testimony. However, Mr. Philbrick published a
book which was copyrighted in 1952 entitled "I Led Three Lives : Citi-
zen. 'Communist,' Counter-Spy."
Beginning at page 172 of this book, Mr. Philbrick described a super-
secret teacher-training course in the following language :
In the fall of 1945, the party carefully screened 1,.500 Communists in the Boston
area to attend a supersecret training school in I\larxism. I was selected as 1
of the 16 candidates * * *. The supersecret teacher training course was sched-
uled for 8 sessions, 1 night a week, to be held in October and November 1945, at
the West End Communist Club off Scollay Square in downtown Boston. * * *
Mr. Philbrick described the purposes of the school in the following
language :
Fanny Hartman glanced about the room, and, assured that her full class was
assembled, passed out the course outlines. Then, as the woman boss of the
district party, she went to work.
"Comrades," her soft voice was like the stropping of a razor in the still room,
"you all realize that this is not simply a routine course of Marxism-Leninism."
Mr. Kantrovitz. It seems to me that is a very lengthy question.
Mr. Clardt. Counsel, will you please subside? I told you at the
beginning that you have no right to do what you are now doing.
Now, will you please proceed, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Kantrovitz. I am sorry.
Mr. Tavenner. I will repeat that :
"You all realize that this is not simply a routine course in Marxism-Leninism.
Yon are all experienced enough, I hope, to know most of the facts of Marxist-
Leninist teachings. If not, you wouldn't be here. This is a course to instruct
you how to teach others, how to train your own comrades. You will have the
responsibility of training our cadres so that they in turn can go out and win
the workers to the Socialist struggle agains the Fascist imperialists of the world,
and in particular, the United States.
"This is a long-range program, part of an organized campaign throughout the
party to rid every unit of the last vestiges of Browderism, to deepen the under-
standing of Marxist-Leninist theory." She leaned forward in her chair for
emphasis. "In particular, you will study the application of Marx and Lenin
to the conditions of the United States today. Your responsibilities will include
organizing city and branch schools, and you will carry out a systematic checkup
of Marxist study in every cell. You will lead some of the educational classes
yourselves, and you will instruct others to lead similar classes."
1066 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
The class members shuffled about in their chairs and settled down for a long
session. I began making notes. Fanny delved into the importance of the tactics
of proper teaching. A good instructor, she explained, can teach and influence
any person along Communist lines no matter what his position in life.
The purposes of this supersecret training course were further em-
phasized in Mr. Philbrick's description of the occasion when a
stranger, who wtis not introcUiced to the ckiss, occupied the place at the
instructor's table.
His appearance —
stated Mr. Philbrick —
was very brief, and he had only a few words to say to the class. But it soon
became evident that his soft voice carried the weight of the national Politburo.
He spoke of the reconstitution of the party, the reestablishment of rigid Marxism
In every segment of party organization, the renewal of the struggle against
boui'geois influences.
"Comrades,'" he added, "as a result of the war we have seen a great intensifica-
tion of the contradictions between the two world systems — socialism and cap-
italism. In this country we shall see a sharper growth of fascism and the build-
ing of the class struggle which will eventually bring the establishment of
socialism. The party does not consider the raising of the question of revolution
as an immediate slogan for action. We must first reorganize the party in its van-
guard role and function as the leader of the American proletariat.
"Under Browder's revisionism we have become soft. This calls for a special
evaluation, and for an increase of our internal as well as our external vigilance.
Externally, we must defeat Red baiting. Internally we must take special meas-
ures to protect our party organization and membership. We must deal ruthlessly
with agents of the enemy. You," he said his eyes passing around the room and
missing none of us, "will have special responsibilities in this task."
My "special responsibilities" soon became plain. After one of the class sessions
toward the end of the course, Fanny Hartman stopped me at the door and drew
me aside.
"There will be a special meeting of a new group at the ofiice Saturday after-
noon," she told me, out of earshot of the others. "Two o'clock. Be sure to be
there."
On the following Saturday I passed the morning at the M. & P. Theaters
oflBce cleaning up some back work. Then, after lunch, I proceeded to district
headquarters, rode the elevator to the sixth floor, walked down a flight on the
fire stairs, and entered the Communist Party headquarters.
