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Full text of "Hearings regarding Communist Espionage : hearings before the Committee on Un-American Activities, House of Representatives, Eighty-first Congress, first and second sessions"

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HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

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^HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-FIRST CONGRESS 

FIRST AND SECOND SESSIONS 



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NOVEMBER 8, DECEMBER 2, 1949 
FEBRUARY 27 AND MARCH 1, 1950 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 






UNITED STATES 








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COMMITTEE ON U^s'-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
United States House of Representatives 
JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman 
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania RICHARD M. NIXON, California 

BURR P. HARRISON, Virginia FRANCIS CASE, South Dakota 

JOHN MCSWEENEY, Ohio HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois 

MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York 

Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel 
LODis J. Russell, Senior Investigator 
BENJAMIN Mandel, Director of Research 
John W. Caerington, Clerk of Committee 

II 



CONTENTS 



November 8, 1949: 

Testimony of — Page 

Courtnev E. Owens 3539 

Max Bedacht 3542 

Dozenberg, Nicholas (statement of) 3540 

Dr. William Gregory Burtan 3556 

December 2, 1949: 

Testimony of William M. Disch 3564 

February 27, 1950: 

Testimony of John Loomis Sherman 3571 

March 1, 1950: 

Testimony of John Loomis Sherman 3585 

June 13, 1950: ^ 

Testimony^of Maxim Lieber 3599 

m 



HEABINGS EEGAKDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 



TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 1949 

United States House of Representatives, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. C. 

PUBLIC session 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10 : 30 a, m., in room 
226, Old House Office Building, Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) 
presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives John S. Wood and 
Morgan M. Moulder. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Louis 
J. Russell, senior investigator; Benjamin Mandel, director of re- 
search ; John W. Carrington, clerk ; and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. Let the subcommittee be in order, and let the record show 
that these hearings are being conducted by a subcommittee designated 
by the chairman, consisting of Mr. Moulder and Mr. Wood. 

Mr. Tavenner, Mr. Chairman, as you know, the committee at the 
present time is engaged in the preparation of a lengthy report in- 
volving the activities of numerous Soviet agents who have operated 
within the United States and other countries. As you also know, 
the staff has gathered a great deal of information relating to the 
general subject of espionage, and in order to place in the record 
information that has been obtained by the committee staff', the com- 
mittee has pursued the policy of calling before it various persons 
who have information regarding the subject of espionage, or who 
have been associated with persons known to have been engaged in 
espionage within the United States or in other countries. 

We desire first this morning to present one of the investigators to 
give the committee the result of certain investigations, and then we 
will present certain witnesses. 

Mr. Wood. Very well. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Mr. Owens. 

Mr. Wood. You solemnly swear the testimony you give the subcom- 
mittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Owens. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF COURTNEY E. OWENS 

Mr. Russell. Will you state your full name ? 
Mr. Owens. Courtney E. Owens. 

Mr. Russell. Are you employed as an investigator by the Com- 
mittee on Un-American Activities? 

3539 



3540 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE : 

Mr. O^VENS. I am. 

Mr. Russell. Did you have occasion to conduct an investigation in 
connection with the activities of one Nicholas Dozenberg? 

Mr. Owens. I did. 

Mr. Russell. Did you submit an investigative report based upon 
your investigation of Mr. Dozenberg ? 

Mr. Owens. I did. 

Mr. Russell. Based upon the investigative report which you sub- 
mitted to the committee, did you subsequently interview Mr. Dozen- 
berg and obtain from him an affidavit which, in general, verified the 
information contained in the investigative report submitted by you? 

Mr. Owens. That is right. 

Mr. Russell. Will you read the affidavit which was given to you 
by Mr. Dozenberg into the record? Before you begin, I understand 
the affidavit was submitted in Mr. Dizenbarg's own language ? 

Mr. Owens. That is true. It was prepared by Mr. Dozenberg in 
his own language and signed by him and given to the committee. 
[Reading:] 

Statement of Nicholas Dozenberg 

Nicholas Dozenberg was born in Riga, Latvia, on November 15, 1882. He was 
engaged in the activities of various Lettish worker's organizations, and later 
became active in the Socialist Party, mainly in the Lettish Worker's Club of 
the Socialist Party. In about 1921 or 1922, Dozenberg became the business 
manager of the Workers' Publishing Society and later became business manager 
of the Literature Department of the Workers Party of America, the early 
predecessor of the Communist Party of the United States. 

Dozenberg remained with these organizations in Chicago until 1925 or 1926, 
at which time Party headquarters were moved to New York City. Dozenberg 
handled the liquidation of the Party's assets in Chicago and arranged the trans- 
fer of its publications oflBce to New York. In the latter part of 1927 or the 
early part of 1928, the liead of Soviet military intelligence in the United States, 
one Alfred Tilton. recruited him into the Soviet military intelligence organiza- 
tion at a salary of $35 a week. 

Shortly after Dozenberg's first contact with Alfred Tilton, he learned that 
Tilton was living in New York under Canadian papers in the name of Joseph 
Paquett, P-a-q-u-e-t-t ; al.so, that later Tilton obtained another set of Canadian 
papers under the name of Martin. 

Alfred Tilton, on one occasion in New York City while Dozenberg was Veork- 
ing for him, advised Dozenberg that he had spent an entire night photostating 
plans of a Britisli warship Royal Oak which had been intercepted en route to 
Washington, D. C, from somewhere. Tilton received money for his expenses 
through seamen couriers whom he met in the office of Dr. Philip Rosenbleitt, 
R-o-s-e-n-b-l-e-i-t-t, a dentist in New York City. 

During 1928, Dozenberg became acquainted with Lydia Stahl, who was Tilton's 
assistant and an expert in photography. In addition to her activities as a 
photographer, the Stahl woman purchased all .sort of books on technical and 
industrial subjects, to be sent to the home office in Moscow. Stahl and Tilton 
used the photographic studios of Joseph Turin, T-u-r-i-n, in New York City 
for their work. Tilton had installed a large photostating machine in one of 
Turin's back rooms. The machine was opei"ated exclusively by Lydia Stahl. 

During the latter part of 1928 or the early part of 1929, an individual named 
Dick Mursin, M-u-r-s-i-n, arrived in New York City to be an assistant to one 
Mark Zilbert, who was soon to relieve Alfred Tilton. Mursin's other name was 
Boris Devyatkin, D-e-v-y-a-t-k-i-n, under which name he first establislied a 
cover or front for future activities by taking office space in the Wesson Travel 
Agency, where he was ostensibly employed in a real estate or insurance busi- 
ness. Shortly after Tilton's departure for the Soviet Union in early 1929. a 
Mark Zilbert arrived in the U. S. A. and took over, from Tilton, all activities 
as head of the Soviet intelligence apparatus. 

In the fall of 1929, Tilton requested Dozenberg to come to Moscow, on funds 
furnished by Tilton ; and was introduced to General Berzin, B-e-r-z-i-n, head of 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3541 

the Soviet military intelligence department. General Berzin asked Dozenberg 
to return to the United States for the purpose of assisting one Kirchenstein in 
setting up a cover for Soviet military intelligence activities in France. At the 
same time, Dozenberg was to do substantially the same in preparation of a 
cover for operations in Rumania. 

Tilton, prior to leaving this country, had made arrangements to obtain citizen- 
ship papers of a deceased American veteran named Frank Kleges, K-1-e-g-e-s, 
through an undertaker in Brooklyn. Kirchenstein, who had assumed the identity 
of Frank Kleges, established an office in New York City, and contacted with 
several export firms on the West Coast. A short time thereafter Kleges (Kirch- 
enstein) left for Paris, France. 

From 1931 on, Dozenberg traveled considerably on the continent of Euroi)e; 
in Russia, Germany, and in Rumania. After his return from Rumania, he 
established the American Rumanian Film Corporation under the laws of the 
State of New York, the offices of which were to be used as a front for Soviet 
military intelligence in Rumania. 

During the early part of 1933, Dozenberg was ordered to Moscow. The indi- 
viduals with whom he had become acquainted during the i)eriod from 1927 to 
1933, in addition to those already mentioned, were Albert Feierabend, a Lettish 
Communist from Boston ; Richard Bassow, agent in charge of military intelli- 
gence activities in Vienna ; and Robert Zelms, Z-e-l-_m-s, alias Elmston, whom 
Dozenberg had recommended for employment with the Soviet military intelli- 
gence in foreign countries. 

During the year 1933, while the negotiations were under way which led to 
recognition of the Soviet Union by the United States, Dozenberg was residing 
with his first wife in Moscow. During the latter part of 1933 or the early part 
of 1934, Dozenberg was instructed to go to China and establish a business cover 
for Soviet military intelligence activities in that country and against Japan. 
Dozenberg then proceeced to Peiping where he made arrangements to represent 
an American radio corporation in China, and where he met a Soviet agent who 
gave him 10,000 dollars in Chinese currency. Dozenberg then established the 
Amasia Sales Company in the British concession in Tientsin, China. Dozen- 
berg's time was solely occupied with running the affairs of the business in order 
to make satisfactory cover for Soviet military intelligence activities later on. 
In 1937, there came to Tientsin, China, a Joseph Freund, F-r-e-u-n-d, an Aus- 
trian by birth, to relieve Dozenberg, who was to return to Moscow. Dozenberg 
remained in Moscow four months, during which time he submitted a report on 
his business and commercial activities in China, and was instructed to endeavor 
to establish a similar business cover in the Philippine Islands. 

Dozenberg left Moscow in the middle of 1937. Upon his arrival in New York 
City he was given $8,000 by an agent. After making arrangements in this country 
to represent a motion-picture equipment corporation in the Philippine Islands he 
left for Manila. The difficulty of setting up a business cover in Manila was 
greater than had been expected. Dozenberg ran out of funds, and returned in 
July 1938 to Washington, D. C. 

In March 1939, Dozenberg was met by the same man whom he had met before, 
who gave him instructions to go to Moscow, and furnished him with $1,000 for 
living and travel expenses. 

Dozenberg was in Moscow for approximately three and one-half months. His 
former sui>eriors in the intelligence department were no longer there, and he 
dealt entirely with persons strange to him. He was requested to go to China. 
But when he indicated that it would take not less than $100,000 to set up or 
acquire a representative business concern, at that time, he was asked to return 
to the United States to establish a business cover for Soviet agents in the United 
States, which he refused to do. Subsequently, he was given the sum of $600 to 
cover travel costs, and told to return to the United States. To this day, it remains 
a mystery to Dozenberg as to why he was allowed to leave Moscow after his 
refusal to abide by their instructions. 

After this break, Dozenberg then went to Bend, Oreg., where he acquired a 
small grocery store during the latter part of October 1939. He was arrested on 
December 9, 1939, for obtaining a passport under false pretenses, and sentenced 
to serve a term of one year and a day on a plea of guilty, and was received at 
the Northeastern Penitentiary, Lewisburg, Pa., on May 22, 1940. 

He has been somewhat afraid that his break with the Soviets in 1939 would, 
sooner or later, result in dire consequences for him because of his association 
with the Soviet military intelligence organization. 



3542 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

I, Nicholas Dozenberg, hereby certify that I have read the above statement, 
and that to the best of my knowledge and belief it is substantially true and 
correct. 

(Signed) Nicholas Dozenberg. 

OCTOBEE 4, 1949. 

Mr. KussELL. Mr. Owens, at the time you interviewed Mr. Dozenberg 
he had previously been subpenaed by this committee, had he not? 

Mr. Owens. That is right. 

Mr. Russell. When you interviewed him he advised you he was too 
ill to appear in Washington, D, C. ; that is true, is it not? 

Mr. Owens. That is right. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Dozenberg also furnished you the names of other 
persons known to be engaged in espionage in the United States, which 
are not included in this statement ; is that right ? 

Mr. Owens. That is right. 

Mr. Russell. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Any questions, Mr. Moulder ? 

Mr. Moulder. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. That is all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Max Bedacht. 

Mr. Wood. Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this sub- 
committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF MAX BEDACHT 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bedacht, the committee desires your coopera- 
tion in making available to it some information relating to events and 
persons as to whom it already has considerable information. 

Will you please state your full name and present address ? 

Mr. Bedacht. My name is Max Bedacht, and I live in Frenchtown, 
N. J., rural route, or, rather, star route post office. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever lived at 3101 North Nordica Avenue, 
in Chicago, 111. ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes ; I had a home there. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you live there ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I believe from 1923 to 1928 or so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you used any name other than Max Bedacht 
at any time ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I have not. I have written sometimes under a pen 
name. 

Mr. Tavenner. What pen name did you use ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Oh, I wrote articles under the name of Thomas 
Minzer, one, I remember ; I believe Marshall. 

Mr. Tavenner. John Marshall ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I don't know the full name any more. That was 
about 30 years ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. John Braum? 

Mr. Bedacht. That is possible. That is my wife's maiden name, and 
it is possible I used that name. 

Mr. Tavenner. H. M. Sabath, S-a-b-a-t-h? 

Mr. Bedacht. I don't think I have ever written under that name. 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3543 

Mr. Tavenner. Could you have used that name in any dealings or 
any transactions of yours ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I can't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Bedacht? 

Mr. Bedacht. I was born October 13, 1883, in JNlunich, Germany. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized citzen of the United States ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you please state for the committee the official 
positions which you have held in the past in the Communist Party of 
the United States ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Almost everything up to secretary. I was never 
editor of the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Wood. Would you elevate your voice a little? We can't hear 
you up here. 

Mr. Bedacht. I said I held almost every position except that of 
editor of the Daily Worker at one time or another. I was district 
organizer at one time in Detroit. I was editor of a magazine for a 
while. 

Mr. Ta's^nner. "Wliat magazine? 

Mr. Bedacht. Well, what w^as it called, again? 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it the Communist? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes ; I was editor of that, too. The Communist was 
a forerunner of the other one. It was merged later into another one. 

INIr. Tavenner. Was it Political Affairs? 

Mr. Bedacht. No ; never. 

Mr. Ta^tenner. Name several of the higher positions that you held. 

Mr. Bedacht. Well, as I said, I was district organizer at one time 
in Chicago. I was the director of the agit-prop department, agita- 
tion and propaganda. I guess that is about the highest. 

Mr. Ta\"enner. Were you executive secretary for a period of time? 

Mr. Bedacht. I was at one time, for a few months, acting secretary. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. Of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes. 

]Mr. Tavenner. AVhere were your headquarters at that time? 

Mv. Bedacht. They were in New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you first become affiliated with the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Bedacht. Well, since I am 19 years old I have been a Socialist, 
and I have been in the Socialist movement, and I affiliated with the 
Communist Party when it w^as founded. I helped found it, estab- 
lish it. 

Mr. Taa-enner. I believe you have recently been expelled from the 
Communist Party : have you not ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. On what grounds did this expulsion take place? 

Mr. Bedacht. I don't know that I know myself, but, anyway, this 
committee is surely not a court of appeals against my expulsion, and 
my explanation for it would take quite a while, and you would have 
to listen to the other side, too. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will not go into that. It was the result of a fac- 
tional dispute within the party; is that substantially right? 

Mr. Bedacht. You may say so. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did that action take place ? 

65959 — 51 2 



3544 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Bedacht. I was expelled exactly a year ago ; on the 13th of Oc- 
tober last year it was dated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you, were you an official of the Commu- 
nist International at any time? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes, I was ; in Moscow, in the Communist Interna- 
tional, as delegate to the third congress and fourth congress. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you still adhere to the Communist beliefs? 

Mr. Bedacht. I most assuredly do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you had occasion to travel in countries out- 
side the United States since you first arrived in the United States 
from your native country ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Except as to countries going through to Russia and 
from Russia, I did not — —oh, yes. In 1037 I went to Spain with a 
committee of eight to the International Brigade in Spain. I think it 
was 1937. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it on business of the Communist Party that 
that trip took place? 

Mr. Bedacht. It was not. There were organizations that formed 
a relief committee, and the organization I was affiliated with and 
worked for, the International Workers Order, was affiliated with it, 
and out of the collections made some purchases were made of mate- 
rials to deliver to the Republican Army, and it was decided to send 
a delegation to deliver them, and I was one of the delegation. 

Mr. Tavenner. In addition to that trip to Spain, how many trips 
have you made out of the United States since your first arrival liere, 
and when ? - 

Mr. Bedacht. I don't know that I remember exactly. I was a.\ two 
congresses, I know that, and maybe one or two executive committee 
meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. Executive committees of what organization? 

Mr. Bedacht. Of the Communist International. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bedacht, do you know or have you ever known 
an individual by the name of Jacob Kirchenstein, also known as Frank 
Kleges ? 

Mr. Bedacht. The name does not sound familiar to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever acquainted with Anton Miller? 

Mr. Bedacht. Again, I cannot remember any such acquaintance. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me see if I can refresh your recollection with 
regard to Mr. Kirchenstein, Can you hear me plainly ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes; Kirchenstein. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Yes. Mr. Jacob Kirchenstein is alleged to have 
operated a military espionage organization at one time in London, 
England, using the cover of a trading organization known as Acros, 
A-c-r-o-s. This organization was exposed in 1927 after British 
authorities raided the Acros offices and the apartment of Anton Miller, 
who was Kirchenstein's assistant and a cipher clerk to the Soviet trade 
delegation in London. Does that not serve to refresh your recollec- 
tion regarding the name Kirchenstein ? 

]Mr. Bedacht. It refreshes my recollection to some disagreeable 
memories, but not to any person by the name of Kirchenstein. The 
fact my name was found there somehow, for what reason it was there 
I don't know, inspired some people to come to my house in Chicago 
and burn a cross in front of it when my family was alone, and that 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3545 

was a very disagreeable tiling, with four children and the house on the 
outsldrts of Chicago ; but I never knew or spoke to anybody by the 
name of Kirchenstein or Miller who was affiliated with or worked 
with any kind of military espionage. 

]Mr. Ta\'enner. I mentioned the cover name of Acros. 

Mr. Bedacht. I remember when it was raided by the British; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. It seems the correct spelling is Arcos, A-r-c-o-s. 
"Wliat do you know of that organization ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Only what I lead in the papers. It was, to my 
knowledge, an organization, a trade commission or something, to 
organize mututal trade between the Soviet Union and Britain. 

Mr. TA\Ti;NNER. Among the papers which the British authorities 
seized from Anton Miller in the raid in 1927 — papers which Miller 
unsuccessfully attempted to destroy — were lists of cover addresses in 
the United States. One of the addresses was "Max Bedacht, 3101 
North Nordica Avenue, Chicago, 111." Can you explain to the com- 
mittee how your name came to be included among those papers ? 

Mr, Bedacht. I cannot, and I must say it was an extremely bad 
cover address, under my name, because it covered nothing. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. Bedacht, have you ever been acquainted with an 
individual by the name of Albert Feierabend? 

Mr. Bedacht. I didn't get that. 

Mr. Tavenner. The name is spelled F-e-i-e-r-a-b-e-n-d. Albert 
Feierabend. 

