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N
HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNISM IN THE
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT— PART 2
HEARINGS
(j^L/hi BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-FIKST CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
AUGUST 28 AND 31, SEPTEMBER 1 AND 15, 1950
Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
67052 WASHINGTON : 1950
■\
M). S. SUPtWHTEND^Nlr OF DOCUMENTS
DEC 4 »950
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Representatives
JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania RICHARD M. NIXON, California
BURR P. HARRISON, Virginia FRANCIS CASE, South Dakota
JOHN McSWEENEY, Ohio HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York
Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel
Louis J. Russell, Senior Investigator
John W. Carrington, Clerk of Committee
Benjamin Mandel, Director of Research
n
CONTENTS
August 28, 1950: Pag«
Testimony of Lee Pressman 2844
August 31, 1950:
Testimony of Abraham George Silyerman 2903
September 1, 1950:
Testimony of —
Nathan Witt 2923
Charles Kramer 2937
John J. Abt ..... 2950
September 15, 1950:
Testimony of Max Lowenthal 2959
Appendix 1 2987
Index 2999
HI
HEAKINGS EEGAEDING COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED
STATES GOYEENMENT-PAET 2
monday, august 28, 1950
United States House of Representatives,
Committee on Un-American Activities
Washington, D, C.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
The committee met, pm-suant to call, at 10:50 a, m. in room 226,
Old House Office BuUding, Hon, John S. Wood (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives John S. Wood,
Francis E. Walter, Bm^r P. Harrison, John McSweeney, Morgan M.
Moulder, Richard M. Nixon, Francis Case, and Harold H. Velde,
Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Louis J.
Russell, senior investigator; Donald T. Appell, and Courtney Owens,
investigators; Benjamin Mandel, director of research; and A. S.
Poore, editor.
Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like at this time to call
four witnesses who were subpenaed for this morning, and ask that
they be sworn in and then discharged until tomorrow morning.
Their names are, Alex Leith
Mr. Wood. Please answer to your names.
Mr. Tavenner. Alex Leith.
Mr. Leith. Here.
Mr. Tavenner. Henry Fiering.
Mr. Fiering. Here.
Mr. Tavenner. Wincliard Dee.
Mr. Dee. Here.
Mr. Tavenner. And Ben Riskin.
Mr. Riskin. Here.
Air. Wood. Come forward, please, gentlemen. Will you hold up
your right hands, please. You and each of you solemnly swear that
the evidence you give before this committee shall be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Leith. I do.
Mr. Fiering. I do. -
Mr. Dee. I do.
Mr. Riskin. I do.
Mr. Wood. You are excused until 10 o'clock in the morning,
gentlemen.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call at this time
Mr. Lee Pressman.
Mr. Wood. Let us have order, please.
2843
2844 COJVIMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Pressman, will you hold up your right hand, please. You
swear that the evidence you will give this committee shall be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Pressman. I do.
Mr. Wood. Have a seat, please.
TESTIMONY OF LEE PRESSMAN
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name?
Mr. Pressman. My name is Lee Pressman.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Pressman, the record of proceedings of this
committee shows that you appeared before it on August 20, 1948, and
at that time you refused, on constitutional grounds, to answer certain
questions relating to your alleged affiliation with the Communist
Party.
The Committee on Un-American Activities has learned through the
public press that when you recently resigned from the American
Labor Party you issued a statement to the effect that you were doing
so because of the Communist control of that organization. The com-
mittee has consistently endeavored to give an opportunity to witnesses
who have appeared before it to repudiate their Communist affiliations
or associations. A full disclosure of your knowledge of Communist
Party activities would perform a great public service, especially at
this time, when acts of military aggi-ession are being committed by
the forces of international communism. It would also be evidence
that the break with your alleged Communist association has been
full and complete, and that your action was taken in good faith.
The committee will not be satisfied with a mere perfunctory re-
pudiation of the Communist Party, nor, it is suggested, will the Amer-
ican public. The committee desires to know if you are willing to
cooperate with it in its effort to expose Communist activities by
answering such questions as will be propounded to you with regard
to Communist activities during the course of this hearing?
Mr. Pressman. Mr. Chairman, I ask at this time for the oppor-
tunity of making a brief statement to the committee.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Pressman, you will be accorded the privilege of
making whatever statement you desire, but you have just been asked
a direct question, and we would like to have a direct answer to that
question.
Mr. Pressman. May I suggest the question was rather lengthy.
Mr. Wood. The latter part was direct.
Mr. Pressman. I believe my statement, which will be very brief,
will answer the question, as well as indicate precisely what my position
will be before the committee today.
Mr. Wood. Then will you be prepared to answer questions asked
you?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Wood. Proceed.
Mr. Pressman. I understand, Mr. Chairman, there is a desire that
I further clarify the position which I took in my recent letter resigning
from the American Labor Party. This I desire t:o do, as well as take
this opportunity to expose many distortions which have been circu-
lated regarding my past activities. There has been considerable
speculation regarding my past activities. I propose at this moment
to set forth a few very simple facts.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2845
In the early 1930's, Mr. Chairman, as you may well recall, as well
as other members of this committee, there was a very severe depression
in our country. The future looked black for my generation just
emerging from school. At the same time, the growing specter of
nazism in Germany presented to my mind an equally grave threat.
In my desire to see the destruction of Hitlerism and an improve-
ment in economic conditions here at home, I joined a Communist
group in Washington, D. C, about 1934. My participation in such
group extended for about a year, to the best of my recollection. I
recall that about the latter part of 1935— the precise date I cannot
recall, but it is a matter of public record — I left the Government
service and left Washington to reenter the private practice of law in
New York City. And at that time I discontinued any further partic-
ipation in the group from that date until the present.
Now, Mr. Chairman, I state the following at this time:
There w^ere three other persons in that group in addition to myself.
They were all at the time with me in the Department of Agriculture.
They have all been named before this committee by others.
I state to you that I am prepared, as I will indicate, to answer any
and all questions regarding my activities in the past up to the present,
and possibly project my viewpoint into the future. It would be
offensive to me, as it would be to practically all people, to have to
name individuals with whom I have associated in the past.
What I have stated to you would indicate that I offer no additional
information that this committee does not already have. However,
that is a decision which this committee wiU have to make in pro-
pounding its questions to me and the directives you issue to me.
Bear in mind, sir, there may be others like myself who, out of deep
convictions, will change their beliefs. If this committee assumes the
position that those who do change their convictions and beliefs, as I
have, must also be compelled to take what I submit would be an offen-
sive— offensive to one's own personal self — position, that might well
be discouraging to other people to do what I have done. But, I
repeat, that is a decision which this committee will have to make.
Now, I believe it of interest to comment that I have no knowledge
regarding the political beliefs or affiliations of Alger Hiss. And when
I say I have no knowledge, I am not endeavoring to quibble with this
committee. I appear here, as I necessarily must, as a lawyer. I am
a lawyer. When one asks me for knowledge, knowledge to my mind
is based on fact, and I have no facts. And bear in mind, sir, that as
an attorney, to be asked to comment on a" case now pending in court
is a very unusual experience for an attorney, because anything I say
undoubtedly may have an impact one way or another on that case,
and for that reason I am trying to be very, very precise. I do know,
I can state as a matter of knowledge, that for the period of my partici-
pation in that group, which is the only basis on which I can say I
have knowledge, Alger Hiss was not a member of the group.
Now, those two statements of mine are based on knowledge, which
embraces facts within my possession. I do not believe that this com-
mittee would want me to hazard conjectural surmise. That is not my
function. You want from me, I assume, facts and nothing but facts.
Now, there has been a great deal of wild speculation, a great deal of
unfortunate distortion, regarding my name as it arose in the course of
previous testimony before this committee by a man named Chambers.
2846 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
I desire to call attention to the fact that on a previous appearance by
me before this committee, at which I believe Congressman Nixon was
the chairman of the subcommittee, we were then in executive session
but it was a matter of record, there was a colloquy between Mr.
Stripling, the counsel of the committee, and myself. At page 1023 of
the record of proceedings of August 18, 1948, there appears this
colloquy, and I take this opportunity to repeat this, because up to
date, even though I have brought this colloquy to the attention of
many representatives of the press, no one has seen fit to date to print
it until this morning. The colloqu}^ is as follows. Mr. Pressman
asked this question I now quote: "Has there been any charge"
Mr. Wood. You say "Mr. Pressman" asked that question?
Mr. Pressman. That is myself. I asked the question :
Has there been any charge made by any witness that has appeared before this
committee that I have participated in any espionage activity while an emploj'ee of
the Federal Government or thereafter?
End of question.
Mr. Stripling answered as follows, I now quote: "No, there has not
been." End of quote.
And I point out that that colloquy occurred after Mr. Chambers
had testified and had mentioned my name in the course of his
testimony.
To continue on my background, I will be very brief, Mr. Chairman.
In 1936 I was appointed general counsel of the CIO. Actually, I
might say, being more specific, I was named in June 1936 as general
counsel for the Steelworkers Organizing Committee. The CIO did
not actually begin to function until 1937. At that time I was in the
private practice of law in New York City, and continued such until
about 1938, to the best of my recollection, when I returned to Wash-
ington, D. C, acting as full-time attorney for the CIO and the Steel-
workers Organizing Committee, which by that time might well have
become the United Steelworkers of America, In 1948 I resigned, for
reasons which I then publicly stated.
What I will say might be an aside and quite irrelevant, but I
believe quite important, because, contrary to the facts which wiU
be developed in the course of this proceeding, I hope, there has been
the w^ildest kind of distortion regarding my activities and my views in
the past.
For example, completely contrary to fact, statements now appear
in the press that I was forced to resign from the CIO because of my
views. Actually, that action taken then was of my own accord.
Contrary to what many newspaper reporters may say, I can prove
my assertion, because at that time I was given a letter by the president
of the CIO expressing his appreciation for the contribution which I had
made to the CIO while I had been employed in the capacity of general
counsel of that organization. And even more important, after my
resignation I was requested by the CIO and Mr. Murray to appear in
their behalf as their counsel in connection with their indictments
under the infamous Taft-Hartley Act.
I say those two facts certainly attest to the correctness of my
assertion that when I resigned it was a matter of my own accord, for
the reasons which I stated then publicly. All I can say is that my
contribution to organized labor from the year 1938 until 1948 when I
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2847
acted for the CIO is a matter of public record on which I do not at
this moment intend to comment.
Now, I think it woukl be in order, Mr. Chairman, for me again to
make one or two brief observations regarding present conditions which
have had a bearing on the position which I have taken.
A grave crisis confronts om- Nation and all humanity today. The
warfare raging in Korea threatens to unleash a world conflict which
would destroy our civihzation. All my life I have opposed aggression.
I therefore denounce the fighting initiated by the North Korean forces
in South Korea. The Communist Party and its forces in the labor
movement, as they have expressed themselves publicly, are the
supporters and apologists for an agressive war. I vigorously oppose
this position. I desire to support the United Nations and my country.
It is my fervent hope that the United Nations can devise immediate
steps which can bring about a quick end to the present bloodshed and
assure world peace.
The om-ushing frightful conflict between ideological forces today
threatens our destruction. We find the resurgence of nazism assisted
by the release of die-hard Nazis who were convicted of the most
horrible crimes. We are confronted by the driving aggressive Com-
munist attack. Our survival must be based upon the people's under-
standing of the true meaning and worth of American democracy and
their determination to fight for its preservation and full enjoyment.
Each individual, Mr. Chairman, must constantly peer into his own
conscience to evaluate his convictions upon which to base his faith and
creed. The position that I have taken today was not taken hurriedly.
It was taken after careful and due consideration and deliberation. The
position I have assumed today, Mr. Chairman, stems from very pro-
found convictions. There may be questions in people's minds regard-
mg the position I have taken. I can only say that I state as a matter
of fact that the position I have assumed stems from a profound sin-
cerity on my part.
I deeply appreciate that within ourdemocratic way of life, when past
beliefs prove false, when a human being finds that he has made mis-
takes, there is the opportunity for change and to contribute in what-
ever way possible toward the dignity and well-being of man and the
preservation of peace for all humanity.
Those are my observations, which express my knowledge of my ac-
tivities of the past and my present viewpoint. If you have questions
of me, Mr. Chairman, I shall endeavor the best I can to answer the
questions.
Mr. Wood. Before members of the committee are given an oppor-
tunity to ask questions, Mr. Counsel do you have questions to ask?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pressman, what is your present address?
Mr. Pressman. 225 Broadway, New York City.
Mr. Tavenner. That is your residential address?
Mr. Pressman. My office address.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your residential address?
Mr. Pressman. Is there need for that, Mr. Chan-man, to be in
the record?
Mr. Tavenner. You have furnished the committee with a state-
ment of your employment since 1936 when you were appointed as
general counsel for the CIO, but will you go back and give us a state-
2848 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
ment of your record of employment prior to that time, both in and
out of the Govertiment?
Mr. Pressman. I graduated from Harvard Law School in June
1929. I believe it was September 1929 when I was employed at a
law firm in New York City. My recollection is that I was with the
law firm from 1929 until sometime the latter part of 1932 or early
part of 1933, when I became a partner in another law firm.
Sometime in the spring of 1933 I was called do^vn to Washington
by Mr. Jerome Frank, who was then general counsel of the Agricul-
tural Adjustment Administration, and asked whether I would accept
employment with the Administration as an assistant general counsel.
At this point, Mr, Chairman, I would like to take the opportunity
as I will tlu'ough the course of these proceedings, to lay low, I hope
once and for all, many distortions of truth. It has been asserted time
and again by some people that I was responsible, for example, for
getting Alger Hiss a job in triple A. I state as a fact, and the public
records will boar me out, that when I came to Washington to become
employed in the triple A, at that time Alger Hiss was already working
with Jerome Frank as his assistant in the triple A. I had nothing
whatsoever — and when I say nothing whatsoever I mean precisely
that — nothing whatsoever to do with the employment of Alger Hiss
in the triple A.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me interrupt you there.
Mr. Pressman. May I continue?
Mr. Tavenner. No. I would like to interrupt you at this point.
Who endorsed you for the position in the AAA?
Mr. Pressman. I just stated that Mr. Jerome Frank asked me to
come to Washington to join up with the triple A because I had been
working with him, was his assistant, in the law firm from which I came.
Mr. Tavenner. Did anyone else, to your knowledge, endorse you
for that position?
Mr. Pressman. Not to my knowledge. Is there a suggestion, sir,
that there was?
Mr. Tavenner. I am asking if you know.
Mr. Pressman. Not to my knowledge. Jerome Frank was the
only person I knew in the city of Washington at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. All right.
Mr. Pressman. In the early part of 1935, Mr. Chairman^and you
must remember looking back 15 or 16 years it is a little difficult to
reconstruct these precise dates — I became general counsel of what I
believe was then known as Federal Employment Relief Administra-
tion, or FERA.
Mr. Tavenner. What was that date again, please?
Mr. Pressman. The early part of 1935. That agency was trans-
formed soon thereafter into the Works Progress Administration, of
which Mr. Harry Hopkins was Administrator, and I was general
counsel for FERA and for Works Progress Administration when it
became such.
About the same time, and under the same legislation, an agency
called the — it wasn't the Resettlement Administration; I forget the
name of it now; it was in effect the Resettlement Administration, of
which Mr. Tugwell was administrator, was created, and I acted as
his general counsel at the same time I was general counsel for WPA,
and to the best of my recollection it was the latter part of 1935, in the
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2849
winter of 1935, that I resigned from both of those positions, left Wash-
ington and the Government service, and retm-ned to New York to
reenter the private practice of law. I became a partner in a law firm
in New York City.
In June 1936 I was asked by Mr. John Le\vis, then chairman of
the Committee for Industrial Organization, if I would become general
counsel for the Steelworkers Organizing Committee, set up, I believe,
June 15, 1936. I said yes, and from that time until June 1938 I was
in the private practice of law in New York and acting part time as
counsel for the Steelworkers Organizing Committee as one of my
clients.
In 1938, I moved to Washington and acted as full-time general
counsel for the CIO and the Steelworkers Organizing Committee.
In 1948, I resigned from the CIO and went back into private
practice of the law in New York City, where I am now engaged in
the practice of the law.
Mr. Tavenner. If I understood you correctly, you came to Wash-
ington in the sprmg of 1933?
Mr. Pressman. Sometime around May or June. I forget the
exact month.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliere did you reside in Washington?
Mr. Pressman. I believe it was 3000 Connecticut Avenue, my
first residence here.
Mr. Nixon. Right opposite the zoo?
Mr. Pressman. That is right, a large apartment house there.
Mr. Nixon. Weren't you on the second or third floor there?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct. Were you my neighbor, Mr.
Congressman?
Mr. Nixon. I just know Washington.
Mr. Tavenner. When you left your employment as general counsel
for the AAA, will you state the reason for your change?
Mr. Pressman. ^Vhen I left what, sir?
Mr. Tavenner. You were general counsel or assistant general
counsel of the AAA. When you left that employment and went to be
general counsel of FERA and then Works Progress Administration,
what was your reason for making that change, and what were the cir-
cumstances surrounding it?
Mr. Pressman. Mr. Counsel, you know very well I had no reason.
That change was forced upon me. At that time, as is well known,
Mr. Wallace, who was Secretary of Agriculture, asked for the resigna-
tion of Jerome Frank, who was general counsel of Triple A, along with
several assistants of Air. Jerome Frank. I was among them. My
resignation was submitted. Immediately thereafter Mr. Harry Hop-
kins asked if I would accept employment as general counsel of FERA
and I assented.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat were the circumstances surrounding your
leaving the Government service in the winter of 1935?
Mr. Pressman. I had decided that I had, to my way of thinking,
sufficient experience in Washington and in the Federal service, and I
wanted to return to the private practice of law.
Mr. Tavenner. Was your resignation in any way suggested by a
superior?
Mr. Pressman. Absolutely not.
Mr. Tavenner. Or was it a purely voluntary act on your part?
2850 COMMUNISM IX THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Pressman. Completely so.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you become a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Pressman. To the best of my recollection, sometime the early
part of 1934.
Mr. Tavenner. What were the circumstances under which you
united with the Communist Party? That is, who recruited you into
the party and all other circumstances connected with it?
Mr. Pressman. The circumstances are very simple. I was asked
to join by a man named Harold Ware. For the reasons which I have
already indicated, I assented, and I joined with the gi'oup which had,
in addition to myself, thi-ee other persons, all of whom at that time
were in the Department of Agriculture.
Mr. Wood. Are any of them in the Department of Agriculture now?
Mr. Pressman. No, Mr. Chairman, and the thi-ee who were then
in the Department of Agriculture have been named before this com-
mittee time and time again.
Mr. Tavenner. At the time that you were recruited into the party
by Ware, were you assigned to any branch or section or cell of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I was assigned merely to this specific group.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of this group?
Mr. Pressman. We had no name. We were just a group of indi-
viduals.
Mr. Tavenner. You say there were only four members of that
group?
Mr. Pressman. During the period of my participation there were
only four members of the group.
Mr. Tavenner. Who were they?
Mr. Pressman. Mr. Chairman, in the face of the statement I
have made, is that a directive from the committee, the question that
has just been propounded to me? Bear in mind what I said, Mr,
Chairman, if I may repeat myself, there may be other people such as
myself who have changed their beliefs and their convictions. The
burden is on the committee to make the decision.
Mr. Wood. The committee is considering that statement that you
made. The fact they have aheady been named before the com-
mittee does not necessarily mean the specific information called for by
the question is in the possession of the committee.
Mr. Nixon. Mr. Pressman, in that connection, I appreciate your
interest in being accurate and clearing up an}^ distortions that may
have grown up previously, and I wouldn't think you would want to
leave the impression in the record that these three people might be
any three of the people named as Communists before this committee.
Do you mean all people named as Communists before this committee
have been correctly named as such?
Mr. Pressman. No. I am saying that the three individuals who
have been named as members of this group— not just as Communists
but named as members of this group — and who were then with me in
the Department of Agriculture, that I, in my naming these individuals,
would not be adding one iota to the information in the possession of
the committee.
Mr. Nixon. I think that is exactly the point I developed. As a
matter of fact, six people were named at one time or another as being
members of this group, though not all at the same time.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2851
Mr. Pressman. But not in the Department of Agriculture.
Mr. Nixon. Your point is that the three people you refer to were in
the Department of Agriculture?
Mr. Pressman. I have stated that repeatedly.
Mr. Nixon. And that they were the only three persons in the
Department of Agriculture who have been named as members of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. Wlio have been named as members of that group.-
Mr. NixoN. Then they have been named, haven't the}^?
Mr. Pressman. That is up to you to decide. Mr. Chairman, I am
not trying to quibble. I think we have a very important question
involved here, and it is up to the committee to decide.
Mr. Nixon. What is the question in your mind about the desir-
ability of naming these people? As I understand it, what you desire
to do is to be of assistance to this committee and to the Government
in taking effective action to stop the Communist movement within
the United States, since you yourself have indicated that you have
left the part}^ and that you oppose what the party is doing, what it is
standing for. It seems to me, certainly at this point, that you could
be of great assistance to the committee by corroborating charges
which have been made previously concerning individuals who have
been named. If some have been named falsely, or some have been
named correctly, I think your testimony could bear on that point
very effectively and it would be of assistance to the committee.
Mr. Walter. As I understand Mr. Pressman, he is fearful that in
mentioning those names, other people who feel as he does would be
discouraged from appearing before the committee.
Mr. Nixon. Because they would be fearful they would be asked
the same question?
Mr. Walter. Yes.
Mr. Nixon. I can understand the personal moral issue that Mr.
Pressman and Mr. Walter seem to be standing for. In other words,
they are concerned — and I can understand their concern — that any
individual who comes before a committee of Congress is hesitant to
expose his friends or his former friends, and that therefore, if an
individual like Mr. Pressman is forced to expose his friends or former
friends, other individuals who were members of the Communist
Party will not come to expose theu* friends. I state, and I think the
experience we have had over the years bears out the fact, that the
only way we can effectively get at the underground activities of the
Communist Party is through individuals who have broken with the
party and who can give us information. I think it is extremely
important at this time, if you, who have formerly been a member of
the Communist Party and are not now a member of the party, know
there were other members at the time you were, that you disclose
that information so that we can have it for our use.
Mr. Harrison. As a practical matter they have been named,
have they not?
Mr. Wood. Let me just ask a couple of questions. Do you have
knowledge of any other individuals being members of the Communist
Party other than the three you have said were in the Department of
Agriculture?
Mr. Pressman. The answer is absolutely not
Mr. Wood. At any time?
2852 COMMUNISM m the united states government
Mr. Pressman. That is correct, sir, except, of course-
Mr. Wood. In testimony presented before the committee, in the
group to which you belonged there hare only been three in the Depart-
ment of A^griculture, as I recall, who have been so identified, and it is
your testimony that there were three persons in the Department of
Agriculture who have been identified before this committee who were
members of your group?
Mr. Pressman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wood. It seems to me that is an answer to the question. I
personally am inclined to think it is a rather strained point the witness
is making in not mentioning the names, since we have them.
Mr. Pressman. Suppose you ask me other questions, Air. Congress-
man, and see if we can straighten out your problem.
Mr. Nixon. As I understand your answer to Mr. Wood's question — ■
and listen carefully to this question, because it is important — the
only people that you know who were members of the Communist
Party were the three individuals
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. Who were in AAA?
Mr. Pressman. I have said that I have no knowledge regarding
any individual other than the three members in m}^ group.
Mr. Nixon. The three members in AAA?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
'Mr. Nixon. And you loiow of no other members of the Communist
Party? You laiow of no other individuals who dealt with that
group?
Mr. Pressman. I have mentioned Harold Ware.
Mr. Nixon. There were no others than Harold Ware?
Mr. Pressman. Who were Government employees?
Mr. Nixon. Government employees or dealing with Government
employees.
Mr. Pressman. I am talking about Government employees.
Mr. Nixon. Then these three people were not the only individuals
who were members of the Communist Party to your knowledge?
Mr. Pressman. It is hard to answer
Mr. Nixon. That is a simple question. Were these three people
the only individuals known to you to be members of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Pressman. They were the three individuals who were members
of the group. I do not have any knowledge of the affiliation or non-
affiliation with the Communist Party of any other Government
employee.
Mr. Nixon. You have limited it to Government employees.
Mr. Pressman. I am waiting for any questions you may ask me
with respect to any person who is not a Government employee,
whether I do or do not have knowledge of his political affiliations.
Mr. Case. How many people were members of this group?
Mr. Pressman. Four.
Mr. Case. You have indicated there were four who were members
of the group within the Department of Agriculture. You have not
said there may not have been members of the group who were not
employees of the Department of Agriculture.
Mr. Pressman. There were only four members in the group,
including myself. All four of us were in the Department of Agri-
culture at the time.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2853
Mr. Case. You said Harold Ware recruited you into the Com-
munist Party. Was he an employee of the Department of Agriculture?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Case. Was he a member of the group?
Mr. Pressman. We did not consider him a member of the group.
Mr. Case. But you know he was a Communist?
Mr. Pressman. I assume so. He recruited me into the party.
Mr. Wood. Any further questions, Mr. Nixon?
Mr. Nixon. Yes. I think it is important to develop this point for
this reason: I think that we are certainly quibbling over whether or
not Mr. Pressman should be required to give the names of the mem-
bers of this group. I don't think the committee should set a precedent
that when an individual comes in as Mr. Pressman does — and we
appreciate his coming in — ho can come in and answer only those
questions he determines he should answer. I think he should be
required to answer the question before him about others in or out of
the Government who were members. I think it is extremely im-
portant that he answer the question, and that the precedent that
would be set if he is not required to answer would be a very bad one
to be set.
Just so there will be absolute clarity of the record, as I understand,
the records of this committee show that the three members of the
group who were in the Department of Agriculture were John Abt,
Nathan Witt, and Henry Collins?
Mr. Pressman. Henry Collins, to my laiowledge, was never an
emplo^^ee of the Department of Agriculture.
Mr. Nixon. Then for that reason you should answer the question.
Mr. Pressman. Your records are wrong.
Mr. Nixon. You yourself said you wanted to clear up distortions
about yourself, and I assume other individuals, in the files of this
committee. Apparently the files of the committee are wrong in
respect to Mr. Collins. Obviously Mr. Abt and Mr. Witt are two
of the members of the group. I think you should name the other one.
Nathan Witt and John Abt are two. That I am sure of myself. I
think Mr. Pressman should clear up who is the third one.
Mr. Wood. You say the record of this committee, if it includes
Collins, is wrong?
Mr. Pressman. I think your own record will show that Mr. Collins
was an employee of the National Recovery Administration and not
of the triple A.
Mr. Wood. I will ask j^ou to name the other employee of the
Department of Agriculture who was a member of the group.
Mr. Pressman. The third person among the individuals who have
been named as members of this group who was an employee of the
Department of Agriculture when I was in 1934 was Charles Kramer.
Mr. Wood. Charles who?
Mr. Pressman. Kramer, K-r-a-m-e-r. He was employed by the
Department of Agriculture at the time I was.
Mr. Wood. Any further questions on that point?
Mr. Case. You say Henry Collins at that time was an employee
of another branch of the Government?
Mr. Pressman. Are you stating a fact or asking me a question?
Mr. Case. I am asking you that question.
Mr. Pressman. I take that from your own record.
2854 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. "Wood. Did you know him?
Mr. Pressman. I knew him socially.
Mr. Wood. Did you know him as a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Pressman. I did not. He was not a member of my group.
Mr. Case. Were there other Government employees who were
members of your group?
Mr. Pressman. No, sir. I have stated there were only four.
Mr. Case. You have made a distinction between those who were
employees of the Department of Agriculture and other Government
employees.
Mr. Pressman. No. I have said there were four, only four, no
more, no less.
Mr. Nixon. Do I understand you to say that the only individuals
who were employees of the Government who were members of the
Communist Partv to your knowledge were these four?
Mr. Pressman. Repeat your ciuestion, sir?
Mr. Nixon. Were the only individuals who were employees of the
Government and who were members of the Communist Party to
your knowledge at any time these four and these four onl^?
Mr. Pressman. That is absolutely con-ect. Mr. Nixon, T am glad
you asked that question, because there has been, again, this wild
speculation in the press with all kinds of inside stories of what Mr.
Pressman is going to disclose. If you are asking me your questions
in anticipation that I am going to give you what I know as fact and
not as fiction, my knowledge is confined to preciselv what I have
testified to, and all the wild speculation of what I have done is com-
pletely distortion and speculation. The fact is exactly as I have
told it.
Mr. McSaveeney. May I ask a question?
Mr. Wood. Mr. McSweeney.
Mr. McSweeney. How would a man solicit your membership in
the Communist Party? This man W^are was a member?
Mr. Pressman. I assume he was a member of the Communist
Party, since he asked me to join.
Mr. Walter. Did he recruit all these other people in Agriculture?
Mr. Pressman. I do not know.
Mr. Walter. He was an adviser in the Department of Agriculture
from 1925 to 1932, was he not?
Mr. Pressman. I do not know. I came there in 193? or 1933.
Mr. McSweeney. How did he ask you to become a member?
Mr. Pressman. He stated the benefits and advantages of the
Communist Party and asked me to join, and for the reasons I have
stated I said "Yes".
Mr. Wood. One way we can have knowledge of Communist Party
membership is from the admission to others. Were you ever told
by any other fellow employee that he was a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Pressman. I was not. I have not been told by any other
person. I have not inquired. I cannot state of my own knowledge
that any other persons were members other than the members of my
group, namely, three persons other than myself.
Mr. Moulder. What was the function of or reason for having your
group of four?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2855
Mr. Pressman. I think it is advisable to explain that situation,
because, again, there has been what I consider to be considerable
misunderstanding. Bear with me, I am talking now solely of the
period during which I was a member of that group. During that
period what we did was receive literature of a Communist nature,
daily newspaper, monthly magazines, books, and things of that nature,
Communist literature ; we would read the literature and discuss prob-
lems covered by the literature.
Mr. Moulder. As a group?
Mr. Pressman. As a group.
Mr. Moulder. Did you have regular meetings?
Mr. Pressman. We would meet once a month or twice a month, as
the occasion developed, where we would be reading the literature and
discussing these problems.
Mr. Moulder. Would the four of the group be the only ones
present?
Mr. Pressman. Those four were usually the only ones present.
Mr. Wood. You say usually. Were there others present at any
time, and if so, who?
Mr. Pressman. This literature which I have described would be
brought down to Washington and delivered to one of the group.
Mr. Wood. By whom?
Mr. Pressman. It was not delivered to me during that period. It
was delivered to one of the others in the group.
Mr. Wood. You knew who delivered it?
Mr. Pressman. I just knew that it was an individual. Let me
make clear what my position is. My recollection by way of names of
people is that on one or two occasions at the most to my knowledge —
let me start again. Harold Ware was the person wiio stands out dis-
tinctly in my memory as the person who delivered the literature to the
group by delivering it to one of the group. I forget the precise date,
but sometime during that period he w^as killed in an automobile acci-
dent. That date is fairly close to the date that I left Washington.
Between the day of his death and the time I left Washington, when I
disconnected myself from the group, that literature came down, and I
have a hazy recollection — and I cannot state this as an afRrmative
fact — that one person on one such occasion who may have brought the
literature down and may have sat in with the group was this man
named Peters.
Mr. Wood. Do you know his first name?
Mr. Pressman. No. I just knew him as a man named Peters.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that a photograph of the man whom you knew
as Peters?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Wood. I believe, Mr. Counsel, the witness has answered your
original question. You may proceed with additional questions.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the photograph identified by the
witness in evidence, and ask that it be marked "Pressman Exhibit
No. 1."
Mr. Wood. Without objection it will be received.
(The photograph above referred to, marked "Pressman Exhibit
No. 1," is filed herewith.)
Mr. NixoN. When did you first meet Peters?
67052— 50— pt. 2 2
2856 coMMu>risM ix the united states government
Mr. Pressman. My recollection is that it was once, and possibly
twice. I would say definitely once. I can't remember the second
occasion.
Mr. Nixon. You say once and possibly twice?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct, which followed the death of
Harold Ware.
M.r. Nixon. As I understand your testimony, you met Peters
definitely on one occasion?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. And possibly on two occasions?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. "Where did you meet him?
Mr. Pressman. I do not remember. I recall I met him with the
group.
Mr. Nixon. Have you ever met Peters since you broke with the
Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. In later years I may have met him socially, because
as I recall his wife was secretary for some union and I may have seen
him on social occasions, but I had no organizational relationship with
him.
Mr. Nixon. How many times have you met Peters? You first
said you met him once and possibly twice.
Mr. Pressman. That is right, with the group.
Mr. Nixon. Then you have met him since you broke mth the
Communist Party.
Mr. Pressman. Under the circumstances I have stated.
Mr, Nixon, You say they were purely social occasions?
Mr. Pressman. To the best of my recollection that is correct.
Mr. Nixon. You recall no business relations with Peters after 1935?
Mr. Pressman. To the best of my recollection that is correct.
Mr. Moulder. May I ask counsel to continue the questions along
the line I started, as to who was present at the meetings other than
the four.
Mr. Wood. Let counsel proceed, then the members of the committee
will have an opportunity to ask such cjuestions as they may desire.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you Imow J. Peters by any other name?
Mr. Pressman. No, I did not, just as Peters.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know his occupation?
Mr. Pressman. I Imew him as a member of the Communist Party
who came to Washington under the circumstances I have stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did he appear at your meetings?
Mr. Pressman. On one occasion, or possibly twice,
Mr. Tavenner. What did he do at the meetings?
Mr. Pressman. Participated in our discussions.
Mr. Tavenner. Did he make a talk to the group?
Mr, Pressman. My recollection is on that occasion 15 or 16 years
ago he merely participated in the discussion we were having.
Mr. Tavenner. Who were the other persons who attended your
meetings?
Mr. Pressman. In addition to members of the group?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, and in addition to Mr. Peters.
M.r. Pressman. In addition to members of the group those are the
only persons I recall attending our meetings during the period I was
there.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2857
Mr. Tavenner. Wliere were those meetings held?
Mr. Pressman. Usually at our respective homes; sometimes at
some place other than our respective homes; maybe once or twice
elsewhere. The incident would not stand out in my recollection
particularly.
Mr. Tavenner. To whom did you pay your Communist Party
dues?
Mr. Pressman. Usually the person who came and delivered our
literature would accept our dues.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you pay dues only twice during that year?
Mr. Pressman. No. Harold Ware would come down more
frequently, obviously.
Mr. Tavenner. Then who were the persons to whom you paid
your Communist Party dues?
Mr. Pressman. I have just stated, Harold Ware, and Peters on
the occasion he came down.
Mr. Tavenner. Where there any others?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Were any of the other employees of AAA members
of that group before you joined, or did they join after you?
Mr. Pressman. Air. Counsel, I have attempted, as I was preparing
for this meeting, to refresh my recollection, and, frankly I cannot state
acciu-ately just what the order of precedence was, how it occurred.
I believe others may have joined the party before I did. In any event,
there wasn't a long period of time between the others and myself.
My recollection is we all appeared about the same time.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you recruit any of those members in the organ-
ization?
Mr. Pressman. I did not.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you endeavor to recruit any of those members
in the organization?
Mr. Pressman. I did not endeavor to recruit any of those individ-
uals, and have not endeavored to recruit any individual into the
party from 1932 to date.
Mr. Tavenner. Who were the officials of this group or cell to which
you belonged?
Mr. Pressman, We had no officials. It was just a gi'oup.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there not a leader of that group, or someone
in charge?
Mr. Pressman. There was absolutely no leader. We were a group.
However, it may make a much more colorful story for me to talk about
leaders, but giving you facts, this is precisely what occurred; we were
a group. If there was a task to perform, one individual would be
assigned to that task, such as receiving literature. If there were dues
to be collected, an individual would be assigned to the task of collect-
ing dues. It would be left to the discretion of an individual to call
the next meeting and arrange whether it would be at my home or at
the home of another member. That is the way it worked out during
the period I was in the group.
(Hon. Francis E. Walter left the hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of assignments being given to various
ones to do certain jobs. Wlio made the assignments?
Mr. Pressman. The members of our group, or by volunteering.
One would say, "I will do this or that," or we agreed to do this or that,
2858 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
just in the same fashion you and I may do in an organization to which
we belonged.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ware had connections with other groups of
the Communist Party in the city of Washington, did he not?
Air. Pressman. I have no knowledge of that fact.
Mr. Tavenner. You mean you were not with him when he had
connections with other groups?
Mr. Pressman. I mean I have no knowledge of the fact.
(Hon. Morgan M. Moulder left the hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Did your group ever meet with any other group of
Communists?
Mr. Pressman. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you discuss in any of your meetings the
possibility or advisability that some of your members should meet
with members of another group?
Mr. Pressman. There was no such discussion at any meeting which
I attended. May I at this point make an observation?
Mr. Wood. If it is not too lengthy, yes.
Mr. Pressman. I observe the note of surprise in the voice of counsel
regarding the functioning of this group, and I take it that appears
because of a highly different type of discussion of the operation of the
group that may have been furnished here by Mr. Chambers, for
example.
I make two points: First, Mr. Chambers, nowhere in the entire
record, to my knowledge — I may be wrong about this; I haven't
studied the record as carefully as possibly counsel for the committee
has done — to my knowledge Mr. Chambers does not once state that
he attended the meetings and met me at any meeting of the group.
There was always the inference he knew of us as a group, but not that
he met me at the meetings.
Secondly, to show you how inaccuracies can develop, on page 576
of the record of the proceedings of this committee you Avill find an
exchange between Mr. Chambers and Mr. Hebert. Air. Chambers I
quote first:
After I had been in Washington a while it was very clear that some of the mem-
bers of these groups were going places in the Government.
And I quote Mr. Hebert:
What year is this?
Mr. Chambers:
I would think about 1936. One of them clearly was Alger Hiss, and it was
believed that Henry Collins also might go farther. Also was Lee Pressman.
And there is some more comment, and he says they decided to sepa-
rate some of these people, and so on.
Now, get that. In 1936, as a matter of public record, Lee Pressman
was in the city of New York. Chambers has me going high in Gov-
ernment places, and Lee Pressman is in the city of New York, having
left Washington and the Government service a year before.
Mr. Wood. Let us not labor the point. Air. Pressman. I think your
answer was responsive to the question. Any further questions?
Mr. Tavenner. Are you familiar with what is loiown as a member
at large of the Communist Party?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2859
Mr. Pressman. Franldy, I am not. I can just guess from what
you say that a member at large would be a member who is not a
member of a group.
Mr. Tavenner. And do you know that such a member does not pay
Communist Party dues, normally?
Mr. Pressman. I do not know that of my own knowledge.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you not know that such an individual's
membership is entirely separate and distinct from a membership in a
cell, and that he is connected with just a few superiors in the party?
Mr. Pressman. I repeat that I do not have any such laiowledge
at all.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you discuss with any of the other members of
your group who were employees of the AAA their uniting with this
cell before they actually joined?
Mr. Pressman. I am not sure I get the point of that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you discuss with any of the other employees
in the AAA their uniting with this Communist Party cell before they
united with it?
Mr. Pressman. I did not. I was solicited to join the Communist
Party by Harold Ware. AVlien I assented, he advised me where I was
to attend a meeting of the group. Wlien I came to the meeting of that
group I found these three other members of the group, whose entrance
into the Communist Party and the date I do not recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you talk to any of those persons prior to
uniting with the party?
Mr. Pressman. About joining the party?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Pressman. The answer is no.
Mr. Tavenner. \Ylmt other units or branches of the Communist
Party were in existence in Washington while you were here and a
member of the party?
Mr. Pressman. I have answered that before, sir. I had no informa-
tion of any other group.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know who succeeded Ware upon his death
in the duties that he performed in the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I have already told you. Mr. Peters came down
after his, death.
Mr. Tavenner. Any other person?
Mr. Pressman. Not to my recollection.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Victor Perlo?
Mr. Pressman. I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he was connected with this
cell or branch of the party at any time after you left it?
Mr. Pressman. That I do not know.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Mrs. Helen Ware, the wife of Harold
Ware?
Mr. Pressman. I have met her socially.
Mr. Tavenner. Did she ever attend one of these Communist
Party meetings?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Tavenner. I was mistaken about her being the wife of Harold
Ware. I think she is the sister of Harold Ware. Did you ever meet
the sister of Harold Ware?
2860 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Pressman. What is her name?
Mr. Tavenner. Helen.
Mr. Pressman. Helen Ware?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Pressman. I have never met Helen Ware. I thought you
were referring to the wife of Mr. Ware ; I am sorry.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the wife's first name?
Mr. Pressman. The widow of Harold Ware?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Pressman. I think her first name was Jessica.
Mr. Tavenner. You left the city of Washington for private
employment in New York in the summer of 1936, about June, I
believe you said, or was it later than that?
Mr. Pressman. I said the latter part of 1935.
Mr. Tavenner. The later part of 1935?
Mr. Pressman. I know this, sir, I can't give you the precise date,
but it was in the winter of 1935-36. I loiow it was in the winter
because when we moved up to New York on Riverside Drive we en-
countered the winter wind, which fixes it in my mind that it was in
the winter of 1935-36.
Mr. Tavenner. How soon after that was it you took the position
as general counsel of the CIO?
Mr. Pressman. I am afraid you may not have listened to me before.
Mr. Tavenner. First it was the Steelworkers Organizing Commit-
tee?
Mr. Pressman. Yes. It was m June 1936 that I was asked by
Mr. Lewis to be general counsel of the Steelworkers Organizing Com-
mittee. And may I clear up a point at this juncture?
Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask a question, and then you can clear it
up. Did you tell Mr. Lewis that you had been a member of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Tavenner. And how soon after that did you accept employ-
ment as general counsel of the CIO?
Mr. Pressman. I have stated that. I think it was in 1938.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you tell Mr. Philip Murray that you had been
a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. The answer is ""No," but Phihp Murray was not
president of the CIO at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. John L. Lewis was?
Mr. Pressman. Yes. The answer is "No" to your question.
Mr. Tavenner. After Mr. Murray became president, did you at
any time tell him you had been a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. The answer is "No."
Mr. Tavenner. Did you tell anyone connected with the CIO that
you had been a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. The answer is "No."
Mr. Case. Would your answer be the same as to Harry Hopkins?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Case. Would your answer be the same as to
Mr. Pressman. Mr. Wallace and Mr. Jerome Frank and Mr.
Tugwell.
Mr. Tavenner. You state you severed your connection with the
Communist Party. To whom did you give notice of that severance
of connection?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2861
Mr. Pressman. When I left the city of Washington I advised the
group — and I beheve on that occasion Mr. Peters may have been
present — that I was leaving the city of Washington, leaving the
Federal Government, and I was disassociating myself from the group,
or the Communist Party, or any group of the Communist Party.
Mr. Wood. Were all members of the group present when you
made that assertion?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Air. Tavenner. Did you assign any reason for doing so?
Mr. Pressman. I think the most precise way I can put it is to say,
as I have stated before, that I wanted to leave the Federal Govern-
ment, that I was going back to the city of New York, and that I
preferred from that moment on, at least, in iny private practice, not
to have organizational relationship with the Communist Party, such
as being a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. That did not mean that you had severed all con-
nection with the Communist Party, did it?
Mr. Pressman. At that time?
Mr, Tavenner, Yes.
Mr. Pressman, At that time it did not.
Mr, Tavenner. Tell the committee about your subsequent con-
nection with the Communist Party.
Mr. Pressman. Over the past number of years I have had contacts
and dealings with known leaders of the Communist Party whom I
have met from time to time.
Mr. Tavenner. And what was the nature of those contacts which
you have mentioned?
Mr. Pressman. They would discuss with me their viewpoints, their
recommendations, and suggestions, with respect to organizational ac-
tivities of the CIO while I was counsel for the CIO. I discussed those
problems with these people. Wlien they made recommendations or
suggestions which I deemed to be of assistance or helpful to the CIO,
I accepted them.
I state here now, as categorically as I can, that at no time from 1936
until 1948 did I take instructions or directives from anyone, including
these leaders of the Communist Party, which were contrary to the
established policy of the CIO. The only persons who gave me in-
structions or directives while I was with the CIO were the official
officers of the CIO. And here now I challenge anyone to point to a
single act or utterance of mine while I was with the CIO, Mr. Chair-
man, which was contrary to the established policy of the CIO.
Mr. Case. But you did receive instructions during the period you
were a member of the Communist Party and in the Department of
Agriculture?
Mr. Pressman. I would say I do not recall instructions as such, Mr,
Congressman, because in the kind of work I was then doing there was
nothing I could be instructed about.
Mr. Nixon. Mr. Pressman, can I go back a moment to your break
with the party. You said you wanted no organizational relationship
with the party?
Mr. Pressman. In the sense of considering myself a member com-
pletely committed to all the policies and doctrmes of the Communist
Party.
Mr. Nixon. Was your break in 1935 an ideological break with the
party?
2862 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Pressman. I would say not completely.
Mr. Nixon. Following that, and relating to your service with the
CIO, can you indicate to the committee any instances during the
time you were with the CIO when the policy of the CIO was different
from that of the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I think the question might be put the other way,
namely: When did the Communist Party policy differ from that
established by the CIO? I think it is unfair to the CIO to suggest
that they were following the policies of the Communist Party.
Mr. Nixon. Take the period of the Hitler-Stalin pact. What was
the policy of the CIO then?
Mr. Pressman. That pact was in 1939?
Mr. Nixon. I believe you know.
Mr. Pressman. In October or November 1939 the CIO had a
convention in the city of San Francisco. At that time it adopted a
resolution regarding its viewpoint concerning the position of the
United States in the international conflict. That resolution was
formulated by none other than the leaders of the CIO at that time.
It was unanimously adopted by the executive board of the CIO and
by the entire convention of the CIO. That was October 1939. I
see you have a copy of that resolution before you.
Mr. Nixon. Not the whole resolution, but a portion of it.
Mr. Pressman. You can read that in the record if you want to.
Mr. Nixon. There were a number of resolutions adopted by the
CIO. The one you refer to read that the CIO was opposed to any
foreign entanglement that might involve us in a foreign war. That
was immediately after the Hitler-Stalin pact. I might say in Novem-
ber 1940, 1 year later, when Lee Pressman was secretary of the resolu-
tions committee, the same resolution was passed.
Mr. Pressman. Would you add for the record that that resolution
was adopted by the executive board of the CIO and the entire con-
vention of the CIO.
Mr. Nixon. I don't doubt that it was. I am merely pointing out
that, in this period, which is rather significant, in at least two different
amiual conventions, the CIO did not deviate from the Communist
Party line.
Mr. Pressman. Mr. Nixon, if I may say, without being in any
way coy about it, I think at the same time substantially the entire
leadership of the Kepublican Party was taking the same position.
Mr. Nixon. For the same reason?
Mr. Pressman. I don't know. I don't recall what the reason may
have been in the CIO. The leaders of the CIO made the decision.
