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Full text of "Hearings relating to Communist activities in the defense area of Baltimore. Hearings"









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HEARINGS RELATING TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES 

IN THE DEFENSE AREA OF BALTIMORE-PART 1 

(Based on the Testimony of Mary Stalcup Markward) 

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HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-SECOND CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



JUNE 19, 20, 21, 26, 27, 28, JULY 11 AND 13, 1951 



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nted for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 





UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
86629 WASHINGTON : 1951 



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COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives 

JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman 

FRANCIS B. WALTER. Pennsylvania HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois 

MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York. 

CLYDE DOYLE, C.ilifornia DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

JAMES B. FRAZIER, JR., Tennessee CHARLES B. POTTER, Michigan 

Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel 

Louis J. Russell, Senior Investigator 

John W. Carrington, Clerk of Committee 

Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 

n 



CONTENTS 



July 11, 1951— P^^« 

Testimony of Mary Stalcup Markward 740 

June 19, 1951— 

Testimony of Herbert Kransdorf 789 

June 20, 1951— 

Testimony of Michael Howard 797 

June 21, 1951— 

Testimony of — . 

Joseph P. Henderson 812 

PhihpGran 823 

, WiUiam H. Wood 831 

June '26, 1951— 

Testimony of — 

Leyy WiUiamson 84 1 

Robert W. Lee 846 

Louis Pearlman 849 

Pet^r Edward Forrest 853 

June 27, 1951— 

Testimony of — 

Aaron Ostrofsky 857 

Trying Kandel 869 

June 28, 1951— 

Testimony of — 

Sam Fox 879 

Eh Isidore Schwartz 887 

July 13, 1951— 

Testimony of — 

Herbert J. Nichol 891 

Milton Seif 900 

Irving Winkler 901 

III 



HEAKIN(^S RELATING TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN 
THE DEFENSE AREA OF BALTIMORE— PART 1 

(Based on the Testimony of Mary Stalciip Markward) 



WEDNESDAY, JULY 11, 1951 

United States House of Representative's, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. C. 

public hearing 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to ad- 
journment, at 10 : 45 a. m. in room 226, Old House Office Building, 
Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man), Francis E. Walter, Clyde Doyle (appearance as noted in tran- 
script), Jftoies B. Frazier, Jr., Harold H. Velde (appearance as noted 
in transcript), Bernard W. Kearney, Donald L. Jackson, and Charles 
E. Potter. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel ; Donald T. Appell, Courtney Owens, 
and James Andrews, investigators; Raphael I. Nixon, director of 
research; John W. Carrington, clerk; and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order. 

Let the record show that there are present the following members 
of the committee : Messrs. Walter, Frazier, Kearney, Jackson, Potter, 
and Wood, a quorum of the committee. 

We are necessarily operating under considerable difficulty due to 
lack of space here, and the rule of the committee has been uniformly 
that only cameras that take still pictures are permitted in the hearing 
room. I notice quite a lot of that kind here. I would like to ask 
the witness first : Do you object to having your picture taken? 

Mrs. Markward. It is all right. I realize they have to take them 
some time. 

Mr. Wood. I will ask you gentlemen to take all the pictures you 
desire so that the space may be cleared. 

Will you stand and be sworn, Mrs. Markward? 

Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this committee shall 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mrs. Markward. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Let the record show that Mr. Doyle, of the committee, is 
also present. 

All right, gentlemen. 

739 



740 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

(Photographers took pictures of the witness.) 

Mr. Wood. Let the record show that Mr. Velde, of the committee, is 
present. 

(Photographers continued to take pictures of the witness.) 

Mr. Wood. No more pictures. We will have to invoke the rule 
against all further pictures. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

TESTIMONY OF MARY STALCUP MARKWARD 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please? 

Mrs. Markward. Mary Stalcup Markward. 

Mr. Taat.nner. When and where were you born, Mrs. Markward ? 

Mrs. JNIarkward. I was born February 10, 1922, in Chesterbrook, Va. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you now live in Chesterbrook, Va. ? 

Mrs. Markward. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived there ? 

Mrs. Markward. I lived there all my life until 1940, and I lived in 
Washington between 1940 and 1947, and have been back in Chester- 
brook since that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you married ? 

Mrs. Markward. In August of 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give a brief statement to the committee, 
please, of your educational training? 

Mrs. Markward. I graduated from Central High School, Washing- 
ton, D. C, in June 1939. Upon the completion of that I attended 
a trade school, and I graduated as a beautician in 1940, in May. That 
is all the education I have had. 

Mr. Tavenner. After you completed your course as a beautician, 
what employment did you have ? 

Mrs. Markward. I went to work for the Kainbow Beauty Shop, 
at 2301 Fourth Street NE., and later worked for the same employer 
at 4807 Massachusetts Avenue NW. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you work there? 

Mrs. Markward. I worked there until September 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Markward, the committee was conducting hear- 
ings in December of 1950 relating to communism in the District of 
Columbia, and a witness by the name of Henry Thomas was called 
before the committee, and 1 desire to refer you to his testimony. This 
question was asked him : 

I was asking about your retiarn from the Army and your reaffiliation with the 
Communist Party at the noon recess. Will you tell us now the circumstances 
under which you reaffiliated with the Communist Party? 

Mr. Thomas' reply was : 

I received my discharge on the 6th day of December 1945, and the first couple 
of days I was out. of course, I was around the house, resting and so on, and after 
that i made my first contact with Mary Stalcup. To the best of my knowledge, 
she was the secretary or the treasurer of the Communist Party of the District 
of Columbia at that time. 

I notice you gave your name as Mary Stalcup Markward. Are 
you the Mary Stalcup to whom Heiuy Thomas referred? 

Mrs. Markward. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time that these hearings were being con- 
ducted in December 1950, the committee, in inquiring regarding you 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 741 

in the course of its investigation, learned tliat you had at one time 
been acting in an undercover capacity for another Government agency. 
Is that correct ^ 

Mrs. Markward. It is correct. I was acting in that capacity. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee what agency of the 
Government it was for which you were so acting ? 

Mrs. Markward. The Federal Bureau of Investigation. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVill you tell the committee in your own way just 
how you were employed to do that work, and what character of work 
it was ? 

Mrs. Markward. In early 1943 I was contacted at my home over 
the telephone by an agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, 
who asked for an appointment to see me. He did not state at that 
time what his business was. Subsequently I did see him, and — do you 
want me to go on I 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Markward. He explained to me the role that the Communist 
Party had played in the United States over the years. He stated to 
me tiiat at this time, on the surface, at least, they were in full accord 
with the United States so far as winning the war was concerned, but 
he had reason to believe that potentially the Communist Party was a 
danger to our American form of government. 

I thought over what he had to say for a period of time, at his in- 
sistence and my own, and I came to the conclusion that I could be of 
service to my Government should I volunteer to enter this organization 
and supply to my Government what information I could about what 
they were doing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then after you agreed to act in that capacity, what 
did you do? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, I obtained some copies of their publications 
on the streets, first, so that I could be somewhat acquainted with what 
they said they were doing, at least. 

I went to the party office on Ninth Street, Washington, D. C, in 
order to subscribe to the Daily Worker. While I was there, James 
Branca and Martin Chancey were in the office, and they received me 
quite warmly and discussed with me the good things the party was 
doing, and took my subscription to the Worker and sold me other 
literature. At the same time, they gave me an invitation to a party 
which was to be a celebration of a successful recruiting drive whicn 
had just ended, and a going-awa}' party for Martin Chancey, who was 
going in the service. 

My paper did not come, and I went back to the office on Ninth Street 
about a week or so later to complain about the service and to ask when 
the paper would come. Very much the same thing took place, and 
they asked me again to attend the party, and I did. 

When I got to the party, which was held at the Odd Fellows Hall, 
T believe, in the 400 block of Seventh Street, Casey Gurewitz and Bruce 
Minton were sitting in the back of the room. They asked me if I 
was a member of the party. I said I was not, so they said, "Well, we 
will do something about that." 

After the party was over, I was very much surprised to see a girl 
who had been a customer of mine in one of the beauty shops. She 
approached me and said, "Mary, what are you doing here?" 



742 coMiVnjNiST activities in Baltimore defense area 

We had some discussion, she introduced me to some of the people 
I had been talking to, and I was asked to sign an application card, 
which I did, and I was assigned to a club. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is not my purpose, Mrs. Markward, to go fully 
into the matter of the members of the Communist Party from the city 
of Washington and District of Columbia at this time, except to the 
extent that it is called for in testifying regarding your own activity 
while you were within the party. 

You spoke of a person who was a patron at a beauty shop. Who 
was she ? 

Mrs. Markward. She was Charlotte Young at that time. I believe 
her name is Oram now. She has been remarried. 

Mr. Tavenner. She appeared as a witness before this committee. 

Mrs. Markward. So I understand. 

Mr. Tavenner. And refused to testify concerning anything relat- 
ing to communism in the District of Columbia. 

Mrs. Markward. So I understand. 

Mr. Tavenner. Go on from there. 

Mrs. Markward. I said I was recruited. Do you want me to go on 
with my subsequent activities? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Tell us what positions you held in the Com- 
munist Party and what led up to your selection for those various 
positions. 

Mrs. Markward. I was assigned, at the time I was recruited, to 
the Northeast Club of the Communist Party. I attended a meeting very 
shortly, within a very few days, of that club, and after the club meet- 
ing I was asked to participate with other club members in the sale 
of the Sunday Worker. I did. For the first few weeks I was accom- 
panied by other club members, seeing how they sold the papers. Then 
I worked on my own. 

'The party approved of my activity and the interest I took in it, 
and in August of that year I was invited to attend the executive com- 
mittee meetings of the club. 

Even prior to this I had been invited to attend city council meetings, 
which were more or less meetings of all active members of the party. 

In October, I believe, I was elected press director of the Northeast 
Club, because of my activity in the sale of the papers. 

I believe subsequent to that I was invited to attend meetings of 
the city executive committee of the party here. 

In January 1944 I was elected club chairman, and because the club 
of which I was chairman had an excellent record in the recruiting 
drive that spring, I was selected to attend the national convention as 
a visitor. The city organization paid my expenses to that convention. 

This convention formed the Communist Political Association and 
dissolved the Communist Party. 

Upon my return to Washington, I was elected to the city commit- 
tee and held the position of city treasurer of the Communist Political 
Association. The position of treasurer included the duties of mem- 
bership director, because as treasurer I was responsible for the col- 
lection of dues. 

I held that position until the Communist Party was reorganized in 
October 1945. Again I was elected to the city committee, and again 
I was elected membership director. I for a short time acted as secre- 
tary-treasurer, but actually my chief role was treasurer. 



COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 743 

I was elected to the district committee of Maryland and the District 
<of Columbia at the district convention, which was prior to the city 
•convention here. 

Mr. Tavenner. The district comprised of the State of Maryland 
and the District of Columbia is known as district 4, isn't it? 

Mrs. ISIarkward. I think it is. When Dorothy Strange left her 
post in Washington, D, C, immediately after the city convention, she 
was removed from her post as a member of the district board, and 
then I became a member of the district board. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you spoke of Dorothy Strange being a mem- 
iDer of the district board, you meant a member of the district board of 
Maryland and the District of Columbia ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. I held this post until the con- 
vention of 1948. At this convention the membership of the board was 
greatly reduced for security reasons. I was then elected a member 
'of the district committee, but not of the district board. 

I was again elected to the city committee, and again elected treas- 
urer of the city committee, Washington, D. C. 

I believe that about covers my experience. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you continue your work in furnish- 
ing information to the Federal Bureau of Investigation acquired by 
jou as a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. I continued until sometime in the very last part 
of October 1949, when it became physically impossible for me to 
continue due to a severe attack of multiple sclerosis. 

Mr. Tavenner. You remained at your post as long as your health 
permitted you to do so ? 

Mrs, Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. And that was up until October of what year ? 

Mrs. Markward. 1949. 

Mr. Ta\t3nner. And since that time you have not been able to 
function in your previous capacity ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. As an undercover agent for the Federal Bureau 
of Investigation? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did j^ou take any formal action of any kind after 
your illness to remove yourself from the rolls of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Markward. I did not. I paid my dues up through January 
1950, and because I had no subsequent contact with the party, I did 
not pay any additional dues. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the Communist Party take any action, to your 
knowledge, regarding your membership? 

Mrs. Markward. They never told me about any action they had 
taken. I understand they did publish something in the newspaper, 
the Daily Worker, in February 1947, stating I had been expelled some 
time prior. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Was that article in February 1951 ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes; I beg your pardon. 1951. I am sorry. 

Mr. Taat:nner. Were you interrogated by the staff of the Com- 
mittee on Un-American Activities in February 1951 ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes ; subsequent to the publication of this article 
in the Daily Worker. 



744 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTlxv^ORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of your position on the district commit- 
tee of district No. 4. Now, district No. 4 comprises the State of Mary- 
land and District of Cohnnbia; is that correct? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. So that when you were functioning in an official 
capacity in the district 4 organization, your territory included Balti- 
more and the State of Maryland as well as the District of Columbia? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. I stated that it was not my purpose to interrogate 
you at this time regarding Communist Party membership of indi- 
viduals and Communist Party activities with regard to the imme- 
diate area of the city of Washington, but I have one exception to 
make to that. You did appear in executive session before this com- 
mittee, I believe? 

Mrs. Markw^ard. That is right. 

JMr. Tavenner. In the course of your testimony at that time, did 
you identify an individual by the name of Andrew H. Older, and his 
wife, Isabel Older, as members of the Communist Party of the city 
of Washington? 

Mrs. Markward. I did. 

Mr. Taat.nner. Will you tell the committee how you know, or how 
you knew, them to be members of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, in my capacity as membership director 
of the Communist Party, I was also responsible for the registration 
of various members in the Communist Party, and I believe that 
the names of these individuals were submitted to me on registration 
cards from the Newspaper Club, which has also gone under various 
other names, but it was composed of newspaper people. 

I believe when I first became familiar with this name, I did not 
have their full names, and Elizabeth Searle, who was acquainted 
with them, identified them to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. The spelling of Searle is S-e-a-r-1-e? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. I believe subsequent to that I 
had their complete names. 

I remember a conversation — this, again, in my official capacity as 
membership director — with Travis Hedrick, chairman of that club, 
and Elizabeth Searle, in regard to Andrew Older and his wife, some- 
thing in regard to their activities. I can't remember the exact details 
of that conversation at this time, but I know it did concern these 
individuals and listed them as members of the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where Andrew H, Older lived at 
that time? 

Mrs. Markward. I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Andrew H. Older is now 
living ? 

Mrs. Markward. I saw in the paper where he had died. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a clipping from the Washington Star 
of October 9, 1950, which refers to his death, and carries a photo- 
graph allegedly of Mr. Older. Will you examine the photograph 
and state whether he is the same person to whom you referred? 

Mrs. Markward. I did not have personal contact wnth Mr. Older. 
All the contact I had was through official records of the party. I 
did not know him personally and I cannot identify this photograph. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 745 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how his wife, Mrs. Isabel Older, is 
now employed ? 

Mrs. Markw^vrd. I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. The newspaper article to which I referred states 

as follows : 

Mr. Older worked on Cai)itol Hill for Drew Pearson from 1944 to 1947 and 
at the same time wrote for various trade journals. Most of his writings con- 
cerned reiiorting- the news from Congress thsit affected radios, motion pictures, 
and other trades. 

Do you know whether the discussion that you had regarding Mr. 
Older's Communist Party activities related in any way to his work ? 

Mrs. Markw^ard. It is my recollection that it did not. It was 
regarding the extent of his activity in the party, and I believe the 
discussion w^as centered around having him participate more fully 
than lie w^as at the time the discussion took place. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell the committee whether Mr. Older and 
his wife, or either of them, were still carried on the rolls of the Com- 
munist Party as active members at the time or about the time that 
you, because of illness, gave up your position with the Connnunist 
Party? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, at tliis time in 1949 I no longer had custody 
of the official Communist Party lists of various membei-s. However, 
it was the custom to notify me wlienever anyone was dropped or trans- 
ferred. I li:;d no information of tliat type in regard to these in- 
dividuals. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Markward, I would like for you to go back 
to tlie time you first became a member of the Communist Party, and 
tell the committee just what course of preliminary training you were 
given as a ])arty member, and what course of training generally was 
given to party members at that time. 

Mrs. jNIarkwakd. Well, I tliink it should be taken into consideration 
that even tliough this was a year prior to the dissolving of the Com- 
munist Party and the formation of the Communist Political Associa- 
tion, already many of the ]jolicies which were pursued under the Com- 
munist Political Association were in effect. 

At the time I went into the party, many of the small trade-union 
clubs, industrial clubs, had been dissolved, and the members had been 
transfei'red to a few large community clubs. This was in accordance 
with Communist Political Association policy. 

After I believe the first meeting I attended of the Northeast Club, 
I was given literature which consisted of various books from the Little 
Lenin Library, which are the classics of the Conmiunist movement, 
to study. 

During the summer I attended classes on Ninth Street conducted 
by Emanual Levin, who was ex-officio head of the party during that 
period. This was not altogether a new members' class, but con- 
tained some people who had had more experience in the party than I 
had. 

During the Communist Political Association it seems there was not 
enough interest to pursue the classes to their conclusions. However, 
after the revitalization of the (\)mmunist Party there were a series 
of classes on the more basic Communist principles of Marx and Lenin, 
and I attended as many of those as I was able. 



746 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you familiar with the policy of the Commun- 
ist Party which brought about the formation of the Communist Po- 
litical Association? 

Mrs. Markward. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe that briefly to the committee, 
please ? 

Mrs. Markward. In this period, due to the fact the United States 
and Kussia were allies in the war, it was felt that the policy of the 
Communist Party should be to support the United States in the war 
effort. Of course they also wanted to open the second front. 

In accordance with this, they decided to abandon their more mili- 
tant activities on minority rights and things that had been their main 
function through the years, and their ability to get along with the 
United States became the party line during the Communist Political 
Association. This was before the formal setting up of the Communist 
Political Association. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the rank and file of the Communist Party 
register as members of the Communist Political Association? 

Mrs. Markward. They did. 

Mr. Tavenner. When the change was made ? 

Mrs. Markward. They did. They had had Communist Party books 
prior to that time, and when the Communist Political Association came 
into being cards were issued, a different sort of identification. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe briefiy the program and policy 
of the Communist Party during the existence of the Communist Polit- 
ical Association? 

Mrs. Markward. You want the policy of the Communist Political 
Association ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Markward. I believe I just stated it. They put forth a policy 
of getting along with and in the United States, and the revolutionary 
end of it was more or less toned down. However, it was stated in my 
presence many times that it would not be possible to have communism 
in this country through a peaceful revolution. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the beginning of the period when the Communist 
Political Association came into being, was it considered that that was 
a mere transient or temporary change of the party program ? 

Mrs. Markward. I do not believe that very many of the members 
really understood just what happened. The national board put forth 
these policies. I think the rank and file membership did feel that this 
was probably a more permanent thing than it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any substantial change in leadership 
when the transfer was made from the Communist Party to the Com- 
munist Political Association ? 

Mrs. Markward. There was not. One of our city officers was made 
a district officer. She later returned to be a city official here. But 
there were no substantial changes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien this transition took place from the CJom- 
munist Party to the Communist Political Association, were additional 
dues charged, or did the membership go into the Communist Political 
Association without the payment of initiation fees or additional dues? 

Mrs. Markward. There was no initiation fee for them to go into 
the Communist Political Association. The form of dues payment 
was changed. Prior to that it had been about $2 a month, I think. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 747 

When the Communist Political Association came into being, the dues 
were from $2 to $5 for people with high incomes, but not many people 
would admit having an income that would cause them to have to pay 
too much dues. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did the Communist Political Association 
come to an end ? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, there was a letter written by Jacques Duclos, 
who was a leader of the French Communist Party, which was pub- 
lished in the Daily Worker of May 24, 1945, That, of course, was 
near the end of hostilities in the war in Europe. 

• Immediately after that, a period of discussion regarding the policy 
of the Communist Political Association was initiated and it was 
agreed that it was necessary to go back to the more revolutionary pro- 
gram of the party. 

District conventions were called to elect delegates to attend a na- 
tional convention which dissolved the Communist Political Associa- 
tion and reestablished the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. That change in policy took place immediately after 
the virtual termination of the war in Europe? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you say the Communist Party again realized 
the necessity for the revolutionary principles which the party had 
formerly stood for? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. What position was taken by the Communist Party 
in the District of Columbia regarding this alleged error during the 
period of the Communist Political Association ? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, I didn't hear any disagreement among any- 
one with the feeling there had been an error. I believe it was realized 
that the local leaders and membership would not discuss that letter 
until it had been considered at a higher level and the party line handed 
down by the higher level. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is exactly the point I wanted to develop, that 
the rank and file really did not discuss this with the idea of maldng a 
decision by the rank and file. 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. That decision was made by the national leadership 
of the party ? 

Mrs. JNIarkward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the end Browder was discredited? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And members of the national committee were forced 
to admit the previous error? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell us what difference in policy there was, 
if any, during the period of the Communist Political Association and 
after that, with regard to strikes ? 

Mrs. Markward. During the Communist Political Association the 
Communists had supported wholeheartedly the no-strike pledge of the 
labor unions. I was not in attendance throughout the convention in 
Washington, but the part I did attend was absorbed mostly with a 
discussion of whether or not they would continue to support the no- 
strike pledge, which was still in effect due to the fact the war was still 
going on in the Pacific. I understand it was felt they should decide 
each call for a strike as it came along. 



748 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien the change took place from the Communist 
Political Association back to the Communist Party, was there any sub- 
stantial change in the leadership of the party in district 4. 

Mrs. Markward. There ^yas not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was any convention held with regard to this sub- 
ject when the members of the party were notified of the change of 
policy by the national headquarters of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. There was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was that convention held ? 

Mrs. Markward. It was held in two sections in Baltimore. One was 
held for the purpose of electing delegates to the national convention, 
and one was held after the national convention to elect new leaders. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any special screening of those who were 
chosen, as to their views and ideas, and so on ? 

Mrs. Markward. There was. The district leadership selected quite 
a large group of individuals, of which I was one — I believe there wero 
at least 12 of us — and we met as a committee for several days in order 
to arrive at a slate for the new district leadership. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVhat was the controlling factor in their selection? 

Mrs. Markward. The degree of activity ; the extent to which they 
had rejected the Browder ideas; and various minority groups wero 
rei)resented on the committee proper. 

Mr. Tavenner. During your connection with the Communist Party 
after the reestablishment of it in 1945, did you become familiar with 
the policies of the party relating to foreign policy of the United 
States? 

Mi-s. Markward. They immediately became very critical of the 
foreign policy of the United States. It was the fall of 1945 when they 
picketed the State Department, I believe, in protest of the United 
States policy in regard to China. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Can you tell us more in detail about the picketing 
of the State Department with regard to the China policy in 1945 ? 

Mrs. Markward. My recollection of that is not enough, I believe, to 
go into any detail with it here. 

There was a great demand to bring the boys back home from Europe. 
And they praised the new democracies in Europe and their relation- 
ship to the Soviet Union. 

Mr. Tavenner. You made reference to their policy toward affairs 
in Europe and the new democracies. Will you state that again, 
please ? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, I say, of course, "Bring the boys back home,"'* 
was a very popular expression. We saw American troops removed 
very rapidly, and immediately we found, in areas formerly occupied 
by Kussian troops, new forms of government of a Socialist or Com- 
munist type. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it the policy of the Communist Party to sup- 
j)ort, through its own propaganda and its own teachings, the forma- 
tion of those people's fronts in the so-called satellite countries? 

Mrs. Markward. They were heartily in favor of these new forms 
of government. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did they express that opinion freely and advo- 
cate it? 

Mrs. Markward. They did, in very many ways. Some who visited 
Europe came back and told how well the people were doing under it. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 749 

Mr. Tavtrnner. Was there any change in the attitude of the Com- 
munist Party here toward Marshal Tito following the break between 
Russia and Yugoslavia ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. Tito's stock fell with American Communists 
to a great extent. Before the break he had been, next to Stalin, the 
most revered Connnunist leader, and immediately upon this break he 
was completely no good. He was considered in the same light as 
Browder was in the United States. 

Mr. Tavenner. How rapidly did that transition in thought take 

place ? 

Mrs. Markward. It took place very rapidly upon the publication 
of tlie organization of the various Connnunist countries in Europe, 
and the fact that Tito was expelled. That was watched and discussed 
in the United States, and from that time on there was a rejection by 
the American Communists of everything Tito stood for and advocated. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you say these matters were discussed, were 
they discussed in the sense that there was freedom of choice by indi- 
viduals in taking the stand that they chose to take, or was it a dis- 
cussion that follows the dictation of the party line? 

Mrs. Markward. It was reported and agreed with. I never heard 
any differences in the discussions. 

Mr. Tavenner. So the discussion was limited to approval of the 
Communist Party line wliieh had been handed down? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\tnner. xifter the rehabilitation of the Communist Party 
in 1945 — that is, the conversion from the Communist Political Asso- 
ciation back to the Communist Party — was there any difference in 
plan with regard to the organization of the cells of the party? 

Mrs. Markward. There was. During the Communist Political 
Association, in Washington the various cells and groups had been 
amalgamated into one city-wide group. But at the organizational 
meeting following the reestablishment of the Communist Party, the 
suggestion was made to oi'ganize the clubs among people with com- 
mon interests, such as particular industrial groups or trade-unions. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was a marked departure from the previous 
plan of organization in this particular district? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that change consisted of a change from the 
cells being centered around civic projects to a plan by which the 
Communist membership was organized according to industrial and 
trade-union groups? 

Mrs. Markward. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the reason for that change in policy? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, there were several reasons. It became nec- 
essary for someone in northwest Washington to know who were the 
members of a laborers' club which met in southeast Washington, usu- 
ally. It also enabled them to do away with city-wide membership 
lists. The membership list of a particular club would be kept in the 
custody of the leadership of the club. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now will you describe a little more in detail the 
organization of the Communist Party in groups or cells under the 
trade-union plan. That is, was there any particular industry in 
which a special effort was made to organize clubs of the Communist 
Party ? 



750 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mrs. Markward, Speaking of Washington, D. C. ? 

Mr. Ta\'enner. I mean in district 4. 

Mrs. Markward. In district 4, and particularly in Baltimore, th& 
decision of the district committee was that the steel industry should 
be the primary concentration point ; and the maritime industry should 
be the secondary concentration point, the maritime industry includ- 
ing seamen, longshoremen, and other related things. Also, electrical! 
workers were to be organized. 

In Washington, D. C, building trades were the primary concentra- 
tion point. 

Mr. Tavenner. At this point, while we are considering the deci- 
sion to place the emphasis upon steel, I am anxious to know how that 
matter was discussed, and where and by whom. 

Mrs. Markward. It was discussed in the city committee and city 
board, and I think the national committee participated in some of these 
discussions. It was felt that was the place where progress could be 
made. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the names of any members of the 
Communist Party who were working in the steel industry at that time- 
who played any part in the organization of Communist cells or clubs 
within the steel industry? 

Mrs. Markavard, Mike Howard. Frank Pinter. Roy Wood was a 
very active member in the steel industry, and he proclaimed himself 
publicly as a party member, and the industry expelled him. His 
brother, Bill Wood, was a member there. Phil Gran was a member 
there. Subsequent to this George Meyer was employed as a full- 
time labor secretary, and assigned to the steel industry. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean labor secretary of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is in district 4 ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Taa^nner. When was that that he was labor secretary, do you^ 
recall ? 

Mrs. Markward. I don't recall exactly. He had been in Cumber- 
land, I believe, prior to that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he sent to this particular job in the Com- 
munist Party from Cumberland? 

Mrs. Markward. That is my understanding. 

Mr, Tavenner. For the purpose of organizing the workers there? 

Mrs. Markward. That is my understanding; and that it was his 
responsibility to see that the steel concentration was carried out. 

Mr. Tavenner. I want to be certain that we have the names cor- 
rectly spelled of those whom you have mentioned. 

Mike Howard : Do you know whether the Mike Howard to whom 
you refer is the Mike Howard who was produced as a witness before 
this committee, and who refused to testify regarding alleged Com- 
munist activities ? 

Mrs. Markward. I don't have personal knowledge of that, because I 
wasn't here and did not see him. 

Mr. Tavenner. A Mr. Mike Howard did appear before this com- 
mittee. Will you give us a little more description, if you can, of the 
character of work he did do or was expected to do as a result of the- 
conferences that you know of ? 



COIMJMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AEEA 751 

Mrs. Markward. I did not participate in those particular confer- 
ences. The ones 1 participated in just discussed the over-all policy. 

Mr. Tavenner. But j^ou are certain that he was assigned to the steel 
industry? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenxer. And you spoke of a person named Frank Pinter. 
What is the correct s]>elling of his last name ? 

Mrs. Markward. P-i-n-t-e-r. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. I believe you stated that Koy Wood had publicly 
announced that he was a member of the Communist Party and for 
that reason he had been expelled from the steel club? 

Mrs. Markward. No, from the steel industry. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. But that did not all'ect his membership in the 
Comnumist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. No. 

Mr. Tavexner. What position did he hold in the Communist Party? 

Mrs. IMarkward. He was a member of the district conunittee and 
also the district board. 

]\Ir. Tavenxer. What position does he now hold in the Communist 
Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. He is now chairman of the Communist Party 
of the District of Columbia. 

Mr. Tavenner. You referred to Bill Wood as being a member of 
the steel cell of the party ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is he a brother of Roy Wood ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. 

JNIr. Tavex-ner. This person William H. Wood appeared before this 
committee, but refused to admit any connection with the Communist 
Party. 

You also mentioned Gran. What was his full name? 

Mrs. Markward. Phil Gran. 

Mr. Tavenner. Phil Gran was one of those who appeared before 
this committee. You say he was a member of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. He was a member of the district committee 
and a member of the steel club. 

]Mr, Tavex-ner. What position did George Meyer have in the Com- 
munist Party in addition to being labor secretary ? 

]\Irs. Markward. He was a member of the district committee and 
of the district board. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the names of members of the trade- 
union commission who were known to you to be members of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. Markward. I can't go into any great detail on that. It is my 
impression that Jack Zucker was a member of that commission during 
the time he was in Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he an organizer of the UE ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell his last name, please ? 

Mrs. Markward. Z-u-c-k-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the first name was Jack? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

86629— 51— pt. 1 2 



752 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Jack Zucker. Was he known to you to be a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. He was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Ai-e thei-e any other persons whose names you can 
recall at this moment atIio participated, as a result of this plan and 
policy of the Communist Party, in organizational work in the steel 
industry; that is, Communist Party organizational work? 

Mrs. Markward. I can't recall any working in the steel industry. I 
do know that membei's of community clubs and white-collar clubs were 
asked to distribute Communist propaganda in the neighborhoods 
where steel woi-kers lived, in order to influence non-Communist steel 
workers toward the Communist Party line. 

Mr. Tavennp:r. And that program was participated in, you say, 
by the white-collar groups'? 

Mrs. ML4RKWARD. And neighborhood clubs; all the nonindustrial 
clubs. 

Mr. TA^T.NNER. Why was that plan adopted? 

Mrs. Markward. In order to reach as many people who worked in 
the steel industry as ])Ossible. 

Mr. Tavexxer. And that was because the steel industry was con- 
sidered the most important area of operations of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Potter. Mav I ask a question at this point ? 

Mr. Wood. :Mr. Potter. 

Mr. Potter. What was the purpose of the Communist Party in its 
activities in the steel industry ? 

Mrs. Markward. They felt it was the most basic industry in Bal- 
timore and was the one they wanted to colonize in. 

Mr. Potter. Was any discussion developed as to the purpose of 
the Communist Party members in the steel industry? What were 
their duties? 

Mrs. JMarkward. The chief purpose with which I was acquainted 
seemed to be to influence as many people as possible to follow the 
Communist Party line. If they could do that, they could control the 
trade-unions, too. 

Mr. Tavexxer. And if they could control the trade-unions and 
the labor organizations, then they would have the steel industry prac- 
tically in the palm of the hand ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\^xxer. And it took organization work of this kind to 
accomplish that ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Walter. That was for the purpose of bringing to the United 
States international communism and not the type of communism 
that Tito had embraced. Is that the fact? 

Mrs. Markward. From everything I observed, that seemed to be 
correct. 

Mr. Walter. In other words, the objective was to bring the Ameri- 
can Government into the orbit of control from Russia, and not to set 
up a Communist foi-m of government in the United States which 
would be independent of foreign dictation? 

Mrs. Markward. If you take the total picture, that is correct. It 
was stated repeatedly they could not attain their objectives under the 
present form of American Government. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 753 

Mr. Walter. In other words, they were not interested in commu- 
nism so much as in making the United States subservient to Stalin? 

Mrs. Markwahi). They said if you deviate from Stalin you are not 
a good Communist. 

Mr. Walter. In other words, it was a part of this international 
conspiracy ; is that correct? 

Mrs. Markward. That is the logical conclusion from what they were 
doing. 

Mr. Tavenner. I was asking you about the membership of the steel 
club. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of Aaron 
Ostrof sky ? 

Mrs. Markward. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the steel club, or did he work 
in steel? 

Mrs. Markward. My acquaintance with him was not particularly 
as a person in steel. I remember him particularly wdien he was doing 
work in veterans' organizations. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ostrofsky was another of those who appeared 
as a witness before this conmiittee, and I believe he did admit that 
he worked for Bethlehem Steel. Was he a person known to you to 
be a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Joe Henderson ? 

Mrs. Markward. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he worked in steel ? 

Mrs. Markw^vrd. He was not working in steel the last time I had 
direct knowledge of what he was doing. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time you knew him, do you know where he 
was working? 

Mrs. Markward. He was working for the ILWU. 

Mr. Wood. Will you spell his name ? 

Mrs. Markward. H-e-n-d-e-r-s-o-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of your own knowledge whether or 
not he was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markw\\rd. I do. He was a member in AVashington during 
an early period, and transferred to Baltimore. Then I knew him 
there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Alfred McPherson was a 
worker in steel ? 

Mrs. Markward. I knew Alfred McPherson. He was a j^rominent 
Communist in Baltimore. I don't particularly recollect his connec- 
tion with the steel industry. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where McPherson is at this time ? 

Mrs. Markward. I do not. To the best of my recollection he was 
transferred out of Baltimore. I don't recall his coming back. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to what extent the Communist Party 
considered that its efforts in organizing the Communist Party within 
the steel industry were successful or unsuccessful? 

Mrs. Markw^ard. Well, it w^as my understanding in the party meet- 
ings I attended that they felt they could never do enough, but I think 
they were very pleased with the progress they were making. 

Of course, when the Ober law became the point of concentration in 
Maryland, the actual amount of activity had to be lessened to some 



754 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

extent, but tliey seemed fairly well satisfied with the progress they 
were making under the handicaps they had. 

Mr. Tavenner. I want to ascertain who were members of the execu- 
tive committee of district 4 during the time that this cell was being 
set up. But before asking you to answer that, I would like to go back 
to the meeting which you told us was held in Baltimore when the dele- 
gates were elected to go to the national convention to consider the mat- 
ter of conversion from the Communist Political Association to the 
Communist Party. That was in 1945. Who were the prominent 
leaders in district 4 of the Communist Party at that time? 

Mrs. Markward. A1 Lannon was the district chairman. 

At this time Albert Blumberg was still in the district, but I think 
he was being drawn more in the national organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that Dr. Albert Blumberg? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. His wife, Dorothy Rose Blumberg, was very 
prominent. 

Elizabeth Searle had been secretary and was one of the top people. 

William Johnson from Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that William S. Johnson? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Herb Kransdorf, I believe, was there at that time. 

Mr. TA^^2NNER. Will you spell his last name ? 

Mrs. Markward. K-r-a-n-s-d-o-r-f. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he known by any other name ? 

Mrs. Markward. Herb Kay, K-a-y. 

Doxey Wilkerson was still in the district at the time of our local 
convention, but then he was put on a national level after the conven- 
tion. 

I can't recall the others offhand. I don't want to be wrong. I would 
rather not say. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Charlotte Young on the district committee at 
that time ? 

Mrs. Markward. I don't recall specifically. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. As the work of the party progressed — and you have 
told us how the cell in the basic industry of steel was set up and why 
it was set up — who were the members of the executive committee, as 
well as you can remember, at the time that action was taken? 

Mrs. Markward. I think it might be well to point out that this was 
something that developed more or less gradually. It was the program 
of the party since 1945. It was greatly intensified in 1947 and 1948. 
That is when they really went to work on steel and concentrated 
there. * 

The district committee was a very large organization. It was one 
that did not function particularly well as far as all the members were 
concerned. Should I rename the members I have just named? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, if they were members. 

Mrs. Markward. A1 Lannon, Albert Blumberg, Dorothy Rose 
Blumberg, Elizabeth Searle, William Johnson, Mary Stalcup, James 
Branca 

Mr. Tavenner. He was from Washington? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. He was in the service at the time 
of the convention, but he was elected in absentia. 

Milton Seif. 

Mr. Wood. Spell that name, please. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 755 

Mrs. Markward. I always thoiiglit it was S-i-e-f . I was spelling it 
phonetically, though. Perhaps I am wrong. 

Mr. Tavenner. The staff is informed that the correct spelling is 
S-e-i-*f . Can you tell us more about Milton Seif ? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, he became particularly active in the time 
subsequent to 1945, as I recall. He was assigned particularly to youth 
work, in addition to his other activity in the Communist Party. He 
attended national level meetings in that connection. I recall also he 
had done commendable work in his community. He was at all tinies 
a very active and trusted party worker and a member of the district 

committee. t-. • i ^ .. 

Gus Alexiou, from this city; Dorothy Strange; Hanna Ireishtat; 
Boyd Coleman and Arthur Shusterman, of Cumberland, were 

members. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Whitey Goodfriend a member? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes, he was. He was transferred out of the dis- 
trict sometime during this period, however. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Do you know where he was transferred to? 

Mrs. Markward. No, I don't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know his first name ? 

Mrs. Markward. Bernard, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall a person by the name of Calvin 
Cousins ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. Did I forget him ? He was a member from 

Washington, D. C. 

I also think Joseph and Gertie Rinis were members from Wash- 
ington, D. C. 

That was the one elected in 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the spelling of the last name ? 

Mrs. Markward. Rinis, R-i-n-i-s. 

Mr. Tam^nner. You mentioned earlier in your testimony Mike 
Howard. I don't recall whether you referred to him as a member 
■of this committee or not ? 

Mrs. Markward. To the best of my recollection he was. He was 
not too active in the committee, but I believe he was elected to the 
committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. You also mentioned Joseph Henderson in the course 
of your testimony. Was he a member of this committee? 

Mrs. Markward. He was not elected to this committee at this time. 
His greater activity developed at a time subsequent to this. 

Mr. Tavenner. You also mentioned Alfred McPherson. Was he 
a member of this committee ? 

Mrs. Markward. To the best of my knowledge he was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Steve Sebo was a member of the International 
Workers' Order group ? 

Mrs. Markward. He was a member of this committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. He was a member ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes, he was. 

Mr. Wood. May I ask at this point: Were the members of this com- 
mittee elected in a convention? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. We had a negotiating committee that drew 
up a slate, and the slate was elected at the convention. 

Mr. Kearney. Was there ever any opposition to that slate? 



756 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mrs, Markward. None that I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Selma Weiss? 

Mrs. Markwapd. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she a member of this committee ? 

Mrs. Markward. I can't recall specifically. She was always very 
active in the top leadership of the party. I think she was a member 
of the committee, but I can't state positively. 

Mr. Tavenner. With regard to Selma Weiss, what was her par- 
ticular phase of activity in the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Markward. I believe she was an officer of the A YD in Balti- 
more, and was more or less in charge of youth work in the top councils 
of the party foi- youth. 

Mr. Tavenner. In referring to these various organizations, please 
use the names instead of the initials. AYD is American Youth for 
Democracy ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. I am sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked you earlier about George Meyer. Will you 
spell his last name ? 

Mrs. Markward. It is my undei-standing it is M-e-y-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know a person by the name of Jack Myer, 
M-y-e-r? 

Mrs. Markward. No, I didn't. 

Mr. Velde. Mrs. Markward, in the infiltration of the steel industry, 
was the subject of the non-Communist affidavit under the Taft-Hartley 
Act ever discussed, as to whether Communist Party members who 
went into the unions should or should not sign the non-Communist 
affidavit ? 

Mrs. Markward: I believe the decision on that was made in indi- 
vidual cases. I don't believe there was any member of the Communist 
Party in the steel industry who had to sign that affidavit. I don't 
think they were high enough in the trade-union councils. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock. 

(Thereupon, at 12:15 p. m., a recess was taken until 2 p. m. of the 
same day.) 

afternoon session 

Mr. Walter (presiding). The committee will be in order. 
Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

TESTIMONY OF MAEY STALCUP MARKWARD— Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Markward, you told us this morning of the 
concentration of effort in organizing Communist Part}'^ cells and activ- 
ity within the basic industry of steel in the Baltimore area. 

Now, was the activity of the Communist Party more extensive than 
that? By that I mean, was any special effort made to infiltrate the 
steel industry with persons who were members of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. Every encouragement was given to — in 
fact, I think the fiat request was made — for any party member who 
thought he possibly could, to go to work in the steel industry ; and I 
am certain that certain individual party members were approached 
with the assignment, in fact, to go to work in the steel industry. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 757 

Mr. Tavenner. You told \is this morning that the most important 
matter to the Communist Party was the work in tlie steel industry and 
the organization of the party in the steel industry. 

Then you said that the s^econdary concentration was the maritime 
industry. 

Mrs. Markward. Tliat is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us more about the work in the mari- 
time industry? 

Mrs. Markward. I know that, particularly during the war, they 
had a very extensive membership, particularly of seamen. Of course, 
they came in and out of the Baltimore port. " Herbert Kransdorf was 
the primary person responsible for the work in the maritime indus- 
try. He was a full-time functionary and a part-time functionary, 
although occasionally he went to sea. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean a functionary of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. A functionary of the Comnnniist Party. Occa- 
sionally he would be taken off the payroll and would go to sea as a 
seaman in order to work more closely with the seamen he would meet. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the correct spelling of Kransdorf is K-r-a-n-s- 
d-o-r-f? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there any further information you can give us 
about Connnunist Party activities within the maritime industry? 

Mrs. Markward. I can't give you too much, because the seamen 
were in and out of Baltimore. I wasn't in as consistent contact with 
the individual members as I was with some others. I know occasion- 
ally, when mass meetings were held, protection squads were organized 
among th§ seamen to see that none of the Communist Party members 
were molested. That was at public meetings after the general Amer- 
ican public had begun to react against the Communists. 

Mr, Tavenner. Some mention was made this morning in your tes- 
timony about the so-called Ober law in Maryland relating to sub- 
versive activities within the State of Maryland. 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the policy of the Communist Party with 
regard to its attitude and conduct relating to that act? 

Mrs. Markward. This had a rather hmnorous angle to begin with. 
Philip Frankfeld, the district chairman, when this Ober antisubver- 
sive act was first under discu.ssion, sent a telegram to the assembly 
approving the thing, because he said the Communist Party was not 
subversive. He got called on the carpet by tlie national office for that, 
and every effort was made to try to keep this law from being passed, 
and it was greatly feared by the Communist Party membership. 

Mr. Tavenner. Had Frankfeld succeeded Al Lannon as chairman 
of the district ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. What action did Frankfeld take after he was re- 
versed by national headquarters regarding his telegi-am to tlie State 
authorities approving the passage of the Ober laAv? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, propaganda leaflets and various things were 
put out to the general public in Maryland stating that the law was 
un-American; that their rights were being denied the Communist 
Party ; that the things the law put forward were not true ; and the 



758 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

general party line in regard to antisubversive legislation was laid down 
in Maryland. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell the committee anything about the man- 
ner in which the Communist Party fought the passage of the Ober law, 
other than by the distribution of pamphlets and literature ? 

Mrs. Markwakd. I believe there was a citizens' committee set up in 
Maryland. I know this committee was not composed only of Com- 
munists, but they did operate to a great extent to support and aid 
what this committee was doing; and they worked particularly after 
the law was passed, to have it put to referendum. Every party mem- 
ber was required to take petitions into Maryland to be signedso that 
the law would go to referendum. That meant that every party mem- 
ber in Washington was required to go into Maryland to circulate this 
petition. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question? 

Mr. Walter. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you state the text of the telegram sent with re- 
spect to the Ober law was to the effect that the Connnunist Party was 
not subversive in nature, and therefore they had no objection to the 
Ober law ? 

Mrs. Markward. That was the initial telegram that was sent. I 
don't remember the exact date of the telegram, but it was prior to 
the time that the general American public had awakened to the men- 
ace of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Jackson. And the sender of the telegram was called on the 
carpet, so to speak, for his statement ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right, that he should never have made a 
statement that any such law should ever be passed. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the extent to which the Communist 
Party was responsible for the formation of the Citizens' Committee 
To Defeat the Ober Law ? 

Mrs. Markward, I don't know exactly that it was entirely responsi- 
ble for it. I know it did extend beyond the periphery of the Com- 
munists in what we normally know as to Communist organization. It 
did include other citizens who at least wanted to see the law put to 
referendum. They did not include themselves in this organization 
because they thought it would scare away the people who were more 
to the right, and therefore their names were not actually included with 
those associated with this committee. It was doing the job the party 
wanted done, so they aided to the greatest extent they possibly could. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. In other words, the work that they did was done 
at the direction of the party ; that is, the work that the individual 
party members did was at party direction ? 

Mrs. Markward. The work that the party members did was done at 
the direction of the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you say that the Communist Party spear- 
headed the movement to defeat the Ober law in Maryland ? 

Mrs. Markward. I think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did that work begin on the part of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. To the best of my recollection, it must have con- 
tinued throughout a great part of 1948. I believe it was passed early 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 759 

in 1949. And tlien they worked to get the petition circnLated and so 
forth. In the spring of 1949 was when we were most active with that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the imminence of the passage of the Ober law 
or its passage affect the Communist Party in the State of Maryland 
and Bahimore, to your knowledge? 

Mrs. JMakkward. It caused them to greatly accelerate the setting up 
of security apparatus so that the part}^ would not have to cease 
functioning if such law went into effect, but would be able to maintain 
continuity of activity in every respect. 

j\Ir. TA^ENNER. How was that accomplished, and how was it in- 
tended to accomplish that effect ? 

]\Irs. INIarkward. Through the setting up of the group system, where 
each of the top leaders had two or three lesser leaders they would con- 
sult with to pass the party line to, and each of these people would 
have two or three people under them. For instance, we w^ould take an 
existing club, and the club chairman would take the members of the 
executive connnittee, the executive committee would take the rank and 
file, but no party member would know more than two or three other 
members they could positively say tlie}^ had attended Communist Party 
meetings Avith. 

JNIr. Tavexner. So that the effect of the Ober law in Maryland was 
to set u]) that group plan or system within the Communist Party in the 
State of Maryland ? 

Mrs. INIarkward. Yes. The groundwork for that group system had 
been set up nationally prior to that, but it greatly accelerated it because 
it was needed at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that done at the direction of the Communist 
Party on the national scale, or on the national level ? 

Mrs. Markward. I believe so ; to the best of my knowledge it was. 

I was going to inject there that the aid of the Communists in Wash- 
ington was greatly utilized after the passage of the Ober law, when 
they thought that there immediately would be arrests and so forth. 
The ]ieople who lived in Maryland were not used to pass literature, 
but the papers and literature came to Washington, and people from 
Wasliington went to INIaryland on week ends to sell them. It was done 
that way because these people were not subject to the Ober law. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any difference in the practice of holding 
meetiugs after the passage of the Ober law? 

Mrs. Markavard. Tliere was. Particularly I can speak of the 
higlier level meetings. The district committee met under great se- 
curity regulations, a similar method to the group system. Only one 
or two leaders would know of the place of the meeting before the 
time of the meetiug. Certain other very trusted members were given 
sealed orders to be opened at an hour very, very close to the hour of 
the meeting, and they had made arrangement to contact four or five 
others. I know" for one meeting we had a specific minute to arrive 
at the meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. Please continue. 

Mrs. INIarkavard. These various people who had the sealed orders 
M^ere supposed to arrive down to the minute. I believe this meeting 
was before the Ober law was passed. It was to see if it could be done 
effectively. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the circumstances? 



760 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mrs. Markward. The meeting was in tlie basement of a place where 
we had never met before. I don't know the address yet. 

Mr. Tavenner. In Baltimore? 

Mrs. Markward. In Baltimore. As I say, there was some con- 
fusion. The people did not arrive at exactly the same time, and some 
who got there early, so many were circling the block that I think 
security was worse at that meeting than it had been at any prior one. 

I think I should also say that at this and subsequent meetings 
nobody was allowed to leave the meeting until the meeting had ad- 
journed, and everybody was allowed to leave at once. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us who were present at this meeting, 
as well as you can recall ? 

Mrs. Markward. I can't recall specifically a great many people. 
There were 30 or 35 there, as I recall. Phil Frankfeld was there. I 
can do better Avith the people who went from Washington. There 
was myself; Charles Payne; Rob Hall; Roy Wood; Henry Thomas; 
Rose Clinton; and Bob Paul. And Arthur Berri. who was head of 
the white-collar section in Baltimore, was there. I believe those are 
all that I can specifically state at the present time. 

Mr. Taatsnner. Do you recall anything out of the ordinary that 
occurred at that meeting? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. This was at a time which was almost im- 
mediately subsequent to the time when the Communist Parties around 
the world had made announcements that their members would never 
bear arms against the Soviet Union, and the Communist Party na- 
tionally in America had made such a statement, and Phil Frankfeld 
had issued such a statement in the name of the Communist Party in 
Baltimore. This was already an accomplished fact, and what he did 
was to bring this fact to the attention of the people present at the 
meeting, and each and every one had to answer "Yea" that they ap- 
})roved of that statement that the members of the Communist Party 
would never bear arms against the Soviet Union ; and that was adopted 
by everyone except Arthur Berri. He said he thought the Commu- 
nist Party was in hot water enough in the United States as it was at 
that time, and this type of thing should not have been done at that 
time. He was referred to the district leadership for further conver- 
sation on the matter. 

Mr. Taa^nner. In other words, he had to account to the leadership 
for his failure to agree in this discussion ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. And this is another type of the discussions that 
occurred within the Communist Party meetings ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Doyle. Was that reference to the leadership by vote of the 
meeting? Who referred him to the leadership? 

Mrs. Markward. The leadership suggested that he be referred to 
the leadership, and he was. 

Mr. Doyle. You mean the leadership of that meeting? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, the leadership of that meeting was the 
leadership of the party. Phil Frankfeld was the chairman of the 
meeting, and he made the statement, 

I might also add that at this meeting the meeting decided that the 
leadership of the district committee should be self -perpetuating and 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 761 

responsible for the security of the party, and anything that needed 
to be done — to put new members on the committee or remove members 
from the committee — woukl be in the hands of the top leaders, the 
district board, rather than the whole district committee having to vote 
on such things. 

Mr. Tavenner. This statement that had been published by Frank- 
feld, did that come down from the national party or national com- 
mittee of the Communist Party, or from Foster? 

Mrs. Markward. The national secretary, I think Eugene Dennis 
was the sjjokesman, had issued the statement. I don't know that Phil 
Frankfeld was instructed to issue it, or was using his own initiative 
to issue it as the head of the district organization, but it was done 
immediately after the national statement. 

Mr. Tavenner. In any event, the policy was the national policy of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. that is right, and we were acting in unison with 
them. 

Mr. Tavenner. And if Frankfeld made any mistake about it, it 
it was in making it public rather than a mistake in policy ? 

Mrs. Markward. No. The national party had made it public. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know if Mike Howard was present at that 
meeting ? 

Mrs. Markward. I believe he was not. 

Mr. Tavenner. You believe he was not ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall if Bill Wood was present? Or did 
3'ou say he went with you ? 

Mrs. Markward. Roy Wood went with me. I am not certain Bill 
Wood was there. I don't recollect if Bill was there. I have no notes 
on that meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was any action taken at that meeting to place 
membei's under oath, to make a sworn statement that they would 
not bear arms against the Soviet Union ? 

Mrs. Markward. In effect I felt they were swearing to each other 
that they would not bear arms against the Soviet Union, and would 
■carry this back to the membership they were supposed to be leading. 

Mr, Potter. Wliat was the date of that meeting? 

Mrs. Markward. March or April 1949. 

Mr. Tavenner. This was a meeting of the executive committee? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. Just a second. A great many 
other active party leaders who were not members of the committee 
were in attendance at this meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. Therefore it is logical to conclude that this party 
line or party principle was carried back to the rank and file of the 
Communist Party members? 

Mrs. Markward, That is correct. 

Mr, Tavenner, Because of the representation at this meeting ? 

Mrs, Markward, That is right, 

Mr, Tavenner, Do you recall any specific directions to take this 
back to the rank and file ? 

Mrs, Markward, Well, there were general directions that decisions 
of these committees, the reason we made the decisions was so that 
they would be carried back to the rank and file. 



762 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr, Tavenner, That was the method by which the Communist 
Party line was carried down to the rank and file, through informa- 
tion that the leaders obtained at these meetings ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct, 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs, Markward, we have had a number of instances 
when witnesses have appeared before this committee and have refused 
to state whether or not they would bear arms in the event of war 
with the Soviet Union, which would appear to be in conformity with 
instructions that were given at this period in the history of the Com- 
munist Party in this country. 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question ? 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Velde. 