The meeting was held in Fanny Hartman's inner sanctum. But I was sur-
prised to discover that Fanny was not there.
Then he proceeded to describe a meeting of six individuals, includ-
ing himself. The man who ran the group, as he stated, was Emmanuel
or "Manny " Blum, a New York-trained Communist sent by national
headquarters to New England to replace Fanny Hartman as district
organizer.
Mr. Philbrick identified you at this point on page 182 along with his
statement at page 186 of his book, as a member of that group.
He says on page 182 of his book :
The group of six Communists came to be known among us privately as the
Jack Stachel group for New England. More formally, it was the district edu-
cational commission of the Communist Party, operating directly under Jack
Stachel as the national educational director.
Mr. Philbrick also had occasion to refer to you in connection with
liis description of the method used by the Communist Party to ex-
ploit disunity and create confusion in election campaigns. He stated
at page 191 of his book :
Every election campaign from the local school board to the Presidency be-
came fair game for Communist intrusion and infiltration — with or without the
knowledge or assent of the candidates.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1067
Anthony M. Roche was a Democratic candidate for Congress from the Eighth
Congressional District of Massachusetts in the 1946 off-year election. The
Roche campaign was an example of what can happen on the local level to an
anti-Communist candidate, in an anti-Communist community, when a handful
of ardent Communists seek to use him as a propaganda outlet. He had no
opportunity to give his assent when the Communist Party branch of Maiden.
Mass., moved in on his campaign. He did not even know it. He had no idea
that he had been carefully handpicked ahead of time to serve as a grindstone
for the "sharpening of contradictions." Roche had no Communist sympathies —
far from it. He was a liberal spokesman of organized labor and a determined
anti-Communist, too astute and independent to be made into a party dupe. Yet
despite his astuteness and his hostility to Communists, he was tricked into
their employment by the same methods that can be and are brought to bear
on candidates for office in any political subdivision of the United States. Roche
happened to be a Democrat. But in view of the objectives of the Communist
Party in the political area before and after the Browder era, a Republican
candidate would be equally vulnerable to Communist chicanery. Political
principles don't matter. The Communist Party can make use of them all.
I was one of the five Maiden Communists who worked from the beginning on
the Anthonv Roche campaign in 1946. With other comrades in the district. I
plotted behind doors, which carefully barred Roche and his advisers, to take
over his campaign in spite of his own anti-Communist position. Beyond certain
fundamentals, we were not concerned with what Roche stood for. He was picked
not only in spite of but even because of his anticommunism. We didn't care
whether he won, and in fact we never expected him to win. All we wanted was
one foot on his campaign platform.
And then he continued at page 202 as follows :
In the midst of the Roche campaign, a branch executive meeting was called in
Maiden. Max Weitzman was the "expert" assigned from State headquarters
as the educational speaker of the evening.
"Let us not forget," said Max in his discussion, "that it doesn't make much
difference whether price controls as they are now proposed are on or off. Capi-
talism is caught in a trap of contradictions which the economy cannot shake
loose."
Out of his explanation I understood that the party could count the issue of
price controls a victory one way or the other. If a strong program of controls
went through, the Government bureaucracy necessary to enforce them would be
accordingly reinforced. And Communists are probureaucratic. in that they rec-
ognize bureaucracy as one of the "creeping diseases of capitalism." The party
teaches that, as capitalism grows, bureau is piled on bureau in an effort to
control the growth. Eventually, Stalin and Lenin believe, tlie government be-
comes topheavy, and the whole thing crashes.
Now, Mr. Weitzman, I have gone into mnch detail in connection
with testimony and information relating to von for the purpose of
showing you the background of matters that I want to discuss with
you.
Mr. Philbrick, as many other witnesses, performed a service of
great vahie to the Congress, the Government, and the people of this
country in giving this committee facts within his knowledge relating
to the Communist conspiracy in our midst. I want to give you every
opportunit}' to make an equal contribution to the sum total of knowl-
edge of the committee on these important matters. The committee
is particularly interested at this time in obtaining all possible infor-
mation regarding the plan of the Communist Party to organize teach-
ers, and to extend its discipline to members of the teaching profes-
sion, the exact purposes of the Communist Party in this specialized
field, the extent to which it has succeeded or failed in its activities,
and the methods by which it seeks to accomplish its purposes.
