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Full text of "Investigation of communist activities in the Pacific Northwest area. Hearings"

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INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA— Part 1 



,*'» 



HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 



EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



OCTOBER 3, 1952 ; MARCH 16, MAY 28, JUNE 2, AND 9, 1954 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
INCLUDING INDEX 




UNITED STATES ^ 



GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
48069 WASHINGTON : 1954 



( onRLlC 1 



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pf5. I-II 

Boston Public Li'orary 
Superintendent of Documents 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Repeesentatives 

HAROLD H. VELDB, Illinois, Chairman 

BERNARD W, KEARNEY, New York FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania 

DONALD L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri 

KIT CLARDY, Michigan CLYDE DOYLE, California 

GORDON H. SCHBRER, Ohio JAMES B. FRAZIER, Je., Tennessee 

Robert L. Kdnzig, Counsel 

Frank S. Tavknner, Jr., Counsel 

Thomas W. Beale, St., Chief Clerk 

Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 

Courtney E. Owens, Chief Investigator 

II 



CONTENTS 



October 3, 1952, testimony of— Page 

Eugene Kenneth McClaskey 5965 

March 16, 1954, testimony of — 

Charles David Blodgett — 5973 

May 28, 1954, testimony of— 

Howard Costigan . 5975 

Elizabeth Boggs Cohen 5999 

Leonard Basil Wildman 6013 

June 2, 1954, testimony of — 

Stanley Williams Moore 6038 

June 9, 1954, testimony of — 

Marjorie Jean Owen 6049 

Index i 

m 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides: 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
* *' « * * « « 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 
• « * « « • « 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
***** * 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks 
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and 
Uii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any necessary 
remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 83D CONGRESS 
House Resolution 5, January 3, 1953 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con- 
gress, the following standing committees: 

******* 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 

VI 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NOETHWEST AREA— Part 1 



FRIDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1952 

United States House of Representatives, 

SuBcoMMrrrEE of the Committee 

ON Un-American AcrnATTiES, 

Los Angeles^ Calif, 

executive session ^ 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to call in room 931, Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel, Hollywood, 
Calif., at 5 : 20 p. m., Hon. John S. Wood (chairman), presiding. 

Committee member present: Representative John S. Wood. 

Staff member present: Thomas W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel. 

Mr. Wood. We will proceed. 

Mr. McClaskey, do you solemnly swear the evidence you shall give 
this subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF EUGENE KENNETH McCLASKEY 

Mr. Beale. Will you state your name, please ? 

Mr. McClaskey. My name is Eugene Kenneth McClaskey. 

Mr. Beale. Where do you presently reside ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I presently reside at Route 5, Box 609-A, Everett, 
Wash. 

Mr. Beale. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I was born in Albion, Wash., on June 5, 1910. 

Mr. Beale. Would you give a brief summary of your educational 
background ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I was educated in the public schools of Pullman, 
Wash., going through grade school and high school there. I finished 
high school in 1928, and enrolled in the State College in Washington. 

I took a B. a. degree with honors in English literature at the State 
College of Washington in 1933. 

The following academic year, 1933-34, 1 held a teaching fellowship 
in English literature at the State College of Washington, and worked 
part time for my master's degree in that subject. 

In December of 1933, I was awarded a Rhodes scholarship; and 
pursuant to that scholarship, I entered Exeter College, Oxford Uni- 
versity, in Oxford, England. 

1 Released by the committee at time of printing due to the pertinency of subject to this 
series of hearings. 

5965 



5966 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

In 1936, I was awarded a third class honors degree in modern 
economics, political science and theory, and philosophy. 

During the 1936-37 academic year, I worked for a diploma degree 
in public administration at Oxford University, and I was awarded 
the diploma at the end of that academic year. 

Mr. Beale. That would be June 1937? 

Mr. McClaskey. As near as I can recall, sir. 

Mr. Beale. Does that complete your formal education ? 

Mr. McClaskey. Yes ; except for the school of experience. 

Mr. Beale. ^^Tien did you return to the United States ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I returned to the United States, as I best recall it, 
in July of 1937. 

Mr. Beale. Where were you first employed after completing your 
schooling ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I was first employed, after completing my school- 
ing, by the National Labor Relations Board, on September 13, 1937, 
in the Board's 19th regional office in Seattle, Wash. 

Mr. Beale. "WTiat was the title of your position, or the grade of 
your position ? 

Mr. McClaskey. The title and grade of my entering position with 
the Board was field examiner, CAF-5. 

Mr. Beale. You remained with the National Labor Relations Board 
ever since ? 

Mr. McClaskey. Since that date, I have been continuously em- 
ployed by the National Labor Relations Board except for about a 
2-year-and-3-month period when I was in the United States Army. 

Mr. Beale. What is the title and grade of your present position ? 

Mr. McClaskey. The present title and grade of my position is that 
of labor-management relations examiner, chief labor-management 
relations examiner. That is grade GS-13. 

Mr. Beale. Mr. McClaskey, the committee has information to the 
effect that while you were a student at Oxford University, you became 
affiliated with the Communist Party of England. Is that informa- 
tion correct? 

Mr. McClaskey. That information is correct, and I have previously 
volunteered it to you. 

Mr. Beale. Would you mind stating, in your own words, how you 
became affiliated with the Communist Party of England ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I was originally solicited for membership in the 
Communist Party of Great Britain by English Oxford University 
students with whom I was associated during that period. I had, as 
was previously stated, changed courses from English literature to 
that of political science and economics. Having done so, I endeavored 
to complete 3 years' work in 2 years for my degree. I realize now that 
in the course of doing that I was under considerable mental and emo- 
tional strain, and did suffer greatly from mental indigestion. 

I joined, as nearly as I can recall, because in that state of emotional 
and mental upset, I was rather desperately seeking, I suppose, "pat" 
answers and certainties which my studies were not giving me in those 
fields. 

Also, the world situation at that time, being a year before the Cham- 
berlain-Munich situation, did not seem to me to be one which gave 
one confidence in the future. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5967 

I did not find that certainty through membership in the party, and 
in fact, I found myself rebelling against the autocracy, so far as ideas 
and things of the mind were concerned. 

Mr. Beale. Do you recall the date of this affiliation ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I do not, exactly, but to the best of my recollec- 
tion it took place roughly in December of 1936 or January of 1937. 

Mr. Beale. How long did you remain a member of the Communist 
Party of England? 

Mr. McClaskey. I remained a member of the party until the date 
upon which I left England for the Continent before returning to 
the United States. 

Mr. Beale. Since returning to the United States, have you been 
affiliated in any manner with the Communist Party in the United 
States? 

Mr. McClaskey. Since returning to the United States, I have not 
affiliated or reaffiliated with the Communist Party of the United 
States, nor have I sought it or its functionaries out at any time. 

Mr. Beale. Have you ever been affiliated with any Communist- 
front Organizations in the United States ? Have you ever been, affil- 
iated with any organization designated by the Attorney General of 
the United States or by the Committee on Un-American Activities 
of the House of Representatives, as a Communist-front organization ? 

Mr. McClaskey. So far as I know, I have been briefly associated, 
and not affiliated, with one such organization, namely, the Seattle 
Labor School. 

Mr. Beale. During what period of time were you associated with 
the Seattle Labor School ? 

Mr. McClaskey. Between — and again, as nearly as I can now re- 
call — January and February of 1946. 

Mr. Beale. In what connection ? 

Mr. McClaseley. I was asked by someone, whom I am certain is 
not a Communist, if I would teach a course in labor history at the 
Seattle Labor School. Not realizing, when requested to do so. that 
the organization was Communist affiliated or dominated, I agreed to 
teach such an 8-week course. 

Mr. Beale. Did you teach the course ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I taught, I think, 4 lessons in that course, and then 
resigned my position and I did not continue with it, and have had no 
connection whatsoever with that school since. 

Mr. Beale. What caused you to sever your connection with the 
school ? 

Mr. McClaskey. Shortly after I agreed to teach the course, James 
Farmer, at that time an official of the Seattle Chapter, American 
Newspaper Guild, called me and asked me what I was doing with my 
name appearing on the school's schedule. He went on to say that the 
school was controlled and dominated by the Commies in that area, 
and asked me if it was not a fact that I was told what I should teach 
in the particular course. I told him that such was not the case ; that 
I had demanded and had been given absolute say as to the content of 
the course, 

I went on to tell Farmer that while I had suggested that the stu- 
dents should, in their reading, consult Anthony Bimba's History of 
the American Labor Movement, that I had told them that that par- 



5968 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

ticular book had a definite Communist slant which I did not myself 
subscribe to ; and that I subscribed, in my approach to the history of 
the American labor movement, to that put forth by Prof. John R. 
Commons of the University of Wisconsin. 

I became alarmed at the charges made by Mr. Farmer, and made 
a private investigation of my own concerning the school and who was 
behind it. While I did not know any of the founders to be Commu- 
nists, many of them had been accused of being members of the party, 
and I decided to sever my connections at that time, because I did not 
want anything to do with anything of that kind. I rather quietly re- 
signed from the so-called faculty of that school, with the excuse, which 
was partly true, that pressure of my work made it impossible for me 
to continue. I did not sound off, as did some other people, against 
the school later, because to do so would create professional difficulties, 
so far as my work was concerned, and would lessen my effectiveness 
in dealing with the unions in the area of our office. 

Mr. Beale. Who solicited you to teach the course at the Seattle 
Labor School? 

Mr. McClaskey. I am not certain at this time. 

Mr. Beale. Well, you were certain enough to say that it was a man 
that you knew wasn't a Communist. 

Mr. McClaskey. I am coming along, sir. I am not absolutely cer- 
tain, but I believe that it was a long-time personal friend of mine, a 
Raymond Adams, who, if it was he, I was certain then was not a Com- 
munist, and I know definitely now, or at any event believe, that he 
is not. 

Mr. Beale. What was Mr. Adams' connection with the Seattle 
Labor School? 

Mr. McClaskey. A very brief one, also. He, like I, was interested 
in workers' education, and believed, as I did, that much could be done 
to improve labor relations by proper labor-adult education. 

May I summarize what I have to say, and then I will leave it up 
to you? 

Mr. Beale. I think this ought to be on the record and, you see, it is 
very pertinent. 

Mr. McClaskey. I wanted it on. 

I became interested at Oxford University in the field of labor and 
adult education through work which was being done at Ruskin Col- 
lege at Oxford. In 1942, or early 1943, a Dr. Nostrand and a Linden 
Mander — this may be a little garbled, but it is close — at the University 
of Washington, learned through my wife, who was a teaching associate 
at the university at that time, that I was interested in labor education. 
Drs. Nostrand and Mander were at that time associated with the ex- 
tension department of the university, and it developed that they were 
interested, through cooperation with labor unions and with manage- 
ment, in setting up labor education courses throughout western Wash- 
ington under the auspices of the university extension department. 

Dr. Mander, through my wife, invited me to lunch to ascertain what, 
if anything, I could do to assist him in this project of his, so far as 
soliciting the support of prominent and influential figures in the 
Seattle and vicinity labor movement. 

At his behest, t called or personally talked to many of the most 
prominent and influential leaders in Seattle and Washington labor, to 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5969 

ascertain whether or not they were interested in such a program; 
whether or not they would support it ; and what types of courses they 
thought would be most beneficial to their membership, shop stewards, 
and local union officials. 

I discovered a very enthusiastic response to my inquiries, and men 
like Roy Atkinson, Washington State CIO regional director, and Ed 
Weston, president of the Washington State Federation of Labor, AFL, 
indicated they would support, if necessary, financially such a pro- 
gram. 

I reported back to the university people, who said they would carry 
the matter on up through channels. 

Exactly nothing came of this ambitious program, even though I had 
kindled very considerable interest, I think, generally in the labor 
movement. It is my belief that my being asked later to teach at the 
Seattle Labor School came as a result of what I had done endeavoring 
to assist the university those 2 or 3 years earlier. 

Having discovered, to my own satisfaction, that the labor school was 
not what it claimed to be, and was very possibly a dangerous organ- 
ization, I later, with other management and labor officials, was, I be- 
lieve, instrumental in getting the University of Washington to set up 
an Institute of Industrial Relations somewhat similar to that exist- 
ing in the University of California chain of universities or schools. 

I would like to say only this, in respect to this, additionally, in re- 
spect to this subject: that after the University of Washington Insti- 
tute of Industrial Relations was set up, I was requested by the presi- 
dent of the University of Washington, Dr. Raymond Allen, to serve on 
the State and community advisory committee for the Institute of In- 
dustrial Relations, and I am presently serving on that committee. 

Mr. Beale. Let us get back to the question I asked you about Ray- 
mond Adams, which I don't think you completely answered. 

I asked you what was the official connection of Raymond Adams 
with the Seattle Labor School ? 

Mr. McClaskey. My recollection is that his name, or he was one of 
a so-called board of directors. He told me later, as did some others 
whose names appeared on the typical letterhead, that they had been 
brought into the thing, and they felt under false pretenses and to lend 
a protective or false coloring to that school. Mr. Adams and other 
people in a similar position resigned from the board of directors of 
that school, I am quite certain, not many months after I severed my 
connections with it. 

Mr. Beale. You stated that you recommended the use of Anthony 
Bimba's History of American Labor Movement. Had you ever heard 
of Anthony Bimba before that time ? 

Mr. McClasket. I had read Bimba. I will explain that in this 
way : That there was no intent there on my part to indoctrinate. I 
still believe that there is no one whole truth, and that any thoughtful 
scholar or student should be aware of the thinking and the diverse 
approaches to a subject. I mentioned only Bimba and Commons, and 
there were many other books that I also recommended. 

I wish to point out that I warned the students of the bias ; that I did 
not believe it, to watch out for it, but that that was an approach. 

Mr. Beale. You said that you had heard of Anthony Bimba before 
then. Did you hear that Anthony Bimba was a functionary of the 
Communist Party ? 



5970 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. ISIcClaskey. No. But when I read the book — and I read it in 
England at the recommendation of a tutor in the subject of labor rela- 
tions — I was aware that, as I told these six students, incidentally, that 
that was at least then the party line and interpretation, as far as the 
history of the American labor movement was concerned. 

Mr. Beale. Now, you stated earlier that you made an investigation 
of your own to find out who was behind the school. "What was the 
result of that independent investigation, and who did you determine 
was behind the school ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I did not determine completely to my satisfaction 
who was behind it. I consulted with my friends, particularly in the 
labor movement, who were then and are now avowed anti-Commu- 
nists. They warned me about it, and they mentioned names of cer- 
tain people who they at that time accused of being Communists. 

Mr. Beale. Who were those people ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I don't, I am afraid, recall all of them. 

Mr. Beale. Whom do you recall ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I will give you some, just as quickly as I get 
straightened out on it. 

I was told that Eddie E. Tangen, T-a-n-g-e-n, with the Marine Cooks 
and Stewards Union, was a Communist. I do not correctly or I do 
not absolutely remember, but it seems to me that William Pennock 
was associated in some capacity with that school. 

There were others whom I do not know or knew very little, who were 
accused of being Communists, but whom I did not know to be Com- 
munists. 

It looked sufficiently bad to me along that line so that I pulled out 
of it. 

Mr. Beale. Did your supervisor at the National Labor Relations 
Board in Seattle know of your connection with the Seattle Labor 
School ? 

Mr. McClaskey. He did. 

Mr. Beale. Who was the director of the school ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I do not now recall his name. I might say, how- 
ever, that I became immediately suspicious of him. He seemed to be 
the typical man to be placed in what that school finally turned out to 
be, although as I say, he did not seek to indoctrinate me, nor did he 
request that I indoctrinate anyone or teach any certain line. 

Mr. Beale. You mentioned the name of William Pennock. Do you 
know whether William Pennock was affiliated with the Washington 
Commonwealth Federation ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I never was. 

Mr. Beale. Were you ever affiliated with that organization ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I never was. 

Mr. Beale. WTiat is the present status of the Seattle Labor School ? 

Mr. McClaskey. It no longer exists, to the best of my knowledge. 
I have not followed it closely, I assure you. 

Mr. Beale. Did it precede or succeed the Pacific Northwest Labor 
School? 

Mr. McClaskey. It preceded it. 

Mr. Beale. Isn't it a matter of fact, or do you know, that at the 
time the Seattle Labor School was listed by the Attorney General as a 
Communist organization, that they changed the name of it to the 
Pacific Northwest Labor School? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5971 

Mr. McClasket. I would not know that. I was out of my brief as- 
sociation with the first school long before the Attorney General pro- 
scribed it. 

Mr. Beale. Do you know anything about the present status of the 
Pacific Northwest Labor School ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I know nothing. If it is in existence, I would be 
surprised. I haven't heard anything of it for years, except in the 
papers and articles to the effect that the Attorney General proscribed 
it ; and I think, without having proof again, the way we were talking 
last night, I think the Attorney General was right on that school. 

Mr. Beale. Is the Seattle Labor School the only organization of a 
questionable character that you have ever been associated or affiliated 
or connected with ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I had another brief association with an organiza- 
tion which I do not know to have been proscribed by the Attorney 
General. 

Mr. Beale. What is the name of the organization ? 

Mr. McClaskey. That organization was the Independent [Citi- 
zens'] Committee of the Arts, Sciences and Professions. 

Mr. Beale. When did you affiliate with that organization? 

Mr. McClaskey. I did not affiliate with it. 

Mr. Beale. Wliat was your connection with it ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I attended no more than two meetings ; one a meet- 
ing at the Olympic Hotel, which was addressed by James Roosevelt 
from this State; and another one presided over, I believe, by Prof. 
Joseph Harrison of the university, held at the Women's Century Club 
in Seattle. 

Mr. Beale. Who invited you to those meetings ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I believe that I attended those meetings out of 
curiosity. 

Mr. Beale. Mr. Wheeler, do you have any questions you want to 
ask the witness ? 

Mr. Wheeler. I have no questions. 

Mr. McClaskey. May I say something more on this, even at the risk 
of seeming to protest too much ? 

Mr. Beale. If it is pertinent to the inquiry, you certainly may 
say it. 

Mr. McClaskey. I would like to say only this : That, again, I noted 
that this same William Pennock appeared to be quite active in this 
organization, and I, personally, cried "enough." 

Mr. Beale. Where was this Seattle Labor School located ? 

Mr. McClaskey. During my brief association with it, it occupied 
space in the old Central School building of the Seattle public schools. 
I am told that sometime after I left it, they left the Central School, 
and I don't know where they went. 

Mr. Beale. Did you know a woman by the name of Florence Bean 
James, in connection with the Seattle Labor School ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I did not. I am aware of who she is, and I have 
seen her professioally on the stage, but that, many years ago. 

Mr. Beale. Did you know Prof. Ralph Gundlach ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I think that I met Gundlach once or twice at big 
parties. 

Mr. Beale. Did you know him as a member of the board of directors 
of the Seattle Labor School ? 



6972 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. McClasket. I never saw him or talked with him in that capac- 
ity, although I recall, I think, seeing his name on the letterhead. I 
had no conversation with him. 

I might say, if I am on the record, that Gundlach's name on the let- 
terhead was another one of the things which impelled me to resign. 

Mr. Beale. Did you know a man by the name of Albert Ottenheimer, 
who taught a course at the Seattle Labor School ? 

Mr. McClaskey. I have never known him, nor was I aware that 
he taught a course at the school. 

Of uie very few teachers that I knew, I knew one who was not, I am 
convinced, a member of the party, and I think that there were others 
who were roped in the way I was. 

Mr. Beale. That is all. 

(Whereupon, at 6 : 05 p. m., the executive session was concluded.) 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NOETHWEST AKEA— Part 1 



TUESDAY, MARCH 16, 1964 

United States House of Kepresentatives, 

Subcommittee of Committee on 

Un-American Activities, 

Chicago, HI. 
executive session* 

The subcommittee of the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities met, pursuant to call, at 11 a. m., in room 1707, LaSalle 
Hotel, Chicago, 111., the Honorable Harold H. Velde (chairman) 
presiding. 

Committee member present: Representative Harold H. Velde, 
chairman. 

Staff members present: W. Jackson Jones, committee investigator; 
Dolores Anderson, reporter. 

Mr. Velde. Will you raise youj right hand to be sworn, please? 

In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee, 
do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Blodgett. I do. 

Mr. Velde. I have appointed myself as a subcommittee of one to 
hear your executive testimony today. Mr. Jones will do the ques- 
tioning in place of our counsel, since counsel is busy on another case. 

You may proceed, Mr. Jones. 

Mr. Jones. Mr. Blodgett, will you state your fuU name, please? 

TESTIMONY OF CHARLES DAVID BLODGETT 

Mr. Blodgett. Charles David Blodgett. 

Mr. Jones. In your executive statement to the committee in 
August of 1953, you referred to one Moore as being in attendance at 
a meeting of the Communist Political Affaks Committee of Alameda 
County, Calif. In this executive statement you identified the indi- 
vidual as being a professor, I believe. 

Mr. Blodgett. That is correct. 

Mr. Jones. Subsequent investigation by the committee staff reveals 
that this individual may be the Stanley Moore who is currently a 
professor at Reed College, Oreg. 

Do you have any information which would clarify or add to this 
investigation? 

Mr. Blodgett. I was personally acquainted with a Mr. Stanley 
Moore during a period of approximately late 1946 to part of 1947, 
when I resided in Alameda, Calif. At that time I was a member of 
the Communist Party, and was employed as a staff writer of the 
Daily People's World, in its Oakland, Calif., office. 

» Released by the committee. 

5973 



5974 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

In my capacity as an employee of the Daily People's World, I was 
required to attend meetings of the Political Affairs Committee of the 
Communist Party of Alameda County, as an observer. These meet- 
ings were closed Communist Party meetings. 

A Mr. Stanley Moore was in attendance at a few of these meetings 
and was identified to me as an instructor in philosophy at the Uni- 
versity of California, Berkeley, Calif., and an official of the professional 
section of the Communist Party of Alameda County. 

As I recall, Mr. Moore left the bay area sometime in 1947 and I 
learned that he had taken a position as a teacher at Reed College in 
Oregon. 

At the time I knew him, I would describe Mr. Stanley Moore as 
having been a man in his middle or late thirties, approximately 5 feet 
11 inches in height, dark straight hair, and of medium build. Wliile 
I cannot state positively that Stanley Moore was a member of the 
Communist Party, his presence at meetings of the political affairs 
committee clearly indicated that he was at that time a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Jones. During your membersliip in the Communist Party in 
Oakland, Calif., did you at any time contact this individual directly 
or have a conversation with him? 

Mr. Blodgett. Yes; I have a definite recollection of a conversation 
with Mr. Moore, which took place in the Alameda County CIO Build- 
ing on Grand Avenue, in Oakland, Calif., just prior to a meeting of 
the political affairs committee of this Communist Party which was 
being held at that building. 

Mr. Moore, as I recall, complimented me on a story wliich I had 
written and which appeared in the Daily People's World, relating to 
the ownership and control of the Oaldand Tribune by Mr. Joseph R. 
Knowland, father of United States Senator William F. Kjiowland, of 
California. 

I further recall that Mr. Moore provided me with some additional 
information about Mr. KJnowland which he thought might well have 
been included in the feature stor}^ which appeared in the DailyPeople's 
World relating to Mr. Knowland 's connections in Spain. 

Mr. Jones. On behalf of the committee, I want to thank you for 
takmg time off from your many duties to appear before this sub- 
committee today and answer these questions concerninp- your knowl- 
edge of the alleged Communist Party membership of Stanley Moore. 
Because of your extensive laiowledge of the operations and activities 
of the Communist Party in the San Francisco Bay area, and the con- 
tinuing investigations of the committee there, there may arise in the 
future other instances such as these, at which the committee will 
again have to ask your cooperation. At any time such as this, the 
committee will attempt to arrange a convenient time and place for 
the interviews and interrogations. 

I hope this meets vvith your approval and your expressed coopera- 
tion with the committee. 

Mr. Blodgett. I thank you, Mr. Jones, and appreciate the com- 
mittee's attitude in that respect, and I would like to assure you that 
I am ready and willing at all times to cooperate the best I can with 
your and other committees. 

(Whereupon at 11:20 a. m., the executive session adjourned subject 
to the call of the Chair.) 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NOETHWEST AEEA— Part 1 



FRIDAY, MAY 28, 1954 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

ON Un-American Activities, 

Los Angeles, Calif. 
executive session ^ 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to call, at 11 : 15 a. m,, in room 1484, Statler Hotel, Los 
Angeles, Calif, Hon. Clyde Doyle presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Donald L. Jackson 
and Clyde Doyle. 

Staff members present: William A. Wheeler, investigator. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about 
to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God? 

Mr. Costigan. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HOWAED COSTIGAN 

Mr. Wheeler. Will you state your name, please? 

Mr. Costigan. Howard Costigan. 

Mr. Wheeler, Where and when were you born? 

Mr. Costigan. I was born in Seattle, Wash., on January 27, 1904. 

Mr. Wheeler. Tell the committee of your educational background. 

Mr. Costigan. I attended grade school in Seattle and in Everett. I 
attended high school in Seattle, and in Centralia, Wash., from which 
I graduated. I went to Whitman College on a scholarship, and I at- 
tended Western Washington College of Education. 

Mr. Wheeler. And what has been your employment background ? 

Mr. Costigan. Well, a little bit of everything. I worked in the mills 
when I was going to high school. I worked in retail haberdashery 
establishments while I was going to school. After I changed courses in 
college, because of a disagreement with my father over what I should 
take, I learned to cut hair, cut women's hair, and became a member 
of a union, haircutter union. 

I taught school, and coached athletics at Vancouver, Wash. In the 
depression I began to do a progressive radio commentary, and my 
principal source of income from that time, approximately 1934 
through 1945, other than official Government positions, was as a news- 
caster, news editor, radio commentator for radio stations and com- 
mercial sponsors. 

^ Released by the committee. 

5975 
48069— 54— pt. 1 2 



5976 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

I originated, with others, the Commonwealth Builders in 1934, a pro- 
gressive political organization which functioned in the Democratic 
Party and was molded, in many respects, after the employment move- 
ment of California. I became the first and only executive secretary of 
the Commonwealth Builders. And subsequently, when the Washing- 
ton Commonwealth Federation was formed out of the Commonwealth 
Builders and labor and unemployed organizations and other farm 
groups, I became its first executive secretary, and I remained its exec- 
utive secretary until I left the Washington Commonwealth Federa- 
tion in 1940, officially to head up the LaGuardia campaign for Frank- 
lin Roosevelt after it became apparent to me there was a split between 
the Roosevelt policies and those of the Communist Party, which I had 
subsequently joined. If this is a rather lengthy report it is because 
I brought it in because, in a sense, in any economic record it is a very 
small portion and at no time I am sure that not more than $50 or $60 
a month came to me via the Washington Commonwealth Federation. 

Now, in addition, in 1944 I became the head of a division of the 
department of conservation and development of the State of Wash- 
ington, which was known as the division of progress and industry 
development, and which was created out of the old Washington 
State Planning Council and the publicity division of the State, the 
promotion division, on a national level. And I remained in this 
post — I was appointed by the Governor of the State, and subsequent 
to that appointment I became the secretary of Governor Walgren's 
Advisory Commission, which served representatives, top representa- 
tives of industry, labor, agriculture, education, and government. I 
resigned my post in 1946 after I was unable to persuade Governor Wal- 
gren that Hugh DeLacy, if nominated, would subsequently be respon- 
sible for the defeat of Hugh Mitchell, who was running for United 
States Senator, because Harry Cain would campaign on the statewide 
basis against DeLacy and not against Mitchell, and it would cost 
Mitchell, as it subsequently did, his election. 

I ran against DeLacy in 1946, after I resigned my post as director 
of the division of progress and industry development, and from my 
post as executive secretary of the Washington State Advisory Com- 
mission, and after that election was over and Mr. DeLacy was defeated 
by 2 to 1 in the finals by the Republican congressional opponent, I was 
employed to form Pacific Northwest United, a Northwest group em- 
bracing industry, labor, agriculture, and Northwest subdivisions of 
government. Mayor Devin of Seattle was elected its chairman. He 
was elected its treasurer. Mayor Riley of Portland was its chairman, 
and I was its executive secretary. 

When this organization, which could not finally function as it had 
intended to because of differences of opinion between the industrial 
members and agricultural members over freight rate revision, I was 
offered the job, as an assignment, as district director for the United 
Nations Ai)peal for Children, on which post I served, directing the 
United Nations Appeal for Children campaign, which was headed up 
nationally by General Marshall. And I continued there in the Pacific 
Northwest until it was indicated I was to be called before the Canwell 
committee as a witness. And I was fired by the regional director be- 
cause he was frightened at the headlines that my citation committed. 
But I am pleased to note that subsequently the people who had been 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5977 

working most closely with me, many of them genuine conservatives, 
insisted on my being reemployed in the post, and I was reemployed, 
and subsequently was asked to come to California by the western direc- 
tor of the United Nations Appeal for Children to assist in the promo- 
tion of that section of the campaign among the major labor organiza- 
tions, AFL and CIO. 

It was while on this tour of duty that I met Roy Brewer, as I later 
learned for a second time because I had once interviewed him when I 
was doing a series of interviews on radio out of Washington, D. C, 
during the war, and at his persuasion I became the secretary of an 
organization known as the League of Hollywood Voters, made up 
largely of AFL crafts and guilds, members of the crafts and guilds 
in Hollywood who were supporting the Democratic Party, but could 
not support candidates who were soft on the Communist issue in that 
campaign. 

I later worked for the Democratic State central committee as an 
assistant to George Lucky, the vice chairman for the Democratic State 
central committee in southern California. And from there I was again 
reemployed by Mr. Roy Brewer as assistant in the west coast office of 
the lATSE. 

Does that cover what you want to know ? 

Mr. Wheeler. That covers it fine. What is your present residence ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Hollywood. 

Mr. Wheeler. Hollywood, Calif. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. I believe that you mentioned the fact that you joined 
the Communist Party. Could you give us the approximate date this 
occurred ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes. It is an approximate date. But since — as a 
matter of fact, I only saw my card once, and that for a brief instant, 
and I do remember that I signed my name Jack Robinson, and that 
proved not disprophetic as I thought, quicker than Jack Robinson 
being a thought, and I want to get it behind me. It was December of 
1936, I believe, the date that I joined the Communist Party. 

Mr. Wheeler. When did you leave the Communst Party, Mr. Costi- 
gan? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Well, actually I left it spiritually right after the 
Nazi-Soviet pact, and physically I was not in any relationship on a 
friendly basis with members of the Communist Party, whom I had 
known as Communists, from that time on. 

Technically, I would say that I did not really leave the orbit of the 
Communist Party until I had made up my mind that many of those 
who I had thought were as devoted to basic democracy and were anti- 
totalitarian as I was, proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they 
were members of the Communist church instead of the democratic 
faith that I embraced. This, I would place at approximately some 
time early in 1940. I paid no dues at any time to the Communist Party. 
I never attended meetings of units of the party, as such, for training 
purposes. I was co-opted to the district bureau, and the people that I 
knew intimately as Communists I knew intimately only because they 
served on the district bureau of the Communist Party during the years, 
between the years 1937 and 1939. 

Mr. Wheeler. Who was responsible for your actually becoming a 
member of the Communist Party ? 



5978 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Morris Kapport, who I understand was also known 
as Morris Kappaport. But it was spelled R-a-p-p-o-r-t, as I recall it. 
But I believe his true name is spelled R-a-p-p-a-p-o-r-t. 

Mr. Wheeler. "What were the events leading up 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Pardon me. He was the district organizer of the 
Communist Party at that time. 

Mr. Wheeler. Now, what were the events that led up to your be- 
coming a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. There is something that is so typical of the usual 
pattern which I have studied in cases of many others who have become 
members of the Communist Party and who have subsequently left it 
and are therefore now telling the truth, that I suppose it is almost 
unique. I didn't join the Communist Party in the true sense of the 
term. The party joined me. I was what is euphemistically called in a 
political career a success before I ever became a member of the Com- 
munist Party. We had, in 1934, when the Communist Party had no 
weight or influence with the membership or the leadership of the 
Commonwealth Builders 

Mr. Wheeler. You might explain the Commonwealth Builders for 
the record. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. The Commonwealth Builders was an organization 
originally of protesting and mainly unemployed citizens who were dis- 

f leased at the fact that they were expected to go up in front of soup 
itchens w^ien they preferred working with tools to build themselves 
an adequate standard of living, which could not be provided by private 
industry because private industry was not then able to provide employ- 
ment for these individuals, and they decided there needed to be a 
liberalization of the State law to provide a chance for people to co- 
operate in the true pioneering spirit of the Northwest to provide them- 
selves with beds, with shoes, with mattresses even, and so forth. 

They decided that as long as private industry couldn't provide them 
with the chance to do it that it was the duty of the State, and they 
nominated candidates who supported what we call the Economic Se- 
curity Act of 1935 ; and I might add that that act almost passed the 
house of representatives. It got, I believe, 48 votes, and there were 
99 members in the house. And we elected on the Commonwealth 
Builders ticket 41 members of the house of representatives in 1934, 
and I have forgotten the number of the State senate, although it comes 
up in fractions, I think, about a third, if my memory serves me right, a 
third each time. I can't tell you. I know whoever was up from 
western Washington, most of them were part of our ticket, that is, the 
Commonwealth Builders. And about that time I became familiar 
with the CCFC, the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation of 
Canada, and I remember their Regina manifesto, and it occurred to me 
that an organization which would embrace organizations of labor, of 
unemployed citizens, of cultural and educational groups, that were in 
protest against the concept of poverty existing in the midst of po- 
tential plenty, that these people should be welded into one common 
organization and in support of the New Deal ; because we then had a 
governor of the State wlio rode into office with Franklin Roosevelt but 
who, despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of the State had 
supported Roosevelt, was opposed to his policies. 

And so we created an organization that had as its slogan, "Let's 
bring the New Deal to the State of Washington." And, "Let's break 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5979 

down the barn door, kids, to keep the New Deal" ; which we all vowed 
to implement at Olympia, the capital of our State, and it was in 1935 
that the Washington Commonwealth Federation held its first and 
formative convention in Tacoma. I keynoted that convention and 
personally opposed the seating of members of the Communist Party 
in the convention at that time. And that was prior to the Dimitrov 
orientation being entered in the United States by Earl Browder as a 
popular front in support of Franklin Roosevelt. And Marcantonio 
was beating the drum in the East, or the Mid-West, I have forgotten ; 
but I had attended a conference held in Chicago, 111., of the Washing- 
ton Commonwealth Federation, at which time the issue became glar- 
ingly clear to me that the Communist Party, through its manipulated 
puppets, was attempting to create a new party and to rob Franklin 
Roosevelt, wherever possible, of the support he was naturally entitled 
to, and as a result of which I was, for two reasons — ^one, because of the 
Communist Party, because it had from the beginning of the building 
of the Commonwealth Builders accused me of being the Northwest's 
Huey Long, a misleader of the people and social Fascist; and at that 
time Franklin Roosevelt was the greatest social Fascist, according to 
the Communist Party, and I had opposed the Communist Party, and 
the Communist Party was never officially seated at the Common- 
wealth Builders convention, and never, subsequently, was officially 
part of the Commonwealth Builders, or Commonwealth Federation. 

After tlie Dimitrov orientation the party line changed and the party 
no longer attempted to affiliate directly with the Commonwealth 
Builders or subsequently the Commonwealth Federation, but attempt- 
ed to do what I subsequently learned was an excellent job of penetrat- 
ing via trade unions and liberal organizations that were already affili- 
ated with the Commonwealth Federation. 

Mr. Wheeler. I don't think you answered the question. What led 
you to join the Communist Party ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Well, again — the Commonwealth Federation, inas- 
much as in 1936 the Washington Commonwealth Federation had, via 
my broadcast and other means, persuaded a number of the people that 
they should become active in their own community in seeking delega- 
tions to the coming State Democratic convention who would support 
the Commonwealth Federation on major issues, and as a result of this 
appeal the grassroots convention — and they go in for great democracy 
in Washington State. In that 1936 caucus on a statewide basis, we 
elected, as it subsequently turned out at the Aberdeen convention of 
the Democratic Party, a majority pledged to the WCF program. It 
was with the opposition of the Communist Party. That is one mis- 
take Jim Farley made when he said, after the convention had been 
reported to him, "47 States and the Soviet of Washington." There 
were no Communists who were involved. As a matter of fact, this 
was a natural protest of a combination of early American stock who 
probably in their background populace, and probably some had been 
Wobblies,^ and I am sure others had been early Bull "Moosers 

Mr. Wheeler. How did you 

Mr. CosTiGAisr. I am just getting to this point. So what I am say- 
ing, at the Aberdeen convention we had a battle. For example, the 
speech delivered there called Our Party — Has Been Leftwing, I think 

* Name by which members of the iDdustrlal Workers of the World (IWW) were some- 
times known. 



5980 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

was the title — and it was delivered by Warren G. Magnuson, and the 
speech was prepared for Magnuson by me and by Paul Coughlin, 
who was his chief criminal deputy, and that speech was a real liberal 
speech but it was a speech in no sense affected by the thinking of the 
Communist Party. 

After he delivered the keynote address at Aberdeen, we were, I 
think, oh, some hours in getting order in the convention. I remember 
nine gavels were broken during the course of the convention. The 
highway patrol was in and out of the convention 3 or 4 times trying to 
gain order ; and by the time the morning rolled around it was clearly 
indicated that the WCF was in control of the convention, and we were 
making national headlines all over the United States. And as I sub- 
sequently learned, in New York City there was a convention of the- 
Communist Party which was going on concurrently, as I remember 
it, with this meeting, and Browder, who may or may not have just 
gotten off the boat, was bringing before the delegates to the Commu- 
nist Party the information about the Dimitrov orientation and its 
effect upon the American scene. And during the course of his speech 
to the delegates he took time out to praise the work of the "comrades 
from the Pacific Northwest who had anticipated the change in the- 
party line and already had helped to set up the first popular front on 
the North American Continent known as the Washmgton Common- 
wealth Federation." Well, they took the bows. They had nothing 
to do with it. They had been back there with the concept of stabbing 
me in the political back, but they came back from there, as I subse- 
quently learned, dedicated to the idea that they were going to become 
very close and intimate political friends of mine; and so those who 
had been my enemies suddenly began to act as my friends, and I 
thought that was a new light they had seen on their own democratic 
decisions. I was not yet aware that the decision was made in Moscow. 

So, subsequent to that time, the Communists made it clear to me — I 
speak presently of Morris Rapport, who I was much better acquainted 
with — that they were going to do everything in their power to see 
progrressive delegates elected from the member organization of the 
WCF, that meant in labor unions, in cultural groups, in pension 
groups, and so forth ; and as a result of this I found out, not much later 
than that, that most — in fact, I think I once counted it up, 56 mem- 
bers of the WCF executive board out of 72, to my memory, and it is a 
little hazy on these things, were actually members of the Communist 
Party. 

And so it brought to my attention, or it was brought to my atten- 
tion by Mr. Rapport that as long as they were taking me to do nothing 
but what I was going to do anyway, and as long as most of the mem- 
bers of the board were members of the Communist Party, I had better 
be sitting in on the meetings where policies were decided because I could 
help to shape the policies. And as a result, I thought it over and 
decided that inasmuch as it then seemed to me that the popular front, 
which I thought most Americans could and would support at the time, 
was a permanent policy of the Communist Party, and since I had 
found that most of the Communists on our executive board were the 
hardest workers and the most zealous proponents of the program and 
the platform of the Washington Commonwealth Federation at the 
time, that I would be probably better off from the standpoint of the 
WCF program to be a member at the top level of the Communist 



k 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5981 

Party, rather than sitting outside while decisions were made and then 
having to follow these decisions, with which I was, in essence, in any 
sense, at that point, ready to agree in the meetings of the WCF execu- 
tive board, in the meetings of the conventions, and in the meetings of 
the organizations that the WCF influenced, which included the Demo- 
cratic Party not only in the Northwest but in the entire West. 

Mr. Wheeler. They actually gained enough strength where they 
could take over the organization ; isn't that correct ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN". Yes ; they could at the time. 

Mr. Wheeler. When did the name change from Commonwealth 
Builders to Washington Commonwealth Federation ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. I think I reported this, but I will repeat it. The 
change took place in 1935 via a confederation launching convention 
in Tacoma, Wash. 

Mr. Wheeler. Should any importance be attached to the changing 
of the name ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. No ; except that it broadened it ; had nothing to da 
with the Communist Party ; simply the fact that 

Mr. Wheeler. Part of your expansion program ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes. The Commonwealth Builders, as a matter of 
fact, became affiliates of the Commonwealth Federation and labor 
organizations, both AFL and subsequently CIO. 

Mr. Wheeler. When did you first meet Morris Rapport ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Oh, that would be difficult to say, but I suspect I 
met him when we were in conflict in 1935. I mean, he was one of 
those who accused me of being the Huey Long of the Northwest. 

Mr. Wheeler. How did he mend this difference ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. The difference was mended because the party line 
changed, and instead of being a heel to the Communists I became a 
hero to the Communists. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, were you more or less considered as a member 
at large of the Communist Party rather than 

Mr. CosTiGAN. The people I knew best in the party were the people 
who were most important in the political arm of the party in the 
Northwest. As I said, the people I knew as party members primarily, 
with few exceptions, were people who at one time or other were part 
of the district bureau of the Communist Party between the years 1937 
and through about up to the time of the Soviet-Nazi Pact in 1939, 
which would be about September 1939. 

Mr. Wheeler. Who were the other employees of the WCF ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Well, there were a lot of volunteers, but actually in 
the official staffing — there were so many changes from time to time, 
you see, and I was also editor in chief of the Commonwealth Builder, 
which then became the Washington — I think the Interim Common- 
wealth, and finally became the New Dealer before I left the WFC, 
and subsequently became, after the New Dealer, became the New 
World, under direct Communist domination ; and then became asso- 
ciated as the Northwest section, I believe, or Northwest edition of the 
People's World, which is the Communist publication. 

Mr. Wheeler. The inception of the Northwest edition of the North- 
west People's World was in the Commonwealth Builders 

^ Mr. CosTiGAN. After I left the Washington Commonwealth Federa- 
tion did. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well now, who were the others ? 



5982 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. CosTiGAN. I meant to say, Terry Pettus succeeded me as the- 



wait a minute. After I became too busy to be even nominally the 
editor, I had a column in the weekly we put out, which at that time had 
about 20,000 circulation, and the chap who succeeded me as editor after 
the party line had changed, and he had been a functionary of the party, 
was Lowell Wakefield. He became the first editor of the New Dealer, 
I believe. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did you know Lowell Wakefield was a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes, he was a member of the Communist Party. But 
more important than that, he had been an open candidate for the Com- 
munist Party in 1936, I believe, for the city council, and I am sure 
that it was not many years after that that he was byline writer on the 
Daily Worker in New York before he returned to the Pacific Northwest 
to go into business, I believe, in the Alaska herring business with his 
father. Now, I understand he has a deep — he deep-freezes Alaskan 
crab and ships it all over the world; or at least all over the United 
States. 

Mr. Wheeler. Who else? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Jim Cour became an editor of the New Dealer, I 
think it was called at the time. Anyway, it is easily ascertainable by 
the records. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was Jim Cour known to you as a Communist ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes, he was a member of the Communist Party. I 
knew of him, hot because he ever served on the district bureau of the 
party, but because he, I believe, was a member of the WCF. 

Mr. Doyle. What year would that be, approximately ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. That would be — well, I couldn't say. You see, I 
knew Jim for some time, but I think that the time of his membership, 
if I recall it correctly, would be around 1937, 1938. 

Mr. Wheeler. Who else on your immediate staff ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. I am keeping it down to the paper. 

Mr. Wheeler. Yes. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. I believe that Ellen McGrath worked on a voluntary 
basis because she was doing commercial newspaper work at the time. 
But Ellen McGrath, I believe, was acquainted one way or the other on 
the staff of the organization, of the weekly organization, Washington 
Commonwealth Federation, and I think she used a pseudonym that 
she wrote under as a staff writer for the paper, and subsequently she 
did it under a pseudonym for the People's World. Ellen McGrath 
was, of course, a member of the Communist Party. I say "of course,'' 
it was one of those things which we just knew by the relationship. I 
can't specifically say that I ever saw a party card for her ; I am sure 
I didn't. 

Mr. Doyle. Or sat in a meeting with her ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. I sat in some meetings with her on business with the 
WCF, which would have been one way or another involved with 
WCF, but I am sure that we were conscious, jointly conscious, that we 
were on business of both the WCF and the Communist Party. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well now, who were on your immediate staff? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. William Pennock was one of my secretaries. Poor 
Bill, I understand, committed suicide during the course of the Smith 
Act trials in Seattle. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5983 

Mr. Wheeler. You knew Pennock was a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes. As a matter of fact, he was the man who often 
was the person who carried the messages from Morris Eapport to me 
so that we would meet and coffee up and discuss policies. And also, 
you know, Pennock subsequently became a member — after Pennock 
had been my secretary for some time and he aped me, aped my man- 
nerisms, and every time I would make a speech I would find him look- 
ing like a strange character of myself, and I decided he was becoming 
too much of a shadow, so when the opportunity came to form the 
Washington Old Age Pension Union I sent Pennock into the pension 
union, as much to get him out from being my shadow as anything 
else, to become one of its active officers; which he remained until he 
died. 

Now, I had others on the secretarial staff which I suppose you want 
to know something about. Sylvia Keen was a secretary of mine, and 
a member of the Communist Party. I am glad to note that she sub- 
sequently broke hard and strong from the Party. 

I am having a little difficulty remembering the name of another 
secretary. As a matter of fact, Pennock, Sylvia Keen, and the third 
one, whose name I now recall, her name was Irene Borowski — Irene 
was, of course, a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, did you have any non-Communists on either 
your publication or upon the staff ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Well, not at levels of — once the party had penetrated 
the Commonwealth Federation enough to be administratively the 
core of the federation, I would say no. However, there unquestion- 
ably were, since this was a popular front period and no desire on the 
part of the party to exclude from active participation with the WCF 
at the top level of those who would support the party position, either 
consciously or unconsciously. There were unquestionably others who 
were not party members who 

Mr. Wheeler. Was there any deviation from the Communist Party 
line on the part of the Washington Commonwealth Federation ? 

Mr. Costigajst. Never from the time the Commonwealth Federation 
began to be — well, since the time the Communist Party changed its 
position from that of social revolution to antifascism in the demo- 
cratic front until the time when I, among others, broke with the Com- 
monwealth Federation over the Soviet-Nazi Pact. Then some of us 
deviated, but the Commonwealth Federation, as a going organiza- 
tion, didn't deviate. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did not deviate ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. You mentioned Bill Pennock being placed in the 
pension organization of Washington— — 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Washington Old Age Pension Union is what it was 
called. I conceived the Washington Old Age Pension Union on my 
radio broadcast, and it came about something like this : I found there 
was an increasing number of people who had been unemployed during 
the depression who were people who had been long-time residents and 
taxpayers of the State of Washington, who found themselves in a 
position of — I analyzed it once in sort of a satirical way by saying 
that under the current laws in our State affecting old-age assistance, 



5984 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

I think the title was, that a pioneer of this State is expected to burn 
down his house, divorce his wife and drown his children before he is 
eligible for a pension. And I might add that a number of people in my 
State agreed with that point of view. And as a result, although the 
Townsend movement was quite potent in the State of Washington, and 
a number of Republican candidates for various offices were great 
Townsendites, nevertheless, I had come to the conclusion that Town- 
sendism was "pie in the sky" for these people and the intelligent thing 
for them to do was to organize together as political persons and citi- 
zens and associate themselves with the Commonwealth Federation so 
that we could help theni get more adequate social security in our State, 
and they at the same time could break down the barriers which had 
been artifically created between them and trade unions in the State of 
Washington. And as a result of that I launched the pension union. 
But the surprise, which is the fact that the Communist Party had not 
yet caught up with itself in the organization with the support of 
the concept of the Old Age Pension Union. It bracketed it with "Ham 
and Eggs" and with other effluvia of the historical type of fast pension 
promotion, and as a result it took them 8 or 9 months before they would 
accept the idea. And so I suppose again, even though I was a member 
of the Communist Party, I was deviating from the party line until 
Browder and the boys in New York caught up with the procession and 
found out that instead of being something that was untenable, it was 
something really remarkably important, because it is true that among 
those who are aged there is more time to do precinct canvassing, and 
they are usually more zealous when they are seeking security for 
themselves. 

Mr. Wheeler. Who was the head of the pension organization ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Well, I actually was the creator of it, and I was con- 
sidered in several places as the "Young Dr. Townsend," which made 
me retch. I was, I think, honorary cTiairman. I was never on its 
executive board. And as long as I had any weight and influence with 
it, I kept it from taxing the members. I felt that would lead to the 
kind of rackets which in California have become too obvious. 

Mr. Wheeler. What was Homer Huson's position ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. I can't remember what Homer's position was. He 
was, I believe, a member of the executive board of the Old-Age Pension 
Union. Sullivan, who was a member of the State senate, was a presi- 
dent of it. Bill Pennock was its executive secretary. If you are trying 
to ask me if the old-age pension leadership consciously was a part of the 
Communist orbit, I would say no. But I would say that we did find 
very shortly that most of the potent executives who influenced it, with 
the exception of such people as Sullivan and Iluson 

Mr. Wheeler. I am referring here to the testimony of John T. 
Sullivan in the Canwell committee report, 1948, the first report of the 
Un-American Activities Committee in the State of Washington, that 
in 1939, according to Mr. Sullivan, Homer Huson was removed at the 
convention in Tacoma in the spring of 1939 and was replaced by Bill 
Pennock. 

Now, what I am getting at is, it is my understanding Homer Huson 
never was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. As far as I know, he never was a member. And he 
was also the target of the Communist Party operatives, and, as I 
assume, they don't hate their own. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5985 

Mr. Wheeler. It is my understanding that he did an effective, 
honest job in the organization. 

Mr. CosTiGAN". He did within the limits of his ability by reason of 
the fact that he was constantly hemmed in by Communists who had 
more weight and influence within the top apparatus of the Pension 
Union. He did everything in his power to see to it, as far as I recall, 
to see to it that the Pension Union was working consistently on behalf 
of the rank and file members and not for ends other than gaining pen- 
sions for these people. 

Mr. Wheeler. Why was he removed and replaced by Pennock ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Because he was, from the standpoint of the Com- 
munist Party, he was 

Mr. Wheeler. He wasn't agreeable ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. As far as I know he was never a Communist. He 
might have been at one time, but as far as I know he never was ; and it 
was because Huson was opposed to some of the party line 

Mr. Wheeler. He was a stumbling block ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. He was removed because he wouldn't go along with 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Right. 

Mr. Wheeler. You mentioned you were a member of the district 
bureau from 1937 to 1939. Will you relate to the committee the func- 
tion of the district bureau, its influence in the State of Washington 
and the membership, to the best of your recollection? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. To the best of my recollection, the district bureau's 
function was to — it was the highest body of the party in the Pacific 
Northwest because the district bureau embraced the State of Oregon, 
the inland empire, which means the Panhandle of Idaho, and probably 
western Montana, the State of Washington, and the Territory of 
Alaska. The district bureau headquartered at Seattle because that was 
the highest concentration of party divisions in the Pacific Northwest, 
and it was, of course, the key city, being the queen city of the 
Northwest. 

The district bureau policy, the application of the national and, I pre- 
sume, obviously, the international line to the local scene — that is, I am 
speaking of the Northwest scene — and it dealt with all phases of the 
Communist Party activity that were — that is, I am saying all phases, 
but I subsequently learned that some phases of the Communist Party I 
was never familiar with, such as sabotage and possibly espionage — but 
all of the surface activities of the Communist Party were dealt with by 
the district bureau as the top organization of the party. 

Mr. Doyle. At what level was the sabotage and that level of activity 
decided ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Well, this I would never of my own knowledge know, 
because I am not familiar with it, except by hearsay, and also by the 
reading of material that has been published from the findings of the 
various committees of Congress and of the various States attested to 
by individuals under oath about evidences of sabotage. 

Mr. Doyle. Would your experience up in the Northwest indicate 
there were some other groups in authority that was deciding those 
matters ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Well, I would think that from my own speculation, 
and that is all I can do, that there must be an apparatus of the party 



5986 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

which functions completely independently of the so-called political 
arm of the party, and I am sure that if they engaged in sabotage 
activity in the Pacific Northwest they wouldn't want people who were 
as young and green and as unsophisticated as many of those who I 
have seen on the district bureau, they wouldn't want those to have 
these facts because this would be something that would obviously be 
of a criminal nature, and it is my understanding from people I have 
known who have been Communists who have told me there were people 
who were operating at the level of espionage, even of terror, who were 
sort of the gunmen of the party. But they were not, obviously, in 
my knowledge. Now, that doesn't mean that functionaries of the 
party, such as old-line functionaries like Morris Kapport, wouldn't 
know about it. But he certainly never discussed it with me. 

Mr. Wheeler. Who were the members of the district bureau ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Well, it wasn't a stationary group, and I would have 
to borrow a term from the current McCarthy hearings and have to 
have my memory refreshed somewhat. I can remember some of them. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, the ones you recall. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Harold Eby served on the district bureau. 

Mr. Wheeler. Would you identify each individual? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Harold G. Eby was, and I believe still is, a profes- 
sor of English at the University of Washington. 

Mel Jacobs, I think, was on it because we often enough met at his 
home, and he was present when we met. Also, incidentally, at the 
time Morris Rapport was hiding out in the Pacific Northwest from, 
I think, the Immigration Department, he stayed with Mel Jacobs and 
his wife, secretly. 

Mr. Wheeler. Who is Mel Jacobs? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. He was an anthropologist and was a teacher at the 
University of Washington in anthropology and a brilliant teacher, 
and I believe he still teaches at the University of Washington. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you know him as a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes, I knew he was a member of the Communist 
Party because the Communist Party district bureau met in his home. 

Mr. Wheeler. How about Eby ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes, of course, I knew he was. His wife also was 
a member of the Communist Party. I can't remember her first name, 
but I am sure she is still married to Professor Eby. And she was 
actually sort of a small-time functionary of the party for a while. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you sit in closed Communist Party meetings with 
Professor Eby and this other professor ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Will you continue ? 

Mr. Wheeler. Please continue. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Karley A. Larsen was on the district bureau of the 
Communist Party. Ho was the representative of the labor section 
of the party. He was a member of the International Woodworkers of 
America, and vice president of that organization. 

Well, Harry Jackson, of course. He was a functionary of the party. 
Actually, he was the labor secretary for the northwest district and was 
very, very close to Morris Rapport. I have heard from Harry Jack- 
son that he and Morris Rapport were originally the people who had 
gotten Harry Bridges into the party when they were functioning 



COMMUNIST ACTWITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5987 

down in California prior to Morris Rapport becoming district organ- 
izer in the Pacific Northwest. So there was no secret about his party 
affiliations. 

Hugh DeLacy sat with me on the district bureau. 

Mr. Doyle. In closed Communist Party meetings ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. He was a member of the district bureau of the Com- 
munist Party, and while I have never seen a party card of Mr. DeLacy, 
because I didn't have one, and he didn't have one, as far as I know, 
nevertheless Hugh DeLacy, as far as I know, still is an active, func- 
tioning, hardworking, dedicated member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. DoTLE. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. D0YI.E. On the record. We will take 45 minutes for lunch at 
this time. 

(Whereupon, a luncheon recess was taken.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

Mr. DoTLE. On the record. 

Mr. Jackson. I think at this time the record should show that Sub- 
committee Chairman Jackson entered the hearing at 2 :25. Now off 
the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Jackson. On the record. 

Mr. Wheeler. Mr. Costigan, will you continue to identify the mem- 
bers of the district bureau of the Communist Party during the period 
of time you were a member ? 

Mr. Costigan. I had identified DeLacy on the record. It was not 
a continuing and static membership. There were people who were 
co-opted under the committee, and before the district bureau and 
served as temporary parts of the district bureau from 1937 to 1939, 
the time that I would have knowledge of; and if I could have my 
memory refreshed by anyone who remembers some of the other names 
I would know whether they were members of the district bureau. I 
did mention two professors of the University of Washington, who to 
my knowledge are still teaching on the faculty of the University of 
Washington, who in my opinion have not made satisfactory state- 
ments before committees, either of the State or of the Congress. 

Mr. Wheeler. I believe you identified Mel Jacobs. 

Mr. Costigan. And Harold Eby and Hugh DeLacy. As a matter 
of fact, DeLacy was a teacher at the University of Washington. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall any other individuals ? 

Mr. Costigan. I think I mentioned Karley Larsen. 

Mr. Wheeler. Yes, you did. 

Mr. Costigan. Jackson, Harold Jackson; I think it was Harold 
Jackson. Anyway, he was the labor organizer or labor secretary for 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Wheeler. Harold or Harry ? 

Mr. Costigan. Harry Jackson. And of course Morris Rappaport 
was on there. Lowell Wakefield served on the district bureau. 

Jess Fletcher appeared before the district bureau on several occa- 
sions. He was never a member of the district bureau but I was con- 
scious of the fact that he was an important member of the Communist 
Party in the labor movement. He was vice president of the BSEU. 



6988 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Bill Pennock served on it in a minor capacity. He was more or less 
there as a kind of assistant to me, as a kind of secretary, would come 
in on occasions. But he actually was represented on the district 
bureau after he became head of the Old Age Pension Union. 

There was a chap who was constantly at the beck and call of Morris 
Rappaport who I attempted to remember the other day and who at one 
time was a county organizer of the Communist Party in King County 
and who I am sure others could remember, and if anyone could recall 
his name to me I would know immediately about him, that he had been 
on the district bureau. Andy Kemes was on the district bureau part 
of this time ; assistant to Morris Rappaport in the district. 

Lou Sass was also a top functionary in the northwest district and 
was on the district bureau. 

Henry Huff was a section head of the Communist Party at that time, 
and whenever he was in Seattle he served, or attended meetings of the 
district bureau of the Communist Party. He just recently has been 
in the Smith Act trials. 

Mr. Wheeler. Does that complete your testimony concerning the 
district bureau ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. All I can remember. But I am perfectly willing to 
have anyone give me any additional names of people that the commit- 
tee may have knowledge of or may have information about being in the 
Communist district bureau operations, and I should be happy to tell 
you whether or not I know they have been members of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did you ever meet Mickey Orton ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was he a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. He certainly was. 

Mr. Wheeler. I refer to the testimony 

Mr. Doyle. Did you sit with him in closed Communist Party meet- 
ings? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes. And he was a leading ofHcer of the Interna- 
tional Woodworkers of America. I have forgotten — I think a vice 
president of the IWA. 

Mr. Wheeler. I would like to refer to the testimony of Jess Fletcher 
in the first report of the un-American activities of Washington, 1948, 
page 1Y9, where Mr. Fletcher is being questioned by tlie committee 
and he is relating an experience, or a meeting rather, that was held 
in the liome of Mr. Costigan, and among those present were Hugh 
DeLacy, whom you have identified as a member of the Communist 
Party; Harry Jackson, whom you have identified as a member of the 
Communist Party ; Mickey Orton, whom you have identified as a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party; and the witness Jess Fletcher. 

Mr. Costigan. Who I also identified as a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Wheeler. Yes. According to Mr. Fletcher's testimony, Mr. 
Harry Bridges was present at this meeting. Do you recall such a 
meeting ? 

Mr. Costigan. Yes. I recall that Bridges was up to my place on 
several occasions ; many of them were social, and they were meetings 
that included rather broad groups of people. We had a number of 
people who would be present who were people I knew to be identified 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5989 

members of the Communist Party. At that time I did not know him 
as a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall what the purpose of this meeting 

was ? •Ill- 

Mr. CosTiGAN. No ; I can't. There were so many meetings held at 
my place and at other places, as you will learn if you check the record, 
as many as 4 and 5 meetings a day, and I did at least 2 broadcasts a day 
and edited a newspaper. I was a comparatively busy citizen, and I 
met numerous occasions — I usually worked 18 hours a day. 

Mr. Wheeler. Mr. Fletcher testified that this meeting, as he recalls, 
was called for the purpose of running Hugh DeLacy for city council. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Oh, I remember a meeting 

Mr. Wheeler. Does that refresh your recollection? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. For the purpose of running Hugh DeLacy for city 
council. He was then a teacher at the University of Washington. 

Mr. Wheeler. What interest would Mr. Bridges have in running 
Hugh DeLacy as a member of the city council? 

I^ir. Costigan'. Because Bridges was interested in the promotion 
of what he considered to be a progressive political program at the level 
of the municipalities, as well as State levels, along the Pacific Coast 
where he had a concentration of members in the ILWU, and as a mat- 
ter of fact the 1934 strike, general strike — wait a minute. Pardon me. 
I mean, the 1934 waterfront strike had its political repercussions in 
Seattle because the then mayor of Seattle, a Kepublican by the name 
of Charlie Smith, who subsequently became known as "Gas Bomb 
Charlie," threw gas bombs at the longshoremen and using his good 
quarterback arm from the University of Washington and his back- 
ground of training for that purpose, and as a result I led a recall move- 
ment against Charlie Smith. That is the first time I became familiar 
with the waterfront situation. And we came within a whisker of get- 
ting it except the longshoremen had to go back to work and couldn't 
carry petitions any longer because the strike had been settled, and 
from that time on there was a continuing interest in the political 
nature of life of Seattle, including the removal of the city council 
who had supported Smith at the time, and DeLacy was approved as 
a candidate, as being a desirable person for the office, and he had some 
kind of direct involvement in some waterfront activities himself. 1 
think at that time DeLacy had been a member of one of the mari- 
time unions. He had made trips to Japan as a seaman. 

Mr. Doyle. Was he, at the time he was a candidate for mayor — - 

Mr. Costigan. He wasn't a candidate for mayor. He was a candi- 
date for city council. 

Mr. DoTLE. Wliat is the fact, if you know, as to whether or not at 
that time whether he was known to you to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Costigan. He was known to me as a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Doyle. At the time he became a candidate for city council ? 

Mr. Costigan. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Why was he known to you as that? 

Mr, Costigan. Because he had sat with me at district meetings of 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Doyle. Closed meetings ? 



5990 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. CosTiGAN. That is correct. 

Mr. Wheeler. Mr. Fletcher also testified this meeting was called 
at the instance, to quote his testimony, of "Comrade Rapport." 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Well, "Comrade Rapport" was a district organizer 
of the Communist Party, and as a matter of fact Morris Rapport and 
I were very often in company, and I had many meetings witli Morris 
Rapport. As a matter of fact, I had a meeting with Morris Rapport 
before the convention of the IWA was held in Portland, Oreg,, and 
this, I think, is a piece of information that may relate to what you had 
in mind in your question. I was asked to— by Morris Rapport, or 
was told by Morris Rapport that I was to make the major political 
address at the International Woodworkers of America convention 
at Portland, Oreg., and would I mind riding down with him so we 
could discuss certain matters. So I rode down with him. And I 
was joined by Morris Rapport and Harry Jackson, who were with 
me. We proceeded to Portland together, and I was told then we 
would be meeting with Bill Schneiderman and Lambert. I don't 
know, I am always in trouble in knowing whether it iS Rudy Lambert 
or the other Lambert. This one was labor organizer for the Com- 
munist Party for the California district. In any event, I was to meet 
with those two, and we were to meet with Harry Bridges, who would 
be there from California. So when we got to Portland we met with 
Harry Bridges and Harold Pritchett, who is the president of the 
International Woodworkers of America, and identified as a Com- 
munist Party member. And we held those meetings, as I vaguely re- 
call, in the — well, there are two hotels, one across the street from each 
other, and one is new and the other one is old, and they are very well 
known hotels in Portland. Anyway, in any event, it was the hotel 
close to the hall where the convention was held. 

Present at those meetings were only party functionaries, myself 
and Harry Bridges. So I would assume that this was a closed meeting 
of the Communist Party, and I was attending a Communist Party 
meeting. 

Mr. Wheeler. Getting back to this particular meeting that was held 
at your home. Here we have Hugh DeLacy, who is a member of the 
district bureau; Howard Costigan, member of the district bureau; 
Harry Jackson, member of the district bureau; Jess Fletcher, whom 
you described as an important member of the Communist Party ; and 
Mickey Orton. Now, the only person that you have not identified as a 
member of the Communist Party is Harry Bridges. 

Mr. Costigan. Because, as I think I already told you, as I said, at 
that time I did not know him to be a member of the Communist Party. 
I have never seen a card, and I can only say that at the meeting in 
Portland, which is the closest approximation in my mind to a closed 
Communist Party meeting at top level that I have ever attended on 
the west coast, that Bridges was one of those present, and all the others 
I knew to be members of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Doyle. About when was that Portland meeting ? 

Mr. Costigan. That would be the date of the convention. I was 
in Portland in 1937, or 1938, something like that. As I say, I talked 
to this convention every year and I keynoted most of them, politically, 
so I can't be sure. 

Mr. Wheeler. On that point, who in that meeting that you have now 
referred to when Bridges was present, who else was in that meeting 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5991 

that you did not know to be a Communist besides Bridges, if anybody ? 
Mr. CosTiGAN. This meeting— the New Hetman Hotel is the name 

of the hotel. 

Mr. Wheeler. You understand the question ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes. Well, actually I met in the room of Jim Mol- 
than, M-o-l-t-h-a-n. He was an attorney. He was the attorney for the 
IWA, with offices in Seattle, and to my knowledge he was a member 
of the Communist Party. But Molthan was to be in the room— as 
a matter of fact, Molthan was out of the room when the conference 
was going on, but he did come and go, and I wish to attest to the fact 
that he returned to the room with Dick Neuberger in tow, and Dick 
was of course reporting then for the New York Times, and was its 
Northwest correspondent, and he was vitally interested in labor mat- 
ters, and he opened the door and saw that we were still in conference 
in the room, and he then turned hastily to Neuberger, who probably 
got a peek of the countenances of the room figures, and said, "Look, 
there is something going on in my room. Let's go someplace else and 
talk." 

Mr. Wheeler. Then, answering my question, was there anybody else 
in the room besides Bridges who 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Not in the continuing conference, but we did have 
runners from the IWA meeting, whom I couldn't positively identify, 
and they came and told us what was going on in committee meetings. 
And I think that is the only time I was present at a meeting with 
Bridges, and was for the purpose of outlining the basic questions 
that needed to be presented in the form of speech material and to be 
built into resolutions from the convention supporting the New Deal. 

Mr. Wheeler. Now again, you have mentioned an attorney in 
Seattle 

Mr. CosTiGAN. James Molthan. 

Mr. Wheeler. And you stated he was a Communist, but you didn't 
state how you knew. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. I said I knew him. I know Jim very well, and he 
has talked to people of joining the Communist Party; was a memJ3er 
of the party for a relatively brief period of time. I mean, I don't think 
he would deny it. 

Mr. Wheeler. I merely wanted to know your identification. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Well, personally, we have discussed his membership, 
why he couldn't get along with the party, why he didn't like the party, 
what was wrong with the party. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did he ever get out of the party ? 

Mr. CosTiGAjsr. Yes. And he has been a bitter opponent of it, been 
accused of being a Trotsky ite as far as I know. He served in the 
Armed Forces during World War II. He was commissioned from 
the field, and he has been — if anything, he has been a more active 
and vigilant anti-Communist than most of the people that have been 
members of the party in the Northwest. 

Mr. Wheeler. I would like to refer to the testimony of Kathryn 
Fogg, second report of the Un-American Activities Committee in the 
State of Washington. In response to a question Miss Fogg answered, 
"We were very active in the Commonwealth Federation." 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Miss Fogg, for identification, isn't she the one who 
was a member of the State legislature ? 

48069— 54— pt. 1 3 



5992 COMIVIUNIST ACTRaTIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Wheeler. Eight. [Reading :] 

We were very active in the Commonwealth Federation. And he was on the 
executive board of the Commonweal tli Federation. We attended meetings and 
policy-forming meetings for the Federation. Howard Costigan, Hugh DeLacy, 
Bill Dobbins, Harold Eby, John Caughlan — I can"t think of any more at the 
present time. 

Aiid. then a question by Mr. Houston [reading] : 

These were all members of the Communist Party, of your Knowledge? 
Miss Fogg. Yes. 

With reference to John Caughlan, I would like for you to relate 
what knowledge you have of him. 

ISIr. Costigan. The only way that I can effectively give you any 
real knowledge of John Caughlan is that Morris Rapport used to 
speak disparagingly of John Caughlan as being another one of those 
lawyers as being too legalistic in his approach to things. I have 
never seen his card, and I think it is just taken for granted in discus- 
sions, but I do not have, or directly know John Caughlan to be a 
member of the Communist Party; but I have no doubt that he was 
a member of the Communist Party because I felt that the criticism 
of Caughlan by Rapport at the time was related to him in a manner 
which would indicate that he. Rapport, knew him to be a member of 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Doyle. There again I want to indicate in the record that I 
doubt the advisability of including the name of the man as a member 
of the Communist Party that can't be positively identified. 

Mr. Wheeler. Mr. Doyle, in regard to that, I read the sworn testi- 
mony of a former member of the Communist Party who identified 
Mr. Caughlan, and I was asking our present witness if he had any 
similar knowledge. 

Mr. Doyle. Off the record. 

( Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Doyle. On the record. 

Mr. Wheeler. Would you relate to the committee the reasons you 
left the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Costigan. Well, yes. I left the Communist Party because I 
become clearly conscious of tlie fact that the Communist Party was an 
instrument of a foreign government whicli operated deceitfully and 
conspiratorially and which in effect was a force for reaction even 
greater than nazism ever was, precisely, because it appealed to the be^t 
in the people who were idealists and wlio joined the party and who sub- 
sequently obviously had to find out that the Communist Party was 
neither democratic nor American, and was in effect engaged in using 
their interest for tlie purpose of defeating those very ends. 

Specifically, I left the Communist Party because of the Soviet-Nazi 
pact. It Avas clear to me that the Communist Party was not even anti- 
Fascist, and I had been very much against fascism. 

I left it on a more intimate basis because I had been assigned to 
help build up a western conference to launch the campaign for Frank- 
lin Roosevelt. I had a series of conferences with people in Washing- 
ton, D. C, including Norris, LaGuardia, and even La Follette, and 
even Burton Wheeler on the question of holding this western con- 
ference in Salt Lake City, and I found that after the Soviet-Nazi 
pact that all my friends on the Pacific coast, including Harry Bridges,. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5993 

were opposed to such a conference, and were immediately charging 
Franklin Roosevelt as being the Nation's leading warmonger. 

Mr. Wheeler. Have you been actively anti-Commimist 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Ever since; more effective anti-Communist after the 
end of the war in which we were cobelligerents and coparticipants 
against (he Nazis. Prior to that time any effort to openly place Com- 
munists in position of exposure meant you were immediately charged 
by those who were soft-headed with being pro-Nazi. 

Mr. Wheeler. I have no further questions. 

IVIr. Jackson. Do you have any questions, Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. ^Vliat year was that that you withdrew, Mr. Costigan ? 

Mr. Costigan. I explained earlier. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, approximately. 

Mr. Costigan. Well, I said it was in 1940 when I left the Com- 
munist Party. As I say, I took over the — my first positive action in 
anti-Communist activity was the Norris-LaGuardia campaign in the 
reelection of Eoosevelt. 

Mr. Doyle. In your activity against the Communist conspiracy, 
what form of activity did you take ? Did you take cooperation with, 
the FBI at any time ? 

Mr. Costigan. Yes, I have cooperated with the FBI. 

Mr. Doyle. Beginning how far back ? 

Mr. Costigan. I don't know exactly. I don't know if I cooperated 
with the FBI until after the war. I have been available at any time 
for questions from the FBI since that time, and all other agencies of 
the United States Government; including Immigration. 

Mr. Doyle. In your wide experience — and I don't know that you 
are on the record any place yet with a congressional committee 

Mr. CosTiQiAN. I am not. 

Mr. Doyle. From your wide experience, I know you have studied 
the problem, what have you to suggest, if anything, so far as the 
functioning of this House Un-American Activities Committee under 
Public Law 601? Give Congress the benefit of any suggestions you 
have. 

Mr. Costigan. Well, I would say first of all that it must be re- 
membered that the Communist Party appeals to the best in the youth 
to entrap them into the party ; that unfortunately, and too often, the 
political equipment of this country does not provide the means by 
which young people can become active in behalf of the correction of 
injustices without in some way or another being branded as Com- 
munists, and many of them finally get to the point where, if they 
feel that they wish to be active they must of course associate with 
active groups in the Communist active program, if they are active, 
and if they are not Communists they get branded as Communists, so 
they might as well have the game as the name, so to speak. 

Until it is possible for conservatives of our Nation to realize that 
there must be a freedom for the expression of progressive and liberal 
ideas, in an effort to ameliorate conditions that otherwise give the 
Communists adequate soil in which to fortify, until that is done, I 
think we have got the only answer to solving the problem, and I would 
say it is, well, first that the progressive and liberal, particularly the 
American liberal, learn that under no circumstances — the Communist 
Party, the Communist instrument of progress or liberalism is, in 



5994 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

effect, the most reactionary force in the world. Then, on the other 
hand, I would say the ones most loud in their opposition to the Com- 
munist Party, who are unknowledgable of its appeal to the young 
idealist, and who are ready to acquaint as Communists any expres- 
sion of liberalism, that those persons are unconsciously aiding the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Doyle. Let me direct a question to you, because of the lack of 
time at this time. Will you give, as briefly and distinctly as you can, 
your suggestion as to what, if anything there is that this committee can 
do to improve our processes or methods. That is what I am after, Mr. 
Costigan. 

Mr. Costigan. I wotdd say, first of all, to be certain that when one is 
branded a Communist, you be certain such a person is a Communist. 
Second, that every effort be made to give those who have even been, as 
idealists, have been members of the Communist Party, a chance to re- 
habilitate themselves. 

Mr. Jackson. Isn't it a fact, Mr. Costigan, that the committee has 
done exactly that ? 

Mr. Costigan. Within my knowledge. Congressmen, and I can only 
limit that knowledge to the area of information that you and I both 
know of, which is the west coast of the United States, in this period, 
particularly with reference to Hollywood, I would say, and I have so 
said, that to my knowledge the committee has never called a person 
who has not been previously positively identified by at least two sepa- 
rate persons who would have knowledge of that person's membership, 
never has called them a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Jackson. I am very happy to have that on the record, because 
this is a popular misconception in some quarters, that this committee 
is on a fisliing expedition and it is simply a matter of taking someone 
off the street corner and hauling him before the committee. I think it 
is very important that it be clearly understood in the record that this 
is not the procedure of this committee, and you are in a unique posi- 
tion, by virtue of your excellent work that you have done here on the 
west: coast, to do much to dissipate that concept. And I think you have 
adequately done it in your statement. But I think it is important. 

Mr. Costigan. And I shall continue to do so, because I thhik the 
work of this committee, following its true purpose, is most essential to 
the future security of the United States in this period of great crisis. 

Mr. Doyle. And you feel that that policy, you believe, that we 
follow, of requiring at least the identification of two is essential? 
Mr. Costigan. I certainly think it is very sound. 
Mr. Doyle. And fair and just and reasonable? 
Mr. Costigan. I think it is most sound. I think it is probably — I 
mean, the information I have about other committees, both State and 
congressional, incline me to believe that this is a policy M'liich your 
committee was inaugurated and which might well be followed by other 
committees of the Congress of the United States. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you any criticism or any other advice to the com- 
mittee as to how we can im]:)rove our processes ? 

Mr. Costigan. I think not in the committee's own forum of official 
proceedings. But I think it would be well for some members of the 
committee — I have reference now in the dim past to a member or two 
of the committee, in fact a couple of chairmen of the committee, who 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5995 

arrogated unto themselves a right to speak for the entire committee, 
more or less officially, in public meetings, away from the confines of 
the committee hearing rooms and to make what I consider to be un- 
fortunate statements which have caused a certain amount of public 
opprobrium to be attached to the committee which, I believe does harm 
to the committee's, shall we say, effective function. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you any other observations that you want to give 
us as to ways and means by which you believe we could strengthen our 
processes ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Well, you are probably asking me inf erentially about 
whether I tliink the confrontation of witnesses 

Mr. Doyle. Any considered opinion you may have. 
_ Mr. CosTiGAN. My opinion is, however, that this is not the func- 
tion of the legislative committee, but is a function of the court. I 
think it would mean an endless amount of wasted time of the com- 
mittee, which, unfortunately, if it covers all of the ground it is going 
to be extremely busy, and I think it is sufficient that legal counsel be 
permitted to attend those witnesses who wish legal counsel, and that 
they be given an opportunity, when accused, and if they feel falsely 
accused, to make the record hj appearing voluntarily before the com- 
mittee, and I believe the committee has been fair and permitted anyone 
so accused to come before the committee and make whatever explana- 
tion he wishes, or to deny the charges of any previous witness. I 

Mr. Jackson. May I ask that where you use the word "accused" 
that you use the word "named" ; no accusation being leveled. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Yes, you are quite correct, sir. Anyone who is named 
in the records of the committee as a member of the party, you see. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. He should have the right to correct the record if it 
is to be corrected. 

Mr. Jackson. The rules of the committee adopted early last year 
specifically set forth the fact that any individual who is named for 
the first time in open hearings shall be notified at the earliest prac- 
tical moment to the last address of record of the fact that he was named, 
by whom named and the name of the organization with which he is 
alleged to have ben associated, and that information furnished to him. 

I would like to know whether your remark on the question of con- 
frontation of witnesses is extended to the matter of cross-examination 
of witnesses. That is a question which is being discussed at length 
now. I might say that it is my personal opiinon, that in an investi- 
gation of the sort conducted by this committee that it is not practi- 
cable, for a number of reasons, to permit cross-examination, particu- 
larly of those witnesses who quite obviously have not intention of 
cooperating with the committee. I should like to know now, out of 
\our own experience, extensive experience in the party, whether cross- 
examination would be conducted in good faith. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. By the Communist Party? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. Not at all. This is one piece of information that I 
will volunteer : To my knowledge the Communist Party on the day- 
to-day operations does not pick non-Communist attorneys. The Com- 
munist Party does, on exceptional occasions, where there is a great, 
shall we say, public relations problem at stake, pick non-Communists 
to represent them, such as in hearings before the Supreme Court, where 



5996 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Wendell Willkie, who was obviously never a member of the Communist 
Party, was picked to handle the Schneiderman case by the Commu- 
nists. But in the usual run of the mill operations of the party it is as- 
sumed that the party should always have the right to expect its own 
attorneys to put the party's program above the law. 

Now, I can cite a specific instance of this : At one time there was a 
conference on a subject affecting two rival law firms in the Pacific 
Northwest, both of whom had to do with handling the business of 
unions which were dominated by the Communist Party. During the 
course of this hassle, at the district bureau, and it is read as such things 
get to the district bureau, it was the observation of Morris Rapport, 
the then organizer for the Communist Party for the Northwest dis- 
trict of the United States, that it must be read, one, that the reason 
that we require Communist Party membership of our continuing bat- 
tery of attorneys is that the time comes quite often when it is to the 
interest of the party, in the furthering of its objectives, to place the 
law second and the party interest first ; so that often enough it becomes 
the duty of a party member, who is also a lawyer, to act m an illegal, 
or, shall we say, unethical manner as far as the bar is concerned, be- 
cause his first devotion, as is the devotion of all continuing members, 
is to the party first and to their labor union, the bar, the church, or 
anything else they may be a member of, as far as the public knowl- 
edge is concerned, that must be placed second. 

Mr. Jackson. The committee has had abundant evidence of that 
type of conduct. Now, to what purpose would cross-examination be 
used by a Communist lawyer ? 

Mr. CosTiGAN. For the purpose of discrediting the adverse witness 
to the party's position, dragging in any kind of inferential material 
that would be smear techniques if used by the others in the party itself, 
even as to whether or not he w^as a chronic dypsomaniac, rapist, or any 
other items ; or use any other fraud in getting the witness, anything 
that is not germane to the case, but that doesn't bother a legal light of 
the party. And what is often enough true is that it is false material 
which no one, under the rules of your committee, would have a chance 
if you permitted to have this latitude on cross-examination. 

Mr. Jackson. I should like to make it clear on this point, before I 
leave it, Mr. Doyle, that I personally am not opposed to cross-exami- 
nation of witnesses who are cooperating in order to clear up points 
which may not have been made clear in the original testimony of the 
identifying witness and such instances, I imagine, do occur from time 
to time. But I can see no valid reason for permitting cross-examina- 
tion by irrational, cantakerous attorneys for equally cantakerous and 
irrational witnesses who have not cooperated in any way and obviously 
have no intention of cooperating with the committee. 

Mr. CosTiGAN. The purpose of such attorneys, as often enough the 
purpose of such of the adverse witnesses, is to use the hearing as a 
forum to reach as many people as they can for the purpose of dis- 
crediting the committee, the purpose, and even the Government of 
the United States. 

Mr. Doyle. As you now know, Mr. Chairman, one of my suggested 
rules was that the committee adopt some rule which would allow the 
attorney of a friendly witness to have not more than 5 minutes with 
which to bring out any testimony which the friendly witness, that 
the attorney knew of that the friendly witness hadn't volunteered to 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 5997 

the committee. And I am glad to hear you say that you favor that in 
principle. 

May I ask you this question, Mr. Costigan : Do I understand that 
you go to the point of saying under oath that where a Communist 
attorney appears before our committee — 

Mr. Costigan. You mean an attorney for the Communist Party? 
Is that what you mean ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. And you have said that the ordinary run of the 
mill of attorneys who do appear to defend Communists 

Mr. Costigan. Within my knowledge. 

Mr. Doyle. Within vour knowledoe. All rijiht. And vou cer- 
tainly have a lot of knowledge about it. Do I understand that you 
are telling us, under oath, that those attorneys, by and large, have 
advised their clients before this committee, under oath, to put their 
Communist Party oath ahead of their respect and obedience to estab- 
lished law, either State or National ? 

Mr. Costigan. If both, in a hypothetical case, are members of a 
Communist Party — that is, your witness and his attorney who appears, 
both would be not only remiss, but would be subject to being dragged 
before a control commission 

Mr. Jackson. Disciplinary body ? 

Mr. Costigan. In other words, they would be considered to be 
acting in a fashion which, if I may coin a phrase, was unconununistic — 
not un-American, but uncommunistic. 

Mr. Jackson. Manifestly the reason I asked that question was to 
have a restatement of that. As you know, I am not a lawyer myself, 
and I am shocked to hear you say it. 

Mr. Costigan. I am shocked that it is true. But it is unfortunately 
true. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you have any further questions ? 

Mr. Doyle. No. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Costigan, may I say, on behalf of the committee, 
how much we appreciate your testimony. I think all of us are cog- 
nizant of the tremendous and effective effort that you and your asso- 
ciates have put forth in the anti-Communist fight. By virtue of your 
own membership, long association with the Communist Party, you 
are in a position to render a unique and significant service. This 
appearance today is a portion of it. Your cooperation with the other 
Government security agencies is additional evidence of your faith. 
I want to, on behalf of the full Committee on Un-American Activi- 
ties, and the House of Representatives to extend to you our expression 
of grateful thanks, and I am sure that you will hold yourself in readi- 
ness to cooperate in the future, as you have in the jDast, with the com- 
mittee. 

Mr. CosTiGx\N. Mr. Jackson, I want it to be expressly understood 
that I am willing and anxious to be placed under oath at any time to 
further the investigation of this committee on Communist activities 
in the United States. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you. 

(Whereupon the executive session was adjourned until 4 p. m., the 
same day.) 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NORTHWEST AEEA— Part 1 



FBIDAY, MAY 28, 1954 

United States House op Representatives, 

SUBCOMMITT'EE OF THE COMMITTEE ON Un-AmERICAN ACTIVITIES, 

Los Angeles^ OaZif. 
executive session ^ 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to call, 
at 4 p. m., in room 1484, Statler Hotel, Los Angeles, Calif., Hon. Clyde 
Doyle presiding. 

Committee member present : Representative Clyde Doyle, 

Staff member present : William A. Wheeler, investigator. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to 
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mrs. Cohen. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ELIZABETH BOGGS COHEN 

Mr. Wheeler. State your full name. 

Mrs. Cohen. Elizabeth Boggs Cohen. 

Mr. Wheeler. Will you state where you were born ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Lakeside, Wash. 

Mr. Wheeler. And will you tell the committee your educational 
background ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Lafayette Grammar School in Seattle, West Seattle 
High School, and University of Washington. 

Mr. Wheeler. And did you graduate from the University of Wash- 
ington ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. In what year ? 

Mrs. Cohen. 1935. 

Mr. Wheeler. What has been your employment background ? 

Mrs. Cohen. I worked for the Seattle Girl Scouts, for the American 
Radio Telegraphers Association, the timber workers, and the Commu- 
nist Party, all in Seattle ; and in Los Angeles for the Children's Home 
Society. 

Mr. Wheeler. When did you leave the city of Seattle ? 

Mrs. Cohen. In 1942. 

_ Mr. Wheeler. And since 1942 you have lived in southern Califor- 
nia? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. 



* Released by the committee. 

5999 



6000 COJVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Wheeler. What year did you join the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Cohen. In the fall of 1935. 

Mr. Wheeler. I see you are not represented by counsel. I would 
like to advise you that all witnesses are entitled to counsel if they so 
desire. 

Mrs. Cohen. I don't think I need counsel, Mr. Wheeler. 

Mr. Wheeler. You are presently subpenaed before the committee ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. Have you cooperated with the committee prior to 
this date ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes ; I made a sworn statement to them previously. 

Mr. Wheeler. That was April 16, 1952 ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Eight. 

Mr. Wheeler. And you have been in contact with the FBI ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes ; previous to that. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall who recruited you into the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Cohen. A man by the name of Paul Linderman. 

Mr. Wheeler. Will you further describe who he is, or was? 

Mrs. Cohen. I think at that time lie was a social worker. 

Mr. Wheeler. In the city of Seattle ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. What interested you in becoming a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Cohen. At that time the Communist Party represented itself 
as an anti-Fascist organization, as an American political party, and 
as a party, what they called the Democratic Front, which was inter- 
ested in all anti-Fascist activities and in improving the lot of most 
people in this country during the depression. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, were you assigned to any particular unit or 
group of the party after you became a member ? 

