■^^^A
a
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
HEARINGS ^
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE
ADMINISTRATION OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY
ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL SECURITY LAWS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
EIGHTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
PART 3
JUNE 15, 1961
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
64139 WASHINGTON : 1961
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi, Chairman
ESTES KEFAUVEK, Tennessee
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas
SAM J. ERVIN, Je., North Carolina
JOHN A. CARROLL, Colorado
THOMAS J. DODD, Connecticut
PHILIP A. HART, Michigan
EDWARD V. LONG, Missouri
ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin
EVERETT McKINLEY DIRKSEN, Illinois
ROMAN L. HRUSKA, Nebraska
KENNETH B. KEATING, New York
NORRIS COTTON, New Hampshire
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administbation of the Internal Security
Act and Othee Internal Security Laws
JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi, Chairman
THOMAS J. DODD, Connecticut, Vice Chairman
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South CaroUna ROMAN L. HRUSKA, Nebraska
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas EVERETT McKINLEY DIRKSEN, Illinois
SAM J. ERVIN, Jr., North CaroUna KENNETH B. KEATING, New York
NORRIS COTTON, New Hampshire
J. G. SouR-ftlNE, Counsel
Benjamix Mandel, Director of Research
U
CONTENTS
Testimony of — I'age
Bernstein, Joseph 300
Bernstein, Reva 308
Kowalski, Stanley 237, 313
Miller, Martin 314
Rosenshine, Nathan 302
Sabaroff, Arnold 310,314
Shaw, Edward 250
WeUman, David 311
III
Eesolution
Resolved hy the Internal Security Subcommittee of the Senate
Coiwmittee on the Judiciary^ That the injunction of secrecy be
removed from testimony given in executive session by Edwin Shaw,
on June 14, 1961 : Be it further
Resolved^ That said testimony be printed and made public.
James O. Eastland, Chairman.
Thomas J. Dodd, Vice Chairman.
Olin D. Johnston.
John L. McClellan.
Sam J. Er\t;n, Jr.
Roman L. Hruska.
E\'ERETT McKlNLEY DiRKSEN.
Kenneth B. Keating.
XoRRis Cotton.
Dated June 16, 1961.
IV
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
THUBSDAY, JUNE 15, 1961
U.S. Senate,
Sttbcommittee to Investigate the Administration of
THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal
Secltrity Laws, of the Committee on the Judiciary,
Washington^ B.C.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call at 10:10 a.m., in room
2228, New Senate Office Building, Senator Kenneth B. Keating
presiding.
Present : Senators Keating and Norris Cotton.
Also present : J, G. Sourwine, chief counsel, and Frank Schroeder,
chief investigator.
Senator Keating. The subcommittee will come to order. Counsel,
call the first witness.
Mr. Sourwine. Stanley Kowalski.
Senator Keating. Will you raise your right hand, Mr. Kowalski.
Do you solemnly swear that the evidence that you give before this
committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Kowalski. I do.
Senator Keating. Be seated and give your name.
TESTIMONY OF STANLEY KOWALSKI
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Kowalski, what is your full name ?
Mr. Kowalski. My full name is Stanley Kowalski.
Mr. Sourwine. And your address at home ?
Mr. Kowalski. I prefer not to give my home address, sir. I will
give my office address.
ISIr. Sourwine. You have furnished the committee with your home
address privately, have you not ?
Mr. Kowalski. Yes, I have.
Mr. Sourwine. Your office address, sir.
Mr. Kowalski. 1300 Beaubein Street, Detroit 26, Mich.
Mr. Sourwine. "What is your business or profession ?
Mr. Kowalski. I am a detective with the Detroit Police Depart-
ment, working out of the criminal information bureau and assigned
to the subversive activities bureau.
Mr. Sourwine. Have your duties included surveillance of the activi-
ties or some of the activities of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
chapter in Detroit and its members or some of its members ?
Mr. Kowalski. Yes, they have.
Mr. SoLTRwiNE. Do you know Ed Shaw.
Mr. Kowalski. Yes, I do.
237
238 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know him as connected with the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee in Detroit ?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, I do.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you observed him at various meetings of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. KowALSKi. I have observed Ed Shaw at numerous meetings
of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know what position he holds with the
Committee ?
Mr. KowALSKi. To the best of my recollection, he is the midwest
director of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Mr. Shaw as a member of the So-
cialist Workers Party ?
Mr. KowALSKi. I have observed Mr, Shaw in attendance at meet-
ings sponsored by the Socialist Workers Party over a j)eriod of the
last 5 years.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you see Mr. Shaw here in the room ?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, I do.
Mr. SouRwixE. Would you point him out, please.
Mr. KowALSKi (pointing). Sitting on the edge; with the cigarette
in his mouth ; with the bow tie.
Senator Keating. The only man in the room with a cigarette hang-
ing out of his mouth, is that correct?
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Kowalski, I show you a photograph. I ask
you if you recognize this photograph.
IN'Ir. Kowalski. Yes, I do.
Mr. Sourwine. "Wliat is it ?
Mr. Kowalski. It is a photograph of a picket line in front of the
Federal Building in the city of Detroit, sponsored by the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee. Mr. Ed Shaw was observed directing the
activities of this picket line.
Mr. Sourwine. Does Mr. Shaw show in that picture?
Mr. Kowalski. Yes, he is shown in this picture with a camera
hanging from his neck.
Mr. Sourwine. Is the picture recognizable ?
Mr. Kowalski. Yes, sir, it is.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Chairman, may this be ordered in the record
and marked as "Exhibit No. 37" ?
Senator Keating. It will be received.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
239
(The photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 37" and is re-
produced below:)
Exhibit No. 37.— Scene described as picket line before Federal Building in
Detroit, showing Ed Sbaw, with camera hanging from his neck walking
away from line.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I want to question other witnesses about it hiter.
I show you another picture, Mr. Kowalski, and ask you if you
recognize it. Do you recognize that photograph?
Mr. Kowalski. Yes, I do.
Mr. SouRWiNE. What is that photo ?
Mr. Kowalski. It is a picture of Mr. Shaw's vehicle parked in
front of his home at 1057 East Grand Boulevard in the city of
Detroit.
Mr. SouRWTisrE. You mean his automobile ?
Mr. Kowalski. Right.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You know of the occasion on which that picture
was taken?
Mr. Kowalski. Yes sir.
Mr. SouwiisrE. Was it any particular occasion ?
Mr. Kowalski. Yes, I do. On that respective date a meeting of
tlie Fair Play for Cuba Committee was held in the home of Mr. Sliaw.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Chairman, I ask that this be admitted as ex-
hibit 38.
Senator Keating. It will be rexieived.
»
240
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
(The photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit 38" and is re-
produced below :)
^#*§s»*ys!i^'
Exhibit No. 38. — Car described as belongiug to Shaw, standing in front of his
home in Detroit during Fair Play for Cuba Committee meeting there.
Mr. SouRWixE. I show you another pliotograph. Do you recognize
this?
Mr. KowALSKt. Yes, I do.
Mr. SouRW^XE. Of what is this a photograph ?
Mr. KowALSKi. This is a photograph of a picket line which has
moved from the Federal Building to the front of the old City Hall
in the citv of Detroit. It is a picket line sponsored by the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee and in the picture I see Mr. Martin Miller
parading in the picket line.
Mr. SouRWiXE. Is ]\Ir. Shaw in tliat picture ?
Mr. KowALSKi. And Mr. Shaw is in the line there as well.
Mr. SouRwiXE. May this be received as exhibit 39, ]Mr. Chairman?
Senator Keatixg. It will be received.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 241
(The photograpli referred to was marked "Exhibit .39," and
follows : )
Exhibit No. 39.— Picket line in front of Detroit City Hall showing Shaw
(center) and Miller (just passing police officer at right).
Mr. SouRwiNE. I show you another picture and ask you if you
recognize it.
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, I do. This is a picture of Mr. Shaw's home,
1057 East Grand Boulevard, in the city of Detroit.
Mr. SouRWiNE. It appears to be a man going up the steps. Do
you know who that man is ?
Mr. KowALSKi. It is an unidentified subject.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What was the occasion of this? Was it taken
on a particular date ?
Mr. KowALSKi. The approximate date would be January 22 when
a meeting of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee was held in the
home of Ed Shaw.
Mr. SouRwiNE. May this be received as exhibit 40, Mr. Chairman ?
Senator Keating. It will be received.
64139— 61— pt. 3 2
242 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
(The photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit 40," and is
reproduced below :)
%^ ^»«»*"W«
Exhibit No. 40. — Unidentified man approaching entrance to Shaw's house
where meeting of Fair Play Committee was held on that day.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know Rita Shaw ?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, I do.
Mr. SouRwiNE. She is the wife of Ed Shaw
Mr. KowALSKi. She is.
Mr. SouRWiNE (continuing). Concerning whom you have been
testifying?
Mr. KowALSKi. She is.
Mr. SouRWiNE. I show you another picture. Do you recognize
that picture ?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, I do.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What is that picture ?
Mr, KowALSKi. It is the picture of Rita Shaw demonstrating in
front of the Federal Building on April 20, 1961.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, by demonstrating you mean taking part in
a picket line?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, sponsored by the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee.
Mr. SouRwiNE. May this be received, Mr. Cliairman, as exhibit 41 ?
Senator Keating. It may be received.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
243
(The photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit 41," and is
reproduced below :)
Exhibit No. 41. — Rita Shaw (right) participating in picket line before Detroit
Federal Building, April 20, 1961.
Mr. SoiJRWiNE. Now, you mentioned a Martin Miller.
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Who is he ?
Mr. KowALSKi. I don't know too much about Mr. Martin Miller
other than the fact I have observed him in the picket line on
April 20, 1961, sponsored by the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I show you another picture, Mr. Kowalski. Can
you identify that picture ?
Mr. Kowalski. Yes, that is another picture, of Mr. Martin Miller.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Wliat is he doing in that picture ?
Mr. Kowalski. He is picketing in front of the old city hall in
the city of Detroit.
Mr. SouRwiNE. May this be received, Mr. Chairman ?
Senator Keating. It may be received, but I think I should ask
whether your files do contain derogatory information about Mr.
Miller.
Mr. Kowalski. They do not.
Senator Keating. They do not ?
Mr. Kowalski. They do not. Senator.
244 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
(The photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit 42," and is
reproduced below :)
i*;^*?ii;v';-:i^;-i'Ai;^S^:-;' - ■.
Exhibit No. 42. — Showing Martin Miller (third figure from right) marching
in picket line before old Detroit city hall.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know David Wellman ?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, I do.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Who is David Wellman ?
Mr. KowALSKi. David Wellman is the son of Sol and Mignon
Wellman, two active Communist Party members in the city of
Detroit.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Is he connected with the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee, to your knowledge ?
Mr. KowALSKi. I have observed Dave Wellman in attendance at
two Fair Play for Cuba Committee meetings in the city of Detroit.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I show you a picture. Can you identify it?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, I can.
Mr. SoTJRwiNE. What is this picture ?
Mr. KowALSKi. It is a picket line on April 20, 1961, sponsored
by the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and held in front of the
Federal Building in the city of Detroit,
Mr. SouRwiNE. Does it show any identifiable person that you
recognize?
Mr. Kow^\LSKi. Yes, it does.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Who?
Mr. KowALSKi. It shows David Wellman.
Mr. SoT7Rwi>rE. May this be received, Mr. Chairman, as exhibit 43?
Senator KJEATiNG. It will be received.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
245
(The photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit 43," and is
reproduced below:)
Exhibit No. 43. — David Wellman (with dark glasses, next to last) in picket
line before Detroit Federal Building.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I show you another picture.
Senator Keating. Mr. David Welhnan is in the room, is he not?
Will you point him out, Mr. Kowalski ?
Mr. Kowalski (pointing). He is directly behind Mr. Shaw there.
Mr. SouRWiNE. While you are on your feet, do you see Mr. Miller in
the room?
Mr. Kowalski. Yes, I do.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Is that Mr. Miller who j ust rose ?
Mr. Kowalski. That is Mr. Miller who just rose a little while ago.
Mr. SotJRWiNE. Can you identify this picture?
Mr. Kowalski. Yes, I can.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Of what is this a picture ?
Mr. Kowalski. A picture of a picket line sponsored by the Fair
Play for Cuba Committe held in front of the Federal Building in the
city of Detroit on April 20, 1961.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Does this picture show an individual that you
recognize ?
Mr. Kowalski. I recognize Dave Wellman in this photograph.
Mr. SouRWiNE. May this be admitted, Mr. Chairman ?
Senator Kjeating. It will.
246
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COIMMITTEE
(The photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit 44," and is re-
produced below :)
Exhibit No. 44.
-David Wellman walking beside woman at end of picket line
passing Federal Building in Detroit.
Mr. SouRWiNE. The chairman may be interested in the picture of
Castro on the placard that is being carried in that picture.
Do you know Joseph Bernstein ?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, I do.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What do you know about Mr. Bernstein in relation
to the Fair Play for Cuba Connnittee ?
Mr. KowALSKi. I have observed Mr. Bernstein at two Fair Play
for Cuba Committee meetings held in the city of Detroit.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I am not sure whether I asked you if you have
personally observed Ed Shaw in attendance at Fair Play for Cuba
meetings.
Mr. KowALSKi. I have observed Ed Shaw at the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee meetings in the city of Detroit.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. Did you ever see Mr. Bernstein under other cir-
cumstances than in attendance at the meetings of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee meetings?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes. Back in 1952 I observed Mr. Joseph Bern-
stein at congressional hearings held in the city of Detroit where a
Govermnent witness identified him as a ranking officer in the Com-
munist Party of Michigan.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 247
Mr. SouRWiNE. I show you a picture and ask you if you can identify
it-
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, it is Mr. Joseph Bernstein taking the oath at
the hearing.
Mr. SouRwiNE. May tliis be received as exhibit No. 45?
Senator Keating. It will be received.
(The photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 45," and is
reproduced below :)
Exhibit No. 45
248 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Reva Bernstein ?
Mr, KowALSKi. Yes, I do,
Mr. SouRwiNE, Is she the wife of Joseph Bernstein?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, she is,
Mr, SouRwiNE, Have you personally observed Reva Bernstein
entering the place at which a meeting of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee was being held ?
Mr, KowALSKi, I have,
Mr, SouRwiNE. Have you observed David Wellman at Fair Play
for Cuba Committee meetings ?
Mr, KowALSKi. I have.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, directing your attention specifically to
January 7, 1961, was there a meeting of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee on that date at 2230 Witherell Street, the central YWCA?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, sir, there was.
Mr. SouRwiNE. "Were Joseph and Reva Bernstein present, to your
knowledge, at that meeting?
Mr. KowALSKi. To the best of my recollection, they were.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was Martin Miller also present ?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. SoTJRwiNE. Directing your attention now to April 29, 1961,
was there a meeting of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee at 1920
25th Street, in Detroit, Mich. ?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. To your knowledge, was Ed Shaw present at that
meeting ?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, he was,
Mr. SouRwiNE. Were Joseph and Reva Bernstein also present?
Mr. KowALSKi. Joseph and Reva Bernstein were also present at
this meeting and Mr. Bernstein showed slides of his recent trip to
Cuba at this respective meeting.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Directing your attention to January 22, 1961, do
you know whether there was a meeting held at the home of Ed
Shaw at 1057 East Grand Boulevard on that date ?
JMr. KowALSKT. Yes, sir, there was.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know whether that was a meeting of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. KowALSKi. It was a meeting sponsored by the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know whether Nathan Rosenshine of Detroit
was present at that meeting ?
Mr. KowALSKi. No, sir, I do not know.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know whether Mr. Rosenshine's automobile,
a 1956 Chrysler sedan, license CJ-2054, 1961, was parked in front of
the Shaw home on the occasion of that meeting ?
Mr. KowALSKi. On this respective date, we did observe a teenager
in his late teens park the vehicle and enter the Shaw premises, 1057
East Grand Boulevard, where this Fair Play for Cuba Committee
meeting was in progress.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you identify this young man ?
Mr. KowALSKi. No, sir, I don't know him personally.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know if Martin Miller was present at this
particular meeting on January 22 ?
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 249
Mr. KowALSKi. No, sir, I don't.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you observe Martin Miller's automobile, a
1956 Ford, license GW 2311 parked in front of the Shaw home on
the occasion of this meeting ?
Mr. KowALSKi. Yes, that vehicle was picked up in the vicinity of
1057 East Grand Boulevard.
IVIr. SouRwixE. AVould you look around the room and see if you
can identify either Joseph Bernstein or Eeva Bernstein ?
]Mr. KowALSKi. Yes.
Senator Keating. Would Mr. and Mrs. Bernstein please rise?
Mr. KowALsKi. Sitting in the third row.
Senator Keating. Is tliat Mr. and Mrs. Bernstein ?
Mr. KowALSKi. Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Bernstein.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. Mr. Chairman, I have no more questions of this
witness.
Senator Keating. Thank you very much, Mr. Kowalski.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Sourwine. Ed Shaw.
Senator Keating. Mr. Shaw, would you raise your right hand?
Do you solemnly swear that the evidence that you give in this
proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Shaw. I do.
Senator Keating. Mr. Shaw, you are accompanied by your counsel,
is that correct ?
Mr. Shaw. That is correct.
Senator Keating. Counsel, give your name and address.
Mr. Faulkner. Stanley Faulkner, No. 9 East 40th Street, New
York 16, N.Y.
May I have a word, Mr. Senator? The previous witness, Stanley
Kowalski, testified that he is a police officer attached to the Detroit
Police Department. I think I am correct in that. He sat in yester-
day at what was supposed to be an executive session of the subcom-
mittee.
The record will disclose that I raised an objection to his presence,
or the presence of anyone except authorized personnel of the sub-
committee at an executive session.
I then was informed that everyone in that room was a member or
an authorized personnel of the subcommittee.
Senator Keating. No, you were not told that at all. You were
told that everyone in the room was authorized to be there.
Mr. Faulkner. Well, the record will speak for itself. There was
a record made of it yesterday.
Senator Keating. Proceed, counsel.
Mr. Sourwine. If the Chair will permit, I would like to get Mr.
Faulkners point.
Is he implying that the committee is not in control of who may be
present at its executive sessions?
Senator Keating. I see nothing to be gained by getting into a
wrangle between counsel.
Proceed with the witness.
64139— 61— pt. 3-
250 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
TESTIMONY OF EDWAED SHAW
Mr. SouRwiXE. Your full name, Mr. Shaw ?
Mr. Shaw. Edward Shaw.
Mr. SouRwiXE. And your address ?
Mr. Shaw. 1057 East Grand Boulevard, Detroit 7, Mich.
Mr. SouRwixE. You are presently employed by the Fair Plaj- for
Cuba Committee, is that not correct %
Mr. Shaw. Before I answer any questions, may I ask why I have
been called before this subcommittee ?
Mr. SouRwixE. Yes. This subcommittee is charged by the Senate
with the duty among others, of continuing investigation of the activi-
ties of the Communist Party, USA.
It is the committee's duty, as the committee conceives it, to keep
currently abreast, as fully as possible, of the activities of the Com-
munist Party and its fronts, its propaganda activities, its efforts at
reci-uitment, everything we can learn aljout Communist activity, so
that the committee may be in a position currently, at all tunes, to
appraise the extent of the threat; the particular threat presented by
new or different or altered or augmented Communist efforts in one
direction or another with a ^new to determining whether there is
legislation which can be framed and recommended which will help to
meet the Communist threat in any particular direction or to ameliorate
the effect of the Commimist activity or to strengthen the security of
this counry.
The committee has information that the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee was formed with the assistance of money provided by the
Communist Government of Cuba.
The committee has information that the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee is Communist-infiltrated; that Communists hold offices in some
of the chapters ; that they control some of the chapters.
The committee also has infonnation that the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee is used by the Commimist Party in its efforts to recruit
youth.
The committee is anxious to learn as much as possible alx)ut tlie Fair
Play for Cuba Committee. The Internal Security Subcommittee is
infonned that you are Midwest regional director of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee ; that you are chairman of the Fair Pla}' for Cuba
Committee Chapter in Detroit.
The committee therefore believes you to be in possession of infor-
mation respecting the activities of this committee and its members
which would be helpful to the committee in its purpose of learning
as much as possible about such activities.
Xow this is why 3'ou have been called.
iMr. Shaw. Having heard the reasons given, may I have pennission
to read a statement before inteiTogation ?
Senator Keating. No ; you answer the question. You may read the
statement at the conclusion of your testimony.
Go ahead, counsel.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, are vou emploved at the present time?
Mr. bHAW. I fail to see the pertniency of whether or not I am
eniployed, to the stated purpose of this committee's investigation.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer the question.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 251
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed to answer the question, I have no
other choice but to resort to the privileges guaranteed to me by the
Constitution of the United States under which I may not be forced
against my will to give testimony-which, at one time or another, may
bo construed as IxMug against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Air. Shaw, your present employment is by the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee, national headquarters, and you are
employed as Midwest regional representative, isn't that the fact?
Mr. Shaw. I prefer not to answer that question.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed, I have no other alternative than
to resort to the privileges guaranteed to me by the Constitution of the
United States as a citizen, under which I may not be forced to testify
against myself.
Mr. SouR^^^:NE. Mr. Chairman, we might be able to save time here.
The witness was asked a number of questions in executive session
yesterday.
May I inquire, Mr. Shaw, do you now desire to change in any way
or to augment or limit any of the answers you gave yesterday in exec-
utive session ?
Mr. Shaw. May I read my prepared statement in answer to that
question, because it contains the answers.
Senator Keating. Just answer the question and you will be per-
mitted to read your statement.
Mr. Shaw. No, sir.
Mr. Sour-wine. Mr. Chairman, might the order be that, subject to
the approval by the majority of the committee, which under the rule,
would be required, the executive session testimony of Mr. Shaw, the
present witness, be incorporated into this record at this point and we
might go on from there ?
Senator Keating. That will be so ordered.
(The executive session testimony of Mr. Shaw follows:)
TESTIMONY OF EDWIN SHAW (JUNE 14)
Mr, SouRwiNE. Would you be sworn ?
Mr. Shaw. Just a moment. Before the swearing I would like to
know why I am here.
Senator Dodd. You will be sworn and raise your right hand.
Mr. Shaw. Really, I think I would like to know why I am here.
Mr. SouRwiNE. We will explain this on the record, Mr. Shaw.
Mr. Shaw. This doesn't go on the record. I mean before being
sworn, nothing goes on the record.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Until you have been sworn.
Senator Dodd. I don't know if anything has gone on the record.
Mr. Shaw. I see him typing here.
Senator Dodd. He is typing what you are saying.
Mr. Shaw. Well, this isn't going on the record.
Senator Dodd. A^Tiat you are saying is going on.
Mr. Shaw. "\Aniat you would say would go on the record, too.
Senator Dodd. The oath.
Mr. Shaw. If you tell me why I am here that will go on the record,
would it not ?
252 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Dodd. You want to take the oath or not ?
Mr. Shaw. I want to take the oath and I want to know why I am
here. I would prefer to know why I am here before I take the oath.
Senator Dodd. I will give the oath to you now. I ask you to take
the oath.
Mr. SiiAW. Am I not required to be told wliy I am here ?
Mr. Faulkner. Let the record show that the witness is consulting
with counsel. I think that is what you would like to have on the
record, Senator.
Senator Dodd. I didn't ask for it.
Mr. Faulkner. You usually do.
Senator Dodd. I have had times wh-en you have taken long periods
of time with whispered conversations. You liave been particularly
offensive in these hearings. Everyone who has been in this hearing
has observed it as well as I.
Mr. Shaw. I will swear. You want me to stand ?
Senator Dodd. Yes. Kaise your right hand.
You solemnly swear the testimony you give before this committee
will be the truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Shaw. I do.
Senator Dodd. Sit down.
Mr. Faulkner. Excuse me. At this time, Senator, I object to any-
one being in the room in executive session unless they are duly au-
thorized personnel of the committee.
Senator Dodd. Everyone in this room is duly authorized to be
present.
Mr. Faulkner. I assume they are all Government employees.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Faulkner, the committee is wholly in control
of who may be present at its executive sessions. This is not a matter
within your control or a matter over which you have any right of
protest.
Senator Dodd. We will proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Faulkner. My protest is on the record.
Senator Dodd. Your protest is overruled.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Shaw, would you give the reporter your full
name and address, please?
Mr. Shaw. I thought I was to be told why I was here after I was
sworn.
Mr. Sourwine. We want to get your identity.
Mr. Shaw. There is another addition before I am told why I am
here.
Senator Dodd. He has been SM'orn and objected to taking the oath.
Senator Keating, as the record will show. We have put up with
Mr. Faulkner's conduct, his attempt to harass the committee, his
interruptions of the proceedings has been almost constant on every
occasion when he has been here as counsel for a witness.
This question from this witness is another interruption of the pro-
ceedings this morning.
Mr. Faulkner. I don't think those comments are worthy of any
rebuttal by me. The record speaks for itself. Senator.
Mr. Shaw. I have not objected to being sworn. I have asked to be
told why I am here.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMJVIITTEE 253
Are you Senator Dodd ?
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Mr. SiiAW. I was told by Senator Dodd after I was sworn I woidd
])e told why 1 am here and now they M'ant to ask me another ques-
tion before they tell me.
Senator Dodd. You ai'e asked for your name and address.
Mr. Shaw. I presume that is a question.
Senator Dodd. Do you want to give your name and address?
Mr. SiiAW. Yes; but I want to know why I am here. I came a
long way and I want to know what is going on.
Senator Dodd. You will be told.
Mr. Shaw. I wasn't told anything why I was here.
My name is Edwin Shaw. I live at 1057 East Grand Boulevard,
Detroit, Mich.
Mr. SotTtwiNE. Mr. Shaw, the Internal Security Subcommit-
tee of the Senate sits under a mandate which requires it to attempt
to keep itself currently abreast of the activities of the Communist
Party and its fronts; to try to keep abreast of the party's activities;
its propaganda ; its etforts at recruitment.
Senator Dodd. No smoking allowed in here.
Mr. Shaw. I saw the cigarette butts and I presumed that somebody
was smoking.
Senator Dodd. Well, just put it out and conduct yourself properly.
Mr. Shaw. I saw the cigarette butts and thought somebody was
smoking.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The committee has information that the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee is infiltrated by Communists and controlled by
Communists in some areas ; that Communists are assisting in the work
of the committee and its demonstrations.
We know that the Fair Play for Cuba Committee was started ■
Senator Dodd. Mr. Shaw^, will you please put that cigarette out?
Mr. Shaw. I thought I did.
]SIr. SouRwiNE. We know that the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
was started with the financial aid of the Communist regime in Cuba.
The committee has information that you are an official of the Fair
Play for Cviba Committee; that you have been active in the work
of this committee.
This committee believes you have information respecting the activ-
ities of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, and respecting Com-
munist infiltration of that committee, and you have been called be-
cause the committee thinks that you have information that will be
useful to it in its investigation of the Fair Pla^^ for Cuba Committee.
Senator Dodd. Very well, proceed Mr. Sourwine.
^Ir. Shaw. Is that the purpose of this meeting then? There is no
legislative purpose involved.
Senator Dodd. Yes; there is legislative purpose involved.
Mr. Shaw. I didn't hear any statement to that effect at all.
Mr. SouRAViNE. Mr. Shaw, the legislative purpose was clearly im-
plied, I think, but I am perfectly willing to explain it to you.
The reason the committee is under the mandate of the Senate to
keep currently informed on this situation is so that the committee may,
from time to time, and currently, evaluate the Communist threat in
its various aspects and determine what legislation, if any, may be
254 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMIMITTEE
proposed to meet these various threats or any of them or to counter
or minimize the effects of the various Commmiist moves.
It is in the pursuance of this purpose that the committee meets and
acts and it is in pursuance of this purpose that the committee sits
today and you should be advised that this committee always sits with
its full power and with its full authority.
The committee, itself, cannot divest itself of that authority and con-
fine itself to only a small fraction of the authority which has been
conveyed to it by the Senate.
Senator Dodd. All right, go ahead.
Mr. SouRwiXE. Mr. Shaw, what is your business or profession?
Mr. Shaw. I hardly see how this is pertinent to an investigation
of the Communist danger to the United States, and in order to keep
myself clear of any legal complications which I imfortunately
wouldn't l^e able to understand
Senator Dodd. You have your lawj^er right at your elbow.
Mr. SiiAW\ I understand that, and I have spoken to the lawyer be-
fore and I would prefer not to answer that question.
Senator Dodd. The Chair instructs and orders you to answer the
question.
Mr. Shaw. I must repeat that in keeping with my desire to avoid
any legal difficulties arising from this hearing, I must resort to my
legal rights under the Constitution to prevent my being forced to be
a witness against myself.
Senator Dodd. Proceed, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. SouRwixE. Mr. Shaw, is your wife the same Rita Shaw who
was a candidate for attorney general for the State of Michigan on
the Socialist Workers Party ticket in N'ovember of 1960?
Mr. Shaw. I fail still to see pertinency to any legislative purpose
arising from such a question.
Senator Dodd. Let me tell you. I am sure you know very well
that in order for us to properly conduct a hearing we want to estab-
lish your identity. This was the reason we asked your name and
address. You refused to answer that question. We have had great
difficulty with you. We are trying to establish your identity with
your occupation, what you do and elicit other facts which will help
us in our work here as a legislative committee of the Senate.
Xow I want to instruct you again to answer the question.
i\Ir. Shaw. I think the record will show that some of the reasons
are good that I have. I am resorting to my rights simply out of one
fact where Senator Dodd said I refused to give my name. I think
the record will show that I did not refuse to give my name, and it
is such distortions of hearings such as this which can lead people to
draw wrong conclusions which force me to resort to my rights.
Senator Dodd. We don't need any speeches about the record. The
record will speak for itself.
If you want to be as disruptive as you can, go right ahead and do
it and the record will speak and we know what to do with the record
when this hearing is over with. I am trying to get you to show some
sense. You have been asked a very simple question. You were asked
to take the oath and you created a disturbance about that.
You were asked to give your name and address and 3'ou gave us
difficulty over that.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 255
We are trying to get further identifying data and you are giving
us more trouble. Whatever course you want to pursue, there is noth-
ing we can do about it,
Mr. ^SiiAW, My I read a statement into the record ?
Senator Dodd. Not at this time.
Go on with your questions, Mr. Sourwine.
]N[r. SiiAW. I think you ordered me and directed me to answer the
question and 1 failed to complete my answer to your ordering and
directing.
Senator Dodd. I think you completed it.
Go on, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Shaw. I want to include, however
Senator Dodd. If you are going to interrupt this hearing any more
I will have a mai-shal take you out of the building.
Mr. Shaw. The record will show I was not allowed
Senator Dodd. You are not going to disrupt us.
Go ahead, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Faulkner. I don't think the witness answered the last ques-
tion wliich he was ordered and directed to answer.
Senator Dodd. I asked him to answer it. I would like to have it
answered.
Mr. Shaw. I want to conclude
Senator Dodd. Maybe we better get the question again.
Mv. Sourwine. The question is whether your wife is the same Rita
Shaw who was a candidate for attorney general of the State of
Michigan on the Socialist Workers Party ticket in November of 1960.
Mr. Shaw. I had begun to answer that and I will conclude by say-
ing that I feel I have to resort to my constitutional rights in which
I may not be forced, under which I may not be forced to be a witness
against myself.
INIr. Sourwine. Mr. Shaw, the committee has information that you
asked for and received a lea^^e of absence from your former employ-
ment so that you could devote full time to the activities of the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee. Is this correct?
Mr. Shaw. Before answering that question, I would like to know
is it possible to read a statement into the record at one point or an-
other in the proceedings ?
Senator Dodd. You will have an opportunity to make any state-
ment you want to. But you will not be permitted to interrupt these
questions.
Mr. Shaw. I see. I am curious. I would like to know what time.
It is pertinent.
Senator Dodd. I am glad to hear that because you are certainly
doing your best up to this point to interrupt us.
Proceed, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Shaw. I am afraid that such
Senator Dodd. Please don't interrupt us any more. If you are in
here just to interfere and disrupt us
Mr. Shaw (interposing). I believe I was supposed to answer a
question.
Senator Dodd. Please hold your speech while the Chair is talking.
You have been the most difficult witness I have seen in my 3 years
here. We have never had any such trouble with any other witness
256 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
in this period of time as we have had Avith you this morning, to
my knowledge.
Will you proceed, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. Is the statement correct that you asked for and re-
ceived a leave of absence from your former employment so that j-ou
could devote full time to the activities of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee ?
Mr. Shaw. I had begun to answer that question and I was inter-
rupted by the Chair. I fail to see the pertinency of this question and
therefore don't feel obliged to answer.
Mr. SoLTRWixE. The question is pertinent, Mr. Shaw, because if
you are, in fact, a full-time employee or servant of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee it qualifies you as a witness who can answer ques-
tions about the activities of that committee.
Senator Dodd. The Chair instructs and orders you to answer the
question.
Mr. Shaw. Again, I must resort to my constitutional rights as an
American citizen to wit, under which I may not be forced to be a
witness against myself.
i\Ir. Sourwine. ]Mr. Shaw, are you a member of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee ?
jSIr. Shaw. I fail to see the pertinency of these questions.
Mr. Sourwine. The pertinency of this question is the same as the
last instance, if yotl are a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Commit-
tee it qualifies 3^011 as a person who can give this committee informa-
tion and the committee's information is that you are a member and
officer of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and we want this fact
on the record and I asked you about it.
Mr. SiiAw. I prefer not to answer that question.
Senator Dodd. The Chair instructs and orders you to answer the
question.
Mr. Shaw. Again, I must resort to my constitutional privileges
and rights.
Senator Dodd. "What are they? What ones are you asserting?
Mr. Shaw. I am asserting the constitutional right which was in-
serted as a part of the Constitution and was called the Bill of Rights
whereby an American citizen may not be forced to testifj'^ against
himself.
Senator Dodd. Very well.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Shaw, what meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee have you attended ?
Mr. Shaw. This question is certainly one Avhich is very peculiar
since it has not been established I attended any meetings.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Shaw, the committee will establish that you
have attended the meetings. The question is pertinent because we
want to get your own testimony with respect to the meetings you
have attended and what happened there.
Will you answer the question ?
Mr. Shaw. No ; I prefer not to.
Senator Dodd. Tlie Chair orders and instructs you to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. I must again resort to my constitutional privileges and
rights.
Senator Dodd. Go ahead, Mr. Sourwine.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 257
Mr. SiiAW. To not be forced to be a witness against myself.
Mr. SouuwixE. Mr. Sliaw, specifically were you not present at a
meeting- of the organizing committee for the Detroit Chapter of the
Fair Play for Cuba Conmiittee on November 6, 1960, at 904 West
Forest Avenue in Detroit ?
Mr. SiiAW, Iprefer not to answer that question.
Senator Dodd. Well, you are instructed and ordered again to answer
the question.
^Ir. SiiAW. I must again resort to my constitutional privileges not
to be required or forced to give testimony or be a w^itness against
myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, isn't it true that at that meeting on
November 6, 1960, you asked to be temporary chairman of the meeting
because of your previous experience with the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee ?
Mr. Shaw. I prefer not to answer that question also.
Senator Dodd. If we have to go through this format all the time,
the Chair orders you and instructs you to answer it
Mr. Shaw (interposing). I again feel obliged to resort to my
constitutional rights.
Senator Dodd (continuing). In order to save us time, why don't
you simply assert each time your claim of constitutional privilege
rather than go through this "I prefer not to answer" and then wait
for me to order you and then assert your claim ?
Mr. Shaw. Time seems to be no problem since I was here since
10 :30.
Senator Dodd. Very well. If you waste the time and delay the
Senate committee, let that appear on the record.
Go ahead, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. SouRw^iNE, Mr. Chairman, with the Chair's permission I would
like to inform this witness that, if he thinks he can outwait the com-
mittee or that he can create a situation by which he will be excused
from testifying, he is very much mistaken. I hope I expressed the
sentiment of the committee.
Senator Dodd. I can assure the witness this is a fact.
Mr. SouEwixE. Isn't it true, Mr. Shaw, that on the occasion of
the November 6, 1960, meeting of the organizing committee for a
Detroit Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, you asked to
be temporary chairman because of your previous experience with the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Shaw. I again feel obliged not to be required to answer that
question.
Mr. Sourwine. On what grounds?
Mr. Shaw. On the grounds that I don't see that it is pertinent and
[ cannot be a party to any activity of this committee which may
restrict the freedom of assembly and rights of other people.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Shaw, the pertinency of the question rests in
the fact that your presence at this meeting, if you will testify about
it, lays the foundation of your ability to give us information respect-
ing what happened there.
The claim of first amendment privilege does not avail you because
your first amendment rights do not encompass the right to refuse
to testify.
64139— '61— pt. 3 4
258 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. Shaw. I have not yet been forced to rely upon the basis of
those rights.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. I ask the witness be instructed.
Senator Dodd. The Chair orders and instructs you to answer.
Mr. Shaw. I must rely upon my basic constitutional privilege of
not being required to bear witness against myself.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you aware of Commimist infiltration of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Senator Dodd. Please now, you don't need to write down each
question as it is asked as you are apparently doing and take these long
periods of delay between the question and the answer. You are not
consulting your lawyer. You are just obviously delaying us as much
as you can.
I want the record to show every detail of what has been going on
here this morning.
Go ahead, Mr. Sourwine, and will you please answer that question,
Mr. Witness ?
Mr. Shaw. What was the question ?
Mr. SouRwiisrE. Are you aware of Communist infiltration of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Shaw. I prefer not to answer that question.
Senator Dodd. You are ordered and instructed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. And again I will have to resort to my basic constitu-
tional guarantees and privileges and rights, particularly the one under
which I am not required to bear witness against myself.
Mr. SouR-wiNE. Mr. Shaw, I put it to you as a fact and ask you to
deny it if it is untrue, that a closed meeting was held at your home in
November or December of 1960, at which certain phases of the activ-
ities of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee were discussed.
Mr. Shaw. I feel the same way about every question that seems to
come up.
If I may read a statement into the record perhaps we can get at least
my position clarified.
Senator Dodd. These questions are very simple and you have been
told several times that all you need do is answer and you will be given
a full opportunity to make any statement you want to make. But
we have some questions to ask you. You have been doing your best
to prevent us from doing so. But we are going to ask them no matter
how long it takes, and you are now ordered and instructed to answer
the question that is pending.
Mr. Shaw. I must again resort to my constitutional rights under
which I may not be forced to give testimony against myself.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Shaw, at the November 6, 1960, organizing
meeting for the Detroit chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee,
Ben Creech was appointed temporary recording secretary. Do you
know Ben Creech as a member of the Socialist Workers Party ?
Mr. Shaw. Well, I certainly don't intend to be called here to testify
about other people's political beliefs and anything of that nature,
because I feel that these are purely personal things and I have not
inquired into the committee's political beliefs and I hope they won't
inquire into mine or any people they may feel that I know.
Senator Dodd. You answer the question. You are instructed and
ordered to answer the question.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 259
Mr. SiiAW. Then I must resort again to my constitutional right
under which I am not required to be forced to be a witness against
myself.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Shaw, at that meeting on November 6, 1960,
a temporary steering committee was appointed, all assignments for the
steering colnmittee being voluntaiy. You were one member of that
steering committee, were you not ?
Mr. Shaw. Again, I feel that this is an attempt to smear some
people and I just can't go along with it any more than I am forced
to do so.
Senator Dodd. You are ordered and instructed to answer the
question.
Mr. Shaw. Then I must resort to my constitutional rights and
refuse to be forced into giving testimony against myself.
Senator Dodd. Proceed.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Eniest Mazey, chairman of the Detroit Labor
Forum, was another member of that steering committee, was lie not?
Mr. Shaw. May I confer with my counsel for a moment ?
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Now have you completed your conference ?
]Mr. Shaw. Yes, I have.
Senator Dodd, Proceed with the questions.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. You remember the question ?
Senator Dodd. Repeat the question.
Mr. Shaw. It dealt, I think, with a person.
Senator Dodd. Well, let's get it right.
Mr. SouRwnNE. My question was: Ernest Mazey of the Detroit
Labor Forum was another member of that steering committee, was
he not ?
Mr. Shaw. Since I presume it is obvious that I am not going to
cooperate with this committee in its attempt to investigate political
and personal attitudes of persons, I wonder if I may just simply resort
to saying that, for reasons previously stated, I prefer not to answer
these questions.
Senator Dodd. No. I think you are required to state your reasons.
Mr. Shaw. All right, sir.
Senator Dodd. Sometime ago I asked you not to go through this
formula that you have been using. Obviously you were using it for
the purpose of using up time, but it is required that you assert your
privilege; that is, what your refusal to answer is based on. You
assert your constitutional privilege.
Mr. Shaw. I didn't understand that previously, but I am willing
to do whatever you order me to do.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The committee, sir, is not ordering you to claim
your fifth-amendment privilege in any case and if your sole purpose
here is to refuse cooperation with the committee, then there is no fifth-
amendment privilege available to you for that purpose.
The fifth-amendment privilege is personal to you. It is a pro-
tection to you. You have the right to claim it when you honestly
fear that a truthful answer to the question would incriminate you
or tend to form a link in a chain to connect you with a prosecution.
If you do not have that honest fear, you do not have the right to
claim the privilege.
260 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Will you answer the question ?
Senator Dodd. Wait a minute. Is the record perfectly clear ? The
chairman told the witness it would be necessary for him to assert
his claim of constitutional privilege as a basis for refusal to answer
aflid the Chair is right in that, and I must insist that he do so under
each question.
Mr. SouRWiXE. Mr. Chairman, I had in mind only the possibility
that the witness was attempting to make the record as though the
chairman had instructed him that he should make the claim when
it is really clear that the Chair is only telling the witness that when
he wishes to claim the privilege, he must say so.
Senator Dodd. That is right.
Mr. SouRwixE. The pending question is as to whether Ernest
Mazey, chairman of the Detroit Labor Forum, was another member
of the steering committee appointed at the November 6, 1960, organ-
izing meeting for a Detroit chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee.
Mr. Shaw. Again, I feel that this may infringe upon my rights
and I prefer not to answer that question.
Senator Dodd. Well, the Chair instructs and orders you to answer
the question.
Mr. Shaw. Then I feel forced to resort to my constitutional privi-
leges under which I may not be required to give testimony against
myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. David Herreshoff, professor of English and litera-
ture at Wayne State University was another member of that steering
committee, was he not ?
Mr. Shaw. This question is similar to the previous one.
Senator Dodd. You don't have to describe these questions, charac-
terize them, or give lengthy comments every time a question is asked.
Now you either answer the question or tell us your reason for not
answering it ; that is, your reason, based on your constitutional rights.
We don't care what your opinion of the question is or to hear your
comments on it and from this point on I am not going to permit
you to engage in any more of these activities here. If you don't
want to answer questions, you say so and you can say why,
Mr. Shaw. I had intended that my comments would explain why
I preferred not to answer that question. However, if I am not
allowed to do that
Senator Dodd. You are not explaining when you start to charac-
terize counsel's questions. You are not explaining your refusal to
answer.
Well, we are waiting for you. Are you going to answer the
question or not ?
Mr. Shaw. I prefer not to answer that question.
Senator Dodd. The Chair orders and instructs you to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Then I will have to resort to my constitutional privi-
leges and guarantees under which I may not be required to give testi-
mony against myself.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Other members of that steering committee were
Mr. Mazev, Arnold Kessler, who is affiliated with the Socialist
Workers t*arty, and Dorothy Breitman, also affiliated with the
Socialist Workers Party, is that not true ?
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 261
Mr. SiiAw. I feel obliged not to especially answer questions con-
cerning other people's political beliefs, and I ]ust prefer not to answer
that question.
Senator Dodd. Then you are ordered and instructed to answer it.
Mr. SiiAw. Then I am forced to rely upon my constitutional
guarantees under Avhich I may not be forced to give testimony against
myself.
'Senator Dodd. Don't you understand, Mr. Witness, that your pref-
erence, as you put it, not to answer questions is no excuse for not
answering a question ?
]\Ir. Shaw. I like to think of it as an additional excuse, sir.
Senator Dodd. We are not interested. We have a lot of work to
do in the Senate. We are not particularly interested in what your
feelings are about these questions.
Now if you want to assert your constitutional claims, then you are
perfectly iree to do so. But you don't have to go into a lengthy
dissertation about these questions every time one is asked you.
Go ahead, Mr. Sourwine.
Air. Sourwine. Mr. Shaw, in an effort to shorten the proceedings
by reducing the number of required answers I put this to you as a
statement of fact and ask you to deny it if it is untrue, to correct
it if it is in any respect inaccurate : that on November 8, 1960, there
was a closed meeting of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee at your
home ; that you spoke at that meeting, and at that meeting Dorothy
Breitman was named the coordinator of the so-called Christmas in
Cuba project.
Mr. Shaw. I again prefer not to answer that question.
Senator Dodd. Well, the Chair instructs you and orders you to
answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Under those conditions then I feel obliged to resort
to my constitutional guarantees under which I may not be required
to give witness against myself.
Mr. Sourwine. I put it to you as a statement of fact, Mr. Shaw,
and ask you to deny it if it is untrue, t-o correct it if it is in any
respect inaccurate, that you acted as chairman of a meeting at Mc-
Gregor Center, Wayne State University, November 18, 1960; the
theme of the meeting being "Eye Witness to Cuba" and Paul Sweezey
being the principal speaker.
Mr. Shaw. Again, I simply cannot see the pertinency of these
questions and I will not give testimony which may, in some way
or another, interfere with people's rights to hold meetings freely
and to discuss, and so on.
Mr. Sourwine. The pertinency of the question, Mr, Shaw, stems
from the fact that this was an activity of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee and that the committee is interested in the activities of
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
Will you answer the question ?
Mr. Shaw. I prefer not to answer it.
Senator Dodd, You are ordered and instructed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Then I feel obliged to again resort to my constitutional
rights, under which I may not be forced to give testimony against
myself.
262 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Shaw, is Paul Sweezey a member of the Fair
Play For Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Shaw. This question again deals with people's associations.
Senator Dodd. "We know what the question deals with. Will you
answer the question or not ?
Mr. Shaw. No.
Senator Dodd. You are ordered then and instructed to do so.
Mr. Shaw. Then I must again resort to my constitutional priv-
ileges under which I may not be required to give testimony against
myself.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. Mr. Shaw, I put it to you as a statement of fact
and ask you to deny it if it is untrue or correct it if it is inaccurate :
that on December 9, 1960, you attended and spoke at a Fair Play
For Cuba Committee meeting and program in room 206, State
Hall, Wayne University, that you were introduced by Harriet
Taland, who chaired the meeting and at that meeting, slides on
Cuba were shown, with Robert Himmel operating the slide projector.
Mr. Shaw. I feel these questions will lead to a hindrance upon
people's rights to hold public meetings and discussions, and infringe-
ment of their first constitutional guarantees.
Senator Dodd. You are ordered and instructed to answer the
question.
Mr. Shaw. Then I will be forced to resort to my constitutional
privileges and rights under which I may not be required to be a
witness against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, do you know Harriet Talan and
Robert Himmel as affiliated with the Socialist Workers Party?
Mr. Shaw. I don't want to answer questions about people's political
affiliations.
Senator Dodd. You are ordered and instructed to answer the
question.
Mr. Shaw. And again I must resort to the constitutional guar-
antees under which I may not be forced to give testimony against
myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, you are the Edwin Shaw who is mid-
west regional representative of the Fair Play For Cuba Committee,
are you not ?
Mr. Shaw. I prefer not to answer that question.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 263
Senator Dodd. You are instructed and ordered to answer it.
;Mr. Shaw. Then I must, under my constitutional guarantees, one
of w^hich guarantees that I may not be forced to be a witness against
myself, I nuist decline to answer that question.
'^Mr. SoiRwixE. Didn't you take part in establishing a Detroit
Chapter of the Fair Play For Cuba Committee ?
Mr, Shaw. Again I prefer not to answer the question.
Senator Dodd. You are ordered and instructed to answer it.
Mv. Sha^v. Then again I must take refuge in my constitutional
guarantees, one of which I may not be required to give testimony
against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, I show you a photostat of a letter dated
October 18, 1960, and signed with the name, Edward Shaw. Art-
you the Edward Shaw who signed that letter?.
Mr. Shaw. May I ask advice of my counsel ?
Senator Dodd. You don't have to have permission to ask advice of
your counsel.
Mr. Shaw, All right.
Senator Dodd, You have been asking his advice right along here.
You know, it is not necessary to cover your face if you confer. If
you would like to step outside, you can do that.
^Ir. Shaw. There is no need to take that time from the committee.
Air. Faulkner. Do you object to our covering our faces?
Senator Dodd. I say there is no need to do it. If you want more
privacy w^e will be glad to make it available to you.
Mr, Faulkner. It won't be necessary.
Mr, Shaw. I must decline to answer that question.
Senator Dodd. You are ordered and instructed to answer the
question.
]Mr. Shaw. Then I must resort to my constitutional privileges
and rights under which I may not be required to give testimony
against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I ask that this letter may go into the record at
this point, JSIr. Chairman.
Senator Dodd. It may be included.
264 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
(The letter referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 46" and reads as
follows:)
Exhibit No. 46
ikiward Shaw
1057 E. Grand Blvd.
Det. 7, hich.
October 18, I960
Dear Friend,
Robert Taber, Executive Secretary of the Fair Play for Cuba Conmittee,
will be in Detroit next Sunday, October 23. Hia main purpoce in visiting
Detroit i3 to help establish a Detroit chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba
Comndttee.
The aim of the FPCC is to combat the lies, distortions and omissions
of fact that are unfortunately typical of most stories about Cuba today
in magazines and newspapers and on radio and television.
Everyone who would like to help overccaae the ignorance, distrust
and fear of Cuba which stems from false reporting is invited to attend
the meeting where Mr. Taber will further explain the work of the com-
mittee and offer his suggestions for the formation of a Detroit Chapter.
A short film, "Year of Freedom, " which provides graphic examples
of the Cuban p>eople's struggle to improve their lot will be shown after
the meeting.
TIM: Sunday, October 23, at 4:00 p.m. sharp
PLACE: 904 West Forest Ave (near 4th)
Sincerely,
For further information please call WA 4-8037
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 265
Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you tell us, Mr. Shaw, to whom copies of
tliis letter were sent ?
JVIr. Shaw. Well obviously, I will decline to answer that question.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Why?
Mr. SiiAw. Because it is related to the previous question which
I declined to answer.
Senator Dodd. You are ordered and instructed to answer the
question.
Mr. Shaw. Then I am obliged to resort to my constitutional guar-
antees under which I may not be required to give testimony against
myself.
Senator Dodd. We will recess and be back at 2 :30.
Mr. Shaw. That is today, I presume.
Senator Dodd. Today, yes.
(Whereupon, at 12 noon the subcommittee recessed to reconvene
at 3 p.m. of the same day. )
Senator Keating (presiding). The subcommittee will come to
order.
Proceed, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Shaw
Mr. Faulkner. Mr. Senator, may I again place my objection on
the record, which I did this morning, that this being an executive
session, as I understand, that I object to anyone being in the room
other than authorized pei-somiel of the committee.
Senator Keating. Everyone in the room is authorized by the com-
mittee to be here.
Your objection is overruled.
Proceed, counsel.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Shaw, will you tell the committee who pays
your salary as midwest regional director of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee ?
Mr. Shaw. I feel obliged not to answer that question.
Senator Iveating. Wait a minute. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. Then I must resort to my constitutional rights and
privileges, one of which requires that I may not be forced to be a
witness against myself.
Mr. Sourwine. Have you, sir, received payments from the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee headquarters in New York ?
Mr. Shaw. I again prefer not to answer that.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. I must again rely upon my constitutional guarantees
under which I may not be required, against my will, to testify
against myself.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Shaw, have you been active in the organization
of Fair Play for Cuba Committee units on the campuses of Wayne
State University and the University of Michigan?
Mr. Shaw. I again must decline to answer.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. I then again must resort to my constitutional guaran-
tees mider which I may not be forced to testify against myself.
64139— 61— pt. 3-
266 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, I believe that today we are not going
to get any information of a helpful nature out of this witness.
It may be that at a later date, as the Supreme Court has pointed
out, he might answer some of our questions. I suggest he be helcit
over for hearing tomorrow.
Senator Keating. That will be done. I want to ask one question.
Are you a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Shaw. I must again, because I feel that this may jeopardize
me some time in the future, if I participate in answering it for
the record on swoitl testimony, questions which relate to my political
convictions and so forth, I prefer not to answer that question.
Senator I^vting. You are directed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Then I must resort to my constitutional privileges and
guarantees under which I may not be forced against my will to
testify or give testimony which may be at some time or another used
agamst me.
Senator Keating. Anything else, counsel ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Not today, sir, unless the Chair desires that we go
further.
I think it would be fruitless today. We might have better success
tomorrow.
Mr. Shaw. May I then read my statement ?
Senator Keating. How long is it ? One page ?
Mr. Shaw. Less than one page.
Senator Keating. Go ahead.
Mr. Shaw. As an American whose lineage can be traced to an-
cestors who took part in the birth of the United States of America
as an independent and sovereign nation, I am proud to have been
called before this subcommittee. It is no accident that the Senator
from Mississippi, who signed the subpena ordering me to testify
today, a Senator who does not recognize the first amendment or the
fourteenth amendment to our Constitution, who comes from a State
which does not allow nearly half of its adult citizens to vote, who,
with his colleagues on this subcommittee, is attempting to smear and
stifle those who would uphold the integiity, dignity and honor of the
United States, should consider me a danger to his concept of the
American way of life.
Attack by this subcommittee implies recognition by the enemies
of freedom at home and abroad that my efforts on behalf of freedom
and truth have been to some avail. I feel honored.
I will not be intimidated into cooperating with you m your efforts
to suppress the free expression of public indignation over the illegal
and immoral invasion of Cuba by the U.S. GoveiTmient and its Cen-
tral Intelligence Agenc}'. To fncilitate furtlier warlike moves against
Cuba, this inquisitorial body is trying to subvert freedom of expres-
sion and other traditional liberties, to intimidate individuals and
organizations who dare to speak and write the truth and to cover
the entire Nation with that atmosphere of prejudice, hatred, fear,
and oppression which persists in the home State of Mr. Eastland
and to which he owes his present position as U.S. Senator.