Mr. Bedacht. I have heard that name. 

Mr. Tavenner. He was also known at variout times as Jacob Kreitz, 
K-r-e-i-t-z, or Ksavier Szpokas, S-z-p-o-k-a-s. 

Mr. Bedacht. I don't know whether the name I have in mind, 
Feierabend, is the same you are talking about, but the name is not 
unfamiliar. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. I show you a photostatic copy of a passport appli- 
cation filed on March 12, 1928, by one Albert Feierabend, and ask 
you to look at the picture on the second sheet. Possibly you will be 
able to identify him as the person you know. 

Mr. Bedacht. It looks like Jack Stachel to me, but it isn't. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now will you look at the last page entitled "Appli- 
cation for Extension and Amendment of Passport" and see if you can 
identify the woman whose picture appears there as Mrs. Emma Paul- 
ine Bleckschmidt Feierabend? 

Mr. Bedacht. I definitely don't know her. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, these photostats were obtained b}' 
subpena duces tecum from the Department of State. They include an 
approved passport application signed by Albert Feierabend, who rep- 
resented himself as a naturalized American citizen of Latvian descent 
and a resident of Boston, Mass.; attached is an oath of allegiance 
allegedly signed by Feierabend ; and an approved application for ex- 
tension and amendment of passport. I desire to introduce these papers 
in evidence and have them marked "Bedacht Exhibit 1." 

Mr. Wood. Let them be admitted. 

(The photostats above referred to, marked "Bedacht Exhibit 1," 
are filed in connection with this transcript.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bedacht, I hand you photostats of two passport 
applications filed with our State Department by one Jacob Kreitz, 



3546 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

who represents himself to be a naturalized x4.merican citizen of Lat- 
vian descent and a resident of New York City. One application is 
dated December 9, 1930, and the other is dated September 9, 1932. 
Can you identify the individual whose picture appears on the second 
sheet of each application ? 

Mr. Bedacht. No. I cannot remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, these photostats were obtained by 
subpena duces tecum from the State Department. I desire to offer 
them in evidence and ask that they be marked "Bedacht exhibit 2." 

Mr. Wood. Let them be admitted, but I did not understand whether 
he recognized the photographs or not. 

Mr. Bedacht. I do not remember ever having known this man. 

(The photostats above referred to, marked "Badacht Exhibit 2," are 
filed in connection with this transcript.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bedacht, I show you photostatic copy of a 
passport application dated September 12, 1930, and signed by an 
individual named Ksavier Augustus Szpokas, togetlier with photo- 
stat of application for renewal of passport, signed by the same name 
under date of September 19, 1932. Can you identify the individual 
whose photograph appears on the last sheet ? 

Mr. Bedacht. No. I do not know that man. They seem all to look 
alike to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, these applications for passport and 
passport renewal were likewise obtained by subpena from the State 
Department. I desire to offer them in evidence and ask that they be 
marked "Bedacht exhibit 3." 

Mr. Wood. Let them be admitted. 

(The photostats above referred to, marked "Badacht Exhibit 3," 
are filed in connection with this transcript.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bedacht, you have stated that the picture on 
each of these passport applications appears to be a i)icture of the same 
individual? 

Mr. Bedacht. They look alike to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, Albert Feierabend, alias Kreitz, 
alias Szpokas, was arrested in New York City on April 10, 1933, and 
subsequently pleaded guilty to a charge of passport fraud. He was 
fined $1,000 and placeclon probation for 2 years. 

Mr. Moulder. Is the witness acquainted with any of the persons 
whose names appear on the passports? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. He testified the name Feierabend was familiar 
to him, but the other names, of Kreitz and Szpokas, were not, and he 
was unable to identify the photographs. 

Mr. Wood. Let me ask you this question at this point: Have you 
ever had any acquaintance with anybody who went under the name 
of Feierabend ? 

Mr. Bedacht. No. The name I have heard. I cannot remember in 
what connection. 

Mr. Wood. But you never met the man who bore that name? 

Mr. Bedacht. This man, no; not to my knowledge. I have met 
many people in my life, and I could not swear I never met him, but to 
my recollection I never saw that man. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether your hearing of the name 
Feierabend was in connection with some Communist activity ? 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3547 

Mr. Bedacht. No; I couldn't say. The name sounds as if I liad 
heard it before. It is a German word. I have heard it often, and 
probably also somebody I knew at one time or another had that 
name ; but I cannot remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. This may refresh your recollection. Albert Feier- 
abend was arrested in 1933. He had just arrived from Europe, and 
he was found to be carrying $28,700 in United States currency. Do 
you recall anything regarding his arrest^ 

Mr. Bedacht. If he had left some of that money on my doorstep I 
might have remembered, but I certainly don't. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time of Mr. Feierabend's arrest, he was also 
found to be carrying a small white ribbon with an inscription read- 
ing as follows : 

July 18, 1930 #12C 

The bearer of this credential is thoroly trustworthy and should be given all 
possible support so that he may effectively accomplish the mission he is engaged 
in. 

Fraternally yours, 

(Signed) Max Bedacht 

(For the Secretariat). 

Mr. Bedacht. I still don't remember him. I have signed such rib- 
bons when they were presented to me, and that is that. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of the ribbon and ask 
you to examine it and see if that refreshes your recollection. 

Mr. Bedacht. It is my signature. 

Mr. Moulder. Did he say it is his signature ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer in evidence this photostatic copy 
of a ribbon, and I ask that it be marked "Bedacht Exhibit 4." 

Mr. Wood. Let it be admitted. 

(The photostat above referred to, marked "Bedacht Exhibit 4," 
is filed in connection with this transcript.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bedacht, that is your signature. What was the 
purpose of issuing that notation over your signature for the Secre- 
tariat ? 

Mr. Bedacht. When people were sent to represent the Party, let's 
say in the Comintern, they got a credential to be identified, and that 
is one of them. I had credentials like that. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, a person coming to the United 
States from a foreign country who is a member of the Communist 
Party would be given a credential somewhat similar to that? 

Mr. Bedacht. Not coming from a foreign country ; members of the 
party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Explain that a little more in detail. 

Mr. Bedacht. Members of the party, if they were delegated to rep- 
resent the party anywhere, then they were given a credential. This 
credential, if it was a question of representing the party across the 
sea, was a very little thing, while it may have been a more detailed 
document if it was for rei^resentation here in a convention or commit- 
tee. 

Mr. Moulder. ISIay I clarify my mind as to this exhibit 4, which has 
a certification which he says he signed. Who had this in his possession ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Albert Feierabend, at the time of his arrest. 



3548 HEARESJ-GS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Moulder. And that is the person this witness says he was not 
acquainted with at that time? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. "Will yon pursue that? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Mr. Bedacht, do you not recall now, after see- 
ing this certification or identification, more about Mr. Feierabend ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I do not. I still do not remember him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give the committee any information as to 
the purpose of the delivery of this particular certification on July 
18, 1930, to Mr. Fcierabend ? 

Mr. Bedacht. No. It was the period in which I was acting secretary, 
and by virtue of my position as secretary I signed it, but, as I said, I 
signed many. I do not know that I ever saw the man. I certainly 
cannot remember him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does the date July 18, 1930, call anything to your 
mind as to the reasons for the issuance of identification certificates at 
that time ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Not particularly, July 1930. 

Mr. Tavenner. July 18, 1930. 

Mr. Bedacht. The date means nothing to me. It is just one of manj'. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bedacht, are you acquainted with an individual 
by the name of Nicholas Dozenberg? 

Mr. Bedacht. I did know him. 

Mr. Tavenner. You did know him ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the central control commis- 
sion of the Coimnunist Party in the year 1928? 

Mr. Bedacht. I don't know that I was. I don't think so. I was a 
member of the executive committee. I don't remember ever having 
been a member of the control commission. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know wdiether or not Nicholas Dozenberg 
was ever assigned duties by the Soviet military intelligence? 

Mr. Bedacht. That I do not know. I knew him when he worked 
in the office of the Communist Party. He was taking care of the work 
there like shaving cylinders used on a dictaphone, or whatever you call 
it, and things of that sort. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at that time a member of the central com- 
mittee of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I think I was. I was almost continuously, from the 
beginning of the party up to the early thirties. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a member of the central committee, would you 
not have information as to the particular assignments given Nicholas 
Dozenberg ? 

Mr. Bedacht. The central committee of the party, to my knowledge 
and during my participation in its work, never gave any assignment 
for military information or for any other information. 

Mr. Tavenner. But wouldn't you know of the fact that assign- 
ments had been made for that purpose ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I would if such assignments were made. I don't 
think they would have been made behind my back. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not speaking of making such assignments by 
the committee, but if they had been made by the central control com- 
mission, would you have known of it ? 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3549 

Mr. Bedacht. The central control commission had no such function. 
The central control commission was an appeal body, and a body to con- 
trol and supervise finances and things of that sort. 

Mr. Ta\'exner. Wliat unit within the Communist Party would have 
jurisdiction to make such assignments? 

Mr. Bedacht. There has been no such unit at any time to make such 
assignments ; not that I know of. 

Mr. Tavenner. There were people engaged in the work of Soviet 
military intelligence in this country, were there not ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I was asked that question by a gentleman from the 
FBI, and my answer there would be good here too. I think the 
Soviet Government, like every other government in the world, is carry- 
ing on and has maintained sources of information. I have no doubt 
about it. But I don't know of my own knowledge. I had no contact 
with them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is it not true that Nicholas Dozenberg severed all 
open connections with the Communist Party in the late 1920's? 

Mr. Bedacht. He left the country, to my recollection, without being 
sent by the party, and that would naturally sever his connections. 

Mr. Tavenner. But wasn't his connection severed before he left 
this country ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I know of no formal way of that being done. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't it done, in fact, so that Dozenberg could 
work exclusively on Soviet military intelligence matters ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I know nothing of that. 

]Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever acquainted with an individual by 
the name of Alfred Tilton ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Tilton ? 

Mr. Tavexner. Yes; T-i-1-t-o-n. 

Mr. Bedacht. Not to my recollection. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted at any time with an individual 
by the name of J. Peters, more usually known as Alexander Stevens ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I knew a Peters. I only knew him as Peters or 
Peter. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he also known as Alexander Stevens ? 

Mr. Bedacht. That name I saw for the first time in the newspapers 
when he was arrested for deportation. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was the same Peters you knew ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes; Peters or Peter. I knew him by the name of 
Peter. 

Mr. Tavenner. And he was the same person who was arrested as 
Alexander Stevens? 

Mr. Bedacht. I believe so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat were your associations with Mr. Peters ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I had no particular association with him. He was 
for quite a while organization secretary of the party in New York 
City, and I naturally came in contact with him, as I came in contact 
with many other members of the party, or functionaries, but I had no 
particular reason to associate with him or work with him or deal 
with him, because he was not under my jurisdiction. 

Mr. Tavenner. What organizations are you affiliated with at the 
present time, Mr. Bedacht ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I am affiliated with the International Workers' Order. 
I have been for many years. As a member, you mean ? 



3550 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Bedacht. I joined the Hunterdon County Board of Agricul- 
ture ; neighborhood cooperatives, egg-selling cooperatives. Those are 
the only organizations I belong to. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, we have mentioned the name Jacob 
Kirchenstein during the course of the hearings this morning because 
of the fact that Mr. Kirchenstein is an important subject of the com- 
mittee's investigation into espionage. Kirchenstein is known to have 
engaged in espionage activities subsequent to the Arcos raid, here in 
the United States and on the Continent of Europe, under the name 
Frank Kleges. 

I believe there are no further questions to ask in open session. 

Mr. Moulder. On exhibit 4 you referred to a mission. What mission 
was that ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I have no recollection of this thing. I know I signed 
many credentials, and this was one of them, but I don't know, and, 
if I did know them, I certainly don't remember. I couldn't keep on 
my mind everything I ever did. I have no recollection of the man. I 
had no close dealings with him or I would remember him. 

Mr. Moulder. You mean you signed such certificates frequently 
for people ? 

Mr. Bedacht. If any credentials were signed, they were signed 
because the committee of which I was a member decided to give him 
a credential. 

Mr. Moulder. And now you say you don't recall what that mission 
was ? 

Mr. Bedacht. No. I have no recollection of the man or this particu- 
lar credential. 

Mr. Moulder. What were your functions and duties when you were 
acting as director of agitation ? 

Mr. Bedacht. To get out pamphlets, and to organize party schools 
and things of that sort. Propaganda is education, mostly. 

Mr. Wood. I understood you to say you knew of no authority within 
the party in America who designated the people to whom you issued 
certificates of identification, naming them to perform any functions. 
Where did that authority come from ? 

Mr. Bedacht. It certainly did not exist within the party and its 
committees. 

Mr. Wood. Then how would you know to whom to issue a certificate 
of identification such as contained in exhibit 4? 

Mr. Bedacht. He obviously was given a certificate in connection with 
some mission. 

Mr. Wood. But who named him for that mission ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Either the committee of which I was secretary or a 
district committee who asked for it for him. 

Mr. Wood. Let us talk about it from the general policy standpoint. 
You were issuing these certificates of identification at the time you 
were acting as secretary. Did you issue them to anybody who wanted 
them, or to people whose names were given you 'i 

Mr. Bedacht. I issued them to the people whose need of carrying 
one was decided by the committee of which I was secretary. 

Mr. Wood, "\^^lo determined that need for an individual to perform 
any mission ? Did you decide that ? 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3551 

Mr. Bedacht. No. For instance, there was a meeting of the Com- 
munist International Committee. When a delegate was elected I was 
instructed to issue him credentials, 

Mr. Wood. You were instructed by whom ? 

Mr. Bedacht. By the executive committee or secretariat. 

Mr. Wood. Just whom did you take your instructions from in issuing 
these credentials ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I was a part of the committee, and it devolved 
upon me, by virtue of my position as an official of the committee, when 
the committee decided to send John Brown to Moscow, to issue him a 
credential. 

Mr. Wood. When you issued a credential such as exhibit 4, did you 
always know of your own knowledge that that particular individual 
had been approved by some authority in the party, or was it done on 
the word of somebody ? 

Mr. Bedacpit. It was done on the word of somebody, such as when 
a district committee decided somebody had to have a credential. Dis- 
trict committees could not issue credentials. They had to apply to the 
central committee. 

Mr. Wood. Did any instructions to issue such certificates as exhibit 
4 ever come to you from outside the United States ? 

Mr. Bedacht. It never did. Nobody outside the United States ever 
approached me with a request of that sort. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the exact name of the committee of which 
you were the acting secretary ? 

Mr. Bedacht. At that time we called it the secretariat. 

Mr. Tavenner. It was termed the secretariat ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes. It was a subcommittee of the national com- 
mittee of the party. The national committee of the party, being made 
up of people all over the country, could not always be in session. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlio composed that committee in July 1930 ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Oh, how should I know ? 

Mr. Tavenner. You served as acting secretary only a few months ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You should be able to recall who were members of 
that committee and gave you directions during that period of a few 
months. 

Mr. Bedacht. At this period of time we were in a state of transition, 
and I don't know anyone. Maybe Foster. I remember him. Maybe 
he and Browder were members of the secretariat. I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many on the committee gave you directions? 

Mr. Bedacht. I don't think more than five or six. 

Mr. Tavenner. Five or six. Let's see if you can't name them. 

Mr. Bedacht. As I told you, at that time the party was in a period 
of transition. That is why I iDecame secretary. Lovestone had been 
secretary, and there was a conflict, and in the period between that and 
a convention I acted as secretary for a few months. 

Mr. Tavenner. You certainly should be able to remember who were 
associated with you in that work in that period of a few months. 

Mr. Bedacht. But, frankly, I don't remember. I said I thought 
Browder was a member, but on second thought I don't believe he was 
in the countr}^ at the time. So I don't remember. 

65959 — 51 3 



8552 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Tavennek. How long were you a member of the committee in 
any capacity ? 

Mr. Bedacht. A member of the committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, 

Mr. Bedacht. Well, it wasn't always the same committee. We had 
at one time a politburo. It performed the same functions. Then it 
became the secretariat, made up of the secretaries of the different de- 
partments. I was in the agit-prop department and was then elected 
the secretary. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then the persons who made up that committee were 
secretaries ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes. They had some function in the national office. 
That is why they were always there. And the committee was made 
up of people who were always there. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you can't remember the names of any of them ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Not at that particular time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Suppose you tell us the names of all who served on 
that committee with you at any time. 

Mr. Bedacht. I remember those who were in the leadership of the 
party, such as Foster and Browder and Lovestone and Gitlow. 

Mr. Tavenner. Please name all the persons who served on that 
committee with you. 

Mr. Bedacht. I couldn't remember all the persons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Name all you can. You have only named three. 

Mr. Bedacht. That is all I remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a member of that committee, did you investigate 
to determine whether or not Feierabend was traveling under fraudu- 
lent passports when you gave him this identification certificate ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I probably did not see him when I signed that ribbon. 
That ribbon was typed outside and given to me for signing, and that 
is all. I certainly had no interview with him that I know of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien you are giving an identification to a person 
traveling on a mission overseas, wouldn't you interest yourself in 
whether he was traveling fraudulently before you issued him an iden- 
tification ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I took it for granted when a ribbon was presented to 
me for signature it was all right. I had no occasion to investigate 
each and every one. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know at that time that Feierabend was en- 
gaged in espionage with Nicholas Dozenberg? 

Mr. Bedacht. I certainly did not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where Mr. Feierabend is at this time ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I have not the slightest idea. I don't remember him 
from tlien, and haven't seen him since then, if I did see him then. 

Mr. Tavenner. No further questions. I would lilve to have a 
closed session. 

Mr. Wood. This ends the open session, ladies and gentlemen. The 
subcommittee will go into executive session. 

(Thereupon, at 11 : 45 a. m. on Tuesday, November 8, 1949, the sub- 
committee went into executive session.) 



HEAEINGS KEGAEDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 



TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 1949 

United States House of Representatives, 

subcommitiee of the committee 

ON Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. C. 

EXECUTIVE session 

The subcommittee designated by the chairman, consisting of Repre- 
sentatives John S. Wood and Morgan M. Moulder, met in executive 
session at 11 : 50 a. m. in room 226, Old House Office Building, Hon. 
John S. Wood (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives John S. Wood and 
Morgan M. Moulder. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Louis J. 
Russell, senior investigator; Benjamin Mandel, director of research; 
John W. Carrington, clerk ; and A. S. Poore, editor. 

(Mr. Max Bedacht, having been duly sworn by the chairman pre- 
ceding the giving of his testimony in the public session on this same 
date, was interrogated in executive session and testified further as 
follows :) 

TESTIMONY OF MAX BEDACHT 

Mr. Wood. I suppose you understand, Mr. Bedacht, in executive 
session the testimony is confidential to the committee only. You spoke 
a while ago of having made several trips to Russia during the time 
you were acting as a functionary, and particularly as secretary, of the 
party. What was the purpose of your visits to Russia ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I didn't get the question. 

