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MAY 24 AND 25, 1962 

Printed for the use of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities 

86095 WASHINGTON : 1962 

United States House of Representatives 

FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 



EDWLN; E. WILLIS, Louisiana DONALD C. BRUCE, Indiana 


Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Director 

Alfred M. Nittle, Counsel 

John C. Walsh, Co-counsel 

GwEXN Lewis, Administrative Assistant 



Synopsis 1165 

May 24, 1962: Testimony of: 

Chi-chou Huang 1169 

Afternoon session: 

Chi-chou Huang (resumed) 1175 

May 25, 1962: Testimony of: 

Chi-chou Huang (resumed) 1197 

Index i 


Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, T9th Congress [1946] ; 60 Stat. 
812, which provides: 

Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 


Rule X 


17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 

Rule XI 


(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and at- 
taclis the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to 
the Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such 
investigation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chainnan of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by such chairman or member. 

Rule XII 


Sec. 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the laws 
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem neces- 
sary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives 
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative 
agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the juris- 
diction of such committee ; and, for that purfjose, shall study all pertinent reports 
and data submitted to the Congress by the agencies in the executive branch of 
the Government. 


House Resolution 8, January 3, 1961 

Rule X 


1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 

(r) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 

Rule XI 


18. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States. 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in 
any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 


27. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in 
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary, 
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness 
of the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject 
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee; and, for that 
purpose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House 
by the agencies in the executive branch of the Government. 



This is tlie account of a Chinese student ^Yllo, at the end of World 
War II, came to study in the United States Avhere he was so influ- 
enced by Communist propai»:anda tliat he returned prematurely to 
the Communist-occupied section of his homeland to join forces with 
the Chinese Keds. 

In September 1945, Chi-cliou Huang entered Johns Hopkins Uni- 
versity in Baltimore as a premedical student on a scholarship from 
the Yumian Pro^'incial Government. After one semester he trans- 
ferred to the University of ^Maryland, located only a few miles from 
Washington, D.C. 

Before long, Huang's interest in his studies was surpassed by his 
concern — and confusion — over the civil war between the Communists 
and Nationalists in China. 

Huang had had no knowledge of communism before he came to this 
country. In order to leam what the fighting was all about, he began 
reading everything he could get his hands on pertaining to social 
problems, communism, and China. He visited the Library of Con- 
gress, sought out books on these subjects — and was impressed by what 
he read. 

As he testified before the committee : 

My ideas were very va,^ie and sketchy ; but according to those sketchy few- 
books I read, under socialism there would be equality and prosperity and free- 
dom for every individual. So I thousht. well, that is the kind of society the 
Chinese people should have and one I would enjoy living under, for I would not 
have to worry about my personal future, occupation, or job, and that kind of 

Huang's conclusions were bolstered by articles about China con- 
tained in Communist newspapers, magazines, and pamphlets sold in 
a "progressive" bookshop in Washington; the pro-Communist views 
of another Chinese student at the University of IMaryland; and 
theories expomided by a campus group of the Yomig Progressives 
of America which was set up to support Henry Wallace, the Progres- 
sive Party candidate for President in the 1948 election. 

A lecture on socialism by Scott Nearing in Washington in late 
1947 or early 1948 also had a marked influence on Huang, as did the 
fact that, on this same occasion, he was befriended by Dr. Frederick A. 
Blossom, manager of Nearing's lecture series and then a Library of 
Congress employee. 

In the latter part of 1948, Huang decided to return to China to 
join the Communist forces which then controlled the northern part 
of the country. He Avent to Dr. Blossom, avIio introduced him to 
Maud Russell. She suggested that he go to Hong Kong and con- 
tact a certain Chinese newspaper which strongly supported the Chi- 
nese "democratic'' movement. 

In the spring of 1949, 5 months after arriving in Hong Kong — and 
after visiting the newspaper office to which ho liad been referred — 



Huang was directed to a small, crowded boat manned by a Chinese 
crew. The boat took its Communist and pro-Communist passengers 
to the north China port, of Tientsin, wliere they were given a royal 
welcome by Red officials. The new arrivals were fed the finest food 
and lodged in the most luxurious quarters in the city. 

After several days in Tientsin, they were sent to Peking. Here 
they were given civilian "uniforms'' and pocket money and treated to 
entertainment, films, feasts, sightseeing excursions, operas, etc. Huang 
became bored and annoyed with this treatment and asked to be assigned 
work that would contribute to the revolution. He was told to be 
patient, that he needed to readjust to being in China again. 

After a month in Peking, he was sent to the North China Univer- 
sity of the Peoples Revolution where, for about 6 months, he was 
"re-educated" away from the "old society" he had known and toward 
what was to exist in the "new society." 

Huang was somewhat disappointed when he foimd that his teachers 
would not permit him to dissent from anything they said, even when 
he knew they were lying in their teachings about the United States, 
a subject about which he had recent and personal knowledge. Never- 
theless, he conceded that it might be necessary to prohibit any debate 
among students imtil they were better indoctrinated in, and adjusted 
to, what was expected under the new Communist regime. 

In Februaiy 1950, Huang was sent back to Peking to teach English 
at the Foreign Language Institute. In 1953 he married a teacher 
at the institute, who was an avid Communist. 

The Communist Party conducted widespread "rectification" cam- 
paigns among its members on several occasions during Huang's first 
few years under the Red Chinese rule. These were initiated because, 
in periods of relaxed discipline, Communist bureaucrats furnished 
their offices lavishly, worked little at their jobs, and became complacent 
about the future course of the revolution. The rectification campaigns 
always produced much self-criticism by party members which, in turn, 
led to temporary reforms. 

Huang was still enthusiastic a"bout the possibilities of communism 
until the mid-1950's — although he had never been able to accept fully 
its limitations on personal freedom. At this time the Red Chinese 
Government launched a 12-year plan that was supposed to raise Red 
China's standard of living to that achieved in the United States. The 
Communist leaders decided that, in order to fulfill this plan, greater 
freedom would have to be given to the intellectuals. It was with 
this thought that ]\Iao Tse-tung, chairman of tlie Communist Partv of 
Cliina, made his now famous speech which contained the exhortation : 

Let one hundred flowers bloom. Let one hundred different schools of thought 

At the Foreign Language Institute, which had branched out into 
many other fields since Huang first arrived there, much new re- 
search was undertaken and broader studies were introduced. At 
Peking University some professors even incorporated certain capitalist 
theories in their courses of instruction. The intellectuals were 
pleased, not only with their new freedom, but because mandatoiy po- 
litical activity was reduced to a fraction of what it had been. 


Somewhat later, however, the Communist Party launched another 
"rectification" campaign, and this time the usual confessions and self- 
criticisms of party mombors did not satisfy the Red hierarchy. The 
party also called upon iLou-C'ommuuists to join in the criticism of the 
party and its members. At first the non-Communist intellectuals were 
reluctant to say anything because they did not trust the party or its 
motives. But the party pleaded for their cooperation "for the comi- 
try's good."" Connnunist leaders promised that there would be no 
reprisals for criticisms made. 

A few non-Communists cautiously pointed out party shortcomings 
and, when no retaliation came, others among the intellectuals followed 
suit. Then more and more joined in. Newspapers overflowed with 
accusations against Communists. Some persons went so far as to 
declare that they did not like communism and would like to see 
Communists dead. Still there was no retaliation. 

At Huang's institute, new and bigger bulletin boards were built be- 
cause existing ones could not liold all the complaints about the party 
offered by the intellectuals. 

Suddenly all this was brought to an end. The Communist Party 
amiounced that "rightist," "anti-party"" elements had used the m- 
creased freedom to cause trouble for the party and the government. 
They had diverted the rectification campaign from its proper course, 
and this would liave to be corrected. The party, therefore, organized 
a bitter "anti-rightist"" struggle to smash all open anti-communism. 

At the same time the party stepped up its "rectification" campaign, 
and all intellectuals — Communist and non-Communist — were forced 
to participate fully. Huang described to the committee how it was 
carried out at the institute : 

In this struggle, everybody — I mean, every intellectual in every organization — 
had to go through the process of criticism and self-criticism. Some in small 
groups, some in larger groups — a few were conducted with the participation of 
the entire school * * *. At these meetings, each person, each participant, had 
to re-examine his own thoughts. In other words, they had to go through a 
great process of thcnight remolding, by exposing their own views and thoughts. 
You read your own thoughts in written form, aloud to the group ; and the 
group would criticize you, point out what was wrong and what was right, in 
addition to your own criticism. * * * 

They made everybody go through a stage, a fairly long period of criticism and 
self-criticism, and finally, in l'.i.")7. late 1!».jT, the party decided to take measures 
to send intellectuals to the countryside to go through a period of manual labor. 

Huang and others from the institute were sent to a collective farm. 
They worked as many as 16 hours a day, for this was part of Red 
China's attempt to make the "Great Leap Forward."' After a year 
they were transferred to work iron mines and blast furnances for 3 
months. Huang characterized this period as "silly."' The intellec- 
tuals at first did not know anything about farming and, just at the 
time they were beginning to learn something from the peasants, were 
shifted to the mines and the blast furnaces. Again, knowing nothing, 
they produced little. 

In 1959, Huang was sent back to the Foreign Language Institute. 
He w^as now a candidate for the Connniniist Party but did not 
become a member. Soon afterwards he was sent to Iraq to teach the 
Chinese language under a cultural exchange agreement. He had 
to leave his wife and two children in China. 

86095—62 2 


In Iraq he became the head of the Chinese Section at the Insti- 
tute of Languages of Baghdad University. After his 2-year con- 
tract had been fulfilled, he was ordered to return to Red China 
for a "vacation." As Huang told the committee, the Chinese Com- 
munists knew that "if you lived abroad too long, all kinds of influences 
would have affected your thoughts and action * * *." 

On June 8, 1961, Huang and a fellow Chinese teacher boarded an 
airplane for their return trip to Red China by way of Damascus, 
Athens, and Prague. Huang was now determined to try to defect 
somewhere enroute. 

When the plane landed at Athens for a short stopover, Huang was 
amazed to find that he could just pick up his suitcase and walk away 
from the airport, which he did. He obtained official protection from 
Greek authorities. 

From Greece, he proceeded to West Germany where he stayed for 
10 months before coming back to the United States. 

Wlien Huang was asked by the committee why he had defected, he 

In my experience during the past 10 years' life, including the life lived m 
Iraq, I found the regimentation, the limitation of personal liberty, unbearable. 
You cannot do this, you cannot do that, you have to think in this way, you 
have to in that way, and that way is the only correct way of thinking : so it 
made me in many cases feel that I was not honest. 

iti lit * * * * * 

That kind of mental pressure. They do not beat you. You are not beaten 
by roughnecks or hoodlums. They do not have such practice * * * but a sort 
of abstract pressure that I felt very strongly. 

* « * » * * * 

If you said something against the party line, then you have something to 
worry about: I have said something wrong, I have acted in the wrong way, 
now I must start preparing self-criticism, and you don't know how long that 
will take. 

Sometimes you write again and again to criticize yourself. Sometimes I 
felt rather sick of it, because I felt I have no more to say along this line. But 
they say it is still not good enough ; you should study more and analyze your 
thoughts * * ♦. 

Huang had learned the difference between Comnnuiist propaganda 
and Communist practice. 


(Testimony of Chi-Cliou Huang) 

THURSDAY, MAY 24, 1962 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D.C. 
executive session ^ 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to call, 
at 11 :30 a.m. in Room 225, Old House Office Building, Washington, 
D.C, Hon. Francis E. Walter, chairman, presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Francis E. Walter, 
of Pennsylvania ; Morgan M. Moulder, of Missouri ; Clyde Doyle, of 
California; William M. Tuck, of Virginia; August E. Johansen, of 
Michigan; Donald C. Binice, of Indiana; and Henry C. Schadeberg, 
of Wisconsin. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., director; Alfred 
M. Nittle, comisel ; and Donald T. Appell, investigator. 

The Chairman. ]Mr. Huang, we welcome you and hope that you 
can assist the conmiittee in developing the type information the 
American people ought to have about certain events in your life and 
about a regime of great importance to our country. 

Will you raise your right hand, please. 

Do 3^011 solemnly swear that the testimony you give will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Huang. I do. 

The Chairman. You may proceed. 


Mr. Nittle. Would you state your full name for the record, please? 

Mr. Huang. My present name is Chi-chou Huang. 

Mr. Nittle. How old are you, Mr. Huang ? 

Mr, Huang. I am 39 years old. 

Mr. Nittle. Where were you born ? 

Mr. Huang. In Yunnan Provmce, China. 

Mr. Nittle, In what year ? 

Mr. Huang. 1923. 

Mr. Nittle. What was the name of your father? 

Mr. Huang. My father died very young. I never had a chance to 
know him. As I recall, he was called by various names. The one 
I remember most often whenever he was mentioned is Yu-ho. 

Mr. Nittle. What year did your father die ? 

1 Released by the committee and ordered to be printed. 



Mr. Huang. I don't know exactly, but when I was a very small 

Mr. NiTTLE. How long did you continue to reside at the place of 
your birth in Yunnan Province, China? 

Mr. Huang. Until 1945 when I left to study in United States. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What was the extent of your education in China prior 
to your leaving in 1945 to come to the United States ? 

Mr. Huang. After graduation from high school, senior school, I 
went to study in Yunnan University. Then the Yunnan Provincial 
Government set up this special class for sending students abroad — to 
America — for further studies, and I passed the examination and was 
enrolled in that special class. There I studied for one full year and 
graduated about 1942 perhaps. But then the exit visas were not 
immediately granted and our departure for the United States was 
delayed. We were sent to study in Southwest Consolidated 

Mr. NiTTLE. Under whose auspices did you come to the United 
States to study ? 

Mr. Huang. The Yunnan Provincial Government. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Were you financed by the Yunnan Province ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Were you sent here to make any particular study ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. Everyone had a special field. 

Mr. NiTTLE. A^^iat was your field ? 

Mr. Huang. I was supposed to study public health. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you have any choice of university that you would 
attend here? 

Mr. Huang. Everything was arranged by the Provincial govern- 
ment. I was recommended to, and accepted by, Johns Hopkins 

Mr. NiTTLE. What was the date of your arrival here at Johns 
Hopkins ? 

Mr. Huang. I arrived in the United States, I believe, in May or 
June 1945, but the studies began, of course, in September. 

Mr. NiTTLE. "Wliere did you maintain your residence between the 
time of your arrival and the commencement of your studies in Septem- 
ber 1945? 

Mr. Huang. For a short while in New York, a few days, and then 
immediately we came down to Baltimore, I remember. 

Mr. NiTTLE. You were with a gi'oup of students ? 

Mr. Huang. Two of us were sent to Johns Hopkins. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Who received you here and introduced you to your 
school ? 

Mr. Huang. Nobody. I don't remember anybody accompanied us, 
because there was only one director who accompanied the bunch of 
40 students. He couldn't possibly take each one to the different 
schools. So we j ust came down by ourselves, the two of us. 

Mr. NiTTLE. At the time you left China, was it then free China ? 

Mr. Huang. At that time China was under the K.M.T. [Kuomin- 
tang] Nationalist Government. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Prior to your arrival in the United States, did you 
have any association at all with the Communist movement? 

Mr. Huang. No, I didn't have any knowledge of that. 


Mr. Xttfle. Had you made any studies of comniunisni prior to your 
arrival in the United States? 

]Mr. Huang. No, never. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you have any sympathy for communism at that 

Mr. Huang. I diihrt know anything about it. 

The Chairman. Prior to your arrival at Johns Hopkins and the 
commencement of your studies in September 1945, did you come in 
contact with communism in any way while in the United States? 

Mr. Huang. No. 

Mr. NiTTLE. How long did you remain at Johns Hopkins ? 

Mr. Huang. Only one semester. 

I transferred to University of Maryland about February. 

Mr.NiTTLE. Of 1946? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. The next year. 

Mr. NiTTLE. ^Vliile you were at Johns Hopkins and prior to your 
transfer to the University of Maryland, did you come in contact with 
communism in any way ? 

Mr. Huang. No, never. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What did you study at Johns Hopkins ? 

Mr. Huang. I was enrolled in premedical studies. 

Mr, NiTTLE. What was the occasion for your transfer to the Uni- 
versity of Maryland ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, I remember that some school fellow told me 
casually that life in the University of Maryland was more lively, with 
more social activities, unlike Johns Hopkins where studies were the 
main concern. He said it would be more interesting there at the 
University of Maryland and then he also said, as I recall, that it 
would take less time to complete my medical studies at the University 
of Maryland where, if you combined courses, you could get the medical 
doctor's degree in 7 years. In Johns Hopkins it would take longer 
time. So I thought these were all advantages. Of course, I had al- 
ready wasted much time, waiting after graduation from the special 

Mr. NiTTLE. To effect the transfer to Maryland, did you have to ob- 
tain the consent of your Chinese people abroad ? 

Mr. Huang. I do not recall exactly but perhaps I sent a letter of 
request to the authorities concerned and got approval. 

Mr. NiTTLE. How long did you remain at the University of Mary- 
land ? 

Mr. Huang. Up to the end of 1948, but what month I camiot re- 

Mr. NiTTLE. From the period of your arrival at the University of 
Maryland to the time of your departure, did you continue your pre- 
medical studies there? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, I did. 

Mr. NiTTLE. It was indicated to me that you might have changed 
your course of study from premedical to agriculture. 

Mr. Huang. Yes. That was at the end, near the date of my depar- 
ture from the United States. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What induced you to alter your course of study from 
premedical to agriculture ? 


Mr. Huang. The main reason, as I recall, was that, at the time. I 
had already decided to go back to China and I thought the public 
health and medicine in the United States were too advanced to be very 
practical in backward China. I might as well learn one or two things 
about raising cows or chickens, which would be more useful. So I 
thought I would tiT to do something along that line. That is why I 
changed into agriculture. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Wlien did you decide to return to China ? 

Mr. Huang. Of course, it is difficult to say just when I came to 
that decision, the exact date, but that was probably during the last 
few months of 1948. I was coming to that decision, but the exact date 
I do not remember. 

Mr. XiTTLE. At the time you decided to return to China, China 
was in a state of revolution and rebellion; was it not? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. XiTTLE. There was a civil war between the Nationalist Govern- 
ment, which you had left, and the Communist movement. When you 
were intending to return to China, did you intend to return to Com- 
munist China or to Nationalist China ? 

(At this point Chairman Walter left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Huang. My intention was to return to Communist China. 

Mr. NiTTLE. That is, the area which was then dominated by them? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. That was my intention, but I did not 
know whether it was possible. 

Mr. NiTTLE. The Chinese Communists had not at that time com- 
pleted their conquest of the whole of China I 

Mr. Huang. No. I was thinking of going perhaps to the northwest 
or those areas occupied by the Communists. That was pretty early. 

Mr. NiTTLE. In 1948 was Yunnan Province under the control of the 
Communist regime ? 

Mr. Huang. No, it was under the Yunnan Provincial Government. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you have a family in Yunnan Province at this time ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. jSIv mother was still living and I had a brother. 

Mr. NiTTLE. "Wlien did your mother die ? 

Mr. Huang. AMien I was already working in Peiping. That is 
about 1950, 1 believe. 

Mr. NiTTLE. The onlv other close relative you have is a brother? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. NiTTLE. "Where is he living now ? 

Mr. Huang. In south China, Province of Yunnan. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Do you maintain any contact with him now ? 

Mr. Huang. No. I have had no contact with anybody. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Do you know whether or not he is a Communist ? 

Mr. Huang. No. I think he was not 3 years ago in 1959, when I 
left China to teach in Baghdad. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What was his occupation at the time you left? 

Mr. Huang. He was head of some accounting department. 

Mr. NiTTLE. For an industry or for the government ? 

Mr. Huang. Industry is government. They don't have private 
industry. I know he worked for a government organization. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Would you relate to the connnittee the circumstances 
which led to your forming the desire to return to Eed China? 


Mr, Huang. We were reading- quite a bit at that time about the 
civil war in China, and this news was most disturbing to me and to 
others, ^lost of the Chinese students studying: here talked about it, 
each expre^smo- the same concern tliat, after the years of hardship 
durin<; the war aj^ainst Japanese agg-ression, Chinese were now killing 
Cliinese in a civil war. 

Mr. XiTTLE. You developed an interest in the civil war and the par- 
ticipants in it? 

]Mr. IFuAxa. Xo, I wouldn't say that. At the beginning we were 
disturbed. We thought what is the use if the whole country is in 
flames, with no peace, what kind of work can we do? Whether we 
were studying medicine or agriculture, with tlie wliole country in 
turmoil there would be no peaceful work for anybody. So I sensed 
that most students here were disturbed in various clegrees. I was 
greatly disturbed. So I began to be more interested in politics and 
social problems and the way out for China as a whole and for me 
personally. So I began to neglect my professional studies and be- 
came interested in magazines and reports, and I also went to libraries 
to borrow books on social problems. Heretofore I never had veiy 
mucli interest in social problems. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Did you seek these books out on your own, or were 
recommendations made to you ? 

Mr. HuAXG. On my own. In fact, I didn't know what books to 
read but I just looked into the Library of Congress and hunted out 
the books about China and social problems and I read some articles 
related to various aspects of social problems, among which there were 
socialistic books. Of course, I cannot recall the titles now. It was 
so long ago. My ideas were very vague and sketchy; but according 
1o those sketchy few books I read, under socialism there would be 
equality and prosperity and freedom for every individual. So I 
thought, well, that is the kind of society the Chinese people should 
have and one I would enjoy living under, for I would not have to 
worry about my personal future, occupation, or job, and that kind 
of thing. 

Mr. XiTTLE. '\Mien you referred to books on "socialism," did you 
mean books on commmiism ? 

Mr. Huang. At the time perhaps one or two. I do not recall. At 
first I did not know whether there was any distinction between com- 
munism and socialism. At the time another Chinese student, a post- 
graduate student, was doing research work at the University of Mary- 
land — his name is Hsaio Chien-chou. This student came from central 
China and I remember he came on his own, not a government schol- 

]Mr. XiTTLE. Had he come with you ? 

