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GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION 



^ HEARINGS ^ 

BEFORE 

THE COMMITTEE ON THE 
MERCHANT MARINE AND FISHERIES 

j, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

SIXTT-FIFTH CONGRESS 

THIRD SESSION' 

ON 

H. R. 13159 

A BILL TO FURTHER REGULATE RADIO COMMUNICATION 



PART III 



• DECEMBER 18 and 19, 191? 



i 



> 



I 




\vashin(;ton 
govehnmknt 1 ii i nt i n(; oi fk i! 

lOl.S 



COMMITTF.E ON THE MERCHANT MARINE AND FISHERIES. 

House of Represkntatives. 



JOSHUA W. ALEXANDER, Missouri, Chairman. 



RITFUS HARDY, Texan, 
p]. W. SAUNDERS, Virginia. 
PETER J. DOOLING, New York. 
LADISLAS LAZARO, I^uisiana. 
WILLIAM S. GOODWIN, Arkansas. 
JESSE D. PRICE, Maryland. 
DAVID H. KINCHELOE, Kentucky. 
WILLIAM B. BANKHEAD, Alabama. 
EARL H. BESHLIN, Pennsylvania. 
BENJ. G. HUMPHREYS. Mississippi. 

J. 



WILLIAM C. WRIGHT, Georgia. 
WILLIAM S. GREEN, Massacusetts. 
GEORGE W. EDMONDS, Pennsylvania. 
LINDLEY H. HADLEY, Washington. 
FREDERICK W. ROWE, New York. 
GEORGE M. BOWERS, West Virginia. 
FRANK D. SCOTT, Michigan. 
WALLACE H. WHITE, Ju., Maine. 
FREDERICK R. LEHLBACH, New Jersey. 
SHERMAN E. BURROU(HIS, New Hampshire 

Bay, Clerk. 



II 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 



House of Representatives, 
Committee on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries, 

Wednesday^ December 18^ 1918, 

The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m., Hon. Joshua W. Alexander 
(chairman) presiding. 

Mr. Hardy. Mr. Chairman, before we start the hearing this morn- 
ing I wish to state that some parties representing inventors have 
asked me whether it would be possible for them to have a hearing. 
There are two gentlemen who stated they would like to make a 16- 
minute presentation each of the attitude of the inventors. 

Mr. Humphreys. After the amateurs get through ? 

Mr. Hardy. Yes; what I would like to do is to siiggest the time 
when they might be heard. 

The Chairman. I suppose we can get through with the amateurs 
to-day. We want to give everybody a chance to be heard before 
we close the hearing. 

Mr. Hardy. Then we might hear these gentlemen to-morrow 
morning. 

The Chairman. I agreed with Mr. Penfield, who represents the 
United Fruit Co., that if he could not be heard this morning we 
would let him in the first thing to-morrow morning. I thinS we 
will get through the hearings to-day and to-morrow; but if we do 
not, we will continue them over, that is all. . 

Mr. Hardy. Then I will tell these gentlemen to be here to-morrow 
morning at 10 o'clock. 

The Chairman. Yes; and I am not sure but what they might 
be heard this afternoon. 

Mr. Greene. I do not think these amateurs will be through to- 
day. They want a fair show, and have come from a distance. 

The Chairman. I understand that, and they will get a fair show, 
but they are not as long winded as some people. 

Mr. Greene. I am not so long winded as some people myself, but 
I want everybody to have a fair show. 

The Chairman. There is no trouble about that, and everybody 
will have a fair show. They have always gotten it in this com- 
mittee under this administration. 

Mr. Greene. Well, they had it under mine, too. 

The Chairman. Mr. Maxim, I believe, is to be heard first thit 
morning on behalf of the amateurs. 

237 



238 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OP RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

STATEMENT OF ME. HIEAM PEEGT MAXIM, FEESIDENT OF THE 
MAXIM SILENCEE CO., AND ALSO FEESIDENT OF THE AMEEI- 
CAN EADIO EELAT LEAGUE, HAETFOED, CONN. 

The Chairman. Please give your name and address and whom 
you represent. 

Mr. Maxim. My name is Hiram Percy Maxim; my residence is 
Hartford, Conn. ; my occupation is president of the Maxim Silencer 
Co. I am also president of the American Kadio Relay League, at 
whose request I present this plea for amateur wireless. 

The Chairman. What is the business of the American Radio Relay 
League? Is it a business concern or simply an association of those 
interested in this art? 

Mr. Maxim. It is purely an association of amateurs. 

.This appeal is made by the American Radio Relay League (Inc.), 
an organization of amateur wireless station owners having a member- 
ship exceeding 4,000, who are located in every State of the Union. 
The present headquarters is the office of its president, Mr. Hiram 
Percy Maxim, at Hartford, Conn. 

It appears that House bill 13159 contemplates, among other things, 
making it unlawful for the amateurs to communicate with each other 
by radio. 

We propose to show that the latter action will work an unjust hard- 
ship upon many American citizens, will constitute a shortsighted 
policy on the part of the Government, and will unquestionably be 
imperialistic and thoroughly un-American. 

The Chairman. Are you speaking to the proposed amendment or 
simply to the bill as introduced ? 

Mr. Maxim. I am speaking to both of them. If you will let me 
lead up to my point you will find that I refer to both of them. 

The magnitude of amateur wireless as an institution in our country 
is probably not entirely appreciated by this committee, and very evi- 
dently not at all by whoever proposed this bill. From the beginning 
of the art up to the outbreak of war in 1917 the American citizen has 
been free to communicate with a fellow citizen by running a wire from 
an upper window of his house to a nearby tree and connecting up a 
^ few standard and easily obtained pieces of apparatus. He not only 
has enjoyed radio telegraphic communication with a fellow citizen 
on the other side of his own town, but he has also enjoyed this form 
of conmiunication with fellow citizens in more or less distant towns 
and even in neighboring States. Everyone possessing a certain form 
of intellectual make-up responds to the marvel of this thing. To him 
who has a free running imagination this communicating through the 
air appeals intensely. 

In 1912 when it became necessary for the United States to ratify 
an international agreement controlling wireless the number of private 
citizens who had become interested and who had educated themselves 
in this science and who had erected small private wireless stations, 
either for receiving only or for transmitting and receiving, was so 
great that they commanded the consideration of the Government and 
were given a legal standing before the law under the name " amateurs." 

The importance and value to the country of these amateur stations 
and their amaiteur operators were recognized by the framers of the 
Jaw of 1912. Certain specified wave length, wave purity, wave decre- 



GOVEENMENT CONTBOL OF EADIO COMMUNICATION. 239 

• 

ment, and power were established for amateur use. Careful thought 
was given these values so that where the limitations were observed 
there could be no interference caused the Government or commercial 
stations. Government inspection by inspectors from the Department 
of Commerce inspected these amateur stations under the terms of the 
law of 1912, and regularly licensed them and issued official call letters 
when they were found to comply with the requirements and where 
they did transmitting as well as receiving. Where they did receiving 
only, no license was necessary, but in order to control even this it was 
wisely made unlawful for any amateur to divulge the contents of any 
message that might be received except to the person to whom the 
message was addressed. The law provided also for the licensing of 
the amateur operators of these stations. They were examined as to 
their ability to transmit and receive and as to their understanding of 
radio apparatus, and were given license according to their abilities. 

We have heard it said that the cost of enforcing the law among 
amateurs is more than the amateur is worth. The value of the ama- 
teur to the country will be referred to in a moment and in a manner 
which will show how much he is worth. The enforcing of the terms 
of the law was evidently not considered necessary by the Department 
of Commerce, because it was not done except in the most flagrant 
cases and where interference with Government or commercial stations 
was actually caused. But it came to pass that the amateurs them- 
selves took into consideration attending to this matter in order to 
reduce unnecessary interference among themselves and to set higher 
standards of amateur efficiency. It is a matter of record in the Amer- 
ican Kadio Relay League that steps were actually under way at the 
outbreak of the war to offer to the Department of Commerce the 
services of such men as were needed to enforce the law among ama- 
teurs and who would be willing to serve as deputy inspectors on a $1 
a year basis and who would organize to report to the regular in- 
spectors of the different districts amateur violations as to power, 
wave length, wave purity, and decrement. There is no doubt that 
this offer would be made to the Government later on if it is desired 
and if amateur radio is permitted. Therefore, "any criticism regard- 
ing the cost to the Government of enforcing the existing law among 
the amateurs is not justified. 

Under the existing law the amateur increased in numbers by leaps 
and bounds. When the outbreak of the war came and the President 
by proclamation required the dismantling of all apparatus, amateur 
wireless had become an important institution in this cmmtry. It 
supported upward of 25 manufacturing concerns, several magazines, 
and had in an orderly and systematic manner organized relay lines 
of little stations, whose work will probably startle this committee 
when it is recited. For example, one of these relay lines of private 
citizens started a message at 1.40 a. m. on the morning of February 
6, 1917, from New York City addressed to a citizen of Los Angeles, 
Cal. The message was delivered and the answer was back in New 
York City at 3 a. m. the same morning. In just 1 hour and 20 
minutes these amateurs had communicated across the continent and 
back. 

Mr. HuMPHRETs. If it would not disturb you, I would like to 
ask you a question right there. How many relay stations were there 
between those two points ? 



240 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Maxim. This is from memory — ^the stations started at New 
York City. It was then relayed by a station, I think, in Cleveland. 
It was relayed from Cleveland to a station in Illinois : from Illinois 
I think it went to some station in western Missouri ; rrom the w est- 
ern Missouri station it went to Denver; and from Denver to Los 
Angeles. 

Mr. Humphreys. From Denver to Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir; in one jump. 

Mr. Bankhead. About what was that distance? 

Mr. Maxim. I think that distance by air line is 700 or 800 or 850 
miles ; again I am speaking from memory. 

Mr. Humphreys. I thought it was something more than 1,000 
miles from Los Angeles to Denver. 

Mr. Maxim. No; I may be mistaken, but I do not think it is 1,000 
miles. I kjiow in this air line everything is disappointing as to 
distance. 

Mr. Humphreys. How far would you say, Mr. Hadley ? 

Mr. Hadley. I do not know how far it is by air line, because there 
is such a difference between air line and by rail. 

Mr. Maxim. You understand that distance can only be attaired on 
good occasions; the atmospheric conditions have got to be right. 
This is a comment not so much upon-rsome people might say un- 
fairly that that is an illustration of where an amateur was using too 
much power because he was able to communicate from Denver to 
Los Angeles, but that is not the point. You have missed it. The 
point is that the amateur is so keen, he is so intent upon getting the 
closest possible thing to 100 per cent efficiency, that the value of the 
thing is that his instruments and his powers of listening were so 
acute that he was able to do this. 

Mr. Humphreys. Was that message from Denver to Los Angeles 
sent by short-wave instruments? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. What length? 

Mr. Maxim. Two hundred meters. Maybe I am thinking of the 2 
P M station in New York City, which is exactly 200 meters, as close 
as we could measure. 

Mr. Humphreys. At any rate, it was a short wave ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir; it was within the limit. Just as another 
example, which I have not cited and which is worth while now that 
you have spoken of this thing, is that this 2PM amateur station 
in New York of 200 meters, of course, with the very finest instru- 
ments and with the most finesse which you do not see in most Gov- 
ernment or commercial stations — and you see the very finest finesse 
that can be attained in this art in these amateur stations — that little 
station, working on 200 meters, was right in touch with Denver 
direct on more occasions than one. 

Mr. Humphreys. From New York City to Denver? 
' Mr. Maxim. From New York City to Denver on 200 meters and 
Ikw. 

Mr. Humphreys. What do you mean by 1 kw. ? 

Mr. Maxim. The limit of the power as provided in the old law 
was 1 kilowatt, which we refer to as 1 kw. 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. ^41 

Mr. Greene. Then you believe that with the advantage you have 
already that you can even make improvements on what has already 
been accomplished? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir; you will see us make improvements. You 
liberate us again, and we will show you improvements in the next 
six months that will beat last year. 

Mr. Humphreys. May I ask still another question ? In sending a 
message from New Yort, you mean New York City, dp you ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. In sending a message that close to the sea to' 
Denver, were those waves short enough so as not to interfere with 
any ship-to-shore messages ? 

Mr. Maxim. Those waves were short enough, they were pure 
enough, and they were of the proper character, so that the New York 
Navy Yard could not hear it. Not only did it not interfere with 
them, but there was no way we could hear it. The instruments at 
this New York Navy Yard were not fine enough to get down that 
low. Of course I am speaking now of very beautiful conditions, 
which the amateur has got the time and the interest and the incentive 
to work to. 

Mr. Humphreys. I understand that, and that shows the possi- 
bilities. 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sif ; it does, distinctively. It is one of the things 
we are very proud of as amateurs. 

Mr. Greene. How long have you been resting now? 

Mr. Maxim. I think it was April 7, 1917, that the President of the 
United States shut us up. May I proceed, Mr. Chairman ? 

The CHAiRMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Maxim. Our interest was so keen that improvements in radio 
apparatus were invented and developed which were made use of by 
(jovernment and commercial stations. It ought to be of interest to 
this committee to know that Capt. Edwin H. Armstrong, now^ of 
the United States Army, in charge of radio laboratory, Paris, 
France, was an amateur before the war broke out, and that he is 
the inventor of the Armstrong regenerative circuit, and that this 
invention was made as a result of his amateur work, and that it was 
adopted and was made use of by every single station at the present 
time. We amateurs hope we may be i)ardoned for wondering what 
the Secretarv of the Navv would have done without the amateur 
Armstrong's circuit. 

The amateur radio and wireless clubs which had come to be organ- 
ized in most of the cities and towns throughout the country, and with 
whom our American Eadio Eelay League was in contact, invariably 
had many times as many members operating receiving stations as 
there were operating transmitting stations. Let us see what the 
probable number of amateur wireless stations wore in the United 
States when we were forced to close up on the outbreak of the war. 
Radio stations of the United States, edition of July 1, 1916, issued 
bv the Radio Service of the Bureau of Navigation, Department of 
Commerce, contains a list of over 5,000 licensed amateur stations. If 
we take the best estimates of the various clubs and associations 
throughout the country, we find that the average indicates that there 
were about 25 unlicensed receiveing stations for every licensed trans- 



242 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

mitting station. Therefore, in July, 1916, there must have been 
about 125,000 amateur wireless stations in these United States. This 
figure is more or less checked by those of us who traveled about with 
this thing in our minds. The number of houses one noticed in town 
and country in all States where the father or son of the household, or 
both, had put up their wires and evidently had built their little wire- 
less station was legion. To-day, great numbers of the owners of 
these stations who were either too young or too old to enter the serv- 
ice are writing to us and asking Avhat we are going to do about this 
verv serious matter of eliminating the amateur. 

The -location of these various amateur stations should be of value 
to this committee. 

The first district, under the existing law, includes the States of 
Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and 
Connecticut, in which, in July, 1916, there were 848 licensed amateur 
stations. 

The second district includes the eastern section of New York and 
the northern section of New Jersev in Avhich there were, oddlv 
enough, also 848 amateur stations at the date mentioned. 

The third district includes the States of New Jersey (lower sec- 
tion), Pennsylvania (eastern section), Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, 
and the District of Columbia, in which there were 815 licensed ama- 
teur stations. 

The fourth district includes the States of North Carolina, South 
Carolina, Georgia, Florida, and the Territory of Porto Rico, in which 
there were lOo licensed amateur stations. 

The fifth district includes the States of Alabama, Mississippi, 
Louisiana, Texas, Tennessee, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico, 
in which there were 120 licensed amateur stations. 

The sixth district includes the States of California, Nevada, Utah. 
Arizona, and the Territory of Hawaii, in which there were 618 
licensed amateur stations. 

The seventh district includes the States of Oregon, Washington, 
Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and the Territory of Alaska, in which 
there were 105 licensed amateur 'stations. 

Tlie eighth district includes the States of New York (western sec- 
tion), Pennsylvania (western section). West Virginia, Ohio, and the 
Lower Peninsula of Michigan, in which there were 823 licensed ama- 
teur stations. 

Tlie ninth district includes the States of Indiana, Illinois, Wiscon- 
sin, Michigan (Upper Peninsula), Minnesota, Kentucky, Missouri, 
Kansas. Colorado, Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota, and North Dakota, 
in which there were 786 licensed amateur stations. 

These figures are as of July 1, 1916. 

Mr. Humphreys. You spoke of Porto Rico, can the amateurs con- 
nect with Porto Rico from the land? 

Mr. Maxi.af. I have no record of it ever having been done, sir. 

The President's proclamation closed us up early in April, 1917. 
The number of additional stations set up by amateurs between July 
1, 1016, and April 1, 1917, is not available to us at this time, but they 
may be secured from the records of the Commissioner of Navigation, 
Department of Commerce. If we judge from the fact that during the 
month of November, 1016, a total of 285 amateur licenses were issued 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 248 

for amateur stations, the total number of licensed amateur stations 
at the time we were closed up must have exceeded 7,000. Mr. Cham- 
berlain told me the other day it was actually 8,562. These wei*e 
transmitting stations. If we take the best estmiates that are procur- 
able as to the number of unlicensed receiving stations to licensed 
transmitting stations, we are compelled to believe that there nuist 
have been in the vicinity of 175,000 amateur wireless stations in this 
( ountrv at the outbreak of war. 

An authority of the Eadio Club of America, and in charge of the 
radio appara.tus department of a large electric supply house of New 
York and Chicago, has said in the daily press that these amateur 
wireless stations represented an investment of not less than 
$10,000,000. There are the best reasons for believing that this figure 
is not extravagant. From our own memory, we can point to Mr. 
T. E. Gaty, of Morristown, N. J., vice president and secretary of the 
Fidelity and Casualty Co. of New York City, whose amateur appara- 
tus must represent an investment in excess of $5,000. Mr. John Hays 
Hammond, jr., an amateur of Gloucester, Mass., has probably in- 
vested in excess of $15,000 in amateur apparatus. Mr. Leonard D. 
Fisk, of Hartford, Conn., has invested in excess of $2,500 in amateur 
apparatus. Mr. W. H. Carroll, of St. Louis, Mo., has invested in ex- 
cess of $5,000 on amateur apparatus. The speaker has invested over 
>?!2,000 in his amateur apparatus. What is to become of all this prop- 
erty if we wipe out amateur radio? Will it be considered right to 
pass a bill here which will render this property and all other property 
of the amateur stations of the country useless ? 

This committee would do well to underistand that the amateur is 
not always a boy in short trousers. We consider our knowledge of 
the amateurs of the country as second to none, and this knowledge is 
that the majority of them are men between the ages of 20 and 30. 
There are a large number of boys, and there are also a large niunber 
beyond 30. The average.type of young man who is interested in wire- 
less represents the mentally keenef among us. He is fired more than 
ordinarily with that wonderful American spirit which has been 
shown the world on the battlefields of Europe during the past year. 
Wireless appeals profoundly, probabh^ because it represents the pro- 
foimdlv diiRcult. Wireless arouses the cooperation and the admira- 
tion oi the young man's, parents. They believe it leads to better 
thought and better things. It is our experience that the majority of 
the younger men interested in wireless come from families of the most 
modest means. We wish we might tell you of the examples that have 
come to our personal notice of the untiring effort and the intensity 
of purpose in which the sole animating motive has been to earn money 
to buy a pair of first-class head phones, or a regenerative receiving 
turner, or an amplifying vacuum valve detector — apparatus which 
the amateur can not make himself. These examples compel the re- 
spect of us more fortunate ones who are in a position to spend $25 
without serious consequences. 

We believe it will be of assistance to this committee to have a list of 
some supply houses who furnish apparatus and supplies for amateurs. 
As typical, we are taking a list from a single issue of the amateur 
wireless magazine " QST " of the issue of March, 1917. There are of 



244 GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF BABIO COMMUNICATION. 

course many others, but this is typical and has the advantage of un- 
derstating the case. 

Glapp Eastham Co., OainbrUlge, Mass. Mignou Wireless (^ori^oration, Klmirn, 
Adams Morgan Co., Upper Montclair, N. Y. 

N. Y. Lenzite Crystal Corporation. Pasa- 
W. J. Murdock Co., Chelsea, Mass. flena, Cal. 

Thordarson P^lectric Manufacturing Wireless Experimental Apparatus Co.. 

Co., Chicago, 111. Philadelphia, Pa. 

C. Brandes (Inc.), New York City. Wireless Manufacturing Co., Canton. 
Radio Apparatus Co., Pottstown, Pa. Ohio. 

Holtzer Cabot Co., Tole<lo, Ohio. H. A. Ueverend Manufacturing Co.^ 
William B. Duck Co., Toledo, Ohio. Kansas City, Mo. 

PI T. Turney Co., New York City. Electroset Co., Cleveland, Ohio. 

F. B. Chambers, Philadelphia, Pa. McGuire & Shotten, Albany, N. Y. 

Doubloday Hill P^lectrical Co.. Pitts- Elliott Electric Co., Shreveport, La. 

burgh, Pa. Jones Radio Co., Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Klitzen Wireless Apparatus Co. Borger-Decker Co., Buffalo, N. Y. 

Racine, Wis. .7. H. PVrrls, Royal Oak, Mich. 

Winger P^lectrlc Manufacturing Co., J. F. Arnold, New York City. 

Chicago, III. Fosco Conioration, Chicago, 111. 

A. H. Grebe & Co., Richmond Hill, De Forest Radio Telegraph & Tele- 

N. Y. phone ('o., New York City. 

If we permit the unamended bill undei* discussion to become law, we 
will at a stroke block the business which these concerns have had a 
right to expect would come back to them after the war and after the 
amateur had been allowed to open up. What is infinitely worse, we 
block the ambiti(m of over 100,000 of the best brains we possess to 
apply their efforts in that field in which they most want to work. We 
will have very successfully prevented them from repeating in the 
future w^hat we shall presently show they have done in the past to 
the glory of themselves and their country. 

We submit that is too important a matter to i)ass over lightly. No 
man should dare to say what embryo world-famous scientist has not 
his fate pending in this committee room at this moment. We con- 
sider it our sacred duty as an American citizen who perhaps has been 
by chance placed in possession of special knoAvledge of the subject, to 
present to you these facts and direct eveiy ounce of energy we com- 
mand to urge upon you to so modify this bill that by no possibility 
can it eliminate the amateur wireless station or its owner. 

This phase of this matter is not complete without considering the 
imtold possibilities in the way of collateral or side developments that 
any scientific person knows unavoidably accompanies work of the 
character we are discussing. An example we can point to at this mo- 
ment is certain work going on by an amateur which is aimed at the 
separation of oxygen and nitrogen from the atmosphere by a means 
that was suggested during the operation of liis amateur wireless sta- 
tion. We also know of certain promising experiments in the joining 
of metals which were suggested to an amateur as a result of working 
his amateur station. To anyone who is familiar Avith inventions and 
scientific development, it can not be otherwise than apparent that 
there must be thousands of inventions in the making and which may 
be of priceless value, and which you will kill if you prohibit Amer- 
ican citizens from operating amateur wireless stations. 

It would take too much time to present a list of the amateurs who 
volunteered in the Navy and in the Army when the country went 
to war in April, 1917. Our military forces were faced with the ab- 
solute want of a great corps of radio officers, instructors, and opera- 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION/ 245 

tors. They were needed immediately. There was no tinie to train 
them. The emergency was so great that I, as the executive head of 
a large amateur organization, was called on long-distance telephone 
by a naval officer at one of the largest navy yards and asked if I 
would call upon him at my earliest convenience. I called the next 
day with Mr. A. A. Hebert, the vice president of our American Eadio 
Relay League. This officer asked for our cooperation in securing 500 
amateurs' enrollments in the Navv immediately, and as much first- 
class amateur apparatus as could be located. He explained that the 
experienced amateur would require very little training. He also 
stated that the necessary radio apparatus was not available imme- 
diately, and that the apparatus of the good amateur stations, if ob- 
tainable, could be made use of at once. We extended our very best 
cooperation and the Navy got its experienced amateurs in the next 
few days. 

I have a letter from a young amateur named J. K. Hawitt, who 
was one of the young men of our organization who volunteered. 
He writes that he and two friends who were not amateurs enlisted 
together. To use his own words, " I was the only one of the three 
that had amateur experience. I finished the training at the electrical 
class, Brooklyn Navy Yard, in three weeks and went to sea. My two 
pals took seven months, and they did not begin to know what I did." 
This young man was torpedoed by a German submarine and his ship 
sunk from under him, and was rescued after being in the water for 
some hours. He now solicits my help in urging you not to pass a 
law that will prohibit his returning to amateur operating when he 
is mustered out of the service. 

There is another letter which contains information which this com- 
mittee would do well to have. It is from Lieut. C. D. Tuska, United 
States Army commander of Eadio Training School, Camp McClel- 
lan, Anniston, Ala. Lieut. Tuska is a very good example of the 
typical American amateur. Up to the outbreak of the war, he had a 
good amateur station, most of which he had built himself, and had 
become one of the founders and the secretary of the American Radio 
Belay League, had founded and was the publisher of the amateur 
wireless magazine, " QST " and when the war came, he volunteered. 
His radio knowledge, gained exclusively from his amateur experi- 
ence, caused the authorities to place him in charge of the organiza- 
tion of radio training, without as much as one hour's training from 
them. He went straight from amateur wireless to Government wire- 
less training with an officer's commission, and he represents a clean- 
cut and eloquent example of the value to our Government of the 
amateur. His letter reads : 

Camp McClellan, Ala., Novemhcr 15 1918. 

Mr. H. P. Maxim, 

Uartfordy Conn. 

Deab Mr. Maxim : This is just a short i)ersonal note to you to let you know 
that my Job seems to have finished with the si^nini? of the armistice. Tliat Is 
the way things appear at this time and if I am luelvy I shall he hack at the 
old amateur radio work before very long. It will he quite a change to start 
Qperating an amateur station after the kind of radio work I hav(» been doing 
here. 

You would be perfectly amazed if you were able to see with your own eyes 
the way the amateurs have come across in the case of the Army. I never have 
been able to tell you very much about the radio training I have \><?^w ^<5Ns\5f,> 



246 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

but I liave turned a whole lot of operators out for the Air Service and have 
become pretty well acquainted with the type of humnn it takes to make a 
first-class radio operator. I don't believe you will be very surprised when I 
tell you the very first sort of a student we looked for is an examateur. He 
seems to have had all the experience and all we have to do is to acquaint him 
with a few special facts and he is ready for his Ai-my job. If we can't get an 
amateur or a commercial ra<lio operator, then we try to convert a Morse 
operator, but it is a pretty hard job. After the Morse man, we take electrical 
engineers, and from then on. but a man without previous experience is almost 
hopeless as far as my experience has j-hown. Of course we can make an 
operator of him in ir» or 10 weeks: whereas, the other way an amateur, if 
fitted, in as few as 1(H) hours. They've surely done their bit an<l I am mighty 
proud I was one. 

With very best regards. I am, sincerely, 

C. D. TUSKA. 

It is very much to the point at this juncture, in order to show what 
^ye amateurs did for the Navy and Army, to read the editorial en- 
titled "War," ill the May, 19i7, issue of our American Radio Relay 
League Magazine, " QST " : 

Well, fellow amateurs, war has come to our good old Star Spangled Banner 
and all the sacrifices we have dimly dreamed in the past are now up to us to 
make. Yesterday's fancies are to-day's realities, and mighty grim ones at 
that. Our stations are all clo.sed. At this writing there is no knowledge when 
we shall be allowe<l to I'copen. Your guess is as good as ours. But there is 
one thing we do know iM)sitively. That is that even if we may not oi)erate 
our own stations, we may operate our Uncle Sam's. And this constitutes the 
most golden of all golden oi)portunities. 

We are asked by our countiy to come and help in the hour of nee<l with our 
special radio knowledge and training. Radio operators are wanted by both the 
Navy and Army and the service is made more agreeable than any military 
service ever before kn(>wn. We are asked to serve only for the war if we prefer, 
and we are givc^n living conditions, i>ay, and training of the most favorable kind. 
No one of our membership in good health and free from dependents should 
hesitate a moment to enroll. To those who do not, it will be the one big regret 
of their lives in the years to come. 

There will be a (iernian War Veterans' Association, and honor rolls, 
and you and yours will be very proud to have your name among the others. 
You can put it there now. You can not later, and when we are all opened 
up again with new and better equipment, and our A. It. R. L. has acquired 
the strength of having passed through the fire, then will those who have done 
their bit be proud of it, and those who have not will be very, very sorry. 

There was another matter vehich occurred some time before the war 
and in which the amateur showed his value to the Government. This 
was the case of Mr. Charles F. Apgar, of Westfield, N. J., the owner 
of an amateur receiving station. He had noticed, as had all of us, 
that the Sayville commercial station was sending out messages to 
German cruisers. After this was stopped and Navy censors placed 
in tlie station, Mr. Apgar and the rest of us noticed most peculiarly 
worded messages. Mr. Apgar conceived the idea that it might be 
interesting — ^this is typical of the amateur — ^to make a permanent 
record of these messages, so as to absolutely avoid the possibility of 
any personal error. He arranged a dictagraph onto nis receiving 
instruments and took records night after night of what Sayville sent 
out. These records, when studied, indicated most suspicious possi- 
bilities and he reported the circumstances to the radio inspector at 
New York City. It was immediately referred to the secret service. 
The latter department went to- Mr. Apgar's station and, under Mr. 
Apgar's direction, a new series of records were taken. These records 
and Mr. Apgar's testimony were later used in court with the result 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 247 

that the Sayville station was taken from its German owners. Cer- 
tainly it was worth having amateurs around just for this one case. 

Mr. Edmonds. There were naval stations in that neighborhood that 
could have taken that too, were there not ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir ; but the point that this committee would do 
well to consider there is that this took a lot of trouble and it took a lot 
of time and it took a lot of fussing around to do this little trick ; but 
that is what the amateur likes to do. He is not a paid man. He is 
working for 

Mr. Scott (interposing). Sport? 

Mr. Maxim. Well, I do not know what to call it. It is not sport. It 
is that thing which we Americans have — he is working to do some- 
tliing and to get there. 

Mr. Greene. Glory? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes ; maybe it is giory. I do not know what to call it. 

We amateurs are hopelessly scattered at the present time in the 
Army and the Navy. It would involve a great labor to prepare a list 
to show where we are and what we are doing. We do not believe it 
necessary to do this, and we appeal to this committee to be fair 
enough to give this point the full weight it deserves when we state 
that purely from the memory of those of us who could be hastily 
called together, we are able to present the following list of wireless 
friends who have given to the service of their amateur obtained radio 
knowledge. It should be borne in mind that most of these and thou- 
sands of others, are mute in this matter because of military regula- 
tions, and they may not speak in their own behalf before you at this 
time unless you call them: 

Lieut. Commander A. H. Taylor, naval air base, Hampton Roads, 
Va. Mr. Taylor was an amateur at the University of North Dakota. 

Lieut. J. C. Cooper, jr.. United States Navy, naval communications 
oflBce, Washington, D. C. Mr. Cooper Avas an ar\iateur in charge of 
one of our relay lines with headquarters at Jacksonville, Fla. 

Lieut. C. D. Tuska, United States Army, commander radio school. 
Camp McClellan, Ala. Mr. Tuska was secretary of our A. R. R. L. 
and publisher of " QST." 

Ensign M. B. West, United States Navy, officer in charge, radio 
school, Great Lakes, 111. Mr. West was an amateur of Lima, Ohio. 

Capt. E. H. Armstrong, United States Army, in charge of ra<Jio 
laboratory, Paris, France. Mr. Armstrong was an amateur, presi- 
dent of the Radio Club of America, and is the inventor of the well- 
known Armstrong regenerative circuit in general use at this time. 

J. O. Smith, radio expert, Division of Military Aeronautics. Wash- 
ington, D. C. Mr. Smith was an amateur of Valley Stream, N. Y., 
and a district manager of. one of our relay trunk lines. 

Howard L. Stanley, plant approvals officer. Bureau of Aircraft 
Production, Western Electric Co., New York City. Mr. Stanley was 
an amateur at Babylon, N. Y., and a director in our A. R. R. L. 

Lieut. Victor F. Camp, United States Army, Aircraft Production. 
Mr. Camp was an amateur of Brightwaters, N. Y., and a director 
in the A. R. R. L. 

Ensign C. R. Runyon, United States Army, oxccntivc officer 
Radio Compass School, Pelham Bay, N. Y. Mr. Runyon was an 
amateur at Yonkers, N. Y., and hold the record for number of ama- 
teur messages handled in a month. He is a directov \w cn\vc >v,'^,'^.\a. 



248 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIQ COMMUNICATION. 

Lester Spangenberg, radio inspector, Bureau of Steam Engineer- 
ing, United States Navy. Mr. Spangenberg was an amateur in 
charge of one of our relay lines. 

Joseph Fried, radio drafting work. Bureau of Steam Engineering, 
United States, Navy. . 

George T. Allen, radio inspector. Bureau of Steam Engineering, 
radio compass work. 

Lieut. Walter I^ennon, in charge radio telephone work, Bureau of 
Steam Engineering, United States Navy. 

I can go on here and cite amateurs who are in London on Admiral 
Sims's staff, in Siberia, in France, in the tank service, but I will 
not take the committee's time to read them all, but will submit them 
for the record. 

Ensign C. A. Service, United States Navy, Communication Service. 

Ensign Thomas J. Styles, United States Navy, Radio Aircraft 
Section, Bureau of Steam Engineering.. 

Ensign Charles Horn, United States Navy, radio investigation, 
third naval district. 

Ensign G. E. Burkhardt, officer in charge radio school, Pelham 
Bay, N. Y. 

Ensign M. Z. Bishop, radio aircraft section, Newport Navy Yard. 
Mr. Bishop, notwithstanding the fact he was an amateur, has been 
officially commended by Capt. Todd for the excellence of the New- 
port aircraft station as to general appearance and operation. 

Ensign George J. Else, attached to Admiral Sims's staff, London, 
England. 

Ensign P'rank King, radio officer, United States Naval Air Sta- 
tion, Dunkirk, France. 

F. W. Keeler, United States Army, American Expeditionary 
Forces, somewhere in Siberia. 

H. B. Deal, United States Navy, Marconi School, Cleveland, Ohio. 

W. P. Corwin, United States Navy, Naval Radio Station, London, 
England. 

H. J. Bnrhop, United States Navy, Naval Radio Station, Detroit, 
Michigan. 

L. A. Kern, United States Army, Tank Corps, somewhere in France. 

R. H. (t. Matthews, United States Navy, district commander's 
office, Chicago, 111. 

L. E. Dutton, United States Navv, Naval Radio Station, Bar Har- 
bor. Me. 

G. B. Bauer, United States Navy, Naval Radio Station. Luding- 
ton, Mich. 

A. Ball, United States Navy, Naval Radio Training Station, Bar 
Harbor, Me. 

P. B. Parks. United States Navy, Naval Radio Station, London, 
England. 

R. J. Iversen, United States Navy, Naval Radio Station, Bar 
Harbor, Me. 

J. Clausing, United States Navy, Naval Radio Laboratory, Wash- 
ington, D. C. 

L. A. Gebhard, United States Navv, Naval Radio Station, Belmar, 
N. J. 

Cecil Bridges, United States Navy, Naval Radio Station, Duluth, 
Minn. 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 249 

W. Hauenstein, United States Navy, district commander's office, 
Great Lakes, 111. 

F. Finehout, United States Navy, Reserve Force, Purdue Uni- 
versity, Lafayette, Ind. 

J. M. Clayton, United States Army, Buzzer School, University of 
Arkansas. 

W. .Woods, United States Navy, Naval Radio Station, Bar Harbor, 
Me. 

L. W.'Paust, United States Navy, Naval Radio Station, Belmar, 
N.J. 

L. C. Young, United States Navy, Naval Air Base, Hampton 
Roads, Va. 

A. F. Rufsvold, United States Navy, Naval Air Base, Chatham, 
Mass. 

J. C. Strobel, United States Navy, United States radio inspector. 
New York City. 

B. Butcher, United States Navy, Naval Radio School, Great Lakes, 
HI. 

R. T. St. James, United States Navy, Naval Radio School, Great 
Lakes, HI. . 

W. P. Rathert, United States Navy, Naval Radio School, Dun- 
woodie Histitute, Michigan. 

S. Kauffman, United States Navy, U. S. S. Texas, 

R. F. Laidlaw, United States Navy, Naval Radio Station, Milwau- 
kee, Wis. 

H. H. Shotwell, United States Navy, Naval Radio Station, Har- 
vard University, Cambridge, Mass. 

H. T. Johnson, jr., expert radio aid, in charge Aircraft Radio, 
United States Navy. Mr. Johnson was an amateur and a member of 
the board of directors of the Radio Club of America. 

Lieut. H. Sadenwater, United States Navy, radio officer. Aircraft 
Radio. Mr. Sadenwater was an amateur and before the war had 
lieen appointed a radio inspector of the Department of Commerce, 
stationed at New York City. 

I would like to point out to you gentlemen a very interesting 
thought. Let your imagination just feed on this a moment. These 
young men, like Lieut. Cooper, are coming back into the amateur 
>!ervice. Think of it. You are going to have, if you let us live, if 
you give us the breath of life, when these young men. open up again, 
the finest radio traffic handlers, experts, and inventors in the world. 
You are going to let loose the finest brains this country has ever seen. 
You can not stop it, gentlemen ; it will not do. 

Even the one who introduced this bill, with all his lack of appre- 
ciation of the patriotism displayed by us amateurs who volunteered 
immediately when they asked us, will have difficulty with this short 
list made up from memory only. To all else it ought to be apparent 
that the knowledge of us amateurs was of tremendous assistance not 
only in those first desperate days of unpreparedness but since then, 
and even right now at this moment. 

In- the unamended bill the only radio stations shall be naval sta- 
tions, experimental stations, training-school stations. No mention is 
made of the amateur, as is the case in the existing law of 1912, and 
also as was the case in House bill No. 257»S introduced by Mr. Padgett 
mi April 9, 1917. The amateur is entirely ignored. We wish nvost 



250 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

positively to protest against this, because we maintain it amounts to 
the total elimination of the amateur. It is not satisfactory to us to 
gloss over this question by explaining that the amateur is tacitly in- 
cluded under " experimental stations " or " training-school stations." 
Such an explanation is to our minds indirect, doubtful, and not what 
we regard as straightforward and square treatment. Such an ar- 
rangement would leave us at the mercy of unfriendly interpretation 
of the law, and it seems to us there is no need of ambiguity. We sub- 
mit that our record is such that we not only deserve to be squarely and 
directly dealt with and recognized before the law of our country but 
also that it would be a public misfortune if we are not. We are not 
asking for anything new. All we ask is the same recognition in the 
future that we have had in the past under a law which after five years 
of experience commands respect from all of us. 

We are not finished with this aspect of this subject until we point 
out one more important detail. If we change the existing law and 
blot out the amateur, what will be our situation some years hence if 
another great national emergency should arise? We have demon- 
strated beyond all question of argument the value of the wireless ama- 
teur when the great national emergency arose in April, 1917. If 
there are to be no amateurs at that coming day, when we will again 
face a national emergency, and no man should say such a 'day will 
never come, it is very likely that we will be found tremendously less 
prepared radiowise than we were even in 1917. It is quibbling to 
avoid this point, at least, according to the straightforward mental 
processes of those young men who will soon be back among us. They 
are going to want to continue to operate their little wireless stations, 
especially when they know that observing the law of 1912 will posi- 
tively prevent them causing any trouble. In their behalf and while 
they are absent from the country or unable to speak to you on account 
of military regulations, we emphasize as solemnly as we know how 
that it is shortsighted to brush aside with the wave of a hand, as this 
unamended bill proposes, the amateur. 

Most of the amateurs do not know that you are considering their 
elimination here at home while thev are awav. What thev will 
think when they come home and find that you have wiped them out 
without explanation and with no understandable reason, sliould be 
left to the imagination. It will certainly bring the question of 
Government ownership very much to the front in the mind of those 
stout-hearted young men, who many people think will have in- 
fluence in political affairs in the days to come. The mental attitude, 
that w^ill be taken involuntarily by these younger men who are now 
abroad, and who will want to be amateurs again when they come 
home, is something which we are firmly persuaded this committee 
would do well to consider. We know this young man, because we 
have been about with him, we have headed his organization for some 
years, and because he talks to us daily and writes to us. We believe 
we speak truly when we say that his business is going to partake of 
the smell of "Verboten" to him, with all that this term implies. 

It is a waste of breath to tell him that he interferes with Gov- 
ernment and commercial stations. He knows better, except, of 
course, in those rare cases of infraction of the law, or unless he is 
very close by. He knows that not only does his power and his wave 
length, wave purity, and decrement prevent harmful interference 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 251 

to the users of longer wave len<2:ths, but he also knows the reason 
why. He also knows that when examples of amateur interference 
are pointed to as a reason for prohibiting amateur wireless alto- 
gether, that every one of them represents a violation of the law, and 
therefore easily preventable. He also knows that considering the 
great number of amateur stations operating, that the total numbei 
of cases of interference makes a ridiculously small percentage. He 
also knows that no great effort was made to enforce the law among 
amateurs, and that even the small number of cases of interference 
would be materially reduced if measures were taken to enforce tha 
present law. 

While on this point, we believe it desirable to dwell a moment 
upon what the amateur has done among himself. The extent to 
which he has made use of his brains is something which would com- 
mand the admiration of this committee were they as conversant 
with this subject as are we. This radiotelegraphic communication 
between citizens has been developed by a class of young men that we 
consider intellectually the highest type we have among us. It 
takes brains to understand radiotelegraphy. It takes more brains 
to design and build efficient radiotelegraphic apparatus. A great 
many amateurs have and always will build their own apparatus from 
the raw material. This takes brains. It takes still more brains to 
be able with this home-made apparatus and with the small amount 
of power that is permitted the amateur by law to carry on reliable 
communication so that citizens separated by hundreds of miles may 
talk with each other through the air. These amateurs have done all 
this, and when we were actually stopped in April, 1917, we had just 
got into working order regular lines of little stations which bade fair 
to become one of the astonishing development of the times. 

Is it to be wondered at that the young fellows avIio have bocMi 
doing this sort of thing should turn out to be the soldier we have 
seen on the battle fields of France under the Stars and Stripes? 
They typify America in every way. They are perfectly willing 
to pull in their wires and take apart their improvised but hi<i:hly 
ingenious apparatus, if it will help the countiy win tlie war. Xo 
sacrifice, even of life, is too great for them to make. But wlion 
the war comes to be over, and the President of the United State-^ 
has said so, and the war has been won, and it is established who had 
a good part in winning it, they are no longer willing to leave down 
their wireless apparatus. They can not see the necessity for it, niid 
it is silly attempting to make them. When you try, you are uu- 
American, in their judgment, to express it mildly. 

In order to adequately protect p.iid assure the future of tlie nina- 
tenr, we urge the adoption of tho muoiiduieuts whi. h i-efer to the ama- 
teur and have heen presented by the Navy Depart*. leut. Tlio-e 
amendments Avere decided uj)on at a conference })etween our ])re>i- 
dent, vice president, secretary, and re])resentatives of the Xavy T)e- 
)>ai'tment, and in our opinion assure the future existence of the ama- 
teur under conditions favorable to a continuation of his su"( e-'^jful 
develop?nent. 

Mr. Hardy. Is that this aniendnient here? 

Mr. Maxim. I do not know the one vou have there 

Mr. Bankheai). The one offered here by Lieut. Cooi)er. 

96770-10— PT.-? 2 



252 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Bankiiead. Is that entirely satisfactory to the anmteur in- 
terests ? 

Mr. Maxim. Broadly speaking, that is satisfactory to us. 

Mr. Baxkiieai). Haye you looked at the amendment? 

Mr. Maxi^i. That was arriyed at in conference but I did not see a 
( opy of it until last night, but I will say this fornuilly to you, that in 
our o])inion it assures the futui'e existence of the anuiteur under con- 
ditions fayorable to a (ontinuaticm of his successful development. 

It is true certain additional restrictions are ])roposed, such as the 
licensing of amateur receiying stations as well as the transmitting 
stations, limiting ailiateur power at certain distances from Govern- 
ment receiving stations, and requiring operators' license approxi- 
mately the equivalent of the present se: ond-grade commercial license 
in order to be permitted to transmit signals which may be heard be- 
yond a State border. We approve of these restrictions because we 
recognize they are reasonable and that unless our amateiU* status is 
based upon reasonableness, we can not expect to continue to enjoy the 
public sympathy and approval we now have. 

We have no comment to make upon the question of Navy control 
and ownership of radio communication. 

In this connection, I have two affidavits, Mr. Chairman, which I 
would like to make a part of my brief. One of them is bv J. Owen 
Smith, who, being duly sworn, deposes and says that he did certain 
things as a result of his amateur training, and that a captain in the 
Army says that it would have been very ffood for England if Eng- 
land had had amateurs and had encouraged them. The other affidavit 
is a statement of some very superior receiving that was done by an 
amateur apparatus. (For affidavits referred to, see pp. 399-400.) 

Mr. HrMPHKEYs. Let me ask you a question right there. Does 
P^ngland, under her regulations, discourage amateurs? 

Mr. Maxim. I do not think England discourages it. I think Eng- 
land has tlicm in a very, very limited way. I confess I am not 
familiar witli the law of England. 

Afr. Humphreys: Then it is not due to any law, so far as von know. 

Mr. Maxim. I do not think I had better venture any conunents on 
that because I am not familiar with the subject in England. 

Mr. Baxkhead. Mr. Maxim, could you give any intelligent or ap- 
])roximate estimate of the amount of capital invested by manufac- 
turers of amateur ap])aratus, whose names you gave a while ago. 

Mr. Maxim. I think my estinuite would compare in a*^*curacy with 
that of aluiost any amateur. I w^ould think the capital invested at 
the close of the war would probably be from two to three million dol- 
lars by the manufacturers. That is purely an estimate as I run over 
in my mind the number of manufacturers I can think of at the pres- 
ent moment. 

Mr. KiNCHEix)E. What is the average wave length used by the Gov- 
ernment from ships to coast? 

Mr. Maxim. Six hundred meters. 

Mr. White. May I ask you a question about this amendment? It 
refers to tlie Continental-Morse code, and provides that the license 
shall require that the operator must show his ability to send and re- 
ceive at least 75 letters per minute in the Continental-Morse code. Is 
there any other code ? 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OP BADIO COMMUNICATION. 253 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. White. Then why should this be limited to the Morse code? 
Why should it not provide that the licensee shall show his ability to 
send 75 letters per minute according to that code or an equivalent 
capacity ? Why should you tie it down to that particular code when 
there are other codes? 

Mr. Maxim. I might say, sir, that if you knew the situation you 
would say it was tying it down pretty tight to tie it to one code, but to 
make it otherwise 

Mr. White (interposing). I do not know the situation and that is 
why I ask the question. Why is it tied down to that code if there are 
other codes ? 

Mr. Maxim. There is only one other code in normal use, and that is 
what we call the American landline code. 

Mr. White. However eflGicient a man may be in the use of that other 
code, he would not be entitled to a license under this amendment unless 
he could meet this requirement as to the Continental-Morse code? 

Mr. Maxi^i. No radio signals are transmitted on the American- 
Morse code that I know of. They are all transmitted on the Inter- 
national-Morse code, and that is tying it up pretty tight, to receive 
15 words, or 75 letters, a minute on that code. For goodness sake, do 
not ask them to be that efficient on other codes as well, especially since 
the other codes are never used. 

Mr. Humphreys. That was not the question, as I understand it. 
The question was why tie him to any coae? Why not state if he can 
send 75 letters by the Morse or its equivalent in any other code ? That 
may be a thoroughly impracticable suggestion from your viewpoint, 
because you are informed on the subject and I am not, but I was just 
wondering why that would not be more liberal. 

Mr. Maxim. That would mean this, sir: That a man who was an 
expert in landline telegraphy could come in and pass his examination 
and he would not be able to read your QRT, nor your stop sending 
signal, nor your SOS signal on the Continental-Morse code. 

Mr. Bankhead. As I understand the Morse code, it transmits the 
alphabet by dots and dashes. 

Mr. Maxim. To indicate a dot in the landline code there are two 
clicks coming close together, click-click ; a dash is two clicks separated 
like this: Click — click. 

Mr. White. That is the same system used in telegraphy ? 

Mr. Maxim. Landline telegraphy. 

Mr. White. Then the purpose of this language is to coordinate and 
standardize it ; is that the idea ? 

Mr. Maxim. The purpose of this is 

Mr. White (interposing). This refers to the Morse code? 

Mr. Maxim. That is in the old law, and the idea of the framers 
of the law was this : It is not safe to have anybody operating a trans- 
mitting station unless he can read the code which is in use and be able 
to understand if somebody wants him to stop sending. 

The Chairman. The international regulations require the Morse 
code? 
' Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Otherwise, we would have endless confusion in the 
transmission and receipt of messages? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 



254 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

The Chairman. In other words, it would be very much like the 
confusion of tongues at the building of the Tower of Babel, I imagine. 

Mr. Burroughs. The amateurs, then, would not object to this 
requirement of 75 letters, according to the Continental Morse code, 
as provided in this amendment ? 

Mr. Maxim. That is 15 words a minute, and 15 words a minute is 
the existing second-grade commercial test in order to secure a license. 

Mr. Burroughs. And they would not object to that? 

Mr. Maxim. The A. E. R. L. is an organization, as I say, of about 
4,000 members. There are other amateurs besides us, but we do not 
object to it. 

Mr. Humphreys. And it is your opinion, at least, that they should 
not object to it ? 

Mr. Maxim. In my opinion, they should not object to it, because 
what we are trying to do is to look forward into the future. We are 
trying to so broaden this thing so that you will be proud of us ama- 
teurs in the years to come, and we do not want to be put in the posi- 
tion of asking for anything that is unreasonable. 

Mr. Edmonds. The requirement for an amateur here is higher than 
the requirement for a second-grade commercial operator, is it not? 

Mr. Maxim. My understanding is that it is not. 

Mr. Edmojjtds. I imderstand a second-grade commercial operator 
is required to send 12 words or 60 letters per minute. 

Mr. Maxim. Then it is too high. It should be no higher than the 
existing second-grade commercial license. 

Mr. Edmonds. Where do you propose that these young men should 
learn to send 75 letters a minute? 

Mr. Maxim. Oh, you leave it to the yoimg man, and he will learn 
how to receive it or send it. 

Mr. Edmonds. And you think that can be done without interfer- 
ence or without any trouble? 

Mr. Maxim. I took this thing up when I was beyond the age of 40, 
when one's intellect is not quite as nimble as when you are younger, 
and it took me a good part of a year to take 20 words, which is the 
first-grade commercial requirement. 

Mr. Edmonds. I mean, how is he going to learn to send at all if he 
is restricted in the use of any apparatus until he can send so many 
letters ? 

Mr. Maxim. He could be taught with a push button and your 
front doorbell. 

Mr. Edmonds. And just work inside. 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir; that would not infringe the law, and he 
would be in position to learn the code in that way. 

Mr. Bankhead. What is the minimum cost of installing an amateur 
apparatus if, for instance, a country boy in my district wants to 
experiinent with wireless ? 

Mr. Maxim. A country boy or a boy of small means, whether be is 
in the country or in the city, will put up a wireless station with baled- 
hay wire. I have seen them myself ; they use the wire that comes off 
of bales of hay, and then he will use a tree at the back of his house, 
and he always selects a' hencoop for one end. I can not say why, 
but he always selects a hencoop. The other end will lead into his 
house and probably have no support at all. Now, so far there is no 
expense. Then he will go down town, or he will send to one of these 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF EADIO COMMUNICATION. 255 

supply houses if he lives in the country, and will buy a certain number 
of pounds or half pounds or three-quarters of a pound — and he has 
got it figured down to the inch — of exactly the kind of copper wire 
he wants to wind the receiving tuner, which consists of a coil of wire 
wound on some cardboard, and inside of that another cardboard tube 
with wire wound on it. He will take that and will go and beg from 
somebody a little piece of galena. It is astonishing where he gets it, 
but he has a friend somewhere who knows a friend who has a piece 
of galena in his collection. He will get a piece of galena, and then he 
will take a little piece of the finest wire he can get, and he will get a 
little thread out of this flexible cord, which he will have attached to 
the electric light in the house; in other words, a little piece of fine 
copper wire — I have seen my own boy do this — and then he will just 
get a nice little contact on that piece of galena, and if he can get a 
pair of head telephones — ^he can not make them, and he has got to 
get those somewhere, and I have known them to borrow them for a 
week at a time, and I have loaned mine to all kinds of boys to help 
them alon^, but if he can borrow his head phones, after buying his 
wire, he will have a receiving station, and I suppose the total expense 
might be about $3.50. 

Mr. Bankhead. Suppose he has to buy those things. 

Mr. Maxim. Mr. Chambers, what is the price of a pair of head 
phones? 

Mr. Chambers. The price varies. You can buy a pretty good set 
for $3.50. They generally save up for them 10 cents at a time, and 
when they come in to pay for them they will have a handful of dimes, 
which they usually dump out of a little bag. 

