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Full text of "Hearings regarding communism in the United States Government. Hearings before the Committee on Un-American Activities, House of Representatives, Eighty-first Congress, second session"



 


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HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNISM IN THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT— PART 1 

-^ HEARINGS ^' '/ ^ 

// '-- ^ 'J^V- BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

* ^ EIGHTY-FIRST CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



APRIL 20, 21, 25, 29; MAY 4, 5, AND 6, 1950; JULY 30 
AND AUGUST 7, 1948; AND JUNE 8, 1950 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 





UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
G7052 WASHINGTON : 195* 

I 






COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives 

JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman 

FRANCIS B. WALTER, Pennsylvania RICHARD M. NIXON, California 

BURR P. HARRISON, Virginia FRANCIS CASE, South Dakota 

JOHN MCSWEBNEY, Ohio HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois 

MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York 

Frank S. Tavennek, jr.. Counsel 
LoDis J. ROSSELL, Senior Investigator 
JOHN W. CAREINGTON, Clcik Of Committee 
Benjamin Mandel, Director of Research 

n 



CONTENTS 



April 20, 1950: Pag« 

Testimony of Kenneth McConnell 1697 

April 21, 1950: 

Testimony of — 

Merwin Scott Todd 1707 

Kenneth McConnell (resumed) 1716 

Merwin Scott Todd (resumed) 1717 

Elizabeth Winston Todd 1718 

April 25, 1950: 

Testimony of Solomon Adler 1725 

April 29, 1950: 

Testimony of Howard Allen Bridgman 1753 

May 4, 1950: ' 

Testimony of William W. Remington 1777 

May 5, 1950: 

Testimony of William W. Remington (resumed) 1821 

May 6, 1950: 

Testimony of Elizabeth T. Bentley 1849 

July 30, 1948 : 

Testimony of William W. Remington 1865 

August 7, 1948 : 

Testimony of Robbins W. Barstow and William W. Remington 1893 

June 8, 1950 : 

Testimony of — 

William Wheeler Hinckley 1925 

Margaret C. Hinckley 1936 

m 



HEAEINGS EEGAEDINCt COMMUNISM IN THE 
UNITED STATES GOVEKNMENT— PART 1 



THURSDAY, APRIL 20, 1950 

United States House or Eepresentatives 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. C. 

EXECUTIVE SESSION 

The subcommittee of one met, pursuant to call, at 12 : 05 p. m. in 
room 226, Old House Office Building, Washington, D, C, Hon. John 
S.Wood (chairman) presiding. 

Committee member present : Hon. John S. Wood, chairman. 

Staff members present: Louis J. Russell, senior investigator, and 
Donald T. Appell, investigator. 

Mr. Wood. Let the record show that this hearing is before a sub- 
committee composed of Mr. Wood only. 

Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this subcommittee 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF KENNETH McCONNELL 

Mr. Russell. Will you state your full name ? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Kenneth McConnell. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever used any other name ? 

Mr. McConnell. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. What was that other name ? 

Mr. McConnell. Kenneth Malcombre, M-a-1-c-o-m-b-r-e. 

Mr. Russell. What is your present address ? 

Mr. McConnell. Weaverville, N. C. That is adequate. 

Mr. Russell. Wlien and where were you born ? 

Mr. McConnell. Huntington, Long Island, 1898. 

Mr. Russell. Wliat is your present occupation ? 

Mr. McConnell. I am a farmer. 

Mr. Russell. What occupations have you followed in the past ? 

Mr. McConnell. Have you time enough for me to list them ? 

Mr. Russell. Briefly. 

Mr. McConnell. I have had varied occupations. 

Mr. Russell. Would you enumerate the principal occupations which 
you have followed ? 

Mr. McConnell. I would like to stop right here. You want some 
particular statement? I will make it. I don't want to go through 
my occupations. 

1697 



1698 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Russell. It is only for preliminary purposes — background. 

Mr. McCoNNELL. I am a seaman, and probably one of the finest 
jumping-horse trainers in America, and I want that on the record. I 
was at one time a professional Communist. That is what you want ; 
is it? 

Mr. Russell. No. I will ask you that specifically. 

Mr. McCoNNELL. You will? All right. 

Mr. Wood. Hoav long have you been training horses ? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Since I was 7 years old. We had them when I 
was a boy. I am a jumping trainer. I have got a 3-year-old filly, 
Your Honor; she weighs at this point right now about 800 pounds, 
between 800 and 900 pounds. If I had the time and the patience which 
it requires to finish a jumping filly, I will bet you that I could make 
her the best jumper in the South. She is a beauty; tough, stubborn, 
but jump; but jump. Her mama was a gaited mare and her daddy 
was a jumping horse. 

Mr. Wood. I will talk to you some more about that after the 
hearing. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party ^ 

Mr. McCoNNELL. I have. 

Mr. Russell. For how many years? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. I was a member of the Communist Party from 
the spring of 1935 until midsummer of 1939. 

Mr. Russell. You are not now a member of the Comnmnist Party ? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. I am not now a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever held any official positions in the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Clarify the request. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever served as an organizer in the Com- 
numist Party? 

Mr, McCoNNELL. I have. 

Mr. Russell, In what localities ? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Knoxville, Chapel Hill, Chattanooga, and Nor- 
folk. 

Mr. Russell. By whom were you appointed organizer in those 
various localities? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Nobody appoints a Communist organizer. 

Mr. Russell. Were you assigned as a Communist Party organizer 
by anyone? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. This is a question which has to be answered in 
the following manner: Communist organizers rise out of the ranks of 
the Communist Party. They rise on the basis of — "ability" is the 
word I could use, but it is not the correct word. It is a more precise 
meaning. "Ability" is sufficient. 

Mr. Russell. At the time you were a Communist Party organizer 
in Tennessee, were you associated with any other organizations? 

Mr. McConnell. 'All of the top-rank party organizers are inevit- 
ably associated with other organizations. 

Mr, Russell, Were you associated with an organization known as 
Workers Education? 

Mr, McConnell. No. 

INIr. Russell. Were you at one time associated with the Workers 
Alliance? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1699 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Yes; I was. 

Mr. Russell. That was an organization dominated and controlled 

by the Communist Party ; was it not ? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. I will not answer your question "Yes" or "No." I 
will answer your question as follows : The Workers Alliance was, in 
my opinion, an apparatus which was constructed by the Communist 
Party, intended to be used as a pressure organization during the days 
of depression. That answers your question ; does it not ? 

Mr. Russell. Yes. While you were a Communist Party organizer 
in the State of Tennessee, did the Connnunist Party devote any par- 
ticular attention to the infiltration of the Tennessee Valley Authority? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. There were two areas of concentration during the 
time that I was a Communist Party organizer in Knoxville. The areas 
were the TVA and ALCOA, the aluminimi-manufacturing corpora- 
tion. 

Mr. Appell. Did the Communist Party also concentrate effort upon 
the organization of the textile workers ? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Yes ; they did. However, this must be understood : 
The main areas of concentration at that time by the Communist Party 
were TVA, primarily because it represented an opportunity to operate 
in the area of social living: and ALCOA because it was the major 
commercial enterprise in the area ; and incidentally in textile, because 
at that time textile was being organized in the south. 

Mr. Appell. While you were not a member, were you acquainted 
with the existence of an organization in Knoxville, Tenn., known as 
Workers Education ? 

Mr. MgConnell. I was acquainted with its existence. I had no con- 
tact with it. 

Mr. Appell. Evidence in the possesion of the committee indicates 
that within Knoxville, Tenn., individuals by the names of Horace 
Bryan, Howard Allen Bridgman, Merwin Todd, Bernard Borah, and 
William Remington were associated with this organization known as 
Workers Education. I would like to individually ask you what knowl- 
edge you have of Communist Party affiliation of these people. 

I will first show you a picture of Horace Bryan and ask if you recog- 
nize this individual and if you have any knowledge of his activities in 
Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. This is a Communist. I know and recognize him 
as a party member. I never saw any document which would definitely 
and conclusively show that he was a party member. What I say is out 
of my memory, 

Mr. Appell. You identify him as being a member of the Communist 
Party to your knowledge? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. Because you met and associated with him as a Com- 
munist ? 

Mr. McConnell. As a Communist ; that is correct. 

Mr. Appkll. Within Knoxville, Tenn., who, at the time you were 
there, issued the Communist Party cards and collected the Communist 
Party dues; do you recall that? 

]\Ir. McConnell. It is my opinion that prior to my arrival in Knox- 
ville Communist Party dues and records were attended to by Mr. 
Mervin Todd. 

(Discussion off the record. ) 



1700 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Appell. Do you know of any Communist activities of Horace 
Bryan in Knoxville, Tenn ? 

Mr. INIcCoNXELL. Horace Bryan was active in the Workers Alliance. 
The Workers Alliance was not a Communist apparatus save that it 
gave an opportunity for the party to exercise its influence in the unem- 
ployed masses. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Appell. ]Mr. McConneell, you have identified Horace Bryan as 
being actively connected with an organization in Knoxville, Tenn., 
known as the Workers Alliance. Was the Workers Alliance an organ- 
ization whose activities and operations were controlled by members 
of the Communist Party in Knoxville, Tenn ? 

Mr. McCoxxELL. Shall we use the word "directed"? Other than 
that, I will accept your statement as being correct. 

Mr. Appell. Can you expand on the direction which the Communist 
Party exercised over the Workers Alliance in Knoxville, Tenn., during 
the time you were there ? 

Mr. McCoxxELL. I can say this in answer to that question: The 
Communist Party, in all of my experience as an organizer, had com- 
plete control of the apparatus of the Workers Alliance, and, insofar 
as it utilized that apparatus as a means of social pressure, there was 
never any restriction or any restraint on the part of the Workers 
Alliance. In other words, the Communist Party could use the Work- 
ers Alliance as it chose within, roughly speaking, the meaning and 
intent of the apparatus itself : it could expand it. 

Mr. Appell. Another individual who has been identified as con- 
nected with the Workers Education in Knoxville is an individual 
by the name of Howard Allen Bridgman. I will show you a photo- 
graph and ask if you recognize this individual as Howard Allen Bridg- 
man and your knowledge of him ? 

Mr. McCoxxELL. That is Howard Bridgman. I have known him 
for many years. Howard Bridgman is and was, to my knowledge, a 
sincere believer in the need for adult education in the South. I can- 
not say and I do not believe that Howard Bridgman was a Communist 
Party member. He was a teacher. Any ancillary activities are 
beyond my knowledge. 

Mr. Appell. Another individual who has been identified as con- 
nected with Workers Education in Knoxville is Bernard Borah. Are 
you acquainted with an individual by the name of Bernard Borah? 

]\Ir. ]\IcCoNXELL. Briefly. I knew his wife well. I knew his wife 
better than I knew him. 

Mr. Appell. Is his wife Muriel Borah ? 

Mr. INIcCoxxELL. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know her to be a member of the Communist 
Party in Knoxville. Tenn. ? 

Mr. McCoxxELL. Yes. 

Mr. Appell. During the time that you were there, was she the secre- 
tary of the Communist Party in Knoxville, Tenn.? 

Mr. McCoxxELL. She was the secretary, if I am not mistaken, of 
the group that was formed at Norris, Tenn. : that is up by the dam. 

Mr. Appell. Did you also know Muriel Borah to be an organizer 
for the textile workers' organizing committee in Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. McCoxxELL. She had some contacts with it. I don't know 
enough about it to give any evidence about it. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1701 

Mr. Appeix. Do yon know whether or not her hnsband, Bernard 
Borah, was a member of the Communist Party in Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. He was. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Appell. Another individual who has been identified as being 
a member of Workers Education in Knoxville, Tenn., is Merwin S. 
Todd, who was generally known, I believe, by the nickname of Pat? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Pat. 

Mr. Appell. I have a ]ihotograph here 

Mr. McConnell. Show it to me. 

Mr. Appell (continuing). And I will ask you if that is the indi- 
vidual known to you as Pat Todd ? 

Mr. McConnell. That is a good enough photograph of him. It 
looks just like I like to think of him. That is him. That is Pat. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Merwin Todd or Pat Tod to be a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. McConnell. I do. 

Mr. Appell. Was ]\Ierwin Todd an organizer for the Communist 
Part}^ in Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. McConnell. He was. 

Mr. Appell. Was Merwin Todd also an organizer for the CIO tex- 
tile organizing committee? 

Mr. McConnell. He was. 

Mr. Appell. Did you succeed Merwin Todd as organizer for the 
Communist Party in Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. McConnell. You are ahead of yourself. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. McConnell, It is my opinion — and here is a very crucial point, 
Mr. Chairman, which you must listen to very carefully. Miss, you 
may stop writing now. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. McConnell. This I want to say, and I wish to have it embodied 
in the record of this proceeding. I am an American from an ancient 
American family. There was a time, a period, in my life when I was 
a convinced Communist, when I devoted my talents, such as they are, 
to the furtherance of the program of the Communist Party. Errors, 
within this period, arose of commission and omission in my own life. 
I am still the American I was born, now convinced that the organic 
construction of democratic society as we understand it in America 
best provides us with the method and the means of correcting the short- 
comings of our society ; and I think still, as I did when I was a Com- 
munist, that they are many. I give testimonj' before this committee 
because I believe that the extension of the American dream of civiliza- 
tion can provide the American people, from wherever they come, 
with the means to create a life which is in keeping with the nature of 
our great land. 

Thank you. 

Now I will go back. I want this on the record. I hadn't finished. 

Mr. Wood. I believe the question was about Todd. 

Mr. McConnell. I think it is premature. I will answer it. 

(The pending question was read, as follows: "Did you succeed 
Merwin Todd as organizer for the Communist Party in Knoxville, 
Tenn.?") 



1702 COMMUNISM m THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr, Appell. Strike the question. 

Another person who has been identified, as connected with the organ- 
ization known as Workers Education in Knoxville, Tenn., is William 
Remington. I show you two photographs and ask if you can identify 
the individual shown in these photographs as a person you knew in 
Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. McCoNNErx. Just a moment, Miss. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. McCoNNELL. I can. 

Mr. Appell. That individual you knew as William Remington ? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. I will ask you now if you, as an organizer for the 
Communist Party in Knoxville, Tenn., knew William Remington to 
be a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. McConnell. I did. 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever see William Remington's Communist 
Party card? 

Mr. McConnell. To my know^ledge I cannot answer that other 
than by saying "No." 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever discuss with William Remington the 
operations or actions which he should take as a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. McConnell. That is a leading question, and I can answer it in 
this wise, if this will satisfy you. I found it necessary, in the course 
of my operations in Knoxville, to call Remington's attention to the 
fact that his demeanor and behavior was uncommunistic ; that is to 
say, that he did not conduct himself as befitted a member of the party, 
mainly because, at that time, of the rough manner in which he dressed. 
Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Wood. I understood from your statement a while ago that you 
did discuss with Remington Communist Party discipline and Com- 
munist Party activities? 

Mr. McConnell. That is right. This is a psychic thing. Only a 
psychoanalyst can go into this for you. I will give you facts. 

Mr. Russell. When you spoke to ^Ir. Remington about his manner 
of dressing, did you speak to him from your own personal observa- 
tion or from complaints by other members of tlie Communist Party ? 

Mr. McConnell. Nobody had to make any complaints to me. I 
found him unkempt. I am talking about the time when I M'as a 
convinced Conununist, and if I was a convinced Communist then I 
am speaking out of my own mind. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. McConnell, in addition to this conversation with 
Remington, did you ever attend any meetings of the Communist 
Party, meetings restricted solely to members of the Communist Party, 
at which meetings William Remington was present? 

Mr. McConnell. I can only ansAver that question equivocally. I 
only remember one meeting of the Communist Party, at which I was 
the copresider, when Remington was present, and this may have been 
what is known in the parlance of the party as a fraction meeting, 
which would be a small number of party members meeting from a 
trade-union group, the purpose of the meeting being to discuss Com- 
munist Party tactics, discuss and decide upon direct courses of action 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1703 

for the members of the party in that particular trade-union group. 
This was shortly after I went to Knoxville from Chapel Hill. 

Mr. Appell. And you went to Knoxville from Chapel Hill in June 
of 1937? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. About that time. 

Mr. Wood. Do you recall where that meeting was held, Mr. McCon- 
nell? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Mr. Chairman, that meeting was held in one of 
the open parks in Chattanooga. If the names of the parks were read 
to me I could identify it ; otherwise, I could not. It was held in an 
open place as a means of avoiding suspicion. 

Mr. Appell. Was it in Chattanooga or Knoxville? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Knoxville. Did I say Chattanooga? 

Mr. Appell. Yes. 

Mr. McConnell. Knoxville is what I meant. 

Mr. Appell. William Remington went to Knoxville from Dart- 
mouth, where he was a student? 

Mr. McConnell. Was it Dartmouth or Harvard? 

Mr. Appell. Dartmouth. He returned to Dartmouth aft«r being 
at Knoxville 1 year. Was his return to Dartmouth ever a question 
discussed within the party? 

]\Ir. McConnell. Yes ; this question was discuSvSed in the party, and 
it was pointed out to him by party members that the Communist 
Party needed educated people as well as workers. This was one of 
the arguments used to induce him to return to college. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know who instructed or advised Remington to 
take this course of action ? 

Mr. McConnell. Nobody could so instruct him, because at that 
time he was under the minimum discipline of the party, but he could 
be advised, and it would be a collective advice, mine, Todd's, Winston's, 
and whoever else might have been present at the meeting. 

Mr. Appell. You saj^ Winston ? 

Mr. McConnell. I mean Mrs. Todd. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Todd ? 

Mr. McConnell. Yes. It comes to my mind at this point that she 
was somewhat vocal in expressing her opinion that Remington should 
return to college. 

Mr. Appell. Did she express it to him ? 

Mr. McConnell. In open meeting ; to him, of course, but to others 
also. 

Mr. Appell. You have referred to this person as Mrs. Todd. Is the 
Mrs. Todd that you refer to your former wife? 

Mr. jSIcConnell. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. I will ask a question off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall the circumstances under which you first 
met William Remington? 

Mr. McConnell. I met him with Pat Todd at their joint rooming 
house. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall where this rooming house was located ? 

Mr. ]\IcConnell. I don't recall the name of the street. It was on 
top of a hill in Knoxville. 

ISIr. Russell. If you saw this particular residence, would you be 
able to identify it as the place where Remington and Todd resided ? 



1704 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. McCoNNELLr. Yes, I would. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know the present Mrs. Todd to have been a 
member of the Communist Party in Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. What is her first name? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Elizabeth. 

Mr. Appell. Elizabeth Winston Todd. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions ? 

Mr. Appell. Mr. McConnell, I have before me the names of indi- 
viduals wlio were employed by the TVA in Knoxville or Norris, Tenn., 
who the committee has inf onnation might have been in the Communist 
Party in Knoxville during the time you were there. I would like to 
read these names to you and ask you if you can identify any of them 
as people whom you knew to be in the Communist Party in Knoxville. 
The first is John M. Frantz. 

Mr. McCoxxELL. Have you a photograph of him? 

Mr. Appell. I do not. His wife was Dorothy Remine Frantz. 

Mr. McCoxNELL. Frantz was a party member. He didn't originate 
in Tennessee. He came from Alabama. I know him to have been a 
Communist Party member. 

Mr. Appell. Mabel Abercrombie ? 

Mr. McCoxnell. A party member. 

Mr. Appell. Francis Martin ? 

Mr. McCoNXELL. Have you a photograph of both of them? 

Mr. AppelTj. David Stone Martin was an artist and Francis Martin 
was employed by the TVA. 

Mr. McCoxxELL. One I can positively identify. The other I cannot, 
without seeing a photograph. One definitely was. The other probably 
was, but I can't state definitely. Can you differentiate them a little 
more ? Francis Martin, did he ever work at a cooperative ? 

Mr. Appell. The only distinction I can make for you is that David 
Stone Martin was an artist. 

Mr. McCoxxELL. Francis Martin was a Communist Party member. 
David Stone Martin probably was, but this is an opinion. 

Mr. Appell. John C. Borden, Jr., who was employed at one time 
at the cooperative store of TVA at Norris ? 

Mr. McCoxxELL. He was a pai'ty member. 

Mr. Appell. Kenneth Cameron? 

Mr. McCoxxELL. I don't seem to remember this. Do you have a 
picture ? 

Mr. Appell. No. 

Mr. McCoxxELL. I am sorry; I don't remember him. 

Mr. Appell. When you left Knoxville, do you know who succeeded 
you as organizer for the Communist Party ? 

Mr. McCoxxELL. Pat Todd. 

Mr. Appell. This is the same Pat Todd in whose residence you met 
William Remington ? 

Mr. McCoxxELL. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. At that time were Remington and Todd actually shar- 
ing the same room in this rooming house ? 

Mr. McCoxxELL. They were when I first came to Knoxville. 
Whether they continued to do so, I don't laiow. They were when I 
first came there. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1705 

Mr. Appell,. They were not in separate rooms in the same rooming 
house ? 

Mr, McCoNNELL. No. They lived in the same room. In fact, I 
think they slept in the same bed. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall when you first came to Knoxville? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. I believe it was the first week in June, 1937. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Henry Hart, who was born in India? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Yes; I know Henry Hart, and I think Henry 
Hai-t became a member of the party durino; the time I was in Knox- 
ville. I think that he was j)robably signed into the party by the 
AYoman who became Mrs. Todd. I think she recruited him, as the 
phrase goes. You see, there was at that time a unit of the party which 
was known as the TVA unit, which would be those members of the 
party who were working for TVA. I personally never met with that 
unit at any time, but I feel convinced that Hart was a member of the 
party. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Appell. At this time, INIr. Chairman, I have no further ques- 
tions to ask Mr. McConnell, except that I would like to have Mr. Mc- 
Connell remain with the committee until after we have questioned the 
Todds tomorrow, for the purpose of possibly confronting the Todds 
with Mr. McConnell, and he has agreed to do that if the committee 
finds it necessary. 

Mr. Wood. Do I understand you are including in the record the pic- 
tures Mr. McConnell identified ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes; I would like to ask that the photographs ex- 
hibited to Mr. McConnell be made exhibits in this record. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. They will be admitted. 

(The photographs above referred to are filed herewith.) 

Mr. Wood. We will suspend until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. 

(Thereupon, at 1:10 p. m. on Thursday, April 20, 1950, a recess 
was taken until Friday, April 21, 1950, at 10 a. m.) 



HEAKINGS EEGAKDING COMMUNISM IN THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT— PART 1 



FRIDAY, APRIL 21, 1950 

United States House of Representatives, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. C. 
executive session 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10 : 30 a. m., in room 226, 
Old House Office Building, Washington, D. C, Hon. John S, Wood 
(chairman) presiding. 

Connnittee members present: Representatives John S. Wood and 
John McSweeney [arriving as indicated]. 

Staff members present : Louis J. Russell, senior investigator ; and 
Donald T. Appell, investigator. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order. 

Let the record show that this hearing is being conducted by a sub- 
committee consisting of Mr. Wood and Mr. McSweeney. Mr. Mc- 
Sweeney will be here presently. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, the witness this morning is Mr. Mer- 
Nvin S. Todd. Will you stand and be sworn, please, Mr. Todd? 

Mr. Wood. You solemnly swear the testimony you will give this 
subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Todd. I do, sir. 



'5 



TESTIMONY OF MEKWIN SCOTT TODD, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, BELLA S. ABZUG 

Mr. Russell. Will you state your full name ? 

Mr. Todd. Merwin Scott Todd. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Todd, are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Todd. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Russell. Will counsel identify herself, please? 

Mrs. Abzug. My name is Bella S. Abzug. My offices are at 205 West 
Thirty-fourth Street, New York City 1, N. Y. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Todd, what is your present address ? 

Mr. Todd. 264 West Twelfth Street, New York 14, N. Y. 

Mr. Russell. What is your present occupation ? 

Mr. Todd. Engineering assistant. 

Mr. Russell. By what company are you employed ? 

Mr. Todd. C. D. Wood Electric Co., Glendale, Long Island. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Todd, you are appearing here by virtue of a sub- 
pena which was served upon you on April 12, 1950, by Investigator 
Alvin Stokes of this committee ? 

Mr. Todd. That is right. 

1707 



1708 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Russell. And that subpena called for your appearance on April 
19 and was continued from April 19 to April 21 by telegram which was 
sent to you by the Committee on Un-American Activities? 

Mr. Todd. That is correct. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been employed by the United States 
Government ? 

Mr. Todd. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Russell. In what capacities ? 

Mr. Todd. Clerical work. 

Mr. Russell. By what agency or agencies were you employed ? 

Mr. Todd. Tennessee Valley Authority. 

j\Ir. Russell. Wlien were you employed by the Tennessee Valley 
Authority ? 

Mr. Todd. A good many years ago. I don't remember the precise 
dates. 

Mr. Russell. Approximately when? 

Mr. Todd. Roughly, 1935 to 1937. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been employed by any other agency of 
the United States Government? 

Mr. Todd. I think not. 

Mr. Wood. Over what period of years did your employment with 
the Tennessee Valley Authority extend ? 

Mr. Todd. Roughly 2 years, and roughly 15 years ago. 

Mr. Russell. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Todd. I was born May 22, 1911. 

Mr. Russell, Where? 

Mr. Todd, New York City, Seventy-second Street, 

Mr. RussELi^. Mr. Todd, have you even been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Todd. I don't wish to answer that question on the grounds that 
would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood, In that connection, Mr, Todd, I might call your attention 
to the fact that — never mind ; you have counsel to advise you about that, 

Mrs. Abzug. If I may interrupt, I think a question of that kind is 
highly improper, considering the activities of this committee, which 
have been to investigate Communist activities, and the results of which 
investigation have frequently resulted in criminal action of one kind 
or another. I feel a question of that kind is therefore totally out of 
order, and violates the rights that my client has. 

Mr. Wood. You may advise your client at any time. You are at 
liberty to confer with your client with reference to any question that 
is asked. However, I call your attention to the fact that the Supreme 
Court seems to have settled that question recently. 

Mrs. Abzug. It has not settled the question of the right of a witness 
to refuse to answer questions of that kind. 

Mr. Russell. Were you a member of the Communist Party while you 
were employed by the Tennessee Valley Authority ? 

Mr. Todd. I give the same answer. 

Mr. Wood. I want to get that answer definitely. You, decline to 
answer the question ; is that your answer? 

IMr. Todd. On the ground that it would tend, in my judgment, sir 

Mr. Wood. In your judgment it would tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Todd, Yes, 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1709 

Mr. Wood. And on that ground you decline to answer the question ? 

Mr. Todd. Correct. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Todd, you feel it would incriminate you to answer 
that you were a member of the Communist Party 13 years ago ? 

Mr. Todd. In my judgment, sir. 

Mr. Russell. On what basis? Mr. Todd, you were called here to 
assist this committee in an investigation which it is presently conduct- 
ing. The committee has no intention of bringing any criminal charges 
against you based upon any answer which you might give to the ques- 
tion which I have asked you. The purpose of this hearing is to ask 
you in particular regarding certain persons with whom you were asso- 
ciated, one of whom is now employed by the United States Government. 

Mrs. Abzug. If I may 

Mr. Russell. I am talking to Mr. Todd as one American citizen to 
another. 

Mrs. Abzug. May I have the privilege of conferring with my client ? 

Mr. Wood. Yes, indeed. 

(Mrs. Abzug confers with Witness Todd.) 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Todd, isn't it true that you told your present 
employer that you were at one time a member of the Communist Party, 
after you had teen served with a subpena by this committee, or shortly 
prior thereto ? 

Mr. Todd. I refuse to answer on the grounds already stated. 

Mr. Russell. On the ground that it might tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Todd. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, I suggest Mr. Appell conduct the 
interrogation from now on. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. 

Mr. Appell. Where did you reside when you were in Knoxville, 
Tenn? 

Mr. Wood. It was years ago and I don't recall street addresses. 

Mr. Appell. Would you recall street addresses if your memory was 
refreshed ? 

Mr. Todd. I might. 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever reside at 933 Broadway, Knoxville, Tenn ? 

Mr. Todd. I can't give an honest "yes" or "no" answer. I don't 
recall. 

Mr. Appell. When you were in Knoxville, Tenn., did you room with 
anyone employed by the Tennessee Valley Authority ? 

Mr. Todd. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Wliom did you room with ? 

Mr. Todd. I am reluctant to given an answer which might be inter- 
preted as showing unw^illingness on my part, but my feeling about 
that question is the same, frankly, as the others. 

Mr. Appell. You refuse to answer on the ground your answer might 
tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Todd. That is correct. 

Mr. Wood. You mean to say in your opinion to divulge the name of 
your roommate while you were employed by the Tennessee Valley 
Authority in Knoxville, Tenn., 13 or 15 years ago would tend to in- 
criminate you ? 

Mr. Todd. I roomed with many people during this period. 

67052— 50— pt. 1 2 



1710 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Wood. Name some of them. 

Mr. Todd. In my judgment it would tend to incriminate me, and I 
would prefer not to answer that question, sir. 

Mr. Wood. It is not a question of what you prefer to do ; it is a ques- 
tion of what you do or decline to do. 

Mr. Todd. I decline. 

Mr. Wood. You decline? 

Mr. Todd. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. "VVliile you were in Knoxville, Term., did you own a 
motorcycle ? 

Mr. toDD. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Appell. Where did you purchase that motorcycle and from 
whom? 

Mr. Todd. There I will have to say I can't recall. It was purchased 
so long ago I really don't remember. 

Mr. Appell. Did you sell that motorcycle before you left Knox- 
v^ille, Tenn. 

Mr. Todd. My recollection is that I did not. I can't categorically 
say "yes" or "no." 

Mr. Appell. Did you happen to sell that motorcycle to an individual 
by the name of Horace Bryan ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the foregoing ground. 

Mr. Appell. You decline to answer on the ground it might tend to 
incriminate you to have sold a motorcycle to Horace Bryan? 

Mr. Todd. I am declining to answer the question on the ground in 
my judgment it would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell, Did you sell the motorcycle to anyone beside Horace 
Bryan ? 

Mr. Todd. Shall I give the same answer every time, Mr. Wood, or 
shall I say "the same answer" ? 

Mrs. Abzug. Give the full answer. 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer on the ground it would tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did you room with a fellow employed at TVA by the 
name of William Remington ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me, in my judgment. 

Mr. Appell. At the time you were in Knoxville, Tenn., did you func- 
tion as an organizer for the Communist Party? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me, in my judgment. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know William Remington as a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Todd, were you a member of an organization exist- 
ing in Knoxville, Tenn., by the name of Workers Education? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Todd, did the Communist Party at Knoxville, 
Tenn., have a post-office box through which the Communist Party 
received mail and literature ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1711 

Mr. Appell. Were you ever a member of a post-office box with 
Horace Bryan, Howard Bridgman, and Bernard Borah '? 

Mr. Todd. I dechne to answer that question on the ground that in 
my judgment it would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Appell, when you say a "member" do you mean did 
he ever participate in receiving mail in a box jointly with the persons 
you named ? 

Mr. Appell. That he was a coapplicant for that post-office box from 
the Post Office Department, 

Mr. Wood. Let me ask it in that way, then. Mr. Todd, did you ever 
join with the parties whose names have just been given by Mr. Appell, 
or any one of them or more than one of them, in an application for a 
post-office box through which you received mail? 

Mr. Todd. That is how I understood Mr. Appell's question when I 
gave the answer that is on the record, sir. 

Mr. Wood. And the answer still stands ? 

Mr. Todd. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appfxl. Did William Remington receive mail through this post- 
office box ? 

Mr. ToDD. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Howard Allen Bridgman ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Howard Allen Bridgman to be a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer on the ground it would tend to incrimi- 
nate me. i 

Mr. Appell. I asked you if you sold a motorcycle to Horace Bryan, 
which you refused to answer on the ground that your answer miglit 
tend to incriminate you. I now ask you if you know an individual 
by the name of Horace Bryan ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer on the ground it would tend to in- 
criminate me, in my judgment. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Horace Bryan to be a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it v/ould 
tend to incriminate me, in my judgment. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Todd, do you know an individual by the name of 
Paul Crouch? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did Paul Crouch succeed you as organizer for the 
Communist Party in Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me, to the best of my judgment. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know an individual by the name of Bernard 
Borah? 

Mr. Todd. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Bernard Borah to be a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 



1712 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Cliairman, Bernard Borah is now deceased; he 
died in service, and I suggest that is the reason the witness Avill say 
he knew Bernard Borah. 

Mr. Todd, did you l^now Bernard Borah's wife, Muriel Borah? 

Mr. Todd. May I speak to counsel? 

Mr. Appell. Certainly. 

Mr. Wood. Yes, indeed. 

(Witness Todd confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Wood. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Ml-. Wood. Back on the record. The simple question is being 
asked, whether or not you know the wife of the late Bernard Borah. 

(Witness Todd confers with his counsel.) 

(Representative McSweeney enters hearing room.) 

Mr. Appell. Read the question. 

(The question referred to was read by the reporter, as follows: 
''Mr. Todd, did you know Bernard Borah's wife, Muriel Borah?") 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answ^er that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me, and I would like to make this interpolation : 
There is no facetiousness in my attitude or in my refusal to answer 
these questions. I have been suspended from my job. I support two 
children. I am very much concerned, very much concerned, about 
this hearing. There is no facetiousness in my attitude. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, if he has been suspended from his job, 
this committee had nothing to do with that. We have brought this 
witness here, as I have indicated, to assist us in an investigation of a 
Government employee. He has declined to cooperate and has declined 
to answer all questions thus far that are pertinent to our inquiry, on 
the ground of possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Todd. I hope the committee had nothing to do with it. I want 
to point out for 7 years I have been associated with this job, and my 
employer has known me and my family very well ; and very suddenly, 
in much confusion, he suspends me. 

Mr. Russell. I asked if you had told your employer you had been a 
member of the Communist Party, and you declined to answer. If 
you told your employer you had been a member of the Communist 
Party, when did you tell him ? Did you tell him at the time you were 
employed ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer on the ground it would tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. If you told him and he employed you, and then he sus- 
pended you, I don't see how you could hold this committee responsible 
in any way for your suspension. 

Mr. Todd. In my judgment the answer to the question you have 
asked had literally nothing to do with my being suspended. 

Mr. Russell. You still decline to answer whether or not you told 
your employer you had been a member of the Communist Party at one 
time? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer on the ground it would tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Todd 



Mr. Todd. Just a moment, please. 
(Witness Todd confers with his counsel.) 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1713 

Mr. McSwEENEY, May I ask you what is the relationship of the 
young lady '^ 

Mr. Wood. Counsel. The record will disclose that Mr. McSweeney, 
another member of the committee, has just entered the hearing room 
at this jDoint, and that constitutes the total of the subcommittee 
appointed to hear this testimony. 

In order that Mr. McSweeney may be advised of what has trans- 
pired, so that he may be guided in any questions he might wish to ask, 
the witness has been interrogated concerning his knowledge of certain 
individuals at the time he was employed by the Tennessee Valley 
Authority approximately 13 or 15 years ago at Knoxville, Tenn. ; and 
questions have been asked the witness as to where he lived at that time, 
which he says he does not remember, and as to whether certain indi- 
viduals roomed with him while he lived there, which he has declined 
to answer on the ground of possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, I might add the witness has also 
declined to answer, on the ground of self-incrimination, questions 
regarding the sale of a motorcycle. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Francis Martin during the time you 
were employed by the Tennessee Valley Authority ? 

Mr. ToDD. I decline to answer on the ground in my judgment it 
Avoidd tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Mabel Abercrombie ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer on the ground it would tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Francis Martin as a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer on the ground it would tend to in- 
criminate me, in my judgment. * 

Mr. Appell. Did you know his brother, David Stone Martin ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Todd, I can show you sworn testimony of David 
Stone Martin in which he admitted he was a member of the Communist 
Party during the time he was there, and David Stone Martin has never 
been prosecuted for admitting he was a member of the Communist 
Party. I can show you his sworn testimony. 

Mr. Todd. It is my opinion that there is legislation in contemplation 
that might subject him to prosecution. 

Mr. Wood. In that connection, Mr. Todd, I think if you will consult 
with your counsel she will tell you no legislation can be passed that 
would be retroactive so as to prosecute you. 

(Witness Todd confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Wood. I would like to ask you one further question at this time : 
Do your answers to all the questions asked you by counsel before Mr. 
]SIcSweeney came in here still stand ? 

Mr. Todd. Yes, sir. I would like to withdraw one answer, and that 
is in regard to Mr. Borah. I would like to say I decline to answer 
whether or not I know Mr. Borah. I would like to withdraw that 
answer on the ground it would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Todd, do you believe in the overthrow of the 
United States Government by force and violence ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 



1714 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. RussEU.. Have you ever advocated that the United States Gov- 
ernment be overthrown by force and violence '. 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the gi'ound it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever attend any meetings of the Communist 
Party where it was advocated that this Government be overthrown 
by force and violence? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

JVIr. Russell. Did you ever receive mail through any post-office box 
in Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr, Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Todd, during the time that you were in Knox- 
ville, Tenn., were you an organizer for the CIO textile organizing 
committee ? 

Mr. Todd. Could I consult with counsel ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes. 

(Witness Todd confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground that in 
my judgment it would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. During the time that you were organizing with the 
CIO 

Mr. Todd. I have already declined to answer the question. 

Mr. Appell. I am going to ask you something else along the same 
line. Were you assisted in this organization by William Remington? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. During this time did you attempt, while recruiting 
workers into the CIO Texile Union, to also recruit workers into the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer the question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me, in my judgment. 

Mr. Appell. Isn't it true that on several occasions the workers took 
offense and attacked you for recruiting members into the Communist 
Party? 

( Witness Todd confers with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions for the 
time being. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. McSweeney, do you desire to ask the witness any 
questions ? 

Mr. McSweeney. May I ask under Avhat circumstances INIr. Todd 
was brought in ? Was he subpenaed ? 

Mr. Russell. He was subpenaed. 

Mr. Wood. We asked that question when he first began testifying, 
before you came in. His appearance is pursuant to a subpena served 
by an investigator of this connnittee to appear on April 19, and it 
was postponed by a telegram — which he admits he received — until 
today. 

Mr. INIcSwEENEY. I didn't understand Mr. Todd's statement about 
having his job taken away from him. When did that occur and under 
what circumstances ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1715 

Mr. Todd. It is in the record. Maybe the stenographer would be 
willing to read it to you. 

Mr. Wood. I don't believe the date of your suspension is in the 
record, and I think that is what Mr. McSweeney wants to know. 

Mr. Todd. Last Friday. Just a moment ; I am trying to recall this 
accurately. I am pretty sure it was last Friday, a week ago today. 

Mr. McSwEENEY. I won't bother you if it is already in the record. 

Mr. Todd. I don't know whether you were present when I said it is 
pretty serious for me, because I happen to be the father of two chil- 
dren, sir. 

Mr. Appell. I show you an issue of the Knoxville Journal, Knox- 
ville, Tenn., Saturday, May 29, 1937, with a banner headline: "CIO 
organizers beaten near Brookside." The organizers are listed as 
Bernard Borah, J. R. Coope, and Merwin Todd. I ask you if you are 
the Merwin Todd referred to in this article ? 

Mrs. Abzug. Has he seen the article? 

Mr. Appell. I show you the article. 

Mr. Wood. Let him have the book over there. 

(The article referred to was examined by witness Todd and his 
counsel. ) 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground that in 
my judgment it would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. You decline to answer whether or not you are the 
Merwin Tocld referred to in this article ? 

Mr. Todd. That is correct. 

Mr. Appell. May I ask you, did you ever live at 1533 Highland Ave- 
nue, Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. Todd. I do not recall. 

Mr. Wood. Do you mean that you can't recall or that you won't 
recall ? 

Mr. Todd. I can't honestly say whether I did or not; that is what 
I mean, because I do not recall. This was in the neighborhood of 
15 years ago. 

Mr. Appell. You were in Knoxville, Tenn., on May 29, 1937? 

Mr. Todd. Yes ; I think I was. 

Mr. Appell. During the time that you were in Knoxville, Tenn., 
did you read the Knoxville Journal ? 

Mr. Todd. Very seldom. 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever see this article to which I have referred ? 

Mr. Todd. As far as I can recall, I did not. 

Mr. Appell. You did not. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Todd, while you were in Knoxville — I believe you 
testified previously you were there approximately 2 years — did you 
ever know anj^ other Merwin Todd during the time you were living 
there? 

Mr. Todd. I didn't get the question, sir. 

Mr. AVood. Did you ever know anybody else having the same name 
as yours while you were living in Knoxville? 

Mr. Todd. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Wood. Did you ever know anj^one else by that name organizing 
in the textile unit of the CIO ? 

Mr. Todd, Not that I recall, sir. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Todd, did you know an individual by the name 
of Kenneth Mc Conn ell ? 



1716 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Todd. Yes ; I did. He was my wife's former husband. 

Mr. ArPELL. Did you know him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me, in my judgment. 

Mr. Appeul. Did you introduce William Remington to Mr. McCon- 
nell during the time that William Remington roomed with you in 
Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me, in my judgment, 

(AVitness Todd confers with his counsel. Mr, Appell leaves hearing 
room and returns with Mr. Kenneth McConnell.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I would like to suspend with Mr. Todd 
for a moment and call before the conmiittee Mr. Kenneth McConnell. 

]\Ir. Wood. Mr. McConnell has already been sworn before the com- 
mittee, so it will not be necessary to administer a further oath. Pro- 
ceed to ask him any questions you desire. 

TESTIMONY OF KENNETH McCONNELL— Resumed 

]Mr. Appell. ]\Ir. McConnell, do you know this gentleman sitting 
liei'e ? 

Mr. McConnell. Uli huh. 

Mr. Appei.l. Will you identify him to the committee, please? 

]\Ir. McConnell. t know him as Pat Todd. 

Mr. McSweenet. As what, please ? 

Mr. McConnell. Pat Todd. 

]\lr. INIcSweeney. What is the name given in the paper? 

Mr. Appell. Merwin Todd. 

Do vou know Mr. Todd to have been a member of the Communist 
Party"? 

]Mr. McConnell. I know him to have been a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Appell. During the time he was in Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. McConnell. Yes. 

Mr. Appeli.. Did Mr. Todd introduce you to William Remington 
in Knoxville, Tenn., in a room that they both occupied? 

Mr. McConnell. I don't know whether it was in the room or outside 
the room. He did introduce me to Remington. 

Mr. Appei>l. Mr. McConnell, you have testified previously before 
the committee that you were a member of the Communist Party in 
Knoxville, Tenn., at that time? 

Mr. McConnell. That is correct. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Todd 

Mr, Wood, Are you through with Mr. McConnell ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir. 

Mr. AA^ooD. Do you want to ask him any questions, Mr. McSweeney ? 

Mr. JNIcSwEENEY. I don't think so. 

Mr. AVooD. IVIr. Russell, do you want to ask Mr. McConnell any fur- 
ther questions ? 

]Mr. Russell. No, sir, 

Mv. AVooD. Then Mr. McConnell will retire. 

(Mr. McConnell leaves hearing room.) 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1717 

TESTIMONY OF MERWIN SCOTT TODD— Eesumed 

Mr. RussELi.. Mr. Todd, do you recognize Mr. McConnell ? 

Mr. Todd. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Was he ever known to you as a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me, in my judgment. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Todd, do you know Benjamin J. Davis? 
(Witness Todd confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Todd, I show you a Communist Party nominating 
petition executed in August of 1945, a petition of signatures for the 
candidacy of Benjamin J. Davis. I ask you to look at line 9 and 
advise the committee if you are the person who signed here as Merwin 
S. Todd? 

(Witness Todd examines document referred to and confers with his 
counsel.) 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground that in 
my judgment it would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. I would like to ask you if the signature that appears 
on this petition is your signature ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground that in 
my judgment it would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. You decline to answer that this is your handw^riting ? 

Mr. Todd. Correct. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Todd, were you ever subjected to criminal 
charges for signing that petition ? 

(Witness Todd confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the groind it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Were you ever arrested or indicted or otl^erwise 
calle,d to appear before a grand jury in the State of New Y )rk for 
signing a.nj document? 

Mr. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever appeared before a grand jui y in 'ho 
State of New York? 

Mr. Todd. No. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been arrested ? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. RussEix. Were you ever arrested in the State of Nnw York? 

Mr. Todd. I decline to answer that question on the ^jroum;] it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Todd, Mr. McConnell testified that he knew you 
as Pat Todd. Did you use the name Pat Todd in Knoxville, Tenn.'-I 

Mr. Todd. Yes, sir. I have been called Pat Todd since I was a 
child. 

Mr. Appell, Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. McSweeney, any questions? 



1718 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. McSwEENET. I have no questions. May I ask your age, Mr. 
Todd? 

Mr. Todd. 38, sir. 

Mr. McSwEENEY. And this situation arose in 1937, which is 13 years 
ago, when you were 25 years of age ? 

Mr. Todd. 13 to 15 years ago. 

Mr. McSwEENEY. You were just a young fellow 23 to 25 years of 
age. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. That is all, thank you. 

Any further witnesses? 

(Witness Merwin Scott Todd leaves hearing room, and Elizabeth 
Winston Todd enters hearing room.) 

Mr. Wood. Will you please hold up your right hand and be sworn. 
You solemnly swear the evidence you give this subcomittee shall be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Todd. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF ELIZABETH WINSTON TODD, ACCOMPANIED BY 
HER COUNSEL, BELLA S. ABZUG 

Mr. Rtjsseli.. Will you state your full name ? 

Mrs. Todd. Elizabeth Winston Todd. 

Mr. Russell. Wliat is your present address? 

Mrs. Todd. 264 West Twelfth Street, New York City. 

Mr. Russell. Mrs. Todd, you are represented by counsel, are you 
not? 

Mrs. Todd, Yes, sir. 

Mr. Russell. Will counsel please identify herself for the record? 

Mrs. Abzug. My name is Bella E. Abzug, My office is at 205 West 
Thirty- fourth Street, New York City 1, N. Y. 

Mr. Wood. The same information given you in regard to the other 
witness applies now, but I wish to say to the witness that any time you 
desire to consult with your counsel, don't hesitate a minute ; you have 
that privilege. 

Mr. Russell. When and where were you born ? 

Mrs. Todd. Asheville, N. C, August 9, 1908. 

Mr. Russell. What is your present occupation ? 

Mrs. Todd. I work in radio for Columbia Broadcasting Co. 

]\lr. Russell. In what capacity ? 

Mi's. Todd. Associate director. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that my 
answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with William Walter Remington? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that my 
answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Rus^sell. Did you ever attend a Conmiunist Party meeting 
with William Walter Remington? 

Mrs, Todd, I refuse to answer that question on the ground that my 
answer might tend to incriminate me. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1719 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever attend a meeting wliicli was also at- 
tended by other Communists where the question as to whether William 
Walter Remington should return to school was discussed ? 

Mrs. Todd. 1 refuse to answer that question on the ground that my 
answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Did any such meeting ever take place? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that the 
answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr, Russell. Did you know Bernard Borah? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that my 
answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know Howard Allen Bridgnum? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Has your husband ever been an organizer for the 
Communist Party; that is, Mervin Todd? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Horace Bryan ? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Kenneth McConnell? 

Mrs. Todd. Yes ; he was my former husband. 

Mr. Russell, Did you ever know him as Kenneth Makombe ? 

Mrs. Todd. Yes. That was his name when I was married to him. 

Mr. Russell. Was he a member of the Communist Party during tlie 
time you were married to him ? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Was he ever an organizer for the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever discuss William Walter Remington in 
his presence? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Todd, you at one time were employed by the Ten- 
nessee Valley Authority, were you not? 

Mrs. Todd. That is correct. 

Mr. Appell. During what i^eriod were you employed by the Ten- 
nessee Valley Authority? 

Mrs. Todd. In 1937. 

Mr, Appell. Do you remember approximately when you started 
your employment with the Tennessee Valley Authority ? 

Mrs. Todd. It must have been about the spring of 1937. 

Mr. Appell. Were you a member of Local 136, A. F. of L., American 
Federation of Government Employees, while you were employed at 
TVA? 

Mrs. Todd. I don't remember the local number, but I was a member 
of the Government workers' union while I was there. 

Mr. Appell. Were you also a member of that organization when 
it broke from the A. F. of L. and became the United Public Workers, 
affiliated with the CIO ? 

Mrs. Todd. That is correct. 



1720 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Appell. Will you tell the committee liow the employees of TVA 
happened to break awa}^ from the A. F. of L. local and change to the 
ClOmiion? 

Mrs. Todd, They took a vote to change to United Federal Workers. 

Mr. Appell. Was the changing from A. F. of L. to CIO ever dis- 
cussed in the Communist Party? Was that Communist Party 
strategy ? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my an- 
swer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. William Walter Remington was a member of Local 136 
of A. F. of L. Did you know him is a member of Local 136 of 
A. F. ofL.? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my an- 
swer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know that William Walter Remington was 
employed by TVA at one time ? 

Mrs, Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my an- 
swer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Mrs. Todd, do you believe in the overthrow of the 
United States Government by force and violence? 

]Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the groinid my an- 
swer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever advocated that the United States Gov- 
ernment be overthrown by force and violence? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my an- 
swer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever attended a Communist Party meeting 
where it was advocated that the Government of the United States be 
ovei-thrown by force and violence? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my an- 
swer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr, Russell. Do you believe in the Communist form of govern- 
ment ? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my an- 
swer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Dorothy G. Barber? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answei' that question on the ground my answer 
would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr, Appell. Did you know Gertrude Tyrna, T-y-r-n-a ? 

Mrs. Todd, I refuse to answer that question on the ground my answer 
would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell, Did you know Hugh W. Urban? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my answer 
would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Robert H. Slater? 

Mrs, Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my answer 
would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell, Did you know Geraldine Smith ? 

Mrs, Todd, I refuse to answer that question on the ground my answer 
would tend to incriminate me. 

Mv. Appell. Did you know Mary Carolyn Smith? 

Mrs, Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my answer 
would tend to incriminate me. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1721 

Mr. Appfxl, Did you know ISIilton V. Smith ? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my answer 
would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know M. H. Satterfield ? 

jNIrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that (|uestion on the ground my answer 
woukl tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Henry B. Schmoller ? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to ansAver that question on the ground my answer 
would tend to incriminate me. 

]Mr. Appell. Mr. Chairman, I wc-uld like to call attention to the fact 
that the thing I am doing at this time is merely reading from the mem- 
bership list, members of local 136. Some of the people whose names I 
have read are undoubtedly not members of the Communist Party, and 
the witness apparently is refusing to answer whether she knows just 
anybody whose name we bring up. I think the witness should be 
cautioned that she has to know within her mind that she might in- 
criminate herself before refusing to answer. I am merely going down 
the membership list of local 136. 

Mr. Wood. I assume the witness has competent counsel to advise her. 
If she is not so advised, I would like to advise her myself. 

(Witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Todd, In my judgment your questions are trying to connect 
this union with the Communist Party, and I think it is my duty not 
to answer questions that tend to connect me with the Communist Party. 

Mr. Appell. But the question is do you know these persons, not 
connecting the local A. F. of L. with the Communist Party, but do you 
know these persons ? Some of these persons undoubtedly you do not 
know, because I have read the names of some individuals who were 
members, but not in Knoxville. 

(Witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Todd. In my judgment it would be a mistake for me to answer 
these questions, and I stand on ni}^ right to refuse to answer. 

Mr. Appell. You do know the persons but refuse to answer ^ 

Mrs. Todd. I didn't say I did know them. I refuse to answer on the 
ground my answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Could you be incriminated as to someone you don't 
even laiow ? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer on the ground my answer may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Mabel Abercrombie ? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever room with Mabel Abercrombie? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer on the ground my answer would tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Muriel Borah? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Mabel Abercrombie as a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer on the ground my answer would tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Muriel Borah as a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 



1722 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer on the ground my answer would tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. ArPELTv. Did you room with Murial Borah ? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Benjamin J. Davis? 

Mrs. Todd. T refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appeli,. I show you a Communist nominating petition for 
Benjamin J. Davis as a councilman for the city council, city of New 
York, and ask if that is your signature on line 1 of this petition ? 

(Witness examines document referred to.) 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Is that your signature? 

Mrs. Todd. T refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. The reason I ask that question, there is a possibility it 
could be a forgery. Is that your signature? 

Mrs. Todd. I still would like to refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Appell. Would you write Elizabeth W. Todd on a piece of 
paper for the committee, please? 

Mrs. Abzug. May I ask what purpose the investigator has in mind ? 

Mr. Appeix. It would enable the committee to determine whether 
or not this a forgery. 

Mrs, Abzug. Is that within the purposes of this inquiry, to deter- 
mine whether or not a signature is a forgery? 

Mr. Wood. Whatever may be the purpose of the committee is beside 
the point. You can control your client by advising her. 

Mrs. Todd. If I have the right to refuse to sign it, I would like to 
i-efuse to sign it. 

Mr. Appell. You may refuse to sign it on the ground of self-incrim- 
ination. 

Mrs. Todd. All right. I would like to take those grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mi*s. Todd, were you a member of an organization 
existing in Knoxville, Tenn., by the name of Workers Education ? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did your husband own a motorcycle when he was in 
Knoxville, Tenn.? 

Mrs. Todd. You mean Merwin S. Todd? 

Mr. Appell. Yes. 

Mrs. Todd. Yes ; he did. 

Mr. Appell. When you left Knoxville with him, did he have the 
motorcycle with him? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did he sell it before you left Kjioxville? 

Mi-s. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it would 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did he sell that motorcycle to Horace Bryan? 

Mi-s. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my answer 
would tend to incriminate me. 



COMMUNISM IX THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1723 

Mr. Appell. Was your husband, Pat Todd, an organizer for the CIO 
while you Mere residing in Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my 
answer would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know William Remington to be an organizer 
for the CIO textile workers ? 

Mi"S. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my answer 
would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Appell. Wlien did you last see William Remington 'i 

Mrs. Todd. I refuse to answer that question on the ground my answer 
would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. Anything further? 

Mr. Appell. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Anything further, Mr. Russell ? 

Mr. Russell. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Any questions, Mr. McSweeney? 

Mr. McSweeney. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Let the witness be excused. The committee will stand 
at recess. 

(Thereupon, at 11:45 a. m. on Friday, April 21, 1950, a recess was 
taken.) 



HEAEINGS REGAEDING COMMUNISM IN THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT— PAET 1 



TUESDAY, APRIL 25, 1950 

United States House of Representaitves, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 
ON Un-American Activities, 
Washington^ D, 0. 

EXECUTIVE session 

Tlie subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10 : 30 a. m. in room 
226, Old House Office Building, Washington, D. C, Hon. John S. 
Wood (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Hon. John S. Wood. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Louis 
J. Russell, senior investigator; and Donald T. Appell, investigator. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, the witness this morning is Mr. Solo- 
mon Adler. 

Mr. Wood. Hold up your right hand, please. You solemnly swear 
the evidence you give this subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Adler. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat, sir. 

Let the record show that this investigation is being conducted be- 
fore a subcommittee composed of the chairman only, by order of the 
chairman. 

TESTIMONY OF SOLOMON ADLEE 

Mr. Russell. Will you state your full name ? 

Mr. Adler. Solomon Adler. 

Mr. Russell. What is your address? 

Mr. Adler. 2721 Dumbarton Avenue NW. 

Mr. Russell. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Adler. In Leeds, England, on August 6, 1909. 

Mr. Ru^^sell. You studied at Oxford University ? 

Mr. Adler. Correct. 

Mr. Russell. 1927 to 1930 ? 

Mr. Adler. Correct. 

Mr. Russell. You attended London School of Economics, 1930 to 
1933? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did you study there under Harold Laski ? 

Mr. Adler. Not primarily. I studied primarily under Howell Rob- 
erts, because I was a student of economics and not political science. 

1725 

67052—50 — pt. 1 3 



1726 COMMUNISM IN TH?E UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Russell. When did you come to the United States ? 

Mr. Abler. October 1933. 

Mr. Russell. As what ? 

Mr. Adler. As a travelling fellow in economics. 

Mr. Russell. Wlien did you return to England ? 

Mr. Adler. In June 1934. 

Mr. Russell. When did you again come to the United States ? 

Mr. Adler. February 1935. 

Mr. Russell. Are you a naturalized citizen of the United States? 

Mr. Adler. Yes; I am. I was naturalized in September 1940. 

Mr. Russell. In order to conserve time, I will read your employ- 
ment history. If I happen to make any errors, will you correct me 
as I go along ? 

Mr. Adler. To the best of my ability. 

Mr. Russell. February 1935 to February 1936, instructor in eco- 
nomics, Peoples Junior College, Chicago, 111. ; February 26, 1936, to 
November 30, 1936, associate economist. National Research Project, 
WPA, New York City ; December 7, 1936, to October 1, 1942, economic 
analyst. Treasury Department, Division of Monetary Research ; Octo- 
ber 1, 1942, to February 29, 1944, American representative, Chinese 
Stabilization Fund Board, on the pay roll of the Chinese Government 
in China ? 

Mr. Adler. Right. I was active representative, actually. 

Mr. Russell. March 1, 1944, reinstated in Treasury Department as 
China representative, position, Treasury Department attache. 

Mr. Adler. My actual title at that time was Treasury Department 
representative. That is a protocol point which is not substantial, but 
I might as well mention it. I think I was made attache in 1945. 

Mr. Russell. February T, 1949, to October 5, 1949, on leave without 
pay from the Treasury Department to teach at Harvard University. 

Mr. Adler. That is substantially correct. 

Mr. Russell. October 5, 1949, returned to duty at the Treasury 
Department in the Office of International Finance, Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Adler. That is correct. 

Mr. Russell. You are presently employed in the same capacity ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Except as you have made the corrections, this resume of 
your employment record is correct ? 

Mr. Adler. It is correct, and the only corrections I made were 
formal rather than substantial. 

Mr. Russell. When you first came to the United States, what studies 
did you pursue here, and at what specific places did you follow those 
studies ? 

Mr. Adler. I had a rather loose fellowship, involving the study of 
the impact of the Government on the economy. Under that act, I 
proposed to spend most of my time in Washington during that study. 
I wanted, however, to keep in contact with and to visit a number of 
academic institutions. I visited Columbia, Harvard, Chicago, and 
talked with professors there and so on. 

Mr. Russell. Wlien you first emigrated to the United States, what 
was the type and period of your first employment? 

Mr. Adler. I was an instructor in economics at a college which arose 
in Chicago during the depression. I taught there for a year. The 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1727 

teaching load was quite heavy. It was a small college and did net 
have a large number of instructors, and the teaching load was heavy. 
In my second semester I taught as many as 18 hours a week. 

Mr. Russell. From whom did you receive your position with 
Peoples Junior College, Chicago ? 

Mr. Adler. I can give you the whole background. Wlien I visited 
Chicago 

Mr. EussELL. The first time? 

Mr. Adler. Yes, in April 1934, I met a number of economists, in- 
cluding Mr. Harold Glasser, who was in this college, and he asked me 
at the time if I would be interested in a job there; they were looking 
around for an economist to teach. I said I was not sure ; I might be. 
After I returned to England he asked me again if I were interested, 
and I said "Yes." The president of the institute then wiote me a 
letter offering me the job, and I accepted. 

Mr. EussELL. Through whom did you first meet Harold Glasser ? 

Mr. Adler. Mr. Chairman, may I make a small digression here? 
I have been naturally thinking of the kind of questions you would ask 
me, and this was one of the questions I anticipated would be asked. As 
this is an executive session, I have no hesitation in mentioning the 
name. I don't say I wouldn't mention the name in an open session, 
also, but you can understand, when a person on whom no aspersion has 
been cast at all, who is quite above suspicion, has his name mentioned 
and it receives publicity, it does not help him. I have been asked this 
question before in previous interrogations, and I have answered it 
completely and frankly, and I will mention the name of the man, IVIr, 
Alvin David, whom I met in Washington early in 1934. He drove out 
to Chicago with me. I wanted to visit Chicago, and there were a num- 
ber of eminent economists I wanted to meet, such as Jacob Viner, and 
he introduced me to Mr. Harold Glasser. Do I make myself clear, 
Mr. Chairman? 

Mr. Wood. I believe so. I will interpolate to this extent: This 
committee is not seeking to cast any aspersions or smears in any way ; 
so you can feel perfectly free in this executive session to answer these 
questions as completely as you want to. 

Mr. Adler. Thank you. 

Mr. EussELL. In other words, you were introduced to Mr. Glasser 
by Mr. Alvin David ? 

Mr. Adler. That is right. 

Mr. EussELL. While you were employed at Peoples Junior College, 
did you at one time reside with the Harold Glassers? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. It was a strange city, and they had an extra bed 
and I stayed with them awhile. 

Mr. EussELL. Did you ever endorse the National Negro Congress? 

Mr. Adler. Not that I recall. 

Mr. EussELL. While you were in Chicago, particularly in 1936? 

Mr. Adler. I was in Chicago in 1935, not in 1936. 

Mr. EussELL. You were not there in 1936 ? 

Mr. Adler. Only the first month of 1936. 

Mr. EussELL. Subsequent to your employment at Peoples Junior 
College, did you become employed by the National Eesearch Project 
oftheWPA? 

Mr. Adler. That is correct. 



1728 co:mmuxism ix the uxited states goverxmext 

Mr. Russell. How did you obtain that position ? 

Mr, Adler, Again, the same statement I made about Mr. David 
applies here. In 1933 and 1934 I became quite friendly with an econo- 
mist-statistician in "Washington by the name of Dr. Clement Winston, 
and he wrote me in the late winter of 193.") or early 1936 and asked if 
I would be interested in this new project which was being set up. as 
an economist, and I said "Yes; I would be," and I received an invita- 
tion to join. I applied to join. 

Mr. Russell. "Who offered you the position? 

Mr. Adler. I can't recall. 

Mr. Russell. "Wasn't it Irving Kaplan? 

Mr. Abler. I don't recall. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall the oifer of employment being made? 

Mr. Adler. It might have been. I don't remember. 

3Ir. Russell. The records of the "WPA disclose that the offer of 
employment was made in a letter from Irving Kaplan. 

]Mr. Adler. I know him. I met him after I joined the project. 

Mr. Russell. "When did you first meet him i 

^Ir. Adler. It must have been in 1936 in Xew York. 

Mr. Russell. AMien was the last time you saw him? 

Mr. Adler. The last time I saw Irving Kaplan was in January 
1948. As I recall. I was walking down the street and I bumped into 
him and shook hands with him. 

Mr. "Wood. Here in "Washington? 

Mr. Adler. Here in "Washington. 

Mr. Russell. "When was that? 

Mr. Adler. In Januar}' 1948. The date is approximately correct. 
It might have been Februarv or late December, but it was within that 
period. 

Mr. Russell. Subsequent to your employment with the Xational 
Research project, where were you employed ? 

Mr. Adler. By the Treasury. 

Mr. Russell. How did you obtain that employment ? 

Mr. Adler. I was visiting Washington sometime in 1936 and I 
stopped in on Mr. Seltzer at the Treasury. I had happened to read 
seme speech or article of his on fiscal policies. We had a general talk 
on economics, and I asked about employment possibilities, and he 
asked my background, and I told him. He said he himself was pri- 
marily interested in the field of domestic economy, and he referred me 
to Mr. Harry "\'rhite. Mr. White talked over my background with 
me. and he sa^id if I were interested I should file an application, which 
I think I did. That is to the best of my recollection. AjkI I did not 
hear of any action on it until December 1936. when I got a letter from 
the woman in charge of personnel in the Division of Monetary Re- 
search asking me to join the Treasury. 

Mr. Russell. You are aware, no doubt, that Hariy Dexter "White 
was named as a Communist by two self-confessed Communist couriers, 
and his identification by one Wiittaker Chambers was supported by 
documentary evidence showing Mr. White's participation in espionage 
activities? 

Mr. Adler. I have only heard lately about the documents. I think 
I recollect reading something in one of the newspapers, and I must 
frankly confess I was very much astonished. 



co:M]vnjNisM ix the uxited states goverx:mext 1729 

Mr. EussELL. "Wliat were the circumstances surrounding your ap- 
pointment as American representative to the Stabilization Fund ? 

Mr. Abler. May I tell you what happened? Mr. A. Manuel Fox 
was American representative on the Stabilization Board of China, and 
he went to the States from China in January 1942, and during his 
absence — may I explain the operations? The Stabilization Board 
of China was a trinational organization under the Chinese Ministry 
of Finance. It was composed of three Chinese members, one Ameri- 
can member, and one British member. They had a rule under which 
members of each of these nationalities had to participate in decisions. 
Mr. Fox was away in "Washington from January to May 1942, and 
I was asked to act as the acting American member. Mr. Fox returned 
in May 1942. and he died of a heart failure a month later, so I was 
asked to act as his active alternate, or as the active representative, but 
I was not actually appointed as a member of the Stabilization Board 
until October 1942. 

Mr. Russell. The recommendation for your appointment was actu- 
allv made by Harry Dexter White ? 

Mr. Adler. He was the head of the Division of Monetary Research. 
I was in China all this time. 

Mr. Wood. I don't think that is a complete response to the question. 
Was the recommendation actually made by Mr. Harry Dexter White ? 

]Mr. Adler. I really don't know. It was done by cable from the 
Secretary of the Treasury, presumably, to the Minister of Finance, 
but I don't know actually what happened. 

Mr. Russell. You were on the payroll of the Cliinese Government 
at a salary of $10,000 a year? 

Mr. Adler. Correct. 

Mr. Russell. Did Harry Dexter Wliite supervise your activities 
whjle you were employed in that capacity ? 

Mr. Adler. It is a difficult thing to explain. I would like to elabo- 
rate. You see. the Stabilization Board of China was a trinational 
organization. The members were paid by the Chinese Government 
and were responsible to the Chinese Minister of Finance. At the same 
time they were also responsible to their respective Secretary of the 
Treasury, in the case of the United States, and Chancellor of the 
Exchequer, in the case of England. I sent letters to the Secretary 
of the Treasury and also to the head of Monetary Research, who hap- 
pened to be Mr. "\Miite. 

Mr. Wood. The question asked you was : Did Mr. Wliite supervise 
your activities ? 

Mr. Adler. I would receive instructions by cable from the Treasury. 
On major decisions I would naturally consult the Treasury. I would 
send cables to the Treasury and receive cables from the Treasury. I 
assume in that respect Mr. White did supervise my activities. 

Mr. Russell. Did you make anv reports directlv to Harrv Dexter 
TMiite? 

Mr. Adlfr. I sent memos and stuff to the Treasury. Is was usually 
addressed to the Secretaiy of the Treasury. 

Mr. Russell. Did vou ever send anv documents directlv to Harry 
Dexter Wliite? 

!Mr. Adler. I would say all documents I sent were sent in official 
pouches and addresesd to the Secretary of the Treasury, to the best 
of my recollection. 



1730 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. KussELL. Are you acquainted with Nathan Gregory Silver- 
master ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. When did you first meet him ? 

Mr. Adler. I met him sometime in 1939. 

Mr. Eussell. I will return to Silvermaster in a moment. 

You said you sent official reports to the Secretary of the Treasury? 

Mr. Adler. That is correct. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever send any unofficial reports to Harry 
Dexter Wliite? 

Mr. Adler. No. All my communications went through official 
pouches. 

Mr. Russell. How did you meet Nathan Gregory Silvermaster? 

Mr. Adler. I think through William Ludwig Ullmann. 

Mr. Russell. You think? 

Mr. Adler. I think so. 

Mr. Russell. Where did you meet him ? 

Mr. Adler. In his own house. 

Mr. Wood. If you recall meeting him in his own house, aren't you 
pretty sure through whom you met him ? 

Mr. Adler. I am pretty sure it was through Mr. Ullmann. 

Mr. Russell. How did you meet Mr. Ullmann ? 

Mr. Adler. In an office in the Treasury. 

Mr. Russell. Was he employed in Treasury at the same time you 
were ? 

Mr. Adler, I don't Imow when he came in Treasury, whether in 1938 
or 1939. 

Mr. Russell. How did you meet him in Treasury if he wasn't em- 
ployed there? 

Mr. Adler. I met him in Treasury when he was employed there. 

Mr. Russell. How many times did you see or visit Nathan Gregory 
Silvermaster during the time you were employed in Treasury ? 