Senator Keating. The only comment of the chairman is that, as
one who also traces his lineage on one side to our early days, he is
bound to say that he welcomes those patriotic, naturalized citizens
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMISIITTEE 267
and new citizens of tliis country who have lived under Communist
tyranny and who cooperate with this connnittee in its eli'orts to meet
this international menace.
]\Iost of the Americans, over 99 percent of them, who similarly trace
their lineage, also cooperate with this committee. Fortunately, for our
country, it is only a small number who refuse.
You are directed to appear here at 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.
(End executive testimony.)
Senator Keating. Does that complete the witness except for the
reading of his statement?
Mr. SouRwiNE. No, it does not. I have a number of other questions,
Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Shaw, on November 8, 1960, there was a closed meeting of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee at your home, was there not ?
Mr. Shaw. May I confer with my counsel, please, for a moment?
This question was asked yesterday and I believe I have already
answered the interrogator here that I do not intend to cooperate
to any greater degree today than I did yesterday, and I fail to see his
purpose in pursuing this line of argument.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. Having been ordered by the subcommittee to answer
the question, I have no other alternative but to resort to the guaran-
tees of our Constitution so wisely inserted in the Bill of Rights by
our forefathers, under which I may not be forced, against my will, to
give any evidence under oath which could at some time or another,
be used against me.
Mr. SouKwiNE. All right, sir.
Senator Cotton. Just a moment. I would like to ask the witness
a question. I was unable to be here yesterday. I would like, in view
of your observation about the wisdom and the justice of the fifth
amendment of the Constitution, to ask you : Would you be prepared
to defend our Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic ?
Mr. Shaw. Of course, sir.
Senator Cotton. You would?
Mr. Shaw. Yes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. If this country should get into an open war with
the Soviet Union, would you fight for the United States ?
Mr. Shaw. I fail to see the relevancy of this question to the stated
purpose of the committee.
Mr. SouRwiNE. This question is designed to test the credibility of
the witness' answer to the question just asked and answered.
Mr. Shaw. I must say that, in any case of any war between two
countries, I will always be on the side of justice.
Senator Kjsating. That is not an answer to the question, Mr.
Witness.
You are directed to answer the question put to you by counsel.
Mr. Shaw. Please repeat the question ?
Mr. SouiiwiNE. In the event the United States should get into an
open war with the Soviet Union, would you fight for this country?
Mr. Shaw. Well, I must say that my experience in the Armed
Forces of this country and later experiences with witch-hunting sub-
committees of the Senate and the Congress, I probably would not be
allowed to fight in any war that this country engaged in.
268 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Cotton. What do you mean by your statement that, if this
counti-y was engaged in a war, you would be on the side of justice?
Do you mean you might fight against this country if you felt that
justice was on the other side ?
Mr. Shaw. I mean, sir, that, along with certain forefathers of
mine who fought against King George of England for the independ-
ence of this Nation, I find justice the highest aim of mankind and
national determination as a secondary consideration.
Senator Iveating. You mean to say that you might, under some
circumstances, find justice on the side of sonie enemy of the United
States and would fight on their side against the United States ?
Mr. Shaw. I did not mean to say that.
Senator Keating, Well, will you answer the question ?
Senator Cotton. Just a moment. You said you would be on the
side of justice.
Now that answer, if you intended it — and you apparently are very
thoughtful in your answers and advised by counsel and watching
every word — if you intended that answer, it doesn't simply mean
that you would be nonactive or refuse to fight for the United States.
You said you would be on the side of justice, which means you would
conceivably actively fight against this country.
Did you mean that or did you not ?
Mr. Shaw. May I ask if I would be allowed to fight for the United
States?
Senator Cotton. I don't know anything about what you would
be allowed to fight for. I am not the witness here.
Mr. Shaw. I understand your sentiments.
Senator Cotton. What is that ?
Mr, Shaw, I say I understand your sentiments.
Senator Cotton. I have taken an oath to support and defend the
Constitution of this coimtry. I am asking you, sir.
Mr. Shaw. I have also.
Senator Cotton. What do you mean by that answer ?
Mr, Shaw, I have taken an oath to support and defend the Con-
stitution of this country.
Senator Cotton, Will you answer my question ?
By your answer that you would be on the side of justice, did you
mean that, conceivably, you might fight against the United States if
you thought that the cause of justice lay on the other side ?
Mr, Shaw. Because of certain legal technicalities which I under-
stand often have no connection with reason or logic, I would like to
confer with my counsel in this.
Sir, I truly, under present circumstances, can conceive of no situa-
tion in which I would not defend the United States against any of
its enemies.
However, my statement was intended to convey the fact that there
is, some time in the future perhaps, the remote possibility that the
Government of the United States could be captured or overthrown
by either a Fascist government, perhaps something in the nature of
the John Birch Society, with whom I disagree, might capture the
Government of the United States and under those circumstances. I
would feel the Government of the ITnited States, if this possibility
should ever occur, would not be the United States itself and to fight
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 269
against any tyrannical government wliich could possibly develop in
this country in the future I think would be in the best interest of the
people and the country of the United States.
Senator Keating. In other words, your position is that if this
Government was under the control of people with whom you disagree,
then you would feel free to fight against this Government.
jMr. SiiAw. Sir, I do not appreciate your putting other words in
my mouth because they are not other words from me.
I say if, in addition to my disagreemg with them, I would disagree
with tliem because they were either facist or tyrants and I do dis-
agree with fascists and tyrants
Senator Cotton. By that you mean the possibility of the Govern-
ment being overthrown by violence or by different people ?
Mr. Shaw. To my knowledge, the possibility of the Government
being overthrown by the will of the people is extremely limited, and
I don't foresee the possibility that the Government of the United
States will ever be overthrown in that context and replaced by a
tyrannical government through a vote of the people, because tyranny
does not rest upon the will of the people.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, if this Government should intervene in
Cuba to eliminate communism from that island republic, would you
support the United States in this effort ?
^Ir. Shaw. Sir, I would find myself with a great problem there
because I would not care to violate any of the laws of the United
States and I understand our neutrality act forbids any such venture
on my part and therefore, such testimony at this time could certainly
compromise me, my position.
Senator Iveating. Wait a minute, counsel. Let's get some order
here.
Now you have asked this witness a question and I want the question
answered. Are there circumstances imder which, if this country
became engaged in a war with the Soviet Union that you would fight
on the side of the Soviet Union ?
Mr. Shaw. I beg your pardon. I was interrupted by a representa-
tive of the press.
Senator Keating. Are there circumstances under which, if this
country should find itself engaged in the war with the Soviet Union,
you would actually fight on the side of the Soviet Union ?
Mr. Shaw. I can't conceive of any circumstances under which that
would be the case.
Senator Iveating. Go ahead.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you the same Edward Shaw who was intro-
duced as the regional director of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
at a meeting of that committee on December 9, 1960, in room 206,
State Hall, Wayne University ?
Mr. Shaw. This question also was asked yesterday and since the
testimony is going to be included in today's record, I really see no
point is pursunig these things any further.
Mr. SouRwiNE. This question is asked in the hope you might today
answer it, even though you refused to do so yesterday.
Mr. Shaw. Well, I beg your pardon, sir. But I am not experienced
in these matters and this is my first opportunity that I have ever had
to meet a real live Senator face to face or even counsel such as your-
270 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
self, and I fail to find your reasoning or your method of reasoning
very appealing to me. You have already asked me.
Senator Keating. We are not interested in your dissertations, Mr.
Shaw. You will either answer the question or you will decline to
answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Well, I decline to answer it because I have already an-
swered it yesterday when this question was asked of me and the record
is going to be inserted, I understand, in the public hearing.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed, I have no other alternative but
to resort to the guarantees of our Constitution under which I can-
not be forced, against my will, to give testimony which may be
constiTied as being against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, I show you a letter which is in our
records from yesterday which has what pui-ports to be your signature
at the bottom. I will give you an opportunity if you will do so, to
identify that signature.
Mr. Shaw. I must answer this question, also, the same as I did
yesterday.
Mr. SouEwiNE. Mr. Chairman, I ask that this be shown to the
witness, this is the expense voucher, Mr. Shaw, which you signed this
morning. Can you identify your signature on that voucher?
Mr. Shaw. What kind of trick is this ?
Senator Keating. Is it necessary'' to confer with counsel on that?
Mr. Faulkner. We are waiting for the question.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I asked the witness if he would identify his signa-
ture on this voucher.
Mr. Shaw. Yes; sure.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I ask, Mr. Chairman, that this voucher may be ad-
mitted into the record.
I ask that the committee staff be instructed to arrange for a com-
parison of signatures on this voucher and on the letter and that an
affidavit with respect to the result of that comparison be inserted in
the record at this point.
Senator Keating. That will be done.
(The voucher and affidavit were marked "Exhibit 46-A, 46-B,
46-C and 46-D" and are printed on succeeding pages:)
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
271
Exhibit 46-A
Check No
D»te
Voucher No ,
;> -..rop. .EXPENSES OF INQUIRIES
AND INVESTIGATIONS
^fje Senate of tfje Winittti ^tateg
T0:.__
._.... 3©r.
•»• !•— 7D001-1
19
For attendance as a witness before the
under authority of
- , days at $ per day, $.
Transportation from ~
to and return - ... -
$.
$~
Correct:
Approved:
CM.
Cktlrman.
Approved:
— — Ddtlatt, in full 0/ Ott alcct duouiiL
100 -
.(Witne»)
Ck^trmtn, CommiUm tn Rattg anj Adminhtrgilon.
272 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Exhibit 46-B
November 1, I960
Dear Friend,
Detroit area oetLbers arvd supjporters of the Fair Play for Cuba
Coondttee will meet this Sunday to iiuiugurate a Detroit Chapter of
the FPCC.
TIME: SUNDAI, NOVEMBER 6, 4:00 P.M. (sharp)
PLACE: 904 W. FOREST (Forest and Fourth)
It is tentatively proposed that the meeting take up the
following points:
1. Membership
2. Activities for the immediate future
3. Selection of temporary steering committee
4. Formal application to the FPCC for Detroit Charter
You are cordially invited to attend and to bring friends or
acquaintcinces who v,lsh to participate.
Sincerely,
Edvfard Shaw
For further information call WA 4-8037
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 273
Exhibit 46-C
June 21, 1961.
Lab. Report No. 9121.
Director, Investigation Service.
Chief, Identification & Detection Division.
Signature comparison concerning Edward W. Shaw.
Type of examination : Handwriting.
1. The following report is predicated on request in memorandum dated
June 21, 1961, from Frank W. Schroeder, Investigator, Internal Security Sub-
committee of the U.S. Senate to which was attached an unexecuted voucher
bearing the heading "The Senate of the United States" and signed "Edward W.
Shaw." There also was attached a photocopy of a letter dated November 1,
1960, beginning "Dear Friend" and signed "Edward Shaw."
BEQUEST
2. To determine whether the signatures appearing on the two aforedescribed
documents were written by one and the same person.
CONCLUSION
3. The tentative conclusion has been reached that the signature "Edward
Shaw" on the "Dear Friend" letter dated November 1, 1960, was written by
the same persons who signed the name "Edward W. Shaw" on an unexecuted
voucher sheet with heading "The Senate of the United States." This conclusion
is tentative for the reason that the letter dated November 1, 1960, is a photo-
copy and as such has not reproduced the signature appearing thereon in the
desired detail necessary for a complete examination.
4. The unexecuted voucher and letter of November 1, 1960, are attached.
Harold J. E. Gesell.
Atts.
Exhibit 46-D
June 21, 1961.
Mr. Frank W. Schroeder,
Investigator, Internal Security Subcommittee, New Senate Office Building, Wash-
ington, D.G.
Dear Mr. Schroeder : Reference is made to your memorandum of June 21,
1961, transmitting an unexecuted voucher bearing signature "Edward W. Shaw"
and a photocopy of a letter dated November 1, 1960, signed "Edward Shaw"
for examination in the Identification and Detection Division of this Service.
In compliance with your request find attached report of the Chief, Identi-
fication and Detection Division pertaining to a handwriting examination.
You will note the report reflects that a tentative conclusion was reached
that the two documents in question were signed by one and the same person.
You may rely on our continued cooperation in any matter in which this
office can be of assistance.
Very truly yours,
A. K. Maiers,
Director, Investigation Service.
Att.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, I state it as a fact and ask you to deny
it if it is untrue, to correct it if the statement is in any respect in-
accurate, that new officers of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
chapter in the Detroit area were elected at a meeting on June 5, 1961,
at the Trade Union Leadership Council, 8670 Grand River Avenue,
and that the officers then elected were Ed Shaw, chairman ; David L.
Elsia, secretary ; and Sidney Brown, treasurer.
Mr. Shaw. I prefer not to answer that question.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Well, I must, along the lines previously indicated and
with a slight addition of the fact that I prefer not to testify about
64139— 61— pt. 3 6
274 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
any of the feelings of other people before a committee of this nature
but mainly because I feel I must resort to the constitutional guaran-
tees under which I may not be required to bear witness against myself.
]Mr. SoTJRwixE. ]\Ir. Shaw, have you participated in demonstra-
tions or picketmg sponsored or instigated by the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee or its Detroit chapter?
Mr. Shaw. I fail to see the pertinency of this question to whether
or not some group which you are investigating is under Communist
influence.
Senator I\jeatixg. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed by the chairman, I presume, who
is the chairman of this meeting, Senator Keating, to answer, I am
again forced to resort to the guarantees of the Constitution under
which I may not be forced, against my will, to give testunony which
may at some future tmie l^e taken to be against myself.
Mr. SoTTRWiXE. Mr. Shaw, I sliow 3-0U the photograph which has
been admitted in the record of this hearing as exhibit 39. "Will you
look at that, please ? Do you recognize yourself in this photograph ?
Mr. Shaw. Excuse me a second, while I confer with counsel.
Is it of your opinion that picketing is illegal or m some way
derogatory ?
Senator Keating. Xow you are not asking questions, Mr. Shaw.
Either answer the question or state your reason.
Mr. Shaw. Since I can't get an answer to that question, I certainly
hesitate to answer the question that was asked of me.
Senator Keating. Well, you are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed, then I have no other alternative
than to resort to our constitutional guarantees under which I may not
be forced, against my will, to bear witness against myself.
Senator Cotton. Just one minute. Wlien you say constitutional
guarantees, do you refer to the fifth amendment ?
]Mr. Shaw. I refer to the fifth section of our Bill of Rights which
was inserted or added to the Constitution by our Founding Fathers.
Senator Cotton. That is against self-incrimination.
Mr. Shaw. Xo, sir ; I have never seen tlie words "self-incrimination"
in the Constitution, Perhaps you should read it yourself again.
Senator Cotton. You, however, refer to that section,
Mr. Shaw. What section, sir ?
Senator Cotton. That you have just described. Would you de-
scribe it again ?
Mr. Shaw. I refer to the section that says no citizen may be com-
pelled to give witness against himself.
Senator Cotton. Thank you.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr, Shaw, I show you a photograph which has
been admitted in this record as exhibit 37. Will you look at it
please ?
Senator Keating. N"ow, let's shorten this thing up. If you are
shown all of these photographs with your picture, will your answer
be the same as it was to the first picture ?
Mr. Shaw. Sir, such a question, if I am shown all the photograplis
of my picture in it will I refuse, I have not noticed any photographs
where I noticed my picture.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 275
Mr. SoiiR\\aNE. Will 3^011 look at this photogTaph, exhibit 37, in this
record? Do you recognize the man with the camera hanging from
a strap around his neck as yourself ?
]\Ir. Shaw. I must answer this question as I have in relation to the
previous picture shown to me.
Mr. SouRwiNE. ]\rr. Shaw, how do you account for the fact that
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee is supported by both the Com-
munist Party, U.S.A. and the Socialist Workers Party, two organi-
zations which ordinarily oppose each other.
]Mr. Shaw. I can't quite determine if you are askmg me or telling
me under these circumstances.
Mr. SouRwixE. Do you deny, sir, that the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee is supported by both the Communist Party, U.S.A. and
the Socialist Workers Party?
Mr. Shaw^. I prefer not to get into the question of political beliefs
of people who may or may not take the position on questions which
are of great importance in our society.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. And in addition, having been directed to answer, I
must again resort to the guarantees of our Constitution under which
I may not be required to give witness against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, do you know Robert Taber, the execu-
tive secretary of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. SHAw^ Excuse me for a moment.
I must decline to answer that question because of the nature of this
interrogation.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. I certainly feel I have the right to know anybody I
please M-ithout being required
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer the question, Mr.
Shaw.
Mr. Shaw. Since I have been directed and have no other alterna-
tive, I must resort to the constitutional guarantees of the freedom
of speech in association of all U.S. citizens and also I must resort
to the guarantees of our Constitution under which no citizen may
be required, against his will, to give testimony which can be con-
strued to be against himself at some future date.
]\Ir. SoTJEWiNE. Mr. Shaw, I put it to you as a statement of fact
and ask you to deny it if it is untiTie, to correct it if it is in any
respect inaccurate, that you do know Robert Taber, that he came
to Detroit in October 1960, that he spoke at 904 West Forest Avenue,
Detroit, on October 23, 1960, that you were present at the time, and
that the main purpose of Taber's visit to Detroit was to help estab-
lish a chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, and that
while he was in Detroit he spent several days at your residence at
1057 East Grand Boulevard, and that while there he assisted you
in organizing the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in the Detroit
area.
Mr. Shaw. Is that one question, sir?
Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes, sir.
^ Mr. Shaw. I must again say that I feel it is a prerogative of any
citizen to certainly have his visitors at his home.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer the question.
276 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed by this body to answer this
question, I have no alternative but to resort to the guarantees of our
Constitution, guaranteeing freedom of assembly and association and
also since this committee apparently does not recognize the first
amendment to our Constitution and because I also feel that some
future time I may be m difficulty as a result of this hearing, I
resort to the guarantee under which I may not be required to give
testimony against myself.
Senator Keatixg. This committee recognizes all of the amendments
to the Constitution, Mr. Witness.
The committee will take a 2-minute recess.
(Short recess taken.)
Senator Keating. The subcommittee will come to order.
Counsel, proceed.
Mr. SoxjRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, I show you a photostat of the letter
dated October 18, 1960, bearing the signature of one Edward Shaw.
I ask if this is your signature.
Mr, Shaw. I decline to answer that question.
Senator Keattistg. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed, I have no alternative but to
resort to the constitutional giiarantee under which I may not be
required or compelled to give witness against myself.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. Mr. Chairman, I ask that this photostat of the
letter which has been shown to the witness be inserted in the record
at this point and that the order previously entered respecting com-
parison of signatures be broadened to include also the comparison
of this letter with the authentic signature on the voucher which the
witness has acknowledged.
(Tlie letter referred to is printed at p. 264 of this record.)
Mr. SoiTRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, I show you a photostatic copy of a
mimeograplied handbill or throwaway bearing the caption "Castro's
Cuba" and advertising a speech by Robert Taber.
Have you seen the handbill or one of the handbills of which this
is a photocopy ?
Mr. Shaw. I must decline to answer that question.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed, I have no alternative but to
resort to the constitutional guarantees mider which I may not be
compelled to give witness against myself.
Senator I^ating. Do you know where Robert Taber is now?
Mr. Shaw. Excuse me for a moment.
I must decline to answer that question.
Senator I^ating. You are directed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Pardon?
Senator Iveating. You are directed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Plaving been directed to answer, I must resort to the
guarantees of our Constitution under which I may not be compelled
against my will to give witness or testimony which may at some
future date be used against me.
Senator I^atixg. It will be necessary, because of another meeting
in the next room, for the chairman to be there for about 5 minutes.
The committee will take a 5-minute recess.
(Short recess taken.)
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COAIMITTEE
277
Senator Keating. Siibconiniittee will come to order.
Mr. SouEwiNE. Mr. Chainiian, before I ask another question I
would like to offer for the record the photocopy of the handbill,
the throwaway, "Castro's Cuba," about which the witness has just
been questioned.
Senator Iveating. It will be received subject to later verification.
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 47" and is
reproduced below :)
Exhibit No. 47
AJJ W^PiiAL FOE StUPAW^ AIO l^B.^T iX ViC i
CASTRO'S CUBA
d
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VV^'^i" r^ TH'
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ii -. ^ si'n Use t>'«ri*rf,' ^arrlila fiti-v'*. ts v«ii.nw*'««i fi,?ls-Ja -
t'- i;3:i*i-jar.t #tv.:7 into Hsrnr.fi a.'4 ' h->f ainc^ rfeturri-.-'S to Cvt" s^n--
f/.^» ^i.4y ro^ cof'A cc^^M'T ;f£ *
it wa« fo«B«d !-> '*i,,,i},leae!:-lA''.i» trjlh, t» sgabat Untruth, ifc ;
sup-
fV/~.'C i74/??i:/'^ iXv
1% «»»i fcrnwd 1*^ A.f»il fey » group flf writsrs, 6rti«t», j*umt.l-
l<t» «\d pr6f««'»l.-,-*aIs •Bon^ lii'W were- Jm5»s B*l1»iln, Sijisone {?i
5>.iAir»5>lif, Trjtr^r, C.Hr^S*, ij«hn Stlltme, Sldasjf Ler^, d«=in Paul
jrtt-iud* CsWri^mt am*, 5ra34o FrenK, 0; rioter. Bcaic, fleHtt f.
.;:,llsaa5> loF» it^% Uasximil G*ia(ftr, Uo Kabvm&/> *n - :-';^I
^-<>n»ttrr IrKJ-i^>«R4isr>t Soctail^t <nU«b, fcliticel icWrr.a Oi*p«rta,'i:t
278 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Keating. Are there further questions of this witness ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. I have additional questions of this witness, yes.
Senator Keating. I regret to say that the Senate has gone into
session and while we do have permission to sit, it is necessary for the
chairman to be on the floor and I sliall adjourn this hearing until 2:30
this afternoon. The witness now testifying and all other witnesses
are directed to return at that time.
The subcommittee will recess.
(Whereupon, at 11:25 a.m., the subcommittee recessed until 2:30
p.m., of the same day.)
afternoon session
Senator Keating. The subcommittee will come to order.
Mr. Shaw, will you resume the stand, please ?
Proceed, Counsel.
Mr. Faulkner. Mr. Senator, may I apologize to the committee
for the few minutes delay. As I explained to you, my client had
forgotten some papers at the hotel and had to run back and get them.
Senator Iveating. It is understandable. The members of the com-
mittee are necessarily late sometimes.
Mr. Faulkner. Thank you.
Senator Iveating. Proceed, Counsel.
TESTIMONY OF EDWARD SHAW— Resumed
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, I put it to you as a statement of fact
and ask you to deny it, if it is untrue, or correct it, if it is in some
respect inaccurate, that you addressed a meeting of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee in Detroit at 1057 East Grand Boulevard on
January 22, 1961, and that you there reported upon hearings held
by this committee on the subject of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee,
and that you then announced to the group that the fact of the matter
is — not yet announced in the press to date — was that the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee had been ordered to register as an agent of a foreign
country ; but that this actually did not mean too much because a travel
agency which helps promote travel business for a foreign nation can
also be called an agent of a foreign power.
Mr. Shaw. Is that the end of your question ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 279
Mr. SiiAW. In general line with the procedure that has been ap-
parently an attempt to smear me here, I must decline to answer that
question.
Senator Iveating. You are directed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Tlien I must again resort to the privileges guaranteed
to me by the Constitution, under which I may not be required to give
testhnony against my will, which may at one tmie or another seem to
be against myself or prove to be testimony against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, is the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
a travel agency which helps to promote travel business for a foreign
nation?
Mr. Shaw. I certainly do fail to see the relevancy of this question
in connection with the stated purpose of this investigation.
Senator Iveating. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed, I have no other choice but to
rely upon the guarantees of the Constitution, under w^hich I may not
be forced to give testimony against myself.
Mr. SoiTK\viNE, Mr. Shaw, I show you a photocopy of the handbill
entitled, "The Cuba I Saw," referring to a proposed speech by Edward
Shaw, regional director of the Cuba Fair Play Committee, Friday,
December 9, State Hall, under the sponsorship of the Independent
Socialist Club organized mider the auspicies of the Political Science
Department.
Would you look at that, please ?
The question is, Did you have anything to do with the preparation
or distribution of this handbill, of which this is a photocopy ?
Mr. Shaw. Could you explain the relevancy of this to the stated
purpose of the committee ?
Senator IvktVting. The relevancy of this question is covered by the
statement already made by counsel and you are directed to answer
the question.
Mr. Shaw. Well, having been directed, and with no further op-
portunity to have my question answered, I must again resort to the
guarantees of the Constitution mider which I may not be compelled to
be a witness against myself.
Mr. SouRWiNE. I offer this for the record, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Keating. It will be received and prmted at a later time.
280
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 48" and reads
as follows:)
Exhibit No 48
f-:
UQ
. [ i .J t_ ff h - j ' • ' / A
1 ^C' ip\ ?\'-,\:]^'^
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* r,-.' -.'■-.f^r-'..--* of the- *i-a!iat ian ar.d '^.t^ru-^y i:----; xi/ -.5.
* Ci 'J rJs,..ta ted 2/ lii "<ij^,
iir. 3:-i!ww-:'l '!'»o iihoK Slides of piot^ir'^s hf look v'-lln ^n ''ufc*.
FPiD/^K DEC. 9
STATE HALL
2-4 PM
i?OOM 206
Spojfisort r>rT£Ja;S»^T socialist €jK< CCrcJinlz'^d t^nd-^r ih« <ifus,iif5S of tsh«
Political :3<-r«r!'re u'tp^ri^'ir.'--)
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 281
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Shaw, did you, in fact, make a speech on
Friday, December 9, at the State Hall, as advertised in this handbill?
Mr. Shaw. Again I must say I would like to have the relevancy of
this question explained.
Senator Ive^vting. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. And having been directed and not having the oppor-
tunity to have my question answered, I again resort to my guarantees
under the U.S. Constitution, where I cannot be compelled to be a
witness against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, what is the Independent Socialist group
referred to in this handbill ?
Mv. Shaw. On this question, again I would like to have the rele-
vancy explained.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. And again, then, having been directed to answer, I
must resort to the guarantees of our Constitution, under which I shall
not or camiot be compelled against my will to be a witness against
myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you tell us, Mr. Shaw, what is the Political
Science Department referred to in this handbill?
]Mr, Shaw. Excuse me for a moment. This question is related to
the others, and therefore my question about pertinency remains in
effect.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed to answer, I have no other al-
ternative but to resort to the guarantees of our Constitution, under
which I cannot be compelled to be witness against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, who pays your salary as Midwest Reg-
ional Director of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Shaw. This question was asked yesterday, I believe, and I
declined to answer, again for the same reasons given yesterday.
Senator Iveating. You are directed to answer.
_ Mr. Shaw. Then I must resort to the guarantees of the Constitu-
tion of the United States under which I cannot be compelled against
ni}' will to be a witness against myself.
jMr. SouRwiNE. Mr, Shaw, I will tell you that a partial audit of
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee account at the Chase Manhattan
Bank, 84 Fifth Avenue, New York City, shows the following checks
drawn to you :
March 28, 1961, $194 for two weeks' salary covering the period
of March 12 to Marcli 26, inclusive ;
April 8, 1961, $15 for showing slides;
April 12, 1961, $194 for two weeks' salary.
Now, did you receive these checks ?
Mr. Shaw. I decline to answer that question.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Then I have no other alternative but to resort to the
constitutional guarantees, under which I cannot be compelled to be a
witness against myself.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. These checks, Mr. Shaw, cleared tlirough the De-
troit Bank & Trust Co. Is that your Bank ?
282 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. Shaw. This question is also related to whatever matter the
committee deems pertinent under this line of investigation, and I
decline to answer it.
Senator I^ating. You are directed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed, I must resort to the constitu-
tional guarantees under which I may not be compelled to give testi-
mony which may at some future time be used against me.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, I show you an editorial from the Wyan-
dotte Tribune, under date of February 3, 1961, headed, "Communists
Never Miss a Trick."
This editorial relates to an effort to break up the dinner of the
Michigan Press Association. Will you tell us, as Midwest repre-
sentative of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, who went to the
Press Association dinner referred to in this editorial on behalf of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Shaw. Yes; perhaps you could ask this editorial writer, or
even better
Senator Keating. The question has been asked of you, Mr. Shaw.
Will you answer it ?
Mr. Shaw. Yes; since the question includes an assertion referring
to Midwest director of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, which I
have already declined to answer, I must then decline to answer a
question that contains that assertion.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. Then I must resort to the guarantees of our Constitu-
tion, under which I may not be forced against my will to give testi-
mony against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, may this editorial be inserted in the
record at this point ?
Senator Keating. It will be received.
(The editorial referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 49" and reads
as follows:)
Exhibit No. 49
[From the Wyandotte (Mich.) Tribune, Feb. 3, 1961]
Communists Never Miss a Trick
As the United States enters a new phase of foreign relationship with the
Communists' dictators under new President Kennedy, brought forcibly to Mich-
igan editors Saturday night was the worldwide spy and agitator apparatus
of the enslavers.
Speaking at the State press association's dinner at East Lansing then was
Jules Dubois, Latin American correspondent of the Chicago Tribune Press
Service for the past 31 years.
Named "The No. 1 gangster of Yankee Journalism" by Juan Peron and his
followers in the Argentine some years back, Dubois would be shot if he ventured
into Cuba again.
Castro doesn't like Dubois * * * for among his works are "Fidel Castro
Rebel, Liberator, or Dictator," and "Freedom Is My Beat."
To prove to our downriver readers who may have any lingering doubts about
the Communist conspiracy to take over America and all the Western World.
Communists tried to break up the MPA dinner.
Dubois had given his speech, and under the guidance of new prexy Dale
Stafford, newsmen were asking special questions of the correspondent.
Unauthorized intrusion of the closed MPA meeting (for newspaper publishers,
editors, staffers, and friends) had been made by two red-tainted hecklers, who
later claimed to be members of the Detroit unit of "Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee."
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 283
Up jumped one of these with screams that Dubois was a "liar, conspirator,
tool of the capitalist enslavers, menace to all freedom-loving people," etc., etc.
This editor, seated nearby the rabble rousers, sliced into the fracas with de-
mands for identification, and the rally was broken up.
Prepared with mimeographed handouts * * * the Fair Play people were de-
termined to break up any mass newspaper meeting which was contrary to the
Communist line.
Perhaps Washington had better abandon its let's take it easy with Russia
theme * * * for Russia and its fifth columnists don't take it easy with the
United States * * * they never miss a trick.
Can it happen here as it did in Cuba ?
We think that it could * * * if our people don't harden to the fact the only
coexistence with a tiger is in his belly.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I show you, Mr. Shaw, a photostat of an editorial
from the Manistique, Mich., Pioneer Tribune of February 3.
Mr. Shaw. Have you finished your question ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. No.
I want 3'^ou to look at that editorial.
Now, will you tell us the identity of the 17-year-old boy who,
according to this editorial, was duped into serving as a mouthpiece for
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Shaw. Because of the related matter of this question, I would
presume that the writer of the editorial would know. But for my-
self, I must decline to answer that question.
Senator Iveatixg. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. Then I must resort to the constitutional guarantees
contained in the Bill of Rights, under which I may not be forced
against my will to give testimony against myself.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. May this go into the record, Mr. Chairman?
Senator Keating. That will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 50" and reads
as follows:)
Exhibit No. 50
[From the Manistique (Mich.) Pioneer Tribune, Feb. 3, 1961]
Youth Disputes Report on Castro
Delegates to the Michigan Press Association Convention at East Lansing
last weekend witnessed a typical pinko play when an uninvited guest challenged
a speaker's facts about Cuba. Jules Dubois, Latin American correspondent for
the Chicago Tribune Press Service, had just told the delegates of his experi-
ences with the Castro regime, when the intruder, a misguided youth from
Detroit, spoke up.
He said Dubois was painting a false picture of the situation, the youth
claiming that almost everyone whom Castro has failed to exterminate thus
far in Cuba loves him like a brother.
Dubois has been promised a date with a firing squad next time he sets
foot on the home of the two-bit cigar. But he has covered Cuban affairs
since 1929 — long before his wide-eyed detractor was born. Castro has em-
braced communism and converted his country to "a ruthless totalitarian police
state through the total destruction of freedom of expression and the theft of
all newspaper, television, and radio property," the reporter said.
Taking issue with this, the teenager claimed that on his recent visit —
sponsored by the Fair Play for Cuba Committee — he was allowed to travel
where he wished and talk with whomever he wanted. He said a Princeton
University poll showed that 85 percent of the Cuban people support Castro.
Dubois replied that no survey of sentiment about Castro could be accurate,
because the dictator's opponents are afraid to express themselves openly.
"Fortunately," he said "the overwhelming majority of the people south
of the border abhor dictatorship in any form * * * and if the indications of
history are being properly registered in these moments, he won't get away
with it."
284 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Dubois emphasized that the theft of the instruments of the mass media
of communication was made imperative by a desire of Castro and the Com-
munist Politboro to consolidate the brainwashing of the people.
"Total destruction of freedom of expression and the theft of all news-
paper, radio, and television properties has helped to erase the aura of mag-
netic sympathy that had been erected around him because of the dramatic
rout of Ex-Dictator Fulgencio Batista," Dubois added.
It appears that Castro and company are in pretty sorry shape when they
must resort to duping a 17-year-old boy to serve as their mouthpiece. But
shackling of the press is standard operating procedure for those who fear
truth. Because a free press can't be brainwashed, other means of disseminating
propaganda are required.
Senator Iveating. Mr. Shaw, have you paid an income tax on
money received from the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Shaw. To me, this seems to relate to an entirely different
problem from anything under investigation by this committee.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. I must then resort to the constitutional guarantees
under which I may not be required or forced to give testimony
under oath which may at some future date be used as evidence
against myself.
Senator Keating. Were any funds withheld from your salary
checks by the Fair Play for Cuba Committee for income tax with-
holding or for social security withholding?
Mr. Shaw. I fail to see the relevancy.
Senator Iveating. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. Since I have not been able to learn the relevancy of
this question and since it relates to the previous questions, I feel
compelled to decline to answer on the grounds that, under the Con-
stitution of tlie United States, I may not be compelled to give
testimony which may at one time or another be used against me.
Senator Keating. Proceed.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I show you photostats of clippings from the
INIicliigan Iron River Reporter of Februaiy 3 and the AVayne Dis-
patch of February 3, and I ask 3'ou: Did you have anything to do
with arranging for the presence of the yoimg heckler at the dinner
reported in these clippings?
Mr. Shaw. Again I request an explanation of the relevancy of tliis
question.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed, I liave no other alternative, so
far as T can see, but to resort to the guarantees of our Constitution,
under which I may not be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Sourwine. I offer this for the record, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Keating. It will be received.
(The documents referred to were marked "Exhibits 51 and 51-A"
and read as follows :)
[From the Iron River (Mich.) Reporter, Feb. 3, 1961]
Editors' BANQtrEx : Student Heckles Dubois, Says Cubans Back Castro
(By Eugene Moore)
It can happen here.
A banquet audience of 500 Michigan newspaper editors and their wives was
given first-hand evidence of Communist influence in America Saturday evening
in the Big Ten Room of Kellogg Center on the campus of Michigan State
University.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 285
The setting was the banquet of the 93d annual convention of the Michigan
Press Association, and the guest speaker tlie Chicago Tribune's ace Latin
American correspondent, Jules Dubois, was climaxing his speech upon how
Cuba has become a captive country of the Russians.
Every member of the State administrative board was seated at the main
table except Governor Swanson who had welcomed the publishers and guest
and then departed to help his wife complete their move that day from Plymouth
to Lansiug-
Suddeuly, a student from Detroit, Daniel Rosenshine, arose in a far corner
of the huge hall. The young man was tall, well dressed and groomed, and
with a touch of youthful red color in his cheeks.
"Why don't you follow the American trait of telling the truth?" he inquired.
Publishers and their ladies, filled with a fine dinner, and placidly pondering
Dubois' remarks about agrarian reform efforts currently under way in Cuba,
were instantly alert.
"You're not telling the truth," the student continued calmly. "I was in
Cuba during the holidays and saw for myself that the people are loyal to
their leader. Why don't you give Cuba a break?"
"Are you a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?" Dubois asked.
Rosenshine acknowledged that he was.
"That is a Communist front organization and the Cuban Government is
pouring literature into this country, trying to explain away its reign of terror,"
Dubois said.
Frank Worthington of the Wyandotte Tribune, a former MP A president, arose
belligerently to ask the student's name and address.
Initially rattled by the heckler, Dubois gave an incorrect answer when
Rosenshine asked him when Dubois had last been in Cuba.
"I was last there in October 1929," the Trib writer replied. Then he amended
his statement, explaining he first went to Cuba in that month, and had been a
frequent visitor there for 30 years, last visiting Havana last October.
"I now live in Miami, talking with people who come from Cuba about what
is going on," Dubois went on. "There is a firing squad waiting for me if I
were to return."
Dubois said the U.S. Navy had moved in two ships primarily equipped to
convert ocean water into fresh water in the event that the Cubans who con-
trol the water line were to cut off the flow to the big Guantanamo base.
"I think Castro is a paranoiac like Hitler was," Dubois said. "And I think
that he is in danger of assassination by relatives of leading citizens whom hia
regime has put to death by the firing squad."
Dubois said he does not think that Castro will last more than a year in his
dictatorship.
The Trib writer suggested the Michigan editors become members of the
Inter-American Press Association and keep their readers informed about Cuba.
[From the Wayne (Mich.) Dispatch, Feb. 3, 1961]
Dispatches Feom the Main Stem
What started out to be just another speech by one of the Nation's top reporters
turned into a contest of thought between two different ideologies.
Jules Dubois, who for 30 years covered the changing political scene in Cuba,
and is presently the Latin American correspondent for the Chigago Tribune
Press Service, met opposition from a 17-year-old Detroit High School student.
Dubois, who was forced to leave Cuba in 1959 under the threat of death, had
just spent half an hour or so explaining the political conditions of Cuba.
Speaking before the 20th Annual Michigan Press Association meeting in East
Lansing this past weekend, Dubois had told the 600 editors there that weekly
newspapers had a part to play in international situations. They too, he said,
should explain what is happening around the world and they should treat the
situations in the fairness that journalism ethics expound.
Dubois, who said that Fidel Castro will probably be out of Cuba within the
year, said that 1961 will be the year of the "Firing Squad" in Cuba.
Insurgents are now gathering forces to oust the Communist directed leader
of the Cuban people.
286 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
The IT-year-old high school student stood alone in the room, giving his own
speech and calling Dubois an example of the unfair journalists in the United
States.
The youth, who had courage but lacked wisdom, was part of a small group
of Americans who have taken up the cause of the Castro regime and who have
been propaganized into believing that the Castro reforms are for the good of the
people there.
Youth has a way of taking up the causes of the underdog, the suppressed or
those who want power but go under another guise.
They do not have the experience to look at the situation from all sides. They
are impatient with the slowness that it often takes to work out situations.
They have the courage, but they lack the wisdom. As they get older they often
gain the wisdom but lack the courage.
Mr. SouEwiNE. I sllo^Y you, Mr. Shaw, a photostat of an editorial
■■ from the Grand Ledge Independent of February 3, 1961. Will you
look at this, please ?
Note that it refers to the fact that a young man parroted certain
facts.
Did you have anything to do with furnishing any of these facts to
the young man in question ?
Mr. Shaw. Well certainly, I will have to wait until I find which
facts you are referring to.
Being very much aware of the nature of newspaper reporters'
articles, I would in the first place, doubt that these can be identified
as being properly quoted as the facts parroted, so-called by the young
man.
Secondly, I would like to know the relevancy of this question to
the matter under investigation.
Senator Keating. Despite your statement of inaccuracy of the
press, you are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. And in addition, now having been directed to answer,
without any further explanation, I must resort to the guarantees of
our Constitution under which I may not be required or compelled
to give testimony against myself.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Chairman, may I offer this for the record?
Senator Keating. It will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 52" and reads
as follows:)
Exhibit No. 52
[From the Grand Ledge (Mich.) Independent, Feb. 3, 1961]
We Met Communism Face to Face
As children we learned of the devil, and the pangs of hell, but it doesn't mean
too much because we've never really seen either. In our 20th century, the
devil has another name, and hell is counterparted with communism's growing
menace. But even that seems somehow remote.
Saturday we were startled to see the devil's work, by a young and sadly
foolish advocate of communism. And by the very nature of his rudeness, his
passionate plea lost ground despite his own false but obviously convinced
beliefs.
Jules Dubois, veteran South American correspondent for the Chicago Tribune's
press service, gave members of the Michigan Press Association the inside picture
of Castro's Cuba. He vigorously defined the whole Castro revolution as Soviet-
inspired, citing facts which he knew from firsthand as well as from sources
prominent in Cuba. Dubois, expelled from Cuba for objective reporting, was
warned by Castro that if he ever set foot on Cuban soil again, he would face
a firing squad.
Author of two authoritative books on South America, Dubois holds the Freedom
Award, as well as the title "The Number One Gangster of Yankee Journalism,"
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMJVIITTEE 287
conferred on him by the state controlled press during Dictator Peron's tenure
in Argentine.
But a 17-year-old Detroit boy leaped to his feet in the question period follow-
ing Dubois' talk, and averred that he knew more about Cuba, because he had
spent 12 days there with the notoriously Communist-supported Fair Play for
Cuba committee. In itself the rudeness was unpardonable, but Dubois asked
the audience to listen, because he said this was the type of propaganda with
which thinking Americans should be familiar and on guard against believing.
In 12 days this obviously Soviet-indoctrinated high school boy figured he
knew more than someone whose business it was to know people and facts, who
had sources at his fingertips, and a powerful newspaper behind him, plus the
experience of a decade or more.
He glibly parroted "facts" that 85 percent of the lower classes wanted Castro,
that there were no Soviet connections, and that the hundreds of political exiles
regrouping forces in Miami didn't know what they were talking about.
Laughable V No. For brainwashing youngsters is the same gangster tech-
nique by which Hitler, Mussolini and who knows how many Kremlin dictators
stole their countries.
Dubois convinced us, for every one of some nearly 700 persons present
Saturday night, were in accord with the fact that we must open our eyes.
The one world doctrine is no longer a good philosophy * * * not when we must
deal with such people. We hate to think of it, but communism is a very real
and vital devil, who must be faced with vigor and truth.
]\fr. SouRwiXE. I show^ you, Mr. Shaw, a photo copy of a mimeo-
graphed handbill entitled "An Open Letter to the 1961 Annual Con-
vention of the Michigan Press Association."
Did you have anything to do with the preparation or distribution
of any of the handbills of which this is a copy ?
Mr. Shaw. I really would like to know the relevancy of this.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. Feeling very frustrated in my knowledge of what the
aim of this committee is at this point.
Senator Keating. The relevancy of all this testimony has been
carefully explained by counsel in this hearing in yesterday's execu-
tive session. You listened to it all and you will now answer the
question or refuse to do so.
]\Ir. Shaw. Then I must again resort to the guarantees of our
Constitution under w^hich I may not be and cannot be compelled
against my will to give, or to be a witness against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I offer this for the record.
Senator Keating, It is received.
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 53," and reads
as follows:)
Exhibit No. 53
"In my 30 years on the New York Times, I have never seen a big story so
misunderstood, so badly handled and so misinterpreted as the Cuban revolu-
tion."— Herbert Matthews of the New York Times, speaking April 1960, to the
American Society of Newspaper Editors.
"I think we should keep every channel of communication with the Cubans
open (and on occasion we might even try to listen to their side, before we
stop talking altogether and leave them with only the Communists to talk to."
Laura Bergquist, the Senior Editor of LOOK Magazine, Nov. 8, 19C0.
An Open Letter
To the 1961 annual convention of the Michigan Press Association
Delegates and Members of the Press :
One side of the complex issue of the Cuban revolution has been presented
to you today by the well-known Latin American correspondent of the Chicago
Tribune, Jules Dubois.
288 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE,
There's another side to this important story which, in the best traditions
of American journalism, merits your consideration as citizens and representa-
tives of the press.
We are deeply concerned with the lack of objectivity with which the events
in Cuba over the past two years have been reported in our press. The tremen-
dous social advances made by the Cuban government in the areas of education,
health and improvement of the standard of living of Cuba's miserably poor
lower classes have been largely ignored by all but a few.
Distinguished correspondents like Herbert Matthews and Laura Bergquist,
whose statements appear above, Robert Taber and Richard Gibson of CBS,
and Carleton Beals of The Nation, who have reported the truth about Cuba,
have not received the wide audience to which they are entitled. Yet dispatches
unfriendly to Cuba have been freely printed.
Unless the U.S. realizes that the Cuban revolution is representative of a
vast social and political movement which is sweeping all of Latin America,
based on a hope of freedom from poverty and economic distress — and unless
our foreign policy becomes cognizant of this fact — the image of the United
States will continue the decline which the USIA has just reported. The fact
that 85 i^erceiit of the Cuban people (according to a recent Princeton U. poll)
support Castro and the fact that he has much support among the Latin
American masses must not be ignored.
We do not ask that you defend the ideological viewpoints of the Cuban
government. But we do urgently request that in your coverage of events in
Cuba that you be objective and that you remember there is another viewpoint
which should be heard. More important, we urge you to check the facts your-
self about Cuba before arriving at a hasty opinion. Please feel free to call on
us for assistance in research, preparation of feature articles for your news-
paper, printed material or other related services.
Fair Play Fob Cuba Committee,
Michigan Chapter, 1057 E. Grand Boulevard,
Detroit 7, Mich. WA ^-8037.
What is the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
For 10 years, noted correspondent Robert Taber covered Latin America for
the CBS television network. The Caribbean was his beat, and in 1957 he
became the first American to arrange a television interview with Fidel Castro.
In April, 1960, disturbed by distorted press coverage of Cuba, Taber, with a
group of distinguished writers and educators, formed the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee. The Committee now numbers several thousand Americans as
members, has chapters in scores of communities across the country and pub-
lishes Fair Play (Nat'l. office : 799 Broadway, New York 3) .
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMIMITTEE 289
Mr. SouRwiNE. Isn't it a fact, Mr. Shaw, that you did participate
in preparation of this handbill or the text for this handbill and that
you also participated in arrangements to have it distributed by a
young man named Rosenshine?
Mr. Shaw. That is two questions in one.
Senator Keating. If you want to answer one and not the other,
just take it up in your own way.
Mr. Shaw. I decline to answer.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. Either one.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. Then I again must resort to the guarantees of our
Constitution under which I may not be compelled to be a witness
against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, did you have anything to do with
organizing a Fair Play For Cuba Committee at the University of
Michigan ?
Mr. Shaw. I decline to answer.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. Having been directed, I have no other alternative but
to rely upon the guarantees of our Constitution, one of which says
that I may not be compelled or cannot be compelled to be a witness
against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, I show you a photo copy of a two-
page mimeographed document entitled "Michigan Fair Play
Newsletter."
Now didn't you participate in the preparation of this newsletter?
Mr. Shaw. I certainly fail to still see the relevancy of this line of
questioning.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. Having no other alternative, I must then rely upon the
guarantees of our Constitution under which, or one of which at least,
I may not or cannot be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. May this be received ?
Senator Keating. It is received.
290
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 54," and is
reproduced below :)
Exhibit No. 54
tVoluae
>iu»lJ«f I -
msr
ay for G«sa Caitff'.tv's , Jst-rot-: , Mlcai^i" - t^rrh. 595]
»-**♦♦»•*•»»*»*»»»*«*«-•*»««««»*♦♦«-«■♦** *«»»»»•
Bs«i* Frisadi,
fata l»au« «f th» Hl«bigaB fair
Fair ?i«* tar '-Cnfea Ccswitt** is
otb&r tfaroaa of tJB« »t&ta,
It ref Je«t« sot oaiy aa iaersese
by the CoDwittee, ^sJt a aarkssS is-
■er«aR« *a a««t>tr8tii^ 'ss well . f«
rc« heve two ft.Actioiiing eSxa^tars
ta %h« «tato, a tutni i«t la »fea
of tli H-tcbtgitB r«e*(i'S7;t8 icteres-
x< i i,-i working for tii<^ lBipvrS«»t
■c -a t ot str«ngtSt*atag tfae relA-
I ttoiitfi tHsivte* yur coastrf aad Cfuta
caa t3 h«Jp? Call chapter jt*aAi-
tox ftjr s«<'ii of activities &ftei»s
aji soon.
Fair Play tor Cutea S<5BaRi ttes ,
( )
i >
Kaa«
?l«a«o «ettd farther- latftrinsttos oa
ttoe pair Piay ior Cwtea C?>aisiltv*«-.
I voiiid like t« ioln the rPOC,
A4drg»» .,.., ,. .„„.„„,. ,,,.... .„..■ ..:. ■
105T 2. Orace Blvd. 3»t?stt ^,
IQO A-it,',''=d Kse^in^ &4*pi*tj
for Chjl*' *ft\/e«»»a by Eer»y 5>1i4-
• !;< -j.fjjiir'oejst; «i«>&ay tit? aftcrc-
-•y, ^.z.A Robe-., ■». VtU4a3:»>eaioo
C;»mi> , US., lUACn? ^TMldlsat.'
'>yt *oT ^ha *e-«^tta)ij «?'*a Uioujii
w-i« i«\; was cAac»il*(S %y fd'^t"
f;itr9 ;:,v<3» iire-Bst'At* grcttj?* at
C.-rtf «*■£?. Acc aap5-x*?. f;Lur-5fa. lO
ua. .*- tot to-iic- ef $100 waa th-
relV/.-^ a., ttii KS-'itias.
Til* rf«C'- KitrsfTni. Jfir»ctor
w> -.?;.{-i4j i*L{: nr;>ii.* -> tteov.e«iBis
vttis « t*Xfe £)«f*|f« J, 000 d»JPe:.-
aEC! cA«eiiiM'Si>- ^-» J ^»»d 05n»'.-''->"
ecisd ic>^ 'kit-IXC ^-A Rt . tfe<j P'ji-t
fe'sya* Bet*!, &aa * rviis«»«r oif ia-
la C«^*. visieutij- h&vft «pjp*a.r«'j
th'9 Vlillajua Coar >«!.*■ «5l<;->!n»&t.-
vt-slan afp*»r&if«si tuvj^ cosratad,
th*t tb<» fivf ««*f »r«>«l ♦»!%« *
to fc« to«ld rR<--,y tAil9ii itt ot''
FAIR PLAT FOR CUBA COIVIMITTEE
291
^^H^gblftao g&ir,, flay., w«w»lett»r
HmxfiU, 1881
GOVV&Stmre BWtBASSHSSr bacifibss.
catavim emrimss to rioar back
to w#ak«B til* Fair Play for Cuba
C<HMiitt«« Appaar to bo iwciJlr-
ii>g». ««ci»rdiB( to the national of-
fie* la «»» Vork City,
to« of t*6 last act« ot tJia Bi-
»«cJi«v«r !kd«lolat ratios "was to be-
gus « vagu* "invssttgetlon" ^y
the Seaat« lBt«rnai S»<!«rity Cost-
«itt»e, *e«i©i»<i to liak tba Fair
Piay Co««itt«8 -with »ci>«attai8«.»
Cl»rjps» tbct txa saoaat of woaey
io»3 Cu&aa sottft- «s.wer© «>»<»«) V
oa« »rltB««*. No further , actioa
on tbl» fi-oBfc haa >Jtea takac 5>y
t&s li«aae<{y adaial 3 {ration.
fKC aattoEal officers rfej^rt
that If tiis lartstigatioB *a» de-
aijpa4 to XrljifeteB C^sasltVfte »««-.
b«3r», it faii«dt «l««ra?Jly, Only
thre* r«8igaatioB» l»atr«. 1>«»a r«-
celTodj iWy ruport^ aa<l the axos*
l)«r of at*ab«rt a ad i^AIR PIA? »ut)-
acrlfcar* tfditln«n» to «row. »tai
t'>l>piBf 6,000. <Ja* Oi aie tatpst
p&r«OB to join Is K-jfeal Pri?.» vti>-
aia£ «oie?iT,iat Ltcop PRailag.
* k e a ^
«ai>Her.
In » i a 4
.-■;c«
♦ a 9»trolt cfeapvesr efcarter «««-
ti»8 to «e.^«i^« a cljstrtaT rro«
Vfce oetiOBWl organ t«ati*n awt t«
<»l«et local off Sears.
Vttiete ftysts- m&ilh&i: for iBforaatis^a
i
»ow Avaiia^Ja f ro« Xh'f) iooal cfeaptar
ritfal Casti'j'a "History *ill Ateolve
*»*" Ic a aeif Sagilsfe tracsiatlon juat
^-ctoilabett. Priea TS n«nti
Aiao available ; a asleotioaof otitar
,rec«ot tit»«s, intliitltng "hiMten, Yao-
Jreat*, "iuM: Aaatoay of a Kevoiatlon"
aijtj ftUttfcri!.
/j4-ii/5 <5/^ /9e't(i/i ties
(continu«<t fr^Mi p. 1)
tain tUe addresa of the .n<?w hall
aa^ thu» failed to picket it.
The FPCC Spaaker* Bureau a-
ports tl:e followiag;
—A tAUC, with slides of tioba,
before five history cia»»«» at
s. large sahwrban high acbool hy
SB fKiC aember vtio Ka» la Caha
airing Chrietaaa vaeatioa.
— AKOTSES ?AIK l>y '."0. FJPCC ae«-
'j«i- to aersior {wpll* at a diff-
erent ktglj school ia ouburba:.
--A>' iN'^^iiAI'IOJ, W tb.' ?««a
iiiiti Coaatry ~1u1j of 9ir«lB«ha«
for aa FFCC »eafeer to rev lav
HIT la' "Listso, Taokee'-«at one
6f taetr ia««t.lBg».
—A l-ALK AKD &lSCUSS10iJ before
400 Baivsrait}- ol »tci»lig«a s4a>
5eA£a vitn Sofcort F. Vllllesra.
the ^JBiversiiya CaetGlttee tor
Improved Cubaa-T^.S, aeiotloat
ai>o»»r5r?4 i^iae jjatiterinii ,
— ^.-1 JR&®aft of lafcr«ai house
5ath*?iflgs to view alidea.
PwbiicHy eoatja-iaa to ooea'*
in regArttitiij ths aj>»«ranc8rf ac
FK'C »eMi!i-2r befor« tuo eoa^t^a-
tie a e? ras Klfijigao J»re8» A«-
as^Jfttios^-it whicfc i^tla-A«<T-
icfijj awirreftj^oR^eat Julfts 3wboi8
-«<'.« cit:illv7i^.«';, 'ik'ho SW? state
^liitijr?' who tttt-'^tnifta tSfi a«f«-
-:; r-^i i-w.-.ttcee tc "vrxxr. eeoct tt
ta t>i*ir fc-eeicly pap*rs,'Slse ?KC
prfeBart(<l a sjpecial brocfeure tc
distribute at the convsattoa.
