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Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the Los Angeles area. Hearings"

INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES 
IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA-Part 3 



HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIYES 



EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



MARCH 30 AND 31, 1953 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
INCLUDING INDEX 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
31747 WASHINGTON : 1953 



Boston Public Library 
Superintendent of Documents 

JUN 1 8 1S53 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives 

HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois, Chairman 

BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania 

DONALD L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri 

KIT CLARDY, Michigan CLYDE DOYLE, California 

GORDON H. SCHERER, Oliio JAMES B. FRAZIER, JR., Tennessee 

Robert L. Kunzig, Counsel 

FRANK S. Tavenner, Jr.. Counsel 

Louis J. Russell, Chief Investigator 

Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk 

Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 

n 



CONTENTS 



March 30, 1953: 

Testimony of — Paw 

Abraham Minkus 613 

Dwight Hauser 624 

David Robison 643 

Libby Burke 655 

George B. Rossini 668 

Naomi Robeson 669 

March 31, 1953: 

Testimony of — 

Roy Erwin 687 

Index -._ 713 

m 



The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American Activities 
operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 753, 2d session, which 
provides : 

Be it enacted ty the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America 171 Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

RXTLE XI 
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 



(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold sitch hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any i)erson 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 83D CONGRESS 
House Resolution 5, January 3, 1953 

• •*«••• 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con- 
gress, the following standing committees: 

• ***•*• 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 
■•*•*••• 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 

• * * • • * « 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American Activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
In any necessary remedial legislation. 

Tlie Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production <of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. ISubpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 

VI 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LOS ANGELES AEEA— Part 3 



MONDAY, MARCH 30, 1953 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Los Angeles.^ Calif. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to ad- 
journment, at 9 : 36 a. m., in room 518, Federal Building, Hon. Donald 
L. Jackson (acting chairman), presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Donald L. Jackson 
(acting chairman), Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, Francis E. 
"Walter, Clyde Doyle (appearance noted in transcript), and James B. 
Frazier, Jr. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Thomas W. 
Beale, Sr., chief clerk; and William A. Wheeler, investigator. 

Mr. Jackson. The committee will be in order. 

Let the record show tliat there are present Messrs. Clardy, Scherer, 
Walter, Frazier, and Acting Chairman Jackson. 

'Who is your first witness, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, you will recall that the witness INfr. 
Abraham Minkus was directed to return to the witness stand tliis 
morning, so I will call him at this time. 

Mr. Jackson. Please be seated, Mr. Minkus. You have already been 
sworn, I take it ? 

Mr. Minkus. Yes, I have. 

TESTIMONY OP ABRAHAM MINKUS, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUN- 
SEL, WILLIAM B. ESTERMAN AND DANIEL G. MARSHALL— 
Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Minkus, you were sworn on Friday, I believe, 
so I think it is not necessary to repeat the oath. 

During the early part of your testimony you were asked the question 
by me as to whether or not you disagreed with the testimony of Mr. 
LeRoy Herndon and Mr. Richard B. Lewis. In answer to that ques- 
tion, on page 657 ^ of the transcript, you made this statement : 

"What I disagreed with about their testimony, that they allowed themselves 
to be used for a union-busting job in this city. And furthermore, I feel that they 
allowed themselves to be used to weaken and undermine the whole cause of 
academic freedom, not only for Los Angeles but throughout the country. 

* See p. 542, Investigation of Communist Activities in the Los Angeles Area — Part 2. 

613 



614 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Then Congressman Moulder asked you the question that appears on 
page 659 ^ of the transcript : 

You made some reference to their testimony supporting union busting. "What 
explanation do j'ou have to make on that assertion? 

Mr. MiN'KUs. I read the headlines of one of the papers as I came in this after- 
noon. It says that Communists seized Los Angeles Teachers' Union. That is a 
monstrous hoax. It is, in fact 

and the sentence was not completed. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Minkus, I want to ask you this question : What 
knowledge do you have regarding the success or failure of the Com- 
munists to seize the Los Angeles Teachers' Union? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. First, Mr. Tavenner, I wish to be understood to have 
repeated each ground or point of my answer which appears on pages 
660 ^-668, and page 672 of my testimony as my answer to every ques- 
tion asked of me where my reply adopted my previous answer, includ- 
ing the first and fifth amendments, but not excluding any other ground. 

INIr. Tavenner. Then you declined to answer the question for the 
reasons that you have previously assigned in the record ? 

Mr. Minkus. I haven't quite finished, Mr. Tavenner. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. Mr. Tavenner, I want first to finish the answer that I 
left incomplete, that you referred to on page 659, when I was in- 
terrupted. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you answer my question first, and if you 
desire to make any further explanation, I will give you an oppor- 
tunity to do so. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with IMr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. Mr. Tavenner, I wish to adopt in full the answer 
which I gave, which included the five points, as my answer to this 
question, including all of the grounds contained therein. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed 
to answer that question of counsel. 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. The Chair feels that the answer given by the 
witness, or the lack or failure of an answer is such that the Chair will 
direct that the witness answer the question asked by counsel directly, 
or Iry declination to answer. 

Mr. Minkus. Mr. Tavenner indicated that I would be able to finish 
my answer. May I finish it now ? 

Mr, Jackson. Counsel said that you will be given an opportunity 
to explain your answer or make a statement following the answer to 
the question which is presently pending. The Chair directs that you 
answer the question. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. I wish to repeat the answer I have previously given, 
including all the points that I gave before, but not exclusive of the 
first and fifth amendments which are contained therein. 

Now, may I finish the sentence which Mas incomplete, Mr. Tavenner ? 



1 Ihid., p. 54,3. 

' Ibid., pp. 544 and 545. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 615 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. MiNKUS. On page 659 of the record, where I was interrupted at 

the point where I said, "it is, in fact " I would like to continue as 

follows: "It is, in fact, my opinion that the newspaper headline I 
referred to does not correctly reflect the testimony I heard, regardless 
of the truth or falsity of that testimony." 

I want it clear that I was expressing an opinion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, you heard the testimony of Mr. LeRoy Hern- 
don and Mr. Richard B. Lewis that it was the purpose of the Com- 
munist Party group of which they were members to influence the 
policy of the Teachers' Union. You heard that testimony, didn't you ? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. I repeat the answer I have previously given. 

Mr. ScHERER. Again I request, Mr. Chainnan, that he be directed 
to answer. 

JSIr. Minkus. Which included the first and fifth amendment. 

Mr. ScHERER. I request that he be directed to answer this question. 
I want to get in the record that he is ordered by the chairman to 
answer that question. That question calls for either yes or no, and 
there is no basis in God's green earth on which he can claim the fifth 
amendment on the question if he heard that testimony. 

Mr. Clardt. He either heard it or he didn't, Your Honor. 

Mr. Jackson. May the Chair ask if the witness declines to answer 
that question upon the grounds previously stated, including the first 
and fifth amendments? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. Mr. Chairman, I repeat the answer I previously gave, 
including the five points, and including the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Clardt. Now, Mr. Chairman, I think it is important that we 
press this point a little further. You will recall, and I think the 
counsel will bear me out, that some rather wild accusations were made 
at the time that you referred to in your initial question, and now as I 
understand it, all you are seeking to ascertain at this time is whether 
or not the witness was present and heard the testimony of certain other 
witnesses. Am I correct in that ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That was the question. 

Mr. Clardt. I assume that that is correct, and of course if that 
is the fact, then the witness can say in answering as to whether he 
did or not. This is a typical method of evading the clear, frank issue, 
and I ask that the chair insist again that there be a yes or no answer 
followed by an explanation, if he wishes to do so, have him state 
frankly and in unequivocal language that he is declining to answer 
upon proper constitutional grounds, or any explanation that he wishes, 
but I think the committee is entitled to that much respect, for, after 
all, we are the Congress of the United States. 

Mr. Jackson. It is quite obvious to me that we are not going to 
get a clear and unequivocal answer. The Chair has already directed 
him to answer the question on several occasions. However, for the 
purpose of the record, the Chair will again direct the witness to 
answer that question. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 



616 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. MiNKUS. Which question is that, now ? 

Mr. SciiERER. I think we ought to have the question read. I don't 
want to interrupt too much, but I think we ought to have that question 
read and an answer to the question. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Reporter, will you please read the pending ques- 
tion? 

(The question was read.) 

Mr. EsTERMAN. Just a moment. There is more. 

Mr. Clardy. Just a moment, yourself. Mr. Chairman, it is quite 
obvious that the witness is fencing with us. I don't think the com- 
mittee should tolerate it for one more second, and I ask that he be 
categorically directed to either say that he did or did not. It is a 
simple question, and if he desires to rely upon the fifth amendment, 
he can decline upon that ground. Obviously, there is no basis for 
invoking the fifth amendment on that question. If he wishes to refuse 
to answer, he has that privilege, but I ask that he be directed to follow 
his answer with whatever explanation he wishes to give. 

This, I think, is extremely important at this juncture. 

Mr. Jackson. I think it should be perfectly clear at this time that 
the direction of the Chair will not avail in eliciting a clear-cut, 
straightforward answer to the question. 

However, again so that the matter may be absolutely clear, and 
for the last time on this particular question, the Chair will direct the 
witness to answer that question directly. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. MiNKUs. Mr. Chairman, I repeat the answer I have given 
previously, including the five points, and including the fir 3t and fifth 
amendments, and all of the grounds that I gave previously. 

Mr. Jackson. The Chair will say that he considers the answer to be 
inconclusive, indirect, and evasive, and does not constitute an answer 
to the question that was asked. 

Mr. MiNKUs. And furthermore I believe that the answer to that 
question is not pertinent. 

Mr. Clardy. May I suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the answer is ob- 
viously in contempt of the Congress, and I intend to take appropriate 
action following this session. 

Mr. Jackson. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Minkus, was there any attempt made, to your 
knowledge, by any group of Communists to infiltrate the Teachers' 
Union ? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. I repeat the answer I have previously given, includ- 
ing the five points, and including the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to call the committee's 
attention and the witness' attention to tlie statement he made, which 
appears on page 675 ^ of the transcript of the testimony. After hav- 
ing refused to answer a question, Mr. Minkus made the statement — 

Mr. Chairman, I wish to repeat again the answer that I gave before in full, 
and may it be considered that it is adopted in full without my repeating it, and 
I would like to incorporate vj'ithout repeating the earlier answer this addition, 
that the policies of the union are and have been determined by the membership 
in open meeting. 



