(navigation image)
Home American Libraries | Canadian Libraries | Universal Library | Community Texts | Project Gutenberg | Biodiversity Heritage Library | Children's Library | Additional Collections
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload
See other formats

Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the Los Angeles, Calif., area. Hearings"

HARVARD COLLEGE 
LIBRARY 




GIFT OF THE 

GOVERNMENT 
OF THE UNITED STATES 



/;r Jd^ A.! 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA— Part 3 



HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMEMCAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-FOUKTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



JUNE 30, liins 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
(INDEX IN PART 4 OF THIS SERIES) 




HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY 

DEPOSITED BY THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

001311955 



UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
65500 WASHINGTON : 1955 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Repeesentatives 

FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois 

CLYDE DOYLE, California BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York 

JAMES B. FRAZIER, JE., Tennessee DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio 

Thomas W. Bbalb, Sr., Chief Clerk 
n 



CONTENTS 



Part 1 

June 27, 1955: Testimony of— Pae» 

Paul Wright Orr 1440 

Afternoon session: 

Andries Deinum 1474 

Anita Bell Schneider 1498 

June 28, 1955: Tcstimonv of— 

Angela Clarke 1523 

Cecil Beard 1538 

Diamond Kim 1543 

Afternoon session: 

Diamond Kim (resumed) 1565 

Sue Lav son 1572 

George Hugh Murray Maitland Hardyman 1575 

Part 2 
June 29, 1955: Testimony of— 

George Hugh Murray Maitland Hardyman (resumed) 1599 

Raphael Konigsberg 1656 

Afternoon session: 

Sylvia Schonfield 1668 

Jean Wilkinson 1676 

Frank C. Davis •_ 1679 

Irene B. Bowerman 1689 

Carl Sugar 1697 

Part 3 
June 30, 1955: Testimony of— 

Matthew Samuel Vidaver, Jr 1707 

William Elconin 1713 

William Waid Kimple 1731 

Afternoon session: 

William Ward Kimple (resumed) 1742 

Max Benjamin Natapoff 1761 

Tashia Freed 1764 

Max Appleman 1768 

Joseph W. Aidlin 1771 

Part 4 
July 1, 1955: Testimony of— 

Steplien A. Wereb 1779 

Afternoon session: 

Stephen A. Wereb (resumed) 1811 

James Burford 1827 

Anne Pollock 1837 

Margaret Vaughn Meyer 1844 

July 2, 1955: Testimony of— 

Stephen A. Wereb (resumed) 1851 

John Waters Houston 1860 

Harrv Hay 1872 

Martha Hard Wheeldin 1875 

Louis Stark 1882 

Robert L. Brock 1889 

Index. ( See pt. 4 of this series. ) 

III 



p 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides :. 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assemMed, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Couiuiittee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEE 

******* 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American Activities. 

(2) Tlie Committee on Un-American Activities, as a wliole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make froin time to time investigations of (i) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign C(mntries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in 
any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee of Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcoumiittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has ad.lourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 84th CONGRESS 

House Resolution 5, January 5, 1955 

• ♦«•*•♦ 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 
the following standing committees : 

• ***•♦♦ 
(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

• * * * « . * • 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American Activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (ill) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such inves- 
tigation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance of 
such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA— PART 3 



THTTRSDAY, JUNE 30, 1955 

United States House of Repeesentatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Los Angeles^ California. 

PUBLIC hearing 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met 
at 9 : 30 a. m., pursuant to recess, in room 518, Federal Building, Los 
Angeles, Calif., Hon. Clyde Doyle (chairman of the subcommittee) 
presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Clyde Doyle (chair- 
man) ; Morgan M. Moulder, Donald L. Jackson, and Gordon H. 
Scherer. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, counsel, and William A. 
Wheeler, investigator. 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will please be in session. 

May the record show, please, that the full membership of the sub- 
committee is here, Congressman Scherer on my left, of Ohio ; Congress- 
man Jackson on my left, of California; Congressman Moulder, from 
Missouri ; and Congressman Doyle, from California. 

There are times when there is confusion of names and identity, and 
here is a good illustration of one of the circumstances that comes to 
the committee from time to time, and we are always glad to cooperate 
promptly and try to see that any person who should not be identified 
in any way with the Communist conspiracy or with the call of the 
committee as a witness, is cleared as promptly as possible. 

Our distinguished counsel has mentioned from time to time in the 
last 2 days Peter Hyun, without including any middle initial in the 
name. 

I received this morning, in fact, every member of the committee re- 
ceived the same wire, and we want to cooperate with this gentleman 
and read it into the record, and so that the newspapers will hear it, too. 

Representative Clyde Doyle, 

Chairman, House Un-American Activities Subcommittee, 
Federal Building, Los Angeles. 
Great harm to me, permanent and irreparable damage to the company, Jan-u- 
ine Foods, of which I am president, is being done through the publicity given to 
a Peter Hyun now under investigation by your committee. This Peter Hyun was 
no relation to me, not in any way connected with me, my family, or my company. 
Many of my customers and friends are confusing identity with me. In the name 
of justice may I respectfully request that you use every effort to inform each 

1705 



1706 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

member of your committee, the press, and the public, that I, Peter S. Hyun, Sr., 
am not the Peter Hyun under investigation by your committee. 

If I can be of any .service to you and your committee in the great work you are 
doing, please feel free to call upon me at my office or my home. 

(Signed) Peteb S. Hyun, Sr., 

President, Oriental Foods, Inc. 

I am glad to read that, and I might say to the gentleman if he wants 
to further emphasize the fact that there is no identity in which he is 
involved, we invite him to come up here and appear in person if he 
desires to, and just so state, but I think this reading should be sufficient. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, possibly I should state in addition 
that the staff knows very well that this is not the same Peter Hyun as 
to whom we heard testimony in the past few days. 

Mr, Doyle. In other words, Peter S. Hyun, Sr., president of Orien- 
tal Foods Co., Inc., is not the Peter Hyun we are interested in 
locating. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Scherer, Mr. Counsel, prior to the receipt of this telegram, you 
did not know there was a Peter S. Hyun who was president of the 
Oriental Foods Co., did you ? 

Mr. Tavenner. We knew there was a Peter S. Hyun who was an 
entirely different person from the Peter Hyun who is involved in the 
testimony. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you ready, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. May I say to the guests in the courtroom again this 
morning, Ave appreciated your cooperation very much yesterday. The 
courtroom is ordinarily full of people, and it is not altogether com- 
fortable sometimes in the day when the circulation is not too good, 
so we will appreciate your continued cooperation with us, and please 
make no outburst or demonstration of any sort, either of approbation 
or otherwise, as to what any witness says or does. I mean that as an 
impartial instruction. We cannot countenance any disapproval or 
any approval by hand clapping or by laughter or by any evidence for 
or against what any witness says. 

Before I proceed again in the matter, I want to say to counsel if 
there are any different counsel in the room who have not yet appeared 
with a client before the committee, the advice of counsel before the 
committee, of a client, is limited to the counsel advising his client. We 
regret that we do not have time or facilities to allow members of the 
bar to argue with us or to us, but we simply do not ; and therefore we 
know we will have the cooperation of every lawyer who appears be- 
fore us today. 

Are you ready, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matthew Vidaver, will you come forward, please, sir? 

Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Vidaver. I do. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. Be seated, please. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1707 

TESTIMONY OF MATTHEW SAMUEL VIDAVER, JR., ACCOMPANIED 
BY COUNSEL, BEN MARGOLIS 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. ViDAVER. My full name is Matthew Samuel Vidaver, Jr. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you known by a nickname ? 

Mr. ViDA\^R. Ususally by the name of Matt. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. It is noted you are accompanied by counsel. Will 
counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Margolis. Ben Margolis. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Vidaver? 

Mr. Vidaver. San Francisco, Calif., August 4, 1913. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name, please ? 

Mr. Vidaver. V-i-d-a-v-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time resided in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Vidaver. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the period of 
your residence in Los Angeles? 

Mr. Vidaver. I first came to Los Angeles in 1919. I think we stayed 
here for a year or a year and a half. 

I returned to Los Angeles, I was about 13 years old, 14. That would 
be after the depression started, so it would be about 1929, and remained 
in Los Angeles fairly consistently — I lived in other places for short 
periods of time, Santa Monica, whicli is an independent community, 
and San Diego, San Francisco, but mainly in the Los Angeles-southern 
California area, up until 1948, I believe. Also, some time was spent 
overseas during the war. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the period when you were overseas, 
or, better still, will you tell the committee, please, when you entered 
the armed services and when you left? 

Mr. Vidaver. I was in the merchant marine during the war. I 
believe it was possibly the last part of 1943 through the first part of 
1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. During this period between 1929 and 1948 when 
you lived in Los Angeles, with the exceptions you mentioned, I believe 
you said you lived at Santa Monica for a period. 

Mr. Vidaver. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was that period of time? 

Mr. Vidaver. It is very hard to say. I lived in Santa Monica Can- 
yon, and I am not sure but I think that is specifically a part of the 
city of Los Angeles, although everyone considers it Santa Monica, 
uses the Santa Monica shopping district, and so forth. I lived there — 
my son was born there — on and off, I guess for a period of 11 or 12 
years; and then resided in Santa Monica and Ocean Park, I imagine 
altogether a period of maybe a year or two. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Will you tell the committee, please, when you lived 
in San Diego ? 

Mr. VIDA^'ER. That was, I believe, in the year 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you there ? 

Mr. Vidaver. Approximately a year, maybe a little over a year. 
, Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Vidaver, the committee has not heretofore made 
any extended investigation of Communist Party activities in Santa 
Monica. It desires at this time to learn what it can of Communist 
Party activities in that area, 

65500 — 55— pt. 3 2 



1708 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

At the time you lived in Santa Monica, the period of 11 or 12 years, 
or any part of that time, were you an organizer of the Communist 
Party in that area? 

Mr. ViDAVER. Before I answer that question, Mr. Tavenner, I would 
like to ask the Chair for some clarification. I don't mean to make 
a statement. I am very serious about this. 

It is my understanding- that a citizen of the United States has the 
right to use the provisions provided in the Constitution and the Bill 
of Eights in a situation such as this, and that in doing so he in no way 
implicates himself in any question of guilt, and that not only has he the 
right but that he has the duty, when he considers that his constitutional 
privileges are being trespassed upon, when he considers that his right 
to his own political opinions is being invaded. Is this not so, Mr. 
Chairman ? 

Mr. Doyle. I will answer the gentleman by just saying this, briefly : 
The committee feels that the witness is entitled, of course, and should 
rely upon the legal advice of his counsel in answering any legal ques- 
tion. We are in no position to undertake, even if we thought we might 
know the answer legally, to give you any legal advice. But we will 
say this frankly : This committee greatly respects a witness who takes 
the chair where you are, and conscientiously and in good faith and 
honestly claims the constitutional privilege. We do not criticize, ever, 
any witness who does that honestly and in good faith. 

Mr. VmA^^ER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. But we also shudder at the frequency with which wit- 
nesses take the first and fifth amendments and constitutional privileges 
in bad faith and without any intention of being honest with the Con- 
stitution of the United States. 

Mr. ViDAVER. Is not the propriety of that step to be determined by 
the judiciary and not by the legislative branch of the Government? 

Mr. Jackson. Regular order. 

Mr. Doyle. We will proceed now. I have answered your point, 
and I think you have gotten your point across, have you not ? 

Mr. VroAVER. Thank you. I understand. 

Mr. Doyle. What is your answer to the question ? 

Mr. ViDAVER. What is the question again ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Read the question. 

Mr. Jackson. I can save some time. Was the witness an organizer 
of the Communist Party in Santa Monica at any time. 

Mr. ViDAVER. Are you asking the question ? 

Mr. Jackson. I was restating it in order to save some time in going 
back to the record. 

Is that the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ViDAVER. I wish to assert my constitutional privilege, and I 
refuse to answer that question based upon the first and fifth amend- 
ments. 

Mr. Doyle. Very well. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is now in the process of conducting 
an investigation in San Diego, where hearings are to be held next 
week. When you were in San Diego for the year 1942, what was the 
occasion for your moving to that area ? 

Mr. ViDAVER. I consider this an improper question. I refuse to 
answer it on the same basis. 



COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1709"' 

Mr. Tavenner. Were vou an organizer of the Communist Party in 
San Diego in 1942? 

Mr. ViDA^rER. I am going to refuse to answer all questions about my 
political activity, my political thinking. This is my private opinion, 
my actions, and I base my declination to reply to this question on the 
first and fifth amendments to the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Max Silver testified before a subcommittee of 
this committee on January 23, 1952. He attempted to give the com- 
mittee information regarding the organizational setup of the Com- 
munist Party in Los Angeles County during the period that he was 
its organizational secretary. 

I asked him this question : 

Now let us proceed with your discussion of the IRth Congressional District. 
On page 53 of exhibit 1 I find reference to the 61st Assembly District of the 
IGth Congressional District. Is that one of the groups in the 16th District? 

Mr. SiLATCR. That is right. That is what is known as the West Adams group, 
a large active branch. 

Question : 

Do you recall the name of the organizer of that district? 

Parenthetically, I should say we are discussing there the Communist 

Party. 

Mr. SrLVER. Well, there were various, unless you ask me for a specific one. 
Matt Vidaver was the organizer of the 16th Congressional District for a time, 
and later went to San Diego to become the section organizer out there. 

Mr. Silver also testified that you were at one time a member of the 
county committee of the Communist Party. 

Will you tell the committee, please, whether the statement of Mr. 
Silver was in error in any respect insofar as it related to you? 

Mr. Vidaver. Mr. Chairman, I have already stated that I am not 
going to answer any questions in this area based upon my constitu- 
tional rights, and I understand the Chair is very anxious to expedite 
matters at this hearing. Mr. Tavenner knows that I am not going to 
answer any such questions. What is his purpose in asking the 
question at this time? 

Mr. ScHERER. To get it in the record, show who you are and what 
you are. 

Mr. Doyle. You can exercise your constitutional privilege if that 
is what you feel you can honestly do. 

I might state that we understand your position, so there is no need 
of your making any more preliminary remarks. 

Mr. Vidaver. Isn't this already in the record? Aren't you reading 
from the record, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. DoYi^E. Will you answer the question, please, or stand on your 
privilege. Do you refuse to answer? If so, on what grounds? 

Mr. Vidaver. You have the statements of a paid — an informer, 
anyway, I don't know if he was paid or not, and I don't wish to 
dignify this person, who for some reason of his own wants to become 
an informer, with an answer. 

Mr. ScHERER. All right, now. As an informer, did he lie about 
you? 

(Tlie witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Vidaver. I read a book by Harvey Matusow which is pretty 
indicative of the situation informers find themselves in today. 



1710 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. ScHERER. You have an opportunity- 



Mr. ViDAVER. He asked me a question. I am elaborating on the 
question. 

Mr. Jackson, Will 3^ou please answer the question. 

Mr. ScHERER. Let me finish. 

Mr. Jackson. There is a question pending. 

Mr. ScHERER. I asked him a question. I ask that you direct the 
witness to answer the question whether this man, whom he attacks as 
an informer, lied about him. He has an opportunity right here and 
now to say whether this man told the truth or whether he lied. I 
want to see him take advantage of that opportunity. 

Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer it, Mr. Witness, one way or 
another. 

Mr. Vidaver. Mr. Chairman, at the beginning I asked you on a 
question of clarification about utilizing constitutional privilege, and 
you stated that, if I get you correctly 

Mr. Doyle. Go ahead. You heard my answer. We understand 
your position. You are as anxious to save your time as we are to 

Mr. Vidaver. I am. But I want the situation to be cleared. 

Mr. Doyle. It is as clear as crystal, and you know it is. Now don't 
be facetious about it, please. 

Mr. Vidaver. I am not here to conceal anything. 

Mr. Doyle. Why do you not answer honestly ? 

Mr. Vidaver. Because I believe by utilizing these constitutional 
privileges, I help to expose something. 

Mr. Jackson. Will the witness please use them, and let us get along. 
All that is necessary is to decline to answer. The witness knows that. 
All the committee is asking you to do, is to answer or decline to answer. 

Mr. Vidaver. What question is this ? 

Mr. Doyle. The question is Mr. Scherer's question. 

Mr. ScHERER. We have asked him. He has been directed. If he 
does not want to answer, let the record stand. 

Mr. Vidaver. What is the question again ? 

Mr. ScHERER. The question was whether this man who you call an 
informer, who you attack, lied about you. You have the opportunity 
to now say whether he lied. Did he lie in anything he said about you ? 

Mr. Vidaver. Mr. Scherer, you know very well the situation that 
exists today. 

Mr. Scherer. I know it very well. 

Mr. ViDA\^R. On this basis, I am going to decline to honor this ques- 
tion with an answer based upon my constitutional rights of the first 
and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Doyle. So that the record will be clear in connection with Mr. 
Max Silver, whose testimonv Mr. Tavenner read, Mr. Max Silver 
was one of the top, leading Communist functionaries in Lfos Angeles 
County for several years, not paid by this committee a nickel, but he 
got his belly full of the Communist conspiracy and came forward and 
w trying to make up for some of the damage he did when he was a 
Communist leader. 

I fust want the record to show he is not a paid informer, but he is 
an American citizen who got his belly full of the rottenness and gar- 
bage of the Communist conspiracy. 

Mr. Vidaver. I said I did not know whether he was paid or not. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1711 

Mr. Doyle. I want the record to show he was not. He is not in a 
class with Matusow. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Vidaver, I take it from your testimony you are 
unwilling to give the committee any facts that may be within your 
knowledge regarding Communist Party activities in Santa Monica or 
in San Diego. 

( The witness conferred w^ith his counsel. ) 

Mr. Vidaver. I understand. I am glad that fact has penetrated Mr. 
Tavenner. Maybe it will help to shorten this thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

I hand you two documents, photostatic copies of affidavit of registra- 
tion, and will ask you to examine both of them. 

(Documents handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the signature, the name of Mat- 
tliew Vidaver on both the documents, and state whether or not they 
are your signatures ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Vidaver. Mr. Chairman, I would like to withdraw my previous 
remark. Apparently it didn't penetrate. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer ? 

Mr. Jackson. Is that the answer to the question ? 

Mr. Vidaver. Isn't it satisfactory ? 

Mr. Jackson. If it is satisfactory to you, it is satisfactory to me. 

Mr. Vidaver. If it is satisfactory to the committee, that is the 
answer. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Vidaver. Mr. Jackson said it was satisfactory. 

Mr. Jackson. Evidently it is not satisfactory to the rest, and on 
second thought, in light of the Supreme Court decision, it is not satis- 
factory to me, and I join in requesting the direction. 

Mr. Doyle. We do not accept that as a sufficient answer, and I direct 
you to answer the question. 

Mr. Vidaver. I refuse to answer tliis question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what the docu- 
ments are, if you know ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Vidaver. I think the documents speak for themselves., Mr. 
Tavenner. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Doyle. I do so direct you, Mr. Witness. 

Mr. Vidaver. I refuse to answer, based upon reasons previously 
stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the documents in evidence, and ask 
that they be marked "Vidaver Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2," respectively, for 
identification only. 

Mr. Doyle. So received and so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, the first document is a document 
signed by the name Matthew S. Vidaver, sworn to on September 24, 
1936. It is an affidavit of registration in which paragraph 9 states : 

I intend to affiliate at the ensuing primary election with the Communist Party. 



1712 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

The document, Vidaver Exhibit No. 2, bears a signed name of Mat- ; 
thew S. Vidaver, and is sworn to on the 27th day of September 1938 and 
states the same as the previous document in item 9, namely : 

I intend to aflaiiate at the ensuing primary election with the Communist Party. 

I hand the witness a pamphlet compiled and published by the secre- 
tary of state of the State of California for the year 1942, entitled 
"Members of Democratic, Kepublican, Townsend, Prohibition, and 
Communist State Central Committees." 

Will you examine pages 31 and 32 of that document, please. 

(Document handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Tavenner. After examining page 31, will you state whether or 
not the caption shows ■ 

Mr. Margolis. We have not completed examining it, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand. I am asking the question. 

Mr. Margolis. Do you mind waiting until he finishes? 

Mr. Tavenner. I want him to have it in mind while he considers it. 

Mr. Margolis. We can't do 2 things at 1 time. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Will you show the witness the document ? 

Mr. Margolis. We will do one thing at a time. We will listen to 
the question or we will look at it, not try to do both. 

Mr. DoYLE. Mr. Margolis, you are not in a courtroom. Can't you 
courteously comply with counsel's question to facilitate his asking 
the question ? 

Mr. Margolis. Does he want us to read and listen at the same time? 

Mr. Doyle. He is not asking you the question. He is talking to 
your client. 

Mr. Jackson. I understand all counsel asked is that the document 
be handed to the witness. 

Mr. Margolis. I will hold it while we look at it. I don't know what 
the fuss is about. . 

Mr, Tavenner. You put the document where the witness couldn t 
see it when I wanted him to look at it. Plold it where he can see it, 
and it is perfectly satisfactory. 

Mr. Margolis. Is this satisfactory ? 

Mr. Tavenner. It is if vour client is looking at it. 

With page 31 of the docum.ent before you, do you see at the top 
a caption stating "Members of the Central Committee of the Com- 
munist Party" ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Vidaver. I think this document speaks for itself, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques- 
tion, Mr. Chairman. . ai • 4. 
Mr. DoYLE. We do not accept your answer, witness, as suthcient, 
and I direct you to answer that question. 
(The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Vidaver. I refuse to answer this question based upon reasons 
previously stated. . . 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you want any further time to examine the 

document ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. A^idaver, will you now look at page 32, the last 
page of the document, and state whether or not you see in alphabetical 
order a list of names ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1713 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you ? 

Mr. ViDAVER. I have already refused to answer any questions simi- 
lar to this or based upon this document. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques- 
tion, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. We do not accept your answer as sufficient, and I direct 
you to answer. You have looked at the page. 