•4i.roaa the rive? to 'a l»v5»or ,
a Fftir ?lay C<M»ltt*e is tietng
iorae4. Sevojcai JJefcrolt «wa-
bara viair:s4 tJia grcup*» organ -
izatleaal a^eV^ajg Mar<:h 13. la
foroato^ earii<'i- this woath, ac
•>r^B i --.a t i ^nc- i tae 1; i a^ ae^ferd
oar Prcfeas*;!" 3a«««l SfaapirG or
MStJ-0«kI-Aa4s deliver an iRs^oitatit
ae3at>g« tc tb8^evl!.srii..f ,
Ti^baa eater ti<iajsost vJli be
fealwr^cS at »b UfC'.'iSiO| |«rtg:.
fxicblgaa Fair ?lay J^avaietier iol
|e4*te<J ajad pitiiiiahe^ by the j>-ab- 1
{lie r«latiott» cftEUSittse of the
fPetroit Chapter. PI«C. Marsh, >a6ll
292 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SoURWiNE. Mr. Shaw, I show you a photostat of a clipping
from the Michigan Daily of November 17, 1960, which has a picture
associated with it, the picture, according to its caption, showing a
number of Democratic Socialists who have recently been to Cuba.
You will note that among the persons identified in this Cuba tour
are Louis Jones, James Regal, Jack Everett, Gretchen Klme, and
WillGurley.
Do you know any of those individuals ?
Mr. Shaw. I still fail to see the relevancy of this.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. And I must again say that I resent being asked to
testify regarding other people, especially.
Senator Keating. This committee is not interested, Mr. Shaw, in
what you resent.
The committee resents your behavior before this committee, both
yesterday and today. We are seeking to receive equanimity.
You will now answer the question.
Mr. Shaw. Then, upon the basis of mutual feeling, we will proceed
and I must resort to the guarantees of our Constitution under which
I may not be, or cannot be, compelled to give testimony which may
at some time be entered as evidence against me.
Mr. SouRwiNE. May this be received ?
Senator Bleating. Now just 1 minute.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes, sir.
Senator Keating. I feel it incumbent upon me to make it perfectly
clear for the record that the use of these words "Democratic Socialist"
has nothing whatever to do with the Democratic Party.
I think the Chair will reserve decision on receipt of this exliibit
pending further questions.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, as of January 20, 1961, the oflScers of
the Committee for Improved Cuban-American Relations, at the Uni-
versity of Michigan, were President Louie Jones, 401 Hoover Street,
Ann Arbor; Cochainnan James Wigle, 24 South Division Street,
Ann Arbor, home address 2726 South Division; faculty adviser, Ar-
nold Kaufman.
Do you know any of these individuals ?
Mr. Shaw. I must decline to answer.
Senator I^ating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. I have, therefore, no other resort but to rely upon the
guarantee of our Constitution under which I may not and cannot be
a witness against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, are you aware that James Wigle, co-
chairman of the University of Michigan for improved Cuban-Ameri-
can relations is the same person as James Bruce Wigle who, on
April 15, 1961, participated in picketing in the sit in of Ann Arbor,
Mich., and who was, on that date, arrested by the Ann Arbor police
for passing out literature without a permit ?
Mr. Shaw. I fail to see the comiection between anyone who is in
favor of democracy in the United States and the so-called nature
of the investigation of this committee.
Senator ICeating. I want counsel to explain the relevancy of that
question.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA CORCVIITTEE 293
Mr. SouRwiNE, Yes. The question is relevant because the informa-
tion is to the effect that this witness has been in contact with Mr.
Wide; that this Avitness assisted in the orofanization of the Improved
Cuban- American Kehitions Connnittee at the University of Aricliifjan
which is the successor of the Fair PLay for Cuba Connnittee at the
University of Michigan.
Senator Keating. What has that grot to do with this Wigle picket-
inn: on some sit-in campaign or something of that nature^
Mr. SouRwiNE. It raises the question as to whetlier the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee was participating in picketing of this nature,
Mr. Chairman.
I will be glad to withdraw the question.
Senator Keating. I think counsel should withdraw that question.
Mr. SouRWiNE. The question is withdrawn, Mr. Cliairman.
Mr. Faulkner. I join with you, Senator Keating, in that request.
I think it wholly improper for Mr. Sourwine to inject into these
proceedings the question of the freedom riders and the sit ins.
Senator Keating. We are not interested in your comments, Mr,
Faulkner, on the propriety of the counsel to this committee. The
Chair will take care of that.
Mr. Sourwine. I show you, Mr. Shaw, a photostat of an article
from the Daily Collegian of Wavne State Univei-sity of Novem-
ber 30, 1960.
Did you have anything to do with the preparation or transmission
of this letter ?
]SIr. Shaw. I must decline to answer that question.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. I must then resort to the constitutional guarantees of
the U.S. Constitution, one of which I cannot be compelled to be
a witness against myself.
Mr, Sourwine, Do you know the four individuals whose names
appear at the bottom of this letter ?
Mr. SIIAW^ I decline to answer that question.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw\ Then I must again rely upon the guarantees of our
Constitution, under one of which I cannot be compelled to be a wit-
ness against myself.
Senator Keating. All right.
Mr. Sourwine. I offer this for the record, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Keating. Subject to objection later, it will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 55"' and
reads as follows:)
Exhibit No. 55
[From the Wayne Collegian, Wayne State University, Nov. 30, 1960]
Cool Yule in Cuba
To the Editor :
Any students interested in spending Christmas in Cuba may sign up now
for the Student Council Fair Play for Cuba Committee's low-cost, all-expense
tour to Havana, leaving Miami December 23.
Ten days of sunshine and a wealth of experience will be available in the
heady atmosphere of the new, revolutionary Cuba at a nominal cost. What
will this buy? A respite from commercialism. A new way of looking at life
in the unique social laboratory that is Cuba today.
294 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Student contingents leave Miami December 23, return January 2. Flat
rates cover transportation via Cuban airlines to and from Miami or New
York and all expenses while in Cuba, including accommodations (rooms, a fabu-
lous cuisine, swimming pool, and all facilities) at the luxurious Havana
Riviera Hotel and a variety of excursions to key points of interest from
beautiful Pinar del Rio at one end of the SOO-mile-long island, to the fabled
Sierra Maestra Mountains of Oriente Province at the other.
The Christmas-in-Cuba tour is part of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee's
program to acquaint students with the truth about revolutionary Cuba. The
committee was established last April by a group of distinguished writers,
artists, journalists, and professionals. Prominent members include such intel-
lectual leaders as C. Wright Mills, Simone de Beauvoir. Truman Capote, John
Killens, I. F. Stone, Leo Hubermau, Paul Sweeney (sic), Kenneth Tyan (sic) and
Jean Paul Satre («ic).
Purpose : To tell the truth about Cuba.
In Cuba students will receive guided tours and have a chance to meet
and talk with Cuban officials. They will have an opportunity to observe and
appraise the various reforms and changes in Cuba. They will have an
inexpensive and exciting opportunity to see at first hand what we have all
been reading about and discussing.
Nick Zampaglione.
Arnold Kesslee.
Hariet Talan.
Baeet Kalish.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Shaw, I show you a clipping from the
Wanderer, the Catholic newspaper of St. Paul, Minn., March 23,
1961, issue.
Senator Keating. In order that this record may be clear, I have
asked you to withdraw the offer of the exhibit from the JNIichigan
Daily.
Mr. SouRwiNE. On the Chair's instructions, the offer of this ex-
hibit which showed the pictures of a number of persons is withdrawn.
Senator Keating. If it becomes pertinent at a later time the Chair
will receive it.
Mr. SouRwiNE. This clipping which you now hold in your hands
is captioned "A Reader Reports "What She Heard at Local Fair
Play for Cuba Committee Meeting."
lou will note that this report contains the notation "Speaker
No. 1, Edward Shaw, Detroit, Mich.," and so forth, and that the topic
is given as "Fair Play for Cuba."
I will ask that you read this clipping and tell the committee if
this is a fair and accurate report of the meeting.
Mr. Shaw. I decline to answer that question.
Senator Keating, You are directed to answer it.
Mr, Shaw, Then I must again rely upon the guarantees inserted
in the Bill of Rights added to our Constitution,"^one of which puts
forward that an American citizen cannot be compelled to be a witness
against himself.
Mr. SouR^\^NE. May this be received, Mr. Chairman?
Senator Keating. This will be received.
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 56" and
reads as follows :)
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 295
Exhibit No. 56
A Reader Repokts What Sue Heard at Local Fair Play for Cuba Meeting
Editor, The Wanderer :
Here is my report on Fair Play to Cuba. Please excuse any mistakes I have
made, spelling, and so forth, as I am trying to dash this out between my office
work which has piled up. Also, please do not publish my name, as I do not
wish the risk of reprisals. Thanks.
* * *
Time : 8 p.m.
Date : February 25, 19G1.
Place: YMCA, Minnesota University, 1425 University Avenue S.E., Minneap-
olis. Minn.
Speaker No. 1 : Edward Shaw of Detroit, Mich.
Speaker No. 2 : NAACP official Robert F. Williams of Monroe, N.C.
Topic : Fair Play for Cuba.
Nature of audience : About 200 persons present, mostly the progressive Socia-
list group from the university, with a few adults thrown in.
Meeting was called shortly after S p.m. by Edward Shaw.
Shaw told us that the Fair Play for Cuba was organized in April 1960 ; at
that time they ran a seven-column metropolitan newspaper ad, signed by some
30 writers and artists, who thought the Cuban revolution was not getting fair
coverage, so they organized this group. Fair Play for Cuba, to help the Cuban
people.
Shaw told us there have been 43 groups of Fair Play for Cuba organized
since then, 40 in large cities throughout the United States and 3 in Canada.
It was planned that a group of students and interested people in Fair Pla.v
for Cuba be organized last fall and go to Cuba to find out for themselves just
what was the truth about this situation; so 340 students signed up for the trip
over the Christmas holidays from the United States to go to Cuba. It was
a well-organized, all-expenses paid, tour and practically all of the 340 allegedly
came away convinced that Fidel Castro was doing a good job on the side of
freedom and democracy.
Shaw mentioned Cuba's crops of sugar and sisal, but did not mention tobacco
or pineapple crops, and the cattle business there which did export some of the
finest beef ever raised.
Shaw told us that Cuba has always imported 70 percent of her food, but now%
with the U.S. embargo, they are starving, little children's stomachs are so pro-
truded that it is awful to see them. ( In the first place, I wonder if Shaw was
giving us the amount of sugar imported back into their country after it has been
refined in the States to make up 70 percent because, as far as Cuba's crops of
poultry, vegetables, and fruit, there is no limit on that and no reason for any-
one to starve in Cuba. I know ; I lived there off and on for many years. In
fact, Cuba raised the finest fruit any place ; her grapefruit are the best grown
anywhere ; likewise oranges, limes, bananas grow like weeds, 64 varieties of
them ; then there is the coconut, papaya, guava, fruit of Cuba and many others
too numerous to mention.)
(What Shaw and Williams called squatters are, no doubt, the people who
live in the thatched huts which are made from palms, including the thatched
roofs of palm leaf, and are rainproof and windproof, not really so bad as these
two made them out to be. )
Shaw told us that Castro has instituted a building program of lots of new
schools and new homes under the housing plan. Slums were cleared away and
then he paid the squatters $3 per day to work on building these homes and,
when finished, he had them move in rent-free — because he said as squatters they
paid no rent, so why should they pay rent now.
All over Cuba, Shaw told us, the Cubans had demonstrated that they do not
dislike the American people ; they only hate our Government and its men.
People of Cuba used to work about 3 to 4 months a year in the sugar fields
and then were out of work the balance of the time, said Shaw, but after Castro
took over he gave all the uncultivated land to the Cubans for free.
296
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEH
Everything in Cuba today is free — such as no charge for driver's license, auto
license, and many other things. Not 1 student of the 340 that went over ever
heard a word of anti-Communist statements of any kind. (Would anyone
dareV)
The pity is, according to Shaw, that President Eisenhower did not even ask
Castro if he needed any help in Cuba, or if the Cuban people needed help ; but
"Ike" had time to run over to Portugal and see them, while Cuba is only
90 miles away, our next-door neighbor. "Ike" could also run to such other
countries as Japan, where he could not land or did not dare to land, and to
South Korea to see his friend Syngman Rhee, and he had to meet Rhee in
the Philippines because Rhee was chased out of Korea.
"Why," Shaw asked, "should 'Ike' be in favor of all the 'dictators'? We do
not and will not support any of these 'dictators' that 'Ike' has backed up all
along."
Shaw told about Mennen Williams' trip to Africa — and said Williams would
not dare to speak in Montgomery, Ala., as he is doing in Africa. Shaw took
issue with Senator Eastland's statement that the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee helps to "glorify the Castro government" and acts as a publicity agent.
"Perhaps we do," said Shaw.
Shaw referred to Haiti and the eight Catholic priests that were thrown out
of Haiti for their "Communist teachings." He said the eight priests were
deported because they were "pro-Communists."
Shaw told us that the New York Times news reporter (Herbert Mathews)
wrote a very fine series of articles on Cuba. "You should all read these."
Shaw referred to Nicaragua, Peru, and Paraguay, who all broke relations
with Cuba at the same time the United States did. These, he said, are the
dictator countries — because they stood with the United States.
Brazil, Argentina, and Venezuela did not sever relations with Cuba ; there-
fore, they are friends of Cuba.
Shaw said it seems as if all the United States does is to associate with
dictators. The United States has stopped its citizens from going to Cuba so
the people from the States can really see for themeselves there is nothing bad
in Cuba and that the people are happy now and well fed for the first time.
(He sort of forgets what he said in the first part of his speech about hunger.)
A student from a college in Northfield — didn't catch his name or college, but
he was with the group that went to Cuba over the holidays — said, since his
return home, he has organized a group of Fair Play for Cuba in Northfield and
now has 40 members.
At this point the second sijeaker was introduced — a Negro, Robert Williams
from Monroe, N.C., publisher of the Crusader. Williams started off by telling
a story about a little colored boy in New Orleans who wrote a paper for
his class studies and said he would sf)me day like to be President of these
United States, and his teacher though so well of it, she put it on the board,
and some white person or persons came in and seeing it, ordered it removed
and asked: "How dare you?" Williams went on then to make the following
statements :
"This is the dawn of a new day.
"They call me black, a Nazi, troublemaker. Communist, a revolutionary, a
beatnik, and an agitator. Yes, I am an agitator and I see red and get so
mad at what is going on. I see their eyes being pulled out, their skulls being
smashed in. their teeth being knocked out. It is the world revolution and they
tremble — it truly is a new day."
Williams said he was the one who introduced the sitdown strike in North
Carolina and he was arrested for that and for the kissing act, and bragged
about it, and when he reached Cuba, he was asked why the newspapers here
branded him as a criminal and why was he out on a .$750 bond? Williams
said he had been branded a criminal "because I sat on a stool where whites
were supposed to sit and for the kissing affair."
Cuba is not a political question, he said. "I only look at the humanitarian
side of it."
"We know Lumumba was hated. We also know why Castro is hated — and
•why Christ was hated. The new day is surely coming and a day of violence and
upheaval is coming. So .vou better watch out.
"I offer no apologies to these United States or to anyone else. I have been
called an agitator and I am proud to wear the label and to join hands with
the revolutionary movement which is going on in the world today."
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 297
The other speaker, Mr. Williams, said he is the editor of the Crusader. He
referred to the picket line outside the YMCA hall and said that was a good
sign, that we have free speech in Minnesota, which is good.
He mentioned the "Uncle Toms" of his race and said he has no time for
them.
The Cuban revolution, he said, si)eaks the idiom of those who live in the
South; it has no politics or economics; it is simply humanitarian. ( V?V)
AVilliams said he was born black and he found the Cuban Government the
most humanitarian government to the black race there is. Williams was in
Cuba under the above-mentioned $750 bond because he was convicted twice
in open court. Cuba, he said, has been called a dictatorship by the United
States, though he himself found "more humanitarianism there than any place
here."
Africa and Cuba pose the big questions, he said, Castro said there will be
no white or black Cubans but just Cubans in Cuba. "'They say the Cuban
Government is communistic and full of tyranny. But I know Cuba is full of
humanity, and I wish we had this form of government here, in our South.
The Government of Cuba has more Christianity in it than all the churches
here put together in the United States."
We should talk about Cuba, he said. Why? "My people here are depressed
and hungry because we dare to attempt to vote in the South. Cuba is a
symbol for the depressed people everyhere." Referring to the Africans in the
Congo, he said he was in the United Nations on that "black Monday" when
Adlai Stevenson said we must use moderation.
Williams said this was the most repulsive remark he ever heard when
Adlai said : "We must use moderation." The attitude in the southern courts
is indifferent to the plight of the Negro, he said. He referred to the American
newsman who told him in Cuba to complain at home and not come to Cuba
to complain.
We must prove ourselves superior, he said, and not become puppets of big
men. Christ, he said, was killed because He would not become a puppet, and
he referred to "self-righteous liberals of the North who get all the money."
He was proud of all the demonstrations ; "we have been too submissive for
300 years" and that "black Monday at the United Nations was one of the
mo.«;t violent demonstrations, and I was there."
Williams said this group at the United Nations was made up of a Harlem
cross section. He said he was referred to as agent of the Castro government,
that he had the agitator label and is proud to wear it. "I am an agitator and at
war with all forms of injustice. The new motto in the South is : 'We would
rather live 30 seconds in human dignity than live 1,000 years crawling on our
knees under suppression.' "
Williams said the Fair Play for Cuba Committee has many groups over the
United States and he is making a tour of these places to give the people this
message. He said : "I notice the church people here do not have mi.ssionaries
in the South to teach the white savages. I have never had any time for these
'Uncle Toms' of my race. I am proud to be for the new day, and I am an
agitator in this new revolutionary movement."
W.C.L.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Finally, Mr. Shaw. I show you a mailing piece
transmitted thronuli the mail by the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
This is entitled, "Fair Play Supplement, June 5, 1961."
I call to your attention particularly the last paragraph in the
right-hand column, which states :
Late bulletin : Edward Shaw, Midwest representative for FPCC, has just been
subpenaed before the Eastland committee on June 14.
The question is, sir, did you visit the New York lieadquarters of
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and advise them that you had
been subpenaed to appear before this committee?
Mr. SiiAW. I presume counsel feels there is some relevancy to this
question to the stated purpose of the committee.
I decline to answer.
298 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Shaw. Then I must again rely upon the guarantees of our
Constitution, under one of which I cannot be compelled to give testi-
mony under oath which may at some future time be used against me.
Mr. SouRWiNE. I have no more questions of this witness, Mr. Chair-
man.
Senator Keating. That is all, Mr. Shaw.
Mr. Shaw. May I be allowed to read my statement?
Senator Keating. How long is it ? Is it the same one you read in the
executive session ?
Mr. Shaw. Similar to this hearing, sir. It has some of the same
parts and additions.
Senator Keating, How long is it ?
Mr. Shaw. About five lines longer than the one I read yesterday.
Senator Keating. Go ahead,
Mr. Shaw. Having been4nterrogated at great length by this sub-
committee yesterday in private session, it comes as a surprise to be
called before a public session today. Such a move can only be con-
strued as an attempt to use the subcommittee for very questionable
publicity purposes which have no relation to the legitimate purpose
of the subcommittee, which is to determine the need for new legisla-
tion or amendment of current legislation.
As an American whose lineage can be traced to ancestors who took
part in the birth of the United States of America, as an independent
and sovereign nation, I am proud to have been called before this
subcommittee.
It is no accident that the Senator from Mississippi who signed
the subpena ordering me to testif;y' today, a Senator who seems not to
recognize a first amendment or the 14th amendment to our Constitu-
tion, who comes from a State which does not allow nearly half its
adult citizens to vote, who, with his colleagues on this subcommittee
is attempting to smear and stifle those who would uphold the integrity,
dignity, and honor of the United States, should consider me a danger
to his concept of the American way of life.
Attacked by this subcommittee, it implies recognition by the
enemies of freedom at home and abroad that my efforts on behalf of
freedom and truth have been of some avail. I feel honored,
I will not be intimidated into cooperating with you in your efforts
to suppress the free expressions of public indignation over the illegal
and immoral invasion of Cuba by the U.S. Government and its Central
Intelligence Agency.
Here, indeed, is a more pertinent matter for investigation by this
group, combined, perhaps, with the overthrow of the illegally elected
government of Guatemala in 1954, in which the CIA participated.
To facilitate further warlike moves against Cuba, this inquisitorial
body is trying to subvert freedom of expression and other traditional
liberties; to intimidate individuals and organizations who dare to
speak and write the truth and to cover the entire Nation with that
atmosphere of prejudice, hatred, fear, and oppression which persist
in the home State of Mr, Eastland and to which he owes his present
position as U,S, Senator,
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 299
Finally, why not investigate the private business dealings with
foreign governments such as Guatemala in violation of the Logan
Act?
I suggest that perhaps Senator Docld could give interesting testi-
mony in this regard.
Senator Keating. Not for your benefit, because you are well aware
of the reasons, and you are well informed as to techniques, but for
the purpose of clearino- the record, as you well know, the purpose of
an executive session prior to an open session is to protect not only the
witness called, but also to protect any person wliose name might be
brought into an open session. It is designed for that purpose and
laid down in the rules of this committee for this purpose. It is no
l^articular honor to the members of the committee to sit through an
executive session and hear the same testimony and see the same con-
duct exhibited toward the committee as has been exhibited in the
open session.
The Senate and Congress have much other important work to do,
but in order that every individual called before this committee in
an open session may feel, and the general public may feel, that he
or she has been fully protected, it is the practice and a rule of the
committee that every one will be examined first in executive session.
Your statement before the committee, which follows the lines we
have heard from a great many other witnesses, leads me to this
question :
Are you a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Shaw. Is that question directed to me at this point ?
Senator Keatixg. Yes.
Mr. Shaw. Because of the line of investigation undertaken by this
committee and its obvious attempts to do something other than truly
investigate the need for new legislation, I must decline to answer that
question.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Then I must also then decline to answer on the grounds
that the U.S. Constitution, in one of its provisions, states that an
American citizen cannot be forced to give testimony against himself.
Senator Keating. Are you under Communist direction or control?
^Ir. Shaav. I hesitate. I don't really understand what you mean
by that. Senator.
Senator Keating. All right. Change it to a word with which
you may be more familiar.
Are you under Communist discipline or control ?
Mr. Shaw. Well, for one reason, I have heard so many various
explanations of what the word "Communist" means to so many
different people
Senator Keating. A^Hiat does it mean to you ?
Mr. Shaw. I have first of all — is this an additional question?
Senator Keating. That is your question : What does the word "com-
munism'' mean to you ?
Mr. Shaw. I am not required to answer the first question?
Senator Keating. We wUl come back to that. Answer this one.
Mr. Shaw. It is hard, again, for me to understand the relevancy
of these questions.
300 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Keating. The question is very relevant, and you are di-
rected to answer it.
Mr. Shaw. Then I must again rely upon the guarantees of our Con-
stitution, under wliich I may not be required to give evidence or
testimony under oath w^hich may at some point be entered as evidence
against myself.
Senator Keating. Are you under Communist discipline or control?
Mr. Shaw. I must also decline to answer that question.
Senator Keating. You are directed to answ^er it.
Mr. Shaw. Then I must again resort to the constitutional guaran-
tees, under which I may not be and cannot be forced to give testi-
mony against myself.
Senator Keating. You are excused.
Call the next witness.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Joseph Bernstein.
Senator Keating. Mr. Bernstein, raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give in this j)roceeding will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Bernstein. I do ; yes.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH BERNSTEIN
Mr. SouRwiNE. You are Joseph Bernstein ?
Mr. Bernstein. That is right.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Your address is 18644 Mendota Street, Detroit^
Mr. Bernstein. That is right.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Your telephone number is Diamond 1-2894 ?
Mr. Bernstein. That is correct.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You were born in Buffalo, N. Y., in 1910 ?
Mr. Bernsitsin. Correct.
Mr. Sourwine. What is your present business or profession ?
Mr. Bernsiiein. Advertising.
Mr. Sourwine. Your present employment ?
Mr. Bernstein. You mean the name of the company ?
Mr. Sourwine. Yes.
Mr. Bernstein. U.S. Industrial Tool Co.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you the same Joseph Bernstein who was
formerly employed on the Detroit News as a newspaper artist ?
Mr. Bernstein. That is correct.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Bernstein, on what occasions have you visited
Cuba?
Mr. Bernstein. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer this question.
I refuse to answer under the privileges guaranteed to me under the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. Did you not go to Cuba on December 23, 1960,
under the sponsorship of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Bernstein. Again, I refuse to answer this question under the
same privilege.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee?
Mr. Bernstein. I refuse again to answer, mider the same privilege.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COIVIMITTEE 301
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you a member of tlie Detroit chapter of tlie
Fair IMay for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Bernstein. I refuse to answer this question on the same
privilefje.
J\rr. Soi^RwiNE. Have vou attended meetin<rs of the Fair Phiy for
Cuba Committee?
Mr. Bernstein. I refuse to answer the question under the same
privilec'es.
Mr. "Sourwine. Do you know Fdward Shaw, regional director
of the Fair Play for Cuba Conmiittee ?
Mr. Bernstein. I refuse to answer under the same privileges.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Bernstein, have you participated in demonstra-
tions or picketing sponsored or instigated by the Fair Play for
( hiba Committee or its Detroit chapter ?
Mr. Bernstein. Refuse to answer under the same privileges.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you the same Joseph Bernstein who appeared
before the House Un-American Activities Committee on February 2(5,
195-2?
Mr. Bernstein. I refuse to answer under the same privileges.
Mi: Sourwine. I show you, Mr. Bernstein, a photograph Avhich
lias been admitted to this record as exhibit 45, and ask you if you
recognize tliat as a photograph of yourself taking the oath on tlie
occasion of your appearance before the House Un-American Ac-
tivities Committee on Februaiy 26, 1952 ?
Mr. Bernstein. I refuse to answer the question under the same
privilege.
Senator Keating. You think it might incriminate you to identify
your own picture 1
Mr. Bernstein. I just refuse to answer. That is all. I have
the same privileges.
Senator Keating. I think the fact that you are accompanied by
counsel has not yet been entered in the record.
Counsel, give your name and address.
INIr. Goodman. Ernest Goodman, 3220 Cadillac Tower, Detroit,
Mich.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Bernstein, were you ever a member of the
American League for Peace and Democracy ?
Mr. Bernstein. I refuse to answer the question, sir, under the
same privilege as previously stated.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. Are you the same Joseph Bernstein who was a
member of the International Workers Order?
Mr. Bernstein. I refuse to answer the question, sir, under the
same privileges.
JNIr. Sourwine. Did you know the International Workers Order
had been cited as subversive by the Attorney General of the United
States?
Mr. Bernstein. Refuse to answer under the same privilege.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Bernstein, have you attended closed meet-
ings of the Communist Party U.S.A. ?
Mr. Bernstein. Refuse to answer under the same privileges.
Mr. Sourwine. Specifically, did you attend a certain closed meet-
ing of the Communist Party U.S.A., on March 8, 1950, to celebrate
International Women's Day ?
302 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. Bernstein. Refuse to answer under the same privileges.
Mr. SouRWiNE, Are you the Joseph Bernstein who attended the
Michigan State Convention of the Communist Party held in the
Detroit Workers Cooperative Restaurant January li;] and 2-i, 1948?
Mr. Bernstein. Refuse to answer under the same privileges.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you the Joseph Bernstein who was a member of
the professional cell of the Communist Party in the Detroit area
known as the Cultural Theater?
Mr. Bernstein. Refuse to answer under the same privileges.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you the Joseph Bernstein who was a member
of the professional cell of the Communist Party in the Detroit area
known as Detroit Special :2 ?
j\Ir. Bernstein. Refuse to answer under the same privileges.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you the Joseph Bernstein who was a member of
the professional cell of the Communist Party in the Detroit area
known as John's Group ?
Mr. Bernstein. Refuse to answer under the same privileges.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you the Joseph Bernstein who was a member
of the professional cell of the Communist Party in the Detroit area
known as Pen and Pencil ?
Mr. Bernstein. Refuse to answer under the same privileges.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you the Joseph Benistein who was a member
of the professional cell of the Communist Party in the Detroit area
known as Sholem Aleichem I
Mr. Bernstein. Refuse to answer under the same privilege.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you the Joseph Bernstein who was at one
time membership director of the State of Michigan Communist Party
U.S.A.?
Mr. Bernstein. Refuse to answer under the same privileges.
Mr. Sourwine. I have no more questions of this witness, Mr.
Chairman.
Senator Keating. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Sourwine. Nathan Rosenshine.
Senator Keating. Mr. Rosenshine, will you raise your riglit hand ?
You solemnly swear the evidence you give in this proceeding will
be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help
you God?
Mr. Rosenshine. I do.
Senator Keating. You are accompanied hy the same counsel,
Mr. Goodman ; is that right ?
Mr. Rosenshine. Yes.
TESTIMONY OF NATHAN ROSENSHINE
Mr. Sourwine. Your address, Mr. Rosenshine, is 19605 Argyle
Crescent, Detroit?
Mr. Rosenshine. That is correct.
Mr. Sourwine. What is your telephone number ?
Mr. Rosenshine. Townsend 8-8794.
Mr. Sourwine. What is your business or profession ?
Mr. Rosenshine. I am in the real estate investment business and
property management.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 303
Mr. SouRWiNE. Your business address is the same as your home ad-
dress ?
Mr. KosENSHiNE. Yes.
Mr. 80URWINE. Are you a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee ?
Mr. RosENSHiNE. I decline to answer that question on account of
the lif th amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you a member of the Detroit Chapter of the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. RosENSHiNE. I respectfully decline to answer this question for
the same reason.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba Commit-
tee have you attended?
Mr. RosENSHiNE. I decline this question.
Senator Keating. On the same grounds ?
Mr. EosENSHiNE. On the same grounds.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you participated in any demonstrations or
picketing sponsored or instigated by the Fair Play for Cuba Commit-
tee or its Detroit chapter ?
Mr. RosENSHiNE. I decline to answer this question on the same
grounds as previously stated.
Mr. SouR^viNE. Did you not make a trip to Cuba in December 1960,
under the sponsorship of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. RosENSHiNE. I decline to answer this question on the same
grounds.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Edward Shaw, regional director of
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. RosENSHiNE. I decline to answer this question on the same
grounds.
Mr. SouRWixE. Have you ever made a contribution to the Commun-
ist Party U.S.A. or one of its subdivisions?
Mr. RosENSHiNE. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. SotJRWiNE. Have you ever paid dues to the Communist Party
U.S.A. or any of its subdivisions ?
Mr. RosENSHiNE. I decline to answer this question on the same
srrounds as stated.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you presently a member of the Communist
Party U.S.A.?
Mr. RosENSHiNE. I decline to answer this question on the same
grounds.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you a son named Daniel ?
Mr. RosENSHiNE. Yes ; I do.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I show you, sir, a clipping, being a photocopy of a
clipping of an editorial from the South Haven (Mich.) Tribune of
February 10, 1961, bearing the caption "Mr. Rosenshine Falls Flat."
Mr. Rosenshine. Well, I can't assume any responsibility for any
of my son's actions; however, since Daniel's name has been brought
up here I would like to submit a copy of his resigTiation from the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee that was sent in on March 25.
I would like to submit this for the records of the committee.
Senator Iveating. This was sent in this year ?
Mr. Rosenshine. Beg your pardon.
to
304 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Keating. That is March 25, 1961 ?
Mr. RosENSHiNE. 1961.
Senator Keating. At that time your son resigned from the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. RosENsiiiNE. Beg your pardon.
Senator Keating. At that time your son resigned from the
committee ?
Mr. RosENSHiNE. This is a copy of tlie resignation.
Mr. SouKwiNE. My question simply was whether it was your son
referred to in this editorial. I take it you say it was.
Senator Keating. One moment, please.
Mr. Rosenshine. Well, I couldn't tell you because I wasn't at the
meeting and I was not aware of this activity here.
You would have to call him in and ask him to identify it. I have
never seen this before.
Senator Keating. You were not at that meeting yourself?
Mr. Rosenshine. I beg your pardon.
Senator Keating. You say you were not at that meeting yourself?
Now wide latitude is given by this committee to witnesses consult-
ing with their counsel. However, the committee frowns on any efforts
by counsel to, in any way, change or modify the testimony of the wit-
ness and I would hope that the witness would only consult his counsel
for a proi>er purpose.
Mr. Goodman. I resent that statement, ]\Ir. Keating, because I don't
know whether you have heard what my conversation was with the
witness. I should hope that there was no manner in which my con-
versation with him would be available to the chairman.
Senator Keating. Mr. Goodman, yesterday in the executive session
these various witnesses with the exception of ]\Ir. Miller who gave
forthright testimony, in almost every other instance, you were con-
stantly pulling at the sleeve of your clients and were not conducting
yourself in a manner which is befitting members of the bar, in the
opinion of the chairman.
Mr. Goodman. I resent that statement and I don't think it is appro-
])riate for the chairman of this committee to characterize my position
toward my client in that manner.
I also want the record to show that ]\Ir. Rosenshine, as I advised the
committee yesterday, is hard of hearing and I have been finding it
difficult to discuss matters with him which I would not find difficult
witli respect to other witnesses.
I think the chairman is aware of that, too.
Senator Keating. Have you completed your conference with him?
I think the question, Mr. Rosenshine, was : Did you say you were
not present at the meeting which is referred to in this clipping, which
your son, apparently, attended ? Was that right ?
Mr. Rosenshine. That is correct.
Senator Keating. Have you attended other meetings of the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Rosenshine. I refuse to ansAver this question on account of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know whether your son attended the meet-
ing of the Michigan Press Association ?
'" FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 305
]Mr. RosENSiiiNE. Well, again, I must — I am afraid you will have
to ask my son that question, direct that question to my son because I
believe you people as parents know that we can't control all of the
moves of our children. AVe don't know what meetings they go to.
Senator Keatixg. That is perfectly true, and your answer is you do
not know.
Now. counsel, I think you should read in all fairness, the letter
Avhich Air. Rosenshine has given us which he says is a copy of a letter
Avritten by his son on March 25 this year, to the New York office and
Mr. Shaw as the head of the midwestern office of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee.
jSIr. SouRwiNE. Yes. ,
JNIay this clipping be inserted in the record ?
Senator Keating. Yes.
(The clipping referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 57" and reads
as follows:)
Exhibit No. 57
[From the South Haven (Mich.) Tribune, Feb. 10. 1961]
As Others See It : Mr. Rosenshine Falls Fl.\t
(From the Feb. 1 edition of the Hillsdale News)
Jules Dubois of the Chicago Tribune is perhaps the best posted newspaperman
in the United States on conditions in Cuba. An intimate of Fidel Castro in
the prerevolution days and in the early months of his government, Dubois
eventually wound up ou the firing squad list for reporting the Communist in-
filtration of Castro's government.
Saturday night Dubois was the principal speaker at the windup dinner at
the Michigan Press Association's annual meeting at Kellogg Center, East Lan-
sing.
He said . . . and documented . . . what everybody knows : That Castro has
become a Communist tool ; that the weapons of freedom . . . the communications
media . . . have been confiscated by the Cuban Government, that all areas of
the Cuban economy . . . business, industry and agriculture . . . have fallen
under the hammer and sickle of the state. He added that thousands of iieasants
have rallied around anti-Communist freedom fighters and predicted that Castro
"won't get away with it."
At the clo.se of his formal remarks the chairman announced that Mr. Dubois
would be glad to answer questions.
There arose in a far corner of the diningroom a young man later identified
as Daniel Rosenshine, Detx'oit high school student. He had no (luestions to ask.
He had a speech to make ... a line to follow.
Mr. Dubois had not told the truth, he said. Castro is a great man, a savior.
The Cuban people are 100 percent behind him. The talk of C(«nmunist infiltra-
tion was bosh. The United States is to blame for all of Cuba's troubles.
It was a startling interruption, except to Mr. Dubois. Rosenshine was known
to him as a member of the Fair Play for Cuba group, largely made up of students
and college professors, who spent 12 days in Cuba and returned to the United
States well fortified with ammunition and techniques for rabble-rousing in
Castro's behalf. Other members of the Fair Play for Cuba group had attempted
to harrass Mr. Dubois on other occasions.
What is the best way to handle a situation like this?
Bang the gavel . . . shut the intnider up abruptly and quickly?
No, this is the land of free speech, remember?
Throw him out in the hall? Punch him in the nose?
You don't do those things, although sorely tempted, because Mr. Rosenshine
hopes you will. He'd like you to make him a martyr. This would win him and
his phoney cause bigger headlines.
The way to handle such an individual is the way it was handled Saturday
night.
Rosenshine was allowed to make three or four statements, then the meeting
was adjourned.
306 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COIVIMITTEE
A group of 20 or 30 newspapermen, including Dubois, gathered around him
in the hall. The informal debate continued for many minutes. There was no
trouble, not even any loud talk. Rosenshine's statements were challenged,
refuted, and the refutations documented. There was some needling, which was
natural.
Finally the discussion broke up, and Rosenshine walked alone to the check-
room. He was shaking his head as he left. He had converted no one, con-
vinced no one. He had picked the wi*ong meeting. There was no possibility of
martyrdom here. The trip from Detroit had been wasted. He lost a battle
because the newsmen were aware of his purpose and knowledgeable enough
about Cuban affairs to make a shambles of his ridiculous assertions and argu-
ments.
This is the way it should be done.
In Cuba, the land he loves, Mr. Rosenshine wouldn't have lived 'til morning.
Mr. SouRWiXE. This is a signed copy of your son's resignation?
Mr. Rosenshine. That is his ovt^n signature.
Mr. SouR^viNE, March 25, 1961, sent to Fair Play Office, New York,
Ed. Shaw, 1057 East Grand Boulevard, Detroit,
That indicates that a copy went to New York and a copy went to
Mr. Shaw,
Mr. EosENSHixE. This is a natural copy of the letter that was sent
him.
Mr. SouKWiNE. It says :
Dear Sie: Please be advised of my resignation from the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee. You may cancel my subscription to any forthcoming Fair Play
publications. I have made this decision after much deliberation on the present
situation in Cuba and on the nature of the Fair Play committee.
I am one who strongly believes in the economic, political, and intellectual
freedom of the individual. If the individual does not have a certain amount of
economic independence and stature, the freedoms of thought and political deci-
sion are usually unattainable. Although the Cuban revolution has taken im-
portant steps in providing economic welfare for the people, there have been de-
velopments on the political and intellectual fronts which are inconsistent with
my concept of individual freedom. The Fair Play Committee has seen fit to
give its unreserved support to the measures taken by the present regime in
Cuba. The stand of many of these Fair Play members with whom I have come
in contact has been one of unthinking ideological support rather than evaluat-
ing each new development in Cuba on its merits, judged by enlightened stand-
ards, and Fair Play has sought to rationalize the tremendous mistakes of the
Castro government.
The United States has been continuously criticized in a highly nonobjective
manner. I believe that there are many Americans who favor Fidel Castro's
original promises of political democracy — now forgotten — and economic reform
and who are now dismayed at the undemocratic developments in Cuba.
As Americans we .should judge the happenings in Cuba, not from a position of
uncompromising favoritism, but from one that is openminded and reasonable.
We should be willing to admit an attempt to correct our own mistakes but this
does not mean that we should favor all of the extreme policies which the Castro
regime has adopted.
I find that my conscience will not allow me to give my wholehearted support
to an order which includes firing squads, lack of democratic processes and the
revocation of civil liberties which are basic to individual dignity, nor do I find
myself in agreement with the position taken by your organization, with the basic
philosophy of many of your members.
Rather than give you my halfhearted support, I would prefer to give you none
at all.
Daniel J. Rosenshine.
Senator Keattxg. Mr. Rosenshine, I wish you would convey to your
son my commendation on his realistic and very excellently worded let-
ter and I hope he will continue to exhibit in the future the principles
which he has enunciated in this letter.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 307
How old is your son ?
Mr. RosENSiiiNE. Seventeen and one-half years old.
Senator Keating. It is a very well-worded letter for a 17-year-old
son.
I could only wish that this letter might have Avide distribution. It
enunciates, better than some of the rest of us could, the sum of the
facts which we liave elicited from other witnesses and which we have
hud introduced into this record in connection with our investigation
of the Fair Play for Cuba (^ommittee.
There has been a bell now for a vote on the floor. The Chair will
recess the hearing until 4 o'clock.
(WJiereupon, at 3 :25 the committee recessed to resume at 4 o'clock
the same afternoon.)
Senator Keating. The subcommittee will come to order.
INIr. Rosenshine, just before the recess took place, we inserted in the
lecord and read uito the record your son's very fine letter.
I would again make the appeal to you to follow the fine example set
by your son.
Would you care to alter in any way any of the testimony which you
have given today ?
Mr. Rosenshine. I don't know just exactly what you have reference
to.
Senator Keating. I would appreciate it, and the committee would
appreciate it, if you saw ht to tell us what you know, if anything
about the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
(Tlie witness consults with counsel.)
Mr. Rosenshine. I prefer to follow the same procedure that I did
before.
Senator Keating. May I ask you this : Do you agree with the senti-
ments expressed by your son in this letter?
Mr. Rosenshine. By and large, I would say "Yes, I agree with the
ideas expressed in the letter."
Senator Kefauver. Have you severed any connection which you
might have with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Rosenshine. Sir, I can tell you my connections with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee were very little.
Senator Keating. Whatever little they were, have you severed
them?
Mr. Rosenshine. Yes.
Senator Keating. You have.
And you do not attend any more meetings ?
Mr. Rosenshine. No, I don't.
Senator Keating. And you, in general, agree with the sentiments
expressed in this letter of your son, is that right?
Mr. Rosenshine. I do.
Senator Keating. We all make mistakes. The Chairman of this
committee has made lots of them, Mr. Rosenshine. And the best way
to rectify them is to make those facts known, and this committee always
is verv' considerate toward any who have seen the error of their ways.
Mr. Rosenshine. If you will alh)w me to read a few lines of a pre-
pared statement
Senator Keating. Is it a short statement ?
Mr. Goodman. Two short paragraphs
308 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Keating. You may read it.
Mr. EosENSHiNE. I consider myself a loyal American citizen. I
have the utmost respect for the republican democracy under which
we live, and I cherish the various privileges guaranteed to us in the
Constitution of the United States. My loyalty to my country would
never permit me to taken any action detrimental to the interests of
the United States and the interests of its people.
I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Communist
Party. Dictatorial government is abhorrent to me, no matter where
it is practiced, and I deem governmental interference in the political
beliefs of the individual to be contrary to the spirit of our American
tradition. Thei'efore, it is my firm conviction that, if our democratic
form of government is to survive, we must tolerate freely the views
of minorities, even though they might be unpopular and unacceptable
to most of us.
Those are my sentiments.
Senator Keating. There is nothing in conflict with the sentiments
of this connnittee to say that everyone should have a right to express
freely their views, no matter what those views may be, so long as
they do not injure the security of our country.
Your statement is received, and we are very glad to have it, sir.
Thank you, Mr. Rosenshine.
Mr. Sourwine. Reva Bernstein.
Senator Keating. Would you raise your right hand, Mrs. Bern-
stein.
Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you will give in this
proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Mrs. Bernstein. I do.
Mr. Sourwine. You also have Mr. Goodman as your counsel?
Mrs. Bernstein. Yes, sir.
TESTIMONY OF REVA BERNSTEIN
Mr. Sourwine. Your name is Mrs. Reva Bernstein?
Mrs. Bernstein. That is correct.
Mr. Sourwine, Your address is 186 Mendota, Detroit?
Mrs. Bernstein. Sir, I would ask that this be stricken from the
record, for the reason that I think there is a very great possibility
that when this sort of thing comes out in the press, that we may
very well be harassed, and I just think it is unfair.
Senator Keating. The residence of the witness is a proper part
of the record, Mrs. Bernstein, and I am sure that if you are in any
way harassed and appeal to the police for protection, you will have it.
But we must identify our witnesses.
Mrs. Bernstein. That is the address.
Mr. Sourwine. You are the wife of Joseph Bernstein, who testi-
fied here today?
Mrs. Bernstein. That is correct.
Mr. Sourwine. Mrs. Bernstein, did you visit Cuba in December
lOGO, under the sponsorship of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mrs. Bernstein. I decline to re|)ly to this because I rely on the
rights and privileges granted to me and to eveiy American citizen
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 309
under the fifth amendment to the Bill of Rights of the Constitution,
which states that no person may be compelled to be a witness against
liimself.
Senator Keating. Mrs. Bernstein, your objection is sustained on
that ground.
But I call your attention and that of Mr. Shaw and others who
have used that expression that our country recognizes the right
of an}' person, whether he be an American citizen or not, to invoke
that protection, a right which I might remind you is not given in
many countries.
Mr. SouKWixE. Are you, Mrs. Bernstein, a member of the Fair
Play for Cuba Connnittee ?
Mrs. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds just stated.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you a member of the Detroit chapter of the
Fair Play for Cuba Connnittee?
Mrs. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you attended meetings of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee?
Mrs. Bernstein. I decline to answer on the same ground.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you participated in demonstrations, in pick-
eting, sponsored or instigated by the Fair Play for Cuba Commit-
tee or its Detroit chapter?
Mrs. Bernstein. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know Edward Shaw, regional director of
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mrs. Bernstein. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you receive literature through the mail from
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee headquarters in New York ?
Mrs. Bernstein. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. SouRw^NE. Have you paid dues to the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee in New York ?
Mrs. Bernstein. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
INIr. Sourwine. Have you ever made a contribution to the Commu-
nist Party, U.S.A. ?
Mrs. Bernstein. I decline to answer on the same rounds.
Mr. Sourwine. Have you ever paid dues to the Communist Party,
U.S.A.?
]\Irs. Bernstein. I decline to answer on the same grounds ; that was
the same question you just asked of me.
Mr. Sourwine. The first question was contributions ; the second was
dues.
Mrs. Bernstein. Excuse me, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you the Reva Bernstein who was a member
of the Ben Davis Club of the Communist Party, U.S.A., in 1946 ?
Mrs. Bernstein. I decline to answer this question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Sourwine. I have no more questions of this witness, Mr, Chair-
man.
Senator Keating. You are excused, Mrs. Bernstein.
Mr. Sourwine. Arnold Sabaroff.
310 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator I^ating. Mr. Sabaroff, will you raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you will give in this pro-
ceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?
Mr. Sabaroff. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ARNOLD SABAEOFF
Mr. SouRWiNE. You are Arnold Sabaroff ?
Mr. Sabaroff. Yes.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You live at 19945 Whitcomb, Detroit 35?
Mr. Sabaroff. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. What is your business address ?
Mr. Sabaroff. 14211 Wyoming.
Mr. SouRwiNE. And what is your business or profession ?
Mr. Sabaroff. I am a sales manager for my firm.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you married ?
Mr. Sabaroff. Yes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you and your wife
Senator Keating. What is the firm ?
Mr. Sabaroff. Max Sabaroff & Co., Inc.
Senator Kj:ating. Is that a family concern ?
Mr. Sabaroff. Yes ; it is.
Mr. SouRWixE. Did you and your wife go on a trip to Cuba in De-
cember 1960, under the auspices of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Sabaroff. Under the rights granted to me by the fifth amend-
ment of the Constitution, I refuse to answer that question.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee ?
Mr. Sabaroff. I refuse to answer for the same reason.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you a member of the Detroit chapter of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Sabaroff. I refuse to answer that for the same reason.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you attended meetings of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee?
Mr. Sabaroff. I refuse to answer that for the same reason.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. Have you participated in demonstrations or pick-
eting sponsored or instigated by the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
or its Detroit chapter ?
Mr. Sabaroff. I refuse to answer that for the same reason.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. Do you know Edward Shaw, regional director of
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Sabaroff. I refuse to answer that for the same reason.
Mr. SouRWiNE. I have no more questions of this witness, ]\Ir. Chair-
man.
Senator Keating. May it appear on the record that Mr. Sabaroff
is also represented by Mr. Goodman.
Mr. Goodman. I think it was stated.
Senator Keating. Thank you, Mr. Sabaroff.
Mr. Goodman. By the way, Mr. Chairman, some of these witnesses
have rather lengthy statements that they wanted me to file. They
would be rather long to read. Can I file them ?
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 311
Senator Iveating. You may file them and the committee will de-
termine, when they are able to vote on them, whether they will be put
in the record.
Mr. SouRwiNE. David Wellman.
Senator Keating. Mr. Wellman, will you raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear 1 hat the evidence you give in this proceeding
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Mr. Wellmax. I do.
Mr. SouKwiNE. Do you also have as counsel Mr. Goodman?
Mr. Wellman. That is correct.
TESTIMONY OF DAVID WELLMAN
Mr. SouEwiNE. You are David Wellman of 15354 Monica, Detroit,
Mich. ?
Mr. Wellman. That is correct.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What is your business address, sir?
Mr. Wellman. I have no business address. I am a student at
Wayne State University in Detroit, Mich.
Mr. Sourwine. When and v/here were you born, Mr. Wellman ?
Mr. Wellman. I was born in New York City, N.Y., on June 2,
1940.
JNIr. Sourwine. Did you hoar the testimony this morning wuth re-
spect to you?
Mr. Wellman. Excuse me, please.
(The witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Wellman. That is correct.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you, as Mr. Kowalski testified, the son of Sol
and Mignon Welhnan?
Mr. Wellman. I would like to object to that question, Senator, on
the ground that who my parents are, I believe, has no relevancy to
this committee hearing, being that I have no choice as to who my
parents are.
Now, I would also like to make it clear that I am very proud and
respect my parents dearly. However, I do not feel that I, as their
son, with all due respect to my parents, whom I do respect and love,
that I have no choice as to their activities, be them what they may,
just as your son, if you have one, should not be held responsible for
those deeds which you commit as to whether he agrees with tliem or
disagrees with them.
Senator Iveating. There is no question about the basic fact which
you have set forth. A son cannot have visited upon him any sins or
any of the virtues of a father, or vice versa. Your name, however, is
not an unusual one, and for the purposes of identification only.
Mr. Wellman. Excuse me, Senator. If this was for identification,
I would have no objection whatsoever. However, the implication
which accompanied the witness over there was that my parents were
Communists, and I feel chat has certain implications with regard to
my character, David Wellman, an individual.
If it was purely for identification reasons, I have no objection to it.
However, this, I believe, is the first time such a question has been
asked of a witness at this hearing, to my knowledge, today, and I
312 FAIR PLAT FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
can't see how this, all of a sudden, is a means of identifying me, when
it was not previously.
Senator Keating. Are you, yourself, a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. "Wellman. Excuse me, please.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Wellman. Senator, I would respectfully like to decline to
answer this question due to the amendment to the Constitution which
states that a citizen or any person is not compelled to be a witness
against himself.
However, I believe that your question has no relevancy to my ob-
jection.
Senator Keating. Are you under Communist discipline and
control?
Mr. Wellmax. I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the grounds previously stated. Senator, has my objection been ac-
knowledged by you ?
Senator Keating. You may ask your question, counsel.
Mr. SouKWiNE. The question is :
Are you the son of Sol and Mignon "Wellman, as testified to this
morning bv ^Ir, Kowalski ?
Mr. Wellman. I once agam would like to object to this question
on the grounds that I have previously stated.
Senator I^ating. You are directed to answer.
Mr. Wellman. Then I respectfully decline to answer that ques-
tion on the grounds previously stated.
Senator Iveating. On what ground I
Mr. Wellman. On the ground that I, as an American citizen, am
not compelled to bear witness against myself.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Wellman, are you a member of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Wellman. I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you a member of the Detroit chapter of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Wellman. I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you the David Wellman who has attended
meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in Detroit?
Mr. Wellman. I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the grounds previously stated.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you the David Wellman who participated in
demonstrations or picketing sponsored or instigated by the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee, Detroit chapter ?
Mr. Wellman, Once again I must respectfully decline to answer
this question on the grounds that were previously stated.
Mr. SoTjRWiNE. Mr. Wellman, I show you two photos, being the
photos which are in the record of the hearing today as exhibits 43
and 44.
Will you look at these photographs, please?
Mr. Wellman. Yes.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you recognize them as photographs in which
you, yourself, appear?
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 313
Mr. Wellman. I respectfully decline to answer this question on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you, ISIr. Wellman, make a trip to Cuba in De-
cember 1900, under the sponsorship of the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee ?
Mr. Wellman. I respectfully decline to answer that question on
the grounds that were previously stated.
Mr. SouRwixE. Mr. AVellman, have you ever made a contribution
to the Conmmnist Party, U.S.A. ?
Mr. Wellman. Once more I must respectfully decline to answer
this question on the grounds that have been previously stated.
Mr. SouinviNE. 1 have no more questions of this witness, Mr. Chair-
man.
Senator Keating. You are excused.
jSIr. Wellman. Thank you.
Senator Keating. Martin Miller.
Mr. Goodman. May he be excused from the hearing room?
Senator Keating. Is he seeking, also, to file a statement with the
committee?
Mr. Goodman. He has one.
Senator Kjeating. May I see it first ?
Mr. Miller, you may sit there.
I just want to ask one more question of Mr. Wellman.
You have submitted a statement to this committee for inclusion
in the record. Do you swear that the contents of that statement are
true?
Mr. Welliman. Excuse me, please.
( Witness confers with counsel. )
Mr. Goodman. Will you pardon me while I go over this ?
Senator Keating. Yes.
Mr. Wellman. Senator, I would not like to submit this as a sworn
statement, in the light of the position I have taken at this hearing.
Senator Keating In other words, you are unwilling to swear that
the facts stated in this statement are true?
Mr. Welliman. I am unwilling to submit this in the light of the
stand I have taken with regard to the fifth amendment.
Senator Keating. Very well. The statement is withdrawn.
Before you are recalled, Mr. Miller, I want to recall Mrs. Bernstein.
TESTIMONY OF REVA BERNSTEIN— Kesumed
Senator Keating. Mi^s. Bernstein, you have submitted a statement
to be filed with this committee. Who prepared this statement?
Mrs. Bernstein. I prepared the statement.
Senator Keating. And are the contents of that statement true?
Mrs. Bernstein. Senator, because of the previous position I ha\e
taken on the fifth amendment, I cannot submit this as a sworn state-
ment.