1 Ibid., p. 549. 



COMMUlsriST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 617 

Now, in the view of the counsel, that is a waiver of any claim of 
privilege under the fifth amendment as to the subject matter of that 
additional statement, namely, the statement relative to the policies of 
the union being determined by the membership in open meeting. 

My question was directed to that matter, and having called that 
matter to the witness' attention, I would again like to request that 
he answer the question, 

Mr. Jackson. The witness is so directed. 

Mr. MiNKUS. "What is the question ? 

Mr. Tavennek. Will you read the question, please ? 

^The question was read.) 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Tavenner. May I add to the question, "or influence its policies." 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. MiNKTJS. I repeat the previous answer, including the five 
points and the first and fifth amendments, and not excluding any 
grounds which were adopted. 

Mr. Scherer. Now, Mr. Chairman, I wonder if we all recall the 
clever answer that was made by the witness originally on this point. 
He is repeating time and time again, "I repeat my original answer." 
The original answer to the question, to a certain question, was, "I 
refuse to answer that question yes or no," and then he went on the 
other day to enumerate the various reasons why he was not going to 
answer that question yes or no. 

Now, he is constantly repeating, "I am giving the same answer that 
1 did to the original question," which was, "I can't answer that ques- 
tion yes or no." 

I wonder if all of us realize the significance of what is happening 
here this morning. 

Mr. Jackson. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask that the chairman direct the witness to 
answer? 

Mr. Jackson. The witness is directed to answer "the question, 
which grows out of what I understand to be a voluntary statement on 
the part of the witness. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr, Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr, Minkus. May I have the question now ? 

Mr, Jackson, "Would the reporter kindly read the question ? 

(The question was read as follows: "Mr, Minkus, was there any 
attempt made, to your knowledge, by any group of Communists to 
infiltrate the Teachers' Union or influence its policies?") 

Mr, Esterman, There was more. 

The Reporter, I read the question with the addition, "or influence 
its policies," 

Mr, Jackson, The reporter has read the addition, 

Mr, Minkus, I give the same answer that I gave previously, that 
I stand on the answer I adopted, the answer I gave before in full, 
including the five points, including the first and fifth amendments, 
including the grounds I previously stated. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Scherer. See what happens 



618 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. EsTERMAN. Just R moment. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 

Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. And I feel it is not pertinent 

Mr. SciiERER. See what happens. He has not said he declines to 
answer this question. . „, . 

Mr. Jackson. That is obvious from the record. There is no clear- 
cut, direct answer. I believe, in relating it back to the gentleman's 
original statement, it will be quite obvious there has been no direct 
answer to the question. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Walter. That is his answer. Even if it isn't an answer, it is 
what he wants us to believe is an answer. 

Mr. Jackson. I stated it was not a direct answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is the same as remaining mute and refusing to 
answer at all. 

Mr. Walter. Surely. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you participate, Mr. Minkus, with other mem- 
bers of the Communist Party, as a Communist Party unit, in any 
attempt to influence the policies of the Teachers Union ? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. Mr. Tavenner, no matter how many times this kind 
of question is asked, I will give, as I give now, the answer which I 
have previously given, including the five points, including the first 
and fifth amendments and any other grounds which are contained 
therein. 

Mr. Tavenner. May the witness be directed to answer the question? 

Mr. Jackson. The witness is directed to answer. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. I give the same answer I previously gave. No matter 
how many times this kind of question is asked, I will give it again, 
that I stand on that answer, the five points included in it, the first 
and fifth amendments and any other grounds wliich were contained 
therein. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Clardy? 

Mr. Clardy. I think it would be a waste of time to propound fur- 
ther questions, because it is obvious that the familiar tactic of evasion 
would be pursued, no matter what might be asked. I, therefore, have 
no further questions at this time. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Walter ? 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Frazier? 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. I have several questions relative to other matters. 

Mr. Minkus, are you a member or associated with an organization 
known as the United Citizens' Committee for Better Schools? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. Is this listed as a subversive organization ? 

Mr. Jackson. Not to the best of my knowledge. I think I can say 
categorically it is not listed. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 619 

Mr. MiNKUs. Wliat is it ? 

Mr. Jackson. The United Citizens' Committee for Better Schools 
is an organization which was organized here in the city of Los 
Angeles, according to the information in the possession of the com- 
mittee, on the 26th of January 1953, which has as its avowed purpose 
the election of progressives in the spring election to the Los Angeles 
Board of Education. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. Mr. Chairman, do you regard this as a proper sub- 
ject of inquiry for this committee ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes; I regard anything as a proper subject for in- 
vestigation and interrogation by this committee which has affiliated 
with it a considerable number of individuals who are either them- 
selves members of the Commmiist Party or who have for many years 
followed the Communist Party line. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr, 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. Mr. Chairman, again I adopt the answer which I 
gave previous to a question of this kind, including the five points, in- 
cluding the first and fifth amendments, including all the grounds 
which I gave. 

Mr. Jackson. Information in the possession of the committee indi- 
cates that at the organizational meetings of the Citizens' Committee 
for Better Schools a plan was developed to obtain precinct lists of all 
the precincts of Los Angeles County to divide them up among various 
workers, and to do precinct work for the purpose of electing progres- 
sives to the Los Angeles Board of Education. 

Do you have any knowledge of any efforts which were made to ob- 
tain precinct sheets? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. This is the same kind of a question, Mr. Chairman, 
and I give the same answer. 

Mr. Clary. I ask he be directed to answer. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Jackson. I direct that the question be answered. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. I give the same answer I gave previously, including 
the five points, including the first and fifth amendments and all the 
grounds I gave. 

Mr. Jackson. Are you a member, Mr. Minkus, of the Citizens' Com- 
mittee for Freedom in Education, also a Los Angeles organization? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 
Mr. Minkus. Is that a subversive organization ? Wliat is it ? 
Mr. Jackson. I do not think it has been so cited. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. Have you listed it? 

Mr, Jackson. I can say categorically that it has not been listed. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the name ? 

Mr. Jackson, The Citizens' Committee for Freedom in Education. 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir ; I am confident it is not. 

Mr. Jackson. Let me check. 



620 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Jackson. There are a lot of citizens committees. There is a 
Citizens' Committee for Better Education, However, this is a Citi- 
zens' Committee for Freedom in Education. 

(At this point Mr. Minkns conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. Would you please say that again ? 

Mr. Jackson. There is listed in the Guide to Subversive Organiza- 
tions and Publications an organization called the Citizens' Committee 
for Better Education, which was cited as a Communist front in Los 
Angeles by the California Committee on Un-American Activities 
report of 1948, pages 198 and 199. That is the Citizens' Committee for 
Better Education. 

My question relates to an organization called the Citizens Com- 
mittee for Freedom in Education, and I can assure you it is not listed. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. I would ask the Chair to tell me what it is. 

Mr. Jackson. That is what the Chair is attempting to determine. 
My question is, Are you a member of it ? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, you are correct in stating it has not 
been listed. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. Mr. Chairman, would you be good enough to state, as 
you did before, what the basis for the inquiry is ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. The basis of the inquiry is to find out to what 
extent the Communist Party in the City of Los Angeles is attempting 
to influence the coming elections for the board of education in this city. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I repeat the 
answer which I gave previously to a similar question, including the 
five points, including the first and fifth amendments, and on the 
grounds I gave before. 

Mr. Jackson. Information in the possession of the committee indi- 
cates that on December 1, 1952, a meeting of the Citizens' Committee 
for Freedom in Education was held at 8 p. m. at Stanley Hall, 1057 
North Stanley Avenue, West Hollywood. 

Did you attend that meeting? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. The same answer which I gave previously, including 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Jackson. The announced speakers at that meeting were Mrs. 
Francis K. Eisenberg and Mrs. Jean Benson Wilkinson. Are you 
acquainted with either of the individuals in question? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. I give the same answer which I gave previously, in- 
cluding the five points and the first and fifth amendments, and the 
other grounds which I gave. 

Mr. Jackson. The information in the possession of the committee 
indicates that the two individuals, Mrs. Eisenberg and Mrs. Wilkin- 
son, are presently under suspension from their positions as teachers in 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 621 

the Los Angeles County school system for refusing to answer ques- 
tions regarding their alleged Communist Party memberships. 

Information in the possession of the committee indicates that on 
Friday, December 5, notices were sent out, which notices were affixed 
to bulletin boards in the various teachers' rooms, with particular ref- 
erence to the Cheremoya Street School in Hollywood. 

The notices announced a meeting to be held at Humanists Hall, 
2308 South Hoover Street, on December 10, 1952. 

Were you in attendance at that meeting? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. What meeting? Whose meeting? 

Mr. Jackson. This was a meeting of either the United Citizens* 
Committee for Better Schools or the Citizens' Committee for Freedom 
in Education. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Minkus. Which one, Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Jackson. Did you attend a meeting at the time and place 
stated, held by the United Citizens' Committee for Better Schools? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. I adopt the answer which I gave previously, including 
the five points, the first and fifth amendments, and the grounds I pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Jackson. Did you attend the meeting at that location on that 
date sponsored by the Citizens' Committee for Freedom in Education ? 

Mr. Minkus. I give the same answer, including the five points, first 
and fifth amendments, and previous comments. 

. Mr. Jackson. Information in the possession of the committee indi- 
cates that on the evening of December 10 you were at Humanists Hall, 
2308 South Hoover Street. Is that information false or is it correct? 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. Is that the same date ? 

INIr. Jackson. That is on the evening of December 10, at Humanists 
Hall. 

Mr. Minkus. That is one of the meetings which you referred to 
earlier ? 

Mr. Jackson. That is correct. 

Mr. Minkus. And in response to a question concerned which I gave 
an answer ? 

Mr. Jackson. That is correct. 

Mr. Minkus. I repeat again the answer which I gave previously, 
including the five points, the first and fifth amendments, and the 
grounds which I previously stated. 

Mr. Jackson. Information in the possession of the committee indi- 
cates that on the occasion of the December 10 meeting in Humanists 
Hall, a moving picture, IG-millimeter film, Man Who Hates Children, 
was shown. 

It is indicated that the Man Wlio Hates Children hates them be- 
cause he is a capitalist, he is afraid if more schools are built he will be 
forced to pay additional taxes. For this reason he is opposed to 



622 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

UNESCO, opposed to the Communist Party, and supports loyalty 
oatlis and book burning. 