Mr. Banjchead. Do you think, then, he could establish such an 
apparatus within the range of $10 ? 

Mr. Maxim. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Bankhead. If he is enough of a genius as a beggar and bor- 
rower. 

Mr. Maxim. A great many boys that had $10 would expect to get 
a station the equal of Arlington. 

Mr. KiNCHELOE. If a message of a wave length of 250 meters were 
to interfere with another message of 600 meters, is that a fatal 
interference? 

Mr. Maxim. Will you mind stating that once more? 

Mr. Kjncheloe. I do not know whether I am stating what I really 
want to know, because I do not know a thing about this proposition. 
If a wireless message of 250 meters wave length were to interfere 
with a message of 600 meters, would it be a fatal interference with 
the 600-meter message? 

Mr. Maxim. Of course, you presuppose it could interfere. 

Mr. KiNCHELOE. Yes ; I say if it did interfere — on that hypotheses 
would it be a fatal interference to that message of 600 meters ? 

Mr. Maxim. In the first place, it could not interfere. 

Mr. BoNCHEiiOE. You say it could not interfere ? 

Mr. Maxim. It could not. 
 Mr. KiNCHELOE. What messages, then, can be in interference with 
another? 

Mr. Maxim. The homeliest example I can state that will convey 
it to your mind is that if you walk up to a piano with the cover u^ 
and strike a note you will hear certain striivgs Ye^^ox^di. ^"cJ^ ^«38^ 



266 GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 

strings will respond which are in tune with the note that you struck. 
If you send on 200 meters, only those strings will receive which are 
on 200 meters. If you are sending on 200 meters, you will not find 
that the soprano notes or the baser notes in your voice come back 
at alL There is no resonance. There is no comeback. 

Mr. KiNCHELOE. Now, let me learn a little further. It seems to 
me the contention of the Secretary of the Navy, and I heard his 
statement before the committee, was that the main thing he was 
afraid of in reinstating amateurs would be interference. Now, upon 
what hypothesis can there be an interference from ship to coast? 

Mr. Maxim. An infraction of the amateur law; that is, an ama- 
teur sending on a wave length in excess of what he has any right 
to send on. 

Mr. KiNCHELOE. You mean under the existing law ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes; under existing law. The existing law says 
that the amateur shall be permitted to send on 200 meters. I have 
known them to send on everything — such a broad tune that you could 
tune him at 2,000 and you could tune him at 200. 

Mr. KiNCHELOE. You mean by that, he violated the law? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. If you do not violate the law, there is no 
reason why you should interfere unless you are right up under 
the eaves of a Government station, which is receiving. 

Mr. Greene. This proposition, as it comes before us, is to broaden 
the opportunity of the Navy to go into the commercial business, and 
I want to know whether you amateurs have given any consideration 
to the fact of the Navy entering that field. 

Mr. Maxim. No, sir. We have no comment to make upon that, 
at all. 

Mr. Greene. You do not wish to make any comment on that? 

Mr. Edmonds. You do not think it will' prevent boys from study- 
ing wireless because there is no place for them to go, if they want to 
make a business of it in the future ? 

Mr. Maxim. I can see where that might be used as an argument; 
yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You say this amendment suggested by the Navy 
Department is satisfactory to you? 

Mr. Maxim. It seems to us to be satisfactory ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. I understand thalj was worked out by representa- 
tives of the amateurs and the Navy Department. 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Greene. You have not given any consideration to the de- 
velopment of business; that is to say, at present that is under the 
Department of Commerce, and I notice in the Washington Herald 
this morning that Secretary Kedfield wants an opportunity to put 
on 30 more specialists for the purpose of broadening our trade, and 
tjiat he has the approval of ^President Wilson to his scheme. He 
wants to broaden out the business opportunities. The Department 
of Commerce has done a good deal of exploiting looking toward 
foreign trade. I do not know that they have struck any yet, but 
they have been exploiting a good deal in the press about the de- 
velopment of foreign trade and doing a good deal of blowing, but 
I do not know that they have accomplished any results ; but if they 
do want to do that, you have not given any thought to that part 
of it. You are simply concerned about the amateurs? 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 257 

Mr. Maxim. All I wish to ask is that you protect the future exist- 
ence of the amateur. 

The Chairman. You are not in the business for commercial pur- 
poses? 

Mr. Maxim. No, sir. 

Mr. Greene. You are bound up with the Navy to put this proposi- 
tion through, and there is one point T want information about, if I 
can get any information out of the amateurs, and if they have it 
they ought to give it to me, and that is as to the possibilities of the 
development of trade. That is what this committee is for. This 
committee is not a naval committee. This committee is for the de- 
velopment of trade and business, and we have got an immense — not 
a very immense merchant marine — ^but a merchant marine at an enor- 
mous cost. That is the immensity of it. We have got a small mer- 
chant marine, hardly worth mentioning, at an enormous, outrageous 
cost, and I want to make use of that merchant marine if we can. 1 
do not think we can until we do something about it in the way of law, 
out of this committee, to make it possible to use the merchant marine. 
We can not use it in its present st^te, because we are distanced by 
Japan and by England and by every other country in the world, and 
what I want to get at is some information out of some of you as to 
the development of trade and as to whether the Navy Department is 
in any respect interested, and, if they are interested, where they have 
ever had any experience in trade. Perhaps the few men you have 
leferred to who have been in the wireless and who are now at work 
in the Navy have some broad ideas about the expansion of trade. T 
am a great believer in the expansion of trade, and I want to get 
something to show that this bill means expansion of trade. It moans 
contraction of trade, as I understand it, and I want to see if I can 
get your idea as to that. 

Mr. Maxim. I am sorry, sir, but I do not feel myself competent to 
answer that. 

Mr. Edmonds. Mr. Maxim, will you go a little deeper into this 
power input: that is, whether limiting the power input to one-half 
kilowatt, in case of amateur stations within 100 miles of the Atlantic 
or Pacific Ocean is a satisfactory situation. 

Mr. Maxim. I think it is ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Edmonds. You have had 1 kilowatt up to the present time? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Edmonds. They have now reduced it to one-half? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Edmonds. Will that answer all the purposes of the amateur. 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir; I think it is a reasonable request. T think if 
we amateurs verge on the greedy, we are just laying up trouble for 
ourselves in the future. If you will limit us to one-half kilowatt, T 
consider it a very healthy condition, and we will soon do with one- 
half kilowatt what we were formerly doing with 1 kilowatt. 

Mr. Edmonds. Then, do you api)rove of this one-quarter kilowatt 
within T) miles of a Government receiving station? 

Mr. ^Iaxim. That is unfortunate, because a case has been brought 
io my mind of stations in the interior where by no possibility could 
distress signals from the sea be interfered with, and I should think 
that would be worthy of a little further consideration. T confess 
that in the beginning we had not thought so much about those inte- 



258 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OP RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

rior stations, and I would like to hear from some of the amateurs 
who live in the interior on that subject. 

Mr. Edmonds. Is there any necessity of one-quarter kilowatt 
witliin 5 miles of a Government receiving station? 

Mr. Maxim. It might be, sir. If a tug at sea were in distress aiid 
called with its short wave length, which it would have to use, and 
some amateur within 5 miles was using one-quarter kilowatt, it 
might be he would cause interference with that tug. It is barely pos- 
sible he would be cul])able, and we do not want the amateur to be in 
the position of asking for more than he really ought to have. 

Mr. ED^roNDs. Suppose a naval officer was living at Lakewood, 
X. J., or some place just a little inshore on Long Island, and had a 
receiving station, not a sending station, then you would have to re- 
duce your power if you were near him, because that is what this says 
here. 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. Did you sav a naval station or naval officer? 

Mr. Edmonds. It would be a Government receiving station, be- 
cause that naval officer lives in a Government house. 

Mr. Maxim. If evasion or advantage is taken of us in a thing of 
that kind, then we are opposed to it. 

Mr. Edmonds. Do you not think it Avould be a great deal better if 
it said a Government station, describing the station ? 

Mr. Maxim. It might be well to do that ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Edmonds. A Government naval station, we will say. 

Mr. Maxim. That might be. 

Mr. Edzvionds. But even at that, an officer's house would be so con- 
sidered. 

Mr. Maxim. If an officer's private house 

Mr. Edmonds (interposing). You gentlemen might interfere with 
an officer keeping account of his social engagements over the tele- 
phone. 

Mr. Maxim. Then we are against that. 

Mr. Humphreys. That would not be a Government receiving sta- 
tion, would ^t; Mr. PMmonds? That would be a private receiving 
station. The man occupying the house might be an officer in the 
Nav}', but that would not make it a United States Government sta- 
tion. 

Mr. Edmonds. We pay the rent of the house, and it seems to me 
it would become a Government receiving station. 

The Chairman. Do you know of an instance like that? 

Mr. Edmonds. I can conceive of that being possible. 

The Chairman. But you have not any knowledge of anything of 
the sort? 

Mr. Edmonds. No; because the Navy Department has never had it 
before. 

The Chair3ian. -If an officer of the Navy had a receiving station in 
his home, would that be a Government station? 

Mr. Edmonds. If the Government owns the house or pays rent for 
the house and the Government pays for the apparatus, I presume it 
would be. 

Mr. Humphreys. If we undertake to define what a radio station 
is and what an experiment station is, that would not be possible, and 
it mi^dit be advisable, according to your suggestion, to define what a 
Government receiving station is. 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 259 

Mr. Edmonds. That was my idea, and I wanted to get your idea 
about it and to get exactly what this meant. I want also to call 
your attention to the fact that the present law for an amateur calls 
for the sending of 25 letters per minute; for a second-grade commer- 
cial operator it is 60 letters, and yet in this amendment the Xa\y is 
asking for 75 letters per minute. 

Mr. Maxim. Yes ; I was under the impression that it was tlie same 
as for a second-grade commercial operator. 

Lieut. Cooper. It was the imderstanding that this was to be the 
same as for a second-grade commercial operator, and I misunder- 
stood Mr. Terrell the other day, and this amendment should be made 
the same as the requirement for a second-grade commercial license. 

Mr. Edmonds. Do you not think that is even too much for an 
amateur? 

Lieut. Cooper. I will go back on the stand if necessary; but I 
simply wanted to say at this time that it should be the same as 
second-grade commercial license. 

Mr. Maxim. That was the intention. Then this should be 60 letters 
per minute. 

Mr. lSAtrN#ERs. I believe you are devoted to the work of inven- 
tion — ^that is your profession, is it not? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. And have taken up in that connection this par- 
ticularly fascinating art of the wireless and speak with some author- 
ity as an amateur in connection with the work you have done in 
that line ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. I want to ask you this question with respect to the 
commercial development of the wireless: As to point-to-point use 
within what I will call continental United States, do you think there 
is a future along that line for domestic use and domestic transmis- 
sion of domestic intelligence within the United States itself — used be- 
tween stations as between cities or between concerns, with a chain of 
business houses who want to use it in a private way? Is there a field 
for possible useful development along that line in the United States 
in competition with the telephone and the telegraph ? 

Mr. Maxim. I understand your question to be this: Is wireless as 
you describe liable to compete with existing telephone and telegraph 
business? 

Mn Saunders. Is there a future for it if allowed free scope of 
development ? 

Mr. Maxim. I hardly think there is. Most of our business mes- 
sages must be strictly secret, because they involve questions of price 
and business policy, and I should think that the radio communica- 
tion in continental United States would not lend itself to business as 
well as the telephone or telegraph lines. 

Mr. Saunders. That is not by reason of inherent defect in the 
apparatus, but .because you think that the messages would be of a 
character that would not want to be transmitted by a medium which 
admitted of listening-in universally ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. S?AUNDERs. I understand that you think that would limit it. 



260 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Maxim. That is one cause for my judgment; and the other is 
that radio at this stage of the game is dependent upon the weather 
and the season. 

Mr. Saunders. It is entirely conceivable that with the develop- 
ment of Uie art that that, like many other difficulties, will be i-e- 
moved ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes; it is one of the things we are struggling very 
hard to accomplish. 

Mr. Saunders. You are working on it now ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. With that out of the way any physical or scien- 
tific difficulty would be removed, and it would be a question just to 
what extent the people in private business would use the system for 
purposes of communication. 

. Mr. Maxim. Yes. We have instances of the Goodyear Rubber Co., 
at Akron, Ohio, which communicates with its branches or did com- 
municate with some of its branch houses by radio, and the instance 
of John Wanamaker communicating between his New York and 
Philadelphia stores. 

Mr. Saunders. Then it was the possible development for that use 
that I inquired about. 

Mr. Maxim. It indicates it is at least used, with this opportunity 
to enlarge. 

Mr. Saunders. Can you conceive that if the amateur is restored 
to his prewar status, particularly having in mind the developments 
that have occurred during the period in which he has been shut out, 
that there can be any possible danger from the commercial interests 
or to the national security of the country ? 

Mr. Maxim. There can be no danger from the amateur if the law 
is enforced. 

Mr. Saunders. And, again, now with respect to the development 
in this field : Of all the fields of possible discovery is not this one in 
which the very greatest opportunity ought to be given to every one 
by reason of the fact that the fascination of this field and the appeal 
that it makes to the inquiring, intelligent mind ? 

Mr. Maxim. Absolutely; yes, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. Then nothing ought to be done, in your judgment, 
as a matter of broad policy, to throw over or to restrict the very 
largest possibility of inquiry and development in this particular field 
of development and discovery ? 

Mr. Maxim. Absolutely ; no, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. Just to put this in the record : It has been devel- 
oped before — in these high-power transmitting stations they use 
a wave of very great length, and no development, however great, no 
, number of operators of an amateur character, however large it may 
be, operating under any system of sensible regulations that may be 
provided can interfere with the work of these high-power stations? 

Mr. Maxim. No, sir. 

Mr. Saunder. As I understand from the answer you gave a mo- 
ment ago, it is just a physical impossibility? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 



GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 261 

Mr. Saunders. What is the longest wave length that the amateur, 
with the instruments that he has to use, could send ? 

Mr. Maxim. Transmit? 

Mr. Saunders. Yes ; transmit or send, having in mind the ordinary 
amateur instruments. 

Mr. Maxim. It might be that an amateur could get up as high as 
1,000 meters. It would be a rank infraction of the law. He is only 
allowed 200 meters, but he might be able with his chicken coop far 
enough away from the house to get up to 1,000 meters, but that would 
be a very long wave for him. 

Mr. Saunders. You think with some of the crude apparatus you 
speak of so many of them using he might get up as high as 1,000? 

Mr. Maxim. It might be that he could get up to 1,000. The long- 
distance stations that you speak of operate on wave lengths in 
excess of 10,000. 

Mr. Saunders. I am developing the facts in the matter. With 
these very great wave lengths, you say would be 1,000 

Mr. Maxim (interposing). That would be the very highest I could 
imagine for an amateur. 

Mr. Saunders. Let us presuppose that all the conditions were ex- 
ceedingly favorable for him to get up to such a length as that — 
1,000 — would that interfere with stations operating with wave lengths 
of 10,000 meters ? 

Mr. Maxim. No, sir; absolutely no. 

Mr. Saunders. So that scientifically the danger of interference be- 
tween the amateurs, however much their operations may be developed, 
and these high-power stations is practically excluded? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Greene. I would like to ask one question. 

The CHAnjMAN. Right in that connection, Mr. (ireene, if you will 
allow me, I was going to ask, How about the use of a wave length 
exceeding 200 meters interfering with the wave lengths necessary for 
ship-to-shore business in the saving of human life ? 

Mr. Maxim. The ship wave length is 600 meters, and the amateur 
is allowed 200 under existing law. You see there is a wide difference. 

The Chatkman. But we have got to keep within limits in the use 
of wave lengths less than that necessary for ship-to-shore business? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir; that is a reasonable request to safeguard life 
at sea. 

Mr. Saunders. He would just have to violate the law, as I under- 
stand, if he got lip to a wave length that would interfere with that 
ship-to-shore business? 

Mr. Maxim. Oh, yes, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. This amendment which is proposed here, which has 
the sanction now of the Navy Department, would not keep him fi*om 
violating that law, yet they seem to be satisfied with that amend- 
ment? He could still violate the law; the amendment would not 
stand in his wav. 

9 

Mr. Maxim. If he intended to violate the law, I do not think any 
amendment would stop him. 

Mr. Saunders. So that possibility that some trouble may be caused 
by violation of the law exists as well under this amendment as it 
would under the prewar conditions? 



262 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OP RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Maxim. Of course. 

Mr. Saunders. And yet they are satisfied to take the chances under 
this amendment for the future? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir: it is the best we can do to pass a law and 
endeavor to enforce those laws. 

Mr. Saunders. I do not know that this is exactly a scientific ques- 
tion. It may be an estimate of what we may call probabilities, Mr. 
Maxim, but speaking broadly, with a system of amateurs rigidly reg- 
ulated by law with sufficient power behind it to enforce it and cut 
down to a maximum wave length of 200 meters, do you regard it as 
a matter to be seriously considered — the question oi possible inter- 
ference by such a system as that with the ship-to-shore communi- 
cations? 

Mr. Maxim. No, sir; I do not. 

Mr. (jREENE. What I wanted to ask was this question : When you 
get away from the shore, get where you would not possibly have any 
trouble with the ship-to-shore stations, in the central part of the 
United States, whether or no there would be more possibilities of 
development of the wireless in ordinary trade there, and would that 
be possible without any interference with the Navy or anybody else? 

Mr. Maxim. No, sir: if you get into the interior you are getting 
away from the seacoast. 

Mr. Greene. Could there not be an amendment put into this bill 
to prgvide for an extension along that line, independent of striking 
at amateurs? We want to make this bill so as to have it of some use. 
We want any advantage we can get from it ; we want to broaden out 
everything: we do not want to narrow the proposition. That is an 
objection I make to the bill; that it narrows the proposition too 
much. I want to broaden it out, even if the amateurs enlarge their 
possibilities or anybody else who has sufficient brains to enlarge its 
possibilities. I do not want to have the brain crushed out of it by a 
dynasty that becomes like autocracy. 

Mr. Hadley. If I understand your statement, Mr. Maxim, as be- 
tween the amateur and the ship to shore there is no conflict under 
present law, if enforced ? 

Mr. Maxim. That is right. 

Mr. Hadley. If this bill is passed, so far as vou are concerned, the 
situation is satisf actorv ? 

Mr. Maxim. It has been proven bv the last five years of experience. 

Ml*. Hadley. Then this proposed amendment which is offered by 
the amateurs is merely offered for self -protection to reconcile the 
difference between the amateurs and the proponents of the bill? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Leiilbacii. The regulation of the amateur business in the 
])ast, before the war broke out, when the amateurs were operating, was 
in the hands of the Department of Commerce? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Lehlbach. And the relations between that department and 
the amateurs were cordial and satisfactory ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Lehlbach. Have the amateurs any preference to express as 
to whether they care to continue under the Department of Commerce, 
or would they be agreeable to being transferred to the Navy Depart- 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 263 

ment, with whom they have not been in contact as they have been 
with the Department of Commerce? 

Mr. Maxim. My judgment leads me to answer that by saying that 
they would like very much to go back to their "old love." [Ap- 
plause.] 

Mr. Saunders. One question, Mr. Maxim, which has been sug- 
gested by others asked: With respect to this possible commercial -use, 
what I would style the internal commercial use of wireless in the 
United States, as, for instance, two concerns, one located in Washing- 
ton here and the other in Lynchburg, in my State, where they have 
set up a wireless apparatus for the purpose of communication, they 
would use the same length of wave for that purpose as the amateur, 
would they not, or they could be required to use the same wave 
length ? 

Mr. Maxim. Why, no; I think they would be entitled to use the 
ship wave length. If they were restricted to that, they could cause 
no interference with any Government commercial station operating 
on the allowed commercial wave length. 

Mr. Saunders. And having in mind your testimony as to the wave 
length, as stated to you by the gentleman whose experience you used 
by way of illustration, a wave length of 200 meters would be enough 
to allow for very considerable commercial development of the wire- 
less — I mean scientifically speaking? 

Mr. Maxim. Scientifically, it would, but not commercially. 

Mr. Saunders. You would require a greater wave length? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. Could that wave length be increased so as to be 
commercially feasible and still below the ship-to-shore wave length? 

Mr.MAxiM. There is a well-known distance between 200 meters 
and 600 meters. 

Mr. Saunders. You mean you can go all the way up, for instance, 
to 500 meters and still be outside of interference with the ship-to- 
shore communications? 

Mr. Maxim. At 500 meters both stations must have quite efficient 
apparatus because they are getting close together, you see. 

Mr. Saunders. Yes; but they would still be easily outside a wave 
length that would interfere with the ship-to-shore communication ? 

Mr. ALvxiM. Yes, sir ; those 500 meters would not interfere with 600 
meters if the apparatus was efficient. 

Mr. Saunders. What is the relation between wave lengths and the 
possible distances over which they may be heard; for instance what 
is the range, under favorable conditions, of the 200-meter wave 
length on land? 

Mr. Maxim. Why, the 200-meter wave length has certain physical 
characteristics which make it impracticable as a regular thing to 
cover any distant e. 

Mr. Saunders. That is what I want to bring out, the eflFects. 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir; 200 meters is not sufficient to go any dis- 
tance, as a re<iuhir thing. 

Mr! Saukders. I will put it this way, to get down to a concrete 
illustration : Here is Washington and Baltimore. Would a 200- 
meter wave length between these two cities be available for every- 
day commercial use? 



264 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Maxim. No, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. You need a greater wave length than that? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. That is about 40 miles? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. For the purposes of satisfactory communication 
between two points, between cities that distance from each other, 
having reference to day-in-and-day-out weather conditions, what 
would be the required wave length? 

Mr. Maxim. The practice in the past has been to make it 600 
meters. 

Mr. Saunders. You require 600 meters for a distance of 40 miles? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. The wave length which we are limited to 
is almost an experimental wave length; it is not a practical wave 
length for the conduct of business. 

Mr. Saunders. Six hundred meters would cover, you said, that 
distance of 40 miles. How much more than 40 miles could that be 
satisfactorily used for? 

Mr. Maxim. Six hundred meters? 

Mr. Saunders. Yes. 

Mr. Maxim. Well, now, the question is one of power. If you used 
a half kilowatt, or 1 kilowatt, or 2 kilowatts, for instance, 2 kilo- 
watts would transmit 600 meters farther than 1 kilowatt. 

Mr. SAuNEteRS. When you say "Use more power" in your trans- 
mission, with respect to wave length, it does not make any more 
capable of interference with the wave lengths above it, does it? 

Mr. Maxim. No, sir: power does not change wave lengths, neces- 
sarily. 

Mr. Saunders. And does not increase the interference? 

Mr. Maxim. No, sir; interference is a function of wave lengths, 
not power. 

Mr. Saunders. Then, using a wave length of 600 meters for com- 
mercial purposes, you increase the range, as I understand, of your 
wave length and therefore its capacity for commercial use is just 
as you put more and more power behind it? 

Mr. Maxim. It has that effect, sir, but you have not expressed it 
quite scientifically. Let me try to explain it this way. Usually on a 
200-meter wave length, where the waves are very close together, they 
say that it has " to hit it " so often that it loses a lot of its efficiency 
before it gets there ; whereas with 600 meters it does not have to take 
so many steps or does not have to hit it so often, and when it arrives 
it is stronger; that is a very homely expression. [Laughter.] 

Mr. Saunders. This is a homely committee, and we want to get in- 
formation in a homely way. [Laughter.] But, still, with respect to 
the facilities and satisfactory character of its use, you can appre- 
ciably increase the sending radius, I will say, of that 600-meter wave 
length by advancing the power that is behind it? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. Without suggesting 200 meters, or 40 miles, as a 
reasonable limit, with respect to that 600-meter wave, if you put 
enough power behind it, what would be the distance over which that 
could be reasonably used and satisfactorily used? 

Mr. Maxim. Six hundred meters at sea ? 
Mr. Saunders. I mean on land. 



GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF BADIO dOMMUNIOATION. 265 

, Mr. Maxim. Six hundred meters on land and using a 3-kilowatt, 
shall we say ? 

Mr. Saunders. Yes. 

Mr. Maxim. I suppose it could be counted upon to transmit a great 
deal of business a matter of 250 or 350 miles. 

Mr. Saunders. All of the information given in these answers are in 
reference to present conditions in this art; it is the hope, I suppose, of 
the men who are working on it that any day you may see develop- 
ments, arrive at the perfection of devices which would increase all of 
these ranges and the certainty of transmission, receiving, etc. ; that is 
part of the development which you are all working on, is it not? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir; a great many of us amateurs have already 
partly developed inventions which will do just what you say. 

Mr. Saunders. And the very obvious reason that you want the 
freest opportunity given to the work of every one along these lines is 
that you may hasten the day in which these improvements will be 
secured ? 

Mr. Maxim. That is the burden of my mind. 

Mr. Greene. What is the reason the ship-to-shore stations can not 
be .used with more than 600 wave lengths and therefore leave more 
space below ; instead of narrowing it, enlarge it for the development of 
business generally? This is going to be a business proposition, not 
a naval proposition alone. Wliy not broaden its width and put the 
Navy up higher than the 600 wave length? Why should the Navy 
desire to come down on that low level when they do not need it ? Is 
there not some zone between these high-power stations ? Is there not 
a greater opportunity than for them to use the radio at 600 wave 
lengths which will shut out the ordinary individual or the business 
men from using radio, which it is desired to develop? Why can they 
not go higher than 600 wave lengths and not be interfering all the 
time? That is the situation as I gather it here. They would be 
better off, and there would be less trouble if they use the higher wave 
lengths. 

Mr. MAxnr. They already are higher; it goes as high as 16.000 
meters. 

Mr. (trekne. Oh, yes; they can go higher; but they kept down to 
GOO. They want this 600-wave length, as I understand it. 

The Chairman. That is low now. We fixed that in this committee 
in 1912. 

Mr. Greene. Yes; I understand. 
The Chairman. We fixed the limitation. 

Mr. Maxim. The limitations were very wisely fixed, if I may say, 
in the judgment of amateurs. 

The Chairman. The committee thinks so. 

Mr. Greene. I am not talking of the amateur end of it; I am talk- 
ing of these ship-to-shore stations, those at 600 meters. That is cor- 
rect, is it not? 

Mr. Maxim. Merchant marine, I think, principally, sir; the Navy 
uses a longer. 

Mr. Greene. I know; but the Navy bought up these ship-to-shore 
stations, and have them under their control, and they are going to 
develop them with the merchant marine. They bought these from 
the Marconi (^o. and intend to use them. Now, they are in the way of 
further development above this 200-wave length that you can vise viv 



266 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

the amateur business, and we want to get at something between them. 
Why can not they get up higher and use it on ship to shore, say, 
higher than 600, without damage to anybody and with benefit to 
themselves ? 

Mr. Maxim. I do not know that I can give those reasons exact 
enough, but I do know that the records of the hearings before this 
committee when the law of 1912 was passed will show that reason, sir. 

Mr. Greene. We may have grown some since 1912. I thought there 
might have been development and that Ave would know something 
more about it now. 

Mr. Maxim. I do not know those reasons. I was wondering why 
the Navy stepped up or down or over 600 meters. I do not believe I 
am competent to answer that. 

Mr. Edmonds. I think that was agreed to by the international con- 
ference. 

The Chairman. No; that was agreed to by the cominercial inter- 
ests — the Navy, the merchant marine interests, and the amateurs, all 
around — and it has proven very satisfactory. 

Mr. Bankhead. Mr. Maxim, can you tell approximately how many 
wireless operators there are in employment in the United States — I 
mean, using that art as a regular means of livelihood, in the Navy aiid 
in commercial pursuits? 

Mr. Maxim. I would have to guess at that ; I do hot know. There 
must be upward of 4,000 amateurs or ex-amateurs. 

Mr. Bankhead. Referring to your observation of a few moments 
ago, in answer to Judge Saunders's question, that you did not think 
there was very much chance for continental, commercial development 
along this line, the possibilities, then, for cheaper employment as a 
permanent means oi livelihood by wireless operators will be neces- 
sarily limited to the scheme now in operation, to a large extent ? 

Mr. Maxim. So far as I can see now. 

Mr. Goodwin. What is the greatest distance that wireless messages 
can now be sent successfully ? 

Mr. Maxi]m. I presume you refer to those stations 

Mr. Goodwin (interposing). Any station. What is the greatest 
distance any message has ever been sent successfully ? 

Mr. Maxim. You are taxing my memory, but I have heard these 
experts say that they have heard here in Washington the radio sta- 
tion at Cavite Bay, Manila, Philippine Islands, which must be a 
distance approaching 7,000 miles. 

Mr. Saunders. Mr. Maxim, it is a rather interesting matter to me 
that Mr. Greene referred to. They have agreed upon a wave length 
for ship-to-shore communication, but there was no particular logic 
in the wave length they agreed on: it was just that it was universally 
agreed on. It can be pushed up, we will say. to 1,200 meters, and it 
was universally agreed it would be just as satisfactory for these pur- 
poses, I suppose, at the present agreed wave length, or would it not ? 

Mr. Maxim. Oh, yes. The longer the wave length the better the 
conditions for long-distance work. 

Mr. Saunders. Was this wave length agreed on at the time the 
agi'eement was made one that was thought to be the best at that time 
in view of the then state of advancement of the art or was it this uni- 
versal acquiescence in that particular wave length without any con- 
sideration ? 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 267 

Mr. Maxim. I think it was general acquiescence. Judge Alexander 
would Imow more about that than I do. 

The Chairman. I will read Article II of the service regiilations 
annexed to the International Wireless Telegraph Convention of Lon- 
don. (Reading:) 

Akt. II. Wave lengths. — Two wave lengths, one of 300 meters and the other 
of 600 meters, are authorized for general public service. Every coastal sta- 
tion opened to such service shall be equipped in such manner as to be able to 
use these two wave lengths, one of which shall be designated as the normal 
wave length of the station. During the whole time that a coastal station is 
open it shall be in condition to receive calls according to its normal wave length. 
* * * In addition, each Government may authorize in coastal stations the 
employment of other wave lengths designed to insure long-range service or any 
service other than for public correspondence established in conformity with 
the provisions of the convention under the reservation that such wave lengths 
do not exceed 600 meters or that they do exceed 1,600 meters. 

In particular, stations used exclusively for sending signals designed to de- 
termine the position of ships shall not employ wave lengths exceeding 150 
metera 

Of course, we had that in view in framing the act of 1912. 

jAr. Saunders. That just gives the agreement; that does not answer 
the question I was asking, which was '.whether there was acqui- 
escence in that particular wave length in order to get a universal 
agreement rather than that particular wave length was suggested as 
the one best wave length of all the other wave lengths that might be 
suggested for the purposes they have in view, and I understand the 
witness to say it was rather an universal acquiescence to get an agree- 
ment than that scientific necessities suggested that wave length. So 
far as you know, Mr. Maxim, I understand you to say that there is no 
reason, scientifically speaking, why that Avave length could not be 
advanced to 1,000 meters or. 1,200 meters and be fully efficient for all 
the purposes for which it was intended. 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir; it could be. 

Mr. Saunders. If there was that universal agreement on the part 
of the nations in that wave length ? 

Mr. Maxim. That is the whole thing, universal agreement. 

Mr. Saunders. And as that advanced you would get, of course, 
farther and farther away from any possibility of interference by 
domestic development along such lines as I have indicated ? 

Mr. Maxim. Precisely; yes, sir, you would. 

The Chairman. That would mean the equipment of ships with a 
higher power station than they have now, would it not ? 

Mr. Maxim. Not power ; it would reduce wave lengths. 

The Chairman. Would they not be required to use higher power 
to use the greater wave length ? 

Mr. Maxim. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Would a 1-kilowatt station use the same wave 
length as a 2-kilowatt plant? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. I might say that one-eight kilowatt would 
send on any wave length and 10 kilowatt could send on any wave 
length. 

The Chairman. AVhat would be the reason why a 10-kilowatt plant 
should be used ratjier than the 1-kilowatt plant? 

Mr. Maxim. Distance. 

9C770— IJ)— I'T :i <\ 



268 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

The Chair^ian. Very well. The lower — the 600-meter service- 



f or ship to shore and most purposes for saving human life is used ; is 
that true? 

Mr. IVLvxiM. I think, Judge, if you will go back in the discussions, 
I think we said that the average distance between the masts of the 
average ship makes it such that 600 meters are the easiest wave 
lengths to get and fits the average ship the best. I think that was 
the thing which governed in arriving at 600 meters. 

The Chairman. What we wanted was some standard that would 
be practicable. 
, Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And that could be used by the average ship. 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And in the interest of saving human life. 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. That is, the crews on small ships should avail 
themselves of this art in saving life as well as on the large ships 
which might carry the larger antenna. * 

Mr. Humphreys. Mr. Chairman, is not this a fact, that the 600 
wave length is simply used for calls on these ships, and, as a rule, as 
soon as they come m contact they shift to a different wave length to 
carry on their communications? 

Mr. Maxim. I think that is the practice among ships; yes, sir; 
because on entering New York harbor you can easily see there might 
be a great many ships wanting to communicate at the same time, and 
they have to arrange the signal between themselves which says, for 
example, " let us change to 500 meters." 

Mr. Hu3iPHREYS, Or 1,500, or whatever it might be? 

Mr, Maxim. Whatever they agree on. 

Mr. Humphreys. So that they can then carry on the conversation 
on these ships with a very much longer wave length than 600? 

Mi\ Maxim. Yes, sir. 
- }^li\ Humphreys. And the practice is they really use this 600-wave 
length very little? 

Mr. Maxii^i. Only enough to gain contact. You have got to be 
listening in on the universal pre-arranged waA^e length or you will 

not hear your call. 

Mr. Humphreys. As soon as you hear it you shift to some thing so 
that if somebody else wants to call, the 600-wave legth will be avail- 
able ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HuinPHREYS. I want to ask you some questions that were sug- 
gested to my mind by some of the other questions a^ked. Is it easy 
to locate a A'iolator of the regulations among the amateurs ? Suppose 
an amateur should begin to use 600 or 800 or 1,000, would it be easy 
to locate him so that he could be apprehended? 

Mr. Maxi^f. Yes, sir: there are records which show it has been 

done. 

Mr. Humphreys. So that there is no particular difficulty; in other 
words, it is not harder to locate a violator of this law than many 
other laws that we write upon the statute books? 

Mr. Maxim. Exactly. 

Mr. Humphreys. You did not seem to think this overland business 
ivoiild ever develop very much commercially, and one reason you gave 



GOVERNMEISTT CONTBOL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 269 

was the lack of secrecy ; another was the matter of interference of the 
weather or the unfavorable weather conditions, as I understood it ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. Is that what you call static interference ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. From the way word was used here, I wondered 
what it meant. 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir ; that means electrical weather disturbances. 

Mr. Humphreys. Have not some inventions already been made to 
eliminate that or lessen that static interference considerably? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir; there have, very recently. 

Mr. Humphreys. And I suppose it is your hope and belief that in 
the reasonably near future other improvements will come that will 
reduce it, if not entirely eliminate it ? 

Mr. Maxim. I feel absolutely sure of it ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. I would like to ask you about a part of your ap- 
paratus. I do not know what you call it, but I would call it a " re- 
flector." I understand you have some sort of an instrument that you 
can attach to your sending machine that will direct the waves in cer- 
tain directions? 

Mr. Maxim. Some of us thought we had that; yes, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. I would like to know about it myself. Have you 
or have you not ? 

Mr. Maxim. Some of us have very good evidence that has been 
presented indicating that they can establish the direction of their 
greatest power ; by arranging the antenna they can make the greatest 
power go due east and due west and the minimum power go due 
north and due south. 

Mr. Humphreys. Some progress has been made along that line? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir ; there has. 

Mr. Humphreys. And I assume it is entirely right to say that all 
progress in that direction has not yet been made? 

Mr. Maxim. Oh, no. 

Mr. Humphreys. You spoke of an instrument that had been in- 
vented by an amateur named Armstrong, which you called the Arm- 
strong regenerating circuit. 

Mr. Maxim. We call it the Armstrong regenerating circuit; yes, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. Would it be possible, do you suppose, tp describe 
that to us so that what Judge Hardy described as " a simple citizen ^* 
could understand it? [Laughter.] 

Mr. Maxim. That would be quite a question, but I will do my 
best. I have asked my fellow engineers not to smile. 

Mr. Humphreys. The purpose of this is not idle. I should perhaps 
have waited until the hearing was over, and then asked you per- 
sonally to describe it to me. But in order to show to those who care 
to reacl the record that the amateurs are really doing an important 
work along this line, I think it desirable, if you can put this in words, 
so that the average Conorressman, who is a "simple citizen," can 
understand, it will help them. 

Mr. Christine. May I make a suggestion that Mr. Maxim be given 
a blackboard and chalk? I believe he could make this whole sub- 
ject of wireless as plain to this committee as to himself if he had a 
blackboard, particularly when he enters upon the subject of regener- 



270 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

ating circuit. It will then be very difficult for you to understand un- 
less he does it by means of a diagram. 

Mr. Maxim. Might I suggest that I try the words first? I think 
I can convey the idea by words so that it will be satisfactory to you. 

Mr. Armstrong in his experiment disclosed the fact that we had 
not before understood as thoroughly lis he that in a closed bulb, like 
an incandescent lamp, rigged up in a certain way, the energy will 
go across from one member to another, and can be made to pull a 
trigger, if you please, like the trigger of a gun, and thereby liberate 
considerable energy which vou have here [illustrating] in anv quan- 
tity you want. In other words, Mr. Armstrong discovered tliat this 
very feeble, infinitely feeble, electrical impulse, which comes in from 
points thousands of miles away and is led to your ears, is too feeble 
of itself to make an audible sound, but it is not too feeble, according 
to his arrangement, to "pull a trigger." 

This is not a scientific explanation; but it is what you want, I 
think. It was not strong enough to render itself audible but it was 
strong enough to pull the Armstrong trigger, and when the trigger 
was pulled it liberated this energy in this little battery here [illus- 
trating] and then he had something which would hear and his 
device made the inaudible audible. Does that convey the idea? 

Mr. Humphreys. Oh, yes ; it is very clear to me and is as technical 
as I could understand it. If you went into it deeper I would not be 
able to understand it. It is very interesting, and I can see the great 
value of that. That was the invention of an amateur ? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. There are others, of perhaps varying degrees of 
value, which are also the inventions of amateurs? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir. I could not tell you any more than I have 
told you without violating confidence; but I know a great many in- 
ventions which will be brought out within a j^ear or less time. 

Mr. Lehlbach. Is there not a device — called the heterodyne — 
which eliminates, in a large degree, interference from other messages 
excepting the one being received? 

Mr. Maxim. Yes, sir ; that is a very great improvement in eliminat- 
ing interference. 

Mr. Lehlbach. And the limit of development of that device has 
not been reached ? 

Mr. Maxim. By no means. 

Mr; Lehlbach. In other words, so that interference from other 
messages in the air can be largely eliminated and in the future will 
be still more eliminated ? 

Mr. Maxim.^ Just exactly ; yes, sir. 

Mr. White. I would like, Mr. Maxim, to clear up something that 
is in my mind, or perhaps I should address my question to some of 
the older members of the committee, but, as I understand it, in this 
London convention the United States was a party either directly or 
by ratification ? 

The Chairman. We had delegates. 

Mr. White. And the United States was a party to this London 
convention. As I understand it, we bound ourselves to apply the pro- 
visions of the present convention to all radio stations. Then, under 
Article II, there is a provision limiting wave lengths, which provides 
that two wave lengths, one of 600 meters and the other of 300 meters, 



GOVEENMENT CONTROL OP BADIO OOMMUNIOAHON. 271 

are authorized for general public use. The question I want to ask is 
how, in view of that convention to which we are a party, can we en- 
gage in the use of this wireless by the Government for any smaller 
wave lengths, as this bill proposes. It is a matter I do not under- 
stand, and I would be glad to have the witness or somebody explain 
that. 

The Chairman. I would suggest that we have representatives of 
the Navy here who will come back in rebuttal and take up and answer 
that question. 

I will call attention to the hearing before this committee on H. R. 
19350, in the last Confess, which were very full and complete, and I 
think it would be of interest to the conjmittee to read the statement 
of Mr. Edwin H. Armstrong, electrical engineer and specialist in 
wireless receiving apparatus, and the inventor of this apparatus to 
which Mr. Maxim has referred, and in which he says, page 202 : 

I have invented the regenerative audion receiver, which is the best inter- 
ference preventer that is known at the present time. It is nsed throughout 
the world in commercial and Government stations. 

I take it for granted that the members who want to inform them- 
selves will read it. 

Mr. Humphreys. I would like to ask the witness, if he cares to 
answer, this question : What is your opinion and the opinion of your 
organization on the proposition made by Mr. Nally the other day to 
have this matter regulated by a commission? 

Mr. Maxim. I should have to give that thorough thought. I had 
not thought of that. We had such very good regulation under the 
Department of Commerce that it would have to be pretty good to 
beat it. 

Mr. Greene. This is going into the Navy, not the Department of 
Commerce. 

Mr. Saunders. Mr. Maxim, one question in connection with the 
matter brought out by Mr. Humphreys in reference to the Armstrong 
invention : As I understand, that wave length comes in very feebly 
and pulls a trigger which releases stored energy, and that stored 
energy amplifies the feeble wave and makes it stronger; is that the 
way it works? 

Mr. Maxim. Exactly ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. We will now hear Mr. Hamilton. [After a 
^ause.] Gentlemen, I have just received word by telephone from 
the House that the presence of the members of this committee are 
desired on the floor. 

Mr. Edmonds. I have here a petition from a number of amateur 
operators which was handed to me by Henry A. Clark, Member of 
Congress from Pennsylvania, who asked whether we could have it 
placed in the record. It is from the radio department, Andrew Jack- 
son School, Erie, Pa., and dated December 10, 1918, and is signed by 
seven members of the school. 

The Chairman. We will be glad to file the petition for the infor- 
mation of the committee. 

We will now take a recess, without objection, until 2 o'clock this 
afternoon. 

(Thereupon, at 12.45 o'clock p. m., the committee took a recess 
until 2 o'clock this afternoon.) 



272 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

AFTER RECESS. 

The committee reassembled, pursuant to the taking of recess, at 
2 o'clock p. m. 

Mr. Lehlbach. Mr. Chairman, in view of Mr. Maxim's interest in 
the Armstrong invention and the exposition of it given by the pre- 
ceding witness, I thought it would be of interest to read what Prof. 
Pupin had to say about the invention, as it is found in the hearings 
held on the previous bill before the committee. This is what Prof. 
Pupin said, as it is found on page 158 of the hearings of January 18 : 

This young student by a simple transposition of circuits made ttie same audion 
5,000 times as sensitive. With what result? With the result that everybody is 
using it to-day, and all the operating companies pay this young man a modest 
royalty. Not a very large royalty, because the operating companies are not 
making money — not much, anyhow. They can not afford to pay more than 
a very modest royalty. But it enables this young man to support his mother 
and two sisters. The United States Navy uses this invention more than any- 
body else. According to the information which an officer of the Navy gave to 
myself, they were using it since January, 1914. And they had it at this time — 
and this was a year ago — in something like 40 stations. They have not paid a 
cent to this young man, and they do not intend to. They all tell him, " You can 
go to the Court of Claims." 

The Chairman. Here is what Mr. Armstrong said in the hearing 
of 1917, beginning on page 201 : 

Mr. Gbiggs. What is your business, Mr. Armstrong? 

Mr. Abmstrong. I am an electrical engineer who makes a specialty of wireless 
receiving apparatus. 

Mr. Gbiggs. Have you made any invention or discoveries in that field? 

Mr. Abmstrong. I have invented the regenerative audion receiver, which is 
the best interference preventer that is known at the present time. It is used 
throughout the world in commercial and Government stations. 

I would like to ask Mr. Maxim if that is the instrument to which 
he refers? Mr. Maxim does not seem to be here just now. I will 
ask Lieut. Cooper if that is the instrument. 

Lieut. Cooper. That is the same one. 

The Chairman. We will now hear Mr. Hamilton. 

STATEMENT OF ME. FEANCIS F. HAMILTON, OF INDIANAPOLIS, 
IND., REPRESENTINa THE HOOSIER RADIO CLUB OF INDIAN- 
APOLIS. 

Mr. Hamilton. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I represent the 
Hoosier Scout Radio Club, of Indianapolis, and have recently been 
an Army instructor in the Signal Corps camp at Camp Purdue in 
Indiana. On December 1 that camp was discontinued, and so I came 
to Washington to work on this bill. 

Mr. Maxim has covered very thoroughly the technical side of the 
subject as the amateur sees it, and I want to present a few fact& fur- 
ther that he has not covered as thoroughly as I think it should have 
been covered. 

We have been hearing about large things and money values run- 
ning up into the millions of dollars. Now, the amateurs are hfere. 
We have small stations, and we are in the cents column instead of the 
dollar column, as far as the money goes. But you have heard the 
old saying " Take care of the pennies and the dollars will grow." So 
we say : "Take care of the amateurs and wireless will grow." 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OP RADIO COMMUNICATION. 273 

Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I want you to get the point of view 
of the amateurs. We have been hearing about the Marconi Co. 
Each amateur is a little Marconi Co. ; each man or boy is president, 
secretary, treasurer, owne^, operator, and probably the inventor of 
his complete station. And what is he in business for? He is in 
business for profit, of course. It develops his mental side, his 
mechanical and electrical experience; his skill is developed in han- 
dling messages and tuning through static. I refer there to interfer- 
ence through storms. He is constantly gaining knowledge, as most 
amateurs do. 

An ordinary* amateur station ma}^ cost from $8.50 up. Most of the 
amateurs spend from $20 up to several thosuand dollars for a com- 
plete sending station; they spend as much, sometimes, as several 
thousand dollars for wireless junk and apparatus. I put the word 
junk in there because there has been a lot of that sold to amateurs, 
and the amateurs have been imposed upon by some manufacturers 
putting out apparatus that is not worth putting on the market. We 
have been imposed upon by some of the apparatus of the German 
manufacturer which has been allowed to bo sold on the market, and 
the amateurs were stung. Does not the amateur want a profit ? Of 
course he does. Each small amateur is, as I sai^l, a small Maic(mi 
Co., and he expects a legitimate profit. 

If I may take the time of the (ommittee, Mr. Chairman. I shall 
enumerate some of the profits. I have had many a father say to me, 
"My, I am glad Johnny is interested in wireless/' T asked why? 
The father continued, "Why, we always know where Jc^hnny i>; he 
never runs around and gets into mischief. He is always here at 
home working.'- Is that not a profit to the community and to the 
family, and to Johnny? If I may digress here for a monuMU. I 
would like to tell you some of the actual facts that have come under 
my observation in regard to some of the little fellows down in the 
slum district in Indianapolis, who have been intei'ested in wireless. 
I have been in some of their homes, and back in a dark corner this 
little fellow will be at work, using a little receiving outfit, the numey 
to purchase which has been obtained by selling newspa})ers, or in a 
similar way. There he is off in that room listening to messages, 
hoping that some day he may have a sending outfit himself. That 
is a wonderful proposition, it seems to me, to see those little fellows 
working with so much enthusiasm and so nnich interest, little fellows 
whose fathers and ^nothers have had practically no education, in- 
terested in such a wonderful science as this. Their studv and work 
IS ffoing to develop them and broaden their minds, and some of them 
will, in that way, get an ambition to go to college, and probably be- 
come radio engineers, as a few have already dcme, Avho have come 
under my instructions. 

Many and many a boy who has become an electrical engineer has 
had a start in wireless. He learned the fundamentals when he was 
15 or 16 years old, down in his wireless room. 

My third point is this: In time of war where did the Xavy look 
for operators ? You can answer that as well as I. 

My fourth point is this: It takes years to learn to be good at any- 
thing, any profession, if you please; to be a good lawyer, or a good 
doctor: tluit is even more truly the case with wireless telegraphy. 



274 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Imagine taking a bunch of farmers and trying to teach them wire- 
less. I had some experience in doing that. Our first group of men 
were drafted men. They were selected *by a selective system, and 
nearly all of them had been amateur operators before. Before they 
got through the course they were all good operatoi's. They had the 
fundamentals and after they were taught how to handle the Signal 
Corps apparatus they were very good operators. 

Our next group oi men were dratfed men, drafted promiscuously, 
according to number, without any idea of ever knowing anything 
about wireless. Most of them came off of farms, and we had these 
men under training for 13 weeks, and when they got through they 
knew less than when they started. That is the trouble in training 
men who do not have any incentive for this kind of work and who 
have had no experience. It iakes men who have had some experience, 
such as the amateurs have had, two or three years to become an expert 
operator. There is one feature I want particularly to refer to, and 
that is that it is very important to the United States Government to 
have these amateurs coming on, and to have them in readiness in case 
of a national emergency siich as we have recently passed through. 

Mr. Humphreys. There is not any special reason why a boy on a 
farm may not learn wireless as readily as a boy in the slums, is there? 

Mr. Hamilton. Absolutely not. I was raised on a farm- myself, 
and I began my first amateur set on a farm, in the old woodshed. 

Then, it is very profitable for Uncle Sam to have a lot of operators 
coming along all the time, if he needs them, and he will need them 
if we are going to have the great merchant marine the papers tell 
us about. 

Another great profit to an amateur is the fostering of ambition. 
Many amateurs dream of the day when they may be on a large ship 
at sea operating a wireless station. With that m view, what is the 
chance of amateurs operating ship stations after they have fulfilled 
the requirements if this bill passes? Why, an amateur would have 
to join the Navy first and put himself under military authority in 
order to develop his commercial profession and ambition. I ask you 
gentlemen is that desirable, and will amateurs look upon this course 
as desirable ? I do not believe they will. 

Now, I want to say something in regard to the question of patents. 
I have been working on some patents myself, and I can give you my 
viewpoint in regard to patents. 

The question of patents was so well defined on yesterday by Mr. 
Griggs that it is almost unnecessary for me to say much in addition. 
However, I want to point out that any one of these amateurs might 
stumble on some new, fundamental principle, as Mr. Armstrong did, 
that would revolutionize the development of radio, we will say, for 
example, in sending sets on ships. If this amateur should get a 
good patent, and we will presume he would, he could get capital 
interested in it, and that is not hard to do in these days, and he w^ould 
have and should have the right to place his improved sets on ships. 
Under the United States laws I should think he should have that 
right, and they will want to buy the patents. 

Mr. Humphreys. What do you mean by having the right to place 
his apparatus on a ship ? 

Mr. Ha^iilton. If you should get a patent on radio apparatus 
which would be a fundamental patent, you ought to have the right 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 275 

to use that without going to the only bidder, who would be the 
Secretary of the Navy. There ought to be more than one bidder on 
that. In other words, if the Department of Commerce was operating 
a merchant marine, and the Secretary of the Navy was operating 
the Navy, you would have two departments competing, and then a 
third person might come along, and he might have' some ships, and 
you would have another party to deal with. The point is that would 
give you another opportunity. 

Mr. Humphreys. If the shipowner is agreeable ? 

Mr. HAjMilton. If the shipowner is agreeable, yes; which he 
would be if the station only cost one-third what it generally would 
cost, and then the rentals could be less. 

Mr. Hadley. You want a broader market for the inventor ? 

Mr. Hamilton. A broader market for the inventor than there 
would be if this bill should go through. 

Mr. Hardy. Would there be any difference in the breadth of your 
market if a private monopoly controlled it? 

Mr. Hamilton. I should say there would not be so much in the 
breadth of the market as the opportunity to get the greatest amount 
of profit out of that particular invention. If you have half a dozen 
men all developing inventions and half a dozen people willing to 
take them, you are bound to get more money than if there are only 
one or two men. 

Mr. Hardy. Suppose there was only one man, and that man repre- 
sents a private monopoly. 

Mr. Hamilton. You would have to take what he gave you for it. 

Mr. Hardy. Would it be any better if it was a private monopoly 
that if it was the Government? 

Mr. Hamilton. That is a question I could not answer, because I 
<lo not know what the private monopoly might be. 

Mr. I^ardy. If either the private monopoly or the Government 
were altruistic in connection with these things, they might help you ? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes. 

Mr. Hardy. But, as a matter of experience, is the private monopoly 
more liberal than a Government monopoly to inventors ? 

Mr. Hamilton. I should sa}^ so. 

Mr. Hardy. Have you ever had any experience ? 

Mr. Hamilton. I have not sold any patents, but that would be 
my feeling in the matter. If I go to the Government to sell a patent, 
there is a lot of red tape to go through with. 

Mr. Hardy. And the Government- is not interested in getting the 
last dollar out of your patent. Usually they are interested in the 
public welfare, while private interests would be interested in get- 
ting a profit. Is not that, to some extent, the difference between the 
two? 

Mr. Hamilton. The Navy Department is interested in the public 
welfare, and the private monopoly would be interested in their own 
welfare. 

Mr. Hardy. In their own profits? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes. 

Mr. Hardy. The Navy Department would be interested in every 
improvement for the purpose of helping to protect life at sea ? 