Mrs. Cohen. They sent me first to a new members group. I think 
I went about twice ; wasn't interested in the unit, and left ; told them 
I didn't like it. 

So then they assigned me to a neighborhood group, I guess you 
would call it, in a legislative district. 

IVfr. Wheeler. Do you recall what district that was in ? 

Mrs. Cohen. I don't remember the legislative number of it. It 
was in the Montlake district of Seattle. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall who the officers were of this unit? 

Mrs. Cohen. I am not sure. I chink Paul Linderman was in it. 
Dr. David Hersh, a dentist, was in it. There were some social 
workers, Alice Gundlach, and Glennette Hill, another social worker; 
and at various times it was visited by Al Bristol, the county organizer. 

Mr. Wheeler. What was the total strength of this group? 

Mrs. Cohen. As far as I remember, about 15, approximately. 

Mr. Wheeler. And how long were you a member of this particular 
unit? 

Mrs. Cohen. I'd say, oh, 6 montljs. 

Mr. Wheeler. What was your subsequent assignment? 

Mrs. Cohen. The county organizer, Al Bristol, asked me if I would 
become membership chairman for the county. 

Mr. Wheeler. And did you accept that position ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6001 

Mr. Wheeler. And how long did you remain on the county mem- 
bership committee ? Or how long were you a membership chairman i 

Mrs. Cohen. Several years, as far as I remember. 

Mr. Wheeler. And during that period of time were you a member 
of any unit or branch of the party ? 

Mrs. Cohen. I must have been; although, my main job was going 
around to the various groups in the city and helping with member- 
ship problems there. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, who were the rest of the individuals who were 
members of the membership committee ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Gladys Pettus, who was an office secretary; Reba Bax- 
ter; Helen Hill. Since it was a small committee, I think that was 
about all. 

Mr. Wheeler. Were these paid employees of the Communist Party, 
or did 

Mrs. Cohen. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall what Keba Baxter was, whether she 
was employed, on whose pay 

Mrs. Cohen. Housewife. She was married to Whitey Baxter, who 
was the waterfront organizer for the party and, I think, a seaman. 

Mr. Wheeler. How about Helen Hill ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Helen Hill was on the membership committee late 
in my membership of it, and after me became the chairman of it; 
followed me as chairman. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was there anyone else closely associated with this 
committee, its functions ? 

Mrs. Cohen. The finance committee was always closely connected 
with the membership committee because each member was accounted 
a member by the dues that they paid each week. And the county fi- 
nance chairman was Helga Phillips; and the district chairman — the 
district included, of course, Washington and Oregon — was Lenna Eby. 

Mr. Wheeler. Can you further identify Miss or Mrs. Eby? 

Mrs. Cohen. Mrs, Eby was the wife of Harold Eby, who is in the 
English department at the University of Washington. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was he known as a member of the Communist Party 
to you — Harold Eby ? 

Mrs. Cohen. I would say he was because later he attended district 
committee meetings. He was what would be called, I think, a pro- 
tected member in that he was not generally known to party members 
as a member. 

Mr. Wheeler. Were you employed by the Girl Scouts during this 
period of time ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did being a member of the Communist Party in- 
fluence you in any way in your instructions or work within the Girl 
Scouts? 

Mrs. Cohen. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did you become a paid employee of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. Later on here they asked me if I would be the 
office secretary for the county ; which I did. 

Mr. Wheeler. Were you paid well ? 

Mrs. Cohen. $10 a week. 

Mr. Wheeler. What were your duties as secretary ? 



6002 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Cohen. We put out the waterfront mimeogi\aphed paper. "We 
mimeographed all of the instructions to the branches each Aveek, to 
the neighborhood groups. I attended all of the county committee 
meetings. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was this paper put out to the waterfront, was it an 
official publication of the Communist Party, so designated on the 
paper ? 

Mrs. Cohen. The heading of the paper stated that it was put out by 
the waterfront section of the Communist Party. Whether or not that 
makes it an official publication, I couldn't know. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, it was printed by the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Written, printed, and distributed by the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Wheeler. They were responsible for its distribution? 

Mrs. Cohen. They were responsible for its distribution. 

Mr. Wheeler. And while w^orking on this paper did you meet 
individuals connected with the waterfront who assisted you in any 
way? 

Mrs. Cohen. "Whitey Baxter and Blacky Cannelonga were both con- 
nected with the waterfront ; and Ernie Fox was the district trade union 
director; and Harry Jackson, full-time party functionary for the dis- 
trict ; and Charlie ^^^^g, also a trade unionist, and they were all con- 
cerned with the waterfront trade unions. 

I would put it, Mr. Wheeler, that I assisted them rather than they 
assisted me. 

Mr. Wheeler. Who was responsible for getting you in this position ? 

Mrs. Cohen. A1 Bristol. 

Mr, Wheeler. Was it considered a promotion ? 

Mrs. Cohen. I think they considered that I was willing to do an 
awful lot of work, that I was fairly responsible — yes, I would call it 
halfway a promotion. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well now, I noticed, or you have testified that you 
worked for the Timber Worker. What is the Timber Worker? 

Mrs. Cohen, The Timber Worker is the official paper of the ILWA, 
International Lumber and Woodworkers of America. Those are all — 
Washington is a wood State, as you know, so all of the unions, both in 
this country and in Canada, were affiliated with that. They had thi" 
weekly newspaper which they put out. 

Mr. Wheeler. Were you a member of the Communist Party whilei 
employed by the Timber Worker? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. 

INIr. Wheeler. Who was the president of the union? 

Mrs. Cohen. Plarold Pritchett, 

Mr. Wheeler. Was he a member of the Communist Parfv? 

Mrs. Cohen. I assumed that he was ; but as far as I know, I didn't 
ever see him at a party meeting; not even any of the District meet- 
ings. Put it this way : I know that he talked with Morris Rapport, 
the district organizer, consulted with him, and with other trade uni(m- 
ists whom I did not know as party members. 

Mr. Wheeler, How did you get this job? 

Mrs, Cohen. Severel party members were employed ns secretaries 
in that office, and I was a bookkeeper for the Timber Worker. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall who the other party members were? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6003 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes ; a girl whom I mentioned before, Gladj^s Pettus. 
Gladys Pettus was Harold Pritchett's secretary. Kate Telford, al- 
though she used the name Kate Bell, and she was in the office and I 
knew her to be a party member because she collected money. 

I have got Harold Pritchett down because she collected money from 
him which went direct to the district. But Harold Pritchett was an- 
other member who was not known as a party member, and I think his 
onlv activity was contributing money. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, do you recall any of the officials of the union 
who were members of the Communist Party ? That is, the ILWA. 

Mrs. Cohen. I don't know that I ever- 

Mr. Wheeler. How about Mickey Orton? 

Mrs. Cohen. Mickey Orton was a vice president. 

Mr. Wheeler. How about Charlie Hanson? 

Mrs. Cohen. Charlie Hanson ? Yes, he was a member of that union„ 
His local was one of those from down in the Grays Harbor area, I 
think. 

I don't recall any other at this time. 

Mr. Wheeler. You have testified j^ou were chairman of the King 
County membership committee. How long were you membership 
chairman ? 

Mrs, Cohen. Approximately 2 years. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall the membership of the Communist 
Party in Seattle at that time? , 

Mrs. Cohen. "Wlien I became chairman, approximately 200; and 
during the 2 years I think it grew to about 1,200. 

Mr. Wheeler. What 2 years was this ? 

Mrs. Cohen. At a guess, from 1936 to 1938. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, during the period of time that you served as 
chairman of the King County membership committee you would be 
in a position to meet many organizers and functionaries of the party ; 
is that right? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. Would you advise the committee of all of the Com- 
munist Party functionaries you became acquainted with and their 
position, if you can recall ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Morris Rapport was the district organizer. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was he also known as Morris Rappaport? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. And I believe that Rappaport was his correct 
name ; that is, his legal name. Rapport was used to simplify and make 
it easier. 

Mr. Wheeler. Will you continue, please ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Louise Sass was district organizational secretary; 
Harry Jackson, trade union functionary ; Andy Remes, district edu- 
cational director; Bob Roberts, district literature director; Henry 
Huff, Aberdeen section organizer and member of the district com- 
mittee; Barbara Hartle, Spokane County organizer and member of 
the district committee; James Murphy, Portland section organizer 
and member of tlie district committee; Phyl Gillette, secretary to 
Morris Rapport, a woman ; Al Bristol, King County section organizer ; 
Mary Sass, King County organizational secretary; Gretchen Hill, 
King County literature director; and Whitey Baxter, full-time water- 
front organizer. 



6004 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. "Wheeler. Are these the people you identify as functionaries 
within the party during that time"? 

Mrs. Cohen. Full-time functionaries. 

Mr. Wheeler. During this period of time did you meet other indi- 
viduals whom you can identify as members of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Cohen. From national headquarters in New York I met Eliza- 
beth Gurley Flynn; Clarence Hathaway, editor of the Daily Worker; 
Earl Browder from the national committee ; William Z. Foster from 
the national committee; Roy Hudson, national trade union director; 
Jack Stachel, a member of the national commitee. 

And members of the district committee with whom I met when I 
was a member of the district committee were Harold Brockway from 
the Workers' Alliance; Carl Brooks, chairman of the Negro commis- 
sion; Hugh De Lacy, president of the Washington Commonwealth 
Federation and later a city councilman and national Congressman; 
Eugene Dennett, a trade unionist; Bill Dobbins, building service em- 
ployees union ; Harold Eby from the English department at the Uni- 
versity of Washington; Ernie Fox, waterfront trade unionist; Bar- 
bara Hartle, whom I mentioned previously; Henry Huff from Aber- 
deen, previously identified ; James Murphy from Portland, previouslv 
identified; Glen Kinney from the machinists union; Bill Pennock, 
old-age pension unit who later became State legislator. 

Among the trade union people that I knew, the office workers were 
Iren^ Borwoski, Washington Commonwealth Federation office; Har- 
riet Dennett, wife of Eugene Dennett ; Elsie Fox, wife of Ernie Fox ; 
Kate Telford, who worked in the office of the International Wood- 
workers of America; and Jessie Harris. And I don't think I know 
where she worked. 

Other trade unionists were Merwin Cole from the Building Service 
Employees Union; James Cour, a newspaperman; Jess Fletcher. 
Building Service Employees Union ; Nat Honig, newspaperman ; Elen 
McGrath, newspaper reporter; Mickey Orton, International Wood- 
workers of America; Walter Stack, one of the waterfront unions; 
Sam Telford, husband of Kate Telford, and one of the waterfront 
unions; and Burt Nelson, international longshoremen's union. 

Others that I met as Communists were H. C. Armstrong, Washing- 
ton Commonwealth Federation; N. P. Atkinson, [American] League 
Against AVar and Fascism, and that gave him the WCF ; John Brock- 
way from Bellingham, and active in the WCF, and brother of Harold 
Brockway; Celeste Brooks, wife of Carl Brooks; John Caughlan, at- 
torney ; Dick Correll, an artist, and his wife, Alice Correll ; Howard 
Costigan from the WCF ; Baba Jeanne Sears, who later became the 
organizer for Pierce County ; Margaret Haglund, [American] League 
Against War and Fascism ; Harvey Jackins, youth leader ; Byrd Kelso 
from the Workers' Alliance; Terry Pettus, newspaperman and editor 
of the New Dealer, and brother of Gladys Pettus ; Lowell Wakefield, 
a newspaperman and editor of the Voice of Action; and Ben Golden, 
who worked in the book store. 

Mr. Wheeler. With regard to these people that have been men- 
tioned by you, you attended closed Communist Party meetings with 
all of them ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes; either county committee meetings, and some of 
them district committee meetings, or party conferences of one type 
or another. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6005 

Mr. Wheeler. Were they meetings closed to Communist Party 
members ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Most of them were. 

Mr. Wheeler. Could you elaborate somewhat on John Caughlan? 

Mrs. Cohen. John Caughlan was recognized as the attorney who 
handled the Communist Party business. I met him at various con- 
ferences with Morris Rapport. I am certain in my own mind that 
he is a member, and I think without doubt at one time or another he 
must have come to county conventions. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you ever* recall him appearing at- the head- 
quarters of the Communist Party on Communist Party business? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. It was in connection, however, with a law case 
that the Communist Party was involved in, which he would come 
as a lawyer. I don't think I can place him as coming on business not 
connected with a law practice. 

Mr. Wheeler. Can you place him at Communist Party meetings 
which were not connected with law practice ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes, I think a county committee meeting or a county 
convention. I am virtually certain that I can say he was there. But 
dates 

Mr. Wheeler. Can you recall at this time any individuals who 
were organizers of various legislative sections in King County? 

Mrs. Cohen. I couldn't give you the numbers of the legislative 
sections from this far away, but the people who I remember who were 
organizers at various times of legislative sections were Dick 
Correll 

Mr. Wheeler. Could you further identify him ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Dick Correll was the artist I mentioned before. John 
Daschbach, and I think he was in one of the legislative sections in 
northern Seattle — I can't identify him further — Victor Hicks, from 
one of the central legislative districts in Seattle; Clayton Van Lyde- 
graf , who later became a full-time county functionary ; Ruth Roark, 
in the university section ; Bill Roark, her brother 

Mr. Wheeler. Were they students of the University of Washington? 

Mrs. Cohen. No, this was after university time. 

Mr. Wheeler. This university section is just a designated com- 
munity close to the university ? 

Mrs. Cohen. That is correct. Otto Pahkala, from Rainier Valley 
section of Seattle; James Ellison, Pierce County section organizer; 
Max Olson, chairman of the YCL, the Young Communist League; 
James West, chairman of the YCL after Max Olson ; Phil Frankf eld 
became the district organizer after Andy Remes, and just before I left 
Seattle ; Cecil Jay, and I can't remember wliich section ; Claude Smith, 
who was a newspaper man and probably chairman of the sections 
which included groups organized, not on a legislative basis, but on an 
industrial basis ; Rachmiel Forschmiedt and his wife, who were in the 
west Seattle section ; John Laurie, chairman of the King County com- 
mittee • 

Mr. Wheeler. John Laurie, Jr. or 

Mrs. Cohen. Senior. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did you know his son ? 

Mrs. Cohen. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Go on. 

Mrs. Cohen. And Hazel Wolfe from the Workers' Alliance. 



6006 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Wheeler. "VVliat other positions did you hold in the Communist 
Party, if any ? 

Mrs. Cohen. I was the section organizer in the west Seattle section, 

Mr. Wheeler. What did the west Seattle section encompass? 

Mrs. Cohen. About 4 or 5 groups in the legislative district in that 
part of Seattle. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was it the industrial part of Seattle or residential ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Eesidential. 

Mr, Wheeler. And can you recall the individuals who were mem- 
bers of this particular section ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Mabel Conrad, a housewife; Mabel Jenson, I heard 
that she later worked for the Old Age Pension ; but when I knew her 
she was just a housewife. And Mr. and Mrs. Al Hester. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall who any of the officials were in this 
district ? 

Mrs. Cohen. No, I'm afraid I can't now. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did you have any occasion to run for a public office 
in Seattle? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. I ran for the city council in February of 1940. 
Although this was a nonpartisan election it was generally understood 
that I was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Wheeler, Well, did the Communist Party request that you run 
for this office ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. And by what medium were you selected, do you 
recall ? 

Mrs. Cohen, I was just asked by Morris Rapport. 

Mr. Wheeler. How did you do in the election ? 

Mrs. Cohen. I didn't make the finals. I think I ran about seventh 
in the field of 12 in the primaries. 

Mr. Wheeler. Now, when did you state that you left Seattle? 

Mrs. Cohen. In 1942. 

Mr. Wheeler. Wliat was your reaction to the Stalin-Hitler pact 
in 1939? 

I might ask you this question first: What was the official party 
position regarding the rise of Hitler prior to the pact? 

Mrs. Cohen. The party's position toward Hitler was one of extreme 
opposition. He was considered a dictator of the worst Fascist kind. 

Mr. Wheeler. As a member of the Communist Party, you were in 
accord with this program? 

Mrs. Cohen, i es. 

Mr. Wheeler. Wiat was your reaction to the Stalin-Hitler pact 
in 1939? 

Mrs. Cohen. The reaction which I shared was one of complete 
shock and disbelief until the official explanation came out, which was 
that the Soviet Union was simply sparring for time. 

Mr. Wheeler. This was acceptable to you? 

Mrs. Cohen. Not entirely. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did the Communist Party do anything during the 
pact to slow down the production of war materials being sent to Eng- 
land? I mean, wliat was their reaction to our — not active participa- 
tion — but certainly there was participation on behalf of our Govern- 
ment. Were they in accord with military training? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6007 

Mrs. Cohen. No, I don't think they were. 

Mr. Wheeler. Were they in accord with our assistance to Great 
Britain ? 

Mrs. Cohen. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. What was their position in reoard to strikes? 

Mrs. Cohen. They must have been against any aid that we could 
give Britain, and tlierefore, in accord and giving approval to any slow- 
down or — I wouldn't say actual sabotage, although that may have 
occurred — any slowdown in the production of war materials in this 
country, or their delivery to Great Britain. 

Mr. Wheeler. What was their attitude toward President 
Roosevelt ? 

Mrs. Cohen. As far as I know, they always supported him. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you know whom they supported in the 1940 
campaign ? 

Mrs. Cohen. They always — as far as I can remember, they always 
ran their own candidate. There were many individual members of 
the Communist Party who supported Roosevelt, but the position in 
general was so against war that at that time they called him a war- 
monger ; and the slogans were that the Yanks were not coming ; and 
there was a great determination to stay out of what they called an 
imperialist war. It was not our war, they said. 

Mr. Wheeler. In your opinion, why did the Communist Party 
take this position ? 

Mrs.. Cohen. Probably because they were supporting the nonag- 
gression pact of the Soviet Union and Germany, which was then in 
effect. 

Mr. Wheeler. In other words, they were completely subservient 
to the dictates of a foreign power. 

Mrs. Cohen. That I agree with entirely. Any position which the 
Soviet Union took was immediately reflected in official directives given 
out by the national committee in this country, and carried down to 
all of the branches and to all of the members of the party. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, what happened when Hitler invaded Russia? 

Mrs. Cohen. Immediately the party turned and became ardent sup- 
porters of the fight against Germany. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall if they demanded a second front im- 
mediately ? 

Mrs. Cohen. They demanded it so much that it became one of the 
major slogans, and if actually carried out probably an embarrassment 
to the strategical conduct of the war. 

Mr. Wheeler. Now, you have testified that you moved to southern 
California in 1942, 1 believe. 

Mrs. Cohen. Right. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was this done with the knowledge and consent of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. They issued an official transfer from Seattle to 
Los Angeles. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did you have to obtain the consent of the Commu- 
nist Party for such a move ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. And how did you reestablish contact with the Com- 
munist Party in the city of Los Angeles ? 

48060 — 54 — pt. 1 4 



6008 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Cohen. By reporting to the county office and the organizational 
secretary in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Wheeler. And who was that ? 

Mrs. Cohen. That was Max Silver. 

Mr. Wheeler. Were you assigned to any particular group by Mr. 
Silver? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. He sent me out to a medical group. 

Mr. Wheeler. How long were you a member of this medical group ? 

Mrs. Cohen. About a year, I think. 

Mr. Wheeler. And do you recall who the members of the medical 
group were ? 

Mrs. Cohen. The ones that I can remember now are Dr. Louise 
Li^ht, Dr. Murray Abowitz, Dr. Leo Bigelman, Bea Goodlaw, the 
wile of Dr. Goodlaw, Dr. Edward Goodlaw, Dr. Simson Marcus, Dr. 
Hy Engelberg, Dr. Gordon Kosenblum, and his wife, Dr. Jacob 
Druckman, Dr. Sidney Druckman, and Dr. Jack Nedelman. 

Mr. Wheeler. All of these doctors practice in the city of Los 
Angeles ? 

Mrs. Cohen. As far as I know ; yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. And you attended Communist Party meetings with 
them ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes. 

Mr, Wheeler. Did you hold any position in this group? 

Mrs. Cohen. No. 

ISfr. Wheeler. After you left his group, which would be approxi- 
mately tlie first quarter of 1943, what did you do then ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Then I joined the Wacs. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did you discuss your enlistment in the Wacs with 
the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Cohen. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. How long were you in the Wacs ? 

Mrs. Cohen. About 7 months. 

Mr. Wheeler. And what type of discharge did you receive? 

Mrs. Cohen. Honorable discharge. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was there any Communist activity in your behalf 
while you were a member of the Wacs ? 

Mrs. Cohen. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was there any evident to you in the Wacs ? 

Mrs. Cohen. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did you reaffiliate with the Communist Party after 
your discharge? 

Mrs. Cohen. When I came back I was approached by Elizabeth 
Glenn, who was having trouble witli a musicians' group in Hollywood, 
and she asked me if I would help reorganize it. 

Mr. Wheeler. This would be in the fall of 1943? Is that the ap- 
proximate date ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Approximately ; yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was this the last group that you were in? 

Mrs. Cohen. I think that when that group either disbanded or was 
sent to another section, I was sent to a neighborhod group, which I 
attended irregularly, and dropped out fairly quickly. I had really 
been disinterested in taking any part in Communist Party activity 
after I came back, and had taken the previous job only under urging. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6009 

Mr. Wheeler. How long were you associated with the musicians' 
group of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Cohen. About 6 months, I think. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did you have any success in the reorganization of 
this group ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Not much. They were pretty disorganized, a disor- 
ganized outfit, and weren't really interested in functioning as a group. 

Mr. Wheeler. And who were the members of this group, as you 
recall ? 

Mrs. Cohen. I recall a few of them : Morris Browda, Sam Siegel, 
•Cyril Towbin, and Herbert Offner. 

Mr. Wheeler. Were these musicians members of the Musicians' 
Union ? 

Mrs. Cohen. I believe they were. 

Mr. Wheeler. Now, I believe you said you were subsequently trans- 
ferred, or became a member of the neighborhood group. 

Mrs. Cohen. Yes, that is right. 

Mr> Wheeler. Do you recall the official designation of this group ? 

Mrs. Cohen. No, I don't. 

Mr. Wheeler. Approximately how long were you a member? 

Mrs. Cohen. I probably attended for about 6 months, irregularly, 
and dropped out completely. 

Mr. Wheeler. Would you, approximately, place a date of your 
severance from the Communist Party in the fall of 1944 — is that ap- 
proximately correct ? 

Mrs. Cohen. That's the latest that my recollection is, as to the latest 
time that I was going. Whether or not they kept my name into 1945, 
I don't know. They often did that. But late 1944 or early 1945 is 
the best of my recollection when I dropped out — as a gradual process. 

Mr. Wheeler. How many members were in this neighborhood 
group ? 

Mrs. Cohen. About 20. 

Mr. Wheeler. And do you recall the identity of any of them ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Bea Hammer is the one I remember best, because we 
held most of the meetings at her house. She was the wife of Al Ham- 
mer. And those two were the only ones that I got really acquainted 
with, and the only ones whose names I remember. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall Al Hammer by another name? 

Mrs. Cohen. I didn't. 

Mr. Wheeler. What was his profession ? 

Mrs. Cohen. Actor. 

Mr. Wheeler. You have testified that you attended these meetings 
irregularly of this last group which you remember of, for approxi- 
mately 6 months. What caused your irregular attendance? 

Mrs. Cohen. I was very, very much fed up with everything that 
was going on, completely disillusioned with the Communist Party as 
I had thought it was when I joined. I was convinced that it was domi- 
nated, actually and ideologically, by the Soviet Union. I had become 
very much antagonized by individuals and the way they behaved, by 
the party line. I was never much of a theoretician or politician, ac- 
tually. The idealism with which I went into it had rubbed off and 
I decided any reasons that I thought I had for joining were completely 
invalid. 



6010 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

At one time I had thought that the party was a legitimate political 
party for American people, and I knew then, and know now, that 
that is not true. 

Mr. Wheeler. AVhat do you base this conclusion on ? 

Mrs. Cohen. The first reason, I suppose, is the complete switch 
that this party would make, ideologically, every time the Soviet Union 
would make a switch. It was like the tail of a dog being wagged by — 
that's an awfully mixed-up metaphor — as if this country was being 
wagged by the Soviet Union ; and I wasn't for that. It was probably 
immediately at that time influenced by the ousting of Earl Browder, 
which was simply one indication of the domination of the American 
party by the Soviet Union, because the theoretical line of it, that this 
was an American party and that it would live side by side with the 
Soviet Union, was discarded. 

Mr. Wheeler. You have mentioned the Duclos letter. How did 
that change the policy of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Cohen. The Duclos letter, which originated with Jacques Du- 
clos in France, a French Communist, indicated that the Browder 
theory that communism and capitalism could live side by side was 
totally incorrect ; that the Communist Party of the United States had 
been wrong all the time. Earl Browder, as its exponent, was fired ; 
and the American party was supposed to go back to the first princi- 
ples of revolution activity and the overthrow of capitalism and, 
therefore, became an immediate threat to the Government of the 
United States. 

This was so far removed from the concept of the democratic front 
which had been advanced by the Communist Party in 1935 — although 
I now became convinced that this was an underlying aim of the party 
all along, that the democratic front was the phase which it had as- 
sumed at that time to win support among the American people. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you have anything else that you would like to say 
for the record ? 

Mrs. Cohen. I would like to say that at the time that I was in the 
Army I was appointed an undercover security person. The job that 
I had was to report weekly any conversations or activity which I 
might hear or observe which were contrary to the interests of the 
United States, or interfere with the prosecution of the war. '\Vliat they 
had in mind might have been talk within the Women's Army Corps, or 
talk of civilians that we might hear ; and we were to report all of those 
things. It could have been either Fascist or Communist, anything 
which would seem to be un-American must be reported. I was diligent 
in making my reports, without having anything specific to report. At 
that time, I think I was unaware of any Communist Party activity 
which was detrimental to the United States, but if I had known it I 
would have certainly reported it. 

Mr. Wheeler. How do you explain your reassociation with the 
Communist Party after your discharge ? 

Mrs. Cohen. When I came back I was extremely reluctant and un- 
willing to do any work. When I left I felt that I was severing all 
connections. As far as I was concerned, I was out of the party. 

The pressure which was put on me was not of a political nature but 
was of an organizational nature, and I protested against it but they 
felt that I could, simply as a chairman of a difficult group, hold them 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6011 

together for a short period of time, and I finally consented. I was 
unhappy in the job. I feel I was unsuccessful in doing anything about 
it, and wished to leave as soon as I could. 

Mr, Wheeler. Mrs. Cohen, on behalf of the members of the sub- 
committee, and the members of the committee, I would like to express 
our sincere thanks for you appearing here today and giving us the 
benefit of the knowledge you possess of the Communist Party. Your 
testimony here will be of great assistance to us in our forthcoming 
investigation of communism in the State of Washington. 

It is only by people like you who give information of this type to 
Congress that we are able to operate successfully in our obligation 
under the laws of the United States, and I wish to thank you. And 
good luck. 

Mrs. Cohen. Thank you. 

(Whereupon the executive session was adjourned subject to the call 
of the Chair. ) 



INYESTirxATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NORTHWEST AEEA— Part 1 



FRIDAY, MAY 28, 1954 

United States House of Representatives, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Los Angeles, Calif. 

executive session ^ 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to call, at 
9 : 30 p. m., in room 1484, Statler Hotel, Los Angeles, Calif., Hon, Clyde 
Doyle presiding. 

Committee member present : Representative Clyde Doyle. 

Staff member present : William A. Wheeler, investigator. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to 
give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mr. Wildman. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF LEONARD BASIL WILDMAN 

Mr. Doyle. May the record show this is a subcommittee of the 
House Un-American Activities Committee authorized under Public 
Law 601; the subcommittee consisting of Representative Jaclvson, 
member of the committee, of California, and Representative Doyle, a 
member of the committee. Mr. Jackson is temporarily absent from the 
committee, and committee member Doyle is presiding at this hearing 
at the request of Representative Jackson, the subcommittee chairman. 

Mr. Wheeler. State your full name. 

Mr. Wildman. Leonard Basil Wildman. 

Mr. Wheeler. And where were you born ? 

Mr. Wildman. Minatare, Nebr. 

Mr. Wheeler. And would you relate your educational background ? 

Mr. Wildman. Grade school ; 3iA years of high school. 

Mr. Wheeler. And where did you attend high school ? 

Mr. Wildman. Billings, Mont., and Spokane, Wash. 

Mr. Wheeler. What is your occupation ? 

Mr. Wildman. I am a switchman. 

Mr. Wheeler. And would you give us a brief resume of your em- 
ployment background ? 

Mr. Wildman. Well, I worked for the — when I was a youngster, 
out of high school — National Youth Administration part time for a 
period of time, a year or so, I think. Then I worked one summer on a 
ranch. Then I went to work as a warehouseman and I worked as a. 



^ Released by the committee. 

6013 



6014 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

warehouseman for a number of years before the war for various 
concerns in Seattle. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well now, where did you live, say, from 1933 until 
you moved to California ? 

Mr, WiLDMAN. I lived in Spokane. For a short time I lived in 
Tacoma. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, will you give us the dates as near as you can 
recall ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I lived in Spokane until the early summer of 1938. 
I lived in Tacoma for about 3 months. And then after that I lived 
in Seattle. Oh yes, there was a time when I was back in New York, 
prior to going to Seattle. 

Mr. Wheeler. Have you ever been a member of the Young Com- 
munist League ? 

Mr, WiLDMAN. Yes, 

Mr, Wheeler, When did you join the Young Communist League? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. To the best of my recollection it was in the early part 
of 1933. 

Mr, Wheeler, And in what city ? 

Mr, WiLDMAN. Spokane, Wash, 

Mr, Wheeler. What was your age at that time ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN, Sixteen, 

Mr. Wheeler, Were you a student in high school ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN, Yes. 

Mr, Wheeler, Plow long were you a member of the YCL ? 

Mr, WiLDMAN, I think I was a member until — I am not quite sure 
of the year — 1941, or — about 1941, 1 think it was, 

Mr, Wheeler. During the period of time you were a member of the 
YCL, were you also a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Part of the time. 

Mv. Wheeler. When did you first become affiliated with the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. When I was 19. 

Mr, Wheeler, Approximately 1936 ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. When did you leave the Communist Party ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN, In 1944, 

Mr. Wheeler. In what city ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Seattle, 

Mr. Wheeler, Since that time have you had any affiliation with the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN, No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Getting back to Spokane in the year 1933, would you 
advise the committee under what circumstances you joined the Young 
Communist League? We would like the background of the events 
that led you into the movement. 

INIr. WiLDiNiAN. Well, I was— my family at that time, they were left- 
wing; I mean, they had been liberal minded, and things were kind of 
tough in those days and I think at that time we were on relief. And 
the family heard about — I think it was unemployment councils at that 
time, and it wasn't too long before myself and my brothers were in; 
that is, either in the Communist Party or the Young Communist 
League. 



COMIilUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6015 

Mr. Wheeler. Well now, was there an active movement in the high 
school of Young Communist League members, or were you an 
exception ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No ; there were a few. There was a very, very — it 
was a very, very small group from the Young Communist League, and 
almost all of them were high school kids. 

Mr. Wheeler. What were the main activities of the Young Com- 
munist League from 1933 until 1936, when you actually joined the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, a lot of study groups. There was social activi- 
ties. There was distribution of leaflets. And there was — well, things 
of that order. It was a young group, as I said, mostly 16- or 17-year- 
old kids. And we sponsored a few dances and a few fairs ; and we had 
our study groups and our meetings. And that was — well, I don't think 
there was too much else doing in this group. 

Mr. Wheeler. What were the objectives of the Young Communist 
League during this period of time? 

Mr. Wildman. Well, looking back, why, I think their objectives 
were to teach young people to become Marxists, to become Communists, 
to some day become members of the Communist Party and to accept 
the teachings of the — well, of Marx and of Lenin, and so on, and have 
their own national leaders of the Communist movement. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well now, what is the relationship between the 
Young Communist League and the Communist Party? 

Mr. Wildman. Well, they accepted the guidance and the directions 
of the Communist Party, and they cooperated on the main campaigns 
at the time. If you asked me the campaigns, why — it's a long time 
ago. Mainly relief and jobs of that kind. 

And in Spokane at that time there was quite a strong movement 
of the unemployed. The strongest portion of it was under the leader- 
ship of the Socialist Party, and that was a very large organization; 
and I think the Unemployed Councils, they also had quite a large 
membership. I remember some of the things that were done, such 
things as cutting off the lights of the unemployed, and then turning 
them back on. I think there was a period of several months when 
both unemployed groups cooperated and picketed the Washington 
Water & Power Co. for a period of, I think, it was several months, 
and night and day ; and I remember that that year they sponsored a 
joint May Day rally, and there were quite a few fellows in the May 
Day parade. It had a lot of support. And if I remember rightly, 
why, quite a few of the AFL unions, and so on, joined in ; as well as 
the unemployed and the Socialist Party and the Unemployed Coun- 
cils and so on. 

There were some court cases in connection with the prosecution of 
people caught turning on lights again. There were, oh, things of that 
kind going on during that period. And, well, for myself, I was a 
youngster with a lot of excitement and I felt that the thing was just — 
I mean, people shouldn't be out of lights because they didn't have the 
money. Well, it was a bad situation. You know. You went through 
it yourself. You know the circumstances in a lot of communities at 
that time. 

Mr. Wheeler. The poor economic difficulties of the country were 
responsible for your joining to a high degree? 



6016 cojvnviuNiST activities in the pacific northwest area 

Mr. WiLDMAx. I think the justice of the thing. I mean, I felt, 
well, personally I always have felt "Do unto your neighbor like you 
would have him do unto you"' — I mean, be a good neighbor, that that 
is a pretty good yardstick of behavior. Of course, I didn't think I 
was misdirected or was off on a tangent. I know it was now. But in 
^ lot of cases well, there was a lot of human suffering and misery and, 
well, trying to do something about it, it all appealed to me. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall who the leaders of the Young Com- 
munist League were ? 

Mr. WiLDMAisr. Well, looking back, I forget a lot of the names. I 
know that the FBI and the Immigration Department submitted a lot 
of names to me. Some of them I recognized after I saw them in front 
of me. But a lot of them, looking back I can only remember the first 
names, and the last names in a few cases. I am not completely definite 
in my mind if they are exactly right. It seems to me, a kid by the 
name of Sedlock. 

INIr. Wheeler. Would you spell it ? We are interested more in the 
leaders rather than the high school students. 

Mr. WiLDMAisr. He was very active. He wasn't a student. He was 
a kid who had been on the bum, been riding the rods, and if I remem- 
ber rightly, why, he slept at the Hall, at the Unemployed Council's 
headquarters and he was quite active. Either Sedlock or Sedgelock; 
1 am not quite sure. I just have an impression in my mind, either 
S-e-d-g-e-1-o-c-k, or might be S-e-d-1-o-c-k. I am not quite sure. 

There was a girl by the name of Winnie. She was the financial 
secretary. I am not sure of her last name. The fact is I don't remem- 
ber it. And she has married since then, I am quite sure. 

There was a girl by the name of Salina. I don't remember her last 
name. And there was a couple of brothers that were fairly active in 
it; one was John, and I think Rodney was his last name. I am not 
quite sure of that, though. 

Then there was my brother. He was in it for a little while; my 
brother Harlow Wildman. 

Mr. DoYi.E. Was he older than you ? 

Mr. Wildman. Yes, 3 years. Then there's quite a few kids that — 
there was an Italian kid by the name of Frank. I don't remember 
his last name. He is dead now, though. He got killed in a dynamite 
blast. 

There was a Douglas Haggin later on. He was very young. He 
wasn't even 16, though. You might check the spelling. 

Oh, there was some other kids, but it is a long, long time ago. 

Mr. Wheeler. Now, in 1936 you became a member of the Com- 
munist Party, is that right ? 

Mr. Wildman. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. Would you explain the transition from the YCL to 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Wildman. Well, I don't know exactly who it was — was prob- 
ably, if I remember rightly, and I am not sure about this now, I think 
it was probably the Northwest organizer for the Communist League 
that asked me to join, and I think at that time it was Max Olson. I 
don't think that was his right name, but that is the name he went by. 

Mr. Wheeleu. After joining the Communist Party were you as- 
signed to any particular unit or branch of the club? 



-COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6017 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, mainly my job was, I attended a few meet- 
ings at that time, but mainly my job, what I did was, I became or- 
ganizer of the Young Communist League in Spokane. 

Mr, Wheeler. How long were you organizer for the YCL ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, up until the time I left there in the middle 
of 1938. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did you consider the movement a success? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Not very. It was — I think our top membership 
probably was, oh, about 35, counting everybody. 

Mr. Wheeler. Were these mostly students in high school? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Mostly young kids of my age or younger. 

Mr. Wheeler. Now, what appealed to these young people ? What 
was your approach to get them to join the YCL ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Most of them were members of families whose 
parents were on Unemployed Councils or in some cases whose parents 
were members of the Communist Party; and so in the main it was 
parental blessing and appeal. I think a lot of them — of course, I 
don't know any of them now that are still in, that I know of — I think 
it was a good time, I mean dances, and there was a couple of years 
when we had a summer camp out on one of the lakes there, and we 
liad weekend parties at the lakes and things of that kind. And we 
had a hall that we used. I remember that we took and sanded the 
thing and waxed it. We used to go to the dances, sponsored by vari- 
ous organizations around the movement ; and then we would have our 
meetings and study groups and, w^ell, I think the fact — I don't know 
of any of them now that are in. It never made a very lasting impres- 
sion on any of them ; I mean, the ideology didn't really capture their 
minds. There might be some that are still influenced, I don't know. 
It has been a long time since I have been back, and there's been a lot 
■of water under the bridge. But as far as I know, I just have the 
impression in my mind that none of them are in the Communist move- 
ment now, and I think that they straightened out and got a better 
viewpoint on life, and, well, that's — you gather my mentioning that — 
well, I am just trying to put it across what I mean, that as far as the 
objectives of the Communists were concerned, they weren't very suc- 
cessful in the long run. 

Mr. Wheeler. Who were the leaders of the Communist Party dur- 
ing that period of time, 1936 to 1938 ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I have been thinking for a long time. There was a 
fellow, the first one that I knew of, I think it was the first, was a fellow 
by the name of Ed Leavitt, L-e-a-v-i-t-t. Now, somewhere in the back 
of my mind — this is a footnote on him — I think he was expelled later 
on. I am not sure. 

Mr. Wheeler. What was his position ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN, He was section organizer. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall anyone else in an official position ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, there was a young fellow by the name of Bud 
Cook. He was from an old-time Spokane family, I understood, and 
I think later on he was also expelled, later on for a short while. 

There was a fellow by the name of Van Orman who was the leader 
of the Communist Party in Spokane, but I think later on he also was 
expelled. 

Mr. Wheeler. J. H. Van Orman ? 



6018 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I think that is his name, yes. I am not sure, but 
I have heard that he moved out to the west coast somewhere from 
S])okane in the early 1940's. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall Bud Cook's position ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I don't. He was active. He was their sponsored 
candidate for mayor at one time, and so on. 

Then, later on, I think it was about 1936 or 1937, they started to 
recruit people that were, well, were unemployed, that had, some of 
them I guess had semiprofessional backgrounds, and so on. There 
was Barbara Hartle and her husband John Hartle; James Haggin, 
who now works for Dave Beck in the Teamsters Union, I think, in 
Seattle. I think Beck knows of his record. 

Mr. Wheeler. For the record he is international representative of 
the teamsters at Portland. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. There was a whole number of them that came in 
during that time. The Communist Party in Spokane never did be- 
come too large ; I guess maybe 80 to 100 members. 

Mr. Doyle. How old a man was this man Hagen, that is now with 
the teamsters, at the time you knew him ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. He must have been in his early thirty's. 

Mr. Doyle. At that time ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. He impressed me as being old. At 16 years old^ 
why, anyone over 25 or 30 is much older. But looking back, why, I 
think that he was quite a bit — well, must have been about 30, 35, some- 
where in there. He couldn't have been much older. That is just a 
guess. He had, I think — well, he had three adopted children by his 
wife. She had 3 children when they married, and they had 1. The 
son was 2 or 3 years old. 

Mr. Wheeler. In our investigation in the Northwest, Mr. Doyle, 
it was determined that the following people were members of the 
Communist Party in Spokane. 

(Addressing witness). Now, I would like to ask you if you have 
knowledge of these people : Stan Ivers, I-v-e-r-s ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No, that doesn't strike a responsive chord. 

Mr. Wheeler. Roy Lampitt, L-a-m-p-i-t-t? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No, not a Lampitt. 

Mr. Wheeler. John Clark ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. That strikes a responsive chord. I dimly remember 
a name like that — Clark. 

Mr. Wheeler. Herman Schultz ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Mabel Wlieeler ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. Will you further describe Maybelle "\^^ieeler? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, I think her husband and she were active either 
in the Workers' Alliance or Unemployed Councils for a time; but I 
tliink that there was — after a time, why, they got disgusted and had a 
falling out with the leadership and they quit. That's their daughter, 
incidentally, I think, it was her daughter, she was a member of the 
Young Communist League for a while, but she was interested in a good 
time, and that was about it. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6019 

Mr. Doyle. You mentioned John Clark and you said you dimly re- 
member. Dimly remember what? Was he a member of the Com- 
munist Party or the YCL ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No, I don't know. I place the name. I don't visual- 
ize any connection with the face, but the name is familiar ; and, well, I 
couldn't swear to it but the impression I have in association with the 
name was that he was a member. 

Mr. Doyle. Of what? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. The Communist Party. 

Mr. Doyle. At the time you were ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. At the time I was. 

Mr. Wheeler. Grace Dahlke, D-a-h-1-k-e ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I associate her — I think that she was a widow, I am 
not sure — but I think that she was active in the unemployed move- 
ment. There has been so darn much water under the bridge, you 
know, but I would say, at the very least, she was sympathetic, if not 
actually a member. That's been, you know, it's about 17, 18, 19 years 



ago. 



Mr. Wheeler. Harold Eddings ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. I knew another Eddings. Is it O, K. 



Mr. Wheeler. If you know him as a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Ralph Eddings, but it wasn't in Spokane. 

Mr. Wheeler. Where was he ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Tacoma. 

Mr. Wheeler. Earl Carpenter? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. How do you associate him with the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, he was a commercial artist. I think he worked 
for several stores there in Spokane as a decorator, you know, as a store 
decorator, and so on. And I think that he used to do a lot of art work 
and poster work and so on for the unemployed movement, and also, I 
guess, for the Communist Party. 

Mr. Wheeler. Emma Carpenter? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes, his wife. She wasn't ever very active — her 
health. I think she had a bad heart. 

Mr. Wheeler. Vernon Riley ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. 

Mr, Wheeler. Lawrence Breman, B-r-e-m-a-n? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Jan Meyer ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Carolyn Haggin ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. I already mentioned her name. 

Mr. Wheeler. Art Furnish, F-u-r-n-i-s-h ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes, I have been trying to remember his name all 
week. He was at one time, I think, either the chairman — I think he 
was chairman of the Unemployed Council or Workers' Alliance in 
Spokane. 

Mr. Doyle. And a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Never a very active member. I mean, he was a — 
well, I think he was interested in bread and butter, and I don't think 



^ 



6020 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

the Communist ideology made a very deep impression on him^ 

Mr. Doyle. I notice you seem to associate several of these people 
with the Unemployed Council and with the Communist Party. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Actually, most of them were unemployed at that 
time. 

Mr. Doyle. Was the Communist Party membership in control of 
the Unemployed Council ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I think a lot of them were leaders of the Unem- 
ployed Council. I think they pretty well determined and directed thfr 
policy. 

Mr. Wheeler. Harry Crumbaker ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. That strikes — I tliink I remember him as a — yes 
I do, I remember him as a member of the Communist Party. And 
his sister — I forget her first name — was a member of the Young Com- 
munist League for a while. 

Mr. Wheeler. Red PeiTy ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Red Perry ? Yes ; also a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall his occupation ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Gosh, I don't. Red Perry; a lumber worker — r 
don't know. I think at the time I knew him he was, I don't know 
whether he went out and worked in the woods when he could get a job,, 
or what. But I have the impression that he was a single man, middle- 
aged man, red hair, ruddy complexion, fairly heavyset. 

Mr. Wheeler. A1 Jones ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Joe Simmons ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. C. P. Johnson ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. Would you further identify Mr. Johnson ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, I think he was a lumberjack most of the time; 
worked in the woods, or as a construction worker. He was quite a tall 
man ; I suppose pretty close to 200 pounds. I think that he was prob- 
ably at that time middle aged already. I would say that I think his 
hair was turning delinitely gray. 

Mr. Wheeler. Joe Burner ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN, Joe Burner? That was the Bernard or something I 
think I mentioned earlier. I have been trying to think of that name- 
because I turned it over to the FBI. I thouglit it was Bernard, but it 
is Burner. I wasn't certain of it. But Joe Burner, I think — gosh, I 
was tliinking it was Georjie Burner. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did you know him as a Communist ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. Joe Winburn ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. He was a member for quite a while, but h& 
was kicked out. He was a man, oh, in his fifties at that time. As I 
learned later, just a rumor on my part, he had been a rumrunner from 
Canada, deputy sheriff from Montana — had quite a colorful career; 
quite a hardboiled customer. 

Mr. Wheeler. Elizabeth Schneider? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. An elderly spinster, I think, that owned som& 
property in Spokane. I think she owned a small apartment house.. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6021 

I don't know. Looking back, I think she was a member. She wasn't 
active, but she was sympathetic, I know. 

Mr. Wheeler. Ed Lehman ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. There was a Lehman. I don't know his first name. 
He was a member of the Communist Party in Spokane. But he signed 
up to go overseas and fight against Franco, but he changed his mind 
and he wrote a series of articles for the Hearst newspapers, I think, in 
Boston. 

Mr. Wheeler. Ruth Van Orman ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. She's the wife of J. H. Van Orman. 

Mr. Wheeler. Ernest Wallace ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Wallace? I am not certain about that. No, I 
couldn't be definite about it. 

Mr. Wheeler. Mr, Doyle, this concludes my interrogation regard- 
ing the Spokane area. Do you have any questions you might ask ? 

Mr. Doyle. You mentioned three men who had been expelled, you 
thought. Do you recall the names of those three men ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Haggin. 

Mr. Doyle. Why was he expelled ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I don't know too much of the background of it. I 
think 

Mr. Doyle. Was that during your time of membership ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I wasn't in Spokane at the time. I think it was 
from accounts that I have seen since, and from some of the material 
that they asked me to check over, the Immigration Department or 
FBI. I think it was in 1939, or somewhere around in there. 

Mr. DoYLE. Did the older Communist Party send in older people 
in those meetings in any way to teach and instruct ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Generally not. On weekend parties or something 
like that someone would go along to chaperon or something like that ; 
or perhaps an older one would come in to speak on some subject. But^ 
generally, my impression was that it was a gathering of young people. 

Mr. Doyle. I think that is all. 

Mr. Wheeler. Were you transferred to Tacoma ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN, I think it was the Young Communist League with,, 
I think, the O, K. of the Communists, 

Mr, Wheeler. Did you move to Tacoma because you desired to or 
were requested by the Communist Party ? 

Mr, WiLDMAN, Well, I desired to, and I was requested to. 

Mr, Doyle, By the party ? 

Mr, WiLDMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. You stated you lived in Tacoma approximately 3 
months during 1938. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. Now, did you hold any official position with the 
Communist Party during this 3-month period in Tacoma ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I think I was a member of the county executive 
board: and I was an organizer — the organizer for the Young Com- 
munist League there. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall the other members of the county 
executive board in Tacoma during that time ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I can remember some of them. There was a fellow 
by the name of Ellison. 



6022 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr, Wheeler. Do you recall his first name ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No, let's see. I don't. 

Mr. Wheeler. Does Victor Ellison 

Mr. WiLDMAN. That's it, Vic Ellison, as he was called. 

There was Ralph Eddings. I think it is E-d-d-i-n-g-s. And a 
fellow by the name of Green. 

Mr, Wheeler. John Greenman ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. John Greenman? That sounds like it. Yes, I am 
pretty sure of it. 

Mr. Dotle. Are you sure enough to, under oath, identify him posi- 
tively ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, if I could see the man, yes, I could either say 
"Yes" or "No" under oath. I think he was — he was called Johnnie, 
and I am quite positive his last name was Greenman. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall anyone else on the county executive 
board ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Oh, let's see. I think Naomi Ellison, Victor Elli- 
son's wife, was. And I have got pictures in my mind of some others 
but I forget their names. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well now, who else did you meet in Tacoma as a 
Communist other than the people you have previously identified as 
members of the county executive board ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. My brother Harlow w^as there at that time. Then 
there was, I think, a Jack Mansfield going to college there. He organ- 
ized the college branch of the Young Communist League. 

Mr. Wheeler. What college was that, Mr. Wildman ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Oh, it's a small college there. 

Mr. DoTLE. In Tacoma ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Jack Mansfield, incidentally, the last I heard they 
committed him to an asylum or sanitarium. He went off his rocker. 
He was quite brilliant. I think that he almost got a Rhodes scholar- 
ship, but I think it was his personality features that entered into it. 
There was another young fellow there that was recruited and did get a 
scholarship at some university in Europe. I have a recollection. I 
don't remember his name. I don't think he stayed in long afterward 
because I never heard of him. It was a 3-year scholarship at the Uni- 
versity of Budapest or some such place. 

Mr. Wheeler. You don't recall the organization that sponsored 
him? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, from that small college, if I remember rightly, 
there was a young fellow who got a Rhodes scholarship, and then a 
scholarship, I am pretty sure, for the University of Budapest, 3-year 
scholarship. I was only there for a short time and I only met a few. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did the fact that these students were Communists 
have any bearing on the fact that they received these scholarships? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Definitely not. At that time Budapest — this is pre- 
war, and I don't think that — I don't think that the branch of the 
Young Coimnunist League there was organized, started to organize 
when I was there, when I first came, and they were highly successful. 

Mr. Doyle. Was that Puget Soinul College? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. That's it, the College of Puget Sound. 

Mr. Doyle. There was such at Taconiu, 1 remember hearing years 
ago. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6023 

Mr. WiLDMAX. Well, I think that this group that they had there, 
they managed to recruit most of the leaders of the campus into the 
Young Communist League. 

Mr. Doyle. What year was that? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. 1938. 

Mr. Wheeler. Anyone else you now can recall as being a member 
of the Communist Party in Tacoma? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Naomi Ellison's sister. But she is married, and I 
don't know her name. We developed, in a very short time there, quite 
a good membership in the college branch, if I remember right, 20 to 
30 members; and most of them were, well, you know, so-called big 
shots on the campus. 

Mr. Wheeler. How about the faculty? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No, none that I know of. I am pretty sure that none 
of the faculty were in. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you yourself participate in any of the recruiting of 
any of these people? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Not of the college kids. Oh, I met with a few of 
them from time to time, but they were pretty well apart. 

Mr. Doyle. Who was the recruiter? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Jack Mansfield. 

Mr. Doyle. Jack Mansfield ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. There was a lot of those kids, I would run across 
them on the street and I would walk up and say, "Hello." 

Mr. Doyle. Did you say where this Jack Mansfield was now? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. The last I heard, in 1942 or 1944, he went off his 
rocker and was committed to a State institution. State hospital. 

Mr. Doyle. Up north there ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I think, oh, to one of the asylums there, State 
asylums. 

Mr. Wheeler. Is there any further information concerning Tacoma 
that you could give ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, there is a lot of — ^I don't have those lists of 
names that were shown to me. I identified quite a few from that. 
But, well, they slipped my mind again. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did you know Milf ord Sutherland ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Robert Decker ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. The name is very, very familiar, but I am not sure 
about it. 

Mr. Wheeler. John Collins ? 
Mr. WiLDMAN. John Collins ? No. 
Mr. Wheeler. Clara Saari, S-a-a-r-i ? 
Mr. WiLDMAN. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Now, I understand from your testimony that after 
this 3-month period in Tacoma that you moved to Seattle. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I went back to the National Training School. 

Mr. DoYLE. "\^niat National Training School? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Conducted by the Communist Party. 

Mr. Doyle. "Wliere? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. At Lake Unity, N. Y. 

Mr. Wheeler. That is up on the Hudson ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. It is up in the Catskills — or is it ? Right near Ver- 
mont, up near Vermont there, the place where they make hats. 

48069 — 54 — pt. 1 5 



6024 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr, Wheeler. Who selected you to attend the National Training 
School? 

Mr. WiLDMAx. I think I was selected on the basis of — liad to be 
approved, I think, by the — if I remember rightly, on the basis of each 
district or each area were eligible to send so many people, and I was 
one that was recommended. 

Mr. Wheeler. Were there other students selected for this school 
other than yourself ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Not from Washington. 

Mr. Wheeler. Not from the Washington area ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Would you go into detail, describe in detail what 
transpired at the National Training School, the courses you took, 
who you met there, your faculty, length of time you were there, and 
give us everything that you have knowledge of ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. There must have been about 30 or 40 students from 
all over the country. It was, I think, about a 5-month full-time school. 
We were there at Camp Unity in a hotel, ate in the cafeteria. And, oh, 
they taught trade-union history, political economy. They spent some 
time on American history, The}'^ spent about a month, I think, on 
the principles of Marxism and Leninism. The structure of American 
political parties. And I think that more or less — there might have 
been a few other things they delved into, but those were the main sub- 
jects that they covered. 

Mr. Wheeler, Do you recall who the teachers were ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Oh, there was a fellow, the head of the school, who 
was named George — I saw his name in some of the papers a few j^ears 
ago, George something or other, oldtime Communist from New York ; 
been an old Socialist before the Communist Party. I have seen his 
name in the papers and I recognized it at the time. He was a member 
of the National Educational Commission, or something, at that time, 
I think that he was probably pretty well known as an open Com- 
munist, along history. I think he went through the Lawrence textile 
strike — -when was it — the old Trade Union Unity League at that time 
and one of the leaders of it. He was a small man. Gosh, he must be 
really along in years now. He was very, very gray, and I suppose he 
was pretty close to 60 then. 

Mr. Doyle. You said they put in about a month in studying Lenin- 
ism and Marxism ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN, As a subject. 

Mr. Doyle. You were there about 5 months ? 

Mr, WiLDMAN. Yes, sir. Well, all this was twisted, from the Com- 
munist standpoint. 

Mr. Doyle. Did that include, or did any subject include a study 
of the Soviet Union, a history of Russia ? 

INIr. WiLDMAN, Well, definitely yes; the history of the Communist 
Party. The Soviet Union was a part of that. I think, also, I can 
amend my statement that they devoted quite a little time, I think 2 
weeks or so, if I remember, to the history of the Communist Party of 
the Soviet Union. It was at that time they were putting out a book on 
the History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, 

Mr, Wheeler, Do you recall any other of the instructors ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, from time to time there was Alexander 
Bittelman ; there was Earl Browder. There were various other mem- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6025 

bers of the national committee in the Communist Party. I think Bill 
Foster even taught a few classes ; and Kobert Minor and Gil Green. I 
think from time to time, why, most of the leadership of the Communist 
Party in the New York area conducted a class or so. 

Mr, Wheeler. Can you identify any of the students attending this 
training school? 

Mr. A\"iLD3iAN. There w:is a Martha Stone. I think she was from 
New Jersey. There was — I think most of them were going under as- 
sumed names. There was a Lou Kosser from this area, Los Angeles. 

Mr. Wheeler. For the record, Mr. Rosser has appeared before the 
committee and has related his exj^eriences for the Communist Party. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. There was a colored nurse from Harlem. She was 
active in the nurses' union. I don't remember her name. There were 
several from Chicago. Most of them were young people at this school, 
and, oh, I don't remember their names. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well now, after you left the school were you assigned 
by the Communist Party to go to Seattle ? 

Mr.WiLDMAN, Yes. 

Mr. AVheeler. And yott moved, you and your family, to Seattle ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I didn't have a family ; just myself. 

Mr. Wheeler. It was under the direction of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask this question : Do you say that you were one 
of not more than 40 young persons from all over the United States 
selected by the Communist Party leadership to go to this school with 
all your expenses paid ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Including transportation ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Including transportation. 

Mr. Wheeler. Now, you arrived in Seattle in the latter part of 1938 
or the early part of 1939 ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. The middle part of 1939. I stayed over for the 
world's fair. I think it was in June of 1939 that I arrived in Seattle. 

Mr. Wheeler. And yoti left the Communist Party in 1944 ? 

Mr. AViLDMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler, Dtiring 1939 to 1944 what position did yoti hold ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, for the— I think 1939, 1940, and part of 1941, 
if I remember rightlj^ I was active in the Young Commitnist League as 
a member of the Northwest executive committee. 

Mr. Wheeler. Is that from 1939 to 1941 ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. 1939 to 1941. I was chairman of at least one branch 
of the Young Communist League. I think it was the downtown 
branch. And after 1941 I was active in the Communist Party. I was 
no longer in the Young Communist League. There was a small gi^oup 
of warehousemen who had a branch, belonged to the International 
Longshoremen and Warehousemen's Union, Local No. 9, 1 think it is. 
That includes the warehouse local in Seattle. 

Mr, Wheeler. Did 3^ou say you held a position with the warehouse- 
men's branch ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. I was the organizer of it; for a while, 
chairman. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was that the only branch you belonged to from 1941 
to 1944? 



6026 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. I forget exactly the year; but tliey liad a 
change of policy, getting away from the occupational branches or the 
industrial branches and forming community branches; and in, oh, 
about the latter part of 1942, 1 think it was, or the early part of 1943, 
I was branch chairman of the — I think it is the 33d Legislative Dis- 
trict— 33d or 37th. But I think it is the 33d. 

Mr. Wheeler. From 1941 to 1944, did you hold any position in the 
county ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes ; member of the comity committee. 

Mr. DoTLE. Of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. WiLDMAx. Yes. And the Communist Political Association. I 
am not sure of my dates on when they had the Communist Political 
Association and when they had the Communist Party, I don't remem- 
ber. I was a member of the State committee, Washington State 
Committee. And I think for one term I was vice president of the King 
County organization. 

Mr. Wheeler. Now, before we go further in this Seattle thing, 
1939, Stalin and Hitler entered the nonaggression pact. What was 
your reaction to this pact ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, at the time, why, I was pretty well imbued 
with that doctrine, and I swallowed it. I thought it sounded logical. 
It raised a lot of questions in my mind at the time, but — well, I tell 
you this : Looking back on it my mind was pretty well closed to any- 
thing except, thinking from tlie time I was, well, 16, practically, I 
was quite a convert and quite enthusiastic about the thing, because, 
well, I saw a lot of things going on around me at that time, during 
that time, and the Communists were making great strides in that area, 
had their fingers in a lot of pies, and they were — well, up until the 
time of the Finnish war between Russia, and the period when Hitler 
had the nonaggression pact, I think that in the main they were 
going — well, were working with the people that were heading in the 
m^ain stream of political action, and so on, I mean, they worked 
with a lot of Democrats, They had their influence in a lot of unions ; 
they had their influence in this Washington Commonwealth Federa- 
tion ; and directly or indirectly, why, at election time they controlled 
a lot of votes and, well, I know that at the time I felt in the swim of 
the things, more or less, because I had met a lot of people, nationally 
knoAvn people, or quite prominent. I knew who was who in politics, 
I knew a lot of them well enough to speak to them and to be spoken 
to by name in return. 

Well, very definitely I felt I had a place in the sun, so to speak, 
on this thing, 

]\Ir. Doyi.E. How about your financial compensation from the Com- 
munist Party ? Was that comparable to other salaries and pay ? Was 
it commensurate — were you donating your time? Because you said, 
''I was quite enthusiastic." Were you donating some of your time? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Donating most of it, I had a regular job most of 
the time. 

Mr. DoYLE. I mean during the daylight hours you were working at 
a trade or occupation ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN, Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Wliat trade or occupation ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Warehouseman. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6027 

Mr. DoTLE. And I assume that on all your evenings and all your 
Sundays and time off was donated to the Communist Party ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Most of them. I was quite active in the 1940 Rus- 
sian campaign. I think that was the first year — 1940 — that I dis- 
tributed — I don't think in that year they had their own candidate. 
They supported, in the main, the Democratic candidates, and I dis- 
tributed an awful lot of literature for the Democratic campaigns in 
that time; in 1940 some and in 1942 more. And in 1944, the early 
part of the campaign in King County, I handled, from the Democratic 
Party Headquarters, I handled practically all the literature going 
to the precinct committee, and from the various candidates, campaign 
offices, to the precinct committee. There was a time in the earl}' part 
of 1944 that I donated my time, except expenses, to registration of 
voters during the campaign, and things of that kind. 

Mr. Wheeler. Will you explain your activities and official posi- 
tion with the YCL in Seattle from 1939 to 1941 ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, I don't know how many members they had 
there then. They had a small South Seattle branch, Madison Street 
branch, and a branch at the university, in the university district, 
Green Lake branch; and, I think, the Downtown branch; and the 
Ballard branch. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, now, who were the other leading people in the 
YCL? 

Mr. Wtldman. There was Jim West. He was the Northwest chair- 
man, I think, at that time. I don't know whether he was a member of 
the national committee or not. I don't believe so. 

There was a young fellow by the name of Harvey — not Jackson. 

Mr. Wheeler. J-a-c-k-i-n-s ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Jackins, I think it was ; J-a-u-1-k-i-n-s, or something 
like that. 

;Mr. Wheeler. J-a-c-k-i-n-s is the correct spelling. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. And there was Marg Baxter. She was in my own 
branch of the Young Communist League. 

There was a young fellow by the name of — he was fairly active — 
Vince Spillman, I think it was. There was Mary — a French girl, 
French nurse, Mary Guilmet. And there's a lot of other names I 
would recognize — I can picture the people but I can't pin the name on 
them. 

Mr. Wheeler. What strength did the YCL have at the University 
of Washington ? 

Mr. Doyle. This was between 1939 and 1941. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Probably around 15 or 20 members. 

Mr. Doyle. Upper classmen or lower classmen ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. All kinds; freshmen, just kids going to the 
university. 

Mr. Wheeler. Who was the organizer for the university branch? 
Do you recall ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Harvey Jackins was. And then there was some 
girl, oh, later on. I can't remember her name. 

Mr. Wheeler. How about the faculty at the University of Wash- 
ington during that period of time ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, I heard 

Mr. Wheeler. We would like to have it not secondhand. I 
mean 

48069— 54— pt. 1 8 



6028 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, there was one that I know, that I have been 
told anyway, that was a member, and that was a fellow 

Mr. Doyle. Now wait just a minute. Off the record. 
(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Doyle. On the record. Continue. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Most of my work was — well, I was working on the 
job ; warehouseman. I was active in my union. And then I had this 
one, I was the chairman of this downtown branch of the Young Com- 
munist League. 

Mr. Wheeler. Who were the members of the downtown branch? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. This Marg Baxter was one. And I couldn't remem- 
ber any other names now. I remember the people, some of them — - 
a few. I would recognize their names if I saw them. I would 
recognize their photograph if I saw them. 

Mr. Wheeler. You were a member of the county committee at 
this time? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Not of the county committee of the Communist 
Party ; no. I don't think so, anyway. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, you were a member of the Northwest execu- 
tive committee of the party ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Of the Young Communist League ; yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. I see. Who were the other members of the North- 
west executive committee of the YCL ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Jim West, Jean West, Harvey Jackins. I think 
Mary Guilmet for a while. I think Mary Guilmet got married and 
started having a family and dropped out of the activity. There were, 
oh, 2 or 3 from Oregon. All three of them from Oregon were college 
students, and Keith was his first name, one of them, but he was only 
there for a while. And the girl he married, Ellen, I think her name 
was ; and then there was one more. But gosh, I don't 

Mr. Wheeler. They were students at what college ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I think at Reed. And if not all of them at Reed, 
I have the impression that one of them went to the University of 
Oregon at Eugene. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, in 1941 you left as organizer for the YCL? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was that at the request of the Communist Party, 
or did you so desire ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I desired. 

Mr. Wheeler. You desired to get off of it ? < 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. And then you became a member of the warehouse- 
men's branch of local 9 ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I think it is local 9; anyhow, the warehousemen's 
branch of the Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's. Union. 

Mr. Wheeler. For how long were you a member of this branch? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, until it was broken up and they established 
the neighborhood branches. 

Mr. Wheeler. Could you give us an estimate of the period of time ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, I think about that time, probably a little less 
than a year. 

Mr. Wheeler. Now, who were the other members of the warehouse- 
men's branch? 



COAIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6029 

Mr. WiLDMAN. A fellow by the name of Johnnie Stevens and a 
fellow by the name of Lawrence. And there was Johnnie Stevens' 
wife. Incidentally, she quit soon afterward, about 1940. When she 
split up with her husband she dropped out completely. 

There was a fellow by the name of Happy. 

Mr. Wheeler. How do you spell that? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Everyone called him Happy, H-a-p-p-y. 

There was a fellow by the name of Al. He'd been very active, oh, 
about in 1939 in the Communist Party there. But I don't remember 
his last name. He had been a full-timer. There were about 2 or 3 
more. 

Mr. Wheeler. How many were in this union ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. It was a small one. I suppose the top membership 
there was, oh, from 8 to 10. 

Mr. Wheeler. Was it the membership of the industrial section or 
the waterfront section? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I don't think they had a waterfront section when I 
was there ; just the members of the county organization, King County 
organization. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well now, as organizer of this branch, did you have 
occasion to meet with organizers of other branches in the waterfront, 
such as the longshoremen's branch ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, they had some members in the longshoremen, 
not too many, because most of the leadership there in the longshore- 
men, were, they went along with Bridges and his program. Most of 
them were not sympathetic to the Communists. 

Mr. Wheeler. Do you recall any of the longshoremen who were? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. There was Burt Nelson. There was a fellow by the 
name of Hicks, I think. There weren't too many of them. They had 
some that supported them, but they weren't members. They had the 
Richardson brothers, Tom Richardson and — but they weren't mem- 
bers at that time that I know of. 

Mr. DoYLE. Can you explain your answer a little bit ago when you 
said, "Well, they went along with Bridges and his program and most 
of them were not sympathetic to the Communists"? What did you 
mean by that ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Most of the officers and members of the executive 
board of the longshoremen in Seattle were, most of them, good Demo- 
crats or good Republicans, and you had men, like Brown, good trade- 
unionists but weren't Communists by any stretch of the imagination, 
or weren't sympathetic. I know I went to one convention in San 
Francisco of the longshoremen, and I think Burt Nelson and I were 
the only Communists in the whole delegation. There were 8 or 10 from 
the longshoremen. 

Mr. DoYLE. What did you mean when you said they went along 
with Bridges ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, they supported his policies, union policies. 
I don't think they agreed with him politically, though. And some 
of them opposed him down the line. I know that during that con- 
vention — it's a long time ago, but I seem to recall that there was some 
disagreement on the floor against some of the policies that Harry 
Bridges had recommended, and some of the boys there from Seattle 
spoke up against the position of Bridges on it. The actual member- 
ship of the Communists in those two unions, their two locals, there 



6030 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

weren't very many, not too many. I know that the list the FBI asked 
me to comment on, the overall majority of the list were not members, 
and never had been, as far as I knew, members, unless they were mem- 
bers after 1944. There are some that were. But again, why, Bridges' 
support in that union was never based on the actual membership of 
the Communists in that union ; not in Seattle, anyway. 

Well, he had a way of putting it over. 

Mr. Wheeler. Who were the members of the King County com- 
mittee of which you were a member ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Wheeler. Yes. And the Communist Political Association. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, for a while there was a fellow by the name of 
Andy Kemes, I think it is. There was Barbara Hartle. And there 
was Jolinny Daschbach. There was, not exactly the King County com- 
mittee, Henry Huff. There was Jessie — I forget her last name. There 
was John — well, I forget his last name ; John and Elsie Hall, I think it 
is. There was Burt Nelson. Gosh, at one time it was quite a large 
committee and I know I would recognize the names, but I just can't 
recall them now. Those were the leading ones. 

Mr. Wheeler. "Wlio were the members of the State committee, to 
your recollection ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, most of them were the county chairmen, and 
the addition of Henry Huff. He was the State chairman in Wash- 
ington. There was Ralph Hall. I think. Th'jre was Barbara Hartle, 
Andy Eemes, Victor Ellison, and an Irishmn a from Portland. Mur- 
pliy was his name; Jim Murphy, I think it is. I am not quite sure 
oi" the Jim. Then I think Van Orman was — not during that time; no. 
That was before. And then there was my wife at that time, Muriel 
Wildman. Oh, there were some more. There was one from Belling- 
ham — Harold. I forget his last name now. His first name is Harold. 

Mr. Wheeler. Well, I understand your position with the Com- 
munist Party in Seattle was branch chairman of the 33d Legislative 
District. 

Mr. Wildman. Yes. 

Mr. Wheeler. Would you go into detail and give the committee 
the information on the 33cl Legislative District? 

Mr. Doyle. What year was that ? 

Mr. Wheeler. 1944. 

Mr. Wildman. Well, it was a rather large branch. I suppose the 
top membership would have been between 75 and 100; maybe more. 
I am not quite sure of those figures, but it was quite a large branch. 

There was Eugene Dennett and his wife Harriet. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did Eugene Dennett hold an official position? 

Mr. Wildman. At one time he was educational director for a short 
time. But he went into the service early in — I forget exactly when he 
did go in. Maybe I am getting my figures mixed up here because 
most of the impression I have in my mind is that he was in the service 
during this period, but that his wife was financial secretary and dues 
secretary for the branch. 

And then there was Betty Smith. She was a member of the branch 
executive committee. And then there was her husband Claude Smith. 
There were some colored fellows. They were members, active mem- 
bers for a while. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6031 

Gosh, I don't know. There was Andy. That was the first name of 
one of them. Well, there was an awfully large membership. But 
that's— my stumbling block is that I can picture the people and i 
would recognize their picture immediately, but I don't remember their 

names. . , • ^i xt i.u + t 

Mr. Wheeler. As the investigation progresses m the Northwest i 

think we will be able to help you on this. You will cooperate at any 

further time? , n , i 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Definitely. There are a lot of these people, you 
know, that, well, you can recall their faces and what they look like but 
you can't— anyway, after 10 or 12 years I can't associate the name 

with them. in 

Mr. Wheeler. For what reasons did you leave the Communist 

Party ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, there was a whole number of things. One 
thing was that I was physically getting awfully tired of all this con- 
stant activity, and so on, all of this constant strain. 

Also there was, well, during 1944, and during the time I was m the 
Army, I got a glimpse and I began to think about a different life for 
myself, and all this constant thing; well, all this constant strain and 
stress and so on. 

Well, I began to realize what I was denying myself with all this 
activity that I was carrying on. 

Mr. Wheeler. What were you denying yourself ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Denying myself the right to a family, a decent home. 
In the jobs I worked in I made pretty good money, but I poured it 
down the drain, so to speak. I hadn't, outside of some war bonds, why, 
I hadn't saved anything. 

Mr. Doyle. What did you do with your money ? 

Mr. Doyle. I donated it. 

Mr. Doyle. Who to ? ... 

Mr. Whdman. To the Communist Party. I was always reaching in 
my pocket and I was always taking time off from my work to do this 
and that. And well, I was beginning to get a little bit sick and tired 
of it. And, well, being away from them for a while like I was I began 
to see what was right under my nose all the time, that all this malarkey 
that they preached, and I fell for, about following the Russian ex- 
ample and you would have a better America was, well, right now I'd 
go out and earn a living and enjoy it, and that is what they preached, 
and I began to add that up ; and looking back, I personally have always 
been a staunch union man. I believed in them. I have believed m 
them since I was that high. [Indicating.] My dad was a contractor 
at one time. His background wasn't such that it would make him a 
good union man, been a farmer and contractor, and so on, and he be- 
lieved in unions and I was brought up to believe in them, too. 

And it began to register in me that all this unnecessary strife that 
I was going through all the time in the union wasn't doing me any 
good, wasn't doing the workingman any good; and this blind alley, 
the Communist America — well, I began to add up a few of the things 
and I began to realize, finally, too late probably in a lot of cases, the fact 
that right here in America there was an opportunity for a full, rich life 
without this thing. I mean, a man can go out and make a decent liv- 
ing. He can work in a decent job. And well, I felt like Don Quixote 



6032 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

must have felt if he ever stopped to meditate on it. I was chasing 
windmills all this time. And it's proved out with me since I have quit. 

I have had my problems, but, well, I told Mr. Wheeler here there 
were a thousand little things. I actually hadn't given too much 
thought to the whole basic philosophy behind it. I know that morally 
and physically and mentally I felt relieved that I was finished, and I 
felt happy that I was able to have a family. I have two little girls now 
and a very loyal wife. I told her of my background. She is a devout 
Catholic and my little girls, she raises them as Catholics ; and well, my 
experience has been that the humanitarianism of the people like the 
various fathers that I have met, I have taken instructions from them, 
and the people like that, the ordinary everyday citizen, they have no 
ax to grind, and your neighbor, and so on, is, well, far different and 
totally opposed to the, well, so-called concern that they express, in 
their philosophy, for the workingman. 

Well, I just — the way I feel now and the way it was, and it was an 
easy thing for me : practically all my growing-up period, the formative 
period, my thoughts and so on, and I had been active, and it wasn't 
complete and definite, actually, until I decided to come out in Cali- 
fornia. 

Mr. Doyle. What year was that? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. After I got — see, I hadn't definitely made up my 
mind. In 1944 I went into the service — the first part of 1945 — and I 
served overseas in the South Pacific in the Army almost 2 years. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you send in a written resignation? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. I just never went back. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you notify them that you weren't coming back ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. 

Mr. Wheeler. Did they solicit you to come back? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I was discharged in Seattle and I saw a few of them. 
I was still on terminal leave. They were always very careful about 
that. I mean, the subject never came up about it. I had known some 
of these people. They had been my friends. 

Mr. Wheeler. But you worked right along with Burt Nelson. 
Didn't he even ask you to come back? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I don't think I saw Burt Nelson but maybe once or 
twice after that. 

Mr. Wheei.er. Didn't any of their leaders ask you? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Before my terminal leave was up I came down to 
California and I dropped in to see Barbara Hartle and say hello to 
her, because she done me a lot of favors in the past. And that was in 
1947. I probably had a cup of coffee with her, and then I was gone. 

Mr. Wheeler. That was in Seattle? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. Outside of that, why, well, 1944 marks the 
Inst of my Communist activities, the last of my membership. 

Mr. Doyle. I was interested in your saying something about follow- 
ing the Russian example and you would have a better America. Do 
you remember saying something like that? What do you mean by 
that ? Where did you get that phrase ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, I meant in the context that is what they were 
preaching. 

Mr. Doyle. The Communist Party? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. 



COMMXJNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6033 

Mr. Doyle. Did they preach it in the Young Conununist League ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Definitely. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you preach it when you were a leader? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I probably did. 

Mr. Doyle. Follow what example? The example of revolution? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I think that was in context, yes, sir — of course. 

Mr. Doyle. The same kind of revolution, one of force and violence, 

over there ? i • j 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, Mr. Doyle, you know, there has been a lot said, 
and I am convinced that they are right, about this force and violence. 
But you know, during all the time that I was in, personally, I never 
heard any of them but say they were opposed to force and violence. 
They will deny it to this day. 

Mr. Doyle. What do you mean that you are convinced they are 
right? 

Mr. WiLDM AN. At that time probably I was ; but not now. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, I know, but you were convinced of what then ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. That socialism would lead to a better America. 1 
was sold on the program. 

Mr. Doyle. Sure, I understand that. But you have said now that — 
I am referring to the subject of force and violence, and as I under- 
stand it you said probably they are right but while you were in you 
never heard them advocate that. Is that what you mean ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. What did you mean by saying that probably they are 
right? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I mean the stand of your committee, sir, about their 
advocacy and the Attorney General's office, and so on. The logical 
conclusion could but lead to force and violence ; that every place where 
they have come to power has been over the necks of the opposition. 
But I swallowed it, their line, that any violence was forced upon them, 
you know. Of course, I studied a little bit. I read a great deal, not 
only the Communist material, but also everything I can get my hands 
on. 

Mr. Doyle. Surely, I realize that. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. And it seemed logical to me at that time._ 

Mr. Doyle. Let me see if I understand it. You are telling me, in 
substance, that they were teaching, when you were in, that those who 
opposed them might sometime have to be wiped out by force and 
violence but it was force and violence that was being forced upon them, 
not that they were forcing upon other people ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, my understanding at the time, during this 
whole period, they used the example of Hitler. You know, the Com- 
munist definition of fascism, if I remember rightly, was the, well, 
the dictatorship of the big money boys; and by constitutional — by 
the use of the very instruments of the Constitution — this was their 
explanation and I accepted it at the time — that they would abolish 
and subvert that constitutionality. I mean, Hitler came to power more 
or less easily. He became chancellor of Germany. But there wasn't 
any illegality, actually. I suppose there are lawyers that could argue 
both sides, but the majority used this, and his intimidation to sub- 
vert the very thing, as chancellor, he was supposed to uphold. Well, 
that was their reasoning on violence. They would point out that. 



6034 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

I remember, in pointing it out, that a violence against Hitler, for 
example, would be the violence that they would stand for. Well, only 
a fool, actually, would go out and say, well, walk up to a man and 
say, "I feel force and violence in my heart against you," because it 
wouldn't accomplish anything; just put you in a position where you 
can go down and swear out a warrant and say, "He's threatening me." 
And sometimes in looking back I think that sometimes a mistake is 
made in regard to some of these people. There's a lot of these people 
that I have met, and they are sharpies; I mean, they have got a 
twisted mentality but it is a sharp mentality. 

Mr. D0YI.E. I wrote down here, the reason I was able to quote your 
language was that I wrote it down and you said your teaching followed 
the Russians and you would have a better x^inerica. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Sir, I meant that in the context — that is what they 
preached. 

Mr. Doyle. What was the Eussian example that you referred to? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Russian revolution, definitely. 

Mr. Doyle. Now, were you considered by yourself as a member of 
the hard core of the Russian Party ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. No. 

Mr. Doyle. I mean of the Communist Party. 

Mr. WiLDMAN". Well, my family — I am the 12th generation in this 
country. Both my grandparents fought in the Union Army. I have 
always taken a great deal of pride in my family histor}^ ; and it's been 
an American history. 

I have always been quite proud of the fact that I more or less am 
a result of the melting pot because I have French ancestry, Norwegian, 
and Irish, and I have got English, French, and Dutch and German. 

Mr. Doyle. Quite a melting pot. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. My mother was Irish and French. My grandfather, 
the maternal gi'andf ather was a doctor in the Union forces during the 
War Between the States, and he later became an attorney. And he 
was the attorney for the Union Pacific Railroad for a great many 
years, until he retired in Nebraska. 

My other grandfather fought under Custer during the Civil War 
as a sharpshooter and scout. And I know those facts. I was taught 
about them and I have been proud of my family's history. I am not 
proud, sir, about my Communist activity. But I can be sincere with 
you and say that my intentions were good. I wasn't cheap and shoddy 
about them. I have never felt that I had done anything underhanded. 
Certainly, it is nothing to be proud of. I am ashamed of it, in fact. 

Mr. Doyle. Wliat impelled you to go to the FBI, for instance? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, the FBI came to me, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Wliat impelled you to cooperate with the FBI and this 
committee, say ? Why did you feel that was appropriate ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, I think, first of all, for the good of America 
that the sooner the workings are exposed the better. 

Mr. DoYi.E. Workings of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes. I told you that I was not proud of my Com- 
munist membership in the past. I am not. At the same time, why, I 
felt that the least I could do was make some restitution. I am sincere 
about it. I don't feel like an informer because my convictions on this 
subject go deeper than that, because I have been reading about these 



COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6035 

people who say, "Well, I am not going to be an informer. I am not 
going to tell you who Joe was or who he is or anything." There is a lot 
of that. 

Of course, I am just telling you something that you know far better 
than I do. 

Mr. Doyle. But aren't you what the Communists so often say before 
a committee, aren't you a "stool pigeon" ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN". I don't think so, sir. During the time that I was 
a member I never made any particular secret of the fact of my feelings 
or convictions. I can remember in high school debate class I would 
come right out and say that I believed in communism. Certainly, I 
never made any secret of the fact of my affiliation at the time. And 
by the same token I am not ashamed now of the fact that I have 
changed my convictions on a lot of things and my outlook on life, my 
philosophy on a lot of things, things that are right under a person's 
nose that he accepts without thinking about them. And when you 
start contrasting it with the way those people in the Philippines and 
Japan live, the poverty they have, well, it begins to make you wonder 
how foolish a person can actually be. 

I mean, it is awfully easy for Americans to accept the precedent of 
their living standards because they have never known anything else. 
There have been tough times; I know in my family there have been 
times when food was scarce. But I never starved. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you any suggestion as to the function of this 
House Un-American Activities Committee, any suggestion as to how 
we might be more helpful or useful in our official capacity ? Do you 
feel we are doing a job that is necessary to be done? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Doyle. Why is it so necessary ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Well, I think that for one thing, for the sake of a lot 
of these people that just got into the habit of being Communists. There 
are a lot of them. I mean, they haven't really followed through. With 
a little heat, for their own salvation, actually, I would make those 
people start thinking twice and reevaluating their position, what they 
have got to lose. And they do. I know that personally right now I 
think of what I could lose. I have a good job. I enjoy it immensely. I 
have a wife and two little girls. Well, the thought of any harm coming 
to them or anything like that, why — well, I don't thinlv that — at least 
a lot of these people — there are some of these dedicated hard cores that 
will never change, but I think that a lot of these so-called rank and file 
members, if they were given an opportunity to review their position 
and what they have got to lose and what they actually have, that, well — 
I'd just parallel this with the Don Quixotes, chasing windmills, and I 
don't know whether most of those people have stopped to think what 
they have to lose. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, then, you feel the committee is doing a valuable 
and necessary function ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I do. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you have anything further, Mr. Wheeler? 
Mr. Wheeler. I have one question. When did you enter the United 
States Army ? 
Mr. WiLDMAN. I entered it, I think, it was January 8, 1945. 
Mr. Wheeler. And when were you discharged ? 



6036 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. WiLDMAN. I went on terminal leave the first part of October, 
and I don't know how much terminal leave — it was in November that 
my discharge was final. 

Mr.WnEEusR. 1946? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. 1946. 

Mr. Wheeler. Honorable discharge ? 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Let me thank you on behalf of the committee, Mr. 
Wildman, for your cooperation. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Any time that I can cooperate further — there are a 
lot of things that I am hazy on. And you know, looking back and 
thinking about these things, you know, the Communists are taught not 
to remember, not to pry their nose into affairs that are not any of their 
business. It is true. And there is a lot of these names and people and 
events that took place, well, if I would see the names I could tell you. 
There were a lot of these people that were in and I think they have 
made a definite departure, and there are a lot of them that just went 
under cover. Of course, it is hard to tell. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much for your help. And good luck to 
you. 

Mr. WiLDMAN. Thank you. 

(Whereupon the executive session was adjourned, subject to the 
call of the Chair.) 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NORTHWEST AKEA— Part 1 



WEDNESDAY, JUNE 2, 1954 

United States House op Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

ON Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. C. 

executive session ^ 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to call, at 10:30 a. m., in room 225, Old House Office 
Building, the Honorable Kit Clardy (acting chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Kit Clardy (acting 
chairman) and Gordon H. Scherer. 

Staff members present: Robert L. Kunzig, counsel; Thomas W. 
Beale, Sr., chief clerk; Courtney E. Owens, acting chief investigator; 
Raphael I. Nixon, director of research; Earl Fuoss, investigator; 
and Dolores Anderson, reporter. 

Mr. Clardy. Let the record show that the Honorable Harold H. 
Velde, chairman of the House Committee on Un-American Activities, 
has appointed a subcommittee for the purposes of this hearing, con- 
sisting of the Honorable Francis E. Walter, Hon. Gordon H. Scherer, 
and myself, Kit Clardy, as acting chairman. 

Let the record also show that two members, the Honorable Gordon 
H. Scherer and Kit Clardy, acting chairman, are present at this hear- 
ing. 

Will the witness stand and be sworn, please? 

In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee, 
do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Moore. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Boudin. My name is Leonard Boudin, of 25 Broad Street, 
New York 5. 

Mr. Clardy. I believe you have appeared before this committee 
before now, so you are familiar with our rules of procedure, I am sure. 

Mr. Boudin. I recognize the chairman to be Representative Clardy. 
Could I have the name of the other gentleman, please? 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Boudin. Thank you. I am somewhat familiar with them, yes. 
It is some time since I appeared before the committee, however. 

Mr. Kunzig. This is a subcommittee of three members here this 
morning, of which two, a quorum, are present with Mr. Clardy as 
chairman. 

' Released by the committee. 

6037 



6038 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. BouDiN. Yes. I see Mr. Clardy and Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Clardy. You may proceed, Mr. Counsel, if you are ready. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your full name, please? 

TESTIMONY OF STANLEY WILLIAMS MOORE, ACCOMPANIED 
BY HIS COUNSEL, LEONARD BOUDIN 

Mr. Moore. Stanley Williams Moore. 

Mr. KuNziG. And your present address is? 

Mr. Moore. 41 Bethune Street, New York 14. 

I would like to ask, as a favor, a statement as to the subject being 
investigated by this committee. 

Mr. Clardy. The general subject is the power to investigate, 
being duly conferred on us by the statutes of the Congress of the 
United States. 

Would you proceed, Mr. Counsel 

Mr. Moore. I would like a general statement as to the subject 
being investigated here this morning. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). To state the general purpose of the 
hearing, although that isn't required. 

Mr. KuNziG. The committee has stated, in its rules of procedure 
adopted July 15, 1953, that 

The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, is 
authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, character, 
and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, (2) the 
diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propaganda 
that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks the 
principle of the form of government as guaranteed bv our Constitution, and 
(3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any necessary 
remedial legislation. 

It is in this field of subversive and un-American activities that you 
have been called before this committee today in order to question 
you regarding what knowledge you may have on certain specific items 
in this field. 

Mr. MooRE. May I request a statement of the specific subjects 
upon which you are questioning me today? 