Mr. Velde. Did any discussion take place in any of your meetings 
relative to what a party member should say should he be called be- 
fore such a committee as this committee ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes ; we did. We had an instance that grew up 
in Washington. Sometime subsequent to the appearance of the Holly- 
wood Ten here, we had a party member in Washington who appeared 
in court in connection with something else. He was asked if he was 
a party member, and he had been a known party member for a num- 
ber of years, and he denied being a party member. A letter of resig- 
nation was worked up for him dated back prior to the time he made 
that statement, and then he was re-recruited. But he was supposed to 
have taken the splendid exam])le of the Hollywood Ten and refused to 
answer the question rather than say whether he was or was not a 
member. 

Thereafter the members understood they were just not to answer 
,the question. 

I think it was the policy, when people were called before this com- 
mittee, to meet with the leaders and discuss with them what their con- 
duct was to be, and they were called back after their appearance and 
told to what extent they stood up as a Communist Party member before 
the committee. 

Mr. Kearney. That is very revealing, because I would say in 100 
percent of the instances they all have the same line, so in other words, 
it is the party line. 

Mr. Walter. Were they advised as to what they should do by 
counsel ? 

Mrs. Markw^\rd. The first occasion I spoke of came up in a court 
and it was not planned by the party. The party didn't know it was 
going to come up. It had to do with a trade-union case. 

After that, when individuals were called in, it wasn't decided in 
committee what they were going to do, but the individuals were called 
in and told what they were to do. 

Mr, Walter, Told by whom? 

Mrs, Markward, By the party leadership, 

Mr, Kearney, Mr, Chairman, may I ask one question there ? 

Mr, Walter. Mr. Kearney. 

Mr. Kearney. From your Imowledge, did the Communist Party in 
this area have attorneys that represented them regularly 'i 

Mrs. Markward. During the latter days when I was a party func- 
tionary in the city, they were looking for ""the" responsible attorney. 
They didn't really have anyone who was completely satisfactory to 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 763 

them. Of course Maurice Bravermaii in Baltimore was a party mem- 
ber, and he did represent cei-tain party peo])le on certain occasions, 
but I believe they had done some business with a lawyer in Washing- 
ton by the name of Sam Levine, but he apparently was not completely 
satisfactory to them, and they were trying to get someone more emi- 
nent to represent them in these cases. 

Mr. Kearney. Did they finally get someone ? 

Mrs. Markw^slRd. Not during the time that I was responsible. In 
1949 when these people were being called up here, I was away ill, and 
(he few M'eeks I was back I didn't have time to get familiar with all 
phases of the organization. 

Mr. Tavtsnner. Were you given directions as to what to do in the 
event of legal difficulties? 

Mrs. Markward. I was told to get in contact with this lawyer, 
Sam Levine. The Civil Rights Congress, of course, came into exist- 
ence then, and we felt we could rely on them to obtain counsel also. 
Each party functionary was given the sum of $25 to have in his pocket, 
I guess to make the telephone calls and necessary arrangements to get 
in touch with people so they would not have to stay in jail. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned that the Civil Rights Congress was 
of assistance. Will you tell the committee in what way they were of 
assistance? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, they were an organization that was in con- 
tact with legal aid. That was one of their purposes, to provide legal 
aid for people of the left-wing group when they got in trouble. 

I remember particularly, the Young Progressives had a party and. 
were arrested because they didn't have a license to sell liquor, and the 
Civil Rights Congress went to their defense and saw that bail was pro- 
vided, and various things of that character. 

Mr. Tavenner. Could.you pretty generally rely on the Civil Rights 
Congress to provide bail when Communist' Party members got in 
trouble ? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, I remember an occasion in the early days 
of the Civil Rights Congress when I was in the position of lending the 
Civil Rights Congress Communist Party money to put up for Com- 
munist Party members. They were actually Communist Party mem- 
bers, but were arrested under the guise of some other organization. 
1 did put up the sum of $200 because these young men were to go to 
jail if they didn't have it, but it was returned by the Civil Rights 
Congress. 

Mr. Tavenner. So, as a matter of fact, you let the Civil Rights 
Congress have Communist Party money to use as bail for Communist 
Party members involved with the law ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. Then the Civil Rights Congress 
raised the money and repaid the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, that seems fair. Was that just an accidental 
matter that happened, or were you instructed to put that money up ? 
Mrs. Markward. I did that on my own initiative at that time, be- 
cause there was no party leader available to consult, and I was criti- 
cized for doing it because the Communist Party functionaries thought 
we would not get it back. Ordinarily when we gave money to the 
Civil Rights Congress it was gone. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there other occasions when you made dona- 
tions to the Civil Rights Congress ? 
Mrs. Markward. Yes. 



764 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us about that. 

Mrs. Markward. I can't recall a specific instance. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you were called upon to donate or lend money 
to the Civil Rights Congress in specific instances ? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, Communist Party members were acting as 
Civil Rights members also. I might say the National Negro Congress 
had preceded the Civil Rights Congress, and most of the money 
troubles had arisen in the National Negro Congress, prior to the Civil 
Rights Congress. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the Communist Party contribute money to the 
bail fund account of the Civil Rights Congress, if you know ? 

Mrs. Markward. I know we raised a great deal of money for the 
defense of the 11 Communists, but 1 believe that was handled directly 
through the Communist Party apparatus. What happened to it when 
it got to tlie top leadership, I don't know. Of course bail w^as not 
the issue, particularly, at that time. I think the Communists who had 
bonds and so forth were asked to make them available to the Civil 
Rights Congress to use for bail from time to time. 

Mr. Velde. 1 notice you use the term "Communist Party appara- 
tus." Was that a term generally used by members of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. I believe so. I am just thinking of the line of 
command when I am speaking of apparatus. There is a very definite 
form of organization, from the city to the district to the national 
level, and there are certain departments within each of these things. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to return to the instance you were de- 
scribing of a Communist Party member denying in court in the Dis- 
trict of Columbia that he was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mrs. Markward. It was in Virginia. 

Mr. Tavenner, In Virginia? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes, 

Mr. Tavenner. Where ? 

Mrs. Markward. In Arlington. 

Mr. Tavenner. In Arlington. Who was the individual ? 

Mrs. Markward. Casey Gurewitz. 

Mr. Tavenner. Spell the last name, please? 

Mrs. Markward. G-u-r-e-w-i-t-z. 

Mr. Tavenner. He was a person known to you to be a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say there was a device resorted to in this in- 
stance, by which he went through the formality of resigning and 
then being re-recruited into the party ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us a little more about that, and who originated 
that device, 

Mrs. Markward. Well, there was a specially called city committee 
meeting on a Saturday afternoon. This person was firmly criticized 
for not having had the knowledge and the reaction to not commit 
himself by denying being a Communist Party member, because he was 
well known as a Communist Party member. 

After they made him realize he was wrong in denying being a party 
member, it was agreed by all present that he was not a party member 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 765 

on the day when he stated that, and that he should be re-recruited into 
the party. . 

Mr. Taa-enner. In other words, it was a postdated anair? 
. Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner; Just a pure matter of form? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who took part in that meeting? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, it was at the home of William S. Johnson. 
1 believe Phil Frankf eld was then the district chairman and that he 
was there. William Taylor was there; myself; Casey Gurewitz. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that William C. Taylor? 

Mrs. Markw^ard. That is correct. I can't definitely state what other 
people were there. It is on record, but I can't recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. That seems to be quite a handy device, and one that 
could be used in many different ways. I am interested to know if it 
was used in connection with the signing of the Taft-Hartley affidavits 
where Communist Party members occupied positions in labor, and 
because of their positions were required to sign the non-Communist 
affidavit. Do you know anything about that? 

Mrs. Markward. I know in certain instances people who were re- 
quired to sign the affidavit resigned their membership in the party 
in order to sign the affidavit. Supposedly these people no longer 
attended Communist Party functions, but I had no reason to believe 
they removed themselves from the influence of the party. 

In the case of the cafeteria workers here in the District of Columbia, 
Richard Bancroft resigned his job as president of the union rather 
than sign the affidavit. In the case of Henry Thomas, he resigned f rom 
the party and kept his post in labor. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Of course, the situation in the Communist Party 
is different now than it was in 1947 and 19-18 when cards were issued 
and registrations took place in the Communist Party. 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. You made reference to the hearings that were 
conducted here in 1947, known as the "Hollywood hearings," and the 
fact that the conduct of the witnesses at those hearings was held up 
as a modelto the members of the Communist Party. 

Now, there was a person by the name of Charlotte Young Oram 
who appeared in connection with the Hollywood 10 hearings and 
refused to testify. 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with her? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes; I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know wdiether or not she was a member 
of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes ; I do. I was in a meeting with her the night 
before she appeared here. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was her conduct on the witness stand here in re- 
fusing to testify the subject of discussion at your meeting the previous 
evening? 

Mrs. ISIarkw^ard. No ; because she didn't know she was going to tes- 
tify the previous evening. 

Mr, Tavenner. Do you know whether or not, when she refused to 
testify, that action was taken pursuant to directions or instructions 
from the Communist Party ? 



766 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mrs. Markward. It is my belief it was. I do not have definite 
knowledge of a particular meeting with her. I know she said she had 
been criticized for not being belligerent enough to the committee. 
They felt she was too mild about the whole tiling when she was here. 

Mr. Tavenner. So, the leadership instructs members of the party 
to be rather positive when they appear before this committee? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Jackson". May I ask who comes up to all the high standards 
required of witnesses? 

Mrs. Markward. I don't have a direct answer to that question. I 
think they found something to criticize about almost everybody who 
has appeared before the committee. 

Mr. Kearney. Even including criticism of the committee? 

Mrs. Markward. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned the matter of security measures 
that were taken by the Communist Party, such as by the establish- 
ment of the group system, instructions about employing counsel, de- 
livery of money, cooperation with the Civil Kights Congress. Was 
there any other measure of security taken, such as provisions regard- 
ing the substitution of leadership in the event of necessity"? 

Mrs. Markward. I know that in 1949 there was under very definite 
consideration the setting up of a secondary leadership to take over 
in case the primary leadership was apprehended and taken out of 
activity. I do not know who, particularly, were the people who were 
chosen for that role, or if it was ever fully carried out during the 
time I was in the party. 

One other thing they did : They ruled that not all the top party 
leaders should be at the same place at the same time; that is, at party 
meetings or in picket lines. Always somebody of the top party lead- 
ers should be at some other place, in case a raid should take place 
and everybody should be picked up at the same time. 

Mr. Tavexner. Were any instructions given to the membership, 
or to the leadership, as to what course to follow in the event the party 
had to go underground ? I should say "further" underground. 

Mrs. Markward. I was instructed back in 1947 — of course, this 
was before the group system was fully in good working order — that, 
in case anything should come up suddenly, I should not ignore the 
Communist Party as such, but should go to work in a front organ- 
ization, where I would be contacted by the top party leadership for 
whatever activity they wanted me to do. As an individual Com- 
munist, I was instructed that in this front organization I would be 
asked to carry out activity to help the situation that the Communist 
Party was in. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there any other security measures which come 
to your mind ? 

Mrs. Markward. There were some funds which were not placed 
in the Communist Party bank account, so that they could not be seized 
and would be available to the party. There were certain things, like 
a mimeograph machine and a typewriter, which M^ere removed from 
the party office and secreted elsewhere, where they would be available 
in case they were needed. And the clubs were urged to secure, buy, 
and store mimeograph paper to use under such circumstances. This 
was not carried out to any great extent, but the message was taken 
to the clubs that it would be desirable to do that. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 767 

]Mr. Tavenner. How was this special fund to be handled '^ 
Mrs. ]\Tarkward. In Washinoton there was a legacy left to the 
party of $1,500, and the local organization divided it with the dis- 
trict organization, and the part that the local organization retained 
was not kept in the party bank account. That was taken somejilace. 
I never did know where that was. Only the city chairman knew 
where it was. I do know funds were borrowed from this account 
and returned to it, occasionally. And I do know that in 1949 there 
were attempts being made to raise additional funds to put with that. 
I don't know to what extent they had success with that. 

^Ir. Tavenner. Who left this $1,500 legacy to the party? 
Mrs. Markward. I believe the man's name was Coffin. I think his 
first name was Harry. I am not positive. We had some trouble with 
it with the heirs. They didn't want the party to get it. This was 
during the Communist Political Association, and the party had to 
prove to the court that they were the same organization as the Com- 
munist Party, Avhom he hacl named in the will. 

INIr. Doyle. May I ask there. Was that in the Washington district 
court ^ 

Mrs. Markward. Yes ; that is right. 
Mr. Doyle. About when? 

Mrs. Markward. I would say during 1944 or 1945. 
]Nfr. Tavenner. So the Communist Political Association had to es- 
tablish legally that it was the successor to the Communist Party? 
Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the chairman of the city committee at 
that time? 

Mrs. Markward. Elizabeth Searle handled all the details in con- 
nection with this ; so I imagine it was she. The money was delivered 
to the JNIorris Plan Bank when it finally did come through. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, while you were treasurer, you borrowed 
money temporarily from those funds? 

Mrs. Markward. I did not. I had notliing to do with this fund 
after it was put in this secret place, wherever it was. Elizabeth Searle 
or William Taylor had access to it and knew where it was, and I un- 
derstand somebody in the District may have known where it Avas. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether there have been additions to 
that fund ? 

Mrs. Markward. I know attempts were being made to raise money 
to make additions. I don't know that they were ever carried out. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know who was the custodian at any time of 
that fund? 

Mrs. Markward. I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are there any other matters of security that you 
can recall? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, I think we have noted that they were do- 
ing away with city- wide membership lists; and by 1947, 1948, or 
1949, the clubs had all been persuaded to do away with club member- 
ship lists. It was in the heads of the club leaders, and there were no 
membership lists in writing. We kept track of the members by know- 
ing there were 14 members in a particular club, and we could go to 
the club leader to know who they were. If one dro})]ied out or a new 
member was recruited, a number was subtracted or added. 

86629— 51— pt. 1 -3 



768 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

During the Communist Political Association it was common prac- 
tice to send notices by mail, and very often we followed it up by tele- 
phone calls. But after 1945 this was brought to a halt. There was 
nothing by mail, and they were told not to use the telephone at all. 
No notices of any meetings were to be sent out by mail or given by tele- 
phone. Everybody had to be contacted in person. 

Mr. Ta^^enner. You mentioned the name of Maurice Braverman as 
an attorney for the Communist Party in Baltimore. Was he a mem- 
ber at any time of the executive committee of which you were a mem- 
ber? 

Mrs, Markward. He was a member of the district committee. He 
was the lawyer who handled the business of the legacy for the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Braverman is also one of those who has ap- 
peared before this committee, I believe back in 1948, and refused to 
testify. Do you recall any of the circumstances about his appear- 
ance ; that is, as to discussions about the position he would take when 
he appeared before this committee '( 

Mrs. Markward. I don't recall. I wasn't involved in that especially. 

Mr. Tavenxer. I believe I have not asked you with regard to Sam 
Gordon ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know him ? 

Mrs. Markward. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of your own knowledge whether he 
was a member of the Communist Party or not? 

Mrs. Markward. I do. He was a very trusted member of the dis- 
trict organization. He was a member of the district committee and 
of the district board, I believe, during all the time I was connected 
with the organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. This particular Sam Gordon was a resident of Balti- 
more ; was he not ? 

JNIrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have asked you about the membership of the dis- 
trict committee, and you have also spoken of the district board. Will 
you distinguish between the functions of the district board and the 
district committee? 

Mrs. Markward. The district board was composed of members of 
the district committee, but it was a sort of executive-type organiza- 
tion. It was smaller in number than the district committee; it was 
easier to get a few people together when they needed to make a de- 
cision. I don't recall of any instance where a decision made by the 
district board was ever questioned by the district committee. In fact, 
in matters of confidence, such as an individual who needed to be 
brought to a conference, he was brought to this body instead of a 
larger meeting. The district boa id in reality was a higher body than 
the district committee, although it wasn't set up that way. 

Mr. Tavenner. It was the top group of functionaries of the party 
in district 4? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. Not necessarily functionaries, 
but the leading people. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the district board? 

Mrs. Markward. I was from the fall of 1945 until 1948. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 769 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names of those who served 
with you from time to time as members of the district board? 

Mrs. Markward. A1 Lannon was the chairman while he was here. 
He was replaced by Phil Frankfeld. 

Elizabeth Searle was a member. 

Dorothy Strange was a member, and when she was removed I took 
her place. 

William Johnson was a member. 

Mr. Tavenner. William S. Johnson? 

Mrs. Markward. William S. Johnson, from Washington. 

Henry Thomas was a member. 

IVIr. Tavenner. Tlie reason I mention William Johnson's middle 
initial, there are other William Johnsons. 

Mrs. INIarkward. That is right; there are a lot of William John- 
sons. 

Bill Taylor was a member after he came to Washington. 

Elsie Smith was a member after she became associated with the 
Washington leadership. 

Mr. Tavenner. Slie is now deceased? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. 

Did I mention Sam Gordon ? . 

Dorothy Rose Blumberg was a member. 

Albert Blumberg was a member after he got active in the district, 
but he Avas assigned to a national activity and did not participate on 
a local level so much. 

Maurice Braverman often attended the meetings of the board, 
particularly during election campaigns. He was particularly active 
with the political-action committee of the organization. 

Roy Wood was a member of the district board. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. The William C. Taylor to whom you referred is 
now in Los Angeles? 

Mrs. Markavard. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. The William S. Johnson to whom you referred was 
the business representative of Local 209 of the American Federation 
of Labor ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Which is the cafeteria 

Mrs. Markward. Pastry cooks and bartenders, I believe. Was it 
kitchen employees? Pastry cooks and kitchen employees. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Markward, I want to ask you regarding the 
Conununist Party membership of other persons in the Baltimore de- 
fense area. 

Mrs. Markward. All right. 

Mv. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with an individual by the name 
of Pete Forrest? 

Mrs. ]\Iarkward. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. F-o-r-r-e-s-t, who is employed at the American 
Smelting & Refining Co. in Baltimore. 

IMrs. Markward. I am acquainted with him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of j-our own knowledge whether he 
was a member of the Communist Party ? 
Mrs. Markward. He was. 

Mr. Tavenner. He is another of those who has appeared as a wit- 
ness before this committee in the past week or so, but who has not 
enlightened the committee on any material part of his activities. 



770 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Are you acquainted with Isidore Schwartz? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes, sir ; I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not he was a member of 
the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes; he was. He was a delegate to the national 
convention in 1944 ; either a delegate or an alternate. 

Mr. Tavenner. He has likewise appeared before this committee, 
and has testified that he was a former employee of the city of Balti- 
more. 

Mrs. Markward. I know he was doing something in a white-collar 
capacity. He was not of the open-party membership in Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. He, too, has refused to enlighten the committee on 
those phases of his experience. Do you know whether or not he was 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. I say he was in 1944. I didn't have anything to 
do with him in the latter days during 1949. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with his wife, Florence 
Schwartz ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes ; more or less the same circumstances. 

Mr. Tavenner. It has appeared in the testimony here, through her 
husband, that she was a notary public before whom the corporation 
papers were signed for the Book Shop Association of Baltimore, and 
that she was a member of it and an employee of it. Do you know 
whether or not she was a member of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Markward. I said she was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Levy Williamson? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not he was a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. He was. He attended meetings of the district 
coimnittee. 

Mr. TA^'^:NNER. He, too, has appeared before the committee as a 
witness. Do you recall whether or not he was employed by Bethle- 
hem Steel ? 

Mrs. Markward. I am not positive of that of my own knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Robert W. Lee ? 

]VIrs. Markavard. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the Communist Party, to your 
knowledge? 

Mrs. Markward. He was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether he was also a member of 
the party here in the District of Columbia as well as in the city of 
Baltimore ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes; he was. He was here immediately subse- 
quent to the war, and I had some acquaintance with him. He was 
doing some technical work for the party, and I had occasion to meet 
him in that regard. Then I knew he transferred out, and at a later 
date he appeared at various meetings m Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the nature of the technical work ? 

Mrs. Markward. His club was addressing envelopes when we were 
doing mass mailing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he became a worker in the 
steel industry ? 

Mrs, Markward. I think he did. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 771 

]Mr. DoYToE. Did they use machines of any kind to address the 
envelopes ^ 

Mrs. Markwakd. No. We did -it aJl by hand. That is what made 
it such a job. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Irving Winkler ? 

JNIrs. Markward. Yes. 

Mr. Tavexner. Do you know whether or not he was a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. He was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavexner. Were you acquainted with his wife, Sally ? 

Mrs. Markward. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she a member of the Communist Party to your 
knowledge ? 

Mrs. Markward. She was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell the committee what the nature of the 
Communist activities was of either the husband or the wife ? 

Mrs. Markward. Both of them were active in youth work. Both of 
them worked with some of the so-called front organizations as well as 
the Communist Party itself. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquanited with Herbert J. Nichol ? 

Mrs. Markward. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not he represented the 
Communist Party in the hearing conducted on the Ober law — I am 
mistaken about his representing the Communist Party — represented 
the UE in a hearing regarding the Ober law. Do you recall that ? 

Mrs. Markward. I do not recall that. I am sorry. I recall him 
in district committee meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you the March 6, 1949, edition of the Wash- 
ington Post, '%vhich has the photographs of various persons appearing 
in the hearing relating to the Ober law in ]\Iaryland. The second 
picture from the right is alleged to be, there is a notation here, "Her- 
bert J. Nichol, union objector." 

Will you look at the photograph and state whether or not he is the 
same person to whom you referred ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes, he is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he known by any other name ? 

Mrs. Markward. He was also called Herb Silver, I believe, at least 
on one occasion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he known to you to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. Markward. He was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name 
of William Blank? 

Mrs. Markward. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he known to you to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes, he was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Martin Dean? 

Mrs. Markward. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time you knew him, was he employed in the 
shipyard industry in Baltimore? 

Mrs. Markward. I was never certain of his employment. I did 
meet him at various Communist Party meetings in Baltimore. 



772 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you knew him as a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Irving Kandel, 
K-a-n-d-e-1? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes^ I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. How did you have occasion to know that ? 

Mrs. Markward. He attended district committee meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. He is also one of those who has appeared before the 
committee and refused to answer. 

Mr. Sam Fox is another witness who appeared before this com- 
mittee. I am not certain whether he admitted that he was a candi- 
date of the Progressive Party for the United States Senate in Mary- 
land in 1950 or not. 

Mr. Kearney. I think, Mr. Counsel, he refused to answer that ques- 
tion on the ground he might incriminate himself. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is my recollection, that he refused to answer 
whether he was a candidate. Do you know whether he was a candi- 
date or not for the United States Senate in 1950? 

Mrs. Markward. I was not acquainted with his activities at that 
time. I read about it in the newspaper. 

Mr. Tavenner. Had you had acquaintance with him in the past? 

Mrs. Markward. I had. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him as a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Markward. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. How did you know that? 

Mrs. Markward. He attended meetings of the district committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with his wife, Kuth Fox ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. 

Mr. Taa^enner. Was she a member of the Communist I'arty ? 

Mrs. Markward. She was. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the time that you knew Mrs. Ruth Fox, was 
she at any time employed by the United Electrical, Radio and Ma- 
chine Workers of America? 

Mrs. Markward. 1 was not familiar with her employment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Louis Pearlman is another person who ap- 
peared recently before this committee and refused to testify. Were 
you acquainted with him? 

Mrs. Markward. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the Communist Party, to your 
knowledge ? 

Mrs. Markward. He was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what his employment was in Balti- 
more when you knew him? ' 

Mrs. Markward. I was not fully acquainted with that. He did 
allow us to use his home at the time of this convention. It was one 
of the places where our committee met. That was the reason I knew 
him in Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us more about the meetings you attended in 
his home. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 773 

]\Irs. Markward. This was the conference I told yoii about. I was 
on tlie nominating committee, and his home was used for the meeting 
all day Friday. I knew more about him after he came to Washing- 
ton. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. What did you know about him in Washington? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, the last knowledge I had, he was running 
a grocery store in the 1800 block of G Street NW., and he lived in the 
1800 block of Irving Street NW., and his home was a continual place 
of meetings for the youth group, because his daughter was associated 
with that group. Tie was a member of the Petworth Club. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was his daughter's name? 

Mrs. Markward. Thelma. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Did you know other members of the family ? 

Mrs. Markward. I knew his wife, Rebecca. She was a member of 
the Petworth Club. I knew Willie, a member of the Southeast Club; 
and Albert, a member of the Youth Club. I think Albert dropped 
out in 1949 because he was unable to be active, but he continued to give 
financial aid to the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell us any more about the activities of 
Louis Pearlman in the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. I don't know too much of his activities, except I 
knew he was a financial supporter of the party and apparently was a 
member in good standing of his club. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what way do you mean he financially supported 
the party? 

Mrs. Markward, Wlien we had fund drives, which was often, he 
made contributions ; paid his dues. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you mention a son by tlie name of Albert ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You did. Are you acquainted with a person by the 
name of Mrs. Chase Isaacs ? 

Mrs. Markward. I am. She was also known as "Manui" Isaacs. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Mama" Isaacs. Do you know whether or not she 
was a member of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Markward. I know that she was. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of her activities in the party ? 

Mrs. Markward. She apparently was very close to the seamen. I 
imagine that is where she got the nickname "Mama," but I don't know 
just exactly what she was doing. She was one of the most trusted 
and revered members that I came in contact with in Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Julia Kotelchuck, K-o- 
t-e-1-c-h-u-c-k ? 

Mrs. Markward. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. She was. 

Mr. Tavenner. How did you know this ? 

Mrs. Markward. She was one of the members who was elected to 
the district committee in 1945. She was listed as a housewife on the 
party records. She only attended one or two meetings of the district 
committee after that. In 1946, in the fall, she was removed from the 
district committee without prejudice because they felt that for security 
reasons she should not have been put on there in the first place. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information in- 
dicating that Connie Jackson, formerly of Baltimore, is now in the 
city of Philadelphia. Were you acquainted with her ? 



774 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mrs. Markward.- I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she a member of the Communist Party, to your 
knowledge ? 

Mrs. Markward. She was a Communist Party paid functionary. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the character of her duties ? 

Mrs. Markward. I think she was membersliip director for Balti- 
more. I think she carried district-wide duties also in that connection. 

Mr, Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Lou Gilbert ? 

Mrs. Markward. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us briefly wdiat you know about him ? 

INIrs. Markward. My association wdth him was on this leadership 
nominatin^r committee, ])articularly. i understood he was a func- 
tionary in the Furniture Workers Union in Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. International representative ; wasn't he? 

Mrs. Markw^ard. I didn't know what post he held. He transferred 
out of the district sometime subsequent to the 1945 convention. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to committee information, he is now in 
Philadelphia. Is that correct? 

Mrs. Markward.' I don't know anything about him after he left 
Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have mentioned Mr. Herb Kransdorf . 

Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with his wife ? 

Mrs. Markward. Not personally acquainted. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have also mentioned Jack Zucker, who was an 
international organizer in Baltimore of the United Electrical, Kadio 
and Machine Workers of America, and I believe you have already tes- 
tified that he was known to you to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Were you acquainted with his wife ? 

Mrs. Markward. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she known to you to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. Markward. She was. I knew them in Washington. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall her first name ? 

Mrs. Markward. Anne. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Esvand Jones, E-s-v-a-n-d ? 

Mrs. Markward. I am. E-s-v-e-n-d. 

Mr. Tavenner. E-s-v-e-n-d? 

Mrs. Markward. Correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your association with Esvend Jones? 

Mrs. Markward. She was the wife of George Jones, who was a 
student at George Washington University, a very active and militant 
student there, and after he was recruited and became such a good party 
member, she was recruited. I met with her on the District Youth 
Commission repeatedly during 1949. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where Esvend Jones is now ? 

Mrs. Markw^\rd. The last of my knowledge she was in Baltimore. 

Mr. Ta%^nner. Were you acquainted with Oscar Roberts? 

Mrs. Markw^^rd. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know his wife, Mary Roberts? 

Mrs. Markward. I knew Mary Roberts in Baltimore. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 775 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she a member of the Communist Party to your 
knowledge? 

Mrs. IMarkward. She was. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you know that? 

Mrs. Markward. I saw her at various district committee meetings 
and at district conventions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the name of Al Lannon's wife? 

Mrs. Markward. Elva, I believe. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Do you know whether or not she was a member of 
the Communist Party? 

Iklrs. Markward. 1 know that she was. 

Mr. Ta^-enner. Do you know the name of the wife of Phil Frank- 
f eld ? 

Mrs. Markward. Jean. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she known to you to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. JNIarkward. She w^as. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. You have told us that you remained at your post of 
work from 1943, I believe, until October 1949 ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that you stopped because of the condition of 
your health ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. I was out for a little while during 
the summer of 1949, and went back, and then had to stop permanently. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Now that you have had the opportunity to tell 
publicly the experience that you have had in the Communist Party, 
at least\it the present time partially, because your other testimony was 
in executive session, have you anything further to say regarding your 
experience, working as an undercover agent over this period of nearly 

7 vears ? 

"Mrs. Markward. Well, I want to say that I definitely became con- 
vinced during this period that I was doing something that needed to 
be done ; that this was an organization that was a threat to our Ameri- 
can form of government ; and I definitely reported everything as I saw 
it, not as 1 wanted to think, but as it occurred, and these facts con- 
vinced me of the fact that this was an organization that was not in the 
best interests of this country. I mean, that was the reason I stuck out 
this activity for as long as I did, because I thought it was necessary for 
our Government to be acquainted with the aims and what this organ- 
ization was doing. 

Mr. Ta^tsnner. You testified in executive session, and it seems that 
that testimony found its way into the press last week, and the com- 
mittee intends to call you back at a later time regarding the general 
over-all subject of that testimony, which we have not gone into today. 
But when the testimony was printed, there was not printed with it 
the foreword, which had not been actually prepared at that time, but 
probably was on that very day prepared, and I think, inasmuch as it 
refers to you, I should read this into the record at this time. This 
foreword was intended to accompany that testimony if it was ever to 
be published aside from a public hearing. [Reading:] 

The committee wishes to commencl the Federal Bureau of Investigation for its 
foresight and efficiency in employing the witness, whose testimony appears herein, 
as a confidential undercover operator. It is to tlie credit of the Bureau that, 
through its foresight in employing the witness, the committee is able to present 
a complete expose of the Communist Party in the District of Columbia. 



776 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Of course you have been talking about Baltimore today. [Contin- 
uing reading:] 

The committee wishes also to commend the witness for her courage and forti- 
tude in performing efficiently a highly patriotic service. 

In its desire to cooperate with the executive branch of the Government, the 
committee has purposely omitted the names of several individuals identified as 
Communists by the witness, because of the fact that prosecution against certain 
of these persons may be entertained in tlie near future. 

I want to add my personal commendation to that, because I person- 
ally am very proud of the fact that your antecedents stem from my 
part of the country. 

Mr. Kearney. May I make a personal observation ? 

Mr. Walter. I think, in view of the premature release of the state- 
ment, it will be in order for the present occupant of the chair to call 
the witness' attention to the fact that she mentioned the names of* 
Irving Studenberg, Dan Crystal, and Natalie Lamken as having been 
employed by United States News and World Report. 

The managing editor of that magazine informs me that these people 
were never members of the staff of the magazine United States News 
and World Report, but that they were employed by a publishing com- 
pany that publishes its periodicals. I think that letter should be 
made a part of the record at this point. 

(The letter above referred to is as follows:) 

United States News and World Report, 

Washington, July 9, 1951. 
Un- American Activities Committee, 

House of Representatives, Washington 25, D. C. 

(Attention : Hon. Francis E. Walter, acting chairman.) 

Gentlemen : Our attention has been drawn to the testimony on June 11, 1951, 
before a subcommittee of your conmiittee by Mrs. Mary Stalcup Markward. In 
the course of her testimony she referred to Communist activities and mentioned 
the names of Irving Studenberg, Dan Crystal, and Natalie Lamken as employed 
by this magazine, United States News and World Report. 

This is to advise that none of the three persons mentioned above has ever 
been a member of the staff of this magazine, United States News and World 
Report. 

I am advised that the publishing company which issues our magazine did 
employ the three persons mentioned — one as a printer and the other two in a 
reference service organization which was sold by our publishing company to 
other owners in 1946. Hence, the persons mentioned above have not since 1946 
been employees of any organization or business owned by our publishing com- 
pany. 

We ask that this be made a part of the printed record. 
Sincerely yours, 

Carson F. Lyman, Managing Editor. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Kearney. 

Mr. Kearney. Following the remarks of counsel, I just wanted to 
add my own personal thanks for your testimony here today, and to 
say that in my humble opinion the people of this country owe you 
many, many thanks. It does take courage to do what you have done, 
and we are deeply grateful. 

Mr. Walter. I believe several members of the committee want to 
ask some questions. 

Mr. Doyle, have you any questions ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes, please. 

I made some notes as you went along. 

I think when our counsel worded his appreciation, he certainly 
included me in the commendation. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 777 

As near as I could, I made exact notes of the parts of your testi- 
mony that I want to question you about. You said something like 
this, "After the revitalization of the Communist Party." I think 
no date was fixed at which you used that term "revitalization." What 
did you refer to ? 

Mrs. Markw^\rd. I was speaking of the change back to the Commu- 
nist Party from the Comnumist Political Association. In Washing- 
ton the convention was held October 14, 1945. We had prior conven- 
tions nationally and in the district. 

Mr. Doyle. You used this kind of language, "the revolutionary 
part of it was turned down because it was believed a peaceful revolu- 
tion could not be attained." I think that is pretty much your own 
words. What did you mean by the revolutionary part being turned 
down and their belief that a peaceful revolution could not be attained, 
as far as the United States was concerned? 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe the witness said "toned" down. 

Mr. Doyle. What did you mean by that ? 

Mrs. Markward. I meant that in Communist Political Association 
days the policy of the need for a revolution in this country was not the 
center of interest. The education was on books Earl Browder was 
writing and on current events, rather than on the party classics. Upon 
the return to the Communist Party line, reemphasis was placed on the 
revolutionary writings of Marx and Lenin and the things they put 
forth. 

Mr. Doyle. What sort of revolution? 

Mrs. Markward. It was the teaching of the part}^ members that the 
things they want to attain can never be attained under the present 
form of government in the United States ; that the only way they are 
going to have the utopia they are dreaming about is to transform our 
form of government to a Communist form of government, of which 
the Soviet Union is the example. 

Mr. Doyle. Were they projecting into the program at that time 
that if need be there should be any violent revolution ? 

Mrs. Markward. The way they said it was that it was necessary that 
it take place, and they did not think the Government would let it take 
place peacefully, so violence would be necessary, because our present 
Government would not give up peacefully. 

Mr. Doyle. From what you observed up to the time you left the 
Federal Bureau of Investigation, was it the feeling of the members 
of the Communist Party whom you knew personally, that as long as 
it could not be obtained peaceably, that they would use force if 
necessary ? 

Mrs. Markward. That was the general feeling. Of course the phase 
they were in at this time was building friends so that if they had 
to use force they would have it to use. They weren't ready to do that 
yet, so they didn't go into details about the things to take place. 

Mr. DoTLE. You said, "It was agreed it was necessary to go back to 
the more revolutionary program of the Communist Party." 

That is the way I wrote it down. I wrote it down so that I could 
ask more direct questions and be more exact in my questions. 

I wonder if you are familiar with the text of the law under which 
this committee functions? Have you ever read it? 

Mrs. Markward. I have not read it. 



778 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Doyle. You realize, I suppose, that we are directed to investi- 
gate and make report of any subversive conduct in this country which 
emanates from any foreign country or domestically within our own 
country. 

Do you feel, from what you know, that the revolutionary program 
you referred to here when you said they felt it was necessary to go 
back to the more revolutionary program of the Communist Party, 
did that emanate from the Soviet Union ? 

INIrs. Markward. It emanates from the classics of Marx, Lenin, 
and Engels, and the basic premise in everything the Communist Party 
has done, to my knowledge, is that the Soviet Union is always right 
in policies and in their application of what Marx and Lenin have 
done. Therefore, I think we can almost say they are taking the dic- 
tation of the Soviet Union. 

Mr. Doyle. Am I to understand from your testimony that the 
rank and file of the Comuiunist Party as you know it in this country 
is willing or does always take the Soviet Union policy and program 
in preference to our own American ideals and programs ? 

Mrs. Markward. They believe that the Soviet Union has the cor- 
rect form of government, that it is the government of the people, 
and therefore it is correct; and that the United States has a capital- 
ist form of governm-ent that is not the government of the people, and 
therefore it is necessarily wrong. 

Mr. Doyle. In your testimony you stated that there was a time 
when they all agreed they would not bear arms against the Soviet 
Union. I didn't get the date of that, unless it was in March and 
April 194:\>. 

Mrs. INIarkward. It was somewhere close to that. 

Mr. Doyle. And is that still the edict of the Communist Party in 
the United States? 

Mrs. ]NL\RKWARD. I have never heard of any change. I might men- 
tion here that these things came out more forcefully in 194:8 and 
1949. The Avhole membership of the Communist Party became in- 
volved then. Prior to that a great many naive people were recruited 
into the party, and a great many left the party when they found 
out what they were trying to do. 

Mr. Doyle. You stated that various minority groups were repre- 
sented on the committee also. What groups did you refer to by minor- 
ity groups ? 

Mrs. Markward. In Washington and Baltimore the Negro people 
were particularly emphasized. AVomen are also considered a minority 
group by the party. They had to have a few women on the com- 
mittee. 

In iialtimore various national groups — some of the Slovak groups, 
particularly, and the IWO, composed particularly of some Jewish 
people — were represented as minority groups. 

Mr. Doyle. Why, if you know, was the emphasis upon having 
representation of the minority groups, especially the Negro people? 

Mrs. Markward. That was the way to gain ground and talk to 
these people. If you can keep impressed on a person that he is a Negro 
instead of an American, and tell him how he is not treated right 
in America, rather than telling him how things could be made bet- 
ter in America, you can make friends with those people, and some- 
times they Avill think the Communist Party has the answer to their 
problems. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 779 

Many people Mere fooled into joinin^r the party, and many left 
Avhen they found out the party pro<>-ram did not follow through with 
these things. 

T^Ir. Doyle. You stated an agreement was made after the last war 
to leave the way clear for the new democracies in Europe. Am I to 
understand from that that the Communist Party of the United States 
was definitely backing the projection of Soviet conmiunism in the 
nations in Europe right after the war, and that is what the Commu- 
nist Party of the United States wanted to be done ? 

INIrs. Markward. I think that is true. During the war and immedi-- 
ately afterward there were discussions of how much of the world was 
controlled by Conununists. I think Eussia controlled one-sixth. Then 
they could expand this with China. 

Mr. DoYi.E. Did you ever attend any meetings, or know of any 
meetings, where any Russian Communists came to this country and 
si)oke at your Communist meetings in this country? 

Mrs. Markward. I had no direct knowledge of that. I recall one 
occasion when a Communist from India came and addressed the city 
committee. 

Mr. Doyle. Did any of the Communists with whom you were ac- 
quainted go to Russia and then return? 

jNIrs. INIarkward. No. 

Mr. Doyle. These Communist Party leaders you referred to, were 
any of them paid salaries for the work thev did for the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Markward. What party leaders? 

Mr. Doyle. Any of them. 

Mrs. INIarkward. Phil Frankfeld Avas; Al Lannon was; George 
Mey^er ; Herb Kransdorf ; Elizabeth Searle ; Roy Wood ; William Tay- 
lor; William Johnson. 

Mr. Doyle. What kind of salary? 

Mrs. Markward. Moderate. Elizabeth Searle — you must realize 
she worked from 10 in the morning until at least 12 at night — was 
getting $25 a week. • I think Roy Wood was getting $75, with three 
children and a wife to support. They put a minimum a person could 
get along on, and paid them tliat. 

Mr. Doyle. What group determined the salary to be paid? 

IMrs. jNIarkward. The district committee and the cit}^ committee. 
 Mr. Doyle. Where did the money come from to pay these salaries ? 

INIrs. JNIarkward. A certain percentage of the dues was kept in the 
district, and all members were urged to make contributions over and 
above their dues, and to ask non-Communist friends to make contribu- 
tions to the part3^ We had regular fund drives where a percentage of 
the money raised was kept in the district, and the- rest went to the 
higher organization. 

Mr. Doyle. By "higher" you mean the national organization? 

Mrs. Markward. I do. 

Mr. Doyle. You referred to Mr. Meyer as labor secretary. Was he 
on salary ? 

Mrs. Markward. To the best of my knowledge. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you know what his salary was ? 

Mrs. INIarkward. No. 

Mr. Doyle. In several places in your testimony you referred to 
youth groups. I am asking about Communist youth groups. What 



780 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

ages of children did tliey try to group together in order to promul- 
gate Communist teachings ? 

Mrs. Markward. During the period of my association with them, 
the j^outh were rather old. They considered anybody up to 35 a 
youth, and most of them were over 25, 1 would say. 

Mr. DoTLE. Of course, then, the term "youth" was a misnomer, 
wasn't it ? 

Mrs. Markward. It was, but their aim was to reach the younger 
people. 

Mr. Doyle. Did they reach the younger people below 25 ? I think 
of youth as teen-age children. 

Mrs. Markward. The American Youth for Democracy did, but it 
was not considered by the Communists as a very active organization. 

When the Young Progressives of America was organized, the Com- 
munists tried to the best of their ability to take it over. In Washing- 
ton they pretty well succeeded in doing that. 

Mr. Doyle. You said Milton Self was more or less assigned to 
youth work. Was he full time ? 

Mrs. Markward. No. He was a responsible member of the district 
committee who was assigned from the district committee to give par- 
ticular attention to this phase of work. 

Mr. Doyle. I believe you said he attended national meetings of 
youth organizations? 

Mrs. Markward. What I said was, when the national board called 
conferences on youth problems, he was often sent from the district to 
attend them and give the district point of view and bring back the 
national point of view. 

Mr. Doyle. I am trying to get an elaboration of points I think 
very important which you did not have an opportunity, under the 
questioning of our worthy counsel, to go into. 

What emphasis, if any, was being placed, as you last knew it, by 
the Communist Party on youth work ? By youth work I don't mean 
over 25 ; I mean teen-age children. 

Mrs. Markward. Emphasis was being placed on reorganizing the 
entire youth organization. This was in the works prior to the con- 
viction of the 11 top Communist leaders, and it was a desirable thing 
to do. It was to replace the old YCL, in effect, and be not quite so 
Red, but in essence the same type of organization. 

When the 11 top Communists were being tried, it was felt foolish to 
set up an entire new organization which would probably be liquidated 
under the Smith Act. So it was held off. 

In 1949 a conference was called in Chicago at which a new organ- 
ization. Labor Youth League, was organized. The national board of 
the Communist Party selected Charles Payne to represent Washing- 
ton, to see that the Labor Youth League was set up. 

When he returned to Washington he was asked why it was called 
a Marxist youth organization rather than a Marxist-Lenin organiza- 
tion. He said Marx laid down the principles, but Lenin had the action 
program, and in that way they thought they could avoid prosecution 
under the Smith Act. 

Mr. Doyle. They are now realizing they must get to the youth of 
America ; is that true ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is true. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you know if they have increased their budget or 
the number of their personnel in this regard ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 781 

Mrs. Markward. They didn't immediately increase their budget, 
because $15 to $30 a month had ahnost constantly gone to the youth 
organization. 

Mr. Doyle. I hope the committee will labor with me a moment or 
two more. I think the work we are doing in regard to the youth of 
America is probably as important as in any field. 

You said, "I am certain that certain individuals were assigned to 
go to work in the steel industry." You didn't name those individuals. 
Why were those individuals, in your judgment, selected to go in the 
steel industry ? 

Mrs. Markward. Because it was so foreign to the work they had 
been doing. Robert Lee, for example, had been a white-collar man. 

Mr. Doyle. Why would he be selected to go to work in the steel 
industry? I remember his appearing before this committee. 

Mrs. Markward. Evidently because they thought he had leadership 
capabilities. A Communist is judged by the number of other people 
he can lead. 

Mr. Tavenxer. May I interrupt at this point? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the Charles Payne to whom you referred 
Charles F, Payne? 

Mrs. Markward. I don't know his middle initial. He was referred 
to as "Top"' around the party organization. 

Mr. Doyle. Are they doing anything in regard to Negro youth? 
Do they include them with the other ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes, indeed, Negro, working-class j^outh, any 
youth was bait. 

Mr. Doyle. You said the ground work for the group system had 
been set up before the passage of the Ober law. Do you remember 
that? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. What condition was it that made the Communist Party 
set up a group system nationally before the passage of the Ober law? 
What condition were they trying to meet ? 

Mrs. I\Iarkward. We saw a tightening up on the part of our Gov- 
ermnent against Communist activities. The group system must be 
something that has been tried all over the world in the Communist 
Party over the years. They used it here as an administrative agency, 
to collect dues and so forth, and then it was ready when it was needed 
from the security angle. 

Mr. Doyle. In regard to this resignation which was dated back to 
accommodate the legal needs of the party you referred to, do I under- 
stand fi'om your testimony that when this particular party had this 
resignation dated back as you related, if he then testified he had re- 
signed prior to the time of the hearing in court, he was not telling the 
truth in court; wouldn't that be the effect, according to the facts as 
you know them? 

Mrs, Markward. That is true. 

Mr. Doyle. Then he lied to the court ? 

^Irs. JNIarkward. Yes. He was a Communist the day before and 
the day afterward, and he was at that time. 

Mr. Doyle. Was it the practice of the Communists to use that device 
on the courts to protect Communist members ? 



782 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mrs. Markward. I don't tliink they desired to do it. From the 
association I had with them, I thought they would be more apt to 
use it in the case of a person who was not so openly a Communist. 

Mr. DoTLE. In your judgment — I feel this is a fair question; if you 
don't, just say so and don't answer it: When known Communists 
come before this committee, and we know in advance they have been 
issued certain Communist Party cards, and know from the records 
they are Communists in many cases, and in answer to our question 
whether or not they are members of the Communist Party they re- 
fuse to answer on the ground the answer might incriminate them,' do 
they thus ansAver because they are so instructed at Communist Party 
meetings such as you have described, and 1 think you attended one 
or two^ 

Mrs. Markward. I believe the original direction was not to use the 
ground of self-incrimination in refusing to answer, but to use the 
constitutional grounds of tlie first and fifth amendments. They 
didn't want to sa}^ being a Comnuinist Party member was incriminat- 
ing. But since they have found the Supreme Court upholds the 
self-incrimination end of it, they use it more freely. 

I think that was the criticism of some of the witnesses who appeared 
here, that some Used one angle and some another. 

Mr. Doyle. I suppose this is technical, but I always look up and 
remember the definition in Webster's dictionary of the term subver- 
sive. I suppose you know it means the overthrow ; utterly ruin ; to 
undermine the morale, allegiance, and faith of. 

Do I understand from your testimony that the Communist Party 
in our Nation would be willing to go to that limit to achieve its 
purposes ? 

Mrs. Markward. From everything I have been able to find out from 
my association in the Communist Party, it fits the definition pretty 
well. 

Mr. DoTLE. I am from California. I will ask you this : Do you 
know of any Communist activities that we should know about? Is 
there any project from the east coast to the west coast? Do you know 
any Communist Party members from this area who have gone to 
California to live ? 

Mrs. Markward. Well, two former paid functionaries from Wash- 
ington were in Los Angeles the last I heard. 

Mr. Doyle. Is it fair for me to ask who they are ? 

Mrs. Markward. William C. Taylor went there and assumed the 
post formerly held by Pettis Perry. And Elizabeth Searle went to 
California for her health, and she was to live with W^illiam Taylor — 
I mean his family, him and his wife — when she left hei-e. 

Mr. Doyle. Again I thank you, and I hope my long cpiestioning 
has not unduly tired you. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Frazier. 

]SIr. Frazier. Do you know to what extent the Connnunist Party 
was successful in infiltrating its membership into the steel industry? 

Mrs. Markward. I believe I stated that they did not have such a 
large number of members here. I think they wei'e going slowly and 
surely. When the Ober law became such a hot issue in 1!)41), that 
and the trial of the 11 and other things overshadowed their work in 
the steel industry, and it slowed them a little bit, but they were going 
ahead slowly and surely. 



COMMUIvriST ACTIVITIES IX BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 783 

Mr. Frazier. Thank 3^011 very miicli for your testimony. 

^Ir. Walter. Uv. Velde. 

]Mr. Velde. You mentioned a while ago you were a delegate to a 
national convent ion in New York. In Avhat year ? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. I was a visitor in 1944. That is when the 
Connnnnist Party was changed to the Communist Political Asso- 
ciation. 

Mr. Velde. You were not a delegate ? 

JVIrs. Markward. I Avas not. 

JSIr. Velde. Will you briefly describe the procedure at that national 
convention of the Communist Party — who were the big shots, and 
so on ? 

Mrs. Markward. I believe this convention was different from the 
others held, so it is probably not a good pattern. To this conven- 
tion I believe there was an enlarged delegation from Baltimore. I 
would say 12 went from our district, delegates and alternates. I 
think anybody wdio had recruited as many as 12 members was in- 
vited. So it was wide open. 

Mr. Velde. That is the convention wdiere the Communist Political 
Association was first formed^ 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. 

Mr. Velde. However, it was decided in meetings prior to that 
time ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Velde, Was Earl Browder present at that convention? 

Mrs. Markward. Yes. He chaired the meeting and made the motion 
that the Communist Party be dissolved. There was general applause 
for quite a period of time, about 10 minutes, and then a motion was 
made to form an organization under the policies of the Communist 
Political Association. 1 think the actual name Communist Political 
Asssociation was adopted later, 

Mr. Velde. Was the hammer and sickle flag evident ? 

INIrs. Markward. I believe" not. 

Mr. Velde. You had never attended any Communist Party conven- 
tions prior to that time? 

]\lrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Velde. I understand prior to that time the hammer and sickle 
flag was very much in evidence. 

I want to ask you one more question relative to your knowledge 
of Communist Party infiltration into educational institutions in INIary- 
land. Do you know if there was any attempt made to organize youth 
groups in schools and colleges in Maryland ? 

Mrs. JNIarkward. There was. 

Mr. Velde. Tell about that. 

Mrs. Markward. The youth group of tlie University of Maryland 
was under the students of the city of Washington rather than the 
State of Maryland. I believe there were only four members at that 
university, and through transportation difficulties they were not too 
active in carrying out the policies of the party. 

There was a group at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore. 
This group was under the leadership of the white-collar section in 
Baltimore, the professional group. 

86629— 51— pt. 1 4 



784 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMO'RE DEFENSE AREA 

After the 1948 convention attempts were being made to bring these 
people under the influence of the youth director, then under the influ- 
ence of the white-collar section of the party. 

Mr. Velde. Do you know of any other infiltration, either of students 
or faculties, in schools and universities in Maryland'^ 
Mrs. Markward. That is all the information I have. 
Mr. Velde. As to the Communist Party connection with the Pro- 
gressive Party, could you describe that briefly '^ 
Mrs. Markward. The Progressive Party 'i 

Mr. Velde, Yes. Was the Progressive Party infiltrated by the 
Communist Party after it was organized, or was the Communist 
Party responsible for the beginning of the Progressive Party or- 
ganization ? 

Mrs. Markward. I don't belieA'e the Progressive Party could have 
been organized without the energy and activity of various Communists 
in Maryland and the District of Columbia. They decided it was a 
desirable organization, and put everything they had to see that it was 
organized. Several committees, known as political action committees, 
were set up on city and district levels, and the people on those com- 
mittees were to see that the Progressive Party did function. 

Mr. Velde. Did any of the funds of the Communist Party go into 
the campaign of the Progressive Party ? 

Mrs. Markavard. I don't know one way or another. 
Mr. Velde. In Maryland? 
Mrs. Markward. I don't know. 

Mr. Velde. I certainly appreciate your testimony. It was very 
enlightening. 

Mrs. ISIarkward. Thank you. 
Mr. Walter. Mr, Jackson. 

Mr, Jackson. Do you happen to know where in California the two 
functionaries you mentioned went ? 

Mrs. ISIarkward. Los Angeles, I believe, 
Mr. Jackson. I was afraid of that. 

We hear a great deal from witnesses before this committee with 
respect to hysteria. The committee is hysterical ; the American people 
are hysterical ; everybody is hysterical except the witness and members 
of the Communist Party and fellow travelers. 

"\Miat is your experience with respect to hysteria in general? 
Mrs. Markward, My observation is that the Communists are hys- 
terical. This, I believe, is a planned function of the Communist Party, 
particularly during 1949 when the party was on trial. In order to 
maintain the loyalty of their membership, it became an emotional 
thing. They couldn't appeal to reason, so they appealed to the emo- 
tions of the members. 

Mr. Jackson. In the meetings ? 

Mrs. Markward. Within the Communist Party meetings as well as 
mass meetings. This was done by one leader after another. You can 
hear the things they say from now to doomsday, but unless you see 
their facial expressions and the tones of their voices, you cannot know 
the effect of such appeals. 

(Representative John S. Wood, chairman of the committee, entered 
t he hearing room.) 