This is a very important matter, and I ask you to tell the committee
whether or not you are willing to cooperate with it in giving the facts
1068 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
as may be \vitlun your personal knowledge reLjardiiiix tliese matters.
If you liave not already done so, take time to confer with your counsel.
1 am suie the chairman of this subconnnittee will adjourn for a while
to ^ive you an opportunity to discuss it if you desire.
^Iv. IVeitzman. Excuse me.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
(At this point Mr. Weitzman conferred with Mr. Kantrovitz.)
Mr. Tavenxer. ^fay I interrupt your conference with your counsel
to add one thino- more. If you need more time to consider what action
you will take. Ave could very easily put this hearing off until tonK)rrow
or until some further time to give you the opportunity to consider this
matter fully in light of all the circumstances that you know of.
Mr. Weitzman. Mr. Chairman, I would like to put the record
straight and the inferences impugning my loyalty and allegiance to
the United States Constitution and my allegiance to the Common-
wealth of Massachusetts as a teacher. The inference also impugning
or poisoning or attempting to poison my relation with my community
and my school. I have demonstrated in the armed forces an honor-
able devotion to my country and I have always been proud of the
uniform which I wore and I still reaffirm that allegiance and that
devotion. My family has already made the supreme sacrifice and, con-
sidering the unpredictable fortunes of war, it could very well have been
me instead of my brother.
I have as a teacher never violated the oath which is incumbent upon
me as a teacher — that is, allegiance to the Constitution of the United
States and the Conunonwealth of ^lassachusetts. To expect a public
school teacher to possess only beliefs which are of a conformity nature
and not to allow the teacher to become a citizen as well and if possible
nonconformity beliefs is to relegate the teaching profession to an
inferior status.
I am not going to betray my privacy to this committee. I am going
to maintain my constitutional privileges and rights to my freedom of
opinions and speech and likewise my freedom of silence of those
opinions, whether they are conformist or nonconformist.
My right to associate is also given me by the first amendment. I do
not remember if the inferences or the references you have made were to
questions of belief that reflect on violence, but as a public school teacher
and as a member of the Jewish community I am more upset than any-
thing else concerning the recent pattern.
Mr. Clardy. That will be enough. We will desist from that answer
and either give an answer saying that you refuse to answer or you will
answer "yes" or "no," and you will desist from the speechmaking and
the haranguing that you are imposing upon the committee. Now,
proceed in that fashion, sir, or I shall silence you.
Mr. Weitzman. But as a sensitive teacher
Mr. Ci-ARDY. Did you understand what I said ?
Now. answer the question as I indicated, or we will tolerate no more
of this. If you wish to avail yourself of the fifth amendment, you may
do so. But you will not be permitted to harangue the committee as
you have been doing. My patience is exhausted. Now, you will pro-
ceed as I indicated.
Mr. Weitzman. Then may I continue ?
Mr. Clardy. You may not continue as you have, but as I have
indicated.
COMMUNIST METHODS OF IXFILTRATION (EDUCATION) 1069
Mr. Weitzman. Yes, I am goiiijj to continue.
Mr. Clardy. Now, answer as I have told you.
Mr. WEiTz:\rAX. With regard to the matter you have mentioned, in
the light of the present circumstances, in the light of i)ublic opinion, I
am constrained to assert my privileges under the fifth amendment, all
aspects of the fifth amendnient, including that wliich pertains to self-
incrimination.
Mr. Clardy. Very well. You are refusing to answer.
Do you have any further questions, Counsel ?
Mr.'TAVENXER. ^Of course my question, Mr. Chairman, was whether
he would be willing to cooperate. He has indicated that he would
not.
Mr. Clardy. I understand he has refused to answer your question
on the constitutional ground which he has advanced. If you have
any further questions, I suggest you proceed.
Mr. TA^'ENNER. Yes.