Mr. Clardy. That is as specific as the committee can be. We will 
ask you in considerable detail this morning as to your knowledge of 
this subject. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mr. Moore, will you give a brief resume of your 
educational background? I believe you were born in Oakland on 
July 24, 1914; is that correct? 

Mr. Moore. It is. 

Mr. KuNziG. Go ahead, please. 

Mr. Moore. I was educated in the lower public schools and high 
school in California, then went to the University of California, where 
I took my A. B. degree in 1935. I then spent a year at Harvard 
University in graduate school, from 1935 to 1936. Then I returned 
to the University of California, where I spent 4 more years — graduate 
work — taking my Ph. D. degree, in the summer of 1940, or it may be 
that the Ph. D. degree is 1941. 

Mr. Clardy. Wliere was the university located? 

Mr. Moore. At Berkeley. Excuse me. 

Mr. Clardy. I wanted to be sure. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6039 

Mr. Moore. In those days there were the 2, the U. C. L. A. and 
the University of CaUfornia. My Ph. D. degree was taken in 1940. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you give the committee, if you would please, 
your emplojmfient background. A r6sum4 of your employment. 

Mr. Moore. During the years I spent at the University of Cali- 
fornia — at least three of them — I was employed by them as teaching 
assistant in philosophy. After receiving my Ph. D. I was employed 
as an instructor and tutor in philosophv, at Harvard University. 

Mr. KuNziG. Was that from 1940 to 1942? 

Mr. Moore. From 1940 to 1942 ; yes. That would be academic years, 
incidentally, and they start in the summer. You have probably had 
experience with that. 

In the summer of 1942 I went to the United States Air Force for 
the Army and spent the next 4 years there. Would you Uke details 
OD that? 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes, we w^ould. 

Mr. KuNziG. Go ahead, please. 

Mr. Moore. I entered as an enlisted man in June of 1942, and 
after basic training, attended a school for Link trainers — Link trainer 
operators. I then taught in a school for Link trainer operators for a 
few months and went to Officer's Candidate School at Miami Beach, 
Fla. Then w^ent to Harvard Business School at Cambridge. I 
graduated from Officer's Candidate School, and taught there for a 
while, specializing in statistical controls. After a few months service 
in the Officer's Candidate School I went overseas to the United 
Kingdom, where I served in the 8th Air Force Headquarters. 

Mr. Clardy. Meaning England, when you say United Kingdom? 

Mr. Moore. That is what they called it. 

Mr. Clardy. I know they did, but w^e midwesterners like to be a 
little more specific, and we call it England. 

Mr. Moore. That is right. I spent the next 3 years _in Europe, 
serving mainly in the Sth Air Force Headquarters, which became 
known later on as the Sth Strategic Air Force of Europe. I left the 
Army with the rank of major in the middle of 1946. 

My next employment was as a part-time lecturer in philosophy at 
the University of California, in Berkeley, and this was in the latter 
part of 1946. 

My next employment was at Reed College, in Portland, Oreg., 
and lasted from 1948 — the academic year, which commenced in the 
summer of 1948 — until the spring of 1953. 

Mr. Clardy. WUl you spell the name of this college? 

Mr. Moore. R-e-e-d College. 

Mr. Clardy. Reed, yes. I didn't quite catch the name or I 
wouldn't have asked you to spell it. 

Mr. Moore. I am sorry. I am now on leave of absence from Reed 
College. 

Mr. KuNziG. What sort of leave of absence is that? 

Mr. Moore. It means I am on leave and am to go back there, but 
I am not being paid a salary at the present time. Wliether I go back 
there depends on my wishes at the time, rather than the fact of their 
calling me back. 

Mr. KuNziG. May I ask what your present employment is then? 

Mr. Moore. I am taking a year off to do research in writing. 

Mr. Clardy. A sort of sabbatical leave? 



6040 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACEFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Moore. Excuse me, sir. A sabbatical leave involves pay and 
my leave of absence is not with pay. 

Mr. Clardy. I understand. You didn't catch the two words 
''sort of." 

Mr. KuNziG. So you are on leave for a year, writing and so forth, 
but without pay. 

Mr. Moore. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. In what field? 

Mr. Moore. Philosophy. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you go back to Reed College after your leave of 
absence, if you desire to? 

Mr. Moore. According to the present situation, the option is mine. 
I am not under contract now, but I have, for what it is worth these 
days, "tenure," which means the obligation is on the part of the college 
to employ me. The burden of proof, in other words, is on their side, 
not mine. 

Mr. Clardy. You are sort of in the position of a Government 
employee who resigns, and who has civil service status and can go back 
if he desires to do so. 

Mr. Moore. I am not familiar with the Government or civil service 
regulations. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Moore, did you ever know a Charles David 
Blodgett? 

Mr. Moore. Could you spell the name, sir? 

Mr. KtJNziG. Yes, B-1-o-d-g-e-t-t. 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question upon two grounds. 
First, I feel it invades my right to freedom of speech and association 
under the first amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. I want to interrupt you at that point to tell you that 
this committee has taken the position that the first amendment is 
not recognized by it as a solid ground for refusal to answer. 

Mr. Moore. I have not finished my answer, but if I might inter- 
ject parenthetically — my lawyer has confirmed to me that the question 
of the first amendment is now under consideration by the Supreme 
Court. In case they do decide in favor of using the first amendment, 
I would like to have it in there. 

Mr. KuNziG. You are correct. The Emspak case now being heard 
before the Supreme Court involves the use of the first amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. While we do not agree with its usage, you can do so 
if you wish, I just wanted to let you know the feeling of the com- 
mittee. 

Mr. Moore. Secondly, that under the fifth amendment I cannot 
be compelled to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. Clardy. In a criminal proceeding, if you want to quote it 
accurately. 

Mr. KuNziG. You are raising the first and the fifth amendments 
then, as your refusal to answer? 

Mr. Moore. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Very weU. You have the right to do so even though 
we do not think you have the legal right. Proceed. 

Mr. KuNziG. Charles D. Blodgett, Mr. Chairman, has testified in 
executive session before this committee in March of 1954 that he 
knew you back in California, and 

Mr. Clardy. You don't mean me, you mean the witness. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6041 

Mr. KuNZiG. Of coTirse, pardon me. 
. I should say that he knew the witness, Mr. Moore, in CaUfomia. 
He also testified that he, Mr. Blodgett, was a member of the Com- 
munist Party and was employed as a staff writer of the Daily People's 
World in the Oakland, Calif., office. He went on to say, * 'In my capacity 
as an employee of the Daily People's World, I was required to attend 
meetings of the Political Affairs Committee of the Communist Party 
of Alameda County, as an observer. These meetings were closed 
Communist Party meetings. 

He said, and testified under oath, Mr. Moore, that you attended 
some of those meetings with respect to the years of 1946 and 1947. 

Did you ever attend any meetings of the political affairs committee 
of the Communist Party in Alameda County? 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question for the reasons 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. It will be sufficient to say "on the grounds previously 
advanced" and we will understand that you are referring to the 
specific grounds under the Constitution which you have mentioned, 
the first and fifth amendments, even though we do not agree with you. 

Mr. KuNziG. Then the witness, Mr. Blodgett, further testified that 
he recalled specifically meeting you, Mr. Moore, and a conversation 
took place in the Alameda County CIO Building on Grand, G-r-a-n-d, 
Avenue, Oakland. Calif., just prior to a meeting of the Political 
Affairs Committee of the Communist Party which was being held at 
that building, and he said you complimented him on a story which 
he had written, appearing in the Daily People's World relating to the 
ownership and control of the Oakland Tribune by Mr. Joseph R. 
Knowland, father of United States Senator William F. Knowland, 
of California. You suggested that you could provide Mr. Blodgett 
with some additional information about Mr. Knowland that you 
thought should well be included in the feature story which appeared in 
the Daily People's World regarding Mr. Knowland's connections ^n 
Spain. 

Did you ever have such a conversation with Mr. Blodgett? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr, Clardy. Are you familiar with, or do you know the location 
of the building described in the preceding question? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. The Chair directs that you answer the question. 
I don't regard the invocation of the first or fifth amendment as being 
applicable to that kind of question. The question has to do only 
with whether or not you know the location and are familiar with the 
building that has been described in the question asked by Mr. Kunzig. 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Moore. I wonder if I could have read to me from the record 
the question of Mr. Kunzig before the question of the chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. My question had to do, Witness, only with whether 
you are familiar with the location of the building, or whether you 
know the location of the building. There was nothing at all in my 
question dealing with this meeting, the meeting with Mr. Blodgett. 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 



6042 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. ScHERER. May I suggest that we ask him a question in this 
way? By merely stating — "Do you know this particular address?" 

Mr. Clardy, I am rephrasing my question so there will be no 
question in your mind. Witness, do you know, in Oakland, Calif., a 
building known as the Alameda County CIO Building, located on 
Grand Avenue? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Now I direct that you answer that question because 
I do not think the invocation of the two amendments is at all proper. 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Clardy. You can answer the question I have submitted to 
you, sir, or decline, as you wish. My question has nothing to do now 
with anything that has been asked by Mr. Kunzig. I am asking 
about the building. 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Moore, I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you acquainted with the fact that there is a street 
in Oakland by the name of Grand? 

Mr. Moore, Yes. The name of it is Grand Avenue, not Grand 
Street. 

Mr, Clardy, Are you familiar with the fact that the CIO owns 
the building located on that street or avenue? 

(At this point Mr, Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Moore. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. You are directed to answer. 

Mr, Moore, Must I answer again? I decline to answer the ques- 
tion upon the grounds previously stated, 

Mr. Clardy. Did you ever attend a meeting of any kind at the 
CIO Building located on Grand Avenue in Oakland, Calif.? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy, Proceed, Mr, Kunzig, 

Mr, Kunzig, When was it you left the bay area and went to Reed 
College? 

Mr, Moore. It was in the autumn or late summer of 1948, 

Mr, Kunzig. I want the record to show that the testimony shows 
that Mr, Moore had left the bay area at that time and he had taken 
up the position as teacher at Reed College, That was the testimony 
of Mr, Blodgett. 

Now let me ask you this specific question, Mr, Moore. Have you 
ever been a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Moore. I dechne to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever been a member of any organization 
known as a Communist front? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy, As a teacher of philosophy, are you familiar with the 
general public interpretation of the phrase I used "Communist front?" 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6043 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Moore. Uh — I don't know of one particular general interpre- 
tation of this phrase. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any understanding at all of what the 
term generally is intended to mean? 

Mr. Moore. I have heard of organizations called Communist-front 
organizations. 

Mr. Clardy. By that you mean, as I do, organizations that are 
furthering the positions or intentions of the Communist Party, 
whether actually being a part of the Communist Party itself? 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. MooRE. Sir, my answer was, "I had heard of organizations 
called that." My inference is that the people who called them that 
understood the term in the sense you gave. 

Mr. Clardy. Thank you. Now, have you ever attended any 
meetings of any Communist-front organizations anywhere or at any 
time? 

Mr. MooRE. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever solicited members in a Commimist- 
front organization, or in the Communist Party itself? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I have in my hands a copy of the 
Daily People's World, dated Friday, August 29, 1947. On page 4 
thereof there appears — and I assume it is an advertisement — under 
the heading "Philosophy Psychology, a day-long seminar this Sunday, 
August 31, on the foundations of philosophy," and so forth and so on. 
It lists Stanley Moore as instructor, along with several others. This 
is an ad for the California Labor School, 240 Golden Gate, San 
Francisco — a group that has been cited by the United States Attorney 
General. 

Did you act as an instructor for this school? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever had any knowledge about the existence 
of such a school? 

Mr. MooRE. I decline to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you ever present yourself at any time at the 
address given in this ad, that is, 240 Golden Gate, San Francisco? 

Mr. MooRE. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. KuN?iG. I think the record should also show, Mr. Chairman, 
that the Daily People's World has been cited as "The official organ of 
the Communist Party on the west coast," by the "Special Committee 
on Un-American Activities, Report of March 29, 1944, p. 95." It is 
also cited in the "Report, Jan. 3, 1941, p. 10." 

The Daily People's World of Friday, February 6, 1948, page 5 
thereof, in a story about 

George Hitchcock, of the California Labor School staff, and Stanley Moore, 
former instructor at Harvard will lead the discussion on Marxism and Philosophy 
in the second of six forum sessions commemorating 100 years of scientific socialism, 
Friday, at 8:30 p. m., at the California Labor School, 240 Golden Gate Ave. 

48069 — 54— pt. 1 7 



6044 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THJE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Clardy. May I iDterrupt you, Counsel? Is a George Hitch- 
cock mentioned in this article and also in the ad in the 1947 paper? 
Is that correct? 

Mr. KuNziG. That is correct. 
Did you teach or give this course at the second of these six 
forum sessions, as described in the Daily People's World of Friday, 
February 6, 1948? 

Mr, Moore. I decline to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Was this report an incorrect report? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Were you familiar with the fact that there was such 
a forum, or speaking series of lectures at the address given? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously given. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, to move ahead a little — the Tuesday, August 
9, 1949, edition of the Daily People's World — during the time, Mr. 
Moore, you were at Reed College — has an article on page 5 which was 
presented by the California Labor School of 240 Golden Gate Avenue, 
and which reads in the first paragraph: 

San Francisco. — A week of special events in the fields of philosophy and 
psychology will be presented by the California Labor School, 240 Golden Gate 
Avenue, in its third annual philosophy conference commencing Friday evening, 
August 12. 

It lists, printed in the third paragraph — 

Dr. Stanley Moore, philosophy department, Reed College, will speak on Two 
Concepts of PoHtical Freedom in Modern Philosophy. 

Mr. Clardy. And the chairman of the evening was George Hitch- 
cock, mentioned in the prior articles? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, sir. George Hitchcock. 
Did you speak at this Friday evening meeting, as listed in the Daily 
People's World, of Tuesday, August 9, 1949, on page 5? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Were you acquainted with George Hitchcock who 
was mentioned in these articles? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you know where George Hitchcock is at present? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. KuNZiG. In that article there was also listed a Charles R. 
Garry, attorney, Angela Ward, and Philip Carter. 

Did you know Charles R. Garry? 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Clardy. Now will you answer the question? 

Mr. KuNZiG. Did you know Charles R. Garry? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Angela Ward? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Philip Carter? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6045 

Mr, Clardy. Do you know whether any of those three persons were 
members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Moore. I dechne to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, while you were teaching at Reed College, how 
many times did you go down to teach at the California Labor School? 
Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr, KuNziG. While you were at Reed College, and teaching there, 
did you meet with any Communist-front organization, such as the 
one already mentioned? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever attend any Communist Party meeting 
in Portland, Oreg.? 

Mr. MooRE. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, let us see: You have been away from Reed 
College during the present academic year, is that right? 
Mr. MooRE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Up imtil the beginning of this academic year you 
were teaching there? 

Mr. MooRE. For 5 years. 

Mr. Clardy. During any of the time since 1949 and up until the 
beginning of the present academic year, did you take part in any 
forum discussions or schools of the kind described in the articles that 
have been read to you? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Clardy, Since the beginning of this academic year, have you 
taken part in any such schools, forums, or discussions anywhere? 

Mr, Moore, I decline to answer the question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you attended any Communist Party meetings 
in the city where you now reside? 

Mr. MooRE. I decline to answer the question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you attended any meeting of any Communist- 
front organization, either the one that was described in the articles, or 
of any other description? 

Mr. MooRE. I decline to answer the question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. KuNZTG. Have you ever been questioned by Reed College 
authorities along the lines you have been questioned this mornmg? 
(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 
Mr. MooRE. No, 

Mr, Clardy, Have you ever informed the authorities at Reed 
College of the fact that you did lecture or address these forums that 
have been discussed in the previous questions? 

Mr. MooRE. I decline to answer the question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated, 

Mr, KuNziG. Have you ever been questioned by any college group 
or government group along the lines you have been questioned this 
morning? 

(At this point Mr, Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 



6046 COMMUNIST ACTiyrriES in the pacific northwest area 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, at any time subsequent to June 1, 1948, have 
you attended any meetings of any kind at 216 Market Street in San 
Francisco, Calif.? 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. MooRE. I decline to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. At any time since June 1, 1948, have you attended 
any meetings of any kind at 240 Golden Gate Avenue? 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Clardy. I believe that is an Oakland address, is it not? 

Mr. Moore. If my memory serves me, in Mr. Kunzig's questioning 
this address appeared, but I am not sure. 

Mr. Clardy. I am asking you if you know whether 240 Golden 
Gate Avenue is in San Francisco or in Oakland? 

Mr. Moore. It seems to me it is a San Francisco address. 

Mr. Clardy. It has a dateline of San Francisco. At any rate, in 
either of the towns have you ever attended a meeting at the address 
given, since June 1, 1948? 

Mr. MooRE. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Were you ever made aware of the fact that the 
Attorney General of the United States had cited an organization known 
as the California Labor School as a subversive group? 

Mr. MooRE. I refuse to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. I direct you to answer that question. It merely 
asks you to answer something that is public or common knowledge, 
and I do not regard the use of the first and fifth amendment as appli- 
cable in this particular instance. 

Mr. MooRE. I refuse to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Were you ever made aware of the fact that the 
Daily People's World has been cited also? 

Mr. MooRE. I refuse to answer the question upon the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you ever make any investigation to discover if 
either the Daily People's World or the California Labor School were 
subversive organizations? 

Mr. MooRE. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. If you should discover for the first time, in the 
progress of this hearing, that the California Labor School was and is 
a Communist-front organization, and has been so cited, would you 
in the future attend or give lectures such as have been described in 
the articles we have read to you? 

Mr. MooRE. I decline to answer the questions on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should show that 
of the three newspaper items we discussed previously, the one dated 
Tuesday, August 9, 1949, which describes Mr. Stanley Moore as 
teaching in the California Labor School was a date which is later 
than the citation of the California Labor School. 



COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6047 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, I had that in mind during my questioning. 

Mr. KuNziG. I know you did, sir. 

Mr, KuNziG. Did you ever work in any way in defense work while 
you were a teacher? 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. Moore. No. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Have you ever done any confidential work or secret 
work of any kind? 

Mr, Moore. Excuse me. If I might amend that answer — it is 
trivial but while I was at Harvard I was a part of the block system of 
airraid defense. 

Mr. Clardy. We are speaking about engaging in secret work for 
the Government or defense. 

Mr. MooRE. I knew you were but I wanted to make my answer 
clear upon a technical point. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you in any way since the war do any sort of con- 
fidential work for the Government? 

Mr. MooRE. No. 

Mr. Clardy. Since vou are now on leave, when and if vou seek to 
return to the position you held in the past at Reed College, is it your 
intention to inform them of the facts that have been developed in this 
proceeding, concerning your lectures in the [California] Labor School 
and such things as we have discussed? 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr. MooRE. Mr. Chairman, I cannot answer that question in the 
affirmative because I do not feel that facts have been developed but 
one of the reasons I asked for a transcript of this proceeding is that I 
might be able to give it to the people at Reed College. 

Mr. Clardy. That will be printed in due course if the committee 
authorizes it to be done. I take it, then you will inform the college of 
the facts given in the copy of the printed release, when and if it is 
released? 

Mr. MooRE. Sir, I would like to phrase that differently. 

Mr. Clardy. I will phrase the question. You phrase the answer. 

Mr. MooRE. Since it contains the phrase "inform them of the facts 
that have been developed" — for the reasons given before I do intend 
to give them a copy of the transcript. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you advise them that you have been at some 
time or other a member of the Communist Party? 
I Mr. MooRE. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you advise them that you have lectured before a 
group found by the Attorney General to be subversive? 

Mr. MooRE. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you intend to represent to them that you are not 
now and never have been at any time a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. MooRE. I decline to answer the question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever engaged in any activities that could 
possibly incriminate you in any way? 

(At this point Mr. Moore conferred with Mr. Boudin.) 

Mr, MooRE. I will have to ask for a clarification of that question. 



6048 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Clardy. I do not think it needs it. A man knows whether 
he has been engaged in any activities of an incriminating nature. 
I am endeavoring to discover whether you have invoked the fifth 
amendment in good faith. If you have not engaged in such 

actions 

Mr. Moore. That is precisely the point, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. My question is a very simple one and I will restate it. 
Have you ever engaged in any criminal activities in any way what- 
soever? 

Mr. Moore. If I may clarify my answer 

Mr. Clardy, You may if you wish. 

Mr. Moore. The taking of the fifth amendment, which as I under- 
stand it is the privilege not to be compelled to be a witness against 
one's self in a criminal proceeding. To take the fifth amendment is 
not an admission that if the question were answered truthfully one 
would be admitting guilt of a crime — only an admission that to 
answer the question might be used in a criminal investigation against 
one. 

^Mr. Clardy. Your interpretation is entirely unfounded but you 
have the privilege of giving it. My question is very clear. 

Have you ever engaged in any activity of a criminal nature, whether 
it be subversive or what have you? I understand your philosophical 
position. Just answer the question, sir. 

Mr. Moore. Thank you, sir. I will decline to answer that question 
on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever engaged in any activity that could by 
any stretch of imagination be called subversive by nature? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated. 

Mr. KuNziG. If it lies within your knowledge, do you know whether 
Reed College knows at the present time the items discussed here this 
morning — prior to this — whether it may be raised in the futm-e? 

Mr. Moore. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously given. 

Mr. Clardy. Hold it just a minute. I have my office on the phone. 

(At this point Mr. Clardy left the hearing room.) 

(Mr. Clardy returned to hearing room within a few minutes and 
the hearing was resumed.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I have nothing in particular to further 
question the witness about. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Scherer, do you have any further questions? 

Mr. ScHERER. Just one question, yes. 

Your previous question with reference to appearing before any 
other congressional committee wasn't clear. Let me ask you this: 
Have you ever testified before any other congressional committee? 

Mr. Moore. No. 

Mr, Chairman. Is that all you have, Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. Those are all the questions I have. 

Mr, Clardy, Nothing further? 

Mr, Scherer. No. 

Mr, Clardy, Very well. The witness is excused and the hearing 
adjourned. 

(Whereupon, at 11:30 a. m., Wednesday, June 2, 1954, the executive 
session adjom-ned.) 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA— Part 1 



WEDNESDAY, JUNE 9, 1954 

United States House of Representatia^es, 

subcommiitee of the committee 

ON Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D. C. 

executive session ^ 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to call, at 5 :55 p. m., in room 225 of the Old House Office 
Building, the Honorable Gordon H. Scherer (acting chairman) pre- 
siding. 

Committee members present: Representative Gordon H. Scherer, 
acting Chairman. 

Staff members present : Mr. Courtney E. Owens, acting chief inves- 
tigator; Mr. James Andrews, committee investigator; Mrs. Dolores 
Anderson, reporter. 

Mr. Scherer. Let the record show that the Honorable Harold H. 
Velde, chairman of the House Committee on Un-American Activities, 
has appointed a subcommittee for the purpose of this hearing, consist- 
ing of myself, Gordon Scherer, as chairman. 

Will the witness raise her right hand, please? 

In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee, do 
you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Owen. I do. 

Mr. Scherer. I understand that in the absence of our counsel, Mr. 
Kunzig and Mr. Tavenner, the interrogation will be conducted by 
both Mr. Owens and Mr. Andrews. 

Will you proceed, please ? 

Mr. Owens. During the time you were a member of the Communist 
Party in Portland, did you come by knowledge that there existed in 
Portland a professional branch of the Communist Party? 

TESTIMONY OF MARJORIE JEAN OWEN 

Mrs. Owen. Yes. 

Mr. Owens. Did you ever have occasion to meet with this group ? 

Mrs. Owen. Yes. 

Mr. Owens. Will you explain the circumstances under which you 
met with this professional branch of the Communist Party in Port- 
land? 



* Portion of this session released by the committee. 

6049 



6050 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. O^VEN. I was a member of the financial commission and it was 
my duty to collect dues or money from the professional group. I 
didn't collect from each individual, but from the secretaries. 

Mr. Owens. Can you fix an approximate date at the time you be- 
came a member of the financial commission of the Conamunist Party in 
Portland ? 

Mrs. Oaven". Somewhere in 1949 or 1950. 

Mr. Owens. Can you recall the names of any individuals who were 
members of the professional group in Portland? 

Mrs. Owen. Bob Cannon, or Canon. I believe he is at Reed Col- 
lege, but of course I am not sure. He was when I left. Also his wife, 
B. J. Cannon. That was what she was called, B. J. And Virginia 
Reynolds. 

Mr. Owens. Is Virginia Reynolds the wife of a Professor at Reed 
College? 

Mrs. Owen. Yes. And Stanlej^ Moore. He was a professor at 
Reed College. No ; I don't know if he was a professor at that time, 
but he was an instructor at Reed. 

Mr. Owens. What subject did he teach ? 

Mrs. Owen. Philosophy. 

Mr. 0"\VENS. Do you know that he taught philosophy ? 

Mrs. Owen. I knew then. My recollection is that he taught philos- 
ophy. 

Mr. Owens. Mrs. Owen, will you explain the circumstances under 
which you met Stanley Moore and these other individuals as Com- 
munist Party members ? "* 

Mrs. Owen. The financial commission assessed and assigned a cer- 
tain amount of money to be raised by each club and the members of 
the financial commission divided the clubs up, and I had the profes- 
sional club assigned to me as one of them, the club in which these 
people were members. 

(Whereupon the session was continued on other matters of interest 
to the committee.) 



INDEX TO PART 1 



Individuals 

Page 

Abowitz, Murray 6008 

Adams, Raymond 5968 

Allen, Raymond 5969 

Armstrong, H. C 6004 

Atkinson, N. P 6004 

Atkinson, Roy 5969 

Baxter, Marg 6027, 6028 

Baxter, Reba (Mrs. Whitey Baxter) 6001 

Baxter, Whitey 6001-6003 

Beck, Dave 6018 

Bell, Kate (see also Telford, Kate) 6003 

Bigelman, Leo 6008 

Bimba, Anthony 5967, 5969 

Bittelman, Alexander 6024 

Blodg^tt, Charles David 5973-5974 (testimony), 6040, 6041 

Borowski, Irene 5983, 6004 

Boudin, Leonard 6037, 6038 

Breman, Lawrence 6019 

Brewer, Roy . 5977 

Bridges, Harry 5986, 5988-5992, 6029, 6030 

Bristol, Al 6000, 6002, 6003 

Brockway, Harold 6004 

Brockway, John 6004 

Brooks, Carl 6004 

Brooks, Celeste 6004 

Browda, Morris 6009 

Browder, Earl 5979, 5980, 5984, 6004, 6010, 6024 

Burner, George 6020 

Burner, Joe 6020 

Cain, Harry 5976 

Cannelonga, Blacky 6002 

Cannon, B. J. (Mrs. Robert Cannon) 6050 

Cannon, Robert 6050 

Canwell 5976, 5984 

Carpenter, Earl 6019 

Carpenter, Emma (Mrs. Earl Carpenter) 6019 

Carter, Philip 6044 

Caughlan, John 5992, 6004, 6005 

Clark, John 6018, 6019 

Cohen, Elizabeth Boggs 5999-6011 (testimony) 

Cole, Merwin 6004 

Collins, John 6023 

Commons, John R : 5968, 5969 

Conrad, Mabel 6006 

Cook, Bud 6017, 6018 

Correll, Alice (Mrs. Dick Correll) 6004 

Correll, Dick 6004, 6005 

Costigan, Howard — 5975-5997 (testimony), 6004 

Coughlin, Paul 5980 

Cour, James (Jim) 5982,6004 

Crumbaker, Harry 6020 

Dahlke, Grace 6019 

Daishbach, John 6005, 6030 

Decker, Robert 6023 

1 



ii INDEX 

Page 

DeLacy, Hugh 5976, 5987-5990, 5992, 6004 

Dennett, Eugene 6004, 6030 

Dennett, Harriett (Mrs. Eugene Dennett) 6004, 6030 

Devin, Mayor 5976 

Dimitrov, Georgi 5979, 5980 

Dobbins, Bill 5992, 6004 

Druckman, Jacob 6008 

Druckman, Sidney 6008 

Duclos, Jacques 6010 

Eby, Harold G 5986, 5987, 5992, 6001, 6004 

Eby, Lenna (Mrs. Harold Eby) 6001 

Eddings, Harold 6019 

Eddings, Ralph 6019, 6022 

Ellison, James 6005 

Ellison, Naomi (Mrs. Victor Ellison) 6002, 6023 

Ellison, Victor 6021, 6022, 6030 

Emspak 6040 

Engelberg, Hy 6008 

Farley, Jim 5979 

Farmer, James 5967, 5968 

Fletcher, Jess 5987-5990, 6004 

Flynn, Elizabeth Gurley 6004 

Fogg, Kathryn 5991, 5992 

Forschmiedt, Rachmiel 6005 

Forschmiedt, Mrs. Rachmiel 6005 

Foster, William Z 6004, 6025 

Fox, Elsie (Mrs. Ernie Fox) 6004 

Fox, Ernie 6002, 6004 

Frankfeld, Phil 6005 

Furnish, Art 6019 

Garry, Charles R 6044 

Gillette, Phyl 6003 

Glenn, Elizabeth 6008 

Golden, Ben 6004 

Goodlaw, Bea 6008 

Goodlaw, Edward 6008 

Green, Gil 6025 

Greenman, John 6022 

Guilmet, Mary 6027, 6028 

Gundlach, Alice 6000 

Gundlach, Ralph 5971, 5972 

Haggin 6021 

Haggin, Carolyn 6019 

Haggin, Douglas 6016 

Haggin, James 6018 

Haglund, Margaret 6004 

Hall, Elsie (Mrs. John Hall) „ 6030 

Hall, John 6030 

Hall, Ralph 6030 

Hammer, Al 6009 

Hammer, Bea 6009 

Hanson, Charlie 6003 

Harris, Jessie 6004 

Harrison, Joseph 5971 

Hartle, Barbara 6003, 0004, 6018, 6030, 6032 

Hartle, John 6018 

Hathaway, Clarence 6004 

Hersh, David 6000 

Hester, Al 6006 

Hester, Mrs. Al 6006 

Hicks, Victor 6005 

Hill, Glennette 6000 

Hill, Gretchen 6003 

Hill, Helen 6001 

Hitchcock, George 6043, 6044 

Honig, Nat 6004 



INDEX iii 

" Page 

HviSson, Roy 6004 

Huff, Henry 5988, 6003, 6004, 6030 

Huson, Homer 5984 

Ivers, Stan 6018 

Jackins, Harvey 6004, 6027, 6028 

Jackson, Harry 5980-5988, 5990, 6002, 6003 

Jacobs, Mel 5986, 5987 

James, Florence Bean 5971 

Jay, Cecil 6005 

Jenson, Mabel 6006 

Johnson, C. P 6020 

Jones, Al 6020 

Keen, Sylvia 5983 

Kelso, Byrd 6004 

Kinney, Glen 6004 

Knowland, Joseph R 5974, 6041 

Knowland, William F 5974, 6041 

LaGuardia 5992, 5993 

La Follette 5992 

Lambert, Rudy 5990 

Lampitt, Roy 6018 

Larsen, Karley 5986, 5987 

Laurie, John , 6005 

Leavitt, Ed 6017 

Leffg, Charlie 6002 

Lehman, Ed 6021 

Lisht, Louise 6008 

Linderman, Paul 6000 

Lucky, George 5977 

Magnuson, Warren G 5980 

Mander, Linden 5968 

Mansfield, Jack 6022, 6023 

Marcantonio, Vito 5979 

Marcus, Simson 6008 

Marshall, General 5976 

McClaskey, Eugene Kenneth 5965-5972 (testimony) 

McClaskey, Mrs. Eugene Kenneth 5968 

McGrath, Ellen 5982, 6004 

Meyer, Jan 6019 

Minor, Robert 6025 

Mitchell, Hugh 5976 

Molthan, James 5991 

Moore, Stanley 5973,5974,6037-6048 (testimony), 6050 

Murphy, James 6003, 6004, 6030 

Nedelman, Jack 6008 

Nelson, Burt 6004, 6029, 6030, 6032 

Neubergei", Dick 5991 

Norris 5992, 5993 

Nostrand, Dr 5968 

Offner. Herbert 6009 

Olson, Max 6005, 6016 

Orton, Mickey 5988, 5990, 6003, 6004 

Ottenheimer, Albert 5972 

Owen, Marjorie Jean 6049-6050 (testimony) 

Pahkala, Otto 6005 

Pennock, William 5970, 5971, 5982-5985, 5988, 6004 

Perry, Red 6020 

Pettus, Gladys 6001, 6003, 6004 

Pettus, Terry 5982, 6004 

Phillips, Helga 6001 

Pritchett, Harold 5990, 6002, 6003 

Rappaport, Morris (see also Rapport, Morris) 5978, 5987, 5988, 6003 

Rapport, Morris (see also Rappaport, Morris) 5978, 

5980, 5981, 5983, 5986, 5987, 5990, 5992, 5996, 6002, 6003, 6005, 6006. 

Remes, Andy 5988, 6003, 6005, 6030 

Reynolds, Virginia 6050 



Iv INDEX 

Page 

Richardson, Tom 6029 

Riley, Mayor 5976 

Riley, Vernon (Todd) 6019 

Roark, Bill 6005 

Roark, Ruth 6005 

Roberts, Bob 6003 

Robinson, Jack (Communist Party name for Howard Costigan) 5977 

Roosevelt, Franklin 5976, 5978, 5979, 5992, 5993, 6007 

Roosevelt, James 5971 

Rosenblum, Gordon 6008 

Rosenblum, Mrs 6008 

Rosser, Lou 6025 

Saari, Clara 6023 

Sass, Lou 5988, 6003 

Sass, Mary 6003 

Schneider, Elizabeth 6020 

Schneiderman, Bill 5990, 5996 

Schultz. Herman 6018 

Sears, Baba Jeanne 6004 

Sedgelock 6016 

Sedlock 6016 

Siegel, Sam 6009 

Silver, Max 6008 

Simmons, Joe 6020 

Smith, Betty (Mrs. Claude Smith) 6030 

Smith, Charlie 5989 

Smith, Claude 6005, 6030 

Spillman, Vince 6027 

Stachel, Jack 6004 

Stack, Walter 6004 

Stevens, Johnnie 6029 

Stevens, Mrs. Johnnie 6020 

Stone, Martha 6025 

Sullivan, John T 5984 

Sutherland, Milford i 6023 

Tangen, Eddie E 5970 

Telford, Kate (see also Bell, Kate) (Mrs. Sam Telford) 6003, 6004 

Telford, Sam 6004 

Towbin, Cyril 6009 

Townsend 5984 

Van Lydegraf, Clayton 6005 

Van Orman, J. H 6017, 6021 

Van Orman, Ruth (Mrs. J. H. Van Orman) 6021 

Wakefield, Lowell 5982, 5987, 6004 

Wallace, Ernest 6021 

Wallgren, Governor 5976 

Ward, Angela 6044 

West, James 6005, 6028 

West, Jean 6028 

Weston. Ed 5969 

Wheeler, Burton 5992 

Wheeler, Maybelle 6018 

Wildman, Harlow 6016, 6022 

Wildman, Leonard Basil 6013-6036 (testimony) 

Wildman, Muriel 6030 

Willkie, Wendell 5996 

Winburn, Joe 6020 

Wolfe, Hazel 6005 

Organizations 

AFL 5969, 5977, 5981, 6015 

American League Against War and Fascism 6004 

American Newspaper Guild, Seattle Chapter 5967 

American Radio Telegraphers Association 5999 

Building Service Emplojees Union 5987, 6004 



INDEX V 

Pag« 

CIO 5977, 5981, 6042 

CIO, Washington State 5969 

California Labor School 6043, 6044-6047 

Camp Unity 6024 

Children's Home Society ^ 5999 

College of Puget Sound 6022 

Commonwealth Builders 5976, 5978, 5979, 5981 

Communist Party: 
California : 

Alameda County 5974, 6041 

Los Angeles 6007 

England 5966, 5967 

Oregon : 

Portland 6050 

Portland, professional branch 6049 

Washington State: 

King County 5988 

Seattle 5999, 6003 

Siwkane 6018.6021 

33d Legislative District Branch 6030 

Communist Political Affairs Committee. Alameda County, Calif 5973 

Cooperative Commonwealth Federation of Canada 5978 

Federal Bureau of Investigation 5998, 6016, 6020, 6021, 6030, 6034 

Girl Scouts, Seattle 5999, 6001 

Harvard University 6038, 6039, 60^3, 6047 

Immigration and Naturalization Service 6016,6021 

Independent Citizens Committee of the Arts, Sciences, and Professions 5971 

Industrial Workers of the World 5979 

Institute of Industrial Relations 5969 

International Alliance of Theater and Stage Employees 5977 

International Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union 5989, 6028 

International Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union, Local 9 6025 

International Lumber and Woodworkers of America 6002, 6003 

International Woodworkers of America 5986, 59SS, 5990, 5991, 6004 

League of Hollywood Voters 5977 

Marine Cooks and Stewards Union 5970 

Musicians' Union 6009 

National Labor Relations Board 5966, 5970 

National Training School, Lake Unity, N. Y 6023, 6024 

National Youth Administration 6013 

Oxford University : 

Exeter College 5965, 5966, 5968 

Ruskin College 5968 

Pacific Northwest Labor School (see also Seattle Labor School) 5970, 5971 

Pacific Northwest United 5976 

Reed College, Oregon 5973, 

5974, 6028, 6039, 6040, 6042, 6044, 6045, 6047, 6048, 6050 

Rhodes scholarship 5965, 6022 

Seattle Labor School (see also Pacific Northwest Labor School) 5967-5972 

Socialist Party 6015 

Teamsters Union 6018 

Trade Union Unity League 6024 

Unemployed Council 6015-6020 

United Nations Appeal for Children 5976, 5977 

University of Budapest 6022 

University of California : 

Berkeley 5969, 5974, 6038, 6039 

Los Angeles 6039 

University of Oregon 6028 

University of Washington 5968, 

5969, 5986, 5987, 5989, 5999, 6001, 6004, 6005, 6027 

University of Washington Institute of Industrial Relations 5969 

University of Wisconsin 5968 

Washington Commonwealth Federation 5970, 

5976, 5979, 5980-5984, 5992, 6004, 6026 
Washington Interim Commonwealth 5981 



vi INDEX 

Page 

Washington Old Age Pension Union 5983-5985, 5988, 6006 

Washington State Advisory Commission 5976 

Washington State College 5965 

Washington State Federation of Labor, AFL 5969 

Washington State Planning Council 5976 

Washington Water & Power Co 6015 

Western Washington College of Education 5975 

Whitman College 5975 

Women's Century Club, Seattle 5971 

Workers x\lliance 6004, 6005, 6018, 6019 

Young Communist League 6005, 6014-6016, 6018-6023. 6025, 6027, 6028, 6033 

Young Communist League : 
Seattle : 

Ballard branch 6027 

Downtown branch 6027 

Green Lake branch 6027 

Madison Street branch 6027 

South Seattle branch 6027 

University of Washington branch 6027 

Spokane 6017 

Publications 

Daily People's World 5973, 5974, 5981, 5982, 6041, 6043, 6044. 6046 

Daily Worker 5982, 6004 

New Dealer (see Washington New Dealer). 

New York Times 5991 

New World 5981 

Oakland Tribune 5974, 6041 

Timber Worker 6002 

Voice of Action 6004 

Washington New Dealer 5981, 5982, 6004 

O 




«>' 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 

{PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA— Part 2 (SEATTLE) 
(Testimony of Barbara Hartle) 



HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMEMCAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 



EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



JUNE 14 AND 15, 1954 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 



INCLUDING INDEX 




48069 



UNITED STATES 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 

WASHINGTON : 1954 




Boston Public Library 
Superintendent of Documents 

OCT 27 1954 



COMMITTEE ON UX-AMERICAX ACTIVITIES 
United States House of Representatives 

HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois, Chairman 
BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania 

DONALD L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri 

KIT CLARDY, Michigan CLYDE DOYLE, California 

GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee 

Robert L. Kdnzig, Couufiel 

FRANK S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel 

Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk 

Raphael I. NixOn, Director of Research 

Courtney E. Owens, Chief Investigator 

II 



CONTENTS 

Page 

June 14, 1954, testimony of Barbara Hartle 6051 

June 15, 1954, testimony of Barbara Hartle 6089 

Index i 

III 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America, in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a wliole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United 
States, (ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-Amer- 
ican propaganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin 
and attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our 
Constitution, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid 
Congress in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House ( or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such in- 
vestigati'on, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 83d CONGRESS 
House Resolution 5, January 3, 1953 

*F Sp afS !|S ■!> Sp J|( 

RuleX 

standing committees 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 
the following standing committees : 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 



17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American activities. 

( b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcoimnittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1 ) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together witli such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of tlie committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 

VI 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA— Part 2 (SEATTLE) 

(Testimony of Barbara Hartle) 



MONDAY, JUNE 14, 1954 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Seattle, Wash, 

Public Hearing 

morning session 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to notice, 
at 9 : 03 a. m., in room 402, County-City Building, Seattle, Wash., Hon. 
Harold H. Velde (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde, 
Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, Clyde Doyle, and 
James B, Frazier, Jr. (appearance noted in transcript). 

Staff members present : Robert L. Kunzig, counsel ; Frank S. Tav- 
enner, Jr., counsel; William A. Wheeler, staff investigator; and 
Thomas W. Beale, Sr., clerk. 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order, please. 

Let the record show that present are Mr. Jackson, of California; 
Mr. Clardy, of Michigan ; Mr. Scherer, of Ohio ; Mr. Doyle, of Cali- 
fornia; and myself, of Illinois; and we expect Mr. Frazier, of Ten- 
nessee, to be here in a few moments. The full quorum of the com- 
mittee is present. 

May I make a brief opening statement regarding the purpose of 
our hearings here in the great city of Seattle ? 

Today the House Committee on Un-American Activities is com- 
mencing hearings dealing with the efforts and success of subversive 
infiltration in the Northwest area of the United States. There is 
probably no section of the United States that possesses a more stra- 
tegic importance than this area. The history of our great Nation 
shows that in the development of our resources and power there was 
a constant movement westward. Each step brought about new fron- 
tiers for oiir fathers and forefathers to settle and develop. Wliat was 
to them a last frontier might well be considered today in terms of the 
first. 

We Members of Congress recognize this fact and, unfortunately, so 
have the enemies of this country. 

The committee has in its records a document which shows the de- 
sign of the Communist Party toward the Northwest as early as 1935. 

6051 



6052 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

We must realize that while this document is nearly 20 years old, it 
states the pattern for Communist infiltration in this area, and you may 
judge from the testimony that ensues during the hearings the degree 
of success this insidious growth has had. 

This document contains the resolutions of the central political 
bureau of the Seattle district of the Communist Party and the dis- 
trict plan of work. 

Most of you will recall that during the time this document was 
written there had been in this area strikes involving the marine and 
lumber industries. The Communist Party hoped to utilize the diffi- 
culties ensuing from the strikes to strengthen their forces in this 
vicinity. 

I should like to quote briefly portions of this resolution to show you 
the importance the Communist Party attached to the Washington, 
Oregon, and Montana districts. They stated : 

In the past year the party has made progress in changing the character of the 
district from a membership based almost exclusively on the migratory single 
unemployed to a membership comprising a fair percentage of unemployed workers 
and members of the trade unions. Membership is making progress in learning 
how to carry on revolutionary work within the A.F. of L., and it is of the utmost 
importance that the party recruit into the ranks the most militant elements 
among lumber strikers in the most important centers and decisive mills, so that 
after after the strike the party will not sink back again into the former isola- 
tion from the lumber workers but will have a network of shop nuclei in the 
most important mills and camps and functioning fractions in the union locals 
and committees. The party must utilize the experience gained in the marine 
and lumber struggles to strengthen the forces and to improve its work in other 
A.F. of L. unions. 

(At this point Mr. Frazier entered the room. ) 

It is largely owing to the backwardness in this field that the party was unable 
to mobilize more effective support to the marine strikers last year and the lumber 
strikers this year. Similarly, in the other industries besides lumber and marine, 
especially in the war industries and plants, the party must make a real im- 
provement in the shopwork, considerably increasing the number of function- 
ing shop nuclei which are still at a very low figure in the district. The entire 
party must be brought to understand the strategic importance of the Pacific 
Northwest in American imperialism's program of war preparations. The build- 
ing of a broad united front against war and fascism must become a part of 
the daily tasks of the district. The Northwest Congress Against War and Fas- 
cism was an effective step in this direction. The party must help strengthen 
the united front in the Northwest section of the American League Against War 
and Fascism and strengthen the base of the league in the trade unions. 

. These portions of this Communist resolution clearly indicate the 
importance of the Northwest area in the Communist conspiracy. 

We are fortunate in having available valuable testimony from per- 
sons who are in a position to testify about the Communist machina- 
tions in district No. 12 of the Communist Party. I should like to 
state that these persons, who have for a long period worked against 
the common interests of all good Americans, have now in their power, 
through their testimony, the opportunity to take an important step 
back toward the road oi being good, loyal Americans. 

Since this is the first time that this committee has held hearings m 
this area, I feel that I should briefly explain what the duties and func- 
tions of this coimnittee are. 

The House Committee on Un-American Activities has been directed 
by the Congress to investigate and hold liearings to ascertain the ex- 
tent, character, and objectives of the un-American propaganda activi- 
ties in the United States, to investigate the diffusion within the United 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6053 

States of subversive and un-American propaganda that is instigated 
from foreign countries, and of a domestic origin Avhich attack the prin- 
ciples of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution ; 
and all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in 
any necessary remedial legislation. 

As a result of the work performed by this committee, the Internal 
Security Act of 1950 was made into law. Also, as a result of investi- 
gations and hearings by this committee, there have been 47 recommen- 
dations made by this committee to the Congress for new legislation 
or the strengthening of existing legislation. 

I am proud to state that there has been action on all but 8 of these 
recommendations, and of these 8 the Attorney General of the United 
States has within the past few months advised the Congress that in 
order to maintain security for this Nation there should be enacted leg- 
islation identical with 4 of the committee's recommendations. 

These recommendations are for the broadening of the admissibility 
of evidence for espionage and cases involving the internal security; 
for immunity of witnesses appearing before authorized Federal 
bodies ; for the death penalty for espionage committed in peacetime ; 
and for legislation which would break the hold of the Communist labor 
leaders of union organizations. 

It is in furtherance of the directions of the Congress that we are 
here today. The able staff of this committee has spent long, hard 
hours developing information upon which these hearings are based. 
Many subpenas have been issued for persons in this area or for those 
who possess information relating to the area. Every person sub- 
penaed by this committee was called because the committee is aware 
that these persons possess information which, if furnished, will assist 
the committee in its legislative duty. Every witness appearing here 
is entitled to be accompanied by counsel of his choosing and may con- 
sult with counsel whenever he desires. 

I should like to point out that the fact that an attorney is represent- 
ing any witness appearing before this committee, notwithstanding 
whatever attitude may be displayed by that witness, that this com- 
mittee does not desire and strongly discourages any inference of dis- 
loyalty on the part of that attorney. It is certainly one of the proud- 
est heritages of members of the bar that they will defend individuals 
no matter how unpopular the actions of that individual may be. 

It is a standing rule of the committee that any person who is named 
in these hearings be given an opportunity to appear before the com- 
mittee if he desires, and he should communicate with committee coun- 
sel for this purpose. 

On behalf of the committee and its staff, I wish to extend our thanks 
and appreciation to Mayor Pomeroy, the board of commissioners, who 
so kindly permitted the use of this hearing room, United States Mar- 
shal William B. Parsons, Sheriff Harlan S. Callahan, and Chief of 
Police Lawrence, and all the efficient and hardworking members of the 
police force of this area for everything they have done to make possible 
safe, effective, and informative hearings for the general citizenry of 
this Northwest area. 

You folks in the physical audience here today are guests of the Con- 
gress of the United States. The committee cannot function properly 
if any disturbance is caused and no disturbance will be tolerated. I 

48069—54 — pt. 2 2 



6054 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

appoint the police here now as deputy sergeants at arms to act in case 
anyone does make any particular disturbance that will interfere with 
the holding of these hearings. 

None of us members represent the great State of Washington. We 
do have one who may be called next-to-a-native-son — Congressman 
Doyle of California who, I understand, spent some years here in 
Seattle. 

Will you say a few words, Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. DoYi^E. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate your calling attention to 
the fact that when I was a little boy, back in 1902 and 1903 and 1904, 
I had the pleasure of living up here in what I learned then was called 
God's country ; and I did graduate, Mr. Chairman, from the Univer- 
sity Heights Grammar School here in Seattle. I remember with a 
great deal of affection my principal, Mr. Shaw, and my classroom 
teacher, Miss Gauthier. In those days, Mr. Chairman, I lived with 
my sister and her distinguished husband. Rev. Thomas Wiswold, who 
was the first pastor of the University Congregational Church, and I 
always enjoy coming back to the Pacific Northwest, which I learned 
very much to love. 

I think it appropriate, Mr. Chairman, for me to say that while I 
am the nearest thing on this committee to a native son of Washing- 
ton, I am likewise very proud of the fact that I am a native son of 
the golden State of California. Next to California, however, I love 
Washington, where my lovely wife was born. 

Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact that you mentioned in your very 
fine preliminary remarks the attitude that this committee has about 
lawyers appearing with witnesses, I was very pleased to note in the 
paper yesterday that the board of trustees of the Seattle Bar Associ- 
ation had issued a statement which appeared in the paper and, with 
your permission, I would like to read it. It is very brief. 

Mr. Velde. Proceed, sir. 

Mr. DoTLE. Being a member of the California State Bar and also 
a member of the bar of the Supreme Court of the United States, I 
take great pleasure in complimenting the Seattle Bar Association for 
making his resolution, which reads as follows : 

Throughout the course of history, lawyers have been called frequently to 
represent and defend persons and causes known to be unpopular. The lawyer 
has a duty to assert for his client every remedy or defense authorized by law. 
Such representation, when performed in accordance with ethical standards, is 
lawful and proper. 

The preceding paragraph, Mr. Chairman, to that statement read 
as follows : 

The committee rules provide that witnesses may have counsel. The board 
of trustees of the Seattle Bar Association issued a statement yesterday that 
the public should draw no unfair inference concerning an attorney who repre- 
sents a client who is uncooperative with the committee. 

I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your courtesy. 

Mr. C1-.ARDT. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, I don't think we should overlook the 
fact that the chief of our research division, Mr. Raphael I. Nixon, was 
raised in this town. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, are you ready to proceed ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6055 

Mr. KuNziG, Yes, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Will you call your first witness ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Barbara Hartle. 

TESTIMONY OF BARBARA HARTLE, ACCOMPANIED BY SPECIAL 
UNITED STATES DEPUTY MARSHAL DOROTHEA HALL 

Mr. Velde. Will you stand and be sworn, please ? 

In the testimony that you are about to give before this committee, 
do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Haktle. I do. 

Mr. Velde. You may be seated. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your full name, please, Mrs. Hartle ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Barbara Hartle. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, I have a few preliminary matters that 
I wish to go into prior to the initiation of the questioning. 

Have you been promised, Mrs. Hartle, any immunity or any re- 
payment of any kind for your appearance here today ? 

Mrs. Haetle. None whatever. 

Mr. KuNziG. In other words, your testimony is entirely voluntary 
on your part ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, it is. 

Mr. KuNziG. And, of course, you have been subpenaed by the com- 
mittee. 

Now, Mrs. Hartle you have previously been convicted in a Smith 
Act case, is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Am I also correct in that you have waived appeal in 
your case ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. What was your sentence, Mrs. Hartle ? 

Mrs. Hartle. 5 years imprisonment and $1,000 fine. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you have just begun serving that term, is that 
correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I should like to state for the record 
that with the cooperation of the executive branch of the Government 
and the Justice Department, Mrs. Hartle is here today, of course in the 
custody of a matron of the United States marshal's office. The matron 
is sitting next to Mrs. Hartle at the present time and will remain with 
her during her entire time out of prison. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. May I suggest that counsel give some explanation of 
what the Smith Act conviction really means? I am quite sure that 
most people do not understand or know what it is about. 

Mr. Velde. I suggest that the gentleman from Michigan make a 
brief explanation of it. 

Mr. Clardy. I merely wanted to make it clear on the record, Mr. 
Chairman, so that all those who may see and hear the witness will 
know that she, along with a number of others, have been convicted of 
being part of a conspiracy to overthow the Government through the 
use of force and violence. 



6056 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Velde. Thank you, Mr. Clardy. 

Proceed, Mr. Kunzig. 

Mr. Kunzig, Where were you born, Mrs. Hartle ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was born in Doty, Wash. 

Mr. Kunzig. It is the practice of this committee, under its long- 
standing rules, to explain to every witness that lie or she has a right 
to consult counsel or to have counsel sitting by them during the testi- 
mony. 

I note that you do not have counsel, Mrs. Hartle. Is it your desire 
to testify without counsel ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, it is. 

Mr. Kunzig. Would you tell the committee, please, your educational 
background ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was graduated from high school in Grants Pass, 
Oreg., and from college at Washington State College in 1929. 

Mr. Kunzig. Is that the extent of your formal education ? 

Mrs. Harti.e. Yes, it is. 

Mr. Kunzig. What was your major in college, Mrs. Hartle ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I majored in English. 

Mr. Kunzig. Would you tell the committee, please, what your class 
standing was in school ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was graduated with what was called high honors. 

Mr. Kunzig. Were you a member of any organization that had to do 
with honors ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was a member of Phi Beta Kappa. 

Mr. Kunzig. And you are today ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I am still a member ; yes. 

Mr. Kunzig. You finished your educational training in 1929. 
Would you kindly give the committee a brief resume of your employ- 
ment ? 

Mrs. Hartle. After being graduated from college, I worked for a 
time in Spokane for a weekly women's newspaper, the Spokane 
Woman, and then I became employed in the advertising department 
of the Crescent Department Store and I worked there about 4 years. 

Mr. Kunzig. What followed that period ? 

Mrs. Hartle. After that period, I started a circulating library in 
the Palace Department Store in Spokane, and shortly after that I 
moved to the Peyton Building and I had that circulating library and 
gift shop about 4 years. 

Mr. Kunzig. What year was it when you ended that period of the 
circulating library ? 

Mrs. Hartle. About 1933. 

Mr. Kunzig. We are just going now thi'ough a hasty resume of 
your work. 

What work did you take up at that time ? 

Mrs. Hartle. At that time I joined the Communist Party — about 
that time, too. 

Mr. Kunzig. Perhaps at this point it would be as good a time as 
any to ask you to please explain to the committee in your own words, 
in some detail, just why you joined the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. I had been laid off from the Crescent Department 
Store, along with others who were laid off at that time because of 
reduction in force. I was not fired, but there was a depression then 
and people were being laid off. And during that time many people 



I 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6057 

were discussing the depression and the effects of it. And I was trying 
to learn to be a writer and I read in a writer's booklet that you have 
to read both sides of every question to be a good writer. I wanted to 
be a great writer, so I read both sides; and one of these sides was 
Karl Marx' Das Kapital, which I secured in the public library and 
read. And after reading that, I became convinced that something had 
to be done. 

And Karl Marx talks about the Socialist Party; he doesn't talk 
about the Communist Party. And although I didn't feel very 
enthusiastic about it, I felt, after reading and studying that book, 
Das Kapital, volume I, that I should go and join the Socialist Party, 
which I did first. The Communist Party recruited me out of the 
Socialist Party into the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. Who recruited you into the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. J. H. Van Orman. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know his present whereabouts or address 
today? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, I do not. 

Mr. KuNziG. This Mr. Van Orman you knew then to be a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, he was the section organizer of the Communist 
Party in Spokane at that time. 

Mr. KuNziG. How did he go about getting you into the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There was a foreword to my going into the Uoin- 
munist Party. I was first asked to join the Friends of the Soviet 
Union, wliich was an organization that was supposedly working for 
friendship between the Soviet Union and the United States. I had 
some doubts about Soviet Russia. I had read about the labor slave 
camps in Sibp.ria and I undoubtedly expressed some of these doubts, 
but by getting into the Friends of the Soviet Union and hearing 
much talk — many speakers — and reading much material, those doubts 
were evidently resolved sufficiently for me at that time so that I was 
prepared through the Friends of the Soviet Union membership for 
recruitment into the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now would you please, just briefly, give us the rest 
of your employment up to the present time, so that we have the over- 
all picture? Then we will go back and delve into many portions of 
your life. 

Mrs. Hartle. In about 1937 I sold my book store at the behest of 
the district organizer, Morris Rappaport, and worked about a year 
or a year and a half in the Workers' Book Store in Spokane, which 
was the Communist Party bookstore. 

After that, I had a leave of absence from the Communist Party 
for a period, in which I worked in Montana in my sister's restaurant 
and was not active organizationally in the Communist Party, al- 
though I took the Daily Worker and constantly put forth resolutions 
in the union I belonged to along the Communist Party line. 

In about 1940 I came back to Spokane and, after working a very 
short time in a restaurant, I was put on as a full-time organizer of 
the Communist Party in Spokane, until June of 1912. 

At that time the district leadership prevailed upon me to come to 
Seattle, and I worked for the Communist Party as an organizer in 
Seattle from 1942 to 1950, about July. At that time I was sent under- 
ground by the district leadership. 



6058 COMMUNIST Activities in the pacific northwest Area 

Mr, ItuNziG. And you remained underground, Mrs. Hartle, until 
when ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Until 1 was arrested by the FBI on September 17, 
1952. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Cbairman, 1 think the witness should explain 
at this time what she means by being sent undergrovmd, 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you kindly do that, ISIrs. Hartle ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, by being sent underground, I mean that one 
of the district officials came to my house, when I was busy trying to 
sell some furniture and rearrange my living accommodations, and 
he walked in the door and he said, "Well, Barbara, this is it." And 
I had no idea of what he meant "it" would be. I was somewhat 
startled. And then he explained to me that conditions were getting 
very serious and that some people were going to have to leave the 
district. 

He asked me to come to a meeting in a park in this city and I came 
to that meeting. Four persons were present — all district leaders, and 
there it was discussed which fwo i>eople should leave this district, as- 
sume false names and live completely incognito until such a time as 
the operating leadership might be arrested or removed, with the under- 
standing that then whichever of us went underground would then 
assume that leadership. 

Mr. KuNziG. I think for the present time that is sufficient for a brief 
explanation of going underground, Mrs. Hartle. We will go into that 
in much greater detail at a further point in your testimony. 

Now, Mrs. Hartle, before going into specific points of your testimony, 
I wish you would explain to the committee, as you have so carefully 
to us, in detail, just how you came to make the decision to talk with the 
FBI and with this committee and why you decided to break and leave 
the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I think I should start by saying that my breaking 
with the Communist Party was not a simple, single act; that this 
breaking with the Communist Party covered a period of years; that 
from time to time I had questions and doubts about the policies and 
practices of the party; but each time, through some way or another, 
these doubts would either be forgotten or somewhat resolved and I 
would go forward. 

One of the reasons that I agreed to go underground, not realizing 
how serious a situation that would be — an impossible situation for a 
person of my temperament and attitude — was that I was so tired of 
organizational activity and problems that did not seem to be leading 
to anything fruitful, and I ]ust accepted the assignment to go under- 

f round in the hopes that I could get away from this constant rush and 
ustle and difficulties that I couldn't seem to help to resolve. 

My agreeing to go underground was actually a part of my breaking 
away from the Communist Party, although it might not seem so to 
many persons. 

Then when I was underground, I had time to myself and I took the 
opportunity to resume reading of literary classics which I was very 
interested in throughout my life, and I found that by reading that 
kind of material again my mind became more settled down and I began 
to feel better ; my health got better. 

I also started doing sewing and crocheting and things that I had 
had no time for in the Communist Party, and I began to enjoy having 



COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6059 

a life somewhat ordered and with some semblance of peace about it. 

Mr. KuNZiG. "Was life in the Communist Party one emergency after 
another ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, it certainly is— one emergency after another — 
one crisis after another. 

And then, after being gone for a while, I decided, while I was under- 
ground, that I would quit the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. When was this, to the best of your remembrance? 

Mrs. Hartle. About the beginning of 1952. I decided that I would 
just quit the Communist Party ; that if Communists wanted to go on 
and do what they were doing, that was probably their privilege and 
their decision, but I made the decision in my own mind that I would 
quit the Communist Party and lead my own life. 

I attempted to do this by breaking my contact in the underground, 
but the people who were in contact with me did not accept that break- 
ing but pursued me almost within a week of the time that I was ar- 
rested. They came and called on me; they tried to convince me that 
I had to go to meetings, and they tried to reactivize me. They put 
it that they were trying to help me, but what they were trying to help 
me do was to get back into the full swing of the Communist Party. 
I am certain that they were not trying to help me solve my problems. 

Mr. Clardt. They never are interested in the individual's personal 
problems, anyway, are they, except as they further the interests of the 
Communist Party as a whole ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is true. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Mrs. Hartle has mentioned breaking contact. 

I wonder if we could have something of an elaboration on what you 
meant by breaking contact. "Was this actually involving personalities 
with which you were in contact ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, sir. Breaking contact meant missing a meeting, 
a prearranged meeting with someone ; and anyone that broke the con- 
tact was supposed to make it, of course, a week later, or something like 
that. 

Well, I didn't make mine at all, and the Communist Party knew 
that I had deliberately broken the contact. 

Then, to answer the question further, after I was arrested under the 
Smith Act, I had no intentions of rejoining the Communist Party or 
resuming my activity as a Communist. I did decide, though, still 
under Communist influence, that I would go through with the trial ; 
that I would take whatever sentence I got — and I was objective enough 
to realize that I would get one — and serve whatever sentence I had, 
and then to come out and live my own life. 

What made me decide to go to the FBI was that the Communist 
Party was not satisfied with even that and harassed me and pursued 
me to the point that I saw for the first time, clearly, since I had been 
a member, what the Communist Party really is — that it is not for free- 
dom and democracy and peace and security, but that it is an organiza- 
tion of highly disciplined — and I said to myself, "It must have a 
different purpose than I have believed," and I was able to see what 
so many people can see readily — that the Communist Party is not for 
the purpose of serving the best interests of our country or our people 
or even our working class, if you want to use that term, but that it is. 



6060 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

a highly disciplined organization that puts Soviet Russia and world 
communism first. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. Mrs. Hartle, did I understand you to say that that was 
the first time that you discovered that the Communist Party in Amer- 
ica was not for freedom and peace ? Did I understand you to say that ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. When did you discover that? 

Mrs. Harti.e. I discovered that about 2 days before I went to 
the FBI. 

Mr. Doyle. What caused you to discover it at that time, finally ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I discovered it then because I could not understand 
this harassment of me — people coming to me morning, noon, and 
night and pressuring me to carry on more activity — do this, do that ; 
speak here; you have got to speak as a Communist; you have got to 
get active ; we are trying to help you, and we want to take up your 
problems and discuss them. 

And I finally realized that what was being done to me was just really 
high pressure to stay in the Communist Party and act like one and be 
one — against my wishes, which were made abundantly clear. 

Mr. Doyle. How did you get your support, your livelihood, during 
the time that you were underground ? Who paid it ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I received some funds from the Communist Party — 
$200 or $300, but I worked in restaurants and other places and earned 
my living. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mrs. Hartle, I don't wish to interrupt your trend of 
thought at this moment, but I think there is something that we might 
well go into here since we were just talking about the Smitli Act trial 
and you are here testifying, giving us the benefit of 3^our background 
and Communist activity. 

I want to ask you, is there any general directive or setup in the Com- 
munist Party that tells a Communist how to appear before a congres- 
sional committee or how he is supposed to behave in a court trial? 
Could you give us the benefit of your knowledge on that subject ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There has been considerable material written about 
that from time to time in Commmiist Party literature. 1 do remember 
specifically a document tluit was circulated during the trial or just 
before it. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you mean your trial now ? 

Mrs. Hartle. My trial — wliich gave a general directive that it was 
necessary not to water down basic princijiles in the trial in at jittempt 
to secure acquittals. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Is the courtroom or a hearing room supposed to be 
used as a propaganda medium for carrying forth the Communist Party 
line? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. That I have always understood, and that has 
always been the proper attitude of a Communist in a court or any 
place else — is always to be a (communist first. 

Mr. KiJNziG. Were any instructions given along the line of not con- 
tradicting earlier statements of other Communists ? 

]\frs. Hartle. Yes; that was contained in some remarlcs made by a 
Comnnmist leader. 

Mr. KuNzm. Would you explain that just a little bit, please? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6061 

Mrs. Hartle. It was pointed out tliat testimony given in the Seattle 
Smith Act trial should not contradict testimony given by other Smith 
Act defendants in other Smith Act trials. 

Mr. KuNziG. What do the Communists mean when they warn some- 
one against "legalism" ? 

Mrs. Hartle. "Legalism," according to the Communist Party, is 
to have reliance on the courts, to rely on an attorney's ability as an 
attorney, instead of relying on mass pressure and on winning the point 
politically instead of legally. 

Mr. KuNziG. In other words, as a Communist, you are not supposed 
to rely on receiving justice in the courts? Is that the line that is 
given out ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is certainly correct. They are bourgeois courts 
that have no justice for workers, according to the Communist Party. 

Mr. Clardy. Yet at the same time they avail themselves of every 
technicality and move that can be made to obstruct and delay and, 
if possible, stop the trial ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is in the realm of tactics; that is considered 
good tactics. 

Mr. Clardy. You appear in court, you make your appearance, but 
you use it as a forum to get Communist propaganda across ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; if you are acting properly as a Communist that 
is what you will do. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is a defendant in a Smith Act trial supposed to sub- 
ordinate his own interests to the interests of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. He must do so to be a Communist in any kind of 
standing. 

Mr. KuNziG. So that even when a defendant in a trial before the 
courts of justice of the United States, there is still no freedom for a 
Communist to do or say what he thinks ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Absolutely not. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask this question ? 

Does that go to the point of giving perjured testimony, if necessary? 
In other words, does that go to the point of giving false testimony ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I know of no concrete example for or against that. 

Mr. Scherer. Will you yield, Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. You did say, however, a few moments ago. Witness, 
that the testimony in a current Smith Act trial must not differ with 
testimony given at a previous trial. Didn't you say that ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is right. I said that ; yes. 

Mr. Scherer. Wouldn't that indicate, if that took place, that there 
must be perjury somewhere along the line, as Mr. Doyle indicated ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, the reason I hesitated to say "perjury," is that 
I am not an attorney myself, and I don't know whether it would or 
wouldn't involve perjury. 

Mr. Scherer. It has to conform to the previous testimony whether 
it is true or false, does it not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That point was made — that different witnesses in 
different trials shouldn't be testifying differently about books, in order 
not to have contradictions in the testimony. Now if that adds up to 
perjury, I have no objections to it. I presume in some cases it cer- 
tainly would. 

48069— 54— pt. 2 3 



6062 COMJMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Velde. Mrs. Hartle, if a Communist committed perjury and 
got caught at it, it would be bad for the Communist cause, would it 
not? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. I think that would be a fair statement. 

Mr. Velde. How about the instructions relative to using our con- 
stitutional amendments to avoid answering questions? Do you have 
any knowledge of any instructions that are given by the Communist 
Party along that line. 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, my understanding of that is that in that kind 
of cases, it is to avoid perjury. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask one further question, Mrs, Hartle ? 

I think your almost exact language in your own direct testimony 
on the point that I raised was as follows : 

It was impressed upou us that testimony given in the Seattle Smith Act trial 
must not contradict testimony given in previous Smith Act trials. 

Mrs. Hartle. That is right. 

Mr. Doyle. Now who impressed that upon you ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Such a remark^ — such an analysis was given by Henry 
Huff, who was chairman of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Doyle. Am I to understand that none of the attorneys for the 
Smith Act defendants ever undertook to impress that upon you? 

Mrs. Hartle. No ; none of the attorneys did. 

Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, I want to inform the committee so that 
they know this fact : It is my understanding that during the time you 
have been here in prison these last few weeks, you have been search- 
ing yovir mind and your memory, making notes to the best of your 
ability, so that you could give the committee the sum total of your 
knowledge, to the best of your ability, about Communist activities; 
is that correct? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. KuNZiG. And I am sure that the committee has no objection if 
Mrs. Hartle makes use of her notes. 

It that all right, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr, Velde. Yes, that is all right. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, before we proceed to another subject, 
may I ask another question ? 

Mr, Velde, You may. 

Mr. Scherer. You mentioned a short time ago in your testimony, 
Mrs. Hartle, that you broke contact. Was that tlie first time that the 
Communist Party knew that you had decided to leave it? 

Mrs, Hartle. Yes, I believe tliat is correct. 

Mr, Scherer. Now you ex})lained what breaking contact meant. 
What was the specific contact that you broke? Do you recall? 

Mrs. Hartle. A meeting. I just didn't go to a meeting that I was 
supposed to go to with someone. 

Mr. Scherer. A meeting of the underground ? 

Mrs. Hartle. A meeting with another person in the underground. 

Mr. Scherer. Was it to convey any information to that person at 
that particular time ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6063 

Mrs. Hartle. No, just to keep contact, so that everyone would know 
where you were and where they could reach you when it became 
necessary. 

Mr. ScHERER. That contact wasn't with reference to any specific 
project or the passing of any specific information, was it ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No. Although information was passed and litera- 
ture was passed, and matters were taken up. But I broke the contact, 
which meant to the person with whom I broke it that I was failing 
in my responsibilities. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is all. 

Mr. Clardy. May I inquire, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, right along that same line, isn't it true that 
tlie Communist Party requires its members to devote practically every 
hour of the day to furthering the cause of the party one way or 
another ? 

Mrs. Hartle, The Communist Party attempts to activize its mem- 
bers to give their time, energy, finances, and any other ability to Com- 
munist Party work; especially for a full-time organizer, as I was, it 
certainly meant that. 

Mr. Clardy. In the event that you falter or fail, even insofar as a 
single meeting is concerned, does that not result in your being dis- 
ciplined if you still remain in the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There has to be a good explanation of why you were 
absent from a meeting, yes. 

Mr. Clardy. In your case, however, the single instance of your 
not going back again was enough to tell them that you had broken 
contact ? • Is that what you were trying to tell us ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, and then I did break other meetings after that, 
where I definitely had promised that I would be there without fail 
and then didn't appear. 

Mr. Clardy. The point that I was trying to understand clearly 
was that unless you do dedicate all your waking hours and maybe 
your sleeping ones, too, to the interests of the party, that is taken 
by the leadership of the party as a sign that you are a backslider 
and are not to be trusted ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. That is true especially for the older members 
and the longer time members. A softer policy is pursued toward 
newer members. They are what you call sort of led into this intense 
activity. 

Mr. Clardy. Once you are thoroughly indoctrinated and brought 
all the way into the inner circle, though, they will tolerate no monkey 
business, will they ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson-. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. I don't know what line of questioning counsel is 
about to embark upon, but I would suggest that if he is approaching 
the point wliere there are going to be brought into the testimony 
the names of individuals that it be understood as between counsel, 
witness, and committee members that in all instances where names 
are given that they be given with the understanding on the part 
of the witness that they are persons known personally to her to have 
been members of the Communist Party, either by (1) attendance at 



6064 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

closed meetings of the Communist Party, (2) personal knowledge 
on the part of the witness as to a membership card in the Communist 
Party, (3) personal knowledge of the payment of dues in the Com- 
munist Party or personal knowledge on the part of the witness as to 
specific Communist Party activities carried out by the individuals 
so named. 

Is that understood ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson". So that it will not be necessary for the committee 
in each instance to inquire as to your personal knowledge of the indi- 
vidual you name. 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. The persons I name will definitely be mem- 
bers of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Jackson. Within your own personal knowledge ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. May I make a further suggestion, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. Since I understand she has a lengthy list, would it 
expedite it if some of the details as to address and other things be 
furnished in the form of a statement subsequent to the appearance 
on the stand and incorporated in the record at the proper place so 
that we won't waste too much time on that ? 

Mr. Velde. I think that is an excellent idea. However, I think 
we should go into executive session and discuss that problem, de- 
pending upon how this situation develops. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. May I suggest that the very fine premise laid down by 
Committee Member Jackson regarding the testimony of Mrs. Hartle 
be also agreed to as the fundamental premise for all witnesses who 
appear before this committee, even though you Mr. Chairman, may 
have to remind the other witnesses of it ? 

Let us agree now that the statement made by Committee INIember 
Jackson will also apply to every witness, insofar as the witness naming 
any persons is concerned. 

Mr. Velde. Yes. Without objection, I think we will proceed along 
that line. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, I was going to ask you to look into your 
notes and jottings where you discuss the importance of lawyers to 
the Communist Party — the legal end of the Communist Party; we 
were on that point a few moments ago. 

What particular importance, if any, is the legal field to the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle, I would say that the Communist Party has paid at- 
tention to and made inroads into various professional fields, but that 
the legal field has been particularly important to it. Sympathetic 
attorneys of Communist Party members who are attorneys, and who 
could practice law, liave more than a united-front kind of service to 
give to the Communist Party. As I see it, they are an indispensable 
part of the Communist Party's functioning, at least in our country 
today, and during the time that I was in the Communist Party. 

What this concerns is not only the Communist Party's ability to 
function in a mass way but its ability to function at all. I have in 
mind if the Communist Party wants to pursue a project, sometimes 



i 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6065 

it is necessary to have legal aid in order to be able to pursue the proj- 
ect. This might not be the case in other fields of mass work or pro- 
fessional work. 

But it is sort of indispensable to the Communist Party — some type 
of legal aid for its functioning. 

]VIr. KuNziG. Have you heard any discussions about this problem in 
any district board meetings, for example ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I have heard discussions to the effect that more 
efforts have to be made to find attorneys in Seattle who will take civil- 
rights cases, and I have heard reports from Henry Huff on returning 
from national headquarters of the Communist Party that there had 
been problems with attorneys in the Foley Square trial. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wlien you say the Foley Square trial, do you mean 
the original trial of the 11 Communists ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes — and in pointing out that it is difficult to find 
attorneys who can fight along the Communist line and who do not 
resort to technicalities in attempts to win the cases. 

One of the features of the Communist Party is to have a distrust 
of the political ability of attorneys, and this has been especially a 
feature of Communist analysis since the reconstitution of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you explain at this point what you mean by 
the reconstitution of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The Communist Party of the United States was dis- 
banded under Earl Browder's leadership in 1944 and a Communist 
Political Association was set up by the same people — almost all the 
same — not with Earl Browder, though, when the party was reconsti- 
tuted in 1945. 

Mr, KuNziG. Now you were speaking about attorneys. Are you sug- 
gesting that attorneys are put in the position of accepting the spurious 
political leadership of Communist Party leaders if they do accept that 
leadership ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that is the case. From the Communist point of 
view, the better the attorney, the closer he follows the Communist 
Party line and the less he relies on sound legal arguments or any kind 
of legal arguments. 

Now it would be incorrect to say that the Communist Party doesn't 
expect attorneys to find legal arguments to bolster the case, but when 
these legal arguments contradict or are in clash with the Communist 
Party line, the legal arguments have to go out the window and the 
Communist Party line has to prevail. 

Mr. KuNziG. You saw this system in operation in your own trial, 
did you not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, it was done. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you have any knowledge about the work of the 
National Lawyers' Guild from the Coimnunist Party standpoint ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I understood that work in the National Lawyers' 
Guild by Communist Party members as being the same type of work 
that a Communist Party members w^ould do in a labor union or in any 
other mass organization of people. Being in the legal field, much of the 
effort there by Communists would revolve around combating legisla- 
tion that would restrict the Communist Party in any way. 

Mr. KxjNziG. I think at this point, Mr. Chairman, we should again 
reiterate what has already been said on the record, and that is that 



6066 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle has been giving testimony from the standpoint of what 
she learned in the Communist Party, and no inference should be taken 
against any lawyers who appear in this hearing, as you have already 
stated. 

Mr. Velde. That is a very good observation, of course. 

Mr. KuNziG. I would now like to turn to the subject of youth in 
the Communist Party. 

I believe you have gone into that problem, and I wish you would 
give us the benefit of your knowledge now on the position of youth 
and communism. 

You may take time, if you wish, to find your notes. I know you 
have a great deal of information there. 

Mrs. Hartle. The Communist Party's position on youth is that 
the youth field is very important, that tlie coming generation of 
Communists, of course, comes from the youth, just as all other coming 
generations come from them. But the Communist Party attaches a 
special importance to youth because they say that when young people 
join the party and learn Marxism and Leninism that they will have 
more enthusiasm and more energy to give the party than when a middle 
aged or older person is recruited into the party. And I have heard it 
said in Communist Party circles that when a young person is brouglit 
forward as an organizer, he will last longer than an older person will, 
which I used to think was quite a crass way of putting the question, 
until I became more indoctrinated and was so certain that the Com- 
munist Party was right that I felt that it was entitled to take that kind 
of an attitude. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you give us the names of any members, as has been 
explained by Mr. Jackson, of the Communist Party ayIio were active in 
the youth commission, in working with you ? 

Mrs. Hartle. At the time that I was given the district board assign- 
ment to head youth work 

Mr. KuNziG. Roughly, when would that have been? 

Mrs. Hartle. About 1949 and 1950, the last year that I was in 
Seattle — a youth committee was set up, which I worlced M'ith, con- 
trolled, and guided all of its activities and tried to train the youth 
along Communist Party lines ; and on that youth committee I remem- 
ber a young man named Al Cumming — Robert Krahl, Calvin Harris. 

I haven't found my notes yet. They are quite extensive. 

Those are some that I can remember being on that youth committee, 
at this moment. 

Mr. Velde. Mrs. Hartle, I wonder if you could give us a little more 
positive identification, such as their occupations or their addresses or 
their background ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Al Cumming was a young man in a marine radio 
union. I don't know the exact name of the union. He was in the 
waterfront section of the Communist Party and was assigned by the 
waterfront to the youth commission. 

Robert Krahl had a similar background — the same union, in the 
waterfront section. 

Calvin Harris was a young Negro man who was quite young and, as 
far as I know, he didn't have any particular trade background and 
lived in the south part of King County and was assigned by the south 
King region of the Communist Party to the youth committee. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6067 

Another person who was assigned to the committee was a young 
man from the central King County region of the Communist Party, 
John Healey. He was in one or another of the building trades. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know a George Starkovich ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. George Starkovich was on that committee. He 
was a member of a lumber union in Bellingham. 

Mr. KuNziG. And any person by the name of Dortha Bowen ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you spell that name ? 

Mrs. Hartle. D-o-r-t-h-a B-o-w-e-n. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did she have anything to do with the Labor Youth 
League ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; she was assigned by the youth commission under 
my direction to take leadership and officership in the Labor Youth 
League. 

Mr. Velde. Now, as I understand it, Mrs. Hartle, these folks you 
have just mentioned were all members of the Labor Youth League and 
likewise members of the Communist Party or on the youth committee 
of the Communist Party ; is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Most of the members of the youth committee of the 
Communist Party were also members of the Labor Youth League. In 
a case where a youth committee member was not a member of the 
Labor Youth League, it was because he was carrying on Communist 
youth work in some other organization, like the National Association 
for the Advancement of Colored People, or he might have been suf- 
ficiently involved in University of Washington youth-organization 
work that it was not considered feasible for him to organizationally 
be also a member of the Labor Youth League. But that was not a 
matter of principle ; it was a matter of assignment. 

Mr. Velde. I should like to state at this time that the Labor Youth 
League has been cited by the Attorney General and by this committee, 
I believe, as being a Communist organization. It is the successor to 
the American Youth for Democracy, which in turn succeeded the 
Young Communist League. 

Is that correct, Mrs. Hartle ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. Each of those organizations have been spon- 
sored by the Communist Party at different periods. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. To what extent does the Communist Party direct or 
supervise or control the Labor Youth League ? 

Mr. Hartle. In Seattle, when I was assigned by the district board 
to youth work, the Communist Party completely guided or dominated 
the work of the Labor Youth League. 

Mr. Jackson. It is very interesting to have that comment, and I 
hope it will be brought home to some of the university officials through- 
out the country who still tolerate the Labor Youth League on their 
campuses. 

Mr. Clardy. That applies with special force to Michigan, where 
we just had hearings, as you know. 

Mr. Velde. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, did you have occasion in your youth 
work to know a Carl Harvey Jackins ? 



6068 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew of Harvey Jackins as being' involved in Com- 
munist youth work some years aoi;o. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, this is Carl Harvey Jackins, of 6Y53 
32d Avenue, WW., Seattle. We have already had two other identific- 
cations in executive session of this Mr. Jackins as a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Now is there any other information that you can give the committee, 
Mrs. Hartle, on the task of the youth commission in reviving and build- 
ing up this Labor Youth League ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The youth commission, under my leadership, at that 
time made the decision — and this, of course, followed national Com- 
munist policy — that the Labor Youth League must be built and or- 
ganized and get as many affiliates as possible. There was already a 
small Labor Youth League, but in my work with the youth committee 
the attempt was to revive the Labor Youth League, to draw many, 
many youths into it, to get a number of youth organizations, already 
in existence, to affiliate with it or have some kind of relations with it 
and thereby to build tlie Labor Youtli League. 

Mr, Clardy. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire ? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. You used a phrase as you went along there that this, 
of course, was in line with the Communist Party line or doctrine. 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you enlarge on that? Was there any deviation 
permitted by any of these front organizations from the standard Com- 
munist Party line? 

Mrs. Hartle. No. When a deviation develops in a front organiza- 
tion, the Communist Party immediately sets about to correct it, and 
this can be done in any number of ways; but if it really is a front or- 
ganization and the Communist Party controls it, that deviator will be 
thrown out or those deviating policies will be corrected, 

Mr, Clardy. Then when they prate about this committee and others 
suppressing freedom of thought and freedom of speech, they really 
are tlie ones who are demanding complete conformity right down the 
line, aren't they? 

Mrs. Hartle. They are past masters, and I would say, in that sense 
come closer to being scientific than in any other sense. 

Mr. Clardy. Thank you. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, do you recall a Blaine Peace Arch peace 
demonstration early in 1950 ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I remember that. 

Mr, KuNziG, Would you discuss that with the committee and tell 
the committee wliat tlie Communist Party had to do with it? 

Mrs, Hartle. That Blaine Peace Arch Park peace demonstration 
was organized througli the efforts of the Labor Youth League and 
through the efforts of members of the Communist Party youth com- 
mission, who were active in other fields of work. That whole project 
was directed and guided and organized under my leadership, and when 
the demonstration was held, the whole Communist Party mobilized 
to bring people out to it and to support it, 

Mr. DoYi.E. When was that, please, Mrs. Hartle ? 

Mrs, Hartle, I believe it was in the early part of 1950, 

Mr. Doyle. Here in Seattle ? 



COIVIAIUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6069 

Mrs. Hartle. No, at Blaine, at the peace arch park on the border be- 
tween here and Canada. 

]\Ir. KuNziG. I would like to turn to another subject, another person, 
Mrs. Hartle, and ask you if you at any time knew a Philip Luther — I 
believe it is pronounced Ceis, C-e-i-s as a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. This Mr. Ceis, I believe, is a building contractor, is 
that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that is correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. From Seattle here ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you tell the committee, from your own personal 
knowledge — of course w^e are only interested, as Mr. Jackson has said, 
in your own personal knowledge about these people— whether Philip 
Ceis was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I first knew Phil Ceis as a Communist Party member, 
who was at that time in youth work, in about 1942 and 1943, when I 
first came to Seattle, and it was at that time that the Communist Party 
youth setup was the Young Communist League. 

I have been with Phil Ceis in a number of Communist Party and 
also Communist Political Association functionaries' meetings, many 
of which have been held at Communist Party headquarters at 304 
Marion Street — also at other places. 

The next that I remember about Mr. Ceis is that Ed Alexander 

Mr. KuNziG. Wlio was Ed Alexander ? 

Mrs. Hartle. A district official of the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where? 

Mrs. Hartle. In Seattle — discussing with me that he planned to 
have Ceis teach dialectical and historical materialism in a Commu- 
nist Party school. I remember quizzing Alexander as to Ceis' ability 
to teach this very deep subject, and I was assured by Alexander that 
Ceis was fully capable. This was in about 1944. 

Later I knew Ceis as a member of the Alki branch in the West 
Seattle section in 1948 and 1949, and I have attended several of his 
branch meetings with him during that period. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you have any personal discussion with Ceis on 
the subject of communism ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I did. After the reconstitution of the Com- 
munist Party, I remember sitting in a house on Beacon Hill in the 
drawing room and discussing with Mr. Ceis about Earl Browder, 
and at that time Mr. Ceis told me that he thought that Earl BroAvder's 
opinions on what the Communist movement should be in the United 
States were more correct than those of William Z. Foster and others — 
the ones really at the head of the Communist Party. 

This, of course, would be on Ceis' part called "Browderism." How- 
ever, Ceis did not drop his membership in the Communist Party and 
later there were several discussions among district leaders, including 
Huff, Van Lydegraf and Ealph Hall, to the effect that Ceis was not 
overcoming his Browderism. 

In about 1949, when a member was about to be expelled upon dis- 
trict insistence in the Alki branch of the Communist Party to which 
Mr. Ceis belonged, he again expressed his disagreement with the dis- 

48069— 54— pt. 2 4 



6070 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

trict leadership. He opposed very strongly the highhanded method 

of the district in trying to throw Margaret Haglund 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you spell that name ? 
Mrs. Hartle. li-a-g-1-u-n-d. 
Mr. KuNziG. "Who was Margaret Haglund ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Margaret Haglund was a member of the Alki branch 
of the Communist Party who, after the reconstitution, disagreed with 
the Communist Party — expressed her disagreement and was expelled 
from the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. "V\^iat further happened at this meeting you were 
discussing ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Ceis and Hall got into a very heated argument, Hall 
expressing the opinions of the district that Margaret Haglund had 
strayed way off the path and ought to be expelled and Ceis taking 
the opinion that this was a pretty undemocratic and high-handed 
procedure and protesting it. 

Mr. KuNziG. You mean that sometimes democratic procedures get 
discussed even in Communist meetings, is that right ? 

Mrs. Hartle, In this sort of fashion, they do sometimes; yes. 
Mr. Clardy. Discussing them is about as far as it is carried, though, 
isn't it? 

Mrs. Hartle. It is not usually discussed in a very gentle manner. 
This was quite a heated discussion. 