Senator Keating. Do you wish to withdraw the statement?
Mrs. Bernstein. Well, it is up to you. I would like to leave it on
file with the committee.
314 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Kjeating. Are you able to swear to the statement made on
page 2 that "neither my husband or I are members of, or active in,
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee" ?
Mrs. Bernstein. I still take the position in answering that ques-
tion as I did before, based on the fifth amendment, Senator.
Senator Kjeating. If you are not able to swear to the contents of
the statement that you seek to submit to us, we cannot receive it.
Mr. Goodman. May Mr. Wellman leave ?
Senator Keating. Yes.
I want to recall Mr. Sabaroff.
TESTIMONY OF ARNOLD SABAROFF— Resumed
Senator Keating. IVfr. Sabaroil, I show you a statement dated June
16, 1961, which you have submitted to this committee. Is that your
signature?
Mr. Sabaroff. Yes, that is my signature.
Senator Keating. And do you swear to the contents of that docu-
ment?
Mr. Sabaroff. Sir, I respectfully submit that I refuse to swear to
this statement on the same ground that I previously refused to an-
swer the questions regarding the matter in that statement.
Senator Kjeating. This committee cannot accept statements from
witnesses that they are not prepared to back up.
Mr. Sabaroff may be excused.
We will proceed with Mr. Miller.
Mr. GooDiviAN. May I have the statements back ?
Senator Keating. No, they have been submitted here.
Mr. Goodman. Are you accepting them or rejecting them ?
Senator Kjeating. Not accepting them, but impounding them, Mr.
Goodman.
Mr. Miller, will you raise your right hand, please ?
Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you give in this proceed-
ing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God ?
Mr. Miller. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MARTIN MILLER
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you Martin Miller ?
Mr, Miller. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRWTNE. Do you have a middle name or initial ?
Mr. Miller. "A."
Mr. Sourwine. You live at 12860 Ten JSIile Road, South Lyons,
Mich.?
Mr. Miller. That is correct.
Mr. Souravine. Wliat is your business of profession ?
]VIr. Miller. I have a small pattern jobbing shop right at home.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee, Mr. Miller?
Mr. Miller. I am.
FAIR TLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 315
Mr. SouKwiNE. Ai-e you a member of the Detroit chapter of the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Miller. Yes.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you hold any office in this committee?
Mr. M11J.ER. No.
Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you come to join the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee?
Mr. Miller. Because I thought they were espousing a cause which
needed some support for fair play.
Mr. Sourwine. You received literature of the committee through
the mail, and on that basis came into contact with the committee, is
that correct?
Mr. JNIiller. That is correct.
Mr. Sourwine. What meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee have you attended ?
Mr. IMiLLER. I could not tell exactly. I have been rather erratic
in my attendance at their meetings, and I have not paid particular
attention to them.
Mr. Sourwine. You have attended some meetings ?
Mr. ]\IiLLER. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine. Can you tell the committee who acted as chairman
at any of the meetings you attended ?
Mr. AIiLLER. I think I didn't recall who, and I have not subse-
quently remembered, who the chainnen were.
Mr. SoTjRwiNE. Have you been here all day and seen witnesses who
have testified before you testified ?
Mr. Miller. I have.
Mr. Sourwine. Did you recognize any of those individuals as mem-
bers of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Miller. I recognized them as members who had, some of them,
been along on the tour, or all of them had been along on the tour.
As to whether they had membership in the committee, I do not
know.
Mr. Sourwine. You say "on the tour," you mean the tour to Cuba
under the auspices of the Detroit Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Miller. That is correct.
Mr. Sourwine. You sa;^ all of the witnesses who preceded you, with
the exception of the detective, were on that tour ?
Mr. Miller. That is correct. And he should have been there.
Mr. Sourwine. Did you recognize any of those witnesses as persons
you had seen at the meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Miller. Pardon me. Did I recognize them as being
Mr. Sourwine. As having been seen by you at Fair Play for Cuba
Committee meetings ?
Mr. Miller. Some of them ; yes, I presume so.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you rememl>er having seen Mr. Edward Shaw
at meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Miller. Yes; Ed Shaw was in evidence at some meetings, and
some that weren't fair play, as I understand it.
316 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember seeing Mrs. Eita Shaw at meet-
ings of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Miller. That is correct.
She was a director and took care of all the transportation, and a
great deal of work involved.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you remember having seen Nathan Rosenshine
at any meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Miller. I do not. I didn't know him well enough to have a
nodding acquaintance with him until we met here in Washington.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember having seen Joseph Bernstein at
meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ^
Mr. Miller. Not at any Fair Play Committee ; no.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember having seen Eeva Bernstein at
any meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee i
Mr. Miller. I do not ; no.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you remember having seen Arnold Sabaroff at
any meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Miller. It is possible he was at one meeting, but this particular
meeting there were probably himdreds of people there, and I don't re-
member, I didn't talk to him personally.
Mr. SoLTRWixE. All we want is your recollection, sir.
Do you remember having seen David Wellman at meetings of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Miller. Yes ; on one occasion, at least.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Miller^
Senator Keating. Excuse me.
How many of those meetings did you attend, Mr. Miller ?
Mr. Miller. To count them, I would say it would be two or three
meetings. And this would be from a period before I went to Cuba
to this time.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you know who are the officers of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee chapter in Detroit ?
Mr. Miller. I do not.
Mr. Sourwine. Have you participated in picketing or demonstra-
tions sponsored by the Fair Play for Cuba Coimnittee in Detroit ?
Mr. Miller. I have.
Mr. Sourwine. I show you a photograph which is in the record of
the hearing as exhibit 42, and I ask if you recognize this as a photo-
graph of a number of persons in a picket line, one of whom is yourself ?
Mr. Miller. I recognize myself.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you recognize any other persons in that photo-
graph? \
Mr. Miller. No ; I do not. ^
Well, I can recognize the faces of only about five people there, and of
those people I cannot recognize any of them except myself.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you recognize them as persons you know, but do
not recall the names of, is that what you mean ?
Mr. Miller. Well, to my knowledge, these faces are not familiar,
and I would not recognize them.
Mr. Sourwine. Very good, sir.
Now, do you recall having seen any of the witnesses who testified
here today in picket lines ?
Mr. Miller. I am not sure. I don't think so.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 317
Mr, SouRwiNE. Do you know Edward Shaw as regional director of
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Miller. Excuse me.
I must say that I recognize Edward Shaw as being at the picket
line.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Mr. Shaw to be regional director of
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, Midwest regional director?
Mr. Miller. I understand that is his position, whatever it is, what-
ever it means.
Mr. SoLTRWiNE. Now, how many persons were there in the group
who went to Cuba in December 1960, under the sponsorship of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mv. INItller. We were told that there was betAveen 300 and 350, and
I assume that is correct.
Mr. SouRAViNE. Do you know how many of these were from Detroit,
approximately ?
jVIr. JSIiLLER. No ; I do not. But in evaluating the crowd and those
people, I would say it might have been from 20 to 30 from the Detroit
and Ann Arbor area.
JMr. SouRwiNE. Did the persons from that area all travel together
to embark ?
Mr. Miller. No; they all traveled separately or in groups, small
groups.
Mr. SouRWiNE. What did you pay for this trip to Cuba ?
Mr. Miller. I paid $100 from Miami to Havana.
Mr. SouRwiNE. And to whom did you make this payment ?
Mr. Miller. To the New York office of the Fair Play Committee.
JSIr. SouRwiNE. Plow did you transmit your funds ?
Mr. Miller. By money order.
Mr. SoimwiNE. And how long did the trip last ?
Mr. ]\IiLLER. Well, we were supposed to leave on the 23d, and we
were back on the 2d of January.
Mr. SoTJRW^iNE. The 23d of December to the 2d of January ?
Mr. Miller. Correct.
Mr. Sourwine. Approximately 10 days ?
Mr. Miller. Correct.
Mr. Sourwine. How did you come to go on this trip ; that is, were
you asked to go on this trip, or did you receive literature advertising
it and respond to that literature ?
Mr. Miller. I understood there was such a trip, or I heard about it,
and I understand that it was publicized in the New York Times, and
subsequently, I think, in some other minor papers that told about it,
and when I heard about it
Senator Keating. You mean such as the Detroit Free Press ?
Mr. Miller. I doubt it very much.
Mr. Sourwine. Where did you first hear about it, Mr. Miller?
Mr. Miller. I think it was through literature that I had received
through the mail, and how they got my name on the mailing list, I
don't know.
Mr. Sourwine. Who was in charge of the Detroit group on that trip
to Cuba ?
Mr. MiIvLER. As far as I know — I know who did most of the work,
and that was Rita and Ed Shaw.
318 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRWiNE. You mean Mrs. Reva Bernstein ?
Mr. JSIiLLER. No, Rita Shaw, and her husband, Ed.
Mr. SouRWixE. Do you know who was in charge of the whole group
of some 300 or 350?
Mr. IVIiLLER. No ; I do not.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you meet Fidel Castro while you were in Cuba ?
Mr. Miller. No, but I stood almost as close as you are to me while
he was delivering at least a 2-hour lecture which I didn't understand,
but I was amazed at the access that we had to him ; there were some
members of the group who went up and got pictures with him, but I
was not so bold.
Mr. SouRwiNE. TVliere were you quartered in Havana ?
Mr. Miller. In the Hotel Riviera.
Mr. Sourwine. And did your $100 fee pay not only your expenses
from Miami to Havana and back, but also all your living expenses in
Havana ?
Mr. Miller. That is correct. You can't miss it ; it is a good deal.
Senator Keathstg. It sure is.
Mr. SouRwus-E. Were you well fed ?
Mr. Miller. Very well.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Miller, have you attended any meetings of the
Communist Party, U.S.A. ?
Mr. Miller. No ; not to my knowledge.
Mr. Sourwine. You are not a member of the Communist Partv,
U.S.A.?
Mr. Miller. No.
Senator Keating. And never have been ?
Mr. Mn.LER. No.
Mr. Sourwine. I take it you are not in any way ashamed of your
association with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee or of your trip
to Cuba?
Mr. Miller. That is correct.
Mr. Sourwine. You have testified about it here freely and fully in
response to all the questions ?
Mr. Miller. Correct.
Mr. Sourwine. I have no more questions of this witness, Mr.
Chairman.
Senator Keating. And I have no more questions. Thank you very
much, Mr. Miller.
Mr. Miller. Could I submit a statement to the group ? I have not
got it printed out. Could I read it to you ?
Senator Keating. Is it very long ?
Mr. Miller. No, it is not very long.
Senator Keating. Did you hear the statement of Mr. Shaw which
he read here?
Mr. ]\IiLLER. Yes.
Senator Keating. Is it any longer than that ?
Mr. Miller. No, it is shorter than that.
Senator Keating. You mn v read it.
Mr. Miller. From December 23 to January 2, I took part in a tour
to Cuba. The tour was a public tour that anybody could take ad-
vantage of.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 319
We were free to go on arranged tours or spend all of our time as we
chose. There were at least 500 visitors in Havana at the same time,
and of this number I am sure 90 percent were earnestly hoping to
return to make a genuine people-to-people exchange.
We have been and are now subsidizing such exchanges, but where
jnany hundreds would gladly pay their own way, we have shut the
door.
I say these things as an individual. No person or organization is
responsible for my beliefs and concepts of human relations except
myself. Nor am I responsible for the beliefs and concepts of others.
I shall not knowdngly do or suggest anything to hurt another person.
I shall do all in my power to secure better human relations with all of
God's creatures on this planet and other planets, too, as we learn to
communicate with them. The human family has a big job to do com-
mimicating and understanding right here and now.
To this end I devote my life. To this end I hope you may advise
just laws.
Senator I^ating. Thank you, Mr. Miller.
I want to say that you have been very cooperative with this com-
mittee. There is nothing m our records which is in any way deroga-
tory about you and your character. And we are gi-ateful to you for
your cooperation.
Mr. Miller. Thank you.
Senator Keating. Mr. Miller, I want to ask you this question.
Have you read the letter written by Mr. Daniel J. Rosenshine to the
Fair Play Committee both in the New York office and Mr. Ed Shaw
in Detroit?
Mr. Miller. I have not, except as it was read here in the room.
Senator Keating. Did you hear it read in the room ?
Mr. Miller. I did hear it.
Senator Iveating. Do you agree with the sentiments which Mr.
Rosenshine expresses?
Mr. Miller. I think this point of agreeing and not agreeing is — we
agree in some things and not in others. And this is true of every per-
son. And it also could be said that probably Mr. Rosenshine at the age
of 20 will say something different than he did at 17.
He made a wonderful statement, and I think his forthrightness is
commendable. But this does not say that he could not be in error in
some areas.
Andj as I say, I would agree at some points; I would enjoy talking
with him over a period of years about such things as that.
But this is out of my province at the present time.
Senator Keating. Thank you very much.
Mr. Goodman. Mr. Chairman, just one point.
Mr. Sabaroff has made a request of me to request the committee for
the return of the document which you say you impounded which he
claims he has a legal right to. And, franldy, I think he has a legal
right to make the request for the return.
So I am doing so, at his request.
Senator Keating. The documents were offered for the committee
and were received, subject to the determination as to their receipt.
320 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
In the case of the first witness who was questioned, he withdrew his
statement, and it was returned to him. The others will be impounded
by the committee.
Mr. Goodman. Well, he raises an objection, and I make it on his be-
half to the continued impounding of the document.
Senator Iveating, The objection is overruled.
That will conclude the testimony with regard to this matter.
The investigations of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in all of
its facets and ramifications, both nationally and in local chapters, will
continue, and nothing could be more important to the security of our
country than the further continuance of that examination.
(Whereupon, at 5:05 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.)
o
INDEX
Note. — The Senate Internal Security Subcommittee attaches no significance
to the mere fact of the appeai-ance of the name of an individual or an organiza-
tion in this index.
Page
American League for Peace and Democracy 301
B
Beals, Carleton 288
Bergquist, Laura 287, 288
Bernstein, Joseph 246-249, 300-302, 308, 316
Testimony of 300-302
Bernstein, Reva 248, 249, 308, 309, 313, 314
Testimony of 308, 309, 313, 314
Breltman, Dorothy 260, 261
Brown, Sidney 273
C
Capote, Truman 294
Castro, Fidel 246, 285, 296
Central Intelligence Agency 298
Chase Manhattan Bank, New York City 281
Christmas in Cuba project 261,293
Committee for Improved Cuban-American Relations (at University of
Michigan) 292, 293
Communist Government of Cuba 250
Communist Party, USA 250, 275, 301, 309, 313
Ben Davis Club of the 309
Communist Pai-ty of Michigan 246
Communist Party, Michigan State Convention of 302
Cotton, Senator Norris 237
D
Daily Collegian (Wayne State University) 293
de Beauvoir, Simone 294
Democratic Socialists 292
Detroit Bank & Trust Co ; 281
Detroit Fair Play for Cuba Committee 257, 262, 282, 303, 309, 310, 315
Detroit News 300
Detroit Police Department 237
Dodd, Senator Thomas J 251
Dubois, Jules 282, 287, 405
B
Eisenhower, President 296
Elsia, David L 273
Everett, Jack 292
Exhibit 37— Photo of Ed Shaw 239
Exhibit 38— Photo, Shaw's car 240
Exhibit 39 — Photo, Shaw and Miller in picket line in front of Detroit
City Hall 241
Exhibit 40— Photo, Shaw's home 242
Exhibit 41 — Photo, Rita Shaw in picket line 243
Exhibit 42 — Photo, Martin Miller in picket line 244
Exhibit 43 — Photo, David Wellman in picket line 245
Exhibit 44 — Photo, David Wellman in picket line 246
Exhibit 45 — Photo, Joseph Bernstein 247
Exhibit 46 — Letter signed by Edward Shaw 264
Exhibit 46-A — Voucher signed by Edward Shaw 271
I
II INDEX
Page
Exhibit 46-B — Letter signed by Edward Shaw 272
Exhibit 46-C — Report on signature comparison re Edward Shaw 273
Exhibit 4&-D — Letter transmitting report on signature comparison re
Edward Shaw 273
Exhibit 47— HandbiU, "Castro's Cuba" 277
Exhibit 48— Handbill, "The Cuba I Saw" 280
Exhibit 49 — "Communists Never Miss a Trick," from the Wyandotte
(Mich.) Tribune 282
Exhibit 50 — "Youth Disputes Report on Castro," from Manistique (Mich.)
Pioneer Tribune 283
Exhibits 51 and 51-A — Editorials re Jules Dubois at Michigan Press As-
sociation 284, 285
Exhibit 52 — Editorial from Grand Ledge (Mich.) Independent 286
Exhibit 53 — Open letter to Michigan Press Association from Fair Play for
Cuba Committee 287, 288
Exhibit 54— "Michigan Fair Play Newsletter" 290, 291
Exhibit 55— "Cool Yule in Cuba," from Wayne Collegian 293,294
Exhibit 56— Letter to Editor of Wanderer re FPCC 295
Exhibit 57 — Editorial from South Haven (Mich.) Tribune 305
F
"Fair Play Supplement" 297
Faulkner, Stanley 249-300
"Freedom Is My Beat," by Jules Dubois 282
G
Gibson, Richard 288
Goodman, Ernest 301
Grand Ledge (Mich.) Independent 286
Guantanamo 285
Gurley, Will 292
H
Havana Riviera Hotel 294
Herreshoff, David 260
Himmel, Robert 262
Huberman, Leo 294
I
Independent Socialist Group 281
International Workers Order 301
Iron River (Mich.) Reporter 284
J
John Birch Society 268
Jones, Louis 292
K
Kalish, Barry 294
Kaufman, Arnold 292
Keating, Senator Kenneth 237
Kessler, Arnold 260, 294
Killens, John 294
Kline, Gretchen 292
Kowalski, Stanley 237-249, 311, 312
Testimony of 237-249
L
Logan Act 299
Look magazine 287
M
Manistique (Mich.) Pioneer Tribune 283
Matthews, Herbert 288, 296
Mazey, Ernest 259, 260
Michigan Daily 292
INDEX III
Page
"Michigau Fair Play Newsletler" 290,291
Michigan Press Association (MPA) 282-287,304,305
Michigan State University 284
Miller, Martin 243-245, 248, 249, 304, 314-319
Mills, C. Wright 294
Minnesota University 295
Moore, Eugene 284
N
NAACP 295
New York Times 296
Northfiekl (Minn.) Fair Play for Cuba Committee 296
P
Political Science Department 281
Princeton University poll 288
R
"Rebel, Liberator, or Dictator," by Jules Dubois 282
Regal, James 292
Rhee, Syngman 296
Rosenshine, Daniel 285, 289, 303, 305-307
Rosenshine, Nathan 248, 302-308, 316
Testimony of 302-308
S
Sabaroff, Arnold 310, 311, 314, 319
Testimonv of 310, 311, 314
Sartre, Jean Paul 294
Shaw, Edward 237-243, 245, 246, 248-300, 303, 306, 309, 310, 315, 317, 318
Testimony of 250-300
Shaw, Rita 243, 254, 255, 316, 317
Socialist Workers Party 238,254,255,275
South Haven (Mich.) Tribune 303,305
Stone, I. F 294
Swanson, Governor (Michigan) 285
Sweeney, Paul 294
Sweezey, Paul 261
T
Taber, Robert 275-277, 288
Talan, Harriet 262, 294
Tynan, Kenneth 294
U
United States Information Agency (USIA) 288
University of Michigan 265, 289, 292
University of Michigan Fair Play for Cuba Committee 289
W
Wandered (publication) 294
Wayne (Mich.) Dispatch 284
Wayne State University 260-262,265,269,293,311
Wellman, David 244, 248, 311-314
Testimony of 311-314
Wellman, Sol and Mignon 244,311,312
Wigle, James Bruce 292,293
Williams, Mennen 296
Williams. Robert F 295,297
Worthington, Frank 285
Wyandotte (Mich.) Tribune 282,285
Z
Zampaglione, Nick 294
o
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
fi H
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE
ADMINISTRATION OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY
ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL SECURITY LAWS
OP THE
COMMITTEE ON^ THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
EIGHTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
PART 4
JUNE 12, 13, 1961
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
U.S. GOVERN]VrENT PRINTING OFFICE
64139 WASHINGTON : 1961
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi, Chairman
ESTES KEFAUVER, Tennessee ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina EVERETT McKINLEY DIRKSEN, Illinois
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas ROMAN L. HRUSKA, Nebraska
SAM J. ERVIxV, Jr., North Carolina KENNETH B. KEATING, New York
JOHN A. CARROLL, Colorado NORRIS COTTON, New Hampshire
THOMAS J. DODD, Connecticut
PHILIP A. HART, Michigan
EDWARD V. LONG, Missouri
WM. A. BLAKLEY, Texas
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration of the Intebnax Secitbitt
Act and Othee Internal Security Laws
JAMES 0. EASTLAND, Mississippi, Chairman
THOMAS J. DODD, Connecticut, Vice Chairman
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina ROMAN L. HRUSKA, Nebraska
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas EVERETT McKINLEY DIRKSEN, Illinois
SAM J. ERVIN, Jr., North Carolina KENNETH B. KEATING, New York
NORRIS COTTON, New Hampshire
J. O. SoTJRWiNE, Counsel
Benjamin Mandel, Director of Research
n
CONTENTS
Testimony of — I'»K®
Kirsch, Herman 321, 413, 416
Levev, Max Lawrence 341,400
Tekla, Tad 347,406,411
Tussey, Jean 338, 389, 391
Tussey, Richard B 334, 355
Ungvary, Sgt. John J 385, 415
Resolution
Resolved hy the Internal Security Subcommittee of the Senate
Committee on the Judiciary^ That the testimony given in executive
session by Herman Kirsch, Richard B. Tussey, Jean Tussey, Max Law-
rence Levey, Tad Tekla, and John J. Ungvary on June 12 and June
13, 1961, re the Fair Play for Cuba Committee be released from the
injunction of secrecy, be printed, and made public.
James O. Eastland, Chairman.
Thomas J. Dodd,
Olin D. Johnston.
John L. McClellan.
Sam J. Ervin, Jr.
Roman L. Hruska.
Everett McKinlet Dirk sen.
Kenneth B. Keating.
NoRRis Cotton.
Dated: June 24, 1961.
nx
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA C0M3IITTEE
MONDAY, JUNE 12, 1961
U.S. Senate,
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration
OF THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal
Security Laws, of the Committee on the Judiciary,
Washington^ D.C.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 2 :29 p.m. in room 2300,
New Senate Office Building, Senator Thomas J. Dodd presiding.
Present : Senators Dodd and Kenneth B. Keating.
Also present: J. G. Sourwine, chief counsel; Benjamin Mandel,
research director; and Frank Schroeder, chief investigator.
Senator Dodd. The committee will come to order.
Raise your right hand, please.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give before this
committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothmg but the truth,
so help you God ?
Mr. Kirsch. I do.
Senator Dodd. Be seated and give your name and address to the
reporter.
TESTIMONY OF HEEMAN KIRSCH
Mr. Kirsch. ]\Iy name is Herman Kirsch, 4832 East 84tli Street.
Mr. SouR\viNE. New York City ?
Mr. Kirsch. No, in Cleveland, Ohio.
Mr. Sourwine. You are accompanied by counsel ?
Mr. Kirsch. Yes, I am.
Mr. Sourwine. Would you identify yourself for the record, sir?
Mr. Faulkner. Stanley Faulkner, 9 East 40th Street, New York,
N.Y.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Kirsch
Mr. Kirsch. Are you Mr. Dodd ?
Mr. Sourwine. No, this is Senator Dodd, Mr. Kirsch.
What other names have you been laiown by ?
Mr. Kirsch. Before I answer any questions, can I ask why I am
being subpenaed ?
Senator Dodd. Counsel, you tell him.
Mr. SouRw^NE. It seems like a reasonable request.
The subcommittee is much interested in the activities of the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee. This committee has a mandate from the
Senate to keep itself abreast of the Communist Party and its affiliates
and subsidiaries and front groups for the purpose of constantly ap-
praising the legislative possibilities of dealing with this tlireat to our
country's security.
321
322 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
The committee has information that the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee— as a matter of fact, we have sworn testimony on the record
that the Fair Play for Cuba Committee was initiated with the as-
sistance of money which came from Castro in Cuba. This is Commu-
nist money.
The committee has evidence that some of the persons active in the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee itself are Communists. The commit-
tee has information that old line Communists, all across the comitry,
are helping the committee in its demonstrations and in its organiza-
tion.
The committee is anxious, therefore, to learn as much as it can about
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, its connections, its activities, its
program, its objectives, the people who are in it, the people who are
running it.
The committee has information that you are connected with the Fair
Play for Cuba Conuiiittee in the Cleveland area, and that is why you
have been called.
Mr. KiRSCH. Senator, may I read a statement to the committee?
Senator Dodd. Not until after we have completed our questions.
Mr. KiRSCH. I would like to be able to read it now.
Senator Dodd. No.
Go ahead, Mr. Sourwine.
You will be given a full oppoi-tunity, you need not worry. You
will have ample chance to say anything that is reasonable and within
the rules of the committee, but we want to conduct our hearing now
and we shall go ahead and do it.
Mr. KiRSCH. May I ask what legislative purposes these are for?
Mr. Sourwine. I have already answered that question. The com-
mittee has the duty of reporting on all legislative means the com-
mittee can devise for meeting the Communist threat. The gathering of
information on the basis of which we may appraise the situation and
decide whether or not legislation can be phrased or formed to meet
particular facets of this threat is a valid legislative purpose.
Might I ask if the statement you are proffering is in any way a chal-
lege to the jurisdiction of the committee or a statement of the reasons
for which you do not wish to testify ?
If it is, I would respectfully suggest that you are entitled, when a
question is asked, to object, and if you have any statement of reasons
for the objection, the proper place to put them m the record is at that
time.
Mr. Faulkner. I just looked at the statement. I would say that it
does not appear to be a challenge to the jurisdiction of the committee.
It is a challenge to the hearing itself.
Senator Dodd. Well, let us get on with the hearing.
Proceed, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. SouR\viNE. The question pending, Mr. Kirsch, is what other
names, if any, you have been laiown by.
Senator Dodd. Let the record show that the witness is conferring
with counsel and the length of time the conference takes.
(Witness consults with comisel 30 seconds.)
]\Ir. Kirsch. May I ask what the relevancy of the question is to the
announced purpose of the hearing ?
Mr. Sourwine. This is an attempt to find out what other, if any,
identities you have had.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 323
Mr, KiRscii. I must decline to answer on tlie grounds of the first
amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you ever been known by the name of Herman
Kirshenbaum, K-i-r-s-h-e-n-b-a-u-m ?
Mr. KiRSCii. I must decline to answer that on the grounds of the
first amendment.
Mr. SouRvviNE. Have you ever used the name of Herman Kirschen-
baum, K-i-r-s-c-h-e-n-b-a-u-m ?
Mr. KiRSCH. I must decline to answer that on the grounds of free
speech and association.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, the witness' objections to these ques-
tions do not appear to invoke the fifth amendment against testifying
against himself. I must respectfully suggest that the first amendment
claim he has made is not a valid reason for refusing to answer these
questions.
Senator Dodd. The chair so rules : That it is not a valid reason for
refusing to answer the question. The chair orders you to answer the
question.
Mr. KiRSCH. Since this committee does not recognize the right of
the first amendment, I must invoke the constitutional right wliich says
that I cannot be compelled to answer against myself .
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you, on the grounds of the constitutional right
of the fifth amendment not to testify against yourself, refuse to answer
each and every one of the questions I have asked you ?
Mr. KiRSCH. That is correct.
Mr. SouRWTNE. Have you ever used the name Bob Kingsley,
K-i-n-g-s-1-e-y ?
Mr. ICiRSCH. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds — I'll
decline to answer that question on the grounds that it violates my
rights under the fifth amendment; I can't be compelled to give testi-
mony against myself.
Mr. SouRWiNE, Isn't it true that you were bom Herman Kirschen-
baum and that your name was legally changed to the name of Herman
Kirsch on February 25, 1950, by order of the Cuyahoga Comity court
in Ohio?
Mr. KiRSCH. Since the committee does not recognize the right of the
first amendment, I must decline to answer that question on the ground
that I would be bearing testimony against myself.
Mr. SouRWiNE. I call your attention, sir, to the fact that you are
under oath. That being the case, I think you may want to modify
your statement. As you well know, the committee has not stated that
the committee does not recognize the first amendment. The Chair
has ruled that your claim of privilege under the first amendment is not
a valid basis for refusing to answer the committee's questions.
Now will you please tell the committee on what possible theory —
I am not asking you for facts — just a possible theory under which the
fact that your name was once Herman Kirschenbaum and was legally
changed by order of an Ohio court to Herman Kirsch, could possibly
incriminate you in any way ?
(Witness consults with counsel, 10 seconds.)
Mr. KiRSCii. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. SouRWiNE. On what grounds ?
324 FAIR PLAT FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. Kjrsch. On the grounds that I might be — I must decline to an-
swer the question on the constitutional right that I can't be compelled
to testify against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, I do not believe there is a possible
way in which a truthful answer to that question can incriminate the
witness, and I ask that he be ordered to answer it.
Senator Dodd, The Chair rules that you answer that question and
orders you to answer that question.
Mr. KiRSCH. I cannot be compelled to be a witness against myself.
I'm trying to answer under my constitutional rights.
Senator Dodd. You refuse to answer. Very well, the record will be
made.
Mr. SouRwiNE. ^Vliere were you born and when ?
Mr. KiRSCH. I decline to answer on the groimds that I can't be com-
pelled to be a witness against myself, on the constitutional grounds.
Senator Dodd. The Chair orders you to answer that question.
Mr. KiRSCH. I beg your pardon ?
Senator Dodd. The Chair orders you to answer the question.
Mr. KiRSCH. 1 decline to answer that on the constitutional right
that I must not be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you an American citizen ?
(Witness consults with counsel, 25 seconds.)
Mr. KiRscTi, What I'm trying to ask my counsel is what relevancy
this has with the whole proposed hearing. These are far-aside ques-
tions, what m}' name is. 1 have given my name.
Senator Dodd. I see. You have been told by counsel that these ques-
tions are relevant, first of all, for purposes of identification. Now I
instructed you to answer these questions.
Mr. KiRscii. Mr. Dodd, I did identify myself.
Senator Dodd. This question is one of the last two or three which
you have refused to answer. You have now been asked, Are you an
American citizen ?
The Chair orders you to answer the question.
Mr. SouRwiNE. If the Chair wishes, counsel will be glad to make
a further statement of pertinency of this question.
Senator Dodd. I think it would be advisable.
Mr. SouRwiNE. As you have been informed, the committee has a
mandate from the Senate to keep itself abreast of the Communist
Party and its affiliates and subsidiaries and front groups. The com-
mittee has information respecting your association with the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee. The committee is interested to know what man-
ner of man you are. The question as to whether you are an American
citizen is proper under the circumstances.
(The witness consults with his counsel, 10 seconds.)
Mr. KiRscH. Yes. I must say that I am an American citizen and
I'm proud of it.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you born in the United States ?
Mr. KiRSCH. Yes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Where ?
Mr. KiRscH. New York City.
Mr. SouRwiNE. When ?
Mr. KiRSCH. 1921.
Mr. SouRAViNE. November 1, 1921 ?
Mr. IviRSCH. That's right.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 325
Mr. SouRwiNE. Under the name of Herman Kirsclienbamn ?
Mr. KiRScii. I must decline to answer that question.
Senator Dodd. I think you opened the subject ; I order you to answer
it.
Mr. KiRSCH. I must decline to answer on my constitutional rights,
but I can't be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Senator Dodd. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you married, Mr. Kirsch?
(Witness consults with counsel, 25 seconds.)
Mr. KiRSCH. The question was, Am I married, sir ?
Mr. Sour WINE. Yes.
Mr. IviRscH. Yes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You were married to the former Alameda Stalil,
S-t-a-h-1?
Mr. KiRSCH. Yes.
;Mr. SouRwiNE. Wliat is your connection with the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee?
]Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that question on my consti-
tutional rights of free speech and association.
Mr. Sour WINE. You are a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee, are you not ?
Mr. KiRscH, I must decline to answer that question, too, on my con-
stitutional rights.
JSIr. SouR^viNE. Now, on the last question before this one you re-
fused on a strictly first amendment basis. You now say your consti-
tutional rights. Are you embracing your claim of privilege under the
fifth amendment?
JNIr. KiRscH. Under the amendment where I can't be compelled to
testify against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. That applies to both of the questions ?
Mr. KiRSCTi. Yes.
]Mr. SouRwiNE. Isn't it true that you are not only a member of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee, but that you are also a member of the
Cleveland chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that on the grounds I can't
be compel led to testify against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you state when you first became a member?
ISIr. Kirsch. Must I repeat myself, that I can't be compelled to
testify against myself, and I answered
Mr. SouRwiNE. You were one of the organizers of the Cleveland
chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, were you not ?
]\Ir. Kirsch. I decline to answer that question, likewise, on my con-
stitutional rights not to be compelled to be a witness against myself. ^
Mr. SouinviNE. Mr. Kirsch, didn't you attend a meeting of the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Kirsch. Pardon?
ISIr. SouRwiNE. I can't compete with counsel.
Senator Dodd. If you want to consult with your counsel on every
question that is asked, that is perfectly all right. But you will have
to tell us when you do, because it is impossible for me to hear the testi-
mony and for counsel to ask questions with you and your lawyer con-
stantly whispering even before the questions are asked you.
Mr. Kirsch. I'm not a legal man, sir, and I don't know what the
technicalities are.
326 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA C03VIMITTEE
Senator Dodd. I am not asking you to be a legal man, I am asking
you to be a courteous witness.
Mr. KmscH, Very well, sir.
Mr. SoTjRWiNE. Didn't you attend a meeting of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee on November 14, 1960, at the home of Jean Simmons
Tussey ?
Mr. KiRSCH. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds
that it violates my rights of free speech and association.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know Jean Simmons Tussey ?
^Ir. KiRSCii. I must decline to answer that on the same grounds, the
constitutional grounds of the first amendment rights of free speech
and association.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You have, during the last two answers, reverted
again to a claim of only the first amendment privilege. I must tell
you that if you mean to claim your fifth amendment privilege not to
be a witness against yourself in refusing to answer any particular
question, you should claim it. Did you intend to claim it as a basis
for refusing to answer each of the last two questions?
Mr. KiRSCH. Excuse me. (Witness consults with counsel, 10
seconds.)
No, I am using the first amendment, the free speech and association.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Now 111 ask you this question again so that the
record may be made clear.
Did you not attend a meeting of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
on November 14, 1960, at the home of Jean Simmons Tussey?
Mr. KiRSCH. I must decline to answer that question, likewise, on
the grounds of free speech and association of the first amendment.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Chairman, this is not a valid reason for not
answering that question, and I ask that the witness be instructed to
answer, notwithstanding his claim of privilege.
Senator Dodd. The Chair instructs you to answer the question.
Mr. KiRSCH. Since the committee does not recognize the first
amendment, I must decline to answer that question
Senator Dodd. Just a minute. This is the third, fourth, or fifth
time you have said that the committee does not recognize the first
amendment.
Mr. KiRscii. I just said
Senator Dodd. Just wait a minute, or you will be in more trouble.
We are going to talk one at a time, and you have been difficult enough,
but now, and I want this carefully on the record. You are not going
to make any insulting or untruthful remarks about this committee in
this hearing, and I am not going to permit you to do it once more.
If you have any privileges to claim, state them, but don't malign or
accuse this committee of anything unless you can prove it.
Go ahead, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. I think the record stands that the witness has been
ordered, notwithstanding his claim of first amendment privilege,
to answer a question about attending a meeting of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee at the home of Jean Tussey.
Mr. KmscH. I said once before that this is the first amendment
of free speech and association, and it seems obvious to me that you're
refusing to recognize my first amendment rights.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 327
Senator Dodd. This is something quite different. We are refusing
you the claim on which you have refused to answer the question. But
to say that this committee does not recognize the first amendment is
something else altogether.
]\Ir. SouKwiNE. You have a right, as I'm sure your counsel will
advise you, to free speech, to free association. You do not have a right
to refuse to testify about your associations when those associations
are pertinent to the committee's inquiry, as this question is.
Mr, Faulkner. That is entirely so, Mr. Sourwine, because he can
exercise his privilege under the fifth amendment and does not have
to answer the question.
Senator Dodd. We are fully aware of that, Mr. Faulkner, and I
tliink you are fully aware of the fact, too, that he is not saying that.
He has been saying that this committee does not recognize the first
amendment.
Mr. Faulkner. The witness said the committee does not recognize
the first amendment because he has not had the opportunity of having
those rights accepted by the committee.
Senator Dodd. I don't know what you have been whispering about
down there, but I don't think there has been a question asked yet that
he hasn't had a conference with you before he answered it.
Mr. Faulkxer. You wouldn't indicate that he has not the right to
discuss it with me?
Senator Dodd. No, we are happy to have him. First of all, we want
to have him silent, and not wliispering or conferring while counsel
is attempting to put a question.
Mr. Sourwine. The committee recognizes your rights and every
other person's rights under the first amendment. The committee's
position, as I undei^tand it, is that j^our rights under the first amend-
ment do not permit you the right to refuse to answer this question.
For that reason, I have asked and the Chair has ordered that you
answer the question as to whether you attended a meeting of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee on November 14, 19G0, at the home
of Jean Simmons Tussey.
Mr. KiRSCH. I must decline to answer that question under the con-
stitutional rights of the fifth amendment; I cannot be compelled to
answer against myself.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you know Jean Simmons Tussey?
Mr. KiRSCiT. I must decline to answer that on the grounds that it
violates my rights of free speech and association.
Mr. Sourwine. I ask that the witness be requested— that he be in-
structed to answer the question, notwithstanding his claim of the
first amendment privilege.
Senator Dodd. Yes, I instruct you to answer the question.
(Witness consults with counsel, 10 seconds.)
Mr. KiRscn. Under the circumstances of this order, I must refuse
to answer the question on the grounds that I can't be compelled to
testify against myself.
Mr. Sourwine. Isn't it true, Mr. Kirsch, that you did attend a
meeting at the home of Jean Tussey on November 14, 1960, and that
the purpose of this meeting, known to you at the time, was to apply
to the New York office of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee for a
chapter and an organizing committee in the Cleveland area ?
328 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. KiRscH. I must decline to answer that question on the consti-
tutional right that I cannot be compelled to be a witness against
myself.
Mr. SoTTRWTNE. Didn't you attend a meeting of the committee on
November 17, 1960?
Mr. KiKSCH. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds
that 1 can't be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you not, on that occasion, to wit November 17,
19G0, give a report of the activities of the committee?
Mr. KiRscii. I must decline to answer that question on the consti-
tutional right that I can't be compelled to be a witness against
myself.
Senator Keating. Could you explain, Mr. Kirsch, what offense you
think this might tend to incriminate you with regard to?
Mr. Kirsch. Pardon me.
(Witness consults with counsel, 10 seconds.)
Mr. Kirsch. With all due respect to the committee, I must again
repeat that I am not obliged to be a witness against myself.
Senator Keating. I understand that, and we accept that principle,
of course, but you have answered, in answer to a series of these ques-
tions, that you fear that they might tend to incriminate you. What
I'm seeking to find out is in what respect you feel they miglit tend to
incriminate you, with regard to what offense they might tend to in-
criminate you ?
Mr. KiHscii. Excuse me.
(Witness consults with counsel, 5 seconds.)
Mr. Kirsch. Yes, of course. I didn't say that it would incriminate
me at all. I just said that I was standing on my constitutional
right against bearing witness against myself, with no incrimination
invohed.
Mr. SouRWTNE. Don't you understand, sir, that your fifth amend-
ment privilege is a privilege not to give testimony which might form
even a link in a chain to connect you with some offense?
Mr. Kirsch. I also understand my constitutional rights of free
speech and association, sir.
Senator Kp:atixg. On which amendment are you basing your
rights? The first or the fifth.
Mr. Kirsch. The first and the fifth.
Senator Keating. Counsel's question was with regard to the fifth.
Senator Donn. By the way. Senator Keating, I have instructed him
to answer when he has objected on the grounds of the first amendment.
Then he has resorted to the fifth amendment. This has been repeated
here before you came into the hearing, several times.
Senator Keating. When you rely on the fifth amendment, you must
rely on the fact that your evidence might tend to incriminate you in
some way.
Now, what I am seeking to find out is what offense it might tend
to incriminate you for. I do not know whether you are talking about
failure to register as a foreign agent, or whether you are talking about
the Smith Act, or in what respect you feel it might tend to incriminate
you.
Mr. Kirsch. Pardon me.
(Witness consults with counsel, 13 seconds.)
FAIR PLAT FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 329
Mr. KiRscii. You are Senator Keating ?
Senator Keating. Yes.
Mr. KiKscii. With all respect to you, sir, I must decline to answer
that question, on the grounds that I would be compelled to be a
witness against myself.
Mr. ^5uuRwiNE. Mr. Kirsch, you understand do you not, that the
fifth amendment is not an absolute right of silence, and that in order
to claim this privilege, you must honestly believe that a truthful
answer to the question, if given, might tend to form at least a link
in a chain to somehow connect you with some kind of a prosecution?
Mr. Kirsch. Mr. Sourwine
Mr. Faulkner. Mr. Senator, if you will permit me, 1 think that
there is a corollary to what Mr. Sourwine said, and I don't think that
is entirely a complete explanation of the fifth amendment, because he
knows as well as I do that the fifth amendment was not enacted only
for the purpose of protecting the guilty, but also for protecting the
innocent.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Chairman, when I make a statement, I shall be
willing to argue with counsel about it, but I asked the witness a
question regarding his understanding of the fifth amendment. Under
the circunisances, I tliink we ai-e entitled to have the witness' under-
standing of that without argument from counsel.
Mr. Faulkner. 1 think the witness should be allowed to give the
full picture.
Senator Dodd. Let us have the answer from the witness.
Mr. Kirsch. Excuse me.
(Witness consults with counsel, 10 seconds.)
Mr. Kirsch. I again decline to answer the question on the grounds
that I can't be compelled to be a witness against myself, and that
is all I may say at this time.
Mr. Sourwine. Fll ask you this question.
Do you honestly feel that a truthful answer to the last question
respecting the meeting at the home of Jean Tussey on November
14, 19(;0, would tend to form at least a link in a chain to incriminate
you or to connect you in some way with a prosecution?
(Witness consults with counsel, 5 seconds.)
Mr. Kirsch. I must use the amendment on my constitutional rights
not to be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Chairman, it is the opinion of this counsel
that if the witness cannot say that he honestly fears that a truthful
answer would tend to incriminate him or form at least a link in
a chain to connect him with a prosecution, he does not have a right
to claim the fifth amendment privilege.
Under the circumstances, I respectfully request that the Chair
order the witness to answer the question.
Mr. Kirsch. I decline
Senator Dodd. I think it is interesting that you decline before you
are ordered to answer.
Mr. Kirsch. I thought there was a question to answer when I said
I was compelled to answer.
Senator Dodd. The Chair orders you to answer the question.
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that question on my consti-
tutional rights that I cannot be compelled to be a witness against
myself.
330 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you attend a meeting of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee on November 17, 1960, and did you then and there give a
report of tlie activities of the committee ?
Mr. KiRscH. I must decline to answer that question on my consti'
tutional rights of free speech and association.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you honestly fear, Mr. Kirsch, that if you
answered that question
Senator Keating. Wait a minute. That was on his grounds of
free speech and association. I think the Chair should direct him to
answer it.
Senator Dodd. Yes ; I think so, as well.
I must direct you to answer that question. It is not valid reason
for refusing to answer.
Mr. KiRSGH. I must decline to answer that question on my con-
stitutional rights that I can't be compelled to testify against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Kirsch, do you honestly fear that if you
answered that question truthfully, your answer would tend to in-
criminate you, or form at least a link in a chain to comiect you with
some kind of a prosecution ?
Mr. Kirsch. On my constitutional rights, I decline to answer on
the grounds that I cannot be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Senator Dodd. Well, the Chair orders you to answer.
Mr. Kirsch. Once again, I must take that constitutional privilege
of not testifying against myself.
Sir, I asked to make a statment to this committee. If you are really
interested in my tlioughts, you would have let me make that state-
ment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The committee hasn't asked you about your
thoughts, Mr. Kirsch.
Senator Dodd. We are trying to get some information that you
have.
Go ahead, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Kirsch, are jou the same Kirsch who is a mem-
ber of the executive committee and an organizer of the Cleveland
branch of the Socialist Workers Party ?
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline, on the grounds that it violates my first
amendment rights of free speech and association.
Senator Dodd. Again, this first amendment claim that you make,
the Chair rules, is not sufficient grounds for refusing to ansAver that
question, and the Chair orders you to answer the question.
Mr. Kirsch. I must misunderstand the first amendment. It is free
speech and association, and it can mean only one thing.
Senator Dodd. I think you do misunderstand it, and that is w^hy I
have ordered you to answer the question.
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline on the constitutional grounds that I
can't be compelled to be a witness against myself,
Mr. Sourwine. Is it your understandmg, Mr. Kirsch, that the fifth
amendment is an aUernative substitute available to you at your elec-
tion in the event a fii-st amendment privilege is denied ?
Mr. Kirsch. Excuse me.
(Witness consults with counsel.)
Mr. Sourwine. Do you have to ask counsel what your understand-
ing is?
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 331
Mr. KiRscH. No, but I'm not an attorney, and I have stated that
prior to this point.
Mr. Faulkner. Without my client asking me with respect to that
question, 1, as an attorney, must say that 1 am completely at a loss to
understand Mr. Sourwine's question.
Senator Dodd. Very well.
What is the pending question, Mr. Sourwine 1
Senator Keating. I took the question to be that if the witness finds
his privilege under the first amendment overruled, does he think that
in every case, the fifth amendment is an alternative for the first
amendment?
Mr. KiRSCii. Yes, when the occasion arises, I must use it.
Mr. Sourwine. Under the circumstances, Mr. Chairman, I ask that
the witness be ordered and directed to answer the question.
Mr. Kirsch. The question, sir?
Mr. Sourwine. The question is did you attend a meeting of the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee on November 17, 1960, and did you, on that
occasion, give a report of the activities of the committee ?
Mr. KiRSCH. I must decline to answer that question on my constitu-
tional rights that I cannot be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Senator Dodd. Well, certainly, in view of your statement or refusal
to state, rather, in answer to counsel's question, I think that it is abso-
lutely required of the Chair that it order you to answer that question.
Mr. Kirsch. I thought that was an order, sir.
Senator Dodd. What ?
Mr. Faulkner. He said he thought it was an order, and that is when
he used his privilege not to be compelled.
Senator Dodd. I just want to make sure that the record is straight
that you have been ordered to answer the question, and I shall say
that you have refused to answer it.
Mr. Kirsch. For the record, I must repeat that I decline to answer
on my constitutional rights not to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Sourwine. And the next question is, are you the same Kirsch
who is a member of the executive committee and an organizer of the
Cleveland branch of the Socialist Workers Party ?
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that question, on the grounds
that I can't be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Senator Keating. Do you think it would tend to incriminate you to
say that you had some connection with the Socialist Workers' Party?
Mr. Kirsch. I must likewise decline to answer that question on the
constitutional grounds that I can't be compelled to be a witness against
myself.
"Mr. Sourwine. Under the circumstances, Mr. Chairman, I ask that
the witness be ordered and directed to answer the question.
Senator Dodd. The Chair will order you to answer the question.
Mr. Kirsch. Pardon me.
(Witness consults with counsel.)
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer on the constitutional grounds
that I cannot be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Sourwine. Were you told about a tour of Cuba in December
1960, or January 1961, to be held under the auspices of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds
that I cannot be compelled to be a witness against myself.
332 FAIR PLAT FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. Isn't it true that this tour was discussed at the meet-
ing at the home of Jean Tussey on November 14, 1960 ?
Mr. KiRSCii. I must decline to answer tluit question on the constitu-
tional grounds that I cannot be compelled to be a witness against my-
self.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Kirsch, isn't it true that you attended this meet-
ing at the Tussey home on November 14, 1960, and that you then and
there stated that the Fair play for Cuba Connnittee was infiltrated by
Communists, but that some of the Communist Party members had
not paid their $5 dues?
Mr. KiRscn. I must decline to answer that question on my con-
stitutional rights that I camiot be compelled to be a witness against
myself.
ISIr. SouRwiNE. Will you give this subcommittee the information in
your possession with respect to Communist inliltration of the Fair
play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. KiRscn. I must to decline that on the first amendment rights of
free speech and association.
Mr. Soi'RwixE. Mr. Chairman, this is not a siifHcient claim of privi-
lege. I ask that the witness be ordered and be directed to answer tliat
question.
Sentor Donn. The Chair will instruct you to answer the question.
]\Ir. KiRscii. I nuist decline to answer that question on my con-
stitutional grounds that I cannot be compelled to be a witness against
myself.
Mr. SoTJRWTNE. Are you the same Kirsch who has written for "The
Militant," a publication of the Social Workers" Party?
ISIr. Kirsch. I didn't hear you, sir.
Mr. SotnnvTXE. Are you the same Kirsch who has written for "The
Militant," a publication of the Social Workers' Party?
Mr. Kirsch. 1 can't answer tliiit question, or I decline to answer
that question on my constitutional rights not to be a witness against
myself.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Specifically, Mr. Kirsch, did you write an article
which appeared in the April 21, 1945, issue of "The Militant," criticiz-
ing the Communist Party in the Cleveland area as changing its line
and not operating in the interests of the working class?
Mr. Kirsch. I decline to answer that question on the constitutional
right not to be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you honestly believe, Mr. Kirech, that a truthful
answer to this question whether or not you wrote an article which ap-
peared in the April 21, 1945, issue of "The Militant," would tend to
incriminate you in any way or form even a luik in a chain to connect
you with a prosecution ?
Mr. Kirsch. It would, I believe, violate my right of free speech and
association.
Senator Keating. Is that the only gromid on which you decline
to answer?
Mr. Kirsch. At this point ; yes, sir.
Mr. Sour WINE. Under the circumstances, Mr. Chairman, I ask that
the witness be ordered and directed to answer the question.
Senator Dodd. I order you to answer the question.
Mr. Kirsch. I decline to answer on my constitutional right not to
be a witness against myself.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 333
Mr. SouRwiNE. How do you explain the coordination between the
Communist Party and the Socialist Workers' Party in promoting the
Fair Play for Cuba Connnittee?
]\Ir. KiRscH. I must decline to answer that question on the constitu-
tional grounds not to be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Kirsch, are you a member of the Communist
Party U.S.A.?
Mr. KiRscii. Pardon me, sir.
(AVitness consults with his counsel, 5 seconds.)
Mr. Kirsch. I decline to answer that question on the grounds that
I might be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you at the present time under Communist
discipline?
Mr. Kirsch. Mr. Sourwine, is this a witch hunt?
Mr. SoDRWiNE. Questions are being asked by the subcommittee, Mr.
Kirsch.
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that question on my con-
stitutional grounds not to be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Sourwine. I'll tell you why the committee asked this question.
It appears to counsel that the answers you have given here are
wholly compatible with the theory that you are, in fact, a Communist
plantin the Socialist Workers' Party. I asked the question to deter-
mine whether this is true. If it is not true, I hope you will deny it.
Mr. Faulkner. Is there a question ?
Was that a statement or a question ?
Mr. Sourwine. It is intended to be a question.
Are you in fact a member of tlie Communist Party, U.S.A., and a
Communist plant in the Socialist Workers Party ?
(Witness consults with counsel, 3 seconds.)
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds
that you are forcing me to be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Sourwine, you don't really mean those things, do you ?
Mr. Sourwine. This question was asked in good faith with the
hope of getting information for the committee.
Senator Keating. You can easily negate it by denying it if it is not
a fact, Mr. Kirsch.
]Mr. SouTiwiNE. I have no more questions, Mr. Chairman, if you
want to let the witness read his statement at this time.
Senator Dodd. We have a rule, don't we, about statements?
INIr. Sourwine. Statements are supposed to be submitted 24 hours in
advance.
Senator Dodd. The witness can read his statement and we shall
Senator Keating. How long is the statement?
lilr. Kirsch. In the light of the questioning to date
Senator Dodd. I said how long is your statement?
Mr. Kirsch. That statement is 10 minutes.
Senator Dodd. That is several typewritten pages?
Mr. Kirsch. Yes.
Senator Dodd. Well, I guess we can hear it, and if it is objection-
able under committee rules, then we can order it stricken.
Mr. Kirsch. In view of the questions that were asked I won't read
the statement at this time.
Senator Dodd. You don't want to make any statement ?
64139— 61— iPt. 4-
334 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. KiRSCH. That's right. May I ask, will there be a public hear-
ing?
Senator Dodd. We'll let you know about that.
Mr. KiRScii. Well, do I wait or do I go back home ?
Senator Dodd. We'll let you know about that in time.
Mr. SouRwiNE. We want the witness held under the subpena just
for the time being.
We'll be able to let you know later this afternoon, Mr. Kirsch.
Mr. Kirsch. Thank you.
Senator Dodd. Call your next witness.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Tussey.
Senator Dodd. Kaise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give
before this committee will be the trutli, the whole truth and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. TussEY. I affirm it.
TESTIMONY OF RICHAED B. TTJSSEY
Senator Dodd. Give your name and address, please.
Mr. TussEY. Richard B. Tussey, 3054 Euclid Heights Boulevard,
Cleveland, Ohio.
Senator Keating. The witness said he affirmed.
Senator Dodd. Yes, I heard.
Senator Keating. You do not take an oath ?
Mr. TussEY. I affirmed it.
Senator Keating. You have some conscientious objections to tak-
ing an oath.
Mr. TussEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Keating. Are they of a religious character ?
Mr. TussEY. I think they are, yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. That address is in Cleveland Heights ?
Mr. Tussey. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE, When and where were you born, sir?
I withdraw that question.
Are you accompanied by counsel?
Mr. TussEY. Yes, I am.
Senator Dodd. Before you get into that. Counsel, I wonder just
what the witness meant in answer to Senator Keating's question.
Senator Keating. Yes, I think we should be careful to find that
out fully.
Senator Dodd. What precisely is your objection to taking an oatli?
(The witness consults with his counsel.)
Mr. Tussey. It is my religious belief, and I assert my right not
to get into that.
Mr. Sourwine. You are a member of a religious orcjanization whose
disciphne precludes its members from taking an oath ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the same privilege of the first, not to get into
my beliefs.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Chairman, we have an interesting situation
here, as raised by Senator Keating's question.