Mr. ViDAVER. I refuse to answer based upon reasons previously 
stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you observe under the "V's" the name of 
Matthew Vidaver as a member of the Central Committee of the Com- 
munist Party for the year 1942 ? 

Mr. ViDAVER. I refuse to answer this question based upon reasons 
previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer in evidence the 
frontispiece of the document and pages 31 and 32, and ask that it be 
marked "Vidaver Exhibit No. 3" for identification only. 

Mr. Doyle. It may be received and so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. DoYr.E. Mr. Moulder ? 

Mr. Moulder. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have one more. 

Are you a member of the Communist Party now ? 

Mr, ViDAVER. Evidently it didn't penetrate. 

Mr. Doyle. What is your anwer, please? 

Mr. ViDAVER. I refuse to answer this question based u]3on reasons 
previously stated. 

Mr. Jackson. That penetrated. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. SciiERER. I have no questions. 

Mr. Doyle. You are excused, Witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. William Elconin. 

Mr. Doyle. Please raise your hand and be sworn. 

Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Elconin. I do. 

Mr. Doyle. Please be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM ELCONIN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

DAVID SCRISNER 

Mr, Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Elconin. My name is William Elconin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name, please ? 

Mr, Elconin, E-1-c-o-n-i-n. 

Mr, Tavenner, It is noted you are accompanied by counsel. Will 
counsel please identify himself for tlie record ? 

Mr, ScRiBNER. David Scribner, S-c-r-i-b-n-e-r, 11 East 51st Street, 
New York City. 

Mr. Ta\'ENNEr. Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Elconin ? 

Mr. Elconin. I was born December 19, 1914, in the city of Cleve- 
land, Ohio. 



1714 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, briefly what 
your formal educational training has been ? 

Mr. Elconin. Yes. I came to the city of Los Angeles at the age of 
4; went to elementary school and junior and high school in the Los 
Angeles city school system ; proceeded then to California Institute of 
Technology, and graduated in 1936 or 1937 with a bachelor of science 
degree in electrical engineering. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
record of employment has been since 1940 ^ 

Mr. Elconin. I have been an employee of the United Electrical, 
Radio and Machine Workers of America as a field organizer up until, 
I forget just when, 4 or 5 years ago, when I became international rep- 
resentative of that union. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I interrupt ? When did you first become a field 
organizer 'i 

Mr, Elconin. In 1940. I don't know the exact month. I think it 
was in March. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a field organizer until about 5 years ago? 

Mr. Elconin. Well, I continued continuously in employment. I 
simply was promoted, so to speak. 

Mr. Tavenner. I did not understand you. 

Mr. Elconin. I have always been in employment with this union 
from that time until now except for the time I spent in the service, 
but the title of my position changed from field organizer at one stage 
to international representative now. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us when it changed ? 

Mr. Elconin. I can't remember the exact date. I think I men- 
tioned it was 4 or 5 years ago, but I am not exactly certain. 

Mr. Tavenner. That would be in 1950 or 1951, then ? 

Mr. Elconin. I told you I am not certain. I just don't know, I 
can check my paychecks if you say. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is sufficiently accurate. 

I understand you to say you were field organizer continuously 
from about 1940 up until you were promoted to the position of inter- 
national representative, with the exception of the time you were in 
the military service. 

Mr. Elconin. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the period of time that you were in the 
military service ? 

Mr. Elconin. I was in the military service approximately 3 years 
and 3 or 4 months. Do you want the dates ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, I w^ould like to know when you entered the 
service. 

Mr. Elconin. I entered the service the first time, I think, in June 
of 1942-, and was an officer as a second lieutenant; and then I was 
relieved from active duty in, I believe, December of the same year; 
returned to the service in October of 1943 and continued then until 
March of 1946 when I was honorably discharged as a first lieutenant, 

Mr. Tavenner, You say you were relieved from active duty in 
December 1942. Weren't you discharged as well as being relieved ? 

Mr. Elconin. No, I received no such papers of discharge. I 
simply received orders to be relieved from active duty, 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you not separated from the service on De- 
cember 13, 1942 ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1715 

Mr. Elconin. Well, I was told I was relieved from duty, relieved 
from active duty, and I was told I could sit the rest of the war out 
if I chose to, but I didn't. I don't know whether that means sepa- 
rated from the service or not. I didn't receive any official document 
that I can recall, indicating any kind of separation other than the 
order saying relieved from active duty. That is the best of my recol- 
lection. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the reason for the action taken by the 
Government in relieving you from active service or giving you a dis- 
charge, whichever may have been the fact ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Elcoxin. I think I would like to tell you this in some detail. 
It won't take too long. 

I was relieved from duty, as you say, December 13 — I am not ques- 
tioning the day ; I said it was in December. I am not sure of the time — 
and no explanation was given to me at that time, none whatsoever. 
As a matter of fact, I recall inquiring of the adjutant on the given 
post, I think it was at Fort Monmouth, what the reason was, and he 
said he didn't know. He said he thought it was a matter of mistaken 
identity or something. 

Thereafter, when the orders were confirmed, I checked with him 
again, and he said he did not know and would seek to find out. He 
was unable, apparently, to do so, but he never communicated with me 
again. 

I went to New York — Monmouth is very close to New York — and 
took this matter up with my union, and we took it up in turn through 
our Washington legislative representative with the War Department, 
and the War Department communicated with our Washington office, 
indicating that they were separating me from the service because I 
had supposedly been a. w. o. 1. — absent without leave — on a given date, 
and I can't recall the date. The facts, however, were, I wasn't 
a. w. o. 1., as they later admitted in another communication that I was, 
at the time they claimed I was a. w. o. 1., I was actually in conference 
with the lieutenant colonel who was responsible for this corps area, 
clearing up a false accusation made against me by a member of a com- 
pany union. At least, as far as I know he was a member of a com- 
pany union or a management representative of a given company. The 
company's name was Cannon Electric Co. 

We were engaged, before I went into the service, in organizing that 
plant. I was active in that campaign, and went directly from there 
into the service. At the beginning of my service, I was over at Cal 
Tech for a refresher course in electronics of various types, and word 
came to me through my friends in the union where they were continu- 
ing their organizational activity at that plant, that 4 or 5 people were 
being discharged by the company for union activities, and that the 
union was 

Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. That goes out of the area, I think, of 
your own individual case. 

Mr. Elconin". I told you what they told me. 

Mr. Doyle. This is no place for you to make a tirade against any 
union or against any company. We are asking for your military 
record. 

65500— 55— pt. 3 3 



1716 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Elconin. It so happens these false accusations- 



Mr. Doyle. We are interested in your military record. 

Mr. Elconin. I am trying to give it to you, but I think I have a right 
to explain my reason for separation from the service. 

Mr. Doyle. We are interested in your own military record; not a 
question of controversy between you and the union or employer. 

Mr. ElconijST. I want to explain. 

Mr. Doyle. We will give you an opportunity to explain your own 
military record. 

Mr, Elconin. This has to do with that, very much. 

Mr. Doyle. There is a good deal of hearsay, and you ought to know 
what your own military record is. 

Mr. Elconin. I am talking of my military record the best I can 
recall it. 

Mr. Doyle. Don't go into the area of your union troubles. 

Mr. Elconin. It so happens because I was an officer in the service 
I went to this given plant to prevent a strike, because this was a plant 
producing defense parts ; and instead of the authorities being informed 
I was there to prevent a strike, somebody maliciously told them I was 
there to incite a strike, and as a result of the investigation being con- 
ducted around me and when I was conferring witli the lieutenant 
colonel, whose name I can't recall, of this area, they cleared it up and 
found out it was completely wrong, that the charge was false; and 
because of that reason I arrived in Fort Monmouth 1 day later than 
the order originally called for my getting there. 

This information came out in the course of our investigation, or 
rather, our discussion of the matter with the War Department, and it 
has all been confirmed in writing. 

That was the reason we finally found out for my separation from 
active duty. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you have confirmation in writing? 

Mr. Elconin. I don't have it here. 

Mr. Doyle. Where is it? 

Mr. Elconin. I have it at home. 

Mr. Doyle. Why did you not bring it? 

Mr. Elconin. You didn't tell me what I was to be questioned about. 
I had no knowledge what you were going to talk to me about at all. 

(Representative Jackson left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Doyle. Go ahead. 

Mr. Elconin. I want to make clear one last point on the military 
service. When I went back into the service, it was with the under- 
standing from the War Department, I also have in writing, signed by 
a brigadier general of the Under Secretary of War's office, there would 
be no further discrimination against me or prevention of my activities 
in the service as far as promotion was concerned. I rewon my com- 
mission, and I came out as a first lieutenant. 

Those were the facts, and that is the situation. I gave you the dates. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was any question of Communist Party activities 
on your ]3art involved in your discharge from the United States Army 
on December 13, 1942? 

(The w^itness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Elconin. That question was never mentioned to me by anybody 
at any time I was in the service, and I tried on more occasions than 
one to find out what it was that was in any way interfering with my 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1717 

activities in the service as far as my being an officer was concerned, and 
I was never able to get anyone to tell me anything. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at 
that time? 

Mr. Elconix. I want to refuse to answer that question, very natu- 
rally. I think you know I am employed by the United Electrical 
Workers. I have already made that clear. I think you know that our 
union was just involved in the recently historic case of Emspak and 
Quimi which the Supreme Court ruled on May 23. Sitting with me is 
the distinguished counsel of our union who won that case, and this 
committee was involved in attacking our union in that case. 

Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. Answer the question, please. 

Mr. Elconin. I am about to tell you why I am going to refuse to an- 
swer that question. 

Mr. Doyle. You are entitled to plead your constitutional privilege. 
You are fully advised by your legal counsel you know^, and we do not 
have the time for you to make a record here for the purpose of your 
own publications. 

Mr. Elconin. You do have time to make records smearing people's 
names. I should have a right to explain why I refuse to answer this 
question. If you want to ask the question. I will answer it in my way. 

Mr. Doyle. We will not have time for you to entirely answer it in 
your own way, you might as well understand it. 

Mr. Elconin, If you are willing to withdraw the question 

Mr. Doyle. We are not willing. 

Mr. Elconin. Then I will answer it my own way. 

Mr. Doyle. You will not have time to write a book before this com- 
mittee. Please continue. 

Mr. Elconin. If you wish to ask questions and answer them, both, 
ask yourself the questions. If you want me to answer the questions, 
give me a chance. 

Mr. Doyle. We are going to have you observe the rules of the com- 
mittee the same as every other witness is required to. 

Mr. Elconin. I am familiar with the fact there are rules of the com- 
mittee, and I don't know what they are. If you ask me questions, I 
understand I am entitled to answer them my own way. I am trying to 
explain why I will refuse to answer this and similar such questions 
before this committee. I would like to make a request, if I may 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques- 
tion without further speech. 

Mr. Doyle. I so direct you. 

Mr. Elconin. May I ask you one question first ? 

Mr. Scherer. No. 

Mr. Doyle. You are being asked a question by our counsel. 

Mr. Elconin. I realize that, but I am trying to explain that this case 
which our union was just involved in specifically recites and directs 
itself to this type of question. 

Mr. Doyle. We are familiar with that case. 

Mr. Elconin. I wish you would practice some of the decisions in- 
volved in that case. 

Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. You are not going to make a mockery 
out of this committee although you are trying to. We understand your 
methods and your reasons for using them. If there are any more out- 



1718 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

bursts from anyone in the room, we will clear the courtroom, and if 5 
or 6 of you people want to be responsible for everybody being put out 
of the courtroom, then continue that sort of outburst. That is fair. 
That is my statement. If 5 or 6 of you want to be selfish enough to 
make everyone lose out on the information from sitting in the court- 
room, then you do that again ; and if we can identify the 5 or 6, the 5 
or 6 will be put out and not the rest. 

Mr. Elconin. Mr. Doyle, I would like to request that my counsel 
have an opportunity to explain where this particular decision bears 
on this type of investigation. 

Mr. Doyle. We are not a court. You know that and your counsel 
knows it. He has been before our committee before at Washington. 
He knows he is not allowed to address this committee, and so do you. 
Our time is not sufficient to permit legal counsel to argue with the 
committee. 

Mr. ScRiBNER. Since you are referring to me, do you mind if I speak 
for myself ? 

Mr. Doyle. No. You well know our rules do not permit it, and you 
know our rule is reasonable. 

Mr. ScRiBNER. I realize actually sitting here does not make me 
counsel for the witness, because I have no rights in that respect. 

Mr. Doyle. You have a right to address the committee through 
your witness, and you know it, and that is the only way we can permit. 
We are questioning your client, not you ; it is his answers and not 
yours which we are entitled to receive at this hearing. 

Mr. ScRiBNER. I appreciate that, having had that experience many 
times, and by sitting here I am participating in a fraud in that sense. 

Mr. Doyle. You came clear from New York to appear with this 
witness, and we want you to have that privilege, but you have been 
before us many times at Washington, and you know the rules of the 
committee and so does your client. It is not a fraud in any sense. 
Your use of that word is highly inappropriate. 

Mr. Scribner. Have they clianged in respect to cross-examination? 

Mr. Doyle. Just a minute — you again deliberately violate our rules. 

Mr. Scribner. This is a fair question, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. You know the rules of the committee. You have a 
copy of them. I assume you read them. 

Mr. Scribner. I know the rules up to the time the witness appeared, 
and I am asking a civil question as to whether or not there has been 
any change in the rules to permit my cross-examination of any wit- 
nesses. 

Mr. ScHERER. Counsel is in contempt. 

Mr. Doyle. That is right. Attorney Scribner, you are again deliber- 
ately violating a reasonable rule of this committee. 

Mr. Scherer. Contempt of this committee. 

Mr. Scribner. That is a complete absurdity, if I may be permitted 
to say. 

Mr. Doyle. You soon will be if you are not careful. If this were 
a court, you would not dare persist in violating the court rules. 

Mr. Scribner. I happen to be familiar with the rules and the law 
on this subject matter, and merely frightening counsel for a witness 
is not going to serve any particular purpose, I promise you. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct counsel to desist from further 
talking to this committee. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1719 

Mr. Elconin". I don't know whether that is fair, Mr. Scherer. He 
is my counsel, and I would like to have him sit right here with me 
where I can talk with him, not out in left field where I can wave hand 
signals at him. 

Mr. Doyle. You have now made a page of your book for publica- 
tion. Let us proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Elconin. I am not trying to make a book. That is the func- 
tion of the committee, to try to get all publicity. 

Mr. Doyle. Go ahead. 

Mr. Elconin. Since my counsel is prohibited from acting as counsel, 
I will have to act as my own. 

Mr. Doyle. He knows the rules of the committee, and so do you. 
Your statement that he has been prohibited from being your legal 
counsel is plainly false. He has, however, learned that he cannot 
continue to deliberately violate our rules. 

Mr. Elconin. You may call that counsel in your opinion, but it 
is not in mine. 

Mr. Doyle. We are not going to permit you to read a legal decision 
in this case. We know those court opinions and repeat them. Your 
counsel sits by you at all times. 

Mr. Elconin. I am going to state my grounds for refusing to answer 
that question, Mr. Chairman. I am going to stale them my way. 

Mr. Doyle. You are not going to take the time of the committee 
to read a legal decision with which we are already familiar. 

Mr. Elconin. Are you ashamed of the decision ? 

Mr. Doyle, Proud of it. 

Mr. Elconin. I am also proud of it, very much so. 

Mr. Scherer. I think we have had enough of this. 

Mr. Elconin. Maybe you do. I would like to state my grounds. 

Mr. Scherer. We have had enough of this. 

Mr. Elconin. I have several specific grounds for refusing to answer 
that question and that type of question. 

Mr. Doyle. Those grounds are your constitutional grounds, and 
you are entitled to plead those when you feel you can honestly do so. 
We respect honest use of constitutional grounds. 

Mr. Elconin. My understanding is I can use any grounds I think 
valid. You may judge them invalid later, but I may use them. 

I would like to refer, if I may, since I don't think I can state this 
any better than Governor Warren stated it in this decision 

Mr. Doyle. We are perfectly familiar with that. We have the 
decision and text right before us on our desk. Here are the copies of it. 

Mr. Elconin. I heard Mr. Moulder 

Mr. Doyle. You can refer to the decision, but I will not permit 
you to take time to read that long decision. 

Mr. Elconin. I don't intend to read that long decision. I heard 
Mr. Moulder make reference to this decision and the question of having 
to direct witnesses to answer with respect to the fifth amendment. 
There are other portions of this decision valid to this matter and 
explain why I refuse to answer this kind of question, and I would like 
to point them out one at a time, and they are very brief, and explain 
how they refer to my refusal to answer that. 

Mr. Scherer. Point of order. He has had ample time to comply 
with the chairman's ruling. He can invoke his constitutional privilege 



1720 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

if he wants to. He has not seen fit to do that. If he wants to make 
a speech and read a decision, I ask that we proceed and ask the next 
question. 

Mr. Elconin. You haven't permitted me to state my reasons yet. i 

would like to do that. 

Mr. Doyle. If you are going to state your constitutional reasons, 
do so, but I am not going to permit you to read that decision. You 
can refer to it if you want, but we have the decision right here m 
printed fonn. We are familiar with it. 

Mr. Elconin. I know, but I don't think the people are necessarily 
familiar with it. ^ n £ 

Mr. DoYLE. You are not here to make a speech for the benefat or 
this audience or for your publication. 

Mr. Elconin. I realize that. 

Mr. Doyle. You are here to answer decently and cooperatively the 
questions in a dignified, honest manner. 

Mr. Elconin. I am trying to, but you are not permitting me to. 

Itlr. Doyle. I will not permit you to write a book or make a record 
to suit your publication out of this hearing. Answer by giving your 
constitutional grounds if you honestly want to. 

Mr. ELcoNiisr. May I say that my first reason for refusing to answer 
that question is that the powers of this committee to investigate are 
subject to recognized limitations. 

Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. You are reading from the court deci- 
sion, and I said we are not going to permit you to do so. Now please 
desist, because we will not permit you to do so. Do you understand? 

Mr. Elconin. May I ask a question ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Elconin. All right. 

Mr. Doyle. Don't be reading the decision, however. 

Mr. Elconin. I am not going to answer 

Mr. Doyle. You are reading the court decision again. 

Mr. Elconin. I am not now. I glanced at it. 

Mr. Doyle. What is your question ? 

Mr. Elconin. My question is, this decision was made as a result of 
activities of this committee, and it directs the type of thing that this 
committee cannot do. 

Mr. Doyle. We are familiar with that. We have been informed 
by our legal counsel also. 

Mr. Elconin. It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, the best thing the 
committee could do is pack up and go home, as far as these deci- 
sions 

Mr. Doyle. You now have this for your publication. Now go 
ahead and answer the question, because you are not going to take 
much more time of this committee on this occasion, I can assure you 
of that. 

Mr. Elconin. It would appear to me, Mr. Chairman, you seem to 
be frightened by this language here. 

Mr. Doyle. You have something else for your publication. What 
else do you want to get in ? Our courts are a bulwark of freedom and 
justice. 

Mr. Elconin. Do you want to know what I want in the publication? 
I will be glad to tell you. 



•COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1721 

Mr. Doyle. I am directing you to answer Mr. Tavenner's question. 
It is a simple valid question. I hear you now admit you want to 
make a showing for your publication. 

Mr. Elconin. I said, Mr. Chairman, that I refuse to answer the 
question. It is not a simple question. 

Mr. DoYLE. Whether or not you were a member of the Communist 
Party while in the military uniform of the United States, is a 
very simple question. The Communist conspiracy is not friendly to 
the national security or defense of the United States, 

Mr. Elconin. You know what happens when people get accused. 
Tremendous damage done to reputations by all this sort of thing. 

Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. You have gone far enough in being 
unreasonable about answering reasonable questions. 

Mr. Elconin. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. And I mean that, sir. 

Mr. Elconin. I understand what you mean. 

Mr. Doyle. Then cooperate as an American citizen with the com- 
mittee by not making speeches for your publication. 

Mr. Elconin. If you treat me as one, I will cooperate as one. That 
is, I think, proper. 

Mr. Doyle. I will give you the opportunity to exercise your consti- 
tutional privilege, and we do not object to that at all where a witness 
thinks he is doing it honestly and fairly, but again I am telling it to 
you frankly, I am not going to permit you to monopolize the time of 
this committee in doing what you came here planning to do, to abuse 
this committee. 

Mr. Elconin. Mr. Chairman, if I were to do what you wanted me 
to do, you would let me stay here all night. 

Mr. Doyle. No, indeed, we would not. You are wrong again. 

Mr, Elconin. You would if I became a friendly seal here. You 
would be glad to let me stay here and spiel out names. You would 
encourage me. 

Mr. Doyle. Now you have that for your publication, also. 

Mr. Elconin. It is true ; isn't it ? 

Mr. Doyle. No. We would also expect a friendly witness to stick 
to the subject matter before us. 

Mr. Elconin. That is the way it has been in the past, that is all 
I know about it. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Doyle. Now will you answer Mr. Tavenner's question ? I direct 
you to answer. We are not accepting your answer so far given as 
sufficient. 

Mr, Elconin. I haven't finished it yet. 

Mr. Doyle. I am telling you we have not accepted your answer so 
far, if you intend it as part of an answer, any part of an answer, I 
am directing you to answer the question. 

Mr. Moulder. I understand the witness has refused to answer. 

Mr. Doyle. That is right. 

Mr. Moulder. He desires to give his reasons for refusing. I agree 
with him that he is entitled to give his reasons. 

However, I do not think you sliould read the argumentative por- 
tion of a court decision. I mean by that, I do not think you are lim- 
ited for your reasons for refusal to answer by limiting you to certain 



1722 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

provisions of the Constitution. If you have other reasons that you 
think are reasonable, you are entitled to express them. 

Mr. Elconin. I think so, too. I am trying to do that. 

Mr. Doyle. My ruling is you are not entitled to read that decision. 
You are entitled to give your constitutional reasons. 