Mr. Clardy. I mean they do not follow those practices ; they merely 
talk about them. 

Mrs. Hartle. They do talk about them quite a bit. That will serve 
' to fool many people and did serve to fool me. A wiser person would 
not have been fooled, no doubt. 

Mr. Clardy. In other words, by talking about things of that kind 
and by using language that will appeal, a gi'eat many people who 
ought to know better are sucked into the movement and aid the cause 
sometimes without even knowing it. Would you say that is a fair 
statement ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is true. That is a very fair statement. 
Mr. KuNZiG. Mrs. Hartle, when was the last time that you attended 
any branch meetings or any other activity in the Communist Party 
with Phil Ceis? 

Mrs. Hartle. The last branch meeting tliat I can remember attend- 
ing with him was probably in 1948 or early 1949. 
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Cliairman. 
Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. Mrs. Hartle, I am not sure that I have heard you tes- 
tify yet that any of these branch meetings, or meetings where you were 
with this man Ceis, were closed Communist meetings. Would the 
public have been admitted if they were invited ? In other words, non- 
Communists — would they have been admitted to these meetings that 
you attended with this man ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No ; they would not have been present at a branch 
meeting. 

It is possible to invite a visitor to a branch meeting, provided that 
that visitor's name is brought up in advance and it is fullv explained 
what he is there for; but most of the branch meetings— l^you^d say 
99 or 991/2 percent of the branch meetings do not have a visitor there 
and have not had for 10 years. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6071 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, you knew definitely that Phil Ceis was a 
member of the Communist Party ; is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; I knew definitely. I have discussed his mem- 
bership with him ; I have seen him pay dues, and I know that he was 
a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Jackson. In general, Mrs. Hartle, you are proceeding, are you 
not, as was stipulated earlier with reference to all of these people ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is true. 

Mr. Clardy. Coming back to the closed-meeting angle, even when 
someone who is not already a member of the Communist Party may 
be admitted, is it not true that that person must at least be in sym- 
pathy with or at least a prospect for membership or there will be no 
Communist business discussed while that person is present? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. I would say that the only visitor I know of at 
a Communist Party branch meeting is a definite prospect, and in these 
latter years the prospects haven't even gotten to the meeting ahead of 
time. 

Mr. Jackson. That is to say, the Communist Party never, of course, 
invites the bureau chief of the FBI in to discuss tactics ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No ; they never do. 

Mr. Clardy. It is only those of us who believe in our form of gov- 
ernment that allow that sort of thing to happen, isn't it? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr, Clardy. We will let Communists in to our meetings — allow 
people in who disagree with us so that we might convert them, but 
the Communists doirt work that way, do they ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No ; they don't. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, you mentioned dues paying. Would you 
tell the committee what your knowledge is about Ceis paying dues 
and how much, if you know ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I believe that the last dues that he paid were dues of 
$2 a month, the highest category. 

Mr. Velde. You say that was in the high category ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. The dues ranged from 35 cents up to $2 a 
month, and I think in some cases $5 a month, if the income is high 
enough. The dues are small in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Velde. You are not including any special assessments in that, 
are you? 

Mrs. Hartle. No ; I am not including financial contributions. They 
are high. 

Mr. KuNziG. I was just about to ask you, Mrs. Hartle, if you know 
of any special contributed sums by Phil Ceis ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I have known Phil Ceis to contribute sums of $100 
and $200 to various Communist Party and Communist Party press 
fund drives. Such drives take place about twice a year, as best I can 
remember, he contributed some such sum to all those drives. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, what do you mean when you talk about 
Communist Party press ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I mean the press that is controlled by tlie Communist 
Party, circulated by it, and its policies and contents of its paper are 
controlled by the Communist Party, like the People's World, North- 
west edition, which was circulated here. 

Mr. KuNziG. For example, the Daily Worker, on the east coast, and 
so forth ? 



6072 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle. The Daily "Worker and Political Affairs. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever know a Bob Camozzi? Did you ever 
know anybody by that name ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. What was his activity in the party, and identify him 
further, if you can. 

Mrs. Hartle. I remember Bob Camozzi as a section organizer of a 
North End section of tlie Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know a Marion Camozzi ? 

Mrs, Hartle. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Who was she ? 

Mrs. Hartle. She has been manager of the Frontier Book Store, 
in Seattle, from about 1943 up to the present time, as far as I know. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Was she at any time related to Robert Camozzi ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. She was his wife some time ago. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is her present name ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Kinney. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you mean Marion Camozzi Kinney ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Correct. 

Mr. KuNZiG. What present employment does Robert Camozzi have, 
if it lies within your knowledge ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was last given the impression that he was working 
for the circulation department of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. 

]Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mrs. Hartle, we were just discussing Marion 
Camozzi Kinney, and I would like to go into detail about the Com- 
munist Party book store. 

However, Mr. Chairman, I note that it is 10 : 30 and I respectfully 
request that a recess be taken at this time. 

Mr. Velde. Yes, a recess will be ordered and the committee will 
stand in recess until 10 : 45. 

(Whereupon, at 10 : 30 a. m., the hearing was recessed to reconvene 
at 10 :45 a.m.) 

(Whereupon, at 10: 45 a. m., the hearing was reconvened.) 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order, please. 

I should like to just mention this remark in passing. Today is Flag 
Day. The fact that we are holding these hearings here in Senttle 
today is only coincidental to Flag Day, but I am sure that we will all 
appreciate and show respect today to the greatest flag in the world 
and to all that it stands for. 

Now there has been some question which has come up concerning the 
identity of one of the witnesses who was mentioned by Mrs. Hartle 
and I will ask counsel to clear that matter up right now so that there 
may be no mistake in identity. 

You may proceed, counsel. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mrs. Hartle, you mentioned an Alvin Gumming this 
morning in your testimony. There is also, as I understand it, an 
Allen Cummmgs, who works for King Broadcasting Co. They are 
two different, separate persons, is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, they are two separate persons. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you did not, in any way, identify Allen Cum- 
mings of King Broadcasting Co. ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, I did not. 

Mr. Velde. May I say this in that regard ? Should it come up in 
the future during these hearings that common names such as that — 



i 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6073 

that is, I don't mean, necessarily, to say that they are common names 
but rather names that many people have — are mentioned, if the person 
who is injured thereby will call the committee counsel or a member of 
the committee staff, we certainly will do everything we can to clear 
up the matter as soon as possible. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. I don't think it would hurt to again emphasize that if 
any of those persons who are identified as Communists desire to pre- 
sent themselves, we would welcome them also. 

Mr. Velde. Certainly. That is very true. I am glad that the gen- 
tleman from Michigan made that observation. 

Mr. Jackson. Unless they want to come in and take the fifth amend- 
ment. But I think the import of the words of the gentleman from 
Michigan is that if anyone named as a member of the Communist 
Party desires to come in and deny the allegation, the committee, in line 
with past procedures, would be very happy to have such a denial. 

However, I, for one, do not feel constrained to sit here and take abuse 
from someone who wants to come in and use the committee as a sound- 
ing board without making an affirmation or a denial of the allegation. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, that is what I had in mind. 

Mr. Velde. Proceed, counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, at the recess we closed with your testimony 
concerning Marion Camozzi Kinney, connected with the Communist 
Party bookstore, whom you said you knew to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party. Would you now go into detail and tell us about the 
Communist Party bookstore, how bookstores work, and how members 
are asked to set up a bookstore ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The Communist Party bookstores, such as the Work- 
ers Book Store in Spokane and the Frontier Book Store in Seattle are 
an integral part of the Communist Party apparatus. 

The Workers Book Store in Spokane, of which I was the manager 
for about a year and a half in 1937-38, was under the complete control 
and domination of the Communist Party of Spokane. I was selected 
as manager of the bookstore by the district organizer then, Morris 
Rappaport, and the books and papers that were sold in the store and 
circulated through the Communist Party literature department were 
determined by the Communist Party and by no one else. 

The Frontier Book Store in Seattle, from the time I came to Seattle 
in 1942, until I left in 1950, was under the direct control of the district 
board and district committee of the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuxziG. Now you have already testified that at one period you 
yourself had a rather profitable little store of your own, which you 
gave up. Would you explain how and why you gave up your own store 
to take on a questionably profitable one, if it was ? Tell us about the 
Communist bookstore. 

Mrs. Hartle. I did have a bookstore of my own and I liked it very 
much. I had been able to build it up into the second largest circulat- 
ing library in Spokane and was very happy with it. However, the 
district organizer said to me, "You don't want to be a businesswoman, 
do you?" And, thinking that I wanted to be a Communist and I 
couldn't very well be a businesswoman, too, I sold my bookstore, 
against my better judgment and against my real desires. 

Mr. Frazier. Mr. Chairman. 



6074 COJVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Velde. Mr, Frazier, of Tennessee. 

Mr. Frazier. I would like to ask a question of the witness. 

Tell us, if you will, the purposes that the Communist bookstores are 
used for ? Is it for the purpose of disseminating communistic litera- 
ture? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that is the purpose of the Communist bookstore. 
The main and central purpose is for the circulation and sale of Com- 
munist Party literature and literature that the Communist Party 
wants to see circulated. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you continue with your testimony about the 
Coinmunist Party bookstore? When did Marion Kinney take over? 

Mrs. Hartle. Marion Kinney became the manager of the Frontier 
Book Store in 1943. I remember that Phil Frankfeld was district 
organizer in this district at that time and that it was under his choice 
that Marion Kinney became the manager of the Frontier Book Store; 
and she has been the manager ever since that time, up to when I left 
Seattle in 1950. 

Mr. KuNziG. And who was Phil Frankfeld, whose name you just 
mentioned a moment ago ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Phil Frankfeld was then district organizer of this 
Northwest district for the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you give us any identification other than that — 
address or anything of that nature ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Phil Frankfeld came to this district from the East, 
and then in about 1944 he was drafted into the Armed Forces; and 
after he came back out of the Armed Forces he became the district or- 
ganizer in Maryland. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, did the bookstore carry on any Com- 
munist-front activities other than what you have already stated ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; the Frontier Book Store did. It attempted to 
get certain types of literature into certain kinds of organizations. It 
would try to have literature that would appeal to labor-union people ; 
it would try to get that into their meetings or try to mail it to them ; 
and it would try to get literature, Communist literature, on the Negro 
question in one way or another and then would attempt to sell it or dis- 
tribute it or mail it to Negro people who might be interested in it, and 
in that way did carry on front activities with the literature. 

Mr. KuNziG. Speaking of this literature, who was the editor of the 
Northwest edition of the People's World ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Terry Pettus. 

Mr. KuNziG. You knew him to be a member of the Communist Party, 
did you not? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. KuNzTG. Who succeeded him ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He was succeeded, I am told, by — I cannot remember 
the name. 

Mr. KuNzio. Did you ever know a Will Parry to be a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; that was the name I am trying to think of. I 
understand that he succeeded him as editor of the People's World. 

Mr. Clardy. Maybe counsel can answer that. 

She mentioned the name of Mr. Pettus. Do you have any infor- 
mation as to whether or not he has been one of the Smith Act defend- 
ants somewhere along the way ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6075 

Mrs. Hartle. He was one of my codef enclants in the Smith Act trial 
here. 

Mr. Clardy. That was my recollection. 

Mr. KuNziG. What was his first name ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Terry, T-e-r-r-y. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know, of your own knowledge, Will Parry 
to be a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you give us further identification, if you can, about 
Will Parry? 

Mrs. Hartle. Will Parry was a reporter on the People's World, 
Northwest edition, during the period oefore I left Seattle. He was 
a member of a branch in the Rainier Valley area while I was regional 
organizer of south King County. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever know a Jean Danielson, now known as 
Jean Danielson Schuddakopf ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know her to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you give us any further identification of this 
woman ? 

Mrs. Hartle. She was a member of the Communist Party in the 
north King region or area of the Communist Party. I have met with 
her in regard to Communist work among women. 

Mr. KuNZiG. What period of time was that, Mrs. Hartle ? 

Mrs. Hartle. In about the middle 1940's. I do not remember the 
specific year, but I met with her several times in about 1946-47. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know her definitely to be a member, at that 
time at least, of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now did you ever know anyone by the name of Eugene 
Y. Dennett? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Mr. Dennett to be active in the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you give us any further testimony that you can 
about Eugene V. Dennett ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I had seen Eugene V. Dennett in large district com- 
mittee meetings in the late 1930's and I knew him then as a member 
of the district committee. I knew him as a member of the Communist 
Party after I came to Seattle and have been in functionaries' meetings 
of this area with him. One of the positions that I remember him m 
was as chairman of the Steel Club of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Velde. May I interrupt, counsel, to ask a question here regard- 
ing Mrs. Schuddakopf ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

Mr. Velde. How did you know that she was a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? Did you happen to sit in at closed meetings with her ? 

Mrs. Hartle. She discussed women's commission work of the Com- 
munist Party with me on the basis of she and I both being members 
of the Communist Party. We discussed nothing else but the Com- 
munist Party. 



6076 COIMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Velde. From that knowledge then you would say definitely that 
she was a member ; is that correct ? 

]\Irs. Hartle. And from other information as well. I knew her 
well to be a member of the Communist Party — from meetings, func- 
tionaries' meetings, from seeing her name on registration lists. 

]\Ir. Velde. Then you did attend functionaries' meetings, which 
would be closed Communist Party meetings, with her ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is right ; yes. 

Mr. Velde. In any of these identifications, Mr. Counsel, I think it 
might be wise to find out the source of the knowledge JSIrs. Hartle has 
concerning their Communist Party membership, if it is possible. 

Mr. KuNziG. Very well. 

Now, Mrs. Hartle, we were talking about Eugene V. Dennett, and 
I believe he is going to tie up with the subject of Trotskyism. 

Would you explain to the committee what Trotskyism is and give 
us the full benefit of your knowledge on Trotskyism and on the So- 
cialist Workers Party, tying it in, if you can, with Eugene V. Dennett ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. Stalin has defined Trotskyism as the theoretical 
vanguard of the counterrevolution, and I was taught this definition in 
1937 at a 6-week fulltime training school of the Communist Party 
that I attended here in Seattle, although I was in Spokane at that time. 
I came here as a student to go to this 6-week school in 1937. 

Upon first joining the Communist Party, I was informed by the 
Spokane section leadership, by J. H. Van Orman, section organizer, 
and others, that the Trotskyites, that is, the Socialists Workers' Party 
and its members, were about the worst enemy of the Communist Party, 
with the possible exception of law-enforcement authorities ; and this 
was told to me in a very intense fashion. I was told that Communists 
do not speak with Trotskyites, they do not argue with them, they do 
not read their literature; and I was quite puzzled by that at the time, 
as I know were other new members. I remember discussing it with 
other new members at the time — as to why there was such an intense 
hatred of the Trotskyites and why there was such a taboo against 
Trotskyism, without any seemingly convincing arguments to us then 
as new members. 

However, through constant repetition by the district leaders and 
through reading different kinds of material Avhich did seem to have 
some arguments, I finally accepted the position that the Trotskyites 
and Trotskyism are supreme enemies of the Communist Party. It 
did take quite a lot of study and quite a lot of convincing for me to 
arrive at that kind of Communist understanding. 

After awhile, I was able to develop some arguments on this subject 
from this material, and the main arguments that I used in explaining 
tlie Socialist Workers' Party were that the Socialist Workers" Party or 
Trotskyites attacked the Communist Party from the left — the left- 
wing side of politics, if you please. I also taught that the Trotskyites 
confused the workers and others who were almost ready for the Com- 
munist Party; and I also taught tliat through the sectariat, tlie nar- 
row presentation of Marxism and Leninism — not Stalinism — that the 
Trotskyites put the party in a bad light, generally. 

These were some of the arguments that I finally learned and used 
in trying to convince people in the Communist Party that Trotskyism 
was very bad. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire, sir ? 



i 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6077 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. . . 

Mr Clardy. Witness, actually the only difference, however, is m 
the personality of Trotsky and Stalin, isn't it? In other words, tliey 
were both Communists; they were both advocating and teaching and 
fighting for communism but each one wanted to be the big shot— the 
top dog, in other words ? Is that not true ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; that is true. Material that I have seen and 
what I have been told in the Communist Party is tliat the Trotsky ites 
support Lenin and Marx and Engels but not Stalin. The Socialist 
Workers' Party fights Stalin. 

I heard one definition one time of the Trotskyites by a leading 
Communist. He said, "When you find a person that is strong for 
socialism and hates Soviet Russia, you have probably got a Trotsky ite. 

Mr. Clardy. Did the name of Jay Lovestone ever come into the dis- 
cussions in connection with that ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Not a great deal. As far as I can remember. Love- 
stone had become somewhat past history. I have studied about liim 
in school, in a Communist school, as being a person who thought that 
some kind of a new era had arrived and that maybe all tins chiss 
struggle and international conflict would no longer be necessary. But 
not a great deal was said about Lovestone at the time that I was in 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Clardy. There is no question about the fact that he had been 
an active practicing Communist but that he was probably of the third 
division, the other two already having been mentioned, is that not the 
fact? 

Mrs. Hartle. Lovestone, as I remember learning about him from 
the Communist Party, was a revisionist rather than a leftist or a 
Trotskyite. 

Mr. Clardy. Basically, however, he had been a member of the Com- 
munist Party and, basically, he was a Communist, was he not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; he was a member of the Communist Party at 
one time. 

Mrs. Clardy. Thank you. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you recall today, Mrs. Hartle, the names of any 
Communist Party members whom you knew were expelled from the 
Communist Party for Trotskyism or at least suspicions of Trotskyism ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; I believe that I can remember several of those 
names. One of them was Eugene Dennett. 

Mr. KuNziG. That is the man that you have already mentioned here, 
is it not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. Another is Bill Long. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you knew him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. As the chairman has previously requested, can you 
give us a little further identification as to how you knew him to be 
a member of the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew him to be a member of the Communist Party 
through attending functionaries' meetings of the Seattle area with 
him and through seeing him at other Communist meetings. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know what his work was ? 

48069— 54— pt. 2 5 



6078 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, as part of the foundation of material 
for identification, I suggest that if the witness knows when these Com- 
munists were expelled from the party and can give approximately the 
year that would be very helpful information. 
Mr. Velde. Yes. 

Mrs. Hartle. He was expelled about 1947. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know what his work was or his employment? 
Mrs. Hartle. He was probably employed on the waterfront. I be- 
lieve he was employed on the waterfront ; I am not certain. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are there any other names that you can recall who 
were Communist Party members and expelled for Trotskyism? 

Mrs. Hartle. I might add, on him, that he lived in the Rainier 
Valley area of town — if that will help. 

Mr. KuNziG. This is Bill Long that you are talking about now, is 
that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Bill Long, yes — at that time. 
Mr. KuNziG. Now are there any others ? 
Mrs. Hartle. Another is Ruth Porter. 

Mr. KuNziG. Ruth Porter? Can you give us, as you have on the 
others, any further identification ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Ruth Porter I had met with in functionaries' meet- 
ings of King County. I have had her in classes taught by me, Com- 
munist Party classes taught by me, and have discussed the Commu- 
nist Party with her personally a number of times. I have known her 
well as a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. When was she expelled, if you can recall ? 
Mrs. Hartle. In about 1947. 
Mr. KuNZiG. Are there any others ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Another is Foster Williams. Foster Williams I re- 
member from functionaries' meeting of the King County Communist 
Party, and I remember him as a student in one of my classes held 
in a room at the rear of the Frontier Book Store, where he disagreed 
with me on some Communist theory. He was expelled about 1948 from 
the Communist Party for Trotskyite associations. He is a young 
Negro man. I do not know what his work was. 
Mr. KuNziG. Thank you. Are there any others, Mrs. Hartle? 
Mrs. Hartle. Another person who was expelled for Trotskyite 
associations was Irene Hull. I have known her as working with me 
on women's commission work of the Communist Party, being on a 
women's commission with me in the Communist Party. She was 
expelled also about 1947 because she was suspected strongly of being 
associated with Trotskyites. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you have any address or employment for this 
person ? 

Mrs. Hartle. She lived in the central King area, which is not the 
north or the south but tlie center from the waterfront down to Lake 
Washington. She lived in the Madison area. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are there any other Communist Party members who 
were expelled for Trotskism whose names you recall ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There are two others that I recall who were either 
expelled or dropped. One of those was Jesse Erickson, who was a 
member of the Communist Party in the West Seattle area. He is a 
Negro. He was an industrial worker and he was expelled shortly 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC! NORTHWEST AREA 6079 

after joining upon suspicions of being associated with the Trotsky ites, 
about 1947, too. 

Mr, Jackson. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question of the witness ? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Mrs. Hartle, you have, with reference to the last 
two identifications that you have given, used the phrase "because they 
associated with certain individuals." Does that imply that the Com- 
munist Party actually would expel an individual because of his 
associations ? 

Mrs. Hartle. They certainly would in the case of Trotskyites, and 
have. 

Mr. Jackson. Isn't that quite inconsistent with the position they 
take, with reference to other individuals, some of whom have ap- 
peared before the committee, where the scream has gone up to high 
heaven that they were being maligned because of their associations? 

Mrs. Hartle. Is it inconsistent?^ 

Mr. Jackson. Isn't it somewhat inconsistent? 

Mrs. Hartle. It certainly is. I think it is extremely inconsistent. 

Mr. Jackson. As a matter of fact, it is only necessary to see a 
Communist conversing with someone outside the pale in order to have 
guilt by association brought very actively to the fore in the Com- 
munist Party, isn't that so ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is called vigilance. 

Mr. Jackson. But when the FBI or this committee does it, it's 
guilt by association ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Presumably. It is called vigilance in the Commu- 
nist Party. 

Mr. Jackson. We call it vigilance on this committee, too. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire of the witness? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr, Scherer. Tell us how these people were expelled. What was 
the procedure followed ? Was there a hearing ? If so, what kind of 
a hearing was it ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There is a procedure for expulsion in the Communist 
Party. However, if you want the exact picture of what happened, 
it usually has to be gone at person by person. The procedure is to 
tile charges and then to have a trial, and then to have a decision at 
the end of the trial, and then to inform the defendant, if you please, 
what the decision was. But there are many cases in the Communist 
Party when the member is so guilty that he is expelled forthwith, 
v;ithout a trial. 

Mr. Scherer. Who determines whether he is guilty, as you say? 

Mrs. Hartle. This is so well understood in the Communist Party 
that there will be no objections from anyone; it is completely 
understood. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you mean that he is expelled without a hearing 
when somebody in the hierarchy decides that there is sufficient 
evidence ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Apparently so. If a member of the Communist 
Party were to appear before this committee and make statements that 
did not suit the Communist Party, he would be expelled forthwith, 
without a trial. 

Mr. Jackson. Will the gentleman yield ? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. 



6080 coAonjNiST activities in the pacific northwest area 

Mr. Jackson. Is the accused or the defendant, as you called him, 
represented by counsel durin^^ these expulsion proceedings? 

Mrs. Hartle. No. 

INIr. Jackson. Is he permitted the right of cross-examination ? 

Mrs. Harile. Tliere is some discussion. It is usually for the pur- 
pose of bringing out what else is wrong with him. 

Mr. Jackson. In other words, he is permitted none of the privileges 
about which the Communist Party rants and raves when courts and 
congressional committees attempt to investigate the area of subversive 
activity? 

Mrs. Hartle. None. 

Mr. ScHERER. You said that the Communist Party does have a 
procedure for expelling a person, did you not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, there is a procedure. 

Mr. ScHERER. But in some instances, as I understand your testi- 
mony, they completely ignore the procedure when the top brass feel 
that it isn't necessary? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, it has been ignored. I know of instances where 
it has been ignored. 

Mr. Scherer. And no hearing is granted ? 

JSIrs. Hartle. No. And to a Communist it would be inconceivable 
to give a person a hearing after he had testified wrongly at a Canwell 
committee hearing; it would be inconceivable to grant him a trial — 
it is just understood that he has gone over to the enemy and there is 
no use wasting time with a trial — just expel him. 

Mr. Clardy. May I inquire, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. Would the word or phrase "kangaroo court" pretty 
well describe the process even wlien they do have a trial ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Most of the time that is the case. 

Mr. Clardy. Do they ever permit the Communist on trial before 
them to employ the fifth amendment ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No. 

Mr. Clardy. Or any other part of the Constitution of this country ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No. 

Mr. Clardy. They demand and compel and get answers to eyery 
question that they put to him, do they not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. And if he refuses, what happens? Or does he ever 
refuse ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He may refuse, but he is then expelled if he refuses. 

Mr. Clardy. In other words, summary judgment is meted out the 
moment that he attempts to invoke any of the rights they prate about 
so much when they come before us ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct. Refusal to come to a trial meeting 
will result in expulsion. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, this might be of interest to the com- 
mittee and to the record in this testimony this morning. We have 
here a copy of the charges brought by the Communist Party, from a 
confidential informant to this committee, against Eugene Dennett, 
who was mentioned a few minutes earlier, and who has been sub- 
penaed to appear before this committee. I would like to pass this over 
to the witness and ask her if this isn't a typical sample of charges 
brought by the Communist Party in this type of instance against a 
Trotskyite ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6081 

(Document is handed to the witness for examination.) 

Mr. Velde. While the witness is looking over this particular docu- 
ment, I would like to make a very brief statement. 

I have in my hand a leaflet or what is called a throwaway, which, I 
understand, is being circulated on the waterfront at the present time. 
It is a very vicious item, personally attacking me and attacking the 
committee generally for appearing here in Seattle today. 

I would like to read just one statement that is made in this leaflet: 

Now the reason I am putting out this leaflet is to ask you guys I work with to 
help me tight these rats. 

meaning the Un-American Activities Committee. 

If you are a member of the local, take the floor and urge the local to carry out 
the plan to call stop-work meetings while the Velde committee is here fouling 
up the air. 

I would like to make this statement for the record and for the 

§eneral public. The Committee on Un-American Activities is here in 
eattle to investigate to determine whether or not there has been and 
presently is infiltration by the Communist Party or any otlier sub- 
versive organization into the various phases of our American life. We 
certainly do not want to interfere in any way with the legitimate union 
organizations; and, above all — and I am sure that the members vaIU 
agree with me — we would very much regret to see a stop-work or strike 
called here in the great city of Seattle. 

I want to assure you good members of this particular union that we 
are only interested in subversive activities that might destroy our 
form of government. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, don't you think it would be well to 
let the public here know that that is just a typical example of what we 
meet wherever we go in the conduct of the business of this committee ? 

Mr. Velde. Yes, the chairman certainly concurs with the gentleman 
from Michigan on that. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. You did not read the name of the person who signed 
that sheet to which you referred. 

(At this point Mr. Velde conferred with Mr. Jackson and then 
with Mr. Doyle. ) 

Mr. Doyle. I see. And you are informing me that you did not read 
it because that person has not yet been identified in these hearings as 
a member of the Communist Party. That of course is in line with our 
policy. 

However, I wish to state, as a member of the committee, that I con- 
sider it a compliment to be included in the designation of a "rat"' by 
the person who signs that sheet. It is all right with me if there is any 
American citizen who wants to call me a rat ; it shows the degradation 
to which some Americans can go in support of the Communist 
philosophy. 

I would like to meet the gentleman. 

Mr. Clardy. Wliy do you call him a gentleman ? 

Mr. Doyle. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. 

But that was on the Seattle waterfront, was it ? 

Mr. Velde. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Now, Mr. Chairman, in view of your statement about 
this committee, I don't think we have specified yet in our record today, 



6082 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

for those who may see us or hear us, that this House Un-American 
Activities Committee was established under Public Law 601 way back 
in the 79th Congress, back in 1945, and that this subcommittee here 
today is not a special committee of Congress; it is one of the major 
committees of the United States Congress. It is an established com- 
mittee of the House of Representatives. It is neither a stepchild nor 
any part of the United States Senate; it is a part of the House of 
Representatives. 

I just felt that I ought to make that clear, because the Congress of 
course consists of the House and the Senate. This committee here 
today is a committee of the House. We have no connection with any 
other branch of the United States Congress. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. May I ask Mr, Doyle if it isn't a fact that actually this 
committee is a continuation of the old Dies committee that was organ- 
ized in 1938, so that actually we have had a continual 15-year experi- 
ence in dealing with these kind of people? 

Mr. Doyle. I don't think any of us were on the old Dies committee. 

Mr. Cl.\rdy. No. 

Mr. Doyle. I am sure that none of us were, and this committee was 
set up in 1945. 

Mr. Clardy. The point I am making, Mr. Doyle, is this : That there 
has been a separate House committee for 15 years dealing with this 
problem. It has gone by this name since 1945 and other names prior 
to tliat. 

Mr. Doyle. Yes, but this is the first House of Representatives Un- 
American Activities Committee which has ever had a printed, desig- 
nated set of rules and it is the first House Un-American Activities 
Committee that has ever existed where a person always has a right to 
counsel before the committee. I wish to distinguish the functions of 
this committee since I have been on it, at least, and you other gentle- 
men, as acting differently from most congressional committees in the 
field of investigation. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde, Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. During this interim I have taken the opportunity to 
read this document, and whether or not the gentleman has been iden- 
tified previously, I personally have no hesitation in reading his name. 

I might say that the order of his contempt is very low and much 
better has been done elsewhere. 

His name appears to be Mel Kirkwood, and he identifies himself 
as a poolie in one of the unions. 

I think tlie record should show positively that across the country, 
during the hearings which this committee has conducted heretofore, 
we have had splendid help and assistance and support from local un- 
ions in almost every field of industrial activity. That support has 
been very much appreciated by all of us, I am sure, and has gone a 
long way toward overcoming the sort of low-order contempt which is 
demonstrated by Mr, Kirkwood in his highly illiterate document. 

I see no reason why his name should not be made known, not only to 
the members of his own union, but to everyone who may be within 
sound of the activities of this committee today. And so there is no mis- 
take about it — the name is Mel Kirkwood, M-e-1 K-i-r-k-w-o-o-d, and 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6083" 

his illiterate diatribe sounds like an editorial from the Communist 
Daily Worker. 

Mr. Velde. I might say to the gentleman from California that Mr. 
Kirkwood has been subpenaed to appear before this committee, and 
we hope to clarify the issue further at that time. 

Mr. Jackson. The gentleman from California is delighted to hear it. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. There is one point that you did not make in connec- 
tion with it, which I think the public ought to know. He is directing 
people who think like he does — and now I am quoting from the docu- 
ment, "Jam the place. Let these phony birds know the workers in this 
town don't like them." In other words, he is telling them to take over 
tlie hearing and do just as they have tried to do in a great many other 
places. 

Mr. KuNziG. I think the record should also show, Mr. Chairman, 
that Mr. Kirkwood was subpenaed long before the issuance of this 
document that has been discussed and he will have an opportunity to 
answer questions as to his own activities. 

Mr. Clardy. It is obvious that that is why he put out this diatribe. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. The chair recognizes the gentleman from California, 
Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I am sure that as long as we are discussing this yellow 
sheet — because it is yellow, in color — very appropriately — that it 
should be noted that he signed this personally, but he is evidently pre- 
suming to talk from some unit of organized labor, and I think it appro- 
priate, Mr. Chairman, for us to say that we presume that it was writ- 
ten and circulated without the authority of his union. I am always 
supported by organized labor in my campaigns for reelection — that is, 
by the non-Communist group of both the A. F. of L. and the CIO — I 
am proud of it, but I think we ought to call upon the union and if 
they have any connection with this yellow sheet or in any way author- 
ized it directly or indirectly, or if it is within their knowledge, that 
the union itself ought to get busy and take some action on this sort 
of thing. 

Mr. Velde. The Chair certainly concurs with the gentleman from 
California. However, I think we have too many witnesses called now. 
But if any member of this particular union desires to come forward 
aiid confer with our counsel, any information that he may have rela- 
tive to the origin of this particular pamphlet will be appreciated by 
the commitee. 

Now may we proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. KuNZTO. Yes, Mr. Chairman. 

Mrs. Hartle, if you will just hold up discussion of this document that 
I have shown you that had to do with Eugene V. Dennett for a moment, 
I think we more appropriately at this moment might ask this question. 

Did you ever know Melvin W. Kirkwood to be a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you tell us about Mr. Kirkwood's activities? 
This is the same Mr. Kirkwood that we have just been discussing for 
the last 10 minutes. 



6084 COMRIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew him as a member of the Communist Party in 
the North Kiiif? County region of the Communist Party. I have 
attended King County Communist Party functionaries' meetings with 
him a number of times in this 3- or 4-year period before I left Seattle 
in 1950. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did he have any connection with the Pacific North- 
west Labor School ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I believe he was one of the sponsors of the Pacific 
Northwest Labor School. 

Mr. KuNziG. And of your own personal knowledge you knew him 
to be a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman. 

]\Ir. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Then Mr. Kirkwood's assessment of the work of the 
committee can hardly be termed objective in light of what the witness 
has had to say. 

Mr. Velde. The Chair certainly concurs in that observation. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, may I cite for the record that the 
Pacific Northwest Labor School was cited as a Communist group by 
Attorney General Howard McGrath in 1950 ? 

Mr. Velde. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you get into some description of that school a 
little later on ? 

Mr, KuNziG. Yes ; we intend to go into that in detail. I just wanted 
to get the identification of Mr. Kirkwood at this moment. 

Now to come back, Mrs. Hartle, to the document you were examining 
a few moments ago, the charges against Eugene V. Dennett, have you 
ever seen these charges before ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I have read them before. 

Mr. KuNziG. Could you identify them and testify about them to this 
committee at this time? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I could. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you continue, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That document that I just read was written and cir- 
culated by the Communist Party in relation to Eugene Dennett's 
expulsion from the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I should like to offer this document 
into evidence as Barbara Hartle exhibit No. 1.^ 

Mr. Velde. Without objection, it will be received and filed for the 
information of the committee. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, I should like to ask you to continue and 
finish the discussion and identifications you were giving. You men- 
tioned that you knew of two others and you mentioned Jesse Erickson. 
Would you continue, please, with the others? 

Mrs. Hartle. Another short-time member of the Communist Party 
who was dropped because of suspicions of Trotskyite associations was 
Odoll Lee. 

Mr, KuNzio. Would you identify Odell Lee further ? 

Mrs. Hartle, He was a Negro member of the Conmiunist Party for 
a short time and lived in West Seattle. 

1 Retained In committee files. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6085 

Mr. KuNziG. Now are there any other names of any other people 
that you knew to be members of the Communist Party, who were then 
expelled for Trotskyism ? 

Mrs. Hartle. One more is Eleanor Snyder. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you give us her residence and her employment? 

Mrs. Hartle. She was living either in or very close to Yesler Ter- 
race housing project, in what is called the 35th district section of the 
Communist Party. She was expelled in about 1947 or early 1948. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now is there any example in recent years of what is 
called "Trotskyism" ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. I have heard Titoism explained as the Trotsky- 
ism of the present period. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know a Jim Taylor to be a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Does he fit into this category we are discussing? 

Mrs. Hartle. No ; he does not. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, since I have mentioned his name, could you give 
us further identification and tell us perhaps where he lives or where 
he is employed ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. Jim Taylor — James Taylor was a member of 
the Communist Party in the 37th district. He was a member who 
was active in the youth work of the Communist Party for about a 
year. He was dropped by the Communist Party when it seemed that 
he was no longer interested in its activities. 

We was a witness in the Smith Act trial against the defendants. 

Mr. KuNziG. Thank you. Now could you explain in a little further 
detail just what the Socialist Workers' Party is ? 

Mrs, Hartle. Well, the Socialist Workers' Party, from a Com- 
munist explanation, are the Trotskyites; they are always called the 
Trotskyites in the Communist Party. The}^ are an organization. 
How they are organized, I don't know, but according to the Com- 
munist Party they are the vanguard, theoretical vanguard, that at- 
tacks the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. May I state for the record, Mr. Chairman, that the 
Socialist Workers' Party has been cited as a subversive and Commu- 
nist organization, which seeks to alter the form of government of the 
United States by unconstitutional means, by Attorney General Tom 
Clark in 1947 and 1948, and by this committee, the Congressional 
Committee on Un-American Activities in 1948. 

I have also a document here, Mr. Chairman, which I should like 
to introduce into the record, which has come to us officially from the 
Government here in Washington. It is a certification from the De- 
partment of State, which certifies that the attached is a true and 
correct copy of the proceedings of the nominating convention held 
by the Socialist Workers' Party on September 9, 1952, in Seattle, and 
it is signed by Earl Coe, Secretary of State. It shows in the list of 
names on page 11 the name Eugene V. Dennett, who has been testified 
about here this morning. 

I offer this as Barbara Hartle exhibit No. 2} 

Mr. Velde. Without objection, it will be received and filed for the 
information of the committee. 
Proceed, counsel. 

1 Retained In committee files. 
480G9— 54— pt. 2 6 



6086 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mrs. Hartle, I should like to turn to the subject 
of the Civil Eights Congress and its connection, if any, with the Com- 
munist Party. I would like to ask you questions about that from your 
own personal knowledge as a former member of the Communist Party 
and one of the top members in this district. 

I want to make it very clear for the record, Mr. Chairman, so that 
there can be no confusion, that in referring to the Civil Eights Con- 
gress we are not referring in any way of course to the American Civil 
Liberties Union. It is a separate organization and has nothing to do 
with the Civil Eights Congress. 

Mr. Clardy. It may be different and distinct, but I wouldn't go 
any further than that, if I were you, in wliat you say. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mrs. Hartle, would you tell us what you know 
about the Civil Eights Congress ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The Civil Eights Congress in this area was started 
and controlled by the Communist Party, and by "this area"' I mean 
Washington State. The way this came about was that sometime in the 
late 194:0's, about 1946-47, when it began to be clear to the Communist 
Party that their policies would be in head-on clash with those of our 
country, some thought began to be given to having this civil-rights 
defense. And then of course after the arrest of the 12 national leaders 
of the Communist Party in the first Smith Act case, William Z. Foster 
made the statement that the Communist Party cannot carry on its 
own defense within itself; there has to be a separate organization; 
and Henry Huff reported this to the district board when he came back 
from a trip to national headquarters in New York City, and he pointed 
out that the Civil Eights Congress had to be organized in order to 
carry on this defense work of the Communist Party. He at that time 
suggested that John Daschbach become the organizer and the head of 
the Civil Eights Congress, and this was carried out and put through, 
and John Daschbach did assume that job and organized the Civil 
Eights Congress in this area, with some organization in places like 
Tacoma, Spokane, and Everett. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you been able to locate your notes on this? 

Mrs. Hartle. I don't believe I have any notes on that, but I believe 
I am fairly familiar with it. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did the Civil Eights Congress have any activity in 
the Negro field ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; the Civil Eights Congress, while its main and 
central purpose was the defense of Communist Party leaders in cases, 
did have a program of so-called Negro-rights work, and it supported 
some national cases tliat the Conmiunist Party was bringing forward 
in its press and in its directives. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is there any furtlier information that you can think 
of and can give us concerning the Civil Eights Congress ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Tlie Civil Eights Congress also took up any kind of 
civil-rights cases that miglit draw some sui:)port to the connnittee in 
order to draw contacts into committee membership or to get financial 
support or get interest or influence of people ; and the reason for taking 
up these other matters from time to time, like Negro rights or pris- 
oners' relief, was to get a wider group of people into the circle of the 
Civil Eights Congress, with the aim then that eventually these people 
could be brought to a deeper understanding and would see the neces- 
sity of supporting the civil rights of Communists. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6087 

Mr. KuNziG. Now we discussed a brief time a<zo the Xorthwest 
Labor School. Could you give us your knowledge of that group, that 
school, and just what connection it had with the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. The Pacific Northwest Labor School was a 
Communist- front project in the field of education, and its basic pur- 
pose was to spread Marxist-Leninist education but to do it in such a 
way as to attract non-Communists, in addition to its use as being a 
school for Communist Party members. It had a double purpose : to 
educate the party membership and to draw^ as many non-Communists 
into classes as possible at the same time. 

It was not considered a party leadership training school; it was 
more for the membership. And, in order to attract a broader segment 
of persons into the school, a number of courses were included that were 
not in Marxism-Leninism, but they were included in order to appeal 
to people from labor unions, professional fields, and others. For 
example, parliamentary law would be a subject that was intended for 
the purpose of drawing people into the school and drawing them 
closer to it with no idea on their part that they were getting into a 
Communist school. An air of respectability was also created in this 
way, so that people would feel that if they enrolled in this school they 
had a perfect right to do so and there was nothing wrong with being 
in it. The hope, of course, w^as that if non-Communists enrolled this 
way, after awhile they would learn more about it and would become 
convinced to enroll in courses on Marxism-Leninism. 

The objective of the school was to gain Communist influence over 
non-Communists, recruit as many people as possible out of this school 
into the Communist party, and special attention was paid to members 
of organized labor through this school. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have a document marked "Barbara Hartle Exhibit 
No. 3" for identification, Mr. Chairman. 

It purports to be a photostatic copy, Mrs. Hartle, of perhaps a 
typical announcement folder or sheet concerning this school. Could 
you tell us about it and identify it, if you can ? 

The front page of the booklet, you will see, has been opened up 
there to be photostated. 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I see that it has been opened. 

Yes, I recognize this. I recognize the address, as well as the courses 
that are listed in here. 

Mr. KuNziG. What would you say that document is ? 

Mrs. Hartle. It is what you call a school prospectus; it lists the 
courses and the teachers and the schedule, and it is the sort of thing 
that the school puts out in order to enroll students in the school. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I offer this document, Barbara Hartle 
Exhibit No, 3, for identification into evidence as Barbara Hartle Ex- 
hibit No. 3.1 

Mr. Velde. Without objection, it will be received and filed for the 
information of the committee. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. The witness has stated that in this prospectus or 
school catalog the courses are listed, as well as those who instruct in 
the courses. Might it not be well at this time to let the witness re- 

^ Retained in committee files. 



6088 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

examine the document for the purpose of identifying those who are 
listed as instructors who are known to her to have been members of 
the Communist Party — unless there is objection from counsel and he 
intends to take that up in due course. 

Mr. KuNziG. We intend, Mr. Jackson, to take that up in a few 
moments. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. I will withdraw the request. 

Mr. Velde. Proceed. 

Mr. KuNziG. At this moment, Mr. Chairman, I have in my ha? id a 
copy of the New World of Thursday, March 28, 1946, which talks 
about the labor school class, and so forth and so on. I would like to 
hand this document marked "Barbara Hartle Exhibit No. 4" for iden- 
tification to the witness and ask if this is a typical announcement con- 
cerning the Northwest Labor School and if she could explain why this 
particular newspaper is interested in this particular school. It is a 
photostatic copy.^ 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. This is an advertisement that was printed in the 
New World. It was for the purpose of advertising the labor school. 
The tie of interest between these two organizations is the Communist 
Party and the Communist domination of both of them. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mr, Chairman, I am at the point now of asking the 
witness to go into the names of the people whom she knew to be Com- 
munist Party members, who were connected with and controlled and 
taught at the Pacific Northwest Labor School. I note that it is 10 
minutes to 12 and suggest that perhaps you may wish to put this over 
until the afternoon session. 

Mr. Velde. Yes. If there is no objection from the members of the 
committee, I think this would be a proper breaking off place. 

The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 11 :50 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 2 p. m. ) 2 

1 Retained in committee files. 

2 Testimony heard in tliis afternoon session is printed in pt. 4 of this series. 



i 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NOETHWEST AEEA—Part 2 (SEATTLE) 

(Testimony of Barbara Hartle) 



TUESDAY, JUNE 15, 1954 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Seattle^ Wash. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to recess, 
at 9 : 08 a. m., in room 402, County-City Building, Seattle, Wash., Hon. 
Harold H. Velde (chairman), presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde, 
Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, Clyde Doyle, and 
James B. Frazier, Jr. 

Staff members present : Robert L. Kunzig, counsel ; Frank S. Taven- 
ner, Jr., counsel ; William A. Wheeler, staff investigator ; and Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., clerk. 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order, please. 

Before commencing this morning's session, I would like to say that 
we have word that there might be some mistake in identity of George 
Starkovich, who was identified by Mrs. Hartle yesterday and I want 
to announce that this matter will be cleared up later today or possibly 
tomorrow, as the George Starkovich whom Barbara Hartle referred 
to has been subpenaed and will be here to testify, so that there will 
be no possible mistake in his identity. 

Now will you proceed, counsel? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, Mr. Chairman. 

PURTHER TESTIMONY OF BARBARA HARTLE, ACCOMPANIED BY 
SPECIAL UNITED STATES DEPUTY MARSHAL DOROTHEA HALL 

Mr. Kunzig. Mrs. Hartle, I want to ask you just one question about 
Starkovich, who was mentioned a few moments ago prior to your com- 
ing into the room. 

So far as you can recall, what is the age of the Starkovich whom you 
testified about yesterday? 

Mrs. Hartle. He would be about 25 years old now. 

Mr. Kunzig. A young man? 

Mrs. Hartle. A young man, yes. 

Mr. Kunzig. Thank you very much. 

6089 



6090 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Now when we broke off your testimony yesterday, we were discuss- 
ing the Pacific Northwest Labor School. That is the correct name 
of it; is that right? 

Mrs. EUrtle, Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did it ever go under any other name, to your knowl- 
edge ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Before that, there was the Seattle Labor School, and 
my understanding is that the Pacific Northwest Labor School was 
another name for it, with the idea of spreading it more around the 
State. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see. 

Now this morning I would like to go into the subject of people whom 
you knew to be members of the Communist Party and, remember, as 
we said yesterday, we are very definite on the point that we are only 
interested in those whom you know of your own personal knowledge 
to be members of the Communist Party. 

Could you tell us the names of those people with whom j^ou were 
associated who were active in the Pacific Northwest Labor School ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Some of the people that were active in that, either 
as sponsors or in some other capacity were Pat Ryan — he was a mem- 
ber of an industrial branch of some kind and lived in the Holly Park 
housing project area. He was a member of the Holly Park Club for 
some time, and I knew him as a member there. 

Then there was his wife, Jan Ryan. 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you spell that name ? 

Mrs. Hartle. J-a-n R-y-a-n. She was branch secretary of the Holly 
Park branch and also lived in that area. 

Martha Swanson, who was chairman of the Rainier Vista branch 
of the Communist Party for a time and lived in the Rainier Vista 
housing project. 

Elsie Jarvis, who was a member of the Queen Anne branch in 
Seattle sometime ago and lived in the Queen Anne area. 

Mr. KuNziG. What period of time, roughly, are you discussing here 
this morning as you give us these names ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The names that I have given to you now will go at 
least through the middle 1940's, but with Elsie Jarvis it would be 
earlier and up to the middle 1940's. 

Mr. KuNziG. Try to give us the dates, if you can. 

Mrs. Hartle. Jean Hatten. I knew her in about the middle 1940's 
as Communist Party member in connection with women's work and 
knew her one time as being a member of the waterfront section of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you give us any identification with regard to 
address or work or anything else ? 

Mrs. Hartle. She was a secretarial worker of some description, but 
further than that I am not able to describe her. 

Winnie Sutton, who later was married and became Winnie Thomp- 
son. She was a member in the waterfront section and, as far as I know, 
was still a member when I left Seattle in 1950, I had known her in 
the late 1940's as a member. She was also a secretarial worker and, as 
I remember, was employed in a secretarial capacity by one of the 
waterfront unions. 

Laura Wilkins was a member and dues secretary of the waterfront 
section of the Communist Party and lived in the central King County- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6091 

central Seattle area. She was a young Negro woman and a leader on 
the waterfront. 

Ann Ryan, later Ann Carlsen, lived in the central King County 
area, was a member of the Communist Party in a branch in that area. 
I knew her as a member in the late 1940's. Also Laura Wilkins was 
a member in the late 1940's. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now these people of course that we are discussing here 
you also knew in connection with the Pacific Northwest Labor School, 
is that right ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, all of them. All of them were connected in one 
way or another with the Pacific Northwest Labor School. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now without going into a lengthy discussion, could 
you tell us in what way they might have been identified with the school, 
that is, the different types of work or positions with the school that 
they could have had ? 

Mrs. Hartle, They could have been sponsoi-s of the school; they 
could have been teachers ; they could have been connected with one of 
the classes or activities of the school. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see. Go ahead, if you will, please. 

Mrs. Hartle. Harry Fugl — I knew him as a member of the Com- 
munist Party in the early 1940's. He was a member and officer of the 
Building Service Employees Union and lived in the north Seattle 
area. 

Ted Astley. I knew him as a member in the north King County 
Communist Party and knew him as a former teacher at the University 
of Washington — a teacher or an assistant teacher of some kind. 

John Davis — I knew him as a member in Spokane in the late 1930's 
and during tlie period that I liad been in Seattle from 1942 to 1950. 
I knew him as a member of the Renton Highlands branch of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Fair Taylor. I knew her as a member of the district women's com- 
mission and worked with her in that capacity. I have known her as 
being employed by the Progressive Party for a time. I believe she 
lived in the west Seattle area. 

Jean Danielson, who has already been mentioned. 

Mr. KuNziG. That was the Jean Danielson Schuddakopf whom you 
mentioned yesterday, was it not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know this Fair Taylor by any other name, 
her married name ? Does the name Egroth sound familiar to you ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, she later married and her name when I last knew 
her as a Communist Party member was Egroth. 

Mr. KuNziG. That is Fair Taylor Egroth ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Ruth Bitterman was an officer of the North King region of the 
Communist Party and lived in north Seattle. 

Irene Hull has already been mentioned before. 

Phyl (iillette 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you spell his first name? 

Mrs. Hartle. P-h-y-1. I was told that he had run on a Communist 
Party ticket in the southwest Washington area some time in the 1930's. 
I knew him as a member in the south Seattle area in the early 1940's 
and in about middle 1940's. 



6092 COMIVIUXIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Now your knowledge of him as a member of the Com- 
munist Party, I take it, was not what you were told but what you know 
of your own personal knowledge, is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. What I know of my own personal association. 

Mr. Velde. And, Mrs. Hartle, these people whom you are now nam- 
ing were all connected with the Pacific Northwest Labor School, is 
that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct ; they were all connected with it. 

Mr. Ktjnztg. Do you have any further information of any kind on 
this Phyl Gillette? 

Mrs. Hartle. He lived in the south part of Seattle — not in the 
i^ainier Valley area but more out toward the Boeing area. 

Trudy Kirkwood lived in the north Seattle area T knew her in the 
middle and latter 1940's as a member of the Communist Party, as 
being active in Communist Party cultural work. She was the wife 
of Mel Kirkwood at the time that I knew her. 

Mr. KuNziG. That is the Mel Kirkwood that was mentioned here 
yesterday, is it not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

William Mutch, I knew him as a member and officer in the water- 
front section of the Communist Party in the middle and later 1940's. 

Mary Salvus — I knew her as a member of the Alki branch of the 
Communist Party in west Seattle, and she lived in the Alki Point 
area. That was in the middle and the latter 1940's. 

Edith Coley — I met her at a Communist women's conference in the 
north King region of the Communist Party shortly before I left Seat- 
tle in 1950. 

Hazel Johnson — I knew her formerly as Hazel jNIcCannon. I have 
worked with her in her Communist Party assignment as executive 
secretary of the Congress of American Women. I knew her in Seat- 
tle in the middle 1940's. 

Helen Tavernite — I knew her as a member in one of the professional 
branches of the north King area and connected with cultural work 
of the Communist Party. 

Florence Bean James 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you spell that name ? 

Mrs. Hartle. B-e-a-n J-a-m-e-s. I knew her as a member of the 
Repertory branch of north King County and connected with a cultural 
work in which the Communist Party was interested. I had met with 
her personally regarding cultural work of the Communist Party. 

Merwin Cole — He was a district board member and a district com- 
mittee member, since the time that I had known him, from 1942 until 
shortly after the middle 1940's. He lived in the north Seattle area, 
was formerly, around the middle 1940's an officer of the Building 
Service Employees' Union. 

H. J. Phillips — I knew him as a member of a professional branch 
in north King County and knew him formerly as a teacher at the Uni- 
versity of Washington. He was a branch chairman of a branch in 
north King County. 

A. M. Ottenheimer — I knew him and met him at a meeting of the 
Repertory branch of north King County. 

Prof Harold Eby — I knew him as a member of the district board 
and district committee from 1932 until about the middle 1940's or 
shortly after. I knew him to be a professor at the University of 
Washington. He lived in the North Seattle area. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6093 

M. W. Kirkwood has already been mentioned before. 

Carl Brooks — I knew him as a district committee member; as a 
chairman for a time of the district Nej^ro commission of the Commu- 
nist Party. He lived in the Madison district. I knew him as a Com- 
munist Party leader before I came to Seattle in 1942, in the latter 
1930's, and knew him as a Communist Party member and leader up 
until around the middle 1940's, at which time he left this area. 

Hallie Donaldson — I knew her as a member of the Communist 
Party active in cultural work. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you spell her first name, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. H-a-1-l-i-e. She lived in North Seattle. I knew her 
as a member from the time I came to Seattle in 1942 until I left in 
1950. I believe that she was a teacher in the public-school system, 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mrs. Hartle, do you have any information that 
you can give this committee concerning groups or organizations that 
backed the Pacific Northwest Labor School, either with knowledge of 
it Communist activity or innocently, without knowledge of the Com- 
munist control ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There were several affiliated organizations of the 
Pacific Northwest Labor School — and this is what I know about them ; 
this is my understanding of their situation 

Mr. KuNziG. What period of time are you speaking of now ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I am speaking of the time of the Pacific Northwest 
Labor School. That was in the middle 1940's — around that time and 
somewhat thereafter — at the time that they were affiliated. 

The Aeronautical Industrial District Lodge No. 751, which is often 
Imown as the Boeing union. According to my knowledge, there was 
no Communist influence in it, no Communist domination of this union, 
to my knowledge. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you mean that this is a situation then perhaps when 
a union innocently backs this type of organization without knowing 
what it was like or without having any information about its true aim 1 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I believe that that was the case, I was quite well 
acquainted with the Communist Party influence in the aero mechanics, 
being assigned to aircraft concentration work, and I am quite certain 
there was very little Communist Party influence in it. 

Mr. Velde. Mrs, Hartle, how long was the Pacific Northwest Labor 
School in existence here ? 

Mrs. Hartle. For several years — 2 or 3 years. It had the name 
Seattle Labor School and then Pacific Northwest Labor School, but it 
was in existence for several years. 

Mr. Velde. What years? If you can pin it down a little more 
definitely. 

Mrs, Hartle, The time of the school, as best that I can remember, 
was about the middle 1940's and a little beyond that — witliout being 
able to give you the exact time of the starting and the exact time of the 
ending. 

Mr, Velde. Do you know whether or not it was in existence at any 
time during the period of the GI bill of rights, when students were 
allowed tuition paid by the Federal Government and the taxpayers? 

Mrs. Hartle. My memory says that it would coincide with that 
period ; yes. 

Mr. Velde. Do you know of any cases where a student at the school 
received benefits from the GI bill of rights to attend the school ? 



6094 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHAVEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle. No ; I don't know of any such cases. 

Mr. Velde. There have been a number of cases throughout the 
country where the Federal Government — the taxpayers were paying 
for the education of young men, GI's, in such schools. 

Mrs. Hartle. I have heard that mentioned in connection with such 
schools, but I have no knowledge that that practice was ever em- 
ployed or ever succeeded here. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should show that 
the Seattle Labor School was cited as an adjunct of the Communist 
Party by Attorney General Tom Clark on December 4, 1947, and that 
the Pacific Northwest Labor School, by the other name, was cited as 
communistic by Attorney General J. Howard McGrath, September 11, 
1950. 

Would you continue, please, Mrs. Hartle ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The motor-coach employees — I know of no Com- 
munist Party influence in that organization. 

The Building Service Employees Union, Local 6, was for a long 
period completely Communist-dominated. High offices have been held 
in this union by George Bradley, William K. Dobbins, Mervin Cole, 
Ward Coley, Jess Fletcher, all of whom I knew to be Communist 
Party members at the time that they held these offices. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now this union and all of these unions that you are 
discussing, you are mentioning in connection with the fact that they 
were affiliated with the Pacific Northwest Labor School; is that 
correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were there any others ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The cannery workers was affiliated. It was once 
headed by Conrad Espe, whom I knew to be a Communist Party mem- 
ber. I had attended a national convention at which he was a delegate 
and to which I was a visitor in 1938. 

Mr. KuNziG, Can you give us any further address or identification 
in any way of Conrad Espe ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The only thing further that I know about him is that 
he was living somewhere in the area near Seattle. I haven't seen him 
for quite a long, long time. 

To the best of my knowledge, there was no dominating influence by 
the Communist Party of the cannery-workers union at the time that I 
knew it to be affiliated with the school. 

The machinists union was also affiliated. The business agent for 
several years of the machinists union during this time was Harold 
Johnston, who was a member also of the district committee of the Com- 
munist Party of which I was a member. The Communist Party has 
always had a number of members in the machinists union. Some of 
them that I can remember are Glen Kinney, Ray Campbell, Frank 
Kerr, Gene Robel. They were members at about the time that this 
affiliation was in effect. 

Mr. Kttnzto. Now the only identification you have ffiven so far as 
to these four people — Kinney, Campbell, Kerr, and Robel — is their 
connection with the machinists' union. Is there any further identi- 
fication at all that you can assist us here with this morning ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Harold Johnston lived for a time in the middle 1940's 
and shortly after that in the Auburn area on a farm. I knew him as 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6095 

a member of the Communist Party of the machinists' branch and have 
attended functionaries' meetings with him in Seattle. 

Glen Kinney lived in the central Seattle area. 

Kay Campbell lived in the Queen Anne area. 

Frank Kerr lived close to Renton. 

Gene Robel lived for awhile in Ballard and then later in Kenny dale, 
Wash., near Renton. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, I would like to turn now from the Pacific 
Northwest Labor School to a different subject and question you about 
the Washington Pension Union, 

Can you tell the committee, from your own personal knowledge, 
what connection the Washington Pension Union had, if any, with 
Communist activity in this area ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There was quite a lot of connection with Communist 
activity in this area between the Communist Party and the Washing- 
ton Pension Union. The Northwest district of the Communist Party 
has paid a great deal of attention to the Washington Pension Union 
for a long period of years. What to do next in the Pension Union 
has been the subject of many discussions in district board and district 
committee meetings in which I have participated between the period 
1932 to 1940, and in large district committee meetings before that in 
the latter 1930's. 

Important offices and many local offices of the Washington Pension 
Union have been held by Communist Party members, and the activities 
and policies of the Pension Union have always been supported by the 
Communist Party. 

Many issues have been brought into the Pension Union by the Com- 
munist Party and gained wide support by so doing. 

For several years prior to his death in 1953, William J. Pennock 
was president of the Washington Pension Union, its top position, and 
I have known him as a member of the district committee in the first 
halfofthel940's. 

Mr. KuNziG. So that the record may be clear, William J. Pennock 
was a defendant with you in the Smith Act trial up until his death, is 
that right? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that is right. 

The Communist Party in this district viewed the Washington Pen- 
sion Union as really its most important single front organization. It 
is called mass organization by the Communist Party ; they don't use 
the term "front organization." They call it a "mass organization." 

It was the largest and most influential and second only to the Wash- 
ington Commonwealth Federation, which was a federation of organ- 
izations. And the Washington Pension Union was an affiliate of the 
Washington Commonwealth Federation, in which the Communist 
Party likewise had a dominating influence. 

Some of the officers of the Washington Pension Union w^hom I have 
known as Communist Party members are : 

Mable Conrad — I knew her as a secretary of the Washington Pen- 
sion Union and as a Communist Party member in the west Seattle area 
from the time I came to Seattle in 1942 until I left in 1950. To the 
best of my knowledge, she is still an officer of the Washington Pension 
Union. 

Lorraine Hester was known to me as a Communist Party member 
from about 1947 until I left Seattle in 1950. I knew her as a member 



f 

6096 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA | 

of the Alki branch of the Communist Party in west Seattle. I have , 
known her to hold an office in the Washington Pension Union. I be- | 
lieve it was the position of treasurer. To the best of my knowledge  
she is still holding that position at the present time. 

Dorothy Davis was known to me as a Communist Party member 
from about 1947 until I left Seattle in 1950. She lived in the central 
Seattle area. I knew her to be an officer or an organizer for the Wash- 
ington Pension Union during the latter part of this time. 

William Cumming was for a period an organizer in the Washington 
Pension Union in about 1949. He was known to me as a member of j 
the Communist Party until I left Seattle in 1950, and lived in the i 
central Seattle area. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now did the Communist Party leaders in this area 
exercise a great deal of control over the activities of the Washington 
Pension Union, which control was unknown to the many members of 
the Washington Pension Union ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I am sure that the control was unknown to many of 
the Washington Pension Union members, but there is no doubt as to 
the very tight control of policies and activities of the Washington 
Pension Union by the Communist Party, and specifically by the dis- 
trict board, of which I was a member. 

Mr. KuNziG. About how many members would you say that the 
Washington Pension Union had in this period of time ? 

Mrs. Hartle. My knowledge of the membership of the pension 
union is that it was reported by William J. Pennock and others in 
meetings that it had about 10,000 members. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire ? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Is the Washington Pension Union still a functioning 
organization ? 

Mrs. Hartle. It was still functioning — well, to the best of my 
knowledge it is still functioning. If it has gone out of business, it has 
done so in the very recent few months. 

Mr. KuNziG. When you testified about the small nmnber of Com- 
munists controlling this group, is it your desire to tell this committee 
that as many as 10,000 people, innocently duped, were being led by a 
small group of Communists ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. I believe that is a correct thing to say. By sup- 
porting the demands or the desires or the imaginary desires of pen- 
sioners for pensions, it was possible to get those people to give their 
names to, to give their support to, and their money to many, many 
other issues that were very remote from pensions but which the Com- 
munist Party was interested in. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you continue, please, if you have any further 
information about it? 

Mrs. Harti.e. The membership of the Communist Party in the or- 
ganization was small, smaller than in most so-called mass-organization 
work. 

(At this point Mr. Scherer left the hearing room.) 

Mrs. Hartle. This was considered by the district leadership of the 
Communist Party, and by the national leadership as well, as being evi- 
dence of very successful mass work and it was often used as an exam- 
ple of successful Communist mass work — where it didn't take so many 
Communists in order to influence a large number of people. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6097 

Another person who has been an officer of the Washington Pension 
Union is Tom Rabbitt, whom I knew as a Communist from about 1943 
until I left Seattle in 1950. I knew him as a member of the district 
board for a period and as a member of the district committee in the 
earlier part of the period I have mentioned, 

Mr. KuNziG. If it lies within your knowledge, is this the same Mr. 
Rnbbitt who was a member of the State Senate of the State of Wash- 
ington ? 

Mrs. Haktle. Yes, that is the same Mr. Rabbitt. 

Mr. KuNziG. Was he a member of the Communist Party, to your 
knowledge, at the same time that he was a State senator in the State 
of Washington? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, he was. 

Mr. KuNziG. Was that known to the people of Washington ? 

Mrs. Harti.e. I think they suspected it, but I don't think it was due 
to Mr. Rabbitt or the Communist Party ; it was due to the newspapers. 

^fr. KuNZiG. Now in your discussion of the Washington Pension 
Union, you discussed front groups; you discussed what a front organi- 
zation was and explained that the Communists use the term "mass 
organization." 

I would like to turn now, if I may, to your knowledge of front work 
and have testimony from you this morning concerning fronts. 

Just what is a Communist front and how do the Communists use 
front organizations? 

Mrs. Hartle. The basic Marxist-Leninist theory behind Communist- 
front work is the definition of a relation between maximum and mini- 
mum demands. In Communist Party classes it is taught that an or- 
ganization, say, like the Socialist Party is for socialism — period — is 
all or nothin,Q:. The Communist theory says that this is a static ap- 
proach and that socialism cannot come out of just being for socialism 
or nothing, and the Communist theory says that the road to socialism 
has to he through a series of efforts that take up immediate demands 
in which the working class or other sections of the people are inter- 
ested and understand, and from there to lead theni on to a deeper un- 
derstanding of what is involved in achieving their demands. 

So the immediate demand might be a raise in wages, but the maxi- 
mum demand — and this maximum demand is set by Marxism-Lenin- 
ism, not by the workers, is socialism. Then the relation is pointed out 
that the gain of higher wages cannot be achieved and adequate wages 
cannot be achieved without putting up a struggle, and in the course of 
carrying on these struggles the Communists say that the workers will 
k-arn the way to get the fullest possible return from their labor is to 
have socialism, and in this way all of these minimum and maximum 
demands are connected up. 

The aim of the Communist Party in taking up these immediate de- 
mands is not to achieve the immediate demand; that is not the basic 
aim of the Communist Party — to achieve the immediate demand, but 
to organize and educate and unite the working class and its allies in 
the course of the struggle for these demands. For instance, an achieve- 
ment in the raise in wages that Communist leaders might lead in a 
union is considered a byproduct of the revolutionary movement, and 
this is the way it is explained in basic Marxist-Leninist theory. 

Another part of this theory is that demands that are achieved with- 
out struggle are reforms and concessions by the capitalist class, and 



6098 COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

it is also said by Communist theory that these concessions breed ilhi- 
sions in the capitalist system. This is all in Communist terminology, 
but it was explained to me in a school that I went to that if the capi- 
talist class — of course that means the employers — were to give a raise 
in wages or any other concessions without the workers and the unions 
putting up a big struggle for it — well, the workers would think, "This 
system is pretty good ; we think we will stay with it." And this is what 
is called illusions in capitalism by the Communist Party. 

The Communist Party in this country thinks, incidentally, that the 
workers are very full of illusions, and I readily understand now why 
they think so. 

Labor leaders who negotiate and achieve results for the union mem- 
bership without rousing up the members to a big struggle to picket 
lines or big meetings and a lot of activity are considered to be class 
collaborationists ; these are people who help the capitalist system keep 
going by making it work. 

Mr. Clardy. May I inquire, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. Then, Witness, what are you saying, in summation is 
that the Communist Party is not interested actually in furthering the 
best interests of the workers but rather in using the workers as a tool 
to achieve revolution eventually ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The way the Communist Party puts it is that these 
immediate demands must be struggled for in order to unite, educate, 
and organize the workers and make them a force that can eventually 
take power in organized socialism, but what is gained on these imme- 
diate demands — the gains that are made — the Communist Party is 
not against those gains, if they are achieved in struggle. However, the 
gains are merely byproducts of the revolutionary movement. 

Mr. Clardy. They figure that by keeping the workers steamed up, 
more or less, they are training them for the ultimate moment when 
comes the revolution ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct. 

Mr. Clardy. It is sort of the basic training, so to speak, for the final 
blow? 

Mrs. Hartle. Strikes have been described as training schools of the 
workers. 

Mr. Clardy. Thank you. 

Mrs. Hartle. The real reason why the Communist Party takes up 
these minimum demands is to organize the forces for the seizure of 
power, to prepare these forces to fight. And that is basic in Marxist- 
Leninist theory and is taught in the classes, is read in the books tliat 
are used in the classes and that are circulated by the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. How would the success of this type of front work be 
measured ? 

(At this point Mr. Jackson left the hearing room.) 

Mrs. Hartle. The success of this front work is measured a great \ 
deal by how ably a small number of Communists can lead and influence 
and dominate a large number of people. If it takes 1 Communist to 
lead 1 non-Communist, that is not considered very successful mass 
work ; but if 1 Communist can lead 100 or 200 or 300 non-Communists, 
then that is considered more siiccessful. 

Mr. Clardy, IVfr. Chairman, may I inquire again ? 

IVfr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 



COMMUNIST ACTWITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6099 

Mr. Clardt. It has been said repeatedly that there are approximate- 
ly 25,000 known or identified Communists in the United States. 1 am 
not sure that that is an accurate figure; I think it is an underestimate. 
But assuming that it is accurate, aren't the people of this country de- 
luding themseh'es when they are trying to measure the strength and 
the influence and the possibilities of the Communist Party when they 
think in terms of 25,000? In other words, should you not multiply 
that 25,000 by at least 100 or more in order to measure the acts of in- 
fluence and possibilities for harm of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I believe that that is still the case. It is less the 
case than it was some years ago, however. 

Mr. Clardy. Wouldn't you say that it is less the case because com- 
mittees such as this and other movements have been exposing them 
and stripping them of their coloration that disguises what they are 
trying to do ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; that is certainly true. 

Mr. Clardy. Thank you. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, following the line of questioning, Mrs. Hartle, 
that was mentioned just a brief moment ago by Congressman Clardy, 
of Michigan, I would like to discuss with you and get your testimony 
on the conflict of union interests and Communist Party interests. In 
other words, if there is a conflict, does the union interest come out on 
top or does the Communist Party interest come out on top ? Is the 
Communist Party really interested in the workingman ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, the Communist Party, of course, says that it is 
the party of the working class, and that it has no interest separate and 
apart. That is what it says. And that is what many people believe 
and what I believed for a considerable period of time. But a closer 
examination of how this works, being the party of the working class, 
and what actually happens, have led me to see that this is not the 
case, that the Communist Party has other objectives besides those of 
serving the interests of the working class. 

(At this point Mr. Jackson returned to the hearing room.) 

Now, the Communist Party of the United States, or as far as I 
know, no other real Communist Party has ever said in its theory that 
it was serving the interests of the working class of this country. ' They 
always say they are serving the interests of the working class of the 
world as a whole, not just of this country. 

The Communist Party says that it wants to make its main base 
among the workers, and there is a great deal in the Marxist- Leninist 
works and in the current works of the Communist Party that deals 
with works among working people, especially the organized workers . 
And there is a great deal of discussion and planning and activity of 
the Communist Party in the trade-union fields, and work in the trade 
unions has always had a high place on the Communist agenda and 
■especially since the reconstitution of the Communist Party in 1945. 

And such persons as Karley Larsen— — 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you spell that name, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. K-a-r-l-e-y L-a-r-s-e-n. Then William Dodd, Merwin 
Cole, Jess Fletcher, who were the top leaders in trade unions and 
were able to carry Communist policies to a great degree through the 
unions, were always considered very important persons by the Com- 
munist Party. 



6100 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Velde. Mrs. Hartle, you mentioned the reconstitution of tlie 
Communist Party in 1945. 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

ISIr. Velde. And you referred to Earl Browder in that connection, 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Velde. I wonder if you would go into Oiat a little more fully 
and explain to the committee the effect of the Duclos letter in the 
Pacific Northwest? 

Mrs. Hartle. I should say first that in 1944 there was a national 
convention and district conventions. Discussion was held under the 
leadership of Earl Browder that the Communist Party be dissolved 
and that a Communist political association be set up in this country 
after World War II of course. Earl Browder gave the opinion now 
that fascism had been defeated in World War II, there was the oppor- 
tunity to have a long period of peaceful relations on a world scale and 
of peaceful development and progress in our country, as between the 
working class and the capitalist class. 

(At this point Mr. Scherer returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Velde. You are speaking now of Earl Browder's idea? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; and it was around this that the Communist 
Political Association was set up after the Communist Party was 
dissolved. 

Then Jacques Duclos, a French Communist Party leader, wrote an 
article in the theoretical organ of the Communist Party, and in this 
article — it is called the Duclos letter — this article stated that the Amer- 
ican Communist Party had gotten off the road of Marxism-Leninism, 
off tlie road of class struggle — accused Earl Browder of revisionism 
of Marxism-Leninism. This letter was purportedly written to en- 
lighten the French Communist Party members. However, it was 
printed in the Daily Worker. A discussion took place around it in 
the Communist Political Association and then it developed later that 
evidently William Z. Foster had had ideas along this line, too, and 
the result of that was to reconstitute the Communist Party, dissolve 
the Communist Political Association in 1945. 

So the Communists of this country reconstituted the Communist 
Party on Marxist-Leninist lines program theory. 

Mr. Velde. Isn't it true, too, that the Duclos letter advocated more 
militancy in the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that was the analysis : That there could not be 
peace in the world and that there could not be peace in our country, 
that the class struggle always goes on until Communists win out in a 
world scale and you have socialism and later communism assured on 
a world scale. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. D0Y1.E. At that point I think it very appropriate that I call the 
committee's attention to page 43 of a booklet published by the Ameri- 
can Bar Association in September 1951, in which Earl Browder is 
referred to, and I will read it, it is very brief. It is right along the 
line of the witness' observations : 

What are the conditions for membership in the Communist Party? 

The conditions for membership in our party are contained in the following 
pledge read by Comrade Browder to 2,000 workers who were initiated into the 
party in the New York district in 1935. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6101 

"I now take my place in the ranks of the Communist Party, the party of the 
working class. I take this solemn oath to give the best that is m me to the 
service of my class. I pledge myself to spare no effort in uniting the workers 
in militant struggle against fascism and war. I pledge myself to work unspar- 
ingly in the unions, in the shops, among the unemployed, to lead the struggles 
for the daily needs of the masses. I solmenly pledge to take my place in the 
forefrojit of the strugle for Negro rights; against Jim-Crowism and lynching, 
against the chauvinist lies of the ruling class. I pledge myself to rally the 
masses to defend the Soviet Union, the land of victorious socialism. I pledge 
myself to remain at all times a vigilant and firm defender of the Leninist line of 
the party, the only line that insures the triumph of Soviet power in the United 
States." 

And under that appears the following, which I quote. 

"The undersigned declares his adherence to the program and statutes of the CI 
(Communist International) and the Communist Party of the United States of 
America and agrees to submit to the discipline of the party and to engage actively 
in its work." 

I have two other paragraphs, Mr. Chairman, that I would like to 
read for the record at a later place in our hearing, but I call attention 
to the fact that this Communist pledge in 1935, as read by Earl Brow- 
der about 10 years before he was expelled from the Communist leader- 
ship in the United States, made no mention of any loyalty to the United 
States of America. There was no pledge of support of the United 
States Constitution ; it all referred to support of the Soviet Union. 

Mr. Jackson. Will the gentleman yield ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. In effect, it constitutes a repudiation of American 
citizenship. Is that not the case ? 

Mr. Doyle. That is right. 

Mr. Ci^ARDY. Mr. Chairman, this has not been brought out clearly, 
and I thought perhaps we could do so at this moment. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. Duclos was not speaking for Duclos; he had just come 
from Moscow and was speaking for Eussian communism when he 
wrote the letter, was he not ? 

:' Mrs. Hartle. My knowledge of that is that Thorez had been in 
Soviet Russia, and I was told by Henry Huff in a sort of an aside that 
in regard to the Duclos letter and Duclos importance, that we should 
not forget that Thorez had been in Russia. 

Mr. Clardy. He retreated to Russia in order to avoid service in the 
French Army and then came back and brought the message; but 
Duclos, himself, had also been to Moscow, had he not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I don't know that he had been there. 

Mr. Clardy. At any rate, whether he had or not, he was bringing 
the message of world communism from Russia and not speaking merely 
as an individual ? 

Mrs. Hartle. It was intimated to me and strongly implied, and I 
understood it that way, that Thorez who had been in Russia, was back 
in France and that the writing of this Duclos article was connected 
with Thorez coming back, and therefore the Communist Party of the 
Soviet Union was behind this Duclos letter. 

Mr. Clardy. Just as the Daily Worker today is the telegraph system 
for all the Communists in the United States, the Duclos letter was the 
same thing for communism generally all over the world, wasn't it ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I believe that was correct, and it had that stand- 
ing. 

Mr. Clardy. Thank you. 



6102 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Velde, Speaking of the Duclos letter just reminds me that we 
have another yellow letter here which was circulated today in the city 
of Seattle. It appears to be a little bit more literate than the one 
which we mentioned yesterday, although it is just as vicious in attack- 
ing the committee. The letter is purportedly issued by the Washing- 
ton State Labor Defense Committee, 84 Union Street, Seattle, Wash., 
Bill Gettings, chairman. The letter purports to suggest ways and 
means by which people subpenaed before this committee can secure 
legal advice and contains this statement: 

Ask your friends and union to support you in the tight against these irresponsi- 
ble characters — 

meanings members of the Un-American Activities Committee — 

and to lieep from being fired from your job when you refuse to be a stool pigeon. 

and I presume by that they are referring to you, Mrs. Hartle? 

Mrs. Hartle. No doubt. 

Mr. Velde. Secondly, they ask if any members subpenaed need 
assistance they should feel free to call on the Labor Defense Commit- 
tee. I just w^ant to say then that the Committee on Un-American 
Activities is not interested in any way in causing any disturbances in 
the legitimate labor unions in this area or anywhere else throughout 
the country. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. In order that the comrades everywhere throughout 
the country may know that the comrades here in Seattle are hard at 
work, I would suggest that the communication be inserted into the 
official transcript of the record. 

Mr. Doyle. I would like to second the motion. ' 

Mr. Velde. Without objection, it will be ordered. 

Mr. Jackson. It would be terrible for the local Cominform to feel 
that the comrades had fallen down on the job. 

Smear and run is exactly what we can expect of the Velde Un-American Com- 
mittee when they come to Seattle for a four-day session next week. Announced 
schedule is Monday through Thursday, June 14-17, 9 : 30 a. m. to 5 p. m., County 
Commissioners' Auditorium, County-City Building. 

Why is Velde bringing his TV show to Seattle at this time? 

This is an important election year, and some people in our state think our six 
Republican Congressmen deserve to be 'retired' ; a lot of trade unions think some- 
thing should be done to get jobs for their unemployed members; a large number 
of trade unions and farmers' organizations together with leading figures in public 
life are demanding more public power, public schools, and public housing which 
all our people need, that will also supply jobs to luiemployed workers. These are 
the real issues in our state — but — Harold Himmel Velde and his thought-control 
Un-American Committee agree with McCarthy that these are dangerous thoughts 
and subversive activities, and if allowed to continue, more people might get 
together and elect some congressman and legislators who will work FOR the 
people — they might even pass an Initiative to help the unemployed — they might 
even demand trade with Indochina instead of war ! 

The Administration considers our State so important that Velde will be here 
in person to direct his Un-American TV production personally — crowding legit- 
imate entertainers off the air with his stal)le of Star Stool Pigeons and any 
additional "talent" bis scouts may have dragged out of the gutters and sewers 
these past months. By past performances we can expect these professional wit- 
nesses to name more Democrats and Labor leaders as "secret Communists" and 
to say that organizations which fight for their members are "Communist infil- 
trated" ! 

In view of this we think that the signature campaign to put Initiative 196 
on the ballot in our State (to improve the Unemployment Insurance Act) is of 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6103 

utmost importance — Now — because Init. 196 meets a genuine need, and is already 
uniting tliousauds of people. Getting this measure on the ballot will constitute 
a victory for the people which no amount of smearing can stop. The more they 
smear it, the more people will turn out to vote FOR it. And it is a matter of 
record that when Labor turns for an election, they elect Congressmen and Legis- 
lators who listen to labor. 

THE FIFTH AMENDMENT 

Some people may lose their jobs because they use the 5th Amendment, and 
refuse to testify because they will not be informers. Some already subpoenaed 
have issued public statements and sent letters to friends and neighbors explain- 
ing why they will use the 5th Amendment. Many others who will not be sub- 
poenaed also stand to lose by being smeared, with little opportunity to defend 
themselves (except by banding together with others in like circumstances) be- 
cause the Congress who ask the questions and the stool pigeons who say what 
they're paid to say are the only ones who enjoy parliamentary immunity in 
this fiasco ! 

To date some 20 or more trade unionists, and about the same number of busi- 
ness and professional people have been subpoenaed. We are not at liberty to 
 publicize the names of all whom we know have been subpoenaed, but we can say 
that to our knowledge, no officer of any union has been subpoenaed to date. This 
is obviously a deliberate trick of the Un-American Committee who hope to lull 
the trade unions most concerned into being quiet until the last minute when it 
will be more difficult to arouse the union membership to the kind of demonstra- 
tion that will put these bums on the run. 

Some serious thought must be given to these questions in the next few days 
so that we will all start to MOVE — in the same direction. 

We suggest : 

1. If subpoenaed — now or later — immediately consult an attorney. Do not 
allow yourself to be subpoenaed from your job or home to the hearings without 
legal advice. Do not go into any closed sessions without your attorney. Ask 
your friends and union to support you in the fight against these irresponsible 
characters, and to keep from being fired from your job when you refuse to be a 
stool pigeon ; remember it is not a disgrace, but an honor to be attacked by these 
Un- Americans. 

2. If you need assistance, please feel free to call on Labor's Defense Com- 
mittee. 

Issued by : Washington State Labor Defense Commitee, 

84 Union Street, 

Seattle, Wash., Bill Gettings, Chairman. 

BG/j. 

Attention to letter. 

(At this point Mr. Velde left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, yesteday I mentioned that I had a copy 
of a news release issued by Walter P. Reuther, president of the na- 
tional UAW-CIO, and in view of this yellow sheet coming in this 
morning from alleged laboring men, it seems appropriate to read a 
small portion thereof to you. I wish to state that this news release 
by Mr. Reuther came into my possession when I was sitting as a mem- 
ber of the subcommittee in Flint, Mich., several weeks ago. It reads 
as follows : 

We have no quarrel with the professed purposes of the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities. Each witness appearing before these committees must 
of course make his own individual decision as to the course of action which he 
will follow in his testimony. This is a matter of individual conscience and judg- 
ment. However, we In UAW-CIO sincerely urge every witness called before the 
House Un-American Activities Committee, if it is at all possible to do so, to 
avoid using the fifth amendment. Protecting the good name and i*eputation of 
innocent people and their families does not absolve the former Communist from 
his patriotic duty as a citizen to testify fully of his firsthand knowledge of the 
names and activities of any Communist Party functionary, of any illegal activ- 
ities, or any evidence of conspiracy to overthrow the Government by force or 
violence, or evidence of a nature which would serve to strengthen the security 
of our Nation, while at the same time refusing to testify in any matter in which 



6104 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

he has no direct firsthand knowledge or any matter which has happened so far 
in the past that his memory cannot be relied upon with any degree of accuracy. 
We, the UAW-CIO, believe that this is the hour when America needs to take 
inventory and we dedicate ourselves to the basic principles and values which 
have been the source of our greatness, UAW-CIO, through years of practical 
experience and the forefront of fighting against communism, fully recognizes 
and understands the danger of the Communist world conspiracy. We support 
and shall continue to support every effort of our Government to meet this threat. 
We shall, however, resist every effort on the part of any apostle of fear, hatred, 
or hysteria, who would try to destroy the very freedom that we are dedicated to 
preserve. As a free people you must demonstrate the courage and good sense to 
resist the use of Communist and totalitarian methods under the guise of fighting 
communism — et cetera. 

I have not read all of that, JSIr. Chairman, because it is manifestly 
too long at this point, but I did think it was appropriate in view of 
this sheet distributed by a handful of alleged members of some branch 
of labor that the community knows of this declaration by Mr. Reuther. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you very much. I think it is quite obvious 
from the communications which the committee has received here and 
elsewhere that the vast majority of labor in the United States stands 
solidly behind the committee and the work that it is doing. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, I just want to pick up one further point 
in regard to the Duclos letter which you were talking about a few 
minutes ago. I should assume that the Duclos letter, along with cer- 
tain other points, might be called principal milestones in the course of 
the history of the American Comnmnist Party. I am referring to such 
milestones as the Nazi-Soviet nonaggression pact and the outbreak of 
war in Korea, for example. Here is w^hat I want to ask you. Is it 
safe to say that anyone who remained in the party through these 
major milestones along the way of history can be considered to be 
hard-core dedicated Communists? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I think that that can be said. I think that one 
should take notice of the fact, though, that I went through all those 
periods and was probably quite far above the average dedicated Com- 
munist, but I am not one any longer, and that there are many people 
even who have gone through these periods, and who may, through one 
event or another, have been able to see objectively what the Commu- 
nist Party really is and be able to break away. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Counsel, in that connection, I think that it should 
be stated again, as it has frequently been stated during committee 
hearings, that the committee urges any former Communist who has 
broken wnth the party to come forward voluntarily to testify. Dur- 
ing the hearings that were conducted by Mr. Doyle and by the 
presently acting chairman in San Diego several months ago, for the 
first time, I believe, four former Communists came to the hearing 
voluntarily, their testimony was received by the committee, and I 
think added considerably to the sum total of the knowledge now 
possessed by the committee as to the objectives and the goals of the 
Communist conspiracy. I am sure that all of the committee members 
Vv^ould want to urge at this time that any former Communists who may 
be listening or watching these broadcasts come forward and give what- 
ever testimony they can. They can be assured, I am certain, of a 
courteous and fair hearing, and it is certainly not the intent of the 
committee to persecute anyone in any way who desires to give such 
testimony. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6105 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now I will return to the subject we were discussing 
a while back, the conflict of union interests and Communist Party 
interests. 

Especially since this reconstitution that you have talked about of 
the Communist Party, has there been any further emphasis of this type 
of interest, this type of putting the party over union interests ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Since the reconstitution, especially, the Communist 
Party has emphasized its interest in working people and in labor or- 
ganizations through its concentration policy, to which the whole C'om- 
munist Party was organized and geared in this area. The aim of the 
Communist Party, through this concentration policy, was to gain a 
strong foothold in the basic industries, especialy lumber, marine, and 
aircraft in this area. And this was the major objective of the Com- 
munist Party in this district up to the time that I left Seattle in 1950. 
So that I think that it becomes clear that the Communist Party's in- 
volvement with labor organizations is on a different pattern and with 
a different perspective than just helping trade-union members gain 
their trade-union rights ; it has a definite organized concentration pro- 
gram of its own — a perspective of its own. 

One of the things that I would like to bring out is that the Commu- 
nist Party, when it says that it is the party of the working class, in its 
basic theory doesn't say that the Communist Party of the United States 
is the Communist Party of the working class in the United States. In 
the basic theory, it is made clear that the Communist Party and 
the Communist movement is basing itself on the entire world working 
class, which of course it is very easy to analyze — that it fits in with the 
idea of an international conspiracy and seizure of power on a whole- 
world scale, but that is the way the Communist terminology goes in 
order to sell itself through its members to the working people. 
1 The interests of any of the working class, if you use the term "class" 
of any particular country has to be subordinated to the interests of 
the world working class as a whole. It says in Communist theory 

(At this point Mr, Velde returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. KuNziG. So that if the power of the leaders of communism 
emanated from Russia, they could subordinate the interests of Ameri- 
can workers to the interests of Russian workers, is that right? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that is exactly how it would work out in practice, 
and when I say that I discovered that, that is the practice that I don't 
agree with. 