Mr. Wood. What was the purpose of your various visits to Russia ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I was elected as a delegate to the Congress of the 
Communist International. 

Mr. Wood. That was the second or third congress ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Third congress. And I was elected by the national 
executive committee as a delegate to the fourth congress. 

Mr. Wood. All together, how many trips did you make to Russia ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Probably four. 

Mr. Wood. And each time you went, you went as a functionary of 
the party here in America ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I went as a delegate from America. 

Mr. Wood. You had no other mission at all except that ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I had no other mission. 

Mr. Wood. Those four visits you made, approximately of what du- 
ration were they over there ? Approximately what length of time did 
you spend there? 

3553 



3554 HEARINGS REGARDIXG COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Bedacht. During the duration of the meeting to which I was 
delegated. And I was elected to the executive committee of the Comin- 
tern, I believe at the fourth congress, and then I stayed there a few 
months to act on the executive committee. 

Mr. Wood. In number, about what was the membership of the 
executive committee ? 

Mr. Bedacht. The executive committee was made up of representa- 
tives of different parties. 

Mr. Wood. And in number about how many were on the executive 
committee ? 

Mr. Bedacht. There was at least one from each party, and there was 
a Communist Party in each country. 

Mr. Wood. Could you give an estimate of the number? 

Mr. Bedacht. When full meetings were held there were several 
hundreds. 

Mr. Wood. Wlien you attended those congresses as a delegate from 
America, about what was the normal membership of those meetings? 

Mr. Bedacht. In the congresses ? 

Mp. Wood. Yes. 

]Mr. Bedacht. Well, at the third congress there were probably 400 
or 500 delegates, and at the fourth congress maybe a like number. 

Mr. Wood. How many of those were from the States? 

Mr. Bedacht, From the United States ? 

Mr. Wood. Yes. 

Mr. Bedacht. There were only two or three at the first congress. 

Mr. Wood. And about how many at the fourth congress ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Xot the first congress — at the first congress there 
was no one I know of from America. At the second congress there 
was Jack Reed and Louis Fraina, I believe. At the third congress 
there was mj'self. There were some members of the party who had 
been members of the party and who had meanwhile gone back home. 
They acted also in the delegation. Hurwitz and two or three more. 

Mr. Wood. You are speaking of the third congress, which you 
attended ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Do you remember anyone from the United States at that 
Congress except you and the party you named ? 

Mr. Bedacht. There was one elected at the convention but he never 
did go. 

Mr. Wood. How many from America were at the fourth congress ? 

Mr. Bedacht. I would have to look into the minutes to refresh my 
memory. I just can't remember offliand. The minutes are public 
records. You can look them up yourself, too. 

Mr. Wood. How many from America were on the executive com- 
mittee of the Comintern when you were serving on it ? 

^Ir. Bedacht. On the executive committee that served throughout, 
there was only one. 

Mr. Wood. Tliat was you? 

Mr. Bedacht. Wliile I was there that was me. 

Mr. Wood. That is all. 

Mr. TA^•EXNER. I would like to pursue just a little further the matter 
of the secretariat of which we spoke a while ago. How was the secre- 
tariat formed? 



HEAEEsGS REGARDIXG COMMTXIST ZSPIOXAGE 3555 

Mr. Bedacht. It "was elected by the national committee. The na- 
tional committee as a whole leaves a permanent conmiittee to carry 
out its work. At one time it was called the politburo, then it became 
the secretariat, because it was composed of people who worked in the 
national office and had different functions, were secretaries of the de- 
partments. 

iSIr. Tavexxer. Secretaries of which departments ? 

Mr. Bedacht. There was the general secretary ; the secretary of the 
agit-prop department ; the secretary of the work in the trade-unions ; 
organization secretary : I guess that is about all. 

Mr. Tavexxer. "Were you at one time or another in contact with the 
following representative from Moscow: Ewart, E-w-a-r-t? 

Mr. Bedacht. I remember an Ewart I met in Moscow, but I don't 
remember he was ever here. 

Mr. Ta^-exxee. Did you meet him here in this country? 

Mr. Bedacht. I don't remember. 

^Ir. Tavexxer. As a representative from Moscow? 

Mr. Bedacht. I have no recollection. 

Mr. Ta^tixxer. Pepper? 

Mr. Bedacht. Pepper, yes, I remember him. 

Mr. Ta^-exxe2. Did you meet him here in this country when he was 
a representative from Moscow? 

Mr. Bedacht. I believe he was here in America for a while and 
worked with us, but as representative, I don't know. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Pepper was the Comintern representative, was he 
not? 

Mr. Bedacht. I know he worked with us, but I don't know whether 
he had the position as a representative. 

Mr. Tavexxer. TVhen he worked with you, didn't he give you direc- 
tions as to what should be done in this country ? 

Mr. Bedacht. There was no such thing as direction. The executive 
committee directed, and whoever worked with the executive committee 
had to accept the decisions that were made. 

Mr. Ta\t:xxer. Did Pepper work with the executive committee? 

Mr. Bedacht. Yes. 

Mr. Tavexxer. That is all. 

Mr. MorLDER. May I ask one question? 

!Mr. TTogd. ;Mr. Moulder. 

Mr. Moulder. Does the Communist Party in this country keep a 
record of its membership ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Xot in a central body, and, frankly, I don't even 
know how the records are kept now. Probably the records are only 
in the lower units, that is, in the lower branches. 

Mr. MotxDER. The central headquarters have no record of the mem- 
bership ? 

^Ir. Bedacht. I don't think they have a record. "We never had, to 
my knowledge. 

Mr. Moulder. They did not keep a record while you were an 
official ? 

Mr. Bedacht. Xo. 

Mr. Moulder. That is all. 

ISIr. Wood. Thank you very much, ^Ir. Bedacht. 

;Mr. Tavexxer. Dr. Burtan. 



3556 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Wood, Will you raise your right hand, please? Do you 
solemnly swear the evidence you give this subcommittee shall be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Dr. BuRTAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. 

TESTIMONY OP WILLIAM GREGORY BURTAN 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Burtan, the committee desires your cooperation 
in obtaining certain information relating to events and persons, which 
will be brought out in my questions. 

Will you state your full name, please ? 

Dr. Burtan. William Gregory Burtan. 

Mr, Tavenner. Wiat is your present address ? 

Dr. Burtan. 260 West Seventy-second Street, New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what occupation are you engaged ? 

Dr. Burtan. Eight now I am doing medical clerical work in the 
Union Health Center of the International Ladies' Garment Workers 
Union. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a doctor? 

Dr. Burtan. I was, yes. I haven't my license now. 

Mr. Wood. I didn't get the last sentence. 

Dr. Burtan. My license has been revoked. 

Mr. Wood. You are a doctor of medicine ? 

Dr. Burtan. Yes. 

Mr. Wood, Wliat school did you attend ? 

Dr. Burtan, New York University, Bellevue Medical College. 

Mr. Wood. How long did you practice medicine ? 

Dr. Burtan. In 1923 I graduated. 

Mr. Wood. Wlien was your license suspended ? 

Dr. Burtan. It was revoked in 1936, 1 oelieve. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Dr. Burtan. I was born in Russia in 1900, September 25, and came 
to this country in 1907. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you naturalized ? 

Dr. Burtan. Wlien I was 21 ; about 1921. 

Mr. Tavenner. July 1921 ? 

Dr. Burtan. I guess that is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Nicholas Dozenberg? 

Dr. Burtan. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know at the time you knew Nicholas Dozen- 
berg that he was a Soviet agent ? 

Dr. Burtan. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at one time connected with the American- 
Rumanian Film Corp. as its vice president ? 

Dr. Burtan. I don't think I held a position with the corporation. I 
helped organize it, but I don't believe I was on the board of directors. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what way did you help organize it? 

Dr. Burtan. By getting people to help form it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Nicholas Dozenberg the president of this 
company ? 

Dr. Burtan. Either he or his wife. That is an item that was un- 
important, so I don't remember. 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMIVIUNIST ESPIONAGE 3557 

Mr. Tavenisher. Nicholas Dozenberg was actively engaged in tho 
establishment of that corporation, was he not ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. Yes. He was the instigator of it. 

Mr. Wood. What is the name of the corporation ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The American-Rumanian Film Corp. 

Were you at that time a member of the Communist Party ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. I was not. I was a member of the same group that Mr. 
Mandel was, the Lovestone group. I had been expelled in 1929. 

Mr. TA^■ENNER. When was that corporation organized? 

Dr. BuRTAN. I think in 1931, if my recollection is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1933 I believe you were arrested by the United 
States Secret Service in New York City on a charge of possession 
and passing of counterfeit bills? 

Dr. BuRTAN. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How much counterfeit money did you have in your 
possession at that time? 

Dr. BuRTAN. None. 

Mr.. Tavenner. Well, when I speak of possession I am not referring 
particularly to having it in your pocket or on your person, but how 
much counterfeit money was involved in the matter relating to your 
arrest ? 

Dr. Burtan. Approximately $100,000. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. About $100,000 ? 

Dr. Burtan. Approximately, in counterfeit bills. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was this counterfeit money printed? 

Dr. Burtan. That is a mystery to me. T can only repeat what 
Dozenberg informed me. I was never a principal agent in the thing. 
As he informed me, it was made in Berlin; and subsequently, in 
talking to Secret Service agents, they seemed to believe the same thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Suppose you tell us the entire story about Dozen- 
berg's connection and your connection with that counterfeit enter- 
prise ? 

Dr. Burtan. Well, Dozenberg had been passing that money all over 
the world, and he proposed to me that I should help him in getting 
this money converted in large blocks. At that time I was acquainted 
with a German, Hans Daschan Von Buelow. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell that, please? 

Dr. Burtan. V-o-n B-u-e-1-o-w. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there an "1" in the name ? 

Dr. Burtan. Yes. That is a famous German name, historical 
name. The proposition given to him was that he should help pass 
this money. I had been acquainted with him a year or a year and 
a half. He had no job ; he had no means of support. I used to help 
him out. He was a good companion. He used to come to my office 
almost every day. We used to have dinner together almost every day. 
He was a very interesting fellow. He was an adventurer of the world 
and knew everybody and everything. 

When he was shown these bills, his idea was they should be given 
to the Finance Minister of Guatemala, with whom he was well ac- 
quainted — this is the story given to me — and this Finance Minister 
would be able to put these bills in a safe and take out Guatemalan 
money or good American money, and he believed these bills would not 
be seen for many years; and, of' course, he would give us a part of the 



3558 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

money, a certain percentage of it. That was the scheme originally 
advanced by Von Buelow. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Von Buelow a Communist ? 

Dr. BuETAN. No. As a matter of fact, I believe he was a Nazi. He 
used to advocate Hitler's views, which made no difference to me at 
that time. Very little was known of Hitler at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Dozenberg at that time a Communist? 

Dr. BuRTAN. He was alleged to be one. As far as I knew he was 
one. The reason why he trusted me so much was because he was a 
sympathizer of our group. At that time there were many old-timers 
who were still members of the Communist Party but were sympa- 
thetic to us who had been expelled, in one way or another, and as 
far as I knew he was considered a Communist. 

After this thing failed, it seemed that Von Buelow, without my 
knowledge, really had another scheme in mind. Somehow or another 
the matter failed in Guatemala ; he never did meet the Finance Min- 
ister. He had shown me cables supposedly from the Finance Minister. 
His other scheme was to pass it in Chicago. I knew nothing about it. 
He had a friend there by the name of Smiley, who was a private de- 
tective, and through Smiley it seems Van Buelow engaged a number 
of underground characters. These underground characters distrib- 
uted the money. This was without my knowledge. I didn't learn of it 
until at my trial. When one of these underground characters was 
caught he told the Secret Service where he got the money. At the 
trial there were about six or seven people who testified ahead of me 
whom I did not know. Each one said he got it from the other man. It 
was sort of a chain of events. Finally it came down to me. When I 
was asked where I got the money, I did not testify to that. I was really 
protecting Dozenberg. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the purpose of passing these counterfeit 
bills ? What was to be done with the money ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. The money which I was to get, part of it I was going 
to turn over to Dozenberg, who would finance himself, his enterprises, 
and part of it was to go to the Lovestone group. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say part of it was to go where ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. To the Lovestone group, for expenses. 

Mr. Tavenner. You said that Dozenberg was to use part of it for 
the financing of his enterprises. What enterprises do you refer to ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. Well, at that time I don't remember whether we had 
already formed the American-Rumanian Film Corp. or not, but we 
were going to form it. His idea was to form various fronts for his 
activities, and that is all I knew. I was not to be asking questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. His activities in what connection ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. At that time he told me he was going to go to Rumania 
to do some espionage work there. 

Mr. Tavenner. For what government ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. For the Soviet Government. But I was out of the 
Communist Party. I was not primarily interested in the Communist 
Party or in the Soviet Government at that time. As a matter of fact, 
we were fighting the regime that was in charge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you carried on correspondence with the Ca- 
nadian Radium & Uranium Corp. at any time ? 

Dr. Burtan. Never. 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3559 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you conferred in person with any member of 
that corporation ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. The only thing I can tell you is this: I knew Dr. 
Tomarkin away back in the days of my youth when I was a student. 
He came from Italy, and was a stanch Mussolini supporter at that 
time. That was in 1923, 1924, or 1925. I did him a lot of personal 
favors, and I did some medical research work with liim. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell his name, please ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. T-o-m-a-r-k-i-n. Dr. Tomarkin used to have some hot 
arguments with me against communism. So don't get the impression 
he was a Communist. When I came out of jail Dr. Tomarkin still 
remembered me very closely, because we used to be very close in those 
years, and at this time he had organized a corporation that was manu- 
facturing and selling a waterproohng compound, and they were mak- 
ing quite a good deal of money. Also, he was working for the 
Canadian Radium Corp. He knew the president, Pregel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell that name, please ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. I don't know how to spell it. I met him through Dr. 
Tomarkin, but know him very slightly. At one time he was going to 
try to get me a job there, because I was in need of a job when I came 
out of prison. Subsequently he gave me a job as sanitary officer at 
Aquilla. I had lost my license, but was working under another doctor. 
For that I am very thankful to him, because he gave me a chance to 
make a living. I had no other connection with the Canadian Radium 
Corp. other than just to meet Mr. Pregel for a few minutes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You do have knowledge, do you not, that this is the 
concern which sold uranium nitrates and oxides to the Soviet Govern- 
ment in 1943 ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. No. At that 'time I didn't know Mr. Pregel. I met 
Pregel only a few months ago. I do recall the Canadian Radium 
Corp. at one time was in the papers as having sold uranium, and the 
{government told them to stop selling it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Max Bedacht, who was a 
witness here this morning ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you known him ? 

Dr. Burtan. I haven't known him these past 17 or 18 years, but I 
knew him before that. Don't forget I was in jail for 10 years, and 
since then I have had no contacts. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did Max Bedacht have any connection with Dozen- 
berg's activities, in the sense of assigning duties to him ? 

Dr. Burtan. None that I know of. If he had, I am sure they would 
not tell me about it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Max Bedacht ever give you directions or 
orders ? 

Dr. Burtan. No. He couldn't give me orders. He could ask my 
assistance. 

Mr. Tavenner. Has he ever asked your assistance? 

Dr. Burtan. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what matters ? 

Dr. Burtan. In the matter of the counterfeit bills, and in the matter 
of the American-Rumanian Film Corp. 



65959—51- 



3560 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you misunderstood me. I asked did Max 
Bedaclit ever make any request of you? Are you speaking of Max 
Bedacht? 

Dr. BuRTAN. No. Max Bedacht never asked me and never could, 
because I was not a functionary of the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated you knew that Dozenberg was a Soviet 
agent. How did you acquire that knowledge? 

Dr. BuRTAN. He told me so himself. I mean, his activities were 
such. Just for a man to tell you that would not be sufficient. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Jack Stachel, who was 
recently convicted in Federal court in New York City ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. I was in the old days. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Gaik Ovakimian, 0-v-a- 
k-i-m-i-a-n ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. It doesn't strike any recollection. 

Mr. Tavenner. I show you a photograph of Gaik Ovakimian and 
ask if you can identify the photograph as being of a person you know ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. No ; 1 have no recollection of him at all. I hope you 
are not under a misapprehension as to my connection. I was not in 
the midst of any of those things. I was on the fringes. I was only 
asked to help, which meant that I would not be introduced to people 
who were agents or anything like that. I wouldn't be a man who was 
trusted to a degree that I would be right in things. So that a lot of 
these people I would never possibly meet. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee the names of all persons 
who conferred with you at any time regarding the counterfeit money ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. What do you mean ? How to pass them, how to dis- 
pose of them ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Dr. BuRTAN. Only Dozenberg and Von Buelow. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did any other persons solicit your entering into this 
plan, or talk to you about it, besides those two persons ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. No. If I had thought there were more than one or two 
people I never would have touched it with a 10-foot pole. 

Mr. Wood. Who got those counterfeit bills into the hands of the 
people who actually passed them in Chicago ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. That I don't know, except what came out in the triaL 
Smiley was the one who passed them to those people. 

Mr. Wood. You didn't pass them to those people? 

Dr. BuRTAN. No ; I didri't even know the people. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you deliver them to Smiley ? 

Dr. Burtan. No; that was a lie Smiley told on the stand. I de- 
livered them to Von Buelow. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Von Buelow tried ? 

Dr. Burtan. He wasn't tried with me. There was a severance of 
trials. That is all hearsay. He was subsequently tried and released 
after 1 hour in jail, or something like that. He acted as a Govern- 
ment witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you cooperate with the Government during the 
course of the trial, or is this the first time these facts have been dis- 
closed ? 

Dr. Burtan. The FBI knew the facts since 1939, I believe, when 
Dozenberg came to jail in Lewisburg. 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3561 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you first tell any Government agency the 
real facts in the case? 

Dr. BuRTAN. About 1939. I think Dozenberg gave the FBI a state- 
ment also, and I gave one. 

Mr. Wood. Was Dozenberg prosecuted for this counterfeit activity ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. No ; he was never prosecuted for that. He was sent 
to Lewisburg on a false passport charge. I was there already. 

Mr. Wood. Even after you divulged the information to the FBI you 
are divulging now, Dozenberg was not prosecuted ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you Imow when Dozenberg was released from 
Lewisburg ? 

Dr. BuRTAN. He did a year and a day, which means he did 9 months 
and 18 days. I can't recall whether it was 1939 or 1940 when he came 
in. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat I am getting at is, did he serve his sentence 
after you had made known to the FBI the facts as you haA^e told them 
here? 

Dr. Burtan. He was there in jail when the FBI received the report. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long before that had the passing of this money 
taken place? 

Dr. Burtan. 1932. I believe the statute of limitations applied. 

Mr. Wood. Was Dozenberg a witness at your trial ? 