Mr. Elconin. If I refer to it for the purpose of refreshing my 
memory as to my constitutional rights 

Mr. DoYLE. You are familiar with the decision, and so are we. 

Mr. Elconin. How do you know I am familiar with it? I will 
decide what I am familiar with, and you decide what the questions 
are. 

Mr. Doyle. I am not going to permit you to read that long decision. 
You manifestly show familiarity with the decisions, and I am glad 
you are. You clearly have no need of refreshing your memory. 

Mr. Elconin. I am not going to read it. Let me go ahead with my 
reasons. 

Mr. Doyle. Don't read the decision, please, if you are not referring 
to it. 

Mr. Elconin. I didn't say I wasn't referring to it. I said I wasn't 
reading it. I think, Mr. Chairman, it is my opinion that this com- 
mittee has no right to inquire into any of my private affairs or beliefs 
which are unrelated to any stated purpose. 

I think further this committee is misusing its power ; that it has no 
light whatsoever to engage in actions as if it were a court or a police 
force of any sort. And I think this committee has been doing that, 
and I cite this as one reason for refusing to answer this kind of 
question. 

I think further that this committee has established by its record 
and by its personal treatment of me in the past, not just today, a 
record of bias and prejudice against me and the organization I repre- 
sent so that it makes it impossible for me to get any kind of fair 
hearing here whatsoever. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman, I clearly disagree with the witness in 
that. 

Mr. Elconin. I will explain that. 

Mr. Moulder. That is not a reason for refusing. That is your 
opinion of the committee. 

Mr. Elconin. If you don't like it, you can discount it, but this is 
a reason. I don't feel I have an opportunity here to get a fair hearing 
whatsoever, and I will tell you why. 

Mr. Doyle. We are not interested in why. You have made your 
statement, and that is all right. Please proceed promptly. 

Mr. Elconin. I would further like to state that I took an oath to 
defend this country when I was a soldier, against all enemies, whether 
foreign or domestic, and in my opinion this committee has acted as 
one of the most serious enemies of our constitutional rights, and there- 
fore is acting in a lawless manner. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman, I object to the statement. 

Mr. Doyle. Just a minute, witness. 

I will move to strike that out of the record, that kind of baloney 
and misrepresentation. Our courts uphold the functioning of this 
committee under Public Law 601. 

Mr. Elconin. I can prove it. 



i 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1723 

Mr, Doyle. We are not going to burden the printed record with 
that sort of statement. You might as well understand i t 

Mr. Elconix. I thought I was going to be permitted to state my 
grounds. I am taking very little time. 

Mr. Doyle. They are not grounds; merely an attack on the com- 
mittee. 

Mr. Elconin. The chairman has been busily attacking other people. 
I have a right to defend myself here. I certainly have that right; 
do I not? If you deny this to me, what else do I have left ? 

Mr. Doyle. I am telling you I am not going to let that sort of junk 
go into the record for printing purposes oy your publication or any- 
body else. It is not a valid statement of fact before this committee. 
It is another false statement of yours for the purpose of your pub- 
lication. 

Mr. Elcoxin. My further reasons for refusing to answer the ques- 
tion is that this committee cannot inquire into the mind, personal 
affairs, my political beliefs or associations, because of the provisions 
cf the first amendment of our Constitution. 

My last ground for refusing to answer this question is that I refuse 
to be put in a position, by questions such as this, of appearing to be 
or being a witness against myself. This is one of the provisions of 
the Bill of Rights to which I refer, and I cite that as one of the reasons 
for refusing to answer this question, and I emphasize in citing that 

Mr. ScHERER. He has answered. He has refused to answer. 

Mr. Elconin, I am still answering, Mr. Scherer. You are inter- 
rupting me. 

Mr. Scherer. Just a minute. Witness. 

Mr. Chairman, he has answered the question. He has invoked the 
fifth amendment. He has invoked it properly. He has responded to 
the question. 

Mr. Elconin. Mr. Moulder said I should have an opportunity to 
explain briefly my reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. You have had an opportunity to explain. I know 
what you are doing. 

Mr. Elconin. Maybe you do. 

Mr. Scherer. Let's go ahead with the next question. 

Mr. Elconin. I want to emphasize the statement that the fifth 
amendment is for the purpose of defending the innocent people of 
this country. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you pleading the first and fifth amendments ? 

Mr. Elconin. I have mentioned those among many other grounds, 
yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Go ahead, Mr. Tavenner. He has frankly answered 
the question. 

Mr. Scherer. He has refused to say whether he was a Communist 
while in the Army. 

Mr. Elconin. "^Is the member of the committee there permitted to 
make all these offhand comments ? 

Mr. Doyle. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Elconin. I am asking a question. 

Mr. Doyle. He is a member of the committee. 

Mr. Elconin. What does that mean ? 

65500— 55— pt. 3 4 



1724 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Elconin, j^ou stated you were a field organizer 
in the UE from 1940 up until 4 or 5 years ago. During that period 
of time was the law construed in such a manner, as far as the UE 
was concerned, as to require field organizers to sign th<> Taft-Hartley 
non-Communist affidavit ? 

Mr. ScRiBNER. That is a legal question. Do you prefer I answer it ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Scribner. You are asking for construction of the law, and you 
are a lawyer and he is not. 

Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. 

Mr. Scribner. May I appeal to you. He is asking for construction 
of the law. 

Mr. Doyle. If you want to talk to the committee counsel when not 
before the committee, you may. 

Mr. Tavenner. The witness was a field organizer, and he knows 
whether he was required to file. 

Mr. Scribner. That is not 

Mr. Elconin. You asked if the law required it. It is not the same. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will put it this way, if there is any doubt about 
what it is. AVere you required to sign a non-Communist affidavit 
during the period you were a field organizer for the UE ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Elconin. As a matter of record, I did not file such a non- 
Communist affidavit and wasn't required to do so. I was advised I 
was not required to do so. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the period you were a field organizer, you 
were not employed in the shop or in the industry. That is true, 
isn't it? 

Mr. Elconin. I would think that was more or less self-evident. 
A field organizer is an organizer. A worker in the shop he represents 
works in a shop. Is there much question about that ? 

Mr. Tavenner. You are aware of the fact, are you not, that this 
committee has inquired into the reasons for the act being construed in 
such a manner as to relieve officials of the union from qualifying under 
the Tiift-Hartley Act in tlie sense of signing a non-Communist 
afiidavit? 

Mr. Elconin. I am not aware of any such thing. When did you 
start this inquiry ? 

Mr. Tavenner. You are not aware the committee started it in 1949? 

Mr. Elconin. I have never heard of it. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have never heard of that ? 

Mr. Elconin. I have not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me explain it to you. because the committee 
found that the Atomic Energj' Commission was construing tlie law in 
such a way as to require officials of the union who were not employed 
in the shops to sign non-Communist affidavits, on the theory that it 
was considered just as important to watch the security of" a plant 
where officials were members of tlie Communist Party, that is, officials 
of the union were members of the Communist Party, as it was to see 
to it that those working actually in the shop were not members of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Scribner. May I disagree with you as to tlie facts. I am fully 
familiar with this situation. I was involved in a court case 

Mr. Dotle. Just a minute. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1725 

Mr. ScRiBNER. It is completely misstating the fact. I am familiar 
witli it, and if you want information I will be delighted to give it to 
you. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has evidence on that subject, and 
that is a matter which this committee has investigated and made re- 
ports to the Congress about. I am inquiring of you about the same 
thing. 

Mr. Elconin. I never heard of this committee's investigation. I 
read a lot of lurid stories on this committee, but that wasn't one of 
them. 

Mr. Tavenner, You said you were not required, as field organizer 
of your union, to sign a non-Communist affidavit. 

Mr. Elconin. The law did not require that. It never has, doesn't 
now. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking vou, during the period of time you 
were field organizer for the UE, were you a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Elconin. I mean, do you want to play cute? Go ahead. I 
have given you my answer to that kind of question. It should be ap- 
parent to you by this time, no matter how obtuse you try to appear 
on this, I am not going to answer that kind of question. 

Mr. DoTLE. We don't think that answer is sufficient. Do you state 
the same grounds you did before ? 

Mr. Elconin. I certainly do. I state exactly the same grounds for 
refusing to answer this kind of question. You have absolutely no 
right to ask it. 

Mr. Doyle. You are entitled to stand on the same constitutional 
grounds if you state them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us, after you became an international 
representative in 1950 or 1951, if you signed a non-Communist affi- 
davit? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Elconin. It so happens I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. When ? 

Mr. Elconin. I signed a non-Communist affidavit, I believe— I am 
not positive of the date, but it was early in April of this year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Although you had been an international representa- 
tive for 4 to 5 years, you did not sign the affidavit until this year ? 

Mr. Elconin. I was not required to sign the affidavit as an organizer 
or international representative. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that because of the change in the law ? 

Mr. Elconin. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why didn't you sign it 

Mr. ScRiBNER. Do you want to discuss the law with me? There is 
a history behind this legal proceeding which has just been determined 
by the National Labor Relations Board which handled exactly that 
problem. If you want information on it, I am the one person in this 
country that can give you that information. I was directly acquainted 
with it, that is all. I am directly acquainted with it. 

Mr. ScHERER. You are the only person. Counsel ? 

Mr. ScRiBNER. I handled the case. I did. If you want information, 
I will give it to you. I was at the last hearing. I offered to give you 
information and you refused to accept it. 



1726 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Doyle. I am asking you to please comply with the rules of the 
committee, Attorney Scribner. 

Mr. Scribner. I will be delighted to, sir, if there are no legal ques- 
tions involved where I should answer. 

Mr. Doyle. Counsel is talking with your witness, not with you. 

(Representative Jackson returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. If I understood you correctly, you stated you did 
sign the non-Communist affidavit in May of 1955. 

Mr. Elcoxin. I think I said April. I am not sure of the date, but 
early April, April 18, I think. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were not required to sign it prior to that time? 

Mr. Elconin. I wasn't required to sign it then, legally, because the 
Taft-Hartley board later admitted that itself. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Elconin. I voluntarily did so for the sake of our organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time you signed the non-Communist affidavit, 
were you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Elconin. The same answer, Mr. Tavenner, to obviously the 
same question, and for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. When you signed that affidavit, when you made that 
affidavit, were you telling the truth ? 

Mr. Elconin. The affidavit, Mr. Scherer, speaks for itself. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Doyle. We do not accept your answer. I direct you to answer. 

Mr. Elconin. I am going to refuse to answer that question on the 
very same grounds, Mr. Chairman, and I resent the innuendo. 

Mr. Scherer. You will not say now whether you told the truth when 
you swore to that affidavit ? 

Mr. Elconin. All the implications you seek to put in that question 
are unjustified. You have no right to question me on the affidavit. 
It is filed with the United States Government, and it stands and speaks 
for itself. 

Mr. Scherer. All I am asking you is whether or not you told the 
truth when you signed the affidavit, or did you swear falsely ? 

Mr. Scribner. If he did, you could prosecute him, sir. The Depart- 
ment of Justice could prosecute him, couldn't they, Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Elconin. If you have any evidence I did anything wrong, take 
care of it through a legal agency. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner, I want^o call your attention to the violation of the 
rule with regard to taking pictures while the witness is on the witness 
stand. That man right there [indicating] . 

Mr. Doyle. I did not see any violation. 

Mr. Tavenner. I saw it. 

Mr. Doyle. Did he take pictures ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, moving pictures from behind the post. 

Mr. Doyle. I ask that the camera be taken and unloaded and the 
film destroyed. 

From the Audience. I understood you couldn't shoot pictures with 
lights. 

Mr. Doyle. You did not ask any such permission. 

From the Audience. All right. It is O. K. with me. I will give 
the marshal my film. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1727 

Mr. Doyle. Please. We cannot permit any deliberate violation of 
the rules, 

Mr. Tavennek. I am sorry for the interruption. 

Mr, Doyle. All right. It is a violation of the rules. I am sorry it 
occurred. Probably it was from a misunderstanding. 

Mr. ScRiBNER. We were discussing whether or not there should be a 
prosecution by this committee or prosecution by the Department of 
Justice. 

Mr. ScHERER. We will get around to that. Many prosecutions arose 
after people testified before this committee. 

Mr. ScRiBNER. I would like to engage in discussion with Mr. 
Scherer. 

Mr. Doyle. Not here, please. Do it when not in violation of our 
rules. 

Mr. Scherer. I am asking him whether or not when he signed the 
Taft-Hartley affidavit 

You took an oath, did you not ? 

Mr. Elconin. You have gotten my answer to that question. You 
have asked it three times, 

Mr, Scherer, I ask that you direct the witness to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Doyle. We cannot accept your answer in the present form in 
which it is. 

Mr. Elconin, You accepted my answer on the same grounds each 
time, and I give it again. 

Mr, Doyle. Under the Supreme Court decision, I make it perfectly 
clear I am directing you to answer. 

Mr, Elconin, You are refusing to accept the previous grounds? 
That is what I said, 

Mr, Doyle, All right, 

Mr, Tavenner, I want to ask you a few questions regarding the 
Canadian seamen's strike that occurred in 1949, The committee had 
extensive testimony on this subject at Albany, N. Y,, by a very promi- 
nent Canadian, and the committee has made an effort in the past and 
it is still making an effort to obtain what knowledge it can regarding 
the strike, 

I have run across a reference to it in the Daily People's World issue 
of June 29, 1949. 

The occasion for the reference was the printing in that paper of an 
article entitled "Violence Denounced — CIO Chiefs Score Terror Used 
Against Canada Seamen," and there is an article here from which I 
will read as follows, and then I will hand it to you to see if it refreshes 
your recollection. 

The Canadian seamen's strike has some 80 vessels tied up in ports throughout 
the world. They are demanding retention of their union hiring hall and wage 
increases. 

The steamship Argo'bec is struck in this port. 

The CSU claims the AFL Seafarers International Union signed a "backdoor"' 
agreement during negotiations between the shipowners and CSU for renewal of 
contract. 

As a result of some violence that occurred, it appears that a peti- 
tion was filed, and among the persons signing the petition was you, 

I hand you the document for the purpose of refreshing your recollec- 
tion, and will ask you to tell the committee what aid or assistance 



1728 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

was given the Canadian seamen's strike from the State of California 
in general, and in Los Angeles in particular. 

(Document handed to the witness. The witness conferred with his 
counsel.) 

Mr. Elconin. If your question is directed toward the matter of 
union affairs, international matters within the union, that, of course, 
is not relevant and you have no right to ask the question. 

If you intend, however, to try to use this to in some way involve me 
and the activities of people involved in that situation in connection 
with the inquiry you are talking about now, then of course I refuse 
to answer that question on the same grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. So there will be no uncertainty about your position, 
I will restate the question. 

I desire to know to what extent aid was given to the Canadian sea- 
men's union strike in 1949 from the west coast by anyone, and so that 
is my question. Do you have any knowledge of that? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Elconin. In response to your question, it would appear that 
you must have some idea in mind of some way linking this thing up 
with other matters that are supposedly involved in this investigation 
you are talking about, this inquiry. In view of that fact, since you 
have something like that in mind, obviously I have to refuse to answer 
that same question on all of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you familiar with the circumstances under 
which the Canadian seamen's strike was initiated or have any knowl- 
edge on the subject? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Elconin. I lived in Los Angeles at that time, and the Canadian 
seamen were in Canada, and I knew nothing about any strike what- 
soever. 

Mr. Tavenner. But it was a strike in which 80 ships were tied up 
all over the world. 

Mr. Elconin. You know more about it than I do. I don't know how 
many ships were tied up. 

Mr. Tavenner. The article appearing there in which a record of 
your petition was made 

Mr. Elconin. Petition against strikebreaking. It didn't say how 
many ships. 

Mr. Tavenner. It said 80 ships. 

Mr. Elconin. Maybe it did. 

Mr. Scherer. Does that article show that this man signed that peti- 
tion in connection with the strike ? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. It shows that he signed a petition, along with others, 
against alleged threats of violence that occurred here in connection 
with the ship that was tied up. That was what the petition apparently 
relates to, but in the same article there is a discussion of the Canadian 
seamen's strike which has tied up 80 vessels, of which one of them 
vras in this port. 

Mr. Patrick Walsh — as you will recall, Mr. Scherer, because you 
were present at the hearing — played a very important part, in fact 
was one of the key figures in that strike. He testified at Albany that 
this strike was a political strike which had no bona fide trade union 
principles involved whatsoever, and that it was being ordered by the 
Cominform. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1729 

Mr. Doyle. By what? 

Mr. Tavenner. The Cominf orm, which is the international organ- 
ization and which faithfully carries out the dictates of the Soviet 
Union; that this strike was being organized with the end in view of 
tying up shipping in ports all over the world so that the Marshall 
plan shipments would not be delivered in time or the cargoes would 
rot, and at the same time it was expected to deal a crippling blow to 
the Atlantic Pact which the Communists were vigorously opposing at 
that time all over Europe. 

Mr. Patrick Walsh had been a member of the Communist Party 
and was used by the Communist Party in that strike. He testified as 
to his attendance at a meeting of the Maritime Commission of the 
Communist Party in Europe where the plans for this strike were dis- 
cussed, and where the Beaver Brae ship on the Canadian Line was 
to be the key ship, and its docking in the port at London would be 
the signal for the beginning of the strike. 

We have followed that matter very closely, and the reason for 
asking about the interest being taken in it here is this, or one reason : 
On the west coast of the United States, Harry Bridges' Longshore- 
men's Union cooperated in Seattle and and in San Francisco entirely 
with the Canadian Seamen's Union. Crew members of ships who 
happened to be at that time in Seattle and in San Francisco were 
fed by Harry Bridges' Union, and donations were being raised every 
day by the International Longshoremen and Warehousemen's Union. 

It is a historical fact that the Marine Cooks and Stewards also 
openly cooperated and donated financial assistance to the Communist- 
led crews in these two ports. 

Mr. ScRiBNER. What has all that to do with him, that he filed a 
petition charging police brutality ? 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask that counsel be directed to desist. 

Mr. Elconin. I would like to ask the same question. I signed a 
petition against police brutality. 

Mr. DoYLE. Our counsel has not finished. 

Mr. Elconin. I thought he had. 

Mr. Tavenner. You knew pretty well I had not. 

Mr. Elconin. I did not. 
^ Mr. Tavenner. In light of this newspaper statement of the ac- 
tivity in Los Angeles, I want to know to what extent — it is the same 
question I asked you in the beginning. You didn't seem to under- 
stand it, as to why I was asking it. 

Mr. Elconin. You made clear why. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. 

I think now you should understand. I want to know to what extent, 
if any, there was any assistance given in Los Angeles or any other 
place in California, if you know, to this Canadian seamen's strike. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Elconin. According to what you have just asked, the assist- 
ance which I apparently am accused of giving these people is to try 
to defend them against force and violence. 

Mr. Tavenner. I haven't accused you of anything. 

Mr. Elconin. That is what the petition t signed was supposed to 
be. I am against force and violence, even if it is used against pickets 
and picket lines, and the fact I signed it, I don't know insofar as 



1730 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

other questions are concerned, since my original suspicion of your 
intent was cleared by what you said, I reassert the same answer and 
for the very same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, you refuse to answer whether or 
not you know of any assistance given in this port to the Canadian 
Seamen's Union ? 

Mr. Elconin. That is absolutely right. I refuse to answer any- 
thing about that topic at all. I think it is apparent you are trying 
to trap me in something. 

Mr. ScHERER. I heard counselor here give him an answer — "It is 
apparent you are trying to trap me." 

Mr. ScRiBNER. Do you want me to tell what I said to him ? I am 
the one to know that. I told him, "They don't have to entrap you — • 
you don't have to permit them to entrap you." Is that wrong? 

Mr. Doyle, No effort to entrap him was made and you know it. 

Mr. Scribner. If ever I saw it, it was this moment right here. 

Mr. ScHERER. There is a rule of this committee which prevents 
counsel from putting into the mouth of the witness his answer. Please 
observe it. 

Mr. Elconin. I would assume, Mr. Scherer, there is general under- 
standing that what the counsel says to me, however, is something 
confidential between him and me, and your reading his lips doesn't 
help me any. 

Mr. Scherer. I do not have to read his lips. 

Mr. Jackson. Everything was audible here. 

Mr. Elconin. You must have read his lips. 

Mr. Scribner. I will be glad to do it all the time. I want you to 
hear it. 

Mr. DoTLE. I will be striking your observations from the record 
pretty soon so they will not appear. 

Mr. Scribner. It would not be a public hearing. It would stop 
being a public hearing. 

Mr. Doyle. You are also apparently trying to make a record for 
publication, showing attacks by you upon this committee. 

Mr. Scribner. I have no interest in that. I am here to defend my 
client. 

Mr. Jackson. The counsel for the witness is either deliberately or 
without deliberation violating the rules of the committee, and I will 
insist, Mr. Chairman, that at the next outburst he be asked to remove 
himself from the room. Either counsel for the witnesses are going to 
take over this hearing or the Congress of the United States is going to 
run it; and so far as I am concerned, the congressional committee is 
going to run the hearing. 

Mr. Scribner. If you don't refer to me, sir, I won't answer any- 
thing; but if you say anything that refers to me, I must answer it, 
and common decency requires it. 

Mr. Jackson. Let us start from scratch. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Elconin. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
already given, as I think you know I would have done. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Scherer. No questions. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1731 

Mr. DoTXE, I have no questions. 

Thank you, Witness, and Mr. Scribner. 

The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes. 

(Brief recess.) 

(Members present were Representatives Doyle, Jackson, and 
Scherer. ) 

Mr. Doyle. May the committee reconvene, please. 

I will appreciate the cooperation of you men of the professional 
photographers. We appreciate the cooperation you have already 
given us. I am sorry the incident occurred wherein a moving picture 
was being taken of us which was in violation of the House rules as 
interpreted by our Speaker. I simply could not permit a violation 
while testimony is being taken. I know you photographers will not 
take pictures of the committee or the witness while testimony is in 
process. 

Are you ready, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. I would like to call Mr. William Kimple, 
please. 