Mr. Adler. Excuse my smiling, but I have been asked that question 
many times. It is a hard question to answer precisely. 

Mr. Russell. Was it once or more than once ? 

Mr. Adler. More than once. 

Mr, Russell. Who else was present during those visits ? 

Mr. Adler. Mr. Silvermaster, his wife, and her son. 

Mr. Russell. Anatole? 

Mr. Adler. Yes ; and Mr. Ullmann, and I think her brother, Witt, 
W-i-t-t or W-i-t-t-e. At other times there were other people there; 
Harry Wliite and his wife, I imagine. 

Mr. Russell. Did Mr. White also visit there ? 

Mr. Adler. I have seen him there, I think, once. I may have seen 
him there more often, but I wouldn't want to be more specific because I 
really don't recall. 

Mr. Wood, But you do recall seeing him there certainly one time ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes; I do. 

Mr. Russell. What was the nature of these gatherings ? 

Mr. Adler. They were completely informal. 

Mr. Russell. Did Mr. Ullmann ever show you any photographic 
equipment he had in the basement of his residence? 

Mr. Adler. Excuse my smiling, but I have been asked this question 
many times. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1731 

Mr. Russell. We are not interested in how many times the question 
has been asked you before. We would like to have it answered directly. 

Mr. Adler. I am not trying to digress. I have been in his base- 
ment and the thing I recall most vividly about it is something with neon 
lights which Mr. Ullmann was working on for advertising purposes. 
I am not mechanically minded, but I remember it had a flow of colors 
which changed, and he was working on it and said he was thinking of 
patenting it. 

Mr. Russell. Did you see any photographic equipment? 

Mr. Adler. I know Mr. Ullmann was a photographer, but I do not 
recall photographic equipment. 

Mr. Russell. You are positive of that ? 

Mr. Adler. To the best of my recollection. I just don't recall better 
than that. If you had asked me this question 2 or 3 years ago, if I had 
seen photographic equipment, I might have remembered it. 

Mr. Russell. When were you first asked if you saw photographic 
equipment in the basement? 

Mr. Adler. In the grand jury. 

Mr. Russell. How many years ago ? 

Mr. Adler. Two years ago. 

Mr. Russell. Could you recall having seen any photographic equip- 
ment at that time? You said a while ago if we had asked you the 
question 2 or 3 years ago you might have remembered. 

Mr. Adler. I don't know. 

Mr. Wood. Do you recall what you told the grand jury ? 

Mr. Adler. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Russell. In other words, you don't know whether you told the 
grand jury you saw photographic equipment in the basement? 

Mr. Adler. I might well have seen photographic equipment in the 
basement. I knew he was a photographer, and I knew he had photo- 
grahic equipment because he was a photographer. I am really not 
trying to evade you. 

Mr. Russell. You are an economist and you know the law of 
diminishing return ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. It seems you would recall whether you told the grand 
jury 2 years ago that you saw photographic equipment in Ullmann's 
basement. 

Mr. Adler. I don't know. 

Mr. Russell. What was the nature of the advertising you saw ? 

Mr. Adler. Some beer. This was an experiment. 

Mr. Russell. Can you describe it ? 

Mr. Adler. A collection of neon lights with a flow of color. 

Mr. Russell. Circular or rectangular? 

Mr. Adler. More likely semicircular. 

Mr. Russell. When was the last time you saw Nathan Gregory 
Silvermaster, Helen Silvermaster, Anatole Silvermaster, or William 
Ludwig Ullmann ? 

Mr. Adler. The last time I saw Silvermaster was sometime in 1945. 
The last time I saw Ullmann was sometime in 1946. 

Mr. Russell. Where did you last see those two ? 

Mr. Adler. I saw Ullman in the Treasury; he was working in the 
Treasury. Wliere I saw Silvermaster, I don't recall off-hand. It 
might have been on the street. 



1732 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Russell. Are you aware that Nathan Gregory Silvermaster 
and Helen W. Silvermaster and William Ludwig Ullmann have been 
named as espionage agents by a witness who appeared before this 
committee ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. And they were also identified as members of the Com- 
munist Party. Did you know them as members of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Adler. I did not. 

Mr. Russell. Were you ever a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever contributed to the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Adler. No ; I have not. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever made application for membership in 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Adler. I have not. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever registered as a Communist ? 

Mr. Adler. I have not. 

Mr. Russell, Have you ever attended Communist Party meetings ? 

Mr. Adler. I liave not. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Virginius Frank Coe ? 

Mr. Adler. I am. 

Mr. Russell. How did you meet him ? 

Mr. Adler. I met him in Washington in Brookings Institution. 

Mr. Russell. Can you describe the circumstances under which that 
meeting took place? 

Mr. Adler. I think it was probably at some luncheon I was intro- 
duced to him. 

Mr. Russell. By whom ? 

IVIr. Adler. I don't recall. 

Mr. Russell. 'AMiere was the luncheon ? 

Mr. Adler. At Brookings Institution. 

Mr. Russell. Wliat w^as the purpose of the luncheon ? 

Mr. Adler. To eat, I suppose. 

Mr. Russell. ITnder whose auspices ? Brookings Institution ? 

Mr. Adler. No. There is a restaurant in Brookings Institution 
which economists use. I had the use of the facilities of Brookings 
Institution. 

Mr. Russell. Have you received any correspondence from Nathan 
Gregory Silvermaster, Helen W. Silvermaster, William Ludwig Ull- 
mann, or Frank Coe recently ? 

Mr. Adler. Not recently. 

Mr. Russell. Did you correspond with them during the period of 
your acquaintance with them ? 

Mr. Adler. I have not corresponded with Silvermaster or his wife. 
I think I wrote a post card from Honolulu to Mr. Fllmann in 1941. 
;Mr. Coe I may have written to at times. I think I sent him a Christmas 
card last year. 

Mr. Russell. It seems to me if you can recall you mailed a post card 
to Mr. Ullmann from Honolulu in 1941, you could remember if you 
saw photographic equipment in his basement? 

Mr. Adler. I'll tell you why I recall sending him that post card. 
'Jliat card interested the investigators and they asked me about it. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1733 

Mr. Russell. Are you interested in photography ? 

Mr. Adler. I am not. 

Mr. Russell. Can you describe the circumstances under which the 
post card was mailed ? You said it was interesting. 
Mr. Adler. The investigators were interested. 

Mr. Russell. How did you know Mr. Ulhnann was a photographer? 

Mr. Adler. I saw pictures he had taken. 

Mr. Russell. He tokl you he had taken the pictures? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did he ever take any pictures for you? 

Mr. Adler. This is a strange thing, and I am glad you asked that 
question. Wlien I was asked that question in the grand jury I said 
"No," and then I remembered afterward that he had once taken a 
couj)le photographs of me. 

Mr. Russell. Did he ever photograph any documents for you? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. None at all ? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. He made a couple photographs of you ? 

Mr, Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall the type of camera he used ? 

Mr. Adler. No; I don't. 

Mr. Russell. When did he make those pictures ? 

Mr. Adler. I think in the late winter of 1939. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall where he made them? 

Mr. Adler. At his house. 

Mr. Wood-. Well, then, you did see photographic equipment in his 
home ? 

Mr. Adler. I saw a camera. 

Mr. Wood. Isn't that photographic equipment? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. I yield to you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Russell. How were those photographs developed? 

Mr. Adler. That I don't know. 

Mr. Russell. Did you pay for them ? 

Mr. Adler. No; I didn't. 

Mr. Russell. Did he develop them? 

Mr. Adler. I assume so; yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did he tell you he developed them ? 

Mr. Adler. Gee, I just don't know. 

Mr. Russell. You never saw any developing equipment in the 
basement of his home ? 

Mr. Adler. Not that I recall. 

Mr. RusgELL. Did he have a great many pictures? 

Mr. Adler. He had a number of photographs. 

Mr. Russell. Large or small? 

Mr. Adler. Fairly large for photographs. 

]Mr. AVooD. Did he deliver the photographs that he made of you to 
you himself? 

Mr, Adler. I think so ; yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever discuss his photographic ability with 
him ? 

Mr. Adler. I don't think so. 

Mr. Russell. You did notice a number of photographs on the 
wall ? 



1734 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr, Adler. I remember one of Mrs. Silvermaster, and he once 
showed me photographs he had made for the Farm Resettlement Ad- 
ministration many years ago. 

Mr. Russell. Did you discuss his photographic work with him 
extensively ? 

Mr. Adler. To the best of my knowledge I did not. I am not ter- 
ribly interested in photography, anyway. In fact, I am completely 
ignorant. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever ask him how he enlarged those photo- 
graphs ? 

Mr. Adler. I did not. 

Mr. Russell. Did he ever tell you he had enlarging equipment? 

Mr. Abler. Not that I recall, 

Mr. Russell, Do you know Abraham George Silverman? 

Mr. Adler. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Russell, Where did you meet him ? 

Mr, Adler. At Brookings Institution, 

Mr, Russell, Do you recall the circumstances ? 

Mr, Adler. Not in detail. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall anything about it at all, when it was ? 

Mr. Adler. I would say it was either in late 1933 or early 1934. 

Mr. Russell. You met him here the first time you came to the 
United States? 

Mr. Adler. On my first visit to the United States; that is correct. 

INIr. Russell. As a traveling fellow ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Wlio introduced you to Abraham George Silverman ? 

Mr. Adler. I don't recall. 

Mr. Russell. You met him here in Washington ? 

Mr. Adler, Yes, 

Mr. Russell, Where was he employed at that time ? 

Mr. Adler. I think he was in a section of NRA. 

Mr. Russell, Who else did you meet in Washington at that time ? 

Mr. Adler. I met a lot of people. 

Mr. Russell. Can you name some others ? 

Mr. Wood. You say you met him in late 1933 or early 1934 ? 

Mr. Adler. That is right. I met a lot of people, I met Mr, A. 
Manuel Fox and his wife, I met Max Sasuly. I met Isadore Lattman. 

Mr. Russell. Spell the last name. 

Mr. Adler. L-a-t-t-m-a-n. I had met Isadore Lattman, by the way, 
before, in London. Shereshevsky. 

Mr. Russell. Will you spell that ? 

Mr. Adler, S-h-e-r-e-s-h-e-v-s-k-y, And Roger Cohen, 

Mr, Russell, These were all in late 1933 or early 1934 ? 

Mr. Adler. Sometime in 1934, 

Mr. Russell. You don't recall who introduced you to Abraham 
George Silverman? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr, Russell. Was it Irving Kaplan ? 

Mr, Adler. I had not met Irving Kaplan. 

Mr. Russell. At that time ? 

Mr. Adler. That is correct. 

Mr. Russell. Did Irving Kaplan ever live in California, to the best 
of your recollection ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1735 

Mr. Adler. I met Irving Kaplan in 1936 when I was working for 
National Research project. 

Mr. EussELL. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. Adler. I have faintly heard he was in UN. I forget from 
whom I heard it. 

Mr. Russell. When was the last time you saw him ? 

Mr. Adler. I think I have already answered that question. 

Mr. Russell. Answer it again. 

Mr. Adler. I think it was in January 1948. 

Mr. Russell. You saw him on the street ? 

Mr. Adler. That is right. 

Mr. Russell. Did you discuss with him the charges made by Eliza- 
beth Bentley or Whittaker Chambers ? 

Mr. Adler. I did not. I did not know of the charges. 

Mr. Russell. In 1948 ? 

Mr. Adler. As made by Elizabeth Bentley and Whittaker Chambers. 

Mr. Russell. When was the last time you saw Abraham George 
Silverman ? 

Mr. Adler. This is a very strange coincidence. I had not seen him 
since 1916, and I bumped into him yesterday in the lobby of an office 
building. 

Mr. Russell. Here in Washington? 

Mr. Adler. Correct. 

Mr. Russell. What office building is that? 

Mr. Adler. Where my lawyer is, on K Street between Sixteenth and 
Seventeenth, the Commonwealth Building. 

Mr. Russell. Who is your attorney ? 

Mr. Adler. Mr, Milton Kramer. 

Mr. Russell. K-r-a-m-e-r? 

Mr. Adler. Correct. 

Mr. Russell. In the Commonwealth Building? 

Mr. Adler. I think it is the Commonwealth Building. I know the 
telephone number. I think it is 1622 K Street. 

Mr. Russell. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Silverman 
yesterday ? 

Mr. iVDLER. Only for a moment. 

Mr. Russell. What was the nature of that conversation ? 

Mr. A.DLER. Very general. He told me he was about to become a 
grandfather. 

Mr. Russell. Did you tell him you had been subpenaed to appear 
before this committee ? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Have you corresponded with him at any time during 
the interim ? 

Mr. Adler. I have not. 

Mr. RussEiiL. Did you have any correspondence with him while you 
were in China ? 

Mr, Adler. Not that I recall. I may have dropped him a line at 
Christmas or something like that. I am sure it could not have been 
more than that. 

Mr. Russell, Did you ever discuss the nature of the work you 
were doing with Mr. Silverman through a letter at any time? 

Mr. Adler. I did not. 



1736 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Russell. Do you know wliere Mr. Silverman is employed now ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. He is workin^r for Murray Latimer. 

Mr. Russell. Here in Washington? 

Mr. Abler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with William Henry Taylor? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

JNIr. Russell. How did you meet him ? 

Mr. Adler. I met him in 19-11 in Treasury. 

Mr. Russell. Was he employed in Treasury at that time? 

Mr. Adler. Correct. 

Mr. Russell. Through whom did you meet Mr. Taylor ? 

Mr. Adler. I don't know. It could have been any one of our 
colleagues. 

Mr. Russell. You are aware that Abraham George Silverman was 
named as an espionage agent by Elizabeth Bentley ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did you hear he was also named by Wliittaker 
Chambers? 

Mr. Adler. As I recall, he made some statements about him, but 
not in detail, that I recall. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Elizabeth Bentley? 

Mr. Adler. I met her for the first time in my life at my loyalty 
hearings in September 1948. 

Mr. Russell. You had never seen her before? 

Mr. Adler. Never seen or heard of her before she gave testimony 
before the House Committee on Un-American Activities. 

Mr. Wood. Do you know Wliittaker Chambers? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. When did you last see William Henry Taylor? 

Mr. Adler. I bumped into him on a streetcar a few weeks ago on 
the way to work. 

Mr. JRussELL. Are you acquainted with Victor Perlo? 

Mr. Adler. He is another guy I met in 1933 or 1934, but only once 

or twice, and the next time I saw him, to the best of my knowledge 

1 am not a lawyer, but do I make my meaning clear ? On minor details 
I may say things inconsistent with what I have said on previous oc- 
casions. If I do, I want to say I am testifying to the best of my 
recollection now. 

Mr. Wood. That is all that is required of anyone. 

Mr. Adler. The next time I saw Mr. Perlo that I recall was in 1946. 
My acquaintance with Mr. Perlo was completely casual. 

Mr. Russell. You saw him in 1946 ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes ; in Treasury. 

Mr. Russell. W^as he employed in Treasury at that time? 

Mr. Adler. That is right. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever see him in the home of Nathan Gregory 
Silvermaster? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. You haven't seen him since 1946 ? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. You are aware he was also named as a member of an 
espionage ring by Elizabeth Bentley ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1737 

Mr. Russell. And also by Wliittaker Chambers ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Solomon Lischinsky 'i 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. How are you acquainted with him? 

Mr. Adler. I met him in Chicago in 1935. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall the circumstances ? 

Mr. Adler. Not specifically. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall who introduced you to Mr. Lischinsky? 

Mr. Adler. I do not. 

Mr. Russell. When did you last see him? 

Mr. Adler. I saw him sometime in 1946. I saw his wife sometime 
in May 1948. 

Mr. Russell. Where? 

Mr. Adler. At his house. 

Mr. Russell. In Washington ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr, Russell. Do you recall the address ? 

]Mr. Adler. No; I don't. It is W Street SW., or something like 
tliat. 

Mr. Russell. Wliat was the nature of that meeting? 

Mr. Adler. His father and mother were visiting him and I went 
over and they invited me to stay for dinner, and I did. 

Mr. Russell. You were also acquainted with his mother and 
father ? 

Mr. Adler. That was the fiist time I had ever met them. 

Mr. Russell. Did he invite you there for the purpose of meeting 
his mother and father ? 

]\Ir. Adler. Offhand, I would say yes, but I really don't remember. 

Mr. RussEix. Were there any other persons present ? 

Mr. Adler. His wife, his sister, and his two children. 

Mr. Russell. No one else? 

Mr. Adler. No one else that I recall. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Harry Magdoff ? 

Mr. Adler. I am acquainted with him. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall where you met him ? 

Mr. Adler. At the National Research Project. 

Mr. Russell. During the course of your work, or was he introduced 
to you by someone ? 

Mr. Adler. During the course of my work. 

Mr. Russell. When was the last time you saw him ? 

Mr. Adler. The last time I saw him was at Brentano's book store. 
I don't recall whether it was in 1944 or April 1945. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall the circumstances of that meeting? 
Was it prearranged? 

Mr. Adler. No. I was looking at the magazines in Brentano's and 
I bumped into him. 

Mr. Russell. Did anyone else come into the store while you were 
there ? 

Mr. Adler. The store was full of people. 

Mr. Russell. Anyone you know ? 

Mr. Adler. Not that I knew. I think I exchanged a few words 
with him and then left. 



1738 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Charles Kramer? 

Mr. Abler. I met him once in the corridor of Treasury. 

Mr. Russell. By whom was that introduction effected ? 

Mr. Adler. I don't recall. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall anybody else being present at the time 
you met him ? 

Mr. Adler. It was in someone's office that I was introduced to him. 

Mr. Wood. I thought you said you met him in the corridor? 

Mr. Adler. That is right, but he was with other people on the way 
to an office. I don't recall which office. 

Mr. Russell. Where was he employed at that time ? 

Mr. Adler. I don't know. 

Mr. Russell. What year was that ? 

Mr. Adler. 1944. 

Mr. Russell. Spring, summer, fall? 

Mr. Adler. I was here from August to December in 1944, so it was 
during that period. 

Mr. Russell. He was not employed by Treasury ? 

Mr. Adler. No ; he was not. 

Mr. Russell. "V-Vliere was he employed at that time ? 

Mr. Adler. I think it was in connection with some House com- 
mittee or something. 

Mr. Russell. Did he have business with Treasury Department 
at the time you met him ? 

Mr. Adler. I assume so. 

Mr. Russell. You don't recall whether you discussed that Treasury 
business with him? 

Mr. Adler. I was introduced to him and that was all. 

Mr. Russell. You don't recall whether anybody else was present? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Nor do you recall the name of the person who effected 
the introduction ? 

Mr. Adler. I do not. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with John Abt ? 

Mr. Adler. I saw him two or three times. 

Mr. Russell. How did you meet him ? 

Mr. Adler. Through my friend Sol Lischinsky. 
Mr. Russell. Did you meet him in the home of Solomon Lis- 
chinsky ? 

Mr. Adler. No. I think the amalgamated clothing industry had a 
statistical bureau, and I used to have luncheon with Lischinsky in 
that vicinity from time to time, and that is where I met John Abt. 
Mr. Russell. When was the last time you saw John Abt? 
Mr. Adler. At least 10 years ago. 

Mr. Russell. Are you aware Charles Kramer was named a member 
of an espionage group by Elizabeth Bentley, and as a member of a 
Communist cell by Whittaker Chambers ? 
Mr. Adler. I am aware of that. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever discuss those charges with Charles 
Kramer ? 

Mr, Adler. The only time I met Charles Kramer was this occasion 
in 1944, so I could not very well discuss them with him. 
Mr. Russell. Have you seen him since? 
Mr. Adler. I have not. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1739 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Nathan Witt ? 

Mr. Abler. I met him once; it was in the winter of 1938 or 1939 
at the home of Tom Emerson. 

Mr. Russell. Was he in Washington at the time ? 

Mr. Adler. Tom Emerson was, yes. 

Mr. Russell. Wliat was the nature of that meeting? 

Mr. Adler. It was at a dinner. 

Mr. Russell. Who else was present ? 

Mr. Adler. Tom Emerson and his life and a couple other people. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know Charles Coe, the brother of Frank 
Coe? 

Mr. Adler. Yes ; I know him. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know his present occupation ? 

Mr. Adler. I do not. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall through whom you met him? 

Mr. Adler. At Brookings in 1933. 

Mr. Russell. Was he employed at Brookings ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes ; he had a Brookings fellowship. 

Mr. Russell. How long did you stay in China ? 
. Mr. Adler. I arrived in China in September 1941. I was in China 
until 1944. I spent a month in India in 1943. I was in Washington 
for 5 months in 1944. I was in Washington about 3 months in 1945. 
And I was in Washington for 3 weeks in 1946. 

Mr. Russell. Stop right there. While you were in Washington 
from July 14 to August 6, 1946, did you see Mr. and Mrs. Abraham 
George Silverman ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did you also see Frank Coe ? 

Mr. Adler. Yp^. 

Mr. Russell. Harold Glasser ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. William Luclwig Ullmann ? 

Mr. Adler. He was in Treasury in 1946. I saw him. 

Mr. Russell. Dorothy and Irving Kaplan ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Sol Lischinsky ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did you visit the home of Abraham George Silver- 
man? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did you visit the home of Frank Coe ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Russell. Did you visit the home of Harold Glasser ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did you visit the home of Dorothy and Irving Kaplan ? 

Mr. Adler. No ; I was not at their home. 

Mr. Russell. Did you visit the home of Sol Lischinsky ? 

Mr. Adler. I think I was at his home. I am not sure. 

Mr. Russell. Did you know any of the persons about whom I have 
asked you as Communists? 

Mr. Adler. I did not. 

Mr. Russell. Did they ever discuss communism with you? 

Mr. Adler. Not that I recall. 



1740 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Wood, By that, do you mean to leave the inference that it is 
possible they did and you would not recall it? 

Mr. Abler. It might have been discussed in a purely incidental way. 
I don't want to exclude that possibility. After all, this was over a 
period of years, and it might have been discussed in an incidental 
way, but not in any other way. 

Mr. Russell. None of them ever admitted Communist Party mem- 
bership to you ? 

Mr. Adler, No. 

Mr. Russell. Did any of them ever ask you to join the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with an individual by the name 
of Anna Berenson ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes I met her at the "Whites. 

Mr. Russell. At the home of Harry Dexter White ? 

Mr. Adler. She seemed to be a friend of Harry Dexter White's wife. 
I am not sure. 

Mr. Russell. Do you remember who else was present? 

Mr. Adler. No. It was so long ago. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know the nature of her occupation at that 
time ? 

Mr. Adler. I think she was a social worker. 

Mr. Russell, Did you ever see her after you met her at the home of 
Harry Dexter Wliite? 

Mr, Adler. I probably did, but I don't recall how many times or 
where. I think in the course of my life, if I have met her more than 
4 or 5 times I would be surprised. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know Hal Ware ? 

Mr. Adler, No. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know Phillip Jacob Jaffe ? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Oscar Lange ? 

Mr. Adler. Lange I met in Chicago. I think I had tea with him 
and his wife once. 

Mr. Russell. What year was that ? 

Mr, Adler. I think in 1935, 

Mr, Russell. Are you acquainted with Chao-Ting Chi? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Where did you meet him ? 

Mr. Adler. I first met him in the Congressional Library. I have 
a desk in the Congressional Library, and as I recall he was working 
on the same floor. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall the subject you were working on ? 

Mr. Adler. That I was working on or that he was working on? 
I was in the Congressional Library on my traveling fellowship. 

Mr. Russell. What year was that ? 

Mr. Adler. Late 1933 or early 1934. 

Mr. Russell. How did you meet Mr. Chi ? 

Mr. Adler. Sitting in the Congressional Library, when you have 
a pew there, after a while you begin to get acquainted with people 
there. 

Mr, Russell, Did you discuss communism with him? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1741 

Mr. Adler. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with John Stewart Service? 
Mr. Adler. Yes. I met him in China in 1941. 
Mr. Russell. In what city in China ? 
Mr. Adler. Chungking. 

Mr. Russell. Who else was present when you met him ? 
Mr. Adler. I am sure Mr. Clarence Gauss or John Carter Vincent 
introduced us in the office of the Embassy. I think it was in November 
1941. 
Mr. Russell. Do you know Richard Sorge? 
Mr. Adler. I do not. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever heard of him ? 

Mr. Adler. The only occasion I heard of him was when I heard 
of this thing from Tokyo a few months ago. 
Mr. Russell. How about Agnes Smedley? 
Mr. Adler. I never met her. 

Mr. Russell. Did you see Mr. Service more than once in China ? 
Mr. Adler. Sure. 
Mr. Russell. How often? 

Mr. Adler. I don't know. Quite often. We were good friends. I 
don't know how often I saw him. 

Mr. Russell. Where did you usually see him? 

Mr. Adler. In the Embassy or in the homes of other people. 

Mr. Russell, What other people? 

Mr. Adler. People in the Embassy. 

Mr. Russell. Will you name some? 

Mr. Adler. People of the American community there, the Standard 

Oil people 

Mr. Russell. I am speaking of the Embasy now. I am not speak- 
ing of the Standard Oil Co. 

Mr. Adler. He lived with Mr. Gauss and John Carter Vincent, and 
1 used to go to lunch with Mr. Gauss and play pinochle with Mr. 
Gauss. 

Mr. Russell. You say you visited the homes of other people con- 
nected with the Embassy. You didn't visit all of them; did you? 

Mr. Adler. I wouldn't say I visited all of them, but it is a rather 
small community in Chungking, and most foreigners got to know 
each other, and over a period of years I have been in many people's 
homes, including my own. He lived with me a while. 

Mr. Russell. Did you discuss Nationalist China with him? 
Mr. Adler. It was part of our job. 

Mr. Russell. Did he ever evince any sympathy with Communist 
China? 

Mr. Adler, I would say no. 

Mr. Russell. Did you? 

Mr. Adler. I would say no. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know Alexander Stevens ? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr, Russell. Also known as J. Peters? 

Mr. Adler. I do not. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know Donald Wheeler ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

67052— 50— pt. 1 4 



1742 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Russell. Where did you meet him ? 

Mr. Abler. In Treasury. 

Mr. Russell. Wlien? 

Mr. Adler. I think in 1938. 

Mr. Russell. Was he employed by Treasury at that time ? 

Mr. Abler. Yes ; he was. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever visit his home ? 

Mr. Abler. I recall having dinner there once. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with the fact Donald Wheeler 
was also mentioned in the testimony of Elizabeth Bentley ? 

Mr. Abler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. When was the last time you saw Donald AVheeler ? 

Mr. Abler. I was carrying a big bag of groceries home 

Mr. Russell. Here in Washington ? 

Mr. Abler. Yes, in 1945, on lower Wisconsin Avenue, and I greeted 
him and I returned home. 

Mr. Russell. That was the last time you saw him ? 

Mr. Abler. That is right. 

Mr. RussELE. Are you acquainted with Allan Rosenberg ? 

Mr. Abler. I have been asked this question many times, and I do 
not recall meeting this person. 

Mr. Russell. You don't know him ? 

Mr. Abler. To the best of my knowledge, I do not. 

Mr. Russell. Do you. know Richard Sasuly ? 

Mr. Abler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. "Wliere did you meet him ? 

Mr. Abler. I think at the home of his mother. 

Mr. Russell. What was his occupation at that time ? 

Mr. Abler. I think he was a student. 

Mr. Russell. Are you aware of his present occupation? Is he in 
Europe ? 

Mr. Abler. I was told he had been in Europe. I don't know if he 
is now. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know w*hat Richard Sasuly had been doing 
in Europe ? 

Mr. Abler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Was he connected with Tass ? 

Mr. Abler. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Russell. Or Federated Press ? 

Mr. Abler. I don't know. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know Elizabeth Sasuly, his wife? 

Mr. Abler. I met her through him. 

Mr. Russell. When was the last time you saw him ? 

Mr. Abler. I would say 5 or 6 years ago. 

Mr. Russell. Were Richard and Elizabeth Sasuly known to you 
as members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Abler. They were not. 

Mr. Russell. You haven't seen them for 5 or 6 years ? 

Mr. Aler. Except I saw Sasuly once on the street. 

Mr. Russell. How about Elizabeth ? 

Mr. Abler. I didn't see her. 

Mr. Russell. You saw Richard when ? 

Mr. Abler. Once on the street. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1743 

Mr. Russell. Recently? 

Mr. Abler. I think it was more than a year ago. I think it was 
sometime kite in 1948. I am not sure. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should show at 
this point that Elizabeth Sasuly appeared before this committee dur- 
ing the past summer in connection with the committee's investigation 
of communism in the District of Columbia, and at the time of her 
appearance she declined to answer all pertinent questions. 

Are you acquainted with Edward Fitzgerald ? 

Mr. Adler. I have met him certainly not more than half a dozen 
times in my life. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall where you met him ? 

Mr. Abler. I met him at the National Research project. 
• Mr. Russell. Did you meet him through an introduction or during 
the course of your work ? 

Mr. Abler. During the course of my work. Many of the people you 
have mentioned I have met in the course of my work. 

Mr. Russell. After you left the National Research project, did you 
see him ? 

Mr. Abler. Two or three times in Washington, on the street. 

Mr. Russell. When was the last time ? 

Mr. Abler. I think in 1944. 

Mr. Russell. On the street ? 

Mr. Abler. I think so. 

Mr. Russell. You are aware of the fact he was also mentioned in the 
testimony of Elizabeth Bentley ? 

Mr. Abler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with George Perazich? 

Mr. Abler. No ; I don't recall him. 

Mr. Russell. Henry Hill Collins ? 

Mr. Abler. No. 

Mr. Russell, Owen Lattimore? 

Mr. Abler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Where did you meet him ? 

Mr. Abler. In China in 1941. 

Mr. Russell. How did you meet him ? 

Mr. Abler. Through Mr. Fox. 

Mr. Russell. What was his occupation at that time ? 

Mr. Abler. Special adviser to Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek. 

Mr. Russell. Did you see him very often ? 

Mr. Abler. Fairly often ; yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever discuss with him the activities of the 
Chinese Nationalists? 

Mr. Abler. We certainly discussed the situation in Nationalist 
China. This was around December of 1941, and he was strongly in 
favor of a loan to the Nationalist Government of China. 

Mr. Russell. Did he ever discuss the affairs of Chiang Kai-shek 
with you ; in other words, the nature of his duties? 

Mr. Abler. I think he did in a general way, but not in a specific 
way. If you are living in a country you are interested in that coun- 
try; it is your job to be interested in it. If we had no discussed the 
strength of the regime and so on, it would have been inhuman. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever discuss the strength of the Nationalist 
Chinese Army with him? 



1744 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Abler. In detail, no. 

Mr. Russell. Did you discuss it in a small way ? 

Mr. Adler. Wlien I say in detail, I am sure neither he nor I knew 
the number of Nationalist divisions, but we might have discussed the 
morale of the Nationalist Army. 

Mr. Russell. What was the situation at that time ? 

Mr. Adler. In 1941 it was still pretty good, I would say. We would 
discuss those things in a general way, such as we would discuss the 
impact of the coal strikes which we have sometimes. These are the 
kind of things anyone discusses in a foreign community. 

Mr. Russell. Did you visit Mr. Lattimore often, or did he visit 
you? 

Mr. Adler. Not too often. We met at Madame Kung's, I remember, 
for a New Year dinner. I have seen Mr. Lattimore since. I don't 
know how often. I know my wife and I spent a week at his home in 
1945 in Baltimore. I saw him last year when he visited Harvard to 
give a lecture. I think that was the last time. 

Mr. Russell. You saw him at Harvard University ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. While you were a professor there? 

Mr. Adler. No. You are jumping to conclusions. He was visiting 
Harvard to give a lecture at a seminar. I had nothing to do with 
organizing the seminar. 

Mr. Russell. I didn't say you did, and I am not jumping to con- 
clusions. That was during the period you were a professor at Har- 
vard ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. I am sorry. I apologize. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever resided in New York City? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall the addresses? Did you ever reside at 
419 West One hundred and twenty-first Street ? 

Mr. Adler. Right. 

Mr. Russell. When you resided there, did you lease, sublet, or 
reside with someone else? 

Mr. Adler. I was by myself. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever live with someone else there? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever know anyone named Edel? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did he also live there, or did he sublet the place to 
you? 

Mr. Adler. I got the place from Leon Edel. I met his brother in 
England. I have not seen either of them in many, many years. 

Mr. Russell. How did you find out that you could sublease that 
apartment ? 

Mr. Adler. I suppose I arrived in New York and I stayed in a 
hotel, and I naturally would look up people I knew and ask about 
apartments, and I probably called Abraham Edel and he told me his 
brother was leaving and was going to sublet his apartment, and I 
took it. 

Mr. Russell. Where was his brother going at the time you sublet 
his apartment ? 

Mr. Adler. I think to France. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1745 

Mr. EussELL. He was leaving the country ? 

Mr. Adler. I think so. 

Mr. Russell. How long did you reside there? 

Mr. Adler. Six or seven months, something like that. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall when that was ^ 

Mr. Adler. In 1936. 

Mr. Russell. Is Abraham Edel still residing in New York? 

Mr. Adler. As far as I know. 

Mr. Russell. Where did he reside at that time? 

Mr. Adler. Somewhere near the City College of New York campus. 

Mr. Russell. You also lived at 66 Perry Street, New York City ? 

Mr. Adler. That is right. 

Mr. Russell. Did you reside with anyone there ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know Sybil May? 

Mr. Adler. That is right. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall whether you rented the apartment 
from her i 

Mr. Adler. I think so. 

Mr. Russell. You think so ? 

Mr. Adler. I am pretty sure, yes. 

Mr. Russell. Was she the owner of that apartment? 

Mr. Adler. I think so, yes. 

Mr. Russell. How did you meet Sybil May? 

Mr. Adler. I don't recall. 

Mr. Russell. Have you seen her recently ? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Have you corresponded with her? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Was she employed at that time ? 

Mr. Adler. I think she was a teacher. 

Mr. Russell. Where? 

Mr. Adler. At one of the private schools in New York. 

Mr. Russell. You think she was a teacher ? 

Mr. Adler. I know she was a teacher. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know when you lived at 66 Perry Street, New 
York City? 

Mr. Adler. From about September 1936 until I came to Washington. 

Mr. Russell. Is Sybil May a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Adler. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Russell. Where did she live at the time you lived at 66 Perry 
Street? 

Mr. Adler. She was living there, too. 

Mr. Russell. In an apartment in the same building? 

Mr. Adler. That is right. 

Mr. Russell. How many apartments were there in the building? 

Mr. Adler. I don't know. 

Mr. Russell. Was it a large building? 

Mr. Adler. Not too large ; no. 

Mr. Russell. When you were in China, in Chungking, did you ever 
reside with John Stewart Service? 

Mr. Adler. He lived with me a few weeks. 

Mr. Russell. Where did you reside with him? 



1746 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Abler. At 22 Pao Tai Kai. He was there about a month or so. 

Mr. RussELii. Do you recall when that was ? 

Mr. Abler. December 1944, just before I left. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever collaborate with Service on a report on 
the Chinese situation ? 

Mr. Abler. He asked me to look it over ; yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did you help him ? 

Mr. Abler. Yes ; on the financial and economic aspects. 

Mr. Russell. Was that report turned over to Vice President Henry 
Wallace upon his arrival in China in 1944 ? 

Mr. Abler. When I worked on it I didn't know what its purpose 
would be, but I heard later that it was. 

Mr. Russell. That it was turned over to Henry Wallace? 

Mr. Abler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever have a copy of that report ? 

Mr. Abler. I don't recall. I really don't recall. 

Mr. Russell. If you had one, would you recall that you did ? 

Mr. Abler. I really don't recall. I may well have had one. 

Mr. Russell. Do you still have it ? 

Mr. Abler. I certainly do not. 

Mr. Russell. If you "had had a copy, what disposition would you 
have made of it ? 

Mr. Abler. If it was an official document I would have sent it to the 
Secretary of the Treasury. 

Mr. Russell. If it was Service's document you would not have sent 
it to the Secretary of the Treasury ? 

Mr. Abler. I clon't know. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know where that report is now ? 

Mr. Abler. I think extracts are in the white paper. 

Mr. Russell. Was the entire report ever published, to the best of 
your knowledge ? 

Mr. Abler. To the best of my knowledge, no. 

Mr. Russell. Could you identify any extracts from it that appear 
in the white paper ? 

Mr. Abler. Yes, I could. 

Mr. Russell. You are positive you never had a copy of the entire 
report? 

Mr. Abler. I cannot say that. If I were positive either way I 
would not be telling the truth. 

Mr, Russell. Did you meet Mr. Wallace in China in 1944 ? 

Mr. Abler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Where? 

Mr. Abler. At the home of Mr. Gauss. 

Mr. Russell. Was Owen Lattimore there ? 

Mr. Abler. Yes, and Mr. Gauss and John Carter Vincent were 
there. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall what the report contained, the one 
you collaborated with Mr. Service in formulating ? 

Mr. Abler. "Collaborate" is a strong word. 

Mr. Russell. Or assisted. 

Mr. Abler. It was a report of the situation in China as Mr. Service 
saw it. It was a very frank report, in which he did not pull his 
punches. He pointed out that unless something was done there was 
a chance of China falling under Russian domination. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1747 

Mr. Russell. Would yovi say the general tenor of the report was 
pro-Communist or anti-Communist? 

Mr. Adler. I would say neither. I would say it was very critical 
of the Government. I would say it recognized the potential strength 
of the Chinese Communists and recognized the danger of China fall- 
ing under Russian domination, and proposed countermeasures to pre- 
vent that. 

Mr. Russell. Do you think the report could be published in its 
entirety at this time ? 

Mr. Abler. I would have to read it over again to decide. It wasn't 
a short document, I can assure you. 

Mr. Tavenner. "\'Vliat action did the report recommend that the 
Kuomintang take ? 

Mr. Adler. Revitalizing of the Kuomintang in all fields, political, 
economic, and financial. 

Mr. Russell. Did it urge the removal of any particular people from 
office? 

Mr. Adler. I don't think so. 

Mr. Russell, Was any recommendation made as to what loans 
should be made to China ? 

Mr. Adler. I don't think that was a point during the war. I don't 
think there was any question about that at that time, in 1944. 

Mr. Russell. Were any recommendations contained in that report 
providing for extension of lend-lease on a greater or lesser scale ? 

Mr. Adler. I don't know. There might well have been. 

Mr. Russell. Were you ever offered a position in the Central Bank 
in China? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. Who offered you that position ? 

Mr. Adler. Mr. Tsuyu Pei, who at that time was governor of the 
Central Bank. He is now in this country. He is a good friend of mine. 

Mr. Russell. Wasn't that position offered you by Chao' Ting Chi ? 

Mr. Adler. It was not. 

Mr. Russell. Did you know Chi to have been a Communist during 
the time you were associated with him ? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know what his present position is ? 

Mr. Adler. I read about it in the papers. 

Mr. Russell. Is he still head of Monetary Affairs in the new 
Chinese Communist Government? 

Mr. Adler. I saw he had been nominated by the Chinese Commu- 
nists to represent them in economic and social affairs. 

Mr. Russell. You do know he is an employee of the Chinese Com- 
munist Government at this time ? 

Mr. Adler. He is now, yes. 

Mr. Russell. During the time you knew him, was he ever associ- 
ated with the Chinese Nationalist Government? 

Mr. Adler. He certainly was. When I saw him in 1941 he was sec- 
retary of the Stabilization Board of China, appointed by Mr. Chen 
and Dr. Kung. 

Mr. Russell. Are you aware that Elizabeth Bentley alleged that 
you were working with Chi while he was associated with the Chinese 
Nationalist Government ? 



1748 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Abler. I am not aware. 

Mr. Russell. Were you? 

Mr. Adlek. I was not. 

Mr. Russell. Were you associated with Clii at that time? 

Mr. Adler. The only connection was official. He was secretary of 
the Stabilization Board of China and I was a member. 

Mr. Russell. Was Chi acquainted with Lattimore ? 

Mr. Adler. I think so. 

Mr. Russell. Are you sure? 

Mr. Adler. Pretty sure. 

Mr. Russell. Was he acquainted with John Stewart Service? 

Mr. Adler. I think so, 

Mr. Russell. Are you definite? 

Mr. Adler. Pretty definite. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever see them together ? 

Mr. Adler. I am pretty sure they knew each other socially, yes. 

Mr. Russell. Did Chi know Abraham George Silverman, according 
to your recollection? 

Mr. Adler. I do not know. 

Mr. Russell. Did he know Nathan Gregory Silvermaster ? 

Mr. Adler. I do not know. 

Mr. Russell. Did he know William Ludwig Ullmann ? 

Mr. Adler. I do not know. 

Mr. Russell. Did he know any of the other persons I asked you 
about this morning? 

Mr. Adler. He knew Harry White and Frank Coe. 

Mr. Russell. How about Harold Glasser? 

Mr. Adler. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Russell. Was he acquainted with Kate Mitchell, or do you 
know Kate Mitchell ? 

Mr. Adler. I do not know Kate Mitchell. 

Mr. Russell. You first met Chi in the Library of Congress ? 

Mr. Adler. That is right. 

Mr. Russell. Have you followed Chi's career closely since the time 
you first met him in the Library of Congress? 

Mr. Adler. I have not. 

Mr. Russell. How many times have you seen him since the first 
time you met him? 

Mr. Adler. In China I saw him very often. We had board meet- 
ings. He kept the minutes of the board meetings. So I would see 
him very often, just as I saw other members connected with the board 
very often. 

Mr. Russell. From what you know of him now, do you believe he 
was a Communist espionage agent during the time he was associated 
with the Chinese Nationalist Government? 

Mr. Adler. I do not know. 

Mr. Russell. He had access to confidential, restricted information? 

Mr. Adler. He had access to the files of the Stabilization Board. 

Mr. Russell. They would have been restricted as to the Chinese 
Communists, would they not? 

Mr. Adler. I would say so. 

Mr. Russell. Chi is now associated with the Chinese Communists ? 

Mr. Adler. Chinese bureaucrats are notorious for going over to the 
side in power. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1749 

Mr. Russell. During the time that Chi was associated with the 
Chinese Nationalist Government, the Nationalists were in power ? 

Mr. Adler. That is right. 

Mr. Russell. You know communism as well as I do; probably 
more. 

Mr. Adler. I doubt it. 

Mr. Russell. A man would not be taken out of the Chinese Na- 
tionalist Government and put in the Chinese Communist Government 
unless he had always been a Communist'^ 

Mr. Adler. That is not so. 

Mr. Russell. You had no indication Chi had any sympathy for 
Conmiunists at all? 

Mr. Adler. No. He was very close to Dr. Kung and Madame Kung. 
He came from the same province as Dr. Kung and apparently knew 
him when he was a boy. 

Mr. Russell. You said it did not necessarily follow that a man 
would not be taken out of the Chinese Nationalist Government and 
put in the Chinese Communist Government unless he had always been 
a Communist. Will you elaborate on your answer, please ? 

Mr. Adler. I would say Chinese Communists are great oppor- 
tunists. 

Mr. Russell. This man was originally a Chinese Nationalist ? 

Mr. Wood. At least presumably. 

Mr. Adler. You ask if the Chinese Communists would take over 
someone who was not one of them? 

Mr. Russell. Yes. 

Mr. Adler. They have taken over many of them. 

Mr. Russell. That doesn't necessarily mean they didn't have Com- 
munist sympathies all the time? 

Mr. Adler. There were many of them. Don't take my opinion. 
Take the State Department's opinion. 

Mr. Russell. I want your opinion. Mr. Chi, during the time he 
was associated with the Chinese Nationalists, did have access to 
restricted information that would have been of value to the Chinese 
Communists ? 

Mr. Adler. He had access to restricted information, but the point 
I want to make, and you can ask any China expert 

Mr. Russell. There aren't any that I know of. 

Mr. Adler. It is notorious that they go over to the side in power. 

Mr. Russell. People do that in the United States, but it doesn't 
mean the man did not long have Communist sympathies. 

Mr. Adler. No ; nor does it mean otherwise. In China the Com- 
munists have taken many people who opposed them before they came 
in power. Ignore my word. Ask anyone who knows anything about 
China whether that is so or not. Ask them whether many people in 
China who opposed the Communists before they came in power have 
not gone over to the Communists, and they will tell you yes. Fu 
Tso Yin, one of the few generals everybody agreed the generalissimo 
could trust has now gone over to the Communists? 

Mr. Russell. He and his army capitulated ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. That is a different situation. 

Mr. Adler. He has become a member of the Communist government 
in a very high position. 



1750 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Russell. Insofar as China is concerned, it enjoys a peculiar 
distinction in its Communist regime, because in other countries where 
the Communists have gained control the people who have headed the 
Communist governments have been people who have always been 
sympathetic with communism. 

Mr. Adler. That is right, and you will find in China prominent 
people in high positions who opposed the Communists before they 
came in power. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever had an American passport for travel 

in Russia? 

Mr. Adler. No, 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been to Russia ? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever had a passport gi-anted by the British 
Government ? 

Mr. Adler. To come to this country. 

Mr. Russell. To go to any other country ? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever own stock in radio station WQQW ? 

Mr. Adler. My wife bought a share. 

Mr. Russell. Her name is Dorothy Richardson ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. She bought a share ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Does she own it now ? 

Mr. Adler. I think the company has gone bankrupt. The value is 
nebulous, if any. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been associated with anyone known to 
you to be a Communist ? 

Mr. Adler. I don't think so. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever suspected a person with whom you were 
acquainted of being a Communist ? 

Mr. Adler. There were people in London at the London School of 
Economics. 

Mr. Russell. In the States, those persons I have named. 

Mr. Adler. I had no reason to suspect them of being Communists. 

Mr. Russell. You never did suspect the Silvermasters ? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever discussed the allegations made by Eliza- 
beth Bentley or Whittaker Chambers with any of the persons I have 
named tliis morning, other than possibly your attorney ? 

Mr. Adler. I don't think so. Let me say I have respected confi- 
dences. For instance, I was told that what happened in the grand 
jury was strictly confidential. My interrogation by the FBI was 
strictly confidential. My interrogation by Treasury was confidential. 
I have never violated those confidences. 

Mr. Russell. What you told the grand jury and the FBI and 
Treasury has no bearing on the question I asked you : Did you ever 
discuss the allegations made by Elizabeth Bentley or Whittaker Cham- 
bers with any of the persons I have named this morning? In other 
words, did you discuss them with Abraham George Silverman? 

Mr. Adler. No. 

Mr. Russell. Sol Lischinsky ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1751 

Mr. Adler. No; because I haven't seen him since the allegations 
were made. 

Mr, Russell. Harold Glasser, Frank Coe, Victor Perlo, or Charles 
Kramer ? 

Mr. Adler. I have seen Frank Coe and his wife, and in the presence 
of his wife and my wife we may have made general comments. 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall the nature of the comments? 

Mr. Adler. Not specifically. 

Mr. Russell. How about Harold Glasser? Did you ever discuss 
the nature of the charges with him ? 

Mr. Adler. No ; I have not. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever used any other name besides Solomon ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes, I have ; my Hebrew name, Shelomoh. 

Mr. Russell. You testified here about people you met in 1934. 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. You recalled in some cases where you had met them ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. In 1941, according to your testimony, you mailed a 
post card to William Luclwig Ullmann from Honolulu ? 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. You have gone back several years and recalled when 
you last saw certain individuals. 

Mr. Adler. Yes. 

Mr. Russell. And it seems peculiar that you cannot remember 
whether you ever saw photographic equipment in the basement of 
Ulhnann's home. 

Mr. Adler. I may well have seen it, I am sure it was there. I am 
not trying to hide. But at this moment I do not recall having seen it. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, I suggest this witness be retained 
under subpena and be asked to return Thursday morning at 10 : 30. 

Mr. Wood. Day after tomorrow ? 

Mr. Russell. Yes, 

Mr. Wood. Very well. You will return at 10 : 30 Thursday 
morning. 

Until that time, do you have any further witnesses ? 

Mr. Russell. No. 

Mr. Wood. The committee stands adjouned until Thursday morn- 
ing at 10 : 30. 

(Thereupon, at 12 : 15 p. m. on Tuesday, April 25, 1950, an adjourn- 
ment was taken until Thursday, April 27, 1950, at 10 : 30 a. m.) 



HEAEINGS EECtAKDING COMMUNISM IN THE 
UNITED STATES GOVEKNMENT— PART I 



SATURDAY, APRIL 29, 1950 

United States House of Representatives, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

EXECUTIVE session 

Washington, D. G. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant, to call, at 10 : 30 a. m. in room 226, 
Old House Office Building, Washington, D. C, Hon. John S. Wood 
(chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man), Morgan M. Moulder, and Bernard W. Kearney. 

Stall' members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Louis 
J. Russell, senior investigator; William A, Wheeler, Courtney E. 
Owens, and William Jackson Jones, investigators ; and John W. Car- 
rington, clerk. 

Mr. Wood. Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; Mr. Chairman. The witness this morning is 
Mr. Bridgman. 

JNIr. Wood. Will you stand and be sworn, Mr. Bridgman. 

Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this subcommittee 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God^ 

Mr. Bridgman. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. Let the record disclose that the hearing 
this morning is being conducted before a subcommittee composed oi 
Mr. Wood, Mr, Moulder, and Mr. Kearney. 

TESTIMONY OF HOWARD ALLEN BRIDGMAN 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bridgman, the matter under consideration this 
morning involves an employee of the United States who, according to 
sworn testimony, actively engaged in espionage in behalf of the So- 
viet Government. The committee has found it necessary to subpena 
you for the purpose of inquiring as to your knowledge of the activities 
of this individual ; so your assistance and cooperation as a loyal citizen 
in developing the true facts is solicited. 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name ? 

Mr. Bridgman. My name is Howard Allen Bridgman. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your present address ? 

Mr. Bridgman. 6 Lawlor Road, Medford, Mass. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born ? 

1753 



1754 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Bridgman. I was born in Brookline, Mass., on August 25, 1911. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Will you state briefly for the committee your edu- 
cational background ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I am a graduate of Amherst College in Amherst, 
Mass., in the class of 1933. I have the degree of Master 'of Arts from 
Harvard University, which I attended from 1938 through 1940. I 
am currently writing a doctor of philosophy dissertation for Harvard 
University. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly what your occupation record 
has been since obtaining your master's degree. 

Mr. Bridgman. Since obtaining my master's degree? I was in- 
structor at Brown University in Providence, R. I., while working for 
completion of my master's degree, which I took that same year. 

Mr. Tavenner. What year was that? 

Mr. Bridgman. That was the academic year 1940^1. 

Mr. Tavenner. I expect we had better go back to an earlier date. 
When did you obtain your bachelor of arts degree? 

Mr. Bridgman. In 1933. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then will you state your record of employment since 
that date? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. I was employed by the Affiliated Schools 
for Workers, now known as the Labor Education Service, in 1934, 
for a project of developing workers' education in North Carolina. I 
went from that to be supervisor of workers' education in North Caro- 
lina for the Federal Emergency Relief Administration in 1934 and 
1935. 

I went to the Tennessee Valley Authority in January 1936, where 
I remained employed until the fall of 1937. I was then employed by 
the Eastern Cooperative League from the fall of 1937 through June 
of 1938. That is a consumer cooperative organization. 

Then, in 1940, I was instructor at Brown University in Providence, 
E. I. From the fall of the year 1941-42, I was instructor in eco- 
nomics at Connecticut College in New London, Conn. 

In the fall of 1942 I came to the War Manpower Commission, with 
which I remained until June 1943. 

Since 1946 I have been assistant professor of economics at Tufts 
College in Medford, Mass. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you are presently so employed ? 

]^Ir. Bridgman. I am presently so employed ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bridgman, have you ever been a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I have ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Tavenner, may I interpolate? Between 1943 and 
1946 he did not state what his employment was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I am coming to that. 

How long were you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I was a member of the Communist Party from De- 
cember 1936 to September 1939. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you resign or sever your connections with the 
Communist Party in 1939 ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I did, sir. I severed my connections at the outbreak 
of the Second World War. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Then, after severing your connections with the 
Communist Party, did you engage in military service? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1755 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. I was in the Navy during the war. 

Mr. Tavenner. From what date to what date? 

Mr. Bridgman. I was commissioned a lieutenant junior grade in 
the United States Naval Reserve in about June of 1943. I went on 
active duty in August 1943. I attended indoctrination school and 
communication school, and served as ship's communication officer of 
the U. S. S. Gilliam APA 57. This was an attack transport, and 
we participated in the invasions of Leyte and Okinawa. 

In the summer of 1945 I returned, still in the Navy, to Boston, where 
I remained for nearly 12 months at Headquarters, First Naval Dis- 
trict, doing general personnel work. 

Mr. Tavenner. This record of service in the Navy, which is a 
very fine record 

Mr. Bridgman. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was after you had severed your connection with 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. It was, sir. 

Mr. Wood. May I interpolate? When were you discharged from 
the Navy ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I am still in the Naval Reserve, sir, on inactive 
duty. 

Mr. Kearney. When were you relieved from active duty? 

Mr. Bridgman. I was relieved from active duty in August 1946. 
May I correct that ? My terminal leave expired in August of 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee the circumstances 
under which you joined the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. I was approached by an organizer from the Com- 
munist Party in the city of Knoxville, Tenn., in the late fall of 1936. 
He urged me to join, and I did join that party in December of that 
year. The manner of joining was very informal. I was asked, I 
accepted, and then I started to attend party meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the party organizer who solicited your 
membership ? 

Mr. Bridgman. He was known to me as Pat Todd. 

Mr. Wood. Who? 

Mr. Bridgman. Pat Todd. His full name was Merwin Todd. 
"Pat" was the nickname by which he went. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bridgman, I hand you a photograph which 
I shall ask be marked "Bridgman exhibit 1" for identification only, 
and ask you if you can identify it? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. I identify that as Pat Todd. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the photograph in evidence and 
have it marked "Bridgman exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. Without objection, it will be admitted. 

(The photograph above referred to, marked "Bridgman exhibit 
No. 1," is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Tavenner. You were a member of the Communist Party until 
1939? 

Mr. Bridgman. I was, sir. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you state the circumstances under which you 
severed your connection with the party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I had been on leave of absence from a unit of the 
party since the spring of 1939. In September, at the outbreak of the 



1756 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Second World War, tliey called me in and asked me whether I was 
with them or not, and I said "No." 

Mr. Tavenner. What unit of the Comnmnist Party was that which 
had given you a leave of absence? 

Mr. Bridgman. That was a brancli of the party in Cambridge, Mass. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was (he designation of that branch? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. And who were "they"' to whom you refer as having 
asked you whether you were with them or not? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall the j)eople who asked me the question. 
I recall a girl named Margot Clark who was in the organization, but 
I did not know the others well enough to recall their names. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. Your principal contact with the Communist Party 
had been at Knoxville, Tenn., I believe. 

Mr. Bridgman. That is true, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you leave Knoxville, Tenn., for Massa- 
chusetts? 

Mr. Bridgman. I left in the fall of 1937 and went to New York. 

Mr. Taa'enner. Going back to the time that you first became a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party at the time you were recruited by Pat 
Todd, how were you employed ? 

Mr. Bridgman. How I was employed? 

Mr. Turner. Yes. How were you employed at the time you were 
recruited by Pat Todd ? 

Mr. Bridgman. At the time that I was recruited into the Communist 
Party I was an employee of the Tennessee Valley Authority. At that 
time I was becoming a file clerk within that organization, having just 
been a messenger. I remained as a file clerk during the rest of my 
employment with the Authority. 

Mv. Tavenner. Were you assigned to a cell or branch of the party 
when you united with it ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. I was assigned to what I understood as the 
local branch, Knoxville branch, of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did it have any further designation. 

Mr. Brtdgman. It was known as a branch with, I believe, the number 
"1," but I am not sure. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you then attend Communist Party meetings as 
a member of that branch? 

Mr. Bridgman. I did, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVho were the other members of that branch ? 

Mr. Bridgman. The other members of that branch wiiose names 
I recall were, William Walter Remington, Pat Todd 

]\Ir. Wood. When you speak of Pat Todd, do you refer to Merwin 
Todd? 

Mr. Brid'^.man. I do. A girl known to me as Betty Malcom, Mabel 
Abercrombie, Muriel Speare, later Muriel Borah, later Muriel Wil- 
liams. 

Mr. Kearney. What are these names, aliases or remarriages? 

Mr. Bridgman. Marriages. She married Bernard Borah and was 
divorced and married Williams. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have named five individuals. Can you recall 
others ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1757 

Mr. Bridgman. There were two brothers, named Francis and David 
Martin, one of whom, I believe, was a member of this branch, al- 
though I am not positive. 

Mr. JNIouLDER. As to which one, you mean ? 

Mr. Bridgman. As to which one or as to whether he was a member. 

Mr. Moulder. Both? 

Mr. Bridgman. Both. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall the names of any other persons ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I recall the name of Laurent Frantz. That is all I 
can immediately recall. 

Mr. Wood. Who was that last person you said you recall? 

Mr. Bridgman. Laurent Frantz, L-a-u-r-e-n-t F-r-a-n-t-z. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how these various persons were em- 
ployed at that time? Were they all employed by the same employer? 
If they were not, I will ask you about each one individually. 

Mr. Bridgman. It is my recollection, with the exception of Laurent 
Frantz and one of the Martin boys, the persons whom I have just 
mentioned were all employed by the Tennessee Valley Authority. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the name of Henry Hart ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir ; I do. Henry Hart was a member of this 
branch and was an employee of the Tennessee Valley Authority. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is a list of seven persons, four of whom are men 
and three of whom, I believe, are women. The first person you men- 
tioned was William Remington. When did you first meet William 
Eemington ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I met William Remington first in the fall of 1937, 
when he had come to be an employee of the Tennessee Valley Au- 
thority. 

Mr. Ta\^enner. Did you learn from what place he came when he 
came to the Tennessee Valley Authority? 

Mr. Bridgman. It is my understanding, sir, he came from Dart- 
mouth College, where he was a student, and he was spending a year 
at the Tennessee Valley Authority between, I believe, his sophomore 
and junior ye,ars at college. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was his employment with the Tennessee Val- 
ley Authority ; do you recall ? 

Mr. Bridgman. He was employed as a messenger. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you learn to know him before you became a 
member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he ever speak to you on Communist Party mat- 
ters before you became a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall that he did, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you state to this committee whether Reming- 
ton, to your knowledge, was a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. William Remington was a member of 
the Communist Party and attended branch meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many meetings did you attend at which he 
was present? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall the exact number. I should estimate 
five or six. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he hold any position of any character within 
the Communist Party ? 

67052— 50— pt. 1 5 



1758 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Bridgman. Not to my recollection. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell the committee any Communist activity 
on the part of Remington which would further identify his member- 
ship in the party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall any specific party activity that he 
did outside of the branch meetings; that is, specific activity for the 
party. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. What part did he play in the holding of branch 
Communist Party meetings? 

Mr. Bridgman. He took an active part in the holding of the branch 
meetings. I do not recall anything that he said, but I remember his 
manner of speaking, which was forceful, and with head bowed and 
with hands this way [indicating], out front. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall how long he had been at Knoxville 
prior to your joining the party, or whether he came after you joined 
the party ? 

Mv. Bridgman. He came to Knoxville in the fall of 1936, prior to 
my joining the party in December of that year. I believe I said he 
came to Knoxville in 1937. I should like to state that William Rem- 
ington came to Knoxville to work for the Tennessee Valley Authority 
in the fall of 1936. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you referred to the year 1937 in your earlier tes- 
timony, you were in error as to that ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I was; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any means of knowing whether or 
not Remington was a member of the Communist Party before he 
came to Knoxville, or at the time he came there ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I have no means of knowing ; no, sir. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. These 5 or 6 meetings which you stated you attended 
at which Remington was present, will you state where those meetings 
were held and identify the time as nearly as you can ? 

Mr. Bridgman. These meetings to which I refer were held at the 
home of Betty Malcom in the evening. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere was her home located? 

Mr. Bridgman. Her home was located in the area of the city just 
north of the campus of the University of Tennessee, I believe it was 
on either Highland Avenue or Laurel Avenue. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you be able to identify the home if you saw 
a picture of it ? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir, I would not, since to the best of my recollec- 
tion it was an upstairs apartment, and I do not picture the house in 
my mind. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photograph which I will ask to have 
marked "Bridgman exhibit No, 2" for identification only, and ask 
if you can identify the pliotograph? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. That is Betty Malcom. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce the photograph in evidence 
and have it marked "Bridgman exhibit No. 2." 

Mr. Wood. Without objection, it may be admitted. 

(The photograph above referred to, marked "Bridgman exhibit 
No. 2," is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Betty Malcom's husband ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I knew him slightly. As I recall his name, it was 
Kenneth Malcombre. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1759 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him as a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. I knew him as a member of the Communist Party, 
ahhougli he was not a member of this branch. 

Mr. Ta^-enxer. How did you know hnn to be a member of the 
Comnumist Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. I recall one time in the lobby of the New Sprankle 
Building of the Tennessee Valley Authority, Mr. Malcombre spoke to 
me froni the doorway of the lunch room about a certain individual, 
and said approximately as follows: "He would be a good member 
of the party." 

Mr. Taat:nner. Do you know whether he held the position of 
organizer of the Communist Party prior to Pat Todd ? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir. I do not recall his being actually an official 
organizer for the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Going back to the meetings which you say you 
attended at the home of I3etty Malcom, will you state who else attended 
those meetings in addition to William Remington ? 

]Mr. Bridgman. I recall best, sir, the early meetings. Those who 
attended, other than Mr. Remington, were : Betty Malcom, Pat Todd, 
Henry Hart, and myself. 1 do not recall, actually picture, the others 
whose names I have mentioned at meetings at that apartment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet at any other time or place when 
William Remington was present, that is, as a Communist? 

Mr. Briugmax. I do not recall meeting at any other place where 
William Walter Remington was present as a member. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. Is there anything else you can recall relating to 
William Remington's activity as a member of the Communist Party, 
or any incident, which would be further proof of his Communist Party 
membership ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. I recall one incident in which he was 
explaining some point and the organizer for the Communist Party 
for the State, Ted Wellman, said to him words to this effect : "Bill, you 
are being too intellectual about this." 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photograph which I will ask to have 
marked for identification only as "Bridgman Exhibit No. 3," and ask 
if you can identify the person whose picture is found there ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I identify that as Ted Wellman. 

Mr. Tavenner. The person who was the State organizer at the time ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce the photograph in evidence as 
Bridgman Exhibit No. 3. 

Mr. Wood. It will be admitted. 

(The photograph above referred to, marked "Bridgman Exhibit No. 
3," is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Wood. I understand when you refer to State organizer you mean 
State organizer for the State of Tennessee ? 

]\Ir. Bridgman. That was my understanding. 

Mr. Tavenner. For the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was his correct name Theodore F. Wellman? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall that full name. 

Mr. Wood. He was known to you as Ted Wellman ? 



1760 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT' 

Mr. Bridgman. He was known to me as Ted Wellman, Mr. Chair- 
man, and that is all I recollect. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not William Remington 
returned to Dartmouth College ? 

Mr. Bridgman. May I answer that question in two parts, sir? I 
recall, to the best of my memory, that Mr. Remington severed his 
employment with the Tennessee Valley Authority in the spring of 
1937, but remained in Knoxville doing general organizational work in 
the labor field, but his actual position I do not recall. Answering the 
second pan of that question, I do not recall Mr. Remington's returning 
to Dartmouth in the fall of 1937, because that was at the time I 
severed my connection with the Tennessee Valley Authority, but I 
believe, and to the best of my understanding, he did return to Dart- 
mouth at that time. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did you hear a discussion, or take part in a discus- 
sion, among Communist members, with regard to the reason for Mr. 
Remington returning to Dartmouth College ? 

Mr. Bridgmax. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Excuse me a moment, Mr. Tavenner, General Kearney 
wants to ask a question. 

Mr. Kearxey. In response to counsel's question, Mr. Bridgman, 
you stated that Remington left the employ of the Tennessee Valley 
Authority and became engaged in labor work. 

Mr. Bridgmax. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. Labor organizational work? 

Mr. Bridgmax. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kearxey. Will you describe a little more fully to the com- 
mittee what kind of organizational work he was doing, and for whom ? 

Mr. Bridgmax. I did not know that specifically. I do not recall 
the exact organizations with which he worked, or whether he was 
doing it for the Communist Party or not. The only specific thing 
I remember is a trip he made on his motorcycle to Harlan County, 
Ky., on a personal errand for a resident of Knoxville who used to 
live in Harlan County, which was quite a dramatic trip, but I do not 
believe that had anything to do with labor organizational work or 
with Communist Party work. 

Mr. Kearxey. To refresh your memory somewhat, did you ever tell 
anyone that Remington was engaged in organizational work for the 
CIO Textile Workers? 

Mr. Bridgmax. I do not recall that, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavexner. As I understood you to say, you recall no discussion 
among Communist members regarding the return of AVilliam Rem- 
ington to Dartmouth College ? 

Mr. Bridgmax. I recall no discussion. It was my impression that 
he was returning to Dartmouth College in the fall of 1937. 

Mr. Tavexner. Returning to the question of the organizational 
work in labor which was referred to by you, do you recall whether 
any incident occurred involving Remington in a labor dispute or any 
alleged violation of law relating to his activities? 

Mr. Bridgmax. I do not recall that, sir. I believe he had some 
contact, though, in the local union of Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers 
in the Knox County or east Temiessee area. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1761 

Mr. Ta\:enner. Wliere did William Remington live while you Imew 
him? 

Mr. Bridgman. William Remington lived first with Henry Hart. 
They were roommates. Later, I am not positive where he lived ; pos- 
sibly he lived with Pat Todd. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever visit his room ? 

Mr. Brtdgman. I attended one Communist Party meeting that I 
recall at Pat Todd's residence, and in that sense would have visited 
his room, but otherwise I do not recall visiting Mr. Remington's 
room. 

Mr. Wood. Was he present at that meeting? 

Mr. BRmcMAN. I do not recall that, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where Todd lived ? Can you give us 
the street address? 

IVIr. Bridginian. Pat Todd lived on Broadway, or in that immediate 
neighborhood of Knoxville. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Bernard Borah and Horace Bryan ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I knew them both, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not Horace Bryan, Wil- 
liam Remington, Pat Todd, and Bernard Borah lived in the same 
apartment house on North Broadway in Knoxville ? 

Mr. Bridgman. To my knowledge Pat Todd and Horace Bryan 
lived there. I do not recollect that Bernard Borah lived there ; and 
William Remington possibly stayed there when he was in town. I am 
referring to the period after Remington had severed his connection 
with the Tennesse Valley Authority. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photograph which I will ask to have 
marked for identification as "Bridgman Exhibit No. 4," and ask if you 
can identify the person pictured there? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. I identify that person as Horace Bryan, 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce that photograph in evidence as 
"Bridgman Exhibit No. 4." 

Mr. Wood. It will be admitted. 

(The photograph above referred to, marked "Bridgman Exhibit 
No. 4," is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state whether or not these two persons, 
Horace Bryan and Bernard Borah, were members of the Communist 
Party, to your knowledge? 

Mr. Bridgman. To my knowledge Horace Bryan was. Bernard 
Borah was, when I first knew him, an active member of the Socialist 
Party in Knoxville. It was my impression toward the end of my stay 
there that he had gone over to the Communist Party. 

Mr. Kearney. Of your own knowledge do you know that, or is that 
supposition on your part ? 

Mr. Bridgman. General conversation, sir, about that time. 

Mr. Kearney. You mean he told you he was a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir; Bernard Borah did not tell me he was a 
member of the Communist Party, nor do I recollect anyone saying he 
was, but there seemed to be general discussions among members that 
Borah was. 

Mr. Kearney. You mean from the conversations you might have 
had with Borah you got the feeling he might have been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 



1762 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Bridgman. From conversations I had with other people I gained 
the impression that he was in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Kearney. Can you name these members you had conversations 
with who stated Borah was a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir; I cannot. 