Mr. Jackson. Much like the old-fashioned camp meetings — hitting 
the sawdust trail ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 785 

Mrs. Markward. That is the impression I got. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you believe there are today in Washington and 
Baltimore Communist cells which are functioning? 

Mrs. Markward. I believe so. 

Mr. Jackson. From your own observation and experience, would 
you say you consider the Communist Party and its activities to be 
in the nature of a conspiracy ? 

Mrs. ]\Iarkward. I do. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you believe that the policies as carried out in the 
connnunity groups are dictated by the di&trict committee, the national 
connnittee, and that those orders are in turn received from a foreign 
power ? 

Mrs. Markward. I believe, through observing the functioning of the 
organization, that the jieople in the lower levels of the American 
Communist Party dare think only what they have been told to think 
by the higher committee. The logical conclusion is that somebody 
is giving the word on how the people at the top are thinking. 

Mr. Jackson. Are all Communists to take those instructions without 
question ? 

Mrs. Markward. That has been my experience. 

Mr. Jackson. As between a policy of the Communist Party and a 
law of regulation of the United States, what would be expected of a 
Communist Party member? 

Mrs. Markward. He would be expected to follow the rule of the 
Communist Party first. 

One of the things that comes up in the election of Communist Party 
officers is whether he has been tested, and the test seems to be how many 
times he has been arrested. If he didn't talk about this committee, 
that would be a test he did not pass. 

Mr. Jackson. We have had many passing grades. 

Is it your considered opinion that the Communist Party believes 
in the overthrow of every constitutional form of government over the 
world that does not agree with it ? 

]Mis. Markward. That is my belief. 

Mr. Jackson. By force and violence if necessary ? 

Mrs. Markward. That is correct. 

Mr. Jackson. You have read newspaper stories and heard a lot of 
the witnesses who have appeared before this committee and who have 
refused to answer the questions put by committee counsel. Have you 
known any of the witnesses who have appeared before this committee? 

JNIrs. Markward. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Have they acknowledged their party membership? 

Mrs. Markward. I have never known one who would. Henry 
Thomas is one who has. 

Mr. Wood. The witness named several this morning who had 
appeared and refused to answer questions. 

Mr. Jackson. U'hey hold on to their constitutional rights the same as 
a wrestler in serious trouble holds on to the ropes. 
• Mrs. Markward. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you feel that the Communist Party, in its ai)i)eals 
to minority groups, is as primarily concerned with the welfare of the 
minority groups as it is in attaining its end goal ? 

Mrs. Markward. I do not believe they are primarily interested in 
the welfare of the minority groups. It is like having a gnat in your 
eye, and if you keep rubbing it and rubbing it can hurt an awful lot. 



786 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Jackson. Certainly I think tlie record of the Soviet Union in 
regard to minorities in the Soviet Union should be proof to the mi- 
norities in this country that they have no interest in the minority 
groups. 

Mrs. Makkward. That is true. During the war they said the Negro 
people had decided to become assimilated ; then when they decided to 
go back to their more anti-American organization, they decided the 
Negro people ha^ e not decided yet, but possibly they should decide 
they want to set up a separate nation in the United States, to be 
separate from tlie United States of America. 

Mr. Jackson. In spite of the change or alleged change from the 
Communist Party to the Connnunist Political Association — one of 
those 90-degree rapid turns which leaves the enthusiastic supporter 
suspended in midair for a period of time — was there any substantial 
change from the ultimate goal of the Communist Party as delineated 
by Marx and Lenin? 

JVIrs. Markward. I never saw any. 

Mr. Jackson. What would you estimate I he membership in district 
4, the State of Maryland and the District of Columbia, to have been 
at its peak ? 

Mrs. Markward. In Washington the top active party membership 
was around ^30. At the end of a recruiting drive it was liigher, and 
at times it was lower. During 1949 it was about 210. I think a few 
of tliose people are perhaps not so active now. They are probably 
afraid to be members. But I don't see many willing to come forward 
and testify in favor of the United States. 

In IVIaryland the top figure was around 400. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you have any knowledge of the Maryland Com- 
mittee for Peace ? 

Mrs. ]\Iarkward. No. That has been since my association. 

Mr. Jackson. You were speaking of an alternate group of function- 
aries to take over in the event tliat the top leadership was sucUlenly 
taken from the party. In the light of the recent FBI round-up of the 
second echelon, is there basis for Ijelief that a third echelon has taken 
over the functions of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Markward. In the Communist Party, no matter how many are 
taken out of the party, there are always others prepared to take over. 
Every Communist is supposed to be able to rise to the occasion and 
take over leadership if necessary. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you believe from your experience that the Com- 
munist Party should be outlawed in its activities 'i 

Mrs. Markward. That is a debatable question. Due to the fact 
that it is so very underground now, I don't know that outlawing it 
would change the situation very much. 

Mr. Jackson. The argument has been advanced that to outlaw the 
party would drive it underground. 

Mrs. Markward. The IVlcCarran Act, which was to require them 
to register, I believe, had tiie same effect as outlawing the party. I 
am not completely acquainted with that act or with any of the others 
which are proposed. This is just a quick explanation. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you very much, Mrs. Markward. I would like 
to join with other members of the committee in expressing my thanks 
to you for the very splendid and the very valuable work you have 
performed on behalf of the country. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 787 

There is perhaps nothhig in the world that is more diflicult to do 
than to cut oneself off from friends and associates, and from the sort 
of life one has led theretofore, and I certainly believe that liot only 
this committee but 150 million Americans owe you a very ore-it debt 
of gratitude, and I congratulate you upon the very splendid work 
you have done. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter. 

Mr. Potter. Mrs. Markward, I have been interested in knowing 
the reaction by your friends and your relatives to you perscmally after 
you became involved and associated with the Conununist movement. 
What Avas their reaction to you as an individual? 

Mrs. Markward, Actually, it was pretty much according to what 
their reaction was to me before I took up the activity. If they liked 
me and had any regard for me, from what I could tell, most of them 
could not believe I Avas a Connnunist, and I never did try to influence 
any person outside of the persons I met within the Communist organ- 
ization. I was a A'ery good Comnumist Avith them, but did not try to 
influence people not already under the influence of the party. 

The people who didn't have much confidence in me anyway, I under- 
stand, have been denouncing me, but I never had anyone face me and 
say "You are a Comnumist" and try to do something about it. 

Mr. Potter. I Avould imagine it Avas quite trying on your husband, 
this association. I assume he kncAv of your association? 

Mrs. Markavard. He did, and I think he deserves perhaps more 
credit than I do. I at least Avas interested in what I Avas doing, and 
he was facing all the hardships of lack of association with friends, 
and the gossip, and so forth, and he certainly has been of great assist- 
ance to me. I am sure I could not have carried forward AAdiat I was 
doing if he had not cooperated with me in everything I did so 
well. 

Mr, Potter, You knoAv, in a field of battle, a person who performs 
heroic service is honored by his country by receiving medals of various 
kinds denoting honor, and I think that the service that you have per- 
formed for your country merits any award on the same basis and in 
the same rank as a man who performs heroic service on the battlefield. 
The committee and the country are greatly indebted to you for your 
service. 

Mrs. Markaa^ard. Thank you. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Counsel, do you have further questions at this 
time ? 

Mr. Taa'enner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Permit me to join Avith the other members of the com- 
mittee in expressing to you my very deep appreciation for your com- 
ing here and giving us this information. 

FolloAving the usual rule of this committee, I would like to make the 
announcement that there haA'e been some names mentioned in the 
course of this testimony of indiAdduals as being connected Avith the 
Communist Party or the Communist moA^ement, particularly in this 
area, and each and every one of them is invited to come befoi-e this 
committee and make such response thereto as he or she may desire. 

With our very sincere thanks to you, Mrs. Markward, you may be 
excused from further attendance on the committee unless you are 
later called to come back. 



788 COMAIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may I suggest she be released sub- 
ject to call, but not discharged. 

Mr. Wood. That is what I said. You are excused temporarily, 
until such time as you may be notified to come back, if that happens ; 
and, should you change your address, I would appreciate your keeping 
the staff informed. 

Mrs. Markward. I will, sir. 

[Applause from audience.] 

Mr, Wood. On account of the late hour, Mr. Counsel, I think we will 
not take another witness today, and the committee will stand at recess 
until 10 : 30 in the morning. 

(Thereupon, at 4 : 20 p. m. on Wednesday, July 11, 1951, an adjourn- 
ment was taken until 10 : 30 a. m. Thursday, July 12, 1951.) 



HEAKINGS RELATING TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN 
THE DEFENSE AREA OF BALTIMORE— PART 1 

(Based on Testimony of Mary Stalcnp Markward) 



TUESDAY, JUNE 19, 1951 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

ON Un-Amekioan Activities, 

Washington^ D. C . 

PUBLIC HEARING 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con- 
tinued the hearing on the above date, at 3 : 30 p. m., in room 220, Old 
House Office Buiklino;, Hon. John S, Wood (chairman) presiding.^ 

Committee members present: Representatives John S. Wood 
(chairman), Morgan ]VL Moulder, Clyde Doyle, James B. Frazier, 
Jr., and Charles E. Potter (appearance noted in record). 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel ; Donald T. Appell, investigator ; John 
W. Carrington, clerk ; and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. Whom do yon have, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Herbert Kransdorf . 

Mr. Wood. Will the witness stand and be sworn. Do you solemnly 
swear that the testimony you give this subcommittee shall be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I do. 

Mr. Braverman. Mr. Chairman, I notice there is not a quorum of 
the committee present. 

Mr. Wood. We are operating under a subcommittee. 

Mr. Braverman. We wish the record to show we are proceeding 
under protest due to the absence of a quorum. 

Mr. Kransdorf. Mr. Chairman, I have a statement I would like 
to read. 

Mr. Wood. You may file your statement with the committee. 

(The statement referred to was filed with the committee.) 

TESTIMONY OF HERBERT KRANSDORF, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, MAURICE BRAVERMAN 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. What is your name? 

Mr. Kransdorf. Herbert Kransdorf. 

]\Ir. Ta\t:nner. Are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I am. 



^ Testimony of the precedin? witness heard by the Committee on Un-American Activities 
on this day, Walter McManamon, is printed in another volume under same main title, pt. 3. 

789 



790 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE ' DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavknxer. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Braverman. Maurice Braverman, 119 West Mulberry Street, 
Baltimore, Md. I am a member of the Maryland bar. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kransdorf, when and where were you born? 

Mr. Kransdorf. New York City, N. Y., May 17, 1917. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you outline your educational background, 
please ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. High-school graduate. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee how you have been 
employed since that time ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you graduate from high school ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. Around the middle 19oO's. 

Mr. Tavenner. Around the middle 19o0's. 

Mr. Kransdorf. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live now ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. 648 West One Hundred and Sixtieth Street, New 
York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever live in Baltimore? 

]\Ir. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer on the ground it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean the fact you may have lived at one time 
in your life in Baltimore would likely subject you to criminal prose- 
cution ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you desire the committee to seriously consider 
your claim, will you state to the committee some reason or some basis 
for your contention that your association with the city of Baltimore 
might subject you to criminal prosecution, because it would be the com- 
mittee's function, I take it, to determine whether or not it would 
incriminate you. 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer the question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. However, I have the highest regard for 
the city of Baltimore and its institutions and people. I am also aware 
of my rights under the Constitution, particularly the fifth amend- 
ment, to refuse to answer questions which I feel may incriminate 
me. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in New York City ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been employed by the National Mari- 
time Union? 

]\Ir. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me, and I resent the intrusion of questions 
relating to my union activities. 

Mr. Wood. Just answer the questions asked you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you take part in a radio program on April 2, 
1947, over radio station WFBR in Baltimore, Md., in which you were 
interviewed by Mrs. Dorothy Rose Blumberg, educational director of 
the Communist Party of the city of Baltimore? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that it may tend to incriminate me. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 791 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Fninkfeld also on the same program? 

]\Ir. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you introduced in that radio program as city 
chairman of the Communist Party for Bahimore ? 

Mr. Kransdort. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me, and otlier questions along that line which 
I cannot answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kransdorf, I hand you a photostatic copy of a 
letter signed by Dorothy Rose Bluniberg, secretary-treasurer of the 
Communist Party of Maryland and the District of Columbia, dated 
February 25, 1946. 

The first paragraph of this letter, as you will note, refers to an en- 
larged session of the regular district committee meeting to be held 
]\Iarch 3, 1946. Did you attend the district committee meeting on 
March 3, 1946? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

(Representative Charles E. Potter entered hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kransdorf, according to information in the 
l^ossession of the committee, there was circulated in 1946 among cer- 
tain membei's of the Communist Party of the city of Baltimore a 
breakdown of the membership of the Communist Party for Baltimore 
City, giving the names of the various Communist Party cells and their 
membership, and the standing of the membership as to payment of 
dues as of March 1, 1946, which I desire to read into the record and 
use as the basis of further questioning. 

The figures that I will cite represent the registered membership as 
of March 1, 1946, of the following units or clubs or cells of the Commu- 
nist Party: 

Youth 20 

Tom Paiue 57 

Fred Douglas 24 

Lincoln 39 

Doiie Miller 31 

Dundalk 32 

Liberty 10 

Unity 39 

Foster 1.5 Total 434 

The committee is also in possession of information that at that time, 
March 1, 1946, you w^ere a functionary in the Communist Party in 
Baltimore. 

Will you examine that list and state whether or not it is, according 
to your recollection, a list that was circulated ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you identify the chairmen of the respective 
units or cells named in the circular? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me, and I certainly do not intend to allow 
myself to be a stool pigeon before this committee. 

Mr. Taa^nner. As you wnll note, the last item states there are 13 
unassigned individuals. What is meant by the term "unassigned"? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 



AFL 17 

Steel 22 

Ship 20 

Seaman 29 

Longshore 9 

White Collar 77 

Unassigned 13 



792 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at one time city chairman of the Com- 
munist Party for the city of Baltimore ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavexner. Are you presently employed in any manner by the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you presently employed ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. I am not sure I got your answer correctly. Do you mean 
to say you decline to answer a question as to what your present em- 
ployment is on the grounds it may tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. My answer was, I refuse to answer that question on 
the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. You understood the question was as to your present 
employment ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I understood the question perfectly. 

JNIr. Wood. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. Where did you reside in Baltimore in 1946 ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. What were were duties in connection with the National 
Maritime Union in Baltimore in 1946 ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you a married man ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I am. 

Mr. Doyle. What is your answer ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I am. 

Mr. Doyle. What is your wife's name ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. Jean. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you any children ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. Two. 

Mr. Doyle. What are their names and ages ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Are your children of school age? Do they go to 
school ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
might tend to incriminate me, and I wouldn't care to have my children 
or their names brought into this discussion here. I consider my family 
life is my own personal private property. 

Mr. Doyle. What organizations are you a member of, if any ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you a member of the Elks ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you a member of any church of any denomina- 
tion ; if so, what one ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 793 

INIr. Kransdorf, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it miglit tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle, Are you a member of any labor organization; if so, 
what one ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it miglit tend to incriminate me, particularly today when even mem- 
bership in a labor union becomes grounds for victimization. That has 
been the line of this committee. 

Mr. Wood. I would like you to confine your answers to the questions 
asked. The committee is not concerned with your opinions. It is con- 
cerned with the facts. 

Mr. D0YI.E. Do I understand from your answer with reference to 
Baltimore and where you resided there in 1946, that you believe giving 
the address where you resided in 1946 might tend to incriminate you? 

INIr. Kransdorf. That was my answer, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. How old are you? 

Mr. Kransdorf. Thirty-four. 

Mr. Doyle. Where were you born ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. New York City, N. Y. 

Mr. Doyle. Where? What address? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I don't remember the address now. It was some 
hospital. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you ever know it ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I might have known it some years ago. I don't 
know it now. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you employed at this time ? I am not asking you 
where. I am asking if you are employed. 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you ever been a member of any organized labor 
committee or group ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you ever been an officer in any organized labor 
group ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you ever attended night school of any sort since 
you finished your high-school course? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. You understand my question ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. Perfectly. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you attended any educational institution since 
you graduated from high school, by going to night classes? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Frazier. 

Mr. Frazier. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Frazier. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 



794 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to put in evidence the 
release referred to, and ask that it be marked "exhibit 1." 

Mr. AVooD. Let it be admitted. 

(The paper above referred to, marked "exhibit 1," is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter. 

Mr. Potter. Mr. Kransdorf, you seek the protection of the fifth 
amendment when asked the question : Are you a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? You realize, of course, that there is no necessity for 
seeking the protection of the fifth amendment if you are not a member 
of the Communist Party ; not only is there no necessity, but it would be 
illegal to utilize the fifth amendment if you are not a member, because 
there would be no self-incrimination. You are cognizant of that fact ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. What was that question again ? 

Mr. Potter. If you are not a member of the Communist Party, 
when asked the question, "Are you a member of the Communist Party," 
not only would there be no necessity of utilizing the fifth amendment, 
but it would be illegal to utilize the fifth amendment, because there 
would be no self-incrimination if jou were not a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Kransdorf. I am not at all sure of that point. It is rather in- 
volved. However, I am fully aware of my constitutional rights, and 
am well aware of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and am 
aware that whether or not I did admit membership, the committee here 
does not limit itself to any one group or organization or members of 
any one particular party, but seems to- 

Mr. Potter. Wlien we ask the question, "Are you a member of the 
Communist Party," it seems to me it is very limited. 

Mr. Kransdorf. I answered the best way I could. 

Mr. Potter. I wanted to be sure you w^ere fully aware of your an- 
swer. You claim you are a man 34 years of age. I assume that you 
were in the fight against nazism during the last war ? 

(The witness and his counsel conferred.) 

Mr. Potter. Do you care to answer my question? 

Mr. Braverman. Will you repeat the question? 

Mr. Potter. Were you in the fight against nazism during the last 
war? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I was. 

Mr. Potter. I assume you were in the service ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I was. 

Mr. Potter. If you were called today to fight communism in Korea, 
would you heed the call of your country and assume that responsibility 
that is yours ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that it may tend to incriminate me. However, I think my record in the 
past war against nazism more than indicates my loyalty to my country 
and its institutions. 

Mr. Potter. And you would fight as hard against communism as 
you fought against nazism in the last war ? 

Mr. Kransdorf. My answer is the same, that I refuse to answer 
that question on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me. I 
think the question is intended to get me to say something on a hypo- 
thetical question. 

Mr. Potter. If you were called to fight in Korea, would you go and 
fight the Communist forces in Korea ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 795 

Mr. Kransdorf. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
might tend to incriminate me, and I consider that my loyalty to my 
country and its people speaks for itself. 

Mr. Potter. I can't see that it speaks for itself if you wouldn't 
fight for our country in Korea. That loyalty is pretty flighty as far 
as I am concerned. 

Mr. Kransdorf. I stand by my previous answer. 

ISIr. Potter. No further questions. 

Mr. Wood, Any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

IVIr. Wood. Is there any reason why this witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. He may be excused. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Wood. Until 10 o'clock in the morning, the committee stands 
adjourned. 

(Thereupon, at 4: 05 p. m. on Tuesday, June 19, 1951, an adjourn- 
ment was taken until Wednesday, June 20, 1951, at 10 a. m.) 



HEARINriS KELATING TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES m 
THE DEFENSE AREA OF BALTIMOEE— PAET 1 

(Based on Testimony of Mary Stalcnp Markward) 



WEDNESDAY, JUNE 20, 1951 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee on 

Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. C. 
ruBLic hearing 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con- 
tinued tlie hearing on the above date at 3 p. m., in room 226, Old House 
Office Building, Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) presiding. ' 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man), Clyde Dojde, and Donald L. Jackson. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel; Donald T. Appell, investigator; 
John W. Carington, clerk; and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. Will you call the witness, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Mike Howard. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Howard, will you hold up your right hand and be 
sworn, please. Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this sub- 
connnittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Howard. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL HOWARD, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, MAURICE BRAVERMAN 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your full name, please ? 

Mr. Braverman. Mr. Chairman, I notice that there is not a quorum 
present. I wish to make an objection to the absence of a quorum. 

Mr. Wood. There is a quorum here. In fact, the whole subcommit- 
tee is here. We are operating under a subcommittee composed of 
Messrs. Doyle, Jackson, and myself. We are all here. 

Mr. Braverman. I would like to make an objection for the sake of 
the record and state that we are proceeding under protest due to the 
lack of a quorum of the full committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Howard, what is j^our full name ? 

^ Testimony of the preceding witnesses heard by the Committee on Un-Ameriean Activi- 
ties on this day, Irving Dvorin and Milton Unterman, is printed in another volume under 
same main title, pt. 3. 

797 



798 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Howard. Michael Howard. ' 

Mr. Tavenner. You are represented by counsel? 

Mr. Howard. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Braverman. I am Maurice Braverman, 119 West Mulberry 
Street, Baltimore 1, Md. I am a member of the Maryland bar. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Howard, when and where were you born? 

Mr. Howard. New York City, N. Y., February 12, 1915. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly your educational background, 
please-? 

Mr. Howard. I had about 2 years of college training. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you outline your employment record? 

Mr. Howard. I have been a steelworker the past 10 years, then I 
have had odd jobs covering about 3 more years of work in steel mills. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was your work performed in the steel mills 
during the past 10 years ? 

Mr. Howard. At the Bethlehem Steel Co. in Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where are you living now ? 

Mr. Howard. In Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are 3'ou engaged in work at the Bethlehem Steel 
Co. at this time ? 

Mr. Howard. Up until yesterday I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by that ? 

Mr. Howard. I don't know whether I have a job to go back to as a 
result of being called before this committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have not been notified of any discharge or any 
termination of your services? 

Mr. Howard. No ; I haven't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then so far as you know you are employed now at 
the Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? . . . 

Mr. Howard ,( after conferring with his counsel). That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. AYliat is the nature of j^our employment with the 
Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Howard. I am a second helper. 

Mr. Tavenner. Describe that a little more in detail. 

Mr. Howard. My job is to prepare the metalloids that go into the 
steel to meet the customer's analysis, to see that they are properly 
weighed, broken up into the appropriate size for proper melting, placed 
where they are in the proper places; to tap the furnace when the 
steel is ready; and to help put the metalloids and alloys into the ladle 
as the steel is going into the ladle; and other duties connected with 
that job. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you first become employed at Bethlehem 
Steel Co. in Baltimore? 

Mr. Howard. In July 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were" you living just prior to your employ- 
ment there ? Were you living in Baltimore ? 

Mr. Howard. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long had you lived in Baltimore prior to your 
employment ? 

Mr. Howard. Roughly, about 10 years. I don't know exactly off- 
hand. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed before 1942? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 799 

Mr. Howard. I had a number of jobs. I was a sign painter for a 
wliile. I was a steelworker in another phmt for a while. I was a 
shipyard worker for a while. Anything I could pick up to earn a 
living. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Howard, the committee is in possession of infor- 
mation that there existed at the Bethlehem Steel Corp. a cell or 
club of the Comnuinist Party. Do you know whether such a cell does 
exist at the Bethlehem Steel Corp., or did exist? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that it 
mi gilt tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Are you acquainted with Mr. Frank Pinter, em- 
ployed at Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time served on the State or city 
committee of the Conniuniist Party from Baltimore? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Mr. Frank Pinter has at 
anv time served on the State or city committee of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do vou know Mr. Pliil Gran, G-r-a-n, employed by 
the Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Hoavard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know if Mr. Gran at any time served on 
the State or city committee of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Hoavard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Taaenner. Are you acquainted with Levy Williamson, em- 
ployed by Betldeliem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do yon know if he served at any time on the State 
or city committee of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Aaron Ostrofsky, 
0-s-t-r-o-f-s-k-y? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that it 
miglit tend to incriminate me. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Do you know wliether or not lie is employed at the 
Bethlehem Steel Corp. plant? 

yh-. Howard. Wlio is that? 

JMr. Tavenner. Aaron Ostrofsky. Do you know whethei" or not 
Aai'on Ostrofsky is enq^loyed by tlie Bethelehem Steel Corp.? 

Mr. Howard (after conferring with his counsel). T refuse to an- 
swer that question on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. Do I understand you to say that to tell whether or not 
you know that such and such a person is em])]oye(l by Bethlehem 
Steel is a matter of possible self-incrimination; that it would subject 

86629— 51— pt. 1 — 5 



800 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

you to criminal charges if you admitted that you know that this man 
is employed by Bethlehem Steel ? Is that your contention ? 

Mr. Howard. I am sorry. This photographer is distracting me. 
Mr. Wood. By the way, do you object to being photographed? 
Mr. Howard. No. I am trying to see Mr. Jackson and the photog- 
rapher is in the way. 

Mr. Braverman. Now would you repeat the question ? 
Mr. Jackson. Yes. You have pleaded possible self-incriminatio . 
in refusing to answer a question as to whether you know that a certain 
person works for Bethlehem Steel. 
Mr. Howard. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. Is it your contention that you would subject your- 
self to possible criminal prosecution if you admitted that you know 
that a person works for Bethlehem Steel ? 

Mr. Ho^vard. I am making no contention. I am acting on advice 
of counsel. 

Mr. Jackson. On what grounds do you refuse to answer ? 
Mr. Howard. On the grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Jackson. It might tend to incriminate you on a criminal 
charge if you admit j'ou know this individual is an employee of 
Bethlehem Steel ? _ ^ 

Mr. Howard. You are putting words in my mouth. 
Mr. Jackson. No, I am not. What are the grounds? 
Mr. Howard. I am simply acting on counsel's advice, which I have 
confidence in. What I am subject to, I don't know. 

Mr. Wood. When you say you are claiming protection under the 
first and fifth amendments of the Constitution, on the grounds your 
answer would subject you to self-incrimination, are you basing that 
on advice you got from counsel, or on your own opinion? 
(Witness proceeds to confer with his counsel.) 
Mr. Wood. I would like to have your answer to that. 
Mr. Howard. May I confer with counsel? I have had a number 
of conferences with counsel. 

Mr. Wood. You have a riglit to confer with him, but I would 
appreciate very much having that information from you rather than 
from your counsel, because your counsel has been before this com- 
mittee too, and was given the same privilege. 

Mr. Howard. Counsel is representing me, and I insist upon my 
riglit to confer with him. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Wood. Is it your opinion that j^ou would be subjected to self- 
incrimination if you answered the question that has been asked you? 
Mr. Howard. Yes, sir. 
Mr. Wood. Or is it your counsel's advice ? 

Mr. Howard. When the nature of the question asked is not quite 
clear to me, I seek counsel's advice. 
Mr. Wood. Then it is your own view ? 
Mr. Howard. My own view. 
Mr. Wood. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Howard, are you required to sign a non-Com- 
munist affidavit in connection with membership in your union ? 
Mr. Howard. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Mr. Aaron Ostrofsky has 
signed a non-Communist a^ffidavit with the Steelworkers' local? 



COMJMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 801 

Mr. Howard. That would be beyond my knowledge. , 

Mr Tavenner. It is the committee's information that he has signed 
such an affidavit. Do you know anything of the circumstances under 
which he signed the affidavit? 

Mr. Howard. No, sir ; not a thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not Air. Ostrotsky re- 
Ri (Tiled from the Communist Partv before signing the affidavit? 

'^If. Howard (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to an- 
swer that question on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not he was advised by 
the Communist Party or members of the Communist Party regard- 
ing the signing of the non-Communist affidavit ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. , , . . 

Mr. Ta\t2nner. What is your local union, that is, the local union 

to which you belong ?  * • 

Mr. Howard. Local 2610, United Steelworkers of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. 2610. Is that the same local as that to which Mr. 
Aaron Ostrofsky belongs? 

Mr. Howard. I don't know. 

Mr. Ta^tsnner. What is the number of your local ? 

Mr. Howard. 2610. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many locals of the Steelworkers' union are in 
that plant, do you know ? ' 

Mr. Howard. Yes. There are two locals in the plant, plus a rail- 
road local, all of which are affiliated. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. But there are only two Steelworkers' locals? 

Mr. Howard. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Do you know the number of the other one ? 

Mr. Howard. Yes, sir; 2609. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Do you know which of the locals Mr. Aaron Os- 
trofsky is a member of ? 

Mr. Howard (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to an- 
swer that question on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate 
me. 

Mr. Taatsnner. You are not an officer in your local union, are you? 

Air. Howard. No ; I am not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what the bylaws and the constitu- 
tion of your local provide as to the signing of a non-Communist affi- 
davit on the part of officers of your local ? 

Mr. Howard. No. I haven't seen a copy of the latest bylaws. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the provision with regard to the non- 
Communist affidavit in the last copy of the bylaws and constitution 
which you did see ? 

Mr. Howard. The last copy I saw had nothing in it about non- 
Communist affidavits. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is Joe Henderson employed by Bethlehem Steel 
Corp. ? 

j\Ir. Howard. I refuse to answer on the grounds that it might tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Were you acquainted with John Goodell while he 
was employed by the Bethlehem Steel Corp ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer on the same grounds mentioned 

^viously. 



802 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 



» 



Mr. Tavenner. Is Robert W. Lee, formerly an organizer for the 
Food, Tobacco, and Agricultural Workers, presently employed by 
Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Howard (after conferring with his counsel). I must refuse 
to answer that question on the grounds that it might tend to incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. Wood. It isn't what you must do, because you are under no 
compulsion here. What do you do? Do you decline to answer? 

Mr. Howard. I do, sir. 

Mr. Wood. I want to modify that statement. You are under no 
compulsion here. I accept the compulsion of your oath. 

Mr. Howard. I understand that. 

Mr. W^ooD. And under that you decline to answer ? 

Mr. Howard. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Howard, I noticed when counsel asked you that 
question you then conferred with your counsel, which, of course, is 
your privilege, and you didn't answer the question until after you 
conferred with your counsel, which you always have the privilege of 
doing. I take it from that, that your answer was as a result of your 
conference with your counsel; or was it your own independent 
opinion ? 

Mr. Braverman. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if I may 

Mr. Doyle. Are you relying on legal advice, or what is the basis 
of your opinion? 

Mr. Braverman. May I object? 

Mr. Wood. Let the witness answer. 

Mr. Doyle. Of course you have the right to legal counsel also. 
• I noticed you did not answer that question until you first had consulted 
with counsel. 

Now I am asking you, is your answer that you just gave the result 
of your conference with counsel, which you have a right to have, or 
is it your own independent opinion that you might incriminate your-, 
self by saying whether or not this particular man asked about is an 
employee of Bethlehem Steel? 

Mr.' Howard. There is an inference in your question, Mr. Doyle, 
that has me stopped. Whatever answer I give is my own independent 
judgment. I may seek counsel's advice from time to time; however, 
I don't want the committee here to get the impression tliat counsel 
is telling me what to say, but I seek counsel's advice from time to time 
when I am in doubt as to the nature of the question or the way to 
formulate my reply. That is all I am giving you here, my own nide- 
pendent judgment. " 

Mr. Doyle. This man about whom our counsel has asked you, is he 
- to your knowledge a man of bad reputation or ill repute so that you 
. are afraid to identify him as a person you know, or to identify him 
as to where he works? If that is your own independent answer, you 
can just state it. In what way would your statement as to whether 
or not you know if this man about whom our counsel has asked you 
is working at Bethlehem Steel involve you in possible self-incrimi- 
nation? . 

Mr. Howard. I disagree with you, sir. I think it will, or it might. 
Mr. Doyle. I am not urging you to waive your right. 
Mr. Howard. I understand exactly how you put the question, and 
perhaps under happier circumstances I might have some other reph 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 803 

but in this particular case I can't see any other answer to make and 
still protect my own interests. 

Mr. Doyle. All right. Thank you. 

Mr. Taa-enner. Are you acquainted with Mike Clifford ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Are you acquainted with Pete Forrest ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds 
previously stated. 

M)-. Taaenner. Do you know whether or not Sam Gordon was a 
member of the State or city committee of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mv. Tamsnner. Was Irving Winkler employed by Bethlehem Steel 
Corp. and by Rustless Steel Corp. ? 

j\Ir. Howard (after conferring with his counsel) . I refuse to answer 
the question on the grounds that my answer may tend to incriminate 
me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is Howard Bernard Silverberg, S-i-1-v-e-r-b-e-r-g, 
employed by Bethlehem Steel ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Do you know whether Mr. Howard Bernard Silver- 
berg has been active as a functionary of the Baltimore County Com- 
mittee for Peace? 

Mr. Howard (after conferring with his counsel) . I refuse to answer, 
the question on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me, 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you associated in any way with the Baltimore- 
County Committee for Peace ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
my answer miglit tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. How would it tend to incriminate you to be asso- 
ciated with or affiliated with the Baltimore County Committee for 
Peace? What is the basis for your statement? The committee is 
entitled to know the general nature of your claim if you are to be per- 
mitted to claim the fifth amendment as grounds for your refusal to 
answer. 

Mr. Howard. Well, I refuse to answer your second question on the 
grounds that it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been connected in any way with the Mary- 
land Committee for Peace ? 

Mr. Howard (after conferring with his counsel) . I refuse to answer 
that question on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. What part has the Communist Party or members 
of the Conmiunist Party played in the creation and in the work of 
either of these organizations, that is, the Baltimore County Commit- 
tee for Peace or the Maryland Committee for Peace, if any? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have asked you about the names of a number 
of persons employed in Bethlehem Steel Corp. Do you know the 
name of the president of Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Howard. The president of the corporation ? 



804 coMMxnsrisT activities est Baltimore defense area 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Who is the president of Bethlehem Steel 
Corp. ? 

Mr. Howard. You have got me. It used to be Mr. Grace, but he 
has stepped down, and I don't know the name of the president now. 

Mr. Jackson. What was the name ? 

Mr. Howard. Eugene Grace. He stepped down last year. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you know Mr. Grace ? 

Mr. Howard. I never had the pleasure of meeting him. 

Mr. Jackson. Tliere is no self-incrimination in knowing Mr. Grace? 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the name of your superior at the plant? 
You said you were second helper ? 

Mr. Howard. Second helper ; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who is the first helper? 

Mr. Howard. I think you are under a misapprehension. 

Mr. Tavenner. That may be, because I know nothing about the 
organization of the work there. Who is your supervisor, your supe- 
rior ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Wood. Let's get along. 

Mr. Howard. Too long? 

Mr. Wood. No. Let's get along. You were simply asked who your 
supervisor is. 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer on the grounds that it might tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. You think that might be doing him an injustice? 

Mr. Howard. Yes, sir. I am not offering that as a justification for 
my refusal, but I certainly think it might be doing him an injustice. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you have a paymaster at Bethlehem Steel, or a pay 
office, where you get your pay ? Who is the head of that department, 
do you know ? Who is your paymaster ? 

Mr. Howard. I wouldn't know, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Who is the superintendent of the entire plant, do you 
know ? 

Mr. Howard. We have a plant manager. 

Mr. Doyle. Who is the plant manager ? 

Mr. Howard. Mr. Clark. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you know his first name ? 

Mr. HoAVARD. No ; I don't. 

Mr. Doyle. Why don't you claim the privilege of self-incrimination 
in giving his name? He is employed by the same company by which 
you are employed. Wouldn't it incriminate you just as much, in your 
own mind, to give his name as an employee of the company as to give 
the name of your own supervisor? 

Mr. Howard. I am sorry to go over this point again and again. I 
see your reasons for asking the question, but I must insist that mjr rea- 
sons for refusing to answer on the grounds that I might incriminate 
myself are reasons which seem sufficient to me. 

Mr. Doyle. Of course you are entitled to have those reasons, but 
I am trying, as one man to another, to understand why in this instance 
you are not claiming the privilege of the Constitution and are giving 
the name of INIr. Clark, but you claimed the privilege when we asked 
the name of your supervisor. They are both employed by the com- 
pany. 



COlMMUlSriST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 805 

INIr. Howard. I ask your indulgence. There is a difference in my 
mind. 

Mr. Jackson. I don't think we should leave the supervisor in a 
state of suspended animation. I respectfully suggest that j^terhaps 
you are doing him more damage than not by refusing to give us his 
name. 

Mr. Howard. I didn't refuse to answer in order to shield my fore- 
man. I refused to answer on the ground that my answer might tend 
to incriminate me. However, I thought there was another question 
directed to me as to whether I thought it might be an injustice to him, 
and I thought it might be. But my refusal to answer had nothing to 
do with shielding or protecting my foreman. 

Mr. Jackson. I say you are perhaps doing an injustice to your 
supervisor, inadvertently, by leaving this suggestion that any con- 
nection between the two of you would have the effect of incriminating 
him. 

Let me put another question : Is your supervisor, to the best of your 
knowledge, a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

INIr. Jackson. I can certainly see where it could tend to incriminate 
the supervisor, but I can't see how it would tend to incriminate you. I 
have no further question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Sam Fox, formerly as- 
sistant business agent of local 43 of the shipworkers, and later an 
organizer for the United Furniture Workers ? 

Mt. Howard. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Isidore Schwartz serve at any time on the State 
or city committee of the Communist Party in Baltimore? 

]\Ir. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

INIr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Max Weinstock, an or- 
ganizer for the Furniture Workers ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Kuth Bleier, B-1-e-i-e-r, 
head of the Maryland Committee for Peace ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Thelma Gerende, 
G-e-r-e-n-d-e? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Louis Shub, S-h-u-b ? 
Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Gunther Wertheimer? 
^Ir. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Alfred MacPherson serve at any time on the 
city or State committee of the Communist Party ? 
Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 



806 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Steve Sebo, S-e-b-o, employed by Bethleliem 
Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he served at any time on the 
State or city committee of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Selma Weiss ^ serve on the State or city com- 
mittee of the Communist Party at any time? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mrs. Alverta Parnell ^ ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did_ she serve at any time on the State or city com- 
mittee of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Howard, I show you a photostat of a letter 
dated February 25, 1946, signed by Dorothy Rose Blumberg, secre- 
tary-treasurer of the Communist Party of Maryland and the District 
of Columbia. You will notice from the first paragraph of Mrs. Blum- 
berg's letter that the Communist Party was to hold an enlarged session 
of the regular district committee meeting on March 3, 1946. I would 
like to ask you if you received a copy of that letter ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend the March 3, 1946, rally of the 
Communist Party ? . 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information that 
at a May Day rally on May 1, 1946, at 1029 East Baltimore Street, 
that you were present and engaged in the rally. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that it 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that you worked in various jobs and 
positions. Did you ever work for the United States Government ? 

Mr. Howard. No, sir. 
. Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. DoTLE. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Howard, at the beginning of your testimony, when 
you were asked what your present employment was, you expressed 
some misgiving as to whether you were still employed. I have been 
a little curious as to whether that misgiving you indicated is predicated 
on the fact you were subpenaed by this committee, or the testimony 
you give before this committee? Is it your thought that this com- 



^ See footnote, p. — . 
'See footnote, p. - — . 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 807 

mittee is complete anathema to the officials of Bethlehem Steel, so that 
a man snbpenaed before the committee jeopardizes his job, or is it the 
nature of your testimony which gave you the misgiving? 

Mr. Howard. Heading the first release to the press on either Mon- 
day or Tuesday morning, it was a clear invitation for employers to 
fire employees who were labeled as Communists by this committee; 
with the additional remark in this release that this committee was 
going to stand on its legal immunity in connection with those charges, 
which I interpreted as a clear invitation to employers to fire anyone 
appearing before this co;nmittee and answering in such a way as not 
to please this committee, without any evidence as to that person's 
identification. 

Mr. Wood. For your information, I will state to you that the only 
release this committee has made was made by the chairman concerning 
these hearings, and that was that we were going to conduct investiga- 
tions into Communist infiltration into areas in the vicinity of Balti- 
more. That was all that there was in the release. It was a very brief 
release. 

Obviously, we can't conduct an investigation without subpenaing 
witnesses. Is it your thought that any witness subpenaed should 
come here with the assumption he would be discharged by his em- 
ployer ? 

Mr. Howard. I am not assuming anything. My emploj^er might 
act in accordance with the obvious inference in the i^ress release I 
read in the Baltimore Sun. 

Mr. Wood. Do you think your employer would be more interested in 
the release, or in the testimony you give here, or refuse to give ? Which 
would be the more impressive^ 

Mr. Howard. I should think my 10 years of service would be the 
thing on which he would make the decision. 

Mr. Wood. Assuming your employers are loyal American citizens 
and do not believe in the philosophy of communism in government, 
don't you believe they would be more interested in what a man said 
or refused to say under oath as a witness than in what a press release 
said? 

Mr. Howard (after conferring with his counsel). Mr. Wood, I 
really am totally ignorant of what my employers' reactions will be or 
what they will base their decision on. I hope for the best. I hope I 
do have a job when I get back. 

]Mr. Wood. That is not responsive to the question I asked j^ou. The 
question I asked you was, proceeding upon the hypothesis that your 
employers are loyal American citizens and do not believe in the phil- 
osophy of communism as an agency in government, proceeding on this 
hypothesis, don't you believe they would be more interested in what 
a witness said or refused to say under oath before this connnittee than 
in what a press release said ? 

Mr. Howard. I understand your question and I still say I don't 
know. 

Mr. Wood. I hope you will at least do this committee the fairness to 
refrain from leaving an inference, as you have sought to do here, that 
you have been badgered into making statements tliat you preferred 
not to make, because you have been shown every courtesy. 

Mr. Howard. I certainly haven't been badgered into making any 
statements I didn't want to make. 



808 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Wood. I know of no more courteous way in which a man could 
be questioned than the way in which counsel for this committee has 
questioned you. 

Mr. Howard. I concur in that. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions? 

Mr. Jackson. Upon the appearance of these press releases to which 
you took exception, did you deny in any way to the press or to this 
committee any inference that might be left from those press releases? 
Did you take occasion to deny them in any way ? 

Mr. Howard. There was no occasion to deny any inference I may 
have had from the press release. 

Mr. Jackson. You took no action ? 

Mr. Howard. No. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you have any reason to believe there is an inter- 
national Communist organization or conspiracy, as some prefer to 
call it ? Do your own thoughts and logic lead you to any conclusion 
in that regard ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Wood. Is there any comment you desire to make in connection 
with the question that has just been asked ? 

Mr. Howard. I feel that the question is asking me for a personal 
opinion which is not subject to inquiry by this committee. However, 
I am willing to stand on my right to refuse to answer that question 
on the ground it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. You do refuse to answer ? 

Mr. Howard. I do. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you have any reason to believe there is an organ- 
ized Communist movement in this country ? 

Mr. Howard. I must refuse to answer that question. I do refuse to 
answer that question on the grounds it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you know of any organized Communist cell or 
apparatus within the Bethlehem Steel plant? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you consider an individual Communist to be an 
agent of a foreign conspiracy, or a loyal American citizen? 

Mr. Howard. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you believe a Communist should be permitted to 
have employment in a United States defense plant working on prime 
or subcontracts? 

Mr. Howard. Mr. Jackson, aren't you invading a very personal lib- 
erty of mine ? 

Mr. Jackson. If you don't wish to answer, so state. 

Mr. Howard. I have tried to answer every question to the best 
of my ability. I do feel this is an invasion of my personal liberty 
to think my own thoughts. 

Mr. Jackson. The end goal of this committee is to seek such infor- 
mation, opinion, and otherwise, as to enable it to intelligently legislate 
against subversive activities. So opinions are very important, opin- 
ions of people who are in position to make an evaluation of com- 
munism. Therefore I think that an opinion on your part, if you care 
to give it, is extremely important. If you don't wish to give it, you 
have 3^our constitutional right. 



CORIIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 809 

Mr. Howard. If I don't care to give my opinion? 

Mr. Jackson. That is perfectly all right. 

Mr. Howard. I don't think this is the time or place to discuss this 
thing. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you bear arms for this country in the Korean 
action now under way if you were inducted into service ? 

Mr. Howard. Certainly. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you report sabotage on the part of any person 

in the Bethlehem Steel plant who came under your sight, to the FBI, 

•United States marshal, or other responsible official within the plant? 

Mr. Howard. I certainly would do everything in my power to pre- 
vent sabotage and to turn such a person over to proper authorities. 

Mr. Jackson. You would immediately turn over to proper author- 
ities any person you saw doing any unlawful act ? 

Mr. Howard. What do you mean by unlawful act ? 

Mr. Jackson. Any act intended to wreck machinery or unlawfully 
slow down production. 

Mr. Howard. I wish you would keep it to sabotage. There is a lot 
of horseplay which is not deliberate sabotage. 

Mr. Jackson. I am speaking of sabotage. 

Mr. Howard, My answer to that is "Yes." 

Mr. Jackson. Any indication of sabotage you would report imme- 
diately ? 

Mr. Howard. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. If you were called to bear arms, would you bear arms 
in good faith for your country ? 

Mr. Howard. If I were called upon I would act as any ordinary- 
citizen. 

Mr. Wood. Would you in good faith bear arms for your country ? 

Mr. Howard. I would. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will stand at recess until 11 o'clock to- 
morrow morning. 

(Thereupon, at 4 : 10 p. m. on Wednesday, June 20, 1951, a recess 
was taken until Thursday, June 21, 1951, at 11 a. m.) 



HEAKINGS KELATING TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN 
THE DEFENSE AREA OF BALTIMORE— PART 1 

(Based on Testimony of Mary Stalciip Markward) 



THURSDAY, JUNE 21, 1951 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. G. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to recess, 
at 11 a. m., in room 226, Old House Office Building, Hon. John S. 
Wood (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man), Francis E. Walter, Clyde Doyle (appearance as noted in tran- 
script), James B. Frazier, Jr. (appearance as noted in transcript), 
Bernard W. Kearney (appearance as noted in transcript), Donald L. 
Jackson, and Charles E. Potter. 

Staff members present : P^rank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel ; Donald T. Appell, investigator; John 
W. Carrington, clerk, and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. Tlie committee will be in order, please. 

For the purposes of this hearing let the record disclose that I have 
set up a subcommittee composed of Messrs. Walter, Jackson, Potter, 
and Wood, who are all present. 

Before calling the first witness I would like to make a little an- 
nouncement. 

The staif of this committee has been in contact with Gen. Charles A. 
Willoughby over a period of more than a year relating to the activities 
of American citizens in connection with Communist activities in the 
Far East, with particular emphasis upon their association with 
Richard Sorge. 

On April 28, 1951, a subpena was issued upon him for his appear- 
ance as a witness to appear before this committee on these subjects and 
for the production of certain records before the committee. 

General Willoughby agreed to appear and accepted service of the 
subpena. 

Following this, General Willoughby advised the committee that he 
would like to spend some time at this home in New York before 
appearing in response to the subpena. 

The committee agreed to this. However, I was advised this morn- 
ing that General Willoughby has been served with a sub])ena by a 
Senate committee, and I am, therefore, setting the date for General 
Willoughby's appearance before this committee as June 28, 1951. 

811 



812 COMAIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Who is the first witness this morning, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. INIr. Joseph Henderson. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Henderson, will you stand, raise your right hand, 
and be sworn, please ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you give this committee 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ^ 

Mr. Henderson. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. 

Mr. BucHMAN. First I would like to enter a protest as to the ab- 
sence of a quorum of the committee, sir. I note that for the record. 

Mr. Wood. The full subcommittee is present. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH P. HENDERSON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, HAROLD BUCHMAN 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please ? 

Mr. Henderson. Joseph P. Henderson. 

JNIr. Tavenner. You are represented by counsel, I assume ? 

Mr. Henderson. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel identify himself for the record, please? 

Mr. Buchman. Harold Buchman, 213 Tower Building, Baltimore, 
Md. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Mr. Henderson, when and where were you born ? 

]Mr. Henderson. Halifax County, Va., July 26, 1912. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational background? 

Mr. Henderson. Eighth grade. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere do you now live ? 

Mr. Henderson. 725 North Avondale Koad, Baltimore County, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Baltimore County ? 

Mr. Henderson. It will he 6 years in July — sometime in July 1945. 

(Representative Bernard W. Kearney entered hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to July 1945, where did you reside? 

Mr. Henderson. In Washington. 

Mr. Tavenner. In Washington ? 

Mr. Henderson. D. C. 

Mr. Wood. Let the record show the presence of Mr. Kearney. 

Mr. Ta\t5nner. How long did you live in Washington ? 

Mr. Henderson (after conferring with his counsel). Approximate- 
ly 4 or 41/2 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, how were you employed when you were a 
resident of Washington ? 

Mr. Henderson (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to 
answer that question on the ground that the answer I give may tend to 
incriminate me. 

]\Ir. Wood. Will you speak a little louder so we can hear you up 
here ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, when did you move to Baltimore? 

Mr. Henderson. In July of 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. What employment did you have in Baltimore at 
that time, at tlie time you moved there? 

Mr. Henderson (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to 
answer that question on the ground that any answer I give may tend to 
incriminate me. 



COMMUNIST ACTWITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 813 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now, or have you ever been a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Were you at any time a member of the State com- 
mittee of the Communist Party, which is the governing body of 
district No. 4, encompassing Maryland and the District of Cohimbia? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you hold membership in or do you have a policy 
with the International AVorkers' Order? 

Mr. Henderson (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to 
answer that question on the grounds that any answer I give may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information indi- 
cating that you attended a meeting of the Communist Party at Com- 
munist Party headquarters, 201 West Franklin Street, Baltimore, 
where plans were discussed regarding the operation of the bookshop 
and also plans were discussed for the May Day rally wdiich was to be 
held on May 1, 1946. 

This meeting is alleged to have occurred on April 22, 1946. Were 
you present at such a meeting? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grourfds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state whether or not any of the following- 
named j^ersons, to your knowledge, were present on April 22, 1946, 
at the Comnmnist Party headquarters, 201 West Franklin Street, 
Baltimore? That is in the year 1946, April 22. 

Bill Taylor? 1 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Phil Frankfeld? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Belva Dean? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
gi-ounds as given before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Doroth}^ Eose Blumberg? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Connie Jackson? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Kay Burton? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Bernie Burton? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Jean Kransdorf ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before. 



* In 1946, BiU Taylor resided in Wasliington, D. C. 



814 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Margaret McCadden? 

Mr. Henderson". I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Whit^ Goodfriend? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on* the same 
grounds as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time present at a meeting of the 
Communist Party at which there was a discussion of the action that 
shoukl be taken regarding the disbanding of Steel Ckibs of the Com- 
munist Party which inchided the employees at Bethlehem Steel and 
Ship Clubs in the Bethlehem Shipyards and the splitting of this 
membership into clubs known at Lincoln Club, the Highlandtown 
Club, and the Liberty Club ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 

(Eepresentatives Clyde Doyle and James B. Frazier, Jr., entered 
hearing room.) 

Mv. Tavenner. I show you a photostatic copy of a letter signed 
by Dorothy Rose Blumberg, secretary-treasurer of the Communist 
Party of Maryland and the District of Columbia, dated February 25, 
1940. The first paragraph of this letter refers to an enlarged section 
of the regular district committee meeting to be held on May 3, 1946. 

Will you examine the letter and state whether or not you received 
a copy of it ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask you whether or not, to your 
knowledge, any of the following named persons attended the meet- 
ing of ]\Iarch 3, 1946. which was called by this letter of February 25, 
signed by Dorothy Rose Blumberg, secretary-treasurer of the Com- 
munist Party of Maryland and the District of Columbia. 

Albert Blumberg? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dorothy Blumberg? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to' answer that question on the same 
grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Connie Jackson? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Maurice Braverman? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
as previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tom Conner? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Pete Forrest ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Lew Gilbert? 

Mv. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as previously stated. 

INIr. Tavenner. Sam Gordon ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 815 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavexner. Phil Gran? 

]Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Herbert Hall ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before. 

]Mr. Tavenner. A. McPherson ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give might tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. TA^'ENNER. Milton Newman { 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Bill Taylor? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I may give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Incident ally, was Bill Taylor present at the meeting 
of April 22, 19^6, which was held at 201 West Franklin Street, 
Baltimore? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Boyd Coleman ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Whitey Goodf riend ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. and Mrs. Parnell? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. TA\Ti:NNER. Andy Moreland ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground 
as previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Jimmy Branca ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

]\lr. Tam<:nner. Do you know where Jimmy Branca lived, whether 
it was in Washington or Baltimore ? 

Mr. Henderson (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to 
answer that question on the ground that any answer I might give 
iniglit tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Gus Alexiou ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Elizabeth Searle ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. Tavexner. Virginia Gardner? 

Mr. Hex'derson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
as stated before. 

jSIr. Tavenxer. Bill Johnson ? 

86629— 51— pt. 1 6 



816 COMIVIUNIST ACTR^TIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer T might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mike Howard ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. GLadys Whittaker ? 

Mr. Hendrson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as stated previously. 

Mr. Tavenner. Minnie Stambler ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
as previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Henry Fink? 

]\Ir. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might make might tend to incriminate me. 

INIr. Tavenner. John Horsey? 

Mr. Henderson. 1 refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
as stated before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Bob Meyers ? 

Mr. Henderson. I i-efuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr, Tavenner. Jean Coppack ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. ElvaLannon? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not Elva Lannon is the 
wife of Al Lannon? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tom Keenan ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Martin Dean ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. and Mrs. Frank Pinter ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Jorge Seigal? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds' as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Alice Milborne? 

INIr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as given before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Claire Newman? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Carrie Saunders ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Joe Shill? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 817 

Mr. Tavenner. Jake and Rena Kline? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give miglit tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Gra}' son Ponder ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Robert Brenner? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Hy Gordon? 