Mr. Doyle. Will you please raise your right hand and be sworn. Do 
you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Kimple. I do. 

Mr. Doyle. Will you please take the witness chair. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM WARD KIMPLE 

Mr, Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, sir ? 

Mr, Kimple. William Ward Kimple, K-i-m-p-1-e. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kimple, it is noted that you are not accompanied 
by counsel. You are familiar with the rule that you are entitled to 
have counsel with you if you desire ? 

Mr. Kimple. I swore to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, and for that I do not need legal counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Kimple ? 

Mr. Kimple. I was born the 29th day of January 1901, in Chambers- 
ville. Pa, 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Kimple. I do, 

Mr, Tavenner. How long have you lived in Los Angeles? 

Mr, Kimple. I first arrived in Los Angeles in about 1920 or 1921, 
and except for about a j^ear in 1922 at which time I was in Portland, 
Oreg., I lived in Los Angeles continuously until 1945, and then I went 
to San Diego County until about 1952, and returned to Los Angeles 
and have been here continuously ever since, 

Mr, Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
formal educational training has been ? 

Mr. Kimple. Grammar school, high school, and 2 years in college, 
Bethany, W. Va. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your occupation since 1923 or 192-4? 

Mr. Kimple. I was a police officer in the Los Angeles Police Force 
from 1924 until 1944, at which time I retired and have been retired ever 
since, 

65500 — 55 — pt. 3 5 



1732 COMMUNIST activities in the LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. When you first became a member of the police force, 
were you given any special type of training ? 

Mr. KiMrLE, I was sent to a police school for 3 months. 

Mr. Tavenner. After returning from your course in police train- 
ing or schooling, what assignment did you receive as a member of the 
police force ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I was assigned to the Intelligence Squad of the Los 
Angeles Police Department. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you remain on assignment to that squad for a 
considerable period of time ? 

Mr. Kimple. For the entire duration of my time in the police depart- 
ment. 

Mr. Doyle. How many years was that? 

Mr. Kimple. Twenty years, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, without going 
into detail, what your first assignment was? 

]VIr. Kimple. To investigate the activities of the Industrial Workers 
of the World. 

Mr. Tavenner. In order to perform that function were you advised 
to try to become a member of it ? 

Mr. Kimple. I was. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. And did you become a member of it ? 

Mr. Kimple. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Time does not permit me to ask you further ques- 
tions regarding the activities of that organization, but were you sub- 
sequently required by the police department to seek membership in 
another organization ? 

Mr. Kimple. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What organization was that ? 

Mr. Kimple. The Communist Party. At that time it was the 
Workers Communist Party. 

Mr. Taatsnner. When did that assignment begin ? 

Mr. Kimple. July 1928. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did it end ? 

Mr. Kimple. I believe in September 1939. 

Mr. Tavenner. So for a period of 11 years, you were in the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Kimple. I was a member of the Communist Party for 11 
consecutive years ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you say you were a member of the Commu- 
nist Party, do you mean to say that you were a member in the sense 
that you joined the organization at the instance of your superior, but 
that you were not an ideological member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Kimple. That is correct ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what positions 
you reached in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kimple. I was unit literature agent; I was unit educational 
director ; I was unit organizer ; I was the assistant to the Los Angeles 
County membership department; I was an alternate on the discipli- 
nary committee on the county level. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say your activity in the party continued until 
September 1939. What was the reason for its termination ? 

Mr. Kimple. At that time I was informed that I was under suspi- 
cion of being a police spy. 



COIMMUNIST ACTWITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1733 

Mr. Taatenner. You were informed that by whom ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. By Mr. Paul Cline, the organizer of the Communist 
Party in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. What did he tell you to do ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Stay away from all Communist Party activities. 

]Mr. Tavenner. Was the suspicion of your connection with the 
police department made known to the rank and file members of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. KiMPLE. No, sir ; not at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give the committee a reason for it? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. Because of the position which I held, it 
would have been very demoralizing to the membership of the Com- 
munist Party if they knew that the man who had all of their member- 
ship records was in fact one of the Hines Red squad. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Before I come to the question of your knowledge of 
Communist Party records by virtue of your position as assistant 
membership director, if I understood you correctly 

Mr. KiMPLE. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. I believe I should ask you certain other questions 
regarding the activities of the Conununist Party while you were in it. 

Will you tell the committee, please, what the first organizational 
effort was of the Connnunist Party after you joined it in 1928, I 
believe you said ? What was the first activity that they engaged in ; 
do you recall ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I do not recall at that time any definite activity other 
than the usual Communist Party work such as sale of literature and 
attempting to recruit other people into the r'ommunist Party and to 
get into mass organizations and put over the Communist Party Una 
where possible. 

Mr. Tavenner. At that time, back in your early experience in the 
Communist Party, what was the total membership of it when you first 
became connected, as far as you could determine ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I believe it was just a little over 100 members. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1939 wiien you were suspected of being con- 
nected with the city police department, and at the time when you were 
assistant membership director, will you give us your estimate of the 
membership at that time ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. My recollection is that for the 1939 Communist Party 
membership registration, the total was 2,880. So I would esiimate 
about 3,000 at the time I left in September 1939. 

Mr, Tavener. You spoke of the interest and the activity of the 
Communist Party in various mass organizations, and their efforts to 
recruit members. Will you tell the committee, please, what means 
the Communists used to recruit their members in the early days of your 
membership ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Through personal association and through the con- 
ducting of mass meetings, educational meetings, and contact with the 
factory worker, your shopmate in the factory. 

Mr. Ta^t:nner. Are you familiar with an organization or organiza- 
tions known as TTnemployment Councils ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what way were they used by the Communist 
Party? ^ 



1734 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. KiMPLE. At the time of the depression, the Communist Party 
organized the Unemployed Councils as a mass organization in which 
the Communist Party members were assigned to work, and they 
would recruit unemployed workers into the Unemployed Councils 
and go before the relief organizations, and so forth, and try to get 
better relief for them. And to impress upon the people the militancy 
of their organization, they would turn on the gas and electricity after 
the constituted authorities had turned it off; they would move the 
furniture of evicted workers back into the houses after they had been 
legally evicted ; and they would stage picket lines and mass demonstra- 
tions in front of relief organizations. 

Mr. Jackson. Would they also do these things for one who resisted 
recruitment into the Communist Party ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. If they would join the Unemployed Council, they 
would. 

Mr. Jackson. The reason I asked that question is because there was 
testimony in San Diego, last year, to the effect that all went well with 
the party or with the party line ; but that in other instances where the 
need was equal, if there was resistance, say, in the organization, if 
anyone spoke out against the Communist Party as such, it was impos- 
sible for him to get relief baskets or anything of the sort. 

I wondered whether there was a parallel here or not. 

Mr. KiMPLE. Well, sir, I was not a member of the Unemployed 
Councils, and I cannot give you firsthand information on that. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Did you have occasion to observe the work of the 
Communist Party within the Workers Alliance in that period ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. That organization was an organization 
which was an outgrowth, outcropping, from the Unemployed Coun- 
cils. It was the same program, same policy. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the Communist Party use those organizations 
as a base for recruiting membership into the Communist Party ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. It was done to a great extent ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. To what extent was that means of recruiting suc- 
cessful ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. It was very successful, sir, as the figures which I have 
3ust quoted would indicate, because many of the recruitments came 
through the Workers Alliance, and the Communist Party in Los 
Angeles grew by leaps and bounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the Communist Party also expand its organiza- 
tional efforts to the persons who had served in the Armed Forces of 
the United States? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was that organization known as, the resulting 
organization ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. It was an organization here in Los Angeles known as 
the Workers Ex-Servicemen's League, which attempted to recruit 
servicemen from the Armed Forces. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was responsible or what group was responsible 
for the initiation of that movement — the organization ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. In Los Angeles, the Communist Party was. 

Mr. Taatenner. Will you tell the committee just what was done in 
the way of activity in that organization ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1735 

Mr. KiMPLE. The Communist Party assigned certain of its Com- 
munist Party members who were ex-servicemen into the forming of 
this organization. The organization met regularly and carried on 
considerable propaganda in favor of the (Workers) Ex-Servicemen's 
League, and there were many of them recruited into the Communist 
Party, and they carried on work within the Communist Party to the 
extent of drilling Communist Party members in Army tactics to be 
used in combating the constituted authorities. 

Mr, Jackson. Do you mean the Cossacks? 

Mr. Doyle. Do you mean right here in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. In Los Angeles, yes, sir ; Boyle Heights Cooperative 
Center, 2706 Brooklyn Avenue. 

Mr. Doyle. When you say "constituted authorities" do you mean the 
Communist Party drilled citizens who were members of the Commu- 
nist Party, if need be, to resist the police ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I mean the police, yes, sir, in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Doyle. You mean drilled them in military formation ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. DoYi.E. What year was that ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. That was, I believe, in the early 19.30's. 

Mr. DoYLE. Were the drills in secret or out in the open ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. They were in the building, the Cooperative Center, 
in the auditorium ; drilled both men, women, and children. 

Mr. Doyle. And were they equipped in any way w^ith ammunition? 

Mr. KiMPLE. No, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Imitation guns ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. No, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Who were they drilled by ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Members of the Workers Ex- Servicemen's League. 

Mr. Doyle. Were those men, any of them, using ex-military uni- 
forms when they drilled them ? 

Mr. Kimple. Not that I can recall, other than many people at that 
time were using the Army shirts and trousers, but they did not 

Mr. Doyle. You say drilling people. How young were the children ? 

Mr, Kimple. In the teen ages, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Junior and senior high school ? 

Mr. Kimple. Yes, sir, 

Mr. Doyle. About how many hundred of them would be drilled that 
way? 

Mr. Kimple. Do you mean of the children ? 

Mr. Doyle. The total. 

Mr. Kimple. They had various drills at different times when differ- 
ent Communist Party members would be present, and I would say 
maybe 150 to 200 people at that time would attend. 

Mr. Doyle. Did they receive any oral instructions as to what to do 
to resist the constituted authorities ? In other words, they were drill- 
ing for what purpose ? 

Mr. Kimple. For the purpose of forming defense for the Com- 
munist Party activities. 

Mr. Doyle. What were they instructed to do, if you know, against 
the constituted authorities ? 

Mr. Kimple. Well, sir, slightly aside from this drilling in the 
Cooperative Center, at the times of demonstrations which were 



1736 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

organized by the Communist Party here in Los Angeles, defense 
squads were organized and they were instructed to surround the 
speaker and to attempt to keep the constituted authorities from enforc- 
ing the Laws, which is telling them to move on or not to hold meetings 
where they are not authorized to do so ; and the women were instructed, 
I remember times, to carry umbrellas and to use them against the "red 
squad." 

The men said if they were carpenters, to wear their carpenter's uni- 
form and to have a hammer in the position where a carpenter usually 
carried a hammer, and to have any means of defense that they could 
do so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kimple, I hand you an original document and 
ask you to examine it and state whether or not you can identify it. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Tavenner, before he answers that question, may I 
ask one more question on that ? 

What were the children instructed to do, if anything, these junior 
and senior high school children — the teenagers ? What was their part 
in resisting constituted authorities ? 

Mr. Kimple. The children, sir, received their instructions through 
the Young Pioneers and the Young Communist League, and I was not 
there and did not hear their direct instructions, so I would rather not 
comment on it. 

Mr. Doyle. We just want what you know of your own personal 
knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. My question was, can you identify that document; 
and if so, will you tell us what it is ? 

Mr. Kimple. This is an outline which was presented to the unit 
organizers in the functionary meetings of the Communist Party, to be 
taken to the Communist Party units to give instructions to the Com- 
munist Party members. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you transmit that copy to your superior? 

Mr. Kimple. I believe I did. I received these copies, and I gave my 
superior officer copies of everything I obtained. Whether or not I 
gave him this particular one, I couldn't say. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer the document in evi- 
dence and ask that it be marked "Kimple Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Doyle. It will be received and marked as the exhibit described. 

(The exhibit referred to is as follows:) 

Mr. Tavenner. At the end of this outline for discussion, Mr. Chair- 
man, appears an information blank which is called to the attention of 
all unit organizers, and in which it is said on the blank — 

Please give full details here about servicemen who are friends or relatives of 
party members or party sympathizers ; make duplicate blanks for other contacts. 
This information will be carefully guarded and steps taken immediately to contact 
these men. 

I understood you to say that that was discussed in your organizers' 
meetings with direction of the organizers to take that back to their 
various groups or cells of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Kimple. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know to what extent the suggestions in there 
were carried out or attempted to be carried out? 

Mr. Kimple. I know that committees were sent to visit the ships in 
the harbor at San Pedro, and I know that there were assignments of 
Communist Party members to join the National Guard. I know that 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1737 
KiMPLE Exhibit No. 1 
DiaouBslon Outline: WOBK IS TiL: ..xUcD ^0JlC£3 H.f.Hytet' i-t^f 



0) 



1, Relation of ermefl foroea to Working Class 

A. Come from ranges of worlcers (workers, poor fanoars, 
small middle olass) 

B. Many joined baouuse of economic orisis, imen9l03nDD8nt,izi8eourit;* 

C. Have families back home suffering, struggling for existano** 

D. Have own grievances similar to those of other worker's* 

E. Potential revolutionary role of ar-nad forces* 

1. Armed uprising of workers must have support of armed fopoes* 

2. srforkers must win support of soldiers and National Guard for 
all strikes and demonstrations. (Example Petrograd garri- 
son of 110,000 men revolted and joined workers daaonBtration* 
on first day of ?ebruery Hevolution 1917. potemkin revolt 

of sailors in itevolution of 1905. 

3. British navcil mutiny at Invergorden, Scotland, 1931, against 
payouts. 

4. Striice of sailors on De Zeven Provlnoien . Dutoh oruiaer, ^b« 
1933, against watie-ouTi". 

6* Recant mutiny on HiilS Hood en route to North Sea. 

II. How the government uses the armed forces* 

A. To suppress strikes, demonstrations, etc* fNat*Gaard used in 
strikes in Illinios; iirmy used sgainet Bonus Army in Wash.) 
Threat of sending militia against California cotton strikers.) 

B. To enforce iraperi-listio rule in colonies; acquire new oolonies* 

C. To serve as cannon fod-er in iaparlalist war. 

D. To protect property of imperialist's In foreign countries* 

III. Armed forces in our seotidn. 

A. Bulk of U.S. xfavy ooncpntratod tround Long Beach, San Pedro. 

B. i/arine bise. Naval Training Station, Air Station, Ssn Diego* 

C. Fort iJacarthus, San irearo. Important ooase artillery post* 

D. ilarsh ?iald, Riverside, lOCC men, air corps. 

E. Notional Suiird in L.it., Long Beach, Sen Pedro, San Diego, eto* 
It ROTC in hirjh schools and colleges. 

IV. Essential facts, on Navy, fi'or N.S, & *rmy see future outlines*} 
A. Enlisted personnel — 79,7C0 

1. Ages -- under 25, 38,797. Over 25, 42,000 

2. Color — White, 76,018. ?ilipino, 4,133. Negro, 441'. 

3. In Sept. 1932, 448 ships in commission 

148 combatant ships 
1C7 fleet service or special duty 
120 shore activities 
28 training naval reserves 

45 ccmbiitant, in reduced commission, being modemired* 
4* In active service 11 battleships, 19 cruisers, 3 aircraft 

carriers, 78 destroyers, 66 submarines* 
5. New ships now under construction 4 heavy cruisers, 1 alr- 
ortft carrier, 2 destroyers. 

Y, Conditions of sen. 

A. Sinoo crisis less man leaving service because of less chance 

of getting job on outside, mora men re-enlisting than evir. 
B« Oovemment cut out re-enlisting bonus thru act of Congress* 
(Bonus is 4 -nonths extra pay given for 1 xaediata re-enliatmant 
after first term is up.) This was biggest single cut ever giv- 
en men. 
C. Men doing work of higher rate without promotion or raise in pay* 



1738 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Iraied Popces discussion outline,,,, page 2 {^ 

B. 

la Itust make 94% on examinations for promotion Instead of 

75% as before. Years in aervlco do not co\int for promotion, 
S« Cash awards for rifle shsirp shoo ting abolished; clothing allow- 
ance roduoed (for Marines, from about $97 to about |27,) 
P« Sailors do work of civilians (repairs.,oto,) at sajlors pay, 

VI, Our tasks, 

1, Ma3s visiting of ships, army posts, by workers organizations, 
B, Pamillari .ze ourselves with amod forces and their problems, 
0* Hake contaots, 

1, Approach sorvicemon as workers in \mlforn, make friends, 
find out conditions of thalr families; find out if man or 
his family have any connection with labor movement, 
2o Have group, of cpmracjcs malntaii> continual porrespcndpn,ce.. 
tmd personal contact with servlcenon, 
C« Form groups of mon to initiate struggles against grievances, 
D, Organize study groups of class-conscious servicemen to study 
theory of revolutionary movement; invito mon to our meetings, 
affaire, otoo (not In uniform) 
B, Get news of grievances, news items, for Western '.Torker, Young 
Worker^ and other papers in workers press. 



INFCmULTION BLANK 
Attention unit organizers J 

Please give full details hero about ser - 
vicemen TTho are friends or relatives of Party members or Party sym - 
pathizorsc Mako duplicate blanks for other contacts. This informa - 
tion will bo carefully guarded, and steps taken immediately to 
contact these menj 

NAME Branch of service 

Address of ship, post or reserve headquarters 



How long in service ? _^_______ Present rating 

Any knowledge of labor movement? 

Family background 



HasM of comrade who knows hi m 

(This is most Inportant, It la Impossible to got r.cqucintod 
v.'ith sorvicenon unless v;e can refer to a mutual friend,) 

l8 there anyone in the unit v/hcae previous experience ospeclrlly fits 
hin for contact work ariong servicemen, or for joining National Guard? 



Rome 



Address 



when the National Guard was entraining to leave for camp, that the 
Coramunist Party had literature there to distribute to the men. Those 
are instances that come to my mind right now of activity along that 
line. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall who was in charge of the enforcement 
of this general program within the Communist Party? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I remember a man by the name of Harry Buchanan as 
being one of the leaders in that ex-servicemen's group, or was that the 
intent of your question, sir? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1739 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know or can you recall the name of the per- 
son who was in charge of infiltration, of which you spoke just a mo- 
ment ago, in the National Guard and other military groups i 

]Mr. KiMPLE. I do not recall any commission having charge of that 
other than the organizational apparatus of the Communist Party in 
Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were referring a moment ago to this program 
in the Armed Forces being submitted to the unit organizers. Now I 
have before me what purports to be a report of a meeting of unit organ- 
izers held on July 1:2, 11)32, as to this one. I hand it to you and ask 
you if you can identify it as a report of a meeting of organizers. 
(Document handed to the witness.) 

Mr, KiMPLE. Yes, sir, I can. 

Mr. Tavenner. I notice that this report bears the name of units by 
numbers. For instance, unit 17 and unit 32. Does it contain the 
names of the organizers of these various units 'i 

Mr. KiMPLE. The names of the organizers of the units, yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I notice unit No. 32 has as its organizer a person by 
the name of Ward. Can you identify that person ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir ; that is myself. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that your party name ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir, William Ward. Pardon me. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How is that ? 

Mr. Kimple. I said that was not my party name. William Wallace 
was my party name. William Ward was the name I was known by in 
public. 

Mr. Tavenner. As far as the Communist Party was concerned, they 
thought this was your true name, "Ward" ? 

Mr. Kimple. That is right ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. But your party name was Wallace ? 

Mr. Kimple. William Wallace ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I do not desire to offer this in evi- 
dence at this time, but I would like for it to be marked for identifica- 
tion only as "Kimple Exhibit No. 2." (See executive exhibit No. 4.) 

Mr. Doyle. While you are getting ready to ask the next question, 
may I ask the witness one question. 

The contents of Exhibit 1 worries me. That was the Communist 
direction and information with reference to the American military 
and the National Guard, giving the Communists secret information or 
through secret channels telling them to get in touch with American 
military and giving the number of Negro members, four hundred- 
some-odd, and 76,000 whites, and so forth. What was the Communist 
Party interested in distributing that sort of secret information for? 

Mr. Kimple. Sir, the Communist Party 

Mr. Doyle. Was that right in Los Angeles ? 

Mr, Kimple. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. What concern was it of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kimple. The Communist Party, sir, was endeavoring to in- 
fluence the Armed Forces of the United States to revolt against the 
United States and join the forces of the Communist Party-inspired 
revolution and fight against the capitalist system in the United States. 



1740 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr, Doyle. You mean to use force and violence as they had in Rus- 
sia to overthrow our constituted government ^ 

Mr. IviMPLE. We were told in the Communist Party, sir, that that 
was the only way that we could achieve communism in the United 
States. 

Mr. Doyle. You were told that right in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Kimple.. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. What year was that ? 

Mr. Kimple. Those instructions w^ere, I believe, in 1934, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. One reason I ask that, it is manifestly for the benefit 
of you people who have been here today and yesterday and heard 
some of these known Communists, that is, some known to us, plead the 
amendments, and so forth. 

Mr. Scherer. I think another observation that might be made in 
line with what you say, Mr. Doyle, is to recall that some of these mem- 
bers who have admitted membership in the Communist Party say 
that they never knew that the Communist Party was dedicated to the 
overthrow of this Government by force and violence. 

Mr. Doyle. That is right. 

Mr. Scherer. Or some of the apologists for the party to contend 
that to be true. 

Mr. Doyle. I cannot help but notice by expressions on faces, and 
so forth, from time to time in these meetings when your friends visit 
us while at work, that some of you condenni our committee and some 
of you are cynical about what we are doing, some of you do not think 
it is cricket, some of you think we are wasting taxpayers' money. I 
can tell by evident expressions on faces, and otherwise, by demonstra- 
tions, some of you are in sympathy with some of these people that we 
identify as Communists. But may I say to you, I think probably I 
liave as much reason as any person in this room to feel this way. When 
it affects your own family with death in the Armed Forces you feel 
differently, if it is the result of Communist aggression. This commit- 
tee is not only in possession of sworn testimony like this, of reputable 
citizens, all across the country, but for years we have had this sort of 
sworn testimony, and this committee is not after the past or present 
Communists who are on the periphery of the thing. We and the FBI 
are after those who are advocating force and violence to overthrow 
your constitutional government and ours. 