Mr. Tavenxer. You referred, in your earlier testimony, to Francis 
Martin. I do not recall whether you definitely identified him as a 
member of the Communist Party. Let me ask you this question : Do 
you know whether or not he was secretary of the Knox County 
section of the Communist Partj^ ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall his being secretary of the Knox 
County section of the Conmiunist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned the name of INIabel Abercrcmbie as 
being one of those persons who met with you at C'onmiunist Party 
meetings at the home of Betty JVIalcolm, who later became Betty Todd ; 
is that correct ^ 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall INIabel Abercrombie attending meet- 
ings of the Communist Party at that location. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee how you know her to 
be a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I knew Mabel Abercrombie quite well, and from 
day-to-day contact around Knoxville, working in the same organiza- 
tion, that is, working for the Authority, I was very cognizant that she 
was a member of the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting 
with her at any place ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not specifically recall a Community Party 
meeting where she was present. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you Imow Hugh W. Urban? 

Mr. Bridgman. I did, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. To my knowledge, sir, Hugh Urban was not a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold any position at any time within the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bhidgman. I held no position within the Communist Party at 
Knoxville, Tenn. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were never a member of the county committee 
of the Communist Party at Knox County, Tenn. ? . 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were never a member of the county committee 
of the Communist Party in Knox County, Tenn. ^ 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall specifically the members of the county 
committee of tlie Communist Party in Knox County, Tenn., but I 
believe tliat Pat Todd was a member of that committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was an All-Southern Conference of the Conm^iunist 
Party held on September 11 and 12, 1937? 

Mr. Bridgman. I recall attending one general conference at Chat- 
tanooga, Tenn., but I do not recall its purpose nor its name, nor do 
I recall the date or time. I do not believe this was that meeting, inas- 
much as I left Knoxville about that time. 

Mr. TA^^=:NNER. I hand you a copy of Draft Resolution, County 
Committee, Communist Party, Knox County and Report of Knox 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1763 

County Organizer on All-Soutliern Conference, Communist Party, 
September 11-12, 1937, which I asked be marked for identification only 
as "Bridgman Exhibit No. 5," and ask if that freshes your recollec- 
tion of whether you received at any time or saw a copy of those 
resolutions ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall seeing a copy of these resolutions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then I will reserve that for a future witness. 

(The documents above referred to, marked "Bridgman Exhibit No. 
6" for identification only, are filed herewith.) 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned the name of Laurent Frantz as a 
member of the Communist Party. How was Laurent Frantz 
■employed ? 

Mr. Bridgman. He was not employed, to my recollection, by the 
Tennessee Valley Authority, and I do not recall his employment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you identify him by any further description? 

Mr. Bridgman. I recall his being very round-faced, baby-faced. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photograph, which I asked be marked 
for identification only as "Bridgman Exhibit No. 6," and ask if you 
-can identify the person pictured there ? 

Mr. Bridgman. That is Laurent Frantz. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to ofi'er that photograph in evidence as 
"Bridgman Exhibit No. 6." 

Mr. Wood. It will be admitted. 

(The photograph above referred to, marked "Bridgman Exhibit 
No. 6," is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Mr. W. R. Taylor ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall the name, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall at any time a visit to Knoxville of an 
■official of the Communist Party from Alabama in connection with 
Communist activities in Nashville ? 

Mr.BRiDGMAN. I do not recall, sir. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. I hand you a photograph which I will ask to have 
marked for identification only as "Bridgman Exhibit No. 7," and ask 
if you can identify the person pictured there as a person you have ever 
seen or known ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I cannot identify this picture, sir. 

(The photograph above referred to, marked "Bridgman Exhibit 
No. 7" for identification only, is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Harold Ealston ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall the name, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner, I hand you a photograph which I ask to have 
marked for identification only as "Bridgman Exhibit No. 8," and ask 
you whether or not you can identify that person ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I cannot identify this picture, sir. 

(The photograph above referred to, marked "Bridgeman Exhibit 
No. 8" for identification only, is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Ta\tenner. I hand you another photograph, which I ask be 
marked "Bridgman Exhibit No. 9'' for identification only, and ask if 
you can identify the person whose photograph appears there as a 
person known by you at any time ? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir. 

(The photogi-aph above referred to, marked "Bridgman Exhibit 
No. 9" for identification only, is filed herewith.) 



1764 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you another photograph, marked for iden- 
tification only as "Bridgman Exhibit No. 10," and ask if you have 
ever seen that individual whose photograph appears there? 

Mr. Bridgman. I cannot place the photograph, sir. 

(The photogra]ih above referred to, marked "Bridgman Exhibit 
No. 10" for identification only, is filed herewith. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever know Paul Crouch ? 

Mr, Bridgman. I have heard the name, but I do not recall ever 
meeting him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know a person by the name of Cecil 
Wigges ? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. While you were connected with the Communist 
Party at Knoxville, Tenn., were you associated in any manner with 
an organization known as Workers Education ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir ; I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee about that, please ? 

Mr. Bridgman. The Workers Education organization was a pro- 
gram which was sponsored by the Union of Government Employees 
at the Authority, and, in particular, by the education committee of 
that union, of which I was the chairman. This committee raised a 
sum of money by the showing of foreign moving-picture films, for 
the purpose of an educational program among workers in the area. 
When it came time to select a person to run the program and teach the 
classes, the question was discussed both within the education commit- 
tee and within the Communist Party. 

(Representative Moulder leaves hearing room.) 

Mr. Brtogman (continuing). Horace Bryan was selected to head 
this work, and was approved for it by the Communist Party, and then, 
with my help and leadership, the committee of the union decided to 
employ him for this purpose. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, the Communist Party, in effect, set 
up and organized this organization? 

Mr. Bridgman. It determined the policy in choosing the person to 
run this program. The program was already decided upon in advance 
by the union. The party came in in choosing the person to do it. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have mentioned in the course of your testi- 
mony the name of Bernard Borah, and you have also mentioned the 
name of Muriel Speare. Did Muriel Speare marry Bernard Borah ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir ; she did. 

Mr. Tavenner. And then later became Muriel Speare Borah Wil- 
liams ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you testified whether or not Muriel Speare 
Borah Williams was a member of the Communist Party? If not, I 
would like to ask you that question now. 

Mr. Bridgman. She was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you know that? 

Mr. Bridgman. I know that because I knew her personally very well, 
and from day-to-day contact, doing the same type of things together, 
I knew that she was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether a Communist Party meeting 
was ever held in her home, attended by you? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall that. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1765 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Keturning for a moment to the Workers Education 
organization, I am not certain that I understood the full extent to 
which the Communist Party was responsible for the policies of that 
organization and the carrying of such policies into effect. Will you 
describe that a little more in detail ? 

Mi\ Bridgman. The Communist Party was responsible for the selec- 
tion of Mr. Bryan. Beyond that, I can add nothing, since I do not 
recall discussing with Mr. Bryan either the conduct of his courses 
or where he was teaching. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you state whether or not the courses which were 
taught carried the Communist Party line? 

Mr. Bridgman. I cannot state this. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was the last time that you saw William 
Walter Remington ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I last saw William Walter Remington during the 
late fall and winter of 1942-43 in Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at that time have any discussion with him 
on the subject of communism, or make any reference to Communist 
Party membership ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall the language used, but in walking 
down a corridor I indicated to him that I had changed my views, and 
my impression is that he reciprocated the same feeling. ^ 

Mr. Kearney. You mean that he had changed his views also ? 

Mr. Bridgman. That was my impression, sir. 

Mr- Tavenner. Did you know a person by the name of Jacob Golos? 
Did you ever meet him ? 

Mr. Bridgman. No ; I never met him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know an individual by the name of Harry 
Chick Alber? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he have any connection or aflfiliation with the 
Communist Party to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Bridgman. My impression is that he was a member, but I have 
no specific evidence or recollection to back that up. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Henry Thornton? 

Mr. BRmcMAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know V. V. Paul? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner, Do you know Frank C. Wliite ? 

Mr. BRrooMAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. John Marshall Frantz? 

Mr. Bridgman. He was the brother of Laurent Frantz. I do not 
recall his being a Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. John C. Borden, Jr. ? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Kenneth B. Tallev ? 

Mr. Brtogman. No, sir. 

Mv. Tavenner. Do you desire to make any statement to the com- 
mittee as to the reasons why you decided to withdraw from the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do, sir. I had been becoming, during the period 
of my membersliip, increasingly dissatisfied with the work of the 
Communist Party. Further, I had, through my graduate work at 



1766 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Harvard University in economics, come to realize that the doctrines 
which are espoused, or were espoused, by the Communist Party were 
but a small footnote in the <ieneral line of economic and social think- 
ing, I gained from my work at Harvard an intellectual foundation 
which easily refuted all the theories of the Communist Party. I felt, 
moreover, tliat world conditions were changing, and at the time of the 
Hitler-Stalin Pact that the cards were down and that it was necessary 
finally to make a choice, which had been a delayed choice, between my 
country and the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney. 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Bridgman, was this realization, or j^our change 
of attitude toward the Communist Party, inspired more or less due to 
your desire to obtain a commission in the United States Navy? 

Mr. Bridgman. No; because I left the Communist Party in Sep- 
tember of 1939, and did not think about getting a commission in the 
United States Navy until considerably later. 

Mr. Kearney. When you became a member of the commissioned 
personnel of the Navy, were you ever asked the question as to whether 
you had ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall, sir, having been asked that question. 

Mr. Kearney. There was some reference in your testimony con- 
cerning a talk with a woman in Cambridge who stated words in sub- 
stance as follows : "Are you with us or against us ?" 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes. 

Mr. Kearney. What was the name of that woman again? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall if she was the one who put that 
question or that she was there when the question was put, nor do I 
remember the exact language used. 

Mr. Kearney. This was in Cambridge? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes. Her name was Margot Clark. 

Mr. Kearney. Who is Margot Clark ? 

Mr. Bridgman. She is the daughter of Sue Ainsley Clark. 

Mr. Kearney. She is a resident of Cambridge ? 

Mr. Bridgman. She was at that time. 

Mr. Kearney. This organizational group at Cambridge, was that 
known as a cell ? 

Mr. Bridgman. To the best of my recollection, that was known as 
a branch. 

Mr. Kearney. Can you give the committee the number of that 
branch ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I believe there were 8 to 10 members. 

Mr. Kearney. The number of the branch ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not remember the number of the branch. 

Mr. Kearney. In those days a member of the Communist Party 
was a card-carrying member; isn't that so? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. And you had a card issued to you ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I had a card; yes. 

Mr. Kearney. What was your card number ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall the number. 

Mr. Kearney. Do you have the card? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1767 

Mr. Bridgman. To the best of my knowledge, I do not. It may 
possibly be somewhere in my files, but I do not believe it is, because I 
probably handed it in when I quit. 

Mr. Kearney. You first became a member of the so-called Knoxville 
branch ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. Were you an officer of that branch ? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir; I was not. 

Mr. Kearney. Caji you tell the committee approximately how 
many members belonged to that branch ? 

Mr. Bridgman. When it was first formed, sir, there were about 
four members. Later the number of members grew in size, but I 
do not recall specifically. I would say possibly 12 to 20. 

Mr. Kearney. Were they all employees of the TVA ? 

Mr. Bridgman. As I recall, they were a mixed group. 

Mr. Kearney. Was William Remington a member of the original 
group ? 

Mr. Bridgman. He was. 

Mr. Kearney. Is that the same William Remington who is now 
employed in Government in the Department of Commerce? 

Mr. BRmGMAN. That is the same man, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. Is that the same William Remington who brought 
action against a Miss Elizabeth Bentley, if you know, for calling him, 
in committee, a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. He is the same William Remington against whom 
Miss Bentley has testified. 

Mr. Kearney. Then you wouldn't have any information of your 
own knowledge concerning this suit brought by Remington against 
Miss Bentley ? 

Mr. Bridgman. No ; I wouldn't. 

Mr. Kearney. The papers stated, a day or so ago, that settlement 
had been made out of court. 

Mr. Bridgman. I don't know. 

Mr. Kearney. When you became a member of the Cambridge 
branch, did that mean an actual transfer from the Knoxville branch 
to the Cambridge branch ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall whether that was a transfer or, shall 
I say, reactivation, because I had not been attached to any branch from 
the time I severed my connection with TVA to the time I joined this 
Cambridge branch. 

Mr. Kearney. When you left the Knoxville branch, were you told 
to contact anyone in particular in the Cambridge branch ? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir; because I spent a period of work in New 
York at the time. 

Mr. Kearney. And that gave you the necessary information as to 
who the members of the Cambridge branch were ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I knew who Margot Clark was. 

Mr. Kj:arney. Was she an officer of the Cambridge branch? 

Mr. Brtogman. To the best of my recollection, she was not. 

Mr. Kearney. Were you an officer of the Cambridge branch ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I was treasurer of the Cambridge branch. 

Mr. Kearney. Were you at any time an officer of the Knoxville 
branch ? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir ; I was not. 



1768 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATE'S GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Kearney. Now, Mr. Bridgman, in tliese various meetings that 
you have testified to that you attended as a member of tlie Communist 
Party, Comnmnist Party meetings, was there any particular discus- 
sion concerning the overthrow of the Government by force or violence? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recollect any such discussion, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. But you did know that was the platform of the Com- 
munist Party? 

]\Ir. Bridgman. I knew, sir, that there were certain Marxist theories 
which were along that line, but tlie actual work which was being 
undertaken was of a very immediate and direct nature. 

Mr. Kearney. What were some of the discussions that took place 
in these various meetings held by the Knoxville branch or Cambridge 
branch ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Such matters as trade-union organization and CIO. 

Mr. Kearney. By that do you mean that there should be an infiltra- 
tion into labor unions by the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I mean that labor unions should grow. This was 
during the time labor unions were growing very rapidly. At the same 
time, the Communist Party had a doctrine of building the party and 
recruiting new members rapidly. 

Mr. Kearney. During these meetings, or at any time that you 
attended any of these meetings, was any party literature given to 
you to read and study? 

Mr. Bridgman. There was party literature given out. I recall the 
Daily Worker. I recall a pamphlet called the Party Organizer. I 
do not recall specifically other pamphlets, but I am sure that they 
were distributed. 

Mr. Kearney. During any of the meetings of the Communist branch 
in Knoxville, Tenn., was there any talk of organizing the employees, 
so far as possible, of the Tennessee Valley Authority? 

Mr. Bridgman. One of the aims was to increase the membership. 

]Mr. Kearney. What would you say was the highest total member- 
ship in that Communist Party branch at Knoxville? 

Mr. Bridgman. Up to the time I left, the highest total membership 
was up to 20 members, between 12 and 20 members. 

Mr. Kearney. That, in your opinion, would be the highest number, 
the number 20 ? 

Mr. Bridgman. That would be an outside estimate. 

Mr. Kearney. That belonged to the branch at Knoxville? 

Mr. Bridgman. The branch of which I was a member. 

Mr. Kearney. Insofar as the Cambridge branch was concerned, 
what would you say would be the highest number of members in that 
branch? 

Mr. Bridgman. I would say 10. 

Mr. Kearney. This branch at Cambridge — that is Cambridge, 
Mass. ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes. 

Mr. Kearney. Was that a branch of the Communist Party at any 
particular place, such as at the university, or city ? 

Mr. Bridgman. It was a branch within the city. 

Mr. Kearney. Within the city? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes. 

Mr. Kearney. Was there a branch that you Imow of at the uni- 
versity ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1769 

Mr. Bridgman. I believe there was. 

Mr. Kearney. Do you know any members of the university staff who 
were members of the Communist branch at Cambridge? 

Mr. Bridgman. I recall a girl named Sylvia, whose last name I do 
not recall, who was a member of this city branch and who was an 
employee of Harvard University in the library, but I do not know 
of any academic people who were members. 

Mr. Kearney. Either professors or students ? 

Mr. Bridgman. That is right. 

Mr. Kearney. I presume, Mr. Bridgman, you heard or read state- 
ments from William Remington that he never was a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mv. Bridgman. It is my understanding, sir, that he has stated that. 

Mr. Kearney. You realize that you are under oath here? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. And you say definitely and unqualifiedly that Wil- 
liam Remington, who is now an employee of the Department of Com- 
merce, was a member of the Communist Party, and a member of the 
same branch of the Communist Party that you were? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. That was in the years 

Mr. Bridgman. Early 1937. 

Mr. Kearney. Early 1937. Did you ever have any officials of the 
Communist Party, outside of the names indicated in your testimony 
here today, who spoke to your group at any of your meetings? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall any other officials speaking at our 
meetings, sir. 

Mr. Kearney. When you were asked the question by Margot Clark, 
"Are you with us or against us?" what was your answer? 

Mr. Bridgman. May I say this, sir. I do not recall her language. 
I do not recall the language of the person who asked me. But a ques- 
tion was asked as to whether I was going to continue as a member 
or not. 

Mr. Kearney. Why was that question asked you ? 

Mr. Bridgman. My understanding, sir, was that the Communists 
were, shall we say, cleaning house. The war was imminent. They 
were going after their people to see who would continue and who 
would not continue under the new conditions. 

Mr. Kearney. During your testimony, as I recollect, you stated, in 
words or in substance, that insofar as these meetings in Knoxville 
were concerned, you were getting fed up with the whole business. Did 
I understand you to mean those were the labor meetings, or the meet- 
ings of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Well, sir, it was all the meetings. There were a lot 
of things going on in Knoxville, all kinds of meetings and interests. 
And it was the spring of the year and I was sick of organizational 
work. I was becoming, too, increasingly dissatisfied with my position 
as an employee of the Tennessee Valley Authority, and that, I think, 
was the main factor in my beginning to pull away. You see, I took 
leave in the spring, in May, I think it was, to see if I could find another 
job in the Government. 

Mr. Kearney. I believe you also said you obtained a leave of ab- 
sence from the Comnmnist branch at Knoxville? 



1770 COJVIMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Bridgmax. That leave of absence was from the Cambridge 
brunch. 

Mr. Kearxey. Is it a general custom to obtain a leave of absence 
from membership in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bkidgman. I don't think it was. I think it was considered quite 
an unusual thing. But I was studying very hard at the time, and hav- 
ing a difficult time with my studies, and also working on the side, and 
I felt that I just could not go on with the load, so I don't recall just 
what I did, but 

Mr. Kearney. Did that follow your thought that you expressed a 
while ago that you were getting fed up with the whole business? 

Mr. Bridgman. It went along with my thought. 

Mr. Kearney. Was your thought of getting fed up Avith the whole 
business, as you stated, getting fed up with the whole business of being 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Well, now, I said that when I was referring to my 
being at Knoxville, and said the other when I was referring to my being 
at Cambridge. In Cambridge it was my load of work. In Knoxville 
it was being fed up with the whole business, with all this organizational 
work. I got sick of it. 

Mr. Kearney. Organizational work? 

Mr. Bridgman. I mean committee meetings. 

Mr. Kearney. Committee meetings within the Communist Party, 
or committee meetings within your organizational work concerning 
labor unions ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Concerning the latter. 

Mr. Kearney. Concerning labor unions? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes. 

Mr. Kearney. You were not fed up with your work so far as the 
Communist Party was concerned ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Well, it is hard to say, sir. I remained a member. I 
did not pull out as a member, because many of the members were my 
friends. If I had pulled out it would have, in a sense, ostracized me, 
and I just didn't want to break with my friends. 

Mr. Kearney. But eventually you did? 

Mr. Bridgman. Eventually I did. 

Mr. Kearney. And did that mean ostracism from your friends? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, sir. I got new friends. 

Mr. Kearney. From your old friends ? 

Mr. Bridgman. From my old friends ; yes. 

Mr. Kearney. You were ostracized from your old friends? 

Mr. Bridgman. I have had very little contact with the old friends. 

Mr. Kearney. Have you had any contact with any of the old friends, 
or members of the Communist branches to which you belonged, since 
you left the party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. As to the Knoxville branch, I saw Muriel Speare 
later, and I saw Mabel Abercrombie later. I do not recall seeing any 
others later. 

From the Cambridge branch, there was a boy whom I succeeded as 
treasurer, who left there, whom I met about a year later. I think I 
can place it better than that. I met him while I was at Brown in 
1940-41. I met him on the street and, as I recall, our conversation was 
that we had mutually dropped out. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1771 

Mr. Kearney. Your thought, as I understand from your testimony, 
in dropping out of the organization, was that you realized war was 
coming on sooner or later ? 

Mr, Bridgman. Yes. 

Mr, Kearney. Was there any talk in the Communist Party as to 
what the attitude of the party would be in case this country got into 
war? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall any specifically. The whole attitude 
at Knoxville was one, shall we say, internationally speaking, united 
action against fascism, keynoted to the Spanish civil war. 

Mr. Kearney. I am referring to what the Communist Party would 
do in case we got in war. 

Mr. Bridgman. You mean, then, the period in Cambridge later on? 
I do not recall any specific thing, because I was not attending meetings 
at that time. 

Mr. Kearney. Over how long a period did you know William 
Remington ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I knew William Reming-ton from the fall of 1936 
until late spring or summer of 1937. I met him twice subsequently, 
the time I spoke of in 1942-43, and also I ran into him in New York 
when I was in New York in 1938. 

Mr. Kearney. Do you know of your own knowledge whether 
Remington was a member of the Communist Party in 1942 ? 

Mr. Bridgman. At that time, when I indicated to him that I had 
changed my views, I have a general impression that he reciprocated in 
the same way, 

Mr. Kearney. But there isn't any question of a doubt, insofar as 
William Remington is concerned, that this is the same Remington I 
called your attention to a few minutes ago as being an employee in 
the Department of Commerce of the United States Government, and 
that he was a member of the Communist Party in Knoxville, Tenn., 
when you were a member there, and you attended Communist Party 
meetings with him and knew him to be a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. There is no doubt in my mind that he was a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party in Knoxville, Tenn. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Bridgman, was William Remington ever in the 
Navy while you were in the Navy ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I read in the papers that he had received a com- 
mission in the Navy as ensign, but that was only what I read in the 
papers. 

Mr. Wood. You had no contact with him while he was in the Navy, 
if he was ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I had no contact with him. 

Mr. Wood, You stated you knew Henry Hart? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. And knew he was a member of the Communist Party in 
Knoxville ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Did he Imow you ? 

Mr. Bridgman. He knew me ; yes. 

Mr. Wood. Did he know that you were a member of the Communist 
Party? 



1772 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr, Bridgman. I believe he did, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Did he attend Communist Party meetings with you? 

Mr. Bridgman. I recall him at party meetings ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. At the time you were present? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. I asked that question specifically because in his appear- 
ance before this committee in 1940 he was asked this categorical ques- 
tion : "Can you name some persons in the TVA who were members of 
the Communist Party during your membership and attended meet- 
ings?" His answer was : "I was the only member so far as I know in 
the TVA." 

Yet you say you were employed in TVA at the time. He knew you 
were em]>loyed in TVA; didn't he? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. And he attended party meetings with you ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. I believe you said at that time the party was issuing 
cards to its members? 

Mr. Bridgman. I don't recall cards at Knoxville. I recall cards 
at Cambridge. 

Mr. Wood. In the Knoxville branch were dues assessed against 
members ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Members paid dues, and members who could afford 
it also made contributions. 

Mr. Wood. The contributions were on a voluntary basis; is that 
right? 

Mr. Bridgman, Yes, sir, depending on the individual's capacity to 
contribute. 

Mr. Wood. Would they assess those contributions or give some indi- 
cation what they expected members to pay in ratio of their earnings 
or ability to pay ? 

Mr. Bridgman. As I recall, it was $3 or $4 a month plus dues. I re- 
call dues of around $1 a month. 

Mr. Wood. You made some reference to an organization known as 
Workers P]ducation League. What was the exact title ? 

Mr. Bridgman. You mean the earliest organization I worked with? 

Mr. Wood. Yes. 

Mr. Bridgman. Affiliated Schools for Workers, which is now known 
as Labor P^ducation Service. 

Mr. Wood. Was it changed to that name while you were with it? 

Mv. Bridgman. I was with it under the earlier name, 

Mr. Wood. I believe you said that organization raised funds by ex- 
hibiting motion pictures and things of that sort? 

Mr. Bridgman. Those were two different things entirely. The 
Knoxville program was what I was referring to when I talked about 
raising funds. This other organization is a private organization spon- 
sored by many trade-unions. It is a fairly widely recognized work- 
ers' education organization. 

Mr. Wood. What was the organization which raised funds by the 
exhibition of motion pictures? 

Mr. Bridgman. In Knoxville, Tenn., the organization was a sub- 
committee or a parallel committee to the education committee of the 
local union. 

Mr. Wood. Local union of what ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1773 

Mr. Bridgman. Local union of Government employees in the Ten- 
nessee Valley Authority. 

Mr. Wood. And you belonged to that organization ? 

Mr. Bkidgman. I did. 

Mr. Wood. Did all the members of the Communist Party who were 
working at TVA at that time belong to that organization? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Were the members of the Communist Party in control 
of that organization ? 

Mr. Bridgivian. Not in control, sir. They were of influence, but 
there were also other influential people in the organization. 

Mr. Wood. Did members of the Communist Party occupy key posi- 
tions in that organization as officers of trust ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall any members other than myself, 
who was chairman of the education committee. 

Mr. Wood. What character of motion pictures were shown? 

Mr. Bridgman. As I recall, we had two series of foreign films. 

Mr. Wood. When you say foreign, where from ? 

Mr. Bridgman. They were foreign language films. The first series 
is the one I have more in mind. I can't recall the second. To the 
best of my recollection we showed a French film, a Russian film, and 
two German films. I recall a criticism at that time of our committee 
from one of the Jewish organizations in the community for our show- 
ing the German films. 

Mr. Wood. Getting back for a moment to Mabel Abercrombie, do 
you know that Mabel Abercrombie is now married to a man by the 
name of Mansfield? 

Mr. Bridgman. Mansfield, yes, sir; I do. I saw Mabel last in 
the summer of 1945, when she called on me with Mr. Mansfield prior 
to their marrage. At that time I recall her telling me that she 
had dropped out, that she was no longer interested in the Commu- 
nist Party. 

Mr. Wood. Just what did she say ; that she had dropped out of the 
party? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall the exact language that she used, but 
I recall her indicating to me definitely that she had changed her views. 
This was a social call. 

Mr. Wood. When was that ? 

Mr. Bridgman. In the summer of 1945. 

Mr. Wood. And where ? 

Mr. Bridgman. In Milton, Mass., where I was living at that time. 

Mr. Wood. What was she doing there ? 

Mr. Bridgman. She was going through. Her husband-to-be — either 
it was just prior to her marriage or after — had just been discharged 
from the Army, and they were talking about setting up a little tourist 
or resort inn in Vermont. She asked me about what I would recom- 
mend as to her getting into such work, and I believe I spoke to her 
about looking up want ads and the like for jobs in a hotel to get some 
experience. They later went on, I understand, to Hanover Inn, and 
worked there. My later understanding was that she returned to 
Georgia. I had Iniown Mabel pretty well prior to her joining the 
Communist Party. 

67032— 50— pt 1 6 



1774 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Wood. Approximately how many Communist Party meetings 
would you say you attended with her ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I cannot give you an estimate of that. 

Mr. Wood. Was it more than one ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I would say more than one. 

Mr. Wood. And where were they held? At the home of Betty 
Malcom ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I cannot recall her at the home of Betty Malcom. 

Mr. Wood. "Wliere were they held ? Were they in her own home ? 

Mr. Bridgman. No, they were not in her own home. I just can't 
recall, easily, her being at meetings. Perhaps the meetings were at a 
house which a group of five of us fellows had rented for the summer. 

Mr. Wood. Is that your best recollection ? 

Mr. Bridgman. That is my best recollection. 

Mr. Wood. That it was at a house you and four other men had rented 
for the summer ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, 

Mr. Wood. Where the meetings were held which Mabel Abercrombie 
attended ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Just to the best of my recollection, yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Where was that house ? 

Mr. Bridgman. That house was on the edge of Knoxville. I can't 
remember the street, but I would say over in the southeastern part. 

Mr. Wood. Southeastern part of Knoxville ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. What kind of house was it ? 

Mr. Bridgman. It was a residential house owned by a professor 
at the University of Tennessee, and he was going away for the summer, 
and there had been talk of us fellows getting together. Many of us 
were living in single rooms, and we thought it would be fun and 
cheaper. 

Mr. Wood. So you rented the house furnished ? 

Mr. Bridgman. We rented the house furnished. 

Mr. Wood. And kept it over a period of how many months ? 

Mr. Bridgman. For a couple months. Wlien I left Knoxville it was 
just at the end of our having the house. 

Mr. Wood. Mr, Bridgman, is there any doubt about Mabel Aber- 
crombie, now Mrs. Mansfield, being a member of the Communist Party 
in Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr, Bridgman, Yes, sir; I am afraid I will have to say there is 
doubt, because I do not recall anything specific about it. I felt I 
knew her pretty well, 

Mr. Wood. Did she know that you were a member of the party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I believe she did, sir, 

Mr. Wood. As a matter of fact, aren't you positive about that? 
Otherwise, why would she have talked to your about it in Massa- 
chusetts ? 

Mr. Bridgman. That is right. 

Mr. Wood. Then slie did not know you were a member of the party? 

Mr. Bridgman. She must have; yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Did she know that William Remington was a member 
of the party? 

Mr. Bridgman, That I am not sure. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1775 

Mr. Wood. Have you ever seen her at a Communist Party meeting 
•that William Remington attended ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall them both at party meetings, because 
I recall Remington at the earlier meetings but not at the later ones. 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Bridgrnan, as to the names of those individuals 
that you gave in your earlier testimony who attended Communist 
Party meetings in Knoxville, Tenn., they were present at these meet- 
ings, as I understand, at the same time that William Remington at- 
tended those meetings^ 

Mr. BRmoMAN. I shall have to amend my statement, sir, to say this, 
that to my recollection the persons who attended meetings where 
William Remington was present were Betty Malcom, Pat Todd, and 
myself. I cannot recall whether others attended and, if so, who they 
were. 

Mr. Wood. Was Henry Hart present at any of them? 

Mr. Bridgman. I know Henry Hart attended meetings at the house 
of Betty Malcolm, but I do not recall whether Remington was also 
at the same meetings. I don't picture them together. 

Mr, Kearney. But those names which you gave in response to the 
questions of the chairman were also members at that time of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridoman. Those persons, yes. 

Mr. Kearney. As I understand from your testimony, you are now 
teaching at Tufts University ? 

Mr. Bridgman. Tufts College, at Medf ord, Mass. 

Mr. Kearney. What are you teaching there ? 

Mr. Brhx^man. I am teaching economics, sir. I am teaching a 
course in personnel problems and organization and a course in pro- 
duction and price analysis. 

Mr. Wood. Are the authorities of that educational institution cog- 
nizant of your former membership in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bridgman. They were not when I was hired, and I did not tell 
them so until this past week. 

Mr. Wood. But they are now cognizant of that ? 

Mr. Bridgman. They are, the president, the vice president, my de- 
partment head, and whoever else they have told. 

Mr. Wood. Any other questions, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. I failed to ask you, to whom did you pay 
your Communist Party dues when you were in Knoxville ? 

Mr. Bridgman. I don't remember. I don't remember the officers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien you were treasurer in Cambridge, from whom 
did you collect party dues? 

Mr. BRmcMAN. I don't remember the people. I believe the dues 
were collected at meetings, but I don't remember the people. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Permit me, Mr. Bridgman, to express to you the appre- 
ciation of this committee for your cooperation here and to commend 
you for the very courageous stand you have taken with reference to 
what I consider a very serious menace. I commend you for the stand 
you have taken to denounce this cancerous growth to the free people of 
the world, and I hope your appearance here will not mitigate against 
you. 

Mr. Bridgman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



1776 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Wood. I would like to call attention — I am sorry Mr. Moulder 
is not here — to the fact that this is an executive session of this com- 
mittee, to be treated as such by members of the staff as well as mem- 
bers of the committee, and I hope in any interview you may have 
with the press you will not divulge the contents of your testimony. 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will stand adjourned. 

(Thereupon, an adjournment was taken.) 



HEAEINGS EEGARDING COMMUNISM IN THE 
UNITED STATES GOYEKNMENT— PAET I 



THURSDAY, MAY 4, 1950 

United States House or EErRESENTATivES, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

W ashing ton, D. C. 

PUBLIC HEARING — MORNING SESSION 

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 11 a. m. in room 226, Old 
House Office Building, AVashington, D. C, Hon. John S. Wood (chair- 
man) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man), Francis E. Walter, Burr P. Harrison, John McSweeney (ar- 
riving as indicated), Francis Case, Harold H. Velde, and Bernard 
W. Kearney. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Louis J, 
liussell, senior investigator ; Donald T. Appell, William A. "W^ieeler, 
Courtney Owens, and William Jackson Jones, investigators ; Benjamin 
Mandel, director of research ; John W. Carrington, clerk ; and A. S. 
Poore, editor. 

]Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order, please. 

Let the record show that there are present Messrs. Walter, Harrison, 
Case, Velde, Kearney, and Wood, a majority of the committee. 

Mr. Tavenner, have you some witnesses here this morning? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. William Walter Remington. 

]Mr. Wood. Is Mr. William Walter Remington present ? 

(No response.) 

Mr. Tavenner. ]Mr. AA^ieeler, will you call his name in the hall. Mr. 
Owens, will you look in the reception room to make certain that he 
is not there. 

(Investigators Wheeler and Owens leave hearing room, returning 
shortly. ) 

]Mr. Wheeler. There are only 3 people in the hall and none acknowl- 
edged that they were Remington. 

Sir. Owens. I looked in all the committee offices. He is not in any 
of the committee offices. 

Mr. Tavenner. The witness was subpenaed on April 25 to appear 
here on May 11. On April 28 he was advised verbally that the hearing 
had been set up to May 4, and that was confirmed by letter. I rather 
think that a fortliwith subpena should be issued directing his appear- 
ance this afternoon at 2 o'clock. 

Mr. Walter. He was not subpenaed to be here at 11 this morning ? 

1777 



1778 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Tavenner. Only the subpena as amended by the letter, which 
would constitute the direction. 

(Ivej^resentative McSweeney enters hearing room.) 

Mr, Walter. Yes, but that is not the service of a subpena. 

Mr. Wood. I understand his counsel called the staff yesterday and 
advised the staff he would be here. 

Mr. Tavenner. The staff was advised by his counsel that he would 
be here this morning. 

Mr. Harrison. Why don't you call his counsel ? 

Mr. Tavexner. Will you have Mr. Appell call his counsel? He 
knows wlio he is. I do not. 

Mr. Wood. Have you any other witnesses? 

Mr, Ta\t:nner. Yes. We can proceed in the meantime, Mr. Chair- 
man, with our legislative hearings. 

(Whereupon the committee proceeded with hearings on legislation 
until the appearance of William W. Remington, approximately 10 
minutes later.) 

Mr. Ta\^nner. At this time, Mr. Chairman, I would like to call 
Mr. William Walter Remington. 

Mr. Wood. Is Mr. Remington in the committee room? Come for- 
ward, please. 

Mr. Remington, will you stand and be sworn, please. Do you sol- 
emnly swear the evidence you give before this committee shall be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Remington. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. Let the record disclose that for the pur- 
pose of this hearing there are present Messrs. Walter, Harrison, Mc- 
Sweeney, Case, Velde, Kearney, and Wood, a majority of the com- 
mittee. 

You may proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

TESTIMONY OF V/ILLIAM W. REMINGTON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, JOSEPH L. RATJH, JR. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this is a continuation of the hearings 
which the committee has been holding for some time regarding alleged 
communism in the Federal Government, and I will say to the witness 
that there has been some testimony before this committee with regard 
to him in that connection, and I would like him to have the oppor- 
tunity to answer that testimony, and to make certain inquiries of him 
regarding matters which are committed to this committee for investi- 
gation. 

Mr. Wood. First of all, Mr. Remington, are you represented by 
counsel here ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir ; I am. 

Mr. Wood. I would like to advise you at the outset that you will 
be accorded the privilege of conferring with your counsel at any time 
you desire before answering or responding to any question which 
may be propounded to you. 

Mr. Remingix)n, Mr. Chairman, I would appreciate your permis- 
sion to read a short statement at the outset. 

Mr. Wood. When the committee has finished its interrogation you 
wdll be given the opportunity to make any statement you desire. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1779 

Mr. Remington. Sir, I am sorry I can't read it now, but may I offer 
it for the record. 

Mr. Wood. That will be perfectly all right, and at the conclusion of 
your testimony if you desire to read it into the record you will be 
given that opportunity. I have a copy of it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Rauh. My name is Joseph L. Rauh, Jr., 1631 K Street, NW., of 
the firm of Rauh and Levy, L-e-v-y. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Remington, will you state your full name and 
present address ? 

Mr. Remington. William W. Remington, 2402 Temporary "T" 
Building, Department of Commerce. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Remington. I was born in New York City on October 25, 1917. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give to the committee a brief outline of 
your educational background? 

Mr. Wood. Before going into that, may I make an inquiry ? The 
rule of this committee is that a witness is not to be photographed un- 
less he is willing. Do you have any objection to being photographed 
while you are testifying ? 

Mr. Remington. I have no objection. 

Mr. Wood. I will ask that you gentlemen do it as rapidly as pos- 
sible so as not to interfere with the proceedings. 

Mr. Case. I thought the question of counsel was for the residence 
address of the witness. Was that the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Remington. If that was the question, my residence address is 
2136 North Troy Street, Arlington, Va. 

Mr. Case. And the answer you previously gave was your office 
address ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee your educational 
background, please? 

Mr. Remington. I was educated in the public schools of Ridgewood, 
N. J.; the Episcopal Church Sunday School there also. I went to 
Dartmouth College and I did graduate work at Columbia University. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee a statement of your 
employment background since completing your high-school training? 

Mr. Remington. Wlien I was 18 years old and at college, Dart- 
mouth College, I was hit by the depression, short of funds, and left 
college to work between my sophomore and junior years. I worked 
as a messenger for the Tennessee Valley Authority during that period 
of time. 

Mr. Wood. Where? 

Mr. Remington. In Knoxville, Tenn. That was my first regular 
employment, aside from the many jobs I held as a college student, 
earning most of my way through college. 

After completing some graduate work at Columbia, I came down 
to Washington to the National Resources Planning Board. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien was that, please? 

Mr. Remington. In 1940. From there I went to the Office of Price 
Administration for about 6 or 7 months; from there to the War Pro- 
duction Board. 



1780 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. When did you go to the War Production Board? 

Mr. Remixgton. In February of 1942. I left the War Production 
Board in the spring of 1944 to enter the Navy. After approximately 
2 years in the Navy — I was in the Navy, pardon me, for longer than 
2 years — I went with the Office of War MolDilization and Reconversion 
at the end of 1945. I remained there until the spring of 1947, when 
I went to the Council of Economic Advisers. I remained there about 
a year, until the spring of 1948, when I went to the Department of 
Commerce, where I now am employed. 

Mr. Case. Can you be more specific as to the time you went to the 
Department of Commerce? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. I went to the Department of Commerce, 
I believe, May 16, 1948. Pardon me. I said May. I meant to say 
March 16. 

Mr. Case. March 16, 1948? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Case. And in what department? 

Mr. Remington. The Office of International Trade, where I headed 
the so-called export program staff. 

Mr, Case. Which hacl to do with issuance of export licenses? 

Mi\ Remington. The export program staff had no direct connec- 
tion with the issuance of export licenses. The program staff did review 
the volume of ex})ort licenses which would be appropriate to issue 
for various types of commodities. 

Mr. Case. Dealing with the completion of exports under lend-lease? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. I believe that lend-lease exports had 
been wound up at an earlier period. 

Mr. Case. There was a recommendation that certain items be ex- 
ported to complete the lend-lease program to Russia, which was pre- 
sented to Congress in the spring of 1948. 

JNIr. Remington. Sir, I know nothing about that at all. I am sorry. 

]\Ir. Wood. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what year did you enter Dartmouth College? 

]Mr. Remington. I entered Dartmouth in September 1934, when I 
was 16 years old. 

Mr. Tavenner. During those 2 years, the years of your freshman 
and sophomore courses at Dartmouth College, were you a member of 
the American Student Union or its predecessors, the Student League 
for Industrial Democracy or the National Student League? 

Mr. Remington. It is my recollection that the American Student 
Union was formed in 1936. Is that right, sir? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not certain of the date, but that is approx- 
imately correct. 

Mr. Remington. I had absolutely nothing to do with its predeces- 
sor organizations. I did take part in some of the campus activities 
of the American Student Union after that organization was formed. 

Mr. Tavenner. In taking part in the activities of that union, were 
you a member of it ? 

Mr. Remington. As I have testified before, I do not know for a 
fact that I became a member. However, I freely associated myself 
with some of the organization's activities on the Dartmouth campus. 
I certainly participated in them willingly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you take the pledge required of the members 
of that organization ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1781 

Mr. Remington. I don't know what that pledge was, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will read to yon the pledge as contained in the 
January 9, 1936, issue of the Dartmouth paper. It was known as the 
Oxford pledge. Are you familiar with what was known as the Oxford 
pledge ? 

]VIr. Remington. I am familiar with that, and I never took the 
Oxford pledge. I think that is borne out by the fact that I willingly 
entered the Navy during this last war. 

Mr. Tavenner. But that Avas in in 1912 or 1913, was it not? 

JNIr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the time with which we are dealing was what 
year? 

Mr. Remington. 1936, when I was approximately 17 years old, 18 
years old. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become a member or not of the American 
Student Union? 

Mr. Remington. My best recollection is that I took part in the 
activities of the American Student Union on the campus. I have been 
told that I was listed in the campus pa]:»er as a member. I think that 
is quite possible, that I was a member, because I know for a fact that 
I took part in its activities willingly. I do not, I cannot, state cate- 
gorically that I was a member or was not a member. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you are uncertain in your own mind at this time 
as to whether or not you were a member, how can you be certain wheth- 
er you took the pledge which was required to be taken by members 
of that organization ? 

Mr. Remington. I remember considerable discussion of that pledge, 
sir, in a general way, in various campus organizations. I remember 
that at that time I was never fully willing to follow the ASU organi- 
zation on the campus. The Oxford pledge was one of the points of 
disagreement which I had with some members of the organization. 
I did not know from my personal knowledge and personal recollection 
that the pledge was required of ASU members at Dartmouth College. 
I know that only from what you tell me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall this to be a correct statement of the 
Oxford pledge : 

The American Student Union accepts without reservation the Oxford pledge 
committing us against the support of any war conducted by the United States 
Government. 

Mr. Remington. I have heard the name of the Oxford pledge. I 
have heard it discussed. I do not know what the specific wording of 
it was. 

Mr. Wood. The question you were asked, Mr. Remington, is: Are 
you familiar with the fact that it contained the statement that has just 
been read to you ? 

Mr. Remington. There are some points in there which I could not 
affirm from my knowledge. I know that the Oxford pledge had some- 
thing to do with refusal to bear arms. I do not know whether the 
American Student Union adopted it as its rule, as its policy, at Dart- 
mouth. I do not know from my own knowledge whether the wording 
was that a person who took the pledge would not bear arms under any 
circumstances for the United States. 



1782 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATE'S GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Wood. I wanted your answer to be responsive to the question. 
Do you know that the language that has just been read to you by coun- 
sel was included in the pledge that is under discussion, the Oxford 
pledge ? 

Mr. Kemington. I do not know, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not it was a membership 
requirement that there be an acceptance of that oath by the members? 

Mr. Remington. I do not know, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. The article to which I refer states that there was 
no such requirement, that the Oxford pledge was not an absolute re- 
quirement for membership in the union. At any rate, you tell us 
that 3'ou did not subscribe to that pledge ? 

Mr. Remington. That is correct. 

;Mr. Tavenner. That you did not take that pledge ? 

Mr. Remington. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. What particular activities of that group did you 
engage in'^ 

Mr. Remington. I remember helping to raise money, helping to 
secure donations of clothes, for the refugees from bombing in Spain 
at the time when Mussolini and Hitler were interested in that coun- 
try. I remember taking part in the planning of student meetings to 
discuss problems of war and peace at Dartmouth College on Armistice 
Day. I think you will find that in many colleges there were what 
were called at that time student strikes on Armistice Day. I think 
you will find at Dartmouth in the years when I had some influence on 
the policy of certain student organizations there, not particularly the 
ASU but others, that there was not such strike at Dartmouth College. 
At that time there were meeings to discuss seriously the problems of 
war and peace. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you take part in a cooperative movement to 
establish a restaurant which was organized and sponsored by the 
the American Student Union ? 

Mr. Remington. I did, sir. That restaurant was originally spon- 
sored by the American Student Union in 193G. When I came back to 
the campus from my year of absence there was no formal connection 
between the eating club, as it was called, and the ASU. It was not 
referred to as an ASU club, and it was not an ASU club. It was a 
cooperative, and in that cooperative I earned my food and in addition 
some cash income to help put myself through college. I worked there 
as a janitor, as a dishwasher, and later as manager. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time you state you worked in that capacity, 
there was no connection between that restaurant and the American 
Student Union ? 

Mr. Remington. In 1937-38, academic year, when I acted as man- 
ager, there was no such connection. When it was set up in 1936 I 
believe there was such a connection. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a further activity, did you take part in a mo\e- 
ment by the American Student Union to bring in foreign films? 

Mr. Remington. I recall attending several movies produced in 
France, in England, and in other places — pardon me, France, England, 
and Italy; no other country that I can recall — in Dartmouth Hall. I 
believe those films were arranged for by ASU. There may have been 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1783 

other films that are not specifically in my mind at the moment. The 
French films were shown partly because the romance language depart- 
ment was interested in them. There were films, I believe, in the 
Spanish language and in Italian. There may have been others, also. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you take part in a cooperative bookshop estab- 
lishment organized and controlled by the American Student Union? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the 2 years of your freshman and sopho- 
more courses at Dartmouth, were you a member of the Young Com- 
munist League ? 

Mr. Remington, No. sir. I wonder, sir, if I could summarize these 
years at Dartmouth College by reading to you some very brief excerpts 
from an affidavit which was written and sworn to by President Ernest 
Martin Hopkins. He was president of Dartmouth at that time. He 
knew me well during these years and he has known me since. 

Mr. Wood. For the purposes of this hearing, Mr. Remington 

Mr. Remington. He summarizes these activities. 

Mr. Wood. Just a moment. At the conclusion of your testimony 
if you desire to offer any portions of any affidavits from other people 
for the purpose of the record, the committee, I am sure, will be glad to 
receive them ; but for the time being, please confine your testimony to 
responsive answers to the questions. 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. I am sorry you don't want me to read it. 

Mr. Wood. It isn't that I want or don't want you to read it. We are 
■conducting an investigation here and want to conduct it in an orderly 
manner. Please don't leave the inference I am exercising preference 
about it at all, because I am not. I think we can proceed in a more 
■orderly manner if you will confine your answers to the questions pro- 
pounded, and at the conclusion of your testimony you may offer any 
portions of affidavits from other people as you desire, 

Mr. Tavenner. During your freshman and sophomore years at 
Dartmouth, were you a member of the Communist Party of the United 
States of America ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. I was never a member of the Communist 
Party at any time. 

Mr. Tavenner, During your sophomore year at college, did you 
belong to an organization known as Veterans of Future Wars ? 

Mr, Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any part to play in the founding of 
the program of the Veterans of Future Wars at Dartmouth? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. I believe that was done at Princeton, 
was it not ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Or did you have any association with the activities 
of that organization at Dartmouth? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. With whom did you room during your freshman 
year at college? 

Mr. Remington. I roomed with Mr. Richard Sherwin. 

Mr. Tavenner. After you finished your sophomore year at college, 
I understood that you sought employment at TVA ? 

Mr. Remington. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the character of that employment ? 

Mr. Remington. Messenger. 



1784 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Ta^txner. That was at the Tennessee Valley Authority in 
Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you arrive at Knoxville ? 

Mr. Remington. During the last week of September of 1036. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Had you, prior to your arrival at Knoxville, joined 
tlie Young Communist League or the Communist Party of the USA? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. I never joined them at any time. 

Mr. Tavenner. With whom did vou reside while employed by the 
TVA? 

Mr. Remington. For 8 months of that period — 7 months of that 
period, pardon me — I resided with Mr. Henry Hart. 

Mr. Wood. Would that be the first 7 months you were there ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir; the fii'st 7 months, excluding the first 
week or 10 days when I resided at the YMCA. I believe I had no 
roommate there. 

jVIr. Tavenner. Do you remember the address ? 

Mr. Remington. Temple Street. The number was 920. I believe. 

Mr. TA^T.NNER. How long did you continue to work as messenger? 

Mr. Remington. Until I resigned from the TVA, effective, accord- 
ing to personnel records, on May 17, 1937. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Then your entire employment with the TVA was in 
the capacity of a messenger ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Taahenner. Did you reside with any other person or persons, 
other tlian Mr. Henrv Hart, after the first 7 or 8 months? 

Mr. Remington. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state with whom, please ? 

Mr. Remington. On about the 1st of May 1937 — that was when I 
was 19 — I moved into a room with a Mr. Merwin Todd. Within a 
few days he brought into that room two friends of his, one of whom 
lived there for a month, the other of whom lived there for part of tliat 
ensuing month. Then on about June 1 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. "\^nio were those persons ? 

Mr. Remington. A Mr. Horace Bryan was there during the entire 
month, I believe. I myself was out of town a great deal durino- that 
period, so I can't say whether he was also out of town. Mr. William 
Marlow was at that residence during part of that month. 

Mr. Wood. You spoke of living in that room with INTr. ISIerwin Todd. 
Was that individual known sometimes as Mr. Pat Todd ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir; Mr. Pat Todd. Mr. Todd and I left 
933 North Broadway, the two of us, on about June 1, and went to an 
address on Highland Avenue for a brief period of 2 or 3 weeks, perhaps 
4, when I was winding up my affairs and packing in anticipation of 
returning to Dartmouth College in September for my junior year, 
which I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the address of the place of residence 
at the time the four of you lived together, the four persons you men- 
tioned, including yourself? 

Mr. Reisiington. The address was on North Broadway. I believe 
the number was 933. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the date of your departure from 
Knoxville ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1785 

Mr. Remington. I left Knoxville approximately the last week of 
June 1037. It may have been about the 1st of July. I believe it was 
before the 1st of July by several days. 

ISlr. Tavenner. Are you familiar with the rating given you by Mr. 
Jerome Allen, senior clerk in the TVA, on May 13, 1937, regarding 
your work ? 

Mv. Remington. Yes, sir. 

JNIr. Tavenner. Is this a correct statement of that rating : 

Mr. Remington's work in the mail room was not satisfactory. He was not 
interested in our worlv. He was slow and appeared to be physically lazy, which 
was probably due to his activities after working hours. 

Mr. Remington. I believe he made some remark — he certainly did 
to me personally — to the effect that my interest in the A. F. of L. union 
there in the TVA was greater than my intehest in carrying mail. 
Carrying mail is a dull job for an economist, no matter what mail 
it is. It is true that I spent more time on the A. F. of L. union than 
anything else in Knoxville. I think my record since then proves thf><- 
I am not physically lazy, 

ISIr. Wood. I feel, again, that your answer is not responsive directly 
to the question asked. The question asked was whether the language 
read to you was the correct language of the rating made of your 
work at that time. 

Mr. Remington. Mr. Allen said that. I thought he said more, too. 
I thought he went on to make some more favorable remarks, but I am 
not sure of that. I believe that is part of the statement he made. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, there is more which I did not read. I shall 
read it now : 

He resented being supervised by his superiors. He was not adapted to our 
minor routine wo.k. Mr. Remington has a bright mind and reads a great 
deal. He is interested in sociology, and I believe he would succeed in any type 
of work dealing in social problems. If Mr. Remington had not resigned, I 
would have recommended in the report due May 15, li)o7, that he ba transferred 
to another division. 

Does that complete what you understand was his statement? 

Mr. Remington. I think so, sir. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. You stated that you arrived in Knoxville, Tenn., 
what month ? September 193G ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir ; when I was 18. 

Mr. Tavenner. In December 193G, while you were in Knoxville, 
Tenn., were you a member of the Communist Party or the Young 
Communist League ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir ; not then nor any other time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then your answer would be the same for the 
months of February, March, April, May, and June 1937? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir, same answer. I was not a Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have stated that the person mentioned by you 
as Merwin S. Todd 

Mr. Remington. Pardon me, sir. I didn't state his middle initial. 
I don't believe I know that. 

Mr. Tavenner. The person mentioned by you as Merwin Todd is 
also known as Pat Todd ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know that Pat Todd, the person with 
whom you roomed, was an organizer for the TVA cell of the Com- 
munist Party in Knoxville ? 



1786 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remingtox. No. Mr. Todd, when I knew liim, roomed with 
him, never said anything or did anything which gave me that im- 
pression. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know that Pat Todd was a member of the 
Communist Party or affiliated in any way with the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remingtcix. He never said anything or did anything which 
gave me that imjn-ession. I have been asked about him many times 
by investigators, ^. lio have certainly implied that he was. 

Mr. Tavennek. Well, will you answer my question, please? Did 
you know — whether you knew it from his actions or not — that he 
was a member of the Communist Party or affiliated with it ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Or the Young Communist League? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend any Communist Party meetings 
with Pat Todd? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have mentioned the name of Horace Brvan as 
one of the persons who lived with you at 933 North Broadwaj'. Did 
you know whether he was a member of the Communist Party ^ 

Mr. Remington. He never said anything or did anything which 
led me to think he was a Communist. No one ever told me that 
he was, except that investigators have asked me so many questions 
about him that I think they may have been trying to give me that 
implication. I do not know. 

!^Ir. Wood. Mr. Remington, you were asked, at the time you were 
rooming with Horace Bryan, whether or not you knew that he was a 
Communist? 

Mr. Remington. The answer is "no." 

Mr. Wood. At no time while you roomed with him did you have 
any information that he was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. None. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were subpenaed on the 25th of April, I believe, 
to appear here as a witness before this committee ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. I don't recall the date, sir. 

Mr. Ta\t^nner. Do you recall whether Mr. Appell, to my right, a 
member of the investigative staff of this committee, served the subpena 
on you. 

Mr. Remington. He did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you not, at the time of the service of that sub- 
pena, state to Mr. A])pell that when you were in Knoxville you were 
told, in 1939, that Horace Bryan w^as a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Remington. When I was in Knoxville—- — 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer my question, please? Did you 
make that statement to Mr. Appell ? 

Mr. Remington. Not in those words. I did not make that state- 
ment. Shall I state what I did say ? 

Mr. Tavenner. If you desire to make any explanation, proceed. 

Mr. Remington. I said that when I came through Ejioxville — 
that happened to have been in September of 1939 — I talked to many 
people I had known there before. They told me that there had been, 
after I left Knoxville, Communists there. The told me the names of 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1787 

some people who they thought had been in that group. Mr. Bryan's 
name, I think, was mentioned. I could not swear that Mr. Bryan's 
name was mentioned in that connection. 

Mr. Wood. You say "they" told you. Could you identify for the 
record whom you got that information from in 1939 ? 

Mr. Remington. I do not know who told me that. I know to whom 
I talked during the several days I was in Knoxville. I do not know 
who, specifically, told me about that period. As I said, I do not know 
for a fact that anyone mentioned Mr. Bryan's name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you not, in your conversation with Mr. A])pell, 
narroAv it down to one of two individuals with whom you stated you 
had "bull sessions" regarding this subject? 

Mr. Remington. Narrow what down, sir? 

Mr. Tavenner. Narrow down the source of the information that 
you obtained? 

Mr. Remington. I think I said that I talked with several people; 
that I certainly knew that I had talked to a group which I narrowed 
down to one or two people ; but I did not say that I talked exclusively 
to them. I do recall precisely having talked to some people while I 
was there. I think I may have seen others. I know I talked to a 
great many. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you not tell the investigator that that informa- 
tion came as a result of a "bull session," as you expressed it, that 
you held with one of two individuals? 

Mr. Remington. I didn't narrow it down that narrowly, sir. That 
certainly does not jibe with my recollection. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did either Bernard Borah or Henry C. Hart tell 
you that? 

Mr. Remington. One of them or someone else may have said, "Mr. 
Bryan is suspected of having been in that group," but I doubt it. 

Mr. Tavenner. At any rate, this instance in 1939 was after you. 
had left your employment in Knoxville? 

Mr. Remington. Yes; it was after I left Knoxville. I had been 
gone from Knoxville well over 2 years before those conversations 
took place. 

Mr. Taa^nner. When I mentioned Horace Bryan being a member 
of the Communist Party, I was not drawing a distinction between be- 
ing a member of the Communist Party cell at Knoxville and being a 
member at large. 

Mr. Remington. I understand that. 

Mr. Tavenner. So I want to make it plain I am including in my 
question whether or not you knew him as a member at large of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Remington. I understood that from your question. A Com- 
munist is equally malodorous regardless of which status he is in. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does your answer apply to either status? 

Mr. Remington. It does, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Howard Allen Bridgman ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How well acquainted were you with him? 

Mr. Remington. I saw Mr. Bridgman as a fellow messenger in the- 
TVA for a few weeks after he returned from a trip to Russia in 1936. 
I was associated with him in several union committees, although not. 



1788 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

very closely so. I saw him on one or two social occasions that I caii 
remember, although they, in turn, had gi-own out of A. F. of L. activi- 
ties. Then I believe I saw him at a meeting of the American Eco- 
nomic Association, or perhaps a meeting of the Society for Public 
Administration, in some fairly recent year; but aside from that I did 
not see him after leaving the TVA. 

Mr. Tavexner. Did you attend Communist Party meetings with 
Mr. Howard Allen Bridgman ? 

Mr. Kemington. No, sir. I have never seen a member of the Com- 
munist Party. I have never' attended Conmiunist meetings with Mr. 
Bridgman or anyone else. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then your answer is that you have never attended a 
Communist Party meeting with Mr. Bridgman ? 

JNIr. Remington. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. While vou were employed from September 1936 
to July 1937 with the TVA at Knoxville ? 

Mr. Remington. I never attended any Communist Party meetings 
with Mr. Bridgman, and I have never attended Communist Party 
meetings, in Knoxville or anywhere else. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Elizabeth Winston Malcombre? 

Mr. Remington. I know an Elizabeth Todd, sir. Is that the per- 
son you named ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, also known as Betty Malcolm. 

Mr. Remington. She had been married before she married Pat 
Todd. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is right, and is presently the wife of Pat Todd. 

Mr. Remington. 1 know her. I knew her, rather. 

Mr. Tavenner. How well did you know Betty Malcolm, or Mrs. 
Pat Todd? 

Mr. Remington. I have met her 2 or 3 times. 

Mr. Tavtenner. Where? 

Mr. Remington. I met her here in Washington to spend — oh, for 
dinner and to talk some. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that? 

Mr. Remington. In the fall of 1938, when I was coming down here 
to begin my first applications for a possible Federal position. The 
Todds were in town. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were they assisting you in securing a Federal posi- 
tion at that time ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. How well did you know Mrs. Todd while living in 
Knoxville? 

Mr. Remington. Not at all. I am not sure that she was in Knox- 
ville when I was there. If she was there and I saw her, it was just in 
passing. 

Mr. Tavenner. In order that there may be no chance of a misdescrip- 
tion, I hand you a photograph and ask you if you can identify the 
person shown in that photograph ? 

Mr. Remington. I believe that is Betty Todd, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the photograph in evidence and ask 
that it be marked "Remington Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. Without objection, let it be admitted. 
(The photograph above referred to, marked "Remington Exhibit 
No. 1," is filed herewith.) 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1789 

Mr, Case. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a question. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Case. 

Mr. Case. When was it that you came to Washington looking for a 
position ? 

Mr. Remington. I made several trips. The first was in the late 
fall of 1938 or winter of 1938-39, when I came down to inquire about 
civil-service examinations. I also talked with two or three persons in 
Government about law or economics as a postgraduate study. I may 
have made specific application with a Government agency, but I don't 
think so. I was interested primarily with the examinations and a 
choice of career. 

Then I came down again in 1939 two or three times. That is, I 
came down during the academic year 1939-40 two or three times before 
I was employed. 

Mr. Case. When you left the Navy, when did you negotiate for a 
Government position ? 

Mr. Remington. I believe in December of 1945, when I was still in 
the Navy, knowing I was to be released within a few months. 

Mr. Case. AVlien did you take a Government position ? 

Mv. Remington. I took a civilian Government position with the 
OWMR effective about April 1, 1946. 

Mr. Case. That was the Office of War Mobilization • 

Mr. Remington. The Office of War Mobilization and Reconversion. 

Mr. Case. Who was your immediate superior there? 

Mr. Remington. I worked under Charles Hitch. 

Mr. Case. What were you doing there ? 

Mr. Remington. My first duties there were to study the problems 
of stabilization, how to prevent wage increase and price increases 
which would be inflationary during the decontrolled period. During 
that time I recommended wage stabilization as well as price stabili- 
zation. 

Mr. Case. During that time did you have anything to do with mak- 
ing recommendations as to exports or imports ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Case. When did you go to the Council of Economic Advisers? 

Mr. Remington. About the end of March of 1947. 

Mr. Case. What were your duties there ? 

Mr. Remington. My duties there were to participate in the draft- 
ing of reports on the economic situation. I was particularly assigned 
to the problem of working out ways and means for preventing or 
mitigating the consequences of either excessive inflation or excessive 
deflation. 

Mr. Case. Who was your immediate superior there?, 

Mr. Remington, Mv. Gerhard Colm. 

Mr. Case. And you have testified that you entered the Department 
of Commerce in March of 1948 ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Case. And who was your immediate superior there? 

Mr. Remington, My immediate superior Avas Mr. Francis Mclntyre. 

Mr. Case. And what was his position ? 

Mr. Remington. He was Assistant Director of the Office of Inter- 
national Trade. 

Mr. Case. And Director of Export Control ? 

67052— 50— pt. 1 7 



1790 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remington. That was his special area of responsibility as 
Assistant Director. 

Mr. Case. And what were your responsibilities in that connection? 

Mr. RemiN{;ton. As director of the export program staff I had the 
responsibility to review, through my subordinates, the programs, so- 
called, of materials which could be exported from this country without 
causing an inflationary impact. I also, through my subordinates and 
also directly myself, had responsibility for setting up the machinery 
for review of all exports to Europe, whether they would have an infla- 
tionary impact upon our economy or whether they were commodities 
which could have no impact. 

Mr. Case. That is a rallier intriguing phrase you use when you say 
you reviewed through your subordinates. What do you mean by that ? 

Mr. Remington. It means I had the responsibility. They did the 
review under my supervision. 

Mr. Case. You do accept the responsibility for the decisions made ? 

Mr. Rejiington. I do, within the scope of the export-program statf 
work. 

Mr. Case. AVhen did you first met ^Nlr. Thomas W. Blaisdell ? 

Mr. Remington. I first met him, I believe, in March 1940, when I 
was seeking Federal employment. 

Mr. Case. What was his position at that time ? 

Mr. Re]mixgton. He was Assistant Director of the National Re- 
sources Planning Board. 

Mr, Wood. Mr. Case, I believe we will have to recess. 

Mr. Case. Just one more question: Did Mr. Blaisdell have any- 
thing to do with your employment in the Ofiice of International Trade, 
Department of Commerce? 

Mr. Remington. He had nothing to do with initiating that appoint- 
ment. He did aprove it before it was carried out. 

Mr. Case. In what capacity did he approve it ? 

Mr. Remington. He approved it as Director of the Office of Inter- 
national Trade and as supervisor of the men who had initiated it. 

JVIr. Wood. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock. 

Will that be a convenient time for you to come back, j\Ir. Remington ? 

]\Ir. Remington. I am at your service, sir. 

(Thereupon, at 12 : 15 p. m., a recess was taken until 2 p. m. of the 
same day.) 



HEAEINGS REGARDING COMMUNISM IN THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT— PART I 



THURSDAY, MAY 4, 1950 

United States House of Kepresentatives, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. C. 

PUBLIC HEARING AFTERNOON SESSION 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 2 p. m., in room 226, 
Old House Office Building, Washington, D. C, Hon. John S. Wood 
(chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood, Fran- 
cis E. Walter, John McSweeney (arriving at indicated), Harold H. 
Velde (arriving as indicated), and Bernard W. Kearney. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr.. counsel; Louis J. 
Russell, senior investigator; Donald T. Appell, William A. Wheeler, 
Courtney Owens, and William Jackson Jones, investigators; Ben- 
jamin Mandel, director of research; and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order, please. 

For purposes of the hearing this afternoon, the chair has designated 
a subcommittee composed of Messrs. Walter, Kearney, and Wood, and 
they are all present. I believe, in view of the fact the witness was 
sworn to testify before the full committee this morning, it may be 
necessary to administer an additional oath, so will you stand and be 
sworn, please. Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this sub- 
committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Remington. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM W. REMINGTON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, JOSEPH L. RAUH; JR.— Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. INIr. Remington, near the close of the morning 
session I was asking you questions relating to your acquaintance- 
ship with Betty Malcolm, also known as Elizabeth Winston Mal- 
combre. You told us, I believe, of an occasion when you met her 
in Washington in the fall of 1938. I do not Iviiow whether that com- 
pleted your testimony with regard to your acquaintanceship with her 
or not. 

INlr. Remington. I said that I had known her as Betty Todd, I 
did not know her by the other name that you gave, the longer name. 
I said also that I did not know whether she arrived in Kiioxville be- 

1791 



1792 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

fore I left Knoxville or not. If she did, I may have seen her. I do not 
recall her there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you visit her in Knoxville on any occasion at 
her residence at 1412 Forest Avenue, Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. Remington. I don't recall it, sir. I think not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Durin"; the time of your employment with TVA? 

Mr. Remington. I think not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, are you in doubt about that ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then possibly you did visit at her home ? 

Mr. Remington. I think not. My recollection is that when I saw 
her in Washington, I was meeting her as Betty Todd for the first 
time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Meeting her as Betty Todd for the first time. Do 
you mean meeting her in her new married name for the first time ? 
^ Mr. Remington. I believe I was meeting here for the first time. As 
I indicated, if she arrived in Knoxville before I left there, it is possi- 
ble that I met her before I left Knoxville. I don't think I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, if you met her, would you not know whether 
or not you visited in her home ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. That was a long while ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. If there is any uncertainty about your having vis- 
ited her in her home, did you go to her home on, say, 2 or 3 occasions ? 

Mr. Remington. I am sure I did not. I think if I had I would 
remember having met her there, if I had. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know her husband, Kenneth Malcombre, 
otherwise know as Kenneth Malcolm ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have never met him ? 

Mr. Remington. No, I don't think I ever met him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever have a conversation with Kenneth 
Malcolm, also known as Kenneth Malcombre, on any occasion while 
you were employed at TVA ? 

Mr. Remington. I don't remember it, sir. I don't think he was in 
Knoxville when I was there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting 
at the home of Betty Malcolm, otherwise know as Elizabeth Winston 
Malcombre, then as Mrs. Pat Todd? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting of any kind at tlie home 
of this same person ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Kenneth Malcolm to be a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. No. I have read his name in the newspaper since 
then, in the very recent past, and I have been asked, I think, perhaps 
by some investigator, about him. Whether it was some investigator, 
or whether it was your Mr. Appell, I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you see the article to which you refer ? 

Mr. Remington. I think I'saw it— I don't know whether I read 
it in a clipping from the Knoxville Journal, whether I read it quite 
recently, or whether I read it 2 or 3 years ago here in the Washington 
])apers. I am not sure. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1793 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Betty Malcolm to be a member of the 
Communist Party '? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you Imow Muriel Speare, who likewise has 
been married several times? She has also borne the name of Muriel 
Speare Borah, and later Muriel Speare Borah Williams. 

Mr. Eemington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What are the circumstances under which you knew 
her ? 

Mr. Remington. I met her in the AFL union at TVA. She was an 
active member. I saw her in connection with several union com- 
mittees. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she an employee at TVA ? 

Mr. Remington. She was. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of her employment? 

Mr. Remington. She was a secretary or stenographer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that in the same section in which you worked ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Muriel Speare Borah Wil- 
liams was a member of the Communist Party at the time you were an 
employee at the TVA ? 

Mr. Remington. Wlien I was there she never said anything or did 
anything, to my knowledge, which made me feel that she was a Com- 
munist. I have heard that she has testified, before this committee, 
I believe, that she joined the Communist Party when she was em- 
ployed by TVA. However, that was at a period after I left Knox- 
ville and the TVA. 

(Representative Velde enters hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. My specific question was whether you knew she 
was a member of the Communist Party during the time of your 
employment at TVA. During the time of your employment at TVA, 
did you know she was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you learn of that alleged membership prior to 
your leaving Knoxville for the resumption of your collegiate duties 
at Dartmouth ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Ted Wellman? 