Mr. Hamilton. Thev certainlv would. 



276 GOVERNMENT OONTBOL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Hardy. And prodded by Congress and by public sentiment, 
would they not be disposed to adopt every new invention that would 
help to protect life at sea? 

Mr. Hamilton. In the case of Apgar, that got all these messages 
from the. German station, there were naval stations all around that, 
and they should have found out that there was a leak there, but they 
did not. 

Mr. Hardy. I do not raise any question in regard to that. That 
is not a question that has anything to do with the marketing of your 
invention. You were talking about having a customer to buy your 
inventions, and you said you would rather have competitors for the 
purchase of your invention, that everybody would, if you had any- 
thing to sell. My point is if you had but one buyer, would he likely 
be more liberal with you if he was a private buyer than he would be 
if he was a representative of the Government? 

Mr. Hamilton. It seems to me it has been brought out that the 
Marconi Co. — that we will consider as a monopoly — paid Prof. 
Pupin a million dollars for a certain patent which he developed. I 
do not know whether the Navy Department has paid out any money 
at all for patents. If they have, I do not know about it. 

The Chairman. Do you know of the Marconi Co. paying money 
for any patents except that one? 

Mr. Hamilton. No ; I do not. 

The Chairman. It is just absence of information on your part? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes. 

The Chairman. Your information is not based on very broad, 
accurate information? 

Mr. Hamilton. No; just on those two cases. I am trying to give 
it to you from my standpoint as an amateur. 

Mr. Hardy. You never knew of a private monopoly not taking 
over any patents at all? 

Mr. Hamh^ton. Yes; I have in mind the case of the National Cash 
Register Co., but that was before the Sherman antitrust hxw was in 
effect, I believe. 

We will say the improvement is such that a complete set would cost 
$1,000 instead of $3,000. Now, is not that an advantage to commerce, 
for the ship set rental would be less, and this amateur could, simply 
by competition, force a competing comi)any to buy liis sets or go out 
of business. Amateurs should liave that right. 

If I may say wliat I believe, I believe that in tlie future we shall 
see just sucli a thing happen, if the wireless business is not bottled and 
corked up by the Navy Department, as this bill proposes. I believe 
in the future we shall see this very thing happen, that due to the in- 
vention and improvements on ship sets and radio stations in the 
United States, that in three years there will be so much improvement 
that the old ones will all be scrapped and the new sets will be sold at 
a much cheaper price because of their efficiency, and the sets will not 
be so hirge and powerful as they used to be. 

Mr. Hardy. You continue to speak of com])etitors having to go out 
of business unless they should adopt these new sets. Have you not 
heard the testimony here of Mr. Newell, who says that the purpose 
of his company is to secure a monopoly, and the probabilities are 
that some private enterprise will have a monopoly unless the Govern- 
ment does. 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 277 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes; I heard that testimony. 

Mr. Hardy. Then where is the competitor coming in ? 

Mr. Hamilton. I figure they will not be able to maintain a monop- 
oly. I started with the supposition that the amateur would invent 
something which will revolutionize the ship stations, to begin with; 
with that supposition it would be necessary for either the Marconi 
Co. or some new company which might start up in competition with 
the Marconi Co. to buy those sets from this one firm. 

Mr. Hardy. Will you tell me what likelihood there would be of a 
new company starting up, when it takes now many millions of dol- 
lars to get into' the game? 

Mr. Hamilton. I do not agree with you on that. 

Mr. Hardy. Do you believe a new companjr could start without 

Mr. Hamilton (interposing). I am figuring on a manufacturing 
company selling the sets to the ship company. There might be a few 
people get together with a capital of $5,000 or $10,000 to manufacture 
the outfits. 

Mr. Hardy. I am not talking about manufacturing the sets. I am 
talking about establishing a wireless system that would compete with 
this company. In other words, you have a vast monopoly of a wire- 
less system operating in America and England and everywhere else. 
What chance is there for a competitor of that monopoly to start out 
and by buying better inventions, live? In other words, with your in- 
ventions, must you not go to the monopoly ? 

Mr. Hamilton. I would make them come to me. 

Mr. Hardy. How would you do that? 

Mr. Hamilton. Now, then, under this supposition the Marconi 
rental is now $1,000 a year. If I could get up an invention which 
would cost half as much as their ship sets, that would reduce the 
rental. I would certainly get two ships to start witli, to prove that 
this was satisfactory, and after I had done that 

Mr. Hardy (interposing). When your ships started out, how would 
thev have shore stations to communicate Avith thoni ? 

Mr. Hamh.ton. Under the law, we would have the right to com- 
municate with the shore stations. 

Mr. Hardy. You are sure that the privately owned monopolistic 
shore stations would cooperate with you? 

Mr. HA:\riLT0N. They would have to take the messages if we paid 
for them. 

Mr. Hardy. Have you ever seen a private small enterprise root out 
a monopoly by means of patents or other methods? 

Mr. Hamilton. There were a good many firms mentioned this 
morning that have started from nothing and have grown to be pretty 
good-sized businesses in this country selling apparatus, and they have 
been up against the Marconi Co. and other companies. 

Mr. Hardy. The Marconi Co. is not a manufacturing company, 
is it? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes: it is the largest in the world, and the other 
companies have sold a lot of apparatus. 

Mr. Hardy. As a manufacturer, has the Marconi Co. ever assumed 
pro))ortions that looked like monopoly ? 

Mr. Hamilton. Xot to my knowledge. 

The Chairman. They manufacture the apparatus on which they 
hold patents? 



278 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Hamilton. I think so, and I think some of those patents are 
used by other firms. 

The Chairman. They have to get a permit from the Marconi peo- 
ple to do that? 

Mr. Hamilton. I do not know about that. That may be true. 

It might be and is not unreasonable to believe that men on this com- 
mittee might get interested in wireless and become amateur operators. 
If that were true, I wonder if they would like to be under tne Navy 
Department or under the Department of Commerce ? We are of the 
unanimous opinion that we would much rather be under the Depart- 
ment of Commerce. 

Right here I would like to say a few words in regard to the amend- 
ment in section 3 of the proposed bill offered by the Navy Depart- 
ment for the purpose of satisfying the amateurs. The amendment, 
so far as the fundamental principle involved is concerned, is satisfac- 
tory to the amateurs. But I want to go on record as saying that I do 
not see any valid reason why the present law should be changed if the 
law is enforced. 

Mr. Hadley. Then the corollary of that would be, from your point 
of view, that even if this law be enacted an amateur should be excepted 
from its provisions rather than be regulated by the terms of that 
amendment ? 

Mr. Hamilton. If this bill should go through the way it is written, 
if they leave us the way we are it would be satisfactory. 

Mr. Hadley. You think they should be excepted from its provi- 
sions ? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes. 

Mr. Hadley. It has been represented to the committee that this 
amendment represents an agreement which is satisfactory to both 
sides. 

Mr. Hamilton. Mr. Maxim represents a certain number of ama- 
teurs. As I told you at the beginning, each amateur is a little com- 
pany of his own, and each man will have his own ideas. I think Mr. 
Maxim said himself this morning that if it were possible he would like 
to see the law left as it is, but if it were not possible to do that, he 
would agree to this amendment. 

Mr. Hadley. I think that was the effect of his testimony. 

Mr. Hamilton. We agree with that statement in his testimony. 

Mr. Beshlin. Then there is no agreement among the amateurs as 
to their policy ? 

Mr. ILvMiLTON. No absolute agreement, except that I have a few 
telegrams from the western associations agreeing to the points in the 
amendment that they object to. 

Mr. Beshlin. What proportion of the amateurs do they represent? 

Mr. Hamilton. I should say these telegrams represent 400 or 500 
of the western amateurs. Both of them come from the Chicago asso- 
ciation. I represent the Indianapolis association. There are a few 
points of this amendment I wanted to bring out in regard to the way 
it is written. If this amendment goes in it will probably go in in the 
way it is written, and it is not satisfactory the way it is written. In 
*he definition of the word amateur station it says, " The term amateur 
station means a station used for private practice or experiment in 
radio communications for profit." I tried to bring out that we only 
operate our stations for private profit. I would like to see that cut 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 279 

out ; that is, the word after the word communication, so that it would 
read, "The term amateur station means a station used for private 
practice or experiment in radio communications." The other part is 
not necessary, and it is misleading. 

The Chairman. Do you want the amateur stations operated for 
commercial profit? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes, sir; I' do want them operated for profit. We 
have been doing that. 

The Chairman. For commercial profit ? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes. 

The Chairman. And receive so much for messages sent and re- 
ceived ? 

Mr. Hamilton. It says here " practice or experiment in radio com- 
munications." Under the 1912 law we can not receive money for 
transmitting messages. We do not want to do that. The pront we 
want is in the experimental end of it. 

The Chairman. I think we will all agree to that, that we want to 
give you that opportunity. When you want to strike that out we have 
the right to infer that you want to engage in commercial business 
for profit. 

Mr. Hamilton. We do as experimenters. 

The Chairman. Then you say you do want to do that? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes. We do not want to get any money for trans- 
mitting messages. The only profit we want to get is on the experi- 
mental end. 

Mr. Beshlin. Is any charge made for instructing others who may 
want to learn the art? 

Mr. Hamilton. I have been conducting a radio plant for a number 
of years and have never charged a cent. I have been doing that 
through the Boy Scouts. Here in Washington there are a lot of 
schools which charge $75 a term foi: the instruction of amateurs. We 
do not do that. 

Mr. Hardy. There would be no objection to a charge for instruc- 
tion? 

Mr. Hamilton. I should not think so, but it has been my pleasure 
to do it free of charge, because I felt I was doing my duty. I have 
no way of Imowing just what the Navy Department had in mind 
when they proposed this amendment, but I do know that when this 
bill was drafted it was so written that amateurs were put clear out 
of business. If you will look at the amendment in the light that each 
amateur is a small company operated for gain or profit to its owners, 
you will see that the Navy Department's definition is "The term 
* amateur station ' means a station used for private practice or experi- 
ment in radio communication and not operated for profit in either 
sending or receiving signals." Just see what it says, " Not operated 
for profit." Webster says profit means "Any increase of goods from 
labor or exertion, comprehending the exposition of anything valu- 
able, intellectual, or corporal." In this light Ave are cut out by the 
yery definition of the word ' amateur.' I say cut the amendment short 
after the word communication. It will be sufficient, and no question 
will arise, as I see it. 

There is another point in this amendment that I would like to call 
your attention to. The amendment says : " That when such amateur 
stations are licensed for receiving purposes only." Under the present 



280 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OP RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

law we are not licensed for receiving purposes. That is misleading. 
It also says " No operator's license shall be required for the operator 
in charge of or operating such stations." There is an apparent con- 
tradiction there. It says when a license is required no license shall 
be required. 

Mr. Edmonds. Under the new law you would be required to have a 
license for receiving stations, and that amendment would follow that 
provision. It requires all receiving stations to be licensed, and if 
that is the case this amendment would simply follow that provision. 

Mr. Hamilton. Then I will stand corrected on that. 

Mr. Edmonds. Is there any particular objection to licensing a re- 
ceiving station ? 

Mr. Hamilton. I think it would be a good thing provided there 
was Government money to do that. 

Mr. Edmonds. As long as they made no charge for it ? 

Mr. Hamilton. I mean if they provide an organization here at 
Washington to license receiving stations, because then everybody 
would be on record. 

Mr. Edmonds. Of course, they do not require any examination 
under this amendment? 

Mr. Hamilton. Absolutely none. I believe the Navy Department 
will stand corrected on this 15-word a minute proposition, or the 75. 
I got a telegram from the Western Association agreeing to 10 words 
a minute in that amendment and not 12. That means 50 letters a 
minute, and we will agree to 50 letters a minute. We think that is 
plenty strong enough. We do not want these people to be experts. 
The old law requires 25 letters a minute, but we are willing to make 
it 50. 

It is further provided in this amendment that the amateurs are 
limited to one-quarter kilowatt within 5 miles of any governmental 
receiving station. In the city of Indianapolis we have a receiving 
station on the post office building. That means all through Indian- 
apolis we will be cut to one-quartec kilowatt, one-fourth of what we 
have had before. 

That station has been operated all during the war and was in 
operation before the war, and, as I understand it, Mr. Burleson, the 
Postmaster General, intends to put a lot more receiving stations on 
post office buildings. We can not agree to accept an amendment 
which would cut us to one-quarter of a kilowatt within 5 miles of a 
Government receiving station unless the station is defined to come 
within the 100-mile limit. 

Mr. Hardy. How far would one-quarter of a kilowatt enable you 
to communicate? 

Mr. Hamilton. Not very far under average conditions, but under 
ideal conditions one-quarter of a kilowatt will transmit 150 miles. 

Mr. Hardy. Ordinarily would it transmit half that distance ? 

Mr. Hamilton. No; it will not. I think it was brought out this 
morning that on 200 meters 1 kilowatt of power would not be practi- 
cal between here and Baltimore. 

Mr. Hardy. How large a kilowatt power would possibly result in 
interference with the smaller receiving stations licensed by the 
Government? 



GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OP BADIO COMMUNICATION. 281 

Mr. Hamilton. There is no reason why they should receive on the 
amateur wave lengths at all. If they will stay away from the ama- 
teur wave length 1 kilowatt w ill not interfere. 

Mr. Hardy. What wave length will the Indianapolis post office 
station operate on ? 

Mr. Hamilton. That I can not say. They would not let. me in 
the station, not being a Navy man. 

Mr. Edmonds. This 150 to 200 is reserved for the amateurs? 

Mr. Hamilton. It is. 

Mr. Edmonds. If you use 1 kilowatt you will not interfere with 
anybody, even if you used it wdthin 100 miles of the Atlantic and 
Pacific Oceans? 

Mr. Hamilton. We would not interfere if we used it within 100 
miles of either the Atlantic or the Pacific. 

Mr. Edmonds. Because that is the reserved length ? 

Mr. Hamilton. Because that is the reserved length. I do not 
see why they should not give us a place and let us stay there. 

Mr. Humphreys. Is interference affected by the kilowatt power? 

Mr. Hamilton. Not necessarily; no, sir. It is a function of the 
wave length. 

Mr. Humphreys. You said not necessarily? 

Mr. Hamilton. Under the 1912 law if you have a pure wave you 
are required to have a pure wave, and if you obey the law strictly 
and fully it will not interfere. 

Mr. Hu3iphreys. Whether you use a quarter, a half, or 1 would 
make no difference as far as the interference was concerned? 

Mr. Hamilton. No. 

Mr. Lehlbach. This amendment, as drawn, would prevent any 
wireless station in Washington from using a quarter of a kilowatt, 
because it would be. within 5 miles of Arlington ? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes. 

Mr. Humphreys. How much are you limited to now? 

Mr. Hamilton, One kilowatt of power all over the United States. 

Mr. Humphreys. And the limitation applies only to stations within 
5 miles of a Government receiving station? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes. And we were limited then to half a kilor 
watt, and this proposes to limit us to a quarter. 

Mr. Hu3iphreys. Can you tell me why that limitation is put on, 
if it does not interfere ? 

Mr. Hamilton. I do not believe the Navy Department meant that 
to be that way. 

Mr. Humphreys. The present law puts a different limit where 
the station is operated within 5 miles of a Government station. 

Mr. Hamilton. They put it at half of a kilowatt. 

Mr. Humphreys. If it would make no difference, whv did thev 
put it in the present law? 

Mr. Hamilton. That law was made several years ago, and at that 
time the amateur's apparatus was very crude and not at all pure. 
Tlie waves were not pure, but to-day we have a different condition. 
The amateurs have some of the finest stations there are, and there 
is no reason for that' under present conditions. As we develop the 
art further there will not be any reason why we should interfere with 
any Government business, if we do not use over 1 kilowatt of power. 



282 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Humphreys. How far can an amateur communicate with a 
quarter of a kilowatt? All over the city of Indianapolis? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes ; all over the city of Indianapolis. 

Mr. Humphreys. How far do you want to go? 

Mr. Hamilton. We do not want to put ourselves — we do not have 
much intercity communication. When we communicate a message 
like that Mr. Maxim spoke about going from New York to San 
Francisco in two hours, that is the kind of communication the amateur 
is interested in as pioneer communication. That is the highest stand- 
ard, and when an amateur can do that he considers himself a pretty 
good amateur. They do not know how to handle the traffic. When 
'they are talking back and forth in a tow^n they are just beginning 
to learn, and after they have learned they can communicate between 
cities. Our closest station to Indianapolis that amounted to anything 
was 150 miles away. 

Mr. Humphreys. If the Post Office Department does extend their 
service and puts a receiving station on the post-office buildings in all 
the cities of any size, that will practically limit the amateurs to a 
quarter of a kilowatt? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes; in places; and I gave that example because 
there is a station there now. I say that is a possibility, and when it 
is law and they say we can do this, when they have the authority to 
say that, they are liable to go ahead and do it. That is one reason 
I made that objection. 

Mr. Hardy. About what would that station at Indianapolis cost 
the Government ? 

Mr. Hamilton. If it is only a receiving station, it should not cost 
them over $150 or $200. 

Mr. Edmonds. If the Navy handles this the same as they do patents, 
they would not have one quarter of a kilowatt. 

Mr. Hamilton. I would like to ask for some information on sec- 
tion 3, and ask why it is not possible to cut out section 3, if the Navy 
takes over the stations — ^the experimental, technical, and training- 
school station ? If they take over everything, why is it necessary to 
put in the bill, in section 3, on page 2, that " no person shall main- 
tain or operate, on land or on a permanently moored vessel (first) 
within any State any radio station capable of being used (a) for 
the transmission of signals, the effect of which extends beyond the 
jurisdiction of such State or causes interference with the transmis- 
sion or receipt of signals to or from any place beyond the jurisdiction 
of such State"? The only station there will be the Government 
stations and these stations provided for in the amendment. Why is 
that necessary ? I could not see why it is necessary. 

Mr. Hardy. Is it not plain that if the Government is going to take 
all your stations along with what now exists and prevent others 
from being put up, that they must do that; otherwise they Avould 
have to buy them as fast as they were put. That is the plain purpose 
of that. 

Mr. Hamilton. What is to prevent anybody doing that? It says 
for the receiving of signals to or from any place, signals which 
originate outside of the State. What would keep me from putting 
a wire in my back room and receiving messages? It is not my 
fault if the messages come in on the roof, and I do not see how the 
(jovernment can keep me from receiving these messages. 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 283 

Mr. Hardy. The proposition is to let the Govemiuent own the 
wireless stations. If a private individual should come along and 
put up more, the Government would not own them. 

Mr. Hamilton. I did not know that was the section that applied 
to that. 

Mr. Edmonds. It says — 

This se<'ti(>n shaU not apply to experiment stations and teclmical trainini; 
.sch(M>l stations duly licensed, as provided by the act to rejjfulate radio coni- 
inunication approved August thirteenth, nineteen hundred and twelve. 

Mr. Hamilton. There will be only two kinds of stations. 

Mr. Edmonds. We could add amateur stations to that. 

Mr. Hamilton. I have here, Mr. Chairman, a communication from 
the Baltimore Radio Club, offered by Mr. Donald L. Primrose, who 
had to leave. Everything I have said they would agree to with 
only one exception, that they will accept the 12 word per minute in 
the amendment. They are at sea regarding the Government receiv- 
ing stations — that is, limiting the amateurs to one-quarter of a kilo- 
watt within 5 miles of a Grovernment receiving station, and they 
wanted it to be on record that they are against that part of the 
amendment, as the representative of the Baltimore Radio Club could 
not appear this afternoon. 

Mr. Humphreys. What would you think of the proposition to 
cix^ate a commission with power to determine the wave length and 
the kilowatts that could be used by amateurs ? 

Mr. Hamilton. As far as I am concerned, I do not see how it 
would be possible to have the amateurs represented on that conunis- 
sion. The present law is satisfactoiT and sufficient. It might be 
that we could have a convention and elect somebody to represent the 
amateurs, and that conmiission would be satisfactory to us, because 
we woulci have a re])resentative on it. 

Mr. (trekne. This commission was to be appointed by the Prv si- 
dent. 

Mr. Hamilton. If that is the case, amateurs would not have anv 
representative on it whatever, I mean any elective representative. 

Mr. Hardy. If you have your stations from which you can send 
ordinarily 75 miles with one-quaiter of a kilowatt power, is not that 
sufficient for all the projected purposes of the amat(»ur, to learn to 
send messages? Can he not learn everything in opei'ating that kind 
of a station that he could in operating one that had one kilowatt 
power '( 

Mr. Hamilton. I would say absolutely not, in the section I come 
from, because it is 150 mile.s from our town to the nearest station 
that we can talk to, that .inionnts to anything. There are no sta- 
tions intervening that we could get through with on one-(|uarter 
of a kilowatt, and there are times when we can not get there with 
one kilowatt. All the amateur stations close in the summer time, 
bicause they have not enough power to get anywhere. We only 
operate in the wintertime. They start in November and run until 
April. 

Mr. Hardy. So t)ie 1 kilowatt would limit you to talking or carry- 
ing on comnnmication with simjlar stations inside of Indianapolis? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes; except in the ^^intertime under very ideal 
conditions. 

0C77O— 1 9~ PT n 4 



284 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OP RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Hardy. Then you might talk to a station in Ohio? 

Mr. Hamilton, "then we might talk to a station in Ohio. We 
have gone fui-ther than that in ideal conditions. We have very 
peculiar conditions in the Middle West. There are times when the 
naval station at Chicago can not reach Detroit. Those conditions 
the}^ call freaks. 

Mr. Hakdy. The purpose of the amateur is to learn the art, to 
study the art. and possibly add inventions to the business. 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes; and then there is a certain pleasure to it, 
just the same as a man goes out and plays golf, so the amateurs 
operate their radio stations. 

The Chairman. From that point of view you do not think their 
interests should be paramount to those oi commercial interests 
of the country ? 

Mr. Hamilton. No, sir; I do not. 

Mr. White. Will you not explain briefly just why, from your 
standpoint, it is desirable that we should have the right, for experi- 
mental purposes, to communicate, say, with this nearest station out- 
side of Indianapolis? 

Mr. Hamilton. From my viewpoint, it is this, that the amateun* 
have been considerably in competition with each other, trying to 
see who could send the longest and to see who could get his station 
so efficient that he could get the faithest distance. When they do 
that, they learn to get such efficiency so that in operating their in- 
struments most of their power goes into the ether and is not lost 
in the machine itself. When they do that thev leam a wonderful 
amount of radio engineering, which they would not leam if they 
did not have a chance to communicate at some distance. If they 
do not have enough power to get across the State, there are not 
enough stations closer enough for them to do anything. They would 
not know how far they were getting and would not know how 
efficient their stations were. They would not have any incentive 
to improve. 

We now have a marked incentive to improve our stations. In the 
last two years there have been developments and inventions by the 
use of which our stations will be much more efficient and we will 
probably be able to do much better work and have not so much 
interference among ourselves. Under present conditions, when they 
get of age, we will say, and get into radio engineering they can do 
the same thing with large stations, and they will have the experi- 
ence and the benefit of all this training in fixing up their stations 
to a state of high efficiency, and they can do the same thing them 
with the Government stations. 

Mr. BuRKOuGiis. Do you happen to know whether there are many 
stations that would be situated similarly to Indianapolis? 

Mr. Hamilton. All through the Middle Westr— Denver, St. Louis, 
Kansas City. I believe. We have stations in those cities. In that 
Transcontinental Relay League they jump from Ohio to Chicago, 
down and cross to Kansas City, I believe, to Denver, and then to 
Los Angeles. Those stations are all through the Middle West, but 
not as thick as they are in the East.- 

Mr. Greene. As I understand it, the amateurs are satisfied with 

the present law, which they had before the war. They have been 

efficient in the war, and now they want to go back to their former 



GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 286 

position, and here comes a new law that ties them up so they can not 
get back to where they were. I can not see any reason, after they 
have rendered good service to the Government, why they should not 
have a chance to return to their former status. 

Mr. Hamilton. That is absolutely the condition. None of these 
amateurs would be here to-day if that bill had not been written so 
that it would cut them clear out. We came here to fight that part 
of the bill. The Navy Department has been good enough to help 
the amateurs out and help us get an amendment, but we would much 
rather have it the way it was. 

Mr. Greene. You are perfectly satisfied with the management of 
the business as it has been carried on ? 

Mr. Hamilton. The Department of Commerce has treated us fine, 
and we have always gotten along well with the Department of Com- 
merce. There is no reason why we should have a change that I 
can see. 

Mr. Burroughs. Your attitude toward this amendment is not that 
you advocate it, but you take it as a protective measure in case the 
bill itself is to be enacted ? 

Mr. Hamilton. That is the idea exactly. 

Mr. Greene. But you prefer to leave it as it is ? 

Mr. Hamilton. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Have you any objection to the existing law ? 

Mr. Hamilton. No objection to the existing law; no, sir. 

The Chairman. I supposed you had, from what you said. 

Mr. Hamilton. I thank you, gentlemen, very much. 

STATEMENT OF MR. EDWAED C. ANBREWS, OF FHILABELPHIA, 
FA., FEESIDENT OF THE WIRELESS ASSOCIATION OF PENN- 
SYLVANIA. 

The Chairman. State your name, please. 

Mr. Andrews. Edward C. Andrews. 

The Chairman. Wliere is your home? 

Mr. Andrews. Philadelphia. 

The Chairman. WTiat is your business? 

Mr. Andrews. I represent here the Wireless Association of Penn- 
sylvania as its president to-day. 

The Chairman. What is your business? 

Mr. Andrews. Shipbuilder. 
• The Chau<man. In what yard? 

Mr. Andreavs. The Chester Shipbuilding Co. 

My experience with the art of radio dates back to about 1909. I 
have had classes, private classes, of Boy Scouts and other little 
ofroups and for a while I instructed at Franklin Institute of Phila- 
delphia. 

I am here to-day to represent the Wireless Association of Pennsyl- 
vania, as its president, unalterably opposed to the change in the 
present law. We see absolutely no reason for it and lots of reasons 
against it. The one paramount reason in my mind against the en- 
actment of this law is its sponsors. Understand, gentlemen, that 
what I may say is of a general character, and I do not want anybody 
to take what I say personally. I may, without thought, call a spade 



286 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OP RADIO COMMUNIOATTON. 

• 

a spade, whether it is an ace or a ten spot ; but please pull your feet in 
if 1 happen to step on your toes. I will try not to. [Laughter.] 

This bill eliminates the amateur entirely. It makes no provision 
and provides no scope for his development, and it simply tends 
toward that Government ownership which, I am sure, nobody has 
shown any good reason for having. It removes the incentive for 
.experimenters or for any amateur to experiment. While it provides 
for technical or training-school stations or experiment stations, I 
fear it has taken away the incentive. 

To show more clearly what I mean — this possibly may have been 
expressed before — the incentive is taken away because, as we under- 
stand, there are to be no other stations operated except by the Navy 
Department, and consequently all experimenters or technical and 
training-school scholars would naturally have to come under the 
head of the Navy Department; or, rather, they would have to enlist 
in the Navy in order to carry on the studies they have undertaken, 
and unless they were willing beforehand to enter the service there 
certainly would be no scholars for the schools, and that naturally 
would eliminate them. If we have no incentive and no place for any- 
one to go to sell apparatus, naturally that puts an end to experi- 
mentation. There is nobody to sell to, except the Navy Department 
or the Government, and we have learned from previous speakers that 
they do not buy. Consequently it eliminates experimenting and it 
deters people from taking up the art. Consequently interest in the 
art will gradually die out. 

I want to speak a little on the wave-length question. As we under- 
stand, there was some little discussion a while ago regarding 200 
meters and 600 meters. As you know, all amateurs were restricted to 
200 meters. They did give us by the enactment of the London con- 
vention a wave length of 300 meters and 600 meters for ship work, 
but 800 meters is very rarely used, and it has been eliminated. Why it 
has been eliminated I can not say, and while I do not recall having 
heard of anybody doing any work on that wave length, the amateur 
is still held to a limit of 200 meters. Then comes the 600-meters 
limit, but the space between these, two figures is vacant. 

A gentleman this morning spoke about inland commercial work, 
as to why they could not work on 600 meters and travel a certain 
distance, say from Washington to Baltimore. Well, they could go 
even farther than that. There is no reason why they can not work 
up on 1,600 meters. The Wanamaker station in Philadelphia, that 
operates between Philadelphia and New York, operates on, I be- 
lieve, 1,600 or 1,800 meters, and there is no other ship work or naval 
station work on that wave length, the navy yards working on 
about 1,000 meters, the ships working on 600 meters, and the ama- 
teurs on 200 meters. 

If the ship-to-shore work is carried on on 600 meters, sharply tuned, 
as the law requires it shall be, there ought to be no interference from 
the amateur, and if the commercial station is working on 1,600 or 
1,800 meters there is absolutely no danger of interference on that 
score; and if they arc working on the higher wave length with the 
power they usually use, something around five kilowatts for the 
commercial stations, then they could carry on all this commercial 
work. I can see no reason why there should be any interference. 

That is all I have to say, gentlemen. 



GOVEBNMENT CONTEOL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 287 

STATEHEin OF OOBDON M. CHEISTINE, M. D., 2043 NORTH 
TWELFTH STEEET, PHILADELPHIA, PA. 

Dr. Christine. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I 
have but a very few things to say, because I think Mr. Maxim went 
over the ground very fully, and I think you understand from him 
that the act of August 13, 1912, was eminently satisfactory to the 
amateur. 

My interest in the wireless question came from the fact that my son, 
who now is a commanding officer of the photographic department 
of the Air Service in France, bought for 10 cents a little detector 
with which the advertisement said he could hear the signals from 
Arlington. He rigged that up in my third-story end room and 
asked me to listen, using a house phone. Well, we listened and we 
thought we heard, but we did not. It required then a wire. He 
purchased a wire, but still we. received no signals. He then pur- 
chased another wire and put it between two poles, using the house 
phone. We thought then we heard signals, but we did not. 

We then constructed a better aerial and procured a set of head 
phones, and then we thought we could hear the signals, but we could 
not. He then purchased, for a couple of dollars, a transformer, and 
then we heard the signals of the Arlington station at five minutes 
of 10, giving the time. We then listened for the broad signal indi- 
cating the exact second of 10 o'clock. We had then a wireless re- 
ceiving outfit at an expense of two or three or four dollars. 

My interest in that Tbecame verj^ great, because I was scout master 
of a troop of Boy Scouts, and it was my duty to teach them sema- 
phore, and, inasmuch as in the manual there was a provision for teach- 
ing wireless telegraphy, it was necessary for me to learn wireless 
telegraphy. 

I became extremely interested, and I have now in my house an 
outfit worth $600 or $700, which has been held in abeyance ever since 
the order of the President went forth that we were to lower our 
aerials, and that outfit has not been used. I wrote some time ago to 
the Secretary of the Navy to ask him when we would be able to use 
our outfits, and the Assistant Secretary, Mr. Eoosevelt, replied, 
" When the war was over." 

Recently, hearing many of the boys say that now that the armistice 
was signed, they would probably be permitted to use their wireless, 
I wrote again to the proper department, and received the reply that 
until the proclamation went forth we would be obliged to keep our 
aerials and our outfits quiet. 

Now, I am greatly interested in medicine and surgery ; that is my 
profession; but I am an amateur in wireless telegraphy and have 
become intensely interested in it. I am a member of the board of 
directors of the Wireless Association of Pennsylvania, and when we 
sent nearly every boy we had to the Navy and to the Army to do the 
work of the Nation in that direction we were limited in our mem- 
bership to four, five, or six. I left my work and business every 
night we had a meeting of the board of directors or a meeting of 
the association and went there in an endeavor to keep up the work of 
the association, so that Avhen the war was over we would be able to 
say to those boys that we had kept the association alive. My hair 
is gray and I am 01 years of age, but I am extremely interested in 



288 GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OP RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

this art. I love my profession, my work, but I came here this morn- 
ing and am speaking to you now in behalf of the act of August 13, 
1912, to ask you with all mv heart and soul that you do not disturb 
that so far as the interests of the radio amateur are concerned. 

You have sent the boys, you have allowed them to go, and they are 
there doing their service. Some of them have gone to the depths of 
the ocean in that service. I could read you most pathetic things 
from the wireless journals showing you what wonderful service those 
boys have rendered, and I have it from those in authority that the 
amateur did the very best work. 

Now, why, while this war is going on and most of the amateurs are 
away in the Army and in the Navy, this thing should be done, I can 
not understand. We are willing that the work should go on as it 
was, with our half a kilowatt, a certain distance from a naval station — 
5 miles. 

It so happens that my friend, Mr. Andrews, can onlv use a quarter- 
kilowatt transformer. I am just outside the limit oi 5 miles, and I 
can use 1 kilowatt, but with an aerial of 200 meters I can not put 
all the strength of that 1 -kilowatt transformer into the aerial because 
of a lack of capacity. Therefore, I am obliged, when I go to work 
again — and I hope you will allow me to do so — ^to reduce my 1 kilo- 
watt to three-quarters of a kilowatt. I can not understand why it 
has been reduced in this amendment to a quarter of a kilowatt within 
5 miles of a naval station and half a kilowatt outside that limit. 

I know two boys who, as the result of my teaching, passed the ex- 
amination at the Navy Yard. At the time I gave up the Scout work 
I had other boys, and they are ready to pass the examinations. I 
went down among the boys, around a table like this, and I was exam- 
ined. As the result of my studies I received an average of 100, of 
which I am quite proud. 

I have endeavored to teach the boys that one of the grandest things 
they can do in their study of electricity is to study wireless. It re- 

?uires knowledge in many lines. I have in my cellar a lathe, and 
have worked that lathe an hour at a time when my wife said that 
it was time to come to bed, and with that lathe I have made a wire- 
less apparatus myself, and my friends about me, who are interested 
in this matter, know how difficult it is with a lathe to make a vari- 
ometer. An amateur is some one who is in love with his art ; when 
he goes beyond that and earns his living in sending and receiving 
signals, then he is a professional. I am as pure an amateur as you 
can get, and we have thousands of them throughout the country. 

Now, we can not interfere with the Navy Yard. A wave length 
means something, say, that lon^ [indicating], and a wave that long 
does not go beyond a certain width. If we send out our pulsations, 
thousands and thousands of them, in a column something like that 
width, and if the Navy Yard is adjusted to receive a wave length 
that long [indicating] , how in the world can it hear the wave length 
we send out? Simply because they disobe}' the law, or that I am 
myself abusing my privilege and going above my limit. 

The Wireless Association of Pennsylvania knew of a young man 

in the city of Philadelphia who is a genius. He is such a genius 

that he does not know there is such a thing as law, and he sent out 

his pulsations in all sorts of waves. He does not recognize the law ; 

he is too much of a genius. A member of our association, who is 



QOVSBNMSNT CONTBOL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 289 

pres^it here to-day, incurred his everlasting enmity because he re- 
jioried him to the Wireless Association and the Wireless Association 
said " You must stop it," We are ready to report to the Government 
and to the proper omcials any boy, any man, or any amateur who dis- 
obeys the law. 

Now, we do not like this amendment; we do not want any amend- 
ment at all 

Mr. Humphreys (interposing) . Will you permit me to ask a ques- 
tion? 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. HuMPHRErs. If you can explain it to me, how could you tell 
it was this particular genius who was violating the law ? 

Dr. Christine. There always is a call letter. My call letter is 
3--Li-0. Every wireless expert or amateur in the citv of Philadelphia 
knows when ihis particular genius sends out his calls or his simals — 
just as you would recognize me by seeing my handwriting or looking 
at my face. Wlien ^r. James uses his apparatus, I know it is Mr. 
James. When Mr. Serviss uses his, I know it is his. In addition to 
his call letter, there is a certain tone, either sharp, rough, or other- 
wise. Then, the distance, and the experience we have in hearing 
these signals, determine these points. And it was proven in that and 
other ways that this young man was infringing the law. There- 
fore, the wireless association regarded it as its duty to see that the 
law was obeyed, and reported him. 

Mr. Humphreys. You can recognize a man's sending — an indi- 
vidual's ? 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir; we can recognize his sending and his 
work. I can tell vou absolutelv whether I am listening to the navv 
j'ard or to Arlington, and I want to say I was always pleased to 
hear Arlington, but the navy yard opera toi-s were pretty miserable. 

Mr. Humphreys. Well, they were all amateurs, as I understand it ? 

Dr. Christine. I doubt it. 

Mr. Humphreys. Their testimony has all been to that effect, prac- 
ticallv. 

Dr. Christine. Now, give us this old law. Do not disturb that. 
We have been very content, Mr. Chairman and members of the com- 
mittee, with the treatment we have received from the Department 
of Commerce and Labor. We are developing a number of boys in 
the art of wireless telegraphy, and it is from that host of boys that 
the commercial stations and the Army and the Navy must receive 
their material. It is a world-wide university, and the boys have 
availed themselves of it, and that is why the amateurs are here to- 
dav asking that we do not disturb the law of 1912. 

Mr. Beshlin. Wliere, in your opinion, would there be any differ- 
ence in the control of this by the Department of Commerce and by 
the Navy Department? 

Dr. Christine. I think the general opinion is 

Mr. Behiilin. I want your opinion, not the general opinion. 

Dr. Christine. My own opinion is that the treatment which the 
Department of Commerce and Labor has given us has been that of 
man to man and the treatment which the Navy would give us would 
be the treatment of a high official to a civilian. 

Mr. Beshlin. That is just an impression? 

Dr. CriRisTiNE. That is my impression; yes, sir. 



290 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Beshlin. Not bom of any experience? 
'Dr. Christine. Then, it is ibhe province of the Department of 
(^ommerce and Labor to engage in business. Is the Navy going to 
enter the business of communicating messages here, there, and else- 
Avhere? If so, why do they not take up the telegraph and telephone, 
and the post-office work? Why should they take up this particu- 
lar work. They are, of course, in a warlike attitude; they are 
in military life; but why should they take over the commercial 
work? In other words, if the Navy takes this over, what is to 
interfere with their controlling the use of the wireless in the mines 
between the bottom of a mine and the top of a mine? What is to 
interfere with their controlling the use of the wireless in the railroad, 
as between train and train or between train and stations? Will the 
Navy Department take that up also ? 

Now, when the navy yard hears the amateur who is operating 
within the law he is simplj^ disobeying the law himself 

Mr. Beshlin (interposmg) . Does it not necessarily follow that 
the Navy must have a certain control of this in order to regulate the 
ships at sea? 

Dr. Christine. No; their regulation of ships at sea has not any- 
thing to do with the matter whatever. You can make the law more 
stringent, if you will, regarding the amateur, so far as I am con- 
cerned. I knew a boy not far from me who, after the war was de- 
clared, thought he was doing all right to receive, and I said to him, 
" If you do that I shall report you." And if this law is allowed to 
remain as it is I can assert positively that no matter how stringent 
you make the law the Wireless Association of Pennsylvania will see 
to it that it is obeyed. And I believe there are very few of our ama- 
teurs who have disobeyed the law. You know as well as I do that 
there are some who will disobey any law. 

Mr. Hardy. Have you any objection to the receiving stations being 
required to take out a license ? 

Dr. Christine. I would favor having the receiving stations licensed. 

Mr. Hardy. Do you know that the law of 1912 does not require any 
license? 

Dr. Christine. I know it does not, and I think that was one of its 
weak points. There ought to be a law to amend that. 

Mr. Hardy. Over and above that, except as to the provision limit- 
ing them within 5 miles of a station to a quarter of a kilowatt power, 
do you see anything in this amended provision that substantially in- 
terferes with the existence and progress of amateur radio telegraphy? 

Dr. Christine. No ; if you limit it to a half kilowatt and a quarter 
kilowatt, the amateur will go on. It will probably be, in a sense, 
more of an incentive. 

Mr. Hardy. You heard the first gentleman who spoke in behalf of 
the amateurs? 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hardy. It seemed as if most of the amateurs had really agreed 
on these terms. Have you really any serious objection to that amend- 
ment ? 

Dr. Christine. I have no serious objection to that amendment, 
except that, inasmuch as they are limited to one kilowatt far away 
and one-half a kilowatt within 5 miles of a naval station, I can not 



GOVBBNMBNT CONTROL OF BADIO OOMMTJNIOATION. f 291 

see that that will. in any way interfere with the ships or naval sta- 
tions. I can not understand why the amendment pijUs it down. 

Mr. Hardy. That is really the only objection you have? 

Dr. Christine. That is the only objection I have; yes, sir. 

Mr. Hardy. Otherwise the amendment is all right, you think ? 

Dr. Christine. Except that in the latter part there I would like 
to change the term " Grovemment receiving station." I would favor 
having that changed to read " Government military or naval station." 
It may make no difference, but " Government receiving station " is 
rather indefinite. We all understood that under the old act as being 
a navy yard or a station of larger sort. 

Mr. Humphreys. Have you a copy of the law there ? What is that 
language? 

Dr. Christine. Regulation 15 provides [reading] : 

No prtvate or commercial stat'on not engaged in the transaction of bona fide 
commercial business by radio communication or in experimentation In connec- 
tion with the development and manufacture of radio apparatus for commercial 
purposes shall use a transmitf ng wave length exceeding 200 meters, or a trans- 
former input exceeding one kilowatt, except by special authority of the Secre- 
tary of Commerce contained in the license of the station: Provided, That the 
owner or operator of a station of the character mentioned in this regulation 
shall not be liable for a violation of the requirements of the third or fourtli. 
regulations to the penalties of $100 or .$25, respectively, provided in this sec- 
tion unless the person maintaining or operating such station shall have been 
notified in writing that the said transmitter has been found, upon tests con- 
ducted by the Government, to be so adjusted as to violate the said third and 
fourth regulations and opportunity has been given to said owner or operator to 
adjust said transmitter in conformity with said regulations. 

Lieut. Cadmus, when satisfied that the amateur was disobeying the 
law, would come to his station, or have some one go there, and have 
that station tuned. And when it was once tuned it was the duty, of 
course, of the amateur to keep it so tuned, and it was likewise the 
duty of other amateurs to notify the Government if that law was in 
any way violated. 

Mr. Humphreys. How is the inspector, whoever he is, to find out 
that the amateur is violating the law if he is forbidden to tune his 
instrument so as to answer that particular wave? 

Dr. Christine. If he is forbidden ? 

Mr. Humphreys. I understood you to say they violated the law by 
listening to what the amateur would say, because they have no right 
to ^et down into that 200-meter limit. 

Dr. Christine. No; the Navy violates the rule by detuning his own 
apparatus so he will receive on 200-meter wave lengths. 

Mr. Humphreys. But T understood you to say the Navy Depart- 
ment 

Dr. Christine. The Navy Department can only hear the amateur 
at 200 meters by lowering his own tone; in other words, by disturb- 
ing his tuning. 

Mr. Humphreys. Well, some Government official would have to 
have that right or else they would never catch it, unless they would 
leave it to the amateure to catch each other. 

Dr. Christine. The point is, sir, that the amateur, if he is obeving 
the law, is not disturbing that naval station, and if he is disturbing 
that naval station the naval station is disobeying the law itself in 
coming down below its 300 or 600 meters. 



292 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OV RADIO GOMMUNICATIOK. 

Mr. HuMPHBEYS. But should not somebody in the Government be 
permitted to listen and hear what he is doing? 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir; I agree with you. I say to you that we 
wish this law — I say " we," but the amateurs, so far as I know, have 
had no gathering together. They have come here to-day to listen^ 
each man to speak for himself and for the men whom we particu- 
larly represent. But I think we nearly all agree that this is the best 
proposition, and we are perfectly willing that you should put a 
very stringent provision in the law as regards the amateur and see 
to it that he obeys those injunctions. 

Mr. Humphreys. You object to the Navy having to ascertain that 
the amateurs were doing things that they ought not to have done 
and ascertain that by tuning their instruments down to 200 meters. 
That was during the war 

Dr. Christine. Oh, no ; we have now no complaints. No amateur 
has been using his apparatus during the war. 

Mr. Humphreys. When waj^ it that the Navy did this? 

Dr. Christine. Prior to the war, when we had the right to use 
200 and the navy yard was supposed to use 600 and 300 ; they could 
not hear our 200 unless they lowered their own tuning. Many a 
time there have been amateurs in the city of Philadelphia who have 
notified the navy yard that ships were sending to them when they 
could not hear them; many a time that has happened, and I think 
there is a witness here to-day who can prove it. 

Mr. Humphreys. Give us the language, please, that you were 
about to point out. You said you did not approve of the term 
" Government receiving stations." 

Dr. Christine, An officer might have simply a receiving station^ 
and then he would come under that classincation. I do not like 
this expression " Government receiving station." 

Mr. Humphreys. You would rather have it " naval or military " ? 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir; that would be my suggestion. In other 
words, a bona fide station and not of some officer who may have a 
receiving station or in any way a governmental station only for 
receiving purposes. In New York City there is a police wireless. I 
have not heard that the police find that the amateurs interfere with 
them in any way. And I suppose that in the city of Philadelphia 
and everywhere wireless will become a very common means for com- 
munication. 

Mr. Humphreys. You think it is proper, then, to limit the ama- 
teurs within 5 miles of a military or naval station to one-half 
kilowatt? 

Dr. Christine. Yes. 

Mr. Humphreys. Then there is evidently some good reason for 
that; I imagine interference. If that be true, why should not that 
apply if the Government has a receiving station other than military 
or naval ? . 

Dr. Christine. I believe that is simply an arbitrary statement. I 
can not see that there would be much difference between a kilowatt, if 
properly operated, and half a kilowatt. - 

Mr. Hu3iPHREYS. Yes; I understood you to agree that you thought 
that was a reasonable regulation. 

Dr. Christine. It is a reasonable regulation. 



QOYBBNMEKT GOKTBOI. OW BA]»0 COKMITNICATION. 293 

Mr. HuMPHBEYs. But if it is reas<mable for military or naTal sta- 
tions, why is it not reasonable for any other Government receiving 
stations? 

Dr. Chsistene. Then that would exclude the amateur all together. 

Mr. Humphreys. Did it exclude them altogether when you had it 
" naval and military ? " 

Dr. Christine. No, sir. 

Mr. HuMPHRBTs. They operated with one-half a kilowatt, although 
they were within 5 miles of a military or naval station? 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. Why, then, would it exclude them altogether if 
you say "any Government receiving station?'" Why can you not 
still operate? Suppose the receiving station is a po^-office staticm. 
You can operate within 5 miles of a naval station or a military station : 
why is it you can not operate within 5 miles of a Government station ? 

Dr. Christine. The Government stations, as we understand them, 
would be large stations like the naval stations. The smaller stations 
wpuld be scattered here, there, and elsewhere, and doubtless will be, 
and that would limit the amateur so much that he would have to keep 
down to his quarter kilowatt altogether. . 

Mr. Humphreys. You may have some good reason for it, but I do 
not understand it myself. What is the reason you can operate all 
right within 5 miles of a military or naval station on your one-half 
kilowatt but you could not do it if it were some other sort of Govern- 
ment receiving station ? Just what is the reason ? 

Dr. Christine. I do not catch your point. 

Mr. HuMPHRErs. Here is your objection. This amendment pro- 
vides the limit " within 5 miles of a Government receiving station." 
You want that changed to read "^ military or naval receiving station ? '' 

Mr. Lehlbach. Not "receiving"; "military or naval station." 

Dr. Christine. It should be a bona fide station. 

Mr. Humphreys. You want to strike out the words ''Govornuient 
receiving " and insert in their place '* military or naval? " 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir; that it shall he a bona fide station. 

Mr. Humphreys. Well, now, why? Why do you want that? 

Dr. Christine. Because there would probably be only one bona 
fide military or naval station within a district. I suppose the mili- 
tary and naval departments are divided up into districts, whereas 
there n^ight be a receiving station at every residence of a militiiry or 
naval officer. 

Mr. Humphreys. If it does not interfere with you, what difference 
does it make? 

Dr. Christine. It does not interfere with us in any way. 

The Chairman. As I underst>and, Mr. Humphreys, the number of 
military or naval stations is now limited ; hence that provision bf the 
law limiting the use of one-quarter kilowatt by the amateurs is negli- 
gible. There are so few of those stations. 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir ; we are willing to submit to that. 

The Chairman. But if these stations were increased in number all 
over the country — here, there, and everywhere; if, as somebody has 
suggested, a naval officer had a receiving station in his residence that 
should be considered a Government station, it might limit the ama- 
teurs to the use of a quarter kilowatt if the thing should be multi- 
plied to that extent. 



294 GOVERNMENT OONTBOL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Humphreys. But I gathered from what he said that it did not 
interfere with the amateurs operating within this 5-mile limit. 

Mr. EowE. That is, on one-half kilowatt. 

Dr. Christine. It does not interfere with us at all, sir. The ques- 
tion is, will our use of one-half kilowatt interfere with the Govern- 
ment under any circumstances? But there is the law, and we are 
willing to have it just as it is here. 

Mr. Edmonds. In other words, it is your opinion that this restric- 
tion of stations under the 1912 law could be stricken out altogether? 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. You object to the words " Government receiving 
stations " and you want those stricken out and to insert in place of 
them, " naval or military station " ? ^ 

Dr. Christine. Yes,, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. Can your one-half kilowatt or one-quarter kilo- 
watt interfere with the sending of a message as well as receiving it? 

Dr. Christine. No, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. Then what difference does it make if it be a GrOT- 
ernmtot receiving station ? 

Dr. Christine. Under the present law, sir, I hitve a 1-kilowatt 
transformer in my wireless room which, if the President says I can, 
I shall try to operate, but the chances are I shall have to have it 
rearranged and turned into a three-quarter kilowatt transformer. I 
may disagree with my brothers here, but I doubt whether I can get 
the power from a 1-kilowatt transformer into a 200-meter wave 
length aerial. It has not the capacity. Therefore, I will reduce it to 
three-quarters. 

I am now outside of the 5 nautical miles limit from the navy yard, 
but there is a receiving station at Chestnut Street. I am within 5 
miles of that. I believe that under this law 1 would be regarded as 
having the liberty to use 1 kilowatt, because I am 5 miles away from 
a naval station. I call the naval yard a " naval station," but I do not 
call that receiving station at Chestnut and Twelfth Street a naval or 
military station. That is to say, I believe the intent in framing that 
law was that that should be a power station for transmitting and 
receiving. 

Mr. Humphreys. Personally, 1 am very anxious to protect the 
rights of the amateurs, and I thought maybe there was some good 
reason that you had for wanting to substitute " military and naval " 
for the words " Government receiving." I wanted to get that clear 
in my mind. 

Dr. Christine. At Twelfth and Chestnut Street there is a receiving 
station. The navy yard is 5 miles away from me. Now, if this pro- 
\'ision is applied to that receiving station, I can not use my 1 kilowatt 
or three-quarters kilowatt, but will have to get a quarter kilowatt 
transformer. The Chestnut Street station is only 3 miles from me. 

Mr. Humphreys. Suppose we make it a half instead of a quarter, 
just as it is now. What difference does it make to you whether it is a 
Government receiving station or a naval or military station? 

Mr. Lehlbach. Mr. Humphreys, don't you see it impairs the effi- 
ciency of his plant by reducing it from a 1 kilowatt to a one-half 
kilowatt power? 



GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OP BADIO OOMMITNICATION. 295 

Dr. Christine. I was getting my apparatus so tuned that I believe 
in a short while I would have been able to do as good work as any 
other amateur in the city of Philadelphia. 

Mr. Humphreys. It will not impair the usefulness of your plant at 
all, unless that interferes with some Government receiving station. 
If it does interfere with Government work 

Mr. LiEHiaACH (interposing). The law says that if he is within 5 
miles of a Government receiving station, whether he interferes or 
not, he is restricted. 

Mr. Humphreys. Well, there must be some reason. 

Mr. Lehlbach. His argument is that there is no reason for the 
restriction. 

Dr. Christine. I do not want the Navy to put a station within a 
square from me, and then say I can not use my present apparatus. 

Mr. Humphreys. I should not want to accuse the Navy of doing 
that 

Dr. Christine. I am not accusing the Navy. 

Mr. Humphreys. But the Navy ought to have authority to put 
plants wherever they want to. 

Mr. Hardy. I understand you to say that if it was a naval station 
you would not mind that provision prohibiting you from being the 
possessor of such a plant within 5 miles of it. Now, if there is no 
trouble about your obeying that law within 5 miles of a naval station, 
what trouble in the world is there about your doing it within 5 miles 
of a receiving station ? 

Dr. Christine. None whatever. I think it is foolish to have the 
diflFerence between a half kilowatt and a kilowatt. 

Mr. Hardy. The whole of Washington practically is within 5 
miles of a naval station, and all Washington is subject to this limita- 
tion of a quarter kilowatt. When you get outside of it you have 
privileges that these people do not have here. All New York is in 
the same position. Now, you think it is no burden on New York 
and Washington to be subject to those limitations because they are 
near a naval station or Army station. If it is no burden on Wash- 
ington and New York City to have these limitations, why would it 
be any more of a burden on you if you are out in the country ? 