Mr. Henderson. 1 refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Ray Barshak? ^ 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might oive might tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Mary Miller? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as previously stated. 
Mr. Tavenner. Julia Samuels? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before. 

Mr, Tavenner. Jay Green? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer tKat question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Taat2Nner. Thelma Gerende? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Sally Winkler? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Eleanor Jaffee? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give might tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Mildred Matchar ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mary Roberts ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Aaron Ostrovsky? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Herbert Kay ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Herbert Kay also uses the 
name Kransdorf ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give might tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Herbert Kransdorf ? 
Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Saul Levine? 



818 COMMUNIST. ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Virginia Smith ? 

Mr, Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Anthony Vega 'i 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Lil Levine ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dorothy Salamini? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give migiit tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. C. Isaacs ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what the initial "C" stands for in 
the name JNIrs. C. Isaacs ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked a question regarding the meeting on April 
22, 1946, of the Communist Party at the Comnmnist Party headquar- 
ters at 201 West Franklin Street, and whether or not there was dis- 
cussed at that meeting the holding of a May Day rally on May 1, 
1946. 

Did you attend the May Day rally on May 1, 1946 ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. The Daily Worker of May 25, 1947, at page 9, sets 
forth an article which identifies 550 union officials who were assailing 
Red hunts. 

Signing this petition, which was released by the Civil Rights Con- 
gress, is Joseph Henderson, international representative, Baltimore, 
of the International Longshoremen's Workers' Union. 

Were you an international rei^resentative of the International Long- 
shoremen's Workers' Union in May 1947? 

Mr. Henderson (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to 
answer that question on the grounds that any answer I might give 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. What unions were you a member of in 1947 ? 

Mr. Henderson (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to 
answer tliat question on the grounds that any answer I might give 
might tend to incriminate me. 

However, I resent bringing the unions into this. In my opinion, it 
seems to be trying to attack the unions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I have not indicated that membership in the 
Longshoremen's Union of itself is anytliing to be criticized for, but it 
is your answer that leaves that inference. 

I am asking you if you were at any time a member of the Interna- 
tional Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union ? 

INIr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. May I ask a question ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 819 

Does the witness mean that askinji; if he was ever a member of a 
certain union is an attack upon the union ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer tliat question on the same 
grounds as before. 

Mr. Potter. Tlie question of where you were born certainly wouldn't 
be an attack upon your mother, would it? So tliis question of whether 
you belonoed to a union certainly is not an attack upon you. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. I might say further that our idea and purpose is to 
expose communism, whether it be in the union, whether it be in the 
Government, or where it is. That is the work of this committee, and it 
is done for the purpose of helping the unions, not for the purpose of 
injuring them or damaging them. 

I will refer you again to the letter of Dorothy Rose Blumberg of 
February 25, 1946, which is in point on this very question which you 
have raised. The next to the last paragraph reads as follows : 

Since our party's participation in the strike movements in Maryland and our 
direct assistance to tbe strikers, our comrades have found a wonderful new 
opportunity for meeting and recruiting workers into the party. Now is the time 
to take advantage of this opportunity and build the party of Maryland and 
the District of Columbia into a strong representative fighting organization. 

Now, are you acquainted with the work of the Communist Party in 
any labor union that you were a member of ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you attempted to recruit workers into the 
Communist Party in the labor union of which you were a member ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner, When you were speaking a moment ago of inter- 
ference with the labor unions, you meant interference with Commu- 
nist activities in labor unions. That is what you presented that this 
committee was doing, didn't you ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer in evidence the photostatic copy 
of the letter of Dorothy Rose Blumberg, and I ask that it be marked 
"Henderson Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. It may be admitted. 

(The photostatic copy of letter of Dorothy Rose Blumberg, dated 
February 25, 1946, was marked "Henderson Exhibit No. 1," and re- 
ceived in evidence.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere are you employed now ? 

Mr. BucHMAN. He would like to see the letter. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes; it is the same letter that I presented to you 
to examine a few minutes ago. 

How are you employed now, Mr. Henderson ? 

Mr. BucHMAN. Will you read the question back, please? 

(The pending question, as above recorded, was read by the reporter, 
whereupon the witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Aren't you employed at the Bethlehem Steel Corp.? 

Mr. Henderson. Yes. I was just conferring with counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. You felt it necessary to confer with counsel before 
answering that question ? 



820 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Henderson. I think it is my privilege to confer with counsel at 
any time. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been employed by the Bethle- 
hem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Henderson. A little better than 2 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is tlie nature of your duties ? 

Mr. Henderson. Just labor work, general labor. 

Mr. Tavenner. As an employee there, are you a member of a union ? 

Mr. Henderson (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to 
answer that question on the grounds that any answer I give might tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you hold an official position in any union, or have 
you held any official position in a union ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refiise to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you signed a non-Communist affidavit in con- 
nection with union activities ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that you were engaged as a laborer. At 
what type of labor are you engaged at Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Henderson. Just general labor, just pick and shovel, wheel- 
barrow labor, brick tunnels, and unloading work. 

Mr. Tavenner. What particular unions are the bargaining agents 
for the employees who occupy positions such as yours ? 

Mr. Henderson. 2610, United Steel Workers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the only one ? 

Mr. Henderson (after conferring with his counsel) . Will you repeat 
that last question, please ? 

Mr. Tavenner. What are the locals, if any, who would be the bar- 
gaining agents for persons employed in the same capacity that you are 
employed in ? 

Mr. Henderson. I don't know that there is another. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am just asking you whether there is. 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearney. Are you a member of the union just referred to ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearney. Would belonging to a union incriminate you in some 
way? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Isn't there another union known as 2609 ? 

Mr. Henderson (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to 
answer that question on the grounds that any answer I might give 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not asking you whether you are a member of 
it. I am asking you whether there is such a union in your plant? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you hold an official position in any union which 
would require your signing a non-Communist affidavit either by the 



COAIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 821 

constitution or bylaws of the particular union or under the terms 
of the Taft-Hartley Act ? ; 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me, 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, I referred you a few moments ago to an 
article appearing in the May 25, 1947, issue of the Daily Worker 
relating to a petition or release by the Civil Rights Congress in which 
you were identified as the international representative of the Interna- 
tional Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union. 

You refused to state whether or not you w-ere a member of such a 
union. 

I would like to ask you to tell the committee the circumstances under 
which you signed the release issued by the Civil Rights Congress, if 
you did sign the petition or release as stated in this article. 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Another person whose name appears in the release 
in connection with that Civil Rights Congress is Jack Myers, inter- 
national representative of the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine 
Workers. 

Do you know Jack Myers ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Jack Zucker whose name 
also appeared in connection with that petition and who is an inter- 
national representative of the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine 
Workers ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse 

Mr. Tavenner. Of Baltimore. 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Robert W. Lee, interna- 
tional representative of the Food, Tobacco, and Agricultural Workers 
of Baltimore, wiiose name is also signed to that petition? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answ^er that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Robert W. Lee is now em- 
ployed by the Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Ta^tnner. Are you acquainted with Max Weinstock, United 
Furniture Workers, Baltimore, wdiose name is also signed to that 
petition ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the gi'ounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Irving Dvorin, port agent 
of the Marine Cooks and Stewards, who testified here yesterday ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. And whose name also appeared in connection with 
that petition. 

Are you acquainted with Milton Seif, chairman of Local 24, Ship- 
yard Workers, of Baltimore ? 



822 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Henderson.. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Any questions, Mr. Walter ? 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Any questions, Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Any questions, Mr. Japkson ? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Henderson, have you served in the Armed 
r orces ? 

Mr. Henderson. No ; I haven't. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you do so if drafted ? 

Mr. Henderson. If drafted, I would be glad to serve. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you serve in a war conceivably against the 
Soviet Union ? "^ ^ 

Mr. Henderson. If inducted to serve in the Armed Forces, I would 
serve. 

Mr. Jackson. If you observed a friend of yours committing an 
act of sabotage in a plant, would you report that individual to the 
Federal Bureau of Investigation or to the proper authorities within 
the plant ? 

Mr. Henderson. Immediately. 

Mr. Jackson. Can a man be employed at Bethlehem Steel without 
being a member of the union ? 

Mr. Henderson. He can. 

Mr. Jackson. He can be ? 

Mr. Henderson. I am sure he can be. 

Mr. Jackson. Will you speak a little louder? 

Mr. Henderson. Sure he can. 

Mr. Jackson. Outside of an executive or supervisorial capacity, he 
can be employed ? 

Mr. Henderson. He can be employed. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you, as a condition of employment, sign a 
loyalty oath or take a loyalty oath to the United States, if required 
to do so as a condition of employment ? 

Mr. Henderson. Well, that is a hypothetical question. It is specu- 
lative. 

Of course, it depends on the type of oath and how it is worded. 
I don't know how you would word it. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Henderson, you are either loyal, or you are not 
loyal. 

Mr. Henderson. I mean the oath. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you take an oath of loyalty as a condition 
of employment ? That only requires a yes or no answer. Would you, 
or would 3^ou not ? 

Mr. Henderson. You say would I take a loyalty oath, sure. 

Mr. Jackson. You would? 

Mr. Henderson. Sure. • 

Mr. Jackson. Would you sign a non-Communist affidavit as a 
condition of employment? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Do you have anything further, Mr. Tavenner? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 823 

Mr. Tavenner. I have one further question. 

Were yoii accompanied here this niornin*; by officials of the Com- 
munist Party of the District of Cohunbia and Maryland? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I midit give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, who did accompany you? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. TAi-ENNER. Were you accompanied by any individuals? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that on the grounds that any 
answer that I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Ta^t:nner, No, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. You are excused, 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Wood. Will you call your next witness? 

Mr. Tavenner. Phil Gran. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Gran, will you stand and be sworn, please? 

Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you give this committee 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

TESTIMONY OF PHILIP GRAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

HAROLD BUCHMAN 

Mr. Kearney. I didn't hear the answer to the putting of the oath 
to the witness, as to whether he responded, or not ? 

Mr. Wood. He doesn't have to. He is bound by the rules of this 
committee. 

Mr. Gran. I said I do, sir. 

Mr. Wood. All right. 

Mr. Gran. I didn't say it loud enough. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your full name, sir? 

Mr. Gran. Philip Gran. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are represented here by counsel, I see? 

Mr. Grax. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will council please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. BucHMAN. Harold Buchman, 213 Tower Building, Baltimore, 
Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Gran? 

Mr. Gran. I Mas born in Poland, August 24, 1911. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you speak up a little louder, please, Mr. Gran? 

Mr. Wood. Would you mind speaking a little louder so we can hear 
you. 

Mr. Gran. I was born in Poland, August 24, 1911. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen? 

Mr. Gran. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you naturalized, and where? 

Mr. Gran. I was naturalized in the County of Kings. 

Mr. Ta\t<:nner. Kings County? 

Mr. Gran. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. New York? 



824 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA I 

k 

Mr. Gran. Eight. \ 

Mr. Tavenner. When? j 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it might i 

incriminate me. \ 

Mr. Tavenner. You refuse to answer 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Gran, there is no way on this earth that you could \ 

be incriminated by stating when you were naturalized as an Amer- ' 

ican citizen. It hasn't gotten to the point in America where a man is i 

guilty of any crime for being declared a naturalized citizen of America. ' 

Mr. Gran. I think it is 1937. i 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to the United States ? ; 

Mr. Gran. 1929. 

Mr. Wood. We are operating with a full committee, with a quorum 

present. Let the record show that. ! 
Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to the United States? 
Mr. Wood. He said in 1937. ^ 

Mr. Ta\t2nner. And you arrived in the United States in 1929. ) 

Mr. Gran. 1929. j 

Mr. Tavenner. Under what name were 3^ou naturalized ? • 

Mr. Gran. Philip Gran. i 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that your name prior to your naturalization ? . 

. Mr. Gran. Right. Yes, sir. j: 

Mr. Wood. Is the correct spelling of that name Gran, G-r-a-n ? ] 

Mr. Gran. That is right. _ 1 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time changed your name? > 

Mr. Gran. I beg your pardon ? ' 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time changed your name ? ' 
Mr. Gran. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Philip Gran was the name given you at birth ? j 
Mr. Gran. As far as I know. i 
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state, please, what your educational back- 
ground has been ? i 
Mr. Gran. Elementary school. : 
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you receive that training, Mr. Gran? ! 
In New York? ! 
Mr. Gran. Brooklyn. ; 
Mr. Tavenner. Where are you now employed ? 

Mr. Gran. Bethlehem Steel. I 

Mr. Tavenner. In Baltimore? I 

Mr. Gran. Yes. j 

Mr. Wood. What is the witness' age, please ? \ 

What is your age, please ? How old are you ? j 

Mr. Gran. Thirty-nine. j 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you worked for the Bethlehem Steel , 
Corp.? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel). About 10 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the nature of your employment there ? I 

Mr. Gran. Pipe fitter. • \ 
Mr. Tavenner. Pipe fitter? 

Mr. Gran. Yes, sir. ' I 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to your employment there 10 years ago, how , 

were you employed? | 

Mr. Gran. In the plumbing line. j 

Mr. Tavenner. Where? . ! 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 825 

Mr. Gran. In Brooklyn ; in New York, at times. 

Mr. Tavenner. By whom were you employed ? 

Mr. Gran. I couldn't remember the names, sir. They were small 

employers. 

Mr. Tav-enner. How lon<r did you work in that capacity ? 

Mr. Gran. I don't remember. 

Mr. Wood. We still can't hear you up here, :Mr. Gran. 

Mr. Gran. I worked in a gasoline station for a while. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. I merely wanted to know how long you had worked 
at the plumbing trade in New York prior to your going to Baltimore. 

Mr. Gran. About 6 years. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. Now, during the 10 years that you have worked at 
the Bethlehem Steel Corp., what union, or unions, have you been af- 
filiated with? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel). I belonged to the 
Steel Workers, local 2610. 

Mr. Tavenner. You will have to speak a little louder. 

Mr. Gran. This is my natural voice. I am sorry. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Try to make an etYort to speak a little louder. 

Mr. Gran. I belonged to the Steel Workers, local 2610. 

Mr. Tavenner. 2610? 

Mr. Gran. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you held any official positions in the local? 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that the 
answer may inciiminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you, as a member, or as an official of that union, 
required by the constitution and the bylaws of that union to sign a 
non-Communist affidavit? 

Mr. Gran. Will you repeat that question, please? 

Mr. TAAT2NNER. Are you, as a member, or an officer in that union, 
required by the constitution and bylaws to sign a non-Communist 
affidavit ? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel). To my knowledge, 
the bylaws of the union require that an officer sign an affidavit. 

Mr. Tavenner. But not a member? 

Mr. Gran. No. 

Mr. .Tavenner. Have you signed such an affidavit? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the grounds that the answer might incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you repeat that. I can't hear you. 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that my 
answer might incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, are you now, or have you ever been, a member 
of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Wood. On the same grounds ? What grounds ? 

Mr. Gran. That my answer might incriminate me, might tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, are you acquainted with Henry Thomas? 

If I may identify him for you, Harry Thomas was a member of 
the state committee of the Communist Party from Washington. He 
was identified as the president of local 74 of one of the unions, one of 
the laborers' unions, I understand, here in the District of Columbia. 

Are you acquainted with him ? 



826 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that my 
answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Henry Thomas, as president of that union, was 
subpenaed before this committee and very frankly told the committee 
of his own Communist Party membership and his Communist Party 
activities, and frankly disclosed to this committee what he knew about 
them. 

In the coui-se of his testimony he identified you as a member of the 
state committee of the Communist Party. The state committee is 
the governing body of the Maryland and District of Columbia section, 
district No. 4. 

Are you willing to show the same amount of patriotism and frank- 
ness as Henry Thomas did by testifying as to whether or not his 
testimony w^as correct, or as to whether it was false ? 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that my 
answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the testimony that I referred to, identifying 
you as a member of the state committee, true or false? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the grounds that my answer might tend to incrim- 
inate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter, any questions ? 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle, any questions? 

Mr. Doyle. Are you acquainted with your foreman of the shop 
at Bethlehem at which you work? 

Mr. Gran. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. What is his name? 

Mr. Gran. Mr. Seckford. 

Mr. Doyle. How do you spell that ? 

Mr. Gran. To my knowledge it is spelled S-e-c-k-f-o-r-d. 

Mr. Doyle. In what shop do you work at Bethlehem ? "Wliat is the 
number of the shop ? 

Mr. Gran. There is no number. There is a department. 

Mr. Doyle. What department ? 

Mr. Gran. It is C-Y. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you a steward in that shop, or have you ever been ? 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that my 
answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. What is the name of the Bethlehem Steel Co.'s manager ? 
Do you know his name ? 

Mr. Gran. I wouldn't know, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. What organizations, if any, are you a member of which 
are not the Communist Party, or any affiliate of the Communist Party ? 
Are you a member of the Elks or the Moose, or are you a member of 
the Masons, or are you a member of any church organization and, if 
so, what organizations? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel). I would rather 
answer that question individually. 

Mr. Doyle. All right, you answer it any way you want to. You tell 
me what organizations you are a member of without my questioning 
you, if that will save your time. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 827 

Now, I am not asking you whether you are a member of the Com- 
nuniist Party, because you have ah-eacty refused to answer that ques- 
tion when you were asked it. Other than the Communist Party, 
Avhat organizations are you a member of, Mr. Gran ? 

Mr. Gean (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to an- 
swer that question on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate 
me ; my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

INIr. Doyle. Well, I will ask you in a different way, then. 

Are you a member of any organizations in your own community, 
any committees, or any organizations, or any civic organizations, any 
lodges? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his comisel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me; my an- 
swer might tend to incriminate me. 

]Mr. Doyle. Do you pay dues to any organization or any committee? 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that my 
answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you a member of the Elks ? 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Doyle. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
the answer might incriminate me, any answer I would give to it. 

Mr. Doyle. Now, as I understand it, then, you are claiming your 
privilege, under the Constitution, on the grounds that if you were 
a member of the Elks in this country, anj^ lodge of Elks, it might 
subject you to criminal prosecution if you were, and if you answered 
f ranklj^ that you were. Is that the import of your answer ? Is that 
what you mean ? 

I notice that you are conferring with counsel. That is your privi- 
lege, but I merely wanted to know whether or not you are claiming 
this privilege as a matter of good faith, or what? 

That is, of course, for me to conclude. I can't see how in heaven 
it is going to involve you in criminal embarrassment to be a member 
of the Elks. • 

Mr. Gran. I didn't specify any organization. I said I refused to 
answer the question about belonging to any community organizations 
on the grounds that my answer might incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Reporter, will you please read mj^ last question? 
I thought I asked specifically whether or not he was a member of the 
Elks or any lodge or chapter of it. 

(The portion of the record referred to, heretofore transcribed, was 
read by the reporter.) 

Mr. Gran. No; I clo not belong to the Elks, if that is the question. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you a member of ajiy Masonic fraternity in your 
town ? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel). What do you mean 
by Masonic organizations ? I don't know of an3\ 

Mr. Doyle. Are .you a member of any conmiittee or group of citi- 
zens, either born in Poland, or who have Polish parents, or speak the 
Polish language, in your own community in the United States? 

Mr. (tran. It would be hard for me to answer such a question, sir. 
I don't know. 

Mr. Doyle. You were born in Poland ? 



828 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Gran. Yes ; but it would be hard for me to answer any ques- 
tion like that. How do I know where the people are born, or 

Mr. Doyle. Are you a member of any group or any committee, or 
any community organization of people who claim to have been born 
in Poland, or who claim that their parents were born in Poland? 

Mr. Gran. I don't understand that question, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. You were born in Poland. You so testified. Then you 
became naturalized, you claim, in this country. 

Now, are you a member of any Polish society or Polish committee 
in this country ? 

Mr. Jackson. Will the gentleman yield ? 

Such as the National Polish Congress, which is one instance? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

]SIr. Doyle. Do you have to ask your counsel whether or not you are ? 

Mr. Gran. No ; I am consulting with my counsel on my legal rights. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, you are entirely permitted to do that, but you 
are taking so long about it that I am wondering whether or not it is 
a legal question. 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you an officer of any Polish society or any society 
which has the name "Polish" or "Poland" in it in this country? 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that my 
answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you ever been a member of any society, or com- 
mittee, or group ? 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that any 
answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. I may be mistaken, but my impression is that perhaps 
most people who were born in Poland, or who are of Polish ancestry, 
are generally considered to be members of the Catholic faith. In 
asking this question, I don't mean to infer any criticism of that faith, 
you understand, the same as people with the name of Doyle are gen- 
erally considered to be Irish, and I am proud of it. 

Now, I am asking you whether or not you are a member of any 
Catholic society in your community, and, if so, what ? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel). Sir, I think that 
question is probably delving too much into my private beliefs and 
religion, and I don't think it is a fair question. 

Mr. Doyle. Are we to say that whatever your answer was, whether 
you were or were not, I would naturally not ask anything about your 
faith. The import of my question was not directed at what you believe, 
but was simply a question as to whether or not you were a member. I 
want the record to show that. 

I notice you are consulting with your counsel. That is all right, but 
I will ask you now whether you are a member of the Knights of Co- 
lumbus ? That is a great organization of Catholic men which we all 
respect. Are you a member of that organization ? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel). I think there is 
only one faith for the Knights of Columbus: isn't that a fact? 

By answering that question, I would have to divulge my religion. 

Mr. Doyle. It is not a matter of religion. As far as my question is 
concerned, we all respect the Knights of Columbus, which is a great 
organization of great American men. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 829 

Now, are you a member of that organization, or are you going to 
claim tiie constitutional privilege that it might be a crime to be a 
member of that ? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel) . I don t belong to the 
Knights of Columbus, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Frazier, do you have any questions ? 

Mr. Fraxieu. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney, any questions? 

Mr. Kearney. Do you believe in the existence of a Supreme Being? 

Mr. { Jran. I think that is a 

Mr. Kearney. Would that answer tend to incriminate you? 

Mr. Gran. That delves into my beliefs, and I would object to that 
question. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. How^ did you enter the United States Mr. Gran? 

Mr. Gran. Through a reserve quota. What do you mean by "How 
did I enter the United States?" 

Mr. Jackson. What w^as your port of entry? 

Mr. Gran. The port of New York. 

Mr. Jackson. Upon entry were you in possession of a legal immi- 
gration quota number? 

Mr. Gran. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. When did you file your first citizenship papers, and 
where ? 

(Tlie witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Wood. Let's get along, gentlemen. You were asked when you 
filed them and where. 

Mr. Gran. I was going to answer excepting that I can't remember 
the date. I have all of this in my documents at home, naturally. 

Mr. Wood. Give us the best recollection you have of the approximate 
date. 

Mr. Gran. Did you ask where? 

Mr. Jackson. When and where. 

Mr. Gran. Well, I think I filed for the first papers immediately, I 
mean within a short period after I entered this country. 

Mr. Jackson. Where ? 

Mr. Gran. In Kings County. 

Mr. Jackson. When did you receive your final citizenship papers? 

Mr. Gran. 1937. 

Mr. Jackson. Have you been abroad since that time? 

Mr. Gran. No, sir. 

Mr, Jackson. You have heard the questions I directed to the pre- 
vious witness. I am going to direct the same ones to you. 

First of all, do you believe a naturalized citizen, if anything, owes 
perhaps more loyalty to this country than a native-born citizen ? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel). I don't know that 
he owes more. I believe he owes the same loyalty. 

Mr. Jackson. You believe he owes loyalty to the country. 

Mr. Gran. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you think that one can be a member of the Com- 
munist Party and be a loyal American citizen at the same time ? 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
any answer I give might tend to incriminate me. 



830 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Jackson, Do you mean to tell me that if you were to say that 
one could not be a Communist and good American citizen at the same 
time, that would tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Gran. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
my answer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. If during the course of your work in the plant you 
saw an act of sabotage committed, would you immediately report 
that sabotage to the proper authorities ? 

Mr. Gran. I would. 

Mr. Jackson. The Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Gran. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Even though it involved a friend of yours, or one 
with Avhom you might be intimately associated ? 

Mr. Gran. I would. 

Mr. Jackson. Have you served in the Armed Forces? 

Mr. Gran. No, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you serve in the Armed Forces if you were 
drafted? 

Mr. Gran. I would if called upon. 

Mr, Jackson. Did you register for the draft for the last war? 

Mr. GiiAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you serve this countrv in a war against a 
nation which practiced communism, or the communistic philosophy 
as a system of government ? 

Mr. Gran. Would you repeat that question ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. 

Would you fight in a war against the Soviet Union ? 

Mr, Gran. I would fight in a war against any country that would 
attack this country. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you sign a loyalty oath, and an oath of loyalty 
to this country ? 

First of all, let me ask you this : Did you sign, as a part of your 
naturalization process, an oath of loyalty to this country? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel). I don't remember 
now what is required, but I fulfilled all the requirements as required. 

Mr. Jackson. You fulfilled all the requirements of naturalization? 

Mr. Gran. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. Would j^ou sign a loyalty oath as a coiidition of em- 
ployment ? 

Mr. Gran. I would sign if I had to. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you sign a non-Communist affidavit as a con- 
dition of employment ? 

Mr. Gran (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the grounds that any answer might tend to incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. Jackson. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions by counsel ?, 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be ex- 
cused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. You will be excused. 

(Witness excused.) 



COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 831 

Mr. Wood. The committee will have to recess now. What time will 
be best ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Any time that suits the committee. 

Mr. Wood. I can be back at 3 o'clock. Can the other members be 
back at that time ? 

Mr. Walter. Can you make it earlier ? 

Mr. Wood. Two-thirty, then. 

The hearing is recessed until 2 :30 this afternoon. 

(Whereupon, at 12:30 p. m., the hearing recessed, to reconvene at 
2 :30 p. m., same day.) 

« 

Afternoon Session 

The hearing reconvened at 2 : 45 p. m., upon the expiration of the 
recess. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order. 

Do you have some additional witnesses, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. William H. Wood, please. 

Mr. Wood. Let the record show that for the purpose of the examina- 
tion of Mr. Wood, under the authority of this committee, 1 have set 
up a subcommittee, composed of Messrs. Walter, Doyle, Frazier, and 
Wood, all of whom are present. 

Mr. DuBOW. We wish to object to proceeding without a quorum of 
the committee, sir. 

Mr. Wood. There is a quorum here.- 

Mr. DuBOw. We would like the record to show that we are proceed- 
ing under protest. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Wood, will you stand and be sworn, please ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God? 

Witness Wood. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM H. WOOD, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

MITCHELL A. DUBOW 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. What is your full name, please, sir ? 

Witness Wood. William H. Wood. 
* Mr. Tavenner. I take it you are represented by counsel ? 

Witness Wood. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. DuBow. Mitchell A. Dubow, 213 Tower Building, Baltimore, 
Md. • 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Wood? 

Witness Wood. June 30, 1918, Boise, Idaho. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you outline briefly your educational back- 
ground ? 

Witness Wood. I had elementary school, high school, and I com- 
pleted an associate's art degree in the Boise Junior College, in Boise, 
Idaho. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien was that? When did you complete that? 

86629 — 51— pt. 1 7 



832 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Witness Wood. I cannot recall the exact date without references. 
It was — I was around the age of 21, 1 believe. I would not want to be 
held to the date. 

Mr, Tavenner. That would make it approximately what year ? 

Witness Wood. 1939. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now live ? 

Witness Wood. 7219 Martell Avenue, Baltimore 22, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you employed in Baltimore ? 

Witness Wood. I am employed by -the Bethlehem Steel Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been employed by Bethlehem 
Steel Corp.? 

Witness Wood. Five and a half years in Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time how were you employed ? 

Witness Wood. I served in the United States Army. 

Mr. Tavenner. For what period of time ? 

Witness Wood. Three and a half years. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Prior to your going into the Army, you were em- 
ployed how? Does that take you back to about the time of the 
completion of your schooling? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on prior employment 
on the ground that it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you hold a Keserve commission in the Army ? 

Witness Wood. I should like to outline my military service. 

I served 314 years in the Army. I was wounded. I was decorated 
for heroism in action. I was commissioned overseas. I was given 
a certificate of service and along with my enlisted men an honorable 
discharge. 

I have whatever status that leaves me in. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you now hold a Reserve commission? 

Witness Wood. I judge I hold a commission in the inactive reserves. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what rank? 

Witness Wood. Second lieutenant. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you reside in Los Angeles at any time? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is Roy Wood a brother of yours ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

I resent the bringing of my family into this hearing. 

Mr. Wood. The committee is not concerned about your resentment, 

sir. 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
any answer I might make to it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will ask you to look behind you in the audience 
to the fourth row and the second person from the right, looking 
straight at you, and I ask you if that is your brother, Roy Wood? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is your brother, Roy Wood, chairman of the Com- 
munist Party for the District of Columbia ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the nature of your employment at the 
Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 833 

Witness Wood. I am a mechanical helper. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you identified with one of the labor unions in 
that plant ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might make might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you taking the position that your membership 
in a labor union would tend to subject you to prosecution for some 
criminal offense? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that it might tend to incriminate me. 

The history of labor unions is one of long difficulties with having 
members prosecuted and blacklisted for criminal offenses for the 
mere exercise of rights that belong to unions that bargain with their 
employers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of a union ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer that I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr, Tavenner. Do you know whether or not the union in the 
Bethlehem Steel Corp. which would have jurisdiction over persons 
employed in a capacity similar to that in which you are employed 
provides by its constitution or bylaws that an officer of the union 
shall sign a non-Communist affidavit? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might make to it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where is the plant located at which you work? 

Witness Wood. That is Sparrows Point, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether there is a cell or a club of 
the Communist Party organization among the employees at that 
plant? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might make might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you, Mr. Wood, ever engaged in organiza- 
tional work for the Communist Party among employees at the Bethle- 
hem Steel Corp. plant ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you attended Communist Party meetings of 
a group organized within the Bethlehem Steel plant at Sparrows 
Point? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Ta\^enner. Do you know Mr. Robert W. Lee ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time attend the meeting of the Com- 
munist Party, that is, among the trade-union members of the Commu- 
nist Party, at the York Hotel in Baltimore ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Are you acquainted with Howard Bernard Silver- 
berg ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Ta\t;nner. Are you acqauinted with Mr. Silverberg's wife ? 



834 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been a member of, or affili- 
ated in any way with the Baltimore County Committee for Peace? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
any answer I might make might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. What connection, or what part, did the Commu- 
nist Party play, if you know, in the formulation and in the operation 
of the Maryland Committee for Peace ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
jany answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Phil Gran? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with any of the other persons 
whose names I will mention to you ? If you are, I would like for you 
to state whether or not they were members of the Communist Party, 
if you know, or whether they are members of the Communist Party, 
if you know : 

Michael Howard ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give to it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you 

Mr. Wood. What about reading the list of names, and then interro- 
gating him about the whole list? That will save a lot of time. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. There are only about four or five of these, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. All right, go ahead. 

Mr. Tavenner. Frank Pinter ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Frank Pinter ? 

Witness Wood. I still refuse to answer the question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Levy Williamson ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Joseph Henderson? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Aaron Ostrovsky ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not any of the persons 
whose names I have mentioned to you were members of the Communist 

Party ? 

Witness Wood. 1 refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you participate in the May Day rally of May 

1,1946? , , 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Ta\t3Nner. I would like to go back again and ask you to de- 
scribe more definitely the character of your work at the Bethlehem 
Steel Corp. plant. 



COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 835 

Witness Wood. I work as a mechanical helper. I help one or an- 
other mechanic in repairing machinery and so forth. 

Mr. TA\rENNER. What type of machinery ? 

Witness Wood. Any type of machinery that is given to us to 
repair. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Wliat type of machinery is that ? 

Witness Wood. It is machinery that operates a blast furnace, the 
blast furnaces department. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you received instructions from the Communist 
Party to slow up the operation of your work as a mechanical helper in 
that plant, would you do it ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

I would not slow up my work in the plant on anybody's instruc- 
tions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you would not do so if you received such 
instructions from the Communist Party? Is that what you mean? 

Witness Wood. The way the question is worded, I refuse to answer 
it on the grounds that any answer I might give might tend to incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you take directions from the Communist 
Party in connection with the performance of your duties in the plant ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

I would take directions from nobody but my superiors with regard 
to my duty in the plant. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask this, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Wood, by your superiors, you mean your employers? 

Witness Wood. I mean my employers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Wood. Mr. Philip Frankfeld, until recently 
chairman of the Communist Party for Maryland and the District of 
Columbia, announced in the March 13, 1949, issue of the Worker that 
the Communist Party supports the statements of William Z. Foster 
and Eugene Dennis to the effect that they would not take up arms 
against the Soviet Union. 

I hand you the article so that you may see it for yourself. 

Do you support that statement? 

Witness Wood. Will you rephrase the question? To that state- 
ment I will say "No" on the grounds that it is not my statement. 

I support my own positions on things. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, would that be your position, or not? 

Witness Wood. I believe that it is possible to achieve peace by ne- 
gotiation among the great powers and that it is the highest patriotism 
to fight for that kind of peace. A world war serves no one's interests, 
not that of the common people of America. 

That is my position. 

A war will destroy hundreds of millions of people, many of them 
in America. It would destroy American cities, and there would in 
the end have to be a negotiated peace anyway. There would be vic- 
tory for nobody. The highest patriotism is achieved by fighting for 
peace and for being for peace, and in that way we protect our own 
country. 



836 COMMUNIST activities in BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, is it peace according to the Communists' 
plan that you are interested in ? 

Witness Wood. It is a peace according to the wishes and desires of 
the American people. 

Mr. Wood. I don't believe the statement made by the witness is 
responsive to the question that was asked of him. Suppose you re- 
peat the question that was originally asked. 

(The pending question, as above recorded, was read by the 
reporter.) 

Witness Wood. It is a peace according to the American people. 

Mr. Jackson. May I ask a question? 

Do you believe, Mr. Wood, that the Soviet Union is pursuing a 
course designed to bring about a peace of that kind ? 

Witness Wood. I have no knowledge of the inner intentions of the 
Soviet Union. I believe it is possible to negotiate peace with the Soviet 
Union. 

Mr. Wood. In the event that it isn't, and this country becomes em- 
broiled in a conflict of arms with the Soviet Union, would you sup- 
port the Armed Forces of America in such a conflict ? 

Witness Wood. I believe that is a hypothetical question. It is pos- 
sible to achieve peace. 

Mr. Wood. It is purely hypothetical, but I am asking you to answer 
it. 

Witness Wood. As an American citizen, I am required to do certain 
things, and I have certain obligations. I will fulfill my obligations of 
citizenship. 

But I regard such an occurrence to be the greatest tragedy for the 
American people, and I think patriotism involves every effort on the 
part of the American people to achieve peace, because I think that is 
the thing that marks a patriot at this time. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Wood. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Wood, do you feel you are familiar with the Com- 
munist proposal for a negotiated peace ? Do you feel you are familiar 
with that? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

I need to be familiar with no program to understand that peace is 
something that must be worked for and gained at every possible effort 
when there are atom bombs which can destroy the whole world. 

Mr. DoYi.E. Well, Mr. Wood, I want you to know that the only 
difference between you being a decorated veteran and my son being a 
decorated veteran is that he died for his country, and you are still 
alive. He was decorated, too. So as to any question I ask you as 
a living veteran, I want you to know that I am not trying to embarrass 
you or argue with you. I am talking with you as one man to another. 

We are just as much interested in peace as you are. So when I 
asked you that question it was designed to see whether or not you 
could go further and help us understand your viewpoint as a man who 
has been decorated by our country. 

I want you to feel this, if you will, please: Don't feel that this 
committee is antagonistic toward peace. We are not fighting against 
peace. We are trying to uncover men or organizations who are de- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 837 

termined, by subversive misconduct, to destroy our form of constitu- 
tional government. 

Now, I just assumed that you, as a man who wears decorations from 
my country, for which my son died in uniform, have patriotism 
enough, for every reason, to be frank and honest and fair with the 
committee. 

If 3'^ou are prejudiced by reason of what you have read or what you 
have heard or what you may think you have seen, I hope you will open 
up your mind and remove your prejudice, if you have it, against this 
committee's functioning, and that you will believe me when I say that 
you are not more concerned with trying to get world peace than we are. 

But we are concerned that this country shall not be undermined by 
men or by groups, whoever they are, who would destroy our form of 
government. 

I try to be fair in that sort of statement to you because I respect 
the fact that you are a decorated veteran. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed. 

Mr. Ta-vtqnner. Are you now, or have you ever been a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
any answer I might give might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr, Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle, any further questions? 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Wood, are you a member of the American Legion 
or of the Veterans of Foreign Wars ? You served in the Army with 
distinction, according to your testimony. 

Witness Wood. I refuse to answer that, jquestion on the grounds 
that any answer I might give might tend Ho incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. Pardon me at that point. I can't let go unchallenged 
the insinuation that beii)g a member of the American Legion would 
incriminate anybody. 

I happen to have the privilege of being a charter member of that 
organization myself, and I deny the statement that being a member 
of the American Legion would tend to incriminate anybody. 

Proceed. 

Mr. Doyle. I appreciate the chairman making that remark. Of 
course, I am surprised that a decorated veteran would not give an 
honest, open, and frank answer to that, even if you admitted you were 
not a member of the American Legion or of the Veterans of Foreign 
Wars. 

Do I understand that you mean that if you were a member of the 
American Legion or of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, that might in- 
criminate you in some criminal relationship that has nothing to do 
with the Communist Party? 

Witness Wood. I still refuse to answer the question on the grounds 
that the answer might tend to incriminate me. 

All kinds of organizations are having all kinds of allegations 
thrown at them without hearings. One doesn't in the present atmos- 
phere know what organization may be doing what is called subversive, 
and for that reason I still refuse to answer the question on the ground 
that anything I may say, any answer I might give, might tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. In this present situation, Mr. Wood, you are getting a 
hearing, and you have your able lawyer next to you. We are glad he 



838 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

is here because we believe that every person before this committee not 
only has the right, but we urge them to have counsel. That is the right 
of every American citizen, as contrasted to the rights, or with refer- 
ence to certain legal rights in certain countries. There is quite a con- 
trast. 

Now, you are having an open hearing here, aren't you? Do you 
feel we are pressuring you to answer contrary to your own best judg- 
ment and your legal advice ? 

Witness Wood. Mr. Moulder 

Mr. Doyle. No, I am Doyle. I happen to be seated in Moulder's 
seat. 

Witness Woop. I feel you are conducting an inquiry trying to throw 
allegations against honest working people who are trying to earn a 
living in various industrial plants, all of whom are probably loyal 
citizens. 

I do not think that the way in which these kinds of hearings have 
been conducted is fair. It was printed in the Baltimore press and 
promised that witnesses would be fired from their jobs on the basis 
of libel-free evidence. That is the way the Baltimore Sun put it, 
which, to me, is slander covered by congressional immunity. 

I don't think these hearings are a fair type of hearings. 

Mr. DoTLE. Of course, I realize that when you make that sort of 
a statement, you anticipated an opjoortunity to make that sort of a 
statement. 

In other words, you are now glad that you have had that oppor- 
tunity to make that statement, because I realized from your other 
testimony — at least I feel from your other testimony — that it was 
your considered opinion before you came in the room. 

I am glad you got that off your chest. 

But now may I say this to you, Mr. Wood — 

Mr. Chairman, I feel the privilege and the obligation of saying to 
this young man just this : 

This committee is not trying to destroy organized labor, or your 
union. We have no antipathy toward them. For instance, I, as 
a Member of Congress, am always supported in southern California 
by conservative AFL unions and by conservative CIO unions. I am 
not ashamed of that. I believe in organized labor. 

I think all of us believe in collective bargaining, and the necessity 
of it. 

I make that statement to you because I can see from your testimony 
that you are prejudiced by what you have read. You have not the 
facts nor the truth before you. I don't want you to go out of this 
room as a decorated veteran without it being prettly clearly pointed 
out to you that you have been misinformed as to wliat this committee 
is trying to do. 

I can understand the sources from which you get that information, 
and those dirty lies. 

Now, may I just call your attention to the section of the law under 
which we function ? 

One of our duties, assigned by the United States Congress, which 
is your Congress, states that we shall investigate the diffusion within 
the United States of subversive and un-American propaganda that is 
instigated from foreign countries, or within our own country. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 839 

Now, may I ask you what is your own definition of "subversive 
conduct," as you understand, say, Webster's definition ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Doyle. May I state for your help in understanding my ques- 
tion that, as I understand it, the definition of Webster of "subversive" 
means to destroy, to undermine. Therefore, Ave are undertaking, as 
part of our assignment to investigate the people or groups who intend 
to destroy our constitutional form of government. 

Have you any objection to us doing that? That is our assignment, 
sir. Don't you want us to perform our duty under the law ? 

Witness Wood. I will answer by saying that I want you to perforai 
your duty under the law. 

Mr. DoTLE. Well that is our duty, the express language under the 
law. 

Would you favor us doing any less than 100 percent of our duty, 
or less than a 100-percent job in trying to uncover people, or groups 
who are interested directly or indirectly in destroying our form of 
government. 

Do I understand that that is your position, that you criticize this 
committee for doing that ? 

Witness Wood (after conferring with counsel). I have already 
expressed my objections to the method by which the committee has 
conducted the inquiry. It is attacking working people. It is attempt- 
ing to set up a blacklist and get people fired from their jobs. That 
is certainly not in my mind combating this word which you say "sub- 
version." 

Mr. Doyle. Well, now, may I just state to you in closing, Mr. 
Wood — and I feel perhaps I have taken more of your time, and of the 
committee's time than I should have — but you are a young man and 
a decorated veteran, and therefore, sir, your relationship to the coun- 
try is quite distinct, and I hope you appreciate that it is. It is quite 
different and quite distinct from the average man who served in the 
military forces, either living or dead. 

But I want to say to you that when you say we are trying to black- 
list working people, it is absolutely false. We make no distinction 
between any American as far as this committee is concerned, and if 
we can uncover subversive misconduct at any level of American life, 
we will do it. We have no antipathy toward the working people. 

I am the son of a blacksmith. I used to lead horses out of a horse- 
shoeing shop. I want you to know that when you come here with 
the mental attitude that you have, of prejudice against this com- 
mittee, on the theory that we are attacking working people, it is ab- 
solutely false. 

I invite you to get the facts instead of swallowing a lot of misin- 
formation and communistic propaganda designed to undermine our 
Government. 

That is all. 

INIr. Wood. Are there any further questions, Mr. Frazier? 

]Mr. Frazier. Mr. Wood, where were you born? 

Witness Wood. Boise, Idaho. 

INIr. Frazier. Did you live there until you were grown ? 

Witness Wood. Yes. 

Mr. Frazier. Did you attend the public schools out there ? 

Witness Wood. I did. 



840 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Frazier. What college was it that you went to ? 

Witness Wood. I went 1 year to Reed College in Portland, Oreg. 
1 went for something over 2 years to the Boise Junior College, in Boise^ 
Idaho, which gave me a degree called an associate of arts, I believe. 

Mr. Frazier. Associated arts ? 

Witness Wood. Associate of arts. 

Mr. Frazier. No further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Are there any further questions, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. The witness may be excused. 

(The witness was excused) . 

Mr. Wood. We won't have time for another witness this afternoon. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like the following persons who have been 
subpenaed to stand up if they are in the room, please : 

Mr. Levy Williamson. Mr. John Goodell. Mr. Robert W. Lee. 

Mr. Wood. The only purpose in calling your names at this time was 
to ascertain whether you are present because the committee is not going 
to be able to reach you today. 

I am going to excuse the witnesses until Tuesday morning of next 
week at 10 o'clock. You are excused until that time from further 
attendance on the committee. 

The further proceedings of the committee this afternoon will be in 
executive session. 

(Whereupon, at 8 : 30 p. m., the hearing recessed, to reconvene at 
10 a. m., Tuesday, June 26, 1951.) 



HEAEINGS KELATINCt TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN 
THE DEFENSE AEEA OF BALTIMOKE— PAKT 1 

(Based on Testimony of Mary Stalcup Markward) 



TUESDAY, JUNE 26, 1951 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

ON Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. C. 

public hearing 

Tlie Committee on Un-American Activities met pursuant to call at 
10 a. m., in room 226, Old House Office Building, Hon. John S. Wood 
(chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives John S. Wood, 
Francis E. Walter, Bernard W. Kearney, and Charles E. Potter. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel ; Donald T. Appell, investigator; Jolin 
W. Carrington, clerk; and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. The committee will be in order. 

Mr. DuBOw. For the record, we would like to protest that there is 
not a full committee present, and we would like the record to show 
that we are proceeding under protest. 

Mr. Wood. Let the record disclose that under the authority creating 
this committee I, as chairman of the full committee, am appointing 
a subcommittee today consisting of Messrs. Walter, Kearney, Potter, 
and Wood, who are all present. 

Mr. DuBOw. We would still like the record to show that we are 
proceeding under protest. 

Mr. Wood. Who is the first witness this morning, Mr. Counsel? 

Mr. Ta\t2Nner. Levy Williamson. 

Mr. Wood. Will you hold up your right hand, Mr. Williamson, 
and be sworn ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give this com- 
mittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Williamson. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF LEVY WILLIAMSON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, MITCHELL A. DUBOW 

Mr. Ta\T5nner. Wliat is your full name, please? 
Mr» Williamson. Levy Williamson. 

841 



842 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST BALTIMORE DEFEOSTSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. You are represented here by counsel, I understand. 

Mr. Williamson". That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. DuBow. Mitchell A. Dubow, 213 Tower Building, Baltimore, 
Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Williamson, will you state when and where 
you were born ? 

Mr. Williamson. I was born in South Carolina, June 5, 1915. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational background? 

Mr. Williamson, Fifth grade. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Williamson. 204 Fleming Drive. 

Mr. Tavenner. In Baltimore ? 

Mr. Williamson. Baltimore 22, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Baltimore ? 

Mr. Williamson. Ever snce 1924. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1924? 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Counsel, I cannot hear what the witness is saying. 

(Addressing the witness:) If you will take the gum out of your 
mouth, I think we might be able to hear you. 

Mr. Tavenner. How^ long have you lived in Baltimore? 

Mr. Williamson. I came to Baltimore in 1924. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived there continuously since 1924 or 
were there periods when you moved away to other places ? 

Mr. Williamson. One time. I went to New York for about 5 or 6 
months to work.. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that? 

Mr. Williamson. That was around in 1937, 1938. 

Mr. Tavenner. What type of work did you take up in New York 
when you went there at that time ? 

Mr. Williamson. Factory work, spring factory. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat was the name of the company for which you 
worked ? 

Mr. Williamson. At the time I was in New York? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Williamson. It was Marcus Spring. 

Mr, Tavenner. On your return to Baltimore, how were you em- 
ployed? 

Mr. Williamson. I went back to Comfort Spring. 

Mr, Tavenner. Speak a little louder, please. 

Mr. Williamson, I went back to Comfort Spring, 

Mr. Tavenner, That is the name of the company for which you 
worked ? 

Mr, Williamson. Yes. 

Mr, Tavenner, How long did you work there ? 

Mr, Williamson, I don't know exactly. I would say about 5 or 6 
months. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then what was your next employment after that? 

Mr. Williamson. Bethlehem Steel, Sparrows Point. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been working there ever since? 

Mr. Williamson. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the character of your work there? . 

Mr, Williamson. I am a ladle liner, in other words, a bricklayer. 
I don't get the rating of bricklayer. I get ladle liner. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 843 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Williamson, are you now a member or have 
you ever been a member of the State committee of the Communist 
Party — and by "State committee" I mean the committee comprising 
the area of district 4, which is the State of Maryland and the District 
of Columbia. 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now or have you ever been a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Henry Thomas ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Henry Thomas testified before this committee in 
December of 1950 that you were a member of the State committee of 
the Communist Party, and by "State committee" I again refer to the- 
committee for the area of district No. 4, 

Was that testimony by Mr. Thomas true or false ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did a person by the name of Mike Howard ever 
serve on the State committee of the Communist Party, to your knowl- 
edge ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is true, is it not, that he is an employee of the 
Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as stated. 

Mr. Kearney. How would the fact that you knew him to be an em- 
ployee of the Bethlehem Steel Corp. incriminate you in any way ? 

Mr. Williamson. How was that? 

Mr. Kearney. Will the stenographer read the question, please? 

(The question referred to was read by the reporter.) 

Mr. Williamson (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to 
answer that question on the grounds that what I may say may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearney. In other words, you just refuse to answer the ques- 
tion? Is that the answer? 

Mr. Williamson. On the grounds that what I may say may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearney. Will you explain to me how the fact that you knew 
the individual to be working for the Bethlehem Steel Corp. could in- 
criminate you, that is, your answer as to whether you did or didn't ? Is 
there anything funny about it? 

Mr. Williamson (after conferring with his counsel). I still refuse 
to answer that question on the grounds that what I may say may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you speak a little louder, please ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearney. I still insist, Mr. Chairman, that the witness has not 
given any answer to the question I asked him. 



844 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Wood. To the contrary, lie has declined to answer. 
Mr. Tavenker. Did Sam Gordon serve as a member of the State 
committee of the Communist Party, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question'on the grounds 
tliat what 1 may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Alfred McPherson, of the Shipworkers' Union, 
serve on the State committee of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Steve Sebo serve on the State committee of the 
Communist Party, to your knowledge? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he employed at the Bethlehem Steel Corp. 
plant at any time you were employed there ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Pete Forrest serve on the State committee of 
the Communist Party, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
of what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he was formerly employed by 
the American Smelting & Refining Co. ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he is presently employed at 
that plant? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Ta\t<:nner. Did Frank Pinter serve on the State committee of 
the Communist Party, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Iz Schwartz serve on the State committee of the 
Communist Party, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not he was employed up 
until as late as 1949 by the city of Baltimore ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Selma Weiss serve on the State conmiittee of 
the Communist Party, to your knowledge? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Tom Connor of the Shipworkers Union serve 
on the State committee of the Communist Party, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Lou Gilbert, an organizer for the Furniture 
Workers, serve on the State committee of the Communist Party, to 
your knowledge? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 845 

Mr. Tavennek. Did Phil Gran serve on the State committee of the 
Communist Party, to your knowledge ? 

Mr, Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he employed by the Bethlehem Steel Cor- 
poration ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Milton Newman ^ serve on the State committee 
of the Communist Party, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not Milton Newman, 
while employed by the Social Security, was an officer of the Federal 
and Public Workers? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Mrs. Alverta Parnell serve as a member of 
the State committee of the Communist Party, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I might say might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Aaron Ostrofsky, an 
employee of the Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Howard Silverberg, em- 
ployed by the Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Williamson, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Koy Wood, formerly em- 
ployed by the Bethlehem Steel Corp. and presently alleged to be the 
chairman of the Communist Party for the District of Columbia is 
a brother of William Wood who is now employed by the BetTilehem 
Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before given. 

Mr. Kearney. Is there anyone you know or anyone of your asso- 
ciates that you can name without incriminating yourself ? 

Mr, Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there a cell of the Communist Party now existing 
in the Bethlehem Steel Corp. at Sparrows Point ? 

Mr. Williamson. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that what I may say may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner, Are you acquainted with Milton Seif ? 

Mr. WiLLL\Mso]sr. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds as before given. 

Mr. Taa^nner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney ? 



* Protested hearings ; gave address as 1616 Dartford Road, 



846 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Kearney. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Potter? 

Mr. PoTTEK. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. The witness is excused. 

(Witness excused.) 

(Testimony of next witness on this general subject, John F. Goodell, 
is printed in another volume under same title, pt. 3.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order, and let the record dis- 
close that for the purpose of this investigation this afternoon I, as 
chairman of the committee, have set up a subcommittee consisting 
of Messrs. Walter, Doyle, Kearney, and Wood. We are all present. 

Who is your first witness? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Robert W. Lee. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Lee, will you hold up your right hand, please. 

Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this subcommittee 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mr. Lee. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat, sir. 

Mr. BucHMAN. Just for the sake of the record, I wish to note my 
objection to the absence of a quorum. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT W. LEE, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

HAROLD BUCHMAN 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your full name, please ? 
Mr. Lee. Robert W. Lee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel ? 
Mr. Lee. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel identify himself for the record? 
Mr. BucHMAN. Harold Buchman, 213 Tower Building, Baltimore, 
Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Lee, when and where were you born? 

Mr. Lee. Washington, D. C, March 26, 1914. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational training? 

Mr. Lee. I have the equivalent of a high-school education. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside? 

Mr. Lee. I reside in Baltimore, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. What address, please ? 

Mr. Lee. 1206 Bolton Street. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the name of the street ? 

Mr. Lee. B-o-l-t-o-n, Bolton. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Baltimore? 

Mr. Lee. At the present time, since 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. Had you lived there prior to that time ? 

Mr. Lee. Yes, I had. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that? 

Mr. Lee. 1939. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 847 

Mr. Tavenner, How long were you there in that period ? 

Mr. Lee. I was there until the time that I entered the service. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that was from 1939 to what date ? 

Mr. Lee. 1941. 

Mr. Tavenner. And prior to your moving to Baltimore in 1939, 
where did you live? 

Mr, Lee. I lived in Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you went to Baltimore in 1939, how were 
you employed ? 

Mr. Lee (after consulting with his counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have employment in Baltimore between 
1939 and 1941 ? 