Mr. Remington. I met Ted Wellman when I was in Tennessee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where and when? 

Mr. Remington. I met him in Cattanooga in the spring of 1937. 
I met him again in Knoxville in the late spring of 1937, in June. 

Mr. Taa'enner. What was the occasion of your meeting him in 
Chattanooga i 

Mr. Remington. I was in Chattanooga one day, I believe it was a 
Sunday, on the way back from a week-end trip with several members 
of the TVA union. 

Mv. Tavenner. Who were they ? 

Mr. Remington. I am sure that one of them was Merwin Todd. 
I do not know who the others were. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean you do not recall their names ? 

Mv. Remington. I do not recall the names of the others who were 
on that trip. I am sure that one of them was Mr. Todd. 



1794 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Ta\-enner. What was the purpose of your meeting Ted Well- 
man in Chattanooga? 

Mr. Remington. There was no purpose of the meeting. We were 
coming back from this short week-end trip. We stopped at Chatta- 
nooga to eat a meal. He joined us at the restaurant. I don't know 
how or imder what circumstances he came, but he came and joined 
us and we talked about labor union activities during the course of a 
meah 

Mr. Tavenner. Had you met him before that time? 

Mr. Rp:mington. I had not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know the other members of your party 
prior to that time ? 

]Mr. Remington. He knew at least one member of the party, I 
believe. 

Mr. Tan'enner. Which member was that? 

Mr. Remington. I couldn't swear which member it was, but I could 
guess, if you want me just to guess. 

Mr. Wood. Only what you know. 

Mr. Tavenner. It should seem you should know. AVhen a person 
who is a stranger to you comes up to a group of you, you would likely 
know which of the group he had met before ? 

Mr. Kearney. How long ago was this ? 

Mr. Remington. This was 13 years ago, sir, when I had just passed 
my nineteenth birthday. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you recall ? 

Mr. Remington, I do not recall well enough to swear who it was 
he had known before. If you want guesses 

Mr. Tavenner. No, I am not asking for guesses. I am trying to help 
you refresh your recollection. Where had you gone on this particular 
trip? 

Mr. Remington. We had spent the day at a labor union school in 
tlie Cumberland Mountains. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of the school? 

Mr. Remington. Highlander Folk School. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at that time know that Ted Wellman was 
the Communist Party organizer for the State of Tennessee ? 

Mr. Remington. No. I did know him as a man who was in charge 
of the hod carriers' union in Chattanooga, and who was active in the 
Central Labor Union, because those were the matters we talked about 
at that short dinnertiuie or lunchtime session. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photograph and ask you if you can 
identify the person whose picture appears there? 

Mr. Remington. Not ])ositively, but I think this is Ted Wellman. 
This picture is not a good one, but I think it probably is. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the photograph in evidence and 
ask that it be marked "Remington exhibit No. 2." 

Mr. Wood. It will be admitted. 

(Th6 photograph above referred to, marked "Remington exhibit 
No. 2," is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us when you met Wellman the second time, 
this time, I believe, in Knoxville? 

Mr. Remin(;ton. Yes. I recall one day having an appointment to 
eat dinner with a friend of mine, going into the restaurant, and find- 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1795 

in^ him with another man. I had seen the man before. I recognized 
him as Mr. Welhnan. I sat down, becanse I had liad a dinner appoint- 
ment with my friend, not with Mr. Welhnan, We talked dnring the 
course of that meal. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was present besides Mr. Welhnan? 

Mr. Remington. The person, the friend of mine, with wdiom I had 
the dinner appointment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it Henry C. Hart ? 

Mr. IJemington. No; it was not Mr. Hart. I know that for a 
fact. I think that it was Mr. Todd, but it is not something that I 
could swear to definitely. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. Was this meeting held at Crawford's Grill restau- 
rant in Knoxville ? 

Mr. Remington. I am sorry. I don't know where Crawford's Grill 
restaurant is. 

Mr. Taa'enner. It was at a restaurant in Knoxville? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Taa-enner. Will you state the general location of it? 

]Mr. Remington. It was, as I recall it, quite near the TVxV, because 
those were the only restaurants I ever ate in. I ate in a restaurant 
directly across the street from the union building quite often; and 
also in a restaurant between the union building and the New Sprankle 
Building, I think it was the latter. 

JNIr. Tavenner. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Wellman, 
or he with you, at that meeting, in which the matter of the Commu- 
nist Party was discussed ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes ; indirectly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Please tell us about it. 

Mr. Remington. We discussed labor union activities almost entirely. 
There was some remark made during the course of that meal which 
led me subsequently to inquire, "Who is this guj^?" It was something 
about the Communist Party, or the Communist attitudes, or Commu- 
nist views, or something of that sort. I can give hypothetical ex- 
amples of what it might have been. I can't recall the chance remark 
which was made 13 years ago which aroused my curiosity, 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you make inquiry and determine that Wellman 
and your roommate, Pat Todd, were members of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Why not? 

Mr. Remington. I made an inquiry which led me to find out that 
Mr. Wellman was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. You made no inquiry regarding Pat Todd? 

Mv. Remington. I did not. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. Was that because you knew that Pat Todd was a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

jNIr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why didn't you make inquiry in regard to him ? 

Mr. Remington. Because Mr. Todd had never said anything, Mr. 
Todd had never done anything, which would lead me to believe that 
he was a member of the Communist Party. Consequently, there was 
no call whatsoever for such an inquiry to be made. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did you make inquiry of Pat Todd as to whether 
Wellman was a member of the Communist Party ? 



1796 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remington. I would guess that it was Todd of whom I made 
the inquiry which 1 know I made. 

Mr. Tavenner. And did he advise you that Welhnan was the Com- 
munist Party organizer for the State of Tennessee? 

Mr. Remington. I believe he said: "Welhnan is the Communist 
Party organizer for the State of Tennessee, didn't you know?"' Or 
something of that sort, because Mr. Wellman was known to and he 
know most of the labor organizers, AFL and CIO, in that vicinity. 
He, I assume, made it his business to know them. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. And so Mr. Todd expressed surprise that you did 
not know Wellman was the Communist Party organizer for the State 
of Tennessee ? 

Mr. Remington. I would not call it surprise. I think he probably 
thought I had heard it somewhere. After finding out that he was a 
Communist, of course, I was not dealing with him again. I saw him 
on these two occasions. After finding out he was a Communist, I did 
not see him again. I want the record to show that, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, you were so opposed to the Com- 
munist Party and what it stood for that you would have no dealings 
with Mr. Wellman after you found out that he was a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that your attitude toward other persons in 
the TVA at that time who were members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. If I had known, or if I had reason to believe, that 
there were people among my friends who were members of the Com- 
munist Party, I would have had that attitude. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien were you married? 

Mr. Remington. I was married in 1939. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was your wife from ? 

Mr. Remington. My wife was from Croton-on-Hudson, N. Y. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were Communist Party activities carried on in the 
home of your mother-in-law ? 

Mr. Remington. At the home of my mother-in-law I met Commu- 
nists. I did not work with them in union activities; I did not work 
closely with them on any matter; I did not associate with them as 
elose friends. I talked with them and — I am trying to draw the dis- 
tinction. I would have talked with a Communist in 1940, 1941. I 
would have talked with a Connnunist earlier. I would not have chosen 
a Communist for a personal friend, nor would I have worked inti- 
mately with a Communist in union activities, as I worked with my 
friends in the TVA union. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet, at the home of your mother-in-law, 
Joseph North ? 

Mr. Remington. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is he a person known to you to be a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. I believe he is a member of the Communist Party ; 
at t]>e time I knew him, at any rate. 

Mr. TAVENNEii. Did he tell you he was a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Remington. I certainly assumed it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1797 

Mr. Remington. Because of his position as the editor of the New 
Masses. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he active at the home of your mother-in-law 
in the promulgation of Communist views and principles? 

Mr. Remington. He talked a lot. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, there were many meetings held there which 
he attended; isn't that true? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

INIr. Tavenner. And he developed Communist Party meetings in 
the home of your mother-in-law; isn't that correct? 

Mr. Remington. At social gatherings there he talked about the 
Communist Party, about its beliefs and its program, I have never 
seen a Communist Party meeting at the home of my mother-in-law. 
I have seen social gatherings at which Mr. North was a somewhat 
more-than-usually vociferous guest. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you, after knowing of his position as a Com- 
munist Party member, accepted his invitation to dinner, didn't you? 

Mr. Remington. I accepted an invitation to dinner, but not to 
work with him in labor union activities or anything else. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you were not so averse at that time to commu- 
nism as I gathered from your statement in regard to Mr. Ted Wellman, 
to the effect that you wouldn't have anything further to do with a 
person that you thought was a Communist, and that you wouldn't have 
a Communist for your friend. But it was a different situation when 
it came to Mr. North, wasn't it? 

Mr. Remington. Sir ; I said I didn't see Mr. Wellman after I learned 
he was a Communist. I said I certainly would not have associated 
actively with Communists doing work at TVA in any capacity. That 
is, to my way of thinking, an utterly different matter than meeting 
someone at the home of my mother-in-law. When I was at my mother- 
in-law's for the weekend, I couldn't pack up my bag and leave because 
of her guests, and I couldn't ask them to leave. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. It was through Mr. Joseph North that you met Mr. 
Jacob Golos, was it not? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\'ENner. Did Mr. North introduce you to him ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know who Mr. Jacob Golos is ? 

Mr. Remington. I do now. I did not know then. 

Mr. Tavenner. You received your introduction to him from Joseph 
North? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And at the same time, or I believe it was at a later 
time than your introduction to Golos, you met Elizabeth Bentley? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now let us return for the moment to the period of 
time spent by you at Knoxville, Tenn. Did Ted Wellman ever give 
you any directions? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Or instructions or advice regarding your own con- 
duct, as a party member or otherwise? 

Mr. Remington. No. I was never a member of the party, and there 
was no way in which he could have given me any kind of instructions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Or advice? 



1798 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr, Remington. There was no way in wliich he could have given 
me any advice. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, you were present at this meeting at this restau- 
rant, at which communism was discussed ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. I said at that restaurant there were some 
words spoken which aroused my curiosity to the point that I asked : 
"Who is this guy?" 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall what those words were? 

Mr. Remington. I told you, sir, that I could give you, perhaps, a 
hypothetical example of what it might have been, some mention of 
what the Communists thought of the unions, or what the Communists 
were trying to do, but I cannot remember a specific sentence that was 
spoken 13 years ago when I was 19 years old. 

Mr. Tax^enner. All right, sir. Did you know Mabel C. Aber- 
crombie ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she an employee of TVA? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Remington. She was a clerk-stenographer at the TVA. 

Mr. Tavenner. In your department? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the occasion for your meeting her? 

Mr. Remington. I met her first at the dinner table at 920 Temple 
Street, where I resided, as we have discussed. She left there about a 
week after I took up my residence at that address. Subsequently I 
found I was delivering mail to her at the TVA. She was on my 
route, in other words. 

Mr. Tavenner. Incidentally, was Muriel Speare Borah Williams on 
your mail route also? 

Mr. Remington. Occasionally I had special messages to run which 
either originated at her office or Avhich terminated at her office. She 
was never on a regular delivery route which I had responsibility for, 
as nearly as I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether Pat Todd and Muriel Speare 
were close friends prior to her marriage to Borah ? 

Mr. Remington. They certainly worked together in the A. F. of L. 
union on many committees. I do not know if they were, as you say, 
close friends. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Pat Todd work at the TVA also ? 

Mr. Remington. He did. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what capacity? 

Mr. Remington. He w^as an assistant, a junior assistant, I believe, 
at about $1,620 or $1,860 per annum, to someone in the Coordination 
Division of TVA. He had been a messenger. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he on your mail route? 

Mr. Remington. I carried special messages which sometimes origi- 
nated or terminated there, but I never had his office on any regularly 
assigned delivery route. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of Mabel C. Abercrombie visiting at 920 
Temple ? 

Mr. Remington. I said she lived there, sir, for the first week that 
I was there. 



COMMUNISM IX THE UNITED STATES G0VERX:MENT 1799 

Mr. Tavenner. That was the same house in which 3-011 and Pat 
Todd lived at that time? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. In which you and Hart lived at that time? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

JMr. Tavenner. What was Hart's first name ? 

Mr. Remington. Henry. 

JMr. Tavenner. Henry. Was Henry Hart also an employee at 
TVA? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understood you to state you did not know that 
Hart was a member of the Communist Party. Am I correct in that? 

Mr. Remington. When I was in Tennessee he did nothing and said 
nothing which would give me that belief. I know from his public 
testimony, before this committee, I believe, that he joined the Commu- 
nist Party after I left Tennessee. 

Mr. Wood. Then what is your answer to the question whether, at 
the time you were in Knoxville, Tenn., you knew him to be a Com- 
munist ? 

Mr. Remington. The answer is "No." 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend any Communist Party meet- 
ings with Mabel Abercrombie ? ^ 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend any kind of meetings with her ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us about them. 

Mr. Remington. I attended many meetings of union committees 
with her. Those were meetings of the committees of the Government 
Employees Union of the American Federation of Labor. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were any of those meetings held at the home of 
Betty Malcolm, otherwise known as Elizabeth Winston Malcombre? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Henry C. Thornton ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavtsnner. I hand you a photograph and ask if you can identify 
the person whose picture appears there ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know John M. Frantz ? 

Mr. Remington. Not when I was at TVA. I met him when he 
was at the Housing Agency and I was in the Office of War Mobiliza- 
tion and Reconversion. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that ? 

Mr. Remington. That was in 1946, during the latter part of the 
year, and also during the first 2 months of 1947. He told me that he 
recalled having seen me when I was in Knoxville, but I did not re- 
member him. Pardon me, I would like to correct that. I said I met 
him when he was at the Housing Agency and I was at OWMR and 
he apparently remembered me. There was another occasion which I 
have just recalled on which I met him, in a grocery store on Pennsyl- 
vania Avenue in about 1941, the early part of the year. That chance 
meeting, at which he recognized me but I did not recognize him, led 
to a lunch a few days later. He was employed by the Government 
at that time and so was I: 



1800 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Tavenner. Do I understand, then you do not recall ever having 
met him while you were living in Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. Remington. I can't place him. He seems to remember me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he was a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Remington. As far as I know, I don't even remember having 
met him in Tennessee, so I Avoukl have no knowledge about him 
there at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. I wasn't confining the question entirely to Tennes- 
see, but to any time ? 

Mr. Remington. In my contacts with him here we have, aside from 
our one lunch of reminiscences about this and that, our contacts were 
strictly limited to official business. 

Mr. Tavenner. Still you haven't answered my question. 

Mr. Remington. The answer is that I have no reason to regard 
him as a Communist at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Whether you have any reason or not, have you any 
knowledge ? There may be a distinction. 

Mr. Remington. I have no knowledge of any Communist activities, 
affiliations, or sympathies on his part. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was not my question. My question w^as, Do 
you know that this person, John M. Frantz, was ever a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Laurent Frantz ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. His brother ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photograph and ask if you can identify 
the person whose photograph ai)pears there ? 

Mr. Remington, No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Kenneth Cameron ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was Kenneth Cameron employed ? 

Mr. Remington. He was employed at TVA. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the character of his duties ? 

Mr. Remington. He was, I believe, in central files during the entire 
period of my employment there. I know he was in central files during 
part of my employment there, and I think he probably was in central 
files the whole time I was there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he on your mail route ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting 
with him ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Or affiliated with the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you. have any knowledge that John M. Frantz 
was in any way affiliated with the Communist Party of the United 
States or any of its branches ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1801 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know William Haney ? 
Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the earlier part of your testimony you stated 
that a complaint was made by the person rating you at TVA that 
possibly you were devoting too mucli of your time to outside matters, 
in effect. What matters outside of your employment at TVA were 
you particularly interested in at that tilne, such as organizations to 
which you may have belonged ? 

Mr. Remington. I put my heart and soul into one organization. 
That Avas the Knoxville branch for the TVA workers of the American 
Federation of Government Employees, which was an AFL affiliate. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of an organization known a& 
the Workers Alliance ? 

Mr. Remington. I have made talks to the AVorkers Alliance in con- 
nection with my work with committees of the A. F. of L. I once went 
with the Workers Alliance workers to ask about relief problems in 
Knoxville. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of Workers Alliance? 
Mr. Remington. I don't think so. I certainly worked with it, and 
so, for purposes of this hearing, I would like to assume that I was 
sympathetically associated with its efforts in Knoxville to gain higher 
relief benefits and moie WPA jobs. Beyond that, I know nothing 
about the Workers Alliance. I can say I was sympathetically asso- 
ciated with that activity, but I have to stop at that point. I know 
nothing about the rest of its activities. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall a meeting of the Workers Alliance 
that you attended when you traveled there by motorcycle? 

Mr. Remington. I traveled everywhere through that valley on a 
motorcycle. I may have gone to Workers Alliance meetings at which 
I talked, on my motorcycle, yes, but never over the speed limits, sir, 
Mr. Tavenner. Regardless of the speed at which you traveled, did 
you take Kenneth Malcolm with j^ou on your motorcycle to a Workers 
Alliance meeting? 

Mr. Remington. No. I carried a lot of people on my motorcycle, 
but not him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there anything especially significant in your say- 
ing "not him" ? 

Mr. Remington. No; simply that I never met him to the best of 
my knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know the secretary of the Workers Alli- 
ance, Francis Martin ? 

Mr. Remington. I think I met him if he is the brother of the 
David Martin who worked in TVA. 
Mr. Tavenner. David Stone Martin ? 

Mr. Remington. There Avas a David Martin whom I knew as David 
Martin — I don't know about the rest of it — who worked at TVA, who 
was quite active in the union, and who brought his brother around to 
the office once or twice. 

Mr. Taatenner. I show you a rather clear newspaper photograph 
and ask if you can identify that person. 

Mr. Remington. I think that is the man who is the brother of David 
Martin. 

Mr. Taa'enner. In other words, Francis Martin? 
Mr. Remington. Yes. 



1802 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Tavenner. A secretar}' of the Workers Alliance? 

Mr. Reihington. I know nothing about his connections with 
Workers Alliance, but that, I think, is the man. I say I know nothing 
about his connection with Workers Alliance. I want to point out that 
I left Knoxville in June lO-lT. I know^ nothing of what happened 
after that. I know nothing that happened before I got there in late 
September of IDoG. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he was secretary of the Knox 
County branch of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. I read 2 days ago, in an old, old clipping from the 
Knoxville Journal, that he was such. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know it? 

Mr. Re]\[ington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. While you were living there ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you belong to an organization in Knoxville by 
the name of Workers Education? 

Mr. Remington. I belonged to the Workers Education Committee 
of the American Federation of Labor union at the TVA, called the 
Knoxville Workers Education Committee at one time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold any official position in that group ? 

Mr. Remington. I was officially a member of it. I was the kid on 
the committee, and so I believe my official position was, for the most 
part, errand boy. Later on I became teacher. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether Howard Bridgman was the 
chairman of Workers Education ? 

Mr. Remington. My impression was that Merwin Todd had been 
chairman of that committee and ran it. He certainly ran it. I don't 
know whether he was chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Horace Bryan connected with that organiza- 
tion, Workers Education? 

Mr. Remington. Mr. Bryan w^as hired as the full-time study direc- 
tor, director of education, of that group, for a period of 3 months; 
they had money for 3 months. During part of that 3 months I w^as in 
Knoxville, but only during part of the period. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the circumstances under which Horace 
Bryan was chosen to conduct that work ? 

Mr. Remington. Mr. Bryan's name was proposed to the Workers 
Education committee. The committee made a check on ]\im, inter- 
viewed him, and selected him. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Who proposed his name to the Workers Education 
group ? 

Mr. Remington. I don't know, I could guess if you want me to 
guess. I don't know specifically who proposed him. It was some- 
one who had known that Mr. Bryan had been engaged in Workers 
Education in Tennessee. I don't know who that would be, specifically, 
;although I can guess. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Horace Bryan was chosen 
^or that position, in fact, by the Knoxville cell of the Communist 
Party and recommended to the group by the Communist cell ? 

Mr. Remington. No; definitely not. Do you want me to describe 
the reviewing process the committee went through in selecting him ? I 
can recall something about it. 
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNIVIENT 1803 

Mr. Remington. The committee, after having the proposal of his 
name, called those men in the labor unions in that vicinity who had 
heard him perform. The committee called or wrote persons who had 
known him teach at Highlander Folk School, which was closely tied 
in with American Federation of Labor miions at that time, and with 
the CIO unions which w^ere beginning to be formed. A check was 
made on him with persons I have every reason to believe were reputa- 
ble trade-unionists. That is how the check was made on Mr, Bryan. 
I know nothing of anything else. 

Mr. Tavenner. I was asking what position, if any, you held with 
tlie Workers Education organization. Were you secretary of that 
organization at any time? 

Mr. Remington. No. The secretary was a lady who could take 
shorthand. I functioned as general legman for a time, and then I 
became a teacher. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere was the mail addressed to that group re- 
ceived ? 

Mr. Remington. At the TVA union. 

Mr. Tavenner. What post-office box ? Do you know anything about 
that? 

Mr. Remington. No. I would think it impossible that the union 
would bnve had a posl-cffi^e b'^x, because they would normally receive 
tlieir mail at the TVA union at TVA ( ffices. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Horace Bryan, of the Work- 
ers Education committee, procured a post-office box for the receipt of 
the mail addressed to that organization? 

Mr. Remington. No. If he had one, I know nothing about it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me see if I can refresh your recollection. I 
hand you a photostatic copy of an application for postoffice box dated 
March 8, 1937, which was signed for by four ditferent individuals. 
Will you read the names of those individuals ? 

Mr. Remington. Signature of applicant: Horace Bryan. Refer- 
ences : Harry Bridgman. I suppose that means Howard Bridgman. 
M. Todd. I assume that is Merwin Todd. And Bernard Borah. All 
three of TVA. Bryan, of course, was not. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the business and street address given? 

Mr. Remington. The address of both Bridgman and Todd is TVA. 
The residence of Mr. Bryan is given as 933 North Broadway. At that 
time I was living Avith Mr. Hart on Temple Street. 

Mr. Tavenner. 920 Temple Street? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. Mr. Borah's address is not given as TVA, 
but is given as 308 Twelfth Street, an address I do not know. There 
were three keys. I know nothing about them and I know nothing 
about this box, which I think is clear from this document. 

Mr. Tavenner. Merwin Todd is the same person to whom you have 
referred as Pat Todd in your previous testimony ? 

Mr. Remington. I would assume so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Bernard Borah the husband of Muriel Speare 
Borah? 

Mr. Remington. Muriel Speare married Bernard Borah some time 
after I left the TVA. I do not know precisely when. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were acquainted with Bernard Borah, were 
you ? 

Mr. Remington. I was. 



1804 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GO\"ERNMENT 

Mr. Tavenner. He was an employee at TVA? 

Mr. Remington. He was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he on your postal route ? 

Mr. Remington. No. He was not on my regular route, but I 
carried messages to and from any office that called for a special 
messenger. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of his duties ? 

Mr. Remington. He was in the Social and Economic Division, I 
think that is what they called it, when I first went to work at TVA. 

Mr. Tavenner. This post-office box 1692, assigned as a result of 
this application, in the name of Horace Bryan, Workers Education, 
residence address 9.33 North Broadway, was used by what other 
persons, to your knowledge? 

Mr. Remington. I had no knowledge of the box at all, I didn't 
know it existed. 

Mr. TA^^5NNER. Did you receive mail through that box? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of a mailing list 
from the office of the American Federation of Government Employees, 
national office, which gives the names and addresses of various per- 
sons wlio were members of local 13G at Knoxville, Tenn., and ask if 
you do not find on that list the name of William Remington, post- 
office box 1692, Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. There it is. What is the date on this? I 
think it is clear that I was on this mailing list. I think it is also 
clear that my name could have been sent in to this mailing list. I 
have no personal knowledge of receiving things through this box, I 
am absolutely positive I did not have a key to it. IMail might have 
been brought to me from this box and from this union. I got my 
mail — let's see, my parents were writing to me at the time, and I don't 
know anyone else from whom I was receiving mail, and that all came 
to me personally and not through any intermediaries. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you become a member of local 136 ? 

Mr. Remington. Local 136. Is that the number of that union ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Remington. I became a member of that TVA union within a 
week or so after I got to the TVA. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you became a member, did you give your 
name and address to the local ? 

Mr. Remington. Of course. 

Mr. Tavenner. What address did you give? 

Mr. Remington. I assume that I gave my residence address, which 
was 920 Temple Street, although I may have given the TVA office 
address. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce in evidence that photostatic 
copy of mailing list, and ask that it be marked "Remington Exhibit 
No. 3." 

JNIr. Wood. Without objection it will be admitted. 
(The photostatic copy of document above referred to, marked 
"Remington Exhibit No. 3," is filed herewith.) 

]Mr. Tavenner. I hand you now an additional photostatic copy of 
a statement of new members, bearing date December 24, 1936, giving 
names and addresses, which shows your address as 920 Temple Avenue. 
Will you examine that? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1805 

Mr. Remington. That is my address. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that is Avhat you gave the union at the time of 
your joining? 

Mr. Remington. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you change that address by notice to the union ? 

Mr. Remington. I have no recollection of it at all. 1 can under- 
stand the possibility that when I left Temple Street, or knew I was 
about to leave, that 1113^ address was changed with the union to this box 
number. Todd knew we were going to live together. He might have 
said, 'T will handle your union mail for you." I have no recollection 
of it, 13 years ago when I was 19. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did not you and Bryan and Todd, whose names 
appear on there, agree that you were to receive your mail through that 
box? 

Mr, Remington. Whose names appear on where ? 

Mr. Tavenner. On the application for a post-office box. 

Mr. Remington. My name does not appear on this application for a 
l^ost-office box. 

Mr. Tax-enner. I didn't ask you that. I asked if you agreed with 
Todd and with Bryan, whose names appear on that application, to 
use that box ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. I believe if I had so agreed I would nat- 
urally have been one of the references for this box, but I was not. 
Incidentally, I think that is a very logical presumption, that if I had 
been using the box my name would appear there. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. I offer the second photostat in evidence and ask that 
it be marked "Remington Exhibit No. 4." 

Mr. Wood. Without objection it will be admitted. 

(The photostatic copy of document above referred to, marked "Rem- 
ington Exhibit No. 4," is filed herewith.) 

(Representative Velde enters hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. If there is anything else on those two documents you 
would like to point out to the committee, we will be glad to have you 
do so. 

Mr. Remington. I would like to check them and get an idea as to 
the dates of them. 

Mr. Tavenner. I notice on the second sheet of Remington exhibit 
No. 3 that there appears the name of Merwin Todd, address 618 Henle, 
Knoxville, Tenn. 

Mr. Remington. That means that these are not in alphabetical 
order if his name appears on page 2 and my name appears later. There- 
fore, it would seem to be a chronological list, the earlier names first and 
the later names second. 

Mr. Ta\"enner. Do you know when Merwin Todd lived at the ad- 
dress I have just mentioned ? 

Mr. Remington. No, but I know when he didn't live there. He didn't 
live there when he was living with me, and that was in May and June. 

Mr. TA^^lNNER. That was in May and June, and in May and June 
your address was 933 Broad Street ? 

Mr. Remington. Broadway. I know it was that in May. In June 
I was on Highland Avenue or Highland Street. 

Mr. Tavenner. And at that time you and Todd were living to- 
gether? 

67052—50 — pt. 1 8 



1806 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. After seeing these records and thinking further on 
the subject, are you still willing to state that you did not advise the 
national office of the American Federation of Government Employees 
that your address would be post-office box 1692? 

Mr. Remington. The application for the box, sir, attests that I had 
nothing to do with taking it out. How I got on this mailing list in 
that connection, I don't know. I think it quite obvious that I did re- 
ceive letters, if there were any, at this box number from this organiza- 
tion. I don't know that they mailed anything during the period of 
time after I left 920 Temple Street, addressed to me. If they did, I 
apparently received it at tliis box rather than at 920 Temple Street. 

Mr. Wood. I don't think that is responsive to the question, sir. The 
question is. Did you notify the office that that was your address? 

Mr. Remington. All I can say that is entirely responsive is that I 
do not recall, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. You indicated a moment ago that perhaps Merwin 
Todd had given such an address for you, but if that had been true, 
wouldn't he have given the same address for himself on the second 
page of that exhibit 3, which was not the same address as yours Avhen 
in fact the two of you were living together ? 

Mr. Remington. As I pointed out before, the list is not alphabetical. 
If it is not alphabetical and my name appears after his, the presump- 
tion is it is chronological, which indicates I got on the list at a later 
date. There is a point here which occurs to me. This post-office box 
was applied for by Mr. Bryan. Is that true ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is what the application shows, that he signed 
for it. 

Mr. Remington. If he signed for it, it clearly had something to do 
with the workers education committee. That was in the A. F. of L. 
union. I Avas a member of that union and of that committee. I be- 
came a teacher for that connnittee. It seems to me highly possible 
that the union sent literature having to do with the w^ork of that 
committee to a man who was on the committee and employed by that 
committee at the address given by the director of education for that 
connnittee. I think the logicalness of that presumption is borne out 
by the fact that Merwin Todd, who is on the list at an earlier time, 
perhaps befoi-e the committee became active, perhaps before the com- 
mittee took out its box, appears with his Henle Street address. 

Mr. Walter. Are the names of other members of that committee 
on that list? 

Mr. Remington. I have not checked it yet, sir. I can check it if 
you wisli me to take the time. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will ask you to examine Remington exhibit No. 
4 and see if Todd did not join the local union at the same time you did, 
and his name appears together with yours, so instead of joining ahead 
of you, you joined at the same time, so that your argument would not 
stand. 

Mr. Remington. I don't follow you at all. 

Mv. Tavenner. Didn't you state to the committee that the address 
shown for Todd was different from yours because he was on the list 
longer, he was a member longer? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1807 

Mr. Kemington. You said Mr. Todd's name appears on page 2. 
What is the page on which my name appears ? 

Mr. Ta\'enner. The first page, I believe. 

Mr. Remington. My name appears on page 1. So it is not a chrono- 
logical list nor alphabetieal. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you to examine the sheets again and see 
if it is not a fact that the names appear in their alphabetical order, 
but the sheets are assembled without regard to the alphabetical order? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. The sheets have been assembled with my 
name on the first sheet, so consequently we have no clue as to Avhat the 
original order was. 

Mr. Wood. I thinly the whole discussion is purely argumentative. 
The question now being asked is whether Todd joined this organiza- 
tion at the same time you did. 

(Representative McSweeney enters hearing room.) 

Mr. Remington. Mr. Todd had been a member of the union before 
I joined it. 

Mr. Wood. You have the paper before you. Is his name there with 
yours ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. It appears on the same list of new members 
dated December 24, 1936. However, Mr. Todd had been out of town 
for a considerable period, and this may involve a readmission to mem- 
bership. He had been a member before I was, and he was a member 
when I joined the union, it is my understanding. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever receive any mail through this post- 
ofhce box 1692 ? 

Mr. Remington. Not that I recall. I say if the union sent anything 
to me after my name was on their address list in that fashion, I may 
liave. The box was taken out by the director of the workers education 
committee, and I assume that is the connection in which I appear on 
the union list. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Jess Reeves? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a meeting of any kind at a 
place called Reeves' Roost, located outside of the city limits of Knox- 
ville, near Knoxville ? 

Mr. Remington. No. From what I have heard of those meetings, 
they did not invite kids in their teens. My only knowledge of those 
meetings is from testimony before some committee which I read in the 
newspapers and in committee reports. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand you returned to Dartmouth College 
in the fall of 1937? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you discuss your return to college with Merwin 
Todd or his wife, Betty Todd? 

Mr. Remington. I certainly discussed it with Merwin Todd. He 
knew about it. We roomed together at the time I was packing, get- 
ting ready to go. I certainly discussed it with his wife after I was 
back there. I don't remember whether I discussed it with her before 
I returned, because I don't know if I saw her then. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you discuss it in the presence of Kenneth 
Malcolm ? 

Mr. Remington. I don't think I did, because I have said that I 
don't think I ever met him. It was well known among all my friends 



1808 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

that I had gone back to college, of course. I imagine after I left 
Knoxville they talked about it occasionally. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have told us about knowing Howard Allen 
Bridgman. When did you last see him ? 

Mr. Eemingtox. I last saw him at some professional association, I 
believe the American Economic Association or the Society for Public 
Administration, of which I am a member. 

Mr. Wood. He just asked you when, Mr. Remington. 

Mr. Remington. Two or three years ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. At that time did the two of you discuss Communist 
Party membership ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he not advise you at that time that he was no 
longer a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. He did not. He had never advised me that he 
was, if he ever was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you make any statement to him with regard 
to your past Communist Party membership ? 

Mr. Remington. No. I never had any. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he tell you that he had changed his views 
toward communism? 

Mr. Remington. He told me that he had become an economist, 
I don't recall any discussion of political or economic philosophy ex- 
cept we both agreed that we had become fairly middle-of-the-road 
economists whereas we had been — we had not been economists, as a 
matter of fact, when we had seen each other previously. 

Mr. Tavenner. I don't believe you have answered by question. 

Mr. Remington. I tried to, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will ask the reporter to read the question. 

(The question referred to was read by the reporter, as follows : "Did 
he tell vou that he had changed his views toward communism?") 

Mr. Remington. No. I don't believe he told me about his views 
toward communism. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have mentioned the fact that on the return 
from your marriage trip you stopped at Knoxville, Tenn.? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What year was that ? 

INIr. Remington. 1939. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you then meet ^Muriel Borah and Henry C. 
Hart? . ^ ^ 

Mr. Remington. I know I met Hart. I think I met Muriel Borah. 
I guess she would still have been :S[uriel Borah at that time. If she 
had married and gone to Chattanooga, then it was Mabel Abercrom- 
bie I saw. I saw one of the two. And I definitely saw Henry Hart. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you state wliether you had a conversation with 
them, or they with you, concerning the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us what that was, please ? 

Mr. Remington. Tliore was a discussion j^articularly of the Hitler- 
Stalin Pact, whicli we were all in agreement on. We all hated it. It 
had been announced just 2 or 3 weeks before. There was some remark 
to the effect "wliat a lot of suckers tlie Communists were about that : 
they certainlv had their eyes opened ;" something to that effect. And 
I was told that those who had been in the Communist Party in the 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1809 

TVA prior to the pact had resigned immediately upon liearing of the 
])act. Some, of course, had resigned long before the pact. They had 
joined in late 1937 and gotten out in 1938 and early 1939. Others got 
out when the pact was signed and announced. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did any of those three persons you spoke of say 
they had gotten out of the party ? 

Mr. Remington. Mr. Hart definitely told me that. I heard, whether 
from her own lips or not I can't swear; I think it was; I heard that 
Muriel Speare, as I had known her, had been in that category. About 
the others, I do not know. 

jNIr. Tavenner. I understood you to say you were uncertain as to 
whether it was Speare or Abercrombie who was present ? 

Mr. Remington. That is what I said, sir. I said if she was present 
T heard it from her own lips, and if she was not, I heard it about her, 
])resumbly from Hart. 

Mr. Tavenner. What about Abercrombie ? Had she resigned from 
the party, if you talked to her ? 

Mr. Remington. She certainly was against the party at that time. 
As to whether she told me she had been a member of the party, she 
did not. I don't know whether she was a member or was not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then Mabel Abercrombie was present at the time 
you had this conference, because she told you those things herself ? 

Mr. Remington. I said I know one of those two girls was present. 
I am not sure which one. If Mabel Abercrombie was not the one 
present, I talked to her on the phone, I am sure. If she was in Norris 
I talked to her. I remember calling some people in Norris who were 
]!0t in Knoxville, to say ''hello" in passing. 

Mr. Tavenner. At any rate, that is what she told you ? 

Mr. Remington. That is what she told me or someone told me in her 
behalf. I think she told me. 

Mr. Tavenner. So that at least in 1939 you knew that Hart had been 
a member of the Communist Party; that Mabel Abercrombie had 
been a member of the Communist Party 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. I knew about Mr. Hart. 

Mr. Tavenner. I thought that was the effect of your testimony with 
regard to Mabel Abercrombie. 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. I said she was strongly opposed to the 
Communist Party when I passed through Knoxville. I know that. 
I said I did not know whether she had in fact been a member of the 
Communist Party prior to that or not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us just how that matter came up in your con- 
versation with her. 

Mr. Remington. We were talking in this group about the Hitler- 
Stalin pact. There was some mention of what suckers the Commu- 
nists were, how ashamed they were of having been such, and how ap- 
parently all those few who had been Communists in TVA — how many 
there were I don't know — had resigned. That is the impression I 
gathered from this conversation. There was no discussion specifically 
of a roster of names or anything of the sort, obviously. This was a 
social gathering, during which we were talking about the pact for a 
part of the evening. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wlien was the last time you saw Mabel Aber- 
crombie ? 



1810 COMMUNISM IX THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Rkmixgton. I saw her in the hist few days of Au<]::ust 1947. 

jMi". Tavennek. Did you have a discussion with her then on that 
subject ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes; very briefly; very briefly, because her hus- 
band was there and I was interested in meeting him and discussing 
their future ])hins, which interested me. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Where did this conversation take phace? 

Mr. Rejiixoton. At the Hanover Inn, Hanover, N. H., where they 
were employed on a student basis. 

Mr. Tavex^xer. Fix the date as best j'ou can. 

Mr. Remington. The hast week of August 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. State to the committee what the conversation was 
relating to communism? 

Mr. Remingtox. As I said, the discussion of communism in TVA 
was very cursory. We talked about other things. The conversation 
that took place, as I recall, was something like this : "Bill, did you 
read those stories in the Knoxville Journal? Did anybody ever send 
those to you about communism in TVA?" 

I said : "No. What is it all about ?" Or else I said : "I have heard 
something about it but have not read them. What is it all about?" 

And she told me something about the articles in the newspaper ; but 
we got off into why she and her husband were in New Hampshire, of 
all places, almost immediately. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Mabel Abercrombie tell you that she had seen 
Bridgman ? 

Mr. Remington. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she make any statement to you about her former 
membership in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. No. I think if she had I would remember it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you communicated with her, or she with you, 
recently ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavexxer. How recently ? 

Mr. Remixgtox. I have not communicated with her at all. She sent 
me a Christmas card last Christmas. 

Mr. Tavexxer. This past Christmas ? 

Mr. Remixgtox". Yes. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Is that the last and only communication you have 
had from her since the time you last saw her ? 

Mr. Remixgtox. Yes; unless she sent me a Christmas card the 
Christmas of 1948. I am not sure of that. She may have. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you an organizer for the textile workers in 
Knoxville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. Remixgtox. No; not formally as such on the payroll. My 
work with the Workers Education group of a few weeks, which I have 
mentioned, brought me in close contact with the textile workers union 
and its organizing drive. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did you engage in that work with Merwin Todd? 

INIr. Remixgtox. Yes. 

Mr. Tavexxer. How long did you assist in that work ? 

Mr. Remixgtox. When I was a teacher of this Workers Education 
group for a few weeks I saw Todd probably every day that I was in 
Knoxville, which was half the time those weeks. I worked with him, 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1811 

talked to several union meetings of textile workers that he organized, 
and went on some organizing trips with him to distribute leaflets 
of the textile workers union. 

Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time, did you distribute any 
Communist Party literature or leaflets or pamphlets? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend any Communist Party meetings ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mv. Tavenner. Now, I have asked you questions regarding Henry 
Hart, Pat Todd, Muriel Speare, Betty Malcolm, Mabel Abercrombie, 
Bernard Borah, and Howard Bridgman, all employees of TVA and 
persons as to wliom you testified. Do you know whether or not there 
was a Communist Party cell among TVA workers at Knoxville while 
you were there ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

INIr. Tavenner. I have also asked you whether or not these persons 
whose names appear on the application for post-office box, namely, 
Bernard Borah, Merwin Todd, Howard Bridgman, and Horace Bryan, 
were all persons well known to you, and whether or not you knew 
that they were members of the Communist Party, and whether the 
address given was the same as the home address which you had. 

Mr. Remington. I lived at that address sometime after that appli- 
cation was made. I knew some of those men well ; others not so well. 
1 did not know any of them as members of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think it is right and proper that I should read to 
you certain excerpts from testimony taken by this committee over 
the past few weeks before you answer that question definitely, to give 
you the benefit of any possibility of your recollection being refreshed 
by this testimony, because I know you must realize the seriousness 
of testifying regarding matters of this character as to which there 
appears to be conflicting testimony. I think you understand, of course, 
the seriousness of an oath. 

I would like to read the following excerpts from the testimony of 
Kenneth McConnell, taken in an executive session on April 20, 1950^ 
with Mr. Wood, chairman of the committee, constituting the sub- 
committee : 

Mr. RussETx. Will you state your full name? 

Mr. McConnell. Kenneth McConnell. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever used any other name? 

Mr. McConnell. Yes. 

Mr. RussEix. What was that other name? 

Mr. McConnell. Kenneth Malcombre. 

******* 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. JMcCoNNELL. I have. 

Mr. Russell. For how many years? 

Mr. McConnell. I was a member of the Communist Party from the spring of 
1935 until midsummer of 1939. 

Mr. Russell. You are not now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. McConnell. I am not now a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever held any official positions in the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. McConnell. Clarify the request. 

Mr. RussEix. Have you ever served as an organizer in the Communist Party? 

Mr. McConnell. I have. 

Mr. RussEix. In what localities? 

Mr. McConnell. Knoxville ; Chapel Hill ; Chattanooga ; and Norfolk. 
******* 



1812 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Merwin Todd or Pat Todd to be a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. McCoNNELi-. I do. 

Mr. Appeli,. Was Merwin Todd an organizer for the Communist Party in 
Knoxville, Tenn.? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. He was. 

ii: * :if * * * * 

Mr. Appell. Another person who has been identified as connected with the 
organization linown as Workers Education in Knoxville, Tenn., is William Rem- 
ington. I show you two piiotographs and ask if you can identify the individual 
shown in these photographs as a person you knew in Knoxivlle, Tenn.? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Just a moment, Miss [speaking to court reporter]. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

air. McConnbxl. I can. 

Mr. Appell. That individual you knew as William Remington? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. That is right. 

Mr. Appell. I will ask you now if you, as an organizer for the Communist 
Party in Knoxville, Tenn., knew William Remington to be a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. I did. 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever see William Remington's Communist Party card? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. To my knowledge I cannot answer that other than by saying 
"No." 

Mr. Appet-l. Did you ever discuss with William Remington the operations 
or actions which lie should take as a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. That is a leading question, and I can answer it in this wise, 
if this will satisfy you. I found it necessary, in tlie course of my operations in 
Knoxville, to call Remington's attention to the fact that his demeanor and 
behavior was uncommunistic ; that is to say, tliat he did not conduct him.self 
as befitted a member of the party, mainly because, at that time, of the rouq:h 
manner in which he dressed. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Wood. I understood from your statement a while ago that you did discuss 
with Remington Communist Party discipline and Communist Party activities. 

Mr. McCoNNELL. That is right. This is a psychic thing. Only a psychoanalyst 
can go into this for you. I will give you the facts. 

Mr. Russell. When you spoke to Mr. Remington about his manner of dressing, 
did you speak to him from your own personal observation or from complaints 
by other members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. Nobody had to make any complaints to me. 1 found him 
unkempt. I am talking about the time when I was a convinced Communist, and 
if I was a convinced Conuuunist then I am speaking out of my own mind. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. McConnell, in addition to this conversation with Remington, 
did you ever attend any meetings of the Connnunist Party, meetings restricted 
solely to members of the Communist Party, at which meetings William Reming- 
ton w^as present? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. I can only answer that question equivocally. I only i-emem- 
ber one meeting of the Communist Party, at which I was the copresider, when 
Remington was present, and this may have been what is known in the parlance 
of the party as a fraction meeting, which would be a small number of party 
members meeting from a trade-union group, the purpose of the meeting being 
to discuss Communist Party tactics, discuss and decide upon direct courses 
of action for the members of the party in that particular trade-iuiion group. 
This was shortly after I went to Knoxville from Chapel Hill. 

* * * :t' * f * 

Mr. Appell. He I'oturned to Dartmouth after being at Knoxville 1 year. Was 
his return to Dartmouth ever a question discussed within the party? 

Mr. McCoNNEivL. Yes, this question was discussed in the party, and it was 
pointed out to him by party members that tlie Connnunist Party needed edu- 
cated people as well as workers. This was one of the arguments used to induce 
him to return to college. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know who instructed or advised Remington to take this 
course of action? 

Mr. ]\IcCoNNRLL. Nobody could so instruct him, because at that time he 
was under the minimum discipline of the party, but he could be advised, and it 



COMMUISIISM m THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1813 

would be a collective advice, mine, Todd's, Winston's, and whoever else might 
have been present at the meeting. 

Mr. Appell. You say Winston? 

Mr. McCONNELL. I mean Mrs. Todd. 

5fl Jt* 'i' n* M^ "F V 

Mr. Russell. Do you recall the circumstances under which you first met Wil- 
liam Remington? 

Mr. McCoNNELL. I met him with Pat Todd at their joint rooming house. 

Mr. Remington, having heard that testimony, I ask you again: 
Were yon at any time a member of the Communist Party while you 
were working for the TVA or while you were in Knoxville, Tenn., 
betw^een September 1936 and July or August of 1937 ? 

Mr. Kemington. No, sir. I was engaged, as I have told you, in 
an extensive range of activities of the union there. I have since been 
told, partly through the testimony of Mr. Hart and Mrs. Williams, 
that there was a Communist group organized as such after I left 
Knoxville. It has been implied to me that there was a Communist 
group functioning when I was in Knoxville, by Government investi- 
gators. Certainly what you have just read would point in that 
direction, taking it at face value. 

It has been implied to me that some of the people with whom I 
worked most closely, people who were among my closest friends, were 
Comnnmists. I was not. I can understand that if there were secret 
Comnuniists engaged in the activities in which I was engaged as the 
kid member of the party, kid member of the group, kid member of the 
parties working in the union's organization there, that they might 
have considered me as one of their own secret clique because I was 
associated with them or with others whom they knew to be members of 
their secret clique. 

Mr. Wood. The question asked you was very simple, whether or not 
during that period of time you were a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Remington. I said ''No." 

Mr. Wood. Very well. 

Mr. Remington. There are a great many things which are obvi- 
ously wrong about what 30U have just read. In the first place, when 
I left Dartmouth it was wdth a firm plan to return. During the 
early spring of 1937, or during the middle spring, that intention is 
proved by the fact that I went to talk with the clean of Dartmouth 
College, who was making a trip through the South, to complete my 
arrangements for returning to college. The notion that anyone dis- 
cussed wdiether I should go back or not, and advised me to go back, 
is not borne out by the simple facts. 

Mr. Tavexxer. In other words, you state that you Avere not advised 
by any of the persons mentioned, that is, Mr. Kenneth Malcolm, Betty 
Todd, or Pat Todd, to go back to college because the Communist 
Party needed educated personnel as well as workers ? 

Mr. Remington. I was not so advised, because my ow^n plans and 
intentions had been firm from the outset, which is borne out by my 
talk with the dean. 

Mr. Wood. Just answer the question. You say you were not so 
advised ? 

Mr. Remington. I was not so advised. 



1814 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend the Communist Party meeting, or 
fraction meetinof, -wliicli was referred to as having been held, at which 
Kenneth Malcolm was the copresider? 

Mr. Remington. I do not recall attending any meeting at which 
Mr. Malcolm was present, because I don't remember Mr. Malcolm 
at all. I attended a great many meetings held at TYA. 

Mr. Tavenner. When I asked in regard to Kenneth Malcolm, Ken- 
neth Malcolm is the same person as Kenneth Malcombre, and the 
same person as Kenneth McConnell. 

Mr. Remington. I don't know him under any of those names or any 
other name. 

Mr. Walter. What evidence is there to show that that was a Com- 
munist Party meeting ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The statement by the witness said that it was a 
fraction meeting, which is the technical term used in describing a 
Communist Party meeting, and it was in response to a question in 
regard to Communist Party meetings restricted solely to members 
of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Rauh. I would like to have the whole question and answer 
read, because I think Congressman Walter's question was well put. 
There was mention in there about trade-unionism. I would like to 
have the whole thing read. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will be glad to read it : 

Mr. Appell. Mr. McConnell, in addition to this conversation witli Ramington, 
did you ever attend any meetings of the Communist Party, meetings restricted 
solely to members of the Communist Party, at which meetings William Reming- 
ton was present? 

Mr. McConnell. I can only answer that questjoTi equivocally. I only re- 
member one meeting of the Connnunist Party, at which I was the copresider, 
when Remington was present, and this may have been what is known in the 
parlance of the party as a fraction meeting, which would be a small number 
of party members meeting from a trade-union group, the purpose of the meeting 
being to discuss Comnumist Party tactics, discuss and decide upon direct courses 
of action for the members of the party in that particular trade-union group. 
This was shortly after I went to Knoxville from Chapel Hill. 

INIr. Remington. That would mean that the discussion was about 
trade-union problems exclusively. 

Mr. Wood. That, of course, is your conclusion. Do you know any- 
thing about that meeting, whether it was for that purpose or not? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. Absolutely not. 

Mr. Wood. Tlien you are merely presuming. Let us stick to the 
facts. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire also to read excerpts from the testimony of 
Howard Allen Bridgman, taken in executive session on April 29. 1950, 
before a subcommittee composed of Representatives John S. Wood 
(chairman), Morgan M. Moulder, and Bernard W. Kearney: 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bridgman, have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. BRinoMAN. I have ; yes, sir. 

******* 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you resign or sever your connections with the Communist 
Party in li,'39? 

Mr. Bridgman. I did, sir. I severed my connections at the outbreak of the 
Second World War. 

* ****** 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1815 

Mr. Tavennek. Will you state to the committee the circumstances under which 
you joined the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. I was approached by an organizer for the Communist Party 
in the city of Knoxville, Tenn., in the late fall of 1936. He urged me to join, 
:tin(l I (lid joint that party in December of that year. The manner of joining was 
very informal. I was asked, I accepted, and then I started to attend party 
meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the party organizer who solicited your membership? 

Mr. Bkidgman. He was known to me as Pat Todd. 

!|! 3p Sp V IjC i|S ^ 

Mr. TAvENNEB. Going back to the time that you first became a member of the 
Conummist Party at the time you were recruited by Pat Todd, how were you 
 employed? 

Mr. Bridgman. How I was employed? 

]Mr. Tavenner. Yes. How were you employed at the time you were recruited 
by Pat Todd? 

Ml-. Bridgman. At the time that I was recruited into the Communist Party I 
was an emplo.vee of the Tennessee Valley Authority. At that time I was becoming 
a file clerk within that organization, having just been a messenger. I remained 
as a file clerk during the rest of my employment vpith the Authority. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you assigned to a cell or branch of the party when you 
united with it? 

Mr. Bbidgman. Yes, sir. I was assigned to what I understood was the local 
branch, Knoxville branch, of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you then attend Communist Party meetings as a member 
•of that branch? 

Mr. Bridgman. I did, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were the other members of that branch? 

Mr. Bridgman. The other members of that branch whose names I recall were : 
William Walter Remington ; Pat Todd 

Mr. Wood. When you speak of Pat Todd, do you refer to Merwin Todd? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do. A girl known to me as Betty Malcolm ; Mabel Aber- 
'Cronibie ; Muriel Speare, later Muriel Boraii, later IMuriel Williams. 

^ ^ % :{« ^ :(: sf: 

Mr. Tavenner. You have named five individuals. Can yo" recall others? 

Mr. BRiDGiiAN. There were two brothers, named Francis and David Martin, 
•one of whom, I believe, was a member of this branch, although I am not positive. 

Mr. jNIoulder. As to which one, you mean? 

Mr. Bridgman. As to which one or as to whether he was a member. 

Mr. Moulder. Both? 

Mr. Bridgman. Both. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall the names of any other persons? 

Mr. Bridgman. I recall the name of Laurent Frantz. That is all I can immedi- 
ately recall. 

^ * * * i): * i): 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how these various persons were employed at that 
time? Were they all employed by the same employer? If they were not, I will 
ask you about each one individually. 

Mr. Bridgman. It is my recollection, with the exception of Laui*ent Frantz 
and one of the INIartin boys, the persons whom I have just mentioned were all 
employed by the Tennessee Valley Authority. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the name of Henry Hart? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir ; I do. Henry Hart was a member of this branch and 
was an employee of the Tennessee Valley Authority. 

Mr. Tavennfr. That is a list of seven persons, four of whom are men and 
three of whom, I believe, are women. The first person you mentioned was William 
Remington. When did you first meet William Remington? 

Mr. Bridgman. I met William Remington first in the fall of 1937, when he had 
come to be an employee of the Tennessee Valley Authority. 

Mr. Bridfrman later corrected that date, Mr. Chairman, to the fall of 
1936, in these words : 

T believe I said he came to Knoxville in 1937. I should like to state that 
William Remington came to Knoxville to work for the Tennessee Valley Author- 
ity in the fall of 1936. 



1816 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Further questions and answers : 

Mr. Tavennir. What was his emplojnnent with the Tennessee Valley Author- 
ity, do you recall? 

Mr. Bridoman. He was employed as a messenger. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you learn to know him before you became a member of 
the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he ever speak to you on Communist Party matters before 
you became a member of the Communist I'arty? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall that he did, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you state to this committee whether Remington, to your 
knowledge, was a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Briiximan. Yes, sir. William Remington was a member of the Commu- 
nist Party and attended branch meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many meetings did you attend at which he was present? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall the exact number. I should estimate five or six. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he hold any position of any character within the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. Not to my recollection. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell the committee any Communist activity on the 
part of Remington which would further identify his membership in the party? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall any specific party activity that he did outside 
of the branch meetings; that is, specific activity for the party. 

Mr. Tavfj^nkr. What part did he play in the holding of branch Communist 
Party meetings? 

Mr. Bridgman. He took an active part in the holding of the branch meetings. 
I do not recall anything that he said, but I remember his manner of speaking, 
which was forceful, and with head bowed and with hands tliis way [indicating], 

out front. 

******* 

Mr. Tavenner. These five or six meetings which you stated you attended at 
which Remington was present, will you state where those meetings were held 
and identify the time as nearly as you can? 

Mr. Bridgman. These meetings to which I refer were held at the home of Betty 
Malcolm in the evening. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVhere was her home located? 

Mr. Bridgman. Her home was located in the area of the city just north of tlie 
campus of the University of Tennessee. I believe it was on either Highland 
Avenue or Laurel Avenue. 

******* 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Betty Malcolm's husband? 

Mr. Bridgman. I know hirtu slightly. As I recall his name, it was Kenneth 
Malconibre. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him as a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. I knew him as a member of the Communist Party, although he 
was not a member of this branch. 

******* 

Mr. Tavi<:nner. Is there anything else you can recall relating to William 
Remington's activity as a member of the Communist Party, or any incident, which 
would be further proof of his Communist Party membership? 

Mr. Bridgman. Yes, sir. I recall one incident in which he was explaining some 
point and the organizer for the Communist Party for the State, Ted Wellman, 
said to him words to this effect: "Bill, you are being too intellectual about this." 

Further questions and ansAvers ; 

Mr. Kearney. Over how long a period did you know William Remington? 

air. Bridgman. I knew William Remington from the fall of 1936 until late 
spring or snmnuM- of 1987. I met him twice subsequently, the time I spolve of in 
1942-43, and also I ran into him in New Yoik when I was in New York in 1938. 

Mr. Kearney. Do you know of your own knowledge whether Remington was 
a member of the Conununist Party in 1942? 

Mr. Bridgman. At that time, when I indicated to him that I had changed my 
views, I have a general Impression that he reciprocated in the same way. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1817 

Mr. Kearney. But there isn't any question of a doubt, insofar as William 
Remington is concerned, that this is the same Remington I called your attention to 
a few minutes ago as being an employee in the Department of Commerce of the 
United States Government, and that he was a member of the Communist Party 
in Knoxville, Tenn., when you were a member there, and you attended Communist 
Party meetings with him and knew him to be a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bridgman. There is no doubt in my mind that lie was a member of the 
Communist Party in Knoxville, Tenn. 

******* 

Mr. Tavenner. When was the last time that you saw William Walter Reming- 
ton? 

Mr. Bridgman. I last saw William Walter Remington during the late fall and 
winter of 1912-43 in Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at that time have any discussion with him on the 
subject of communism, or make any reference to Communist Party membership? 

Mr. Bridgman. I do not recall the language used, but in walking down a corri- 
dor I indicated to him that I had changed by views, and my impression is that 
he reciprocated the same feeling. 

(Representative Velde leaves hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Remington, you have heard this testimony? 

Mr. Remixgton. I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. I want to ask you again, in the light of this testi- 
mony : AVere you a member of the Communist Party or in any way 
affiliated Avith it while you were in Knoxville, Tenn,, from September 
1936 to July or August 1937 ? 

Mr. Remington. I was not. My views at that time would have 
made that utterly impossible, just as my views before that time and 
since that times make it utterly impossible. I have never had any 
attitude by abhorrence and even hatred toward the idea of dictator- 
ship. I have never believed in the use of any kind of force and vio- 
lence to accomplish any kind of political revolution. I have never 
knowingly subjected myself to any kind of Communist Party dis- 
cipline. It is impossible for me ever to have been a Communist. I 
was a very active labor unionist. I met Bridgman in connection with 
these labor-union activities. If he was a secret Communist, if there 
were other secret Communists in that group of active labor unionists, 
he might have assumed from my association with the gang that I, 
too, was one of his ilk. I was not. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the light of this testimony I will again ask you 
the question : Did you attend any Communist Party meetings at the 
home of Betty Malcolm or any other person while you were in Knox- 
ville, Tenn. ? 

Mr. Remington. No ; and I want to point out something which I am 
sure is readily verifiable, that Betty Malcolm was not in the group of 
friends that I had in Tennessee. I know that she arrived there. I 
know from talking with her afterward that she arrived there in the 
.summer of 1937. I know from hearings before congi-essional com- 
mittees or from an article from the Knoxville Journal which I read 
2 days ago, that this Betty Malcolm arrived in Knoxville in the sum- 
mer of 1937, not at the time that Bridgman describes, I have not said 
categorically that I did not meet her in Knoxville, because there is 
that possibility, I can say categorically that I did not attend meet- 
ings in her place, over a period of time, especially, because she wasn't 
there, 

Mr. Tavenner. The chairman probably recalls that both Pat Todd 
.iind Betty Todd refused to testify when brought before the committee. 



1818 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Wood. On the ground that their testimony might incriminate' 
them. 

Mr. Remington. On the other hand, there has been testimony about 
when the Malcohns arrived in Knoxville. I don't exclude the possi- 
bility that they arrived before I left. Apparently, though, it is im- 
possible for us to have overlapped in Knoxville very much, if, indeed, 
we overlapped at all. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. We do have other questions. 

Mr. Remington. Before we close, may I read a brief statement? 

Mr. Wood. We will meet again tomorrow. 

Mr. Remington. You stated I could read it at the end of the session 
today. 

Mr. Wood. At the close of your testimony. 

Mv. Remington. I am very sorry you are denying me that privilege. 

Mr. Wood. The custom of the committee is for statements of this 
kind to be read at the conclusion of the witness' testimony. How 
long will it take ? 

Mr. Remington. About 3 minutes. 

Mr. Wood. All right, go ahead. 

Mr. Remington. First I would like to read the affidavit of Presi- 
dent Ernest Martin Hopkins of Daitmouth College, who knew me 
before I went to Tennessee and after I came back, and knew me verv 
well : 

I believe him [myself] to be a man of high integrity, as I know liim to be highly 
capable intellectually. I believe him to be deeply devoted to democratic prin- 
ciples and practices 

Mr. Wood. Just a moment, Mr. Remington. You are not on trial 
here. I thought you wanted to make a statement of your own, not 
wliat somebody else said. 

Mr. Remington. I thought 3^011 might be interested in what is known 
about me by people who knew me far better than some of those who 
were quoted here today. 

Mr. Wood. There is no suggestion here that the president of Dart- 
month College was connected with communism in any sense, so he 
could not know if you were or not. 

Mr. Remington. He knew me quite well. 

Mr. Wood. His statement would be hearsay. I will be glad to give 
you an opportunity to read your own statement. 

Mr. Remington. When the Loyalty Review Board cleared me some 
15 months ago, I had hoped that my beliefs in the democratic way of 
life \yould never again be challenged. I had particularly dared to en- 
tertain this hope because the Loyalty Review Board which confirmed 
my loyalty after a most thorough investigation and hearing consisted 
of three eminent Americans, all completely devoted to the democratic 
principles upon which our Nation was founded. That Board, as the 
committee may know, consisted of Seth W. Richardson, Assistant At- 
torney General under former President Hoover; Harry Colmery, past 
commander of the American Legion ; and George Alger, distinguished 
Republican lawyer of New York City. 

I was furtlier encouraged in tlie hoi)e that my loyalty had been es- 
tablished beyond further question by the settleinent— for a substantial 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1819 

sum — of a libel suit which I had brought when my loyalty was im- 
pugned in public. 

I find now that the question of my loyalty is to be reopened -once 
again, I cannot but feel that this is unjust. The right to be free from 
continued harassment is fundamental under our laws. In my case it 
it not merely double jeopardy ; it is triple jeopardy. 

Yet, I have no hesitancy in reafRrming before this committee, as I 
have done today, the statement that I have made over and over 
again — I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Com- 
munist Party. And when I say "never," I mean never, whether at 
the age of 3 or 18 or 32, which I am today. 

It is my understanding that this committee is chiefly interested 
in the 9-month period when I served as a messenger with the Ten- 
nessee Valley Authority at the age of 18 or 19, and that is borne out 
by the questioning today. I repeat again I was not theft or at any 
other time a member of the Communist Party. 

I didn't know" the sources of the information which prompted your 
committee to ask for the reopening of my loyalty case before the ques- 
tioning this afternoon. But I am willing to state unequivocally and 
for the third time, that any person who charges that I was a Com- 
munist during the period of my employment with TVA or at any other 
time is either quite ignorant of the facts of 13 years ago or is, I regret 
to say, engaged in deliberate falsehood. 

The winter and spring of 1936-37 was still the period of widespread 
depression. I was certainly not unique in my concern about this 
problem and in sensing that the ravages of depression and unemploy- 
ment would weaken the moral and economic fabric of this great 
country. 

I saw in TVA a great hope for rehabilitating idle resources and 
idle human beings. I saw labor unions as a means by which the 
underprivileged and unemployed could help to work out their salva- 
tion. I regarded WPA as a major factor in this effort to make this 
Nation whole and healthy again. 

I do not think my reactions were peculiar. They were shared by 
thousands if not millions of young people my age. I was eager and 
enthusiastic about the work that was going on in the Tennessee Valley 
and incidentally I saved $300 there to help me with my next year at 
college. 

During my 9 months at TVA I joined the Government Employees 
Union of the American Federation of Labor, called the AFGE. It 
was the center of extra curricular and social activities. I understand 
now, from questioning by Government agencies and questioning by 
this committee that some with whom I worked there were not as 
idealistic as I was, and that some of them may have actually been 
Communists and fellow travelers. Perhaps I can assume that. I 
certainly didn't know it then. 

I do not regret that I went down to TVA. I learned a lot of things 
in that period. It deepened the intensity of my belief in freedom, 
the Bill of Rights, and in democratic government. 

I have answered unreservedly every question put to me by the FBI, 
by the loyalty boards, by the newspapers, and by everyone else, in- 
cluding this committee. I am prepared to keep on answering them. 
I ask only that some day soon, when at long last I have answered 
all the questions that could possibly be put to me, that my lo3^alty may 



1820 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

again be treated like that of other Americans and that I may be left 
in peace and dignity to work for the welfare of this great country. 

I would like to have the opportunity to present to you the evidence 
concerning my beliefs and activities by men who know me better than 
any other people knew me, probably, the President at Dartmouth Col- 
lege, the dean at Dartmouth College, and others. With your permis- 
sion, sir, I would like to proceed with that. 

Mr. Wood. I don't want to take the committee's time now, but we 
will be glad to have yon submit your information from other sources. 

Mr. Rauh. I would like to file a copy of the entire brief filed before 
the Loyalty Board which cleared ]\Ir. Remington, which contains 
the testimony of prominent people who knew Mr. Remington through- 
out his life, including the TVA period, and shows he was not a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you also have a copy of the finding of the agency 
which was overruled by the Loyalty Review Board ? 

Mr. Rauh. You will have to get that from the Loyalty Review 
Board. 

Mr. Tavejstner. I think, if part of the record is going to be pro- 
duced here, it should all be produced. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any objection to receiving this document for 
reference ? 

There being no objection, it will be received. 

The committee will stand at recess until 10 : 30 tomorrow morning. 

(Thereupon, at 4:45 p. m. on Thursday, May 4, 1950, a recess was 
taken until Friday, May 5, 1950, at 10 : 30 a. m.) 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNISM IN THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT— PART 1 



FRIDAY, MAY 5, 1950 

United States House of Representatives, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. G, 

public hearing 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjourmnent, at 10: 30 a. m. in 
room 226, Old House Office Building, Washington, D. C, Hon. John 
S. Wood (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man), Francis E. Walter, Burr P. Harrison, Harold H. Velde (arriv- 
ing as indicated), and Bernard W. Kearney (arriving as indicated). 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Louis J. 
Russell, senior investigator; Donald T. Appell, William A, Wheeler, 
Courtney Owens, and William Jaclvson Jones, investigators ; Benjamin 
Mandel, director of research ; John W. Carrington, clerk ; and A. S. 
Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order. 

For the purposes of the hearing this morning the chairman has 
designated a subcommittee composed of Messrs. Walter, Harrison, and 
Wood. All are present. You may proceed. 

Mr. Rauh (Joseph L., Jr.). Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Yes? 

Mr. Rauh. At this time I would like to ask the committee that _we 
be allowed to examine at this time a copy of the complete transcript 
of the testimony of McConnell or Malcolm or Malcombre and of 
Bridgman, from which Mr. Tavenner read yesterday. 

The committee must realize how difficult it is for anyone to meet an 
oral charge that one was a Communist at the age of 18 or 19 some 13 
years ago. We should certainly have an opportunity to see exactly 
what the witnesses said so that we can answer and endeavor to point 
out aspects of their testimony which would show, as we are sure, that 
they are either mistaken or that their recollection is faulty or that for 
some other reason they are not telling the truth. 

It is bad enough to read into the record the testimony of two men 
who were not subject to cross-examination. It is bad enough to read 
only a part of what they said. But it would compound the unfairness 
to refuse us the right now to examine the entire testimony. 

We respectfully urge, in the interest of elemental fairness and jus- 
tice, that we be allowed to examine the two transcripts at this time. 

Mr. Wood. As the chairman understands, the pertinent portions of 

1821 

67052— 50— pt. 1 9 



1822 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

the testimony given by the witnesses whose names have been indicated 
by counsel have been read to the witness. The entire testimony has 
not been made public. It was taken in executive session. The chair- 
man cannot appreciate how what somebody else may have said about 
this witness can possibly have any effect on the truthfulness of what 
he may testify, and for that reason the request will be denied at this 
time. 

Mr. Rauh. I am not asking for what other people said about this 
witness. I am asking for the complete transcript of the testimony that 
was read, in order to answer it. Only a part was read. It is unfair. 

Mr. Wood. You mean, if he reads that testimony, he may want to 
change his own ? 

Mr. Rauh. On the contrary, if we could read it, we could show thai 
it is faulty or false. Only a part was read. "We want to see all of it. 

(Representative Kearney enters hearing room.) 

Mr. Wood. May I remind you this investigation is not for argumen- 
tative purposes, but in an effort to elicit the truth, and that is all we 
want this witness to testify to. 

Mr. Rauh. That is all he has testified to. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

I will also include Mr. Kearney in the subcommittee ; and, in order 
that the record may be kept straight, will you stand and be sworn 
again, please. You solemnly swear the evidence you give this sub- 
committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
trutli, so help you God ? 