Dr. Christine. Understand me; I thought I had made it clear. 
My own view is that it makes no difference to the navy yard whether 
we use a half a kilowatt or a kilowatt; it does not disturb them. 

Mr. Hardy. But Mr. Humphreys is trying to ask for your reason 
why you object to the words " receiving station " and want it " naval 
station.'' 

Dr. Christine. Because under the present law I can use a 1- 
kilowatt transformer, because I am outside of the 5-mile limit. But if 
I am within that limit I have to use the one-quarter kilowatt, which 
I consider absurd. It makes no difference to the navy yard in its 
transmission or receiving whether we use the 1 kilowatt or one-quarter 
kilowatt. If I were to amend this, I would make it three-quarters 
of a kilowatt square. 

Mr. Hardy. Then you were satisfied with the old law simply be- 
cause it did not interfere with you? 

Dr. Christine. No ; because it did not interfere with the Navy or 
anything else. 



296 GOVEENMENT CONTROL OP BADIO GOMMUNIOATION. 

Mr. Hardy. You do not ^et my point. It did interfere with every- 
body within 5 miles of a naval station, but it did not interfere with 
vou. 

Dr. Christine. No; if I were within 5 miles, I should follow the 
provisions of the law. 

Mr. Hardy. But you are not? 

Dr. Christine. If I were, I would use the provisions; I should 
avail myself of the provisions here for one-quarter kilowatt. 

Ml . Humphreys. Could you get along with that? 

Dr. Christine. I would have to. 

Mr. Humphreys. But could you? 

Dr. Christine. Yes. 

Mr. Humphreys. Then, if you could do it, why are you so fright- 
ened by the possibility of a Government receiving station, other than 
militarv or naval, being put within 5 miles of you ? 

Dr. Christine. I would make that a round figure. Instead of say- 
ing "one-half" or "one-quarter" I would say that the amateur 
should be permitted to use a quarter or a half, no matter where he is. 

Mr. Humphreys. You are speaking now of yourself as an indi- 
vidual? 

Dr. Christine. No,. sir; I am speaking for the amateurs. 

Mr. Humphreys. You are speaking for the amateur who lives 
right there where you do? 

Dr. Christine. I am only using my own case as an ilhistration. I 
see no reason why that was originally put at a quarter kilowatt and a 
kilowatt. I can not see any reason for it, and I can not see any 
reason why in this amendment it should be limited to a quarter, or a 
half. 

Mr. Humphreys. Most of the amateurs who have talked to me seem 
to be more afraid of the naval and military authorities having some- 
thing to do with this than they were of the civil branches of the 
Government. You seem to differ with them. You are not objecting 
to a military or naval station, but if it is going to be a civil station, 
a station of the Post Office Department, for example, you become 
alarmed. 

Dr. Christine. May I put on record my belief? Of course others 
have told me, " Say nothing as to belief," but I have been on the 
witness stand as an expert many times, and I know just how I am 
permitted to testify, but I believe that the Navy has it in for the 
amateur and wants him out. He would not have presented that 
original bill if he did not. But they became somewhat alarmed at 
the tremendous uprising of the amateurs througlioiit this country at 
the prospect of being deprived of the use of their outfits. The other 
night we could hardly get into our room, the vomig men, amateurs 
and others who came, and I am quite sure when the amateurs of the 
country hear of this there will be a tremendous protest. 
. Mr. Hardy. Your belief that the Navy has got something against 
the amateur is simply from the language of the original bill? 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hardy. Did you ever see any bill as originally framed that 
did not require corrections to be made in it? 

Dr. Christine. I know, but this is not a correction, it is an altera- 
tion. 



QOVERNTMEirT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 297 

Mr. Hardy. Did you talk with any of the naval authorities^, to see 
whether thev were friendly toward vou or had enmitv toward 
you? 

Dr. Christine. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Hardt. Or whether they were personally willing to correct any 
error ? 

Dr. Christine. I should not know what authority to go to. 

Mr. Hardy. Have not the amateurs heie conferred freely with 
the naval representatives presenting this bill? 

Dr. Christine. I came here this morning, sir, aiul do not know. 

Mr. Hardy. You have talked with your brother amateurs. Have 
you seen any disposition to be unjust to the amateurs by any naval 
representative before this committee? 

Dr. Christine. No, sir. 

Mr. Hardy. So far as you have heard, has there been any un- 
friendly action or expression on their part? 

Dr. Christine. No ; I simply saw the original bill. 

Mr. Hardy. You are only judging from the original bill? 

Dr. Christine. From the original bill. Now, I say, they have 
amended that original bill by presenting an amendment which in 
many respects is satisfactory. 

Mr. Hardy. I have not heard the naval authorities say, but I do 
not think the language of the bill as presented included amateurs. 
I do know that when representatives of the amateurs and the depart- 
ment got together there seemed to be a great deal of harmony and 
friendly disposition between them, from every expression that I have 
heard here. 

Dr. Christine. I am very glad to learn of that, v<5ir. 

Mr. Hardy. Now, another thing. You spoke. Doctor, of want- 
ing to have this put in the Department of Commerce and Labor. 
It so happens that there are two departments ; Commerce is one and 
Labor is the otlier. Which one do you want it in — the Depart- 
ment of Commerce or the Department of Labor? 

Dr. Christine. The Department of Commerce. 

Mr. Greene. When the department was created it was made the 
Department of Conmierce and Labor, and the two branches were 
separated afterwards. That is how he may have been confused, 
because that was the ori^nal name of the department. 

Mr. Hardy. I was askmg the doctor if he cared which one it was, 
whether it was the Department of Labor or the Department of Com 
merce. 

The Chairman. I suppose he refers now to the department that 
has jurisdiction of radio matters, which after the division of the De- 
partment of {^omnierce and Labor continued to be the Department of 
Commerce. 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Edmonds. Doctor, this act of 1912 has been enforced by the 
Department of Commerce and it has been very satisfactory to the 
amateur operators? 

Dr. Christine. Eminently so. 

Mr. Edmonds. And the}' have been treating you very nicely ? 

Dr. Christine. Very well indeed. 

Mr. Edmonds. Now. the power of licensing amatein- stations is in 
the hands entirely of the head of that department? 



298 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Edmonds. He can give a license or not, just as he chooses? 

Dr. Christine. You mean under the former method ? 

Mr. Edmonds. Yes. 

Dr. Christine. The process was simply this: I made application 
to Lieut. Cadmuss, or the Department of Conmierce, and was fur- 
nished with blanks. Then I went to the Navy Yard and was ex- 
amined. That examination was averaged, and then I was notified 
that if I took the oath I could get my license. 

Mr. Edmonds. Still, they had the privilege of refusing you a 
license if they wanted to? They were not forced under the act to 
give you a license? 

Dr. Christine. Oh, yes; I believe they could reject my applica- 
tion. I am not positive of that. 

Mr. Edmonds. Under the law, that is right. 

Dr. Christine. Yes; I believe they could. They may not have 
liked my personality or may not have liked something else. 

Mr. Edmonds. Under this new bill is it possible the Navy Depart- 
ment would have that same privilege? 

Dr. Christine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Edmonds. And they could give out 10 licenses or thousands of 
them, just as they chose? 

Dr. Christine. Yes; and I see no provision there for an exam- 
ination. 

Mr. Edmonds. And they need not give a license to an amateur. 
When you turn this over to the Navy Department that same condi- 
tion exists, and if the Navy Department does not want amateurs in a 
certain district they can simply refuse them licenses. Now, the 
Department of Commerce is a business department, and it is used to 
handling business, and in its report it speaks very highly of the ama- 
teur operators. Undoubtedly they have got along very well together, 
and I do not blame the amateur operators for coming here-and object- 
ing to a change in the departments. If I were they, I would do the 
same thing myself, because they know what they can get from the 
Department of Commerce, and do not know what they can get from 
the Navy Department. 

Mr. Humphreys. It occurs to me that the law should be such that 
no department could arbitrarily refuse to give a man a license if he 
comes within the requirements of the statute. He ought to have a 
right to go into court and force them to give a license unless they 
show a good reason why they should not. 

STATEMENT OF MR. JOSEPH HEINRICH, 514 B STREET SE., 

WASHINGTON, D. C. 

Mr. Heinricti. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I 
am only a youngster, as you express it 

The Chairman (interposing). How old are you, son? 

Mr. Hei>^rich. Thirteen. (Continuing) but I would like to voice 
the thoughts of an amateur at the proposition of so unjust a law. 
The man who proposed such a law could not, I am sure, have known 
the feelings of an amateur. As for myself, I am only a boy who got 
the " wireless bug " long before the war came to a happy termina- 
tion, planning, as I was, to have a set of my own and counting the 
days until I could put up my aerial and go ahead. And then to have 



GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 299 

such a bolt come out of the clear blue! No words can express my 
feelings, and I am sure all the amateurs feel the same way. 

May I ask why do they want to wipe out the amateurs in the United 
States of America 

The Chairman. My son, nobody had any such notion as that. If 
they put that into your head, they put a " Dug " in there that has no 
place there. Yoii go home and sleep soundly to-night and take it for 
granted that there is nobody in this committee that is unfriendly to 
the amateur. 

Mr. EoAVE. I would like to hear what the boy has to say. 

Mr. Heinrich. They are not a bunch of boys who break the laws. 
They can easily be tuned out when forbidden to use a long wave. 

Now, let me ask who furnished the boys for Uncle Sam and the 
nieixhant marine? When the call was sent out for more operators, 
who answered? The amateuis; the ones who operated their little 
stations in a dim cellar or attic. They are the ones who came forth 
and offered themselves to Uncle Sam. They helped materially to 
bring this war to a quick and successful termination ; and, now that 
it is over, won't you let them operate their little stations? 

And where can Uncle Sam turn for operators in case of another 
war? To the amateurs; and if there were none, God only knows. 
Every American ship, every transport loaded with soldiers, and 
every battleship of any sort must have at the very least two operators. 

And where do the present operators get their knowledge? The 
majority of them were formerly amateui*s. I know a number of 
them personally, and they are the men that believe that amateurism 
should not and will not be stamped out as long as there is an amateur 
left Ip fight. We want our rights. This is a free country ; and, fur- 
thermore, gentlemen, to show the absolute baselessness of the law, 
there can be any number of receiving, stations operated at the same 
time without any possible interference. 

Then, why does that man want to cut us out? AVhat are his rea- 
sons for proposing a law to wipe out the amateurs in the United 
States of America? You have given us a standing which we do. not 
enjoy in any other country, and now will you take it away from us? 
The Government had no trouble with us when the war began. They 
simply sent around the notice that all amateur stations should be 
closed for the period of the war and it was abided by. 

Again, may I ask, what was his reason for proposing such a law { 
»vhich I hope will be as completely defeated as the one before. We, 
the amateurs of the United States of America, know our rights, and 
we will fight until we get them. And now, gentlemen, we ask you 
to help us to see that this law is defeated. 

I thank you, gentlemen, for your kind attention. [Applause.] 

STATEMENT OF MR. CHARLES H. STEWART, CHAIRMAN LEGIS- 
LATIVE COMMITTEE, WIRELESS ASSOCIATION OF PENNSYL- 
VANIA, ST. DAVIDS, PA. 

Mr. Stewart. Mr. Chairman, I have appeared before this committee 
on previous occasions in connection with this legislation, or legislation 
of a similar nature, and I have very little to say to-day. I think most 
of the members of the committee are familiar with what I had to say 
before. 

1K>770— 1J>— PT 3 r> 



/ 



300 ' GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

All I have to say is that we favor, in times of peace, the control of 
radio communication being left entirely in the hands of the Depart- 
ment of Commerce. As that has been stated very clearly by a number 
of other witnesses who have preceded me, there is no use in my ampli- 
fying on that to any extent. 

Mr. Maxim, in his statement to the conmiittee this morning, very 
ably expressed, in my opinion, the views of a vast majority of 
amateurs. 

There are one or tw^o points which were not touched upon, however, 
so far as I heard the testimony to-day. 

One is the question of the examination as to the speed of an oper- 
ator. That is all regulated at present, under the act of 1912, by the 
regulations promulgated by the Department of Commerce under the 
act of 1912. So that no further legislation is actually required to 
change any minor points of that kind; they can all be covered under 
the existing law. 

The second point which has not been brought out is that while a 
great deal of discussion has taken place in regard to interference by 
amateurs, I do not believe that there are any specific cases mentioned 
where, through such interference, if it did exist, any lives were lost; 
nor do I know of any specific cases where it did actually exist to any 
extent, so as to prevent the prompt sending of aid to a vessel. 

That is about all I have to say. I do not want to take any more 
time of the coimnittee; your time has been pretty well taken up al- 
ready in tliis discussion. 

The Chairman. The committee will now hear the next witness. 

STATEMENT OF MR. HARRY W. DENSHAM, COLLINGSWOOD, N. J. 

Mr. Densham. I am secretary of the South Jersey Radio Associa- 
tion, an association whose members cover the district throughout the 
southern counties of the State of New Jersey. 

Mr. Stewart and Mr. Maxim have taken quite a burden oflF my 
mind, and have relieved me of what I came to Washington to say; 
so that there is nothing I can say, other than that the members of 
our association have had very cordial relations with the Department 
of Commerce, and are perfectly satisfied for everything to go on as it 
has in the past. We have had no trouble anywhere in my district 
with either the Navy Department or the Department of Commerce. 

There is really nothing else I can put in that would not be a 
repetition of what has been gone through heretofore in these hear- 
ings. 

Mr. Hardy. Then you agree with Mr. Maxim, as I understand 

you ? 

Mr. Densham. Yes; w^e have had no trouble, and there is no reason 
for dissatisfaction on our part. 

Mr. Hardy. Are you one of those who conferred with the naval 
authorities in reference to that proposed amendment to the bill? 

Mr. DeKsham. No, sir; I have had nothing to do with anybody 
except those that I have been speaking to in this committee room. 

Mr. Edmonds. Do you mean you agree with Mr. Maxim's conclu- 
sion that it would be better to have it left in the Department of Com- 
merce, just where it is now? 



GOVERNMENT GONTBOL OF BADIO OOMMUNIOATION. 301 

Mr. Densham. Yes; in the Department of Commerce, just where 
it is now. We have had no trouble with anybody about it. 

Mr. BuKROUGHS. How do you feel toward the restrictive provisicms 
of this measure ? 

Mr. Densham. I am in a position where I have to keep to a half 
kilowatt — but that is a personal matter. If I was in a position 
where I would have to cut down from one kilowatt to one-half 
kilowatt, I would not be very well satisfied ; I mean with the result- 
ing necessity of having to throw away apparatus and buy new 
apparatus. 

Mr. Burroughs. Just what would be the effect on the efficiency of 
your station in going down from one-half kilowatt to one-quarter 
kilowatt ? 

Mr. Densham. It decreases the distance which I can transmit. 
One-quarter kilowatt, in the section of the country from which I 
come, is not good for more than 20 miles. Of course, on a clear, 
winter night, we have done better than that ; but that would not be 
general by any means. 

Mr. Hardy. Do you believe that these receiving stations ought to 
be licensed also? 

Mr. Densham. Only to show the strength of the amateurs, so far 
as I can see; so far as taking out a license for a receiving station, it is 
going to hurt a lot of jewelers who use it for getting their time sig- 
nals. It would be a good thing for amateurs, simply because it 
would show the exact number of men in the field. 

Mr. Hardy. Do you object to their being licensed? 

Mr. Densham. Positively no — provided there is no examination 
on the technical subjects. 

Mr. Hardy. I do not understand that there is any technical exami- 
nation for the issuance of a license. 

Mr. Densham. I do not know as to that. 

Mr. Hardy. Well, I would like to know; that is a part of this 
proposed amendment, and I would like to know whether you oppose 
or favor the licensing of receiving stations. I am frank to say that 
I favor it; I think it would be a good thing for the amateur as well 
as for the Government. ' 

Mr. Rowe. Would you be cut down under this proposed amend- 
ment to one-quarter of a kilowatt? 

Mr. Densham. Yes, sir; from a half kilowatt. 

Mr. Rowe. And you are very much opposed to that ? 

Mr. Densham. Well, naturally. We all want all we can get, 
although we do not want to cause any trouble or interference any- 
where ; we have not done so up-to-date, except in a few flagrant cases 
of violation of the rules that I have heard of. 

Mr. Burroughs. From a scientific or technical point of view, do 
you see any reason for cutting it down ? 

Mr. Densham. As Mr. Maxim said this morning — well, I might 
contradict him a Httlo. There is absolutely no reason why a station 
operating on one-half kilowatt, as they are to-day, would interfere 
with any other station. In fact, we have had no trouble with com- 
mercial stations. We had trouble with the Philadelphia Navy Yard 
some years ago; but since then the apparatus has been perfected a 
good deal, and there is no trouble now. 

Mr. Burroughs. What would you say the limit ought to be ? 



302 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OP RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Densham. Well, I am not much of a technical or scientific 
expert. I presmne it could be figured out mathematically ; but that 
is too deep for me. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions? If not, we will 
hear the next witness. This will be the last witness we will hear 
this afternoon, then we will adjourn until to-morrow; I hope that 
we will finish the hearings to-morrow. 

STATEMENT OF MR. FEANE B. CHAMBERS, PHILADELPHIA, PA., 
REPRESENTING WIRELESS ASSOCIATION OF PENNSYLVANIA; 
MISSISSIPPI VALLEY WIRELESS ASSOCIATION; COLORADO 
WIRELESS ASSOCIATION; ST. MARTIN'S COLLEGE, LACEY, 
WASHINGTON; AND AMATEURS OF THIRTEENTH NAVAL DIS- 
TRICT, PUGET SOUND. 

Mr. Chambers. My name is Frank B. Chambers; residence, 2046 
R Street, Philadelphia, Pa. 

I am an electrical engineer, and also a radio engineer. 

I have owned and maintained a radio laboratory, and I am deeply 
interested in the progress of the art. I come in contact with a lot 
of boys, because I make a lot of pieces of apparatus and parts of 
apparatus for boys. A lot of boys make their own apparatus as 
far as they caji go, but they have not the machinery to make them 
all; sometimes there are little things that they can not make. I 
myself have no big machinery ; most of my machinery is operated by 
hand, but it answers the purpose. 

If one went into a large field of manufacturing, of course my 
machinery would not do it. 

But I have watched the boys since 1905. I got taken up with this 
wireless proposition about that time, and I was doing pretty well in 
the commercial field as an electrical engineer, and I have had a very 
broad training. I have worked for telegraph, telephone, electric- 
light, and overhead street railway companies; and, of coiirse, after 
my education on the electrical end of it I am better qualified to 
speak of it. 

Of course, for a long while I had very huinble positions; but my 
later years, before I got deeply interested in the wireless — I have held 
positions as foreman, superintendent, and wire chief. I happen to 
be assistant wire chief of one the largest telephone exchanges in 
Philadelphia. So that I can look at this thing from a very broad 
angle. Probably if I had not got interested in the wireless, but had 
stuck to the other end of it, I might have been worth a good deal 
of money to-day. But I have done a great deal of work and have 
not made much money ; and if I did not have some other means of 
income, my wife might have to go out to work. However, we have 
managed for her not to do that, although, of course, if it was neces- 
sary she would do it. And I will tell you some of these men have 
been after information, and I find that they want an humble ex- 
planation; they do not want a deep, technical explanation; they want 
to be able to understand it. I can give you some little illustration 
to explain how the wireless situation looks to the amateur. This 
you can understand ; anybody can. Take it out on the farm. A lot 
of you gentlemen were probably raised on the farm. I say I can 
always tell a man who .was, even though he has a city polish on him ; 



GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. ' 

it shines through. He is supposed to be a man that usually talks k>Q 
loud and says too much ; that is the way you can tell he was raised 
on a farm. The city fellow hides behind some place and whispers. 

You know what a chicken is — a hen. You have seen him run 
aroimd the barnyard. The hen roosts in trees at night — out on a 
limb. 

And then you know the screech owl. A screech owl is a little 
bird, about this big [indicating]. He roosts on that same limb of the 
tree that the chicken is on. A screech owl is a wise bird and is not 
going up against that chicken about that high [indicating], because 
that chicken would club the head oflP of that screech owl. And there 
they are on that limb together, the chicken and the screech owl. And 
the screech owl waits until night, when the chicken becomes sleepy 
and bewildered. And the screech owl sees the chicken sitting on 
the limb, and he says, " I can not lick this chicken ; I have got to 
have some system in order to beat this chicken." 

And the chicken does not fear the screech owl because he sees the 
screech owl is so little, and he is not doing anything anyhow; the 
screech owl has not yet done anything, and so the chicken does not 
object to his sitting on the limb. 

But the screech owl after a while leans up against the chicken 
like this [indicating]. Well, the chicken is not very comfortable with 
the screech owl leaning up against her, so she moves farther over 
on the limb. Then she goes to sleep. She says to herself, " Rather 
than argue with this fellow I will just move over." 

Then when the chicken goes to sleep the screech owl moves over 
some more. After a bit the chicken says, " Aint that funny ; there is 
that screech owl up against me again ; I will just move again." And 
the chicken moves again ; and then when the chicken goes to sleep the 
screech owl moves over and leans on the chicken again. 

And in that way, when the screech owl gets the chicken out on the 
limb like this [indicating] — it is funny why a chicken which flies so 
well is yet afraid of falling off a tree. I could never understand that. 

But this chicken tries to hang on with her bill and claws to keep 
from falling on the ground. It would not hurt her a bit to fall, but 
she does not know that. 

Then the screech owl gets her in that position where she is helpless. 
Then the screech owl gets her on the head — and there is a dead 
chicken. [Laughter.] 

Now, of course, the owl had done nothing to hurt her, and she 
had no reason to think that the owl would, because the owl had acted 
so very politely to her when he roosted on the limb. However, the 
owl put one over on her when she was not looking. 

Now, the amateurs are very scared of the Navy for some reason. 
I do not know why. The Navy has got battleships, and they clean 
up so good when they undertake a job that it seems that you have not 
got much chance. When they clean you up once you can not get back. 

Mr. Edmonds. You are not trying to tell us that the Navy chases 
chickens, are you? [Laughter.] 

• Mr. Chambers. No; not like a screech owl. No; I have been look- 
ing around Washington to see if anything like that happens, and 
they do not do it. 

Well, anyway, the amateur has had experience with the Depart- 
ment of Commerce, and they have pleased the amateurs so well that 



304 GOVERNMENT GONTBOL OF R4DI0 OOMMUNIGAIION. 

the amateurs do not want to change. You know how you hate to 
leave your ^ome that has been so pleasant ; you are always doubtful 
whether you are goin^ to like the new one. 

Every time anybody has brought a bill up — ^this particular bill 
was brought up by the Navy Department: that is, they seem to be 
the ones that would like to have it put tnrough; and that is true 
in almost every instance. They have kind of forgotten about the 
amateur and left him out. 

There was a bill before this one that came up, that had the word 
^ amateur " in it. So we thought they had left that in the bill this 
time; and we were very much pleased with that, and said they had 
probably changed their attitude of ignoring us. 

But then another bill was presented in the place of that, and, of 
course, we looked for this word "amateur" to be in there; but we 
did not see it. Of course, we had nothing else to go by, but what we 
found in the printed bill. And when a thing becomes a law, if it is 
not in there, you can not say, " I thought they meant that to be in 
there " ; because usually, in courts they do not go by what you think. 
You dare not think ; you must simply have the facts and statements. 

So you gentlemen ought not to feel funnv because some of these 
amateurs feel antagonistic, because some of them think that the Navy 
Department wants to put them out of business. 

If those amateurs had been put into this bill, they might not have 
thought anything about it ; but when they saw that the word " ama- 
teur " was left out of the bill, they got scared. 

I would not like to see this proposed bill go through, even with 
that proposed amendment, because in the past the amateur, has, with- 
out any doubt, showed that he is of some material value — ^beyond 
question. We all agree on that point. 

The amateur had been think this way: We had always said the 
amateur would do something for the Government in time of peril; 
but they never had a chance to demonstrate that. So, when the war 
came on, we were glad of the opportunity — ^we were not glad there 
was a war ; but as long as the war had to come anyhow, we were glad 
of the opportunity. The war went forward, and the amateurs did 
such wonderful service in the war that they said, " The time has come 
to recognize that, and we will go down to Washington with a bill of 
our own, and we will say to the gentlemen there, ' Gentlemen, you 
gave us a condition in 1912 — a condition which all experts agreed 
was absolutely useless.' " When that bill became a law in 1912, and 
when the amateurs went away from this city, after having pleaded 
with Congress not to pass that bill as it was — ^they walked away with 
their heads hung low. I, with many others, thought that he had 
been trapped ; we thought that we had been done. 

It was not from any scientific point of view that they made that 
law, resulting in things being brought to such a successful issue as 
they are at the present time. 

When the war was declared, the amateurs were able to help the 
Government a great deal. But when they got up that law, they 
provided for a certain portion of territory that, at that time, nobody 
thought was usable; it was practically considered as thrown away. 
And the amateurs kicked so hard, and asked to be left in the field, 
that they said, in order to quiet them a little, " We will give you 
amateurs this little territory, up to 200 meters." 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 305 

Well, we did not like that. But finally Congress voted on it and 
said, in eflFect, "That is all you are going to get"; and they cut us 
amateurs down to half a kilowatt within 5 miles of a naw vard, and 
1 kilowatt beyond that limit. 

At that time our instruments were so poor that with one-half a 
kilowatt at that time we could hardly talk anyway. 

So I thought, and said to myself, "All my efforts have been wasted, 
and I suppose the amateurs will lose interest in wireless and drop 
out." 

But time went on and the amateur was not that kind of a man ; he 
did not quit. He came forth, under those narrow conditions which 
the law allowed him — and if you gentlemen only understood the 
business and knew how narrow and small the channel was that we 
were allowed, you would wonder whv an amateur would want to go 
into it at all. 

We took this little narrow strip that was sliced off for us and de- 
veloped it. We have done something, while the rest of them did not 
pay much attention to us. Generally, a fellow would say, " It is a 
little amateur up there and he does not do anything." But while the 
rest of them were not paying any attention, the amateur was working 
to develop that, because he could not do any better, and he went and 
developed conditions, by which he raised that condition of that little 
strip up to a better standard than the strip was at the time the bill 
was pa&sed before; there is no doubt about that. We were useful in 
that respect. We proved that we could do something; the war has 
proven that. 

We felt like a man that was handexl three measures of meal; we 
did not take tliis little wave length and hide it; we took this little 
wave length and increased it. 

And so when we came down here and found that you had another 
bill before von we could sav, " (xentlemen, we have doubled what vou 
gave us; can you not grant us a little bit more?" That is what we 
were going to ask. But instead of finding a bill broadening our ter- 
ritory, we found that they had squeezed it up l)y this new bill. 

Now, the' amateur is a funny pei-son. You might think that you 
' • r;^t('h bill! off iiis guard, like the screech owl caught the chicken'. 
Not so. 

The amateurs wanted more wave length. Thev got more wave 
lrM«irth: but thev squeezed the amateurs down on their power. That 
is not what he wants. He would prefer leaving the wave length as 
it is and leaving the power as it is: he would be better off under that 
rondition. 

Because, t will admit, that with the present conditions we do not 
know how to take a 1 kilowatt and get it in a 200-meter aerial and u^e 
ir to its full efficiencv we do not know iw^- to (\o that. 

But if you leave it that way there is something to work for, and 
we will trv to do it. And who can tell? Somebodv will i)robablv 
find a wav to do it. and we mav come to vou later on and sav, "We 
did not used to do it, but we can do it now." Whereas if you draw a 
dead line and say we can not cross that dead line — that we can work to 
a certain place and then we are dont» — the interest in the woi-k will 
stop, "^^ou gentlemen must all know that unless you have a shining: 
target in this life, something to advance yoiu'selves to and something 



306 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

to go and get, you lose interest, ^^lien we are satisfied, and find that 
we have no way of developing ourselves, but have come to a place 
where we have everything we want, there is nothing more in this 
world that we desire, and we have reached some positive conclu- 
sion — when that occurs we die. That is what we are taught. 

Now, we do not care to die. We have not come to that place where 
we think that we have thoroughly developed this thing, and we do not 
want you to put a fence up by which we can not go any further. 

Why not leave it the way it is, gentlemen, until we can probably 
say, "We now have filled this little space you have given us. We 
can now take a kilowatt and put it into a little space, say, 200 meters. 
Now, we want to expand. Can you kindly give us just a little bit 
more ? " Not a big chunk at a time, but just a little bit more, and 
then a little bit more later. And as we follow after it, keep giving a 
little bit more. You would not have to give much at a time. 

It would be just like raising a man's wages. If you do not want to 
pay him $20 a week at first, when he comes to you, you will scratch 
your head and say, " Bill, you have been here a long time, and I 
think I can make ends meet if I pay you a dollar more a week." Yoti 
can do that with Bill's wages every once in a while, and you can be 10 
years in raising that fellow's wages from $10 to $20 a week. And he 
will say, " I never had to ask my boss for a raise in my life." He 
will keep working. 

But ii you give him the whole $10 raise all at once, he will say, " I 
am getting about as much as anybody in this business, and I do not 
believe they will ever give me any more.'' He might lose interest in 
his w^ork. 

, Mr. Saunders. Let me ask you, in that connection, this question: 
Do you mean a little more in wave length or a little more in power? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes, sir; I would not say right now give him more 
power, because, under the narrow conditions of wave length, he can 
not use any more at this time. 

Mr. Saunders. You want the amateurs given more wave length at 
present, do you? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Saunders. What would vou fix as the maximum wave length 
thev should be allowed? 

Mr. Chambers. I will tell you that a very embarrassing thing 
stands in the way. We are facing a condition where we are going to 
run into an international convention which has set conditions, but 
probably the men that made those conditions realized that the time 
would come when the art would develop far enough when they would 
change those conditions. I do not doubt that a bit. 

Mr. Saunders. AVell, let us be definite. We do not know just what 
you mean by " a little bit more." You have got a limit of 200 meters, 
we will say. Do you mean by that that 250 meters would giv^you 
more latitude? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes ; if you gave us the power, but giving us a long 
wave length without the power would not benefit us. 

Mr. Saunders. Well, suppose we leave the power as it is and give 
you 250 meters in wave length, would that give you an additional 
field — would that give you a better field than the 200 meters ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes; then we could start and develop a little 
further, I will tell you men, if you only knew the art as it goes — ^you 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OP RADIO COMMUNiCATION. 307 

do not have to legislate to cut a man to half a kilowatt ; you have got it 
done ; only you did not know you had done it. It was probably a little 
piece of luck on your part; and we were so discouraged, because we 
had to take such a little wave length that we forgot all about it and 
went home crying. 

But we come to the point where we can improve and improve; and 
then we come to the point where we have to stop on account of the 
wave length. Now, you have got the wave leijgth fixed at 200 meters; 
and I have this big kilowatt ; but I come up to where I am using all of 
it, and the first thing I know I have overstepped my wave lengths, and 
I will come back. To get back, I have got to take oft my condenser, 
and shorten up my circuit to get down to 200 meters. And what is 
the consequence ? I have to sacrifice power ; and therefore, when I 
have taken out inductance and power to get down to 200 meters, I 
am back to one-half kilowatt. You see, you are in a position where 
you can use 10 kilowatts if you want to stick to 200 meters. We would 
not have any more power than we had under the act of 1912 ; the power 
that comes out is a certain amount ; and we have to have a certain wave 
in order to use it. So this wave length is governed by a thing called 
a " condenser " ; and a few turns of wire are connected together, and 
the wave length is derived from the square root of the products of 
those things. 

So that it would be just as reasonable for you to say to me, " There 
are 10 quarts of milk over there. You can have it all, provided you 
can carry it at one time in a quart measure." You have given me the 
milk, but there is a condition attached to it ; you have said, " You must 
go after it and carry it with a quart bucket ; you can have it if you can 
get it in a quart bucket." 

Well, if I did not know about that, that you could not get it in a 
quart bucket, I might go and look at the milk and look at the bucket ; 
and I would say, " How am I going to get that in the bucket?" Sup- 
pose I should pour it out anyhow in order to be spiteful ; suppose I 
should pour out that wh<rie 10 quarts of milk in this bucket just to 
spite you. That does not do me any good ; for when the bucket gets 
full, the remaining 9 quarts will run on the ground and be lost. I 
would be doing that simply for spite. It would be like the fellow that 
walked over the railroad track because he had a grievance against 
the Pennsylvania Railroad. He had bought a return ticket, and the 
next day I saw him and he was walking oack. I asked him, "Why 
do you walk back? Did you not have a return ticket? " He said to 
me, " Yes ; I have a return ticket, but I am getting square with the 
railroad; to get square with the railroad I am walking back." He 
was spiting nobody but himself. 

I might use a little slang once in a while, but excuse me, I do not 
mean to be personal. You gentlemen have misled the amateurs with 
a law that you have already got, that is just as tighf , just as firm, and 
just as strong: in your grip as you can get it. 

But one thing I do not understand is how the Navy handed us this. 
Because, maybe, they figure like this : 2 and 2 are 4, and 2 and 2 are 22. 
You know that. But there is another way : 

Naiifflit is naiijorlit and 2 is a fiffger, 
All for mo and none for the nigger. 

That is the way some people might figure. But this is six and 
half a dozen. They say to us, " Fellows, we are going to give you 250 



308 OOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF RADIO GOMMUNIOATION. 

meters." We say, " Hurrah !" But down further on we find the power 
is cut down. 

Mr. Saunders. In that connection let me ask you in respect to the 
range of your sending or transmission, do you send farther with 1 
kilowatt and a wave length of 200 meters, or with half of a kilowatt 
and a wave length of 250 meters? 

Mr. Chambers. Well, I tell you, as far as that goes, teclinically vou 
might prove that one mi^ht be better than the other ; but it would be 
so close that I do not thmk there would be much argument, because 
a man could, with his own kilowatt and 200 meters, he can get 
equal to a half kilowatt of power. A half kilowatt of power under 
certain conditions will send so far and no farther. And under this 
amendment they extend your wave length a little and cut down your 
power, and I do not see that there is much difference, only this way 
it shuts out any chance of your broadening yourselves. 

Mr. Saunders. Under the conditions as I have suggested do you 
say that the results would be practically the same ? 

Mr. Chambers. The only thing is that under this amendment the 
amateur can not expand; this puts a dead line, and he will have U> 
stay where this amendment puts him ; whereas the other way there is 
always a possibility of his expanding, of making the messages go 
farther, with a given amount of power, whereas this [indicating 
paper in witness's hand] prohibits that. 

Mr. Saunders. You are referring now^ to these suggested amend- 
ments ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes ; I say that I can not see that they have given 
anything by it. I can not see that. 

Mr. Saunders. Now, have you any amendment in mind to this, 
proposed amendment? If you have one, where would it come in? 

Mr. Chambers. Do you mean that you want me to make a sugges- 
tion of what I think ? 

Mr. Saunders. Yes. 

Mr. Chambers. Well, I am liable to ask for more power in this bilL 

Mr. Saunders. Suppose you did ask for more power; what would 
you ask for? 

Mr. Chambers. Not any more than Ave used in the past. 

Mr. Saunders. What is that? 

Mr. Chambers. They allowed us to use half a kilowatt within 5 
miles of a Government radio station, and if we were beyond 5 miles 
they permitted us to use a kilowatt. A kilowatt is a little over 1 
horsepower ; it is about a horsepower and a third. 

Mr. Saunders. If you were within 5 miles of a Government 
station 

Mr. Chambers. If we were outside of that 5-niile limit — and that 
means nautical miles — ^they allowed us to use 1 kilowatt to 200 metei^s. 

Mr. Saunders. Is that satisfactory to you? 

Mr. Chambers. We were trying to accomplish what we could 
accomplish with that. 

Mr. Greene. I want to ask a question. 

The' Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Chambers. If you gentlemen want to adjourn now, I can come 
on again to-morrow. 

The Chahjman. Well, we want to get through to-night; of course, 
you understand our time is very limited. 



GOYSBKMENT CONTROL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 309 

Mr. Chambebs. Yes, I know ; but I understand that you wanted in- 
formation, and if I can give it I will do so. I think some of the men 
on this committee have been asking questions that have not been 
fairly answered. The gentleman on my right [indicating Mr. 
Humphreys] asked a question that has not been fairly answered; you 
[indicating Mr. Humphreys] asked a question that I do not tmnk 
you got the answer to that you wanted. 

Mr. Humphreys. Suppose you give me the answer that you think 
I wanted. I do not know what question you refer to. 

Mr. Chambers. You got into a long discussion, and there was con- 
siderable confusion, if I may call it that, and I do not believe that 
either you or the witness understood when you got through what 
either one of you wanted. 

Mr. Humphreys. Well, suppose you illuminate the situation. 
[Laughter.] 

Mr. Chambers. Well, I will do that, and I do not consider that I 
am taking your valuable time for nothing. I am here as a servant 
to help you out. You wanted to know why Dr. Christian objected to 
that word " receiving " and not to Government stations. 

Mr. Humphreys. You did understand what I wanted, did you ? 

Mr. Chambers. I think I understood what you wanted. 

Mr. Humphreys. And you think the rest of them did not, and you 
think I did not? 

Mr. Chambers. It did not appear to me that you did, and I do 
not think you were satisfied with the answer that you got. 

Mr. Humphreys. I did not get any answer. But you understand 
it now, and you have guessed right. 

Mr. Chambers. Now, with that word in here [indicating amend- 
ment] the result is that if they wanted to enforce it, so that nobody 
could have over a quarter of a kilowatt, regardless of where he was 
in the United States, if they wanted to fix it that way. We amateurs 
have not only been cut from the kilowatt to one-half a kilowatt, but 
we have been cut clean down to one-quarter everywhere. Do you 
see what I mean? That is, not particularly because an amateur was 
near this station or that station or another station ; but if they made 
these stations thick enough or close enough together— they would 
draw a 10-mile mark around them and say, " Beyond these marks 
you can have a half kilowatt." But if they draw these circles thick 
enough they would touch, and there would be no place left in be- 
tween ; so that eventually this bill would say, and the way this thing 
is drawn, "A quarter of a kilowatt is the highest you can have.' 
It would not make any difference to this young amateur whether 
he was near the post office or near the Government station. That was 
not it. But if they would list these post-office stations with the Gov- 
ernment stations the country could become so thick that the amateur 
would be legislated down to one-quarter of a kilowatt. 

Mr. Humphreys. Do you want a longer wave length ? 

Mr. Chambers. Well, the Navy has shown here that, as they have 
abandoned the 300 meters — the Navy has shown that they would like 
to have from to 150 meters, we cari not kick about that; we have no 
good way to use that. 

Mr. Humphreys. Do you want a longer wave length? That ques- 
tion is plain ; will you please answer it? 



310 GOVEILNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Chambers. If it would not interfere with anybody we would 
like to have it. And if they do not want to use it, why not give it 
to us? 

Mr. Humphreys. Well, are you satisfied with the present wave 
length ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes; if you leave the power where it is; in the 
present law we have something to work for. 

Mr. Humphreys. Let me see if I understand this; you are going to 
make this perfectly clear, as I understand it. 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. 

Mr. HuMPHRErs. Do you want this bill amended so as to give the 
amateurs a longer wave length ? That is a question that can be easily 
answered. 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. 

Mr. Humphreys. You want that, do you ? 

Mr. ("Chambers. Provided we do not have to sacrifice power. 

Mr. Humphreys. I understand ; but you want a longer wave length, 
do you ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes; that would open the door .for a little wider 
expansion. 

Mr. Humphreys. If you can not get the longer wave length, would 
you still like to have the same power that you have now ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. 

Mr. Humphreys. Is that for the purpose of pouring the milk on the 
floor, to use the illustration which you have given ? 

Mr. Chambers. No, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. Well; you are still limited, according to your 
illustration, to the one-quarter of a kilowatt? 

Mr. Chambers. Well, I said when we first got the 200 meters that 
we could not use it to one-half of a kilowatt^ but we have foimd the 
way to do it now ; and it may be possible, in one or tWo years we may 
find some way to get that 1 kilowatt in that same space. If we can 
improve the sending apparatus we can do it. Now, we may miss it, 
but there is some possibility of us doing it. And if you leave that 
condition open we will work for it and try for it, and if we do not 
succeed there is no great harm done ; we will be the losers, because we 
have been wasting good, valuable energy. 

Mr. Humphreys. Now, I think I understand perfectly clearly why 
those other witnesses said they could operate within 5 miles of a naval 
or military station, but could not operate within the same limits of a 
Government station ; you have answered that, have you not? 

Mr. Chambers. They would not interfere with each other. 

Mr. Humphreys. That is the question you were going to make clear. 
I just want to know whether, in your opinion, you have made it clear? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. If not, I will try again. 

Mr. Humphreys. I am entirely satisfied. 

Mr. Greene. As I understand you, you are better satisfied with 
the law as it is than you would be to have it changed ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes. 

Mr. Greene. And under the Department of Commerce, as it is, 
you are better satisfied than to have that changed ? 

Mr. Chambers. Yes, sir ; I would prefer to leave it alone. 

Mr. Greene. That is what I understood. 

Mr. Chambers. Because we did not ask for anything; the ama- 
teurs did not ask for anything; we did not bring this bill in. 



GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 311 

The Chairman. Well, we have had your views now. 

Mr. Chambers. If you leave it the way it is until the rest of the 
boys come home, the great number of them, we can then all take 
part in this discussion, and I do not see why we could not come 
to a better conclusion than we can now. 

The Chairman. You have given us your views now, Mr. Cham- 
bers. 

Mr. Saunders. With respect to the development of the art itself, 
have the experimenters in the Naval Service contributed largely to 
that development, either in original discovery, or in the perfection 
of instruments. 

Mr. Chambers. I think that most of the development up to the 
present time has been started by amateurs. Of course, a lot of 
things started by the amateurs were taken up by men further ad- 
vanced in the art, to bring them to a commercial condition. Usually, 
the amateur does not bring it to a commercial condition, but he gives 
the higher skilled inventor the inspiration, in most cases. 

If you read over the inventions from 1835 — that was when the 
first wireless invention came out* some people are not aware that it 
dates back that far; however, it does. From that time all the way 
up to the present, you will find that all the development — that is, all 
the inventions — were made by men in public life; you will not find 
any anywhere made by other people ; or if they are, they are not in 
the records; if there were, they were selfish and kept it to them- 
selves. There is not in any public print that I can find any record 
of it. 

Therefore we think that there have not been any inventions made 
by anybody inside of the Government service. 

I remember that Marconi was an amateur when he discovered this 
thing ; and you will find that many men are now in the Government 
service, as commissioned officers; and the discoveries that they 
claimed were made while they were amateurs; and I think that the 
amateur is the source of supply for inventors, for operators, and 
for professionals ; and it is just like the good way to cure mosquitoes 
is to fill up the swamp where they breed. If you do anything that 
will stop the amateur, you will stop the progress of invention. 

I ought not to dwell on the commercial side ; but let me say that 
you gentlemen ought to leave it so that when the amateur gets pro- 
ficient, he will have somebody to go to to get a job. 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Chairman, will you have the testimony in re- 
buttal? 

The Chairman. No ; we are not yet through with the opposition 
to the bill, I believe.' 

Mr. Greene. Well, there is one matter that I would like to have 
borne in mind, which Commander Hooper said he would bring to 
the attention of Capt. Todd, and that is as to the question of the 
jewelers getting their time by wireless: I understand that the jewel- 
ers have not been able to get it since the war broke out; and Com- 
mander Hooper told nie, as I understood, that Capt. Todd was going 
to arrange that matter. I make this statement so that the matter 
will not be overlooked when the representatives of the Navy ap- 
pear before the committee. 

(Thereupon, at 5 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned until 
Thursday, December 19, 1918, at 10 o'clock a. m.) 



312 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Committee on the Merchant Marine and Fishijries, 

House of Representatives, 
^ Thursday^ December 19^ 1918. 

The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m., Hon. Joshua W. Alexander 
(chairman) presiding. 
The Chairman. We will now hear Mr. Davis. 

STATEMENT OF OEOEOE S. DAVIS, OENEBAL MANAGER RADIO 
TELEGRAPH DEPARTMENT, TINITED FRUIT CO. 

Mr. Davis. Although we were not among the ,larger companies 
mentioned by Commander Hooper as having contributed to the work 
of the Navy Department during the war, we are nevertheless a highly 
important factor in the development and maintenance of the radio 
business between the United States and Central and South America. 
Aside from the radio installations installed in our fleet of ships, we 
have shore stations in Louisiana and in the following countries of 
Central and South America: Colombia, Panama, Costa Eica, Nicara- 
gua, Honduras, and Swan Island. 

These stations, together with our ships, comprise the system of the 
United Fruit Co. radio stations, which system has been developed as 
an adjunct to its commercial interests in the United States and Cen- 
tral and South America, and it is this system which, if this bill is 
passed and the policy of the Navy as expressed, by the Secretary of 
the Navy in his testimony is carried out, will be utterly destroyed 
and the efficiency of our great organization — an organization employ- 
ing 35,000 persons — as a medium of furthering American commerce 
w2l have been impaired. 

Next to the Marconi Co., the United Fruit Co. is probably more 
heavily interested financially in radio than any other American cor- 
poration. 

The political and economic effect which the passage of this bill 
and the carrying out of the Navy Department's policy will have in 
Central America are so serious that we request an executive session 
of this committee to hear them. I wish to add, however, that some 
years ago, when the United Fruit Co. undertook the development of 
the banana and sugar industries and the general commerce of Central 
America and the West Indies, the lack of efficient means of communi- 
cation was one of the greatest handicaps. At that time, and up 
until some nine or ten years ago, we were dependent for our com- 
munications upon the Government-owned telegraphs of those coun- 
tries which, being so unreliable and inadequate' to give the service 
demanded, literally forced us to install our own telegraphs and tele- 
phones in those countries and also to establish a system of i-adio sta- 
tions, connecting with the United States, which would insure com- 
munication at all times. 

This system of stations was just as necessary, and is to-day just as 
necessary, not only to our own business, but to American business 
in general, as is the United Fruit Co.'s continued establishment and 
maintenance of hospitals, schools, churches, sewerage, and water 
works, piers, wharves, railways and beacon lights, in the countries 
of Central America. In fact, our organization has been built up 
around our ability to communicate quickly between any of the Cen- 



GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OP RADIO OOMMXTNICATTON. 313 

tral American countries and the United States and with our ships at 
sea, and the fact that the principal commodity handled between Cen- 
tral America and the United States is of a perishable nature makes 
it all the more important that we have the moral and physical control 
of all means of radio communication having to do with the handling 
of these ships and cargoes. 

In considering our radio system it must, therefore, be taken as a 
whole and not as individual units, and, as I testified before this 
committee two years ago, if we lose control of the United States ter- 
minal of this system it impaires the efficiency of the entire system, 
and if the control is lost through the passage of legislation such as 
is proposed, the effect might easily be so far-reaching as to absolutely 
destroy the etire system, a system built up only after years of effort 
and the expenditure of great sums in the furtherance of American 
commerce. 

The Navy Department state that if this bill is passed they will urge 
the governments of Central America to take similar steps ; that is to 
say, urge those governments to take over our stations and operate them 
as part of an inadequate and inefficient system, and thus defeat the 
very purpose for which the installations were made. The Navy 
Department does not undertake to say where these countries are 
going to ^et the funds to take over our stations, or to erect new ones. 
Perhaps it is the intention to supply them with the stations the same 
as was done in the case of Panama. In any event, not all of the 
governments of Central America have such enormous funds at their 
command that they can, overnight, spend $200,000 or $300,000 in 
erecting gt single wireless station, and even though it might be pos- 
sible for some of them to erect such stations, their operations, if 
carried on under the same principle that some of their Government- 
owned land wires are, would be entirely useless for commercial 
purposes. 

The Guatemalan Government station at Guatemala City is an ex- 
ample. The operation of this station by the Guatemala Government 
has never been a success, and during the Guatemalan earthquakes 
and since the Government of Guatemala has been almost entirely 
dependent upon the facilities of the Fruit Co.'s radio system for 
their radio communication. In fact, it was through the Fruit Co.'s 
system that all communication was held with Guatemala during the 
period the cables were interrupted by earthquakes. 

During the war, and especially since this country became actively 
engaged therein, our Government has been forced by the exacting 
requirements and need of prompt and energetic action, regardless of 
cost, to depart widely from its fundamental principles in domestic 
affairs. In various ways there has been a greater centralization of 
power set up to meet war conditions than was ever thought possible 
in the United States, and the greatest interest in this country at the 
present time, apart from the establishment of a stable per^ce agree- 
•ment between nations, is in getting the United States back to normal 
democracy in its Government and restoring freedom of private en- 
terprise in establishing and directing its industries and its trade. 

The proposed bill, H. R. 13159, is against this interest, and if 
passed will set up a complete Government monopoly of the radio- 
telegraph business in the United States and its possessions, and thus 



814 GOVERNMENT OONTBOL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 

perpetuate an emergency measure adopted solely to meet war condi- 
tions and warranted by war conditions. 

We have just fought a great war to make the world safe for de- 
mocracy, but if legislation such as this is to be an outcome of the war, 
the United States will have been made unsafe for business. It 
would be decidedly unsafe for business to go on expanding or even 
to continue if a firm stand is not taken against measures such as this, 
which kill individual effort and initiative. 

The business men of the country are being urged to expand Ameri- 
can trade and enterprise in all directions, but even at this time we 
have certain departments of the Government endeavoring to seize 
the principal mediums of communication, without which there can 
be no expansion in trade, and thrust Government ownership on this 
country against the wishes and interesi: of the public. 

It is un-American. It is following the principle of autocracy 
rather than of democracy to encourage legislation which would per- 
mit any department of the Government to extend its powers by seiz- 
ing business enterprises which have reached their high state of effi- 
ciency by the individual initiative and tireless work of the man power 
of the country. I maintain that peace should bring certainty to 
every form of legitimate enterprise as a practical application of our 
right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness rather than uncer- 
'tainty under Government ownership. 

Undet this bill the power of the Secretary of the Navy would be 
almost unlimited in radio matters, and that part of the general pub- 
lic depending upon radio as a means of communication, either with 
ships at sea or with foreign countries, would be subject to his slight- 
est whim. And it is conceivable that the perpetual censorship which 
Government ownership of means of communication would neces- 
sarily involve would be a source of great concern and annoyance to 
those using any medium of communication under Government owner- 
ship. 

Admitting that tlie present administration of the Navy Depart- 
ment is the most efficient in the world, it does not follow that subse- 
quent administrations would be equally as efficient and would not 
exercise in a tyrannical manner the ppwers given it in this bill. 
There is not a single provision in this bill to protect the general 
public from the abuses which, as has been demonstrated, particularly 
in Germany, always follow Government ownership ; on the contrary, 
it empowers the Secretary of the Navy to administer the radio busi- 
ness of the country under whatever regulations he sees fit, even to 
censor communication in time of peace, if he so desires, and in effect 
gives him control of interstate and intrastate as well as international 
communication without restraint. It gives to him the power to close 
stations in any State in the Union, regardless of the public or eco- 
nomic demand for the continuance of such stations, and it is left not 
to public demand nor the demands of business, but to the Secretary 
of the Navy, to decide whether the United States may take full ad-- 
vantage of the commercial possibilities afforded through the develop- 
ment of radio communication. 

Suppose that Congress does put the radio business of the United 
States into the hands of the Navy Department, could the Navy De- 
partment develop the commercial possibilities of radio? They 
h/iven^t the commercial connections or facilities in foreign countries 



GOVERNMENT CONmOL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 315 

to .compete with foreign-owned stations, and if they had the compli- 
cations sure to ensue should a department of the United States Gov- 
ernment openly enter into competition with private interests under 
foreign Governments would open the door to international diificulty 
which might have serious consequences. 

Aside from not being able to maintain a commercial organization 
in a foreign country, the Government has not such a permanent 
organization at home as is necessary to build up and take care of 
commercial business. The naval officers who would be in charge of 
various districts in the United States would continually be shifted 
from shore to ship and vice versa and the personnel^ whose term of 
enlistment is four years, is an everchanging one." It is therefore per- 
fectly obvious that it is impossible for the Navy to maintain an 
organization which would approach a private organization in effi- 
ciency. There would arise in this connection the question of ever- 
changing policies in the different attitudes bf various administra- 
tions toward the subject, and there is also the commercial develop- 
ment of inland radio. 

' The passage of this bill would mean that if some community of 
farmers or fishermen or anyone else in, say, Mississippi, Virginia, 
Louisiana, or Texas wanted to secure a means of communication from 
some isolated place and it was either too expensive or was impracti- 
cable to put in a telegraph or telephone, the privilege of installing 
radio would be denied them. 

Prior to the war great strides were being made in the development 
of radio to and from moving trains. Several railroads had estab- 
lished stations and were conducting experiments in an endeavor to 
perfect this communication. Under this bill it would be unlawful 
to establish these stations permanently. It would be unlawful to 
establish a large station in the vicinity of New York and in the 
vicinity of San Francisco to be used for the purpose of wireless tele- 
IDhony, even though by the installation and operation of this station 
in connection with the land telephone it would materially reduce 
telephone charges between New York and San Francisco and other 
points and even though no interference would result. In short, this 
bill Avould curtail private enterprise to such an extent that it would 
be unremunerative for inventors and scientists to devote any con- 
siderable time to further development of the art. 