Mr. Lee. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that any 
answer I give may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you employed by the Federal Government 
at any time between 1939 and 1941 ? 

Mr. Lee (after consulting with his counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the grounds that any answer I give may tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Kearney. Do you mean that employment by the United States 
Government might tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Lee. I still refuse to answer the question for the previous rea- 
sons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do I understand that you contend that it might 
endanger you to criminal prosecution to testify that you w^orked for 
the Government ? Do I understand that ? 

Mr. Lee. I refuse to answer the -question that you asked on the 
grounds that it may tend to incriminate me, as before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give to the committee, or state to the 
committee, your reasoning for your contention that it might tend to 
incriminate you to admit having worked for the United States Govern- 
ment ? 

Mr. Lee (after consulting with is counsel).! understand my con- 
stitutional rights, and I understand that I do not have to answer the 
question, and I refuse on the same grounds as before, that any answer 
] give may tend to incriminate me. I am aware of my rights under the 
fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you married? 

Mr. Lee. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your wife's name ? 

Mr. Lee. Gentlemen, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that it may tend to incriminate me, and further, the relationship of 
marriage is a private relationship and I don't want my wife's name 
brought into this. 

Mr. Wood. If you refuse to answer, there is no reason to press any 
further grounds. 

(Consultation between Mr. Wood and Mr. Tavenner.) 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Lee, the question asked you a while ago was whether 
you were employed by the United States Government in any capacity 
between the years 1939 and 1941, inclusive. As chairman of this com- 
mittee, I direct that you answer that question. 



86629— 51— pt. 1- 



848 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Lee (after consulting with his counsel). Will you be precise 
about the dates, 1939 and 1941 ? 

Mr. Wood. I will ask if at any time since the beginning of 1939 you 
have been employed by the United States Government, and I direct 
you to answer that question. 

Mr. Lee (after consulting with his counsel). Did you say any time 
since 1939 ? 

Mr. Wood. Since the beginning of the year 1939, since January 1, 
1939, up to today. 

Mr. Lee. I think it is a matter of record that I was in the Armed 
Forces from April 18, 1941, until June 26, 1945. I had 4 years and 
2 months in the service. I served overseas for a period of 28 months, 
and I was discharged honorably. I am proud of my record in the 
service. 

Mr. Wood. Is that the only service you have had with the United 
States Government since 1939 ? 

Mr. Lee (after lengthy consultation with his counsel) . I still refuse 
to answer tlie question on the grounds that any answer I give may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. I direct you to answer the question as to whether or not, 
since January 1939, you have had employment with the United States 
■Government in any capacity other than military service? 

Mr. Lee (after consulting with his counsel). I am sorry, sir, I have 
to refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I have given 
'before. 

Mr. Wood. You don't have to refuse. You don't have to do any- 
thing but die. We all have to do that. But what do you do ? 

Mr. Lee. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that any 
answer I give may tend to incriminate me, and I feel that you are also 
intimidating me, sir. 

Mr, Wood. There is no intimidation here. I simply directed you 
to answer the question. You declined to do so. As far as I am con- 
cerned, I have no further questions. Do you, Mr. Walter ? 

Mr. Walter. No. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. DoTLE. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney? 

Mr. Kearnet. I have no questions. 

Mr. Wood. Do you, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be ex- 
'Cused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

]\fr. Wood. You are excused. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Wood. Call the next witness. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Mr. Louis Pearlman. 

Mr. FoRER. Mr. Chairman, I object to the absence of a quorum of 
the full committee. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Pearlman, will you raise your right hand, please? 
Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this subcommittee shall 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
'God? 

Mr. Pearlman. I do. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 849 

Mr. Wood. Let the record show that a subcommittee composed of 
Messrs. Walter, Doyle, Kearney, and Wood has been set up by me 
as chairman of the committee, and we are all present. 

Mr. FoRER. May the record show that we are proceeding under 
protest, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Wood. Yes. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

TESTIMONY OF LOUIS PEARLMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

JOSEPH FORER 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please ? 

Mr. Pearlman. Louis Pearlman. 

Mr. Tavenner. L-o-u-i-s is the spelling ? 

Mr. Pearlman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Pearlman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. FoRER. Joseph Forer, 711 Fourteenth Street NW., Washing- 
ton, D. C. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Pearlman ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I was born in Russia about 1889, according to the 
old books that we have found at home. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to the United States ? 

Mr. Pearlman. 1910. 

Mr. Wood. I wonder if you would raise your voice a little so that 
we can hear you up here ? 

Mr. Pearlman. Sure. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen? 

Mr. Pearlman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you naturalized? 

Mr. Pearlman. In Baltimore, around about 1917 or 1918, or may- 
be it was 1919. I couldn't recollect the exact date. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the name Louis Pearlman your name prior to 
your naturalization ? 

Mr. Pearlman. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you outline to the committee your educational 
training? 

Mr. Pearlman. My educational training was some Jewish and 
going to night school in the United States. I learned how to read and 
write. 

Mr, Tavenner. Wliere do you presently reside ? 

Mr. Pearlman. 1817 Irving Street, Northwest. 

Mr. Tavenner. What city ? 

Mr. Pearuvian. Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Washington? 

Mr. Pearlman. Five years. 

Mr. Tavenner. For 5 years? 

Mr. Pearlman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. And prior to that time wliere did you live? 

Mr. Pearlman. In Baltimore. 

Mr. Tamlnner. Where did you reside in Baltimore? 

Mr. Pearlman. Different places, 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you live in Baltimore? 

Mr. Pearlman. Thirty-six years in Baltimore. 



850 coMMuisriST activities m Baltimore defeostse area* 

Mr. Tavenner. How have you been employed in the city of Wash- 
ington ? 

Mr. Pearlman. Employed in a grocery. store. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you employed there, or is it a business owned 
and operated by you ? 

Mr. Pearlman. "Well, up until last year I was part owner. Now 
I am just employed part time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where are you employed now, you say part time? 

^r. Pearlman. L & W Market, 1221 North Glebe Road, Arlington, 
my son's store there. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say you were coowner in the store up until 
a year or a year and a half ago ? 

Mr. Pearlman. About that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you still a part owner ? 

Mr. Pearlman. 'Part owner. I gave him some money to go in 
business with. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is still your business, isn't it, or at least partly so? 

Mr. Pearlman. Partly so, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the only business that you have been engaged 
in in Washington? 

Mr. Pearlman. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you own a place of business at more than one- 
location ? 

Mr. Pearlman. Never ; not in Washington. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your business in Baltimore prior to- 
your moving to Washington? 

Mr. Pearlman. Prior to my moving I had a grocery store also. 

Mr. Tavenner. For how long a period of time did you have the 
grocery store? 

Mr. Pearlman. I had a grocery store for a year, and prior to that 
I ran a cab about 8 months, and prior to that I had a grocery store. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you operated the cab, did you operate it 
individually, or did you work for someone? 

Mr. Pearlman. I worked for the Smi Cab Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of the cab company ? 

Mr. Pearlman. Sun. 

Mr. Tavenner. The Sun Cab Co. ? 

Mr. Pearlman. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were you living on May 4, 1946 ? Were youi 
in Washington or in Baltimore at that time ? 

Mr. Pearlman. May 4, 1946. I think I was still living in Balti- 
more. I am not sure. 

Mr. Wood. That was 5 years ago last month. 

Mr. Pearlman. Yes. I moved to Washington 5 years ago, but I 
can't recollect the month. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have a place in the basement of your house 
that you referred to as a club cellar ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I had a basement, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you entertain people frequently in the base- 
ment of your cellar ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I think I refuse to answer this question. It may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was your home located at that time ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 851 

Mr. Pearlman. You mean before I moved to Washington ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Pearlman. 2400 Liberty Heights. 

Mr. Tavenner. 2400 Liberty Heights? 

Mr. Pearlman. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I want to ask you if the following people met at 
your home, in the club cellar of your home at 2400 Liberty Heights, 
Baltimore, on May 4, 1946 : Belle'Hancoff ? 

Suppose you answer to each one. State whether or not Belle Han- 
coff was in your home at that time, if you can recall. 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer that question. It might tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Morris Hancoff? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Louis Pearlman ? Your name is Louis Pearlman ? 

Mr. Pearlman. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Albert Pearlman. 

Mr. Pearlman. Albert Pearlman is my son. 

Mr. Tavenner. He is your son. Was he present in the club cellar 
at the time the gathering took place ? 

Mr. Pearlman. He was present in my home all the time since he 
came from service. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he there at a meeting of any kind in the club 
cellar on May 4, 1946? 

Mr, Pearlman. I refuse to answer that question. It might tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Dotle. Do you stand behind your constitutional privilege in 
regard to your son also ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I stand behind my constitutional privilege; yes, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Albert Blank ? ^ 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer this question. It might tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Lillian Levine? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer the question for the same reason. 

Mr. Ta\t]:nner. Rosanna Kaplan, K-a-p-1-a-n? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer this question also for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Julia Levine? 

Mr. Pearlman, I refuse to answer this question for the same reason. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Rose Shenk, S-h-e-n-k? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer this question for the same reason, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Betty Kaufman, K-a-u-f-m-a-n? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer this question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Rae Barshak, R-a-e B-a-r-s-h-a-k ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer this question for the same reason, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Hy Barshak, H-y ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer this question for the same reason, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dorothy Rose Blumberg? 



* Protested hearings ; gave address as 4105 Springdale Avenue. 



852 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Pearoian. I refuse to answer this question for the same reason, 
sir. 

Mr, Tavenner. Dr. Albert Blumberg? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer the question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. William Pearlman? 

Mr. Pearlman (after consulting with his counsel). William Pearl- 
man is my son. He doesn't live with me. 

Mr. Taahenner. I am not asking you whether these people live with 
you. I am asking you whether they were in your club cellar on Sat- 
urday, May 4, 1946. 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Phil Frankfeld ? 

Mr. FoRER. How big was that cellar ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer the question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. The question has been suggested : How large is your 
club cellar? How large is it? 

Mr. FoRER. How large was it ? 

Mr. Tavenner, I assume it is the same dimensions now as then. 

Mr. Pearlman. About this size [indicating]. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Would it hold the number of people I have named ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer this question. It might tend 
to incriminate me. I won't answer something that I am not sure. 

Mr. Tauten ner. Jean Frankfeld ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer, sir, for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Joseph Levine ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer that for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of lodge 215, International 
Workers' Order? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer this question. It might tend 
to incriminate me, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know any of the officers of the International 
Workers' Order, that is, of the State council of the order ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer this question, sir. It might tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at one time a member of the city central 
committee of the International Workers' Order ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer this question, sir. It might tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Or were you a delegate to that council ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer this question for the same reason, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Pearlman, the committee has information that 
there was issued to you Communist Party Book No. 58703 by the Com- 
munist Party of the city of Baltimore for the year 1946. Is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Pearlman, I refuse to answer this question, sir. It might tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now or have you ever been a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Pearlman. I refuse to answer this question for the same reason,, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 



COAIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 853 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. No. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney? 

Mr. Kearney. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be ex- 
cused from further attendance on the committee ? 

Mr. TA^^NNER. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. You may be excused. 

Mr. Pearlman". Thank you. 

(Testimony of the next witness, Oscar Roberts, is printed in another 
volume under same title, pt. 3. The hearing then continued with 
testimony of Peter Edward Forrest. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Mr. Peter Forrest. 

Mr. Wood. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn? 

Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you give this subcommittee 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Forrest. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. 

Mr. Braverman. Mr. Chairman, I wisli the record to show that we 
are proceeding under protest, due to the absence of a quorum. 

Mr. Wood. For the purpose of hearing this witness, let the record 
show that the chairman of the committee has set up a subcommittee 
composed of Messrs. Walter, Doyle, Kearney, and Wood. We are all 
present. 

TESTIMONY OF PETER EDWARD FORREST, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, MAURICE BRAVERMAN 

Mr. Tavenner. State your full name, please? 

Mr. Forrest. Peter Edward Forrest. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. Forrest. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Braverman. Maurice Braverman, 119 West Mulberry Street, 
Baltimore, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Forrest? 

Mr. Forrest. Mathews, Va., May 22, 1900. 

Mr. Tavenner. What educational training have you had? 

Mr. Forrest. Finished public school, or free school. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Forrest. 2322 Etting Street, Baltimore, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Baltimore? 

Mr. Forrest. Thirty-one years. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you now employed in Baltimore? 

Mr. Forrest. In the copper industry. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. What is the name of your employer? 

Mr. Forrest. American Smelting & Refining Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you worked for the American 
Smelti?ig and Refining Co. ? 

Mr. Forrest. Twelve years. 

Mr. Tavi-:nner. What js the nature of your duties, or your work? 

Mr. Forrest. Cement finisher. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Do you presently hold an office in Local 625 of the 
Mine, Mill & Smelter Workers Union ? 



S54: COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Forrest. I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever held an office in that union ? 

Mr. Forrest. I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. What office was that? 

Mr. Forrest. Vice president. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien were you vice president? 

Mr. Forrest. In 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you held any other office in that union ? 

Mr. Forrest. I was trustee in 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. In addition to those two offices, have you held any 
other ? 

Mr. Forrest. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. The Mine, Mill & Smelter Workers Union, that 
is, the international organization with which your local 625 is affiliat- 
•ed, has been expelled from the CIO as an organization which fol- 
lows the Communist Party line. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Forrest. I refuse to answer that question on grounds that it 
may tend to incriminate me later. 

Mr. Tavenner. It has been expelled from the CIO, has it not? 

Mr. Forrest. I still refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that it may incriminate me later. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Walter McManamon ? 

Mr. Forrest. For the same reason I refuse to answer that question, 
on the grounds that it may incriminate me, 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names of the other officers of 
jour local at that time you were vice president in 1948 ? 

Mr. Forrest. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it may incriminate me later. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of a letter from 
Dorothy Rose Blumberg, secretary-treasurer of the Communist Party 
of the State of Maryland and the District of Columbia, dated February 
25, 1946, and I will ask you to look at it. 

In this letter which you have before you, you will note that Mrs. 
Blumberg announced that there would be an enlarged session of the 
regular clistrict committee meeting. 

Did you receive a copy of that letter ? 

Mr. Forrest. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
whatever answer I give may incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. The letter refers to and invites attendance at a meet- 
ing to be held on March 3, 1946. Did you attend that meeting? 

Mr. Forrest. For the same reason I refuse to answer that ques- 
tion, on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you working for the American Smelting & 
Eefining Co. at Baltimore in February 1946, the date of that letter? 

Mr. Forrest. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether or not there 
was a Communist Party cell at that time, in 1946, among the em- 
ployees of the American Smelting & Refining Co. ? 

Mr. Forrest. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it may tend to incriminate me, 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Forrest. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it 
may tend to incriminate me. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 855 

Mr. Tavenner, I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Any questions, Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. No. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. No. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney? 

Mr. Kearney. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why this witness should not be ex- 
cused from further attendance on the committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. That is all. You are excused. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Wood. Does this conclude the program for examination of 
witnesses this afternoon? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. I ask the members of the subcommittee to meet with me 
in chambers for executive session immediately after the recess. 

Until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning, the committee stands in recess. 

(Thereupon, at 3 : 05 p. m. on Tuesday, June 26, 1951, an adjourn- 
ment was taken until Wednesday, June 27, 1951, at 10 a. m.) 



J 
f. 

I'  

'.■"1 



HEARINGS KELATING TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN 
THE DEFENSE AREA OF BALTIMORE— PART 1 

(Based on Testimony of Mary Stalcup Markward) 



WEDNESDAY, JUNE 27, 1951 

United States House of Representatives, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. 0. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met pursuant to ad- 
journment at 10 : 50 a. m. in room 226, Old House Office Building, 
Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Eepresentatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man), Bernard W. Kearney, Donald L. Jackson, and Charles E. 
Potter (appearance as noted in transcript). 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Donald T. 
Appell, investigator ; Raphael I. Nixon, director of research ; John W. 
Carrington, clerk; and A. S. Poore, editor. 

li'Ir. Wood. The committee will be in order. 

Whom do you have, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Mr. Aaron Ostrofsky. 

Mr. Wood. For the purposes of hearing this witness, let the record 
disclose that, acting under the authority vested in me as chairman of 
this committee, I have set up a subcommittee composed of Messrs. 
Kearney, Jackson, and Wood. We are all present. 

Mr. DuBOw. We would like the record to show we are proceeding 
under protest because there is not a quorum of the full committee. 

Mr. Wood. The record will so show. 

Mr. Ostrofsky, do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this 
subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. 

TESTIMONY OF AARON OSTROFSKY, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, MITCHELL A. DUBOW 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your full name, please ? 
Mr. Ostrofsky. Aaron Ostrofsky. 
Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel ? 
Mr. Ostrofsky. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 
Mr. DuBow. Mitchell A. Dubow, 213 Tower Building, Balti- 
more, Md. 

857 



858 coMMxnsriST activities in Baltimore defeostse area 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ostrof sky, when and where were you born ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKT. I was born in Rumania, December 6, 1919. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you speak a little louder, please. 

Mr. Wood. We can't hear you up here, so if you would elevate your 
voice we would appreciate it. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to the United States ? 

Mr. OsTRorsKY. I came when I was about 11 months old, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized citizen ? 

Mr. OsTRorsKY. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you naturalized ? 

Mr. OsTRorsKY. I have derivative citizenship under my father's 
papers. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was your father naturalized? 

Mr. OsTRorsKY. I wouldn't remember the exact date, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Approximately? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. It must have been in the thirties, I figure. 

Mr. Wood. We still can't hear you. 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I say it must have been in the 1930's. I don't know 
the exact date. 

Mr. Ta\tsnner. Will you give the committee a brief statement of 
your educational training? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I went to public school, junior high and high school, 
and took some courses in an evening college. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you attend high school ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. And where did you attend college ? 

Mr. OsTRorsKY. Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVliat was the name of the college ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. Brooklyn Evening College. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you now employed? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I am employed as a welder in the Bethlehem 
Steel Co. 

Mr. TA^^l;NNER. Where do you presently reside ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. 3438 Auchentoroly Terrace, A-u-c-h-e-n-t-o-r-o-l-y. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Baltimore? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you resided in Baltimore ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. Approximately 10 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time where did you live ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I lived in New York City; Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. Tavenner. Before coming to Baltimore, how were you em- 
ployed ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. The period immediately prior to coming to Balti- 
more, I was unemployed. 

Mr. Tavenner. While living in Brooklyn before coming to Balti- 
more, where were you employed ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I had odd jobs, they didn't last long*, temporary 
jobs. I was mostly employed doing hat work, men's hats. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. When you came to Baltimore, where were you first 
employed ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. As a welder in the shipyards. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the Fairfield plant of the Bethlehem Steel 
Corp.? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 859 

Mr. OsTRorsKY. I worked there and I worked at the Maryland Dry- 
dock Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliich phnce did yon work first? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I believe Maryland Drydock. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. And you began working tliere abont when? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I believe it was in May of 1940 or 1941. I think 
it was 1941. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. And how long did you work in that position ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I worked in that plant approximately 3 months. 

Mr. Tavenner. And then how were yon employed at the end of 
that time? How were you employed after that? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. After that I went to the Bethlehem Shipyard. 

Mr. Wood. I wish you would try to remember that we are some dis- 
tance away from you, and elevate your voice, please. 

Mr. TA^'^NNER. You then became employed at the Fairfield Ship- 
yard of the Bethlehem Steel Corp. sometime in 1941 ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. And how long did you continue to work there? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I worked there until approximately 1944, and then 
I went into the service in May 1944, and while in the service I received 
the Purple Heart, Combat Infantry Badge, and after I came out, in 
1945 I believe, I went back to the shipyard again. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you go back to the same position that you held 
-when you went in the service ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. That is right, a welder's position. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. That of a welder ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you still hold the same position ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I am still a welder. 

Mr. Tavenner. Maj^be I misunderstood you. Did you go back to 
the shipbuilding branch of the Bethlehem Steel Corp. when you came 
back from the service ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I went back to the same place I was in before I went 
in the service, the same location and same place. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you work there ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I worked there until the final date that the place 
■existed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you remember when that was ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I believe Bethlehem Fairfield Shipyard closed in 
November 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. And since November 1946 how have you been em- 
ployed ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. Then I was unemployed for a while; then I got 
a job at the Bethlehem Steel Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. At what plant of the company ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. Sparrows Point. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere you are now employed ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. Where I ajn now employed. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Wliat is the general nature of your work at Spar- 
rows Point ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. The welder's duties are to fabricate pieces of metal 
together, and anything that breaks in the plant, to fix it up im- 
mediately so that the plant can operate. 

Mr. Tavenner. The normal duties of a welder ? 



860 coMMxnsjisT activities m Baltimore defense area 

Mr. OsTRorsKY. The normal duties of a welder and burner. 

Mr. Tavenner. From your statement of your work, it is apparent 
that in 1943 you were working at the Fairfield plant of the Bethlehem 
Steel Corp.? 

Mr. OsTRorsKY. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to a paper known as the Fairfield Yard- 
bird, there was an election of officers of local 43 in that year, and the 
photographs of candidates for the various offices appear in the July 17, 
1943, issue of that paper. Also, the issue of July 14, 1944, of the 
Fairfield Yardbird contains photographs of candidates for various, 
offices in the election in that year. 

I hand you first the issue of July 14, 1944, and I will ask if you see 
there the photograph of Harold Tyree, "candidate for vice president ; 
chairman of the second shift at Fairfield ; shop steward of burners ; 
chairman of organizing committee" of the local. Do you see the 
photograph ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. Yes, I see the photograph. 

Mr. Tavenner. Please speak a little louder. Do you see the photo- 
graph ? 

Mr. DuBOw. Yes, there is a photograph with the name. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not asking you. I am asking the witness. 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I see the photograph. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Do you know Harold Tyree ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are unwilling to identify Harold Tyree as a 
candidate for office in local 43 of the Marine Shipbuilding Workers 
Union ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will ask you to examine the paper again and see 
if you see the photograph of Leon Bessowitz. It is in the lower left- 
hand corner, I believe, on the front page. 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I see the photograph. 

Mr. Tavenner. What position was he a candidate for, according 
to the paper ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. You want me to read it to you ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Ostrofsky (reading) : 

Organizer of Hopeman employees; member of local 43 25 months; elected 
steward in 1942 ; reelected in 1943 and 1944 ; one of the negotiators of all union 
shops and recent negotiation on Hopeman contract ; delegate to national lUMSWA 
convention and State CIO convention ; day-shift chairman. Trustee of local 43 — 
CIO." 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a candidate for election as trustee of the 
union at that time, according to the newspaper ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. Can I read it again? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I just read it, but I didn't study it. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Ostrofsky. According to the newspaper, it says he is a candi- 
date for trustee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he known to you to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 861 

Mr. OsTRorsKY. I refuse to answer the question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you see the photograph of Wliitey Goodf riend ? 

Mr. OsTRorsKY. Yes, I see it. 

Mr, Tavenner. Will you give us a description, according to the 
newspaper, of his record and what position he was candidate for? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. According to the newspaper, it says : 

For trustees, vote for two only. He is a charter member and former oflBcer of 
the local ; he is also a veteran of this war, having been in the invasion of Sicily^ 
and Salerno, Italy. Twice been torpedoed as a merchant seaman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not Mr. Goodfriend was a 
member of the district committee of the Communist Party? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

(Representative Charles E. Potter entered hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you now the issue of July 17, 1943, of the 
Fairfield Yardbird, to which I referred, and ask you to identify the 
photograph appearing in the upper right-hand corner. 

Mr. Ostrofsky (after conferring with his counsel). According to 
the newspaper here, the caption is Aaron Ostrofsky under the photo- 
graph. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that your name ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. My name ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ostrofsky (after conferring with his counsel). That is my 
name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that your photograph ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky (after conferring with his counsel). Yes, that is my 
photograph. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the office that the paper recites you were a 
candidate for ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. According to the newspapers, it says : 

Transferred from local 31, shop steward of welders — 

I am sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. I want you to read that too, so go ahead. 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I misunderstood your question. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all right. 

Mr. Ostrofsky (continuing reading) : 

Shop committeeman ; member of Victory production committee ; delegate to 
Baltimore Industrial Union Council, CIO. Also, member of United Electrical, 
Radio, and Machine Workers of America, CIO. 

Mr. Tavenner. And what office does the newspaper state you were 
a candidate for ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. The newspaper says, "Candidates for grievance 
committee. Seven to be elected." 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a candidate for that office, the grievance 
committee ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I notice the paper says you were transferred from 
local 31. Where was local 31? In what company was local 31 organ- 
ized and operating as the agent ? 



862 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't it organized in the Maryland Prydock Co. ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I notice according to the paper that you were a 
delegate to the Baltimore Industrial Union Council, CIO. Who were 
the officers of that council at that time, do you recall ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that it may tend to incriminate me. I might further add 1;hat it 
looks to me, from what I have seen yesterday and the proceedings now, 
it looks as if you are prosecuting people. 

Mr. Tavenner. No; this committee has nothing to do with prosecu- 
tion, but this committee is charged with the responsibility of finding 
out and determining the extent of un-American activities. That is 
the purpose of our investigation, and we would like for you to cooper- 
ate with the committee and tell it all you know about the organization 
of the Communist Party in connection with any group you were 
associated with, whether that be in a union or some group established 
for some other purpose, or regardless of your association in any union 
or other group. Are you willing to give tlie committee the information 
that you have ? That is what we are seeking. 

Mr. OsTROFSKY ( after conferring with his counsel ) . Will you break 
that question down for me ^ I don't understand the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. My question to you is this : Having stated, as you 
did, that you thought the purpose of this committee was to prosecute 
somebody, and having advised you that that is not the purpose of this 
committee nor its function, but that the purpose of this committee is 
to find out all it can regarding un-American activities within any 
group that you may have been associated with, will you cooperate 
with the committee in furnishing it that information, such as you 
have? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. What I gave is an opinion. I think I have a right 
to my opinion from the proceedings I saw and the newspaper articles 
I read, and I followed them pretty closely. I think I have a right to 
my opinion, 

Mr. Jackson. To whom did you refer when you said you thought 
the committee was prosecuting ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY (after conferring with his counsel). I didn't refer 
to any particular individual. That was my opinion from what I saw 
yesterday and read in the newspapers. 

Mr. Jackson, Do you think you are being prosecuted when you are 
asked where local 31 was organized ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer the question on the ground that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to this same issue of the Fairfield Yard- 
bird, of July 17, 1943, you were a member of the United Electrical, 
Radio and Machine Workers of America, CIO. Where were you 
worlving at the time that you were a member of that organization 'I 

Mr. OsTROFSKY, I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ostrofsky, the committee, in the course of its 
investigations, has found that 34 men who are identified in the fight 
against communism in local 43 were expelled for life from that local 



COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 863 

union. That expulsion, as we understand, was allejied to have been 
for disrupting- the war effort and the affairs of local 48. Did you have 
any part to play in the expulsion of those 34 members from your local ? 

JNIr. OsTRorsKY. Did you say local 43 ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

]Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. If it be true that the Communist Party, through 
infiltration, was in control of local 43, and expelled various persons 
with whom it was in disagreement, what would be the effect upon the 
ability of those i)ersons so expellecl to again seek union cards, do you 
know? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. Did you again mention the union in that question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; I mentioned the union. 

JVfr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you this: When a person is expelled 
from a union such as local 43, what are the regulations about his again 
joining the union ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the action that was taken in local 43 to expel the 
34 men to whom I referred, did you confer with any members of the 
Communist Party with regard to that action prior to the action being 
taken ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. Did you again mention local 43 in that question? 

Mr. Tavenner. Oh, yes ; local 43. 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did other members of your union, that is, local 43, 
confer with members of the Communist Party prior to the taking 
of that action in the expulsion of the 34 men ? 

Mr, OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you learn through any source that there ex- 
isted at the Fairfield Yard of the Bethlehem Shipbuilding Corp. a 
Communist cell or group, organized among the employees at that 
plant? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that it may tend to incriminate me. 

]\Ir. Ta\'enner. Are you acquainted with Walter McManamon? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question' on the same 
grounds, 

Mr. Tavenner, I refer you again to the July 14, 1944, issue of the 
Fairfield Yardbird, and ask you if you see there the photograph of 
Walter McManamon ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. According to the caption in the newspaper — do 
you want me to read the entire thing ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, j ust read that, 

Mr, Ostrofsky. According to the caption next to the picture, it 
says : 

Walter McManamon. Business agent of local 43 for the past year ; former 
second-shift chairman ; former shop steward of the welders ; treasurer of BaltL- 

86629— 51— pt. 1—^9 



864 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

more Industrial Union Council ; member of organizing committee ; member of the 
charter a(iivisoi*y committee of the city of Baltimore ; past delegate to National 
lUMSWA convention and State CIO convention ; leader of the opposition to AFL 
raiders ; background of 11 years in labor movement. 

(Representative Charles E. Potter left hearing room.) 

Mr, Kearney. Is that the same person who on the stand the other 
day admitted he had been indicted for murder in Chicago? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you know any of the persons whose pictures ap- 
pear in the copy of the newspaper you hold in your hand? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. Are you familiar with the publication you hold in 
your hand ? 

Mr, OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you know whether or not any publication of that 
sort was published in the shipyard during the time you were em- 
ployed there ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. Because of a call of the House, we will have to suspend 
until 1 o'clock this afternoon. 

Mr. ScRiBNER (David). Mr. Chairman, I wonder if I could make 
an application on behalf of one of the witnesses here ? 

Mr. Wood. Not now, because this is the second bell. We have to go. 

(Thereupon, at 11 : 15 a. m., a recess was taken until 1 p. m. of the 
same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

Mr. Wood. Let the record show that there are present the following 
members of the committee: Messrs. Doyle, Kearney, Jackson, and 
Wood, constituting the full membership of the subcommittee ap- 
pointed this morning. 

Mr. DuBOw. I would like the record to show that we renew our 
objection to proceeding in the absence of a quorum of the full 
committee. 

Mr. Wood. The record already so shows. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. ^ 

TESTIMONY OF AARON OSTEOFSKY— Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. My last question to you related to Walter McMana- 
mon. You looked at the July 14, 1944, issue of the Fairfield Yard- 
bird, and I was asking you a question as to what material appeared in 
the newspaper opposite his photograph. Will you examine the 
photograph and material opposite it in the paper again and state 
for what position Mr. McSlanamon was a candidate during that 
election ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. According to the caption it says, "For Business 
Agent Vote for One." 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the date when the 34 men were- 
expelled from local union 43? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 865 

Mr. OsTROFSKT (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to 
answer that question on the ground that it may tend to incriminate 

me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to call before the committee the two 
gentlemen sitting riglit on our left. Will you two gentlemen come 
up here? 

If you will stand back a moment and you will come forward. 

( One of the two persons referred to came forward.) 

Mr. Ta\i-:nner. Mr. Ostrofsky, you see the gentleman just to my 
left. Was he one of the 34 men expelled from local 43 because he was 
anti-Communist ? 

INIr. OsTHOFSKT. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know this gentleman ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of the local with you? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now I would like to ask the gentleman to be sworn 
by the chairman and state his name. That is all I will ask him. 

' Mr. Wood. Hold up your right hand, please. Do you solemnly 
swear the testimony you give this subcommittee shall be the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Shriner. So help me, God. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, sir? 

Mr. Shriner. George D. Shriner. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

Will the other gentleman come forward, please ? 

(The person referred to came forward.) 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Mr. Ostrofsky, do you see the gentleman standing 
immediately to my left? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. Yes ; I see him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he one of the 34 who were discharged from your 
local 43 because of his anti-Communist activities? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know this gentleman ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever seen him before ? 

Mr. Ostrofsky. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like for this gentleman to be sworn, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Hold up your right hand, please, sir. 

Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this subcommittee 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? . , 

Mr. Connolly. I do, sir. 

Mr. Ta\t3nner. "Wliat is your name, please? 

Mr. Connolly. Francis J. Connolly. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Any questions, Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. No. 



866 COMATUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney ? 

Mr. Kearney. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. You were in the service, you stated ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. When did you enter the service? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I believe the correct date is May 17, 1944. 

Mr. Jackson. When were you mustered out of service ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I believe the date was November 12, 1945. 

Mr. Jackson. Where did you see service ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. In France and in Germany. 

Mr. Jackson. What was your rank ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. You mean when I entered ? 

Mr. Jackson. When you left the service. 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. Pfc. 

Mr. Jackson. Are you at present in the active or inactive Reserve ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. No ; I am not. 

Mr. Jackson. Were any members ever expelled from any union or 
organization of which you have been a member ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. Will you repeat that question, sir? 

Mr. Jackson. Were any members ever expelled from any union of 
which you have been a member, for any reason? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. Are you presently a member of any union ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Jackson. Is it possible to work where you are presently em- 
ployed without being a member of a union ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY (after conferring with his counsel). It is. 

Mr. Jackson. It is possible to work there without being a member 
of a union ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Is it possible to be a welder without being a member 
of a union ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. It is. 

Mr. Jackson. Have you ever voted for officers in any union of 
which you have been a member ? 

Mr. OsTROFSKY. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason, Mr. Counsel, why this witness 
should not be excused from further attendance on this subcommittee? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. So ordered. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Wood. Before the recess some gentleman, I believe counsel for 
one of the witnesses, asked for permission to make some comment. 
I am sorry I had to delay you. I will be glad to hear you now. 

Mr. David Scribner. Thank you very much. 

I represent Mr. Herbert Nichol, who was subpenaed for appearance 
today. 

Mr. Nichol was served with the subpena night before last, to appear 
this morning, and that comes exactly 48 hours before a major union 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 867 

election to be conducted by the Government among employees of the 
Lock Corp. in Baltimore. 

My application is to recess or adjourn the examination of Mr. 
Nichol until after this week, since the election is scheduled for Friday. 

The reason I make this application is that it would appear, were 
there not an adjournment, that there would be some reason, other 
than merely to get information from this witness within the scope of 
the powers of this committee, for calling him. In other words, it 
would appear that the subpenaing and calling of Mr. Nichol is in 
some way connected with the election. 

Mr. Wood, Appears to whom ? 

Mr. ScRiBNER. I say it would appear. 

Mr. Wood. To whom ? 

Mr. ScRiBNER. It certainly would appear to us, because we have had 
some experience along this line in connection with an East Pittsburgh 
plant, 

Mr, Wood. Is that the ground on which you are asking for a con- 
tinuance ? 

Mr. ScRiBJ^EE. All I am saying is that in the light of the campaign 
going on right now among employees of the Lock Corp., leading up 
to an election to be conducted by the Government on Friday, any evi- 
dence which would necessarily relate to the election, and which would 
be used for campaign purposes would make it wholly unwarranted for 
the hearing to be held at this time. 

We respectfully ask that it be adjourned until any time next week, 
or any time after this week set by the committee. 

Mr. Wood. I am not sure I understand what you mean by saying 
that the testimony of this witness would influence the election. 

Mr. ScRiBNER, We had an election in East Pittsburgh some time 
ago, and witnesses were called before this committee just about a week 
before this election. Conflicting groups were called down here just 
before the election, and those conflicting groups were able to air the 
matters of immediate and primary concern to the employees. 

We feel any interference from any outside agency is wholly unwar- 
ranted, and certainly this committee would not want to be in a position 
where that could even be intimated. 

We ask that the matter be adjourned. I had no opportunity to see 
the witness until this morning. I only knew about it yesterday. Yes- 
terday I sent a telegram to you and to Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Wood. I have the telegram. It will be filed with the committee. 

Mr. ScRiBNER. May I read it into the record ? 

Mr. Wood. It is not the policy of the committee to incorporate such 
communications in the record. The telegram is here, and it is before 
the committee. 

Mr. ScKiBNER. It is part of my application. 

Mr. Wood. I will say to the gentleman that this investigation has 
been under way since considerably prior to the time the date of this 
election was fixed by the board, and Mr. Nichol was on the agenda to 
be called as a witness. I signed a subpena for Mr. Nichol more than 
2 weeks ago. For reasons perhaps better known to him, the staff was 
unable to serve him prior to the time he was actually served. I have 
no way of knowing what his testimony would be before this committee, 
or what position he would take in connection with the questions to be 



868 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

asked of him, but there is no disposition on the part of this committee 
to enter into any investigation for the purpose of influencing any 
election. 

I ca_n't, for the life of me, see how it would influence an election for 
the witness to be called on to give testimony on what he knows, if 
anything, about subversive influences in defense plants, or in labor 
unions connected with defense plants, which is the purpose of this 
investigation. 

However, I will be glad to submit your request to the committee 
sometime in the afternoon in executive session. 

Mr. ScRiBNER. Certainly there would be no harm whatsoever done 
if the witness were to appear at some time other than this week before 
the committee. The witness has been constantly available. He has 
been in touch, on almost a daily basis, with the National Labor Eela- 
tions Board. He has been at the plant. He has a young baby and 
has been at home much of the time. He has been at his ofiice. We find 
it curious that only 3 or 4 days before the election, which is one of 
considerable consequences, he should be called. 

On the other hand, not assigning any motives whatsoever, if the 
witness' appearance were put over until next week, no harm would be 
done. The committee is certainly going to continue this investigation 
for some time. In my wire to the committee I stated I would be 
responsible for the witness' appearance. I have appeared before this 
committee many times and, as Mr. Tavenner knows, I have appeared 
before the courts many times and we should be able to work out these 
matters cooperatively. 

Mr. Wood. Is it your thought that the testimony of this witness 
would be detrimental to any group connected with this election ? 

Mr. ScRiBNER. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Did you say "No, sir" to the question ? 

Mr. ScRiBNER. I would like to answer it this way : The mere fact 
that a witness is called before this committee regarding a collective 
bargaining election immediately has an impact one way or another. 
You people know, as people who have been in election campaigns, 
what is involved, no matter what the motives may be. 

Mr. Wood. Now, will you answer my question ? 

Mr. ScRiBNER. I think I did. 

Mr. Wood. I think it can be answered directly. The question I 
asked you was. Is it your thought that the testimony the witness 
would give before this committee would be detrimental to any group 
connected with this election ? 

Mr. ScRiBNER. Sir, I have absolutely no information whatsoever as 
to what his testimony would be. All I am saying is that we are aware 
that appearance before your committee just before an election, regard- 
less of what the testimony is, does have an impact and we would like 
to have a secret-ballot election without outside interference. 

I respectfully request that the examination of Mr. Nichol before this 
committee be put over until after Friday. 

Mr. Wood. I will submit your request to the committee in executive 
session, but I want the record to show that the appearance of a witness 
before this committee at any time, or any action that this committee 
may take with reference to a witness appearing before it, ought not, 
and is not intended, to influence any election. 



i 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 869 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Scribner, will you identify yourself for the 
record, please ? 

Mr. Scribner. David Scribner, 11 East Fifty-first Street, New- 
York City. 

(Testimony of the next witness, Sam Schmerler, is printed in an- 
other volume under same title, Part 3.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Irving Kandel. 

Mr. Wood. Let the record disclose that there is a quorum of the 
full committee present, consisting of Messrs. Walter, Doyle, Kearney, 
Jackson, and Wood. 

Will you raise your right hand, please ? 

Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this committee shall 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Kandel. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF IRVING KANDEL, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

HAROLD BTJCHMAN 

Mr. Tavenner. State your full name, please ? 

Mr. Kandel. Irving Kandel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Kandel. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. BucHMAN. Harold Buchman, 213 Tower Building, Baltimore, 
Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Kandel ? 

Mr. Kandel. June 14, 1912, New York' City. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly to the committee what your 
educational training has been ? 

Mr. Kandel. Elementary school gi^aduate; high school graduate; 
night school in college ; and some trade school. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you presently reside? 

Mr. Kandel. 2436 Linden Avenue, Baltimore, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Baltimore ? 

Mr. Kandel. Approximately 15 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that where did you live? 

Mr. Kandel. In New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you now employed ? 

Mr. Kandel. As a machinist. 

Mr. Tavenner. By whom are you employed? 

Mr. ILvNDEL. By Dykman, 3931 Falls Koad, Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell it? 

Mr. Kandel. I spell it D-y-k-m-a-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you worked there? 

Mr. Kandel. Approximately 6 months. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that where were you employed? 

Mr. Kandel. Jack's Brass Novelty Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you work there ? 

Mr. Kandel. Roughly 2 to 3 months. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Prior to that wliere were you employed ? 

Mr. Kandel. At the Carton Machinery Co. 



870 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA j 

Mr. Tavenner. And how long did you work at the Carton Machin- ' 

ery Co. j 

Mr. Kandel. About a month, ; 
Mr. Ta^tsnner. Prior to that where were you employed ? 
Mr. Kandel. Baltimore Bloom Machinery Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you employed there ? ; 
Mr. Kandel. Approximately 6 months. 

Mr. Taa^nner. And prior to that how were you employed ? i 

Mr. Kandel. As a machinist. j 

Mr. Tavenner. Where? j 

Mr. Kandel. Diecraft Co. ! 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you work for that company ? | 

Mr. Kandel. One day.  
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that where were you employed? 

Mr. Kandel. Glenn L. Martin Co. i 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you work for Glenn L. Martin Co. ? i 

Mr. Kandel. About 7 weeks. | 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your employment there? i 

Mr. Kandel. A machinist.  

Mr. Tavenner. When did your employment begin, about what date ? ' 

Mr. Kandel. Well, I believe it was in the early summer of 1949. \ 

However, I would have to think back to make a more exact approxi- j 

mation. I 
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you work there ? 

Mr. Kandel. About 7 weeks. ! 
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that how were you employed? 

Mr. Kandel. As a machinist. ^ | 

Mr. Tavenner. Where ? ' 
Mr. Kandel. The Bendix-Friez Corp. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your employment with ' 

that company ? ! 

Mr. Kandel. I was a machinist. | 

Mr. Tavenner. And how long were you employed there ?  

Mr. Kandel. Approximately a year. i 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that how were you employed ? i 

Mr. Kandel. As a machinist. I 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Where ? ; 
Mr. Kandel. I believe it was the National Enamel Stamping Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you employed there ? i 

Mr. Kandel. Approximately 2 to 3 months. i 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that where were you employed? j 

Mr. Kandel. Zimco, Inc. i 
Mr. Tavenner. And prior to that where were you employed ? 

Mr. Kandel. Crown Cork & Seal. ' 
Mr. Tavenner. Then tell us by whom you were employed before 

you were employed there. i 

Mr. Kandkl. Please state your question in question form. : 

Mr. Tavenner. Will the reporter read the question.  

( The question referred to was read by the reporter. )  

Mr. Tavenner. Do you understand it ? j 
Mr. Kandel. Not very well. 

Mr. Tavenner. By whom were you employed prior to the last em- i 

ployment you have mentioned ? t 

Mr. Kandei,. Bank Machine Co. J 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 871 

Mr. Tavenner. And prior to that where were you employed? 

Mr. Kandel, I was in the service in the United States Navy. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you enter the service ? 

Mr. Kandel. In the early part of 1944. 

Mr. Tavenner. And when were you discharged ? 

Mr. Kandel, In the early part of 1946. 

Mr. TavepTner. Prior to your entry in the service, how were you 
employed ? 

Mr. Kandel. As a machinist. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Where ? 

Mr, Kandel. At the Bank Machine Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. And prior to that where were you employed? 

Mr. Kandel. Murrill Keyser Co. 

Mr. Kearney. How long did he work there ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you understand the question? 

Mr. Kandel. Was it addressed to me? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Kandel. I worked there approximately a year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did the employment begin at that place, 
approximately ? 

Mr. Kandel. It was in the vicinity of 1943, but without checking 
back I can't give you the exact date. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is close enough. Prior to 1943 how were you 
employed ? 

Mr. Kandel. If you mean prior to the Murill Keyser Co., I was 
employed by William G. Cost. 

Mr. Tavenner. And prior to that employment how were you 
employed ? 

Mr. Kandel. As a machinist. ', 

Mr. Tavenner, Where? f 

Mr, Kandel. Bartlett-Heywood. | 

Mr. Tavenner. Are all of these places in Baltimore ? { 

Mr. Kandel. With a few exceptions they were all within Baltimore 

City- 

Mr. Ta'^^nner. Were the others in the general vicinity of Baltimore ? j: 

Mr. Kandel. That is right. ', 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to the last employment you mentioned, how '}, 

were you employed ? I' 

Mr. Kandel. As a clerk. . s 
Mr. Tavenner. Where? 

Mr. Kandel. Social Security Board, Baltimore, Md. '., 

Mr. Tavenner. When did your employment begin with the Social § 

Security Board ? h 

Mr, Kandel. Approximately the latter part of 1936. 'I 

Mr. Tavenner. And how long did it continue ? | 
Mr. Kandel. Until, as closely as I can remember, the latter part 

of 1942. 

Mr, Tavenner, While you were employed by the Social Security ,: 

Board, did you hold an office in local 17 of the United Federal • 

Workers ? 'f, 

Mr. Kandel. I did. ';] 

Mr, Tavenner, Wliat office was that? ,<i 

Mr. Kandel. I held a number of different offices at different times. ] 
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state what they were, please? 



872 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Kandel. To the best of my recollection I was treasurer oi the 
organization at one time ; I was vice president of the organization at 
another time; and I have the impression, though I don't remember 
exactly, that I may have held a post on the executive board, or some 
responsibility in the union, 

(Representative James B. Frazier, Jr., entered hearing room.) 

Mr. Ta\^nner. While you were employed by the Social Security 
Board in Baltimore, was Mr. Herbert J. Nichol also employed by the 
same board ? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time you were a member of local IT, was 
Mr. Daniel P. Atwood president of the local at any time? 

Mr. Kandel,. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. A. Kotelchuck, K-o-t-e-l-c-h-u-c-k, a mem- 
ber of the executive board at the time you were vice president of the 
local? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner, Was Mr. Rudolph Hindin a member of the executive 
board at the time you were vice president? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Milton Newman a member of the execu- 
tive board at the time you were vice president? 

Mr. Kandel, I refuse to answer that question on the ground that it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kandel, you referred to the fact that you served 
in the Navy between 1944 and 1946. After your return, it appears 
from the November 1, 1948, issue of the Daily Worker that you, identi- 
fied as a Navy veteran, demanded the dismissal of the indictments of 
the original 12 Communist leaders in a letter sent to the President and 
to the Attorney General. 

Will you explain to the committee the circumstances under which 
your name was used in connection with that letter, and how the use 
of your name was obtained, if it was? 

Mr. Kandel. If it was ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Kandel (after conferring with his counsel). I really don't 
understand the question. It seems to be divided into a number of 
thoughts. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was your name used in connection with that letter 
with your permission ? 

Mr. E^ANDEL (after conferring with his counsel) . I refuse to answer 
that question on the ground that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. Would the witness have answered the question if it 
had been divided into 20 or 30 separate parts ? 

Mr. KANDEL. If you will divide it into 20 or 30 separate parts, I 
will then see if I will answer them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you permit your name to be used in connection 
with such a letter ? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that it 
may tend to incriminate me. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 873 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you consulted about the letter? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. So if we divided the question into 20 more parts, 
you still would not answer it ? 

Mr. Kandel. Is that a question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you see the letter in the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a subscriber to the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer the question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Other persons from Baltimore whose names appear 
in the telegram are as follows, and I will ask you to state whether you 
are acquainted with that individual, first, and then I may ask you 
other questions, depending upon your answer : William H. Wood. 

Mr. Kandel. You are now referring to an unidentified telegram, 
is that it? 

Mr. Tavenner. I api referring to the same telegram appearing in 
the Daily Worker, issue of November 1, 1948, sent to the President 
and to the Attorney General, in which you were identified as a Navy 
veteran demanding the dismissal of the indictments of the original 
12 Communist leaders. 

Mr. Kandel. You made reference to a letter, and now it is a tele- 
gram, is that it ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, I will correct that. It is the same letter. It is 
not a telegram. 

Mr. Kandel. And you have already referred to a letter in a pre- 
vious question? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, the one you wanted broken down into a num- 
ber of questions, which I did. 

Mr. Kandel. I see. Will you proceed with your question? 

Mr. Tavenner. This is another question based on the same letter. 
In this letter the names of the following persons in the vicinity of 
Baltimore were identified, along with yours, as demanding the dis- 
missal of the indictments. William H. Wood is one of them. Are you 
acquainted with William H. Wood? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Joseph Greenberg? 

Mr. Kandel. Are you still referring to the same letter ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer the question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr, Tavenner. William Blank? 

• Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer the question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Sam Fox? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr, Tavenner. Milton Seif? 



874 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. George N. Meyers? 

Mr. KIandel. I refuse to answer the question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Herbert Kransdorf? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Philip Frankfeld? 

Mr. Kandel. 1 refuse to answer that question on the ground it may- 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what position, if any, Philip Frank- 
feld held in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it may- 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kandel, during your employment at the 
Bendix-Friez plant, were you a member of local 109 of UE ? 

Mr. Kandel. If there was a union in that shop I was probably a 
member of it. I don't remember the name of the union. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you do remember you were a member of a local 
of UE, were you not? 

Mr. Kandel. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the approximate dates when youi 
were a member ? 

Mr. Kandel. I believe I started to work there sometime in 1949, in 
which case I would have joined the union about that time, whenever 
it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. And about how long were you a member? 

Mr. Kandel. Until I was laid off. 

Mr. Tavenner. About how long was that? 1 believe you told us-- 
you worked there about a year ? 

Mr. Kandel. Well, then, it would probably be a year less a few 
months. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold the position of treasurer of the local 
while you were there? 

Mr. Kandel. I believe I did. 

Mr. Jackson. Did the witness or did the witness not serve as treas- 
urer of the local ? 

Mr. I^NDEL. Well, I have think back. It was some time ago. To. 
the best of my recollection I did serve as treasurer of the union. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time your name came up for election to that 
position, did you not advise the president and several members of the 
local that you had never participated in union activities before and 
therefore you were reluctant to accept the nomination as treasurer? 

Mr. Kandel. To whom was I supposed to have said this? 

Mr. Ta\'enner. To the president and other members of the local. 

Mr. Kandel. Do you identify the individual you refer to? 

Mr. Ta%^nner. Yes. Mr. Laberto. 

Mr. Kandel. To the best of my knowledge and recollection I never- 
made any such statement. 

Mr. Tavenner. By that shall we infer that you just do not recall, 
or tliat it is not true ? 

Mr. Kandel. I do not understand that question. You speak of in- 
ferences. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 875 

Mr. Taat^nner. You state to the best of your recollection you do 
not recall making any such statement. By that do you mean you are 
uncertain whether you made such a statement, or that to the best of 
jour recollection you did not make it? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing) . Let me make another statement which 
may help to refresh your recollection. But first, I will let you try 
to recall. 

Mr. Kandel. Either way. 

Mr. Tavenner. Go ahead. 

Mr. Kandel. I cannot recall any such conversation with anyone. 
(After conferring with his counsel.) In a word, I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you remember endeavoring to conceal the fact 
that 3'on had prior exj^erience in union work ? 

Mr. Kandel (after conferring with his counsel). I don't remem- 
ber any such attempt. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall a desire or effort on your part to 
conceal the fact that you had had prior organizational experience of 
finy kind ? 

Mr. Kandel. It is impossible for me to comment on that question, 
beacuse I have no recollection of it at all. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Did you confer with Mr. Herbert J. Nichol, prior 
to your election as treasurer, with regard to your nomination ? 

Mr. I^vndel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Do you recall an occasion, about a month after the 
time when you were elected treasurer, that you accompanied Mr. La- 
berto and another individual in an automobile, the other individual 
being Mr. Herbert J. Nichol ? 

Mr. Kandel (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to an- 
swer that question on the ground it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. When I said "accompanied," I meant to add from 
a meeting of local 109 toward your residence. I don't suppose that 
adds any meaning to the question ? 

Mr. Kandel. Now, frankly, I don't understand what you mean. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. I am stating that according to the committee's in- 
formation you accompanied Mr. Laberto, president of your local, and 
Mr. Herbert J. Nichol, from the meeting place of local 109 and pro- 
ceeded in the direction of your residence. Do you recall the occasion ? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you, on the occasion that I referred to or at 
any other time approximately a month after you were elected treas- 
urer, deny to Mr. Laberto that you knew Herbert J. Nichol ? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have spoken about being employed by the 
Glenn L. Martin Co. in Baltimore. Do you recall the names of the 
references you gave when you were employed by that company? 

Mr. Kandel. (after conferring with his counsel). No, I don't re- 
member. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were they Sam Fox, Milton Seif, and Harold 
Eound? 

Mr. Kandel. I don't remember. 

86629— 51— pt. 1 10 



876 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know those three individuals? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever belong to the District Committee of 
the Communist Party for Maryland and the District of Columbia? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever make application for enrollment in 
a Communist Party training course ? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time you were employed by the Federal 
Government with the Social Security Board in Baltimore, were you. 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now or have you ever been a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kandel. I refuse to answer that question an the ground it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Have you, Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. No. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. I think you stated you had attended trade school as 
part of your education. Will you tell us, please, what trade school you 
attended ? 

Mr. Kandel. It was a trade school under the auspices of the Balti- 
more public school system, in one of its buildings. 

Mr. Doyle. Was it an engineerintr school ? 

Mr. Kandel. Various machine working tools. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you in the Active or Inactive Reserve of any branch 
of the military service of the United States? 

Mr. Kandel. I am not. 

Mr. Doyle. I presume you served your term of enlistment in the 
services during the last war. I believe you said you were in the Navy ? 