Mr. Clardt. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire ? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. Isn't that the thing that makes the Communist Party 
such a grave danger to this country, then, that is, to be a dedicated 
Communist you have to be, in effect, a traitor to your own country ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 
I Mr. Clardy. And owe your allegiance to Russia ? 
"> Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that is absolutely true. 
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, at this point may I interrupt? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

(At this point Mr. Velde left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Doyle. May I interrupt for the purpose of getting into the 
record a quotation from Mr. Lenin on that point, as set forth on page 



6106 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

11 of this booklet by the American Bar Association, which I earlier 
quoted from. It reads : 

Hence, the victory of socialism is possible, first in a few or eveai in one single 
capitalist country taken separately. The victorious proletariat of that country, 
having expropriated the capitalists and organized its own socialist production, 
would rise against the rest of the capitalist world, attract to itself the oppressed 
classes of other countries, raise revolts among them against the capitalists and 
in the event of necessity come out even with armed force against the exploiting 
classes and their states. 

Mr. Jackson. The fact that Mr. Doyle reads this quote from the 
document of the American Bar Association should carry no connota- 
tion, Mr. Doyle being a distinguished member of that great profession. 

Mr. Doyle. I am very glad that I am a member of that great profes- 
sion. So that there will be no misunderstanding, Mr. Jackson, this 
booklet of the American Bar Association from which I read, is their . 
brief on communism, Marxism, and Leninism, purposes, objectives 
and practices, and as a result of a special committee of the American 
Bar Association, which committee made a study of the subject of 
Marxism and communism and Leninism. In being a member of the 
California bar and the bar of the Supreme Court, I naturally am glad 
to refer to this booklet for authority. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Clardy. Of course, Mr. Chairman, that is not to say that our 
profession, the legal profession, of which Mr. Doyle and I and other 
members are a part, does not have its Communists also, as you know. 
There is one organization that is now wrestling with the Attorney Gen- 
eral because of that fact. It is too bad, but there it is. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank God there are very few of them, 

Mr. Clardy. That is right, and I hope we can arrange to have fewer. 

Mr. Jackson. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would it be correct to say that in Communist theory 
the starting point is that a union's interests nuist be the interests of 
the working class if they are not to be in conflict with the Communist 
Party's interests ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The world working class. It is not just in the interests 
of the American working class. 

I might say it this way. If this particular union has a program and 
if that program is in the interests of the members of that union, that 
is not enough. If it is in the interests of the working people of the 
whole country, that is not enough. It has to be in the interests of the 
world working class. And if there is anytliing that that union does 
that is in conflict with the interests of the Avhole world working class, 
it will be in conflict Avith Communist interests. 

Mr. Clarpy. Aren't you there using the term "world working class" 
a little bit out of place? Don't you really mean the Communist Party 
on a worldwide basis? They have no real interest in the working 
people, as such, anywhere at any time, do they? 

Mrs. Harti.e. Well, no, you are quite correct. That is true. But 
that is the terminology of the Communist Party by which it sells itself 
in a very subtle propaganda eff'ort, not only to people generally, but to 
its own members and, unfortunately, to some of its readers, even, like 
myself. 

(At this point Mr. Velde returned to the hearing room.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6107 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you continue, please, where you left off, I be- 
lieve, in your testimony concerning the conflict of union interests versus 
Communist Party interests? 

Mrs. Hartle. There would be a conflict in union interests and party 
interests if a union were to exclude Communists from their union or 
from positions of leadership in the union, or if the union were to ex- 
press its opinion in any way in disagreement with Soviet Russia ; or 
were to express an opinion on any number of issues in conflict with 
Communist Party policies — then there would be that conflict of union 
interests and Communist interests. 

I think the best way to explain that is the way to eliminate any 
conflict of union interests and Communist Party interests is to have 
the Communist Party completely dominate the union, officers, policies 
and all, and that is the way to resolve the conflict. 

Mr. KuNziG. And that is what the Communist Party would like to 
have in all unions, if they could, is that correct? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that is what they would like to have. 

Mr. KuNziG. Before turning to specific instances of conflict, Mr. 
Chairman, I should like to recommend a recess. 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in recess for 15 minutes at this 
point. 

(Wliereupon, at 10 : 25 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 10:40 a. m.) 

(Wliereupon, at 10:43 a. m., the hearing was reconvened.) 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I have in my hand this yellow sheet 
which you received this morning, similar to the one which we received 
yesterday, this one being signed in typewriting by the Washington 
State Labor Defense Committee, 84 Union Street, Seattle, Wash., Bill 
Gettings, chairman. I think it is significant that among other things, 
he says: 

We are not at liberty to publicize the names of all whom we know have been 
subpenaed, but we can say that to our knowledge no officer of any union has 
been subpenaed to date. This is obviously a deliberate trick of the Un-American 
Committee to hope to lull the trade unions most concerned into being quiet until 
the last minute, when it will be more diflBcult to arouse the union membership to 
the kind of demonstration that will put these bums on the run. 

I read that, Mr. Chairman, because on its face it is so ridiculous as 
of course not to be worthy of vigorous consideration, but it also should 
be significant that this committee now in its second day of hearings 
has not subpenaed any union officer. That, in itself, should indicate 
how false it is, and that this House Un-American Committee is not try- 
ing to hurt or harm any functioning of any legitimate labor union. 

Mr. Velde. Thank you for that observation. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mrs. Hartle, earlier this morning you mentioned the 
name of Karly Larsen which is, of course, a very well-known name 
in this area. He was acquitted in the Smith Act trial, was one of 
those defendants in the trial. It was repeatedly asserted, I remember, 
through his attorney, I believe, that he had left the Communist Party 
in 1946. I would like to ask you to give the committee the benefit of 
your knowledge as fully as you can concerning Karley Larsen and his 
activities in the Communist Party. 



6108 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

(At this point Mr. Doyle left the hearing room. ) 

Mrs. Hartle. I have know Karley Larsen as a member of the dis- 
trict committee of the Communist Party from the time I came to 
Seattle in 1942, until the time I was sent underground in July 1950, 
and I have met with him in many district committee meetings through- 
out this period. 

I also knew him as a member of the district board when I left 
Seattle, and that is the district executive board, and I recall him as 
being a continuous member of the district board from 1945 until 
July 1950. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, then if Karley Larsen were to make the 
statement that he left the Communist Party in 1946; I put it to you 
clearly and plainly, is that statement a lie ? 

Mrs. HartLiE. Yes, that is a lie. 

Mr. KuNziG. To your own personal knowledge, it is a lie ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. Was he an active member of the party when you 
went underground in 1950 ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, he was an active member of the party and a mem- 
ber of the district board of which I was also a member at the time 
that I went underground in 1950. 

Mr. Scherer. In other words he did not leave the party in 1950. 
You lost contact with him merely because you went underground; 
is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Because I went underground. 

Mr. Scherer. But at the time you left he was still an active mem- 
ber of the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG Would you continue, please Mrs. Hartle, in your testi- 
mony concerning Karley Larsen ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I have know Karley Larsen as a leading Communist 
Political Association and Communist Party figure in lumber and a 
leading Communist Party trade unionist. He was a president of dis- 
trict 2 and an international officer of the International Woodworkers 
of America during the time that I knew him as a Communist Party 
leader. 

I also knew that he was an officer of the Progressive Party of Wash- 
i]igton during the time that I knew him as a Communist Party leader. 

Mr. Scherer. May I interrupt again, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Velde. Yes, Mr. Scherer. 

]Mr. Scherer. Mr. Counsel, do you know or does the witness know 
whether Larsen testified at his hearing ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He did not testify. 

Mr. Scherer. Were witnesses produced that said that he left the 
party in 1945? 

]\Ir. KuNziG. To my understanding, of course, I was not present, 
Mr. Scherer, but I believe the counsel for Mr. Larsen repeatedly 
asserted that lie left the party in 1940. 

Is there any further testimony, or have you concluded your testimony 
concerning Karley Larsen. 

Mrs. Hartle. I did want to mention one more thing, and that was 
after I left Seattle to go underground, shortly after that, I returned 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6109 

to Seattle one evening and met witli Karley Larsen in a car regarding 
Communist Party business. Some discussion was held about how the 
Communist Party should function.. This meeting was arranged with 
me through the directives of Henry Huff, chairman of the Communist 
Party of Washington. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you tell us when this meeting took place, roughly ? 

Mrs. Hartle. It was the latter part of 1950. 

Later, Henry Huff informed me that a district convention had been 
held at the end of 1950, and he told me that this convention had been 
held and that I had been elected to the district committee at this con- 
vention. I was informed after it was held that I had been elected, 
and that my name had not been used but that I had been described 
in such a fashion that the delegates there would know who was referred 
to and the word "waitress" was used in connection with me, so the 
delegates would know who I was. 

Also, Henry Huff told me that Larsen was also elected to that dis- 
trict committee, and that the name Mr. "Wood was used in describing 
him so the delegates would know who he was, in being elected to the 
district committee. 

I was not present at that convention, but that is what Henry Huff 
told me. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you say that the fact that you were referred to 
as a waitress, and that the word "Wood" was used, as you have just 
testified — would you explain this a little further on that subject, as 
to why that was used, how that was meant by the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. How that was meant was that it was a security meas- 
ure of the Communist Party to make sure that no FBI agent could 
ever find out who were members of the district committee, and by 
describing people in these terms it would also make it impossible to 
testify as to who was really elected because there could be a lot of 
waitresses, there could be a lot of Mr. Woods. However, Huff made 
it clear to me who was meant by this. 

Mr, KuNziG. Now, Mrs. Hartle, let us turn back to what we were 
discussing before the break, the conflict of union interests and Commu- 
nist Party interests, and I said I was going to ask you questions con- 
cerning specific instances of conflict that may be known to you. 

Could you give us the benefit of your knowledge and specific 
instances of conflicts of union interests versus Communist Party 
interests ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The main conflict between union interests and that 
of the Communist Party takes place around the question of how to 
solve union problems. And inasmuch as the unions and their mem- 
bers do not have the objective of overthrowing our form of govern- 
ment but want to achieve their results within our governmental 
framework, they will seek to gain their results with a minimum of 
disturbance necessary in order to achieve what they consider to be 
their just and necessary demands. The Communists, though, on the 
contrary, are not so much interested in the result as in the method used 
to achieve them, and they will attempt to present the demands and 
organize the fight for them in such a manner as to involve the greatest 
possible amount of activity of the members, and to have this activity 
reach the higest possible militancy. 



I 



6110 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA J 

For example, in Spokane in about 1936, while I was in the Commu- 
nist Party there, the Communist Party had some contact with union 
leaders in a certain union, and it was learned that the leaders in this 
local felt that they could negotiate for their demands with the com- \ 
pany ; but the advice of the Communists was to convince the workers 
to go on strike and to get the whole labor movement involved in sup- j 
porting the strike and to work for public approval of their demands 
in strikes ; in other words, to achieve their demands by more militant \ 
action than a settlement over the table between union leaders and ; 
company representatives. i 

(At this point Mr. Doyle returned to the hearing room.) ' 

Mr. KuNziG. Even if this settlement was to the great advantage of  
the laboring man, that is not what the party wanted, is that correct? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct. That is considered just a concession, 
and working over the table and getting results is considered class 
collaboration, and that is a big term in the Communist Party theory. 

It was explained to these union leaders by the Communists that it 
would be a great help to the labor movement and it would make it 
easier for other unions to get their demands, and so forth, if they 
would put on more of a struggle instead of negotiating. 

However, in the Communist circles, the analysis was that the strikes 
teach the workers how and whom to fight, educate them that when 
they reach the point that they themselves want socialism, they will be 
already trained in how to fight for it. And of course they learn how 
to fight for socialism in the course of fighting for minimum demands. 
The Communist Party constantly says that sooner or later the workers 
themselves will want socialism and it will be mighty handy if they 
know how to fight for it when the times comes that they see they 
want it. 

(At this point Mr. Jackson left the hearing room.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know of any instance involving the Teamsters' 
Union along the lines that you have just been discussing ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I remember quite a striking incident involving the 
Teamsters' Union in Spokane, too. The Teamsters' Union was on 
strike against the Davenport Hotel in Spokane, and this strike was '^ 
supported by the Central Labor Council of Spokane, and a regular 'u 
picket line was put on by the Teamsters' Union on the Davenport "i 
Hotel, but the Communists there worked for a mass picket line. They ^ 
tried to prevail on. the teamsters to have hundreds of persons partici- ( 
pating in the picket line. All their own members and to get public >i 
support to it, but the Central Labor Council and the Teamsters' Union | 
did not adopt this policy of trying to get a mass picket line. 

However, the Communists were not satisfied when they could not 
convince the Teamsters' Union to do this ; they decided to get at it in 
another way, and they used their influence in the Workers' Alliance i 
to send a large delegation to participate in this picket line, and the I 
delegation, of which I was a part, came up to the Davenport Hotel ,;: 
to try to join the picket line, and the officers of the Teamsters' Union, ii 
who were there with the picket line and on it, said that they didn't i 
want to have us there, that we .should go away, they didn't need us or 
want us on this picket line; so the answer of the Communists was, in 
which I participated, that they must want to lose the strike; they were 
selling out their workers and trying to lose the strike or they wouldn't 
turn down this help on their picket line. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6111 

Mr. ScHERER. May I interrupt, please ? 
Mr. KuNziG. What year was this ? 
Mrs. Hartle. It was in the middle 1930's. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you have any further example of this area of con- 
flict of union and Communist Party interests ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I can think of another example, and it is m a different 

field. 

Mr. KuNziG. What field is it in ? 

Mrs. Hartle. It is in the field of legislation and candidates in public 

office. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would vou tell us your knowledge in that field, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There Is a bigger area of conflict here and there has 
been in the State of Washington, and it has been around the question 
of getting union support to political candidates that did not represent 
the union's basic philosophy toward our Government, basic attitudes 
toward our Government. 

A Communist like Hugh DeLacy, Tom Eabbitt, or others — 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Hugh DeLacy to be a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you describe how and when you knew Hugh 
DeLacy to be a member of the Communist Party? 

Mrs." Hartle. I knew Hugh DeLacy as a member of the Communist 
Party from the time I came to Seattle until just before the middle 
1940's. I knew him as a member of the district legislative committee 
which had jomt meetings with the district board in the early 1940's. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know of your own personal knowledge whether 
he was a member of the Communist Party when he was a Member of 
the House of Representatives of the United States Congress ? 

I^Irs. Hartle. Yes, I am sure that he was. 

Mr. KuNziG. Was that known to the people of this State ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, I don't believe it was. 

Mr. Scherer. Was he a member of the underground at tliat time, 
or an open member of the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He was a member at large. 

Mr. Scherer. What does that mean ? Tell us. 

Mrs. Hartle. It is an individually attached member to some officer 
or other member of the Communist Party for the purpose of conceal- 
ment of membership. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is there any other testimony that you wish to give 
about Hugh DeLacy at this moment ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Not that I can think of. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, you mentioned also Tom Rabbitt, the senator 
whom you mentioned a moment ago, the State senator. Would you 
continue, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Tom Rabbitt was a State senator. 

Do you wish me to give you more about Tom Rabbitt ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, please. 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew him as a member of the Communist Party 
from the time that I came to Seattle in 1942 until I left in 1950. I 
knew him as a member of the district committee during a considerable 
part of this time and as a member of the district board of the Com- 
munist Party for one part of this time. 



6112 COM]VnjNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. ScHERER. Was he an open member or a member at large, as you 
have just described a member at large to be? 

Mrs. Hartle. He is not an open member — not an open member, 

Mr. ScHERER. Was he a member at large ? 

Mrs. Hartle. At one time he was a member at large and at another 
time a member of the branch that was a sort of branch at large on its 
own. 

Mr. Scherer. Was he a member at the time you went underground 
in 1950, or don't you know ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, to the best of my knowledge, he was. 

Mr. Velde. And what occupation did he have other than politics? 

Mrs. Hartle. I don't know what other occupation he had. He was 
an officer, a paid officer in the Progressive Party for a while, and he had 
been in other similar jobs. I don't know of any other line of work 
except being an organizer for this kind of work. 

Mr. Scherer. When was he State senator, Mrs. Hartle ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I don't recall the exact year that he was State senator. 

Mr. Scherer. Approximately how long ago was it? 

Mrs. Harti.e. It was right around the beginning of the 1940's — late 
1930's and early 1940's. 

Mr. KuNZiG. ]\Irs. Hartle, you started a sentence saying that a Com- 
munist like Hugh DeLacy, Tom Rabbitt, or others — then you were 
interrupted. Would you comment and finish that thought that you 
had? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. Such candidates masquerading as Democrats, 
that is, running on the Democratic ticket would get support on the 
basis — from unions they would get support on the basis of supporting 
certain union measures and gain the political support, endorsement, 
and sometimes financial support. However, if elected, they would go 
into office to further the policies of the Communist Party and to work 
on the policies of the Communist Party that it was interested in. Many 
times when such policies became known to the union they were rejected 
by them. 

Mr. KuNZTG. Now, Mrs. Hartle, in this country w^e always say that 
people can stand on their own feet and work at any political party or 
interest they wish and you would think tliat the Communists might 
put forth and they do put forth their candidates to fight for election, 
probably as it is done in our democratic system. How could the Com- 
munists justify this concealment of Comnuuiist Party membership? 

Mrs. Hartle. This concealment is explained by the Communist 
Party as being justifiable on the ground that the workers are not fully 
aware of their own interests, and are not fully aware of how to fight 
for their own interests, and the promise is made that when the workers 
get to know all about the Communist Party they will highly approve 
of it and give the support without concealment. This is the line of 
the Communist Party. All tliis is done in the best interests of the 
workers and the people, and later on when they find out all about the 
Communist Party and fully understand all its theory, they will be 
mighty happy that they have been fooled this way and that is very 
important. 

Mr. Clardy. Hitler used the same general idea in Germany, didn't 
he ? He knew best what was good for the people, better than they did. 

Mrs. Hartle. The end justifies the means is an argument that is very 
regularly used in the Communist Party — the end justifies the means. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6113 

Mr. KuNziG. I think this morning you are giving the people an 
opportunity of learning just what the Communist Party means. 

Mrs. Hartle. My own opinion is that the American workers and 
trade-union members will reject any such manipulating around with 
their destinies and interests, and I certainly advise them to stay out 
of the Communist Party, and to keep the Communist Party out of 

the unions. 

Mr. ScHEKER. And the more knowledge they have of the operation 
of the party,' as you are telling us about it here today, the sooner will 
be that rejection and the more effective will be that rejection, will it 

Mrs. Hartle. I believe that that is exactly what will happen — the 
more knowledge that organized labor has about the Communist Party, 
the less they will care to have aiiything to do with it. 

Mr. ScHERER. And they will be able to recognize it as it attempts 
to operate within the union. 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. I would like to turn now, Mrs. Hartle, to a different 
subject and a very vital subject, a very important subject in the country 
today and always, and that is the subject of how successful Communist 
Party infiltration has been, if any, in the field of religion, amongst the 
clergy, I mean, and the ministers in the area in which you are familiar. 
Could we discuss now for a brief period of time in your testimony this 
field of religion, and would you give the committee the benefit of your 
knowledge on this subject ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. What I have to give to the question of religion 
is really not so much practical or practice, as it is theory. 

The reason for that is that the Communist Party position and 
activities in the field of religion are very, very small and have a quite 
different nature than from say, the trade-union field. 

In the theory of the Communist Party, dialectical materialism is 
the world concept of Marxism-Leninism. That is the world concept, 
and it is considered to be scientific, superior to any other explanation 
of the world that has ever been developed, superior to all religions and 
all philosophies. It contends that matter is real and that spirit, 
though its ideas are forms of matter — the brain is defined as the organ 
of thought — and ideas of any kind, including religious ideas are forms 
of matter, according to this dialectical materialism. 

But it is also pointed out that not all ideas are right; some ideas 
are wrong and do not correspond with reality. 

I have not been able to solve that one and explain it to anybody, not 
even while I was a Communist. 

Mr. Velde. Mrs. Hartle, I do not want you to go into a long, detailed 
explanation of dialectical materialism. We might be here for the 
next 6 months. But could you explain generally whether the theory 
of dialectical materialism is similar in any respect, at least, to 
atheism ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; it is similar in many respects in that it does not 
recognize a supreme being of any kind. But it has a great deal more 
tacked on to it that makes it dissimilar. 

Mr. ScHERER. I would really be interested in hearing what she has 
to say. She is doing so well. 

Mr. Velde. All right, if you want to say a few more words about this 
concept that the Communists preach on dialectical materialism, I 



6114 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

think it would be interesting to the committee. We have had quite 
a little testimony on it. 

(At this point Mr. Jackson returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. ScHERER. You have been on this committee so much longer, Mr. 
Chairman. I am just a freshman and I would like to be educated, 
myself. 

Mr. Velde. All right ; if you will proceed, please. 

Mrs. Hartle. According to the Communist theory, historical ma- 
terialism is dialectical materialism applied to the sphere of social sci- 
ence, to the history of the world in which we live, and dialectical mate- 
rialism is not considered to be ordinary materialism ; it is a material- 
ism that is based on the idea that the only constant thing in the world 
is change, and this dialectical materialism is made up of Philosopher 
Hegel — part from the philosopher, Hegel, and part from the philos- 
opher. Feuerbach. and it is quite an involved matter, I assure you. 

And I believe that you could talk about it for quite a long time. It 
is awfully hard to understand. It takes you a long time to master 
that. 

Mr. Doyle. May I interrupt at that point, Mr. Chairman, to ask a 
blunt question ? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. In the philosophy of the dialectical materialism of the <; 
Communist Party in the United States, what place is tliere for a divine ■{ 
being or God or a supreme being, or whatever you want to call it ? \\ 

Mrs. Hartle. There is none. i' 

Mr. Doyle. There is what? [j 

Mrs. Hartle. There is no place for a supreme being or for God. [! 

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand that a man or woman in order to be \ 
a faithful Communist has to eliminate the possibility of there being 'd 
a supreme being ? | 

Mrs. Hartle. No, no. ', 

Mr. Doyle. Did I shape my question so as to confuse you ? I didn't ,J 
mean to. | 

Mrs. Hartle. No ; it doesn't confuse me. It is that the Communist jtl 
Party's position on the whole thing is quite confusing and quite de- >■ 
ceptive. The Communist Party's position is that religious ideas 'v\ 
and sentiment should not be combated head on, but that people, as || 
people learn about dialectical and historical materialism as they come -i, 
idto the party and as they learn about this scientific theory, they will 1. 
supplant any harmful ideas that they have brought with them, any n 
incorrect ideas; and it is not a head-on combating of religion in the il 
Communist Party. There is no direct campaign foi- the spread of 
atheism in the Communist Party in the United States — no campaign 
for agnosticism. Any strong expressions along this line, strong atheist ; i 
expressions are considered leftist — leftish — and that is the attitude of ] 
the Communist Party and the way it practices in the United States | 
of America, ; 

Mr. Sciierer. Isn't the reason for this that the Communists ex-iv| 
perienced early in Russia that the religious ideals were so imbedded 
in the minds and hearts of people that they couldn't combat them 
head on? Therefore they learned that lesson, as I say, early, and have 
not opposed outwardly the religious beliefs of individuals because 
tliey may reject communism if they did? And as you point out, if 
they understand dialectical materialism, they will eventually lose 
their present religious beliefs. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6115 

Mrs. Hartle, I was never told or never read in the Communist 
Party why this change of attitude was different in the Communist 
Party of the U. S. A. I had my own opinions on this subject. I 
thought they were correct Communist opinions — that in old Russia 
there was a state church and that this was an oppressive church, and 
that when Lenin and the other Bolshevik leaders were berating the 
church over there they weren't berating it so much for the religion part 
of it as for the oppressive part of it. That is what I believed as a 
Communist. 

And that in this country, since there is no state church, since there is 
no religious oppression in our country, since there is religious freedom 
in our country, the Communist Party doesn't have to fight on this 
ground. 

That was more or less the understanding that I had as a Communist. 

Mr. Jacksox. Mr, Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Lenin himself was very blunt on the question of re- 
ligion, wasn't he ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is true. 

Mr. Jackson, Lenin set forth that the spread of atheism must be 
their chief task. Wliile that may not have been the practice as far as 
the party of the United States was concerned, that certainly would 
have been the doctrine of any dedicated Marxist, would it not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Those words of Lenin are read by anyone attempting 
to master the theory of Marxism-Leninism, Sooner or later you come 
across them some place. 

Mr, Jackson. And in due course that would become a part of the 
philosophy or doctrine of a dedicated Marxist, would it not, if he took 
up the works of Lenin as his guide, as his general directive ? It would 
seem to me that the words in themselves are unmistakable as to the 
intent of Lenin and the subsequent leaders of the Communist state 
with reference to religion generally. 

Mr. ScHERER. But wasn't the Communist Party smart enough, Mr. 
Jackson, in the United States, to realize that they couldn't possibly sell, 
because as she said, we had religious freedom in this country — couldn't 
sell the masses on that doctrine of Lenin ? 

Mr. Jackson. I think that is entirely possible. 

Mr. ScHERER. And they avoided a head-on clash with the religious 
ideas of people in this country. 

Mrs. Hartle. That is the only explanation that I could possibly 
find as a Communist — was when Lenin and Marx talked about religion 
being the opium of the people and then to read what the Communist 
Party of the United States has to say and wliat I have been taught in 
school, the only way that I could figure it out was using a little of this 
dialectic. 

You know every situation is different in every country, et cetera, 
et cetera, and what was really needed very badly in Russia was not 
needed so badly over here. 

Mr. ScHERER. Rather than clash head on with the religious teach- 
ings of the people, they attempted by this dialectical materialism to 
neutralize the effect of religion upon the masses in this country ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct. 



6116 COMJMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Clardy. They at least don't try to teach their members that 
they should be religious and go to church and should regard religion 
as something important ? They don't do that, do they ? 

Mrs. Haktle. No; the Communist Party worries very little about 
your ability to get to church, because the most important meetings 
and conferences always take place on Sunday, usually beginning at 
10 a. m. and lasting until almost any time in the evening ; so that the 
Communist Party worries very little about your being able to go to 
church or to meditate or for workers even to rest on Sunday. 

Mr. Jackson. During church hours is the time when the faithful 
are out peddling the Sunday Worker, isn't it ? 

Mrs. Hartle. It used to be Red Sunday in the early 1930's— Red 
Sunday is going out with Red literature. That practice has been 
somewhat abandoned. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, could you give us further information 
now on the Communist Party of the United States of America's posi- 
tion in this field of religion ? 

Mrs. Hartle. People with religious beliefs may be and are recruited 
into the Communist Party, and they may retain their ideas for them- 
selves as long as they do not evince themselves in any anti-Communist 
expressions. 

I believe I have covered that religion, being the opium of the people, 
is always explained as pertaining to the situation of the Russian state 
church, the Greek Orthodox Church, and this makes it sound very 
strange to people and they can easily understand why Lenin opposed 
this strange-sounding church. 

I have never heard a Communist combat the statement that com- 
munism is Christianity in practice, and that statement is often made 
by people. 

But according to fundamental Communist theory, this is not cor- 
rect ; it is not correct, according to Communist theory, that communism 
is Christianity in practice. 

(At this point Mr. Velde left the hearing room.) 

Mrs. Hartle. The Communist Party contends there is freedom of 
religion in Soviet Russia and that along with this freedom is also the 
freedom to be nonbelievers. That is the way it is explained in the 
Communist Party in the United States of America. 

Now once in a while the question is put that there are big campaigns 
for atheism in Soviet Russia. But in the Communist Party no one 
talks about these campaigns. That is just reactionary propaganda 
that any such campaigns are taking place. 

But the Communist Party does say that there is freedom of religion 
in Soviet Russia and there is freedom not to believe — it is freedom all 
the way around. That is the Communist Party of the United States 
of America's position. 

Mr. ScHERER. They have avoided, for the reasons we have been talk- 
ing about, a frontal assault upon the church ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is exactly correct. There is no frontal assault 
on the church or religion. 

Mr. ScHERER. The attempt is to infiltrate and, as I said before, neu- 
tralize the effect of religion on the masses ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is true. And I believe that many people can be 
successfully deceived by tliis deceptive method. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6117 

Mr. ScHERER. And there is no frontal assault upon the church be- 
cause they understand, the Communist conspiracy is smart enough to 
understand, that they cannot succeed at the present moment with a 
frontal assault upon the church. If they felt that they could succeed, 
then there would be this frontal assault upon the church, as there was 
in the early days in Kussia — the persecution of the priests, the burn- 
ing and destruction of church property ; that did not succeed in Kussia, 
so they tried in the indirect method, as I understand it. 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. All of the reasons for it I am really not able to 
give, but I do know that this is what the Communist Party does. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you estimate, please, the success of the Com- 
munist Party in this district, in this area, in the religious field ? 

Mrs. Hartue. Well, my estimate of that success is that Northwest 
district of the Communist Party has had almost no result in the reli- 
gious field. There has been no organized attempt along this line in 
this district. From time to time on some front issue an effort has been 
made to interest ministers and other clergymen to back the issue along 
with some other people of standing in the community, but these con- 
tacts have now been followed up with the idea of recruiting into the 
Communist Party, like in other so-called mass or front work. 

Mr. KuNziG, Would you explain to us this very interesting point 
involving front organizations ? Are you suggesting that decent people 
of the community and ministers, who have not participated in any 
Communist Party activities, might be deluded into going along with 
their front without knowing what it is ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I certainly do mean to say that. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you explain that in some detail, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, especially on what I would call their peace cam- 
paigns. Every so often there is a situation in history where the Com- 
munist Party becomes the party that is interested in peace instead of 
war ; and especially when these campaigns are on the agenda, attempts 
viill be made to get representatives of the clergy to sign peace petitions 
or peace declarations along the particular line of policy that the Com- 
munist Party is interested in. 

The Communists know that religious leaders and church members 
are interested in pieace and are devoted to it and often approach the 
clergy in order to hook them in on the basis that they really want 
peace, they want to find some way to have peace in the world, and 
the Communist offer looks presentable, it looks all right to them on 
the surface, and they will lend their names to it. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you have any knowledge or any information in- 
volving an effort made in this area to involve ministers in the Rosen- 
berg case? 

Mrs. Hartle. There was a considerable effort that I was able to see 
after I came back from Seattle of a Rosenberg committee attempting 
to get a lot of ministers to sign a petition protesting whatever partic- 
ular stage that case was in, and I overheard some discussion of people 
whom I had formerly known as Communists that something went 
I amiss, somebody put a lot of names down and then it seems that they 
were not consulted .and that the ministers, some of them, repudiated 
and others had not signed. 

At least, what I got out of what I heard was that the Rosenberg 
committee was trying pretty hard to get a lot of ministers to back up 
the Rosenberg case and had had some success. 



6118 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Does the Communist Party attach any significance to 
expressions about civil liberties, and so forth, made by men of good 
will? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, it does attach quite a great deal of significance 
to expressions about civil liberties or on the question of peace, and 
especially of course — not especially, but when these expressions tied 
into the Communists' hands and into the hands of their policy. These 
expressions will then be reprinted in the Communist press and be 
quoted by Communist leaders as evidence of the broad support to the 
issue and will be used to brace up the spirits of the members many 
times, giving them the feeling that many people believe in this issue 
and are strong for it — "We are right in being for it," and "You, as a 
Communist, are right in being for it, too." 

It is one of the things, I might as well mention here, as some place 
else, that this whole deceptive program of the Communist Party 
deceives especially its own new members, as well as it does the public, 
and sometimes the older ones, too. 

Mr, Clardy. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire on that point? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardt. Witness, every now and then the press will carry 
stories from some religious organizations attacking this committee 
or attacking other committees investigating the subject of communism 
and Communists. 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Clardt. I wonder if you have any knowledge as to whether 
or not efforts by the Communist Party to stir up that sort of thing took 
place out here ? We found it in a number of other places. 

Mrs. Hartle. I do know here that as the district leader of the 
Communist Party I have used and I have heard other district leaders 
use statements by church organizations attacking the Velde committee 
as proof of the inequity of the Velde committee undermining the Con- 
stitution and the Bill of Rights and our democratic form of govern- 
ment, yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Then when a national church figure or any group of 
churchmen^ and conceivably in all innocence, attacks, let us say, the 
House Committee on Un-American Activities, there is general rejoic- 
ing among the Communists, is that the case ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There is rejoicing, and it quite fully utilized. 

Mr. Jackson. And reprinted and broadcast to the extent possible ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Eeprinted and used in speeches and sometimes it is , 
re))rinted in tliousands of little folders and distributed around. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you have any specific examples of that that you j 
could quote to the committee ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Offhand I cannot think of a specific example, but Ij 
do know that the Daily Worker and the Peoples World, the Northwest 
edition, will have a number of examples of just this type of thing, f 
where they have reprinted such statements by clergymen or church 
groups, and of course tlie same thing is done if a labor group does^ 
the same thing. 

Mr. Jackson. Or any other group ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Or any other group. As long as that plays in the' 
Communist Party policy, and in this case, of course, the Communist 
Party oppQses this committee because it exposes their aims and 
activities. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6119 

Mr. ScHERER. Isn't it a fact that most of what you have been telling 
IS originates with the Communist Party, the basic statements, the basic 
ittacks upon the investigating committees of Congress ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I think that most of the attacks do. 

Mr. ScHERER. And then other well-meaning people sometimes parrot 
hose statements. 

Mrs. Hartle. I think that is correct — that most of the attacks origi- 
nate from the Communist Party, but some of them don't ; some of them 
ion't. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. J. Edgar Hoover recently said something along this 
ine. I will not attempt to use his exact language, but he said that good 
people — and, of course, we must include the clergy and the ministry in 
hat — but good people many times better serve the Communist cause 
han the Communists can do themselves, because of the cloak of re- 
spectability which surrounds them. 

Would you agree that Mr. Hoover is right in that connection? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that can be true ; that is true in some situations. 

Mr. Clardy. Would it be your thought then that all people, all good 
people especially, be supercareful before they begin taking the anti- 
mti-Communist line, so to speak ; in other words, look before they leap 
into that sort of thing for fear that they may be doing exactly what 
Mr. Hoover has pointed out^ — help the Communists more than the 
Communists can help themselves? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, it would seem that all peoples should pay very 
close attention to what they do politically or they may run into very 
grievous error, and I don't know of any better example than myself. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. May I join this philosophical discussion by reading a 
paragraph from the Communist manifesto published in 1848? It is 
very short. I quote it as quoted from the same American Bar Asso- 
ciation booklet which I have referred to before this morning. It is 
quoted from a booklet of the Communist Party entitled "Toward a So- 
viet America," published in 1932 by William Z. Foster, national chair- 
man of the Communist Party in the United States, in which he said : 

The Soviet court system will be simple, speedy, and direct. The judges chosen 
jy the corresponding Soviets will be responsible to them. The Supreme Court, 
nstead of being dictatorial and virtually legislative, as in the United States, will 
)e purely juridical and entirely under the control of the central executive com- 
mittee. The civil and criminal code will be simplified, the aim being to proceed 
directly and quickly to a correct decision. In the acute stages of the revolutionary 
struggle special courts to fight the counter-revolution will probably be necessary. 
The pests of lawyers will be abolished — 

That means me 

the courts will be class courts, definitely warring against the class enemies of 
he toilers. They will make no hypocrisy like capitalist courts, courts which, 
while pretending to deal out equal justice to all classes, in reality are instruments 
3f the capitalist state for the repression and exploitation of the toiling masses. 

Mr. Jackson. That spells trouble for the committee and for the 
Nvitness comes the revolution. 
Mr. Doyle. And for the lawyers. 
Mr. Jackson. And for the lawyers. 
Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 



6120 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, can you give us the names of any of the 
people whom you knew to be members of the Communist Party who 
were ministers in this area ? And I want you to be specific. If they 
did not have churches, for example, let us be very sure that we get that 
into the record. 

Mrs. Hartle. I can recall only 3 persons who were ministers ever 
being a member of the Communist Party in this whole district, and 
those 3 persons, none of them had a church or were practicing in a 
church. 

Mr. KuNziG. But they were ministers? 

Mrs. Hartle. But they w^ere ministers. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, do I understand that your testimony 
is that none of these three ministers, as you have described them, were 
active in the ministry in any way ? 

Mrs. Hartle. None of them were active in the ministry. 

Mr. Dotle. How long had it been since any of them had been active 
in any branch of the ministry ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I don't know how long. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I just want to preface Mrs. Hartle's 
remark by making it clear in my own thinking that I would hesitate to 
classify a person as a minister unless he was a minister. 

Mr. KuNziG. I think, Mr. Doyle, we made that very clear, and I 
preface my remarks by saying that if they had no churcli it should be 
clearly mentioned, and it was mentioned that they had no churches, but 
the witness has said that they were ministers and I think she will state 
that there were ministerial functions connected with them in the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask this question of the witness ? Is it known to 
you personally whether or not these three people or any that you are 
about to mention were ever actually ordained as ministers of the 
Gospel, or did they just assume their name "minister" or "reverend," if 
you know ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I don't know. 

Mr. Doyle. Then, Mr. Chairman, if the witness does not know that 
they were ever actually ordained ministers, I hesitate about the pro- 
priety of having the witness attempt to identify them as ministers of 
the Gospel for the purpose of this hearing. 

Mr. Scherer. Let her identify them as individuals and tell what 
they did. 

Mr. Jackson. I think that is the proper course of action. Let us 
hear the testimony relative to their activities within the Communis 
Party and then perhaps we can arrive at some resolution. 

Mr. Doyle. Manifestly, the purpose of my question and statement 
was to get at the facts, whatever they are, before the witness testifies. I| 
just assumed from the way she started that she was identifying them as 
ministers, which apparently is not the fact so far as her knowledge is 
concerned. 

Mr. Jackson. Let us proceed to hear the testimony of the witness or 
this point and we will see what develops from that testimony. 

Mr. Clardy. We don't want to overlook the fact that Ave liavel 
already had testimony that the Communist Party has selected indi- 
viduals and has had them go through theological seminaries and ac- 
tually take positions as preachers. As you know, we have had ther 



» 



1 



COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6121 

identified in past hearings. Perhaps these might fall in that same cate- 
gory, I don't know. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you continue, please, giving the names — the 
three names that you started mentioning? 

Mrs. Hartle. The persons whom I have known who have repre- 
sented themselves to me and to others as ministers were Reverend 
Clinton Redwell, who was a Negro minister and lived in the Duwamish 
Bend housing project. 

Mr. KuNziG. What period of time was this that you knew Reverend 
Redwell? 

Mrs. Hartle, That was in the period of about the middle 1940's — 
around the last part of the war, right after the war. 

(At this point Mr. Velde returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Was he the man you mentioned to me that actually 
and quite surprisingly enough gave prayers at some times in Com- 
munist meetings? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; he did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you describe that, please? 

Mrs. Hartle. He thought it was a good idea to start the Communist 
Party branch meeting with a prayer, and he did so on several occa- 
sions, and there were no objections from anyone there — any of the 
other Communists and none from myself on him doing so. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. With respect to this gentleman, it seems that Mr. 
Doyle is correct. It sounds like he is one of those self-annointed minis- 
ters. 

Mrs. Hartle. I am not aware of what the situation might be. He 
represented himself to me and to others as a minister and used the 
lame Reverend Redwell. 

Mr. Scherer. I understand. This is not a criticism of the witness 
Dn may part at all. 

Mr. Doyle. Or on mine, either. 
., Mr. KuNziG. Will you continue with the other two, please? 

Mrs. Hartle. Another minister that I knew of his being in the 
Oommunist Party was a Reverend King, a member of the Stadium 
Homes housing project branch. He was also a Negro minister, and I 
inew of his membership through an officer of the branch there who 
old me about it, and said there they were having a great deal of diffi- 
ulty in integrating him into the Communist Party ; although he be- 
longed to it and he was having much difficulty in being integrated into 
my activity. 

Mr. Scherer. What did he do for a living besides claiming to be 
i minister? 

Mrs. Hartle. I understood that he was working in the shipyards. 
That is what I understood at the time — that he was not an acting 
ninister because he was working in the shipyards during the labor 
shortage during the war. 

Mr. KuNziG. He had no church, did he ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He had no church. 

Mr. Scherer. I think he also belonged to the same classification 
hat Mr. Doyle mentioned. 



6122 COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle. And the only other person that I ever knew that was 
a minister and used the title "Reverend" in the Communist Party was 
Rev. L. H. Edmiston, and I knew him. as a member of the Communist 
l^arty in a club in the 43d legislative district when I first came to 
Seattle. I have attended branch meetings and I knew him as a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party in Seattle up until around the middle 
1940's, at which time he went to Tacoma, and I believe that is where 
he is now living — in Tacoma. 

Mr. ScHERER, Then in conclusion, in discussing this field, it would 
be correct to say, would it not, that the Communist Party attempts to 
infiltrate religion, the Communist Party's efforts to get any minister! 
io do the work of religion as Communist Party members, has been 
infinitesimal in the area with which you are acquainted ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is quite correct. 

Mr. Velde. And, Mrs. Hartle, I have not heard all of your testi- 
mony on this subject, but were either of the so-called ministers that 
you identified ordained ministers? 

Mrs. Hartle. None of them were. 

Oh, excuse me. I thought you meant practicing. I don't kno'w 
whether they were ordained or not ; I don't know enough about their 
background to know that. 

Mr. Velde. But at the time you knew them as Communists they 
had no church, had they ? 

Mrs. Hartle. They had no church. 

Mr. Velde. Thank you. 

Mr. Jackson. Did any or all of them perform any of the usual 
functions of the ministry, such as burials or worse yet, marriages? 

Mr. ScHERER. One of them made ships. 

Mr. Jackson. Well, it occurs to me, if anyone was married by them 
they had better investigate their present status. It might be a little 
uncertain or indefinite. 

But do you know whether or not they did perform the functions of 
the ministry ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The only functions of the ministry that I am 
acquainted with with either of these three persons is that Reverend 
Redwell said prayers in our branch meetings and that Reverend 
Edmiston said funeral sermons sometimes for the Washington Old 
Age Pension Union. And those are the only activities along those 
lines that I am acquainted with. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. Mrs. Hartle, isn't it a fact that the Communist Party 
made no effort to enlist the members of the clergy in the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; that is a fact. I think that if you wish my 
opinion or understanding on that — it is that to recruit ministers into 
the Communist Party is considered a pretty unfruitful proposition. 

Mr. Scherer. They work through front organizations, do they not? 

Mrs. Hartle. Rather they work through fronts because — well, to 
put it very bluntly, the Communist Party will tell you that a member 
as a minister can be an awful headache, especially if he is still a 
minister. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, before we close for the lunch hour, there 
are a few questions that I want to cover, a few identifications that I 
want to go into. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6123 

Did you ever know a Dr. Richard L. Nelson as a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. What was his profession ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He was a dentist. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you tell us where he lives or any further identify- 
ing^ facts about him ? , -.-r-r i tt i i • 

Mrs. Hartle. He lives, I believe, in Kirkland, Wash. He has his 

dental office there and practices there. 

Mr. KuNziG. When did you know him to be a member of the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I have known him to be a member of the Communist 
Party from at least the middle 1940's up to the time that I left Seattle 

in 1950. 
Mr. KuNziG. Can you tell us any of his activities in the party or 

what he did ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Some of his activities in the party, I_ know, were in 
the legislative field, in election campaigns or supporting candidates, 
the type of work like in the Progressive Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. But you knew Dr. Richard L. Nelson, of your own 
knowledge, to be a Communist Party member ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Ktjnzig. How about Jeremiah William Tyler ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew him to be a Communist Party member. ^ I 
knew him as a member of the waterfront section of the Communist 
Party in the latter part of the 1940's and as being a leading person 
or officer in one of the maritime unions. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Do you have any address or any further identifying 
features ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, I don't know how else to further try to identify 
him except to describe him, because I did not know where he lived. 
The waterfront section meetings were held probably downtown. Some 
of them were held at my own house. But where he lived 

Mr. KuNziG. He was in your own house then, was he ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; he has been in my house. 

Mr. KuNZiG. As a Communist Party member at meetings? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson". At closed meetings of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Closed meetings. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did he give street speeches and things of that type? 

Mrs. Hartle. He did speak at the Communist organized street meet- 
ings down here at about Main and Occidental — the ones organized by 
the waterfront section. 

However, it is my imderstanding that he didn't speak there as a 
Communist but as a representative of his union. 

Mr. KuNziG. So that the people not knowing of course that he was 
a Communist, but thinking he was there as a union man, 

Mrs. Hartle. That is right. 

Mr. Ktjnzig. But he was doing the work of the Communist Party, 
is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is right. 

Mr. KtnsrziG. Did you know a Margaret Backlund Irving ? 
I Mrs. Hartle. I do not know about the Irving part of it, but I did 
I know a Margaret Backlund. Margaret Backlund was a member of 
jthe waterfront section of the Communist Party in Seattle, was an 



6124 COIVOIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

officer in that section. She lived at the same address tliat I did for a 
time in about 1947 on Beacon Hill, lived in the same house that I did, 
the same apartment building that I did, and I knew her well as a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know a Robert Plumb ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I knew him as a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. What activity in the Communist Party did he special- 
ize in ? 

Mrs. Haetle. About the time that I left Seattle and for some time 
before that, he was a section organizer in the north King region of 
the Communist Party. Before that, he was a member of the Com- 
munist Party in the south King region and lived in West Seattle. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did he have anything to do with youth organizing, to 
your knowledge ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. KuNziG. How about Lenzie Shellman ? " 

Mrs. Hartle. Lenzie Shellman I knew as a member of the Com- 
munist Party. He was a member in the central region of the Com- 
munist Party. He was a Negro member. I knew him also as a Com- 
munist in the machinists' union. 

Mr. KuNziG. What period of time would you say this was, Mrs. 
Hartle? 

Mrs. Hartle. This was in the period just before I left Seattle. 

Mr. KuNziG. TV^ien was that, so that we may get the record straight. 

Mrs. Hartle. 1948—1949-50. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, I have one more name here. Edward Friel. 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew him as a member of the Communist Party 
from the time that I came to Seattle, and as far as I know, he was still 
a member when I left in 1950. I knew him when I first came to Seattle 
as a functionary, because I attended functionaries' meetings with him 
at that time. I knew him in about 1943 as a full-time organizer for the 
industrial section of the Communist Party for a period of about a year. 

I have known him as being a member of the painters' branch of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Velde. I should like before we recess for the noon hour to say 
again that if anyone within the sound of my voice has been mentioned 
by Mrs. Hartle and cares to come in to this committee and admit, deny, 
or explain the facts as testified to by Mrs. Hartle, they are certainly 
invited to do so. 

Also, if there has been any mistake in identity in any case whatso- 
ever, we would appreciate the persons affected getting in touch with 
our counsel or a member of our staff so that the matter may be 
straightened out. 

Now, do the members have anything else before we recess ? 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I have one very short paragraph which I 
think it would be very appropriate to read. It again quotes Mr. Lenin 
on page 11 of the booklet referred to. I quote : 

We are living not merely in a state but in a system of states ; and it is incon- 
ceivable that the Soviet Republic should continue to exist for a long period side 
by side with the imperialist states. Ultimately one or the other must conquer. 
Meanwhile a number of terrible clashes between the Soviet Republic and the 
bourgeois states is inevitable. This means that if the proletariat, as the ruling 
class, wants to and will rule, it must prove it also by military organization. 

(> 
4 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6125 



I think it is very appropriate to read that into the record and for 
the hearing of our listeners, in view of the statement made by the 
witness on the Duclos letter. 

Mr, Velde. Thank you, Mr. Doyle. 

With that, the committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock. 

(Whereupon at 11 : 49 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at2p. m.)i 

• 1 Testimony taken in the afternoon session on this day is printed in pt. 4 of this series. 



INDEX TO PART 2 



Individuals 

Page 

Alexander, Ed -6069 

Astley, Ted 6091 

Backlund, Margaret (see also Irving, Margaret Backlund) 6123 

Bowen, Dortha ' 6067 

Bradley, George 6094 

Brooks, Carl 6093 

Browder, Earl 6065, 6069, 6100 

Camozzi, Marion (see also Kinney, Marion Camozzi) 6072 

Camozzi, Robert 6072 

I Campbell, Ray 1 6094, 6095 

j Canwell 6080 

I Carlseu, Ann (see also Ryan, Ann) 6091 

I Ceis, rbilip Luther 6069, 6070, 6071 

I Clark, Tom 6085,6094 

jCoe, Earl 6085 

I Cole, Merwin 6092, 6094, 6099 

I Coley, Edith 6092 

: Coley, Ward 6094 

' Cumming, Al 6066, 6072 

I Cumming, William 6096 

JDanielson, Jean (see also Schuddakopf, Jean Danielson) 6075,6091 

Daschbach, JoIiti 6086 

Davis, Dorothy 6096 

Davis, John 6091 

|DeLacy, Hugh 6111, 6112 

iDennett, Eugene V 6075-6077,6080,6083,6084 

Dobbins, William K 6094 

,Dodd, William 60. 9 

j Donaldson, Hallie 6093 

Duclos, Jacques 6100, 6102, 0104, 6125 

Eby, Harold 6092 

Edmiston, L. H 6122 

Egroth, Fair Taylor 6091 

Espe, Conrad 6094 

Erickson, Jesse 6078, 6084 

Fletcher, Jess 6094, 6099 

Foster, William Z 6069,6086,6100,6119 

^'rankfeld, I'hil 6074 

''riel, Edward 6124 

i'ugl, Harry 6091 

Settings, Bill 6103, 6107 

iillette, Phyl 6091, 6092 

lagluud, Margaret 6070 

Jail, Dorothea 6055-6093, 6089 

Jail, Ralph 6069, 6070 

Jarris, Calvin 6066 

lartle, Barbara 6055-6125 (testimony) 

Jatten, Jean 6090 

lealey, John 6067 

Jester, Lorraine—^ 6095 

luff, Henry 6062, 6065, 6069, 6086, 6101, 6109 

lull, Irene 6078, 6091 

rving, Margaret Backlund {see also Backlund, Margaret) 6123 

i 



<'i 



ii INDEX 

Page 

Jackins, Carl Harvey 6067, 6068 

James, Florence Beau 6092 

Jarvis, Elsie 6090 

Johnson, Hazel 6092 

Johnston, Harold 6094 

Kerr, Frank 6094, 6095 

King, Reverend 6121 

Kinney, Glen 6094, 6095 

Kinney, Marion Camozzi (see also Camozzi, Marion) 6072-6074 

Kirkwood, M. (Mel) W 6082-6084,6092,6093 

Kirkwood, Trudy 6092 

Krahl, Robert 6066 

Larsen, Karley (alias Wood) 6099, 6107-6109 

Lee, Odell 6084- 

Long, Bill 6077, 6078 

Lovestone, Jay 6077 

McCannon, Hazel 6092 

McGrath, J. Howard 6084, 6094 

Mutch, William 6092 

Nelson, Richard L 6123 

Ottenheimer, A. M. (Albert) 6092 

Parry, Will 6074, 6075 

Pennock, William J 6095,6096 

Pettus, Terry 6074, 6075 

Phillips, H. J 6092 

Plumb, Robert 6124 

Porter, Ruth 6078 

Rabbitt, Tom 0097, 6111, 6112 

Rappaport, Morris 6057, 6073 

Redwell 6122 

Reuther, Walter P 6103,6104 

Robel, Gene 6094, 6095 

Rosenberg, Ethel 6117 

Rosenberg, Julius 6117 

Ryan, Ann {see also Carlsen, Ann) 6091 

Ryan, Jan (Mrs. Pat Ryan) 6090 

Ryan, Pat 6090 

Salvus, Mary 6092 

Schuddakopf, Jean Danielson {see also Danielson, Jean) 6075, 6091 

Shellman, Lenzie 6124 

Snyder, Eleanor 6085 

Starkovich, George 6067, 6089 

Sutton, Winnie {see also Thompson, Winnie) 6090 

Taylor, Fair 0091 

Taylor, James (Jim) 6085 

Thompson, Winnie {see also Sutton, Winnie) 6090 

Thorez, Maurice - 6101 

Trotsky 6077 

Tyler, Jeremiah William -___ 6123 

Van Lydegraf 6069 

Van Orman, J. H 6057, 6076 

Wilkins, Laura 6090, 6091 

Williams, Foster - 6078 

Wood, Mr. {see also Larsen, Karley) 6109 



Organizations 



II 



A. F. of L 6052, 6083 

Aeronautical Industrial District, Lodge No. 751 6093 

American Bar Association 6100, 6106, 6119 

American Civil Liberties Union - 6086 

American League Against War and Fascism ' 6052 

American Youth for Democracy 6067 

Blaine Peace Arch peace demonstration 6068 

Building Service Employees Union 6091, 6092 

Building Service Employees Union, Local 6 6094 



INDEX iii 

Page 

CIO 6083 

California State Bar Association 6054 

Central Labor Council of Spokane 6110 

Civil Rights Congress 6086 

Cominform 6102 

Communist International 6101 

Communist Party : 

Washington State 6109 

King County Region GQGG, 6067, 6078, 6084, 6091 

King County Region Repertory Branch 6092 

North End "Section 6072 

Northwest District 6095 

Seattle 6057, 6069 

Holly Park Club 6090 

North King Region 6091 

Queen Anne Branch 6090 

Rainier Vista Branch 6090 

Renton Highlands Branch 6091 

Waterfront Section 6123 

Spokane 6057,6073 

Stadium Homes Housing Project Branch 6121 

Steel Club 6075 

West Seattle Section, Alki Branch 6069, 6070, 6092, 6096 

West Seattle, South King Region 6124 

Congress of American Women 6092 

Department of State 6085 

FBI 6058-6060, 6071, 6079, 6109 

Friends of the Soviet Union 6057 

Frontier Book Store, Seattle 6072-6074, 6078 

Independent Progressive Party 6091, 6123 

Independent Progressive Party of Washington 6108, 6112 

International Woodworkers of America 6108 

King Broadcasting Co 6072 

i Labor Youth League 6067, 6068 

National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 2 6067 

N^ational Lawyers Guild 6065 

s'^orthwest Congress Against War and Fascism 6052 

Pacific Northwest Labor School {see also Seattle Labor School) 6084, 

6087, 6088, 6090-6095 

Seattle Bar Association 6054 

Seattle Labor School {see also Pacific Northwest Labor School). 6090, 6093, 6094 

Socialist Party 6057, 6097 

Socialist Workers Party 6076, 6077, 6085 

5upreme Court of the United States 6054, 6106, 6119 

["eamsters' Union 6110 

JAW-CIO 6103, 6104 

Tniversity of Washington 6067, 6091, 6092 

Vashington Commonwealth Federation 6095 

Vashington Old Age Pension Union {see also Washington Pension Union) _ 6122 
Vashington Pension Union {see also Washington Old Age Pension 

Union) 6095-6097 

i^ashington State College 6056 

i^ashington State Labor Defense Committee 6102, 6103, 6107 

Workers Alliance 6110 

Workers Book Store, Spokane 6057, 6073 

oung Communist League 6067, 6069 

Publications 

faily People's World 6071, 6074, 6075, 6118 

i»aily Worker 6057, 6071, 6072, 6083, 6100, 6101, 6116, 6118 

|ew World 6088 

tolitical Affairs 6072 

Jeattle Post-Intelligencer 6072 

3kane Woman 6056 

o 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA— Part 3 (SEATTLE) 

(Testimony of Barbara Hartle — Sec. 2) 



HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



JUNE 16, 17, 18, AND 19, 1954 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 



INCLUDING INDEX 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
48069 WASHINGTON : 1954 



^ / 



Boston Public Li'orary 
Superintendent of Documents 

OCT 2 7 1954 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives 

HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois, Chairman 

BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania 

DONALD L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri 

KIT CLARDY, Michigan CLYDE DOYLE. California 

GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee 

Robert L. Kunzig, Counsel 

Frank S. Tavennke, Jr., Counsel 

Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk 

Raphael I. NixOn, Director of Research 

Courtney E. Owens, Chief Investigator 

n 



CONTENTS 



Page 

June 16, 1954, testimony of Barbara Hartle 6127 

June 17, 1954, testimony of Barbara Hartle 6157 

June 18, 1954, testimony of Barbara Hartle 6175 

June 19, 1954, testimony of Barbara Hartle 6189 

Index i 

III 



Public Law 601, T9th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 

Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 

753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America, in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
* * * * * * * 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- 
tee, is autliorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) tlie extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United 
States, (ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-Amer- 
ican propaganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin 
and attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our 
Constitution, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid 
Congress in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such in- 
vestigation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at sucli 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 83d CONGRESS 
House Resolution 5, January 3, 1953 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 
the following standing committees : 

******* 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

******* 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 



17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole, or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within tlie United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instisated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions In relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 

VI 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 

PACIFIC NOETHWEST AREA— Part 3 (SEATTLE) 

Testimony of Barbara Hartle— Sec. 2 



WEDNESDAY, JUNE 16, 1954 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 



Seattle^ Wash. 



PUBLIC HEARING 



The Committee on Un-American Activities continued its hearing at 
9 :40 a. m. in room 402, County-City Building, Seattle, Wash., Hon. 
Harold H. Velde (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde 
(chairman), Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, 
Clyde Doyle, and James B. Frazier, Jr. 

Staff memebrs present : Robert L. Kunzig, counsel ; Frank S. Taven- 
ner, Jr., counsel ; William A. Wlieeler, investigator ; and Thomas W. 
Beale, Sr., chief clerk. 

(Testimony of Lenzie Shellman and Jolin Robert Plumb, heard 
prior to Mrs. Hartle, is printed in pt. 5.) 

FURTHER TESTIMONY OP BARBARA HARTLE, ACCOMPANIED BY 
SPECIAL UNITED STATES DEPUTY MARSHAL DOROTHEA HALL 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, may we continue the testimony that you 
have been giving for the last 2 days ? 

I would like to ask you this question : Did you ever know anyone 
in the Communist Party by the name of Caughlan ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; 1 did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you please give the committee the benefit of 
your knowledge about Mr. Caughlan and explain in detail who he is, 
his position, his address, if you know, and so forth? 

Mrs. Hartle. For at least 5 years before I came to Seattle in 1942, 
I had gained the impression from reading the Communist press and 
from reports made by Morris Rappaport on his visits to the Spokane 
Communist Party meetings that John Caughlan was a close follower 
of the Communist Party line. I had viewed him in those days as an 
extremely able leader in the field of the mass activity of the Com- 
munist Party. 

After I came to Seattle, Andrew Remes, who was acting district 
organizer at that time 

Mr. KuNziG. You knew him, of course, to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party, did you not ? 

6127 



6128 COJVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle. And a member of the Communist Party — infomied 
me that I should file for divorce from my husband, John Hartle, the 
reason being the Communist Party was planning on running me in 
an election campaign as a candidate. 

I never found out why the divorce was necessary, but accepted fully 
that Kemes was giving me wise direction ; and Remes secured the serv- 
ices of John Cauo;hlan for me for my divorce and also once he inter- 
ceded with Caughlan in order to get him to speed it up. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever meet Caughlan at Communist Party 
meetings ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I later met with Caughlan at a Communist election 
campaign meeting in the New World office in 1944. This meeting was 
concerned mainly with support to the election campaign of Hugh 
DeLacy for Congress — his first election campaign. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, let us make this clear, Mrs. Hartle. Was this a 
Communist meeting or could it by any chance have been a Washing- 
ton Commonwealth Federation meeting? 

Mrs, Hartle. No; it could not have been a Washington Common- 
wealth Federation meeting or else I would not have been present. 
After I became a full-time organizer for the Communist Party, I 
was no longer a member of the WCF nor on its executive board or 
election campaign committee. 

Mr. KuNziG. So that there is no doubt in your mind that this meet- 
ing was a meeting of Communists ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, there is no doubt in my mind at all. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you continue, please, concerning Mr. Caughlan ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I have also been present at a King County Commu- 
nist Party functionary meeting at which John Caughlan and Barry 
Hatten spoke as attorneys for the Communist Party, giving advice on 
what to do about the Canwell committee subpenas. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Mr. Hatten to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, I did not. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you are just saying that he was there at this par- 
ticular meeting you are talking about ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. So you don't know Hatten as a member of the party 
but you do know Caughlan is a member of the party? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. I want to make sure that the record is very clear on 
that point. 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. In about 1948 Ralph Hall reported to the Com- 
munist Party district staff meeting that John Caughlan was circulat- 
ing rumors about him that he. Hall, was an FBI agent or working with 
the FBI. After the discussion, Ralph Hall filed charges against 
Caughlan. 

Later at another staff meeting, it was reported by Hall that Caugh- 
lan had backed down — that he. Hall, had oeen able to prove by some 
means that Caughlan had based his charges on a document that was 
false, that Hall was able to disprove whatever this document was was 
not valid and that Caughlan had to withdraw his charges. 

Mr. KuNzio. Now was it customary to bring charges against people 
within the Communist Party, charges against anyone who was not a 
member of the Communist Party ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6129 

Mrs. Hartle. No, that has not been customary in the Communist 
Party for one member to file charges against a person outside of the 
Communist Party. I do remember at the time that I first joined the 
Communist Party that that practice was talked about. I don't know 
of it ever being used ; but I know of it being talked about, that it is 
possible for the party to file charges against a non-Communist. But 
in all of my activity in the Communist Party I have never known of 
such charges being filed, excepting against a member of the Commu- 
nist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. And to conclude this portion of your testimony, there 
is no question in your mind whatsoever, sitting here testifying before 
your Congress under oath, that Caughlan was a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, there is no doubt in my mind. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. Did that membership continue up until the time that 
you went underground in 1950? 

Mrs. Hartle. No. I have no knowledge as to how long that mem- 
bership continued. 

Mr. Scherer. "Wliat was the latest date that you know of ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Of which I have personal, definite concrete knowl- 
edge — is the meeting in 1944, the election campaign meeting, and then 
the charges that were filed by Hall in about 1948. Those are concrete 
proof of membership. 

Mr. Scherer. And whether Mr. Caughlan is a member of the Com- 
munist Party today you do not know ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That I do not know. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask this question on that point? 

You say that Hall filed charges. Where did he file those charges? 
With whom ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I am sure that he filed them with the district review 
commission, but I was not there and did not see that; but he reported 
the filing of the charges to a district staff meeting. 

Mr. Doyle. A district meeting of what ? Was it a legislative body 
of public officials or was it a Communist Party board or a committee 
that these charges were filed with? Was it tlie Democratic Party or 
the Republican Party or the Communist Party or what ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The Communist Party, yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Here in Seattle ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Here in Seattle. The staff was composed of the offi- 
cers, the full time functionaries of the Communist Party in the office. 

Mr. Doyle. And were you on that committee ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you ever see those charges in writing, do you re- 
member ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I heard them read. 

Mr. Doyle. You heard them read where ? 

Mrs. Hartle, In the office of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Doyle. Where was that ofiice of the Communist Party — in 
Seattle at that time ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The office was on First Avenue. I have forgotten 
the address. 



6130 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Doyle. Do you remember who else was present at the time those 
charges were read ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I am sure that Henry Huff was present, that I was 
present, that Ralph Hall was present. Those three I am certain of and 
remember. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I have asked those specific questions 
about the time and place and who were present for the benefit of the 
attorney. I understand Mr. Caughlan was an attorney here yesterday 
or the day before with one or more of the witnesses, and I felt that as 
a member of the bar he should have the benefit of my going further 
into this question so that he might have knowledge by reason of this 
witness' statement under oath of what charges they were, where they 
were claimed to be filed and who was claimed to be present. I did 
that for his benefit as well as the benefit of the committee, so that it 
gives him an opportunity to know more in detail what is said about 
him as a member of the bar. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy, I think while we are taking it for granted, I don't think 
it is clearly in the record that the attorney Caughlan that you are talk- 
ing about is the attorney that appeared on behalf of several witnesses 
before this committee in this session. Is that the fact? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I believe that is the fact, but I have not seen 
him on television or in the room. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you turn around and look at the gentleman stand- 
ing up against the wall there and tell us if that is the man you have 
in mind? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that is the man that I have in mind. 

Mr, Clardy. Thank you. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mrs. Hartle, this morning in the testimony of 
one of the witnesses who appeared here previously, various parrotings 
of what this committee has come to recognize as the Communist Party 
line were made concerning the position of the Negro. 

I would like to ask you if you would go into this in some detail, ex- 
plaining to this committee — giving us the benefit of your knowledge 
on the position of the Communist Party with regard to the Negro in 
America. 

Mrs, Hartle. The Communist Party of the U. S. A.'s theoretical 
position on the Negro question is based on the international Communist 
position on the national question, and Joseph Stalin was the main for- 
mulator of the national question in the international Communist move- 
ment. 

According to Stalin, a nation is a stable community of people, his- 
torically evolved, having a community of territory, language, eco- 
nomic ties, and psychological makeup manifested in a community of 
culture. A nation, according to this theory, must have all of these 
characteristics, and if one of them is absent the people are not a full- 
blown nation. If a people do have all these characteristics, then ac- 
cording to communistic theory they have the right to self-determina- 
tion, the right to determine their own destiny and should have equal 
rights along with all other nations large and small. 

According to the Communist theory, the right to self-determination, 
however, does not decide in advance how this right is to be exercised. 

For example, in teaching Marxism-Leninism, the example of Fin- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6131 

land is often used. It is said that Soviet Russia could have retained 
Finland and forced it into the Socialist path, but since the people of 
Finland were evidently not of a mind to take this path that Russia, 
under Communist leadership, accorded Finland the right to separate 
and pursue its own path, even though Soviet Russia considered this 
path to be of disadvantage to the Finnish people, and of course, obvi- 
ouslv, to Soviet Russia. • • i <• 

Here the Communists say that they fully rely on the principle of 
the rio-ht of self-determination of a nation. From this it follows that 
those nations that are in the U. S. S. R. are there of their own accord. 
This approach is a part of the united front technique of communism. 

Mr. KuNziG . What was the position of the Communist Party here 
in the United States of America on tliis Negro question ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The Communist Party in the United States used to 
have a wrong position on the Negro question, but at a Comintern 
meeting in about 1929 it was decided that the Negro people m the 
black belt of the South are a nation, and this position was adopted by 
the Communist Party of the U. S. A. 

A great deal of theoretical work had to be done in the Communist 
Party of this country before this question was fully understood and 
soundly adopted, and even after that, during the Browder period, it 
was again on this question that the Communist Party of the U. S. A. 
strayed completely off the correct path, that is, the so-called correct 
path of Marxism-Leninism. 

Mr. Velde. Mrs. Hartle, I don't like to interrupt you but I have 
just been handed a circular together with a booklet that is being cir- 
culated by the North King County Communist Party, Post Office Box 
813, Seattle Wash. This is dated as late as May 26, 1954, and I should 
like to read the circular into the record at this point and then ask you 
a few questions about it. 

Today it is imperative that all Americans who are sincerely concerned about 
the grave difficulties facing our country join hands in reaching areas of agree- 
ment. It is in this spirit and as a first step that we are enclosing for your con- 
sideration a copy of a newly published draft program of the Communist Party. 
We especially call to your attention the section entitled, "What Has To Be Done 
on the Road Ahead," starting on page 15 of the program, which deals with key 
problems arising in the coming election period. Your expression of constructive 
criticism of this program is earnestly solicited and we urge, if you desire to do 
so, that you communicate your suggestion and ideas to us at the address given 
below. 

Sincerely, North King County Communist Party, Post Office Box 813, Seattle, 
Wash. 

Enclosed is a pamphlet entitled "The American Way." It is a draft program of 
the Communist Party. 

I cannot help but mention, too, that on the back of this booklet is 
a series of other pamphlets advertised, such as New Opportunities in 
the Fight for Peace and Democracy, 

At the bottom of the back page is the advice that you should buy 
the Daily Worker and the Sunday Worker, "labor's own fighting news- 
papers which battle daily for jobs, peace, and democracy, defend all 
labor interests, champion equal rights for Negro people," and those are 
published by Free Press, 35 East 12th Street, New York 3, N. Y. ^ 

I am bringing this to the attention of the record and to the attention 
of the people who are interested, because many people today think that 
the Communist Party is no longer organized or sufficiently organized. 



6132 COIVIMUNIST ACTR'ITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Certainly we members of the committee know that the organization is 
still strong. 

I want to ask you, Mrs. Hartle, if the Communist Party is still or- 
ganized in this Northwest section as a part3^ 

Mrs. HL\RTi.E. I would gather from the circulation of that material 
that it would be still organized, but I have no personal knowledge — I 
mean, I have had no personal contact with Communists as Communists 
for some period of time. 

Mr. Velde. Yes, I understand that. 

Mrs. Hartle. I have no doubt in my mind that the Communist 
Party is still organized. 

Mr. Velde. I want to note also, in line with the testimony that you 
are giving at the present time, that in this pamphlet, which is issued 
by the Communist Party, one of the sections deals with what should 
be done with the Negro people. I have not had the opportunity to 
read that section yet, but I presume that it is very much along the lines 
that you have been giving this committee in a very fine way. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. Not to further interrupt the train of thought of the 
witness but in line with the continuing organization of the Communist 
Party, that it has long been the policy of the party to establish echelons 
of leadership to insure that the party would continue to function under 
any given set of circumstances, including the indictment of any echelon 
of leadership under Smith Act charges, that is, in case they were con- 
victed there were others ready to move into the position of leadership 
and so on down the line ; is that not the fact ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; that is the case. Such precautions and prepara- 
tions were made in the Communist Party before I left it. 

Mr. Jackson. Further, the committee has abundant testimony to 
indicate that such precautions were taken to insure the continuing 
functioning of the party, putting away or aside of mimeographed ma- 
terials, of things that might be required in the event that the party was 
actually and legally forced to go underground? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; such preparations were also made. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you. 

Mr. Clardt. Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. I just wanted to add to what you said in referring to 
that pamphlet, the American Way, we might call attention to the 
people out here that it isn't just a local distribution here. If you re- 
ceived one, as I did, it was accompanied by a letter with Communist 
Party insignia at the top and signed among others by William Z. 
Foster, and frankly soliciting the Communist Party membership of 
everyone to whom it was sent. 

I have talked to a number of Congressmen. I have talked to a gi'eat 
many newspaper men and others and find that it has been generally 
circulated all over the country. I remarked on that merely to demon- 
strate that Mr. Jackson is correct and that they are extremely anxious 
and are apparently starting on a nationwide membership campaign 
right now in circulating this. 

Mr. Doyle. You don't mean that you got one through the mail, 
too? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6133 

Mr. Clardy. I sure did. I got two of them, as a matter of fact. 
And the taxpayer is paying for that distribution, because it comes 
under second-class mailing privileges. I got a bill to make them at 
least pay first-class postage. 

Mr. Velde. I want to stress the fact that even though these gentle- 
men receive such trash in the mail, they don't have any connection 
with the Communist Party. 

Mr. ScHERER. I am glad you made that clear. 

Mr. Velde. I want to say that as far as the person who handed me 
this is concerned, I am satisfied that that person is perfectly loyal. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Doyle, they didn't slight you and fail to put you 
on the mailing list, did they ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes ; they did. 

Mr. Chairman, apropos of what the committee membership just 
brought to the attention of Mrs. Hartle, I think Mrs. Hartle that you 
yourself testified yesterday, did you not, that when you went under- 
ground and became a waitress under an assumed name, you were then 
Being placed in line, under your instructions, to take over as a matter 
of Communist Party leadership in Seattle in the event that your 
Fuperiors in the Communist Party for any reason were taken out of 
the activity ? Is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I was sent underground as reserve leadership to 
take the place of leadership that might be arrested under the Smith 
Act or that might through any other circumstance not be able to func- 
tion and to be sure that the Communist Party has leadership in the 
State of Washington. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask this question? How far underground did 
you go? By that I mean — by that I mean, Mrs. Hartle, when you 
went that far underground, were you one of the hard core, what is 
described as hard core, in the Pacific Northwest area ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was certainly expected to be by the Communist 
Party and I think that 99 or 100 percent of the time you were one of 
the hard core. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, your testimony that you have given us 
and which you will give us is out of the mouth of a person who was 
rated by the Communist Party as a member of the hard core Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Without a doubt. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. 

Mr. Velde. I feel it is time to have a short recess at this point, and 
after the recess I will appoint a subcommittee of the full committee 
consisting of Mr. Jackson, Mr. Clardy, Mr. Scherer, and Mr. Doyle 
to continue these hearings. Mr. Frazier and I will continue in exec- 
utive hearings. 

The committee will be in recess for 10 minutes. 

(Whereupon, at 10 : 05 a. m. the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 10: 15 a. m.) 

(AVliereupon, at 10 : 20 a. m., the hearing was reconvened.) 

Mr. Jackson. The committee will be in order. 

Are you ready to proceed, counsel ? 

Mr. KuNziG. I am, Mr. Chairman. 

Mrs. Hartle, we were discussing a little earlier the Communist atti- 
tude toward the Negro in this country ; and I would like to continue 
that discussion and ask you to continue giving us the basis of jour 
knowledge on that very important question. 



6134 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle. I had said that the Communist Party of this country, 
under Earl Browder, had gotten off the correct Marxist-Leninist posi- 
tion on the Negro people in this country, but after the reconstitution 
and through the reconstitution of the Communist Party in 1945 this 
error was corrected, and correcting this revision of Marxism-Leninism 
was one of the key issues around which the whole reconstitution took 
place at that time and after that time. 

According to the Communist theory the Black Belt is the area of 
Negro majority in the South. It cuts across State and county lines, 
comprises more than a hundred counties, and it is the Negro people 
in this area who are a nation. The rest of the Negro people in our 
country are not a part of this nation, according to Communist defini- 
tion. They are, instead of being a part of a nation, they are a national 
minority, just as the Mexican people, Slavic people, Jewish people, or 
other persons of definite origin are considered a national minority. 

According to the Communist theory, not all nations are oppressed 
nations, but the Negro nation in the United States of America is con- 
sidered an oppressed nation, and every real — and I believe that there 
are real problems of the Negro people in the United States of Amer- 
ica — and every imagined problem is used by the Communist Party as 
proof that the Negro nation is an oppressed nation in this country. 

But the basic proof that the Communist Party uses is that the Negro 
people in the South do not own the land in anywhere near the same 
proportion as white people do. 

And so the Communist theory says that the basic problem of the 
Negro nation is land reform. 

In its emphasis on the Negro question, the Communist Party con- 
stantly points out the size of the Negro people — 14 or 15 million people, 
all oppressed in some degree. South and North, and therefore teaches 
that the Negro people, as a whole, are the main ally of the proletariat 
in the United States of America. 

And a great deal of emphasis is placed by the Communist Party on 
the willingness of the Negro people to fight for their rights. Great 
hopes are raised that the working class, supported by the Negro people, 
will be a strong striking force when Negro labor unity is achieved. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mrs. Hartle, I think this is a_ most important 
point. Would you say that the Communist Party is sincere in this 
position on the Negro? 

Mrs. Hartle. That question has been asked me, I think, oftener than 
any other, and I think there is a good reason to ask it. 

One answer is that it is sincere in exactly the same way as it is sin- 
cere in all of its other front work. If one is to accept any of the front 
work of the Communist Party as sincere, then they could accept the 
work on the question of Negro rights as being sincere. 

Mr. SciiERER. May I interrupt ? 

But the whole objective eventually is to gain converts for the Com- 
munist cause, is it not? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that is true. The overall strategy is the prole- 
tarian revolution. That is the overall strategy of the Communist 
movement. The seizure of power by the working class of course led 
by the Communist Party for the establishment of socialism, which 
at later stage develops into communism. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6135 

Mr. DoYT^E. May I interrupt at this point? I was rather startled 
at the language you used there a minute ago. 

Do I understand you to say in substance that the hope is that the 
working people, with the people of the Negro nation, will form a 
striking force ? Didn't you use the term "striking force" ? 
Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Doyle. In what way did you use that ? Does that refer to the 
use in your judgment that they want to have force and violence ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The Communist Party explains this in a whole num- 
ber of ways in the basic theory of Marxism-Leninism, the important 
thing, the objective is the seizure of power, and the striking force then 
expecting what is called resistance is with arms. Lenin speaks of 
armed insurrection a great deal in his works, which I have read and 
studied. 

The Communist Party will also explain, and this I am sure is more 
for public consumption and to fool its own members, too— -that if 
there is no resistance from the capitalistic class, then there will be no 
need for the working class to use any force. 

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand then that your testimony is to the ulti- 
mate result that if the capitalist class resists in the United States being 
taken over by the Communist philosophy, that the reason that the 
Communist Party is advocating that there should be a Negro nation, 
as you have described, and in that Black Belt, is because they expect 
and want to use the Negro people in the Black Belt as part of the 
violent striking force ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I think that that is quite a fair description. Of 
course, in Communist theory it goes off on one point and talks about 
nations. What is a nation? It explains what it is and says they 
should all have equal rights. Therefore, if any of them are oppressed 
by another nation, they have a right to determine their own destiny, 
which of course means that they have the right to do anything they 
want to, of course, which they can do. Practical life of course makes 
that impossible at any particular point. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, you are of course aware of the fact 
that my question which I asked Mrs. Hartle was asked by me not only 
based on her testimony, but on the very similar testimony that we 
have heard in all parts of the United States with reference to the 
Negro question and on the formation and cultivation of a Negro 
nation. 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. 
Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Mrs. Hartle. 
Mrs. Hartle. Did you wish me to continue ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you continue, please, explaining this Negro 
problem ? 

Mrs. Hartt.e. In order for the working class to be able to assume 
power, led by the Communist Party — it is never conceived in the Com- 
munist Party that anyone but the Communist Party could lead this 
working class in assuming power — the working class must mobilize all 
the allies it can who will go along with it. If the Negro nation will 
rise and force its own self-determination for land reform and for other 
things that the Negro people do want or should want — if they would 
do this in concert with the working class, this, along with what other 
allies that might be mobilized along many other lines, should make a 
sufficiently strong force to upset the j)ower of the capitalist class and 



6136 coivoruxiST activities in the pacific northwest area 

create enough support to make it possible for the working class to 
retain power after seizing it. And it is frankly recognized, in Com- 
munist theory and that the whole strategy is not for the main purpose 
of Negro liberation but for the purpose of the proletarian revolution 
and this is not hidden in Communist theoiy, 

Mr. Jackson. Mrs. Hartle, to what extent, within your own personal 
knowledge, was the Communist Party successful in the Seattle area 
in bringing into the Communist Party and considerable number of 
Negro citizens ? 

Mrs. Hartle. In the Seattle area, the success in bringing any num- 
ber of Negro people into the Communist Party was small, until during 
and after World War II. And at that time, with the influx of a great 
number of Negro workers into the war industries here and into the 
area, the Communist Party at that time, in championing demands and 
raising demands and in figuring out demands, was able to organize 
sufficient activity that a large number of Negro people did join the 
party at that time. 

Mr. Jackson. In point of numbers, if you can, will you give us the 
optimum membership, the highest membership of the Communist 
Party in this area of which you have any information or knowledge ? 

Mrs, Hartle. Of the Communist Party as a whole ? 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. Mrs. Hartle, I understand that counsel 
will get to this matter in the course of his questioning, so I will with- 
draw that question at this time. 

Mr. Clardt. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. I want to point up one thing, if I may. 

Mrs. Hartle, isn't it with the curious lack of logic that the Com- 
munists are noted for — the Connnunist line that if anyone stands in 
their way, whether it be the capitalist class or a country or a nation 
or a group, that if the Communists attack, it really isn't an attack— 
they are merely acting in defense of the proletariat so that they try 
to sell themselves and their members on the idea that any use of force 
and violence by them is really not their fault, but it is the fault of the 
capitalists or what have you, that they don't fall down and allow the 
guy to take off their head? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; the whole Communist theory that I have studied 
and read by Lenin and Stalin and others is always able in s})ite of 
the fact that it talks about having an armed insurrection, and so forth — 
it always manages to put the question that the best interests of the 
workers, the best interests of the people, the best interests of the 
Nation were involved. 

Mr. Clardy. And that, therefore, they are acting in defense rather 
than offense ? 

Mrs. Hartle. And in defense rather than offense, and if there is a 
moot question there, that it is moi-ally justified. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, Mrs. Hartle, were you present at the reconstitu- 
tion convention in 1945 ? 

]\Irs. Hartle. Yes; I was present at the reconstitution convention 
of the Communist Party, both in this district and at the national 
convention. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you one of the delegates ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was 1 of 4 delegates to the reconstitution conven- 
tion held in New York in 1945. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6137 

Mr. KuNziG. Was this problem of the Negro taken up at that time ? 
Mrs. Hartle. That problem was taken up at that time, and there 
was quite a lot of discussion there about how to face the question. The 
problem was that the Negro people, Black Belt or not, very evidently 
don't want to be considered as a nation — are very much opposed to 
anything that smacks of separation from our country, of being set 
aside separately, and the point was made that, while this basic theo- 
retical position was correct and had to be adhered to, that it should 
not be blared forth in any immediate programs, any more than you 
would go to a labor union with a resolution on a raise in wages and 
then tack on that this is in the best interests of the proletarian revo- 
lution. And that is the way it was explained, and that is why I made 
the point that it is like the national question as a part of the front 
technique. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman. 
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. Isn't it a fact that the Communist Party has gen- 
erally recognized that it has not been as successful in penetrating the 
Negro group as it felt it should have been? 

Mrs. Hartle. I think in the Communist Party, as a Communist, the 
opinion that I got and that I held was that the Communist Party had 
a great deal of difficulty in getting started and in learning how to 
work with the Negro people. I do believe, though, that the Communist 
Party's opinion at a later date was that it was learning how and was 
beginning to be more successful but not nearly as successful as it would 
like to be. 

Mr. Scherer. Not nearly as successful as it thought it could be? 

Mrs. Hartle. I am inclined very strongly 

Mr. Scherer. Or not as successful as it has been in some other cir- 
cles ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct. I do believe now, looking at it objec- 
tively, that the Communist Party was not nearly as successful as it 
thought it was or advertised itself as being. 

Mr. Scherer. It had considerable difficulty in converting the mass 
of the Negro population, hadn't it? 

Mrs. Hartle. Oh, yes, considerable difficulty in even keeping its 
members and making any kind of Communist members out of them. 
Mr. Scherer. Much more so than with other groups that it has 
attacked ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I don't know whether I can think of all the other 
groups at the moment. I wouldn't know about that. 

Mr. Jackson. Mrs. Hartle, on that point, is it true that there has 
been a considerable turnover in membership so far as the American 
Negro is concerned in the Communist Party ; that it was for one rea- 
son or another that there is testimony to indicate that disillusion came 
to a great many Negroes who entered the Communist Party and that 
for that reason it was difficult to maintain in active participating mem- 
bership the Negro after he had compared the fact of the Communist 
Party with the figures and the promises which had been given to him 
as representing the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; that is very true. My own experience with the 
Negro people in and around the Communist Party had been that they 
are extremely interested in achieving a status of equality with other 
people ; but until they are influenced by communism, it has never even 

48069 — 54 — pt. 3 2. 



6138 COMMUNIST ACTnaTIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

entered tlieir heads or their hearts that this ever needs to be in any 
way connected with disloyalty to our country. They consider equality 
as morally right and can be fairly easily attracted into front work that 
is skillfully done. 

ISIr. ScHERER. They have never considered accomplishing these ob- 
jectives which they have for equal rights through forceful means, 
either, have they, as a whole? 

Mrs. Hartle, No ; not through forceful means. 

If a campaign is launched by the Communist Party that isn't very 
clearly in the interests of the Negro people, it is my experience that 
they will detect these extraneous matters very rapidly and see ulterior 
motives very quickly, and for this reason I believe the Communist 
Party is forced to act in its so-called sincere way. If the Communist 
Party wants to make any headway among the Negro people, it cannot 
crowd the issue ; it has to work out a simple campaign directly based 
on a need or right of the Negro people and not crowd in other matters 
rapidly, or the Negro people will just disappear from it. 

And if the Communist Party sets up a goal, like a job in a Safeway 
store, and puts on a picket line, maybe the Negro people will feel, 
'"Well, it would be a good idea to have a job for a Negro in a store," but 
if you start carrying banners, you know, about 3 or 4 other subjects, 
this is very quickly detected, and the Negro people stay away from and 
don't want to be involved with a lot of other matters, involved matters 
that according to my understanding as best as I can understand it, is 
that they don't want to be disloyal to the country and they don't want 
to fight for things that they don't consider to be morally right. 

]Mr. ScHERER. Certainly your testimony is in line with that of other 
testimony we have heard on this same subject with reference to the 
Negroes themselves and their attitude toward their problem. 

Mr. Jackson. I would say that that testimony comes in large part 
from Negroes themselves, who were thoroughly disillusioned wirhin 
the Communist Party. And it might be of interest in that connection 
to state that the research section of the House committee is presently 
I)reparing a report, based upon the testimony given by Negroes who 
were former Communists, and I think the tentative title of that publi- 
cation is "The American Negro in the Communist Party," which will 
within a few months, I am sure, be available for public distribution 
and may be obtained bv writing to the clerk of the Committee on Un- 
American Activities, Washington, D. C. 

Mr. DoYL,E. Mr. Chairman, as long as you are mentioning a commit- 
tee publication, I have here in my hand this booklet. One Hundred 
Things You Should Know about Communism in the U. S. A., covering 
religion, education, labor. Government, etc. Any of you folks who 
would like a copy of this, as long as the supply lasts at Washington, 
D. C. — there are not too many of them there, I am told — may receive 
one. 

If you will write to the Committee on Un-American Activities at 
Washington, D. C, as long as the supply lasts, you can get a copy of 
this free. 