Mr. Remington. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM W. REMINGTON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL. JOSEPH L. EAUH, JR.— Resumed 

INIr. Tavenner. Mr. Remington, do you know Paul Crouch ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photograph, purportedly the photo- 
graph of Paul Crouch, and ask you if you can identify that person 
as a person heretofore known by you ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, yesterday we presented an applica- 
tion for post-office box made by Horace Bryan, in which the residence 
address was given as 933 North Broadway, Knoxville, Tenn., and as 
a result of which there was assigned to that individual box No. 1692. 

I desire to introduce into the record at this time an application for 
post-office box bearing date December 5, 1939, by Paul Crouch, giving 
as references Francis Martin and William Haney, and the address of 
Francis Martin, and possibly of William Haney, is shown as post- 
office box 1692. In other words, the address given by Mr. Francis 
Martin, a reference cited in the application, was post-office box 1692. 

Mr. Wood. The same as the box assigned to Mr. Bryan? 

Mr. Tavennitr. Yes. I desire to introduce this application in the 
record, and ask that it be marked "Remington Exhibit No. 5." 

Mr. Wood. Without objection, let is be admitted. 

(The document above referred to, marked "Remington Exhibit No. 
5,"' is filed herewith.) 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1823 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Mr. Remington, according to the committee's infor- 
mation, the date of your severance from TVA was April 30, 1937. 
Is that correct ? 

Mr. Remington. The date which was given to me on a personnel 
record which I requested in connection with calculating my Federal 
Government retirement" a few months ago was, I believe, May 17, 1937. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you actually sever your connections? 

Mr. Remington. I indicated that I probably had some annual leave, 
and consequently I actually carried mail on some day prior to May 
17, which I understand to be the official date of my resignation from 
the TVA. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you enter the fall term of school at Dart- 
mouth, what time ? 

Mr. Remington. In September 1937. 

Mr. Tavenner. What time in September? 

Mr. Remington. Approximately the middle of September. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee what your activities 
were and where you were between the I7th day of May 1937 and the 
middle of September 1937? 

Mr. Remington. When I left the TVA, I became a teacher for the 
Workers Education Committee, which had been establish by the 
A. F, of L. union at the TVA, as I testified yesterday. My employ- 
ment with that committee was sporadic. I got paid expenses and 
an hourly rate for the time which I worked. During that period 
of a few weeks between my resignation from the TVA and my return 
to New Jersey to spend the summer with my parents about the last 
week of June, I spent a great deal of time learning about the TVA. 
One of my purposes in resigning from the TVA at that time was 
to learn more about the Authority than I had been able to learn in 
Knoxville. I traveled extensively through the valley on recreation, 
learning about TVA. I visited Norris Dam; I visited Hiawassee 
Dam; I visited Chickamauga Dam; and I visited some of the agricul- 
tural industries which were being established by the TVA. 

JVIr. Tavenner. "When was it you traveled through the Tennessee 
Valley for those purposes ? 

Mr. REivnNGTON. During those few weeks wh^ch elapsed following 
my resignation from TVxV in the middle of May and the last week of 
June, when I returned North. Also during that time, in addition to 
this traveling around, and in addition to mj^ sporadic teaching for 
this committee, I spent time working with the Textile Workers 
Union. I received expense money for gasoline and for meals through 
that organization. I distributed leaflets — Textile W^orkers T^nion 
leaflets — at a few factories in the vicinity where the Textile Workers 
organizers were working. 

That completes the list of my activities during that period — the 
labor unions, the Workers Education Committee, and recreation com- 
bined with learning about the Authority by visiting those various 
installations. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated you returned to your home. Your 
wife's home, did you say? 

Mr. Remington. No; my parents' home. I was 19 years old at the 
time and returning to my junior year at college. 

Mr. Ta\t5Nner. Did you return to Knoxville, Tenn., again before 
entering college again in the fall of 1937 ? 



1824 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Eemington. I did not ; not after I left about the last week of 
June 1937. 

Mr, Tavexxkr, Yon spoke of traveling to Xorris Dam and various 
otliei- places. What was your means of transportation ? 

Mr. Remington. I had a motorcycle on which I rode. 

Mr. Tavenner. What disposition did you make of the motorcycle? 

Mr. Remington. When I left the TVA, I sold the motorcycle which 
I OAvned — it was an Indian 75 — to JNIr. Todd, who had a Harley-David- 
son 45, in return for his Harley-Davidson. It was an exchange. Then 
I sold tliat Harley-Davidson to Mr. Horace Bryan, with the under- 
standing tliat I was to receive money for that. In other words, I 
sold my motorcycle. Mr. Bryan was to pay me for the motorcycle, 
and in effect Mr. Todd and Mr. Bryan exchanged, so that Mr. Bryan 
was driving the Harley-Davidson and Mr. Todd took the Indian. 

Mr. Tavex'ner. When did that transaction take place ? 

Mr. Remington. That took place as I was leaving Knoxville, within 
a day or two prior to my departure. I would like to amend that. It 
might have been several days prior to my departure, but I think it 
was just as I was leaving. 

Mr. Tavenner. At any rate, it was during the week of your depar- 
ture ? 

Mr, Remington. Yes. This is well documented by my letters and 
discussions with the Internal Revenue Bureau in later years, because 
Mr. Bryan never paid me for that motorcycle in any way, and so I 
had to take it as a bad-debt deduction, finally. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did you first become employed by the War 
Production Board? 

Mr. Remington. In February of 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you remained in the employment of the War 
Production Board until what date ? 

Mr. Remington. My last day of duty was, I believe, March 31 of 
1944, when I left to enter a Navy school. 

(Representative Velde enters hearing room.) 

Mr. Remington (continuing). My annual leave carried me, I be- 
lieve, up until June of 1944. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the character of your employment with 
the War Production Board ? 

Mr. Remington. I was, during 1942 and during the first part of 
1943, a member of the staff' of the so-called planning committee of the 
War Production Board. I then went to the Orders and Regulations 
Bureau, where I was an assistant to the director of that Bureau. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the title of that division or branch? 

Mr. Remington. The Orders and Regulations Bureau. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the general function of the planning 
committee or commission of the War Production Board of which you 
were a staff member? 

Mr. Remington. The general function of that committee was to 
propose ways and means of stepping up the war-production program 
to reach a reasonable maximum war effort in the production field. 

Mr. Tavenner. And who was your immediate superior while you 
served on that planning committee, and what was his title? 

Mr. Remington. My formal superior was Mr. Edward Dickinson, 
the director of the staff. I think his title was Director of the Plan- 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1825 

ning Committee. I was assigned for some purposes to a unit headed 
by Mr. Thomas Wilson. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the character of that assignment? 

Mr. Remington. I worked on raw-materials control and production 
scheduling during almost all of my time with the planning commit- 
tee, and Sir, Wilson was responsible for that type of work in the 
planning committee staff. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was Mr. Wilson's title ; do you recall ? 

Mr. Remington. I am sorry. I don't recall the name of the section 
or unit or division which he headed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall his full name, or his first name ? 

Mr. Remington. Tom Wilson. 

Mv. Tavenner. Were you engaged in that particular assignment 
during the entire time you were with the War Production Board ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. I have said that I transferred to the 
Oi'ders and Regulations Bureau. 

Mr. Tavenner. But from February 1942 until the middle of 1943, 
when you were transferred to the Orders and Regulations Bureau, you 
worked under Mr. Tom Wilson ? 

Mr. Remington. For the most part, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us what was the character of your duties while 
toigaged in that particular work under Mr. Tom Wilson. 

Mr. Remington. I prepared a plan — I should say I assisted in the 
preparation of a plan — for raw-materials control. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you explain to the committee what you mean 
by raw-materials control ? 

Mr. Remington. During the war raw materials were scarce. There 
were requirements for most raw materials which, in the aggregate, 
exceeded supply. It was the responsibility of the War Production 
Board to find ways and means of getting materials to the factories for 
the purposes which the military agencies considered important, and 
which the Civilian Requirements Division considered important to 
maintain essential civilian services. I worked on ways and means of 
getting the materials to the place they were needed. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Did that connnittee likewise make recommendations 
or enter into the planning of what materials should be controlled ? 

Mr. Remington. No. There was another committee to do that. I 
imagine the Planning Committee, being in very close touch with the 
other parts of the War Production Board, were not uninformed about 
the problem that you raised. However, I never attended a meeting of 
the Planning Committee. I do know there was another committee 
with the responsibility which you have just described. 

Mr. Tavenner. It w^as necessary, however, to carry out the functions 
of the committee with regard to raw materials acting under Mr. Tom 
Wilson, for it to have knowledge and be informed of what raw 
materials were under control ? 

Mr. Remington. I certainly knew what raw materials were under 
control. 

Mr. Tavenner. You had to deal with those subjects daily, I assume ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. So did every businessman who wanted to 
produce anything, anything at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. That control was extended, was it not, to all sorts 
of raw materials which were used in the manufacture and production 
of such weapons as airplanes ? 



1826 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remingtox. The controls which I worked on and helped to 
plan were limited to a few materials. 

JNIr. Tavenner. Materials that were used in what fields, for 
instance? 

Mr. Remington. Materials that were used in everything from dish- 
pans to razor blades to the eyelets in your shoes, and including military 
products, of course. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. And also including airplane production? 

Mr. Remington. Of course. 

Mr. Tavexner. Was that group ever consulted or have anything to 
do with tlie licensing of any materials which were under control for 
export to foreign countries ? 

Mr. Remington. No. I know of no such consultation or activity. 

Mr. Tavenner. A person in the position which you occupied with 
that particular group, working on raw materials, was in position to 
have special knowledge regarding control of materials. That is true, 
isn't it ? 

Mr. Remington. I had knowledge of the control techniques. I 
helped to write them. 

Mr. Tavenner. As well as the particular identity of the items under 
control ? 

Mr. Remington. If I knew which materials were under control, 
I knew their particular identity. They were steel, copper, and alum- 
inum. I certainly knew their identity. I know that steel is used 
in a variety of products. I did not know, I had no connection with, 
the problem of deciding how much steel to put into individual end 
products. That was handled by the so-called Requirements Com- 
mittee and Program Adjustment Committee, for which I did not 
work. 

Mr. Tavenner. If I understand your testimony correctly, your job 
was to see that those materials got to the defense plants where the 
controlled materials were used? 

Mr. Remington. The Materials Branches had the responsibility 
for getting the materials, getting them produced, getting them flow- 
ing. I worked as a technician on control techniques, scheduling 
techniques. 

Mr. Tavenner. What information did you have in 1943 regarding 
the existence of the Manhattan project ? 

Mr. Remington. In 1943 I believe I knew nothing about the Man- 
hattan project. Early in 1944 I knew that a Manhattan project 
existed. I knew that the priorities issued for the Manhattan project 
were overriding priorities. They gave us certain problems with 
respect to our priorities regulations which the Orders and Regulations 
Bureau enforced, or rather wrote and reviewed. I also knew tliat 
these overriding priorities were giving particular problems in the 
field of certain components which were used in the high octane gaso- 
line program. I drew the inference from that — an inference which 
I never mentioned to anyone, not even my associates, that I recall — 
I drew the inference that the Manhattan project was a project dealing 
with high octane gasoline. 

Mr. Tavenner. These overriding priorities to which you refer as 
related to the Manhattan project, did they designate the Manhattan 
project in any manner? How did you know they related to the Man- 
hattan project? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1827 

Mr. Remington. As I recall it, we had an inquiry or two or three 
about overriding priorities for some components which took those 
components away from some use which would have been appropriate 
under the priorities regulations, particularly what was known as 
Priorities Regulation 1, and awarded them to a destination known as 
the Manhattan project. I assumed it was an installation in New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall some of the materials which were 
given an overriding priority for the use of the Manhattan project, for 
instance ? 

Mr. Remington. I recall that these priorities affected certain com- 
ponents, certain fabricated items, which are used in refineries. 

Mr. Tavenner. A person occuying the position you occupied at 
that time would have the same general information and knowledge 
regarding airplane production and military and naval weapons gen- 
erally, would he not ? 

Mr. Remington. I am not sure what you mean by the same knowl- 
edge. If you mean that I knew airplanes required certain components 
like landing gear and engines ; yes, I knew that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of course that is quite obvious, but I meant, a per- 
son working with the group to which you were assigned, in dealing 
with raw materials, would necesarily have knowledge of overriding 
priorities of raw materials destined to go into the production of air- 
planes and weapons, on the same principle that you have given us 
as to your knowledge of such materials destined to go to the Man- 
hattan engineering project? 

Mr. Remington. May I answer your question, sir, by telling you 
briefly how the priority system worked and what I did about it? 

Mr. Tavenner. I would be very glad for you to do that, but would 
you answer the question, please ? 

Mr. Remington. I would appreciate your restating the question, 
please, because as it was asked there is no answer that I know of. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will try to reframe it. You have told us that a 
person working in the capacity in which you were working would 
have occasion to know of the overriding priorities which came down 
to that committee directing the use of certain raw materials by the 
Manhattan engineering project. Now I am asking you if a person 
working in that capacity wouldn't have the same knowledge, or the 
same means of knowing, about overriding priorities regarding ma- 
terials which were expected to go into the manufacture of arms, am- 
munition, and airplanes? 

Mr. Remington. Sir, I am going to speak in precise technical terms 
as used by the War Production Board. I had no knowledge of over- 
riding priorities coming down to the committee from the Manhattan 
project. As far as I know, there were no overriding priorities that 
came down to any committee I had anything to do with. Does that 
answer the question directly, sir, or would you like me to describe 
what happened ? 

Mr. Wood. The committee will have to suspend for 20 minutes so 
that the members may have an opportunity to answer the roll call. 
We will then resume the hearing at a quarter to 12. 

In the meantime, sir (addressing Mr. Rauh) , in view of your request, 
and in order that we may not break into the time of the testimony, 
while the committee is in recess I will direct the counsel to make avail- 
able to you the testimony you requested, so that you may have an oppor- 
tunity to look at it in the hearing room. 



1828 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Walter. That is the testimony of Bridgman and McConnell? 

Mr. Wood. Yes. 

Mr. Kauh. Thank you. 

( Short recess. ) 

(The hearing is resumed at 11 : 45 a. m., Messrs. Wood, Walter, and 
Harrison being present.) 

Mr. Wood. The subcommittee will be in order. 

Mr. Rauh. Mr. Chairman, I would like to say one thing. Even 
a cursory glance at these two transcripts in the 20 minutes I have 
had shows gaps and holes you could drive a truck through. I would 
like to keep these for the remainder of the day, working in your office 
and under you control. I am convinced that these documents carry 
the seeds of their own destruction. 

Mr. Wood. The committee is not interested in argument. 

Mr. Rauh. May I keep them ? 

Mr. AVooD. You may continue to examine them, when we are through 
with this hearing, for any time you desire, in the committee room. 

Mr. Rauh. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will the reporter read the answer to the last ques- 
tion, please ? 

(The answer referred to was read by the reporter, as follows :) 

Sir, I am going to speak in precise teolinical terms as used by the War Pro- 
duction Board. I had no knowledge of overriding priorities coming down to 
the committee from the Manhattan project. As far as I know, there were no 
overriding priorities that came down to any committee I had anything to do 
with. Does that answer the question directly, sir, or would you like me to 
describe what happened? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Remington, I have had written the answer to 
the first question asked you along this line, which I think makes plain 
what I was attempting to inquire about : 

Question. What information did you have in 1943 regarding the existence of 
the Manhattan project? 

Mr. Remington. In 1943 I believe I knew nothing about the Manhattan project. 
Early in 1944 I knew that a Manhattan project existed. I knew that the priori- 
ties issued for the Manhattan project were overriding priorities. They gave us 
certain problems with respect to our priorities regulations which the Orders and 
Regulations Bureau enforced, or rather wrote and reviewed. I also knew that 
these overriding priorities were giving particular problems in the field of certain 
components which were used in the liigh-octane gasoline program. I drew the 
inference from that — an inference which I never mentioned to anyone, not even 
my associates, that I recall — I drew the Inference that the Manhattan project 
was a project dealing with high-octane gasoline. 

And the further question : 

The.se overriding priorities to which you refer as related to the Manhattan 
project, did they designate the Manhattan project in any manner? How did you 
know they related to the Manhattan project? 

Mr. Remington. As I recall it, we had an inquiry or two or three about over- 
riding priorities for some components which took those components away from 
some use which would have been appropriate under the priorities regulations, 
particularly what was known as Priorities Regulation 1, and awarded them to a 
destination known as the Manhattan project. I assumed it was an installation in 
New York. 

Does that not mean that you did have knowledge, and there did 
come to your attention overriding priorities relating to raw materials 
with which you were dealing? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1829 

Mr. Tavenner. If you had that knowledge and acquired such in- 
formation in regard to a matter as secret as the Manhattan engineer- 
ing project, you had it also in the fields of defense weapons generally 
and airplanes, did you not ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. I knew that priorities were issued for 
many military uses; that these priorities were served on manufac- 
turers, who made the shipments in accordance with priorities. 

Mr. Tavenner. And having that information, you were acquainted 
with the general volume of raw materials which were being diverted to 
these particular enterprises, were you not? 

Mr. Remington. I did not know the volume of raw materials which 
were given to, allocated to, the specific end products in any fashion 
except what I read generally about the war production program. I 
was not in the part of the war production program which divided up 
the materials as between one use and another. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you only knew about the general uses to which 
those raw materials were being diverted ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes ; and I also would add that I was a specialist 
on the control techniques, the priorities regulations, and other public 
orders of the War Production Board. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you continue to function with that Committee, 
acting under Mr. Tom Wilson, until 1944, when you withdrew from 
the War Production Board ? 

Mr, Remington. No, sir. I believe Mr. Wilson left the War Pro- 
duction Board when the Planning Committee was in process of temii- 
nation in 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. I can understand your answer in view of the lan- 
guage of my question, but I meant, did you continue to engage in 
that same work during your entire employment with the War Pro- 
duction Board? 

INIr. Remington. I moved from the Planning Committee to the Or- 
ders and Regulations Bureau in 1943, but in Both jobs I was specializ- 
ing in these control techniques and procedures. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the general nature of your duties after 
you were transferred to the Orders and Regulations Bureau? 

Mr. Remington. I was a general assistant to the Director of the 
Bureau. In that capacity I was partly responsible, largely respon- 
sible, I should say, for the supervision of the staff economists. The 
nature of our work was to circulate proposed orders and regulations 
to the interested agencies, to review their comments, to decide what 
changes would be necessary before approval of a proposed order or 
regulation or change in order or regulation, and to decide whether or 
not the order or regulation should be issued as proposed, with changes, 
or not at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Therefore the opportunities for knowledge of the 
workings of the War Production Board by a person serving in that 
capacity were very large, were they not, with reference to how raw 
materials were being used in tlie war effort ? 

Mr. Remington. I was well acquainted with the War Production 
Board, sir; yes. I knew, I believe, a great deal about the material- 
control procedures, the priorities regulations, and the other public 
orders and regulations of the War Production Board. 



1830 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Tavenni:r. And the problems that arose in the furnishing of 
particular raw materials for particular purposes; is that not true^ 

Mr. Remington. I believe so. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. You told us in your earlier testimony that at the 
home of your mother-in-law in New York you met a person by the 
name of Joseph North ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tamsnner. When did you first meet him ? 

Mr. Remington. I met him at the home of my ex-mother-in-law — 
I want to make it clear that there is no longer any legal relationship 
or personal relationship or any other relationship — sometime in 
the winter of 1939-40, w^ien I was living in New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet him frequently at the home of your 
mother-in-law ? 

Mr. Remington. I went to the home of my mother-in-law almost 
every week end from New York. I believe he was in her house for 
anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours half of those week ends, 
or certainly a great many of those week ends; I couldn't say ho^^ 
many. He was a frequent visitor, in other words. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere did he live? 

Mr. Remington. He lived in what had been the garage of the house 
of my former mother-in-law, which was perhaps 50 feet from my 
ex-mother-in-law's house. 

Mr. Tavenner. And on the same property ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did you become very well acquainted with Mr. North 
during the period you knew him there ? 

Mr. Remington. I became acquainted with him as a frequent visitor, 
as a person with whom I had many social conversations. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not certain whether you have told us over how 
long a period of time you associated with Mr. North there at the 
property of your mother-in-law ? 

Mr. Remington. During the academic year 1939-40, when I was at 
Columbia, I believe I saw him many of the week ends that I was in 
Croton. I was there, as I have indicated, almost every week end. In 
May of 1940 I accepted employment in Washington. I was in Croton 
perhaps once during the summer, when I may have seen him. 

During the winter of 1940^1 I was in Croton on a few occasions, 
although I was residing in Washington. During the summer of 1941 
I was in Croton at least once. During the winter of 1941-4:2 I believe 
I was in Croton once or twice. 

On most of these occasions I believe that I would have seen Mr. North, 
because, as I indicated, he was a frequent visitor at my ex-mother-in- 
law's house. Both houses were in the same yard, and there was con- 
stant running back and forth. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you testified earlier that you knew Joseph 
North to be a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. I knew him to be editor of the New Masses, and I 
certainly assumed that he was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. In your conversations with him over the course of 
approximately 2 or 2i/^ years, did he argue with you or state in your 
presence many times views indicating to you that he was a member 
of the Communist Party ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1831 

Mr. Remington. Yes. I so interpreted what he said. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. There is no question about it, that you recognized 
him as a Communist ? 

Mr. ReminG'Tjon. No question in my mind. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. After you became employed by the War Production 
Board, did he show any interest in your work with the War Produc- 
tion Board? 

Mv. Remington. Yes. 

]Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of that interest? 

Mv. Reimington. He was interested in whether or not the adminis- 
tration in Washington was making a sincere and determined effort to 
produce war materiel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that all ? 

Mr. Remington. That was the nature of his interest, the only nature 
of his interest which became apparent to me. 

Mr. Tavanner. And did not he desire to know, or did he desire to 
know, anything about the character of your work or the nature of the 
organization of the War Production Board? 

Mr. Remington. He was, as I recall, certainly interested in the 
nature of the organization of the War Production Board. I am sure I 
described to him the nature of that organization. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. You mean by that, how it was organized and how 
it functioned? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. And was he also interested in the personnel of the 
Board, as to who they were ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he interested in learning facts relating to the 
personalities of different members of the Board? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat other matters, if any, did he indicate an 
interest in, in regard to the War Production Board ? 

Mr. Remington. I recall he indicated an interest in knowing whether 
any high-ranking member of the Board would y\iiie an article for 
his magazine. He did secure such an article. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you assist in any way in procuring such an 
article ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether or not arrange- 
ment was made by Mr. Joseph North to invite you to dinner to meet 
a friend of his ? 

Mr, Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did that occur ? 

Mr. Remington. That occurred in the winter of 1941-42. I believe 
it was during the period of time whene I was up in Crot on (around 
Christmas. I could not place it more definitely than that. I know 
that I was in Croton for a week end early in that winter. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat year was that? 

Mr. Remington. The winter of 1941^2. 

Mr. TA\Ti:NNER. Then where did you go for dinner, do you recall ? 

Mr. Remington. I recall having lunch with Mr. North and a friend 
of his, to whom he introduced me, at a restaurant in midtown Man- 
hattan. That restaurant has been identified in previous hearings, as 
you know. 



1832 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Tavenner. And what is the name of it ? 

Mr. Remington. It is a restaurant, Child's or Schrafft's, it slips my 
mind at the moment, in the vicinity of Lexington Avenue and Thirty- 
second Street, thereabouts, within a block or two. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the person whom you met at that dinner Jacob 
Golos? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. North state to you why he wanted you to 
meet Mr. Golos ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Tavenner. What statement did he make ? 

Mr. Remington. He said that what I had been telling him about 
the sincerity of the administration in pushing for a high level of 
war production was very interesting; he thought a friend of his, a 
writer, would like to learn or should learn about it, perhaps. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Mr. Golos w^as a member 
of the Communist Party or affiliated with it or with any Communist- 
front organization at that time ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Mr. Chairman, the records of the committee show 
that Mr. Golos is now deceased; that he was identified by Manning 
Johnson, in his testimony before this committee, as the head of World 
Tourists, which has been cited as a Communist-front organization; 
and that he was named in a letter by the office of the Attorney General 
to the District of Columbia Federal Court, asking that a special grand 
jury investigate his alleged misrepresentations and omissions in con- 
nection with filing registration statements with the State Department 
as agent of a foreign government. I have no information as to the 
result of that investigation, if one was conducted. 

Mr. Remington, did you at any time prior to the end of 1944 learn 
that Mr. Golos was in any way affiliated with the Communist Party or 
any Communist-front organization? 

Mr. Remington. No; as I have testified before the Senate investi- 
gating subcommittee, as is shown by the record; and as I have testified 
before the loyalty boards. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Golos state to you on that occasion when 
you met him — and was that the first time you had met him? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. That he was looking for information on various 
things for books and articles which he proposed to write, and in- 
cluded among those things, facts about the organization of the war 
production program ; facts about the progress of the war production 
program ; production data ; and matters of that kind ? 

]\Ir. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Did he also state to you and emphasize to you that 
he was most strongly interested in knowing about the personalities 
in the war production program, their backgrounds, opinions, and 
attitudes? 

]\Ir. Reminqton. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he at that time make an appointment to meet 
you again ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And how soon was it after that that you met him ? 

Mr. Remington. Very soon thereafter I met him for supper. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1833 

Mr. Tavenner. On that occasion did he bring another person with 
him to meet you ? 

Mr. Remington. He did. 

Mr. Tavenner. And who was that person ? 

Mr. Remington. Miss Helen Johnson, subsequently known to me 
as Elizabeth T. Bentley. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Did he indicate to you at the time that she was 
working for him ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, and for others. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the character of the work that he told 
jou she was doing ? 

jMr. Remington. He said that she did miscellaneous research for 
writers such as himself. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he reiterate the character of the information 
that he was interested in obtaining from you, similar to what you have 
testified before? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. , 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he make arrangement with you at that time 
that the person knows to you at that time as Helen Johnson would 
call upon you in Washington and obtain that information from you? 

Mr. Remington. He made no formal arrangement. He did say 
that he would appreciate it if I chatted with her about this kind of 
problem if she called me in Washington. I had the clear impression 
she probably would call, but there was no formal arrangement. 

Mr. Tai-enner. How soon after that was it that you saw her again ? 

Mr. Remington. A few weeks, several weeks, after our discussion 
in New York. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. Where did you meet her ? 

ISIr. Remington. In Washington. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where in AVashington? 

Mr. Remington. She called me on the telephone. I believe she 
called me at the number in the phone book, but reached me at my 
office. We met the first time, I believe, on the corner of Pennsylvania 
and Fourteenth Street for a luncheon appointment. 

Mr. Ta\t2xner. For a luncheon appointment? Who made the ap- 
pointment for lunch, you or she? 

Mr. Remington. She called me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she suggest lunch? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Did you meet for another purpose on that occasion? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, this was purely a social meeting 
between the two of you ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then wlien did you meet the next time? Before I 
ask you that question, did you furnish her with any information of 
any character on that occasion relating to the functioning of the War 
Production Board ? j 

Mr. Remington. I did, in the sense that we discussed the War 
Production Board in general terms. 

Mr. Tavenner. And did you also discuss the nature of your duties 
and your position? 

Mr. Remington. I would assume so. I have no clear recollection of 
describing my duties. 



1834 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Tavenner, In fact, didn't you advise her of the type of work 
that you were in and the type of matters of which you would have 
knowledge ? 

Mr. Remington. I would assume we discussed what I did in the 
War Production Board, of course. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was the next occasion on which you met her? 

Mr. Remington. Several weeks after that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us about that? Where did you meet? 

Mr. Remington. We met at two or three different places in the 
course of half a dozen meetings. I do not recall precisely where we 
met the S^econd time as opposed to the third or fourth, so I could not 
give an accurate answer to that question of Avhere we met the second 
time. I do know that on more than one occasion she called up and 
asked me if I would be free for lunch. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she ever meet you in your office, or did she ever 
come to your office ? 

Mr. Remington. Not to my recollection. I don't think she did. 
I asked her to come over to the office on one occasion when I could 
not make a luncheon appointment. I believe she refused on grounds 
that it was too far away, or for some other reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then did you meet her on the occasion when you 
say she refused to come to your office ? 

Mr. Remington. I don't know if that was an occasion on which we 
did make an appointment or not. 

Mr. Taat3NNer. Were there any occasions that you are now certain 
of on which she called you in order to talk to you when you didn't 
meet her ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many? 

Mr. Remington. I have no recollection of that, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give the committee your best judgment 
on it ? 

Mr. Remington. I know that during the latter part of our brief 
acquaintance — or our casual acquaintance, I should say, because it 
stretched out over a period of somewhat less than 2 years — during 
the latter ])art of that period I was increasingly skeptical of the point 
of trying to get across to her the things that we wanted to get into 
the newspapers. Wlien one wants to get something into the news- 
papers one prefers to talk to reporters and analysts who obviously 
know what they are doing. I was becoming increasingly skeptical of 
Miss Bentley's professional abilit^^, and so I was increasingly reluctant 
to spend the time for a purpose which it seemed would not bear fruit 
for the organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then it seems it was you who were anxious to get 
in touch with her in order to get over some point for the War Produc- 
tion Board? Is that what you mean to tell us? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. I mean when she called me I was ready 
and willing to talk to her, as I would be ready and willing to discuss 
public information with any citizen, particularly a person who said 
he was working for the press. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Then it is not correct that the War Production 
Board had a point that it was trying to get over with the person you 
knew as Helen Johnson ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1835 

Mr. Remington. The War Production Board had a great deal that 
it was trying to make clear to the public, to the ]Dress. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you representing the War Production Board 
in trying to make anything clear to Helen Johnson for publication? 
Was that your purpose? 

Mr. Remington. I talked to Helen Johnson believing that it was 
helpful from the point of view of my office in the War Production 
Board to put her straight on the facts about the public activities of 
the War Production Board, as is made clear, I believe, by the record 
of the Senate investigating subcommittee, and this is also made clear, 
of course, in the discussions before the loyalty boards. 

Mr. Walter. Did the War Production Board have a i^ublic rela- 
tions section ? 

Mr. Remington. It did, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Why didn't you refer this lady to that section, whose 
job it was to explain the operations of the WPB and to furnish 
information? 

Mr. Remington. I believe that is best answered, sir, if I may read 
to you an excerpt from the affidavit of the Chairman of the Planning 
Committee at that time. It is one short paragraph. The Chairman 
of the Planning Committee was Mr. Robert R. Nathan. He said as 
follows, under oath, of course : 

At WPB and other places I have always been willing to talk with reporters 
and columnists. Others associated with me tended to do likewise. I tried to 
use discretion in handling material so as to benefit the agency and the Govern- 
ment and the country. ^ never objected to my associates or subordinates talk- 
ing with reporters, and we often discussed the value of getting accurate unclassi- 
fied material into the hands of the press, always stressing the use of intelligent 
discretion. Many people on the Planning Commission staff had excellent press 
contacts and used them to the benefit of the WPB and the national interest. I 
saw the press representatives in and out of the office. Many were and are social 
acquaintances and friends. 

Does that answer your question, sir ? 

Mr. Walter. No, it doesn't answer my question. The thing that 
concerned me was this, Why you would be willing to give so much 
of your time to a casual acquaintance rather than have her go to the 
office where, if you were unable to give the information sought, some- 
body else could ? 

Mr. Remington. Sir, you said "so much" of my time. I spent in 
my life, I suppose, somewhat slightly over 6 hours with Miss Bentley, 
meeting her half a dozen times. We might have gone over an hour 
occasionally. On the other hand, we ate quickly and saw each other 
less than an hour on other occasions. 

Mr. Walter. Didn't you feel that meeting somebody who was in- 
troduced to you by a Communist, there might have been something 
unusual about her? 

Mr. Remington. Sir, I didn't know at the time that Mr. Golos was 
a Communist. 

Mr. Wood. But you knew the man who introduced you to Mr. 
Golos was a Communist? 

Mr. Remington. I knew Mr. North was a Communist, but I knew 
an Assistant Vice Chairman of the War Production Board had writ- 
ten for Mr. North's magazine during that period. 



1836 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Wood. Mr. North introduced you to Mr. Golos, and as I under- 
stand, he toki you the information Mr. Golos wanted was informa- 
tion he himself wanted for his writings? 

Mr, Kemington. Yes, and I understood from him Miss Bentley was 
being used by PM. 

Mr. Wood, Mr. Golos was introduced to you by Mr. North, who 
was known to you to be a Communist, and Mr. Golos in turn introduced 
you to Miss Bentley. All those facts didn't register in your mind as 
making Miss Bentley a bad risk to give confidential information to? 

Mr. Remington, They did not. 

(Representative Walter leaves hearing room,) 

Mr. Remington (continuing). I would like to emphasize that I of 
course never discussed with Miss Bentley or anyone else any informa- 
tion that was not available to the public, 

Mr, Wood. Mr. Walter has had to leave the room, and that reduces 
our member-ship to less than a quorum. How long will this interro- 
gation continue? 

Mr. Tavenner. Probably an hour. 

Mr. Wood. Let the record disclose that from here on, since Mv. 
Walter has absented himself, that a subcommittee is being set up 
composed of Mr. Harrison and Mr. Wood for the purpose of further 
conducting this hearing, and in order to conform to legal procedure I 
shall have to ask you to be sworn again. You solemnly swear the 
evidence you give to this subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr, Remington. I do, 

Mr, Harrison, I think the record should show Mr, Walter left the 
room during the course of his last answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Remington, you read an affidavit from which 
I understood the affiant made the statement that some of the members 
of the staff had good press contacts or relationships. Did he know 
of your press relationship with the person known as Helen Johnson ? 

Mr. Remington. I do not know, I certainly made no secret of it. 

Mr, Tavenner. What did you tell him ? 

Mr, Remington. I do not recall specifically discussing it with Mr. 
Nathan, I do recall mentioning it to one other associate, at least. 

Mr, Tavenner. To whom? 

Mr. Remington, I recall mentioning it one day, in passing, to Mr. 
Wilson, as I have previously testified. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did either you or Mr, Wilson undertake to investi- 
gate the press representation of Helen Johnson ? 

Mr, Remington, No. I have never made such a check on any per- 
son who has said he was a reporter. I have talked to literally hun- 
dreds, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. You said you were interested in giving information 
that might be of some advantage to the War Production Board. 
What articles, over this 2-year period, did the news reporter, Helen 
Johnson, show you that she had written? 

Mr, Reisiington, She showed me several articles in PM which I 
understood were based in part upon information which she had col- 
lected. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she also show you articles from the Daily 
Worker? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1837 

Mr. Remington. She also showed me a few articles in the Daily 
Worker, but I did not draw tli<! inference that they were based upon 
information that she had collected. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then what was her purpose in exhibiting these 
articles from the Daily Worker to you ? 

Mr. Remington. She wanted to ask whether viewpoints expressed 
there, and things described there as facts were in fact true. Generally 
they were not. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that is the limit of your knowledge of the 
result of tliese 2 years of reporting ? 

Mr. Remington. That is the limit of my knowledge concerning these 
half dozen brief conversations with Miss Bentley, during which I 
discussed with her only public information. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many times did you meet her? 

Mr. Remington. I believe it was six. She indicated a range of 10 
or 15 meetings or so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Ten to twenty, wasn't it ? 

Mr. Remington. Ten, fifteen or twenty. I think it was six. It 
could be 10, 1 said, but I believe it was six. 

Mr. Tavenner. And all of these 10 meetings you held with a so- 
called representative of the press were out of your office and were on 
street corners and other places ? 

Mr. Remington. They were out of my office in restaurants and 
other places, including a street corner. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were the other places ? 

Mr. Remington. I met her once at the National Art Museum, where 
I had made it a practice of eating lunch occasionally. I met her once 
near my building when she had said that she was on her way to a 
train. I met her there and we sat and talked briefly while she was on 
her way to the train, presumably. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you met — did you say at an art gallery ? 

Mr. Remington. National Art Museum or National Art Gallery; 
I am not sure which title is correct. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Did you meet on the outside and then go in and sit 
down and confer there regarding information that she desired to ob- 
tain from you ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. You did not go inside? 

Mr. Remington. We met inside and we on that occasion, I believe, 
discussed very little about the War Production Board, because it was, 
as I recall it, the last time I talked with her. 

Mr. Tavenner. When Miss Bentley first talked to you about in- 
formation, did you tell her there was information that the War Pro- 
duction Board desired to give her for publication, or did she tell you 
that she was interested in obtaining information from you ? 

Mr. Remington. She said tliat she was interested in learning from 
me about the War Production Board and its problems, its activities. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she also tell you she wanted airplane produc- 
tion data ? 

Mr. Remington. I recall her inquiring of me about airplane produc- 
tion. I don't think that she — I know that she never made any such 
statement as, "I want airplane production data." That would have 

67052 — 50 — pt. 1 10 ' 



1838 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

been an improper question, in my judgment, and I would have reacted 
negatively to any such conversation. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't this question asked you and answer made 
by you in your testimony before the Senate committee, I believe on or 
about August 3, 1948 : 

Question. What information did you give her? 

Answer. The problems that Miss Bentley said she was interested in are as 
follows : I believe she said, and I am just recalling. I have no notes on this with 
me. She said she wanted airplane production data, War Production Board 
internal policies 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing reading). 

— — she said formulas. 

Mr. Remington. She did not ask me any such question, sir, as you 
suggested earlier. 

Mr. Wood. Just a moment. The question now is. Is that in sub- 
stance what you answered ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was your answer ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, and my previous answer to your previous 
question, sir, was that she did not say, "Give me airplane production 
data." She indicated that she was interested in knowing about air- 
plane production information insofar as that information was public, 
and that is what I discussed with her. She asked me no improper 
question which would have put me on my guard, is the point I am 
making. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. So then, after all, she did state to you that she was 
interested in airplane production data, War Production Board in- 
ternal policies, and formulas ? 

(Mr. Remington nods head in affirmative.) 

Mr, Tavenner. You are nodding your head in approval, but that 
cannot be recorded. 

Mr. Remington. I am sorry, sir. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall discussing with her, that is, with 
Helen Johnson, internal policies of the War Production Board re- 
garding materials which would likely be allocated to Russia ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, I discussed with her the policies of the War 
Production Board regarding the control of materials, and I assume 
that many of these materials were allocated to Russia; about that I 
have no knowledge. 

I want to emphasize that I discussed this material control problem 
with her because I was one of the two men in the War Production 
Board who first originated the proposals for "vertical" control of 
materials. AVe develo]:)ed the controlled materials plan in the War 
Production Board on the basis of the reconnnendations and the work 
of another man and myself. This controlled materials plan was bit- 
terly attacked by the Communists. I claim considerable credit for 
having originated and developed the materials control plan which was 
anathema to the Connnunist Party. This is borne out by affidavits 
from Mr. Charles J. Hitch, with whom I worked, and by numerous 
other evidence. 

Mr. Tavenner. "WHien was that? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1839 

Mr. Remington. That was during 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. During that period when that work was being 
done by you. were you asked by Helen Johnson about those internal 
policies oi the War Production Board with regard to allocating 
materials to Russia? 

Mr. Remington. No; not about allocating materials to Russia. I 
knew nothing about that whatsoever. 

Mr. Tavenner. You did not discuss that with her ? 

Mr. Remington. No; unless we discussed some article that had 
appeared in the newspapers about lend-lease to Russia or something 
of that sort. I had no information from my work on that subject. 
But I want to emphasize that at these lunches with Miss Bentley, 
which were social in their character, we discussed the range of current 
events which are in the newspapers and which everyone discusses at 
lunch. 

Mv. Tavenner. Did she discuss with you and ask you for infor- 
mation on the ranking people in the War Production Board who 
were in a position to help Russia get more than she was getting ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us about that. 

Mr. Remington. She asked me about several individuals in the War 
Production Board who were in the news, men responsible for policy. 
She asked particularly if these men were sincerely interested in fight- 
ing an all-out-war, or if they were what she described as "business-as- 
usual" in their attitudes. 

Mr. Tavenner. My question was this, and your answer was in the 
affirmative ; whether she asked you for information on ranking people 
in the War Production Board who were in a position to help Russia 
get more than she was getting. What information did you give her 
regarding persons on the Board who were in a position to help Rus- 
sia get more than she was getting ? 

Mr. Remington. I don't know who specifically was in such a posi- 
tion, I assume Mr. Nelson and Mr. Batt, the Chairman and Mr. Batt 
at one time was Vice Chairman of the War Production Board, were 
in a position such as you describe. I don't know that from personal 
knowledge, but I assume it. She asked me what kind of reputation 
Mr. Nelson had, and what kind of reputation Mr. Batt had. I indi- 
cated to her the very high opinion in which their subordinates held 
those two gentlemen and also others. 

jSIr. Tavenner. Did you report to your superior that Helen John- 
son, who had been introduced to you as a result of the action of 
Joseph North, had been inquiring about the personal integrity of 
officers and employees in the War Production Board ? 

ISIr. Remington. No. I don't believe she ever inquired about the 
personal integrity of anyone; certainly not to my recollection. She 
inquired as to their effectiveness as leaders of the War Production 
Board. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did not the nature of the inquiries she made of you 
create suspicion in your mind as to the objects and purposes and aims 
of Helen Johnson ? 

Mr. Remington. No. Perhaps half a dozen reporters every day 
w^ere asking similar questions of the planning committee staff members, 
and probably dozens of reporters a day were asking similar questions 



1840 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

of War Production Board personnel outside of the Information 
Division. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you take documentary evidence of any char- 
acter, or notes, for delivery to Helen Johnson on any of these 6 to 10 
occasions that you met her at various places? 

Mv. Hemington. Yes. I took her copies of War Production Board 
forms and news releases which described the materials control tech- 
niques that I discussed with her. I also recall distinctly on one occasion 
when she had telephoned me and said that she was interested in 
chatting with me about some problem which I do not now recall, that I 
picked up a copy of the Kiplinger newsletter which had happened to 
include an item on that subject, made some notes, and rushed off to 
keep an appointment with her. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your purpose in getting her excerpts from 
the newsletter ? 

]Mr. Remington. Sir, when I am going to chat with someone I try 
to give the illusion of being as well informed as I can. 

Mr. Tavenner. So your furnishing of information was just an effort 
on your part to impress Helen Johnson. Is that what you would have 
the committee understand? 

Mr. Remington. I doubt if I had any incentive to impress Helen 
Johnson, as I remember her. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then why did you take the course you have just 
described you took? 

Mr. Remington. I have a certain, perhaps misplaced, desire to 
learn. I saw nothing unusual in picking up a Kiplinger newsletter 
to read. A lot of people do. 

Mr. Tavenner. But this was information you were giving to her ? 

Mr. Remington. Information I was going to discuss with her. If 
the Kiplinger newsletter said that there were X billion dollars appro- 
priations pending before Congress, I didn't want to talk to a reporter 
and research worker and give a figure that was 10 billion off or 1 
billion off or even 30 cents oflf. 

Mr. Tavenner. This statement which I am now going to read you is 
a statement in the possession of the committee of testimony of Miss 
Bentley before the Senate committee on August 3, 1948 : 

Question. The information, how did he give it to yon? 

Answer. Well, in common with all the aircraft figures that he brought, he 
informed me that he could not bring out original things because lie might be 
detected and that he had carefully taken down these little formulas and figures 
on scraps of paper because they were easier to put in his pocket, you see, and 
no one would suspect it and he was very nervous, very jittery, and obviously 
scared to death that anybody would find out what lie was doing. 

Now, you have spoken of taking notes. Did you take notes to her 
on any other occasion than the one you mentioned, which you took 
from the newsletter? 

Mr. Remington. I believe I did. I don't recall specifically. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you write formulas and figures on scraps of 
pa]:)er and give them to her ? 

Mr. Remington. No. I wrote nothing for here except that on the 
copies of material control forms I made explanatory notes for her. 
T was trying to teach her — apparently unsuccessfully — something 
about facts of public materials control procedures. I never made 
notes on any figures for her. I did, when she told me over the phone 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1841 

what she wanted to talk about at hmch, what subject she hoped to 
gather information on for her newspaper superiors, I made some 
rough notes for my own information so that I would not misinform 
her. Reporters do not like to be misinformed, and Government men 
and private citizens, I think, have a public duty not to misinform 
reporters. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you had those memoranda with you at the 
time you talked to her ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Remingtox. Yes; I had notes on some of those occasions, as 
I have said many times in ])ublic. This was the subject of an investi- 
gation before a Senate connnittee, and I have gone over it in great 
detail in loyalty hearings, and I received a substantial settlement in 
a libel suit on the basis of this same incident. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who paid that substantial amount of damages to 
you ? 

Mr. Rauii. That is not a matter that Mr. Remington could properly 
answer. There was an agreement between counsel that that would 
not be made public. 

Mr. Wood. The question was asked of the witness, not counsel. 

Mr. Raupi. You said at the beginning of the hearing the witness 
could consult with counsel. 

Mr. Wood. The witness can confer with counsel. The witness will 
answer the questions. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Remington. At the time of the settlement counsel for the 
parties agreed that the details of the settlement would be kept 
confidential. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have seen fit to mention it two or three times 
during the course of this hearing. 

Mr. Remington. I mentionecl it once, sir, and I did not give any 
details. The agreement was to keep it confidential. If you desire 
me to break that agreement, I, of course, have no alternative, but I 
want to make it clear that I consider myself bound by it unless you 
require me to break it. 

Mr. Wood. This committee is not requiring you to do anything ex- 
cept answer questions if you desire to answer them. If you desire to 
answer it, all right; if not, say so, and we Avill get along a lot faster. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Remington. I would prefer, sir, to keep the agreement. The 
other side could give you full information. 

Mr. Wood. I just asked if you want to answer it or not. 

Mr. Remington. I would prefer to keep the agreement, sir, un- 
less 

Mr. Wood. That is not responsive yet. Do you prefer not to answer 
the question? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Remington. I prefer to keep the agreement. 

Mr. Wood, I didnx ask you that. 1 asked if you prefer not to 
answer the question ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time furnish Helen Johnson with a 
formula or data relating to a formula pertaining to some quack anal- 



1842 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

ysis or any otlier kind of analysis for the production of synthetic 
rubber or gasoline? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. I discussed that with her. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you present her with such a formula? 

Mr. Remington. I discussed with her a quack proposal which had 
wasted a lot of our time. I could not present her a formula, because 
that is a matter of chemistry, which I know nothing about. I could 
describe a formula to her, which I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that was some of the information which the 
War Production Board was anxious to have publicized? 

Mr. Remington. Not as far as I know, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have apparently tried to leave with the com- 
mittee the impression that you were giving her exact information 
relating to operations of the War Production Board. 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mv. Tavenner. And that you didn't want to fool the press. 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yet you furnished to this member of the press that 
information ? 

Mr. Remington. There was nothing secret, confidential, or restricted 
about the facts of the formula at the time when I mentioned it to her. 
I didn't mean to mislead her, goodness knows. I meant her to under- 
stand that we — not I, but some friends of mine — had wasted a lot of 
time following up some quack proposals, and I mentioned it to her 
in passing as an illustration of why we couldn't do everything at once, 
because we had to spend time on that kind of nonsense. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you furnish her information on any other proc- 
ess or formula ? 

Mr. Remingtc n. I described to her the two which you mention. One 
had to do with liigh octane gasoline, and the other was a proposal for 
making some kind of synthetic rubber out of garbage, ancl that is just 
what it was, too. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned the fact that she presented articles 
from the Daily Worker to you on occasions. Did you purchase the 
Daily Worker from her? 

Mr. Remington. She passed me her personal copy of the Daily 
Worker at least once, because she wanted me to think about same things 
that had been written there. I asked her about some things that had 
been written there. I asked her if she was going to get another one, 
and she said she supposed so, and I gave her a nickel. 

Mr. Tavenner. How frequently did it occur that you purchased a 
Daily Worker from her, or acquired it in the method that you de- 
scribed ? 

ISIr. Remington. I understand one Daily Worker and two or three- 
PM's. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Did you pay Communist Party dues, or dues of any 
other character, to the person known to you as Helen Johnson ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. You paid no sums of money to her other than for 
the Daily Worker under the circumstances you have described? 

Mr. Remington. I did give her other money than that. 

Mr. Tavenner. For what purposes? 

]\Ir. Remington. I gave her money as a donation for refugees from 
Hitler, as I understood it. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1843 

Mr. Tavenner, When did that occur? 

Mr. Remington. That occurred during the time that I knew Miss 
Bentley. That would be 1942 and 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. Over the period of 2 years ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. I gave her such a donation on a couple of 
occasions when she said these refugees needed help. This is on my 
income-tax returns. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Are you refreshing your recollection from testimony 
given in a previous hearing ? You have a right to do that. Are you ? 

j\lr. Remington. I think you will find I answered your question 
first, and then looked down to see what Mr. Rauh had underlined, and 
he had underlined "income-tax returns" and I added that to my 
answer. 

Mr. Tav-enner. So over the period 1942 and 1943 you made dona- 
tions to Helen Johnson ? 

Mr. Remington. To these refugees, as I understood it, through 
Helen Johnson. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did you make your last donation to her for 
that purpose ? 

Mr. Remington. Sometime in 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you state that it was reflected in your income 
tax return? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. For what year ? 

Mr. Remington. For 1942 and 1943, as I recall it. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the amount of the contributions ? 

Mr. Remington. I believe that the sum total of them was in the 
vicinity of $30. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean $30 each year, or $15 a year ? 

Mr. Remington. I believe it was in the vicinity of about $30 total, 
but that is a recollection. I haven't seen my income tax returns since 
I turned them over to a previous investigation of this same subject. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were tlie circumstances under which you made 
these donations ? 

Mr. Remington. Mr. Golos, in New York, when I met him there on 
the occasions w^e have discussed, told me that he had friends who had 
escaped from Hitler in Germany. He said that they were much in 
need of help, and that there was an organization named tlie Joint 
Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee, with which he had some connection, 
that was helping these men. I was touched by the plight that he 
described them to be in. He asked if I would be willing to make some 
kind of contribution for their relief. At that time I had no money 
with me and I was a little embarrassed ; I wanted to give him some- 
thing for these men ; but this was after he had said that his assistant 
would be probably coming to Washington. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that occurred along about Christmas time in 
the year 1940 ; is tliat correct ? 

Mr. Remington. Or shortly thereafter. Pardon me ; 1941, or shortly 
thereafter. This was, as I testified before, around about Christmas 
of 1941 or some week end, some trip, I made to New York after that 
time but close after it. 

Mr. Tavenner. So as late as 1943 you were making contributions as 
a result of a conversation you had with Mr. Golos along about the 
first of 1941 ? 



1844 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remington. As late as 1943 I acceded to a request from Helen 
Johnson for some money for her friend's friends. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then it was at the request of Helen Johnson, and 
not at the request of Golos ? Is that what I understand ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir, not exactly. Mr. Golos made the request 
in somewhat these terms: If I didn't have money with me, which 
was understandable, maybe his assistant would ask me, if she saw me 
in Washington. I said, yes, I would be glad to make a contribution, 
and in Washington she said to me something to this effect — I think 
this is exact — she said : "Mr. Golos told me that you had indicated 
you would be willing to help out with a donation." And I did. I 
remember her asking that in 1942. In 1943, at least on this one oc- 
casion, she asked again : "Can you spare something again for tlie 
refugees?" She didn't ask it often, but I do recall giving at least 
two such donations, which, as I have said, appear in my income tax 
returns. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is my recollection that the requirements of the 
income tax law required you to designate an organization legally 
established. 

Mr. Remington. Yes, the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee, 
which had been, as far as I know, established as you described. If I 
am wrong, the Internal Revenue Bureau can disallow those deductions 
and I will be glad to pay up, but they never did. I felt it was a 
legitimate organization at that time. 

Mr. Wood, Did you know that organization had been cited by the 
Attorney General as subversive? 

Mr. Remington. I know that now, and I want to make it clear 
that I have made no donations to it since that time, and I have no 
sympathy for any organization which is on that list, and have never 
associated with one after learning about its status. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Was this contribution that you state was made, 
made by you or in your own name or in the name of your wdf e, or how 
was it made? 

Mr. Remington. I took full responsibility for it myself. At the 
time my wife handled the family finances, and so I secured the money 
from her, of course with her consent, but I assume full responsibility 
for it, and I did it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you not previously testified that the contribu- 
tion was your wife's contribution? 

Mr. Remington. I believe I started to say my wife made it because 
imy wife handled the finances, as some wives do, and I discussed it 
with her, got the money from her, and contributed it. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Was your former wife a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Remington. Not to my knowledge. I thank you for referring 
to her as my former wife. I was erroneously referring to her as my 
wife. She is my ex-wife. 

Mr. Tavenner. Haven't you previously testified that she was a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Remington. No; and, sir, there are some things that I hope 
you, as a gentleman, will recognize. I don't want to be in a position 
of talking about my former wife if it is all right with you. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry. I didn't hear what you said. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1845 

Mr. Remington. I did ansAver your question that I have never testi- 
fied that she was a member at any time of the Communist Party. To 
my knowledge she is not and has not been. As I know you, as a gentle- 
man, will appreciate my reluctance to discuss a woman with whom 
I spent many years as man and wife. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever paid Communist Party dues? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Or made contributions other than the contributions 
■which you say you made to the organization of which you testified ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Through Miss Bentley or Helen Johnson? 

Mr. Remington. Not through Miss Bentley, Helen Johnson, or 
anyone else. 

Mr. Tax^enner. How many times did you pay money to her which 
constituted the contribution which you state was made? 

Mr. Remington. I i-emember two at this moment. My income tax 
returns would be the authoritative information regarding that. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Not necessarily so. It would show the gross amount. 
It wouldn't necessarily show each separate contribution. 

Mr. Remington. I believe on my income tax returns I used to 
Feport the date on which I made various contributions. 

Mr. Wood. Are two all you remember now ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes ; I remember two now. 

Mr. Wood. And that is all you do remember ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Harrison, any questions ? 

Mr. Harrison. When the Bentley woman showed you these quota- 
tions from the Daily Worker about which you testified, did you under- 
stand she had written those, or inspired those ? 

Mr. Remington. No. I understood only that she had supplied 
material for the PM stories. 

Mr. Harrison. You did not understand she had supplied informa- 
tion to the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Remington. I do not recall any article she showed me in the 
Daily Worker about which she implied she had furnished research 
material. 

Mr. Harrison. You had no reason to believe she was an employee 
of or supplied material to the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Remington. No. Just PM. 

Mr. Harrison. In the course of your life you have been acquainted 
on more or less terms of friendship with six people — Elizabeth Bent- 
ley, Bridgman, McConnell, Pat Todd, Mrs. Todd, and North — all of 
whom turned out to be Communists. 

Mr. Remington, I am not sure I could accept that from my per- 
sonal knowledge, sir. I know that Mr. Todd refused to testify before 
this committee, as you told me yesterday, but when I saw him he 
did not do anything or say anything that gave me that impression. 

Mr. Harrison. But in each instance your acquaintance with them 
and their membership in the Communist Party was entirely coinci- 
dental. In other words, in no case did your acquaintanceship result 
from Communist Party activity on your part or on their part? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir, because I have always been in a position 
really of hating the concept of a dictatorship, of force and violence, 
which underlies Communist ideology. 



1846 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Harrison. In each of these instances of these six people, at 
some time you were on more or less friendly terms with them ? 

Mr. Kemington. I was not on friendly terms wdth Mr. McConnell. 
I don't recall knowdno; him at all. The others, I was. 

Mr. Harrison. Is there anything that has happened in your personal 
relationship wath any of those persons, that you know of, that would 
cause them to bear false witness against you under oath ? 

(Witness confers w^ith counsel.) 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Harrison. You know of no reason that would induce any of 
those persons to take the witness stand and falsely testify to your meni' 
bership in the Communist Party ? 

]Mr. Remington. ]May I confer with my attorney ? 

Mr, Harrison. Yes. 

(Witness confers wdth counsel.) 

Mr. Remington. Sir, I am sorry for the delay. I know from this 
committee that Mr. Bridgman and Mr. McConnell have said things 
against me. I do not know of any reason they might have to feel 
a personal animosity. As far as Miss Bentley is concerned, I think 
that she was a headline hunter, and there are others of that category ? 

Mr. Harrison. Can you suggest any reason why all three of these 
persons should single you out to bear false witness against you ? 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Remington. You asked if I knew of any reason why they would 
select me. Miss Bentley did not select me particularly. She testified 
about, as I recall, a large number of people. As far as Mr. Bridgman 
and Mr. McConnell are concerned, I do not know whether they selected 
me or not. In the transcripts, of course, they were mentioning other 
people, too. They weren't singling me out. 

Mr. Harrison. But they included you ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Harrison. Wliy would they want to bear false witness against 
you? 

Mr. Remington. I believe, sir, that they included me, perhaps, on 
these grounds : I can't speak about McConnell in this connection, of 
course. 

Mr. Wood. Have you any facts upon which you are going to base 
this conclusion ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. I was active, very active, in the A. F. of 
L. union in Knoxville on the things they would let the kid in that group 
of people do. I apparently w^as associated in those activities with a 
secret Communist, Howard Bridgman. If there were other secret 
(^.ommunists in my group of close friends, I do not know. From Mr. 
Bridgman's testimony there perhaps were. I was w^orking with them, 
talking about the same problems, using the same language. I think 
it possible that JVIr. Bridgman, knowing that this, that and the other 
friend of mine were secret Communists, if they were, I think he might 
assume that I was too. Certainly I was active in those labor union 
activities, which I thought were aboveboard. I can understand, from 
my w^ork, my ass(x;iates, my language, tliat he thought that I was one 
of this group. I have changed, as I think my entire record shows. I 
no longer believe in the type of government initiative on the scale that 
1 believed in in tliat period of time. I have not been active in labor 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1847 

unions since then, altliongh of course we all believe in tlie principles 
of collective bargaining and labor organization, but I have not felt 
any personal inclination to engage in those activities since. 

I have clone, in the last 10 years of my life, 11 years of my life, T 
think as much as any economist of my age in Federal Government to 
combat the things which are dear to the Communists. My record 
in that respect is, I think, a striking one. Before I became an econo- 
mist here in the Federal Government, I had no opportunity to engage 
in such dramatic anti-Communist activities as I have had here in 
Washington, but my convictions and views were incompatible with 
the idea of my having been a Communist, subject to Communist Party 
discipline, and believing in force and violence and dictatorship at that 
time. 

Mr. Wood. I have permitted, Mr. Remington, your dissertation on 
this subject, although it is not responsive to the question I asked you. 
I desire to ask youa question or two myself, and in doing so I shall 
not infringe on your relationship with your former wife more than 
necessary, and certainly not more than was done when you were before 
the Sei:'.ite committee in July of 1948. You were before the Senate 
committee in July 1948, were you not ? 

INIr. Remington. I may have appeared July 31. 

Mr. Wood. Friday, July 30, 1948. 

Mr. Remington. Yes. Miss Bentley testified then and I testified 
during the immediately following days. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. And in the course of your testimony you 
were asked certain questions by Senator Thye ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. And I repeat the question asked and the manner that 
was given, as appeared in the transcript ? 

Senator Thye. And then the mother's influence on the daughter — 

having reference to your mother-in-law and your wife — 

brought about her convictions of the communistic philosophy ? 
Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Wliat did you mean by that if you didn't know your wife was a Com- 
munist, as you have testified here today ? 

Mr. Remington. Sir, I may have misinterpreted his question some- 
^vhat. I don't recall it specifically, 

Mr. Wood. Very well. I will read another one. You have two 
children, have you not? 

Mr. Remington. I have two children, which are a compelling cause 
"why I am reluctant 

]Mr. Wood. You have two children ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. You were asked the question : 

Senator Thye. Are there any children? 

Mr. Remington. Two children. 

Senator Thye. Who has the children? 

Mr. Remington. My wife has them. I have no arrangements to take care of 
them. She has them, and she feeds them and clothes them * * * and f 
have to stand aside and see those children brought up in a creed that I hate 
more than I hate anything in the world. 

What did you mean by that "creed" ? 

Mr. Remington. By that "creed," sir, I mean a kind of materialistic 
philosophy based on the principle of so-called progressive education 



1848 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

that a child's inclinations and desires are more important things to 
express than some of the values and principles in which I was raised. 
I did not mean a Communist Party philosophy, because, as I have 
said, my wife is not a Communist Party member to the best of my 
knowledge, and has not been one. 

Mr. Wood. Then you were in error when you stated to the Senate 
committee in July or August 1948 — and I quote again : 

The mother's influence on the daughter brought about her convictions of 
the communistic philosophy. 

Mr. Remington. I remember certain specific instances which I had 
in mind there, where a husband and wife disagreed on matters of 
political philosophy. 

Mr. Wood. What did you mean by "communistic philosophy"? 
That was the question asked you, and the answer was "Yes," and you 
went on to say, in answering the third question after that, that the 
children were being brought up in a creed that was anathema to you. 

Mr. Remington. Sir, I have two children to whom I am devoted, 
and I think these questions are going to make it more difficult for me 
to influence the way my children grow up. 

Mr. Wood. Is that all the explanation you want to give to those 
two questions I asked you ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir, because I value my relation with my 
children. 

Mr. Wood. I won't press it any further. 

Any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. Mr. Remington, when did you last see or 
communicate with Pat Todd and Betty Todd ? 

Mr. Remington. I recall seeing them here in Washington in the 
late fall of 1938, as I testified yesterday. I recall going through 
Knoxville in the late summer 

Mr. Tavenner. My question was, Wlien did you last see or communi- 
cate with them ? It is not necessary to go too much into detail. 

Mr. Remington. I know I communicated with them and saw them 
in the fall of 1938. I don't think I have seen or communicated with 
them since. However, I know that I tried to see or communicate with 
them coming through Knoxville in September 1939. I do not specifi- 
cally recall succeeding. In any event, I have not seen or communi- 
cated with them since that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Wood. The committee stands adjourned until 10 : 30 tomorrow 
morning. 

(Thereupon, at 1 : 55 p. m. on Friday, May 5, 1950, a recess was 
taken until Saturday, May 6, 1950, at 10: 30 a. m.) 



HEARINGS EEGAEDING COMMUNISM IN THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT— PART 1 



SATURDAY, MAY 6, 1950 

United States House of Representatives, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. G. 

executive session 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice at 11 : 15 a. m. in room 
226, Old House Office Building, Washington, D. C, Hon. John S. 
Wood (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man), Harold H. Velde, and Bernard W. Kearney. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Ta vernier, Jr., counsel ; Louis J. 
R.ussell, senior investigator ; and Donald T. Appell, investigator. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order. 

For purposes of this hearing there has been set up a subcommittee 
composed of Messrs. Velde, Kearney, and Wood. They are all present. 

Mr. Tavenner. Miss Bentley, will you be sworn, please. 

Mr. Wood. You solemnly swear the evidence you give this subcom- 
mittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Miss Bentley. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. 

TESTIMONY OF ELIZABETH T. BENTLEY 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Miss Elizabeth T. Bentley? 

Miss Bentley. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your residence, please? 

Miss Bentley. I have no permanent residence at the present time. 
I am living at the Hotel Commodore until I find a place to live in New 
York. 

Mr. Wood. You are living at the Hotel Commodore where ? 

Miss Bentley. In New York City. I am looking for a permanent 
place, but it is rather difficult. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now employed? 

Miss Bentley. No. I was employed as a political science teacher 
at Mundelein College in Chicago until about February 10, at which 
time I came to New York to fight the libel suit brought against me by 
Mr. William Remington. I am, however, at the present time, doing 
lecturing and writing. That would come under that category. 

Mr. Tavenner. There has been some testimony before this com- 
mittee that the libel suit to which you refer was settled. Did you 
have any part in the settlement of that libel suit? 

1849 



1850 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Miss Bentley. No; I didn't, and I am ratlier glad to bring it out^ 
because there is a great deal of misinformation getting out about it. 

Mr. Wood. In order that the record may be clear, we are now refer- 
ring to the libel suit brought against you by Mr. William Remington 
as a result of a statement made by you in a radio broadcast concerning 
his affiliation with the Communist Party. 

Miss Bentley. Yes. I made a television broadcast on September 
12, 1948, on Mr. Lawrence Spivak's program Meet the Press, and 
I was asked on that program, or rather dared, to come out of my 
immunity and say that Mr. Remington had been a Communist, which 
I did. Subsequently, about a month or two later, Mr. Remington 
sued me for libel. That suit has been going through the motions of a 
libel suit. There was a pretrial hearing last September. The end of 
January I spoke to Mr. Spivak, and he said under no circumstances 
would it be settled. 

Mr. Wood. Who is Spivak? 

Miss Bentley. One of the two owners of Meet the Press. That is 
the production on which the libel occurred. 

Mr. Wood. Was he a party to the suit ? 

Miss Bentley. No. Mr. Remington sued myself, NBC, and Gen- 
eral Foods Corp., the sponsor of Mr. Spivak's program. Mr. Spivak 
said he was willing to fight to the end, and I said I was, too, even if 
it meant giving up my job. 

My attorney said the suit would come up right away, and I couldn't 
teach in Chicago and fight a lawsuit in New York. I asked Mun- 
delein to release me from my contract, and they reluctantly agreed that 
since such was the case I would be released. 

I have a letter from my lawyer explaining that neither of us were 
parties to the settlement. After I severed my connection with the 
college I waited 2 weeks until they got a successor. Later I heard 
that the whole thing had been settled by Coudert Bros., attorneys for 
the Massachusetts Bonding & Insurance Co., the libel insurance car- 
rier for both National Broadcasting Corp. and General Foods Corp. 

My attorney w^as against the settlement. I w\as against it. The 
letter from my lawyer will show it was done on the basis of very prac- 
tical economic reasons. I understand Mr. Spivak objected violently,, 
but it is like automobile insurance, I guess, and once you are insured 
you can't step in and say how a claim should be disposed of. 

I have the letter from Mr. Godfrey P. Schmidt, my lawyer. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any objection to receiving the letter as a part 
of the record ? 

Mr. Kearney. I think the letter should be admitted at this time. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. I desire to offer the letter in evidence as a part of 
the record, with the suggestion that it be copied and the original letter 
returned to Miss Bentley. 

Mr. AVooD. Without objection, let that be done. Would jou like 
to hear it read ? 

Mr. Kearney. I would like to hear it. 

Miss Bentley. It is addressed to me by my attorney, Godfrey P. 
Schmidt. 

Mr. Wood. "Wliere is he located ? 

Miss BENTT.EY. 12 East Forty-first Street, New York 17, N. Y. 

Mr. Tavenner. And what is the date of the letter? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1851 

Miss Bentley. That was dated yesterday, May 5. 
Mr. Wood. Very well. 
Miss Bentley (reading) : 

Dear Miss BENn.KY: You will recall that on March 1, 1950, the Times (that 
is the New York Times) carried an article which seemed to suggest, by in 
direction, that settlement of your case had been made upon the basis of some 
sort of private retraction. At the time, I wrote to the city editor of the New 
York Times a letter, copy of which is herewith enclosed for your files. 

In that connection, you asked me to explain how it could come about that the 
above-titled action could be settled without our consent, and indeed against 
our wishes. 

The parties defendant in Remington's libel action included, as you know, not 
only yourself but also the National Broadcasting Corp. and General Foods Corp. 
Both of these codefendants were protected by a libel insurance policy issued 
by the Massachusetts Bonding & Insurance Co. whose attorneys are Coudert 
Bros., for whom Mr. Walter Barry acted. 

Coudert Bros., by the way, are in New York City. (Continuing 
reading:) 

As you well know, no insurance carrier insured you against liability for 
libel. That is why I represented you as your attorney. Truth is a defense 
in a libel action ; and my own investigation of your account convinces me that 
you have been telling the truth and that we would have had a good defense 
against Remington's libel complaint. 

When I first came into the case, certain motions addres.sed to the complaint 
were pending before the District Court of the United States for the Southern 
District of New York. These applications had been instituted by Coudert Bros. 

I might explain here that Mr. Schmidt was not my original attor- 
ney. I had another one who had to give the case up because he ac- 
cepted a position with the United States Government and was not 
able to carry on legal practice. After a few months I found another 
attorney, Mr. Schmidt. 

Mr. Wood. Back to the letter now. 

Miss Bentley (continuing reading) : 

Their purpose was to dismiss the complaint for certain technical reasons. 
Eventually Judge Congers denied these applications. 

Up to that time (and indeed to date) no answer was filed by any defendant in 
this action. Coudert Bros, had repeatedly requested and obtained stipulations 
adjourning the time to answer. 