Mr. Kandel. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. What rank did you hold when you were discharged?: 

Mr. Kandel. Machinist's mate, shop, third class. 

Mr. Doyle. That is all. '' 

Mr. Kandel. I want to make one addition to that: While in the 
Navy I also attended the trade schools to which I have made reference. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney ? 

Mr. Kearney. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. What was the nature of your discharge? 

Mr. Kandel. It was an honorable discharge. 

Mr. Jackson. Where did you spend the major part of your service 
during the 2 years you were in the service ? 

Mr. Kandel. At a number of different places. After boot camp I 
was asigned to the trade school in Dearborn, Mich. From there I was 
assigned to Norfolk, Va. From there I went to the west coast for 
shipment to the Marshall Islands, and from there, after the war was; 
over, to Tokyo. 



COJMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFEiNSE AREA 877 

Mr. Jackson. Have you traveled abroad ? 

Mr. Kandel, Yes, I have, 

Mr. Jackson, Has your travel abroad been on one or more oc- 
casions, and was it aside from your war service? 

Mr. Kandel. Aside from my war service ? No. 

Mr. Jackson. No furtlier questions. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions? 

Mr. Tavenxer. Not at this time, I would like the witness to re- 
main. I would like to ask him another question or two. 

Mr. BucHMAN. Today? 

Mr. Tavenner. Today, yes. 

Mr. Wood, There is a vote, gentlemen, I wonder if we can come 
back here at 3 : 30 in order to finish this schedule ? 

(Whereupon, at 2: 50 p, m,, a recess was taken until 4: 10 p, m., at 
which time the followino; proceedings took place.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Will all the witnesses who were subpenaed for to- 
day and who have not been heard come forward to the bench, please? 

Mr. Kandel, I had asked you to come back for further possible ques- 
tions. You are excused by direction of the chairman. 

(The witness Kandel was excused.) 

Mr. BucHMAN, One of my clients is out of the room. Do you want 
to wait a minute until I get him in ? 

Mr. Tavenner. What is his name ? 

Mr. BucHMAN, Milton Seif. 

Mr. Tavenner (addressing another witness). AVill you give me 
3'our name, please ? 

Mr. KouND. Harold L. Round, 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Round, you are excused by direction of the 
chairman. In fact, all the witnesses who were subpenaed for today 
and who have not been heard are excused by direction of the committee 
until 10 o'clock on the morning of July 11, 

I want to get your names (addressing the four individuals standing 
before the committee and counsel). 

Your name is Round, And what is your name ? 

Mr. Winkler. Irving Winkler. 

Mr. Tavenner. And your name ? 

Mr. NiCHOL. Herbert J. Nichol. 

Mr. Tavenner. And your name ? 

Mr. Seif. Mikon H. Seif. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me see if there were any others. No. I be- 
lieve that covers all those who were subpenaed for today and not 
reached. 

There is a full docket tomorrow. This does not affect any who were 
subpenaed for tomorrow, 

(Whereupon, at 4: 12 p. m, on Wednesday, June 27, 1951, an ad- 
journment was taken until Thursday, June 28, 1951, at 10 a. m.) 



HEAKINGS KELATING TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN 
THE DEFENSE AEEA OF BALTIMORE— PAET 1 

(Based on Testimony of Mary Stalcup Markward) 



THURSDAY, JUNE 28, 1951 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee on 

Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. G. 

public hearing 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con- 
tinued the hearing on the above date, at 12 : 15 p. m., in room 226, Old 
House Office Building, Hon. Francis E. Walter presiding.^ 

Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter, 
appointed chairman of the subcommittee; James B. Frazier, Jr., 
Harold H. Velde, Bernard W. Kearney, and Donald L. Jackson. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel ; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel; Donald T. Appell, investigator; 
Raphael I. Nixon, director of research; John W. Carrington, clerk; 
and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Walter. Will you call the witness, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Sam Fox. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Fox, v^ill you raise your right hand? Do you 
swear the testimony you are about to give shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Fox. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF SAM POX, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

HAROLD BTJCHMAN 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your full name, please ? 
Mr. Fox. My name is Sam Fox. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented here by counsel ? 
Mr. Fox. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 
Mr. Buchman. Harold Buchman, 213 Tower Building, Baltimore, 
Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Fox, when and where were you born ? 
Mr. Fox. I was born July 5, 1917, in New York City. 

' Testimony of the preceding witnesses heard by the Committee on Un-American Activi 
ties on this day, William Spiegel and Max Weinstock, is printed in another volume under 
same main title, pt. 3. 

879 



1 

880 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Ta^tinner. Will you please tell the committee briefly what your i 

educational training has been ? i| 

Mr. Fox. High school graduate. I went to evening college for a : 

number of years, but I completed actual credits for about 2 yeai-s. ; 
Mr. Tavenner. What college did you attend ? I 

Mr. Fox. Brooklyn Evening College. 1 

Mr. Ta\'Enner. When did you complete your college work ? ; 

Mr. Fox. I did not complete my college work. ! 

Mr. Tavenner. "\¥lien did you finish your college work ? ] 

Mr. Fox. I did not finish my college work. ^ 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you leave college ? ' 

Mr. Fox. 1939 or 1940, 1 am not quite sure of the date. ] 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? i 

Mr. Fox. 2208 Linden Avenue, Baltimore, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Baltimore ? ' 

Mr. Fox. Since the early part of 1942. ; 

Mr. Tavenner. And prior to 1942 where did you reside ? ' 

Mr. Fox. Brooklyn, N. Y. I 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you now employed ? I 

Mr. Fox. I am employed at the Comfy Manufacturing Co. 
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the name again ? i 

Mr. Fox. Comfy Manufacturing Co. or Corp. ; I don't know which. ; 
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been employed there? 
Mr. Fox. I believe I started approximately October 1947. i 

Mr. Tavenner. And prior to 1947 where were you employed? 
Mr. Fox. I had quite a number of jobs prior to 1947. Do you mean ; 

immediately prior? I 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, start immediately prior and we will go back, j 

unless you Avould prefer to give them in another manner. I 

Mr. Fox. I have no preference. I am a subpenaed witness. Prior ' 

to that I Avas with the United Furniture Workers as international j 

representative. i 

Mr. Tavenner. When did your employment begin with the United ' 

Furniture Workers? ; 

Mr. Fox. You must understand, sir, that I can't give you exact ' 

dates. ' 

Mr. Walter. To the best of your recollection. I 

Mr. Fox. To the best of my recollection it was August or July of  

1946. ^ i 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of local 75 while you were I 

employed there ? \ 

Mr. Fox. I am not sure. I think so. 
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold an}^ ofhcial position in the United ' 

Furniture Workers? 

Mr. Fox. I was an international representative. '  

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Max Weinstock? ' 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer on the grounds it might tend to in- • 

criminate me. i 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to your employment as business agent of ' 

that union  

Mr. Fox. I was not the business agent. i 

Mr. Tavenner. As international representative, how were you em- i 

ployed prior to that ? j 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 881 

Mr. Fox. I had been working in Bethlehem Key Highway Ship- 
yard. 

Mr. Tavenner. And when did your employment begin there? 

Mr. Fox. I don't exactly recall, but it was for a brief period. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Can you fix the j^ear ? 

Mr. Fox. Yes; 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. And prior to your employment at that plant where 
were you employed ? 

Mr. Fox. Bethlehem Fairfield Shipyard. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you employed there ? 

Mr. Fox. About 2 months. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that how were you employed ? 

Mr. Fox. By the United States Army. 

Mr. Tavenner. And when did you enter the service? 

Mr. Fox. September or October of 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you were discharged when ? 

Mr. Fox. Could I refer to my discharge papers ? 

Mr. Walter. Just to the best of your recollection. 

Mr. Fox. March or April 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to your entering the service, how were you 
employed ? 

Mr. Fox. I was employed by local 43 of the Shipbuilders' Union. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry, 1 didn't hear your answer. 

Mr. Fox. I was employed by local 43 of the Shipbuilders' Union. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what capacity? 

Mr. Fox. Several capacities. The latest one was assistant business 
figent. 

Mr, Tavenner. And what were the other capacities in which you 
served that local? 

Mr. Fox. Editor of the union paper. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did your employment begin and end? 

Mr. Fox. Beg pardon ? 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. When did your employment begin and end with 
local 43? 

Mr. Fox. It ended wnth my induction into the Army. It began, I 
believe, about a year before then. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Fox, the investigation conducted by the com- 
mittee has indicated the existence of a Communist Party cell among 
the members of local 43. Will you give the committee the benefit of 
such knowledge as you may have regarding such a cell, if one existed? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Walter. Do you know of the existence of such a cell? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse' to answer that question on the ground it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Walter. I am not asking whether or not you participated in 
any activities of the cell. I am merely asking if you know of the 
existence of any such cell. 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Does this man [indicating photographer] have to point that thing 
at me all the time? 

Mr. Walter. Are you through with the pictures? It is very dis- 
concerting. 



882 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

(Photographer left hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. According to the committee's information, youi 
were a candidate on the Progressive Party ticket for the office of , 
United State Senator in Maryland in 1950. Is that correct? 

Mr. Fox. (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the ground it might tend to incriminate me. j 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question ? | 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Kearney. i 

Mr. Kearney. Am I to believe that the mere fact you were a candi- \ 
date on the Progressive Party ticket for United States Senator in 
the State of Maryland would tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to anwer that question on the ground it might i 
tend to incriminate me, but I would like to observe I 

Mr. Kearney. I am not asking for your observation. I am merely \ 
asking you to answer my question. 

Mr. Fox. I have answered it. • ' 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you what purports to be a certificate of i 
nomination signed by Dr. J. E. T. Camper, chairman of the Progres- ; 
sive Party of Maryland, presiding officer of the convention of the ! 
party, and also signed by Harold Buchman, secretary, Progressive i 
Party of Maryland, secretary of the convention, certifying you as a i 
candidate for election for the office of United States Senator of the i 
Progressive Party, State of Maryland. 

Will you examine it, please, and state whether or not you know ! 
that you were so certified ? 

Mr, Fox (after examining said document). I refuse to answer that 
question on the ground it might tend to incriminate me, and I would \ 
like to observe that the method by which the committee has subpenaed '• 
witnesses, and the entire hysteria that is exhibited in the newspapers, i 
makes any normal person reluctant to discuss any political activity \ 
he may or may not have been involved in. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Fox, are you familiar with local 2609, United ; 
Steel Workers of America ? ' 

Mr. Fox. I am acquainted with the existence of such a local. \ 

Mr: Walter. In connection with what you have just said, I point ! 
out that your feelings in this matter are not shared by others. I  
would like to read a telegram that has just come to the chairman of j 
this committee : 

Local 2609 United Steel Workers of America, CIO. 3701 East Lombard Street, ; 
Baltimore, Md., has gone on record to endorse completely the committee investi- ; 
gation of alleged Communists in Baltimore area. i 

The telegram is signed by John L. O'Connor, recording secretary, ' 
local 2609, 3701 East Lombard Street, Baltimore 24, Md. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr, Chairman, may I say in that connection that it j 

is a matter of record that the great labor organizations of this country 1 

have gone on record publicly in favor of purging Communists and 1 

Communist leadership from their unions, and that the only protests I 

we have had on "union busting" or "antilabor" activity have come ; 

from witnesses who have refused to cooperate in any manner on points j 

touching on Communist affiliation or Communist organization. i 

I think that statement should be on the record so that the record may I 
be clear on that point. Cooperative witnesses have in no instance 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 883 

accused this committee of union-busting activity. I subscribe to the 
statement of our distinguished chairman yesterday that if there are 
Communists in control of union organizations, those organizations 
should be "busted," and promptly. 

Mr. Fox. Are you Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. 

Mr. Fox. The definition of the word is a very loose one and applied 
indiscriminately, and "busting" unions has taken the form of pinning 
a label on the union and, with attendant hysteria, attempting to "bust 
that union.. 

Mr. Jackson. If the witness wishes to win the approbation of this 
committee and of the vast majority of the people in this country, all 
he has to do is deny his affiliation with the Communist Party. That 
is the easiest way in which you can take away any stigma that may 
attach to your testimony. 

Mr. Walter. The committee will have to take a recess until 2 
o'clock. 

(Thereupon a recess was taken until 2 p. m. of the same day.) 

afternoon session 

(The subcommittee reconvened at 2:45 p. m.. Representatives 
Walter, Frazier, and Kearney, the full membership . of the subcom- 
mittee, being present. ) 

Mr. Walter. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

TESTIMONY OF SAM FOX— Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Fox, I hand you a photostatic copy of what 
purports to be an affidavit of candidate for election under article 33 
of the code as required by the Subversive Activities Act of 1949 of 
the State of Maryland, signed by Sam Fox before a notary public, 
which certifies and affirms that the affiant is not a member of a sub- 
versive organization as defined in chapter 86 of the Acts of the General 
Assembly of Maryland of 1949. 

Will you please examine it and state whether or not that is your 
signature ? 

Mr. Fox (after examining said document). I refuse to answer 
that question on the ground it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you sign an affidavit which is required under 
the laws of the State of Maryland in connection with candidacy for 
office? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer this affidavit in 
evidence, and ask that it be marked "Fox Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Walter., Let it be so marked and received. 

(The document above referred to, marked "Fox Exhibit No. 1," 
is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Tavenner. The date of this affidavit is September 1, 1950. 
Were you a member of a subversive organization on that date, as de- 
fined in chapter 86 of the acts of the General Assembly of Maryland 
of 1949? 



884 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearnet. Mr. Chairman, will the witness speak up a little? 
I can't hear what he says. 

Mr. Fox, Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you, on September 1, 1950, a member of any 
organization directed, dominated, or controlled directly or indirectly 
by a foreign government which engaged in or advocates, abets, ad- 
vises, or teaches, or a purpose of which is to engage in or to advocate, 
abet, advise, or teach activities intended to overthrow, destroy, or 
alter, or to assist in the overthrow, destruction, or alteration of the 
constitutional form of the Government of the United States, or of 
the State of Maryland, or of any political subdivision of either of 
them, and to establish in place thereof any form of government the 
direction and control of which is to be vested in, or exercised by or 
under, the domination or control of any foreign government, organi- 
zation, or individual? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it might 
tend to incriminate me, 

Mr, BucHMAN. Judge Walter, I would like to call your attention 
to the fact that the court of appeals in Maryland, in the case of Fox 
versus Board of Election Supervisors, invalidated that oath insofar 
as it applied to candidates for Federal office, just as a matter of 
record, 

Mr, Kearney. Mr. Chairman, I understood the witness this morn- 
ing to refuse to admit he was a candidate for a Federal office. 

Mr. Walter. That is not exactly correct. He refused to answer 
the question. 

Mr. Kearney. Were you a candidate for the office of United States 
Senator on the Progressive ticket in Maryland in 1950 ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearney, Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr, Fox, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it might 
tend to incriminate me, 

Mr, Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Frazier? 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Kearney ? 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Fox, do you agree with the thoughts of the two 
major labor organizations, namely, the American Federation of Labor 
and the CIO, in their desire to rid themselves of Communists in their 
locals? 

Mr. Fox (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the ground it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearney. That is all. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Tavenner, do you want to ask another question? 

Mr. Tavenner, Yes, 

Mr. Fox, the committee has information that on June 20, 1951, that 
is just a few days ago, there was an announcement of the formation 
of an organization known as the Committee to Defend American 
Freedoms, in Baltimore, 



i 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFEiNSE AREA 885 

Do you know anything about the formation of that organization? 

Mr. Fox (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer  
that question on the ground it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether the founders of the organi- 
zation are Mrs. Harold Buchman, Mrs. Sam Fox, Mrs. Milton Self, 
and Mrs. Louis Shub? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to ansAver that question on the ground it might 
tend to incriminate me, and I also protest tlie bringing of my wife's 
name into this hearing. 

Mr. Walter. Is your wife the Mrs. Fox whose name was men- 
tioned ? 

Mr. Fox (after conferring with his counsel). Do you want to know 
the name of my wife, sir? 

Mr. Walter. No. You declined to answer the question naming 
those people on the ground it might tend to incriminate you. Among 
the names was Mrs. Sam Fox. I was wondering if that is the name 
of your wife. 

Mr. Fox. Anybody who is my wife would be named Mrs. Sam Fox, 
I presume. 

]\Ir. Walter. Is the Mrs. Sam Fox named in connection with that 
organization your wife? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Walter. What might tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearney. Are you in any way connected with the American 
Peace Crusade that meets in Chicago Friday, June 29 ? 

]\Ir. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearney. Any petitions for the American Peace Crusade that 
were placed for circulation in the city of Baltimore, did you have 
anything to do with the placing of those petitions? 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson entered hearing room.) 

Mr. Fox. I didn't hear the question. 

Mr. Kearney. Will the stenographer read the question ? 

(The question referred to was read by the re])orter as recorded.) 

Mr. Fox (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the ground it might tend to incriminate me. I 
Avish to state also that I think this is a back-handed attack on people 
desirous of attaining a peaceful world. 

Mr. Kearney. Before the witness makes a speech, Mr. (^hairman, I 
would like to have him state why an answer to that question would 
tend to incriminate him. 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it might 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearney. Answer the question. 

Mr. Fox. I have answered the question. 

Mr. Kearney. I didn't hear it. 

Mr. Fox. I said I refuse to answer the question on the ground it 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearney. That is all. 



886 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Fox, how do you feel you might be incriminated 
if you admit you were in anywise connected with the American Peace 
Crusade? 

Mr. Fox. Would you mind repeating that question ? 

Mr. Walter. How do you feel you might be incriminated if you 
admitted you were connected with the American Peace Crusade ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds it might 
tend to incriminate me. However, organizations of that type, and 
probably that specific organization, have been attacked by various 
persons as subversive, I think including this committee. In fact, I 
would add that there is a tendency to attack anybody who tries to 
achieve a peaceful world. 

Mr. Walter. That line sounds strangely familiar. 

Mr. Fox. I beg pardon ? 

Mr. Walter. I say that line sounds strangely familiar. 

Mr. Fox. I can't say I know what you mean. 

Mr. Walter. Anything further? 

Mr. Jackson. Were you in the military service? 

Mr. Fox. I was. 

Mr. Jackson. What was your branch of service ? 

Mr. Fox. I was in the Infantry. 

Mr. Jackson. Where did you see service? 

Mr. Fox. Well, I was trained within the continental limits of the 
United States. I was in New Caledonia, the Philippine Islands, and, 
lastly, occupation in Japan. 

Mr. Jackson. Would you, if called up for military service, will- 
ingly serve again ? 

Mr. Fox. If I were called for military service I would respond and 
act in accordance with what was required of me. However, I think — 
and I think I express the thought of millions of people — that we 
should devote our energy toward preserving the peace and accom- 
plishing a cease-fire order in Korea and establishing a basis for a 
permanent peace. I have seen war, and I certainly do not want to 
see another war. 

Mr. Jackson. In that respect we are in total agreement. I, too, 
have seen war. I think probably every member of this committee is 
as desirous as you are for a peaceful world. Do you believe the 
Soviet Union is working for peace today ? 

Mr. Fox (after conferring with his counsel). I couldn't give an 
authoritative answer to that. 

Mr. Jackson. What concrete assistance have you given toward the 
preservation of peace or the achievement of peace ? 

Mr. Fox (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the ground it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you believe that membership in the Communist 
Party, or affiliation with any Communist-front organization, makes 
a contribution to a peaceful world ? 

Mr. Fox (after conferring with his counsel) . I have no formal opin- 
ion on that. 

Mr. Jackson. That is all. 

Mr. Walter. Anything further, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Walter. You may be excused. 

(Witness excused.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 887 

(Testimony of the next witness is printed in another volume under 

same title, Part 3. The hearing then continued with the testimony | 

of Eli Isadore Schwartz.) i 

Mr. Taa^enner. Mr. Isidore Schwartz. 

Mr. Walter. Will you hold up your right hand. Do you swear the I 

testimony you are about to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, J 

and notliing but the truth, so help you God ? i 

Mr. Schwartz. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ELI ISIDORE SCHWAETZ, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, MAURICE BRAVERMAN _ | 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your full name ? j 

Mr. Schwartz. Eli Isidore Schwartz. j 

Mr. Braverman. Before we proceed I would like to protest the j 

absence of a quorum, for the sake of the record, and to state we are j 

proceeding under protest due to the lack of a quorum. ; 

Mr. Walter. Yes. A quorum of the subcommittee is present. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are represented by counsel ? : 

INIr. Schwartz. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? : 

Mr. Braverman. Maurice Braverman, 119 West Mulberry Street, 

Baltimore, Md. i; 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Schwartz, when and where were you born ? i 

Mr. Schwartz. December 22, 1904, Baltimore, Md. j 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational training? : 

Mr. Schwartz. Primary and high schools in Baltimore City. ' 

Mr. Tavi>:nner. Do you now reside in Baltimore ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I do not. t, 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you reside at this time ? 

Mr. Schwartz. New York City. j 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in New York? •, 

Mr. Schwartz. Not quite 2 years. i 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time did you live in Baltimore? I 

Mr. Schwartz. I did. '; 

Mr. Tavenner. And for how long a period of time ^ 

Mr. Schwartz. Up to 2 years ago I lived in Baltimore all my life. l 

Mr. Tavenner. In what business are you now engaged ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Salesman '■ 

Mr. Tavenner. For whoni ? 

Mr. Schwartz. Superior Agencies. '; 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed when you lived in '; 

Baltimore? j 

Mr. Schwartz. As an employee of the city of Baltimore. I 

Mr. Tavenner. In what capacity? 

Mr. Schwartz. Various capacities, from junior clerk to supervisor. •; 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe more fully the position of super- • 

visor? What did you do? * 

Mr. Schwartz. I was supervisor of the employees' retirement system 

of Baltimore. i 

Mr. Tavenner. How long? 

Mr. Schwartz. I was employed in the department a number of years 
before becoming supervisor. My total employment with the city of 

Baltimore was slightly less than 25 years. j 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you made supervisor ? ,"! 



888 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room. ) 

Mr. Schwartz. To the best of my recollection, in 1944. 

Mr. Tavenner. During 1944 were you an officer of the professional 
section of the Communist Political Association ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time a member of the district 
committee of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Henry Thomas of the 
laborers' union in Washington, D. C. ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on" the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Phil Gran, presently em- 
ployed at the Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with William H. Wood, now 
employed by Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I must decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. You state you must; that is different from stating 
you do decline. 

Mr. Schwartz. I do decline. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time met in a meeting of any char- 
acter with Joe Henderson, an employee of Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to the hearing room. ) 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever met, in a meeting of any kind, with 
Aaron Ostrof sky, who is employed by the Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I refuse to answer that question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever met, in a meeting of any kind, with 
Levy Williamson ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever met, in a meeting of any kind, with 
Robert W. Lee, an employee of the Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever met, in a meeting of any kind, with 
Frank Pinter, an employee of the Bethlehem Steel Corp. ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Taatenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
I. Duke Avnet ? 

Mr. Schwartz. I decline to answer the question on the ground it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Did you ever have a disagreement with Mr. Avnet 
which might have resulted in his withdrawal from association with 
you in any enterprise? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 889 

Mr, Schwartz (after conferring with his counsel). I decline to 
answer that question on the <rround it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever have a dispute or disagreement with 
Mr. Avnet? 

Mr. Schwartz. As I stated, Mr. Counsel, I decline to answer that 
question on the groimds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now or have you ever been a member of 
the Communist Party ^ 

Mr. Schwartz. 1 decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Frazier? 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Walter. The witness will be excused. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Walter. The meeting is now adjourned. 

(Thereupon, an adjournment was taken.) 



HEAEINGS KELATING TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN 
THE DEFENSE AREA OF BALTIMOEE— PAET 1 

(Based on Testimony of Mary Stalcup Mark ward) 



FRIDAY, JULY 13, 1951 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. G. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The Committee on Un-American Activities continued the hearing 
on the above date, at 3 : 30 p. m., in room 2:26 Old House Office Build- 
ing, Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) presiding.^ 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man), Francis E. Walter, Clyde Doyle, James B. Frazier, Jr., and 
Bernard W. Kearne3^ 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel; Donald T. Appell, investigator; 
Raphael I. Nixon, director of research; John W. Carrington, clerk; 
and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. ]Mr. Counsel, will you call the witness? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Herbert j. Nichol. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Nichol, will you stand and be sworn, please? 

Do you solemnly swear the evidence you give this committee shall 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Nichol. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. 

TESTIMONY OF HERBERT J. NICHOL, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, JAMES T. WRIGHT 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Herbert J. Nichol ? 
Mr. Nichol. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel ? 
Mr. Nichol. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 
Mr. Wright. I am James T. Wright, member of the local bar, with 
offices located at 2003 Twelfth Street NW., this city. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Nichol? 
Mr. Nichol. March 28, 1913, in Philadelphia, Pa. 



^ Testimony of the preceding witnesses heard by the Committee on Un-American Activi- 
ties on this day, Thelma Gerende and William H. Hill, is printed in another volume under 
same title, pt. 3. 

86629— 51— pt. 1 11 891 



892 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you briefly outline your educational back- 
ground ? 

Mr. NioHOL. I went to public school, grammar school, and high 
school, in Philadelphia, went to Haverford College, Pennsylvania. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you complete your college course? 

Mr. NicHOL. 1934. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. NiCHOL. In Baltimore, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you employed? 

Mr. Ntchol. I am a field organizer for the United Electrical, Radio, 
and Machine Workers of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long liave you been a field organizer for 
the up:? 

Mr. NicHOL. Since the summer of 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tluit is a full paid position; is it not? 

Mr. NiCHOL. What do you mean by "full paid"? 

Mr. Tavenner. A full-time position, I meant to say. 

Mr. NiciioL. And overtime. 

Mr. TA-vTiNNER. And, I assume, full paid, too ? 

Mr. NiCHOE. Well, we get a salary. By the way, the salary is set 
by the constitution of our international union, which is available to 
the committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have vou lived in Baltimore? 

Mr. NiCHOL. Since December 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time where did you live? 

Mr. NiCHOL. I lived in Philadelphia, but I worked in Lancaster, 
Pa. I went home on week ends. 

Mr. Tavenner. What other places did you perform the work in or 
live, prior to 1948 ? 

Mr. NiciiOE. Prior to 1948? Before coming to Baltimore, I was 
in Lancaster, Pa., where I worked, although I maintained my resi- 
dence in Philadelphia, and went home on week ends, as I informed 
the committee. 

Prior to that T was for a short time in Allentown, Pa., and prior 
to that I was in Wilmington, Del. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, let's try to fix these dates a little more 
for us, please. 

How long were you in Lancaster, and how were you employed 
while there? 

Mr. Ntchol. The same capacity as I am now, field organizer for 
the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. And for what period of time? 

Mr. NicHOL. I believe I went there al)out December of 1947. or 
maybe the end of November, and left there in November of 1948. 
Wait. Wait a minute. Pardon me. 

The first date, I believe, is 1946. I went to Lancaster in November 
or early December of 1946 and left there in November of 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. At Allentown, how were you employed, and over 
what period of time did vou engage in work there? 

Mr. NiCHOL. About 2 months, from September to November of 
1946, and T was a field organizer for the United Electrical Workers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did vou hold the same position in Wilmington, 
Del.? 



COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 893 

Mr. NiciiOL. Yes; while I worked for the T^iiited Electrical 
Workers. I was hired as a field oroanizer, and T have always been 
one since then. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you a field organizer in Wilmington, 
Del? 

Mr. NiCTiOL. Well, if I recall correctly, I Avent on the UE staff 
approximately May or early June of 1946, and I was several weeks 
m Pliiladelphia, when I first was hired, and then was sent to Wilming- 
ton. althou<^h I remained living in Philadelphia. I was sent to 
Wilmington, I suppose, sometime in Jime, ancl I stayed there until 
I left for Allentown, sometime in September; that is, I worked there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have other employment in Wilmington 
besides that of a field organizer? 

Mr. NiCHOL. No. That is a full-time and overtime job, as I have 
indicated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to the time of your appointment as a field 
organizer, did you have any other employment in Wilmington, Del.? 

Mr. NicHOL. Yes. I worked for the Congress of Industrial Organ- 
izations in Wilmington, Del., prior to going with the United Electrical 
Workers. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you work for the CIO ? 

Mr. NicHOL. Well, I went with the CIO, I believe, in the summer 
of 1941. I believe that was when it was, and I worked there until 
August of 1942, when I went in the United States Army. I returned 
the beginning of January 1946, after my discharge from the Army, 
and I worked for the CIO until I resigned, I believe in May, and took 
a couple of weeks' vacation before I went to work for the United 
Electrical Workers, 

Mr. Taat:nner. What was the type of your employment with the 

€10? 

Mr. Nk^hol. I was officially known as the secretary to the regional 
director, but I performed also, on a nonpaid basis, part of the time, 
the duties of the secretary of the Newcastle Council, Industrial Union 
Council, a CIO council which covers tliat area. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you lived in Philadelphia, what was your 
address? 

Mr. NioHOL. I had various addresses, sir. What time do you 
refer to ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you name the different addresses that you had 
while living in Philadelphia, say, from 1940 up until the time you 
-went into the Army ? 

Mr. NicHOL. Well, if I recall correctly, in 1940 I lived on Chancellor 
Street, either the 5400 or 5,500 block, I don't recall the exact number, 
■on Chancellor Street. I lived there and maintained my residence 
there, even while I was working in Wilmington, because I used to 
return there week ends. Wilmington is within a half-hour's ride 
from Philadelphia. 

Just immediately prior to going into the Army I moved to, I believe 
it is, 6 South Forty-third Street, in an apartment there with my par- 
ents, and that w^as my residence until I came out of the Army, that is, 
my home residence. 

When I came out of the Army I was there with them for a month 
or so and then we moved across the street into a larger apartment, at 



894 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFEiNiSE AREA 

5 South Forty-third Street, and that remained my residence until I 
came to Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever live at 4419 Osag:e Street? 
Mr. NicHOL. 4419 Osage ? I believe I did, sir, prior to living onj 
Chancellor Street. I don't know whether that is the exact number, 
but I did live on Osage Avenue. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information that 
one Herbert J. Nichol, of 4419 Osage Street, Philadelphia, Pa., was 
listed as a signer of a Communist Party nominating petition for 
the State of Pennsylvania, in 1940. Are you the Herbert J. Nichol 
who signed 

Mr. NiciioL. I hardly could tell you that without seeing the docu- 
ment, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. I will show you a photostatic copy of 
the document, and I will ask the investigator to point out the signa- 
ture of the name Herbert J. Nichol. 

Mr. Nichol. That looks like my writing. 

Mr. Tavenner. There isn't any doubt in your mind — you are satis- 
fied that you signed the petition, aren't you ? 

Mr. Nichol. Frankly, I don't recall whether I did or not, but that 
looks like my writing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the circumstances surrounding th& 
solicitation of your signature to this Communist Party nominating- 
petition? . 

Mr. Nichol. I don't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party at 
this time ? 

Mr. Nichol. I think I will have to assert my constitutional privilege- 
under the fifth amendment, and decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Nichol, it is not what you think, it is what you do.. 

Mr. Nichol. I assert my constitutional privilege under the fifth 
amendment to decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. The date appearing opposite your signature is that 
of March 17, 1940. 

The committee is also in possession of information that you were' 
a speaker at a Communist Party meeting in Russell Hall, 306 North 
Fifty-second Street, Philadelphia, Pa., on December 1, 1940, the 
meeting being held under the auspices of the Young Communist 
League of Philadelphia. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Nichol (after conferring with his counsel). I assert my privi- 
lege under the fifth amendment to decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that upon your return from your service- 
in the Army, you returned to your former position with the CIO. 

Mr. Nichol. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that shortly thereafter you resigned? 

Mr. Nichol. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long was it after you resumed your duties^ 
with the CIO in Wilmington that you resigned ? 

Mr. Nichol. I think the record also has that information, but I 
will repeat it. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Nichol. I returned from the Army and returned to work for 
the CIO just after the New Year holiday in 1946, and I worked there, 
I believe, until the middle of May, somewhere around that date, and 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 895 

then I resigned, took a 2-weeks' vacation before I went to work for the 
United Electrical workers. 

Mr. Tavenner. While you were in Wilmington in 1946, did ^ou 
hold any position in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. NicHOL. I decline to answer that on my constitutional privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. After you received your appointment or your po- 
sition with the UE, did you hold any position in the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. NiCHOL. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Dan Slinger? 

Mr. NiCHOL. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not Dan Slinger was 
^chairman of the Communist Party in Delaware, Wilmington, Del. 

Mr. NiCHOL. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. IVIary Stalcup Markward testified before the com- 
mittee on Wednesday of this week, and during the course of the testi- 
mony she identified' you as a member of the Communist Party in the 
-city of Baltimore. Do you desire to deny or affirm or explain ? 

Mr. NiCHOL. AVliich question are you asking me ? 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. I am asking you if you, in the light of that informa- 
tion, have anything to say to this committee ? 

Mr. NiCHOL. Well, in the light of that information, the only thing 
I can say is that it seems to me from what I read ill the newspapers, 
DO thinking person gives much credibility to the testimony of a witness 
who has been paid for some time to perform certain functions. 

Mr. Tavenner, All right. Then, you have the opportunity now 
to deny it. 

Mr. NiCHOL. Are you asking me to ? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Yes. And do you deny it ? 

Mr. NiCHOL. I refuse to answer that on the grounds that I have 
stated before. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. We have been informed through the witness that you 
were interested in young people's work back there in Philadelphia; 
that you were trying to be helpful to young people. 

Mr. NiCHOL. I don't understand your question. I don't know what 
;fou are referring to. I made no such reference, if you are referring 
to something I said. 

Mr. DoTLE. I know you did not. We have been informed that you 
•did, many years ago, back there in Baltimore 

Mr. Tavenner. Philadelphia. 

Mr. D0YI.E. Rather, in Philadelphia — that in 1940 you were active 
in helping young people organize in Phialdelphia. Do you remember 
helping any group of youngsters? Did you ever speak at any con- 
ventions or committees there, of any young people ? 

Mr. NiCHOL. I don't recall, sir ; I am completely in the dark about 
jour questioning. 



896 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX BALTIMORE DEFEJsTSE AREA 

Mr. DoYi.E. I will ask yon specifically, then, assuming that you 
will be just as frank and honest in your answer to this next question 
as you w^ere to my last one. 

\Ve were informed that in Philadelphia, you were an active mem- 
ber of the Young Communist League back in 1940. Now, was that 
true? 

Mr. NiCHOL (after conferring with his counsel ) . I decline to answer 
on the same grounds I have declined to answer the other questions. 

Mr. Doyle. Of course, you did not claim your privilege to the last 
question, the one just before this one. 

Mr. NiCHOL. I said, the other questions tliat I declined to answer. 

Mr. Doyle. You have not declined to answer any others for me. 
This is the first one. 

Mr. NiCHOL. Well, I referred to the questions where I declined to 
answer because of my rights and privileges under the fifth amend- 
ment to the Constitution, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Of course, as a Congressman, and as a father of chil- 
dren, I am always interested in meeting folks that have been active 
in trying to help young people. I just assumed that if you were 
active in trying to heli) young people back in 1940, you would not 
be ashamed of it, or hesitate to admit to us that you had spoken before 
any convention or any committee. 

Mr. NiCHOL. Sir, I am not ashamed of anytliing I have done that 
I can think of. Everyone, I suppose, in their life, has some things 
to be ashamed of. 

Mr. Doyle. We will stipulate on that. 

Mr. NiCHOL. I don't claim I am perfect. But, from wliat I read 
in the newspapers, people are being sent to jail either for their opin- 
ions, or for opinions that other people may think they have, and so 
forth. 

Mr. Walter. Who has been sent to jail because of opinions they 
have ? 

Mr. NiCHOL. 1 understand that 11 Communists have been sent to 
jail. 

Mr. Walter. Xot for opinions that they had. 

Mr. NicHOL. I am not a lawyer, sir. 

Mr. Walter. That is a gross misstatement of fact, and I want to 
straighten you out. 

Mr. NiCHOL. May I ask the Congressman what were they sent to 
jail for? 

Mr. Walter. The}^ were sent to jail because they were convicted of 
being parties to a conspiracy to overthrow the Government of the 
United States. 

Mr. NicHOL. May I ask my counsel ? 

Mr. Walter. I don't know why you should be afraid to answer the 
question whether you were a member of the Young Communist 
League in 1940, because you couldn't be prosecuted if you had been 
a member of it, the statute of limitations has long since run, even if it 
was a crime. 

Mr. NicHOL (after conferring with his counsel). Well, I don't know 
what the charge against the 11 Comnuuiists was, except what I thought 
I understood from reading the newspapers, and therefore I cannot 
comment on that. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 897 

Mr. Doyle. ]\Iay I ask this : I am wondering whether your thought 
on the question, which you revealed in answer to my List question — I 
wonder if it came entirely from a newspaper report, or whether there 
Avere any other reports that you read about it from any weekly paper 
or any monthly paper of any organization? 

For instance, did you read that opinion in your own union paper? 

Mr. XicHOT.. If I recall correctly, our union paper has had articles 
at various times on various subjects concerning civil liberties. 

Mr. Wood. Would the gentleman yield for an observation ? 

I assume you have confidence in your counsel, in the ability of your 
counsel, his legal opinion? 

Mr. NiciioL. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. If he were to advise you that admitting or denying 
membership in the Young Communist League did not constitute an 
otfense for which you could be prosecuted, would you answer the 
question ? 

Mr. NiCHOL. I would want to consult with my counsel as to what 
is involved in this, and what my rights are. 

Mr. Wood. Suppose you do that. 

Mr. NiciioL (after conferring with his counsel). My counsel ad- 
vises me that it is within my rights to decline to answer that question 
on the basis of my constitutional privilege. 

Mr. Wood. Although I would like to, I cannot go into the question 
of what your counsel did tell you with reference to wdiether or not it 
is a violation of any criminal statute. I am sure he did not tell you 
that. 

Go ahead, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I noted in your answer to another committee member's 
question, or to counsel, that you were a member of the CIO in one of 
their employed positions, at one time. 

Mr. NiCHOL. Yes, sir, • 

Mr. Doyle. Now you are employed in the UEW? 

Mr. NiCHOL. We call it the UE, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. You know we have a group out in California in that 
organization, I think. Are you a member of the Elks ? 

Mr. NiCHOL. No. 

Mr. DoYT.E. Are you a member of the Masons ? 

Mr. NiCHOL. No, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you a member of 

Mr. NiCHOL. I am a member of Phi Beta Kappa, if that is of any 
interest to the committee. 

Mr. Doyle. Congratulations. 

Mr. NiciioL. My job — you can cut this short — my job is a day-and- 
night job, if you know anything about a union organizer's work. I 
have very little time to belong to many organizations. 

Mr. Doyle. Now, you are very proud of the fact that you are a 
member of Phi Beta Kappa, and we all congratulate you on that, of 
course. That came from Haverford College? 

Mr. Niciiol. Haverford, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you a member of the Communist Party also? 

Mr. Niciiol. Sir, I have already .declined to answer that on the 
basis of my constitutional privileges under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Doyle. Is there a differentiation in your mind between carrying 
a Phi Beta Kappa key and being a member of the Communist Party? 



898 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. NiCHOL. Well, Walter Lippmann is a member of Phi Beta 
Kappa. 

Mr. Walter. He wouldn't hesitate to answer whether he was a 
member of the Communist Party or not? 

Mr. NiCHOL. I don't know Walter Lippmann, sir, personally. 

Mr. Doyle. I was just interested that you draw a difference in being 
a member 

Mr. NiCHOL. I don't recall hearing anywhere that membership in 
Phi Beta Kappa subjects one to possible prosecution. 

Mr. Wood. Has your counsel advised that membership in the Com- 
munist Party does ? 

Mr. NiciiOL. Sir, I decline to answer, on the basis of my constitu- 
tional privilege under the fifth amendment. I hope the gentlemen 
are not trying to trap me. 

Mr. Wood. Certainly not. As far as I am concerned, I am trying 
to get your viewpoint. 

Mr. NicHOL. As you know, Mr. Chairman, the circumstances of my 
being called before this committee were very unusual, and have raised 
certain suspicions in my mind. 

Mr. Walter. That statement is unfair. You were subpenaed here. 

Mr. Nichol. Sir, I haven't finished my statement. 

Mr. Walter. I know just what you said. You were subpenaed to 
appear before this committee some time ago, and you asked that your 
appearance be deferred because your union was about to have an 
election. 

Mr. NiCHOL. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Walter. In deference to you, your request was granted. So, I 
think you are being very unfair when you say what you did just now. 

Mr. NicHOL. Well, what did I say, sir? 

Mr. Walter. Never mind. You know what you said, and so do I. 

Mr. Wood. You said that your subpena was under rather unusual 
circumstances, and raised certain suspicions in your mind. 

Mr. NiCHOL. I said the circumstances under which I was subpenaed 
raised certain suspicions in my mind. 

Mr. DoTLE. In other words, we did not want to interfere with your 
union activities, and so in cooperation with you we deliberately post- 
poned the subpena date until a date when it would not interfere with 
your union activities. You certainly cannot ask for any more Ameri- 
can cooperation than that. 

Mr. NiCHOL. I appreciate that, sir, particularly in view of the fact 
that our union won that election by an overwhelming vote. 

Mr. Doyle. We are not interested in who won it. We were inter- 
ested in being fair to an American citizen who had an official duty 
he had to perform. 

Mr. NiCHOL. I appreciate that. 

Mr. Doyle. That is what we are trying to do in all of our duties. 
We ought to be entitled to get the utmost cooperation from you union 
leaders, who ought to be 100 percent in support of the Constitution 
of the United States. 

Mr. NiCHOL. Sir, I and my union, I feel certain, are in 100-percent 
support of the Constitution of the United States, and I am only trying 
to preserve, as I am advised by counsel I have the right, some of those 
constitutional privileges which are written into the Constitution. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 899 

Mr, Doyle. We expect yon to preserve your privileges under the 
Constitution; but if you know of any subversive person or groUp, 
or any subversive program, you ought to go out of your way to help 
this committee to uncover it. That is all we are interested in. That 
is what we are trying to uncover, and that is why we ask you whether 
or not you are a Communist, and whether or not you know of any 
Communist activities, because, in our book, that's a bunch of subver- 
sive people. Isn't that true ? 

Mr. NicHOL. I don't understand. 

Mr. Doyle. Yes, you do understand my question. 

Mr. NicHOL. "In our book" ? 

Mr. DoYLE. I am saying to you that the American Communist Party 
is a bunch of subversive people ; isn't that true, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. NiCHOL. Sir, that is apparently the opinion of the committee. 

Mr. DoYLE. Is it your opinion? 

Mr. NicHOL. I don't know that I have formed an opinion on that. 

Mr. DoYLE. Why, certainly you have. 

Mr. NiCHOL. Well, sir, there are many things that particularly if 
one is trained to weigh and balance ideas, that one is not hasty to 
form opinions about. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, you have not been very hasty. You have been 
very deliberate in your answers, and your rights in relying on your 
counsel. We are always glad to have counsel present. 

Mr. NiCHOL. In the labor movement, we learn that we must be 
deliberate in our judgments, because we have the welfare of many 
people at stake, and we feel 

Mr. Doyle. In your activities in the labor movement • 

Mr. Walter. Will the gentleman yield at that point ? 

Mr. Doyle. You are active in the labor movement, and we are all 
glad of organized labor in this country, when it is led by people that 
are not Communists. As an organizer of labor, of organized labor 
in this country, I am asking you frankly whether or not you know of 
any person or persons who are engaged in any subversive conduct in 
this Nation ? 

Mr. NiCHOL. Well, I am in the position of saying that the ques- 
tion of what is defined as subversive by the questioner 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Webster's definition ought to be perfectly plain 
for a man that wears a Phi Beta Kappa key. I will ask you to rely 
on Mr. Webster. 

Mr. NicHOL. What is it, sir ? 

Mr. Doyle. What is the definition of "subversive"? Don't you 
know ? It means to destroy, to ruin, of course, and you know that is 
the definition, 

Mr. NiCHOL. If you ask me whether I know of anybody destroying 
or ruining the Government of the United States at this point 

Mr. Doyle. Wliether or not they have that objective. 

Mr. NiCHOL. Or have that objective, I would say that is a very 
difficult question to answer. I might have ideas about many people, 
but having proof or having any direct knowledge is something else. 
I might have suspicions, or I might think that this person or that 
person might have such an idea, but I hardly think that is a basis 
for knowledge, sir. 

Mr, Walter. You say that labor always reaches its decisions after 
great deliberations. 



900 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. NicHOL, Sir, I don't believe I made that exact statement. 

Mr. Walter. Labor is always deliberate. 

Mr. NiCHOL. I said I have learned in the labor movement to be 
deliberate, because the welfare of a lot of people is concerned. 

Mr. Walter. Do you think the CIO was deliberate when it reached 
its conclusion to expell your union from the CIO because it was 
Communist ? 

Mr. Nichol. Sir, I would like to make a statement about what the 
facts of that situation were. 

Mr. Walter. We know the facts. We know the facts very well. 
I want to know whether the decision was reached after due delibera- 
tion. 

Mr. NiCHOL. Our union withdrew from the CIO, refused to pay 
per capita, by direction of our national convention. 

Mr. Walter. All right. I know that. 

Mr. Nichol. AVell, that is a little different from the statement that 
the Congressman made. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions ? 

Mr. Doyle. No. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Frazier ? 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney. 

Mr. Kearney. Just one question : 

As a member of a union, you are working in a defense plant, 'and 
you saw a fellow member of your union creating an act of sabotage on 
defense work, would 3'ou turn him in ? 

Mr. NicHOL. I certainly would, sir; I am unalterably opposed to 
sabotage, or anything like it. 

Mr. Kearney. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Has counsel any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Any reason why this witness should not be excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. So ordered. 

( The witness was excused. ) 

Mr. Wood. Who have you next ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Milton Seif. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Seif, will you stand and be sworn, please ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you are about to give the 
committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing laut the 
truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Seif. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MILTON SEIF, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

HAROLD BUCHMAN 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 
Mr. Seif. Milton Seif. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel? 
Mr. Seif. I am. 

Mr, Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 
Mr. BuCHMAN. Harold Buchman, 213 Tower Building, Balti- 
more, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you presently employed, Mr. Seif ? 



•COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 901 

Mr. Seif. I am a Avelder in the Bethlehem Steel Ship Repair Yard 
in Baltimore, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been employed there ? 

Mr. Seif. Approximately 10 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Mary Stalcup Markward testified here the 
<lay before yesterday and identified you as a member of the Com- 
amniist Party. Was she correct in that identification? 

Mr. Seif, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. No. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. No. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Frazier ? 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney? 

Mr. Kearnet. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness should not be excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. So ordered. 

t( The witness was excused. ) 

Mr. Wood. Wlio do you have next? 

Mr. Tavenner. Irving Winkler. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Winkler, please stand and raise your right hand, 
please. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony jou are about to give 
the committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? ,y 

Mr. Winkler. Yes. 

TESTIMONY OP IRVING WINKLEE, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

HAROLD BUCHMAN 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Winkler. Irving Winkler. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. Winkler. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. BuciiMAN. Harold Buchman, 213 Tower Building, Balti- 
more. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you reside, Mr. Winkler ? 

Mr. Winkler. In Baltimore, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you employed ? 

Mr. Winkler. I am a maintenance mechanic. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where ? 

Mr. Winkler. Rheam Manufacturing Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been so employed ? 

Mr. Winkler. A little over a year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that how were you employed? 

Mr. Winkler. Prior to that I was employed as the manager of a 
cut-up poultry store. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you so employed? 

Mr. Winkler. Approximately a year. 



902 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that, how were you employed ? 

Mr. "Winkler. As a maintenance mechanic's helper. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere? 

Mr. Winkler. Kustless Iron and Steel. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you employed by Kustless Iron and 
Steel ? 

Mr. Winkler. A little over a year. Actually, I was employed by 
Rustless Iron and Steel for two periods. There was a lay-off lit 
between. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you employed the first time ? 

Mr. Winkler. I guess about — incidentally, I am submitting this 
employment record not on the basis of exact dates, you know, or exact 
periods of time. I mean, I am giving an approximation of my em- 
ployment record to the best of my knowledge at this point. 

Mr. Tavenner. Altogether, how long were you employed by Rust- 
less Iron and Steel ? 

Mr. Winkler. About a year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. AVinkler, Mrs. Mary Stalcup Markward testi- 
fied before this committee on Wednesday of this week and identified 
you as a person known to her to be a member of the Communist Party 
in Baltimore, Md. Was she correct in that statement ? 

Mr. Winkler. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of 
self-incrimination, on the grounds that an answer might tend to in- 
criminate me. Also, I would like to say that I wouldn't honor 

Mr. Wood. We are not concerned with your opinion. We want an. 
answer to the question. 

Mr. Winkler. I answered the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Just a moment. 

By whom did 3'ou say you were employed ? 

Mr. Winkler. Rheam ]\Ianufacturing Co. 

Mr. W^ooD. What business are they in ^ 

Mr. Winkler. They are metal fabricators. 

Mr. Wood. What particular kind of fabrication are they engaged in ? 

Mr. Winkler. They make steel drums, they make tanks, hot-water- 
heaters, pails, also they make containers for aircraft engines. I think- 
that is pretty much a total list of the products they make. 

Mr. Walter. I will have a question in a moment. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you know, is that the same concern that has a big 
factory out West, out in California ? 

Mr. W^inkler. They have a number of plants in the country, 1 
know that. I think they do have one in California. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask what your age is, please ? , 

Mr. Winkler. Twenty-seven. 

Mr, Doyle. Thank you. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Frazier ? 

Mr. Frazier. No. questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Kearney ? 

Mr. Kearney. Does j^our company have any defense plants that 
they are working on now — defense contracts ? 

Mr. Winkler. I wouldn't know. I assume that the manufacture of 
containers for aircraft engines, which is a part of their production, 
oomes under Government contract. 

Mr. Kearney. That is all. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 903 

Mr. Wood. Any reason why this witness should not be excused now, 
Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Taat^nner. I would like to ask the witness if he is a member of 
the Young People's Conference for Peace? 

Mr. Winkler. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it may incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Maryland Committee 
for Peace ? 

Mr. Winklj:r. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Irrespective of what anybody else has said heretofore, 
before this committee, or elsewhere, let me ask you the question 
•directly : 

Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Winkler. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood. That is all. 

The witness may be excused. 

The committee will stand in recess now, subject to notification being 
given. 

(The committee adjourned at 4 p. m.) 

X 



HEARINGS RELATING TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES 
IN THE DEFENSE AREA OF BALTIMORE-FART 2 

(MARYLAND COMMITTEE FOR PEACE AND 
BALTIMORE COUNTY COMMITTEE FOR PEACE) 




HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-SECOND CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



JUNE 28, JULY 10 AND 12, 1951 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 




UNITED STATES 
OOVEHNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
86629 WASHINGTON : 1951 




COaiMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives I 

JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman \ 

FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania HAROLD H. VELDB, Illinois | 

MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York i 

CLYDE DOYLE, California DONALD L. JACKSON, California ] 

JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan I 

Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel \ 
Louis J. Russell, Senior Investigator 

John W. Carrington^ Clerk of Committee , 
Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 

n i 



CONTENTS 



June 28, 1951— P«se 

Testimony of Howard Bernard Silverberg 905 

July 10, 1951— 

Testimony of Ruth Harriet Bleier 913 

July 12, 1951— 

Testimony of — 

Louis Julius Shub 940 

Gunther Wertheimer 946 

ni 



HEARINGS RELATING TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN 
THE DEFENSE AREA OF BALTIMORE— PART 2 

(Maryland Committee for Peace and Baltimore 
County Committee for Peace) 



THURSDAY, JUNE 28, 1951 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee on 

Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. C. 

PUBLIC hearing 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con- 
tinued the hearing on the above date, at 3:45 p. m., in room 226, Old 
House Office Building, Hon. Francis E. Walter presiding.^ 

Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter, 
James B. Frazier, Jr., Bernard W. Kearney, Donald L. Jackson, and 
Clyde Doyle (appearance noted in printed hearing) . 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Thomas W. 
Beale, Sr., assistant counsel ; Donald T. Appell, investigator ; Raphael 
I. Nixon, director of research ; John W. Carrington, clerk ; and A. S. 
Poore, editor. 

Mr. Walter. Will you call the witness, Mr, Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Howard Silverberg. 

Mr. Walter. Will you hold up your right hand. Do you swear 
the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God % 

Mr. Silverberg. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HOWARD BERNARD SILVERBERG, ACCOMPANIED 
BY HIS COUNSEL, HAROLD BUCHMAN 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please? 

Mr. Silverberg. My full name is Howard Bernard Silverberg, and 
I want to protest the bandying around of that name as a result of 
this investigation. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. Silverberg. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. BuCHMAN. Harold Buchman, 213 Tower Building, Baltimore, 
Md. 



^ Testimony of the preceding witnesses heard by the Committee on Un-American Activi- 
ties on this day, Sam Fox, is printed in other volumes under same main title, pt. 1, with 
subtitle, "Based on Testimony of Mary Stalcup Markward," and that of William Spiegel 
and Max Weinstock under pt. 3. 

905 



906 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA ^ 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where yon born, Mr. Silverberg? 