Was a picture of that nature shown on the date in question? 

(At til is point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Minkus. I feel that is substantially the same question, and I 
give the same answer I gave previously, including the five points, the 
first and fifth amendments, and the grounds which I previously gave. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Jackson. I do not wish to unduly prolong the interrogation of 
this witness. However, I think it should be stated that the committee 
is in possession of a considerable amount of information relative to 
these organizations and relative to the people who are participating 
in them. That is not to say, by any means, that all the people who 
are in these groups are Communists or fellow travelers. 

However, it is quite obvious, from a very cursory examination of the 
documentation which is presently available, that almost every known 
Communist, every known fellow traveler in the city of Los Angeles 
is in one way or another connected with one or another of these 
organizations. 

(At this point Mr. Minkus conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Jackson. It is a matter that is of considerable interest to every- 
one who is interested in communism and its propaganda activities. 
During the course of my remarks I inadvertently named the Los 
Angeles County School System, where I should have said the Los 
Angeles City School System. 

I have no further questions. Are there any further questions by the 
committee. 

(No response.) 

Mr. Jackson. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

(Representative Clyde Doyle reentered the hearing room at this 
point, 10: 15 a. m.) 

Mr. Jackson. Is the witness here in answer to a legal subpena ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. You do not have a copy of the subpena at the present 
time? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Harry Shepro. 

Mr. Esterman. The witness is in the room. He is here in response 
to a subpena. He will not appear before any apparatus, broadcast- 
ing, television, video, picture, or any apparatus of that kind. 

Mr. Jackson. In line with the policy adopted by the committee, 
the subpena will be extended until Tuesday, April 7. 

Call another witness, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. Rose Posell. 

Mr. Esterman. This witness is in the room. May I, by reference, 
incorporate the remarks I made about the previous witness, with re- 
spect to appearance before television? 

Mr. Jackson. I prefer to have the witness make her own request 
in that connection. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 623 

Mr. EsTERMAN. Will you turn off the cameras while she is making 
the request? 

Mr. Jackson. The cameras will not be played on her. 

Miss PosELL. I do not want to appear before television cameras, 
radio, or any apparatus at all. 

Mr, Jackson. Very well. In line with the announced policy of the 
committee, your wishes will be respected. Your subpena will be ex- 
tended until Tuesday, April 7. 

Mr. Esterman, in order that we may keep the record absolutely 
straight, I would like to have your other witness make the same request 
at this time on his own. 

Mr. EsTERMAX. Which other witness ? 

Mr. Jackson. The witness just called before the lady. 

Mr. Tav-enner. The former witness was Harry Shepro. 

Mr. Esterman. He has been photographed many times. May we 
also request "he not be photographed while he is addressing the 
committee ? 

Mr. Jackson. I cannot undertake to place any restriction on the 
news photographers. 

Mr. Shepro. I wish to make the request I not be televised, no radio, 
no video, or any apparatus. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. The previous instructions as to the ex- 
tension of the subpena stands. 

Wlio is your next witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Serrill Gerber. 

Mr. Esterman. Mr. Gerber is in the room. He wants to make the 
same request. 

Mr. Gerber. I would repeat the request. I would prefer not to 
be before television or the radio. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you refuse to appear before television or radio? 

Mr. Gerber. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. The subpena will be extended until Tues- 
day, April 7. 

Your next witness. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Norman T. Byrne. 

Mr. Jackson. Is Mr. Byrne in the hearing room? 

(No response.) 

Mr. Jackson. Is Mr. Byrne represented ? Is there a counsel in the 
hearing room for Mr. Byrne ? 

(No response.) 

Mr. Tavenner. I can't recall definitely. Was Mr. Byrne the wit- 
ness instructed to be here today because of mechanical difficulty with 
his automobile? 

Mr. Chairman, I can't definitely say in my own mind. 

May I suggest that you ask one of the sergeants-at-arms to call his 
name in the corridor? 

A Voice. I have. 

Mr. Jackson. That has already been done. The record will show 
when the witness' name was called he was not present in the hearing 
room. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then I would like to call Mr. Dwight Hauser. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Hauser, is he in the hearing room? 

31747— 53— pt. 3 2 



624 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that 
in the testimony you are about to give before the committee, that you 
will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Jackson. Please be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF DWIGHT HAUSER 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir? 

Mr. Hauser. D wight Hauser. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Hauser ? 

Mr. Hauser. Twin Falls, Idaho, July 4, 1911. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation, Mr. Hauser? 

Mr. Hauser. I am a radio director. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
formal educational training has consisted of ? 

Mr. Doyle. May I interrupt? I notice he has no lawyer with 
him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. I wonder if he wishes one. 

Mr. Hauser. No, I do not. 

Mr. Doyle. You understand you are always entitled to your own 
private counsel 

Mr. Hauser. I do. 

Mr. Doyle. By your side, before this committee ? 

Mr. Hauser, I do. 

Mr. Doyle. We always want the witness to understand. 

Mr. Hauser. I understand that, sir. 

Mr. Doyle, It is your choice, then, that you have no attorney here? 

Mr. Hauser. It is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hauser, will you spell your name, please? 

Mr. Hauser. H-a-u-s-e-r. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the first name is? 

Mr. Hauser. Dwight, D-w-i-g-h-t. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, Mr. Hauser, will you tell us, please, what 
your formal educational training has been ? 

Mr. Hauser. I graduated from high school in 1929, I entered a 
private school of the theater in 1936 and graduated from that school 
in 1938. 

Mr. Taat.nner, Will you tell the committee, please, briefly what 
your record of employment has been since 1938, and where? 

Mr, Hauser. I fooled around with little-theater work for a couple 
of years after graduation. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was that, in what city ? 

Mr. Hauser. Here in Los Angeles, and for 1 month in Texas. 

I then became a radio director for the Federal theater project for 
about a year. 

Mr. Tavenner, That would have been in what, about what date? 

Mr. Hauser, That would have been about 1940 or along between 
1940, '41, approximatley. I went to Pasadena as the progi-am director 
of a local radio station in 1941, 1 believe. 

Following that I came to Hollywood as a staff writer for one of the 
networks. 



CORIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 625 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a staff writer ? 

Mr. Hauser. From 1941 to 1943— no, I beg your pardon. Until 
1945. But I didn't come there until 1942, 1 believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your next employment ? 

Mr. Hauser. As a combination director-writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat type of director ? 

Mr. Hauser. A radio director, at another network. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you speak just a little louder? 

Mr. Hauser. At another network. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did that continue ? 

Mr. Hauser. Up until the present moment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us the names of the radio networks 
you have worked for? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. I was a writer for the Columbia Broadcasting 
System and I am currently employed by the American Broadcasting 

Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hauser, during the period of time that you were 
employed from 1938 up until the present time — I mean during any 
part of that period, were you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. During what period of time? 

Mr. Hauser. Summer of 1943 to late in 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been affiliated with the Communist Party 
in any manner since 1945 ? 

Mr. Hauser. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. I notice that you were with the Federal theater 
project earlier than 1943. I believe it was along about 1940, if my 
notes are correct. 

Mr. Hauser. Yes, I was a director for that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any 
time while you were working as a radio director for the Federal theater 
project ? 

Mr. Hauser. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. We have had considerable testimony during the 
course of this hearing of the existence of a Communist Party cell in a 
Federal theater project in New York City, and how that Communist 
Party cell used its members to infiltrate that organization. 

Did you observe any Communist Party influence in the project that 
you were a member of here in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Hauser. No, not at the time that I was there. My later experi- 
ences, which put me in a position to be a little more aware of Com- 
munist activities, lead me to believe that there was absolutely none. 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me. It is a little difficult for us to hear. 

Mr. Hauser. I am sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you raise your voice ? 

Mr. Hauser. I am a director ; I am usually on the other side of the 
mike. 

I say that I noticed none at the time, and my experience later, which 
put me in a position to know something more about the Communist 
Party activities, leads me to believe that there was none of any nature 
within the radio division of the Federal Theater project. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. Will you tell the committee, please, the circum- 
stances under which you first became interested in the Communist 
Party to the extent that you joined it? 



626 COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Hauser. I was interested in enhancing, through the means of 
radio, the problems of the war effort. I have a sincere, deep, and 
abiding hatred for racial prejudices. I became particularly aware of 
them as they were practiced in Germany. I still feel very strong we 
are the subject of anti-Semitism, inequality for Negroes. I felt that 
way at that time, and I understood that the Communist Party was 
dedicated to the same ideals. The people who were influential in 
recruiting me, I feel, were of the same opinion as I. I thought that 
as an individual I could do little ; as part of an organization dedicated 
to these aims I might add my voice. I felt that the reasons for which 
I joined the Communist Party were very American and unsubversive. 
For those reasons I joined it. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was in 1943 ? 

Mr. Hauser. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us the name of the person or persons 
whom you contacted in order to get into the Communist Party, or 
whether that was done by your own initiative, or whether your mem- 
bership was solicited? 

Mr. Hauser. I presume that in many discussions I had made my 
position as a liberal fairly clear, and apparently it was felt that I would 
be receptive to the aims as stated to me at the time. A very good 
friend of mine, whose character and ideals I admired, whose intel- 
lectual capabilities impressed me, talked to me about this and asked 
me if I wouldn't like to associate myself with a group of people who 
w^ere of the same opinions as I. 

I wonder if it might not be possible to pass over this man's name 
for the moment, because this is a man who left the party at about the 
same time I did for the same reasons that I did. I think that it might 
serve justice if his name be brought into this 

Mr. Tavenner. You say to pass it over for the moment. In other 
words, I will ask you then, before you leave the witness stand, more 
in detail. 

Mr. Hauser. Very well, 

Mr. Tavenner. All right, sir. Well, after you joined the Com- 
munist Party did you continue in your belief as to the purposes of 
the party as indicated in j^our reasons for joining the party? 

Mr. Hauser. Well, yes, for a time. After joining it and attending 
a few of the meetings, I was quite disappointed because it didn't seem 
to me that anything was being accomplished along these lines to 
amount to anything. It was mostly discussions among people who 
were already convinced of the right ness of assisting the war effort in 
any way possible. But, as far as I could see, it never got beyond the 
talking stage, and I was a little disappointed that nothing more was 
done about it than that. 