Dr. Burtan. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. No further questions, 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Moulder? 

Mr. Moulder. No further questions. 

Mr. Wood. I have no further questions, Doctor. Thank you. 

(Thereupon, at 12:25 p. m., the hearing was adjourned.) 



HEAEINGS EEGAEDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 



FRIDAY, DECEMBEE 2, 1949 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

ON Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. G» 

public hearing 

The subcommittee of one met, pursuant to call, at 10 : 30 a. m., in 
room 226, Old House Office Building, Hon. Morgan M. Moulder 
presiding. 

Committee member present : Hon. Morgan M. Moulder. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Courtney 
Owens, investigator; John W. Carrington, clerk; Benjamin Mandel, 
director of research ; and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Moulder. The committee will come to order. 

Let the record show that on November 8, 1949, the Honorable John 
S. Wood, chairman of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 
ordered, authorized, and directed Morgan M. Moulder, a member of 
this committee, as a subcommittee thereof, to hold, conduct, and pre- 
side over hearings scheduled for this day. 

Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Chairman, the hearing this morning constitutes a part of the 
committee's effort to assemble in report from the history of the Soviet 
espionage apparatus from the time it began to function in the United 
States until the present date. - The committee's invesigation of Soviet 
espionage has reflected that there are a great many Soviet espionage 
agents who operated in the United States and who may be still oper- 
ating because of the fact that they have never been publicly identified. 

If you will recall, Mr. Chairman, a considerable number of persons 
known to have operated in the United States have been identified by 
witnesses appearing before the committee solely by pseudonyms. It 
is hoped that during the course of the committee's espionage hearings 
which will be held from time to time persons previously referred to 
as espionage agents under the pseudonyms of "Bill," "Herb," "Jim," 
and so forth, will be definitely identified under their true names. 

The witness this morning has been asked to appear here because of 
the fact that he, at his own personal risk, assisted the United States 
Government in its efforts to uncover the operation of an espionage 
apparatus which was headed by one Mr. Herb, who was subsequently 
identified as Moische Stern. 

So I would like to call that witness. Mr. Disch. 

3563 



3564 HEARINGS REGARDING COAIMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Hold up your right hand and be sworn. You solemnly swear the 
testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. DiscH. Yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM M. DISCH 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please ? 

Mr. DiscH. William M. Disch, D-i-s-c-h. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your present address ? 

Mr. Disch. 6208 Eighty-fourth Street, Elmhurst, Long Island, 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Disch, will you briefly state your occupational 
background for the committee ? 

Mr. Disch. I am electrical draftsman for the Arma Corp. 

Mr. Moulder. What corporation ? 

Mr. Disch. Arma, A-r-m-a. 

Mr. Moulder. Will you speak distinctly, Mr. Disch, so we can hear 
what you say ? 

Mr. Disch. I have been employed by this company for the past 25 
years. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what type of work was that company engaged 
in 1931? 

Mr. Disch. They were engaged in naval instrument work, such as 
fire control, gyrocompass ; vei-y secretive work. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were working for that company at that time ? 

Mr. Disch. I was ; yes, sir. 

Mr. TA\rENNER. Where was the company's place of business located ? 

Mr. Disch. 254 Thirty-sixth Street, Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. Tavenner.. When did you first become employed by that com- 
pany? 

Mr. Disch. In May 1925. 

Mr. Tavenner. And your employment continued how long ? 

Mr. Disch. It continued up until 1944, then I went into business for 
myself, and was reemployed this year. 

Mr. Tavenner. In your employment from 1925 on up through the 
year 1931, what was the general character of your employment ? 

Mr. Disch. My employment at that time was designing instruments 
for fire control for naval work. 

Mr. Tavenner. While working there, did you become acquainted 
with a Mr. and Mrs. Samuel Kantor? 

Mr. Disch. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Ta\T3Nner. Will you tell the committee your associations with 
Mr. and Mrs. Kantor ? 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask how you spell that name ? 

Mr. Disch, I think it is K-a-n-t-o-r. Mr. Kantor was employed by 
the Arma Corp. as chief draftsman, and we used to have a lot of 
social activities, myself and Samuel Kantor and other members of the 
drafting department. We used to go to his home and we used to go 
out and do a little drinkin^r now and theii. Mr. Sam Kantor was with 
the Arma Corp. up until about 1930. 

Mr. Moulder. I don't believe we can hear you very clearly, Mr. 
Disch. Will you speak a little louder? 

Mr. Disch. I will. 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3565 

Mr. Tavenner. You say Mr. Kantor was employed by the Arma, 
Corp. until about 1930? 

Mr. DiscH. About 1930 ; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Kantor have access to the same classified 
and confidential information that you had access to ? 

Mr. DiscH. Yes; he did. He had access to all the confidential 
sj^ecifications, drawings, and contracts. 

Mr. Moulder. Specifications, drawings, and contracts? 

Mr. DiscH. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. Of what? 

Mr. DiscH. Of all fire control contracts, gyrocompass contracts, all 
pertaining to the secretive work we were doing for the Government. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did Mr. Kantor go after leaving the employ 
of the Arma Corp. in 1930, as far as you know ? 

Mr. DiscH. As far as I know, Mrs. Kantor told me he went to 
England. That is as far as I know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat contact did you have, after Mr. Kantor left, 
with Mrs. Kantor, if any? 

Mr. DiscH. Sometime very early in 1931 she wrote me a letter, and 
it was delivered to me by a friend of Mr. Kantor who was employed in 
the machine shop at tlie Arma Corp., asking me to come and see her 
as she would like to talk to me about something. 

Mr. Tav'enner. Did you go ? 

Mr. DiscH. I did go ; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell the committee just what occurred? 

Mr. DiscH. I went up to visit Mrs. Kantor, and Mrs. Kantor told 
me about her husband being in England, and that he would like very 
much to get some information on some fire-control work that we were 
doing. At that time we were in the process of manufacturing a stable 
element, which was the first time it had been used by the United States 
Navy. It had to do with stabilizing the guns on the battleships. She 
asked me if I could get information pertaining to this, as Mr. Kantor 
had already had half of this information himself. He got let go 
before we had completed this particular instrument. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, the development of this secret 
mechanism had not been completed when Kantor left ? 

Mr. DiscH. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Proceed. 

Mr. DiscH. And I said : "Well, I can't give any information like 
that to Mr. Kantor or anybody else." She said, "Oh, there is no harm 
in doing that." I said : "Well, I will see what I can do," and let it 
go at that. She said she would have me meet another man in a few 
days or a week at her home. I said : "O. K." I don't know why I did 
it. I just wanted to find out what it was all about, that is all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she make an appointment for a definite time ? 
Mr. DiscH. She did ; yes. 
Mr. Tavenner. Where was that appointment? 

Mr. DiscH. That appointment was held in her home. She lived at 
that time up in the Bronx in New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us what occurred on that occasion. 
Mr. DiscH. I came there and saw Mrs. Kantor, and while we were 
waiting for this particular party who I was supposed to meet, she 
was telling me : "Don't be afraid of giving this information because 



3566 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

there is no harm in it and you will be paid very £^ood." I said, "What 
do you mean, 'paid very good'?" She said, "You will get much more 
than you. are making at Anna." I said, "Well, I will see what it is 
all about." 

At that time a party by the name of Mr. Herb came in. I was first 
introduced to him at that time, and he appeared to me at that time, 
when I saw him, a militaristic type of a gentleman. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did he impress you as a foreign national ? 

Mr. DiscH. He did. He impressed me as a person of foreign 
nationality, of a militaristic type. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Mrs. Kantor refer to him by any name other 
than Herb ? 

Mr. DiscH. She did not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know at that time whether Herb was his 
real name or not ? 

Mr. DiscH. I did not. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Tell us just what occurred when this man Vho was 
referred to as Herb met you in Mrs. Kantor's home. 

Mr. DiscH. I asked him just what he vranted. I said : "It is funny 
to me you want our drawings to use them in England." I said : "Wliat 
is the reason?" He said: "Kantor is working in England with a 
competitive concern of yours and would like that information to help 
him in that work." He said : "You know all those countries work 
hand in hand." He tried to sell me a bill of goods and tell me not 
to worry. I said : "I don't know. Suppose I think about it." And 
T made an appointment with him for a later date. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he do anything in particular to attempt to gain 
your confidence at that time ? 

Mr. DiscH. At the time when I met him first at Mrs. Kantor's home ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. DiscH. No ; he didn't. We just made a date to meet at Ninety- 
sixth Street and Broadway about a week later — something like that. 

Mr. Tavenner. '\'\niat type of place was Ninety-sixth and Broad- 
way where you met later ? 

Mr. DiscH. Eight outside a subway station. There is a hotel on the 
corner there ; I don't remember the hotel's name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet in the hotel ? 

Mr. DiscH. No ; on the street. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us Vhat occurred then. 

Mr. DiscH. Before that I want to tell that when I went back to 
Arma I told the president of the concern what happened, and he be- 
came very interested in it and he said : "Good for you, fellow. We 
will find out what is what." So he called up the Navy Department, 
and the Naval Intelligence came up the following day and we talked 
it over, and they told me to meet him and they would have Naval In- 
telligence men at the corner to watch me. When I met him at Ninety- 
sixth and Broadway I saw two Naval Intelligence men around the 
corner. I had met them when I talked to Captain Jones, the head of 
Naval Intelligence at that time. 

From there we went to a Schrafft's restaurant at Ninety-fifth and 
Broadway, I believe. I had no information to give him. He asked if 
I had anything, and I said "No," because I was nervous about what 
tills wtis all abnnt. T snid: "I don't know who you are and I am 
jeopardizing myself in giving you some information." 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3567 

He said: "Don't worry about that." To gain my confidence he 
reaches in his briefcase and hands me a brand new one-hundred-dollar 
bill, to gain my confidence. 

Mr. Tavennek. Do you remember the date of the meeting when you 
were handed the $100? 

Mr. DiscH. I don't just remember the date. It was in the early part 
of 1931. I can't say what particular month in 1931 it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, tell the committee just what occurred 
from that time on. Before that, let me ask you this : What type of 
information was this individual interested in ? 

Mr. DiscH. He was interested mostly in the stable vertical, the one 
that was half completed when Sam Kantor left Arma Corp. 

Mr. Moulder. The what ? 

Mr. DiscH. The stable vertical. 

Mr. MoFLDER. Wliat is that? 

Mr. DiscH. The stabilizing of the guns when they are fired aboard 
a ship. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us what occurred after that conference. 

Mr. DiscH. After that conference I used to meet him at least every 
2 weeks for the following 6 m.onths. I should say for about 6 months 
I used to meet him every 2 weeks, about. Every time I went to meet 
him I always took some dummy information which was worthless, and 
1 gave him dummy specifications pertaining to some instruments way 
back years ago. Every time I met him he always handed me $100, 
$200, something like that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that work which you were doing under the su- 
pervision of any Government agency? I mean by that, were your 
conferences and the material you furnished at these conferences super- 
vised in any way by a Government agency ? 

Mr. DiscH. Yes, sir; they were. Naval Intelligence only followed 
me twice, and then the FBI took over, and the FBI from that time 
supervised the whole case. Every time I was supposed to meet him 
I met with the FBI men at their building on Lexington Avenue at 
Forty-first Street, and I was searched. The procedure was to see how 
much money I had on me, so they could search me when I came back 
and tell how much money he gave me. At every meeting there were 
always FBI men near the table where we met, and they would see 
him hand me money and see the transactions. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was done with the money you received ? 

Mr. DiSGH. I gave it to the FBI and they gave me a receipt for it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you learn, during the course of your contacts 
with this man referred to as Herb, where he worked or where he was 
employed or with whom he associated ? 

Mr. DiscH. No ; I did not ; but what I do remember, the FBI wanted 
to know if he was connected with Amtorg, and they were wondering 
how we could get him to go there, so they planned I was to give him 
some very confidential information which I had taken over the night 
and had to bring back the next morning, so we kind of put the pressure 
on him. I met him the early part of the evening and gave him these 
specifications, which were dummies, and later on in the evening he 
was supposed to give me the specifications back. I think he led them 
to the Amtorg Corp., where he went to have the specifications photo- 
graphed. 

65959—51 5 



3568 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Tavbnner, This man Herb led the FBI men to Amtorg Corp. ? 

Mr. DiscH. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. What is that? 

Mr. DiscH. That is a Russian purchasing agency? 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Herb drive a car ? 

Mr. Discii. We always took a taxi and we always met at a different 
place each time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Give us a description of the places where you met? 

Mr. Discn. Well, we used to meet quite frequently in the Schrafft 
restaurants in New York, and in some of the German haufbraus in 
East Side New York, and some other downtown restaurants. 

Mr. Tavenner. How was this information which you took with you 
passed to Herb? 

Mr. DiscH. It was always in a package. I laid it on the table and 
when we got up he picked it up. It was never handed directly. I laid 
it on the table. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the package so wrapped and prepared 

Mr. DiscH. It was in a folder — in an envelope. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did this man Herb indicate to you whether there 
were other persons furnishing him information? 

Mr. DiscH. I don't think he did, but I do recall the FBI told me : 
"Gee, Bill, you certainly did open up a hornet's nest, because there 
were other people he was contacting in New York." ^^Hiether it wa^ 
Sperry's or not, I don't know. I asked the FBI : "Is anybody else 
connected with this?" They said: "We have other fellows being 
shadowed the same way." 

Mr. Tavenner. This information Herb sought was strictly confiden- 
tial information ? 

Mr. Discii. Strictly confidential information. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Herb explain in any greater detail than you have 
told us his purpose in obtaining this material and what he proposed 
to do with it? 

Mr. DisCH. All I could find out from him at the time, I asked him 
if he was connected with the German Government. He never did 
actually tell me who he was getting this information for. I don't 
recall any time that he told me exactly who was paying him or who 
he was connected with. I don't remember that. 

Mr. Moulder. Maybe not in express words, but did he, by inference, 
indicate where he was taking this information? 

Mr. DiscH. Only where the FBI told me they followed him to. He 
told me at the time I gave him these specifications ; "I will have them 
photographed." That is the time he went to the Amtorg Corp. 

Mr. Moulder. Where did the FBI tell you he was taking the 
information ? 

Mr. DiscH. They didn't tell me. 

Mr. Moulder. They didn't tell you ? 

Mr. DiscH. No; they didn't tell me; but at the time they did tell 
me a lot of things he was doing and where he lived, and they had a 
man placed at the house where he lived. 

Mr. Moulder. What did you say the name of this Russian "pntr- 
chasing agency was? 

Mr. DiscH. Amtorg. 

]\Ir. Moulder. How do you spell it ? 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3569 

Mr. Tavenner. A-m-t-o-r-g. 
Mr. ]\IouLDER. I see. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state in more detail what information was 
given you, or what was said to you, by the FBI or the Naval Intelli- 
gence officers as to the information which was obtained relating to this 
man Herb's movements ? 

Mr. DiscH. I don't get the question. You mean what he done with 
it? 

Mr. Ta-stsnner. "What information did other Government agencies 
of the United States obtain regarding this man Herb's movements? 

Mr. DisCH. They didn't tell me too much of what they actually 
found out in reference to him. All I can remember, I gave him prints 
a number of times and they followed him. At one particular time they 
told me they followed him and he turned around and asked the fel- 
low, "Who are you following? Are you following me?" And the 
Intelligence man said "No" and walked away. Another particular 
time I was told that when the package of blueprints was given to one 
of his coworkers — I don't know who this particular party was — and 
he was being trailed pretty closely, he dropped them in an ashcan 
so he would not be caught with them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever seen this man Herb since the last time 
you conferred with him with regard to these documents? 

Mr. DiscH. No, sir. The last appointment I had with him, he 
didn't show up. and when I reported back to the FBI office they told 
me : "He must have flew the coop." So they checked up on him and 
found he had moved. They were going to check up on Mrs. Kantor 
and found she had also moved, ho that was the last I heard from 
Mr. Herb until sometime during that Spanish Civil War, it was after 
that, one of the FBI men came to Arma Corp. and asked me to identify 
a photograph. He said: "Do you know who this fellow is, Bill?"^ 
I said: "Yes; that is my old pal." He was supposed to have been 
killed in the Spanish Civil War at that time. I said: "How did you 
ever get a photograph like that?" He said: "We have our ways of 
getting information like that." 

Mr. Moulder. Who was the photograph of ? 

Mr. DiscH. Of Herb. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you advised that Herb was not actually killed ? 

Mr. DiscH. The FBI man said : "That is a trick of theirs. He will 
pop up again under an assumed name." 

Mr. Owens. I would like to ask one question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Moulder. Very well. 

Mr. Owens. Did you, as a result of this experience over a period of 
6 months, ask our authorities, that is, the FBI, what was being done 
with the evidence you were obtaining, or helping them to obtain ? 

Mr. DiscH. I don't believe I ever asked them that question, what 
they were doing with it. 

Mr. Taa':enner. No further questions. 

Mr. Moulder. You are excused, Mr. Disch. Thank you very much. 

The subcommittee will stand adjourned until Monday, December 
5, at 10 : 30 a. m. 

(Thereupon, at 11 a. m., Friday, December 2, 1949, the hearing was 
adjourned until Monday, December 5, 1949, at 10 : 30 a. m.) 



HEAEINGS EEGxYKDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 



MONDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 1950 

United States House of Eepeesentatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. G. 

executive session 

The comittee met, pursuant to call, at 11 : 15 a. m,, in room 226, Old 
House Office Building, Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) presiding. 

Cominittee members present : Eepresentatives Jolin S. Wood (chair- 
man). Burr P. Harrison, Morgan M. Moulder, Harold H. Velde, and 
Bernard W. Kearney. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Louis J. 
Eussell, senior investigator; William A. Wheeler, Donald T. Appell, 
and Courtney Owens, investigators; and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order, and let the record dis- 
close that there are present Messrs. Harrison, Moulder, Velde, Kearney, 
and Wood, a quorum. 

Will you please stand and be sworn. You solemnly swear the evi- 
dence you give this committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Sherman. I do. , 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. Mr. Eussell, you may proceed. 

TESTIMONY OP JOHN LOOMIS SHERMAN 

Mr. Eussell. Mr. Sherman, you are appearing before the committee 
by virtue of a subpena served on you February 8, 1950, by Deputy 
United States Marshal Eoss, of Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Sherman. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Eussell. What is your full name ? 

Mr. Sherman. My name is John L. Sherman. 

Mr. Eussell. Does the L stand for Loomis ? 

Mr. Sherman. That is right. 

Mr. Eussell. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Sherman. I was born on a farm in the outskirts of Utica, N. Y., 
October 19, 1895. 

Mr. Eussell. What is your present address ? 

Mr. Sherman. My present address is 705 West Sixth Street, Los 
Angeles. 

Mr. Eussell. What is your occupation ? 

Mr. Sherman. I am at present unemployed, but by profession 
I am a teacher. 

Mr. Eussell. Would you furnish the committee with a record of 
your past employment, beginning about the year 1925 ? 