Mr. Silverberg. Winston-Salem, N. C, April 30, 1917. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly your educational training? 

Mr. Silverberg. High-school graduate and several years of evening 
college. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Silverberg. Yon mean the address? 3120 Baybriar Road, 
Baltimore, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Baltimore ? 

Mr. Silverberg. Since 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that where did you reside ? 

Mr. Silverberg. In New York City and Philadelphia. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just immediately prior to your coming to Baltimore, 
where did you reside? 

Mr. Silverberg. In Philadelphia. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you live there? 

Mr. Silverberg. It was a relatively short time. I don't think it 
was more than about a year. 

Mr. Tavenner. And prior to that you lived in New York ? 

Mr. Silverberg. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you now employed ? 

Mr. Silverberg. I am a mechanic's helper at the Bethlehem Steel 
Co., Sparrows Point, Md. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have yon worked there? 

Mr. Silverberg. Since 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that how were you employed? 

Mr. Silverberg (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to 
answer that question on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. When 3^ou lived in Philadelphia how were you em- 
ployed ? 

Mr. Silverberg. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Taatnner. When you left New York for Philadelphia, how 
were you employed? 

Mr. Silverberg. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been employed by the United States 
Government ? 

Mr. Silverberg. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you affiliated in any manner with the Balti- 
more County Committee for Peace? 

Mr. Silverberg. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me, and I understood this was an investi- 
gation of activities in the defense plants in Baltimore, and I can't 
see the relationship. 

Mr. Tavenner. I don't know where you got your information from. 
The only announcement on the subject was the official announcement 
of the chairman that it was an investigation of communism in defense 
areas in Baltimore, not necessarily defense plants. 

Mr. Silverberg. You asked me about a peace committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Are you affiliated with it ? 

Mr. Silverberg. I refuse to answer the question on grounds it may 
tend to incriminate me. 



1 



I 






COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 907 

Mr. Tavi:nner. I show you an advertisement from the Communist 
press of March 2, 1951, which emphasizes bringing our boys home 
from Korea alive, and making peace in Asia, and urges the readers 
to "Join with your neighbors in the American Peace Crusade." 

Will you look at it and state whether or not you and your wife 
paid for that advertisement? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to an- 
swer that question on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me, but 
I want to say I believe in the sentiments, "Pray for peace,'' "Work for 
peace," "Speak up now for peace," "War is not inevitable." 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Are you in favor of peace on Communist terms? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG (after conferring with his counsel) . I refuse to an- 
swer that question on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. I 
am in favor of peace. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your residence address ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. 3120 Baybriar Road. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the same address as that which appears at 
the bottom of this advertisement ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I refusc to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will vou state again what your correct address 
is? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. My correct address is 3120 Baybriar Road. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is the same address as appears on the ad- 
vertisement. At the bottom of the advertisement this language ap- 
pears : 

For more information write: Baltimore County Committee for Peace, 3120 
Baybriar Road, Baltimore 22, Md. 

Did you consult with anyone known to you to be a member of the 
Communist Party in connection with your activity with the Baltimore 
County Committee for Peace ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I rcfuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me, and once more I resent the inference that 
people engaged in working for peace are necessarily or in any other 
way connected with the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. They are not necessarily connected, but we are en- 
deavoring to find out the extent to which they were connected in this 
particular instance. 

What was the Communist Party connection, if any, with the Balti- 
more County Committee for Peace ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me, no matter what the intent of it is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mr. William H. Wood? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I rcfusc to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live during the time you resided in 
Philadelphia? 

Mr. SiL\^RBERG. I don't recollect. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live at the time you resided in New 
York? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I livcd in quite a few places in New York. As a 
matter of fact, I lived in Manhattan and also in Brooklyn. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live when you were in Manhattan ? 



908 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. SiLVERBERG (after conferring with his counsel). I believe the 
address was 2262 Amsterdam Avenue. 

Mr. Tavenner. And when you lived in the Bronx where did you 
live? 

Mr. Sil\t:rberg. I didn't say the Bronx. I said Brooklyn. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Where did you live in Brooklyn ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I had several successive addresses there over a 
period of years. The only one I can remember is 5120 Carroll Street. 

Mr. Tavenner. I mentioned the Bronx. Did you live in the Bronx ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. No, I did not. 

Excuse me. I believe that address I gave you on Carroll Street 
is confused with some other address. I couldn't be sure of that street 
number. I know it was Carroll Street, though. 

Mr. Tavenner. While living in the State of New York, did you 
sign a Communist Party nominating petition for New York State in 
1940? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time of the holding of the conference of the 
American Peace Crusade in Washington on March 15, 1951, did you, 
with other Maryland representatives, call upon Members of Con- 
gress and represent yourselves as voicing the views of the steelworkers 
at Sparrows Point on outlawing the Arbomb and returning all sol- 
diers from Korea? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your local, the number of your local, in 
Bethlehem Steel? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I Fsfuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you hold any official position in your union? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I haven't yet said anything about being a member 
of any union, Mr. Chairman, and I refuse to answer the question on 
grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Walter. Do you think you would be incriminated if you ad- 
mitted you belonged to local 2609? 

Mr. SiL\'ERBERG. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Walter. Is that because local 2609 commended this committee 
on the work it is doing in clarifying the atmosphere? 

Mr. Silv-erberg. I refuse to answer that question on grounds it may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Walter. In other words, you are not in agreement with the 
position taken by the heads of local 2609 ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I rcfusc to give any answer to that question on 
grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now or have you ever been a member of 
the Communist Party ? I 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I rcfuse to answer that question on grounds it' 
may tend to incriminate me, and I would like to observe that either a 
yes or no answer to that question may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Walter. Why do you feel it w^ould be incriminating if you 
denied ever having been a member of the Communist Party ? 



et 

i 



I 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 909 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. Because some company stooge whose duty it is to 
make blacklists is sure to come forward and say I am. 

Mr. Walter. Suppose you say you are not ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. His testimony would be taken against mine. 

Mr. Walter. Your testimony is under oath. If you swear you are 
not a member of the Communist Party, that is the end of it. 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. Nevertheless, I refuse to answer the question on the 
grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Frazier? 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Silverberg, in the beginning of your testimony 
you protested the "bandying around" of your name. Will you tell 
us what you meant by that? 

Mr. Siln-erberg. The fact that my name has appeared in the news- 
papers on several occasions in connection with this investigation, kind 
of slung around with other names, and slung around rather indiscrim- 
inately. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you think your reputation has been damaged by 
that so-called "bandying around"? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I think the mere fact of a person being subpenaed 
by this committee, with the history of this committee, is more or less 
damaging to him. 

Mr. Jackson. I think more witnesses have been damaged by the 
nature of their testimony than by the fact they have appeared before 
this committee. However, I can suggest a way in which you can 
obviate any damage to your reputation, and that is by saying you 
are not now and never have been a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I have refused to answer that question on grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. Then any assumption by anyone in the country as a 
result of your appearance before this committee will come, not from 
the bandying around of your name by anyone connected with this 
committee, but by the nature of your testimony. 

Mr. Walter. When was your name bandied around ? I was under 
the impression the names of witnesses were not made public by the 
committee. Do you mean today or as of now ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. Various newspaper stories that appeared in Balti- 
more carried my name in connection with this investigation. 

Mr. Walter. How long ago did this occur ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. Siuce the investigation began. And I would like 
to say that it was something which caused a good deal of inconvenience 
and discomfort to me in my place of employment; because the opinion 
of various of the other workers in my mill, regardless of any telegram 
such as I heard read today, is also that the Un-American Committee 
has somewhat of a history of doing this sort of thing. 

Mr. Walter. Wliat sort of thing? 

Mr. SIL^'ERBERG. A history of going into people's lives, of going into 
people's private affairs, of going into people's relationships and asso- 
ciations and trying to establish guilt by those associations. 

Mr. Walter. Wouldn't it be a very simple thing to eliminate any 
possibility that you might be suspect by answering the questions asked 
you by Mr. Tavenner and Mr. Jackson ? 

86629— 51— pt. 2 2 



910 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. It has been mj^ experience that the word of an 

informer somehow seems to have more stature, even though both are | 
under oath, than the word of the person falsely accused; and it is j 
obvious to me that this committee is makino; liberal use of informers. •; 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Silverberg, you were subpenaed because this com- * 
mittee felt you had information that would be quite valuable in the I 
work of this committee. We didn't just pick you up because of your 
appearance or your name or anything of the sort. You were sub- : 
penaed because the committee felt you could come in and tell us j 
frankly, as a good American citizen, who was back of this so-called ' 
Peace Crusade. We had heard it was a Communist front, and we had ; 
hoped you would cooperate by telling us the nature of this organiza- i 
tion carrying this fine-sounding name. 

This committee is not desirous of casting any reflections on anyone, i 
However, we are very well aware of a great many things that a lot of ' 
fine, unsuspecting people in America are not aware of. I 

Mr, Silverberg, I would simply like to point out, from reading | 
that advertisement you just handed me, it occurs to me that the pro- I 
posals made in that advertisement do not differ in any way from the j 
proposals made by Senator Johnson on the Senate floor, where he , 
asked for cease-fire on June 25, and called for the removal of troops j 
from Korea ; and I resent any implication that people who speak up j 
for this thing have to be suspected of having some connection with any j 
other movement. 

Mr. Walter. Senator Johnson has been terribly embarrassed by i 
the people his statement attracted to him. 

Mr. Jackson. Is this Peace Crusade the same organization which is i 
holding a meeting in Chicago on June 29-July 1 at the Coliseum, do 
you know ? 

Mr. Silverberg. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Jackson. For the record it should be stated that the State , 
Department has issued a statement with respect to the meeting of the ( 
American Peace Crusade to be held in the Chicago Coliseum between ; 
June 29 and July 1, the statement being to the efi'ect that it has been | 
well infiltrated by Communist elements in this country. , 

So far as peace is concerned, I might say to the witness that every , 
man on this committee has made a substantial contribution to his ! 
concept of peace. We don't take issue with your being for peace. It \ 
is a splendid idea. It depends on what kind of peace it is. , 

Do 3^ou feel that the nature of your testimony today before this | 
committee has done away with any irritation which may have been 
felt by your fellow workers upon the appearance of your name in | 
the paper ? 

Mr, Silverberg. I won't know that until I return to my mill. I 

Mr. Jackson. If we can believe the telegram received by the chair- \ 
man of this committee from the local, it would appear that the mem- | 
bers of the local are wholeheartedly in accord with the investigation 1 
of the committee. ! 

Mr. Walter. Any further questions Mr, Tavenner ? > 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated pretty plainly your views regarding • 
your support of the peace move back on March 15, 1951, under the ; 
heading of the American Peace Crusade.  



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 911 

Mr. SiL\TERBERG. I statecl I agreed with the sentiments expressed in 
that advertisement. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. That is not the same thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. This is a statement made b}^ Secretary of State 
Acheson on February 20 of this year, prior to the holding of that 
meeting. He said this : , 

In his latest manifestation of the Partisans of Peace, American Peace Crusade, 
or Peace Pilgrimage, or whatever name it goes by at the time, the same people 
are calling for the same things, but this time they have added two more points. 

The first is that the Peace Crusade calls for the UN forces to withdraw from 
Korea. The Cominform has been calling for an immediate withdrawal from 
Korea, too. The Cominform wants us to withdraw from Korea because if we 
do withdraw, it will mean that we are not willing to resist aggression wherever 
it may break out. 

Mr. SiL^^RBERG. Russians don't like earthquakes and neither do we. 
That does not make us Communists. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you think we should resist aggression wherever 
it may break out ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. Certainly. Aggression against our Nation has to 
be resisted. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Do you tliink the United States was wrong in resist- 
ing the Communist aggression in Korea ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I have no opinion to express on that at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a matter of fact, weren't you taking just the 
opposite view? Wasn't this meeting of March 15 timed to events in 
Korea, and at that particular time you were sponsoring the with- 
drawal of our troops from Korea? 

Mr. SIL^TRBERG. You are still trying to^ connect me with that meet- 
ing, and I refuse to answer the question on grounds it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me add this further statement from Secretary 
Acheson's pronouncement : 

Voluntary withdrawal from Korea would be a clear indication to the forces of 
international com,munism that the United States, as the leader of the forces of 
the United Nations was abdicating its responsibilities abandoning its allies, and 
renouncing the moral force which has made this country what it is. 

Do you agree or disagree with that statement ? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I would like to say I am not alone in having my 
reservations in regard to Mr. Acheson, and I refuse to answer the 
question on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. You feel that to pronounce your true views regard- 
mg the Peace Crusade might subject you to criminal prosecution? 

Mr. SiLVERBERG. I feel nothing of the kind. I am refusing to answer 
the questions that you have directed to me on the grounds it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

]\Ir. Ta\t:nner. By tending to incriminate, you mean it might sub- 
ject you to criminal prosecution to answer ? 

]\Ir. SiLVERBERG. I rcfuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. The witness may be excused, 

(Witness excused.) 

Testimony of the next witness, Eli Isidore Schwartz, is printed in 
another volume under same main title. Part 1, with subtitle, "Based 
on Testimony of Mary Stalcup Markward.") 



HEARINGS RELATING TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN 
THE DEFENSE AREA OF BALTIMORE— PART 2 

(Maryland Committee for Peace and Baltimore^Coiinty 

Committee for Peace) 



TUESDAY, JULY 10, 1951 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. G. 

public hearing 

The Committee on Un-American Activities continned the hearing 
on the above date, at 2 :45 p. m., in room 226, Old Hon^e Office Build- 
ing, Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) presiding.^ 

Committee members present : Representatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man), Francis E. Walter, Clyde Doyle, James B. Frazier, Jr., Harold 
H. Velde, Bernard W. Kearney (appearance noted in hearing), and 
Donald L. Jackson. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel; Donald T. Appell, investigator; 
Rapliael I. Nixon, director of research; John W. Carrington, clerk; 
and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. Who is the witness, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Ruth Bleier. 

Mr. Wood. Mrs. Bleier, before you take your seat, will you hold up 
your right hand and be sworn ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give this com- 
mittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mrs. Bleier. I do. 

Mr. Wood. Have a seat. 

TESTIMONY OF RUTH HARRIET BLEIER, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 

COUNSEL, DAVID REIN 

Mr. Tavenner. State your name. 

Dr. Bleier. Ruth Harriet Bleier. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I suggest you change seats with your counsel ? 
It may be a little easier for the witness and the reporter. 

Mr. Wood. And may I suggest in answering questions you elevate 
your voice so you can be heard up here ? 



' Testimony of the preceding witnesg heard by the Committee on Un-American Activities 
on this day, Harold Buehman, la printed in another volume under same title, pt. 3. 

913 



914 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Dr. Bleier. Yes ; I will. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Rein. David Rein, 711 Fourteenth Street, Washington, D. C. 

Dr. Bleier. Mr. Tavenner, members of the committee, I would like 
to request 3 minutes to read a statement which I have prepared, which 
presents my full position. 

Mr. Wood. We will be happy to have you file your written statement 
with the clerk there, and it will be considered by the committee. 

(The statement referred to was filed with the committee.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Is the name Ruth Bleier your real name at this time 
or a professional name? 

Dr. Bleier. That is my professional name. 

Mr. Tavenner, What is your actual name ? 

Dr. Bleier. You are referring, I presume, to my married namp.2 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Dr. Bleier. Eisenberg. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the name again, please? 

Dr. Bleier. Ruth Eisenberg. 

(Representative Bernard W. Kearney entered hearing room.) 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. Wliat was your maiden name ? 

Dr. Bleier. Bleier. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where and when were you born ? 

Dr. Bleier. I was born in Pittsburgh, Pa., in November of 1923. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you outline your educational background for 
the committee, please ? 

Dr. BLEpR. Yes. I went to elementary school, public high schools, 
4 years of college, attaining a Bachelor of Arts degree, spent two 
sunnners in summer school, and 4 years of medical school. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you attend medical school? 

Dr. Bleier. Women's Medical College in Philadelphia, Pa. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you in school there ? 

Dr. Bleier. From 1945 to 1949. 

Mr. Tavenner. What degree did you receive? 

Dr. Bleier. Doctor of medicine. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you outline to the committee what your 
employment or your professional record has been since the completion 
of your medical training? 

Dr. Bleier. I have spent 2 years in hospital training. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where? 

Dr. Bleier. In Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what hospital ? 

Dr. Bleier. At the Sinai Hospital. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you do intern work in Philadelphia before 
coming to Baltimore? 

Dr. Bleier. No, I didn't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Bleier, your subpena calls upon you to produce 
the books and records of the Maryland Committee for Peace, and you 
were instructed through your counsel, Mr. Forer, that the committee 
at this time would be satisfied with the records of receipts, disburse- 
ments, and membership. Do you have those records with you ? 

Dr. Bleier. Yes, I do. I have these records here but in turning 
them over I would like to make two points very clear to the commit- 
tee. The first is that I do turn them over. I have all of the records 
and books of the Maryland Committee for Peace in my possession 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 915 

but I turn them over to you under the greatest protest as an outrage, 
as a violation and as a betrayal of the overwhelming hope of the peo- 
ple of the world and America for peace, which we are this very day 
hoping to find beginning — 

Air. Wood, Just a minute. The committee is not concerned with 
3'our views on the subject. The question is: Do you have the records 
here ? 

Dr. Bleier. Yes, I do, but I must insist on stating two things, 

Mr. Wood. We have no objection to your saying you turn them over 
with protest but as to your feelings on the views of this committee, 
we are not interested. Let us stick to the point. It is not necessary 
for you to make a speech on the subject. 

Dr. Bleier. I feel it is within my legal rights to make a certain point 
because of advice of my counsel, and I feel I have a right to explain it. 

Mr. Wood. No. This committee has a legal right to subpena this 
record and that is in the record. 

Dr. Bleier. I would like to go on to my second point and that is 
the point that I am producing this record upon subpena upon advice 
of my counsel that my privilege under the fifth amendment does not 
apply to papers belonging to an organization, but in turning these 
over, I do not intend to waive my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Wood. All right, turn them over to counsel. 

Dr. Bleier. I would like to add, Mr. Tavenner, you made reference 
to a letter from my counsel advising me what the records would in- 
clude. I want to mention, as I said, these are all the records and 
books of the Maryland Committee for Peace, and does not include 
membership lists. There are no members, 

Mr. Tavenner. Then the records which you have turned over do 
not include a list of members ? 

Dr. Bleier. That is right, because there are no members. 

Mr. Wood. There are no members ? 

Dr. Bleier. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. By that do you mean that the organization is dis- 
banded at this time ? 

Dr. Bleier. It is not a membership organization. It is a committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well the committee must be composed of members. 

Dr. Bleier. As I stated, Mr. Tavenner, these are all the books and 
records. There are no membership lists at all. 

Mr, Tavenner. But there were members of the committee, 

Dr, Bleier. There were no members, consequently there are no mem- 
bership lists. 

Mr. Tavenner. You, in fact, are a member of the committee your- 
self, aren't you ? 

Dr. Bleier. I have not so testified. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, aren't you ? 

Dr. Bleeer. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Evidently there nuist be members of the committee 
if you are unwilling to state whether you were a member, so I would 
like you to comply with the subpena served on you and supply this 
committee with a list containing the names of the members of the 
committee. 

Mr. Rein. May I consult with my client ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 



I 

916 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

(The witness consulted with her counsel.) 

Dr. Bleier. I am not sure I made my point clear. There are n 
membership records. There are no membership lists and there neve 
have been. 

Mr. Tavenner. There are members, so you give us the names, re 
gardless of whether you have a list or not. 

Dr. Bleier. There are no members of the Maryland Committee fc 
Peace. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who comprised the committee of which you hav 
produced the records and books? Who comprised the committee? 

Dr. Bleler. I refuse to answer that question on the previousl; 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you are retreating from your position tha 
there are no members, but you are just not willing to state who th' 
members are ? 

Dr. Bleier. I am not retreating from any position. I am statin* 
what is an absolute fact. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is that ? 

Dr. Bleier. That there are no members of the Maryland Commit 
tee for Peace. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why do you refuse to answer who the members are 

Dr. Bleier. Your question was who comprises the membership. 

Mr. Tavenner. And I do repeat, who comprises the committee?  

Dr. Bleier. And I state again there are no members of the Maryj 
land Committee for Peace. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have officers of the committee? This h 
rather novel, an organization without members. A skeleton withouj 
bones. 

Dr. Bleier. Well, if I may make a comment there, the skeleton has 
many bones. The bones compose all of those hundreds of thousands 
of people in Baltimore who have spoken out for peace, and the mill 
lions of people in America who have spoken out for peace. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes; but those bones are connected by tissue anc 
muscle and they are the officers of the committee. Will you tell ui 
who they are ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously statec 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does the committee have a chairman ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds thai 
the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does the committee have a secretary ? i 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer t.^at question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Am I to infer that there is some possibility you maj 
be both chairman and secretary ? 

Dr. Bleier. I think you are free to make any sort of conclusion yoi 
like. I am refusing to answer the question on the grounds that I hav( 
stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you testify before the Senate committee thai 
the secretary of your organization was Mrs. Wertheimer, whose nam( 
was, I believe, Joan Wertheimer ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. ] 

I 

j 

i 

i 



; COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 917 

Mr. Taat^nner. You did testify before a Senate committee did you 
lot, in 1949, I believe. I believe you appeared before the Senate For- 
iign Relations and Armed Services Committee on February 20, 1951. 
rhat was just a few months ago. Isn't that correct? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it 
nay tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. You Avere asked there the question about five times 
is to who was the secretary of this association called the Maryland 
>nnnittee for Peace, before you finally answered that it was Mrs. 
Foan Wertheimer, did you not ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously stated 
'rounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your reason in hesitating when you tes- 
ified before the Senate committee to name the secretary of your 
ssociation? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Taat.nner. Will you tell the committee how the Maryland 
>mmittee for Peace way organized ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
he answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee when it was organized ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Wood. I don't know how I can remind the witness to keep her 
'oice up so the committee members can hear her. 

Dr. Bleier. I will make a redoubled effort. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has been endeavoring, Dr. Bleier, to 
inderstand more about the formation of the association for which 
'^ou have produced certain records and documents. The committee has 
nformation that it was organized as a result of consultation by the 
(lembers of the Conununist Party and it was influenced and controlled 
>y Communists. We would like to give you this opportunity to en- 
ighten the committee on that subject, or if it is not true, to deny it. 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
he answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Wood, i can't hear vou. I assume vou are refusing to answer 
he question but I can't hear you saying it. Is that what you said'^ 

Dr. Bleier. Yes; it is. 

Mr. Tavenner. On September 28, 1950, Mr. Robert Montgomery 
lad something to say about your organization over the radio. He 
aid, "The Maryland Committee for Peace is a Communist front, it 
ras born in a Communist cell in Baltimore. It was created bj^ Com- 
lunists, is sponsored by Communist money, and is directed by active 
•arty members." Have you ever denied that publicly 'i 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously stated 
rounds. 

ISIr. Tavenner. Are you yourself a member of the Communist 
'arty ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously 
tated grounds. 

I want to say that I object very much to this type of inquiry into the 
lasic beliefs and opinions of an individual. I think that all American 
itizens are protected by the Bill of Rights of our Constitution to have 
omplete freedom of thought. 

8r)f>29— 51 — pt. 2 3 



918 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Certainly the Constitution sliould protect the public ' 
from having a hoax performed upon it through an organization such J 
as yours, as to which apparently the members are not willing to state j 
anything regarding its purposes or how it was organized, how it is \ 
financed, or what the alSiliation of the persons are who control it. .1 

Dr. Bleier. I think there should be no question in anybody's mind ■; 
about where any type of peace activity stems from but from the really ; 
fervent desires of the American people for peace. j 

Mr. Tavenner. But if it is a peace on Communist terms instead of ;; 
the interests of this country, it is a different proposition. ; 

Dr. Bleier. Gentlemen, the peace which the people of the United j 
States have been seeking is seeing its fruition today in Kaesong, Korea. J 

Mr. Kearney. Would you answer if you were asked whether youj 
were a member of the Republican or Democratic Party? I 

Dr. Bleier. (after conferring with her counsel). Well — f 

Mr. Kearney. Let me put it this way, are you an enrolled member | 
of the Republican Party? i 

Dr. Bleier. Again I think this is blatant ] 

Mr. Kearney. I am not asking you what you think. I am asking / 
you to answer the question. 

Dr. Bluer. This is going far beyond the realm of the boundaries 
of this committee to inquire into the political beliefs of an individual. 

Mr. Kearney. Will you answer the question? Are you a member 
of the Republican Party? 

Dr. Bleier. I must ask you to respect the right of an individual to 
his political beliefs. 

Mr. Kearney. Are you a member of the Republican Party? 

Dr. Bleier. (after conferring with her counsel). 1 refuse to an- 
swer on the grounds that it might— — 

Mr. Kearney. It might incriminate you? Are you a member of 
the Democratic Party? Do you have the same answer to that ques- 
tion? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Kearney. Are you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 
Philadelphia in 1948? 

Dr. Bleier. 1 refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavi<:nner. AVhen did you leave Philadelphia for Baltimore? 

Dr. Bleier. 1949. 

Mr. Tavenner. What time in 1949? 

Dr. Bleier. 1 believe it was the end of June. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you married before your arrival in Balti- 
more or were you married after that ? 

Dr. Bleier. 1 was married before. 

Mr. Tavenner. On your arrival in Baltimore did you meet an 
individual by the name of Philip Frankfeld? 

Dr. Bleier. 1 refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you call upon the Communist headquarters in 
Baltimore on iVugust oi), 1949? 

Dr. Bleier. i refuse to answer that question on the previously stated 
grounds. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE -DEFENSE AREA 919 

JSIr. Tavennek. Are you acquainted with Joan AVertlieimer? 

Dr. Bleier. 1 refuse to answer tliat question on the grounds that 
tlie answer may tend to incriminate me. 

jylr. Tavennek. Are you acquainted with Gunther Wertlieimer? 

Dr. Bleier. 1 refuse" to answer tliat questicm for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavennek. Are you acquainted with Louis Shub? 

Dr. Bi.EiEK. 1 refuse to answer that question on the previously stated 
grounds. 

Mv. Taatsnner. And Dr. Bleier, isn't it true that you and the three 
persons whom 1 just mentioned were the originators of the Mary- 
land Committee for Peace? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question because it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavennek. On a hasty examination of the records which you 
turned over, we find receipted bills and canceled checks, but we do 
not find any record indicating the source of the income or the source 
of the receipts from which those bills were paid or upon which those 
checks were drawn. What was the source of the income '( 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously 
stated ground: . 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any records showing the source of the 
receipts ? 

Dr. Bleier. Those records are all the books and records of the 
Maryland Committee for Peace. 

Mr. TA^^iNNER. You have bank statements showing the amount of 
deposits. Can you tell what date the bank statements begin as to 
what date is the first entry ? Do you have an idea 'i 

Dr. Bleier. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you maintain more than one bank accouu( '( 

Dr. Bleier. I think these records should speak for themselves. I 
believe not. You will have to examine the records and see. 

Mr. Tavenner. The records that we have before us seem to show 
deposits to the account of Maryland Committee for Peace, Kuth 
Bleier, M. D., 1033 North Broadway, Baltimore 5, Md., at the Fidelity 
Trust Co., Baltimore, Md. Was there an account opened at any 
other bank at which funds the Maryland Committee for Peace was 
entitled to receive were deposited? 

Dr. Bleier. Not to my knowledge. 

JNIr. Tavenner, Did you ever have any additional account in any 
bank other than this one which bears your name ? 

Dr. Bi-EiEK. Are you asking about me personally? 

Mr. Tavenner. Of the Maryland Committee for Peace. The rec- 
ords that you turned over show that the deposits were in the name and 
the account Avas carried as Maryland Committee for Peace, Ruth 
Bleier, 1033 North Broadway, Baltimore 5, Md. 
i Dr. Bleier. For the Maryland Committee for Peace ? 
* (Representative Francis E. Walter left hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. In which the Maryland Committee for Peace had 
Hiiy interest, directly or indirectly? 

Dr. Bleier. The records that I have produced are all of the records, 
including the bank statements, record of deposits of the Maryland 
Committee for Peace. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand, but will you answer my question, 
please ? 



920 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Dr. Bleier. Well, no. ,i 

Mr. Tavenner. The answer is "No?" ;; 

Dr. Bleier. That is right ; not to my knowledge. | 

Mr, Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, will you give me a few minutes to I 
examine these records? There may be some question which I can ask, 1 
which may save recalling the witness. 

Dr. Bleier, in preparing to present these records to the committee ; 
under the subpena, did you ask the bank to furnish- you with all of : 
the documents and checks and vouchers which it had up to and in- > 
eluding the present time? 

Dr. Bleier. Will you repeat the question, please ? ] 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. You have furnished us here with certain bank ; 
statements and vouchers. Do they come up to the present date or \ 
does the bank still have any other documents, any other bank state- 
ments and vouchers, which you have not accounted for ? 

Dr. Bleier. Well, so far as I know these are all of the vouchers and 
statements. 

Mr. Taa^nner. And did you inquire from the bank for the latest 
statement to get your last voucher? 

Dr. Bleier. Well, I would presume that all of the statements are 
ke])t up to date by the bank when they are sent to any depositor. 

Mr. Tavenner. The last charge against your bank account is for 
$13.47 under date of April 3, 1951. Well, surely you have bank state- 
ments later than that if you have been conducting any business since 

April 1951? 

Dr. Bleier (after conferring with her counsel). May I 

Mr. Wood. In other words, do I understand that the records which 
have been submitted here reflect no deposits or withdrawals from 
the bank since April ? 

Dr. Bleier. May I call your attention to something? In compli- 
ance with the subpena I did' produce all of the books and records which 
were in my possession, and if they fall short of the time, that lag 
is made up by the checkbook, which brings it up to date. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean there may be another checkbook ? 

Dr. Bleier. No, that; there is no other checkbook. That is the 
complete record that you have there. 

Mr. Tavenner. This seems to be the last checkbook as I see an 
item of June 27, 1951, but there is no corresponding bank statement 
or voucher from the period of April 1951 until the present date, and 
I am asking you about those. i 

Dr. Bleier (after conferring with her counsel). Again I will have i 
to repeat that everything you have is what was in my possession, j 
If there is something missing, if the bank has not brought it up to | 
date, I think that can be looked into. \ 

Mr. Ta^t:nner. Well, I see. As I mentioned, the last check is | 
dated June 27, 1951, and it is payable to the Pennsylvania Eailroad ; 
Co. in the amount of $1,002.77 for Chicago fares. Will you explain I 
what that item is, please ? ! 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kearney. What date is that ? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. June 27. 

Now, where were you on June 28, in Chicago ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 921 

Dr. Bleier (after conferring with her counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you were originally served with a subpena 
to appear here on June 29, didn't you ask the indulgence of the com- 
mittee to postpone your appearance on the ground that you were 
needed in connection with your position as intern at the hospital? 
Didn't you make that request of the connnittee ? 

Dr. Bleier. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. But as a matter of fact you never intended to be 
at the hospital at all to practice as an intern at the hospital on that 
date, but you intended to be at the American People's Congress, an 
exposition for peace, in Chicago, for which this very check was given 
in payment of your fare and others; isn't that correct? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner, I don't care to ask any other questions, Mr. Chair- 
man. 

Mr. Wood. Are there any questions? 

(Representative Francis E. Walter returned to hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Except, Mr. Chairman, I may want to recall the 
witness after I have had an opportunity to examine the records which 
have been brought. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. During my absence from the room I believe Mr. 
Tavenner interrogated the doctor concerning the American People's 
Congress and Peace Exposition in Chicago. Did you attend that 
meeting ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Walter. I think that that meeting is the meeting that the De- 
partment of State described in a press release dated June 22, 1951, in 
which the Secretary of State describes it as a Communist movement 
or Communist-dominated movement. You say you refuse to answer 
the question as to whether or not you attended it? 

Dr. Bleier. I did, but I think it should be noted that in that same 
statement that was issued by Mr. Dean Acheson from the State De- 
partment that he also called subversive any peace program which was 
seeking for an end of the war in Korea and for negotiations among the 
five great powers to achieve world peace. 

Mr. Walter. I think you missed the point if that is your impression 
of what the Secretary of State said. He merely pointed out that this 
is one of those Communist movements and was not initiated for the 
best interests of the United States. 

I believe you refused to answer the question as to where the funds 
came from that supported this Maryland Committee for Peace on the 
grounds that the answer to the quesion might incriminate you ; is that 
correct ? 

Dr. Bleier. That is right. 

Mr. Walter. Well, the fact of the matter is that the income of that 
organization came from the Communist Party, didn't it? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the stated grounds. 

Mr. Walter. And isn't that why you refuse ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer on the previously stated grounds. 



922 COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Walter. And the fact that the Communist Party financed this 
movement certainly offers conclusive proof that this movement is 
Communist dominated ; isn't that a fact ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer the question. I resent this type of 
badgering of me. 

Mr. Walter. I supposed you would. No further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. Doctor, I haven't yet seen the checks that were written 
against this deposit in the bank, so I haven't yet seen the hand- 
writing on the checks. Did you write all the checks and sign them 
against the account? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds of self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Doyle. They were drawn. Well, are the checks on this account 
in your handwriting? I see the counsel has a group of checks there. 
You understand my question. I mean you were the one who drew the 
money on the different checks, weren't you? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer the question on the previously stated 
grounds. 

Mr. Doyle. The counsel is showing you a check now. Is that in your 
handwriting ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am showing the witness now a check stub dated 
June 27 made payable to the Pennsylvania Eailroad Co. in the amount 
of $1,002.77 

Mr. Wood. Do I understand that your question is in regard to the 
wanting or entry on that stub ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes; Mr. Wood, 

Mr. Wood. Dr. Bleier, will you answer that question ? 

Dr. Bleier. I beg your pardon? 

Mr. Wood. Whether the entry on the stub of the check showing pay- 
ment of the amount of $1,002.77 in payment of fares is in your hand- 
writing. 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that the 
answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I was in error in referring to the 
check bearing the date of June 27, It appears to be the 26th. I think 
I should correct that for the record, but the stub shows that on June 
27, which is the date I was reading out, there was deposited to the 
account $941.90. I will ask you if that isn't written in the same hand- 
writing as the check itself? 

Dr. Bleier. I am afraid I am no handwriting expert. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether it is? 

Dr. Bleier. It is impossible for me to tell that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state the source of the $9-11.90? Where 
did that money come from? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer on the previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you deposit the $941.90 in the bank, in the Fidel- 
ity Trust Co. bank, to the account of the Maryland Committee for 
Peace ? 

Dr. Bleier. I must refuse to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Wood. Well, then, in order to clarify the record, the question 
asked by Mr. Doyle was whether or not those entries on that stub or 
memorandum of that check, whatever date they bear, whether it is 



COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 923 

the 26th or 27th, or both, I believe— one date indicates the deposit on 
the 26th and the check on the 2Tth. You are ordered to answer that 
question. . . 

Dr. Tjleier. That is a question I refuse to answer, clanning my 
privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Wood. Are you still refusing to answer that question after the 
demand that you do so, and I do now demand that you do so. 

Dr. Bleier."^ I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Wood. Proceed, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. Doctor, in this group of records that are produced are 
there any bank deposit slips; do you know? You received deposit 
receipts from the bank, of course, as deposits were made, didn't you? 
I mean they gave you a deposit slip showing you what amount wus 
deposited at the bank ? Where are those deposit slips ? 

Dr. Bleier. I presume that if there are deposit slips they are among 
the records there because they are the complete records. 

Mr. Doyle. As deposits were made you were given slips showing 
the amounts of the deposits. 

Dr. Bleier. I can only repeat if deposit slips were given, they are 
among these exhibits. 

Mr. Doyle. Doctor, I am a banker, too, when I work at it and the 
practice is to give a depositor a slip showing the deposit and when the 
deposits are made, entries are made. 

Dr. Bleier. I haven't testified that I made any deposits. 

Mr. Doyle. I am just assuming you did. 

Dr. Bleier. I don't think you can assume I did. I did not so testify. 

Mr. Doyle. ^Vlio made the deposits ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that on the grounds of self-incrimi- 
nation. 

Mr. Jackson. Will the gentleman yield ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. The record shows that the account is in the name 
of the Maryland Committee for Peace, Ruth Bleier, M. D., 1033 
North Broadway, Baltimore 5, Md. It is quite obvious that she made 
the deposits and withdrawal of those funds. 

Mr. Doyle. Are there any checks or accounts returned against 
this account ? 

Mr. Jackson. A number of checks. 

Mr. Doyle. May I be privileged to see it just a moment please? 

Doctor, I don't want to press the matter unduly, but I know you 
know your own handwriting even though as you said you are not a 
handwriting expert. We recognize that, of course, but you are an 
expert on your own handwriting. Will you please look at that check 
there and read to me who it is payable to, please ? 

Dr. Bleier. It states here, '"Pay to the order of Romm Press, Inc." 

Mr. Doyle. How much money? 

Dr. Bleier. $100. 

Mr. Doyle. What is the date of it ? 

Dr. Bleier. August 14, 1950. 

Mr. Doyle. It is on a check of what bank? 

Dr. Bleier. The Fidelity Trust Co. 

Mr. Doyle. Where? 

Dr. Bleier. It doesn't — oh, yes; Baltimore. 



924 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Boyle. What is the signature to that check ? What does it say I 

Dr. Bleier. It says, "Maryland Committee for Peace, Ruth Bleier, 
M. D." 

Mr. Doyle. And do you know Ruth Bleier, M. D.? Are you ac- 
quainted with her? Is that you? 

Dr. Bleier. That is my name ; that is right. 

Mr. Doyle. And is that your signature ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of 1 
possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Kearney. Will the gentleman yield for one question ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Kearney. Is anyone else authorized to sign your name, Ruth 
Bleier, M. D., Maryland Conmiittee for Peace besides yourself on the 
withdrawal of funds from that bank? 

Dr. Bleier (after conferring with lier counsel). I refuse to answer 
the question on the previously stated grounds. 

Mr. DoYLE. Doctor, may I just ask you this question ? Counsel, will 
you please hand these to the doctor? She says she is not an expert 
on handwriting. Doctor, I hand you six checks on the same bank 
which you have testified. Fidelity Trust Co., in various amounts. Will 
you look at those six checks so far as the signature on each of them is 
concerned? Are any of those signatures not yours? If so, will you 
identify which one is not? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously stated 
grounds. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you know whose signatures are on each of those 
checks ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer the question for the same reason. 

Mr. Wood. Counsel, do you have a further question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wood. Did you want to ask her about this, Mr. Doyle, or will 
you yield to counsel? 

Mr. Doyle. I note here, Doctor, that I asked a few moments ago 
about deposit slips. I. understood there were not any but I find here 
now four and I ask my counsel here to hand these to you and I will 
ask you if it is not a fact that the pen-and-ink portion of each of those 
deposit slips, indicating the amount of money deposited and the name 
of the committee, is all in your handwriting ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question because the answer 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Would you tell me in what way it would incriminate 
you to identify your own signature ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Doyle. I think that is all. 

Mr. Wood. Counsel, I will leave it to you for further questioning. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think, Mr. Chairman, at this point I should 
introduce in evidence and make a part of the record the check stub 
bearing date June 26, 1941, and I ask that it be marked "Bleier Exliibit 
No. 1." 

Mr. Wood. I will admit it on the condition that you will have the 
document photostated so you may return the original to Dr. Bleier 
because I think they are entitled to the return of these records. 

(Photostat of the document above referred to, marked "Bleier 
Exhibit No. 1," is filed herewith.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTEMORE DEFENSE AREA 925 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, may I also suggest that the witness 
furnish counsel and committee with the bank statement from the date 
of the last canceled checks that we have up to the present time ? 

Mr. Wood. I understood her to say there are other bank statements 
not in her possession but still in the possession of the bank and they 
would be furnished. Is that what 1 understood you to say? 

Dr. Bleier. Yes. 

Mr. Wood. Let that be done as promptly as you can obtain it. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Was the organization of Maryland Committee for 
Peace tax-exempt? 

Dr. Bleier. I really can't say. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a charitable, religious, or educational institu- 
tion? 

Mr. Velde. That is income tax ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, income tax. 

Dr. Bleier. I would presume so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you pay any income tax on the income of the 
organization ? 

Dr. Bleier. Did I? 

Mr. Tavenner. Or did anyone connected with the organization ? 

Dr. Bleier. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Walter. It is a first-class corporation. 

Mr. Wood. "Not to my knowledge," did you say? I did not hear 
you. 

Dr. Bleier. That is right ; not t(T my knowledge. 

Mr. Wood. Does this organization hold a certificate from the Treas- 
ury Department of the United States ? 

Dr. Bleier. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Wood. Does this organization, the Maryland Committee for 
Peace hold a certificate from the Treasury Department of the United 
States authorizing any contributions made to it to be taken off the 
income-tax return and credited for it as being an educational organ- 
ization ? 

Dr. Bleier. I am sorry but I have no knowledge in this realm of 
questioning. 

Mr. Wood. Do you know? 

Dr. Bleier. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your husband's name? 

Dr. Bleier. Leon Eisenberg. 

Mr. Tavenner. Leon Eisenberg? That is all. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions? Mr. Doyle? Mr. Frazier? 

Mr. Frazier. Were you the chairman for the Maryland Committee 
for Peace ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Frazier. Dr. Bleier, would you have the committee believe that 
you were the only member of the Maryland Committee for Peace ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Frazier. Where were you born ? 

Dr. Bleier. Pittsburgh, Pa. That has already been made a part of 
the record. 

Mr. Frazier. And you lived there until you went to the University 
atPhildelphia? 

86629— 51— pt. 2 4 



926 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Dr. Bleier. Well, no. I was born there. I lived in New Ken- 
sington, Pa. 

Mr, Frazier. Where? 

Dr. Bleier. New Kensington, Pa. 

Mr. Frazier. I am just a little bit interested in your background. 
You seem to be a very intelligent person and you hold a degree in 
medicine. Now, what does your father do ? 

Dr. Bleier. He is a businessman. 

Mr. Frazier. Where is he located ? 

Dr. Bleier. Really, I have to object to this. I am the one who is 
appearing here as a witness and I don't see it is within the sphere of 
the inquiry here to bring any of my family into this hearing. 

Mr. Frazier. I merely ask the question in order to get a little of 
your background because it is a little difficult for us members of this 
committee, dealing with an intelligent person as you seem to be, to 
understand the attitude that you take in declining to answer any of 
the questions that have been propounded to you. You don't have to 
divulge the location of your father or what you have done before if 
you don't want to, if you think it will tend to incriminate you. 

Dr. Bleier. I did not object to it on those grounds. 

Mr. Frazier. You say you decline on those grounds ? 

Dr. Bleier. I did not; no. I did not decline on those grounds. 

Mr. Frazier. Wliat objection do you have? 

Dr. Bleier. It was just an objection on the moral principle it seems 
to me really, if I am the person who has been asked to appear here, I 
don't see it is necessary to go into such details to bring other persons 
before you in such a fashion. 

Mr. Frazier. Now, before you went to college where did you attend 
school ? 

Dr. Bleier. Before I went to college? 

Mr. Frazier. Yes. 

Dr. Bleier. In New Kensington, Pa. 

Mr. Frazier. In the public schools ? 

Dr. Bleier. That is right. 

Mr. Frazier. Or private schools? 

Dr. Bleier. Public schools. 

Mr. Frazier. Would you mind telling me again what universities 
you attended? 

Dr. Bleier. After high school I went to Goucher College in Balti- 
more, and then I went to the Women's Medical College in Philadel- 
phia. I spent two different summers in universities, the University 
of Pittsburgh and Penn State, during the course of my college 
training. 

Mr. Frazier. How long did it take you to get your medical degree ? 

Dr. Bleier. The usual 4-year medical course. 

Mr. Frazier. Four years ? 

Dr. Bleier. That is right. 

Mr. Frazier. And then you were assigned to some hospital over at 
Baltimore? 

Dr. Bleier. That is right. 

Mr. Frazier. Sinai, is that it? 

Dr. Bleier. Sinai. 

Mr. Frazier. And you are still there as an intern? 

Dr. Bleier. No, I am not. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 927 

Mr. Frazier. Where are you located now ? 

Dr. Bleier. I am not located any place now. 

Mr. Frazier. You are not engaged in medical practice ? 

Dr. Bleier. Not at the moment since I just completed my hospital 
training. 

Mr. Frazier. But you still reside in Baltimore ? 

Dr. Bleier. That is right. 

Mr. Frazier. Now, why do you object to giving the committee the 
background and the reasons and the ideas and principles of the Mary- 
land Committee for Peace, and the objects of this organization? 

Dr. Bleier. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
of possible self-incrimination, but I think that it is public knowledge 
at this time that there has been a tremendous atmosphere of great 
fear and suspicion, which has been built up in this country, surpris- 
ingly enough, around the word "peace," and also dealing with people 
engaged in peace activities despite the fact that the American people 
have registered time after time over the course of the past year that 
they are very tired of war and want nothing more strongly than to 
have world peace, and I think again that we have a very striking con- 
trast just in the situation that is going on today, really a very bitter 
contrast. On the one hand we have the hc?]pes of mankind on the war 
being settled by the truce talks in Kaesong, Korea, that were begun 
today, and on the other hand we have what this committee has befote 
it, that is, calling on inquisition and subjection to the same sort of 
suspicions and really accuses people who have devoted their time to- 
ward peace and toward bringing this very situation about that we 
have today. That is a situation which can be productive of world 
peace and giving the people an opportunity to build the kind of world 
that they want. 

Mr. Frazier. Do you think that the Members of Congress are in- 
terested in world peace just as much as you are and your associates? 

Dr. Bleier. Well, I think there has been some evidence that some 
have been. Senator Johnson introduced a resolution which called for 
an immedite end to the war in Korea. But I found there were very 
few Senators who spoke out in favor of that, and as I recall very few 
or no Representatives who introduced in the House a similar resolu- 
tion to bring an end to the war in Korea. I am only able to judge by 
such overt actions. 

Mr. Frazier. You don't think that the information you have would 
be of any benefit to this committee in furthering any activities that 
might be disclosed here? 

Dr. Bleier. Yes, I do. I mean there is quite a bit of information. 

Mr. Frazier. Why wouldn't you give the membership of it? 

Dr. Bleier. Well, I think the kind of information that would 
really help you that I am referring to is to give you some idea of the 
tremendous upsurge that exists among the American people and the 
people of Baltimore who have expressed by hundreds and thousands 
the demands that our legislators do all that is possible to bring about 
a negotiated settlement in Korea. Just 1 year ago 50,000 people in 
Baltimore signed a peace ballot that expressed their conviction that 
the nations of different social and economic systems such as exempli- 
fied by the United States and the Soviet Union can coexist. 

Mr. Kearney. Does the gentleman yield? Is that the so-called 
Stockholm Peace Petition you are speaking about ? 



928 CORIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Dr. Bleier. No ; it is not. 

Mr. Kearney. What peace petition are you speaking about ? 

Dr. Bleier. One year ago the paper carried a peace ballot, not a 
peace petition. 

Mr. Kearney. Who put the peace ballot out ? 

Dr. Bleier. Again referring to the newspaper accounts, this was a 
peace ballot that was put out by the Maryland Committee for Peace. 

Mr. Kearney. Oh, the Maryland Committee for Peace. 

Mr. Frazier. That is all. 

Mr. Doyle. Wlio circulated that ballot? Did the Maryland Com- 
mittee for Peace finance the preparation of the ballot? I think you 
have stated that. 

Dr. Bleier. I am telling you what happened in the newspapers. 
This made quite a bit of a stir in the Sun papers. 

Mr. Doyle. Were you and the other members of the committee spon- 
sors of the ballot ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of pos- 
sible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Doyle. Is that what will incriminate you, the peace ballot ? 

Dr. Bleier. I have not testified as to any of the activities of the 
other people on the Maryland Committee for Peace. 

Mr. Doyle. Why is it when we get up to the point of us asking any- 
thing about the Communist Party or communism that you claim your 
privileges ? Is there anything subversive or anything criminal about 
it that might incriminate you if you back it in any way, or do I 
misjudge? 

Dr. Bleier. I am afraid there has been quite a few ideas here just 
given by you. I am not sure what it is you pose as a question to me. 

Mr. D0YI.E. It is perfectly clear. I am asking you what there is in 
your mind that might incriminate you if you frankly answer our ques- 
tions that you were or were not in any way connected with the Com- 
munist Party. What is there about the Communist Party that might 
incriminate you if you said you were in any way identified with it 5 

Mr. Bleier. This is something I just don't feel in my power to 
discuss. 

Mr. Doyle. I think you understand it all right. No other 
questions. 

Mr. Velde. Dr. Bleier, do you know how much income has come 
into the Maryland Committee for Peace since it has been organized ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of pos- 
sible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Velde. You mentioned a while ago that the Maryland Com- 
mittee for Peace had no members. I wonder what the term "member" 
or "membership" means to you ? 

Dr. Bleier. Is this a Webster definition you would like? 

Mr. Velde. No; I just want to know your definition of what you 
think it is. Possibly you call membership something else than we do. 
Are there committeemen to this organization or committee members ? 

Dr. Bleier. Well, my conception of a member is someone who signs 
a membership card and pays dues. I presume that would be a defi- 
nition. 

Mr. Velde. And under that connotation that the Maryland Com- 
mittee for Peace has no membership in your connotation of the term 
"membership" ; is that correct ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 929 

Dr. Bleier (after conferring with her counsel). That is right. 

Mr. Velde. What is the Maryland Committee for Peace? Will 
you describe it? What term do you use to designate it? 

Dr. Bleier. I can only answer that the name would speak for 
itself. 

Mr. Velde. It is a committee? 

Dr. Bleier. I would presume so if it is called a committee. 

Mr. Velde. Well, is it or is it not in your opinion a committee? 
Understand, I am not trying to catch you or anything. I just want 
to get your understanding of it. 

Dr. Bleler. Yes; I understand what you are talking about. I 
cannot answer that. 
fk Mr. Velde. You cannot answer it? 

Dr. Bleier. I cannot. Again I can only say anything that calls 
itself a committee would be a committee. 

Mr. Velde. It would have committee members then, would it not, 
or committeemen? 

fr Dr. Bleier. I don't know that that follows. 

* Mr. Velde. Can you describe the organization any further, any 
better than you have ? 

Dr. Bleier. No ; I cannot answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Velde. The organization still is in existence at the present 
time? 

Dr. Bleier. To my knowledge it is. 

Mr. Wood. Are there any other questions? 

Mr. Kearney. Yes. 

Doctor, there has been some talk here about the signatures on these 
various canceled checks. Would you mind giving me a sample of 
your signature? 

(After conferring with her counsel the witness signed her name 
to a blank piece of stationery.) 

Mr. Kearney. Well, now. Doctor, would you be willing to compare 
the signature on the check I hand you dated February 26, 1951, signed 
"Md. Committee for Peace, Euth Bleier, M. D.," and tell this com- 
mittee whether or not those two signatures, the one you just gave 
me and the one on the check, are not your own ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of 
possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce the signed 
signature in evidence and ask it be marked "Bleier Exhibit No. 2." 

Mr. Walter. Being the writing on which the witness placed her 
own name. 

Mr. Ta\ti:nner. Yes, sir. 

(The document above referred to, marked "Bleier Exhibit No. 2," 
is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Kearney. Doctor, were you still in Sinai Hospital on June 26, 
27, or 28? 

Dr. Bleier. Was I still in it ? 

Mr. Kearney. As an intern or whatever your position was there? 

Dr. Bleier. My year of training was completed July 1. 

Mr. Kearney. Will you answer the question as to whether or not 
you were still a member of the staff as an intern or whatever official 
position you held on June 26, 27, and 28 ? 

Dr. Bleier. I was officially a member of the staff. 



930 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Kearney. Were you present in the hospital attending your 
duties during those 3 days ? 

Dr. Bleier. What were those days ? 

Mr. Kearney. June 26, 27, and 28, and I will say the 29th. 

Dr. Bleier (after conferring with her counsel). I was not in the 
hospital on those days. 

Mr. Kearney. Would you mind telling the committee where you 
were? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. Were you at this peace conference in Chicago ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer on the grounds that the answer may 
tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Kj:arney. Were you in Chicago during those latter days of 
June? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of 
possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Kearney. Have you read anything about this peace confer- 
ence which was held in Chicago during the latter days of June? 

Dr. Bleier. I recall reading — I think I recall reading a newspaper. 

Mr. Kearney. Isn't that the conference where Paul Kobeson and 
Gale Sondergaard were supposed to be two of the speakers ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Kearney. And Dr. Morrison, of Cornell? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. Do you know whether they were or not? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Ej;arney. Doctor, in answer to some of the questions put to 
you by members of the committee and also by counsel I might have 
misunderstood you but I believe I understood you to say that thou- 
sands and thousands and thousands of Americans were looking for- 
ward to peace? 

Dr. Bleier. That is right. 

Mr. Kearney. I agree with that. Now, do you think those Ameri- 
cans are looking forward to the kind of peace that Russia desires or 
the kind of peace that America desires ? 

Ur. Bleier. Peace 

Mr, Kearney. Never mind going into any speech or lengthy dis- 
sertation. You can answer my question. 