I dropped out for a short time because of this. I felt that it was 
very, very ineffectual. Later on apparently there was some reor- 

ganization and an attempt to get a more cohesive unit working in this 
ranch, and I was asked if I wouldn't come back and I said I would 
and did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. You say "this branch." "Wliat 
branch of the Communist Party was that ? 

Mr. Hauser. This was a special branch. I believe it was referred 
to as the radio branch. This is the only thing I ever heard it called. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 627 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you were telling us about having dropped out 
of the group and then rejoining it. 

Mr. Hauser. Well, I just didn't attend meetings for a while, was all. 

1 wouldn't say it was a formal dropping out of it. I just lost interest 
in it. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was it that caused your interest to be revived ? 

Mr. Hauser. Well, there had been the feeling among everybody in 
the group that the actions taken were completely ineffectual, that they 
had accomplished nothing during this first period that I belonged, and 
it was apparently the idea that an effort would be made to do some- 
thing about this ; the idea was that we were going to now go ahead 
and do something concrete in an attempt to achieve those aims. 

Mr. Tavenner. What brought about this new spirit within the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Hauser. Well, I don't think that this was a new spirit within 
the Communist Party. I think that this particular group had been 
extremely lax all along, and that it was finally decided to get them 
in line with the rest of the party, which proved to be pretty impossible, 
because these people were not dedicated Marxists by any manner of 
means; for the most part just liberal people who believed in getting 
on with the war effort and doing everything within their power, at 
least, to help that. 

Mr. Ta-^t.nner. Let's go into that a little bit further. Up until the 
time of this change in attitude that you speak of which resulted in 
your attending meetings again, were high functionaries of the party 
called upon from time to time to take part in the meetings ? 

Mr. Hauser. No, we never saw any of them, at least I never did in 
any of the meetings I ever attended. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a regular attendant at the meetings until 
the time you first dropped out ? 

Mr. Hauser. No, I wouldn't — it would be irregular. I would 
say maybe I would attend 2 meetings and then miss 1 and then attend 

2 and miss 1. I didn't go regularly. 

Mr. Tavenner. (3ver how long a period of time did you attend 
meetings in that fashion before you ceased to attend ? 

Mr. Hauser. Oh, probably 6 months, I presume. 

Mr. Tavenner. What effort was made to indoctrinate the members 
in Communist F'arty philosophy and theory during that period of 
time? 

Mr. Hauser. None that I ever was aware of, except that literature 
was brought to meetings and offered for sale. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Now, you were attending that Com- 
munist Party group up until the time that you ceased attending the 
meetings, then you began attending at a later time. 

Mr. Hauser. Yes, I would say probably 3 months later, something 
like that. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. What caused the change in attitude on 
your part that would result in your again attending meetings? 

Mr. Hauser. Well, I joined it in the first place because I felt that 
I wanted to add my voice to the aims, as I understood them, which 
were furtherance of the war effort, certain liberal legislation within 
the framework of our Government. And I didn't feel at first that 
anything was being accomplished along these lines, because of the 
laxity of the organization. 



628 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Now, I was told that we were going to get together and push these 
things, and so I went back, attending meetings, for the same reason 
that I joined in the first place, that I thought this would be possible. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlio were taking the lead in that matter at the 
time that you came back and started attendance at meetings again? 

Mr. Hauser. There was no formal leadership in this group at the 
time I belonged to it. A chairman was elected in each meeting, and 
was somebody different. There was absolutely no person that you 
could say was the leader. 

Mr. TA^^SNNER. Well, will you tell us about the operations of the 
group after you came back the second time, for the second period ?  

Mr. Hauser. Yes. It was pretty much the same. There was a little 
more talk about these efforts, the war effort and what we can do about 
racial discrimination and fair employment, but it turned out to be 
just talk, and everybody didn't know what their function would be^ 
certainly not within the radio district. 

And then about this time a change took place in the Communist 
Party, and I recall between meetings the whole line seemed to switch 
completely, the thing that we had been told we were supposed to be 
standing for. In 1 meeting we were for the war effort, for measures 
calculated to help the economy of the Nation as a capitalist economy^ 
not to overthrow it. 

And people that we had supported for office suddenly, between 
meetings — well, we were told that this was all wrong, we had been 
completely wrong in the past. Now it was to be this way. I took the 
stand 

Mr. Tavenner. What did you mean by "this way" ? 

Mr. Hauser. Well, we were not supposed to support the men and 
principles that we had supported in the past. As I had undei-stood, 
during the war the Communist Party in this branch had — the idea 
was not to change the economy to a Communist economy, but to help 
make it one that ^e had worked for. Now we were told that we were 
wrong in our support of these men and principles, and that we were 
now going to study Communist literature; we were going to be in- 
doctrinated into communism. 

I took the stand if we were so wrong in the past, I didn't see how 
we could be so sure we were going to be so right in the future. That 
was a fairly unpopular viewpoint among some of the members. How- 
ever, there were a good many that agreed with me and after this 
meeting I left it and never did come back. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall wliether or not the Duclos letter had 
any part to play in that change of attitude 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. I think that was the motivating idea behind 
the change. I remember discussing this matter that I didn't feel 
that somebody in France whom I had never heard of should dictate 
my behavior and my thinking. Because of that I would presume that 
the Duclos letter was tlie cause of the switch in the party line. 

INIr. Tavenner. Well, now, what do you mean by stating that you 
did not agree with having someone dictate the manner of your think- 
ing? 

Mr. Hauser. Well, as I stated, we had all gone on thinking one 
way, which was apparently all right up to a point, and I guess it musf. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 629 

have been. Then when this letter came out we were told that the 
way we had been thinking was all wrong; now we must follow this 
line. 

I don't know what it said. I have never read the Duclos letter. I 
don't know what it said, but I just disagreed with it on principle, be- 
cause that one man made up his mind it was to be this way that every- 
body connected with it would have to follow blindly, and I didn't 
want to do it, and so I didn't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall who it was that brought this message 
or that directive to your group ? 

Mr. Hauser. I cannot be certain which person it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it a member of your group ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Or was it 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Or was it from a higher level in the party ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes; it was a member of the group. I could only- 
guess as to who it was. 

Mr. TAVENNEii. Well, I don't want you to guess. 

Mr. Hauser. I don't know positively. 

Mr. Jackson. You expressed some surprise, because you didn't 
want anyone directing your thinking. Hadn't vour thinking been 
directed from the day you entered the Communist I*arty ? 

Mr. Hauser. No ; no ; not in this branch. 

Mr. Jackson. It had not been? 

Mr. EUusER. No. 

Mr. Jackson. You were a free agent, you had freedom of speech, 
you had freedom of debate, and freedom to do all the things you 
would do in an American organization ? 

Mr. Hauser. In this particular branch that is true. 

Mr. Jackson. Well, that is the most unusual Communist Party 
branch we have ever heard of. 

Mr. Hauser. I think that this was extremely unusual. 

Mr. Jackson. I will correct that to say that the committee has 

heard of. 

Mr. Hauser. I would agree, certainly, that this was an unusual 
branch, and I thinly that this was the result of the people that were 
recruited into it. At that time it was fairly easy — it wasn't very dif- 
ficult in those days to recruit people of liberal tendencies into the 
Communist Party as long as the aims seemed to be the aims of the 
Government of the United States, and this was what we were told. _ 

I do not think the intention was that we remain that way, but it 
was the way I think we were recruited into the party. 

Mr. Clardy. They just hadn't found it necessary to crack the whip 
because you went along automatically? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes ; we went along with everything that everybody 
else in the countr}^ was going along with at that time. When they 
finally did crack the whip, they found out who the ones were that were 
not going to go along with them. 

Mr. Clardy. Separated the sheep from the goats at that time. 

Mr. Hauser. Well, maybe the goats from the goats. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. How many folks were in this group at the time of the 
receipt of the Duclos letter or approximately ? 



630 COMMUNIST ACTrV^TIES EST THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Hauser. I would say there were about 18. 

Mr. Doyle. How many of them, to your knowledge, did what you 
did at the same time you did it or about the same time — in other 
words, dropped out? 

Mr. Hauser. At or about the same time that I did ? 

Mr. Doyle. As a result of the Duclos letter. 

Mr. Hauser. To my knowledge, about four people at that time. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, about 20 percent? 

Mr. Hauser. Something like that, I would say. 

Mr. Doyle. Were you told by any of the others at an approximate 
later date that they also had dropped out on account of the Duclos 
letter ? 

Mr. Hauser. Well, 2 of these 4 that I have referred to did at a 
later date, but not very long after that. 

Mr. Doyle. I notice you said, and I will ask you this question : You 
said the purpose changed from supporting a capitalistic economy to 
the theory of overthrowing the Government by force ? 

Mr. Hauser. No ; I dicbi't say that. I don't think I said that. At 
least, that is not what I meant to say. I said that there had been 
no — that we had been told to support — the purpose of this branch was 
to support the capitalistic economy. 

Mr. Doyle. Did it ever come to the knowledge of your group that 
the purpose of the Duclos letter might be to overthrow the capitalistic 
economy instead of supporting it? You have used the term "over- 
throw." 

Mr. Hauser. It seemed to me that the Duclos letter was in line with 
the policies of the Soviet Union rather than the policies of the United 
States, and I certainly would assume from that that the Soviet Union 
would wish to overthrow the United States, and if you followed the 
policies of the Soviet Union, then I think you would be attempting to 
overthrow the capitalistic system ; yes. 

Mr. Doyle. When did you come to that conclusion ? 

Mr. Hauser. Well, at the time of the Duclos letter, I guess. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, that is what I am getting at. What changed 
or what caused you to realize, if anything did, that the purpose of the 
Soviet Union was to overthrow the capitalistic system? 

Mr. Hauser. Really, the actions of the Soviet Union. I believe 
that had more to do with it than anything else, at any one time. They 
had been our ally and everybody was pretty much, apparently, in favor 
of them and suddenly the ]:)icture changed and they went all out to do 
everything they could against us. It seemed to me then that to sup- 
port the policies of a foreign government that was apparently dedi- 
cated to our own destruction as was the Soviet Union, was the wrong 
thing to do. 

Mr. DoY7.E. In other words, as you said, the Duclos letter was the 
cause of a switch in the line. 

Mr. Hauser. I think so. 

Mr. Doyle. And you had to make a choice, and 3^ou chose to get out 
of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes : yes, that is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you stated that you were told that your think- 
ing had been wrong, can you be more definite as to what it was, in 
your thinking, that you were told had been wrong? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 631 

Mr. Hausek. Well, I got the impression that the things that we had 
been standing for, the support of the war effort, the support of meas- 
ures calculated to strengthen the present economy of our Nation, that 
those things were now wrong; that this had been a mistake. We 
should not have done this. 