Mr. Huang. Xo. I met him at the university. 

jMr. XiTTLE. Was he there when you arrived or did you see him 

Mr. Huang. I cannot recall whether he came earlier or later. I am 
not sure, but we stayed there for a couple of years together and this 
student influenced me greatly, much more than anybody else or even 
the books I had read. He never exactly said he was Communist or 
even pro-Communist. He didn't say that, but all his remarks were 
strongly against Chiang Kai-shek and the Kuomintang government. 


He talked about the ideal society which, according to my impression, 
was quite in line with a socialist society or Communist society. There 
was equality and full employment and liberty and all of that kind 
of thing. 

So niore and more I became interested in social problems, and I 
attended at least one lecture by Dr. Scott Nearing on socialism or some 
other topics related to socialism. All these ideas decided me to go back 
to the Conmiunist revolution although, at the time, I had very little 
knowledge of the Communist movement in China. 

Mr. NiTTUE. "W^io put you in contact with lectures by Scott Nearing? 

Mr. Huang. I do not recall the exact circumstances but I seem to 
recall that I had seen the advertisement of a series of lectures con- 
ducted by Scott Xearmg somewhere in the Washington Post or on 
some wall. I do not remember precisely. 

Mr. NriTLE. In addition to discussions with a Chinese student, 
whose name you have mentioned and who spoke to you very favorably 
of communism, did you have discussions with any other students? 

]Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. NriTLE. Who were they ? 

Mr. Huang. There was another student but he was an American 
boy. He didn't give me much influence though. At the time, I 
was particularly fond of him because he showed very much interest 
in associating with foreign students. He was very kind, polite, and 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was he a friend of Hsaio Chien-chou? 

Mr. Huang. No, he was not. He was, as I remember, a senior, as 
I recall, of the sociology department. He perhaps met Hsaio Chien- 
chou once or twice but he was my friend. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Let me go back for a moment. Was j' our friend, Hsaio 
Chien-chou, known to you to be a Communist at that time? 

Mr. Huang. No, so far as I know even today he is not a Communist. 
An idealist probably. 

Mr. NiTTLE. I see ; do you know where his family was from ? 

Mr. Huang. I remember he said something about central China, 
perhaps Kiangsu Province but I can't be sure. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was that under the domination of the Communist 
movement at the time of your discussions with him ? 

Mr. Huang. No. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Tell us more about the senior in the sociology depart- 
ment, the undergraduate who talked with you. 

Mr. Huang. All right. I came into contact with this boy. He was 
very likable and very considerate. As a foreigner I was very lonely 
weekends, and he came to talk to me and sometimes helped me to cor- 
rect my pronunciation, and we lived in the same donnitory at least 
for a period of time, not in the same room. Whenever he met me he 
was so nice and he wanted to leam some Cliinese, too. So I taught 
him in exchange some Chinese words, a few, not much. He was just 
interested and a very considerate person- So I liked him. We dichi't 
do anything else except this. We went — I do not recall whether I 
suggested to him or we saw the advertisement together — but it is a fact 
that we went to Scott Nearing's lecture together. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did he suggest attendance at the Scott Nearing lecture? 

Mr. Huang. I don't believe so. Perhaps I suggested to him, prob- 


Mr. NiTTLE, Where did you obtain the literature that advised you 
that Nearint^ was deliverinc: a lecture ^ 

Mr. lIuAXG. I do not recall — maybe in the street in Washington. 
I happened to see that, but even before that I think I perhaps had 
already come across one or two books by him in the Library of Con- 

Mr. NiTTLE. IIow^ did you come across books by Scott Nearing in 
the Libraiy of Congress? There are quite a few books there. 

Mr. Huang. Well, you see, at the time I was reading on social prob- 
lems and had looked at the catalogue on sociolog}^" and socialism, all 
of wliicli are related. 

Mr. NiTTLE. That is how you came in contact with Scott Nearing's 
writings ? 

Mr. HuAXG. Yes. I think so, because in this advertisement he prob- 
ably stated socialism or something like that and I thought, oh, that is 
what I was interested in and perhaps then I discussed it. I am not 
so sure. Then we said nothing at the lectures. We just sat at the back 
in a room and listened. 

^Ir. NiTTLE. About how many people attended that lecture ? 

Mr. Huang. Very many, probably a hundred or so. Some sort of 
rented room, I guess, not very well furnished. After Nearing finished 
his lecture on socialism, I recall one incident. Someone in the audience 
stood up and said to Scott Nearing, "If you like socialism why don't 
you go to live in Russia?" I do not recall the answer, but it probably 
was something like this : 

"Well, look, it is impossible for everyone to go to live in Russia." 
That is the only thing I recall about the lecture. Otherwise it was 
all very vague. 

Mr. Doyle (presiding). Mr. Nittle, that was a quorum call for us. 
The committee will have to recess for about 15 minutes. 

The committee will stand in recess until 1 :30. I am sorry to incon- 
venience you. 

("Wliereupon, at 12 :20 p.m., Thursday, ]May 24, 1962, the committee 
was recessed, to reconvene at 1 :30 p.m. the same day.) 


1 :30 p.m. 
Mr. Doyle (presiding). Let the subcommittee reconvene and let 
the record show that a quorum is present. 

(Present : Representatives Doyle, eJohansen, and Bruce.) 
Mr. Doyle. Proceed, Counsel. 


Mr. NiTTLE. Just before the recess, you were telling us about your 
attendance at a lecture with an American student, the lecture being 
given by Scott Nearing. 

Will you proceed in your own way to describe the incident. 

Mr. Huang. I think that was during late 1947 or '48, early '48. 
I am not very sure but this perhaps could be verified. I remember 
at the campus he was one of my good friends. I mean I associated 
with him quite more often. He helped me with my English. I taught 

86095 — 62 3 


him a few Chinese characters. He was so nice and sociable. We went 
to the Scott Nearing lecture once. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you know that Scott Nearing ^ had been a Com- 

Mr. Huang. No, I did not but I supposed he was at least a socialist. 
At the time I wasn't clear about the difference between communism 
and socialism and thought they were the same thin^. And at the 
campus, I think I remember, at the time of Mr. Wallace's campaign 
for the Presidency in 1948, there was also a group of what they call 
Young Progressives [of America] or something — a small group — and 
I mentioned something. I talked with them. Very few I can 

Mr. NiTTLE. Who introduced you to the Young Progressive move- 
ment on the campus? 

Mr. Huang. The Young Progressives, I just happened to see. I 
think they were quite active. They had a badge to support Henry 
Wallace, a kind of round badge. I bought one. Someone gave me it 
or I bought it, for one dollar I think. I was not eligible to vote. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did they hold meetings on the campus or off the 
campus ? 

Mr. Huang. Sometimes. I only remember a place on the lawn 
where several of them stood and I was there and I talked to them. At 
the time I thought Mr. Henry Wallace's democratic ideas, progressive, 
were quite in line with my ideas too. So I talked with them a little. 
I forgot this badge. I remember I paid a dollar for it. I could not 
vote but I thought I liked him. I just bought it for this. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you come in contact with any Communist literature 
at that time ? 

Mr. Huang. Communist literature? Yes, during this period I con- 
tinued to read books borrowed from the Library of Congress and 
some books I bought from what was called the "progressive" bookshop, 
or something like that, near the Greyhound bus station [in Washing- 
ton] where all Communist literatures were sold. I bought some book- 
lets by Lenin and Marx. So that during this whole period, '47 or '48, 
I continued to read occasionally, but not very many books. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you become familiar with a publication called 
The Worker or Daily Worker? 

Mr. Huang. I did not subscribe but I knew the existence of this 
paper because I read it occasionally. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Where did you obtain that publication ? 

Mr. Huang. Sometimes I remember I bought it in Washington 
when I came in town. I think it was sold at the corner somewhere 
near a cafeteria. So when I went mto the cafeteria I had my meals 
and when I came out on the corner I bought it. They were sold 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did anyone call your attention to this publication as 
an organ of tlie Communist movement? 

Mr. Huang. No one in particular but I knew it. 

Mr. NiTTLE. In your discussions with the American student, did 
you or he discuss the Communist movement ? 

^ Mr. Nearing, a long-time and continuing supporter of Commuaist fronts and causes, 
was expelled from the Communist Party in January 1930, after having been a member 
for some years. 


Mr. HuAxo. I doirt recull tluit he particularly mentioned the 
ideology, coniinunisni. 

Mr. Bruce. Did you discuss the socialist movement ? 

Mr. HrAN(;. Xo. I tend to put these two togetlier. I believe he 
also — at least I bought the paper — some! inies he read it too. Although 
I camiot clearly say he actually did — but I have the impression that 
he read what I bought too. Daily Worker at the time. Sometimes 
was the Sunday Worker or something. Was there something like 

Mr. XrrrLE. Did you have any other Communist publications? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. I remember. I did not remember but a few 
moments ago some of you gentlemen mentioned that name. I re- 
member I read it, Masses and Masses and Mainstream. I read that too 
sometimes, not often. 

Mr. NinxE. Did you have any discussion on the subject of com- 
munism, Marxism, or socialism with any other students at the 
university ? 

Mr. Huang. Xo, not any other students but with this Hsaio, the 
Chinese graduate student. We frequently exchanged what we learned 
about democracy and progressive moA^ements; I think at the time it 
was all related to socialism. I exchanged my views quite frequently 
with this Hsaio, who was the only person I trusted politically. 

Mr. XiiTLE. How long did Hsaio remain at the University of 

Mr. Huang. I think I left much before him. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Did you ever see him again ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, in China in Peking. But when I left the United 
States I didn't tell anybody, even Hsaio. I trusted him to a certain 
degree politically but I did not dare to tell even him that I Avanted 
to go back to join the Communist movement. 

Mr. XiTTi.E. Did you tell this to the American student ? 

Mr. Huang. Xo, far less. I couldn't trust him. Actually with 
him it was more of a soil of friendship, his considerate manners, 
polite friendliness, and that sort of thing; but politically I tnisted 
Hsaio more than him. 

Mr. XiiTLE. Did you attend any other lectures by Communists or 
socialists Avith your friends? 

Mr. Huang. I don't recall any other meetings I attended with any 
of them but I attended another political meeting, a big meeting, alone. 

]\fr. XiiTLE. Where was that ? 

Mr. Hi'AXG. At some ''garden" in Xew York, Avhen Mr. Wallace 
came back after his nationwide campaign. 

Mr. XiTrLE. In your sessions Avith the American student, did you 
have any discussions on the subject of communism ? 

Mr. Huang. I do not recall very clearly Avhat Ave actually discussed 
along political lines, not very much. 

The influence upon me Avas mainly from that Mr. Hsaio as a person. 
I think I got more from reading. I mean my knoAvledge, and my ideas 
about socialism or communism. 

Mr. XiTTLE. What did the American student haA-e to say about 
Scott Xearing's lecture? You must have had some discussion about 


Mr. Huang. I remember we came out. During the whole lecture 
we two sat at the side bench. The others sat in front of the rostrum 
but we went rather late. We sat at the corner, I remember, at the side. 
He didn't say anything. I dicbi't say anything much, but let's see — 
afterwards, did we say anything afterwards ? At the meeting we just 
listened. Afterwards I cannot recall. 

It is such a long time ago, but what happened which I remember is 
when we came down to the lobby, Dr. Blossom was there, the manager 
of Scott Nearing's lecture series, selling pamphlets down at the hall 
or lobby, and I went over and bought a few of them. 

JNIr. NiTTLE. Had you known Dr. Blossom prior to this time? 

Mr. Huang. No. 

JNIr. NiTTLE. "Were you introduced to him by another, or did you 
seek his acquaintanceship ? 

Mr. Huang. I think maybe it's mutual. When I went to the desk 
he sold me a few. 

Mr. NiT'ixE. You were interested in this literature and after the 
lecture you went to his desk ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. He was attending and we 

Mr. NiTTLE. Tell us what the conversation was, if you remember. 

JNIr. Huang. Not very much. I don't remember much. He casually 
invited me. Let's see : "My office is on the booklet," or something, not 
exact wording, "when you have time or if you like you come and 
visit us." 

Mr. NiTTLE. When he referred to his office, was there any further 
explanation given to you as to the location and the name of the office? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. It was on the booklets printed. I remember 

Mr. NiTTLE. What is your recollection of the address ? 

Mr. Huang. I can't remember, maybe northwest or something, 
100 something. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was it 125 Fifth Street, Northeast ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, probably. It seems to me it is the manager's 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was the American student with you at that time when 
you talked to Dr. Blossom ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, I think so because I don't recall he left before me. 
I think he was there. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you suggest this meeting with Nearing to the 
American student or did he suggest this meeting to you? 

Mr. Huang. That I cannot say for definitely sure. I can't say 
because I don't recall. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was Hsaio in attendance at the Scott Nearing lecture? 

Mr. Huang. No. That is strange. But I did not tell him about my 
activities with other people. At the time I had that association with 
the Christian clubs — is that what you call them — in the college, 
Maryland, one of the ministers was a good friend of mine, too, and 
a religious worker, IMoya Ball, a girl worker. We were very good 
friends, but with my other duties I didn't have anything to do with 
Hsaio. I seemed to separate them. They did not meet each other, not 
in one group. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Having met Dr. Blossom at the Scott Nearing lecture, 
did you decide to visit at the address given you ? 


Mr. HuAXG. No, not right away but later, when I decided or al- 
ready prepared to leave this country. As I stated, 1 Imd tlie inten- 
tion to go to join the Connnunists but at the time thoy were guerrillas 
fighting in the iiorthwestorn mountains and I didn't know how to get 
there. So I didn't know what to do. I had nobody to advise me and 
I didn't trust anybody to tell my intentions. 

Mr. XiT'iXE. And you did not trust youi- American friend ? 

Mr. HuAXG. No. He didn't even say he was particularly interested 
in supporting i\Ir. Wallace, I think, but he liked democratic discus- 
sion, progressives. But he did discuss with me this progressive move- 
ment because we talked with the Young Progressives on the campus 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did Dr. Blossom talk with your friend at the Scott 
Nearing lecture? 

Mr. HuAXG. No. He didn't seem to. He did not buy anything. 
They did not talk about anything. He stayed sort of with me. 

Mr. NiTTLE. You indicate that you made up your mind to return 
to Red China and you did not know exactly what to do ? 

Mr. HuAXG. That is right. 

Mr. NiTTLE. 'V\niat did you finally decide to do ? 

Mr. HuAX'G. Well, first I thought it was quite difficult to get to 
north China. There were no ships directly and airplanes — I never 
thought of that possibility. I thought there were guerrillas fighting 
there in northwestern mountains. It was difficult to go there. So my 
first attempt was to go to the Soviet Union. So I went to the Russian 
Embassy. So where was it ? Well, I can't recall. 

Mr. NiTTLE. In Washington, D.C. ? 

Mr. HuAXG. Yes. The Soviet Embassy, and I knocked on the big 
door and a young fellow opened the door and asked me about my 
business. I didn't even go into the office. He didn't invite me. So 
I asked him, a young fellow. It seems he was a veiy minor official, 
doorkeeper, because one thing I noticed, which surprised me a little 
too, I remember his heels were all worn, the side like this, the shoes. I 
thought why could they wear such poor shoes. I had such an im- 
pression. Anyway, this young fellow received me and asked my busi- 
ness, and then I told him straightaway. I then said I wished to go 
to the Soviet Union, is it possible to work, to find a job? Is it pos- 
sible? He said sorry, at the present time there wasn't any possibility 
because there were very few ships sailing betAveen the Soviet Union 
and the United States. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was this a discussion with the doorkeeper ? 

Mr. HuAXG. I didn't know for sure what he was but I thought 
he was. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did he take you inside, into a room ? 

Mr. HuAXG. No, he didn't go into a room, just in the hall. 

Mr. NiTTLE. This discussion occurred in the hall at the entrance? 

Mr. Huang. A few exchange of words because he told me right 
away there wasn't any possibility in the foreseeable future because of 
the transportation. He said there were very, very few ships trans- 
porting crews or passengers. But I remember he gave me some forms 
to fill out for application. Perhaps that is for visa or something, the 
form, and he said, "If you send them here and wait and if there is any 
possibility we could give you an answer. You can come again," that 


kind of thing. But I did not wait that long when I saw there was 
no possibility. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Did he ask you what your motives were in desiring to 
go to Soviet Russia ? 

Mr. Huang. No, he didn't ask me anything. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did he ask you where you were from ? 

Mr. Huang. I told him. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you tell him you were sympathetic to communism ? 

Mr. Huang. I even hinted that I think, but I didn't say clearly. 
I said I would like to go back to China but I don't know how to go 
there so I would like to go to Soviet Union to work or to study if 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did he ask you why ? 

Mr. Huang. No, he didn't. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did he take your name and address ? 

Mr. Huang. No. He asked me to fill this form. 

Mr. NiTTLE. And return it later? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. But when I got those forms I never filled them 

Mr. NiTTLE. Then what was your next course of action ? 

Mr. Huang. After this I became disturbed a little, what am I going 
to do. I didn't know what to do. Tlien I remembered this Dr. Nearing 
because he openly proclaimed socialism. I thought they also had 
the socialism, and it would be the same thing, their ideas would be 
quite close at least, and I thought I probably could ask this organiza- 
tion to help me, to give me some advice. That is why I went there. 

Mr. NiiTLE. You went where ? 

Mr. Huang. This address you just mentioned. 

Mr. NiTTLE. The address that Dr. Blossom gave you ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, I think that is the address. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Dr. Frederick A. Blossom. Is that his name ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. That is correct. 

Mr. NiTTLE. In the course of your introduction to Dr. Blossom at 
the lecture, did he tell you what his occupation was ? 

Mr. Huang. I think he said, "I am the manager of this Dr. Nearing 
lecture series," but I had known tliat already because I read it in the 
advertisement. His name too, I think, was on there, manager or 

Mr. NiTTLE. I see. Did he tell you that he had been employed at 
the Library of Congress ? 

Mr. Huang. No. Was he? 

]Mr. NiTTLE. He had been ; yes. 

Mr. Huang. We didn't discuss that. 

Mr. NiTTLE. All right. Proceed. 

Mr. Huang. So I went. I remember it is a very small office, tiny 
and very poorly furnished, but he impressed me very much by this: 
That he was so kind and genteel and he showed a great deal of 
consideration. He expressed great welcome, and I thought this is 
a great doctor and I am a student and he is so condescending. I felt 
very impressed anyway at the time and I began to like him very 
muclL So I suddenly became very trustful toward him. So he asked 
me to sit down in a very poor chair in the corner, and I began without 
reserve to tell him all my intentions, wishes, plans : about I like this 


idea of socialism ; I wanted to go to the Soviet Union but I couldn't 
and I don't know what to do — I think along this line, not exactly 
the wording, but then I began to trust him. I told him the whole 

Mr. NiTTLE. What did he say ? 

Mr. Huang. Other things I could not recall because it was so long 
ago, but one thing I recall clearly is that he suggested that I perhaps 
could get help from a lady writer named Smedley. 

Mr. Ni'rrLE. Agnes Smedley ? 

Mr. Huang. Agnes Smedley,^ that is correct. He said perhaps she 
could help you because she was General Chu Teh's friend. 

Mr, NiTTLE. To what specific place did you tell Dr. Blossom you 
wanted to go ? 

Mr. Huang. I wasn't clear, but to go back to China and eventually 
join the Communists. 

Mr. NiTTLE. You did not tell him that you wanted to go to the 
Soviet Union at that time ? 

Mr. Huang. I thought I also did. I think — I do not recall but I 
presimie everything, my intention, but I did not tell him directly what 
place I had to go because I didn't see the possibility, and he sug- 
gested his lady writer, Smedley, because she was General Chu Teh's 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did he tell you where she was at that time ? 

Mr. Huang. He didn't know. Then he tried to help me. I said 
how could I find out where this lady writer is, and he said, "Well, we 
will try to find out." He made some telephone calls, I think, but he 
couldn't locate where she is. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Do you recollect the place he called ? 

Mr Huang. No, he did not tell me and I did not hear. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did he telephone in your presence, or did he leave the 

Mr. Huang. Let's see. Some distance away or in the next room. I 
cannot recall very well. Then after he could not locate her and there 
was nothing to do, I became a little anxious. 

Mr. NiTTLE. I do not thinli we plac-ed the time when you went to 
see him. 

Mr. Huang. The end of 1948. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Toward the end of 1948. Very well. 

Mr. Huang. That way I remember because all this happened in a 
rather short period of time. I decided to go back to China. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Proceed. 

Mr. Huang. Then I became disturbed. So at this time I think I 
recall a strong notion came over me. I thought, well, perhaps there 
is nothing to do. I will have to go back to Kunming, where I came 
from, and there I should try to contact with the Communist area 
agents. They used to have them. 

Mr. NiTTLE. How long did you talk to Dr. Blossom that day? 

Mr. Huang. I should say about a half hour or so. 

1 Miss Smedley was affiliated with the Sorge Soviet espionage apparatus. She died In 
England in 1950, leaving her bank accounts and cash to her niece. Her will also stipulated 
that her body be crpinated and her ashes shipped to General Chu Teh. commander in chief 
of the Red Chinese Armv. to be laid to rest wherever he designated. She also bequeathed to 
General Chu U.S. Government bonds she held, royalties due from her published works and 
"anything else of value included in my estate." On the first anniversary of her death, 
her ashes were interred in the Cemetery of Revolutionaries, outside Peking. 


Mr, NiTTLE. What was the result of this first meeting with 
Blossom ? 

Mr. Huang. Only one meeting. 

Mr. NiTTLE, You had only one meeting with him ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. NiTTLE. And he tried to get in touch with Agnes Smedley and 
told you he could not. Did he make any other attempts to contact 
anyone, or did he suggest any other names to you of people to see? 