Mr. Nixon. Let us go up a year to 1941. In 1941 the leaders of
the Republican Party — that was after Hitler marched into Ger-
many
Mr. Pressman. Marched into Russia.
Mr. Nixon. I am sorry. I think you will see the stand of the
Republican Party to which you refer was the same.
Mr. Pressman. You know better than I do.
Mr. Nixon. You seem to know what the stand was in 1939 and 1940.
Mr. Pressman. Because that issue has repeatedly arisen.
Mr. Nixon. Certainly there were some people in the Republican
Party, and some in the Democratic Party, who were for neutrality
during the Hitler-Stalin Pact and until Pearl Harbor; but the sig-
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2863
nificant fact is that in November 1941, before Pearl Harbor, the CIO
adopted a resolution which I quote: "Support of all possible aid to
Great Britain, the Soviet Union, and China."
Do you know of any instance during the time you were general
counsel of the CIO when the policy of the CIO deviated from that of
the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. That is a very hard question.
Mr. Nixon. I recognize it is a hard question.
Mr. Pressman. I remember one specific instance which would
nail any false impression that may have occurred in the colloquy
between us in the last few moments. I believe it was in the early
part of 1941, before, let us say, June 21, 1941, the date of the invasion
by Germany of the Soviet Union or Russia, that lend-lease was up.
I was requested by President Murray to work with him on a statement
which he issued at that time respecting lend-lease. The bill was then
before Congress. Mr. Philip Murray was then president of the CIO,
having come into the presidency in November, I believe, 1940, or
December. That statement, on which I worked with Mr. Murray,
gave complete support to the lend-lease program, and that statement
was issued to Members of Congress as a matter of public record, and
at that time the Communist Party was bitter!}^ opposed to the lend-
lease program. That is one instance that stands out in my memory.
Mr. Nixon. At what convention was that resolution adopted?
Mr. Pressman. It was not a resolution. It was a statement
issued by President Murray of the CIO supporting the lend-lease
program in February or March 1941, and I shared in the preparation
of that statement.
Mr. Nixon. I note also in the convention I have mentioned a
resolution was adopted supporting Harry Bridges.
Mr. Pressman. That was done throughout all the conventions,
because the CIO determined at that time in its own wisdom that
as a leader in a trade union the 7 would give him their support.
Mr. Nixon. It since has determined in its own wisdom that it
should not support Harry Bridges?
Mr. Pressman. I believe so, from the public press.
Mr. Nixon. Do you agree with that present stand of the CIO?
Mr. Pressman. You mean the ouster of Bridges from the CIO?
Mr. Nixon. Do you agree with the CIO in the ouster of Harry
Bridges?
Mr. Pressman. I am of the opinion that the position of the CIO,
and specificallv that of Philip Murray, in relation to what the CIO
has condemned as left-wing organizations, is a correct one.
Mr. Nixon. You know Harry Bridges?
Mr. Pressman. I have met him repeatedly, surely. That was
my job as general counsel of the CIO, to work with all leaders of the
CIO. But may I go back to differences between the CIO and the
Communist Party. The CIO convention of 1940 adopted a resolution
condemning communism. I assure you that was not the position
of the Communist Party at that time.
Mr. Nixon. Did you support the resolution?
Mr. Pressman. I did. I was secretary of the resolutions committee
and it was adopted by unanimous consent of the resolutions com-
mittee. I read the resolution at the convention.
Mr. Case. Then why didn't you cooperate with the committee
when you were before it since tl*«rt time?
2864 COMMUXISM IX THE UXITED STATES GOVERXMEXT
Mr. Pressman. Mr. Congressman, will you concede or grant me
the privilege of having differences of opinion regarding this com-
mittee?
Mr. Case. That may be, but if you want to go on record as saying
that in 1940 you helped prepare and present a resolution opposing
communism, vvh}' didn't you, when you were before the committee
since that time, cooperate with the committee?
Mr. Pressman. I was trying to say to you, Mr. Congressman, that
with all due deference to the members of this committee, I, for one,
and I think there are others in a similar position, have their view-
point regarding communism, being opposed to it, who do not agree
with what this committee has done in certain situations; and there-
fore, when you ask for cooperation, 3^ou must recall that this com-
mittee has done many things with which, whether they be large or
small, segments of the population disagree.
Mr. Case. That may be, but that does not answer the question
why you yourself failed to make clear 370ur break with communism.
Mr. Pressman. I can't do more than state what I have said.
Mr. Case. I don't think you can.
Mr. Nixon. Let me develop that point. I think, as you say, there
are people who have an honest difference of opinion about this com-
mittee, and I think that, coming from me, may come as a surprise to
you. But by the same token, why did you refuse to cooperate with
the FBI?
Mr. Pressman. How do j^ou know I did? Are you stating that as
a fact?
Mr. Nixon. I am asking if you have conveyed to the FBI this in-
formation you are giving the committee today?
Mr. Pressman. I have not.
Mr. Nixon. Have you been asked?
Mr. Pressman. Not yet.
Mr. Nixon. The FBI has not asked you to give it information con-
cerning your break with the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. They have not.
Mr. Nixon. Have they ever?
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. Nixon. When?
Mr. Pressman. About 2}^ years ago.
Mr. Nixon. What did you do?
Mr. Pressman. I took the same position as I did before this com-
mittee about 2)^ years ago.
Mr. Nixon. W'hat was the basis for your refusing to give informa-
tion to the FBI?
Mr. Pressman. My best judgment at that time.
Mr. Nixon. That means you had the same feeling about the FBI
as you did about this committee?
Mr. Pressman. There are things about the FBI with which I
would disagree, surely.
Mr. Nixon. The FBI is the investigative branch of the Govern-
ment. It, too, may make mistakes, but the FBI has the duty of
investigating not only subversive activities but investigating charges
of espionage and the like. You have stated that you would not talk
to this committee because you didn't like the methods of this commit-
tee. I think that is what you said, in essence.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2865
Mr. Pressman. I said what I felt two and a half years ago.
Mr. Nixon. What was your reason for refusing to cooperate with
the Justice Department — the FBI?
Mr. Pressman. Two and a half years ago?
Mr. NixoN. Yes; when you had broken with the Communist Party
and vigorously supported a resolution opposing communism?
Mr. Pressman. Let me make it clear. My complete break as a
matter of profound convictions has been made at this time.
Air. Nixon. Just a moment. In other words, do I understand the
break in 1935 was not a complete break?
Mr. Pressman. Let me finish.
Mr. Nixon. I want the record clear.
Mr. Pressman. I will make it clear if 3^ou will let me finish. As of
this time there is a complete, absolute ideological break. Just be
patient.
Mr. Nixon. I am waiting.
Mr. Pressman. You asked me before whether when I left Wash-
ington there was a complete ideological break back in 1935, and I
said no. I am trying the best I can to give an expression of what I
felt. I cited the resolution of 1940, and a similar resolution I believe
in 1945 or 1946, to demonstrate this. Even after those resolutions
were adopted I met with leaders of the Communist Party, as I did
before, but I cited those resolutions to show that, while I met with
them and dealt with them, they did not direct my activities or my
opinions or beliefs.
Air. Case, What you are trying to say is that it was not a pro-
found conviction in 1940 when you presented the resolution opposing
communism?
Mr, Pressman. I presented it on behalf of the resolutions com-
mittee.
Mr. Nixon. Did you agree with the resolution?
Mr. Pressman. At that time I thought it was a mistake.
Mr. Nixon. Did you support the resolution?
Mr, Pressman. At that time I thought it was a mistake, but I
supported it.
Mr, Harrison. You didn't w-ant to break with A4!urray over that
resolution at that time; is that why you went along?
Mr. Pressman. I took the opinion of the majority of the resolu-
tions committee because I was a servant of the CIO.
Mr. Harrison. You didn't want to have a break with the CIO
at that time?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct,
Mr. AIcSweeney. Did you have a vote on that resolution?
Mr. Pressman. I did.
Mr. McSwEENEY. You were secretary?
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. Harrison. When did the officers of the CIO learn of your
affiliation with the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I do not know.
Mr. Harrison. Did they ever ask you about it?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Harrison. Even after your appearance before this committee?
Mr. Pressman. I was not their counsel at that time. .
2866 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Harrison. Weren't you counsel for Murray and others in
their indictments imder the Taft-Hartley Act?
Mr. Pressman. That was before my appearance before this
committee in 1948.
Mr. Harrison. When did you become counsel for Murray and
others?
Mr. Pressman. I believe 1948.
Mr. Harrison. When did Chambers testify?
Mr. Pressman. July or August 1948, I believe.
Mr. Harrison. Then you wer.e coim.ected with the CIO as counsel
at the time he testified?
Mr. Pressman. My recollection is that case had already been
decided.
Mr. Harrison. Had been decided?
Mr. Pressman. That is my recollection.
Mr. Harrison. No officer of the CIO ever inquired of you as to
your membership in the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. That is my recollection.
Mr. Harrison. Have you ever been expelled from the Communist
Party?
Mr. Pressman. I received no notice of expulsion.
Mr. Harrison. That is their procedure, is it not?
Mr. Pressman. No. To my mind, when I left that was my
departure from the Communist Party.
jMr. Harrison. They did not notify you?
Mr. Pressman. No; but I left.
Mr. Nixon. Organizationall}^ speaking?
Mr. Pressman. As a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Nixon. Organizationally speaking?
Mr. Pressman. As a member of the Communist Party.
Mr, Nixon. We won't quibble.
Mr. Pressman. I hope we won't.
Mr. Wood. Didn't you say a moment ago that when you left you
didn't want any organizational connection?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Harrison. There has been a rumor for years back that you
were a member of the Communist Party, and no officer of the CIO,
John L. Lewis or Philip Murray or any other officer of the CIO, ever
asked you if that was true or not?
Air. Pressman. That is correct. You see, there have been plenty
of rumors in the press as to Communist membership of other leaders
of the CIO. If they gave heed to all the rumors, they would have a
difficult task.
Mr. Nixon. So that the record may be clear on the matter of your
statement with reference to giving the FBI the same answers you
gave this committee, as I understand now, the reason for yoin* refusal
to talk to the FBI was slightly different from your reason for refusing
to talk to the committee?
Air. Pressman. You mean two and a half years ago?
Mr. Nixon. Yes. Or were they the same?
Air. Pressman. Trying to throw myself back to two and a half years
ago, at that time it would not be correct to say that my ideological
break was as complete as today.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2867
Mr. Nixon. You mean to say, as I understand it, that your ideo-
logical break with the party had not reached the point where you
were willing to give any testimony that might be harmful to the party?
Mr. Pressman. Not to the party, but that might be harmful to
me, too.
Mr. Nixon. Harmful to you how?
Mr. Pressman. If you remember the wild accusations that were
floating around in 1948.
Mr. Nixon. You could have answered those accusations.
Mr. Pressman. But by people who were not adhering completely
to the truth.
Mr. Nixon. You had the same opportunity then as today to cor-
rect those mistakes.
Mr. Pressman. That may be true. Today I hope I can correct
those mistakes.
Mr, Nixon. You could have talked to the FBI, couldn't you?
Mr. Pressman. *I see in the morning Herald Tribune a story that
they came to me and I rebuffed them. Where do they get these
stories? With respect to the FBI, any relations I had with the FBI
is a matter between them and me, whatever that may be. With
respect to this committee, I will answer all questions propounded to
me with respect to my present or past activities.
Mr. Case. Have you had any connection with the Government
since 1935?
Mr. Pressman. I do not believe so. I have no recollection of any
whatever.
Mr. Case. You returned to Washington in 1938?
Mr. Pressman. Yes. I was general counsel to the CIO at that
time.
Mr. Case. When did you leave the CIO?
Mr. Pressman. February 1948.
Mr. Case. What did you do then?
Mr. Pressman. I went into the private practice of law in New
York City.
Mr. Case. And you have had no consulting relationship with any
branch of the Government since 1935?
Mr. Pressman. Absolutely none.
Mr. Harrison. For what miions have you appeared as counsel
since the resumption of your private practice in 1948?
Mr. Pressman. My firm represented the Fur Workers Union,
Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers, and Food and Tobacco Workers,
and the United Public Workers, too, I believe.
Mr. Harrison. And they have all been expelled from the CIO?
Mr. Pressman. I believe so.
Mr, Wood. Are you still counsel for them?
- Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Wood. When did you sever your connection with them as
counsel?
Mr. Pressman. November 1949, before their expulsion.
Mr. Wood. Less than a year ago?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. Did I understand you to say in 1935 you were counsel
for two agencies of the Government?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct, but getting a salary from one.
2868 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Nixon. I am not quibbling about salary. What were those
agencies?
Mr. Pressman. Works Progress Administration and I believe the
Resettlement Administration. I believe it was then called the Farm
Security Administration, and subsequently changed its name to the
Resettlement Administration.
Mr. Case. Wasn't it the other way around?
Mr. Pressman. It may be.
Mr. Nixon. During the period you were counsel for those two
Government agencies, you were an active member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Case. While you were counsel for Mr. Tugwell's Resettlement
Administration, did you set up the plans for State medical associa-
tions?
Mr. Pressman. I had nothing to do with that.
Mr. Case. That was one of the things sponsored- by that agency?
Mr. Pressman. Yes, but I was merely counsel.
Mr. Case. Did you pass on that?
Mr. Pressman. That was done locally. Every State or regional
unit had its own attorneys, and that did not come through my office.
The only reason I happen to remember is that I do know that raised
such an issue in Congress at that time that it stands out in my memory
as something there was a great hullabaloo about nationally, and I was
not involved because it was being handled by local attorneys,
Mr. Case. Who passed on whether funds of the Federal Govern-
ment could be used locally?
Mr. Pressman. The administrator of the agency at the time I was
counsel.
Mr. Case. Administratively, they determined the funds could be
used without consulting you?
Mr. Pressman. Very frequently administrators do not consult their
counsel.
Mr. Case. The question came up whether or not the money was
properly expended. It is difficult for me to understand why you
were not consulted.
Mr. Pressman, ^^^len a man gets in public service he acts no
differently in relation to his lawyer than he does when not in the
Government service. He may consult his lawyer and he may not.
I recall I was not consulted in that relation.
Mr. Case. Wlien you received Communist literature, what did you
do with it?
Mr. Pressman. Analyzed it. If you mean whether we did any-
thing about it in the agency in which we worked, the answer is "No."
Mr. Case. Just a mutual admiration society?
Mr. Pressman. No. We would read the literature and analyze it.
Mr. Case. No attempt was made to carry it out in the activities
in which you were engaged?
Mr. Pressman. At that time, if you bear in mind the agencies
with which I was working, namely. Agriculture, WPA, the Resettle-
ment Administration, there was no occasion to carry into that work
the kind of literature we were receiving.
Mr. Case. My recollection is, Harold Ware came back from Russia
to infiltrate agricultural movements of the country and to establish
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2869
there the principles of communism, and Harold Ware is the man who
recruited you into the party?
Mr. Pressman. I cannot tell you about his activities, I can tell
you about my own activities.
Mr. McSwEENEY. Did you ever read anything in this literature
that you thought 3'ou might try as an experiment in the Department
of Agriculture?
Mr. Pressman. I do not recall anything.
Mr. Case. You had an iron curtain between your activities in the
Department of Agriculture and the things you discussed in your
group meetings?
Mr. Pressman. You are commenting. You are not asking a
question.
Mr. Case. Did you or did you not carry over into your activities
as an official of the Department of Agriculture any of the things
which you discussed in your group meetings?
Mr. Pressman. I did not.
Mr. Case. Then you did have an iron curtain between the two?
Mr. Pressman. That is your comment.
Mr. Nixon. Did I understand you to say that you had not attempted
to obtain Government positions for any members of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Pressman. I am awfully glad you asked that question. I
haven't answered that yet. I will now. I did get a position in the
legal division of the Department of Agriculture for Mr. Nathan Witt,
whom I knew in New York as an attorney. Beyond that one posi-
tion, Mr. Congressman, I don't recall, in the year or two I was in
the Government and all the years I was with the CIO, any single
individual for whom I got a position in the Federal Government.
I want to emphasize that as vehemently as I can because of expres-
sions that have appeared in the public press that in some fantastic
fashion I was responsible for a whole group of people in the Federal
Government.
Mr. Case. Were you responsible for Nathan Witt coming into the
Communist group?
Mr. Pressman. I answered that; no.
Mr. Case. Did he know you were a member when he became a
member?
Mr. Pressman. I answered that by saying when I joined the party
and was asked to attend a meeting, he was there.
Mr. Nixon. When you left the group in 1935, did any other mem-
bers of the group leave with you?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. Do you know if any other members of the group have
since severed their connection with the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I do not know because I have not at any time
thereafter asked any individual or secured any information on that
issue.
Mr. Nixon. Have you seen Nathan Witt since 1935?
Mr. Pressman. Yes. As you know, I was a partner of his from
from February 1948 until November 1949.
Mr. Nixon. You were a partner of his from February 1948 until
November 1949?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
2870 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Nixon. And you don't know whether he is still a member of
the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I have not asked and I do not know as a fact.
Mr. Nixon. Have you had any conversation that would indicate
he was?
Mr. Pressman. No, nor any circumstances under which I can make
a fair inference with respect to it.
Mr. Nixon. What about John Abt; when did you last see him?
Mr. Pressman. I think the last time I saw him may have been
around 1948 or 1949. There has been a considerable time in the recent
past that I have not seen him; and the same with respect to Charles
Kramer.
Mr. Nixon. You do not know whether they are now members of
the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I do not.
Mr. Nixon. You do not loiow whether they have broken with the
Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. That is an unfair question. That implies they
were.
Mr. Nixon. You said they were.
Mr. Pressman. Let us not quibble.
Mr. Nixon. Are you now saying John Abt, Nathan Witt, and
Charles Ki^amer were not members of the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. You have asked whether I know if they are mem-
bers of the Communist Party today.
Mr. Nixon. Or whether they have broken from the Communist
Party.
Mr. Pressman. I am answering now as to their present member-
ship. I do not know.
Mr. Nixon. Do you know whether or not any one of these three
men broke from the Communist Party since 1935?
Mr. Pressman. Let me ask the decision of the chairman.
Mr. Wood. You can answer whether you loiow or not if they have
broken from the Communist Party.
Mr. Pressman. I can answer by saying I do not know.
Mr. Case. In your own employment, did you have civil service
status?
Mr. Pressman. I don't think civil service applied at that time,
in 1935.
Mr. Case. Did you file Form 57?
Mr. Pressman. I don't know what that form is.
Mr. Case. The standard form for Government employment.
Mr. Pressman. I don't know what that form is.
Mr. Case. Was your employment subject to Senate confirmation?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Case. You were appointed solely on the responsibility of the
head of the agency or the Secretary of Agriculture?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. McSweeney. You had to take an oath, did you not?
Mr. Pressman. Oh, yes,
Mr. Nixon. I think you will recall at the time you appeared in
this room in 1948, at that same session Mr. Witt and Mr. Abt ap-
peared, and on that occasion, as you know, each of you refused to
answer questions on constitutional grounds. Did you, before or
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 287]
after that hearing, discuss with them the procedure you would follow
or had followed in appearing before the committee?
Mr. Pressman. Substantially, each made his own decision.
Mr. Nixon. Did you discuss it with them?
Mr. Pressman. Yes, but each made his own decision.
Mr. Nixon. And you have not discussed or learned since then as to
Avhether they were still members of the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. That is right. I have been most careful about not
making such inquiries of any human being.
Mr. NixoN. Is the inference that such inquiry should not be made?
Mr. Pressman. No. I just said I did not.
Mr. Case. And you did not think you should make that inquiry
when you went in partnership with Mr. Witt?
Mr. Pressman. I make no inquiry as to political affiliation.
Mr. Nixon. Do you consider membership in the Communist Party
a political affiliation?
Mr. Pressman. At this point; no.
Mr. Wood. When you formed your law partnership with Mr. Witt,
did you consider membership in the Communist Party an ordinary
political affiliation?
Mr. Pressman. My position today is not mv position in February
1948.
Mr. Wood. That is not an answer to the question.
Mr. Pressman. I think it is. My viewpoint in February 1948 in
regard to the Communist Party is not the viewpoint I have today.
Mr. Wood. In February 1948 was it your belief that membership
in the Communist Party was an ordinary political affiliation?
Mr. Pressman. I was prepared at that time to accept the premise
that it was.
Mr. Wood. Did you?
Mr. Pressman. At that time?
Mr. Wood. Yes.
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. McSweeney. After you joined this group of four, did you feel
anything had gone on that violated your oath?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. McSweeney. Nothing went on that you felt violated your
oath?
Mr. Pressman. That is absolutely correct.
Mr. Nixon. The Korean incident occurred the latter part of June.
Your publicized break with the American Labor Party occurred
August 10, as I recall. During that intervening period, do I under-
stand you were unable to make up your mind as to whether or not
you were going to make a complete ideological break?
Mr. Pressman. Mr. Nixon, I am very happy you asked that
question, because it affords an opportunity of describing something
to you which I have not yet made clear. In my opening statement I
made an observation ^that the position which I am now taking stems
from what I consider to be very profound convictions. That is a
conclusion that one does not reach at 6 p. m., on the night of August 1 1 .
That is a conclusion — at least with a person such as myself who has
strong convictions and strong beliefs — that takes time for me, at
least, to formulate.
67052— 50— pt. 2 3
2872 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
T, during the period of the past at least a year, and possibly even
longer, but at least a year, as some of my friends know, have begun to
consider this basic problem; and when I became firmly convinced,
perhaps I was late, later than others; perhaps I made more mistakes
than others; if so, that can only be laid at the doorstep of mv bad
judgment or the fact I am not as acute as I am supposed to be;
but when I made my decision, I wanted to make my position publicly
known. I made my position known before I was given any subpena
to appear before this committee. I made my position known of my
own accord. I made it public so that everybody could know exactly
where I stand. If you ask me why I didn't make it known the day
after the Korean incident, it is because in the formulation of my con-
victions it takes time.
Mr. Nixon. You mean the fact that the United States had become
involved in a war with Communist aggressors was not in itself sufficient
to hasten the decision?
Mr. Pressman. It did hasten my decision.
Mr. Nixon. But you could not make it at that time?
Mr. Pressman. But I was formulating the situation in my own
mind, trying to decide how I should say it, what I should say, whether
I should simply step aside, or what I should do. This was not an
easy decision to make.
Mr. Nixon. Do I understand your decision was made at the time
that the United States became inv^olved in the war, and you were
only concerned with how to implement it?
Mr. Pressman. J would say when the incident did occur that made
it clear to my mind the position I had to take to be true to my own
conviction.
Mr. Nixon. Do you know Nathan Gregory Silvermaster?
Mr. Pressman. I have met him socially.
Mr. Nixon. Where?
Mr. Pressman. In Washington. I believe our acquaintance de-
veloped when he was with the Resettlement Administration.
Mr. Nixon. Do you know whether he is a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I do not.
Mr. Nixon. You never discussed that with him?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. You never discussed his record with anybody else?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. You have read his record in the papers?
Mr. Pressman. Oh, yes.
Mr. Nixon. You do not know whether he was ever a member of
the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I have no knowledge of that.
Mr. Nixon. Do you know Louise Bransten?
Mr. Pressman. I believe I met her once socially in California, but
just once.
Mr. Nixon. Who else was present at that social gathering?
Mr. Pressman. I imagine about 75 other people. It was a cocktail
party given in her house in California.
Mr. Nixon. Was Paul Robeson there?
Mr. Pressman. No. That I know, because I would remember him
by his sheer height.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2873
Mr. Nixon. Was Silvermaster present?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. I will read j^ou a portion of the testimony of Mr.
Russell in 1948. Mr. Russell was putting in the record a civil service
report of 1944 in which the Civil Service Commission stated the facts
in its files regarding Nathan Gregory Silvermaster, and it states:
Mr. Silvermaster admitted his close association with the persons referred to in
the testimony of the various witnesses, among whom are well-known Communists.
He admitted that he is aware of the fact that Richard Bransten, alias Richard
Brandstein, alias Bruce Minton, is a member of the Communist Party and is at
present an editor of New Masses. He stated that Bransten is one of his closest
social friends at this time and that he and his wife were guests in the Bransten
home along with Paul Robeson and Lee Pressman 2 weeks before the hearing.
Mr. Pressman. That is Mr. Bransten's second wife. You asked
about Louise Bransten. That is his first wife. Mr. Bransten and
his second wife lived here in the city of Washington and they were
known Communists, at least Mr. Richard Bransten was.
Mr. Nixon. An open member, you mean?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct. At his house I also met Mr.
Silvermaster, and if he says I was there with Paul Robeson, I probably
was. I do not recall, but I make no issue of it. I know I have been
at Mr. Bransten's home when Mr. Silvermaster was there.
Mr. Nixon. Was Mr. Robeson there?
Mr. Pressman. I do not know.
Mr. Nixon. A moment ago you said you would remember him
because of his height.
Mr. Pressman. I was talking about the occasion in California.
Mr. Nixon. Are people taller in California than in Washington?
Mr. Pressman. They are. I recall I was in Louise Bransten's
home only once and he was not there.
Mr. Nixon. At the meeting in Richard Bransten's home in Wash-
ington, was Paul Robeson there?
Mr, Pressman. He may have been.
Mr. Nixon. Was Silvermaster there?
Mr. Pressman. Yes. I know we were all living in Washington and
frequently met at his home.
Mr, Nixon. You know he was not in California?
Mr. Pressman. I know he was not because a person was in Cali-
fornia who was living with him at that time. Let us not quibble over
mere details. You asked me whether I had ever met Louise Bransten.
I am trying to point out you do not know all the facts. Louise
Bransten was the first wife of Richard Bransten. She lived in
California. I was at her home I believe once, back in 1945. I know
when I was there Mr. Silvermaster was not there, because he was then
working in the city of Washington.
Mr. Wood. You rAade the statement that you knew Robeson was
not at Mrs. Bransten's home because you would remember him
because of his extreme height. Now you say you do not remember if
he was in Mr. Bransten's home here in Washington.
Mr. Pressman. I met often at Mr. Bransten's home in the city of
Washington. I know Silvermaster was frequently present. Whether
on a social occasion over a period of 2 years Mr. Robeson was there,
I won't say yes or no. If someone says he was, he probably was.
Mr. Case. What vears was it?
2874 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
]VIr. Pressman. I believe Mr. Bransten was in Washington from
1942 or 1943 to about 1944. That was after I came back to Washing-
ton with the CIO.
Mr. McSwEENEY. Were these four members married men, the
four members of your group in the Agriculture Department?
Mr. Pressman. I think they were all married.
Mr. McSwEENEY. And you held your meetings at the homes of
these different members?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct, generally speaking.
Mr. McSwEENEY. Did the women have any knowledge of the type
of meetings?
Mr. Pressman. No; just as men have poker parties and the women
go to the moving pictures, they went to moving pictures on those
occasions.
Mr. Nixon. Mr. Pressman, in your opening statement you said
that you as a lawyer particularly did not want to comment on a case
which is presently before the courts. You think as a general rule
that is a bad practice, as I understand it?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. It is bad practice in all instances, I assume?
Mr. Pressman. I would say so.
Mr. Nixon. Why did you comment on the trial of the 11 Commu-
nists in New York?
Mr. Pressman. I commented on the jury system, because that
issue went far beyond the trial of the 11 individuals. I commented
on the selection of jurors, because at that time I felt it was unfair to
members of the trade-union whom I was representing, because it was
stated publicly by Federal Judge Knox that people from the higher
income brackets would be in the only ones called.
Mr. Nixon. Do you recall the trial of the Trotskyites under the
Smith Act?
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. Nixon. Did you condemn the trial system at that time?
Mr. Pressman. I don't recall that I did.
Mr. Nixon. What statement did you issue in regard to the trial
of the Trotskyites?
Mr. Pressman. I didn't issue any statement.
Mr. Nixon. Wliat was your position on that?
Mr. Pressman. My position is that the Smith Act would be a viola-
tion of constitutional rights, whether in the trial of the Trotskyites
or anybody else. I have not read the record of the 1 1 Communists.
If the statute is interpreted to mean some mere speech, it would be
a violation of the constitutional rights of free speech.
Mr. Nixon. Where it proves a conspiracy, you would recognize
that as a basis for prosecution?
Mr. Pressman. Provided you had overt acts and so forth.
Mr. Case. And that is whether the speech advocates a change in
government by normal methods or by violent overthrow, if necessary?
Mr. Pressman. Since you are asking my legal opmion, I want to
be very precise. I have had many occasions, during my 10 years as
counsel for the CIO, to appear before the courts and argue on the con-
stitutionality of many statutes which interfered with what we con-
sidered to be our right of freedom of speech. Without going mto a
long discussion at the moment, which would be required to give my
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2875
complete position, I can say this, that the clear and present danger
test that has been laid down by the Supreme Court is the only guide-
post and only rule which I can follow as a lawyer, which is that when
you have acts which present a clear and present danger from a sub-
stantive evil which the State has a right to legislate on or prevent,
then you can interfere with that evil even though it stops expressions
of speech.
In regard to the 11 Communists, the circuit court of appeals has
said that their indictment and conviction fall within that rule. That
is before the Supreme Court, and they will decide it by some majority
decision, whether yes or no.
Mr. Wood. How do you know it will be a majority decision?
Mr. Pressman. By some majority decision.
Mr. Wood. You imply it will not be a unanimous decision.
Mr. Pressman. I mean it will be the decision of the court.
Mr. Case. Was it your opinion a year ago that a clear and present
danger existed, leading to the announcement you made?
Mr. Pressman. I would say my problems and my viewpoint did
not lead mto that field. My whole contact has been m the trade-
union movement, and it has not been in terms of force and violence.
Mr. Wood. The committee will stand in recess until 3 o'clock.
(Thereupon, at 1:25 p. m., a recess was taken until 3 p. m. of the
same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
(The hearing was resumed at 3 p. m., Representatives John S.
Wood (chairman), Francis E. Walter, Burr P. Harrison, John
McSvveeney, Richard M. Nixon, and Harold H. Velde being present.)
Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order.
TESTIMONY OF LEE PRESSMAN— Resumed
I believe Mr. Nixon was interrogating the witness at the time of
the recess. In the interest of economizing on the time, I am going
to ask the members, after Mr. Nixon is tlu'ough with the line of
questions he had, to withhold further questions of the witness until
counsel has finished his interrogation of the witness, at which time
each member will be given an opportunity to ask such questions as
he may desire.
Mr. Nixon. Mr. Pressman, we mentioned before lunch Nathan
Gregory Silvermaster, and as I recall you stated you had met him
socially in Washington on occasions; is that correct?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. Do you recall other occasions, other than the one we
referred to?
Mr. Pressman. I said I met Mr. Silvermaster many times socially
in the city of Washington, but I could not recall any specific occasion.
They were all in connection with social relations.
Air. Nixon. You had no occasion to have any business relations
with Mr. Silvermaster whatever?
Mr. Pressman. I believe the business dealings would date back to
the time when he was in the Resettlement Administration, is my
recollection. He was working with some farm labor problems when I
was there. My business relations would be confined to that.
2876 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Nixon. You had some business dealings witli him at that time?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct. Oh, I am sorry. To be completely-
accurate, I believe he was with the Maritime Labor Board when I was
with the CIO, and in that connection I may have had some business
dealings with him.
Mr. Nixon. I understand your testimony to be that the only three
people besides yourself who were members of the Communist Party in
the Government, to your knowledge, were Nathan Witt, John Abt, and
Charles Kramer. Is that correct?
Mr. Pressman. I said the three members of my group, in addition
to myself, were the tlu-ee persons who have been named who were in
the Department of Agriculture when I was there. I am not trying to
quibble.
Mr. Nixon. I prefer not to leave it in that unsettled state of affairs.
It seems to me it does appear to be quibbling. I understand you to
say the only three persons besides yourself who were members of the
Communist Party in the Government, to your knowledge, were John
Abt, Nathan Witt, and Charles Kramer?
Mr. Pressman. I will ask the chairman if that problem has been
disposed of in the morning session. If Mr. Nixon would care to
interrogate me on any other individual, I will be delighted to answer.
Mr. Nixon. Mr. Chairman, I don't care to question him on any
other matter until he has answered that question. He has issued a
statement denouncing the Communist Party, and I think there is a
moral issue here. It is a moral issue that is a very important one.
There are individuals who are involved, and individual feelings, and
I can appreciate your individual feelings, and I appreciate the fact
you have attempted to come in and present to the committee up to
this point information that will be of value, but there is a greater
moral issue involved, and that is the security of the country, and I
think under the circumstances you should ansewr the question as to
whether or not these three people were the only people who were
members of the Communist Party, to your knowledge, at the time
you were in the Government.
Mr. Pressman. Mr. Chairman, you may recall this morning I left
that question entirely in the hands of the committee.
Mr. Nixon. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a ruling on that point, and
I urge strongly it would be setting a bad precedent not to insist on a
direct answer from this witness. We cannot have a precedent estab-
lished to have a witness who has broken from the party, by his refusal
to answer
Mr. Pressman. Let the record be perfectly clear. In all fairness
to the witness I think it should be clear that I did not refuse to answer.
Mr. Wood. Please don't break in.
Mr. Pressman. I think the chairman should be fair to the witness.
Mr. Nixon. The record of Mr. Pressman's appearance is available,
and I think it will show on constitutional grounds Mr. Pressman
refused to answer the questions asked.
Mr. Pressman. You mean m 1948?
Mr. Nixon. He can quibble as to whether he refused or not, but the
fact is he did not answer questions he was asked.
Mr. Pressman. In 1948? I beg your pardon. I thought you
were asking about this morning.
COJVIMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2877
Mr. Nixon. That was 12 years after he had broken with the Com-
munist Party. I think since he has now stated there has been a com-
plete ideological break from the party, there should be a forthright
answer to the question. I think, Mr. Pressman, you are aware of the
fact there are a number of people in the country who are wondering
whether your break was a complete break. I want to give you the
benefit of the doubt. But I will say you are not going to be able to
convince a great majority of the people of the country that the break
has been complete unless you come clean and answer the questions
forthrightly, and place the security of the country above personal
issues.
Mr. Pressman. May I make a brief statement before you make
your ruling, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Wood. I am not malving a ruling. We cannot compel you to
answer. All we can do is ask questions.
Mr. Pressman. May I comment?
Mr. Wood. I think you should fhst determine whether you will
answer the question, Fu'st of aU I would hke to know what your
answer is.
Mr. Pressman. I would like to explain it.
Mr. Wood. Tell us what your answer is first, and then explain it.
That is a rule of evidence in courts of law. We are not trying to con-
duct this as a hearing in a court of law, but the rule is you answer first
and then explain.
Mr. Pressman. Mr. Nixon has prefaced his question with a state-
ment.
Mr. Wood. Let us ignore the preface and just answer the question.
Mr. Pressman. Unfortunately, I can't, because he stated it for the
record. My position is this, Mr. Chairman. I do not like, and I hope
Mr. Nixon did not really intend to convey what seemed to be implied
in "come clean." That is an offensive comment. I have issued my
statement and tried to make very clear my complete break.
Mr. Wood. We have heard all that, Mr. Pressman.
Mr. Pressman. I said this morning, Mr. Chairman, when I was
asked who were the other three members of the group with whom I was
identified, I said, Mr. Chairman, since that question was asked, I
believe, by counsel first, if the committee will direct me to answer
that question, than I have my problem.
Mr. Wood. The committee cannot direct you to do anything. All
we can do is ask you. One member of the committee has aslved you.
Mr. Pressman. And I am asking if I am directed to answer it.
Mr. Wood. The committee does not direct anybody.
Mr. Pressman. In the past you certainly have.
Mr. Wood. We ask, but we don't direct.
Mr. Pressman. There is a problem for both of us in this issue. Mr.
Nixon has expressed himself on the problem and I have expressed
myself. Are you directing that I answer the question?
Mr. Wood. You have been asked the question by a member of the
committee.
Mr. Pressman. Is it the direction of the chairman that I answer?
Mr. Wood. I don't direct anybody to answer.
Mr. Pressman. I say to Mr. Nixon for the reasons I indicated this
morning that I add nothing to the information available to the com-
mittee, so there is no issue of the security of my country. I stated the
2878 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
individuals were in the Department of Agriculture with me and were
named. I add nothing to the information already available to the
committee. It is offensive to me to name individuals with whom I
have in the past associated.
Mr. Wood. We could have saved an hour's time if you had answered
or announced you declined to answer, which is your prerogative.
Mr. Pressman. I am not declining. I am awaiting a direction from,
the committee.
Mr. Wood. One member of the committee has asked the question.
At no time has the committee ever directed anybody to answer a
question since I have been on the committee.
Mr. Pressman. Maybe I am wrong. This is a question for the
committee. I want to know whether I am directed to answer,
because I do not want to be in a position of declining to answer a
question. On this issue I am asking the committee, is the committee
directing me to answer that question?
(Hon. Burr P. Harrison entered hearing room.)
Mr. Wood. The committee does not direct you to answer anything.
Mr. Pressman. I refuse to decline to answer. I am not being
jocular.
Mr. Wood. Suppose you answer it, then.
Mr. Pressman. Is that a direction from the chairman?
Mr. Wood. It is a suggestion. A person can't decline and acquiesce
at the same time.
Mr. Pressman. I find myself in a very peculiar position, because it
has been my experience, in terms of understanding a committee's
work, that when an individual or a witness is asked a question and the
witness indicates there is a problem in connection with the question,
he is entitled to ask the committee if he is directed to answer the
question, and, please, I ask if I am directed.
Mr. Wood. It would be a strange anomaly if a member of the
committee asked a question and did not want an answer to it.
Mr. Pressman. I don't know what the reluctance of the committee
is to tell me yes or no whether it is directing me to answer.
Mr. Wood. There is no reluctance, Mr. Pressman. It is not in the
province of the committee to direct you to answer.
Mr. Pressman. I say I do not want to be in a position of declining
to answer a question.
Mr. Wood. Suppose you go ahead and answer it, if you do not
decline to answer it.
Mr. Harrison. What is the question, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Wood. Read the question.
(The pending question was read by the reporter.)
Mr. Pressman. If this will satisfy Mr. Nixon, the only three people
I have knowledge of as members of the Communist Party were the
three members with me in the group, who were with mo in the Depart-
ment of Agriculture at the time. The three who have been named
along with me in that group were the only three in the Department of
Agriculture with me at the same time I was.
Mr. Nixon. Those are the three you mean?
Mr. Pressman. We are getting back to the same problem, Mr.
Nixon.
Mr. Nixon. You don't want to name the three people?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2879
Mr. Pressman. I don't believe that either you or I at this moment
are serving any useful purpose. Let us proceed. If there is other
information about which I have any knowledge that I can furnish
that might be helpful, let us proceed.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Pressman, please don't lecture the committee,
Wliat is your attitude about answering this question?
Mr. Nixon. It is extremely important to this inquiry to know
whether the three persons I have named are the three persons you
referred to.
Mr. Harrison. He said that this morning.
Mr. Nixon. No.
Mr. Pressman. Wliatever I said this morning is in the record.
Mr. Nixon. I ask you again if you will repeat what you said this
morning?
Mr. Pressman. If I could see the record I would tell you.
Mr. Nixon. Did you say this morning that John Abt, Nathan Witt,
and Charles Kramer were the only ones in the Department of Agricul-
tm-e at the time you were who were members of the Communist Party
at the time you were?
Mr. Pressman. I will put it this way: Do I understand that you
are insisting, in spite of the point I made this morning, that I answer
that question?
Mr. Nixon. I am insisting.
Mr. Pressman. The answer is "Yes."
Mr. Nixon. That is fine.
In regard to Henry Collins, I understood you to say this morning
he was not a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. To my knowledge. I have no knowledge either
way.
Mr. Nixon. Have you ever been in his home with the three other
individuals you named?
Mr. Pressman. I have been in his home.
Mr. Nixon. The occasions you were in his home were not meetings
of the Communist Party itself?
Mr. Pressman. I will be very precise. I said this morning that our
meetings were held in our respective homes and other places from
time to time.
Mr. Nixon. Were any of the meetings held at the home of Henry
Collins?
Mr. Pressman. I do not recall. I cannot say yes or no. I have
searched my memory in the face of the testimony of other witnesses,
and I cannot state as a fact whether they were or not.
Mr. Nixon. If Henry Colhns was not a member of the Communist
Party, would he have been at a meeting of this group, and would the
meeting have been at his home?
Mr. Pressman. Let us divide your question. It is quite possible a
meeting might have been held at the home of someone not a member
of the group, but I know Henry Collins was not present at a meeting
during my participation in that group. Do I make myself clear, or
shall I repeat?
Mr. Nixon. You need not. I will read the record.
Mr. Pressman. I wanted to make it clear.
Mr. Nixon. I think it is clear. You are saying a meeting of the
group might have been held at the home of Henry Collins?
2880 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Pressman. I do not know. I do know we met at homes of
individuals who were not members of the group and members of the
Communist Party.
Mr. Nixon. How would you hold those meetings?
Mr. Pressman. As a friend of any member of the group, the home
would be made available.
Mr. Nixon. And that person was not present?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. Therefore, you are leaving the possibility that a meet-
ing might have been held at the home of Henry Collins?
M.r. Pressman. Could have been. I just don't remember.
Mr. Nixon. You don't recall that you ever attended such a meet-
ing at the home of Henry Collins?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct. I don't remember.
M.r. Nixon. You know Victor Perlo?
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. Nixon. Was he a member of the Commimist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I do not laiow. I do know he was not a member
of my group during the time I participated in it.
Mr. Nixon. And you know nothing about his activities since that
time?
Mr. Pressman. I have no facts on which to base any knowledge.
Mr. Nixon. You testified this morning that you didn't know
whether or not your law partner was a member of the party. Victor
Perlo was not in as close a contact with you as that, was he?
Mr. Pressman. I don't get your question.
Mr. Nixon. I imderstand you to testify this morning that you
didn't know whether your law partner had left the party or not.
Mr. Pressman. That is different. That is correct. You just
chaiDiged the question.
Mr. Nixon. As far as Perlo is concerned, you have no knowledge
eitbcr way?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. What about Donald Hiss?
Mr. Pressman. He was not a member of my group. I have abso-
lutely no information as to his political affiliation.
Mr. Nixon. George Silverman?
Mr. Pressman. I have no information regarding his political
affiliation. He was not a member of my group.
Mr. Nixon. Did you know him?
Mr. Pressman. I met him socially.
Mr. Nixon. At the home of Mr. Silvermaster?
Mr. Pressman. It might well have been. He was friendly with
Mr. Silvermaster.
Mr. Nixon. As were you?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. You have no information as to George Silverman's
connection with the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. Not to my recollection.
Mr. Nixon. I believe you testified this morning you were ac-
quainted with Harry Bridges in connection with your capacity as
attorney for the CIO?
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. Nixon. And that you knew him socially?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2881
Mr. Pressman. I imagine I did.
Mr. Nixon. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting at
his home?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. The testimony given by his wife to that effect is
incorrect?
Mr. Pressman. Absolutely. As I recall, she called me "Dr.
Pressman," and I have neither a Ph. D. nor an M. D. degree; and I
was in Washington.
Mr. Nixon. Is Mr. Bridges a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I have absolutely no knowledge in that respect.
Mr. Nixon. You don't know?
Mr. Pressman. Absoutlely not.
Mr. Nixon. Mr. Witt was secretary of the National Labor Rela-
tions Board, was he not?
Mr. Pressman. I believe so.
Mr. Nixon. At the time you were general counsel of the CIO?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. Did it ever occur to you, in dealing with Mr. Witt,
that if he was still a member of the Communist Party he would be
holding his office, in effect, illegally?
Mr. Pressman. Wliat was that?
Mr. Nixon. That he would be holding his office illegally? Is that
correct?
Mr. Pressman. I don't know whether it would be correct or not at
that time, as to what the requirements were for Federal employment.
Mr. Nixon. There was the requirement that no employee of the
Government could belong to an organization that advocated the
overthrow of the Government by force and violence.
Mr. Pressman. I don't know if that statute was in effect at that
time.
Mr. Nixon. You made no effort to determine whether he was a
member of the Communist Party at the time he was with he National
Labor Relations Board?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Air. Nixon. You had no reason to believe he had left the party?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. I think this morning you testified concerning some
portion of the testimony of Whittaker Chambers. Do you know
Whittaker Chambers?
Mr. Pressman. I am very glad you asked that question, Mr. Nixon,
because I would like to answer that very much. I have absolutely
no recollection — and I have searched my memory to the best of my
ability — ^of having met Whittaker Chambers in Washington in connec-
tion with my participation with the group. I have searched the record
to find out whether or not Mr. Whittaker Chambers states anywhere
that he met me in connection with that group, and I have not found
any such reference. I did find a reference in the record that Mr.
Whittaker Chambers — a man of apparently profound knowledge who
could remember in detail occurrences of many years ago — put me in
Washington in the Federal Government in 1936 when I was, as a
matter of record in New York City. I do have a recollection of one
instance which involves a meeting with Whittaker Chambers, and it
is this: If I speak heatedly, Mr. Nixon, it is not in connection with
responding to your question.
2882 COJMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Nixon. Mr. Pressman, you need not apologize. Just go ahead.
Mr. Pressman. Sometime in 1936 two gentlemen appeared in my
private law office in New York City. One of them I have recognized
since, by virtue of pictures that have appeared in the public print, as
Wliittaker Chambers. He did not appear at that time by that name
and, for the life of mo, I have been trying to find out what was the
name he appeared by, and I can't remember, nor can I find any record.
He came in with another individual. Wliittaker Chambers, by
whatever name he appeared at that time, stated that he knew of me
through mutual friends, without identifying them, and was bringing
to me this second person as a potential client.
Mr. Nixon. You had no difficulty recognizing Mr. Chambers from
his picture?
Mr. Pressman. He looked quite different from when I saw him,
but I recognized him.
Mr. Nixon. You did not have to see his teeth?
Mr. Pressman. Is that necessary, Mr. Nixon, with me as a witness?
Mr. Nixon. Go ahead.
Mr. Pressman. The second individual, this person who wanted to
be my client, showed me credentials that he was a representative of
the Spanish Republican Government — this was in 1936 — who wanted
to go to Mexico to purchase materials for the Spanish Republican
Government. The request was whether I would accompany such in-
dividual, as an attorney, to Mexico in that endeavor. I said I would
go as an attorney with him to Mexico to see what could be done. I
went, not with \Vliittaker Chambers but with this other individual,
to Mexico as his attorney. Our expedition, by the way, was unsuc-
cessful, and we returned. I have not seen Wliittaker Chambers since
the day that he appeared in my office at that time.
Mr. Nixon. How long was he in your office?
Mr. Pressman. Maybe a half hour or an hour.
Mr. Nixon. That is the only time in your life you ever saw him?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. You had no difficulty recognizing him from his picture?