And I went into the Communist Party with no intention of ever 
doing anything else but that, and when I found the Communist Party 
was going to be different than that I got out of it. 

Mr. Ta\t5Nner. Now, how quickly was it you got out after the 
Duclos letter? 

Mr. PIauser. This one meeting where I have the argument was 
the last one I ever attended. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was any effort made to get you back into the party 
on any occasion ? 

Mr. Hauser. No. I got a pretty distinct feeling that they felt 
that they were pretty well rid of me. 

Mr. Tavenner, You said there were about, possibly as many as 
18 in that group in radio. Were there 18 members at any one time, 
or did that compose all the members that were members at one time 
or at different times? 

Mr. Hauser. That composed all of the members that I ever knew 
of in that group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you give us the names of the members of 
that group, please ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes ; but may I preface this by saying that some of 
the people removed themselves from this group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes; I think it is quite proper that where you 
know of your own knowledge that a person did leave the party 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. To so state. 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And in giving the names of the members I would 
want you to also tell me what positions they occupied from time to 
time in that group in the way of leadership, importance in leader- 
ship, if you can. 

Mr. Hauser. Mr. Tavenner, I would be happy to do this, but as I 
say, there was no leadership in this group. This was an extremely 
lax organization. There was no permanent structure to it whatso- 
ever, and there just wasn't anybody, any person who could be con- 
sidered a leader of that group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you this question : Wliat dues did you 
pay? 

Mr. Hauser. I believe that it was $2 a meeting, but my memory may 
be hazy on that point. I didn't pay too much attention. 

Mr. Tavenner. To whom did you pay your dues ? 

Mr. Hauser. At each meeting the financial director or financial 
chairman was appointed or elected by the group and that person 
collected the dues. I cannot specifically recall actually any one indi- 
vidual that I paid dues to, although I know it was to somebody in 
the group, and I saved none of the receipts or anything of that nature. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you act in any capacity in the group in a dif- 
ferent way from the other people who served ? 

Mr. Hauser, I never did serve as a chairman or anything like 
that. 



632 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. You did not? 

Mr. Hauser. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever serve as dues secretary ? 

Mr. Hauser. No, I never served in any position except to go to 
the meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall who was the educational director of 
the group? 

Mr. Hauser. No. Again, as I say, we had no permanent director. 
I believe it worked this way, if I can recall correctly : At one meeting 
the literature director for the next meeting was appointed, and it was 
never necessarily the same person. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. If you will proceed then to tell us who 
were members of this group. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Counsel 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, excuse me. 

Mr. Jackson. When you reach a convenient breaking point we 
will take a recess. 

Mr. Tavenner. Possibly this is a good time. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. The committee will stand in recess until 
6 minutes after 11. 

(At this point a recess was taken from 10 : 35 a. m. to 11 : 05 a. m.) 

AFTER recess 

Mr. Jackson. The committee will be in order. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hauser, will you give the committee, please, 
the names of persons who were members of this radio group of the 
Communist Party at the same time you were ? 

Mr. Hauser. There was Owen Vinson, Paul Marion. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell the last name? 

Mr. Hauser. M-a-r-i-o-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you identify the person a little more fully? 

Mr. Hauser. Well, he was at the time a radio actor. He is now a 
moving-picture actor and I believe he has appeared before this com- 
mittee. Georgia Backus. Harmon Alexander. Abe Burrows. 

(Representative Kit Clardy reentered the hearing room at this 
point, 11: 14 a. m.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall any particular incidents that oc- 
curred which would emphasize the fact that you know that Abe 
Burrows was a member of this group with you ? 

Mr. Hauser. Other than the fact that he attended several of the 
meetings that I attended. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was a meeting ever held in his home ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes, I believe there were 2; possibly only 1 in Abe 
Burrows' home. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you approximate the time or the date when 
the meeting or meetings were held in his home ? 

Mr. Hauser. I believe this would have been very early in my mem- 
bership, which would place it sometime probably early in 1944. This 
is only, however, an approximation. I didn't keep records of this. I 
didn't realize I would ever need them. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Hauser. Sam Moore. 

Mr. Tavenner. Sam Moore. 

Mr. Hauser. Annette Harper. 

Ml'. Tavenner. Annette Harper. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 633 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Hauser. Naomi Robeson. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is the spelling of Robeson ? 

Mr. Hauser. R-o-b-e-s-o-n, I believe. Lynn Whitney. 

Mr, Tavenner. Lynn Whitney. 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. Karen Kinsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the first name? 

Mr. Hauser. Karen, K-a-r-e-n, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. The last name ? 

Mr. Hauser. Kinsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell it ? 

Mr. Hauser. I presume it would be K-i-n-s-e-1. I don't know for 
sure on it. The best of my knowledge, the rest of the people I knew 
in this group left it at about, at or about the same time I did, and 
for the same reasons I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, let me ask you this: Do you know whether 
Henry Blankf ort was a member of this group ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes ; he was. I am sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he active in the affairs of this group ? 

Mr. Hauser. Henry Blankf ort came into the .group sometime after 
T did, and I was under the impression that he was assigned to this 
group by some other group, in order to straighten it out and make it 
function as a Communist Party group was supposed to function, 
which it nearly had done, and to my knowledge never did do up until 
tile time I got out of it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell the committee what members of this 
group took the lead in putting over the Communist Party line that the 
Duclos letter was to be accepted and the theories of Browder should 
be treated as a mistake ? 

Mr. Hauser. I would say that the leadership along those lines would 
have been taken by Henry Blankfort, Georgia Backus, and Harmon 
Alexander. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Pauline Hopkins ? 

Mr. Hauser. Ihaveheardof Pauline Hopkins; yes. I did not know 
her as a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Murray Wagner ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of this group ? 

Mr. Hauser. He is the one that I spoke of earlier. He is the man 
who recruited me and who left the party, I believe, before I did, to my 
knowledge. 

(Representative Kit Clardy re-entered the hearing room at this 
point, 11 : 15 a. m.) 

Mr. Tavenner. If he left the party before you did, at about what 
time did he leave the party ? 

Mr. Hauser. I believe he was called into the Army sometime in 1944, 
and when he came back from the Army, it would have been after I left 
the party, he came to my home and told me how disturbed he was over 
the turn of events. 

It was my understanding at that time that he had determined to 
sever his connection with the party. I haven't seen a great deal of him 
since then, but to my knowledge that was his intention at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Paul McVey ? 



634 COJMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a member of this group ? 

Mr. Hauser. He was. And he, according to what he has told me, 
left it shortly after I did for the same reasons that I left it. I see him 
quite often. He is a radio actor in town, and he and I have discussed 
this matter several times, and it my understanding that he has abided 
by his decision to leave the party, not be identified with it or its front 
organizations. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with a person by the 
name of Roy Erwin ? 

Mr. Hauser. Roy 

Mr. Tavtsnner. Roy Erwin. 

Mr. Hauser. Erwin ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Erwin. 

Mr. Hauser. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the correct spelling of his last name? 

Mr. Hauser. I believe it is E-r-w-i-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he affiliated with this group at any time ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes ; he was brought in as a member in the meeting in 
which I broke oif relations, so our brush in the party was very short, 
I would say about half an hour, because I left the meeting early. 
When I got into this argument about whether or not to follow this new 
line, or not, and determined not to, I left the meeting early, but he came 
to his first meeting about half an hour before I left it. 

I believe he was brought in by Nina Klowden. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who? 

Mr. Hauser. Nina Klowden. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us' the spelling of the last name, 
please ? 

Mr. Hauser. K-1-o-w-d-e-n, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Nina Klowden? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. It is my understanding that Roy Erwin stayed 
in the party about 3 months, and he also came to me and discussed 
the way the thing had turned, and indicated to me that he was com- 
pletely disillusioned with it, that it did not turn out to be what it had 
been represented to be. That was my understanding, that he left the 
party after about 3 months. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he returned to the party at a 
later date at the instance of a Government agency? 

Mr. Hauser. I did not know this until 2 or 3 days ago, but I have 
been told by Roy Erwin since then that he did return to this branch 
of the party as an a<rent of the Government. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has occurred Avithin your career or experience 
since 1045, at the time you say you left the Communist Party, which 
would indicate your opposition to the Communist Party since that 
time? 

Mr. Hauser. I have at every possible opportunity in my writing 
with radio programs tried to bring out things American in support of 
this country. There are a good many of those radio scripts that are on 
record that I suppose could be brought to this committee, if they would 
care to see them. I have not actively taken part in any organiza- 
tions of any kind since that time, but have given of my time as a 
writer and a director to various agencies of the Government, and Red 



COIVTMTJNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 635 

Cross blood banks', and heart program, and things of that nature, 
which I consider to be of vahie to the Nation. 

I have just conchided a series of radio programs based upon the 
principles of American justice, which I think have spoken pretty well 
of my beliefs along that line. I believe they are calculated to instill 
a feeling of pride and support of the Government of the United States. 

Mr. Tan^enner. When was a subpena served on you to appear as a 
witness before this committee ? 

Mr. Hauser. I believe it was a week ago — 2 weeks ago Wednesday, 
I believe; 2 weeks from this last Wednesday. 

Mr. Tavenner. "WHiat action did you take when a subpena was 
served on you ? What did you do about it ? 

Mr. Hauser. W^ell, I was asked if I wanted to get a lawyer or if 
I wanted to discuss the matter with the investigator, and I said yes, 
that I would gladly discuss it, which we did. This was in the evening, 
the supena was served on me. 

The next morning I came into the place where I am employed and 
told my immediate superiors what had occurred and what I intended 
to do about it, and met with, T would say, a surprising reaction to me 
because I had naturally expected this for about 8 years. 

When the sword fell it Avasii't quite as sharp as I thought it was 
going to be. I received from my employers wholehearted support 
of my stand. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that support given to you on the theory that 
you were going to be honest about this matter and that you were going 
to tell the committee what you knew and answer the questions regard- 
ing your knowledge of the Communist Party activities? 

Mr. Hauser. Well, yes ; I presumed that was assumed that I would 
be, or otherwise I would have been 

Mr. Tavenner. And did you make an explanation yourself to your 
employer ? 