Mr. Clardy. I shall not tolerate any more harangues of that kind.
Mr. Ta\tenner. Mr. Weitzman, are you aware of any effort having
been made by the Communist Party to organize a cell or group of
the Communist Party in Boston composed of members of the teaching
profession ?
Mr. Weitzman. Mr. Chairman, that question comes under the
category of association as well as belief, and in the circumstances of
public opinion I am again constrained to assert my privilege under
the fifth amendment and I decline to answer, also, under the grounds
of the first amendment.
Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Ta\'Enner. Do you have any personal knowledge of the ac-
tivities of a group known as the Jack Stachel group for Xew England
which was more formally referred to as the District Educational Com-
mission of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Weitzman. All knowledge pertaining to association and to
belief I do not concede this committee's right to inquire into.
Mr. Clardy. That is the prerogative of the committee to decide.
When a question is propounded to you you may either answer or
stand upon your constitutional ground as the reason for refusing to
answer. We will not tolerate, and I repeat it, we will not tolerate any
more lectures to this committee.
Now, will you ask the question again, Mr. Tavenner.
]\Ir. Tavenner. Do you have personal knowledge of the activities
of a group known as the Jack Stachel group for New England, or
more formally known as the District Educational Commission of
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Weitzman. As I have already indicated in my previous re-
marks, and in the light of present hysterical circumstances of public
opinion I am constrained to assert my privileges under the fifth
amendment, all those privileges inclu.ding the right against self-in-
crimination ; also on the ground of the first amendment as it reflects
the right of opinion, association, and so forth.
j\Ir. Clardy. You will strike from the record all that part of the
answer except the fact that he is standing upon his constitutional
grounds as stated, Mr. Reporter.
Mr. Kax"trom:tz. Congressman Clardy
1070 COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (EDUCATION)
Mr, Clardy. I will not listen to counsel. I have told yoii before
that counsel has no privilege of addressing the Chair.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you personally acquainted with Herbert Phil-
brick?
Mr. Weitzman. Questions pertaining to individuals, questions per-
taining to association are the same and I have the right to associate or
refuse to associate with whomever I choose. That is my right. Hence
I feel that I would be impugning the first amendment and therefore
I decline to answer on the grounds of the first amendment and in the
light of the present circumstances I assert the privileges under the
fifth amendment and all its provisions.
Mr. Clardy. It will be sufficient in the future for you to say that
you refuse to answer upon the grounds previously stated, if that is
your desire, and we will follow that and avoid long, drawn-out
answers.
Now, will you proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Philbrick's identification of you as a
member of the supersecret teacher-training group of the Communist
Party true or was it false ?
Mr. Weitzman. I decline to answer on the grounds of privilege
as previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Philbrick's identification of you as chair-
man of the district educational commission of the Communist Party
true or false ?
Mr. Weitzman. I decline to answer on constitutional grounds as
previously indicated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you address a branch of the Communist Party
at Maiden, Mass., during the election campaign of Mr. Koche?
Mr. Weitzman. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds as I have already given this committee.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Weitzman. That question also pertains to the right of asso-
ciation or lack of association, and it is therefore my right under the
Constitution to refuse to answer under the first as well as the fifth
amendment, particularly the provision against self-incrimination.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Weitzman. I wish to give the same answer to this question as
I liave to the previous question.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Clardy. I have no questions whatever. Is there any reason
this witness should be continued under the subpena ?
Mr. Tavenner. No.
Mr. Clardy. The witness is excused, and this hearing is adjourned
until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon, at 5 : 10 p. m., the hearing was recessed until 10 a. m.,
Thursday, April 23, 1953.)