Mr. Huang. No, Let me think for a moment. Oh, yes, yes. It 
has been so long ago. But there was only one meeting. After this 
Smedley contact could not be reached, he suggested there was another 
place you probably could go to find information about going back to 
China to find the connection. He gave me the address of a place, 
publication. I remember the name now — ^Maud Russell ^ — in New 

Mr. JoHANSEN. A woman ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. The publication I also remember because when 
I got to New York they gave me, I remember, something like Commit- 
tee Democracy or something. "\Yliat kind of democracy ? Far East 
of something. They should have publications. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was it the Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern 
Policy ?' 

Mr. Huang. That sounds familiar, but I can't recall for sure. Any- 
way, this person I remember, this lady, and I can't recall the address, 
but it is in New York. So I went there by bus. My things were 
already packed. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did he make any arrangements for you to see her, by 
telephone or otherwise, in your presence ? 

Mr. Huang. No, he didn't. At the time I already had my luggage 
packed and I left them I think at the station, the railway station. 
So I was ready to go anywhere, to leave this country. Then he sug- 
gested this as a last resort. He suggested this Maud Russell. I went 
to New York. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Now you had your baggage with you ? 

Mr. Huang. No, not with me, but I remember I had my baggage 
left in the station. 

IMr. NiTTLE. You had already left the university ? 

Mr. Huang. I think I had. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Had you notified the authorities that you were leaving? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. All this I had already done. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did they ask you where you were going or why ? 

Mr. Huang. No. What authority? 

Mr. NiTTLE. At the university. 

Mr. Huang. At the university I didn't care because I pleaded ill 
health, and they had to let me go. 

Mr. NiTTLE, Did you tell Hsaio that you were leaving? 

Mr, Huang. No. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you tell your American friend ? 

1 Miss Russell, an active propagandist for the Chinese Communist cause since World 
War II. was identified as a member of the Crmimunist Party by Mrs. Anita Bell Schneider, 
an undercover informant for the FBI, in testimony before this committee on July 5, 1955. 

2 Cited as Communist by Attorney General Tom Clark on April 27, 1949. 


Mr. Huang. No. But he probably learned of my packing and ask- 
ing the school for withdrawal. I think probably he did but I am not 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you tell him you had seen Dr. Blossom ? 

Mr. Huang. Let me see. Maybe not. I do not recall. I do not 

Mv. NiTTLE. All right. Then you went doY\'n to see i\Iaud Russell ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. I went to New York to an office in a 
rickety place several flights up in a room, a large empty room, with 
some publications, prints, and papers of some kind in the office 
and a long desk.^ I remember the impression, and a lady was there, 
a rather tall lady. I do not recall her name any more. I asked for 
this lady Maud Kussell, but she told me she was not in New York. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Do you know the name of the lady to whom you talked ? 

Mr. Huang. No, I don't. It was a very brief few moments. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What else occurred at the office of Maud Russell? 

Mr. Huang. I don't know whether that is her office or not. It didn't 
look like an office to me. There weren't that many chairs, quite empty, 
a big room ; but nothing much happened. This lady told me she was 
not m New York and she said she probably is visiting Washington. 
So I said, "Well, I am coming here all the way from Washington to 
New York. Now she is in Washington. My trip would be in vain." 
She said, "I am sorry. She has been there for a few days already," or 

Mr. JoHANSEN. "She'' being Miss Russell ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, JSIiss Maud Russell — Miss or Mrs., I don't know, 
but this Maud Russell. This lady told me, this tall lady in the office 
or something told me, "Maud Russell is not in New York, she has 
been away in Washington for a couple of days." So I said, "Well, 
then, my trip has been in vain." 

She said, "Well, if it is anything important, you can go back to 
Washington and ask the person w^ho recommended you to come to see 
her for more information. He probably could locate her in Wash- 
ington, because she is in Washington." 

Mr. JoHANSEN. All right. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Plad you told her who had referred you to Maud 
Russell ? 

Mr. Huang. Perhaps I did, but I do not recall every detail; I recall 
the name. Perhaps I did, but I am not so sure. So I became disap- 
pointed again. I had given up. I said if he knew she was in Wash- 
ington, how could he send me up here because I think I went at night 
many hours on that bus, and I became very tired, too. So I had to 
come back right away because I didn't want to stay in New York too 
long. Let's see. I don't know whether the Wallace meeting was 
at that time or a different time. I don't recall. Perhaps it is a differ- 
ent time. 

Mr. NiTTLE. It was the election of November 1948? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, because I remember I was in New York attending 
a Wallace meeting in a very big place — an open place. Just before 
the election I went up there. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Very well. 

1 111 West 42d street. 
86095 — 62 i 


Did you attend the Wallace rally in New York with any other 
persons ? 

Mr. Huang. No, I went all by myself. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Now, at the address of Maud Eussell, the person in 
attendance at that office suggested you return to Washington 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. NiTTLE. — to see the person who sent you there? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. NriTLE. Did you then go back to Washington? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, I did. Of course, I had to come back here because 
there was nothing more for me to do in New York any more. So I 
came back and at first I thought, well, it's not any use. How could 
it be possible? If he knew she was in Washington, why should he 
send me all the way up to New York? I thought he wouldn't pos- 
sibly know where this Maud Eussell was at first. So again I rode 
the Greyhound bus; but wlien I came to Washington, I had time and 
there wasn't much to do. So later I thought I would go and try again 
if there was any help. That would be better than nothing. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you return to see Dr. Blossom? 

Mr. Huang. Not right away. That is my thought. When I re- 
turned to Washington, first I thought of not trying again because 
I thought it was impossible, it wasn't any use, but later I had nothing 
much to do during that time and when I came back to Washington, 
I thought it won't do any harm for me to try it again to see what hap- 
pened and attempt to find Maud Russell in New York. So I went to 
his office again. Dr. Blossom's office. When I went over to his office 
and I told him what happened, I was a little bit irritated but I didn't 
show it — I spend so many hours on the bus. But he was so kind and 
tried to help me. So I didn't show it. Anyhow, I told him about 
this trip and he said, "Is she really, did that lady really tell you that ? 
How could it be possible?" He said, "Now let me try to see if I 
can find her." He again, I believe, probably made some telephone 
calls and he told me, "I phone her. She was really actually in Wash- 
ington." So I think after a little time 

Mr. NiiTLE. Did he tell you where she was in Washington ? 

Mr. Huang. No, he didn't. I wasn't interested any more than 
that. I was interested in getting help from him. So after some 
time, I don't know how long but quite short, it wasn't such a long 
time before she came. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Into the office ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, that is right. So she came to this office and Dr. 
Blossom, of course, introduced us. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was she a young or an elderly woman ? 

Mr. Huang. Let me see, she gave the impression of full of energy. 
I mean she talked lively but she had white hair, you see. I don't 
really recall. But she seemed perhaps blond or something. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you form any impression of her age ? 

Mr. Huang. Not exactly. Maybe 50 or 60 because her hair was 
white or blond. I can't recall. Anyway she was also noisy, and I 
asked her 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did Blossom introduce you to her ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Wliat did he say when you were all brought together ? 


Mr. Huang. "This is Mr. Huiiiig, a student. He came to the United 
States from China but now lie wants to go back, but there is a civil 
war. He doosn't know where to go and he j^robably eventually wants 
to go to join the Connnunists," and that kind of thing. 1 do not 
recall the exact wording, but this is probably what happened. Any- 
wa}^ we didn't exchange ideas very much and she said, '"Well, you 
come from China and from Yuiman Province. I know your director. 
Lung Chang King." 

Mr. NiTTLE. Director of what ? 

Mr. HuAXG . He is the director of that Yunnan Provincial special 
class training for us to come to study in the United States. He w^as 
the director and he was also the one who accompanied us, sent us in 
person, to the United States. 

Mr. NiTTLE. And she, Maud IJussell, said she knew him? 

Mr. Huang. She said "Oh, that is interesting. You are one of his 
students." I said he dul not teach but he was the director. She said, 
"Oh, 1 knew him well," but he was in China already. This Mr. King 
was in China. She said, "T knew liim well; that is a very interesting 
coincidence," something like that. Then she said, "I am sorry. I 
couldn't help you very much because we don't have direct connections 
with the Communist movement guerrillas in northern China, or com- 
munication. We don't have the communication or connections." 

She apologized. Then I thought there is nothing to do, but she 
suggested hi Hong Kong there should be agencies or agents of that 
sort who have connections with the Communists. She said this is 
quite possible. There were many Communist — "democratic," I think 
she said — "democratic" movements. She didn't use the word "Com- 

Mr. NiTTLE. Well, the Communists, we understand, habitually use 
a reverse language. They refer to communism as "democracy" to con- 
fuse people and for its propaganda value. 

Mr. PIuang. She used the vcord that there were many "democratic" 
organizations in Hong Kong. "Why don't you go there and it is easy 
to find connections." I said, "But I don't know anybody in Hong 
Kong. I don't know anybody or any organization." 

She said, well, then, there is Hua Shang Pao^ the Chinese Commer- 
cial Daily in Hong Kong. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Are you referring to a newspaper ? 

Mr. Bruce. "WHiat was that name again ? 

Mr. Huang. Hua means China; Shang means merchants, commer- 
cial ; Pao means newspaper. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Could you spell that ? 

Mr. Huang. H-u-a\S-h-a-n-g P-a-o. This is my spelling. That is 
a Chinese newspaper. That is my translation of it. 

Mr. NiTTLE. That was a publication in Hong Kong ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right, a Chinese publication. 

She said, well, then, that paper certainly supports the Chinese "demo- 
cratic" movement. 

Mr. NiTTLE. She Avas probably choosing her lan.iruage very carefully. 

Mr. Huang. Well, these are the things. I think except in Scott 
Nearing's lectures, when he directly upheld socialism, the other people 
I contacted, I recall now, they more often used "democratic move- 
ments" and didn't say I am all for socialism or communism. They 
often say "democratic" or "democracy movement." 


Mr. NiTTLE. This, of course, has a propaganda, as well as security, 
value and is a part of Communist deceit. Proceed. 

Mr. Huang. So that wasn't very much help, because at the time I 
wasn't sure the nature of this newspaper or how much help it could 
give me, even if I located it. 

Well, I was just a student. I met Dr. Blossom the second time, 
the first day and the second. I came back from New York. She 
didn't know. She said she didn't know, she didn't have any con- 
nections but she suggested that newspaper. At first I thought there 
wasn't much help, but then I thought it was better than nothing. At 
least when I got to Hong Kong — — • 

Mr. NiTTLE. She apparently Inievv' more than she told you. She 
was giving you a clear line as to where you could get help, while pre- 
tending that she did not have any really certain knowledge. You 
were not quite getting the hint and you thought she was not helpful. 

Mr. Huang. I couldn't say whether she knew more about the news- 
paper but I took that chance. I thought, well, it is better than 
nothing, at least when I got to Hong Kong I had somewhere to go to. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did she give you the name of any particular person 
to see? 

Mr. Huang. No, but she just told me the name of the newspaper, no 
person. I didn't ask her for a personal introduction either. Perhaps 
I thought it was not proper to really ask, that asking more help was 
too much trouble, from other people. So let me see. I do not recall 
whether immediately that she couldn't do any more for me so I imme- 
diately went to leave the place. I recall perhaps she drove me out be- 
cause she had a car, I remember. Yes, I think so. I think so. Yes, 
she wanted to leave, too, I thinl^:. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did she ask whether you had sufficient financial re- 
soui'ces to get to Hong Kong? 

Mr. Huang. No, she didn't ask me anything about that. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did she ask you whether you needed help ? 

Mr. Huang. She didn't ask that. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did she suggest how to get to Hong Kong? 

Mr. Huang. No. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Or refer you to any particular travel agency ? 

Mr. Huang. No. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you ask her about any ? 

Mr. Huang. No, I didn't. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Tell us what happened next. 

Mr. Huang. Well, then I immediately didn't want to stay here be- 
cause I already had decided to leave the country, the States. So I 
bought a train ticket across the country to San Francisco. There I 
went aboard a ship, General Gordon. I think it was General Gordon. 

Mr. NiTTLE. "\Yliere did you get the money to pay for your travel ? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, this institute, China House. I think it is here 
somewhere. I came across it. The China Plouse, that is an organiza- 
tion. This Mr. King sent us to the United States in person and he 
let us in schools, but this China House in New York was then in 
charge of the students' studies and financial subsidies, and every 
month this China House sent us each a check, monthly allowance. 

Mr. NiTTLE. But you would need more than a monthly allowance 
to go to Hong Kong ? 


Mr. Huang. Sure. When I left (his country, naturally I had to 
correspond with them. I told them I was ill, I wanted to go back 
to China but that is not true, of course. 1 wanted to leave tlie country 
and I think tliey persuaded me to stay. Did they write me to ask 
me to stay or something? But I insisted anyway. 1 made it very 
clear that I wasn't going to continue with my studies, there wasn't any 
point in that. So they linally approved and sent me a letter and the 
passage fare, just enough to get to China. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did they ask you to what place you were going in 
Cliina ? 

Mr. Htjaxg. They asked me to go to Shanghai. 

Mr. NiTTLE. "What did you say { 

Mr. Huang. Well, I told them I wouldn't argue with them, of 
course, but I intentionally went to Hong Kong, of course. 

Mr. NiTTLE. They sent you money, not a ticket '\ 

Mr. Huang. Money, I think. 

Mr. NiTTLE. And you bought your own ticket ? 

Mr. Huang. I think so. I think probably San Francisco. The 
traffic wasn't very hea\-y, I think I bought the ticket in San Francisco. 
Just enough money I think. When I got to Hong Kong I became 
nearly desperate. I had only $25 or something. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you go to the Chinese C om^nercial Daily? On 
arrival at Hong Kong, did you go directly to the Chinese Commercial 

Mr. Huang. No, not directly. After I got a place to live, a day 
or two afterwards, maybe 2 days later, I forget. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Tell the committee about your experience on your 
visit to the office of the Chinese Commercial Daily. 

Mr. Huang. Yes. Wlien I got to Hong Kong, of course, in my 
circumstances at the time, I couldn't afi'ord to stay at a hotel, which 
was too expensive, so I lived in the YMCA. That is the cheapest 
place for me. In Hong Kong, I got there and got a room. 

After I put in my luggage and perhaps over night I rested and then 
I tried to find this place. I think I found it. Maud Eussell didn't 
even give me the address. Perhaps she didn't know. I vv-ent to the 
street and the newspaper stand and easily found a copy of this Chinese 
ComTnercial Daily and I think I got the address from that. Then, 
of course, it was easy to find the place. When I found the place, I 
wanted to see somebody who was officer of that newspaper or some- 
thing. I didn't know who to ask for, but then a man came out to see 
me after a little while. This person at the time of the first meeting re- 
ceived me rather coolly. At the beginning he asked me my intentions^ 
why did I want to see the newspaj^er, and I told him that I wanted to 
find the connections to go to Communist areas. That is right. I told 
him my intentions. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Who was this man you were talking to ? 

Mr. Huang. Fan Chien-ya. F-a-n C-h-i-e-n-y-a. I think that is 
the regular spelling. 

Mr. Bruce. What office did he hold on the newspaper? 

Mr. Huang. I wouldn't know. I didn't 

Mr. Bruce. Was he the first man you met at the office? 

Mr. Huang. I met nobody. 

Mr. Bruce. Was this a small office ? 


Mr. Huang. Small, but inside how big I don't know. It went up 
two stories and one door. Only one, a kind of big chair. 

Mr. Bruce. Was he alone m the room when you talked to him? 

Mr. Huang. No, he came out from the inside. 

Mr. Bruce. When you talked to him, did he talk to you alone ? 

Mr. Huang. Alone, yes. 

Mr. Bruce. And he was quite cold in the begmning ? 

Anyway, proceed. 

Mr. Huang. I am just trying to tell you the actual facts. 

Mr, JOILA.NSEN. Mr. Chairman, I move we take a 5-minute recess. 

Mr. Doyle. We will take a short recess. 

(Short recess) 

Mr. Doyle. All right, Counsel. 

Mr. NiTTLE. You were telling us about your visit at the offices of 
the Chinese Coimnerc'ial Dally and your conversations with Mr. Fan 
Chien-ya. Would you proceed ? 

Mr. Huang. He didn't say much. He just asked me why I wanted 
to see the newspaper office, and I told him my intentions of going to 
Communist China, if possible I wanted him to help me. 

He told me simply, ''It is possible but we don't have so many boats 
to go to guerrilla area in north China. So you have to wait. You 
come to see us every couple of weeks." 

I said, "Do I have to wait so long?" He said, "Well, there is 
nothing we can do unless you go by yourself. If you go back to 
Kunming and through south China, you can travel on your own." 

Many yomig people, he said, went to join the north Chinese "liber- 
ated areas'' — Did he use that terai? 

Mr. XiTTLE. What term ? 

Mr. Huang. "Liberated areas." I do not recall if he used that 

Mr. XiTTLE. It is quite likely that he did use it, because that is a 
common term in Communist semantics. 

jMr. Huang. Later it was very common, "liberated." 

Mr. XiTTLE. It is their reverse language. They speak of "liberated 
areas" as those which they have conquered and upon which they have 
committed aggression. It is "freeing'' an area, in their language. 


Mr. Huang. He told me, finally, if I didn't want to wait and wanted 
to go by myself, I had to go this way. But he said many young 
people went to the "liberated areas'' just by that way, just had to take 
the chance. 

Many of them eventually, students, even professors, got to the "lib- 
erated areas." He said, "If you are not patient, if you don't want to 
wait, you can do that, too: but if you want to wait, you come to see us 
every couple of weeks, and I will tell 3'ou whether we have a chartered 
boat to go or not." 

So I couldn't do anything else. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Did he ask you who had referred you to him or to that 

Mr. Huang. He didn't seem to be interested. He didn't ask me 
very much. 

Mr. XiTTLE. On that first occasion or in the course of any conversa- 
tion with him, then or later, did he ask who had sent you ? 


Mr. HuAXG. I am trying to recall did he ever ask me about that. 
No, I can't recall if he did. Even if he did, I can't recall that he asked 
that particular question. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Certain]}' you told him who had sent you there? 

Mr. Huang. I do not recall the conversation. Perhaps I did. 

JNIr. NiTrLE. He knew you had come from the United States? 

Mr. Huang. I told him my intentions. That I remember very well. 

Mr. NiTTLE. You told him you had come from the United States? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. NiTTLE. And that you had been referred there ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, I think I did. This last part, whether I men- 
tioned Maud Russell or not, I am not very clear, but he didn't seem 
to be very interested. I do not recall that he was curious, asking me 
my background and that. He wasn't. He gave the impression that 
he didn't care. So I waited a long time, month after month, several 

Mr. NiTTLE. In Hong Kong ? 

Mr. Huang. Each time I asked him what was the chance, he said, 
"No, sorry." 

Mr. NiTTLE. How were you managing to maintain yourself finan- 
cially during that time? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, I shall say this, too. So I had a little money when 
I got to Hong Kong and, of course, I lived very cheaply. Meals I 
paid very little. I spent little or no money on luxury or even films. 
So I lived very cheaply but I had so little money, I remember only 
$25 or $40 or something, not more. 

So I was naturally anxious to leave, but there wasn't any boat. So 
I became anxious how I was going to live on. So eventually, I 
couldn't do anything else. I tried to look for a temporary employ- 
ment. I asked the YMCA whether there was some sort of temporary 
employment but I didn't want long-time employment, but there was 
very little opportunity. So, eventually, yes, I sold some of my clothes. 
A camera, also, I sold, but those pawn shops didn't pay much, very, 
very little money for my clothes I bought here in the States. 

I thought, well, if the luxury things were not useful when you go 
to join the revolution, you cannot wear such nice Western clothes. So 
I wasn't particularly worried about the little money they gave me. 
So I sold it. 

Mr. NiTTLE. How often did you visit Fan in the meanwhile? 

Mr. Huang. Every 2 or 3 weeks, just as he said. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did he spend much time with you in those conver- 
sations ? 

Mr. Huang. No, each time very little. He just said, "Come back in 
another 2 weeks or 3, no boat." I mainly relied on myself in the begin- 
ning; my little money was spent for meals. So, I began to sell my 
clothes and my camera and even after that I didn't have anything more 
to sell. I brought back with me a few books and dictionaries but those 
things could not be sold. Nobody wanted them. 

So, I finally decided to write to Mr. King. He was back at the time, 
of course, in '48. 

Mr. Doyle. What books did you bring back ? 

Mr. Huang. Books of English, dictionaries, Webster, and that kind 
of thing. 


Mr. Doyle, Wliat other books ? 

Mr. Huang. A few text books. 

Mr. Doyle. What were they ? 

Mr. Huang. Mainly the others I left, but I remember I brought 
back with me the books I bought when I transferred to the Agricul- 
ture Department about raising leghorns and, I don't recall, cows. I 
thought that might be still useful. I thought they could learn to raise 

Mr. Doyle. But you had a book or two that were paperback books. 
Didn't you bring anything on Marxism ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, I brought some of it. 

Mr. Doyle. Wliat books on IMarxism ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, a few, about five or six I remember, booklets I 

Mr. Doyle. Those cheap books on Marx and socialism ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. Not very many. I didn't buy many be- 
cause they were expensive, but I remember I bought five or six book- 
lets at the "progressive" bookshop with Lenin's picture on it. 

Mr. Doyle. That is right. 

Mr. Huang. And some publication. I forgot the name. 

Mr. Doyle. You had already read those, though. You knew those. 
You knew everything in them ? You had read them ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, I did. But I didn't understand them very much. 

Mr. Doyle. But you didn't want to lose them ? 

Mr. Huang. No, I didn't. I wanted to bring them with me. 

Mr. Doyle. That is right. 

Mr. Huang. And also some publications by that Scott Nearing. 

Mr. Bruce. Did you say that you called IMr. King ? 

Mr. Huang. No, I didn't call. I wrote to him. Tlien I wrote him a 
letter telling him my situation in Hong Kong. I said I wanted to come 
back to China but 1 didn't tell him where Iwanted to go. I couldn't, 
naturally, at the time. 