The proponents of this bill contend that there is a demand for 
Government ownership of radio. Who is making this demand? 
Certainly not the general public. The steamship companies are not 
and neither are the radio companies. There is no demand. for it by 
any responsible public body. On the contrary, public opinion is 
setting itself against Government ownership. Former • Supreme 
Court Justice Charles Evans Hughes, speaking before the Institute 
of Arts and Sciences, discussing conditions following the war, as- 
serted that " Government enterprise tends constantly to inefficiency.'^ 
He characterizes as " enemies of libertv " — 

AU those whose interests lie simply in extending the activities of Government 
so as to enibraco all industry. It can not fail to be observed that even in con- 
nection with the war, despite the endeavor and patriotic impulse of countless 
workers, inefficiency in important fields of activity has been notorious. The 
notion that the conduct of business by Government tends to be efficient is a 
superstition cherished by those who either know nothing of Governinent or 

06770— 19— PT 3 6 



316 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

m 

who know nothing of business. Tlie instinct of the American people, I believe, 
can be trusted to thwart the insidious plans of these enemies of liberty who, 
if given their way, would not stop short of a tyranny which, whatever name 
it might bear, would leave little* room for pref(»rence as compared with 
Prussian ism. 

In a speech before the IJnited States Chamber of Commerce at 
their ninth annual dinner on December 5, Charles H. Schwab said — 

Our great tleet of cargo carriers will not be developed to the extent that It 
should be developed and will not be in a position to compete for the business of 
the world as it should unless it is privately owned. Private capital and private 
ownership will alone develop it. 

Other public men have expressed themselves in a similar manner. 
Mr. Schwab also said in his address before the chamber of commerce 
at Atlantic City on December 4 — 

The real development of any great enterprise depends on the individual 
enterprise of the American business man. I do not believe we will ever get the 
full economical development of any great branch of American industry that is 
not developed under private enterprise and by private capital. 

Expressions such as these coming from men who have been so* 
closely identified with Government ownership, and operation during 
the past 18 months are very significant. There is only one conclusion, 
and that is that these men who have had greater opportunities to 
study the practicability of Government ownership and operation 
have concluded that such ownership and operation is not only un- 
democratic, but ineflScient and is an unsafe policy for this country. 

The proponents of this bill argue that Government ownership of 
radio is necessary in upbuilding the American merchant marine. It 
is true that radio is a valuable adjunct to the merchant marine, but 
when we have such men as Charles M. Schwab warning us that unless 
the merchant marine and its facilities and adjuncts are privately 
owned they can not be developed, it is time to take some definite and 
decisive action which will defeat any attempt on the part of any gov- 
ernmental department to s^t up a Government monopoly of such an 
important part of our merchant marine business as the radio. It is 
true that this particular bill does not prevent private interests from 
owning and operating radio apparatus on board steamships, but it 
does prohibit private interests from owning and operating stations 
on shore, which are the terminals for the radio communications from 
ships, and if we are to have Govermnent ownership of these terminal- 
facilities we might as well have Government ownership of all steam- 
ships, railroads, or telegraph lines, or any other business requiring 
terminal facilities. 

The leading editorial in the Detroit Free Press for November 27, 
1918, is entitled "And Xow the Radio Companies." It says: 

A statonicnt prepared by tlie Navy Dejiartinent tells "Why the Government 
regards it as necessary for the Navy to operate, or control radio stations in this 
country." We will not attempt to refer to all the reasons offered by the Navy 
spokesman : none of those is especially convincing. One of them, however, Is 
quite interestiniA. This is a contention that, except in very special circum- 
stances, private radio companies have failed to make adequate financial return, 
hut that in most cases no" profit has been made except through the sale of stock. 
The business experts of the Navy Dej^artment slate that this is because a com- 
plete monopoly is necessary. The country also is given the astonishing informa- 
tion that the transoceanic telegraphy is not a serious competitor of the cable. 
So, in a considerate, paternalistic mood, the Government has decided to save 



GOVERNMENT CONTB.OL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 317 

private capital from hopelessly profitless enterprise by eliminating opportunity 
to engage in it. It seems pertinent in tliis connection to note that none of the 
State socialism schemes now being urged is the result of any demand by the 
people of the country. They are all distinctly administration urged ; they are 
being imposed on the Nation. 

In his annual report Postmaster General Burleson again asks for 
Government ownership of the telegraphs and declares that the prin- 
ciple of Government ownership has proved a success under his direc- 
tion. ISFo convincing proof of this alleged success is furnished. The 
telegraph business is now a Government monopoly. Individual initia- 
tive, competition, and pride of service is in the background, and like 
all Government monopolies the tendency is not toward efficiency 
but toward inefficiency and waste. In fact, Capt..Lipsner gave waste 
and inefficiency in the areo mail service as the reason for his resigning 
from the superintendency of the air mail service, saying that he could 
not be party to wasting the taxpayers' money in carrying out the 
ideas of the Postmaster General. 

Now, are you going to permit the passage of this bill, which would 
set up a Government monopoly of the radio business, knowing full 
well that it, too, will sooner or later resolve into an autocratic service 
and lend itself to uneconomic expenditures andperhaps waste of pub- 
lic funds? The Postoffice Department is for Gx)vernment ownership 
of all telegraph business, but it is not in favor of that ownership, or 
any part of it, being vested in the Navy Department. If this bill 
were passed the Post Office Department would doubtless endeavor 
within a short time to have the control vested in them rather than in 
the Navv. 

During the past year I have watched very carefully for any demand 
on the part of the general public for Government ownership of radio, 
but, aside from a demand made by the Radio Division of the Navy 
Department and of course the Post Office Department, there has not 
been, so far as I have been able to ascertain, the slightest demand for 
Government ownership. Not even the labor unions are in favor of 
Government ownership of radio. They realize that if such ownership 
is vested in the Navy Department it will mean that the stations will 
be manned by naval radio operators receiving from $30 to $70 or $80 
per month, whereas under private control the operators will receive 
from $75 per month upward, mostly upward. 

As has been stated on numerous occasions before this committee, 
Government ownership has been tried in various countries of Europe 
and has been found wanting. It was to America that Marconi brought 
his invention, and it is in America that the developihent of that in- 
vention has attained the highest perf ection-^a perfection which even 
Marconi himself seemed to realize could not be obtained in Europe. 
The telephone, the telegraph, the railways, in fact, all public utilities, 
have reached a higher state of perfection in this country than in any 
other. Why ? Because, as Schwab says, " The real development of 
any great enterprise depends upon the individual initiative of the 
American business man." And if this bill is adopted the blame for 
stifling this individual initiative in one of the greatest modern develop- 
ments of science will rest with the proponents of this bill. The greatest 
development in radio apparatus has come not from any government 
but from individuals in the employ of commercial radio companies. I 
refer particularly to the valve or audion type of receivers and sus- 



318 GOVERNMENT OONTBOL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 

tained wave transmitters, all of which had their inception under pri- 
vate rather than governmental enterprise. The recent discoveries of 
Mr. Weagant, which all of us confidently hope will go a long ways 
toward solving the problems of interference and static, is another 
example of the development by private enterprise rather than by 
governmental enterprise. 

Government ownership of public utilities in Germany had probably 
reached its highest state of perfection just prior to the outbreak of 
the war in 1914. They had been developed as Government monop- 
olies for years, with the sole end in view, as we now know, of the 
expansion of Prussianism throughout the world. Do you suppose 
that Germany would have dared to embark on such a wild scheme 
of world domination unless she had first established complete govern- 
mental monopolies of all industries which they thought would insure 
success? The result of years of Government ownership in Germany 
was to establish an autocracy which, having through these Govern- 
ment monopolies such absolute control of the people, brought about 
the greatest war in all history. Fortunately for the world, this 
autocracy was overthrown; but it was no sooner done than our own 
governmental authorities have bills introduced in Congress which, if 
passed, would in time tend to set up an autocracy such as the one 
which we have just overthrown. 

This proposed bill for Government ownership of radio is only the 
beginning. If it passes, I believe that the cables will be next, then 
the telegraph lineSj, then the telephone lines, and then spread to other 
industries until we in this country are as completely dominated as 
were the people of Germany. I also believe that if this bill, which 
places control of commercial radio in the hands of the Navy Depart- 
ment, is passed, the Post Office Department will take that control 
away from the Navy Department in less than five years' time. In 
fact, the Post Office Department in the hearings on H. R. 19350, on 
Januarv 11, 1917, stated that while they favored Government owner- 
ship OT radio they did not favor such ownership being exercised 
through the Navy Department, but felt that it should be exercised, 
and ultimately would be exercised, through the Post Office Depart- 
ment. 

As ftirther evidence of the complete failure of Government owner- 
ship of public utilities, one needs only to refer to the book by the 
great French publicist, Yves Guyot, " Where and Why Public Owner- 
ship Has Failed." Guyot as vice president of the Municipal Council 
of Paris, Deputy to the French Parliament, minister of public works 
for four years, "and president of the Political Economy Society of 
Paris, was in a most excellent position to study and compare Govern- 
ment ownership with private ownership over a period of years, and 
. he savs : 

1. PubUc monopolies kill the spirit of initiative by destroying competition. 
The ultimate result is fatal industral lethargy. 

2. Public operation emphasizes the special demands of the community rather 
than fundamental necessities, and provides opportunities for graft and corrup- 
tion. 

8. Operation by States and local governments is more difficult than private 
management. This is a rule which holds good, despite a few apparent excep- 
tions, 

4. Government employees, paid for their loyalty to the public interest, come 
to consider their position as their own private property, and the more numerous 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RAPIO COMMUNICATION. 3 19 

tliey are, the more they incline toward exchanging their rdle of snbordinates 
for that of masters ; from being directed they become the directors. 

5. Intervention of the public power has an adverse influence upon the dis- 
tribution of wealth-; sometimes it is the whole body of taxpayers who must 
suffer for the sake of some privileged class, sometimes the consumer is de- 
frauded to benefit the taxpayer. 

6. Neither Government nor municipal monopolies are novelties; they are 
antiques ; they are not indicative of evolution but of retrogression. The motive 
behind public undertakings is often political or administrative influence for their 
promoters. 

7. The propaganda of Govemmenjt ownership has established more firmly 
than before the truth of the following industrial laws : 

First. Neither States nor municipalities should attempt tasks especially 
adapted to individual effort. 

Second. In the case of those utilities in wjtich the public interest is general 
there must be a physical artd moraUy responsible body accountable to the 
public on one hand and the service on the other, and protected by contracts 
against vacillations of public opinion and the extortionate demands of inter- 
ested groups. 

i 

In drawing these conclusions Guyot is not influenced by theories, 
but by facts gleatied while he :Vvras minister of public wotks oi 
France — where they have had Government ownership for years — 
and from travel and study in other coimtries where Goverriment 
ownership of public utilities has been established. And yet in spite 
of our knowledge of the inefficifency of Goverriment ownership in 
Europe, in spite of the proof of that inefficiency as compared to 
American commercial efficiency, in spite of the warnings of our own 
countrymen who have administered both private and governmental 
ownership and have warned us that it is only under private con- 
trol that we can hope to maintain efficiency, we have certain depart- 
ments of our Governmeht urging us to try out in this country a 
policy which is admittedly a failure wherever it has been tried. 

Statements have been made before this committee to the effect 
that the radio business does not pay, and for that reason com- 
mercial companies are glad to turn it over to the Government. I 
want to assure you that we will be anything but glad to be forced 
to turn over to the Government our radio business, the result of years 
of effort and the expenditure of large sums. Commander Hooper 
was in error when he stated that we favored this bill or previous bills 
which would destroy such an essential part of our steamship bus- 
iness. 

The Navy Department seems to think thatt it is a inaltter of little 
moment to us as long as we receive " just compensation "—and "just 
compensation " as it can be defined under this bill would riot begin to 
compensate us for the amounts expended in the development of this 
service, let alone the enormous losses to our business which are 
bound to ensue through lack of moral control over the operating 
force. As I read it, "just compensation" under this bill would 
be the physical value of the properties and the good will. No pro- 
vision IS made for reimbursing companies such as ourselves for 
amounts expended in the development of the entire system or of the 
particular unit which would be taken over. The physical value of 
the station may be $100,000, but an outlaly of $300,000 may have been 
made in perfecting the plant to bring it to its present stage of effi- 
ciency. Nothing is said in the bill about compensation for this ex- 
penditure, but on the contrary all chance of earning even the interest 
on the entire amount is taken away. 



320 GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 

For example, we at New Orleans have two pieces of property, 
both carried as a wireless investment. The present station is located 
on one piece and the other is being held pendinff the installation of a 
distant control system. There is nothing in this 'bill which would 
compensate us for the loss of the second piece of property. Cer- 
tainly the Navy could not take it over under the terms of this bill, 
as there is no wireless apparatus located in it at the present time. 
Even if the bill were passed it would be decidedly unjust to the radio 
companies who have brought the art to its present stage of efficiency 
and commercial development merely to take their lands at their 
physical value and not provide for reimbursement of sums which 
have gone into the development of the property and which are not 
evidenced by physical property at the present station. 

Among other things the Navy Department are urging the passage 
of this bill on economic grounds. Where or how they expect to 
effect economics in operation has not been clearly stated. However, 
it has been our experience that the operation of merchant vessels 
and commercial shore stations by the Navy Department is not 
economical. 

When certain of our ships were commandeered and placed in 
service as transports the Navy Department took over the operation 
and maintenance of their radio. At the time the ships were turned 
over to them the radio was in good condition and repair, but within 
a very short time we began to receive requests to send to the com- 
mandant, navy yard. New York, certified checks for amounts vary- 
ing from $25 to $125 to cover the cost of repairs to the radio appa- 
ratus. These letters stated that the difference between the amount 
remitted and the cost of the repairs would be returned to us. When 
the first of these letters were received we inspected the ships ourselves 
to ascertain just what these repairs were, and found in each case 
that they were minor repairs which, under our own system of in- 
spection and repair, could have been made at the expense of a few 
dollars. Later, after the repairs had been made, some of them by 
the Navy department, we received bills for $25 and $30 to cover 
repairs which we could ordinarily make with our organization for 
$4 or $5. This is true not only in one case but in nearly each 
and every case which came to our attention. I do not say this as a 
criticism of the officials of the Navy Department, but rather of a 
system which lends itself to such uneconomical ways of doing busi- 
ness. 

At our New Orleans station we maintain a night and day watch 
with four men. Wlien the Navy Department took over the operation 
of this station I am informed 12 men were assigned there. 

So, when we come down to a question of economy in operation, it 
seems to me there is no question but that the system under which the 
Navy Department are forced to carry on business is exceedingly un- 
economical from a commercial standpoint. 

In commercial business the law of supply and demand must gov- 
ern; in the Navy military considerations must govern; and, if you 
turn over radio commercial business to the department they, taking, 
as they must, the military view first, last and always, must do things 
in a military way rather than in a commercial way, with consequent 
economic losses. 



GOVERNMENT CONTEOL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 321 

Another reason given by the proponents of this bill for Govern- 
ment ownership of radio is interference. This question was dis- 
cussed at great length at the hearings on a similar bill some two 
years ago, and it was brought out at that time that the stimulus of 
commercial return would m time overcome this problem. Inter- 
ference is caused by the sending of messages. Now, the mere fact 
of Government ownership is not going to reduce the sending of 
messages unless you also restrict the number of messages to be sent 
by any one station. The problem is the same to-day in radio as it 
was in the early days of the telephone — the problem of several mes- 
sages over one wire, or, in the case of radio, several messages simul- 
taneously through one station. In the case of the telephone science 
overcame the difficulty and science is overcoming the difficulty in the 
case of radio. None of the commercial companies that I know of 
have complained that they were unable to do business on account of 
interference. The only complaint is from the Navy Department, 
and certainly if the comiriercial companies are able to get along under 
present conditions, handling the volume of business they do without 
undue interference, the Navy Department should be able to do the 
same. 

Prof. Pupin, who invented the means of preventing interference on 
the telephone, testified before this committee two years ago that 
science can and will, if given a chance, completely solve the problem 
of interference and static in radio. 

You have heard Lieut. Cooper testify that in one room in the Navy 
Department they can send and receive from five stations simul- 
taneously. A comparatively short time ago this was unheard of. 
The apparatus had not been perfected to a point to permit of it, and 
how can we foresee that further development will not completely 
eliminate this interference question? However, if you try to legis- 
late interference out of existence, what will be the use of inventors 
and scientists spending valuable time on this problem ? With inter- 
ference legislate'd out of the way the development of the art would 
be curtailed and the use of radio communication by the public 
restricted. 

Through its purchase of the shore stations of the Marconi Co. it 
seems to me that the Navy Department have gone a long way to 
eliminate any interference. Those stations comprise the greatest sys- 
tem of coast stations for ship-to-shore work in the United States, and 
under existing laws the Navy can open them to commercial business. 
I understand that in taking over these stations the Navy Department 
have secured an agreement fronrthe Marconi Co. to the effect that 
the latter will not reerect commercial shore stations in competition 
with the Navy. Whether or not this is in violation of the Sherman 
antitrust law is not for me to say, although if we compare it to the 
agreement between the American Telephone & Telegraph Co. and 
the Western Union Co., which the Attorney General prevented being 
carried out, it looks as if the Marconi-Navy agreement might be in 
direct violation of the spirit of the Sherman law. In any event it is 
safe to assume that had two commercial companies entered into any 
such agi^eement they would have been in danger of prosecution by the 
Department of Justice. 

Now. in view of the purchase of these stations, and in view of the 
existing laws which permit the Navy to open them up to commercial 



322 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

business, where is the need for apy further legislation? Why should 
the Navy seek to prohibit private enterprise from entering this iSeld 
unless they are afraid of commercial competition? And how are the 
Navy, who are not a commercial body, and who are not organized 
along commercial lines, going to keep in touch with the commercial 
demands. They are trained along military lines and inust consider 
everything from a military standpoint, with the result thai commer- 
cial business would have to suffet. 

What we need more than anything else in radio is a little flexibility 
in the international convention and in the law. Under the interna- 
tional convention the wave length to be used by all ships is defi- 
nitely fixed, and this prevents ships taking advantage of the advances 
in science in the way of utilizing other wave lengths. Any law that 
is passed now by this Congress is not going to cSiange the rules and 
regulations of the international convention. We miist abide by those 
rules until the meeting of tKe next intehiational convention and the 
formulation of new regulations by that body, and I want to say right 
here that I hope at the next radio cbnjferfence the commercial interests 
in radio can have representation, something which, so far as 1 have 
been able to determine, they did not have in the last conventibh. 
The delegation from the United States should be large enough so as 
to include at least one man from a commercial operating company 
who can present to the convention the commercial side of the ques- 
tions which will, arise. 

Section 3 of the bill in effect provides that no station for any 
purpose except experimental and technical school purposes shall be 
erected in any State in the Union. It does not say this in so many 
Avords, but that would be the effect of this section, as it is a practical 
impossibility to put up a station, which, with the delicate apparatus 
we have to-day, can not be heard beyond the limits of the State. This, 
to my mind, infringes the State's rights. Under this section you could 
not erect two stations in the intei^ior of a great State like Texas re- 
gardless of whether such stations caused interference or not, merely 
because they might be heard in Oklahoma. 

Section 5 of the bill might justly be termed a " camouflaged " sec- 
tion. It gives the Secretary of the Navy almost unheard-of dis- 
cretionary powers, and where is the man who is going to invest 
$25,000 or $80,000, or more, in erecting a wireless station to be used 
only for such period as is deemed proper by the Secretary of the 
Navy? Under this section the Secretary is not even compelled to 
issue a license. It merely says he " may do so." 

This bill might also and probably would be interpreted to cover 
sound signals transmitted through water or the ground by means 
of an electrical system. Most of us are aware of the work of Prof. 
Fessenden in this connection and know that by means of electric 
oscillators he has been enabled to send messages 50 or 75 miles through 
water or the ground, and has even telephoned a distance of 15 or 20 
miles, but imder the terms of this bill that system of communication 
would become a Government monopoly, and if private interests 
wanted to install some such system of communication, say between 
Minneapolis and St. Louis, down the Mississippi River, it would be 



GOVEENMENT GONTEOL OF BADIO OOMMUNICATION^ 823 

Impossible for them to do so. They would have to apply to thte I^ayy 
Department and the Navy Department would have to come to Con- 
fess to get an appropriation, and like ^he telegraph aria telephone 
m early days when it was under the Post Office Departriient, Congress 
might naturally balk at spending public money on soinethirig s6 new 
and hazardous, with the result that conununication woufld not and 
oould not be established. 

Under this bill it would be impossible to install stations for f)ublic 
communication between any States in the interior of the country, 
whether they would cause interference with sea sign«iling or noL 
<ixcept those stations be manned and operated by the Navy, and 1 
very much doubt whether anyone in the Navy would be competent to 
judge whether Denver should have radio communication with Topeta, 
or whether a grouf) of farmers in Missouri should liav^ r^dio com- 
munication with some other group in Wisconsin. In a[ny event, this 
bill removes all possibility of development along those lines — a de- 
velopment which^ if yve can judge from other means of communica- 
tion, is a perfectly logical one. 

I am in. favor of giving the Navy all the wireless stations and 
wireless equipment it needs for military purposes ' and military 
training, or lor anything that will enable it to maintain first place 
among the navies of the world. 

In time of war the Navy can always exercise the same exclusive 
and effective control over all radio stations that it has just been 
exercising during the recent emergency, but if this bill is passed 
and the Navy undertakes the commercial development of radio, 
you will upset a perfectly good military organization by forcing it ^o 
engage in a field far removed from its training and proper sphere 
of activities, do a gross injustice to private American enterprise 
already actually engaged in this business, open the way for serious 
international complications, and artificially hamper and discourage 
individual initiative and inventive genius of Americans in develop- 
ing and protecting one of the most important and promising dis- 
coveries of mankind. . ...... 

I just want to add a word here about the London Badio Conyen- 
tion. Under the present convention, the London poi:ivention of 1912, 
two wave lengths were fixed for sea signaling; that is, for what we 
call general public correspondence. I think jbhe wording oi the regu- 
lation is that two wave lengths are authorized, for general public 
service between ships at sea and shore, one of 300 meters and one of 
60k) meters. 

Now, there is nothing in this bill, there is nothing this Congress can 
do, to change that regulation. And as interference is caused by the 
sending of messages, and as the international convention requires 
us to send those messages on 600 metei^s or 300 meters, how canj^ou 
do anything now to legislate interference out of the way? xou 
must leave it to science, ancj the London Radio Convention recog- 
nized that when it made that law. 

Mr. Bankhead. Who represented the United States in that in- 
ternational convention? 

The (^iiATRMAX. T think Capt. Todd was the representative of this 
country to the London convention which made those regulations. 



324 GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Davis. I referred to the London Badio Convention. I under- 
stand we had an American delegation to the London Eadio Conven- 
tion of 1912. 

The Chairman. I say, I think Capt. Todd was a member of 
that conference. 

Capt. Todd. I should be glad to answer any questions about that. 

Mr. Davis. On that delegation we had any number of govern- 
mental representatives, but as far as I know we did not have a single 
commercial radio man. 

The Chairman. I do not know that you lost anything by that; I 
have never heard anybody questioning the wisdom of the regu- 
lations. 

Mr. Davis. I am not questioning the widsom of the regulations. 

The Chairman. These regulations were primarily, I think, for the 
ship-to-shore business. I do not know whether they extended beyond 
that. 

Mr. Davis. Mr. Chairman, I have always observed that in any 
convention of such wide scope as the London Radio Convention if 
America was represented an American business man was there. 

The Chairman. Do you think it would have done any good if you 
had been there ? 

Mr. Davis. We could probably have aided in the discussion; prob- 
ably we would have aided it a good deal. 

The Chair:man. I do not know anything about that convention. 
All I wanted to do was to differentiate between that cojivention 
and the one on safety of life at sea. You seemed to be under a mis- 
apprehension about that. That was the convention in wliicli 1 was 
chairman of the American delegation. 

Mr. Davis. There has been a great deal of discussion before the 
committee about the monopoly of radio, Mr. Nally said he hoped to 
obtain 100 per cent. I do not like to tear down a house of cards, 
but I will assure you or anyone that the United Fruit Co. would 
have prevented, through the operation of its system, tiie entire 
monopolizing of the radio business, and will if this bill is not passed. 

Mr. Hardy. And you think the United States is not big enough 
to prevent a monopoly as to them ? 

Mr. Davis. It is not a question of being big enough ; it is a question 
of the demands of service. 

Mr. Hardy. What I am suggesting is that your company is so 
powerful and strong they are not afraid of being trampled down 
by a powerful monopoly ? 

Mr. Davis. We were not always powerful ; when we went into the 
radio business we were one of the smallest of the radio companies. 

Mr. Hardy. As a matter of fact, a private monopoly can not crush 
something that is nearly as big as it is, can it? 

Mr. Davis. I have never heard of it being done ; no, sir. 

Mr. Hardy. So your company is pretty nearly independent of the 
effects of a private monopoly ? 

Mr. Davis. Yes ; we are independent, except in the sense that we 
must come to the Marconi Co. or somebody else to secure patent 
rights. The granting of a patent gives them a monopoly, and no 
matter how big you are you can not break that down. 



GOVERNMENT OONTBOL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 325 

Mr. Habdy. You do not maintain as many diflFerent stations on 
each side of the water or as many of them as may be needed, but you 
are in a measure independent of the Marconi monopoly ? 

Mr. Davis. We are independent of any monopoly. 

Mr. Hardy. Exactly ; but how many other people are in your po- 
sition? 

Mr. Davis. Any number of them, if they want to engage in the 
business. The Alaskan Steamship Co. did it. 

Mr. Hardy. It was said tfiat Mr. Nally's suggestion here the other 
day was a pipe dream. 

Mr. Davis. If Mr. Nally or anyone els6 can show any big company 
that he can give better service and cheaper service than they can pro- 
vide for themselves you may rest assured they will take it. 

Mr. Hardy. Oh, all the big companies can go out for themselves, 
but the public generally can not do that. You understand very well 
that a big, powerful corporation, like the Armours, for instance, can 
handle a good deal of freight for themselves, and the United States 
Steel Corporation does not have to submit to exorbitant freight rates. 
But the public has to submit when competition comes in. You think 
the remedy against private monopoly is regulation and restriction? 

Mr. Davis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Hardy. Do you know it has taken at least 12 years — and we 
have not got it yet — ^to obtain an interchange of transfers between the 
two alleged separate street car systems in the city of Washington? 

Mr. Daves. I have heard so. 

Mr. Hardy. We have regulated, but we do not accomplish anything. 

Mr. Davis. On the other hand. Judge Hardy, we have the Food 
Administration and the Fuel Administration, who have administered 
to 100,000,000 people by regulation, and I believe it was pretty suc- 
cessful. 

Mr. Hardy. That is one thing in tHis administration you seem to 
think is a success, but everything else you think is not? 

Mr. Davis. No; I have not said that. 

Mr. Hardy. You are criticizing the inefficiency of this administra- 
tion because it has not been economical. Has anything been eco- 
nomical ? 

Mr. Davis. I have not criticized this administration at all. They 
have been forced by circumstances into enormous expenditures. 

The Chairman. Let us not get so far afield ; let us stick to this bill. 

Mr. Hardy. I should like to ask some questions along the line on 
which the gentleman has been speaking. You spoke of one difficulty 
in the way of a Government-owned service that it could not cooperate 
with other countries. Is there any reason why the service owned by 
the Government in this country could not form the same kind of 
cooperation as a private monopoly could? 

Mr. Davis. I do not think they could ; no. 

Mr. Hardy. You think that the naval service here could not make 
arrangements with other companies just like the Marconi service 
does ? 

Mr. Davis. They could not make as good arrangements, because 
they have not the authority nor the personnel to go out and solicit 
business. 



326 GOVEBNMENT CONTROL OP BADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Hardy. Your judgment, then, is that it is absolutely inipos- 
sible for a government agency to accomplish anything? 

Mr. Davis. No ; I do not say that. 

Mr. Hardy. They could not have the agents to go out and make 
these arrangements? What I want to know is why the Govemirient 
can not make the same kind of arrangements, if they own the btia- 
ness in this country, that you could ? 

Mr. Davis. Merely because they are the Govemriient. 

Mr. Hardy. Because they are incompetent. 

Mr. Davis. Not because they are incompetent, but because they iw 
bound down by laws which would not permit a department of the 
tJnited States Government to go into foreign countries and solicit 
business from privately owned concerns. 

Mr. Hardy. You think, then, the laws would be more liberal to- 
ward a private corporation and private monopoly than toward tKi 
Government itself ? 

Mr. Davis. I think they would ; they always have been. 

Mr. Hardy. I just wanted to get your poiiit of view. You said this 
bill would make inventions unremunerative, because of lack oi coin- 
petitive markets ? 

Mr. Davis. Yes. 

Mr. Hardy. Would you not have the same condition if ybu had a 
private monopoly ? 

Mr. D4VIS. Well, but you can not get a private monopoly. 

Mr. Hardy. That is a question between you and Mr. Nally. 
He thinks you can get a private monopoly, and I think, so too, 
except in the case of some big company like your own ; you can run 
your own business. 

But now let me ask you this: You spoke about the Governmelit's 
operation of this wireless service being inefficient during the wstr, 
notwithstanding the patriotic impulse of the public generally to 
serve. Were not other departments — ^the railroads, for instance — 
inefficient before the Government took them over? Were inef not 
suffering from a congestion ? 

Mr. Davis. 1 know, but it was not the fault of the railroads that 
they were inefficient. 

Mr. Hardy. Oh, you are willing to excuse the railroads unfler 
private ownership), but when the Government takes charge you at- 
tribute it to Government ownership? Was not everything during 
this war in a condition of confusion ? 

Mr. t)Avi8. Why perpetuate that confusion in tiine of ^eace? 

Mr. Hardy. Was not the cohfusiori the result of the conditions of 
the war? You are laying it to the Government, and it was appli- 
cable to private enterpise as well as to the Government, was it not? 

Mr. Davis. I merely quoted what I did aibout Government owner- 
ship to bring before this committee the fact that wherever Govern- 
ment ownership had been tried it has proven a failure. 

Mr. liARDY. But the point I ani making is that you" are blaming 
Government ownership with the conditions that existed during the 
war? 

Mr. Davis. No ; I quoted here from Yves Giiyot, and he has sho^n 
in his writings that Government ownership in Europe prior to the 
war has been a failure. 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RAl>IO COMMUNICATION. 327 

Mr. Hardy. But you can find plenty of other writers who say just 
the contrary^? 

Mr. Davis. I have never seen any who put up any good argument 
for it. 

Mr. Hardy. Well, of course, you did not appreciate the argument. 
I have seen quite a number of them that uphold the efficiency of the 
German railroad ownership, saying that it is economic. You quoted 
Mr. Schwab as being opposed to Government ownership. Would 
it not be just as reasonable to expect Mr. Nally there to favor Gov- 
ernment ownership? He is the head of a wonderful combination, 
is he not ? 

Mr. Davis. Mr. Schwab has always been known as a very fair, 
broad-minded man. He was called upon by President Wilson to 
come down here and put his brain into this thing. 

Mr. Hardy. I want you to understand that I do not attack the 
honesty or sincerity or patriotism of a man because he believes in his 
own interests. If I had a great private enterprise I would not want 
the Government to take it over, either. Mr. Schwab, however, is the 
head of one of the great combinations that has been dominating the 
production of all steel projects here for the last several years. Do 
you expect that kind oi a man to favor Government ownership ? 

Mr. Davis. He has had a chance to look at it from an unbiased 
standpoint. 

Mr. Hardy. Now, I want. to know why you are not willing to trust 
the Marconi system with the administration of your wireless, but 
want to establish your own wireless ? 

Mr. Davis. Because we have tried the Marconi, the De Forest, and 
the Government, and they have none of them been able to satisfy 
us when it came down to our own radio communications. We are 
dealing in a perishable product, and we must have moral control 
over our operating forces. 

The Chairman. What do you mean by "moral control"? 

Mr. Davis. The right to dictate to them. 

Mr. Hardy. If I understand you rightly, you are not willing to 
trust the Marconi monopoly, the Government monopoly, or any 
monopoly ? 

Mr. Da\^s. No. 

Mr. Hardy. Yon want your business run by your own wireless 
svstem ? 

Mr. Davis. Just so long as no one else can improve that Wireless 
system and give us the same service at less cost. 

Mr. Hardy. And the minute they did give you a service to suit you 
at a cost to suit you, you would lot them do so? 

Mr. Davis. Yes. 

Mr. Hardy. Now, if you are not willing to allow the Marconi Co. 
100 per cent monopoly, but insist upon breaking it up. do you think 
the naval service of the United States ought to be willing to put 
themselves in the hands of a monopoly? 

Mr. Davis. They are not doing that. What the naval service is 
doing is to make it illegal for us to engage in the radio business. 

Mr. Hardy. Are you in favor, then, of the naval service maintain- 
ing its own radio system for the naval ships? 

Mr. Davis. Certainlv. 



328 GOVERNMEKT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Hardy. Now, then, there is a question of economy. If the 
Navy has shore stations all around the United States, on which they 
must maintain the overhead charges and make infinite expenditpres 
in order to be sure they would not be hindered by a priv'ute monopoly, 
just as you maintained your system, do you not think it would be 
economic to let that great system of shore stations established, and 
necessarily established; for the benefit of the Navy be used for com- 
mercial business also ? 

Mr. Davis. But in that connection why make it illegal for an 
American citizen to engage in the same business ? 

Mr. Hardy. Would it not involve an immense and useless expendi^ 
ture to have two or three systems, all for the same class of business ? 

Mr. Davis. If there was not enough business for all systems to 
live and profit, they would go by the board. 

Mr. Hardy. Has not the result of all competitive conditions, or a 
great many of them, been for the big fish to eat up the little fish ? 

Mr. Davis. Not if the little ones were efficient and could hold up 
their end. Some small fishes have grown to be very large ones. 

Mr. Hardy. Has not that been the tendency in all these powerful, 
all-pervading combinations ? 

Mr. Davis. When the Government, by granting a patent, guaran- 
tees a powerful monopoly, then the little fellow has not much chance 
until that patent expires, but when it does expire he has just as much 
chance as anyone else. 

Mr. Hardy. But the big fellow, by fighting the patentee and hold- 
ing him in court until he surrenders, can get the advantage of all 
these patents, can he not ? 

Mr. Davis. That is not always the case. 

Mr. Hardy. But nearly always the case ? 

Mr. Davis. No ; these inventors can peddle their patents around to 
the highest bidder. 

Mr. Hardy. Yes; but suppose you have got practically only one 
bidder. You would have a few companies like this that would main- 
taine some wireless stations, but the vast public would depend upon 
the 100 per cent monopoly. 

Mr. Davis. Yes. 

Mr. Hardy. You say the public monopoly would destroy progress 
by destroying competition. Can you give a reason why the Govern- 
ment would be less lenient and encouraging toward inventions than 
a private monopoly would be? 

Mr. Davis. The Government is handicapped at times through lack 
of funds. Congress is not always as liberal to the Government as 
they have been during this war. And they are bound by laws and 
regulations, which the companies are not required to observe. 

Mr. Hardy. It is your judgment that a private monopoly would be 
more liberal toward this poor inventor than the Government would? 

Mr. Davis. It is the record of the past 20 years in this country. 
They have been more liberal. 

Mr. Hardy. Do you think anybody else would agree with you that 
that is the case ? 

Mr. Davis. I think Prof. Pupin will agree with me. 

Mr. Hardy. I think you will find some others here that will not. 

Mr. Davis. I think Prof. Kennelly will. I think Prof. Armstrong 
would if he were here. 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 329 

Mr. Hardy. You remarked a minute ago that nobody was in favor 
of this bill. Did you hear the gentleman who was here one even- 
ing, about the time we adjourned, who said he represented the ship 
interests, and so on ? 

Mr. Davis. I did; yes. 

Mr. Hardy. Did he not speak of quite a number of people in favor 
of this bill? 

Mr. Davis. He spoke of three steamship companies, I believe. 

Mr. Hardy. Three steamship companies? 

Mr. Davis. Three steamship companies; yes, sir. 

Mr. Hardy. Now, do you Imow anybody that is opposing this bill 
except the interests who would be interefered with — ^the Marconi 
Co.,- your company, and possibly some manufacturing companies? 

Mr. Davis. I know of a number of big steamship companies in 
New York who are opposed to it; I do not know whether they will 
come before this committee and oppose it, but I know they are 
opposed to it. 

Mr. Hardy. You heard this man the other day give the names of 
a number of private institutions that were in favor of it? 

Mr. Davis. I think I could talk to those private institutions for 16 
minutes and convince them they were wrong. 

Mr. Hardy. Oh, you mean to say they do not understand? 

Mr. Davis. They are in favor of it because they do not know what 
they are in favor of. 

Mr. Hardy. I suppose everybody that differs with you does not un- 
derstand this thing. However, I only want the facts. All I want to 
know is the exact fact, and I would like to hear somebody that is not 
interested on either side, instead of charging the Government with 
being biased and prejudiced 

Mr. Davis (interposing). I do not charge our Government with 
being biased. 

Mr. Hardy. You have not done so, but others have. 

Mr. Davis. I have pointed out that under our system of Govern- 
ment we can not have the same efficiency as in commercial life. 

Mr. Hardy. As a member of this committee, what I want to get at 
is the fact, and the great question that I am concerned with now is 
this : It looks to me like it has got to be either a private monopoly 
or a Government monopoly, and if it has got to l)e one or the other it 
is a question for us to decide. 

Mr. Davis. If you say it must come to a monopoly, then why do 
you have to legislate to make it a monopoly? Why do you want to 
make it illegal foi* an American citizen to engage in any legitimate 
business ? 

Mr. Hardy. That is a fair question, and I want to state to you 
frankly that my object is not to promote a monopoly if it can be 
avoided, but believing private monopoly would result in the absence 
of legislation of this kind. I prefer, with my present light, a Govern- 
ment monopoly to a private monopoly. 

Mr. Davis. Along that line, as I have said before, we have had the 
Food Administration and the Fuel Administration, and they have 
administered the whole country by regulation. 

Mr. Hardy. And I want to get out from under that just as quickly 
as I can. 



330 GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Davis. It does not make any difference whether you have a 
naval monopoly, a post-office monopoly, or a commercial monopoly; 
they must all be regulated by Congress. You can not let anvbodv 
run wild. 

Mr. Hardy. Do you think it would be a good idea to take the Post 
Office Department of this Government out from under the control of 
the Govermnent and lease it by contract to some great monopoly — 
would you establish a post office in the hands of private ownership ? 

Mr. Davis. I will'say this, that the service of the Post Office Depart- 
ment would probably be improved ; that postal employees would prob- 
ably be better paid; that you would have better post-office buildings: 
and you would receive more courteous treatment if you had a little 
competition. 

JMr. Hardy. Then, as a matter of fact, you think it has been a groat 
error to establish a Post Office Department ? 

Mr. Davis. I do not say it has been a gi'eat error to establish a 
Post Office Department, but it has been a great error to make it illegal 
for anybody to engage in that business. 

The Ctiairman. Do you think it is a great error to provide by law 
that the Government should have the monopoly of the postal business? 

Mr. Davis. I think the Postal Service would be improved by hav- 
ing a little competition. 

The Chairman. You do not think we ought to permit competi- 
tion in the Postal Service? 

Mr. Davis. I think it would put a little " pep '' in the Post Office 
Department. ^ 

Mr. Edmonds. They certainly need it. 

The Chairman. But monopoly is offensive to you per se, is it not? 

Mr. Davis. I did not say it is offensive. 

The CiiAiR^viAN. You had something to say about autocracy and 
Prussianism and all that. Now, what company has a monopol.v of 
the fruit business with Central America ? 

Mr. Davis. No one company lias it. 

The Chairman. The United Fruit Co. has, has it not? 

Mr. Davis. We most certainly have not. 

The Chairman. What competition have you? 

Mr. Davis. We had before the war 

The Chairman. No; I mean now — or before the war; that will be 
fair. 

Mr. Davis. Before the war we had the Hamburg- American Line, 
the Atlantic Fruit Co., the Vaccoro Bros. We had a dozen com- 
petitors. 

The Chairman. How many vessels of the Hamburg- American Line 
were engaged in the fruit business between Central America and this 
countr^^ 'i 

Mr. Davis. I can not state that offhand, but I can state the com- 
petition in terms of imports. The United Fruit Co. imports about 
one-half the bananas brought into this country. 

The Chairman. That is what I wanted to get at. 

Mr. Davis. The competitors brought in the other half. We go^ 
down in Central America and go out into these forests and jungles, 
build railroads, put up wireless stations, establish communication, 
build hospitals and schools, put in sewerage, waterworks, and light- 
ing plants, and bring civilization down there. Then we encourage 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO. COMMUNICATION. 331 

the natives and others to go out and open up their banana farms, and 
we take their products on an annual contract, and when the contracts 
are about to expire a competitor comes in and bids them up, and we 
como right along and bid against him. You can not have a more 
healthy condition of competition than that. 

The Chairman. Are youF ships common carriers ? Are they open 
to all those who may wish to engage in the fruit business between 
C^entral America and the United States, or are they used exclusively 
for your own business as far as fruit is concerned ? 

Mr. Davis. We do a general business. If we can not fill up a 
ship 

The Chairman (interposing). Do any of your competitors in the 
fruit business get space on your ships ? 

Mr. Davis. Probably if that ship was coming up empty, or only 
half full, I do not see any reason why they should not. The high seas 
are free. Our competitors could provide their own ships. You could 
hardly expect a farmer to harvesi: his neighbors' grain and leave his 
own to rot in the field. 

The CiiATinrAN. Well, have thev done it? 

Mr. Davis. I can not recall just now. You must bear in mind, Mr. 
Chairman, that in order to be successful in this fruit business in 
Central America you must own your ovrn ships. I don't care whether 
it is a fruit comj^any or anyone else. 

The CiiAimiAx. I only want to develop the facts, so we can draw 
our oAvn ccn^clusions. Now, take your wireless stations. Is it true 
or net that they are open to general commercial business between this 
countrv and Central America ? 

Mr. Davis. We are; wherever we are permitted to open them to 
public business they are open to public business, and we do handle 
public business. 

The Chairman. And where you are not permitted to open them for 
general public business 

Mr. Davis. I will go into that later, in executive session. 

The Chairman. If you do not care to mention it now, very well. 

Mr. Davis. There are certain conditions surrounding it that I do 
not feel like stating in an open hearing. 

The Chairman. But your ships and wireless stations are a part of 
your plant, or your business, in developing the fruit trade between 
Central America and the United States? 

Mr. Davis. Not fruit trade particularly ; in developing American 
commerce. 

The Chairman. Well, the fruit business is the particular business 
in which you are engaged? 

Mr. DaVis. It happens to be the bigges-t business, the biggest part of 

the business. 

The Chairman. What other business are you engaged in besides the 

fruit business ? 

Mr. Davis. Sugar, general freight business, the development of rail- 
roads in Central America and South America, the development of 
Central American business in general. We look into all of their 
resources there and develop them and put them on their feet and bring: 
their products into the United States. 

Mr. EowE. And carry our products there too ? 

9«770— 19— PT 3 7 



332 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Davis. And we carry American products into Central America, 
thousands of tons. 

Mr. KowE. How many stations have you down in the Gulf of 
Mexico and Caribbean Sea? 

Mr. Davis. Nine. 

Mr. EowE. And do you do a general commercial business with these 
wireless stations? 

Mr. Davis. As I say, wherever it has been permitted, wherever we 
have not been blocked through some governmental agency, we have 
done it. 

Mr. RowE. Do you do a ship-to-shore business with all the ships in 
that neighborhood ? 

Mr. IJavis. We take care of all shii)s in the Caribbean Sea. Our 
wireless is free to all of them. 

Mr. RowE. Even your opponents? 

Mr. Davis. Even our opponents. We handle our competitors' mes- 
sages just the same as if they were our own. In fact, I might add 
that we encourage our competitors to send their messages by our 
svstem. 

Mr. RowE. And you must have a station in the United States in 
order to get into communication with your offices in the different 
cities of the United States; is not that necessary? 

Mr. Davis. It is absolutely necessary. 

Mr. RowE.' Is that the main reason for maintaining a station at 
New Orleans? 

Mr. Davis. That is the sole reason for maintaining a station at 
New Orleans. 

Mr. RowE. Through that station then you are able to report to 
your New York office and other offices the movement of your ships? 

Mr. Davis. Yes, sir. 

Mr. RowE. Does the commercial part of your wireless business 
pav? 

Mr. Davis. It has been remunerative; yes, sir; excepting mes- 
sages from passengers on ships. And at a rate which was less than 
the (able rate between the United States and Central America we 
have built up a very nice wireless business, in addition to handling 
our own business. 

Mr. RowE. You have not told the committee this time about the 
difficulties that you experience where your stations have been estab- 
lished in the ship-to-shore business, about* the currents and so on — 
idiout the static. 

Mr. Davis. 1\'ell, two years have gone by. We have not overcome 
static yet. We still have it, but we are doing better than we did two 
years ago — much better. 

Mr. RowE. Is it more difficult to handle messiiges there than it is 
alonff the northern Atlantic coast? 

Mr. Davis. Much more difficult. The belt lying between the Tropic 
of Cancer and the Equator is a very difficult one for wireless to 
bridge on account of this static. 

Mr. Edmonds I am sorrv my friend from Texas has left the room, 
lie seems to be obsessed with the idea that there is going to be a 100 
]iev cent monopoly in wireless. That might be true with respect to 
(he high-power stations, might it not? 



GOVEBNMENT CONTROL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 333 

Mr. Davis. As long as the Marconi Co. gives the best service in 
the world and the cheapest service in the world, perhaps it might. 

Mr. Edmonds. But would it be true in ordinary commercial busi- 
ness ? If the Delaware & Lackawanna Railroad wanted to establish 
wireless along their lines, would the Marconi Co. monopolize that ? 

Mr. Davis. Thev could not. 

Mr. Edmonds. Do they monopolize the Wanamaker establishment 
in Philadelphia ? 

Mr. Davis. Not that I know of. I do not know that they use it. 

Mr. Edmonds. If these cotton factories that Judge Saunders was 
speaking about should put up wireless, could they monopolize that? 

Mr. Davis. They could not. 

Mr. Edmonds. Have they monopolized you? 

Mr. Davis. No, sir. 

Mr. Edmonds. There is no such thing as a monopoly in wireless, 
and no possibility of it ? 

Mr. Davis. There is no possibility of a monopoly in radio unless 
you legislate to make it a monopoly. The only monopoly that can 
exist in radio is by virtue of this bill and our patent law. We all 
want the patentee or inventor to get all that is coming to him. He 
has the monopoly for 17 years; that is the law. After 17 years any- 
body can go out and engage in it, but if you pass this bill they can 
not. 

Mr. Edmonds. No; it is just going to tie it up and make a 
monopoly ? 

Mr. Davis. Make a monopoly ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Edmonds. But most of these patents are running out now? 

Mr. Davis. They expire in a very short time. 

Mr. Edmonds. And it is going to be a case of service entirely? 

Mr. Davis. Service will always be the governing factor in any 
business; yes. 

Mr. Edmonds. Therefore, my friend's fear of the 100 per cent mo- 
nopoly that Mr. Nally hoped for, but probably did not see himself 
when he spoke of it, is absolutely impossible ? 

Mr. Davis. Absolutely. 

The Chairman. That might be true if it were not for the fact that 
there are monopolies in control without patents. 

Mr. Davis. Then they are monopolies by virtue of superior service. 

The Chairman. By power of money and combination, by which 
they can suppress competition. If you do not know of that, you 
are not informed. 

Mr. Edmonds. The gentleman from Texas spoke of Mr. Schwab. 
He is the greatest trust buster in the country; he has established the 
greatest opposition to the biggest trust in the country — ^the United 
Stateg Steel Corporation. 

The Chairman. When ? 

Mr. Edmonds. Why, the Bethlehem Steel Co. is the greatest oppo- 
sition the United States Steel Corj^oration has. 

The Chairman. That is all a joke. [Laughter.] You can not 
tell that to an intelligent audience. I am sorry we can not get the 
gentleman's smile in the record to show that he does not believe it 
Himself. 

Mr. Greene. I would like to ask this gentleman a question, al- 
though I do not know that it relates to this particular controversy. 



334 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

The United Fruit Co. had all its ships built in foreign countries. 
They did not have any built in America ? 

Mr. Davis. All of the present ships were built abroad ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Greene. And had foreign officers on them ? 

Mr. Davis. Up to the time of the President's proclamation. 

Mr. Greene. Now, let us understand very plainly why you did 
that ; why you did not come under the American flag and Ainerican 
regulations. 

Mr. Davis. We came under them just as soon as we were permitted 
to do so. 

Mr. Greene. I know you undertook to come in earlier. 

Mr. Davis. We made several attempts. 

Mr. Greene. I tried to prevent you from doing so, because I 
thought it was unjust, after having built your vessels abroad. Mr. 
Humphrey, of Washington, who was a very strong man on this com- 
mittee, favored it, but this committee decided not to let you do it. 
The point that I am making is that you could build your vessels 
cheaper abroad than you could build them here. You could employ 
men on them under better regu hit ions as long as they were under a 
foreign ilag than you could under the American flag. 

Mr. Davis. You must understand this, that in developing tliis 
Central American and South American trade, in which we were the 
pioneers, we were in competition with England, Germany, and Nor- 
way ; w^e had to have ships and men who could compete. We could 
not have entered that business and competed with those countries 
and developed our business as we have if we had been under the 
iVmerican flag. 

Mr. Greene. That is it. Now, in developing a great merchant ina- 
rine, which we talked so much about, we have spent enormous sums ; 
we have put them under so many regulations and bound them up so 
tight that when we undertake to go out and capture the world's 
trade we have got to do something or other to get a chance to capture 
it. We are not going to capture it by wind or by whistling in this 
committee. We have to provide something to meet the difference 
between the cost of vessels abroad and the cost of manning the ves- 
sels abroad and in this country ; we have got to go against Japanese 
competition and every other kind of competition. We have got to 
find some kind of method to meet that competition after spending 
this vast sum of $4,000,000,000, enough to build 10 Panama Canals. 
We have spent or appropriated for the Shipping Board $4,000,000,000 
in money, and where are we going to be when we undertake to go 
out and meet that situation ? 

Mr. Bankhead. Do I understand that to be intended as a question? 

Mr. Greene. Yes; that is a question. I would like to know where 
we are going to be when we go out to meet that situation. 

Mr. Davis. We are not gomg to be any place if we have legislation 
such as this, which is going to put a damper on our efforts and is 
going to wreck of first-line trenches — our means of communication. 
We can not go out and compete if you are going to do that. 

Mr. Greene. And this is an additional handicap on American 
enterprise ? 

Mr. Davis. It is one of the most serious handicaps, not to be able to 
have your medium of communication in such shape that you can reg- 
ulate it. 



OOVERNMENT CONTKOL OF RADIO COMMUNIOATIOK. 335 

Mr. Greene. It is going to be another serious handicap added to 
the many handicaps that you find in competing for foreign trade, 
which we claim we are trying to foster. That is what I wanted to 
get after. I am correct in that, am I ? 

Mr. Davis. You are correct; yes, sir. It is going to be a very seri- 
ous handicap to that development. 

The Chairman. Mr. Davis, the United Fruit vessels were admitted 
to American registry under the ship registry act of August 8, 1914, 
were they not ? 

Mr. Davis. I believe that is correct ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. That was a bill I introduced, which passed the 
House under a suspension of the rules, and for which I think my 
friend from Massachusetts voted. 

Mr. Greene. Oh, yes; in time of war, or prospective war; I fore- 
saw war myself in 1914. I voted for a great many things after tlie 
war broke out in Europe. 

The Chairman. That was the wgfr in Europe. We were not in 
then. 

Mr. Greene. I understand that, but we ought to have been in it 
very early. 

The Chairman. I know we ought to have been in it from the be- 
ginning, but that is aside from this question. 

Mr. Greene. I foresaw that trouble was coming, and I voted for a 
great many things that I would not have voted for under ordinary 
circumstances. I said so on the floor and I say so now. I voted in 
the line of patriotism. 

The Chairman. I just thought you had forgotten that matter. 
[Laughter.] 

Mr. Gre:^ne. Not a bit. I take bitter medicine sometimes ; and al- 
though I never took a glass of whisky in my life, if I needed it to 
preserve my life I would take it. 

Mr. Davis. I have finished, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Nally. Mr. Chairman, may I correct one mistake? Mr. 
Davis said the Marconi Co. had entered into a contract with the Navy 
not to build any more coast stations. That is a mistake ; we did not 
enter into such a contract. We did, naturally, agree not to build sta- 
tions that would interefere with the stations we had just sold ; I think 
it would be unethical to do otherwise; but we are still free to build 
stations. 