INDEX
Individuals
Page
Amdur, Isadore 1016,1017,1018,1029,1046-1060 (testimony)
Arguimbau, Lawrence 1018, 1029, 1048
Arnold, Kenneth 1052
Blaisdell, B. E 1018, 1021, 1029, 1048
Blum, Manny 1005, 1066
Bridgemau. Howard Allen 1049
Browder, Earl 1027, 1031, 1064, 1066, 1067
Browder, Felix 1027
Brown, Gerald (Jerry) 1038,1039
Cobb, David 1035, 103&-1045
Cort, Joseph Henry 999, 1038
Darling, Byron 1037
Davis, Robert Gorham 981, 982
Dontzin, Ben 1000, 1038
Dowker, Hugh 1022
Duclos, Jacques 1033
Edsall, Richard 1049
Fine, Daniel 1000. 1038
Forer, Joseph 977-987
Furry, Wendell H 982, 1017, 1048, 1058
Gordon, Alice 1064
Gelbart, A. M 1018, 102G, 1029, 1048
Grossenbacher, Carl 1022, 1048, 1049
Halperin, Israel 983, 984, 985, 1018, 1025, 1026, 1029
Hartman, Fanny _• 1065, 1066
Hicks, Granville 981
Hiss, Alger 1056
Hood, Otis 1065
Hurvich, Leo M 977-978 (testimony), 1017, 1018
Kantrovitz, Gabriel 1061-1070
Kerner, William 1000, 1038
Levinson, Norman 1016, 1018, 1029. 1048
Levy, Arthur 1000, 1038
Lewis, Sinclair 1044
Markham. Helen Deane 1025
Martin, William Ted 1013, 1014-1035 (testimony), 1052
O'Connor, Justine 1064, 1065
Philbrick, Herbert 1022, 1049, 1063-1066, 1070
Polumbaum, Theodore S 987,988-1012 (testimony), 1038
Putter. Norman 1026
Rand, Stuart C 1013, 1014-1035, 1046-1060
Revnolds, John H 1022
Roche, Anthony N 1067, 1070
Rosen, Nathan 1048
Rubinstein, Bernard W 1038
Rubinstein, William 1001
Schirmer, Daniel Boone 1065
Shubow, Lawrence D 987, 988-1012
Singer. Marcus 1049
Stachel, Jack 1065, 1066, 1069
Struik, Dirk J 1016-1018, 1022, 1023, 1048
Veall. Norman 1025
Wahl. Albert E 1041. 1042
1071
1072 INDEX
Page
Walliiiaii. Heury 1022
A\'eissbi(.(lt lO:;.")
"Weilzman. Max KKil
Wcenier, Harold T 1001. lO^U
ZiLsel, Paul Kiidolpli 1002, 1035, 1036-1045 (testimony)
Organizations
Aiuerican Academy of Arts and Sciences 10r>2
American Association of Scientific Workers__ 982, 983, 984, 1025, 1029, 1030, 1051
American Federation of Teachers 981
American Xewsiiaiier Guild 1003
American Youth lor Democracy 1041, 1045
Bnai B'rith 1003
Boston University 1062
Cambridfie Youth Council 1063
College of Charleston, Charleston, S. C 1036
College of the City of New York 1061
Cohtrado A. and M. College 1036
Federal Bureau of Investigation 1063
Federation of Architects, Engineers, Chemists, and Technicians 1034
German-Aniericari Bund 1003
Harvard College 978, 1017, 1022
Harvard University 980, 981, 1048, 1049
Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton 1014
John Reed Club 1009, 1010, 1011
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 1014-
lOlS, 1022, 1023, 1025, 1027-1029, 1031, 1032, 1034, 1046-1050
I'rincetcn University 1018
Progressive Citizens of America 1002
Subversive Activities Control Board 993, 994
Syiacuse University 1014, 1021, 1025, 1034
United Press 988, 995, 1002-1005
United Press Association 995, 1012
University of Ai-kansas 1014
University of Connecticut 1036
University of Illinois 1014
University of Pittsburgh* 1046
University of Wisconsin 1036, 1037, 1039, 1041
Wisconsin Liberals Association lOil
World Federation of Scientific Workers 1051
Yale University 988, 989, 1012, 1036-1039
Young Communist League 1041, 1045, 1063
I'oung Progressives 1002
Publications
Acme News Pictures 995, 1003
Daily Worker 1001
Das Kapital 1059
Gazette and Daily, York, Pa 988. 995
Hartford Courant 1041
I Led Three Lives : Citizen, Communist, Counterspy 1065
Worker 1001
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