The witness certainly has a right to affirm rather than take the
oatli if he is a member
Senator Dodd. Wait a minute.
PAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 335
Mr. "Witness, we can't have you talking with your attorney when
committee counsel is addressing the committee, when we are trying
to conduct an orderly proceeding here.
If you want to talk to your lawyer, say so. You can have all the
time you want.
Senator Keating. We should have the lawyer's name on the record.
Mr. Day. My name is Jack G. Day, 1748 Standard Building, Cleve-
land, Ohio.
I am sorry, sir, I had given it outside. I thought that did it.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The witness certainly has the right to decline to
take an oath and to affirm it instead, if he is a member of a religious
organization which, in its discipline, requires this of its members, or
which has, as a part of its tenet, the belief that its members should
not take an oath. But if this is to be the basis for the witness' choice
to affirm instead of to swear, I think he should state to the committee
that this is a fact.
I am not so clear, I'll tell the Chairman, whether the witness should
be required or could be required to name the particular faith, but I
think the fact that he does belong to an organization which so holds
is a necessary foundation for his election to affirm rather than to swear.
Mr. TussEY. May I consult ?
Senator Dodd. Yes, go ahead.
(Witness consults with counsel.)
Mr. TussEY. I feel you have no right to get into the basis of my
religious beliefs.
Mr. SouRwiNE. May I ask this question? Do you offer your affirm-
ance in place of the oath and without any intention to avoid the obliga-
tion that you are here taking to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth?
(Witness consults with counsel.)
Mr. TussEY. I certainly do intend it.
Mr. SouRWiNE. When and where were you born ?
Senator Keating. Well, now, you say, "I certainly do intend it."
Do you understand that by your affirmation, you are committed in
the same way as if you had taken an oath to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth ?
Mr. TussEY. Yes, I understand.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, when and where were you born ?
(Witness consults with counsel.)
Mr. TussEY. Pittsburgh, Pa.
Mr. SouRwiNE. And when ?
Mr. TussEY. November 7, 1918.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you married, sir ?
Mr. TussEY. Yes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. To the former Jean Yadrofsky, Y-a-d-r-o-f-s-k-y ?
(Witness consults with counsel, 10 seconds.)
Mr. TussEY. I think I'll have to assert my privilege of self-incrim-
ination, the fifth amendment of the Constitution.
Senator Dodd. You mean it would incriminate you to tell whom
you're married to ?
Mr, TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment of the United States on grounds that the answer
might tend to incruninate me.
336 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you the same Eichard Tussey who was for-
merly national representative of the Mechanics Educational Society
of America, often known as MESA, of the AFL-CIO ?
(Witness consults with counsel, 5 seconds.)
Senator Dodd. INIr. Witness, if you want to confer with your lawyer,
please state so and we can have some order here.
Mr. TussEY. I'm sorry, sir. I thought that the minute he was
through I had the right to confer. I assert my privilege against
self-incrimination under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitu-
tion, on the grounds that the answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. SouR\viNE. Are you presently an official of local No. 72 of
MESA in Cleveland, Ohio?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Senator Keating. Is this organization affiliated with the AFL-
CIO, counsel ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. IMESA is so affiliated, sir.
Senator Keating. You mean, Mr. Witness, that if you gave a truth-
ful answer to the question whetlier you were connected with a union
affiliated with the AFL-CIO, that that might tend to incriminate
you?
Mr. TussEY. Just a moment.
(Witness consults with counsel, 7 seconds.)
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution, on the grounds that the
answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. SouKWiNE. Mr. Chairman, it is conceivable that the witness
has been properly claiming his privilege. It has been reported to
this committee that this witness was separated from his union ac-
tivities because of his activities with the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee, specifically with his use of union headquarters for the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee work.
Senator Keating. The information that you have is that he is not
now a meml)er?
Mr. SoiT^wiNE. That is correct.
Senator Keating. I see. I could not quite see how it could in-
criminate anybody.
In fairness also to the AFL-CIO, I can't see how it would incrim-
inate anybody to hold a union office.
Mr. SouRwiNE. There is a difference between this witness and
others, where you could not conceive of a possible chain which might
lead to any incrimination.
Mr. Tussey, were you one of the organizers of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee?
Senator Dodd. Mr. Witness, will you answer and pay attention so
that we can conduct our hearing ?
Mr. TussEY. Just a moment.
(Witness consults with counsel.)
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Isn't it true, Mr. Tussey, that you helped organize
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in Cleveland ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 337
Mr. SouKwiNE. Isn't it true that you are presently a member of
the national committee of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privileo:e against self-incrimination under
the first amendment of the United States Constitution on the grounds
that the answer might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, will you tell us the address of the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee, Cleveland chapter ?
(Witness consults with counsel.)
Mr. Day. Do you want us to state it for the record each time ?
Senator Dodd. If the witness will say something so that we will
have some order here.
Mr. Day. For the record, each time you consult with me indicate
that you are doing it.
(Witness consults with counsel, 10 seconds.)
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, will you tell us the affiliation, if any,
of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee with the Institute for Improve-
ment of Inter-American Relations?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination mider
the fifth.
Mr. SouRWTNE. Isn't it a fact that you are presently chairman
of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in Cleveland, Ohio?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege under the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. It has been stated by Richard Gibson, acting execu-
tive secretary of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, that the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee has a strong local chapter in Cleveland. Is
this true?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of self-incrimination under the
fifth.
Mr. SouRWTNE. Mr. Tussey, who maintains the records of the Cleve-
land chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination imder
the fifth amendment of the United States Constitution.
JSIr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, have you ever visited Cuba?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the Hfth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, it might well be that on another
occasion, as the Supreme Court has pointed out, there is always a
possibility that this witness, while recalcitrant today, might testify,
but it does not appear that we are going to get very much informa-
tion out of the witness today in regard to the questions to which the
committee wants answers, or can the witness be held over for a session
tomorrow ?
Senator Dodd. There is one question I would like to ask.
Mr. Witness, are you a member of the Communist Party of the
U.S.A.?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the fifth.
Senator Dodd. You what ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment, that
my answer might tend to incriminate me.
Senator Dodd. Do you have any questions, Senator Keating ?
(Senator Keating shakes head negatively.)
338 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Dodd. I think that there is no need at this hour to go further
with the questioning.
Mr. Witness, you will remain under subpena. We shall have to tell
you a little later. By that, I mean don't leave the premises. We'll
want you back.
Mr. Day. Mr. Chairman, I represent three. May I know who the
next one is, so that I may get out or stay here ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. I see no objection to calling this man's clients.
Who are your clients, sir ?
Mr. Day. Mrs. Tussey and Mr. Levey.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Call Mrs. Tussey.
Senator Dodd. Will you raise your right hand ?
Stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the
testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee is the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mrs. Tussey. I do.
TESTIMONY OP JEAN TTJSSEY
Senator Dodd. Give your full name and address, please.
Mrs. Tussey. Jean Tussey, 3056 Eviclid Heights, Cleveland Heights,
Ohio.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Wlien and where were you born, Mrs. Tussey ?
Mr. Day. Excuse me, sir. May I tell the witness what the rule is?
The rule is, Mrs. Tussey, before you consult with counsel, you should
indicate for the record before you give any answer on which you
wish to consult with counsel that you are doing so.
Senator Dodd. Let me explain why. There is no objection whatever
to your consulting with your lawyer. We only ask that we have some
order here. If you want to talk to your lawyer just say so, and we
shall wait for you to talk to him.
Mr. SouRwiNE. We have had instances where the witness, or where
counsel was constantly whispering to the witness and the witness
couldn't hear tlie questions.
Mrs. Tussey. May I consult with my counsel ?
Senator Dodd. You don't have to ask for permission. Just tell
us when you're doing it.
Mrs. Tussey. The question was?
Mr. SouRwiNE. When and where were you bom ?
Mrs. Tussey. March 9, 1918, at Lambertville, N.J.
May I ask a question before proceeding ? I would like to know why
I am here.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes.
Mrs. Tussey. And what purpose my being here serves for the com-
mittee?
Mr. Sourwine. The committee is under mandate from the Senate
to conduct a continuing investigation of the activities of subversive
organizations, including the Communist Party, including all of the
party's fronts, including infiltrated organizations, including Commu-
nist propaganda — the whole area — for the purpose of determining
from time to time and currently what legislation, if any, can be rec-
ommended to meet the various facets of the Communist threat to the
security of the United States.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COAIMITTEE 339
The committee has a great deal of information that the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee is infiltrated by Communists, is in some instances
under Communist control; that the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
was kicked oil", so to speak, with a substantial amount of money pro-
vided by tiie Connnunist govermnent of Cuba.
The committee has hiformation that the Fair Play for Cuba
Connnittee is serving as a basis for recruitment of youth into the
Conununist Party. The connnittee has information that you have
been active in the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in the Cleveland
area, and, therefore, you are presumed to have information respect-
ing this connnittee which will be helpful to the committee if we can
secure it from you.
This is wliy you have been called.
Mrs. TussEY. Thank you.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What was your maiden name, Mrs. Tussey?
Mrs. TussEY. I would like to refer to my attorney.
( Witness consults with counsel, 20 seconds. )
Mrs. TussEY. I wish to assert the privilege against self-incrimina-
tion under the fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United
States.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Weren't you born Jean Yadrofsky, Y-a-d-r-o-f-
s-k-y?
]\Irs. TussEY. I wish to assert the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. When and where were you married ?
Mrs. TussEY. I wish to assert my privilege under the fifth amend-
ment of the Constitution against self-incrimination.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you presently the wife of Richard Benjamin
Tussey ?
Mrs. TussEY. May I take a moment ?
(Witness consults with counsel for 10 seconds.)
Mrs. Tussey. I wish to assert my privilege under the fifth amend-
ment.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you presently the wife of Richard Tussey ?
(Witness consults with counsel, 5 seconds.)
Mrs. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment
against self-incrimination.
Mr. Sourwine. You are a married woman, are you not, Mrs. Tussey ?
Mrs. Tussey. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine. You gave us the name as Mrs. Tussey. That means
you have a husband ?
Mrs. Tussey. Did I give my name as Mrs. Tussey ?
Mr. Sourwine. Didn't you ?
Mrs. Tussey. 1 thought I gave my name as Jean Tussey.
Mr. Sourwine. You are a married woman ?
Mrs. Tussey. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine. That means you have a husband, do you not?
Mrs. Tussey. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine. What is your husband's name ?
(Witness consults with counsel, 10 seconds.)
Mrs. Tussey. I wish to assert the privilege of the fifth amendment
against self-incrimination.
Mr. Sourwine. You are a gi-aduate of the New Jersey College for
Women ?
(Witness consults with counsel, 20 seconds.)
340 FAIR PLAT FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mrs. TussET. Yes, I am a graduate of the New Jersey College for
Women.
JNIr. SouRWiNE. You majored in journalism?
Mrs. TussET. That is correct.
Mr. Sour WINE. What is your present employment ?
Mrs. TussEY. I must ask for permission from him.
(Witness consults with counsel, 20 seconds.)
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, as a matter of fact, you are a proofreader for
the Cleveland Plain Dealer, aren't you ?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege.
Senator Keating. You think it might incriminate you to be identi-
fied with the Cleveland Plain Dealer?
Senator Dodd. That will be interesting reading in the record.
(Witness consults with counsel, 5 seconds.)
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. When did you graduate from the New Jersey Col-
lege for Women ?
Mrs. TussEY. I'm trying to recall. I believe it was 1938.
Mr. SoTTRwiNE. Before your present employment, were you em-
ployed by W. S. Gilskey Co., of 1138 West 9th Street?
INIrs. TussEY. I must take a moment.
(Witness consults with counsel, 10 seconds.)
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth amendment of
the Constitution.
]Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you also formerly employed by Lezus Hiles
Co., Chester Avenue and East 61st Street ?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SoTTRWiNE. Are you presently connected with the Cleveland
chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth amendment of
the Constitution.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Wliat part did you play in October 1960, and sub-
sequently, in persuading individuals to join the tour to Cnba under
the auspices of the Cleveland chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert my privileges under the fifth amendment of
the U.S. Constitution.
Senator Dodd. I think we might as well
Mr. SouRwiNE. I would agree with the chairman. It appears
that today we are not going to got useful answers from the Avitness.
There was always hope, as the Supreme Court pointed out, that an-
other day she may choose to answer.
Senator Dodd. Mrs. Tussey, are you a member of the Communist
Party U.S.A.?
JNIrs. Tussey. T assert my privilege.
Senator Dodd. AVe are going to excuse you now. You are still
under subpena. We ask you to wait outside.
Mr. SouRWTNE. Mr. Levey is your next witness ?
Mr. Day. Yes.
Mv. SouRAviNE. Bring ]\Ir. Levey in.
Senator Dodd. Raise your right hand.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 341
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony yon will give before this
snbconimitteo will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
t I'uth, so help you, God ?
Mr. Levey. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MAX LAWEENCE LEVEY
Mr. SouRwiNE. Your counsel is Mr. Day ?
Mr. Levey. That is correct.
Mr. SouRWiNE. What is your full name ?
Mr. Levey. Max Lawrence Levey.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that L-a-w-r-e-n-c-e ?
Mr. Levey. L-a-w-r-e-n-c-e, yes.
Mr. SouRWiNE. And your address ?
Mr. Levey. It is a dilferent address than I believe the committee has.
It is 1845 Cliffview, C-1-i-f-f-v-i-e-w — all one word — Road, Cleveland
12.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You formerly resided at 2537 Nobel Road, Cleve-
land Heights?
Mr. Levey. Yes.
Mr. SoumviNE. You moved to 3^our present address recently?
Mr. Levey. Something like 2 or 8 months ago.
Mr. SouRwiNE. When and where were you born, Mr. Levey ?
Mr. Levey. In Cleveland, Ohio, July 1, 1927.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You are then an American citizen by birth?
Mr. Levey. I am, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you married ?
Mr. Levey. Single.
Mr. Sourwine. Have you ever been married?
Mr. Levey. No, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Where are you employed ?
jMr. Levey. I am not presently employed.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you the same ^lax Levey formerly employed by
the Yokes Ohio Corp. at 214 Scranton?
Mr. Levey. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine, You were employed there as a salesman ?
Mr. Levey. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine. Is that your business or profession, that of a sales-
man ?
Mr. Le\t:y. May I consult my counsel ?
(Consults counsel 5 seconds.)
ISIr. Levey. Would you repeat the previous question ?
Mr. Sourwine. The last question was if your business or profession
is that of salesman ?
Mr. Levey. Yes, I am a salesman. I lost my job upon receiving the
subpena from the committee.
Mr. Sourwine. You mean you were discharged because you were
subpenaed by this committee?
Mr. Levey. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Were you told that this was the reason ?
(Consults counsel.)
Mr. Sourwine. "V\^o told you this ?
Mr. Levey. My employers.
342 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr, SouRwiNE. Who specifically ?
(Consults counsel 25 sceconds.)
Mr. Levey. Sir, my employer mentioned to me that if their name
was mentioned in the testimony, that I would be — because they have
heard of their name being mentioned in relation to the committee was
the reason for my dismissal.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Let's get two things clear, but first, who specifically
told you this ?
Mr. Levey. The president of the firm, Mr. A. V. Simon, S-i-m-o-n.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, do you consider that you are presently not
employed by that company ?
Mr. Le\t:y. I do, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you consider that you were employed by that
company up until the moment when the name of that company was
brought into this hearing record?
Mr. Levey. Until — oh, no.
Mr. Sourwine. You were discharged upon receipt of the subpena,
then, after word of it reached your employer?
Mr. Levey. I volunteered the information to my employer.
Mr. SouRwiiSrE. That you had been subpenaed ?
Mr, Levey. That is correct.
Mr. SouRwiNE, And he then discharged you ?
Mr. Levey. That is correct-
Mr. SouRwiNE. Because of fear that his name would be brought into
this hearing?
Mr. Levey. That is correct.
Senator Dodd. What kind of a business is this ?
Mr. Levey. The firm are general contractors and steel fabricators.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Levey, there is no approbrium connected with
being subpenaed for this committee. I think the committee might be
willing to go to bat for you for whatever it might be worth with any
employer that would discharge a witness because he was subpenaed by
this subcommittee. A witness is called by the subcommittee because
the committee has reason to believe that the witness has information
that will be helpful to the committee in its investigations. Cabinet
officers, the head of the FBI, the assistant head of the CIA — many
people of note and repute, spotless and unsmirched reputations have
appeared before this committe as witnesses. The fact that a man is
called here does not in and of itself cari-y any onus at all.
You did not resign, you were discharged?
Mr. Levey. That is correct, sir.
Mr, SouRwiNE. And you were told that you were being discharged
because you had been subpenaed to appear before this subcommittee, is
that right?
(Consults counsel 18 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. Mr. Counsel
Mr. Sourwine. I see your counsel is pulling at your sleeve.
Mr. Day. May I say that the way the thing is handled, is that you
ask permission or indicate that you want to talk to your counsel.
Mr. Sourwine. I will say that we don't mean to be restrictive on
you, but the usual rule is that consultation with counsel is the witness'
prerogative. Counsel should not grab his sleeve or try to indicate
what he should or should not say.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 343
Senator Dodd. You do not have to ask permission. I have said
this several times. All you have to do is tell us when you want to talk
to counsel and this is so that we may maintain order in the conduct
of this hearing and that is the only reason.
Mr. Levey. May I consult with my counsel ?
Senator Dodd. Yes, don't ask me if you may. You can say that
you want to.
(Witness consults with counsel 10 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. 1 would like to make it clear, sir, that my employer did
not fire me exactly upon receipt of the subpena or my making my em-
ployer aware of the receipt of the subpena, that my employer, upon
further consultation, decided that his reputation and the reputation of
the company was endangered by my appearance here and by the possi-
ble publicity therein.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you trying to tell us, or perhaps implying, or
intending to convey to us the idea that because of this subpena, your
emplo3^er learned of your connection with the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee and didn't want to be associated with publicity in that
connection ?
Mr. Levey. The publicity that my employer feared was the simple
publicity that someone with any type of questionable character would
be a part of their organization, and the chances that are taken therein
in relations with customers and what have you.
Mr. Sourwine. That was not my question. I am trying to find out
if it is your understanding that your employer felt that the mere fact
of your having been asked to appear here and testify implied that
you were of a questionable character or that there was some danger
to his organization of being connected with the testimony ?
Mr. Le\^y. I am really afraid, sir, that is something only my
employer would know.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you know if he had learned of your connection
with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee before you had been dis-
charged ?
Mr. Levey. I am going to consult my counsel on that.
(Consults counsel 20 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. May I ask for the question to be repeated? I have a
little question on it.
Mr. Sourwine. I asked whether you knew if your employer had
learned of your connection with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
before he discharged you ?
Mr. Levey. May I say this, that I have no connection with the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee. I did mention any activities that I had
to my employer and he was aware of my activities.
Mr. Sourwine. Well, what activities ?
Mr, Levey. That I was active with the Committee for a Sane Nu-
clear Policy.
Mr. Sourwine. And what else ?
Mr. Levey. That I was active with the Americans for Democratic
Action.
Mr. Sourwine. And what else.
Mr. Le\t:y. That is the extent of it, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. And on the basis of those two associations, your
employer fired you ? That is your understanding ?
344 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. Levet. To the best of, my understanding, my employer fired me
because of the possibility of adverse effect on his business through my
being called before a congressional committee.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you ever been connected with the American
Forum of Socialist Education ?
Mr. Levey. Connected with. I had better consult counsel.
(Consults counsel 40 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. I have no formal connections with the aforementioned
committee.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you attend a meeting of the American Forum
of Socialist Education at the YMCA in Cleveland on October 15,
1957?
Mr. Levey. I am going to consult counsel.
(Consults counsel 10 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. I did sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Who called that meeting?
Mr. Le\^y. May I add this, sir, that I wasn't aware of any name
to the organization at that point.
Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you come to go to this meeting?
Mr. Levey. I was invited to attend.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember who invited you?
Mr. Levey. I am going to consult counsel.
(Consults counsel 1 minute, 12 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. I would like to assert my privilege against self-
incrimination under the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Levey, do you remember the occasion when
six individuals went on trial for offenses connected with the so-
called non-Communist affidavits under the Taft-Hartley law?
Mr. Levey. Am I aware of what ?
Mr. SouRwiXE. Do you remember the occasion when six individuals
went on trial for offenses connected with the so-called non-Communist
affidavits under the Taft-Hartley law?
Mr. Levey. I will consult counsel.
(Consults counsel 8 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. I was aware, sir, that there was a trial of that nature.
Mr. Sourwine. Did you attend that trial as an observer?
Mr. Levey. I am going to consult counsel.
(Consults counsel 35 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. I recollect, sir, that I did attend 1 day for a very
short period when I was in the downtown area.
Mr. Sourwine. Did you attend as an observer for any organiza-
tion or individual ?
Mr. Levey. I did not, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you connected in any way w^ith the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Levey. I am not, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Or its chapter in Cleveland?
Mr. Levey. I am not, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Plave you attended any meetings of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Levey. I am going to consult my counsel.
(Consults counsel 20 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 345
Senator ICeating. When you said you were not connected, did you
mean that you are not an officer of that organization ?
Mr. Levey. No, sir, I meant I was not comiected in any way with
the committee.
Senator Keating. Well, you are connected in some way if you at-
tend a meeting. Can't you tell us whether you did, in fact, attend that
meeting ?
Mr. LE^^EY. I must consult counsel.
(Consults counsel 10 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. I deny that mere attendance entails connection. How-
ever, I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Souravine. Mr. Levey, were you a member of the Oliio Com-
mittee To Secure Justice in the Kosenberg Case?
Mr. Levey. I was not, sir.
Senator Keating. Were you ever connected with the Kosenberg
Committee?
Mr. Levey. I was not, sir.
Senator Keating. Were you ever connected with the American
Committee for the Protection of the Foreign Born ?
Mr. Lea-ey. I was not, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you on March 8, 1952, attend a Kosenberg de-
fense meeting in the Sterling Hotel in Cleveland, Ohio, under the
sponsorship of the American Committee for the Protection of the
Foreign Born ?
Mr. Levey. I must consult counsel.
(Consults counsel 20 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Levey, were you ever connected with the Excel,
E-x-c-e-1, Movie Products ?
Mr. Levey. Would you repeat that name, sir ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Excel Movie Products.
Mr. Levey. Excel Movie Products.
I am going to consult counsel.
(Consults counsel 7 seconds.)
Mr. Le\^y. I am sorry, sir, I have never heard of the organization.
Mr. SouR\VTNE. You are not the Max Levey who was at one time
head of the Excel Movie Products, a firm manufacturing toys and
home movie projectors and cartoon films and distributing film?
Mr. Levey. No, sir, I am not that Max Levey.
Senator Dodd. Are you connected with any company engaged in
this line of activity ?
Mr. Levey. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, I have no more questions of this
witness. I will say for the record and for the benefit of witness and
counsel that there is a possibility of a mistake of identity. There is a
Max Levey who was so connected.
There is a Max Levey who was connected with the American Society
for the Protection for the Foreign Born and with the Committee To
Secure Justice in the Kosenberg case. The purpose of these questions
was not to establish that you were he, but to establish whether you
were this man.
346 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
I have no more questions of this witness at this time, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Keating. I would feel that in fairness, this committee
should communicate with his employer, were it not for the fact — and
there could be a case of mistaken identity — were it not for the fact
that the witness has claimed his privilege and has asserted that some
answers might tend to incriminate him as to some of these affairs. I
can't understand that, if he simply attended a meeting or two of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee. A good many well-meaning patri-
otic citizens were sucked in on that in the beginning. If that is the
case for this witness, I think it would be regrettable to have his eco-
nomic status impaired by being called before this committee.
I wonder if, on reflection, he wants to insist on continuing his claim
of privilege.
Mr. Levey. I must consult counsel and I thank the gentleman for
the remarks.
(Consults counsel 1 minute, 12 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. May I say this to the committee, very briefly, that I am
at any time willing to testify concerning myself on any question,
attendance of meetings included, but that for the reasons of self-in-
crimination, I would not want to testify about anyone else's involve-
ment, remote or otherwise, at such meetings.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, there is a slight non sequitur here in
that it would be very difficult to incriminate a man on such testimony,
but I wouldn't want to press it under the circumstances.
Senator Keating. Do you know Mr. Tussey ?
Mr. Levey. I want to consult my lawyer.
(Consults 10 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment.
Senator Dodd. Do you know Mrs. Tussey ?
Mr. Levey. Sir, I would assert the same privilege.
Senator Keating. Are you a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Levey. I am not a member of the Communist Party.
Senator Keating. Have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Levey. I have never been a member of the Communist Party.^
Senator Keating. Have you ever been a member of a Communist
front organization, to your knowledge ?
Mr. Levey. I must consult with my attorney.
(Consults counsel 25 seconds.)
Mr. Levey. To my knowledge, I have never been a member of any
Communist front organization.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Chairman, I have no more questions of this
witness today.
Senator Dodd. All right, I think, Mr. Levey, that we will want you
back in the morning.
Mr. Sourwine. May this be the same order on the other witnesses,
Mr, Chairman?
Senator Dodd. Yes, what time.
(Discussion off the record.)
Senator Dodd. Let's make it 11. The best we can tell now, we
think that is the time.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COAIMITTEE 347
As a matter of fact, why don't we do this? WHiy don't we sug-
gest that Mr. Levey come by at, say, 10, and be available? Will
that be acceptable to you?
Senator Keating. Yes, sure.
Senator Dodd. Because there might be something else that will
come up overnight.
Mr. Day. ]\Iay I inquire, Mr. Chairman, whether you will want
the other two at 10 or 11 ?
Senator Dodd. What would you say, Mr. Sourwine ?
Mr. Sourwine. I don't want to do anything to inconvenience either
you or Senator Keating. I think we have about 3 hours of testimony
tomorrow morning. You could go over to another hearing and leave
this hearing to continue. Senator Keating can't be there until 11.
Senator Keating. I might make it by 10 :30. This hearing is quite
important, the one I have at 10.
(Discussion off the record.)
Senator Dodd. I thmk we had better leave it that you be here at 10
and the other witnesses, also.
Mr. Sourwine. Ten o'clock.
Mr. Day. For all three, sir?
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine. That will be in this room out here, and the same
instructions to the first witness we had today, who is waiting out there,
Mr. Kirsch.
We have one more witness this afternoon.
Senator Dodd. Raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give before
this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Tekla. I do affirm.
TESTIMONY OF TAD TEKLA
Senator Dodd. Give your name and address, please.
Mr. Tekla. Tad Tekla.
Mr. Sourwine. And your address, Mr. Tekla ?
Mr. Tekla. 1401 Mayfair, Cleveland, Ohio.
Senator Keating. Mr. Chairman, the witness said he affirmed
rather that swear.
You have some religious reason for not taking an oath, do you ?
Mr. Tekla. Senator Keating, I met you at the CPS camp at Big
Flats, N. Y., in 1946. I was there because I am a pacifist.
Senator Keating. You are a pacifist ?
Mr, Tekla. That is right.
Senator Iveating. And under the principles of your organization,
you are opposed to taking an oath, is that correct ?
Mr. Tekla. That is right. We don't swear in polite society. We
affirm.
Senator Ideating. Pacifists affirm rather than swearing ?
Mr. Tekla. That is right.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tekla, when and where were you born ?
Mr. Tekla. Cleveland, Ohio, June 1913.
348 FAIR PLAT FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. Wliat other names have you used or been known by ?
Mr. Tekla. My official name is Ladislaus Dolista, D-o-l-i-s-t-a. Tad
Tekla is my pseudonym because I do some writing.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Tekla, what connection, if any, have you had
with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in the Cleveland area ?
Mr. Tekla. I kiiew you would ask that question. I attended two
meetings of the committee, one at which a William Worthy, a colored
man, and the other at which my friend, David Dellinger, a pacifist,
spoke.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you a member of the Cleveland chapter of the
Fair Play For Cuba Committee?
Mr. Tekla. I am not.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You had no part in forming this chapter ?
Mr. Tekla. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Jean Tussey ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know of her connection with the Cleveland
chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Tekla. I know only that she is the wife of the former chairman
of the Cleveland Fair Play Committee.
Mr. SouRWiNE. That is Richard Tussey ?
Mr. Tekla. That is right. I understand he is no longer the chair-
man.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Who succeeded him ?
Mr. TEKL.V. That I don't know.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you the same Tekla Vv'ho was circulation man-
ager of Fight, a magazine issued by the American League Against
War and Fascism ?
Mr. Tekla. I will modify that to say I was local circulation man-
ager in 1935.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you still connected with the American League
Against War and Fascism ?
Mr. Tekla. I do believe the organization is defunct. I have not
been connected for many, many moons.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know that organization had been cited by
the Attorney General as a subversive organization ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, subsequently.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you aware of the cooperation between members
of the Communist Party and members of the Socialist Party in pro-
moting the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Tekla. Would you mind repeating that?
Mr. SouRWiNE. I am asking you if j^ou are aware of the coopera-
tion between members of the Communist Party and members of the
Socialist Party in promoting the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Tekla. No, sir.
Senator Dodd. Socialist Workers Party?
Senator Keating. Isn't that called the Socialist Workers Party?
Mr. Tekla. That is why I answered no. If you had said Socialist
Workers Party, I would have said yes.
Mr. Sourwine. You are aware of that?
Mr. Tekla. Socialist Workers Party, yes.
• Mr. Sourwine. How do you account for that cooperation?
Mr. Tekla. I am in no position to answer that. You will have to
ask them.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 349
Senator Iveating. Let me intemipt. You are not a member of the
Communist Party ?
]\Ir. Tekla. I am not and have never been a member of the Com-
munist Party.
Senator Iveating. And you are not a member of the Socialist
Workers Party ?
Mr. Tekla. I am not and never have been a member of the Socialist
Workers Party.
Senator Keating. Do you know Herman Kirsch, ISIr. Tekla ?
Mr. Tekla. I know Herman Kirsch by name. I don't know him
more than having been introduced to him, if I ever was introduced
to him.
Senator Iveating. You know Richard and Jean Tussey, of course ?
Mr. Tekla. I know them quite well.
Senator Keating. Do you know Max Levey ?
Mr. Tekla. I knew you would ask that question and I have had
some cogitation on that. I think I met Max Levey first when we both
attended a hot jazz class at Cleveland College. I am not sure that I
met him then. I know that I was introduced to him about 2 years ago.
Outside of that, I have had nothing to do with him. He is a friend of
a mutual friend.
Senator Kjeating. Do you know Sam Pollock ?
Mr. Tekla. I have met Sam Pollock. I don't know him very well.
Senator Keating. Did you ever attend a closed meeting with Sam
Pollock, Richard Tussey, and Max Levey ?
Mr. Tekla. I attended what I would consider an open meeting with
those gentlemen.
Senator Keating. Specifically, did you attend a meeting at the Nash
Room of the YMCA m Cleveland, Ohio ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes.
Senator Keating. On April 8, 1957 ?
Mr. Tekla. That is the meeting.
Senator Keating. At which these three men were present ?
Mr. Tekla. That is right.
Senator Keating. Wliat was the purpose of that meeting ?
Mr. Tekla. We had hoped to set up a Cleveland affiliate of a national
organization called the American Forum. This never materialized.
Senator Keating. Was there anyone else at that meeting ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, my friend was there.
Senator Keating. Who was that ?
Mr. Tekla. Ed Spira, S-p-i-r-a.
Senator Keating. And anyone else ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, Sergeant Ungvary of the Cleveland subversive
squad.
Senator Keating. How does he spell his name ?
Mr. Tekla. U-n-g-v-a-r-y. And one assistant whose name escapes
me.
Senator Keating. And anyone else ?
Mr. Tekla. To the best of my knowledge, only a waitress.
Senator Keating. Just the seven people ?
Mr. Tekla. I thought there were about a half-dozen, yes, sir.
Senator Keating. Was he known to you at the time to be a member
of the Cleveland subversive squad ?
C4139— 61— pt. 4 3
350 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. Tekla. Oh, yes, Senator. He is well known for his subversive
activities.
Senator Keating. And was known at that time ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes.
Senator Dodd. You mean he is well known for his antisubversive
activities ?
Mr. Tekla. It is a matter of interpretation, sir.
Senator Dodd. It seems a matter of proper use of language.
Senator Keating. You didn't mean literally he was known for his
subversive activities ?
Mr. Tekla. That was his title. He was known as the he-ad of the
subversive squad and I referred to him by that title.
Senator Keating. Is it called subversive or antisubversive?
Mr. Tekla. I think it is subversive.
Senator Dodd. It might be, like the pickpocket squad or burglar
squad. But it doesn't mean the policeman is a pickpocket or a
burglar.
Mr. Sourwine. Have you been active in connection with attempts
to unite the Independent Socialist League with the Socialist Party?
Mr. Tekla. I think I had better put several thmgs on record. I
was a member of the Socialist Party and a member of its national
executive committee. In the period from 1936 to 1958, several times,
the question of closer liaison between these two groups arose. As a
member of the national executive committee, naturally it came under
discussion and I was present at such meetings.
When you say I was active, I was active in discussing these things.
Under some questions of cooperation, I was on one side of the fence,
in others, on the other. When the Independent Socialist League
actually affiliated with the Socialist Party, I promptly resigned my
membership.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you know Richard Tussey, Max Levey, and
Sam Pollock as members of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Tekla. I know only Tussey as a member of that committee. I
am not acquainted with the general membership.
Mr. SouR^viNE. Are you the same Tekla who was recording secre-
tary of the Third American Youth Congress in 1936 ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you aware that the American Youth Congress
was cited as subversive by Attorney General Tom Clark?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, much later.
Mr. Sourwine. I believe you have already made reference to the
fact that you were at Camp 46, Big Flats, N. Y. ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, sir, I served 3i/^ years.
Mr. Sourwine. Were you connected with the group who went on
strike ?
Mr. Tekla. I went on strike. I fasted for 3 days, if you can call
that a strike.
Mr. Sourwine. Were you one of the six ultimately convicted in con-
nection with that strike ?
Mr. Tekla. No, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Wlio was the ringleader of that strike ?
Mr. Tekla. To the best of my knowledge, I don't rightly recall, if
there were any.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 351
Senator Keating. Did you say you saw me up there ?
Mr. Tekla. If I may refresh your memory, you visited with our
director, who was named Wynn Osborne, avIio came from New
Hampshire and he was a member of the State assembly there.
Senator Keating. Was I up at this camp, you mean ?
JMr. Tekla. Yes, actually physically there and he and you found a
good many interests in common. My considered judgment is that after
your visit, you kept in touch with him for some time. At least that
is the story I got from JMr. Osborne, who was a friend of mine.
Senator Keating. Who is Mr. Osborne?
Mr. Tekla. He was camp director and a member of the Stat«
Assembly of New Hampshire and that is why you seemed to get along
with him.
Senator Keating. What year was this?
Mr. Tekla. 1946.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tekla, were you at camp 52 ?
Senator Keating. Wait a minute. This is very interesting to me.
What time in 1046?
JMr. Tekla. I don't remember. It would have to be the first half
of the year, because I left (camp) 46 in July.
Senator Keating. For the first half of the year, I was in New
Delhi, India, so that would have been quite difficult, if it was 1946.
Mr. Tekla. I thought it was 1946, because that jibes Avith my rec-
ord. You have the figures there and I couldn't very well see you,
et cetera, if I weren't there at that time. But I could stand corrected.
Senator Keating. I think you had better.
Mr. Tekla. This is not germane to the record.
Senator Keating. No, it isn't, but it is very interesting to me. I
have no recollection of this or Mr. Osborne.
JMr. Tekla. May I refresh your memory about the trouble we had
tliere? The American Legion stirred up a hornet's nest and was
picketing in Elmira. We wanted to turn the bar action over to the
American Legion for housing for
Senator Keating. Where is it located ?
JMr. Tekla. Big Flats, N.Y., just outside of Elmira.
Senator Keating. Just outside of Elmira?
Mr. Tekla. About 14 miles outside.
Senator Keating. I think you are mistaken. I never heard of
Big Flats or Mr. Osborne or this camp until this minute, that I know
of. That is 14 or 15 years ago.
Mr. Tekla. All I wish to say is you understand my predicament
trying to answer questions about 1935. It is veiy hard to remember
what I had for supper last night.
Senator Keating. Well, I think you have answered the questions
so far in a veiy satisfactory and forthright way. It is quite a refresh-
ing contrast to what we have been hearing about people declining
to answer questions.
Mr. Tekla. Well, sir, I feel I have nothing to hide. I am not
guilty of any overt act.
Mr, Sourwine. And the fact that you were called here doesn't
indicate that anybody thinks you were, sir.
Mr. Tekla. You would be surprised that it does, sir.
352 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRWiNE. Were you at Camp 52, Powellville, Md., in May
of 1954?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouKwiNE. Do you recall a magazine called The Call ?
Mr. Tekla, Are you referring to the Socialist Call ?
Mr. SoTjRwiNE. I am trying to find out Avhat this magazine was.
Mr. Tekla. This is the name of the oiRcial Socialist Party organ
and it is still under that name.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The committee's information is that you sent May
Day greetings to that magazine in May of 1944?
Mr. Tekla. That was correct, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What is the significance of May Day greetings?
Mr. Tekla. This is nothing more than a fimd-raising operation.
Once a year they call on people who want to support this magazine —
in addition to their dues — to donate money.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. May Day is a special day in the Communist chro-
nology. There is no connection there, is there ?
Mr. Tekla. Well, this is the May Day that started in Chicago in
1886. The Communists subsequently tried to take it over, et cetera,
et cetera, but it is an American institution.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Tekla, were you ever a member of the American
League for Peace and Democracy ?
Mr. Tekla. No, sir; this organization more or less succeeded the
American League Against War and Fascism, but by that time I had
been out of the organization for many, many yeai'S.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. Did you ever visit the Soviet Union ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Wlien ?
Mr. Tekla. 1937, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. For what purpose ?
Mr. Tekla. General information, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You paid your own expenses ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You went as a tourist ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, sir; third class.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you speak Kussian ?
Mr. Tekla. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You went through the facilities of Intourist?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, sir; that is the only way you could go, as I under-
stood it.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you have any contact with Soviet officials over
there ?
Mr. Tekla. No, sir, I had names of Americans who had left America
to work over there and 1 contacted them. I figured they would talk
my language. I also speak Czech and I also got along very well with
the guides and was able to get a lot of information.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you ever contacted anybody at the Soviet
Embassy in the United States ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, sir, I contacted them with reference to publishing
a manuscript I had which had to do with my Russian trip.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Wlien was this ?
Mr. Tekla. A couple of years ago, to the best of my knowledge.
Mr. Sotjrwine. And when was your trip to Russia ?
Mr. Tekla. 1937.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 353
Mr. SouRWiNE. You made the trip in 1937 ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, sir.
JSIi-. SouKWiNE. And a couple of years ago you contacted the
Embassy about publishing something on that trip ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes. Over the years I finally got around to writing
up the notes I took. I had voluminous notes and wrote four books.
Mr. SouRwiNE, You are a writer ?
Mr. Tekla. Amateur writer ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. What is your business or profession ?
Mr. Tekla. I am a clerk.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Specifically, did you contact the Soviet Embassy
at Washington, D.C., on January 13, 1955 ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. What was that about ?
Mr. Tekla. About this manuscript.
Mr. Sourwine. It was more than a couple of years ago, then ?
Mr. Tekla. 1955, yes, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions of this
witness. I think he may, in part, as far as his knowledge of Mr.
Tussey goes, be of value to the committee.
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine. I should like to commend him on the record for
answering the questions forthrightly and not giving the committee
any trouble. I think he is obviously attempting to cooperate fully.
Mr. Tekla. I contacted Senator Young's office and asked them how
I could cooperate. They phoned Washington and found out it was
about Cuba and I hesitated because I said I don't know anything about
Cuba, I haven't been the least bit active in this committee. But I am
glad I can be of some value.
Mr. Sourwine. Thank you, sir.
Do you want this witness held for tomorrow ?
(Discussion off the record.)
Senator Dodd. Would you come back tomorrow at 10 o'clock?
Mr. Tekla. If necessary, I will have to be here.
Senator Dodd. Well, I think it would be helpful.
Mr. Tekla. Very well, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. That will be in the room outside, Mr. Tekla.
( Discussion ofi' the record.)
Senator Dodd. We are recessed until tomorrow morning at 10 a.m.
(Whereupon, at 4 :30 p.m., the subcommittee adjourned to reconvene
at 10 a.m. Tuesday, June 13, 1961.)
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA C03IMITTEE
TUESDAY, JUNE 13, 1961
U.S. Senate, Subcommittee To
Investigate the Administration of the
Internal Security Act
and Other Internal Security Laws,
of the Committee on the Judiciary,
Washington, D.G.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10 :30 a.m., in room 2300,
New Senate Office Building, Senator Thomas J. Dodd presiding.
Present : Senators Dodd and Olin D. Johnston,
Also present: J. G. Sourwine, chief counsel; Benjamin Mandel,
research director, and Frank Schroeder, chief investigator.
Senator Dodd. The subcommittee will be in order.
You have already been sworn, Mr. Tussey.
Mr. TussEY. I was affirmed.
Senator Dodd. Just sit down.
Go right ahead, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. All right, sir.
Senator Dodd. Am I right about that, that he was sworn yesterday ?
Mr. Sourwine. The witness was sworn in the sense that he affirmed
yesterday.
Senator Dodd. I know.
TESTIMONY OF RICHARD B. TUSSEY— Resumed
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tussey, you were told yesterday that the com-
mittee had information that you had been separated from your posi-
tion with MESA — that is your union position — because of your
acti^aties in connection with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee,
especially 3'our use of union headquarters for the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee work.
Are you willing to tell us this morning whether this is true ?
Mr. TussEY. I guess I will have to assert the privilege against self-
incrimination.
Senator Dodd. As I understand you, you say you are going to
assert your privilege, is that it ?
Mr. TussEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Dodd. You are talking about the fifth amendment to the
Constitution, I take it.
Mr. TussEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Dodd. I think that is the proper way to describe it.
355
Mr. Tussey. All right
356 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr, Tussey, you were asked yesterday if it was not
true that you had helped to organize the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee in Cleveland.
Will you answer that question this morning ?
Senator Dodd. You know, I think it would help this hearing — I
want this on the record — if you would confer with your lawyer.
When you asked why you were called, you were told why. If we
have to have these long delays after every question I think it would
be far better if we recessed and you took time to confer with your
counsel. You were here yesterday with your lawyer. You spent the
night in the city and it is now 10:30 in the morning. If you w^ant
time to talk to your lawyer you can have all the time you want. Just
tell us that you want it. But I would like to conduct this hearing in
a reasonable length of time and, if there are going to be long delays
and conferences between each question and each answer, this will
go on for days and days and days.
Mr. Tussey. First, I don't know what questions you are going to
ask. I don't know if I can confer.
Senator Dodd. There is a question pending right now for example,
and I would like to address your lawyer.
Do you want time to talk to your client, to confer with him ? You
can take all the time you want.
Mr. Day. Mr. Dodd, we have conferred. The conference to which
you now allude are conferences on each question.
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Mr. Day. Now I would suppose that as time goes on here that it
would not be necessary to confer on every question. But I do think if
the witness wishes time on a particular question he is entitled to it.
Senator Dodd. Then I think he should state for the record each
time that he wants to confer with his lawyer before answering, because
it doesn't show on the record that there are these delays and these
long intervals between questions and answers and I think this record
should be crystal clear about what is taking place at this hearing.
Mr. Day. Quite so.
Senator Dodd. Let me make this perfectly clear. There is no ob-
jection at any time to your conferring as long and as frequently as you
want to with your lawyer. But I think, in the interest of order and
sense and reason in the conduct of the hearing, that if we are to have
these long intervals between questions and answers, it is almost im-
possible to conduct a hearing.
Mr. Tussey. I would like to make one correction. I was not told
why I was called before this committee.
Senator Dodd. I think you asked.
Mr. Tussey. I did not ask.
Senator Dodd. I may be in error. We will be glad to tell you.
Mr. Tussey. I would be glad to ask.
Senator Dodd. We will be glad to tell you that.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The committee, under its mandate from the Senate,
has an obligation to keep, as far as possible, abreast of the activities
of the Communist Party and its fronts and its associated organiza-
tions and its propaganda moves and its recruitment efforts.
The committee has information that the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee is supported by many known Commimists; that it is Com-
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 357
miinist infiltrated; that the Fair Play for Cuba Committee was
formed with the help of money which came from Castro — that is
from Communist Cuba, and the committee is therefore interested in
the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and is further interested in the
activities of that connnittee because we have information that the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee is being used by the Communist Party
as an instrument for recruitment, particularly among the youth.
The committee has information that you are connected with the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee and did, in fact, help to organize the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee in Cleveland.
The committee therefore feels that you are in a position to give the
committee information respecting the activities of that committee.
Now that is why you have been called.
Senator Dodd. 'Now you have been told. I don't want to discount
you. You are a lawyer of experience. You can understand that no
hearing could be conducted this way. You know yourself that, in
courtroom, if, every time the witness was asked a question he went
into a huddle with his lawyer, we would never be able to conduct
proceedings.
Now there is some rule of reason that should apply to these things
and I repeat, because I don't want there to be any doubt about it on
the record or in your mind, that I am not interfering at all with
your right to confer with your lawyer. All I am asking is that some
rule of reason be applied to it.
Mr. Day. Senator, perhaps if we could have one more conference.
Senator Dodd. All right, you take a conference but I wish you
would do this outside and not in here. It goes on in here all the
time. It has been happening lately that this pattern has developed :
when counsel asks a question there is a long whispered conference.
There is the same procedure on the next question and it goes on inter-
minably. There is no continuity to the record and it is about time
that we began to straighten this out.
Now you can have a recess. That is all I ask you to tell us. If
you want a recess, just ask for it and then we will go on with the
hearing.
Mr. Day. Mr. Tussey said he would like a 2-minute recess.
Senator Dodd. That is fine. He can have all the time he wants.
You can have the whole day ; you can have tomorrow, but when we
come back here I want the hearing conducted with some order.
Now we will recess and you take your conference outside where
3'ou will have privacy and are free to talk to your lawyer.
Mr. TussEY. Is there room outside ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. There are several booths outside where you can
have privacy.
(A recess was taken from 10 :40 a.m. until 10 :43 a.m.)
Senator Dodd. Now Mr. Tussey, you have had an opportunity to
confer with your lawyer, have you ?
Mr. TussEY. Yes, sir.
Senator Dodd. And are you satisfied that the time you have had to
confer with him was sufficient ?
Mr. Tussey. For the information I was seeking right for the mo-
ment, yes.
358 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Dodd. I don't know anything about that. Now you asked
for an opportunity to talk to your lawyer and I told you you could
have all the time you wanted.
Have you had enough time ?
Mr. TussEY. I don't know what you might hit me with in the future.
Senator Dodd. Nobody hit you with anything. Now I am not going
to allow these hearings to be abused and I am going to take a very
firm stand about it. If you want time to talk to your lawyer you can
have all day, all day tomorrow. You went out and you weren't gone
much more than 2 minutes when you were back in the room.
I have asked you a very simple question. Have you had a chance
to confer with your lawyer to your satisfaction now ?
Mr. TussEY. For the information that I was seeking, yes.
Senator Dodd. All right.
Mr. TussEY. Up until now. But I don't want to leave the impres-
sion that I am trying to abuse the committee.
Senator Dodd. We will leave that for some other forum, but I want
this hearing to be conducted efficiently and properly.
After all, you know we are under no compulsion to allow a lawyer
in this room at all and we have done this as a courtesy to witnesses.
But if this practice is going to become an abuse to thwart the Con-
gress, then I want to know about it and I think the American people
want to know about it.
Mr. Sourwine, you go ahead.
Mr. Day. For the record, Senator, we are not going to thwart Con-
gress.
Senator Dodd. I made no accusation against you or anybody in
particular.
Mr. Day. I want the record clear.
Senator Dodd. The record will speak for itself.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tussey, did you help organize the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee in Cleveland ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. Did you ever confer with Robert Taber about
organizing a Fair Play for Cuba Committee chapter in Cleveland?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment of the
Constitution.
Mr. Sourwine. Have you conferred with Richard Gibson about
the same subject ?
Mr. Tussey. I have to assert the fifth again.
Mr. SouR%viNE. Are you presently a member of the national com-
mittee of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Tussey. I have to assert my privilege.
Mr. Sourwine. Will you tell us who are the other members of the
national committee of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment,
Mr. Sourwine. Is it true, Mr. Tussey, that the address of the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee, Cleveland chapter, is 2605 Detroit Avenue,
the Butchers Building, room 212 ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege under the fifth amendment.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 359
Mr. SoTjRwiNE, Is it true that the office of the MESA, the union,
is at room 200 in the Butchers Building at 2605 Detroit Avenue in
Clevehxnd?
]SIr. TussEY. I assert the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Is it true that the telephone number of the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee, Cleveland chapter, and the telephone num-
ber for the MESA are the same, to wit. Main 1-8121 ?
Mr. TussEY. I have to assert my privilege against self-incrimina-
tion.
Mr. SoTJRwiNE. Will you tell us the affiliation of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee with the Institute for Improvement of Inter-
American Relations ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. Will you tell us the relationship between the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee in Cleveland and the National Fair Play
for Cuba Committee of which Mr. Robert Taber is executive secre-
tary and Mr. Gibson is acting executive secretary ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Isn't it true that you were until very recently chair-
man of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in Cleveland, Ohio?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Didn't you act as chairman of the meeting of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee in Cleveland on November 29, 1960?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, who are the officers of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee chapter in Cleveland ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth.
ISIr. SouRWTCNE. Will you tell us the size of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee chapter in Cleveland ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Who maintains the records of the Cleveland chap-
ter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
JNIr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Does the Cleveland chapter of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee maintain a bank account ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Does the Cleveland chapter of the Fair Play for
Cuba Com.mittee remit funds to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
in New York ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Isn't it true, Mr. Tussey, that you assisted in ar-
ranging a trip to Cuba, participated in by a group of individuals,
under the auspices of the Cleveland chapter of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee ?
INIr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment and
refuse to answer.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, I put it to you as a fact and ask you to
deny it if it is untrue, to correct it if the statement is inaccurate, that
you visited Cuba in December 1960 accompanied by your daughter,
Bonnie Lee.
360 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. TussEY. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouKWiNE. Will you tell us who paid your expenses on that
trip?
Mr. TussEY. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Will you tell us who invited you to go to Cuba on
that occasion ?
Mr. TussEY. I refuse to answer that question under the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Isn't it true that you did go on that trip and after
you returned you wrote about the trip ?
Mr. TussEY. I refuse to answer. I assert my privilege under the
fifth.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Isn't it true that you made public statements about
your trip to Cuba ?
Mr. TussEY. I refuse to answer the question. I assert my privilege
against self-incrimination.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Isn't it true that you were invited to visit Cuba by
the Ferrocarriles Consolidatos de Cuba?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth.
Mr. SouRWiNE. While you were in Cuba Mr. Tussey, you met Fidel
Castro and attended a May Day celebration in Cuba; is that not
correct ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fiftli.
Mr. SouRW^]s^E. Will you tell us, Mr. Tussey, who, besides your
daughter accompanied you on your trip to Cuba in December 1960 ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment of the
Constitution.
Mr. Sourwine. Isn't it true, Mr. Tussey, that Vincent Hallinan, an
attorney for the ILWU, and Lyle Stuart, editor of a weekly publica-
tion, were with you in Cuba in December 1960 ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and my
rights under the first amendment for the reason that such association
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tussey, isn't it true that the Cuban railroad
union paid your expenses on the occasion of your visit to Cuba ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege and refuse to answer, under the
fifth amendment of the Constitution.
Mr. Sourwine, ]\Ir. Tussey, are you familiar with the taped inter-
views and so-called eyewitness reports dealing with Cuba which the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee is circulating?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fiftli amendment of the Constitution.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 361
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, did you have anything to do with the
preparation of these taped interviews and eyewitness reports?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr, Tussey, I show you a clipping from the National
Guardian of February 27, lUCl, page 11. This clipping has six ad-
vertisements. I call your attention to the advertisement at the bottom
which is an ad for a meeting on Sunday, February 26, the lecturer
being Dr. Herbert Aptheker.
Do you know Dr. Aptheker ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Dr. Aptheker as a fmictionary of the
Communist Party of the U.S.A. ?
Senator Dodd. Let me see that please.
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and my
rights under the first amendment to the Constitution and decline to
talk about people with whom I might be associated for the reason
such association might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. SouR\viNE. I call your attention to the first ad in this column
which says "the Castro government, is it good for Cuba, a public
forum, Richard B. Tussey argues yes; Leta Wood says no, Friday,
March 3, 1961, Great Wall Wood Church," and I will ask if you are
the Richard B. Tussey referred to there.
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. In fact, did you not participate in that meeting,
as advertised ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Leta Wood ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth and my rights
under the first
Mr. SouRwiNE. May this clipping
Mr. Tussey (Continuing). And decline to talk about people who
I may have been associated with.
Senator Dodd. This may be included in the record.
Mr. Tussey. This may tend to incriminate me.
Senator Dodd. Yv'ould you like to put this in ?
Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes.
Senator Dodd. So ordered.
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 58" and is
reproduced below :)
362 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
CLEVELAND
"THE CASTEO GOVT.— IS IT GOOD
FOE CTBA?"— A Public Forum.
Richard B. Tussey argues, "YES,"
Lata Wood says, "NO."
FBIDAY, MARCH 3, 8 P.M.
Great Hall, Epworth Euclid Church
107th A Chester Adm. free.
Ausp: Social Action Committee.
Unitarian Society
LOS ANGELES
THE CASE FOR CUBA
Speakers: ROBERT F. WILLIAMS, Un-
iOB County, N.C.. NAACP, recently re-
turned from Cuba: VINCENT HALLINAN,
prominent San Francisco attorney &
former independent Progressive Party
presidential candidate.
SAT., MARCH 4, 8:15 P.M.
EHBASSY Auditorium, 847 S. Grand Ave.
Donation $1., etudents or unem. 50c.
Ausp: Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
TWO SEMINAR SESSIONS
1— Cnba and the Theory of the Perma-
nent Revolution; Instructor: Theodore
Edwards, socialist writer and radio com-
mentator. Time: 11 a.m.-rJrSO.