Mr. Davis. I beg your pardon, Mr. Nally; I am glad to have my 
remarks in that regard amended. But there is this to be said : Mr. 
Nally's system covers nearly the entire coast, and if they are not ^o- 
ing to erect stations which would compete for the business which 
would ordinarily go through these stations under control of the 
Navy, it follows they have, as a practical matter, made an agreement 
not to build any more coast stations. 

(The committee thereupon proceeded, in executive session, to hear 
the statement of Mr. Walter S. Penfield, and at 1 o'clock p. m. took a 
recess until 2 o'clock p. m.) 



336 GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

AFTER RECESS. 

The committee reassembled at the expiration of the recess. 

STATEMENT OF MK. SAMUEL E. DARBY, NEW YOEK CITY, REP- 
RESENTING THE DE FOREST RADIO TELEPHONE & TELEGRAPH 
CO., OF NEW YORK. . 

Mr. Darby. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, my 
name is Samuel E. Darby, of New York. For the past 25 years I 
have been actively and continuously engaged in the practice of patent 
law. Prior to entering that profession I was for six or seven years 
an assistant examiner in the United States Patent Office. I am here 
to represent the De Forest Radio Telephone & Telegraph Co., of New 
York. 

That company does not own nor operate radio stations; it is not 
interested or engaged in the commercial work of sending or receiving 
messages. It is a manufacturer of radio apparatus and confines itself 
exclusively to the manufacture and sale of radio apparatus under 
patents which it owns and has developed. 

The company owns 265 patents and applications for patents. Of 
that number 100 have been contributed by the inventions of Dr. Lee 
De Forest. 1 regret exceedingly that Dr. De Forest is unable to pre- 
sent his views in connection with this matter. He is at present in 
Europe in connection with radio matters and therefore the responsi- 
bility of representing to a small extent the interests of that company 
devolves upon me. 

Dr. De Forest, I may say, is one of the pioneer American inventors 
in the radio ai't, and in his absence I might perhaps say that he 
began his researches into the radio art while a student at Yale Uni- 
versity. He continued his research and study of the art as a student 
of Armour Institute of Chicago, and it was while he was a student 
at Armour Institute in 1900 that he made his first invention in the 
radio art. 

He has continued from that time to the present devoting his entire 
time and energy and genius to the advancement and to the improve- 
ment of the radio art, and, as I have said, has applied for and pro- 
cured 100 patents for inventions which he made — ^many of them he 
has constructed and installed with his own hands. 

I do not believe I can be challenged when I say that there is no 
man in this country, no American, who has done more in the practi- 
cal work of developing the radio art than has Dr. Lee De Forest. 
For his achievements he enjoys the honorary degree of doctor. 

The De Forest apparatus, especially, the audion detector and am- 
plifier which has been referred to particularly in these hearings, is 
now standard wireless equipment in our own Navy as well as in the 
principal navies of the world. I might say, further, that it was the 
De Forest audion amplifier which made possible transoceanic radio 
communication. The audion amplifier has also made possible trans- 
continental-wire telephony. The American Telegraph & Telephone 
Co. is operating to-day under a license under the De Forest patents. 

I think, Mr. Chairman, that it has been made perfectly clear in 
these hearings that if this bill is enacted into law it will mean 
Government monopoly of the entire radio art. I think it has been 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 337 

made equally clear that if this bill is not enacted into law it will 
mean Marconi monopoly of the radio art. Mr. Nally has told us 
that the Marconi Co. to-day controls 90 per cent of the business, and 
they hope to make that practically 100 per cent. 

Mr. Nally. Ship-to-shore business. 

Mr. Darby. Therefore I say that the manufacturer, the little 
fellow who is engaged solely in the manufacture and supply and sale 
of radio apparatus, is confronted with the two horns of a dilemma. 
On the one hand he .is confronted with the possibility of being 
hoisted on the horn of Marconi monopoly, and on the other hand, 
the horn of Government monopoly of this art. It is a question 
which is confronting the De Forest Co., and, as I conceive it, every 
company engaged, as it is, in a modest way in trying to live and to 
manufacture. The condition they are confronting to-day is whether 
they can survive the monopoly of the Marconi Co. on the one hand 
or survive the monopoly of the Government on the other hand. 

For my part, speaking in behalf of the De Forest Co., I am free 
to saj', notwithstanding the fact that it is between the devil of pri- 
vate monopoly on the one hand and the deep sea of the Navy on 
the other, that if the choice is left to my advice, we will accept the 
(xovernment. monopoly every time. I will explain the reason for 
that. 

We have been told of some of the devices to which private mo- 
nopoly will resort in maintaining its monopoly. They tell us of 
their scheme of lease contracts for their apparatus. The Marconi 
Co,, if this bill is not enacted, will control the shore stations — and 
there must be shore stations or else there can be no radio apparatus 
or use made of it. The Marconi Co. manufactures its own appa- 
ratus. It leases its apparatus ; it does not sell it. 

If I recall it correctly, as to the figures given on lease prices, Mr. 
Humphreys of this committee figured out that it was a losing propo- 
sition to the Marconi Co. to lease their apparatus at $1,000 a year 
with an average life of five years instead of selling it outright at 
$8,300 per set. Nevertheless, the Marconi Co. tell us they find it 
more profitable to lease than to sell their apparatus outright. They 
must have a verv ffood and verv substantial reason, and that reason 
we find, of course, in private profit. 

But it is not moroly the leasing of this apparatus that concerns the 
Marconi Co. in its monopoly, but under the guise of a lease of 
property under patent rights they are endeavoring to extend and ex- 
j)and the scope of those rights, apparently secured by patents, but 
going fai- beyond the limits or the bounds of proper beneficent patent 
monopoly and ownership. 

Under the lease svstem. for example, thev tell us that thev also 
insist upon having their own o]:)erators employed. They tell us they 
insist upon su])plying their own repair paints, their own extras, 
articles that are not covered by patents, which ought to he open to 
the manufacturers of the country to supply. 

It is such prjiv tices as the lease contract system that have brought 
the United Shot- Machinery Co., for example, into disrepute and 
made it an object of attack by the Government, because they sought 
to control not only their patent properties but also devices and ap- 
paratus which were not covered by their patents, under the guise of 
l^atent protection. 



338 GOVERXMEXT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

In the .saiiie way the Dick Co. attempted, under the guise of patent 
protection for theii- iieostyle or duplicator, to control Uie sale of ink, 
paper, and other common conunodities which anyone could supply 
and should have an op]:)ortunity to supply. 

It was under that same system of extension of patent rights that 
the Victor Talking Machine Co. attempted to control the manufac- 
ture and sale of the record disks for use with their patented appa- 
ratus. Tender that same guise the Victor Talking Machine Co. 
attempted to control the resale price of tli6ir patented machinas, 
until they were stopped by the Supreme Court. 

That is one of the devices. Mr. Chairman, tliat is resort^ to in 
the case of pri\ate monopoly and is being resorted to in the case 
of the Marconi monopoly. 

I speak rather feelingly on this, because the De Forest Co. has 
been made a victim of the methods of the Marconi Co. There has 
been practically continuous litigation with the Marconi Co. on pat- 
ent rights, and the Marconi Co. has not hesitated to attempt to take 
away from the factory of the De Forest Co. and to prostitute them, 
their skilled employees. That is another device of private, ob- 
noxious monopoly, not included within the beneficent monopoly of 
patent protection. 

They have oppressed not only the De Forest Co. but other com- 
panies, other individuals, who have dared to undertake to manu- 
facture and sell wireless apparatus of any kind. Whether it was 
an infringing apparatus or not, under the guise of patent protection, 
they have attempted to suppress it and to maintain their grasp ana 
control on this radio art. 

Judge Hardy remarked the other day that there were a thousand 
and one ways in which a rich and powerful corporation could grind 
down opposition or competition. Whether the Marconi Co. has 
overlooked any of those I do not know [laughter], but I do know that 
they have exerted every influence that was possible to run the De 
Foiest Co. out of business. And it has been in the face of such 
tremendous difficulties as that that the De Forest Co. has been able 
to continue in business and has supplied its absolutely necessary 
apparatus for the use of our Government and other governments in 
this audion detector and amplifier, and other devices. 

Therefore, I say that if the choice is left as between the private 
monopoly of the Marconi Co. on the one hand and the Government 
monopoly on the other, there is no question where the interest — ^the 
material, substantial interest — of manufacturers lies. It is with the 
Government and in favor of this proposed bill. 

But let us exauiine the other side. There is another side; that is 
the side of Xavv control or Government control. Prior to 1910, 
whenever the Government saw .fit to use a patented device or appa- 
ratus without the license or consent of the patent owner, there was 
no redress for the patent owner. That was true, because patent in- 
fringement is a tort^ and the Government had never consented to be 
sued in tort. There was one way in which a patent owner could, 
prior to 1910, enforce his rights against the Government under his 
patent, and that was where a contract, either express or implied, be- 
tween the patent owner and the Government had been violated. On 
the strength of that violation of a contract the patent owner had a 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 339 

right to go into the Court of Claims and sue the Government for its 
appropriation. 

The Congress recognized the injustice of that situation and en- 
acted the law of June 25, 1910, which is entitled "An act to further 
extend the protection afforded to patent owners of the United States." 
Under its provisions, whenever the Government used a patented in- 
vention without the license of the patent owner, he had the right 
of action in the Court of Claims for that infringing use. 

That, however, limited the right of action against the Government 
to the use of the invention. A patent secures to the patentee not only 
the exclusive right to the use of the invention but also the exclusive 
right to make and to sell the patented apparatus. It was thought 
by many in the profession and some of the courts, as I will show, that 
the act of June 25, 1910, carried with it an implied license in the Gov- 
ernment to use any patented invention : and having the lawful right 
as an implied licensee imder any patent, subject of course to recourse 
to the Court of Claims for the infringement, it was not, of course, 
incinnbent upon the Government to manufacture by its employees in 
its own shops the patented apparatus it wanted to use. Being an im- 
plied licensee, it had the right to employ anyone else outside the Gov- 
ernment to supply or make the apparatus for it. 

A case arose in the southern district of New York, and, by a curi- 
ous coincidence, it was a case involving radio apparatus. Still fur- 
ther, curiously, we find the Marconi Co. complainant in that action. 
The case that arose was that of Mr. Simoh, who contracted w4th the 
Navy Department to build certain wireless apparatus for the Navy 
Department. The department prepared the specifications, what it 
wanted, and called upon Mr. Simon to construct that apparatus for 
it. The Marconi Co. sued Mr. Simon, with a view to collecting from 
him the profits that he might make in filling that contract, and, in 
addition, sought to enjoin Mr. Simon from making that apparatus or 
other apparatus, saying that they had patent rights covering that 
apparatus. 

The defense in that action was that Mr. Simon was merely acting 
as an agent for the Government. The Government had prepared 
the specifications and plans for the apparatus it wanted to use and 
had employed Mr. Simon to construct that apparatus. The United 
States District Court for the Southern District of New York accepted 
that view of it, and said that under the act of 1910 the remedv was 
a suit against the Government for the use of the apparatus, and as 
the (jovernment was an implied licensee it had the right to have the 
apparatus made for it by whomsoever it pleased. On appeal to the 
Court of Appeals for the Second District the decision of the lower 
court was affirmed. The case was then carried to the Supreme Court. 

Meanwhile the Cramp Shipbuilding Co. undertook to build some 
destroyers for the Navy under specifications drawn up by the Navy 
Department and to install on those destroyers certain turbine engines. 
Those engines were claimed by the Curtis Turbine Co. to infringe its 
patents. A suit was brought bv the turbine company against the 
Cramp company. As a result oi that litigation, the turbine ])atents 
were sustained as valid, and the turbines installed in these destroyers 
were held to infringe. 

The matter was referred to a special master to take an account of 
the profits made by the Cramp company in filling that order. At the 



340 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

hearing before the master it was attempted to exclude certain of those 
destroyers from the accounting proceedings on the ground that the 
contract for their construction was not made or entered into until 
after the act of 1910. Practically the same defense was made there, 
that the Government was an implied licensee under the act of 1910 
and had a right to have the Cramp company supply these engines for 
it. The master refused to accept that view. • • 

The matter was taken to the District Court for the Eastern Dis- 
trict of Pennsylvania, and the master was overruled on the authority 
of the Simon case. 

The matter was then taken to the Circuit Court of Appeals for the 
Third Circuit, and that court, learning that the Simon case w^as in 
the Supreme Court, deferred a decision on the point, and for the 
sake of the record affirmed the district court. Whereupon the Cramp 
case was taken to the Supreme Court. Those two cases were heard 
and decided to gether. They are repoiied in 246 U. S., page 28 and 
page 48. 

The Supreme Court held in those cases that the act of 1910 did 
not give to the {Ttivernment the right to have apparatus made for it 
by outside parties without the outside parties accounting to the 
patent owners for the profits made in building that apparatus, there- 
by in effect reversing the Circuit Court of Appeals for the Second 
Circuit and the District Court for the Eastern District of Penn- 
sylvania. 

Mr. HuMPiiKEYs. May I interrupt you there ? Did the court hold 
that the outside manufacturer could manufacture it? 

Mr. Dakby. Could not monufacture it. 

Mr. Humphreys. You said they could not manufacture it without 
accounting for the profits they nuide? 

Mr. Darby. Yes. 

Mr. Humphreys. Was that the measure of damages, the profits 
that the outside manufacturer made? 

Mr. Darby. That was the measui'e of damages: yos, sir. It is 
usually the measure of d^iniages in patent infringement litigation. 

Mr. Hi'MPiiREYs. If the outside manufacturer sells it at a very 
uiuch smaller profit than the patentee would is the rule still the 
same ? 

Mr. Darby. The only uieasure of damages is the profit he niade. 
But that is a very small part of the substantial benefits obtained by 
the litigation. The most important part was the injunction restrain- 
ing them from carrying on the infringement, and the Supreme Court 
held in effect that there was a right of injunction against the con- 
tractors, the Cramp Co., in the one case, and Mr. Simon in the other, 
except that in the Simon case another question came in involving 
what is known as contributory infringement, which was practically 
the turning point in the Simon case in the Supreme Court. 

With that sitiuation the war came on. Then it became necessarv 
for the Government to acquire large quantities of apparatus to en- 
able it to successfully prosecute the w^ar in all directions, not alone 
in radio but in other arts, in the automobile art, in the aircraft art, 
in the motor construction art — in all directions the Government re- 
quired enormous quantities of materials and apparatus and devices 
of all kinds. 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 341 

In the contracts made — and this has been the practice, I under- 
stand, for a good many years; it was referred to, I think, by Com- 
mander Hooper — in the contracts made by the Government with the 
manufacturers a clause was inserted requiring the manufacturer to 
hold the Government harmless from patent infringement litigation. 
With the large quantities of apparatus required by the Government 
for the war it was impossible for the patent ownei's themselves to 
supply that apparatus to meet all the requirements of the Govern- 
ment; they had to get other manufacturers here, there, and every- 
where to make and supply the necessary apparatus for the war. But 
these outside manufacturers were confronted with this situation 
created by the decisions of the Supreme Court, that in case they did 
manufacture for the Government patented apparatus they were 
liable to be sued for the profits they made on that manufacture, and 
in addition to pay the costs of that litigation ; with the further addi- 
tion — which is statutory — that the trial court in a patent infringe- 
ment litigation has the authority and power to increase damages 
threefold. 

Whereupon the manufacturers of the country were confronted 
with that situation, and they hesitated as between their patriotic 
duty on the one hand to supply everything that was necessary for 
the Government to carry on the war and absolute ruin on the other 
if they had to account for the profits they made on the apparatus 
thev constructed for the Government. 

It was under that exigency that appeal was made to the Govern- 
ment. It was made in the case of the De Forest Co., because when 
the war was declared the De Forest Co. placed its staff at the dis- 
posal of the Government ; it was operated for 24 hours a day, night 
and dAy continuously, to the highest tension and strain, to supply 
apparatus to the Government and only to the Government during 
that period. 

It was necessary for those who were operating under those con- 
tiacts to apply to the heads of the departments with which they 
were doing business for relief, and the departments were not slow 
to grant that relief. In some individual cases the indemnity clause 
in the contracts was canceled. In other individual cases — and that 
was the experience of the De Forest Co. — the Navy Department 
assumed sole responsibility for anv infringement action that might 
be instituted. That enabled the 6overnment to get the apparatus 
that it needed. 

Then, in the act making appropriations for the Navy for the year 
1919, ending June 80 next, the act of 1910 was amended. The pur- 
l)ort of that amendment was that whenever the Government used a 
patented invention without the license or consent of the patent 
owner, or whenever such apparatus was manufactured by the Gov- 
ermnent or manufactured for the (xovernment, then the entire 
remedy, the entire compensation, was to be recoverable by action 
against the Government in the Court of Claims. 

You will note the expansion of the act of 1910. The act of 1910 
ap]ilied only to the use by the Government. This amendment, which 
is now the law of the land, increased that so as to apply to apparatus 
made by the Government or made for the Government. That is the 
law under which we are operating now, so that to-day, whether this 
bill passes or not, if the Government wants to use any patented 



842 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

apparatus it can do so and have it made for it by whomsoever it 
pleases, and it will assume the full burden through action in the 
Court of Claims for infringement. 

Now, if this bill passes and becomes a law the manufacturers of 
the country are confronted with that situation. It is entirely possible 
for the Navy Department then to have made for it any apparatus, 
without regard to the patent ownership of anyone, leaving tlie patent 
owner to his recourse by suit in the Court of Claims. And that, I 
assure you, Mr. Chairman, as the result of my own personal and 
professional experiencie in that court, is but a shadow of right. 

Mr. Humphreys. Could the patentee in such circumstances as you 
have related go into the court to hecure an injunction against the 
manufacturer who had contracted with the Na^^? 

Mr. Darby. No, sir ; not under the amendment to the act of 1910. 

Mr. Humphreys. He can continue manufacturing? 

Mr. Darby. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Humphreys. I^t me ask you this further question. See if I 
get this right. Suppose there is some apparatus the Navy wants; for 
instance, one of these receiver sets. There are varioiis parts of that, 
I assume, that have been patented at different times; A will have 
one patent, B another, and C another. Suppose the Navy, preferring 
one or the other of those parts, would provide in their contract that 
this receiving set shall have this particular part in it, and the manu- 
facturer agrees to make the whole thing, including that part. He 
makes the complete receiver at a reasonable profit, including in that 
the cost of this patented item, which he puts m at actual cost. What 
becomes of the patentee then and his rights? There has been no 
profit made on that. 

Mr. Darby. The courts have passed on that question in this way. 
If the profits made on a patented feature of an entire structure can 
be segregated from the profits made on the construction of the entire 
article, men those profits will measure. 

Mr. Humphreys. Suppose there was no profit? 

Mr. Darby. If there was no profit then the measure of damages 
would be what profit the patent owner would have made if he had 
supplied it. Those are well established principles of the patent law 
which govern, and fairly equitably, recovery for patent infringe- 
ment. 

So I say, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, that if this bill goes into 
effect the small manufacturer will be liable to have the Navy De- 
partment manufacture any apparatus it pleases, leaving only the 
right of suit in the Court of Claims to recover for that infringement. 
But there has never been within the range of my experience— and I 
speak also for the De Forest Badio Co. — any disposition on the part 
of the Navy Department not to recognize fairly and equitably the 
rights of patent owners. I say that advisedly, because I have been 
thrown in contact with them professionally for several years. There 
has never been any disposition, so far as it has come under my ob- 
servation, for the Navy officials and naval officers not to deal fairlv 
with patent owners. There was never any disposition to arbitrarily 
take a man's invention without giving him an opportunity. I do 
not believe that, if given the authority they ask under this bill, that 
would develop any serious obstacle. 

Mr. Humphreys. You mean the opportunity to make it himself? 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 343 

Mr. Darby. Yes. I do not think that the Navy Department con- 
templates manufacturing or is as well equipped to manufacture the 
apparatus as are those who have been engaged in manufacturing 
that apparatus from the beginning. I think they realize that and 
recognize it, and therefore they go out in the market and purchase it. 

On the other hand, that is a difficulty that the manufacturers con- 
front, and it as a very serious situation. It affects them profoundly. 
If the Navy Department has the right to have patented apparatus 
made for it by whomsoever it pleases without regard to patent own- 
ers, then it is going unquestionably to work a tremendous hardship 
on the little manufacturer. 

A suggestion was made to this committee that a board has been 
appointed in the department to handle this patent situation, and 
that they are at work on it. My suggestion would be to give such a 
board as that statutory authority. Write such a board as that, or 
the one suggested by Mr. Nally, i^to this bill ; make it an authorita- 
tive board, with power enough to straighten out matters affecting 
patent rights and patent owners, and giving it other powers — powers 
such as suggested by Mr. Nally, for example, of determining the 
practical working wave lengths under which this apparatus might 
be operated, whether by the amateur, the ship-to-coast stations, or 
the high-power stations. That would be my practical suggestion. 

But one thing is certain : If the Govermnent should take over this 
radio business and it becomes a Government monopoly — ^just as it 
has, for example, taken over the patents of the Poulsen system and 
the Federal Telegraph Co. — the Government would not be inter- 
ested in enforcing any of its patent rights against any manufac- 
turers throughout the country and the manufacturers then would 
spring up, in my judgment, all over the country, manufacturing this 
patented apparatus, because the Government would control the pat- 
ents and the Government then would get the benefit of the very best 
apparatus, because it would be a case of the survival of the fittest. 
A keen business competition would arise among the manufacturers to 
supply the best quality of apparatus, and that is what the Govern- 
ment wants. 

Now, as to the development, the future development of the art, 
whether it shall be through private monopoly, or I should say Mar- 
coni monopoly, or Government monopoly, I think it is beyond qiies- 
tion that there would be greater progress made and greater ad- 
vancement in this wonderful art if the Government had control than 
there woujd be if the Marconi Co. had control. I base that state- 
ment on this fact: Notwithstanding the fact that the De Forest 
audion detector and amplifier is standard equipment and the most 
important and up-to-date equipment for the receiving apparatus, 
the Marconi Co. has never adopted or used it except by infringement. 
It had the right to go to the De Forest Co. and purchase it, but it 
did not do so. Instead, it was not slow to undertake to manufacture 
it for itself in defiance of the De Forest patents, and would be manu- 
facturing and using it to-day if it were not for an injunction. The 
De Forest Co. had to bring suit to enforce its rights. 

And there is one point I would like to answer, suggested by ex- 
Attorney General Griggs. He told this committee, as illustrative of 
the attitude, as he expr ssed it. as I recall, of the Navy Department 
toward the Marconi Co. — and there were almost tears in his voice; 



344 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

he was certainly trembling with suppressed emotion or virtuous in- 
digation when he said it^ — that even the Navy Department ^tempted 
to interfere with litigation which the Marconi Co. was carrying 
on against infringers and referred to a case out in California. 

I do not know anything about that, but I do know about the case 
he mentioned of the De Forest Co. It is true that there was litiga- 
tion pending between the Marconi Co. and the De Forest Co. at the 
time tve entered the war. When we entered the war the De Forest 
Co., as I say, started in immediately to devote its entire time, night 
and day, to the manufacture of apparatus for the Government, for 
the Government's use, for the successful prosecution of the war, 
working under high tension; and yet the Marconi Co. was attempt- 
ing during the period of the war to suppress the De Forest Co., to 
press that litigation, by taking aw^ay from the supervision of the 
manufacturing end of it the experts — Dr. De Forest and his staflF 
of engineers^ — who were absolutely necessary as witnesses in that 
litigation. 

We either had to embarrass the Government by failing to supply 
it with the necessary apparatus that it required, or else let the litiga- 
tion go by default. Under those circumstances, and in behalf of the 
De Forest Co., I appealed to the Navy Department for assistance, 
for pressure to be brought to hold back the Marconi Co. from press- 
ing that litigation. So when Mr. Griggs complains that that was 
illustrative of the attitude of the Navy Department he is unjust. 
If there is any fault to be found he can find it with me, at least to 
that extent. 

And within the past two weeks, while the signatures to the armis- 
tice are hardly dry, the Marconi Co.'s attorneys have gone into court 
there in New York and reinstated that litigation, which had been 
suspended for the duration of the war. And notwithstanding the 
fact they knew that Dr. De Forest was out of the country and abso- 
lutely necessary to the defense of the suit, they pressed the court 
for an immediate trial of that case. That, I submit, is another one 
of the thousand and one ways that a rich and powerful corporation 
can use that power under the guise of patent protection, to embar- 
rass, to harass, and to discourage commercial business enterprises. 
I should think that, instead of being virtuously indignant at the 
Navy Department, the Marconi Co. should han^ its head in shame 
to confess that when the Government needed this apparatus it was 
engaged in embarrassing the Government in getting it. 

I have one further practical suggestion to make, Mr. Ciiairman. 
As I have said, in view of the fact that these small manufacturers 
are confronted with the prospect of being hoisted on the horn of the 
dilemma of Government monopoly or crucified on the horn of the 
Marconi monopoly I think it would be necessary to protect the 
interests of those manufacturers like the De Forest Co. and others 
situated like them. Their whole business is devoted to the manu- 
facture of this apparatus. They would have only one purchaser 
for their apparatus in either case whether it was the Government or 
the Marconi Co. Therefore other enterprises should be included in 
this bill under the definition that is given of radio stations. When 
I first read the bill I thought that was its purpose. The term 
" radio station " means " any place, vessel, or vehicle containing 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 345 

apparatus used or capable of being used for transmitting or receiv- 
ing signals." A place where apparatus is manufactured and tested 
out is certainly a place containing apparatus used or capable of 
being used for radio purposes. When I read that definition of a 
radio station I gained the distinct impression that it included also 
manufacturers. At this hearing, however, as I understand, Capt. 
Todd stated most emphatically that that was not the purpose nor the 
intent of the bill. My suggestion, therefore, is to include in the 
definition of a radio station " also any factory or business enterprise 
engaged exclusively in the manufacture of such apparatus." 

Then, in section 8, I think it is 

Mr. Humphreys. Would you suggest that as an addition? 

Mr. Darby. As an addition, just write that on after the word 
" signals," in line 9. 

Mr. Humphreys. Will you again read your suggestion ? 

Mr. Darby. "And any factory or business enterprise engaged ex- 
clusively in such enterprise." 

Mr. Hardy. Would you not be in the position of nullifying your 
amendment by the use of the word " exclusive "? Because any other 
little business would prevent it being used. 

Mr. Darby. I had in mind this, if tlie chairman please: The 
General Electric Co., for example, is engaged in making radio 
apparatus for the Government, but it is not engaged exclusively in 
making radio apparatus, and there would certainly be no object to 
the Government taking over the entire General Electric Co. just 
because of the small side issue it has of radio. That is why I suggest 
that word "exclusively" — icngaged exclusively in the manufacture. 

Mr. Hardy. It occurs to me that if a factory wanted to be taken 
they would have nothing else to manufacture, and if they did not 
want to be taken they would put in a little something else. 

Mr. Darby. That would mean that the business enterprise, so far 
as it related to wireless, would be taken over, and it would leave 
the individuals free to embark in some other business enterprise, 
but they would be taken over and would be compensated as to part 
of the property referred to in this section 8 of the bill. 

I wanted to say, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen 

Mr. Humphreys. Your idea is that in the event the bill became 
a law it would embark the Navy Department not only in the opera- 
tion of radio communication but also in the manufacture of all 
apparatus necessary. 

Mr. Darby. That would probably result if the Navy, after tak- 
ing it over, cared to carry on that manufacturing operation. But 
what I had in mind was not so much the Navy Department, as they 
are to take care of the present manufacturer, who would be at the 
mercy of monopoly. 

Mr. Humphreys. But the bill says that the President shall requisi- 
tion and take permanent possession of radio stations. 

Mr. Darby. I do not know that that would be such a bad thing 
for the Navy Department, because thereby it would acquire prop- 
erties which have been built up and improved for manufacturing 
the very apparatus that they wanted to use. They would be getting 
the apparalus and equipment for doing that. I do not think that it 
would De the policy of the department to engage in manufacture, but 



346 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

at least they would have the facilities for doing it, and they could 
lease the factory part of it out. and the machinery part out, and em- 
pl( y others to make it for them. 

Mr. Humphreys. It would prevent anybody else in the country 
engaging in that enterprise^ 

Mr. Darby. Xo ; I do not think so. 

Mr. Humphreys. But if he engages in the enterprise of manufac- 
turing radio apparatus he immediately becomes a radio station, and 
thereupon is taken over at once by the Government ? 

Mr. Darby. Perhaps it might be further improved by saying " any 
established business devoted exclusively to the manufacture of wire- 
less." 

Mr. Hu^iPiiREYs. I do not know w^hat that Would mean. Is there 
a legal definition of "established business"? 

Mr. Darby. I think so. I think the legal definition of that is 
one that has already been created and built up. 

Mr. Humphreys. Then, ns socn as a man undertook to establish 
a manufacturing plant for the manufacture of some radio apparatus, 
he would be permitted to go vn until he got his plant completed; then 
he would have, under the terms of this ]>ill. to turn it over to the 
Government ? 

Mr. Darby. They would have the merit certainly of encouraging 
manufacture. [Laughter.] 

Mr. Humphreys. I am not discussing the " merit " of it ; I am just 
discussing the terms pf the bill. That would be the effect of it? 

Mr. Darby. That would probably be the effect of it. 

Mr. Hi mphreys. If we discuss the merits of it, it might be sug- 
gested it would encourage the establishment of manufacturing enter- 
prise, but you would have a market then that you would not have to 
quibble about. The law says whenever anybody establishes this en- 
terprise the President shall buy it. 

Mr. Darbt. In any event, the manufacturers are confronted, as 
thev are to-dav, with that absolute condition. 

Mr. Humphreys. Nobody under those circumstances would ever 
engage in that business with the expectation of carrying it on. 

Mi\ Darby. Probably not. 

Mr. Humphreys. Well, certainly not? 

Mr. Darby. Probably not ; yes. 

Mr. Humphreys. He would engage in that enterprise solely for the 
pur])ose of transferring it to the Government as soon as the key was 
handed over to him by the contractor? 

Mr. Darby. That is the suggestion I make; it might be entirely 
untimely. 

What I was principally interested in w^as some method or some ex- 
pression that can be used in this bill which would prevent striking 
down and destroying existing business enterprises. In the case of the 
De Forest Co., in acquiring its 265 patents and the improvements 
which they mark in the art it has cost thousands of dollars and a tre- 
naendous amount of time and ingenuity in experimentation, and that 
is the most costly part of any business enterprise. It has cost a tre- 
mendous amount, and yet under the authority of the statutes as they 
stand to-dav the act of 1910 and the amendment in the Npvy appro- 
priation bill, the Government has the right to have any of De For- 
est's patented apparatus manufactured for it by the Marconi Co. 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 347 

without any other recourse to the De Forest Co. except the right it 
liiis in the Court of Claims. 

Mr. HuMPiiKErs. That is what the Xavy believes in. 

Mr. RowE. Is not that the reverse of what has happened; that is, 
have not the De Forest people manufactured apparatus covered by 
ether peoples' patents for the Government? 

Mr. Dakby. It has, certainly, during the war; we freely admit that. 

Mr. KowE. Well, before the war. 

Mr. Darby. Before the war it manufactured under its own patents, 
which the other companies have contended interfered with their 
patents — yes; just as the Marconi Co. had the De Forest patents. 

Mr. RowE. If this line of jprocedure be carried out that you suggest, 
I should think it would be perfectly fair on the part of the Govern- 
ment, if they wanted any of th^ De Forest apparatus, to get some- 
bod v else to make it for them. 

Mr. Darby. Surelv; that is the law as it stands to-dav. The Gov- 
ernment has that right to-day, to have any De Forest apparatus made 
for it by anybody else, and the only recourse is in the Court of Claims, 
aiul that, I say, is not satisfactory, because of the difficulties — and 
th( se are serious difficulties, when you get into the Court of Claims — 
difficulties of getting evidence: and, besides, the Court of Claims has 
only power or authority to make findings of fact and draw conclu- 
sions of law. The Court of Claims has no equity jurisdiction, and 
if there is any part of jurisprudence that is more important to the 
interests of patent owners it is the equity jurisdiction of the courts. 
The Court of Claims has no right to enjoin, and I doubt very much 
even if it had the right it would exercise it. 

Mr. Hardy. Is it not a fact that patents in this as in many other 
lines" of enterprise are almost hopelessly entangled in litigation, ad- 
verse claims, one with the other? 

Mr. Darby. That is the case here more than in any other line of 
business. 

Mr. Hardy. Marconi and the De Forest and eveiy other company 
is claiming something that the other fellow claims? 

Mr. Darby. Yes, sir; and it is a situation that at present is not 
only distressing, but it is agonizing. It is costing the companies en- 
gaged in that litigation practically their whole substance in the 
litigation. 

Mr. Hari>y. Under those circumstances, the litigant who has the 
longest purse has considerable advantage over the other litigant ? 

Mr. Darby. Yes, sir; that is so. and that has been demonstrated. 
as I have tried to show here to-day, in the litigation between the 
Marconi Co. and the De Forest Co. De Forest to-day is and always 
has been a poor man. He has not had the millions at his back to sup- 

fort him that Mr. Griggs tells us is back of the Marconi Co. He 
as been subjected to the incessant iBre of patent litigation, and, 
so far as I can see, the only ones who have benefited by it have been 
patent attorneys. 

Mr. Humphreys. Would vou limit under the terms of the law which 
you advised Congress to enact the amount of business that any one 
company shall be permitted to do ? 

Jir. Darby. No, sir; I do not think that would be right. 

96700— 19— FT 3 8 



348 GOVERXMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

• 

Mr. Hu3iPHREY8. Well, as the law stands now, is there any le^al 
obstacle in the way of the De Forest people going out and selling 
their receiving apparatus to the ships and erecting shore stations, and 
then erecting high-power stations and putting the Marconi people 
out 6f business, so that they would be the people to complain? 

Mr. Dakby. There is no legal obstacle, so far as I know. On the 
other hand, there are the conflicting claims of patents. There is no 
legal reason why if it was a rich and powerful company, except, as it 
has been made clear here to-day at these hearings, the Marconi Co., 
or now the Navy Department, owns all of the cost stations, and they 
supply apparatus to vessels who use those stations which under Mar- 
coni control could only be furnished by the Marconi Co. and not bv 
any other company. 

Mr. Humphreys. But there is no law to prevent you or the De 
Forest people from putting up some receiving stations of their own 
and selling their apparatus to some shipowner who wants to buy and 
do business with him ? 

Mr. Dakby. Only the law embodied in the radio regulations as 
they exist to-day. 

Mr. Humphreys. They apply to Marconi as well as to you? 

Mr. Darby. Surely, with this difference, the Marconi Co. now has 
the stations; it has the business. It has the supply of apparatus. 

Mr. Humphreys. You would not, however, advocate that some 
law be written on the book to enable you or anybody else to go and 
take it away from them? 

Mr. Darby. No. 

Mr. Humphreys. What they have got, I suppose, they have pur- 
chased ? 

Mr. Darby. They have purchased, surely; and have built up 
surely. But they have acquired that business — their status to-day — 
not by virtue of the monopoly of their patents, but by the practice 
of obnoxious monopoly. That is what I complain about. 

Mr. Humphreys. Wherever in those practices they overstep the 
laws they are subject to penalties? 

Mr. Darby. Oh, yes. Bilt, as Judge Hardy suggested the other 
day, there are a thousand and one ways by which that can be accom- 
plished without going over the lines of the law. 

I want to say this in justice to the De Forest Co.: That I have 
expressed these views here without the benefit or advantage of 
conferring with Dr. De Forest with respect to that. Dr. De For- 
est left the country in October before this matter came on. He is 
still abroad. I have been unable to communicate with him, and 
while I am si>eaking in behalf of the company I do so on my own 
personal responsibility as counsel for the company. And I may say 
I have been Dr. De Forest's patent counsel from the day he took 
out his first patent — from 1900 down to the present time. 

STATEMENT OF MR. E. J. NALLY— Kesumed. 

Mr. Nally. May I correct some glaring misstatements of this 
witness ? 

The Chairman. I suppose it will be logical to do so now. 

Mr. Nally. Capt. Darby said that he thought the Marconi people 
ought to bow their heads in shame. I, for one, of the Marconi 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 34Q 

Co., bow my head in shame — I am ashamed of a man of Capt. 
Darby's ability who should prostitute those abilities the way he has 
been in making such glaring misstatements as he has. 

Mr. Humphreys. I suggest that Mr. Nally proceed in order. 

The Chairman. State the facts as you understand them and let 
the committer decide. ' 

Mr. Nally. Among other things he stated that we ha^ attempted 
to steal his employees. I happen to know of one case where the Mar- 
coni Co. attempted to detach one of his employees. 

Mr. Darby. But that was a matter I had reference to. 

Mr. Nally. That was where the De Forest Co. sent this em- 
ployee to break into our high-power station, which he did, to steal 
some of our valves, which he did, and he was indicted and would 
have been detached from the De Forest employ for some period 
if it had not been for Capt. Hooper and others of the Navy Depart- 
ment, who personally requested me not to push the case, because this 
man Myer was needed in connection with some Government work, 
the De Forest people having said so. That is one case. 

I have other cases where I have correspondence — requests from 
the De Forest employees to enter our employ. But they never got 
into our employ ; I would never think of having one of them in our 
service. 

Capt. Darby has tried to becloud the whole issue. 

He would have it so that the De Forest Co. should hide behind 
the skirts of the Government, so that they could continue to manu- 
facture their apparatus and continue to infringe Marconi patents. 
He is remarkably silent over the fact that he is now under injunction. 
He did not say a word about that; he did not say he was enjoined 
from the manufacture of this apparatus. 

He also speaks 

The Chairman. Mr. Nally, what specific apparatus have you in 
mind ? 

Mr. Nally. Judge Mayer enjoined them, in connection with the 
valves — ^the Fleming valve — and this suit which he laid so much 
stress on was merely a suit in accounting. Once before when they 
tried to have an accounting they changed their organization over 
night and defrauded all just rights under the demand. 

He speaks of the millions back of the Marconi Co. It can not 
compare with the millions put into the De Forest Co., and if it had 
not been for certain efforts by the Marconi Co. De Forest would not 
be enjoying certain immunities which he does at present. 

The Chairman. We will now hear Mr. Simon. Be as brief as pos- 
sible. Do not thresh over old straw, which we have been hearing 
every day. We heard these disputes. What we want is light. 

STATEMENT OF MB. EMIL J. SIMON, NEW YOEE, N. Y. 

Mr. Simon. Mr. Chairman, I am a radio engineer by profession. 
I have made a few inventions in the radio art, and I have been en- 
raged in the last 10 years in the development of that art. In the 
hst three years I have designed and manufactured radio apparatus 
for governmental use. I have supplied the United States during the ; 
war with radio apparatus to the approximate value of $2,000,000. I , 



350 CM)VEBNMENT CONTROL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 

am a designer also of marine and aircraft wireless apparatus, many 
sets of which are in use by the Government at this time. 

I had prepared a short statement, which was largely completed 
before I had heard the other gentlemen who appeared before the 
committee discuss several of the main points that I wished to bring 
out, and I have accorclingly cut down my statement to some extent, 
on that account. 

I desire first to call your attention to the notable absence of sup- 
port of this bill by the other departments of the Government. The 
State Department, you will recall, admitted its entire satisfaction 
with the facilities aflForded the Government for radio communica- 
tion, during the war, under existing laws. 

Taking up the sections in the order in which they appear in the 
bill, I will pass the first section relating to amateurs, inasmuch as 
their attitude toward the provisions of the bill affecting their inter- 
ests has been fully explained to the committee. 

At the risk of repetition T will make a few brief remarks in regard 
to Government ownership as provided for in section 2. It has be^n 
the endeavor of the proponents of the bill by repeated assertion 
to distinguish radio from other public utilities. 

How far their efforts have been successful with the members of the 
conmiittee I am not in position to state, but in my opinion and the 
opinion of a number of representatives of private radio interests 
with whom I have discussed the question, the alleged difference is 
not only not clearly apparent, but this proposed taking over by the 
Government is considered and being watched carefully by many as 
the test case on Government ownership. The War Department, for 
example, could just as consistenely come- before Congress and repeat 
the same arguments with reference to Government ownership of tele- 
phones, telegraph, and cables. 

Aside from this contention of the interests favoring the bill, ex- 
clusive Government ownership of radio would obviously establish a- 
precedent that would be at once a danger and menace to all other 
public utilities. 

Now that the Marconi Co. is no longer in possession of the ship-to- 
shore business, the position it takes in indicating preference for Gov- 
ernment ownership is easily accounted for by its natural reluctance to 
a'pprove or favor leaving the door open to private competing 
interests. 
Mr. Hardy. Does the Marconi Co. favor Government ownership? 
Mr. Simon. The Marconi Co. favors Government ship-to-shore 
operation of radio communication, I believe. They differ as to the 
high-powder stations, but they apparently favor the Government con- 
trol of operation of ship-to-shore stations, as I recall it. 

In reference to Marconi's hundred per cent control of radio and the 
chances of a little fellow like myself, as Mr* Darby called the inde- 
pendent companies, the impression seems to have been created in the 
mind of some of the committeemen that there is or was danger of 
monopoly in radio in this country by the Marconi Co. 

Mr. Nally's reference to 90 per cent control of radio means 90 per 
oent c)wnership in- the ship-to-shore business, which, please under-, 
stand, is only a small part or portion of the radio business in this 
country. 

The Chairman. I think that was his statement. 



GOVEEl<fMENT CONTROL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 351 

Mr. Simon. As a matter of fact, the Marconi Co. has never been in 
control nor has there ever been real danger of a Marconi monopoly. 
Their main hope for control was based on a Marconi patent wliich 
will expire in 1921. 

The Marconi's type of patented apparatus is now being rapidly 
superseded by a new and better system of apparatus, which is com- 
pletely outside of the scope of the Marconi patents. The patents 
covering this new system have now been purchased by the Navy 
Department, which purchase in the opinion of many, including my- 
self, opens these inventions to the use of the public — ^nullifies the 
grant of the patents. 

The Chairman. Make that clear, if you please. . 

Mr. Simons. The purchase by the Navy Department of the patents 
of the. Federal Telegraph Co. covers the newer and more improved 
systems being generally adopted for ship-to-shore and long-distance 
communication. The purchase of these patents by the Government, 
in the opinion of many qualified lawyers, opened these inventions to 
the public and nullified the exclusive grant of the monopoly for the 
life of the patent. 

Mr. Hardy. Your idea is that when the Government obtains it 
there is no more exclusive privilege, but that anybody may use it? 

Mr. Simon. I should think so. The Government now owns the 
patent. 

The Chairman. And it would be true if the Government should 
buy the patent covering some shell or other munition invention neces- 
sary to me Army or Navy? 

Mr. Simon. I did not hear you. 

The Chairman. I say, if the Government should buy a patent on 
some new machine gun or some new part of an Army or Navy air- 
plane or something else, just as soon as the Government became the 
owner it would be open to everybody without danger of being liable 
to prosecution for infringement of the patent ; is that your view ? 

Mr. Simon. Mr. Chairman, I am not a patent attorney, but I have 
t-alked with Gov. Griggs and Mr. Pumphrey and other patent attor- 
neys, and they think still that the purchase of the patents by the Gov- 
ernment nullifies the grant by the Government for the exclusive 
monopoly for the life of the patent. That is a very broad and big 
question. I would not care to offer an opinion on it, as I am not a 
patent attorney. 

Mr. Hardy. Was this invention you speak of, that was so superior 
to the Marconi, ever the subject or contention between the Marconi 
Co. and the inventor, and was there any litigation o\^r it? 

Mr. Simon. No, sir ; nothing that I know of. I believe a suit was 
brought and never pressed. 

Mr. NAMiT. By whom? 

Mr. Simon. By the Marconi Co. against the Federal Co. 

Mr. Nally. Is it still pending? 

Mr. Simon. Replying to Judge Hardy's question, I should say, 
from an engineering and technical point of view, it is usually con- 
sidered distinct and different. 

Mr. Hardy. Was there ever any attempt by the Marconi Co. to buy 
out the Federal Co. before the Government bought? 

Mr. Simon. I have no definite facts on that, but it is rumored, and 
the general understanding is that the offer by the Marconi Co. to the 



352 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Federal Co. to purchase its patents was the reason that the Govern- 
ment had purchased the patents from the Federal Co. 

Mr. Hardy. I did not know that that was the one they spent a mil- 
lion dollars and something for. 

Mr. Simon. One million six hundred thousand dollars, which in- 
cluded some half dozen stations of the Federal Co. 

Mr. Hardy. And their patent rights? 

Mr. Simon. And their patent rights. I might remark right here 
that. those patents have never been, so far as I know, in litigation. 
They only have three and one-half years to run before they expire. 
They had never been infringed upon, if I may use that term, by the 
Government. So that the Government was not liable, so far as I 
know, to any damage by suit in a court of claims, and they have never 
been adjudicated as controlling patents. They are patents covering 
the particular use of a device, which I will admit is essential in order 
to operate that system successfully to-day. 

In connection with ,the original Marconi monopoly, during the 
war the Marconi Co., I believe, supplied the TTnited States Govern- 
ment with apparatus to the extent of some $6,000,000, whereas the 
entire pur<jhases by the Government for radio apparatus were con- 
siderably in excess of $25,000,000. Therefore, the larger part, by far, 
was purchased from independent or other companies and m^vnufac- 
turers than the Marconi Co. 

The bald suggestion of exclusive Government ownership, at thi^ 
time, is crudely premature. 

Most of you gentlemen will recall Prof. Pupin's testimony ber 
fore this committee on the other bill, in which he likened wireless 
telegraph to an infant, born and reared by private interests, and his 
caution not to put this infant in a Government institution, where it 
would pine away and die. 

Why, gentlemen, it is admitted by the proponents of the bill that 
the infant is, as yet, of such tender age that it is only with the 
greatest difficulty that it is able to make itself understood. I refer 
to " interferences " about which vou have heard so nmch and which 
has been urged as the main reason why this bill should be enacted into 
law. 

" Interference '' can mean onlv infantile inabilitv of this very 
young art to as yet function properly. 

In other words, it is not old enough for adoption and needs thb 
care and attention of its . parents, the private interests, to see it 
through until it is able to stand alone and do credit to himself. 

You will recall that in the showing made by the opponents to the 
other bill, it was brought to the attention of this connnittee that 
" interference," quite as serious as that here complained of, was ex- 
perienced during the early stage of development of the telephone. 

You will further recall that such interference was entirely over- 
come by the inventive efforts of private interests, as is best evi- 
denced by the present efficiency of the telephone now in general 
use. 

Give the radio art a fair chance and private interests will, at their 
own expense and within reasonable time, overcome the difficulty com- 
plained of here by the proponents of the bill.. 

Another thought : Is this interference, so bitterly complained of 
bj the Navy, as serious as they would have you think it is? Some 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 353 

of you may have heard the little story about a lady in an automobile 
inquiring of her companion whether she thought pedestrians were as 
sensitive to pain as they were? [Laughter.] That inquiry, in my 
opinion, illustrates, without much exaggeration, the position taken 
by the Xavy with relation to the operation of wireless by private 
interests. 

Xow, as to this very objectionable interference complained of by 
the Xavy, let us assume that private interests have equal cause for 
complaint. Do they come to you for relief? Xo. What they do is 
to put the trouble up to their engineers, with instructions to over- 
come it and the engineers get busy. 

If the problem proves a difficult one, it very naturally takes time to 
solve, and that is precisely the situation we are facing to-day. Many 
very able engineers, in the pay of private interests, are working on 
the problem; and if undisturbed will, in due course of time, work out 
a satisfactory solution; but if Government ownership steps in, dis- 
rupts the outside organizations, and scatters the engineers, no further 
progress will be made. 

Some gentlemen, in opposition to the bill, made the very pertinent 
inquiry as to the further need by the Xavy of the high-power or 
transoceanic stations, pointing out that, in times of peace, our fleets 
seldom go far from our shores, and we were told by the Assistant 
Secretary of State that during the present war the State Department, 
in order to insure greater secrecy in the transmission of its messages, 
niainlv used the cables and onh' occasionallv resorted to Avireless. 

From all I gather from what has been said, so far as Government 
ownership of present existing radio stations is concerned, the pur- 
chase of the few remaining high-power or transoceanic stations would 
put the Government in full possession of the field. 

That brings me to section 3 of the bill. Section 3 prohibits the 
maintenance or operation on land or on a permanently moored vessel, 
etc., of any radio station, etc. 

It may be helpful to you to keep in uiind that the term '* station'' 
as used in the discussion of the bill before the committee applies to 
any wireless apparatus, whether receiving or transmitting, or receiv- 
ing and transmitting, wherever set up for operation, on land or on 
ships. 

Tender the prohibition ])r()vide(l in section 3 it would be a penal 
offense against the law for anyone excepting the Xavy to operate 
wireless telegraph apparatus anywhere in the United States. 

What would that mean? Here, now, we have a dozen or more well- 
known and Avell-established manufacturers of wireless apparatus, 
each employing a number of radio engineers and others skilled in 
I'adio manufacture. 

AVhat is to become of these organizations? The only outlet for 
their product will be the Xavy Department, as all ships required to 
have wireless have been equip})ed Avith it by the^Xavy for purposes 
of the war, and, with care, such equipment may be made to last for 
years, ^o that there will be practically no market for wireless other 
than that created by the needs of the Xavy Department. 

If the calls to be made for wireless apparatus by the Xavy do not 
exceed the prewar calls, and there is no reason to believe they will, 
there will not be enough business to justify existing organizations 
continuing in business: and they will therefore either go out of busi- 



354 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

ness or reorganize for the purpoj^^e of taking up other lines of manu- 
facture. 

In either case, their radio engineers and workmen skilled in 
radio manufacture, will shortly become scattered and lost sight of, 
and of the present exceptionally efficient radio force there will be left 
only one or possibly two comj^anies of necessarily limited output. 

It must not be lost sight of that the invention and devolpment of 
radio to its j)resent state was by private interests and not by Navy 
or Government employees. That was admitted by Commander 
Hooper in his testimony before the committee. He was unable to 
cite a single radio invention of any importance that had been made 
by a Navy man. 

It is also important to bear in mind that the work of the Navy in 
establishing ship and shore stations for war purposes, about which the 
gentlemen of the Navy spoke with considerable prid^,- was made 
possible of accomplishment only by reason of the existence of private 
manufacturing companies, which companies designed, developed, and 
made available for use of the Navy all the wireless apparatus now in 
its possession. 

Without the aid of these outside sources of development 'and sup- 
ply of radio apparatus, the position of the Navy at the outbreak of 
the war would have been extremely critical ; yet the Navy, in its am- 
bition for expansion and power, now proposes, by way of return, to 
sacrifice these loyal interests that made its success possible. 

The threatened scattering of the present forces and their necessary 
abandonment of radio for other branches of engineering, can have 
only one effect on development, and that will be to bring it practically 
to a standstill. There will be no inducement for engineers to devote 
themselves to improving radio apparatus, which, under the terms of 
the present bill, can not be used, unless purchased by the Navy, and 
then only for governmental purposes. 

I can not pass without comment Commander Hooper's amazing 
skitement to the committee that radio patents are essentially dif- 
ferent from patents on other things, and must, therefore, be treated 
differently, or words to that effect. He did not make clear how, why, 
or in what respect radio patents differ from other patents, and we are 
left somewhat in the dark as to the process of reasoning under which 
he arrived at that conclusion. 

Inasmuch as patents, to the lay mind, are ordinarily both mysterious 
and confusing, it is suggested, by way of explanation, that perhaps 
the only patents that have come under Commander Hooper's notice 
have been those relating to radio. You will, of course, understand 
that, as a matter of fact, all patents are alike under the law, and differ 
only as to subject matter. 

Commander Hooper's further statement, in substance, that the 
Marconi Co. has been unable to get the right kind of decisions from 
the courts on their patents was certainly not the fault of the courts, 
but was due, rather, to the limitations of the patents as brought out 
by the defense. 

The chairman of the conmiittee remarked that he would certainlv 
not favor the bill if, as Mr. Edmonds stated, its effect would be dis- 
astrous upon radio patents. There can be no question or doubt that 
Mr. Edmonds was entirely correct in the statement made, as we shall 
now show. 



GOVEKXM.ENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATIOK. 355 

Let me assume the bill to be enacted into law and that the existing 
radio patients, numbering over 1,000, are submitted by their owners, 
for adoption and use by the Navy Department, the only market, under 
the bill, open for such apparatus. Let us say, for purposes of illus- 
tration, that the Navy accepts 100 of the patented improvements and 
rejects, for various reasons, the remaining 900. Of what possible 
value or use are the rejected patents to their owners? 