That is the danger of the Communist conspiracy. That is why this 
-connnittee is working hard to try to cooperate with the other segments 
of the Government, your Government and mine, to expose the con- 
spiracy. Right here in your own citv is this condition of where the 
Communist Party right here under your nose, was circulating secret 
material to try to influence the American military — that is, those who 
might be susceptible — to think in terms of doing what they did in 
Russia to overthrow constitutional government. 

Thank God we have no reason to try to do that here like they did 
over there. 

I felt I should make this statement in view of this sworn statement 
from this respected police officer. 

May I say one more thing. I think I mentioned it yesterday or the 
day before. As a member of the Armed Services Committee, when I 
went to Asia last time and Europe, we questioned the highest Amer- 
ican officials there and foreign intelligence. They said the same thing 
this man said on the stand. In Europe, Asia, the Philippines, China, 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1741 

Korea, this underground conspiracy in the United States today that 
you have heard some testimony about, emanates from over there and is 
part and parcel of the same cons]3iracy. 

I felt that your friends in the audience should have that statement 
from me as chairman in connection with this sort of testimony. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you another document entitled "Special In- 
structions." Will you examine it, please ? 

(Document handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state what it is ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. That is a set of instructions which were issued to the 
same channels as I mentioned before, through the unit organizers, 
functionaries' meetings, and it was for the protection of the Com- 
munist Party members and apparatus while they were functioning as 
such, and for the protection of the Communist Party records against 
seizure by constituted authorities. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence, and ask 
tliat it be marked "Kimple Exhibit No. 3." (See executive exhibit 
No. 27.) 

Mr. Doyle. It will be so received and so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. This document is entitled "Special Instructions for 
Efficient Party Apparatus, Protection of Comrades, Preparations for 
Illegality, Conduct of Comrades." 

J\Ir. Doyle. Is that right here in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. [Reading :] 

Our unit meetings can be made alive and interesting if 90 percent of the 
time is used for Marxist-Leninist education and discussion of party campaigns, 
and no time of ttie meeting is spent on doling out to each comrade endless 
amounts of tickets, Western Workers, leaflets and other assignments. These 
practical steps are vitally important and they can be handled easily as follows : 
I.— 

section (a) deals with the division of the Communist Party unit into 
squads of 3, 4 or 5 each. I shall not read that. 

III. Functionaries are instructed (a) to keep all membership lists in a safe 
place and in cipher or code (see attached for simple methods of cipher) . 

By the way, did you have charge of the membership lists yourself? 
Did you have the membership lists of the Communist Party in your 
own possession? 

Mr. KiMPLE. During the years of 1936, 1937, and 1938, and 1939, 
I did ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. The next instruction : 

No records of any kind to be kept in headquarters offices. Whatever is 
needed for work there during the day should be taken away at night. 

I assume you lived up to that requirement. 

Mr. KiMPLE. I did, sir, and kept them in a safe place, the police 
department. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then the last page is a simple type of cipher or code 
to be used in the form of a code for communication which I shall not 
attempt to describe. 

Was it the practice of the Communist Party to issue what was known 
as organization letters? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe they usually called them org. letters. 

Mr. KiMPLE. That is correct. 



1742 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to present an organizational letter to 
you and ask if you can identify it as one issued to you. 

(Document handed to the witness.) 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, I recognize that as a Communist Party organi- 
zational letter which was issued through the organizational apparatus 
of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer the document in 
evidence and ask that it be marked "Kimple Exhibit No. 4." (See 
executive exhibit No. 31.) 

Mr. Doyle. It will be received and marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. It deals with the subject of hunger marches, election 
campaigns, Western Worker Weekly, recruiting drive, and the AFL 
convention in 1932. 

I would like to read, for the purpose of showing what efforts the 
Communist Party was endeavoring to make, the section relating to 
the AFL convention. 

What to do : The convention takes place in Modesto on September 19. 

(1) Send us the names and addresses of delegates who are sympathetic to us 
immediately. 

(2) Check up on every possibility for electing sympathetic delegates from 
A. F. of L., and do not forget to rush in their names so it vpill be possible to 
organize a caucus for our insurance bill and other points. 

Comradely yours, 

Secretariat. 

Wliat was meant by "Secretariat" ? 

Mr. Kimple. That was the organizational committee of the State. 
Mr. Doyle. Let us stand in recess until 2 'clock. 
(Whereupon, at 12:10 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to recon- 
vene at 2 p. m.j of the same day. ) 

AFTERNOON SESSION— JUNE 30, 1955 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will please come to order. 

Again this afternoon the hearing room is occupied by more citizens 
than in the morning, and I know we will have your cooperation in 
keeping as quiet as you may, please, with no outbursts of either appro- 
bation or disapproval of anything that is said. 

Let the record show that the full personnel of the subcommittee is 
here. Congressman Scherer, of Ohio ; Congressman Jackson, of Cali- 
fornia ; Congressman Moulder, of Missouri ; and Congressman Doyle, 
of California. 

Are you ready, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM WARD KIMPLE— Eesumed 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kimple, during the course of your testimony 
this morning you made reference to the Young Pioneer group. Will 
you tell the committee, please, what you meant by Young Pioneers? 

Mr. Kimple. The Young Pioneer organization was that organiza- 
tion which was organized by the Communist Party for the children 
at about high-school age, about I would say 10 to 14 or 15 years of 
age. They were under the direct supervision of the Young Com- 
munist League. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1743 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the general function of the Young 
Pioneers ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. That was sort of the Communist organization to 
counteract the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. They would hold the 
regular meetings, attend the Communist demonstrations, and then 
their summer schools and picnics, et cetera. 

Mr. Doyle. Why in the world would the Communists want to 
counteract and oppose the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts? What is 
wrong with the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts of America ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. They opposed the dictatorship of the proletariat as 
advocated by the Soviet Union and that is against the Communist 
theory, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did I understand you to say that the Young Pio- 
neer group had their picnics ? Did they also have summer camps ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. They did ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell the committee or do you recall where 
any of the camps were conducted ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I recall one in particular, sir, which was at Yukipa, 
I believe was the name of the place. It is up in the San Bernardino 
area. As I recall, there was a raid on this camp where they found 
they were teaching the youth allegiance to the Red flag. I believe 
several young Communists were held to answer for that in the courts. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall about when that was ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. It was early in my period in the organization, sir. 
I would say late twenties or early thirties. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have no knowledge of activities within the 
Communist Party since 1939 ; do you ? 

Mr. K131PLE. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you tell the committee, please how the 
Communist Party was set up organizationally speaking from the time 
you first became a member of it ? 

Mr. Kimple. When I first joined the Communist Party it was in 
language branches and then they changed. As the party grew they 
dropped the language branch and took it on a street basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many language branches were there at the 
time you became a member when you said there were I believe about 
a hundred members ? 

Mr. Kimple. As I recall, sir, it was a Russian branch, an English 
branch, a Jewish branch, and I think there was one other, I don't 
recall. As I recall, there were four branches that come to my memory 
now. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did the Communist Party continue to 
function through these four branches ? 

Mr. Kimple. Well, sir, practically immediately after I joined in 
1928 they began changing into street "units. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall now how any units were organized ? 

Mr. Kimple. I am sorry, sir, I couldn't tell you that because it 
fluctuated so. I believe by the time I left the party that— I am going 
to have to be excused from giving that exact number, but I believe 
there is a document that tells how many units there were at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there an additional tvpe of organizational set- 
up in addition to the units ? 



1744 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. KiMPLE. As the Communist Party grew here in the Los Angeles 
area they divided the Los Angeles subdistrict into subsections. We 
had I believe maybe as high as 18 or 20 subdivisions and then each sub- 
section was divided into units and then later they changed the setup 
to congressional districts and each congressional district would have 
assembly district branches and that was the setup at the time I left. 
About that time, too, or just a little earlier than that, an industrial 
section was set up which was for the workers in the industrial districts 
of the city. Then there was a special section for Hollywood and then 
there was a professional section. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you speak of a section for Hollywood, do 
you mean a section in which the talent elements were members or are 
you speaking of trade groups in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. No, sir; the Hollywood District as a geographic dis- 
trict was set up in street units but then they had the units of the prop 
men and various trades and the talent groups in a separate section. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the course of the hearings here in 1952, we 
heard testimony relating to Communist Party membership in units 
such as J-6 or J-5. Wliat did that mean in the form of an or- 
ganizational setup ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. That was the designation of a street unit in Hollywood. 
The J signified the Hollywood subsection. 

JNIr. Tavenner. Do you recall how many J subdivisions there were ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. That again fluctuated, sir. There was J-1, J-2, J-3, 
J-4, J-5, J-6, J-7, J-8, J-9, J-10. That is all I can recall for sure 
right now, but they were not all in force at the same time ; that is, up 
until the last period. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do I understand that they were street sections or 
street units ? 

]Mr. KiMPLE. They were street units ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the section organizer of the Communist 
Party in charge of the J units, do you recall ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes. Mike Shanchig. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name, please ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. It would be phonetic, S-h-a-n-c-h-i-g, I believe. I am 
not sure. Then Arthur Strange was organizer for a short time and 
Davida Franchi became organizer and she held that job for several 
years. 

Mr. Tavenner. D-a-v-i-d-a ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir ; F-r-a-n-c-h-i. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do 5^011 recall who was the organizer in charge of 
the talent groups in Hollywood ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I believe that was Jeff Kibre who started that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what units 
of the Communist Party 3'ou were assigned to by the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. KiMPLE. My first one was unit 32, which T held until the Holly- 
wood section was formed and then when the Hollywood section was 
formed in, I believe, about 1934 I was assigned to unit J-6 and then 
later to unit J-9 and then after I left the units because of work in the 
Communist Party and became a member at large in 1938. A member 
at large is a Communist Party member who is not assigned to functions 
in any given unit. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1745 

Mr. Tavenner. That is the meaning of the term "member at large" ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tamiinner. Did you have any assistance furnished by the police 
department for the work that you were doing within the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. KiivirLE. I did. 

Mr. Tavenker. Who was that individual? 

Mr. Kimple. Clara Osvald, 0-s-v-a-l-d. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she become your wife ? 

Mr. Kimple. She later became my wife ; yes, sir. 

JNIr. Tavenner. Was she employed by the police department? 

Mr. Kimple. She was. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe she is now deceased ? 

Mr. Kimple. She is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what duties 
were assigned you by your police department? What was it you were 
supposed to do in the Communist Party? 

Mr. Kimple. To keep the police department informed to the best 
of my ability of the "who and what and when"' and the "where and the 
why" of the Communist movement and activities. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what duties 
were assigned you by the Communist Party to be carried out in your 
position as assistant to the membership director? 

Mr. Kimple. My duties as the assistant to the membershij^ director 
were to keep the membership records of the Communist Party in order 
to assist in the annual registration of the Communist Party members, 
to assist in the annual issuance of Communist Party membership books, 
to assist in the midyear control of the Communist Party membership 
books. That was an activity taken about the 1st of July to check on 
all Communist Party members to see to it that they were paid up in 
dues and when they were, when their book was inspected and found to 
be paid-up members, then a control card was detached from the mem- 
bership book and sent back to the membership commission. 

Then I, as assistant membership director, would check against the 
records and sliow that they were Communist Party members in good 
standing. I would assist also in transfer of Communist Party mem- 
bers from one unit to another, one section to another; see to it that 
their Communist Party cards were kept in place so that at all times 
we knew where each Communist Party member was and where he was 
functioning and what his duty was supposed to be. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then it would be correct to say that you had in 
your custody or under your control at one time or another the record 
of memberships in the Communist Party in the Los Angeles area ? 

Mr. Kimple. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, how you 
performed the duties assigned to you by your superior in the police 
department in furnishing the information to the police dei^artment ? 

Mr. Kimple. I kept the police department informed at all times to 
the best of my ability of the activities of the Communist Party here 
in Los Angeles. I furnished him all documentary evidence that I 
could possibly secure, I gave written and oral reports on activities, 
and I furnished him copies of the Communist Party membership 
records and, where possible, I furnished him copies of the Communist 
Party membership registration and, where possible, I turned in to him 



1746 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

the Commiinist Party membership books which were picked up at the 
end of the year when the new books were issued, and the old books 
I turned over to him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it supposed to be the practice of the Commu- 
nist Party to destroy the okl books when the new year began ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. My instructions were to destroy the okl books and the 
method I used was to turn them over to the police department. 

Mr. Taveistner. Did you follow that practice w^ith regard to the 
entire membership of the Communist Party during the period that 
you were the membership director? I mean, did you furnish the 
department with the records of membership of all of the members? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you said at the time that you left the party 
in 1939 the number of Communist Party members was 2,880. 

Mr. KiMPLE. I said that that was my recollection of the number at 
the beginning of 1939 when we made the 1939 registration, but there 
was recruiting and I believe it was about 3,000 by the middle of 1939. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Incidentally, you said when you began the work 
in the Communist Party, the membership was 100. 

Mr. KiMPLE. In round figures ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta'st:nner. How quickly was it after you became a member 
that the party grew in substantial numbers ? 

Mr. Ktmple. About 1930, sir, it started growing with great rapidity. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you attribute that to any particular thing? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I would definitely attribute it to the depression; yes, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Coming back to the question of the records, 
you said you had some assistance in this work from another person 
employed by the police department. In what way did she assist you 
in that work ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Well, sir, we worked as a team all the time and she 
was the Los Angeles County dues secretary for the Hollywood sub- 
section, dues secretary at the time she was in the new unit. 

She was also secretary of the Los Angeles County disciplinary 
committee of the Communist Party. And working together we kept 
the police department pretty well informed. 

Mr. Ta\t5Nner. Have you recently been in a position to review the 
reports and records which you and the person whom you later married 
turned over to the police department? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I have, yes, sir; many of them, not all of them. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did you discover the original records which you had 
prepared yourself ? 

Mr. Ki]\rPLE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you discover the reports of the disciplinary 
committee of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Incidentally, did you serve on that committee, too, 
at times, the disciplinary committee? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I Avas an alternate on that committee, yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the purpose of that disciplinary com- 
mittee ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. The disciplinary committee was the committee in the 
Communist Party which acted as a court to enforce Communist Party 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1747 

discipline upon its members. If any person violated the Communist 
Party dictates they were called before the disciplinary committee and 
they were given a hearing and the disciplinary committee then would 
make a finding. 

Mr. Jackson. Did they ever plead the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. In the Communist Party, sir, there is no fifth amend- 
ment and no freedom of speech, either, may I say, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. If they are in this country they still live under the 
United States Constitution. Why don't they plead the fifth amend- 
ment ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Because the chairman of the disciplinary committee 
would not be as lenient as you are, sir. 

Mr. DoYLE. Of course the difference is that the United States Con- 
gress recognizes the right of any American citizen to plead the fifth 
amendment or any other amendment or section of the Constitution, 
if they can do it in good faith and honestly. We are as anxious to 
protect the right as any one because it affects our rights, too. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether a person by the name of 
Virginia Farmer appeared before the disciplinary committee or com- 
mission for any purpose ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir ; she did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the incident well enough to describe 
it to the committee ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Well, it is rather hazy, sir. She was one of a group 
who was in the Federal Theater projects, I believe, one of the relief 
agencies. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say one of a group. Are you speaking of a 
Communist Party group or some other group ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Communist Party group ; yes, sir. And there was dis- 
agreement among the Communist Party fraction in that theater group 
as to the correct activities and behavior of the various Communist 
Party members, and I remember we had a hearing in which she was 
involved, and several others. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the names at this time of any of the 
witnesses that appeared against her in that hearing ? 

Mr. Kimple. I can recall the names of 2 or 3 of the other people who 
were in that hearing. I do not recall just exactly for sure what their 
various functions in there were. Naomi McGenty was one, I believe 
Howland Chamberlin was another, and a young fellow who used to 
be in my unit in Hollywood there, too, Carl Brant was another one. 
That is all I can recall right now. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell us anything else about Carl Brant ? 

Mr. Kimple. Carl Brant was a member of the unit to which I was 
an organizer for a while. He was a young fellow who was in the 
motion-picture industr}-. He was a struggling young actor. That 
was my knowledge of him at the time that he was in the Communist 
Party when I was there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the result of the action against Virginia 
Farmer ? 

Mr. Kimple. I am sorry, sir, I am a little hazy on that. I do not 
recall for sure just what the results of that hearing were. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you from your own recollection know that she 
was a member of the Communist Party ? 



1748 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. KiMPLE. I know for a fact that she was a member of the Com- 
munist Party, yes, sir, because when you came to that hearing you had 
to bring your membership book and give an account to the secretary 
of your standing in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Jackson. I am quite confident that the witness has been ad- 
vised w^ith respect to the introduction of names into the hearing, but 
I should like to have it affirmatively stated in the record that in the 
introduction of names the witness is not to give the name of any indi- 
vidual of whose membership he does not have personal knowledge, 
either from attendance in meetings of the Communist Party, by virtue 
of personal knowledge of Communist membership cards or the pres- 
ence of the name on a membership list — that is, some positive means of 
further identification beyond that of the name itself. You under- 
stand that? 

Mr. I\JMPLE. May I ask one question along that line ? Does attend- 
ance to closed Communist Party membership meetings constitute that? 

Mr. Jackson. That I would say would be the No. 1 method of 
identification. 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir ; I understand that very well. 

Mr. Jackson. I thought that should be in the record. 

Mr. KiMPLE. I understand that clearly. 

Mr. DoTLE. I am sure our legal counsel has stated the same thing 
to you. 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have now located a notice in handwriting relating 
to the disciplinary hearing which we have mentioned. I desire to 
hand it to the witness and ask him to refresh his recollection as to the 
result of the hearing of Virginia Farmer. 

Before doing so, I want to ask you whether you recognize the hand- 
written notes which have been presented to you ? 

Mr. IviMPLE. Yes, sir ; those are the handwritten notes of my former 
wife. From the notes here I see she was censured. 

Mr. Tavenner. She was not expelled from the Communist Party 
but was censured ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Not from this hearing ; no, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think the record should show 
that Virginia Farmer was subpenaed as a witness here in one of the 
early hearings in Los Angeles and refused to testify about her knowl- 
edge of Communist Party activities, relying on the fifth amendment. 
Do you recall the nature of the complaint against her? I think I 
should read, out of fairness to her, what is said about her activity. 
This is a charge made by Franchi — 

WPA unit made up of all WPA workers on cultural projects, Farmer made 
certain decisions. Meanwhile it came to our attention that a plan had been 
laid down by Virginia Farmer aided by a man representing himself as repre- 
sentative of CEC. Virginia Farmer did not consult FR — 

which presumably means the Franchi woman. 
Mr, KiMPLE. No ; Fred Franchi. 
Mr. Tavenner (reading) : 

At any time, acted individualistic. Her plan did irreparable damage to the unit. 

As I understand, the decision was that she was censured for the 
action that she took, but not expelled. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF,, AREA 1749 

Mr. Jackson. Isn't giving information like that usually referred 
to by the Communists as being a stoolpigeon ? It is if it is a Govern- 
ment witness passing on tidbits of information, especially the serious 
crime of being an individualist. That is a very serious matter, is it 
not, being an individualist within the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Ejemple. Yes, sir ; that is true. 

She was a definite individualist. 

Mr. ScHERER. She only was suspended ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir; suspension means she is given certain tasks 
to perform and she must abide by the decisions for a given length of 
time. 

Mr. ScHERER. Placed on sort of probation. 

Mr. KiMFLE. Yes, sir ; on probation. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you personally acquainted with a man named 
Matt Pelman ? 

Mr. Kimple. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you what appears to be 2 original Com- 
munist Party books and 2 other documents, and I will ask you to 
identify them and state what they are and also to explain the docu- 
ments to the committee. 

Mr. Kimple. Well, sir, two 3 by 5 filing cards are the filing cards 
which the membership department of the Communist Party in Los 
Angeles kept their membership records. One of these cards was kept 
for each Conmiunist Party member with the information on it as was 
taken from either his blank that he signed when he joined the Com- 
munist Party or from the annual registration. 

This one blank here which says — 
Matt Pelman, Los Angeles, transfer YCL, c — M Mill — 

shows me Matt Pelman was transferred from the Young Communist 
League to the mill unit of the Good Year subsection. The next card 
shows me he was a member in the Good Year subsection, his Com- 
munist Party membership book is in the upper left-hand corner and 
the date that he joined the Communist Party is in the upper right- 
hand corner with the word "millmen" in the center which means that 
he Avas in that unit. His real name, ]\Iatt Pelman, party name is the 
same, address 224 South Spring Street, which was tlie Communist 
Party headquarters, sir. His occupation was cabinetmaker. He was 
a member of the United Brotherhood of Masons and Carpenters, I 
believe it is, local 884 of the AFL, also a member of the Young Com- 
munist League. He was born in the United States of America in 1910 
and the word "by" there was put in in cases when we knew who re- 
cruited them, we put that on but that is not on there. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. "Wliat was the date of his joining 'he Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Kimple. This says 1928, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is tliat the date of the card, or is it 

Mr. Kimple. That is the date of his joining. This next book is the 
1937 Communist Party membership book issued to Matt Pelman with 
the book No. 75471, which, may I add, is the number in the upper 
left-hand corner of the filing card. The State of California and county 
of Los Angeles, city of Los Angeles, district 13, Good Year section. 
This book was issued on the 22d day of December 1936 with the Com- 
munist Par-ty seal and the signature William Schneiderman on here. 



1750 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

That signature William Schneiderman is in the handwriting of my 
former wife. She was instructed by the Communist Party executive 
committee here in Los Angeles to sign the Communist Party member- 
ship books for the year 1937. 