IVIr. Jackson-. Apropos of the matter of reports, I think it should be 
stated that each year the House Committee on Un-American Activities 
has printed as House documents, reports on various phases of the Com- 
munist operations in this country, in addition to which there are of 
course available a certain number of transcripts of the hearings ; that 



COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6139 

is to say, that as you have undoubtedly noted, every word of the testi- 
mony being taken here is being recorded and will be published by the 
committee under the heading of "Communist Infiltration in the Seattle 
Area." "When that is published, it will of course, subject to the limita- 
tions imposed in point of numbers, be available for distribution to 
those interested and may be had upon request. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, would you continue with your discussion 
about the Negro problem ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I think that the sincerity about the Communist Party 
on the Negro question that troubles many people should be said to 
derive not from the Communist Party; the look of sincerity derives 
not from the Communist Party, but from the astuteness of the Negro 
people who force this being sincere, being direct in the work on the 
Communist Party and do not allow the Communist Party to draw 
tiiem into involved things without knowing what they are about. 

I think I could say on this that there are other people in our coun- 
try who do not show that much perspicacity. 

The reason I draw this conclusion is that even before there was a 
developed educational anti-Communist campaign in our country, the 
Communist Party had a great deal of trouble in gaining support among 
the Negro people and had to work with them. It is said by the Com- 
munist Party that the Negro people are afraid of the Communist 
Party because the authorities are on them all the time, but this was 
the situation long before the authorities were very concerned about 
the matter, as far as my experience goes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, was it not the practice of the Communist Party 
to establish Negro commissions, as they called them ? 

Mrs. Hartle. As a part of the emphasis on the Negro question, the 
Communist Party has established commissions, standing committees, 
in the national setup, in the districts, in the divisions of the districts, 
the regions, and even into the divisions of the regions, the sections, so 
that a system of standing committees on the Negro question is in exist- 
ence much more developed than on any other questions that the Com- 
munist Party involves itself with. 

(At this point Mr, Clardy left the hearing room.) 

Mrs. Hartle. These committees are devoted to bringing about the 
execution of Communist policy and program. They are subcommit- 
tees of the leading committee of the particular jurisdiction and are 
responsible to it fully. And especially since the reconstitution of the 
Communist Party the practice has been to assign top people, top Com- 
munist leaders, along with others, on these Negro commissions. And 
my own work on the district Negro commission was a district execu- 
tive board assignment. 

Mr. KuNziG. So that we may be absolutely clear, and so that the 
record will be absolutely clear, this detailed testimony that you have 
been giving us on the Communist Party's position with regard to the 
Negro has been based upon rather extensive personal knowledge of 
your own in working in this very field here in this area, is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. I was a member of the Negro commission of 
the northwest district from the time I came to Seattle until the time 
I left Seattle in 1950, and was chairman of that commission for a con- 
siderable portion of the time, secretary other times, and always the 
top Communist on the commission. 



6140 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. So that these policies that you are tellino; us about 
and this plan of the Communist Party, in a sense utilized the Negro 
for its own advantage and not for the advantage of the Negro, is a 
plan and a policy which you yourself practiced and which you car- 
ried out for years ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; that is true. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I ask one question there ? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I think I noted you saying three times at least that the 
Negro was not interested in or could not easily be encouraged in being 
disloyal to the United States. 

JMrs. Hartle. Yes ; I mean that very fully. 

Mr. Doyle. Was that true up until the time you left the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. All of my experiences with the Negro people have 
indicated no evidence of any desire to be disloyal or even a thought 
of being disloyal until they became somewhat acquainted with Com- 
munist theory and began to think that the only way they could get 
their rights was to be somewhat involved with these other matters. 
They had to be convinced by the Communist Party and by Marxist- 
Leninist theory, and it wasn't an easy thing to do in most cases. 

Mr. Doyle. Then your testimonv is that the American Communist 
Party, in order to try to acquire Negro American membership, delib- 
erately taught the American Negro that he must be disloyal to the 
United States in order to gain his equality ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, in effect, the Communist Party never said it 
was teacliing disloyalty, but it taught the Negro leaders and mem- 
bers the whole Communist program, and in doing so, of course, was 
teaching them to be disloyal. The Communist Party will disclaim 
that, of course. 

Mr. Doyle. One more question : In your judgment, are you in a 
position to give us an appraisement as to whether or not the feeling 
of the American Negro on the matter of disloyalty to the United States 
IS on the increase or decrease so far as you have observed or so far 
as vou did observe at the time you left the American Communist 

Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, my own experience is that it was extremely on 

the decrease. 

Mr. Doyle. I think that is very important, Mr. Chairman, to have 
that appraisement. 

Thank you. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, these Negro commissions you mentioned, 
do they follow what we know so well to be the party line ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; these Negro commissions followed the party line 
exactly the same as any other commissions or subcommittees or lead- 
ing committees. 

The purpose of the commission was not to have a separate line or 
program, but to develop a program of action to bring this line into 
effect among the Negro people. 

After the leading committee approves of a line and program, the 
commission proceeds to assign specific persons and specific groups to 
carry out certain parts of the desired work. And a great deal of 
advice and attention is given by the district and national leadership 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6141 

to the Negro commission — nationally, in the district and in the regions, 
this is the case. Many articles of guidance are published in Political 
Affairs, which is the theoretical organ of the Communist Party, and 
there is really fundamentally no difference at all theoretically or 
organizationally between the Communist Party's work on the JNegro 
question and on any other question. This is not any kind of an inde- 
pendent field, where the Communist Party operates, say, as a sort of 
service organization. 

It is greatly desired, though, by the Communist Party that people 
should view their work in the field of Negro rights as a sort of special- 
service work. It is greatly desired that especially the Negro people 
should view it as such, but that is not the case ; it is not a service organ- 
ization — the Communist Party is not a service organization in a cer- 
tain way for the Negro people. It is a Communist Party and its 
attitude toward the Negro people and Negro nation is exactly the 
same as that to any other group in respect to its objective. 

Mr. KuNziG. In other words, it wants to use the Negro just as it 
wants to use anyone whom it can get its tentacles upon. 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct. 

Mr. KuxziG. Mrs. Hartle, who were the members of the district 
Negro commission in the period up to July 1950, at which time you 
left Seattle to go into the underground ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was a member of the district Negro commission at 
that time ; Terry Pettus was a member of this commission. He was 
at that time a member of the district committee and editor of the 
Northwest edition of the People's World, and is white. Paul Bowen 
was a member of the commission. He was at that time the Communist 
Party organizer of the central region, and he is a Negro. 

Mr. KuNziG. He was one of the defendants in the Smith Act trial ; 
is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; lie was. Earl George was a member of the com- 
mission. He was also a member of the district committee. He is a 
Negro. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you give us any further identification of Earl 
George ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Earl George was a member of the waterfront section 
of the Communist Party and a leader in it and was a Communist Party 
member in the warehouseman's local of the ILWU. 

Calvin Harris was on the commission as a representative from the 
Communist Party commission on youth work. He is also a Negro. 
I believe that he has been discussed before. 

And Eugene Wilks was also a member of the commission. He was 
a member of the waterfront section committee, and also a Negro. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are there any others ? 

Mrs. Hartle. A man named Charles Nichols was also a member 
of the commission. He was an officer of the Marine Cooks and 
Stewards. He was a Negro, and he is deceased. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now can you tell us the names of any others who were 
perhaps members at an earlier period of the district Negro commis- 
sion ? Try to give us, roughly, the period, if you can. 

Mrs. Hartle. I do remember some persons who were at one time or 
another for a certain length of time or another members of the dis- 
trict Negro commission. Tliat would be from the period of about 
1943 up to about 1947 — around in that period, or 1948. 



6142 COMIMUNIST ACTWITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Carl Brooks has been a member of the district Negro commission. 
He had been chairman of it for a period, and is a Negro. He lived in 
the central Seattle area and was a member of the shipscalers' union. 

Celeste Brooks has also been a member of this commission for a 

Eeriod of time. She is a Negro woman, wife of Carl Brooks, and has 
een a member of the King County committee of the Communist Party. 

P. J. Blakes, who was an officer of the 37th district branch of the 
Communist Party and also of the Communist Political Association, a 
Negro, was for a time a member of the district Negro commission. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you have any address or any further identification 
that you can help us with ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He lived in central Seattle, East Madison district. 

Sam Markson was a member of the district Negi'o commission and 
was representative on it from the Oregon State Negro Commission. I 
believe he was chairman of the Oregon State Negro Commission at that 
time, and he was white. 

Clark Harper, organizer of the central region of the Communist 
Party, a Negro, was a member of the district Negi^o commission, also, 
for quite a period of time. He lived for a time in Seattle and later 
lived in south King County. 

Mr. KuNziG. I am correct, am I not, that it lies within your knowl- 
edge that Clark Harper worked for the FBI in the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; it does lie within my knowledge. 

Mr. KuNziG. And it is correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct. 

Laura Wilkins was for a time a member of the Negro commission. 
She was an officer of the waterfront region of the Communist Party, 
a young Negro woman. 

Baba Jeanne Decker was a member of the district Negro commis- 
sion and at that time she was a member of the Tacoma Negro Commis- 
sion and a representative from that commission. She lived at that 
time in Tacoma. 

Earl Payne was a member of the district Negro commission and a 
member of the district committee. He lived at that time in Seattle, be- 
fore going to become Oregon State organizer of the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNzir,. Could you tell us now in conclusion on this Negro 
subject the highest number, the optimum number of Negroes, to your 
knowledffe, that were members of the party in this Northwest district? 

Mrs. Hartle. I do remember one recruiting drive in which the goal 
was 1.000 members and that by the time the drive was concluded that 
considerably more than 50 percent of that particular drive who were 
brought into the Communist Party, recruited, were Negro men and 
women. 

The optimum number of Negro membership in this district, as best 
I can recall it, was well over a thousand. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, earlier in your testimony — T believe it 
was Monday — we touched at various times since then briefly upon the 
subject of your going into the underground. I should now like to turn 
in much more detail to the subject of the underground, how it operates, 
what it does, what your part was in it — the general total discussion 
of the whole field of Communist Party members hiding underground. 

Mr. vScHERER. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Scherer. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6143 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, before we leave the subject of the at- 
tempt on the part of the Communist Party to infiltrate the Negro race, 
I think it should be said at this point that it is to the everlasting credit 
of the American Negro that he has withstood the onslaught of the 
Communist Party to make him a part of the conspiracy. I think this 
is particularly true, because perhaps the Negro, more than anyone else, 
has problems which would make him susceptible to the Communist 
program. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you, Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Hartle, you have already testified that you were 
a member of the underground of the Communist Party in the North- 
west area very recently. Would you advise the committee who was in 
charge of this movement ? 

Mrs. Hartle. This was headed by Henry Huff, district chairman. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you tell the committee how Henry Huff kept 
in contact with you ? Tell us how you went underground and just how 
it was done. 

Mrs. Hartle. How it was done — I had m 3ntioned before that I was 
called to a meeting in a park and there it was discussed that at least a 
couple of people would have to go underground immediately. Wliat 
this meant — it was explained that it was serious — what this meant was 
leaving town, assuming another name and identity, and Ha ing in such 
a way that no one would know where yc»u are, that no one would 
recognize you. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you drop out of sight ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you use another name ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. "What other name did you use ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Margaret S. Johnson. I spelled it J-o-h-n-s-o-n. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you take steps, for example, to establish your 
identity, such as getting a driver's license, or anything of that nature ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I had a driver's license. 

Mr. KuNziG. Under a false name ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Under the false name, with a false description, too — 
age and height and weight were varied from the truth. 

(At this point Mr. Clardy returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Wliere did you go when you dropped out of sight? 

Mrs. Hartle. I first went to a Communist Party member's house 
in this town and stayed with her, and kept out of sight and didn't 
take any buses or didn't walk around outside so anyone would know 
where I had gone to. I stayed in her home. 

Mr. KuNziG. Then where did you go ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Then I went to Tacoma, Wash. 

Mr. KuNziG. Who was the Communist Party member in whose home 
you stayed before you went to Tacoma ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Paula Alexander. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wliat was the address where you stayed with Paula 
Alexander? 

Mrs. Hartle. I stayed with her a few days in a housing project 
in West Seattle. I believe it was called the Delridge housing project,, 
and later she moved to a house on Madison Street near Lake Wash- 
ington. I don't remember the address. 



6144 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. So the record is clear ; of course, it jjoes without saying 
that you knew her to be a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I did know her to be one. 

Mr. KuNziG. You said you went to Tacoma 

INIrs. Hartle. Then I went to Tacoma. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you tell us what you did there ? 

Mrs. Hartle. In Tacoma I rented an apartment and I stayed in 
that apartment except to go out to get groceries and perform any 
necessary errand, but there I stayed in that apartment and started 
crocheting a bedspread. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now you stayed out of sight and had no contact with 
your friends, and so forth, except the contact that I am going to ask 
you about with couriers ; is that right ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I had contact at that time — at that very first 
time with one person. 

Mr. KuNziG. Who was that ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Ralph Hall. 

Mr. KuNziG. Could you further identify Ealph Hall? 

Mrs. Hartle. Ralph Hall was the Northwest district press director 
before he was sent underground, was a member of the district com- 
mittee, a full-time functionary for a period for the Communist Party, 
and in the capacity of press director he worked half for the Commu- 
nist Party and half for the Peoples World. 

Mr. KuNziG. Was he underground ? Did he go underground ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He went underground with me, at the same time that 
I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. And these facts are not known until now ; is that cor- 
rect? They have never been revealed? 

Mrs. Hartle. As far as I know, they have not been known. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is the assumed name that Ralph Hall took, if 
you know? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I do know. It was Carl Swanson. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now where did he go to work ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He first went to Tacoma, too, and also rented a place 
to live and also stayed in and didn't work. However, I met with him, 
kept contact with him at meetings in restaurants or in a park, and 
sometimes he came to my apartment and we had a meeting or confer- 
ence there for an hour or two. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you at any time communicate with him by tele- 
phone ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No. 

Mr. Jackson. Were you under instructions not to use the telephone, 
or was this something that you decided upon yourself? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, I am sure that we decided upon it ourselves, 
based on our past training — that that would be poor means of com- 
munication. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did Ralph Hall, who assumed the name of Carl Swan- 
son, go to work at any particular type of work underground? 

Mrs. Hartle. After a few months he went to work as a farmhand on 
a farm. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman. 

Mrs. Hartle. That is what he told me. I know only what he told 
me. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Clardy. [J 



COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6145 

Mr. Clardy. I just want to interject something here that probably 
a lot of the folks that are seeing or hearing this may think that this 
is something extraordinary and unusual, this underground apparatus 
and how it is put into operation. 

I want to ask you, Witness, if what you did and what the man did 
you have been talking about, is only a typical example of the way the 
Communist Party is operating and setting up its underground appa- 
ratus all across the country ? 

Mrs. Hartle. It is only a typical example. It was my understand- 
ing that this sort of practice, in fact, it was told to us by Huff that 
this was being done all over the country and that it was a regular prac- 
tice. I have had experiences in the past of similar practices in light 
of concentration work, of getting into industries, and these are not 
such new things to me, but a full scale underground of the type that 
I understood that I was entering, I had not experienced before. 

Mr. Clardy. So that the American people may clearly understand, 
I think it was J. Edgar Hoover who used the expression that the Com- 
munist Party is somewhat like an iceberg — about one-tenth above the 
surface and nine-tenths below the surface. 

Wliat you are saying fits in, of course, with what the committee has 
discovered and has been developing in the past, but I hope no one 
misses the point that we do have a secret underground conspiracy 
ready to spring into action when any emergency in the party comes 
along. That is a fact, isn't it ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is the conclusion that I draw from my own ex- 
perience and knowledge of who was sent into the underground. 

Mr. Clardy. Thank you. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you please advise the committee, Mrs. Hartle, 
how Henry Huff kept in contact with you ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Through a courier. 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you mean that? Would you explain it in a 
little more detail ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Through a person whose assignment would be to keep 
the contact, so that meeting places could be arranged, so that litera- 
ture or communications could be passed through this person without 
it always being necessary for Huff and myself or another member of 
the underground to meet. 

Mr. Jackson. This was, in effect, then a liaison between the Com- 
munist Party leadership in being and the Communist Party leader- 
ship in hiding ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mrs. Hartle, was the underground set up in any 
groups — I mean of 2 or 3 or 4, or anything of that nature ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, the underground was not set up in groups, as 
such. In almost all cases the individuals were by themselves and then 
connected up with someone else. In some cases a husband and wife 
were together in a group. 

I was a member of a committee of 3 that was supposed to be a 
reserve state committee, the 3 of us meeting together from time to 
time. 

Mr. KuNziG. Tell the committee, if you will, please, what was the 
purpose of this underground ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The purpose of the underground, as I was told it and 
as I believed it to be, was to be able to take leadership, assume leader- 



6146 COM]VIUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

ship of the Communist Party in the event that leaders of the party 
were arrested or in the event that there was iHness or any other reason 
for elimination of leadership — that if the present state committee 
were arrested or anything else would happen to them that there would 
be other committees in readiness to take their place for leadership. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I ask the witness this question? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. How did you obtain your means of livelihood while 
you were underground ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was furnished with $200 by Henry Huff when I 
left Seattle and some small sums after that; but I went to work — I 
did various kinds of work, mostly as cook and waitress, and earned 
my own living. 

Mr. Doyle. While you were underground, did you pay dues to the 
Communist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. This committee of three that you mentioned, how often 
did this group meet ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The group was only two, at first — Ralph Hall and 
myself ; and we met about once a week and later, as we went farther 
away and became more separated in point of living, about once in 2 
weeks; and it could vary — there might be 3 weeks for some reason 
that we didn't get together. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where were these meetings held ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Mostly in restaurants or, when the weather was per- 
mitting, in parks; and when the committee of three was meeting, it 
was held in motels. 

Mr. KuNziG. In what cities and where ? 

Mrs. Hartle. In the cities of Tacoma, Oregon City, Salem, Eugene. 
I think there was a meeting arranged once in Corvallis. One member 
came along with a car and we would drive to a place in a car in the 
afternoon and have a meeting. 

]VIr. Jackson. How did you receive notification of such a meeting 
to be held? 

Mrs. Hartle. These were prearranged in advance; and if a special 
meeting was called, a courier would inform me and the others and let 
us know where to be at a certain time. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, in order to make this clear, to get a proper 
picture, I want to ask this question. 

You were, in effect, giving up your entire life as it had been, 
admittedly a Communist Party but creating a new Communist Party 
life with entirely new people, is that right? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; that is true. 

Mr. KuNZTG. Who were the others who were with you — the other 
members of this underground committee ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Another member of the underground committee was 
Mil ford Sutherhmd. 

Mr. Kttnzig. Where was he from ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He was from Tacoma and had been organizer of the 
Communist Partv of Tacoma, 

Mr. Kunzig. Did he tell you what name he was using in the under- 
ground ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I think he told me his name. I have forgotten it, 
excepting that I do remember the first name was Lee. 



COMAIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6147 

Mr. KuNziG. Is there any other name that you can think of, of any 
otlier courier or any other people ? 

Mrs. Hartle. One of the couriers for a period of time was Mary 
Guilmet. She served at the very beginning for the purpose of keeping 
contact. 

Mr, KuNziG. Can you give us any further identification of this 
person ? 

Mrs. Hartle. She was a member of the north King County region 
of the Communist Party and an officer of the region. I believe she 
was one of the section organizers of the north King County Communist 
Tarty. 

Mr, KuNziG. Where is she now ? Do you know ? 

Mrs. Hartle. When I last saw her, she told me that her husband 
wanted to go to Alaska and that the Communist Party didn't want 
him to go but that he was going anyway, and she wondered whether 
she should go with him. I advised her to go in view of the fact that 
she had small children, and I gave her my personal advice on that. 

Mr. KuNziG. Does it lie within your knowledge that her name is 
now Mary Guilmet Graham, her married name ? 

Mrs, Hartle. Yes; I believe that was the name. I had forgotten 
the name, but that is the name. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now who else was present at some of these under- 
ground meetings other than the people you have already testified 
about ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Henry Huff was present at some of them. 

Mr. KuNziG. He was the man who was in charge, is that right? 

Mrs. Hartle, Yes; he was the main contact between the under- 
ground and the other Communist Party leadership. 

(At this point Mr. Clardy left the hearing room.) 

Mr, KuNziG. May the record show that Henry Huff was one of the 
Smith Act defendants in this area ? 

Mr. Jackson. The record will so show. 

Mr. Doyle. May I inquire at that point, please ? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr, Doyle. Do I understand your testimony is that this man, Henry 
Huff, from Seattle, controlled the underground clear down to Oregon 
City and Tacoma and Corvallis through couriers and otherwise ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr, Doyle. Then the underground, even into another State, was 
controlled from Seattle? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. Why didn't they use the telephone ? 

Mrs. Hartle, The only reason that I can give, being a Communist 
and knowing about telephones, is that there is a great deal of chance 
of telephone wires either being tapped or of other persons overhearing 
you speaking; and, if I may add in a rather light vein — telephone 
communications for Communists would be very expensive because they 
would have to be quite long — these would be 3- and 4-hour conferences. 

Mr. Scherer. They were afraid that perhaps the telephone was 
tapped bv the Federal Bureau of Investigation, is that it ? 

Mrs. Hartle, Well, the main reason that a member of the under- 
ground wouldn't use the telephone in order to keep contact with any- 
one else was that his location might be found out. 



6148 COIMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Now you said that Henry Huff was one of the persons 
present other than those you have ah^eady testified about. Who else 
was present ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Jack Lawrie, Sr. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you spell that, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. L-a-w-r-i-e. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you identify him further ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He was organizational secretary of the central region 
of King County of the Communist Party in the latter part of the 
1940's and 1950 and lived in that area. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did Helen Huff attend with Henry Huff ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; Helen Huff was often present at the meetings 
with Henry Huff. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is she his wife ? 

Mrs. Hartle. She was his wife. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know her to be a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; I knew her to be a member of the Communist 
Party. _ She was the North King County organizer of the Communist 
Party in the period before I left Seattle and a member of the district 
committee. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wliat was discussed at these meetings ? 

Mrs, Hartle. Quite a lot of discussion would revolve around how 
we could keep our presence from being known, either to authorities 
or to anyone else. We often discussed whether we had seen anyone, 
whether anyone had recognized us, whether it was necessary to move, 
and then the question of earning a living came in for quite a lot of 
discussion, too — Avhat kind of place you could work in so that too 
many people wouldn't see you ; it wasn't considered very wise to work 
in a place like a restaurant, but there was also the problem of being 
able to obtain other employment, and so those sort of questions were 
discussed a great deal. Then Communist Party policy was to some 
extent discussed and literature was passed. But the underground did 
not have, in my experience at least, any very coherent or very detailed 
report from the Communist Party as such. 

Mr. KuNziG. While you \\'ere in this underground, were you active 
as a Communist in the sense of going to meetings and typical things? 

Mrs. Hartle. Not at all. 

Mr. KuNziG. Of course you were even a more dedicated Communist, 
if possible, in this special line of underground work that you were 
doing ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That was considered so, and so told to us bv Henry 
Huff. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now you have mentioned Mary Guilmet and Jack 
Lawrie, Sr., as couriers. Did you have any other courier contacts? 

Mrs. Hartle. One courier who made several contacts while Ralph 
Hall and I were in Tacoma was William K. Dobbins. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you knew him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I knew him to be a member of the district board 
and the district committee of the Connnunist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. Can you give us any further identification, any address 
or anything of that nature ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He lived in the Ballard area and was an officer one 
time of the Building Service Employees Union, Local 6. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6149 

Mr. KuNziG. Now did Henry Huff ever advise you of any similar 
underground assignments given to any other people and, if so, would 
you please name these other people ? 

(At this point Mr. Clardy returned to the hearing room.) 

Mrs. Hartle. Henry Huff did advise us on several occasions — two 
or three occasions — of other persons who had been sent underground— 
whom he said had been sent underground. 

Mr. KuNZiG. So your testimony now is as to what Henry Huff has 
told you ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, as to what he had told me. And I can remember 
of him mentioning that George and Eosella Bailey 

Mr. KuNziG. How do you spell that name ? 
Mrs. Hartle. E-o-s-e-l-l-a B-a-i-1-e-y. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Now aside from the fact of the hearsay of what Huff 
had told you, did you, of your own knowledge, know these two people 
to be members of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; I knew of my own knowledge that they were 
members of the Communist Party. 

George Bailey was a member of the section committee of the water- 
front section and an officer of the longshoremen's branch of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Rosella Bailey was organizational secretary of the central region of 
the Communist Party. 

Both of them lived in the East Madison area. They had an apart- 
ment in the East Madison area. 

Henry Huff told me that Dell and Pearl Castle had been sent and 
had gone underground. 

Mr. KuNziG. Could you identify them further, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Dell Castle I knew in the Communist Party as a mem- 
ber, and he was once organizer of the southwest Washington region of 
the Communist Party. 

Pearl Castle I had known as a member of the Communist Party, as 
a person involved in Communist Party cultural activities — entertain- 
ment activities. 

Mr. KuNZiG. How about Baba Jeanne Decker? You have already 
talked about her this morning. 

Mrs. Hartle. Henry Huff told me that Baba Jeanne Decker had 
been sent underground and had gone underground. She had been 
organizer of the Tacoma region of the Communist Party, a member 
of the district committee and lived in Tacoma when last I knew her 
as a member. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are there any others, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Stan Henrickson, I believe it is. 

Mr. KuNziG. H-e-n-r-i-c-k-s-o-n? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; that is correct. In my communication with him 
formerly I had used the name Henderson and had never been corrected 
by him, but I have reason to believe that his name is Henrickson now. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. I knew him as Northwest regional organizer 
of the Communist Party in the Bellingham, Sedro-Wooley, Everett 
area. 

Mr. KuNziG. Any others ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was told by Huff that Carl Backlund had gone un- 
derground. 



6150 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Carl Backlund had been organizational secretary of the waterfront 
section of the Communist Party, and Huff told me that he had been 
sent, when he went into the underground, into the Northwest area of 
the State of Washington. 

Mr. KuNziG. How about Gordon ISIoir ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Gordon ISIoir and Ted Dolvter. HufF told me that 
both of them had been sent underground and had gone underground. 

Ted Dokter and Gordon Moir were both leaders of the Communist 
Party in southwest Washington, had both been members of the district 
committee. 

(At this point Mr. Clardy left the hearing room.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know a Merrill Kimple ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was told by Huff that Merrill Kimple was doing 
something along this line, but it was never clear whether he was under- 
ground or not underground to me, but his name was mentioned. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Did you know Merrill Kimple to be a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; I did. I knew him as South King County re- 
gional organizer of the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. How about Clayton Van Lydegraf ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was told by Huff — and this was a little later — that 
Clayton Van Lydegraf had gone underground and was assuming some 
type of underground responsibility. I had known him as the North- 
west district organizational secretary of the Communist Party, mem- 
ber of the district board and district committee. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would it be correct to say that Huff ]iad — how shall I 
put it? — breached Communist Party security by telling you these 
matters ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No ; I don't believe so. I believe that the underground 
State committee was supposed to have some idea of who they could 
rely on in the event that he had to assume leadership. 

Mr. KuNziG. So that it is possible for underground Communist 
Party members to have some knowledge then of who are other under- 
ground Communist Party members? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, yes, through being told so by the direct organ- 
izer, but I did not know their addresses or did not see them. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now to a very serious question, Mrs. Hartle. In the 
event the United States engaged in armed conflict with tlie Soviet 
Union, or anything of that nature, what would be the position of this 
underground group of the Communist Party? What would be their 
functions ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Tlie functions of this underground group, as I under- 
stood them, would be no different from the functions of an open leader- 
ship. 

The reason given for being underground is that you would be ar- 
rested if you were above ground — or miglit be; so the underground 
is for the purpose of being able to continue to operate. 

Now as to what the position would be — the position of the under- 
ground leadership: As I iniderstand it, it wouldn't be any different 
from the position of an open leadership. It is the position of the Com- 
munist Party that is the point here, as best as I was told and under- 
stood it. 

The position of tlie Communist Party of the U. S. A., as expressed 
by William Z. Foster, was that the Communist Party, U. S. A., will 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6151 

not support a war of aggression by the United States against the Soviet 
Union. Foster said this in support of similar statements by Togliatti, 
head of the Communist Party of Italy, and of a similar statement by 
a French leader of the Communist Party of France, and that is the 
way the question was placed by Foster, taking it for granted that if 
there ever were a war between the United States of America and Soviet 
Russia that the United States must be the aggressor, and then to say 
that the Communist Party will not support a war of aggression. And 
that is the way the Communist terminology and reasoning goes on 
that question. 

Mr. Jackson. Then to put it quite bluntly, in the event of any pos- 
sible hostilities for any reason between the United States of America 
and the Soviet Union, the loyalty of those in the underground would 
be expected to be on the side of the Soviet Union? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; it would be expected, and it would be, if they 
were Communists. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you. 

Mr. DoTLE. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I think it is appropriate at that point for me to read a 
paragraph again from the Communist Manifesto, quoting from Mr. 
Stalin. I am reading from page 12 of this American Bar Association 
booklet on communism, Marxism, and Leninism that I referred to yes- 
terday, where Stalin quotes Lenin as follows: 

The main task of contemporary communism in Western Europe and 
America is to acquire the ability to seek, to find, to determine correctly 
the concrete path or the particular turn of events that will bring the 
masses right up to the real, decisive, last, and great revolutionary 
struggle. 

We do not know which spark vrill kindle the conflagration. 

Then there is the question : 

Can a country in which the dictatorship of the proletariat has been 
established consider itself fully guaranteed against foreign intervention 
and consequently against the restoration of the old order without the 
victory of the revolution in a number of other countries? 

A question which must be answered in the negative. What is needed is 
the ability to find at any moment that particular link in the chain which 
must be pressed in with one stroke to gain control of the whole chain 
and pass without a hitch to the next link. 

I think that is especially appropriate in view of the present world 
conditions and the aggressive move of military and subversive com- 
munism in certain portions of Europe and now in Indochina and 
in that part of the world, to say nothing of Korea. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you very much, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, may I bring up this point in order 
to clarify a part of the testimony given by the witness ? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Scherer. 

(At this point Mr. Clardy returned to hearing room.) 

Mr. Scherer. As I understand your testimony, Mrs. Hartle, you said 
that the Communist Party would not support a war of aggression 
by the United States against Soviet Russia. 

Mrs. Hartle. That is the Communist Party's position ; yes. 

Mr. Scherer. And, as 1 understand your testimony, it is that the 
party has already determined that any war between the United States 
and Soviet Russia would be considered by the party as a war of ag- 
gression on the part of the United States ? 



6152 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle. That I am completely certain of. 

Mr. ScHERER. So that the die has already been cast ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is the point. 

Mr. ScHERER. Just one other question, while I have the floor. 

Did the party, particularly the underground, cache away any equip- 
ment, such as typewriters or mimeograph machines, in the event that 
the equipment then in use by the party were taken or confiscated by 
the authorities or otherwise destroyed ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was told by Huff, and there had been discussion 
even before I left Seattle, that such steps had to be taken — that print- 
ing equipment, lithograph equipment, paper, typewriters and other 
kinds of equipment, to make it possible to put out a newspaper or 
leaflets, had to be put away in a secure place in the event that it was 
impossible to secure it by just going out and buying it at a later date. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you know of any other equipment other than the 
type that you have mentioned that was cached away for future emer- 
gency use ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No. I don't remember anything except that type of 
equipment. I don't believe there was any other. There is a possi- 
bility that there would be some auxiliary material that I haven't 
mentioned. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you know of any secret funds or any secret ac- 
counts of the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There was discussion of a reserve fund for the under- 
ground in this district. That reserve fund, as far as I know, did not 
materialize. I couldn't be too sure of it, but at least I never saw 
any evidence of it. 

Mr. Scherer. Were you in that part of the underground that dealt 
with sabotage ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, no. 

Mr. Scherer. There was an underground unit that dealt with 
sabotage, was there not? 

Mrs. Hartle. Not that I knew of. 

Mr. Scherer. Not that you knew of ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Not to my knowledge, no. 

Mr. Scherer. I have nothing further. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, isn't it a fact, however, that such a unit or 
other types of units could and probably would exist without your 
knowing about it? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, certainly don't rule it out of the realm of possi- 
bility, and the reason that I don't is that when the Communist Party 
says that you are giving your life, especially a functionary, you put 
the Communist Party before everything and have such an extremely 
dedicated approach and such an extremely strong attachment to Soviet 
Russia that it follows to me very logically and easily that in the event 
of a certain type of situation the Communist Party would engage in 
sabotage. 

Mr. Clardy. The point that I was trying to get at was this : Isn't 
it the Communist Party tactic to see to it that one individual member 
knows as few of the other members in other cells as possible in order 
to prevent the FBI or other agencies of Government from unraveling 
the whole thing, like grabbing on one end of a sock when you start 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6153 

that process? Isn't it a fact, therefore, that if there had been the 
kind of underground cell that Congressman Scherer mentioned that 
it would have been necessarily concealed from the rest of you who 
were not in that particular section ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I believe that would be the case. 

Mr. Scherer. Will you jdeld a moment, Mr. Clardy ? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. Of course we recall the testimony of Robert Glad- 
nick, who was before the committee in New York. He told us in 
great detail of the instructions he received and then later communi- 
cated to selected individuals with reference to sabotage. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I make this observation ? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I have in my hand this booklet which Mr. Velde called 
attention to a bit ago entitled "The American Way.'' I note that this 
was published in March 1954, and is apropos of what Congressman 
Scherer brought out and the witness testified to : That the die was al- 
ready cast, which had been determined by the Communist Party of 
the United States — that if a war did come between the United States 
of America and the Soviet Union it would of course be an aggressive 
war and the fault of the United States. 

Let me read one paragraph on page 20 of this booklet. I quote : 

At tlie same time, the Communist Party emphasizes that the issue at the 
present time is not communism ; the choice before our people today is peace, 
security, democracy versus the grip which the monopolists have on the country 
in their plans for fascism and war. 

Now that bears out the testimony of this witness that the Commu- 
nist Party in America has already determined that if there is a war 
it is at the fault of the United States of America. And this paragraph 
to a great extent, in my humble judgment, bears out that declared 
policy. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you, Mr. Doyle. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have a few more names that I wish to ask you about 
before the noon recess, Mrs. Hartle, not necessarily connected with the 
subject of underground which we have been discussing. 

Did you know a Hildur Josephine Hughes as a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell that name, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. H-i-1-d-u- r Josephine H-u-g-h-e-s. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you identify her further, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew Josephine Hughes as a member of the Com- 
munist Party in the south King region. I knew her for a time as 
branch chairman of the Eainier Vista branch. I have known her 
through functionaries' meetings and through south King County re- 
gional meetings, as a member of the Communist Party up to the time 
that I left Seattle in 1950. 

Mr. KuNziG. How about William Carl Shifferley ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew William Carl Shifferley as a member of the 
Communist Party, as an officer of the Communist Party in the Ana- 
cortes area, where he lived. I have met him at district "functionaries' 
meetings. 

Mr. KuNziG. George Russell ? 

48069— 54— pt. 3 3 



6154 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew George Russell as a member of the Communist 
Party in the south King region. He was a member with me of the 
Hal-Spring Club of the Communist Party, which was the aircraft 
club. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that the sum total of identification that you can give 
us on him ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew him as a member of tlie regional committee 
of south King County. He had been employed at Boeing's and was 
one of those fired by Boeing's after the strike, around 1946 or 1947. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. By the way, did you ever know a man by the name 
of Vernon Todd Riley ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I did, 

Mr. Scherer. What was your acquaintance with him ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew him as a member of the Communist Party in 
Spokane, Wash., in 1941-42. 

Mr. Scherer. Would you tell us a little more in detail about Vernon 
Todd Riley? 

Mrs. Hartle. I remember that he was transferred to Spokane from 
Seattle sometime in 1941, that I received the transfer and that I went 
to his house to become acquainted with him. I knew him as a member 
of a professional club in Spokane. I remember that he was an officer 
of that club, either chairman or educational director, and probably he 
actually held both of those offices. 

Mr. Scherer. Did he pay dues to the party, do you know ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, I am sure he had to pay dues in order to be a 
member. 

Mr. Scherer. You said you had received his transfer card ? 

Mrs. PIartle. His transfer, yes. 

Mr. SCHERER. Was his wife also a member of the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I do not remember or recall whether she was a member 
or not. She was present at some meetings. 

Mr. SriiERER. Do you happen to remember the wife's name ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, I don't. 

Mr. Scherer. How often have you had contact with Riley ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Oh, I met with him in quite a large, large number of 
meetings. He was present at a class, a district leadership class, that 
I taught also in Spokane. 

Mr. Scherer. At which there were only members of the Communist 
Party present? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, there were only members. 

Mr. Scherer, Would you say that he was an active member of the 
party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, he was one of the leaders of the Spokane section 
of the Communist Party at the time that I was organizer there in 1941 
and 1942, 

Mr. Scherer. T would like to make an observation, Mr. Chairman, 
with reference to Riley at this point in the record. 

Vernon Todd Riley, until October 20 of last year, was emj^loyed 
by the United States Government in the Department of Health, Wel- 
fare, and Education as a laboratory technician. It was only when this 
committee wrote to the Department on October 12 about Riley that 
he was suspended as of October 20 of last year. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6155 

The investigation of this committee indicated that there was in his 
personal file in the Civil Service Commission a report on his activi- 
ties, and the information contained in that file has been substantiated 
almost word for word by the testimony given here by this witness. 

Riley was suspended within a few days after the Department re- 
ceived the communication from this committee. Riley testified subse- 
quently in Chicago and denied membership in the Communist Party^ 
although he was identified by a number of other individuals. 

In view of this testimony, I think that this committee should con- 
sider the possibility of referring Riley's testimony to the Department, 
of Justice for perjury. 

Mr. Jackson. Certainly. On the facts as set forth by the gentleman 
from Ohio, there is every reason to believe that the matter will be taken 
up in executive session for the purpose of arriving at a decision as to 
whetlier or not all of the transcripts in the case will be forwarded to 
the Attorney General for possible issuance of a perjury charge. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have one more name that I would like to mention 
before the lunch break, Mrs. Plartle. 

Did you know Wayne Paschal as a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I did loiow him as a member. He was a member 
of the south King region of the Communist Party. He lived out past 
South Park — in that area — out near along ISIilitary Road somewhere. 
He was a leader in the south King region of the Communist Partj^ and 
he was a member of a small committee called the aircraft concen- 
tration committee, a committee which worked to devise policies to fur- 
ther the Communist Party's aircraft concentration policy. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now that ends this testimony at the moment, Mr. 
Chairman. 

I would like to make an announcement that it has come to the 
attention of the committee that Rev. Clinton Redwell, who was named 
here as a former member of the Communist Party yesterday, has ap- 
peared in the hearing room and he has stated that lie desires very, 
very much to testify before this committee. He has stated that he was 
a member in 1948 and 1949 and that he is an ordained minister of the 
east Texas conference of the colored Methodist Episcopal Church. 

I recommend respectfully, Mr. Chairman, that Rev. Clinton Red- 
well be heard at the conclusion of the luncheon recess. 

Mr. Jackson. It is of course the established policy of the committee 
that in tlie event anyone is named in testimony that he lias a right to 
appear to affirm or deny any such allegation ; and, without objection 
from any member of the committee. Reverend Redwell will be the 
first witness this afternoon when the committee reconvenes at 2 p. m. 

Is there anything further on the part of the members ? 

Mr. Doyle. Apropos of that, do I understand that he has informed 
the committee that he was a member of the Communist Party in 1948 
and 1949? 

Mr. KuNziG. That is correct, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, going back to Vernon Todd Riley, 
there are 1 or 2 questions I forgot to ask the witness. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you happen to know of any other individuals who 
knew Vernon Todd Riley as a member of the Communist Party? 



6156 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I do. 

Mr, SciiERER. "Would you furnish the staff with the names of those 
individuals ? 

Mrs. HxVRTLE. Yes ; I would be glad to do that. 

Mr. SciiERER. Is it more than one ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; it is several. 

Mr. ScHERER. The thing that I wanted to point out with reference 
to what I said about Eiley was the fact that most of the information 
that this witness related was in the files of the Civil Service Commis- 
sion for a number years but nothing was done with reference to Riley's 
employment by the Government of the United States until this com- 
mittee merely indicated that it was going forward with an investiga- 
tion insofar as Riley was concerned. 

Mr. Clardy. Wouldn't it be well at this point to ask her also to give 
the staff the names of places where she has met with Riley and the 
dates, if possible, of meetings that she has attended with him, and 
other details, so that we may be sure that we have all of the evidence 
that we need to submit to the Attorney General if we desire to do so ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I will be happy to give whatever information I have. 

Mr. Jackson". Mrs. Hartle, at a more appropriate time the com- 
mittee will express its thanks to you. I know that this is a consider- 
able and very tiring ordeal. We are most appreciative of your unfail- 
ing courtesy and your complete cooperation. 

With that, the committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock this 
afternoon. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 48 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 2 p. m.)^ 

1 Testimony of witnesses heard during the afternoon session is printed in pt. 5 of this 
series. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NOETHWEST AEEA— Part 3 (SEATTLE) 

(Testimony of Barbara Hartle— Continued) 



THURSDAY, JUNE 17, 1954 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee of Un-American Activities, 

Seattle, Wash. 

public hearing 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to recess, 
at 9 : 05 a. m., in room 402, County-City Building, Seattle, Wash., Hon. 
Harold H. Velde (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde 
(chairman) , Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, Clyde 
Doyle, and James B. Frazier, Jr. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; William 
A. W^heeler, staff investigator, and Thomas W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk. 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order, please. 

Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

I would like to recall to the stand this morning the witness who is 
now occupying the stand, Mrs. Barbara Hartle. 

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF MRS. BARBARA HARTLE, ACCOMPANIED 
BY SPECIAL UNITED STATES DEPUTY MARSHAL DOROTHEA 
HALL 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, the committee is considering at this 
time legislation which has been referred to it regarding the Taft- 
Hartley non-Communist affidavits. 

Will you tell the committee, please, what you know of the attitude 
of the Communist Party with reference to that requirement of the 
Taft-Hartley Act relating to non-Communist affidavits ? 

Mrs. HARTiiE. The general position of the Communist Party is 
that it opposes that particular section of the Taft-Hartley Act very 
strongly, although its general position is also that it opposes the whole 
Taft-Hartley Act. But the special attention and interest of the Com- 
munist Party was to that affidavit clause — very much opposed to it. 

However, when the time came that certain unions felt it necessary 
to comply with this act, the Communist Party leaders, it was reported 
to me, nationally — and discussions were held locally — decided that it 
would be necessary for some officers in some unions and for some unions 
to comply with this act instead of taking a flat-out stand of being 
against it and refusing to sign. And the reason that was given by 
the national Communist Party leadership was that to refuse to sign 

6157 



6158 COMMUNIST ACTR'ITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

this would mean that certain labor leaders would lose important union 
connections through, of course, not being able to sign it, would not 
be able to stay in their offices. So it was decided that some people 
would sign this affidavit, especially if they weren't too well known 
as Communists and — well, j^ou might say could possibly get by with it. 

It was decided also that others would refuse to sign it, especially 
persons whose offices weren't so important and persons who were so 
well known as Communists that they wouldn't be able to get away with 
it, so to speak. 

One of tlie approaches toward the problem that I heard about was 
that some of these officials who were going to sign, who had been and 
were members of the Communist Party, would send in letters of resig- 
nation to the Communist Party and resign from the Communist Party. 
I never did see any such letters sent in. I never did see any such let- 
ters, but I have heard discussion that such letters should be written of 
resignation. 

In a later period, I became aware of the fact that people who had 
signed the Taft-Hartley affidavit were not considered as being out of 
the Communist Party and that was in connection with the under- 
ground. I was informed, through the underground channels, from 
Henry Huff, that there were some persons in the Taft-Hartley class, 
the resignation class, if you please, who had to be organized sepa- 
rately in an underground way and that these persons would be attached 
to the underground party, the underground setup. 

This attachment was never fully made. One visit was made by 
Ralph Hall in the underground in an attempt to cret in touch with Giles 
Evans, a Communist Party member of Sedro-Woolley, who was sup- 
posed to have something to do with leading this Taft-Hartley setup. 

Tvalph Hall told me tliat he was not able to see Evans, that Evans 
was not available or made himself unavailable, and later Huff told me 
that these Taft-Hartley people were acting as though they believed it 
when they resigned from the Communist Party, that they weren't car- 
rying on their meetings, they weren't working in an organized way, 
and that this had to be corrected. 

The only other person whose name I learned in that connection was 
the name of Earl George in the Seattle area, who was also told to me 
by Huff to be in that category. 

Mr. Tavenner. By being in that category, you mean to actually 
sign the non-Communist affidavit but nevertheless to continue in Com- 
munist Party activities, is that correct? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that is the understanding that I had. These 
were called Taft-Hartley people. I had heard the discussions that they 
were to sign and send in letters of resignation. Whether they did so 
or not, I do not know. I never saw those letters. But they were called 
Taft-Hartley people, and they were. I was told they were thus or- 
ganized, and these names were given me. 

IVfr. Tavennkr. Now I understand that it was the purpose of the 
Communist Party, from what you have said, that those who were less 
important in the party should go ahead and resign their positions 
rather than to sign the non-Communist affidavits? 

Mrs. Harti.e. Yes, both less important in the party and less im- 
portant in the union office. 

Mr. Tavenner. But the real leaders of the Communist Party, who 
.were also leaders in their respective unions, were advised to sign the 
non-Communist affidavit? 



COMJNIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6159 

Mrs. Hartle, Yes ; that is the understanding that I had : That there 
were important Communists and important oliices, and that for them 
to refuse to sign woukl mean that they could no longer be officers and 
influence people in these unions and in the labor movement, and that 
this would mean losing important connections for the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now do I understand that the purpose of writing 
letters of resignation Avas to create a sham situation by which it would 
appear that the person was no longer an actual member of the Com- 
munist Party ; yet it was intended that he be organized underground 
so that his identity as a Communist Party member be kept in security ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; that is the case. What I heard about it was that 
it was merely a self-serving technicality. 

Mr. Tavenner. If that policy were followed, then the Taft-Hartley 
Non- Communist Affidavit Act would have no eft'ect for the purposes 
for which it was designed, would it ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; that would seem to me to be the case. 

Mr, Tavenner. That being true, it becomes more important than 
ever that labor unions be alert in discovering who among its leaders 
are actually members of the Comm.unist Party. Isn't that true? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; that is true. Some experience that I have had 
as a Communist in the labor movement has thoroughly convinced me 
that 1 or 2 alert labor leaders in a union, as to the Communist Party, 
can be a very effective bar to the Communist Party gaining entrance 
there. This is even recognized among Communists. It is even said 
that some unions are very difficult to get a start in because so-and-so 
are in there and are not apathetic about the situation but are on guard 
for their union. 

Mr. Tavenner. Alert leadership then within the union, you would 
say, is more important than any statutory provision that could be 
enacted ? 

Mrs. Hartle. It does seem that way to me from my experience. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, your knowledge and experience with- 
in the Communist Party has been so vast and over such an extended 
period of time that we have not in a short hearing such as this been 
able to cover anything like your full knowledge and experience in the 
party, but I believe at this time, rather than to discuss special pro- 
visions or special experiences that you have had in the party, we should 
go back and make it plain what the organizational setup of the party 
is in this area and then go a little further in the development of mem- 
bership in the Communist Party. I believe you have spolven of this 
as being district No. 12, is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; it has been known as district No. 12. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. And district No. 13 is the area to the south of here, 
comprising California and other States ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; that is so. 

Mr. Tavenner. What area is comprised within district No. 12? 

Mrs. Hartle. The State of Washington alone was in 1950, when 
I left Seattle, the area that comprised this district. It was then called 
a State organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. At an earlier date was district 12 more all-inclusive ? 

Mrs. Harti.e. Yes. When I first joined the Communist Party in the 
early 1930's, the district included Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and 
Alaska. 



6160 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the approximate dates when this 
district was divided into smaller districts, geographically ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The only actual change that took place was when 
Oregon, the organization in that State, became a separate State organ- 
ization in 1947. 

I think that I should explain that an attempt was made to make 
Idaho a separate State organization. How successful that was, I don't 
know. It was taking place at the time that I was leaving the area. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what category is Alaska now ? 

Mrs. Hartle. At the beginning of World War II, Andrew Remes 
expressed to me that there was no use in worrying about trying to 
keep contact with Alaska. After that time, during the war and after 
the war, I know of no organization in Alaska. It is possible, though, 
that individuals were writing back and forth. I do believe that 1 or 2 
branches had a member-at-large, in Alaska. Then in the latter part of 
the 1940's the waterfront section of the Communist Party spoke from 
time to time of a few contacts and members in Alaska. 

I do know of two members who went from Seattle to Anchorage 
and who kept contact with the Communist Party waterfront section 
after they left here, and that was Norman Carpenter and his wife. 

Mr. Tavenner. Returning now to district 12, relating to the State 
of Washington, will you tell us now how the organization is broken 
down into sections or branches ? 

Mrs. Hartle. In the last period that I was in Seattle and in the 
district, the organization was a district organization and then under 
regions. There was a region of northwest Washington ; there was a 
region of southwest Washington ; there was a region of Spokane, and 
usually called a section because it was smaller ; and there was a north 
King County region; a south King County region; and the water- 
front section which was not exactly a region but was more of a section. 
It was broken up that way. And there were clubs or branches or 
members besides that — small ones, like there are a few members in 
Vancouver, Wash., and in a few other places. 

Mr, Tavenner. Now were those regions broken up further into 
branches ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The regions were then broken up into sections. The 
big regions would have 2 or 3 or 4 sections. 

The region that I was the organizer of in 1948 and 1949 had 4 or 5 
sections of different areas. 

Mr. Tavenner. Which region was that ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That was the south King region, also called the air- 
craft region — aircraft concentration in that region. 

Mr. Tavenner. Since you have mentioned your work in that re- 
spect — I believe you have touched on it already in your testimony — 
where was that work centered in the aircraft industry ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The south King region of the Communist Party, 
through a district decision, had as its assignment, concentration on 
the Boeing Aircraft Co. workers to attempt to gain members and 
influence among the Boeing workers, and specifically in the Aero 
Mechanics Union, of course, as the method of doing that. 

Mr. Tavenner. The employees in that plant were not confined to a 
particular union, were they ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There is one main important union, the Aero Me- 
chanics there, but it was possible to recruit otlier persons into the 
Communist Party who were not in that one main local. 



COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6161 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, to what extent, 
if any, the Communist Party was successful, or unsuccessful, as the 
case may be, in its efforts to infiltrate that plant ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, my estimate of it — and I am certain that that 
was the estimate of the whole distiict leadership of the Communist 
Party — was that during tlie period of late 1947, 1948, and 1949, at the 
time that I was organizer in that region, that the efforts were almost 
entirely unsuccessful. From any standpoint of influence or success, 
you would have to say there was no success. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that not only was true as to the union or unions 
that you mentioned, but it was true as to employees generally in that 
point ; is that correct ? 

Mrs, Hartle. Yes ; that is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you assign any special reason for the failure 
of the Communist Party and its concentration in that field ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I am sure that the heightened security regulations are 
the main reason. I feel that there is a subsidiary reason that is also 
important, and that is that the unions of the Boeing workers have had 
experience with Communists in the past and were able to throw off 
Communist leadership and membership in the past, and this, in my 
opinion, had quite a great deal to do with the inability of the Com- 
munist Party to make any headway into the union. 

I often thought to myself, since I was especially assigned on that 
work and trying to make headway, that the Boeing Airplane Co. and 
the union must have found ways to guide their members away from the 
Communist Party, because the possibility of making progress seemed 
virtually impossible. 

;Mr. Tavenner. The failure of the Communist Party under your 
leadership, which I am certain must have been very capable, in its con- 
centrated effort at Boeing, deserves probably some study on the part 
of other great units of industry as to how communism may be suc- 
cessfully combated in industry. 

Now returning to the question of the organizational setup of the 
Communist Party, will you break down the sections to branches, as 
far as you can recall — I think jou would be more familiar with that 
in the regions in which you weve at one time an organizer— and give 
us the Communist Party membership of the branches, as accurately 
as you can recall ? 

In giving us the names of any persons who were members of the 
Communist Party, I wish you tvould bear in mind several very import- 
ant things : One is that we do not want surmise or speculation, which 
I am certain you are aware o f , as to a person's membership ; it should 
be based upon your actual kn owledge or based upon Communist Party 
activities known to you. 

I would like also that in ike event you give us the names of persons 
who were members and yon know that they were expelled at a later 
time or for any reason have withdrawn from the Communist Party 
that you also give the comittee the benefit of that inforraaii-"- 

Now with that instruction, will you proceed, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. After the breakup of the regions, then there was the 
breakup into the sections, and all of the regions in Seattle had these 
sections under them — 3 or 4 or 5 sections; and in the south King area 
there was a Duwamish Bend section. 



6162 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may we interrupt the testimony of 
this witness at this point and call another witness? 

Mr. Yelde. Yes, certainly. 

(Witness temporarily excused.) 

(^Vhereupon the committee proceeded to hear further testimony of 
Stanley William Henrickson, which is printed in pt. 6 of this title. 
At 9 : 45 a. m., he was excused from the stand, and the hearing con- 
tinued as follows:) 

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF MRS. BARBARA HARTLE, ACCOMPANIED 
BY SPECIAL UNITED STATES DEPUTY MARSHALL DOROTHEA 
HALL 

Mr. Tavenner. Before you start to further answer the question I 
asked you, Mrs. Hartle, about membership in the Communist Party, I 
recall that in your earlier testimony you referred to a person as a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party by the name of Jess Fletcher. You re- 
call that, do you ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. You referred to his having been a member without 
any further qualification. 

Do you know whether he is now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. It is my belief that he is not a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. On what do you base your belief ? 

Mrs. Hartle. On public statements of his that I have read in which 
he completely disavows any affiliation and expresses his opinion that 
the Communist Party is not a good organization but a bad one. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not he testified in the Can- 
well hearing and at that time made public the fact that he had been a 
member of the Communist Party and had withdrawn from it ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I recall that. 

Mr. Tavenner. And gave such facts to that body as he had within 
his knowledge ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; that is correct. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Do you remember whether or not he was expelled 
from the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He was expelled from the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall when or anything of the circum- 
stances ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I recall that he was expelled after giving his testi- 
mony. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he given a trial or a hearing ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I remember no trial. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Very well. Now if you proceed, please, to give us 
the names of those whom you know of your own personal knowledge to 
have been members of the Communist Party within district 12. 

Mrs. Harti.e. The names that I am most familiar with were some 
of those who were members in the South King region of the 
Communist Party, of which I was organizer in 1948 and 1949, and 
therefore very closely in touch with the membership. 

One of the clubs of the South King region was the Aircraft Club. 
It was also called the Hal-Spring Club. This club consisted of per- 
sons who had formerly worked in Boeing's but had been fired by Boe- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6163 

ing's. It consisted of a few persons who were then working in Boe- 
ing's, who were fired later, and it consisted of a few persons who never 
had worked in Boeing's but were in there either as wives of members 
or in some other capacity, to help keep this club going. Members in 
this club were : 

Vi Russell, she had worked in Boeing's and was not rehired after 
the 1946-47 strike. She lived quite far out in the south Seattle area. 

George Russell, her husband, who had also formerly worked at 
Boeing's, was not rehired after the strike and who was a member of 
this club and also lived in the same place as his wife. 

George Graham, a man who had worked at Boeing's, whom I had 
known as a member of the Communist Party in Spokane in the middle 
1930's, whom I did not know to be organizationally connected with 
the party until after he left Boeing's, at which time he became a mem- 
ber of this club, the Hal-Spring Club. He lived near the Boeing plant 
in South Park. 

Stacey Cole was a man who had been employed at Boeing's, who 
was also fired or not rehired, who lived in the central Seattle area 
around the Broadway district. 

Merrill Kimple, who had also formerly worked at Boeing's, who 
had not been rehired after the strike and who lived in the far north 
part of Seattle and was a member of this club. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not he is the same person 
who appeared on the witness stand here yesterday ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I do. That is the same person. 

I was a member of this club. I had never worked at Boeing's but 
as organizer of the South King region, with the objective of pene- 
trating Boeing's, it was considered advisable that I should be a mem- 
ber of this important club. 

Gus Carlson was a member of this club, because he was organiza- 
tional secretary of the region at the time, and he was a member of it 
for the same reason that I was. It was considered an important club, 
important to the whole region. He lived in the central area of Seattle, 
had been a former lumber worker, and I believe that about covers him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you continue with the membership in the South 
King region ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Some of the members of the South King region that 
I can remember — and some of these have been discussed before and 
perhaps I should just indicate that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where you recall their names having been men- 
tioned before, just omit that, please. 

Mrs. Hartle. Fern Kerr, wife of Frank Kerr, lived near Renton 
and was the literature director of the South King region. 

Leo Canafax, husband of Caroline Canafax who has been men- 
tioned. He was the press director of the South King region and lived 
in the Duwamish Bend housing project. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I interrupt you there ? 

Are you acquainted with Caroline Canafax ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there any relationship between Caroline Canafax 
and Leo Canafax ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, they are husband and wife. 

Mr. Ta"\t:nner. Do you know whether Caroline Canafax was known 
by any other name ? 



6164 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew her first as Caroline Newburger, and she 
was always called Kelly Newburger. Kelly was the name she was 
generally known by. 

Mr. Tavenner. The reason I mention that is that Reverend Redwell, 
who testified here yesterday, made reference to a person by the name 
of Kelly, who was responsible for bringing him into the Communist 
Party. Do you know whether that is the same person as Caroline 
Canaf ax ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes; that is the same person, and I know that they 
were both members of the same club, the Duwamish Bend Club. 

John Zobrist was for a time organizational secretary of the South 
King region and lived in the white center area. 

Jim Garretson was a branch chairman of the Highland Park branch 
in the Kenton area and lived in that Highland Park housing project 
and was expelled from the Communist Party. 

Mrs. Jim Garretson, his wife, who was a member of the Highland 
Park Club, lived also in the Highland Park housing project. 

Jolm Davis. I believe he has been mentioned before. 

Sally Davis, wife of John Davis, was a member of the Communist 
Party in the Kenton Highlands housing project club and was an oflicer 
of that club. 

Dale ]\Ialoney was a member of the Kenton Club of the Communist 
Party. 

Peter Lundin was a member of the Kenton Club of the Communist 
Party and lived in that area. 

Mrs. Peter Lundin, his wife, was a member of the Kenton Club of 
the Communist Party and lived in that area. 

Thorun Kobel was a member of the Kennydale Club of the Com- 
munist Party, lived in that area, and was chairman of that club. 

Koy Jackson was a member of a club in the Kenton area and was 
expelled from the Communist Party. 

Mrs. Koy Jackson, his wife, was a member of the Communist Party 
in the Kenton area. 

Dorothy Paschal, the wife of Wayne Paschal, who has been men- 
tioned before, was a member of a club in the Duwamish area, the 
Duwamish section of the Communist Party, and lived the same ad- 
dress out along Military Koad that I had described for Wayne Paschal. 

Zella Apt was a member of the South Park Club of the Communist 
Party, was organizational secretary of the Duwamish section and lived 
in the South Park area. 

Koy Apt, her husband, was a member of the South Park Club and 
lived in the same area. 

Douglas Apt, son of Zella and Koy Apt, was a member of the South 
Park Club and also lived with his parents at the same address. 

Mr, Velde. At this point, Mr. Counsel, I think we are ready for a 
short recess. 

After the recess I, as chairman, Mr. Clardy, Mr. Scherer, and Mr. 
Frazier will continue with these hearings, and I appoint Mr. Jackson 
and Mr. Doyle to preside at a hearing in executive session in the com- 
missioner's room. 

The committee will be in recess for 10 minutes. 

(Whereupon, at 10 : 07 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 10 :17 a.m.) 

(Wliereupon, at 10:25 a. m., the hearing was reconvened.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6165 

(Messrs. Jackson and Doyle are not present in the hearing room.)^ 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order, please. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time that recess was called, Mrs. Hartle, you 
were giving us the names of persons whom you knew to be members 
of the Communist Party in district 12. Will you continue please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Pearl Thrasher was a member of the South King region of the Com- 
munist Party. She had once worked at Boeing's and had been fired. 
She was for a time the press director of the Sou':h King region of :he 
Communist Party and before that had been elected and ;jerved as lep- 
resentative in the Washington State Legislature. 

Mr. Taven^^er. Do j^ou know Avhether or not she wafi a member of 
the Communist Party at the time she served in the legislature? 

Mrs. Hartle. I believe that she was. I have been told by Communist 
Party leaders that she was. 

John ^'t^atfon was a member of the Rainier Vallej section of the 
Communist l.^arty and an officer in the Rainier Yistn club, a I'fegro 
man, a young man, who lived in the Rainier Valley area. 

Bill Shemeria was a member of the Communist Party in the South 
King area, lived in the South Seattle-Rainier Valley area. 

Mr. Tavenner. ]\lrs. Hartle, may I make another suggestion ? 

In the event that you recall that any of the persons that you are 
naming are now deceased, do not make reference to them ; there would 
be no point in doing so. 

Mrs. Hartle. Bill Hughes, husband of Josephine Hughes, was a 
member of a Rainier Valley branch of the Communist Party in the 
South King region and lived near Lake Washington — south. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say he is the husband of Josephine Hughes ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you previously identified Josephine Hughes? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is her occupation, if you know? 

Mrs. Hartle. She was a teacher in the Seattle public-school sys- 
tem. That was her occupation, and she had been an officer of a club 
in the south King region. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she hold that office at the sam.e time that she 
was a teacher in the public-school system ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, sir ; she did. 

Dan Maletta was a member of the south King region in the Rainier 
Valley area and lived in that area. 

Mr. Tavenner, I think I should go back and ask you whether or 
not Josephine Hughes was discharged from her position as a teacher 
in the public schools ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I had read that in the newspapers since I had been 
arrested and had come back to Seattle. 

Harriet Pierce was a member of the Georgetown club of the Com- 
munist Party, of which I was also a member for a time, and lived for 
a time in tliat area. xYlso she lived and had a hamburger stand out 
on Bothell Way and still maintained her membership in that George- 
town club. She had once worked in the postal department and had 
been discharged and was interested in fighting the case and, when 
she received no interest from the Communist Party leadership, ap- 
parently did nothing further about it. 
* 

1 Concurrently with this public hearing, Representatives Jackson and Doyle were con- 
ducting an executive session which is printed in pt. 6 of this series. 



6166 COMRIUXIST ACTR'ITIES IN" THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mary Brodine was a member of the Geors^etown club of the Com- 
munist Party and lived on the west side of Beacon Hill. She was the 
chairman of the Georgetown club for a period of time. 

Ethel Roark was a member of the Georgetown club, was secretary 
of the club for a time, lived in Georgetown, where she had a small 
women's dress shop, 

Helen Bradley was a member of a club in the south King region 
out toward the T\niite Center area and lived in that area. 

Keith Bradley, her husband, was also a member of a club in that 
:area and also lived in that area. 

Mrs. Redwell, wife of Reverend Redwell, was for a short time mem- 
iber of the Duwamish Bend club and lived in the Duwamish Bend 
liousing project at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she leave the Communist Party at or about the 
same time that her husband testified that he left the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I believe she left it earlier. I believe she left on a 
vacation and became disconnected earlier, as I remember it. 

Cecil Daily was a member of the Georgetown club of the Com- 
munist Party ; lived in that area at that time. 

Mary Salvus. I believe she may have been discussed before. She 
was a member of the Alki club of the Communist Party in West 
Seattle, member of the women's commission of the district for a time. 

John Salvus, her husband, was also a member of the Alki club, lived 
in the Alki Point area, and had once been employed at Boeing's. 

Mrs. Phil Ceis, wife of Phil Ceis, was a member of the Alki branch 
of the Communist Party, lived on Alki Point, was a member for a 
short period of time, and never active in the affairs of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. I recall that you identified in the earlier part of 
your testimony a person by the name of Philip Luther Ceis. 

Mrs, Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the same person ? 

Mrs, Hartle. That is the same person. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that is the husband of the person you are now 
identifying? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct. 

Mr, Tavenner, I believe you testified in connection with the hus- 
band that he was a building contractor in the city of Seattle, 

Mrs, Hartle, That is correct, 

Mr. Tavenner. And that from time to time you received donations 
from him for Communist Party purposes? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; that is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you solicit and receive contributions from other 
persons in the community who were financially able to make substan- 
tial contributions to the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, most of the contributions that I collected did 
come from members of the Communist Party in the forms of a day's 
pay, month's pay, week's pay, in that type of campaion, beinc; in the 
organizational phase. However, T do remember that I collecfod funds 
sometimes from persons who did almost nothing but contribute funds 
and were a source of funds for the party. 

Ono of the persons whom T contacted 12 or 15 times for funds for 
the Communist Partv was Henry Shain, S-h-a-i-n. He had a drug 
store at about Eighth and Union, and T contacted him at that drug 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6167 

store a number of times and received amounts — oh, from* $10, $15, or 
$20 for the work of the Communist Party. And this varied during 
the period from 1943 to 1950. There would be lapses, but I would in 
some phase of work go back again and collect some funds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you pronounce that name again ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Shain. S-h-a-n-e is the way I have spelled it. I have 
also seen it spelled S-h-a-i-n.^ 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, may I inquire at this point ? 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, in many other hearings it has been brought 
out that ])eriodically and regularly contributions have been sought to 
keep the Daily Worker in operation. Was that true out here ? Was 
there a special campaign put on every so often with the sob story that 
it was going to fold up if the brethren didn't contribute ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, a part of the w^ork for funds in this district was 
for the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Clardy. You said something else. You used the word "substan- 
tial" in connection with the contractor a moment ago. What did you 
mean by that? Did he contribute regularly in some stated amounts 
that you can remember or what was the fact ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, by "substantial," in the field of work that I 
was in was that if someone gave $100 or $200, it w^as a great help on 
our quotas, because we ahvays had quotas to fulfill. How^ever, in the 
light of the whole district, you would not view $100 as what you would 
call a substantial sum ; it would be nearer $1,000 which would be con- 
sidered a really substantial contribution to the district. 

Mr. Clardy. This contractor or this man that you have identified, 
Witness 

Mrs. Hartle. Ceis. 

Mr. TA\Ti:NNER. The name of the contractor was Philip Ceis. 

Mr. Clardy. It was spelled oddly and I wanted to be positive. 

Then would you say that he contributed over a period of time in the 
amount of several thousand dollars ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, I think it could easily have added up to a couple 
of thousand dollars. 

Mr. Clardy. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you advise the committee more definitely as to 
the period of time over which you solicited funds from Mr. Shain? 

Mrs. Hartle. That was during the period of about 1943 to 1950. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Do you know of your own knowledge that he knew 
that you were a member of the Communist Party when he made those 
contributions ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I am sure that he knew that I was an officer of 
the Communist Party and that he knew very well who I was and that 
J was an officer of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. On what do you base your statement that he had 
that knowledge ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I base it on the type of conversation that we held and 
on the fact that he couldn't have known me as anything else in the 
city of Seattle, because that was my occupation and that was the work 
that I did morning, noon, and night. I had no other occasion to visit 
him for anything else except for the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you known openly in Seattle as a functionary 
of the Communist Party ? 

1 This individual testified on June 17, 1954, and gave his name as Henry Shain. 



6168 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I was an open functionary of the Communist 
Party from 1942 until 1950 and spoke regularly at all Communist 
Party closed meetings and spoke openly as a Communist many, many 
times. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Do you know whether or not during the course of 
the period when he was making these contributions that he had any 
other means of knowing that you were a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. If there had been the slightest doubt in his mind as 
to who I was or what he was contributing to, he could have found out 
from other persons with whom he was also associated, who I was. I 
have no reason to believe that he had any doubt at all. There was no 
reason to have any doubt. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a Communist Party meeting at 
which he was present ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I remember a Communist Party meeting to which 
he came in Victory Hall. It was called Victory Hall by the Com- 
munist Party, and that was at Third and Marion Street. It was in 
either 1943 or 1944. Or late 1943 or early 1944. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. Were these contributions made to you in cash or were 
there ever times when it was by check or money order or some other 
form ? 

Mrs. Hartle. They were made in cash. 

Mr. Clardy. Were any receipts issued by you ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, no receipts were issued. 

Mr. Clardy. You, however, had to account to someone above you, 
a little higher echelon, did you not? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, other persons, when I turned the money in, 
knew that I had collected the money and knew where it came from. 

Mr. Clardy. So that they could check back to see whether or not 
you were turning in all that you had collected ? 

Mr. Hartle. Yes. 

Mrs. Clardy. That is all, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mrs. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee what knowledge you 
have, if any, as to whether or not Mr. Shain was a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Remembering seeing him present at a membership 
meeting of the Downtown Branch was one of the things that led me 
to understand that he was a member, convinced me that he was a 
member, because no one else but a Communist would come. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the same meeting that you referred to a 
moment ago ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. At Victory Hall ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that a closed meeting of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That was a closed meeting. It was a branch meet- 
ing and a closed moeting, and I have seen his name several times on 
membership lists of the Downtown Branch in connection with reregis- 
tration work. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat would be the occasion for you to see such a 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6169 

list? Is that the official list of the Communist Party to which you 
refer ? 

Mrs. HL\RTLE. Yes, that was the membership list of the Downtown 
Branch. The occasion was that inasmuch as I was engaged in organ- 
izational and organizing type of work, I was always very much closely 
involved with the reregistration of the membership, and when I went 
into an area, into a club or section to help with the reregistration, 
in going over the list to see who was registered and who was not regis- 
tered and still had to be visited, I saw many of the membership lists. 
I definitely remember his name on that list. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there any other incident or fact which would 
have a bearing on your testimony that he was a member of the Com- 
munist Party ^ 

Mrs. Hartle. Well, about the only other way that I can describe 
his membership is that he was what I considered at least an inactive 
member of the Communist Party, that he was active at least within 
the Communist Party — that his main contribution to the Communist 
Party was in the line of making financial contributions and relatively 
small ones ; and whatever activity that he engaged in, if my memory 
serves me, was not within the organizational setup of the Communist 
Party, as such — I mean not as a branch officer or as a section officer 
or something like that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you advise the committee more definitely about 
the nature of the contributions which you solicited from him ; that is, 
the purpose for which they were to be used and to what extent, if any, 
you discussed those matters with Mr. Shain? 

Mrs. Hartle. AVell, the funds that I solicited from Mr. Shain were 
always direct funds for the Communist Party. The way I distinguish 
that is that there were so-called broader fund drives and broader names 
used in order to solicit funds around one issue and another from the 
people who were not members of the Communist Party, but I never 
found it necessary to explain to Mr. Shain what I wanted the money 
for or what it was to be used for. I came for the contribution and it 
was in the nature of to the sustaining fund of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Clardy. He knew then when you came in, without any word 
of explanation, what your mission really was ? 

Mrs. Hartle, Yes, that is correct. 

Mr. Clardy. It would have been superfluous then to have explained 
anything to him ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I think he would have thought I was a little bit stupid 
to explain it to him. I didn't have to explain it to him. 

Mr. Taveistner. Did you have any discussion with his wife on the 
subject of communism ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No. I did have a discussion with her one time. She 
was with him in Victory Hall and the only thing that I can remember 
about that is that she apparently very 'highly disapproved of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall about the last occasion ? When was 
the last occasion when you solicited funds from Mr. Shain? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I do. I remember making several contacts in a 
row. more or less on a montlily basis for a period in late 1949, early 
1950, on a sort of monthly sustaining fund basis ; for several months' 
period I made that contact with him and received funds. 

48069— 54— pt. 3 4 



6170 COMMUNIST ACTWITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. On those occasions did he ask you any question as 
to what use was to be made of the money which he was contributing ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No. What I did was walk into the store and wait 
until he wasn't busy and take the money and leave — on most occasions 
when he had customers. Sometimes we discussed one matter or 
another. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he refuse at any later date to make contribu- 
tions to the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Not to me he didn't. I didn't go back, because I went 
into other work, but he never refused ; the last contact was successful 
in getting funds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now you were identifying Mrs. Phil Ceis when we 
got into this subject. Will you continue, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. She was a member of the Alki branch of the Com- 
munist Party for a short period of time and lived in the Alki Point 
area. 

Horace Conrad was a member of the Communist Party in the west 
Seattle area and lived in that area. One of his main contributions was 
to paint signs for Communist Party affairs. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. C-o-n-r-a-d. 

Mabel Conrad was also a member of the Alki branch of the Com- 
munist Party, lived in that area. She has served as branch officer of 
a west Seattle branch in the south King region. She was also at the 
pame time an official in the Washington Pension Union. I believe her 
title was secretary. 

Emma Harman was a member of a branch of the west Seattle are;a, 
belonged to the Alki club. She had engaged in the past in legislative 
work, was a representative at the legislature. I did not know her then 
as a member of the Communist Party, but I have heard others discuss 
her as a member of the Communist Party at that time. I knew her in 
1948-49 as a member. 

Elmer Harman, husband of Emma Harman, lived at the same ad- 
dress as she did, was a member of the Alki braiich. 

Lorraine Hester was a member of the Alki branch of west Seattle of 
the Communist Party, was employed in some full-time capacity by 
the Washington Pension Union. I believe the title was treasurer. 

Alice Kinney. Her former name was Alice Balmer Kinney. She 
was a member of the west Seattle section of the Communist Party, had 
once been a full-time organizational representative of the Northwest 
district in the middle 1940's, worked full time for the Northwest 
district, and I Icnew her then as a member of the Communist Party. 

Katlierine Plumb, often known as "Ketch"" Plumb, was a member of 
a club in the west Seattle area in the 1948-49 period. I also knew her 
earlier when I first came to Seattle as the secretary of a section of King 
•County and worked with her then in that capacity, 

Mr. Tavennkr. Does that complete the names that you are presently 
able to recall from the south King region of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Tliere are several names of an earlier period, of 1942- 
45 that I was able to recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give them to us, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. One of those was Winifred Ceis, who was a member 
of the west Seattle section of the Communist Party and active in youth 
work of the Communist Party. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6171 

Another one that I can remember from that period is Rachmeil 
Forschmeidt, known as "Rocky." I knew him at one time as organizer 
of tlie west Seattle section of tlie Communist Party. 

John Goforth was a member of the south King County Communist 
Party organization in a ckib around the Wliite Center area, 

Mr. Tavenner. Now will you give us the names of those that you 
can recall who were known to you to be members of the central region 
of the Communist Party of King County ? 

Mrs. Hartle. In the 1947 and 1950 period — that was the last period 
that I was in Seattle and acquainted—during this period I remember 
John Lawrie, Sr. — and I believe that all of these people lived in the 
central area of Seattle and, if not, I will make note of it. Perhaps 
that will save time. 

I knew John Lawrie, Sr., as a member years ago of the district com- 
mittee and as a member of the district review commission in this latter 
period. He is an old-time member of the Communist Party. 

Paul Bowen, who lived in the south Seattle area but was organizer 
of the central region of the Communist Party. 

Clark Harper, who lived in the central region, was organizer of the 
central region of the Communist Party. 

Marian Camozzi Kinney. I believe she has been discussed. 

Jack Lawrie, Jr., son of John Lawrie, lived in the central area, was 
organizational secretary of the central region of the Communist Party, 
had worked at Boeing's and was not rehired after the strike. 

Betty Collins lived in that same area, had served as a branch officer 
in that area, to my knowledge, 

Ann Carlson was a member of a club in the central region and had 
as her assignment from the Communist Party work in the Progressive 
Party. 

Oiva Halonen was a member of the Communist Party in the cen- 
tral region, lived in that area and was connected with the national 
groups work of the district. 

Tiami Halonen, his wife, was a member in the central region, had 
held branch officership, was also interested in and connected with 
national groups work, specifically among the Finnish people. 

Lenus Westman was a member of a club in the central region and 
lived in that area. Most of his Communist Party activities were in 
mass work at that time, like the Progressive Party or election work. 

Bill Cumming was a member in the central region, lived in the Yes- 
ler Terrace housing project, 

Dorothy Cumming, his wife, also lived in the Yesler Terrace project 
and was a member of the ckib in that area. 

John Boan was a member of the downtown club, which is part of 
the central region, was a member of the Washington Pension Union 
and did his work for the Communist Party in that capacity. 

Abe Bolotin was a member of the central region of the Communist 
Party, belonged to a club in the Madison Street area and was a long- 
time member. I had known him in membership in the King County 
party from the time that I came until shortly before I left. 

Shorty Brooks, also known as William Brooks, which I believe was 
his given name, was a member of the downtown club of the Communist 
Party. He spent most of his activity in selling tickets on raffles and 
raising funds and traveled around on a motorcycle. 



6172 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Gladys Castle Young was a member of a club in the central region.. 
I had known her early as branch and section officer of the Communist 
Party and knew her then as a member of a club in that region. 

Ethel Kramer, member of the downtown club of the Communist 
Party, was active in selling People's World, especially near the 
farmers' market, and that was her main activity. She lived in the 
downtown area. 

Madeline Patteson or P-a-t-t-i-s-o-n — I am not sure of the correct 
spelling — known as "'Patty," was a member of the downtown club. I 
knew her once as literature director of the downtown club of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Paula Alexander, I believe, has been discussed. 

Ed JNIayovsky was a member of a club in the central region, was a. 
club officer and was known to me as a club officer. 

Ralph Davis was a member in the club in the central region. He is 
a Negro man. I remember that he and some other person, possibly his 
brother, played music for some affairs. I have seen him at Commu- 
nist Party meetings a number of times in the 37th district. 

Seward Frazier was a member of the Communist Party in the cen- 
tral region. He belonged to one of the oTtli district clubs in that area 
and lived in that area. 

Kater Sumler was a member in the central region, was a young 
Negro man and his Communist Party assignment was in youth work. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell his last name, please? 

Mrs. Hartle. S-u-m-1-e-r. 

Sarah Parker Avas a member of a club in the central region. She is 
an elderly Negro woman and was often active in helping get up social 
aft'airs for the Communist Party to raise funds. 

Louis Mouton was a member of a club in the central region who had 
transferred to that region during about this time from either Kirkland 
or Bremerton, and whom I had met with in my own home and spoken 
with about his transfer in his membership. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may we have a short break at this 
point? 

Mr. Velde. Yes, the committee will stand in recess for 10 minutes. 

(Wliereupon, at 11 : 12 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 11 :22 a.m.) 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 25 a. m., the hearing was reconvened.) 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order, please. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, you identified a few moments ago a 
person by the name of Lenus Westman as a member of the central 
region branch of the Communist Party or section of the Communist 
Party. Do you know whether that individual had been at any time 
elected to the Washington State Legislature ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I do know that he was at one time elected and 
served in the Washington State Legislature. 

Mr. Ta\tnner. Do you recall whether he actually served in the 
legislature or whether he was denied qualifications ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There was such a problem that I read about in the 
Washington New Dealer of that time ; and whetlier he actually served 
or not — I do know that there was a great problem before him as to 
whether he could serve or whether he was a member of the Communist 
Party and not eligible to serve. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6173 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the question of his Communist Party member- 
•ship involved in the question of whether or not he should be permitted 
to serve? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that was the question that was involved. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are not positive in your own recollection as to 
what the outcome of the dispute was, are you ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, I am not. I don't remember all the details of it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you recall whether or not he was per- 
mitted to serve? 

Mrs. Hartle. My impression was that he was permitted to serve, 
T:)ut I am not certain. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Have you completed your statement of your present 
recollection of membership in the central region ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There was an industrial section of the central region, 
and I do recall the names of some of the members of that industrial 
;section. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give them to us, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Elmer Thrasher was a member of this industrial sec- 
tion. He lived in the South Park area. His wife was Pearl Thrasher 
whom I have mentioned before. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe Pearl Thrasher was the one who was 
■elected to the State legislature, wasn't she ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, she is the one. Before going into the industrial 
section of the central region, Elmer Thrasher was for a short time 
organizer of the south King region of the Communist Party before I 
assumed that post. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not 
there was any important function that Elmer Thrasher performed in 
the industrial section of the party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He was chairman of a branch in the industrial section, 
in the building trades. He was a member of one of the building- trades 
lunions, the carpenters' union. 

Another one whom I recall is Ed Kroener. He lived in the Duwam- 
ish Bend area, in the Duwamish Bend housing project, with his wife 
Donna Kroener, who was a member of the south King region and the 
Duwamish Bend club, but he was a member of the industrial section 
inasmuch as he was a member of the machinists' union, local 79. 

Gene Robel, whom I have mentioned before, and Glen Kinney were 
•also members of this industrial section. 

John Neill was a member of the painters' branch in the industrial 
■section. 

Jack Bitterman, then husband of Ruth Bitterman, was a member of 
this section in the machinists' branch and was for a time chairman of 
that branch. 

Ray Campbell was also a member of the industrial section in the 
central region. He was a member of one of the A. F. of L. unions and 
in one of those branches, and he lived on Aurora, north — not on Aurora 
but in that Aurora north area is what I mean. 

(At this point Mr. Doyle returned to the hearing room.) 

Mrs. Hartle. There were other people that I can remember in the 
37th district branches in the 1942 to 1947 period, who at one time oi 
another wei-e members there. That was before the central region wag 
organized. Some of these names were : 



6174 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Herb Carr was a member who lived in the Jackson Street area, a 
Negro member of this 37th district branch. 

John Kagland was a Negro man wlio lived in this area and was a 
member of the branch for a time. 

Chuck Richardson was a member of the 37th district branch, lived 
in the 37th district area. 

These were branch members. 

And}^ Marshall was a member of the 37th district branch. He was 
employed for a time in a steel mill in the West Seattle area. 

(At this point Mr. Jackson returned to the hearing room.) 

Mrs. Hartle. James Taylor was also a member in this 37th district 
branch and dropped out of the party before I left Seattle. 

All of these persons that I have mentioned I do not remember as 
members after 1947. They either disappeared — and in the case of 
Taylor, I definitely know that he dropped out of the party — quit the 
party. ... - 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I dislike to have to interrupt the 
witness' testimony so frequently, but our schedule is so full that we 
have to work it in the best way we can ; and I would like to excuse the 
witness for the present time and call another witness. 

Mr. Velde. Very well. 

Witness was temporarily excused.) 

(Wliereupon the hearing continued with the testimony of Henry 
Shain, which is printed in pt. G.) 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NORTHWEST AKEA— Part 3 (SEATTLE) 

(Testimony of Barbara Hartle— Continued) 



FRIDAY, JUNE 18, 1954 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee on 

Un-American Activities, 

Seattle.) Wash. 

public hearing 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to recess, at 9 a. m., in room 402, County-City Building, 
Seattle, Wash., Hon. Donald L. Jackson (chairman), presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Donald L. Jackson, 
Gordon H. Scherer, and Clyde Doyle. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; William 
A. Wheeler, staff investigator ; and Thomas W. Beale, clerk. 

Mr. Jackson. The committee will be in order. 

The Chair would like to make an announcement at this time to the 
effect that due to the heavy schedule and the fact that a number of 
important witnesses have not been heard up to this time the committee 
will be in session tomorrow, Saturday, from 9 a. m. until 5 o'clock in 
the afternoon. 

Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. Call your first witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, please. 

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF BARBARA HARTLE, ACCOMPANIED BY 
SPECIAL UNITED STATES DEPUTY MARSHAL DOROTHEA HALL 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, at the time that I asked you to step 
aside from the witness stand yesterday you were giving us the names 
of persons known to you to have been members of the Communist Party 
in King County in the State of Washington. 

Will you continue, please, with other regions or sections of King 
County and give us the benefit of your information as to Communist 
Party members ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Ed Carlson was a member of the South King region of the Com- 
munist Party, a member of the South King regional committee for a 
time, and was also in the machinists' branch of the Communist Party 
in the industrial section at one time. 

6175 



6176 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

ISIargaret Donaldson was a member in the Duwamish Club of the 
Communist Party in the South King region, lived in the Duwamish 
Bend housing project for a time. I especially knew of her member- 
ship through a conference between herself, myself, and Ilalph Hall 
regarding her membership status and some problems that she had 
regarding her child. 

flames and Kuth Cleland were members of the Communist Party 
in the -JTth district area in between 194:2 and 1947, and I knew them 
somewhere between that time as members of the Connnunist Party 
and attended their club meetings with them during that time. 

In the Yesler Terrace branch of the Communist Party I remember 
an Eleanor Schneider, and I remember that she was expelled from 
the Commmiist Party. 

In the downtown branch of the Communist Party, in between 1942 
and 1947 I remember Jack Blair as a member and remember that he 
was expelled from the Communist Party. 

I also remember George Crowley, who was also organizer of the 
35th district section for a period of time, and he was expelled from 
the Comnmnist Party. 

I also remember Howard F. Smith in the downtown branch of the 
Communist Party. I remember that he was an owner of a hotel in 
the Jackson Street area and also that he was expelled from the Com- 
munist Party. 

In the downtown area I remember Al Meservey as a member of the 
branch and have attended branch and King County functionaries' 
meetings with him. 

I also remember Cecil Stoner as a member of the Communist Party. 
I discussed his membership with him in the district office of the Com- 
munist Party at a reregistration period when I reregistered him, as- 
signed him to a branch. 

I remember Vince Valdoster Price as a member of the Communist 
Party, and I remember him in connection with his attendance at dis- 
trict and King County Negro commission meetings, meetings which 
were closed except to members of the Communist Party. 

Also, in the Rainier Valley area lived Forrest Crumpley. I have 
attended King County functionaries' meetings with him in the middle 
1940's. 

Mr. Tavenner. Those you have mentioned to this point have been 
chiefly from the south region of King County ; is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The south and central region also. 

I do remember some names from other regions, many of them 
through functionaries' meetings, through being officers or in some way 
active. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean other regions of King County or oth^r 
regions of the State ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Of King County and other regions of the State as 
well. 

Mr. TA^T.NNER. Let us confine ourselves at present to the various 
regions of King County. Then we will proceed to the others. 

What about the north region ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The north King region in the period of 1937-50 — I 
remember, besides persons who have already been mentioned, Charlea 
Legg, Avho resided in the interbay area. I have met v\ith him in meet- 
ings of the Interbay Club of the Communist Party. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6177 

Kobert Barnes lived in the north end of Seattle. I have met with 
him in King County functionaries' meetings. He has been an officer 
of a section of north King County. 

I remember Margaret Barnes", his wife, also attending King County 
functionaries' meetings. 