Meanwhile, the attorneys for Mr. Remington made overtures to examine you 
before trial. You will recall that I consented to this examination and that on 
two different occasions you were, in fact, examined by Mr. Remington's attor- 
neys. Although the latter had promised to submit to us stenographic minutes of 
these examinations, this promise was not fulfilled. 

Some time prior to your examination before trial, I had discussed with Mr. 
Barry the possibility of investigating certain leads provided by the inconsistent 
testimony of Mr. Remington before a congressional committee. Also, I sent my 
associate, Mr. Egan, to Tennessee to consult certain persons who asserted that 
they had evidence of Mr. Remington's membership in the Communist Party 
at one time. I was particularly pleased with the results of Mr. Egan's investi- 
gation. I felt sure Mr. Barry, too, was pleased. 

Some weeks afterward, however, Mr. Barr.v, for the first time, suggested 
that the insurance carrier he represented seemed to think that a settlement of 
the case would be advisable if it could be accomplished by a nominal payment. 
I protested volubly. I know that Mr. Larry Spivak wrote a long and vehement 
letter to one of the officials of the Massacliusetts Bonding & Insurance Co. 
begging them not to settle but to force Remington to trial. 

I told both Mr. Spivak and Mr. Barry that vmder no circumstances would I 
participate in any negotiations for a settlement on your behalf. Indeed, I em- 
phasized that you would issue no retraction in the event of a settlement nego- 
tiated by Coudert Bros, and Mr. Remington's attorneys. All along I have had 
complete confidence that if the matter were put to trial you would be vindicated. 



1852 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATE'S GOVERNMENT 

I was never infoi-mecl as to the terms of the proposed settlement nor of the dates 
of settlement negotiations. 

When, in the end, Mr. Barry telephoned me and told me he thought the mat- 
ter would be settled, I told him that I could not, of course, control him or his 
client but that we would not participate in any settlement. 

On February 17, 1900, I received from Coudert Bros, a letter advising me that 
settlement had been arranged. I am enclosing herewith a copy of this letter. 

Some days later, on February 27, 1950, I received from Mr. Barry a copy of a 
letter he had addressed to the Massachusetts Bonding and Insurance Co. For 
your information I am enclosing copy of this letter, too. With it came a photo- 
static copy of a release signed by William W. Remington on February 10, 1950, in 
favor of yourself, the National Broadcasting Corp., General Foods Corp., 
Lawrence W. Spivak, Martha Roundtree, and Press Products, Inc. I do not even 
know who some of the released persons and organizations are. 

Thus without any payment made by you to him, Mr. Remington released you. 
He must have had his doubts about the advisability of continuing the actions 
against you alone. 

Mr. "Wood. Have you, up to this moment, had any information as to 
the terms of this settlement ? 

Miss Bentley, No, and neither has Mr. Schmidt, from what he told 
me yesterday afternoon. 

Mr. Wood. That is your attorney ? 

Miss Bentley. Yes. I don't know how much money was involved. 

]\Ir. Wood. Do you know how much money was paid ? 

Miss Bentley. No. 

Mr. Wood. Have you paid any part of it? 

Miss Bentley. Mercy, no. In the first place, I don't have it ; and in 
the second place, if I had it I would not pay it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the attorneys for National Broadcasting Corp. 
and General Foods Corp., or any other person associated with those 
two organizations, in connection with this libel suit, attempt to obtain 
any leads from you and investigate those leads before they made this 
settlement ? 

Miss Bentley. I remember Mr. Barry, who represented Coudert 
Bros., talking it over with Mr. Schmidt and myself, and I had given 
Mr. Schmidt what information I had, and I believe he said at the 
time — I think this was back in September of last year — that he would 
attempt to develop some of these, but I was in Chicago from then on 
and therefore I don't know too much about it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Miss Bentley, while this suit was pending, and up 
until the present time, did you turn over any leads for investigation, 
or any investigative leads, to this committee or any members of its 
staff? 

Miss Bentley. I don't believe so. I don't believe this committee 
asked me for them. As I recall it, when I testified here in August 1948 
the Senate was investigating Mr. Remington, and wasn't it decided 
that in view of that this committee would not go into it? I don't 
believe you asked me for them. I don't think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. You referred to the fact that you were examined 
in a proceeding in the Federal court on two different occasions, that 
you were questioned ? 

Miss Bentley. I am not a lawyer. It was not in a Federal court. 
It was in private law offices. In the morning I don't know whose office 
it was, but the afternoon session was held in the office of 

Mr. Tavenner. I was referring to the proceeding that was pending 
in the Federal court. I didn't mean you were actually in the Federal 
court when you were questioned. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1853 

Miss Bentley. I wasn't questioned on that. As I understand, it 
was a routine motion to dismiss on the ground it was not libelous. I 
am not a lawyer. The first motion that was put before the court is 
what I understand is routinely done in libel cases, that you make a mo- 
tion to dismiss on the ground it is not libelous. When Judge Congers 
ruled against that motion, then a pretrial hearing was held. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is what I am referring to. 

Miss Bentley. It was held in two private law offices. 

Mr. Tavenner. What attorneys represented Mr. Remington in ques- 
tioning you ? 

Miss Bentley. In the morning session we had Mr. Rauh. as I recall, 
and Mr. Green. The afternoon session was held in the office of Allen 
Hays, who, I understand, is a brother or cousin of Arthur Garfield 
Hays, and Mr. Hays was present with Mr. Rauh and Mr. Green and 
occasionally asked questions of me. I got the impression from what 
Mr. Barry said that Mr. Garfield was interested in the case. Anyhow, 
he asked some questions. 

Mr. Kearney. Can you tell counsel for the committee whether 
Arthur Garfield Hays was one of the attorneys of record in this case? 

Miss Bentley. I am sorry. I wouldn't know. I am sure my lawyer 
would know. 

Mr. Kearney. He did ask you some questions ? 

Miss Bentley. Yes, he did. My lawyers were sitting on one side of 
the table with me, Mr. Barry representing Coudert Bros, and Mr. 
Schmidt myself, and Mr. Hays was sitting behind Mr. Green and Mr. 
Rauh and asking questions occasionally. 

Mr. Ke.\rney. The attorneys you just mentioned were Remington's 
attorneys ? 

Miss Bentley. Rauh and Green, yes. I understood Green was the 
New York attorney and Rauh the Washington attorney. Mr. Hays 
was giving them suggestions and asking questions occasionally. 

Mr. Kearney. Giving suggestions to Remington's attorneys? 

Miss Bentley. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Joseph North ? 

Miss Bentley. Not personally ; no. I knew of his activities through 
Mr. Golos. He was one of the editors of the New Masses, and in ad- 
dition was a lookout man for Russian intelligence. By lookout I 
mean he was always on the lookout for good Communists who could 
be used on Russian intelligence work. That is why he was in touch 
with Mr. Golos, who was a Russian intelligence agent. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did I understand you to say Mr. Golos was a rep- 
resentative of the Russian intelligence agency? 

Miss Bentley. Yes. Perhaps I had better give a little background 
on that. The Russian intelligence in this country operates out of the 
Embassy, and when there were consulates it also operated out of the 
consulates, under the general siipervision of what was the old OGPU. 
There was a foreign desk of OGPU in Moscow that supervised these 
activities. Mr. Golos was head of one of the branches of Russian 
intelligence, and was my superior. 

Russian intelligence made it a point to look for good espionage peo- 
ple. That means that they were very much interested in this Gov- 
ernment, and that meant also they could not use their own nationals, 

67052 — 50— pt. 1 11 



1854 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

because yon can't put a Russian national in a sensitive job in tlie Gov- 
ernment in this country. Therefore they liad to <>:et Americans. They 
knew if they bought a man somebody else could outbny them, but 
they knew if they could get an ideologist they could use him better 
than they could an adventurer. 

The type of American they wanted was a person who absolutely 
impeccable. They Avanted a person whose background was so sound 
from every point of view, morally and every other way, that nobody 
would ever suspect him of being a spy ; the type of jierson who any 
day could get a recommendation from his Sunday school teacher or 
college professor or, if it was a woman, from her Girl Scout leader. 

Every person they picked uj) came from the Communist Party via 
these lookouts. Joe North was one; Grace Granicli was one; Inter- 
continent News was another lookout; the American League Against 
War and Fascism was another; peoi)le like Earl Browder, and so on. 

Nevertheless, what you had to work on was whether or not these 
people, in addition to being highly respectable, were good Commu- 
nists. Therefore, their dossiers were checked over and over again 
before they were taken. That was easy in the case of Mr. Golos, be- 
cause he was one of the three men on the disci])line committee, which 
keeps dossiers on every single Connuunist in this country, and Com- 
munists every 6 months have to turn in information on themselves 
which is checked and rechecked. So jSIr. Golos checked and rechecked 
every dossier before even considering a person for espionage work. 

Mr. Kearney. Where were these files kept? 

Miss Bentley. Originally they were ke})t around headquarters. 
Afterward they were transferred to an individual's house. 

Mr. Kearney. Did the Communist Party have open offices? 

Miss Bentley. They had open offices in tlie midthirties. After that 
the files were transferred to the house of an individual on the central 
connnittee. 

In other words, what we were doing was not what you ordinarily 
think of as Comnuuiist Party work, that is, waving flags and spread- 
ing propaganda. It was definitely Russian intelligence work. I was 
a member of one branch of Russian intelligence, and Mr. Golos was 
my superior. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know anything about the contact between 
Mr. Golos and Mr. Josei)h North relating to Mr. Remington ( 

Miss Bentley. Very definitely. At the time that I met Mr. Reming- 
ton, which must have been early 1942, I was already in contact with 
other Connnunists who were ]:)hinted in the American Government to 
get information for Soviet intelligence. Mr. Golos at that time had a 
bad heart and Avas turning over more and more of these people to me. 
He came to me and said : "We have one more for Washington." He 
told me all about Mr. Remington. He said: "He has been in tlie 
party quite some years, and I have checked him and he is O. K. He 
M'as referred to me by Joe North, and he is O. K. In addition to that, 
he is a highly respectable person." 

Mr. Velde. Let's fix the date. 

Miss Bentley. It might have been January or February of 1042, 
but it was early in 1942. 

Mr. Velde. And where was the conversation? 

Miss Bentley. In Mr. Golos' office in World Tourists, Inc.. at 112o 
Broadway. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1855 

Mr. Tavenner. As a result of this information, what action was 
taken? 

Miss Bentlet. Mr. Golos told nie that since I was izomg to \\ asli- 
ington anyway to pick up information, I would just add Mr. Keniing- 
ton to the agents 1 was to take over. He said he had already had a 
meeting with him, and he was told he had to go underground. Going 
underground is practically synonymous with joining Russian intelli- 
gence. The person may not know* that, but that is what happens. He 
cuts off every connection with open Communist groups. He is com- 
pletely cut off because he becomes an espionage agent. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet Remington with Golos in New York 
before meeting him in Washington ? 

Miss Bentley. I most certainly did. Mr. Golos told me that the 
Remingtons were up in New York and that we would meet them for 
dinner. That was at a Schratits about Thirty-first Street around the 
corner from where the New JSIasses had oillces. Mr. Golos said he had 
to give instructions to Bill, and he didn't want Mrs. Remington to 
listen to it, because the policy of Russian intelligence was that no 
matter how much you trusted people, you didn't bring in other people 
if you could avoid it. Therefore, he wanted me to talk to Mrs. Reming- 
ton so she wouldn't hear what he was saying to Bill. 

At that time it was arranged that when I went to Washington I 
would call him and go over things with him. Because of a number of 
circumstances, I didn't call him for possibly a month or two. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us where you first met Remington in Wash- 
ington. 

Miss Benteey. I have been trying to think where that was, and 
I can't remember. I think it was possibly at Whelan's Drug Store 
across from the Willard. I know I did meet there, but I can't re- 
member if the first meeting was there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us just how the meeting was arranged and 
wliat took place. 

Miss Bentlet. In Bill's case — we had different set-ups, you see. 
When a person was in a very sensitive spot we didn't phone him at his 
office. Bill was one of our least important people, actually. He was 
not like people in OSS and Air Corps. Therefore, it was safe to call 
him at home or at his office. 

It was arranged at our first meeting that he would bring the in- 
formation Mr. Golos had asked for, and I was to bring him Communist 
literature when it came out and collect his dues and that sort of thing. 

Mr. Velde. The meeting you are talking about is the first meeting 
you had with Remington in Washington, D. C. ? 

Miss Bentley. I have had so many meetings with so many people 
I cannot remember precisely where the first meeting was. They were 
all of the same tenor, and I did meet him at that particular spot. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever meet him at his office ? 

Miss Bentley. Mercy, no. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why not ? 

Miss Bentley. The one thing we didn't want was for me to have 
any contact with him openly. That is why he always had to meet me 
on park benches, in drug stores, at street corners, and so on. The 
nearest I went to his office was Fourth and Constitution. I don't know 
to this day where his office was located, but I think it was around the 
corner trom there. 



1856 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell us the location of other places where 
you met him? 

Miss Bentley. Yes. For a long period I met him at the drug store 
opposite the Willard. Then we took to meeting at the corner of 
Pennsylvania and Fourth, not in front of the Museum, but on the 
corner by the tennis courts; I think that is the southeast corner. I 
would sometimes meet him in front of the tennis courts, and some- 
times at Constittuion and Fourth, and sometimes in front of the 
Mellon Art Gallery. Those are the most frequent places I met him. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many times do you consider that you met him 
in this manner? 

Miss Bentley. I would say between 10 and 20, rouglily ; probably 
nearer 15 than anything else. I have been trying to figure it out since. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you be more specific as to the date when you 
met him the first time in Washington ? 

Miss Bentley. I am afraid I can't. The reason is, he was a minor 
figure and I didn't pay as much attention to him as I did to some of 
my more important ones. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you be specific as to the last time that you met 
him in Washington ? 

Miss Bentley. Yes. The last time, I remember very definitely, 
was in front of the Mellon Art Gallery. We went inside and sat in 
that semicircle where there is a bench and fountain. We sat there and 
talked. 

Mv. Tavenner. Can you be more specific as to the date ? 

Miss Bentley, No, except that it was in the spring of 1944, and I 
believe about a month after that he went in the Navy. I know he told 
me he had been worrying for some months that he would be drafted 
into the Navy, in spite of the fact he had a wife. He didn't like the 
prospect. He said he was going to pull strings and see if he could 
get a commission in the Navy. 

The next time I came to Washington I could not reach him at his 
office or at his home, and another Soviet agent to whom he had intro- 
duced me told me Bill had gone into the Navy. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned that Remington introduced you to 
another person ? 

Miss Bentley. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. As another Soviet agent ? 

Miss Bentley. He became one. He was a young man, [name de- 
leted], wlio came from Brooklyn. My impression is that his wife 
and Remington's wife had known each other in school. Both Mr. 
and Mrs. [name deleted] were Communists. She had been originally 
in YCL and then transferred to the party. I think the same is true 
of him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know where the wives of [name deleted] 
and Remington had attended school ? 

Miss Bentley. No. This was roughly 6 months after I met Bill. 
He said he had an okl friend named [name deleted], and he said: 
"I will vouch for him and I think you should take him over. He is 
here without any unit. He is running loose." Golos checked and 
found [name deleted] was genuine. He was in the press section of 
CIAA; that is Coordinator of Inter- American Affairs, I believe. It 
was run by Mr. Rockefeller. He did have some material; I don't 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1857 

know that it was secret or confidential, but it was kept from the 
general ])ublic, and we decided to take him on. 

The Russian intelligence is very thorough. They won't take just 
one man's report. They check one against the other. So it was 
arranged that [name deleted] would come to New York and meet me 
in front of the Forty-second Street entrance to the New York Public 
Library, and I remember very distinctly it was in the fall of that 
year. I remember it distinctly because we had an elaborate program 
under which he was to wear a brown suit, and it rained cats and dogs 
and he had a slicker on and I couldn't see the brown suit under the 
slicker. 

That was the first time I met [name deleted] . Then Mr. Remington, 
[name deleted], and I used to meet for lunch in a tiny restaurant two 
or three doors down the street from that Whelan's drug store across 
from the Willard. I don't think it exists any more. It was a res- 
taurant that had an upstairs and downstairs, and you could eat real 
cheap, so for a while the three of us ate there together. 

Then Mr. Golos decided that w\as poor tactics; that it was better 
to meet them separately. So for a while I would meet [name deleted] 
there, and I shifted to Fourth and Constitution to meet Mr. Reming- 
ton. What I know about Mr. Remington subsequent to his going in 
the Navy came from [name deleted], because I lost contact with Mr. 
Remington completely at that time. 

Mr. Kearney. I understood you to say that one of your missions 
was to collect dues from members of the Communist Party? 

Miss Bentley. Communist Party dues, yes. 

Mr, Kearney. Did you ever collect dues from Remington ? 

Miss Bentley. Under great reluctance. He always claimed he was 
hard up. 

Mr. Kearney. How much dues did you collect from him ? 

Miss Bentley. I don't know. They changed our scale of dues 
every 6 months. I brought it back to Mr. Golos and let him check 
it against the schedule. 

Mr. Kearney. In the collection of those dues, did you ever issue 
party cards ? 

Miss Bentley. No. We didn't issue party cards. We had little 
white forms about like this (indicating). That is about 1 by II/2, 
I guess, or a little larger. They were routine forms you could fill in. 

Mr. Kearney. Did the receipts have the name of the Communist 
Party on them ? 

Miss Bentley. No. They were the kind of receipts anybody could 
have bought anyplace. 

Mr. Kearney. Ordinary blank receipts ? 

Miss Bentley. Ordinary blank receipts. They were never made 
out in the name of the agent. They simply said, "Received so much 
from a friend," and the initials of the man receiving it. That was all. 

Mr. Kearney. Can you tell the committee approximately how many 
times you collected dues from Remington ? 

Miss Bentlp:y. No, I can't. It was less times than I met him, because 
he let them pile up. 

Mr. Ke^vrney. How often does the Communist Party collect dues? 

Miss Bentley. Normally every week, but I came down only about 
every 2 weeks. 



1858 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Kearney, Communist Party members pay every week ? 

Miss Bentley. They are supposed to. 

Mr. Kearney. But you did collect Communist Party dues from 
Remington on several occasions ? 

Miss Bentley. Six or seven occasions. I don't remember exactly. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you were introduced to Mr. Remington in 
the first instance, what was the name used by you and by Mr. Golos ? 

Miss Bentley. Mr. Golos called himself John, and I called myself 
Helen. With one or two exceptions those are the names we always 
used in the Russian intelligence. One of the principles of Russian 
intelligence is that each person never knows anything about his 
superior except his first name. It was unusual in my case about Mr. 
Golos. You never knew their last names, their real names. You 
never knew wliere they lived or worked or one stitch of information 
about them. You never used last names unless somebody came by 
that you knew, and to make it appear casual you invented a last name. 
When I called a man's office and his secretary answered, I would think 
of some last name and add it on so that she wouldn't think a girl named 
Helen was calling and that he was two-timing his wife. 

Mr. Kearnp:y. Did I understand you to say you never called Mr. 
Remington at his office? 

Miss Bentley. Yes. I called him at his office several times. I also 
called him at his home. 

Mr. Veij)e. You called him by telephone ? 

Miss Bentley. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You testified you had never appeared in person at 
his office? 

Miss Bentley. That is right, but I telephoned several times at his 
office and also at his home. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you use the last name "Johnson" at any time 
-with Mr. Remington? 

Miss Bentley. Again I couldn't be sure that that wasn't one of the 
names I hitched on to my name when I called him. I used Jones, 
Brown, and Smith. I don't remember using Johnson, but I might 
have used it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what last name Golos gave for you, 
if he gave any, at the time you were introduced to Remington? 

J\Iiss Bentley. He didn't give any. He said either, "Helen, this is 
Bill Remington," or "Bill Remington, this is Helen." That is stand- 
ard Communist procedure. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee more of the character 
of these conferences which you held with Remington in restaurants, 
drug stores, street corners, museums, and so forth ? 

Miss Bentley. Also park benches in the dead of winter. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the character of the business conducted 
there ? 

Miss Bentley. In general they were very brief, because Bill was 
one of the people I saw during working hours. That means he would 
dash out during working hours or during a very short lunch period. 
Other people I met in the evenings, but that was not true of Bill. 
He would bring me information and I would ask all sorts of ques- 
tions about what type of material was coming over his desk. A lot 
of the information he brought it was not his job to handle, but it went 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1859 

via liis desk or he would ^et it from somebody else's desk. I would 
tell Mr. Golos what it was, and Mr. Golos would tell me to go back 
and tell Bill whether or not it was useful. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee as accurately as you 
can the type of information obtained from Mr. Remington, from the 
vei*y beginning? 

Miss Bentley. I w^ould say the most valuable information we got 
was on War Production Board statistics on airplanes and so on. It 
was valuable because, although it was duplicated by a number of other 
people we had, nevertheless, Russian intelligence people don't trust 
each other, and he was an added check. 

The second most valuable data was the fact we were very much 
interested in WPB because it was the agency that was giving alloca- 
tions to Russia, and we were interested in the personal opinions of 
people like Mr. Batt, and we were interested in any personal feuds, 
because that was being used by Soviet agents; were these people 
friendly, and so on. That, I would say, was the most vahiable in- 
formation he gave us. 

He also gave us the by-now famous formula of making synthetic 
rubber out of garbage. I know the Russians were tremendously inter- 
ested in getting such a process. Mr. Golos told me they were so hard 
])ressed by the war that they were needing substitutes, for things they 
could not get. Mr. Remington gave me that along with the rest of the 
little scraps of paper. He would bring out some documents, but that 
was rare. He would usually bring down 3 by 3 scraps of paper on 
which he had jotted down figures and little notes. When discussing 
personalities he would give it to me and I would memorize it and then 
go to the nearest place and write it down in shorthand, but most of 
it was brought on small scraps of paper. 

I am convinced Bill did not like what he was doing. At the be- 
ginning he was all right, but whether he finally learned he was at- 
tached to Russian intelligence, I don't know. He thought the informa- 
tion was going to the American Communist Party, and it might have 
baffled him why the American Conmuuiist Party wanted that sort of 
information. 

Increasingly he was nervous and didn't want to come out. He would 
say he had a conference, or he couldn't be reached. Finally he came 
to me, I think maybe 6 months before I last saw him, and told me that 
he had been moved to a division where they reviewed applications 
for any type of material, let's say material for typewriters or for brass 
bolts, and that he was on the reviewing board. He sounded rather 
gleeful. 

I took that back to Golos, and he said: "That is no earthly use to 
us at all. I don't know what we will do with Bill. Let's coddle him 
along." 

Contrary to popular belief, the Russian intelligence don't always 
crack the whip over people. They coax and cajole, or give them what 
they call the "candy and whip" treatment, which means you alternately 
are nice to them and then crack the whip. It began to get increas- 
ingly hopeless, so when he announced that he hoped to go into the 
Navy it wasn't too great a loss to us, because we had come to the con- 
clusion that he was a hard man to deal with. That is my impression 
of him, I don't know if it was because he was disillusioned with com- 



1860 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

munism, but he didn't like it. Of the two, his wife was a much better 
Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you know his wife was a Communist ? 

Miss Bentley. Because I was told that by Mr. Golos before I met 
the two Remingtons. I saw her, I think, roughly, four times, at 
most. It was during gas rationing, and it was hard for her to get in. 
They had a child. But I brought her Commurtist Party literature. 
I remember one time she said she didn't like what I brought, why 
didn't I bring her some decent stuff. But her comprehension and feel- 
ing for connnunism was much better than his. She was a much better 
developed Communist than he was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you collect any Communist Party dues from 
her? 

Miss Bentley. Yes. He handed hers in with his. I remember hers 
distinctly because she fell in the unemployed housewife category, 
which started at 10 cents a week and then got to be a dollar a month. 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if it would be permissible 
for me to ask Miss Bentley at the present time if she would describe 
to the committee the appearance of Mr. Remington. 

Miss Bentley. I am not very good at descriptions, and haven't 
seen him since the summer of 1948. Quite tall, I would say, well over 
6 feet; sort of sandy-haired, that straight hair that doesn't stay in 
place; long and lanky; a rather intent-looking young man. I don't 
know what else to add to that description. 

Mr. Kearney. Was he blond or brunet ? 

Miss Bentley. Definitely on tiie blond side. 

Mr. Kearney. What would you say concerning the features of his 
face ? 

Miss Bentley. I would say his eyes were blue or green. I am just 
not good at describing people. 

Mr. Kearney. Round-faced? 

Miss Bentley. No, it was more angular than round. I met him at 
the Senate hearing before I testified there. That is the last time I 
saw him. He identified me. too, because he came up and said "hello" 
and shook hand with me and admitted he knew me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were you when Mr. Remington identified 
you and came up and shook hands with you ? 

Miss Bentley, I had been called in to testify that morning, and 
had just walked into the anteroom just outside Mr. Rogers' office, and 
suddenly, when I was halfway in, Bill looked over toward me. I 
didn't know how to behave, but he immediately rushed over and took 
hold of my hands and said he was glad to see me, I was doing a mag- 
nificient job. And then he said something that confused me. He said 
his story would be a little different from mine. Then Mr. Rogers 
came out and tried to separate us. That was the last time I saw him. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the course of his testimony before the Sen- 
ate committee, were you asked to identify him ? 

Miss Benti.ey. I was not present during any of his testimony. I 
don't know if he was present during my testimony. Oh, yes, it seems 
to me I recall that one of the Senators asked me during .the course of 
my testimony if I had recognized the young man who had shaken 
hands with rne outside of Mr. Rogers' office. I think it was brought 
out somehow. But we were not confronted, or whatever the word is 
for it. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1861 

Mr. Tavenner. Going back again to the conferences that you held 
with Remington at the various places that you named, do you recall 
any documents of any character which he turned over to you ^ 

Miss Bentlet. I recall there were some, and I believe they were sta- 
tistics on airplane production, but I couldn't be sure with the amount 
of material I was handling then. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not he turned over to you 
information regarding any secret processes other than the one you 
liave testified to? 

Miss Bentley. No, I don't believe there were any other secret 
processes involved or I would have remembered it. It was largely 
aircraft-production data, the same type of thing we were getting from 
other sources. As I said, we always double checked. 

Mr. Kearney. Are any of those other sources, as far as you know, 
still in Government? 

Miss Bentley. No. As far as I know Mr. Remington is the only 
one still connected in Government. I believe somebody in FBI told 
me they were all out except Mr. Remington. 

Mr. Velde. Did you always meet Mr. Remington alone, or w^as there 
anyone else j)resent ? 

Miss Bentley. During a period of months, 5 or 6 months, I met 
him with [name deleted], until Mr. Golos decided it was safer to meet 
them separately. The policy was, as far as possible, not to have two 
contacts know each other or be together, but there was a period when 
we were meeting at this double-decker restaurant just down the street 
from Whelan's, where I did meet the two of them together. [Name 
deleted] was in CI A A, and that wasn't too far away. 

Mr. Velde. Was any information ever exchanged at those meetings 
at which [name deleted] was present? 

Miss Bentley. Yes. 

Mr. Velde. On airplane production ? 

Miss Benti.ey. Yes; I think so. I am not sure. That is why Mr. 
Golos wanted me to meet them separately. No matter how much you 
trust a person, in intelligence work you never use extra people. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any documentary evidence of any char- 
acter regarding any information that Mr. Remington gave to you, or 
regarding his Communist Party membership? 

Miss Bentley. No. I wish I had documentary evidence. I can 
suggest one other person who knew him. Back in 1935 when I was 
connected with unit 1 of the Harlem section of the Communist Party — 
which was Columbia University, by the way — I signed the party cards. 
In the old days eacli party card was signed by two people. I signed 
as one. Incidentally, underground people never carried any identifica- 
tion whatsoever under any circumstances. Even people near to the 
top in the party in hard times like now wouldn't carry one around or 
have one issued. 

Mr. Kearney. Is the Communist Party issuing cards now ? 

Miss Bentley. I don't believe they issue them any more. I am a 
little out of date. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were talking about the cell or section at Colum- 
bia University. 

Miss Bentley. Yes. I at that time signed as one of the two people 
who signed the party cards. William Hinckley was for some time 



1862 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

executive secretary, which means the head, of the American Youth 
Cono-ress. His wife, Margaret Cummings Hinckley, was in units 
around Cohunbia University for some time. I signed Bill Hinckley's 
party card, and he immediately went underground. He was attached 
to Gilbert Green, who had been indicted. 

The Hinckleys, incidentally, were quite respectable-looking people. 
Mrs. Hinckley was one of the 400 of Boston, and so on. The Hinckleys, 
I understand, spent one or two nights at the White House. Tliey 
were friends of Mrs. Roosevelt, as I understand it. 

I lost track of the Hinckleys, but one day Remington brought them 
up and asked if I knew them, and said he was in a fraction with them 
in the American Youth Congress. A fi'action is a steering committee 
to see that the organization does the things they should. 

Mr. Velde. Do you know the name of the fraction ^ 

Miss Bentley. Fractions don't have names. They are just small 
groups. The members of that fraction might have belonged to dif- 
ferent cells, but they got together in the fraction to formulate policy. 
You might have a cell that was also a fraction, or you might have a 
fraction that was made up of people of different cells. 

Mr. Remington asked if I knew the Hinckleys, or rather it was 
the other way around. He mentioned he had been in the American 
Youth Congress and I asked if he knew Hinckley and he said very 
well, he had been in a fraction with him. I asked wdiat had happened 
to him, and Remington said he was in Virginia; that he had a post 
in the State Department at one time, but was kicked olit because he 
was slightly "Red." As is customary in the Communist Party when 
you haven't heard of a party member for a long time, I asked how 
Hinckley stood then, and Remington said : "I saw him very recently 
and he is still a very good Communist and so is his wife. That is why 
they have suffered so." 

I am bringing that up to show there are two other people who had 
known him. 

Mr. Kearney. Are the Hinckleys Communists now, do you know ? 

Miss Bentley. I don't know. 

Mr. Wood. We will recess for 1 hour. 

(Thereupon, at 12:30 p. m. a recess was taken until 1:30 p. m. 
of the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(The hearing was reconvened at 1:30 p. m., Messrs. Wood and 
Kearney being present.) 

Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order. You may proceed. 

TESTIMONY OP ELIZABETH T. BENTLEY— Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. Miss Bentley, did you ever receive from Mr. Rem- 
ington or from his wife a contribution to the joint anti-Fascist refugee 
committee? 

Miss Bentley. No, I did not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive any money from ISIr. Remington 
or his wife for any organization or for any purpose other than the 
payment of Communist Party dues? 

Miss Bentley. No. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1S63 

Mr. Tavennek. Did you ever ask Mr. Remington to make a con- 
tribution to any cause other than the payment of Communist Party 
 dues ? 

Miss Bentley. No. We never did that with anybody. Wliat we 
collected in the way of money from all our agents in Washington were 
solely Communist Party dues, nothing else, 

Mr. Tavenner. What disposition did you make of any of the data 
turned over to you, or any documents turned over to you, by Mr. 
Remington? 

Miss Bentley. During Mr. Golos' lifetime — which was up until 
the end of November 1943 — I turned them over to him and he in 
turn turned them over to his superior officer in Russian Intelligence. 
After Mr. Golos died I continued turning any material over to his 
successor, an individual known only as Bill. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Did you keep copies of any of your reports or any 
information turned over to Mr. Golos ? 

Miss Bentley. No, not for long. We made copies of some of 
that material to show to Earl Browder if it concerned a svibject he 
was interested in, but they were destroyed after Earl had looked at 
them, maybe a week or so later. 

Mr. Tavenner. We want to confine this inquiry to matters relating 
to Mr. Remington. Do you have any further information that would 
throw any light upon the question of the Communist Party mem- 
bership of ]\Ir. Remington ? 

Miss Benti.ey. No. There was never any question in my mind. 
Once he had been certified to me by Mr. Golos as being a Communist 
Party member, I took it for granted. This is part of the underground 
pattern. You are not introduced by documents. You are introduced 
by a person who is your superior. Also, in the way he talked to [name 
deleted] it was obvious they had both been Communists. 

Mr. Wood. Where is [name deleted] now? 

Miss Bentley. I don't know. The last I heard he was in Argentina 
representing an American publication down there. All I hear is 
very indirect. 

Mr. Wood. During any of the time that you were associated with 
Mr. Remington, having meetings with him or otherwise, did he ever 
discuss with vou his Communist activities while he was working for 
the Tennessee Valley Authority? 

Miss Bentley. No, he didn't mention it to me. The reason, I think, 
is because he had already mentioned that background to Mr. Golos. 
Where I took over fresh people myself, I took their biographies, but 
evidently Mr. Golos had done that with Remington before I was in- 
troduced to him, so I never did. I think the most he spoke of his past 
to me was his connection with the American Youth Congress and 
knowing the Hinckleys. 

Mr. Tavenner. What statement did he make to you regarding 
Hinckley? 

Miss Bentley. He said he had known Hinckley in the American 
Youth Congress, that they had been in a fraction together. Then I 
recall asking, as you always ask when you haven't seen a Communist 
for a long time, if Hinckley was still a good Communist, and Rem- 
ington said definitely, th.it he lived just across the river from him in 
Virginia some place, and he was sure he was still a good Communist. 



1864 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATE'S GOVERNMENT 

The only other liglit I have on Remington is that I recall at one 
stage — I don't recall when — he had neighbors who were either pro- 
Communists or Communists, and he wanted to get into an organiza- 
tion with them in Washington. He was tired of this undercover work. 
I had to restrain him forcibly from doinf^ it, I told him the work he 
was doing would prevent him from getting into any front organiza- 
tions or anything that was liberal, because that would destroy his 
usefulness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do yoa have any further information, other than 
what you have given us, regarding his wife's position as a Communist? 

Miss Bentley. No, except that I know she and [name deleted] had 
known each other when they were Communists. That was my un- 
derstanding. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was something told you by another person? 

Miss Bentt.ey. That was told me by [name deleted] [name 
deleted] wife. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all on this subject. 

Mr. Wood. Any questions, Mr. Kearney ? 

Mr. Kearney. No. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. Mr. Tavenner, do you have some questions 
to ask this witness on a subject other than is involved in this hearing? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, on an entirely separate and distinct matter. 
We would like to ask the witness questions which have no relation to 
the Remington matter. 

Mr. Wood. The hearing, as far as this matter is concerned, is closed. 

(Thereupon, at 1:40 p. m. on Saturday, May 6, 1950, the hearing 
was closed.) 



HEAKINGS REGAEDING COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED 
STATES GOVERNMENT— PART 1 



(Note. — The following testimony is being printed as a part of tliis volume 
with the permission of the Investigations Subcommittee of the Committee on 
Expenditures in the Executive Departments of the United States Senate.) 

FRIDAY, JULY 30, 1948 

United States Senate, 
Investigations Subcommittee, 
Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments, 

Washington^ D. G. 
executr'e session 

The subcommittee met at 10 : 10 a. m., pursuant to recess, in execu- 
tive session, in room 101, Senate Office Building, Senator Homer Fer- 
guson, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding. 

Present : Senator Homer Ferguson, Republican, Michigan ; Senator 
Edward J. Thye, Republican, Minnesota ; Senator Irving M. Ives, Re- 
publican, New York; Senator John L. McClellan, Democrat, Arkan- 
sas ; Senator Herbert R. O'Conor, Democrat, Maryland. 

Also present : William P. Rogers, chief counsel ; Jerome S. Aller- 
man, assistant counsel. 

Senator Ferguson. AVill you raise your right hand and be sworn, 
please? 

Do you solemnly swear in the matter now pending before this com- 
mittee you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Remington. I do, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM W. REMINGTON 

Senator Fj:rguson. Will you state your full name and your address ? 

Mr. Remington. William W. Remington, 1717 Riggs Place NW., 
Washington. 

Senator Ferguson. What is your business, Mr. Remington ; what is 
your position with the Government? 

Mr. Remington. Director of the Export Program Staff, Office of 
International Trade, Department of Commerce. 

Senator Ferguson. And you are also chairman of the so-called Ad 
Hoc Committee? 

Mr. Remington. I have been acting chairman of the Ad Hoc Sub- 
committee. 

Senator Ferguson. Wlien did you become acting chairman of that 
committee? 

Mr. Remington. A few days after I joined the Department of 
Commerce, which was, I believe, March 16 of this year. 

1865 



1866 COMMUXISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Senator Ferguson. And prior to that what was your position with 
the Government? 

]Mr. liE.MiNtJToN. I was a staff member at the Council of Economic 
Advisers. 

Senator Ferguson. And when did you take that job as a staff 
member ? 

Mr. Remington. Approximately the end of March 194:7. 

Senator P'erguson. You mean about December? 

Mr. Remington. Api)roximately the end of March of 1947. 

Senator Ferguson. Pardon me, I didn't get that. That was just 
about a year prior to that? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Will you tell us what your duties were as a staff 
member ? 

Mr. Remington. To collect economic statistics and write about them. 
The statistics were primarily concerned with the problems of Federal 
finances, State and local finances; and I was also supposed to spend 
most of my time on the question of stabilization measures to combat 
too much inflation or not enough. But actually I did very little of 
that, and spent most of my time on general problems of Government, 
the economic effects of Government activities. 

Senator Ferguson. Was your job there a policy matter? 

Mr. Remington. Oh, no. 

Senator Ferguson. You were not a member of the Board itself ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Senator Ferguson. You w^ere working on the staff? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. When the ERP was in, were you with that 
Board? 

Mr. Remington. I was Assistant Executive Secretary of the Harri- 
man committee, which was called the President's Committee on Foreign 
Aid. 

Senator Ferguson. You were not a member of that committee? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Senator Ferguson. You Avere the Executive 

Mr. Remington. Assistant Executive Secretary. 

Senator Ferguson. Was that part of the same job that you had? 

Mr. Remington. I was on loan from the Economic Council. 

Senator Ferguson. What period were you on loan there? 

Mr. Remington. I believe, sir, it was about August 1 to November 
15 of 1947, approximately. 

Senator Ferguson. Were there other people out of your department 
r»n loan ? 

Mr. Remington. No; not to the President's Committee on Foreign 
Aid. 

Senator Ferguson. How many people worked in tlie department 
where you worked, in the Executive Office? 

Mr. Remington. You mean the Council of Economic Advisers? 

Senator Ferguson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Remington. There is a professional staff of 12 or 15, I believe; 
])i'()bab]y 15, now. 

Senator Ferguson. Would you be classed on the professional staff? 

Mr. Remington. Oh, yes; anyone with a professional rating would 
be on the professional staff. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1867 

Senator FERorsoN. What is your civil-service ratino;? 

Mr. Remington. I believe that I don't have a ])rofessional ratin<^ 
now; I believe that I have a clerical, administrative, and fiscal rating, 
CAF rating, grade 15. 

Senator Ferguson. Now, when you said you do not have a profes- 
sional rating, what do you mean by that ^ 

Mr. Remington. The Government classifications for Government 
personnel are divided into several different groups, just for purposes of 
identification. There is the CAF classification of people; they are in 
administrative jobs and clerical jobs. And there is a professional 
group. 

Senator Ferguson. Had you ever had a professional group rating? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. I have had a rating of P-8, and CAF 15. 
One is the professional side and the other on is the administrative side. 

Mr. Rogers. AYhat is the salary of that rating, the one that you 
presently have? 

Mr. Remington. $9,975. 

Senator Ferguson. Is that with all of the percentages added to it, 
that is your actual salary, your take-home salary ? 

Mr. Remington. I believe it has been — that is salary before taxes. 
Since July 1, I have heard rumors of Federal })ay increases, but 
liaving been on leave and having been quite sick, I have not followed 
the details. 

Senator Ferguson. When did you go on leave ? 

Mr. Remington. I can answer it exactly by checking my sick leave 
«lip I have here. I believe that I went — that doesn't answer the ques- 
tion — approximately the end of June. I came down with a bad 
rase of chickenpox the day after I stopped working at the Department 
of Commerce, which was very much to the good of my staff that I 
was not there that next day. My last day of duty at the Department 
of Commerce was June 28. 

Senator Ferguson. That is June 28? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Will you tell us what you worked at prior to 
going, in March, down to the Council. 

Mr. Remington. Prior to going to the Council in March of 1947, I 
Avas Chief of the so-called Production Division of the Office of War 
Mobilization and Reconversion. The name '"Production Division" is 
something of a misnomer. I was concerned primarily with the rate of 
Federal construction. I had instructions from my boss to do what 
was possible to conserve on Federal expenditures. 

Senator McClellan. AVho was your boss ? 

Mr. Remington. The Dejiuty Director of the Office of War Mobili- 
zation and Reconversion. 

Senator McClellan. Who was he ? 

Mr. Remington. His name was Harold Stein. 

Senator McClellan. Is that under John Steelman ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator McClellan. Go ahead. 

Mr. Remington. I was also concerned with the housing program. 

Senator Ferguson. Will you tell us, now, how you were transferred 
from that job to your job in the Economic Council, whether it was on 
vour initiative or somebody else's, or who it was^ 



1868 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remington. In about December of 1946, all members, all staff 
members of the Office of War Mobilization and Reconversion were 
told that the organization was liquidating, and there would be reduc- 
tion in force, and it was suggested to everyone that we seek another 
job. I callecl up probably 20 or 30 of my friends in Washington, and 
very indirectly indicated my availability. I had several job offers, and 
1 decided to accept one with the Council of Economic Advisers. 

Senator Ferguson. Whom did you call there ? 

Mr. Remington. I don't believe that I called anyone there. I be- 
lieve that I had talked to just probably 20 people, and the word went 
around Washington very fast that I was available. 

Senator Ferguson. Who got in touch with you ? 

Mr. Remington. I believe it was Don Wallace, 

Senator Ferguson. Who is Don Wallace? 

Mr. Remington. He is a staff member, or he was a staff member, and 
he is now at Princeton as a faculty member. 

Senator Ferguson. He called you and asked you to come over? 

Mr. Remington. To be interviewed. 

Senator Ferguson. And who interviewed you ? 

Mr. Remington. I recall now. I saw him at the meeting of the 
economic association in Atlantic City, and I talked to him first about it 
there. And then he talked to me in Washington, and then several 
members of the staff talked to me. Gerhard Kolm called me, and Mr. 
Clark and Mr. Keyserling and Mr. Nourse called me, the other mem- 
bers of the Council. I happened to know personally I believe 90 
percent of the staff members of the Council before I went over there, 
practically all members of the staff. 

Senator Ferguson. Had you met the members of the Council them- 
selves ? 

Mr. Remington. I knew none of them, except I had met Mr. Key- 
serling, I thought I knew him, but when I walked into his office he 
apparently thought that we had never met, so I think that I could say 
that none of the Council members knew me; but 90 ])ercent of the 
staff members knew me, and some of them knew me well, profession- 
ally. 

Senator Ferguson. Now, when you go with the ERP Board, how do 
you get there ? 

Mr. Rogers. Could I ask a question there ? 

At the time that you got the job that you have just described, did 
you then know there was some question about your loyalty which had 
been raised by the Department of Justice? 

Mr. Remington. I believe I did. I can't recall exactly when the 
FBI interviewed me the first time about this matter, but I have a very 
distinct impression that I turned down the job over at the Atomic 
Energy Commission before I went to the Council, a week or two 
before, rather than 

Mr. Rogers. Would you explain the circumstances of that offer, and 
what you did in connection with it? 

Senator Ferguson. About what month was that? 

Mr. Remington. In about February of 1947 I received a call from 
one of the personnel people down at the Atomic Energy Commission. 
He- 

Senator Ferguson. That is w^hen you were really looking for an- 
other job ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1869 

Mr. Remington. Yes. And the word head gotten around Wash- 
ington that I was available, and I am rather well known among eco- 
nomists, among young economists, and so I received a call. 

I went down there and I talked with them, and in many respects it 
was a job which attracted me more than any job I have ever been 
offered, but I turned it down because the FBI had been talking with 
me, and I realized there was a question about my loyalty. I was 
recommended for that job, I subsequently found out, by Arthur Mac- 
Mahon, with the President's Loyalty Board, and he happens to know 
my problems with my mother-in-law, and my relatives, as well as 
anybody. 

Senator Ferguson. You mean he knew that at the time that he had 
recommended you ? 

Mr. Remington. He did not know that there was a Miss Bentley, 
but he knew that my mother-in-law was a Communist, and he knew 
that I had visited my mother-in-law a great deal, and 

Senator Ferguson. Could we suspend for just a moment, now, 
please. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Senator Thye. Where did your mother-in-law reside? 

Mr. Remington. In Westchester County, Croton-on-Hudson, N. Y. 

Senator Thye. What does your father-in-law do ? 

Mr. Remington. I am kind of at a loss to answer that question, sir. 
I have never met my father-in-law, and 

Senator Thye. Were they separated before your marriage to their 
daughter? 

Mr. Remington. My mother-in-law left my wife's father, her first 
husband, when my wife was about 4 or 5 years old. 

Senator Thye. What is the nationality of your mother-in-law ? 

Mr. Remington. American. 

Senator Thye. I beg pardon ? 

Mr. Remington. American, United States. 

Senator Thye. Yes; I know; but that, of course, could be just one 
generation; but previous to that? 

Mr. Remington. Her father, I believe, was born in this country, and 
I am not sure of that. His parents came from Germany, and he may 
have been born in Germany, but I don't think so. I think that he was 
born here. Her mother was born in this country, and she is a second- 
or third-generation American, and on her mother's side a fourth- or 
fifth-generation American. 

I say my mother-in-law is a Communist. I can state quite definitely 
that she was not a Communist when I first met the daughter and 
became engaged to the daughter; she was anti-Communist at that 
time ; and I believe that Arthur MacMahon can testify to that. 

Senator Thye. What do you think influenced her to become a 
Communist ? 

Mr. Remington. I think the factor was (a) loneliness and (h) a 
young man in the house who was a Communist and who introduced 
her to a lot of his friends and brought them to live near her, and so on. 

Senator Thye. And then the mother's influence on the daughter 
brought about her convictions of the communistic philosophy? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Thye. Are you living with your wife now ? 

67052 — 50 — pt. I 12 



1870 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Eemington. Xo, sir. 

Senator Thye. How lon<r have you been separated ? 

Mr. Ke:\[ixgton. I g-ave up, sir, a year and a lialf ago ; over a year 
and a half ago. 

Senator Thye. Are there any c'hil(h'en? 

Mr. RE]\riNGT0N. Two chikh^en. 

Senator Tiiye. Who has the chihlren ? 

iNIr. Remixoton. My wife has them. I have no arrangements to 
take care of them. She has them, and she feeds them and clothes 
them; and so a court, j)articularly a Virginia court, would award 
them to her, and I have to stand aside and see those children brought 
up in a creed that I hate more than I hate anything in the world. 

Senator Thye. Do you give aid to their support? 

Mr. 1ve:\itxotox. I sup})ort tliem u|) until now. and I don't know 
whether I will be able to or not in the future. 

You were asking me about Arthur MacMahon. He knows my 
mother-in-law well, and he took the lead in forcing her out of a 
position she held as director of the school in Croton after she became 
a ( onnnunist, and he knows that she was not a Commimist when I 
first met the family and became engaged to the daughter, and he 
knows when she became a Communist subsequently, and he knows me 
and he knew me back several years ago very well, and we kept in touch 
with each other since somewhat, and he reconnnended me to the 
Atomic Energy Commission because he had full confidence in me. 
He did not know about Miss Bentley, and I believe 

Senator Ferguson. Wlien you went to the FBI who did you see 
there about that atomic-energy matter? 

Mr. Remington. I was interviewed by three gentleman. I recall 
the name of only one, Mr. Cornelson, and I 

Senator Ferguson. You were asking advice there, really, as to 
whether or not they thought you should take that position? 

Mr. Remington. When they were interviewing me? 

Senator Ferguson. Wlien you went to them about taking this job? 

Ml-. Remington. I was asking their advice, and they said they were 
sorry, they could not advise me on that question ; to use my own judg- 
ment. And I said, "Well, then, gentlemen, in view of the questions 
that have been raised about me, I think that I should decide not 
to take the job.'' And they said, ''Fine,"' but don't ask them. 

Senator Ferguson. Naturally the FBI questions previous to that 
indicated to you as to what they had in mind ? 

Mr. Remington. Oh, surely. 

Senator Ferguson. The Bentley woman and all. 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. So that you knew. 

JNIr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Then, when you took the job over in the Coun- 
cil, the Economic Council, at least the FBI agents knew about the 
Bentley woman? 

Mr. RE:\riNGTON. Oh, yes. 

Senator Ferguson. And Mr. MacMahon knew that there was some 
question being raised about your loyalty? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. He didn't. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1871 

Mr. Remington. He knew about the motlier-in-law, and he knew 
about my association witli my mother-in-hiw, and 1 used to visit her 
every week end when I lived in New York because I was in a small 
apartment and she had a home. 

Senator Ferguson. What is her name? 

Mr. Remington. Her name is P^lizabeth Moos. 

Senator Ferguson. Is she a widow ? 

Mr. Remington. She has been divorced; she is now divorced; and 
slie was divorced for the second time about 1940. 

Senator Ferguson. What does she work at ? 

Mr. Remington. I don't know what she works at now. 

Senator Ferguson. What did vshe then? 

Mr. Remington. At that time she was director of the Hession Hills 
Scliool, and she was forced out of that position when she became a 
Communist. 

Senator Ferguson. How long did she remain in there after she was 
a Communist? 

Mr. Remington. Not more than 6 months. 

Senator Ferguson. Of course, you can be a Communist sympathizer 
and not actually be a Communist. 

Mr. Remington. When I first met the lady, she used to be really 
rather bitter against Comnninists, not very bitter, just a litttle bitter, 
but it was more than a mildly negative attitude. She did not approve 
of Communists at that time. 

Then a gentleman named Alvin Warren came to live with her. 
He had fought in Spain in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade or battalion, 
and he came to live with her because she was interested in Spanish 
relief, and she has some money, and she was touched by some friend 
of hers who appealed to her womanliness, or whatever it was, and 
Alvin Warren came to live with her. He completed the conversion 
process fairly rapidly, between 6 months and a year, and he brought 
Joseph North, the editor of New Masses, to live in Elizabeth Moos' 
garage ; she rented it to the Norths, and North put the finishing touches 
on the conversion. 

There are also several other Communists in Croton with whom she 
came in contact through Warren, and she used to see them and no 
one else. 

Senator Ferguson. ^^^Ien did you first meet Elizabeth Bentley ? 

Mr. Re3iington. I have been racking my brains now for a year and 
a half since this thing first came up to try and ])lace exact dates, and 
X am not sure of exact dates. I can give you approximate ones. I 
was introduced by Elizabeth Moos to Joseph North, and Joseph North 
was in Elizabeth Moos' house half of every day and most evenings 
in 1911 — pardon me, in 1940. I knew him, and I talked with him, 
and I used to disagree with him, but I would see him around the 
house a great deal, and I am easy to get along with, and I don't pick 
fights. Joseph North in 1941 — pardon me, in 1942, sometime in the 
spring, summer, or fall of 1942, he introduced me to a man whom 
the FB] tells me is named John Golos. North introduced me to Go- 
los. as 1 knew North, and (Jolos was a friend of North's, and North 
told me Golos was writing a book about war mobilization, and he 
thought that I could help keej) him going on the right track. 

(toIos and North had lunch together, and I was with them, and my 
wife was with us, sometime in the spring or summer of 1942. 



1872 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Tlien at a subsequent meeting with Golos, I believe about a week 
later, I was introduced to Miss Bentley, and I was told her name Avas 
Helen Johnson, and she was a free-lance research Avoi-ker or writer 
associated with Golos, helping Golos, and also primarily working for 
newspaper reporters, particularly the reporter for PM. 

Senator Fj:rguson. Did you know Golos was a Communist? 

Mr. Reminoton. I did not. If I had stopped to think about it, I 
probably would have guessed it. 

Senator Ferguson. You knew North was? 

Mr. Remington. Yes; I knew North was a Communist; and, if I 
had stopped to think about it, I probably would have guessed that 
Golos was; but North has many friends, including many who are not 
Communists, in Croton, or at least he did when I used to know him ; 
and I just didn't think whether (jolos was a Communist or whether 
he was not a Connnunist. And, if I had stopped to think of it, I 
probably would have concluded he was a Communist. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you know Miss Johnson was a Communist 
under that name? 

Mr. Remington. After I had talked to Miss Johnson several times, 
and along about the end of 1943, it began to dawn on me that she 
was probably a Communist, and at that time I began to shy off. 

Senator Ferguson. How many times would you meet her? 

Mr. Remington. ]\Iy recollection is about half a dozen times, and 
the FBI tells me that I saw her more than that, but I have a vei-y 
distinct recollection of three i)laces that I have met her, and I recall 
meeting her at two of those places more than once, and so I place it 
at about half a dozen times. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you ever pay her any money ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. Give her any money? 

Mr. Remington. I once gave her some money for my wife, which 
was a contribution to what turns out to be a Communist organization, 
this Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee. 

Senator Ferguson. How much did you give her? 

Mr. Remington. It was a good many dollars, I expect. I checked 
back over my income-tax returns, and I took a deduction, I think, of 
about $25 or $35 for that contribution. 

Senator Ferguson. That you had given to her ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Did she ever collect any dues from you? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. So much a week ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. Was your wife a Communist? 

Mr. Remington. I have been w^ondering about that. Wliat used 
to be a firm conviction was that my wife has never been a party mem- 
ber, and that conviction is not as firm now as it was, and I have dis- 
covered that my wife has done an awful lot of things that I never 
heard about, an awful lot of things, and I know absolutely that my 
wife has what I would call a Communist mentality, a Communist 
orientation. 

She says, for example, "U. S. S. R. is powerful, and U. S. S. R. will 
dominate the world, and if it is inevitable, well, let us accept it," and 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1873 

that is her position. I think tliat she wants to see the U. S. S. R. 
dominate the world, and I am sure of that. 

When Tito shot down the United States planes over Yugoslavia, 
she defended the Yugoslav action. I am sure that she is a Communist 
in her orientation. I used to be sure she had never been a party 
member, and I would not swear now that she had not been a party 
member, because I don't know. 

Senator Ferguson. Well, now, asto Miss Bentley, did she ever de- 
liver to you any money? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. Any papers? 

Mr. Remington. She used to bring various publications, particu- 
larly PM and the Daily Worker. 

Senator Ferguson. Why would she bring you those? Could you 
not get those in the regular way ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. Just showing me things for illustration, 
and she would show me an article in PM and say, "Now, look what 
we said, and read it over and tell me what you think of it." 

And then I would finish reading it over and tell her what I thought 
of it, and she would say, "Keep it ; it will do you good." 

Wlien she did that a few times with the Daily Worker, telling me 
it would do me good, I began to get quite concerned. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you ever give her any information ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. What information? 

Mr. Remington. I gave her public information, a great deal of it. 
I gave her a great deal of information which the War Production 
Board wanted to make available to the public. 

Now, in addition to that, in addition to thoroughly public informa- 
tion, I used to give her a certain amount of background information 
of the kind that is normally given to reporters. 

Senator Febiuson. What, for instance? 

Mr. Remington. The big problem was that at that time PM and 
several other leftist publications were saying that the United States 
war effort was not all-out. The War Production Board was accused 
of selling out United States war goals to big business, and I am sure 
that you will recall that campaign in the leftist press, and it was a 
campaign for the second front, and there was a campaign for all-out 
war production, for aid to Russia, and they accused the War Produc- 
tion Board of "business as usual." 

I tried to convince her that she should be writing articles and help- 
ing PM write articles that would show that the United States was 
really doing a job, and she would come with an article wdiich says, 
"United States plane production falters," and I would tell her, "United 
States plane production is not faltering; we are doing a magnificent 
job," and I didn't know what plane output figures were, and I did 
not have access to those detailed production figures, but I knew what 
was in the press, and I would tell her the best information that I had 
from the press in siDccific terms, and I would give her background 
information, my own convictions about how well we were doing. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you ever give her any information in rela- 
tion to a process on rubbei ? 



1874 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remington. I told her about a process on rubber as an example 
of the kind of thing, the kind of little silly things that happened in 
government. 

Senator Ferguson. But didn't you give her, on various scraps of 
paper, the formula? 

Mr. Remington. I will have to give you a little history on that. I 
did not give her, on various scraps of paper, any formula. ^ I told her 
about the formula which had been played with by some Government 
people, after I discovered that the whole thing was sheer and utter 
nonsense and poppycock, and I tried to show her how difficult it is to 
run a rubber program by telling her: ^'Look, here is the problem we 
face. An inventor comes in and he says that he can make rubber out 
of garbage, and he gives us the formula, and it looks like nonsense, 
but he said it will work. So we spend 3 months, or the people who 
worked on it spent 8 months, trying to find out whether this thing will 
really work. 

"Now, if it will work, if you can make rubber out of garbage with, a 
bucket and a Bunsen burner, then clearly the War Production Board 
should not put billions of dollars of equipment into a rubber pro- 
gram. So you have got to delay a little bit on your billion dollar pro- 
gram while you make sure that this crackpot hasn't got something that 
is really good.'' 

Well, when it was all over, I told her, "Now, you know what that 
fellow claimed he could do ? He claimed that he could take some kind 
of petroleum of some kind and })ut it in a bucket, and heat it just right, 
and pour in a chemical" — and I have forgotten what the chemical 
was — "and then put in a piece of natural rubber, and the whole thing 
would turn into a mass of absolutely chemically pure natural rubber." 

I said, "That is what was explored, and it turned out to be non- 
sense." 

Senator Ferguson. Did she ever print that in the Daily Worker 
or anywhere ? 

Mr. Remington. I don't think so. 

Senator Ferguson. Wliat other information, or how many times 
did you give her information, or where would you meet her to give 
her the information ? 

Mr. Remington. Well, sir, I met her at a drug store at the corner 
of Fourteenth Street and Pennsylvania. 

Senator Ferguson. That is the Whelan Drug Co., there ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. All right. 

Mr. Remington. And following, once, we walked from there down 
to a restaurant there, it is a kind of a cafeteria, and I have foi-gotten 
the name of it; and then I met her at the corner of Indiana and Fourth 
Street, and I think that I met her there twice. 

Senator Ferguson. How would you make those appointments? 

Mr. Remington. She would call up on the phone. 

Senator Ferguson. At your offi e ^ 

Mr. Remington. Yes; and she would say, "This is Helen Johnsoiu 
I am in town. Can you spare some time? Could you meet me at 
Fourteenth Street? Or, I am in kind of a hurry, could you walk out 
to the corner and meet me, and we can talk for a few minutes before 
I go to my next appointment, before I catch my train." 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1875 

Senator Ferguson. Did you know slie was meeting other people? - 

Mr. Kemington. Yes; slie told me she came down on these trips 
from New York to see as many people as she could in order to get as 
much information as she could about the problems she was writing 
about, and she told me that she was here for several days. 

Senator Ferguson. Did she meet any of your friends ^ 

Mr. Kemington. Yes; she talked several times, apparently, with a 
friend of mine, ex-friend of mine, named [name deleted], and the 
FBI was very concerned as to whether I had taken the initiative in 
introducing [name deleted] to Bentley or Johnson, or whether she had 
come to me and said, "Do you know [name deleted] ? I would like to 
meet him." And I was never able to clarify in my mind which it was. 
It was one or the other. 

Senator Ferguson. But she did meet him? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. And she got information from him? 

Mr. Kemington. She talked with him at very great length about 
South American problems, and 1 assume that he told her whatever 
she says he told her. Now, if [name deleted] is a Communist, he prob- 
ably told her things he was not supposed to, and if [name deleted] is 
not a Communist, he probably confined himself to the things whicli 
would be proper. 

As to whether [name deleted] is a Communist or not, I have only an 
opinion, I don't know. I think he is. 

Senator P^erguson. With any other of your friends or acquaint- 
ances ? 

Mr. Remington. No ; I never introduced her to any. 

Senator Ferguson. That is the only person that you actually knew 
she was meeting? 

Mr. Remington. That is right, the only person. 

Senator Ferguson. Did your wife ever give her any information? 

Mr. Remington. That I am not sure of. The FBI asked me 
whether Miss Johnson or Miss Bentley ever came out to my home, 
and I don't know whether she did or not. I think that it is quite 
possible. I have a vague recollection of inviting her out, and I don't 
inow whether she accepted it or whether she did not accept it, and 
this is just one of those things that didn't make much difference at 
the time. 

Senator Ferguson. What date did you go to New York ? 

Mr. Remington. I ap])eared before the grand jury on about Sep- 
tember o or 4 or 5, the first week of September 19J:T. 

Senator Ferguson. Noav, after that, you went from the Council 
in the Executive Offices, over to the Commerce Department? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Will you tell us how you got that job? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. I Avas working at the Council, and I 
had kind of a feeling that — and maybe I am talking out of school 
now 

Senator Ferguson. We want everything, and you are sworn, and 
tell everything. You are not talking out of school, and don't feel 
tliat it is talking out of school. Give us the whole story. 

Mr. Remington. I had kind of a feeling that the Council was 
writing reports, and I didn't believe everything was in the reports. 



1876 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Senator Ferguson. What do you mean when you say they were 
writino: reports? 

Mr. Eeminoton. They were not accomplishing much more than 
writing reports. 

Senator Ferguson. Political? 

Mr. Remington. I thought the organization was — well, sir, I don't 
think that I should say much about my opinion of the Council. I 
think that they are a bunch of good, sincere, honest men, and I think 
that they are very competent professional economists; and I felt that 
some of the things that had been recommended by them were not 
things that I personally would stand behind, and I didn't want to 
stay around. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you think it was merely just political 
reports ? 

Mr. Remington. I thought that some of the things the President 
put into reports were political, and the Council, in the eyes of the 
public, bore the responsibility for these reports. 

Senator Ferguson. In other words, you tell us now that some of 
these reports were just approved by the Council, and they were from 
the President ? 

Mr. Remington. They were drafted by the Council, that is, drafted 
by the Council, and then the reports go to the President, and then the 
reports are rewritten by the President, and they come to Congress as 
the Economic Report of the President. But everyone knows that the 
Council has made the first draft, and in the eyes of the public it is 
a Council report, and really it is the President's report. 

Senator Ferguson. The President rewrites it and they finally do 
approve it ? 

Mr. Remington. No ; the Council doesn't approve it, the President 
makes the final decision and writes the final draft and sends it to 
Congress as the President's report. And the Council does not approve 
the final draft. 

Senator Ferguson. They don't even approve the final draft ? 

Mr. Remington. They do not have the veto power on the final draft. 

Senator Ferguson. Then, you mean to say that this report is so 
changed b}' the President and became a report that you would not 
stand by ? 

Mr. Remington. There were one or two things in the report that 
I personally disagreed with. 

Senator Tiiye. What, for instance, if I may ask that question? 

Senator Ferguson. That is a good question. 

Mr. Remington. I think it is asinine to propose a tax on profits to 
combat inflation, and I just don't think that that combats inflation. 

Senator Ferguson. You think the company tries to make more 
profits to get a little money, and thereby inflates? 

Mr. Remington. They will raise prices again, and there is no way 
to ffet away from it. 

Senator Ferguson. That is your judgment? 

Mr. Remington. It is just a question of my personal judgment. 

Senator Ferguson. The Council, then, really never recommended 
that ? That was part of the President's idea ? 

Mr. Remington. I don't know, I am not sure. The Council was 
very close about what the President does. 

Senator Ferguson. Anyway, you were dissatisfied there ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1877 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. What did you do ? 

Mr. Remington. Just slightly. 

Senator Ferguson. What did you do ? 

Mr. Remington. So I don't suppose that I told more than two peo- 
ple that, "Well, the Council itself is fine, and I have learned a lot, 
but there are certain things here that I think are a little too New 
Dealish, and I don't want to stay here very long, because I am afraid 
that I will get tarred with the brush." I suppose that I told two 
people, in December or January, two or three people. And in Febru- 
ary, the first part of February, I got a call from a fellow down at the 
Department of Commerce, whom I had known slightly. 

Senator Ferguson. What was his name ? 

Mr. Remington. His name was Lawrence Keagan, and he said, 
"Bill, there is a job here that has got to be filled," and he said, "Var- 
ious members of the export program staff have suggested that you be 
asked to come in and head that staff," and he said, "I will propose it to 
Fred Mclntyre if there is any possibility that you will accept." 

So I went down to see Keagan, and asked him about the job, and 
I told him that I thought that 1 would accept if the job were offered to 
me. That was a very delicate situation in the Office of International 
Trade. There had been an export-program staff in the Office of 
International Trade, and there were several divisions about this level, 
and the export-program staff was at this level, and they were going 
to raise the program staff up to division level. 

Well, the man they had in charge of it is a good man, but he is not 
very mature in dealing with people, and he had a lot of enemies. The 
problem was to find a new face to bring in, someone who had been at 
higher levels of responsibility in the past, as I had been, and someone 
who was a new face and didn't have a history of disagreement with 
other members of the organization. 

So they consulted around as to what outsider might be available, 
and my name was thrown into the pot by some of the staff members 
who had had indirect contact with me when I was at OWMR, ap- 
parently. So Keagan called me and Mclntyre called me up after I 
talked wdth Keagan, and I saw, Mclntyre, the first time that I had 
ever met him. I indicated an interest, and they began to check around 
town. They checked around town by direct phone call and chatting 
informally with a great many people. They checked with David 
Bruce, the Assistant Secretary, and William Foster, the Under Sec- 
retary, both of whom knew me ; and the general consensus was that I 
was the best man available, the best man they could get for the job. 
xVnd among all of the people in Washington who know me well and 
worked with me very closely over these last years, every one is abso- 
lutely completely convinced of my loyalty to the United States; and 
more that that, I cannot tell you gentlemen how much I hate U. S. S. R. 
communism, and what it stands for. I don't believe many men lose 
two children to it the way I have. 

Senator Ferguson. Now, you say Bruce knew you, and Mclntyre 
you had met once? 

Mr. Remington. I met him when he called me up for an interview. 

Senator Ferguson. And Blaisdell ? 

Mr. Remington. Blaisdell, I had known for some time. 

Senator Ferguson. You had known for some time ? 



1878 COMMUNISM IN" THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remingtox. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you talk to liim? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. Will you tell us your conversation with him, 
and when it was, before you took the job or after? 

Mr. Remington. Before I took the job. when I had decided that T 
thouf^ht that I would like it, but before I took it, I went to see Blaisdell, 
and I told him about the question that had been raised with me by the 
FBI, and I said it was over a year a<ro that the FBI talked to me about 
my contact with Miss Helen Johnson. 

Senator Ferguson. Up to that time, you didn't know her name was 
Bentley? 

Mr. Remington. No; I didn't know it was Bentley until I saw it in 
the New Enciland newspapers yesterday on my way down in the train. 
The New England papers were full of her picture yesterday. 
- Senator Ferguson. All right. 

Mr. REiViiNGTON. I said "I met this Bentley woman through Joseph 
North, who is a friend of my mother-in-law, and I talked with her 
several times, and the FBI considers that I was indiscreet or implied 
they thought I was indiscreet in talking with her, and I don't think 
that I was." I said, "I got called before the gi-and jury in September to 
answer questions there, and the FBI talked to me over a year ago, and 
the grand jury talked to me 6 months ago, and nothing has happened, 
and I assume that I answered all of the questions satisfactorily, and I 
want you to know this before I accepted the job." 

Senator Ferguson. What did he say? 

Mr. Remington. "Well, if there is still any question, they will catch 
it during the appointment process, the Civil Service Commission will 
know about it," and he said : "Nobody has said anything to me which 
would indicate your disloyalty, and if they do during the appointment 
process, we will stop it." 

Senator Ferguson. And then you went in, and who hired you ? He 
does, doesn't he ? 

Mr. Remington. Well, the matter was cleared with Bruce and 
Foster, because 

Senator Ferguson. Did you ever mention to Bruce or Foster that 
you had been before the grand jury? 

Mr. Remington. No; because I didn't know them as well as I do 
Blaisdell. 

Senator Ferguson. But you did tell Blaisdell? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. And that was how many days before you 
actually took the job on the l()tli of March ? 

Mr. Remington. That was before I accepted it. I accepted it about 
February 15, and I was a})pointed a month later. 

Senator Ferguson, You really accepted it in February? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. And it was before that, before you accepted it? 