On the following pages are the Communist Party dues stamps show- 
ing he paid 10 cents a month for the first half of the year, including 
his international solidarity stamp of the same denomination. That 
international solidarity stamp was an assessment that was levied 
against the Communist Party members every 4 months and the money 
collected was to go to aid the Communist Party in other countries of 
the world. 

It shows that his book was checked in midyear and the midyear 
control stamp was placed there. The July, August, September, Octo- 
ber, and November dues stamps are in place. The second international 
solidarity stamp is missing. The last international solidarity stamp 
and the December dues stamp are missing but an "O. K. 10 cents" 
pencil written note is there. That is a practice which dues secretary 
frequently used in the case of where they did not have a dues stamp 
to put in at the time the Communist Party member paid his dues. And 
a stamp was issued for that dime. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to introduce those four docu- 
ments in evidence. 

Mr. KiMPLE. There is one more. 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me. 

Mr. KiMPLE. Two more. The next is a 1938 Communist Party 
membership book No. 60958 made out to Matt Pelman, California, 
district 13, city Los Angeles, section Youth, unit Youth; book was 
issued on the 1st day of December 1937, with a Communist Party 
stamp and William Schneiderman's name stamped in with a rubber 
stamp. 

Again the dues stamps for the first half of the year is 10 cents, and 
the international solidarity stamp and the midyear control stamp are 
in place. 

The last half of the year 1938 penciled notation "Pd." meaning paid 
was marked in all the places for dues stamps. 

Also in the back pages is the assessment for the 10th convention of 
the Communist Party. 

(Representative Scherer left the hearing room.) 

Mr. KiMPLE. The next is 1939 Communist Party membership card 
receipt. This little blue receipt is the first page inside the Communist 
Party membership book when it is issued to the Communist Party 
member. As he receives tlie membership book he is supposed to sign 
the receipt card saying that he has received the membership book. 
Then the receipt card is detached from the book, the book given to the 
Communist Party member and the receipt card goes back to the mem- 
bership department. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the five documents in evidence and 
ask that they be marked "Kimple Exhibits 5, 6, 7 and 8 and 9," respec- 
tively, for identification only. 

Mr. Doyle. They will be so received and so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you personally acquainted with Max Nata- 
poff ? 

Mr. Kimple. I was. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1751 

Mr, Tavenner. I hand you three documents and I will ask you to 
identify them and explain them. The spelling is N-a-t-a-p-o-f-f. 

Mr. KiMPLE. The hrst I have here is a 3 by 5 filing card which 
was the Communist Party membership record of Max Natapoff, the 
address 900 North Hazard Street with the Party name of Mac Roth, 
R-o-t-h. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does both his true name and party name appear 
on the card ? 

Mr, Kimple. It does here, yes, sir. However, may I add that to 
my knowledge that was not his correct party name. His correct 
party name was Max Roth. That was in later years. I see here this 
other card verifies my statement. He was listed as a technician and 
the mass organization to which he was assigned was the ILD, which 
is the International Labor Defense. There are three book numbers 
on here which are his Communist Party membership book, shows he 
was assigned to B-11, that would be the Boyle Heights section which 
is the east side section of the Communist Party here in Los Angeles. 

And he joined the Communist Party in the 9th month, 23d day, 
year 1933, shows he was Jewish, age 27, shows he paid 60 cents for 
his initiation. 

Mr. Moulder. May I suggest that these exhibits could be referred 
to by counsel in such a way as they could be identified and offered 
in the record at length so as to expedite proceedings without the wit- 
ness reading them all ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. I will do that with the next one. 

Mr. Kimple. Do you wish me to go on explaining this one ? 

Mr. Tavenner. If it is satisfactory to complete this one, 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. 

Mr. Kimple. The next is a 3 by 5 filing card which was the Com- 
munist Party membership record of Max Natapoff, showing his 1937 
Communist Party membership book number, showing that he was 
assigned to the east side section unit B-1, which is the Boyle Heights 
area, as I said a moment ago, showed he joined the Communist Party 
in 1932, real name Max Natapoff, party name Max Roth, address 
900 North Hazard Street, a laboratory technician, a member of the 
hospital workers union No. 19986 of the AFL. He was assigned to 
the International Labor Defense as a mass organizer, and was born 
in the United States of America in 1905. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not he held a position 
in his union? 

Mr. Kimple. That I do not know, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Kimple. The next is a 1938 Communist Party membership 
book receipt card made out to Max Roth, State of California, Los 
Angeles, Los Angeles City, east side section unit 1, on the 9th day 
of December 1937, signed Max Roth. 

Mr, Tavenner. I desire to offer the three documents in evidence 
and ask that they be marked "Kimple Exhibits 10, 11, and 12" re- 
spectively, for identification only. 

Mr, Doyle. They will be so received and so marked. 

Mr. Moulder. Would you recognize or know any of the individuals 
you have referred to in your testimony and whose membership cards 
you have identified ? 



1752 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. I can recognize Mr. Natapoff . 

Mr. Moulder. As I understand, they all have been subpenaed as 
witnesses here ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Those two have. 

Mr. KiMPLE. I have seen Mr. Natapoff in this room since the hear- 
ing started. 

Mr. Jackson. May I ask a question? Subsequent to your leaving 
the Communist Party, have you from time to time, as might con- 
ceivably be the case, discussed the Communist Party with others whom 
you knew during their period in the Communist Party and who them- 
selves left for one reason or another ? 

Mr. KiMPLE, Yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson". In general relating this to the operations as you have 
described them, the structural organization of the party, is there any 
consideration given aside from the movement underground, are there 
any substantial changes in tactics or procedures which you have dis- 
cussed with others, which varied from your own experience, if you re- 
call at the moment ? There are no more membership cards, I presume ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I have not had opportunity to discuss the activities of 
the Communist Party in late j^ears with anyone. All those whom I 
knew that I have talked with since were also in the party at the time 
I was and we are in complete accord on the activities of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. jACKSOiSr. Thank you. 

(Representative Scherer returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to present one other 
card here for the witness to identify. 

Mr. Doyle. Very well, proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you personally acquainted with Tashia Freed ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a card and ask you to identify it. 

Before doing so, do you know whether or not she was a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. She was. She was a functionary in the Hollywood sec- 
tion of the Communist Party at the time I was in there. 

Mr. Doyle. How do you know that ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I have sat in many closed Communist Party function- 
ary meetings with her, I have been in closed Communist Party meet- 
ings in her home, I have sold her Communist Party membership dues 
stamps. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. 

Mr, KiMPLE. This, sir, is a transfer card, transferring a Communist 
Party member from one unit to another as was the policy in the Com- 
munist Party in the late thirties. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that an original document ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Proceed in your description of it. 

Mr. KiMPLE. This shows that the Communist Party member by the 
right name of Anne Pollock, party name Anne Burton, of 6530 Mary- 
land Drive, transferred from the Hollywood section unit J-5 to the 
57th assembly district branch, showing that the Communist Party 
member and Pollock's dues were paid up to January 1938 and was 
assigned by Tashia Freed, the unit membership director. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1753 

Mr. Tavenner. Is it signed in handwriting ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask 
thai it be marked "Kimple No. 13" for identification only. 

Mr. Doyle. So received and so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Mary Aidlin ? 

Mr. Kimple. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was her name prior to marriage ? 

Mr. Kimple. Mary Kaiden. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Was she known to you to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Kimple. She was. 

Mr. Tavenner. On what do you base your knowledge ? 

Mr. Kimple. She was a functionary in the Hollywood section of the 
Communist Party in Los Angeles. I attended many functionary meet- 
ings which were closed to Communist Party functionaries only with 
her, I have been to her home and sold her Communist Party dues 
stamps. She was a Communist Party dues secretary at the unit level 
for a while. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know her husband's name ? 

Mr. Kimple. Joseph Aidlin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee what Communist Party 
information you have with regard to him, if any ? 

Mr. Kimple. I have sat in on 1 or 2 Communist Party meetings in 
their home which was on Randall Court in Los Angeles, at which he 
was present, 

]\Ir. Tavenner. When who was present ? 

Mr. Kimple, Joseph Aidlin and Mary Raiden and we knew her as 
Mary Eaiden in the Communist Party, sir, always referred to her by 
that name. And then later, about 1938, I believe, or maybe 1939, I 
saw Joseph Aidlin's membership record in the professional section of 
the Communist Party. That is about the extent of the knowledge I 
have of his activities. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the approximate date of the records that 
you referred to as showing that he was a member of a professional 
cell or group of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kimple. My best recollection, sir, is about 1938. 

Mr. DoTLE. May I ask, these meetings at their homes, were there 
any persons in that room who were not Communists to your personal 
knowledge ? 

Mr. Kimple. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was every person there, including Mr. Aidlin, to 
your personal knowledge a member of the Communist Party ? May I 
ask it this way : Was that a closed meeting ? 

Mr. Kimple. That was a closed meeting, yes, sir. 

Mr. Tav-enner. Will you tell us whether or not Mr. Aidlin took any 
part in the meetings, if you can recall ? 

Mr. Kimple. I recall his presence, sir, but I don't recall now whether 
he took any part. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know who owned the property in which the 
meetings were held which you referred to ? 

Mr. Kimple. I do not know Avho owned that property, no, sir. It 
was just a little short street about one block long, dead end, in back of 



1754 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Kalph's grocery store on Santa Monica and Vermont. The street 
entered in from Santa Monica to the north. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Harold Ashe ? 

Mr. IviMPLE. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Harold Ashe had ever lived 
at that same address ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. He lived in that court, sir. I am not positive it was the 
same house, but he lived in that same area. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been able to find from records that Mr. 
Wheeler, the investigator, gave you to examine any record of member- 
ship of Joseph Aidlin in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I do not believe I saw any cards or documentary evi- 
dence pertaining to his membership. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you find cards relating to the membership of his 
wife, known to you as Mary Raiden? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me discuss whether or not you were personally 
acquainted with James Burf ord. 

Mr. KiMPLE. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not he was a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir ; he was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I wanted to comply with the sugges- 
tion of a member that I read the material to the witness on these cards 
but I am afraid I may misdescribe them because I am not fully 
familiar with the meaning of the things I see on them. I should let 
the witness describe them rather than attempt to do it myself. 

Mr. Doyle. Very well, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you three documents and ask you to state 
what they are, please, and describe them. 

Mr. Doyle. Under the circumstances, you can't comply with the 
valuable suggestion Mr. Moulder made. 

Mr. Tavenner. I wish I could, but I am afraid I would make a mis- 
take about it. 

Mr. KiMPLE. One is a transfer card written in pencil, handwriting, 
shows that Ron Hillyer (Burf ord) transferred from Oakland 6-24-35, 
Holly. That is a note from the membership department showing that 
Ron Hillyer, which was the Communist Party membership name for 
Jim Burford, that he had transferred into Los Angeles from Oakland 
and had been assigned to the Hollywood section. 

The next is a Communist Party membership record, a 3 by 5 filing 
card showing real name Jim Burford, party name Hillyer, occupation 
office worker, member of the Office Workers Union Local No. 15251, 
born in 1910, with Communist Party membership book numbers on it, 
and a note Hollywood, meaning Hollywood section, and penciled 
under, "Industrial," meaning he transferred from the Hollywood to 
the industrial section. 

Next is a Communist membership book receipt card for the year 
1938 in the name of Ron Hillyer, signed in pen, section Hollywood. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the three documents in evidence and 
ask they be marked "Kimple Exhibits 14, 15, and 16" respectively for 
identification only. 

Mr. Doyle. They will be received and so marked. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1755 

Mr. Moulder. Did you have custody of those cards you have identi- 
fied? 

Mr. KiMPLE. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have they been in your possession since that period 
of time? 

Mr. Kimple. In my possession just for purposes of identification. 
I have not kept them all these years if that is what you mean. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Kimple. No, sir. They were in the hands of the police depart- 
ment, 

Mr. Tavenner. They are the same as you had when they were in 
your custody? 

Mr. Kimple. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Tavenner. What means did the Communist Party use to raise 
funds necessary to advance its projects and pay its operating expenses ? 

Mr. Kimple. From the sale of Communist Party dues stamps, a cer- 
tain percentage was kept by the unit, a certain percentage was kept 
by the section, and a certain percentage was kept by the district and 
the balance sent to the national office. 

There were public meetings held at which admission was charged, 
there were financial contributions, and various drives to finance special 
drives, special activities. Those are some. 

Mr. Tavenner, Did you receive substantial contributions from time 
to time? 

Mr. Kimple. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall any substantial contributions that 
were made by persons that you knew to be members of the Communist 
Party? Now if they were made by persons you did not know to be 
members of the Communist Party we do not want to hear it in open 
session. 

Mr. Moulder. You mean, Mr. Tavenner, that you wouldn't want 
to hear in open session contributions made to the Communist Party 

Mr. Tavenner. By a person that he did not know to be a member of 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Moulder. I think any one who makes a contribution 

Mr, Jackson. If a contribution is knowingly made to the Commu- 
nists it would be entirely proper. 

Mr. Doyle, If there is evidence that the contributor knew that he 
was actually putting it into the Communist Party. 

Mr, Tavenner, That is the point exactly, and if we have not had an 
opportunity to make some type of investigation, I wanted that privi- 
lege before making it public, 

Mr, Jackson, The point is if the witness approached Mr, A and 
said "We want a contribution for the Communist Party," and Mr, A 
gave it to him, with that Imowledge, it should be read into the record, 

Mr, Tavenner, I agree, 

Mr, Kimple. I recall that there were financial contributions made 
to the Communist Party through my wife and I in the amount of $50 
by Tess Schlesinger each month for several months and the man she 
married, Mr. Davis, whose first name has slipped my mind. He is a 
motion-picture cutter, I believe. He was a very highly paid technician 
in the motion-picture industry at the time. He also gave us a pink slip 
to a Ford automobile, which was turned over to the Communist Party 
for the Communist Party's use and he contributed a hundred dollars 



1756 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

for 2 or 3 or 4 months, and then upped it to $500 a month and then that 
went on for 2 or 3 months and then we were relieved of the assignment 
of collecting their money and somebody else took it up. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did those individuals know the purpose for which 
the money was being given ? That is, that it was for the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. Who was this individual ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Mr. Davis and Miss Schlesinger. 

Mr. Moulder. Five hundred dollars a month, you say ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. By Mr. Davis. 

Mr. Moulder. Who w^as Mr. Davis ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. He was a film cutter, I believe, a technician in the in- 
dustry, and as I recall, he was supposed to have been one of the best 
in that field at that time. 

Mr. Doyle. What year was that, approximately ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. That I believe was about 1933, 1 believe it was a 1932 
Ford V-8 that he gave and so it followed right after that so it would 
have been 1933. 

Mr. Moulder. My question was directed to what year did he give 
you that money, from one to five hundred dollars a month. 

Mr. KiMPLE. That, as I say, follows from the fact that I remember 
it was a 1932 Ford and it was right after that, so it would have been 
1933. 

Mr. Moulder. You stated in answer to ]\Ir. Tavenner's question 
Mr. Davis knew where this Ford was going, that it w-as going to the 
Communist Party and that this money he gave you and your wife was 
going to the Communist Party. How did he know that ? On what 
do you base your statement that he knew the Ford was going to the 
benefit of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Well, w^e were introduced to him as Communist Party 
members and he was introduced to us as a Communist Party member 
and he was informed that we were authorized by the Communist Party 
to take up his contribution and that we were to turn it in to the organ- 
izer of the Communist Party here in Los Angeles, which we did. 

Mr. Doyle. All right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the circumstances under which he gave 
the Ford to you? Why did he make a contribution of the Ford 
car ? Was there anything about that that might help to identify him 
or where he was ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. About that time he was leaving for Soviet Russia. He 
was going to go to Soviet Russia to get firsthand information, to see 
for himself what conditions were like in the Soviet Union, and he and 
Nora Helgren and one other made that trip. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Nora Helgren ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Very well. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Was she a person known to you to be a member of 
the Communist Party ? 
Mr. IviMPLE. She was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you seen him since that occasion, this man, 
Davis? ' 

Mr. Kjmple. Not to my knowledge. 



I 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1757 

Mr. Tavenner. You say you are unable to recall his first name. I 
think I could refresh your recollection about it but I want to be certain 
to see whether you can do it without any aid or refreshing first. 

Mr. KiMPLE. I believe his name, sir, was the same as the name of 
this professor who testified here a day or so ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. But he was not the same man as the professor ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. Not the same man. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall what the professor's name was ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. No, sir ; it slipped my mind. 

Mr. Tavenner, Was the name Frank ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. That sounds familiar. 

Mr. Tavenner. At any rate, the description that you have given of 
that individual is definite enough that the committee can certainly 
ascertain who the person was that you have identified. 

Mr. Doyle. You just said that Miss Helgren was known to you to 
be a Communist. On what do you base that statement ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. She was in the unit of the Communist Party to which 
I was the organizer, sir. She was a Communist Party member who 
had been entrusted with many Communist Party assignments. She 
had been in the Soviet Union and had been the secretary to Molotov 
or Litvinof. Litvinof, I believe, and she was on the Ford Peace 
Ship which went over to Sweden at the end of the First AVorld War 
and there she met a young man by the name of George Helgren, she 
married him, and the two of them were in the Soviet Union and while 
they were in the Soviet Union they had their clothes stolen and didn't 
have shoes to wear for a while, and then the Communist Party sent 
them to Germany and they were working in Germany. One of them, I 
believe it was George Helgren, was in an office where United States 
mail pouches were being received with diplomatic mail and her con- 
fessions to me were that they used those mail pouches for furthering 
Communist Party messages and intercepting Communist Party mes- 
sages, and they came to this country and he was employed by the Fox 
Motion Picture Studios in the credit union and there he distributed 
considerable Communist Party literature at the bidding of the Com- 
munist Party although at that time he himself was not a Communist 
Party member, but she was. 

Mr. Doyle. That is a pretty picture. I mean without the shoes. 

Mr. Jackson. This is perhaps not apropos, but there were several 
Members of Congress who lost their trousers traveling through Spain. 
It is nice to know Communists and Fascists have something additional 
in common. Neither is above stealing your pants. 

Mr. Tavenner. I should advise you, Mr. Chairman, an investiga- 
tion by the staff has shown that this man at the time of the occurrence 
related, this man Davis, was a producer rather than a cutter. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you want a recess ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Before the committee recesses, I think it is appropriate 
for me to say at this time, that this Los Angeles police officer, for 20 
years in the field of intelligence before he retired, has named several 
individuals and has undertaken to identify them. He certainly has 
named them and given an identification record. I want to say for the 
press and for you folks present that we have a standing rule, and 
invitation, and I am giving it now, that if any of these people who have 
been named during this hearing as a Communist wants to come 
forward under oath, like the witness that has identified them, or any 



1758 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

witness who has identified them, they are welcome to come to this 
committee and say whatever they may want to say. That is our stand- 
ing procedure and I am making it clear now. 

Mr. Jackson. You mean in denial or affirmation and to to say 
whatever they want to say propagandawise. 

Mr. Doyle. I stand corrected. Either in denial or affirmation or 
explanation. That is our standing procedure and I am making it clear 
now so that if any person named before this committee either today, 
yesterday, or the day before or tomorrow is named, they are invited to 
come promptly and put themselves under oath like the witness who 
named them and deny or affirm or explain, but not make a speech. 
We believe that is fair. 

We will stand in recess for 5 minutes. 

(Brief recess.) 

]kr. Doyle. Are you ready, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kimple, I feel certain that you have made it 
perfectly plain in your testimony that the individual identified by 
you as Frank Davis and the one who made the contribution of the 
Ford car and substantial sums of money to the Communist Party was 
not the same person as the witness who appeared here yesterday by 
the name of Dr. Frank Cornelius Davis. 

Mr. Kimple. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I just wanted to be certain there could be no mis- 
understanding. 

Mr. Kimple. They are not the same, no, sir. 

Mr. Ta\^enner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Moulder ? 

Mr. Moulder. No, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. I have no questions. May I make a brief statement? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. I should like to express my thanks to the witness. 
It is by virtue of informed testimony such as his that it has been 
possible to piece together across the years the nature and the extent 
and the objectives of the Communist Party in the United States. Of 
course, as anyone who serves on this committee is automatically a heel 
in the eyes of the comrades, your future status will unquestionably be 
that of a stool pigeon. 

Mr. Kimple. I have been so labeled many times. 

Mr. Jackson. However, I feel that that will reflect a very small 
vocal minority viewpoint and that by and large the people of the city 
of Los Angeles, Calif., in general, and of the Nation, owe to you and 
other people who have been willing to take on assignments of this 
kind in the line of official duty, separating yourself in large part, as I 
know you must have, from family associations, social, things you 
would much have preferred to do, a debt of gratitude. As one member 
of the committee — and I am sure that I express the sentiments of all of 
us, and of all our colleagues in the House of Representatives — I should 
like to express my appreciation for your testimony today. 

Mr. Kimple. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. I certainly would like to endorse everything Mr. 
Jackson has said. 

Mr. Kimple. Thank you. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1759 

Mr. D0Y1.E. I join in that, too. I do wish to refer beick to Kimple 
Exhibit No. 1 and ask Mr. Kimple one question about it. That, Mr. 
Kimple, was the Exhibit 1, entitled "Discussion Outline: Work 
in the Armed Forces," and I will only refer to subdivision (e) thereof, 
this typewritten outline which you identified as a discussion course 
used in Los Angeles when you were a phony member of the Commu- 
nist Party, as an intelligence officer for the Los Angeles Police 
Department for 11 years. 

Let me read you just a section of this to remind you, and then I 
want to ask you a question : 

(e) Potential revolutionary role of Armed Forces. — (1) armed uprising of 
workers must have support of armed forces; (2) workers must win support of 
soldiers and National Guard for all strikes and demonstrations. (Example: 
Petrograd garrison of 110,000 men revolted and joined workers demonstrations 
on first day of February Revolution 1917, Potemkin, revolt of sailors in Revolu- 
tion of 1905.) 