I said, "Now, I am in Hong Kong, I have no more financial support. 
Could you help me ?" And then he sent me 400 Hong Kong dollars. 
So that was quite enough for a couple of months. I lived very 
cheaply, one Hong Kong dollar a meal, I remember. Opposite the 
YMCA was a small restaurant. I often ate there. 

So, on that money I was able to live until the departure in May, 
I believe, May or April, for north China. 

Mr. Nittle. Of 1949? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, '49. That is right. 1949, May of 1949. At the 
time I was told there was a boat. 

Mr. Nittle. Did Fan contact you ? 

Mr. Huang. No, I contacted him always. He wouldn't bother 
about it. "In a few days, a certain day, there would be a boat but 
we want everybody who is able to go by this boat to pay his own 
fare, everybody, only those who are really helpless we perhaps can 
assist," and he asked me. I said, "I have no money but I have a radio. 
I have a large five-tube radio I bought in the United States. If it 
can be sold, that can bring me some money for the passage," and he 
said, "Why don't you try it?" 

I said, "All right." So, I sold that radio in a radio shop. I got, 
I remember, 300 Plong Kong dollars. That was the amount, enough 
for the passage in the boat. So, I paid for the ticket with that. 


Then I left on that certain date, in May or June. I have forgotten. 
Probably May, most likely. 

Then, of course, the trip on the boat 

Mr. Nin-LE. From whom did you buy the ticket, or was the ticket 
furnished by Fan? 

Mr. HuANCx. I think the ticket was given me by Fan. 

Mr. XiTTLE. AAHuit vessel was this, a Chinese or vessel of some 
other nationality ? 

Mr. Huang. No, I think Chinese because on the boat I remember 
some Chinese words, but what words ? 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was this a steamer, a modern vessel, a large one? 

Mr. Huang. No, it was a small boat, waving all the time. Very 
small. Many people got sick. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What flag was borne by the boat ? 

Mr. Huang. It was certainly not the Chinese flag, maybe a Hong 
Kong flag. I don't recall. Maybe no flag at all. I don't recall what 

Mr. NiTFLE. Who operated the boat, the Chinese or another 

Mr. Huang. I do not remember. I don't remember I saw any 
foreigners there. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you come in contact with the captain of the boat? 

Mr. Huang. No. I think very few traveled in the top class. They 
had first class, a very small thing, only a few perhaps. I don't know 
who they were, maybe just the captain. I saw him perhaps on the 
top place with his white uniform. All of us traveled in the same 
class. There were old men, Chinese. 

]Mr. NiTTLE. Were there any Americans with you ? 

Mr. Huang. I do not recall any Americans or foreigners, either. 
All Chinese, I think, but a lot of people, I still recall, on that trip. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Where did you get oif the boat ? 

Mr. Huang. Tientsin. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was that in an area occupied by the Chinese Reds ? 

Mr. Huang. Of course, at the time, naturally. I do not remem- 
ber when they occupied that city. But that was the port we dis- 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you receive any instructions from Fan as to what 
you were to do when you arrived at Tientsin ? 

Mr. Huang. No, nothing at all. He didn't give us any instruc- 
tions, just on the date when we went aboard we were handed over the 
ticket and that is all. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Tell us what happened on your arrival. 

Mr. Huang. On our arrival in Tientsin, we were received very 
well and, for the first time, I heard people mention these are de- 
mocratic personalities, or something, the whole gi'oup on the boat. 

In Tientsin we were referred to as "democratic elements" or "democ- 
ratic personalities,'' those who want to come to the "liberated areas" to 
support them ; that is what they meant, I think. 

We were received very well, were put up at some of the best hotels, 
and they gave very good meals but w'e didn't stay very long in Tient- 
sin. After a couple of days, I think, after a bit of sightseeing and 
rest, w^e proceeded by train to Peking. Yes, only a few days. We 
proceeded by train. 

86095—62 5 


Mr. NiTTLE. Did they tell you why they were sending you to 
Peiping ? 

Mr. Huang. No, they didn't, but that is the place probably we all 
wanted to go because that was the political center. 

At the time it was called Peiping, I think, Peking rather. 

"Wlien they used it as the national capital they changed it into 
Peking. At the time, I remember, probably it was called Peiping. 
I think so. 

At the time they didn't have a cabinet. They didn't set up the 
government formally, I mean. So, when we arrived in Peking, we 
were received very well, too. In Tientsin, we all stayed in the same 
hotel but in Peking, we more or less were separate. 

Mr. NiTTLE. "What was your group composed of ? 

Mr. Huang. All kinds of people, I suppose, Chinese, ladies, gentle- 
men, men and women, but I knew some educationalists, movie stars, 
painters. I remember a few. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What movie star are you referring to ? 

Mr. Huang. A lady named Shu Hsiu-wen. 

Mr. NiTTLE. A Chinese movie star ? 

Mr. Huang. I remember her because she entertained us on the ship. 
She acted a little, cracked some jokes. So, I remember her. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you know her then as a movie star ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, everybody knew her. Not before, but on the 
boat when she was invited to act, of course, immediately everybody 
knew it. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What happened when you arrived at Peking? Did 
they segregate you as to groups ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, in Peking because in Tientsin probably it was 
just a transit stay. 

Mr. NiTTLE. At Peking, I mean to say, did they keep you educa- 
tors together ? 

Mr. Huang. No, no. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Then what happened ? 

Mr. Huang. We were entertained. We were well looked at. We 
were given uniforms. They measured us ; take our measurements and 
had a kind of Chinese uniform made. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Were they military uniforms ? 

Mr. Huang. No, they were not military. They were civilian. 

That was supposed to be a sort of — I don't know how to put it — be- 
cause we didn't have any money — nobody had any Chinese money — 
everything was free. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was this an official dress for all the people in the oc- 
cupied area ? 

Mr. Huang. No, not everybody. I mean new clothes. The civil- 
ians had their own old clothes. I mean we were particularly given 
some because some of us wore Western clothes only. Some wore long 
gowns that old-fashioned Chinese wear. 

We were given something new, a simple uniform, and we were given 
pocket money. We were looked after by some officials. We were 
entertained with plays, films, and operas and that kind of thing. We 
were treated to feasts and taken out sightseeing at different spots. We 
just lived around there for quite a while. 


Ml". NiTTLE. Were these people on the boat who were returned and 
served in this fashion Chinese people who had emio^rated from other 
countries? Were they Chinese who had been abroad and were at- 
tempting to get back into Hed China ? 

Mr. Huang. Probably there were a few, but as I recall mostly they 
were just Chinese. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Hong Kong people ? 

]Mr. HuAXG. Yes, Hong Kong people, because I remember the others 
but I don't know when and how they got there, like the educationalist. 
Yesterday I remember he had his name, Lin Li-tau. This is an old 
man, a very well-known Chinese educationalist, but when did he go 
to Hong Kong to return at this time, I wouldn't know, this kind of 
thing, and this movie star — why did she go to Hong Kong ? 

Mr. NiTTLE. Then it appears as though you were being given special 
treatment for some special reason. It occurred to me that this was a 
sort of "welcome home'' afl'air. 

Mr. Huang. Something like that, perhaps, but whether there were 
any British Chinese or American Chinese, I was not aware. 

Sir. KrrPLE. This period of festivity continued how long at Peking? 

Mr. Huang. Quite a long time. Let me see exactly. I think a 
month or more, but I was one among the first who wanted to leave. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Were you not employed in some way ? 

Mr. Huang. No. I became anxious. I said, "I came back to work 
to do something, some useful work for the people, for the revolution. 
But why we are staying here all the time ? " 

I became restless. Then I was told, "Don't be impatient. You have 
been abroad for so long. It takes a little time for you to get reac- 
quainted with the country and to readjust yourself." 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did they photograph you and your group ? 

Mr. Huang. No, no. If they wanted to, they could, but they never 
did. I became restless and impatient and asked them, and this is what 
I was told: "You need a little rest. Get reacquainted and readjust 
yourself to this." So I waited. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Proceed. 

Mr. Huang. Then we were entertained for so long that I became 
restless and asked for some sort of job; and the other people I do not 
recall acted the way I did, but many of them were older, most of them 
were older, besides the children, older than myself. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did they have you meet during this period in groups, 
and were you told some of the history of the revolution and its 
purpose ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. NiTi'LE. You had what one may call "study meetings"? 

]Mr. Huang. No, not study. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Indoctrination meetings ? 

Mr. Huang. You might call it indoctrination. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Lectures ? 

Mr. Huang. Not study. They didn't give us anything to read, 
and during the entertainment there was always some official made 
some reports. They call the officials come to make reports and long 
ones, too, but we didn't understand very much. 

Mr. NiTTLE. When you speak of "long ones," did they daily talk 
to you and lecture to you ? Did they require you each day to attend 
some kind of meeting or conference or lecture? 


Mr. Huang. No, mainly entertainment and rest during the whole 
period. Before I was sent, as I shall tell you later, to the university, 
I stayed in the liotel. Mainly it was rest and some people played 
chess and we visited different spots, but we heard, I remember, onl}- 
twice, lectures, but each time it was quite long. 

Mr. Bruce. Were you asked to participate in these discussions ? 

Mr. Huang. No discussion, just listened. 

Mr. Bruce. You just listened ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, twice. One I remember because it was very 
strange, to me at least. First there was a lecture, a report. They 
call it a report. To us Liu Shao-ch'i, the present President. At the 
time he was not the President. I did not know what he was. He 
was not known to me even. We were invited to that big hotel, maybe 
Plotel Peking, or something; I don't remember the name. Anyway, 
Ave were transported there bv a big bus and we were taken there and 
we were invited into a room and Liu Shao-ch'i, the present Presi- 
dent, came and somebody introduced him. They didn't even say what 
title he had, so I didn't know him, and he began to talk about the new 
"democratic"' government and the economy of New China. I think 
that is what it was. He spoke with a very strong Hunan central 
China dialect. 

Mr. NiTTLE. He never used the word "Communist" China. He used 
the word "democratic" China ? 

Mr. Huang. They didn't occupy the whole country then, so they 
didn't use "Communist." Communist actually came much later. 
During the past few years they were trying to establish even social- 
ism, which is a much earlier stage. So I think at the time the joint 
economic^ — or what was the term i Oh, "coalition government." 

Mr. Bruce. Coalition ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, they used that. They did not use "communism" 
or even "socialism." 

So, he gave, I think, the lecture about this coalition government. 

Mr. Bruce. Favorable to the coalition government ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. He wouldn't say anything against it 
because that is what they tried to establish at the beginnmg. Later 
it was, of course, changed. 

I only understood him so much. He talked about the economy. 
But first he spoke with a strong central China Hunan dialect, which 
I observed, because I looked around and most of us didn't understand 
very well. Some people just became so tired. 

Mr. NiTTLE. How long did the lecture last? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, a long time, 5 hours I think. 

Mr. NiTTLE. And this one individual talked for 5 consecutive hours ? 

Mr. Huang. Perhaps. I think there was no recess. 

What surprised me was how could ever a man speak for so long. 
Never in my life I never heard a lecture or report or anything which 
lasted for such a long time as this report. And besides we didn't 
understand him much. That was the pity. He spoke with this Hunan 
dialect, and we didn't understand. I personally didn't understand 
even one thing. 

Therefore, it was not a veiy attractive speech because, even if we 
understand the words, the meaning was usually obscure. 


Mr. N1117.E. "\'()u hud lectures during this period of approximately 
a month when you were doino; nothing and you were entertained. 
Did they use entertainment foi- indoctrimition niul ])r()j)aganda 

^Ir. Huang. I should say so, because I remember a few plays they 
put on. Those plays were like everything they do in China, as re- 
lated to polities. They would not do anything pure, I mean unrelated 
to ])olitics. Everything serves a purpose. 

^Ir. JoiiAXSEN. There was no entertainment for entertainment's 

Mr. Huang. No, that is clearly criticized and opposed. So, their 
entertainment was depiction. I remember a little play they put on in 
a hall. We were seated around and watched how the peasants suf- 
fered during the feudalist rule; then how the guerrillas came to help 
them, liberate them in the liberated area and they became a good life. 
I remember that. 

So everything they do or did was related to that purpose. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What happened after this period of reception? 

Mr. Huang. Then I became restless and asked a couple of times. 
I said, "I am a young man. I don't like to stay here just to be enter- 
tained all the time." So then an official — of course, I don't know who 
is a Communist and who was not, but I presumed he must be a Com- 
munist official — he talked to me and said, "All right. You can go. 
We will send you to a university." 

During this time, I heard a little about this university. They sent 
me to this North China University of the Peoples Revolution. That 
is my translation. T don't know how they called it in English, but 
it is North China University of the Peoples Revolution, something 
like that. So I went there with curiosity and interest because I heard 
a little about this university before I was sent there. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Where had you heard this? 

Mr. Huang. Well a lot of people mentioned it. People mentioned 
that there was such a university. So when this was suggested to me 
I said, "^"\liy, it is better than just staying at the hotel," and I was 
curious. I would like to see how they conducted this university 

Mr. NiTTLE. AVhat was your understanding of the type of univer- 
sity this was supposed to be ? 

Mr. Huang. It was very clear even by the name. Peoples Revolution, 
that they would teach you things relating to Marxism-Leninism and 
socialism and communism and revolution. So that was my general 
idea of the university. 

Mr. NiTTLE. This' was a school where you were to be re-educated as 
a Commimist ? 

Mr. Huang. That is the term they use, "re-educate" you, yes. We 
read just their publications. They didn't use the term "indoctrinate." 

]\rr. NiTTLE. Of course T used the term "re-educate" (piitc accident- 
ally, not being aware that they were so frank about it there. 

Mr. Huang. They use like I read recently about "brainwashing" 
and that kind of thing. They never used that. 

So, when I first said it, I didn't know what it meant or what is the 
exact implication of that. They use "re-education,'' "thought re- 


So this was for that purpose obviously, for thought reform, re- 
education, of course, later then to change your views that you had 
about the old and they wanted to give you the new. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Were you the only one of your group sent over at this 

Mr. Huang. I think so. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Were you one of the first to be put to some employ- 
ment ? 

Mr. Huang. I think I was. 

Mr. JoHANSEN, May I interrupt at this point. There was a phrase, 
they wanted to rid you of "the old" and give you "the new." 

Would you just comment a little further on that ? 

What sort of "the old" — ideas about capitalism or loyalty to the 
"old regime" or what do you mean ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, everything. At first it was very general, every- 
thing you learned you lived, you experienced. The things you lived 
under the former regime, the former society, they called "old society." 
This term they used, "old society" and "new society." Everything 
you liA-ed through. 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. They wanted to wash your mind of that. 

Mr. Huang. That is right. They wanted to change your views 
toward those things and they wanted to establish new things in your 
mind, that is the communism views. 

Mr. Bruce. Part of this was getting you to participate, too, and 

Mr. Huang. Yes, many things. 

Mr. Bruce. Constantly stand up and express your thoughts on 
where you were weak. 

Mr. Huang. That is right, always. 

Mr. Johansen. Self-criticism, and so on. 

Mr. Huang. That is right. Criticism, self-criticism, and mainly 
this is the process, but of course you read some documents, not very 
many. They didn't have very much literature; listened to reports; 
that kind of thing. 

So the whole school was just like that. 

Mr. Doyle. Let us recess until 9 :30 tomorrow morning. 

Witness, will you be here then ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

(Thereupon, at 4 o'clock, Thursday, May 24, 1962, the committee 
was recessed, to reconvene at 9 :30 a.m., Friday, May 25, 1962.) 


(Testimony of Clii-Chou Huang) 

FRIDAY, MAY 25, 1962 

Unused States House of Representatives, 

Committee of Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D.C. 

EXECUTIVE session ^ 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to recess, 
at 10 a.m., in Room 226, Old House Office Building, Washington, 
D.C, Hon. Clyde Doyle, presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Clyde Doyle, of Cali- 
fornia, and August E. Johansen, of Michigan. 

Staff members present : Alfred M. Nittle, counsel ; Jolin C. Walsh, 
co-counsel ; and Donald T. Appell, investigator. 

Mr. Doyle. Let the record show the committee reconvened, with 
Messrs. Johansen and Doyle present. 

Will you proceed, Counsel ? 

Mr. Nittle. Yes, sir. 


Mr. NiTixE. At the time we adjourned yesterday, you were telling 
us about your assignment to the North China University of the 
Peoples Revolution. 

Will you tell us what your experience was there? 

Mr. Huancx. Well, to put it briefly, in that university, the students 
went through what they call a re-education, thought reform, or 
thought remolding. They used sometimes different terms, but what 
actually happened was that at the university, through several dis- 
tinct but quite coordinated processes, the students were expected to, 
as thev say, establish a new world outlook — this probably is quite 
well known in the West, or all over the world— establish a new vie^y, 
outlook of the world, that is, a Marxist-Leninist view, or sometimes 
they say a materialistic, dialectical view of the world. 

But, of course, at the beginning, I should say the majority, includ- 
ing myself, did not know what those terms actually meant and what 
the process was. 

Mr. Nittle. Was this university newly established by tlio Com- 
munist dictatorship, or had it been in existence prior to the revolution ? 

Mr. Huang. According to my understanding— of course, I did not 
know the past history in that time— but I presume it was established 
bv the Communist government. 

1 Released bv the committee and ordered to be printed. 



INIr. NiTTLE. With respect to the facilities there, was it a tradi- 
tional university that was taken over by the Communists? 

Mr. HuAXG. Xo, I do not think there had been formerly such a type 
of university in existence. I mean this probably started, most likely, 
I should say, was started when the Communists took power. 

Mr. NiTTLE. I see, this was a newly created university ? 

Mr. HuAXG. That is right, I think it was. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Now do you refer to the buildings being newly dedi- 
cated to this purpose? 

Mr. HuAXG. Xo, not new buildings, they were old, old buildings. It 
didn't look like a university. I mean, just a lot of two-story houses, 
looked more like a barracks. 

Mr. XiTTLE. How many students were enrolled there at the time you 
arrived ? 

Mr. HuAXG. Let me see. There were 20 classes altogether, with each 
class from 120 to 150, something like that, and so 

Mr. XiTTLE. Did this include students, both male and female ? 

Mr. HuAXG. That is right. 

]\Ir. XiTTLE. What was the proportion of the female students to the 
male? And would you describe also the age range of the students 
attending ? 

Mr. Ht7Axg. "Well, from 16 or so up to my age. I was among the 
older group. I should think, about 27, not beyond 30; 26, 27. "IVnd 
the proportion, I think, let us see, according to my class — of course, I 
do not know of all the other classes — probably perhaps one-fifth to 
one-sixth were women. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Xow you were going to describe in more detail the 
course of instruction received, ^y\mt subjects did you study? 

Mr. HuAXG. Well mainly, as the term indicates, it was for thought 
remolding. Xo other science, I mean, natural sciences and all, just 
political science. 

Mr. XiTTLE. And how was this instruction conducted? 

ISIr. HuAXG, There were different forms, mass lecture where all the 
students — ^the whole student body — listened to one lecture through the 
microphone. That is one type!^ And what they called self-study, 
that is, reading of the few documents they were able to produce and 
then smaller group lectures — not lectures — well, you can say there 
were lectures, too, but that was not important. I mean individual 
classes met and listened to the director relay reports from the higher 
authorities, or something of that sort. 

But most of the time, the process was small group discussions, criti- 
cism, and self-criticism. Most of the time, it was like that. I remem- 
ber they emphasized this self-education. That is, they wanted mutual 
education. Each one would help the other to analyze the problems 
and mutually draw acceptable conclusions. That took most of the 
time. Once or twice a week there were lectures but sometimes when 
the lecturers were busy, perhaps, there would be no lectures for 2 
weeks. So most of the time was spent in small groups. 

Each class, I think — probably it is true of the other classes — the 
class I belonged to was divided into eight sections, so each section had 
about 18, 19. 20 students in one section.' 

So most of the time, the activities were conducted in the small group. 
We lived closely together; we ate together. The girls, of course, lived 


in their own separate sections, but just for sleep. During the day, the 
five or six girls in each section came to join the men's classroom. It 
served as a classroom as well as a dormitory. 

Mr. XiTiLK. Were you given any instruction on the subject of revo- 
lutionary purpose relating to world policy of the Communist move- 
ment ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, it went on from the simplest matters to more 
abstract, more complicated. In that university, as the i)resident of the 
time emphasized in his introduction to us, to remember something 
like this is only to give you a basic understanding of our revolution. 
They could not have hoped to accomplish so much, I mean, the change 
of one's thought, in such a short period of time, half a year or so; but 
it did touch, of course, some aspects about the final goal. But most 
of the time, it was the purpose of the school to help these youth, these 
young people, compare their old ways of thinking and the new ways 
of thinking and to try to replace in their own minds the old by the 

Mr. JoHANSEN. How was the ultimate goal defined, described ? 

Mr. HuAXG. The ultimate goal was not very clearly emphasized 
during that time, but later, through the years, more and more. For 
instance, in my case, the whole final goal of the Communist movement 
was quite abstract. I mean, so far away, beyond reality. So we did 
not understand very much. But immediate problems, each individ- 
ual's personal experiences, their former life and experiences, were the 
focal points of comparison, study, discussion, criticism. They did go 
into some — I remember there was one lecture devoted to, for instance, 
the development of human society. 

But tliat was very sketchy. In that lecture, it discussed the de- 
velopment of human history, human society, from primitive com- 
munism, they called it, to slave society and to feudalist society and then 
to capitalist society and, finally, I think, through socialism to Com- 
munist society. 

That was one of the more abstract courses. But most of the time 
was devoted on each individual's concrete personal experiences, past 
and present and future. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What "old" thinking were they trying to suppress or 
dissipate within the young people? 