3571 



3572 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Sherman. In meeting this question, may I inform the com- 
mittee that within the week I was summoned to appear as a witness 
before the Federal grand jury of Los Angeles. 

Mr. Wood. Within this week? 

Mr. Sherman. Within the week. I think it was last Tuesday. 
There, together with the other persons present, I was sworn to secrecy, 
and I do not know what information I may reveal here without vio- 
lating that oath of secrecy. 

Mr. Russell. Were you subpenaed to appear before the Federal 
grand jury after this committee's subpena was served upon you ? 

Mr. Sherman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Sherman, permit me to advise you that the oath 
you take before a grand jury is that you ^vi\l not divulge anylliing 
that happened in the grand jury room. No grand jury lias any author- 
ity to invoke any oath of secrecy other than that. This is in executive 
session, also. 

]\Ir. Sherman. I think you will appreciate, Mr. Wood, that the 
questions entered into there were of a very wide nature, and I myself, 
not being a lawyer, am not informed as to what my rights are or what 
I may reveal. 

Mr. Russell. IMr. Chairman, I would like to say something on that 
point. This man's name first developed in our investigation of Wliit- 
taker Chambers' case. It was never brought out in the trial of Whit- 
taker Chambers' case, and it seems to me there has been interference 
on the part of other agencies in one of our investigations. 

Mr. Wood. I have tried to inform the witness as to how far an oath 
of secrecy to a grand jury goes. 

Mr, Sherman. It is my intention to cooperate as fully as I can with 
this committee. 

Mr. Wood. We are not going to ask you what you testified before a 
grand jtiry. 

!Mr. Russell. Have you ever used the name "Robert Mitchell ?" 

Mr. Sherman. I believe, in reply to this question, I must exercise 
my privilege that the answer may tend to incriminate me, and there- 
fore I am unable to answer that question. 

Mr. Wood. This committee does not agree you are not able to answer 
it. You may decline to answer if you desire. 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the ground the answer 
may tend to incriminate me. 

My. Russell. Did you ever write for a publication known as the 
Daily Worker under that name? 

Mr. Sherman. My reply to that question is similar.^ I must decline 
to answer on the ground the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. You understand, Mr. Sherman, that the committee does 
not accept that as a valid excuse. If you decline to answei;;, you do 
it at your own hazard. The question is whether you have written 
under that name. It is not a violation of any law I know of for a man 
to write under a pen name. I fail to see how an answer to that ques- 
tion could incriminate you. 

Mr. Sherman. May I explain it is my understanding that any 
matter, in itself however harmless, if it may lead to the securing 
of evidence or the uncovering of information which may tend to 
incriminate me, permits me, under the constitutional privilege, to 
decline to answer ? 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3573 

Mr. Wood. I understand you decline to answer ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the ground the answer 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, I would like to go back to the ques- 
tion I asked you when you brought up the fact you had been sworn 
to secrecy before a Federal grand jury. The question was, would you 
furnish the committee with a record of your past employment, begin- 
ning in about the year 1925 ? 

Mr. Sherman. To the best of my recollection I have been employed 
in newspaper work, as a teacher, and I have been a farm adviser, or, 
more accurately, I should say agricultural adviser, because farm 
adviser is a Government position, and I did not hold that. I have 
been a teacher for some years. I worked for the Government camp 
at Camp Pendleton. I was employed as a cab driver during this 
period. I believe that about covers it as nearly as I can recollect at 
the moment. 

Mr. Russell. lA^iat newspaper were you employed by ? 

Mr. Sherman. In reply to this question I must exercise my privilege 
on the same grounds and decline to answer. 

Mr. Russell. In connection with the answer which you have given 
to the question regarding the record of your past employment, did you 
ever have any other employment ? 

Mr. Sher3ian. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever used the name "Arthur" ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever used the name "]Mike" ? 

Mr, Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever used the name "Don" ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Max Bedacht ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

_ Mr. Wood. I can see no way on earth how an answer to that ques- 
tion could incriminate you. 

Mr. Sherman. I mean this in the spirit of the greatest cooperation. 
I don't know what kind of case is being prepared against me. I have 
every reason to believe that much of the testimony given by certain 
witnesses here is part of a definite frame-up. I have no means of 
knowing to what extent I am involved or the individuals you have 
mentioned are possibly involved, and in the absence of any knowledge 
I may have of what is the background of this testimony, any answer 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. In other words, you are assuming there is some scheme 
afoot that may tend to incriminate you? 

Mr. Sherman. I am not accusing the committee, but I have every 
reason to believe that some such pattern has been developed. 

Mr. WooD.^ The question asked now is as to your acquaintanceship 
with a certain individual, and I fail to see how an answer to that 
question could incriminate you. 



3574 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Sherman. If such individuals are themselves involved, and if 
by chance there is testimony involving them and possibly me which I 
do not regard as truthful, I may be incriminated. 

Mr. Wood. I have known many criminals in my life, and I assume 
almost everyone has, but that in no sense incriminates me. _ You 
haven't been asked if you were engaged in any criminal conspiracy. 
You were simply asked if you Imew a certain individual, and I warn 
you, refusal to answer that question may have serious repercussions. 
This committee is not going to try to extract from you any testimony 
that will incriminate you. Will you answer now ? 

Mr. Sherman. I will try to explain my position, I think you will 
hold with me if I can make my position clear. A great deal of testi- 
mony is required ; many questions are asked of me. If it should de- 
velop, as I believe it will, that there is countertestimony to mine, 
possibly on the part of many witnesses, which I regard as untrue, I 
may then incriminate myself and be subject to perjury. It seems to 
me my only security is to decline to answer on the ground the answer 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. No man can be guilty of perjury if he testifies the truth. 

Mr. Sherman. Provided there is not false evidence against him. 

Mr. Kearney. I don't agree with the witness' legal reasoning here. 
If the witness, whether the present witness or any other witness, testi- 
fies in response to questions by counsel and tells the truth in answering 
those questions, there is no basis for perj ury. 

Mr. Wood. Absolutely not, and I will say to the gentleman that 
there has been no testimony about him by the individual now asked 
about. 

Mr. Sherman. There has been considerable testimony on the part 
of other agencies, and I will ask if in previous liearings such an entrap- 
ment and incrimination did not take place such as I fear may take 
place ? 

Mr. Wood. If you persist in that attitude the committee has only 
■one recourse. We are asking for information in conformity with the 
responsibility of this investigating committee, and I am certainly 
anxious and eager to protect every witness' rights here, but at the same 
time we must insist that we are entitled to the courtesy of an answer 
when there is no possibility of the answer being incriminating. 

Mr. Sherman. I wish I knew how to escape from tliis dilemma. I 
do not know how. 

Mr. Wood. Again, will you answer that question, or do you refuse 
to answer ? 

Mr. Sherman. I believe I must exercise my privilege to decline to 
answer on the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. Do you so decline? 

Mr. Sherman. I must so decline, sir. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with an individual known as 
David Whittaker Chambers ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Were you ever introduced to him under any name by 
Max Bedacht? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3575' 

Mr. KussELL. Did you ever know an individual known to you as 
Lloyd Cantwell? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Is Lloyd Cantwell the same person as Whittaker 
Chambers ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever attend a meeting with Wliittaker Cham- 
bers which was also attended by two persons known as Herbert and 
Carl? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever known an individual by the name of 
Ulrich? 

Mr. Sherman. What is the name, sir? 

Mr. Russell. Ulrich. 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. May I suggest to the committee 

Mr. Wood. I don't think you are in a position to do much suggesting,. 
Mr. Witness, in the attitude you have taken. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever known an individual who used the name 
of Fete? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. _ 

Mr. Russell. Was an individual whom you knew as Pete ever identi- 
fied to you as being a man named Keith ? 

Mr. Sherman. What is that name ? 

Mr. Russell. Keith, K-e-i-t-h. 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Was Keith a photographer ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever known Keith under any other name? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know his true name ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Does he live in California at the present time ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same gi'ounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been acquainted with a Soviet espion- 
age agent who used the name "Bill'' ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, I would like to read to you an excerpt 
from testimony given to this committee by Whittaker Chambers, 
wliich reads as follows : 

One day Bill Itrought rue in touch witli Sherman again and Sherman described 
what he had to do. Sherman was to go to Tokyo to be the head of a Soviet 
underground group and he wanted me to organize for him the facade here which 
would make it possible for him to operate in Tokyo, which, as you know, is a 
very difficult operation. 

Do you wish to deny or affirm that statement ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 



3576 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Russell. You have indicated that there has been untruthful 
testimony concerning you, and you are now being afforded an oppor- 
tunity to refute that testimony. Do you wish to refute it? 

Mr. Sherman. I do not have sufficient information at the present 
time to do it, but I have the greatest confidence that ultimately the 
true facts will come out. 

Mr. Wood. You are being given the opportunity to bring those facts 
out now, sir. 

Mr. Sherman. I am unable to do so without my answers tending 
to incriminate me, as I believe. 

Mr. EussELL. I would like to read another excerpt from the testi- 
mony of Whittaker Chambers : 

So I decided that since the London project was rocking along, the expedient 
thing was to use Maxim Lieber to front for the Toliyo operation. That was or- 
ganized in the following way. Lieber and Sherman set up what was called; 
the American Feature Syndicate whose purpose it was to secure interesting 
material from abroad. As I understand it, Lieber went among various feature 
syndicates and various newspapers and tried to get various interests or sales 
in this kind of stuff, and Sherman went to work in Lieber's office, had a desk 
there, and his name was written on the door and I think some stationery was 
got out and deposits were made, I think, in the Chemical Bank in New York 
in the name of the syndicate. These deposits were to finance the operation in 
Japan. Then Peters, who was in on most of this operation, supplied a birth 
certificate in the name of Charles Chase and, on the basis of that certificate, 
which was a perfectly legal document procured in the way I have described 
in earlier testimony, John Sherman took out a passport and on that passport 
he traveled to Tokyo. 

Do you wish to affirm or deny the extract which I have just read to 
you from the testimony of l^Hiittaker Chambers ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever known an individual named J. Peters? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever used the name Charles Chase ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Were you ever associated with an enterprise known 
as the American Feature Writers' Syndicate? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been in Tokyo, Japan ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever have a bank account in the Chemical 
Bank of New York City ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know Maxim Lieber ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, I show you a photostatic copy of an 
application for passport made out in the name of Charles Francis 
Chase, which discloses that the Department of State issued Passport 
No. 148071 to a Charles Francis Chase on September 22, 1934, which 
covered travel to Japan, China, and Soviet Russia, for business pur- 
poses. I ask if you are the individual who executed this passport 
application ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Is that your photograph ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you sign the name Charles F. Chase care of Ro- 
land F. Kapp to this application ? 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3577 

Mr. SiiERMAN". I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Wood. Let that photostat be identified in the record at this 
point. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that this passport application be 
introduced in the record at this point as "Sherman Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. It will be admitted. 

(The document above referred to, marked "Sherman Exhibit No. 1," 
is filed in connection with this record.) 

Mr. Russell. I ha\e asked you whether or not ycu have ever been in 
Tokyo, Japan. I ask jou the same question again. 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever receive a passport from the State Depart- 
ment in the name of C'harles Francis Chase ? 

Mr. Sherman. I nust decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Who was Charles Francis Chase ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the rame grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Isn't it true that on March 7, 1935, you executed an 
application for registration in Tokyo, Japan, in which you listed your 
address as the Bunka, B-u-n-k-a, Apartments, Tokyo, Japan, and in 
which you said that your legal residence in the United States was 545 
Fifth Avenue, New York City, and that in the event of death or acci- 
dent, Maxim Lieber, 545 Fifth Avenue, New York City, should be 
contacted ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. How many passports have you secured from the State 
Department for travel to Russia ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been to Russia ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever known an individual by the name of 
Hideo Noda, H-i-d-e-o N-o-d-a, a Japanese-American and a portrait 
painter ? 

Mr. Sherman. At what time, sir ? 

Mr. Russell. At what time ? 

Mr. Sherman. Yes. When? 

Mr. Russell. 1935. 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you seen him since 1935 ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you know him prior to 1935 ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. At this point I would like to read from the testimony 
of Whittaker Chambers as follows, which refers to the trip which Mr. 
Chambers said you made to Japan : 

Before he went, he gave me another task which was tofind for him an American- 
Japanese who was connected with the highest Japanese circles and who would 
have easy social access to important people in Japan. I found for him Hideo Noda 
who was a Japanese-American, I think born in California, a painter of consider- 
able ability who was at that time, I think, an apprentice of Diego Rivera. Noda 
was a Communist. Then, of course, I introduced Sherman and Noda and, by 
separate routes, they traveled to Japan. 

Do you wish to deny or affirm that excerpt from the testimony of Whit- 
taker Chambers which I have just read to you ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 



3578 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Wood. Specificcally, is the quotation which has just been read 
to you true ? 

Mr. Sherman. I have no means of knowing, sir, and I must decline 
to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Wood. You know whether you met this person Noda ? 

Mr. Sherman. My answer may tend to incriminate me, and I must 
therefore exercise my privilege and decline to answer. 

Mr. Wood. You know whether you traveled to Japan either with 
him or by separate routes; you can answer that? 

Mr. Sherman. I must exercise my privilege to decline to answer 
on the same grounds. 

Mr. Wood. You do know, do you not, whether Noda was a Com- 
munist at that time ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. I would like to read further to you from the testimony 
of Whittaker Chambers : 

I was ordered suddenly to dismantle the whole American end of the Japanese 
apparatus because an arrest had occurred and I assumed, of course, Sherman 
had been arrested in Japan. I was told to do this as quickly as possible. Rus- 
sians are not used to Americans, never will be. I, of course, liquidated the 
apparatus overnight and there was nothing left the next morning. I met Bill 
the next day and he said he hoped that I hadn't done anything about dismantling 
the apparatus because it was all a mistake, but the apparatus was gone com- 
pletely, so they presently recalled Sherman from Tokyo. 

Is that statement true or false ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. I would like to read to you further testimony that 
was given to the committee by Whittaker Chambers : 

I am now jumping out of the time period in order to complete the story. 

And this refers to you : 

He came back to the United States and was again put in touch with me. His 
orders were at that time to proceed to Moscow. Through Peters I again pro- 
cured a birth certificate for him. I have forgotten the name. He went to Mos- 
cow. He was gone quite a while and I had the feeling he probably would never 
come back, but some time, I think in 1937, after Bykov was here or just before 
Bykov came, I have forgotten which, Sherman appeared iinexpectedly one night 
in Lieber's apartment. He was extremely agitated and kept pacing the apart- 
ment and Lieber was present and insisted that we go out at once. We went out 
and the minute I got outside the door he grabbed my arm and said : "I will not 
work 1 hour longer for those murderers." He then told me he wanted me to 
act as his agent personally and get through a message to the proper Soviet agents 
that he was separating himself from the apparatus and that he would return 
to the open Communist Party. 

Do you recall having had such a meeting with Whittaker Chambers 
and making the statements described by him ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know Colonel Bykov ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Were you ever in any apartment that may have been 
occupied by Maxim Lieber? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Wood. Is the committee to understand, sir, that in each instance 
where you use the phrase "I must decline to answer on the same 
grounds," you are referring to the ground your answer may tend to 
incriminate you ? 



HEARINGS REGARDING COI^IMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3579 

Mr. SiiEKMAN. Yes, sir, on tlie constitutional ground my answer 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. And each time you have used that phrase, that is what 
you meant ? 

Mr. Sherman. Yes. 

Mr. KussELL. Do you belong to the Communist Party? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Do you belong to the underground of the Communist 

Party ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever engage in espionage? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. This testimony, Mr. Sherman, refers to a visit which 
Mr. Chambers said you made to Moscow and the testimony following 
the previous testimony which I have read to you. Quoting from Mr. 
Chambers' testimony : 

Perhaps I had better go into a little bit of the Moscow end of this story. 

When Sherman got to Moscow, they let him cool off for several months. No- 
body came near him nor did anything for him and had no communication with 
him. But he got around among various expatriates there and discovered they 
were all perfectly wretched and trying to get out of Russia. He made some 
kind of conspiracy among the expatriates and, of course, it quickly got to the 
ears of the GPU and he was called up before a Colonel Uiitsky wlio was reported 
to be the nephew of the old Uritsky who founded the GPU and who started the 
terror in the revolution. 

Sherman, of course, believed that he would be shot at the end of this meeting. 
So, he wrapped himself up — he had a cold — he wrapped his neck up in flannel 
and put on some perfectly vile smelling medicine, and when this Uritsky ques- 
tioned him he gave perfectly crazy answers to the questions, and with this vile 
smelling stuff and the crazy answers, Uritsky finally let him go. 

They let him go out, the understanding being — I suppose it was a resumption 
of the old threat in the official mind that he was to go to England and work in 
the Soviet apparatus there, but he was to come to the United States and set it up. 

However, wlien he got back here he decided he was through. He was not 
breaking with the Communist Party but was simply breaking with the Russians 
and the underground. 

I carried this message to Bykov. Bykov, of course, was panic-stricken, and 
there was evidently some heavy communicating with official Russians and they 
finally agreed that Sherman should keep the money but that he sliould meet 
certain Russians — I presume that they were NKVD people — in New York, and 
it was left at that. He refused to meet them. 

He said, "I am going to California, and you have to give me 1 day's jump on 
these people. Hold them off any way you can, but give me 1 day's jump on the 

So I did that. I didn't tell Bykov for a whole day that he had left. 

Of course, when Bykov discovered it, he was ready to kill me — as I expected 
he well might. He made me call up the manager oli the apartment house, this 
furnished apartment house where Sherman had been living, which was, I think, 
called the Swiss Chalet, up on Riverside Drive, and Bykov, who at that time 
wasn't speaking English, crowded into this telephone booth to hear what the 
manager was saying over the telephone. 

This was part of the very bad relations that developed between Bykov and 
me. He was sure, and rightly so, that I had had a hand in Sherman's escape. 
Our relations were extremely bad, desperately bad, until Sherman showed up in 
California and got in contact with the Communist Party, and I suppose they 
encircled him with NKVD people and let him alone and watched him. 

Do you wish to deny or affirm the testimony which I have just read to 
you as given to this committee by Whittaker Chambers ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the ground my answer 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever met Colonel Uritsky ? 



3580 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. KussELL. Did you have a conference with him in Moscow at 
any time? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Moulder. Would you care to comment or express any opinion on 
any of the statements read by Mr. Russell? 

Mr. Sherman. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever live in the Swiss Chalet ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question ? 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney. 

Mr. Kearney. Are you now a member of the Communist Party, or 
have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or any other 
subversive organization having for its objective the overthrow of this 
Government by force and violence ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. I understood you to say at the beginning of your 
testimony that you wanted to be cooperative with the committee. 

Mr. Sherman. As far as I can do so without incriminating myself. 