Mr. Pressman. I recognized him from the pictm-es. Whether I
had difficulty, I don't loiow.
Mr. Nixon. You are sure it is the same man?
Mr. Pressman. As sure as I can be in these days.
Mr. Nixon. Who was the other individual?
Mr. Pressman. Mr. Eckliart.
Mr. Nixon. What is his first name?
Mr. Pressman. I believe his initial was J.
Mr. Nixon. Have you seen him since?
Mr. Pressman. No; or maybe one time.
Mr. Nixon. Have you heard from him since?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. What did you call Mr. Chambers?
Mr. Pressman. Wlien he was in my office? I can't remember
what name he gave when he came. The reason I recall Mr. Eckhart,
he appears in my records as a client.
Mr. Nixon. At the time Mr. Wliittaker Chambers came in your
office with Mr. Eckhart, you made a notation of liim as a client?
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. Nixon. Yom* secretary made no notation of who appeared
with Mr. Eckhart?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2883
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. What was your fee?
Mr. Pressman. Is that necessary?
Mr. Harrison. You were paid a fee?
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. Nixon. I thought it might serve to refresh your recollection.
Mr. Pressman. Refresh your recollection? It was a reasonable
fee.
Mr. Nixon. Who paid the fee?
Mr. Pressman. Mr. Eckhart.
Mr. Nixon. When did you learn Mr. Whittaker Chambers was the
man who brought him to your office?
Mr. Pressman. When his picture started appearing in the public
press.
Mr. Nixon. Did you take that information to public authorities?
Mr. Pressman. Which one?
Mr. Nixon. Any one.
Mr. Pressman. Somebod,y appeared from the FBI in 1948.
Mr. Nixon. What did you tell them?
Mr. Pressman. The same answer I gave this committee at that
time.
Mr. Nixon. Refused to answer the question?
Mr. Pressman. That is .correct.
Mr. Nixon. Has the FBI questioned you since August 10 of this
year?
Air. Pressman. Mr. Nixon, I said this morning that the answer
was no. I am of the opinion, if I may say
Mr. Nixon. Let me ask 3^011 another question, and then you may
express your opinion.
Mr. Pressman. Surely.
Mr. Nixon. Has anybody attempted to determine whether you
would give information to the FBI before you appeared before this
committee?
Mr. Pressman. I have had a lot of inquiries from newspaper
reporters.
Mr. Nixon. Only newspaper reporters?
Mr. Pressman. To date.
Mr. Nixon. No official or unofficial inquiry from the FBI?
Mr. Pressman. I do think that is an avenue or arena which could
best be left with the FBI.
Mr. Nixon. I am asking you.
Mr. Pressman. That is my answer.
Mr. Nixon. In other words, you don't want to answer the question?
Air. Pressman. My position has been that after issuing my state-
ment I was not going to say anything to anybody until I liad appearei
before this committee, since you had subpenaed me.
Mr. Nixon. Your position has been you would not appear before
the FBI until you had appeared before this committee?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct. This was my appearance that was
called for by the subpena.
Mr. Nixon. As I understand 3^our testimony, this was a complete
ideological and organizational break that you made on August 10, but
as far as information is concerned, you are limiting the giving of
information to the extent that this committee questions you about?
2884 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Air. Pressman. That is not what I said. I said after I issued my
piibUc statement I read in the pubUc press that a member of this
committee had announced that I was going to be subpenaed, and
following that announcement I made up my mind I would make no
public statement to anybody until after I had appeared before this
committee.
Mr. Nixon. Do you recall discussing with Mr. Chambers, the man
who came into your office, on this occasion or previous to that time,
your contemplated plans to go with the CIO?
Mr. Pressman. Absolutely not.
Mr. Nixon. Do you recall an occasion whem Mr. Chambers visited
you in your apartment across from the Zoo on Connecticut Avenue?
Mr. Pressman. He was never in my apartment in the city of Wash-
ington, and he couldn't tell the color of my furniture, either.
Mr. NixoN. It is very possible that he might not, because Mr.
Chambers might have been there in the summertime.
Mr. Pressman. At that time I only had one set of furniture,
summer or winter.
Mr. Nixon. And the fm-niture is usually covered when you go
away in the summer?
Mr, Pressman. Not on the salary I was making at that time.
1 have absolutely no recollection of ever having met this man known
as Chambers up until the day he walked in my office in New York City.
Mr. Nixon. On this occasion I speak of, which was in the summer,
your wife and family were out of the city.
Mr. Pressman. What year was this?
Mr. Nixon. In the year that you took yom- position with the CIO.
Mr. Pressman. In Washington or New York?
Mr. Nixon. I am talking about Washington.
Mr. Pressman. That shows how Whittaker Chambers is incorrect
if he made that statement. I was not in Washington at that time.
Mr. Nixon. I recognize that. I said at a time when you were
considering leaving the Government service, prior to your taking
your position with the CIO.
Mr. Pressman. I am glad you put the question that way, because
here are the facts: This indicates how, if Whittaker Chambers made
any such assertion, he is lying, because when I left Washington to go
back into private practice, the CIO was not even organized. It was
not until the convention of the AFL in 1935, when the AFL kicked
out those six or seven unions and Mr. Lewis happened to punch Mr.
Hutchinson in the nose, thereafter Mr. Lewis and six other men met
and formed the CIO; and it wasn't until months later that Mr. Lewis
asked me if I would go to Pittsburgh to be counsel for the Steel
Workers Organizing Committee.
Mr. Nixon. And fyou deny any meeting with ^^Tiittaker Chambers
in your home in 1935?
Mr. Pressman. Absolutely.
Mr. Nixon. You deny meeting Whittaker Chambers during the
period you were living in Washington, D. C?
Mr. Pressman. I have absolutely no recollection, and I have can-
vassed my recollection to the best of my ability.
Air. Nixon. You never met him m the company of J. Peters?
Air. Pressman. That is correct.
Air. Nixon. You never met him in the home of Henry Collins?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2885
Mr. Pressman. That is correct. Wliile I was in that group, Mr.
Chambers did not appear before that group.
Mr. Nixon. Going back to this incident in your office, can you give
us the date of tliat incident?
Air. Pressman. Sometime the middle of 1936.
Mr. Nixon. Do you have a notation to that effect in your file?
Mr. Pressman. No. I do not have the files.
Mr. Nixon. Wliere are the files?
Mr. Pressman. The partnership I was with was dissolved years
ago.
Mr. Nixon. And you have no files at all?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct. The reason I can place it in 1936,
I laiow when I returned from my trip to Mexico coincided with an
incident in Wheeling, Ohio, when two men were shot, and I believe
killed, by some strikebreakers — Did I say Wheeling, Ohio? I mean
Portsmouth, Ohio. I had to go to Portsmouth, and I date it from
that time. It was sometime in 1936.
Mr. Nixon. The early part?
Mr. Pressman. No. It was after June. It was between June and
the fall.
Mr. Nixon. The Spanish civil war didn't break out until the sum-
mer of 1936, so that would date it, wouldn't it?
Mr. Pressman. Is that when it started? I say between June and
the fall of 1936.
Mr. Nixon. And the purpose of this trip was to obtain arms for the
Spanish Republican Government?
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. Nixon. What else did Whittaker Chambers say?
Mr. Pressman. Nothing other than the introduction.
Mr. Nixon. He introduced himself to you?
Mr. Pressman. Only as knowing me through mutual friends; that
mutual friends said I was practicing law in New York. And at that
time, having only been in business a few months, I wasn't making too
many inquiries. I wanted a client if it was a good client.
Mr. Nixon. Do you know Dr. Philip Rosenbleitt?
Mr. Pressman. Absolutely not. I do not know the name or know
the man. I saw the name in the press. Pegler mentioned him.
Mr. Nixon. Have you heard of his returning to the United States?
Mr. Pressman. No. Notknowinghimin the first place, I wouldn't
know anythmg about his return.
Mr. Nixon. I thought you said you had read about it in the press.
Mr. Pressman. I have read in a Pegler story something about
Chambers saying I had something to do with some dentist.
Mr. Nixon. Do you know Colonel Ivan Lamb?
Mr. Pressman. Absolutely not.
Mr. Nixon. You never heard of him?
Mr. Pressman. What is his last name, again?
Mr. Nixon. Lamb, as mutton.
Mr. Pressman. I don't know him.
Mr. Nixon. You didn't meet him in New York City in 1936?
Mr. Pressman. I never met the man.
Mr. Nixon. You never met him in company with Whittaker
Chambers?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
2886 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. NixoN. Have you ever used the name "Cole Phillips"?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. You never used it?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. Wlien you were in the party did you use any name
other than your o\vn?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. Did any other member of your group?
Mr. Pressman. I don't believe so. We used our own names during
the period I was there.
Mr. Nixon. Have you ever gotten a Government position for
Charles Kramer, or assisted in getting him a Government position?
Mr. Pressman. My understanding is he was a friend of Nathan
Witt. I don't recall getting him a position.
Mr. Nixon. After that time did you ever recommend him for a
position?
Mr. Pressman. Not that I recall. I never had occasion to
recommend people for jobs in the Federal Government. I can't
deny if, over the past 15 years, somebody called me about an indivi-
dual, I might have said something, but I have no recollection of
helping him or anybody else get a job in the Federal Government.
Mr. Nixon. When you went to Mexico, did you go by plane?
Mr. Pressman. That is right. My name is on the roster of the
airline company, and so is Mr. Eckhart's. There is nothing secret
about that.
I would like to comment on that, because several years later — and
this is indicative of the kind of misstatements of fact that have been
made about me — years later some columnist prints a story that my
trip to Mexico was connected with some oil deal down in Mexico.
That columnist got that story from an individual around Washington
whose name I do not care to mention at this time who is a drunken
paranoiac who has on his mind Lee Pressman. That columnist did
not inquire of me a,bout the facts. After the column appeared, I
called the columnist and asked, "For God's sake, how can you say I
was connected with an oil deal?" I gave him the facts. "Oh," he
said, "you were down there laying the groundwork for an affair 2
or 3 years later." Go ahead and meet that kind of individual.
Mr. Nixon. That individual is not Wliittaker Chambers?
Mr. Pressman. No; but I wonder if that columnist is here now.
I was hoping he was.
Mr. Nixon. You don't mean the columnist?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. You don't know any columnist who is a drunken
paranoiac?
Mr. Pressman. Arc you asking that as a question?
Mr. Nixon. That is all at this time.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Pressman, in connection with my questioning
of you in the earlier part of your testimony, in response to a question
that 1 asked you, 3^ou stated that your break with the Communist
Party in 1935 was not a complete break, and that the complete break
came upon the announcement that you made here a few weeks ago,
a public announcement. Then you stated, in response to a further
inquiry, that in that interim, between 1935 and the time your break
with the party became complete, you had had occasion to confer with
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2887
leaders of the Communist Party, and we were talking about that at the
time other questions were asked about other matters. I would like
for you to go back to that. Who were those leaders in the Communist
Party with whom you conferred between 1935 and the time you made
the complete break?
Mr. Pressman. Roy Hudson, who I believe was national labor
secretary of the Communist Party; Gene Dennis, then legislative
representative of the Communist Party. To the best of my recollec-
tion, those are the two individuals that stand out in my memory.
Mr. Tavenner. There were others; were there not?
Mr. Pressman. Possibh'. Those are the ones I met from time to
time.
Mr. Tavenner. And the purpose of those meetings was to discuss
matters in which the Communist Party was interested?
Mr. Pressman. Matters in which they were interested; that is
correct.
Mr. Tavenner. And you knew them to be members of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you think you could recall the names of any
others with whom you conferred in like manner?
Mr. Pressman. I just said that I didn't recall offhand.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Harold Cammer?
Mr. Pressman. He was my law partner from February 1948 until
November 1949.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the control board, now called
the review board, of the disciplinary section of the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I haven't the slightest idea. My association with
him was confined entirely to the practice of the law.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Simon Gerson?
Mf . Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend the 1948 convention of the Pro-
gressive Party?
Mr. Pressman. I did.
Mr. Tavenner. And at that convention did you confer with Simon
Gerson relating to Communist Party matters?
Mr. Pressman. I believe he attended as a newspaperman and I
saw him in the city of Philadelphia at the time.
Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't he what is commonly referred to in the
Communist Party as a "rep" or representative of the Communist
Party at that time?
Mr. Pressman. As I understood, he was there as an accredited
newspaperman, and I saw him there once or twice.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you confer with him?
Mr. Pressman. Not in respect to the resolutions or activities I was
engaged in at that convention.
Mr. Tavenner. But you conferred with him?
Mr. Pressman. I met him.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you confer svith him?
]\Ir. Pressman. I don't want to quibble. I saw him and met him,
and the chances are he talked to me about things going on.
Mr. Tavenner. Going on in the Communist Party?
Air. Pressman. No; in the Progressive Party.
67052 — 50— i>t. 2 1
2888 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Tavenner. And what the Communist Party wanted in con-
nection with the platform of the Progressive Party?
Air. Pressman. I imagine in passing he probably so stated.
Mr. Tavenner. You have drawn a distinction between being an
organizational member of the Communist Party and an ideological
member.
Mr. Pressman. I drew no such distinction. You are doing it.
Mr. Tavenner. You drew it when you said you were no longer an
organizational member after 1935.
Air. Pressman. I believe the record show^s after 19.35 I was never
a member of the Communist Party. I stated since that time I have
met with members of the Communist Party.
Air. Tavenner. We are anxious to know what your relationship
was with the Communist Party after 1935 and prior to your complete
break.
Air. Pressman. I met with the leaders of the Communist Party and
dealt with them. I would discuss theii" problems. However, at no
time did I ever accept directions or instructions from these representa-
tives of the Communist Party, because I felt at that time, even while
I was having relations with the Communist Party, that my direct and
immediate and sole allegiance was to the CIO and the officials and
elected officers and members of the CIO.
Air. Tavenner. During this same period of time, did you have
any official connection of any kind with the Communist Party,
though you may not have been an actual member of it?
Mr. Pressman. No; no official connection whatsoever.
Mr. Tavenner. During this period of time from 1935 until your
complete break with the party, were you a member of various front
organizations of the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. If you would indicate to me what organizations
you mean, I might be able to state. I think it would be easier to
answer it that way.
Air. Tavenner. I will ask you about a few, and then will ask if
you were a member of any others; so, if you will keep that in mind,
please.
Were you a member of the board of directors of the Committee for
a, Democratic Far Eastern Policy?
Air. Pressman. I think I was, and I resigned a few months ago.
Mr. Tavenner. You were a member of that organization from
approximately what date?
Mr. Pressman. I don't recall.
Mr. Tavenner. It was cited as a Communist-front organization by
Attorney General Tom Clark on April 25, 1949. Will you tell us the
extent to which the Communist Party controlled that organization?
Air. Pressman. I haven't the slightest idea. I don't think I at-
tended a single meeting of that organization.
Air. Tavenner. Were you associated with the International Jurid-
ical Association?
Air. Pressman. Yes; I was, back in 1932 or 1931, 1 believe. It was
a journal that was reporting or making analyses of decisions affectmg
labor or civil rights, and I participated in that work.
Air. Tavenner. And you were a member of the national committee
of that organization as late as ^pril 1942; were you not?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2889
Mr. Pressman. 1 lost track of it when I left New York City in 1932.
Mr. Tavenner. It was cited as a Communist-front organization by
the Special Committee on Un-American Activities on March 29, 1944.
Mr. Pressman. I must confess, Mr. Counsel, that would not ter-
ribly impress me.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Carol Weiss King, its secretary?
Mr. Pressman. I know her as a lawyer in New \ ork.
Mr. Tavenner. And do you know her as a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I do not. I have no knowledge whatsoever regard-
ing her political affiliations.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat other activities did you engage in, in
connection with the Communist Party, from 1935, when your break
with it began?
Mr. Pressman. Air. Counsel, this may amaze you, and I am now
addressing myself to the pomt made by Mr. Nixon, which disturbs me
greatly
Mr. Wood. Mr. Pressman, please answer the question.
Mr. Pressman. I am answermg it.
Mr. Wood. You are going outside the scope of the question. For
example, your statement that the actions of this committee did not
impress you; I might say you do not particularly impress this com-
mittee, either.
Mr. Pressman. That was not this committee. This committee
was organized January 1949. That committee he was talking
about
Mr. Wood. You mean the present membership of this committee.
Mr. Pressman. No. It was a special committee.
Mr. Wood. This committee was made a permanent organization of
Congress m 1945.
Mr. Pressman. Correct.
Mr. Wood. I simply called it to your attention to show you are
going outside the scope of the question.
Mr. NixoN. I know from what you have said that it is your desire
to present to the committee your porition and to make it clear?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. NixoN. I know you would not want any implication of quib-
bling?
Mr. Pressman. Absolutely.
Mr. Nixon. I think the last distinction made is typical of so many
things you have done today, your distinction between the Special
Committee on Un-American Activities and this committee because it
was in one Congress rather than another.
Mr. Pressman. That was not my point. My point is that that
committee at that time listed organizations which had not the slightest
connection with the Communist Party, which is well known.
Counsel asked me what other activities I had in connection with
the Communist Party, other than I have already mentioned between
1935 to date. My activities were: (1) I was either a member or on
the board of directors of some of these organizations that have been
put on the Attorney General's list, from all of which I have resigned;
(2) I met with and dealt with leaders of the Communist Party. I
had no other connection or relationship with the Communist Party
than those two points.
2890 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Nixon. Are you going to develop that point?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
It is a fact^ — -is it not? — -that the matter of education of recruits in
the Communist Party was a very important function of the Com-
munist Party cells or branches? That is a fact; is it not?
Mr. Pressman. I guess so; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. And in order to find a tool that would accomplish
their purpose, they established Communist Party schools, of which
the Abraham Lincoln School for Democracy was one and the School
for Democracy was another. Didn't you take an active part in some
of that school work?
Mr. Pressman. Absolutely not. I had absolutely nothing to do
with it. One such school up in New York City, for one year, had
listed me as giving a course there, and that was done without my
consent. I never attended, never delivered any lecture or conducted
any course, and had nothing to do with any of those schools through-
out that period.
Mr. Tavenner. You never gave any lectures?
Mr. Pressman. Absolutely not.
A^Ir. Tavenner. Though you say vou were listed?
Mr. Pressman. I was listed once as a proposed lecturer. That was
without my consent. I called their attention to it.
Mr. Tavenner. With whom did you get in touch in that con-
nection?
Mr. Pressman. I believe I addressed myself to the director. I
don't believe I knew the name of the director.
Mr. Tavenner. You were also a member of the Citizens United to
Abolish the Wood-Rankin Committee?
Mr. Pressman. I don't recall, but I might well have been.
Mr. Tavenner. You were a member of the Legislative Conference
of the Civil Rights Congress held in 1949; were you not?
Mr. Pressman. I wouldn't deny or affirm it. I don't remember.
If you state it is a matter of record, then it is clear.
Mr. Tavenner. You were associated with the Washington Com-
mittee for Democratic Action, which has been cited as a Communist
front; were you not?
Mr. Pressman. I may have been. I don't recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean you were associated with so many
of these cited organizations that you don't remember the names
of them?
Mr. Pressman. I wouldn't say so many, but I may have been and
don't deny it.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you join the Washington Book Shop while
you were in Washington?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct. I was a member of the Washington
Book Shop.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you one of the sponsors of the Win-the-
Peace Conference in Washington, D. C, in April 1946?
Mr. Pressman. I don't believe so. I believe I attended a meeting
at which I introduced as a speaker Senator Claude Pepper. That is
my recollection. I don't recall that I was a member.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2891
Mr. Tavenner. Wliile we are looking that up, I refer again to the
School for Democracy, a catalog of which I have before me for 1942,
in which appears this statement:
Pressman, Lee. Guest lecturer, labor problems and the law. 50. [Which
meant points of credit for the course.] General Counsel for the CIO.
Is that the matter which you say was unauthorized?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. On the letterhead of Win-the-Peace Conference,
over the signature of Robert T. Leichester, executive secretary, dated
February 28, 1946, there appears a list of sponsors, including your
name.
Mr. Pressman. If my name is included, then I was a sponsor.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Film Audiences for
Democracy, which has been cited?
Mr. Pressman. Gosh, I don't remember. I don't know what that
organization did.
Mr. Tavenner. There appear in a pamphlet entitled "Film
Survey," June 1939, on the back page thereof, the names of the execu-
tive committee and the names of those who are members of the
advisory board. Under the names of those who were members of
the advisory board appears the name of Lee Pressman. Do you
admit that you were on that advisory board?
Mr. Pressman. If my name is there, I probably was.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Lawyers Committee
on American Relations with Spain?
Mr. Pressman. I think I was.
Mr. Tavenner. Which has also been cited as a Communist front.
Mr. Pressman. Was that organization cited? By whom?
Mr. Tavenner. By the Special Committee on Un-American
Activities, in its report of March 29, 1949.
Were you associated with the National Federation for Constitutional
Liberties?
Mr. Pressman. I think I was. I might add I was a member of
the executive board of the Civil Rights Congress, from which I
resigned about a year ago.
Mr. Tavenner. The National Federation for Constitutional Liber-
ties was cited by Attorney General Tom Clark December 4, 1947, and
again September 21, 1948.
Did you state that you were a member of the Civil Rights Congress
and that you resigned?
Mr. Pressman. That is right. I resigned, I believe, in November
of last year.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Coordinating Commit-
tee to Lift the Embargo?
Mr. Pressman. I don't remember, Mr. Counsel, really I don't.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of any of those organizations at
this time?
Mr. Pressman. The answer is absolutely no.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you sever your connections or associa-
tions with those organizations?
Mr. Pressman. Most of those you have enumerated went out of
existence years ago. The only ones I recall which were in existence
2892 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
recently were the Civil Rights Congress, from which I resigned about
a year ago, and the Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy,
from which I resigned years ago.
Mr. Tavenner. Reference has been made to your appearance
before this committee in 1948, and also the appearance of John Abt
and Nathan Witt on the same day you appeared, and the refusal of all
of you to answer questions relating to your knowledge of Communist
activities at that time.
During the course of this investigation which the committee has
been conducting the past several years, it has come to its attention on
a number of occasions that witnesses who were subpenaed here to tes-
tify regarding such matters had been directed and informed by the
leadership of the Communist Party to refuse to answer questions and
to claim the benefit of the fifth amendment to the Constitution.
Do you know of any such instructions?
Mr. Pressman. I have absolutely no information about that.
Mr. Tavenner. There have been witnesses, for instance Mr.
Cvetic, who testified here, testified that that instruction came down
through party channels.
Mr. Pressman. I have absolutely no information on that.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliy did you refuse to answer questions when you
appeared before this committee in 1948?
Mr. Pressman. For reasons I thought best at that time, which I
explained this moining.
Mr. Tavenner. What were those reasons?
Mr. Pressman. It would take some time to repeat what I said this
morning. Do you desire them repeated, Mr. Nixon?
Mr. Nixon. Yes. I think it would be well to differentiate between
your refusal to testify before this committee and your refusal to give
information to the FBI. You said the reason you refused to give
information to the committee was because you didn't like the com-
mittee.
Mr. Pressman. You misunderstood me. In 1948 my severance
was not accomplished, and because of my viewpoint at that time I
refused to answer the questions propounded. Today my viewpoint is
absolutely different, and that is why I issued my public statement,
and that is why I am before this committee answering, to the best of
my ability, the questions propounded to me.
Mr. Nixon. You mean by that, your complete severance, ideo-
logically speaking, did not occur until sometime between the 26th
of June and the 10th of August?
Mr. Pressman. 26th of June? No. I told you I have been mull-
ing over this for over a year.
Mr. Nixon. I said complete severance.
Mr. Pressman. Don't put me in a position of appearing to quibble.
It is a kind of issue in which you don't say as of 6 p. m. I made a de-
cision. I have been discussing this problem with close friends over a
period of weeks. It is not an easy decision to make. And when I
issued my public statement that was a clear-cut public pronouncement
with regard to my position.
Mr. Nixon. In other words, in 1948 you had not severed your con-"
nections, ideologicaUy speaking, with the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2893
Mr. Tavenner. And therefore your action up to that time was
governed by yoiu- Communist Party views and beliefs that existed
then?
Mr. Pressman. I would say affected rather than governed.
Mr. Tavenner. And you are telling this committee now that you
have broken your association with all Communist-front organizations?
Mr. Pressman. From the depths of my deep convictions I hope I
can convey that thought to the members of this committee and,
through this committee and the public press, to the public at large.
Mr. Tavenner. And you would not Ivnowmgly reunite with organi-
zations of that character?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. And you have the same viewpoint regarding the
Communist Party itself?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. I want to inquire a little bit further about yom*
activities until the time yom- break with the party became complete.
Prior to your complete break with the party in the last few weeks,
has there ever been a time when you have criticized the Russian Gov-
ernment or its policies, up until that time?
Mr. Pressman. You mean public statements?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Whenever you made a public statement in
relation to Russia, it was in sympathy with the Soviet Union?
Mr. Pressman. It probably wg-s.
Mr. Tavenner. Has there been a time within the last few years
when, in spealdng of the foreign policy of the United States, you have
agreed with it?
Mr. Pressman. Oh, yes. I stated on occasion this morning when
I agreed.
Mr. Tavenner. When was that?
Mr. Pressman. The lend-lease program in 1941.
Mr. Tavenner. That was after the Communist Party line had
changed ?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Harrison. Didn't you say you went along with it but didn't
agree with it? .
Mr. Pressman. No. That was in connection with the resolution
condemning communism. I said in connection with lend-lease I
was in wholehearted agreement.
Mr. Tavenner. With that one exception, did you ever publicly
agree with the foreign policy of the United States before that time?
Mr. Pressman. My God, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. When was it?
Mr. Pressman. I can't recall at the moment. Look tlu-ough my
public records.
Mr. Tavenner. I am speaking now, in matters in which the Soviet
Union was involved. Didn't you always take a position favorable to
the Soviet Union up to this time?
Mr. Pressman. When you put the issue in such extreme terms
Mr. Tavenner. If that is too extreme, answer the question in your
own way.
Mr. Pressman. I think it is. Wlien this Korean issue arose, it
arose in a manner which, combined with the other problems that had
2894 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
been developing in my mind in connection with my relationship with
the Communist Party and its viewpoint, made it clear to me that on
that issue I felt that the Soviet Union, after the United Nations had
acted, was obligated to take measures, which apparently it did not, to
bring about a cessation of hostilities in Korea.
Mr. Tavenner. Where did the conflict come within the Commu-
nist Party on that position? Who disagreed with that position?
Mr. Pressman. They issued public statements.
Mr. Tavenner. But you took it up with someone and disagreed?
Mr. Pressman. T did not. I did not discuss it with members of
the Communist Party. I have had my problems developing for over
a year now, and this particular issue, the Korean issue, brought the
issue to a head for me. It made clear to me that I had to make the
decision which I made? I am far more interested in what my view-
point will be from here on out than I am in the opinions I have ex-
pressed in the past, and I hope it is of greater interest to the committee
and the public what my viewpoint will be in the future than what it
has been in the past.
I have stated I was a member from 1934 to 1935, and have had
dealings with the Communist Party in the past. Of what earthly use
is it for me to go into the past. The thing that is important is what is
my viewpoint today. I hope I have conveyed the sincerity of my
conviction.
Mr. Tavenner. How would you test the sincerity of an individual
without examining his acts?
Mr. Pressman. As to the future?
Mr. Tavenner. As to the present.
Mr. Pressman. I have stated my position. It remains to be seen.
Mr. Tavenner. You are not here as a voluntary witness. You
were subpenaed here?
Mr. Pressman. You know darn well you subpenaed me.
Mr. Tavenner. But you made it appear you were here as a volun-
tary witness.
Mr. Pressman. I was subpenaed, but I issued my public statement
before there was any subpena.
Mr. Tavenner. Certainly.
There is another individual I would like to ask you about that I
omitted. Are you acquainted with Lem Harris, the agricultural ex-
pert of the Communist Party? A question was asked you about him
this morning.
Mr. Pressman. Lem Harris? I have never met the man.
Mr. Tavenner. You have never met him?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you think you may have met him on Ohio
Street in Chicago?
Mr. Pressman. Ohio Street in Chicago?
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been on Ohio Street in Chicago and
conferred with anybody watli regard to the agricultural phase of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I am sure I did not meet with any Communist in
Chicago in regard to agricultural activities.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you had, since 1935 until your break with the
party was complete, any connection or negotiations with Amtorg
Trading Corp.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2895
Mr. Pressman. About 6 or 8 months ago I was requested to look
over a matter in an official, legal capacity, a legal matter, a con-
templated lawsuit. That was the beginning and the end.
Mr. Nixon. Have you ever done any work for the Soviet Embassy?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. Do you know Mr. Novokov?
Mr. Pressman. I do.
Mr. Nixon. In what connection did you know him?
Mr. Pressman. I met him once or twice socially, and I have also
been requested, and for a period of 3 or 4 months I have done, estate
work. In cases of individuals who die in this country leaving bequests
to foreign countries, including Russia, I have represented the persons
in the foreign country in this country. For a period of a few months
I represented those individuals in estate matters, but about 3 months
ago I disconnected myself completely from this work. In that con-
nection I met Mr. Novokov.
Mr. Nixon. It was Mr. Novokov who brought those cases to you?
Mr. Pressman. In that connection I met Mr. Novokov,
Mr. Nixon. Do you know Abraham Pomerantz?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. He was attorney for Judy Coplon and Air. Gubichev?
Mr. Pressman. He was attorney for Gubichev.
Mr. Nixon. In what connection have you known him?
Mr. Pressman. I have known him 20 years as an attorney. When
we first met we were fellow counselors in a boys' camp.
Mr. Nixon. Were you consulted in connection with that case?
Mr. Pressman. Mr. Pomerantz asked me to consult with him, and
I drafted some recommendations of law.
Mr. Nixon. Did you have anything to do with the selection of Mr.
Pomerantz?
Mr. Pressman. No. That was done by Gubichev.
Mr. Nixon. Were you asked by Novokov or anybody else about
Mr. Pomerantz's qualifications?
Mr. Pressman. No. I was asked by Mr. Novokov if there were
names of attorneys in New York who might be useful. He mentioned
several names, one of which was Mr. Pomerantz, and I said I knew
Mr. Pomerantz.
Mr. Nixon. He asked j^our opinion of several attorneys?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Pressman, did you make a trip abroad in 1945?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Through what countries did you travel? •
Mr. Pressman. I was a member of a delegation from the CIO that
went to the city of Paris, I believe, to set up the Woi'ld Federation of
Trade Unions. "^ The delegation consisted of all the vice presidents of
the CIO and myself. After that task was completed we traveled by
air to Berlin, from Berlin to Moscow, from Moscow to Leningrad,
from Leningrad to Berlin, back to Paris, then to the United States.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the occasion for that trip to Russia?
Mr. Pressman. The Russian Trade Union extended an invitation
to Philip Carey, and Philip Carey accepted the invitation and led our
delegation to the Soviet LTnion.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any knowledge of the selection of
groups of individuals from labor to travel to Russia where the trans-
portation was furnished by World Tourists, Inc.?
2896 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Pressman. I haven't any information with respect to that.
Mr. Tavenner. Was this trip in 1945 your only trip to the Soviet
Union?
Mr. Pressman. The only trip I have made abroad except for my
trip to Mexico, By the way, I did make a trip to Bermuda on my
honeymoon.
Mr. Tavenner. We are not asking about that.
Mr. Nixon. In regard to that trip to Mexico, do you know a man
by the name of Alark Moran?
Mr. Pressman. What is that name?
Mr. Nixon. Mark Moran, or Gerald Mark Moran?
Mr. Pressman. No; absolutely not.
Mr. Nixon. In that connection, I think it might be well at this
point to put in the record here the version of the meeting — I assume
it was the one Mr. Pressman referred to — that Mr. Chambers gave
in December 1948. There are differences of names and places. I
might point out, however, in that connection, before I read this,
that it does not involve espionage.
Mr. Pressman. May I ask the date of that incident Chambers
describes?
Mr. Nixon. It will appear as I read it.
Mr. Pressman. I want to call attention to another incident where
in 1936 he put me in Washington.
Mr. Nixon (reading):
Mr. Stripling. Did you ever hear of a man named Gerald Mark Moran?
Mr. Chambers. Yes. I heard of him under the name of Mark Moran. I
assume that is the same name. Shall I tell you about the circumstances under
which I heard of him?
Mr. Stripling. Yes.
Mr. Chambers. Dr. Rosenbleitt had gone to Russia sometime in 1935, I
imagine, and he reappeared in New York sometime in 1937 or 1938 and made
contact with me and told me that he had come on a special mission, that Stalin
had recently had a close look at the munitions industry in Russia and had dis-
covered to his horror that there was no automatic shell-loading machinery, that
shells were still being loaded by hand by women, and he wanted to buy shell-
loading machinery in the United States, but he didn't want to buy them at the
going price, and he wanted all kinds of blueprints and specifications thrown in.
Dr. Rosenbleitt asked me to give him for this work and other work the smartest
Communist lawyer whom I knew and also a man who would have access in the
course of his normal business to patents of all kinds.
Well, I started thinking about the problem and the man who had both those
qualifications turned out to be the general counsel of the CIO, Mr. Lee Pressman.
He was a very smart lawyer, and he was doing some kind of special work for the
Rust Bros., who had invented the cotton picker, and jwho was dealing with
other patents.
So, I introduced Dr. Rosenbleitt to Lee Pressman at Sachers Restaurant in
New York City, a restaurant on Madison Avenue between Forty-second and
Forty-first Streets, which was much favored by Dr. Rosenbleitt. He then took
Pressman awav. I don't believe I saw Pressman again.
But either from Rosenbleitt or Peters or someone, I learned that Rosenbleitt
had connected Pressman directly with Mark Moran, with whom he continued to
work, and I was told made trips around this country on munitions-buying excur-
sions, and also in Mexico. I was told by J. Peters specifically, I remember that,
at one point their airplane was forced down on one side or the other of the border
and that Moran was very much perturbed because he was afraid they would be
watched and caught.
I think Mr. Pressman has already gone into this incident.
Mr. Pressman. No, I haven't. I would like to comment. Will I
be given that opportunity?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2897
Mr. Nixon. Certainly. Your recollection of such an incident in-
volved Mr. Eckliart?
Mr. Pressman. My recollection is of no such incident.
Mr. Nixon. But your recollection of your meeting with Mr.
Chambers involved Mr. Eckhart?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct, on this specific incident of accom-
panying Mr. Eckhart to Mexico, and that was between June and the
fall of 1936. And my name and Mr. Eckhart's appear on the roster
of the airline. If you would go to the airline instead of these other
sources you could find the facts.
Mr. Walter. What airline was it?
Mr. Pressman. I believe American .Airline.
Mr. Walter. Was your plane forced down?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Harrison. Until you gave that information we had no airline
to check with.
Mr. Pressman. We changed at Fort Worth. We took a chartered
plane to Laredo, Pan American, to Mexico City, and direct from
Mexico City to New York. That was between June and the fall
of 1936.
Mr. Nixon. When did you last see J. Peters?
Mr. Pressman. I really can't tell you. I know I met him once
or twice.
Mr. Nixon. Have you seen him in the past 5 years?
Mr. Pressman. I can't say.
Mr. Nixon. How well did you know J. Peters?
Mr. Pressman. I did not know him.
Mr. Nixon. There were some occasions on which you saw him?
Mr. Pressman. Yes, after I left the group.
Mr. Nixon. You can't recall when you last saw him?
Mr. Pressman. No. When did he leave the country?
Mr. Nixon. Can you describe Mr. Eckhart?
Mr. Pressman. About as tall as myself or taller. At that time,
in 1936, I was about 30 years of age. I would judge he was in his
early fifties. Nothing distinctive in any way I could identify him by.
Mr. Nixon. Was he heavy or slight?
Mr. Pressman. No. Average weight.
Mr. Nixon, No speaking characteristics?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. You have never seen him since?
Mr. Pressman. For a week or two after coming back there was a
question of setting up a corporation in New York City to do the task.
Mr. Nixon. You have not heard of him since?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. Was he an American citizen?
Mr. Pressman. I don't Imow. I never inquired. I went to
Mexico with him, but there was no need for a passport. We got a
visiting card from the Mexican Embassy to go to Mexico. I would
have thought he was a Spaniard.
Mr. Nixon. Over how long a period did you know him?
Mr. Pressman. For the period I have described, when he came in,
a week or two before we left for Mexico, and a week or tvvo after we
returned. We were in Mexico only a few days.
Mr. Nixon. What did you call him?
2898 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. PRfissMAN. I think Joe.
Mr. Nixon. You called him "Joe"?
Mr. Pressman. That is right.
Mr. Nixon. You don't recall anv meetings with J. Peters in the
last 5 years?
Mr. Pressman. Wlien did he leave the country?
Mr. Nixon. J. Peters?
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. Nixon. I think 1948.
Mr. Pressman. You see the difficulty I have been having about
dates.
Mr. Nixon. I think Peters left in 1948.
Mr. Pressman. I think 2 or 3 years prior to that I may have
seen him.
Mr. Nixon. Socially?
Mr. Pressman. That is right.
Mr. Nixon. Never in a business connection?
Mr. Pressman. That is absolutely correct.
Mr. Nixon. Never in a business connection since the time you
broke, organizationally speaking, with the party?
Mr. Pressman_ That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. Was Peters a Communist?
Mr. Pressman. I assume he was.
Mr. Nixon. You want to be certain, don't you?
Mr. Pressman. When he came to our group in the capacity he did,
I took it for granted he was.
Mr. Nixon. You have never heard that he left the party?
Mr. Pressman. I never heard it.
Mr. Nixon. That is all.
Mr. Pressman. May I say, jocularly, just as I would never inquire
of you if you had left the Republican Party, I didn't ask if he had
left the Communist Party or was still in.
Mr. Nixox. I know that an expression frequently used in Com-
munist circles is that there is no difference between an affiliation
with the Communist Party, Republican Party, or Democratic Party.
You recognize there is a difference, I assume?
Mr. Pressman. I recognize the basic difference. On that issue,
I recall back in the early days of the New Deal, on the occasion when
I joined, to be a Democrat at that time and to participate in the New
Deal program under President Roosevelt was akin to being a Com-
munist in the mhids of some people in this country.
Mr. Harrison. You were both, though.
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. In the light of your testimony today, it is very possible
there were some who were Democrats and also members of the
Communist Party.
Mr. Pressman. I don't know.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Ware, who did the recruiting for the Communist
Party, was a member of the Republican Party and President Hoover's
adviser in the Agriculture Department.
Mr. Pressman. He may have been.
Mr. Nixon. In 1935 you were general counsel to two of the most
powerful agencies in Government?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2899
Mr. Pressman. I was general counsel of two agencies of the Govern-
ment. Whether they were powerful, I don't know.
Mr. Nixon. My point is this, that this line: "What is the differ-
ence? You don't ask if a person is a Democrat or a Republican, so
why should you ask if he is a Communist?" I think there is a real
difference. I think at the present time certainly an effort is being
made in both political parties to be sure they have no connection with
the Communist Party. That is a correct statement, is it not, Mr.
Walter?
Mr. Walter. Possibly.
Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned one transaction you had with
Amtorg Trading Corp. Were there others?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Caroline Abrams, the wife of Len
D. Cowe?
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe she was employed by the Labor Non-
partisan League in Washington?
Mr. Pressman. I believe she was many years ago.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Cowe was the editor, I believe, at one time, of
the CIO News?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Pressman. I haven't the slightest idea.
Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned earlier in your testimony that you
had not recommended anyone, to your knowledge, for a position with
the United States Government, except the one instance of, I believe,
Nathan Witt?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you recommended anyone for a position in
the United Nations?
Mr. Pressman. Absolutely not.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you recommend anyone for a position with
the Labor Non-Partisan League here in Washington?
Mr. Pressman. I don't think so, but that is not a Government
agency.
Mr. Tavenner. I understand, but I am asking the question.
Mr. Pressman. I don't think I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Russ Nixon?
Mr. Pressman. Oh, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you instrumental in securing his employ-
ment in the Labor Non-Partisan League?
Mr. Pressman. No; I don't think so. I think he arranged that
with Mr. John L. Lewis. I don't recall either way.
Mr. Tavenner. You know Russ Nixon very well?
Mr. Pressman. Oh, certainly.
Mr. Tavenner. You would know if you aided him in getting that
position?
Mr. Pressman. No. I know him very well because he became
Washington representative of the United Electrical Radio and Machine
Workers Union, and I had many relations with him. But going back
to 1939 or 1940, when you ask if I recommended him to John Lewis,
I doubt it. I think he had his own connections with Mr. Lewis or
the Labor Non-Partisan League.
2900 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Tavenner. You mean you had nothino; to flo mth his coming
to Washington in connection with the Labor Non-Partisan League?
Mr. Pressman. That is correct.
Mr. Nixon. In that connection, you know Drew Pearson, I
assume?
Mr. Pressman. As well as you do.
Mr. Nixon. In one of his columns sometime ago he stated you had
recommended Max Lowenthal for the position of executive secretary
to the Labor Policy Committee of the War Production Board. Did
you see that column?
Mr. Pressman. No, but if he did, that is in his 16 percent of in-
accuracy.
Mr. Nixon. Your answer is you did not recommend him?
Mr. Pressman. Absolutely not.
Mr. Nixon. Have you recommended him for any position?
Mr. Pressman. No.
Mr. Nixon. Was he a member of the International Juridical
Association?
Mr. Pressman. I don't recall. That would be a matter of record.
Mr. Nixon. You know him?
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. Nixon. In business or socially?
Mr. Pressman. Socially. He was counsel for some Senate legisla-
tive committee, and I think I may have had some business connections
with him.
Mr. AIcSweeney. What do you mean by "social"? I get invited
to lunch to talk business. Is that a social engagement?
Mr. Pressman. Do people ever meet in your home to play Canasta?
I consider that a social engagement.
Mr. McSweeney, There is nothing else you talk about, just of a
social nature?
Mr. Pressman, That is right.
May I, with your permission, Mr. NLxon, go back to that record
which you read, that perfectly fantastic story Mr. Chambers told?
He has me down as an expert on patents. I have never handled a
patent matter in my life. Second, he has me doing business with Rust
Brothers on a machine. I don't know what that machine is. I
remember in triple A some discussion of Rust Brothers inventing
a machine that could allegedly pick cotton. That is the only knowl-
edge I have of Rust Brothers or their machine. Third, he has me
getting legal work through him in 1937 or 1938. During that period
I was full time with the CIO and had no private practice at all.
I have already answered the question of the airplane. In 1937 and
1938 I wasn't flying on au-planes in connection with the Rust Brothers
machine or patent work. Every day of my life is a matter of public
record.
Mr. Wood. You expressed earlier in your testimony this morning
considerable abhorrence to the Nazi regime and its tactics. What
distinction do you draw between Nazis and Communists as threats to
the free democratic institutions of this country?
Mr. Pressman. I think so far as Communist aggression is con-
cerned—— -
Mr. Wood. It is just as vicious as anything the Nazis ever did,
isn't it?
COMMUNISM EN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2901
Mr. Pressman. It has a basic evil. I think there is a developing
feeling in this country that all one has to do to appear as being in
favor of the institutions of this country is to be anti-Communist. I
think it is equally important, when you are being anti-Communist
and want to be prodemocratic, to be anti-Nazi as well. I insist that
it isn't sufficient for people to claim they are prodemocratic merely
because they are anti-Communist. It is equally important we be
against the Nazis to the same degree.
Mr. Wood. In your opinion today, the two ideologies are about
equally evil as far as the institutions of democracy are concerned?
Mr. Pressman. My view is there are evils in communism and there
are evils in nazism.
Mr, Wood. Is there any greater evil in one than in the other?
Mr. Pressman. I am not weighing them. I am against both.
Mr. Wood. We will have to adjourn until 10 o'clock in the morning.
Mr. Tavenner. I am finished, unless there are questions by mem-
bers of the committee.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter?
Mr. Walter. No.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Harrison?
Mr. Harrison. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. McSweeney?
Mr. McSweeney. I have been a teacher of history. Do you say
it is wrong for us to delve into the past?
Mr. Pressman. I said I thought it would be more useful to look
to the present and future.
Mr. McSweeney. We say the past is prologue. A doctor goes
into the past with his patients, and you do it when you take a new
client, do you not, get something of the background? The com-
mittee has a right to tie in the past with the present.
Mr. Pressman. That is correct. I don't question the right.
Mr. Chairman, I would appreciate it if I could be completed today.
Mr. Wood. Will you be available at some future time if you are
needed?
Mr. Pressman. Yes.
Mr. Wood. With that understanding, we will excuse you for the
time being, unless you are recalled.
The committee will stand at recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow
morning.
(Thereupon, at 5:25 p. m. on Monday, August 28, 1950, a recess
was taken until Tuesday, August 29, 1950, at 10 a. m.).
HEAEIISGS EEGAEDING COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED
STATES GOVEENMENT-PAKT 2
THURSDAY, AUGUST 31, 1950
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee On Un-American Activities,
Washington, D. C.
PUBLIC hearing
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to call, at 10:50 a. m. in room 226, Old House Office Build-
ing, Hon. John S. Wood, chahman, presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives John S. Wood,
Francis E. Walter, John McSweeney (arriving as indicated), Richard
M. Nixon, and Harold H. Velde.
Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Louis J.
Russell, senior investigator; Donald T. Appell and Courtney Owens,
investigators; and A. S. Poore, editor.
Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order.
Let the record disclose that for the purpose of this hearing the
chairman has set up a subcommittee composed of Messrs. Walter,
Nixon, Velde, and Wood, and that they are all present.
Does counsel desire to proceed at this point?
Mr. Tavenner. I would like, Mr. Chairman, to call Mr. Abraham
George Silverman.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Silverman, will you stand and be sworn, please?
You solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God?
Mr. Silverman. Yes, I do.
TESTIMONY OF ABRAHAM GEORGE SILVERMAN, ACCOMPANIED
BY HIS COUNSEL, BERNARD JAFFE
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please?
Mr. Silverman. Abraham George Silverman.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented here by counsel?
Mr. Silverman. Yes, Mr. Bernard Jaffe.
Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself, including his
address, for the record?
Mr. Jaffe. Bernard Jaffe, 135 Broadway.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Silverman, you appear here this morning in
pursuance of a subpena served on you on August 29, I believe?
Mr. Silverman. Yes.
2903
67052 — 50 — pt. 2 5
2904 COMMUNISM IN" THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee when and where you
were born?
Mr. Silverman. I was born in Poland, 1906.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you arrive in the United States?
Mr. Silverman. I think it was in 1906.
Mr, Tavenner. We did not understand the date of your birth.
Mr. Silverman. February 2, 1900. You did not ask the date of
my birth.
Mr. Tavenner. We asked when and where you were born.
Mr. Silverman. I am sorry. I misunderstood you,
Mr. Tavenner. When and by what means did you obtain United
States citizenship?