Eugenia Allen, who lived in the Ballard area and with whom I have 
attended King County functionaries' meetings. 

Weir Allen, who also lived in the Ballard area, husband of Eugenia 
Allen, and with whom I have also attended Communist Party meet- 
ings, including branch meetings in Ballard. 

Annabelle Camozzi Bitterman. I knew her as Annabelle Camozzi. 
1 knew her as a section organizer of a north King section and have 
attended King County functionaries' meetings with her. 

Joseph Butterworth was a member of a professional type of branch 
in north King County. I have attended King County functionaries' 
meetings with him. He has been an officer of a branch in north King 
County. 

Bart Hamilton was a member of north King region. I have attended 
functionaries' meetings with him and held personal conferences with 
him regarding Communist Party special assignments of work. 

Nellie Irish is an elderly woman. I knew her as a member of the 
Communist Party in north King County and have attended King 
County functionaries' meetings with her. 

Dorothy Kistler was a member of the Communist Party, lived in the 
north King region. I have attended King County functionaries' meet- 
ings with her. 

Berta Pettus was a member of the Communist Party in the north 
King region, lived in the Lake Union area in a houseboat. Her hus- 
band was Terry Pettus, one of the defendants in the Smith Act trial. 
I knew her as being assigned by the Communist Party to work for 
the People's World Northwest edition. 

John Daschbach was a member of the north King area of the Com- 
munist Party. I knew him as a member of the district committee. I 
knew him as having Communist Party assignments in the labor school, 
the Pacific Northwest Labor School, and the Civil Rights Congress. 

Vivian Stucker was a member and officer of the north King region 
of the Communist Party and lived in the university district area at 
that time. 

Marjorie Daschbach, wife of John Daschbach, also lived in the north 
King area, was a member of that region. I have met with her in func- 
tionaries' meetings of King County. 

Ed Alexander was north King regional organizer of the Communist 
Party, had been a district committee member, had been district edu- 
cational director. He was expelled from the Communist Party. 

Loris Hall was a member of the north King region of the Com- 
munist Party. I have met with her in meetings regarding women's 
work of the Communist Party and in King County functionaries' 
meetings. 

From an earlier period, between 1942 and 1947, 1 remember several 
names of members in the north King area. 

Bridget Guilmet was a member who lived in the north Seattle area 
and I have attended Communist Party meetings with her. 

Dolores Remes was the wife of Andrew Hemes. I have attended 
King County functionaries' meetings with her and have attended large 
district board meetings at which she was present. 



6178 COM]MUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Kay Steam was a member and officer in one of the north Seattle 
sections and I have attended King County functionaries' meetings 
with her. 

Victor Case. I have discussed his Communist Party membership 
with him in the presence of Andrew Remes and I have met with him in 
King County functionaries' meetings. 

Jim Carruthers and Marian Carruthers, husband and wife. I have 
attended King County functionaries' meetings with them. 

W. A. Bouriie, I knew as a member in a north Seattle-Ballard chib 
and knew tliat he was a member of a hnnber union. 

In the very early 1942-44 period, I remember some members in the 
Queen Anne section of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. What particular area of King County was the Queen 
Anne section allocated to? 

Mrs. Hartle. It is in the north King County area. 

I might explain that in that earlier period there were separate sec- 
tions instead of a whole region of north King County. 

In the Queen Anne section in about the 1942-44 period I remember 
Genevieve Baker, wdiom I knew as an officer of the Queen Ann section. 

Perry Baker, husband of Genevieve Baker, whom I also knew as an 
officer of the Queen Anne section. 

Alice Friel, whom I knew as an officer of the Queen Anne section. 

Helen Hautala, whom I knew as a member of a branch in the Queen 
Anne section and have met at her branch meetings with her, have 
personally discussed her membership with her. 

Fletcher Jarvis was a member of one of the clubs in the Queen Anne 
section, an officer of one of the clubs, and I have attended club and 
functionaries' meetings with him. I also knew him in a still earlier 

geriod in the late 1930's as a member of the Communist Party in 
pokane, Wash, and attended functionaries' meetings with him there. 

Elmer Strom I knew as a member of the Communist Party in the 
Queen Anne area and have attended his branch meetings with him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not he holds any position 
with the city government in Seattle ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I do not know what he is doing now. I do recall 
that at that time he was connected with the fire department. 

Mrs. Elmer Strom, wife of Elmer Strom, and known as Queenie 
Strom, was a member of a club in the Queen Anne section, and I have 
attended her branch meetings with her. 

Elsie Jarvis, wife of Fletcher Jarvis, was a member of a club in the 
Queen Anne section. I have attended her club meetings with her. 
Mrs. Jarvis has either been expelled or dropped by the Communist 
Party. I remember that she was quite strongly in disagreement with 
some of its policies and ran into difficulties over her membership. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any other section or region of King 
County which you have not covered ? 

Mrs. PTartle. Yes. I believe that I can remember some names 
from the waterfront region. I have some of those. 

James K. Bourne was organizer of the waterfront section of the 
Communist Party — full-time organizer, and he was expelled from the 
Communist Party. 

Margaret Backlund, wife of Carl Backlund, a member and officer 
in the waterfront section of the Communist Party and expelled or 
suspended from the Communist Party. 



•COI^IMUNIST ACTWITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6179 

Mr. TA^^NNER. I believe that you have identified Carl Backlund 
earlier than this in your testimony, have you not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think I should state, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. Carl 
Backlund is under subpena. He has advised the staff of the commit- 
tee that he was a member of the Communist Party. He has cooperated 
in giving the staff information within his knowledge, and I think 
that statement should be made at this time so that his position would 
not be misunderstood. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that he has withdrawn from the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Hartle. Yes, I believe that lies within my knowledge, too. 

Grace Mutch, known as "Tootie" Mutch, was a member of the water- 
front section of the Communist Party, and I have met with her in King 
County and waterfront section functionaries' meetings. 

Burt Nelson, a member of the waterfront region of the Communist 
Party, chairman of the longshore branch in that region. I have known 
him as a district committee member and have attended many district 
and King County functionaries' meetings with him. 

Gus Rystad was a member and officer of the waterfront region. I 
have attended waterfront and King County functionaries' meetings 
■with him. He was in the longshore branch of the Communist Party. 

Eobert Kinney, in the waterfront region of the Communist Party. 
I have attended waterfront and King County functionaries' meetings 

with him. 

Jean Harding was a member of the waterfront region. I have at- 
tended waterfront and King County functionaries' meetings with her. 

Mabel Belka. I have attended waterfront and King County func- 
tionaries' meetings with her. 

Carl Ranta was a member and officer in the waterfront region, I 
have attended waterfront and King County fimctionaries' meetings 
with him. 

Nell Ranta, his wife. I have attended waterfront and King County 
functionaries' meetings with her. She was an officer of the waterfront 



region 



Larry Rogers was a member of the waterfront region. I have at- 
tended waterfront and King County functionaries' meetings with him. 

Earlier members in the waterfront section that I remember in about 
a little after the middle 1940's— about 1946-47—1 remember Steve 
Glumas as a member of the waterfront section and have attended 
King County functionaries' meetings with him. 

And I remember Neil Crowe and have attended waterfront and 
King County functionaries' meetings with him. Both of these to the 
best of my knowledge have left the area, and that is why I didn't see 
them after that period of time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that constitute the names that you are now able 
to recall who were members of the Communist Party within King 
County ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There are a few additional names that I recall that I 
don't believe that I have mentioned. 

I recall Vince Davis as a member of the Communist Party. I 
handled his transfer into this area from the Pennsylvania district, 



6180 COIMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

and I knew him as having a Communist Party assigmnent in Progres- 
sive Party work. 

Two additional names from the Queen Anne area I remember, in the 
earlier period, Dave Mero — in the 1942-44 period— as a member of 
the Communist Party and have attended branch and functionaries' 
meetings with him. 

I remember in the North King County area as additional name — • 
Wyman Logan. I remember him as helping to operate the Commu- 
nist Party bookstore, known then as the Workers Book Store, in con- 
junction with his wife Beatrice Logan. I have attended King County 
functionaries' meetings with him. 

Mr. Taatenner. Does that testimony virtually exhaust your present 
recollection of Communist Party members in King County? 

Mrs. Hartle. I believe it does to a great extent. I probably could 
think of additional names, but these are ones that have come readily 
to my mind and that I knew well. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you proceed now to give us the names of per- 
sons whom you recall, from your personal knowledge, who were mem- 
bers of the Communist Party in other regions and in other section 
organizations of the Communist Party in the State of Washington — 
or I may say, in the district, which would have included, I believe,. 
Idalio. 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct, it would include Idaho for a part of 
the time. 

From the northwest Washington region in the latter period of the 
Communist Party organization I remember William "Red" Wallace, 
who lived in Bellingham, whom I knew as section organizer of the 
Communist Party in Bellingham and whom I knew as active as a 
Communist Party member in the International Woodworkers of 
America, IWA. 

Mrs. William Wallace, who lived in Bellingham, wife of William 
Wallace, whom I knew as an officer of the Bellingham section of the 
Communist Party. 

Brook Carmichael, whom I knew as a member of the Communist 
Party in the northwest Washington area. I have attended northwest 
Washington and district functionaries' meetings with him, knew him 
as active as a CP member in the IWA. 

Ellie Henderson, wife of Stan Hendei^son,^ whom I knew as a mem- 
ber and officer of the Everett section of the Communist Party. 

Mel Luddington, whom I knew as an officer of tlie Everett section 
and of the northwest Washington region of the Connnunist Party. 

Algot Starr, whom I knew as a member in the Everett section of 
the Communist Party, have attended Everett Communist Party meet- 
ings with him. 

Frank Batterson, whom I knew as organizer of the Everett section 
of the Communist party. 

Al Nygren, whom I knew as Everett section organizer of the 
Communist Party. 

Margaret Nygren, wife of Al Nygren, wliom I knew as section 
secretary of the Everett Communist l*arty. 

On the Olympic Peninsula I remember Vivian Gabaury. I have 
attended district functionaries' meetings with her as a representative 
from the Port Angeles area. 

1 Identified on p. 6149 as same individual as Stanley William Hendrickson» 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6181 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe there are other persons from these general 
areas whose names you have mentioned earlier in your testimony and 
that you are not now duplicating your testimony by naming them 
again, is that correct ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That is correct. There are others in that area. 

Did you wish me to name them again ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No ; I just wanted to make your testimony clear on 
that point. 

Mrs. Hartle. In the Everett area I remember Verle Hemeke. I 
have attended Everett and district functionaries' meetings with him 
and knew him as a Communist Party member in the IWA. 

In the southwest Washington area I remember Ed Crabtree. I 
remember him as press director of the southwest Washington section 
and have attended district functionaries' meetings with him. 

I remember Blackie Meyers. I have attended southwest Washington 
functionaries' meetings at which he was present. 

Leona Moir, wife of Gordon Moir. I remember her as secretary of 
the southwest Washington section of the Communist Party. 

In Tacoma I remember Mary Sutherland, an officer of the Tacoma 
section, have attended Tacoma and district Communist Party func- 
tionaries' meetings with her. 

Robert Decker, a member and officer of the Tacoma section of the 
Communist Party in the latter period of my officership in the party 
in Seattle. I knew him earlier also as a Communist Party member 
in Seattle and attended King County functionaries' meetings with him 
in the earlier 1944 period. 

John Collins I knew as a member of the section committee of the 
Tacoma section. I have attended Tacoma and district functionaries' 
meetings with him. 

Naomi Ellison I have known as a member of the section committee 
of the Tacoma Communist Party and have attended Tacoma and dis- 
trict functionaries' meetings with her. 

Victor Ellison, husband of Naomi Ellison. I have attended district 
functionaries' and Tacoma functionaries' meetings with him. I have 
known him in the latter 1930's as a district committee member and as 
organizer of the Tacoma section of the Communist Party. 

John Greenman I have known as a member of the section committee 
of the Tacoma Communist Party and have attended Tacoma and dis- 
trict functionaries' meetings with him. I was a fellow delegate with 
him to the Communist Political Association convention in 1944 in New 
York, at which time the Communist Party was dissolved and the CPA 
set up. 

Clara Saari. I have attended Tacoma and district functionaries' 
meetings with her, have known her as dues membership secretary of 
the Tacoma section of the Communist Party. 

I have known a Mr. Hopkinson as a member of the Tacoma section 
of the Communist Party and as a person who was active as a Com- 
munist in the Washington Pension Union. 

Bob Patrick. I have known him as an officer and member of the 
Tacoma section of the Communist Party. I knew him formerly as a 
member and branch officer of the King County Communist Party, and 
I knew him also as organizer at one time of the Spokane section of 
the Communist Party. 



6182 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Jo Patrick. I knew lier as a member and officer of the Tacoma sec- 
tion of the Communist Party. I knew her previously as a Kin<T County 
member and functionary and as a Spokane member of the Communist 
Party. 

I remember the names of a couple of people in the Grand Coulee 
branch — A. Whiteside. I remember him as chairman of the Grand 
Coulee branch of the Communist Party. 

Rachel Grant. I remember her as secretary of the Grand Coulee 
branch of the Communist Party. I have met with both of these per- 
sons in branch meetings of the Grand Coulee branch in Grand Coulee. 

I remember a Mr. Peterson as a member of the Grand Coulee branchy 
whom I had known earlier as a member of the Communist Party in 
the Bainbridge branch of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you able to recall his first name ? 

Mrs. PIartle. He was called Pete, and I do not know his initials. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give further identifying information as to 
where he may have lived at different periods ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He did live on Bainbridge Island and was a member 
of the Bainbridge Club of the Communist Party. Then he worked for 
a while in the Grand Coulee area and I met him there and discussed 
his membership with him on a trip to Grand Coulee, and I knew him 
there as a member of the Communist Party. 

In an earlier period, 1942 to 1944, 1 remember the names of several 
persons in the Seattle industrial section. 

One was Herb Johnson, with whom I have attended King County 
functionaries' meetings and who was at that time in the boilermakers^ 
branch of the Communist Party. 

I remember Ed Friel as full-time organizer of the industrial section 
for a period in this time that I have mentioned. 

I remember Dorothy Jackins, wife of Harvey Jackins. I remember 
her as secretary of the Industrial Section of the Communist Party. 

I remember Marjorie Rabbitt, wife of Tom Rabbi tt, at a later 
period, who was a member of an aircraft branch of the Communist 
Party. 

I remember Bill Corr, who lived in the south Seattle area and was 
a member of the Welders' Branch of the Communist Party. 

I remember the names of some members from Spokane and Idaho, 
from the time that I was the organizer of the Spokane section and of 
the Inland Empire Council of the Communist Party, 1941-42. 

Some of the names tliat I remember are Roy Lampitt— I have at- 
tended Spokane functionaries' meetings with him. 

John Clark. I have attended Spokane functionaries' meetings with 
him. 

Herman Schulz. I have attended Spokane functionaries' meetings 
witli him and knew him as a member of the railroad branch. 

]\Iaybelle Wheeler. I have attended Spokane functionaries' meet- 
ings with her and knew^ her as the dues membership secretar}'^ of the 
Spokane section, 

Grace Dahlke. I have attended Spokane functionaries' meetings 
with her and have known her as an officer of a club in the Spokane 
area. 

Harold Eddings. I have attended Spokane functionaries' meetings 
with him and have known him as an officer of the Spokane section.. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6183 

Genevieve Eddings, wife of Harold Eddings. I have attended 
Spokane functionaries' meetings with her and have known her as an 
officer of a chib of the Spokane section. 

Earl Carpenter and Emma Carpenter. I knew them as members 
and officers of the Spokane section in that period. 

Vernon Riley I believe has been mentioned. 

John Hartle I knew as a member of the Communist Party and as an 
officer of the railroad branch of the Communist Party. 

Lawrence Braman. I knew him as a member of the railroad branch 
of the Communist Party in Spokane. 

Harlow Wildman. I knew him as organizer of the Spokane Com- 
munist Party and replaced him when I assumed that position. I knew 
him later as a Communist Party member carrying on his assignment 
in the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers' Union in Idaho. 

Ralph Wildman. I knew him as a member of the Communist Party 
in the Spokane area. 

Jan Meyer. I knew her as a member for a short time of a pro- 
fessional branch of the Communist Party in Spokane. 

Charles Powers. I knew him as a member of the Idaho section of 
the Communist Party. I knew him as carrying on his assignment 
for the Communist Party in the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers' 
Union in the Wallace-Kellogg area, 

Al Manley. I knew him as organizer of the Coeur d'Alene section 
of the Communist Party and Mrs. Al Manley, his wife. I knew her as 
an officer of the Coeur d'Alene section of the Communist Party. 

Fred Siefken. I knew him as a member of the Communist Party 
in Coeur d'Alene, and as carrying on his Communist Party assignment 
in a lumber union in Coeur d'Alene. 

I had several additional names from the Spokane area: 

William Graham. I have met with him in his branch meetings in 
Spokane. I knew him as a member of a lumber union in the Spokane 
area. 

Frank Shanks. I have met in Spokane functionaries' meetings with 
Frank Shanks. I had known him in an earlier period as a member of 
the Communist Party as well and knew him to be for a time business 
agerit of the Carpenters' Union of the Communist Party in Spokane, 
while he was a member of the Communist Party. 

IVIrs. Frank Shanks, wife of Frank Shanks. I have known her as a 
member and branch officer of the Communist Party in Spokane. 

Norman Best. I have known him as a member of the Communist 
Party in Idaho and also in Spokane. I have attended both Idaho and 
Spokane functionaries' meetings with him. 

Kay Best, wife of Norman Best. I have attended Communist Party 
meetings with her in Idaho and in Spokane. 

Evelyn Simmonds. I have known her as a member and branch offi- 
cer of a club of Spokane. I have attended functionaries' meetings of 
the Communist Party with her in Spokane. 

In an earlier period 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, before vou go into the earlier 
period 

Mr. Chairman, this, I believe, is a convenient place for a 5-minute 
break. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. The committee has received a number of 
telegrams which I will read during that time. 



6184 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST ARE^ 

(At this point Mr. Jackson read a number of communications which 
appear in the record in the appendix to these hearings.) 

Mr. Jackson. I might say to Mrs. Hartle that while you were out of 
the room a rather lengthy letter was read from Lois Blakes, who says 
that she has broken completely with the Communist Party. She ex- 
tended her congi-atulations to you, stating that she confirmed in every 
respect the testimony that you are giving. 

Mrs. Hartle. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you continue, please, with your testimony re- 
lating to those earlier who were members of the Spokane-Idaho group ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There are three names that I recall from the 1941-42 
period from the Idaho area. One of those is Lloyd Brooten, whom I 
had known in the late 1930's as organizer of the Coeur d'Alene sec- 
tion. I knew him as a member in this period of the Coeur d'Alene sec- 
tion and met with him in Inland Empire Council meetings. 

Opal Brooten, his wife. I knew as a member of the Coeur dAlene 
section, an officer of the Coeur d'Alene section. I have met with her 
in Inland Empire Council meetings of the Communist Party. 

Red Brooten, a brother of Lloyd Brooten. I have met with him in 
Idaho functionaries' meetings of the Communist Party. 

In an earlier period, 1933-39, in between those years, I remember 
the following members of the Communist Party : 

Jim Haggin, who was a member of the section bureau of the Com- 
munist Party of Spokane, of which I was also a member. 

Caroline Ilaggin, wife of Jim Haggin, who was a branch officer of 
a club of the Communist Party in Spokane. 

Art Furnish, who was a member of the section committee of the 
Spokane Communist Party and a leader in the unemployed work of 
the Communist Party in the Unemployed Councils and in the Workers' 
Alliance. 

Harry Crumbaker, who was a member of the section committee of 
the Spokane Communist Party. 

Red Perry, who was a member of the Spokane Communist Party 
and a salesman of the Daily Worker on the streets of Spokane as his 
Communist Party assignment. 

George Berner was a member of the section committee of the Spo- 
kane Communist Party and a Communist Party leader in unemployed 
work. 

Joe AVin})urn, who was a member of the Communist Party in 
Spokane and active in unemployed work. 

Elizabeth Schneider was a member and officer of a club of the 
Communist Party in Spokane. 

Ed Lehman was a member of the Communist Party in Spokane. 
I signed his passport for him to go to Europe. He told me that he 
was going to go to Spain to take part in the armed conflict there. I 
was told later by district officers that he had deserted in Spain. I was 
also told that he had told of his disillusionment with that whole ven- 
ture in an article in the Saturday Evening Post. 

(At tliis point Mr. Scherer left the hearing room.) 

Mrs. Hartle. J. H. Van Orman was section organizer of the Com- 
munist Party in Spokane. 

Ruth Van Orman, his wife, was section secretary of the Communist 
Party in Spokane. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6185 

Ernest Wallace was a member of the Downtown Club of the 
Communist Party in Spokane. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, have you identified a person by the 
name of Nels Spencer Ekroth ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I have known Nels Ekroth as a member of the Com-. 
munist Party in the waterfront section and have attended waterfront 
section functionaries' meetings with him in the latter 1940's. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is the waterfront section of Seattle ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Of Seattle, correct. 

From Spokane I also remember Stan Iverson. I remember him as 
full-time organizer of the Communist Party of Spokane in the latter 

194:0'S. 

(At this point Mr. Scherer returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Earlier in your testimon}^ you gave us the name 
of William "Red" Wallace at Bellingham and you stated that he was 
assigned to work in the IWA. Am I correct in that ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; tlvat was correct. 

(At this i^oint Mr. Doyle left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that indicate that members of the Communist 
Party were assigned to infiltration of that union ? 

Mrs. Hartle, The Communist Party had a concentration policy in 
this district and one of the concentrations was to secure influence and 
membership of tlie Conmiunist Party in the lumber industry. This 
was addressed to the whole lumber industry and addressed to all of 
the unions — CIO, A. F. of L., or whatever; it wasn't specifically ad- 
dressed to the IWA. The facts of the matter are, though, that the 
Communist Party made more headway in the IWA than it did in 
other unions — lumber unions. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of the headway which it made ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The nature of the headway was that it was quite suc- 
cessful in the lumber field and especially in the IWA and in the lum- 
ber organizations that preceded the IWA. The IWA had other 
names, I know, in the past and changed the names, but was the same 
group of people — the same group of workers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the Communist Party successful in obtaining 
the election of Communist Party members to important positions with- 
in that union at any time? 

Mrs. Hartle. From at least the middle 1930 's until I left Seattle in 
1950, the Communist Party did have considerable influence in the IWA. 
At times it had members as international officers and district officers, 
special district 2 officers, and it always had a number of local union 
officers. 

I think that I should add that by 1950 this influence had suffered 
some serious setbacks, and at least to my knowledge the main influence 
of the Communist Party that remained in the IWA was in the district 
2 or the northwest Washington district. 

Mr. Tavenner. To what do you attribute this setback to Communist 
Party work within that field? 

Mrs. Hartle. I attribute it to the general educational campaign 
about communism in the main, and that there were forces and officers 
in the IWA who seriously resisted Communists having control or in- 
fluence in that union. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then again we cannot overestimate the importance 
of people prominent in their own fields in resisting communism, 

48069— 54— pt. 3 5 



6186 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

whether it be labor or whatever it might be — being alert and active 
in resisting communism ? 

Mrs, Hartle. Yes, I believe that is true, and especially in the or- 
ganized labor field. Labor union officials or members will have more 
influence on other labor union members and officials than probably 
other persons might have. 

Mr. Taven^ster. It may be well for you at this time to advise the 
committee as to the names of persons who were known to you to be 
members of the Communist Party who secured positions of influence 
and leadership in any of the unions within the activity of the lumber 
industry. 

Mrs. Hartle. The most important officer of the Communist Party 
in the IWA was Karley Larsen, whom I knew as president of district 
2 and for a period as an international officer in the IWA. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how recently he has held an inter- 
national office? 

Mrs. Hartle. About 1948. 

Another important officer of the Communist Party in the IWA was 
O. M. Orten, also known as Mickey Orten. I was present with him 
when he was a delegate at the 1938 national convention of the Com 
munist Party. 

William Wallace, whom I have already mentioned, was for a period 
president of district 2 of the IWA, while a Communist, while Larsen 
was an international officer. Wallace I have also known as an officer 
of the Bellingham local of the IWA. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you mean to identify Wallace as a member of 
the Communist Party — as an active member ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, as a member. 

These things that I speak of don't have any reference to the union, 
as such, but they have reference to persons who were Communist Party 
members and active members at the time that they held these offices. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me interrupt you at this moment. 

What was the policy of the Communist Party with reference to let- 
ting the rank and file members of a union know of the Communist 
Party membership of the leader that you were endeavoring to have 
elected to various offices within unions? 

Mrs. Hartle. The general policy was that the Communist members 
in a local would know that they were voting for a Communist and 
would be rallied to mobilize support for him to see that he was elected. 
In some situations there might oe variations of not letting the mem- 
bers know that he is an actual member of the Communist Party but 
certainly giving strong direction of — "This is a progressive left- 
winger that needs to be supported" — leaving no doubt. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, the Communist Party members 
always Imew of the membership of the individual but the rank and file 
members of the union would not know ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The rank and file members of the union in very many 
cases would not know, unless that official came out openly as a Com- 
munist, which was not done too often. 

Mr. Tavenner. Therefore if, as a result of the alertness of the union, 
the possible alertness of this committee and other governmental agen- 
cies, the rank and file members of unions can learn of the true identity 
of the Communists in their midst, it would go a long way toward 
solving the problem, wouldn't it? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6187 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. I have seen that problem solved already in 
unions in which I was trying to help penetrate as a Communist. I have 
seen that worked that way. 

(At this point Mr. Doyle returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names of other 

Mr. ScHERER. Pardon me. 

You say you have seen it worked that way. Do you have any specific 
instances where this committee has identified individuals ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I was thinking, when I said that, of examples in 
Spokane. When I first joined the Communist Party, the Communist 
Party pointed out to me the importance of working in A. F. of L. labor 
organizations, whereupon I became a member of the Railway Women^s 
Auxiliary, of which my husband was a member of the union, and be- 
came a fraternal delegate to the CeiUral Labor Council, and in that 
way tried, as a Communist, to help build Communist membership in 
A. F. of L. unions. 

There were some business agents and some officers of A, F. of L. 
unions in Spokane as far back as 1935 who were very alert to the mean- 
ing of this Communist penetration and combatted it so successfully 
that in some of those locals it was even impossible to secure one mem- 
ber for the Communist Party, and that is the kind of example that I 
was thinking of. 

Mr. Doyle. And that was away back in 1935 ? 

Mrs. Hartle, Yes, there were such officers of unions in the Spokane 
A. F. of L. who were very alert and who were very much disliked by 
the Communist Party for their ability to keep their members from 
joining the Communist Party. 

Mr. Jackson. At this time, Mrs. Hartle, under the instructions 
issued by the chairman of the committee, you will be excused from the 
stand in order that you may proceed in custody to Portland, Oreg.^ 

Mrs. Hartle, I wish to thank the committee very much for letting 
me express my opinions here. 

Mr. Jackson. We appreciate it very much and we understand that 
you will be back tomorrow. 

(The witness was temporarily excused and the committee proceeded 
to hear testimony of other witnesses which is printed in pt. 7 of this 
series. 

^ See pt. 9, for testimony of Barbara Hartle in Portland. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
PACIFIC NOKTHWEST ABEA— Part 3 (SEATTLE) 

(Testimony of Barbara Har tie— Continued) 



SATURDAY, JUNE 19, 1954 

United States House of Representatives, 

subcomittee of the committee on 

Un-American Activities, 

Seattle^Wash. 
public hearing 

The siibcomniittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to recess, at 9 a. m., in room 402, County-City Building, 
Seattle, Wash., Hon. Donald L. Jackson (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Donald L. Jackson 
and Clyde Doyle. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel, William A. 
Wheeler, staff investigator; and Mrs. Billie Wheeler, acting for the 
clerk. 

Mr. Jackson. The committee will be in order. 

Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir, 

Mr. Jackson. Call your first witness. 

And let the record show that a quorum of the subcommittee ap- 
pointed by the chairman, Mr. Velde, is present at this time. 

(Whereupon the committee called another witness, Johsel Nam- 
kung, whose testimony appears in pt. 8, following which the proceed- 
ings were as follows:) 

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF MRS. BARBARA HARTLE, ACCOMPANIED 
BY SPECIAL UNITED STATES DEPUTY MARSHAL DOROTHEA 
HALL 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, when it became necessary to interrupt 
your testimony yesterday, we were discussing the activities of the 
Communist Party in endeavoring to infiltrate the International Wood- 
workers Union. You told us something about that and you were in 
the process of giving us the names of persons known to you to be mem- 
bers of the Communist Party who were active in the task of infiltrating 
that organization. I am not certain just where you stopped in your 
recital of the Communist Party members who occupied that category. 

Mrs. Hartle. I believe that I was starting to talk about Giles Evans, 
who was a member of the Communist Party in the northwest Wash- 
ington region and an officer of the Sedro Woolley local of the IWA. 

6189 



6190 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EN" THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Another person was Brook Carmichael, Sr., who was a member of 
the Communist Party in the Everett area and a member of an IWA 
local also in that area. 

Gorden Moir I knew as a Communist working in the IWA union 
in the Raymond- Aberdeen area. 

William Graham I knew as a member of the Communist Party in 
Spokane and as a member of the Spokane IWA local. 

Algot Starr, whom I have mentioned as a member of the Communist 
Party, was a member of an IWA local in the Everett area. 

Walter Belka, whom I have already mentioned as a member of the 
Communist Party in another connection, I also knew as working as 
a Communist as an officer of district 2 of the IWA. 

Fred Siefken, whom I have already mentioned as a Communist in 
Coeur D'Alene, Idaho, was a member of the IWA — an officer in 
Coeur D'Alene. 

A. A. Fisher, whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party, 
I met with in meetings and conferences, especially in regard to Negro 
work in the IWA and work concerned with trying to open up job possi- 
bilities for Negro workers in the IWA. I knew him also to be a mem- 
ber of the IWA in the Everett area and knew of him as a member of 
the CIO council. 

Ted Dokter, whom I have already mentioned as a member of the 
Communist Party, was a member of the Raymond- Aberdeen area, 
IWA. 

Ray Glover, whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party, the 
Enumclaw branch of the Communist Party, and whom I had met 
with in branch meetings in that branch, I knew while he was a Com- 
munist Party member as an official of the IWA local of the Enumclaw 
area, 

William Shifferly, whom I have already mentioned as a Communist, 
was a member of an IWA local in the Port Angeles area. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe again to me, please, what his 
particular work was in the Communist Party or his affiliation ? 

Mrs. Hartle. He was a member of the Communist Party in the Cle 
Elum County area or organization of the Communist Party. I have 
met with him at district functionaries' meetings. I have known him 
as an officer of the Cle Elum County organization of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now have you given us the names of all that you 
can presently recall who were members of the Communist Party and 
who were affiliated with the IWA ? 

Mrs. Hartle. To the best of my recollection I have given the names 
of those who I was sure were members of the Communist Party and 
members of the IWA at the same time. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you told us yesterday that Mr. Karley 
Larsen was the most prominent of the members of the Communist 
Party who were affiliated with that union ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, tliat is so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you refresh our recollection, please, as to the 
objective of the Communist Party in concentration of effort within 
lumber^ 

Mrs. Hartle. The Communist Party's concentration ])olicy in the 
Northwest district has always put lumber at the very top, as the one 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6191 

important industry to pay attention to in an attempt to gain Com- 
munist influence and Communist membership. 

This concentration policy was addressed to the whole lumber in- 
dustry. By that I mean A. F. of L., CIO — if there would be any 
independent lumber unions or even unorganized lumber workers. 

The Northwest district's greatest success and greatest activity, 
though, has been in the IWA, the International Woodworkers of 
America, and in that of the predecessors of that organization, as it 
went through different stages of organization and had other names; 
but it was comprised of more or less the same groupings of workers, 
with the same plants and employees involved. 

A great deal of attention has been paid by the northwest district 
to its members and leaders in lumber unions, and from the middle 
1930's until I left Seattle in 1950 the Communist Party has always 
had considerable influence in the IWA. This influence included inter- 
national officers, district officers, and special district 2 officers ; but by 
1950 this influence had waned considerably and was not as strong — 
the Communist Party influence was not as strong by the time I left 
in 1950 as it had been in former times. 

During this time the Communist Party was able to influence the 
policies and activities of the organization of the IWA to a consid- 
erable extent and many Communist-sponsored resolutions and policies 
were able to be gotten through the IWA and spoken on by the IWA 
during that time — policies that the Communist Party supported and 
advocated in its mass work and in its trade-union work. 

Mr. Tavenner. What person within the Communist Party was 
charged with the responsibility of organizing and executing Commu- 
nist Party plans within the International Woodworkers of America, 
if any single person was charged with that responsibility? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, there was a single person charged with that 
responsibility and that person was Karley Larsen. In addition to 
that, a part of the concentration policy was that the top district full- 
time officials of the Communist Party also divided up the concen- 
tration, and the particular concentration that a top district official 
took was Henry Huff who had, as an assignment, special attention 
to lumber, as I had, as a district official my attention concentrated on 
aircraft. 

Mr. Tavenner. And Mr. Huff was the No. 1 Communist func- 
tionary in this area, was he not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, he was. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you have mentioned a person by the name 
of Margaret Barnes during the course of your testimony. 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you refresh the recollection of the committee 
with regard to her and be certain that you give us all the facts within 
your knowledge regarding her? 

Mrs. Hartle. I knew Margaret Barnes as a member of the Com- 
munist Party in the north Seattle area. I have met with her in branch 
meetings and in functionaries' meetings of the Communist Party. 
I have no doubt of her membership. I have discussed her member- 
ship with her and I have known here well enough to know a great deal 
about her personal life and her background. I often discussed with 
her the fact that at one time or another we had both been waitresses, 
and I have no doubt in my mind that she was a member of the Com- 



6192 COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

munist Party, for at least a year — at least a year a member of the 
Communist Party in the north-end area. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you also refresh the recollection of the com- 
mittee with regard to Harry Crumbaker ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Harry Crumbaker was a member of the Commvinist 
Party in Spokane, Wash. He was a member for a period of the 
section committee of the Communist Party when I was also a member 
of the section committee. He was recruited into the Communist Party 
while I was in Spokane; I knew when he came into it. I have at- 
tended many Spokane functionaries' meetings with him. I have dis- 
cussed the Communist Party and his membership in it with him many 
times. 

I also know that he left the area in the late 1930*s, and from then 
I do not know whether he was a member after that or not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether at 
any time the Communist Party maintained a school of any character 
at Buckley, Wash. 

Mrs. Hartle. I have no recollection of a school at Buckley, Wash. 

Mr. Taven^ner. Do you know the approximate number of persons 
whose names you have given the committee during the course of your 
testimony ? 

Mrs. Hartle. My estimate is that it is more than 300. I have not 
counted them. I would imagine it to be that. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask you to give further thought and study 
to this question, so that the committee may continue its interrogation 
of you, although it may not be able to do so in open session ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I think perhaps I can answer now, in saying that I 
was able to recollect the names of about 300 persons — members, and 
that I was able to note them down; but I realize that I have not 
covered all of my notes and perhaps have not quite reached that, not 
having counted the names. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what the ap- 
proximate strength, numerical strength of the Communist Party was 
in your district, district No. 12, and particularly in Seattle, during the 
past 5 years — at its peak during the last 5 years ? 

Mrs. Hartle. That question is difficult for me to answer for the 
last 5 years, because when I left Seattle in 1950, from that time for- 
vfard I was never furnished with the number of membership and was 
not able to see charts the way I had done before. 

Mr. Ta\'t:nner. Let me put the question this way : 

"V\niat is the largest number of Communist Party members in district 
No. 12, to your recollection? 

Mrs. Hartle. The largest membership of the Communist Party in 
this district, to the best of my recollection, was in about 1939. At 
that time the aim of the Communist Party was to achieve a member- 
ship of 5,000 in this district. A goal was set to achieve 5,000 mem- 
bers. That meant that at least 1,000 more members had to be re- 
cruited — somewhere in that neighborhood — and meant that about 
4,000 were already members. My recollection is on that basis — that 
the district wanted 5,000 members and wanted to reach that goal. It 
was to be a high mark in the Communist Party of this district but had 
not yet reached that goal and needed to recruit about 1,000 members 
in order to make that goal, which then makes about 4,000 members. 
I also remember that the goal was not achieved. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6193 

Mr. Tavenner. You say that the peak of the membership was in 
1939. Why is it, if it is true, that the membership began to shrink in 
the Communist Party in this area, if it did shrink ? 

Mrs. Hartle. My opinion is that the membership began to shrink 
in that period because the Communist Party program and policies 
after that period came in more direct conflict with the opinions of the 
American people, especially in regard to the international situation. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have no knowledge at the present time of the 
membership of the Communist Party in district 12, do you? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. ^^^len was it that you determined to leave the Com- 
munist Party as a member or to terminate your membership ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I think it is correct to say that I decided to leave the 
Communist Party and to terminate my membership on the day that 
I went to the FBI on March 12 of 1954. 

I had thought that I had quit before then; I had desired to quit 
before then. I even quit paying dues before then and quit going to 
meetings before then, but in my mind I very sincerely believed that I 
quit the Commimist Party on the day that I went to the Federal Bureau 
of Investigation. I have had no doubt in my mind since that I quit it. 

Mr. Tavenner. That action, of course, made all connection with the 
Communist Party a thing of the past ; it made your termination com- 
plete in every respect. And I suppose, is it not true, that when you 
finally decided to take that action, it was easy from then on? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, that was the case; I had no more harassment 
from Communists after I went to the FBI. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now will you tell the committee, please, the cir- 
cumstances which led up to your decision to go to the FBI with the 
information that you had ? 

Mrs. Hartle. After I was arrested and was brought back to Seattle, 
I was expelled by the Communist Party, and about a week later I was 
reinstated on some sort of a basis, I was informed, to neither of which 
I answered yes or no. In my own mind I thought I had quit the 
Communist Party. 

I decided to go through the trial, to take whatever sentence that I 
received and to serve that sentence and to come back to my own life 
after that was over. 

I went through the trial in a very strained circumstance: I think 
I was in a sort of no-man's land during that trial ; I was at odds with 
the Communist Party and I don't think that anyone else had any very 
good idea of just what I was doing or what I was thinking. 

After the trial was over, I agreed to be the last one out on bond, so 
^hat I would not have to be involved in Communist activity of raising 
bail for the rest of the defendants still in the jail. I came out on bond 
and went home to my family on a farm in eastern Washington. I was 
still determined never to be a member of the Communist Party again 
or engage in that activity, but I also said that I would go through with 
my sentence. 

I came back to Seattle and then attempted to find a way to make a 
living, to go through this very difficult period while the appeal was 
being carried forward, and to try to get through it some way or another. 
With me it was just a matter of time. 

When I came back to Seattle around the 1st of March, this was evi- 
dently taken as a signal by the Communists here that I had a 



6194 COMMUNIST activities in the pacific northwest area 

change of heart and wanted to get back into activity. I was so in- 
formed by one of the persons who spoke with me. I assured him that 
niy health was bad, that I had to earn my living, that I did not wish 
to run around to all kinds of meetings, that I did not wish to speak 
out on all kinds of political questions, that I wanted to be a defendant, 
that I wanted to earn my living, that I was going to serve my sentence, 
and that was all. This did not deter the Communist leadership from 
pursuing me. I remember 1 day when 3 different groups of people 
came to me ; every day someone came and wanted to involve me in one 
or another activity. To put it very bluntly, I was being put on the 
spot as to whether I was going to remain a Communist and speak to 
the Communist Party or whether I was going to be an "enemy." 

The Communist Party succeeded in helping me make up my mind 
about it. I finally asked myself, "Wliy is this inordinate pressure 
necessary. Why is it necessary to absolutely and totally insist that I 
have to choose between the Communist Party and between renouncing 
the Communist Party ? Why doesn't the Communist Party leave me 
alone and leave me in this middle no-man's land ?" 

Then, as a result of more and more pressure, as a result of using 
my name without my permission in a signed article that was printed 
in the People's World, as a result of trying to force me to sign a docu- 
ment of greetings to another Smith Act defendant, that I did not wish 
to sign, and becoming nasty with me about it, I thought of that — why 
this pressure had to take place — and I realized something that I just 
had not seen before — that what many people say about the Communist 
Party is true and not slander and not lies. 

I had believed before that a great deal of what was said about the 
Communist Party was just an attempt to stop its work, and I realized 
that the same pressure that was put on me to force me to continue as 
a Communist, and letting me know that I would be in the worst kind 
of grace and an enemy if I didn't do so, was the same kind of pres- 
sure that the whole Communist movement uses, that the Government 
of Russia uses against the people. And the moment that I discovered 
that, I realized how blinded I had been, how indoctrinated I had 
been — that I had been truly mentally enslaved. 

The term "mental enslavement" may sound like a propaganda term 
to many people, but when you have once been mentally enslaved your- 
self , it is no longer a propaganda term ; it is true — I have experienced 
it. I detest.it. I hope with all my heart that many, many present 
members of the Communist Party will think that over. 

Mr. Taventner. Yes. Let me say this to you, Mrs. Hartle: You 
are now speaking for the record ; you are speaking to countless thou- 
sands of people who will see this in cold type. You are also speaking 
over the television, through the means of television, to a vast audience 
with many persons who have been members of the Communist Party 
but who have not had the courage to take the stand that you have 
taken here, and you are speaking to a great many people who are still 
deeply involved in the Communist Party and who likewise have not 
had the courage to take the step that you have taken; and if you have 
anything to say to them, now is the time to say it. 

Mrs. Hartle. I do think I took advantage of the opportunity to 
express my very sincere convictions about this matter. With me it is 
not a matter of just having cast aside one political faith to accept 
another one; with me it is casting aside a bad way of life for a good 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6195 

and a better way of life, and I think that I want to say now, although 
I am a woman and a middle-aged woman at that, that with what I 
have found out, with the new freedom and joy that I have, that I am 
ready to give my life for my country any day in a figlit against Soviet 
Russia or any other Communist country. And that is the way I feel 
about it, and I think the way I feel about it is more important than 
the things I have said about it. 

Mr. TA\rENNER. Mr, Chairman, I have no further questions, except 
to say that we desire to continue, as the opportunity presents itself to 
the com.mittee, to study the question of communism with this witness 
and to olbtain her full and complete knowledge of the subject, which 
in this hearing we have only covered in a very meager way. 

Mrs. Hartle. I wish to thank the committee again for the oppor- 
tunity to express myself. I do know thousands of people in this State 
and all of those thousands, through these means, through the news- 
papers, and through the radio and television can know that I at least 
didn't go down the whole long road of trying to overthrow our Gov- 
ernment and trying to serve world communism. And I am very 
happy that they know that I at least have turned away from that path 
and have had my eyes opened and my mind set at rest about a conflict 
that has been going on over a period of years in my mind. And I 
thank the committee for that opportunity. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask this very helpful 
witness just a few questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. Mrs. Hartle, I think all of the members of this com- 
mittee are lawyers, except Mr. Jackson, and that is what makes it 
such a "pretty good committee," as we lawyers say. 

But I have not forgotten that almost your very first words to this 
committee referred to your divorce, and you said, "I never found 
out why the divorce was necessary." I think that was the exact 
language, as I recall it. Now what are we to understand by that? 
Did you receive directions from the Communist Party to get a divorce 
even though you had no grounds for it? Is that what we ai'e to 
understand ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No, I don't think that would be true. It wouldn't be 
true to say that I had no plans for a divorce, because I did have plans. 
I think what that means is that when I was brought as a full-time 
worker for the Communist Party to Seattle, the officers of the Com- 
munist Party knew that I was separated from my husband and prob- 
ably thought that I was planning divorce — and I was planning divorce. 
I think the reason the district officers prevailed upon me to go right 
ahead and secure my divorce was to make certain that I wouldn't 
change my mind and that they wouldn't lose a full-time district func- 
tionary that they wanted. That is what I think can be understood 
from that. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, if you were divorced and had no family 
ties, you logically could give more time to the Communist Party than 
if you had a husband or any other family requiring any of your 
attention? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. There was always the danger of a reconciliation 
and of going back to Spokane and wanting to live a family life. That 
is what I believe was behind that — telling me that I had to have a 



6196 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

divorce in order to run for office. I had never known that that was 
necessary in the past. 

Mr. Doyle, Now you have talked about your own experiences in 
havino; been mentally enslaved and have named about 300 people to 
your personal knowledge who were members of the Communist Party 
during the time that you were in it, and you fixed a peak load or mem- 
bership of between 4,000 and 5,000 people in the Communist Party back 
in 1939, to your personal knowledge. In making allowance for the 
fact, as you say, that the membership strength has ^yaned since that 
time, why is it that more members of the Communist Party of the 
Seattle area have not come forward and testified as you have ? Why is 
it that so few of them come forward if they liave a sense of being men- 
tally enslaved or if tliey have had an awakening^ Why have so few 
of them come forward and volunteered to help their Government 'i 

Mrs. Hartle. I believe the main reason that people don't come for- 
ward and help our Government is that they are still confused in their 
mincls, thinking that to do so has something to do with the freedoms 
under our Constitution ; and, as I see it, it does have something to do 
with the freedoms under our Constitution, but in exactly the opposite 
way from wdiat these people think it does. I think that my testifying 
here helps to guarantee those freedoms under our Constitution and our 
Bill of Rights and our Government. If this Government were to be 
taken over by communism, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution 
would be thrown out the window. And I think they miss the point ; I 
think that is the point that they miss. They are mentally enslaved to 
the point of thinking that they are doing something— they are doing a 
little something for democracy by refusing to testify. This is the 
degree of mental enslavement that the Communist movement has over 
persons, and it is a serious thing, but once it is seen it is quite a simple 
thing— it looks quite simple once it is seen by a pei-son. 

Mr. Doyle. Now I understood you to say that the policy of the Com- 
munist Party was to get to the top in the lumber industry in the North- 
west, controlling it, with Communist Party activities. Whj in the 
lumber industry ? What relationship, if any, does the lumber industry 
have to involve it with the conspiracy of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The Communist Party, especially since the reconsti- 
tution of the Communist Party in 1945, has said that if it is going to 
be a party of the working class and it is going to lead the working class 
to the assumption of power and to maintaining that power in order to 
build socialism that it must have strong influence among the workers 
and that the most important w^orkers are the basic industrial workers; 
and the main industry of the State of Washington, having been lum- 
ber, lumber was high on that list. Other important industries, con- 
sidered important by the Communist Party as basic industries were 
marine and aircraft, and there were other concentrations in certain 
areas on railroad or on a steel mill or some other basic industry. 

The Communist Party does not say that it is interested in these 
basic industries in order to be able to strike and foul up the econorny 
in case of war or any of those things. It puts its position forward in 
this way — that the Communist Party has to have the basic industrial 
workers, because they are important. It does say, though, that in all 
struggles and in influencing the rest of the labor movement the workers 
in the basic industries are the most important, they being of the most 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6197 

influence, and a strike in a basic industry has a great deal more effect 
on the whole labor movement than if you were able to organize a 
strike in a small service industry. 

Mr. Doyle. I noticed that you said a minute ago, "I agreed to be the 
last out of jail on bail." Then you stated why. With whom did you 
agree to be the last out on bail after your conviction in the Smith Act 
trial? 

JVIi'S. Hartle. After the conviction, Henry Huff proposed the order 
of release and proposed me last on that list, and I agreed to that for 
the reasons that I gave. His reasons I know for having me the last on 
the list was that I had broken the discipline of the Communist Party. 

]Mr. Doyle. Under Public Law 601, Mrs. Hartle, under which this 
committee is authorized to function, and which was passed in the 79th 
Congress, we are also charged with the commission of investigating: 
subversive activities and propaganda in the United States as coming" 
from foreign countries or originating in our country. We are also 
charged with the responsibility of making recommendations to the 
United States Congress in the field of legislation to better meet the 
problem of subversive activities in this country. Therefore, may I 
ask you, have you any suggestions to this committee in the held of 
additional legislation or different legislation, assuming that you are 
familiar with the legislation which exists now on the statute books^ 
is tliere any suggestion that you have to this committee in that field ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I am not familiar with all of the legislation or with 
proposals for legislation, etc., but I do liave a general suggestion, 
which is that any legislation which will expose Communist personnel 
activity and organizations — labeling them or identifying them would 
seem to me to be important, because if Communist activity is labeled 
or identified, and publications are identified to the people that they 
are sent to and addressed to, it will help them a great deal in making 
up their minds as to whether they want to be associated with it or not. 
And if a paper like the People's World, Northwest Edition, were 
known to all the people that it was sent to as being a Communist paper, 
then at least in all decency and fairness they could choose whether 
they wanted to have a Communist paper or not. I think it is a ])art of 
our democracy that the people should know and not be fooled as to 
what they are dealing with and choosing about. 

Mr. DoYT.E. I am not sure of the extent to which our distinguished 
counsel has had you go into the subject of this next question. I didn't 
hear all of the testimony, as I was out of the room during some of the 
time — but I am perhaps more interested in the extent to which the 
Communist Party in America advocates the judgment necessary to the 
use of force and violence, if that is the ultimate need in their judg-ment. 
What is your opinion on that subject? As I read Marxism-Leninism, 
and if I understand the result of the Duclos letter, to which you re- 
ferred, back in April 1945, the ultimate position of the Communist 
Party in the United States is that if the capitalists resist the taking 
over of control Avithin the United States of America, ultimately, then 
the Communist Party is justified in overcoming the resistance of the 
capitalist class, referring to the American system of free competitive 
enterprise, by the use of force. Am I in error, substantially, on that ? 
If I am, I want to be corrected. 

Mrs. Hartle. No, there is no error in that. The Communist Party 
uses a lot of — quite a long chain of reasoning in this country about 
that question. 



6198 COMMUNIST ACTWITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

First I should say that the Communist Party of this country, like 
those of other countries, base themselves fully on the works of Marx- 
ism-Leninism. They study them, circulate them and say they are 
Marxist-Leninists. In the basic works of Marxism-Leninism, it is 
clearly stated that the aim of the Connnunist movement is to seize 
power and keep it, and in many, many places in these books there is 
very little argumentation about whether it is right to do so or the 
tactics about it. The bitter facts are there — that that is the aim 'and 
that should be done, that the workers have to expect to use arms. 

In the Communist Party in the United States, the position has been 
taken that it does not advocate the overthrow of the United States 
Government by force and violence, and this has revolved especially 
around the Smith Act indictments where that position has been taken 
so strongly. And the chain of reasoning, if you can call it a chain of 
reasoning, is that it is the reactionaries that use the force and if the 
democratic majority of the people want to have their way they will 
have to fight this reactionary minority and they are morally justified 
in doing so from the standpoint of democracy, etc., etc. Ancl the ac- 
tual facts of the matter are, though, that the Communist Party lead- 
ership have, all of them, studied these basic works of Marxism- 
Leninism and have a perfectly clear mutual understanding that if 
and when circumstances do permit that the Communist Party could 
gain enough support from workers and other sections of people would 
lead a movement for taking of power. 

Mr. DoYiiE. The taking of power by force and violence? 

Mrs. Hartle. Taking it by that means, if there is resistance, and 
taking it without that means, if possible — with the definite under- 
standing of all of the Communist Party leaders that I have ever 
talked with that there will be resistance. They say they will use force 
and violence of there is resistance, but it is already decided in tlie 
Communist Party that there will be resistance. It is sometliing like 
the peace and war questions, of aggressive war. 

Mr. DoTLE. Then if I understand the import of your answer to that 
question it is that in the defense and prosecution under the Smith 
Act of the Smith Act defendants, including the trial in which you 
were engaged — their claim that they did not advocate the use of force 
to resistance was phony, it was not a true and correct statement of 
the position of the American Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Harti^. As long as the American Communist Party main- 
tains that it is a Marxist-Leninist party and bases itself on Marxism- 
Leninism, then there is to me a contradiction between that and the 
Smith Act trial assertions in which the statement was made that the 
Communist Party does not advocate the overthrow of the United 
States Government by force and violence. And I am not able, with 
all of my experience in the Communist Party, to resolve that con- 
tradiction. 

Mr. Doyle. Your testimony places emphasis upon youth work, the 
young people's work in the Communist Party, the work for children, 
the work for American youth. At any rate, I want to ask you if you 
will take a minute or two and tell us a little bit more about to what 
extent does the American Communist Party place emphasis upon ob- 
taining education of as many American youth as possible? 

Mrs. Hartus. The Communist Party always places much emphasis 
on its theory and on its program on youth work. It recognizes that 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6199 

the younger generation can furnish vital forces, can furnish forces 
that can be developed into able and very tested Communist leaders 
and has always considered this important. 

The success of the Communist Party among youth was the greatest 
in the latter 1930's. In this district, the success of youth work has been 
very small ; since I have come to Seattle, from 1942 to 1950, it has been 
very unsuccessful. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you have any explanation of that fact ? Why was 
that the case ? 

Mrs. Hartle. It seemed to me sometimes that the Communist Party, 
although it had the importance of youth work in its program, it didn't 
devote too much effort to it ; but when I was assigned as youth director 
I found that there was a more fundamental reason for it as well, and 
that is that the possibilities of doing work among youth along Com- 
munist Party lines were very much smaller than they had been in the 
1930's. It appeared to me that the schools, the colleges and the youth 
organizations had been alerted and better informed about the Com- 
munist Party and its activities and were much harder to draw into 
these activities. 

Mr. Doyle. What is the policy of the Communist Party, if any pol- 
icy they have, with reference to instructing its members to infiltrate 
deliberately into the major political parties of our country? Have 
they had any programs to try to do that ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The program of the Communist Party — its front 
work is what it is called, its election work or its legislative work has 
always been to make the widest possible inroads where inroads could 
be made. It was not addressed to any particular political party ; there 
had been the ups and downs of separate Farmer-Labor Party ap- 
proaches and a third party approach, and then there had been times 
of working with both the Democratic and Republican Parties, support- 
ing candidates who spoke out in one way or another on these programs 
that the Communist Party was interested in. 

I think that the biggest work in this district, the greatest success 
in this district of the Communist Party in penetrating a major political 
organization was the Democratic Party. 

Mr. Doyle. While you have been out of the active work of the Com- 
munist Party now for a bit, I assume that you still have some opinion, 
even though it may not be based on your actual personal knowledge 
at this time but is based upon your past experience down to the date 
when you left the party, to the date when you went to the FBI, as to 
whether or not the Communist Party is still an active force in the 
Seattle region. Is there any reason that has come to your attention 
or any opinion that you have that maybe they have stopped being ac- 
tive in the Seattle area ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No ; I don't have the slightest opinion that the Com- 
munist Party has stopped being active in the Seattle area. Knowing 
the Communist Party as I do and the persons in it as I do, I would 
say that a latter-day miracle would have to take place to stop that ac- 
tivity completely as of this date. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you think that the underground, the hard core of 
which you were a member, in the Communist Party is just as nu- 
merous and just as active today as it was when you were in it ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No ; I don't think that it is as numerous. I think the 
ones that are left are probably just as active and possibly more so. 



6200 COIMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Doyle. I think, Mr. Chairman, that that is all I have, and 
I desire to thank Mrs. Hartle very much. 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. Mrs. Hartle, from time to time it falls to the 
lot of the chairman or the acting chairman of a committee or a sub- 
committee to express the appreciation of the Congress of the United 
States and of the American people to a witness. I think that what I 
have to say, very briefly, this morning constitutes not only the expres- 
sion of the full Committee on Un-American Activities and my distin- 
guished colleague, I\Ir. Doyle, but the opinion of many hundreds of 
thousands of people whom you have never seen and will probably never 
meet. 

This hearing, insofar as your participation in it is concerned, luis 
been a unique one. I was checking with the other members of the com- 
mittee as to whether or not in their memory we have ever had the same 
situation in respect to a witness appearing before a committee — a wit- 
ness in jail, actually accompanied to and from tlie hearing room under 
guard, and I find that to the best of the recollection of the other mem- 
bers of the committee that situation has never obtained heretofore. 

You have been sentenced to prison for an offense against the laws 
of the United States ; and when JVIr. Doyle and I came up here some 
weeks ago to take your ])relimiuaiy testimony, I must say tluit we were 
somewhat confused and I, for my ])art, liad had the feeling l)efore I 
had met you that this perhaps was an effort to obtain some measure of 
leniency. Tlie Communists have stated in their throw-away sheets 
that the only reason you did cooperate was because you hoped that 
your penalty would be somehow lessened. This committee, obviously, 
as a committee of Congress, has no authority to do anything about that 
sentence as imposed. But I do want it on the record, and I am sure 
that Mr. Doyle will agree Avith me, that during the course of that pre- 
liminary hearing there was no suggestion on your part having to do 
with the mitigation of your sentence. 

I understand from members of the staff that the subject has never 
been a subject of discussion and that to the contrary you have said on 
many occasions that you are willing to take the medicine that has been 
meted out to you. 

Going to jail is probably not a pleasant thing under any circum- 
stances, but I can say, and t think that everyone will agree, that prob- 
ably no one ever went to jail in Seattle with more well wishes through- 
out the area. 

While, as I say, the committee has no jurisdiction over that sentence, 
each one of us, individually — and again I am sure that I speak for 
the entire House of Representatives— join witli those hundreds of 
thousands of other well-wishers in wishing you the very best of luck 
and Godspeed. Yours has been on ordeal before, during, and since 
the trial — here on the stand — which has been marked by strong per- 
sonal determination and by quite obvious courage. I miglit say that 
it is far easier to take the stand for 15 minutes and rant and rave and 
take tlie fiftli amendment than it is to make a clean break and tell the 
whole trutli to the conunittee. But while undergoing the scorn and 
the vilification which has been heaped upon you by the Communist 
Party and by fellow travelers, and which will be heaped ui)on you in 
the future, you have, as I said, won the admiration and respect of your 
fellow Washingtonians and beyond the borders of this State. Your 
testimony, as counsel has indicated, will be published; it will be read 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES m THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6201 

by hundreds of thousands of American citizens. Your disclosures as 
to the objectives and the scope of the activities of the Connnunist Party 
in the Seattle area are characteristic of the pattern as the committee 
has found it elsewhere throughout the country, but through your testi- 
mony you have been able to make communism a real and living thing 
to thousands upon thousands of citizens to whom it was formerly 
something nebulous and difficult to understand. 

The committee feels that you have made a great and significant con- 
tribution to the continuing fight for human freedom. I might say in 
that connection that the mail coming to the committee, in almost every 
instance, mentions the fact of your testimony. I have just read a letter 
here this morning from a 15-year old school girl who had been watch- 
ing the hearings all week. Her concluding words were "God bless Mrs. 
Hartle.*' 

With the cordial thanks of the committee and the Congress of the 
American people, you are excused from further attendance under the 
subpena. [Great applause.] 

AVliile the committee cannot in any way change the nature of your 
sentence, we do wish one of the marshals would hand you the flowers 
at the end of the table as a small token of our thanks, 

(The witness was excused and the committee proceeded to hear 
testimony of other witnesses which is printed in pt. 8 of this series. 
Later additional testimony of Barbara Hartle was heard.) 

FUKTHER TESTIMONY OF MES. BARBARA HARTLE 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, are you familiar with the organiza- 
tion known as the Interracial Action Committee ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I am, 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you explain to the committee, please, what 
part this organization played in the Communist Party orbit ? 

Mrs. Hartle, The Interracial Action Committee was formed in 
about 1945 at the instigation of the Communist Party, specifically the 
Negro and National Groups Commission, of which I was then secre- 
tary. It was an organization that had both affiliate organizations 
and individual memberships. The individual memberships made it 
possible for Communist Party members and others to take part when 
they could not become a part of it through organizational affiliation. 
This was considered by the Communist Party as a type of organiza- 
tion that could activize more people and, incidentally, made it easier 
for the Communist Party to control it, 

I was a member of the executive board of this organization as a 
representative of the Communist Party or Communist Political 
Association. 

A New World article at that time carried a story listing the affiliated 
organizations and executive board members. The shipscalers' u^iion 
was one of the affiliates. 

The program of the Interracial Action Committee was to raise cam- 
paigns for Negro rights along Communist Party lines. 

With myself as an open Communist on the executive board, the 
idea was that the activities of this committee would be closely identi- 
fied with the Communist Party and thus gain new influences, contacts, 
and members, especially from among the Negro people. 

Earl George, as chairman, and myself as secretary of the district 
Negro and National Groups Commission, called a meeting of this 

48069—54 — pt. 3 — —6 



6202 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

commission to discuss Communist Party policies in the Interracial 
Action Committee. Present at this meeting were Dell Castle, Carl 
Brooks, Earl George, Clark Harper, P. J. Blakes, and myself. All 
members of the commission were known to me as leading Com- 
munists and all leaders in the Interracial Action Committee. 

Present also was John Caughlan, also known to me as a Communist 
Party member and involved in the Interracial Action Committee. 

Present also was a Dr. Kaufman, who was taking a leadership post 
in the Interracial Action Committee but who was a stranger to me. 
The fact of his presence there, plus the discussion in which he partici- 
pated impressed me strongly that he was Communist Party-trained. 
He spoke of his experiences in forming a similar organization some- 
where in the East, and he indicated that he did not wish to be labeled 
as a Communist here. 

I felt certain that he had once been a member of the Communist 
Party but did not know of his membership in Seattle. 

The Interracial Action Committee was a Communist originated and 
controlled organization throughout its duration — about 11/2 to 2 years. 
Most of its officers were Communists and many Communist Party 
members were members of the committee. Its policies and activities 
were approved by the district leadership of the Communist Party and 
were specifically led by myself as a leading Communist charged with 
responsibility in this field. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, in the course of your testimony, I 
believe you have referred to the term "revisionism." Will you ex- 
plain to the committee exactly what you mean by that term ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Revisionism is an important subject in the basic 
works of Marxism-Leninism. Of the four great theoretical leaders 
of Marxism-Leninism, it was Lenin and Stalin who wrote about revi- 
sionism. Lenin excoriated the Second Socialist International for 
revisionism and heaped fire on the head of Karl Kautsky and Bern- 
stein; he accused them of revising Karl Marx, of taking the revolu- 
tionary heart out of Marxism, He said that the doddering old women 
of the Second International were misleading the working class into 
thinking that capitalism could peacefully grow over into socialism. 

Lenin added to Karl Marx's Political Economy the analysis that 
capitalism had entered a new stage — its highest and moribund stage — 
"imperialism." 

One of the basic works of Marxism-Leninism, Imperialism, by Lenin, 
contains this contribution to Marxist-Leninist theory. According to 
Lenin's analysis, the peaceful period of the development of capitalism 
had come to an end at the beginning of the 20th century. The old 
Socialist International was not prepared to deal with this new pe- 
riod — the era of imperialist wars and proletarian revolutions. Lenin 
founded the party of the new type, the type of party that would and 
could cope with the new stage of capitalism — a revolutionary party, 
not a reformist party. 

This new type of party, according to Marxism-Leninism, must be 
so trained and organized as to be able to lead the working class and 
its allies to the seizure of power, to the dictatorship of the proletariat, 
and through maintaining that power to build socialism and later com- 
munism, the next stage after socialism. 

According to Lenin, it is revisionism to teach the working class that 
it can come into power peaceably, through parliamentary means. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6203 

Lenin says many, many times that the capitalist class will resist with 
force and the party of the new type must teach the working class to 
meet this resistance also with force, with armed struggle. 

To teach the working class otherwise is betrayal of the working 
class and the goal of socialism. 

I have taught from and recommended for study many basic works 
of Marxism-Leninism that contain these ideas : The Selected Works of 
V. I. Lenin ; the Collected Works of V. I. Lenin ; the Communist Mani- 
festo by Marx, which is the foundation for the class-struggle concept ; 
Foundations of Leninism, by Joseph Stalin ; The Teachings of Karl 
Marx, by V. I. Lenin ; Leninism, by Stalin ; and others. 

In my first 3 or 4 years in the Communist Party I read similar ideas 
expressed in works by Communist leaders of the United States of 
America: Towards a Soviet America, by William Z. Foster; Why 
Communism ? by Olgin ; A Manual on Organization, by Peters ; Mis- 
leaders of Labor, by William Z. Foster; proceedings and resolutions 
of the C. P. U. S. A. conferences and conventions held in past periods. 

I used Peters' manual and a chart that went with it in party struc- 
ture in a class that I taught in Spokane, the first Communist Party 
class that I can recall teaching in the middle 1930's. 

Although I had studied a lot about revisionism, I did not recognize 
it when it cropped up in the C. P. U. S. A. I felt no uneasiness about 
accepting the Browder revisionism and cannot recall being at all im- 
pressed with any revolutionary doubts that were from time to time 
expressed to me by individual Communist Party members. I con- 
sidered them leftist and found no difficulty in marshaling arguments 
to bolster the revisionist position. 

The Duclos article hit me like a thunderbolt ; because of my study 
of Marxism-Leninism, I realized to a fair extent the seriousness of 
the charge of revisionism. I was completely disoriented and did not, 
of myself, arrive at a solid position toward it. The orientation came 
from Henry Huff, district chairman, and from party national head- 
quarters. 

Trained in idolization of Communist Party leadership, I first wrote 
an article in support of Browder, which I tore up before submitting 
it to anyone. Under district leadership, with hints and suggestions 
coming as to which side was right and how the forces were lining up, 
I wrote another article on the Foster side, which was printed in the 
Daily Worker. 

Once oriented, I got into the full swing of the reconstitution. This 
reconstitution revived my interest and enthusiasm for the Communist 
Party to a considerable extent, especially as long as the battle against 
revisionism remained for the most part an interparty campaign. 

The revisionism of Browder was essentially a class collaboration 
instead of a class-struggle policy, according to the Communist Party. 
Browder had spun dreams of a peaceful world, with progress coming 
in a peaceful way, with capitalism willing to make concessions in this 
new world situation. 

In the Communist Political Association, the point was often made 
that the reason for this situation was the victory of Soviet Russia in 
World War II and the defeat of fascism. 

Now the whole world was in a position to make great progress in 
a peaceful manner, according to Browder. The Communist Party 
lambasted these illusions on capitalism and capitalists of Browder and 



6204 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

set itself on the path of stru<r<jle again, this time ajjainst the world 
imperialist forces led by the United States of America imperialist gov- 
ernment. 

Kevisionism, its ideas and discoverable followers, were thrown out 
of the party after Browder, in an energetic and high-handed manner, 
in a reconstitution campaign that continued after the formal reconsti- 
tution in 1945, up to the time that I fully quit the Communist Party 
on March 12, 1954. 

One of Henry Huff's analyses of myself for breaking party disci- 
pline was that I had not fully cast off Browderism. Despite his at- 
tempt to thus channel me into a somewhat neutral position, my own 
analysis was that I was casting off not only Marxism-Leninism but 
revisionism, along with it at the same time, in favor of democracy and 
freedom, in favor of support of the Government of our country. 

I cast off the paradise of socialism as an enticing bait that had been 
dangled before people's eyes for a variety of reasons in the last couple 
hundred years and which the Marxist-Leninist leaders seized upon as a 
reason for achieving tlie power of government, knowing that the ap- 
peal of a heaven on earth could amass a large and strong set of fol- 
lowers. 

Tlie international Communist leaders, in addition, strongly empha- 
sized the term "scientific socialism," which is another shrewd theo- 
retical move to win followers in a historical period of great scientific 
advancement. 

Lenin himself revised the many dreams of socialism that grew out 
of Karl Marx's theories and explained that when the Communist Party 
comes to power the really big difficulties will only start ; that immedi- 
ately to expect a heaven on earth is not realistic and, moreover, that 
there is no such thing as pure socialism. 

The fight of the Communist movement against revisionism can 
only be objectively explained as a fight against democratic processes, 
as a fight against elements that would disperse forces from Communist 
dictatorial power. 

If Earl Browder's theories had liad their way in the Communist 
Party of this country, the undeviating support of the LTnited States 
Communist Party to the world Communist movement, headed by 
Soviet Russia, would have been threatened. 

Titoism is a prime example of just such a development. Titoism is 
revisionism. Since Tito and the Communist Party that he headed held 
Dower, and their doings had a much greater impact on world com- 
munism than a party not in power could have, tlie Communist move- 
ment portrayed Titoism as outright betrayers to imperialism. 

Mr. Tavknner. Mrs. Hartle, you mentioned Tito revisionism and 
also Browder revisionism and that Browder advocated a policy of 
coexistence between capitalism and communism. Now do you believe 
that Browder's revisionism is true revisionism ? I mean Avasn't Brow- 
der taking an opportunity in the situation wlien the Soviet LTnion 
jieeded the Ignited States as an ally in the last war? Therefore, his 
revision was in accord with the views and objectives of the Soviet 
Union, were they not, whereas Tito's revisionism is certainly not in 
accord with the Soviet LTnion ? 

Mrs. ITahtle. I think it is true to say that Browder's revisionism fit 
in very W(>11 with the aims of Soviet Eussia, inasmuch as the TTnited 
Stales of America was an ally in World War 11. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6205 

Mr. Tavenner. Browder's revisionism was accepted then, whereas 
Tito's revisionism was not accepted. Is that a correct statement 'i 

Mrs. ILvRTLE. Browder's revisionism was accepted as long as it was 
of vakie to Soviet Russia. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs, Hartle, in the early days of your membership 
in the Communist Party, did you have an opportunity to observe 
closely the relationship between the Communist Party and unemployed 
councils ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I did. When I first joined the Communist Party 
in 1933, the Communist Party was very active in organizing and build- 
ing the Unemployed Councils. Organization was being built in the 
neighborhoods, to have any Unemployed Council in each neighbor- 
liood. Almost all of the members of the Communist Party that I 
knew were members of the Unemployed Councils and were officers of 
these councils. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of what location, generally, are you speaking now ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Of Spokane. 

The reports that I heard at meetings and the conversations that I 
had with Communist leaders in Spokane at that time made me aware 
that the Communist Party was the main driving force, in fact, the 
only driving force, behind having the Unemployed Councils organized. 

I heard of many cases where an individual Commimist member felt 
that he needed more relief or wanted more relief and where the coun- 
cils would take up his individual case, send a committee to the welfare 
officials and attempt to secure and often did secure special relief for 
that person. 

It was standard practice for a Communist Party member to depend 
on the Communist Party and the Unemployed Councils to take action 
for him as an individual in order to gain special relief measures. 

It was also a fact that the Unemployed Councils which were led by 
the Communists, would organize similar committees to gain relief for 
other persons or groups of persons, and it was standard practice to 
recruit into the Communist Party, on the basis of this help, members. 

I remember persons reporting that they had recruited Communist 
Party members right in the building of the welfare offices, either while 
waiting to take up the cases or immediately after they had been 
taken up. 

The recruiting of the Communist Party and the unemployed activi- 
ties were very closely associated. Most of the recruiting of the Com- 
munist Party at that time took place around these unemployed 
activities. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was any effort made by the Communist Party to 
obtain as members welfare workers who had the responsibility of de- 
cisions in relief matters ? 

Mrs. Hartle. In the later period, especially during the time that 
the Workers' Alliance was the relief organization that the Communist 
Party worked in, the program was broadened somewhat to try to 
recruit or have influence with persons in the welfare setup. Especially 
it was considered desirable to have as a member or as a person friendly 
to the Communist Party a person who was a visitor, a welfare visitor. 

The Communist Party used to evaluate the visitors — which were 
good ones and which were bad ones. 



6206 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Tavexner. And do you know of any instances in which appli- 
cants for relief were denied relief and who were granted relief after 
becoming members of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. No ; I can't recall any sucli instances. • However, it is 
correct to say that persons whose cases were taken up by the Commu- 
nist Party often received relief which they had not received before, 
and in that way I think it would be true. 

The Communist analysis of that was that organized effort would get 
results that persons were not able to obtain without organization. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Now what you have said relates particularly to the 
Unemployed Councils; is that correct? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Tavex^xer. "Was the situation virtually the same v/ith regard 
to the Workers' Alliance, which followed ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; the situation was virtually the same. The Com- 
munist Party in Spokane controlled the leadership and the policies 
of the Workers' Alliance after the merger took place of some unem- 
ployed organizations. There was at the very beginning some struggle 
for leadership, but this was very shortly won by the Communist Party, 
and the Workers' Alliance in Spokane was led and controlled by the 
Communist Party for the much greater part of its existence there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Harry Crumbaker, in the course of his testi- 
mony, said that he attended many fraction meetings within the 
Workers' Alliance, and I believe he indicated that you were present 
at some of those meetings. Can you give the committee any additional 
information regarding the fraction meetings to which he referred ? 

Mrs. Hartle. There were often fraction meetings of the Communist 
Party, especially during the Workers' Alliance period. What would 
be done is that the Communist Party would call a meeting of all of its 
members in the Workers' Alliance and discuss the program and poli- 
cies to be advanced in the Workers' Alliance, and this would include 
discussion of ^\]io should be elected to leadership of the Workers^ 
Alliance. 

I have attended some of those fraction meetings in my capacity as a 
leader of the Communist Party of Spokane. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Can you give the committee any information, in 
addition to that which you have heretofore given, regarding the activ- 
ity of Mr. Harry Crumbaker in the Communist Party in Spokane? 

INIrs. Hartle. Harry Crumbaker was recruited into the Communist 
Party in Spokane in about the middle 1930's and was an active member 
of the Communist Party for a period of at least 2 years and probably 
more. He was once a member of the section committee of the Com- 
munist Party in Spokane. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Can you give me the names of any other persons 
wdio were members of the section committee at the same time that Mr. 
Crumbaker was a member ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Jim Haggin, Art Furnish, Caroline Haggin, J. H. 
Van Orman, Ruth Van Orman. They, I am sure, were members 
of the section committee at that time. Leonard Wildman and Harold 
Wildman were also members of the section committee in Spokane at 
that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, from time to time, during the course 
of the hearings, reference has been made to various Communist Party 
schools and the training that members of the Communist Party re- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6207 

ceived. Will you tell the committee, please, what the aim and purpose 
of the Communist Party was in giving training to its members ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The aim and purpose of this training of Communist 
Party members was to make Marxist-Leninists out of them, to give 
them such a thorough grounding that they would be able to under- 
stand the necessity for all Communist Party activities, methods, and 
policies. 

There is somewhere in Marxist-Leninist theoretical works a pas- 
sage, sentence, or even word that will analyze any conceivable ques- 
tion that a person can raise. The fact that many of these answers 
seem contradictory at first hearing is explained on the basis of dialec- 
tics, which shows that since the condition of each situation is different, 
the answer will also be different. It also shows that change is con- 
stant — so that an answer given at one time will be the opposite at an- 
other time. The member is enveloped in a philosophical smog as 
he studies and accepts Marxist-Leninist theory. In theory, as in ac- 
tivity, the member is so swamped bj^ the Communist Party that other 
ideas and beliefs, just as other activities, are shoved into the back- 
ground. He neglects and forgets his past; he is drawn into a whirl- 
wind of activities and ideas that tax all of his physical and mental ca- 
pacities; and if he does not successfully resist, he becomes a profes- 
sional revolutionary. 

Marxist-Leninist theory is considered indispensable by the Com- 
munist Party. Stalin's definition of the relation between theory and 
practice is: "Theory without practice is sterile. Practice without 
theory is blind." 

Communist Party members learn to understand the importance and 
correctness of their activities as they begin to grasp Marxist-Leninist 
theory. Besides classes and meetings, a member must engage in inten- 
sive self-study if he ever hopes to begin to master Marxism-Leninism. 
Members are informed that it is immodest to expect to completely 
master it. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. In addition to the training in Communist Party 
schools, what training was given to the rank and file members of the 
Communist Party during the course of their membership ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The Communist Party organized new member classes 
to which new members were invited and at which they received intro- 
ductory instruction. 

I remember a series of about 10 or 12 weekly classes held in Victory 
Hall, at Third and Marion Streets, in about 1940. One of the pur- 
poses of these classes was to integrate the new members faster into 
theory and activity than would be the case through branch meetings 
alone. Persons showing promise in these classes were reported back 
to their branches with the aim of having them more rapidly promoted 
in the Communist Party. The subject matter of these new member 
classes was quite light, showing the class division in the capitalist 
society and explaining how the Communist Party represents the inter- 
ests of the working class. The current front program of the Com- 
munist Party was emphasized. A big feature of these classes, in com- 
parison to more advanced classes, was to let the discussion run its 
course, to find out what questions were bothering the new members, 
and to give the Communist Party answers in as simple a form as 
possible. 



6208 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

I cannot recall the names of any of the students of this particular 
series of classes. Very few of the many recruits of tliat time attended, 
as the attendance was considered voluntary. 

Another form of education of new members was the branch educa- 
tional. An educational is considered a necessary part of each Com- 
munist Party branch agenda. These educationals are led usually by 
the branch organizer or branch educational director and are based 
on works of Marxism-Leninism and on the current writings of the 
Communist Party, such as Political Affairs. 

Mr. Tavenner. You referred to the fact that the most promising 
students were reported back to their respective branches, so that their 
advancement in communism might be encouraged. "Was this followed 
by any special leadership training on the part of such individuals? 

Mrs. Hartle. Leadership training classes were regularly organized 
by the Communist Party as the next step in the education of a Com- 
munist Party member. 

I remember a series of leadership training classes, about 14 weekly 
sessions, that I held in Spokane in 1941-42. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe those classes, please ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The purpose of these classes was to give introductory 
sessions in the basic theory of Marxism-Leninism, di^nded into such 
subjects as "political economy," the "basic theory of the Communist 
Party," "the state," "dialectical and historical materialism," "strategy 
and tactics," and others. 

The material for teaching of these sessions was based on an outline 
furnished by the district educational department and on my own notes 
of a district full-time school which I attended in 1937. These out- 
lines included the assignments for study from basic Marxist-Leninist 
works and from current material of the Communist Party. Some of 
the works I taught from were : History of the Communist Party of the 
Soviet Union • 

Mr. Tavenner, That was considered a "must" in Communist Party 
education ; was it not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; it was. It was considered the most single val- 
uable piece of Marxist-Leninist literature after it was published for 
educational work. 

Mr. Tavenner. Proceed, please. 

Mrs. Hartle, Other works were: Political Economy by Leontiev; 
The Communist Manifesto, by Karl Marx; Socialism: Utopian and 
Scientific, by Frederick Engels. 

The result of these classes was the emergence of a new active leader- 
ship for the Spokane section. This was recognized by the district 
leadership and was the reason they gave me for bringing me into full- 
time work in the district. 

Mr. Tamsnner. Do you recall the names of those who attended the 
courses conducted by you ? 

Mrs. PLartij:. I recall some of the names : Harold Eddings, who 
became a member of the section committee of the Communist Party 
in Spokane ; Genevieve Eddings, his wife, who became a branch officer; 
May belle Wheeler, who later became a section officer of the Spokane 
section; Vernon Riley, who became a branch officer; Earl Carpenter, 
who was a member of the section committee; Emma Carpenter, Earl 
Carpenter's wife, who was a branch officer; Grace Dahlke, who was 
a branch officer; Herman Schulz, who was a section committee mem- 



COMMUNIST ACTI^'ITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6209 

ber and a leader in the Commimist Party's work among railroad 
workers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall any other specific training that was 
given Communist Party members ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I remember another leadership training class in late 
1947 or early 1948. I taught a series of 14 weekly classes to further 
train south King regional leaders in Marxism-Leninism. My teach- 
ing there was directly based upon what I had learned at a 2-month 
national training school and included the subjects, Marxist-Leninist 
Political Economy, The Basic Theory of the Communist Party, Dia- 
lectical and Historical Materialism, The Struggle for Democracy, 
Peace Strategy and Tactics. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the names of any of the members of 
the Communist Party who attended these classes? 

Mrs. Hartle. Some of the names that I recall are Frank Kerr, Ren- 
ton section organizer, a member of the Communist Party in the ma- 
chinists' union ; Caroline Canaf ax, who was section organizer of the 
Duwamish Bend section of the Communist Party; John Zobrist. or- 
ganizational secretary of the South King region of the Communist 
Party and also once section organizer of the White Center section of the 
Communist Party ; Paul Bowen, a member of the South King regional 
committee; Anita Miller, secretary of the Rainier Valley section of 
the Communist Party, who lived in the Holly Park housing project ; 
Zella Apt, who was secretary of the Duwamish Bend section of the 
Communist Party and lived in the South Park area ; Calvin Harris, a 
member of the District Youth Committee and who lived in the South 
Park area; Pearl Thrasher, South King j^ress director, who lived in 
South Park. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there any other leadership training schools 
of a different character, which you conducted? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; there were. In late 1949 or early 1950, while I 
was district educational director, I taught in a 2-day class sponsored 
by the district Negro commission on Marxist-Leninist tlieorv on the 
national and Negro question. Other teachers besides myself were 
Clayton Van Lydegraf, district organizational secretary, and Paul 
Bowen, organizer of the central region of King County and member 
of the district Negro commission. Regional officers and members of 
the district and regional Negro commissions were required to attend. 

The purpose of these classes was to educate the top party leader- 
ship firmly in the Marxist-Leninist analysis of the national and Negro 
question, so that the extensive Communist Party program on Negro 
work would be fulfilled. The texts for these classes were, The National 
Question, by Joseph Stalin, and Negro Liberation, by Haywood. 

The class was held in the basement recreation room of the home of 
Ruth Bitterman in North Seattle. Some of the students in attend- 
ance were: Ted Dokter, officer of the Southwest Washington region 
of the Communist Party ; Calvin Harris ; Clark Harper ; Irving Jones, 
a leader of the Communist Party in Vancouver, Washington; Stan 
Henrickson, organizer of the northwest Washington region of the 
Communist Party; Merrill Kimple, organizer of the South King 
region of the Communist Party ; Ruth Bitterman, officer of the North 
King region of the Communist Party; Terry Pettus, editor of the 
People's World, Northwest edition, as his Communist Party assign- 
ment, and a member of the district Negro commission. 



6210 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

Mr. Tavenner, Wliat full-time training schools for Communist 
Party members were you connected with ? 

Mrs. Hartle. In 1947 I taught a class in a 1-week full-time district 
training school of the Communist Party in the building of the Pacific 
Northwest Labor School on Second Avenue, North, near Denny Way. 
The subject that I taught was The Basic Theory of the Communist 
Party, and the purpose of the class I taught was specifically to route 
out revisionism of Marxism-Leninism, and on what the Communist 
Party is and what its roll should be in the class struggle and the seizure 
of power by the working class and in the establishment of socialism. 
The material for this class was based on an outline prepared by Ed 
Alexander, district educational director at that time and director of 
this school. 

Some of the texts I taught from and that were studied by the students 
were: Short Course History of the Communist Party of the Soviet 
Union, Socialism : Utopian and Scientific, by Frederick Engels, The 
Communist Manifesto, by Karl Marx, The Struggle against Revision- 
ism, a series of articles by United States Communist Party national 
officers about the Communist Party reconstitution, and Marxism and 
Revisionism, which comprises selections from Lenin and Stalin. 

Some of the students in this 1-day class that I taught were : Ruth 
Porter, a member of the central region of the Communist Party; 
Caroline Canafax, from the South King region of the Communist 
Party ; Harold Sunoo, member of the North King region of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there any other district full-time training 
schools in which you participated as an instructor ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; there were. I taught political economy in two 
district training schools, two full-time 1-week schools for leadership 
training in 1945 and 1946. In the 1945 school I taught political econ- 
omy according to the Communist Political Association program and 
found it necessary to do a great deal of improvising to make the Marx- 
ist-Leninist analysis of political economy fit in with the non-class- 
struggle program and perspective of the CPA. I had already 
learned that Marxism-Leninism is not a static science, that it grows 
and develops. I believed that a new stage in history had been achieved 
at the end of World War II and that the science of Marxism-Leninism 
had to take this into account. It was thus that I explained the clearly 
apparent contradictions between Marxist-Leninist political economy 
as we had known it and the new analysis that would have to be added. 

In the 1946 school, after the reconstitution of the Communist Party, 
I covered the ground again, this time explaining how the old Marxism- 
Leninism was right all along and that the diiTiculty had been that the 
Communist Party of this country had gotten off the track of Marxism- 
Leninism and had fallen into revisionism. 

Some of the texts used in the 1946 district training school were : The 
Communist Manifesto, by Karl Marx; Socialism : Utopian and Scien- 
tific, by Frederick Engels; The Teachings of Karl Marx, by V. I. 
Lenin ;*Kapital, volume I, by Karl Marx; Short Course History of the 
Communist Party of the Soviet Union; Imperialism, by V. I. Lenin; 
Value, Price, and Profit, by Marx ; Wage, Labor, and Capital, by Marx. 

At this second school, for the first time that I knew of, some of the 
mass leaders of the Communist Party, the top mass leaders, attended 
a district school. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6211 

Mr. Tavenner. This was in 1946, after the reconstitution of the 
Communist Party, was it not? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. These persons were not usually drawn into such 
theoretical study in schools. 
I remember Tom Rabbitt, William J. Pennock, and Terry Pettus. 
Mr. Tavenner. Do you remember those persons as having attended 
this particular school ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes, I remember those persons as having attended this 
school that I taught in 1946. 

The other students were mainly composed of section organizers and 
sections secretaries, Communist Party members in important trade- 
union work or in youth and Negro work. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, you mentioned the fact that you at- 
tended a 2-month national training school in preparation for your 
work in the Communist Party. Will you tell the committee, please, 
when you attended the national training school, the circumstances 
under which you were selected for that work, and give the committee 
the benefit of all the knowledge that you have regarding its operation ? 
Mrs. Hartle. In the spring of 1946 I was selected by the district 
leadership as the district student to a full-time 2-month national train- 
ing school for theoreticians and propagandists. The aim of sending 
me was to prepare me for the post of district educational director. 

The school was held at Camp Beacon, which is a recreational camp 
on the Hudson, not far from New York City. The director of the 
school, Jacob Mindel, in beginning the school explained that the 
students at the school were not beginners in the study of Marxism- 
Leninism but were persons who were to be trained as theoreticians and 
propagandists who would be able to lead the theoretical^ struggle to 
rout out all the last remnants of Browder revisionism in the Com- 
munist Party. The instructors of the school were top national people 
of the Communist Party: Jacob Mindel, Mary Himoff, Max Weiss, 
Steve Nelson, Henry Winston, Walter Neff, William Z. Foster, and I 
am sure that a man named Clark taught on the veteran question. 