Mr. Huang. Well, they called re-education or replacement — that 
is my own tenn, "replacement" — but they used the word "remold," 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did they discuss the old ways and virtues of the Chi- 
nese people in contrast with what they expected you to accept now in 
this "new" state of society ? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, the contrast was constantly made. That is one of 
the most important things. We also made the contrast. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Now can you be more specific ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, sir. They used this term, these two terms very, 
very frequently ; it is always on the tip of the tongue, old and new, old 
society, new society, by wiiich of course they meant before the Chinese 
Communists took power and the trying to establish a Communist 
society — or at the time, it was still ''people's democratic" society. 

They didn't even go veiy far, because socialism was still quite dis- 
tant. They used this term — perhaps it was more acceptable to the 


people — and they contrast this, new ways, new virtues, that is, equal- 
ity — they said freedom — and mainly this human relationship, with 
how the individuals lived in the former societies, of course including 
the past. 

China never really had a capitalist society as we generally under- 
stand it in the West. There were not very many, really, people who 
are so rich. The majority of them were really very poor. There was 
no comparison, but they did compare to the feudalist society. Well, 
those were, again, quite distant days, so they compared the new order 
mainly with the old society under the rule of Kuomintang, of the 
Nationalist Government, and they always brought up this past human 
relationship, claiming corruption, the oppression of man by man, ex- 
ploitation of man by man, greed, and that kind of thing. 

And this they proclaimed they were to do away with completely in 
the Communist society. But that was at the beginning of the Com- 
munist rule. Nobody really had experienced much at the beginning, 
and they compared what they called new ideas with the reality of the 

Mr. NiTTLE. You had occasion to live, then, in revolutionary China 
from early 1949 until 1961, at which time you defected. Did you, in 
fact, find that the Communists had introduced equality amongst the 
people, and did you find that they had, in fact, eliminated corrup- 
tion in their government ? 

Mr. Huang. My personal experience is, of course, limited, but I can 
say this : 

They did, during the past 10 years, make some changes, like the cor- 
ruption. I think they emphasized it very greatly and really did a 
tremendous job along this line. I participated in this anti-corruption 
movement that they tried, and even some of their higher ranking 
Communist officials were shot — even in the first, and San Fan, the 
Three Anti's, publicly tried and shot, too. 

I mean, according to what I personally experienced, they tried to do 
away with corruption and were quite successful. 

Mr, NiTTLE. Did the Communist statements that were given you on 
the subject of corruption, attribute corruption to what they called 
"capitalist" society ? 

Mr. Huang. Tliey called this selfishness. 

Mr. NiTTLE. As a manifestation of "capitalist'' society? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. NiTTLE. But, of course, non-Commiuiist society also abhors 
corruption, and there is instruction in the churches, schools, imiversi- 
ties, and in public life against corruption. This is not new to the 
Communist society. Is that right ? 

Mr. Huang. I think so, because many virtues started thousands 
of years ago. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Corruption is not considered a virtue in non-Commu- 
nist society, is it? 

Mr. Huang. No, I should not think so. Every government is trying 
to fight against immorality. 

^ Mr. NiTTLE. I understand you to indicate tliat the Communist so- 
ciety was implanting in your mind the notion that there would be no 
corruption in a Communist society? 

Mr. Hr ANG, That is what it was. 



Mr. NiTixE. Did you, in fact, lind tliat they had obliterated cor- 
ruption ? 

Mr. Huang. No, by far. 

Mr. NiTTi.E. Now point number two: The true concept of the 
equality of men in their fundamental rights is likewise considered a 
virtue in non-Communist society, and particularly so in the United 
States. Isn't that preached here ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. Well, it is in your Constitution, yes. 

Mr. NiTTLE. So this is not a concept that is new to the Commimists? 

Mr. Huang. No, it is not. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you, in fact, find that the Communists achieved 
equality of man ? 

Mr. Huang. I don't think so, not so far. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Now, would you proceed with your experiences at the 
university ? 

Mr. Huang. At the university, that is a way of things they tried to 
contrast, that was at the beginning of their power. Those were only 
ideas, but the people like myself, too, had to wait and see and hear 
and experience later how^ much really they accomplished. At the 
beginning, those were the contrasts. 

Mr. DoYLE. May I ask this question? What college books, what 
textbooks, what papers, what documents did you college students have 
to study ? If you had any ? 

Mr. Huang. You mean in that particular university I attended ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Huang. Only Conununist publications, nothing else. 

Mr. Doyle. Did they give you some to take home to read and 
study ? 

Mr. Huang. No, everybody lived in the university in the dormi- 
tory, no home. 

]Mr. Doyle. You ate there ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. You lived there 24 hours a day ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, 24 hours a day, and at weekends you can go 
home, of course. 

Mr. Doyle. Did they mention the United States in those classes, 
or the free world ? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Doyle. In what way? 

Mr. Huang. Of course, hostile attitude. 

Mr. Doyle. What? 

Mr. Huang. Hostile attitude. From the beginning. 

Mr. Doyle. What did they tell you about the United States ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, the United States at the beginning, I remember, 
was mentioned, of course, was the leading country — what did they 
say ? — the head of the 

Mr. Doyle. Free world ? 

Mr. Huang. We called it the capitalist country. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Did they use the word "imperialist" in relation 
to the United States ? 


Mr. Huang. Oh, yes, more and more. At the beginning, it was 
not very much ; but at the Korean war and afterwards, then the term 
•'imperialist"' was constantly used. Always. 

Mr. Doyle. Xow please tell us what they said about the United 

Mr. Huang. Well, mainly, they said the society, American society, 
was based on capitalism, which they explained to the students was a 
form of exploitation of man by man, so they said in the United 
States the people were going to two extremes : the rich became richer, 
the poor people were becoming poorer and poorer. 

Mr. NiTTLE. That was what Karl Marx claimed. 

Mr. Huang. That is right, all their education was based on Marx- 
ist relatedness. Xaturally, they would use that kind of argument. 

Mr. Doyle. Is that all they said ? 

Mr. Huang. More or less along this line. Therefore, if a socialist 
society in which no exploitation of man by man were to be established, 
then, of course, it was in contradiction with the capitalistic society. 
A contradiction between a capitalistic society and a socialist society. 

Mr. XiTTLE. How did they explain away the exploitation of people 
by the Communist dictatorship ? 

Mr. Huang. How do I explain ? 

Mr. NiTTLE. How did they justify that to you ? 

Mr. Huang. No, they did not say anything. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. They would not admit that ? 

Mr. Huang. No. No, there would be no exploitation. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask this one further question : What, if any- 
thing, did they teach you about the necessity of revolution? Did 
they teach vou that there would ever be a revolution in the United 

Mr. Huang. Oh, sure. 

Mr. Doyle. What did they say about it? 

Mr. Huang. All this education they called thought remolding never 
stopped, so all these years, repeatedly saying the same thing, that is, 
the final victory of socialism all over the world, that is what they 
believed — the final collapse of capitalist society. And that included 
the United States, they said. 

Mr. Doyle. Did they teach you that there would be a violent contest 
between capitalism and communism ? 

Mr. Huang. Not at that time. 

Mr. Doyle. Of force and violence ? 

Mr. Huang. Not at that time, yet, 

Mr. Doyle. Well, at any time? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, of course, then, in the end, about the time I was 
teaching in Iraq, then I heard more about this — I think, at the time 
of the Soviet Communist Party Congress, 22d, or 20 what, 23d? 
I have forgotten. 

Mr. Appell. Twenty-first. 

Mr. Huang. Twenty-first. At the time, this problem was more 
emphasized and discussed, how to look at the world, analyze the world 
situation. And I participated in meetings in Baghdad among the 
Chinese living there. Some were embassy officials. Some were em- 
ployees; some, like me, were just Chinese who were employed by the 
Iraqi (Tovernment to teach Chinese there. 


And at this time, I became more aware of these differences between 
the Soviet Union and the Chinese Communist ideolooy; and so far 
as I can recall, my understanding was that the Soviet Union empha- 
sized or stressed that the outcome of the world, the chan<rin«^ of the 
world, was inevitably final victory for socialism and communism; but 
then their stress was that it had to be developed alonp: that line by 
peaceful competition, "peaceful coexistence," they said, because the 
terrible destructive power of the present stage was impossible to 

I mean, they said if there were to be a world conflict between the 
capitalistic societies, as they are called, and the Communist societies — 
no, socialist societies; they didn't say Communist and they used the 
word "camp" — they said between capitalistic camp and socialist 
camp — it would be a destruction of both. There would be no socialism, 
although they believed there would be no capitalism, but there would 
be no socialism eitlier; so the Soviet argument, as I understand, 
stressed the means of development. Therefore, it seemed to me it was 
not a revolution, rather a sort of evolution that is meant. 

But the Chinese Communist leadership stressed, they did not 
strongly argue against this aspect of "peaceful coexistence,"' but they 
stressed — this I know quite clearly, because at several, at least two 
meetings, this question was discussed, and I remember the Communist 
secretaries emphasized this — the possibility of the direct conflict be- 
tween what they called the socialist camp and the capitalist camp. 

Mr. Doyle. By direct conflict, they meant force and violence ? 

Mr. HuAXG. Xaturally. 

]Mr. Doyle. And armed conflict? 

Mr. HuAXG. Armed conflict. 

Mr. Doyle. And was that at Iraq, in Baghdad ? 

]Mr. HuAXG. Yes, in Iraq. Before that, that was not. Only hostile, 
of course, toward the "West. 

Mr. Doyle. ^Miat year was that? 

Mr. HuAxG. '60, I thmk. About 1960. 

Mr. Doyle. You were teaching there? 

Mr. HuAXG. Yes. I was teacher at the Baghdad University. 

Mr. Doyle. And how many students did you teacli ? 

Mr. HuAXG. About altogether, let me see, at the beginning, there 
were more — at the end, about 40 ; about 40 students at the time. 

Mr. XiTTLE. During the course of instruction at the university you 
were attending, were you permitted to express views contrary to those 
given you by your instructoi-s ? Were you permitted to discuss 
mattei-s and dissent ? 

Mr. HuAXG. Oh, we are going back to China in 1950 ? 

Mr. XiTTLE. Yes. 

Mr. Huang. Yes, my personal experience is this. Perhaps it is bet- 
ter for me to sum up a little bit. 

In the past 10 years or so, living in Communist China, at the begin- 
ning, there was more, much more freedom. Gradually, I felt, and I 
observed, too, gradually the freedom, the personal liberty was less and 
less, with more and more regimentation. The whole process was like 
that. Therefore, at the beginning of the university, there were these 
free discussions to a certain extent. Of course, openly the Kuomintang 
was the central, of course, the center of hostility and denunciation. 


The United States and the capitalists were abstract, and more or less 
mentioned, but Kuomintang was very concrete. The Chinese Govern- 
ment, that was the central point of discussion. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What did they expect to do with the students at this 
university after graduation ? 

Mr. Huang. As I already said at the beginning, the president told 
us the aim of the university was to give the students a beginning of 
education, or a first stage of education. To give you some foundation. 
To change. 

Mr. NiTTLE. How long was this course to last ? 

Mr. Huang. Five or 6 months. I went there a little late. Wlien 
I got there, it was going on already. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Wlien you completed the course of instruction, did you 
receive a degree of some sort, a document evidencing your attendance 

Mr. Huang. I did not. They did not practice this system. Nobody 
has any degrees. Those who had degrees were old professors who re- 
ceived their degrees from abroad. In China, college graduates are 
not given a degree but they are given a job. 

Mr. NiTTLE. "Wliat was your assignment on completing your course 
at this school ? 

Mr. Huang. I was sent to teach English at the Foreign Language 
Institute in Peking. 

Mr. NiTTLE. I presume that the students received various assign- 
ments ? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, various, according to your qualifications, various 

Mr. NiTTLE. When did you report there ? 

Mr. Huang. About February 1950. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What was this Institute of Foreign Languages? 

Mr. Huang. An institute. I am not veiy clear 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was it a university ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, in fact, higher than that term, because most of 
the students there 

ISIr. NiTTLE. Had this been in existence for some years ? 

Mr. Huang. No, I think at the time of my assignment it was begin- 
ning to really take form. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Had they taken over university grounds of Nationalist 
China, or had they created this anew ? 

Mr. Huang. Anew, entirely anew. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did they just take over buildings in the city of Peking ? 

Mr. Huang. No, not in the city, in the suburbs ; in fact, not very far 
from this revolutionary school. 

Mr. NiTTLE. How large was it ? 
_ Mr. Huang. At the beginning, it was veiy small. English and Rus- 
sian were the only two courses, and each had very few students, two 
classes, or so. But later, in 1956, many new campus buildings were 
built, modernized, and enlarged, and maybe ten times more students 
were enrolled. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Plow long did you remain there ? 

Mr. Huang. All the time until I left for the West. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Wliat students were assigned to this institute for in- 
struction, and for what purpose ? 


Mr. Huang. At lirst, that is, in 1950, most of the students whom I 
t;ui<!:ht liad already tjraihiated fi-om colleges and universities. English 
dopartment,^ like man>' were graduates from St. John's University in 
Shanghai English courses, so their English was already veiy good 
at the time. 

At the beginning, that is, 1950, they were college graduates, univer- 
sity graduates, but later, of course, they could not always get the col- 
lege graduates to come for further training, so finally, they enrolled 
high school graduates. It became more and more formal. At the 
beginning, it was a sort of transition period; they did not set down 
goals, rules. I suppose it was the lack of experience, or something, I 
don't know; but later, goals also were set down, that is, the purpose of 
the training, according to your question. 

They set down, of course — I cannot remember so many, but to 
remember a few of the goals, why they instructed the students — a 
student must have good socialist virtue. That is one of the training 
purposes. And then they must have good health. And then they 
must have high qualified ability in the languages that they were trying 
to learn. 

I think those were the three main ones I remember, because as a 
teacher we had to coordinate into this. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Did they tell you what was the objective of this lan- 
guage instruction? By that, I mean, were you being instructed to 
work in embassies, to translate documents, to engage in espionage, or 
Avhat ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, the general purpose of this — these students went 
to whatever place, whatever branch, where they were needed. I know 
some of my students went into foreign service, to foreign embassies, 
and some went to teach English at various schools, high schools, and 
some became interpreters. WHierever they were needed, they were 
assigned. But espionage was not mentioned. Even if they had in- 
tended to have it, they would not have mentioned that in the purpose. 

Mr. NiTTLE. You indicated that the course of instruction was later 
expanded during the time you were there ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, much more so. 

Mr. NiTTLE. To what extent was it expanded ? 

(At this point Mr. Johansen left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Huang. English was taught in a very simple manner. Just 
English, you practice conversation. We teachers made up some short 
conversation pieces and asked the student to repeat like a parrot. But 
later, instruction was on a more scientific basis. 

Mr. NiTTLE. I am not ref en-ing to the method of instruction. Were 
other courses given in addition to English and Russian? 

Mr. Huang. First, it was only English and Russian, but later there 
were geography, education, political science, economy, history, and, 
later, Chinese language. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you perform any duties at this institute other than 
giving instruction to students, and did the students perform any duties 
other than study ? 

Mr. Huang. What do you mean by "other duties" ? I am not too 

Mr. NiTTLE. Were you given any employment of some sort? 


Mr. Huang. No. No, tlie student's pin-pose was to study, to learn. 
The teacher's duty was to teach. 

But most teachers, I should say, did something of our own. Like 
myself. I became interested in translation, and translated half a 
dozen novels on my own. Sometimes I was criticized for doing so, 
because it took some time, you know, and brought financial gains. 
That was criticized. But, on the other hand, they said, "If you do 
not interfere with your regular teaching, why, it is all right." 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you receive a salary while teaching at this insti- 

Mr. Huang. Yes. But only later, beginning with 1952. Before 
that, everybody got the same thing, except the older generation, those 
old professors who remained, everybody ate the same thing, got a 
little pocket money. They called that sort of a wartime communism, 
or something. That was practiced for a short while until 1952. They 
said the country's economy had recovered and tliey started a salary 
system. A ranking system also started. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was the amount of salary equal among all the in- 
structors and professors, or did it differ? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, it differed. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Some received more, some received less ? 

Mr. Huang. Naturally. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What about the living assignments ? Did some receive 
better assignments, and some worse assignments? 

Mr. Huang. Living quarters? 

Mr. NiTTLE. Yes. 

Mr. Huang. No, living quarters were based upon the needs of the 
family. Starting with 1952, they started the salary system, the rank- 
ing system, and they constructed a new building, living quarters. 

(At this point Mr. Johansen returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Huang. And they were distributed, as I remember, rather 
strictly unto needs, because I was a lecturer, because I had children 
and I had 

Mr. NiTTLE. How did they justify the differences in salary? Had 
they not proclaimed to you previously at the Revolutionary Univer- 
sity that everything was going to be equal in China? 

Mr. Huang. No, that did not mean that. We never understood 
it as such. That was the final goal, when communism was established, 
a long time later, perhaps. At the time they applied a socialist prin- 
ciple for distribution. They said to each according to his labor, not 
according to his need. That was for communism society, they said, 
it is not for that stage. Some people did have a misunderstanding. 
They said, "Wliy don't we have equality right now?" That was 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did anything of significance occur during the years 
1950 to 1959 while you were an instructor at the Foreign Language 
Institute in Peking? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, there were many movements, constantly move- 

Mr. NiTFLE. What was the first movement that brought some 
changes in your life and experiences? 

Mr. Huang. It was very well known to the West, even, the move- 
ments. First, I 


Mr. NiTTLE. Actually, the first thing was probably the Korean war, 
which took place in 1950? 

Mr. Huang. The Korean war didn't seem to have much effect among 
the intellectuals. I do not recall. I mean, there was a tremendous 
propaganda and rousing up of the whole country and the volunteers 
and that kind of thing. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did tlie}' tell you students and instructors that North 
Korea had committed aggression upon South Korea? 

]\Ir. Huang. No, just the other way around, naturally. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Tliey told you just the opposite. 

Mr. Huang. They just said this Korean war was instigated and 
headed by the United States to help South Korea to conquer North 
Korea. That is what they said. 

Mr. NiTTLE. You indicate that the Korean war had no great 
significance with respect to your life experiences at the time. Will you 
tell us what was the first great change that affected your life at the 
institute ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, there were many factors, but gradually some 
become stronger, while some were not so strong. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Could you relate them and give a brief explanation 
for each ? 

Mr. Huang. I will try. First, as I was saying, at the university, 
I already began to realize what they meant by "freedom" and "democ- 
racy." I felt it was not the same as I understood, I experienced in 
the United States, for instance. 

In the United States, I experienced and saw and I learned from 
personal experience — of course, there were some things which I didn't 
like, like racial discrimination, and personally I encountered a few 
insults of this kind, but in many other things, like the Government, 
even the President was openly criticized by any individual in the 
newspaper. I thought that was a high degree of equality and democ- 
racy, which I never expected to have happen in, say, China. And 
the Government and the press was so free to reporters. They just 
dug into any secrets they could find and, whether they were good or 
bad, they just could publish whatever they found freely. 

And amongst the people, although there were some very rich and 
some poor, even the very poor, I thought, were much richer than 
people in China. 

So by this comparison, of course, even at the Revolutionary Uni- 
versity, I did not absorb everything they wanted to impart to me, 
especially matters dealing with the United States, like the theory of 
half the Nation were in starvation, or were driven out to the streets' 
because they could not pay rent, because I did not see those things 
in the United States. 

Once or twice I attempted to discuss these things, but I was sort 
of instructed — not directly instnicted. but the hint was given to me — 
"what you have seen in the United States may be true, but here in 
the university, we do not want to propagandize those good aspects 
of the United States, the prosperity, the high degree of democracy 
amongst the people." The Government was elected by the people, 
and I remember quite clearly, in 1948 Mr. Wallace campaigned, and 
he was considered progressive, but only a million or so people sup- 
ported him. If the people wished even that Progressive Party, why 


tliey could freely vote for him, and he would be elected, so it was a 
government by the people. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Exactly. 

Mr. Huang. And these things were my experience, and I saw them. 
Therefore, at the university, I already experienced a certain degree 
of limitation to personal freedom, thoughts, and action. 

But at the time I was still youthful, idealistic, I expected some better 
change, and I thought perhaps during the war of revolution, fighting 
the civil war still gomg on, perhaps a certam discipline was neces- 
sary, and especially, their high ideals about the final goal, being at 
the time the people's democratic government, in which many good 
virtues were being brought into being. I was still very much at- 
tracted, at this date, but then I already felt the first degree of limita- 
tion to personal free thinlving. 

Mr. NiTTLE. You were beginning to recognize that there was a 
great deal of difference between Communist talk and the actuality 
under that system ? 

Mr. Huang. I was beginning to realize the "democracy and free- 
dom," as they interpreted it at the time. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was a different thing from what you had experienced 
freedom and democracy to be in a truly democratic country ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. But at that time they did not emphasize con- 
trols very much. The first movement to affect the Foreign Language 
Institute was the San Fan, or Three Anti's movement. I am sorry 
I cannot remember the precise dates, but I shall try to answer in 
chronological order as far as I can. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Yes, and the approximate time. 

Mr. Huang. The Three Anti's movement, in which I experienced a 
sort of — I would not know how to describe it very properly — well, I 
just give the facts, perhaps it is better. You know I am not qualified 
as a sociologist or an analyst, but the facts, of course, are still quite 
fresh. The main thing, at least. 

At the first, the party proclaimed that because they had gained 
power and had gotten to the cities, they discovered that, as they say, 
quite a strong influence — "bourgeois*" influence, that is — had begun to 
affect tlie revolution, even some high-ranking party members, and 
the corruption was very serious, and waste, the greed, and that kind 
of thing. 

They attributed all this to the "petty bourgeois" influence. They 
cited many examples that were all reported in the newspapers. 

I remember a few. For instance, they said at the time some fairly 
high party secretaries thought that now they liad won the victoiy, so 
it was time for them to relax and to enjoy life. So they built mag- 
nificent offices and they bought the latest model of American auto- 
mobiles — from Hong Kong, I suppose, I don't know. 