Mr. Remington. Before 1 accepted it. And then there was four 
solid Aveeks, I guess it was, ]^erhaps even 5 weeks, while the appoint- 
ment was going through, and I must confess I sat on the edge of my 
chair, I didn't know whether there were still questions about my loyalty 
or not, and I told one or two friends or I told several people at the 
council, I said, 'T am due to leave here to go to the Department of 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1879 

Commerce,"' and I said, "There are plenty of opportunities for things 
to develop which would make the appointment inappropriate, and I 
don't know whether it will come throuo-h or not until I sign the oath of 
office." And I didn't know whether there were questions about any 
loyalty or not until I signed the oath of office, and then I assumed that 
all questions had been resolved. 

Senator Ferguson. Where did you have this conversation with 
Blaisdell? 

Mr. Remington. I had it in his office one day. We were both in a 
very great hurry, and the conversation occupied 10 minutes, of which 
we spent not more than 2 minutes on this loyalty question. 

Senator Ferguson. He kind of passed this off about you being be- 
fore the grand jury? 

Mr. Remington. I rather passed it off with him. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you tell him what this grand jury was in- 
terested in? You must have found that out. How long did they 
examine you ? I am not going to ask you what they asked you. 

Mr. Remington. I would be perfectly willing to tell you what I 
told them. 

Senator Ferguson. Oh, no. 

Mr. Remington. I don't believe that I could tell you the questions 
that they asked. 

Senator Ferguson. I am not putting it that way, but how many 
hours or minutes. 

Mr. Remington. I guess about 3 hours, 1 hour one day and about 2 
hours another, and perhaps not quite that much. 

Senator Ferguson. You knew that the Attorney General's office — 
who did you talk with in the Attorney General's office ? 

Mr. Remington. I have forgotten the man's name. I have it in 
correspondence. 

Senator Ferguson. Is it Mr. Quinn? 

Mr. Remington. That sounds familiar. It ^Yas an assistant to 
Donegan, if he is an assistant. 

Mr. Adlerman. He is working with Quinn on the case. 

Mr. Remington. Donegan sounds like it. 

Senator Ferguson. You talked with him up in New York ? 

Mr. Remington. Wlien I talked to Blaisdell, I told him that I had 
been in contact with this person, and the FBI had been to see me a year 
ago, and I said, "Of course, you know about that grand jury in New 
York. I ajDpeared there, too, and I believe that I answered their ques- 
tions satisfactorily." 

That is pretty close to word for word what I said to him about the 
grand jury. 

Senator Ferguson. This Harriman committee, now; who did you 
have to interview on that before you got that job as assistant executive 
secretary ? 

Mr. Remington. Richard Bissel, the executive secretary. Richard 
Bissel was executive secretary of the Harriman committee and I had 
worked for him at the Office of War Mobilization and Reconversion, 
c^nd he had been my supervisor there before Harold Stein, and he knew 
me well enough to have no question about me at all, and more than that, 
in March of lO-tT, that is 3 months before Marshall's speech at Plarvard, 
announcing the Marshall plan, I had written a memorandum to Sec- 
retary Harriman and I had come down with him on his plane from 



1880 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

New York. I talked with him about ways and means of moving 
against communism in Europe, and he asked me to write him a memo- 
randum following that conversation. At the end of March I wrote him 
a memorandum in which I outlined the need for a reconstruction 
program in Western Europe to fight connnunism. 

I did not blueprint the Marshall plan or anything like that. My 
concept of it was quite different. My idea was to put American busi- 
ness in there, not Government money, but to get American business in 
there to fight communism, I was proposing a system of private in- 
vestment. 

But Bissel knew about that memorandum, and he knew how keenly 
I felt about stopping communism in Europe, and that was one of the 
reasons that he turned to me for help on the Harriman committee, 
because he said that he know that I had been thinking about this thing 
and writing about it for some time. 

Senator Ferguson. That was in March of 1947 ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Fergi son. You went with the Harriman committee in 1947, 
about August ? 

Mr. Eemington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Is that right ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. About the 1st of August ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. While you were on the Harriman committee, you 
were called before the New York grand jury ? 

Mr. Remington. That is right. 

Senator Ferguson. You had to take time off to go up before the 
grand jury ? 

Mr. Remington. I was asked to keep it confidential. 

Senator Ferguson. But you had to do that ? 

Mr. Remingto::. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. And you remained on the Harriman committee 
as assistant executive secretai-y after you had testified up at New York ? 

Mr. Remington. Sure. 

Senator Ferguson. But the Attorney General's office asked you to 
keep it secret? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. And they knew that you were on the Harriman 
committee ? 

Mr. Remington. Oh, yes. I made a very great point of that, and 
I said, "I am working for this Harriman committee and if it comes 
out in headlines that an employee of the Harriman committee is 
being indicted for espionage or goodness knows what, it won't make 
any difference in the votes on the Marshall plan in the Senate, but 
it might infiuence a vote or two in the House, and in the interest of 
the agency I would like to resign before I am indicted if I am going 
to be indicted." 

And I said. "I am confident that I Avon't be indicted, and if I am 
I know I won't be convicted because I am innocent ; but if there is 
going to be any indictment, give me a chance to resign so that I can 
protect the agency as best I can." 

Senator Ferguson. Did they agree that they would notify you? 

Mr. Remington. No. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1881 

Senator Fergison. They would not agree to that? 

Mr. Kemington. They said, ''Well, it ^Yill be a month or two before 
anything happens, anyway, and perhaps you will be finished," and 
then by the end of September I began to pick up rumors in the paper 
that the whole thing had be^n washed out and nobody was going to 
be indicted. 

I thought, sir, that there was nothing to the whole Bentley propo- 
sition by that time because I thought if there had been there would 
have been indictments. 

Senator Fekgusox. But the FBI had questioned you about it and 
Mr. Quinn had thought well enough of it to take you at least before 
the grand jury. 

Mr. Kemington. Yes. 

Senator McClellan. What purpose did you think that you were 
serving when you were giving information to the Bentley w^oman? 

Mr. Remington. Well, sir, the kind of information that I was giving 
here would be perfectly proper to give to any reporter that you trusted. 
Now, the purpose of it, sir, to answer your question directly, was to 
try and convince this supposed reporter that the United States was 
in there pitching in the production effort. 

Senator McClellan. Is that in 1943? 

Mr. Remington. Yes; at the end of 1942 and all of 1943. At that 
time, as you will recall, sir, the Russians were accusing the United 
States of delaying the second front, and there were rumors in the 
press constantly about the Russians seeking a separate peace because 
the United States wasn't in there all-out, and the leftist press in this 
country, particularly PM, was writing about "business as usual" in 
Washington, and "big business doesn't want to fight," and "big busi< 
ness doesn't want to convert to war." 

It was important and we were told that it was important in the 
War Production Board, and it was important to get across the idea 
that the United States was in that war to fight, and that the United 
States was not playing business as usual, that big business was con- 
verting to war production, and American corporations were doing a 
job. 

Senator McClellan. Now, let me ask you this : You speak of the 
importance of the dissemination of this particular information, trying 
to get it across to this particular reporter. Did you have any assign- 
ment to do that from your superiors ? 

Mr. Remington. This matter was discussed, this question of public 
relations was discussed informally in the staff meetings of the Plan- 
ning Committee. 

Senator McClellan. Did your superiors know that you were in 
contact with her and disseminating this information through her? 

Mr. Remington. My superiors knew that I talked to reporters 
occasionally, and they did not know, or I did not check with them 
each time I saw them. 

Senator McClellan. By that time did you not know that her boss, 
John Golos, whom you had previously known, was a Communist? 

Mr. Remington. That had never occurred to me, because I did not 
see John Golos again after the interview in New York, after the 
second time. 

Senator McClellan. You had no knowledge at that time that he 
was a Communist ? 



1882 COMMUNISM IX THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remington. If I had stopped to think about it, I would have 
reasoned that Golos was a friend of North and North is a Commu- 
nist, and Golos may or may not be a Communist and probably is, but 
I didn't think that throu<rh because it just didn't seem relevant. 

Senator McClellan. Now, let me get this straight. You had no 
instructions from any superior or the consent of any superior with 
respect to your relations and your associations with Miss Bentley, a 
reporter, or any specific authoi'ity or instructions from them, to giA'e 
her such information as you felt was proper? 

Mr. Remington. Sir 

Senator McClellan. What I am trying to determine was whether 
you were acting on orders, or with their knowledge and consent or if 
you simply did it on your own initiative and upon your own judg- 
ment and in your own discretion. 

Mr. Remington. I thought that I was acting within the general 
instructions of my superiors with respect to press relations. I have 
never in any job received specific instiuctions from a superior what to 
say to a reporter or whether or not to see any specific reporter. 

Senator McClellan. Did any of your duties in that employment 
pertain to public relations with the press? 

Mr. Remington. As much so as in any job I ever had, I suppose. 

Senator McClellan. You know whether you had any duty or 
responsibility in connection with the press for releases to it and for 
the dissemination of information through it. Do you ki>o>v whether 
that was any part of your duties or not ? 

Mr. Remington. You want a simple answer, and the simple answer 
is "yes.'' Now, may I qualify that. Mr. Rogers told me to speak up 
when I though a question was not fair. 

Senator Ferguson. That is perfectly proper, and the Senator agrees 
to that. 

Senator McClellan. I am trying to nail this down, and that is all 
right. You can explain any answer you want, and I want an explana- 
tion. I may have the greatest sympathy on earth for you when I find 
out the facts, but I want the facts. 

Mr. Remington. You are entitled to the facts. Now, bureaucracv 
is an awfully complicated thing. I have always been a very hard- 
driving youngster in the Government and I have always had an awful 
lot of responsibility, more responsibilitv than my classification showed. 
That was because T will take responsibility, sometimes unwisely. 

At the planning committee, we had geiieral guidance from our chief 
as to what he was doing with respect to the press, and we were told 
that, "Sure, if the rej^orter asks yinx questions, keep on the right track." 
We were told if a reporter asks you questions, don't be dumb, tell them 
what they should know. 

Senator Ferguson. Was everybody in that department a press 
agent under that theory, that anyone could be questioned by a re- 
porter, particularly a reporter of the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Remington. I didn't know she was a reporter for the Daily 
Worker. I thought that she was a rejiorter for PAI . 

Senator Ferguson. She brought you Daily Worker articles with 
things in them that you had given her? 

Mr. Remington. No, PM; things that she wanted me to comment 
on, and not things that I had given her, and she had given me articles 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1883 

in PM, and she would also show nie the Daily Worker and ask me to 
connnent on things that were in there. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you ever get copies of the Daily Worker 
I'l'om her 'i 

Mr. Kemington. Yes. 

Senator Fer(;usox. Didn't you regularly get copies of the Daily 
AVorker from her^ 

Mr. Remington. Not regularly. 

Senator Ferguson. Well, how many times did you get copies of the 
Daily Worker i 

Mr. Remington. I would guess three or four times. 

Senator McClellan. Let me ask you, in thar connection, was not 
that fact alone — that she would bring you the Daily Worker and 
connnent favorably on articles in it — was that not suihcient in time 
of war to arouse your suspicions as to her loyalty? 

Mr. Remington. At that time Russia was an ally. 

Senator McClellan. Tliat doesn't matter, but the fact that the 
Daily Worker was criticizing the United States, and she was appar- 
ently trying to indoctrinate you with the same opinion that the Daily 
Worker was expressing. 

Mr. Remington. Ultimately it did, sir; she aroused my awareness. 
At the outset she did not. Now, the Wall Street Journal and the 
Journal of Commerce were being critical of the United States Gov- 
ernment, too, at that time, and any good newspaper is critical of the 
Government ; and I believe, sir, that 1 personally have been critical of 
Government agencies many times, and I believe some members of the 
majority party in Congress have been critical of the Government. 

Senator McClellan. I am not questioning that, but she apparently 
did not bring you the Wall Street Journal or bring you the regular 
press of the countr}', but kept bringing you the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Remington. She didn't think that I needed exposure to the 
Wall Street Journal. She thought I had enough. 

Senator jNIcClellan. She thought that she should expose you to 
the Daily Worker, 

Mr. Remington. That is right. 

Senator Thye. Might I ask this question : Did Miss Bentley — or, 
as you knew her then. Miss Johnson — ])ress you for further informa- 
tion than that you gave her at the time ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes; she did. 

Senator Tiiye. In what manner would she press you ? 

]Mr. Re.mington. She pressed for information on all subjects, par- 
ticularly production. 

Senator Ferguson. Plane production? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, and tank production, and she pressed for 
information of all kinds which I did not have, and which 1 would not 
have given her if I had had it. 

Senator Tiiye. For instance, on plane production, what information 
did you give her on plane production ? 

Mr. Remington. I told her on one occasion exactly how many planes 
had been produced in the previous month, because that exact informa- 
tion had been released by the War Production Board in the newspapers. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you tell her to whom the planes were going, 
the i)roduction that had been produced? 

Mr. Remington. No ; I didn't know. 



1884 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Senator Ferguson. Didn't she ask that? 

Mr. Remingtox. She asked that, but I didn't know that. 

Senator Thye. Did she press for information on new designs and 
new proposed production plans? 

Mr. Remington. Slie asked me about that, and found out very 
rapidly that I knew nothing whatsoever about it, and I couldn't even 
give her background information on that kind of thing. 

Senator O'Conor. There is just a question as to the system that was 
in vogue at the office. Are we to understand that the employees were 
able to give out, without any supervision from the top authority, infor- 
mation to any reporter that might ask? Were things on that basis: 
that the individual was able to put his own judgment into effect as to 
what might or might not be given out. 

Mr. Remington. Sir, perhaps the best answer to that would be to 
tell you how I run my staff now, or how I did. 

Senator Ferguson. If you would keep to the question back in the 
War Production Board, it would be better for the Senator. 

Senator O'Conor. I was asking really what the existing situation 
was under the then existing circumstances. 

Mr. Remington. The situation at that time was that the Planning 
Committee Staff was told in staff meetings how the Director of the 
Staff, how the members of the Planning Committee themselves were 
talking to reporters. 

One of the men who was not my direct superior, not de jure but 
de facto my top superior, Tom Wilson, he used to see reporters, several 
a day, constantly, and in the staff meetings of his little section be used 
to talk to us about what he would tell the reporters, and he would say, 
"Now, look here, boys, when these reporters start asking you ques- 
tions, for God's sake tell them what I just told so and so." 

He would say, "We cannot afford to give them the impression that 
we are holding out on them. They will smell a rat, and they will 
crucify us if we play dumb; so do not tell them sp and so, but tell 
them we are doing a good job and we are in here fighting," and that 
is the way the instructions came to us. 

Senator McClellan. That seems to me like a far looser situation 
than I thought existed, but do you mean all of you on the staff were 
free to talk to reporters without the information clearing through 
some centralized authority, someone to censor or someone to authorize 
its release ? 

Mr. Remington. I trust my staff, sir. 

Senator McClellan. If everybody is going to talk in an agency to 
reporters, just promiscuously, I don't see how you would ever keep 
a secret. 

Mr. Remington. At the Export Program Staff there has never 
been a leak, and I think the reason that there has never been a leak is 
because those people know what they are not supposed to talk about. 

Senator Thye. How many of you were on that staff? 

Mr. Remington. At the Planning Committee, the War Production 
Board, I guess 30 or maybe 40. 

Senator Thye. There were 30 of you, of which your immediate 
superior permitted to speak on the question of what the Board, the 
War Production Board, was doing? 

Mr. Remington. Permitted us to speak when asked by reporters 
who came around. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1885 

Senator McClellan. Let me ask you another question at this point : 
During that time that you were in contact with the Bentley woman, 
and giving her such information as you may have given her, did you 
hold any press conference ? 

Mr, Remington. Oh, no, sir. 

Senator McClellan. You held no press conference ? 

Mr. Remington. No ; I never held a press conference. 

Senator McClellan. Did you see any reporters at your office? 

Mr. Remington. I never saw a reporter at my own office — yes, I 
did see a reporter at my office once or twice. 

Senator McClellan. I mean in the relation of giving out press 
information. 

Mr. Remington. In the relation of giving out background informa- 
tion, but not press, releases. 

Senator McClellan. How many did you see during that time, 
different reporters? 

Mr. Remington. I think that I saw two in my office, and probably 
two or three or four more socially. 

Senator McClellan. Did you ever ask Miss Bentley to come to your 
office to get information ? 

Mr. Remington. I did. 

Senator McClellan. Did she come? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir; she said that she was uptown and she 
would not have time, and she was on her way to the train and it would 
not be convenient, or it was a beautiful day or why not walk outside. 

Senator McClellan. Would that be during office hours? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator McClellan. You would leave your place of business and 
your office and your duties to go downtown and meet her and give her 
information? 

Mr. Remington. Wlien I was working 12 hours a day 

Senator McClellan. Just answer that "Yes" or "No." Did you do 
it or did you not do it ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, but may I explain that, sir, that I think that 
the question is a clear one and straightforward one 

Senator McClellan. That is what I want. I don't want any equivo- 
cation here, I want to get the truth. 

Mr. Remington. But I was not neglecting my duties. 

Senator McClellan. I did not say that you were neglecting your 
duties, but you were going outside of the regular routine of your 
duties ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Senator McClellan. Was it then a part of your duties to go down- 
town and meet press reporters? 

Mr. Remington. It was part of my duties to go downtown to meet 
anybody that I thought would help the job that I was supposed to do. 

Senator McClellan. Well, is that not a bit unusual that a busi- 
nessman occupying a position you had, instead of telling them if they 
wanted information to come to the office and get it, that you were 
willing and did on different occasions leave your office during office 
hours and go down to places A\here you didn't expect to be seen and 
observed to give out information ? 

67052 — 50 — pt. 1 13 



1886 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remington. If someone came to me now at my present age, with 
my present experience, I would say that it was definitely suspicious. 

Senator Thye. How old were you at the time that you met Miss 
Bentley or Miss Johnson ? 

]\Ir. R?:mington. In 1942 I guess that I was 2-i years old. 

Senator Ferguson, How did you come to break off relationship with 
Miss Johnson ? 

Mr. Remington. During 1943- she called me, I guess three or four 
times in the beginning of the year, and once or twice at the end of 
the year, and it was kind of dying of its own weight, and then I recall 
seeino- her the last time, only I am not so sure I recall it. The FBI 
tells me that I saw her for the last time at the National Gallery, and 
they told me it was early in 1944. 

Senator Ferguson. Why would you meet her at the National 
Gallery, instead of meeting at your office? 

]\Ir. Remington. A senior member of the staff of any organization 
has people come to his office, and a junior staff member is in the habit 
of going to other }jeople"s ofhce. 

Senator Ferguson. Her office was not at the Gallery. 

Mr. Remington. No ; but it seemed natural to me, and it was around 
lunchtime, and she said, "I am over this way ; come on over if you can.'' 

Senator McClellan. Where was your office at that time? 

Mr. Remington, At the Social Security Building;, and I often went 
to the Gallery for lunch. 

Senator McClellan. I want to pursue this just a little further. 
What other reporters did you meet by a])i)()intment during that same 
period of time downtown somewhere and give information to? 

Mr. Remington, Well 

Senator McClellan, By appointment. I mean, they would call 
you. 

Mr. Remington. I never met any other reporters by appointment. 

Senator McClellan. This was the only one ? 

Mr. Remington. The only one by appointment. I met several 
other reporters, however. 

Senator McClellan, And you did not even know that she was a 
rei)orter at the time, to tell you the truth about it ? 

Mr. liEAiiNiiTON. [ never asked a reporter for his credentials, and 
I am going to start from now on, if I am ever in a job again. 

Senator Thye. You were 24 years old, and your immediate superior 
permitted you, along with your other fellow associates, about 30, to 
give information relative to production of planes and other produc- 
tioi^s in war plants to the reporters? 

Mr. Remington. They permitted us to give out public information. 

Senator O'Conor. Right on that point, if T could ask you to clarify 
that, because I was certainly quite shocked at the revelations of the 
system, and that is what I have in mind. 

Was there no check-up or reporting by you to superiors as to what 
was beino- disclosed? — because under that svstem anything which was 
in the opinion of the individual, of the minor employee, let us say^ 
public information, could be disclosed, and you may very well have 
been in i)osition of possessing vital information; information vital to 
a potential enemy. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1887 

Mr. Remington. I think that I said to my superior a couple of 
times soniethinor to the effect that "Well, I got in a good lick yes- 
terday, and I think I convinced a reporter that Charles Wilson is a 
good egg, and I think 

Senator Ferguson. Was she doubtful of Wilson? 

Mr. KEMiNciToN. Yes; Wilson came in Avith a business-as-usual 
reputation. 

Senator Ferguson. Did that not indicate that she was a Com- 
munist ? 

Mr. Remin(;ton. No, because Ferdinand Eberstadt was doubtful of 
Wilson. 

Senator Fergi\son. As much as she was? 

Mr. Remington. More so: Eberstadt and Wilson fought a battle 
to the death and Eberstadt went back to New York. 

Senator Ferguson. So that did not 

Mr. Remington. I personally was more of an Eberstadt man, 
myself, but because I had worked on vertical controlled materials; 
but I was convinced that Wilson Avas honest and meant to do a job; 
but I didn't think that he had the experience that Eberstadt had. 

Senator O'Conor. Was any information disclosed with you to the 
fact that the Daily Worker was so much in evidence at the time of 
the visit ? 

Mr. Remin(;t()N. That didn't seem too strange to me. at the time, 
because the ])roblem was — or the ])roblem that I was thinking about 
was liow do you convince peoi^le avIio don't believe it that the produc- 
tion effort is all-out: that the ap])easement is no more. 

Senator O'Conor. That is the i)oint that I had in mind. Avhether or 
not you were always thinking of your side, trying to sell the thing, 
or Avhether there wasn't on the part of yourself or any others down 
there any suspicion that maybe the peo]3le coming in were ill-dis- 
l^osed or were possibly looking for information for other reasons. 

Mr. Remington. Well, sir. I have been, up until I began to leai-n 
some lessons a few years ago, I am afraid a little naive. The problem 
didn't occur to me. and I will tell you why. I am not hopelessly 
naive, or at least, I ho])e 1 wasn't. 

Senator Ferguson. You had held some veiy responsible positions, 
and you were taken to London prior to this time, and if you were so 
naive, why did they take you to London as really an expert? 

Mr. Remington. I am not in a position to evaluate my own quali- 
fications exactly, but I am an economist who knows a good deal about 
economics, and also I get along Avith people very Avell, at least, I get 
along Avith my office associates, and Avhen I am in an office there are 
no internal jealousies develo])ing. and the office doesn't split apart 
like Eberstadt and Wilson split apart at the War Production Board, 
and Avhen I am dealing Avith another office relations are friendly, and 
they are not unfriendly, and that is Avhy I am valuable. 

Senator O'Conor. That leaves unanswered, and certainly unex- 
plained, my question. 

Mr. Remington. I think that I can explain that a little bit. 
There at the time you Avill recall Ave Avere operating under instruc- 
tions from the White House, and the instructions Avere called the 
Russian protocol, and the Russian protocol Avas a commitment on the 
part of the United States Government to supply quite a lot of stuff 
to the U. S. S. R. 



1888 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

The Russian protocol also iDrovided — I don't know whether it is 
written in there or whether it is just provided by inference — that the 
stuff for Russia would get the highest priority that the War Pro- 
duction Board had to give. It was triple A. Now, when you are 
giving triple A priority as an organization to planes and guns and 
tanks for the Russians, and when you get your primary attention to 
get the stuff to the Russians, and when that is the order that comes 
down from the White House to get it to the Russians — you don't 
stop to question a reporter who is obviously interested in getting stuff 
to Russia. 

You are trying to convince the reporter that "God, yes, we are 
carrying out the instructions, and Ave are not sabotaging the Presi- 
dent's instructions." We are trying to carry it out, and so when she 
showed me an article in the Daily Worker and when she obviously 
was interested in getting stuff to Russia it didn't arouse my suspicions, 
because that is what Harry Hopkins was doing more than she was. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you ever give her any memorandum, 
anything in writing? 

Mr. Remington. I gave her in writing press releases, forms. War 
Production Board public forms. 

Senator Ferguson. Could she not get those press releases from the 
regular press if she was a reporter? Why did you have to take to 
her press releases ? 

Mr. Remington. If a reporter came to you, sir, or if a reporter 
came to the Senate press room and said, "I would like a copy of a 
speech that was something about flood control, and somebody was in 
favor of flood control and the speech was some time last year,'' what 
would the press room do? She would just shove a lot of stuff around. 

Senator Ferguson. Is that the only thing that you ever gave her ; 
press releases and public forms? 

Mr. Remington. I gave her press releases, I recall distinctly, and 
I gave her public forms that I recall distinctly, and I showed her 
and I believe gave her, copies of memoranda which contained no 
confidential information or classified information. 

Senator Ferguson. But you did give her memoranda from the 
office? 

Mr. Remington. Mostly memoranda that I had done myself. 

Senator Ferguson, How would you know what to take down to 
her? She would call you down at the Whelan Drug Store, at the 
museum, or on the street corner, and you would carry down mem- 
orandums, and how would you know what to carry down there? 

Mr. Remington. I often know what I want to sell a person. 

Senator Ferguson. You were doing the selling? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. What were you trying to do? 

Mr. Remington. I was trying to sell her on the idea that ITnited 
States production program was a good one, and now one thing : I spent 
6 months trying to sell her on the fact that the War Production 
Board — I say I spent 6 months that is probably three times I talked 
with her about this — was that the War Production Board program 
of controlling materials was a good one, and how we started the war 
with something called production-requirements plan and it had weak- 
nesses, and I worked in an olTice which proposed the controlled ma- 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1889 

terials plan, which Eberstadt put in, and Robert Lamb, whose ntune 
probably aj^pears in the FBI report, Robert Lamb, an old friend of 
my wife's, was working here on the Hill at that time and he was work- 
ing here for a Senator or a House connnittee. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you know Kramer working on the Hill ? 

Mr. Remington. Kramer? No ; I don't know him. 

Lamb took the position in a printed report that the production-re- 
quirements plan was good, that the people who wanted to put in the 
controlled-materials plan, and he didn't call it by that name, the name 
hadn't been invented, were monopoly minded, and PJVI took up the cry. 

I spend a lot of time trying to sell this woman in here on the idea 
that the controlled-materials plan which was going into effect was 
necessary, that it was better than the production-requirement plan 
and that it was worthy of support, and I went out to Lamb's house one 
night with my associate, who is my superior, Charles Hitch, and 
argued that thing out with Lamb and the fellow named Herb Shimmel. 

Senator Ferguson. Shimmel was there ? What were you trying to 
sell Shimmel? 

Mr. Remington. I was trjdng to sell him on the idea that the so- 
called vertical control of materials was better than the so-called hori- 
zontal control of materials. 

Senator Ferguson. I would like to change the subject as to how long 
you know Shimmel. 

Mr. Remington. I met Shimmel at Lamb's house that night when 
we talked on materials, Shimmel called me again a year or two later 
on some question that I have forgotten what. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you ever give him any information ? 

Mr. Remington. Never. 

Senator Ferguson. If we could have a meeting now of the commit- 
tee 

Mr. Rogers. Could I ask one question ? 

I do not know whether this question has already been answered or 
not, Mr. Remington, but in our previous discussion before the meet- 
ing started this morning, I pointed out to you that the primary 
interest of this committee in this particular matter was the efficiency 
with which the Government is proceeding to rid itself of influences that 
might be subversive, and I asked you if you had any explanation or if 
you thought it was unusual that you got this particular job where you 
had access to all of this valuable military information, at the same time 
that the FBI was investigating you, and as I recall, you told me that 
at the time you got the job you thought it was utterly fantastic. 

]\Ir. Remington. I wouldn't put it quite that way ; I said that 1 
thouglit that it was fantastic that anyone whose loyalty was questioned 
would get such a job, and I assume that my loyalty was no longer 
questioned in view of the fact that I got the job. 

Mr. Rogers. Now, that you find that there is still a question about 
it, and the grand jury is still sitting and has not handed down any 
indictments or decided to adjourn? 

Mr. Re^iington. I shouldn't be in the job. 
^Mr. Rogers. The fact that you got that job still seems fantastic to 
you ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes ; and I would say as long as there is this ques- 
tion about me, I should not act at the Department of Commerce in 



1890 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

the job tliat I hold there, and I just think that it is most unfair to me 
that I sliould have been given that job with this question about my 
loyaky, and certainly I did my best. 

One thing I liave forgotten to mention to you: When I took the 
Commerce job I wrote a letter to the FBI saying that I was taking the 
job, and they had asked me to keep them informed. 

Mr. Rogers. Do you have a copy? 

Mr. Remington. I do. 

Mr. Rogers. Do you have it with you? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Rogers. Yon can supply the committee with that letter. 

Mr. Remington. They askecl me not to get in touch with them before 
taking a job, tliey said "Let us know of your changes in jobs, and 
changes in address," so I wrote them saying I am taking the job. 

Senator Ferguson. Could you wait outside while we have a meeting? 

Senator Tiiye. In order that I may have this clear in my mind, just 
when were you asked to take the assignment that took you to London ? 

Mr. Remin(;ton. That is a tough question. That boiled for several 
months before it finally cooked. 

Senator Thye. What year? 

Mr. Remington. It was in 1945, the matter was active between about 
January 1945 to about July. 

Senator Tiiye. Who communicated with you concerning your assign- 
ment or accepting the assignment to take you to London? 

Mr. Remington. I talked to Thomas Blaisdell about the assignment 
and he talked to the Navy and my superior officers notified me that I 
was to receive orders to go to London. 

Senator Tiiye. You were then in the Navy? 

Mr. Remington. I was then in the Navy. 

Senator Tiiye. How long had you been in the Navy at that time? 

Mr. Remington. I was sworn in as an ensign on active duty on 
September 3, 1944. I had been in a Navy school as a civilian for 5 
months prior to that. 

Senator Tiiye. And you went over while you were still in the 
service? 

Mr. Remington. Yes; that was not unusual. 

Senator Tiiye. As an ensign ? 

Mr. Remington. That is right. There w^as another Navy officer at 
the Embassies at the same time. 

Senator Thye. At the outset of the war, what were you then engaged 
in. or where were you employed? 

Mr- Remington. I left graduate school. 

Senator Thye. What college ? 

Mr. Remington. Columbia University, or I came from Columbia 
University to accept a position with the National Resources Planning 
Board, and I regret to say a New Deal agency, in May of 1940. I 
planned to stay in Washington a couple of years and get out because 
I do not want to be a bureaucrat the rest of my life. 

Senator Thye. Had you been subject to the draft and deferred? 

Mr. Remington. I was deferred for dependencies. , 

Senator Thye. Dependencies? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Thye. Your wife and two children? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1891 

Mr. Remington. Yes, and I was put in lA in about January or 
February of 1944. 

Senator Tiiye. Did anyone have to appeal to the Board in your be- 
half, in order to bring about that deferment ? 

Mr. Remington. No one appealed on the dependency, that would be 
imusuaL 

Senator Tiiye. Did any one request your deferment? 

Mv. Remington. The Government committee on deferments was 
asked whether or not they woukl consider def errinp; me, and the matter 
was not pressed and no deferment was requested of my draft board, to 
the best of my knowledge. 

Senator Thye. In other words, the draft board acted on their own 
initiative and deferred you because of your two dependents and your 
wifei' 

Mr, Remington. Yes. 

Senator Thye. And you proceeded to hold your Federal job up 
until such time as your own enlistment? 

jNIr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Thye. Why did you seek enlistment after you had been 
deferred and that you were occupied in Federal employment ? 

Mr. Remington. Because, sir, I was put in class lA, and I thought 
that I was likely to be drafted and I though that if the time had come 
when the Government wanted me in the services, that is where I 
ouaht to be. 

Senator Tiiye. Did you know Miss Bentley prior to your enlist- 
ment ? 

Mr. Remington. I have never seen Miss Bentley since my enlist- 
ment. 

Senator Thye. But did you know Miss Bentley prior, or Miss John- 
son as she was known to you, prior to your enlistment ? 

Mr. Remington. Prior to my entering the Navy, and only prior to 
my entering the Navy. 

Senator Ferguson. She dropped out of the picture after you went 
into the Navy? 

Mr. Remington. Completely, because I think our last session was a 
little unpleasant. 

Senator Thye. What do you mean, unpleasant ? 

Mr. Remington. I had, as I indicated, slowly become somewhat 
suspicious of her, and I queried her as to why she wanted to know 
certain things- 
Senator Thye. You say it was unpleasant. In what manner was 
it unpleasant? 

Mr. Remington. I was getting a little bit suspicious, sir, and she 
felt I was somewhat unfriendly. It wasn't unpleasant in the sense 
that we came to harsh words, but I was obviously quite resprved and 
she wondered why, and as far as I know, I began to get the import of 
your question, sir, I don't know when she went to the FBI, but I think 
that I saw her last before that, judging from the newspapers, but I 
have no way of knowing that. 

Senator Ferguson. We will see you a little later. 

(Thereupon the subcommittee recessed at 11 : 50 a. m.) 



HEAEINGS EEGARDING COMMUNISM IN THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT— PART 1 



SATURDAY, AUGUST 7, 1948 

United States Senate, 
Investigations Subcommittee, Committee on 
Expenditures in the Executive Departments, 

Washington, D. G. 

EXECUTIVE SESSION 

The subcommittee met at 10 : 30 a. m., pursuant to call, in executive 
session, in room 101, Senate Office Building, Senator Homer Fergu- 
son, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding. 

Present: Senator Homer Ferguson, Republican, Michigan; Sena- 
tor John W. Bricker, Republican, Ohio; Senator Edward J. Thye, 
ReiDublican, Minnesota. 

Also present : William P. Rogers, chief counsel ; Ruth Youn^, clerk. 

(Mr. William W. Remington was present during all of tlie pro- 
ceedings on Saturday morning. ) 

Senator Ferguson. Mr. Barstow, will you raise your right hand ? 
Do you solemnly swear in the matter now pending before this com- 
mittee that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Barstow. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF KOBBINS W. BARSTOW 

Senator Ferguson. Will you state your full name and tell us what 
your business is ? 

Mr. Barstow. Robbins Wolcott Barstow, Jr. I am a public school 
teacher in Niantic, Conn. 

Senator Ferguson. Where were you born ? 

Mr. Barstow. In Woodstock, Vt. 

Senator Ferguson. How long have you been a school teacher ? 

Mr. Barstow. This is my fifth year. 

Senator Ferguson. You ai-e a graduate of what year at Dartmouth? 

Mr. Barstow. I graduated in 1941. 

Senator Ferguson. And in 1941 what did you have to do after 
you left school ? 

Mr. Barstow. I studied for a year at the Hartford Theological 
Seminary, and I worked for a year at a settlement house in New York 
Citv, and then I started teaching at the Manumit School in Pawling. 
N. Y. 

Senator Ferguson. You started to study for the ministry? 

1893 



1894 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator FKWiUsoN. You *j^i\xe that up and went to work? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Fkrguson. Did you f^raduate with honors at Dartmouth? 

Mr. Barstow. I graduated cum hiude. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you know William Remington at Dart- 
mouth ? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes, I did. 

Senator Ferguson. He came in this morning and shook hands with 
you? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. In the room? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. He is in the room now ? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes ; I remember him very well. 

Mr. Remington. I i-emember him, too. 

Senator Ferguson. Now, Mr. Barstow, you went to Dartmouth in 
what year? 

Mr. Barstow. I went to Dartmouth in the fall of 1937, 

Senator Ferguson. How soon after that did you become acquainted 
with William Remington? 

Mr. Barstow. I believe my earliest recollection of knoATing Bill 
was in December of 1937. 

Senator Ferguson. December of 1937 ? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you know under what conditions you met 
him ? 

Mr. Barstow. I am not absolutely certain of the exact time that I 
met him. Would you like me to tell what I can ? 

Senator Ferguson. Yes. 

Mr. Barstow. I remember that in December of 1937 a woman came 
to Dartmouth and gave a lecture on Spain, in which she defended 
the Loyalists as opposed to Franco's rebels. I was interested in the 
lecture and after the lecture I talked with the lady that had given the 
talk, and some other students who were also there. 

I remember talking for a considerable time after that meeting was 
over with Mr. L., who was in the class of 1938, and in talking with him 
he first presented to me the principles of communism and the argu- 
ments against capitalism, I remember his writing on the blackboard 
diagrams showing how capitalism was a bad system that gave profits 
to stockholders that did not work, that it did not make goods for the 
benefit of the people, but simply for profit, and so on. 

That discussion I had with Mr. L. that evening impressed me so 
much that I made notes on it when I got home. My impressions were 
that Bill Remington was also at that meeting and one of the students 
that talked with me after the lecture, although I remember talking 
at this time only Avith Mr. L. about communism. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you recall any conversation with Bill Rem- 
ington about the Lincoln JBrigade and the Spanish question? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. I can remember talking with him about it some 
time later, in particular T remember that in January of 1938 after the 
Cln-istmas vacation I talked with him. 

Senator Ferguson. That is all I will ask at this time. I would 
rather that you keep it. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1895 

Mr. Rogers. Try to keep your recitation chronological, if possible. 

Senator Ferguson. Now, at the time, what else do you recall ? 

Mr. Rogers. What else do you recall at the time you started to relate 
about when you began to talk to Mr. L. ? 

Mr. Barstow. I do not remember anything that happened particu- 
larly in December apart from that. 

Mr. Rogers. In December of 1937? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Mv. Rogers. Did you remember whether you met Mr. Remington 
at that time or not? 

Mr. Barstow. My impression is that I did, and I can not say tor 
certain. 

Mr. Rogers. You are not sure, but you think that you did? 

Mr. B \RSTow. Yes. 

Mr. Rogers. Some time subsequent to that, did you see Mr. Rem- 
ington again ? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes, I remember distinctly that I talked with him in 
January of 1938. 

Senator Johnson. Will you relate that? 

Mr. Barstow. Bill lived at that time in a room on the second floor 
of Crosby Hall. 

Mr. Remington. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Barstow. And I remember very distinctly spending a number 
of evenings in Bill's room, talking with him about communism and 
other matters. 

j\Ir. Remington. Which Bill? 

Mr. Barstow. You. Bill Remington. 

Mr. Rogers. Suppose that you speak to the committee, and we will 
let Mr. Remington talk later. 

Tell us what you recall. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you ever make notes of your conversations 
with Bill Remington? 

Mr. Barstow. At the time I was very much interested in these new 
ideas which were being presented to me, and following my discussion 
with Bill I happened to write down notes on what we had talked about, 
and the things that he had told me, the ideas that he had presented 
to me. 

Senator Ferguson. Could you relate the conversations that yon 
had with Remington without the aid of your notes, or do you wish to 
do it with the aid of your notes? 

Mr. Barstow. I have the notes. 

Mr. Rogers. Suppose you do this, tell us what you remember first, 
and how you happened to go over to Remington's room and every- 
thing that you remember first without the notes, and then we can use 
those, and just relate the story. 

Mr. Barstow. I don't remember precisely why I went over to Rem- 
ington's room. I had met and talked with him before, and with this 
other fellow, Mr. L., and I was interested in talking further with 
them, and they perhaps invited me over. But I do remember talking 
with Bill in his room and he presented the ideas of communism and 
told me why he believed in communism and he told me that he was 
woT-king particularly as a CIO organizer at the time to advance the 
welfare of the workers as his immediate contribution to communism. 



1896 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

I remember questioning him about Russia, and he said tliat he felt 
that Russia had demonstrated the success of communism aaid I asked 
him about the trials and executions which had recently been held in 
Russia, and he maintained vigorously and convincingly that the men 
who were scuttled really were traitors who had been planted in there 
by the enemies of communism, and it was a good thing that they were 
rooted out, and the only thing you could do w^as to kill them. 

I remember asking him about a book by Eugene Lyons, and he said 
that the author was a Red baiter and that that book was not factual 
at all. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you know the name of that book ? 

Mr. Barstow. Not offhand. 

Senator Ferguson. Was it an expose of communism ? 

Mr. Barstow. It was an expose of the trials. 

Senator Ferguson. Of the trials? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Mr. Remington. "Assignment in Utopia." 

Mr. Barstow. That is right, "Assignment in Utopia." I remember 
his telling about the Russian constitution. 

Senator Ferguson. What did he tell you about the constitution ? 

Mr. Barstow. He showed me copies of it, and pointed out, this was 
the new constitution that they had adopted in 11);3G, showing how it 
was a fine document, guaranteeing all of these rights to all people 
of Russia, and so on. 

Senator Brickkr. That is the same constitution Mr. Roosevelt talked 
t o the American people about. That is a side comment. 

Senator Ferguson. Go ahead. 

Mr. Barstow. I remember his telling me, and I was particularly im- 
pressed about this, of his difficulties when he had been workirig as an 
oi'ganizer in Tennessee. 

Senator Ferguson. Will you relate those in detail, if you can ? 

Mr. Barstow. He said that either in the previous summer or during 
the year before he — and I believe his roommate, although I don't 
know just who that was, were attempting to organize workers and 
show them what they could get from a union in Tennessee, this was, 
and they were holding a meeting, or they were distributing leaflets or 
posters about a meeting and they were attacked and driven out of town. 

Then I believe he said thev came back and held the meeting, but the 
manufacturer hired some thugs to come and break up the meeting and 
attack Bill and his roommate, which he said they did, and my recollec- 
tion is they were left for dead or badly beaten up. 

I remember I was particularly impressed by that, because certainly 
it showed that he was just not talking about it, but had been actually 
living and working for the things that he believed in. 

Senator Fergt'son. Did he tell you at any time that he was then 
working for the CIO as an organizer ? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senaor Ferguson. Right at that time ? 

Mr. Barstow. Well, it maj'^ have been that he was in the summer 
before, and he intended to the next summer, and he may not have been 
at that particular time. 

Senator Ferguson. At that particular time at college? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1897 

Senator Ferguson. Had lie ever stated that he worked for the TVA 
in Tennessee ? 

Mr. Barstow. He may have. I don't remember that from my dis- 
cussions with him. 

Senator Ferguson. Go ahead and tell us the story that you recall 
of what Remington told you in college. 

Mr. Barstow. I remember Remington particularly, because he was 
openly and admittedly at college a Communist, and there were three 
boys that I knew during my first years at college who were avowed 
Communists, Bill Remington, Mr. L., and Mr. M. 

Senator Ferguson. Do^you know who roomed with Remington ? 

Mr. Barstow. I have forgotten. 

Senator Ferguson. Was it one of these two boys ? 

Mr. Barstow. My impression is that at one time he roomed with 
Mr. L., but I also know that Mr. L. was married while I was at college 
and I remember visiting him and his wife at another apartment. 

Senator Ferguson. Go ahead, and go back and tell us the whole 
story. Tell us if it was the next year that you had any conversations, 
or do you know when Bill graduated ? 

Mr. Barstow. Bill graduated in June of 1939. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you see him in 1939? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. The year of 1939 ? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Did any of this take place during that year? 

Mr. Barstow. The conversations that I particularly remember took 
place during the winter and spring of 1938, because that was my fresh- 
man year when I first had these contacts with them, and when I was 
interested in listening to them and arguing with them, and they were 
trying to present their case to me. 

It was accepted by the other students at the college, the editoi^s of 
the newspaper, the professors, that these fellows were Communists, 
and we took it for granted and we respected them for the attitude at 
the time and just made good discussion and argument. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you ever have a convei-sation with Mr. 
Remington about George W. Shepherd's speecli at Dartmouth in 
Januaiy of 1938 ? 

Mr. Barstow. I don't remember the exact details of a specific dis- 
cussion with Bill about it. I was instrumental in January of 1938 in 
getting George Shepherd to speak at Dartmouth on the Sino-Japa- 
nese crisis. 

Senator Ferguson. I will show you a letter dated January 6, 1938, 
and see if that will refresh your memory. 

Mr. Barstoav. I have a copy of a letter that I wrote to Mr. Shepherd 
on January 6, 1938, in which I said with regard to his lecture : 

I think there may l)e on the part of a few Communist students who are vitally 
interested in the present situation a slight apprehension of anticommunistic 
presentations, in view of your work in China, and with ttie Chiang Kai-sheks. 

Mr. Rogers. What prompted you to write that ? Do you recall ? 

Mr. Barstow. I am sure that it was discussions with Bill Remington 
and these other two, Mr. L. and Mr. M, about the lectures. They 
were interested in having a speaker on the situation, but they didn't 
want it to be one that would be anticommunistic. 



1898 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Spiiator Ferguson. Do 3-011 remember any more about that? Did 
Dr. Shepherd come and speak? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. Dr. Shepherd came and spoke, and my recollec- 
tion is that we had discussions with him and about this whole matter. 
(The letter is as follows:) 

January 6, 1938. 
Rev. George W. Shepherd, 

American Board, Boston, Mass. 

Dear Mr. Shephb:rd : Thank you for your recent letter. I have gotten in touch 
with Mr. Dickerson and am glad to have things straightened out now. In ac- 
cordance with your telephone conversation this noon with liim, we are making 
arrangements for your visit on Monday the 10th. 

We will arrange to have someone meet you at thr> train, and perhaps you 
would like to eat at the student cooperative eating club, with various members 
of tlie progKim committee. In the afternoon there are a number of students and 
professors who would like to meet and talk to your personally. We are plan- 
ning for as large a meeting as possible in Dartmouth Hall on Monda.v afternoon 
at 4 o'clock, your talk to be followed by interested questions and discussion. 

In the evening we are planniu'.;- to have a smaller discussion meeting of students 
and faculty to stimulate active interest in the present vital needs and possible 
coui'ses of action and to discuss plans for our future program of education and 
aid to China, as I outlined to you before. Unfortunately, on Monday evening, 
we are also joining in sponsoring the showing of the movie The Wave, which 
perhaps you would be interested in seeing, but after the first showing we plan 
to have our meeting, and so should not conflict. 

Being only a member of the committee, and a freshman, I am not in a position 
to tell you more, but I am sure that arrangements witl worli out very satisfac- 
torily for all. I think that there may be on the imrt of a few Comniunist students 
who are vitally interested in the present situation a slight apprehension of anti- 
communistic presentations, in view of your work in China, and with tlie Chiang 
Kai-sheks. Knowing of your position with the American Board, through my 
father, president of the Hartford Seminary, and others, I am, personally confi- 
dent that we will have very stimulating, worth-while, and constructive discus- 
sions in every way, and I Iviiow that your talk to members of the college will 
create an active and constructive interest in the present Sino-Japanese conflict. 

Please let Mr. Dickerson know as to the time of your train arrival, and we 
will arrange further details if and when necessary. 

I remain 

Very sincerely yours. 

Mr. Rogers. Mr. Barstow, you started to relate a little while back 
that Remington was an avowed Communist, and was recognized on 
the campus as such. Do you recall othet conversations or activities 
on his part that bear that out ? 

Senator Ferguson. x\ny organizations that he belonged to or spon- 
sored ? 

Mr. Barstow. Mr. D.. in the class of 19:18, was durino; the year 19?>7 
and 1938 president of the American Student Union. My recollection 
is that Bill Remington and Mr. M. were also active members of the 
ASU at that time. 

I would have to look that up in the college records. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you know whether Mr. M. in 1939 was a past 
president of the ASU? 

Mr. B.vRSTOW. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you know whether Mr. Remington held any 
■position? 

Mr. Barstow. I don't know if Remington held any positions in 
ASU. I would have to look that up. 1 think so. I believe my impres- 
sion is that he did, but that would have to be checked on. 

Senator Ferguson. If he was connected with communism? 



COMMUNISM IX THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1899 

Mr. Barstow. Yes ; we more or less accepted that at least the leaders 
of the American Student Union there at Dartmouth were Communists. 
There were other members who were anxious to work with them on 
things that we all believed in. 

Senator Ferguson. Were you a member? 

Mr. Barstow. I honestly do not remember whether I actu.illy joined 
the ASU myself or not. I attended many of their meetings. 

Senator 1- erguson. You met Remington at those meetings '? 

Mr. Barstow. He was at the meetings, I am sure. 

Senator Ferguson. And do you know whether it had any connection 
with any other Communist front:' 

Mr. Barstow. I know that the ASU was connected with the Ameri- 
can Youth Congress. 

Senator Ferguson. Was there any doubt at that time in your mind 
from whiit Avas said by these men and William Kemington that the 
American Youth Congress was a Communist front? 

Mr. I^AKSTOW. We knew that Communists were active in the xVmeri- 
can Youth Congress, and the ])oint of view you took toward the 
American Youth Congress at that time depended on how seriously you 
considered the threat or danger of Communist control of it. 

Senator Ferguson. Had it any connection with the ASU? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 1 don't know what the exact relationship was. 
I : h(;U'(l thirk it would be a matter of record. The ASU was a mem- 
ber of the American Youth Congrei^s. It was one of the youth organ- 
izations that were a part of it. 

Senator Ferguson. Now, was there an American Youth Congress 
unit at Dartmouth? 

Mr. Barstow. I do not think that they had units. I think that 
the American Youth Congress was a sort of covering organization that 
a lot of different student groups joined in, and it held mass meetings 
and rallies and marches on Washington, and so on. 

]\Ir. Rogers. Mr. Barstow, I think for the purpose of the record 
vre should point out that on August 4 of the year you wrote Senator 
Ives a letter concerning the recent investigation by this committee, 
and I will include the whole thing in the record as part of the record, 
but I want to call your attention to a couple of statements. 

You said : 

I knew William Remington fairly well while we were both iind:n"graflnates at 
Dartmouth, and at the time I knew him there he was an avowed Comiminist. 

Later on you said : 

I have specific comments on Bill's belief in communism, his defense of the 
Moscow trials then going on, his interpretation of the then new Russian Con- 
stitution, and his ideas about his own activities as a Conunuiiist in this country 
at that time. He had spent the previous summer as a CIO organizer, and told 
me how he had been beaten up and left for dead while attempting to organize 
unions down in Tennessee, etc. All of this was part of his avowed advocacy of 
communism for America and the world at that time. 

Do you recall those things : That he did advocate communism and 
that he was a Communist, and he told you that his activities were 
part of his belief, putting his belief into action? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Have you any notebook here, and we will mark 
that notebook "Exhibit No. 2." Have you a notebook here? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 



1900 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Senator Ferguson. We will mark that as "Exhibit No. 2." Now, 
will you read your notes out of your notebook that you took down 
when you had conversations with William Remin^on? 

(Mr. Barstow's 1937-88 college notebook regarding Mr. Remington 
marked "Exhibit No. 2.") 

Mr. Barstow. I kept this notebook during m}' freshman year at 
college, and reported in it. 

Senator Ferguson. Does it show on the back that you would grad- 
uate in 1941, and that the year for which the notes were made was the 
term of 1937-38? Will you read on the back of the notebook and tell 
us what there is on there ? 

Mr. Barstow. It is on the cover: "Bobbins Barstow, '41, 210 Ripley 
Hall, Hanover, N. H., 1937-38." 

Senator Ferguson. Will you read the Remington notes, and read 
all of it? 

Mr. Barstow. Under the heading of January 5 to 6, et cetera, I 
have these notes : 

Disc-iissions with Rill Remington. Tall fellow, slow and deliberate and quiet 
talker. Bright and astute, but I wonder if not more one-sided than he admits. 
and sometimes his attitude antagonizes me. Slightly intolerant and too sure of 
own convictions? Are all of his statements, general and particular, true? 

Communism economicall.v supported and striven for by Bill, and now working 
for CIO for immediate ends of workers' welfare. 

Communism system of maximum production and consumption. Payment not 
in money and high capital, etc., profits, but in balanced goods all around, gov- 
ernmentally controlled. Personal advancement and higher wages and homes, 
etc.. for ability. But all one together, etc. 

Capitalism inherent evils of depressions, worse and worse, overproduction 
and lay-offs, etc. 

Bill was working with roommate distributing posters to mill woi'kers in 
Tennessee, announcing meeting. Attacked; got away. Held organizing meeting 
showing workers they were underpaid and how could get better. Employer 
looked out window and saw and hired 15 thugs to kill him. He was attacked 
and badly slugged, left for dead(?) Roommate's back broken, etc. Although 
this only happened a couple of times in his six CIO months. 

Labor at least has not hired trained thugs to kill organizers and wreck 
things, etc. 

NLRB's accusations against Ford probably true, because it's pretty cagey and 
not stick neck out if not sure. 

Senator Ferguson. What is that. Ford? 

Mr. Barstow. Capital F-o-r-d. That is Henry Ford. 

Senator Ferguson. Henry Ford Motor Co.? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. In Michigan? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Russian communism a success. Russia gone further in last 20 years than any 
other country. New constitution, etc. The men executed were mostly really 
very dangerous to the Government and put there in definite attempt to wreci< 
the s.vstem. 

Communists and Russia only really active ones aiding China now. 

Senator Ferguson. Those are the notes that you took? 

Mr. Barstow. Those are the notes that I took on those discussions, 
and there is one other note that might be of interest later on in this 
book. 

Senator Ferguson. What is it? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1901 

Mr. Barstow (reading) : 

But liill Remington suggests that modern college young people can hardly 
help dissipating and going wild, etc., unless they have some active interest 
which keeps them going strong. 

Senator Ferguson. Is that communism tliat he was talking about? 

Mr. Barstow. It could have been communism or some other activity. 
It Avas student activities and meetings and work for causes. 

Senator Thye. Mr. Chairman, I would be interested just in knowing 
what other types of notes you kept other than the notes that referred 
to ^Ir. Remington. Not much of it, but I would be interested just in 
seeing a couple of statements. 

Senator Fergusox. Did you take any notes from Mr. L. ? 

Mr. Barptow. Yes : I have some notes earlier. 

Senator Ferguson, In the same book? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. That is exhibit 2? 

Mr, Barstow\ Yes. This is at the very beginning of the book, 
December 10, 1937, under the heading of communism. 

From a talk with Mr. L. — ''althcnigh I know that that was a mistake. It was 
the first time that I talked with liim and I got his name wrong here, and it should 
be Mr. L., as I have in the lat^r notes about him" — president of Dartmouth Ameri- 
can Stu.dent Union, after talk by Miss Herbst on Spain. 

There are two or three pages here. 

Senator Thye. The only reason I asked that question is because 
I wanted to see the variety of subjects that you might have referred to 
in your notes, to satisfy my own mind that you were not a crank 
in certain questions, that you just ke])t notes on those questions ra- 
ther than take the whole activity within your school life as a general 
thing. 

Senator Ferguson. Are there any other notes? 

Mr. Barstow, I can read several to you. 

Senator Thte, You do not have to read them, but I was just curious 
to know whether you kept a rather complete memo of everything that 
transpired in your school life, or whether you have just picked out 
the subject of communism and then registered that in your memory 
books. 

Mr. Barstow. Let me read you a few brief selections from other 
places. 

Senator Thye. Not more than two paragraphs, just enough so that 
we see what the variety might be. 

Senator Ferguson, Go ahead. 

Mr. Barstow (reading) : 

Sunday evening, December 12, 1937. I should be going to hed now at 11 p. m.. 
but I have got so many thoughts to write up I hardly know where I am at, and 
it is now or never. I have been getting crammed with new ideas lately, and 
so forth. 

Senator Thye, That is all that I wanted to know, I just wanted 
to see that, 

Mr. Barstow. IVIay I read two more? 

Nazi discussion with Heinze, German student who is a member of the Nazi 
Party— 

and I had discussions with him. 

Senator Ferguson. You discussed nazism with him? 

670.52— 50— pt. 1 14 



1902 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Barstow. Yes; and then there is another one here : 

Talk by INIr. Cliaiiiberljiin in chapel toward a happier New York. How to 
get happiness. 

Senator Ferguson, I show you another exhibit, exhibit 3, and we will 
mark this envelope, and ask you to read that into the record. What 
is on the back and what is on the front? 

(Envelope addressed to Robbins Barstow. from Remington, post- 
marked December 26, 1937, was marked ''Exhibit No. 3.") 

Mr. Barstow. This is an envelope which I happen to have among my 
papers, addressed to Robbins Barstow, 165 Elizabeth Street, Hart- 
ford, Conn., and it is dated December 26, 1937, and postmarked New 
York, and the return address in the upper left-hand corner is 
"Remington, 836 East Riclgewood Avenue, Ridgewood, N. J." 

Senator Ferguson. Does it bear the word "over" written on it in 
pencil ? 

Mr. Barstow. It has "over" on it, and these notes on the back: 
"China- Japan Program, ASU, et cetera. Bill's outline, and EPC infor- 
mation." That means emergency peace campaign information, and 
China letters, et cetera, booklets." 

Senator Ferguson. Do you know what was in the envelope? Does 
that refresh your memory ? 

Mr. Barstow. I had in this envelope my correspondence with re- 
gard to the talk with INIr. George Shepherd at Dartmouth on January 
10. 

Senator Ferguson. Which we made an exhibit here. 

Mr. Barstow\ And other materials on China, some, particularly, 
gotten out by the emergency peace campaign, the crisis in the Orient, 
and I am quite sure that this "Bill's outline" refers to an outline sent 
me by Bill Remington. 

Senator Ferguson. On what question ? 

Mr. Barstow. With regard to this China-Japanese program that 
we are trying to liandle in this talk about it, and it was from that that 
I assumed that I got concerned with regard to some Communist stu- 
dent not wanting the talk to be anticommunistic. 

Mr. Rogers. Do you recall, Mr. Barstow, any time after 1938 during 
the year of 1939 when Mr. Remington to your knowledge changed his 
views about communism ? 

Mr. Barstow. No; I do not. During his senior year, 1938 to 
1939, at Dartmouth, he was a senior and he had an office in Baker 
Library, where he did his own research and studying as piirt of the 
program set up by the college. 

I remember talking with him at different times in his office in the 
Baker Library, and I do not remember any expressed change in his 
viewpoint with regard to communism or his own activities. 

Mr. Rogers. For your entire college career, your acquaintance with 
Remington, it demonstrated to you that he was an avowed Communist, 
actively following the Communist Party and working in its behalf? 

Mr. Barstow. The reason that I can remember so clearly and dis- 
tinctly about this is that I was so impressed by his being an avowed 
Comnuniist, by the talks that I had with him about it at college, and 
I had no further contact with him after lie left college in 1939 until I 
saw his picture and read his name in the newspaper in connection with 
these hearings. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1903 

Senator Ferguson. Do you know of any discussion that you had 
with him as to where he acquired tliis ideology ^ 

jNIr. Bakstow. No; 1 do not remember. 1 imagine that I must have 
talked with him about why be became a Communist or how he became 
one, but 1 do not remember the details of it, and 1 wish that I did. 

Mr. Rogers. Mr. Barstow, I want to go back to your last answers 
where you said the tirst time that you recalled these meetings with 
Kemington was when you saw his name in the paper, and I want to 
call your attention to the last paragTaph in your letter in which you 
say in the letter which is already in the record: 

As I told you, I don't know if Bill is still a Communist or not, although I 
doubt if, once convinced, he would change his mind, strong and keen as it is. 
I am concerned, however, al)out his reported denials of earlier Connnunist 
leanings, activities, and associations. These I know to be at variance with 
the truth. If he had admitted having been a Communist at college, it would be a 
different situation. But I do feel it to he very important not to allow this one- 
time avowed Comnnmist, if he still is one, to further endanger the security of the 
United States and our Government. 
Very sincerely yours, 

RoBBiNs W. Barstow. Jr. 

Does that express your feeling at the time you saw the story about 
our hearings, and that is, that is what motivated you to write this 
letter ? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes ; it is. I would have nothing against Bill if he 
admitted being a Connnunist at college. There were, as I said, other 
students that were, and it is something that an intelligent young per- 
son might go through during his education at any college, but the 
thing that distressed me and prompted me to write to you was his 
reported denials of having been a Communist, of which I knew. 

Senator Ferguson. I just want certain things out of this book, 
which will be exihibit 4, which is "Dart," the winter of 1938. 

Will you describe that ^ It is the undergi-aduate magazine of writ- 
ing; in Dartmouth College ; is that right ? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. It is volume 10, No. 1. 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. New Myths in the Southland, by William Rem- 
ington, page 19. That is on the first page. You are familiar with 
that? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Then on page 14 is this : 

William Remington. '39 (p. 19), skipped school last year to work for the TVA 
in the Tennessee Valley. 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. You are familiar with that? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Then on page 19, that is the article which we will 
make a part of this record. You are familiar with that? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes ; I am. I might say that I think it is a very good 
article. 

Senator Ferguson. I do not have anything on that. It is not the 
facts that are in the article, exactly, while they are material to some 
of the views now taken, but it is a question that he was at the TVA, 
and so forth. He has asked me to ask you, is the article communistic ? 



1904 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Barstow, I would say no. A Communist could have written it, 
but the article as it stands is not communistic. Anyone who was not 
a Communist could have written it, too, and I wish that I could have 
written it. 

Senator FERGI^^()N. I see, you think it is a very cleverly written ar- 
ticle. He is or was an excellent writer? 

Mr. Barstow. It is a very well written article. He is or was an 
excellent writer. 

Senator Ferguson. I notice that it closes with this language : 

However, that may be, these observers claim that when the people make social 
welfare a public cause, it is nearer true democracy than Wilkie's rugged in- 
dividualism that is determined to have its own way and knife the will of Con- 
gress. 

Do you know what he was talking about when he said "and knife the 
will of Congress?" 

Mr. Barstow. I think he meant that Wendell Willkie and the pub- 
lic utilities that were opposing the TVA were attempting to knife the 
will of Congress in setting up the TVA. 

That is, Congress wanted to establish the TVA, and Willlrie was 
opposing it and thereby knifing the will of Congress at that time. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you know whether or not public ownership 
was being advocated by Communists in America at that time as part 
of their policy ? 

Mr. Barstow. Oh, yes; I think that public ownership has always 
been advocated as part of Communist policy, and it is also a part of 
Socialist policy, although under more democratic control or auspices, 
presumably, and also of course, there are some projects of public 
ownership that are advocated by the Democratic and Republican Par- 
ties today, in their platforms. 

Senator Ferguson. Now, the words are "nearer true democracy." 
Do you know whether the Communist line back at that time was using 
the words "True democracy," as describing communism? 

Mr. Barstow. I think that they always have maintained that com- 
munism was the truest democracy. 

Senator Ferguson. In other words, American democracy was not 
described by the Communists as true democracy. 

Mr. Barstow. No. 

Senator Ferguson. They had what they called true democracy? 

Mr. Bastow. Yes. 

Senator Fergusox. Is that correct? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. We will make the book an exhibit. Would you 
care to leave that book with us, and also the envelope and the other? 

Mr. Barstow. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Have you any other knowledge about this 
matter ? 

Mr, Barstow. My recollection is that during the 2 years when I 
was a student at Dartmouth at the same time that Remington was, 
he wrote some letters to the college newspaper, the Daily Dartmouth, 
that were published in the Letters to the Editor column, and I 
cannot say for sure, but I think that there is a possibility that a 
search through tlie files of the Daily Dartmouth during those 2 years 
might turn up some letters from Bill which could give an indication 



COMJVIUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1905 

of his Communist ideas and principles at that time. I cannot say 
for certain. 

Senator Ferguson. Is that all you remember, now ? Does reading 
this notebook again into the record refresh your memory on any 
items ? 

Mr. Barstow. No ; I think that is all. 

Senator Ferguson. Mr. Remington, do you have any other ques- 
tions ? 

Mr. Remington. Well, sir, I hope very much before you close this 
session that we will have perhaps 5 or 10 minutes in which I would 
like 

Senator Ferguson. Do you want to testify further? 

Mr. Remington. I would like to testify for just a minute, but before 
reaching the end of the session I would like to talk with you, sir, 
AA'ith you about some very cold turkey about where we go from here. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you want to talk with the committee in the 
])resence of Mr. Barstow? 

Mr. Remington. Oh, surely. It makes no difference. I think that 
it miglit be educational to him, if he will keep it confidential. 

Senator Ferguson. I do not want to have that agreement. 

Mr. Remington. It is O. K. witli me, to talk with him here. 

Senator Ferguson. Suppose that you leave the room, Mr. Barstow, 
if you want to discuss something w^ith us. Just leave the room and 
wo will let Mr. Remington discuss it with the committee. 

Mr. Remington. I would like to talk about what he said. 

Senator Ferguson. He will come back. 

Mr. Remington. When Mr. Barstow comes back I am going to say 
that he w^astes his nonsense, but we will leave that aside for the moment. 
I am going over with you the honors that I got from the college 
administration during this period. I thought there would be some- 
body here who could really embarrass me, but he cannot. I will talk 
about that when he is here. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM W. REMINGTON— Resumed 

Senator Ferguson. Were you a Communist at Dartmouth? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir; but let us talk about that when he comes 
back. 
' Senator Ferguson. Did you work for the TVA ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. And while you w^ere at the TVA, you were an 
organizer for the CIO? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. However, my roommate w^as. 

Senator Ferguson. Who was your roommate ? 

Mr. Remington. The roommate that he is talking about was a fellow 
I roomed with for about 3 or 4 weeks, named Todd, and he was a CIO 
organizer, and I went with him on one trip and I did get beat up, but 
that was 

Senator Ferguson. You never represented the CIO? 

Mr. Remington. I talked at many, many CIO meetings in connec- 
tion with an education project that I was working on. 

Senator Ferguson. Down in the Tennessee Valley? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. This is all a matter of record. 

Senator Ferguson. It is not in our record. 



1906 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remington. Well, sir, can we lay that aside until Mr. Barstow 
comes Ijack ? 

Senator Fp:rguson. Wait a moment. You did talk at many of the 
CIO meetings? 

Mr. Remington. Oh, yes; I was very much interested in labor 
unions. 

Senator Ferguson. You were or were not paid in money from the 
CIO as an organizer or in any other category ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir, I never received a cent from the CIO, 
although I did apply for a little money but I never got it. 

Senator Ferguson. What do you mean, "applied"? 

Mr. Remington. I asked them if they would take me on their rolls 
for a few weeks, but they wouldn't do it. 

Senator Ferguson. How many meetings would you say that you 
talked to down in Tennessee? 

Mr. Remington. CIO meetings? Half a dozen. 

Senator Ferguson. Well, were these organization meetings? 

Mr. Remington. That I don't remember. 

Senator Ferguson. Were they attempts to get members? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir, I talked to meetings of unions that were 
already established. I talked on the Court-packing bill to some of 
them. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you advocate the Court-packing bill ? 

Mr. Remington. I think that I did, sir. I am sorry to have advo- 
cated it. I now think it was a mistake, but I did advocate it at the 
time. I was in the company of some others in advocating it but 

Senator Ferguson. Now, you go ahead on what you want to say to 
the committee. 

Mr. Remington. Well, sir, I would like to, I don't want to raise 
again the question of whether I am innocent or not. I have tried to 
prove I am innocent and I don't know whether I have succeeded or not, 
but quite apart from that I plan to leave the Federal Government as 
rai)idly as I decently can, and the reason I plan to leave the Federal 
Government is because in these times I feel strongly that anyone about 
whom there are questions, serious questions raised, should not be in a 
position where people have to worry, whether the questions are true 
or not. 

Besides, there is the question of personal embarrassment. My use- 
fulness to the Government is ended. 

Now, sir, I am going to try to get out as soon as possible, and I guess 
it is between me and the Loyalty Board as to what kind of circum- 
stances I get out under. 

Senator Ferguson. You have in mind resigning before the trial 
of the Loyalty Board? 

Mr. Remington. Oh, no, sir. I am going througli with the trial, 
and I am going to push it just as best I can right to the top, because 
I want some kind of clearance before I get out of the Federal Govern- 
ment, and then I am going to resign. 

Now, I hope that this ju'ccess comes as quickly as possible. I am 
being very candid with you gentlemen, although this is probably 
against my interests to be so candid. But I Avant you to know where 
I stand. 

Now, if any of you feel 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1907 

Mr. Rogers. Why is tliat aoainst j^oiir interests? Why would being 
so candid liave tliat effect with us? 

Mr. Remington. Because I don't think I should admit to anybody 
(hat I plan to resign. 

Mv. Rogers. You said that in public. 

Mr. Remington. That is what I say. I don't think that I should. 

Mr. Rogers. Your openness does not ring true, because you have 
told evei'vbody that. 

Mr. Remington. I have not said it for publication, 

Mr. Rogers. My recollection is that you said it on the stand the 
other day. 

Mr. Remington. I did not recall that. 

Mr. Rogers. Have you made any statement now about what this 
man says about you ? 