The subject matter of the school was divided into such topics as: 
Marxist-Leninist Political Economy, Dialectical and Historical Mate- 
rialism, The Basic Theory of the Communist Party, The Struggle for 
Democracy, Peace, The National and Negro Question, Strategy and 
Tactics, The Roll of Marxist-Leninist Educational Work, The State, 
TheU.S.S.R. 

The students in attendance at the school were selected by districts 
from all parts of the United States. Some were district leaders ; some 
were important persons in Communist press work; and some were 
persons in trade union and other mass work for the Communist Party. 
Some of the students that I recall in this school were : Mark Haller, 
Caroline Drew, Charles Nusser, and a man named Al from Chicago — 
I think his last name was George, There was a trade-union leader 
from Chicago, whose name I cannot recall. He was a big man, quite 
forceful and had constant trouble in assimilating the ideas. He was 
constantly wrangling with Mindel. There was a Negro woman named 
Hazel, from Chicago, a young woman, and there was a man named 
Andy, I believe from New Jersey. Andy was the first name. Then 
there was Howard Johnson from New York, Tony Martin from New 
York, from Brooklyn; Bernard Burton — I later saw articles in the 
Daily Worker under the byline of Bernard Burton. There was a 



6212 COJVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE TACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

woman named Steinber<; from Philadelphia or Pittsburgh*, but I am 
quite sure she was from Philadelpliia ; a Dorothy Chase from New 
York, who is the wife of Homer Chase who was organizer in Florida 
or Georgia. She had been in the United Electrical, Kadio and Machine 
Workers of America. There was Steve Murdock, a writer for the 
People's World — I believe in Los Angeles. There was a young white 
man from Chicago. There was Bob Hamilton, who was to become 
organizer in Indiana, and Mrs. Bob Hamilton, his wife. There was 
a man connected with the Communist Party work among the auto 
workers in Detroit, whose name I cannot remember. He was a long- 
time member of the Connnunist Party, was said to have gone to the 
Lenin school in the 1930's. I remember it as being probably a Finnish 
name. 

]Mr. TA^'T:NXER. It is true, is it not, ]\Irs. Hartle, that the }:)rimary 
objective of the Communist Party is to secure power through increas- 
ing its membership ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; that is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is it not also true that many of the activities of the 
Communist Party were designed to bring into the party any persons 
who Avere difficult to reach by activities in what you have previously 
referred to as front organizations ? 

]Mrs. Hartle, Yes. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. It is true then that the educational features which 
you have discussed were highly important, not only for training per- 
sons who had become members, but it was important also for the j^ur- 
pose of increasing membership. Would that not follow ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Were there any educational features to the work 
of the Communist Party besides schooling and educational training 
in the restricted sense of that term, which would have the combined 
purpose and objective of educating its members and at the same time 
inducing others to !)ecome members ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. There was a special type of meeting organized 
by the Communist Party, which had educational value, both for 
members and non-Communists who could be brouglit to attend. 

The holding of Lenin memorial meetings in January or February 
of each year, commemorating the death of V. I. Lenin on January 21, 
1924, was a regular i)ractice in the Communist Party throughout my 
membership until I left Seattle in 1950. The purpose of these meet- 
ings was to emphasize the great theoretical and practical contribution 
that Lenin made to the world ]:)roletarian revolutionary movement. 
He is especially honored by the Communist Party as being the first 
individual in history under whose leadership a successfid proletarian 
revolution was accomplished and the establishment of a socialism in 
a country achieved. 

The socialist goal of the Communist Party for the United States of 
America was usually brought out at these meetings. Since this So- 
cialist goal was often lost sight of and neglected in tlie course of year- 
round work, these meetings had the effect of reviving the revolutionary 
perspective of the older members and were considered valuable instruc- 
tion in international working-class solidarity for newer meml)ers. 

Although these Lenin memorial meetings were open to the public, 
tickets were sold, the main attention was to bringing the membership' 
to the meeting. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6213 

It was realized that these meetings did not have the broad type of 
appeal to bring in many non-C-ommnnists, Sometimes the bringing 
of close contacts was organized with the aim of recruiting them, either 
right in the meeting, throngli the appeal of national speakers, or right 
after the meeting as a result of its stimulus. The current program of 
the Communist Party was also put forth at these meetings. 

Main attention at these meetings was the pushing of basic Marxist- 
Leninist literature and especially the works of V. I. Lenin. 

A similar type of meeting were those sponsored by the Communist 
Party to celebrate the October revolution sometime near its date, No- 
vember the 7th. These meetings had about the same purpose and 
character and result as the Lenin memorial nieetings. 

In the early years of my membership in Spokane, the early and 
middle 1930's, meetings of a similar character were organized by the 
Communist Party to celebrate the Paris Commune, which, according 
to Marxism-Leninism, was the first effort of the proletariat to take 
power. Lessons were drawn in these meetings from the failure of the 
French proletariat and instruction given as to the mistakes made, and 
the assurance that the Communist Party would give the working class 
the kind of theory and leadership to assure victoi-y. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the course of the testimony, we have heard 
of numerous street meetings which were addressed by members of the 
Communist Party. Will you describe the principal objectives of such 
meetings ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Street meetings on or near the "skid row" were a regu- 
lar practice by the Communist Party in the early and middle 1930's 
when I was a Communist Party member in Spokane. Many of them 
were held at that time. The main subject of discussion was the depres- 
sion, interwoven with pro-Soviet propaganda. The situation in China 
was much under discussion at that time and the Scottsboro case was 
regularly talked about. The purpose of these meetings was to spread 
Communist influence among the unemployed, win recruits to the party, 
sell party literature and press, and raise funds. 

The Communist Party campaign against fascism and war was also 
an important subject. 

At that time the street meetings were one of the main activities of the 
Communist Party, and a high proportion of its recruits and funds 
came from it. Some of the speakers at these street meetings were 
J. H. Van Orman, then section organizer of the Spokane Communist 
Party; and Jim Haggin, Communist Party leader in the unemployed 
work of the Communist Party. 

In order to learn how to be a Communist spokesman, I was assigned 
to speak at some of these meetings in 1937-38 and received my first 
practice in speaking in this way. 

Communist street meetings were almost abandoned in about 1938 or 
1939 and were not resumed until after the reconstitution of the Com- 
munist Party. Morris Eappaport explained that "skid row" street 
meetings were not productive of the necessary results and that work 
in labor and other organizations was the important work for the Com- 
munist Party. 

Street meetings in Seattle were resumed in about 1948 by the water- 
front section of the Communist Party at Occidental and Main Streets. 
Main speakers were James K. Bourne, Margaret Backlund, Ralph 
Hall, and myself. 



6214 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

In about 1949 the South King region, of which I. was organizer, held 
weekly street meetings for several months. At these meetings I was 
the main speaker, and others were Merrill Kimple, Caroline Canafax, 
Leo Canafax. 

Speakers from other organizations were often included on the pro- 
gram. Some of these were Terry Pettus, of the People's World ; Wil- 
liam J. Pennock, of the Washington Pension Union ; and as a leader 
in the maritime unions I remember Jerry Tyler. Almost all, if not 
all, of these invited non-Communist speakers were members of the 
Communist Party and known to me as such. 

Resumption of street meetings was viewed as a part of the casting 
off of Browder revisionism, of taking the party's program to the 
workers and of speaking openly in the name of the party. The pro- 
gram and line of the street meetings received very little direction from 
the district leadership. The main aim of these meetings was to raise 
funds through the collections taken and to sell off or distribute a part 
of the Communist Party literature quota. 

Relatively few recruits were taken into the party as a result of these 
meetings, as compared with the depression period. The response to 
the meetings was also relatively small. 

National headquarters of the Communist Party encouraged holding 
street meetings in neighborhoods, in working-class and Negro districts. 
The south King region, under my leadership, had attempted to carry 
this through at 21st and Jefferson and at 11th and Jackson in Seattle. 
The complete lack of response discouraged the effort. 

The main purpose of all of these street meetings was to put forth 
the Communist Party line and covered a wide variety of subjects. 
The Communist peace campaign received much attention. 

Mr. Ta%^nner. Now, Mrs. Hartle, investigations conducted by the 
committee have indicated an extreme interest on the part of the Com- 
munist Party in the American Federation of Teachers. This was 
true at Harvard University ; it was true on the west coast, as shown 
by testimony taken at Los Angeles. Now will you tell the committee, 
please, to what extent emphasis was put upon infiltration into the 
American Federation of Teachers in this area, if any ? 

Mrs. Hartle. I do know that there was some infiltration of the 
American Federation of Teachers in this area. I remember discus- 
sions at district plenums in the latter 1930's, in which work in the 
Teachers Union impressed me as being considered just as important 
as work in unions of basic industry. I received the impression then 
that the Communist Party did have a number of members in the 
Teachers Union and this impression was further deepened by reporting 
of activities and resolutions of the Teachers Union in the Communist 
press, such as the Washington New Dealer. 

In the later period, in the latter 1940's, I held discussions with Mrs. 
Josephine Hughes about this work. She pointed out to me that her 
work in the Teachers Union and in organizing some members of the 
Communist Party that slie knew in the Teachers Union might be more 
important than being an officer of a branch or section in the south 
King region of the Communist Party. The result of the discussion 
was that I fully confirmed her belief that work in the AFT was 
important and encouraged her to organize that work but at the same 
time also to try to carry out her assignment as an officer. 






COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6215 

Mr. Tavenner. What effort was made, if any, to infiltrate the 
Parent-Teachers' Association ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The extent of Communist Party membership and 
activity in the Parent-Teachers' Association has been extremely small. 
The desirability of such influence has always been recognized by the 
Communist Party. The district women's commission several times 
discussed the necessity of assigning women Communists to this work 
but no large campaign was ever carried through. 

Communist women whom I have known to be members of the PTA 
are: Helen Nelson, Fern Kerr, Irene Hull, Thorun Robel. Com- 
munist women in PTA were assigned to carry through the party line 
on such questions as civil liberties, academic freedom, greater appro- 
priations for anything connected with the educational field. Com- 
munist peace campaigns, and Negro-equality questions. The usual 
Communist- front method was employed to take some issue already of 
interest to the members of the organization and then to tack on in as 
feasible manner as possible some other meaning or issue which brings 
it closer to Communist policy. For example, the Communists, in sup- 
porting the day-nursery program, would, as Communists, deepen die 
understanding of the women as to the fact that it is women workers 
mainly who need these nurseries in operation. Thus class division and 
conflict is brought into the picture. 

Communists in PTA, as Communists everywhere else, should find 
contacts f ©r the party and attempt to recruit them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, Mrs. Hartle, to what extent was the Com- 
munist Party in this area interested in the work of the Progressive 
Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. To a very considerable extent. After the reconsti- 
tution, the Communist Party recognized its revisionism of Marxism- 
Leninism in the political field and decided that the correct program 
was for a new third, anti-imperialist party. After this ideological 
campaign had proceeded for at least a year, the Progressive Party 
was founded, preceded for a period by the Progressive Citizens of 
America. The Communist Party viewed this as a development along 
favorable lines and in this district threw considerable effort into the 
support and building of it and was able to furnish the top leadership 
as well in the State. 

Hugh DeLacy, head of the Progressive Citizens of America, Jerry 
O'Connell and Tom Rabbitt, head of the Progressive Party — all 
three of whom were in executive positions — were members of the Com- 
munist Party, to the best of my understanding. 

I have less knowledge of O'Connell's Communist Party member- 
ship than of DeLacy and Rabbitt, but have sat in Communist Party 
meetings with him when all present were Communists, and I under- 
stood him to be one also or at least so sympathetic as to make no actual 
difference. 

Many Communist Party members were for the founding of the 
Progressive Party in this State and worked in it after its founding. 
They numbered in the hundreds. The policy of the Progressive Party 
in this State was controlled by the Communist Party; and if there 
were any problems at all along this line, they came from national 
demands or from demands of persons and groups working also in 
the Progressive Party and whom the Communist Party wanted to 
retain and influence. 



6216 cojmjviunist activities in the pacific northwest area 

Other Communist Party leaders also in leadership of the Progres- 
sive Party were William J. Pennock, Karley Larsen, Fair Taylor, 
Tom Rabbitt, Jerry O'Connell. 

Communist Party members active in the Progressive Party were: 
Margaret Backlund, Pearl Thrasher, Frank Kerr, Ethel Roark, Ann 
Carlson, and Herman Schulz, Spokane; John Greenman, Tacoma; 
and Emma Harman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, the committee stall' has procured from 
the secretary of state of the State of Washington a photostatic copy 
of the reports required to be made by law of the proceedings of the 
nominating convention for the year 1952. It is noted that the certifi- 
cate is signed by Thomas C. Rabbitt, permanent secretaiy of the Pro- 
gressive Party. You have heretofore identified him as a member of 
the Communist Party, have you not ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes ; I have. 

j\Ir. Tavenner. The document referred to contains a certificate 
of attendance at the nominating convention of the Progressive Party, 
held on the 9th day of September 1952. Will you please examine 
the list and read into the record the names of those appearing thereon 
who are known to you to have been members of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. John Boan, Thorun Robel, Thomas C. Rabbitt, 
Florence Bean James, Margaret M. Donaldson, Thomas Patrick, 
Harriet Pierce, Fair Taylor, Alexander John Walters, Marjorie H, 
Rabbitt, Katherine B. Plumb, John L. Xeill, Caroline Newburger, 
Olga Kinneberg, Gunstan G. Rystad, Madeline L. Pattison, Cecil 
Dailey, John S. Daschbach, William J. Pennock. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you now count the number of those whose 
signatures appear on the list ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. Thirty-three. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have kept a record of the number of those identi- 
fied by you as members of the Communist Party. Out of the total 
list of 33 names, you have identified 19. 

Tlie staff has likewise procured from the Secretary of State a certi- 
fication from the Independent Party, made on the 12th day of Sep- 
tember 1950. Do you recall any of the circumstances surrounding 
the placing of a ticket in the field by the so-called Independent Party ? 

^Irs. Hartle. Yes, I recall some of the circumstances. While I 
was in the underground of the Communist Party, I received a brief 
description of what this Independent Party was. I was told that it 
had been impossible to place candidates for the Communist Party on 
the election ballot and that steps were taken then to put Communist 
candidates on an Independent Party ticket and take this means of 
bringing the Communist program into the election campaign. 

Mr. Tavenner. The certificate that is filed in behalf of the Inde- 
pendent Party is over the signature of Marion Kinney, as secretary 
of the Independent Party nominating convention, and the signature of 
Terry Pettus, chairman" of the Independent Party nominating con- 
vention. 

Can you identify either or botli of tliese individuals as persons 
known to you to have been members of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Hartle. Yes. They were both known to me as members of 
the Communist Party and both have been members of tlio district com- 
mittee of the Comnnmist Party. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6217 

Mr, Tavenner. Attached to the certification is an affidavit of at- 
tendance of certain persons at the nominating convention, consisting 
of a list purportedly signed by the individuals whose names appear 
thereon. The list shows a total of 49 persons in attendance at the 
convention. 

Will you examine the list, please, and read into the record the names 
of those whom you can identify from your own personal knowledge 
as having been members of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Those whom I have known as having been members 
of the Communist Party are : George Bailey, Harley G. Pickens, R. J. 
Gallagher, Paul M. Bowen, Mary van Lydegraf , Naomi Ellison, Baba 
Jeanne Decker, Guy H. Rader, E. B. Carmichael, Helga O. Phillips, 
Fern E. Kerr, Clark Harper, E. G. Henrickson, John W. Watson, 
William G, Mutch, Grace A. Mutch, Joseph Butterworth, Margaret 
Jean Backlund, Ruth E. Bitterman, Rosella Bailey, Emma L. Car- 
penter, Carl E. Backlund, Burt Nelson, Keith Stephan Bradley, Helen 
L. Bradley, John S. Daschbach, Dortha Bowen, Cecil E. Dailey, Anita 
Dobbins, Marion Kinney, Will H. Parry, Herbert J. Phillips, Elmer 
A. Kistler, Edward G. Kroener, Terry Pettus, Berta S. Pettus. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of the 49 persons appearing on the list, you have 
identified as persons known to you to be members of the Communist 
Party a total of 36. 

Mrs. Plartie, I hand you a list of names of persons, most of whom 
you have identified as members of the Communist Party during the 
course of your testimony. Will you examine this list and if you see 
on it names of persons not heretofore identified by you, will you 
please advise the committee as to the Communist Party identity of the 
persons in question ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Myrna Anderson, member of the waterfront section 
of the Communist Part}^ in Seattle in the latter 1940's ; Reba Baxter, 
members of the Communist Party of King County, whom I met at dis- 
trict functionaries' meetings in the latter 1930's; Whitey Baxter, 
whom I met in the latter r930's at district functionaries' meetings; 
Ethel Beach, whom I have already identified as Ethel Kramer; Lil 
Bitney, member of the Communist Party in the west Seattle section 
and in the Rainier Valley section of the Communist Party of Seattle 
in the latter 1940"s; Bea "Boyer, member and officer of the Downtown 
Section of the Communist Party in the early 1940's ; Hal Driggs, mem- 
ber in the North King County area of the Communist Party and ex- 
pelled in the latter 1940's. 

Al Bristol, organizer of the King County Communist Party in the 
latter 1930's, whom I have met at district functionaries' meetings; 
Harold Brockway, whom I met at district functionaries' meetings in 
the latter 1930's and whom I knew as a member of the 37th District 
Section of the Communist Party in the middle 1940's; John Brockway, 
whom I knew as organizer of the Bellingham Section of the Commu- 
nist Party and met at district functionaries' meetings in the latter 
1930's and whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party in 
west Seattle in the middle 1940's; Lois Brockway Blakes, whom I 
knew as a member of the Communist Party in the 37th district section 
in the latter 1940's; Leona Carpenter, whom I knew as a member of 
the Communist Party in the noith King region of the Communist 
Party in the latter 1940's ; Mel Chamberlain, whom I knew as a mem- 

48069— 54— pt. 3 7 



6218 COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

ber of the Communist Party in Spokane in the latter 1930's ; Marian- 
Cole, whom I knew as a member of the Communist Partj^ in the north 
King region in the latter 1940's; George Collins, whom I knew as a 
member of the 37th District Section of the Communist Party and also 
as a member of the North King Region of the Communist Party; 
Gretchen Cook, whom I knew as an officer of the West Seattle Section 
of the Communist Party in the middle 1940's; Vivian Cross, whom I 
knew as a member of the Communist Party in Auburn, Wash., a 
woman who was employed by Boeing Aircraft and eitlier fired or 
laid ofl' by them; Dorothy Lofty Cumming, a member of the Com- 
munist Party in the central region of King County in the latter 1940's ; 
Harriet Dennett, whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party 
and met at district functionaries' meetings in the latter 1930's, and 
whom I met at King County functionaries' meetings in the early and 
middle 1940's ; Eugene Dennis, whom I knew as national general sec- 
retary of the Communist Party and have met with him at national 
conventions of the Communist Party ; Lenna Eby, whom I knew as a 
member of the Communist Party in the middle 1930's and met with 
at district functionaries' meetings, and whom I knew in the early and 
middle 1940's in King County and have Avorked with her in her assign- 
ment as district membership director. 

Ernie Fox, whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party, a 
leader in Communist Party trade-union work, and whom I met with 
in district functionaries' meetings in the middle 1930's; Jean Frank- 
felcl, whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party in King 
County, as educational director of the King County Communist Party, 
a full-time assignment, in the early and middle 1940's ; Joe Fugl, whom 
I knew as a member of the Communist Party in King County, as sec- 
tion organizer of a north King County section, in the early and middle 
1940's ; Phyl Gillette, with whom I have met at a national convention 
in 1938 in New York, and whom I have known as a member of the 
Communist Party in King County, in the early and middle 1940's ; Ida 
Glaser, whom I have known as a member of the Communist Party in 
King County and in the 37th District Club in the mid-1940's, and whose 
Communist Party dues I have collected; Leon Glaser, whom I have 
known as a member of the Communist Party in the 37th District Club 
in the mid-1940's and from whom I have collected Communist Party 
dues; Bert Goelcher, whom I have known as a member of the Com- 
nuinist Party in King County in the mid-1940's, with whom I have 
attended King County functionaries' meetings ; Ben Golden, whom I 
have known as a member of the Communist Party of King County in 
the mid-1940's and with whom I have discussed his Communist Party 
membership — he once traveled with Soviet movies for the district and 
showed one of these movies in Spokane, Wash.; Margaret Haggin, 
whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party in Spokane, Wash., 
in the late 1930's and have attended branch meetings with her ; Morrie 
Haggin, whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party in Spo- 
kane, Wasli., in the late 1930's and have attended railroad branch 
meetings with him; Al Hanover, whom I knew as a member of the- 
Communist Party in King County and as a member of a Communist 
branch in Bremerton in the mid and late 1940's, and have discussed his 
Communist Party membership with him ; Hilda Hansen, whom I knew 
as a member of the Communist Party in King County in the mid-1940's 
and have attended King County functionaries' meetings with her. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6219 

Delia Hayes, whom I have known as a member of the Communist 
Party in King County and a member of the Auburn branch of the 
Communist Party, in the micl-1910's, with railroad concentration; 
Jessie Harris, whom I have known as an officer of the King County 
Communist Party in the middle 1940's; Victor Hicks, who was intro- 
duced to me as a Communist Party member by Andrew Remes after 
World War II ; Bob Ingalls, whom I knew as a member of the Young 
Communist League in Spokane in the Middle 1930's, who went to 
Spain to take part in the armed conflict there and whom I knew in the 
middle 1940's as a member of the Communist Party in the Renton 
area ; Harry Jackson, whom I knew as the district trade-union direc- 
tor of the Communist Party in the middle 19o0'3 ; Al Jones, whom I 
knew as a member of the Communist Party in Spokane in unemployed 
work in the middle 1930's — I think he has died ; Claudia Jones, whom 
I knew as a national leader of the Communist Party, whom I have met 
at national conventions of the Communist Party and have heard her 
speak in that capacity at meetings in Seattle; Gus Klatt, whom I knew 
as a member of the Communist Party in the AVhite Center area and 
also as a member of the welders club of the Communist Party in Seattle 
]n the middle and late 191:0's; Mrs. Red Donna Kroener, whom I knew 
as a member of the Communist Party in the Duwamish Bend Club in 
the late 1940's; Paul Ledbetter, whom I recruited into the Communist 
Party and who was dropped from membership 2 or 3 months later on 
my advice that he did not seem to be of sound mind ; Paul Linderman, 
whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party in the west Seattle 
section in the middle 1940's; Rosalie Linderman, whom I knew as a 
member of the Communist Party and met with at King County func- 
tionaries' meetings in the early 1940's; Bea Logan, whom I knew as 
a member of the Communist Party in King County and as manager 
of the Communist Party Workers Book Store in the early 1940's. 

Hugo Lundquist, whom I knew as a member of the Communist 
Party in the Wallace-Kellogg area in Idaho and whose dues were trans- 
mitted to me by Harlow Wildman — Communist Party dues; Helen 
McCannon, whom I knew as a member of the Communist Partv in 
Seattle and as doing Communist Party work in the Progressive Citi- 
zens of America in the early 1940's; Ellen McGrath, whorn I knew 
as a member of the Communist Party in King County, with whom 
I have attended district committee meetings and whom I have known 
as a district committee member and as chairman of the district for a 
period of time ; Mel Ludington, whom I knew as an officer of the north- 
west Washington region of the Communist Party in the latter 1940's; 
Clarence Markham, a young Negro man whom I knew as a member of 
the Communist Party in King County in the middle and latter 1940's 
and also as a branch chairman ; Bob Miller, whom I knew as a member 
of the Communist Party in the Holly Park branch, who was formerly 
employed at Boeing's and was not rehired after the strike — I knew 
him in the middle and latter 1940's; Max Olsen, whom I knew as dis- 
trict youth director of the Communist Party in the latter 1930's; 
Gladys Pettus, whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party in a 
club in the Renton area in Seattle in the latter 1940's; Carl Reeve, 
whom I knew as Northwest district secretary of the Communist Party 
in the middle 1940's; Bill Roark, whom I have known as a section 
organizer of the Communist Party in King County in the middle 



6220 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 



1940's ; Pat Ryan, whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party, 
living in South King County on Empire Way and whom I had met at i 
King County functionaries' meetings; Louis Sass, whom I knew as! 
Northwest district organizational secretary of the Communist Party 
in the latter 1930's; Joe Simmonds. whom I knew as a member of thej 
railroad branch of the Communist Party in Spokane in the latter' 
1930's; Betty Smith, whom I knew as a member of the Communist 
Party in King County and whom I met with at King County func- 
tionaries' meetings in the early, middle, and late 1940'? — she was ex- 
pelled; Claude Smith, whom I have met with in King County 
functionaries' meetings in the early, middle, and late 1940's and who 
was expelled — he was active in legislative work of the Communist 
Party and ran for candidate on the Democratic ticket at one time. 

Ferdinand Smith, with whom I have attended closed Communist 
Party meetings in Seattle in the middle 1940's when he made a visit i 
to this area and who I knew as a leading Communist Party member! 
in the National Maritime Union and as an officer of that union ii 
rhe middle 1940's; Walter Stack, with whom I have met in district 
plenums in the middle 1930's; Axel Starr, whom I have known as 
member of the Communist Party in the northwest Washington regioiil 
and as a Communist in a lumber union in the middle and latter 1940's ;! 
Andy Sundin, whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party! 
in Spokane in the latter 1930's and whom I knew as business agent! 
of an engineers' local ; Ralph Hall, whom I have known as a memberj 
of the Communist Party in King County from 1942 to 1950, hold- 
ing various offices and including Northwest district press director— -j 
I also laiew him in the underground of the Communist Party anc 
loiew that he used the name of Carl Swanson ; Henry Villa vaso, whomi 
I knew as a member of the Communist Partv in the Jackson Streetj 
Club as chairman in the late 1940's ; Lowell Wakefield — I attended a| 
Northwest district plenum at which Lowell Wakefield spoke as editor 
(>i the Voice of Action, and knew him as a district leader in that capac-j 
ity in the middle 1930's — I was present as a delegate from the Spokane! 
section ; Herb Walters, whom I knew as a member of the Communist! 
Party in Spokane, Wash., in the middle 1930's and as a Communist! 
Party member in the hod carriers' local of Spokane, and as a delegate! 
to the Central Labor Council of Spokane from the hod carriers' local;! 
James West, whom I knew as youth director of the Northwest district! 
of the Communist Party in the latter 1930's and whom I have met! 
in Spokane and at district functionaries' meetings; INfuriel Wildmanj 
Crowe, whom I knew as a member of the Communist Party in Kings! 
County in the early and middle 1940's and have attended Kings County 
functionaries' meeting with her; Henry Winston, whom I have known! 
as national organizational secretary of the Communist Party and have! 
met with him and corresponded with him in that capacity while I was! 
district organizational secretary in 1945-46, and who was known to! 
me as a national committee member — I attended classes taught by 
him at a national training school which I attended in early 1946 where 
he taught on the Negro question, and also I was present with him asj 
a fellow delegate at the reconstitution convention of the Communist f 
Party in 1945. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Mrs. Hartle, we have heard some witnesses beforel 
the committee refer with a measure of pride to what was termed the 
"democracy of the Communist Party," while other witnesses haval 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6221 

stated that there was no democracy within the Communist Party, and 
man}' witnesses have indicated that it was due to the lack of democracy 
that they began to think in terms of leaving the Communist Party. 
Will you please explain to the committee your knowledge of this 
subject? 

Mrs. Hartle. Despite the fact that "democracy" is one of the key 
slogans of the Communist Party, in its organizational structure it 
bases itself on democratic-centralism. According to this, the leader- 
ship is elected at various levels. The branch m.embers elect the branch 
officer and executive committee and delegates to section conventions. 
The delegates to section conventions elect the section officers and section 
committee and delegates to the region, and so on up through whatever 
levels may exist, such as county. State, district, to the national leader- 
gliip. 

Until the Communist Party disaffiliated from the Communist Inter- 
national, delegates from the national convention were elected to the 
Commtern Convention. 

Once the committees and delegates have been elected, their decisions 
are binding on those who elected them. After delegates have gone 
from several branches to a section convention and elected a section com- 
mittee, the decisions of this committee are binding on all the branches 
and members thereof involved. A branch or member may appeal 
a section committee decision but, pending the outcome of the appeal, 
they must abide by the decision. This applies throughout. 

A number of explanations are given of the superiority of this sys- 
tem of organization. The party of the working class, the Communist 
Party, must have unity of will for necessary striking power, because 
under capitalism the working class is oppressed by the capitalist class 
and constantly split and one section set against another to keep it weak- 
ened. Another explanation is that the best developed leadership is 
assured by this type of choice. Democratic centralism is necessary for 
unity of will and action. 

The "democratic" part of democratic centralism is that the mem- 
bers or delegates have freedom of discussion and choice before they 
make their decisions and elect their delegates. 

Lenin explains that in times of illegality the democratic part cannot 
be carried out, that leadership must be picked from the top on down. 

In actual practice, the leadership is picked from the top on down. 
This was done from the time I joined until I left Seattle in 1950. The 
methods varied but nomination by a top committee or person is tanta- 
mount to election. 

Since the reconstruction, all pretense of election was dropped. Re- 
gional organizers were chosen in advance by the district officers and 
election at conventions was a mere formality or afterthought. The 
"security" campaign made this procedure plausible. 

"In the best interests of the party and working class" to top leader- 
ship always uses the ways and means necessary to eliminate undesirable 
members or officers and never fails to succeed. 

There is much talk of eliminating "bureaucratic" officers and meth- 
ods of work. The whole reconstitution gave glowing promises along 
this line. The temporary disorientation and organizational loosening 
up of the reconstitution period was rapidly overcome, so that by 1949 
and 1950 the tightness of control as regards political line and leading 



6222 COM]VIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

personnel exceeded that of any other period that I had experienced in 
the party. 

Tlie whole proaram to tighten control was based on the idea that 
revisionism of Marxism-Leninism must be rooted out. The method 
used was to pay much more attention to the review commissions, see- 
inc; that top people should be on it, with the ability and responsibility 
to analyze all leadership. Such a review of re<rional leadership was 
takinof place when I left Seattle in 1950. The entire past history and 
present characteristics of this personnel was investi;orated. 

Although I was not a member of the district reA'iew commission, I 
participated as district leader in one session in the examination of 
North King regional organizer Helen Huff and North King organi- 
zational secretary Elmer Kistler. Clayton Van Lydegraf also partici- 
pated in this examination. To the best of my recollection he was as- 
signed by the district board to participate with the review commission 
in its examination work. The aim of the review was to determine the 
reliability of the leadership. 

The totalitarianism of the Communist Party flows from its accept- 
ance of Marxism-Leninism as the only scientific, consistent analysis of 
the world. The political program, organizational methods, and the 
activities of the Communist Party are therefore "scientific," are either 
correct or incorrect, and a division of opinion must necessarily be re- 
solved as to which side is "scientific." Since Marxism-Leninism is also 
defined as a partisan science, the science of the working class, the 
science of the proletarian revolution and the establishment of socialism, 
the ordinary tests of science do not apply. I found this concept ex- 
tremely difficult to grasp and teach, and attributed the difficulty to my 
"intellectual" background, feeling that I had not yet rooted out "bour- 
geois" influence in my thinking. 

The Communist Party makes it eminently clear to its members and 
leaders that persons of "intellectual" background will have much more 
bourgeois baggage to rid themselves of than those without the handi- 
caps of a bourgeois education. They are thus put on the defensive and 
the question becomes: Can he grasp Marxism-Leninism or not? 

]Mr. Tavexner. Committee investigations have disclosed a very 
definite interlocking of peace proposals advocated by the Communist 
Party of the United States with pronouncements of the foreign policy 
of the Soviet Union. Will you please state to the committee what the 
effect of peace proposals by the Communist Party of the United States 
had in recruiting members to the Communist Party and will you also 
give the committee a brief history of the peace programs of the Com- 
munist Party of the United States ? 

Mrs. Hartle. The strongest and most continuous appeal that the 
Communist Party program and Marxist-Leninist theory had for me 
was its contention that it was for peace. I became convinced that in 
a Communist world that the causes for war would be removed. I 
accepted Marxist-Leninist theory about just and unjust wars with the 
understanding that once the world had gone through these inevitable 
wars that a situation would result in which there would be no more 
wars of anj kind. I was also convinced that the Communist move- 
ment on a world scale and the Soviet Government of communism al- 
ways did everything they could to prevent wars from breaking out and 
only engaged in combat on the "just" side to further the liberation of 
mankind and to reach the situation of world peace. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6223 

Convinced that Soviet Russia led by the Communist Party could 
not possibly want or foster war, I believed that the "peace" programs 
of the CPUSA, which always coincided with the "peace" policies of 
Soviet Russia, were truly in the best interests of our country and the 
American people. I believed that bioj business interests in our country 
were the ones who opposed these genuine peace prog-rams and that the 
American people had nothing to gain and everything to lose by sup- 
porting their war ventures. 

The "peace" programs of the CPUSA always coincided with the 
foreign policy of Soviet Russia. The CPUSA supported the Soviet 
policy for "collective security" in the late 1930's on the basis that Hitler 
fascism was out to conquer the world. According to the Communist 
Party program, the United States of America should have supported 
Russia's proposals for an anti-Hitler pact in which England, France, 
and other countries should take part. This appeared to me as an 
effective peace program. When this collective security policy of 
Russia failed and the Hitler-Stalin pact was signed, the Communist 
Party declared that Russia could not have done anything else, that it 
needed the time for building up its defenses, that it gained valuable 
time in which to be able to defeat Hitler Germany later on. The Com- 
munist Party described the Hitler-Stalin pact as a nonaggression pact, 
that Russia in no way was giving comfort or support to Hitler, and as a 
Communist I had confidence that Soviet Russia knew what it was 
doing and that this was in the best interests of not only Russia but the 
whole world peace program. 

Although I was for most of this period on leave of absence from the 
Communist Party, I subscribed to the Daily Worker and presented 
resolutions in the cooks and waiters union, of which I was a member, 
and in the Cascade Trades and Labor Assembly, in which I was a dele- 
gate for several months, at Great Falls, Mont., along Communist policy 
lines. I distinctly remember presenting a resolution to the assembly, 
which I believe was passed, to the effect that "the Yanks are not com- 
ing," which was a key Communist slogan in that period. 

The first part of World War II, until Hitler attacked Soviet Russia, 
was described by the Communist Party as the "imperialist phase" of 
the war ; after Russia was attacked, the character of the war changed, 
it became a war of national liberation. It was pointed out that the 
size and importance of Russia is what changed the balance. At a later 
date, Stalin, it seemed to me then, as a Communist, corrected some 
inexact formulations. He said that there were elements of "justness" 
in the war throughout, but that these elements of justness were not 
predominant, but with Soviet Russia getting involved these "just" 
elements took over and now it was truly a war for the liberation of 
mankind. As a Communist I ascribed these errors in formulation to 
a tendency of the CPUSA to being mechanical in its analysis, to over- 
simplifying the definition of the first phase of World War 11. 

Many members dropped away from the Communist Party during 
this period; the membership declined drastically. Spokane, which 
had once reached a membership between three and four hundred dur- 
ing the middle thirties, was down to 17 members when I returned 
from Great Falls in 1941. During the imperialist phase of World 
War II, the Communist Party went through a "testing" period ; much 
was said of the importance of members who do not flinch in difficult 
times, Andrew Remes, acting district organizer at that time, told me 



6224 COMMUNIST ACTWITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

that we should attach particular importance to the members who 
lasted through this phase, as they were worth more than a larj^e num- 
ber of members who joined and stayed in the Communist Party in 
easier times. I ascribed my own uneasiness during this period to lack 
of resoluteness as a Communist, never questioned the correctness and 
justice of the Communist position. To have left the Communist Party 
at that time to me would have meant deserting under difficulties. I 
had long been taught, very consistently and very thoroughly, that to 
give in to the "Red scare" meant to be a deserter and coward in the 
face of the class struggle. I was fully convinced that the reason that 
many millions, even the majority of our country, did not follow Com- 
munist Party policies was because they were prevented by undemo- 
cratic elements from learning the truth about it and because when they 
did learn the truth they were afraid because of the difficulties involved 
to take their place in the struggle. 

With the Hitler attack on Russia in 1941 and the change in the 
character of the war, the Communist Party position changed to sup- 
port to the allied side of the war. Internally this change of position 
created serious problems. In Spokane several members had been re- 
cruited into the party on the basis of antiwar, and the problem of how 
to bring them to understand the necessity of being for war was a press- 
ing one. I obtained material as rapidly as I could to arm myself for 
this reorientation. One of the pamphlets, the Turning Point in the 
War, by Allen, seemed to me to be a masterpiece of explanation. 
This pamphlet helped me considerably to understand the change and 
armed me with arguments to convince others. Although I did not 
leave the Communist Party during the imperialist phase of the war, 
but was only on leave of absence, I greatly welcomed this change in 
events and found new enthusiasm for party work. 

The peace program was dropped and into its place, especiallj' after 
Pearl Harbor, came the "win the war" program of the Communist 
Party. I was fully in accord with the Communist Party program 
for support to the war and wholeheartedly engaged in many "win the 
war" activities as a Communist. My attachment to peace, on which I 
had relied strongly in other situations to bolster my confidence in the 
Communist Party positions, evaporated. I felt that I had reached the 
stage of being a more fully developed Communist, who takes his posi- 
tion on just and unjust wars as he should in the interests of the class 
struggle, and that I had overcome pacificist tendencies. Pacificism, 
according to communism, is to be opposed to all wars. 

After World War II, the Communist Party adopted a "win the 
peace" policy, which again dovetailed with Soviet Russia's foreign 
policy to create demobilization on the basis that after defeat of the 
Fascist Axis there would be a peaceful world. 

In 1945 the reconstitution of the CPUSA took place. At that time, 
as a Communist, I did not connect this event in my mind with the 
reeducation program in Marxism-Leninism that was taking place in 
Soviet Russia, although I read about this program. To me it seemed 
that the reconstitution was an internal Communist problem, that the 
Communist Party had gotten off the track of Marxism-Leninism and 
was getting back onto it. 

Shortly after World War II, it appeared to me that the reconsti- 
tution was very correct and that the imperialist forces in our country 
were not interested in winning the peace but were driving toward 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6225 

further war. The whole reconstitution discussion revolved around 
a reestimate of American capitalism, the class struggle, the role of the 
Communist Party, and convinced me that under Browder's leadership 
we had lost sight of the true character of capitalism and the responsi- 
bility of the Communist Party to give leadership in the struggle 
against the imperialist war drive of American capitalism and the 
inherent drive towards fascism in an imperialist country. Thus 
when the Communist Party assumed its anti-imperialist world war 
III peace program, I was convinced that the Communist Party now 
was on the right track. I did not then see the whole reconstitution 
campaign as one to reorient the Communist Party along the lines of 
interest to Soviet Russia, which, in fact, it did. 

The Stockholm Peace Pledge petition campaign was organized by 
the Communist Party in this district. Party organizations and mem- 
bers were given quotas; plans for its circulation were made in the 
Communist Party from the district board on down through the 
branches. This campaign received all the political and organizational 
attention of which the Communist Party in this district was capable. 
Several thousand signatures were obtained on street corners, in the 
neighborhoods and from members in organizations that Communist 
Party members could contact. The mam work was done by Com- 
munist Party members, although considerable effort, without much 
success, was made to involve non-Communist Party people in working 
for the campaign. Persons solicited for signatures were not advised 
that the Communist Party was in any way connected with it. 

The peace program of the Communist Party after the outbreak of 
the war in Korea was to contend that the cause of peace could only 
be served by either the United States forces withdrawing from Korea 
or by the defeat of South Korea. In a leaflet written by Clayton Van 
Lydegraf immediately after the outbreak of hostilities in Korea, the 
northwest district took the position that this war must be stopped — to 
fail to do so would lead to imperialist world war III. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, we have heard during this and many 
other hearings that individuals terminated their party membership 
without any formal action in doing so. Will you please explain to 
the committee whether or not any method is recognized by the Com- 
munist Party for terminating membership by action on the part of 
the member ? 

Mrs. Hartle. In the Communist Party there is no established way 
for leaving the organization. The constitution says that a member 3 
months in arrears in dues is no longer a member in good standing. 

At the first of each year a reregistration campaign takes place, at 
which time all those who are going into the comine: year as members 
are reregistered. Those who do not come to the branch reregistra- 
tion meeting are visited for this purpose. These reregistration cam- 
paigns during the period from 1933. when I joined the party, until 
1950, when I left Seattle to go underground, usually lasted in full 
force for the first 6 months of the year and were sometimes not con- 
cluded until just before the beginning of the reregistration for the 
next year commenced. 

I have reregistered members who were 2 years behind in dues, col- 
lected these 2 years' dues and reregistered them as continuous membei'S. 
At other times I have visited unreregistered members and as the 
time for reregistration was set more definitely in that year, have re- 



6226 cojvcviuNiST actwities in the pacific xorthwest area 

recruited them into the party. The policy of the Communist Party 
on membership is that members are not dropped on the basis of non- 
payment of dues, nonattendance at meetings, or failure to engage in 
activities for the Communist Party. 

I remember one instance m l^^pokane ^yhen the district organizer 
Eappaport delivered a stern lecture to those of us working on rereg- 
istration. He had learned that we felt that if the members did not 
pay up their dues and come to meetings, we wanted to drop them and 
quit running around after them to get them reregistered. He said 
that we had no right or political sense to adopt this attitude and 
asked how we would feel if someone decided to drop us. 

The policy that I learned then and understood as a district leader 
was that members are not dropped without good and sufficient reason 
to do so, such reasons being outright disagreement with or hostility 
toward the Communist Party policies or its leadership. Disinter- 
est is not accepted as a reason for dropping a member. Such a per- 
son is supposed to be worked on, to revive his interest. 

The Communist Party does recognize such a thing as "former 
members," perhaps who have consistently made excuses for not being 
members, persons who have moved and been lost track of and show 
up again and are recognized, persons who have moved in from another 
district without transfer and reveal their former membership, and 
persons that have been neglected through poor organizational work 
or forgotten about. This type of former member, who has expressed 
no serious disagreement or hostility is added to the Communist Party 
lists with the aim of reintegrating him into the party, either through 
rerecruitment or reregistration. When the party organization feels 
that it is not possible to convince the person to become an active, clues- 
paying member, the approach will be to retain him as a sympathizer, 
sell him Communist Party literature, raise funds, discuss Communist 
policy with him — to activize him along the lines of these policies in 
one form or another. 

I remember another instance in Spokane when I expressed dissatis- 
faction with a person who followed the party policies but refused to 
join the party. A man named Boyer, representative of some Com- 
munist-front organization, probably the Friends of the Soviet Union, 
chided me and said that I sliould understand that those "who are near 
to us are dear to us." I learned then and have understood since 
throughout my Communist Party membership that a Communist 
Party sympathizer is to be valued highly. 

Tlie most definite way to get out of the Communist Party is to be 
expelled. To achieve this a member must commit some offense against 
the party and then refuse to recognize his error. This member will 
then have a definite date on which his membership was terminated. 

The problem of leaving the Communist Party is not an involved one 
if the person is no longer under Communist influence. He can declare 
his disaffiliation publicly or, if he does not wish to do that, he can 
shake tlie Communist Party's claim on him by reporting his decision 
to the FBI. Such drastic steps would not be necessary were it not 
for the fact that tlie Communist Party pursues its members and con- 
tacts long after tliey have sliown every evidence of no further interest. 
The Communist position is that it is repression of freedom for a person 
to have to report to the FBI in order to leave tlie Communist Party. 
They brush aside laws, security regulation?, and public opinions that 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6227 

involve Communist practice and policies, and overlook the fact that a 
person who no longer wishes to be a Communist finds it impossible 
to establish this fact from the Communist Party but must do so sepa- 
rate and apart from the party. 

The Communist Party policy, as shown in the Seattle Smith Act 
trial, is to refuse to name members of the Communist Party and, in 
order to do this, it logically follows for them to refuse to say who is not 
in the Communist Party. 

The practice of accepting resignations of party members before 
they sign Taft-Hartley affidavits is a recent innovation. Formally 
quitting the party in this manner has never been Communist Party 
practice in my entire membership. 

The Communist Party regards all of these procedures in matters 
of organization as being very superior to those of ordinary organiza- 
tions and as based on deep theory. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Hartle, the committee would be glad to hear 
your views on the best method to combat communism within the 
United States. 

Mrs. Hartle. To the best of my present understanding, the best 
way to combat the Communist Party is to isolate and expose it. Any 
method of combating the Communist Party that gives it an oppor- 
tunity to tie itself up with other forces only plays into its hands. This 
is difficult to avoid in all circumstances, for the very reason that the 
Communist Party methods and activities are such as constantly to tie 
themselves in with other forces and organizations and to espouse a 
thousand issues which are of some interest to the people generally. 

Exposure of the real nature of the Communist Party, using some 
of the proof right out of the horse's mouth, as was done in the Seattle 
Smith Act trial, seems to me to be valid for broad, public, educational 
campaigns about it. The Communist Party circulates books and 
pamphlets with titles that would enlighten the average American 
immensely as to its real intents, especially its basic Marxist-Leninist 
works. 

The exposure of hidden Communists in government seems to me to 
be of great importance to exposure of the Communist Party, for here 
the people can get an inkling that the Communists are not aboveboard 
in their dealings. Exposure of Kussian espionage agents as connected 
with the Communist Party of this country would open the eyes not 
only of the people but of Communist members themselves. Evidence 
can be obtained within the Communist Party as to the opinions of 
Communists about such espionage work, but I am sure that it will have 
to be obtained in off-the-record conversations. 

The Smith Act cases have created the most difficulties for the Com- 
munist Party internally. They have disrupted its leadership, de- 
stroyed to a large extent the ability to organize its work, have forced 
the Communist Party to spend a lot of time and energy to reorganize 
itself along lines so that it can continue functioning, and have immobi- 
lized at least half if not more of its membership. The Communist 
Party does not welcome Smith Act cases as good issues to fight on; 
it realizes that it will lose much more than it can gain out of them. 

I believe that labeling of Communist members, publications, and of 
activities would be an extremely efi'ective way to reduce its effective- 
ness. The Communists could not then so easily cry "free speech," 
but would be in the embarrassing position of having to issue their 



6228 COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

material under their own name. This would be a great help to many 
peoj^le. 

Identification of Communists and their activities seems to me to 
have an effect that is more beneficial than outlawing them. Practi- 
cally it has the s ame effect on the Communist Party, as the people will 
not respond in any numbers when they are aware of Communist 
identity. 

Outlawing the Communist Party would give it the excuse to go 
completely underground. This would reduce the Communist Party 
to a shell but would make it more difficult for the authorities to keep 
track of it, and this shell would consist of those Communists who 
would be the most tested and tlierefore the greatest menace in any 
situation which they might be able to operate to their advantage, such 
as sabotage in wartime. As the Communist Party is further isolated 
and exposed, there is every probability, in my opinion, that it may go 
underground completely of its own accord. In that event, directly 
outlawing it might be practical, for then such a step would be largely 
an educational feature and would be based directly on the Communist 
Party's own actions, as then it would be clear to the public as a whole 
that the Communist Party is not a political party, as it contends it is. 

My own experience is that one labor leader, fully acquainted with 
the Communist Party and opposed to it, can be an effective bar to 
Communists infiltrating a union. Special educational work among 
labor leaders and others, it seems to me,, would create an important 
force to combat Communists and their program. The impact of such 
pamphlets as How to Spot a Communist in a Labor Union was con- 
siderable on the Communists, but the ones I saw were not ver}^ com- 
plete. 

Greater attention to anti-Communist educational campaigns di- 
rected toward those sectors of the people that are most vulnerable to 
Communist propaganda seem important to me as part of the whole 
program. If more labor leaders, educators, Negro leaders, women, 
and others were to speak more articulately on this problem, I feel 
certain that a big interest and response would be forthcoming that 
would be extremely valuable for our country. 

The kind of w^ork that the Velde committee did in San Diego seems 
very effective to me. Like the Smith Act cases, the problem is taken 
out of the realm of mystery and is put concretely and simpl}^ before 
the people, with clear factual data and names to support the conten- 
tions, and with the type of public relations approach that draws more 
people into the whole anti-Communist campaign. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you please tell the committee what security 
measures were adopted by the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Hartle. Communist Party security measures are based on 
basic Marxist-Leninist theory, which is that a true Communist Party- 
revolutionary party of the proletariat or whatever its name — will use 
both legal and illegal methods, as the situation demands. I have read 
a statement by V. I. Lenin, Collected or Selected Works, that a party 
that refuses to combine illegal with legal methods is not a truly revolu- 
tionary party of the working class. 

The illegal methods are justified by the argument that under capital- 
ism there is the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, which exploits the 
working class, and is a minority in any country. According to this,. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6229 

the laws and institutions of the government of a capitalist country 
were made by and are enforced by a minority against the interests, 
welfare, etc., of the overwhelming majority of the jjeople of a country. 
The Communist Party, representing the interests of the working class 
and of the overwhelming majority of the people of a country, cannot 
be bound by these minority laws, unless it wants to betray the working 
class and people. The Communist Third International accused the 
Socialist International — second international — of doing just that. 

Security measures are taken by the Communist Party to protect the 
party of the working class from destruction by the bourgeois-dictated 
government, says the Communist Party. 

Some of the measures are : 

(a) Avoidance of arrest of leadership. In about 1934 in Spokane 
the then district organizer, Morris Rappaport, instructed section com- 
mittee members and other active members to find a place to stay in case 
of warning, where the police would not be able to find them. 

(h) In the middle thirties precautions were taken in the sending of 
dues, recruit cards, and transfers of membership, using unknown — as 
Communist Party — addresses in both Spokane and Seattle for this 
purpose. This practice was resumed in the late 1940's or else the busi- 
ness was done from person to person instead of using mails at all. 

(c) By 1940 and 1950, much greater precautions were taken in hold- 
ing Communist Party meetings, with the aim of preventing the author- 
ities from knowing the content or personnel of the meetings. Des- 
ignated persons would meet other persons scheduled to attend at street 
corners or in cafes and take them to the meeting so that none would 
have an opportunity to inform as to the place. Luncheons were being 
served on the premises with no permission to leave the building until 
the meeting was over, with the same purpose as stated above in mind. 

(d) Screening: In the late 1940's the Communist Party developed 
a greater vigilance against keeping suspect members, and the district 
leadership carefully scrutinized the list of proposed persons to attend 
district conferences and exercised direct veto on any persons whom 
it suspected of being in any way unreliable. This scrutinizing was not 
directed at suspected FBI agents — they would not be allowed to stay 
in the party at all — but was directed at persons believed not to be suffi- 
ciently reliable to count on absolutely. 

(e) Measures to conceal Communist Party membership: parking 
cars some distance away from a known Communist's home or a Com- 
munist meeting place. Abandoning the practice of keeping branch 
and other party organization minutes and membership lists; abandon- 
ing the use of the United States mail for anything that would reveal 
Communist Party membership — in the late 1940's. 

(/) In the late 1940's not using the district or regional or section 
headquarters phone for transacting much of the party's business ; not 
leaving records or other material overnight in the Communist Party 
offices ; and not leaving material in the wastepaper basket that might 
reveal plans or Communist Party membership. 

(g) In the late 1940's, as a part of the whole reconstitution program 
and thereafter, the size of party clubs was reduced several times. By 
early 1950 the clubs had been divided into small groups, with the clubs 
meeting one week and the groups meeting separately the next week. 
The understanding was that soon it might be necessary to abandon 
club meetings altogether and have meetings of the smaller groups 

48069— 54— pt. 3 8 



6230 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 

only. The clubs then had approximately 12 members and the groups 
approximately 4 members. Some clubs and groups had not yet 
achieved this status, but that was the organizational directive to be 
carried out. 

(h) Covering telephones with a blanket or leaving on a radio were 
methods used to prevent a recording device from being successful. 

(^) In the early and middle 1930's the practice of using party names 
was used to conceal identity of members, with the explanation that 
this was to protect members in their employment. The use of party 
names was not resumed in the late 1940's and early 1950 — no names 
at all were used in records. Branch secretaries and group secretaries 
were also instructed not to use initials either. 

(j) By late 1949 and early 1950, the membership of the district 
board was no longer revealed to the membership generally, as had been 
done to some extent, especially with known Communists, in earlier 
periods. 

(k) In connection with the underground, a whole series of new 
security measures were adopted. Underground members changed 
their names and complete identity, secured social-security cards, driv- 
er's licenses, and all other necessary documents under false names and 
identity. 

Underground members bought new cars under false names and gen- 
erally conducted their entire affairs so as to escape being identified by 
anyone at all except their contact. Underground members were in- 
structed to be particularly watchful as to whether anyone was fol- 
lowing them or recognized them. 

( I) Loose gossip, unnecessary talk about matters that were not being 
directly transacted on party assignment, were campaigned against in 
the late 1940's and early 1950 by Communist Party leaders. The aim 
was to reduce the possible information that an FBI agent might gain 
to the barest minimum. 

(in) Such financial records and other material as still remained in 
the district office in 1950 were either destroyed or removed. The Com- 
munist Party district policy was to have nothing in the office except 
such material as was being distributed publicly. 

(n) Communist Party membership cards were abandoned in about 
1948. Communist Party dues stamps were used as a receipt to mem- 
bers, with the advice that they should probably best tear them up. 
Members were not required to accept the stamps, in which case the 
secretary destroyed them in their presence. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of any instances in which Communist 
Party members were sent into the Seattle area to obtain employment 
in sensitive industries ? 

Mrs. Hartle. During World War II a number of persons came 
into the Seattle area and went to work in the shipyards and in the 
Boeing Aircraft factory and who secured their transfers and became 
members of the Communist Party in this district, especially in Seattle. 
During the latter part of World War II and until shortly after it, a 
branch of the Comnuniist Party existed composed of Bremerton Naval 
Yard workers. It consisted of several persons who had come into the 
area and gone to work in the yard and then reported at Communist 
Party headquarters that they were members from other areas, and of 
several local Communists employed there. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6231 

In order that they should not be discharged, because of security- 
regulations, under my leadership this branch was organized on a 
security basis, with some care in holding meetings and in revealing 
their membership to others in the Communist Party or elsewhere. 
Besides regular educational and organizational tasks, the work of 
this branch revolved around what the members could do in their 
unions along the lines of the Communist Party win-the-war effort. 

After the war all of these members were laid off in the reduction 
of force. 

Some of the members were : Al Hanover ; George Collins. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the Communist Party take a position on the 
question of sharing responsibility of leadership with women in the 
Communist Party ? 

lilrs. Hartle. The theoretical position on the woman question, ac- 
cording to Marxism-Leninism is that women's equal rights and needs 
of women should not be fought for as such ; to do so is to take a femin- 
ist position. Instead, women's rights and needs should be fought for 
in such a way as to give support to the proletariat, and the main work 
should take place among women workers. It is considered by the 
Communist Party that women have an inferior status under capital- 
ism, which will be remedied completely under socialism and com- 
munism, at which time "male superiority" will be rooted out. 

The woman question is not a key question in the Communist Party, 
either in its basic theory where relatively little is written, or in its 
current works and practical program in the CPUSA. Usually, how- 
ever, there has been a national women's commission and a district 
women's connnissioii, subcommittees of the leading committees. Un- 
der this guidance, the commissions formulate programs of education 
and action designed to fit the policy of the Communist Party. During 
World War II the district women's commission put on a campaign 
to get women workers into Boeing's on the basis of all-out support 
to win the war, to meet the manpower shortage. A number of women 
Communist Party members went to work in Boeing's in the course 
of this campaign— estimate only : 25 to 35. The district women's 
commission in late 1949 and early 1950, under district assignment, 
headed a women-f or-peace petition campaign and organized work for 
the Stockholm Peace Pledge. A part or this program was to organize 
neighborhood women's peace committees. This was Communist-front 
work in the woman field. 

One of the main tasks undertaken by the district women's commis- 
sion was to attempt to get the Congress of American Women organ- 
ized in this State. Hazel McCannon, member of the district women's 
commission, was assigned by the commission to head this organiza- 
tion and carry out this task. She became the executive secretary of 
the Seattle chapter, and conferred with me regularly in that operation. 
The success of the Congress of American Women was very small in 
Seattle and never really got under way except for a few members in 
Tacoma and possibly Spokane. I spoke as a Communist woman lead- 
er to one of its meetings in Seattle. 

Members of the district women's commission at varying times ; Baba 
Jeanne Decker, Fair Taylor, Irene Hull, Helen Nelson, Helen Huff, 
Hazel McCannon, Marjorie Rabbitt, Mary Salvus. 



6232 coivcvruNisT activities in the pacific northwest area 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe to the committee, please, the type 
of control that the Communist Party sought to exercise over its 
members ? 

Mrs. Hartle. After a member joins the party, the whole process of 
completely controlling his life begins. Through reading Communist 
Party material, through discussions, formal and casual, and through 
Communist Party education in classes and schools, he is brought to 
understand the need for discipline, mental and physical. He learns 
that to become a true professional revolutionary means to put the party 
before everything else, in theory and in practice. Members who re- 
spond to the line and tasks of the party are extolled and used as ex- 
amples continually, while at the same time cautioning them in prole- 
tarian modesty and urging them to higher levels. The importance of 
the weapon of "criticism and self-criticism" is constantly stressed as 
the means of achieving party unity. The member grows to feel proud 
of the unity of the party as compared with the disorganization of other 
organizations. 

A true Communist will work where the party wishes him to. A part 
of the concentration program in 1948-50 was to direct persons not al- 
ready employed in important work or industries to enter lumber, 
marine, and aircraft, to become members of the respective unions, and 
to look to their future life in this party-chosen field. 

A true Communist will not leave an important field of work or area 
without party sanction. I know of one member, Mary Guilmet's hus- 
band, who was disciplined by the North King region for wanting to go 
to Alaska to work and live. I know of another member who wanted 
to go on a farm, Frank Kerr, but was prevailed upon to remain a< his 
job as a machinist in Pacific Car & Foundry. Clayton Van Lydegraf 
told me that Frank Kerr w^as trying to run away from responsibility 
and that steps were being taken to dissuade him. I myself sold my 
business, of which I was very fond, at party direction, so that I 
could run a party bookstore, which did not even pay me a salary for 
my effort. Members have been advised to get married and settle down, 
with the advice that this would make them better party members ; and 
members have been required to break with husbands or wives who 
went over to the "enemy." Wlien Harvey Jackins was expelled, I 
heard a discussion seriously held as to what his wife would do — go 
with him to the "enemy" or stay with the party. The Jackins have 3 
or 4 children. 

The propaganda and practices of the Communist Party are sucli that 
a member is put into a virtual vise — all in the name of freedom. 

According to Stalin, discipline is based on understanding. When an 
individual member's understanding fails, however, he will be subject 
to a harassment campaign to bring him back into line and activity. If 
that fails and he persists in expressing wrong ideas or in carrying out 
wrong activities, he will be brought up on charges, put to trial and 
disciplined. If he fails to bow to the will of the party, does not recog- 
nize his errors, he will be expelled. 

Financial demands of members are considerable. A day's pay, a 
week's pay and even a montli's pay is not considered excessive for the 
urgent fund drives of the Communist Party. Much attention is given 
1o extracting larger sums from those who may possibly have it or 
be able to raise it. I know of one campaign against the Mundt bill, 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST AREA 6233 

where a number of party members were induced to take mortgages 
on their homes. Marion Kinney told me in 1953 that she and her hus- 
band, Glen, are still paying off a $1,000 mortgage made to give the 
funds to the Communist Party. I know of a woman union office 
worker, Myrna Anderson, who had saved $1,000 and was induced to 
give it to the party in another fund drive. 

The Communist Party has a line on motion pictures, literature, 
art, music — in every field of culture. The recreation of members is 
guided by the Communist line. 

Especially since the reconstitution, the Communist Party has 
toughened its discipline and control, spent more effort on ascertaining 
the reliability of its leaders, and has raised its qualifications for 
membership. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Were you present at any meetings of the leadership 
of the Communist Party in which its attitude toward the Korean war . 
Avas discussed and, if so, will you tell the committee, please, what re- 
action you received from it? 

Mrs. Hartle. When I first heard of the outbreak of war in Korea, 
I was only able to think of it in Communist terms, that the United 
States, as the leading imperialist power in the world, had been driving 
toward launching another imperialist war, since shortly after World 
War II, and that Korea was a part of that effort. " Despite my Com- 
munist thinking, I felt stunned. I had become convinced that the 
Communist-led peace campaign was a very effective one and the out- 
break of the war in Korea shocked me into a dim realization of where 
Communist Party membership was heading, to outright opposition 
to the United States in wartime. I remember the first informal dis- 
cussion of the meaning of Korea among the staff in the Communist 
Party headquarters and that Clayton Van Lydegraf's analysis was 
that the Communist Party must sharply call for a stop to this war 
and pointed out that to do otherwise would lead into world war III. 
He immediately drafted a leaflet to this effect to be distributed rapidly 
to the regions, which was done. Although I was thinking and acting 
like a Communist, I do remember being particular to search articles 
for the detailed explanation of how this war got started. I remember 
feeling that there had been some awkwardness in the Communist press 
reportage of the detailed events and felt some uneasiness over the 
explanation that the proof of United States aggressiveness was John 
Foster Dulles' visit in South Korea shortly before the outbreak. 

It seemed to me that there should be a clear, more convincing expla- 
nation than that. I had not been able to furnish enthusiastic leadership 
in the Communist Party for some time and Korea seenied to fairly 
destroy my Communist morale and enthusiasm. At the time I ascribed 
this to poor health, personal problems, and the need for a rest. I did 
not view my mental and physical state as a result of disagreement with 
communism at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. With the thanks of the committee repeated, Mrs. 
Hartle, you are excused. 

(Whereupon the hearing was adjourned.) 



INDEX TO PART III 



iNDrV'IDUALS 

Page 

Alexander, Ed 6177, 6210 

Alexander, Paula 6143, 6172 

Allen, Eugenia (Mrs. Weir Alien) 6177 

Allen, Weir 6177 

Anderson, Myrna 6233 

Apt, Douglas 6164 

Apt, Roy 6164 

Apt, Zella (Mrs. Roy Apt) 6164,6209 

BackhuKl, Carl E 6149, 6150, 6178, 6179, 6217 

Backlund, Margaret Jean (Mrs. Carl Backlund; see also Irving, Margaret 

Backlund: King, Peggy) 6178,6213,6216,6217 

Bailey, George 6149, 6217 

Bailey, Rosella 6149, 6217 

Baker, Genevieve (Mrs. Perry Baker) 6178 

Baker, Perry 6178 

Barnes, Margaret (Mrs. Robert Barnes) 6177,6190 

Barnes, Robert 6177 

Batterson, Frank 6180 

Baxter, Reba 6217 

Baxter, Whitey 6217 

Beach, Ethel [see also Kramer, Ethel) 6217 

Belka, Mabel 6179 

Belka, Walter 6190 

Berner. George 6184 

Bernstein 6202 

Best, Kay (Mrs. Norman Best) 6183 

Best, Norman 6183 

Bitney, Lil 6217 

Bitterman, Annabelle Camozzi {see also Camozzi, Annabelle) 6177 

Bitterman, Jack 6173 

Bitterman. Ruth E. (formerly Mrs. Jack Bitterman) 6173, 6209, 6217 

Blair. Jack 6176 

Blakes, Lois Brockway 6184, 6217 

Blakes, P. J 6142,6202 

Boan, John 6171, 6216 

Bolotin, Abe 6171 

Bourke, W. A 6178 

Bourne, James K 6178, 6213 

Bowen, Dortha 6217 

Bowen, Paul M 6141, 6171, 6209, 6217 

Boyer, Mr 6226 

Boyer, Bea 6217 

Bradley, Helen L. (Mrs. Keith Bradley) 6166,6217 

Bradley, Keith Stephan 6166, 6217 

Branian, Lawrence 6183 

Bristol, Al 6217 

Brockway, Harold 6217 

Brockway, John 6217 

Brodine, Mary 6166 

Brooks, Carl 6142, 6202 

Brooks, Celeste (Mrs. Carl Brooks) 6142 

Brooks, William (Shorty) 6171 

Brooten, Lloyd 6184 



li INDEX 

Page 

Brooten, Opal (Mrs. Lloyd Brooten) H184 

Brooteu, Red 6184 

Browder, Earl 6131, 6134, 6203-6205, 6211, 6214, 6225 

Burton, Bernard 6211 

Butterworth, Joseph 6177, 6217 

Camozzi. Annabelle (see also Bitterruan, Annabelle Camozzi) 6177 

Campbell, Ray 6173 

Canafax, Caroline (Mrs. Leo Canafax; see also Newbiirger. Caroline 

(Kelly) ) 6163, 6209, 6210. 6214 

Canafax, Leo 6163, 6214 

Canwell 6162 

Carlson, Ann 6171, 6216 

Carlson, Gus 6163 

Carmichael, E. B 6217 

Carniiehael, Brook, Sr 1 6180.6100 

Carpenter, Earl 6183, 6208 

Carpenter, Emma L 6183,6208,6217 

Carpenter, Leona 6217 

Carpenter, Norman 6160 

Carpenter, Mrs. Norman 6160 

Carr, Herb 6174 

Carruthers, Jim 6178 

Carrutber.s, Marian (Mrs. Jim Carruthers) 6178 

Case. Victor 6178 

Castle, Dell 6149, 6202 

Castle, Pearl 6149 

Caughlan. John 6127-6129, 6202 

Ceis, Philip Ltither 6166, 6167 

Ceis, Winifred (Mrs. Philip Luther Ceis) 6166,6170 

Chamberlain. Mel 6217 

Chase. Dorothy (Mrs. Homer Chase) 6212 

Chase, Homer 6212 

Clark 6211 

Clark. John 6182 

Cleland, James 6176 

Cleland. Ruth 6176 

Cole. Marian 6218 

Cole, Staeey 6163 

Collins, Betty 6171 

Collins, George 6218, 62.11 

Collins, John 6181 

Conrad. Horace 6170 

Conrad. Mabel 6170 

Cook, Gretchen 6218 

Corr. Bill 6182 

Crabtree. Ed 6181 

Cross. Vivian 6218 

Crowe, Muriel Wildman 6220 

Crowe, Neil 6179 

Crowley. George 6176 

Crumbaker, Harry 6184, 6192, 6206 

Crumpley, Forrest 6176 

Cunnning, Bill 6171 

Cumniing, Dorothv Lofty (Mrs. Bill Gumming) 6171,6218 

Dahlko. Grace 6182. 6208 

Daily. Cecil E 6166,6216.6217 

Daschbach. John S 6177.6216.6217 

Daschbach, Marjorie (Mrs. John Daschbach) 6177 

Davis, John 6164 

Davis, Ralph 6172 

Davis, Sally (Mrs. John Davis) 6164 

Davis, Vince 6179 

Decker, Baba Jeanne {see also Sears, Baba Jeanne) 6142, 6149, 6217, 6231 

Decker, Robert 6181 

DeLacy, Hugh 6128, 6215 

Dennett, Harriet 6218 



INDEX iii 

Page 

Dennis, Eugene 6218 

Dobbins, Anita G217 

Dobbins, William K 6148 

Dokter, Ted 6150, 6190, 6209 

Donaldson, Margaret 6176, 6216 

Drew, Caroline 6211 

Driggs, Hal 6217 

Duclos 6197, 6203 

Dulles, John Foster 6233 

Eby, Lenna 6218 

Eddings, Genevieve (Mrs. Harold Eddings) 6183,6208 

Eddings, Harold 6182, 6183, 6208 

Ekroth, Nels Spencer 6185 

Ellison, Naomi (Mrs. Victor Ellison) 6181,6217 

Ellison, Victor 6181 

Evans, Giles 6158, 6189 

Fisher, A. A 6190 

Fletcher, Jess 6162 

Forschuieidt, Rachmeil (Rocky) 6171 

Foster, William Z 6132, 6150, 6151, 6203, 6211 

Fox, Ernie 6218 

Frazier, Seward 6172 

Frankfeld, Jean 6218 

Friel, Alice 6178 

Friel, Ed 6182 

Fugl, Joe 6218 

Furnish, Art 6184, 6206 

Gabaury, Vivian 6180 

Gallagher, R. J 6217 

Garretson, Jim 6164 

Garretson, Mrs. Jim 6164 

George, Mr 6211 

George, Earl 6141, 6158, 6201, 6202 

Gillette, Phyl 6218 

Gladnick. Robert 6153 

Glaser, Ida 6218 

Glaser, Leon 6218 

Glover, Ray 6190 

Glumas, Steve 6179 

Goelcher, Bert 6218 

Goforth. .John 6171 

Golden, Ben 6218 

Graham, George 6163 

Graham, IVIary Guilmet {see also Guilmet, Mary) 6147 

Graham, William 6183, 6190 

Grant, Rachel 6182 

Greenman, John 6181, 6216 

Guilmet. Mr 6232 

Guilmet, Bridget 6177 

Guilmet, Mary {see also Graham, Mary Guilmet) 6147, 6148, 6232 

Haggin, Caroline (Mrs. Jim Haggin) 6184,6206 

Haggin, Jim 6184, 6206, 6213 

Haggin, Margaret 6218 

Haggin. Morrie 6218 

Hall, Dorothea 6127-6233 

Hall, Loris 6177 

Hall, Ralph {see also Swanson, Carl) 6128-6130, 

6144, 6146, 6148, 6158, 6176, 6213, 6220 

Haller, Mark 6211 

Halonen, Oiva 6171 

Halonen. Tiami (Mrs. Oiva Halonen) 6171 

Hamilton, Bart 6177 

Hamilton, Bob 6212 

Hamilton, Mrs. Bob 6212 

Hanover, Al 6218, 6231 

Hansen, Hilda 6218 



iv INDEX 

Page 

Harding, Jean 6179 

Harman, Elmer 6170 

Harinan, Emma (Mrs. Elmer Harman) 6170,6216 

Harper, Clark 6142, 6171, 6202, 6209, 6217 

Harris, Calvin 6209 

Harris, Jessie 6219 

Hartle, Barbara (see also Johnson, Margaret S.) (testimony) 6127-6233 

Hartle, John 6128, 6183 

Hatten, Barry (C. T.) 6128 

Hautala, Helen 6178 

Hayes, Delia 6219 

Haywood 6209 

Hemeke, Verle 6181 

Henderson, Ellie (Mrs. Stan Henderson; Mrs. Stan Henrickson) 6180 

Henderson, Stan (see also Henrickson, Stanley William 6149 

Hendrickson, E. G 6217 

Henrickson, Stanley WilUam (see also Henderson, Stan)__ 6149,6162,6180,6209 

Hester, Lorraine 0170 

Hicks, Victor 6219 

Himofif, Mary 6211 

Hoover, J. Edgar 6145 

Hopkinson, Mr 6181 

Huff. Helen (Mrs. Henry Huff) 6148,6222,6231 

Huff, Henry 6130, 6143, 6145-6150, 6152, 6158, 6191, 6197, 6203, 6204 

Hughes, Bill 6165 

Hughes, (Hildur) Josephine (Mrs. Bill Hughes) 6153,6165,6214 

Hull. Irene 6215, 6231 

Ingalls, Bob 6219 

Irish, Nellie 6177 

Iverson, Stan 6185 

Jaokins, Dorothy (Mrs. Harvey Jackins) 6182 

Jackins, Harvey 6182, 6232 

Jackson, Harry 6219 

Jackson, Roy 6164 

Jackson, Mrs. Roy 6164 

James, Florence Bean 6216 

Jarvis, Elsie (Mrs. Fletcher Jarvis) 6178 

Jarvis, Fletcher 6178 

Johnson, Herb 6182 

Johnson, Hovrard 6211 

Johnson, Margaret S. (see also Hartle, Barbara) 6143 

Jones, Al 6219 

Jones, Claudia 6219 

Jones, Irving 6209 

Kaufman, Dr 6202 

Kautsky, Karl 6202 

Kerr, Fern E. (Mrs. Frank Kerr) 6163, 6215. 6217 

Kerr, Frank 6163, 6209, 6216, 6232 

Kimple, Merrill 6150, 6163, 6209, 6214 

Kinneberg, Olga 621*i 

Kinney, Alice Balmer 6170 

Kinney, Glen 6173, 6233 

Kinney, Marion Camozzi 6171, 6216, 6217, 6233 

Kinney, Robert 6179 

Kistler, Dorothy 6177 

Kistler, Elmer A 6217, 0222 

Klatt, Gus 6219 

Kramer, Ethel (.see also Beach, Ethel) 6172, 6217 

Kroener, Donna (Mrs. Ed Kroener) 6173 

Kroener, Edward G. (Ed) 6173, 6217 

Kroener, Mrs. Red Donna 6219 

Lampitt, Roy 6182 

Larsen, Karley 6186, 6190, 6191, 6216 

Lawrie, Jack, Jr 6171 

Lawrie, Jack, Sr. (John) 6148, 6171 

Ledbetter, Paul 6219 

Legg, Oliarles 6176 



INDEX V 

Page 

Lehman, Ed 6184 

Linderman, Paul 621V» 

Linderman, Rosalie 6219 

Logan, Beatrice (Bea; Mrs. Wyman Logan) 61S0, 6219 

Logan, Wyman 6180 

Luddlngton, Mel 6180, 6219 

Lundin, Peter 6164 

Lundin, Mrs. Peter 6164 

Lundquist, Hugo 6219 

Maloney, Dale 6164 

Manley, Al 6183 

Manley, Mrs. Al 6183 

Marshall, Andy 6174 

Markham, Clarence 6219 

Markson, Sam 6142 

Martin, Tony 6211 

Mayovsky, Ed 6172 

McCannon, Hazel 6231 

McCannon, Helen 6219 

McGrath, Ellen 6219 

Mero, Dave 6180 

Meservey, Al 6176 

Meyer, Jan 6183 

Meyers, Blackie 6181 

Miller, Anita 6209 

Miller, Bob 6219 

Mindel, Jacob 6211 

Moir, Gordon 6150, 6181, 6190 

Moir, Leona (Mrs. Gordon Moir) 6181 

Mouton. Louis 6172 

Murdock, Steve 6212 

Mutch, Grace A. (Tootie) 6179, 6217 

Mutch, William G 6217 

Namkung, Johsel 6189 

Neff, Walter 6211 

Neill, John L 6173,6216 

Nelson, Burt 6179, 6217 

Nelson, Helen (Mrs. Burt Nelson) 6215, 6231 

Nelson, Steve 6211 

Newburger, Caroline (Kelly) 6164,6216 

Nichols, Charles 6141 

Nusser, Charles 6211 

Nygren, Al 6180 

Nygren, Margaret (Mrs. Al Nygren) 6180 

O'Connell, Jerry 6215, 6216 

Olgin (3203 

Olsen. Max 6219 

Orten, O. M. (Mickey) 6186 

Parker, Sarah 6172 

Parry, Will H 6217 

Paschal, Dorothy (Mrs. Wayne Paschal) 6164 

Paschal, Wayne 6155, 0164 

Patrick, Jo 6182 

Patrick, Thomas 6216 

Pattison, Madeline (Patty) 6172,6216 

Payne, Earl 6142 

Pennock, William J. (Bill) 6211,6214,6216 

Perry, Red 6184 

Peters, J 6203 

Peterson, Mr 6182 

Pettus, Berta (Mrs. Terry Pettus) 6177,6217 

Pettus, Gladys 6219 

Pettus, Terry 6141, 6177, 6209, 6211, 6214, 6216, 6217 

Phillips, Helga O 6217 

Phillips, Herbert J 6217 



vi INDEX 

Page 

Pickens, Haiiey G 6217 

Pierce, Harriett 6165, 6216 

Plumb, John Robert 6127 

Plumb, Katharine B. (Ketch) 6170,6216 

Porter, Ruth 6210 

Powers, Charles 6183 

Price, Vince VaUloster 6176 

Rabbitt, Marjorie H. (Mrs. Tlionias C. Rabbitt) 6182,6216,6231 

Rabbitt, Thomas C. (Tom) 6182,6211,6215,6216 

Racier. Guy H 6217 

Ragland, John 6174 

Ranta, Carl 6179 

Ranta, Nell (Mrs. Carl Ranta) 6179 

Rappaport, Morris 6127, 6213, 6226. 6229 

Redwell, Clinton 6155, 6164, 6166 

Redwell, Mrs. Clinton 6166 

Reeve, Carl 6219 

Remes, Andrew 6127, 6128, 6160, 6177. 6178, 6219. 6223 

Remes, Doloi'es (Mrs. Andrew Remes) 6177 

Richardson, Chuck 6174 

Riley, Vernon Todd 6154-6156. 6183, 6208 

Riley. Mrs. "Vernon Todd 6154 

Roark, Bill 6219 

Roark, Ethel 6166. 6216 

Robel, Gene 6173 

Robel, Thorun 6164, 6215, 6216 

Roger.s, Larry 6179 

Russell. George 6153, 6154. 6163 

Rus.«:ell, Vi (Mrs. George Russell) 6163 

Ryan. Pat 6220 

Rystad. Gunstan G. (Gus) 6179, 6216 

Saari, Clara 6181 

Salvus, John 6166 

Salvus, Mary (Mrs. John Salvus) 6166, 6231 

Sass. Louis 6220 

Schneider, Eleanor 6176 

Schneider, Elizabeth 6184 

Schulz, Herman 6182, 6208, 6216 

Shain. Henry 6166-6169. 6174 

Shain, Mrs. Henry 6169 

Shanks. Frank 6183 

Shanks, Mrs. Frank 6183 

Shellman, Lenzie 6127 

Shemeria, Bill 6165 

Shifferlev. William Carl 6153, 6190 

Siefken, ' Fred 6183, 6190 

Simmonds, Evelyn 6183 

Simmonds, Joe 6220 

Smith, Betty <i220 

Smith, Claude 0220 

Smith, Ferdinand 6220 

Smith, Howard F 6176 

Stack, Axel 6220 

Stack, Walter 6220 

Starr, Algot 6180, 6190 

Stearn. Kay 6178 

Steinberg, Miss 6212 

Stoner, Cecil 6176 

Strom. Elmer ^1^^ 

Strom, Queenie (Mrs. Elmer Strom) 6178 

Stucker, Vivian 6177 

Sumler, Kater 6172 

Sundin, Andy 6220 

Suiioo. Harold 6210 

Sutherland, Mar.v 6181 

Sutherland, Milford 6146 



INDEX vii 

Page 

Swanson, Carl (sec (ilso Hall, Ralph) 6144, 6220 

Taylor, Fair 6216, 6231 

Taylor, James 6174 

Tlirasher. Elmer , 6173 

Thrasher, Pearl (Mrs. Elmer Thrasher) 6165,6173,6209,6216 

Tito 6204,6205 

Tosliatti 6151 

Tyler, Jerry 6214 

Van Lydegraf, Clayton 6150, 6209, 6217, 6222, 6225, 6232, 6233 

Van Orman, J. H 6184,6206,6213 

Van Orman, Ruth (Mrs. J. H. Van Orman) 6184,6206 

Villavaso, Henry 6220 

Wakefield. Lowell 6220 

Wallace, Ernest 6185 

Wallace, William (Red) W 6180,6185,6186 

Wallace, Mrs. William W 6180 

Walters, Alexander John 6216 

Walters, Herb 6220 

Watson, John W 6165,6217 

Weiss, Max 6211 

West, James 6220 

Westman, Lenus 6171, 6172 

Wheeler, Maybelle 6182,6208 

Whiteside, A 6182 

Wildman, Harlow 6183, 6219 

Wildman, Harold 6206 

Wildman, Leonard 6206 

Wildman, Ralph 6183 

Williins, Laura 6142 

Wilks, Eugene 6141 

Winburn, Joe 6184 

Winston, Henry 6211, 6220 

Young, Gladys Castle 6172 

Zobrist, John 6164,6209 

Organizations 

Aero Mechanics Union 6160 

American Bar Association 6151 

American Federation of Labor 6173, 6185, 6187, 6191 

American Federation of Teachers 6214 

Boeing Airplane Co 6154, 6160-6163, 6165, 6166, 6171, 6218, 6219,6230, 6231 

Bremerton Naval Yard 6230 

Building Service Employees Union, local 6 6148 

Camp Beacon, N. Y 6230 

Carpenters union ^ 6183 

Cascade Trades and Labor" Assembly 6223 

Central Labor Council 6187 

Central Labor Council of Spokane 6220 

Civil Rights Congress 6177 

Comintern 6131, 6220 

Communist International 6221 

Communist Third International 0229 

Communist Party : 

California 6159 

r)istrict Xo. 12. (See Communist Party, Washington State.) 

District No. 13. (See Communist Party, California.) 

Idaho 6183 

Coeur d'Alene section 6183, 6184, 6190 

Wallace-Kellogg area 6219 

Oregon State 6160 

Negro Commission 6142 

Washington State 6159, 6160, 6162, 6165, 6192 

Aircraft branch 6182 

Auburn branch 6218, 6219 



viii INDEX 

Communist Party — Continued 

Wasliington State— Continued Paee 

Bainbridge club 6182 

Ballard area 6177 

Bellingham section 6180, 6217 

Bremerton branch 6218 

Cle Elum County 6190 

District review commission 6171 

District youth committee 6209 

Enumclaw branch 6190 

Everett section 6180, 6181, 61<)0 

Grand Coulee branch 6182 

Hal-Spring club 6154, 6162, 6163 

Highland Park club 6164 

Industrial section 6182 

King County 6128, 

6142. 6147, 6148, 6160. 6170, 6171, 6175, 6178-6182, 6217-6220 

Boilermakers branch 6182 

Central region 6171,6209,6210 

Machinists branch, industrial section 6175 

Negro commission 6176 

North King Countv region 6131. 

6148, 6160, 6176, 6177, 6180, 6209, 6210, 6217, 6218, 6222, 6232 

South King County region 6150, 6158-6155. 

6160-6165, 6170, 6171, 6173, 6175, 6176, 6209, 6210, 6214 

Aircraft club 6162 

Duwamish Bend section- 6161, 6164, 6166. 6173, 6176, 6209, 6219 

West Seattle area 6166, 6170, 6171 

Welders' branch 6182. 6219 

Women's commission 6231 

Negro commission 6139, 6141, 6142, 6209 

Negro and national groups commission 6201 

North Seattle area 6191 

North Seattle-Ballard club 6178 

Port Angeles area 6180 

Railroad branch 6183, 6218 

Raymond-Abei'deen area 6190 

Renton club 6164 

Seattle 6192, 6219, 6231 

Central region 6149, 6171, 6172 

Central region, downtown branch^. 6168, 6169, 6171, 6172, 6176, 6217 

Central region, industrial section 6173. 6182 

Georgetown club 6165, 6166 

Holly Park branch 6219 

Interbay club 617(5 

Jackson Street club 6220 

Kennydale club 6164 

Longshoremen's branch 6149, 6179 

Northwest region 6139, 6170, 6180, 6189, 6209. 6219. <)220 

Queen Anne section 6178 

Rainier Valley section 6165, 6209, 6217 

Rainier Vista branch 6153,6165 

35th district section 6176 

37th district branch 6172, 6174, 6176, 6217, 6218 

Waterfront section 6141, 

(5149, 6150, 6160, 6178, 6179, 6185, 6213, 6217 

Yesler Terrace branch 6176 

Sedro-Woolley section 6158, 6189 

South Park Club 6164 

Southwest Washington region 6149,6181,6209 

Spokane (J154, 

6163, 6178, 6181-6185, 61J)0, 6192, 6206, 6208, 6213, 6218-6220 

Downtown Club 6185 

Inland Empire Council 6182,6184 

Professioiuil «-lub 6154, 61S3 

Railroad branch 6220 



INDEX ix 

Communist Party — Continued 

Washington State — Continued 

Spokane— Continued P&ge 

Section bureau (committee) 6181,6184,6192,6208 

Tacoma section 6146, 6181, 6182 

Tacoma Negro Commission 6142 

Vancouver 6209 

West Seattle section 6170,6171,6217-6219 

West Seattle, Alki Club 6166,6170 

White Center section 6209,6219 

Congress of American Women 6231 

Congress of Industrial Organizations 6185,6190,6191 

Farmer-Labor Party 6199 

Federal Bureau of Investigation 6128, 

6142, 6147, 6152, 6193, 6199, 6226, 6229, 6230 

Free Press Publishing Co., New York 6131 

Friends of the Soviet Union 6226 

Harvard University 6214 

Health, Welfare, and Education Department 6154 

Independent Party 6216 

Independent Progressive Party 6171,6180,6215,6216 

International Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union 6141 

International Woodworkers of America 6180,6181,6185,6186,6189-6191 

Interrracial Actidn Committee 6201,62)02 

^Machinists Union, local 79 6173 

Marine Cooks and Stewards 6141 

Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers Union, Idaho 6183 

National Maritime Union 6220 

Pacific Car & Foundry 6232 

Pacific Northwest Labor School {see also Seattle Labor School) 6177, 6210 

Parent-Teacher Association . 6215 

Progressive Citizens of America .' 6215,6219 

Railway Women's Auxiliary 6187 

Second Socialist International 6202, 6229 

Shipscalers Union 6201 

Stockholm peace pledge 6225, 6231 

Teachers Union 6214 

Unemployed councils 0184, 6205, 6206 

United Electrial, Radio and Machine Workers of America 6212 

United States Civil Service Commission 6155,6156 

United States Department of Justice 6155 

Washington Commonwealth Federation 6128 

Washington Pension Union 6170, 6171, 6181, 6214 

Washington State Legislature 6135,6172,6173 

Workers Alliance 6184, 6205, 6206 

Workers Book Store 6180,6219 

Publications 

Dailv Peoples World 6141, 6144, 6172, 6177, 0194, 6197.6209, 6212, 6214 

Daily Worker 6131, 6167, 6184, 6203, 6211, 6223 

New World 6128, 6201 

Political Affairs 6141, 6208 

Saturday Evening Post 6184 

Voice of Action 6220 

Washington New Dealer 6172, 6214 

o 



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