Mr. NiTTLE. These are for the party leaders only, the Communist 
leaders ? 

Mr. Huang. Some, not all. And one, I remember, even had a 
swimming pool built. They went much too far, and bribery, stealing 
government property, and corruption of various kinds were quite 
serious. So they started this San Fan, Three Anti's movement on 

Some of the officials, Communist officials, were doing very little, 
just were issuing orders, sitting in the offices. Bureaucracy, corrup- 


tion, and waste. Waste of a lot of govenmient money, although it 
was not their salary, but they could appropriate, or some of the offices 
were magnilicently furnished with all kinds of luxurious furniture, 
and that kind of thinii' was widespread. 

Therefore, the party proclaimed it was high time, it was very neces- 
sary to have a rectification campaign to clear this. They said if this 
was not done, if a rectification campaign was not carried through 
thoroughly, then the party would degenerate into a bourgeois party 
like the Kuomintang, and there would be nothing done, there would 
be no more revolution, so they said. They aroused the whole popula- 
tion to participate in this San Fan, Three Anti's movement. 

However, at first, of course I was living at the university. I did 
not get around very much and did not know what was happening, 
actually, personally, but I can relate the events that have been in my 

Am I too much in detail ? Shall I make briefer ? 

Mr. NiTTLE. I would summarize it, give us the main points and 

Mr. HuAXG. Yes, but sometimes I cannot do what I wish. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Yes, we realize that. 

Mr. Huang. You can stop me any time. 

So at first, the people did not know how to carry out this Three 
Anti's movement. 

In a school, the students, teachers, did not know what to do, so the 
party's Central Committee said they will show, set the example. 

They used a term which is still fresh, they said to "set fire" to the 
leadership first. That is, they wanted to say the leadership of every 
organization must by order of their government and the party or- 
ganization show the masses that they themselves are willing to be 
burned clean, first. 

So I remember that in my institute, the president, also a first 
party secretary, went up to the stage — and it was a mass meeting, of 
course — went to the stage and "set fire" on himself. He criticized 
himself. But there was not very much in that. He was also a scholar 
of some sort. He studied in former Yenching University, I believe, 
and he criticized himself, but then the directives issued to the people 
said, "This must be thoroughly done, without any reserve," regardless 
of his rank or his party standing. The movement must be thoroughly 
carried out if the']:)arty and the revolution wanted to go on; other- 
wise the party would die. They considered it very serious. So they 
wanted the masses to criticize strongly as much as they could, severely. 

By and by, the masses were aroused and in my feeling became a' 
little bit hectic and fanatic, because suddenly, somebody in the meeting 
hall shouted at the president asking him to kneel down on the stage. 
Before judgment, he was already considered as some sort of criminal. 
This was something surprising to me. 

Well, with all this and the shouting, the ]:>residium on the stage 
became afraid, too. The presidium consisted of professors, some heads 
of various departments. They did not know what to do. They w^ere 
afraid of the mob. They said, "AVhat is happening? Why suddenly 
they became so angry ?" 


After some time, even the president was scared, because I remember 
he stood there ; he asked, "What have I done ? You accuse me with 
facts. What on earth have I done ? " 

There were a few facts could be brought — I don't know, I still 
cannot understand what suddenly aroused them, so later, the meeting 
was called off. They said we had better stay and disperse and cool 
down; this must be conducted calmly and normally. Why all this 
shouting and cureing? This is petty bourgeois emotion. This is not 
a revolutionary discipline. 

Mr. Doyle. How many people were in those meetings ? 

Mr. Huang. You mean 

Mr. DoTLE. This was at the meeting where they were shouting. 
How many people ? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, several hundreds, mostly students; but teachers 
and others, all of them were gathered. 

Mr. Doyle. At the university ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. Nittle. Mr. Huang, we would like to summarize your career 
briefly, and then we shall return to these matters that you are presently 

You remained at the Foreign Language Institute in Pekiiig as an 
instructor from 1950 to 1959. Did you receive another assignment 
after that ? 

Mr. Huang. You mean after 1959 ? 

Mr. NiTTLE. Yes. 

Mr. Huang. In October 1959, I was sent to teach Chinese in Iraq, 
to implement the cultural exchange program between China and Iraq. 
So I was an Iraqi Government employee. I was sent there. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you teach, then, at a university or school in Iraq ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. NiTPLE. "Wliere in Iraq ? 

Mr. Huang. I was employed by the Institute of Languages of the 
Baghdad University in Baghdad. 

Mr. NiTTLE. How long did you remain as an instructor in Baghdad ? 

Mr. Huang. Upon arrival in Baghdad, the dean of the institute, 
or no, of the Baghdad University — some official, I do not recall his 
name — had interview with me, and I was formally employed; and 
at this Higher Institute of Languages, the dean appointed me as 
head of the Chinese Section. And also, I was automatically a mem- 
ber of the school comicil, which consisted of all heads of the six dif- 
ferent sections. 

Mr. NiTTLE. How long did you remain in that position ? 

Mr. Huang. I stayed there until June 1961. 

Mr. NiTTLE. And then what happened ? 

Mr. Huang. Then my contract was completed, but the Iraqi Gov- 
ernment and the school authority wanted me to stay for another year 
or two, because they thought I should, if possible, help them to get it 
really more firmly established. The changing of personnel too often 
would not be to their advantage ; and besides, they thought my instruc- 
tion was quite successful, and highly valued. They mentioned that 
to me a few times and they earnestly desired my further stay. 

However, the Chinese Embassy there, the Chinese Government, 
wanted us to go back to China for a "vacation,-' as they say. At pres- 


ent that is their policy. Occasionally, especially when important 
tilings are going on, their personnel, called cadres, are called back to 
China. They want these people to go back to China for what they 
call "reorientation." If you lived abroad too long, all kinds of influ- 
ences would have affected your thoughts and action, and besides, you 
would know so much less about your country, they said, which was 
so quickly developing. You must keep up with events and develop- 
ment of the country. So they told me. I was to go back to China to 
Peking, for a vacation. And they did not say definitely I was to 
return, but they say it is quite possible and quite likely, because the 
Iraqi Government, at the rexpiest of the Iraqi institute, had sent 
a diplomatic note to the Chinese Embassy requesting my further stay 
because of the need there. At least the dean told me they had done 

Mr. NiTTLE. The Chinese Government was afraid that if you re- 
mained too long you might become influenced by non-Communist so- 
ciety ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right, that applies to every Chinese living 

Mr. NiTTi^E. Apparently the Soviets have a similar system of rota- 
tion for fear that their citizens may become influenced by the society 
in which they live. 

Mr. Huang. That is right, rotation. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Would you call it a form of distrust of their own 

Mr. Huang. Well, I do not exactly know the implication of this 
term. But this I know for sure, that they did not want you to stay 
abroad too long and have too much influence from abroad. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you finally have to leave ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What were your instructions as to the method of 
return ? 

Mr. Huang. Method of return ? 

Mr. NiTTLE. To China. 

Mr. Huang. That is simple. They just reserved plane tickets, and 
that is all. 

Mr. NiTTLE. In which direction did you go? What direction did 
you take? 

Mr. Huang. My route was to fly via Damascus and Athens and then 
to Prague, or somewhere, because I never got that far. 

Mr. NiTTLE. "Wlien did you leave ? 

Mr. Huang. The 8th of June. 

Mr. NiTTLE. 1961 ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right, I think it was the 8th. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was anyone sent back with you to accompany you ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, another teacher. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Had his term expired ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, our contract fulfilled. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Had he the same length of contract you had ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Had he come with you from China to Baghdad ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 


Mr. NiTTLE. Had he been at the same school you attended ? 

Mr. Huang. That is correct. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Now what happened at Athens? 

Mr. Huang. Well, as a fact, it became very simple. Simpler, even, 
than I had thought. In Athens, we had a stop, but I wasn't very sure, 
because I didn't travel in that way frequently enough to know, so I 
was not sure whether there would be a chance, a possibility, but it 
turned out to be rather simple. 

At the Athens airport, I sat down with my colleague, and we were 
having a cup of coffee, and I said to myself, this is the last opportu- 
nity, there will be a half an hour or so of stay. So I just picked up 
my little suitcase, a handbag, and walked out of the station and asked 
the Athens authorities to give me permit to stay in Greece. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Had you decided at that point to leave Communist 
China permanently ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, my imderstanding is once you leave that country, 
the possibility of returning is very, very slim. I don't know what 
would happen, of course, but if one went back I know one thing for 
sure, they would ask you to confess, criticize yourself for many years, 
and you would have no peace of mind. So I thought 

JNIr. NiTTLE. Why did you defect from Communist China at that 
stage ? 

Mr. Huang. There are a few important reasons. Of course, I am 
not capable of deep, complete, absolute analysis, but some points are 
quite distinct in my mind. At least, they are, I think, the chief 

One : In my experience during the past 10 years' life, including the 
life lived in Iraq, I found the regimentation, the limitation of per- 
sonal liberty, unbearable. You cannot do this, joii cannot do that, 
you have to think in this way, you have to in that way, and that way 
is the only correct way of thinking ; so it made me in many cases feel 
that I was not honest. 

I did try to present my true feelings, my thoughts, but each time, 
before I — when I barely started, when I barely started to reveal my 
true thoughts, I suffered gi-eat moral — what do you call that ? — I could 
not find that term, sort of pressure, that is the right use, the right 
and wrong; now if you say this, you are wrong; if you say this, you 
are right. 

That kind of mental pressure. They do not beat you. You are not 
beaten by roughnecks or hoodlmns. They do not have such practice, 
because that would not carry them too far, but a sort of abstract pres- 
sure that I felt very strongly. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Resulting from this re-education process? 

Mr. Huang. The whole life. Constantly. It is a constant phe- 
nomenon. Pressure. Mental, not physical. They say this is right, 
this is wrong. If you said something against the party line, then you 
have something to worry about : I have said something wrong, I have 
acted in the wrong way, now I must start preparing self-criticism, and 
you don't know how long that will take. 

Sometimes you write again and again to criticize yourself. Some- 
times I felt rather sick of it, because I felt I have no more to say along 
this line. But they say it is still not good enough; you should study 
more and analyze your thoughts and your background further. That 


was an endless process, and I felt it was not just mentally unbearable, 
but the wastino- of time, too. They ask you to write the self-criticism, 
many padres at a time, hours and hours. 

You could have accomplished something more valuable and useful, 
read a few books, for instance, listen to the radio, amuse yourself, or 
sleep to improve your health; but instead writing, writing, self- 

Mr. Doi-LE. Let me ask this : When did you come definitely to the 
conclusion to defect? Was that in Greece, was it in Athens; or when 
you left Baghdad, had you already made up your mind that 3'ou were 
never going back to Communist China? You must have made a de- 
cision sometime. 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. Doyle. ^Yhn.t about your baggage and everything else? When 
did you take care of that? 

1 ou understood my question, Mr. Witness ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Doyle. Now, if you remember my question, will you please 
answer that question ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. The decision, of course, was not a simple one, 
because I had a family there — I had two little children, whom I loved 
very, very much. 

Mr. Doyle. How old are those children ? 

Mr. Huang. A daughter eight, a boy five, now. 

Mr. Doyle. And your wife, where was she ? 

Mr. Huang. At the institute. She was also a teacher at the same 
institute. As to the decision — of course I cannot definitely say on 
what day the idea came about. More and more, it became mature. 

But, during the process of several months, I became deeply worried 
for not being able to make a choice, one way or the other. I wanted 
very much to leave the country and to speak of my mind freely, I 
very much wanted to do that, because in China in the past 10 years, 
there was only the party line w^hich we could follow. We could not do 
otherwise. So I had a strong desire to speak up my mind. 

Then, on the other hand, my family, the ties, the bonds that were so 
strong, kept me in constant distress. Therefore, the decision was not 
very sharp drawn. Sometimes, I had a strong urge to leave Com- 
munist China, but then I would waver back a little and then — but 
more and more, as I was just asked about the reasons, the reasons for 
my leaving Communist China became stronger, much, much stronger, 
so the decision became, of course, coming gradually to finality. 

Although my ties with my family were still strong, I thought that 
is the best way for me to do, a better way, between the two choices. 
If I had to remain in China, I would remain, probably, forever, just 
as they demanded of every individual, a tool, a docile tool of the party. 
There is no individuality. 

Mr. Doyle. But you had made up your mind in Baghdad that you 
were going to defect ? 

Mr. Huang. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. So that when you got on the plane, you knew you were 
going to defect ? 

Mr. Huang. I was going to try, anyway. 


Mr. DoTLE. Yes. Now you had your two children with you? 

Mr. Huang. No. 

Mr. Doyle. Where did you leave them ? 

Mr. Huang. They are in Peking. 

Mr. Doyle. Your wife also ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. I was all alone in Baghdad, as a matter of fact. 

Mr. Doyle. All right. 

Mr. Johansen. Do you have any opportunity of any contact with 
them, or would that be harmful to them ? 

Mr. Huang. For one year I was thinking of writing to them, while 
living in Gennany, but sometimes it seemed the thing to do, and some- 
times it seemed better not, so I did not know what to do. 

As I said, we were in two different worlds and we are both suffering 
pains for personal reasons, and all kinds of other reasons, so let this 
pain subside a little. And I would not — most of all, I would try if I 
could, in any way, not to bring undue troubles to them. They are 
troubled already, much too much, so I wanted, if possible, to avoid 
any thought of contact which might bring them difficulties. 

Mr. Doyle. Does your wife get enough pay so the children are sup- 
ported ? How are they eating ? 

Mr. Huang. In China, as you probably know, of course, the living 
standard is rather low. Therefore, the problem of living, as such — 
I mean not luxurious living, daily necessities, you understand — is not 
a problem. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you heard fi*om your wife since you left Athens ? 

Mr. Huang. No, I haven't. 

Mr. Doyle. Or your children ? 

Mr. Huang. Nothing. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you ever work on a farm in China ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Doyle. For how long ? 

Mr. Huang. For 10 months, and then later 3 months in mining area. 
First, I was sent to the villages, in November 1957. 

Mr. Doyle. And that was just farm work ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, manual labor. 

Mr. Doyle. You were ordered to do that ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, you could say that, perhaps, but the process was 
to "volunteer." They didn't force me, I signed up. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you ever work in a factory in China, any kind of 
a factory ? 

Mr. Huang. Not a modern factory. Only in mining, in an iron 
smelter factory, in the hills. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you ever try to practice medicine in Cliina ? 

Mr, Huang. No, I never did. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you ever try to do anything besides teach and work 
on the farm and work in the mines in China ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Doyle. What? 

Mr. Huang. Translation. 

Mr. Doyle. Translation and what else, if anything ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, some — but it is not an employment. Once in 
a while I was asked to do some interpreting, but very rarely. 


Mr. D0YI.E. Mr. Johansen, you go ahead. I want Mr. Joliansen 
to take wliatever time he wants. 

Mr. JoTiANSEx. Did you enpifre in any Communist activity in Iraq? 
In other words, were your activities there limited strictly to your 

]Mr. Huang. Yes. Even before we arrived, actually, wo were given 
instructions, and when we got to Iraq, we received further, several 
times, a series of instructions saying that we must not as teachers in 
any way get involved in Iraqi politics. 

IVIr. JoiiANSEN. Now those instructions came fi-om your superiors 
in Red China? 

ISIr. Huang. That is right. 

INIr. Johansen. So that you had no contacts with Communists in 

Mr. Huang. We were not allowed to. 

ISIr. Johansen. This associate of yours who was at the airport in 
Athens, was he aware of what you were going to do ? 

Mr. Huang. No, no. 

Mr. Johansen. You simply excused yourself ? 

INIr. Huang. That is right, I just walked off. 

Mr. Johansen. Have you at any time, in Red China or elsewhere, 
had any knowledge of any Chinese views or Chinese activities, Com- 
munistChinese views or activities, with respect to Cuba? 

Mr. Huang. Only from publications or occasional lectures, but 
mostly from the newspapers — of course, they all strongly supported 

Mr. Johansen. And they have some of their own people in Cuba, 
I believe. Is that true, to your knowledge? 

Mr. Huang. I don't know. Because at that time, I don't think 
they had established any diplomatic — I am not sure. I don't know 
about this. But the newspapers, there were frequent reports and 
Cuba was highly praised. 

^Ir. Johansen. Could you sketch for us very quickly where you 
were and your activities between your defection in Athens and your 
arrival back in the United States? 

Mr. Huang. Between Athens and the States. 

When I asked a permit to stay in Athens, I was granted a temporary 
stay in Greece. Some friends then suggested I visit Germany since 
I had studied some German, and I thought it would be a good idea, too. 

Mr. Johansen. This, of course, is West Germany? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

I wanted to visit Germany and I was also beginning to think about' 
my future. 

During the flight, or even a little before, I was not sure what the 
outcome would be. I Avas going to try, but I could not be sure. I 
was not sure that I Avould succeed. Therefore, my mind was rather 
uncertain about the future. I did not even really think about it. I 
said first I had to succeed before I could think of my future. There- 
fore, when I was granted a permit to live in Athens, then I began 
to think about my future settlement. When someone suggested a 
visit to West Germany, I thought that was a good idea. I had always 
wanted to visit Germany. 


"Well, when I got to West Germany, I looked around for a while, 
and in the meantime, of course, I tried to improve my German; but 
I became restless again. I knew I would have to find a final settle- 
ment and start to live a normal life, to find the means to express my 
own thoughts and my own feelings. At least, I would give a true 
picture of Commmiist China to the Western World, because I thought 
any true understanding would be very useful among peoples. 

I never can, in my life, hate anybody for any reasons. Maybe 
somebody may have made some mistakes, but I cannot hate anybody. 
My idea was tliat if I could present a true picture of communism, the 
evils practiced and the fallacies and the mistakes committed, the 
peoples' sufferings, mental and economic, as well as some of the things 
they did which were beneficial to the people, this would perhaps be 
helpful for a further understanding and judgment of what is really 
going on in Communist China, good and bad, evil and virtuous, or 
something. Then the dealings, the policies made toward China, per- 
haps would be of some value. 

Mr. DoTLE. How long did you stay in Germany ? 

Mr. HuAXG. I stayed there for about 10 months. Someone helped 
me to get a place, a decent place to live ; and finally, when I began to 
think about my final settlement and somebody suggested that there 
was an organization called AFKF, he suggested 

Mr. DoTLE. "WHiat is that organization ? 

Mr. Huang. I believe the initials represent American Friends of 
Russian Freedom, or something — AFRF. 

Mr. Doyle. A refugee association ? 

Mr. Huang. It is an organization whose purpose is to help the re- 
settlement of refugees from the Communist countries. 

Mr. Jon ansen. May I ask you now the most difficult question of all ? 
You spoke of the matter of the policies that you would like to see en- 
couraged with respect to China. "\"\niat are some of those policies and 
what ought to be, in your judgment, the attitude and relationships 
of the United States to China ? '\^^iat is the outcome, and how is it to 
be consummated ? 

Mr. Huang. I am sorry — I am afraid I have not thought things out 
that far. I only felt that, since China tries to keep as many things as 
possible secret, possibly many of the things I had experienced were not 
known in the West. That is what I meant. I would tell my own 
personal experiences. 

Mr. Doyle. You mean that you hesitate to make an opinion? 

Mr. Huang. It is difficult, yes. 

Mr. Doyle. You fear something ? 

Mr. Huang. Not fear, but I have not 

Mr. Doyle. Why then can you not answer the question ? 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Let me pinpoint it to a specific question that is much 
discussed and debated in this country. 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Should the United States grant diplomatic recogni- 
tion to Red China, or should we support the seating of Red China in 
the United Nations ? 

Mr. Huang. This is, I am sorry, a very difficult question. I have 
not studied the authority or aspects. I have discussed it with some 
friends. Nobody seemed to miderstand, to draw conclusions you 
know, what actually should be done. It is difficult. 


Mr. JoiiANSEN. AVould we strengthen the Communist regime in 
China if we did those two things ^ 

Mr. HuAKG. No, you would not try to strengthen the Conmiunist 
regime, because it is hostile to the United States. 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. I think you misunderstood my question. I agree 
with you that we should not strengthen them, of course. 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. But would the grantmg of diplomatic relations, 
recognition, or the seating of Red China have the effect of strength- 
ening those who exercise tliis tyranny over the people of China? 

Mv. Huang. I never thought of this question. I feel I am incapable 
to make any prediction or statement. 

First, I am not politically trained in the Western sense. I was in- 
doctrinated only in Communist sense, and my views of the past are 

JNIr. JoHANSEN. I won't press the question. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Do you feel it is at all possible, or ever possible, for 
the free world and the Comjnunist world to become reconciled in 
some way? 

Mr. Huang. Well, at least this I hope, there should not be a mutual 
destructive total war. I hope there Avon't be any such thing. 

Mr. NittLe. There won't be, if the Communist world does not com- 
mit aggression, because I think it is quite clear to everyone that the 
free world has no aggressive intentions. 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Do you think the Chinese people understand that? 

Mr. Huang. I don't think so. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Are they bein^ misinformed ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, because m China it is a one-sided view. But in 
regard to China, I only have this wish, that these two peoples should 
become friends. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Let me ask you one more question in connection with 
this: Were you not instructed in Commmiist China that the World 
Communist ^lovement has as its objective the domination of the world ? 

Mr. Huang, Well, yes, or as I said, they want the whole world to be 

Mr. NiTTLE. But if the free world accepts a so-called peaceful solu- 

Mr. Huang. Then that might be detrimental to the interests of the 
United States. You cannot give over your interests to accept. I 
mean, peace should not be detrimental to national interests. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. It should not be surrender, in other words? 

Mr. Huang. That is right, that is right, never in such a great coun- 
try, you should not surrender. I don't think you should even talk 
about a surrender. Far from that. 

Mr. Doyle. You went through this brainwashing or re-education, 
and it evidently had a good deal of effect on you, didn't it ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, I think, in one way or another, there must be 
some because you listened to that constantly. But I always feel that 
I reserve my own judgment. I mean, I do not always follow things 
just told me like a baby. I think that is one of the causes I never con- 
formed to the Communists. 