It is true that every patent is supposed to be a grant, presumably 
made in good faith by the Government to the patentee, for the term 
of seventeen years, of the exclusive right to make, use, and sell the in- 
vention throughout the United States, etc., but this bill nullifies the 
grant, by imposing a fine, imprisonment, and forfeiture of the appa- 
ratus, whenever and wherever the invention of the patent is used in 
the United States, unless such use is by the Navy. 

The effect, therefore, of the bill on all existing and future radio 
patents, not adopted and used by the Navy, would be to prohibit their 
use and thereby render them valueless. 

It is readily conceived that some of these blacklisted patents might 
disclose very important advances in that branch of the art relating to 
wireless telephone service abroad moving trains, which would be 
of inestimable value, if use and development were permitted, but the 
proposed law says " No," and that settles it. 

Many other advances in the art, making possible, for example, the 
combination of the wireless telephone wim the present wire lines, in 
general use in residences and offices, thus providing public telephone 
service with ships at sea, would likewise be barred. 

As a result oi the operation of such a law, our American radio in- 
ventors would undoubtedly be driven into those foreign countries, 
where opportunity is given them to develop and exploit their inven- 
tions in their own way and free of Government restrictions. 

Section 4 of the bill, giving the Navy, a military branch of the 
Government, power to carry out the provisions of the law, would be 
a dangerous experiment in a democratic country such as ours and a 
decided step toward military domination or Prussianism. 

The recent raids in New York and other eastern cities by the Army 
and the Navy in rounding up slackers, and incidentally including 
with them hundreds of innocent citizens, illustrates the heavy- 
lianded methods likely to be employed by the military against the 
people if given authority under the law. 

The Chairman. You do not think the slackers ought to have been 
gathered up, then ? 

Mr. Simon. I do, but I do not think they ought to have been gath- 
ered up in that way. 

The Chairman. I do not know what way was employed to gather 
them up, but I think they ought to have been gathered up just the 
same. 

Mr. Simon. But by due process of law. 

The Chairman. We had to adopt some special measures to pro- 
vide for partriotism of some people during the period of the war. 

Mr. Simon. It would appear absurdly inconsistent, while Presi- 
dent Wilson is in Europe preaching " Peace on earth, good will to 
• man,'' for Congress, in time of peace, to authorize the use of the 
** mailed fist against the American people." 



356 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

The special licenses for emergency use in cases where no other 
rapid means of communication are available, provided for by section 
5 of the bill, appear to be intended mainly, if not entirely, for mili- 
tary purposes as an aid in maintaining order and control under 
abnormal conditions, such as in cases of floods, fires, riots, strikes, 
etc. No provision is made for granting such licenses in time of peace, 
Avith conditions normal, and this section is objected to as further 
and unnecessarily increasing: the power of the military branch of 
the Government and as wholly superfluous in the bill in view of the 
sections above discussed, which give the Navy full power for all 
purposes. 

It was agreed by the gentlemen of the Navy that section 6 should 
be canceled, and comment with reference to this section 15 is there- 
fore unnecessarv. 

Mr. Hardy. I do not know whether I understood you to say that 
if there is a question of prohibition of the erection of private sta- 
tions you would object to the right of the Secretary to grant a 
special license under emergencies and things of that sort.. 

Mr. Simon. No: I did not say that. Vou mean the statement I 
just made about section 0? 

Mr. Hardy. No: section 5, I thought you said was objectionable 
because it allowed the Secretary to grant special licenses. 

Mr. SiMox. Only for emergency purposes, and I interpret that to 
mean cases of floods, fires, riots, et •., not for general peaceful pur- 
poses. 

Mr. Hardy. Do you want to take away that power? 

Mr. Simon. 1 say the .section is useless in that the ])owei: has 
already been taken awav. 

The Chairman. T believe vou are not a lawver? 

_. • •  

Mr. Simon. No: I am not. 

The Chairman. That would not be susceptible of that view, is my 
opinion. 

Mr. Simon. I mav be entirelv wronc:. 

The meaning and purpose of Section 7 is not clear. If the Navy 
is to own all radio stations, under the provisions of section 2, and 
no additional stations, can be operated, in view of the provisions of 
section 8, then there Avould be no other staticms to which licenses 
could be issued under the act entitled '^An act to regulate radio com- 
numication,'' approved August 13, 1912. 

Section 8 has, T believe, been fully dis-ussed, excepting the last 
clause pr()vi(ling for an appropriation sufficient to make ''just com- 
pensation,'' in an amount, as yet, undetermined definitely, but known 
to run into manv millions of dollars. 

« 

This uncertainty would appear to cast doubt ui)oii the wisdom of 
such legislation. 

Mr. Hi'MPiiREYs. Do YOU think Congress should make an appro- 
priation to i)ay just compensation for stations that might be taken 
over ? 

Mr. Simon. Yes: I do; but I sav thero are so liianv elements entei- 
iiig into patent rights and the cost of develo])ment that it is uncertain 
how much the Government will have to pay eventually for the taking 
over of this property. 

Mr. Humphreys. You think they ought to pay just compensation^ 
Jjon ever much thflt may run up. 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 357 

Mr. Simon. Exactly. But I believe there is a great deal more in- 
volved than the mere phraseology of the bill indicates. 

Mr. Burroughs. Your idea is against the whole policy of taking 
over anj^thin^ at all ? 

Mr, Simon. Exactly. I am in favor of the continuation of exist- 
ing law, or possibly a modification of that law to meet the require- 
ments of the present day, as would be brought out by an international 
commission, which undoubtedly will meet in a year or two. 

AVith regard to sections 9 and 10, 1 wish to say that I believe tfie 
Secretary of Commerce should be substituted for the Secretary of 
the Navy, as is the case in existing law. 

Mr. RowE. How long have you been in the manufacturing business 
in this line? 

Mr. Simon. Individually, 3 years ; w ith other companies, 10 years. 

Mr. RowE. Thirteen vears in all ? 

Mr. Simon. No; I beg your pardon — 7 with the other parties 
and 3 individually, and that makes 10 years. 

Mr. RowE. You have built up quite a large business, have you not? 

Mr. Simon. During the war, of course, the demands of the Gov- 
ernment were so great that they called on everyone who was qualified 
to build as much apparatus as they could produce, and during that 
period I turned out all I could for the Government. 

Mr. RoAVE. You have not felt that there was more competition in 
this line than there is in other lines of manufacture, have you? 

Mr. Simon. I have never been in any other line, but I have enjoyed 
competition. I am a great believer in competition as being an incen- 
tive to greater effort. 

Mr. Row E. Did you start with large capital ? 

Mr. Simon. I started with nothing. 

Mr. RowE. There is still a chance for other people to build up a 
business in this line if they want to, as you think? 

Mr. Simon. I certainlv think there is. T had associated with me 
durinc: the war and still have a large number of the younger class 
of radio engineers who have exactly the same future before them, 
I hope, that I have had, and opportunity to do exactly what I did; 
that is, eventually to leave the employ of companies and develop their 
own inventions and ideas and obtain the profit for it that is due them. 

Mr. RowE. Then you do not think the Marconi Co. is monopolizing 
the business? 

Mr. Simon. T do not. The Marconi Co., as you have heard, has 
brought suit airainst me here, and in Canada, and I have been able 
to properly defend mvself in all such cases, I believe. 

The Chairman. We will now hear Mr. McClellan. 

STATEMENT OF MR. GEORGE McK. McCLEIXAN, REPRESENT- 
ING THE HONOLULTJ CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, HONOLTTITJ, 
HAWAII. 

Mr. McClellan. My name is George McK. McClellan, and I repre- 
sent the Chamber of Conunerce of Honolulu. 

The Honolulu Chamber of Commerce, Mr. Chairman, is very loath 
to enter any appearance here to oppose any measure that has been 
introduced by the chairman of this committee, because of our per- 
sonal regard for him and the confidence we have in his work. 



358 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

The Chairman. You need not have any compunction on tliat score. 

Mr. McClfxlan. But this bill is so far reaching 

Tlie Chairman (interposing). My impressions on this question, as 
in tlie case of all bills that come before this committee for considera- 
tion, are open to conviction. 

Mr. McClellan. A part of one of the cablegrams which I have 
received from the chamber of commerce states in regard to this mat- 
ter that I am asked to oppose the bill providing for the Govern- 
ment taking over point-to-point transoceanic radio systems, that 
Hawaii has had no commercial radio service during Navy control, 
but now that peace prevails there is no need of radio control; that 
there is no apparent attempt on the part of the Navy to take care 
of commercial business since the armistice has been declared; that 
with cables congested we are without rapid communication, and we 
request that 3^ou protest against any measure placing the Govern- 
ment in control of either the cables or the radio service. 

The Chairman. I will just say that the clerk has handed me a 
telegram from Hawaii, which I believe is in exact terms with the 
one which you referred to, and hence it Avill not be necessary to put 
this in the record. 

Mr. McClbllan. Mr. Chairman, it is perhaps worth noticing that 
in the Hawaiian Islands was first made a successful commercial use 
of the wireless telegraph. We are not novices in Hawaii on the 
question of wireless telegraphy. We had the first successful operat- 
ing system, so far as my information goes — I believe I am correct 
in that — that there was anywhere in the world. We had local men 
who have participated in the improvement of the apparatus, and at 
the present time in addition to that old established wireless, the inter- 
island system, we have four high-power stations on the islands of 
Oahu, on which Honolulu is located. There is the high-power 
station constructed by the Navy Department at Pearl Harbor, which 
is tuned and powered to communicate directly with the Arlington 
station and Panama and all the long-distance stations. Two are 
high-power Marconi stations and one of the Poulson system, referred 
to as the Federal, which has been purchased by the Navy Department. 

There have been a good "many statements made here, gentlemen, 
before this committee about the interference which has been met 
with in the operation of these systems. I call your attention to this 
fact that in the Hawaiian Islands, all within a scope of 200 miles, the 
longest range of the interisland system, you have located these other 
four high-power stations, and tliose have been operated, as I say, since 
the beginning of wireless operation and have been coordinated suc- 
cessfullv, which would seem to indicate that there is no inherent 
necessary conflict. 

The Chairman. Did you state where these stations are located? 

Mr. McClkllan. I did not state on what part of the islands they 
are located, Mr. Chairman. One is located on the windward or east- 
ward side of Oahu, one at Cocoa Head, and one at Pearl Harbor, and 
one at Kahuku. 

The Chairman. Within what radius? 

Mr. McClellan. Well, there is a total radius there of, I should 
say, offhand, 40 or 50 miles airline, but the stations at Cocoa Head 
and Pearl Harbor are close to the interisland station, so that, al- 
though some of the others are far away, they have not found serious 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 35d 

difficulty in the question of coordintitin^ tho^e higk-power stations 
with the lower, which convinces me that the statements made here, 
that it was physically necessary for the Navy Department to have 
charge of all these systems in ordei* to coordinate the question of 
wave lengths, is not well founded in fact. 

If the Wanamaker intercommunicating stations are interfering 
with the Navy, it is either because they are not conforming with the 
regulations, which should properly be laid down, or else because the 
Navy operators are incompetent or have improper apparatus; one or 
the other. The interference is not necessary, and achievement enough 
has already been made so that there is no necessary conflict between 
those things, and I do not think that this committee should proceed 
in their decision on whether or not they will adopt this bill with any 
representations made here that is necessary from a physical point of 
view, because it is not. 

One man can get up here and say one thing and another man can 
get up here and say another, but I am citing to you, gentlemen, 
the point in the world where wireless has been operated longer than 
any other, and I. am telling 3^ou facts of what has occurred, not my 
theory of what may or may not be done; I am not a wireless operator 
and I can not tell you exactly about the meters, and wave lengths, 
but I can tell you that those two systems have been working side by 
side without interference, which is the important thing after all. 

Mr. RowE. Do you mean they work side by side or that no inter- 
ference, as a matter of fact, exists of operation? 

Mr. McClellan. No serious conditions arise from working side 
by side. 

Mr. RowE. How do you know ^hat? 

Mr. McCleli^n. I live there and the thing has gone on year after 
year. 

Mr. RowE. And you have heard no complaints by the operators of 
these particular stations as to. any interference in the operation of 
their particular plant? 

Mr. McClellan. There may have been individual cases and there 
were difficulties as the system was being worked up, but the point 
is that the interisland system has been working continuously from 
the very founding, as I say, of the commercial. 

Mr. RowE. Do you know why there should be any difference in 
respect to those four stations in Hawaii than existed with respect to 
four similarly located stations on the Atlantic seaboard? 

Mr. McClellan. I do not know ; I can not speak for the Atlantic 
seaboard, but I can imagine it. 

Now, then, it is to be considered that after the interisland wire- 
less system was first established came the Marconi long-distance 
stations. After that was in operation came also the Poulson or Fed- 
eral system, and they succeeded in operating. I can not tell you in 
detail what their relation or coordination was, but both have been 
operating commercially and they must have been doing so without 
interfering. They have sent messages back and forth. I have done 
so frequently ; I have occasion constantly to be communicating with 
the islands; and I suppose I have sent ordinarily, say, 25 or 30 mes- 
sages a month. That is just simply in the day's work, and our mer- 
chants do the same thing, and the newspapers carry news twice a day,. 



360 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 



I 



or, they have — I am speaking of previous to war conditions — ^the 
newspapers carry twice a day the Associated Press dispatches trans- 
mitted by wireless. They have depended exclusively on the wire- 
less, and have thrown over the use of the cable entirely for news. 
They have received all of their press dispatches by wireless and have 
gotten them just the same as we have our milk delivered at the house 
m time for breakfast, which does not look as though there was very 
much , interference. 

Mr. RowE. I just want to understand if you take the emphatic 
position that, for instance, the naval station at Pearl Harbor and 
the commercial station located near Pearl Harbor, if they were op- 
erating on the same wave lengths, would have absolutely no inter- 
ference in the transmission of messages on those two respective sta- 
tions ? 

Mr. McCiiELLAN. I am citing the fact that after the Marconi was 
already in operation that the Poulson system came in and operated 
alongside of it satisfactorily, and that subsequent to that the Navy 
itself came in and established a high-power station of its own at Pearl 
Harbor and that they operated successfully, without interference. 

As to the question of ship to shore business, I believe I am correct 
when I state — I have had that confirmed by one of the Navy men 
since these hearings have been going on — ^that these are all taken by 
the interisland company in Hawaii. 

In Hawaii we lead a very peculiar, isolated life. We are out there 
in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, cut off from the world by 2,000 
miles of ocean, under the necessity of carrying on our commercial 
affairs with those limitations, and it must be evident that any limi- 
tations on our communication is a very serious matter, because, due to 
vessels sailings and merchants in Honolulu must do more cabling and 
use more wireless communication than would be the case in this 
country where a shipment could be made any day or several times a 
day. 

During the war the Government has taken over all of the high- 
power stations, as you know. The commercial business has been en- 
tirely excluded from those lines. It would perhaps be useless to enter 
now into discussion on whether that policy was necessary or not. 
The people of Hawaii were so interested in this war, so willing to do 
everything that they could for it, that they submitted to that thing 
while they believed very freely that it was not necessary. But, how- 
ever that may have been, if the Navy was not willing to accept a com- 
mercial message from a man who had sent his sons into the aviation 
service or into the ranks of the army in France, whether or not they 
trusted his loyalty or thought it inadvisable to allow any commercial 
message to go, that at least does not apply to the messages since the 
armistice has been concluded. But to-day the Navy still has control 
of these systems and commercial business is still excluded from these 
lines, although it is difficult to imagine any way by which the use of 
those lines now could give aid or comfort to the German Army. 

The Chairman. It would be a pretty good way to demonstrate it. 

Mr. McClellan. In what way? 

The Chairman. By opening up the lines to commercial business. 

Mr. McCleixan. It would seem a golden opportunity to illustrate 
to the world how wonderfully efficient they could be in operating in 
an efficient way. 



GOVERXMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 361 

Mr. Hardy. Have you made any application to the Nav}' to open 
up the wireless for messages, or anything of the kind, in Hawaii? 
A gentleman here tells me that they were opened last night. 

Mr. Greene. They heard the sound from here. 

Mr. McCliEllan. It may have been an echo from these hearings. 

Mr. Hardy. You realize, Mr. McClellan, that at the close of this 
war a great Nation like this could not do everything the next morn- 
ing? 

Mr. McClellan. That is very true, but an order of that sort is 
one of the shortest things that could be done quickly and readily 
and spells itself so freely that there is not a private enterprise on 
earth that would not have had that thing done the next morning, and 
that comes right to the very foundation of this whole question, Judge 
Hardy, as to whether or not the Government should handle the 
commercial business of this country. 

Mr. Hardy. How long before you applied to the Navy Depart- 
ment? 

Mr. McClellan. If I was in Honolulu instead of here I could an- 
swer that question, but I would answer it in this way, that in my 
opinion, the NaA^' having taken the initiative in appropriating those 
lines, it was up to them to open the wireless communication with- 
out anybody making a request. 

Mr. .Hardy. Still, if you wanted them you should have asked for 
them. 

The Chairman. I would say that within 30 days or a little over 
is not a very long time. 

Mr. McClellan. I have made similar requests in the past. 

Mr. Hardy. I am talking about this matter, not " similar " mat- 
ters. Do you know anything about whether they asked to have the 
wireless opened up or not? 

Mr. McClellan. I can not answer, but I would risk my hope of 
Heaven on the assertion that they have. 

Mr. Hardy. Some of us, you taiaw, have not got very high hopes 
in that regard. [Laughter.] 

Mr. McClellan. That, of course, is an open question. 

Mr. RowE. Mr. McClellan, right on that point, do you think it is 
a conservative position, looking at it from the standpoint of na- 
tional security and sense, that it is entirely prudent for the Navy 
Department, with all its responsibilities, to look at this particular 
matter from a different angle from what you would as a commercial 
viewpoint, and probably would exercise more caution in throwing 
those wireless stations open to the public than you would likely do 
from the standpoint of a commercial interest? 

Mr. McClellan. I could answer that question by illustrating 

Mr. RowE (interposing). In other words, you are looking at it 
entirely from the angle of a commercial man and you do not seem to 
give consideration to the element of caution and prudence that might 
have been desirable to use by the Navy. 

Mr. McClellan. I want to say this in answer to that question, 
that in this war Hawaii showed her interest and devotion to the cause 
of the country, although only a territory, remote, in the middle of 
the Pacific Ocean, and that she placed more men in the service in pro- 
portion to her citizen population than any other State of the Union; 
Hawaii has subscribed more money for Liberty loan bonds, has given 



362 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

more iiione}^ per capita for the Red Cross, and furnished more men 
participating in the Ked CVoss per capita basis than any State of 
the Union, and has had, of course, numerous of her sons killed and 
wounded in the war. That much is to show vou what her interest 
in the war was. 

In addition to that Hawaii, in order to show her willingness to 
cooperate with any request, when the Food Administration started 
out, accepted — which we did not under the conditions have to 
accept — the regulations as set forth by the Food Administration 
for her chief product, which is sugar, on the basis, which, if it had 
been made in the same wav with respect to cotton and wheat would 
have made a difference of $50,000,000. 
Mr. RowE. I am not impugning Hawaii. 

Mr. McCl.eu>ax. Hawaii was interested in this war and conse- 
(juently Avouhl not want to interfere, but when you get down to the 
question of the actual situation there are certain things we all know. 
A man on the street knows some things just as well as a college pro- 
fessor, and a clerk in a dry goods store knows some things as well 
as a Justice of the United States Supreme Court. 

When it came to cutting out all messages from San Francisco to 
Honolulu, irrespective of the dependability of the person who sent 
them or the nature of that message, it may have been necessary from 
the Government's standpoint, but if you will put yourself in our 
place in Hawaii you can answer the question for yourself. Having 

cut out all of the wireless 

Mr. Hardy (interposing). It seems to me, if you Avill pardon me, 
you are now discussing the policy of the Government during the 
war. 

Mr. McClellan. That is the question the gentleman asked. 
Mr. Hardy. I do not see what it pertains to with respect to this 
bill. 

Mr. McClellan. I am not here for that purpose. I am here only 
for the purpose of showing that when the Government is in con- 
trol of a public utility what actually happens in this, gentlemen^ 
that a set of Government employees are in control. So far as the 
. actual needs of the Government are concerned Hawaii, like any State 
of the Union, is willing to make any sacrifice — ^there is not any 
question about that — but when it comes to a question of sacrificing 
necessary things to meet the ideas of a certain number of Govern- 
ment officers or employees who have the "say" about that thing, 
you are facing then a practical question which a business man has a 
right to discuss on its merits and to present on its merits. That is 
the question at issue: it is not a question of whether you are loyal 
to the Government. It is a question of whetherer you are capable 
of considering matters involving citizens who are paying taxes and 
all that sort of thing, whether they are just as loyal to the Govern- 
ment and whether their judgment is just as good as that of these 
Navy men, who are a fine, loyal set of men, and we are all proud of 
them. But, after all, they are human men, and they are subject 
to errors of judgment, certainly as much as business men who carry 
large affairs and who have done so for many years. 

Mr. Hardy. Somehow 3^ou think that a monopoly in the hands of 
the Government will be more irksome than if it were in the hands of 
a private concern? 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 363 

• 

Mr. McClellan. I was going to proceed to tell you Avhy I thought 
so, Judge Hardy. In this case in Hawaii where we were cut off from 
the use of wireless, we were also cut off from the use of the cable in 
the matter of a personal message of any sort whatsoever, so that, for 
example, if I were in Washington, representing the chamber of com- 
raerce, and my wife and boy remained in Honolulu, or if a merchant 
in Honolulu was kept there by the emergencies of the war and his 
wife had to come over here to keep their children in college, and one 
of those children should be sick and at the point of death, that child 
might die and be buried and the Avife could by no manner, of means 
communicate with the father, although they were well known. 

^Ir. Hardy. You must have had some very cruel people over there 
in charge of the wireless or cable ? 

Mr. McClellan. That, sir, is just exactly what I am coming to — 
not that I was there, it is true — but that you put in the hands of one 
man in the Hawaiian Islands the power to say whether or not any 
mes^^age should go, and he said "no"; and those cases I cite have 
occurred again and again, Judge Hardy, during this war. People 
liave died and been buried and their families did not know about it 
and could not find out. 

Mi*. Hardy. I think you ought to have court-martialed the man in 
charge of things over there. 

Mr. McClellan. I want to say to you that if you should go into 
executive session I could tell you more than I am saying now. 

Mr. Hardy. You ought to make a complaint against that officer. 

Mr. McClellan. Gentlemen, so far as I am concerned, represent- 
ing the chamber of commerce, I am not here for the purpose of mak- 
ing a complaint about what has been done. I am stating these things 
to illustrate to this committee what inevitably happens as a part of 
bureaucratic administration of affairs, and it must necessarily be 
bureaucratic ; 3'ou can not have Government control of anything ex- 
cept by bureaucrac}', by any device I have heard of. 

:Mr. RoAVE. Do you not imagine that France and Italy and England 
and all^ the other belligerent nations exercised arbitrary control 
over the cables and wireless during the war and the period of hostili- 
ties? 

Mr. McClellan. The point is that when the Government had con- 
trol of anything that is what it comes down to in the end, that cer-^ 
tain officers and employees have the " say " and that those officers 
and employees are not responsible to the public in the same way that 
an employee of a corporation is, for the very good and simple reason 
that most of them hold positions practically for life and it does 
not make a great deal of difference whether things go one way or 
another way. That is not the case under a commercial system^ 
where a man must make a certain response to public conditions under 
private ownership. 

So far as the situation there is concerned, I can not see any reason — 
and mv belief is that if the communication svstem of those countries 
had been under private control when the armistice was declared and 
it was known two or three days before it was to be declared approxi- 
matelv on Mondav, the 11th dav of November, everv one of them 
would liave had an order readv and it would have been in effect bv 

9«770— 11)— 1>T li 1) 



364 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

12 o'clock on Monday, Xovember 11th, to reopen those communica- 
tions to the public. As it is, the officer informed me it was done 

The Chairman (interposing). They should all have been opened 
up the next day regardless of where the German submarines were 
and what was necessary for the protection of our country; that 
would have been your conception of the national defense and sound 
national policy? 

Mr. McClellan. I am looking at it 

The Chairman (interposing). You are just looking at it from a 
cold blooded, ( ommercialism point of view. 

Mr. McCleli^vn. There was not a (xerman submarine in the Pa- 
cific Ocean. 

The Chairman. If thoso stations had been open generally they 
could have conmiunicated with Japan or South America or even with 
Europe from the wireless stations in Honolulu — they are high-power 
stations ? 

Mr. McClellan. Yes. I have spoken in part on the question of 
necessity, but I want to make this point, that so far as the practical 
necessity of having the Government take over this control, that seems 
to me to be finally answered by the fact that the largest shipping 
stations in the world have not given wireless over to the Government 
control ; and, so far as I am concerned, I have more confidence in the 
experience than in the prediction, even, of men Avho are very much 
abler and brighter than I am. 

I do want to say, Mr. Chairman, however, that so far as the com- 
ment as to things commercial are concerned, that the questions in- 
volved in that have been only commercialism which was absolutely 
necessary to the winning of the war, and not of the making of money. 
I think it would be unfair to Hawaii and to other parts of the coun- 
try to have it stated otherwise, because that is the quesion involved. 
The Army and the Navy could not operate without food. The Food 
Administration has been beseeching us all through the period of the 
war to keep up and increase the output of sugar, and yet these very 
restrictions here have been putting on the brakes to interfere with the 
very production of foodstuflfs which the Food Administration were 
begging us to work out. It was not a question of commercialism, 
but a question of carrjdng on the world's necessary work and business 
jn a way that would not interfere with the Government's affairs, 
but what should be actually constructive help to it, and it was not 
a question of commercialism without regard to the welfare of the 
country. 

So far as the statements that have been made here as to the alter- 
native of a Government monopoly or Marconi monopoly, I have no 
interest in that matter, except the interest of the Hawaiian Islands. 
We are not stockholders in the Marconi Co. — ^I mean the people of 
the Hawaiian Islands — to anything more than a possible negligible 
extent. So that I hold no possible brief for the Marconi Co., but 
I want to point out the fact that individual and single companies 
like the Kilbourne and Clarke Co., of Seattle have become very 
large manufacturers of apparatus. That the whole Federal system 
was developed, the Polsom system, after the Marconi people were in 
the field all goes to show that there is no natural or inherent mo- 
nopoly in wireless communication, and that any statements made to 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OP RADIO COMMUNICATION. 365 

this committee that the alternative lies in the Grovernment taking over 
this whole thing as a single monopoly or having one company have 
the monopoly is unfounded in fact, in the light of experience of the 
art and the business use of the art up to the present time. 

Mr. Hardy. Mr. McClellan, you understand monopolies do not 
grow up in a week or a month ? 

Mr. McClellan. Yes. 

Mr. Hardy. You understand in the beginning of wireless there 
could not have been a monopoly with only a half dozen stations, but 
as time goes on — you heard Mr. Nally's statement — was there any- 
thing unreasonable in what he said ? 

Mr. McClellan. I did not hear Mr. Nally's statement. 

Mr. Hardy. He said as to the ship-to-shore business they controlled 
90 per cent of it when the war broke out, and that he expected to con- 
trol 100 per cent of it in this country. That may not be a monopoly 
in your judgment, but it is in mine. That is his statement, and he 
is the head of the Marconi Co. 

Mr. McClellan. With all due respect to Mr. Nally, I would say he 
is probably not inclined to minimize the participation of the Marconi 
Co. in the business. 

Mr. Hardy. Do you not think he knows more about it than you do? 

Mr. McClellan. It is quite possible he does, and it is also possible 
that others know more about the outside business, too, than he does, 
which he may not have given very much attention to. 

Mr. Hardy. He was speaking of this ship-to-shore business. 

Mr. McClellan. I understand, but it has just been stated here un- 
controverted that out of the business furnished to the Government 
out of this war about 24 per cent 

Mr. Hardy. I am not talking about those wireless messages. 

Mr. McClellan. There was a time. Judge Hardy, when the West- 
em Union Teliegraph Co. had an actual monopoly of commercial 
telegraphy in this country. 'But even after having been established 
many years it did not prevent the Postal company becoming a real 
competitor, and I Avould say that when the time comes that the 
Marconi Co. does achieve a monopoly, and if they use that monopoly 
in a way that will interfere with the transaction of business it will be 
time enough to meet that situation. But so far as our experience in 
Hawaii is concerned, our judgment is that the development of that 
sort would be much more desirable than to have the Government 
have the monopoly. 

I want to speak about that question of desirability. 

The Chairman. Be as brief as you can. I would like to get 
through with a couple more of these men this evening. 

Mr. McClellan. I believe I have occupied considerably less time, 
Judge Alexander, than most of the other speakers, and I would like 
to cover two or thre^ more points. 

The Chairman. I say, be as brief as you can, and do not repeat too 
much of the argument we have already heard. 

Mr. McClellan. It is a fact too well established to be argued here 
that whatever activities the Government may have engaged in they 
can not deal strictly on a business basis. I do not think there are 
very many people who contend that it can do so, and just as an illus- 
tration OT that is the difference which has been shown in the re- 



3-66 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

sourcef Illness of private business meeting the situation and necessity 
of developing the dyestuff business in this country after war was de- 
clared as compared with the Government's efforts with unlimited 
money and power to commandeer and give priority orders for every 
part of their business, to develop gases for warfare. The other even- 
ing a very extensive dinner was given to the commander of that de- 
partment of the Government's work and he told about the wonderful 
things that would have happened from American producers of gases 
if the war had gone on. But as a matter of fact, not very much had 
been done during the history of the war. However, when the same 
situation came before private business, with the necessity of develop- 
ing the dyestuff industry, they did it and did it quickly, and did not 
have priority orders and unlimited capital at their disposal to work 
it out. 

The Chairman. That was done before we became active in the war, 
and yet the gtis business has been develojDed in the last twelve 
months — a marvelous development — and I can not imagine any pri- 
vate concern having done what the Government did, and I think you 
would agree with that if you w^ere familiar with the facts. 

Mr. McCleli^vn. I have kept somewhat in touch with that, and my 
judgment v;as that so far as the accomplishment was concerned, that 
greater quickness in meeting the situation was achieved by the private 
initiative in the ease of dyestuffs. 

So far as the statemeht which has been made to this committee, 
which is a very important one — I refer to the statement made by the 
Secretary — that the Government's taking over a great system would 
mean reduction of rates and better service to the public, I wish to say 
that I do not see how that expectation could be fairly entertained. 
AVe have before us the actual experience of the Government's taking 
over the carrier lines of the country and giving an increase of rates 
beyond the dreams of any railroad president who has ever lived, and 
yet those railroads are showing reduced earnings at the present time ; 
and I do not believe there are more than a handfull of trained busi- 
ness men in this country who believe that the Government should 
operate these lines, however necessary it might be from other points 
of view. It might be necessary as a national policy to have it done, 
but to say they can do it and save money on it is appealing, in my 
opinion, to the credulity of this committee and the country. 

The Chairman. I do not think it is necessary to criticize the activi- 
ties of the Government during the prosecution of this war to deter- 
mine whether or not this bill has merits, because in all these agita- 
tions the very best civilian expert talent in the United States has been 
called into the employment of the Government, and these achieve- 
ments have been under their impulse and by virtue of their experi- 
ence. You are going too far in your effort to make your case, and it is 
not necessary. 

Mr. McClellan. I am not unnecessarily. Judge Alexander, slam- 
ing anybody; I am pointing to a fact which is certainly very vital, 
and this question of whether or not this country shall embark on 
general Government control of wireless 

The Chairman (interposing). It is not necessary to do that to 
criticise these activities of the Government through these civilian 
agencies which were called into the service of the Government, be- 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 367 

cause they have been the greatest contribution to the successful 
prosecution of the war. 

Mr. McClellan. I am referring simply here to the results of ex- 
perience. 

Mr. Hardy. If I understand you aright, Mr. McClellan, as soon 
as these great civilian administrators like Schwab and the rest of 
them got into the Government employ they became inefficient and 
the Government employ made them poor and sorry executives. The 
Government utilized the best talent that the country was supposed 
to have, but you say their administration of affairs was wonderfully 
crippled as soon as they got under the Government ? 

Mr. McClellan. If the stenographer finds anything in the record 
.where I said the administration of the Government was crippled, I 
would be glad to have it read back. 

Mr. Hardy. You said the railroad service deteriorated in quality 
while it increased in cost of operation, and all because it was under 
the Government. 

Mr. McClellan. If there was a statement that I made that the 
quality of the service deteriorated, I would be ^lad to have it read 
back to me. I would rather not have myself misrepresented in the 
record. 

Mr. Hardy. If you did not state that, I withdraw that part, but 
jou certainly said there was increases in cost of operation. 

Mr. McClellan. I stated that after increases had been made 
greatly beyond what any railroad president has known 

Mr. Hardy (interposing). The income depreciated? 

Mr. McClellan. Still I know the income of some of these roads, 
and the most important ones, is showing a decreasing rate of earnings. 

Mr. Hardy. And yet the Government had the bei^ experts the rail- 
roads could furnish them to run these trains, did it not? 

Mr. McClellan. My judgment, sir, is that the Government can 
not in the form of Government agencies use the best talent. Of 
course the Government does everything 

Mr. Hardy. Then there is something about the fact that it is the 
Government that causes defective administration, although they 
have the same men? 

Mr. McClellan. I think there is an inherent incapacitv for the 
Government to carry on business affairs as compared with private 
interest. 

Mr. Hardy. Even though employing the very same men ? 

Mr. McClellan. Even though employing the very same men, be- 
cause "^ 

Mr. Hardy (interposing) . What is the mystery that these men can 
not do as well for the Government as thoy do for private concerns? 

Mr. McCleixan. I do not think it is a " mvsterv." As Theodore 
N. Vail has pointed out, one of the fundamentals is that in the Gov- 
ernment system men, for the most part, have a life tenure of their 
position. There is not the same incentive to work, and that the 
human being is not sufficiently far advanced but what he still needs 
the incentive of necessity and personal competition to bring out the 
best there is in him. 

Mr. Hardy. Did anybody employed^ in the running of these rail- 
roads have a life position ? 

Mr. McCleltxAN. The men under them 



368 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Mr. Hardy (interposing). We are talking about the railroads. 
Stick to that. 

Mr. McCleliiAN. The men who are running the railroads, of 
course, have been dealing with a new situation. 

Mr. Hardy. Is not that the whole thing, or very largely so ? Were 
not the railroads breaking down when the Government took over 
transportation? That was the condition that was producing confu- 
sion everywhere. Is it fair to hold that up as a stigma against any 
of the officials under the conditions the railroads were taken over and 
attempted to be run ? 

Mr. McClellan. I think that, of course, the question of the condi- 
tion of the raihoads is too long a story to go into. 

Mr. Hardy . You brought it out by these references that seemed to 
me to be unfair to the administration. 

Mr. McClellan. Mv contention is that the (jovernment can not 
do 

Mr. Hardy (interposing). But you were giving this as an illus- 
tration. 

Mr. McClellan. And the reason for it is that the Goverument 
necessarily does its work through a system of bureaucracy and in the 
main witli a life tenure, and there is not a member of this committee 
who does not know that you can go into any department of this Gov- 
ernment and see employees there who are simply there because they 
have been with the Government a long while and the Government 
will not discharge them. 

Mr. Hardy. I happen to have been on the Committee on Bef orm of 
the Civil Service, and I know that the heads of departments have 
kept old men under the pitiful plea that it was hard to " turn the 
horse out after old age," and that was for the purpose of building up 
the question of old-age pensions. I grant there has been some of that, 
but if I had been the head of the department I might too have been 
guilty of saying " Here is a man walking down life, and I do not 
like to turn him out." And the tendency of the Government has 
caused some extravagance, I grant that. 

Mr. McClellan. One point is that the Government, so far as I 
can understand the policy of the Navy Department in acquiring 
these lines that liave already been acquired for Government opera- 
tion, has never been authorized by Congress although funds for 
their purchase was authorized by Congress. If I am mistaken in 
that, I would be glad to be cori^cted. 

It has been argued before this committee that because! the Govern- 
ment department has done something heretofore unauthorized by 
Congress and has reached a certain stage, because they have acquired 
a certain amount of these shore stations, that therefore for that 
reason Congress should now go on and authorize further aquisition— 
that seems to me to be a very poor line of argument and rather a 
subversion of the mental idea that the just, powei*s of Government are 
derived from the consent of the governed. It seems to i.ic, gentle- 
men, that that is rather a fundamental question which is directly 
involved here. 

In addition to that, as has been pointed out — and I think it is 
worth repeating — ^you are dealing with the last element now. You 
talked always about the " freedom of the air." Tlie air is free, but 
if you are going to give an absolute monopoly of the use of the air 



GOVERNMENT CONTEOL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 369 

to the Government, so far as wireless telegraphy is concerned, it 
will inevitably follow that you will also find the Government de- 
manding and receiving the absolute, the monopoly, of the use of the 
air for transmission, for use by airships, and you are going on from 
one step to another to make the Government the thing instead of 
the private initiative of this country. 

And I want to say to you, gentlemen of this committee, that at a 
time when we are closing a great war which is supposed to liave been 
for the benefit of the individual, the freedom of the individual, that 
it would be a very grave and serious mistake to have any such policy 
as this adopted. To go to the proposition of having the Government 
secure absolute monopoly of a ultility of this far-reaching import, 
becaus? it will mean that just as it has meant in many cases, that 
an individual employee of the Government who happened to join 
the service 25 or 30 years before and is still kept on the pay rolls, 
v/ill have the power of saying in certain cases, "You shall do this; 
you shall not do that." And while we are everyone of us willing to 
do anything that is necessary to support the Government, we do 
not want a state of affairs where the individual employee whom 
the President can not check up and the Secretar^'^ of the Navy does 
not have the time to check up, that that one man has the power of 
saying practically what a community shall do. 

The Chairman. We will now hear Mr. Israel. 

STATEMENT OF MR. LESTER L. ISRAEI, HEW TOBK CITY, N. Y. 

The CiiAiRMAM. What is your business? 

Ml*. IsKAEL. Radio engineer, by profe-,sion. 

The Chairman. Are vou connected with anv firm? 

Mr. Israel. I am now associated with Mr. Simon, in New York. 

I worked for the Navy Department for four years, or from 1913 
to March 1918, and since that time I have been out in the commercial 
field developing radio apparatus for Avar purposes. 

I wish to place myself on record as a man who started out fresh 
in life to go into a Government institution and find there the possi- 
bility of a life work. I wns very enthusiastic about it the first year. 
I was in perhaps the most efficient military or governmental establish- 
ment that there is in the I'^nited States, the Navy — I have great 
resj;)ect for it. But, after the first year, I began to see that work and 
development were definitely and seriously limited by the dead wood 
of the life jobbers, the intrigue of politics, and the ever changing 
direction of naval officers. I was verv successful and the work 
followed me around. Soi/U I was charged Avith the duty of de- 
termining what new thinirs should be used bv the Navv, the investi- 
gation of them to find out their possibilities. I worked in the New 
York Navv Yard for over three veai-s and when the war seemed 
imminent I was called to Washington, where I sttived for a vear. 
In February of this year, when the war clouds of Europe looked 
pretty black, I threw up the job in despair. I can tell many reasons 
why I did that, but to do so would occupy many hours. Perhaps 
one illustration will suffice. 

A man came to the Navy Department with an idea that he could 
paralyze the magneto of aeroplanes by wireless. Eventually he was 
sent to me to find out whether it would work or not, and I examined 



370 GOVERXMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

him {ind I found that (»ither he* was a crook or a German spy, and I 
so reported. My time W-is valuable and the organization I had 
around me was busy. We were trying to do things. Instead of 
following the recommendation that I made, an olncer stepped in 
and to ))lease somebody else work was done upon that fellow's idea. 
Time was spent on it with no result, as any engineer could have 
foreseen. 

It has been mentioned here that the Naval Radio Department has 
not patented or invented anything. This is true, not because the 
civilians in naval employ, or the naval officers, have no ability, but 
because of the showy wasteful system under which they live. Their 
ideal is not the ideal of service to the w^hole country or service to 
any art; it is the ideal of immediate military efficiency. 

After leaving the Navy I went out into the commercial field to 
see whether something could not be done there to improve our poor 
Army and Navy communication apparatus. I looked around to find 
u live organization. I believe I found one in Mr. Simon's; and I 
can safely say I have accomplished a whole lot more there than I 
rver could have accomplished in the Navy Department. 

There were many other expert young men who had started along 
with me who threw up their hands in disgust and left, some joining 
the Army and some taking over work with commercial companies. 

T would like to be questioned on any phase of this work that might 
interest the committee. I feel I am in a peculiar position in that 
before the war and during the greater part of the war I was in the 
employment of the Ciovernment, and then I had the opportunity 
of going out and being in commercial employ. 

Afr. Gkkkxe. In what line of business? 

Mr. IsRAFi,. Radio engineering, developing the radio art, trying 
to make comuumication better; trying to serve not o^ly the Navy 
but also the Army or any other agency of the Government that this 
art would be valuable to. 

Mr. (lUEENE. Where did you go, what part of the country did you 
go to in order to develop this? 

Mr. Israel. My stations were New York and Washington Navy 
Yard, and at times I was sent out on various battleships. 

Mr. (}ri<:ene. You said you left the Navv and went into commer- 
cial life; that is what I want to get at. I understand you went into 
some commercial business? 

Mr. IsRAEi.. I went to New York where I have recently been en- 
gaged on an Army job. A real live lieutenant was sent back by Gen, 
Pershing to have designed and built some field radio equipment 
that could be used. This lieutenant had worked for several other 
do}>artmonts of the Government besides the Army: he wanted the 
best, in an impossibly shoii: time, so he came to a commercial estab- 
lishment to iret results, and he has o^ot them. 

Mr. Bi'RRoi r.Hs. How long have you been engaged on this work? 

ifr. Israel. Six years. 

ifr. BiRRon; us. Where were you educated? 

Mr. IsRAKi,. In the College of the City of New York. 

Mr. Ri RRoiGns. You graduated there? 

ifr. Israel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. RrRRorr.Hs. As an eWtrical engineer? 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 371 

Mr. Israel.. I started off as an electrical engineer and specialized 
for a year on radio and then took a half year's postgraduate course. 

Mr. Burroughs. Can you tell me and the committee whether you 
know of any reason, from a technical standpoint or a scientific stand- 
point, why this matter of interference can not be handled by regula* 
tion as well as in any other way, as well as through Government 
ownership ? 

Mr. Israel. It can be handled by regulation ? 

Mr. Burroughs. Yes. 

Mr. Israel. I know of no reason wh}' it can not be handled by 
regulation. I do not regard the problem of interference as serious. 
The art is in its infancy, and there are, I should say, at least ten sys- 
tems which are now known which, if properly used, would eliminate 
the major part of the interference and what is left could be regu- 
lated out. 

Mr. Burroughs. You say you do not think it is serious at present? 

Mr. Israel. No, sir — it may be serious at present, I am not 
familiar with the operating end ; I am connected with the engineer- 
ing development. But if it is serious at all it is only because of some 
inefficiency in the apparatus. 

Mr. Burroughs. How would you get rid of that ? 

Mr. Israel. My present idea is to adopt a liberal attitude toward 
all private enterprise and possibly all Government enterprise to in- 
vent new apparatus, and improve existing apparatus, so as to 
eliminate it. 

When I was with the Navy I offered in one year to develop a sys- 
tem so that radio messages could be sent in English in a way that no 
outsider would be able to read them. I did not get much encourage- 
ment. I know I can do it. It would not have cost the Government 
more than $50,000; but no one in that service would plan work of 
this nature for a whole year ahead. 

The Chairman. Put it up to the Marconi Co. and probably they 
will regard it with more favor. 

Mr. Israel. I may in time. I am at present engaged on the tail 
end of war problems, and when the proper times comes perhaps I 
shall do that. 

The Chairman. We shall now be glad to hear Mr. Cutting. 

STATEMENT OF FULTON CUTTING, CAMBRIDGE, MASS. 

Mr. Cutting. I am connected with the Cutting & Washington 
Corporation, of Cambridge, Mass., which is a radio nuinufacturing 
and engineering company. 

I want to just say a word or two protesting against this bill, be- 
rause, in the first place, if the bill goes into effect I will close out my 
company. I do not care to go into a business where I only have one 
customer and where that customer is the United States Government. 
I do not consider the prospects good. If the bill does not pass I have 
no fear of competition with our company. 

One thing perhaps has not been brought out with reference to 
high-power stations. I am exceedingly optimistic about the future 
of radio and the possibilities of accomplishment. I believe in the 
present state of the art it is a very serious undertaking, and if the 
Government goes into it either one of two things might happen. 



372 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

Either it will not develop, so that the public will not get the use of 
it, or it will develop and it will be such a serious competitor that if 
they give the public the rates which the system allows it will seri- 
ously endanger the cable companies, or if they keep the rates up 
it will seriously injure the public, and the only way out of it is that 
the public might take over the cables, and that will be a good start 
on general Government ownership. That is all I have to say. 
[ Laughter.] 
The Chairman. Mr. Godley, we will now" hear you. 

STATEMENT OF PAUL F. GODLEY, OF THE ADAMS-MORGAN CO., 

MONTCLAIR, N. J. 

Mr. Godley. T am a radio engincei- and a member of the firm of 
The Adams-Morgan Co., of Montclair, X. J. 

I iim appearing here on behalf of the anuiteurs, and possibly an 
explanation of my failure to request a hearing at an earlier date may 
be in order. 

In executive session last week, the Board of Directors of the Radio 
Co. of America, the body which I am here to represent, concluded 
that the amateurs as a whole would be repi-esented to a sufficient ex- 
tent and in a satisfactory manner by Mr. Maxim of the American 
Radio Relay League, whom the committee has heard, I believe. But 
it has since occurred to the board, due to the developments, that it 
might be of advantage, by way of clearing the atmosphere as it con- 
cerns the radio amateur, to again bring the subject before the com- 
mittee for brief reconsideration. 

It might be of interest to the conmiittee, and of interest as a 
matter of record, for me to give the names of the executive officei-s 
and the members of the board of directors, as well as their present 
addresses ; with the permission of the chairman, these names follow : 

President, Capt. E. H. Armstrong, Inspection and Research Sec- 
tion, Signal Corps, Army, Radio Laboratory, Paris, France; vice 
S resident, David S. Brown, master signal electrician. Signal Corns, 
!adio Laboratory, Little Silver, N. J.; treasurer, Lieut. Earnest V. 
Amy. Engineering Section, United States Army, American Expedi- 
tionary Forces; corresponding secretary, Ensign E. el. Styles, Naval 
Radio for Aircraft, Bureau of Steam Engineering. Board of Di- 
rectors, Lieut. Harry Saden water. Naval Radio for Aircraft, Bureau 
of Steam Engineering; Ens; Frank King, Naval Radio for Aircraft; 
Theophilus Johnson, jr., expert radio aide. Bureau of Steam Engi- 
neering; L. G. Pacent, consulting engineer for radio contractor: and 
your orator, a radio engineer, designer, and radio contractor. 

The showing of the executive officers and board of directors is 
representative of the showing made by the membership of the club 
as a whole with respect to their loyalty and fitness for service as evi- 
denced by positions held. 

The Radio Club of America wishes to go on record as firmly op- 
posed to the bill now before this committee — ^bill H. R. 13159 — for 
the reasons which follow: 

First, because Department of Commerce regulation as provided 
under the law now in effect has been entirely satisfactory to both 
amateur and commercial interests, and thoroughly fair to all inter- 
ests concerned including those of the Navy Department. 



GOVEEiSTMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 373 

Statements made by Commander Hooper before this committee on 
last Thursday in regard to* the controversy between the Navy De- 
partment and the Wanamaker Co. over the interference with naval 
radio traffic caused by operation of the New York Wanamaker sta- 
tion will serve to bring out the point which I have in mind. In 
effect, Commander Hooper's statement was as follows : 

That the naval station in the Brooklyn Navy Yard, New York, 
was continually interf erred with by the Wanamaker station. That 
numerous efforts on the part of the Department of Commerce failed 
to clear the situation because each time determinations as to wave 
length and decrement were made by the Department of Commerce 
representatives, it was found that the station was operating on its 
assigned wave length and that the decrement or damping of the 
emitted wave was of the proper value, and that, therefore, nothing 
could be done about it. Now, it is the firm conviction of the members 
of this club that, had the Navy Department been intrusted with the 
control of this" station, that the station would have been shut down, 
and a license to operate refused, notwithstanding the fact that proof 
was to be had — at this very time — that, not only was it possible to 
operate the Brooklyn yard station without interference with the 
Wanamaker station, but, a Very simple matter, even perhaps with the 
apparatus then in use at the Brooklyn yard station. 

In this connection and with the permission of the chairman, I wish 
to read a brief extract from the minutes of the hearing before this 
committee on bill H. R. 19350 in January, 1917 — an extract from a 
statement of Mr. Armstrong, the president of the organization which 
I represent — and to be found on page 202 of the minutes of this hear- 
ing. It reads in pai*t as follows [reading] : 

My particular interest in this legislation began several months ago, when I 
was asked by one of the Government inspectors at the port of New York to in- 
vestigate the question of intereference between the Wanamaker station and the 
Brooklyn Navy Yard, when the Brooklyn Navy Yard was receiving signals 
from Arlington. Now, the conditions of that service are these: The Brooklyn 
Navy Yard is 2 miles from the Wanamaker station. They desire to receive signals 
and messages from Arlington, which is 200 miles away from the Brooklyn Navy 
Yard. The Arlington station operates on 2,300 meters; the Wanamaker sta- 
tion operates on 1,8(M) meters. That is a difference of wave length of 25 per 
cent. The power of Arlington and the power of the Wanamaker stations are 
of the same order. The Brooklyn Navy Yard station can not receive from 
Arlington while the Wanamaker station is transmitting. That is an estab- 
lished fact. The (Government inspectors of the port of New York know that, 
because the Navy has complained of the interference of the Wanamaker station. 

At the request of Mv. Sadenwater, I set up some of my apparatus at Colum- 
bia University, which is about 5 miles from the Wanamaker station. I had 
absolutely no difficulty in receiving messages from Arlington while Wana- 
niakor'a was transmitting. I could put the telephones on the table and read 
the messages from Arlington. In order to hear the messages from W^ana- 
uiaker's you had to tnlve the telephone:; up and put them on your ears and then 
had to wait until Arlington stopped before you could detect they wer^ there. 

In order to duplicate the conditions under which the Brooklyn naval sta- 
tion was working, I went ovef* to the Lackawaima Station. The Lackawanna 
Station is just tlie same distance from Wanamaker's that the Brooklyn Navy 
Yard is; that is 2 miles. I took with me a set of amateur apparatus. Part 
of it I had purchaseil from amateur manufacturers and part of it I had 
knocked together myself, and part I had borrowed from amateurs — amateur 
apparatus. And I set »the apparatus up at the Hoboken Station and we re- 
ceived messages from Arlington while the Wanamaker station was sending 
without the slightest interference. That was witnessed by the Government in- 
spector, Mr. Sadenwater, and by the Marconi engineer, Mr. Elenschnelder. I 
can not understand why the Brooklyn Navy Yard can not duplicate what I 



o74 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

did witli amateur apparatus. l)ecause I know I can pick out at least half a 
dozen amateurs who can do exactly what I dUi, And I can guarantee to repeat 
that 24 hours of the day ; I can jaiarantee that with the apparatus which I 
us(m1 we can rc»ceiv(» Arliiijrton on 2,Ji00 meters while Wanamaker's is working 
and never miss a dot. 

AVhat, bovond a po.ssibility of a doubt, might have ha])pened in the 
case of the Wanamaker station under the conditions just outlined, 
were the Navy Depaitinent in control, would most ceitainly happen 
to any amateur who, no matter how strictly he might hold himself 
to the provisions of the law, and no matter how conscientious he 
might be in carrying out the letter and spirit of that law, might 
find himself tlie victim of circunistanc^s such as these. 

The point is, that the amateur would rest much easier, feel a de- 
cidedly greater sense of security, were the regulation, as it applied to 
him, allowed to rest in the hands of the Department of Commerce, 
because experience has shown that that department can and does give 
him a square deal, and that his representations to the Department 
of Connnerce are given the same careful and just consideration as is 

Siven to the representations of the commercial companies or the 
avy Department. 

I do not wnsh to insinuate that the officers or the enlisted men of 
the Navy Department would deliberately give the amateurs other 
than a square deal, but even the experiences of the past few weeks, 
to wit, the framing of a bill by Navy people which entirely overloked 
the amateur and gave him no place in the scheme of things radio, is 
very decided evidence that he is not given much consideration by 
the men of the Navy; because, perhaps, their entire attention is (and 
it should be) given to things military. I wish here to bring out the 
point that the amateur as a body has no quarrel with the Navy De- 
partment. Without the possibility of a doubt amateurs as a whole 
have a high regard and great respect for the ability and accomplish- 
ments of the Navy personnel. 

It has been brought out before this committee that the Navy is very 
seriously concerned over the possibility of interference from the 
amateur, and the amateur in turn is very seriously concerned over 
the possibilities of another kind of interference from the Navy, 
namely, interference by legislation, and they — the amateurs — ^liave 
yet to hear a convincing argument as to why it is necessary or de- 
sirable from the standpoint of anyone concerned for the Navy to 
control the regulation of the amateur. 