Mr. Silverman. I appeared before the appropriate court in Boston
in 1921 when I attained the age of 21. I think there was some relaxa-
tion of the waiting period by reason of my honorable discharge from
the United States Army during the First World War.
(Hon. John McSweeney entered the hearing room.)
Mr. Wood, Mr. Silverman, will you speak a little louder, please?
Mr, Silverman. Yes, I will try.
Mr. Tavenner. How are you presently employed?
Mr. Silverman. I am not presently employed.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your employment since August
of 1948?
Mr. Jaffe. Was that 1948 or 1940?
Mr. Tavenner. 1948.
Mr. Silverman. I worked for J. W. Field, a printing broker, from
approximately June to October of 1949. Up to that time I had beea
unemployed for practically a year. Then I went to work for Murray
W. Latimer, industrial relations counselor or adviser,
Mr. Velde. What was that name?
Mr, Silverman. Murray W. Latimer. He asked me to go to work
for him in the field of pensions and social insurance as a specialist ia
that area,
Mr. Tavenner. Was that private employment?
Mr. Silverman. That was a private employer.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you cease working for Mr. Mm-ray
Latimer?
Mr. Silverman. As of yesterday. On my own initiative I resigned,
in order to keep from causing Mr. Latimer, my employer, any embar-
rassment and possible injury in connection with my appearance before
this committee.
Mr, Tavenner. At the time of your appearance before the
Committee on Un-American Activities on August 12, 1948, you gave
your employment in the Federal Government as follows. I will read
it and then ask you whether or not you desire to add anything to it or
correct it:
Chief Statistician, Labor Advisory Board, NRA, fall of 1933 to
middle of 1934;
Negotiator for the United States Tariff Commission, November 1935
through March 1936;
Director, Bureau of Research and Information Services, Railroad
Retirement Board, 1936 to 1942;
Assistant Chief of Air Staff, Materiel and Services, United States-
Air Forces, March 1942 to August 1945.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2905
Mr. Silverman. I would like to make one or two corrections.
They are not so much corrections as they are explanations. I was a
special expert for the Tariff Commission, and in that capacity I helped
to negotiate the Canadian trade agreement. My regular title was
special expert.
Then, in connection with the position I held with the Army Air
Forces, that is a little bit, well, shall I say garbled, by me or by some
other process. The last position I held with the Army Air Forces
was in the Control Division, where I was in charge of Analysis and
Plans. Originally it was Analysis and Reports, and later Analysis
and Plans, and the Control Division was working under the Assistant
Chief of Air Staff, Materiel and Services.
Mr. Tavenner. State a little more in detail what your duties were
in that position.
Mr. Silverman. Basically, to see to it that all the component
parts of airplanes were brought together on paper so that they would
come out on schedule on the production line, not only in connection
with airplanes, but all other materiel that went into the fighting of
the war so far as the Air Force was concerned. It had to do with
scheduling of airplane production and supplies.
Mr. Tavenner. And I assume from that explanation that it also
included statistical work on the production of aircraft material?
Mr. Silverman. Definitely.
Mr. Velde. Who was your immediate superior at that time?
Mr. Silverman. The head of the Control Division. There were
many changes in the organization of the Air Forces. The last one
was a Control Division, which had organizational problems and re-
porting problems and accounting problems. The head of that was
Colonel Dyson.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name, please?
Mr. Silverman. D-y-s-o-n. He, in turn, was working directly
under the Assistant Chief of Air Staff, Materiel and Services.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was that?
Mr. Silverman. Colonel Powers was the last one. The one pre-
ceding him was General Eccles. The one preceding him was General
Meyers.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was General Meyers' first name?
Mr. Silverman. Bennett, I think M., Meyers.
Mr. Tavenner. Are there any further explanations or additions
that you desire to make?
Mr. Silverman. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you outline to the committee briefly your
educational background?
Mr. Silverman. I graduated from Boston English High School;
2 years at Boston University, and transferred to Harvard; graduated
from Harvard in 1921; got a master's degree from Leland Stanford
University in 1923, and a Ph.D. from Harvard in 1929 or 1930. I
think it was 1929; it might have been 1930.
Mr. Tavenner. In listing your employment, did you fail to con-
sider that you were at one time employed by the Division of Monetary
Research of the United States Treasury Department?
Mr. Silverman. No. I was not employed by the Division of
Monetary Research. I served in an advisory capacity, in one parti-
cular capacity, part time, on loan.
2906 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Tavenner. You were on loan to the Division of Monetary
Research of the United States Treasury Department for a period of
several months?
Mr. Silverman. As a matter of fact, I forgot to list something else.
I was also on loan, in a manner of speaking, to the War Refugee Board.
Mr. Tavenner. When was that?
Mr. Silverman. I think in 1945.
Mr. Tavenner. When were you on loan to the Treasury Depart-
ment?
Mr. Silverman. I spent part of my time in the Treasury Depart-
ment for 2 or 3 months on loan.
Mr. Tavenner. When was that?
Mr. Silverman. That was in 1941. I was serving in an advisory
capacity in connection with frozen funds.
Mr. Tavenner. At whose instance were you loaned to the Treasury
Department?
Mr. Silverman. Mr. White.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Dexter Wliite?
Mr. Silverman. Mr. Dexter White.
Mr. Tavenner. Who was your immediate superior while you were
there?
Mr. Silverman. Mr. White and to a certain extent perhaps Mr. —
the organizational lines were not clear because I was not looked upon
as a member of the organization, but I was merely there to help them
with a particular problem— Morris Bernstein might conceivably have
considered himself related to me collaterally on that particular
problem.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your function when you were serving
on loan with the Treasury Department?
Mr. Silverman. It was to get up a form that woidd ask all possible
questions as to what holdings the nationals of other countries had
in this country. It was a long and technical form, probably the
longest in the history of such forms.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Mr. Dexter White prior to serving
on loan with the Treasury Department?
Mr. Silverman. I would like to consult with my attorney.
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. Yes, I knew Mr. Wliite for a very, very long time.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of that association?
Mr. Silverman. Originally I met him at Stanford University,
where he was a student, and later on I was a fellow student of his at
Harvard.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask you whether, in applying for
your position with the Army Air Forces — that is, the position that
you just described a few moments ago — you gave the following
individuals as references: Harry D. Wliite, Assistant Secretary of the
Treasury; David Weintraub, Economic Adviser, WPB; Lauclilin
Currie, Administrative Assistant to the President; A. Emanuel Fox,
member of the Chinese Stabilization Fund; James Robinson, Admin-
istrative Officer, WPB; and Frank A. Southard, Assistant Dii'ector of
Monetary Research, Treasury Department.
Mr. Silverman. That sounds reasonable. I know all these people,
I don't recoUect the exact chcumstances. That, I would imagine, is
correct.
COMMUNISM m THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2907
Mr. Wood. We still can't hear you.
Mr. Silverman. I say that is undoubtedly correct.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your association and
relationship with Mr. David Weintraub?
Mr. Silverman. Under these circumstances, and on the advice of
counsel, I refuse to answer that, decline to answer that, in the exercise
of my constitutional privilege under the fifth amendment, since what I
would say might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where he is now?
Mr. Silverman. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. What positions did he hold with the United States
Government, to yom- knowledge, other than that of Economic Adviser
of the War Production Board?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. I decline to answer in the exercise of my con-
stitutional privilege under the fifth amendment, since what I would
say might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the character of your association with
Mr. Lauchlin Currie, and over what period of time did you know him?
Mr. Silverman. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds, in the exercise of my constitutional privilege under the fifth
amendment, since what I would say might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. I will ask you the same question in relation to
Mr. A. Emanuel Fox.
Mr. Silverman. I give the same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what positions Mr. A. Emanuel Fox
has held other than that of member of the Chinese Stabilization Fund?
Mr. Silverman. He was head of the Tariff Commission. That is a
matter of public record.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where he is now?
Mr. Silverman. He is dead.
Mr. Tavenner. When did he die?
Mr. Silverman. I don't remember.
Mr. Tavenner, Do you know how long he has been dead,
approximately?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. Maybe 4 years. I don't definitely recollect.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your association with
Mr. James Robinson, and over how long a period did you know him?
Mr. Silverman. I decline to answer in the exercise of my con-
stitutional privilege under the fifth amendment, since what I would say
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. What positions has he held with the Government,
to your knowledge, other than that of administrative oSicer of the
War Production Board?
Mr. Silverman. It is a matter of public record that he held the
position of Coordinator of Unemployment Insurance, I think, Railroad
Retirement Board.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where he is now?
Mr. Silverman. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know his present employment?
Mr. Silverman. No.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been the nature of your association with
Mr. Frank A. Southard, and how long have you known him?
2908 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Silverman. I decline to answer on the same constitutional
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. What positions has he held with the Federal
Government other than that of Assistant Director of Monetary
Research, Treasury Department?
Mr. Silverman. I think it is a matter of public record that he was
working for the United States Tariff Commission, also as a special
expert, at the same time that I was working for the United States
Tariff Commission as a special expert.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where he is now?
Mr, Silverman. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Mr. Southard was ever in
the Naval Intelligence Service?
Mr. Silverman. I can't remember now that I ever knew.
Mr. Tavenner. When was the last time that you saw him?
(Witness conferred Avith his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. Years ago. I haven't the faintest conception.
Mr. Wood. I didn't hear you.
Mr. Silverman. Years ago, so far as I can recollect.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Silverman, the committee has again subpenaed
you in an effort to solicit your cooperation with respect to the truth
or falsity of the testimony given to this committee by Miss Elizabeth
T. Bentley and also Mr. Whittaker Chambers. At the time you were
before this committee during the Eighty-first Congress, you stated, in a
statement read before the committee, and I quote:
In the light of these circumstances —
which were the circumstances you had previously enumerated —
and'in view of the fact that the New York grand jury has not been dismissed,
and this committee has indicated that a special grand jury may be convened in the
city of Washington, my defense against the malicious charges requires the use of
those provisions written into the Constitution of the United States precisely in
order to protect the innocent against the peril of persecution.
Mr. Silverman, in view of the fact that the grand jury to which you
referred in 1948 has now been dismissed and there is no present grand
jury sitting investigating the charges of Elizabeth T. Bentley, I will
ask if you will cooperate with the committee in answering questions
relating to her testimony?
Mr. Silverman. Go ahead and ask me the questions.
Mr. Tavenner. When and under what circumstances did you
meet Miss Bentley?
Mr. Jaffe. I object to that. That assumes a state of facts
Mr. Wood. Counsel will confer with the witness. You are at
liberty to confer with the witness at any time. Under the rules that
we operate under, counsel has the privilege at any time of conferring
with and advising the witness.
Mr. Jaffe. I see; but I am not to make objections. P
^ Mr. Tavenner. I will change the form of the question. Do you
know Elizabeth Bentley?
\ Mr. Silverman. I decline to answer in the exercise of my constitu-
tional privilege under the fifth amendment, since what I would say
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question?
Mr. Wood. If possible, I would like to wait until counsel is through.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2909
Mr. Velde. I think it is important at this point.
Mr. Wood. Very well.
Mr. Velde. I would like to read into the record a statement made
voluntarily by Mr. Silverman in his last appearance before this
committee in 1948. I quote:
I am innocent of any charges of espionage or other criminal conduct. With
regard to my accuser, who has done me such irreparable harm, I am compelled to
conclude that only a mind distorted by fear or greed or deep frustration could
construct an edifice of such monstrous falsehood.
Is that statement still true?
Mr. Silverman. Yes.
Mr. Velde. In view of that fact, it you are innocent and not
guilty of any criminal conduct, how could it possibly incriminate you
to answer the question?
Mr. Silverman. Under these circumstances it means just this:
That I have been pursued and harassed continuously and regularly in
an intensified form. The conditions of life have become exceedingly
oppressive for me and my family, and the most innocent act is misin-
terpreted and searched out with all sorts of suspicion; and under
those circumstances I beheve that I must fall back on my constitu-
tional rights under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Silverman, it isn't the purpose of this committee
to smear anybody. We have tried, to the best of our ability, to
protect the legitimate rights of everybody appearing before us. You
have enjoyed the benefits of this Government of ours over a period of
years. Y'ou have had good positions, positions that paid high salaries,
and I hope you bear that in mind when you take the position that you
will not assist this committee in its work in endeavoring to ascertain
whether or not there has been any xjonspiracy to overthrow the
Government that has been so good to you. I just don't understand
why you are not willing, under those circumstances, to cooperate with
this committee.
Mr. Silverman. The facts of the last 3 or 4 years have been
somewhat otherwise with reference to the possibility of living like a
decent human being, both with respect to the conditions of living and
the possibilities of work. This is my Government, and I am a strong
supporter of it, but on the advice of counsel, under the circumstances,
I must fall back on the exercise of my constitutional privilege under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Walter. Do I understand you that you are willing to co-
operate with this committee but your lawyer has advised you not to?
Mr. Silverman. No. I firmly identify myself with that particular
point of view.
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Walter. Don't you feel that your appearance here might
enable you to clarify the atmosphere, so that no longer would you be
harassed, as you put it?
Mr. Silverman. It is not unwillingness to cooperate with the
committee. It is merely the effort to protect my privileges and
rights and to protect myself against conditions which become too
oppressive and too difficult for me to handle except by falling back
on my constitutional rights
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
2910 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Silverman (continuing). With regard to certain questions..
It is very difficult for me to adopt that point of view. I mean, I am
just the sort of person who finds it difficult not to answer any questions
that are asked honestly and directly; but, in view of all the circum-
stances that have transpired, I am forced to fall back on my constitu-
tional rights.
Mr. Walter. WTiat circumstances?
Mr. Silverman. The degree of harassment I have been subjected
to is simply unbelievable. After all, I didn't make up my mind to
walk out in the street and figure out how to make a living under
very horrible circumstances because I wanted to. I had to, because
I simply could not see myself being put in the position of embarrassing
or harming the living opportunities of other people.
Mr. Nixon. You feel, Mr. Silverman, that your position of con-
tinuing to refuse to answer questions on the ground of possible self-
incrimination will in some way dispel these circumstances that you
have spoken about?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. I have no explicit opinion on that particular score.
I don't think it at all follows. All I am doing is refusing to answer
certain questions in the exercise of my constitutional privilege to do so.
Mr. Nixon. You realize your refusal to answer those questions put
you in the very position you have described; do you not?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. I am not at all certain on that score. If it does,
it isn't a sufficiently powerful reason, in view of all the other circum-
stances, to cause me to come to any other conclusion as to how I
must act.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Silverman, if I might make this observation, I
gathered from the testimony you gave when you were before this
committee 2 years ago, from the language you used that has just been
read to you, that you at least intended to convey the impression that
you were entirely guiltless of the accusations and charges made
against you and insinuated against you in the testimony of the witness
who has been mentioned. It is difficult for me to understand, if
that is true, why you are now unwilling to take advantage of this
forum and declare publicly and categorically
Mr. Silverman. In view of the way I have been pursued •
Mr. Wood. No one is pursuing you now. You are given an oppor-
tunity to cither repudiate these charges, deny them completely, or
admit them if they are true, or to decline to answer. Declining to
answer may have only one inference from an impartial standpoint,
and I am certainly impartial.
Mr. Silverman. Nobody can understand the nature of the things
involved in terms of the oppression that I am talking about except
the one who has lived through them, and he has to make his decisions
on that basis.
Mr. Wood. Taking you in good faith as to your protestations of
innocence of any wrongdoing, isn't this a good opportunity, about as
good as you can find, to set the record clear on that score once and
for all?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. I am willing to set the record straight insofar as
I can ; but, with regard to specific questions, I must decline to answer
in the exercise of my privilege under the fifth amendment.
COMMUlSriSM ESf THE UNITED STATES GOVERJSnVIETSrT 2911
Mr. Wood, Very well.
Mr. McSwEENEY. May I ask a question?
Mr. Wood. Mr. McSweeney.
Mr. McSweeney. You said you were unemployed now. Is that
because of the situation that arose before this committee in 1948?
Mr. Silverman. No. It is by virtue of the situation that arose
because of the issuance of the subpena this time.
Mr. McSweeney. Have you sought employment and been refused?
Mr. Silverman. I spent a whole year seeking employment. I
wound up by doing something I had never done before.
Mr. McSweeney. Was this cloud the excuse used for not giving
you employment?
Mr. Silverman. It was a little more specific than that. Every
prospective employer was visited and questioned, and various devices
were employed.
Mr. McSweeney. Then wouldn't it be true, as our chairman
suggested, that this cloud could all be lifted if you testified fully and
frankly before this committee?
Mr. Silverman. In view of all the circumstances, it has appeared
to me, on advice of counsel and on my own instance, that I must
exercise my privilege under the fifth amendment against possible self-
incrimination.
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. Where it applies.
Mr. McSweeney. One of my chief worries as a member of this
committee is that people who appear before it might have their em-
ployment jeopardized.
Mr. Silverman. In my instance, the mere issuance of the subpena
was sufficient to cause me, as a man of integrity — a great deal of
integrity, I believe — to take the initiative and resign because of the
possibility— not possibility but probability — of harming the means of
earning a livelihood of others. I was not asked to resign, but it was
clear from all the circumstances that my failure to do so would have
these consequences.
Mr. Walter. Isn't it a fact you are being harassed, as you put it,
only because of the attitude which you took in testifying before this
committee, and, if that is true, would not the position you are taking
today aggravate that condition?
Mr. Silverman. That is not the only reason, in my opinion, why I
have been harassed. There has been a tendency to misinterpret
everything I have said. Nothing I have said or done has caused this;
it has been what other people have said, this fabric of falsification I
have referred to.
Mr. McSweeney. The sentiment of this committee that we are
trying to express — and I have every confidence in my colleagues that
they are sincere — is that we want to give you an opportunity to refute
those accusations.
Mr. Silverman. There is much more than appearance before this
committee that is at issue. And I don't consider that I am refusing to
cooperate with the committee. I simply feel that in regard to certain
questions I must exercise my constitutional privilege.
Mr. Walter. As a practical matter, why don't you use this
committee as the sounding board to remove the stigma that the state-
ments of other people have placed upon you?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
2912 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Silverman. I would very much like to do that, but in view of
the circumstances which I have described, which have extended over a
long period and which have caused me to react in different ways, I feel
I must exercise my constitutional privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Walter. I, for one, am willing to sit here as long as it takes you
to refute anything anybody has ever said about you that has resulted
in your being harassed.
Mr. McSwEENEY. Mr. Chairman, I make the suggestion that if
Mr. Silverman wishes to consult his counsel and go over it a little more
in detail than he can here, that that opportunity be given him. As
Mr. Walter says, we haven't the power to exonerate, but we have the
power to give the witness the privilege of a public hearing.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Silverman, we are trying to prevent the kind of
harrassment coming to the citizens of this Nation that the people of
the country you come from have been subjected to.
Mr. Wood. The committee will stand in recess for 10 minutes.
(Thereupon, at 11:35 a. m., a recess was taken until 11:45 a. m.)
Mr. Wood. The committee wUl be in order. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Silverman, you had a little time to consider
your position in this matter. Have you any statement you would
like to make on the chairman's suggestion?
Mr. Silverman. My counsel and I have considered the matter,
and we see no reason for changing my position. I am not refusing
to cooperate with this committee, in my view. What I am doing is
exercising my constitutional privilege with reference to those questions
the answer to which might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me then ask you a few questions about the
type of work that was being done in connection with your employ-
ment with the Air Staff, Materiel and Services Branch, of the Air
Forces. You have told us that part of that was control work, and I
don't understand what you mean by control work.
Mr. Silverman. Control was essentially related to the matter of
accounting, as one subject; organizational problems, organization of
the Alateriel Service and Air Service Commands insofar as they are
related to headquarters in Washington. It had to do with scheduling
and reporting in regard to production. It is a pretty technical concept.
Mr. Tavenner. And rather all-inclusive in its nature in the handl-
ing of contracts for the production of Air Force materiel?
Mr. Silverman. The basic proposition was with respect to the
scheduling of production. The mihtary problems were not Avithin
the purview of the Control Division. It was more business manage-
ment.
Mr. Tavenner. Would it be extensive enough to include the actual
delivery to the Armed Forces of the material?
Mr. Silverman. Yes. The end product would be the scheduling
of deliveries.
Mr. Tavenner. There has been considerable evidence before this
committee, taken back in January of this year, to the effect that
tremendous quantities of material of all descriptions passed to Russia
undejr the Lcnd-Lease program through Great Falls, where there was
a section set up by the Russians to receive that material. Colonel
Kotikov was the Russian official in charge of that section. There has
been considerable evidence that a lot of information and plans went
through Great Falls to the Russians. Do you know of any occasion
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2913
when members of the Russian Purchasing Commission, or other re-
presentatives of the Russian Government, came to your section and
obtained information relating to those materials?
Air. Silverman. To the best of my recollection I had absolutely no
connection whatsoever with any relations with the Russians. I don't
know anything about the amount of their production.
Mr. TaveNxVEr. Did they receive any information from your unit?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. Insofar as I know they didn't, but I can't speak
for the whole Army Air Forces or for the whole Control Division.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever meet Colonel Kotikov or any
representative of the Russian Government in connection with the
work of your office?
Mr. Silverman. To the best of my recollection, never.
Mr. Tavenner. Did any representative of the Russian Govern-
ment, whether a member of the Russian Purchasing Commission or not
ever seek information from you?
Mr. Silverman. To the best of my recollection, never.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time give information pertaining
to the statistics of production of materials to be used by the Air Force
to an unauthorized person?
Mr. Silverman. I never Imowingly gave any classified information
or documents to any unauthorized person.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Victor Perlo was a witness before this com-
mittee in August 1948, and he testified that he was employed with
the War Production Board, and this is his statement with regard to the
functions of that Board, with which he was connected:
In the War Production Board I was one of the analysts in the Office of Progress
Reports. It was my specific responsibility to analyze problems involved in the
production of aircraft and to prepare reports which I trust were of some sma 1
assistance in helping to increase and accelerate the production of military aircraft
during the war.
That was largely work in your field, was it not?
Mr. Silverman. In the same general field. The Army Air Forces
had to tie in with the War Production Board at particular points.
Mr. Tavenner. In connection with the performance of your
duties, did you confer frequently with Victor Perlo?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. I will ask you the question in a little different way;
Did you confer with him at all regarding materials of the Air Force?
Mr. Silverman. I don't beUeve I ever did confer with him with
respect to production or any other matter, but he was a representative
of the War Production Board in connection with certain committees.
Mr. Tavenner. Speak a little louder.
Mr. Silverman. In connection with certain committees; and my
recollection at this time is that it had something to do with labor. I
may have casually talked about matters that were of interest to both
the Army Air Forces and the War Production Board, but I never had
any offic-ial or other relations with him in regard to war production,
I don't know what his relations were with another section that had to
do with the War Production Board. I am trying to remember what
the name of that section was that had to do with the facilities required
for the production of aircraft and other materiel, of which General
Hopkins was the chief. I have a recollection I saw him there two or
three times.
2914 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Tavenner. I will confine the question now to your contact
with Victor Perlo in connection with your own duties or your own
work in your employment. Did you not confer with him by telephone
frequently in connection with official matters in your work?
Mr. Silverman. Indeed not.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you confer with him by telephone from your
office about matters that were not official?
Mr. Silverman. I don't have any recollection of ever having done
that. I answered the phone if anybody ever called me up. I didn't
have any elaborate screening processes. I spoke to anybody who
called me up. I have no recollection of ever speaking to him about
any of these matters. It is conceivable I might have had some general
discussion at lunch when several of us went to lunch.
Mr. Tavenner. Tell us more about the general discussions you
had with him at lunch.
Mr. Silverman. I have a recollection he was at the Army Air Forces
to attend these meetings now and then. I don't know how many
times. It seems to me it was very infrequently. Nothing I was
involved in, but he might have been in the office.
Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you confer with him on the telephone
frequently, a number of times, from your office?
Mr. Silverman. I personally, or somebody from my office?
Mr. Tavenner. You personally?
Mr. Silverman. I have no such recollection, unless he called me
up and asked me about something or other. I never caUed him up
that I recollect.
Mr. Tavenner. You say now that he may have initiated the con-
versation by calling you?
Mr. Silverman. I have no such recollection,
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Did you furnish him any information from your
office of any character?
Mr. Silverman. I have no recollection that I ever furnished any
information to him. If anyone within that office did so, insofar as
I have any recollection, it would be in connection with some casual
question relating to the organizational functioning between the Army
Air Forces and the War Production Board ; maybe a statement to the
effect that he was going to be in there for a meeting. I have no other
recollection than of the most casual sort.
Mr. Tavenner. What would be the occasion for jout conferring
with Victor Perlo?
Mr. Silverman. He was tied in with aircraft production in the
War Production Board. I would have no occasion to confer with
him, particularly, that I recollect. I don't know what his necessities
would be along those lines, in connection with the coordination be-
tween the two or attending meetings. To the best of my recollection
I never even attended a meeting at which he was present.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you known Victor Perlo?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. I decline to answer that question in the exercise
of my constitutional privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. When was the last time you saw him?
Mr. Silverman. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
COMMUNISM rN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2915
Mr. Tavenner. Did you also call Nathan Gregory Silvermaster by
telephone from your office?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. I decline to answer in the exercise of my con-
stitutional privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Miss Gilda Burke, secretary of Mr.
Silvermaster?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds
of possible self-incrimination.
Mr. Tavenner. How was Mr. Silvermaster employed at the time
that you occupied the position to which we have referred as being
in the Air Staff Materiel and Services Branch of the United States
Air Forces?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. That question assumes that I have some knowl-
edge of him, and I am refusing to answer it in the exercise of my
constitutional privileges.
Mr. Nixon. You mean you didn't have any knowledge of him?
Mr. Silverman. I am refusing to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time deliver a package of material
of any nature or description to the home of Nathan Gregory Silver-
master?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question in the exercise of
my constitutional privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been in the home of Nathan
Gregory Silvermaster?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Was William Ludwig Ullmann employed in the
Treasury Department at the same time you were?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. Well, the same point there. That question
assumes that I know him, and I am refusing to answer the question.
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. I would like to have the question separate with
respect to that.
Mr. Tavenner. My question is whether or not, to your knowledge,
William Ludwig Ullmann was employed in the Treasury Department
when you were employed there, or when you were on loan to that
Department?
Mr. Silverman. I never considered I was employed by the Treasury
Department.
Mr. Tavenner. You were on loan there?
Mr. Silverman. I was on loan there part of the time, and my
salary was paid by the Railroad Retirement Board.
Mr. Tavenner. Regardless of that, you were on loan to the
Treasury Department. During that period of time, was William
Ludwig Ullmann employed there?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. Yes; he was employed there at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you assist in getting him a recommendation
for his admission as a candidate to an officers' training school?
2916 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERJS^MENT
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question in the exercise of
my privilege under the fifth amendment, since what I would say
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Walter. Wliy do you think it might incriminate you to
recommend someone to be commissioned as an officer in the United
States Army?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. I have to refuse to answer that question, too, on
the same grounds.
Mr. Nixon. Mr. Silverman, I understood you to say a few moments
ago that you would make the statement today that you had never
given any Government material, documents, or information to any
unauthorized person. Is that correct?
Mr. Silverman. I said I never knowingly gave any classified
documents to any unauthorized person.
Mr. Nixon. Did you give any to Nathan Gregory Silvermaster?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question in the exercise of
my constitutional privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Walter. If you testify you never knowingly gave it to any-
body, why do you refuse to answer the specific question whether you
gave it to Mr. Silvermaster?
Mr. Silverman. Because I am refusing to say I ever knew
Mr. Silvermaster.
Mr. Walter. All right; all right. Mr. Tavenner, I would like to
have you explore the connection of A. Emanuel Fox with the Chinese
Stabilization Commission.
Mr. Tavenner. You furnished the name of Mr. Fox as one of the
persons who should be treated as a reference for one of the positions
you applied for. How long was he connected with the Chinese
Stabilization Fund, and where was he stationed?
Mr. Silverman. He died in China. I said it was about 4 or 5
years ago. My general recollection is that it was on the order of 1 or
2 years.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you in China at any time that he was there?
Mr. Silverman. I have never been in China.
Mr. Tavenner. What can you tell us about his work in connection
with the Chinese Stabilization Fund?
Mr. Silverman. Very little.
Mr. Tavenner. Tell us what you know about it.
Mr. Silverman. I know the general objectives, I think I remember
the general objectives, of that joint commission. The basic purpose
was to prevent accelerated inflation in China. I remember it was a
joint commission, and I believe it had representation from the United
States and from Great Britain and from China itself, and that its
general objective was the prevention of inflation, or accelerated in-
flation, because my recollection is there had been a great deal of
inflation there already.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever do any work in connection with that
stabilization fund project?
Mr. Silverman. To my recollection, never.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Solomon Adler?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question in the exercise of
my privilege under the fifth amendment.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2917
Mr. Tavenner. Was Solomon Adler associated with Mr. Fox in
connection with his duties in the administration of that fund?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds, that what I would say might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Nixon. Who is Solomon Adler?
Mr. Tavenner. The committee took the testimony of Solomon
Adler here some months ago, and he was mentioned in the testimony
of Elizabeth Bentley as a person serving in China with that fund. She
did not have personal knowledge of it, but she knew of certain activities
on his part which she testified to.
Mr. Nixon. Is he no longer with the Government?
Mr. Tavenner. He resigned 2 days after he appeared before his
committee as a witness.
Mr. Adler, in testifying before this committee on April 25, 1950, was
asked the question of who introduced him to Abraham George Silver-
man, and he answered, "I don't recall." The question was then asked
him, "You met him here in Washington?" and he answered, "Yes."
Did you meet Mr. Adler here in Washington?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds
that what I would say might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Chao' Ting Chi was connected with the work of
that Commission and was in the United States for some period of time.
Were you acquainted with him?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question in the exercise of
my constitutional privilege under the fifth amendment, since what I
would say might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what Chao' Ting Chi's present posi-
tion is with the Communist Government of China?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Walter. Do I understand, Mr. Counsel, that this man Chi
was a member of the Chinese Stabilization Commission and he now
occupies a position with the Chinese Communist Government?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir, and I am trying to find the position which
he now holds. The hearing in the Adler testimony, I am fairly certain,
discloses that this individual was working in close connection with the
administration of this organization laiown as the Chinese Stabilization
Fund, and he is now the head of monetary affairs in the new Chinese
Communist Government.
You are unwilling to enlighten the committee on the activities of
any of those individuals?
Mr. Silverman. It doesn't run in terms of imwillingness to enlighten
the committee ; it runs in terms of my refusal to answer questions that
in my judgment might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Walter. Were you in a position at any time to prevent the
delivery of airplanes to the Chinese Nationalist Government?
Mr. Silverman. No. That is inconceivable. I was never in a
position to prevent the delivery of aircraft to anybody. Mine was a
liighly technical job of statistics and analysis in relation to scheduhng.
I was a scheduling expert.
Mr. Walter. And did that scheduling include the delivery of air-
planes to any government other than the United States Government?
Mr. Silverman. Not directly.
2918 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Walter. But it did indirectly, in that the lend-lease program
was tied in with that, wasn't it?
Mr. Silverman. Somebody was making decisions as to where the
airplanes were going, which had nothing to do with the air service
command. It was absolutely beyond my purview. Mine was a
highly technical statistical and planning job.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, to clarify the record, it appears
from the testimony of Mr. Adler that Chao' Ting Chi in 1941 was
secretary of the Stabilization Board of China.
Did you at any time deliver any material or information to Mr.
William Ludwig tJllmann relating to aircraft materials?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question in the exercise
of my privilege under the fifth amendment, since what I would say
might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Walter. Do you loiow that the testimony you give here is
privileged and cannot be used against you in any trial of any sort?
Mr. Silverman. I have never considered the proposition. I am
not a lawyer.
Mr. Walter. Suppose I tell you that under the law testimony
given here cannot be used against you in any criminal case, provided,
of course, it is not perjured testimony. Suppose I told you that was
the law; would you then hesitate to assist us in our inquiry?
Mr. Silverman. I would have to seek the advice of counsel.
Mr. Walter. If he told you that that was not the law, then yon
had better get new counsel.
Mr. Wood. Any further questions?
Mr. Tavenner" Do you know a Mr. Joseph B. Gregg?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question in the exercise of
my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know his wife, Ruth Gregg?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds
that what I would say might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Maurice Halperin?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. That is spelled H-a-1-p-e-r-i-n.
Mr. Silverman. I never heard of the person.
Mr. Wood. You have never heard of him?
Mr. Silverman. It may have arisen in connection with these
various hearings, but to the best of my recollection I never heard of
the person. So I simply have a blank with respect to him.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Whittaker Chambers at any time come to
you and seek your assistance in securing Federal employment, in
which instance you referred him to Irving Kaplan?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question in the exercise
of my privilege under the fifth amendment, since any answer I would
give might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. You do know Whittaker Chambers, do you not?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Do 3'OU know Irving Kaplan?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds-.
that what I would say might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with William H. Taylor?
COMMUNISM DSr THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2919
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know David Niven Wliceler?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know George Shaw Wheeler?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Allan Rosenberg?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Norman Bursler?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Frank Coe, C-o-e?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds
that what I would say might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a meeting at which Veet
Bassie, V-e-e-t B-a-s-s-i-e, Irving Kaplan, or Harry Magdoff,
M-a-g-d-o-f-f- was present?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. No questions.
Mr. Wood. Mr. McSweeney,
Mr. McSweeney. No.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Nixon.
Mr. Nixon. Do you recall an episode about a rug in 1936?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question in the exercise of
my constitutional privilege under the fifth amendment, since what
I would say might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Nixon. Do you still have the rug?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Nixon. Did you give information to the grand jury concern-
ing the rug?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the ground
that what transpired before the grand jury is confidential.
Mr. Nixon. Did you give any information to anyone concerning
the rug?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question on the ground
that what I would say might tend to incriminate me.
Mr. Nixon. You recall reading about the testimony of Lee Press-
man before this committee on Monday?
Mr. Silverman. Do I recall reading it?
Mr. Nixon. Did you read about it in the paper?
Mr. Silverman. Yes.
Mr. Nixon. You may recall most of the stories concerning Mr.
Pressman's appearance pointed out that he felt that in the light of
the developments in Korea he could no longer take refuge behind the
fifth amendment and other constitutional guaranties, and that he
should cooperate with the committee and with the country in giving
67052—50 — pt. 2 6
2920 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERJSTMENT
what information he could that would be of assistance. I would like
to ask you, do you know Mr. Pressman?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question in the exercise
of my constitutional privilege under the fifth amendment to protect
myself against possible self-incrimination.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I omitted to ask a question I
intended to ask. I should like to ask it when Mr. Nixon is through,
Mr. Nixon. Are you a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question in the exercise of
my privilege under the fifth amendment against possible self-incrimi-
nation, and under the first amendment.
Mr. Nixon. You said a moment ago, or at least left the implica-
tion, that you owed your complete loyalty to the United States of
America.
Mr. Silverman. Yes. I didn't leave it open to implication.
Mr. Nixon. I mean, you left the implication with the committee
that that was your position. You have no qualifications on that?
Mr. Silverman. I have no qualifications on that.
Mr. Nixon. You also stated you would state unqualifiedly that you
had never given any classified information to any unauthorized person.
Mr. Silverman. I never knowingly gave any classified information
to any unauthorized person.
Mr. Nixon. And yet, when we asked if you gave any information
to a specific person, you refused to answer on the ground of possible
self-incrimination.
Mr. Silverman. Because the question assumed I knew a person
whom I refused to admit I knew. I have been advised that is the
proper legal position to take. I am no expert in these matters.
Mr. Nixon. You realize, of course, that by answering in that way,
by refusing to answer specific questions as to whether you had given
information to unauthorized persons, that you yourself have created
the impression about which you are complaining this morning: The
impression that there might be a question about your loyalty. You
are doing it yourself. If you were to answer those questions and say
"No", it could not incriminate you or anybody else, and you know
that, don't you? If you didn't give anything to Mr. Silvermaster,
why don't you say so?
Mr. Silverman. You know the legal implications better than I do.
All I can do is confer with my counsel.
Mr. Nixon. You can confer with your counsel; but, if you did not
engage in any activities that were unauthorized, the way to clear your-
self and help this committee is to say, "No; I didn't give any informa-
tion to Silvermaster, to Bentley, or to anybody else."
All I can say here — and I speak for myself— is that you yourself are
bringing down this public disapproval of yourself, and nobody else.
You can't blame this committee, or the FBI, or hysteria, as you did
before, or anything else, because you have in your hands, just as
Mr. Pressman had it in his hands, the opportunity to clear the record.
And, aS far as I am concerned, you or any other person who has come
to this country and become a citizen, or who was born here, for that
matter, and who refuses to answer simple questions that involve the
very security of this country, certainly United States citizenship
should be withdrawn from such individuals.
Mr. Silverman. I never said that I blamed anybody. I did point
to the facts of life, as to what happened.
COMMUNISM m THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2921
Mr. Nixon. And that is unfortunate if you are, as you claim, an
innocent man. But, as Mr. McSweeney pointed out a while ago, you
have the power in your hands to clear the record. Mr. Pressman came
and attempted to give some information — at least he gave some
information — and we hope to get more in the future; and it seems to
me that, either to this committee or to the FBI or some other agency
of the Government, you should do likewise; and, until you do, you
yourself are bringing down this public disapproval.
Under those circumstances, won't you cooperate with the com-
mittee, particularly in view of the fact we are now involved in a war
with the Communists in Korea? Particularly in view of that fact,
won't you give us that information, and you will be helping yourself
and your country? Let us forget the legal aspect and get down to the
facts. As Mr. Walter said, nothing you say here can be used against
you in a criminal action.
Mr. Silverman. I am not refusing to cooperate with the committee.
Mr. Nixon. You are refusing to cooperate with the committee,
and you loiow very well you are. Would you be willing to go and
give this information to the FBI in complete secrecy?
Mr. Silverman. What information?
Mr. Nixon. Answer these questions that we have asked you.
Will you do that?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Nixon. Let the record show that on this question the witness
is consulting with counsel. We want to know if it is counsel's answer
or the witness'.
Mr. Jaffe. Is he entitled to consult with me?
Mr. Nixon. Yes, but I want the record to show he is consulting
with counsel on this question.
Mr. Wood. I assume the record shows that in every instance.
Mr. Silverman. If the FBI comes along, I will make my decision
at that particular point.
Mr. Nixon. You mean, if the FBI asks you, you will then make the
decision as to whether you will cooperate with them?
Mr. Silverman. I will meet that question when it comes up. I am
not consulting my counsel as to any answers. I am trying to co-
operate to the fullest possible extent, and at the same time trying to
protect myself from possible self-incrimination. I am not a lawyer.
I don't know about these things.
Mr. Nixon. I have the highest regard for your mental ability,
aside from the fact of whether you are a lawyer or not. The point I
want to make is this: If, as you say — and we would like to believe
that, certainly, in view of the very important positions you have held
with the Government — if, as you say, the charges Mr. Chambers made
against you are false, and the charges Miss Bentley made are false,
if you say "No" when we ask about the specific charges, you can't
possibly incriminate yourself. A "Yes" answer is the only one that is
going to incriminate you.
I ask you again: Have you ever given any information to Mr.
Silvermaster?
Mr. Silverman. I refuse to answer that question in the exercise of
my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Nixon. That is all.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Velde.
2922 COMMUNISM EST THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Velde. No questions.
Mr. Wood. I understood awhile ago, Mr. Witness, that you stated
your reason for decHning to answer the question as to whether you
had deUvered material to an unauthorized person was that the
question carried an implication you knew such person, whom you had
not admitted you knew. Is that right?
Mr. Silverman. Yes.
Mr. Wood. As I understood, you did admit on the stand you knew
Mr. Ullmann?
Mr. Silverman. It is a matter of record he worked in the same
division with me.
Mr. Wood. You recall you did say you knew him?
Mr. Silverman. Yes.
Mr. Wood. Following that answer, you declined to state whether
you delivered any classified material to him.
Mr. Silverman. That is right.
Mr. Wood. So that your reason for declining to answer does not
apply to that instance; does it?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Silverman. As I said, it is a matter of record that he worked
in the same division I was in.
Mr. Wood. But 3^ou declined to answer whether or not you fur-
nished him with classified information?
Mr. Silverman. That is right.
Mr. Wood. Your reason for declining to answer that you now
offer does not apply in that instance; does it?
Mr. Silverman. That is correct. There isn't that degree of logic
in life.
Mr. Wood. I will ask you again whether you ever furnished to Mr.
Ullmann at any time any classified information?
Mr. Silverman. I will have to refuse to answer that on the same
grounds.
Mr. Wood. By the way, what was your rate of pay while you were
in the Government service?
Mr. Silverman. I thinly the last pay I received was $9,800. Maybe
it was $10,000.
Mr. Wood. You were receiving the top salary permissible under
the law; were you not?
Mr. Silverman. I believe there were others receiving more than I
was. It was one of the top salaries at that time in my professional
grade, my professional work. I was receiving substantially more on
the job that I resigned yesterday, and I received twice as much many
times outside the Government.
Mr. Wood. That is all. Witness excused.
The committee will stand at recess until 10:30 tomorrow morning.
(Thereupon, at 12:45 p. m., on Thursday, August 31, 1950, a recess
was taken until Friday, September 1, 1950, at 10:30 a. m.)
HEAEINGS EEGARDING COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED
STATES GOVERNMENT-PAET 2
FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 1, 1950
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington, D. C.
PUBLIC HEARING
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to adjournment, at 10:15 a. m. in room 226, Old House
OflEice Building, Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives John S. Wood
(chairman), Francis E. Walter, John McSweeney (arriving as indi-
cated), Richard M. Nixon (arriving as indicated), and Harold H.
Velde (arriving as indicated).
Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., coimsel; Louis J.
Russell, senior investigator; Donald T. Appell, Courtney Owens, and
Alvin W. Stokes, investigators; and A. S. Poore, editor.
Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order, please.
(The first witness on this day, Joshua Daniel Wliite, commonly
known as "Josh" White, is not related to the following proceedings
and is printed separately under title ''Hearings Regarding Communist
Infiltration of Minority Groups— Part 3.")
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Nathan Witt.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Witt, will you stand and be sworn, please.
You solemnly swear the evidence you give this subcommittee shall
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Witt. I do.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Witt, as a witness before this committee, have you
any objection to the photographers taking your picture?
Mr. Witt. No; I don't.
Mr. Wood. Have a seat.
I will ask you gentlemen to take the pictures with as little disturb-
ance as possible.
Before we proceed, let the record disclose that for the purpose of
this hearing a subcommittee has been set up by the chairman, con-
sisting of Messrs. Walter, Velde, and Wood, and they are all present.
TESTIMONY OF NATHAN WITT, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,
HAROLD I. CAMMER
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please?
Mr. Witt. Nathan Witt.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your present address?
2923
2924 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Witt. 160 West Seventy-seventh Street, New York 24.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented here by counsel?
Mr. Witt. I am.
Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record.
Mr. Cammer. Harold I. Cammer, C-a-m-m-e-r, 9 East Fortieth
Street, New York 16, N. Y.
Mr. Wood. Mr. Witt, in the course of your examination here, you
are at liberty at any time you desire to confer with your counsel.
Mr. Witt. I understand.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Witt, you are appearing here this morning
pursuant to a subpena which was accepted in your behalf by your
counsel, Mr. Cammer; is that correct?
Mr. Witt. That is correct.
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born?
Mr. Witt. I was born in New York City in the year 1903.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you used any name other than the name you
have given us, Nathan Witt?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Witt. My family name when I was born was Witkowsky,
W-i-t-k-o-w-s-k-y. That name was changed when I was a minor,
I believe in the year 1919, by my father.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you used any name other than that name?
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Witt. Mr. Chairman, I have a prepared statement here which
I would like to read into the record before I answer this and subsequent
questions.
Mr. Wood. It isn't the policy of this committee to take the time
to read prepared statements. I understand your statement is quite
lengthy.
Mr. Witt. No; it is not, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps you are referring
to another statement. It is only one mimeographed sheet, double-
spaced.
Mr. Wood. Perhaps I have more than one copy, then.
(Hon. Richard M. Nixon entered hearing room.)
Mr. Wood. Proceed.
Mr. Witt. My statement is as follows:
The witness who appeared before you the other day added nothing
to what a similar witness told you in 1948 on the basis of which you
called me then.
(Hon. John McSweeney entered hearing room.)
Mr. Witt (continuing reading). Consequently, there is no reason
to change the position I asserted then that the constitutional privilege
against self-incrimination is available to me against questions dealing
with my political beliefs and associations. I might also add that
recent court decisions have confirmed the correctness of my position.
Other recent events have also fortified me in my opinion of this
committee and its relationship to other developments in American
life. Atom-bomb diplomacy and aggression have inev^itably re-
flected themselves in domestic affairs. With it goes the increasing
and frightening power of the monopolists over American life. With
it goes the heightened attacks on the Negro people and the failure to
wipe out the cancer of insult and discrimination visited on 15,000,000
of my fellow Americans. With it goes the acceptance and even
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATE'S GOVERNMENT 2925
extension of Taft-Hartley and the weakening of the labor movement.
With it goes red-baiting as the ideological poison gas directed toward
compelling the American people to accept fascism and war. With
all of this goes the increasing corruption, the increasing degradation
of some intellectuals, the increasing demoralization of American life.
In all of this, this committee has played an important role.
Only the reversal of the policies which began with the dropping of
the atom bomb will save our social system from complete decay and
restore American prestige and dignity in the eyes of humanity.
Air. Wood. Now will the reporter repeat the question asked by
counsel before the witness read his statement.
(The question referred to was read by the reporter, as follows:
"Have you used any name other than that name?")
Mr. Witt. Mr. Chairman, I object to the question on the ground
that it violates my rights under the first amendment.
Mr. Wood. The committee, of course, cannot be concerned with
a witness' objection. Will you answer the question, or do you decline
to answer it?
Mr. Witt. I must respectfully decline to answer the question on
the ground that the answer iriight incriminate me.
Mr. Wood. Mr. W'itt, I know of no law that penalizes a man for
using a different name than his own, unless he does it with some
purpose of violating the law.
Air. Witt. I think you are mistaken in respect to some State
statutes, but the claim I am making is under the self-incrimination
provision of the fifth amendment. As I understand the question,
the answer would tend to incriminate me, and, as I understand my
privilege under the fifth amendment, I have the right to decline to
answer the question if that is my opinion.
Air. Wood. Do you so decline?
Air. Witt. I do so decline.
Air. Wood. Proceed.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you outline to the committee briefly your
educational background?
Air. Witt. I was educated in the public schools of the city of New
York. I received my bachelor degree from the Washington Square
College of New York University in 1927. I received my law degree
from Harvard Law School in 1932.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your emplo^nnent record since
you received vour law degree from Harvard?