Mr. Remington. I would rather wait until he gets back. 

Now, what I want to ask is whether or not this subconnnittee wants 
to go further with the question of my loyalty or wdiether you w'ant 
to confine yourselves to the question of how in the name of the dickens 
I got the jobs I got with these questions that exist. 

Senator Ferguson. We are vitally interested in how you got the 
jobs, and we are also interested in whether or not you told us the 
truth, which now goes to your loyalty. 

Senator Thte. Mr. Chairman, I would suggest to Mr. Remington 
that if he knows his record is so crystal clear, and lily white, then 
he should write a letter to the President and beg of the President 
that all facts within the files that are within the various departments 
that have to do with this loyalty check be made available to this 
committee, because only in that manner can this committee once and 
for all time come to satisfy ourselves that there is nothing in the files 
that would cast a suspicion upon the truthfulness of your statement, 
and if you were to write such a letter to the President, and after 
having given the President due time to receive the letter, you then 
made it public, then I think that we at least as members of the com- 
mittee w^ould have a greater confidence in what you have already 
stated to the connnittee then we have at the present time, when every 
avenue is closed to us, and we do not know what are in the official 
files. 

Mr. Remington. This is what I really wanted to get to. It hap- 
pens that I have already talked to Mr. Rogers about something similar, 
and Mr. Rogers has wanted to make it very clear that it was my idea, 
which I mentioned first. What I had in mind was to get out just a 
little statement to the press, saying I hoped certain information would 
be made available to the committee, and I just have no judgment as to 
which is better, a letter to the President or just a statement. 

I want to do it in the way which is most likely to get the information 
before the committee. 

Now, I suppose that I have to reach my judgment on that, and it 
would be somewhat improper for me to consult with the committee. 

Senator P^erguson. We would not care to consult with you on that, 
because I think that is a matter that you have to make your judg- 
ment on. 

Mr. Remington. Because I want to get information to this com- 
mittee, and I don't want to come out and clash with the President on 



1908 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

tlie question of what kind of records should be made available to 
Con<2:ress <^enerally, but I would like to see the records on me presented. 

Senator Ferguson. Because you are interested in knowing how you 
could be transferred from one job to another? 

Mr. Remington. I think it is outrageous. I really do, from my own 
personal point of view, as well as from the point of view of the Gov- 
ernment. If I had been told a year ago by Steelman or somebody like 
that, presumably somebody I knew, that there were serious questions 
about me, I would have very gladly stepped out of the picture. 

Senator Ferguson. You would be greatly surprised, would you not, 
if it was the contention that Steelman or someone under him had really 
forced you out because of your activities, and then you could go into 
the Economic Advisory Board in the EGA Board, over to the 
Gommerce ? 

Mr. Remington. If there was any contention that Steelman forced 
me out because he was suspicious of me, I would know it was just sheer 
falsehood. 

Senator Ferguson. But if he did do that, you would be surprised 
that you could take the other three jobs ; would you not? 

Mr. Remington. Of course. 

Mr. Rogers. I would like to say for the record, so that there will be 
no misunderstanding along the lines of Senator Thye's comment, Mr. 
Remington spoke to me on the phone the other night, along the same 
lines, saying that he thought it was unfair to him personally not to 
make the records available, because he thought it was unfair to him 
for people in government, if they had been put on notice of this in- 
vestigation, to have given him these jobs, so he said. 

Senator Ferguson. That is what I was getting at by my question. 

Mr. Rogers. What he said to me was that he thought that the com- 
mittee's interest was of paramount importance in the examination of 
how it happened that our Government would permit this, and that he 
had a personal interest which was in conformity with our interest 
because he thought it was unfair to him as an individual. 

He asked me what I thought about writing a letter, asking that all 
of these records be made available, and I told him at that time that I 
did not w\Tnt to advise him, that I thought it was all right because it 
was certainly in line with our thinking, but I wanted it clear that that 
suggestion came from him, and I would not want it to appear that our 
committee was suggesting to Mr. Remington that he write certain 
letters and make certain statements to the press. 

I want that clear in the record. That is accurate, is it not? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, that is accurate, and I want to be very anxious 
to cooperate on this thing, because it is so darned important to the 
future of the Government. 

Senator Ferguson. That is why the Chair advises you that the 
committee would feel that you should make up your own mind on that 
question. 

Mr. Remingtox. I will make up my own mind on the question and 
do something today and Mr. Rogers will know what I will do, because 
I will tell him. 

Senator Ferguson. If it will be in writing, will you give us a copy? 

Mr. Remington. It will be in writing, and you will know what I do, 
sir. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1909 



am 



Now, personally, I am in a very real sense kind of washed out. I fi 
o-oin^r out of Government and I don't expect to find a job except drivmg 
t taxi or something like that, for quite a while. My net assets will be 
$800 or $900, because in this last few years I have spent over $5,000 on 
tlie question of my wife's illness, and she is in mental care, but I am 
not worried about myself, particularly, although in a couple of years 
when tliis thing simmers down, I may ask one of you gentlemen to tell 
me exactly what you think. It might be helpful to me. 

But the issue that counts is whether or not the procedures of the 
Government are adequate, and now, beyond that, I think we have set- 
tled that, and I am going to write something which you will know 
about, and beyond that I am curious to know how much of a stigma 
I am going to carry with me when I leave the Federal service. 

I have been devoted to the Federal service, and I think that none of 
you have any question about my devotion during the last three yeare, 
and you probably know if you have read the records what hours I have 
worked for the Federal Government and how much I have put in on it. 

Now, I don't want to ask this committee for any kind of a statement 
at all, but after January I may. 

Now, I think that that tiiiished everything that I want to say. 

Senator Ferguson. What do you say about the Barstow statement ? 

]Mr. Rogers. Do you want him to come in 1 

Mr. Remington.' I think it would be fair to him. 

Mr. Rogers. Just before we leave that last point, I do not want that 
to stand as though the committee has given any assent to your last re- 
quest, because I will tell you frankly, and this is not the committee's 
judgment, but I do not think that you ever have been frank with us, 
and I do not think that you have been honest with us, and I do not 
think that you were when you testified in public session. 

Personally, I have no judgment on your present feelings, but I do 
not think that you made a full disclosure of your past. 

Mr. Remington. I did, sir. 

]Mr. Rogers. You could have been very helpful to the Government 
if you wanted to be, and I do not think that you have been. I think 
that you are a very clever fellow, and I think that you succeeded in 
giving the impression that you are being forthright and honest when 
you are not at all. It is a clever device on your part to disguise the 
true facts. So if you stand on your present position, do not tell what 
I consider to be the truth, certainly if I am here the first of January 
you can never ask me for any help, because, frankly, I do not believe 
you. 

Mr. Remington. You have told me that, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. Mr. Remington, how do you account for the 
fact that you did leave out of your public employment with the Gov- 
ernment the TVA job ? How do you account for that ? 

Mr. Remington. Certainly I did not desire to conceal it, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. Well, we never had it. 

Mr. Remington. I just don't know. I worked for the TVA as a 



messenger. 



Senator Ferguson. It is very important that you had a Federal job 
and it was left out entirely. 

Mr. Remington. I am sorry, sir. I just forgot it. I worked as a 
messenger while I was still at college, and I certainly testified to it 



1910 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

many, many times. I testified to my TVA employment many times, 
and it appears in all of the statements? 

Senator Ferguson. You mean before the FBI ? 

Mr. Kemington. Yes, and thinos of that sort. 

Senator Ferguson. It was entirely out of our record until it came 
in this morning. 

Do you have any questions that you want to ask through the com- 
mittee of Mr. Barstow? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you want to make a statement in relation to 
Mr. Barstow's testimony ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Will you proceed with that ? 

Mr. Remington. First, I want to say that I have constantly and 
freely admitted to this committee that when I was in college I asso- 
ciated very openly with leftists, and I have said that in statements 
to the FBI and in the statement which I have filed with the Loyalty 
Board, that I thiidv some of those leftists were actually members of the 
YCL, but I am not sure enough to swear that they were. 

Now, there is no question but what some of these persons with whom 
I associated advocated particular C-ominunist doctrines. There is no 
question whatsoever of that. Now, there is a question of what I 
myself advocated. I advocated or I said several times, as I recall, 
that I thought the Moscow trials which Mr. Barstow has referred to 
were in a very real sense legitimate. That was a guess. 

Mr. Joseph Davis, who I believe was an Ambassador of some kind, 
made the remark when the war began that he now understood the 
Moscow trials, and thought that the trials had in fact cleaned out a 
real fifth column. 

Mr. Rogers. Would you mind not elaborating, tell us what your 
answers are to Mr. Barstow's testimony? We appreciate these things 
and we are not listening to an argument and we want to know what 
you have to say about what Mr. Barstow says. He says j^ou were a 
Communist and you advocated communism and that you were an open 
and avowed Communist; that you tried to tell him that he should 
become a Communist and now, what do you have to say about that? 

Senator Ferguson. And why bring in Davis' statement, that has 
nothing to do with it. He did not mention Davis. 

Mr. Remington. He mentioned Moscow trials. 

Mr. Rogers. Confine yourself to what he says. 

Mr. Rejmington. First I was not a member of any Communist organ- 
ization at Dartmouth College. 

Mr. Rogers. Were you ever an officer of the student union? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Rogers. Any office in it ? 

Mr. Remington. Not that I know of, sir. 

Mr. Rogers. Or a member ? 

Mr. Remington. No; sir; I have said that I have been associated 
with the ASTT members; that I have worked with them, and I have 
roomed Avith them. 

Mr. Rogers. Were they Communists? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Rogers. Was it Communist dominated ? 



COMMUNISM IX THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1911 

Mr. Remixgtox. Sir, at Dartmouth, I am not even sure that there 
■were any real Connnunists, any Communist Party members. 

Mr. Rogers. Was the ASU Communist dominated? Did it follow 
the party line? 

Mr. Reimixgtox. Naturally, I feel that the National ASU was Com- 
munist dominated by real Communists. 

Senator P^ergusox. And it followed the Communist line? 

]\Ir. Remixgtox. I believe it did. 

Mr. Rogers. Here is a man who says that you are a Communist and 
you told him you were a Communist and you told him that you 
believed in communism and you had advocated communism and that 
you worked for connnnnism while you were in college. 

Can you explain why you were working for communism and in 
what way, and what do you have to say about that? 

Mr. Remixgtox. I have said, sir, that I was not a Communist, and 
I belonged to no Communist organizations, and now, sir, there are 
many things which I did advocate; first, I said that I thought the 
Moscow trials were genuine, probably Davis said the same. 

Senator Fergusox. Why bring Davis into it ? 

Mv. Remixgtox. Because I wasn't alone in saying that ; non-Com- 
munists said that, too. He used that as an indication that I am a 
Communist and I say it is not an indication that I am a Connnunist, 
and I defined connnnnism probably many times but I don't know 
whether I defined connnnnism to Barstow or not. I am not sure 
whether my definitions were right or not. Barstow's notes on this 
point — Barstow was very young and I have great respect for him in 
many ways, but he was very young, and so was I ; not quite so young. 

Third, Barstow has said that I was an avowed Communist; just 
generally speaking, I say that I was not. I avowed many individual 
things, many specific ideas like a rich man has no more chance of 
getting into heaven as a camel of getting through the eye of a needle 
in advocating some income-tax laws. 

Senator Fergusox. Who paid your tuition at college? 

Mr. Remixgtox. I got a large part of my tuition on scholarship, and 
I earned a very great deal of money myself. 

Senator Fergusox. Did your parents pay any of your tuition and 
rOom and so on? 

Mr. Remixgtox. They contributed between a third and a half of 
my college expenses. 

Senator Fergusox. And your father worked for it ? 

Mr. Remixgtox. Yes. 

Senator Fergusox. And the other was a scholarship. Who gave 
you the scholarship ? 

Mr. Remixgtox. Sir, are we debating income taxes ? 

Senator F'ergusox. No ; I want to know who gave you the scholar- 
ship. 

Mr. Remixgtox. Some very generous men contributed money to 
T)artmouth. 

Senator Fergusox. Who ? 

Mr. Remix'gtox. I don't know their names. The college had the 
fund available. 

Senator Fergusox. Did they make their money that they gave to 
the college out of the capitalistic system ? 



1912 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Remington. They did, sir, and I am happy to say that they 
did. At that time, sir, I was not an enthusiastic supporter of capital- 
ism, I was a critic of many phases of the capitalistic system, just as — 
maybe in that I was misled, but there are many other critics of in- 
dividual phases of the capitalistic system. 

No; I advocated at college many rather sweeping social reforms, 
and I was never an actual Communist, altliough I talked a great deal. 

Mr. Rogers. What is the distinction in your mind between an actual 
Communist and what you did ? 

Mr. Remington. The distinction is whether a person really believes 
in the Communist doctrines, which are, as I see it, revolution, dictator- 
ship of the proletariat, and membership in organizations committed 
to revolution and dictatorship of the proletariat, and to say I was in- 
volved in tliat thing is sheer and utter nonsense. 

Senator Ferguson. That is why you draw the distinction ? 

Mr. Remington. Advocacy of revolution, advocacy of dictatorship 
of the proletariat. 

Mr. Rogers. You say Mr. Barstow is not telling the truth ? 

Mr. Remington. I say he is telling the truth as he sees it, and he 
was probably 16 at the time and when I talked about doctrinal Utopian 
pliilosophy and things of that sort which college students talk about 
all hours of the night, he wrote down what he wrote down. 

Senator Tiiye. Let us compare the ages of these two men. He 
refers to this young man as being 16 in college, and now let us have the 
ages of both of you men at that specific year. 

Mr. Remington. I was 18, and I said I was very young. 

Senator Thte. Let us have Mr, Barstow's age, 

Mr. Remington. I may have been 19 ; I was 19 by the spring of that 
year. 

Senator Ferguson, How old were you, Barstow? 

Mr. Barstow. I was 18 in January of 1938. 

Mr. Rogers. How old are you now, Mr. Remington? 

Mr. Remington. I am 30. 

Mr. Rogers. How old are you, Mr. Barstow ? 

Mr. Barstow. I am 28. 

Mr. Rogers. What is your birthday ? 

Mr. Barstow. October 24, 1919. 

Mr. Rogers. What is your birthday. 

Mr. Remington. October 25, 1 will be 31. 

Mr. Rogers. There is 2 years difference. 

Mr. Remington. You are dealing with a person here who has a very 
good memory, and I think that you liave got to recognize in dealing 
with him that he has only a fair memory. 

Senator Ferguson. Wait a minute. Do you think that is a fair 
criticism ? 

Senator Tiiye. I would like to make this comment. I have recog- 
nized the keenness of your memory, and that is wliy I am so critical 
of the manner that you have answered these questions. You have 
evaded the point time after time and you are not telling the truth so 
that we can have any confidence in your statement; and when you say 
this man here has a very weak memory, and you have an exceedingly 
good memory, that is the reason that I call to your attention that you 
do not use your memory at times in answering these questions. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1913 

Mr. Remington. May I continue : He said I roomed with Mr. L. 
I never roomed with L. 

Senator Ferguson. He did not say that. 

Mr. Rogers. He did not say he was sure, he said that he thought 
he might have. Go ahead. 

Mr. Remington. He mentioned, or he said, "I worked 6 months as a 
CIO organizer. That is not true. It happens there was a man at 
Dartmouth College who did work for 6 months as a CIO organizer 
and I think he has got us mixed up. 

Mr. Rogers. You never did work as a CIO organizer? 

Mr. Remington. No. I said that I worked for the TVA, that I 
made at least six talks, or at least half a dozen talks, before CIO 
unions. 

Mr. Rogers. Did you tell him about being beaten up one time? 

Mr. Remington. I did, sir. 

Mr. Rogers. What is the important discrepancy? I don't see any 
discrepancy of any consequence. 

Mr. Remington. He said I was a CIO organizer, and. I wasn't, 
and he said I 

Mr. Rogers. He has a note written down here, and he says, ''Bill 
is working for communism; economically supported by and striven 
for by Bill.'' 

Now, he wrote that down at the time of the conversation. And 
that is i)robably better than your memory, as good as you claim it 
was. What do you have to say about that ? Is that a true statement? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir; that is his interpretation. 

Mr. Rogers. And you never did economically support it or strive 
for communism ? 

Mr. Remington. I strove for many things and I can name them. 
I can name the things that I strove for. Do you want me to do it? 

Senator Ferguson. Yes ; do it. 

Mr. Remington. I strove for aid for Spain which he has men- 
tioned, and I strove for aid to China and I was critical of Chiang 
Kai-shek, but I think that he talked me into hearing his speaker and 
I have rather friendly reactions toward that speaker, and I 

Senator Ferguson. You did not even want to hear that speaker, 
did you ? 

Mr. Remington. Sir, I did. He has gotten that reference which he 
made there rather elliptical and it doesn't refer to me. 

Mr. Rogers. You have told us two things, and we want you to 
name some of the other things. Do you believe in the Russian 
Constitution ? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Rogers. So when he testified to that, he is not telling the 
truth? 

Mr. Remington. You will always look for black and white. There 
are many things 

Mr. Rogers. I am trying to get something definite out of you, be- 
cause you beat around the bush as much as any witness that I have 
ever seen in my life. 

Mr. Remington. One reason I beat around the bush is because I 
happen in this case — let us use this case specifically — I happen to 
kiiow that some of our 



1914 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mv. Rog?:rs. Let us f^et back to the point. Did you talk to him about 
ihe Russian constitution and say you agreed Avitli it ( 

Mr. REMiN(iTON. I don't recall. 

Mr. Rogers. Did you agree with it ? 

Mr. Remington. There are things about the Russian Constitution 
which are good and things which are bad. 

Mr. Ro(iERS. Did you tell him that you liked it and you supported 
it — the Russian Constitution? 

Mr. Remington. No, sir. 

Mr. Rogers. You never said that ^ 

Mr. Remington. There are things about the Russian Constitu- 
tion 

Mr. Rogers. There are things about everything that are good, 
but I am asking: Did you support the Russian Constitution the way 
he says you did ? 

Mr. Remington. As a constitution, no. 

Mr. Rogers. So that is not correct, what he says, then, about the 
Russian Constitution? 

Mr. Remington. It is not correct, and if you will give me a chance 
I can explain it. 

Mr. Rogers. I am sure you can give one if I let you talk long enough, 
but he is a man of some intelligence, cum laude at Dartmouth and he 
says he knows you were a Communist, an avowed Connnunist, and that 
you told him you were working for communism, that you supported 
the Russian Constitution, and now what do yon say . D) you s.iy he is 
lying, that that is not true? 

Mr. Remington. I will say it is not true. 

Mr. Rogers. Did you ever tell us when we asked you questions about 
your strong feeling on communism, didn't you tell us that all you did 
was associate with Communists: as a matter of fact, vour last vear in 
college you became anti-Russian? 

Mr. Remington. I can prove that. 

IMr. Rogers. That you were anti-Russian in your last year? 

Mr. Remin(;t()n. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rogers. What did you do that was anti-Russian ( 

Mr. Remington. I can prove it. 

Mr. Rogers. Tell us, go ahead. How did you do it. or wh:it did you 
do that was anti-Russian? 

Mr. Remington. I ran the Conference Making Democracy Work. 

Senator Ferguson. Will you tell me this, who did you contact first 
in Government about your TVA job? 

Mr. Remington. 1 went down to the TVA and walked into the 
personnel office. 

Senator F"erguson. Who hired you? 

Mr. Re:mingt()N. Somebody in personnel. 

Senator Ferguson. Had some of your conversations with Mr. Bar- 
stow been prior to the time that you worked for TVA ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

Mr. Rogers. When did you woi-k for the TVA ? 

]Mr. Remington. October V.m\ to about A])ril of 1937. 

Senator Ferguson. Who did you know in Government while you 
were at Dartmouth? 

Mr. Remin<;'J'on. No one that 1 know of. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1915 

« 

Senator Ferguson. After you got out of Dartmouth, who did you 
first know in Government tliat in any way aided you or talked about a 
job in Government^ 

JNIr. Remington. I came down to Washinoton witli letters to 20 
men from Arthur MacMahon. 

Senator Ferguson. Arthur MacMahon. What was the month that 
you brought 20 letters from Arthur ]\IacMahon? 

Mr. Ke.aiington. In March of 19-40. 

Senator Ferguson. March of 19-40? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Did Arthur MacMahon at that time know that 
your mother-in-law was a Communist? 

Mr. Remington. I am not sure that she was then. I think that she 
was recruited during 1940. 

Senator Ferguson. But at the time you brought the letters down, 
did Arthur MacMahon know about that? 

Mr. Remington. He knew about the fact that my mother-in-law 
was beginning to associate with Communists, but he knew that I 
was not sympathetic. 

Senator P'erguson. Now, you think, then, when you got the letters, 
who did you get the letters from ? 

Mr. Remington. Arthur MacMahon. 

Senator Ferguson. How do you account for those not being in 
your file, those 20 letters that Arthur MacMahon gave you and you 
brought dow^n in 1940? 

Mr. Reiviington. I delivered them to the people who they were 
addressed to. 

Senator Ferguson. Yes, in Government. 

Mr. Remington, Personal letters. 

Senator Ferguson. But there is no such thing as "personal" in Gov- 
ernment when you are after a job, and he has the right to hire you. 
How do you account for those 20 letters not being in the file ? 

Mr. Remington. Because I was only hired in one agency. 

Senator P^erguson. At that agency did vou give any of those 
letters? 

Mr. Remington, It w^ould be that one addressed to that agency. 

Senator Ferguson. What was it ? 

Mr. Remington, National Resources Planning Board, 

Senator Ferguson, Yes, The National Resources Planning 
Board? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ierguson. Which you have described as a New Deal 
agency ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. And vou had a letter from whom to that 
Board? 

Mr. Remington. From Arthur McMahon to Mr. Blaisdell. 

Senator Ferguson. To Thomas Blaisdell? 

Mr. Remington. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Now, did MacMahon write the whole 20 letters? 

Mr. Remington. It was a form letter, and he wrote it. It was the 
same and addressed to 20 different men. 



1916 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

* 

Senator Ferguson. How do you account for the fact tliat the 
Thomas Blaisdell letter did not get into your personnel file, and it 
isn't in it now ? 

Mr. Remington. I have no idea, sir, whether it is in there or not. 

Senator Ferguson. We have had it, and I mean it has been stripped. 
Would you know why they would strip that out of the file ? 

Mr. Remington. Xo, sir; but I have a photostat of that in Ridge- 
wood, N. J., I think. 

Senator Ferguson. We would like to have it. Can you bring it 
down ? 

Are there any other questions? 

Mr. Rogers. Now I want to get back to this business that j^ou are 
anti-Russian at Dartmouth. What is this beside this one organization 
which doesn't strike me as being anti-Russian that you belong to that 
was anti-Russian? 

Mr. Remington. I have, sir, a great many of my college papers. 
Would you care to read them ? 

Senator Ferguson, I wish that you would leave them as part of your 
exhibit. 

Mr. Rogers. What kind of papers and what do they say, briefly? 

Mr. Remington. Papers for various courses which I wrote, and one 
essay and one short story, which indicate that I was a New Dealer but 
not that I was a Communist. 

Mr. Rogers. What I am asking now, you attempted in the public 
session to indicate, and in fact you said that in 1939 you became actively 
anti- Communist. 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rogers. Now, I am asking you, what evidence is there that 
you ever were anti-Communist, and here we have a man that says that 
3^ou were the leading Communist or one of the three leading Com- 
munists at Dartmouth. I am now asking you a very simple question : 
Wliat evidence do you have showing that you were anti-Communist 
when you were at Dartmouth ? 

Mr. Remington. I have the papers which I wrote, the essay which 
I wrote, and I maintain that those essays could not have been written 
by a Communist. 

Mr. Rogers. I didn't ask you that. Will you give us the substance 
of anything that you wrote or did showing that you are anti-Russian 
or anti-Communist ? It is a very easy question, and I know that you 
are smart enough to recognize its point. 

Mr. Remington. Those papers I am telling you about, sir, will 
show you. 

Mr. Rogers. What do they say, briefly ? 

Mr. Remington. I am giving them to you, and I don't have them. 

Mr. Rogers. They show that you are anti-Communist. 

Mr. Remington. They show — let Barstow read them. He will tell 

Mr. Rogers. That is a simple question. Do they show that you are 
anti-Communist ? 

Mr. Remington. I insist that they do, sir. 

Mr. Rogers. You also indicated in your testimony, I think, from 
my reading of it, that you wanted to leaA'e the impression with this 
committee that your connection with communism was pretty much 
through your mother-in-law. Now, the fact of the matter is that you 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1917 

apparently were a Communist before she was, because you testified 
that she did not become a Communist until the last part of 1938 or 
possibly 1939; and now Mr. Barstow says — and I certainly believe 
him — tiiat you were an active Communist before your mother-in-law 
in 1938 or 1937. What do you have to say about that ? 

Mr. Remington. I have said it, sir. 

Mr. Rogers. Didn't you try to leave the impression with this com- 
mittee when you testified in public session that you were not a Com- 
munist ; that you never espoused communism and you were surprised, 
when you found out that your mother-in-law was, and you found out 
that she was leaving little pamphlets around for children and that you. 
were upset by thatf 

Mr. Remington. I was very upset when I found that my mother- 
in-law was getting closer and closer to the Communist Party. 

Mr. Rogers. From your background, that could not have been too 
upsetting; you could not have been too shocked, if Mr. Barstow is 
telling the truth. 

Mr. Remington. I was shocked. 

Mr. Rogers. Obviously, you don't think that Mr. Barstow is telling 
this committee the truth. 

Mr. Remington. I have told you that he is not telling the truth, and 
he is telling the truth as he understood it at that time, and I definitely 
espoused certain things, definitely, which I have told you about. I was 
not a member. 

Mr. Rogers. Were you a member of the American Student Union? 

Mr. Remington. I have wracked my brains on that for years. 

Mr. Rogers. Your answer is that you don't remember ? 

Mr. Remington. The answer is that I definitely associated with 
ASU members and I went to some meetings and I don't think that I 
was a member. 

Mr. Rogers. You are not sure about whether you were a member of 
the ASU or not? 

Mr. Remington. I will not deny it. 

Mr. Rogers. How about the American Youth Congi-ess; were you 
a member of that ? 

Mr. Remington. I was not a member. 

Mr. Rogers. Were you a member of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade? 

Mr. Remington. Definitely not. 

Mr. Rogers. Have you been a member of any organization that you 
have not told us about, up to that point? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Rogers. Will you name some of them ? 

Mr. Remington. The Federal Club, the American Economic Asso- 
ciation. 

Mr. Rogers. What do you call this Public Administration Officials 
Association ? 

Senator Ferguson. Is it a labor organization ? 

Mr. Remington. I belonged to the A. F. of L. American Federation 
of Government Employees at one time. 

Mr. Rogers. When did you cease being a member? 

Mr. Remington. About the time when the union went CIO down 
in Knoxville ; that was about the time I dropped out of TVA. 

67052 — 50 — pt. 1 15 



1918 cojvimunism in the united states government 

Senator Ferguson. When you had been in Govermnent over here, 
have you belonged to any unions ? 

Mr. Remington. In Washington, I think that I once joined a union 
in the OPA for a few weeks. 

Senator Ferguson. Wliat was it? 

Mr. Remington. It was a bad one ; that is why I dropped out. 

Senator Ferguson. What was it ? 

Mr. Remington. I believe I have forgotten the name. It was a 
CIO union for Federal workers. 

Senator Ferguson. Wliat is the meaning of "bad"? Was it com- 
munistic ? 

Mr. Remington. I think that it became so. 

Mr. Rogers. All of these organizations became so later, apparently. 
At the time that you entered them, you didn't realize it. Is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Remington. I don't know whether anyone ever accused that 
organization of being a Communist organization in 1944. 

Mr, Rogers. Tell us the rest of them that you belonged to, so that 
we are sure that we get all of the organizations that you belonged to. 

Senator Ferguson. All that you belonged to. 

Mr. Remington. I belonged to at least a dozen at Dartmouth. Do 
you want them ? 

Mr, Rogers. Yes, 

Mr, Remington, It is going to bore you. 

Mr. Rogers. Now, with a man of your memory, you must be able 
to name the organizations to which you belonged, because I don't 
have as good a memory as you, and I can remember every organiza- 
tion that I belonged to in college and since. Will you relate the 
organizations that you belonged to ? 

Mr. Remington. I belonged to the Juntl, the Council on Student 
Organizations. I belonged to the track team; I belonged to the 
Cooperative Reading Club; I belonged to the organization called 
Conference on Making Democracy Work; I belonged on several dif- 
ferent occasions to a committee called Campus Peace Committee, or 
Emergency Peace Committee. It had different names in different 
years, and I belonged to it several different years. And I believe I 
belonged to the Dartmouth Union, although not very long, just in one 
year, as I recall. 

Now, I belonged to the editorial board of the Dartmouth at one 
time; I belonged to the Dartmouth Newspaper; I belonged to the 
Faculty-Student Committee on the Spanish Relief; I belonged to 
what was called Dartmouth Committee on Aid to China ; I belonged 
to what was called, I believe, just Student Committee to Aid Abyssinia 
or Ethiopia, or something of that sort. 

Now, there were many others. The organization to aid Spain 
had at least three different names three different years. Then I 
belonged to a very serious-minded Marxist study group, during, I 
guess, my freshman year. Then I belonged to the Dartmouth Out- 
ing Club, and then I met with them on other occasions, and there 
were times when I met with the editorial board of the Jack-o'-Lantern, 
casually on certain subjects; and I met with the business staff on 
some of the organizations of the faculty members like the Hanover 
Cooperative to sit at least once; and I was pretty closely identified. 

Oh, yes, of course, there was a whole coterie of organizations around 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1919 

what was called the Student Policy Committee, which I organized 
in my senior year to deal with problems of student relationship to 
curriculum. I have some student newspaper describing most of these 
things. 

Now, to put all of this in its perspective 

Mr. RoCxERS. Just before we have another speech, could you tell us 
any organizations that you belonged to after you got out of college? 
Just outline those. 

Mr, Remington. At Columbia I belonged to the Economic Club. I 
never even attended a meeting or anything else. Here in Washington 
I think tliat I told you about all of the organizations that I have be- 
longed to here, and I don't remember any others except the Economic 
Association. The Public Administration Officials organization of 
some kind. It is tied in with the Institute of Public Aclministration, 
but I have forgotten the exact name. And then the Federal Club. I 
think those are the only ones that have not been mentioned in the 
testimony. 

Of course, I was on the board of directors of Tauxemont Houses, 
Inc., a cooperative, and it was a cooperative and I belonged to the 
Roachdale Cooperative Stores and Consumers' Gasoline Station, and 
my wife belonged to the Book Shop. I think that that is about the 
list. • 

Senator Ferguson. Mr. Barstow, in going over your notes, I see one 
other notation, and I don't think that you read into the record this, 
and I show it to you here to read it and see whether that refreshes your 
memory. Will you read it into the record ? 

JSIr. Barstow. I think perhaps I had better read the two paragraphs 

here: 

There is something about a new book on Spain, which stated that the Loyalist 
election was really won by a minority group with a slight majority vote, not the 
peoples overwhelming vote and not democratic. 

Mr. Remington. Would you read that again? 

Mi". Barstow. This is a new book on Spam. It says : 

The Loyalist election was really won by a minority group with slight majority- 
vote, not peoples overwhelming vote and not democratic. They immediately 
kicked opponents out of the Government, put in new President and so forth, and 
the rebels outbreak result of unpopular anarchy, and so forth, many favored, 
and so forth. 

Those were the notes I made previously on that book. These are 
the comments I have down from Bill Remington : 

But Bill Remington opposes of course and says this view not right ; "250 to 
125 congressional majority in election and they put in for first time universal 
education" and in parentheses I have "objected" and made churcli assume its 
proper place outside state, in religion not politics. 

Mr. Remington. That is the separation of church and state. 

Mr. Rogers. What happened to Charles L? Do you know what he 
is doing now ^ Do you ever hear from him ? 

Mr. Remington. No. 

]Mr. Rogers. What about the other man, Mr. M? Do you know 
where he is ? 

Mr. Remington. Yes, sir; I didn't until I ran into him on the street 
in New York just a short while ago, a few months ago. He is teaching 
at some college, teaching sociology, and has a baby, and I know a lot 
of gossip about him but I don't know any of the details. 



1920 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Senator Ferguson. Mr. Barstow, do you have any remarks to 
make ? I saw you make a memo on your pad. 

Mr. Barstow. Well, this is just a memo that I made at one time, 
and I think the record when it is written out would substantiate this. 
He made some remark about some belief and this is the quote that I 
have, "Non-Communists said that too," and the reason I wrote it 
down at the time was it seemed to me that it might have been a slip, 
and this would have to be read from the record, and I would have to 
look at the context. 

Senator Ferguson. And he said at the time he was talking about 
Davis. 

Mr. Barstow. It is possible to put it in the record as having it mean 
that he believed it but "non-Communist said it too," and that may be 
an unfair criticism. 

Senator Ferguson. That is the way you felt about the answer. Is 
there anything else that you want to say on the record ? Is your mem- 
ory good about this ? 

Mr. Barstow. My memory is very good about this because I was so 
impressed by Bill, the way he talked, the persuasiveness of his argu- 
ments, even without these notes to refresh my memory specifically as 
to just what I then wrote down he said. I have remembered all of 
these years, knowing Bill as a Communist at Dartmouth, with these 
other two, and I am distressed to hear him deny thaf. 

Senator Ferguson. The members of the committee, is there any 
objection to us taking out of this testimony these two names, L and M, 
for the one time being and leaving it blank ? Have you any objection ? 

Mr. Barstow. No. 

Senator Ferguson. Have you, Mr. Remington? 

Mr. Remington. I think out of all decency it should be done. 

Senator Ferguson. We can put at the beginning that they were 
identified to the committee, but in this part of the record they will not 
be used. 

Mr. Remington. May I ask a question? I have been 

Senator Ferguson. We will do that so when it is written it will be 
left blank. 

Mr. Remington. I have been very restrained in dealing with Mr. 
Barstow because I liked him at college, I recall, and I recall him now, 
and I didn't at first, and I recall him as a very earnest young fellow 
and I perhaps — I think he is a good fellow— if there is going to be 
any publication of what he has said then there is an awful lot that 
I can do to challenge his statement. 

Senator Ferguson. That is entirely up to the committee, Mr. Rem- 
ington. 

Mr. Rogers. I think that we should have some explanation as to 
what you mean by "there is an awful lot I can do." I am sure the 
committee doesn't understand that remark. 

INIr. Remington. Because, sir, what he knew about me at college, 
his contact with me, was rather slight, and last night I went over 50 
names of people who knew me at Dartmouth, and heard me advocate 
progressive taxation, and breaking up of big corporations, and anti- 
monoply suits and things of that sort, and I could not have recalled 
Mr. Barstow to save my soul as a person who knew me well. 

His contact with me was so slight, a few chats of a freshman with 
a junior, that it makes very little sense. I would like to challenge 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1921 

his knowledge on me by questioning liim about Dartmouth, about the 
people that he knew. 

Senator Ferguson. I have asked you for the questions and if you 
will write them out, we will ask them. 

Mr. Remington. If you think it is worth that much time, sir. I 
don't; I am not challenging what he said. 

Senator Ferguson. You are the judge on that point. 

Mr. Remington. Well, as samples, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Barstow 
reports that he visited me many times in my room and if he can tell 
me something about the room to show that he has been there. 

Mr. Rogers. He has already described where it was and you in- 
dicated that that is where it was. Do you expect him to remember the 
objects in the room ? 

Mr. Barstow. It was, I believe, the second or third floor of Crosby 
Hall. I guess anybody knowing the college would know where Crosby 
Hall was, and it was an outside room, and I remember that you had 
a desk, I believe, in the southeast corner of the room and I believe 
there was a swivel chair and that you sat at that desk when I was 
talking with you and I can remember a typewriter with a paper in it 
that you were going to type after one of our discussions was over, and 
you finally sent me home and went to work on this paper on fascism 
in Spain. 

Senator Ferguson. I think that you have described it. 

Mr. Remington. And he is right on some things and not on others. 

Now, Mr. Chairman, does Mr. Barstow recall the names of any of 
the men that I roomed with ? 

Senator Ferguson. Do you recall the names ? 

Mr. Remington. And 

Mr. Barstow. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Remington. Sir, I want to point out that that is rather strange. 

Senator Ferguson. You can ask him questions. The committee 
will judge whether there is anything unusual or not. 

Mr. Remington. I roomed with W. M. and he has named M. I 
roomed with him until we got in each other's hair to the point where 
we sought refuge from each other. 

Mr. Barstow. I was just going to say that it might have been W. M. 
at one time ; C. L., as I said before, lived down the street in an apart- 
ment with his wife. 

Mr. Rogers. Do you have any other questions ? 

Mr. Remington. I think that I have gone as far as necessary, along 
those lines. Now, I would like to call to the committee's attention 
some things about my college record. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you have them in writing ? 

Mr. Rogers. Are there any more questions that you want to ask 
Mr. Barstow first, and we want to have an end of this. Do you have 
anything else ? 

Mr. Remington. We all w^ant to get out of here and I don't want 
to ask him any questions. 

Mr. Barstow. Could I say one more thing, if this matter is con- 
tinued, and I certainly would be interested in getting corroboration 
of the truth on the whole thing; I feel sure in my own mind now that 
there are a number of other students that I know I can name, and 
professors, at Dartmouth, with whom, if you have some way to get in 



1922 coMMuisnsM in the united states government 

toiieh with tliem, that could bear out my recorded impressions of 
Bill's havin<>; been avowedly a Communist there at Dartmouth. 

Mr. Kemington. Could Mr. Barstow stay while I tell you what I 
want to tell about my college career ? 

Senator Fp:rguson. Do you want him to? 

Mr. Rogers. To be sure that there is no question about that, you 
are satisfied that you have asked all of the questions that you desire 
to ask Mr. Barstow at this time ? 

]Mr; Eeimingtox. If the committee wishes to pursue this matter 
further on some subsequent meeting, I want to reserve the right to 
ask him more questions. 

Senator Ferguson. If we would bring him back, we would bring 
you back. 

Mr. EoGERS. The point we should make, is that we don't want you 
later to complain that you were rushed or it was lunch time or 
anything else, if you have any questions now as far as this session is 
concerned, of Mr. Barstow, if you will submit them to the chairman 
he will ask them. 

Mr. Remington. I will never say anything to try to embarrass this 
committee. I give you my promise on that. 

Mr. Rogers. Yes. 

Mr Remington Now, the president at Dartmouth knew me quite 
well and we exchanged quite a lot of correspondence on this kind of 
thing, the question of, there was a strike in Vermont and we ex- 
changed or we mentioned that in our correspondence in later years, 
and he had very good reason to know me well and his assistant knew 
me better than that, and a great many of the administration men knew 
me very well and they will testify to you that I espoused many very 
wild doctrines in my freshman and sophomore years at college and 
they will tell you that I outgrew it and they will tell you that the 
best of their judgment, or they will tell you as far as I know to the 
best of their judgment, that I never was a member of NYCL if there 
was any such — and I am not convinced there was really — and they will 
tell you that my junior year I was still terrifically idealistic and I still 
am ; that I worked hard for kind of causes that I believed in, like aid to 
Spain, because I was opposed to Hitler and Mussolini, and they 
will tell you that I raised money and contributed and that I advocated 
all kinds 

Mr Rogers. Why don't you suggest that we get in touch with them 
rather than you telling us what they are going to tell us? 

Mr. Remington. If you want to. Now what these men did for me, 
first, I was named as student member of the Council on Student Or- 
ganizations, by the president of the college, with consultation of the 
administration members. If I had been a Communist, they would not 
have named me. 

Senator Ferguson. Now, that is a conclusion. 

Mr. Remington. That is a fact, sir. I talked it over with them, 
I was put in charge of the Conference Making Democracy Work by 
the president of the college. I again insist that that was* because of 
conversations that I had with the clean and other people in which they 
were satisfied that I was not a Communist, 

Third, I was picked for the senior fellowship because they were 
3onvinced that I was sound. 



COMIVIUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1923 

Next, I was picked for a graduate fellowship. Everybody knows; 
Barstow says everybody knew wliat he knew, and I think that that is 
true, but other people didn't think that I was a Communist. 

Next, I was picked as one of the Dartmouth College representatives 
to compete for the Rhodes scholarship. I was one of the two men who 
survived the New Hampshire competition and I was sent from all of 
the colleges of New Hampshire down to Boston where I was elimin- 
ated, in the last round. 

Now I think that that is another indication that I was not a Com- 
munist. No Communist ever got there. • 

Now, everybody knew what Barstow knew, he says, and I think that 
that is true, and everybody knew exactly where I stood. 

I think that that is all that I have to say. I can prove all of that 
and I can show you the things. 

Senator Ferguson. Leave those with the clerk. 

We will recess now without a date to reconvene. 

(Thereupon, at 12 : 10 p. m., the committee recessed, to reconvene to 
the call of the Chair.) 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNISM IN THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT— PART 1 



THURSDAY, JUNE 8, 1950 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

ON Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. C. 

executive session 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10 : 55 a. m. in room 
226, Old House Office Building, Hon. Francis E. Walter presiding. 

Committee members present: Eepresentatives Francis E. Walter 
and John McSweeney (arriving as indicated) . 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Louis J. 
Eussell, senior investigator ; Donald T. Appell, William A. Wheeler, 
and Courtney Owens, investigators. 

Mr. FoRER (Joseph). Mr. Chairman, I would like to object to the 
fact that a quorum is not present. 

Mr. Walter. I have been constituted a subcommittee of one for the 
purpose of taking this testimony. 

Mr. FoRER. I would like to point out, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. and 
Mrs. Hinckley were supenaed to appear before the full committee, 
and may it appear that as to both Mr. Hinckley and Mrs. Hinckley 
we are proceeding under protest. 

Mr. Walter. Yes. Will you identify yourself for the record. 

Mr. Forer. My name is Joseph Forer. I am a member of the 
District of Columbia Bar. 

Mr. Walter. Will you raise your right hand, please. You swear 
the testimony you are about to give to the subcommittee shall be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just have a seat. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM WHEELER HINCKLEY, ACCOMPANIED 
BY HIS ATTORNEY, JOSEPH FORER 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hinckley, will you state your full name ? 

Mr. Hinckley. William Wheeler Hinckley. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Hinckley. Yankton, S. Dak., March 20, 1910. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you briefly outline your educational back- 
ground ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I went to the public schools of St. Joseph, Mo., 
graduating from high school there, and attended 2 years at St. 

1925 



1926 COIVIMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Joseph Junior Colleo;e; 2 years at Rollins College in Florida, where 
I took a bachelor's degree ; and I went to Columbia University Teach- 
ers' College 1 year, where I took a master's degree in education and 
psychology. Since that time I have had a few courses at George Wash- 
ington University. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us a brief statement of your employ- 
ment background, please, how you have been employed since you 
first began to accept employment ? 

Mr. Hinckley. During college I worked at a filling station. 

Mr. Tavenner. Say, after the completion of your education. 

Mr. Hinckley. I worked for a year and a half as a teacher, in- 
structor, at Black Mountain College in North Carolina. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that ^ 

Mr. Hinckley. I believe it was in 1933-34. That is approximate. 
I then was chairman of the American Youth CongTess for a period of 
approximately 4 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Beginning when ? 

Mr. Hinckley. 1935, in New York. I then for 2 years was em- 
ployed by the United States Office of Education, where I did a piece of 
research ; it was a handbook of college-entrance requirements. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry. I did not understand your statement. 

Mr. Hinckley. I was employed for 2 years at the United States 
Office of Education, where I did a piece of research ; it was a hand- 
book of college-entrance requii'ements. 

Mr. Tavenner. And when did that employment begin ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I believe it was the winter of 1940, early part of 
1940. At the conclusion of that period of employment I worked for a 
period of 2 months for the Railroad Retirement Board as an economist ; 
and from there I went to the Treasury Department, with the bond and 
stamp program, for a period of approximately 2 months ; then for 4 
years I was assistant director of employment of the American Na- 
tional Red Cross, responsible for recruiting overseas mail personnel for 
the services to the Armed Forces program of the organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did your employment with the Red Cross 
begin? 

Mr. Hinckley. 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did I understand that was a 4-year employment? 

Mr. Hinckley. Yes. I believe that is correct ; approximately that, 
since it is 8 years ago. For the last 4 years I have been employed as 
a teacher in Montgomery County. 

Mr. Tavenner. Through whom did you obtain your employment 
with the Red Cross? 

Mr. Hinckley. The personnel office. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who recommended you for employment there ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember whom I asked for recommenda- 
tions now. I believe I was employed on the basis of experience. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the official who arranged for your em- 
ployment with the Red Cross ? 

Mr. Hinckley. Mr. Chairman, J doirr rememb?!' his name at the 
moment. I talked to a great many people there connected with the 
Red Cross. I don't know who finally made the approval for the 
appointment, nor do I know all the people that I saw. 

Mr. Tavenner. From whom did you receive orders to report for 
work at the Red Cross ? 



gave 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1927 

Mr. HiNCKLET. I would assume that it was from the head of the 
personnel office, whose name at that moment was Mr. Gwinn. I 
don't know. I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who recommended you for your teaching position 
in Maryland ? 

Mr. Hinckley. Mr. Chairman, I don't remember whom I asked for 
recommendations in connection with that position, nor do I know who 
recommended me. I filed an application for the job. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you give references in your application? 

Mr. Hinckley. I am sure I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Don't you recall the names of the references you 
% 

Mr. Hinckley. I filed many applications. I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hinckley, on November 30, 1039, you testified 
before the Special Committee on Un-American Activities on the 
American Youth Congress, as its former executive secretary and 
chairman. In addition to this organization, Mr. Hinckley, with what 
other organizations have you been associated? 

Mr. Hinckley. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time connected with the Ameri- 
can League Against War and Fascism? 

Mr. Hinckley. I was a member of that organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at one time a member of the National 
Committee of the American League for Peace and Democracy ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I believe I was. I am pretty sure that I was, al- 
though I don't remember actually whether it was that organizatioii 
or the former organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of any other group or 
organization ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have been a member of many organizations. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state them, please ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the reason that 
I ffave before. 



>^ 



Mr. Tavenner. Can you state to the committee any reason for your 
refusal to answer, that might enable the committee to determine 
whether or not such testimony would tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have given you my reason. I am not a lawyer. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all the reason you desire to state? 

Mr. Hinckley. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hinckley, during the time that you were a 
member of the American Youth Congress, did you attend the World 
Youth Congress held in Switzerland in 1936 ? 

Mr. Hinckley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a delegate from the American Youth 
Congress to that meeting ? 

Mr. Hinckley. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Through what travel agency did you book trans- 
portation to the World Youth Congress? 

Mr. Hinckley. I dont' remember what travel agency. As a matter 
of fact, the negotiations, I believe, were taken care of through my 
office. I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. I did not understand your answer. 



1928 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. By whom were the arrangements for your travel 
negotiated ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember that. It was done through my 
office. 

Mr. Tavenner. Through your office as chairman of the American 
Youth Congress? 

Mr. Hinckley. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who paid the cost of your transportation ? 

Mr. Hinckley. The costs came from the funds of the organization 
as far as I remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. What organization ? 

Mr. Hinckley. The American Youth Congress. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you photostatic copies of two receipts, which 
I will request be marked for identification only as "Hinckley Exhibit 
No. 1" and "Hinckley Exhibit No. 2," and I will ask you to examine 
them and state whether or not that refreshes your recollection as to 
how arrangements were made for your transportation ? 

( Witness confers with Mr. Forer. ) 

Mr. Hinckley. I assume that I went to World Tourists, Mr. Chair- 
man. 

Mr. Walter. Will you keep your voice up a little, please ? 

Mr. Hinckley. Yes. I assume that these are for me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Those two exhibits, "Hinckley Ex'hibit No. 1" and 
■"Hinckley Exhibit No. 2," are receipts showing the receipt by World 
Tourists, Inc., of money from you ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Hinckley. They are receipts for money for me. 

Mr. Tavenner. From you ; yes. I desire to offer the two exhibits in 
evidence and have them marked "Hinckley Exhibit No. 1" and "Hinck- 
ley Exhibit No. 2." 

Mr. Walter. They will be received. 

(The photostatic copies of documents above referred to, marked 
•"Hinckley Es^hibit No. 1" and "Hinckley Exhibit No. 2," are filed 
lierewith.) 

Mr. Tavenner. "Hinckley Exhibit No. 1" shows that there was re- 
ceived from you the sum of $156.12; and "Hinckley Exhibit No. 2" 
shows that there was received from you by World Tourists, Inc., the 
sum of $50. Did you actually turn over those sums to World Tourists, 
Inc.? 

Mr. Hinckley. I assume they were turned over. I don't know 
w^hether I did it. I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the source of those funds, if they were 
turned over ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I believe the source was the organization that I was 
representing. I don't remember where the money originated; prob- 
ably from the treasury of that organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would the records of your organization disclose the 
payment of those funds if they were so paid? 

Mr. Hinckley. I assume they would, although I am not sure. I 
had very little to do with the keeping and the checking of the records. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your position at that time ? 

Mr. Hinckley. My position was chairman of the organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you in some doubt as to the source of those 
funds ? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1929 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. You don't remember. As a matter of fact, Mr. 
Hinckley, don't you know that those funds were actually paid by the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Hinckley. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr, Tavenner. Do you not know that World Tourists, Inc., had an 
account known as the Blake account, to which these two items repre- 
sented by Hinckley Exhibits 1 and 2 were charged? 

Mr. Hinckley. I did not know that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Aiid that the Blake account was actually an account 
of funds procured from the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember of ever having known anything 
of the sort. 

Mr, Tavenner. If you did not know the exact circumstances under 
which these funds were handled by World Tourists, Inc., did you not, 
however, know that those funds were funds advanced and paid by the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the reason that 
my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hinckley, I show you a photostatic copy of an 
application for passport filed by you for travel to the World Youth 
Congress, and I will ask you to identify the name of the person whose 
signature appears as a witness to your application. I will ask that 
the application be marked "Hinckley Exhibit No. 3" for identification 
only, 

Mr. Walter. Let it be so marked. 

(The photostatic copy of document above referred to was marked 
"Hinckley Exhibit No. 3" for identification only.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Who is the person whose name is signed as identify- 
ing witness to your application ? 

Mr. Hinckley. Benjamin Fine. 

Mr. Tavenner, Please identify Benjamin Fine to the committee and 
detail your acquaintanceship witli him. 

Mr. Hinckley. Benjamin Fine was at that time publicity director 
of Teachers' College, Columbia University. I believe he is now educa- 
tion editor of the New York Times. 

Mr. Tavenner. What Teachers' College? 

Mr. Hinckley. Teachers' College, Columbia University. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. How long had you known him ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember how long. 

Mr. Walter. To the best of your recollection ? 

Mr. Hinckley. Perhaps I knew him over a period of a year or so or 
2 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hinckley, do you know Elizabeth T. Bentley? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the reason that 
my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Walter. Why do you think it might incriminate you to admit 
that you knew a particular individual ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I am not a lawyer. I have given you my answer. 

(Witness confers with Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Hinckley. I can't answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you associated with Elizabeth T. Bentley in 
an V fraternal organizations while you were at Columbia University ? 



1930 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GO\^ERNMENT 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Elizabeth T. Bentley a student at Coknnbia 
University at the time that you were there ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tai-enner. Do you know William Walter Eemington? 

Mr. Hinckley. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and under what circumstances did you first 
meet him ? 

INIr. Hinckley. I met him, as far as I can remember, after I came 
to Washiii<2;ton and was employed by the United States Office of Edu- 
cation. I don't remember under what circumstances I met him. I 
saw him over a period of a year and a half or 2 years, socially, in 
Washington. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him while you were at Columbia 
University ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember ever meeting him before I came 
to Washington. 

J\lr. Tavenner. Do you mean you do not remember or that you did 
not make his acquaintance before coming here ? 

Mr. Hinckley. As far as my memory serves me, I did not make his 
acquaintance before I came to Washington. I met many people in 
my job, or in the various work that I did, and whether I may have 
met him beforehand is something that I could not testify under oath. 
I have met thousands of peojile. As far as my memory serves me, I met 
him and knew him only after I came to Washington. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were fraction meetings of the Communist Party, 
composed in part of members of the American Youth Congress, held 
while you were an official of that organization? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, 
for the reason that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did William Walter Remington ever sit in a meet- 
ing of any character, whether a Communist fraction meeting or other- 
wise, while you were an official of the American Youth Congress? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hinckley, did you know William Walter Rem- 
ington to be a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hinckley. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever sit in a Communist Party meeting 
attended by William Walter Remington? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the reason I 
gave before. 

Mr. Tavenner. During your days as a student at Columbia Uni- 
versity, were you a member of the Harlem section of the Communist 
Party'? 

Mr. HiNCio^EY. I refuse to answer that question for two reasons: 
In the first place, I think that there is no reason for an American 
citizen to be asked about his political affiliations; and in the second 
place, I refuse to answer because my answer might tend to incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever a member of the Communist Party 
or tlie Connnunist Political Association? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1931 

*Mr. Tavenner. Is it not a fact that Elizabeth T. Bentley signed 
your Communist Party card when you were recruited into the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you first take up your residence in 
Washington ? 

Mr. Hinckley. In the spring of 1940, as far as I remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you lived in Washington continuously for 
how long a period? 

Mr. Hinckley. I lived in Bethesda for a period of approximately 
2 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. And then where did you live after that ? 

Mr. Hinckley. On a farm near Germantown, Md, 

Mr. Tavenner. For a period of how long ? 

Mr. Hinckley. Until now. 

Mr. Tavenner. During your residence in Washington or in the 
neighborhood of Washing-ton, did you become acquainted with 
Nathan Gregory Silvermaster? 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember of ever meeting Mr. Silver- 
master. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. During this period did you become acquainted with 
Victor Perlo ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember of ever meeting Mr. Perlo. 

Mr. Tavennt:r. During this period did you become acquainted with 
Duncan C. Lee? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have no memoi-y of ever making his acquaintance. 

Mr. Tavenner. During this period did you meet William Ludwig 
Ullmann ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have no memory of ever making his acquaint- 
ance. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did you become acquainted with Robert T. Miller? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have met a number of people by the name of 
Miller. I have no memory of a Robert T. Miller at the moment, 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Henry H. Collins ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have known him ; I have met him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Please explain the circumstances under which you 
met Mr, Collins. 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember the circumstances under which 
I met him. I do remember of having met him. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your opportunity for becoming well 
acquainted with him? 

Mr. Hinckley. Well, the memory that I have is that at one time 
Mr. Collins and his wife came to our farm and weeded our garden one 
Sunday afternoon. I have no recollection of where I met him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there other occasions on which you met him ? 

JSIr. Hinckley. I believe there were social occasions, but as far as 
Avliere they were, I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any knowledge as to whether or not 
Henry H. Collins was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hinckley. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. During your residence in and near Washington, did 
you become acquainted with Charles Krevitsky, otherwise known as 
Charles Kramer, K-r-a-m-e-r? 



1932 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. HiNCKLET. I have no knowledge of ]\Ir. Kramer. 

Mr. Tavennee. Did you become acquainted with Abraham George 
Silverman ? 

Mr. Hinckley. As far as my memory serves me I never became 
acquainted with him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Lauchlin Currie? 

Mr. Hinckley. I met Mr. Currie once, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVhat were the circumstances? 

Mr. Hinckley. It was at the White House. Mr. Currie had re- 
turned from China, and Mrs. Roosevelt had invited some of her 
friends in for an evening's discussion led by Mr. Currie, and Mr. 
and Mrs. Currie were there and he talked about his trip to China. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet him on any other occasions ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have no memory of meeting him under any other 
circumstances. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Mr. Harry Dexter White ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have no memory of Mr. White. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Mr. Currie as a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Hinckley. Mr. Chairman, I refuse to answer that question on 
the ground my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Bela Gold ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have no memory of ever meeting Bela Gold. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Sonia Gold? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have no memory of Sonia Gold. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Frank Coe? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have no memory of Frank Coe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet Alger Hiss? 

Mr. Hinckley. As far as my memory serves me, I have never seen 
Mr. Hiss. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time you attended the meeting at the Wliite 
House, did you attend in any official capacity, such as an officer of the 
American Youth Congress? 

Mr. Hinckley. That meeting at the White House was a social 
meeting of friends of Mrs. Roosevelt, and we were simply invited to 
be there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Donald Hiss? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have never met Donald Hiss to the best of my 
memory. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliile you were living in Washington or near Wash- 
ington, did you become acquainted with John J. Abt? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have never met Mr. Abt as far as my memory 
serves me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Lee Pressman? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have met Mr. Pressman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Please explain the circumstances under which you 
met him. 

Mr. Hinckley. I met Mr. Pressman socially at a number of gath- 
erings. I don't remember how I actually met him first. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were these meetings held ? 

(Witness confers with Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Hinckley. Mr. Chairman, to the best of my memory at the 
moment, I remember of seeing him in two places. One was at my farm 
where he called one Sunday afternoon, again, I think, to help weed the 



COMMUNISM IX THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1933 

garden. Another occasion I recall is at the White House, but I don't 
recall the circumstances or any reason for meeting him there. It was 
probably a social gathering. 

(Representative McSweeney enters hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there other places or occasions on which you 
met Mr. Pressman? 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember any other occasions at the mo- 
ment. I assume that there were. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Did 3^ou know Lee Pressman as a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the reason- 
that I gave before. 

Mr. Wal(ter. Mr. Hinckley, why do you think it Avould incriminate' 
you to answer a question as to somebody else's political affiliations? 

(Witness confers with Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Hinckley. I can't answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Nathan Witt ? 

Mr. Hinckley. To the best of my memory I have never met Mr, 
Witt. 

Mr. Tavenner. While you were in and near Washington, did yon 
become acquainted with William Rosen ? 

Mr. Hinckley. To the best of my memory I have never beeit 
acquainted with Mr. Rosen. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with David Wahl? 

Mr HiNi KLEY To ;he l.(^st <n my nienury 1 have never been 
acquainted with Mr. Wahl. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr, Hinckley, you have refused on the grounds of 
self-incrimination to answer questions propounded to you this morn- 
ing. On April 2, 1939, you appeared on a program entitled "The 
People's Platform" sponsored by the Columbia Broadcasting System.. 
During this program you were asked by John B. Trevor the following^ 
question : 

I would like to ask Mr. Hinckley whether, in view of the positive stand he- 
has taken in regard to the bomb, whether he would take precisely the same stand 
in regard to a Communist meeting in Madison Square Garden? 

Your answer is quoted as follows : 

I think in that case I would say, "Absolutely no." The Communists, it would; 
seem to me, are no threat of aggression from without or from within. 

In view of your definite opinions on communism in 1939, I would 
like to ask you whether or not at this time you still feel that the 
Communists are no threat of aggression from without or from within ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I am not prepared to discuss my opinions or any 
changes that may have taken place in them. 

Mr. Taatenner. In other words, you decline to express any opinion 
as to whether or not communism now constitutes a threat of aggression 
from within or without this country or the Government? 

Mr. Hinckley. That is a matter of opinion, and I am not prepared 
to discuss the opinion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hinckley, I have asked you the pointed question 
of whether or not you have ever been a member of the Communist 
Party. If I have not asked that specific question I will ask it now. 
Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party t 

67052 — 50— pt. 1 16 



1934 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the reason that 
my answer miglit tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. You recall, do yon not, when you testified before this 
committee on April 2, 1939, you denied having been a member of the 
Communist Party 'i 

(Witness confers with Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember, Mr. Chairman, what my testi- 
mony was on that date. 

Mr. Tavenner. In your testimony you referred to the fact that both 
Mr. Cadden and you had been charged with being Communists, in 
which connection you stated, page 7053 of the hearings of this com- 
mittee : 

That is not true. We have denied it. I would like to deny it here under 
oath. 

Does that refresh your recollection ? 

(Witness confers with Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Hinckley. I think I did so testify. 

Mr. Tavenner. Has anything occurred since April 2, 1939, which 
would make your answer different? 

(Witness confers with Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the reason that 
my answ-er might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time become acquainted with Mary 
Jane Keeney or her husband, Philip ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I have met them. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where did you meet them? 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't know. I don't remember where I met them, 
nor do I remember wdien. It was probably in the first 2 years of my 
being in Washington. 

Mr. Tavenner. What w^ere the circumstances of your meeting them ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I met them socially. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know them as members of the Communist 
Party, either of them ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the reason that 
my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the 
time you testified before this committee on April 2, 1939 ( 

(Witness confers wnth Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, for 
the reason that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. You told the connnittee that you were acquainted 
with William Walter Remington while j^ou were here in Washington. 
How frequently did you see him ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I saw him very irregularly, on invitation. I don't 
remember the precise luimber of times I saw him. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you w^ould say you saw him frequently? 

Mr. Hinckley, No; I couldn't say that I saw him frequently. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he in the company of Elizabeth T. Bentley on 
any occasion when you saw him ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on 
the ground that my answer miglit tend to incriminate me. 

(Witness confers with Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the names of other persons who were 
present on occasions when you met William Walter Remington? 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1935 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't recall the names of any precise people who 
were present. The circumstances that I recall mostly today are Mr. 
Remingjton's playine: volley ball in our side yard, usually with neigh- 
bors and friends. 

Mr. Tavenner. If it was a purely social function, I don't want to 
ask you the names of people. Did 3'ou attend a group meeting of any 
kind with Remington ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I believe I had lunch with him with groups. I have 
no memory of any other kinds of meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you testified before this committee in April 
1939, wdien you denied under oath that you were a member of the 
Communist Party, did you t«ll the truth ? 

(Witness confers with Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, on 
the ground that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hinckley, in order to teach in the State of Mary- 
land, I think that those who ai-e teachers and applicants for a teach- 
ing position in Maryland are required to sign an affidavit under the 
Ober law. Did you sign such an affidavit? 

Mr. Hinckley. To the best of my memory, I did ; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Undei' that law, an applicant for a position, or where 
he was employed prior to the effective date of the hnv, the employee 
must sign an affidavit containing a provision that the applicant or the 
employee does — 

hereby certify that I am not a subversive person as defined in chapter 86 of the 
Acts of the General Assembly of Maryland of 1940, namely, that I am not a person 
who conunits, attempts to commit, or aids in the commission, or advocates, abets, 
advises, or teaches by any means any person to commit, attempt to commit, or 
aid in the commission of any act intended to overthrow, destroy, or alter, or to 
assist in the overthrow, destruction, or alteration of the constitutional form of 
government of the United States, or of the State of Maryland, or any political 
subdivision of eitlier of them, by revolution, force, or violence. 

And the employee or applicant further certifies that he is — 

not a member of a foreign organization as defined in said chapter 86, namely, 
that I am not a member of any organization directed, dominated, or controlled 
directly or indirectly by a foreign govermnent which engages in or advocates, 
abets, advises, or teaches, or a purpose of which is to engage in or to advocate, 
abet, advise, or teach, activities intended to overthrow, destroy, or alter, or to 
assist in the overthrow, destruction, or alteration of the constitutional form of 
the Government of the United States, or of the State of Maryland, or of any 
political subdivision of either of them, and to establish in place thereof any 
form of government the dlrectioji and control of which is to be vested in, or 
exercised by or under, the domination or control of any foreign government, 
organization, or individual. 

And the employee or applicant also certifies that he is — 

not a member of an organization which engages in or advocates, abets, advises, 
or teaches, or a purpose of which is to engage in or advocate, abet, advise, or 
teacli activities intended to overthrow, destroy, or alter, or to assist in the over- 
throw, destruction, or alteration of, the constitutional form of the Government 
of the United States, or of the State of Maryland, or any political suiKlivlsion of 
either of them, by revolution, force, or violence. 

That is similar to the affidavit which you signed, is it not? 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember the wording, but I assume that 
it is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you consider that a member of the Communist 
Party of the United States of America can sign that affidavit without 
violation of its provisions? 



1936 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

(Witness confers with Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Hinckley. Mr. Chairman, I feel that that is a matter of opinion. 
I don't feel qualified at the moment to discuss it or give my views 
on it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the 
time you signed that affidavit or its equivalent ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question, Mr. Chairman, for 
the reason that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wali^r. Were you a member of the Communist Partv on the 
2d of April 1939? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the reason that 
I have given before. 

Mr. Walter. Why do you feel it wouhl incruninate you to answer 
the question today when on the 2d of April 1039 you apparently did 
swear that you were not a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. McSweeney. Have you taken any other oaths or affirmations 
regarding your loyalty to the United States Government at any time 
in any other position than as school teacher? 

Mr. Hinckley. I don't remember. 

Mr. McSweeney. Were you in the Army ? 

Mr. Hinckley. No ; I wasn't. 

Mr. Walter. Anything further, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Walter. That is all. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness be 
iidvised that he will be held under the subpena, to be recalled in the 
event the committee requests it. 

Mr. Walter. I don't think that is a good practice, Mr. Tavenner. 
If you do that, you always leave the door open for a question to be 
raised as to the validity of the subpena. I think it is a better practice 
to issue a new subpena. 

(Thereupon Mrs. Margaret C. Hinckley entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Forer. Mr. Chairman, may the record show the same objection 
of no quorum for Mrs, Hinckley that I noted for Mr. Hinckley ? 

Mr. Walter. Note the appearance of counsel for the record and the 
objection that a quorum of the full committee is not present. How- 
ever, I think the record should show that a subcommittee was desig- 
nated by the chairman to hear this testimony. 

Will you stand and hold up your right hand? Yoi; swear the 
testimony you are about to give the subcommittee shall be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Hinckley. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. MARGARET C. HINCKLEY, ACCOMPANIED BY 

HER COUNSEL, JOSEPH FORER 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please? 

Mrs. Hinckley. Margaret C. Hinckley. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were you born ? 

Mrs. Hinckley. Beverly, Mass. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien were you and Mr. Hinckley married ? 

Mrs. Hinckley. In 1943. 



COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 1937 

Mr. Tavtenner. Will you state briefly for the committee your educa- 
tional background? 

Mrs. Hinckley. I attended the Windsor School in Boston. My 
education followed a rather checkered course. I started at Smith and 
became ill and went to Rollins in Florida, where I met Mr. Hinckley, 
and spent a year at the Sorbonne in Paris, and went to Radcliffe for 
a year. Then I was married and went to Teachers' College at Colum- 
bia University. That is about all. 

Mr. Tavenner. While you were at Teachers' College at Columbia 
University, did you meet Elizabeth T. Bentley ? 

Mrs. Hinckley. I am sorry, I refuse to answer the question on the 
grounds that anything I may answ^er might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did vou also meet Mr. William Walter Remington 
while you were at Columbia University? 

Mrs. Hinckley. No ; I didn't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you had employment at any time since the 
completion of your education ? 

Mrs. Hinckley. Yes. I worked for the American Social Hygiene 
Association in New York. I am not sure quite what the time was. It 
must have been 19o8 and 1939, or something like that, along tliere, 
about 2 years, part of which was part time and part full time; I think 
most of 1939 and part of 1938. That is the main job I have ever had. I 
married and continued going to college, and except for that I haven't 
sought employment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you accompany your husband to Switzerland 
at the time of the meeting of the World Youth Congress there? 

Mrs. Hinckley. No, I didn't. I had a baby at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how the expense of that trip of your 
husband's was paid? 

Mrs. Hinckley. No ; I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend any meetings of a Communist Party 
■cell at Columbia University ? 

Mrs. Hinckley. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds I gave before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now or have you ever been a member of 
the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Hinckley. I am sorry. I refuse to answer that question for 
the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Mr. William 
Walter Remington while you were living in Washington ? 

Mrs. Hinckley. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he was a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hinckley. No. I have no way of knowing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever attended a Communist Party meet- 
ing at which he was present ? 

(Representative McSweeney leaves hearing room at 12:07 p. m.) 

Mrs. Hinckley. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds 
that my answer might incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Mary Jane Keeney ? 

Mrs. Hinckley. I don't know the name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you see Elizabeth T. Bentley at any time after 
you came to Washington ? 



1938 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

Mrs. Hinckley. I refuse to answer the question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr, Walter. That is alL 

(Thereupon, at 12:09 p. m. on Thursday, June 8, 1950, an ad- 
journment was taken.) 

X 



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