Mr. Doyle. They compelled you, didn't they, to join the Communist 
Party, the organization, to be a part of it ? They must have done that. 

Mr. Huang. No, I was only a candidate, not a full party member. 

Mr. Doyle. Wliat does a candidate do ? 

Mr. Huang. You cannot vote, you cannot be elected, you cannot 
participate in party member meetings, you cannot participate at im- 
portant meetings. It is more or less like the ordinary people. 

Mr. Doyle. But you had to attend some meetings ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, some meetings, I had to. 

Mr. Doyle. And as an intellectual, you participated in some of the 
meetings ? They asked you questions ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, discussions. 

Mr. Doyle. Discussions, you joined in the discussions at the Com- 
munist Party meetings ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. Doyle. They never made you sign anything ? 

Mr. Huang. No. 

(At this point Mr. Johansen left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Doyle. But they made you attend? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. How often did they make you attend Communist 
meetings ? 

Mr. Huang. You see, I became a candidate party member in March 
1959, after I came back to school from the villages. But immediately, 
I mean shortly afterward, I was sent to Baghdad, to abroad, so my 
situation was quite different. If I had stayed in China, 1 think I 
probably would have participated in more meetings and discussions, 
received more indoctrination. 

Mr. Doyle. Suppose you participated in a dozen meetings, a dozen 
or 15 meetings? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, about that. In Baghdad, this 2 years. 

Mr. Doyle. Oh, yes. And in Baghdad, too? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, only in Baghdad. In China, it was a very brief 

Mr. Doyle. But in Baghdad, there were 15 or 20 Communist Party 
meetings where you participated? 

Mr. Huang. I should say about a dozen. 

Mr. Doyle. You feel that they never re-educated you successfully 
against the United States Government? 

Mr. Huang. That is what I feel. Because I had lived in the United 
States before and I saw many things which are good. 

Mr. DoYi.E. But as I understand it, when you landed at Germany, 
you might have stayed in Germany instead of coming to the United 
States. Isn't that true ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. It was possible. Possible to stay in Germany. 

Mr. Doyle. That is right, so you didn't plan when you left Athens 
to come to the United States. You weren't sure ? 

Mr. Huang. I was not sure where I was coming. 

Mr. Doyle. You did not know where you would go ? 

Mr, Huang. That is right. 

Mr. Doyle. So that your coming to the United States was more or 
less a matter of accident? 


Mr. Huang. "Well, I would not say purely accident. 

First of all, I did not know whether I could be admitted as an 
iinmifl^rant. I could not be so sure because of my political training 
in l\ed China, but when I contacted the AFR,F organization, they 
responded quite warmly. They said they would help me to resettle. 

(Mr. Johansen returned to the hearing room at this point.) 

Mr. Doyle. Have you heard from your wife since you left? 

Mr. Huang. Not a word. 

Mr. NrrTLE. Is she a Communist Party member? I don't recall 
whether you said. 

INIr. Huang. No, she is not. But she was a Youth League member, 
used to be, when she was young. After 25, you could not go on. 

Mr. DoYLE, In this country ? 

Mr. Huang. No, in China. 

]\Ir. Johansen. You married her in China ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. My wife is Chinese. 

Mr. NiTTLE. When were you married ? 

Mr. Huang. 1953. 

Mr. Nitti^j:. Was there any difficulty between you and your wife 
arising out of her dedication to Communist principles? 

Mr. Huang. I felt quite a deal of strain between us in this respect. 
Otherwise. I think she is quite a very nice woman and I love her 
much. But politically, from very early beginning of marriage, I felt 
that trouble. 

(At this point Mr. Johansen left the hearing room.) 

]Mr. Huang. Because at the time I was simply one of the masses. 
I had no party or youth affiliation. I was nobody. I was just a 

But at the time she was a Youth I^^eague member, and so we some- 
times, of course, quarreled a little at home, and she went to report that 
to the Youth League. She told the Youth League everything, and I 
was criticized by the other people. They all know what happened at 
home — something private. I felt that "that practice was totally un- 
acceptable to me. 

Mr. N1TT1.E. She betrayed you to the Communists ? 

Mr. Huang. I would not use such a bad word against my wife. But 
she was so loyal to the ideas of communism and she said, w^ell, to con- 
fess everything, to be open to the party ; she believed that. 

]Mr. Doyle. She had never known anything else. 

Mr. Huang. No, she never had a chance to go abroad to see any- 

Mr. Doyle. Now is she getting enough compensation in money or- 
other benefits to support herself and two children ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, she has a salary, of course, but I doubt that my 
coming to the West would help her to increase that. 

Mr. Doyle. How do you know she is still teaching? 

Mr. Huang. I don't know whether she is still teaching. 

Mr. Doyle. You don't know where your children are, then ? 

]\Ir. Huang. I don't know anytliing about them in the past whole 

Mr. Doyle. Now what about your bank accounts? Do you get 
interest on them over there ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, quite high. 


Mr. Doyle. How does the interest get to you? You don't know 
where they are ? 

Mr. Huang. You mean my personal bank account? Well, those 
were handled by my wife. My wife will receive that. 

Mr. Doyle. Your wife will get the interest. Does she get the 
money, too ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. How large an amount would that be ? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, not much. 

Mr. Doyle. Five hundred dollars, one thousand dollars? 

Mr. Huang. Well, a few thousand in Chinese yen. 

Mr. Doyle. And how much would that be in U.S. money ? 

Mr. PIuANG. Altogether, everything — I bought government bonds — 
perhaps a thousand or two. 

Mr. Doyle. And did you sign that over to her ? 

Mr. Huang. No, before I left the country, I left everything to her, 

Mr. Doyle. Well, I know, but did you have to sign something over 
to give her the bank accounts ? 

Mr. Huang. No, not necessarily. It was just deferred to her, and 
then it is hers. 

Mr. Doyle. I see. In other words, the banks don't require any 
signature ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, I mean, when you deposit the money, the person 
gets it 

Mr. Doyle. In both names ? 

Mr. Huang. No, you get only the — what do you call that? 

Mr. D0YI.E. Deposit slip ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right, then you can get your money with that 
by presentation. 

(At this point Mr. Johansen returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Doyle. Then she deposited the money for you, did she? 

Mr. Huang. I did it. 

Mr. Doyle. You did it ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, before I left the country. 

Mr, Doyle, So then your name was the only one on the deposit 

Mr, Huang. Yes, but she could get it. You don't have to sign any 

Mr. Doyle. She could get it because you disappeared, is that it ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, if I was there, she could get it. 

Mr. Johansen. Was it a joint account? 

Mr. Huang. What I mean is, anybody could get it by presentation 
of that deposit slip. 

Mr, DoYi.E. Now let me ask this : Because you are an intellectual — 
they rate you as an intellectual — ^^they wanted you back in China, 

Have you heard from China in any way, through any agent or any- 
one speaking for the Communist government or from anyone in 
China, since you left Baghdad ? 

Mr, Huang, Athens ; not a single word. Not one letter. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you expect to ? 

Mr Huang. I don't think so. I have no connection with anybody, 
and they don't know where I am. How could they possibly ? 


Mr.^ DoTLE. Well, you have written somebody back in Baghdad, 
haven't you, some of your friends ? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, in Baghdad, but I didn't tell them where I was 

Mr, DoTLE. Well, what is your attitude right now, today, about our 
American Government, our American Nation? You did not plan 
to come here when you left Baghdad, you did not know where you 
were going. 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. So you are here. What is your attitude about it? 

Mr. Huang. Well, I must honestly say there are many things I 
like in this country. There are a few things I don't like. 

Mr. Doyle. What kind of things ? Help us out. 

Mr. Huang. Well, this personal liberty is practiced to a very large 
extent. In other words, like myself: I think if I want to, I can just 
disappear, because I have been granted an immigrant visa, and ]ust 
live anywhere, do what I like, so long as I obey the laws. 

But in Communist China, everything is traced. You have a loca- 
tion, you are assigned to a particular place, you have no freedom of 
movement, except only for short terms. Your job, everything, is as- 
signed. But here, personal liberty is practiced to a large extent. 
Ajid in the Government, so far as I know, it is elected democratically 
by the whole population. And this is a high degree of democracy. 

Mr, NiTTLE. Mr. Doyle was talking about intellectuals, and at this 
point it may be appropriate to have you briefly discuss the treatment 
received by intellectuals in China. 

There was a movement, of which we have been informed, called 
the hundred flowers movement, and I believe that movement, or some- 
thing that occurred in connection with it, resulted in your assignment 
to smeltering works and other manual labor, although you were 
trained as a teacher in a professional way. Could you elaborate on 
that briefly ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes. Well, the intellectuals — of course, I cannot speak 
for all the intellectuals of China, they have various background and 
tastes and personal ways of thinking, but, in general, I feel from my 
personal experience and observations, although we did not talk to each 
other freely about all aspects of Chinese life, that most Chinese intel- 
lectuals suffer from this limitation of freedom and regimentation. 

Why could I say this ? Of course I have no facts to prove it. After 
each movement, people became more reticent, they did not like to 
speak very much. They worked hard. You had to do that, because 
they called it patriotism, building socialism, and that kind of slogan. 
But you could see that they are not very happy. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Wliat was the himdred flowers movement and when 
did it take place ? 

Mr. Huang. In China, of course, they did not use this term, 
"hundred flowers." This was one of the slogans. 

I remember there were three stages in connection with the term 
you used. After 1955 or 1956, the Chinese Government felt that the 
country was to a large extent quite stabilized, and they said they 
thought through the past political movements, one after the other, the 
people, intellectuals especially, had gone through many thought re- 
forms and largely were in conformity. 


I remember the Premier, Chou En-lai, made a special report, which 
was published, in which he praised the intellectuals for having made 
so much political advancement — ''progress" they called it. 

So they wanted to give much more freedom and initiative to the 
intellectuals, to work more effectually and better. 

(At this point Mr. Johansen left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Huang. So that report was a great encouragement to the intel- 
lectuals, or at least I felt personally, and I think many of my col- 
leagues felt, now we will have some real more democracy and free- 
dom, because, at the time, they started all kinds of educational reforms 
along the Soviet model. They began to encourage intellectuals for 
more independent research, intellectual pursuit for higher standards; 
before it was always politics, politics, politics. You could neglect 
everything, but not politics. 

But afterwards, at this time, cultural advancement and scientific 
achievements were much emphasized. They even began to draw a 
plan, a 12-year plan, which later just disappeared and was never 
carried out. They began to draw a 12-year plan to catch up with the 
most advanced standard of the nations of the world, specifically. 
United States, most advanced country. They wanted to begin in many 
aspects to become the most highly cultured, scientifically developed, 
of the nations in 12 years. That was, I must say, a great encourage- 
ment to intellectuals, the freedom we were beginning to enjoy and the 
hopes we were trying to realize. There was nothing wrong in develop- 
ing science and the culture and education. 

Mr. Doyle. And what is the next stage ? 

Mr. Huang. So this was first stage, and then Chairman Mao Tse- 
tung, the head of the Communist Party, began to introduce this slogan. 
Nobody exactly said that was his slogan, but it was 

Mr. NiTTLE. You are referring to the hundred flowers slogan ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right, this slogan of — what was the exact word ? 
"Let one hundred flowers bloom. Let one hundred different schools 
of thought contend." That was to give freedom. 

So I remember at the time in Peking University, the University of 
Peking, even bourgeois economic theories, courses, were also studied. 
Some they called capitalist theories, courses, were beginning to be 
given by one or two professors. At the time there was quite a stir 
among the intellectuals. 

So at this first stage, the intellectuals were encouraged to pursuits 
more along intellectual lines. I think one very significant event that 
I mentioned about before, the intellectuals could, according to Lenin, 
they said, reach their own philosophical world outlook along their 
own professional lines. That is, they could deviate from the Marxist 
line. Eventually, they could reach the final truth, and that was some- 
thing very new, because we had experienced something quite differ- 
ent, you see, in the past. 

So the intellectuals were beginning working hard, and a lot of re- 
search work was undertaken. In the institute, we studied research 
works, dictionaries, such papers, comparison of languages. I myself 
wrote a couple of such research papers, too. So everybody was happy 
at the time to enjoy more intellectual freedom. 

That went on for a little while. Not very long. It was 1956 or 
1955-56, along there. I am not sure of the exact date. 


And then in 1957 the party wanted another campaign. First, it 
was the rectification campaign again. That occurred frequently in 
the Chinese Communist movement. I mean, it is not just one move- 
ment. They call it perpetual transformation, or something, to give 
you constant re-education. So that, lirst of all, they have to consoli- 
date the party, so each time we started with the party. This one was 
just the same. They started from the party rectification campaign. 
The masses like myself, we did not belong to any party or youth 
league, we just kept aloof. We were busy with our work, teaching 
work, didn't pay much attention, either, what was going on in the 
party ; but we observed the party members excused themselves from 
some other duties and joined in their meetings, and we knew they were 
busy participating in the party rectification campaign; and once in 
a while, I remember, I saw some party member downcast, very un- 
happy, and I thought he must have been criticized for his or her 
bourgeois ideology or bureaucracy or that kind of thing, perhaps, but 
we did not have much to do with them. 

But by and by, the line suddenly switched a little. Then the school 
party secretary asked the participation of the masses in this campaign. 
They said the party alone would not be able to cari-y it out very tho- 
roughly, because they didn't have enough criticism from outside. 
They wanted the masses, which were the majority, of course, to help 
bring pressure on the party members, so that it took a tremendous force 
to help them point out the defects from various angles. 

Air. XiTTLE. AMiat was the eventual outcome of the hundred flowers 
movement which you last referred to ? 

Mr. Huang. It is connected with this. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Proceed. 

Mr. Huang. You see, that hundred flowers was not itself a move- 
ment. It was a slogan, a sort of principle at the time. 

Mr. NiTTLE. "Wliat was the result and effect of this relaxation of 
the party pressure and ideology ? 

Mr. Huang. The result, as I said, was enthusiasm among 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did they then exercise their freedom of speech at this 

Mr. Huang. No, not yet. It will come later. 

At the time, they were just devoting their energies and time and 
thoughts in their own professional achievements, like many young 
students, also, whom I knew quite well. At this time, they made 
very quick progress in their own profession. The students, before, 
their progress in languages, learning, was very slow, because they were 
tied down by political studies, political movements. But at this time, 
they had much more time. 

Another thing to mention, I remember the time was limited for 
political studies, was limited to a maximum of 15 percent at this 
stage. Before it was much higher, time devoted to political activities; 
but at this time it was said too much political activity meant the 
intellectual could not have time for intellectual pursuits, so time was 
limited to 15 percent or something. The figure I am not very sure, 
but there was a limitation of it, that is, how many days in the week, 
how many hours in the day you have to leave the intellectuals alone. 
The party leader could not issue orders for any kind of political 


activity. Before, they could do that any time they wanted, but now 
it was set down that they could not do that, so that at tliis stage, the 
intellectuals were absorbed in this 12-year plan, as I mentioned, to 
catch up with the most advanced countries, nations of the world. 

But this was short lived, you know. So they soon started this 
party rectification campaio-u, and then before perhaps a month or 
so afterwards, they wanted the masses to help, to help them. So 
then the masses at the time, rememberino; what had happened earlier 
in the Three Anti's movement I mentioned, they said, "Well, if we 
say too much, later, we will get it back, with interest. We will be 
criticized, for what? We think it is right now. Later it will be 
wrong. We will be criticized.'* 

So "the intellectuals, the non-party intellectuals, just would not 
like to say anything, at first. And we just— well, you have to do some- 
thing — I don't Iviiow whether you know the ta tzu pao, large- 
character newspaper, you write in large characters, write on the wall, 
so that everybody can see, many people can see at the same time from 
a distance. That is a new invention. 

So at the time, the masses put up a few insignificant, trivial things, 
so the party said, "This does not help very much. This does not go 
very deep to the root of evils." Then they begged the masses, "You 
must help the party. This is for the country's good," and they would 
guarantee no retaliation. 

Mr. Doyle. Now, what stage is this in ? 

Mr. Huang. This is, I think, beginning to merge into the second 
stage. The first stage was the hundred flowers slogan, putting on the 
intellectual freedom and the party rectification. 

Mr. Doyle. Then this is in the second stage ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, this is almost emerging to the second stage, so 
they wanted the masses to participate. It is perhaps still first, sec- 
ond — sometimes — I just give the events. It is not clearly drawn, the 

Well, still the masses — at least I was not enthusiastic. It was the 
same thing. Defects or shortcomings are not very mysterious. You 
can see them for yourself. If this is not good, don't do it. You can 
see something is wrong for yourself. If so, whj^ all this commotions ? 

But more and more, the party cadres at school and the party lead- 
ers and the school presidents, officials, had quite a number of meetings 
to persuade, to guarantee there would be no retaliation, to persuade 
the masses to participate, because that would help the party in recti- 
fying their ranks, to correct their mistakes, and to make the party 
stronger. Therefore, the nation would be greatly benefited from that. 

Still I remember the masses did not do very much, still were afraid 
of this final outcome, were not sure ; but by this time, quite a lot of 
the party members themselves put up strong, large-character news- 
papers, criticizing the party leadership. And quite bold. It was 
very strong ; it never had been before. 

And nothing happened, and we knew they were party members, 
and so we said, "Maybe this time Chairman Mao really means free- 
dom, intellectual freedom, freedom of speech. This time, perhaps, it 
is really guaranteed by this slogan. The party line of 'let one hun- 
dred flowers bloom, let one hundred different schools of thought con- 
tend,' that is perhaps real." And then, at the same time, the news- 


paper reports, especially the People^s Daily^ reported tremendous 
criticisms of the party leadership, government leadership, some lead- 
ere quite high in rank, and by the many, many people there as teachers, 
office workers, all these were reported in the press, and we were 

We read this, and nothing happened. Some were very strong in 
terms of criticism. Some were even reported as liaving said, oh, "I 
don't like the Communists,"' or, ''I even M-anted to kill them." So 
strong terms were reported. Nothing happened, and we became 
relaxed and gradually we were dra^vii into it by persuasion, by all 
these phenomena; so we said, "Well, it is a good tiling, IJeally, each 
of us have seen some defects among the leaders, the party or official 
leadership, at least in the school, and we want to help. If they are 
sincere, okay. If they are sincere, we will criticize, and if we correct 
these mistakes, it will be quite reasonable," and that is what the masses 
did, so thousands of large-character newspapers were put up. There 
was no place on the walls. All walls were plastered Avith them, even 
windows, every little space. It was not enough, so the school au- 
thorities helped to set up extra walls made with poles and matting, so 
that we can paste the wall newspapers up all over the school, thou- 
sands and thousands of them. And I knew it was not just our school, 
every other school. 

Mr. DoTLE. That was the last stage ? 

Mr. Huang. No, no, the second stage. The last stage has not 
arrived yet. 

This was a very large degree of freedom, and you could see anima- 
tion among people. Of course, some of them, in their criticism, were 
emotional, I mean derogatory accusations, just cursing, some of them. 
I think personal reasons, revenge, and took opportunity to curse some 
of the people that they did not like, but most of them — I did not read 
very carefully. Even at this stage, I was not fully aroused. I did 
not like this Idnd of thing. I mean, you should sit down to work. 

But still, I read some of it, and looked around. There Avere so 
many. But most of them were genuine criticisms, pointing out the 
shortcoming, at a certain time, what event, what thing. "You did 
this. This is not a good thing, it is not the correct thing, not done 
in the interests of your school." 

Mr. DoTLE. Now tell us the third stage. 

Mr, Huang. So after this booming of criticism, and it came one day, 
reported in the Feoph'n Daily editorial, I remember the title of that 
editorial "What does this mean ?" That short editorial was the turn of _ 
the tide. 

Mr. NiTTLE. This was in an official Communist Party newspaper? 

Mr, HuAXG. I don't know whether it is Communist Party, but it is 
a chief newspaper, 

Mr, NiTTLE, It was the chief Communist newspaper, a government 
publication ? 

Mr, Huang, Yes, most important. Whether it is directly from the 
party or from the government, I don't know. 

Mr. NiTTLE, The party and the government were the same thing? 

Mr, Huang. Perhaps — well, the government was controlled by the 

Mr, NiTTLE. Yes, of course, so that it was, in effect, the party 



Mr. Huang. One and the same tiling, I should say, one and the same, 
but there were many papers. This %Yas the main newspaper. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What was the name of the newspaper ? 

Mr. Huang. The People\s Daily. 

Mr. NiTTLE. And what is it in Chinese ? 

Mr. Huang. Jen Min Jih Pao. 

So this editorial was the turning point of the second stage into the 
third stage. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Why did people fear this editorial ? 

Mr. PIuANG. On the day of the editorial, we were not aware of the 
fact that it was a turning point. 

Mr. NiTTLE. You did not realize the significance of this editorial? 

Mr. Huang. But we were a little bit shocked. We did not realize 
that it was the turning point, that there would be a change of the 
policy or anything, but the editorial mentioned that so far, in the 
earlier stages of the campaign, the movement went very well; the 
])eople enjoyed the freedom of speech, and so on. But then it said, 
but during this movement, according to facts that have been collected, 
anti-party elements — anybody against the party was "anti-party ele- 
ments" — took this opportunity to stir up and influence the people 
against the party. 

It is not the exact wording, but that is what. And they listed a few 
facts. I remember one was that one official who was not a party mem- 
ber but belonged to a minor party — there were several minor parties 
that are called the democratic parties, besides the Communist Party; 
there were seven or eight rather small minor parties — one of the officials 
of this party received a threatening letter indicating that he should 
not criticize according to the — let us see, what was it ? I cannot recall 
the exact words, but it is this, and he should not act exactly according 
to the Communist Party line; if he did, he would bear the serious 
consequences. I think he would be killed by a pistol, or something 
like that. But he was threatened, his life was threatened, and this 
official handed the letter to the Communist Party and said, "I am 
threatened. My life is threatened," so obviously, there are anti-party 
elements in this movement, and they picked out some party papers, 
I mean newspaper editorials, reports by the other parties, the minor 
parties, which were veiy critical of the Communist Party, also. They 
picked out those things and put, I think, a few points in there. 