Air. Witt. During the year 1932 to the year 1933 I was employed
in the office of William J. Donovan. In the summer of 1933 I entered
the employ of the United States Government in the Agricultural
Adjustment Administration of the Department of Agriculture. In
February 1934 I transferred to the old National Labor Relations
Board set up under Public Resolution 44 passed pursuant to the
National Industrial Recovery Act.
Air. Tavenner. What was that date?
Air. Witt. The date I made the transfer to the old National Labor
Relations Board I believe was February 1934. I remained on the
legal staff of that Board until the Wagner Act was passed and became
effective on July 5, 1935, and at that time I was transferred, together
with the other employees of the old Board, to the staff of the new
Board.
2926 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
With that transfer I became a member of the legal staff of the
present National Labor Relations Board, set up under the Wagner
Act, and remained on the legal staff as attorney until December 1935,
when I was appointed assistant general counsel of the Board. I re-
mained such until November 1937, when I was appointed secretary of
the Board, and remained such until November 1940, when I resigned
from the Board. Since then I have been in private practice in the
city of New York.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you make application for the position which
you accepted in 1933 with the AAA?
Mr. Witt. I have no independent recollection, but I assume that
I must have.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall by whom you were recommended
for that position?
Mr. Witt. Yes; I do. I was recommended by Mr. Lee Pressman.
Mr. Tavenner. What position did he occupy at that time in the
AAA?
Mr. Witt. I believe at the time I joined the legal staff of triple A,
Mr. Pressman was already assistant general counsel, although he may
not have become assistant general counsel until a later date.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you finally advance to the position of
assistant general counsel?
Mr. Witt. I don't recall that I had that title. I had the title of
chief of some section. I did receive a promotion before I left triple
A, but I don't believe the title of assistant general counsel was be-
stowed upon me before I left.
Mr. Tavenner. Who were the other persons who served as assist-
ant general counsel during the time you were employed there?
Mr. Witt. I have a recollection of only one other assistant general
counsel, although I may be wrong about this. I may be wi'ong in two
respects, first, in naming the person I am about to name as assistant
general counsel; and second, in the respect that there may have been
still another assistant general counsel in addition to Mr. Pressman and
the one I am about to name. The one I believe was assistant general
counsel in addition to Mr. Pressman was Mr. Alger Hiss.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Abt an employee in that Department?
(At this point, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Witt. Yes; he was.
Mr. Tavenner. What position did he occupy?
Mr. Witt. I don't recall whether he had a title. He was on the
legal staff. He may have had some title similar to the one I believe
I had before I left triple A, chief of some section. I doubt he was
an assistant general counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. How closely associated were you with Mr. Press-
man while you were employed in the AAA?
Mr. Witt. The entire legal staff worked very closely together in
Triple A.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you occupy an office with him?
(At this point, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr, Witt. Well, I didn't occupy an office with him if you mean by
that whether I occupied the same room with him. During part of
the period that I recall I occupied an office next to his. That was
during the latter part of my employment with triple A. During the
first part of my employment with triple A my office was some distance
COMMUNISM m THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2927
from him. When I first came to triple A our offices were located in
the main Agricultural Department Building, the old building, in which
the Secretary was housed. During the period of my employment
this enormous building called the South Building was completed, and
we moved to that building.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Air, Abt employed there when you arrived,
or after your arrival?
Mr. Witt. I think after my arrival. I arrived in July or August
1933, and I think Mr. Abt came in the fall.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Air. Abt prior to your employ-
ment there?
Mr. Witt. I did not.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how he was employed? By that I
mean, who recommended him for employment?
Mr. Witt. I wouldn't be sure, but, if you want my best recollec-
tion, he was endorsed by the general counsel, Jerome N. Frank, now
judge of the United States Circuit Court of Appeals for the Second
Circuit. But, as I say, I am not too sure of those facts.
Mr. Tavenner. How long had you known Mr. Pressman before he
recommended you for the position to which you were appointed?
Air. Witt. I wouldn't be too sure of that. I got to know Mr.
Pressman fairly well during the year I was in New York after I left
law school, in 1932 or 1933.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you in school with him at Harvard?
Mr. Witt. No. He was in the class of 1929 and I was in the class
of 1932. I graduated from college in 1927, but I spent 2 years work-
ing, and that is why I didn't enter law school until 1929, and I got
m}^ degree in 1932.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you in the class with Alger Hiss at Harvard?
Mr. Witt. No; because I believe Mr. Alger Hiss was also in the
class of 1929, which meant both he and Mr. Pressman would have
finished law school in June 1929, and I entered in September 1929.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Charles Kramer also employed in the
AAA while you were employed there?
Air. Witt. He wae.
Mr. Tavenner. In what capacity?
Mr. Witt. He was employed in what was known as the Consumers
Counsel Section, a section of triple A.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he employed before your arrival or after
your arrival?
Mr. Witt. After my arrival.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have anything to do with the employ-
ment of either Mr. Abt or Mr. Kramer?
Mr. Witt. I answered the question as to Mr. Abt, I believe.
Air. Tavenner. I don't believe you did, directly.
Mr. Witt. I said I had nothing to do with it.
Mr. Tavenner. I didn't understand you to say that.
Mr. Witt. I had nothing to do with the employment of Mr. Abt.
As to Air. Ivramer, I believe I did have something to do with it,
although I wouldn't be too sure of that. I had known Mr. Kramer a
long time before that, and, if the record shows I recommended him,
no doubt that is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. What were the circumstances under which you
became acquainted with Air. Kramer?
2928 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Witt. He went to school with me in New York City. We
went to high school together in New York City. I also lost some
time in high school by reason of working, and when I returned Mr.
Kj-amer was a classmate of mine. I believe that was in 1921.
Mr. Tavenner. You left your employment with the AAA in 1934,
as I understood?
Mr. Witt. That is correct. My recollection is it was the month
of February 1934.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Pressman and Mr. Abt and Mr. Kramer
leave their employment with the AAA at the same time that you did?
Mr. Witt. Not that I recollect. I think I left before any of those
you named left the triple A.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Pressman testified before this committee a few
days ago that Mr. Wallace directed the removal of Mr. Frank and a
number of his assistants. Were you one of those assistants?
Mr. Witt. No; I was not. I left before that happened. I left
voluntarily.
Mr. Tavenner, What were the circumstances under which you
took employment with the National Labor Relations Board under
the old Resolution 44?
Mr. Witt. I am not sure I understand what you mean. "Circum-
stances" is a very broad word, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes; it is.
Mr. Witt. If you will be more specific.
Mr. Tavenner. How did you happen to be employed by that
agency?
Mr. Witt. You mean how I made the decision to leave triple A
and go to the old National Labor Relations Board?
Mr. Tavenner. If you made that decision.
Mr. Witt. I made that decision because I had intended to go into
the field of labor law. I studied labor law at Harvard Law School,
and looked forward to making my living in labor law. I don't know
of any effort I made to get in the original Labor Board, which was the
National Labor Board. I think I was interested in getting there,
but I didn't get it, but in February 1934 I did have the opportunity
to go with the old National Labor Relations Board, and I took the
opportunity because I wanted to get into that field.
Mr. Tavenner. What were the circumstances under which that
opportunity was made available to you?
Mr. Witt. I am sorry. You will have to be more specific.
Mr. Tavenner. You made mention of the fact you had the oppor-
tunity to go with the National Labor Relations Board. Wliat do
you mean by the opportunity to take employment with that Board?
Mr. Witt. Well, my best recollection is that I heard the way one
hears things around Washington, that there was a vacancy on the
legal staff of that Board. I talked to some people about it, as a result
of which I was introduced to the members of the Board, and I had an
interview with them and they decided to give me employment with
that Board. The members of the Board at that time were: Lloyd
Garrison, who I believe was chairman; Harold A. Miller, who died
recently; and Edwin S. Smith.
Mr. Tavenner. After you resigned in 1940, I believe you stated
you returned to the private practice of law?
Mr. Witt. That is correct.
COMMUNISM m THE UNITED STATE'S GOVERNMENT 2929
Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Lee Pressman one of your law partners?
Mr. Witt. He was not.
Mr. Tavenner. He was not. Was he associated in the same firm
with you?
(At this point, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Witt. Well, let me give you this answer to that question, if I
understand what you are after. Mr. Pressman had been associated
with this same firm before I entered it, under some other name. This
firm, before I entered it, had gone through several changes. I believe,
that Mr. Pressman had severed his association with that firm in 1936,
but I wouldn't be too sure. In any event, when I entered the firm,
or just before I entered the firm, there were four partners, and Mr.
Pressman was not one of them Mr. Pressman's name was still used,
I recall that, just before I entered the firm. When I entered the firm,
Mr. Pressman's name was dropped from the firm, and one of the four
other partners resigned at that time, and the firm name became
Liebman, Leider & Witt in January 1941.
Mr. Cammer. Do you mind if I refresh his recollection?
(At this point, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr, Witt. Mr. Cammer reminds me that Mr. Pressman continued
to have some financial interest in the firm of Liebman, Leider &
Witt, because of some matters that had been initiated in the old firm
and were still pending.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Pressman return to that firm and become
actively engaged in the practice of law while you were there?
Mr. Witt. Yes.
Mr, Tavenner. Wlien did he return?
Mr. Witt. In March or April 1948, I beheve.
Mr. Cammer. No; February.
Mr. Witt. May I correct that? Mr. Cammer corrects me on that
point. He thinks the date is February 1948 instead of March or April.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did he remain with the firm?
Mr. Witt. Until the end of October 1949.
(Hon. John S. Wood left the hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Witt, Mr. Lee Pressman has testified before
this committee that a person by the name of Harold Ware recruited
him into the Communist Party here in the District of Columbia in the
year 1933, and that he became a member of a Communist Party cell,
along with you, John Abt, and Charles Kramer. Did you unite with
the Communist Party cell to which I have just referred?
Mr. Witt. Who is acting chairman of the committee in Mr. Wood's
absence?
Mr. Walter. I am.
Mr. Witt. Mr. Walter, I object to that question on the ground it
violates my rights, as I conceive them, under the fifth amendment to
the Constitution, but as I understand the practice of the committee is
not to pass on objections, I will pass that one.
Mr. Walter. Your answer, then, is that you refuse to answer on the
ground you believe your answer might tend to incriminate you?
Mr. Witt. Yes; not under the first amendment, but under the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Harold Ware employed in the AAA to your
knowledge?
(At this point, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
2930 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Witt. He was not, to my knowledge.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Harold Ware have anything to do with your
appointment with the AAA?
(At this point, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Witt. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman. I must delcine to answer
that question on the same grounds I have already stated, specifically,
on the ground that the answer to the question might tend to incrimi-
nate me, and I therefore claim my privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time attend a Communist Party
meeting at which Mr. Pressman, Mr. Kramer, Mr. Abt, Harold Ware,
and J. Peters, otherwise known as Alexander Stevens, or any of them,
were present?
Mr. Witt. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman. I must decline to answer
that question on the ground that the answer might tend to incriminate
me.
(At this point, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Witt. In order to save time, Mr. Chairman, instead of spelling
out my privilege, may I say "For the same reason"?
Mr. Walter. Yes, and by that you mean
Mr. Witt. My privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Walter. First and fifth amendments?
Mr. Witt. Not the first; the fifth.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now or have you ever been a member of
the Communist Party?
Mr. Witt. I am sorry, I must decline to answer that question for
the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you not on one occasion appear before a
committee of the Congress and deny that you were then or at any
time had been a member of the Communist Party?
(At this point, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Witt. I am sorry, I must refuse to answer that question on
the same ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you not write a letter to the chairman of a
congressional committee which was investigating the National Labor
Relations Board, in which you stated that you denied membership
in the Communist Party or affiliation with the Communist Party?
Mr. Witt. I am sorry. I must refuse to answer that question on
the same ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you not also advise the chairman of that
congressional committee in 1940 that you would be willing to appear
before the committee and testify relating to that matter?
Mr. Witt. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, but I must decline to answer
that question on the same ground.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you volume 4 of the record of the proceed-
ings of the House Committee investigating the Labor Board and
Wagner Act, and call your attention, on page 437, to National Labor
Relations Board exhibit 492-D, purporting to be a letter from you to
Hon. Howard W. Smith, chairman, under date October 16, 1940.
I will ask you to examine that letter and state whether or not you
wrote it and mailed it to the chau-man or delivered it to him, and
whether or not you did not request in that letter that it be made a
part of the record of proceedings of that committee?
(At this point, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2931
Mr. Witt. I am sorry, Mr. Chairmati. I must decline to answer
that question on the same ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, for the benefit of the record I
desire to incorporate this exhibit into the record of these proceedings,
and to read it.
Mr. Walter. Have you identified the handwriting?
Mr. Tavenner. It is an official exhibit before a committee of
Congress.
Mr. Walter. Very well. Proceed.
Mr. Tavenner. That letter reads as follows:
NLRB Exhibit 492-D
October 16, 1940.
Hon. Howard W. Smith,
Chairman, Special Committee to Investigate the National Labor Relations Board,
House Office Building, Washington, D. C.
Dear Sir: On September 27, 1940, Congressman Frank B. Keefe, of Wisconsin
testified before your committee that in the course of several conversations with
Dr. David J. Saposs and Mr. George W. Brooks, of the Board's Technical Service
Division, they had stated to him that I "hewed to the Communist Party line."
On October 3, 1940, one Ralph Emerson, after testifying that he had been present
at one of the meetings between Congressman Keefe and Mr. Brooks, corroborated
Congressman Keefe's testimony. In testifying before your committee on Septem-
ber 11, Dr. Saposs and Mr. Brooks had already denied making such statements.
Of course, the testimony in question is opinion and remote hearsay. .However,
I do wish to go on record that I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of
the Communist Party, a "Communist sympathizer" or one who "hews to the
Communist Party line."
I wish to comment on certain other matters developed in the course of Congress-
man Keefe's testimony:
(1) Congressman Keefe testified that the Dies committee listed my name as a
member of the American League for Peace and Democracy. It is true that I was
so listed. At the time the list was published, I publicly denied that I was a
member of the American League for Peace and Democracy. My denial was
published in the Washington Post and the New York Times for October 26, 1939,
in stories photostatic copies of which I attach hereto.
Efforts by chairman Madden and myself to discover through the Dies com-
mittee
The next word seems to be blanked out. I don't know if it is "how''
or what it is. So it reads without that word:
— (blank) my name came" to appear on the list were fruitless. I now reiterate
my denial that I was at any time a member of the American League for Peace and
Democracy.
(2) -Congressman Keefe testified that in his conversation with Mr. Brooks,
Mr. Brooks, "in a rather nebulous manner, said something about a meeting"
I was supposed to have had in a Washington apartment with Messrs. Browder,
Amter, and Bridges. Congressman Keefe himself testified that he paid no
attention to the story because it was based on vague rumor. I deny that any
such meeting took place.
(3) While Congressman Keefe was testifying Mr. Shaughnessy of the com-
mittee's staff, put in evidence a copy of the column. The Capital Parade, from the
Washington Star for October 19, 1939, and copies of my subsequent correspondence
with Robert Kintner, one of the authors of the column, relative to the statement in
the column that I was "an active opponent" of Judge Pecora and Mr. Jerome
Frank "when they sought to have the Lawyers' Guild condemn Communist as
well as Fascist dictatorship." I am a member of the National Lawyers' Guild.
However, I wish to reiterate what I said in my correspondence with Mr. Kintner —
that the statement in his column is utterly without foundation.
I hereby request that this letter be printed in the proceedings of your com-
mittee. I am also willing to appear before your committee to testify concerning
these matters.
Very truly yours,
Nathan Witt, Secretary.
2932 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Why aren't you willing to testify today concerning these matters,
Mr. Witt?
(At this point, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Witt. Mr. Chairman, I still refuse to answer the question on
the same ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the statement true on October 16, 1940,
"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Communist
Party, a 'Communist sympathizer' or one who 'hews to the Com-
munist Party line' " or any part of it?
Mr, Witt. Mr. Chairman, I must decline to answer the question
on the same ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at that time a member of the Lawyers'
Guild?
(At this point, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Witt. Yes, I was.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member?
Mr. Witt. I am.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you take any part in opposing Judge Pecora's
movement within that organization that it go on record in opposition
to the Communist Party as well as Fascist organizations?
Mr. Witt. Mr. Chairman, that question is particularly offensive as
I understand my rights under the first amendment, but nevertheless,
I must refuse to answer it pursuant to the rights I have under the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Judge Pecora did resign, did he not, from the
Lawyers' Guild, because of his failure to get an endorsement by the
Lawyers' Guild against the Communists as well as against Fascist
organizations?
Mr. Witt. I do have a recollection that Judge Pecora resigned, but
I have no independent recollection as to the grounds for his resignation.
(Hon. John McSweeney left the hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how Mr. Victor Perlo was employed
by the Government at the time you were employed at the AAA?
(At this point, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Witt. I don't.
(Hon. John McSweeney returned to the hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Victor Perlo?
Mr. Witt. I must decline to answer the question on the same
ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with his wife, Katherine Wills
Perlo?
Mr. Witt. I must decline to answer that question on the same
ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting
with Alger Hiss?
Mr. Witt. I must decline to answer that question on the same
ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Nathan Perlo?
Mr. Witt. I don't believe I ever heard that name.
Mr. Tavenner, Were you associated at any time with Donald Hiss
in any capacity?
Mr. Witt. Donald Hiss was a classmate of mine at Harvard Law
School.
Mr. Tavenner. After arriving in Washington, did you renew your
acquaintanceship with him?
COMMUNISM m THE UNITED STATE'S GOVERNMENT 2933
Mr. Witt. I must refuse to answer that question on the same
ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever have occasion to make the acquain-
tance of Schlomer, S-c-h-1-o-m-e-r, Adler, better known as Sol or
Solomon Adler?
Mr. Witt. I must decline to answer that question on the same
ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Irma Ringe, R-i-n-g-e?
Mr. Witt. I don't believe I ever. heard that name. Will you give
me the first name, please?
Mr. Tavenner. I-r-m-a.
Mr. Witt. No. The answer still stands. I don't believe I ever
heard that name.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Abraham George
Silverman?
Mr. Witt. I must decline to answer that question on the same
ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Did your duties at any time require you to have
contact with the Treasury Department, in any of your positions with
the Government?
Mr. Witt. I believe they did, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. In the course of your performance of those duties,
did you meet Mr. Harry Dexter White?
Mr. Witt. I did not.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mr. Harry Dexter
White?
Mr. Witt. I must decline to answer that question on the same
ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Gerald Graze, G-r-a-z-e?
Mr. Witt. I don't believe I have ever heard that name, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Harold Glasser, or
associated with him in any of your work?
Mr. Witt. You have two questions there now.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you associated with Harold Glasser in any
work that you did for the Government?
(Hon. John McSweeney left hearing room.)
Mr. Witt. Not that I recall. I don't beheve I did. When I said
before I had some relations with Treasury when I was in the Govern-
ment, they were minimum relations. I don't remember specifically
what any of them were about. In any event, I had no relations with
Mr. Glasser in any official capacity or his official capacity.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with him in an unoffi-
cial manner?
Mr. Witt. I must decline to answer that question on the same
ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Wliittaker Chambers has testified before this
committee that there was set up in the District of Columbia a Com-
munist Party cell which he referred to as the Ware-Witt group, and
I believe the name Abt was in it also. You have refused to answer
the question about your membership, or alleged membership, in a
Communist Party cell, but I would like to ask you if you became
acquainted with \Vliittaker Chambers?
Mr. Witt. I must declme to answer that question on the same
ground.
2934 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with J. Peters, other-
wise known as Alexander Stevens?
Mr. Witt. I must decline to answer that question on the same
ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall that Harold Ware w^s killed in an
automobile accident?
Mr. Witt. I must decline to answer that question on the same
ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliile you were in the District of Columbia, did
you become a member of the Washington Book Shop?
Mr. Witt. I don't believe I did, although I may be mistaken about
it. If I did, I was a member for only a short period.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall having received publications or
communications from that organization?
Mr. Witt. I do not.
Mr. Tavenner. In the investigation which was conducted by the
House Committee Investigating the Labor Board and Wagner Act,
the record discloses a charge was made against you in connection with
the handling of certain business of the Board. I believe at the time
of this investigation you were secretary of the National Labor Rela-
tions Board, were you not?
Mr. Witt. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. And evidence was taken and the charge made of
improper handling of the affairs of the Board as a result of a conference
between you and Mr. Lee Pressman in relation to the Inland Steel
matter at Pittsburgh. Is that correct?
Mr. Witt. Yes, sir; such charges were made.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you and Mr. Lee Pressman influenced in. any
way by Communist Party activities in the conduct of the busmess
while you were on tjie Board?
(At this pomt, Mr. Witt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Witt. I must decline to answer that question on the same
ground.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Tavenner, we will have to recess at this pomt,
because that was the second bell a moment ago.
The committee will stand at recess until 2 o'clock.
(Thereupon, at 11:30 a. m., a recess was taken until 2 p. m. of the
same day.)
afternoon session
(The hearing was resumed at 2 p. m., Hon. Francis E. Walter
presiding. Representatives Francis E. Walter and Harold H. Velde
were present when the hearing began, and Representatives John S.
Wood and Richard M. NLxon arrived as hereinafter noted.)
Mr. Walter. The committee will come to order.
Mr. Tavenner, in the Times-Herald of Friday, September 1, there
appears a column by one Willard Edwards in which it is stated
that —
The hottest and most completely documented report ever compiled on American
Communists is blistering the hands of Democratic members of the House Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities
and so on.
Do you know of any report that has been delivered to any Demo-
cratic member of this committee, or that any member of this committee
knows about? •
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATE'S GOVERNMENT 2935
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I am confident that no report has
come through the hands of the staff to any committee member, nor
do they know anything about it.
(At this point, Mr. Russell and Mr. Tavenner confer.)
Mr. Tavenjster. I am just advised there is one Republican member
who knows about the report.
Mr. Velde. For the purpose of the record, I don't know who is
this Republican member who knows about the report, and since we
have gotten into the situation, let us go ahead and say who it is.
Mr. Walter. The article goes on to say:
The House committee issued a subpena for Budenz but deferred his appearance
imtil this week. It was reported that Representative Walter (Democrat) of
Pennsylvania, administration representative on the committee, had been informed
that Budenz could not furnish the documentation he had offered. When Budenz
met that challenge by producing his list of 380 names and supporting evidence,
his testimony was postponed.
What was the reason for his not testifying?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, we had subpenaed here for Monday
four members of the UE to testify. After those subpenas were issued
and too late to make any real adjustment in that it was decided to
use Mr. Pressman on Monday morning, so Mr. Pressman testified, and
his testimony, I believe, was not concluded until sometime around or
after 5 o'clock that afternoon.
Then we had sworn in those four UE members and asked them to
stay over until Tuesday, the following day. On Tuesday morning
we had slated Mr. Budenz to testify. At the same time, we were
advised that the Wood bill would reach the floor at 12 o'clock on that
day. So it was just more work than could be done in 1 day. We
took the testimony of one member of UE, and during the course of the
morning I explained to Mr. Budenz that we could not possibly reach
him until after we had disposed of that bill. We did not know
whether that debate would last more than 1 day or not. But I tried
to make an arrangement for a night session to hear Mr. Budenz that
night. Mr. Budenz explained that he was on a very strict diet, and
that the only place he could get anything to eat that would satisfy
that diet was to return to his home, and he did not want to be held
■over until the next day, and if I understood it correctly he preferred
not to come the next day.
Mr. Walter. So the reason Mr. Budenz did not testify was the
matter of accommodation to him?
Mr. Tavenner. Absolutely.
Mr. Velde. It wasn't possible for the committee to hear him
Tuesday at all, I believe.
Mr. Tavenner. It could not have been done unless we could have
had a night session.
Mr. Velde. And I believe he did leave with the staff' the list of
names referred to in the article?
Mr. Tavenner. While we were waiting to begin the hearing that
morning, a very short time before beginning the hearing, it was sug-
gested that for the convenience of the committee we start copying
the list of names and certain information we had, for the use of the
committee. That work was divided between about 12 of the steno-
graphic members of our staff to do, and I am advised now by Mr.
Russell that there is no member of the committee who has seen that
67052— 50— pt. 2 7
2936 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
list. As far as that is concerned, I have not seen it, but I know there
is such a list and that the committee staff was working on it, but that
we could not reach Mr. Budenz's testimony on Tuesday, and could
not reach it on Wednesday, if we were going to convenience him.
I might add it was not a report. I believe I used the word "report"
in referring to it. It was just a list.
Mr. Walter. All right. Proceed.
TESTIMONY OF NATHAN WITT— Resumed
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Witt, were you acquainted with Henry
Collins?
Mr. Witt. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman. I must decline to answer
that question on the ground that the answer might tend to incrimi-
nate me, and therefore the privilege set forth in the fifth amendment
is available to me.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever at the home of Mr. Henry Collins
at St. Matthew's Court Apartments in Washington?
Mr. Witt. I must decline to answer that question on the same
ground.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Witt, Mr. Whittaker Chambers has testified
before this committee that you and Mr. Pressman and others were
members of a Communist Party cell established here in Washington
in 1933, and Mr. Lee Pressman has testified that he was a member of
such a cell and that you were a member with him.
We have produced an official record of Congress, namely, the record
of the proceedings of the House Committee Investigating the Labor
Board and Wagner Act, which contains a letter from you in which
you denied being a member of the Communist Party at that time or
at any time prior thereto, and you have now refused to state whether
or not that statement was untrue.
Mr. Witt. That is right.
(Hon. Richard M. Nixon entered hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. In the light of this evidence that is before the
committee, do you still refuse to state whether or not yom- statement
made on October 16, 1940, was true?
Mr. Witt. I still do, sir, on the same gi"ound.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Witt, when did you leave the AAA?
Mr. Witt. My best recollection, Mr. Walter, is that I left it in
February 1934.
Mr. Walter. Did others leave that agency at the same time?
Air. WiTi. I am not sure I understand the question, Air. Walter.
Mr. Walter. You were then on the legal staff, were you not?
Mr. Witt. That is right.
Mr. Walter. Did Air. Pressman leave his employment at about
the same time?
Mr. Witt. No; that is not my recollection. If you are asking
whether other members of the legal staff left with me at that time,
my recollection is "No," that I was the only one who left. There
may have been some normal turn-overs, but I assume j^ou are not
talking about that.
Air. Walter. Any questions?
Mr. Nixon. In other words, you left voluntarily at that time?
COIVIMUNISM m THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2937
Mr. Witt. I did. I testified to that this morning, Air. Nixon.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Velde.
Mr. Velde. Did 3^011 leave after Mr. Pressman left, or before?
Air. Witt. My best recollection, Air. Velde, is that I left before
Mr. Pressman left.
Air. Velde. About how long; before?
Air. Witt. I would be guessing as to when he left. I would rather
not guess about it. The records of the triple A will show those dates.
Air. Velde. You still remained in Washington immediately after
3^ou left, for some time?
Air. Witt. Yes. I was with the Labor Board until 1940.
Air. Velde. Did \^ou have contact with Air. Pressman after you
left the Department of Agriculture?
Air. Witt. I am sorry, sir; I must decline to answer that question
on the ground I have already stated.
Air. Velde. You are willing to admit you know Air. Pressman and
that 3'ou associated with him in the Department of Agriculture, but
you refuse to testif3^ to 3"our acquaintanceship or relationship with
him after that?
Air. Witt. The records show I worked with Air. Pressman.
Air. Velde. But did vou have an3^ associations with him after you
left the Department of Agriculture?
Air. Witt. I must still refuse to answer that, sir, on the same ground.
Air. Velde. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. Air. Charles Kramer.
Air. Walter. Air. Kramer, will you raise your right hand? You
swear the testimon3" you are about to give will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 3^ou God?
Air. Kramer. I do.
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES KRAMER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, HAROLD I. CAMMER
Air. Tavenner. What is your full name, please?
Air. Kramer. Charles Kramer.
Air. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel?
Air. Kramer. I am.
Air. Tavenner. Will counsel identify himself for the record, please?
Air. Cammer. Harold I. Cammer, 9 East Fortieth Street, New York,
N. Y.
Air. Tavenner. Air. Kramer, what is your present address?
Air. Kramer. 2156 Cruger Avenue, New York City.
Air. Tavenner. You are appearing before the committee by virtue
of the subpena which I believe your counsel accepted service of for
your appearance here today?
Air. Kramer. Yes, sir.
Air. Tavenner. What is your present occupation?
Air. Kramer. I am a research economist.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you speak a little louder, please. Will you
furnish the commitee with a resume of your past employment?
Air. Kramer. In Government?
Air. Tavenner. Both in the Government and otherwise.
Air. Kramer. Upon completion of college I taught at New York
University for about 4 3'ears.
2938 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Tavenner. Will you speak a little louder, please? It is
difficult to hear you.
Mr. Kramer. I then worked for about 2 years for the Institute of
Social and Religious Research in New York, and then came to Wash-
ington and worked for the triple A for about a year and a half; then for
the National Youth Administration; then for the Senate Civil Liber-
ties Committee.
Mr. Walter. What was the name of that?
Mr. Kramer. The subcommittee of the Senate Committee on
Education and Labor called the Senate Civil Liberties Committee.
Then for a year or so I worked for Messrs. Jett Lauck and
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell those names, please?
Mr. Kramer. J-e-t-t L-a-u-c-k and Mr. Van A. Bittner,
B-i-t-t-n-e-r, of the United Mine Workers.
Mr. Tavenner. Van. A. Bittner, of the United Mine Workers?
Mr. Kramer. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the date of that employment?
Mr. Kramer. About 1937 and 1938. Then I worked for the
National Labor Relations Board for about 3 years; and then for the
Office of Price Administration for about a year and a half; and then for
a subcommittee of the United States Senate Military Affairs Com-
mittee; then for a subcommittee of the Senate Committee on Educa-
tion and Labor. Subsequently I did independent research for a
number of organizations and individuals and worked for the Pro-
gressive Party.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you begin work for the Progressive
Party?
Mr. Kramer. Sometime in 1948.
Mr. Tavenner. And how long did you continue in that employ-
ment?
Mr. Kramer. For almost 2 years.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you used any other name than that of
Kramer?
Mr. Kramer. My family name was Krevitsky. It was changed
legally here in the District of Columbia in 1935.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever used any name other than the name
of ICramer or Krevitsky?
(At this point, Mr. Kramer and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer on the grounds that it
might incriminate me, and I invoke the privilege against self-incrimina-
tion under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee the circumstances
under which you obtained employment with the AAA?
Mr. Kramer. I can't recall the exact circumstances. To the best
of my knowledge, I applied at several agencies in Washington at that
time. I talked to several people at the Agricultural Adjustment
Administration.
Mr. Tavenner. Who were those that you talked to at AAA?
Mr. Kramer. Mr. Witt, whom I had known, and several people to
whom he introduced me.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you talk to Mr. Lee Pressman at that time?
Mr. Kramer. I don't have any recollection of talking to him about
it.
Mr. Tavenner. Who were the others to whom you were introduced
by Mr. Witt?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED. STATE'S GOVERNMENT 2939
Mr. Kramer. I think that Mr. Witt may have introduced me to
the head of the Consumers Counsel at that time, Air. Frederick
Howe, H-o-vv-e.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall others?
Mr. Kramer. I don't recall at the moment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Air. Witt recommend you for a position there?
Mr. Kramer. I believe he did.
Mr. Tavenner. You had known Air. Witt for a considerable
period of time, I believe?
Mr. Kramer. That is right.
Air. Tavenner. You were in school together?
Mr. Kramer. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. Had you known Mr. Lee Pressman prior to your
employment with the AAA?
Mr. Kramer. I may have known him.
Mr. Tavenner. What were the circumstances under which you
became acquainted with him?
A^Ir. Kramer. I believe we had some friends in common at college.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you associated with him in any particular
enterprise prior to your being employed at the AAA?
Mr. Kramer. I don't think so.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Harold Ware?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds I have given before.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mr. John Jacob Abt,
and when did you make your acquaintanceship with him?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Walter. You have stated, each time that you have refused
to answer, "I must dechne." You don't have to decUne to answer
these questions. The Constitution of the United States gives you
the right to decline.
(At this point, Mr. Kramer and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Kramer. Mr. Chairman, I have a statement that I would like
to read to the committee at this point, if I may.
Mr. Walter. I don't think it will serve any purpose. We have
read it, and we will see that it is placed in the record at this point.
(The statement above referred to is as follows:)
Statement of Charles Kramer Before House Committee on Un-American
Activities, September 1, 1950
The Bill of Rights of our Constitution was adopted to protect the rights of
individuals against infringement by Government. As in my previous testimony,
I shall invoke the right against self-incrimination whenever I deem it applicable.
I do not propose to surrender this right because a committee of Congress, for the
first time in historv, threatens to breach this right by contempt citations. Today,
perhaps just as much as in 1789, it is important that people assert these basic
rights, no matter how the current hysteria and dementia would subvert them.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kramer, Miss Ehzabeth T. Bentley testified
before this committee in July 1948 that you were a member of an
organized group within the United States Government which had
furnished her with information which she conveyed to Jacob Golos, an
agent of the Soviet Union. Is that statement true?
Air. Kramer. I dechne to answer that question on the same
grounds.
2940 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Miss Elizabeth T.
Bentley?
Mr. Kramer. I dechne to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner, Mr. Whittaker Chambers testified that you were
one of a group of individuals, including Mr. Lee Pressman, Mr. Witt,
and others, who joined a Communist Party cell here in the District
of Columbia, and that he met on one occasion in the home of Henry
Collins, who was also a member of that group, in the St. Matthew's
Court Apartments, at which time you were present. Is that state-
ment true?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. The testimony of both Miss Elizabeth T. Bentley
and Whit taker Chambers has beer confirmed by the testimony of
Mr. Lee Pressman taken here this week that he was a member of such
a Communist Party cell here in the District of Columbia and that
you, while employed at the AAA with him, were a member of that
group. Is that statement true?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name
of J. Peters, sometimes referred to as Alexander Stevens?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever present on any occasion, at any
meeting, whether formal or informal, at which Mr. J. Peters was
present?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Cammer. May it be understood, Mr. Chairman, that he is stat-
ing his declination to answer in a short way with your permission?
Mr. Walter. Let the record show that every time the witness
states he refuses to answer "on the same ground" he is refusing to
answer on the ground that he believes his constitutional rights protect
him.
Mr. Cammer. Thank you.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kramer, were you at any time acquainted with
an individual known as David Wahl, W-a-h-1?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. In 1947 this committee held a series of hearings
regarding communism in the motion-picture industry. Will you
tell the committee whether you were in contact with David Wahl
during the course of those hearings?
Air. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. In the course of those hearings, commonly referred
to as the Hollywood hearings, were you in the city of Washington?
Mr. Kramer. I believe I was.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at that time, while the hearings were
being conducted or at any time from the beginning to the end of the
hearings, in contact with an individual by the name of Max Lowenthal,
in which the Hollywood hearings were discussed?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Alvah Bessie?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Ring Lardner, Jr.?
COMMUNISM m THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2941
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Dalton Trumbo?
Mr. Kramer. I dechne to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Herbert Biberman?
Mr. Kramer. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. John Howard Lawson?
iVlr. Kramer. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mr. Bartley Crum,
one of the persons who represented the individuals being investigated
by this committee during the course of the Hollywood hearings?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Ai-e you ^acquainted with Irving Kaplan?
Mr. Kramer. I decline *to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Cammer. May I consult with the witness a moment, please?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
(At this point, Mr. Kramer and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Tavenner. Have you any further statement that you desire
to make?
Mr. Kramer. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mr. James Roy
Newman?
Mr. Kramer. I am acquainted with a James Newman. I don't
know the middle name.
Mr. Tavenner. State the circumstances, if you will, under which
you knew him.
Mr. Kramer. If it is the same James Newman — I don't know if
the middle name is the same
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you meet him?
Mr. Kramer. I believe he was a reporter or writer for one of the
magazines
Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet him at the home of Monroe Stern?
Mr. Kramer. No, I did not. I was about to answer the question
when you engaged in a colloquy with your colleague. I believe I met
him because he was a reporter or writer for a magazine who came to me
while I was working for one of the Senate committees, while we were
preparing a hearing of some sort.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of the magazine?
Mr. Kramer. I don't recall at the moment.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it the New Republic?
Mr. Kramer. Yes, I think it was.
Mr. Tavenner. I am a little at a loss to understand, Mr. Kramer,
why you refused to admit that you Imew Mr. David Wahl. Your
testimony before this committee on July 2, 1948, shows that you were
asked the question by Mr. Russell, "Mr. Ki-amer, are you acquainted
with Mr. David Wahl?" and you answered, "Yes."
Were you acquainted with Mr. Wahl? Was that a truthful state-
ment you made when you testified here in 1948?
Mr. Kramer. Yes, it was a truthful statement.
Mr. Tavenner. Then it is true that you were acquainted with him?
Mr. Kramer. That is true.
2942 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNTVIENT
Mr. Tavenner. Did you confer with Mr, Walil in connection with
the defense, or rather the investigation that was being conducted by
this committee, known as the Hollywood hearings?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question, sir, on the
same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. How was Mr. Walil employed at that time?
Mr. Cammer. You haven't fixed the time, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. At the time of the Hollywood hearmgs in October
1947.
Mr. Kramer. I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where Mr. Wahl is now?
Mr. Kramer. I believe he is working in New York.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a series of meetings at the Shore-
ham Hotel during the period of the Hollywood hearings, at which
Mr. Wahl was present?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. It is also difficult to understand why you refuse to
answer the question of whether you have been acquainted with
IVIr. Max Lowenthal, in the light of your answer to the question when
you were before the committee in July 1948, put by Mr. RusseU, "Are
you acquaintsd with Mr. Max Lowenthal?", to which you replied,^
**Yes." Was that a truthful statement when you made it?
Mr. Kramer. It was.
Mr. Tavenner. Then you have been acquainted with Mr. Max
Lowenthal?
Mr. Kramer. I have been.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Max Lowenthal present at any con-
erence, or any one of a series of conferences, at the Shoreham Hotel
in October 1947, during the course of the Hollywood hearings, at
which you were present?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mr. Herbert Schimmel^
S-c-h-i-m-m-e-1?
Mr. Kramer. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall attending a meeting with Mr.
Herbert Schimmel where the United States policy on Greece was
discussed?
Mr. Kramer. I have no such recollection.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with his views with regard
to the United States policy toward Greece?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with the fact that the Com-
munist Party, through its members, endeavored to influence the
action of Congress in its legislation affecting Greece and Turkey?
Were you acquainted with Communist Party activities in that regard?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know that the activities of the Communist
Party in that regard extended even to solicitation of the rank and file
of labor unions to influence that legislation thi'ough their Congress-
men? Were you acquainted with that policy?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
COMMUiSriSM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2943
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with the late Harry Dexter
White?
Mr. Kramer. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was your association with him?
Mr. Kramer. I think that while I was on a Senate Committee
we had some dealings with Mr. White in connection with some testi-
mony'that was to be prepared for the Subcommittee on War Mobili-
zation.
Mr. Tavenner. That was in connection with your official duties
at that time?
Mr. Kramer. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any association with him outside
of your official duties as a Government employee?
Mr. Kramer. No.
Air. Tavenner. Do you know of your own knowledge of the
furnishing of information or material to Wliittaker Chambers by
either Air. Wliite or any other person?
Air. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Air. Tavenner. The question probably should be divided. Do
you know of your own knowledge of the furnishing of any material or
information by Mr. White to Whittaker Chambers or any other
person?
Mr. Kramer. I have no such knowledge.
Mr. Nixon. Do you know Air. Chambers?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of your own knowledge of the
furnishing of any material or information by any person other than
Mr. White to or for Mr. Chambers?
Air. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mr. Martin Popper?
Air. Kramer. Yes.
Air. Tavenner. What was your acquaintanceship with him?
Give us the circumstances.
Air. Kramer. Largely a social acquaintanceship.
Air. Tavenner. Over what period of time did you know him?
Mr. Kramer. Some 3 or 4 years.
Mr. Tavenner. And where was he living at that time?
Air. Kramer. Washington.
Air. Tavenner. Were you also acquainted with Victor Perlo?
Air. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Air. Tavenner. Did you at any time furnish any information of
any description to Elizabeth T. Bentley?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Air. Tavenner. Did you receive any information from Edward
Fitzgerald to be passed on to Elizabeth T. Bentley or any other
person?
Air. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Air. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Harold Glasser?
2944 comjviuxism: in the mnTED states government
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on tlie same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe you have indicated that you were
acquainted with Monroe Stern. Am I correct in that?
Mr. Kramer. You didn't ask me the direct question, but that is
correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you assist Monroe Stern in the preparation of
a book entitled "The Case Against Archbishop Stepinac"?
Mr. Kramer. I did not.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Louise Bransten, also
known as Louise Berman?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer the question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Solomon Adler?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. There has been testimony here by Mr. Lee Press-
man that Harold Ware was killed in an automobile accident, and
shortly thereafter a meeting was held at which Mr. Pressman was
present, you were present, and Mr. Abt was present. Do you recall
any such meeting?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the occasion of Mr. Ware's death?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Abraham George
Silverman?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Nathan Gregory
Silvermaster?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Richard Bransten?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with William Walter
Remington?
Mr. Kramer. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Maurice Halperin?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Jack Abbott, A-b-b-o-t-t?
Mr. Kramer. Yes; I believe I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state the circumstances under which you
were acquainted with him?
Mr. Kramer. I think he may have applied for a job with a committee
with which I was working, and I met him at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry, I did not understand j^our full reply.
Mr. Kramer. I said I think that he may have applied for a job with
a committee with which I was working, and I think I met him at that
time.
Mr. Tavenner. Did he make his application through you?
Mr. Kramer. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him prior to that time?
Mr. Kramer. I have no recollection of knowing him prior to that
time.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he given a position?
Mr. Kramer. I don't think so.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATE'S GOVERNMENT 2945
Mr. Tavenner. Have you met him since that time?
Mr. Kramer. No ; I have not.
Mr. Tavenner. During the year 1944, did you attend a meeting
along with Victor Perlo, Nathan Witt, and John Abt, which was
arranged by Earl Browder, who was then general secretary of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have occasion to visit the State of Cali-
fornia?
Mr. Kramer. Several times.
Air. Tavenner. When were you there?
Mr. Kramer. In 1934 and again in 1946.
Mr. Tavenner. Wlien you were there in 1946, where did you
reside?
Mr. Kramer. I frankly don't remember the address. I know it
was some place in Glen dale.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it at the home of William and Edwina Pomer-
antz at 2342 Bancroft, Los Angeles?
Mr. Kramer. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. Were they known to you to be members of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. WTiile in Los Angeles on this trip, did you visit
Nemmy Sparks?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds,
Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet Pauline Lauber Finn while you were
in California in 1946?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet Aubrey Finn?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. In November 1946 did you have a meeting with
Harry Magdoff, Victor Perlo, and Irving Kaplan?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you had occasion to write an article or a
speech in which you urged that the atomic secret should be given to
Russia?
Mr. Kramer. To the best of my recollection, no.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you in doubt about that?
Mr. Kramer. I said to the best of my recollection, no.
Mr. Tavenner. Did vou meet Albert E. Blumberg in November
1947?
Air. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Air. Tavenner. Are you now or have you ever been a member of
the Communist Party?
Air. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Air. Tavenner. While you were living in Washington, were you a
member of the Washington Book Shop?
Air. Kramer. No. •
Air. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of the Washington
Book Shop, regardless of where you were living?
Air. Kramer. No.
Air. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Air. Walter. Air. Ki-amer, when did you last see Air. Pressman?
Air. Kramer. Sometime last year. I don't remember when.
2946 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Walter. Where?
IMr. Kramer. In New York.
Mr. Walter. Your relations were entirely friendly, were they not?
Mr. Kramer. Yes.
Mr. Walter. And during the period when you and he were working
together for the Government you were close friends, were you not?
(At this pomt, Mr. Kramer and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Kramer. Yes, more or less.
Mr. Walter. Yes. In order to avoid any embarrassment, let us
put it this way: you were personal friends; is that the fact?
Mr. Kramer. Beg pardon?
Mr. Walter. You were personal friends?
Mr. Kramer. Yes.
Mr. Walter. And you have always considered Mr. Pressman to be
your friend. You have never quarreled with him. Is that correct?
Mr. Kramer. More or less, I suppose.
Mr. W^alter. Yes. Then what reason could Mr. Pressman have
for coming before this committee and under oath testifying that you
and he were members of the same Communist Party cell if it wasn't
true?
(At this point, Mr. Kramer and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Air. Kramer. I can scarcely answer for Mr. Pressman on that.
Mr. Walter. Well, if you were friends, can you imagine any reason
why he would come before this committee and testify under oath
falsely about his friend?
Mr. Kramer. Mr. Walter, I am not an expert on abnormal
psychology. I have no idea.
Mr. Nixon. What kind of psychology?
Mr. Kramer. Abnormal psychology. I have no idea.
Mr. Walter. Can you think of any reason — not as a phychologist
or expert but as an individual — why your friend would come here and
commit perjury about you?
Mr. Kramer. I can think of plenty of reasons.
Mr. Walter. Beg pardon?
Mr. Kramer. I said I can think of plenty of reasons.
Mr. Walter. Could one of them be that Mr. Pressman realizes
that the American way is in danger and that he feels that he can make
a contribution toward the preservation of our Republic by doing
what he did — and it took some courage for him to do it, I might add.
Could that be one of the reasons wliv he came here?
(At this point, Mr. Kramer and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Kramer. I am not in a position to speculate as to what his
reasons are, Mr. Walter.
Mr. Walter. You said you laiew ma.ny reasons. I was just
suggesting one.
Mr. Kramer. There would still be considerable speculation.
Mr. Nixon. When you used the term "abnormal psychology"
you meant you were surprised at what Mr. Pressman did?
Mr. Kramer. Not entirely.
Mr. Nixon. Not entirely?
Mr. Kramer. No.
Mr. Nixon. Did you discuss it with him before he came down?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question, sir, on the
same grounds.
COMMUNISM m THE xmiTED STATTES GOVERNMENT 2947
Mr. Walter. Isn't it a fact Mr. Pressman did discuss with you
what he was going to do, and endeavor to prevail upon you that the
right thing to do at this hour was to do just what he did?
(Hon. John S. Wood entered the hearing room.)
Mr. Kramer. I must dechne to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Walter. And didn't Mr. Pressman point out to you that com-
munism is not what he thought it was, and that he felt that you would
be making a great contribution if you would join with him and assist
the Congress of the United States in endeavoring to bring home to the
people what communism really is, and didn't you refuse to go along
with him on that?
(At this point, Mr. Kramer and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Kramer. The answer to that is "No."
Mr. Walter. jSIr. Pressman did endeavor to prevail upon you to
come before this committee with him, ditln't he?