Mr. Hauser. Oh, yes; yes, I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. What your part in this enterprise had been? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes, yes, I did. 

Mr. Tav'enner. And belief was expressed in the truthfulness of 
your statements? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, I interrupted you. Wliat was the result of 
your talking to your employer in this manner? 

Mr. Hauser. Well, within about a half-hour after I told him this 
I was back in the studios producing radio shows, which was something 
of a surprise to me. I have been producing radio shows for them 
ever since and I presume that I will continue to do so after today. 
At least it has been indicated to me that no economic sanctions would 
be imposed upon me for coming here and telling this committee what 
I know. 

I believe that the official attitude of the company was if any em- 
ployee of that company had any specialized knowledge which a body 
of the United States Government wanted, the fact that that person 
gave that testimony would in no way have any bearing on their job. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is if it were given truthfully and in good faith ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes, of course, which to the best of my knowledge I 
have done. I am not trying to hide anything. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions. 



636 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Clardy. I have just one or two, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. For a long time and until these hearings started back 
in Washington, and then some of them were held in Michigan before 
I went on the committee, but particularly since we have been out here, 
along with others, I have been puzzled over how men of intelligence, 
•which you obviously possess, could ever be led off into this path that 
leads ultimately to the destruction of the American system. 

I want to let you know that I appreciate your explanation along 
with that given by the other witnesses, because I think you are 
enabling a lot of people about the country, particularly in this section, 
to understand why it is this sickness seems to creep over ])eople and 
then eventually, if they are made of the right stuff, they throw it off. 

I wanted to ask you this : Is there anything concrete that you have 
to suggest that would accelerate the speed with which we can bring 
people back to a realization and understanding of what communism 
really is all about. 

Mr. Hauser. Well, yes, I believe that Communist propaganda and 
Communist literature should be made available to the people. I think 
if I had ever read any of it before I joined the Communist Party I 
never would have joined it. I don't believe that very many people — 
I think that the efforts of recruiting people into the Communist Party 
follow the lines of approaching people of liberal thought, people 
who were not indoctrinated into Marxism, into Marxist communism. 
They try to get them into the party and then after that indoctrinate 
them into these philosophies, and I would think if these philosophies 
and propaganda were made public knowledge that it certainly would 
deter most anybody from making this mistake or being a victim of 
this deception, which I consider that it was, but a calculated one, 
although I believe that the United States was the victim of the same 
deception but on a larger scale nationally for a while, 

Mr. Clardy. You mean by that that not all of the people, but at 
least some of them, were misled? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes ; I think our Government was misled for a while. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, now, to come back to the question I asked before : 
Do you have in mind anything specific, definite, or concrete by way 
of legislation that you think we could suggest to the Congress, and 
by "we" I mean this committee? 

Mr. Hauser. I don't really believe that the problem can be cured 
by legislation. I don't know that it would be of any particular value 
to outlaw the Communist Party. Those dedicated to Marxist com- 
munism would still continue to work whether it was legal or illegal. 
It might deter some people from joining it under a deception. 

I don't know that I particularly favor outlawing the Communist 
Party as a means of fighting it. I am not sure that it would help a 
lot. I think the two great political parties that we have in the coun- 
try today offer a better opportunity to fight it. 

A political neophyte such as I was when I got into the Communist 
Party — you go along up to a certain age, not caring a great deal about 
public affairs of piiolic problems, but some of us eventually become 
interested in these things and we want to find an area of expression 
for these things. 

If you belong to the Republican or Democratic Parties, mostly you 
go along and vote once in a while, which seems to me that the Com- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 637 

mimists have adopted, they have adopted the theory that there should 
be an effort to indoctrinate people into their way of thinking and 
maybe if the Democratic and Republican Parties would do the same 
thing with the younger people of the country that they would accom- 
plish something. 

Mr. Jackson. We all work at it. 

Mr. Hauser. Yes ; I know that, but unfortunately the Communists 
that I know were harder workers politically than the Democratic and 
Republican Parties or the Republicans or Democrats whom I know. 
I think that is too bad, but I am afraid it is true. 

Mr. Clardy. You think we ought to take the brakes off and work 
at it a little harder? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes; I should say so. 

Mr. DoTLE. I should say a good deal harder, Colleague. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes ; I agree with you. 

Now one further question and then I am done. 

Would you not say that the turning of the spotlight on the squirm- 
ing creatures you have seen on the stand here has done a pretty good 
job of educating the public to what communism really means and 
what ends it desires? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes ; I would agree with that. I think that there are 
probably people who have stood on the fifth amendment due to a 
misplaced sense of loyalty. Maybe people that did get out— I don't 
know all of these people that I have mentioned — some of them might 
be out of the party. I don't know. I think that there may be some 
reluctance due to a misplaced sense of loyalty. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you any criticism to make of the committee or 

its methods? 

Mr. Hauser. Well, I think that this committee has made some 
mistakes in the past, but I think that I have been well treated by this 
committee. I know I have no feeling of animosity, certainly. 

Mr. Clardy. As I understand from what you have said, once you 
have made your confession, the horrible things which you had antici- 
pated from society have not fallen upon you ? 

Mr. Hauser. This is very, very important. I think if I can add 
anything at all, and I don't want to make a speech or anything, but 
if I can add anything at all, it would be to say to the ex-Commu- 
nists, to the persons who have made a decision against them as I did 
and who have lived in pretty terrorizing fear for 8 years, especially 
people with families such as I who want to — who have a desire and 
go tell some legal body, "Yes, I was," but you fear to do this for the 
economic welfare of your children. At least, this was my experience. 

As I say, when it finally happened and up to now, at least, the fear 
that I felt for 8 years was groundless. 

Mr. Clardy. You have found forgiveness in the Christian people 
of this Nation, haven't you ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes, I think so, very definitely. 

Mr. Clardy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I think, Mr. Chairman, I first wish to remark that while 
I do not know the name of the employers of this gentleman, we should 
compliment them on the way they have so far acted in this matter. I 
wish to compliment his employers, whoever they are. 



638 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

I wish to say preliminarily to a question or two that I wrote down 
here what you said as to the reasons you joined the Communist Party 
and that they were very American and unsubversive. We seldom 
hear that word used, "unsubversive." You mean not subversive, do 
you? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. "When I joined the party in 1943." Now, I wish to 
say that I think I thoroughly understand your motive in joining the 
Communist Party in 1943. The reason I tliink I understand your 
motive was that you were interested in supporting the war effort. 
You believed in true liberalism. You believed in the liberal legisla- 
tion within the framework of the Constitution, according to your own 
language a minute ago. You believed in fair employment and you 
were against discrimination, and in my book all of those are worthy 
objectives, sir, and they still are. And I hope you will continue to 
vigorously support those objectives. 

Now, I can understand, therefore, why when you had an awakening 
and the motives of the Communist Party switched to supporting the 
Soviet line as contradistinguished from the American line, 1 can under- 
stand why you promptly got out, and I wish more people would do 
that, when they had their awakening, that they would get out and 
stay out and then do something to inform the American people of the 
Communist conspiracy that exists. 

I can also understand another reason why you have been fearful for 
these 8 years. You are a married man with children. That is quite 
a human thing to do, and to feel, and I can understand that and I 
sympathize with you and I sympathize with other American people 
who are similarly situated. But I wish to urge other American 
people who are now patriotic to also not be fearful but to come clean 
and support their Nation. 

There is one question I wish to ask : What was the average age of 
the people in the cell that you refer to? Were they young people, 
middle aged, or what ? 

Mr. Hauser. I believe that the majority were young people. 
' Mr. Doyle. How young ? 

Mr. Hauser. Oh, I would say in their 20's and 30's — along ii) there. 
There were older people than that in the group but not very many. 
Mostly it was young people. And mostly, I believe, they were people 
of sincere belief, as I was. 

If I could, I would like to urge specifically those people that got out 
when I did, that were mentioned here earlier, who I know are living in 
fear of economic recriminations, to come and do the same thing I have 
done, and I think they will get out very clean and without sanctions. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. No other questions. 

Mr. Scherer. I have no questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Frazier? 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. I believe that during the course of your testimony you 
named, as one of the members of your group, Abe Burrows. 

Mr. Hauser. Yes, sir. 
* Mr. Jackson. And that you held, if my recollection is correct, at 
least one meeting at his home. 

Mr. Hauser. That is correct. 

Mr. Jackson. What was his occupation at that time? 



COMJMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 639 

Mr. Hauser. He was a radio writer. 

Mr. Jackson. Where was lie working ? 

Mr. Hauser. He was writing for a network show, but I believe he 
was writing as a free-lance writer and not employed by a network. 
Probably by an agent, but I don't know what agency it was. 

Mr. Jackson. Were these meetings of your group closed meetings 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. And only members of the party would be present at 
those meetings? 

Mr. Hauser. So far as I know, yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Was that generally understood by those who were in 
attendance at the meetings ? 

Mr. Hauser. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. That it was a closed meeting of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Hauser. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. Is it conceivable that anyone could have been in a 
meeting of that kind or could have held a meeting at his home without 
Icnowing that it was a meeting of the Communist Party branch? 

Mr. Hauser. No; it was not. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Counsel, I believe that Mr. Burrows appeared 
before the committee? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Jackson. In Washington ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Was there a denial or an affirmation as to his alleged 
connection with the Communist Party? Just exactly what was the 
situation with respect to Mr. Burrows ? I realize you don't have the 
testimony here, but what is your recollection ? 

Mr. Tavenner. According to the best of my recollection, Mr. Bur- 
rows stated that he did not recall having paid dues to Mr. Vinson, as 
Mr. Vinson claimed in his testimony. 

Mr. Vinson was the treasurer of the radio group which you had 
spoken of. 

Mr. Hauser. I believe that was after I got out of it, Mr. Tavenner. 
1 don't recall Vinson having been the treasurer. We didn't have any 
permanent treasurer. 

Mr. Tavennp:r. But Mr. Burrows admitted membership in a group, 
and according to my recollection stated that no doubt they were justi- 
fied in concluding he was a member of the Communist Party group, 
but his statement was, I thought, a little, according to my best recol- 
lection at this moment, was a little uncertain as to whether or not he 
admitted Communist Party membership. That is about the best I 
can answer your question. 

Mr. Jackson. Tluit is sufficient. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. Was any question asked Mr. Burrows as to whether 
or not Communist meetings had ever been held in his home or can 
you recall that? 

Mr. Tavenner. I would not like to attempt to answer that. 