2— Rise and Utcline of the American
Communist Party; Instructor: Arne Swa-
beck, a founder of the Communist Party:
and Max Geldman, socialist lecturer and
organizer. Time: l'i-30-'» p.m.
Date: Every S'lnday through March 5
1702 East 4th St.. Los Angeles
AN 9-49')3 or WE 5-9238
AUSP: International School of Socialism
Cont: 35c per individual session
MINNEAPOLIS
Fair Play for Cuba Committee
PUBLIC MEETING
Speakers: Robert Williams, NAACP lead-
er, on WHAT I SAW IN CUBA, and Ed
Shaw, FPCC Midwest Rep., on U.S.-CU-
BAN RELATIONS, at University YMCA.
1425 Univ. Ave. S.E., Sat., Feb. 25 at
8:30 p.m. Donation 75c, students 35c.
NEW YORK
PARTY, FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COJ4M.
SAT., MARCH 4. 8 P.M. »t 1S04 Long-
fellow Ave., apt. 2-E. WY 1-1367. Hear
Cuban people's own story. Recent taped
Interviews & eyewitness reports. Disc,
refreshments. Cont. $1. 7th or Lex. IRT,
£. Bronx express, 174th St. station.
SUN., FEB. 26, 8 P.M. SHARP,
DR. HERBERT APTHEKEB will lecture
on "THE REVOLUTION IN CUBA & USA
POLICY."
Brighton Community Center
32C0 Coney Island Ave., Brighton Beach
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Tussey, are you aware of Communist
Mr. Day. Excuse me. He has not testified. The record should
show that.
Senator Dodd. He testified in tlie sense he refused to answer.
Mr. Day. All right.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, are you aware of Communist infiltra-
tion of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and my
rights under the first amendment of the Constitution and decline to
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 363
talk about people with whom I may have been associated for the
reason such association may tend to incriminate me.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, will you give us the names of mem-
bers of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee whom you know to be
members of the Communist Party, U.S.A. ?
Mr. TrssEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What knowledge do you have of Communist sup-
port for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What knowledge do you have respecting any sums
of money received from Cuba by the Fair Play for Cuba Committee
or any of its officers?
jNIr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment of
the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. SouRwiNE. JMr. Tussey, were you ever a member of the Com-
munist Party, U.S.A ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment of the United States.
Mr. SouRwiXE. ]\Ir. Tussey, what connection is there between the
Socialist Workers' Party and the Communist Party, U.S.A?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. How does it happen that these two parties are co-
operating in helping the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth, my rights under
the first.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, did you report to the Socialist Work-
ers' Party regarding your attendance of a May Day celebration in
Havana ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my rights under the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Sj^dney Lens ?
ISIr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth and my rights
under the first and decline to talk about people whom I have been
associated with, since it might incriminate me.
Mr. SouRWiNE. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to deny it if it
is untrue, or correct it if it is in error in any respect, that you know
Sydney Lens and you saw him in Cuba in December 1960.
Mr. Tussey. I again assert my privilege under the fifth and decline
to talk about people under my rights under the first amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you know Samuel Shapiro ?
INIr. Tussey. Since it might incriminate me I again assert my rights
and privilege under the fifth and the first.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you know Samuel Shapiro as an assistant pro-
fessor of history at Michigan State LTniversity ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth and the first.
Mr. Sourwine. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to deny it if it is
untrue and correct it if it is in error, that you know Prof. Samuel
Shapiro and that you saw him in Cuba in December 1960.
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment and
first amendment of the Constitution.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you know Scott ISTearing, a writer for the
Monthly Review and one of the participants in the San Francisco
riots during HUAC hearings there ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth and under the
first amendments to the U.S. Constitution.
364 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. I put it to you as a fact, Mr. Tussey, and ask you to
deny it if it is untrue, to correct it if the statement is in error, that
you do know Scott Nearing and that you saw him in Cuba in 1960.
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth and my rights under
the first and I decline to talk about people with whom I may have
been associated as it might incriminate me.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Will you tell us, Mr. Tussey, what is the connection,
respectively, of Sydney Lens, Samuel Shapiro, and Scott Nearing
with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. TussET. I assert my privilege of the fifth and the first.
Mr. SouRWiNE. I will tell you Mr. Tussey, that the committee has
received reports that Scott Nearing who is a wellknown writer on
communism, was recently in Miami, publicly identifying himself as
a representative of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. Did you know
about that ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRWiNE. The reports to the committee indicate, Mr. Tussey,
that Mr. Nearing was active in propagandizing students for the
Castro cause.
Did you know about that ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. For the sake of brevity I will combine several
names in this question. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to deny
it if untrue, to correct it if it is inaccurate, that you are acquainted
with Waldo Frank, Carleton Beals, and Richard Gibson; that you
know these men as members of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth and under the first.
Mr. Sourwine. Will you tell us when and where you first met
Waldo Frank?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth and the first.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you tell us where you first met Carlton Beals ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth and first.
Mr. Sour-wine. Will you tell us when you first met Richard Gibson ?
]\Ir. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment and
the first amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know all of those men as members of the
national committee of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, do you not?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tussey, after you returned from Cuba in 1960
you praised the Castro government publicly, is this not correct?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. Didn't you, Mr. Tussey, on December 9, 1960, make
the statement in Cleveland, Ohio, that Cuba, under Fidel Castro, was
not getting fair play from the United States?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilige under the fifth.
Mr. Sourwine. Didn't you say that that was why you were forming
the Cleveland Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Tussey, I assert my privilege under the fifth.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tussey, did you ever speak before the Uni-
tarian Society of Cleveland?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth and the rights under
the first of the Constitution.
Mr. Sourwine. Didn't you, Mr. Tussey, make such a speech and
didn't you, in that speech say, "We in the United States have been
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 365
given the wrong impression that the Cubans are Communists; that
they are unfriendly to us, and the Cuban Government has confiscated
property from the Catholic churches."
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment of
the Constitution.
Mr. SouKWiNE. Do you have any information respecting whether
the Cubans around Castro are Communists?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE, Do you have any information respecting whether
the Castro government is unfriendly to the United States ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you have any information respecting whether
the Castro government of Cuba has confiscated property from the
Catholic churches?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Tussey, did you give an interview to the Cleve-
land Plain Dealer after your return from your visit to Cuba in
December of 1960?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and my
rights under the first.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Tussey, I show you a photostat of a news story
from the Cleveland Plain Dealer under date of January 7, 1961.
You will note your picture at the top of the news story. Isn't that
your picture?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you look at the story, please? This is a story
under the byline of Mary Hirschfeld of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
Will you tell the committee if this story accurately reports the inter-
view wliich you gave Mary Hirschfeld ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Senator Dodd. Mr. Tussey, I want this perfectly clear on the record.
The counsel has shown you a photostat. I guess it is a photostat.
Mr. SouRW^NE. A photostat.
Senator Dodd. Of a newspaper article from the Cleveland Plain
Dealer.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The date is January 7, 1961,
Senator Dodd. And he has asked you if that is your picture. I
want you to understand tliis question clearly and I will instruct you
to answer it.
Mr. Tussey. Can I have a moment ?
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Now before you answer you have had a conference with your law-
yer, is that right ?
Mr. Tussey. Yes, sir.
Senator Dodd. What is your answer ?
Mr. Tussey. Repeat the question.
Senator Dodd. I think it would be better if the reporter repeats it,
or perhaps, Mr. Sourwine, you would like to rephrase it, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. I will ask you, Mr. Tussey, if this picture at the
head of the column over the byline story of Mary Hirschfeld, which
is this clipping, is your picture ?
Mr. Tussey. Yes.
64139— 61— ipL 4-
366 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouEwiNE. I ask that this be oflPered for the record, Mr. Chair-
man.
Senator Dodd. It may be included at this point in the record and
printed.
(Tlie document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 59" and reads
as follows:)
Exhibit No. 59
[From the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Jan. 7. 19G1]
Bschatd B- Tussey
Casteo Still a Hero, Says Clevelandeb
(By Mary Hirschfekl)
Americans are deluding themselves if they believe Fidel Castro's popularity is
waning or Cuba is coming apart at the economic seams, v/arned Richard B.
Tussey, 3054 Euclid Heights Boulevard, Cleveland Heights, back from a 10-day
trip to Cuba.
While he was away he was removed from the payroll as a national representa-
tive for the AFI^CIO Mechanics Educational Society of America. But he is
hoping that, "as an internal problem, it will be settled within the union."
Meanwhile he is organizing the Cleveland chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee.
TOOK daughter
Tussey took his daughter Bonnie Lee, 18, a sophomore at Bowling Green State
University, on the trip that was sponsored by the Fair Play group in which 350
participated.
He went to the U.S. Embassy in Havana and concluded that the staff knew
nothing of what really was going on because they talked only with anti-Castro
Cubans.
Instead of a dismal, deserted capital, he found Havana crowded and gay, he
said. Workers had received a Christmas bonus and were spending freely.
"The Cubans have a right to expect an invasion," he asserted, "because they
know that mercenaries are training in Guatemala for it."
Tussey said he heard that an anti-Castro force would invade the Isle of Pines,
set up a Cuban government in exile there and obtain U.S. recognition.
FATR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 367
Mr. SouRWiNK. Now, will yon answer the question as to whether this
byline story accurately reports the interview which you gave Mary
Hirschfeld?
]\Ir, TussEY. 1 assert my privilege against self-incrimination of tlie
fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, while you were in Havana in December
1960 did you visit the U.S. Embassy there ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fiftli amendment.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. Isn't it true, Mr. Tussey, that you stated in Cleve-
land after your return from Havana that you had visited the U.S.
Embassy in Havana and that you found that the staff of the Embassy
knew nothing of what was really going on because they had been
instructed to converse only with anti-Castro Cubans?
Mr. TussEY. I exercise my privilege under the fifth amendment and
refuse to answer.
]\f r. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, isn't it true that after you returned from
Havana in December 1960 you made a statement publicly in Cleve-
land that the people in Havana were and I quote, "gay and happy"'
and that the workers there had received a Christmas bonus and were,
I quote again, "spending very freely," close quotes.
Mr. TussEY. Again, I assert my privilege under the fifth
amendment.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Tussey, do you know Sam Pollock, the presi-
dent of local 427 of the Amaloamated Meat Cutters?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and my
rights under the first and decline to talk about people with whom I
may have been associated.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Sam Pollock as a Communist?
Mr. TussEY. I assert tlie privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you aware, Mr, Tussey, that the Communist
Party 1937 yearbook entitled "Ohio Marches Toward Peace and Prog-
ress," which was published by the Communist Party, listed Sam Pol-
lock on the honor roll?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRWiNE. What have been, your connections with Sam
Pollock ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment and
under the first amendment regarding associations.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, were you in Cleveland, Ohio, on
September 18, 1959 ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Isn't it true that you were there and that on that
date you attended a meeting at Antioch Church?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the fifth.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Isn't it also true that many known Communists
were in attendance at that meeting?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth and my rights
under the first.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you in Cleveland, Ohio, on April 16, 1949 ?
Mr. Day. November 16, Mr. Sourwine?
Mr. Sourwine. April 16, 1949.
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth.
368 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouEWiNE. Isn't it true that you were there and that on
that date you attended a mass meeting at the public square protesting
the sentencing of the Fawick strikers?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth and the first.
Mr. SouR^v^:NE. Do you laiow what I mean by the Fawick strikers ?
Mr. TussEY. Just a moment.
I assert the privilege of the first and the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, I will state that the Fawick strike
began March 7, 1949, when the Fawick Air Flex Co. refused to recog-
nize the CIO United Electrical Workers because its officers had not
signed non- Communist affidavits. So the record may speak clearly
with regard for this I offer for the present time tM'O clippings, one
from the Cleveland Plain Dealer of Sunday, April 17, 1949, and the
other from a different page of the same paper and ask that these be
placed in the record at this point.
Senator Dodd. Yes, they may be included.
(The documents referred to are as follows:)
Exhibit No. 60
[From tbe Cleveland Plain Dealer, Apr. 17, 1949]
Appellate Judges Censube Connell — Set Bah, foe Two Jailed in Fawick Case
(By Wilson Hirshfeld)
Common Pleas Judge James C. Connell, although not mentioned by name,
yesterday was taken to task in the court of appeals for his conduct in con-
nection with the Fawick strike litigation.
In an extraordinary Saturday session, certainly one of the few in court
history, the reviewing court set bail and allowed temporary freedom for two
men jailed on Judge Connell's order Thursday. The prisoners had brought
habeas corpus actions.
"To deny bail before trial, except in capital offenses," said Judge Joy Seth
Hurd, "is a violation of a sacred basic human right guaranteed by the Constitu-
tion of the United States and the constitution of Ohio. This constitutional
right transcends all other considerations of whatever kind or nature."
SITS BY designation
Said Judge Oscar Hunsicker of the ninth appellate district at Akron, sitting
here by designation :
"I spent many years on the common pleas bench and had to punish many
contempt actions. I never felt it was the obligation of a judge to argue himself
into subordination with the law."
Said Judge Arthur W. Doyle of the ninth district, also sitting here by
designation :
"Courts are not vested with powers of arbitrary discretion. There are,
however, cases in which a judge may exercise that power which is known as
judicial discretion.
"This power of judicial discretion, however, does not give the right to a
judge to refuse the guarantees of the Constitution to persons who appear as
litigants before him.
"constitution is supreme
"These constitutional rights extend to all persons regardless of their political,
business, religious or social affiliations. The Constitution of the United States
and of Ohio is still the supreme law of this State and will be enforced in this
court."
Hearing the appelate court define their rights were Joseph Krause, 924 Park-
wood Drive NE., and Norman Berman, 3398 East 135th Street, both arrested for
writing allegedly threatening letters to Judge Connell.
Krause and Berman were the 17th and 18th individuals given temporary
freedom by the court of appeals this week in face of Judge Connell's decisions.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 369
Yesterday's was Berman's second release on bail in the reviewing court. He
and Krause each had to post bond of $500, and will face trial by Judge Connell
later as matters now stand.
FREEDOM IS ISSUED
"The sole question before this court on the issues made," Judge Hurd said,
"is whether or not the petitioners are entitled to their freedom on bail pending
trial on charges of contempt of court.
"We are not here dealing with the question of the guilt or innocence of the
accused. That is for the trial court to determine on the issues made in the
pleadings before that court. We are here dealing with basic fundamental
constitutional rights."
Then, presumably also for the benefit of telephone callers who have been
harassing the appellate bench for its decisions, Judge Hurd proceeded as follows :
"Does the accused have a right to be released on bail pending trial? Article
I, section 9 of the constitution of Ohio provides :
" 'All persons shall be bailable by sufficient sureties except for capital offenses
where the proof is evident or the presumption great. Excessive bail shall not
be required, nor excessive fines imposed.' "
Judge Hurd continued :
"A capital offense is one punishable by death. Where the proof is evident
or the presumption great, such persons are not entitled to bail. All other
persons are bailable. This provision of the constitution includes charges for
contempt of court.
"The dignity of our courts must be maintained and the judicial process must
be respected at all times and by all persons. A strong and independent judiciary
is the bulwark of our liberties.
"However, no matter how much a court or a judge thereof may feel aggrieved
by the conduct of persons charged with contempt of court, nevertheless such an
offense Is not a capital offense and is bailable under the Constitution and the
laws hereunder * * *."
Turning then to the question of habeas corpus, Judge Hurd pointed to the
constitutional provision that this privilege "shall not be suspended unless in
cases of rebellion or the public security requires it."
"In the instant cases there had been no trial or summary sentence," Judge
Hurd concluded. "So that, until such a time as there is a trial, the accused are
undoubtedly entitled to bail under the provisions of the Constitution, pending
hearing on the charges lodged against them.
Because of the importance of this and other cases coming before us recently, a
formal opinion will be filed in this matter."
Judge Doyle also said :
"One of the safeguards of our laws is the risht to trial. And these men will
be given trial. But they are entitled to bail before they are found to be guilty."
DAY-BY-DAY STORY
Here are day-by-day happenings in the Fawick litigation :
Friday, April 8
Judge Connell convicts 12 Fawick injunction violators, jails them, and fixes
bond at a total of $2,360,000.
Saturday, April 9
Would-be pickets of .Judge Connell's Shaker Heights residence leave Landon
Road after being informed by suburban police the suburb has an ordinance
against picketing of private residences.
Monday, April 11
Three UE officials and members file affidavits of prejudice against the judge.
Tuesday, April 12
On a motion for stay of execution, court of appeals fixes bond of .$42, ."500 for
the 12 Fawick injunction violators. They post bond, but the sheriff keeps them
in jail on verbal orders from Judge Connell after reviewing court has ruled.
Judge Connell jails five persons who were owners of the automol>iles used to
transport the would-be picketers ; one, a 57-year-old woman, is released on the
judge's order Tuesday night. Also jailed on his order is the writer of an
allegedly threatening letter.
370 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Wednesday, April 13
Judge Connell is cleared of the prejudice cliarges in Columbus by Chief Justice
Carl V. Weygandt of the Ohio Supreme Court. Judge Connell fixes "security"
bond to keep 10 Fawick violators in custody. The court of appeals frees these
10 on habeas corpus writs. .Judge Juy Scch Hurd poiutiiig U> •luierference" with
the reviewing court's jurisdiction. Also on habeas writs, the court of appeals
frees the letterwriter and three of the jailed auto owners. All 14 freed had to
post bond, pending appeal or trial.
Thursday, April IJ^
Judge Connell orders the arrest of the letterwriter for a second threatening
letter. This man fails to win temporary freedom 2 hours later in the court of
appeals because the trial court has not denied him a trial forthwith. The re-
viewing court does free a fourth auto owner, who had been in jail 2 days, and
a fifth owner who had surrendered himself. Judge Connell arrests another man
for writing a "menacing" letter. Those freed by the reviewing court posted bond.
Friday, April 15
Five more aflSdavits of prejudice are filed against Judge Connell.
Saturday, April 16
Court of appeals frees on bond the letterwriter whom it denied release Thurs-
day ; also released under bond is the other man who wrote the judge a letter.
Exhibit No. 60-A
[From the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Apr. 17, 1949, p. 19-A]
Anti-Connell Rally Is Attended by 125 in Public Square
A rally in protest against recent actions of Common Pleas Judge James
C. Connell yesterday attracted about 125 persons to the northwest corner of
Public Square at the Tom L. Johnson monument.
The rally, scheduled for 2 :30, was 15 minutes late in getting underway.
It lasted long enough for those present to adopt vociferously a resolution
condemning Judge Connell's recent court decisions and urging Gov. Frank
J. Lausche and Mayor Thomas A. Burke to '"use their good oflaces to bring
about a settlement" of the Fawick Airflex Co. strike.
With wet snow falling and a chill breeze blowing, the weather was blamed
for the small turnout. The crowd estimate was by Detective John Ungvary
of the police subversive squad.
The resolution was read by Hugh DeLacey, State director of the Progressive
party and a former congressman from the State of Washington. Another
rally will be held at 2 :30 next Saturday, same place, in hope of better weather,
DeLacey said.
Policemen in plain clothes dotted the gathering and stood in doorways in
the Marshall and Public Square Buildings. One mounted policeman was seen
in front of the Terminal Tower.
Mr. Day. Senator, may I ask one question ?
We have no right to object to any exhibit on the grounds of
relevancy.
Senator Dodd. If you do have any objection I will be glad to hear it.
Mr. Day. I am just questioning the materiality.
Senator Dodd. You are not precluded from offering any objec-
tion. I will be glad to hear it. Certainly, you are entitled to say
what you want.
Mr. Day. I object to anything in connection with the Fawick
Works strike unless somehow connected with this witness,
Mr. SouRwiNE. I am showing this exhibit which has been ordered
into the record to explain to him what the Fawick strike w\as.
I will now state to you, Mr. Tussey, that the rally about wliich I
asked you was held in protest against the action of Common Pleas
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 371
Judge James C. Connell; that that rally adopted a resolution con-
demning the court action and urging Governor Lausche and Mayor
Thomas A. Burke to use their good ofRces to bring about a settle-
ment of the strike.
I will ask you again, with that background, is it true that you
attended that mass meeting?
Mr. TussET. I assert my privilege of the fifth and the first.
Senator Dodd. "Well, 1 might say to counsel that this is olt'cred by
counsel of the committee, as I understand it, to establish the fact that
there was such a strike and that this rally or demonstration or meeting
took place.
Mr. SouKWiNE. So the witness may know specifically what mass
meeting we are asking him about.
Senator Dodd. Yes. And for that purpose it has been included in
the record.
Mr. SouKWiNE. Were you associated in any way, Mr. Tussey, in
the framing of tactics or strategy in connection with the Fawick
strike?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Were you in Cincinnati, Ohio, on January 30,
1944?
Mr. TussET. I assert my privilege under the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I put it to you as a fact, Mr. Tussey, and ask you to
deny it if it is untrue, to correct it if it is in any respect inaccurate,
that you were there, that you were present in front of the Music Hall
in Cincinnati on January 30, 1944 where the 20th Anniversary Cele-
bration of the Daily Worker was being held and what you were doing
there was distributing Communist literature.
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth and under the
first.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. Will you tell us, Mr. Tussey, who told you to dis-
tribute that Communist literature on that occasion at that place?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth and my rights under
the first.
Mr. SoTTRWiNE. Mr. Tussey, I show you a photocopy of a news-
paper article which appeared in the "^ Cleveland Plain Dealer of
Monday, September 9, 1960. I ask you to look at that. I want you
to tell the committee if the article is incorrect in any respect.
Mr, TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth.
Mr. SouEWiNE. Mr. Chairman, may I offer this for the record ?
Senator Dodd. Yes, I want to see it.
It may be included and printed at this point in the record.
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 61" and reads
as follows:)
Exhibit No. 61
IFrom the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Sept. 19, 1960]
Americans Are Misled About Cuba. Unionist Sats
"We in the United States have been given the wrong impression that the
Cubans are Communists, that they are unfriendly to us and that the Cul)an
Government has confiscated property from the Catholic Church."
This was the report of Richard B. Tussey of Cleveland Heights, national
representative of Mechanics Educational Society of America. AFI^CIO, speak-
ing yesterday from the pulpit of the Unitarian Society of Cleveland.
372 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
"They don't hate us," he said. "Their antagonism is aimed against the
monopolies that have liept them on a one-crop (sugar) economy. Actually, they
want much friendlier relations with us."
Tussey and his wife recently returned from a 2-week vacation in Cuba. He
said he went there to get a first-hand view of what was going on.
Contrary to reports, he said, the people of Cuba are free to criticize their gov-
ernment, both vocally and in the public press. He said the twice-weekly
Havana Times is anti-Castro and Cubans talked freely about their government
with him and Mrs. Tussey in stores, hotel lobbies and restaurants.
He told of seeing Fidel Castro in a hotel lobby, said the government leaders
circulated without bodyguards in public and were eager to talk with persons
from the United States.
They make a point, he continued, of reminding us that our Government
refused aid Cuba sought in 1959. Now they need foreign trade to help build
their industries ; so they do business with whoever will trade with them, in-
cluding Russia and East Germany, he went on.
Tussey said he was told by several Catholic priests sympathetic to the Castro
government that, contrary to reports, none of the church's property in Cuba
"has been touched" by the government.
He suggested that news reports from Cuba might be more authentic if cor-
respondents from the United States circulated more throughout the island.
Tussey's answers to a reporter's questions were interrupted by a swarm of
bees that entered the family's home at 3054 Euclid Heights Boulevard. Their
9-year-oId daughter received eight stings and their dog "about 20," he said later.
The daughter was treated by a physician who lives next door.
Mr. Day, May we confer for one moment ?
Senator DoDD. Yes.
Mr. Day. All right, sir.
Mr. SouKwiNE. Mr. Tussey, referring to the matter of the mass
meeting in connection with the Fawick strike, the meeting at which
a resolution was presented, I will tell you that this resolution was
presented by Hugh DeLacy, Ohio director of the Progressive Party
and a man who has a Communist Party record. I will ask you : Do
you know who DeLacy is?
Mr. Tussey. No, I assert the privilege of the fifth and the first.
Mr. SouKwiNE. Mr. Tussey, I show you a photostat of a news story
which appeared in the Cleveland Press of December 9, 1960. Will
you look at that, please ?
I ask you to read this news story and tell the committee if it con-
tains any erroneous statements.
Mr. Tussey. I decline to answer under the fifth amendment and
under the first amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. I offer it for the record, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Dodd. By the way, I read this article from the Cleveland
Plain Dealer.
Let me ask you : Did you speak at this Unitarian Society or not ?
Mr. Tussey. I think I have already aswered that question.
Senator Dodd. Well, did you? I didn't understand that you had
been asked it. Maybe you were. Was he, Mr. Sourwine?
Mr. Sourwine. I asked the question about speaking. I didn't
ask it directly in connection with the clipping. After the question
had been answered, I showed the clipping and asked the witness if
there was anything in error.
Senator Dodd. And he refused to answer the question.
Very well. I assume there are plenty of witnesses available who
were there at that time.
Mr. Sourwine. I believe it will be possible to locate them, sir.
Senator Dodd. We can call them.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 373
Very well, go ahead, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. SotjRwine. May this be admitted?
Senator Dodd. It may be admitted.
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 62" and
reads as follows:)
Exhibit No. 62
[From the Cleveland Press, Dec. 9, 1960]
Union Leader Here Forming Group Aimed at Giving Cuba Fair Play
Richard B. Tussey, a national representative for the AFL-CIO Mechanics
Educational Society of America, doesn't believe Cuba under Fidel Castro is
getting fair play from this country.
That is why he is forming a Cleveland chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee. Tussey is a membor of the national committee.
He says it is affiliated with the Institute for the Improvement of Inter-
American Relations, which is chartered by the New York State Board of
Education.
gives purpose
The committee says its purpose is : "To disseminate truth, publish factual
Information which the U.S. mass media suppress * * * and combat the ignorance,
the inadequate leadership, the blatantly distorted reporting which we believe to
constitute not merely a grave injustice to the Cuban people and a serious threat
to their dream of a better life, but a serious threat, as well, to the free traditions
of our people, our Nation, our hemisphere."
Tussey doesn't want anyone to get the idea that his union has any connection
with his efforts on behalf of the committee.
meet reporter
"I'm doing this on my own," he said. "The union has no connection with it."
Tussey, 42, became a member of the national committee after he met Robert
Taber, one of its founders, during a visit to Cuba in April. Taber was working
then as a newsman for the Columbia Broadcasting System. He is now the
national committee's executive secretary.
Among those on the national committee, Tussey said, are: Author Waldo
Frank ; Carleton Beals, who has written books on Latin America ; Samuel
Shapiro, assistant professor of history at Michigan State University ; I. F.
Stone, journalist who publishes the I. F. Stone Newsletter ; Kenneth Tynan,
British journalist, and Richard Gibson, former CBS newsman.
Tussey visited Cuba again in August. He said : "I went there to see for
myself what is going on."
finds CASTRO SUPPORT
"I found that Castro has the support of the overwhelming majority of the
people. His opposition is from the wealthy who supported Batista and his
corrupt gang.
"Not enough has been published about what Castro has done to improve the
standard of living for peasants and workers. New schools are being built.
''Hospitals are being built and medical care is being provided in areas that
never had these. Low-cost housing is under construction. The big estates,
including those of Castro's own family, are being broken up and distributed.
"The people are hard working and enthusiastic. They have a feeling that
they are accomplishing something for themselves under Castro instead of living
under a regime like Batista's that ignored their needs."
DENY satellite CHARGE
"I asked some if Cuba was in danger of becoming a satellite of Russia. The
answer was : 'We were a satellite of the United States for 58 years. We don't
intend to become a satellite of any country again.' "
What about the charge that Castro is a dictator?
"Castro is a dictator for the many, Batista was a dictator for the few who
were plundering the country. Not even Castro's enemies claim that he and his
regime are dishonest.
374 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
"I'm not in favor of dictators of any kind. It's my opinion that if Castro
succeeds in consolidating his regime, the dictatorship will end in Cuba."
REVOLT WAS SOCIAL
"We must remember that Castro led a social revolution, not just a changing
of the palace guards. He has moved quiclily to consolidate his position as
strongly as possible in the event of a counterrevolution by his enemies.
"It's my opinion that Castro sought aid from the Soviet bloc because of the
cold shoulder received from the State Department when he sought help from
the United States after he seized power.
"I thinlj there's still a chance of wooing him away from the Soviet bloc if
our attitude isn't frozen too hard."
ACTS AS CHAIRMAN
Tussey said the national committee has promoted local chapters in several
other cities and student chapters at several colleges.
He is acting as chairman of the Cleveland chapter until it is permanently
organized. Among persons interested in it are other labor leaders, educators,
doctors and other professional workers, he said. Its office is in room 200, the
Butchers Building, 2605 Detroit Avenue.
Tussey lives at 3054 Euclid Heights Boulevard, Cleveland Heights.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, I show you a photostat of two news
stories from the Cleveland press, one under the date of December 27,
1960, and the other under the date of December 28, 1960.
Will you look at this photostat, please? I ask you to tell the
committee if there are any untrue statements in either of these two
articles.
Mr. Tussey. I refuse to answer under the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I offer these for the record, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Tussey. Under the first.
Senator Dodd. Yes, these may be admitted and printed.
(The documents referred to were marked "Exhibit Nos. 63 and 64"
and read as follows :)
Exhibit No. 63
[From the Cleveland Press, Dec. 27, 1960]
Labor Lbiader Tours Cuba
Richard B. Tussey, Cleveland labor leader, is among 342 Americans touring
Cuba during the holidays on what the Cuban Government calls a good-will
mission.
The tour, which includes many college students, is sponsored by the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee. The committee chairman, Carleton Beals, writer on
Latin-American affairs, is the tour leader.
Tussey, a national representative here of the AFL-CIO Mechanics Educational
Society of America, is a member of the national committee and acting chairman
of the local Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
GOES AS CITIZEN
He says he is acting as a private citizen and not as a union representative
in his connection with the committee. The committee maintains that Cuba
under Fidel Castro has not received fair play in the daily newspapers and
other mass communications media.
Tussey lives at 3054 Euclid Heights Boulevard, Cleveland Heights. His wife
said he is exi>ected back next week. She said the 10-day tour cost $100 per
person for round-trip transportation from Miami and hotel and meals.
Among others on the tour are Sidney Lens, Chicago labor leader; Samuel
Shapiro, assistant professor of history at Michigan State University; retired
Gen. Hugh B. Hester ; Scott Nearing, a writer for the Monthly Review ; Vincent
Hallinan, attoi-ney for the International Longshoremans Union, and Lyle Stuart,
identified as editor of the Independent, a weekly publication.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 375
Exhibit No. 64
[From the Cleveland Press, Dec. 28, 1900]
Union Aide Fired Before Cuba Tour
Richard B. Tussey, unionist who has been active in the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee, has been dismissed as a national representative of the AFL-CIO
Mechanics Educational Society of America.
Tussey, who is touring Cuba, was severed from the union's payroll Decem-
ber 12, Miss Elizabeth McCracken, MESA's national secretary, said. She was
reached at the union's national headquarters in Detroit.
Miss McCracken said Tussey was given accrued vacation pay until January 1.
Miss McCracken denied Tussey was fired because of his affiliation with the
committee.
BELIEVED UNION MEMBERS
She said, "His connection with the Cuba committee was not the reason. I
don't want to discuss the reasons publicly. Let's say there was an accumulation
of things that led up to it."
She said that she believes Tussey is still a member of MESA Local 72 but
does not now hold a paid union job.
Tussey, 42, lives at 3054 Euclid Heights Boulevard, Cleveland Heights. He
is acting chairman of the local Fair Play for Cuba Committee and is a member
of the national committee. This group claims that Cuba under Fidel Castro
is not getting fair play in this country from the daily newspapers and other
mass communications media.
Mr. Souea\t:ne. Mr. Ttissey, do you know Ed Shaw, Midwest rep-
resentative of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Tussey. I refuse to answer, exercise my privilege under the
fifth and first.
Mr. SouTtwiNE. Do you know who pays Mr. Shaw ?
Mr. Tussey. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Soukwine. Mr. Tussey, did you ever use the facilities of your
union to prepare material for the Socialist Workers' Party ?
Mr. Tussey. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SoLTiwiNE. Mr. Tussey, isn't it true that in 1952 you did use
the facilities of your union to prepare mimeographed leaflets for
the Socialist Workers' Party ?
Mr. Tussey. I decline to answer. I exercise my privilege of the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tussey, did you ever receive money from a
source known to you to be foreign ?
Mr. Tussey. No.
Mr, Sourwine. Did }"0u ever receive money from a Cuban source?
Mr. Tussey. Just a moment.
No.
Mr. Sourwine. Did you ever receive money from a source connected
in any way with Fidel Castro ?
Mr. Tussey. Just a moment.
Senator Dodd. You may confer with your lawyer before answering.
Mr. Tussey. To the best of my knowledge, I never have, I never did.
Mr. Sourwine. Did you ever receive money from the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Tussey. Can you clarify the question, please ?
Mr. Sourwine. Did you ever receive money from the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee ?
376 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Dodd. It is a pretty simple question. I don't know how
it can be clarified.
Mr. Day. Can you explain the ambiguity? You mean on a per-
sonal basis ?
Senator Dodd. How else can he receive it ?
Mr. Day. He might have received it in an official capacity.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The question is if the man received money. He
can then explain in what capacity he received it. When a man re-
ceives money it is perfectly plain. It may require explanation as to
why or who.
Mr. Day. This is what I didn't understand.
Senator Dodd. He can explain any answer, counsel, as fully as he
wants to.
Mr. TussEY. Just a moment. May I confer ?
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Mr. TussEY. I personally never received any money from the Fair
Play Committee.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
(Mr. Tussey nods head affirmatively.)
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever receive any money from Richard
Gibson ?
Mr. TussEY. I personally never did.
Senator Dodd. Did anyone receive it in your behalf ?
Mr. TussEY. May I confer ?
Senator Dodd. Yes, you may confer with your lawyer again.
Mr. TussEY. There was never any money received in my personal
behalf by me or anybody else as far as I know.
Mr. SouRwnNE. Well, money received in your personal behalf is
different from money received by you personally. I don't know how
you could receive money other than personally if you received it. It
would be you personally who was receiving it.
Now, without regard to the question of what it was for
Mr. Day. I understand. Senator, I have a right to object to any-
thing besides documents. I think I ought to object to that gratuitous
statement by counsel. That isn't anything but his own personal
interpretation.
Senator Dodd. I think counsel is trying to explain.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I am trying to explain this question so the witness
may be perfectly clear on what is being asked.
In the connotation in which this question is asked and in which we
hope it will be answered, I am talking about money which was handed
or otherwise transmitted to you, regardless of what the purpose of
the money may have been or what its intended use may have been, and
I am asking whether, in that connotation, you received money from
Richard Gibson.
Mr. TussEY. Would you please repeat that question ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Would you read it back ?
Mr. TussEY. Just a moment. I assert the privilege under the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. In the same connotation
Senator Dodd. Wait a minute, Mr, Sourwine. I want to hear that
question read again.
(The question was read by the reporter.)
Senator Dodd. Mr. Sourwine, repeat the question.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 377
Mr. SouRwiNE. I will repeat the question.
I am asking j^ou this question, using the word "received" in the sense
of whether it came to you in person through the mail or by any other
means of transportation or transmission, and without regard to any
question of its purpose or its ultimate intended use, and using the
word "received in that sense, did you ever receive any money from
Richard Gibson ?
Mr. TussEY. Just a moment.
Senator Dodd. You may confer, if you want to confer with your
lawyer you may do so again.
Mr. TussEY. I am afraid that I will have to assert my privilege
under the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Using the word "received" in exactly the same
sense, did you ever receive any money from Robert Taber?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Using the word "received" in the same sense, did
you ever receive money from Fidel Castro ?
Mr. TussEY. I will have to assert my privilege under the fifth
amendment.
Senator Dodd. You think this is funny, Mr. Tussey? TVe don't.
This is quite a serious matter and I wish you would refrain from
laughing or joking.
Mr. Tussey. I am not laughing and joking.
Senator Dodd. Yes, you are. Everyone heard a,nd saw you. I am
going to ask you to conduct yourself as a gentleman.
Mr. Tussey. I am conducting myself as a gentleman.
Senator Dodd. This is a serious matter.
Mr. Tussey. I realize the seriousness of it.
Senator Dodd. It involves the security of the United States and we
don't want you to treat it as a joke and I am ordering you not to
proceed.
Mr. Day. May we have a short conference ? Just 1 second.
Senator Dodd. Let the record show that counsel has asked to confer
with his witness after I made that statement.
Mr. Tussey, The answer to that last question is "No."
Mr. Day. So the record is clear, he is withdraw^ing the privilege
under that question, sir.
Senator Dodd. Very well.
Go ahead, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tussey, you have testified that you did not
receive money from a source known to you to be foreign ; that you did
not receive money from the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. I will
tell you that it is well known that Mr. Robert Taber is executive
secretary of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee; that Richard Gibson
is acting executive secretary of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee,
and also that there is sworn testimony that the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee received substantial sums of money from an official of the
Cuban Government, to wit, Raul Roa, Jr.
In this connotation, I seriously question whether, having given the
answers you did with respect to the question of whether you received
money from the Fair Play for Cuba Committee or from a Cuban
source, you are entitled to claim privilege with respect to the questions
if you received money from Richard Gibson and Robert Taber.
378 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
I think these questions are fair tests of the credibility of your prior
answers and for this reason I ask that the Chair order and direct that
these two questions be answered.
Senator Dodd. Yes, and I am of the same opinion that the subject is
now opened and that you are required to answer this question. The
Chair instructs you to answer it and orders you to answer the question.
Mr. TussEY. Which question ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. The two questions, whether you received monej
from Robert Taber, whether you received money from Eichard
Gibson.
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiisrE. Mr. Tussey, have you publicly stated your belief
that a socialist revolution is coming in this country ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege, my privilege under the first.
Mr. SotTRWiNE. Were you ever connected with the lAVlV ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth and under the
first.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. Were you in Cincinnati, Ohio, on January 4, 1941 ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Isn't it true that you were there and that you were,
on that date, arrested in Cincinnati ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Isn't it true, Mr. Tussey, that you were arrested
in Cincinnati, Ohio, on January 4, 1941, for circulating a petition
for the Communist Party to be placed on a ballot.
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth and the first.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you tell us, Mr. Tussey, who asked you to
circulate the petition for the Communist Party ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, on August 14, 1943, at a meeting in
Gordon Park, Cleveland, were you not arrested for violation of
municipal ordinances?
Mr. Day. What is the date, sir ?
Mr. SouRWiNE. August 14, 1943.
Mr. Tussey. Can I ?
Senator Dodd. The reporter puts down what you say. I notice you
have a signal for asking a conference with your lawyer. This has
happened several times. It doesn't appear on the record that you
addressed the chair.
Mr. Tussey. It is a habit of mine.
Senator Dodd. Of course you may confer with your lawyer.
Mr. Tussey. May I consult with my lawyer ?
Senator Dodd. Of course.
Mr. Tussey. I decline to answer that, exercising my privilege under
the fifth amendment and under the first.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tussey, have you ever been indicted ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and de-
cline to answer.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Isn't it true that you were indicted in Hamilton
County, Ohio, September 25, 1940, for violating election laws and
circulating fraudulent petitions and that you pled guilty to this of-
fence and received a sentence of 4 months in jail and were granted
probation ?
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 379
Mr. Day. JMr. Chairman, I don't want to interrupt but I think I
must enter an objection, unless it is shown that this is a felony, under
well-known gromids that misdemeanors are not the basis for im-
peachment.
Senator Dodd. This is not a judicial proceeding. This is a hearing
to ascertain the facts and we are not bound by those rules.
Mr. Day I suppose so, but I want to make the record clear on this
point. It is not a felony.
Senator Dodd. I understand, counsel, and the question will be al-
lowed and Mr. Witness, what is your answer ?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth.
Mr. SouRwixE. I might state for the record, Mr. Chairman, the
question didn't go to the credibility of the witness. The question went
to the fact of whether he was the Eichard Tussey who was so in-
dicted and who so pled and who was so sentenced.
Senator Dodd. I so understood the purpose.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Where did you live in 1941, Mr. Tussey?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth and the first.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to deny if it
is untrue that in 1941 you lived at 104. Isn't that true?
Senator Dodd. 104?
Mr. Tussey. 104 what?
Mr. SouR'sviNE. Wasn't your house number 104 in Cincinnati in
1941?
Mr. Day. I think I will object to this on the vagueness and uncer-
tainty about the cjuestion.
Mr. Sourwine. There is nothing vague about what number is on
a man's house.
Mr. Tussey. In Cincinnati ?
Mr. SouRwixE. In 1941, didn't you live in Cleveland in a dwelling
that had the number 104 on the front ?
Mr. Day. Cleveland or Cincinnati ?
Mr. Sourwine. Cleveland.
Mr. Day. Before, you said Cincinnati.
Mr. Sourwine. I meant Cincinnati.
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth as I understand it.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tussey, are you a member of the Socialist
Workers Party?
Mr. Tussey. May I confer with my attorney ?
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth and my rights on the
first.
Mr. SouR"\viNE. Mr. Tussey, were you ever arrested on a charge of
larceny ?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment.
IMr. Sourwine. I put it to you as a fact and ask j-ou to deny it if
untrue, that you were arrested on a charge of larceny in Cincinnati,
Ohio, on September 30, 1940.
Mr, Tussey. I assert my rights under the fifth amendment and
refuse to answer.
Senator Dodd. What was the disposition of that charge, Mr.
SouTwiup ?
380 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Chairman, I do not have the record as to the
disposition of that charge. I would be very happy to have the wit-
ness testify.
Will you tell us what the disposition of that charge was, Mr. Tussey ?
Mr. TussEY. May I confer^
Senator Dodd. Of course.
Mr. TussET. I assert the privilege of the fifth.
Senator Dodd. May I interrupt ?
Oftentimes, if a man is charged with something, there is nothing to
the charge and I don't want it to appear on the record that we are
just throwing in charges. That is why I asked counsel, who doesn't
know what the disposition was, whether it was dropped or the de-
fendant was found not guilty. If the charge was found to be baseless,
it ought to be in the record. That is the only purpose I had in asking
the question.
Go ahead, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tussey, did you ever attend classes of the Social-
ist Workers Party?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth and the first.
Mr. Sourwine. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to deny it if
it is untrue that you did attend such classes; that you specifically
attended a class in the history of the American Revolution, October
1951, and a class in the history of Trotskyism, September 1952.
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. Were you in Cleveland, Ohio, in July of 1942?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth.
Mr. Sourwine. Did you make speeches in public parks in Cleve-
land in that month?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and the
first.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tussey, isn't it true that on July 22, 1942, you
threatened to sue tlie then mayor of Cleveland, Frank J. Lausche,
or any members of the police department of Cleveland who inter-
ferred with your activities in making appearances in public parks
in Cleveland ?
Mr. Tussey. I decline to answer under the fifth amendment and
the first.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tussey, did you ever apply for a position
with a civil defense organization?
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tussey, did you, in March 1943, speak at the
Paris commune celebration in honor of the French workers' struggle
for liberty ?
Mr. Day. What was that date, sir?
Mr. Sourwine. March of 1943.
Mr. Tussey. I decline to answer under the fifth amendment and
assert my privilege under the first.
Mr. Sourwine. Will you tell us how it came about that you were
in Paris on that date?
Mr. Day. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.
I think the witness was confused about the way he was asserting
his rights at that point. He said his privilege under the first. I
want the record to show he meant under the fifth, not the first
amendment.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 381
Senator Dodd. Very well.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I show you, sir, a photosfatic page of (lie publica-
tion of Fair Play for Cuba published by the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee, 799 Broadway, New York, N.Y., Richard Gibson, editor.
This is the issue of May 10, 1961.
Now I call your attention to the last paragraph on this page which
reads :
Demonstrations and picket lines also took place in Cleveland, Seattle, New
Haven, Baltimore, Washington, Oberlin College, the University of Wisconsin,
Auu Arbor, and Minneapolis, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.
Referring specifically to the statement respecting demonstrations
and picket lines in Cleveland, I will ask you to tell us what part
you played in tlie planning or execution of those demonstrations and
pic]vet lines in Cleveland.
JNIr. TussEY. May I consult ?
Senator Dodd. Yes, of course.
Mr. Tdssey. I decline to answer, exercising my privilege under tlie
fifth amendent.
^Slr. SouRwiNE. Maj'^ this go into the record ?
Senator Dodd. It may be included and printed in the record.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 65" and the article
reads as follows :)
Exhibit No. 65
[From Fair Play, May 10, 1961, p. 8]
FPCC DuEiNG Invasion
FFCC's immediate response in New York to the CIA invasion was to organize
mass demonstrations outside the United Nations. The demonstrations started
on April 17 with 2,000 persons and continued through the week. On April 21,
a mass rally of 5.000 in Union Square climaxed the daily picketing.
An indoor rally on Api-il 20 called by the newly formed Brooklyn chapter of
the New York FPCC drew an enthusiastic crowd of more than 500 persons.
In a seven-column ad in the New York Times of April 21 titled "An Appeal to
Americans." FPCC called for united action against the U.S. Government's flout-
ing its own and international laws in aiding the Cuban invasion. This ad was
refused by the St. Louis Post Dispatch and by all four Chicago dailies.
Over 500 persons turned out on April 28 for a banquet celebrating the first
anniversary of FPCC. Though tickets cost J?7.50 each, numerous guests were
satisfied with SRO accommodations.
On April 29, an advertisement released by FPCC and signed by 27 prominent
Negroes appeared in the Baltimore Afro-American, the largest Negro newspaper
in the United States with a circulation of 160.000. The ad declared, "Today,
thanks to a social revolution which they helped make, Afro-Cubans are first-
class citizens and are taking their rightful place in the life of the country where
all racial barriers crumbled in a matter of weeks following the victory of Fidel
Castro."'
The New York FPCC distributed over 300,000 leaflets including 100,000 "Stop
the Attack" leaflets.
On April 20 in Boston, 200 pickets paraded on the historic Common. One sign
they carried asked tongue in cheek, "Is the CIA our Peace Corps?"
Philadelphia was the scene of violence against a FPCC picket line by hecklers
and plainclothes cops. They arrested four pickets in the scuffle, none of the
attackers. The ACLU is aiding Fl'CC-retained defense lawyers.
Even in Florida, the focus of counter-revolutionary activities of the CIA
hirelings, FPCC organized a picket line in Tampa of 100 persons to protest the
invasion.
Detroit's Federal building was picketed by 150 FPCC supporters on April 20.
The demonstration rated back page coverage by the "free" press while a counter
demonstration by 22 anti-Castroites got headline treatment on page one.
64139— 61— pt. 4 5
382 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Despite inclement weather, a rally in San Francisco's civic center on April 22
ended with mass picketing of the Federal building, a march through the down-
town area, and picketing at the Hearst Examiner. Longshoremen and other
unionists, as well as students, joined the line.
In Los Angeles, Fair Play organized a 3-day demonstration at the Federal
building beginning April 17. Pickets greeted news of the setback to U.S. im-
perialism by the Cuban people with a march through the downtown section
shouting, "Hands Off Cuba." ., o^ ^ •.
Chicago pickets outside the Federal building numbered 300 on April 20, despite
heavy rain. On Saturday the 22d, a much longer line carried signs declaring,
"We Don't Want to Die for United Fruit Co."
Student chapters of FPCC across the Nation were out in force, too. Antioch
students traveled to Columbus to picket the State capitol. At Cornell, over 500
students attended a protest meeting. In San Francisco, a Bay Students Com-
mittee to Oppose U.S. Intervention in Cuba, representing at least five college
campuses, was formed immediately upon news of the invasion. With FPCC
support, it staged campus demonstrations on April 18. On April 20, a Union
Square rally drew 2,000 persons.
Demonstrations and picket lines also took place in Cleveland, Seattle, JNew
Haven, Baltimore, Washington, Oberlin College, the University of Wisconsin,
Ajin Arbor, and Minneapolis, Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal.
Mr. SouKwiNE. I show you, Mr. Tussey, a photostat of a clipping
from the Cleveland Plain Dealer of May 26, 1961, being a letter to
the editor over the signature of Kichard Gibson, acting executive
secretary, Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
I will ask you if you have seen the article of which that is a photo-
stat, or a copy of the publication of which that is a photostat?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I have a couple of questions about this, Mr. Chair-
man. First, I offer this for the record.
Senator Dodd. Yes, it can be included and printed.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 66" and reads as
follows:)
Exhibit No. 66
[From the Cleveland Plain Dealer, editorial page, May 26, 1961]
Funds Paid fob Toue
Editor Plain Dealer.
SiK : The editorial writers of the Plain Dealer apparently are more eager to
push forward their opinions than they are to check the facts. In an editorial
entitled "Fair Players Get Gypped" (May 22), these gentlemen asserted that
Robert Taber, executive secretary of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee,
"skipped out of the country with $19,000" of FPCC funds. The Plain Dealer also
accused Mr. Taber of going "to Cuba to avoid prosecution for perjury."
As acting executive secretary of FPCC during Mr. Taber's absence, I would
like to set the record straight. The $19,000 was withdrawn in cash in December
1960 to pay for the Christmas tour to Cuba of 342 Americans ; the money had to
be sent to Cuba in cash because no U.S. bank would transfer the funds directly
to a Cuban bank. The national ofiice of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee — at
799 Broadway, New York — has proper receipts from Cuban tourism officials
covering this sum. I personally explained this matter to the Eastland Internal
Security Subcommittee in Washington on May 16, and both the AP and UPI
dispatciies from Washington on May 17 contained this simple explanation. The
New York Times published the AP dispatch in its late city edition May 18, but
to the best of my knowledge, the Plain Dealer never carried either the AP or
UPI dispatch. Nevertheless, carefully overlooking the facts, it apparently felt
called upon to try to smear our committee.
As for Mr. Taber going to Cuba "to avoid prosecution for perjury," surely
even the editorial writers of the Plain Dealer must be aware that Mr. Taber has
never been charged with perjury. Indeed, all of the wild charges of the East-
land .subcommittee against FPCC have been on the order of the Plain Dealer
editorial : hot air without a shred of truth. The Fair Play for Cuba Committee
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 383
has more than 8,000 members and supporters throughout the United States —
with a strong- locai chapter in Cleveland. FPCC continues to grow stronger each
day, not because some Americans are "gullil)le," as the Plain Dealer would have
its readers believe, but rather because many Americans are not gullible enough
to be taken in by the lies and half-truths of the Eastland subcommittee and the
newspapers, such as the Plain Dealer, which support these vicious inquisitors.
RiCHAR!) Gibson,
Acting Executive Secretary,
Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
Mr. Day. Now let the record show an objection on the ground
that this is hearsay as to this witness.
Mr. SouRwiNE. There is nothing in this item which binds the wit-
ness. This is the item which was shown him and on which lie declined
to answer a question as to whether he had seen it.
I do now have a couple of questions about it-
Senator DoDD. Yes.
iSIr. SouRwiNE I will state, Mr. Chairman, that, in essence, this
letter from Mr. Gibson, which was printed in the Plain Dealer is a
defense of the Fair Play for Cuba Conunittee.
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Mr. SoIJR^VINE. He makes, as the Chair has noted, specific refer-
ence to an item of $19,000 withdrawn in cash by j\Ir. Taber and refers
to an editorial which spoke of Mr. Taber's having skipped out of
the country with $19,000.
Mr. Gibson's letter then goes on to state that this money was with-
drawn to pay for the Christmas tour to Cuba of 342 Americans.
He neglects to state that the record of the committee hearing at
which jMr. Gibson himself testified, showed that there was another
item of between $18,000 and $19,000 which was a check drawn to
an airline, presumably to pay for this same item.
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. "VVliat I want to ask this witness about specifically
IS the statement of Mr. Gibson that the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee has more than 8,000 members and supporters throughout the
United States with a strong, local chapter in Cleveland.
Now, is that statement true that there is a strong local chapter
of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in Cleveland ?
Mr. TussEY. "l assert the privilege of the fifth amendinent.
Mr. SoTLTRWiNE. Mr. Tussey, I show you a photostat, two photo-
graphs purporting to be photographs of you, one front view and one
side view and I will ask you if those are photographs of you.
Mr. Tussey. May I confer ?
Senator Dodd. Well, let the record show that you have been con-
ferring for several minutes. It is all right, but I just wish you
would ask us so the record is clear about this.
Of course, you may have more time.
Mr. Tussey. I decline to confirm or deny it because I am not sure.
Senator Dodd. Then the document may printed at this point in the
record.
(Document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. G7" and is re-
produced on an adjoining page.)
384
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
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FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 385
Mr. SouRWiNE. We have one photograph in the record.
Mr. TussEY. i assert my privilege of the fifth.
Mr. Day. That is in connection with the photograph.
Senator Dodu. Yes.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know Sergeant Ungvary of the subversive
squad in Cleveland?
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth.
Mr. SouRWiNE. May we ask Sergeant Ungvary to come in ?
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Come right in, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Tussey, will you look at this gentleman who
has just come in and is sitting on the chairman's right. Do you know
him ?
Mr. TussEY. May I confer?
Senator Dodd. Yes, if you want a chance to talk to your lawyer you
may have it.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Cliairman, while this conference is going on I
will ask that Sergeant Ungvary be sworn.
Senator Dodd. Yes. Stand and raise your right hand, please.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give before the sub-
committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Ungvary. I do.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you completed your conference ?
Mr. TussEY. Yes, and I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment
of the Constitution.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. Sergeant Ungvary, give your full name for the
record.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN J. TINGVARY
Mr. Ungvary. John J. Ungvary.
Mr. Day. May I make an inquiry of the Chair at this time ?
Senator Dodd. Yes. But let us get his address first, counsel.
Mr. Ungvary. 17103 Stockbridge Avenue, Cleveland 28, Ohio.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Your business or profession ?
Mr. Ungvary. A member of the Cleveland Police Department,
assigned to the Bureau of Special Investigations with the rank of
sergeant of police.
Senator Dodd. Very well.
Mr. Day. Just an inquiry for the record. Will there be a privilege
of cross-examination of this witness ?
Senator Dodd. No. But if you have any questions that you want
asked, you can request the Chair that they be asked. But this is not
an adversary proceeding and it is a factfinding hearing.
Mr. Day. I just want the record clear.
Senator Dodd. If you have any questions you would like to ask Mr.
Day, I will certainly entertain the request.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Sergeant, do you know this man who has just
refused to answer a question as to whether he knows you ?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, I do.
Mr. Sour WINE. Wlio is he ?
Mr. Ungvary. Richard Berlin Tussey.