]Mr. Kramer. The answer to that is "No."
Mr. Walter. Did he point out to you that he was going to do it
and he thought it would be a good idea if others did the same thing?
Mr. KRA.MER. No.
Mr. Walter. Just what did he say?
Mr. Kramer. I told you that the last time I had seen Mr. Pressman
was quite some time ago. I don't recall what he may have said at
that time, franldy. It was nothing to the effect of the questions that
you have asked.
Mr. Walter. Has he talked to you since the Korean incident, let
us call it?
Mr. Kramer. No.
Mr. Walter. He has not?
Mr. Kramer. No.
Mr. Walter. Has he talked to you over the telephone about it?
Mr. Kramer. No.
Mr. Nixon. A moment ago, in answer to a question by Mr. Walter,
you said that there were plenty of veasons why Mr. Pressman might
come here and commit perjury about you. I understand from that
that you say he did commit perjury about you. Is that right?
Mr. Kramer. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the same
grounds.
Mr. Nixon. Reading your statement, Mr. Kramer, I note your
grave concern over the Bill of Rights of our Constitution and the
necessity of defending it. I presume you mean what you said in the
statement?
Mr. Kramer. That is right.
Mr. Nixon. Do you believe the Constitution should be defended
against all enemies of the country?
Mr. Kramer. I do.
Mr. Nixon. You beheve that every step should be taken against,
for example, espionage activities within the country, don't you?
Mr. Kramer. I do.
Mr. Nixon. Have you ever engaged in any such activities yourself?
Mr. Kramer. I have not.
Mr. Nixon. Have you any information about such activities?
Mr. Kramer. I have none.
2948 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Nixon. Have you ever given any material that you obtained
in your Government position to an unauthorized person?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Nixon. You just said you had never engaged in any espionage
activities of any type.
Mr. Kramer. That is exactly what I said.
Mr. Nixon. You said you had never given any material to an
unauthorized person?
Mr. Kramer. If the implication of your present question is espion-
age, the answer is there was none. The term "material" is so broad.
The chairman, at the beginning of the session, read a newspaper
article which dealt, it seems to me, with unauthorized material. The
term "unauthorized material" in your question is similarly broad.
My answer to that question is still that I refuse to answer on the same
grounds.
Mr. Nixon. If you say the use of the term is too broad, how would
you describe it? The implication in your answer is that you may
have given some unauthorized material. Is that right?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Nixon. Have you given any classified material to any person
not connected with the Government?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Walter. Anything further?
Mr. Wood. Mr. Kramer, were you ever associated with or a member
of or have any connection with the staff of the La Follette Civil
Liberties Committee?
Mr. Kramer. I was a member of the staff.
Mr. Wood. For how long?
Mr. Kramer. About a year.
Mr. Wood. Do you recall the dates?
Mr. Kramer. 1936 to 1937, I believe.
Mr. Wood. That is all.
Mr, Walter. Mr. Velde.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Kramer, I noticed in certain instances you |ad-
mitted your acquaintanceship with certain individuals, and in other
cases you denied your acquaintanceship, and in other cases you
declined to answer on the ground your answer might incriminate you.
What is the distinction between your acquaintanceship with different
people?
Mr. Kramer. I think that lies within my discretion.
Mr. Velde. Have you ever signed a non-Communist oath of any
kind?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. Velde. Have you ever attended any Communist Party meet-
ings known by you to be such?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Velde. Did you ever carry a Communist Party membership
card?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2949
Mr. Velde. Have you had any personal contact in any way — by
mail, by telephone, or otherwise — with Lee Pressman in the last 6
months?
Mr. Kramer. I may have. I don't recollect.
Mr. Velde. Did you have any contact through any other individual
with Mr. Pressman?'
Mr, Kramer. I don't believe so.
Mr. Velde. That is all.
Mr. Nixon. Did I understand you to say you had not seen Mr.
Pressman personally for a year? Is that correct?
Mr. Kramer. I think the last time I saw him was last year.
Mr. Nixon. And you saw him on that occasion where?
Mr. Kramer. As I recall it was lunch, with perhaps several other
people present.
Mr. Nixon. Let me ask you about Mr. Abt. You know Mr. Abt?
Mr. Kramer. I do.
Mr. Nixon. Have you discussed with Mr. Abt the possibility of
your making: a statement similar to the one Mr. Pressman made when
he appeared here on Monday?
Mr. Kramer. I have not.
Mr. Nixon. Have you discussed that with Mr. Witt?
Mr. Kramer. I have not.
Mr. Nixon. Wlien you saw Mr. Pressman a year ago, you say he
did not discuss with you the possibility of his or your breaking with
the Commimist Party?
Mr. Kramer. I must decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Nixon. You are a loyal American citizen, Mr. Kramer. I
assume that from your statement.
Mr. Kramer. I am, Mr. Nixon.
Mr. Nixon. Can a man be a loyal American and a Communist
at the same time?
Mr. Kramer, I believe he can,
Mr. Nixon. You believe he can. Do you believe that what the
Communists are engaging in in the United States at the present time
in regard to the United Nations action in Korea is consistent with
loyalty to the United States?
Mr. Kramer. I don't know what all those activities are.
Mr. Nixon. You certainly have read of their stand in the Daily
Worker and other Communist publications, have you not?
Mr. Kramer. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Nixon. Or perhaps you read of their attitude in the statement
Air. Abt has given the committee?
(At this point, Mr. Kramer and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Nixon. In which he says that the undeclared war that this
Government is waging in Korea violates the interest of the American
people. Do you subscribe to that position?
Mr. Kramer. If you will leave off the last part and ask do I sub-
scribe to the position that the present adventure in Korea is against
the interest of the United States, I would say I do. So does Mr.
Walter Lippmann.
2950 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr, Nixon. There might be a Httle difference between Mr. Lipp-
mann and yourself in that respect. If you were drafted to serve in
the war against Communist aggressors in Korea at this time, would
you serve?
Mr. Kramer. I would have to decide at that time.
Mr. Nixon. Mr. Lippmann has made his decision. I understand
it is usually a part of the tactics of people in your position to drag in
other people. You have not yet decided whether, if you were drafted
to serve in the Army of the United States, you would serve?
Mr. Kramer. That is a question I will have to decide at that time.
Mr. NixoN. You would have to make the decision when the ques-
tion was presented to you?
Mr. Kramer. That is right.
Mr. Velde. How do you feel about it at the present time?
Mr. Kramer. I hadn't thought about it.
Mr. Velde. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. John Abt.
Mr. Walter. Hold up j^our right hand, please. You swear the
testimony you are about the give this committee shall be the truths
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Abt. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN J. ABT, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,,
HAROLD I. CAMMER
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please?
Mr. Abt. John J. Abt, A-b-t.
Mr. Tavenner. You are represented here by the same counsel wha
is representing Mr. Witt and Mr. Kramer?
Mr. Abt. I am, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. You are appearing before this committee in re-
sponse to a subpena which was served on your, I believe?
Mr. Abt. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you please give the committee a brief outline
of your educational background?
Mr. Abt. Before I do that I should like to request from the chair-
man an opportunity to read a statement which I have prepared for
presentation here, which is quite brief.
Mr. Walter. We will put it in the record at this point and it will
be made a part of your remarks.
Mr. Abt. Inasmuch as you accorded to the witness who appeared
here on Monday, and who 1 take it is responsible for my being recalled
this afternoon, an opportunity to make a preliminary statement, it
would seem to me, in- all fairness, the same opportunity should be
accorded to me.
Mr. Walter. I didn't make the ruling in that case, but I rule on
your request this afternoon.
Mr. Abt. I understand the statement will appear in the record at
this point?
Mr. Walter. It will.
(The statement above referred to is as follows:)
COMMUNISM m THE UNITED STATE'S GOVERNIVIENT 2951
Statement of John J. Abt Before House Committee on Un-American
Activities, September 1, 1950
As the committee is aware, I appeared, in response to a subpena, before a
subcommittee of your committee, just 2 years ago.
At that time, I declined, on constitutional grounds, to answer many of the
questions that were asked.
From the press accounts of the committee hearings this week, it is evident
that you have subpenaed me today to propound the same questions which I
declined to answer in August 1948.
The committee should know — and if it docs not, I so advise you now — that
my position with respect to these questions has not changed in the slightest degree
since the date of my previous appearance. On the contrary, events have served
to confirm and deepen the convictions I then held.
It is therefore clear that the purpose of the committee in recalling me at this
time, to put questions I have previously declined to answer, is not and cannot
be to elicit information for legitimate legislative objectives. It can only be for
the punitive purpose of laying the foundation for a contempt citation.
It is therefore my intention, in the course of this examination — and I so advise
the committee at the outset- — to assert every right granted me by the Constitu-
tion and to make every constitutional objection which I deem well founded to the
questions put by the committee.
Under ordinary circumstances, it would be both strange and unnecessary for
a witness before a congressional committee to explain his reasons for invoking
constitutional guaranties which are the birthright of every American.
The fact that today a witness before your committee is impelled to do so is a
measure of how far agencies of Government have transgressed the principles for
which the founding fathers fought our Revolution and which a victorious people
wrote into the Bill of Rights.
Your committee has chosen to brand the assertion of constitutional rights as
disloyal, and evidence of what it calls "un-Americanism."
From its inception, your cominittee has nullified the first amendment. Re-
cently, it has taken the further step of stripping witnesses of the protection of the
fifth amendment, and so far perverted constitutional history as to suggest that
assertion of the privilege secured by that amendment is itself evidence of crime.
It is a sorry commentary on the state of constitutional liberties in America
that it should be necessary to remind a committee of the Congress that the great
constitutional guaranty against involuntary self-accusation had its origin in the
struggle against the hateful star chamber of the British Crown. It was to make
certain that no American should ever again be subjected to such tyrannical
inquisitions that this guaranty was written into the fifth amendment.
It is therefore a gross violation of the very right that the fifth amendment was
designed to protect, to imply that its invocation is evidence of guilt. It was
embodied in the Constitution, not to shield the guilty, but for the high purpose
of protecting the innocent against exactly the kind of star chamber proceedings
in which this committee has so long engaged.
Toda}'^, it is perhaps more important than at any time in our history that every
truly loyal American reassert these simple constitutional truths with all the vigor,
stubborness, and tenacity at his command.
For, today, the course upon which the Government of our country has embarked
threatens catastrophe for the Nation and its people. The undeclared war it is
waging in Korea, at a heavy cost in American life, and its military intervention
in the internal affairs of China, violate the interest of the American people and
threaten the peace of the world. The mounting billions it is spending for domestic
and foreign armaments are not buying us friends or firm allies. Instead, American
efforts to bolster rotten reactionary regimes and stem the tide of the liberation
movement in colonial countries are earning for us the enmity of hundreds of
millions of common people throughout the world.
The people of our own country are paying the cost of these senseless adventures
and will pay yet more heavily in the days to come — with the lives of their sons;
with their living standards and welfare; with their democratic liberties. If this
course is continued, it will destroy every value that the American people have
stood for and worked to achieve since the birth of our Nation. It can end only '
in the disaster of a war of atomic annihilation.
I am confident that, despite the efforts to silence all opposition, the peace-
loving, democratic spirit of the American people will assert itself against these
policies and reverse them.
67052— 50— pt. 2 8
2952 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
The Bill of Rights guarantees the full and free expression of the popular will,
so that every act of government shall at all times and under every circumstance
be subject to the corrective force of an enlightened public opinion.
The assault on the Bill of Rights that we are witnessing today is not a sign
of strength, but evidences the fatal weakness of a government that no longer
dares submit itself to the freely expressed judgment of a fully informed people.
Each article in the Bill of Rights therefore becomes a bastion in the fight for
peace in the world and freedom and security for America. 1st defense against all
those who would abridge or subvert it is the first duty of every citizen.
To the best of my ability, then, I shall follow the precept of Thomas Jeffer.son,
who wrote:
"It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist
invasions of it in the case of others; or their case may, by change of circumstances,
become his own. It behooves him, too, in his own case, to give no example of
concession, betraying the common right of independent opinion, by answering
questions of faith, which the laws have left between God and himself."
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question as to your educa-
tional background?
Mr. Abt. I gave that when I was before the committee 2 years ago.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe there is only one person, or maybe two,
on the committee now who were on the committee at that time.
Mr. Abt. I will be glad to repeat the information I gave the com-
mittee 2 years ago.
I was born in Chicago, 111., May 1, 1904. I attended the Chicago
schools. I received my A. B. degree from the University of Chicago
in 1924, and my law degree from the University of Chicago in 1926.
I practiced law in the city of Chicago from 1927 to 1933, specializing
in real estate and corporate matters.
I came to Washington in the fall of 1933 to enter the Federal service.
I was employed as an attorney in the Agricultural Adjustment Ad-
ministration, and became the chief of the litigation section of that
agency. I resigned from the Department of Agriculture I believe in
the spring or summer of 1935 and accepted employment as assistant
general counsel of the Works Progress Administration.
Sometime in the fall or winter of the same year I was loaned by the
Works Progress Administration to the Securities and Exchange
Commission for the purpose of assisting in the preparation of litigation
under the Public Utilities Holding Company Act.
I worked on that job until sometime in the late spring or early
summer of 1936, at which time the work was finished. I then ac-
cepted employment as chief counsel of a subcommittee of the Senate
Committee on Education and Labor investigating civil liberties, under
Senator Robert M. La Follette, Jr. I resigned in early 1937 and be-
came a special assistant to the Attorney General in charge of the trial
section of the Antitrust Division of the Department of Justice.
I resigned from the Government service during the summer of 1938,
went to New York, and accepted employment as special counsel to
the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America. I continued in that
capacity until January 1948, at which time I resigned to become the
general counsel of the Progressive Party, a position I now hold.
I think that covers it, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the circumstances, please, under
which you were employed with the AAA, how you obtained the
position which you occupied in that agency?
Mr. Abt. Yes. I came to Washington originally on an offer that I
received from Secretary of the Interior Ickes, to accept employment
in the Public Works Administration. On my arrival in Washington I
COMMUNISM IN THE UOTTED STATE'S GOVERNMENT 2953
spoke to Mr. Jerome Frank, now Judge Frank, with whom I had been
associated in the practice of law in Chicago, and Mr. Frank suggested
that I join the legal staff of the triple A, which I did.
Mr. Tavenner. In what capacity did you work on the legal staff
of the AAA?
Mr. Abt. First as an attorney and later as Chief of the Litigation
Section, but at all times primarily on litigation matters of the triple A.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Mr. Lee Pressman prior to your
employment at AAA?
Mr. Abt. My recollection is that I met him socially once or twice
in Chicago prior to my employment with triple A.
Mr. Tavenner. And did you know Mr. Kramer prior to your
employment there?
Mr. Abt. No; I did not know Mr. Kramer prior to my employment
at triple A.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know an individual by the name of
Harold Ware?
Mr. Abt. Mr. Chairman, at this point, if I may, I should hke to
enter a continuing objection to any question dealing with my opinions
or my associations, on the grounds that such questions violate my
rights under the first amendment to the Constitution, and I should
like to have that appear as a continuing objection to all questions
dealing with such matters. If the Chair does not sustain that objec-
tion— and I take it from previous actions of the committee that it
will not rule on such objection— I shall decline to answer in the
exercise of my constitutional privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Walter. Then, as I understand, every time you refuse to
answer a question it is because of what you think your constitutional
rights are?
Mr. Abt. Yes, sir; and perhaps I should indicate on those occasions
I am invoking my constitutional privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Walter. It is understood your refusal to answer will be on the
ground of what you believe your rights to be Under the Constitution
of the United States.
Mr. Abt. I would like to put it this way, that when I say "the same
grounds" or "for the reasons previously stated," it means that I object
to the question because of my rights under the first amendment, and
that objection not having been sustained, I therefore decline to answer
the question in the exercise of my constitutional privilege under the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Walter. Very well.
You say you resigned your position with triple A in 1935?
Mr. Abt. Yes.
Mr. Walter. Who was general counsel at that time?
Mr. Abt. That was subsequent to the time that Mr. Frank left the
triple A, and as I recall — I am not certain of this — Mr. Wenchel was
then general counsel of triple A.
Mr. Walter. Was it not a man who is now a member of the
Federal Reserve Board?
Mr. Abt. No. You are thinking of Chester Davis, who was
Administrator of triple A.
Mr. Walter. Was [he Administrator at the time you left triple A?
Mr. Abt. Yes.
Mr. Walter. Who left at the time you did?
2954 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Abt. To my knowledge no one did.
Mr. Walter. Did Mr. Pressman leave at that time?
Mr. Abt. No. Mr. Pressman and Mr. Frank left earlier. When
I subsequently presented my resignation to Mr. Chester Davis, he
informed me he would like me to continue, and that the departure of
Mr. Frank and Mr. Pressman was in no way directed to me or my
work.
Mr. Walter. Did he not tell you at that time that Mr. Wallace
was anxious that a number of people in the Department of Agi'icul-
ture leave, because he felt they were more interested in social matters
than agricultural problems?
Mr. Abt. No. Mr. Frank's and Mr. Pressman's resignations were
requested, I believe, sometime in the winter of 1935. My resignation
was not requested at that time and was never subsequently requested.
Mr. Walter. But Mr. Pressman's resignation was requested by
Mr. Wallace, along with who else's, do you remember?
Mr. Abt. Mr. Pressman, Mr. Frank, Mr. Gardner Jackson, and
Mr. Francis M. Shay, I believe.
Mr. Walter. Mr. Wallace requested that they resign because he
felt they were not interested in agriculture but were interested in
things he did not think it proper for his employees to be interested in?
Mr. Abt. He requested their resignations.
Mr. Walter. Proceed.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Pressman has testified recently before this
committee that he was recruited into the Communist Party by
Harold Ware. He stated he was thereafter requested to attend a
meeting, and at that meeting he found present when he arrived, you
and Mr. Kramer. Is that correct?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mr. Kramer at that
time?
Mr. Abt. What time?
Mr. Tavenner. \Mien you were employed in the AAA?
Mr. Abt. Yes, I was.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chambers has testified before this committee
that you were a member of this same Communist Party cell. Were
you acquainted with Mr. Chambers?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question for the reasons prev-
iously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Pressman has testified that a man by the name
of J. Peters, sometimes known as Alexander Stevens, furnished litera-
ture and material to you and to him and to Mr. Kramer. Did you
know Mr. Peters?
Mr. Abt. Mr. Tavenner, I decline to answer that question on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive any Commmiist Party literature
or pamphlets from any individual at any group meeting which you
attended?
Mr. Abt. That question, I think, is a loaded question, because it
implies I attended a group meeting.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time have Communist Party
literature delivered to you?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question on the gi'ounds pre-
viously stated.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2955
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a group meeting of the
Communist Party or any cell thereof?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question also on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Elizabeth T. Bentley has testified also of meeting
with a group in the District of Columbia, including Henry Collins,
yourself, Mr. Pressman, Mr. Kramer, and others. Do you recall
attending any meeting at which she was present?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre-
viously stated, and I would like to add to my answer at this point,
if I may, just this: I am not aware whether or not in the records
of the committee there is any charge against me by any witness of
having committed acts of espionage, but I would like to take this
opportunity, unreservedly and unqualifiedly, to say I have never
engaged in any acts of espionage, and to deny any charges to that
effect which may be lodged in committee records, either expressly
or by implication.
Mr, Chairman, does the committee mind if I smoke?
Mr. Walter. No, sh. I am setting the example.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you had occasion to be associated with Mr.
Lee Pressman since you severed your connection with the AAA?
Mr. Abt. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee the circumstances?
Mr. Abt. I served with Mr. Pressman in the WPA, where he for
a time was general counsel and I was assistant general counsel; and
subsequent to that time, when I was special counsel for the Amalga-
mated Clothing Workers of America and he was general counsel of
the CIO, we had frequent meetings and dealings on matters of com-
mon interest. Subsequent to that time I have also met and dis-
cussed matters with Mr. Pressman relating to the work of the Pro-
gressive Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Were other people in the conferences that you
had with Mr. Pressman relating to the Progressive Party?
Mr. Abt. Relating to the Progressive Party?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Abt. Yes, of course. Mr. Pressman at one time was a member
of the national committee of the Progressive Party, and also a mem-
ber of the platform committee of the Progressive Party, on which
I served too.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Simon Gerson attend any of those meet-
ings at which you and Mr. Pressman were present?
Mr. Abt. Air. Gerson, I believe, is a newspaper reporter. He may
have been around some of those meetings. I really don't recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what his comiection is with the
Communist Party?
Mr. Abt. I have no direct information; no, sir. I assume he is a
member of the Communist Party.
Mr, Tavenner. Do you recall his presence at any time in any
conference between you and Mr. Pressman?
Mr. Abt. As I say, I do not recall; which is not to say that it might
not have been possible. I simply do not recall.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Simon Gerson discuss with you at any
time the Communist Party line which he desired to inject into the
Progressive Party?
2956 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question on the grounds I previ-
ously stated, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Walker. Why do you feel that that would incriminate you,
Mr. Abt?
Mr. Abt. I believe you are a lawyer?
Mr. Walter. A member of the bar.
Mr. Abt. I think we still both remember our course in constitu-
tional law sufficiently to know that is not a proper question to ask a
witness who invokes his privilege under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Velde. You said you assumed Simon Gerson was a member of
the Communist Party. Why did you make that assumption?
Mr. Abt. Because of his public activities on behalf of the Com-
munist Party.
(At this point, Mr. Abt and Mr. Cammer confer.)
Mr. Abt. Mr. Cammer advises me that Mr. Gerson is legislative
representative of the Communist Party in New York.
Mr. Velde. You have had no personal contact with him, however,
that would lead you to believe he was a member of the Commmiist
Party?
Mr. Abt. I think I will decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you married?
Mr. Abt. Yes, sir; I am.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your wife's name?
Mr. Abt. Jessica.
Mr. Tavenner. Was she formerly the wife of Harold Ware?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question, Mr. Tavenner, on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Jessica Smith Ware? Were you
acquainted with Jessica Smith Ware?
Mr. Abt. It smells to me like a trick question, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question on the gromids previ-
ously stated, since it attempts to accomplish by indirection the same
result that you attempted to accomplish by the previous question.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting of any kind at the
home of Victor Perio in Arlington, Va.?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question on the grounds previ-
ously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I possibly should have asked you first if you
know a Victor Perlo?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question also on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Henry Collins?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Abraham George
Silverman?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been acquainted with Whittaker
Chambers?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Nathan Silvermaster?
Mr. Abt. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Gerald Graze?
COINOIUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2957
Mr. Abt. Mr. Tavemier, reserving the continuing objection which
I have noted previousl}" as to any inquiry into my personal associa-
tions, under the first amendment, and assuming that objection is not
sustained, I will state that I do not recall the name.
Mr. Tavenner. Were the deportation proceedings against Harry
Bridges in the Department of Justice while you were a member of
the staff of the Department of Justice?
Mr. Abt. To the best of my recollection they were not, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time seek any confidential infor-
mation relating to the Harry Bridges case from any employee of the
Department of Justice?
Mr. Abt. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did anyone ever ask you to obtain any informa-
tion from the Department of Justice relating to the Harry Bridges
deportation proceedings?
Mr. Abt. I don't recollect any such request having been made of
me, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Charles S. Flato?
Mr. Abt. I believe that I have met Mr. Flato, ves.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever discuss with him the matter of the
deportation proceedings against Harry Bridges?
Mr. Abt. It is very difficult to give a categorical answer to that, Mr.
Tavemier. To the best of my recollection I did not.
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you reside during the year 1944?
Mr. Abt. 444 Central Park, West; my present place of residence.
Mr. Tavenner. Was a Communist Party meeting ever held in
your apartment during the year 1944?
(Hon. Francis E. Walter left the hearing room.)
Mr. Abt. On the grounds previously stated, I decline to answer
that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Harry Magdoff ?
Mr. Abt. On the grounds previously stated, I decline to answer
that question.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Edward Fitzgerald?
Mr. Abt. For the reasons previously stated, I refuse to answer
that question also.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with David Wheeler?
Mr. Abt. David Wheeler?
Mr. Tavenner. David Niven Wheeler.
Mr. Abt. I don't recall the name, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with William Remington?
Mr. Abt. No. sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mary Price?
Mr. Abt. On the grounds previously stated, I decline to answer
that question,
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Duncan Lee?
Mr. Abt. On the same grounds, I decline to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Maurice Halperin?
Mr. Abt. I believe I may have met Mr. Halperin. I am not sure.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us the circumstances of your ac-
quaintanceship with him?
Mr. Abt. If I met him, it was a very casual social meeting.
(Hon. Francis E. Walter returned to hearing room.)
2958 COMMUNISM i^r the united states government
Mr. Abt. (continuing). Pardon me. Thinking back, I may have
that Halperin name confused with another Halperin. Can you give
me some other identification of the man?
Mr. Tavenner. He was with OSS.
Mr. Abt. No, to the best of my recollection I do not know the
man.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Robert T. Miller III
of the State Department?
Mr. Abt. I don't recall the name, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting
with Helen Tenney, T-e-n-n-e-y?
Mr. Abt. You are doubling up on your questions again, it seems
to me.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Helen Tenney?
Mr. Abt. To the best of my knowledge I do not.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Willard Park?
Mr. Abt. To my knowledge I am not.
Mr. Tavenner!^ I beheve that is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Walter. Any questions? Mr. Nixon.
Mr. Nixon. No.
Mr, Walter. Mr. Velde.
Mr. Velde. No questions.
Mr. Walter. Anything further, Mr. Tavenner?
Mr. Tavenner. That is all.
Mr. Walter. The committee stands adjourned until Wednesday
morning, September 6, at 10:30.
(Thereupon, at 4 p. m., on Friday, September 1, 1950, an adjourn-
ment was taken until Wednesday, September 6, 1950, at 10:30 a. m.)
i
HEAKINGS KEGAEDING COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED
STATES GOVERNMENT— PAET 2
FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 1950
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the Committee on
Un-American Activities,
Washington, D. C.
EXECUTIVE session ^
A subcommittee of one of the Committee on Un-American Activi-
ties met, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a. m. in room 226, Old House
Office Building, Hon. Morgan M. Moulder presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Morgan M. Moulder,
Richard M. Nixon (arriving as noted), and Harold H. Velde (arriving
as noted).
Staff members present: Louis J. Russell, senior investigator; Donald
T. Appell, investigator; John W. Carrington, clerk; Benjamin Mandel,
director of research; and A. S. Poore, editor,
Mr. Moulder. Have the record show that this hearing is conducted
in executive session by Morgan M. Moulder, a member of the commit-
tee, as a subcommittee of one, as directed and authorized by the
Honorable John S. Wood, chairman of the Committee on Un-American
Activities.
Would you hold up your right hand and be sworn, please. You
solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothmg but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Lowenthal. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MAX LOWENTHAL, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS
COUNSEL, BURTON K. WHEELER
Mr. Russell. Will you state your full name?
Mr. Lowenthal. Alax Lowenthal.
Mr. Russell. When and where were you born?
Mr. Lowenthal. 1888, Minneapolis, Minn.
Mr. Russell. Wliat is your present address?
Mr. Lowenthal. 467 Central Park West, New York; and New
Milford, Conn.
Mr. Russell. Mr. Lowenthal, you are appearing before the Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities in response to a subpena which
was accepted by your counsel, Mr. Wheeler?
Mr. Lowenthal. I assume so.
1 Testimony taken in executive session, herewith released with unanimous approval of the committee.
2959
2960 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMIUSTT
Air. Russell. Mr. Chairman, do you want Mr. Wheeler to identify
himself for the record?
Mr. Wheeler. I have already done that. Burton K. Wheeler,
Southern Building, Washington, D. C.
Mr. Russell. Mr. Lowenthal, would you furnish the committee
with an outline of your employment background, particularly with
the United States Government?
Mr. Lowenthal. Well, let's work it backward.
Mr. Moulder. Do you wish to fix some date in connection with
that, Mr. Russell, how far back you want him to go?
Mr. Russell. I don't think there is too much of it.
Mr. Lowenthal. In 1912 T became law secretary to Judge Julian
W. Mack. He was a United States circuit judge. I served there
about a year.
In 19171 was a clerk attached to a foreign mission for a few months.
Mr. Wheeler. What mission was that?
Mr. Lowenthal. It was a confidential mission that I don't care
to go into. It was only for a short time, and I never discuss that
kind of Government work with anybody.
In 1917, later that year, I was secretary of the President's Mediation
Commission.
In 1918 I was assistant to the Chairman of the War Labor Policies
Board.
Sometime in 1920 I was assistant secretary of the Second President's
Industrial Conference, which was appointed either by President
Wilson or by Secretary of Labor William B. Wilson, I think the
former.
Mr. Chairman, that is a long time ago. There are a lot of details
I don't remember.
Mr. Wheeler. Was that the Taft Board?
Mr. Lowenthal. No. You are talking about the Taft-Walsh
Labor Board. I wasn't connected with that, I don't think.
In 1929 I was appointed executive secretary of the Wickersham
Commission, which was called the National Commission on Law
Observance and Enforcement.
Mr. Wheeler. Who was the Chairman of that?
Mr. Lowenthal. George W. Wickersham.
Mr. Wheeler. He was the one who appointed you?
Mr. Lowenthal. There were five members who knew me, and I
presume they all sat in on it, but he was the man I suppose I laiew
the best.
In 1935 I was appointed counsel to the Senate Committee on Inter-
state Commerce in an inquiry relating to railroads and railroad hold-
ing companies and affiliated companies.
Wait a minute. In 1933 I was a consultant or something or other
connected with the United States Senate Banking and Currency
Committee.
Sometime along about those years— and I wouldn't remember just
when — I was called down to consult with or to advise several other
Senate committees, but those were just temporary, passing things. ^
In 1942 I was appointed to the staff of the Board of Economic
Warfare.
Mr. Wheeler. What year was it you came to work with the Inter-
state Commerce Committee of the Senate?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2961
Mr. LowENTHAL. In 1935, and I was with that job pretty con-
tinuously until I left for this work. I left the Senate committee with
the approval of its chairman, Senator Wheeler.
In 1942 or 1943 there was some kind of problem, it is not quite clear
in my mind; there was a war commission, I don't remember its
name; it was headed by Mr. McNutt.
Mr. Wheeler. Paul McNutt?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Yes, Paul McNutt. I was sworn to assist them
for a very temporary period on something or other, trying to straighten
out some difficulties among some men who were not part of the
Government.
Mr. Chairman, I wouldn't remember these things too definitely,
and anything any records would show that would correct me, I
would accept those corrections.
Toward the end of 1943 or early 1944 I left that work. During
all that period and since that period I have been consulted informally
by various people in the Government, but so far as I can recollect
at this moment, I don't think ever in any official capacity. There
might be some, and I would be very glad to have those noted for the
record.
Mr. Moulder. Were you compensated for those services?
Air. LowENTHAL. Oh, no. Wait a minute. In 1946 — this is an
indication of how one's memory slips on these things — I went to
Germany. I don't remember my exact title. I believe I was called
an adviser or special adviser on restitution of stolen property. My
recollection is I was there a month or 4 weeks, and then I came
back. I never returned.
There may be one or two other things. I would like to make it
clear I would be very glad to have any gaps or errors in this, that
your committee has, noted on the record. I don't remember. It
goes back 38 years, and that is a long time.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed, Mr. Russell.
Mr. Russell. While you were in Germany, were you associated
with General Clay?
Mr. LowENTHAL. He was, as I remember it, either the head of the
American civil administration in the American zone of Germany,
or General McNarney was the head and General Clay was the next
in command. There was a period when General McNarney was there,
and I wouldn't be sure which of the two, but in my work, insofar as
I dealt with either of them, it was with General Clay. I did not deal
with General McNarney.
Mr. Russell. Was that an appointment under the War Depart-^
ment?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I think it was.
Mr. Russell. Who recommended yom- employment by the War
Department?
(Hon. Richard M. Nixon entered hearing room.)
Mr. LowENTHAL. I couldn't say for certain. I was asked by a
group of organizations whether I w^ould permit my name to be sub-
mitted for recommendation by General Clay, and I agreed. On the
other hand, I had known the Secretary of War for I think more than
30 years rather intimately. That was Secretary Patterson. I wouldn't
know whether he had anything to do with it in the way of recom-
mendation. I just wouldn't know.
2962 COMIMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Russell. Were you acquainted with David Wahl?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I was.
Mr. Russell. Was he one of those who recommended your appoint-
ment to a position in the War Department?
Mr, LowENTHAL. He was Washington representative of one of
these organizations which asked me to serve.
Mr. Russell. How long were you acquainted with David Wahl?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Well, either I fu'st met him in 1942 or in 1943, so
far as I can remember.
Mr. Russell. Where did you meet him?
Mr. LowENTHAL. My best recollection of that at the present is
this: I had been asked to organize a division of the Board of Economic
Warfare sometime in the summer or fall of 1942. My recollection is
that he came in to see me. Whether he came in on his own or was
sent in by the Civil Service Commission or any other agency, I
wouldn't know; I wouldn't remember; but as far as I recollect that
would be the first time that I ever saw him.
Mr. Wheeler. 1 think it might be well for you to tell who the heads
of the other organizations were who asked you to permit them to
submit your name.
Mr. LowENTHAL. I was asked to a luncheon at the Biltmore Hotel,
or it might have been the Commodore, in New York. There were
representatives of five organizations there. They told me they had
received a cable and had been asked to submit several suggestions of
names of corporation lawyers of some ability, and would I be willing
to have my name submitted.
It was a very nice lunch, a very nice talk, I knew some of the people
there, had known them before, and I said yes. However, I did not
commit myself to any long stay, and when I retuiTied after 4 weeks or
a month or so, it wasn't definite that I wouldn't go back, but I didn't
go back.
Mr. Russell. Wliy did you return from Germany?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Well, there were many motives, I suppose, in
my mind. For one thing, I didn't like being there. I was away from
my family. I had been sick part of the time. The places were
bombed out. The Americans were in the position of a colonial govern-
ment, in a way. I didn't like the whole atmosphere. People were
very nice to me in the administration; the}^ were very fine people.
I think I must have been in the middle or late fifties. I didn't care
to be away from my family. I imagine that had some weight with
me. On the other hand, I had sized up the matter pretty well. There
were formalities involved with the law, and drafting the law. I was
not myself a draftsman. I didn't care to go in for drafting work. You
had to discuss this with the War and State Departments, unless they
would O. K. it.
The long and short of it was I did come back, and though I didn't
say I would not return, General Clay was over here a little later and
I told him I would rather that someone take my place. There may
have been other considerations of a personal nature, but I really
didn't like being over there in my time of life.
Mr. Russell. Did anyone request you to return from Germany, or
was your return your own voluntary action?
Mr. LowENTHAL. My own voluntary action. I wouldn't want
to say that my wife didn't want me back, I think she probably did,
but I don't remember whether she said so.
COJMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2963
Mr. Russell. Was David Wahl one of those who attended the
luncheon in New York at the time you were asked to file for this
position?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I don't laiow, but I doubt it. I think it was the
higher-ups of the organizations who were there.
(Hon. Richard M. Nixon left hearing room.)
Mr. Wheeler. There were five organizations?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Ycs. I would doubt he had stature sufficient to
attend such a luncheon. These were the top people, as I remember.
There might have been some people further down in the ranks from
these organizations; I don't remember.
Mr. Russell. Were you acquamted with Alger Hiss?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Yes.
Mr. Russell. Were you acquainted with Donald Hiss?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Yes.
Mr. Russell. Did you ever discuss with David Wahl the possi-
bility of having Alger and Donald Hiss invest funds in radio station
WQQW here in Washington, which was at one time known as the
Metropolitan Broadcasting Corp.?
Mr. IjOwenthal. I wouldn't have any recollection, but I would be
surprised if I did. I wouldn't know anything about that. If you
have any information to the contrary, put it on the record.
Mr. Moulder. Can you fix any approximate date, Mr. Russell,
when such conversation is alleged to have been had?
Mr. Russell. In Washington, D. C, dm-ing the early part of 1946.
Mr. Lowenthal. Mr. Chairman, if there is any information to
that effect I will be very glad to accept it, but I have no recollection
of it and I should very much question whether such a thing happened.
Mr. Russell. Did David Walil ever discuss with you the possi-
bility of having any person invest funds in any radio station?
Air. Lowenthal. I don't remember; I don't remember. I was
never a subscriber to any radio station, and I don't think I have
invested — wait a minute. I think our family had some RCA stock;
I think so.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Russell, can you refresh his recollection in any
way?
Mr. Russell, At the time this corporation was formed there were
a lot of stockholders, and the station has been the subject of some of
our investigations.
Mr. Lowenthal. Mr. Chairman, I am pretty confident I never
owned any stock in that company. If I may complete my answ^er,
I was going to say I never owned any stock, nor did any of my family,
in any radio company, but I want to qualify that. There may be
companies on the New York Stock Exchange or the Curb which had
to do with radio, directly or indirectly, A. T. & T., RCA, and so on,
which we undoubtedly had shares in. What is the name of this
company?
Mr. Russell. Metropolitan Broadcasting Corp., also kno^\^l as
WQQW.
Mr. Moulder. You might ask if he recalls any conversation with
David Walil about the purchase of any stock in a radio station.
Mr. Lowenthal. If I were recommending that somebody else buy
stock in it, I would naturally have bought stock myself. I wouldn't
put somebody else in some security that I wouldn't go into. But I
2964 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
want to repeat, Mr. Chairman, I don't claim to have the best of
memories, now nor for some years past, even as far back as 1935, and
if you have any information to the contrary of anything I say, I will
be glad to accept it; I just don't know.
Mr. Wheeler. When was the conversation supposed to be?
Mr. Russell. It would be hard to fix. In the first place, the
persons who invested in this corporation (Ud not do so hoping to make
a return on their investment. There were many conversations with
many individuals, and altogether there were approximately 100 stock-
holders. The question is based on information given to us during
the questioning of other stockholders.
Mr. LowENTHAL. Mr. Chairman, let me say this: I can't remember
any time in my life — there might be exceptions — when I recommended
to anybody that they go into any company unless I have been willing
to go into it myself; and I have never dealt with any friends who have
recommended that I go into companies or that my family go into
them unless they went into them.
Mr. Moulder. Your answer is you do not recall having had any
conversation such as mentioned in the question of Air. Russell?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No, but if he has any information that is reliable,
he should put it in the record. You ask me questions about people
and events. Talking with the Senator this morning, or last night,
there were things I remembered all of a sudden. I wouldn't remember
this. This seems to me to be so contrary to my practice. I don't
put people into companies unless I go in myself, and I don't remember
ever having owned any shares in a company such as that.
Mr. Moulder. That was not the question.
Mr. LowENTHAL. But I am trying to answer, did I recommend that
they get somebody else to go into a company? I wouldn't naturally
do such a thing unless I went in myself. That is contrary to the way
I do business.
Mr. Moulder. That was a conversation with Mr. Wahl ; was it?
Mr. Russell. Yes.
Mr. LowENTHAL. I dou't know the value of the shares, but let's
say it was $100 a share.
Mr. Moulder. How often did you see Mr. Wahl?
Mr. LowENTHAL. During this period, 1946, when I came back from
Germany, I saw him a number of times; but, as I understand, these
questions relate to the early part of 1946. Is that right?
Mr. Russell. It could have been the latter part of 1945, some-
where along there.
Mr. LowENTHAL. Latter part of 1945. I am trying to remember
where I was and what I was doing. My own recollection is that in
1945 I was working on the Hill informally, helping a couple of Sena-
tors, and my recollection is— this is very vague — that that is where I
spent my time so far as I was in Washington.
You remember that, Senator; I was working with you and Clyde
Reed. I might have done other things, but I don't remember.
Mr. Moulder. What was Mr. Wahl doing at that time?
Mr, LowENTHAL. He was Washington representative or secretary
of the American Jewish Conference, which was an amalgamation of a
great many Jewish organizations, as I understand it.
I would say I could not recollect anything of this sort. The ques-
tioner seems to be very positive about it, and I would be very glad to
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2965
have him put it in the record, but I would say it was 100-percent
contrary to the way I do business. I wouldn't ask anybody to go
into a company unless I made at least a token investment. That is
completely contrary to the way I do business.
Mr. KussELL. Are you acquainted with the reason why David
Wahl left his employment with the United States Government?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No. I don't even know when he left.
Mr. Russell. Were you acquainted with Bartley Crum?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Yes.
Mr. Russell. Wlien did you last see him?
Mr. LowENTHAL. A year ago or 2 years ago; I couldn't remember.
Mr. Russell. Do you recall having seen him in 1947 here in
Washington?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I saw him, but I w.ouldn't be able to say the year.
Mr. Russell. Was it during the period that this committee was
conducting an investigation of the Hollywood motion-picture indus-
try?
Mr. LowENTHAL. It was somewhere along there. Anything the
record has on that is O. K. with me.
Mr. Russell. Did you discuss the Hollywood hearings with
Bartley Crum?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Mr. Crum discussed them with me.
Mr. Russell. What was the nature of the discussion?
Mr. LowENTHAL. He wanted to know if I would advise him on
procedure. He was consulting me as a lawyer, and I am confident
he wouldn't mind my saying to you what he did. Whether it is
proper for me to say what he said and what I said, I will have to take
a chance on it.
Mr. Crum wanted my advice. I had had a great deal of experience
with committee investigations, and had been consulted by other
private people before on various investigations on the other side of
the Capitol, and I had been consulted by committees themselves. I
had a very high opinion of Mr. Crum; thought he was a fine man.
Now, as I recollect it — again this is subject to correction; any
correction you want to put in the record is all right with me — he told
me that he had advised these people who were his clients to testify
before the committee. "Weh," I said, "why didn't they?" He
said there were other lawyers in the case who didn't agree with him.
I told him — I wouldn't know whether I told him here or in New
York — that I thought they had been unwise in holding public meetings
and so on; that, if he was not in command of the situation as counsel,
it didn't seem to me I could really advise him; that, if he was given
complete control of the situation, he could talk to me again; my door
was always open. I don't remember whether this was while they
were still before the committee, or after they had gotten through, or
whether they could come back if they were through ; I don't remember.
Bartley Orum is and then was, and has been all his life, a Roman
Catholic. I had confidence in his true Americanism. Had he come
to me for advice with power to act, I probably would have been willing
to advise him. Hundreds and thousands of people come to me for
advice on millions of subjects — that is an exaggeration, 1 guess, but
hundreds of subjects. I have done that for many years. 1 certainly
wouldn't shut my door in Mr. Crum's face. But, as far as I under-
stood, he was not in a position to control that situation. In any
2 COMIVIUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
event, he didn't come back to me. He may have come back once
or twice in that immediate period, but that was the last,'T heard of
that. There may have been a lot of desuhory conversatK ;. }•! do not
recollect, but the thing that stands out in my mind is |uat I said to
him, "If you can't act for these people, you ought not to talk to me,"
and he told me he liad advised that they should testify..
If that is a breach of the relations between him and his attempt to
consult me as a lawyer, I am very sorry, and I apologize for that
breach. I only hope the committee will cover me if I am attacked.
(Hon. Harold H. Velde entered hearing room.)
Mr. Russell. Did you arrange any press conferences for Bartley
Crum during the Hollywood hearings?
Mr. LOWENTHAL. No.
Mr. Russell. Did you see or. visit Phillip Dunaway during the com-
mittee's Hollywood investigation?
Mr. LoWENTHAL. No.
Mr. Russell. Did you meet him in New York City?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I don't have any recollection of that.
Mr. Russell. Did you discuss with Bartley Crum the possibility
of securing Phillip Dunaway's services?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I wouldu't have any recollection of that.
Mr. Russell. Do you know Phillip Dunaway?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Oh, yes; oh, yes. But I want to make it clear
that I wouldn't have been likely to do that, because, if Mr. Crum
could not control that situation, it was foolish for me to give him any
advice of any kind. Whether I ever talked to Phillip Dunaway about
it, I wouldn't know. I have seen Phillip Dunaway recently, but up to
that time I hadn't seen him for 2 or 3 years, I think.
Mr. Moulder. Did you ever receive any compensation for any
services performed by you in an official capacity on the subject of the
questions propounded by Mr. Russell?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No.
Mr. Russell. Do you recall whether you met Mr. Dunaway in
New York during the course of the committee's Hollywood investi-
gation?
Mr. LowENTHAL. In 1947? I wouldn't recall that. Anything
you might have that would show I did, I am perfectly willing to have
put on the record.
Mr. Chairman, I have seen, in the course of 38 years in public life,
tens of thousands of people. I can't possibly remember all these
things. But anything your committee has that supplements, cor-
rects, or fills in anythingi say, I will be glad to have put in the record.
Mr. Russell. Did 3-ou discuss Phillip Dunaway with David Wahl
during the course of the committee's Hollywood investigation?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I wouldn't have any recollection; but, again, if
you have anything on that I will be glad to have you put it on the
record. But it seems to me very doubtful, Mr. Chairman, after tefi-
ing Mr. Crum I wouldn't advise him unless he was in control of the
situation, that I would have bothered with such a thing. I have a
vague recollection of speaking with some degree of criticism to some
person, possibly other than Mr. Crum, but 1 think it was ]\lr. Crum,
that the idea of having public meetings struck me as juvenile.
Mr. Russell. When you speak of "public meetings," you are refer-
ring to the Committee for First Amendment?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2967
Mr. LowENTHAL. If I ever knew the name of the committee, I
don't r^- ^nber it now. I don't remember who they were or what
they W(_t "^nt, if I ever did know, I will be glad to have you put it on
the record. - just can't remember things of that kind.
Mr. Russell. Did any of the other attorneys representing the
Hollywood witnesses consult you during the course of the committee's
Hollywood investigation?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I remember a lawyer named Kenny from Cali-
fornia.
Mr. Russell. Robert W. Kenny?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I dou't remember his first name. I laiow he did
not consult me. I don't know who all the attorneys were, but I would
be doubtful whether anyone among these counsel, other than Mr.
Crum, consulted me; and if they advised these men not to testify, as
Mr. Crum told me they did, tliat would have been completely out
"with me.
I don't mean to pass judgment on them as lawyers, or on their judg-
ment, or on their clients or their view on political philosophy, or
anything like that. I guided myself on a very simple principle, and
told Mr. Crum that, if he wasn't in control so that his clients would do
what he advised them, there was no use in his consulting me.
But I would like to say, Mr. Chairman, so that this record has some
proportion to it, that I am consulted by businessmen, corporation
people, family people, about all manner of situations, to a very great
extent. A lot of people seem to think I have good judgment. Maybe
I have, and maybe I haven't. But the number of people who consult
me is endless, and this kind of consultation by Air. Crum would be one
in thousands over the years.
I am consulted by United States Senators; not very much on this
side of the Capitol, because this is kind of strange territory to me,
although one committee here had me here for several weeks, and I was
very glad to serve them; but I do see innumerable people, and gen-
erally my door is open, unless I am too busy. I reserve the right to
decline to advise, as I did to Mr. Crum, and I think I was sound in
my attitude. I may have given him some passing advice before it
became clear he did not have control.