Mr. Kearney. Your answers to the questions propounded by coun- 
sel have not indicated that. 

Mr. Sherman. I am in a dilemma. 

Mr. Kearney. I will say you are at least consistent in your an- 
swers. Did I understand you to say earlier in your testimony that 
you were born on a farm outside Utica, N. Y. ? 

Mr. Sherman. I believe it is now incorporated. 

Mr. I^ARNEY. What was the name of the town ? 

Mr. Sherman. Fairfield, I believe. It was a small town. 

Mr. Kearney. How long did you stay there ? 

Mr. Sherman. I don't know how long. I went to a country school. 

Mr. Kearney. Where was the country school located ? 

Mr. Sherman. I don't recall. It may have been Fairfield. It is 
now, I believe, incorporated in the town itself. 

Mr. Kearney. In the town or in the city ? 

Mr. Sherman. In the city of Utica, N. Y. 

Mr. Wood. When were vou born ? 

Mr. Sherman. October'lO, 1895. 

Mr. Wood. Any other questions, Mr. Russell ? 

Mr. Russell. Yes. 

Mr. Sherman, did you ever flee from New York to California be- 
cause you were fearful something might happen to you ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever request Whittaker Chambers to defer 
relaying knowledge to Colonel Bykov for a day so that you could pro- 
ceed to California without anybody knowing it for at least 2-4 hours ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever know an individual by the name of 
Keith? 

Mr. Sherman. You asked that. 

Mr. Russell. I am asking it again. 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, the committee has subpenaed the per- 
son referred to as Keith under his true name. The individual iden- 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3581 

tified as Keith recently communicated with the committee and re- 
quested a 3-week postponement of his appearance, which was sched- 
uled for today. The postponement was granted, and he is scheduled 
to appear before the committee on Thursday, March 16, 1950. 

Mr. Sherman, did you ever make a trip to New York with a person 
known to you as Keith and, while there, hold a meeting with anyone, 
particularly two former officers of the Tsarist Army ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, I have one further question, and then 
Mr. Appell has a few questions based on later information. 

I asked if you ever knew an individual named Ulrich. 

Mr. Sherman. How do you spell that? 

Mr. Russell. U-1-r-i-c-h or U-1-l-r-i-c-h. 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever know Ulrich as Walter? 

Mr. Siiepjman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Were you ever acquainted with the true identity of 
Ulrich or Walter? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Isn't it true the correct name of Ulrich or Walter is 
Alexander Petrovich Ulanovski ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. That is all. 

Mr. Appell. Were you an officer of the American Feature Writers' 
Syndicate ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did the American Feature Writers' Syndicate file with 
the city of New York a registration of trade ? 

Mr. Sherman. File? 

. Mr. Appell. Yes. 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you, along the Maxim Lieber and Lloyd Cantwell, 
sign this certification? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did the American Feature Writers' Syndicate have a 
bank account in the Chemical Bank in New York City ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you sign the deposit account as an officer of the 
American Feature Writers' Syndicate? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know an individual known as Paul ? Let me 
ask you this, was Maxim Lieber also known to you as Paul ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Sherman, did you request Maxim Lieber to obtain 
for you covering credentials which would permit you to travel from 
Japan into China and Russia ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you attend a luncheon with Maxim Lieber, Charles 
Angoff, and Whittaker Chambers in which you discussed these cre- 
dentials and the purpose of them ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you receive a sum of money from an individual 
whom you knew as Keith to be used in connection with your opera- 
tions in Japan ? 



3582 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know the source of these funds ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Do you know Alger Hiss ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Didn't you meet Mr. and Mrs. Alger Hiss in the 
St. Paul Street Apartments, Baltimore, in the winter of 1934 ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Weren't you introduced by Whittaker Chambers to 
both Mr. and Mrs. Alger Hiss in the St. Paul Street Apartments? 

Mr. Sherman. In what city? 

Mr. Appell. Baltimore, Md. 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the same gi'ounds. 

Mr. Appell. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions ? Mr. Harrison ? 

Mr. Harrison. No. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Moulder? 

Mr. Moulder. I have a few questions. You stated at the beginning 
of your testimony that you were once engaged in the profession of 
teaching. How long ago was that ? 

Mr. Sherman. The school year previous to the present one, I was 
instructor of social science and dean of men at one of the smaller 
Los Angeles universities. 

Mr. Moulder. What is the name of the school ? 

Mr. Sherman. This is an executive session, is it not ? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. 

Mr. Sherman. Los Angeles University. 

Mr. Moulder. What was the last date of your employment? 

Mr. Sherman. Sometime toward the end of June, as I recollect. 

Mr. Moulder. Of this year? 

Mr. Sherman. Of the previous June. 

Mr. Moulder. 1949 ? 

Mr. Sherman. 1949. 

Mr. Moulder. Your employment then terminated, or did you 
resign ? 

Mr. Sherman. The school had great difficulties, and there was then 
a question of its continuation, and subsequently it was discontinued, 
the Le Plabre section of it was discontinued, and my employment 
terminated at that time. 

Mr. Mour.DER. And you have been unemployed since that time? 

Mr. Sherman. I would say practically so, with the exception of 
some small help that I could give. 

Mr. Moulder. What has been the source of your income or support 
since that time? 

Mr. Sherman. My wife has been employed most of this time and 
has been our only source of income. 

Mr. Moulder. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Velde ? 

Mr. Velde. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney? 

Mr. Kearney. I haven't any questions. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, I suggest you hold the witness over 
until tomorrow. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman, may I ask one more question ? 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMIVHTNIST ESPIONAGE 3583 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Moulder. 

Mr. Moulder. What school or schools are you a graduate of ? 

Mr. Sherman". I went to grade and high school and I am a graduate 
of Syracuse University. 

Mr. MouLTER. Syracuse, N. Y. ? 

Mr. Sherman. Syracuse University, Syracuse, N. Y. 

Mr. Moulder. Did you take an examination in California for a 
license to teach ? 

Mr. Sherman. University instructors require no licenses. 

Mr. Moulder. Thank you. 

Mr. Wood. You will be excused until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. 



HEAEINGS REGAKDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 



WEDNESDAY, MARCH 1, 1950 

United States House of Representatia^s, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. G. 

PUBLIC session 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10 : 20 a. m. in room 
226, Old House Office Building, Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) 
presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man), Francis E. Walter, and Bernard W. Kearney. 

Staff members preesnt: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Louis J. 
Russell, senior investigator; John W. Carriiigton, clerk; Benjamin 
Mandel, director of research; and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will come to order, please. 

Let the record disclose that for the purposes of this hearing the 
chairman has designated a subcommittee composed of Messrs Walter, 
Kearney, and Wood, and they are all present. 

Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. I assume, in view of the fact we are operating today 
under a subcommittee, whereas at the last hearing we had the full 
committee, I will swear the witness again. 

Will you stand please. You solemnly swear the testimony you will 
give this subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and noth- 
ing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Sherman. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. 

TESTIMONY OP JOHN LOOMIS SHERMAN 

Mr. Russell. Will you state your full name? 

Mr. Sherman. My name is John Loomis Sherman. By profession 
I am a teacher. During the previous year I was instructor in social 
science and the dean of men at one of the smaller universities in Los 
Angeles. In the current year, largely due to the activities of the 
FBI, I have been unable to obtain a teaching position. I should like 
at this time to make a slight correction for the record. It has been 
reported in the press and elsewhere, I think, that I have been in hiding. 
That is not correct. The FBI has known of my whereabouts and I 
think practically every detail of my life for years, for many years. 

Mr. Wood. Just a minute. The committee is not interested in going 
into the activities of the FBI at this moment, and I would appreciate 
if you would confine your testimony to answers to questions. There 

3585 



3586 HEARINGS REGARDmG COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

has been no accusation made here that you have been in hiding, so 
the statement you are making is irrelevant to the present hearing. 
I don't want to be discourteous to you, but merely want to conduct 
the hearing in an orderly way, Mr. Sherman. 

The irrelevant portions of the statement made by the witness that 
are not responsive to the question will be stricken from the record. 

Mr. EussELL. Mr. Sherman, you did say your name is John Loomis 
Sherman ? 

Mr. Sherman. That is correct. 

Mr. EussELL. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Sherman. I was born on a farm in a section now incorporated 
in the city of Utica, N. Y. 

Mr. EussELL. What is your present address? 

Mr. Sherman. 705 West Sixth Street, Los Angeles. 

Mr. EussELL. Mr. Sherman, you are appearing before the commit- 
tee by virtue of a subpena served on you February 8, 1950, by Deputy 
United States Marshal Eoss, of Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Sherman. I believe that is correct. 

Mr. EussELL. Will you furnish the committee with a record of your 
past employment, beginning about the year 1935 ? 

Mr. Sherman. As nearly as I can remember, I have been engaged 
in various activities : Newspaper work ; I was a union organizer for 
some time ; I was a teacher throughout that period ; I was employed as 
a cab driver for several years; I was on the WPA for a number of 
years ; I was employed as a night watchman at Camp Pendleton near 
Oceanside ; and more recently, as I explained, I have been an instruc- 
tor at one of the smaller universities. There may have been other 
activities that escape me, but I believe that about covers it. 

]\Ir. EussELL. Were you ever employed by the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Sherman. In meeting this question, may I explain that within 
the week, within 8 clays, I was called as a witness before a Federal 
grand jury in Los Angeles? Many of the questions undoubtedly to 
be inquired here were there investigated. I was, as were the others 
in that hearing, sworn to an oath of secrecy. I do not know what 
I can reveal without incriminating myself, or without violating that 
oath of secrecy. 

Mr. Kearney. May I respectfully suggest the witness is not being 
asked to testify as to what transpired in the Federal grand jury room. 

Mr. Wood. Yes ; and further than that, the Chair will instruct the 
witness that no Federal grand jury or State grand jury has any 
authority in law to gag anybody from testifying to the truth before 
any legislative committee. With that instruction and information, 
will you answer the question ? 

Mr. Sherman. May I inquire of the chairman, is this committee 
able to grant me immunity concerning my testimony here? 

Mr. Wood. Certainly. 

Mr. Sherman. It is my understanding that since 1892 Congress has 
not had that authority to grant immunity. 

Mr. Wood. Every witness is immune from prosecution in any court 
by reason of testimony he may give before a legislative committee, 
that is true. 

Mr. Walter. And the decisions have gone so far as to hold he cannot 
be adjudged in contempt of court for testimony given before a con- 
gressional committee. 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE . 3587 

Mr. I&.AKNET. That is, if it is the truth. 

Mr. Wood. Yes. 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mr. RussEL. Have you ever been a member of the armed forces of 
the United States? 

Mr. SiiEmiAN. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Russell. Were you in the United States Navy ? 

Mr. Sherman. Yes, sir. I enlisted in the First World War in the 
United States Navy. 

Mr. Wood. What is your age, please, sir? 

Mr. Sherman. Fifty-four, sir. 

Mr. Russell. You stated a while ago that you had been a union 
organizer. By what union were you employed as an organizer? 

Mr. Sherman. I don't remember exactly, but I believe I was an 
organizer for the umbrella workers; for plumbers and plumbers' 
helpers ; and for traction workers. This dates back some twenty-odd 
years, and this is the best of my recollection. 

Mr. Wood. Affiliated with what national union? 

Mr. Sherman. I don't remember. I believe it was the A. F. of L. 
There was no CIO at that time. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever used 'the name "Robert Mitchell" ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer this question on the grounds 
that my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever write for the publication known as the 
Daily Worker under that name ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Wood. You understand, Mr. Sherman, that the committee is not 
accepting your statement that the answers to these questions would 
tend to incriminate you. You can decline to answer them if you 
desire, on what you claim to be that ground, but the question of 
whether you are protected in any future proceedings that may be 
brought against you would depend on a construction of whether you 
have sufficient reason to cloak yourself behind that ground. 

Mr. Sherman. If I may be permitted to comment on these ques- 
tions in a way that I think will still protect me, I think I can develop 
some important information here. 

Mr. Wood. You may comment if you will give an answer, but a 
comment without an answer would be useless and is something the 
committee would not be interested in. If you answer the question, 
you may make such comment or any explanation you desire that is 
pertinent to the question. With that understanding, do you still 
decline to answer the question ? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer the previous questions on 
the grounds stated. 

Mr. Russell. In 1939 were you employed as organizational secre- 
tary of the Medical Bureau and North American Committee to Aid 
Spanish Democracy ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. I may 
say this is the first time that question has come to my attention, but I 
decline to answer it. 

Mr. Russell. Were you ever employed as organizational secretary 
of the United American Spanish Aid Committee ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on similar grounds. 



3588 • HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. EussELL. Have you ever used the name "Arthur"? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EussELL. Have you ever used the name "Mike" ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EussELL. Have you ever used the name "Don," D-o-n? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EussELL. Are you acquainted with Max Bedacht ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

(Eepresentative Wood leaves; Eepresentative Walter presides dur- 
ing remainder of the session.) 

Mr. EussELL. Are you acquainted with an individual named "David 
Wliittaker Chambers" ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EussELL. Were you ever introduced to him under any name 
by Max Bedacht ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EussELL. Did you ever know an individual who was named 
"Lloyd Cantwell"? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EussELL. Is Lloyd Cantwell the same person as Whittaker 
Chambers ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EussELL. Did you ever attend a meeting with Whittaker Cham- 
bers which was also attended by two persons known as Herbert and 
Carl? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EussELL. Have you ever known an individual who used the 
name "Ulrich," U-1-r-i-c-h ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EiTSSELL. Have you ever known an individual who used the 
name of "Pete" ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EussELL. Was an individual known as Pete ever identified to 
you as being a person named "Keith" ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EussELL. Was Keith a photographer? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EussELL. Have you ever known Keith under any other name? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. EussELL. Do you know his true name? 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3589 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Does he live in California at the present time ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. May I explain that all of these questions and such answers 
as I might make are, in my conviction and belief, part of a pattern or 
frame-up which has already destroyed the reputation of one fine 
American and is now being extended, as the facts will ultimately 
prove, to frame others ? Many persons have been investigated ; I have 
been under constant investigation ; and I think the facts subsequently 
to be developed here will indicate this is part of the frame-up of a 
disordered mind. 

Mr. Kearney. Would the witness mind giving the name of that 
so-called fine American he speaks off? 

Mr. Sherman. I think in time I will do that. 

Mr. Kearney. Would you mind doinj^ it now? 

Mr. Sherman. I will exercise my privilege at this moment not to 
disclose it until further testimony is revealed which will substantiate 
my point of view. 

Mr. Walter. Don't you think this would be a very good opportunity 
to clarify the atmosphere and remove whatever stigma you think has 
been placed wrongfully on a fine American's name ? 

Mr. Sherman. I am convinced this will be done here before we are 
through, judging by what transpired at the executive session. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, have you ever been acquainted with a 
member of the Soviet underground who used the name "Bill" ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, I would like to read to you an excerpt 
from testimony given to this committee by Whittaker Chambers, as 
follows : 

One day Bill brought me in touch with Sherman again and Sherman described 
what he had to do. Sherman was t.o go to Tokyo to be the head of a Soviet under- 
ground group and he wanted me to organize for him the facade here which would 
make it possible for him to operate in Tokyo, which, as you know, is a very 
difficult operation. 

Is that statement true or false ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, you have indicated that there has been 
untruthful testimony concerning you. You are now being afforded an 
opportunity to refute that testimony. Do you wish to refute it? 

Mr. Sherman. I have not stated that there has been untruthful 
testimony. I have declined to answer that testimony. I think it 
should be understood, any statement I make, true or false, in relation 
to testimony such as has been developed, would put me in jeopardy, and 
I must exercise my constitutional right not to answer. 

Mr. Russell. You stated that ultimately the true facts will come 
out. 

Mr. Sherman. They are already coming out. 

Mr. Kearney. Without any assistance from the witness. 

Mr. Sherman. With every assistance that I can provide this com- 
mittee while protecting my own rights. 



3590 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, I would like to read another excerpt 
from the testimony of Whittaker Chambers : 

So I decided that since the London project was rocking along, the expedient 
thing was to use Maxim Lieber to front for the Tokyo operation. That was 
organized in the following way. Lieber and Sherman set up what was called the 
Amei-ican Feature Writers' Syndicate whose purpose it was to secure interesting 
material from abroad. As I understand it, Lieber went among various feature 
syndicates and various newspapers and tried to get various interests or sales 
in this kind of stuff, and Sherman went to work in Lieber's oflBce, had a desk 
there, and his name was written on the door and I think some stationery was 
got out and deposits were made, I think, in the Chemical Bank in New York in 
the name of the syndicate. These deposits were to finance the operation in 
Japan. Then Peters, who was in on most of this operation, supplied a birth 
certificate in the name of Charles Chase and, on the basis of that certificate, 
which was a perfectly legal document procured in the way I have described in 
earlier testimony, John Serman took out a passport and on that passport he 
traveled to Tokyo. 

Do you wish to affirm or deny the extract which I have just read to 
you from the testimony of Whittaker Chambers ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds of self-incrim- 
ination. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever known an individual named "J. Pe- 
ters"? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever used the name "Charles Chase" ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Were you ever associated with an enterprise known 
as the American Feature Writers' Syndicate ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you have anything to do with a bank account ia 
the Chemical Bank of New York City ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did the American Feature Writers' Syndicate have an 
account in the Chemical Bank of New York City ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been in Tolryo, Japan? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Do you know Maxim Lieber ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, I show you a photostatic copy of an 
application for passport made out in the name of Charles Francis 
Chase, and the acompanying oath of allegiance, which discloses that 
the Department of State issued passport No. 148071 to Charles Fran- 
cis Chase on September 2, 1934, which covered travel to Japan, China, 
and Soviet Russia, for business purposes. I ask if you are the in- 
dividual who executed this passport application ? 

Mr. Sherman. Will you state for the record again the year of this 
document ? 

Mr. Russell. 1934, September 22. 

Mr. Sherman. And what was the question ? 

Mr. Russell. I asked if you were the individual who executed that 
passport application. 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. I also show you the oath of allegiance executed at the 
same time as the passport application, and ask if you executed the oath 
of allegiance ? 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3591 

Mr. Sherman. What year do you refer to ? 

Mr. KussELL. 1934. 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Is that your photograph ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer. There is no way by which 1 
can determine whether that is my photograph. 

Mr. Kussell. Did you have that picture made ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Walter. Let me see that. 

(The document referred to was handed to Mr. Walter.) 

Mr. Walter. When were you born, Mr. Sherman 'i 

Mr. Sherman. October 19, 1895. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that this passport application 
and the oath of allegiance be introduced in the record as Sherman 
exhibits 1 and 2. , 

Mr. Walter. Without objection, they will be admitted. 

(The documents above referred to, marked, respectively, "Sherman 
Exhibit No. 1" and "Sherman Exhibit No. 2" are filed in connection 
with this record.) 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, I show you an application for registra- 
tion dated March 7, 1935, signed Charles F. Chase, Bunka Apart- 
ments, Tokyo, Japan. I ask if you executed that application for 
registration ^ 

Mr. Spierman, Wliat does this refer to ? Registration for what ? 