386 FAIR PLAT FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know him as a member of the Cleveland
chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes.
Mr. SouEWiNE. Do you know what office, if any, he holds in that
chapter ?
Mr. UxGVARY. Tlie chairman of the Cleveland chapter.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know if he is presently chairman or if he
has recently stepped down from that job?
Mr. Ungvary. So far as I know he is still the chairman.
Mr. SouRWiNE, Did you know that he was chairman at recent date I
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I have no more questions of Mr. Ung^^ary.
Did counsel for the witness want to place any questions?
Mr. Day. Just one, Mr. Chairman, if I may.
Do you know — I believe you qualified your answer, Mr. Ungvary —
but do you know if Mr. Tussey is presently chairman of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee ?
Senator Dodd, That is all right. I think that is a fair question.
Mr. Ungvary. I believe that he still is.
]Mr. Day. If I said to you that he was not, would you deny it ?
Mr. Ungvary. No, I would not deny it.
Mr. Day. That is all.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Tussey, do you wish to deny that you are
presently chairman of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Tussey. May I confer ?
Senator Dodd. Yes, you may confer with your lawyer.
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment. I don't
want to waive my privilege.
Mr. Sourwine. I have no more questions of Mr. Tussey.
Senator Dodd. Mr. Tussey, did you ever receive any check or any
other thing of value from the Fair Play for Cuba Committee — and by
other thing of value I mean something like an airline ticket or rail-
road ticket or bus ticket or a ticket for transportation of any kind ?
Mr. Tussey. May I confer ?
Senator Dodd. Yes, of course, you may confer.
Mr. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth.
Mr. Sourwine. Following up the chairman's question in that regard,
Mr. Tussey, isn't it true that you received a check in the amount of
$720, dated May 2, 1961 signed by Richard Gibson, drawn on the ac-
count of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in Chase National Bank,
the Fifth Avenue Branch, New York City ?
Mr. Day. May I have that date?
Mr. Sourwine. May 2, 1961.
Mr. Tussey. May I confer ?
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Mr, Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth.
Mr. Sourwine. I want to point out to you, ^Mr. Witness, because
we don't want to trick you, that this record shows your testimony
to be that you did not receive money from the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee. Now a check is money. This check exists. It will be pos-
sible to demonstrate who endorsed it. It will be possible to demon-
strate who deposited it and to what account, and if you desire to make
any change in your testimony as it stands in the record, you should
have that chance now.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 387
Mr. Day. Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that the testimony shows
ut this point that JNIr. Tussey lias not received any money personally,
that \\as used by him personally, and that is the meaning of it.
Senator Dodd. I think this is quibbling, and I think everyone in the
room knows it. It was very clearly understood by everyone here what
counsel was asking and the purpose of his question.
Now I think he has been very fair in pointing out to this witness
just what is involved here and I think the witness clearly understands
what is involved here and we all heard his answer that he never re-
ceived any money and he went so far as to spell it out, I thought, in
some detail.
Now he has been told that there are documents available here and
he has been told that if he wants to correct his testimony, he now has
an opportunity to do so. Now he can do what he wants to and I am
sure Mr. Day is a competent lawyer and you know what is involved
here.
Mr. Day. I certainly do, and that is the reason I wish we could
have the record read on that point. I think it is clear. If it is not
clear we can clarify it.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, we can't clarify the record except
by a statement by the witness.
Mr. Day, I didn't suggest we would. I felt we might read it and
see what it was.
Senator Dodd. We are going pretty far in this trying to give this
witness a chance to tell the truth, and I think this hasn't been any
very long drawn-out session. I think he has clearly understood the
question.
He has been very sharply reminded that there is proof available. I
think that is about all we are required to do. I don't think we are
required to do that, but we have done it.
Now he can do what he wants to and we are not going to do any
more. If he has anything to say now is the time to say it.
Mr. Day. May I confer with him ?
Senator Dodd. Yes.
Mr. TussEY. My answer is that I testified that I never received any
money for personal use.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, did you receive money for the use of the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee, Cleveland chapter ?
I will rephrase the question.
Did you ever receive money or checks from the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee, New York, for the use of the Fair Play for Cuba,
Cleveland chapter?
Mr. TussEY. I would like to confer for a moment.
Senator Dodd. You know, this is all right, all these conferences,
but you know it does suggest to me that the witness is not being
direct and truthful with this committee and I am not going to permit
him to toy with us.
Now these questions are pretty simple and we have gone to some
pains to give you an opportunity to tell the truth.
I will ask you a question. Have you ever received any money for
your own use or for the use of anybody else or for any purpose of
any kind whatsoever from the Fair Play for Cuba Committee 5 And
answer yes or no.
Mr. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth.
388 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Dodd. Very well. That is the record.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr Chairman, the witness having already answered
that question on the record, is not entitled to assert the privilege of
the fifth amendment wiien he is asked again.
Senator Dodd. I am confident that is so, and the Chair instructs
you to answer the question.
Mr. Day. The question you asked included several points as to
which the witness previously had testified singularly. If it were
not a double-or triple-barreled question
Senator Dodd. You want me to ask it out in detail? I will let
counsel do it.
Mr. Day. I think we can answer the last question counsel put.
Mr. SouRWiNE. I am satisfied with the record, if the witness will
respond to the chairman's questions.
Senator Dodd. The Chair so instructs and orders the witness.
Mr. TussEY. I assert the privilege of tlie fifth amendment.
Senator Dodd. Very well.
Mr. SouEwiNE. I have no more questions of this witness. He can
be excused.
Senator Dodd. I want to say for the record, Mr. Day, that what
I said about the witness' deportment in no way reflects upon you.
I think you conducted yourself very creditably here and have been
entirely courteous and competent m every respect and I appreciate
your conduct before the committee.
Mr. Day. Thank you, sir.
Mr. TussEY. Am I free to go now ?
Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes.
Senator Dodd. We have no further questions.
Mr. Day. Senator Dodd, may I make a inquiry about the state
of the record ?
If I understand the rules we are not entitled to buy a copy of the
record until it is made public. Am I correct in that ?
Mr. SouRWiNE. It may never be made public. You are, however,
entitled to access to this record, you or your client at any reasonable
time in the committee's rooms.
Mr. Day. I see.
Senator Dodd. If we decide to make this record public, you will
be given an opportunity to see it in advance of its publication.
Mr. Day. For pay, I assume ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. The committee will furnish you a copy.
Mr. Day. Fine.
Mr. SouRWiNE. And receive any corrections or revisions that you
want to make.
Mr. Day. In the meantime, are we restricted in our rights? I
know newspapermen will be around. Are we restricted in our right
to comment ? I am not talking about me but Mr. Tussey.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You should know the committee will not discuss
this record. They will not even confirm or deny that the witness has
appeared. The witness is perfectly free to say whatever he wishes
in this regard.
Senator Dodd. Unless the committee decides to make it public.
Mr. Sour WINE. Unless by majority vote they decide to make it
public.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 389
Mr. Day. I was curious if we were under restriction in the
meantime.
Senator Dodd. No.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Call Mrs. Jean Tusse3\
Senator Dodd. Mrs. Tussey, you were sworn yesterday so there is
no need of administering another oath.
TESTIMONY OF MRS. JEAN TUSSEY— Resumed
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mrs. Tussey, do you Imow this gentleman on my
left? . .
Let the record show that I am indicating Sergeant Ungvary.
Mr. Day. May we have one moment ?
Senator Dodd. Of course.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Would you answer the question? Do you know
Sergeant Ungvary, the man on my left?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert my privilege under the fifth amendment
of the Constitution.
Mr. SoTjRWiNE. Sergeant Ungvary, do you know this lady ?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, I do.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Who is she ?
Mr. Ungvary. Mrs. Jean Tussey.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know her as a member of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee, Cleveland chapter?
Mr. Ungvary. From information acquired, I know her to be a
member.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You Imow her to have attended meetings of that
committee ?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine. I have no more questions, Mr. Chairman, and in
view of the extreme shortness of time I respectfully suggest that, as
Sergeant Ungvary has to get back, we proceed with the identification
of one more witness by him and then recess. We will arrange to
complete the testimony of the other witnesses this afternoon.
Mr. Day. Senator, just for the record, and I am not trying to in-
terrupt, I won't object to the last answer because he clearly says in it
that it is from information acquired and therefore not from his own
Iniowledge.
Senator Dodd. I think he answered with respect to whether or not
she was.
Mr. Sourwine. The attendance of Mrs. Tussey at the meetings is
to your personal knowledge?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes.
Mr. Day. But as to her membership, I think he said as to other
sources.
Mr. Sourwine. The record will speak for itself.
Mr. Day. My objection will stand.
Mr. Sourwine. We can temporarily excuse Mrs. Tussey.
Senator Dodd. All right.
Mr. Sourwine. Until 2 :30 this afternoon.
Senator Dodd. Do you have somebody else coming in right away?
Mr. Sourwine. Yes.
Will you return at 2 :30, please, Mrs. Tussey ? All the other wit-
nesses can return at 2 :30 except Mr. Kirsch.
390 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Dodd. You had a third client ?
Mr. Day. Mr. Levey.
Mr. SouRwiNE. For the purpose of this very brief session now it is
merely one of identification. The chairman has to leave. We will
have to ask, after a couple of minutes here, that your client come
back at 2 :30.
You have been sworn, Mr. Kirsch ?
TESTIMONY OF HERMAN KIRSCH
Mr. KmscH. Yes, I have.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The gentleman on my left is Sergeant Ungvary of
the Cleveland (Ohio) Police Department. Do you know him?
Mr. KiRSCH. I must decline to answer that question on constitu-
tional grounds that I cannot be compelled to be a witness against
myself.
Mr. SoTjRwiNE. Sergeant Ungvary, do you know Mr. Kirsch?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes.
Mr, SouRwiNE. Do you laiow him as a man who, to your personal
knowledge, has attended the meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee in Cleveland?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I have no more questions, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Dodd. All right, that is all.
Mr. SouRwiNE. We will take them again at 2 :30 this afternoon.
Mr. Faulkner. May I have the name of the witness who did the
identifying?
Mr. Un(;vary. Sgt. John J. Ungvary.
Mr. Faulkner. And 3^ou are?
Senator Dodd. The testimony was given and you were here, coun-
selor. He is a member of the Cleveland Police Department. Address
your questions to me, please, and not to the witness.
Mr. Faulkner. Also for the record, I raise a question of the quorum
at this particular hearing.
Senator Dodd. State your answer, Mr. SourAvine.
Mr. Sour WINE. Well, the question was raised. The committee has
authority to sit. The witness has been furnished with a copy of the
handbook which shows the authority of the committee to sit with one
member for the purpose of swearing witnesses and taking testimony.
Mr. Faulkner. If the committee has been authorized. If the reso-
lution has been adopted.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The resolution is printed in that document, Mr.
Faulkner.
Mr. Faulkner. I question it. However, it is on the record.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The resolution does exist.
Senator Dodd. You can feel quite comfortable, sir, the resolution
does exist.
(Whereupon, at 12:10 p.m., the subcommittee recessed, to recon-
vene at 2 :30 p.m., on the same day.)
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 391
AFTERNOON SESSION
Senator Johnson (presiding). The Subcommittee on Internal
Security will come to order.
The attorney will call the first witness.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mrs. Jean Tussey.
TESTIMONY OF MRS. JEAN TTJSSEY— Eesiimed
Mr. SouRw^iNE, You have been sworn, Mrs. Tussey?
Mrs. TussET, Eisfht.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Senator Olin Jolinston of South Carolina is pre-
siding, Mrs. Tussey.
This is Mr. Jack G. Day, her counsel, Senator.
Mr. Day. How are you, sir ?
Senator Johnston. Glad to meet you, Mr. Day.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mrs. Tussey, during j^our earlier testimony you
were asked about your marital status and, as I remember, you stated
you were married but you claimed your privilege under the fifth
amendment not to testify against yourself in declining to answer
the question as to your husband's name. We were somewhat puzzled
but I want to clear the situation up and I don't want to let the
record stand with any wrong impression.
Now you married a Mr. Simon for your first marriage, did you not ?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and
also tlie first.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You married Richard Benjamin Tussey on August
1, 1952, in Cleveland, Ohio, isn't that correct?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth and the first.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Cluiirman, I ask the Chair to order that the
records of the marriage of Richard Tussey and this witness, if avail-
able, be procured from the proper authority in Cleveland and inserted
in the record at this point. We can get a certified copy of this.
Senator Johnston. 1 order that to be done.
392
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
(Following is a certified copy of the marriage record of Richard
B. Tussey and Jean Simon as furnished the subcommittee under the
seal of the probate court of Cleveland by the deputy clerk, Helen E.
Terry:)
^yj Page.sr^./
\o\.^..X^.
COPY OF RECORD
ss.
IN THE PROBATE COURT
THE STATE OF OHIO
Cuyahoga County
FRANK J. MERRICK.
lyJBKB^BBBi^StB^E^ Judge of the Probate Court within and for the
County of Cuyahoga, do hereby certify that the following is a true and cor-
rect Transcript, taken from the Marriage Records in this office, where the
same are by law required to be kept to wit:
THE STATE OF OHIO
Cuyahoga County
I certify that on the..
^p3fefe«-r:C........../^..X^J!LA^
were by me legally joined in marsiftge
J-
•iL4 c^i?
IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and the seal of
said Probate Court at the Cite of Cleveland, in said
[seal]
obate Judge.
Deputy Clerk
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 393
Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you ever divorced from your first husband,
Mrs. Tussey ?
Mrs. Tussey. May I consult for one moment ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Of course. You do not have to ask for permission
to consult with counsel. Just tell us you are doing it.
Mrs. Tussey. It is just a habit.
Yes, I was divorced from my first husband.
INIr. Sourwine. Would you tell us when and where that divorce
was granted?
Mrs. Tussey. In Cleveland, Ohio. I don't recall the exact date
offliand. I would have to refresh my memory on that.
Mr. Sourw^ine. Do vou know the year ?
Mrs. Tussey. 1951 or 1952. I don't recall.
Mr. Sour^vine. In any event it was prior to your marriage to Mr.
Tussey.
Mrs. Tussey. Certainly.
Mr. SouRwiNE. And your first husband's name was Simon?
Mrs. Tussey. I take the privilege of the first amendment and the
fifth amendment on that.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You won't tell us your first husband's name. Is he
still alive, your ex-husband?
Mrs. Tussey. I don't know.
Mr. Sourwine. I noted in rereading the record of your earlier
testimony that the
Mr. Day. Excuse me, sir. I think. Senator, in the last answer the
privilege is reversed. She referred to the privilege in the first.
Senator Johnston. On the first amendment.
Mr. Day. She said, "I assert my privilege under the fifth." I just
want the record to be clear on that.
Senator Johnston. That is permitted.
Mr. Sourwine. Perhaps the record should also show that if the
witness claims privilege for any reason and is not thereafter ordered
to answer, notwithstanding the claim, actually the situation is that
your claim has been accepted ancl the committee is not pressing.
I realize counsel's solicitude to protect the witness. I would respect-
fully suggest that this would be an exception to the request made earlier
that counsel consult, not ask for consultation with the witness. I think
it might be better for counsel to consult with the witness and let the
witness make the correction rather than let the counsel speak up and
make the correction.
Mr. Day. We were doing that this morning. I am not trying to be
difficult.
Mr. Sourwine. The privilege is a personal thing for the witness to
claim and it is not to be claimed on instructions, although it may be
claimed on advice.
Mr. Day. I am aware of that. I am thinking the effort was reversed.
That is all it was, and it was an attempt to correct it.
Mr. Sourwine. In the earlier testimony when I read it back, I
noticed what appeared to be a spelling of one of the names of one of
your former employers, the W. S. Gilskey Co. The record spelled
Gilskey. Can you clear this point up ?
Mrs. Tussey. I refer to the fifth in not replying to that question as
to whether I had or had not been employed by that company.
394 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. I am only asking you now whether you can tell us
the correct spelling of it. Is it G-i-1-s-k-y or G-i-1-s-k-e-y ?
Senator Johnston. Not that you were employed or anything, just
what the name is, if it is spelled right.
Mr. SouEwiNE. Do you, as a resident of Cleveland, know how the
name of that company is spelled ?
Mrs. TussEY. It is in the telephone book.
Mr. SouEwiNE. Well, I don't have the Cleveland telephone book.
Do you know ?
Mrs. TussEY. In the phone book it is spelled, I think, G-i-1-s-k-e-y.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I think so. Thank you very much.
Mrs. Tussey, you have attended meetings of the Cleveland chapter
of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, have you not?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and also
the first.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, did you hear the testimony this morning of
the gentleman on my left ?
Mrs. Tussey. Yes, I heard it.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you want to challenge the truthfulness of his
testimony that you did attend meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth and the first amend-
ment of the Constitution.
Mr. Sourwine. Your husband has been the chairman of the Cleve-
land chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, has he not ?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment against
self-incrimination and also the first amendment to the Constitution.
Mr. Sourwine. And you were active yourself, were you not, in
arranging the participation of Cleveland residents in the trip to Cuba
under the auspices of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. Mrs. Tussey, do you have any information respect-
ing Communist infiltration of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and the
first amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. Will you tell us, Mrs. Tussey, what members of the
Socialist Workers' Party beside yourself and your husband are also
members of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee chapter in Cleveland ?
Mr. Day. Mr. Chairman, I don't know what my rights are. This
morning I was occasionally allowed to object. Now I object to that
question on the grounds it assumes a conclusion. There has been no
testimony by this witness that she was a member of anything and tliis
question has mixed the assumption, unvalidated, that she is a member
of something and I think that is an objectionable point.
Mr. Sourwine. Mrs. Tussey, I put it to you as a fact and ask you
to deny it if it is untrue, to affirm it if it is true and to correct if it
is in any way inaccurate, that you and your husband are members
of the Socialist Workers' Party.
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment of the
Constitution and of the first amendment of the Constitution.
Mr. Sourwine. Mrs. Tussey, what members of the Socialist
Workers' Party to your knowledge are also members of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee chapter in Cleveland ?
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COIVEVIITTEE 395
Mrs. TussEY, I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and also
the lirst amendment of the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. SotTKwiNE. Mrs. Tussey, did you hold a meeting of tlie Fair
Play for Cuba Committee at your home on November l4, 1960?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to deny it if
untrue, that there was a meeting of the Fair Play for Cuba Commit-
tee held at your home on November 14, 19G0, and that the purpose of
this meeting was to apply to the New York office of the Fair Play
for Cuba Committee for a charter and organizing committee in the
Cleveland area.
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and
the first amendment of the Constitution.
Mr. Sourwine. I put it to you as a further fact and ask you to
deny it if it is untrue, that at a meeting of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee in your home, November 14, 1960, plans for a tour of Cuba,
mider the auspices of the committee, were discussed?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and the
first amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. I put it to you as a further fact and ask you to
deny it if untrue, to con-ect it if in any way inaccurate, that there
was a meeting of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee at your home
on November 14, 1960, and that at that meeting, Mr. Herman Kirscli
stated that the Fair Play for Cuba Committee was infiltrated by
Communists, but that some of the Communist Party members had
not paid their $5 dues.
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and the
first amendment of the Constitution.
Mr. Sourwine. The committee has reports that you have, in public,
eulogized the Castro government, the present Communist-dominated
government of Cuba. Is this report correct?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and the
first amendment of the Constil ution.
Mr. Sourwine. Are you the same Mrs. Tussey who sought space
in the YMCA at Prospect and East 22d Streets, Cleveland, for a
meeting to be held on March 19, 1960?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment of the
Constitution of the United States.
Mr. Sourwine. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to deny it, if
it is untrue, or to correct it if it is in any way inaccurate, that you did
make arrangements for this space, stating that it was anticipated 40
to 50 persons would attend.
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment of the
Constitution.
Mr. Sourwine. Can you explain to the committee, Mrs. Tussey,
if you are not a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, how
you could act for the committee in the acquisition of space for a
committee meeting?
Mrs. Tussey. May I consult just a moment ?
Mr. Sourwine. Of course.
Mrs. Tussey. I assert my constitutional privilege against self-
incrimination under the fifth amendment of the Constitution.
396 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you reiterate that you are not a member of the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mrs. TussEY. I again assert my privilege.
Mr. Day. Mr. Chairman, I think there has been no iteration that
she was a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Connnittee and therefore
there can be no reiteration.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I which case the witness will only have to answer
the question "No".
Mr. Day. But the implication would be there.
Senator Johnston. Are you pushmg the question ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. I am willing to pass it, Mr. Chairman.
Mrs. Tussey, were you ever connected with the American Committee
for the Protection of Foreign Born ?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment of the Constitution and also the privilege under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mrs. Tussey, I put it to you as a fact and ask you to
deny it if it is untrue, to correct it if it is inaccurate, that you are a
member of the American Committee for the Protection of the Foreign
Born; that you have attended meetings of that committee, and that one
such meeting which you attended was at the Hollanden Hotel on
March 31, 195T.
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth amendment of
the Constitution and also under the first amendment.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Will you tell us, Mrs. Tussey, who presided at the
meeting of the American Committee for the Protection of Foreign
Born at the Hollanden Hotel in Cleveland on March 31, 1957 ?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth and first
amendments of the Constitution.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mrs. Tussey, are you aware that the American Com-
mittee for the Protection of Foreign Born has been cited as a
Communist front by the Attorney General of the United States?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth and first
amendments of the Constitution.
Mr. SoTjRwiNE. Are you aware that this organization was so cited
on June 1, 1948, some 9 years before your attendance at a meeting of
the committee ?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege imder the fifth amendment of
the Constitution and also the first.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you the same Jean Tussey who w\as, in 1947,
an organizer of the Los Angeles branch of the Socialist Workers'
Party?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment and
also the first amendment of the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you the same Jean Tussey who, in 1960, was
a member of the national committee of the Socialist Workers' Party?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth amendment and
the first amendment of the Constitution.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you still a member of the national coniinittee
of the National Socialist Workers' Party ?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the fifth and first amendments of the
Constitution.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 397
Mr. SoiTRWiNE, Are yon the same Jean Tiissejr who, in 1952, was
an organizer of the Clevehmd branch of the Socialist Workers' Party?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth and the first
amendments of the Constitution.
JNIr. SouEWiNE. Do you know what the Socialist Workers' Party
is?
INIrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth and the first
amendments of the Constitution.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Is there any connection between the Socialist
Workers' Party and the Communist Party, U.S.A. ?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth and the first
amendments of the Constitution.
Mr. SouRwiNE. How does it happen, Mrs. Tussey, that the Socialist
Workers' Party and the Communist Party, U.S.A. are cooperating
in helping the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth and the first
amendments of the Constitution.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you ever instructed a class in Marxism?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege under the fifth and the first
amendments of the Constitution.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you, this year, instructed such a class?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment of the
Constitution and also the first amendment of the Constitution.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you ever advocated the overthrow of the
Government of the United States so that the people can establish a
workers' state ?
Mrs. TussEY. I assert the privilege of the fifth and the first amend-
ments of the Constitution.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you consider yourself loyal to the principles of
Marxism-Leninism?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege under the fifth and the first
amendments of the Constitution.
Mr. SouRWiNE. I have no more questions of this witness, Mr.
Chairman.
Senator Johnston. I believe you want to let her stay here a minute.
Mrs. TussEY. May I say something ?
Senator Johnston. You say something ? Sure.
Mrs. TussEY. Well, I would like to say, on my being here at the
committee hearing, that I come before this committee confident that
I never, to my knowledge, violated any laws of the United States or
performed any act detrimental to the internal security of our country,
but in order to protect myself from possible perjury, contempt, or
false or criminal charges based on testimony of crackpots or informers,
who, through malice or ignorance, may place me in a legal position of
incriminating myself, I propose to avail myself of the constitutional
guarantees provided for that purpose. And this course is especially
indicated in light of the Federal statutes making the advocacy of un-
popular ideas, innocent associations, and parallelism in any ideas a
potential basis of criminal indictment.
Senator Johnston. You know there is a law now that you have
to register if you are a Communist ; do you not ?
Mrs. Tussey. I am aware of that law.
64139— 61— Tt 4 6
398 -FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Senator Johnston. You are aware of that at the present time ?
(Mrs. Tussey nods head affirmatively.)
Senator Johnston. The Supreme Court has ruled by their decision
that you have to do that.
Mrs. TussET. I am quite aware of it.
Mr. SouRwiNE, Mrs. Tussey, have you ever taken admissions at the
door for a meeting of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert my privilege under the fifth and first
amendments.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mrs, Tussey, I show you a mimeographed sheet en-
titled "Fair Play Supplement, June 5, 1961," which was distributed
through the mails by the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. I will ask
you if you have seen a copy of that. You might not have. It arrived
in the mail in Washington yesterday.
Mrs. Tussey. May I take just a moment, please ?
I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment on this against self-
incrimination.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I call to your attention, Mrs. Tussey, the last para-
graph of the second column of this page which reads :
Late Bulletin
Edward Shaw, Midwest representative for FPCC, has just been subpenaed to
appear before the Eastland committee on June 14. Leading members of the
Cleveland chapter have also been subpenaed. Date 6/7/61.
I will ask you. Do you know Edward Shaw, the Midwest represent-
ative for FPCC ?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege against self-incrimination under
the fifth amendment and also the first amendment.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Now the statement makes it rather clear that the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee considers at least some of the persons
from Cleveland subpenaed to appear before the committee yesterday
as leading members of the Cleveland chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee.
The individuals so subpenaed were your husband and yourself, Mr.
Herman Kirsch, Mr. Max Levey, and Mr. Tad Tekla.
Will you tell us which of these individuals is known to you as a
leading member of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, Cleveland
chapter?
Mrs. Tussey. I assert the privilege of the fifth amendment against
self-incrimination and I also refer to the first amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr, Chairman, I ask that this mimeographed sheet
to which I have referred and which I have shown the witness and
from which I have read may be inserted in the record at this point.
Senator Johnston. It shall become a part of the record and known
as exhibit 68.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COIVIMITTEE
399
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 68" and reads
as follows : )
Exhibit No. 68
FAIR PUY SUPPLEMENT June 5, I96I
The effectiveness of FPCC has aroused
the fury of reactionary elements in the
U.S. They now operate on a nuiriber of
fronts trying to prevent our reaching the
people with the truth about Cuba,
The steady flow of slanders emanating
from the Eastland Committee (see pg. 3 of
the current Fair Play) is obviously de-
signed to encourage extra-legal attacks
on FPCC.
Meeting hall cancellations have oc-
curred in Los Angeles, Detroit, Newark
and Tampa (this last was City property
which had previously rented to the John
Birch Society)... the daily newspapers in
Cleveland and Chicago have refused to
print paid advertisements of FPCC... The
Chicago FPCC is being evicted from its
headquarters following a blast against
the Committee by McCormick' s Chicago
Tribune.
The Seattle Student Council had to
put Tip a coiirageous battle to establish
its right to peaceful picketing. On May
13, Seattle police permitted an organ-
ized gang of hoodlvims to break up a FPCC
picket line in front of the Federal Of-
fice Bldg. Student Covjicil decided to
call another picket line for Kay 27th,
taking all the necessary precautions to
prevent renewed violence. The precau-
tions were apparently adequate: a suc-
cessful picket line was held and the John
Birch Society had to be contented with
the distribution of a hostile leaflet.
Seattle FP'ers have won an important vic-
tory.
In Rockford, Illinois, Fair Players
Mr, and Mrs. Robert Horn v/ere arrested
while distributing FPCC literature in
front of an unemployment compensation of-
fice, Robert Horn was struck in the face
by a passerby so the police arrested —
you guessed it — the Fair Play distrib-
utors, who had to spend a night in the
jail before being released on $300 bond.
The local press devoted 350 column ih-
ches in reporting the story.
The Philadelphia FPCC is also in-
volved in a crucial civil liberties fight.
The chapter sponsored a picket line in
front of the Federal Bldg. on April 19
to protest the CIA-organized invasion
of Cuba. In order to have a peacefvil
picket line, the FPCC Executive Commit-
tee took the following precautions: the
police were notified both by personal
visits and in writing; the ACLU, the
Commission on Human Relations, the
press, radio and TV were also given ad-
vance notice. Although the picket line
was announced for 3:00 PM it did not be-
gin until 3:30; nevertheless there were
no police present to direct pedestrians
and prevent heckling. Picket captains
had been instructed to keep a single
file line moving in a peaceful, lawful
manner, which they did in the absence
of the police.
According to the Philadelphia Afro-
American, the picket line was "not only
attacked by pedestrians on the street
but also by the police. As a result,
four pro-Castroites who were an inter-
racial group are being held under ^500
bond for Grand Jury action. . . The pick-
eting was quiet and peaceful, despite
heckling and provocation from some in-
dividuals among the crowd that had ga-
thered." Spencer Cox, Executive Direc-
tor of the ACLU, sent a letter to Police
Commissioner Albert Brown protesting the
manner in which the police handled the
whole incident. University of Penna.
professor Gordon Walker, who fortunately
Tjas a witness to the attack has agreed
to head up a defense committee for the
arrested four. Those interested in fior-
ther information on the case should con-
tact karion Metalits, 3U7 W, Glen Echo
Road, Philadelphia, Penna.
FPCC is holding a national confer-
ence in NYC July 1 and 2. A key point
of the conference agenda will be a dis-
cussion of plans to defeat the type of
attacks described above. Contact your
local chapter for full details.
LATE BULLETIN: Edward Shaw, Midwest
Representative for FPCC, has just been
subpoened to appear before the Eastland
Committee on June Hi. Leading members
of the Cleveland chapter have also been
subpoened. 6/7/61
* VENCERSMOS *
400 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. Day. Mr. Chairman, not to interrupt, but may I have the record
show an objection to that; that it is hearsay as regards this witness
and I have nothing to say about it.
Senator Johnston. This doesn't mention this witness directly;
does it ?
Mr. Day. That is right, and that is why I object to it. Everything
about it is heresay as to this witness.
Now there is no reference to her; there is no identification to her,
and there is no establishment that she knows anything about it or
anything to do with it. That is the only point.
Senator Johnston. When was this published?
Mr. SouRwiNE. It is very easy, Mr. Chairman, for counsel to imply
testimony on behalf of the witness. If the witness wishes to testify
to these facts she certainly should have the opportunity.
Mr. Day. I was just making an objection. I don't want to argue the
point.
Senator Dodd allowed me, for the record, to object once or twice
and that is all I intended to do. I assumed the Chair would rule and
I will abide by whatever ruling he makes.
Senator Johnston. I see no objection to it going into the record.
Mr. SouKwiNE. This witness has not denied membership in the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee, she tells us, or her counsel does. She
has claimed her fifth amendment privilege in refusing to answer
whether she attended the meetings of the committee.
I believe that the testimony before the committee on this point will
speak for itself. But certainly, if the witness wishes to disavow con-
nections, she should have the opportunity.
Do you care to say anything along that line ?
Mrs. TussEY. I have taken the privilege of the fifth amendment on
that question and I think my further statement indicated my thinking
on the subject.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I think it did.
I have no more questions, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Johnston. That is all then.
Call the next witness.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You may be excused.
Mr. Day. Are you going to call the third man or should I get out
and wait ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. You would like to have Mr. Kirsch called ?
Mr. Day. Mr. Kirsch is not my client.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Your client is Max Levey ?
I am entirely agreeable that we should call Mr. Levey next.
Senator Johnston. Call Mr. Levey, please.
TESTIMONY OF MAX L. LEVEY— Resumed
Mr. SouRWTNE. Mr. Levey, we are sorry you have been held so long
as we are sorry that the other witnesses have been held so long. We
have been trying to get along as rapidly as we could.
Mr. Levey. All right, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I want to repeat for the record at the beginning
here today, so that the presiding officer will understand what I said
for the record at your previous appearance, that there is a possibility
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 401
of some mistake in identity with regard to Mr. Levey. It is possible
that there is another Max Levey ; that some of tlie information which
has come to the committee with reo-ard to Max Levey pertains to the
other Max Levey and not to tliis Max Levey who is here as a witness.
I want to try to clear this up in the record as best I can. I think
in fairness to Mr. Levey we should do this.
I also want to tell the Chair that m Mr. Levey's earlier testimony
he spoke of having been discharged by his employer because he had
received this subpena from this committee.
Senators who were present at that time expressed the opinion that
the committee staff should get in touch with Mr. Levey's former em-
ployer and should make it clear to him that there was no opprobrium
to be connected with a subpena to appear before this committee.
I want to inform you and state for the record that my office has
been in touch with Mr. A. M. Simon, president of the H. L, Vokes
Co. — you gave us the name as A. V. Simon, I believe. The record,
at least, read A. V. Simon, but the man with whom we spoke was
Mr. A. M. Simon. He is your former employer?
Mr. Levey. That is correct.
Mr. SouKwiNE, And Mr. Simon did— and I am not attempting to
commit Mr. Simon to what I now say, but this is my best under-
standing of the conversation — he did indicate that he had dispensed
with your services because of the feeling that to be called before this
committee indicated that there was something wrong wuth you. He
was assured most positively that this was not so. He was told of some
persons who have appeared as w^itnesses before the committee con-
cerning whom there could be no possible question of any wrongdoing.
He was told that the matter of your appearance before the committee
did not indicate that the committee felt that you were guilty of
anything whatsoever.
We did not ask Mr. Simon, nor did he give us any assurances, as
to what he would do with regard to your employment. We were,
under the rules of the committee, not in a position to discuss with
him what your testimony here had been. You, of course, are not
under that inhibition and you can tell him about it when you get
back if you care to do so.
He had seen the subpena, so that the disclosure to him of the fact
that you were here, we felt, was no violation of the rule and, in fair-
ness to you, we considered we should convey this to him and this we
did. I believe that you may find that Mr. Simon's attitude with
regard to the question of a mere subpena reflecting upon you in some
way is different now from what it was when you last spoke to him.
I hope this may be true. I hope that my office has been successful in
convincing him that the fact that you or anyone else receives a sub-
pena from this committee doesn't carry any implication of anything
whatsoever except that the committee hopes that you may be able to
give us some information.
Mr. Levey. I appreciate the efforts of counsel.
Mr. SouKwiNE. The question of identity as between this witness and
a possible other Max Levey can, I thmk, be gotten at in one way or
from one approach by making it quite clear just who this Max Levey
is and where he has been and what he has done over a period of time
and that would exclude any other Max Levey who was somewhere
else or doing something else at the same time.
402 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
For that reason, Mr. Levey, I will ask you is it true that you were
born Maxwell Lawrence Levey ?
Mr. Levey, That is correct.
Mr. Sour WINE. On the date you have given us, that is July 21,
in Cleveland.
Mr. Levey. July 1.
Mr. SouRwiNE. July 1 ?
Mr. Levey. July 1,1927.
Mr. SouRwiNE. July 1 ?
Mr. Levey. The first.
Mr.SouRwiNE. Of 1927?
Mr. Levey. That is correct, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, this arouses another interesting point. The
date the witness gave us, as the record indicates earlier was July 21,
1927, and the vital statistics of Cleveland shows that there was a
Maxwell Lawrence Levey born in Cevelancl on July 21, 1927.
Mr. Day. The 21st?
Mr. SouRwiNE. July 21, 1927.
I am informed that I am in error. It is July 1. So that establishes
at least that you were born, Mr. Levey.
Mr. Day. There is a lot of him here to testify to that.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Sir, would you let us have the names of your
parents ?
Mr. Levey. Yes, Abraham H. Levey and Mrs. Ida D. Levey.
Mr. Sourwine. Now before that you lived at 2537 Noble Road in
Cleveland Heights. Who did you live with there?
Mr. Leatsy. My parents.
Mr. Sourwine. And what was the address there?
Mr. Le\'ey. 4074 Bayard Road, South Euclid 21, Ohio.
Mr. Sourwine. And you have lived there for a number of years?
Mr. LE^^5Y. Yes, I traveled a great deal, but I did.
Mr. Sourwine. You had no other address ?
Mr. Levey. No, that is correct.
Mr. Sourwine. That takes us back then to what period of time?
We have had three addresses for you.. Now the one you have just
given us, the Noble Road address and the present address.
Mr. Levey. That is correct.
Mr. Sourwine. Those three addresses take us back in time to what
period ?
Mr. Lea^y. My parents have lived at their present address, which is
the Bayard Road address, sometliing like 12 years.
Mr. Sourwine. Now, before your employment with the Yokes Co.,
what was your next emplojanent ?
Mr. Levey. I was employed by Bobby Brooks, Inc.
Mr. Sourwine. In Cleveland ?
Mr. Levey. In Cleveland.
Mr. Sourwine. During what period of time ?
Mr. Levey. The year, sir, is that what you are looking for?
Mr. Sourwine. Yes, if you can.
Mr. LE^^■:Y. Well, 41^ years with Yokes and 2i/2 years prior to that
so this is 1961 and I would just offhand say around 1955 to 1957.
Would you want something more specific ?
Mr. Sourwine. Just your best recollection. Wliat was your em-
ployment prior to that ?
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 403
Mr. Levey. With the Cleveland Cotton Products Co., Inc.
Mr. SoDRWiNE. And over what period of time ?
Mr. Levey. Two years prior to that.
Mr. SouRw^NE. And were you employed somewhere else before that?
Mr. Levey. As a matter of fact, this doesn't mesh very well. I left
college in 1950 and went on the road with the Cleveland Cotton Prod-
ucts Co. That would be 1950 to 1952 or so. My job with Bobby
Brooks would have been probably in 1953 to 195G and then the pre-
vious 5 years with the H. L. Yokes Co.
Mr. SouRwiNE. We are not trying to pin you down, just establish
in general where this particular Max Levey was during these years.
Where did you take college ?
Mr. Levey. Cleveland College of Western Keserve University, sir.
Mr. SouRAViNE. And you graduated ?
Mr. Levey. No, I did not, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You didn't attend any higher educational institu-
tions anywhere else ?
Mr. Levey. I took a couple of courses at Fenn College at night in
reference to my work at Vokes.
Mr. Sourwine. Is that F-e-n-n ?
Mr. Levey. Yes.
Mr. SouR^vINE. That is in Cleveland ?
Mr. Levey. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine. And that was during the past half dozen years ?
Mr. Levey. During the past 5 years.
Mr. Sourwine. Now, you spoke earlier of your connection with the
Committee for a Sane Nuclear Policy. Will you tell us what that
connection is?
Mr. Levey. I served on the executive board of the Committee for
a Sane Nuclear Policy.
Mr. Sourwine. Nationally or in Cleveland ?
Mr. Le\t:y. In Cleveland.
Mr. Sourwine. How long have you held that position ?
Mr. Levey. Let's see, arbitrarily speaking I would say a year.
Mr. Sourwtne. And were you a member of the Committee for a
Sane Nuclear Policy before that ?
Mr. Levey. Well, sir, only for purposes of clarification there was
no membership prior to. As a matter of fact, my last testimony is
inaccurate in that membership has just become a part of our organiza-
tion the last 4 or 5 or maybe 6 months at the outside. So it wasn't
actually a membership organization. The national organization did
not have membership, per se. They do not.
Mr. Sourwine. I see. And how long have you been a member of
the Cleveland organization ?
Mr. Levey. Well, can I use the word "participant"?
Mr. Sourwine. Of course.
Mr. Levey. All right, I would say about a year and a half. Maybe
a bit more, maybe a bit longer.
Mr. Sourwine. Have you been active in connection with that or-
ganization?
Mr. Levey. Yes, I have been active.
Mr. Sourwine. I mean have you appeared publicly in connection
with it or spoken on behalf of it or issued statements in its behalf?
Mr. Levey. Well, offhand I would say none of those things.
404 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA CORIMITTEE
Mr. SouRAxaNE. Do you know of any other Max Levey connected
with the Committee for a Sane Nuclear Policy?
Mr. Le^^ey. Not to my recollection.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, what have been your contacts with Richard
Tussey, the chairman of the Cleveland chapter of the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee?
Mr. Levey. I am afraid, sir, that I will have to assert my privilege
against self-incrimination.
Mr. SouR\vi>rE. Mr. Tussey is a long-time friend of yours, isn't he?
I am speaking of him as an individual now and not as an associate
with the committee.
Mr. Levey, I will have to assert my privilege, sir.
ISIr. SouRWiNE. Will you tell us approximately how many meetings
of the Cleveland chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee you
have attended?
Mr, Levey, I must consult my counsel.
To the best of my recollection, sir, I attended one meeting and one,
for lack of a better word, call it a party,
Mr, SouRwiNE, Do you recall who presided at the meeting?
Mr. Levey. Here, sir I would have to assert my privilege against
self-incrimination under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Sourwine. ]\Ir. Levey, are you actually attempting to protect
yourself or attempting to protect someone else? You seem to avoid
the disclosure of some other name.
Mr. Levey. I am attempting to protect myself under the self-in-
crimination clause.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you participate orally, vocally out loud in that
meeting ?
]Mr. Levey, It seems to me I asked a question, I am not certain of
that, but I think I did.
Mr. Sourwine, Are you the same Max Levey who was connected
with the American Forum of Socialist Education?
Mr. Levey. As I stated in my previous testimony, sir, even though
T am not aware of the name because I am not certain at the time there
"\vas a name, but I understand and recognize what you have reference
to and I attended one meeting.
Mr. SouRwiNE. That was the meeting at the YMCA in Cleveland
on October 15, 1957, Mr. Levey ?
Mr. Levey. I think I agreed to that in my previous testimony. I
am not certain of that date. I assume it is correct.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you participate in that meeting?
Mr. Levey. Did I participate in the meeting ?
Mr. SoTjRwiNE. Yes.
Mr. Levey. Yes, I did, sir.
Mr. SoiTRWiNE. Now, who was present at that meeting?
Mr. Levey. I am afraid here again, sir, I must assert my privilege
against self-incrimination under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Haven't you given us a name or names of persons
present at that meeting?
Mr. Lextcy. No, sir, I have not.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you recognize tlie gentleman who is sitting on
my left?
Mr. LE^T>Y. I would have to assert my privilege against self-incrimi-
nation on the fifth amendment.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 405
Mr. SouRWiNE. Sergennt, do you recognize Mr. Levey?
Mr. UxGVARY. I know Mr. Levey.
Mr. SouRWiNE. From what do you know him ?
Mr. Ungvary. My first knowledge of Mr. Levey dates way back
when he was participating in activities of the Youth Progressives of
America and the Progressive Party.
Mr. SouRWiNE. He has been sworn, Mr. Chairman.
When was that ?
Mr. Ungvary. I don't recall the dates. I had no way of refreshing
my memory in respect to him.
Senator Johnston. Can you give us approximately the year?
Mr. Ungvary. May I ask a question ?
Is there any material that you have in your possession, Mr. Schroe-
der ? I don't want to make a mistake as to the year.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The question only called for your memory. It
doesn't require material. We want to know if you now remember the
date.
Mr. L^ngvary. No, I don't remember the time.
Senator Johnston. That is the only thing. I was trymg to get
the approximate year.
Mr. Ungvary. I have no recollection of the year.
Mr. Sourw^ne. Let me ask you, Mr. Levey, were you ever associated
with the Progressive Party ?
Mr. LiBVEY. Yes.
Mr. SouRWiNE. During what year?
Mr. Levey. My activity was, the campaign, the j)eriod of the 1947-
48 campaign.
Mr. feouRWiNE. Were you ever associated with the Youths Pro-
gressive ?
Mr. Le^tiy. May I correct the answer? It is the Yomig Pro-
gi'essives. I was, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. During the same period ?
Mr. Levey. I was, sir.
Mr. SouRW^iNE. Sergeant Ungvary, did you ever have knowledge
of Mr. Levey's attendance at any meeting or meetings of the Fair
Play for Cuba Committee ?
]SIr. Ungvary. Any time I saw Mr. Levey I would make a record
of it. Now whether or not I had made that notation I don't know.
I had no way of refreshing my memory.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you now remember any instance of a notation
that you made with respect to Mr. Levey's attendance at the meetings
of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Ungvary. I am afraid I do not.
Mr. Sourwine. Don't be afraid. We are just asking for your
recollection.
Mr. Ungvary. I do not.
Mr. Sourwine. We are not asking you to testify in any particular
way, just what your memory is.
Mr. Ungvary. I had no way of refreshing my memory.
Mr. SouR'wiNE. Do you have knowledge respecting a meeting in the
YIVICA in Cleveland in which a Mr. Levey was in attendance?
Mr. Ungvary. I have knowledge of any number of meetings there
but to pinpoint it now specifically for Mr. Levey, I am not in a posi-
tion to do so.
406 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr, SouRWiNE. Do you have recollection that he did attend such
meetings ?
Mr. Ungvary. I have recollection that he had attended some meet-
ings where I had observed him.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever attend a meeting with him at the
YMCA?
Mr. Ungvary. You mean to go there together ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. No.
Mr. Ungvary. No, I had been at meetings at the YMCA.
Mr. SouRwiNE. At which Mr. Levey was present ?
Mr. Ungvary. Well, I don't want to pinpoint it in that manner.
No, I can't recall that.
Mr. SouRwiNE, All right.
Mr. Levey, did you know Sam Pollock as a member of the Com-
munist Party, U.S.A. ?
Mr. Lea^y. I must assert my privilege against self-incrimination
under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you attend a meeting in the Nash Room of the
YMCA in Cleveland, November 15, 1951, attended by Pollock, Tussey,
and Tekla — that is Richard Tussey, Sam Pollock, and Tad Tekla?
Mr. Le\tey. I must consult counsel on this.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Surely.
Mr. Levey. Pardon me. Mr. Counsel, was this in 1951 ?
Mr. SouRWiNE. November 15, 1051.
Mr. Levey. I think I can answer it in perfect honesty, not to my
recollection.
Mr. SouR^r[NE. All right. Mr. Chairman, I should like at this
time to bring into the committee room another witness who has been
previously sworn, Mr. Tad Tekla.
May we do this ?
Senator Johnston. Bring him in.
Come around and have a seat.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Tekla, this is Senator Olin Jolinston of South
Carolina who is presiding this afternoon.
Mr. Levey. Could I ask the counsel one question ? Could I ask the
counsel about a previous question concerning the date of a meeting?
Mr. SouRwiNE. The last question was the 1951 date.
Mr. Levey. The one previous to that, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. The date I asked you about previous to that?
Mr. Levey. Concerning a YMCA meeting.
Mr. Sotjrwine. That was October 15, 1957.
Mr. Levey. Fine. Thank you, sir.
TESTIMONY OF TAD TEKLA— Resumed
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tekla, I am sure the members of the committee
regret that you have been held here so long. I can assure you we are
going to let you go this afternoon and it won't be very much longer.
Mr. Tekla. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tekla, you recall testifying earlier about a
meeting at the Nash Room of the YMCA in Cleveland?
Mr. Tekla. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine. You told us that Sergeant Ungvary had been there ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 407
Mr. SouRWiXE. Do you remember tlie date of that meeting ?
Mr, Tekla. I would say roughly October of 1957.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I believe, when we asked you about the meeting
before, we specified the date as April 8, 1957. Could it have been on
that occasion ?
Mr. Tekla. I don't have any records with me. I can't verify
the date.
Mr. SouRwiNE. No, I am not trying to put words in your mouth.
You remember you told us you had only gone to one such meeting?
Mr. Tekla. There was onl}^ one meeting. I don't remember the
date.
Mr. Sourwine. You don't remember whether it was spring or fall ?
Mr. Tekla. No, I don't.
Mr. SouRWiNE. All right, sir.
Mr. Tekla. That would be to the best of my knowledge, October.
Mr. SouRWiNE. At that meeting, w^as Sam Pollock present ?
Mr. Tekla, Yes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was Richard Tussey present ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes.
Mr. SouRWiNE. And Max Levey was present ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes,
IVIr, Sourwine. Do you see Mr. Levey in the room here ?
Mr. Tekla. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you recognize ISIr. Tekla, Mr. Levey ?
Mr. Le\^ey. I will assert my privilege against self-incrimination.
Mr. Sourwine. With this refreshment of your recollection as to
the meeting, Mr. Levey, will you tell us w^hether you attended the
meeting ?
Mr. Levey. The 1957, sir, or the 1951?
Mr. Sourwine, The meeting in 1957, the meeting as described bv
Mr. Tekla.
Mr. Levey. I must consult my counsel on that.
To the best of my recollection, sir, as I previously testified, I was
present at that meeting.
Mr. Sourwine. Now, Mr. Tekla, what was the purpose of that
meeting? You have told us before that Mr. Levey didn't hear you
testify.
Mr. Tekla. I said that the purpose of that particular meeting was
to try to form a local affiliate of a national organization called the
American Forum.
Nothing materialized at the meeting as at most luncheon meetings.
It was rather barren of results.
i\Ir. Sourwine. Mr. Levey, you remember the meeting as having
that purpose?
Mr. Le\'ey, I testified truthfully, Mr, Sourwine, that the American
Forum is a name. It didn't mean a great deal. I do recall it, I didn't
know and probably don't know right now what the exact purpose or
the intent of American Forum was, assuming that was the name, I
did understand it to be, and I am happy to give this — probably I
shouldn't, but give it gratuitously — that I was there to attend a meet-
ing and forming a new organization which somehow was a liberal,
progressive kind of organization and I attended the meeting.
408 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Tekla, you recog-nize Sergeant Ungvary ?
Mr. Tekla. Only on the basis of tlie hearsay evidence. I never had
the pleasure of meeting him.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you tell us he was at the meeting?
Mr. Tekla. People told me he was there.
Mr. Sourwine. But you did not recognize him ?
Mr. Tekla. I never did meet him.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tekla, may I introduce to you Sergeant
Ungvary ?
Mr. Ungvart. How do you do, sir ?
Mr. Sourwine. Sergeant, do you recognize Mr. Tekla ?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, I think we had an interview at your home at one
time, Mr. Tekla. I think you lived in the Glenville area.
Mr. Tekla. Oh, yes. You refresh my memory. That was the
Euclid Beach incident. That was a good many years ago.
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, a good many years ago.
Mr. Tekla. I don't believe we were ever introduced. You just
walked into my house on a Sunday morning and started asking ques-
tions. I didn't know your name then.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Tekla, do you have information respecting the
membership or nonmembership in the Fair Play for Cuba Committee,
of either Sam Pollock, Kichard Tussey, or Max Levey ?
Mr. Tekla. I do not have such information, not having been a
member, not having had access to any membership records.
Mr. Sourwine. All right, sir. Mr. Tekla, we will have a few
questions still to ask you. We will call you as soon as we are through
with Mr. Levey. That will be just a few more minutes.
Senator Johnston. Thank 3'ou for coming in.
Mr. Sourwine. Now, Mr. Levey, are you the Max Levey who was
connected with the National Conference of American Socialists ?
Mr. Levey. I was not, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. You were never connected with that organization?
Mr. Lev-ey. I was not.
Mr. Sourwine. Specifically, did you attend a meeting of the
National Conference of American Socialists at the Tudor Arms Hotel
in November of 1958 ?
Mr. Levey. I did, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. You attended this meeting in what capacity ?
Mr. Levey. As an individual observer. I don't believe, though
again this is gratuitous, I don't believe I registered for the conference.
Mr. Sourwine. Were you ever connected with the Young People's
General Assembly for Peace ?
Mr. Levey. I have never heard of the organization.
Mr. Sourwine. There was a Max Levey who sponsored a call to the
Young People's General Assembly for Peace January 5 to 7, 1951.
You say this was not you ?
Mr. Levey. Well, I don't want to perjure myself.
Mr. Sourwine. I am sure you don't.
Mr. Le\tey. You say I sponsored ?
Mr. SouRAviNE. I did not say you did. I said a Max Levey did.
This is part of my effort to separate one Max Levey from another on
the assumption there may be two.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 409
Mr. LE^^5Y. I am not at all resentful of the line of questioning. I
want to o-ive truthful testimony and I don't recall the name.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I assure you there is no ellort being made to trap
you. I am disclosing what we know of one or the other Max Levey
and trying to filter it out. I would say your testimony impresses
me as being entirely forthright. I have no reason to believe you are
not telling us the truth.
Mr. Le-v^ey. I simply do not recall the organization..
Mr. SouKwiNE. You do not know anything about the organization?
Mr. Le\^y. Would you repeat the name again for me?
Mr. SouRwiNE. The Young People's General Assembly for Peace.
Mr. Le\t2y. No, sir ; I have no recollection of such an organization.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I will state that this organization has been de-
nounced as a Communist front as reported by the Chicago Tribune on
January 4, 1951.
Well then, presumably, the Max Levey who was connected with
that organization must be some other Max Levey,
Do you know Paul Robeson ?
Mr. Le\t:y. I assert my privilege against self-incrimination.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you attend a concert on March 20, 1950, starring
Paul Robeson?
Mr. Le\t:y. Well, possibly, I should consult counsel, but I will
certainly volunteer that I attended a couple of concerts to my knowl-
edge where Robeson performed. The dates of these I would not attest
to at all.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you at the conclusion of such a concert talk
v,ith Robeson ?
JNIr. Levey. I will have to assert my privilege against self-
incrimination.
Mr. Sourwixe. Do you know Paul Robeson as a member of the
Communist Party, U.S.A. ?
Mr. Levey. Again, sir, I would assert my privilege against self-
incriniination under the fifth amendment.
Mr. SouRwiNE. If my memory serves me correctly you were assert-
ing your privilege against self-incrimination when you were testifymg
earlier in refusing to answer questions about your attendance at a
Rosenberg defense meeting in the Sterling Hotel in Cleveland, Ohio,
under the sponsorship of the American Committee for the Protection
of the Foreign Born, is that right, Mr. Levey ?
Mr. Levey. I am a little "wary on this question, but I did state
I was not a member of the American Committee for the Protection of
the Foreign Born,
Mr. SouRwiNE. That is right.
Mr. Le^ty. I remember that specific testimony.
Mr. Sourwine, You did do that and I then asked you if you had at-
tended a Rosenberg defense meeting in tlie Sterling Hotel in Cleve-
^•ind under the sponsorship of the American Committee for the
Protection of the Foreign Bom, and my memory is tluit you claimed
your fifth amendment pri^^]ege in refusing to answer.
l^Hiat is your memory on that point?
Mr. Levey. I must consult my attorney on that.
You are correct, sir, and I would reassert my privilege against self-
incrimination.
410 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. That is what I wanted to find out, if you wanted to
tell us.
As the Supreme Court has pointed out, the witness may refuse on
several occasions and on the next one decide to answer. We always
live in hope.
I presume you will also claim your privilege in refusing to answer
the question as to how you happened to go to that meeting.