Mr. Clardy. You are not standing on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. No. 

31747— 53— pt. 3 3 



640 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Jacksox. Were any promises made to yon by investigators or 
counsel in return for your cooperation -with the committee? 

Mr. Hauser, No. 

Mr. Jackson. Were you promised any immunity or any special 
privilege as a result of your testimony before the committee? 

Mr. Hauser. No, I was not. 

Mr. Jacksox. There is one remark which I cannot let pass, and 
which I would like to have on the record. You said that this commit- 
tee had made mistakes in the past. Could you name any of them at 
this time? 

Mr. Hauser. I think the conduct of the hearings by some previous 
chairman were a little brutal. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you know of anyone who has been called before 
the committee without justification or without proper evidence to re- 
quire their presence? 

Mr. Hauser. No, I don't, but I think from a public relations point 
of view, and that is the reason why I answered the question in that way, 
as to how it would help in the fight against communism, and I must 
say that I think the present chairman is doing an admirable job, but 
I think in the past sometimes the conduct of the hearings has not con- 
tributed to the fight against communism. 

Mr. Jackson. Perhaps public relationswise. 

Mr. Hauser. That is what I had in mind. 

Mr. Jackson. It might have had its shortcomings, but I am still 
waiting for a witness to say who has been called before the committee 
without proper justification. 

Mr. Hauser. I didn't insinuate that, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. I would like to join with my colleague, Mr. Clardy, 
in the expression that all of the American people, many hundreds 
who have written in during the course of these hearings, have evi- 
denced almost unanimously a desire to see the economic, social and 
political rehabilitation of those who have come forward to give testi- 
mony at these hearings. 

Mr. Doyle. I believe you have a matter before we recess. 

Mr. D0YI.E. Mr. Chairman, Mrs. Edith Macia, the former FBI agent 
who volunteered the fact that she was born in 1884. volunteered the 
fact that her Communist Party card name was Edda Nichol and 
that the number was 83346. She testified Saturday that she was a 
member of a Communist cell which met at the Woman's Club in Los 
Angeles for a time. 

In view of her testimony, that the Communist Party cell was appar- 
ently a tenant under the West Adams Women's Club tenancy, I urge 
it be made clear whether or not the West Adams Women's Club was 
in fact landlord or had been imposed upon, or what. 

I wish to say that I received this telegram from the executive board 
of the West Adams Women's Club, signed by Mrs. Charles B. Blakes- 
lee, president. It is dated today, and I think, in justice to the situa- 
tion, that the telegram should be immediately read. 

Con::rrpssman Doyi.f., 

Statler Hotel, Los Angeles, Calif.: 

The West Adams Women's Club is a patriotio and civic group of women. Our 
auditorium is rented to various pi-oiips. We employ a custodian to care for the 
club and supervise the rentals for us. It is the policy of the club to cancel all 
rentals not meeting club rules. It is impossible, how^ever, to know upon appliea- 



COM]VrUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES AREA 641 

tion of the renters the true nature of their meetings. In this respect we offer 
our sincere regrets in being placed in this innocent embarrassment. Our books 
are open for inspection and we welcome your investigation at any time and 
offer our cooperation. We compliment you on the fine work of your committee. 
It is certainly a tribute to the women of America who appreciate your determi- 
nation to expose those who would deprive us of our American heritage. Please 
read this message over television in your next session. 

The Executive Board of the West 
Adams Women's Club, 

Mrs. Charles B. Blakeslee, President. 

I am very glad to have done so, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. The committee is very happy to have the telegram 
from the West Adams Women's Club. 

Mr. Comisel, do you have anything further at this time ? 

Mr. Tavenner. There has been handed me by counsel, Mr. John P. 
Tobin, a motion with regard to the appearance of his client, Halldora 
Kirstin — H-a-1-l-d-o-r-a K-i-r-s-t-i-n — Sigurdson — S-i-g-u-r-d-s-o-n — 
who has been subpenaed as a witness to appear here. 

The statement is made in the motion that Miss Sigurdson is desirous 
of cooperating with the committee, but that there has recently been a 
decision of the Immigration Appeals Board affecting her, and that a 
motion for reconsideration of that decision will be filed next week. 
And in view of that pending matter, she is asking, through counsel, 
that her appearance here be postponed. 

Mr, Jackson. Wliat is your recommendation ? 

Mr. Ta\^enner. I think under the circumstances it should be post- 
poned. 

Mr. DoTLE. I think it will be a splendid thing to do, Mr. Chairman. 
We have the established policy, as you know, of never making any 
move in this committee that might directly or indirectly affect or em- 
barrass any person of proving their legal rights in any court or before 
any department. I think it will be very wise to put it over as per the 
request. 

Mr. Jackson. Without objection on the part of the committee, it 
will be so laid over. 

Mr. Ta\t2nner. I have a number of other communications. 

This is a letter from Mr. John Edwin Fisher, 6566 West 84th Street, 
Los Angfeles : 



^to"- 



During Saturday's hearing a witness, Mrs. Macia, listed the names of Mr. and 
Mrs. Ed Fisher, who moved to Los Angeles from San Francisco. Inasmuch as 
I am known both socially and in business as Ed Fisher and also because my wife 
Rose Irene is from San Francisco, would you have Chairman Velde state in the 
records that my wife and I are not the Fishers mentioned and are in no way 
connected with the Communist Party? 

I have a telegram from Joe McCloskey, M-c-C-1-o-s-k-e-y : 

My name is Joe McCloskey. I am a jewelry salesman residing at 8257 West 
Norton Avenue, Los Angeles 46. * * * I would like to have the following written 
into the record: I am not the Joe McCloskey named by Mrs. Edith Macia as 
having attended Communist meetings. I am not now nor have I ever been a 
member of any communistic group. I am a Roman Catholic and this has caused 
me great embarrassment. I will gladly cooperate in any manner you may advise 
that my name may be entirely cleared. Congratulations on your splendid work. 

A telegram from Mrs. Wilma Schorr, 1783 South Cherbourne Drive : 

Mr. Tavenner, will you kindly clarify the fact that the Wilma Shore mentioned 
in David Lang's testimony is not the person residing at 1783 South Cherbourne 
Drive, Los Angeles, as I am being deluged with calls regarding this situation? 



642 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

A telenrram from Michael Frank, 4130 Van Buren Place, Culvp>r 
City, Calif. : 

I am not the Michael Frank Mrs. Macia produced in her list. 
Sam Horn, a telegram : 

The name of Sam Horn was mentioned in Saturday morning's March 2S hear- 
ing by the Un-American Activities Committee. I am in business and my resi- 
dence is 839 Rimpau Boulevard. 

I am certain I have read a similar telegram from that person, or I 
believe a telephone message. At any rate, the person states that he is 
not the same person who was named by Mrs. Macia. 

Another telegram from Glen Dawson and Miiir, M-u-i-r, Dawson: 

We wish to correct an error in testimony given you Saturday. Dawson's Book 
Shop has never engaged in the distribution of Comumnist literature. Neither 
one of us are members of the Communist Party nor do we have any sympathy 
With the Commimist Party or its aims. ^Ve both served in the United States 
Army in World War II, and if called upon again, would serve against any enemy 
of the United States. 

My recollection is that a person by the name of Dawson mentioned 
in that testimony Avas said to have been deceased. 

Mr. Doyle. I'hat's right ; I so stated, and tlie witness so stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Here is a telegram addressed to me from a witness, 
Norman Byrne : 

I understand by my lawyer, Robert Kenny, you wish all witnesses who object 
to television to appear executive session April 6. I do ol^ject to appear before TV 
I will therefore appear April 6. Unable to contact Wheeler. Hence this wire. 
To verify call Kenny, Madison 9-1137. 

Mr. Clardy. When is the telegram dated? 

Mr. TxVVENNER. March 29. 

Mr. Clardy. Los Angeles? 

Mr. Tavenner. 1953. Lancaster, Calif. 

Mr. Clardy. Any time on it ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am nnable to decipher it. 

]\Ir. Clardy, That witness, as I recall it, through Mr. Kenny, was 
ordered to report here this morning. Am I not correct? 

Mr. Jackson. Let's correct that. I think INIr. Kenny stated that he 
appeared to be acting as an agent, but did not know if he was repre- 
senting the man or not. 

Mr. Tavenner. He stated he represented him only for the purpose 
of relaying the message as to a broken spring in a car, 

Mr. Jackson. I believe the committee should take this under advise- 
ment and consider it during the noon recess. Without objection, we 
will take that action. In connection with the various disclaimers that 
are being telephoned in and sent in by telegram, while the committee 
is very anxious to see that no injustice is worked upon any entirely 
innocent person, the committee cannot undertake, of course, to vouch 
for the facts of the case. The communications are read, and beyond 
that there is nothing further that the committee can do in the matter. 
That should be made clear, I believe, Mr. Coimsel. 

There is one other thing. There have been a number of communica- 
tions since the Guide to Subversive Organizations and Publications 
was mentioned in the committee hearings. Tliis publication, pre- 
pared and released by the House Committee on Un-American Activi- 
ties, House of Representatives, can be obtained, at least as long 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 643 

as the present supply lasts, by addressing a communication to the 
House Committee on Un-American Activities, House Office Build- 
ing, Washington, D. C. 

Do you have anything further, Mr. Counsel, at this time? 

Mr. Tavennek. No, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. The committee will stand in recess until 2 p. m. 

Let the record show the witness Hauser was dismissed. 

(Thereupon, at 11 : 57 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 2 p. m., same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(At the hour of 2 : 10 p. m., of the same day, tl\e proceedings were 
resumed, the same parties being present.) 

Mr. Jackson. The committee will be in order. 

Who is your first witness, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. David Robison. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Robison. Is Mr. Robison in the hearing room 
or in the hallway ? 

Are you Mr. Robison ? 

Mr. RomsoN, Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you solemnly swear that in the testimony you are 
about to give, to tell the trutli, the whole truth, and 'nothing but the 
truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Robison. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF DAVID ROBISON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUN- 
SEL, WILLIAM B. ESTERMAN AND DANIEL G. MARSHALL 

Mr. Tavenner. T\Tiat is your name, please, sir? 

Mr. Robison. David Robison. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your name, please ? 

Mr. Robison. R-o-b-i-s-o-n. 

Before I proceed, Mr. Counsel, might I request I be given to the 
photographers and there be no more pictures taken during the pro- 
ceeding. Not on the television. I mean simply by the press. 