Mr. Russell. This document was obtained from the State Depart- 
ment, and 



Mr. Walter. Show it to the witness and let him examine it. He 
can determine what the purpose of it was. 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever reside in the Bunka Apartments in 
Tokyo, Japan ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Walter. When were you in Japan ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, this application for registration was 
executed before a vice consul in Tokyo, Japan, on March 7, 1935. There 
is a statement contained in the application for registration : "In event 
of death or accident notify Maxim Lieber, 545 Fifth Avenue, New 
York." 

Mr. Sherman. In whose name was this executed ? 

Mr. Russell. Charles F. Chase. 

Mr. Sherman. And what is the question I am asked ? 

Mr. Russell. I haven't asked the question. 

Mr. Sherman. I beg pardon, sir. 

Mr. Russell. I was stating a fact which appears on this application 
for registration. I wanted to ask you again, are you acquainted with 
Maxim Lieber ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever use the name Charles F. Chase? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever sign that name to any official documents ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decHne to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Chairman, I ask that this application for regis- 
tration be introduced in the record as Sherman Exhibit 3. 



3592 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Walter. Without objection, it is received. 

(The document above referred to, marked "Sherman Exhibit No. 3," 
is filed in connection with this record.) 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, have you ever received a passport from 
the State Department under the name of Charles Francis Chase? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Who was Charles Francis Chase ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. How many passports have you secured from the State 
Department for travel to Russia, under your own name or any other 
name? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever been to Russia ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. While you were in the Navy, were you ever in Russia ? 

Mr. Sherman. I believe that an expedition was sent — this is to the 
best of my recollection — an expedition was sent to Murmansk as part 
of the activities of the United States Navy. I believe it was Mur- 
mansk, if I remember correctly. 

Mr. Russell. Were you part of that expedition ? 

Mr. Sherman. I was on the ship as an enlisted man. I don't know 
what is meant by "expedition." I was on the ship, and we went ashore 
for a short time. 

Mr. Russell. When was that? 

Mr. Sherman. I believe it was 1918, as I recall. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever again visit Russia ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever known an individual by the name of 
Hideo Noda, H-i-d-e-o N-o-d-a, a Japanese-American and a portrait 
painter ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever seen Hideo Noda ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you know him prior to 1935 ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you know an individual by that name subsequent 
to 1935? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, at this point I would like to read fur- 
ther from the testimony of Whittaker Chambers. This testimony 
refers to a trip which Mr. Chambers said you made to Japan under 
the name of Charles B. Chase : 

Before he went, he gave me another task, which was to find for him an 
American Japanese who was connected with the highest Japanese circles and 
who would have easy social access to important people in Japan. I found for 
him Hideo Noda, who was a Japanese-American, I think born in California, a 
painter of considerable ability, who was at that time, I think, an apprentice of 
Diego Rivera. Noda was a Communist. Then, of course, I introduced Sherman 
and Noda, and, by separate routes, they traveled to Japan. 

Do you wish to deny or affirm that extract from the testimony of 
Wliittaker Chambers ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Is it true or false ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3593 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever travel to Japan witli Hideo Noda ? 
Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 
Mr. Russell.) Did you ever see Hideo Noda in Tokyo, J apan ? 
jNlr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 
Mr. Walter. Where did you see him ? 
Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 
Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, I would like to read further from the 
vestimony of Whittaker Chambers: 

I was ordered suddenly to dismantle the whole American end of the Japanese 
apparatus because an arrest had occurred and I assumed, of course, Sherman 
had been arrested in Japan. I was told to do this as quickly as possible. Rus- 
sians are not used to Americans, never will be. I, of course, liquidated the appa- 
I atus overnight and there was nothing left the next morning. I met Bill the next 
day and he said he hoped that I hadn't done anything about dismantling the 
apparatus because it was all a mistake, but the apparatus was gone completely, so 
they presently recalled Sherman from Tokyo. 

Is that statement true or false ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Russell. Is it true? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

Mv. Russell. Mr. Sherman, I would like to read to you further 
testimony given to this committee by Whittaker Chambers: 

I am now jumping out of the time period in order to complete the story. 

This testimony refers to you when Wliittaker Chambers uses "he" : 

He came back to the United States and was again put in touch with me. His 
orders were at that time to proceed to Moscow. Through Peters I again procured 
a birth certificate for him. I have forgotten the name. He went to Moscow. 
He was gone quite a while and I had the feeling he probably wovald never come 
back, but some time, I think in 1937, after Bykov was here or just before Bykov 
came, I have forgotten which, Sherman appeared unexpectedly one night in 
Lieber's apartment. He was extremely agitated and kept pacing the apart- 
ment and Lieber was present and insisted that we go out at once. We went out 
and the minute I got outside the door he grabbed my arm and said : "I will not 
work 1 hour longer for those murderers." He then told me he wanted me ta 
act as his agent personally and get through a message to the proper Soviet agents 
that he was separating himself from the apparatus and that he would return ta 
the open Communist Party. 

Do you recall having had such a meeting with Whittaker Chambers^ 
and making the statements described by him? 

Mr. Sherman. I must decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever know Colonel Bykov ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Russell. Were you ever in any apartment that may have been 
occupied by Maxim Lieber? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever visit Maxim Lieber in the company of 
Wliittaker Chambers? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Russell. Are you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. However, 
I may say, if the committee is interested in the comment, I will say 
that I have expressed my views freely, without hesitation, to my stu- 
dents and in my writings, and if the committee is at all interested I 
wi]] express my feelings here. 

Mr. Russell. I asked if you are a member of the Communist Party I 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 



3594 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr, Russell. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

Mr. EussELL. Have you ever been a member of the underground 
apparatus of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever engaged in espionage? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, this testimony refers to a visit which 
Mr. Chambers said you made to Moscow, and the testimony follows 
the previous testimony which I read to you. Quoting from Mr. Cham- 
bers' testimony : 

Perhaps I had better go into a little bit of the Moscow end of this story. 
When Sherman got to Moscow, they let him cool off for several months. Nobody 
came near him or did anything for him and had no communication with him. But 
he got around among various expatriates there and discovered they were all 
perfectly wretched and trying to get out of Russia. He made some kind of con- 
spiracy among the expatriates and, of course, it quickly got to the ears of the 
GPU and he was called up before a Colonel Uritsky who was reported to be the 
nephew of the old Uritsky who founded the GPU and who started the terror in 
the revolution. 

Sherman, of course, believed that he would be shot at the end of this meeting. 
So, he wrapped himself up — he had a cold — he wrapped his neck up in flannel 
and put on some perfectly vile-smelling medicine, and when this Uritsky ques- 
tioned him he gave perfectly crazy answers to the questions, and with this vile- 
smelling stuff and the crazy answers, Uritsky finally let him go. 

They let him go out, the understanding being — I suppose it was a resumption 
of the old threat in the ofiicial mind that he was to go to England and work in 
the Soviet apparatus there, but he was to come to the United States and set it up. 
However, when he got back here he decided he was through. He was not break- 
ing with the Communist Party but was simply breaking with the Russians and 
the underground. 

I carried this message to Bykov. Bykov, of course, was panic-stricken, and 
there was evidently some heavy communicating with ofiicial Russians and they 
finally agreed that Sherman should keep the money but that he should meet 
certain Russians — I presume they were NKVD people — in New York, and it was 
left at that. He refused to meet them. 

He said, "I am going to California, and you have to give me 1 day's jump on 
these people. Hold them off any way you can, but give me 1 day's jump on the 
train." 

So I did that. I didn't tell Bykov for a whole day that he had left. 
Of course, when Bykov discovered it, he was ready to kill me — as I expected 
he well might. He made me call up the manager of the apartment house, this 
furnished apartment house where Sherman had been living, which was, I think, 
called the Swiss Chalet, up on Riverside Drive, and Bykov, who at that time 
wasn't speaking English, crowded into this telephone booth to hear what the 
manager was saying over the telephone. 

This was part of the very bad relations that developed between Bykov and me. 
He was sure, and rightly so, that I had had a hand in Sherman's escape. Our 
relations were extremely bad, desperately bad, until Sherman showed up in 
California and got in contact with the Communist Party, and I suppose they en- 
circled him with NKVD people and let him alone and watched him. 

Mr. Sherman, do you wish to deny or affirm the testimony which I 
have just read to you as given to this committee by Whittaker 
Chambers? 

Mr. Sherman. If the committee will permit me at this time to com- 
ment upon this testimony, it is at this point I think we can develop 
some very important information. I will take just a moment. It is 
only in times of hysteria sucli as the present that we fail to analyze 
testimony of this sort. Here is the picture, according to this evidence : 
A person is left to cool off in Moscow. We see him next organizing 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3595 

a conspiracy in Russia, in the country where it has been reported an 
all-persuasive police system exists at every turn. This man organizes 
this conspiracy presumably to overthrow the Russian Government. 
He is caught, but he deceives these people, according to this testimony, 
but not quite. They still give him a sum of money, according to this 
testimony, to conduct activities in England. He comes here and gets 
around. He doesn't escape, but stays around to make contact with these 
people whom, according to this testimony, he has called murderers. 
But this isn't enough 

Mr. Walter. We have had enough of your own conclusions, Mr. 
Sherman. Do you wish to answer the question? 

Mr. Sherman. If the requirement is that I give a "Yes" or "No" 
reply, I decline to reply on the ground I may be incriminated. 

]Mr. Russell. What part of the testimony is true ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Have you ever met Colonel Uritsky ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you have a conference with him in Moscow at any 
time ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever live in the Swiss Chalet in New York 
City? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. May I say 
it is only our failure to analyze these things that prevents us from 
seeing that we are dealing here with a disordered mind 

Mr. Walter. That is enough. We will analyze this and leave you to 
answer the questions that are asked. We will analyze what you say 
with the other information we have. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever flee from New York to California be- 
cause you were fearful something might happen to you ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever request Whittaker Chambers to defer 
relaying knowledge to Colonel Bykov for a day so that you could ffto- 
ceed to California without anybody knowing it for at least 24 hours? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Sherman, I would like to ask you, were you ever 
a member of the Communist Party underground in this country or any 
other country ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. Were you ever a member of the Red Army Intelli- 
gence ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, a former member of the Soviet Army 
Intelligence, or a person associated with them, testified in executive 
session on Monday of this week that you were a member of the Red 
Army Intelligence. Is that true or false? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever leave New York and go to California by 
train ? 

Mr. Sherman. I imagine I have gone by train to California from 
New York. 

Mr. Russell. How many times? 

Mr. Sherman. I cannot recall at this time. 



3596 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever notify Whittaker Chambers you were 
making such a trip ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, I previously asked you whether or not 
you were ever acquainted with an individual named Ulrich. 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Was Ulrich ever known to you as Walter ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Isn't it true that the correct name of Ulrich or Walter 
is -Alexander Petrovich Ulanovski ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr. Sherman, I previously asked you questions re- 
garding the American Feature Writers' Syndicate. Did that organ- 
ization file with the city of New York a registration of trade name? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did the American Feature Writers' Syndicate have a 
bank account in the Chemical Bank of New York City? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you sign the deposit account as an officer of the 
American Feature Writers' Syndicate ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever know an individual who used the name 
Paul? 

Mr. Sherman. Did I ever know an individual 

Mr. Russell. Who used the name Paul. 

Mr. Sherman. I probably have known many individuals named 
Paul. 

Mr. Russell. Was Maxim Lieber known to you as Paul ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever request Maxim Lieber to obtain for you 
covering credentials which would permit you to travel from Japan 
into China and Russia under another name ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you attend a luncheon with Maxim Lieber and 
Whittaker Chambers in which you discussed your purpose in secur- 
ing such credentials ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever receive any money from any person 
connected with the Soviet Government in any capacity whatsoever ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you receive a sum of money from an individual 
whom you knew as Keith to be used in connection with your operations 
in Japan? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever meet Whittaker Chambers in Balti- 
more, Md. ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. Are you now employed ? 

Mr. Sherman. I am unemployed. 

Mr. Kearney. How long have you been unemployed ? 

Mr. Sherman. Almost entirely so since June of 1949. 

Mr. Kearney. You answered, in response to the question of counsel 
whether you were a member of the Comumnist Party, that you declined 
to answer on the ground it might incriminate you ? 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3597 

Mr. Sherman. Yes. 

Mr. Kearney. Is it a crime, in your own mind, to be a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

JSIr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the gi'ohnd stated. 

Mr. Kearney. Would you mind answering "Yes" or " No" ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Russell. Are you acquainted with Alger Hiss ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. May I 
say, however, that I would regard it as a great privilege to have the 
acquaintance of ]Mr. Alger Hiss. 

Mr. Walter. Of course, that implies that you don't know him. 

Mr. Sherman. I am confident that Mr. Alger Hiss would not know 
nie from Adam. 

Mr. Russell. Would you know him from Adam ? 

Mr. Sherman. I would, of course. His picture has been in all the 
papers. 

Mr. Russell. Did you ever meet him in the St. Paul Street Apart- 
ments in Baltimore, Md., in the winter of 1934? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Walter. Why do you feel it would incriminate you to answer 
whether you have met him? 

Mr. Sherman. Not answering this question directly, may I say we 
are dealing here with a pattern or a frame-up the ends of which, the 
implications of which, I have no way of understanding, and it may 
implicate me and others in a pattern which is now being revealed and 
I think ultimately will be clearly understood for what it is. 

Mr. Walter. What do you think you might be implicated in if you 
would answer some of these questions ? 

Mr. Sherman.. I do not know for certain, but I am entirely sure in 
my own mind that we are dealing here with the frame-up of a dis- 
ordered mind. 

Mr. Walter. No; that is not the fact. That may be your own im- 
pression of what we are dealing with. What I am interested in is what 
you feel you may be connected with that may in somewise reflect on 
your loyalty as an American citizen if you should answer some of these 
questions. 

Mr. Sherman. I have already explained I was under investigation, 
possibly still am, by a Federal grand jury. The question of the truth 
or falsity of my testimony is not a protection, in view of the fact that 
there may be counter testimony, truthful or untruthful to any degree, 
and my only protection, obviously, is to exercise my constitutional 
privilege. 

Mr. Russell. Were you ever introduced to Mr. and Mrs. Alger Hiss 
in the St. Paul Street Apartments in Baltimore, Md., by Wliittaker 
Chambers ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Mr, Sherman, what is the bit of evidence that would 
implicate you, and in what ? 

Mr. Sherman. I have explained any testimony I might give here, 
to which there might be counter testimony which a jury would be- 
lieve, would jeopardize me to a charge of perjury. I therefore must 
exercise my constitutional right not to testify. 

Mr. Russell. Wliat part of the testimony given by Mr. Whittaker 
Chambers about you is true, and what part is false ? 



3598 HEARINGS REGARDING COMIMUNIST EiSPIONAGE 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Is any of it true ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Russell. Is any of it false ? 

Mr. Sherman. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. Don't you think this is the time for you to speak the 
truth ? 

Mr. Sherman. In the long run the truth will prevail, but in the 
short run people have been convicted and jailed for telling the truth. 
I believe, as a philosophical and perhaps religious conviction, that 
in the long run the truth will prevail. 

Mr. Russell. I have no further questions in open session. 

Mr. Walter. Thank you, Mr. Sherman. 

Mr. Russell. I have two questions in executive session. 

Mr. Walter. The committee will stand in recess for 15 minutes. 

(Thereupon, at 11 : 10 a. m., a recess was taken in the public session 
until 11 : 30 a. m., at which time the following announcement was 
made:) 

Mr. Tavenner. There will be no further open hearings today. 

(Thereupon, the public hearing was adjourned and the subcom- 
mittee went into executive session.) 



HEARINGS EEGAEDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 



TUESDAY, JUNE 13, 1950 

United States House of Representati^'es, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

ON Un-Americax AcTR^rriES, 

Washington, D. G. 
EXEcuTrvT: session 

The siibcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10 : 30 a. m. in room 226, 
Old House Office Building, Hon. Francis E. Walter presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter, 
Burr P. Harrison (arriving as noted), and Morgan M. Moulder (ar- 
riving as noted) . 

Staff members present, Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Donald 
T. Appell and William A. Wheeler, investigators. 

Mr. Walter. Let the record show this hearing is being conducted 
hy a subcommittee consisting of Messrs. Harrison, Moulder, and Wal- 
ter. 

Eaise your right hand, please. You svear the testimony you are 
about to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing'but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. LncBER. I do. 

Mr. Walter. Be seated, please. Are yon represented by counsel? 

Mr. Friedman. Shall I note my appearance ? 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mr. Friedmax. Milton H. Friedman, 522 Fifth Avenue, New York. 

TESTIMONY OF MAXIM IIEBER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS ATTORNEY, 

MILTON H. FRIEDMAN 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Maxim Lieber ? 

Mr. Lieber. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that your full name? 

Mr. Lieber. That is my full name ; yes. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. "Wlien and where were you born ? 

Mr. Lieber. I was born in Warsaw, Poland, October 15, 1897. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you briefly outline your educational back- 
ground ? 

]\Ir. Lieber. I arrived here in February 1907; attended public 
schools in New York City; attended Townsend Harris Hall, which 
was at that time a part of New York City College, but which has been 
abandoned ; transferred to Morris High School in the Bronx, N. Y. ; 
and that was the extent of my formal education. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized citizen ? ' 

3599 



3600 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. LiEBER. Yes, sir. I was naturalized in tlie city of Washington 
during the period of the war. I was stationed at Camp Meade. I was 
in the replacement battalion in the medical service and was brought 
to Washington for naturalization. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the date ? 

Mr. LiEBER. July 1919. May I make it clear, I say July 1919; it 
may have been June 1919. 

Mr. Tavenner. The approximate date is sufficient. 

Mr. LiEBER. That is approximate. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Lieber, will you briefly outline your occupa- 
tional background, including the names of all writers syndicates and 
publishing houses of which you have either been an officer or an em- 
ployee or to whom you have been under contract for articles? 

Mr. Lieber. I am a literary agent. I have been a literary agent since 
JNIay 1930. Prior to that I was with Brentano's, where I was in charge 
of the publishing department. I was in charge of the publishing 
department at Brentano's from 1926 until May 1930. The reason for 
my separation fi'om the firm is that the firm went into involuntary 
bankruptcy, due to expansion and depression and so on. 

Prior to that I had edited a book, an anthology of short stories, 
which I am happy to say is in the Library of Congress. With the 
advance which the publisher had paid me, I went abroad. I came 
back in March 1926 and worked for Brentano's. Prior to that I had 
a publishing house of my own, Lieber & Lewis. That was shortly 
after I came out of the Army. I was a sergeant in the Medical Corps 
at Walter Reed Hospital prior to that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Beginning with the year 1930 you say you have 
been a literary agent ? 