Now that, together with other documents that you have produced 
as original records of the Communist Party in Los Angeles in those 
years, refers to armed revolution, armed uprising against constituted 
authorities and the winning of armed support for the Communist pro- 
gram by trying to win over the American military, isn't that true? 

Mr. Kimple. That's true ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Was this the year 1934 ? 

Mr. Kimple. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. That is quite a few years back. 

Mr. Kimple. May I make a supplement there, sir, that we were 
told as early as 1928, to my knowledge, that this was the aims and 
purposes of the Communist Party and the necessary procedure for a 
successful revolution. So it had been going on for at least 6 years 
prior to that document. 

Mr. Doyle. All right. You left the Communist Party in what 
year ? 

Mr. Kimple. 1939. 

Mr. Doyle. In Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Kimple. Yes, sir. 

Mr. D0Y1.E. At any time prior to 1939 when you left the Communist 
Party, as a Los Angeles Police Department intelligence officer, were 
you ever told by any Communist functionary superior to you that 
this line of armed force revolution was changed and was no longer the 
policy of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kimple. No, sir. I was never told and I never saw in print that 
that policy was changed. It was always advocated as a necessary step 
to a successful revolution. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. 

Mr. Jackson. May I ask one last question ? 

Mr. Doyle. Go ahead, Mr. Jackson. 

Mr. Jackson. I had not conferred with counsel on the extent of 
your testimony, Mr. Kimple. I assumed that because of time limita- 
tions we have not gone into all of the matters which are within the 
purview of the committee at this open hearing. I believe you have 
given the committee the names of 10 or 12 persons known to you to have 
been members of the Communist Party. 

Are you in a position to give the committee additional names ? 



1760 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. KiMPLE. I am in the position, sir, to positively identify the Com- 
munist Party membership of close to a thousand people. 

Mr. Jackson. A thousand people ? 

Mr. KiMPLE. In Los Angeles, yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Is the committee in possession of that information? 

Mr. KiMPLE. They are. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Doyle. One more question. In view of my question to you, Mr. 
Kimple, I just want to make a brief observation here. I think it was 
after you left the party, because I believe it was about 1945 that Mr. 
Earl Browder was ejected from leadership in the Communist Party in 
this country, one reason among others according to the record, because 
he preached and advocated and wrote that it was possible for the 
Soviet Communist theory and the capitalistic system theory of the 
United States of America to get along in the same world. That was 
April 1044 or 1945. 

Then Mr. William Foster was put in. 

I have come to feel that very likely a good many American 
citizens got into the Communist Party when we were allies of Russia 
and prior to the time of the Duclos letter, which came to this country, 
April 1945. My colleagues have heard me say often that I make 
allowance in my own thinking of a year or 2 or 3 sometimes for 
thinking Americans to see daylight and to have gotten out of the Com- 
munist Party after 1 or 2 or 3 years from April 1945, if they needed 
tliat long, if they were nonreaders or not with a source of information ; 
but for the life of me, I cannot understand how any patriotic Ameri- 
can citizen after the Duclos letter and after about April 1946, 1947, 
could have stayed in the Communist Party, because the lines were 
drawn in April 1945 very clearly. They stayed in the Communist 
Party with their eyes open for some reason if they did stay. 

Mr. Jackson. Will the chairman yield ? 

I think another very definitive line was drawn last year in the Con- 
gress of tlie United States wdien the Communist Party was outlawed. 
It is no longer now a matter of simply belonging to some cloak and dag- 
ger outfit wliere you can go around with a different name and meet 
your cohorts in an alley or back room. It is now membership in a 
proscribed organization under the laws of the United States of 
America. 

That even more I think, Mr. Chairman, than the Duclos letter, 
even more than any of the other milestones or the war in Korea, is the 
significant thing which should impress itself upon any law-abiding 
citizen of this country. 

Mr. Doyle. But Mr. Jackson, as long as we are speaking a minute 
for the record and by way of informing our colleagues at Wash- 
ington what has occurred here, certainly it is clear in my book 
that there may have been many hundreds of American citizens — I 
want to repeat it — who went into the Communist Party in the inter- 
est of world friendship and such other factors and as a matter of 
philosophical research; and how in God's name any adult desiring 
to be a patriotic American could have stayed in the party after the date 
I have indicated, I do not understand. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1761 

Furthermore, I do not now understand how any patriotic Ameri- 
can who desires to help his country more than to protect those who 
are still in the Communist Party or w^ere conspirators, and who went 
into the party under misguidance or misinformation or mistake, can 
come and plead tlie first and fifth amendments. I just have not seen it, 
and I do not understand it now, how they can claim those amendments 
if they went into the party, as I have stated, prior to April 1944 and 
1945 and did not get out. 

Let us proceed. Are you through with Mr. Kimple for this time ? 

Mr. TavejsNer. Mr. Chairman, I think it would be well to con- 
tinue this witness under his subpena, and I so recommend. 

Mr. Doyle. I will direct, Mr. Kimj)le, that you are under the sub- 
pena. That's rather powerful and will give you all the protection 
you need, I think, if you need any, so that you won't be interfered 
with. You will continue definitely and clearly under the subpena 
of this committee of the Congress of the United States until further 
ordered. 

Mr. Kimple. Thank you. 

Mr. Doyle. I have joined already with my colleagues in express- 
ing appreciation. 

Mr. Kimple. I thank you all. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to call Mr. Max Benjamin Natapoff. 

Mr. Doyle. Will you be sworn ? 

Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and noth- 
ing but the truth, so help you God ^ 

Mr. Natapoff. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MAX BENJAMIN NATAPOFF, ACCOMPANIED BY 
COUNSEL, ROBERT KENNY 

Mr. Kenny. Mr. Chairman, I might want to address myself to 
the physical condition of Mr. Natapofi'. He is not too ill to appear, 
but he has been off of his employment for the last 2 months and his 
doctor has urged me to ask that his questions be confined; he can 
answer, but not a prolonged thing. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Mr. Kenny. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, sir. 

Mr. Natapoff. Max Natapoff. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel. 
Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Kenny. Robert Kenny, Los Angeles. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. When and where were you born, Mr. Natapoff? 

Mr. Natapoff. I was born in the city of New York, State of New 
York, November 5, 1906. 

Mr. Ta^T5Nner. How long have you resided in California ? 

Mr. Natapoff. Since 1927. 

IMr. Tavenner. Wliat is your profession or business or trade ? 

Mr. Natapoff. At the present time, for the last 2 days, I am unem- 
ployed, having lost my job 2 days after I was served a subpena by 
this committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was your position at that time ? 
^ Mr. Natapoff. At the time I was working I was a survevor working 
for the county of Los Angeles. 



1762 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of an oath and affi- 
davit and ask whether it was presented to you as a county employee 
and whether or not you refused to sign it as indicated by the stamp 
on the first page, the language of which — will you examine this, Mr. 
Wheeler ? What is that language ? 

Mr. Natapoff. I must decline 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a minute. 

Mr. Wheeler. "Refused to sign form." 

Mr. Tavenner. Which is stamped, "Refused to sign form" ? 

Mr. Natapoff. I must also refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you wish to state any grounds for refusal ? 

Mr. Natapoff. I refuse on the grounds of the first amendment sup- 
plemented by the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. ScHERER. May I interrupt ? Did your refusal to sign that form 
have anything to do with the loss of your job ? 

Mr. Natapoff. I must again refuse to answer that question for the 
same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you advised by the Communist Party or any 
Communist Party functionary not to execute that oath ? 

Mr. Natapoff. That question is in the same area, and I refuse to 
answer that question for the same reasons on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. At a later date did you change your mind and in 
fact on the 29th day of April 1948 execute a similar oath ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Natapoff. Do you want me to look at this before I answer ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, I think you should look at it to see whether 
you signed it. A signature is on the last page. I withdraw my ques- 
tion and place it in another way. 

AVill you examine the document which I hand you and state whether 
or not the signature appearing on the last page was made by you? 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Natapoff. I must refuse to answer that question for the same 
reasons, same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask 
that it be marked "Natapoff Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Doyle. AVhat about the first affidavit which was not signed? 
You have not offered that yet. 

Mr. Tavenner. I change the marking and offer the first exhibit 
presented as an exhibit and ask that it be marked "Natapoff Exhibit 
No. 1" and the latter marked "No. 2," for identification only. 

Mr. Doyle. As to Exhibit No. 1, it has been handed me, and across 
the face of it in rubber stamp is "Refused to sign form," and as I read 
it, I recognize it quickly as the oath that the person to whom it is 
submitted has never been or is not now a member since December 7, 
1941, of any political party or organization that advocates the over- 
throw of the Government of the United States or the State of Califor- 
nia or the comity of Los Angeles by force and violence. That is the 
affidavit that the witness refused to sign. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on the 
29th day of April 1948, the date of the signed oath ? 

Mr. Natapoff. It must be evident that by this time I refuse to 
answer any question of this nature on the grounds of the first amend- 
ment supplemented by the fifth amendment. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1763 

Mr. Tavenner. Do I understand that you are refusing then ? 

Mr. Natapoff. I am refusing. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you Kimple Exhibit No. 12 and ask you to 
examine it and state whether or not it is a receipt signed and delivered 
by you ? 

Mr. Natapoff. Do I have to touch it ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Not if you can see it otherwise. 

Mr. Natapoff. What is the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you this : Have you touched it before ? 

Mr. Natapoff. I would not know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was not your Connnunist Party name Roth? 

Mr. Natapoff. I refuse to answer that question for the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the document and state whether 
you have ever seen it before ? 

Mr. Natapoff. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons, 
same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on 
December 9, 1937 ? 

Mr. Natapoff. Before I answer, I just want to say that remark I 
made previously about touching that card. I did not want to toucli 
it after a certain individual had handled it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Possibly it Avas just as obnoxious for him to touch it 
in the first place after he oljtained it. 

Mr. ScHERER. Obviously he is referring to Kimple. I have a ques- 
tion. Was anything that Officer Kimple said about you untrue? 

Mr. Natapoff. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. ScHERER. The fact is that everything he said was true, isn't it? 

Mr. Natapoff. Are you asking me a question ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes. 

Mr. Natapoff. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. ScHERER. Who do you think we are going to believe, Witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not certain that you understand the question 
that I asked you as to whether or not you were a member of the Com- 
numist Party on the 9th day of December 1937. 

Mr. Natapoff. I refuse to answer any question in this area for the 
same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now? 

Mr. Natapoff. I refuse to answer that question, same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Moulder? 

Mr. Moulder. No. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Jackson? 

Mr. Jackson. No. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. No. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Mr. Kenny and witness. You are excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Tashia Freed. 

Mr. Jackson. May I direct a question to the clerk of the committee ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Did the previous witness use the same pen? 

The Clerk. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. There was no hesitation in signing the voucher. 



1764 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Doyle, Will you raise your right hand? Do you solemnly 
swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God? 

Mrs. Freed. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. TASHIA FEEED, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 
COUNSEL, MRS. VAINO SPENCER 

Mr. Tavenner, Will you state your name, please? 

Mrs. Freed. Tashia Freed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you accompanied by counsel? 

Mrs. Freed. Very able counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify herself for the record ? 

Mrs. Spencer. Mrs. Vaino Spencer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a native of California, Mrs. Freed? 

Mrs. Freed. I am a citizen by derivation. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere were you born? 

Mrs. Freed. In Eussia. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to this country? 

Mrs. Freed. 1918. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you naturalized and where. 

Mrs. Freed. In Los Angeles in 1921. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVliat is your occupation? 

Mrs. Freed. I give service in a small variety store, 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
formal educational training has been ? 

Mrs. Freed. Grammar school and high school. 

Mr. Tavenner. What other occupations or employments have you 
had since 1937? 

Mrs. Freed. I worked as a saleslady in a bakery. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Freed. I worked as a laboratory technician in a lab. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that ? 

Mrs. Freed. 1942 to November 1944. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your employment since 1944? 

Mrs. Freed. I did not have any employment until just recently. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
William Kimple ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel. ) 

Mrs. Freed. I decline to answer. I don't want to test my veracity 
against statements that were made on the stand by a police informer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me present to you 

Mr. ScHERER. May I interrupt? Was anything that "police in- 
former" as you call him — ^anything said by him about you untrue? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Freed. I refuse to answer that question. It is the same ques- 
tion put by you instead of Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Jackson. Upon what grounds do you refuse to answer? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Freed. I don't want to put myself in the position to test my 
veracity against the informer here. I don't want to go into the ex- 
pense of trying to prove myself not guilty or, since I feel I am inno- 
cent, I don't want to get into the same predicament Owen Lattimore 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1765 

got in and was just vindicated yesterday, and on that basis I feel I 
don't have to answer the question. 

Mr. Jackson. Is that the reason you are giving for not answering 
the question ? If so, the committee is not satisfied with the answer. 

(The witness conferred with her counseL) 

Mrs. Freed. I certainly Avill claim the fifth amendment if that is 
what you want me to say. . 

Mr. Jackson. That is a constitutional legal ground for refusing to 
answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. You seem to place a great deal of stress upoji your 
unwillingness to testify because of the testimony of Mr. Kimple. 
1 hand you a document, wliich has been introduced in evidence as 
Kimple Exhibit No. 13, and I will ask you to state whether or not you, 
yourself, signed that document ? 

(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. Ta\tsnner. And that the signature of Tashia Freed was made 
by you ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Freed. I refuse to answer this question on the first, supported 
by the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. You will note there is a title under the signature of 
the name Tashia Freed. It is unit organizer. Were you unit organ- 
izer at the time that card was executed ^ 

Mrs. Freed. I refuse to answer on the same grounds as previously. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Anne Pollock ? 

Mrs. Freed. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Scherer. The witness' reason that she did not want to test the 
testimonv of Officer Kimple now vanishes into thin air. 

Mrs. Spencer. She claimed the first and the fifth, and those were tlie 
grounds we are referring to. 

Mr. Doyle. You may not have been in the hearing room, ]\Iadam 
Attorney, but we do not allow counsel to address the committee. We 
simply do not have the time nor facility. So please address the com- 
mittee, if you want, through your witness. I am sorry we cannot hear 
members of the bar. but we simply do not have time. Our rules clearly 
so state. 

Mr. Jackson. I Avanted the record to be clear as to all of the 
questions to which declinations have been entered and as much for 
the witness" protection as for the committee. 

Mr. Scherer. It was just an observation because she answered the 
previous question. One of the reasons she gave was she did not want 
to subject lierself to a possible charge of perjury in testing the testi- 
mony of Officer Kimple, and I said that 

Mr. Jackson. I thought she followed that with the fifth and first. 

Mr. Scherer. She did, but that reason now vanishes in thin air be- 
cause we have before us now the documentary evidence and slie refuses 
on the basis of the fifth amendment to tell whether that is her signature 
and whether she executed the cards, so one of her reasons at least for 
not answering the previous question as I say does not carry any weiglit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Anne Pollock known to you to be a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Priced. I refuse to answer this question on the first, supported 
by the fifth. 



1766 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Anne Pollock use the Communist Party name of j 
Anne Burton, to your personal knowledge ? 

Mrs. Freed. That would be the same question. I will answer it in 
exactly the same words. I refuse to answer on the first, supported by 
the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you write on this card in your own handwriting 
that the dues of Anne Burton, party name, Anne Pollock, real name, 
were paid to January 1938? 

Mrs. Freed. Mr. Tavenner, I think it is the same question, and we 
could save a lot of time here if you will know that I am going to claim 
the privilege on the first and fifth on any questions that you ask me. 

Mr. Scherer. You have made up your mind in advance to claim the 
first ? 

Mrs, Freed. No. 

Mr. Scherer. How can you tell whether the question might incrimi- 
nate you before it is asked ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Scherer. You certainly are not invoking the fifth amendment 
in good faith then, madam. 

Mr. Doyle. That is pretty clear evidence. 

Mrs. Freed. If the question is relevant, I will claim the first and 
fifth, and I see that the questions are following in exactly the same 
pattern, and on that basis, I 

Mr. Scherer. Your attorney advised you properly and saved you 
from the bell. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you transfer Anne Pollock from unit J-5 of the 
Plollywood section of the C^ommunist Party to the 57 assembly branch 
section of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Freed. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. I stand on the 
first supported by the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of a sponsor's certif- 
icate on behalf of the candidate for partisan office sponsoring Emil 
Freed for the Communist Party nomination in the office or to the 
office of Representative in Congress for the 15th District to be voted 
for at the primary election to be held on the 27th day of August 19-±(), 
and I will ask you to look at the second signature appearing in the 
document. Will you state whether or not the signature appearing- 
there is your signature ? 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Freed. I refuse to answer the question on the same gi-ounds,. 
on the first, supported by the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask 
tliat it be marked "Freed Exhibit No. 1" for identification only. 

Mr. Doyle. It will be so received and so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a pliotostatic copy in two pages of an- 
other sponsor's certificate on behalf of candidate for partisan office 
in which it is stated : 

I, the undersigned, sponsor for Anita Whitney for the Communist Party nomina- 
tion to the office of member of the United States Senate to be voted for at the 
primary elation' to be held on the 27th day of August 1940. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1767 

And I will ask you to examine the last signature appearing near the 
top of page 2 and state whether or not that signature is your signature. 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Freed. I refuse to answer the question on the first, supported 
by the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and re- 
quest that it be marked "Freed Exhibit No. 2" for identification only. 

Mr. Doyle. So received and so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a third photostatic copy of a sponsor's 
certificate on behalf of candidate for partisan office, on the second page 
of which you will see a certification "'deputy's affidavit.'' This affidavit 
reads as follows : 

I, Tashia Freed, solemnly swear that I have been appointed according to the 
provisions of sections 2610 and 2G11 of the elections code as a verification deputy 
to secure signatures of sponsors in the county of Los Angeles to the nomination 
paper of Anita Whitney as a candidate for the nomination of the Communist 
Party for the office of State comptroller, that all of the signatures on this section 
of the nomination paper were made in my presence and that to the best of my 
knowledge and belief each signature is a genuine signature of the person whose 
name it purports to be. 

( Signed ) Tashia Freed. 

Subscribed and sworn to on the 18th day of June 1942. 

Will you examine your signature or the signature to the affidavit 
and state whether or not it is your signature ? 

(Document handed to witness.) 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Freed. I decline to answer on the first supported by the fifth. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask 
that it be marked "Freed Exhibit No. 3" for identification only. 

Mr. Doyle. It will be received and so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Were you a member of the Communist Party on the 
last day indicated in 1942 ? 

Mrs. Freed. I decline to answer on the first supported by the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now? 

Mrs. Freed. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mrs. Freed. I decline on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. Any questions, Mr. Jackson ? 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. ScHERER. No questions. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you, AVitness and Counsel. 

( AA^iereupon, the witness was excused.) 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Mr. Max Appelman. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ^ 

Mr. Appelman. I do. 

(Eepresentative Jackson left the hearing room.) 



1768 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

TESTIMONY OF MAX APPELMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

A. L. WIKIN 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr.AppELMAN. Max Appelman. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted you are accompanied by counsel. Will 
counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. WiRiN. I am identified by the name A. L. Wirin, attorney, Los 
Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Appelman ? 

Mr. Appelman. I was born on January 1, 1910, in White Russia, 
I was brought here when I was a year old. 

Mr. Tavenner. You now reside in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Appelman. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Appelman. I don't remember whether it was 1934 or 1935. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived here continuously since that time? 

Mr. Appelman. To the best of my recollection except for the time 
I w^as in the armed services I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. What period of time were you in the armed services ? 

Mr. Appelman. I was taken into the Army in February 1942 and 
was discharged from the Army, I think it was 1945. If you want the 
exact date, I have it. 

Mr. Tavenner. The exact date is unimportant. 

Mr. Appelman. It was between 1942, the early part of 1942 and prob- 
ably the early part of 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your for- 
mal educational training has been ? 

Mr. Appelman. I have a high-school education. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession or occupation ? 

Mr. Appelman. I don't believe I can answer that question about oc- 
cupation, I don't think that it is the concern of this committee what 
I do for a living. 

Mr. Doyle. We cannot accept the answer. We believe the question 
is pertinent and I direct you to answer. 

Mr. Appelman. I say again I don't intend to discuss how I earn a 
living for myself and my family with the committee. I have here in 
my possession a newspaper clipping, Los Angeles Times, with direct 
quotation from Mr. Doyle. I am telling you why I can't answer that 
question and I quote : 

There is no doubt that these people — 

paragraph above refers to Communists — 

are now trying to infiltrate political parties, both Republican and Democratic, 
churches, schools, labor unions, and business firms. 

It is obvious from this- 



Mr. Doyle. I stand by that statement. There is ample evidence to 
the fact. That is a true statement. 

Mr. Wirin. He is stating his reasons. 

Mr. Doyle. I just want to state I stand on 

Mr. Appleman. I am not contradicting you. I am quoting you. 
The scope of this illegal inquiry is so broad that Mr. Doyle has made 
it very clear to me that I cannot even answer a question regarding my 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1769 

occupation without fear of possible incrimination. I want to say that 
I am suspicious of this committee. I think that this committee is out 
to trap me with some incriminating 

Mr. Doyle. Witness — 

Mr. Appelman. My last sentence is my constitutional claim. All 
right. So it is on this basis that I am compelled to claim the rights 
guaranteed me in the Constitution and particularly those of the first 
and the fifth amendments. 

Mr. Tavenner. Has your occupation in part included employment 
by the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Appelman. I have already said that I am not going to discuss 
this matter with this committee for the grounds I have already stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a document entitled "Two Decades of 
Progress," and ask you to examine it, particularly the first page. 

Will you state the caption at the top of the page ? 

Mr. Appleman. I don't think I am required to read any of this docu- 
ment. I decline to do so on the grounds already stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Doesn't it state "Twenty Years of Progress of the 
Communist Party" ? 