Mr. Levey. Yes, I would have to assert my privilege against self-
incrimination.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are j'^ou the Max Levey who was a member of the
Cleveland Council of the Arts, Science, and Professions ?
Mr. Levey. I must consult counsel. I do remember the name of
this organization, sir.
In all honesty, I do not remember having joined that organization.
Mr. Soukwine. Did you attend a joint meeting of the Cleveland
Council of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions and the Ohio Com-
mittee To Secure Justice in the Rosenberg Case, in Cleveland in
November 1952?
Mr. Levey. Attend a joint meeting, sir?
Mr. Sourwine. Yes. Did you attend during the 10-day session,
not for the whole 10 days? There was a 10-day joint meeting. Did
you, during that meeting, attend one of the sessions or more than one?
Mr. Levey. In what year, sir ?
Mr. SouR\viNE. In November of 1952.
Mr. Le\'ey. I simply have no recollection of such a meeting.
Mr. Sourwine. And you have told us that you were never a member
of the Ohio Committee To Secure Justice in the Eosenberg Case.
Mr. Levey. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Were you ever comiected with the Progressive
Party?
Mr. Levey. Yes, sir,
Mr. Souravine. In what way ?
Mr. Levey. Just a member, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Just a memberj never an officer ?
Mr. Levey. No.
Mr. Sourwine. And 1957 you were so connected ?
Mr. Levey. In terms of dates on this question, sir, I must say it
was some time after tlie inception of the Progressive Party that I
became a member of the Progressive Party.
Mr. Sourwine. Well, I am trying to establish the duration. You
did attend a rally of the Progressive Party incident to the Progressive
Party convention in Januaiy 23, 1950, did you not ?
Mr. Levey. I would say there is a chance I did. I do not recall
any specific rally.
Mr. Sourwine. All we want is your best recollection.
Mr. Levey. I attended many rallies of the Progressive Party.
Mr. Sourwine. And you think it is conceivable that you might
still have been a member of the Progressive P;irty in 1957?
Mr. Levey. Oh, yes.
jSIr. Sourwine. Did you or do you know of any other Max Levey
connected with the Progressive Party ?
Mr. Levey. Not to my knoAvledge, sir,
Mr. Sourwine. Now, we had a question about the Excel Movie
Production Co. I am not sure the record is entirely clear.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 411
Were you ever connected in any way with a firm wliich manu-
factured or sold or distributed film and/or home movie projectors?
Mr. Levey. No, sir; I have never been connected with such.
Mr. SouKwiNE. Mr. Chairman, I think 1 have done all that we can
to clear up this question of identity. There are references in the com-
mittee files to a Max Levey which formed the basis of a number of
these questions where this witness has stated categorically that it was
not him or has made a statement which is incompatible with the idea
that he could have been that particular Max Levey.
I want to state for the record that I have no proof that he has mis-
stated in any respect, and I think the record will have to stand on
the basis of his uncontradicted testimony unless and until somebody
should come forward to say that he did not state truly, and I have
no reason to believe that this will happen.
As you have been told, Mr. Levey, the committee and its staff, under
its rules are not in position to disclose what takes place in an executive
session without a vote of the committee authorizing this. But you
are at liberty to do so and you are at liberty to tell Mr. Simon what has
been said here and inasmuch as you have lost your job because of Mr.
Simon's misconception of the implications of the subpena, I hope you
will tell him and it would not be improper for you to suggest to Mr.
Simon that if he wishes to do so, he can get in touch with the com-
mittee, explain the circumstances, and ask for an expression from the
committee respecting your testimony.
Now I cannot speak for the committee, but I know it is the purpose
of this committee always to be fair with its witnesses and my guess
is that if he makes a request like that he will get an expression from
the committee in reply.
NoAv it would take a majority action of the coimnittee to do it, but
I think the majority of the committee would do so.
Mr. Levey. Thank you.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I appreciate your coming here.
Senator Johnston. We certainly appreciate your coming and the
testimony you have given us.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You may be excused, sir, from the subpena.
Mr. Day. That excuses me also, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. Very good.
TESTIMONY OF TAD TEKLA— Resumed
(Questioning was commenced at 3 :40 p.m.)
]\Ir. SonnviNE. Mr. Tekla lias been sworn, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Tekla, we ran into a situation with another witness which ap-
parently involved some question of identity and it appears that this
witness might not be the same man referred to in certain information
which has come to the committee. I want to be sure that we avoided
that question of identity in the case of any other witnesses.
And with the preface and with the further statement that in asking
you this question I don't mean to imply there is anything whatso-
ever vrrong about a man being known to different people by one or more
different names, but I want to ask you if you have on occasion been
known as Ladislas Tekla?
Mr. Tekla. That is my full name.
412 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SonRWiNE. And have you been known as Ladislas Joseph Tekla ?
Mr. Tekla. That also is my name.
Mr. SouKWiNE. That is still your name; and as Ladimir James
Balista ?
Mr. Tekla. Now, this I believe is the listing on the official records
of city hall. I might say for the record that as far as I am concerned
there is some error, due to the fact that the doctor who reported my
birth slightly twisted the name. I have been informed that that is
exactly what happened. I have never used the name Ladimir nor
James.
And incidentally I might add that the date is also wrong. If you
recall yesterday when you asked me my birthday I gave you the month
and the year, 1 did not give you the day because to the best of my
knowledge I was born on the 20th and the city of Cleveland has me
down as the loth. I used the 20th ; but legally I suppose I am wrong.
I was too young to remember the details.
Mr. SouEwiNE. Have you also been known as Thaddeus Tekla ?
Mr. Tekla. I have not used that.
Mr. SoIJR^VINE. And if someone used that, it was a matter of mis-
spelling on their part ?
Mr. Tekla. A lot of people misspell the name ; most do.
Mr. Soukwine. And have you used Thaddeus J. Tekla ?
Mr. Tekla. No, I never used the middle initial J.
Mr. SouRwiNE. So anyone who inserted that was in error ?
Mr. Tekla. That is right.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Were you ever a member of the American League
for Peace and Democracy ?
Mr. Tekla. No, sir. 1 testified yesterday that I was a member of
a predecessor organization but was out of it long before it became this
particular organization.
Mr. SouEwiNE. The committee is informed from a usually reliable
source, not however on the basis of sworn testimony, that there was
a Tad Tekler on the roles of the American League for Peace and
Democracy. This, of course, is possible of explanation. The fact is,
they were carrying a membership list which contained the names of the
members of the predecessor organization ?
Mr. Tekla. That is right, sir.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. But I want to ask you : Do you know or have you
ever known of another Tad Tekla ?
Mr. Tekla. No, sir.
Mr. SoLTRwiNE. Did you ever know of another man named Balista
with the same first name as yours?
Mr. Tekla. No, sir.
Mr. SoTTRwiNE. Mr. Tekla, I have no further questions to ask you.
I know that you have been put to considerable trouble in coming here,
and I know that the witness fee that we are allowed by law to pay
you probably will not compensate you for the loss of time involved.
I can only say you have been of service to the committee and we appre-
ciate your frankness in answering and we are grateful to you for
comnig
Senator Johnston. And I certainly appreciate your straightfor-
wardness, too.
Mr. Tekla. Thank you, Senator. I have done nothing illegal. I
have got a clean slate.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 413
Mr. SouRwiNE. I liave called attention to the fact that if a man is
called as a witness here, it does not mean he has done anything illegal
bnt that he is believed to have information that might be of value to
the committee. In your case that proved to be true.
(Wliereupon, at 8:55 p.m., interrogation of Mr. Tekla was
concluded.)
TESTIMONY OF HERMAN KIRSCH
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Kirsch, we are sorry to have kept you so long.
Mr. Kirsch, do you know the gentleman on my left ?
Senator Johnston. I imagine his attorney should be identified for
the record.
Mr. SouRWiNE. This is Mr. Faulkner, his counsel.
Mr. Faulkner. Before we proceed, Mr. Senator, may I raise ob-
jection at this time to anyone being present in this room except au-
thorized personnel of the subcommittee. I think these are executive
sessions and under the rules are secret and on that basis I object to
anyone being here except authoi'ized personnel and, of course, your-
self again.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Can I be heard, Mr. Chairman ?
Senator Johnston. 1 overrule that argument for the simple reason
that you are mindful this is an executive session and when the com-
mittee thinks it is necessary for someone else other than a member of
the committee to attend, we ask him to come in, to be present, I think
then that there is an entirely different situation.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I merely want to make the point no one is here
except
Mr. Faulkner. Well, that may be, but in any event I make my ob-
jection for the record.
Senator Johnston. You have made it for the record and I overrule
you. We only have witnesses here that have testified on the subject
matter before this particular time.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Faulkner, with regard to your question on the
quorum this morning, have you had an opportunity to examine this
little pamphlet of the rules which contain the information ?
Mr. Faulkner. I have not really examined it too carefully.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You will find the resolutions to which I refer on
page 8 fixing the quorum as one for the purpose of executive session.
Now, Mr. Kirsch, do you recognize this gentleman on my left ?
Mr. Kirsch. I believe you asked me that question this morning.
Mr. Sourwine. I did.
Mr. Kirsch. And I answered, I am compelled to decline to answer
this question on constitutional grounds on the grounds not to be a
witness against myself.
Mr. Sourwine. I w^ill ask you. Sergeant, do you recognize Mr.
Kirsch ?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Will you tell us the occassions on which you re-
member having seen Mr. Kirsch before today ?
Mr. Ungvary. The last occasion I saw Mr. Kirsch was on June 3,
1961, in the clubroom of the Cleveland Public Auditorium during a
meeting sponsored by the Cleveland Committee for Fair Play for
Cuba Committee.
64139— 61— pt.
414 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Kirsch, you have heard that testimony?
Mr. Kirsch. Yes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you pre^sent at that meeting ?
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that question on the same
previous grounds.
Mr. Ungvary. Previous to that affair on 2/5/61 tliere was a meeting
of the Cleveland Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee and.
shortly after that, I am not certain of the date, there was another
meeting at the Epworth Methodist Church sponsored by the same
committee.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You observed him at both of these meetino-s?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, I observed him at three meetings.
Mr. SouRWiNE. The one you spoke of first and then the two?
Mr. Ungvary. That is correct.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You have heard this testimony, Mr. Kirsch ?
Mr. Kirsch. Yes, I have heard this testimony.
Mr. SoiTRWiNE. Is this testimony untrue or inaccurate in any way ?
Mr. Kirsch. I must be compelled to decline to answer that question
on the same previous grounds.
Mr. SouRwiNE. "\Yliich includes the fifth amendment, not to be
a witness against yourself ?
Mr. Kirsch. Not to be a witness against myself, right. "
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. Do you have any knowledge, Sergeant, as to
whether Mr. Kirsch is a member of the Fair Play for Cuba Com-
mittee?
Mr. Ungvary. I have no definite knowledge that he is a member.
Mr. Sotjrwine. Very good. Did he, to j-our knowledge, partici-
pate locally in any of these three meetings which you say he attended ?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, he did.
Mr. SotJRWiNE. In all of them or in one or more ?
Mr. Ungvary. In one meeting at the Euclid — -pardon me, Epworth
Methodist Church, at which time he participated in a question and
answer period.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Were you present at that meeting?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes.
Mr. SouRWiNE. In w^hat way did Mr. Kirsch participate?
Mr. Ungvary. Mr. Kirsch asked a question to be answered by Mr.
Tussey, who was debating the question of Cuba.
Mr. SouRwiNE. ^Yliat position did Mr. Tussey take in this debate,
pro-Cuba or^
Mr. Ungvary. Mr. Tussey was pro-Cuba.
Mr. SotJRWiNE. You mean pro-Castro ?
Mr. Ungvary. Pro-Castro.
Mr. SouRwiNE. And what position did Mr. Kirsch take then ?
Mr. Ungvary. As I recall Mr. Kirsch asked a question about the
labor situation and the unemployment situation in Cuba under Castro.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Kirsch, do you remember asking that question
at that meeting ?
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer the question on the same
previous grounds, sir.
Mr. SoTTRWiNE. Do you recall anything more, Sergeant, about Mr.
Kirsch's participation in that meeting ?
Mr. Ungvary. Not at that particular meeting.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 415
Mr. SouRwiNE. What else can you tell us about Mr. Kirscli ?
Mr. Ungvary. I have seen Mr, Kirsch over a period of years when
I was detailed on assignments covering meetings that were publicly
advertised as closed meetings of various organizations lilce the
Socialist Workei-s, Communist Party, and various front organiza-
tions
Mr. SouRWiNE. Let's not get mixed up here. Have you seen Mr.
Kirsch at meetings of the Socialist Workers' Party ?
Mr. Ungvary. I believe I have.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know whether 3'ou have or not ?
Mr. Ungvary. I could not pinpoint any date. I covered any number
of meetings that was sponsored by the Socialist Workers' Party but
I couldn't specify the date.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What you really mean is that you cannot say he
took part at any of those meetings ^
]\Ir. Ungvary. Xo, I couldn't say that.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you see Mr. Kirsch at any meetings of the
Connnunist Party, U.S.A. ?
^Ir. Ungvary. Yes, sir. As I recall, the last meeting was — it was
at 13700 Euclid Avenue. The speaker was the editor in chief of the
Worker, Mr. Jackson.
Mr. SouR"wiNE. AVlien was this ?
Mr. Ungvary. This was in 1061. I don't recall the exact date.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you at that meeting'^
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. And you saw ]Mr. Kirsch there ?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he participate in the meeting in any way?
Mr. Ungvary. No, other than being present.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Kirsch, you heard this testimony. Is it inac-
curate in any way, to your knowledge ?
Mr. Kirsch. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you at the Communist Party meeting which
has been specified ?
]Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. SouR'sviNE. Have you attended other meetings of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that on the constitutional
grounds of free speech.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know of any other meetings attended by
Mr. Kirsch, Sergeant ?
Mr. Ungvary. No, I can't recall.
(Editor's Note. — The following affidavit of Sergeant Ungvary, sub-
sequently received was ordered into the record at tliis point :)
Affidam;t of Sgt. John J. Ungvary
State of Ohio,
County of Cuyahoga, ss:
To Whom It May Concern:
Before me, Stephen Krauek, Attorney at Law and Notary Public, personally
appeared John J. Ungvary, Sergeant of Police, Cleveland Police Department,
who first being duly sworn according to law, deposes and says that he appeared
before the United States Senate Subcommittee on Internal Security, Washington,
D.C., in response to a subpena, on June 13, 1961.
416 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Affiant further says that at said hearing on Internal Security, he testified that
Herman Kirsch was present at a meeting held at 13700 Euclid Avenue, Cleve-
land, Ohio, at which affair, James Jackson, Editor-in-Chief of The Worker, was
the principal speaker.
Further, that upon returning to Cleveland, Ohio and reviewing his notes and
records, affiant discovered that the record of his testimony as aforesaid is in-
accurate in that, to wit, the correct address of the particular meeting at which
Herman Kirsch was obser\-ed by the affiant was Euclid Avenue and East ISth
Street (the former Euclid Avenue Baptist Church). At this meeting the afore-
said Herman Kirsch acted as an usher. The date of this meeting was March
25, 1961. This is not the same meeting at which James Jackson was the prin-
cipal speaker.
Furtlier, affiant says that after refreshing his recollection from notes made at
the time, he can testify that aforesaid Herman Kirsch was present at a debate
sponsored by the Unitarian Fellowship for Social Justice of the Unitarian So-
ciety of Cleveland at the Epworth Methodist Church, East 107th and Chester
Avenue on March 3. K>61, on the subject "The Castro Government — is it good for
Cuba?". Mrs. Leta Wood, former resident and business woman in Cuba, and at
the time of the debate Director of Publicity, Notre Dame College for Women, de-
bated the negative side of this proposition and Richard Tussey, Chairman of the
Cleveland Chapter, Fair Play for Cuba Committee, debated the affirmative side.
Gerald Gordon, Secretary for the Unitarian Fellowship for Social Justice, made
arrangements for the rental of the hall, and for the moderator, and took over
the meeting, introducing the debaters and the moderator. It was evident that
the debate was rigged to favor Tussey. Herman Kirsch and Jerome Joseph
were in the audience, and directed questions to Tussey, which were obviously re-
hearsed. Others recognized in the audience at this meeting included Anita
Reinthaler, Morris Hybloom, Milo Mortz, Joseph Petras and his wife, and
Gerald Gordon. An automobile bearing Ohio license A F 4323, listed to Herman
Kirsch at 4332 East 84th Street for a 1959 Rambler was observed at the location
of the meeting while the meeting was going on.
Affiant further says that to the best of his knowledge, the record of all other
testimony presented by him at said hearing on Internal Security, is true and
correct.
Affiant further says that he is attaching a report containing further infor-
mation of other activities of said Herman Kirsch in Cleveland, Ohio.
Further affiant sayeth not.
John J. Ungvaby.
Swoni to before me and subscribed in my presence this 11th day of August
1961, by the said John J. Ungvary, Sergeant of Police, Cleveland, Ohio.
Stephen Kbanek, Notary Public.
My commission expires March 3, 1964.
TESTIMONY OF HERMAN KIRSCH— Resumed
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Kirsch, did you ever collect any money for the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that question on the same
previous grounds.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You pay dues, do you not, to the Fair Play for
Cuba Committee ?
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that question also.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you visited Cuba ?
Mr. Kirsch. I must decline to answer that question on the same
previous grounds.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, Mr. Chairman, I have no more questions of
Mr. Kirsch. I think he may be excused from the subpena.
Senator Johnston. You are excused.
Mr. Kirsch. Mr. Chairman, may I make a short statement ?
Senator Johnston. How long is it ?
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 417
Mr. KiRSCH. It is 5 minutes, less than 5 minutes — half a minute.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you want to answer some of the questions you
did not answer?
Mr. KiRSCn. No, sir.
Senator Johnston. Is it in reference to the questions ?
Mr. KiRSCH. It is in reference to the questions.
Senator Johnston. What have you got to enlighten the committee
Avith ?
Mr. KiRSCH. I can't hear.
Senator Johnston. What further have you then to enlighten the
committee with ?
Mr. KiRSCH. I would like to read these two paragraphs here that
I just wrote out outside.
From the 2 days of hearings at which I was interrogated it is my
opinion that this committee is constituted for the purpose of intimi-
dating people and not for any legislative purpose
Senator Johnston. Now, let us not — if you want to come and
malign the committee, we do not want to hear it.
Mr. KiRSCH. Now, in reference to my own questioning: This com-
mittee learned at the very early stages of questioning that I would
refuse to answer any questions concerning my political beliefs and
associations, and its persistence could only be interpreted as and
intended for witch-hunting privileges.
Mr. SouRW'iNE. As has been pointed out, a man may repeatedly
refuse to answer a question and on another occasion answer it. The
committee itself has had this experience. We always live in hope.
Do you have anything further to say ?
Mr. KiRSCH. That is all.
Senator Johnston. Very well. I think you may be excused.
(Whereupon, at 4:10 p.m., the interrogation of Mr. Kirsch was
concluded.)
TESTIMONY OF JOHN J. UNGVAKY— Resumed
(Interrogation of Mr. Ungvary was commenced at 4:12 p.m. He
had been sworn previously.)
Mr. SouRwiNE. Sergeant, how long have you been a member of
the police department in Cleveland ?
Mr. Ungvary. Since September 1, 1937.
Mr. SouRwiNE. And how long have you been with the so-called
subversion squad?
Mr. Ungvary. Since approximately March 1940.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Which is actually, contrarj' to the implication of
one of our witnesses, an ant isub version squad.
In connection with your duties on that squad, have you had occasion,
or various occasions, to survey the activities of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee and its members?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You have been in attendance at meetings and you
have been present outside meetings of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee ?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What is this admission card ?
418 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COIVIMITTEE
Mr. Ungvary. That admission card was for a meeting held June 3
at clubroom B at the Cleveland Public Auditorium.
The arrangements for that particular meeting were made by Richard
Berlin Tussey. The previous advertisement for that particular meet-
ing appeared in a full-page paid advertisement of the Cleveland
Call and Post.
Mr. SouRwiNE. This is a newspaper in Cleveland ?
Mr. Ungvary. That is correct.
Mr. SouRwiNE. AYliat kind of a newspaper, daily ?
Mr. Ungvary. It is a Xegro weekly newspaper.
Senator Johnston. What is the name?
Mr. Ungvary. The Cleveland Call and Post.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Where did you get this ticket ?
Mr. Ungvary. This ticket was given to me by the usher at my
request after they were turned over to hun.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You bought it and paid for it ?
Mr. Ungvary. This ticket I did not pay for.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You did pay for a ticket?
Mr. Ungvary. I did ]:iay for a ticket on a different occasion.
Mr. SouRwiNE. To whom did you make that payment ?
Mr. Ungvary. The payment I made, $1, to Mrs. Jean Tussey and
my partner also purchased a ticket from Mrs. Jean Tussey for the
affair held 3/25/61.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Which was a function of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee ?
Mr. Ungvary. That was a meeting of the Fair for Cuba Committee.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mrs. Tussey was selling tickets at the door?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, she was.
Mr. SouRWiNE. "\^niat was the name of your partner who also pur-
chased a ticket ?
Mr. Ungvary. John T. Hatton.
Mr. SouRWiNE. He is also a member of the subversive squad?
Mr. Ungvary. That is correct.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, I don't believe that the printing of
this ticket in the record would accomplish any particular purpose.
Senator Johnston. I don't think so.
Mr. SouRwaNE. Now, what about the ad which you mentioned?
Mr. Ungvary. Pertaining to this particular advertisement — we had
a telephone call from the Cleveland Public Library in wliich they
informed us that Communist literature was being distributed in front
of the library and patrons of the library were under the impression
it was being sponsored by the library.
This was on a Saturday afternoon. So, as a result, I went down-
town. There were two 18-year-old girls pointed out to me as distrib-
uting this particular advertisement which is a duplicate of that
wliich appears in the Call and Post.
Mr. SouRwiNE. This is a reprint, then, of a full-page ad which ap-
peared in the Cleveland Call and Post?
Mr. Ungvary. That is correct, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Does the date show there ?
Mr. Ungvary. The date does appear there, I believe. Yes, sir, it
does.
3
tttjiuv. liiv It. wr
mfTUMllALL uio rait
fACf 111
NEVER BEFORE . .
has the American Public been so deliberately deceived
and deprived of accurate information as in recent months
concerning the situation in Cuba!
We were told that Cuban charges about the United
States preparing an invasion against the Castro government
were "ridiculous" and "false" and that planes attacking
Cuba from an American-financed base in Guatemala, with
Cuban insignias painted on. were actually defectors from
Castro's Air Force.
We were told that the people of Cuba were all
eagerly awaiting an opportunity to overthrow Fidel Castro
and that they were worse off than under Batista... This
i»hole page could not begin to enumerate the scandalous
falsehoods that we have been exposed to.
Above all, the incorrect labeling of what is going
on in Cuba as "Communism" has been used as a smoke
screen to prevent a rational discussion of the attempts of
a country, ravaged by Inhuman colonial exploitation and a
succession of oppressive, corrupt dictators, to transform
itself into an independent state able to provide a decent
life for its inhabitants.
Economic Aid
Actiollv, Cibo occeptad tcoioaic tid fre« SovUI
bloc (entries oilr wh<i we rafisad to kelp ktr ii tk«
■■■•■se boitle sk« loiicktd ogoiist heptlais itirvotlei,
•laaploriiiait, illltaracy oid disaosa. The fact that great
improvement has already been made in the lot of the
average Cuban, despite continuous external harassment,
has been almost entirely blacked out by our press.
Before the Cuban Revolution only 11% of the people drank
milk, 4% ate meat and 2% consumed eg£s. Unemployment
involving one million of the total population of six million
kept 25% of the work force in enforced idleness and
chronic despair.
Since January 1959 Castro's government has
virtually ended unemployment; abolished racial discrimination;
increased and diversified food production; built 25,000 new
low-cost housing units; added 50% more hospital beds;
provided free medical and dental care; increased classrooms
by 10,000; raised wages; reduced rents and utility rates;
established factories working threee shifts producing shoes,
clothes and food products and expects to eliminate all
illiteracy before the end of this year.
Self-Defense
Ciko BKaptad ■ilitary aid fro* tka coiitrlai of tha
Sevlat bloc oily whai tba saw tbal it was a aattar of sorviTol
apiist tka noiBtiig tbraat of iavosioi. Cai airoia daiy tkat
tka traa facts of tka racait araad iivosioi— orgaiiiad.dlractod
aad fiiaicad ky tka U.S. Caitral litalllgaaca Agaicy-provida
ooipia iistKicoiioi for walcoaiag sack oid? Cuban acceptance
HEAR!
Dave
Dellinger,
nottd pacifist wrlttr
and adifor who hos vi-
sil«d Cubo rcccnil)' to
<Tud)r iht si luotion
it.«rt. SATURDAY,
JUNE 3, 8 PM.
PUBLIC AUDITORIUM
CLUB ROOM 'B'
Enfronc* ot E. 6th,
Ond Loktsid*
ADMISSION: S1.00
STUDENTS: JO
For The
Record
ahti tfc* odvcftl »t Hm R««clvtl»H9ry govvm-
>n*ni Cattfo r«lt«fst*d Cubo'i p«atli«i:
C.4pt$altim »4<rifitat mmt^tb^ Com-
mtmttl ilMtt by ilt tataliUrimm coact^ s«c-
riftcri lh» rigblf «/ mmi. TisI (s uiy irr do
mot ir" '"'^ «^ W '^»- F.ac^ ptofit*
mm- -.UK pohticai orgamizatio*
ot.: rti):. nol forctd mpon itrm
'j: •■( II an »mtfmomo^\ Cuban
Attict* 5. Ptttocot to At Haiaua Pa<l.
ngntJ h '*• f- '■ ''*^''- ""'"^ *> '*•
StMMe Jmly VJ i^ ' ■ "Eodt ceM(roctl«« ((at*
(hatl...w»« all o»p'flp»lo*« m0cn% to ^«*««tt
ony p«r*Mt.it«tl«ao' o' olian. troNi ^1ib«rat»-
ly p«fiic>altn9 ir '«• »r*paratta<i, «rfaiiiia-
ttofi ar carryiny ou' of • lailtMry •ntcfprii*
*Ol ha* at it* fjr^tm th« irartinf. praatef-
itig Of itfppertlny o* civil itrlfo in anetti«f
eentractin^ ttota, •Aalhat »t nol t(t« fov«ni-
m««*t •( r*i* l«tt»» k-o* baan rwcafiiiiW.'
ptts RtiXilmlloamy «oi«aca^«ss«rf«rf that
lh« CI A had hv •» fall potitttai amd op-
tratiomai command of Ibt prtparaltomi for a
landing la Ca^
*.. Itt vlvtaH't^lmtiomaty Commtii uai
Matd to hs%-t vir^^h h^rm k*td captivt hy
It* CJ.K for%»m'ai dayn afiw* l*# Apnt I?
aliack btgm.
'U it mndtnltoJ that Or. Hiro CrnidomO't
siatrm*ml amno^tnc ikt attack kad b*n
filmed and racct^tJ taxtral d^t aitad of
timt im >ri< Yorfc
'Mrmhftt of ttr eommeil teara takom ^
C.I. A. agrnts to «>-;i,,# naar Iht dtaclivoitd
Opa-Locka .Mrpan in florida on April 16.
T** «r<afr«fS '.' rAr comnril t-tmd abont
Ih* imvatibn Ia9 t'.^'t a/tr' il bwgam ahtm
ont of Iktm hapffntd to tmrn on tha radio.'
Samator •«yw| to't, in lit I .$. Senaia.
April 24; '..tT«««»t t» «mdi tha U.S. It a
porty and tka Ji^iiic tMtvta* whidi b«*«
baam cit«d claarfy ora intand^ to prohibit
tha kirtd of octivttr "c* baiag corrlad an by
Cuban axlias- T« V" l^'* acttvrty avan ea-
van support li of o cij*c* with tha hypocrisy
an<Jcr"'ei»m for •^.ch th* U.S. i% conitonlly
danouncitf th* $•*,*• Uniw in th« UN vid
alM«A*fa FfaaJo*" t worth »»e mv<t» as a
haa»«n systaM at ^•mtnmant for as to iwr.
randaf any of ow ^vcileM to a polica itoto
■yston infha fi«U offoroi^ pallcy-.-whythaf
it il corriad oat thnsigh tha C.I. A. or any
othar ogancy...*
Sammior Staft^ »C Yoamg. Ham%laltar
No. 10, M«>. IHb'Coodfndgmaml calls /or
tie pTtiidtnt miCongrtis to makt avttp-
%ng cbangfs iJma CI.A^Jfrom thr top doum.
It ii »ou tvidmi^thai fldtl CatHo bat iht
Muppofi of tba rMlft and fit, paopla in Cmba;
also, tka tmppaif! "oj/ of iht paoplr and
gopormmant of/ttM* of Latin AMoricOn re-
pnbhcs'
of this aid has been compared to the case of Yugoslavia, to
whom we give military aid although she is not exactly a
capitalist country.
The Castro administration has undoubtedly made
errors, as have all revolutions, including ours of 1776. Inter-
estingly, more refugees, both numerically and percentagewise.^
fled our country after the American Revolution than have
deserted Cuba since the fall of Batista. And as for elections,
the American patriots held no presidential election for seven
years after the War for Independence had bemwon.
Why was there no hue and cfy for "free elections^
under Batista? It has been conservatively estimated that in
the last seven years of his rule there were more than 20.00(
political murders. All of this was ignored by Washington se
long as Batista fostered and protected the right of American
corporations to exploit the resources and people of that small'
island. 90 miles off our shore.
On the other hand the authoritative South American
correspondent. Carleton Beals. wrote in April 1961 that under
the revolutionary government.' [ixcept for Batista's hangmef
so far as I can determine no non-military or non-police person^
has been executed unless caught arms in hand or committing
overt violence."
Denounce C.I.A,
We deplore and denounce the use of our tax money
for carrying out cloak- and -dagger operations against Cuba.
The attacks launched by the C.I.A. are contrary to internation
al law. to the United Nations charter, to our treaty ohigatjons,
and to the principles of decency which will have to be obser
ved by all countries if life is to continue on this planet.
We appeal to oir govtriHiit to restore dlploaotk
n4 trade relotiois, oid the right of AMoricaas to travel la
Cibo; to offer ecoaooilc and techaical oid, so that Cibo coi
follow 01 iodepeideot (oerse aid coitiioe her ■oterlol prof .
r«ss; Old to recogiize the sovereigoty of the Cohoi govero.
■•■t Old its right to regelate its owo oHiirs oodor the
priaciple of self-detorMiootioi.
We must act now to prevent any further economic
or military harassment of a government which has the
allegiance of the vast majority of its people.
We must let our government know that we want
an end to the "brinkmanship" pohcies that endanger the
peace of this hemisphere -and the world.
Help Spread the truth 9t>out Cubo
Let tli« President, Congress, your newspapers, your neighbors know
Ihol ,ou wont foir ploy lor Cubo. Sign this odvertisement ond send it to
Woshington .
Contribute to the cost of this odvenisemenl, wbich is being poid lor
br Clevelond Foir Ploy members ond supporters. Reprints ore oroiloble to
cor>trioutors.
Subscribe to Foir Ploy Newsletter. Join Foir Plo, lot Cubo Commil-
Tki feir Pli. for Ctke CiBMlttia It • tte-.relH Aaerkii eriailxlHtl wbkt fViapli te (eabot tU clBpilfa
il ileidar e.eliit lb. Cibii ftveliKel. II bas _,,, itn .,000 ■•■ben, wM 11 ihaptan le U. J. ilHei,
4 II Cieedo ted ilerftil teeetlli ei aorf Ifcei 40 eilversHT ceapitei. In »■!. tairri ol iKeat Is lb«
(ealilbitlen el leli-alidid tBitUlii.
Clevelcmd Chapter
Fair Play For Cuba Committee
P. O. Box 5347, Cleveland 1, Ohio
Audo Romino, Socrotory
I Cleveland Chapter
1 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
P. O. Box 5347
Cleveland 1, Ohio
n ' •nclose % to t>«lp pay for th« cosi of this odvertis*-
m«ni . Pl«ase s»nd me .^___ reprints .
[J I enclose iSM. Enroll me as o in«niber of tKe Foir Ploy for
Cubo Committee end send me Foir Ploy newsletter ot no extro
cKorge.
a
Nome
I enclose J5.00 for one yeor's subscription to Foir Ploy new
leHer.
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 419
Mr. SouRwiNE. What is that date (
Mr. Ungvart. That is Saturday. May 20. 1961. . '■
Mr. SouRwiXE. Z\Ir. Chairman, if Ave are going to discuss this ad,
may it be offered for the record in full '.
Senator Johnstox. Yes.
Mr. SouRwixE. I notice that the back of the ad contains printing
so in that it is folded once and folded again to reduce its size one-
quarter, it has what reads like a headline. Might I ask that this be
ordered photostated and reproduced in the record?
Mr. UxGVART. If you so desire I can leave that with. you.
Senator Johxstox. All right.
Mr. SouRwix'E. AVe can photostat that and return it to you.
(A reproduction of the advertisement is inserted before this page.)
Exhibit 69-A (Back of advertisement)
WHY DID THE PLAIN
DEALER, THE PRESS
AND THE HEIGHTS
SUN-PRESS REFUSE
TO PUBLISH THIS
PAID POLITICAL AD?
READ IT AND
FIND OUT!
Mr. Ux'GVART. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwixE. Xow, tell us how you got this and the surrounding
circumstances.
Mr. UxCtVary. Two girls were pointed out to me as distributing this
literature. They handed me this literature.
I asked the girl what her name was and she said she was Sue Hol-
brook. 18 years old. a student of Antioch College.
The second girl gave her name as Carol Bayliss, 18. a student of
Antioch College.
420 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE
Mr. SouRwiNE. That is H-a-y-1-i-s-s?
Mr. Unovary. As far as I know.
Mr. SouRwiNE. She did not spell it for you ?
Mr. Unovary She did not.
Mr. SouRwiNE. And Carol could be C-a-r-o-1?
Mr. Unovary. That is correx?t.
I asked the mrls the purpose of distributing this literature and
she said that they were entitled to an explanation from the news-
papers as to why they refused to accept the advertisement. I in-
formed them
(At this point the proceedings were temporarily suspended due to
a telephone call.)
Mr. Unovary (continuing). I infonned them that the newspapers
did not have to accept the ads.
She then stated that if I wanted any more information as to their
activities I should see the leader of the group who was one block
wast. I walked one block west wliich is our public square and I
observed Mr. Richard Berlin Tussey.
Mr. SouRwixE. That is the man you have identified here?
Mr. Unovary. That is correct, sir.
Mr. SouR^VINE. All right.
Mr. Unovary. And I asked Mr. Tussey what the purpose of this
was and I explained to him that the girls thought that the newspapers
owed them an explanation. He said definitely not, the newspapers
had every right in the world to accept the ad or not accept the ad,
that was the freedom of the press. But in view of the fact they did
not accept this, this was his means of bringing it to the attention of
the general public.
And with that he asked two men who had some of this literature to
go across the street in front of the Higbee Department Store and dis-
tribute some of this material.
On return to the office T made some inquiiT as to the listing of Post
Office Box 6347 as listed here [indicating], and I was informed by
the postal authorities that the application made for this box was
made by Auda Romine and that Richard Berlin
Mr. SouRwiNE. What is that fii-st name?
Mr. Unovary. Auda, A-u-d-a, and the last name is Romine,
R-o-m-i-n-e.
Mr. Sourwine. Now, lliat is the box number and tlie name which
appears at the bottom of tiie ad?
Mr. Unovakv. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Soi'RWiNK. All right.
Mr. Un(;vary. And I was informed ho made application for this
box iind that Richard Berlin Tussey had also signed the ap|)lication.
Mr. SoiTRWiNE. Sergeant, do you lia\e any information respecting
th(^ size of the incDibership of the Fair Play for Cuba (^ommifteo
chapter in Cleveland^
Mr. Unovary. No, sir. At the last meeting on June 3 I got a com-
plete count of the persons that had attended. There; were 87 in at-
tendance; that is, not counting our confidiMii ial informant and the
newspaper reporter that wius in attendance unbeknownst to them.
Mr. SoiRwiNK. What paper was he reporting for?
Mr. Uncjvary. The newspaper reporter was the reporter for the
Universe Bulletin l)nt later there was a newsj)aj)er woman and a
FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COMMITTEE 421
cameraman who I am sure is known to Mr. Tussey and the othei-s and
they represent the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The other newsman, do you know his name?
Mr. Ungvary. The newspaper woman was Mary Hirshfield who
is Latin American editor for the Plain Dealer. The man with her
is the photographer whose name I don't know, but the reporter for the
Universe Bulletin is James Flannery.
Mr. SouRWiNE. F-1-a-n-n-e-r-y ?
Mr. Ungvary. Yes, that is correct.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You do not know how many of these 80-odd persons
were members, do you ?
Mr. Ungvary. No, sir, I do not. There was, incidentally, an
advance sale of 250 tickets, with 87 persons counted.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you have any information respecting names of
the office 1^ of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee chapter in Cleveland ?
Mr. Ungvary. Actually the only name I would have knowledge of
is Richard Tussey as chairman of the Cleveland chapter.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I believe you testified you thought he was still chair-
man but you could not be sure whether he left that position ?
Mr. Ungvary. I have the impression he resigned as of yesterday,
and I have no knowledge of that .
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you have any information i-especting any
individuals in Cleveland who had gone to Cuba under the auspices
of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee?
Mr. Ungvary. I do know that Richard Tussey had gone; Auda
Romine had gone and Richard Tussey had taken his oldest daughter
on one occasion and I am almost certain — now, I am not positive at the
moment without refreshing my memory — but Mrs. Tussey had been
there on at least one occasion.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you have any information respecting the con-
nection if any between the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in Cleve-
land and the Communist Party ?
Mr. Ungvary. The connection, in my opinion, would be in this
respect :
That Gerald Gordon, who is Ohio State chairman of the Labor
Youth league — the youth branch of the party while it was function-
ing—arranged for the debate at the Epworth Methodist Church and
at this debate there was a mimeographed sheet of paper distributed
that if any individuals were interested in obtaining speakers on the
question of Cuba, they were to contact a certain telephone number.
The telephone number was listed to Gerald Gordon at his known
residence.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Gordon was at that time a functionary of the
Communist Party in Cleveland ?
Mr. Ungvary. Do you mean at the time of the debate ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes.
Mr. Ungvary. Well, I have no way of knowing that because in
the Cleveland area they are not functioning as membei-s of the
Communist Partv.
Mr. Sourwine'. Well, how was it you identified Mr. Gordon with
respect to his Communist connections (
Mr. Ungvary. I had observed Mr. Gordon over a period of years
at publicly advertised meetings of the Communist Party, closed and
422 FAIR PLAY FOR CUBA COJMMITTEE
secret meetings of the Communist Party and at various conventions
with hibor youth — the Labor Youth League — and the Coniiuuuist
Party and various fronts.
Mr. SoiTRWixE. You have no question about his membersliip in the
Coiumunist Party (
Mr. I'xovAKv. In my niiiul there is no (juestiou but that lie is a
communist.
Mr. SouRwixE. Might we go oti' the record a moment, sir i
Senator Joiixstox. Certaiidy.
( Discussion oli' the record.)
Mr. SouRwixE. Sergeant, in the meetings of the Fair Phiy foi- Cuba
Committee which you have attended and observed have you noticed
members of the Connnunist Party, f .S.A. in attendance ?
Mr. T'xc.vAiiY. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouiuvixE. Have vou noticetl members of the Socialist "Workers
Party in attendance?
Mr. Ux'GVAKY. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwixE. Has it seemed strange to you that members of these,
two j^arties which ordinarily iiglit each other are cooperating in the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee^
Mr. UxGVARY. Yes, sir. to me it seemed very strange. They ap-
peared on very friendly terms. My past experience has been that
those two factions have always been feuding.
^Tr. Soi'RwiXE. How do you explain this cooperation in helping
ih(> Fair Play for Cuba Connnittee ?
Mr. Ungvary. On several occasions there have been incidents where
they would unite to put over a certain point and then sexered their
i-elations until another occasion.
1 was wondering if thev had decided to burv the hatchet, as vou
might say, or is the meeting materializing that they had at the Tudoi-
Arms Hotel where they got together members of the Communist
Party, the Socialist AVorkers' Party, and the various socialistic organi-
zations and leftist organizations, where they tried to unite the one
large grouj).
Air. SouRwiXE. Do you think this may be evidence of the united
front technicjue?
Mr. I^XGVAia'. T haxc no positi\'c iiit'oiiiiat ion in that respect but ii
was my impression that perhaps it is materializing.
Afi". SoiRWixE. Do vou have anv other information which you think
M'ould be helpful to this committee m regard to the Fair Play lor
Ciiba (\)mmittee (
Mr. Lnovarv. Xo,sir,at this moment no. I have not had an o[)i)or-
t unity to refresh my memory. I probably would have, biU not at
t he moment.
.\[r. Soi "RWixE. Sergeant, we are giatetiil to you. AVe know yon
interrujjted your vacat ion to come here.
(AVhereupon, at -1:12.") p.m., the subconuuiltee was adjourned, sub-
ject to the call of the ("hail.)
INDEX
NoTE.^ — The Senate Internal Security Subcommittee attaches no significance to
the mere fact of the appearance of the name of an individual or an organization
in this index.
A Page
ACLU 381, 399
Commission on Human Relations 399
Advertisement for meetings, Fair Play for Cuba, Cleveland, Los Angeles,
Minneapolis, New York 362
Advertisement David Bellinger lecture in Cleveland facing p. 419
AFL-CIO. (Sec American Federation of Lal)or. )
AFLr-CIO Mechanics Educational Society of America 366, 371, 374, 375
Amalgamated Meat Cutters 367
American Committee for the Protection of the Foreign Born 345, 396, 409
American Federation of Labor 336
American Forum 349, 407
American Forum of Socialist Education 344, 404
American League Against War and Fascism 348, 352
American League for Peace and Democracy 352, 412
American Legion, The ^ 351
"Americans Are Misled About Cuba, Unionist Says" (article from Cleve-
land Plain Dealer, Sept. 19, 1960) 371
Americans for Democratic Action 343
American Youth Congress (Third-1936) 350
"An Appeal to Americans" 381
Ann Arbor 381, 382
"Anti-Connell Rally Is Attended by 125 in Public Square" (article from
Cleveland Plain Dealer, Apr. 17, 1949) 370
Antioch 382
Antioch Church 367
Antioch College 419
"Appellate Judges Censure Connell — Set Bail for Two Jailed in Fawiek
Case" (article from Cleveland Plain Dealer, Apr. 17, 1949) by Wilson
Hirshfield 368
Aptheker. Dr. Herbert 361,362
Attorney General 396
B
Balista, Ladimir James 412
Baltimore 381,382
Bayliss. Carol 419. 420
Beals, Carleton 364, 373, 375
Berman, Norman 368, 369
Big Flats. N.Y 347, 350
Board of Education, New York State 373
Bobby Brooks, Inc 402, 403
Bonnie Lee 359, 366
Bowling Green State University 366
Brighton Community Center 362
Brown. Albert 399
Burke, Mayor Thomas A 370.371
Butchers Building 359, 374
423
424 INDEX
C Page
Call. The .'>r,2
Oamp 46 350
Camp ->2 ^'\. :^n2
Castro. Fidel 322. 3(>0. 3(>4-36(}. 372. 374, 37r>. :t77. :',S1
Castro Rovernment 3fil. 3(>4
"Castro Government. Thf^-Is It C.cxxl for Ciiha?" (pnblir- fonun) 302. 41fi
"Castro Still a Hero. Says Clevehnuler" (coluuin by Mary Hirschfeld aiv
pearing in Cleveland Plain Dealer. Jan. 7, 1961 — picture of Richard
H. Tussey 3<'6
Chase National Bank 38(5
V'hittaffo •'-'^2
Chicago Tribune 300. 400
CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) 3S1
Cincinnati. Ohio 378. 37lt
CIO United Electrical Workers 36S
Clark. Tom, Attorney C.eneral 3^0
Cleveland Call and Tost 41S
Cleveland ( 'ollege 340
Cleveland C^)tton Prmlucts Co.. Inc 4(t3
Cleveland Council of the Arts. Sciences & Professions 410
Cleveland Heights 402
Cleveland. Ohio 370. 3S4. 390-30.'), 402, 4a3. 4O0. 41(5
Cleveland Plain Dealer 340. .3a'. :U>S. .370-372. :'.S2, .-'.s.-,. 421
Cleveland Plain Dealer, editorial page (exhibit 66) "Funds I'aid for
T(.ur" 3^2
Cleveland Press 372-37."
Cleveland Public Auditorium 413. 41S
Cleveland Public Library 41S
Columbia Broadca.stiug System 373
C^>lumbiLs 3SL'
Conmiittee for a Sane Nuclear Policy 343. 4a",. 404
Cumnumist Partv. U.S.A 333. 337. 340. 3«>1. 363. 307. 406, 4<»0. 41.'. 422
Connell. .Judge .lames C 368, 36i>. .37a .371
0»rnell -^2
Cox. Spencer 300
CPS camp 347
aiba 337. 37r>. .382, 38:^, 304, .-.O.'., 414. 416. 421
Cuyahoga County ••02
D
Daily Worker 371
Dalv's KeiM)rt 3S4
Da.v, .lack G ;i3r>, .387-380, .301-411
DeLacey. Hugh 370. .••,72
Dellingcr. David 34S
DiKld. Senator Thomas J ■'■21
Dolista. Ladislans 34S
I)<.yle. .Judge Arthur W 3(>8. .369
E
Edwards. Theodore 3ti2
Epwortb Methodist Church 414. 416
iluclid .\vfinu' Hai>tist Church 41(5
Excel .Movie Production 0<) -Ho
Excel .Movie Pnxlncts •'4.">
F
Fair Play (imblication ) 381
Fair Play for Cuba Committee .321 42L'
Cleveland chapter 32L*.
:;2.%. :i37, :^>. 3S6. 387, 380, .304. 30.'.. 408. 404. 413. 414. 41(J. 420, 421
.New York 3.S7
Philadelphia 3;Mt
INDEX 425
Page
FPCC During Invasion (exhibit 6.1) 381
Fair Plav Supplement, June "j, 1961 398-399
(Exhibit 68) 399
-Fair Players Get Gypi)ed" (editorial) 382
Faulkner, Stanley 321, 390
Fawick Air Flex Co 368
Strike 370,371
Fawick Strikers 368
Fenn College f^^^
Ferroearriles Consolidatos de Cuba 360
Fifth amendment 825-327, 329-331. 335-337, 344-346, 35.5. 3.58-365,
367, 368, 371, 37.5-381, 383, 385^389, 391-398, 400, 40i, 407, 409, 413, 414
Flannery, James 421
Frank, Waldo 364, 373
Funds Paid for Tour 382
G
(ieldman, Max "'^2
Gibson, Richard 337, 358. 359, 364. .373, .376-378. 381-383, 386
Gilskey Co., AV. S 340.393,394
Gordon, Gerald 416. 421
Gordon Park, Cleveland 378,384
Great Wall Wood Church 361
H
Halliiian. Vincent 360, 362, 375
Hamilton County, Ohio 378
Hatt(.n, John T 418
Hearst Examiner 382
Hester, Gen. Hugh B 375
Higbee Department Store 420
Hiles Co.. Lezus 340
Hirschfeld, Mary 365-367, 421
Hirshfeld. Wilson 368
Holbrook. Sue 419
HoUanden Hotel 396
Horn. Mr. & Mrs. Robert 399
Hunsicker, Judge Oscar 368
Hurd, Judge Joy Seth 369, .370
Hybloom, Morris 416
I
ILWU 360
Indei)endent (weekly publication) 375
Independent Socialist League 3.50
Institute for Improvement of Intei'-American Relations 337. 3.59, 373
International Longshoremans Union 375
IWW 378
J
Jackson, Mr 415
Jackson. James 416
.John Birch Society 399
John^son. Tom L. monument 370
.Joseph. Jerome 416
K
Kaufman, Louis 384
Keating, Senator Kenneth B 321
Kingslev, Bob 323
Kirsch, Herman 349. 389, 395, 398, 400. 416
Testimony of 321-334; 390; 413-417
Fifth amendment 325, 413
Kirshenbaiun, Herman 323, 325
Kranek, Stephen 415, 416
Krause, Joseph 368
426 INDEX
I-" Page
Labor leader Tours Cuba (exhibit 63) oT.')
Labor Youth League 421. 422
Lambertville, N.J ;i.3S
Lausche, Frank J 370, 371, 3S0, 3S4
Lens, Sydney 3G3, 3G4. 37.1
Levey, Abraham H 402
Levey, Ida D. (Mrs.) 402
I^evey, Max Lawrence 340.350
Testimony of 341-347
Fifth amendment 344
Levey, Max 398, 407. 40S
I.*vey, Max L.. testimony of 400-400 ; 407-ill
Levey, Maxwell Lawrence 402
Fifth amendment ^ 404, 400
Ix)s Angeles 382
Mc
McCracken, Elizabetli 374
May Day :
Celebration in Cuba . 3(50
Celebration in Havana . , 303
Mechanics Educational Society of America, AFL-CIO 300, 371, 374
Machanics Educational Society of America (IMESA) 336, 355, 350
Local No. 72, Cleveland, Ohio 336
Merrick. Frank J 392
AIESA. ( See Mechanics Educational Society of America. )
Metalit.s, Marion 399
Miami 364
Michigan State University 363, 373. 375
"Militant, The" (publication) 332
Minneapolis 381. 3S2
Monthly Keview 3(^3. 375
Montreal 381, 3S2
Mortz, Milo 416
N
Nash Room (YMCA) 340
National Conference of American Socialists 408
Nearing, Scott 363, 3(v4. 375
New Jer.sey College for Women 339, .340
New Haven 381, :W2
New York Times (ad) 3H\
New York Times 382
O
OI)erlin College .381. 3S2
Ohio Conmiittee T() Secure .Justice in the Rosenberg Case .345, 410
"Ohio .Marches Toward I'eace and rmgrcss" (Communist Party 1937
.vearbook) .307
OslM>rMe, Wvnn .351
Ottawa -. 381, .382
P
Petras. ,fose]»h 41ti
Piiiiaildphia Afr<»-America 399
Piiotographs (exhibit 67) (Richard H. Tu.ssey) 3S3, 384
Police I (cpartmcnt. Cleveland 384, .'i85
I'.iirejiu nt' Si»eciMl Investigations 3S5
Police !>eii:irtnMnt. Cleveland. Ohio 390, -11.-, 117
PoUcxk, Sam 349, 4O0, H»7, lOS
Progre.ssive Party i 370.405, 410
INDEX 427
R Page
Iteinthaler, Anita 416
"Revolution in Cuba and USA Policy, The" (lecture) 362
Rise and Decline of the American Communist Party (seminar) 362
Roa, Raul. .Tr 377
Robeson. Paul 409
Rockford, 111 399
Romine, Auda 420, 421
Rosenberg Committee 345
Rosenberg Defense meeting__ 409
St. Louis Post Dispatch 381
San Francisco 382
Seattle 381,382
Seattle Student Council 399
Shapiro, Samuel 373, 375
Shapiro. Prof. Samuel 363,364
Shaw, Ed 362, 375
Shaw, Edward 398, 399
Simon, Mr 391, 393, 411
Simon. A. M 401
Simon. A. V 342,401
Simon, Jean 392
Smith Act 328
Socialist Call 352
Socialist Labor Party 384
Socialist Party 348, 350, 352
Socialist AVorlvers Party 332, 333. 348, 349, 363, 375, 380
Cleveland branch 330, 331, 397
Los Angeles Branch 396
National Committee 396
South Euclid. Ohio 402
Soviet p]mbassy 352, 353
At Washington, D.C 353
Spira, Ed 349
Stahl, Alameda 325
State Department 374
Sterling Hotel, Cleveland, Ohio 345,409
Stone. David 384
Stone, I. F 373
Stuart, Lyle 360, 375
Swabeck, Arne 362
T
Taber, Robert 358, 359, 373, 377, 378, 382, 383
Taft-Hartley law 344
Tekla. Tad 398, 40ti
Testimony of 347-353, 406-408, 411-il3
Fifth Amendment 407
Also known as —
Tekla, Ladislas 411
Tekla, Ladislas Joseph 412
Ladimir James Balista 412
Thaddeus Tekla 412
Thaddeus J. Takla 412
Tekla, Thaddeus 412
Tekla, Thaddeus J 412
Terry, Helen E 392
Toronto 381, 382
Tudor Arms Hotel 408, 422
Tussey, Mr 346
Tussey, Mrs 346
Tussey. Jean Simmons 326, 327, 329, 332, 348-350, 418, 421
Testimony of 338-340 ; 389 ; 391-400
Fifth Amendment 327, 391
428 INDEX
Page
Tusscy, Richard B 339. 34S. 349. :ir>0, 302, :«2, 404. 406-4()S, 414, 416. 421
Ph(.t(t;n-iil)hs (exhibit «j7) 38:^3,S4
Testimony of :i34-340
Fifth Aineiulment 335
Tiissey. Riohiird Benjamin ,391
Tiisse.v. Richard Berlin 385,418.419
Tynan, Kemieth 373
U
I'nsvary. .Ic.hn J 349,370.390.405.408,414-416
Testimony of 385-38i) ; 417-422
Affidavit of 415-416
"I'nion Aide FMred Before Cuba Tour" (Cleveland Press, December 28,
mm 374
■Union leader Here Forming (Jroup Aimed at (Jiving Cuba Fair Play"
(Article from Cleveland Press, I>eceml)er 9, liMyO 373
Unitarian Fellowship for Social Justice of the Unitarian Society of Cleve-
land 416
Unitarian Society 372
•( )f Cleveland 364, 371
United Fruit Co 382
"U.S. Cuban Relations" (subject for meeting) .3G2
Universe Bulletin 420. 421
Yokes Co., H. L 401-403
Vokes Ohio Corp 341
W
Walker. Cordon 399
Washington 381,382
Western Reserve University, Cleveland College of 403
Weygandt. Chief Justice Carl V 37<^
What I Saw In Cuba (si)eech at public meeting) 362
William-s, Roliert F 3«K>
Wisconsin. Univer.'dty of 38l,:iS2
Wood, I^tii 361. 362
Worker. The 415. 416
Worthy. William .348
Y
Yadrofsky. Jean 335, XM)
Young People's (Jeneral Assembly for Peace 408. 40'.>
Youth Progres-sives of America 405
YMCA (Cleveland. Ohio) 349.395,404-406
o
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