So by and by, the Connnunist Party came to this decision 

Mr. NiTTLE. Perhaps you should clarify one point. You have 
mentioned other parties existing in China. 

Mr. Huang. Yes, eight or seven. I am not sure. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did the Commmiists tolerate this ? 

Mr. Huang. That was the "coalition" government. 

But these minor parties, of course, as I understand, they do not 
have real power. They have to follow the Communist Party line, 
so their existence is not as independent as you know in the West. 

Mr. Doyle. You talked about the newspaper editorial. 

Mr. Huang. That is right, so then in our school, so it began. We 
began to hear from the party secretaries, and they said now we have 
discovered effectively, by concrete evidence, that there have been anti- 
party elements who took the opportunity of this enlargement of free- 
dom, access of freedom, to create troubles against the government, the 
party, therefore, the interest of the people. That is what they said. 


So before we could carry on oui- campaign to a successful conclusion, 
■we must correct this course. Now the course is in the wrong direction. 
We must correct it. 

So that is tlie starting of the third stage, the anti-rightist. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What happened to those people who did criticize? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, they sullered various punislnnents. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Do you think tliat this ]iolicy of the hundred flowers 
was a ruse or a deception of the Conuuunist leadership, in order to 
reveal and weed out those who were not reliable in discipline? 

Mr. Huang. Well, there are several theories, but I am not sure just 

Mr. NiTTLE. What is your interpretation ? 

Mr. Huang. My personal feeling might be quite wrong, but I felt 
that at first they were sincere, because they felt their powers firmly 
established. They thought that with more freedom, more work and 
better work could be accomplished. That is my personal feeling; but 
when the access of freedom was actually practiced, and the masses 
fomid many faults with the party and they criticized, the party be- 
came sort of frightened — I may be quite wrong — so they turned it 

Mr. Doyle. I would like to ask two more questions, and then T 
must go. 

You mentioned you wrote some papei-s, some articles. 

Mr. Huang. A research paper. 

Mr. Doyle. Research papers and books over there ? 

Mr. Huang. Translations. 

Mr. Doyle. Translations, and you left them there, of course, for 
the institute ? Do they give you royalties ? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, they do. No, not the institute, but the publishers. 
My contract was with the publishers. 

Mr. Doyle. Oh, you had a contract. 

Mr. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Does your wife get those moneys, too ? 

Mr. Huang. No, we already got the money, but later, if they had 
more publication, additional publications, they probably would send 
more money. 

Mr. Doyle. Send her the money ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, send by my name. I suppose it is over, those 
books too seasonal, it could not last forever. 

Mr. Doyle. I remember the other day you said you had kept several 
of those paperback books and leaflets with you. You carried them, 
with you. ^^Hiere are they now ? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, in China. 

Mr. Doyle. You left them there ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. D0Y1.E. Did you bring any kind of booklets or pamphlets with 
you from Baghdad to Athens? 

Mr. Huang. No, no. From where we left China, sent us abroad to 
Iraq, we were not allowed to bring anything, paper, documents, noth- 
ing. We only were allowed to bring passport, nothing else, not a 
single paper, letters, nothing. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, thank you veiy much. 

Mr. Huang. Thank you. 


Mr. NiTTLE. Would you resume your discussion with respect to the 
development of the hundred flowers movement ? 

Mr. Huang. I will make it brief. 

Since you asked the questions, I am trying to express a little of my 
opinion, which may not be correct, because there have been many dif- 
ferent theories concerning this hundred flowers. 

Well, at first they appeared to me to be sincere, and so the people 
enjoyed, the intellectuals enjoyed, a greatly extended freedom. But 
I fear that at this time, when they discovered in the large-character 
newspapers that so many unsuspected ones were very critical of the 
party and concrete deeds committed by many party members, very 
critical, the party was totally unprepared for this. They thought 
all the intellectuals had made so many advances and ideological re- 
moldings, as Chou En-lai praised them for, and that they sincerely 
loved the party very, very deeply. They did not expect the events to 
turn out as they did. 

So they had to, as they proclaimed, change the course, because the 
course was not heading in the direction which they anticipated. 
Something else had emerged. So they changed this rectification cam- 
paign into an anti-rightist struggle. 

In this straggle, everybody — I mean, every intellectual in every or- 
ganization — liad to go through the process of criticism and self- 
criticism. Some in small groups, some in larger groups — a few were 
conducted with the participation of the entire school, the school body — 
but many small groups. At these meetings, each person, each partici- 
pant, had to re-examine his own thoughts. In other words, they had 
to go through a great process of thought remolding, by exposing their 
own views and thoughts. You read your own thoughts in written 
form, aloud to the group ; and the group would criticize you, point out 
what was wrong and what was right, in addition to your own criticism. 
They would help you to undei-stand the problem. 

They made everybody go through a stage, a fairly long period of 
criticism and self-criticism, and finally, in 1957, late 1957, the party 
decided to take measures to send intellectuals to the countryside to go 
through a period of manual labor. 

They proclaimed the three purposes, I remember, but later they 
changed or modified them a bit. I am not clear, but I remember 
that one was to cut down superficial personnel in nmnber. That is 
bureaucracy, they said, and inefficiency. They cut down the number 
of officeworkers and intellectuals doing the same thing. Their desire 
to decrease the number of personnel to increase efficiency was one 
purpose for sending intellectuals to the country. Another was to 
bring culture to the villages. So the intellectuals went to the village. 
They were to help them wipe out illiteracy. And another purpose, the 
third one I remember, was to remold and reform the thoughts of intel- 
lectuals through manual labor. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Xow let us pause for a moment. Do you think that 
the first two reasons which they gave were not the true reasons, but 
were the sugar-coating for the real purpose of sending you intellectuals 
to "corrective" physical labor, w^hich was the third reason ? 

Mr. Huang. Perhaps. I am not so sure which one is more impor- 
tant, but I believe at the time three reasons were quite plausible. 


Mr. NiiTLE. l^ut thoy did not send intellectuals into physical 
labor until this hundred flowers movement disclosed that the 
students did not like conununism and were criticizing it severely. 

Mr. lliAXG. That is true, that is true. 

Mr. NiTixE. What kind of education did you impart by working 
in the fields? 

Mr. IIuAXG. The working manual labor was one of our duties. 

Mr. XiTTLE. How many hours a day did you work at that? 

Mr. Huang. Well, during the "Great Leap Forward," many, many 

Mr. XiTTLE. At least 16 hours a day, I am informed? 

Mv. Huang. Yes. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you feel much like imparting culture after 16 
hours of hard labor? 

Mr. Huang. No, but in addition we had to do that; that was the 
hard part. The peasants were so sleepy. We had to teach them to 
read. They could not absorb very much. That is why it failed. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Do you thinl: that was a serious program ? 

Mr. Huang. I think it Mas a very silly program. It did not teach 
very much. 

Mr. XiTTLE. Do you believe that the real purpose of this program 
was to break you fellows up as intellectuals, as a group, and to dis- 
sipate your influence, to discipline you? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, sure. Discipline is one of the things they said, 
thought remolding. 

Mr. NiTFLE. This is our information, but I w^ant to know whether 
this is correct. 

Mr. Huang. This is correct. They were there to reform our 

Mr. NiTTLE. AVere you also required to work in the coimnune 
system ? 

Mr. Huang. That is right. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Were Chinese herded into dormitories on fanns, hus- 
l)ands separated from wives, and children sent to nursery schools? 
Is that a correct description ( 

Mr. Huang. That part of it, the children, during the day, were 

Mr. NiTTLE. You had to eat in mass kitchens ? 

]\Ir. Huang. Eating at the kitchen is true, and sending the children 
to the nursery schools; but separating the family, in my part, I did 
not observe. 

Mr. NiTTLE. In your area you did not witness that? 

Mr. Huang. No. They had their own family little huts, still the 

Mr. NiTTLE. Were they creating dormitories as time went on? 

Mr. Huang. I did not see that. 

Mr. NiTTLE. You did not see that in your commune? 

Mr. Huang. No, I did not. That was in 1958. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Were people happy with this kind of existence? 

Mr. Huang. Well, different — it fluctuates. And during that one 
year, at the time of the end reports were made about the great 
achievements, they called it, of the "Great Leap Forward," so much 
food produced. "We have solved the worst food problem in all 
history," and then the majority were very happy and they ate very 
much, too. 


But then later, reports came to readjust, as I say. The figures 
were not so very much, cut clown to half. The people's rations were 
much less to eat, and so forth. Then they were not so happy. It 
fluctuates, but even at that period, 1959, 1 didn't see serious discontent 
among the peasants, I did not observe. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did you find it in the city ? 

Mr. Huang. In the city, not — I don't observe ver^^ much among 
the inhabitants of the city, but in the schools, this, I think, can be 
true. My feelings, the intellectuals again learned one lesson, that is, 
if you are against in word or in action, against the party, you will 
suffer from various punishments. 

Finally, the pro-rightists were put into definite categories, some 
first degree, some second, some third, some fourth degree. The 
severe ones, their salaries were cut, and they were sent to the coimtry 
for remolding their thoughts for a longer period. We were not in 
the same category, you see. We were sent there, you see, not as right- 
ists; we were sent there to be re-educated, as I say. 

Mr. NiTTLE. I see. 

Mr. Huang. And the rightists as a sort of punishment. 

Mr. NiTTLE. What effect did this treatment have upon the intellec- 
tuals you personally knew ? 

Mr, Huang. That is one of the things which is bad in Communist 
China. You could not communicate sincerely, I mean among your 
friends. Practically, you didn't have friends as such are under- 
stood in this country. For instance, in America, if once you have a 
friend, two persons, three people become friends, you are so intimate 
that you tell each other everything you do or you think, right or 
wrong, you trust each other ; but there, there was only the party line 
to follow. You don't know when you will be criticized. I have 
been criticized many times. One of the things that before they — 
let us see, '59, or something, at one time, I discussed it with one of 
my friends. At the time, I considered it wasn't impossible to have 
friendship. One of the teachers, anyway, we both talked freely 
and we enjoyed each other's company very much, so I told him one 
thing I never dared to tell even my wife. I said, "My feeling is that 
although the Communist Party constantly talks about democratic 
centralism and iimer-party democracy, my feeling is that there is 
no real democracy inside this party." I said that to him. But later 
he told the party, and I was criticized. So at the time, in 1959, 1 was 
criticized, "Wliere you say there is no democracy in the party, you 
come in and join us, and you will find out we have full democracy." 

I became a little, well, annoyed by that. You see, that kind of 
thing. Therefore, you cannot say you have real friends. You can 
say we have comradeship, but that means you always talk and act 
in the same party line. But no more than that, not more. 

Mr. NiTTLE. We shall have to terminate soon, even though there are 
many other things of value you could tell us. 

Mr. Huang, would you tell us of the assignments you received to 
the commmie system in the course of this hundred flower movement ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, I have related the part in the agriculture, manual 
labor in agriculture. I am not quite clear. 

Mr. NiTTLE. You were a teacher at the institute ? 

Mr. Huang. Altogether, 15 months. 


Mr. NiTTLE. And then apparently you were taken off that assif^i- 
ment and ordered to perform certain manual work in connection with 
a smelter operation ? 

Mv. IIuAXG. Yes, that is quite rijrht. 

Mr. X1TTI.E. And ao;ricultural labor? 

Mr. IIuAXG. Altogether 15 months. Twelve months in the villages, 
workiniT on a vejretable-fjrowinjr farm, and the 3 additional months 
in what they call an iron smelter ])lant. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Would you tell about both? What assi<Tnment did 
you first receive ? 

Mr. Huang. It would take very much time. 

First, we went to the villages. At the time, it was advanced agri- 
cultural cooperative, in November 1957. 

We worked just manual labor. We didn't do much else. Then we 
taught the literacy classes, helping those peasants to learn to read 
and write, and we participated sometimes in discussions with the 
peasants on the farm problems, but most of the time, we just did 
manual labor, all sorts of manual labor connected with vegetable 
growing, from beginning to end. 

Mr. NiTTLE. How many hours were you employed at that ? 

Mr. Huang. Well, at the beginning, there were few. Most — it was 
winter, about 4 or 5 hours a day at the beginning. The "'Great 
Leap Forward" had not started yet. It was about 5 hours a day, 
and we had quite enough sleep, but then afterwards we would spend 
quite a lot of time sitting together with the peasants and talking about 
the farm problems, which we at the time didn't understand much. 

But later, in 1958, the "Great Leap Forward'' was started. Then 
a great increase of hibor hours was carried out. Often, we had to 
work roughly 12, 16 hours a day. But sometimes when there was 
some specific task to tackle, we worked just right through the night 
and got a few hours' sleep the next day when the task was finished ; 
for instance, some irrigation project which had to be accomplished 
within certain limited time. And then after work, we had to go 
to organized cultural activities, teach the peasant children singing, 
dancing, when they came back from school, and we organized literacy 
classes to teach older peasants — a few were young, too, but mostly 
old peasants — to read. Special little books for learning Chinese 
characters were printed. 

But then at the time of the literacy classes, we were so tired, both 
teachers and the students, pupils were tired, very tired, sometimes we 
couldn't even hold our eyelids open, so that efficiency was poor, of 
course, and the results were very poor. 

They sometimes made a great effort to memorize some few hundred 
characters, but because of the lack of continuation and more practice, 
they would forget quickly. 

Mr. NiTixE. What was the reason for your transfer to the iron 
furnaces ? 

Mr. Huang. That is a continuation of the whole program. Send- 
ing intellectuals to the countiyside, the whole process, but after we 
had stayed a whole year in the countryside, villages, growing vege- 
tables, then we were told a new iron smelting plant was just started 
and they needed us to go there to work, so we were just taken there 
for 3 months. 


Mr, NiTTLE. How many of you were employed at this particular 
iron furnace ? 

Mr, Huang. The rough estimate — they came from a dozen univer- 
sities, colleges around Peking. Each college or university institute 
set up their own brigade, working brigade, living in their own separate 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was this in the area of Peking, or some other city or 
province ? 

Mr. HuAXG. No, not another city. Maybe 50 miles from Peking, 
I am not sure of the distances. We traveled by train for some hours. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Was that a modern steel or iron plant ? 

Mr. HuAXG. It is not modern. Very rudimentary. I think the 
cost, my rough estimate at least, for that 3 months' period of time, 
was a tremendous waste of labor and material, but very little result, 
up to the time I left; but later, they might have come to something 
marvelous. I don't know. But that 3 months, the things I saw there, 
the work carried out, I think I can say this : Almost everybody there 
worked terribly hard, and with quite great enthusiasm, because of 
their hopes based upon the accomplishment they might achieve. They 
were trying to produce — I remember one slogan — to produce 1,800 
million tons of steel that year in the country — the whole country — so 
everybody was aroused by the party to participate in this great steel- 
making movement. 

Mr. XiTTLE. How large was the furnace you were operating? 

Mr. Huang. Oh, I am going into that. But when we got there, of 
course, I had no knowledge of steelmaking, I never saw any. But 
when we got there, I saw already built 52 — they had numbers painted 
on what they call these ? Furnaces ? Very small, perhaps about 3 to 
5 meters high, with bricks, in rows. 

But the thing is that at first I did not know. Of course, now I 
realize very clearly tlie fallacy in that project, because those were 
furnaces that were built with bricks by high school students who had 
no knowledge whatsoever what steelmaking was. They were given 
a few instructions as to the shape, size, and roughly of the form of 
the furnaces. That is fantastic. And tliese higli school students and 
some college students were encouraged by this Communist spirit, the 
Communist spirit of boldness : "If you want to do something," they 
say, "you can accomplish it.'' So you want to make steel, all right, you 
can. So that is what eveiwbody believed, was persuaded to believe 

So when we got there, these 50 stove-like furnaces were built, but 
I noticed alreadv at the time, as I looked around, several of them 

1 "^ • 

were cracked. I did not loiow at the time that that could not make 
steel. But later, of course, I learned, before I left the place, none of 
those 50 furnaces could make any steel. 

It is impossible. How could they? Because any amoimt of heat 
would just make them crack. They were toys. So this fallacy shows 
the fantastic unscientific line of steelmaking, and the whole "Great 
Leap Forward," perhaps, propagated by the Communist Party, to 
make steel. 

So, according to my observation, very little results were produced 
by the steelmaking. 


Later, a couple of months later, they difl, I think, abandon those 
little stoves and they built medium-sized ones in anotlier area which 
produced some iron. I saw it piled up, maybe a few tons. 

But the tremendous waste of labor and e(UK'ati(m — because thou- 
sands of students, workers, carpenters, and even soldiers were trans- 
ported to work. We did everything. 

"We mined, too, but the mining, of course, was just like a ])rimitive 
method. First, we used a chisel to dig, very strenuously, small holes, 
sometimes half a meter deep, into the rocks, the iron ore rocks, and 
then we would put a charge in it and blow it up into pieces; then we 
would collect them, ■very, very strenuous job, but many people w^ere 
employed to do that, but veiy little steel. At least, at the time I 
left, I saw very few piles of iron. I don't know whether they were 
of good quality or not, I cannot tell, but they cost a tremendous 
amount of time, energy, labor, material. 

Mr. XiTTLE. How long were you at that work? 

Mr, Huang. Just 3 months. 

Mr. NiTTLE. "\Mien you were taken off that work, was there any 
change in the plan ? 

Mr. Huang. They were going to enlarge it, modernize it, as they 
say, but I never revisited that place. 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did they continue employing intellectuals at manual 

Mr. Huang, I heard, when we left, another group from our school 
changed, went there to take our place, other new" cadres to take our 

I heard that is the way they do, replacement. A group worked for 
a few months, then were replaced by a new group from their own 
institution or school. That again is a fallacy, because it took a lot of 
time to learn those things. I saw as we got into the work, we learned 
a little of something, then we left. A fresh group were there. So 
always, new workers, inexperienced, were busy, hard working there, 
but with very little result. That is also a fallacy of this whole proj- 
ect. This extends, too, to our working the farms. The same thing. 
At first, of course, it w\as very hard, but we became interested; by 
and by, we became interested in farm work and really liked to learn 
something and we learned from the peasants, we made friends with 
them; they really taught us how to grow" this plant, what method to 
use, how to till tlie field, what seeds to use, we learned a rudimentary 
of something. 

But as we learned something, we were sent away, a fresh group 
came in our place, so always, they were inexperienced. Therefore, 
actually, the help the intellectuals rendered to the peasants was not 

Mr. NiTTLE. Did this labor render the intellectuals more docile? 
Did they cease their so-called anti-party actions? 

Mr. Huang. I think that was the result. 

Mr. NiTTLE. This cooled them off a bit? 

Mr. Huang. Yes, when they worked there and for different rea- 
sons, I think with different individuals it is not alw^ays the same, but 
the main trend is — at least superficially — the intellectuals became 
more docile, and they perhaps — my judgment they learned once more, 


now if you want to criticize the party out of bounds, out of limits, 
you will get your punishment, due punishment. 

That is my impression. 

Mr. NiTTLE. I believe that covers it. 

Mr. Huang. I don't know. I could write three volumes. 

Mr. NiTTLE. I know you could. 

Mr. Huang. It depends on the detail. 

Mr. NiTTLE. We cannot hold you any longer. Thank you. 

Mr. Huang. Thank you again. 

( Witness excused. ) 

(Whereupon, at 1:20 p.m. Friday, May 25, 1962, the committee 
was recessed subject to the call of the Chair.) 




Ball, Moya 1178 

Blossom, Frederick A llOn, 1178-1184, 1186 

Chiang Kai-shek 1173 

Chi-(>hou Huang 11G5-11G8, 11()0-1234 (testimony) 

Chou i:n-lai 1222, 1228 

Chu Teh 1181 

Fan Chien-ya 1187-1191 

Hsaio Chien-chou 1173, 1174, 1177, 1178, 1182 

Liu Li-tan 1193 

Liu Shao-eh'i 11!)4 

Lung Chang King 1185, 118(), 1189, 1190 

Mae Tse-tung 1166, 1222 

Marx, Karl 1202 

Nearing, Scott 1165, 1174-1180, 1190 

Russell, Maud 1165, 1182-1187, 1189 

Shu Hsiu-wen 1192 

Sonedley, Agnes 1181, 1182 

Sorge (Richard) (alias Johnson) 1181 

Wallace, Henry A 1165, 1207 


Jen Min Jih Pao (People's Daily, Peking, China) 1225,1226 

People's Daily, The (See Jen Min Jih Pao.) 

Chinese Commercial Daily. (See Hua Shang Pao.) 

Hua Shang Pao (Chinese Commercial Daily, Hong Kong) 1185, 1187, 1188 


American Friends of Russian Freedom (AFRF) 1216,1219 

China House 1186 

Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy 1182 

Communist Party, China 1166,1167 

Communist Party, Soviet Union : 

Congresses : 

Twenty-first Congress, January 27-February 5, 1959 (Moscow)— 1202 
Foreign Language Institute (Peking, China) ___ 1166,1167,1204,1206,1208,1210 

General Gordon (steamship) 1186 

Johns Hopkins University (Baltimore, Md.) 1165,1170,1171 

North China Peoples Revolutionary University ' 1166, 1195, 1197, 1207 

Progressive Party 1165, 1207 

St. John's University (Shanghai, China) 1205 

University of Baghdad (Iraq) 1203 

Institute of Languages 1168, 1210 

University of Maryland (College Park, Md.) 1165,1171,1173 

University of Peking (Peking, China) 1222 

Young Communist League, China (Youth League) 1219 

Young Progressives of America 1165, 1176, 1179 

Youth League (China). {See Young Communist League, China.) 

Yunnan University (Yunnan Province, China) 1170 

1 Appears as North China University of the Peoples Revolution. 




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