Mr. Russell. Do you recall whether you discussed the com-
mittee's Hollywood investigation with Ben Margolis, a member of the
firm of Katz, Gallagher & Margolis?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I dou't remember ever meeting the man. I may
have, in the course of years, but I don't remember.
Mr. Russell. Did David Walil discuss the committee's Hollywood
investigation with you?
Mr. LowENTHAL. David Wahl is not a lawyer.
Mr. Russell. Was he present in any of these discussions with
Bartley Crum?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I should very much doubt it; very much.
Mr. Russell. Were you acquainted with Charles Kramer?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Ycs.
Mr. Russell. Did you see him during the course of the com-
mittee's Hollywood investigation in 1947?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I should very much doubt it. I think he was
connected with some Senate committee, and I doubt that I saw him,
67052— 50— pt. 2 9
2968 COJVDVIUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
because, whatever that Senate committee was, I had no contact with
it so far as I remember.
Mr. Russell. Were you present at any meetings with these Holly-
wood people when Charles Kramer was present?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I never met any of these Hollywood people at any
time. There is one name in the Hollywood group I remember. He
was a son of Ring Lardner, whom I have alwa3^s admired for his
writings. That is the only one. It is possible if any of them were
Communists I might have met them under some other name, but I
don't remember. And during that period I am pretty confident I
would not have talked to any of them; not knowingly. I was con-
sulted by their lawyer, not by them, so far as I know.
Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with John Dierkes, D-i-e-r-k-e-s,
who was at one time employed by the Treasury Department of the
United States Government?
Mr. Lowenthal. I might have met him. You would have to give
me more details.
Mr. Russell. Do you know J. Richard Kennedy?
Mr. Lowenthal. Again, I might have met him, but you have me
in a fog here.
Mr. Russell. Dierkes and Kennedy both later were associated in
Hollywood in connection with the production of a motion picture.
Mr. Lowenthal. What was the name of it?
Mr. Russell. It was a picture pertaining to the life of the late
President.
Mr. Lowenthal. President Roosevelt? I wouldn't know if I even
saw the picture.
Mr. Russell. To the best of your recollection?
Mr. Lowenthal. This is beyond my depths.
Mr. Russell. To the best of your recollection you don't know
John Dierkes or J. Richard Kennedy?
Mr. Lowenthal. If these names are names of people I have met,
I will be glad to have you furnish it for the record.
Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Sidney Buchman? He
was also associated with the Hollywood motion-picture industry.
Mr. Lowenthal. Mr. Chairman, there was a time when the Senate
Interstate Commerce Committee was investigating motion pictures.
Although I was not connected with that investigation officially, I was
consulted from time to time. Some of these names may have come
up. I wouldn't know.
Mr. Wheeler. I don't recall any.
Mr. Lowenthal. But I want to repeat a million times, if you have
anything on it that I knew these men, put it on the record and I will
accept it. I can't recollect it.
Mr. Russell. Were you acquainted with Martin Popper, an attor-
ney here in Washington?
Mr. Lowenthal. I once knew a man named Popper, but he was
connected, my recollection is, with the Lawyers' Guild; but, if he was
an attorney in Washington, I wouldn't loiow.
Mr. Russell. He is now in New York City.
Mr. Lowenthal. I wouldn't laiow.
Mr. Russell. Were you a member of the Lawyers' Guild?
Mr. Lowenthal. I was.
Mr. Russell. Are you now a member of the Lawyers' Guild?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2969!
Mr. LOWENTHAL. No.
Mr. Russell. When did you resign?
Mr. LowENTHAL. May I tell you about that, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Moulder. Certainly.
Mr. LowENTHAL. So far as I can recollect, the National Lawyers'
Guild was organized probably in the 1930's. One of the earliest men
in it, if not one of the organizers, was an elderly man from my home
town, Minneapolis. He is a well-known man, a very successful lawyer.
He is 15 years my senior. He is still active in practice. I always
looked up to him. As I got older and passed into middle age, we got
even more friendly. He would generally look me up when he was in
the East, and I would always look him up when I was visiting back
home.
My recollection is that he several times asked me to join that
organization. I told him I wasn't interested, I had other things to do,
and I was too busy. That is my recollection. I may be in error in.
some details.
One day in Washington I either ran into liim or had a luncheon
engagement with him at the Hay-Adams. He asked wouldn't I join,
and I did, and gave him a check. I may have belonged a year or
two years. I never was interested in the literature. I make no
criticism of it, no criticism at all. I never had the time to read it.
I never attended any meetings of theirs, luncheons, or anything. I
just stopped paying dues, and I don't imagine this friend of mine
resented it. But let me add one thing. As far as I am personally
concerned, I have never known anything about it that was com-
munistic, and this friend of mine was fighting communism in this
country and in the world probably earlier than most people in
America, and earlier than any committee of Congress. He was one of
the staunchest and most vigorous anti-Communists in the country.
Mr. Wheeler. You also belong to the American Bar Association?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Yes. And I belong to the New York Bar
Association. I have belonged to that for almost 40 years. My old
boss was president of that association.
Mr. Velde. Do you recall when you stopped paying dues to the
National Lawyers' Guild?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I don't know. I think they sent monthly or
quarterly or half-yearly bulletins, and I couldn't go it. Some of these
organizations keep on sending you stuff. I make no criticism of it. A
lot of stuff that comes to us goes into the wastebasket because we
don't have time to read it, along with corporation reports of corpora-
tions we have stock in, we don't have time to read those.
Mr. Wheeler. How long were you a member?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I would say the longest 5 years, or maybe 3. If
I knew when I joined, I could be more accurate. I think their dues
were $2 or $6. It wasn't the money. Nor was it that I thought there
was anything wrong with them. I wasn't interested when they started
and I wasn't interested when I was a member. I don't think I ever
attended any function or any meeting of any kind. If you have
anything to the contrary, I will be glad to have it go in the record and
I will accept it.
Mr. Russell. I think you said you were employed by the Board of
Economic Warfare in 1942?
Mr. LowEKTHAL. No ; I think it was in 1943 that I was employed.
2970 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Russell. Why did you resign your position with the Board
of Economic Warfare?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Well, I went into it because I thought I could do
war service. I went into it after talking with the Senator. I felt I
had done about as much as I could do, and I had other things to do,
and there were others who could carry on. I had put a businessman
in charge of the division before I went out, Joe McGoldrick, and Leo
Crowley had come in, and I had a feeling they could take care of things
without me.
Mr. Russell. Shortly prior to the time you resigned, were you
requested to appear before the Civil Service Commission?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I was.
Mr. Russell. Why did they want you to appear before the Com-
mission?
Mr. LowENTHAL. They wanted to examine me, I think.
Mr. Russell. Did you submit yourself to examination?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I told the man who called me this, as I remember
it, that, if he wanted to know anything about me, he had better come
to the office and ask me, and had better do it soon I because was
leaving soon, and I thought it was infra dig, beneath my dignity, after
my years in the Federal Government, to be questioned by some little
investigator in some little hole, in some back building, about my
career, I wouldn't stand for it; but that, if he wanted to know any-
thing about me, I would be glad to have him come over and ask any
questions he wanted, but I wholly disapproved on that way of doing
Government business; that I would be willing to be questioned by my
peers, but not by some little investigator who may not have been born
by the time I had begun to serve the Federal Government with some
honor, I feel that way today.
Mr. Russell. Did he indicate to you why he wanted to question
you?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I havc no recollection of anything else in that
conversation.
Mr. Russell. Was it because of some associations you might have
had?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I havc no recollection of anything else in that
conversation.
Mr. Russell. Were you ever interviewed by that investigator?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No ; I don't remember that I was. And I may
have said to him, I think, also, Mr. Chairman, that for some little
investigator to come around and ask me questions about my record,
which had already been passed upon bj^ some of the leading men in
the United States Senate, and by men who had been President, both
on the Democratic and Republican side, seemed to me rather ignoble.
I felt that way then, and feel today that to have some little investigator
question me about my record is ignoble.
Mr. Velde. You knew he wanted to question you?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Ycs. He was very apologetic, as I remember it,
and he said, "You hold a very important position and we have to go
through this form," and I think I said to him, "I don't care about
forms; I just don't like that way of doing business; I wasn't brought
up that way in the Government and I won't take it, and I don't think
anybody else should take it."
Mr. Russell. Was that investigation to be before the investigator
alone, or before the Civil Service Commission?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2971
Mr. LowENTHAL. I don't remember.
Mr. Russell. Would you have objected to appearing before the
Civil Service Commission?
Mr. LowENTHAL. The members of the Civil Service Commission?
Mr. Russell. Yes.
Mr. LowENTHAL. I may not have objected. I don't know what I
would have thought then. I know I was pretty sore about it.
Mr. Russell. Were you acquainted with Allan Rosenberg?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Ycs.
Mr. Russell. Was he employed by you in the Board of Economic
Warfare, or did he work under you?
Mr. LowENTHAL. He was in my division ia the Board of Economic
Warfare. May I comment on that?
Mr. Moulder. Yes, sir.
Mr. LowENTHAL. I was asked to do a job. The number of people
required to do that job varied from time to time, that is, the estimates,
but, as I recall it, the total number finally employed was 150. There
were at times discussed 200, 300, and so on.
Mr. Moulder. May I interrupt you? Did you have any control
over, or have anything to do with the appointment of, the man he
asked you about?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I could make a recommendation. It would have
to be passed upon by the Board of Economic Warfare and by the Civil
Service Commission, as I remember it. At that time, as I recall, in
1942 and 1943, the Government was scraping the bottom of the man-
power barrel. It was hard to get capable men or women. I had
written to men who had been my classmates 30 years before, all over
the country, to know if they were available for Government service.
I couldn't get one. It wasn't lack of patriotism. One man said he
had four sons in the service and he had to stay home to take care of the
practice; and so on.
I sought men from the Wickersham commission, men who had
worked there when I was secretary of the commission, but they were
elderly or middle-aged lawyers, and some were dead. I couldn't
get any from that staff. I tried to get people who had been on the
staff of the Interstate Commerce Committee. We got one or two.
We had a man come over from the Civil Service Commission. He
spent days there.
Mr. Wheeler. What was his name?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I don't remember the name. He came to study
our needs as to personnel. I went to the Harvard School of Business
Administration and asked if they knew anybody. I went to the Har-
vard Placement Department. I went to Radcliffe. We had a pro-
fessor from Columbia looking for people for us.
Hundreds of names came through. Sometimes we couldn't get
names through that we recommended; sometimes we could. This
man I have been asked about was working in the Board of Economic
Warfare, as I remember, before I came there. The work he was on
came to an end. We were glad to get him, and as I remember it, he
did a good job; a good job, as I remember it. He had been passed
upon already, or I assume he had, by the Civil Service Commission.
We got him, we were glad to get him, and as far as I knew he did a
first-rate job.
Mr, Moulder. He was employed before you were?
2972 coimjmunism in the united states government
Mr. LowENTHAL. Yes; that is my recollection. If there is any
error in that, I would be glad to have it corrected. I want to say,
Mr. Chairman, I personally did not know then, and have never known
since, anything discreditable about him as a lawyer or as a citizen.
Mr. Russell. When you were in Germany, did you see Mr.
Rosenberg?
Mr. Lowenthal. I don't think he was there. I never heard of his
being there. If he was there my recollection has gone hayw^ire. I
never heard of it. But if you say he was there, put it on the record.
Mr, Russell, Were you socially acquainted with him?
Mr. Lowenthal. Surely. Mr. Chairman, in order to keep that
thing intact and keep up morale, I had scores and scores of the staff
come to my home in Chevy Chase, and I entertained them. A lot of
them wanted to resign. Mr. Rosenberg wanted to resign. I had a
problem to keep him after we got him. You ask when I last saw him.
Well, 2 years, 4 years; I wouldn't know.
Mr. Russell. Were you acquainted with George Shaw Wheeler?
Mr. Lowenthal. Yes.
Mr. Russell. While you were in Germany, did you see George
Shaw Wheeler?
Mr, Lowenthal. Once.
Mr. Russell. Do you recall the circumstances surrounding that
meeting?
Mr. Lowenthal. I do; I do.
Mr. Russell. What was the nature of that meeting?
Air. Lowenthal. Mr. Chairman, there was a dining hall in Berlin
close to or a part of the administration headquarters, which seated
500, 1,000, or 1,500 people. Sometimes I would eat there. It was
about the only place you could eat unless you ate at one of the places
where you lived. I think it was on a Sunday, but I am not sure,
that in passing out of the dining hall — and frequently I ate alone;
that w^as one of the things I didn't like about my life there — I saw
this man and a lady and several children at a table by the door. It
turned out to be his wife and children. I greeted him, remarked on
the children, some pleasant word or other, and so far as I can recollect
I never saw him at any time in Germany on any other occasion; I
never had any words with him in Germany except in that kind of a
passing situation. I don't know what he was doing there.
Mr. Wheeler. Let me ask a question, if I may. As I understand
it, Dondero said in a speech that he was your assistant.
Mr. Lowenthal. In the first place, I had no assistant when I was
there. I didn't even have a secretary when I was there. In the
second place, I ran into a banker last night in New York m a restam-ant
who had been in Germany at that time, and I said to him, "Was this
George Wheeler ever my assistant in Germany?" He said, ''No;
he was in another division." I would like to go further, if I may,
Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed with any explanation you wish to make,
if it is pertinent to the question.
Mr. Lowenthal. I was charged with bringing Mr. Wheeler into
the Government. I think toward the end of my service with the
Board of Economic Warfare this man transferred, or wanted to
transfer and finally did transfer, I think it was from the War Pro-
duction Board.
Mr. Wheeler. That is, he was with the War Production Board?
COJNIMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2973
Mr. LowENTHAL. I think so ; he was with some other Government
board, and I think it was the War Production Board.
I usually met prospective employees coming into our division, not
always but usually, and I met him. So far as I can now recollect,
I don't think I had ever seen him before or ever known him before.
Of course in 30 or 40 years you see a lot of people, and I might have
run into him before, but I don't remember it now.
He transferred to our Board either shortly before I left or shortly
after I left; and whether he transferred at the time that this business-
man who was in charge temporarily while I was away was in charge, or
before or after that time, I wouldn't remember. My guess would be
that I never saw any of the work that he did with the Board. I don't
know how long he was there; I don't Imow when he went to Germany;
I don't know who took him to Germany. But I heard this, because I
tried to make inquiries 3 years ago when I was charged with having
brought him to Germany, or with having brought him into the Govern-
ment, or some charge such as that.
This may be wrong, because I don't know this at first hand at all,
but as I understand it, he was charged in Germany with certain
charges, and some general testified in his behalf who had known him
in the War Production Board and worked with him, or something
like that.
And I would like to say, Mr. Chairman, that if I am to be condem-
ned for 1 or 2 or 5 or 10 people who have come to work on staffs of
which I have been the head — and I have been the head of many staffs
in Government and in business — in the course of 38 years, if that is the
most that can be found of people who are nuts or drunks or anything
else, that is a pretty good record.
Mr. Moulder. Wlien you went to the Board of Economic Warfare,
do I understand that was a new agency?
Mr. LowENTHAL. That was an agency established in 1941 or 1942,
I believe.
Mr. Moulder. And the War Production Board existed before that?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Before that.
Mr. Moulder. And this man whose name has been mentioned,
Wheeler
Mr. LowENTHAL. He has no relationship to Senator Wheeler.
Mr. Moulder. Was it the practice then, as now, when a new
agency is set up, for people in other agencies who hear about the new
agency to seek a transfer to the new agency?
Mr. LowENTHAL. There is a lot of that, but I made this rule, no
stealing from other agencies. If a man wanted to leave another
agency or his work was completed, all right, but no recruiting from
other agencies. There were some good people we tried to get in that
we couldn't because they didn't fit in a particular slot or the Civil
Service Commission didn't approve them.
Mr. Moulder. Did the Board of Economic Warfare have its own
personnel office?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Yes.
Mr. Russell. Are you familiar with the circumstances under which
George Shaw Wheeler was afforded a loyalty hearing before the
Civil Service Commission?
Mr. LowENTHAL. If there was such a hearing it was after I was
with the Government.
Mr. Russell. It was in 1945.
2974 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. LowENTHAL. I was out of the Government long before that,,
except informal assistance to some Senators on the Hill, and that
kind of work, but I left the Board of Economic Warfare, as I remember
it, either in 1943 or early 1944. As a matter of fact, I was busy in
1944 on politics, all that year, a few personal things of my own I had
to take care of.
Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Lee Pressman?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I am.
Mr. Russell. Wliat was the nature of your acquaintance with him?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Let me work backward, If I may.
Mr. Moulder. Was your association social or business?
Mr. LowENTHAL. The last time I remember seeing Mr. Pressman
was around 1948, about that time, roughly speaking. He asked to
see me, and he asked for some advice or suggestion about a case that
seemed to me to be a very pitiful case. I said I could not advise him
or make a suggestion.
The preceding time was in 1948 when he asked me whether I could
supply him with some data on railroads that he wanted to use for the
Progressive Party. He didn't want any confidential material. He
knew I had a great deal of material. I said "No."
Mr. Moulder. You mean information concerning the operation of
railroads?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Ycs; their finances and things of that kind. I
knew a great deal about it. I had worked on a Senate committee
dealing with that for years. I had a hand in writing some of the
reports on railroads. I said "No."
Mr. Velde. When did you first make the acquaintance of Lee
Pressman?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I Wouldn't remember.
Mr. Velde. To the best of your recollection?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Probably sometime in the thhties, but I wouldn't
remember.
In 1944 I think I urged him, as counsel to the CIO, to help eliminate
Mr. Wallace from the Vice Presidency. He said, as I remember it —
and this is all subject to correction, but I think I fairly well remember
this — that he was standing on the sidelines and not going to the
convention of the Democratic Party. Mr. Murray was not in Wash-
ington at that time, as far as I know.
Mr. Wheeler. Philip Murray?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Philip Murray. I went to Chicago and saw
Philip Murray and urged the same program on him. I don't remem-
ber whether I ever spoke to the CIO or any of the labor groups in
1940 about candidates. There was a man I was supporting before it
became known that Mr. Roosevelt was going to run for a third term.
You may remember that was not known until after the convention
met.
Now, I would like to go back a bit in connection with Mr. Press-
man. I was once asked to be a member of or to sponsor a law maga-
zine that was being run in New York by a group of younger men and
women who had been graduates of law school. I was myself, in law
school, an editor of the Harvard Law Review.
Now, I have read somewhere that Mr. Pressman had written for
that magazine. I wouldn't want the record to show that he didn't
because I wouldn't remember. Anything on that that the committee
COIVTMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2975
has, I will accept 100 percent. In fact, anything the committee has
that would correct what I say on this or anything else, I will accept
100 percent.
If Mr. Pressman wrote for that magazine, it would have appeared
to me at the time as a guarantee of solidity, end I tell you why. As
I remember it, he was employed in New York in Mr. Chudburn's
law office, one of the 10 most important law offices in New York, if
not in the United States. In 1915 Mr. Chadburn asked me to go
over and see him. I had my own law office at 14 Wall Street in the
Bankers Trust Building.
You went up one elevator, and then took a special elevator to the
tower. It was a wonderfid law office in the tower, and there was this
tall Mr. Chadburn. He was attorney for Mr. Gould and other inter-
ests. He asked me to join him. He wasn't going to make me a
partner, but a special assistant or something like that. I remember
his saying, "I have earned $1,100,000 this year." That was good
money in 1915. I declined the offer, but I was very much compli-
mented. Anyone working in Mr. Chadburn's office would have
seemed to me to have a perfect set-up.
If that law magazine, which I have always regarded as a scholarly,
competent, truly American magazine, had any writings in it by Mr.
Pressman, at that time and by reason of anj^thing that has occurred
since, I, who went to no meeting of that law magazine, who attended
no luncheons so far as I can remember, who had nothing to do with it
other than lend it my name — if there is something wrong with me
about that, what do we say about Mr. Chadburn's law office? ^Vhat
do we say about Mr. Chadburn's clients who had to deal uath the
juniors?
This may not be well known to members of your staff, but I know
because I worked in a New York law office. The junior partners have
to take care of clients. If you keep up this process of making charges,
there isn't a corporation in the United States that won't be charged
with being communistic or anti- American.
I realize there are investigators who have no knowledge of that
part of American life, and never will have such Ivnowledge, because
they couldn't get a job in such places under any circumstances, except
maybe as a detective. But those of us who know something about
that part of American life know that if you keep up this process, there
will be no American who will be known as an American ; and I am sure
the members of this committee would not want that to happen.
Mr. Moulder. Proceed with the questions.
Mr. Russell. Did Mr. Pressman ever seek to have you appointed
as head of an investigative staff or organization which would investi-
gate the practices of the Civil Service Commission?
Mr. LowENTHAL. If he did, it is news to me; but if you have any-
thing to the contrary, put it on the record and I will accept it.
Mr. Russell. Mr. Pressman was asked some of these questions,
and I would like to ask you the same questions
Mr. LowENTHAL. It is all right, and if he has an}'- recollection that
is at variance with mine, I will accept it.
- Mr. Russell. These questions are not based only on what investiga-
tors have found, but on what other people have said. I was also em-
ployed in private industry, Mr. Lowenthal.
2976 COMMUNISM IN" THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. LowENTHAL. I am not saying anything about members of this
staff. I will reserve that for another occasion. If anything I have
said was taken to refer to any member of this staff, Mr. Chairman,
please strike it. I am not talking about this staff at all.
Mr. Russell. Did Lee Pressman propose your name as secretary
of the War Manpower Commission in 1942? Do you recall anything
of that nature?
Mr. Wheeler. I didn't get the question.
Mr. Russell. Did Lee Pressman propose your name as secretary
of the War Manpower Commission?
Mr. LowENTHAL. When was this?
Mr. Russell. In 1942.
Mr. LowENTHAL. What time in 1942?
Mr. Russell. Early in 1942.
Mr. LowENTHAL. Well, if he did, I would certainly have consulted
the Senator about it, because I consulted the Senator about what I was
to do before I left the Senate committee. I don't recall consulting the
Senator about it.
Mr. Moulder. Did you ever solicit Mr. Pressman to suggest
your name?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I never solicited anybody to propose me for any
job, but I can't say people haven't proposed me for jobs. I have been
proposed by many people for many jobs, but I have not always
accepted them.
Mr. Velde. Your answer is you have no recollection?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I havcn't any recollection.
Mr. Wheeler. You don't know that he ever recommended you?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No; but he may very well have recommended me
for various positions. All I can say is, when it comes to politics,
although he and I have agreed on some things, he and I have disagreed
on some things.
Mr. Russell. Were you at one time counsel for the Russian-
American Industrial Corp.?
Mr. LowENTHAL. My law firm, I believe, incorporated that com-
pany and I assume were counsel for it.
Mr. Moulder. What year was that?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Probably sometime in the early twenties.
Mr. Russell. 1923.
Mr. LowENTHAL. It was incorporated in 1923? As I remember, in
the Congressional Record it was charged it was in existence in 1922.
I don't know.
Mr. Russell. According to our information, you became counsel
for it in 1923.
Mr. LowENTHAL. I think that my firm incorporated that company
and became counsel whenever it was. I wouldn't know at all. As I
remember, in the Congressional Record it was charged that in 1922 it
was in existence.
Mr. Moulder. When did your connections cease with that cor-
poration?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Tliis is a very vague recollection on my part,
because that was not in my department in the office. I didn't
handle the incorporation of companies and things of that kind. I was
handling much bigger things at the time. We turned that over to
juniors.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2977
This is a very, very vague recollection. I have been trying to
remember since I saw this kind of charge. I believe when the banks
began sending dollar currency for emigrant families to their relatives
in Lithuania, Latvia, those border countries, because they were being
gypped if you transferred rubles — when the banks began sending
dollar currency, I think this company went out of business, but I
wouldn't remember because I didn't handle its affairs.
Mr. Moulder. This was many years ago?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Ycs. That is my guess.
Mr. Wheeler. That was organized for the Amalgamated Clothing
Workers?
Mr. Lowenthal. It was.
Mr. Moulder. That was in the 1920's?
Mr. Lowenthal. I believe so, but I didn't handle that in my
office. I was on more remunerative work, I am glad to say.
Mr. Russell. Were you a stockholder in the Russian-American
Industrial Corp.?
Mr. Lowenthal. I might have been, I don't remember. If I
was, I lost the money, and it couldn't have been much more than
$1,000.
Mr. Russell. Were you associated with the Twentieth Century
Fund at one time?
Mr. Lowenthal. Yes.
Mr. Russell. What was the purpose of that?
Mr. Lowenthal. Mr. Edward A. Filene, merchant and philan-
thropist of Boston, and a very fine man, my client and friend, asked
me to go on the Board, and I went on the Board. I think it met
once a year, and I believe I generally attended the meetings; and as
far as I can remember, the work was very fine work.
Mr. Russell. Did you Imow Evans Clark, the director of that
fund?
Mr. Lowenthal. Yes.
Mr. Russell. Do you know how it was that he was appointed to
the position of director of the Twentieth Century Fund?
Mr. Lowenthal. I have no knowledge of that. I think he was
there long before I was put on the board.
Mr. Russell. You had no information about his earlier back-
ground?
Mr. Lowenthal. Anybody that Mr. Filene said was O. K. was
O. K. with me. Mr. Chairman, I might have had some information,
but I wouldn't remember now.
That fund, I would like to have it noted for the record, so far as I
have ever heard of it — I resigned from it maybe 15 or 20 years ago —
I have no knowledge that that fund was anything other than a very
high-grade, patriotic, useful organization, and I hope that this record
will show that so far as I have any knowledge of it, I believe it is
an O. K. group. Mr. Filene is dead, and I would like to note on
the record too that he was a great American.
Mr. Russell. Did you ever contact the Russian Ambassador in
Washington for the purpose of getting visas for persons to leave
Lithuania?
Mr. Lowenthal. I went to the Russian Embassy about 1940 to
ask them whether and how it could be arranged that a lady and her
two children then in Lithuania could leave there. I was told that
2978 COAIMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
would require the approval of the Supreme Council of Russia, and
that almost never happened. The children are now dead because
they were not allowed out of that country. They were the only chil-
dren of this lady, and she will never have any more children. So far
as I can remember, Mr. Chairman, that is the only time I was ever
in the Russian Embassy. I don't think I ever went to any of their
parties, even when everybody else in Washington thought it was a
nice thing to do.
Mr. Russell. In other words, these people were clients?
Mr. LowENTHAL. My client was a very wealthy businessman
who would have been executed if he had returned to Lithuania, and
the children are now dead, and it is one of the sad things in my
experience that I didn't have the ability to get them out of there.
Mr. Wheeler. If everybody was accused who went to the Russian
Embassy, I am afraid a lot of people would be accused, because they
went to the Russian Embassy and ate caviar.
Mr, Velde. I don't think the committee intends to accuse Mr.
Lowenthal because he went to the Russian Embassy.
Mr. Moulder. In that instance you were endeavoring to get these
children and their mother out of a communistic region?
Mr. Lowenthal. We wanted to get them out of there. The
mother had been arrested when the Russians came in. The children
are dead.
Mr. Russell. Were you a member of the International Jm-idical
Association?
Mr, Lowenthal. That was this magazine I spoke of before. I
was. I don't think I was at the beginning, but I was asked later and
said yes, and I think they went out of business in a few years after that,
6 or 8 or 10 years.
Let me add, Mr, Chairman, that I read something about it in the
Congressional Record. A good deal of it was news to me. As to the
people named in the Congressional Record as having been writers for
the magazine, I wouldn't remember, I never went to any meetings.
Mr, Wheeler. Didn't they say Alger Hiss wi-ote for it?
Mr. Lowenthal. They said he did. At that time Alger Hiss was
employed by Cotten & Franklin, one of the best guaranties, to me,
of reputation, you could ask for. It is one of the six largest firms in
New York, Joc Cotten had been Under Secretary of State under
Hoover, a wonderful man.
Mr. Moulder, I understood you had nothing to do with the control
of the magazine?
Mr, Lowenthal, I read it from time to time and always thought
it was a very scholarly, reputable magazine; and I would like to see
sometime, a committee of Congress ask a committee of deans of some
of the law schools to read it and tell the committee whether it was
scholarly. That was my impression of it. Many of the things they
were for in their magazine, the House of Representatives voted for too.
Mr. Russell. Were you a member of the national committee of
the IJA?
Mr. Lowenthal. I don't know if they had a national committee.
I was asked to be a sponsor and I said yes. That was all there was
to it. I never had anything to do with the management of it, and
never went to a meeting in connection with it that I recollect.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2979
Mr. Russell. Were you acquainted with Joseph R. Brodsky during
the time you were in the IJA?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Brodsky was a lawyer who was a partner of a
man named Hale, Captain Hale, and I met him once or twice many
years earlier. Wliether I met him in this period, I don't remember.
Mr. Russell. He was also a member of the IJA?
Mr. LowENTHAL. If that is the case, I would be very glad to have it
noted on the record. I wouldn't know.
Mr. Russell. You didn't know he was a member of the Communist
Party at that time?
Mr. LowENTHAL. The number of people that I didn't loiow were
members of the Communist Party is something that sometimes makes
my hair stand on end.
Mr. Russell. Ours too.
Mr. LowENTHAL. And I want to repeat what I said before, whUe
the examiner is looking up something. Any of these names that were
mentioned in the Congressional Record, it is all right with me to
have their names go in the record as belonging to this or another
organization; if it is a fact, I will accept it. But I think after 38
years in public affairs, to be accused of belonging to two or three
organizations is a pretty small number.
Mr. Moulder. You are not connected with any of these organ-
izations now and have not been for many years?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Tliis law magazine went out of business years
ago. The Lawyers' Guild, I stopped paying dues years ago, I don't
remember when. But if you are going to talk about organizations,
I think it would be fair to ask about the organizations I do belong to.
Mr. Wheeler. What organizations do you belong to?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I contribute to the YMCA in Connecticut; the
Red Cross; one of my farmer neighbors made me join the Farm
Bureau Federation. I said, "J am not a farmer. I lease my land,
and the only thing I am growing is timber." He said I ought to
join, and I joined. I saw in the Congressional Record the charge
was made some farm organization was communistic. It made me
wonder. But if my farmer neighbor tells me it is O. K., it is O. K.
T belong to bar associations; various relief things; clubs.
Mr. Moulder. You said that was the American Bar Association?
Mr. LowENTHAL. And the New York Bar Association. I can't
remember all the things I belong to. I belong to alumini associa-
tions— the Harvard Law School Association of New York; the Har-
vard Law School Association of the Nation; and the Minnesota
Alumini Association. I remember one time paying $25 for a member-
ship in the Minneapolis Alumni Association; I don't laiow what
happened to it. I belong to the New York City Mmnesota Alumni
Association. I don't remember all the things I belong to.
Mr. Russell. Did you ever register as a lobbyist?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No.
Mr. Russell. Have you ever lobbied agamst the passage of any
bill before the Congress?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I opposed the wire-tapping bill, but not for money.
I opposed it because I was against it, because the organizations in
which I believe are against it, and the House of Representatives
voted it down, and one of the most prominent committees ever in
the United States Senate was against it, and it isn't law to this date.
2980 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. Wheeler. Who wen the members of the subcommittee?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Over in the Senate a committee report was filed
which condemned the wire-tapping business. The chairman of that
committee was Senator Wheeler, of Montana.
Mr. Wheeler. The subcommittee
Mr. LowENTHAL. The chairman of the subcommittee was Mr.
Truman, of Missouri; I think Mr. Wagner, of New York — I am not
sure of all the names; I think Barkley, of Kentucky; Austin, of New
York; Shipstead, of Minnesota. And they let that bill die in their
committee.
I still think I was right, I would be glad to work against any
wire-tapping bill any time. And Senator McCarran, of Nevada,
chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, whom I have the honor
of quoting in a book I am writing, said that if there was any bill that
came up providing for wire-tapping, he would oppose it, and what
Senator McCarran cays is good enough for me.
Mr. Russell. Did you ever oppose a proposed amendment to the
Nationality Act which provided for the cancellation of citizenship of
any naturalized citizen whose activities established that his allegiance
was to a foreign government? That was H. R. 6250 of the Eightieth
Congress. I don't expect you to remember the entire details of the
bill, but it provided for the cancellation of the citizenship of any
naturalized citizen whose activities established his allegiance was to a
foreign government.
Mr. LowENTHAL. Somc years ago I went to see Senator McCarran,
whom I Hke. There was some bill or other that had to do with the
cancellation of citizenship ; I forget on what grounds.
I said this to Senator McCarran, I said, "Now, Senator, under the
law the courts can cancel citizenship obtained by fraud. There were
cases in and after the First World War in which men who had come
here from Germany were charged with being in favor of the Kaiser,
or with having said something offhand in a saloon or somewhere, and
there were some cases of people who for as long as 37 years were in
this Nation, and their citizenship was canceled." I said, "You can
have a great deal of injustice done in a period of hysteria. Why not
leave it to the courts?"
That is what I remember. If it was that kind of bill, I would not
Hke it. But whether I ever did anything about such a bill, I would not
now recollect. If you have sometliing to indicate I went before a
committee or anything of the kind, I would be glad to have it go on the
record, but I was never a paid lobbyist for anybody at any time.
Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Carol Weiss King?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I am.
Mr. Russell. Was she ever employed by you?
Mr. LowENTHAL. She was.
Mr. Russell. Was she ever known to you to be a member of the
Communist Party?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No ; and I don't believe she is. I believe she is
too independent to let anybody tell her what to do.
Mr. Wheeler. Who is she?
Mr. LowENTHAL. A la\vyer in New York. She came to work in
our office. She was there 3 months.
Mr. Russell. Was she employed as a law clerk?
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2981
Mr. LowENTHAL. Yes; and it was during a period I was engaged in
some big business matters away from the office. I don't know if she
did her work well or not. I imagine she did it well. She is the
daughter of a very wealthy, very successful, New York lawyer. She
started out practicing for herself, representing poor people, and that
brought her many immigration cases. Wall Street firms in New York
would turn over cases to her. I once sent her an internationally
known musician, now dead, who was a stateless man.
I have never heard it said that Mrs. King has ever done anything,
as a lawyer or as a citizen, that was improper. She once told me 99
percent of her clients had nothing to do with any politics of any kind;
and if, other than cases sent her by Wall Street firms, a Communist
came to her and she took the case, it is one of our proudest boasts of
American jurisprudence that everybody in America is entitled to
counsel; and when men are members of organizations or groups held in
contempt or disrespect, it is hard enough for them to get a lawyer, and
if in addition to that we attach the theory of guilt by association to the
lawyer who is willing to accept such a retainer, I think we are under-
mining one of the most wonderful principles of our jurisprudence.
Mr. Wheeler. Didn't Wendell Willkie represent a Communist?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I think he did. And it is mentioned in a book
which I am engaged in writing that the Senate Judiciary Committee
has remarks of Samuel Untermeyer made 30 years ago that are well
worth reading.
Mr. EussELL. In the case of Mrs. King it is not only a question of
whom she represents. She has been a member of 15 Communist-
front organizations.
Mr. LowENTHAL. If she was, she was.
Mr. Wheeler. At any rate, she only worked for you 3 months?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Three months in 1920.
Mr. Russell. She also represented Gerhart Eisler when he was
questioned during the war. That was not an immigration case.
Mr. LowENTHAL. I read in the paper she had been his counsel.
Mr. Wheeler. The fact she worked in his office 3 months in 1920,
to me is perfectly ridiculous to intimate
Mr. Russell. I am merely asking questions. His explanations go
in the record.
Mr. Wheeler. I understand that. I am not criticizing you.
Mr. Russell. I will tell you this, Senator: You have been granted
more leeway in this hearing than any other attorney.
Mr. Wheeler. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. LowENTHAL. Mr. Chairman, if Mrs. King was in ray office
3 months 30 years ago, and if Mr. Pressman is accused of something,
or Mr. Hiss is accused of something, who were much more recently
members of prominent Wall Street law offices, what happens to those
offices and their clients? What happens to Justice Holmes? I remem-
ber, when I was in law school, getting the law clerkship to Justice
Holmes was a tremendous compliment. Could Justice Oliver Wendell
Holmes, who lived a year with this man, be blasted for that?
Mr. Russell. Who recommended Carol Weiss King to you?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I don't have any idea.
Mr. Russell. Did you employ her yourself?
2982 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. LowENTHAL. I doii't have any idea. I may very well have
approved her employment; I don't recall. Durmg the period she was
there, I was away from the office for about a year or two on some
large business affairs. I was almost never in the office. I didn't have
the time. I would be perfectly willmg to have the record show I
recommended her employment, but I wouldn't laiow. I want to
make it very clear, Mr. Chairman, I make no criticism of Mrs. King
at all. I have never heard anything to indicate that she is a Com-
munist or that she has done anything unethical as a lawyer or as a
citizen.
Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Robert O. Litchfield?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Yes.
Mr. Russell. Did he ever work for you?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No ; I don't thmk so.
Mr. Russell. Did he ever distribute any Hterature for you?
Mr. LowENTHAL. He might have taken some of our reports and
so on,
Mr. Russell. I am not spealdng of reports. This hterature criti-
cized the FBL
Mr. LowENTHAL. I was in disagreement with the FBI on wire
tapping and things of that kind, and still am in disagreement with
them on that and other things in which I think the interests of the
public could be better served. I am pretty well known in Washing-
ton, and many people would pass on my views. If there is anything
of this sort your records show that is correct, I am wilHng to have it
put on the record and I will accept it.
Mr. Russell. Do you recall whether you ever paid him any sums
of money for distributing literature?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No. I never paid anybody any money for dis-
tributing anything, so far as I can recollect.
Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Mary Jane Keeney?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I am.
Mr. Russell. Did you ever endeavor to assist her to secure a pass-
port for travel to Japan?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No. I couldn't have. I would have nothing to
do with such things.
Mr. Russell. Did David Wahl ever discuss Mary Jane Keeney
with you and her inability to secure a passport?
Mr. LowENTHAL. He may have. I don't recollect.
Mr. Russell. Did you tell liim you would see Secretary of War
Patterson about securing a passport for Mary Jane Keeney?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Certainly not. How would I come to say sucn
a thing? Was she ever employed under me in any capacity? Would
your records show?
Mr. Russell. I couldn't tell you. Are you acquainted with
Nathan Witt?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I am.
Mr. Russell. Do you recall how you met him?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I met him in Washington.
Mr. Russell. Did you ever recommend liim for a Govenunent
position, or did he ever recommend you?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I wouldu't recollect. Again, if you have any-
thing on it, I will accept it.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2983
Mr. Wheeler. You have never recommended him for a position?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No. Wliat woukl I have to do with that? As
to his recommending me, I wouldn't laiow. I will bet a dollar a
great many people have recommended me for all sorts of things I
have never heard of, because two or three people think well of me.
Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Abraham J. Isserman, one
of the attorneys who represented the 11 convicted Communists?
Mr. LowENTHAL. If I am, I certainly have not seen him for many
years; but, whether I met him as a lawyer, I have met many lawyers.
Mr. Moulder. Is he a lawyer?
Mr. LowENTHAL. He said he represented these people, I wouldn't
want to say I did or didn't.
Mr. Velde. You don't recollect?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No ; I don't recollect. I can't be sure of those
things.
Mr. Russell. Have you consulted with him recently?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Mr. Isserman?
Mr. Russell. Yes; regarding the appeal of the conviction of the 11
Communist leaders.
Mr. LowENTHAL. I havcu't seen anyone by the name of Isserman
in many years, if ever; and nobody has consulted me about the appeal
of the Communists. That is one thing I have not been consulted on.
I have been consulted about thousands of other things. If somebody
met me on the street and said something about it, I don't remember,
Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with John Abt?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Ycs.
Mr. Russell. How did you meet him?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I think he was in Washington years ago. How
I met liim, I don't know. Was he connected with a committee on
the Hm?
Mr. Russell. No.
Mr. LowENTHAL. Was he connected with the Government in any
way?
Mr. Russell. Yes.
Mr. LowENTHAL. I dou't recall how I met liim.
Mr. Wheeler. You never had any close relations with him?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No. What kind of close relations would I have
with a, man who was not working on the Hill? It is a kind of ab-
surdity.
Mr. Moulder. Just answer the questions and we will save a lot of
time.
Mr. LowENTHAL. I am sorry.
Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Ruth Weyand, an attorney
with the National Labor Relations Board?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I liavc no recollection.
Mr. Russell. You didn't meet her while you were in the Nationa.l
Lawyers' Guild?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I Hcvcr went to any meetings of the National
Lawyers' Guild, as far as I can remember.
Mr. Russell. Have you ever represented the Amtorg Tradirg
Corporation?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No.
Mr. Russell. The Soviet Purchasing Commission?
67052— 50— pt. 2 10
2984 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Mr. LOWENTHAL. No.
Mr. Russell. The Four-Continent Book Corp.?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No. What?
Mr. Russell. Four-Continent Book Corp.
Mr. Lowenthal. No, but if you are through with this line of ques-
tions I would like to make a comment. One of the largest banks in
the United States years ago, I understood, was banker for Amtorg,
and one of the largest law firms in the United States was their counsel.
No one would dream of suggesting there was anything wrong with
them.
Mr. Russell. I have no further questions.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Velde?
Mr. Velde. No questions.
Mr. Wheeler. Are there any statements that Dondero brought out
that have not been answered?
Mr. Russell. I can ask you the other names. Bjorne Hailing,
secretary-treasurer of the California CIO Council.
Mr. Lowenthal. I might have met him, but I don't remember.
If he was connected with some labor organization I may have met him.
Mr. Wheeler. In California?
Mr. Lowenthal. I can't say no, because I w^ould rather have the
record show if he was a labor man I probably did meet him.
Mr. Moulder. If you knew him, your acquaintance was very
casual?
Mr. Lowenthal. I don't think I knew him very well.
Mr. Russell. Shad Poller.
Mr. Lowenthal. Yes. He was Rabbi Wise's son-in-law. I met
him on many occasions, though not in recent years.
Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Thomas I. Emerson?
Mr. Lowenthal. I met him some years ago.
Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Al Bernstem?
Mr. Lowenthal. According to this thing in the record, he had
worked for our Senate committee. Whether he worked on our pay-
roll or was loaned to us by some other Government organization, I
wouldn't know. If he did work for us, it would have been in a very
minor capacity, very minor.
Mr. Russell. Have you had any recent association with him?
Mr. Lowenthal. I wouldn't know how many years it is since I
have seen him, but it must be many years, unless I passed liim on the
street and forgot it.
Mr. Russell. I have no further questions.
Mr. Lowenthal. May I say this. I will try to make it very brief.
In the course of 38 years I have met tens of thousands of people, and
worked with them, too. I have dealt w^th many organizations. I
think if you take it in proportion to the sum total of what I have been
engaged in, all these questions, even if the answer w^as "Yes" to
them — and as far as I am concerned they can all be "Yes" if your
records show that-^wouldn't amount to a hill of beans in proportion.
Mr. Moulder. But you have given your answers to the best of
your recollection?
Mr. Lowenthal. The best I can.
Mr. Russell. Do you know Earl Browder?
Mr. Lowenthal. Not that I recollect. I once heard him on the
radio, and I think that is the only time I ever heard his voice.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2985
Mr. Russell. Do you know Roy Hudson?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I might have met liim. I don't recall.
Mr. Russell. Would you recall if you ever met him in Pliiladelphia
along with Earl Browder?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No. The times I have been in Pliiladelphia
have been times of national conventions, except some financial busi-
ness I have been there on when I had some cases.
Mr. Wheeler. But you never met him with Earl Browder or
anybody else that you recall?
Mr. LowENTHAL. No.
Mr. Moulder. Anything further?
Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Helen Hornstein?
Mr. LowENTHAL. Helen Hornstein was a Kansas City girl ap-
pointed to be my secretary in Germany, and arrived there after I left.
Mr. Russell. Did you request that she be appointed your secre-
tary?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I believc her name was put in with my approval.
From all I have ever loiown of her, she is O. K. I never worked
with her on anything in any Government job. I don't laiow what
her past was at this moment. She was to come over as my secretary,
but she got there after I left.
Mr. Moulder. That was an assignment by the Civil Service Com-
mission?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I supposc so. I don't remember the details.
Mr. Russell. Do you recall if you met her through David Wahl?
Mr. LowENTHAL. I might have.
Mr. Russell. She at one time was his secretary?
Mr. LowENTHAL. That might have been. I don't remember.
Mr. Moulder. The committee will stand in recess.
(Thereupon, at 12:55 p. m., the subcommittee adjourned.)
APPENDIX
For the purposes of reference, we append herewith information from
the files of the Committee on Un-American Activities regardmg the
Communist record and activities of some of the persons mentioned
herein :
John J. Abt. — Miss EHzabeth Bentley, a self-confessed Commu-
nist agent and courier, m sworn testimony before the Committee on
Un-American Activities on July 31, 1948, identified John Abt as a
member of the Communist Party, in charge of a secret party group
operating in Washington. On August 3, 1948, Whittaker Chambers,
a self-confessed Communist espionage agent, in sworn testimony before
the Committee on Un-American Activities, identified John Abt as the
leader of an underground group of the Communist Party operating in
Washington, D. C. On August 24, 1948, Louis F. Budenz, former
managmg editor of the Daily Worker and former member of the
National Committee of the Communist Party, U. S. A., testified before
the Committee on Un-American Activities that he knew John Abt as
a member of the Communist Party. On August 28, 1950, in sworn
testimony before the Committee on Un-American Activities, Lee
Pressman, a self-confessed former Communist, identified John Abt
as a member, along with himself, of the Communist group in Wash-
ington, D. C., which was composed of persons employed by the
United States Government.
On August 20, 1948, and again on September 1, 1950, Abt appeared
before the Committee on Un-American Activities and was given an
opportunity to affirm or deny the charges which had been made
against him. Upon both occasions, he refused to answer questions
on grounds of self-incrimination.
Jessica Ware Abt, the wife of John Abt, is the former wife of Harold
Ware (deceased) . Ware was head of the Communist group in Wash-
ington, of which John Abt was a member. Jessica Abt was at one
time an employee of the Soviet Embassy and is at present an editor
of the Communist propaganda magazine Soviet Russia Today.
Mr. Abt has frequently contributed to the magazine Soviet Russia
Today, and has been associated with the following Communist-front
organizations: National Lawyers Guild, Civil Rights Congress, and
American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born. Wlien he
testified before the committee on August 20, 1948, Mr. Abt was a paid
employee of the Progressive Party of America.
Louise Berman (formerly Louise Bransten). — During the hearings
regarding Communist infiltration of the motion-picture industry in
October 1947 before the Committee on Un-American Activities,
Louise Berman was identified as a native of Berkeley, Calif., and an
heiress to a considerable fortune. It was also brought out that Mrs.