Second, wall you please consider the subject from the standpoint 
of the inventor? Whether he knows it or not, every vserious amateur 
is potentially and at heart an inventor, and I wish to call your par- 
ticular attention to the fact that the possibilities of development 
tending toward the improvement of the art from this direction are 
not to be passed over lightly. As an inventor, it is decidedly to his 
interest to do everything in his power to prevent the monopoly of 
radio by the Navy, as has already been brought out befoi^e this com- 
mittee, both at the present hearing and previously. 

Third, every amateur is, or is potentially, a thorough-going, ener- 
getic citizen, w illing and readv to bear the burdens of full citizen- 
ship, and as such and as one with whom radio is a hobby, takes par- 
ticular interest in the quality of the service and the state of develop- 
ment of radio as it is actually applied to the branches of the military 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 375^ 

service on which he depends to protect his citizenship. He is firmly 
anchored in his beliefs that continual changes should be taking 
place in the radio equipment employed by these military arms to 
the end that absolutely the best, and nothing but the best, be at all 
times available and in service ready for emergency. 

Were the Navy to take over and operate the radio systems of the 
country as a commercial proposition, on the grounds that it will 
effect a gi'eat economy and a conservation of effort and resources, 
he most seriously, gentlemen, asks this question: "Is it not most 
likely that the Navy Department in its effort to bring credit to 
itself for an economic administration of commercial radio traffic, 
yield to temptation, and in so doing seriously neglect development 
in efficiency of equipment, and is not this apt to lead to a serious 
situation in times of national peril ? " 

Should this bill, against the wishes of the amateur, be passed in 
any form, the Radio Club of America wishes to recommend that its 
passage be in such form as to include in detail the following points: 

That all amateur stations be licensed to transmit, only when the 
operator, upon examination, is found to be able to effect transmis- 
sion and reception of messages at the rate of 60 letters per minute. 
Continental Morse Code. 

That all receiving stations be licensed, but that no operator's license 
be required for the operation of a receiving station.. 

That amateur transmitting stations be restricted to wave lengths 
of 250 meters and below, except in cases where operation above these 
wave lengths will not interfere with handling of commercial and 
naval radio traffic, and where good cause for the operation at longer 
wave lengths can be shown. 

That, excepting within a radius of 5 miles of a naval receiving 
station no geographical limitation be placed upon the power used 
by the amateur transmitting station. 

That the power restrictions governing amateur radio, transmitting 
stations be allowed to remain as defined by "The Act to Regulate 
Radio Communication" of 1912, pending a national conference of 
amateur radio organizations, which may be called to take place in 
the near future, and at which the Navy Department and possibly 
the commercial interests should be represented, this conference to 
be called for the purpose of launching a policy with regard to 
amateur radio activities, satisfactory to the Navy, commercial and 
amateur interests alike. 

The Chairman. Mr. Vreeland, if you would like to be heard, we 
will hear you. 

STATEMENT OF ME. FBEDEEICK K. VEEELAND, MONTCLAIE, N. J. 

Mr. Vreeland. My residence is Montclair, N. J., and occupation 
is research in electro physics. 

I feel very hesitant in coming before you at this late hour when 
your patience is already sorely tried. My only excuse in doing so 
is that I i-epresent a viewpoint that has not been presented to the 
conmiittee thus far, and that is the viewpoint of the inventor and 
worker in developing the art. If you care to have that viewpoint 
presented, I shall be glad to do it very briefly. 



376 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

I am not much interested in the operating end of radio telegraphy. 
My sphere is in the laboratory, and my work consists in learning 
what I can of the secrets of nature and trying to apply them to 
some useful purpose in the progress of the art. I am interested in 
this bill, because I think it provides the means of greatly stimulating 
the prepress of research in the development of the art. 

In order to explain why I feel thus, let me outline very briefly* 
the situation that confronts the inventor. I have felt for many years 
that a monopoly in the operation of radio telegraphy was inevitable. 
I feel to-day that it is right at hand. It has been very frankly ad- 
mitted that the monopoly exists already in the ship-to-shore field, 
and I think the danger of monopoly is even greater in the long- 
distance field, because of the greater expenditures involved and 
because of the more complex patents situation. 

The reasons for the monopoly are not only the physical limitations, 
that have been very fuUj pointed out, arising from the use of just 
one medium of communication, but are found more particularly in 
the very complex patent situation. 

It should be clearly borne in mind that radio telegraphy is not 
the work f6r any one man, but of a great many men. 

Mr. Marconi was the first to make radio telegraphy a practical 
success. I give him all honor for that. But his early apparatus 
went into the scr^p heap long ago, and the apparatus that we have 
to-day is the work of a great many contributors all over the world. 
Each one of those workers has taken out patents. Those patents 
overlap and interlace, in a manner that is well-nigh hopeless. If it 
be left to the courts to straighten out the tangle, I think I am safe 
in saying that many of the devices would become obsolute before the 
matter could be settled. 

The consequence is that the onh' way to carry on successfully 
radio telegraphy is to have the patent rights acquired by some con- 
cern which is rich enough to buy them, or which is strong enough to 
snap its fingers at the inventor and let him spend his energies, if he 
will, in litigation. 

That situation, I think, is unavoidable. Nobody to-day can oper- 
ate a practical radio station without infringing a number of patents 
owned by scattered individuals or concerns, and the worst of it is that 
it is very difficult to know just whom you are infringing. The only 
way I can see to straighten out the tangle is to cut the Gordian knot 
and so perform a great service in the development of the art. 

So much for the present and past situation. 

As to the future, I think that if the control of radio were put in 
the hands of the Navy Department, instead of in the hands of a 
private monopoly having only its self-interest to serve, it would 
greatly stimulate research and invention, because it would offer to 
the worker a reasonable hope of receiving a fair reward for his work. 

You know, gentlemen, that inventions in this art are not made by 
a man sitting in a dark room knitting his brows, and then emerging 
with an invention full fledged. In nearly every case they are worked 
out by a long process of painstaking research. 

That research costs money and it costs time. The research worker 
is usually poor. He is almost always a poor busineas man. and 



GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 377 

when he has produced something useful, the only chance of reward 
that he has is through a patent. 

When he gets a patent, in the present situation, it is very difficult 
for him to realize on it, unless he is willing to spend great sums in 
litigation. And, furthermore, he falls an easy prey to the promoter 
representing various interests, who usually get the lion's share of 
the bargain. 

Both of these difficulties could be cleared away, I believe, in the 
way that has already been outlined by Commander Hooper. I be- 
lieve that if the Navy Department were given a free hand in this 
art, they would be able, by means of such a committee or board of 
patent investigation as has been proposed, to offer to the inventor a 
I'easonable prospect of putting his invention into practice and receiv- 
ing such reward as will enable him to go on and make new inventions. 

r do not mean by this that the Navy Department itself should 
take up the technical development ot the art; I do not understand 
that they ha»ve any intention of doing so. But, by gathering under 
one head the various interests involved, and giving the inventor a 
reasonable opportunity to present his claim, and if it were found 
worth while and the means for putting it into operation were pro- 
vided, a very great service would be performed. 

There is one point on which I differ from the suggestion of Com- 
mander Hooper, and that is as to the manner in which agreements 
that might be reached between the inventor and such a commission 
shouM be adjusted. I think it would be very unfortunate if this 
matter were thrown back into the Court of Claims. 

Mr. Greene. I was going to suggest that that seemed to be the 
idea on behalf of the Navy, to go to the Court of Claims ; and they 
would probably be as white haired as I am before they would get a 
decision. [Laughter.] 

Mr. Vreeland. That is precisely my point, Mr. Greene. I wish 
some adjustment might be reached whereby such agreements as might 
be entered into between the inventor and the patent board might be 
carried out and the inventor get his just dues in a reasonable time, 
without having recourse to the Court of Claims. 

Mr. Edmonds. If a patent is purchased by the Navy Department, 
to whom does it belong? 

Mr. Vreeuind. I am not a patent lawyer, sir. Mr. Dyer can 
answer that question much better than I can. 

Mr. Edmonds Would it be your idea that a patent bought by the 
'Smi^Y Department would become public property and anybody could 
use it? 

Mr. Vreeland. I am not informed on that point. 

Mr. Edmonds. Well, it is only a question of whether the public 
money should be used for the purpose of procuring a patent which 
anybody could use, because I do not think anybody in the Navy 
ought to own it: 

Mr. Vreeland. Mr. Dyer, who will follow me, has had wide expe- 
rience in patent law, and I think he can answer that question. 

Mr. Edmonds. All right; I will ask him. 

Mr. Vreeland. And I think, furthermore, that a Government 
monopoly would not mean, in any sense, a monopoly of manufacture. 
On the contrary, I think if the Government had control of the patent 



378 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

rights it would tlirow the iiianufacturing field open free to all, for 
noriuaL healthy, competitive manufacturing. 

Mr. P^DMONDS. You answered my question right there, then. 

Mr. VreeLuVNd. I thought you referred to the legal question; and 
iuy j)oint is 

Mr. Edmonds (interposing). You said if the Government con- 
trolled the patent, it would throw the manufacturing open to every- 
bodv. 

Mr. Vkeeland. For this reason: That they would all be manufact- 
uring for the Xavy Department, which would be the owner of the 
patents. A manufacture has a perfect right to manufacture for a 
patentee, or the owner of a patent, who orders the articles from him. 
Therefore, I say the Xavy Department can order from anybody it 
pleases, and he will be free to manufacture without infringing any 
patent rights, if the Navy Department owns the patent rights. 

Mr. Edmonds. You mean that any manufacturer making the 
article for the Government, which owned the patent, could not 
patentee may lose his rights. 

Mr. Vreei^nd. Yes, sir. You see that is quite a different matter 
from the question as to whether ownership by the Navy Department 
Avould make the patent public property. 

Mr. Edmonds. Yos, that is quite different from what I was asking 
about. 

Mr. Vkeeland. Yes, I see. 

Mr. Greene. Well, it would, bo a sort of autocracy — ^the thing 
tliat wo are ti'ving to get rid of. 

The Chairman. No. his idea is that if the Government owned the 
patents, the Government could then let out the manufacture of the 
])atented articles to as many different agencies as it desired. 

.Mr. Greene. AVell, that is all theoretical. 

The Chairman. Well, any patentee can do that, can he not? 

Mr. Vr?:eland. Can do what? 

The Chairman. Let anybody he chooses manufacture the article 
of which he controls the patent. 

Mr. Vreeland. Yes, sir; but if the patents are controlled by 
private interests, the private interests which control the patents are 
not likely to do that : they are likely to keep the rights to themselves. 

Mr. Greene. Well, they have the opportunity which should be 
given to every American citizen to try to earn a dollar. 

Mr. Edmonds. When he gets a patent, the Government guarantees 
him a monopoly of it for 17 years, and if he can not exercise that 
monopoly he is deprived of his rights under the law. 

Mr. Greene. Well, if we turn it over to the Navy Department, the 
patentee may lose his rights. 

Mr. Edmonds. Yes, they might abolish the patent laws as to 
inventions in this art. 

The Chairman. I do not think you imderstand what the witness 
meant: I do not think he has that in view. 

Mr. Greene. I do not know what he meant ; I know what he said. 

The Chairman. AVell, it is very clear to my mind what he meant. 

Mr. Vreeland. But that is an incidental point, to my mind. The 
main point I want to make is that, from the viewpoint of the de- 
velopment of the art, I think that the control of the situation by the 
Navy Department, rather than by private monopoly, which I think 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL 01 RADIO COMMUNICATION. 379 

is otherwise inevitable, would greatly aid in the development of the 
art by stimulating workers to put forth their best efforts. 

Mr. Greene. Well, you had better get elected to Congress, and 
come here and try to put a bill through in that way. [Laughter.] 

Mr. Burroughs. Did I understana correctly that you had sold 
out any patents yourself ? 

Mr. Vreelani). I have not sold any outright; I have sold some 
devices under license. 

Mr. Burroughs. To whom ? 

Mr. Vreeland. The Government is using several of my devices; 
they are paying a nominal royalty, or license fee, pending adjust- 
ment after the war. Being a patriotic citizen, I thought it my duty 
not to press the Government for an adjustment during the war; 
that adjustment is pending; they are simply paying a nominal fee 
at present. 

Mr. Edmonds. Are other companies using your devices? 

Mr. Vreeland. Yes, sir. Nearly every high-power receiving sta- 
tion in the world is using a device covered by one of my patents, and 
thousands of minor stations in addition. 

Mr. Edmonds. And they are not paying you ? 

Mr. Vreeland. The Government is the only one that is paying me 
a cent. 

The Chairman. Have you anything further to submit, Mr. 
Vreeland. 

Mr. Vreeland. No, sir; I am through. 

The Chairman. Mr. Dyer, we will hear you briefly noAv. 

STATEMENT OF ME. FRAKE L. BYER, MONTCLAIR, N. J. 

Mr. Dyer. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen: I practiced for a good 
many years as a patent lawyer but am now retired. 

For many of those years I was intimately associated with Mr. 
EdLspn, at Orange, N. J., and was general counsel for Mr. Edison 
and the various Edison companies from 1897 to 1912; and for a 
number of years I was the president of the various Edison concerns 
at Orange. I am in the manufacturing business independently at 
the present time. I am also an inventor myself and for many years 
have been very much interested in inventions and inventors. 

I hope that I can say, in a few words, something that has not as. 
yet been said to the conmiittee, first, in reference to the patent situa- 
tion ih this art that I think the Navy Department was confronted 
with; and second, with regard to my own experience and my own 
knowledge of the extent to which inventions have been developed 
and are being developed by the Navy Department. 

In expressing any opinions as to patents, I am doing so largely 
from memory, because when I came down here I did not expect to 
address the committee. 

But it has been very obvious to me, Mr. Chairman, that the com- 
mittee has not been informed. correctly as to the patent situation, 
even to the remotest extent. 

I will take a device in which I am personally interested, with Mr. 
Vreeland, merely as an example of the point I wish to make. And 
that is the modern high power receiving apparatus, employing un- 

96770— 19— PT 3 10 



I 



380 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

damped waves, used, in these stations that you have been told about 
during the hearings on this bill. And I will tell you how that device 
was developed, and who contributed to its development; what pat- 
ents cover it ; and who owns those patents, so that you may see how 
tremendously complicated the whole patent situation is, and how ob- 
viously impossible it would have been for the Navy Department, 
confronted with that patent situation, to attempt to decide the ques- 
tions presented to it. But I want to repeat, Mr. Chairman, that I am 
relying entirely upon my memory as to the patents, and my purpose 
is not so much to discuss the scope and bearing of particular patents 
as it is to illustrate the difficulties of the situation. 

The modern high power receiver using undamped waves involves, 
in the first place, as I am informed, an arrangement invented by 
Marconi, known as four-circuit tuning, the patent on which is owned 
bv the Marconi Co. I cordially indorse, of course, all that Mr. 
Vreeland has said concerning Mr. Marconi; he stands as the great 
shining light of this art. And I know, from my own association with 
Mr. Edison, that he also looks upon Mr. Marconi as one of the 
world's gi'eat inventors. Thus, at the very start, we find that every 
receiving apparatus using the undamped wave infringes this four- 
circuit tuning patent owned by the Marconi Co. 

The second patent involved in this apparatus is the so-called 
undamped wave patent of Fessenden, owned by the International Co. 
I do not know whether that patent has been sustained or not; my 
recollection is not clear as to that. 

In the third place, these undamped wave receivers utilize the so- 
called heterodyne system ; that is to say, the oscillations generated in 
the antenna of a certain frequency have superimposed upon them 
oscillations of a slightly different frequency, so that beats are se- 
cured, which are heard as an audible note in the telephone. But the 
heterodyne receiver, invented by Fessenden, was not the perfected 
device of modern times ; it was a very crude arrangement that occu- 
pied very much the same relation to the modem art that the original 
Bell telephone did to the perfected art of telephony. The Bell tele- 
phone as a commercial device was made possible by the later inven- 
tion of Berliner, but Prof. Bell discovered the broad principle and he 
was, therefore, entitled to the patent, by which the Bell Co. domi- 
.nated the telephone field until 1898. The heterodyne receiver, as 
developed by Fessenden, was a device in which the oscillations in the 
antenna circulated in one coil of a so-called dynamometer telephone 
and the oscillations of slightly different frequency circulated in the 
second coil of the dynamometer telephone. But that showed the 
principle. Mr. Fessenden also stands very high in the wireless art. 
He was an experimenter with Mr. Edison at one time. All modem 
rer^eivers using the undamped wave involve the heterodyne principle. 

The fourth step in the development of the undamped wave re- 
ceiver was made by Mr. Vreeland away back in 1907. Mr. Vreeland 
was the man who first combined in one and the same circuit the ef- 
fect of the oscillations in the antenna, circuit and the oscillations of 
slightly different frequency generated in the local circuit, so as to 
obtain in this way electrical beats as distinguished from magnetic 
beats, as proposed by Fessenden. Those electric beats could be de- 
tected by extremely delicate detectors, and thus the sensitiveness of 



GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 381 

the receiver was increased, making it possible to transmit signals 
over a long distance. Thus, this invention of Mr. Vreeland's was a 
further advance in the art. 

The fifth step was also made by Mr. Vreeland, and that was the 
discovery that the beat current generated by the interaction of the 
two sets of oscillations of slightly different frequencies coilld be rec- 
tified by means of a rectifying detector, making it possible to use a 
magnetic telephone as a receiver and further increasing the sensitive- 
ness of the device. . That was the fifth step; and all of these un- 
damped wave receivers embody that invention. 

The sixth step goes back again to the Marconi Co. They have a 
patent on a device called the " Fleming valve," which was the fore- 
runner of the modern audion, and all of these undamped wave re- 
ceivers employ this invention as a special kind of detector to permit 
the highest practical results to be secured. 

The seventh step was the use of the De Forest audion, a special 
refinement of the Fleming valve, the patent on which is owned by 
the De Forest Co. Audions are used in all undamped wave receivers 
to secure a further measure of sensitiveness. 

And the eighth and final step, so far as I know, was the so-called 
regenerative audion invented by Mr. Armstrong and covered by his 
patent, by which the effect at the receiver will be greatly magnified, 
or in other words, by which a further degree of sensitiveness to the 
apparatus will be secured. 

So that we have in this one apparatus, which is not much larger 
than a small music box, eight separate patents, all of which are 
used, and all the result of the work of different inventors ; and owned, 
respectively, by theMarconi Co., International Co., Mr. Vreeland, De 
Forest, and Armstrong. 

Now, it is perfectly understandable to me, Mr. Chairman, how 
greatly mystified the Navy Department must have been in the face 
of this situation. Naval officers are not patent lawyers ; I doubt very 
much if they know what patents are. They were waited upon by 
the Marconi Co., who said "You infringe our patents." They 
were waited upon by the International Co., who said " You infringe 
our patents." . They were waited upon by us, and we said " You in- 
fringe our patents." The De Forest and Armstrong people also 
waited upon them, and said " You infringe our patents." And they 
did ; they infringed the patents of all five of those interests. 

So that the situation, as Mr. Vreeland has said, was so intricate, 
so absolutely and utterly intricate, that I do not see how it possibly 
could have been straightened out. 

It became intricate largely because of the peculiar situation under- 
lying this art when it had its inception; and that was, that we all 
thought that wireless had a much greater field than it turned out to 
have. It was looked upon as a very wonderful thing, an improve- 
ment on the cablets, a probable substitute for cables. Naturally, very 
many men entered the field and began to do experimental, work and 
make inventions, for which a very great number of patents were se- 
cured. To mention only two names, I believe that Mr. Fessenden has 
secured upward of 100 patents and Mr. Shoemaker has obtained, 
perhaps 60 patents. So that in this small art, which does not amount 
to very much, we have an unusually large number of patents. Con- 
sequently when a device is finally perfected, it is found to embody 



382 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OP RADIO COMMUNICATIOH. 

not the patents and inventions of one man, but generally the patents 
and inventions of a large number of men. Ai\nien I say that the art 
is small, I mean that it does not amount to very much compared to 
many other industries, such as the talking machine business for ex- 
ample. I doubt if the entire value of the entire wireless industry in 
this coimtry, including all the naval stations, all the privately owned 
commercial stations, all the amateur stations, and all the factories 
employed for manufacturing wii-eless apparatus, is as large as a 
single year's output, for instance, of the Victor Talking Machine Co., 
to mention only one concern of many engaged in the phonograph 
business. 

I want to say a word also as to what I know about what the Navy 
has done in the development of inventions within my own experience 
or knowledge. Of course, we all know the extent to which armor- 
plate has been developed by the steel companies in cooperation with 
the Navy. I know, myself, through professional connections, that 
the E. W. Bliss Co., of Brooklyn, N. Y., cooperating with the Navy 
Department, has been able to increase the range of the automobile 
torpedo in 20 years from 2,000 yards to 8,000 yards. The public 
prints tell us of the magnificent work of the Navy Department, co- 
operating with the General Electric Co., in the development of the 
electric drive for battleships, and I have no doubt that many hun- 
dreds of other inventions have been developed in the same way. I 
know that the Navy Department has cooperated with the Sperry Co., 
Mr. Sperry being a personal friend of mine, in the development of 
the gyroscopic compass, range finders, and other special types of ap- 
paratus used in the Navy. I know that the Navy Department has 
cooperated with the Western Electric Co. in the development of in- 
ventions. Admiral Fiske was at one time a client of mine ; he is an 
inventor of prominence and I know that through his cooperation with 
the Western Electric Co., a great deal of experimental development 
was done for the Navy's use. So that I think the gentlemen who are 
opposing the bill on the ground that the Navy Department will not 
develop mventions are probably of the belief that the development is 
to be undertaken by the department alone and they may hot be 
aware of the fact that the practice of the Navy is to develop inven- 
tions in cooperation with the large concerns, to which I have referred, 
and whose facilities for the purpose are the finest in the world. 

Before closing I want to I'efer to the question put by Mr. Ed- 
monds to Mr. Vreeland, namely, whether the assignment of a patent 
to the Ignited States does not in fact open the monopoly to any one. 
I am frank to say that I know of no case where that question has 
ever been judiciously answered. But I should say that since the 
Ignited States Goveniment has the unquestioned right of ownerehip 
in property generally, I can see no i-eason why its right of owner- 
ship should not extend to the particular kind of pmperty that is rep- 
resented by a patent, with all the rights that gti> with it, including 
the right to prevent infringements of its property, just as it may 
prevent trespass on its lands, wharves, docks, and buildings. If it is 
the desire of the patentee to give the public the right to unrestricted 
use of the patent, that is done, not by assiOTment to tht^ Omernment, 
but by a dedication to the public. This has lieen done in a number 
of instances where patentees have been suflRcientlv inrtuenv*t\l 1>y mo- 



GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 383 

tives of autruisin and public spiiit to forego their own possible profit 
for the general good. 

I thank you very much for hearing me. 

The Chairman. Capt. Todd, the committee will now hear you. 

ADDITIONAL STATEMENT OF CAPT. D. W. TODD, DIKECTOE NAVAL 

COMMUNICATIONS. 

Capt. Todd. I have not much to say, Mr. Chairman; I can finish 
what I have to say in 10 minutes. 

There are a few points in connection with the bill that have been 
covered in a way which might leave a false impression in the minds 
of the committee. I do not w^ant to go into details, but to bring out 
the principal points. 

I will follow the division of the different kinds of stations that have 
been made by some of the witnesses — the amateur station, the ship- 
to-shore station, and the high-power station. 

In the first place, the bill has nothing to do with patents, about 
which you have heard a great deal. It has nothing to do wdth manu- 
facturing in itself. If there is anything in the bill that seems to indi- 
cate that a manufacturer may not test his apparatus to the limit, that 
means that there is a defect in the bill which should be corrected. 

The bill has nothing to do with development. The market would 
be just the same as it is at present, unless there is a possibility of a 
vast multiplicity of stations. At the present time we have reached 
our practical limit of ship-to-shore stations and are close to the limit 
for nigh-power stations. 

The number of high-power stations needed by commerce and by 
the Government increases faster than the art. Of course, without 
this proposed legislation, should there be a multiplicity of stations, 
there would be more opportunity for the manufacturers to sell their 
wares. Present indications are that there can be no multiplicity of 
stations for overland or overseas work. 

The Navy must continue to buy new sets for the shore stations, so 
as to keep up to date all the time. The Navy must still buy sets for 
its ships and keep replacing them as the art advances. 

The merchant marine must still have its sets. The amateur must 
still get parts of sets and put them together, and have his home sta- 
tion. 

As to the amateurs, I am glad they have been stirred up about the 
bill, because it has helped them to clear their own minds and has 
taught all of us how very difficult it would be for them to agree 
among themselves — extremely difficult. 

I have been told that they have tried since these hearings to get 
together, with very poor success. 

Mr. Greene. May I say a word just there? There was only a lim- 
ited number of amateurs here, and of course you could not expect 
these men to undertake to agree for men whom they could not confer 
with, unless they had had a wireless apparatus available, so that they 
could confer with them. They were not able to confer with the large 
number of amateurs who did not come here ; they had a few men rep- 
resenting them here, and there was some difference of opinion among 
them. 

But from the men that I have been conversing with, I did not find 
any great lack of unanimity or agreement on the bill. They were 



384 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

largely against it, and some of them very fiercely against it; and 
some of them went away because they had it explained to them, so 
that they were satisfied ; others that had not had it explained were 
not very well satisfied: and then, after they had had it explained, 
they were not very well satisfied ; and then they said that they could 
not undertake to subscribe to an agreement without conferring with 
some of the vast number of men engaged in the radio art : it would 
have been ridiculous for them to have undertaken to bind other 
people without conferring with them ; they could not do it. 

Capt. Todd. The point 1 was trying to bring out is, that it is just as 
well that we did not try in the beginning to incorporate in this bill 
anything that would please the entire number of amateurs; but I 
have every confidence that the great majority of them will be satis- 
fied with the provisions of any bill which will be acceptable to your 
committee, as any such bill will surely recognize them and their needs. 

Mr. (jkeene. They do not know what this committee is going to do, 
and we do not ours(»lves know what it is going to do; it has not been 
decided yet what this committee will do. 

Capt. Todd. From the earnestness with which the amateurs talked^ 
I think it probable that you will pay considerable attention to them. 

The second lot of stations is the ship-to-shore stations. The present 
status is that there are only five of those, if I am not mistaken, within 
the continental limits of the United States that we do not own. Of 
those five, the owner of two only have appeared here, the United Fruit 
Co. The owners of the others have not opposed the bill. 

The Chairman. Who owns the other three stations? 

Capt. Todd. The International Radio Co. 

Mr. Greene. Have you not bought any part of their apparatus ? 

Capt. Todd. No; not that in their stations. It is not for sale — 
except their patents. 

Mr. Greene. You have bought their patents? 

C\*ipt. Todd. Xo, sir. I do not know about patents, but I do know 
that they are trying to sell their patents to the Navy Department. 

The ship-to-shore station business, then, is practically in the hands 
of the Navy, and I am thoroughly convinced that it will continue to 
be so. because there is not enough money in it for private interests; 
Ave have maintained that again and again, and we believe it more 
everv time we sav it. 

There is one point about ship-to-shore work that has not been 
clearly brought out: That is, that the ship-to-shore work is conducted 
according to an international agreement and covewd by the inter- 
national convention signed in London in 1012. The act of 1012 was 
origially based on the Berlin convention. It was the hope at that 
time that the United States would ratify the Berlin convention and 
join the great family of nations in getting the most effective regula- 
tions for doing the ship-to-shore w(u*k, so that the needs of commerce 
would be served, no matter what coast a ship might be on, and life at 
sea might be safe. 

Before Congress passed that bill the provisions of the London con- 
ference were cabled over here : so that any changes from the Berlin 
convention might be incorporated in the bill. 

All of this talk about operating on one or two wave lengths — 300 
or 600 — is beside the question, since, by the ratification of the Lon- 
clon convention, it became the law of the land, and must await a 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 385 

coming international conference, which was scheduled for Washing- 
ton last year and will follow the treaty of peace in about a year, un- 
doubtedly. Of course it is quite possible for one nation to denounce 
the convention, and then after a space of time, leave the society of 
other nations and handle radio the way it pleases; but that is not 
practictible. 

I will just touch on the question of interference: Considering all 
of the sad things that have been said about the inefficiency of naval 
operators and the tendency of naval officers to reach out, perhaps I 
am taking a chance in saying that I have had the administration of 
cable censorship, in addition to my duties in connection with radio 
communication. There is one cablegram that passed through our 
hands that saved the Government $7,000,000. That paid for all the 
expenses of the censorship • for the entire war many, many times 
over. And it justified the cable censorship in itself. 

In addition to that there is no way of telling how many schemes 
of German agents and enemy plans were upset by the cable censor- 
ship. That is a very intangible thing, and we will never know just 
how many transports and cargo ships we have saved from enemy 
submarines. We know that we did accomplish some very interesting 
things. 

The thought I am tr3^ing to bring out is this: If you do not pass 
some legislation which will make ship-to-shore work safer by putting 
further limits on amateur operation, which become necessary on 
account of the increased efficiency of apparatur. and the advance of 
the art ; and if you do not concentrate in one authority the operation 
of all coast stations and take care of the question of interference in 
every way possible there is always the chance of the station which 
is trying to save life at sea being interfered with. There is always 
that chance; and the loss of a single ship, with her cargo and her 
crew, due to some cause that was not unavoidable, some point which 
inight have been covered by legislation — even that alone would be a 
justification for some action by Congress in this matter. Some imme- 
diate congressional action is also necessary in the line of licensing 
all receiving stations, otherwise all radio traffic will continue to be 
public property. 

The Navy Department has been, possibly, a little on the defensive 
before this committee. It should be understood that it is the duty 
of somebody to advise the Government on all matters connected with 
it. The department of the Government which should advise Con- 
gress, or the (jovernment generally, on radio matters is that depart- 
ment which has the greatest operating experience. It is not the 
Patent Office that should do it ; it is not the department that licenses 
stations; nor is it the Post Office Department, which is interested in 
connnunications in general. The department to which radio com- 
munication is a very practical thing, a vital necessity, and which has, 
from the very nature of things, an interest in progress in the art and 
knows most about it, should be the department whose opinion should 
be most valuable in framing new legislation, and may be expected to 
be first in sounding an alarm when new legislation is necessary. 

With regard to high-power stations, I will say that there are, out- 
side of those owned by the Government and those on United States 
soiL only three high-power stations in the world. Two of them are 
British Marconi, and one of them is Canadian Marconi. 



386 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

On our own soil, we have five high-power stations. Four of them 
are Marconi stations and one is Tuckerton. Of the three high-power 
stations that are not on American soil, two are the original Marconi 
high-power stations, Clifden and Glace Bay, with apparatus that I 
am sure even the Marconi Co. admits is obsolete; in fact, they have 
said it was obsolete, and they have said it was withdrawn from their 
latest stations, New Brunswick and Marion, and replaced by later 
apparatus, which they call the " time spark." The efficiency of that, 
as compared with the continuous wave apparatus which the Navy 
Department has been using for some time — ^under patents which we 
have purchased, so that we would be sure to have it without any 
argument — all radio engineers would say that any comparison be- 
tween the time-spark apparatus and the Navy apparatus would be 
veiy much in favor of the naval apparatus, and that the other is out 
of date already, before it has had a good chance to do any real work. 

On the Pacific coast, however, between Honolulu and the California 
coast, those Marconi stations have apparatus earlier than the " time 
spark," similar to those of the original stations I spoke of, which is 
very much out of date ; and when they operate, they disrupt not only 
all the stations receiving on the island of Oahu, but the station on 
the California coast sometimes stops high-power communication 
along the entire coast. 

That is the high-power transmitter which some witness has said 
had been removed from New Brunswick and from Marion as being; 
obsolete ; they are still in operation on the Pacific coast, or would be 
if we had not silenced them for a while. The act of 1912 does not 
cover their case. All United States high-power stations use Ameri- 
can-developed and American-built transmitters, except Marconi, 
which uses English type and English-built transmitters. 

1 was sorry to hear a gentleman representing the Chamber of Com- 
merce of Honolulu oppose this bill, because we need absolute control 
in the Hawaiian Islands. They are our key to the Pacific; their 
strategic value can not l)e overestimated ; and there is nothing more 
abhorrent to our ideas than to find three high-power stations on one 
little island in the Pacific Ocean, especially when one of them is 
equipped, confessedly, with an out-of-date transmitter. If we should 
obtain the Kahuku Station, we should probably not operate that sta- 
tion at all with its present outfit. We could handle much more work 
without it than with it. 

Of course, the answer is that other people could make it work ; and 
the gentleman from Honolulu says there is no such thing as inter- 
ference there, because he gets his dispatcher there every day. The 
business of the entire Hawaiian Islands is small, and the two high- 
power circuits, plus the cable service, can handle all the business 
naturally in a day; and the radio business certainly can be handled 
by two stations keeping quiet while the other is working, taking turns, 
in other words. That is not a proper use of facilities ; that is exactly 
what we wish to avoid by putting all of these stations under one con- 
trol, and by keeping all stations equipped with apparatus combining 
power and efficiency. 

As to the shutting off of private messages, that was entirely de- 
pendent upon the congested conditions, and we relieved the situation 
as much as we could by handling Government business by high- 
power stations. The messages they would send could be read in 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF BAMO COMMUNICAKON . 387 

liermany, which would have been a very great menace ; and that had 
to be stopped. By agreement of all the departments interested, we 
had to do that. As a result there was further congestion on the 
Pacific cable, which had its traffic enormously increased on account 
of the war. The shutting down of private messages was an absolute 
necessity and not an arbitrary Government measure. 

There is one final thing I should like to say about the next inter- 
national conference. I have shown you how few high-power stations 
tliere are that are not Government controlled. Norway, Italy, France, 
Japan, and Germany all have their high-power stations in their own 
hands. No other nation has any high-power stations except Great 
Britain and ourselves. I have no doubt but that the next international 
conference will internationalize all high-power stations; and it would 
)je a 'wonderful thing if, by the passage of this bill, we could be in a 
strong position for that conference, by being prepared in advance 
with stations equal or superior in equipment to any in the world ; and 
I want to say very emphatically that one of the most important things 
which must in time be accomplished by a bill similar to this will be the 
abs^>lute prevention of the building of foreign-owned or forei^- 
controlled stations on American territory anywhere for the extension 
of foreign systems to our shores. Since it has been shown in the past 
that this thing is possible, that it has been done, it should be absolutely 
and positively prevented for the future. 

I thank you, gentlemen. 

Mr. Nally. Mr. Chairman, may I have just one minute to make a 
statement? 

The Chairman. Is there anybody else to be heard on behalf of the 
Navy Department ? 

Capt. Todd. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Then vou mav make vour brief statement now, 
Mr. Nally. 

ADDITIONAL STATEMENT OF ME. E. J. NALLY, VICE PEESIDENT 
AND OENEEAL MANAGEE MAECONI WIEEIiESS TELEGEAPH 
& TELEPHONE GO. 

Mr. Nally. I merely wanted to ask, fii-st, if Messrs. Vreeland and 
Dyer would not, in the interest of truth, change their testimony and 
relieve the Marconi Co. of the charge of infringing the heterodyne 
and the Vreeland improvements? Because we do not use the un- 
damped wave; we use the damped wave, and consequently we have 
not utilized the heterodyne improvement, and therefore have not 
utilized the Vreeland improvement. 

I also want to say, in passing, that while I will not argue with Capt. 
Todd that the equipment of the Japanese Marconi circuit is the latest 
thing, yet it is true that it is doing to-day very, very effective work, 
or was up to the time the Navy took it over ; and we think, in the hands 
f)f (»ur ti'ained men it could continue to do very effective work. We 
think if we could continue to work it now we could very greatly 
relieve the present congestion on the Pacific coast, where it now takes 
seven days to send a message to Japan. 

Mr. Dyer. Mr. Chairman, in reference to Mr. Nally s statement, I 
made no charge of infringement in my statement. I merely attempted 
to explain what patents were used in the apparatijs which I referred 
to as the modern high-power receiver with undamped waves. Of 



388 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF BADIO COMMUNICATION. 

(•(nirse, if the Marconi Co. does not use that, then it does not infringe 
the ])atents. 

Mr. Greene. Mr. Chairman, I have a number of letters and a num- 
ber of documents that have been sent to me in connection with this 
hearing that I should like to have inserted in the record. 

The Chairman. Very well; we can go over them later and have 
them inserted. 

Representative Lufkin. Mr. Chairman and members of the com- 
mittee, I am not here to either favor or oppose this bill. I am not 
familiar enough with the details of the proposed legislation to do 
this at the present time. But I do want to call the attention of the 
committee to the views of the thousands of amateur radio operators 
in this country as expressed in a very interesting and remarkable 
letter which I have just received from a boy residing in my coirgres- 
sional district, who is one of these amateurs. 

I ask permission of the conmiittee to print his letter in the records 
of the hearings : 

[Copy.] 

Essex, Mass.. Dcvcmhcr .9, 10 li^. 
Conjrressnian W. W. Li'fkin, 

HouMc of RcprcscntativcH, ^^(^>ihinffton. I). (\ 

Dear Sir: As a radio amateur I am writiniJ: you a protest a^iui^st the Alex- 
ander bill (H. R. 13159). whicli may proliibit amateur wireless. I umlerstand 
tliat this l>ill provides tliat tlie Navy sliall talve ovei* all radio stations, and it 
entirely ijrnores the amateur. This means that we will not be allowed to 
operate our stations aptin. 

I wish to brinj; out some of the points in favor of the amateur. When the 
United States entere<l the war the Army and Navy were in great need of 
trained operators. The result was that thousands of cmr best radio amateurs 
enlisted their services for our I'nited States. ^Most of these men needed but 
little training? in radio to assume active duty. It would have been impossible 
for the Army or the Navy to train men in the short time that they would be 
required for active duty. 

There are at present many former radio amateurs in the service of our coun- 
try. When they are discharged from the service they will want to reoi)en 
their radio stations. If they can not, do you think they will think the same of 
our Government as they did before we entered the war? 

The present hijrh stage of development of radio conmmnication is largely 
due to discoveries made by radio amateurs. One of the greatest of these is 
the regenerative receiver invented by Edwin H. Armstrong, now captain in the 
Vnited States Army. This system is used in every naval station of the United 
States, and has more than doubled the distance over which a station can oi)er- 
ate. Another great invention is that of the wireless controlled torpedo, by 
.John Hays Hannnond. jr. The Navy recently purchased his invention. At the 
time it was being tested and developed Mr. Hannnond was an amateur. 

Many high governmental positions are now held by men who were radio ama- 
teurs before the war. ^lany of the amateur stations have <*ost th(» owners 
a considerable sum of money. If we are closed up for good, what are we 
to do with our apparatus, which we worked hard to get? Probably the Oov- 
ernment would not care to purchase our apparatus, because theirs is designed in 
various units, so that stations for the same system will be alike in constructi<m 
and operation. 

Perhai^s yru remember it was due to an amateur that spies wert^ detected at 
Say vi lie, N. Y.. and Tuekerton. N. J., statitms that transmitttnl messiiges to Oor- 
many before we entered the war. This amateur recorded these messages on 
j^honogi-aph records, which he handed over to the Tnite^l States authorities, and 
they found that they were not like the messages which were pas^eil by the 
United States censor. 

Naval radio experts will admit that amateur radio telegraphy can be carrie«1 
on without interfering with naval stations. Before we entered the war. the 
amateurs formed a relay league, and by our organization v.e were able to tnins- 



GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 389 

» 

init niessajres from coast to coast or from the Gulf to the Canadian boundary 
witliout interfering? with stations operated by the (lOvernment. 

The amateurs have slaved towns and cities threatened by fire and floods when 
all othef telejrraphic communications were cut off from the outside world. The 
amateurs always tried to ol)ey the Ipws of radio communication of the United 
States. In case there were some that were iicnorant of th.e law, they were in- 
formed by tiie more advanced amateurs. These are only a few of the reasons 
why the amateur should be allowed to reopen his station. I think that action 
on this bill should be delayed until such time as the radio amateurs who are now 
in the service of their country — and some do not even know of the existence of 
The bill — shall have been given an opportunity to be heard. 

Trustinj^: that you will do all in your power in the cause of the amateurs of 
the United States, I remain. 
Very truly, yours, 

Carl G. Rtcker. 

The Chairi^^vn. Gentlemen, the hearings are noAv closed. 
(Thereupon, at 6 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned.) 



APPENDIX. 



(The chairman submitted the following letters from the executive depart- 
ments of the Government for the record : ) 

X Department of Commerce, 

Office of the Secretary, 

Washington, Deceniher 10, 1918. 

Sir: I have received your letter of the 4th instant, inclosing a copy of bill 
H. R. 13149 to further regulate radio communication, and requesting that I give 
your committee my views as to whether or not it would be advisable to enact 
the .same into law. You state that the public hearings on the bill are to com- 
mence on the 12th instant, and you state that you would like to have my views 
on the bill by that time. 

In reply, it appears to me that the essential features of the bill are : 

1. The purchase by the Government of all coast commercial radio telegraphic 
stations and permanent Government ownership (sees. 2, 8). 

2. The permanent operation by the Navy Department of all commercial- 
coast radio stations (sec. 9) involving permanent naval control of all commer- 
cial-radio conununication between the land and ships at sea as well as con- 
trol of communication between the United States and other countries through 
Government ownership and operation of high-powered stations at American 
terminals. 

.S. The prohibition of private or corporate-radio activities (sec. 3). 

This department regards Government ownership and operation of commer- 
cial-radio service as necessary and inevitable and is convinced that, one de- 
partment of the Government should have full control .of the entire matter ex- 
k*ept as it may delegate to other departments minor fieids of control and opera- 
tion. The Commerce Department, I think, has done fairly well in carrying 
out in ordinary times of i)eace the purposes of Congress in establishing a limited 
system of wireless rejflilation. but as you are aware, during the period of the 
war. the operjitions of the Department of Commerce have properly and neces- 
sarilj' been subordinated to military exigencies requiring full control by the 
Navy Department. 

In war tmes the Navy Department should unquestionably be supreme and un- 
disputed in this field. Since we entered the war the Navy Department has 
developed a large personnel and the administrative machinery, and it has ac- 
cordingly an organization ready for Government ow^nership, if Government 
ownership is to come. Furthermore, radio communication is essentially the 
means of communication at sea and between ships and the shore, so the Navy 
at all times necessarily has a large interest in its highest development and 
orderly operation. 

If the two fundamental principles. Government ownership of all agencies of 
radio communication and the operation of those agencies by the Navy Depart- 
ment, commend themselves to the judgment of your committee, I am quite 



390 GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATION. 

sure that in all administrative details you would be disposed to defer to the 
judgment of tliat department. For this reason, an expression of opinion on 
my part concerning the mere administrative details of the measure seems un- 
necessary. Tlie measure, liowever. as a wliole has my approval. 
Respectfully, 

William C. Ri?dfield, 

Secretary. 
Hon. J. W. Alkxaxder, 

Chairman Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisherws, 
House of Rcprcitcntati'ves, Washington, D. C. 



Treasury Department, 

Office of the Secretary, 
Washington, Dccvmher 11, lUlS. 

The Chairman Committee on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries, 

House oj Representatives. 

i5iR: I am in receipt of your letter of December 5, 1918, inclosing copy of 
bill, H. R. 13159, " to further regulate radio communication,' and requesting 
that the committee be given the views of this department as to whether or not 
it will be advisable to enact the bill into law. 

This bill, providing for Government ownership and operation of all radio 
stations on land engaged in commercial business, has the unqualified approval 
of this department. It is not desired, however, that this approval of Govern- 
ment ownership in this specific instance shall be taken to indicate in any degree 
whatever the views of this department concerning the general principle of Gov- 
ernment ownership of public utilities other than radio communication. 

The peculiar property associated with radio signals, whereby such signals 
traverse space in all directions and register their effect on all receiving appara- 
tus within range, would quickly result in confusion and very materially reduce 
service which mariners may justly expect of this valuable discovery, were sta- 
tions permitted to operate without adequate Government regulation of radio 
traffic. 

The vast increase in our merchant marine that is now under way will bring 
about a corresponding increase in the volume of business handled by radio along 
our shores, and unless efficient Government control of radio traffic is provided 
for, increased volume of business will be accompanied by an increase in inter- 
ference between stations both ashore and afloat that will render the handling 
of this increased volume of business a very difficult task. 

Experience has shown, and the principles approved by the International Radio 
Telegraphic Convention indicate, that competition for business between rival 
coastal stations in inimical to the efficient development of reliable communica- 
tion between ship and shore. The monopoly by one system of the coastal radio 
traffic of the country is essential to the control of radiotelegraphic communica- 
tion required to give the best service. Such monopoly has been attempted In 
the United States by at least one commercial concern, but, due to meager reve- 
nues from land stations, it has been found impracticable to maintain in opera- 
tion the chain of stations necessary to the success of such a monopoly. 

It is believed that the few companies owning conuuerc al radio stations will 
welcome this opportunity to dispose of their property for a just compensation 
and to quit the field of commercial radiotelegraphy, ia which, after 18 years 
of effort, they have learned that the successful conduct of radio traffic and the 
financial return necessary to gve life to the enterprise require -a monopoly of 
the radio communication and traffic afloat and ashore, which they have been 
powerless to construct. 

It -is considered that the Government of the United States is the only agency 
by which is feasible the necessary monopoly of land stations for commercial 
traffic under one administrative head. The Government can maintain such 
stations and can guarantee efficient service to the people of the country at 
large at reasonable rates and to vessels at sea \Wtli certainty and dispatch. 
Should the bill become a law, the Government will be in a i)Osition whereby it 
can issue orders and regulations that w 11 make i)ossible the handling without 
confusion of the maximum amount of radio business along the shores of the 
United States, and particularly within certain congested areas. This orderly 
control of traffic along our shores, guaranteeing as it does the prompt and 
reliable response to distress calls in time of disaster at sea, is viewed by this 



GOtTERN'MENT CONTROL OF RADIO COMMUNICATIOISF. 391 

department as a measure of insuranee tliat our merehaut marine may rightly 
demand of tlie Government. 

Since the outbreak of the war the Navy Department has been handling in a 
very efficient manner all radio traffic between ship and shore in the United 
States, as well as all transoceanic radio traffic to or from the Unted States. 
It has built up an establishment for radiotelegraphy that can supply operators 
and apparatus to carry out efficiently all the obligations to be imposed upon 
that department by the contemplate<l legislation. 

The present time is considered opportune for the enactment of the legisla- 
tion emboded in the attached bill. At present no land stations are in oi>era- 
tion under private control, so that no change in the existing status of affairs 
I)ertaiinng to radio traffic will result from Government purchase and operation 
of radio stations for conunercial traffic should this b 11 become a law prior to 
the proclamation of peace. 

In view of tlie great benefits that will actcrue to the maritime interests of 
the United States and to the public at large through the passage of this bill, its 
si)eedy enactment into law In the form submitted is earnestly recommended. 
Respectfully, 

W. G. McAdoo, 

^ccretarj/. 

Department of Labor, 

Office of the Secretary, 
Washington, December Jl, J 918. 
Hon. J. W. Alexander, M. C, 

Chairman Committee on the Merchant Marine and Fishoics, 

Ho-use of Rep^'esentativcs. 

My Dear Mr. Alexander: I have received your letter of the 5th instant, 
inclosing a copy of the bill H. R. 13159 to further regulate ra<lio communication, 
and a.sking for an expression of my views as to whether or not it would be 
advisable to enact said bill into law. 

When the bill H. R. 19350 was under consideration, that being a bill having a 
sinailar object in view, I wrote you, under date of January 9, 1917, as follows : 

" I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 23d ultimo 
in which you call attention to the bill (H. R. 19350) to regulate radio com- 
munication, a copy of which you inclose. You ask that I give your committee 
the benefit of such suggestions as I may care to make regarding the desirability 
of enacting the bill into law. 

"Taking the bill as a whole. I regard it as a very desirable measure — one 
which is very nmch needed and which will go a long way toward reraiedying 
evils and difficulties which the experience so far had with radio communica- 
tion has demonstrated to exist and to require some well-devised and compre- 
hensive action on the part of the Federal Legislature. 

" When an interdepartmental committee was formed something over a year 
ago with the purpose of having a thorough study made of the problems which 
have arisen and which are likely to arise in connection with the recently de- 
veloped method of electrical communication, and when selecting a representa- 
tive of this department to serve upon that committee I expressed the opinion 
that, in view of the fact that radio communication can not be confined to 
definite channels to which specific title could be conveyed to individuals 
cr corporations, it ought to be owned and controlled by the Government. 
Soon after the interdepartmental committee met and organized It requested 
the heads of the various administrative departments to express a definite 
opinion as to whether the committee in carrying on its work should have m 
view the actual acquirement of all existing radio stations, or how far in that 
direction the bill which it was proposed to draw sliould go. To this communi- 
cjition I replied by restating the opinion which I had expressed at the outset 
In detailing a representative. The report submitted to this department by its 
representative after the committee had completed its labors, the results of which 
constitute the draft of the proposed measure now under consideration by your 
connnittee, shows that the said representative and those serving upon the com- 
mittee as representatives of the military branches advocated throughout the 
fleliberations of that Ixxly the ownership by the Government of the wireless 
telegraph : that the drafted measure, like all i>roductlons of Its kind, in the 
fonuulation of which a number of Individuals take part, Is to a considerable . 
extent in a number of its features the outcome of compromises between the- 



392 GOVERNMENT CONTBOL OF RADIO COMMUNIOAXIOK. 

meinbers of tlie coiniuittee who entertaiueil various views concerning this 
subject. 

" I have had no reason to change my mind on this very important ques- 
tion. Upon reading the report of tlie department's representative and con- 
sidering the various provisions of the measure produced in the manner above 
described by the interdepartmental committee, I am more tlian ever convinced 
that Government ownership is the real solution of our radio communication 
problems. I observe that there are many provisions in the drafted bill thac 
tend toward ultimate Government ownership; but I wish to direct attention 
to two provisions in pr.rticular, one of which T think logically constitutes an 
argument in favor of going further in that direction than the bill at present 
does, and the other of which I think should be materially changed in order to 
hasten the ownership by the Government of at least that part of the wireless 
telegraph business which it is of the greatest importance that the Government 
^hall absolutely control, for reasons of a military, neutrality, and commercial 
nature. 

"It is provided in the next to the last paragraph of section 5 (p. 6, line 16, to 
p. 7, line 2) that in the Philippine Islands, in the Canal Zone, in certain United 
States territory in the West India Islands, and in a geographically defined sec- 
tion of the Pacific Ocean, no private radio station shall hereafter be operated 
on land or on a permanently moored vessel. It is understood, of course, that 
this step toward Government monopoly can readily be "taken because the field 
involved has been occupied quite completely with Government stations and 
that stations controlled as private enterprises have not been erected within such 
territory. But it seems to me that if it is sound upon principle to contend that 
the Government should have a monopoly of wireless telegraph in these par- 
ticular sections, by the same token that system of electrical communication 
should be a Government monopoly elsewhere. 

" Section 6 of the proposed measure (p. 7, lines 7-13), I think, would be very 
much Improved if changed to read substantially as follows : 

'• * Sec. 6. That after three months from the passage of this act the vrovern- 
ment. through the Navy Department, shall have authority to acquire by condem- 
nation proceedings any radio station now in operation in the United States.* 

" Commending to the very careful consideration of your committee the sugges- 
tion made above, I beg to subscribe myself." 

Since the above-quoted letter was written I have had no reason to change 
my views with regard to the Government ownership of radio communication. 
Very truly, yours, 

W. B. Wilson, Secretary, - 



Department of State, 
M-nshi'tigUm, Decemher /^, J 918. 

The honorable Joshua W. Alexander, 

House of Representatives. 

Sir : I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of Deceml)er 
5. 1918. inclosing a copy of H. R. 13159, Sixty-fifth Congress, second session, 
entitled "A bill to further regulate radio communication," and requesting my 
views as to the advisability of enacting the bill into a law. 

In reply I beg to inform you that I am in accord with the policy of Govern- 
ment ownership of radio stations in the United States and its possessions, and. 
in my opinion, it will be to the advantage of the United States in its inter- 
national relations to have enacted into a law some bill such as H. R. 13159, pro- 
viding for the acquisition by the Government of radio stations on land or on 
permanently moored vessels within the jurisdiction of the United States or 
any of its possessions, and for the regulation and censorship of all radio sta- 
tions and radio apparatus within the jurisdiction of the United States in time 
of war or national emergency. 

I would suggest that, in the definition of the term '* T»erson " on |»j\ge 2, line 7, 
the word ** individuals " be added immediately after the wonl ** includes." so 
that this definition will read ** The term ' persons * includes* individuals, partner- 
ships, corporations, and as.sociations." 

I note that section 2 provides "That the President shall rtMpdsltlon ;uul take 
permanent possession of, for the use of the (