Mr. Appleman. You can read as well as I can, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the fourth or fifth line from the 
caption and state whether or not there appears there the name of the 
secretary of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Appelman, I say again you can read just as well as I can. I am 
not going to read any document which may possibly incriminate me 
or possibly subject me to unwarranted prosecution. I want to make 
that very clear. 

Mr. Scherer. Or warranted prosecution? 

Mr. Appeljian. That is what you say, Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Doyle. On what grounds, Witness ? 

Mr. Appelman. On the ground previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer the frontispiece 
and page 1 of the document in evidence and ask that it be marked 
"Appelman Exhibit No. 1" for identification only. 

Mr. Moulder. Is this witness named as the secretary in the docu- 
ment ? 

Mr. Scherer. That is what I wanted to know. 

Mr. Doyle. The document will be so received and so marked. 

Mr. WiRiN. I don't find the word "secretary" on that sheet. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am afraid I am wrong. That is why I want to 
read it. 

Mr. Scherer (reading) : 

Twenty Years of Growth and Progress of the Communist Party, USA, Com- 
munist Party, Los Angeles County. 

It has the hammer and sickle on it. 

Pettus Perry, chairman ; Paul Cline, secretary ; Max Silver, organizational 
secretary ; Mat Pelman, educational director ; Al Bryan, legislative director ; 
and Helen Gardner, membership director. 

He is educational director. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you the educational director of the Com- 
munist Party of Los Angeles County in September 1939 ? 

Mr. Appelman. I wonder if we can't have an understanding that 
I cannot in good conscience become an informer for this committee 



1770 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

and will not in my own self-interest against possible incrimination and 
unwarranted prosecution, answer questions concerning the Communist 
Tarty or anything even remotely related to it on the grounds previ- 
ously stated, if that is what you want. 

Mr. Doyle. May this be understood to save your time : Instead of 
reading a prepared statement, each time, even though it is a brief 
one 

Mr. WiRiN. He isn't reading a prepared statement each time. 
Mr. Doyle. I saw him. It is in front of him. 

Mr. Appelman. In order to be sure to give the committee the right 
answer. 

Mr. Doyle. A constitutional claim honestly made is always the 
right answer. That is all you need make. It will save your time in 
reading those statements. Proceed. 

Mr. Taatsnner. I hand you Kimple Exhibits Nos. 7 and 8 and I will 
ask you whether or not they were your Communist Party books issued 
to you on the dates indicated on each. 

( The witness conferred with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Appelman. Did you ask me a question, sir? 

Mr. Ta\tdnner. Yes. 

Mr. Appelman. Would you repeat the Question? 

Mr. Tavenner. Read him the question. 

(The reporter read from his notes as requested.) 

Mr. Appelman. This question falls in the same province and so I 
must give the same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time known by the name of Mat 
Pelman ? 

Mr. Appelman. I give you the same answer, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. You decline to answer for the same reasons? 

Mr. Appelman. I decline to answer for the reasons I have pre- 
viously given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you labor director of the Communist Party 
in Los Angeles County ? 

Mr. Appelman. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Appelman. I again decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. Any questions, Mr. Moulder ? 

Mr. Moulder. No. 

Mr. Doyle. Any questions, Mr. Scherer ? 

Mr. Scherer. No. 

Mr. Doyle. May I make this one observation : If you were active 
in the Communist Party at any time and you are out of it, why don't 
you help your Government by helping us to understand how best to 
meet the problem of the subversive activities, whether it is in the 
Communist Party or in other elements of our society? I make that 
suggestion to you. If you are out of the party, no matter if you were 
in in 1939 when this book was published, if you are out of it and 
learned things of value to your country, about subversive activities 
or how the Communist Party here and there, if it did when you were 
in it, and you are out of it, engages in any way in subversive activities, 
why don't you give that benefit to your Congress ? 

I didn't suggest that to get into an argument with you. You are a 
young man, evidently an important young man, with fine training. 



I 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1771 

I don't mean to impose on you or put you on the spot, sir. I just want 
to leave that thought with you. 

Thank you, Mr. Wirin and the witness. 

Mr. Wirin. May the record show my good behavior ? 

Mr. Doyle. Very good. 

(T\niereupon, the witness was excused.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Joseph Aidlin. 

Mr. WiRiN. May this last contribution go to the Red Cross? 

Mr. SCHERER. No. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 
Mr. AiDLiN. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH W. AIDLIN 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are not accompanied by counsel. 
You are familiar with the rule of the committee, I assume, that you 
are entitled to counsel if you desire ? 

Mr. Aidlin. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Aidlin? 

Mr. Aidlin. April 28, 1910, in Chicago, 111. 

Mr. Tavenner. "V^Hiere do you now reside ? 

Mr. Aidlin. I reside in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been a resident of Los Angeles? 

Mr. Aidlin. Since 1920. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ? 

Mr. Aidlin. I am an attorney. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you practiced in the city of Los 
Angeles 'I 

Mr. Aidlin. Since 1933, latter part of 1933. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, briefly what 
your formal educational training has been for your profession? 

Mr. Aidlin. I am a graduate of UCLA and the University of 
California School of Law. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this witness was subpenad to ap- 
pear before this committee at the hearing conducted in Los Angeles 
in September 1951. He was called at that time on the basis of the 
identification of him as a member of the Communist Party by Harold 
Ashe, who was the first witness I believe that we heard in the Los 
Angeles area. It came to the attention of the committee at that 
time that Mr. Aidlin denied that he was actually a member of the 
Communist Party and for that reason the staff undertook additional 
investigation and he was not actually called under his subpena to 
appear. 

You have heard testimony here today which I assume the witness 
has also heard, I believe he was here. 

Mr. Aidlin. I did not hear the testimony relating to me but the 
testimony has been reported to me generally. 

Mr. Tavenner. And having obtained that information the com- 
mittee desired that he be resubpenaed at this time. 

Do you recall the nature of the testimony of Mr. Harold Ashe before 
this committee ? 

Mr. Aidlin. I recall it in a general way ; yes. 



1772 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ashe proceeded to name persons known to him 
to be members of the Communist Party. He had explained the or- 
ganization of a professional cell of the Comunist Party. My recol- 
lection is he stated that you attended meetings of the Communist 
Party and that you went to the professional cell of the Communist 
Party. 

His wife also testified to the effect that you attended closed Com- 
munist Party meetings and I understand you are familiar with the 
testimony given here today. 

Mr. AiDLiN. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has made a great deal of effort 
to determine the character of the professional cells of the Commu- 
nist Party in Los Angeles, a great deal of emphasis has been placed 
by the committee upon that type of a Communist Party group. We 
desire to know whether or not you were a member of such group and 
if you were, we want you to tell the committee any knowledge you 
have about its activities and its character and its membership. 

Mr. AiDLiN. I want to state candidly to the committee that I have 
absolutely no recollection of any such group or any such meetings 
as those mentioned by Mr. Ashe in his testimony. 

Mr. ScHERER. You say you have no such recollection? 

Mr. AiDLiN. That is correct. 

Mr. ScHERER. You don't deny, however, that there were such meet- 
ings? 

Mr. AiDLiN. Congressman Scherer, this is a problem when we deal 
with matters that go back many years. I am prepared here to deny 
that I am or ever have been a member of the Communist Party and 
I am so denying. 

With respect to particular meetings or activities that is a very diffi- 
cult thing. If I may be permitted, I would like to state to the com- 
mittee something of my past history, which might give an indication 
of why there might be persons who might make the statements that 
they have made. 

In my youth — and while I am not an old man now during the last 5 
years I feel much older than I used to — I did have political aspirations 
and I had them as a young idealistic person might have. I attended 
many meetings. There must have been hundreds and thousands of 
meetings, literally, and I have always had a feeling and a sense of 
independence about myself, probably more so than is good for a person, 
but at the same time that is the way I am. I have never been afraid 
to meet with anybody whether I agree with him or not, I have never 
felt that I would be contaminated and I don't think I have been. I 
cannot in good conscience recall categorically matters that go back 
many years. 

As a matter of fact, I had a very disconcerting experience here just 
the other day. I met a man at the cigar stand in a building downtown 
and he didn't even introduce himself to me, he said, "hello, Mr. Aidlin," 
and began to talk to me about a matter and I didn't recognize the man 
or the matter and I had apparently handled a matter for him 7 or 8 
years ago. Lawyers will appreciate that, I am sure. 

If I may, I would like to state further that in the middle thirties 
the attitude which people had about members of the Communist Party 
who were self-professed, public members, was quite different. It is 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1773 

only in retrospect that we see a history unfolding, and I think many, 
many good people have no fears about meeting, even if there were 
known members of the Communist Party there, and even if they spoke, 
and in that way many people became entangled with hazy notions and 
recollections which in later years are not always accurate. 

I might also state that in the testimony of a Mr. Charles Dagget in 
relation to the Ashe testimony, as I recall reading that testimony about 
a year or so ago, I think that he stated he attended this very meeting 
that Mr. Ashe was talking about and I think he said that I was there 
and I think he also stated that he was not a member of the Communist 
Party at the time. 

Now I don't even recall having known Mr. Dagget until quite a few 
years after the period referred to. I may have, I don't know, but I 
don't recall that. . . 

Mr. Tavenner. The testimony given here today by Mr. William 
Kimple is that he attended one or two closed party meetings at the 
address of a place which was occupied by you and your wife whom he 
knew as Mary Raiden. It is not my purpose to ask you any questions 
regarding your wife. 

Mr. AiDLiN. I appreciate that. 

Mr. Tavenner. But it was in the house occupied by you that these 
meetings occurred, that they were closed Communist Party meetings, 
and that you were present although he was not clear as to the extent 
of your participation in the meetings. 

i)oes that refresh your recollection as to your having attended 
closed Communist Party meetings in that home? 

Mr. AiDLiN. Let me say this in all candor, again : I do not have any 
recollection of any such meetings. I would say that if I had attended 
any such meetings there must have been non-Communist Party mem- 
bers present because I was not a member. As a matter of fact, I ran 
for the State legislature from my home, a little place that I first lived 
in after marriage, and there must have been hundreds of meetings in 
that place. That was the first baptism I had in running for office and 
there were people in and out all the time, incidentally, I notice that 
most candidates today do not make their home their headquarters and 
I can see why. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wh?it was the address of the place that you 
occupied ? 

Mr. AiDLiN. The place where we originally lived was on Randall 
Court. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1124? 

Mr. AiDLiN. 1124. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Ashe testified that that was the premises which 
he had moved — he testified as follows : 

I might add that Joe Aidlin and Mary Raiden later moved into my home which 
I had at 1124 North Randall Court. 

Mr. AroLiN. After testimony, when I read it in the paper, I endeav- 
ored to try to reconstruct. Now I am going to give you the best of 
my recollection after making a very serious effort to reconstruct it. 

Those were the depression days as you will recall, and certain things 
about that transaction have in a sense certain humorous aspects of the 
thing have in a sense remained with me. 

As I recall, we looked in the newspapers for a place to rent and I 
think it may have been the Hollywood Citizen News or some papers, 



1774 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

maybe it was only the News or the Citizen, I don't really recall. And 
he was moving out. I don't believe we ever knew it was his basement, 
we rented the place from the landlady, I don't remember what the 
rent was but I am sure it was very low, and as I recall, I think we 
bought some of his furniture for $25 or $35 or something, but this was 
a renting of a house which happened to have been occupied by Mr. 
Ashe. I might say that I don't recall having known Mr. Ashe any 
more than on a very casual basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Mr. Ashe as organizer for the 
Communist Party at that time ? 

Mr. AroLiN. If he was organizer for the Communist Party at that 
time I probably would have known that he was, because in those days 
they were making speeches all over the place. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend meetings, that is, meetings in homes 
or we will say in your home, attended by Mr. Ashe ? 

Mr. AiDLiN. I don't recall any. Now I might have attended some 
meetings where Mr. Ashe attended which had to do with some partic- 
ular issues or some particular campaigns. I was involved in a number 
of issue campaigns in those days, I believe. There were a lot of things 
going on. Almost every place you went there were Communist Party 
officials around and it is very possible that I might have been at some 
meetings where he might have been, but I don't recall any. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any knowledge of the existence of a 
professional group or cell of the Communist Party in 1938 or, say 
from 1936 to 1939 ? 

Mr. AiDLiN. I have no personal knowledge. I mean I have read the 
testimony and there is that information out, but 1 have no personal 
knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a meeting of a professional 
group of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. AiDLiN. None that I know of. None that I can recall at this 
time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend any Communist Party meeting 
which was not open to the public ? 

Mr. AiDLiN. If I did, Mr. Tavenner, I woukl not have attended con- 
sidering myself a member of the Communist Party. Now, if I at- 
tended or was invited I w^ould not have consciously attended as a mem- 
ber. In other words, the meetings would not have been known to me 
as being limited solely to members of the Communist Party. I think 
that one thing is important that we must bear in mind, and that is 
that what appears to be a very tight group today, according to all the 
information at hand, was obviously not such a tight group in the 
thirties and I think that there didn't seem to be the same security 
programs that seem to exist now, I mean among the Communist Party 
themselves, you see. And it is very possible, I can't say yes or no, 
that I might have attended meetings without actually having been a 
member. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you know William Kimple ? 

Mr. AroLiN. I saw the gentleman on the stand. I recall when I saw 
him on the stand that I had a nodding acquaintance with him as some 
other name, not that name, I had a nodding acquaintance with the 
man. I think he has gained a little weight. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1775 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him as William Wallace or Bill 

Wallace? .„-.,r n 

Mr. AmLiN. It might have been Bill Wallace. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was his Communist Party name. 

Mr. AiDLiN. It might have been that and I don't 

Mr. Ta\tsnner. You would not likely have known him bv his Com- 
munist Party name without having attended Communist Party meet- 
ings with him, would you ^ t • i i i 

Mr. AiDLiN. Not necessarily. I might have. I might have known 
him by that name. I might have been some place where his name was 
used, where that name was used. I think it is important to bear in 
mind that these were more open days, you see, and names ^^I'e of 
110 real— I imagine these people used their names, that is all. He 
might have been called Wallace by somebody in my presence or 

something. „ , . x i i i 

Mr ScHERER. Mav have, but as far as the testimony 1 have heard 
is concerned, they only called them by their Conmiunist Party names in 
closed Communist Party meetings. 

How did you gain that casual acquaintance with Wallace^^ 
Mr. AroLiN. I attended many meetings. Congressman Scherer, and 
in many of those meetings there were Communist Party people. Com- 
munist^ Party officials, they were known as Communist Party officials. 
But these were not meetings which as I now recall were other than 

issue meetings. , i.^, /->, • ^ 

Mr. S('HERER. Did you know Wallace as a member of the (ommunist 

Party '*' 

Mr. AiDEiN. If I knew him at all I would have known him as an 
official or member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is all the questions I have. 

Mr Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr Doyle. Mr. Aidlin. I have known you for many years, you have 
known me for many vears, we have both lived in Los Angeles County 
many years, both members of the bar. I don't remember though the 
years in which von were a candidate for State assembly. 
■' Mr. Aidlin. "1938. , ,• ^ , 

Mr. Doyle. Is that the onlv race vou made for public office « 

Mr. Aidlin. No; I subsequently aspired to run for Congress in 1944, 
but hnallv I didn't run and I did run for city council in 1945. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you run for any luiblic office prior to 1938 % 

Mr. Aidlin. No, I did not. 

Mr. Doyle. I don't think I have seen you since you have added a 
mustache to your decorations, so I hardly recognized you. - 

Mr. Aidlin. Grav hair, too. Congressman Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. You have said these were issue meetings. I am think- 
incr back to the earlv davs in southern California myself. What years 
AVfHild yon say tlnit you attended, if you did, Communist meetings 
AA'here issues were being discussed? 

Mr. AiDLiN. Well, after 1938 when I got the Democratic nomination 
I became very active in the Democratic county committee. I was 
defeated by the Republican candidate but I became a member of the 
count V committee by virtue of my nomination as an assembly can- 
didate and from that point on I devoted most of my time to mtra- 
Democratic party matters. 



1776 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF,, AREA 

During the period from that epic moment in 1934 to a number of 
years later, the State was full of different issues, pension movements,, 
labor legislation, things like social security. 

Mr. Doyle. I don't think there is any question about that. I remem- 
ber those of course, because I lived here, the problems, confusion. But 
1 want to ask you frankly, are you able to help us now for the purpose 
of our report to Congress, to learn anything about the functioning of 
the Communist Party during those days about which you may have 
knowldege or experience. That is our purpose in asking you to come 
and these other witnesses, hoping that they will contribute to the 
knowledge of Congress in the field of subversive activity whether it is. 
in the Communist Party or any other group. 

Mr. AroLiN. Well, it occurs to me, Congressman Doyle, that in 
retrospect the only time when the Communist movement had any 
influence of any kind was when it identified itself with popular move- 
ments and that is of course the key problem in this problem of the 
Communist movement, because it is extremely difficult to attack a 
popular movement because of the involvement of an undesirable group 
in it. That is the problem that Congress always has to face. My own 
feeling is that it is a foreign philosophy which will never make very 
much headway, I don't think it really has made any substantial head- 
way and never will make very much headway. 

In fact, if it were possible, I don't know whether it is probable, but 
if it were possible to create a condition where the Communist Party 
could publicly disclose the true nature of its principles and objectives 
and brought out into the area of public debate, I think that the decision 
of the people would be so overwhelming as to be crushing and perhaps 
that may be the ultimate solution. Because basically as Herbert 
Hoover put it — I am not a clipper, I don't clip things — but I did, as you 
get older you get more mellow and 

Mr. DoTT.E. I didn't mean to ask you to give us a dissertation. 

Mr. AiDLiN. Excuse me. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you any knowledge of any Communist function 
or a functioning in the Los Angeles area since 1938 or 1939 ? 

Mr. Aidlin. I have no personal knowledge. 

Mr. DoYi.E. You have never signed any membership application 
or card or paid any dues or had any one else pay any dues for you ? 
. (The witness shook his head negatively. ) 

Mr. AiDLiN. I might state that during the course of my activities 
in the Democratic Party I have very frequently taken positions which 
were at variance with the official publications of the Communist Party 
and I am quite sure at times have come in for denunciation. 

Mr. Doyle. How many people as you recall now would have attended 
the meetings in your home which may have been Communist Party 
political meetings, at which you were present ? 

Mr. Aidlin. I couldn't say except it was a very small place. It 
was a very small little house. 

Mr. Doyle. Would there have been as many as a dozen ? 

Mr. AiDLiN. I just, I really couldn't say. 

Mr. Doyle. Any other questions? 

Mr. Tavenner. I think not, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Moulder? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1777 

Mr. Moulder. I would say this : So far as you know, there has never 
been any record or card issued to you as a member of the Communist 
Party? , ,, 

Mr. Aidlin. I can state categorically I have never held any mem- 
bership card, I have never considered myself a member, as a matter 
of fact, on a principle basis I could not tolerate anything which has 
any basis of any kind in violence to accomplish a political objective. 
Mr. Doyle. Let me ask the witness one more question. 
Do you now recall any time or occasion during your political cam- 
paigns or speaking efforts on issues — as I remember, I can remember 
reading about you speaking at different places, I didn't live in Los 
Angeles then, as you know, I lived in Long Beach most of the time, 
but I do remember you as a younger lawyer — can you now think of 
any time when you recall that you were invited by citizens whom you 
knew to be Communist leaders or who said that they wanted you to 
come to speak to a Communist Party meeting ? 

Do you recall any such occasion? If so, when might it have been 
and where? As I remember, you were one of the younger members 
of the bar and you were speaking frequently all over on issues. 
Mr. Aidlin. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, now, can you think of any occasion when you did 
accept an invitation to speak to a group which frankly said they were 
Communists or which later you discovered to be a Communist meet- 
ing ? 

Mr, Aidlin. I couldn't at this moment, it has been quite a number 
of years and I couldn't really at this moment pinpoint any of these 
occasions, Congressman Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. May I say, Mr. Aidlin, to you as an American Congress- 
man, you may not think that the Communist situation is very 
serious, but I want to say to you it is more serious, evidently, than you 
realize and with your ability and resources I hope you will open your 
eyes wider than they apparently are on the hazard involved. There 
is the decision right in the Federal court by a distinguished Federal 
judge that you know very well, made in this very building on June 4 of 
this year, in which he in substance relates that the advocacy of the 
Communist Party in America has never changed from the Marx line 
which advocated force and violence. 

Mr. Aidlin. I recognize the seriousness of the movement. Congress- 
man Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I want to urge you with your ability and financial re- 
sources and those things to help Congress and your own State to get at 
it more than you have every before. 

Mr. Moulder. May I express myself along that line, Mr. Chairman. 
So far as the evidence that has been produced before this committee, 
I can see nothing that should have any unfavorable reflection upon you. 
Perhaps it is unfortunate you have been subpenaed before the com- 
mittee. I don't think there is any evidence, material evidence, that 
would indicate that you were a Communist or disloyal American 
citizen. That is'my opinion as one member of the committee, so far as 
I know. 

Mr. Aidlin. Thank you. Congressman Moulder. I appreciate that 
very deeply. 
Mr. Doyle. Is there any other question ? 



1778 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 

Thank you, Mr. Aidlin, for coming. 

Mr. Aidlin. I might say, if I may, Congressman Doyle, that I have 
been treated most courteously by Mr. Tavenner and Mr. Wheeler and 
by this congressional committee. 

Mr. Doyle. I know, but you were under subpena. You mean you 
were treated well even though you were under subpena ? 

Mr. Aidlin. Yes. Thank you. 

Mr. Doyle. You can get your fee here at the clerk's desk. 

Mr. Aidlin. No, thank you. If it may be contributed to the YMCA, 
I am behind in my contribution. Thank you. 

(Whereupon, the witness was excused.) 

Mr. DoY'LE. The committee will stand in recess until 9 tomorrow 
morning. 

(Whereupon, at 5 : 15 p. m. the committee was recessed, to reconvene 
at 9 a. m. the following day, Friday, July 1, 1955.) 

X 



BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY 

, llllilillliillll 

3 9999 05706 3222