Dr. Bleier. I just want to make the point peace is peace. It is a 
lack of warfare. 

Mr. Kearney. That I realize and I think every member of this 
committee realizes the same thing but would you merely answer the 
question ? 

Dr. Bleier. Could you tell me what are the two types of peace that 
you are distinguishing? Perhaps then I can. 

Mr, Kearney. Yes ; I could. I would be very glad to do so. Would 
you please answer the question ? 

Dr, Bleier. I am sorry, I cannot answer the question because I 
really don't understand it because as I said before peace is the absence 
of war, 

Mr. Kearney. All right, what kind of peace do you believe in, the 
American kind or the Russian kind? 

Dr. Bleier, I didn't know there were all kinds of peace. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 931 

Mr. Kearney. Evidently you aren't well up on it. 
Dr. Bleier. Well, if you are speaking about these- 



Mr. Kearney. You are speaking about these thousands and thou- 
sands of Americans who desire peace and with that I thoroughly agree 
with you, and yet you speak about some petition which was signed 
over in Baltimore about a year ago and I ask you if that was -the 
so-called Stockholm peace petition and I wish you would answer that 
question again. Was it or wasn't it? 
Dr. Bleier. I answered that it was not. 
Mr. Kearney. That it was not? 
Dr. Bleier. That is right. 

Mr. Kearney. Did your organization have any petitions of the 
so-called Stockholm peace petition to put throughout the city of Bal- 
timore for signatures ? 

Dr. Bleier. What organization is this that you are referring to? 
Mr. Kearney. The so-called Stockholm peace petition and the Mary- 
land Committee for Peace. 

Dr. Bleier. And what was your question ? 

Mr. Kearney. Did you or your organization, the Maryland Com- 
mittee for Peace, have any of the so-called Stockholm peace petitions 
during their campaign? Did you have any of those to secure the 
signatures of people from Baltimore on those petitions 2 

Dr. Bleier (after conferring with her counsel) . To my knowledge 
the Maryland Committee for Peace did not circulate the Stockholm 
peace petition. The ballot I was referring to was a ballot, which speci- 
tied two different points, that is, peaceful coexistence between two 

economic and social systems and the 

Mr. Kearney. Would you mind giving us the source of those peace 
petitions ? 

Dr. Bleier. Which peace petitions? 
j\Ir. Kearney. The ones you are just speaking about. 
Dr. Bleier. I think this is made clear by my previous testimony. 
Mr. Kearney. It is not clear to me and I wish you would answer 
the question. 

Dr. Bleier. This was a ballot that was sponsored as I understand 
it by the Maryland Committee for Peace. 

Mr. Kearney. Weren't you a member of the Maryland Committee 
for Peace at that time ? 

Dr. Bleier. I previously refused and I still refuse to answer that 
question on the grounds of possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Kearney. Has your Maryland Committee for Peace sponsored 
any other peace petitions other than those you have just mentioned? 

Dr. Bleier. Again I haven't identified myself as being the 'pos- 
sessor of the Maryland Committee for Peace. 

Mr. Kearney. As an individual have you sponsored any peace peti- 
tions or signed any peace petitions? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. Did you sign the so-called Stockholm peace peti- 
tion? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. Now, can you tell the committee of your own knowl- 
edge : Do you know of any organization in this country that has put 
out these so-called peace petitions that were not Communist-inspired ? 



932 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Dr. Bleier. I would like to have you repeat that question, please, .j 

Mr. Kearney. Will the stenographer read the question please? 

(The question was read by the reporter.) j 

Dr. Bleir. In the first place I have no knowledge of all of the t 
peace petitions that were put out in this country. | 

Mr. Kearney. I did not ask you that. I asked you of your own r 
knowledge. \ 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously stated »i 
grounds, but I would like 

Mr. Kearney. I thought you would, but it has taken you an awful \ 
long time to get to that point. 

Dr. Bleier. I would like to add a few things to my previous re- i 
marks. I 

Mr. Kearney. As I said to a previous witness, I am not on the ) 
witness stand. | 

Dr. Bleier. I was not going to ask you a question. 1 

Mr. Kearney. Has your organization ever had a list of its member- \ 
ship ? i 

Dr. Bleier. What organization is this you are referring to ? 1 

Mr. Kearney. Maryland Committee for Peace, 

Dr. Bleier. And your question was what ? 

Mr. Kearney. Have they ever had a list of its members ? 

Dr. Bleier. It is really beyond — unless you think I am stupid, I 
think we have been through these questions time after time again. 

Mr. Kearney. I don't want to get into that. Doctor, but I would 
like to answer that question. I tiiink you are far from stupid. I 
think you are smart. I think you are too smart to answer the questions 
honestly and sincerely that are put to you by the committee. 

Mr. Wood. The question that was asked you, as I understand it, is 
whether or not the Maryland Committee for Peace has ever had its 
membership listed. Has there ever been in existence a list of the 
people who formulated the Maryland Committee for Peace ? Do you 
know that of your own knowledge ? 

Dr. Bleier. My testimony that was given 

Mr. Wood. Just answer the question and we can get along better. 

Dr. Bleier. When I handed in the records, I stated there has never 
been a list of the members of the Maryland Committee for Peace. 

Mr. Wood. There never has been ? 

Dr. Bleier. That is right. 

Mr. Kearney. Are you a member of the Maryland Committee for 
Peace ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that on previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. Will you explain not only to me but to the members 
of the committee how you came in possession of these records of the 
Maryland Committee for Peace ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on previously stated 
grounds. In compliance with my subpena, I brought all the records 
of the Maryland Committee for Peace. 

Mr. Kearney. As the only one in charge of those records? Would 
any individual outside of a inember of the Maryland Committee for 
Peace have charge of those records ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Kearney. That is all. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 933 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Doctor, I hand you herewitli a photostatic copy of 
a letterhead of the Maryland Comniitte for Peace and ask your special 
attention to a list of names which appear on the right-hand side. Do 
you see the list of names? 

Dr. Bleier. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. May I have the letter back, please? 

Over the signature of Kutli Bleier, M. D., chairman of the Mary- 
land Committee for Peace, and in the body of the letter this is stated 
in part: 

We are circulating the open letter tbroughout the city and expect that thou- 
sands of signatures will result in answers from both governments. In doing 
this work we are trying to build a bridge between the two governments whose 
continued coexistence is necessary if peace is to be maintained. We hope you 
will circulate the enclosed letters and return them to us. 

I am going to ask you what two governments are involved there 
but rather ask you whether or not you feel, in line with your state- 
ment, prepared statement, which says in part: 

This hopeful course of events has been in no small degree influenced by the 
determination for peace of the American people, a determination based on the 
conviction that peacefixl coexistence between differing economic and social sys- 
tems is not only desirable but possible and that differences between nations can 
and must be settled around the conference table, not on the battlefield. 

Now, that is a portion of the statement which I understand you re- 
leased today to the press. Do you believe very sincerely that there are 
no differences between the Soviet Union and the United States that 
cannot be settled around the conference table by peaceful means ? Do 
you so believe? 

Dr. Bleier. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. That is correct. You are sincerely convinced that 
the American system of government on the one hand and the Com- 
munist system of government on the other have no differences that 
cannot be resolved at the conference table. 

Dr. Bleier. Well, this obviously refers to any of the differences 
which might generate Avar between them. I am not saying by that 
if they sit down together that one system is going to convert from a 
capitalist to a socialist system or vice versa. 

Mr. Jackson. I understand that, but your contention is there can 
be settlement. 

Dr. Bleier. That is right. I don't think any difference can be so 
great as to justify the horror that is taking place in Korea. 

Mr. Jackson. I call j'our attention to a quote from Stalin's book 
Problems of Leninism, in which he states : 

It is inconceivable that the Soviet Republic should continue to exist side by 
side with capitalist, imperialist states. Ultimately one or the other must 
conquer. 

Are you in agreement with that statement? 

Dr. Bleier. I think I made my position absolutely clear, as it is 
possible. 

Mr. Jackson. No; not as to the question I have asked. I asked 
you whether or not you agree with the statement made by Premier 
Stalin, which I must confess is in direct variance to the statement 
contained in your statement issued today. The two are so far apart 



934 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

that I should like to — you have affirmed your belief in your own 
statement ? 

Dr. Bi.EiER. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. Now, do you believe in the statement made by Mr. 
Stalin? 

Dr. Bleier. I can but stand on my own statement. 

Mr. Jackson. In other words, standing on your own statement must 
be preceded by a repudiation of the other; is that correct? 

Dr. Bleier. I would presume so. 

Mr. Jackson. It would seem to follow that, if you believe that every- 
thing could be settled around the conference table, you cannot sub- 
■scribe that the two systems, economic and social, cannot exist in the 
same world, with reference to Mr. Stalin's words? 

With further reference to the checks — 

Dr. Bleier. May I make another remark? I would presume what 
jou are implying here, despite what I think, the whole set-up of events 
in the world are such that it would be impossible for these two coun- 
tries to coexist. Is that what you had in mind? 

Mr. Jackson. Simply, my question is whether you believed your 
own statement or whether you believed the statement of Mr. Stalin. 

Dr. Bleier. The one thing that I woud like to refer to and that is 
something that I read 

Mr. Jackson. No; I am simply asking you a question. It is a 
<luestion which I think your points of view are so radically different 
that there seems to be no argument that can bridge the gap. Do you 
stand on your statement or do you believe that Mr. Stalin is right? 

Dr. Bleier. The thing that I am trying to point out is that I 
believe in the coexistence of the two systems ; and I want to point out, 
because I am afraid of the implication left by your words, that there 
is ground for agreement between the two countries and point to the 
fact that Mr. Stalin in all of his speeches since, I believe, 1926 before 
the governing body in the Soviet Union has affirmed the peaceful 
•coexistence between the capitalist and the Socialist systems. 

Mr. Jackson. That may be very true. Doctor, but it still does not 
bridge the gap as between the two positions which were taken by you 
and by Mr. Stalin, whether these two systems can coexist in the 
world or they cannot. 

Dr. Blehcr. Well, they certainly can. 

Mr. Jackson. They can? 

Dr. Bleier. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Then I understand, by that, that Mr. Stalin's ex- 
pression of inconceivability that they could is not in line with your 
"thinking ? 

Mr. Tavenner. She has not answered the question. There is no 
answer for the record. 

Dr. Bleier. That is my interpretation. 

Mr. Jackson. My understanding is you are in agreement with that? 

Dr. Bleier. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. What is your answer? 

Dr. Bleier. My answer is my belief in the coexistence in peace of the 
Soviet Union and the United States. 

Mr. Velde. Will the gentleman yield? Tlien I take it yon disagree 
with Stalin's statement? 



COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 935 

Dr. Bleier. We are getting far away from the question. You will 
liave to remembei" — — 

Mr. Velde. Answer my question. Do you agree or disagree witli 
■Stalin's statement? 

Dr. Bleier. Obviously, if it disagrees with my statement, I would. 
It is a statement that does disagree. Would you read it again? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Stalin's statement? 

Dr. Bleier. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson, (reading) : 

It is inconceivable that the Soviet Union should continue to exist for a long 
period side by side with imperialist states. Ultimately one or the other must 
<;onquer. 

Your statement is different. 

Dr. Bleier. That would have to be my conclusion; that it is a dif- 
fering statement. 

Mr. Velde. Do you disagree with it or agree? 

Dr. Bleier. I must confess I am no real student of philosophy. I 
don't know all of the implications there. If anyone would take the 
choice that the two systems cannot coexist, 1 must disagree with that 
choice, because I do believe that they can coexist and I am really not 
ii^ any — I just don't have the information to analyze a statement like 
that. ' 

Mr. Velde. At this point you don't disagree with anything Mr. 
Stalin has said? 

Mr. Jackson. I think she has. 

Mr. Velde. Do you go on record as disagreeing with this statement ? 

Dr. Bleier. I think that this is a very unreasonable line of ques- 
tioning. If the meaning of this is it is impossible, then I disagree 
with it. As I say, I am not in the position to enter into a philosophical 
•discussion with anybody of what this thing is. I am really not a 
student of philosophy. 

Mr. Jackson. This is not a question of philosophy. This is a posi- 
tion where you are exactly opposed from that of someone else and it 
is a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. My understanding of your 
answer is that you disagree with Mr. Stalin's position. 

Now, on the letterhead of the Maryland Committee for Peace there 
are listed three honorary chairmen, one chairman, two vice chairmen, 
one treasurer, one secretary, and, I should say, 40 sponsors. Would 
that, in your mind, constitute what is necessary to the creation of a 
committee ? 

Dr. Bleier. I have not really formed opinions of what a committee 
is. I think if a group of people would associate themselves into what 
they would choose to term "a committee," why I would respect their 
right to call themselves a committee. 

Mr. Jackson. Did these individuals — I am not going to name 
them — so constitute themselves as to form the Maryland Committee 
for Peace ? 

Dr. Bleier, I refuse to answer that question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you know Gunther Wertheimer ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of 
possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Jackson. A number of the checks drawn on the Fidelity Trust 
Co. and signed "Maryland Committee for Peace, Kuth Bleier, M. D." 



936 COMMUNIST Activities est Baltimore defense area 

are made out to Mr. Gunther Wertheimer. I know notliinjj- about Mr. 
Wertheimer's work. The record so states. Will you tell tlie com- 
mittee in what capacity Mr. Wertheimer functioned in connection with 
the Maryland Committee for Peace, if he did so function ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer on the previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Jackson. Under date of February 26, 1951, check No. 502 on 
the Fidelity Trust Co. in the amount of $15 is made out to the Amer- 
ican Peace Crusade and signed by Ruth Bleier, Maryland Committee 
for Peace. Do you have any knowledge of this check ? 

Dr. Bleier. I refuse to answer on the previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Jackson. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter, do you have some questions ? 

Mr. Walter. No questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Insofar as the testimony given here is so indirectly — 
or directly, in one instance — apt to leave the inference in your opinion 
that this committee has by its actions deterred efforts for lasting ', 
peace in this world, I must for the committee as well as for myself 
repudiate any inference that you might leave in the minds of those 
present or the press or yourself. In the early days of this Republic, 
when the Colonies were laboring under collusion, there was a great 
majority that cried out against peace by chains and slavery, and 
there has been war by freemen in the world since that time. 

Speaking for myself — and, I think, for every member of this com- 
mittee^ — there is no person in this world who desires peace any more 
than I do; but the peace that I desire is not the kind of peace that 
gets you freedom only from armed conflict but rather a peace of mind 
and peace of conscience. A peace that gives some assurance of the 
maintenance of the dignity of the individual. That is the kind of 
peace that the freedom-loving people of America want today and 
not the kind of peace that seems to be desired by you and your 
associates. 

I simply want to make my position clear. 

Now, Mr. Counsel, you have some questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Bleier, you have mentioned a peace ballot. 
Did the Maryland Committee for Peace circulate it? And you men- 
tioned two questions. One of those questions was this : "Are you in 
favor of outlawing the hydrogen bomb and other atomic and bacteri- 
ological weapons of war?" 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, did the knowledge which you or the Mary- 
land Committee for Peace possessed on bacteriological warfare come 
in any manner or to any extent from your husband, Dr. Leon Eisen- 
berg? 

Dr. Bleier. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry ; I could not hear you. 

Dr. Bleier. No; not to my knowledge it didn't. I have done my 
own amount of reading. As far as the committee goes, I can't speak 
for it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he at that time, as Capt, Leon Eisenberg, 
working on bacteriological research at installations at the Walter 
Reed Hospital ? 

Dr. Bleier. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he ever at any time work in that capacity ? 

Dr. Bleier. Not to my knowledge. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 937 

IVrr. Tavenner. Was he Avorking at Walter Reed Hospital? 

Dr. Bleip:r. Are you referring to a specific time ? 

Mr. Tavenner. At any time. 

Dr. Bleier. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did he work there ? 

Dr. Bleier. I will answer that question, ]\Ir. Tavenner, but again 
I must object. I am the person who is on the witness stand, and 1 
can't see inquiring into the livelihood or the actions of other people 
is within the realm of this inquiry. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question, please? 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson returned to hearing room.) 

Dr. Bleier. I think it was about 1948 and 1949. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. In what capacity was he working there ? 

Dr. Bleier. As an instructor. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what ? 

Dr. Bleier. I believe it was neurophysiology. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did his assignment have anything to do with bac- 
teriological warfare? 

Dr. Bleier. Not to my knowledge ; no. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Wood. Do you desire time, to examine these records Avith the 
possibilit}^ of recalling the witness, or can she be excused now? 

Mr. Tavenner. I think she should be released subject to recall, Mr. i 

Chairman; in which case we would give several days' notice. j 

]\Ir. AVooD. Except for the records this witness has produced which I 

you may desire to retain, the records will be returned.  

This committee is adjourned ; and until 10 o'clock tomorrow morn- ; 

ing the committee is recessed. 

(Whereupon, at 4: 30 p. m. the hearing was adjourned to reconvene i 

at 10 a. m. Wednesday, July 11, 1951.) ' 



HEARINGS RELATING TO COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN 
THE DEFENSE AREA OF BALTIMORE— PART 2 

(Maryland Committee for Peace aud the Baltimore 
County Committee for Peace) 



THURSDAY, JULY 12, 1951 

United States House or Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee on 

Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. C. 
public hearing 

afternoon session 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to adjournment, at 2:55 p. m., in room 226, Old House 
Office Building, Hon. John S. Wood (chairman) presiding.^ 

Commitee members present: Representatives John S. Wood (chair- 
man), Francis E. Walter, James B. Frazier, Jr., and Harold H. 
Velde. 

Stair members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Thomas W. 
Beale, Sr., assistant counsel ; Donald T. Appell, investigator ; Raphael 
I. Nixon, director of research; John W. Carrington, clerk: and A. 
S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Wood. Let the committee be in order. 

Let the record show for the purposes of this proceeding this after- 
noon that I have set up a subcommittee composed of Messrs. Walter, 
Velde, and Frazier. 

You may proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Shub. 

]Mr. Wood. Raise your right hand. Do you solmenly swear the 
evidence you give this subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Shub. I do. 

Mr. Buciiman. I want the record to show, sir, that we are pro- 
ceeding under protest because of the absence of a quorum. 

Mr. Wood. The protest is noted. 

Let the record shoAV, however, that the entire subcommittee is 
present. 



' Testimony of the preceding witness heard by the Committee on Un-American Activities 
on this day. Harold Lapidas Konnd, is printed in another volume under same title, pt. 3. 

939 



940 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

TESTIMONY OF LOUIS JULIUS SHUB, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, HAROLD BUCHMAN 

Mr. Tai'enner. Will you state your full name '^ 

Mr. Shub. Louis Julius Shub. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel 'i 

Mr. Shub. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. BucHMAN. Harold Buchman, 213 Tower Building, Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. W^hen and where were you born, Mr. Shub ? 

Mr. Shub. I was born in Baltimore in 1912. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the date ? 

Mr. Shub. February 19, 1912. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state for the committee, briefly, your 
educational background ? 

Mr. Shub. Yes, I will. I was educated in the Baltimore public 
schools. I studied at the Peabody Conservatory, music school, had 
a scholarship there; studied at the Julliard Institute, also with a 
scholarship, and at the Curtis Institute, scholarship student there. 
I graduated there in 1940. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you now employed ? 

Mr. Shub. I am teaching music. I am teaching piano, counter- 
point, music literature, and score reading. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where? 

Mr. Shub. I would rather not answer that question, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been employed other than as a teacher 
of music ? 

jNIr. Shub. Aside from teaching music, I have been a concert pianist. 
I was in the Armed Forces; went in as a private in 1942, served in 
north Africa and Italy in the Naples campaign and in the Rome-Arno 
campaign. I received a direct comuiission as second lieutenant in 
Italy. I was separated from the service in 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now in the Reserve Corps? 

Mr. Shub. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. With what rank? 

Mr. Shub. Second lieutenant. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the Active Reserve ? 

Mr. Shub. No, it is not in the Active Reserve, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to your enlistment in the Army, how were 
you employed? 

Mr. Shub. I was employed as a music teacher and, also, I gave con- 
certs. 

Mr. Velde. Where were you employed as a music teacher? 

Mr. Shub. I would rather not answer that question. I rather resent 
that question for a voi-y definite reason. 

Mr. Velde. What is your reason ? 

Mr. Shub. Where was I employed ; was that your question ? I mis- 
understood. 

I taught piano privately in my own studio at that time. 

Mr. Velde. With reference to your employment at the present time, 
where are you employed as a music teacher? 

Mr. Shub. I would rather not answer that question for a very 
definite reason. If you care to have the reason, gentlemen, I can give 
it to you. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 941 

Mr. Velde. Well, I as one member of the committee would like to 
have your reason. 

Mr. Shub. The reason is, the disclosure at present of my place of 
employment would endanger my job. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Walter. Why do you feel your job would be endangered? 

Mr. Shub. Well, in the first place, I would like to say that the place 
where I am employed I don't think has any bearing at all upon the 
proceedings of this investigation. 

Mr. Walter. I don't know whether that is true or whether it isn't. 

Mr. Shutj. It is a school. It is a music school. I teach these various 
subjects that I mentioned, and I hardly believe, gentlemen, that teach- 
ing music comes under the category of subversive activities. 

Mr. Walter. It depends upon who the teacher is, perhaps. 

Mr. Shub. Really? That is very difficult to see how one can 

Mr. Walter. Never mind. It is very apparent to me. Go ahead. 

Mr. Velde. Is this a private school or a public school ? 

Mr. Shub. It is a private school. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Chairman, I think other witnesses have been re- 
quired to answer similar questions, and I see no reason for making any 
exception in this particular case. 

Mr. Wood. I know of no power vested in this committee, or its 
chairman, to require a man to answer any question. The witness is 
under oath. I would like to call the witness' attention to the fact that 
a refusal to answer is his choice, and whatever hazard may be attached 
to his refusal to answer is something that he has to take. 

Mr. Shub. Mr. Chairman, if I am directed to answer this question, 
I shall most certainly answer it. 

Mr. Wood. Let me ask you this : Have you any financial interest at 
the institution at which you teach ? 

Mr. Shub. No, I have not. 

Mr. Wood. I think for the time being, gentlemen, until further de- 
velopments occur, maybe we had better respect the feelings of the wit- 
ness. It may develop that the question where he is teaching is not 
material. 

I am not going to require the witness to answ^er at the moment, un- 
til his testimony is further developed. It may develop to the point 
where it may not be necessary. At least, I hope so, 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Shub, the committee is in possession of informa- 
tion indicating that you, Dr. Ruth Bleier, and Mr. Gunther Werth- 
eimer were jointly interested in the creation of an organization in Bal- 
timore known as the Maryland Committee for Peace. I would like 
for you to tell the committee what you know about the organization of 
that group, and who were participants in it, and all you know regard- 
ing its creation. 

Mr. Shub (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the grounds of possible self-incrimination. 

Mr, Walter. You feel that your connection with a gi-oup whose 
purpose it was to make a contribution toward world peace might in 
anywise implicate you in some criminal prosecution ? 

Mr. Shub. I am sorry, I didn't get the question. 

Mr. Walter. Read the question, Mr. Stenographer, 

(The question was read.) 



942 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA j 

Mr. Shub. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that it' ; 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Shub, did you in September 1949, meet with i 
Dr. Ruth Bleier, Mr. Gunther Wertheimer, and Joan Wertheimer, or 
any of them, for preliminary discussions toward the formation of the i 
Maryland Committee for Peace? [•; 

Mr. Shub (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer ' 
that question on the ground that it may tend to incriminate me. ; 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Dr. Ruth Bleier? ,i 

Mr. Shub (after conferring wdth his counsel). I refuse to answer i 
that question on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tay-enner. Are you acquainted with Mr. Gunther Wertheimer? j 

Mr. Shub. I refuse to answer tliat question on the grounds that it ij 
may tend to incriminate me. ' 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you on any occasion or, to be more specific, on i 
.January 19, 1950, make reservation for a room at the Enoch Pratt \ 
fjibrary in I3altimore, namely, room 0, for use as a meeting place ?  

Mr. Shub (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer 15 
that question on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Shub, according to information in the poses- -i 
sion of the connnittee, you were Progressive Party candidate for j 
governor in the State of Maryland in the gubernatorial election of | 
1950. As a candidate for Governor of the State of Maryland, you 5 
were required under the law as then existing, in order to qualify your 1 
candidacy, to sign an affidavit under the provisions of the Ober Act. j 
Did you sign such an affidavit? ! 

Mr. Shub (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer j 
that question on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me. ] 

Mr. Wood. Let me see if I understand you correctly. You mean to 
leave the inference here that it is a matter that might subject a man to 
prosecution to run for Governor of the State of Maryland? 

Mr. Shub (after conferring with his counsel). 1 refuse to answer 
that question, also, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mr. Sam Fox, who was 
the Progressive candidate for the United States Senate in 1950? 

Mr. Shub (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mr. Milton Self, a candi- 
date for the house of delegates from the fourth legislative district in 
the year 1950 in the State of Maryland ? 

Mr. Shub. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Thelma Gerende, who was 
a candidate for Congress from the Second District of Maryland in 
1950? 

Mr. Shub. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Isn't it a fact, Mr. Shub, that your certificate with 
regard to your candidacy for governor was returned to you because 
of your refusal to sign the affidavit required by the Ober law ? 

Mr. Shub (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse 

Mr. Tavenner. And as a result your name did not appear on the 
ballot? 

Mr. Shub. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it 
may tend to incriminate me. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 943 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you hoay connected or affiliated in any way with 
the Maryland Committee for Peace? 

Mr. Shub. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr, Tavenner. ^Ve have introduced evidence before the committee 
regarding- the payment of transportation in the amount of $1,002 on 
Jime 27 or 26, 11)51, over the Pemisylvania Railroad to Chicago, the 
check being drawn on the funds of the Maryland Committee for Peace. 
Did you receive the benefit of those funds, or any part of them? In 
other words, did you go to Chicago, and w^as your way paid? 

Mr. Shub. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it 
may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now or have you ever been a member of 
the Communist party? 

Mr. BuciiMAN. I think the record should show that there are only 
three members of the committee present at this time. 

Mr. Wood. That is a quorum of the subcommittee. 

Mr. BucHMAN. Let the record show that we proceed under protest. 

Mr. Tavenner. A docket sheet is prepared in which, the very mo- 
ment a person leaves the room, it is recorded, and that is an official 
document and record of this connnittee. 

Mr. Wood. The member is back now. You may proceed. 

Was the last question answered ? Will you read the question to the 
witness ? 

(The question was read.) 

Mr. Shub (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse to answer 
that question on the ground that it may tend to incriminate me. 

JNIr. Tavenner. Well, now, in the light of your answers, M r. Shub, 
I would like to ask you how long you have been connected with the 
school at which you are now employed ? 

Mr. Shub (after conferring with his counsel). Since the fall of 
1946. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did you participate in any way in the organization 
of the school? 

Mr. Shub. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee the name of the 
school at which you are employed ? 

Mr. Shub (after conferring with his counsel). If the committee in- 
sists that I answer this question, as I said before, I will most certainly 
do so ; but it seems pretty clear to me that the only possible reason for 
wanting an answer to this question is for the reasons I gave before, 
to intimidate me, to endanger my position in that school. 

Mr. Wood. It isn't the connnittee that is doing that, sir, if it has that 
effect. 

Mr, Shub. Well, I disagree with that completely. It most cer- 
tainly does. After all, the only one, tlie,only group of members who 
are asking me that question, with the most certain possibility of hav- 
ing it plastered all over the newspapers, is this connnittee. 

Mr, Wood. The replies that you are giving here are your replies and 
not ours. We don't make your record. You make it yourself, 

Mr, Shub, That is true. But the questions are asked of me. 

Mr. Wood. And it is the view of this subconmiittee, the unanimous 
view, and I so hold as the chairman of it, that the question is perti- 
nent to the inquiry we are conducting here, and you are directed to 
answer the question. 




944 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Shub (after conferring with his counsel). Since I am directe 
to answer the question, I shall do so. The name of the school is the 
Baltimore Institute of Musical Arts. However, I would like to say 
at this poin4: that it is very evident to my satisfaction, and I am sure 
to most people's, that what I said before is absolutely true. 

Mr. Wood. Bear in mind, sir, that the committee isn't concerned 
about your opinion of its activities. You are given an opportunity 
here to answer questions or to refuse to answer them, as you see fit. 
You have been directed to answer this question, and you have an- 
swered, and that ends it. This is no forum in which to make a speech. 

Mr. Shub. I think that 

Mr. Wood. I would like to emphasize again, sir, that this committee 
is in no sense responsible for any position that you may find yourself 
in that you feel makes it impossible for you, without incriminating 
yourself, to give us any information as to your previous activities, 
except as a teacher. „ 

Mr. Shub. I will recognize that as the committee's opinion. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions, JSIr. Tavenner '( 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Are you a member of the Maryland Council of the Arts, Sciences, 
and Professions ? 

Mr. Shub. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that the 
answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. In April of 1949 the Maryland Council of the Arts, 
Sciences and Professions, according to information in the possession 
of the committee, held a rally in the Lyric Theater in Baltimore, 
which was a follow-up of the Waldorf conference in New York. Did 
you take part in any way in entertainment at this rally '( 

Mr. Shub. In entertainment ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; in the way of entertainment at that rally. 

Mr. Shub (after conferring with his counsel). Well, that is a novel 
approach, I must say, of entertainment being considered subversive. 
However, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that the 
answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are placing your own value on that. If you 
consider it is not a matter that would tend to incriminate you, or 
subject you to criminal prosecution, it would be your duty to answer 
the question. 

Mr. Shub. Since what you just said now is not a question 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you to answer the question in the light 
of your answer. 

Mr. Shub. There is a little confusion here now. You are asking 
me to answer the original question, and that I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is right 

Mr. Shub. I give the same answer, I refuse to answer that question 
on the grounds of possible self-incrimination; that the answer may 
tend to incriminate me. - 

Mr. Tavenner. I think that it is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wai/ter. You refused to answer the question as to whether or 
not you were a member of the Maryland Committee for Peace on the 
grounds that the answer to that question might tend to incriminate 
you. Is that because the Maryland Committee for Peace is a Com- 
munist organization? 



I 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 945 



Mr. Shub (after conferring witli his counsel). Mr, Walter, I 
i-efuse to answer that question on the grounds that the answer may 
tend to incriminate me. 
Mr. Wood. Mr. Frazier ? 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Velde? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Shub, in case this country was to become involved 
ill a war with Russia, being an American citizen, which I presume 
you are, would you fight on the side of the United States Government ? 

Mr. Shub. AVell, since I was born in Baltimore, that automatically 
make me an American citizen. 

Mr. Velde. There is a possibility of your citizenship being taken 
:iway from you. I presume that hasn't happened. 

Mr. Shub. I servetl in the last war, and there was no hesitation. 
I want to say before I answer your question, how^ever, that these sort 
of questions are the complete opposite of what is taking place right 
now in Korea. There are negotiations for a cease fire 

Mr. Wood. Is this part of your answer ? 

Mr. Shub. Yes, it is, Mr. Wood. 

Mr, Wood. I fail to see how it is pertinent, what is going on in 
Korea. You were simply asked a question by a member of the com- 
mittee here, in the event of a conflict between the Soviet Government 
and the Government of the United States, whether or not you would 
participate on the side of the United States in such a struggle. That 
is a simple question to answer. You can say either "Yes"' or "No". 
We don't want any long-winded explanations. Personally, I have 
110 desire to listen to it. If you want to answer the question, we would 
appreciate it very much ; if not, say so. 

Mr. Shub. All right. In answer to the question, I most certainly, 
if called, will help to defend my country. 

Mr. Wood. Against all enemies? 

Mr. Shub. That is right, against all enemies. 

Mr. Velde. Even if that enemy happens to be Soviet Russia ? 

Mr. Shub, Yes. 

Mr. Velde. That is all I have. 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. AVood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be ex- 
cused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Wood. So ordered. 

(The witness was excused.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gunther Wertheimer. 

Mr. Forer. I object to proceeding in the absence of a quorum of (he 
full committee, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Let the record show that for the purposes of hearing this 
witness, the same committee that was set up by the committee for 
liearing the last witness is functioning. 

Mr. Forer, We are proceeding under protest, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr, Wood. Raise your right hand and be sworn. Do you solemnly 
^wear the evidence you give this subcommittee shall be the truth, the 
whole truth, and no'thino- but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr, Wertheimer, I do. 

I would like to say a few words. I have been subpenaed 



% 



946 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Wood. Just a minute. Sit down. If you desire to submit a 
statement for the consideration of the committee, just file it with the 
clerk. il 

TESTIMONY OP GUNTHER WERTHEIMER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, JOSEPH FORER 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your full name, please? 

Mr. Wertheimer. Gunther Wertheimer, W-e-r-t-h-e-i-m-e-r. 

Mr. TA^1ENNER. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. FoRER. Joseph Forer, 711 Fourteenth Street NW., Washing- 
ton, D. C. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Wertheimer? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I was born in Kippenheim, Germany, on July 
13, 1925. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name of the place ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. K-i-p-p-e-n-h-e-i-m. I 

Mr. Ta\'enner. When did you arrive in the United States? 

Mr. Wertheimer. 1936; as a result of Hitler's rise to power i: 
Germany. 

Mr. Velde. Would you repeat that answer? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I say I came here in 1936 as a result of the vie 
tory of fascism in Germany, as a direct result of Hitler's persecution j 
of all those who disagreed with him for whatever reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you presently a citizen of the United States? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you naturalized ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. 1944, Norfolk, Va. 

Mr. Wood. I don't believe I got the witness's age, if he gave it, 
What was your birth date? 

Mr. Wertheimer. July 13, 1925. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational background and 
training? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I began my education in Germany, went to a pub- 
lic school there, and then went to a gymnasium. 

After coming here, I went to a public school in Brooklyn, went to 
a junior high school, and graduated as valedictorian of my class. I 
went to New Utrecht High School. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where? 

Mr. Wertheimer. In Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr, Tavenner. What was the name of the high school ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. New Utrecht. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell it, please? 

Mr. Wertheimer. The "New" as well as "Utrecht"? U-t-r-e-c-h-t. 
New, N-e-w. 

After that I went to City College in New York City for a couple of 
months. I attended Williams College in Williams, Holy Cross Col- 
lege in Worcester, Mass., Dartmouth College in Hanover, I went 
to Williams College again to receive my degree; graduated there cum 
laude. Phi Beta Kappa. I received my masters of art degree in 
Columbia University, and after that I am continuing my education at 
Johns Hopkins University as a John Martin Vincent fellow in history, ll 



i 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 947 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have yon been in Baltimore? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I have been in Baltimore since 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1 notice that yon were naturalized in the Federal 
court at Norfolk, Va. 

Mr. Wertheimer. I was in the Navy at that time. I served in the 
Navy between 1948 and 1946. 1 was released 

Mr. Wood. You mean continuously between those dates? 

Mr. Wertheimer. What is that, please? 

Mr. Wood. You served continuously between those two dates? 

Mr. Wertheimer. That is right. 

]Mr. TAVENNEii. Where were you stationed, and what was your rat- 
ing while in the Navy ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. Well, I was a seaman. I was stationed at a num- 
ber of places : Newport and Camp Perry, Va. ; Rhode Island — I jae- 
lieve the station was Quonset. I was with the Seabees for awhile. 
I was also later chosen out of the ranks for the oiRcers training pro- 
gram, V-12. I was discharged as a seaman M^th a commission, how- 
ever, as ensign in the Naval Reserve. 

Mr. Tavenner. You still hold that commission in the Naval 
Reserve ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your record of employment? 

Mr. Wertheimer. Well, outside of some odd jobs during my high- 
school time, I have been a student most of my life. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I reside at 2420 Eutaw Place, Baltimore. 

Mr. Tavenner. Has that been the place of your residence since you 
first went to Baltimore ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. No. I moved. I have lived elsewhere as well. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the addresses of the other places 
where you lived ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. 20 — I don't quite remember the street number. 
It is North Calvert Street. I don't really remember what the number 
of the street is. 

Mr. Tavenner. While in New York, were you a registered voter 
of the American Labor Party ? 

Mr. Wertheimer (after conferring with his counsel). I would like 
to protest the question as an infringement of the right to the secret 
ballot. I think that certainly is implied in that question, and I would 
like to register a strong protest. 

Mr. Taatenner. Isn't the registration of voters a matter of public 
information? 

Mr. FoRER. In New York there is a State law against disclosing 
the registration of voters. It is not a matter of public information 
in the State of New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does the witness know ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I take the word of my counsel for that. 

Mr. TA^^iNNER. Do you refuse to answer the question? 

Mr. Wertheimer. So far I have only protested the question. 

Mr. Wood. Well, if there is a law against a man divulging his 
political registration in the city of New York — I don't know whether 
there is such a law or not. Counsel says there is. That's all I know. 

Mr. FoRER. There is a law against any official making that public. 
In other words, Mr. Tavenner was proceeding on the assumption that 



948 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

registrations in New York are a matter of public record. I was 
correcting him. They are not. 

Mr. Wood. I see. t am sorry. I misunderstood you. 

Mr. FoRER. The witness has objected to the question as an infringe- 
ment of the right of the secret ballot, and is asking that the committee 
withdraw the question. 

Mr. Wood. The witness hasn't been asked if he so voted. By the 
way, what is there about being registered as a member of the Ameri- 
can Labor Party that is so odious or objectionable? I never heard 
of it being branded as being in any way subversive. 

Mr. FoRER. He didn't say it was. 

Mr, Wertheimer. The question is, in appearing before this com- 
mittee and being asked any number of questions, and, apparently, 
any question that is asked is taken up by the newspapers that any 
name that is named or anything else 

Mr. Wood. As a matter of fact, I am a registered voter in the 
Democratic Party. I never made any apology for it anywhere. 

Mr. Forer. I think it is a matter of public record that you are a 
Democrat. 

Mr. Wood. XotAvithstanding we have some members of that party 
we are not so proud of. I guess there are some that are not so proud 
of me. 

Mr. Wertheimer. I would like to restate the objection which I 
made at first, which I hold 

Mr. Wood. As far as I am concerned, I am going to respect your 
wishes. 

Mr. Wertheimer. I am very glad of that. 

Mr. Wood. If you don't want to divulge whether you are a registered 
voter, you don't have to. 

Mr. Ta^t]nner. Are you acquainted with Samuel and Sadie 
Tonkonogy- 



Mr. Wertheimer. I am not acquainted- 



Mr. Ta\^nner (continuing). Who resided at lT7l East Fifteenth 
Street, Brooklyn, N. Y. ? 

Mr. Wertheimer (after conferring with his counsel). The two 
people mentioned are my in-laws. Mr. Samuel Tonkonogy has 'been 
dead. I never met him. 

I would also like to register some protest as to bringing in an 
entirely family relationship which I think has certain dignities. I 
don't know whether they belong to this room. 

Mr. Wood. It may develop in your later testimony that it is mate- 
rial, sir; but for the time being, if you have no objection to giving 
tlie information 

Mr. Wertheimer. I gave my answer, sir. 

Mr. Forer. He answered the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether either of them was a mem 
ber of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
of possible self-incrimination, and restate my protest even more 
vigorously. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Wertheimer, the committee has information 
indicating that in September of 1949 that you and Dr. Ruth Bleier 
and Mr. Louis Shub and your wife, whose name I understand is Joan, 



I 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 949 

conferred regardin<!: the formation of the Maryland Connnittee for 
Peace. 

Mr. Wertheimer. JNlr. Tavenner 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to ask you if that is true, and, if so, 
will you tell us the circumstances under which this oro;anization was 
formed ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I claim my privilej^e under the fifth amendment, 
the answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you confer with anyone in Septeml^er of 1949 
regarding the formation of the Maryland Connnittee for Peace? 

JNIr. Wertheimer. I still refuse on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to the Baltimore Sun of March 20, 1950, 
at page 2-4, Gunther Wertheimer identified himself as the organizer 
of the Marjdand Committee for Peace, and stated tliat the first meet- 
ing of the committee was held at the YMCA on December 7, 1950, 
and that this meeting was arranged between you and Dr. Kuth Bleier. 
Is that statement correct that appeared in the press? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that was attributed to you. 

Mr. Wertheimer. I refuse to answer the question on the ground 
that the answer might incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Under what circumstances did you first meet Dr. 
Ruth Bleier? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 
• Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Dr. Ruth Bleier? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you come to this hearing room this morning- 
accompanied by Dr. Ruth Bleier ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Wood. Have you seen her here today, sir ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. Excuse me. 

(The witness, Mr. Wertheimer, confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Wood. I say, have you seen her here today, Dr. Ruth Bleier? 

Mr. Wertheimer. What is that? 

Mr. Wood. Have you se.en Dr. Ruth Bleier here today? 

Mr. Wertheimer (after conferring with his counsel). I refuse on 
the same grounds of possible self-incrimination. 

Mr. Wood, Isn't she right behind you there in the hearing room 
now ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I don't have eyes in the back of my head. 

Mr. Wood. Didn't you just leave her when you came to the witness 
stand ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. :Mr. Wertheimer, I hand you the March 20, 1950, 
edition of the Baltimore Sun, to which I have referred, and I will ask 
you to read the heading of the column and the first paragraph. 

Mr. Wertheimer [reading] : 

Repoi't Inspired Move for Peace ; Quakers Findings Credited by Committee 
Organizer — The idea of founding the Maryland Committee of I'eace came from 
a report prepared by the Society of Friends giving some reasons for achieving 
peace, Gunther Wertheimer, organizer of the group, said yesterday. 

Incidentally, I have that report with me, if the connnittee would 
like occasion to read it, see it. 



to 



950 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you give the information to the press which 
you have just read? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Isn't it a fact that the statement is entirely erro- 
neous where it says that the idea of founding the Maryland Commit- 
tee for Peace came from a report prepared by the Society of Friends ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
iirounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Isn't it a fact that in September of 1949, several 
months prior to the holding of your meeting, and several months prior 
to the report that was issued by the Society of Friends, you conferred 
with Dr. Bleier, Mr. Shub, and possibly others with relation to the 
formation of the Maryland Committee for Peace? 

(Congressman Doyle entered the room at this point.) 

Mr. Wertheimer (after conferring with his counsel). Well, I 
would like to claim the privilege of the fifth amendment against pos- 
sible self-incrimination. Also, I would like to ask the committee, 
which is supposedly investigating subversive activities in the Balti- 
more defense area, what this line of questioning has to do with it. I 
think that it is a tactic of browbeating and intimidation that is being 
followed here, which I would like to make strong protest against. 

Mr. Tavenner. This matter has a great deal to do with communism 
in the defense area of Baltimore 

Mr, Wertheimer. So far the questioning 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. If it is true. 

Mr. Wertheimer. So far the questioning has been about peace, Mr. 
Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. That the Maryland Committee for Peace had its 
origin in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Wertheimer. I think so far the questioning has been about 
matters relating to peace, 

Mr. Wood. Let's don't argue. Let's answer if we are going to ; if 
not, say so. 

Mr. Wertheimer. I would like to take 

Mr. Tavenner. Isn't it true that the Communist Party instigated 
the formation of the Maryland Committee for Peace? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I claim the privilege against possible self- 
incrimination. 

Mr. Wood. And refuse to answer for that reason ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. And refuse to answer for that reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr, Chairman. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Velde? 

Mr. Velde. I want to ask you the same question I asked the previous 
witness. In case this country would become engaged in a war, would 
you fight on the side of the United States? 

Mr. Wertheimer. If my country is attacked by any nation, I would 
come to its defense. That has been my record in the past, I believe 
that the best defense of our country is peace. I think that the question 
that you are asking is one which presupposes the inevitability of war, 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 951 

which is a ])resiii)])osition wliich I must challen<^e because they are 
not borue out by the facts. 

Mr. Velde. In case we become engaged in a conflict, in a war, witli 
Soviet Russia, I ask you if you would figlit on the sicie of the United 
States, not in case we are attacked or do attack. 

Mr. Wertiieimer. What is that? I didn't get that last point. 

Mr. Velde. In either case, whether we attack or we are attacked. 

Mr. Wertiieimer. In other words, you are following the point of 
view^ raised by the late Secretary of the Navy ]\Iatthews, who sa3^s 
we have to become aggressors for peace. I don't think that the Amer- 
ican i)eo]:)le are ready to become aggressors for anything. 

]Mr. Velde. AVill you answer my question ? 

Mr. Wertiieimer. I answered your question : That I am ready to 
come to the defense of my country at all times. 

JNIr. Velde. You are assuming that 

Mr. Wertiieimer. I am assuming that my country is not going to 
attack other nations. I think that would be a rathei- • 

]\Ir. Velde. In case w^e do become involved in a conflict, either way, 
whether or not w^e are attacked or we are the attackers, would you 
fight on the side of the United States against Soviet Kussia? 

Mr. Wertiieimer. I was under the understanding that our objective 
is peace, and I stick by that understanding. 

Mr. Velde. I want a simple answer to the question. I think it is 
a simple question. 

Mr. Wertiieimer. I will come to the defense of my country when- 
ever my country is in need of that defense, whenever the occasion 
requires it. 

I W'Ould also like to point out, incidentally, to the committee the 
words of a very famous American statesman by the name of Carl 
Schurz, who said : "]\Iy country, right or wrong — when right to keep 
it right ; when wrong, to set it right." 

Mr. Velde. Then,! take it that, in case we did become involved in 
a conflict, you would first decide whether or not we were right, and 
then you would decide whether you would fight or not ? 

Mr. Wertiieimer. As I said, if w^e become involved in a conflict, if 
I were called upon to serve arms, I would go as all other people are 
going; I would be as unhappy to go to war as all people are, and I will 
spend all of my time and all of my energy to make such a war impos- 
sible. There is no reason for it. War will not solve anything, and 
I would like to ask who is afraid of peace ; that peace workers should 
be called to come before this committee, be intimidated by it, be pil- 
loried by it, be held up to the public as so-called subversives. And I 
think that some of these questions, incidentaljy, are being answered 
in the press, which, on the day after the first peace proposals Avere 
made on June 23, carried headline after headline saying "Peace scare 
hits New York. Commodity market went tumbling down." 

Mr. Velde. I don't care to hear this. 

Mr. Wertiieimer. I think this is part of the record. 

Mr. Wood. He asked you a simple question and you answered it. 

Mr. Wertiieimer. I felt it necessary to amplify that answer. I 
think the question is based on a very dangerous assumption. It says 
plainly that we are ready to attack another country. I think that is 
going to be repudiated by the American peojjle. 



952 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Mr. Doyle. You don't think yon have the exclusive interest in 
world peace; do you? 

Mr. Werttieimer. No. I know that interest is shared by millions 
of people all over" the world. 

]Mr. Doyle. Every member of this committee shares it, too. 

Mr. Wertheimer. Tlien, why bring peace people before yon? 

Mr. Doyle. May I say this to you, young man. Some of us have 
given of our own flesh and blood in the interest of peace. I am one 
of them. I resent very much your coming here and trying to lecture 
this committee on your theory and saying that w^e are not interested 
in peace. I want you to understand that. By the time you are some- 
what older, you will understand that men with your theory don't have' 
the exclusive interest in world peace. 

Mr. Wertheimer. I will 

Mr. Doyle. With reference to Secretary of Navy Matthews, I think 
yon are misinterpreting the gentleman's emphasis on peace, when he 
stated that we need to have aggressors for peace. He meant that we 
needed to emphasize peace more in the future than we have in the 
past, and yon are placing an entirely erroneous 

Mr. Wertheimer. I would like to read that passage to you, since 
I have it here from the New York Times. 

Mr. Do^iXE. I am familiar \Yith it. 

Mr. Wertheimer. That we should be willing to pay any price for 
peace. And, then, this is the quotation : 

Even to the price of instituting a war to compel cooperation for peace. 

And he went on to say : 

Though it casts us in a character new to a true democracy, the initiator of a 
war for aggression, it would win for us a proud and popular title. We would 
become the first aggressors for peace. 

Well, I would like to point out. No. 1, we wouldn't be the first, if 
this were the policy to be followed by the country. Hitler, also, was 
an aggressor for peace Avhen he attacked Poland, Czechoslovakia, 
Austria. He was doing it all in the name of peace, and he didn't fool 
anyone. 

Mr, Doyle. I have this one closing observation, Mr. Chairman. Of 
course, the kind of peace you are advocating is a peace with the Soviet 
Union, or the kind they propose. 

Mr. Wertheimer. If you say that a peace with the Soviet Union is 
something, we need, otherwise we are going to have war 

Mr. Doyle. We need peace with all the world. Tliere is no ques- 
tion about that, 

I want to close my remark to you, young man, just by saying I want 
the record to show^ I want you to realize that when you come here and 
try to lecture this committee on the theory that this committee is not 
interested in world peace and fighting for world peace merely because 
we are trying to find out where there are phony peace programs pro- 
posed, and where the Communists are inspiring and initiating phony 
peace programs such as have been proposed in many cases, we are 
going to uncover subversive influences in this country wherever they 
appear, if we can. j 

Mr. Wertheimer. May I say just one word? f 

Mr. Doyle, On that basis, sir, and I will not take more of your 
time — on that basis we are not trying to interfere nor handicap legiti 



< 



COMMUNIST ACTniTIES IN BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 953 

mate nor lionest-to-God good-faith peace proposals ; but where they 
are inspired, as tliey have been in this country, by Connnunists, sub- 
versive influences, we are going to work our heads off to try to un- 
cover them. We are not trying to hurt any peace movement that is 
an honest peace movement. 

With that, I close, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Wertiieimer. 1 would like to say one word on that, Mr. Doyle. 
I would like to call to your attention 

Mr. Wood. Let's not go into a lecture here. 

Mr. Wertheimer. After all, I have been subjected to a lecture on 
the basis of my youth. I would like to uphold the privilege of young 
people to participate in the shaping of the foreign policy of this 
country. 

Mr. Wood. Would you please unwind for a moment ? 

Mr. Walter. What part of Germany were you born in ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I was born near the Black Forest. 

Mr. Walter. Is that in eastern Germany or western Germany ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. It is in western Germany. 

Mr. Walter. Have you had any connection with any German 
groups before you advocated the setting up of this alleged peace or- 
ganization ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I have lived in this country since 1936. 

Mr. Walter. I didn't ask you that question. Have you been in 
touch with people in Germany who are advocating the unification of 
Germany on the Soviet plan ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. Not to my knowledge : no, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Not to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. No, sir. 

Mr. Walter. In submitting drafts of your thesis did you urge the 
unification of Germany on the Soviet plan, and because of this as Avell 
as other material that you wrote you were denied your degree. 

Mr. Wertheimer. Mr. Walter, I think 

Mr. Walter. Is that a fact ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I think that is a complete untruth, a complete 
untruth. 

Mr. Walter. All right. 

Mr. Wertheimer. I think that you are making the statement just 
for the record. 

Mr. Walter. I am not making the statment for the record. 

Mr. Wertheimer. That is not a dignified way 

Mr. Walter. We don't do that in America. 

Mr. Wertheimer. We don't do what, sir ? 

Mr. Walter. What you have just said that I was doing, making a 
record. 

Mr. Wertheimer, Well, then, why make such a statement? 

Mr. Walter. Just a minute. Wait a minute. We have been in- 
formed that you were denied your degree at Johns Hopkins Univer- 
sity. 

Mr. Wertheimer. I would like to call 

Mr. Walter. Because of the material contained in a thesis that 
you wrote. 

Mr. Wertheimer. I would like to straighten out the record on my 
scholastic background. I have been a student, a graduate student, at 



954 COMlNnJNIST activities in BALTIMORE DEFENSE AREA 

Johns Hopkins. I have passed all of my examinations leading to the 
degree of doctor of philosophy. I have not yet handed in my disserta- 
tion, and I think that the information, when and whoever gave it to 
you, was not telling the truth ; and certainly, by bringing it up in com- 
mittee, I think is placing this committee in a very peculiar light, in 
dealing with such information when it couldn't be confirmed. You 
didn't call the department of history at Johns Hopkins to check that 
information, and to go on an unfounded assertion of that kind I would 
like to protest. 

Mr. Walter. Did you write a thesis on the theory of the unifica- 
tion of Germany ? 

Mr. Wertheimer. I did not. I did not. 

Mr. Wood. Have you written any thesis treating on the subject at 
all? 

Mr. Wertheimer. On what subject? 

Mr. Wood. The unification of Germany. 

Mr. Wertheimer. I might have written a paper dealing with the 
unification of Germany back in 1848, but I don't know whether this 
would come under the present scope 

Mr. Wood. 1848? _ _ ^ 

Mr. Wertheimer. What is that, sir? 

Mr. Wood. Back in 1848? ; 

Mr. Wertheimer. It was a ])i'oblem back in 1848 as well. 

Mr. FoRER. Bismarck unified Germany about that time. i 

Mr. Wood. Any further questions, Mr. Walter? 7 

Mr. Walter. No. } 

Mr. Wood. Mr. Counsel, any further questions ? | 

Mr. Ta\t3nner. No questions. ' 

Mr. Wood. Any reason why the witness should not be excused? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. > 

Mr. Wood. So ordered. 

We have one other witness whose appearance before the committee 
this afternoon has been postponed until 10 :30 o'clock in the morning. 
Until that time, we will take a recess. 

(Thereupon, at 3:30 p.m., a recess was taken until 10:30 a.m. July 
13, 1951.) 

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