Mr. Lieber. Yes. I have been operating as a literary agent or 
authors' representative since May 1930, and have continued to do 
so ever since, and I hope I shall continue to do so. 

INIr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names of the writers syndicates 
and publishing houses by which you may have been employed or of 
which you may have been an officer ? 

Mr. Lieber. I do not represent any publishing houses. I represent 
authors. In fact, all literary agents represent authors, not publish- 
ing houses. Their function is to act as intermediaries in selling 
literary articles. If you should write a book and be good enough 
to send it to me, I would read it and try to exploit its sales possibili- 
ties to a magazine or publishing house. All of us agents operate 
on a commission basis. I do not represent any publishers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then, as I understand, the only instances in which 
you have been an employee of a writers syndicate or publishing house 
were those you mentioned prior to 1930 ? 

Mr. Lieber. That is true. Prior to 1930 I worked for Brentano's; 
and also worked for a brief period before that for a small publishing 
house, but to l)e honest with you, I can't even remember its name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that mean that since 1930 you have not been 
an officer of any publishing house or writers syndicate organization? 

Mr. Lieber. I would decline to answer that on the grounds of self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at one time an officer of the American 
Feature Syndicate? 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3601 

Mr. LiEBER. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds it would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Possibly I did not give the name exactly correct. 
The organization to which I referred was the American Feature 
Writers' Syndicate. Have you ever been an officer of that 
organization ? 

Mr. LiEBER. That would be the same question, and I would decline 
to answer it on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a literary agent since 1930, you, of course, have 
represented a number of writers ; is that true ? 

Mr. Leeber. Well, I don't want to seem boastful, but I haven't rep- 
resented a great number of writers because I have been rather selec- 
tive. I would say that in the course of the 20 years which have just 
gone bv in May, I may have represented about 30 writers. 

Mr. Walter. Thirty? 

Mr. LiEBER. Approximately 30, more or less. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. What are the names of some of the more prominent 
writers ? 

Mr. Leeber. I think the most distinguished writer I have on my 
list is Mr. Erskine Caldwell, whose books have sold over 20,000,000 
copies the last 12 years, although I have represented him since 1931. 
He is the author of many novels and short stories which are world 
famous and have made their mark. I think every department of Eng- 
lish giving courses in American literature has been compelled to rank 
him as one of the three leading American writere in the last century. 
He will definitely go down in history in literature. 

Among some of my other writers there is Carey McWilliams, who 
was an attorney, and although he has not practiced in some years he 
wrote a book entitled "Factories in the Field" which dealt with agi'i- 
cultural problems in California. I don't think he is very well liked 
for the book, because it was an attack on the kind of peonage that 
existed in California. He was in the government in California. He 
was, I believe, the Commissioner of Immigration in Governor Olsen's 
administration, before Governor Warren. He has written about half 
a dozen books. Just this week I signed a contract with Little, Brown 
& Co. of Boston for a new book. 

(Representative Moulder enters hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Any others? 

Mr. LiEBER. Robert Coates, who is art critic of the New Yorker 
magazine. He has written four books of considerable quality and 
some significance. He is published by Harcourt Brace. He has done 
a good many short stories as well. His last book was a psychological 
thriller called Wisteria Cottage. 

That gives you an idea of some of the people I represent. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee how the American 
Feature Writers' Syndicate was formed and the purpose of that or- 
ganization, if you know? 

Mr. Lieber. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Lieber, I have some difficulty in understanding 
how your description to this committee of the manner in which it was 
formed could tend to incriminate you. 

(Representative Moulder leaves hearing room.) 



3602 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). I think there is an obligation on your 
part to at least give some information to the committee which would 
indicate that there is a possibility of your answer tending to incrimi- 
nate you. 

Mr. Friedman. Will you excuse us a moment ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

(Witness confers with Mr. Friedman.) 

Mr. Lieber. By advice of counsel I adhere to the answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the name of any officer or director of 
the American Feature Writers' Syndicate? 

Mr. Lieber. I am obliged to decline to answer that question on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the American Feature Writers' Syndicate main- 
tain a bank account in the Chemical Bank of New York City ? 

Mr. Lieber. I am obliged to decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of self-incrimination. 

Mr. Walter. Why do you feel it would incriminate you to answ^er 
a question as to whether or not a bank account had been maintained? 

Mr. Lieber. Well, if you please, sir, that seems to be a related 
question. 

Mr. Walter. Related to what? 

Mr. Lieber. Related to the prior question which I respectfully de- 
clined to answer on the grounds of self-incrimination. 

(Witness confers with Mr. Friedman.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any connection yourself with the bank 
account of that organization, either as an agent or as an employee or 
as an officer of the American Feature Writers' Syndicate ? 

(Witness confers with Mr. Friedman.) 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the American Feature Writers' Syndicate main- 
tain an office and representative in Japan? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Lieber, do you know Whittaker Chambers? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Ta\"enner. Did you know him by the name of Lloyd Cant- 
well? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know an individual by the name of John 
Loomis Sherman ? 

Mr, Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did you last see John Loomis Sherman? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

]Mr. Tavenner. How could an answer to that question tend to in- 
criminate you? 

Mr. Lieber. Well, sir, that seems to be related. If you ask me 
when did I see this gentleman who just walked in last, and I had 
previously told you I did not want to tell you if I knew this gen- 
tleman, I would be giving you a half truth and an untruth. 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3603 

(Witness confers with Mr. Friedman.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know John Loomis Sherman under the 
name of Charles Francis Chase ? 

Mr. Libber. I respectfully decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of self-incrimination. 

Mr. Ta\\enner. Did you, together with Whittaker Chambers and 
John Loomis Sherman, take part in the organization of the American 
Feature Writers' Syndicate? 

Mr. LiEBER. I decline to answer that, sir, on the grounds of self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Ta\"enner. Was John Loomis Sherman sent to Japan as a 
rej) resent ative of the American Feature Writers' Syndicate? 

Mr. LiEBER. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the grounds 
of self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavgenner. Mr. Lieber, Whittaker Chambers has testified be- 
fore this committee and before the United States District Court for 
the Southern District of New York that you and he set up, together 
with John Loomis Sherman, the American Feature Writers' Syndicate, 
and that the Syndicate's account in the Chemical Bank of New York 
City contained both his name and your name on its account. Do you 
deny this testimony ? 

]\Ir. Lieber. I decline to answer the question, sir, on the grounds 
of self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Lieber, did the American Feature Writers' Syn- 
dicate register with the Board of Trade in New York City ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tamsnner. Did you, along with Whittaker Chambers, using the 
name of Lloyd Cantwell, and John Loomis Sherman, using the name 
of Charles Francis Chase, file a registration of trade for the American 
Feature Writers' Syndicate ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

(Representaive Moulder reenters hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Lieber, on March 7, 1935, Charles Francis 
Chase executed an application for registration in Tokyo, Japan, on 
which he gave his legal residence in the United States as 545 Fifth 
Avenue, New York City, and your name at the same address as a per- 
son who should be contactecl in the event of death or accident to 
Charles Francis Chase. Do you, in view of this evidence, deny knowl- 
edge of or acquaintanceship wnth Charles Francis Chase, either under 
the assumed name or his actual name of John Loomis Sherman ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was your office in New York City ? 

Mr. Lieber. At one time it was 55 West Forty-second Street; at 
another time it was 545 Fifth Avenue ; and more recently it was 489 
Fifth Avenue. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Over what period of time did you maintain an office 
at 545 Fifth Avenue, New York City? 

Mr. Lieber. From about 1931 or 1932 to 1944 or 1945. Those dates 
must be regarded as approximate, because without looking at leases 
I couldn't tell. Those are fairly close dates. 



3604 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Tavenner. During 1935 did the American Feature Writers' 
Syndicate also send to Japan as one of its representatives Hideo Noda, 
a Japanese-American portrait painter ? 

Mr. LiEBER. I decline to answer on the ground of self-incrimination. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. In 1937 did you meet with John Loomis Sherman 
and Whittaker Chambers in your apartment in New York City fol- 
lowing Sherman's return from Moscow ? 

Mr. LiEBER. I decline to answer the question, sir, on the ground of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Colonel Bykov ? 

Mr. LiEBER. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Alexander Stevens, alias J. Peters? 

Mr. LiEBER, I decline to answer the question on the grounds of self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever use the name "Paul" as an identifying 
name ? 

Mr. LiEBER. I decline to answer the question, sir, on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you obtain credentials for John Loomis Sher- 
man as a long-standing reporter and writer ? 

Mr. LiEBER, I decline to answer the question, sir, on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a luncheon with Charles Angoff and 
Whittaker Chambers at which you discussed the matter of obtaining 
credentials for Sherman ? 

Mr. LiEBER. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of self- 
incrimination, 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time own or lease property in the 
State of Pennsylvania ? 

Mr. LiEBER. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state the time and the location of the 
property ? 

Mr. LiEBER, I had a farm in Ferndale, Bucks County. It was 103 
acres. It was bought through an agent by the name of Joseph or John 
Strand, I am not sure of this first name ; I think it was John Strand. 
I had that from sometime in the thirties, I am not clear whether it 
was 1935 or 1936, and sold the farm because it was inaccessible during 
the war in 1944 or 1945. 

Mr, Tavenner. Have you at any time owned or leased any other 
land or property in Pennsylvania ? 

Mr, LiEBER. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Walter. Why do you feel that it might be self-incriminating 
for you to answer the question as to whether or not you ever owned 
any other real estate ? 

(Witness confers with Mr. Friedman.) 

Mr. LiEBER. Mr. Walter, I was subpenaed before the grand jury of 
New York City, as the committee is probably fully aware, and I had 
occasion to testify at the grand jury hearings on two occasions. Sub- 
sequent to that, there were two trials in New York City, as is also 
known to the committee, and certain things have occurred. I feel I 
am not being capricious, because certainly the constitutional grounds 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3605 

on which I claim a certain privilege are valid under the circumstances, 
because certain hazards are clear, are manifest. 

(Representative Moulder leaves hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you still decline to answer the question? 

Mr. LiEBER. Yes ; I certainly do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Whittaker Chambers ever a guest at the farm 
which you described as having owned? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he ever a guest at any other property that you 
owned or leased in the State of Pennsylvania ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on similar grounds, 
sir. 

(Representative Harrison enters hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Alger Hiss or his wife, 
Priscilla Hiss ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Was either Alger or Priscilla Hiss, or both of them, 
guests at your farm in Pennsylvania or at any other property owned 
by you or leased by you in the State of Pennsylvania or any other 
place ? 

(Witness confei-s with Mr. Friedman.) 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that on the grounds of self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Alger Hiss to be a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time acquainted with Otto Katz, 
K-a-t-z? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the ground of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever a literary agent for Otto Katz ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Mrs. Otto Katz, whose first name was 
Hse, I-l-s-e? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know either Mr. or Mrs. Katz to be a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you advised in July 1943, by Mrs. Katz, that 
her husband and Vincente Lombardo Toledano had gone to Cuba 
to attend a conference of Latin- American workers? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever contribute to the publication Freies 
Deutschland which was published in Mexico during the war? 

Mr. Lieber. When you say did I ever contribute, what do you mean 
by that, sir ? 

Mr. Friedman. Financially ? 



3606 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 

Mr. Tavenner. No ; contributed an article. 

Mr. LiEBER. I can't remember. I am sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the publisher of that publication? 

Mr. Lieber. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it Anna Seghers ? 

Mr. Lieber. I would not know. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will ask you to try to recall whether or not she 
was the publisher of that publication. 

Mr. Lieber. I would not be able to know the answer to that question. 
I just would not be able to know the answ^er. I do know that there 
were a tremendous number of refugee writers in Mexico. I knew they 
had publishing houses. Who the publisher or responsible manager 
was, I would not know, any more than I would know who the directors 
were of some of our own publishing houses. 

Mr. Tavenner. You know Anna Seghers ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Erwin Kisch ? 

(Witness confers with Mr. Friedman.) 

Mr. Lieber. On advice of counsel I decline to answer that question 
on the grounds of self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever represent him as a literary agent ? 

Mr. Lieber. I am obliged to decline to answer that question too. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Kisch ever visit you in New York City ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. In fact, did he not visit you in December of 1945 
when he had entered the United States from Mexico en route to 
Czechoslovakia ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere were you living in New York City in De- 
cember 1945 ? 

Mr. Lieber. At 280 — I haven't been living there for sometime, so I 
am trying to remember — Riverside Drive, New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was your office at that time, in December 
1945? 

Mr. Lieber. I believe it was already at 489 Fifth Avenue. I say T 
believe it was already at 489. I had been at 545 and subsequently 
moved to 489 Fifth Avenue. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Lieber, Mr. Easch, in an application for a transit 
visa through the United States which he executed in Mexico on Octo- 
ber 23, 1945, listed as a New York friend when he intended to visit en 
route, Maxim Lieber, 489 Fifth Avenue, New York. Did he so visit 
you ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the gi-ounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted at any time with the husband 
of Anna Seghers, Dr. Laszlo Radvanyi ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever act as literary agent for Anna Seghers ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ESPIONAGE 3607 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know either or both of them to be members 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. LiEBEK. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Osmond K. Fraeckel ? 

(Witness confers with Mr. Friedman.) 

Mr. LiEBER. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Wieland Herzf elde ? 

Mr. LiEBER. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Mr. Herzf elde is a book re- 
viewer for Simon and Shuster? 

Mr. LiEBER. I do not know it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Citizens Committee To De- 
fend Kepresentative Government? 

Mr. LiEBER. I don't think so. 

Mr. Ta\"enner. I hand you an advertisement appearing in the Feb- 
ruary 19, 1948, issue of the New York Times, w^hich I will have marked 
for identification "Lieber Exhibit No. 1," and ask you to examine it 
and see if you do not find thereon that your name is listed as author's 
representative of the Citizens Committee To Defend Kepresentative 
Government. I will ask you if that does not refresh your recollection. 
The advertisement contains a list of names of persons signing a peti- 
tion to Mayor O'Dwyer for the seating of Simon W. Gerson, a member 
of the Communist Party, to succeed Peter V. Cacchione as councilman. 
Does the examination of "Lieber Exhibit No. 1" refresh your recollec- 
tion ? 

(The advertisement above referred to, marked "Lieber Exhibit No. 
1" for identification only, is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Lieber. No. I have no recollection of any membership in such 
an organization. The name means absolutely nothing to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you authorize the use of your name as a mem- 
ber of that committee ? 

Mr. Lieber. May I look at it again? 

Mr. Tavenner. Surely. 

Mr. Lieber. Sometimes people ask me if I want to sign a document, 
and sometimes people just put my name on it. I sincerely can't recall 
whether I was asked to sign this petition or whether I was not asked 
to sign this petition and my name was used nevertheless. I can't say. 

Mr. Tavenner. You do recall whether or not you supported the 
movement to seat Mr. Simon W. Gerson ; do you not ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. I hand you the April 22, 1946, issue of the Daily 
Worker, which I will ask to have marked for identification "Lieber 
Exhibit No. 2," and point out to you an article entitled "Noted Artists, 
Professionals Back May Day; Parley Spurs Parade Preparations," 
in which your name appears. Will you examine that issue ? I would 
like for you to examine the list of names there appearing along with 
your name. Do you know any of those individuals ? 

(The paper above referred to, marked "Lieber Exhibit No. 2" for 
identification only, if filed herewith.) 



3608 HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST ElSPIONAGE 

Mr, LiEBER. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you authorize the use of your name in connec- 
tion with that publication ? 

Mr. LiEBER. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you sponsor or in any way back the Communist 
Party's May Day conference? 

Mr. LiEBER. 1 decline to answer on the grounds of self-incrimina- 
tion. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is the conference referred to in that publica- 
tion. 

Mr. LiEBER. I decline to answer on the grounds of self-incrimina- 
tion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Lieber, I now hand you the May 25, 1948 issue 
of the Daily Worker, which I ask to be marked "Lieber Exhibit 
No. 3." 

Mr. Walter. Let it be so marked. 

(The publication above referred to, marked "Lieber Exhibit No. 
3" for identification only, is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Tavenner. This issue contains an article entitled "Culture 
Against War Makers," and in the course of this article you are named 
as one of the sponsors of a mass demonstration of writers and artists 
against the Mundt bill and the "war makers." Will you examine the 
article and observe that your name is one of those listed, and will you 
examine the list of names listed along with your name and state 
whether or not any of those persons are known to you ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer on the grounds of self-incrimina- 
tion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you authorize the use of your name in connec- 
tion with that publication ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that on the grounds of self-incrim- 
ination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you sponsor the mass demonstration referred 
to in that article ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know an individual by the name of David 
Breen ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Wliittaker Chambers used 
the name of David Breen on any occasion ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of a passport appli- 
cation in the name of David Breen — David Breen, according to the 
testimony of Whittaker Chambers, being an alias used by him — in 
which he gives the address of the person to whom the passport should 
be mailed as David Breen, in care of M. Lieber, 545 Fifth Avenue, 
New York City. I ask that this passport application be marked for 
identification "Lieber Exhibit No. 4." 

Mr. Walter. Let it be so marked. 

(The document above referred to, marked "Lieber Exhibit No. 4" 
for identification only, is filed lierewith.) 



HEARINGS REGARDING COMMUNIST iESPIONAGE 3609 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the photostatic copy and state 
whether or not that passport was received by you at jour address, 
or by any other person at that address ? 

Mr. LiEBER. I decline to ansv/er the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Walter. Is that your address, Mr. Lieber? 

Mr. Lieber. 545 Fifth Avenue was my address. 

Mr. Tavenner, Mr. Lieber, I asked you several questions relating 
to a person by the name of John Loomis Sherman, who used the alias 
Charles F. Chase, and you declined to answer questions relating to 
him. I now hand you a photostatic copy of an application for pass- 
port signed by Charles F. Chase, which I ask be marked for identi- 
fication only as "Lieber Exhibit No. 5." Please examine the passport 
application, and particularly the photograph appearing thereon, and 
state whether or not that is John Loomis Sherman ? 

(The document above referred to, marked "Lieber Exhibit No. 5" 
for identification only, is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question, sir, on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Lieber, have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that on the grounds of self-incrimi- 
nation. 

Mr, Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Have you at any time been the literary agent of 
KyleCrichton? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been the literary agent of Louis 
Adamic? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer the question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Howard Fast ? 

Mr. Lieber. Never. 

Mr. Tavenner. V. J. Jerome ? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer on the grounds of self-incrimi- 
nation. 

Mr. Tavenner. Paul Robeson? 

Mr. Lieber. I decline to answer on the grounds of self-incrimi- 
nation. 

]Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. Any questions, Mr. Harrison ? 

Mr. Harrison. No questions. 

Mr. Walter. That is all. 

(Thereupon, at 11 : 45 a. m. on Tuesday, June 13, 1950, an adjourn- 
ment was taken.) 

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