Berman is the former wife of Richard Bransten (also kno^^^l as Bruce
Minton), who was formerly o\vner of New Masses, a Communist
2987
2988 COIMINIUNISM IX THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
publication. She is presently married to Lionel Berman of New York
City, a member of the National Committee of the Commimist Party.
Various activities and interests m the Communist Party and its
front organizations participated in by Mrs. Berman were described
as having included a loan which she made in the amount of $50,000
to the Daily People's World, west-coast organ of the Communist
Party, a contribution of $6,000 to the American-Russian Institute,
and a contribution of $10,000 to the California Labor School. She
was also a contributor to the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee.
All of these organizations have been cited as Communist fronts.
The home of Louise Berman (then Bransten) was described as a
meeting place of Communists and Communist sympathizers in the
vicinity of San Francisco, Many social affairs were given in her home
also for the purpose of entertaining and bringing together Com-
munist Party members, including members of Communist espionage
rings. She was in contact with several persons who were employed
by the Soviet Government, including Vassili Zublin, of the Soviet
Embassy in Washington, D. C; Stepan Apresian and Peter Ivanov,
of the Soviet consulate in San Francisco; Gregory Kheifets and V.
V. Pastoev, of the Soviet consulate in Los Angeles, and Dmitri
Manuilsky, a Communist leader of the Ukraine who was a member
of . a three-man board which functioned as the Communist Inter-
national during World War II.
On two occasions, September 20, 1948, and November 7, 1949,
Mrs. Berman, in appearances before the committee, declined to answer
questions regarding her activities and associations on the ground of
self-incrimination.
Joseph R. Brodsky (deceased). — The Daily Worker, official news-
paper of the Communist Party, in reporting the death of Joseph R.
Brodsky on July 30, 1947, described him as a charter member of the
Communist Party.
Benjamin Gitlow, former member of the political committee of the
Communist Party, U. S. A., and its candidate for Vice President of
the United States during the national elections of 1944, testified before
the Special Committee on Un-American Activities on September 7,
1939, as follows:
Mr. Brodsky was a member of the Communist Party, holding a position of the
highest confidence. He was not only the party's main legal adviser but he'was a
party member who handled confidential matters and money matters for us
continuously. * * * We had many meetings of our political committee in
his office, and Brodsky was very often present at the most important and con-
fidential meetings of the party.
Mr. Brodsky was associated with the following Communist-front
organizations: National Lawyers Guild, International Juridical Asso-
ciation, International Labor Defense, International Workers Order,
Workers School, Committee to Free Earl Browder, People's Radio
Foundation, and the American Committee for Struggle Against War.
Henry Collins. — According to the testimony of Wliittaker
Chambers before the committee on August 3, 1948, Henry Collins
was a member of the underground Communist "apparatus" which
had been organized by Harold Ware. Chambers stated that while
acting as a courier for the Communist underground he had met with
the members of this "apparatus" at the home of Henry Collins, which
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2989
was located at St. Matthews Court in Washington, D. C. Further,
Chambers testified that the Communist Party dues of this group were
handed over to him by Henry Collins, who was treasurer.
Henry Collins was subpenaed before the Committee on Un-American
Activities on August 11, 1948. At the time of his appearance, he
identified himself as executive director of the American Russian
Institute, an organization cited as subversive by the Committee on
Un-American Activities and Attorney General Tom Clark. ^Yhen
interrogated concerning his alleged activities in the underground
Communist cell, Collins refused to answer pertinent questions on the
ground of self-incrimination.
Bartley C. Crum. — Bartley C. Crum was one of the attorneys
for the 10 Hollyw^ood Communists who appeared before the Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities in 1947, all of whom refused to
answer questions regarding their Communist affiliations.
The Daily Worker of March 18, 1945, carried a statement signed
by Mr. Crum and numerous other individuals which was issued by
the National Federation for Constitutional Liberties and hailed the
granting of Army commissions to Connnunists. The Attorney
General has since designated this organization as Communist and
subversive. Two years later, on ^March 15, 1947, the Daily Worker
listed Mr. Crum as one of the signers of a protest against outlawing
the Communist party.
Mr. Crum appeared as a speaker before the American Russian
Institute in early June 1948. This organization has been cited as
Communist and subversive by the Attorney General. It features
pro-Soviet speakers and literature.
Mr. Crum was a sponsor of the American Youth for Democracy,
the successor to the Young Communist League, in 1943 and 1944.
These organizations have been repeatedly designated as the official
youth organizations of the Communist Party.
In 1947, Bartley Crum was a sponsor of the California Labor School,
the official educational institution of the Communist Party in the
State of California. In 1948, he was listed as a member of its board of
directors, as well as a sponsor.
Communist book shops, organizations, and publications are highly
scrupulous concerning the books they endorse, exercising continuous
vigilance against approving any w^ork deviating from the official party
line. Conmiunist book shops throughout the country have promoted
Bartley C. Crum's book Behind the Silken Curtain. It was favorably
reviewed by Albert Kahn, a leading Communist, in the Worker of
June 15, 1947. It was also endorsed by Youth for July-August 1947,
page 24, which is the official organ of the American Youth for Democ-
racy, as well as by the Communist weekly New Masses, for June 24,
1947. It was "selected" by the Book Find Club, which promotes
pro-Communist literature.
Immediately upon the close of World War II, the Communist
propaganda machine launched the National Committee to Win the
Peace, of which Bartley C. Crum was vice chairman and sponsor in
1946 and 1947. This organization joined with another front organiza-
tion, the Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy, in a con-
ference held in San Francisco on October 18-20, 1946, to influence
American policy in behalf of the Chinese Communists. Mr. Crum was
2990 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
also a sponsor of the latter organization. Both the National Com-
mittee to Win the Peace and the Committee for a Democratic Far
Eastern Policy have been cited as communistic.
In 1943, Bartley C. Crum was president of the San Francisco
Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild, of which he has been a vice
president since 1945. In a report issued by the Committee on Un-
American Activities on September 17, 1950, this organization was
characterized as the "legal bulwark of the Communist Party." ^
Among other Communist-front organizations with which Mr. Crum
has been associated are the following: Veterans of the Abraham
Lincoln Brigade, American Slav Congress, American Committee for
Spanish Freedom, Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee, and the
American Committee of Jewish Writers, Artists, and Scientists.
Thomas I. Emerson. — Mr. Emerson, a law professor at Yale Uni-
versity, was elected president of the National Lawyers Guild at its
national convention in New York City in May 1950. Thomas I.
Emerson has been associated w^th the guild since its inception and
served on the guild's executive board during its first year, 1937. He
was also a member of the national committee of the International
Juridical Association, a Communist front, dm^ing its existence.
The records of the Committee on Un-American Activities show that
Thomas I. Emerson, in addition to the National Lawyers Guild, has
associated with such groups as the Civil Rights Congress, Jefferson
School of Social Science, Southern Conference for Human Welfare,
and the National Council of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions, all of
which have been cited as Communist fronts.
Simon W. Gerson. — According to the records, files, and publica-
tions of the Committee on Un-American Activities, Simon W. Gerson
has held the following positions in the Communist Party, U. S. A.:
Member, New York State Committee of the Communist Party; mem-
ber, executive committee. Communist Party of New York; New York
State legislative director of the Communist Party; campaign director,
Communist Party in New York; resident executive committee mem-
ber, New York State Communist Party; member, Communist Party
election committee; Communist Party candidate for New York City
Council; Communist Party candidate for Congressman at Large, New
York; Communist Party legislative chairman. New York State.
On May 2, 1950, Simon W. Gerson appeared before the Committee
on Un-American Activities as a representative of the Communist
Party, U. S. A., in opposition to H. R. 3903 and H. R. 7595, bills to
outlaw certain un-American and subversive activities, in public hear-
ings before the Committee on Un-American Activities.
Alger Hiss. — On August 3, 1948, Whittakcr Chambers testified
before the Committee on Un-American Activities that he had been
associated with an underground group of the Communist Party
operating in Washington, D. C, and that Alger Hiss was a member
of that group. Subsequent to this initial disclosure, he identified
Alger Hiss as a Soviet espionage agent and a source of classified
Government documents which he. Chambers, transmitted to repre-
sentatives of the Soviet Union. To support his allegations. Chambers
produced a voluminous amount of classified Government documents
' Report on the National Lawyers' Guild, leqal bulwark of the Communist Party, released as a com-
mittee publication September 17, 1950, House Report No. 3123, September 21, 1950.
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2991
which he had obtained from Hiss. Hiss, throughout his appearances
before this committee, denied Communist Party membership. Hiss
was later called before a Federal grand jury in New York City and
categorically denied the charges made against him by Chambers.
On December 15, 1948, Hiss was indicted by a Federal grand jury
on two counts of perjury. His first trial, from May 31, 1949, to
July 8, 1949, resulted in a hung jury. His second trial began on
November 17, 1949, resulting in his conviction and sentencing to 5
years' imprisonment on each count of perjury, the terms to run
consecutively. Hiss is presently free on bail, pending the outcome
of his appeal.
Roy Hudson. — According to the records of the Committee on
Un-American Activities, Roy Hudson joined the Communist Party,
U. S. A., in 1930, and since then has held positions of top-flight
importance in that organization. He was a member of its central
committee, later Ivnown as its national committee, from 1935 until
1946, and for some years was a member of its ruling politbureau,
later known as the national board. He was trade-union secretary of
the party for a number of years while a member of the national
committee, and served as labor editor of the Daily Worker in 1944,
During 1944 Hudson was vice president of the Communist Political
Association and a member of its national election and political-
action committee. In 1935 he was a delegate to the Seventh Con-
gress of the Communist International. In 1939 he was a fraternal
delegate to the convention of the Mexican Communist Party.
Philip O. Keeney and Mary Jane Keeney. — Committee hearings
held on May 24-25 and June 9, 1949, exposed the associations of Mary
Jane Keeney and her husband, Philip O. Keeney, former United States
Government employees, with persons previously identified with Com-
munist espionage rings in the United States. The evidence revealed
also that Mrs. Keeney, on one occasion, actually served as a courier
for the Communist Party. The Keeneys have been denied passports
to foreign countries by the United States Government. At one time,
Philip O. Keeney attempted to leave the United States on the Polish
steamer Batory without a valid passport, which move had been
countenanced by Carol Weiss King, also mentioned herein. The
Batory was the ship used by Gerhart Eisler, international Communist
agent, to effect his escape from the United States.
Mrs. Keeney worked for the Board of Economic Warfare, later
knowTi as the Foreign Economic Administration, beginning in 1942.
She worked for the Allied Commission on Reparations in 1945 and
1946. After the FEA was blanketed into the State Department, she
was employed in the Interim Research and Policy Division of the
Office of Internal Security. In 1948, she became employed in the
Document Control Section of the United Nations Secretariat. Mrs.
Keeney refused to divulge the names of persons through whom she
obtained this latter employment, on the ground that she was instructed
by the director of the Bureau of Personnel of the United Nations not
to answer questions relating to operations within the United Nations.
Robert W. Kenny. — Kenny, attorney general of the State of
California during the years 1943-47 and president of the National
Lawyers Guild durmg the years 1940-48, has been associated with the
defense of a number of Communist cases. He was also one of the
2992 COMJSIUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
attorneys for the Hollywood 10. He sent greetings to the Biennial
National Conference of the International Labor Defense held April
4-6, 1941; this organization was cited by former Attorney General
Francis Biddle as the "legal arm of the Communist Party."
The American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born has
specialized in the legal defense of foreign-born Communists such as
Gerhart Eisler. Kenny was a sponsor of its national conference held
in Ohio on October 25-26, 1947, and again in 1950. He spoke in
behalf of Communists held for deportation, according to the Daily
People's World, Communist publication, dated MarcTi 8, 1948.
On repeated occasions, Mr. Kenny has attacked the trial of the 11
Communist leaders convicted for teaching and advocating the over-
throw of the Government of the United States by force and violence,
particularly as reported by the Daily People's World of July 22, 1948,
and the Worker of October 30, 1949.
He signed a statement in behalf of arrested leaders of the Com-
munist Party of Los Angeles, according to the Daily Worker of October
19, 1949, and the Daily People's World of November 7, 1949. State-
ments opposing the outlawing or restricting of the Communist Party
have been signed by Robert W. Kenny and have appeared frequently
in the Communist press. Mr. Kenny has opposed Government
loyalty procedures on various occasions.
On the eve of the 1947 May Day celebration, Pravda, the official
newspaper of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, hailed
Robert W. Kenny as a "friend of the Soviet Union in the United
States." Another Communist government, namely that of China,
selected Mr. Kenny to defend its legal interests, according to the
Daily People's World of Aprd 26, 1950, page 4.
Robert W. Kenny has a number of affiliations and associations
with Communist-front organizations. These include the American
Youth for Democracy (formerly known as the Young Communist
League), the National Committee to Win the Peace, of which he was
vice chairman, Civil Rights Congress, Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee
Committee, American Committee for Yugoslav Relief, Hollywood
League for Democratic Action, California Labor School, Lawyers
Committee on American Relations with Spain, Committee for a
Democratic Far Eastern Policy, and the American Slav Congress.
Carol Weiss King. — Carol Weiss King was the executive secre-
tary of the International Juridical Association and is a former law
partner of the late Joseph R. Brodsky. She has been a leading mem-
ber of the National Lawyers Guild. She has defended a long list of
Communists while acting in behalf of the International Labor Defense,
the "legal arm of the Communist Party"; its successor organization,
the Civil Rights Congress; and the American Committee for Protec-
tion of Foreign Born. She is the Communist Party's leading special-
ist in immigration cases.
Carol Weiss King has been actively associated with a number of
Communist-front organizations, outside of her legal interests, such as
the National Negro Congress, United American Spanish Aid Com-
mittee, Medical Bureau and North American Committee To Aid
Spanish Democracy, Congress of American Women, Council on African
Affairs, American Committee for Democracy and Intellectual Free-
dom, May Day Committee of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions,
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2993
New York City Conference Against War and Fascism, and the Na-
tional Committee To Aid Victims of German Fascism. In 1949, she
was candidate for municipal court justice on the Communist-supported
American Labor Party ticket.
Charles Kramer. — Miss Elizabeth Bentley, a former Soviet
espionage agent, in her testimony before the Committee on Un-
American Activities on July 31, 1948, identified Charles Kramer, also
known as Charles Krevitsky, as a member of "long standing" of a
Communist underground group operating in Washington, D. C. On
August 3, 1948, Mr. Whittaker Chambers, also a former Soviet espio-
nage agent, corroborated Miss Bentley's statement. This was further
corroborated by Lee Pressman, a confessed former Communist, who
appeared before the committee on August 28, 1950, and identified Mr.
Kramer as a member of the Communist cell in Washington, D. C,
which included John Abt and himself.
When subpenaed before the committee on August 12, 1948, and
again on September 1, 1950, Kramer refused to affirm or deny his
Communist Party membership on the ground of self-incrimination.
For the same reason, he refused to answer the following question:
Did you ever, during your service in the Government, furnish classified docu-
ments to any unauthorized people?
When testifying before the committee on August 12, 1948, Mr.
Kramer was employed by the Progressive Party, which has recently
been repudiated by Henry A. Wallace because of its anti-United States
of America policy on Korea.
Ring Lardner, Jr. — On October 30, 1947, Ring Lardner, Jr., ap-
peared as a witness before the Committee on Un-American Activities.
When asked whether he was then or had ever been a member of the
Communist Party, he refused to answer the question and was cited
for contempt of Congress by the House of Representatives. He was
indicted by a Federal grand jury on December 5, 1947. He was con-
victed by a Federal court and sentenced to serve 1 year in jail and
fined $1,000. He is now serving his sentence.
Mr. Lardner has been associated with numerous Communist and
Communist-front organizations, according to the files of the Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities, notably: Civil Rights Congress,
League of American Writers, Win the Peace Conference, New Masses,
Open Letter to American Liberals Regarding the Soviet Union, Amer-
ican Friends of Spanish Democracy, Spanish Refugee Appeal, Artists'
Front to Win the War, and the American Youth for Democracy.
Victor Perlo. — Perlo, in sworn testimony of Miss Elizabeth T.
Bentley and Whittaker Chambers, was identified as an underground
member of the Communist Party in Washington, D. C, during his
employment with the Federal Government. On July 31, 1948, Miss
Bentley testified that Perlo was the leader of an underground cell of
the Communist Party, the members of which supplied information
from the files of the Federal Government to her as a courier for the
Communist espionage apparatus operating in the United States. She
also testified that she first met Mr. Perlo in the apartment of John
Abt in New York City in March 1944.
Whittaker Chambers, who operated as a Soviet courier in Wash-
ington, D. C, prior to Elizabeth T. Bentley, testified on August 3,
2994 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
1948, that Victor Perlo was a member of the underground Communist
cell with which he had contact during his operations in Washington,
D. C.
On August 9, 1948, Victor Perlo was subpenaed before the Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities and questioned with respect to the
testimony of both Wliittaker Chambers and Elizabeth T. Bentley.
In response to all questions dealing with espionage activities and his
Communist associates, Perlo refused to answer on the grounds that
to do so would tend to incriminate him.
J. Peters (real name, R. Goldberger; aliases: J. V. Peters, Peter,
Alexander Goldberger, Goldman, Goldenweiss, Roberts, Steve Lapin,
Pete Stevens, Steve Miller, Isador Boorstein, Steven Lapur, Alexander
Stevens). — According to the testimony of Whittaker Chambers on
August 3, 1948, J. Peters was the head of the underground apparatus
of the Communist Party of the United States.
On August 24, 1948, Louis F. Budenz, former editor of the Com-
munist paper, the Daily Worker, testified before the committee that
he had known J. Peters as being very active in the Communist under-
ground and in charge of conspiratorial work for the party. Budenz
stated that J. Peters had told him that the conspiratorial apparatus
of the party was the most important apparatus.
On August 28, 1950, Lee Pressman identified J. Peters as a contact
who brought instructions and literature to the Communist cell in
Washington, D. C, from Communist Party headquarters in New
York.
J. Peters appeared before the committee on August 30, 1948, and
refused to testify regarding his underground activities or his Com-
munist affiliations on the ground of self-incrimination. At the con-
vention of the Progressive Party in Philadelphia in July 1948, J.
Peters was a member of the platform committee. In April 1949, J.
Peters was ordered deported from the United States.
Shad Polier. — This individual was a leading official of the Inter-
national Juridical Association and the National Lawyers Guild, both
of which have been cited as Communist fronts. He has supported
other Communist-front movements such as the American Friends of
Spanish Democracy and the Coordinating Committee to Lift the
Embargo.
Martin Popper. — Popper has been one of the leading figures of
the National Lawyers Guild, having been executive secretary from
1940 to 1945, vice president in 1947 and 1948, and its delegate to the
World Congress of International Democratic Lawyers in Prague in
1948. In 1947, he was selected as Western Hemisphere secretaiy and,
in 1948, as vice president of the International Association of Demo-
cratic Lawyers, an international Communist front. He has been an
attorney for Amtorg, the Soviet trading agency in the United States.
He represented the Chinese Communist Government in a legal suit,
having previously defended that government in articles appearing in
the Daily Worker of August 17, 1945; Far East Spotlight, December
1949-January 1950, page 4; and Daily Compass, January 2, 1950.
Mr. Popper has been associated with a number of other Communist-
front organizations, such as the Committee for a Democratic Far
Eastern Policy, the World Peace Congress, American Committee for
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2995
Spanish Freedom, Civil Rights Congress, American Committee for
Protection of Foreign Born, National Negro Congress, Southern
Conference for Human Welfare, Council 'on African Affairs, Joint
Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee, and the Emergency Peace
Mobilization.
Lee Pressman. — On August 3, 1948, Whittaker Chambers, a
former Communist, testified before the Committee on Un-American
Activities that Lee Pressman had been a member of the underground
group of the Communist Party operating in Washington, D. C. The
latter was subpenaed before the committee on August 20, 1948, and
refused to affirm or deny Communist Party membership, on grounds
of self-incrimination. Mr. Pressman testified again before the Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities on August 28, 1950, and admitted
that he had been a member of the Communist Party, together with
John J. Abt, Nathan Witt, and Charles Kramer.
Pressman was a member of the National Lawyers Guild and the
International Juridical Association.
Abraham George Silverman. — In testimony of Miss Elizabeth T.
Bentley before the committee on July 31, 1948, she named Abraham
George Silverman as having been a member of a Communist under-
ground apparatus which she knew as the Silvermaster group, which
was composed of Government employees and officials in Washington,
D. C, and which supplied information from the files of the Federal
Government to agents of the Soviet Union. Miss Bentley stated that
during the period from 1941-44 she had been a courier for the Commu-
nist underground, operating as contact between this and other similar
groups and Soviet espionage agents, and that in this capacity she had
obtamed voluminous secret and confidential information.
On both August 12, 1948, and August 31, 1950, in testimony before
the committee, Silverman refused to answer questions regarding these
activities on the ground of self-incrimination.
Nathan Gregory Silvermaster. — According to testimony of
Miss Elizabeth T. Bentley on July 31, 1948, Nathan Gregory Silver-
master was a member and the leader of a Communist underground
apparatus known as the Silvermaster group, which was composed of
Government employees and officials in Washington, D. C, and which
supplied information from the files of the Federal Government to
agents of the Soviet Union. Miss Bentley stated that during the
period from 1941-44 she had been a courier for the Communist under-
ground, and that in this capacity she had obtained secret and con-
fidential information, together with the Communist Party dues, from
Silvermaster and other members of the Silvermaster group.
Miss Bentley stated that her contact with Silvermaster had been
established by Jacob Golos, who before his death was a leader of the
Soviet espionage network operating in the United States.
Silvermaster was subpenaed before the Committee on Un-American
Activities on August 4, 1948, and given the opportmiity to affirm or
deny the testimony of Elizabeth T. Bentley. Instead of doing either,
he refused to answer all questions relating to his activities or associa-
tions on the ground of self-incrimination.
2996 COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
Harold Ware. — In testimony before the committee on August 3,
1948, Whittaker Chambers named Harold Ware, one of the sons of
Mother Ella Reeve Bloor,' charter member of the Communist Party,
as having been the leader of one of the secret underground Communist
cells in Washington, D. C, prior to his death in the early 1930's.
According to this testimony of Chambers, some of the persons he
knew to be members of this group were: Harold Ware, Nathan Witt,
John Abt, Lee Pressman, Alger Hiss, Donald Hiss, Henry H. Collins,
Charles Kramer (Ivrevitsky), and Victor Perlo. Chambers stated
that the original purpose of this group was the Communist infiltration
of the United States Government, but that espionage was certainly
one of its eventual objectives. Fm-ther, Chambers informed the
committee that a violin studio of Helen Ware, a sister of Harold Ware,
was used as a rendezvous for members of this underground Communist
group.
Nathan Witt, John Abt, Henry H. Collins, Charles Kramer, and
Victor Perlo refused to confirm or deny membership in the Communist
Party on the ground of self-incrimination, and Alger and Donald
Hiss denied Communist Party membership. Lee Pressman, after
first refusing to testify regarding this activity, later did admit, in
testimony printed in this volume, that he had been recruited into a
Communist cell while employed by the Department of Agriculture.
George Shaw Wheeler. — -Wheeler had been the subject of loyalty
investigations by the Civil Service Commission and security agencies
for a number of years during his employment with the Department
of Labor, the War Production Board, the Board of Economic War-
fare (later known as the Foreign Economic Administration), and
finally with the American Military Government in Germany. The
Civil Service Commission found him ineligible for employment on
January 2, 1945, on the basis of the reports of Government security
agencies. Under questioning, he admitted his connection with the
Communist-front organizations, American League for Peace and
Democracy, and the Washington Committee for Aid to China.
On October 29, 1945, Mr. Wheeler appealed his case to the Civil
Service Commission and, as a result of a subsequent hearing on the
matter, Mr. Wheeler was cleared. Investigations in 1946 and 1947
again resulted in his clearance. He was separated from the payroll
of the American military government in Germany in 1947 because of a
"reduction in force." Immediately thereafter, he became an instruc-
tor in economics at the Technische Hochschule (Technical High
School) in Communist Prague. In April 1950, he appealed for asylum
in Communist Czechoslovakia. The Prague News Letter for April
14, 1950, carries an elaborate statement which George Shaw Wheeler
issued to the press in protest against the alleged "brutal and unlau'ful
treatment by the American occupation authorities in western Ger-
many of * * * 58 Czechoslovak citizens," from which we quote
in part:
My activity in carrying out official American policy (in Germany) encountered
constantly greater obstacles which grew out of the initiation of the cold war by
Wall Street and the American warmongers. * * * I had a chance to see the
disgusting hypocrisy much more clearly than I saw it at that time.
One of the greatest frauds in American policy is the Marshall plan. * * *
Or let us take the Atlantic Pact. * * * What is it actually? An aggressive
pact against the Soviet Union and the people's democracies. * * *
COMMUNISM IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 2997
Another fraudulent act of American monopoly capital is the so-called aid to
backward countries. This "unselfish" aid is in fact nothing but another means of
inhuman exploitation of the peace-loving colonial and semicolonial peoples and a
means for the murdering of hundreds and thousands of fighters for freedom against
their oppressors. * * *
To the bottom of my soul I feel ashamed of the crude lies and slanders about
events and conditions in Czechoslovakia broadcast by the Voice of America, the
voice of their America but not my America. * * t:
I came to Czechoslovakia in November 1947 to study and get to know the
structure of a planned economy. * * * And it was in Czechoslovakia that I
also got to know real democracy.
INDEX
Page
Abbott, Jack 2944
Abraham Lincoln School for Democracy 2890
Abrams, Caroline (Mrs. Len D. Cowe) 2899
Abt, Jessica Ware (Mrs. John Jacob) 2958, 2987
Abt, John Jacob 2853, 2870, 2876, 2879, 2892, 2926-2930,
2939, 2944, 2945, 2949, 2950-2958, 2983, 2987, 2993, 2995, 2996
Adler, Solomon (Schlomer; Sol) 2916-2918, 2933, 2944
Agricultural Adjustment Administration 2848,
2849, 2852, 2853, 2857, 2858, 2925, 2926, 2928-2930, 2932, 2938-
2940, 2952-2955.
Agriculture Department 2845, 2850-2854, 2861,
2868, 2869, 2874, 2876, 2878, 2879, 2898, 2937, 2952, 2954, 2996
Agriculture, Secretary of 2870
Allied Commission on Reparations 2991
Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America 2952, 2977
American Airline 2897
American Bar Association 2969, 2979
American Civil Administration, Germany 2961
American Committee for Democracy and Intellectual Freedom 2992
American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born 2987, 2992, 2995
American Committee for Spanish Freedom 2990, 2995
American Committee for Struggle Against War 2988
American Committee for Yugoslav Relief 2992
American Committee of Jewish Writers, Artists, and Scientists 2990
American Federation of Labor 2884
American Friends of Spanish Democracy 2993, 2994
American Jewish Conference 2964
American Labor Party 2844, 2871, 2993
American League for Peace and Democracy 2931,2996
American Military Government in Germany 2996
American-Russian Institute 2988, 2989
American Slav Congress 2990, 2992
American Youth for Democracy 2989, 2992, 2993
Amter 2931
Amtorg Trading Co 2894, 2899, 2983, 2994
Apresian, Stepan 2988
Army Air Forces 2905, 2906, 2913, 2914
Army Air Forces, Control Division, Analysis and Plans 2905, 2912, 2915
Artists Front to Win the War 2993
Atlantic Pact . 2996
Austin 2980
Bankers Trust Building 2975
Barkley 2980
Bassie, Veet 2919
Batory (steamship) 2991
Behind the Silken Curtain (book) 2989
Bentley, Elizabeth T _ 2908
2917, 2920, 2921, 2939, 2940, 2943, 2955, 29"87", 2993-2995
Berman, Lionel 2988
Berman, Louise (formerly Louise Bransten; Mrs. Lionel Berman). 2987, 2988
Bernstein, Al 2984
Bernstein, Morris 2906
Bessie, Alvah 2940
Biberman , Herbert 294 1
Biddle, Francis 2992
2999
67052 — 50 — pt. 2 11
3000 INDEX
Page
Biennial National Conference of the International Labor Defense 2992
Bittner, Van A 2938
Bloor, Ella Reeve 2996
Blumberg, Albert E 2945
Board of Economic Warfare (later known as Foreign Economic Admin-
istration) 2960, 2962, 2969-2974, 2991, 2996
Book Find Club 2989
Boston English High School 2905
Boston University 2905
Bransten, Louise (also known as Louise Berman; Mrs. Lionel Berman) 2872,
2873, 2944
Bransten, Richard (alias Richard Brandstein, Bruce Minton) 2873,
2874, 2944, 2987
Bridges, Harry 2863, 2880, 2881, 2931, 2957
Brodsky, Joseph R 2979, 2988, 2992
Brooks, George W 2931
Browder, Earl 2931, 2945, 2984, 2985
Buchman, Sidney 2968
Budenz, Louis F 2926, 2935, 2987, 2994
Bureau of Personnel of the United Nations 2991
Burke, Gilda 2915
Bursler, Norman 29 19
Cahfornia CIO Council 2984
California Labor School 2988, 2989, 2992
Cammer, Harold I 2887, 2923, 2937, 2950
Canadian Trade Agreement 2905
Carey, Philip 2895
Case Against Archbishop Stepinac, the (book) 2944
Chadburn 2975
Chambers, -Whittaker 2845, 2846, 2858, 2866, 2881-2886, 2896, 2897, 2900,
2908, 2918, 2921, 2926, 2933, 2940, 2943, 2954, 2956, 2987-2991,
2993-2996.
Chi, Chao' Ting__ 2917, 2918
Chicago University 2952
Chinese Communist Government 2994
Chinese Stabilization Commission 2916, 2917
Chinese StabiHzation Fund 2906, 2907, 2916, 2917
Citizens United To AboUsh the Wood-Rankin Committee 2890
Civil Rights Congress 2891, 2892, 2987, 2990, 2992, 2993, 2995
Civil Service Commission 2873, 2962, 2970, 2971, 2973, 2985, 2996
Clark, Evans 2977
Clark Tom 2888, 2989, 2991
Clay, General 2961,2962
Coe, Frank 2919
Collins, Henry H 2853, 2858
2879, 2880, 2884, 2926, 2940, 2955, 2956, 2988, 2989, 2996
Columbia University ^qJq
Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy 2888,
2892, 2989, 2990, 2992, 2994
Committ<^e for First Amendment 2966
Committee for Industrial Organization. {See CIO.)
Committee to Free Earl Browder ^^cq
Communist International ^^ _x
Communist Party 2844, 2847, 2850-2854, 2856-2867, 2869-2873
Communist Party Election Committee 2990
Communist Party, Los Angeles oooi
Communist Party, Mexican - ^^^^
Communist Party, National Committee 2987, 2988
Communist Party, New York Ho
Communist Party, Soviet Union 2992
Communist Party, U. S. A 2994
Communist Party, Ware- Witt Group 2J33
Communist Party, Washington, D. C 2993, 2995
Communist Political Association oqoo
Congress of American Women 2992
INDEX 3001
Page
Congress of Industrial Organizations 2846,
2847, 2849, 2860-2963, 2865-2867, 2869, 2874, 2876, 2880,
2881, 2884, 2888, 2891, 2895, 2896, 2900, 2974.
Consumers Counsel Section 2927
Coordinating Committee to Lift the Embargo 2891, 2994
Coplon, Judy 2895
Cotten & Franklin 2978
Cotten, Joe 2978
Council on African Affairs 2992, 2995
Crowlev, Leo 2970
Crum, Bartlev 2941, 2965, 2966, 2989, 2990
Currie, Lauchlin 2906, 2907
Cvetic, Matthew 2892
Daily Compass 2994
Daily People's World 2988, 2992
Daily Worker 2987-2989, 2991, 2994
Davis, Chester 2953, 2954
Dee, Winchard 2843
Dennis, Gene 2887
Dondero, Congressman 2972
Donovan, William J 2925
Dunawav, Phillip 2966
Dyson, Colonel 2905
Eccles, General 2905
Eckhart 2882, 2883, 2886, 2897
Edwards, Willie 2934
Eisler, Gerhart 2981, 2991, 2992
Emergency Peace Mobilization 2995
Emerson, Ralph 2931
Emerson, Thomas I 2984, 2990
Far East Spotlight 2994
Farm Bureau Federation 2979
Farm Securitv Administration 2868
Federal Bureau of Investigation 2864-2867, 2883, 2892, 2920, 2921, 2982
Federal Employment Relief Administration 2848, 2849
Federal Reserve Board 2953
Field, J. W 2904
Fiering, Henry 2843
Filene, Edward A 2977
Film Audiences for Democracy 2891
Finn, Aubrey 2945
Finn, PauHne Lauber 2945
Fitzgerald, Edward 2943, 2957
Flato, Charles S 2957
Food and Tobacco Workers 2867
Foreign Economic Administration 2991
Four-Continent Book Corp 2984
Fox, A. Emanuel 2906, 2907, 2916, 2917
Frank, Jerome N 2848, 2849, 2860, 2927, 2928, 2931, 2953, 2954
Fur Workers Union 2867
Garrison, Lloyd 2928
Gerson, Simon W 2887, 2955, 2956, 2990
Gitlow, Benjamin 2988
Glasser, Harold 2933, 2943
Golos, Jacob 2939, 2995
Gould 2975
Graze, Gerald 2933, 2956
Gregg, Joseph B 2918
Gregg, Ruth (Mrs. Joseph B.) 2918
Gubichev, M 2895
Hailing, Bjorne 2984
Halperin, Maurice 2918, 2944, 2957, 2958
Hale, Captain 2979
Harris, Lem 2894
Harvard Law Review 2974
3002 INDEX
Page
Harvard Law School 2848, 2925, 2928, 2932
Harvard Law School Association of the Nation 2979
Harvard Law School Association of New York 2979
Harvard Placement Department 2971
Harvard School of Business Administration 2971
Harvard University 2905, 2906, 2927
Hubert [Hon. F. Edward] 2858
Hiss, Alger 2845,
2848, 2858, 2926, 2927, 2932, 2963, 2978, 2981, 2990, 2991, 2996
Hiss, Donald 2880, 2932, 2963, 2996
Hitler-Stalin Pact 2862
Hoover, Herbert 2898, 2978
Hollywood Hearings 2942
Hollywood League for Democratic Action 2992
Holmes, Justice 2981
Hopkins, Harry 2848, 2849, 2860
House Committee Investigating the Labor Board and Wagner Act. . 2926, 2934
Howe, Frederick _ _ 2939
H. R. 3123 2990
H. R. 3903 2990
H. R. 6250 2980
H. R. 7595 2990
Hornstein, Helen 2985
Hudson, Roy 2887, 2985, 2991
Hutchinson 2884
Ickes, Harold 2952
Inland Steel, Pittsburgh 2934
Institute of Social and Religious Research 2938
Interim Research and Policy Division of the Office of Internal Security. _ 2991
International Association of Democratic Lawyers 2994
International Juridical Association . 2888,
2900, 2978, 2979, 2988, 2990, 2992, 2994, 2995
International Labor Defense 2988, 2992
International Workers Order 2988
Isserman, Abraham J 2983
Ivanov, Peter " 2988
Jackson, Gardner 2954
Jaff e, Bernard 2903
Jefferson School of Social Science 2990
"Joe" 2898
Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee 2988, 2990, 2992, 2995
Justice Department 2865, 2957
Justice Department, Anti-Trust Division 2952
Kahn, Albert 2989
Kaiser 2980
Kaplan, Irving 2918, 2919, 2941, 2945
Katz, Gallagher & Margolis 2967
Keefe, Frank B 2931
Keeney, Mary Jane 2982, 2991
Keeney, PhiHp O 2991
Kennedy, J. Richard 2968
Kenny, Robert W 2967, 2991, 2992
Kheifets, Gregory 2988
Kierkes, John 2968
King, Carol Weiss 2889, 2982, 2991, 2992
Kintner, Robert 2931
Knox, Federal Judge ^- 2874
Kotikov, Colonel 2912, 2913
Kramer, Charles (see also Charles Krevitsky) 2870, 2876, 2879, 2886,
2927-2930, 2937-2950, 2953-2955, 2967, 2968, 2993, 2995, 2996
Krevitsky, Charles (see also Charles Kramer) 2993
Labor Department 2996
Labor Non-Partisan League 2899, 2900
La Foilette Civil Liberties Committee 2948
La Foilette, Robert M., Jr 2952
INDEX 3003
Page
Lamb, Ivan 2885
Lardner, Ring 2968
Lardner, Ring, Jr 2940, 2993
Latimer, Murray W 2904
Lauck, Jett 2938
Lawson, John Howard 2941
Lawyers Committee on American Relations with Spain 2891, 2992
Lawyers Guild. (See National Lawyers Guild.)
Lawj'ers League for Democratic Action 2992
League of American Writers 2993
Lee, Duncan 2957
Legislative Conference of the Civil Rights Congress 2890
Leibman, Leider & Witt 2929
Leichester, Robert T 2891
Leith, Alex 2843
Leland Stanford University 2905
Lend-lease program 2912
Lewis, John L 2866, 2884, 2899
Lippmann, Walter 2949, 2950
Litchfield, Robert O 2982
Lowenthal, Max 2900, 2940, 2942, 2959-2985
Mack, Julian W 2960
Madden 2931
Magdoif, Harry 2919, 2945, 2957
Manuilsky, Dmitri 2988
Margolis, Ben 2967
Maritime Board 2876
Marshall Plan 2996
May Day celebration, Pravda, 1947 2992
May Day Committee of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions 2992
McCarran, Senator 2980
McGoldrick, Joe 2970
McNarv, General 2961
McNutt, Paul 2961
Medical Bureau and North American Committee To Aid Spanish Democ-
racy 2992
Metropolitan Broadcasting Corp 2963
Mexican Embassv 2897
Mevers, Bennett 'M 2905
Miller, Harold A 2928
Miller, Robert R., Ill 2958
Mine. Mill and Smelter Workers 2867
Minnesota Alumni Association 2979
Minton, Bruce. (See Richard Bransten.)
Moran, Mark 2896
Murray, Philip 2846, 2860, 2863, 2865, 2866, 2974
National Commission on Law Observance and Enforcement 2960
National Committee To Aid Victims of German Fascism 2993
National Committee To Win the Peace 2989, 2990, 2992
National Council of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions 2990
National Federation for Constitutional Liberties 2891, 2989
National Industrial Recoverv Act 2925
National Labor Relations Board. 2881, 2925, 2926, 2928, 2930, 2934, 2937, 2983
National Lawyers Guild 2931, 2968, 2969, 2979,
2983, 2987, 2988, 2990, 2991, 2992, 2994, 2995
National Lawvers Guild, San Francisco Chapter 2990
National Negro Congress 2992, 2995
National Recovery Administration 2853
National Recovery Administration, Labor Advisory Board 2904
National Youth Administration 2938
Nationality Act 2980
Naval Intelligence Service 2908
New Deal 2898
New Masses 2987, 2989, 2993
New Republic 2941
New York Bar Association 2969, 2979
3004 INDEX
Page
New York City Conference Against War and Fascism 2993
New York City Council 2990
New York City Minnesota Alumni Association 2979
New York State Committee of the Communist Party 2990
New York University 2937
New York University, Washington Square College 2925
Newman, James Roy 2941
Nixon, Russ 2899
Novokov 2895
Office of Price Administration 2938
Office of Strategic Services 2958
Open Letter to American Liberals Regarding the Soviet Union 2993
Pan American [airlines] 2897
Park, Willard 2958
Pastoev, V. V 2988
Patterson, Secretary of War 2961, 2982
Pearson, Drew 2900
Pecora, Judge 2931, 2932
Pegler 2885
People's Radio Foundation 2988
Pepper, Claude 2890
Perlo, Katherine Wills (Mrs. Victor) 2932
Perlo, Nathan 2932
Perlo, Victor 2859, 2880, 2913, 2914, 2932, 2943, 2945, 2956, 2993, 2994, 2996
Peters, J. (real name, R. Goldberger; aliases: J. V. Peters, Peter, Alexander
Goldberger, Goldman, Goldenweiss, Roberts, Steve Lapin, Pete Stevens,
Steve Miller, Isador Boorstein, Steven Lapur, Alexander Stevens) 2855,
2859, 2861, 2884, 2896, 2898, 2930, 2934, 2940, 2954, 2994
Phillips, Cole 2886
Poller, Shad 2984, 2994
Pomerantz, Abraham 2895
Pomerantz, Edwina 2945
Pomerantz, William 2945
Popper, Martin 2943, 2968, 2994
Powers, Colonel 2905
Prague News Letter 2996
President's Mediation Commission 2960
Pressman, Lee 2843-
2901, 2919, 2920, 2926-2930, 2934, 2935, 2937-2940, 2944-
2947, 2949, 2953-2955, 2974-2976, 2981, 2987, 2993-2996
Price, Marv 2957
Progressive Party 2887, 2888, 2938, 2952, 2955, 2974, 2993
Progressive Party, Philadelphia 2994
Public Utilities Holding Company Act 2952
Public Works Administration 2952
Radcliffe College 2971
Railroad Retirement Board 2907. 2915
Railroad Retirement Board, Bureau of Research and Information Services _ 2904
Red Cross 2979
Reed, Clyde 2964
Remington, William Walter 2944, 2957
Resettlement Administration 2848, 2868, 2872, 2875
Ringe, Irma 2933
Riskin, Ben 2843
Riverside Drive 2860
Robeson, Paul 2872, 2873
Robinson, James 2906, 2907
Roosevelt, Franklin D 2898
Rosenberg 2972
Rosenberg, Allan 2919, 2971
Rosenblcitt, Philip 2885, 2896
Russian-American Industrial Corp 2976, 2977
Russian Purchasing Commission 2913
Russian Trade Union 2895
Rust Brothers 2896, 2900
INDEX 3005
Page
Sachers Restaurant, New York 2896
Saposs, David J 2931
Schimmel, Herbert _•_ _ _-_ 2942
School for Democracy 2890, 2891
Second President's Industrial Conference 2960
Securities and Exchange Commission : 2952
Senate Banli;inff and Currency Committee 2960
Senate Civil Liberties Committee 2938
Senate Committee on p]ducation and Labor 2938, 2952
:Senate Committee on Interstate Commerce •_ 2960, 2968, 2971
Senate Committee on War Mobilization __-__ 2943
Senate Judiciary Committee 2980, 2981
Senate Military Affairs Committee 2938
'Seventh Congress of the Communist International 2991
Shaughnessv 293 1
Shav^ Francis M 2954
'Shipstead 2980
Silverman, Abraham George 2880, 2903-2922, 2933, 2944, 2956, 2995
Sil vermaster Group 2995
Silvermaster, Nathan Gregory 2872,
2873, 2875, 2915, 2920, 2921, 2944, 2956, 2995
Smith, Edwin S 2928
Smith, Howard W 2930, 2931
Southard, Frank A 2906-2908
Southern Conference for Human Welfare 2990, 2995
Soviet Cojisulate, Los Angeles 2988
'Soviet Consulate, San Francisco 2988
■Soviet Embassy 2895, 2977, 2978, 2987, 2988
Soviet Government -_ 2988
Soviet Purchasing Commission J 2983, 2984
'Soviet Russia Today 2987
Spanish Civil War 2885
Spanish Refugee Appeal 2993
Spanish Republican Government 2882, 2885
Sparks, Nemmy 2945
•Stabilization Board of China 2918
■Stanford University 2906
State Department 2958
Steelworkers Organizing Committee 2846, 2849, 2860, 2884
Stern, Monroe 2941, 2944
■Stevens, Alexander (see also J. Peters) 2930, 2934, 2940, 2954
Stripling, Robert E 2846
Supreme Council of Russia .-, 2978
Supreme Court 2875
Taft-Hartlev Act :_: 2846, 2866, 2925
Taft-Walsh' Labor Board 1 2960
Tariff Commission : 2904, 2905, 2907, 2908
Taylor, William H 2918
Technische Hochschule (Technical High .School) , Prague 2996
Tenney, Helen . ^'l 2958
Treasury Department * 2915, 2933, 2968
Treasury Department, Division of Monetary Research 2905, 2906, 2908
Trotskyites ' 2874
Trumbo, Dalton 2941
Tugwell 2848, 2860
Twentieth Century Fund . 2977
TJllmann, William'Ludwig 2915, 2918, 2922
United American Spanish Aid Committee 2992
United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America 2935
United Mine Worlters . . 2938
United Nations 2847, 2899
United Nations Secretariat, Document Control Section 2991
TJnited Public Workers 2867
United States Air Forces, Air Staff, Materiel and Services 2904
tUnited States Army 2904, 2916
3006 INDEX
Page
United Steelworkers of America 2846
Untermeyer, Samuel 2981
Veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade 2990
Voice of America 2997
Wagner 2980
Wagner Act 2925, 2926, 2930
Wahl, David 2940-2942, 2962-2967, 2982, 2985
Wallace, Henry A 2849, 2860, 2928, 2954, 2974, 2993
Walter 2851
War Department . 2961, 2962
War Labor Policies Board 2960
War Manpower Commission 2976
War Production Board 2906, 2907, 2913, 2914, 2955, 2972, 2973, 2996
War Production Board, Labor Policy Committee 2900
War Refugee Board 2906
Ware, Harold 2850, 2852-2860, 2868, 2898, 2929, 2930,
2934, 2939, 2944, 2953, 2954, 2956, 2987, 2988, 2995, 2996
Ware, Helen 2859, 2860, 2996
Ware, Jessica Smith (Mrs. Harold; Jessica Abt) 2860, 2956
Washington Book Shop 2890, 2934, 2945
Washington Committee for Aid to China 2996
Washington Committee for Democratic Action 2890
Weintraub, David 2906, 2907
Wenchel 2953
Weyand, Ruth 2983
Wheeler, Burton K 2959, ?973, 2980
Wheeler, David Niven 2919, 2957
Wheeler, George Shaw 2919, 2972, 2973, 2996
White, Harry Dexter 2906, 2933, 2943
Wickersham Commission 2960, 2971
Wickersham, George W 2960
Willkie, Wendell 2981
Wilson, President 2960
Wilson, William B 2960
Win-the-Peace Conference 2890, 2891, 2993
Witt, Nathan (Witkowsky) 2853, 2869-2871, 2876, 2879, 2881, 2886, 2892,
2899, 2923-2937, 2939, 2940, 2945, 2949, 2966, 2982, 2984, 2995
Workers School 2988
Works Progress Adrninistration 2848, 2849, 2868, 2952
World Congress of International Democratic Lawyers in Prague 2994
World Federation of Trade Unions 2895
World Peace Congress 2994
World Tourists, Inc 2895
WQQW (radio station) ^ 2963
Yale University -... 2990
YMCA . 2979
Young Communist League 2989, 2992
Zublin, Vassili 2988
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