Mr. Jackson. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Robison. May I ask whether I will have the right to cross- 
examine any witnesses who may or may not have appeared and given 
this committee any testimony concerning me ? 

Mr. Jackson. The rules of the committee do not permit cross- 
examination of the witnesses. 

Mr. Robison. I see. May I make a statement on my own behalf at 
this point? 

Mr. Jackson. Any statement you wish to submit to the committee, 
will be received. 

Mr. Robison. I see. So far as any statement by my counsel is con- 
cerned, could my counsel make a statement at this time? 

Mr. Jackson. The rules of the committee do not permit oral state- 
ments by counsel. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Are you accompanied by counsel? 

Mr. KoBisoN. Yes; I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify themselves for the 
record ? 

Mr. EsTERMAN. W^illiam B, Esterman. 



644 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Marshall. Daniel G. Marshall. 

Mr. Tavexner. When and wliere were you born, Mr. Robison? 

Mr. RoBisoN. I was born in Crestwood, "Westchester County, the 
State of New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you reside now ? 

Mr. RoBisoN. Los Ang;eles. 

Mr. Ta-stsnner. When were you born? 

Mr. RoBisox. January 29, 1911. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation? 

Mr. RoBisox. I was trained as a music historian. I have been a 
teacher, and I am now a writer. 

Mr. TA^^ENiSrER. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
formal educational training has been? 

(At this point ]\Ir. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Robison. I graduated from Townsend Harris Hall High School 
in New York with honors. I attended Columbia University. I re- 
ceived my A. B. and M. A. degrees. 

I received the Clarence Barker Fellowship and William Mason 
Fellowship. 

And I continued my studies for 2 years at the University of Vienna. 

Mr. Taa^nner. When did you receive your M. A. degree at Co- 
lumbia University ? 

Mr. Robison. It was, I believe, in the year — the formal reception 
of the degree was in the year 1936. 

Mr. Ta\t=:nner. And when did you complete your formal educa- 
tion at the University of Vienna, in wdiat year ? 

Mr. Robison. In — let me change that. I received the M. A. from 
Columbia in 1937, and I completed my studies in the University of 
Vienna in 1936. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. What was your employment since 1937, and where? 

Mr. Robison. Well, Mr. Tavenner, as I explained, I have l)een occu- 
pied in several professions. Now, this would seem to be a very general 
question. I wonder if you could be more specific. 

Mr. Ta\t5nner. A general answer would be satisfactory. 

Mr. Robison. I was professionally engaged as a teacher, and excuse 
me one moment 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Robison. Mr. Tavenner, as a writer and as a teacher, I have been 
employed in a great many places, and if you would ask me a direct 
question it would simplify it for me to answer. My employment 
record has been quite varied and quite extensive. If you could be 
more specific. 

Mr. Ta\t5nner. When did you come to Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Robison. In 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time had you been engaged in the 
profession of teaching? 

Mr. Robison. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where? 

Mr. Robison. It is a shocking thing, Mr. Tavenner, that I hesitate 
before I answer this question, but because of what is to me the unex- 
cusable and destructive invasion by this committee of the educational 
field, I have to give some more consideration to the answer. I will 
have to consult counsel for one moment, please. 



COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 645 

(At this point Mr. Eobison conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. lioBisoN. Before I answer, ]\Ir. Chairman, may I repeat the 
request that pictures not be taken — is that possible — during the pro- 
ceedings? It is a little bit disconcerting. Is that possible? 

Mr. Jackson. I am sorry. I didn't hear the request. 

Mr. RoBisoN. May I repeat the request that pictures not be taken 
during the testimony, because it is somewhat disconcerting to have the 
flash bulbs going off. I will be very happy to give the press any 
pictures they want afterward or before. 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. I would request the photographers to take a 
minimum of pictures during the course of the testimony, unless 
something unforeseen or untoward requires a picture. In that case 
I would not feel that I should limit activities. 

(At this point Mr. liobison conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. RoBisoN. May I request for my own clarification that I be told 
what legislative purpose a question concerning my teaching record 
has at this moment? 

Mr. Jackson. The committee will have to be the judge of whether 
or not the inquiry is material and pertinent, and I assure you that all 
of the questions that will be asked of you will have a very definite 
purpose. 

Mr. RoBisoN. I am asking specifically about this question, about 
my question relating to my teaching record. Has this a legislative 
purpose ? 

Mr. Jackson. The committee has embarked upon an investigation 
designed to disclose the nature and extent of Communist propaganda 
activities in a number of fields. Included among the committee's 
objectives is the extent and nature of Communist infiltration into 
education. 

Therefore, to the extent the question bears upon your experience in 
education the Chair feels that it is a pertinent question and relates to 
the subject of the investigation. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I ask this : The last clause of Public 
Law 601, as counsel knows, directs us to study these matters with 
reference to suggesting remedial legislation to the United States Con- 
gress, so every question and answer bears on the last section of the law 
under which we function. Every investigation we make is for the 
purpose of considering what legislation should be recommended to and 
considered by the United States Congress. 

Mr. RoBisoN. I see. 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman and 
Mr. Marshall.) 

Mr. RoBisoN. I am trying to frame my answers, but of necessity, 
in order to frame my answers, I have to understand as well as I can 
the framework of the question. Now, I would assume from your 
remark, Congressman Doyle, that there is almost no area of life in 
tliis country which is not there for subject to investigation by this 
committee. 

Mr. Jackson. Is there any phase of life in this country which is not 
subject to the propaganda activities of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Robison. That isn't what I said. 



646 COIVBIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Jacksox. Well, that is, I think the essence and gist of what I 
said to you, and I feel that the question that has been asked is relevant, 
and I hope that you will see fit to answer it. 

Mr. KoBisoN. What is the pending question, a question concerning 
my teaching record ? Is that the pending question '( 

Mr. Tavicnner. Will you read the question to the witness, please? 

(The question was read.) 

Mr. RoBisox. I was engaged in teaching in the city of New York 
and Nashville, Tenn. 

Mr. Tavenner. And what educational institution did you engage 
in the teaching profession while in New York City? 

(At this point Mr. Eobison conferred with Mr. Esterman and ]\Ir. 
Marshall. ) 

Mr. RoBisoN. After due consideration, Mr. Tavenner, and de- 
spite my deep personal resentment at this question as a teacher as well 
as a citizen, since I believe this constitutes an invasion of the field of 
teaching, I am very proud of the associations I have had in an institu- 
tion of higher learning in New York City, where I taught at Columbia 
University. 

Mr. Tavexner. AVhen did you teach at Columbia University ? 

Mr. RoBisoN. I taught at Columbia during the academic year 
1936-37, and prior to that I had been a teaching assistant in 1934. 

Mr. Tavenner. And did you teach in any other schools in New 
York City besides Columbia University? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. RoBisoN. Mr. Tavenner, in response to your question, the only 
place where I was employed as a teacher, to the best of my recollection, 
was at Columbia University. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you teach in New York City besides 
Columbia University, regardless of whether you were employed to 
teach or not employed? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman and 
Mr. Marshall.) 

Mr. RoBisoN, Mr. Tavenner, I am sorry. I have very great difficulty 
in trying to find an answer to that question, because the concept of 
teaching is so broad that I don't know where to begin, where to apply 
it and leave off. I teach my children and neighbors 

Mr. Tavenner. Certainly, certainly, certainly. You understand I 
am not asking about the giving of private instructions to children in 
your family. 

Mr. Robison. Well, I didn't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. You didn't know? 

Mr. RoBisoN. No. What specifically do you mean ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked you where you taught, in what institutions 
you tauglit or schools in which you taught, whether for money or 
other compensation or not. and by "institutions" I am not speaking of 
the institution of the family, but I mean a school, an organized school. 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. RoBTSON. I think you would make it a great deal easier to reply, 
Mr. Tavenner, if you would ask me a direct question and name specifi- 
cally any area that you would like information about, because I find 
this question, as it is phrased now, impossible to answer. I don't know 
where to begin to examine it. 



COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THf: LOS ANGELES AREA 647 

Mr. ScHERER. And how many degrees did you say that you received 
from universities, and still you can't understand that question? 

Mr. RoBisoN. That isn't even worthy of an answer. 

Mr. Jackson, Order in the hearing room. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is a very simple question. In what schools did 
jou teach in New York City ? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. RoBisoN. Is Mr. Scherer's question pending or is it withdrawn? 

Mr. Scherer. Go ahead and answer it. 

Mr. Robison. May I have the question again, please ? 

Mr. Scherer. I asked how many degrees you had and still are not 
able to answer that simple question. 

Mr. Robinson. That question, sir, is no more simple than the ques- 
tion that was simple-minded in the asking of it. 

Mr. Scherer. Thank you. 

Mr. Walter. Maybe I could help you out. Where did you teach 
communism in New York ? 

Mr. Jackson, Order in the hearing room. 

Mr. Walter. That is a very simple question. 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr, Esterman.) 

Mr. Robison. Is that the question, Mr. Chairman, the question of 
•Congressman Walter ? 

Mr. Walter. Yes ; that is the question. 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Robison. Just for clarification, Mr. Chairman, is the previous 
question by Mr. Tavenner withdrawn in light of Congressman Wal- 
ter's question ? 

Mr. Walter. I will withdraw my question so that Mr. Tavenner can 
ask it after he builds up to it. 

Mr. RoBisoN. I see. 

Mr. Walter. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer my question, please? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Robison. I asked before, Mr. Tavenner, for a clarification of the 
question, for specific questions as to what you would like to address 
yourself to. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will repeat it again. It is a very simple question. 
In what schools have you taught in New York City other than Colum- 
bia University, regardless of whether you received compensation for 
your services or not ? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Robison. Mr. Tavenner, in view of the question by Congress- 
man Walter, w^hich he withdrew, would you state specifically or 
give me a specific area which I think will facilitate the answer? 

Mr. Tai'enner. I asked a very definite and specific question. I 
cannot make it any more direct than that. 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Robison. Name what schools, sir, as a matter of fact, and I 
am speaking, sir, with the authority of years of teaching and two 
degrees, that what constitutes a school is a question which is open to 
a great deal of discussion, so that the question is not a specific one, 
and I am sure that any educator would find it is not a specific one. It: 
is a general question. 



648 COMJSIUNIST ACTIVITl|S EST THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state what schools, according to your in- 
terpretation, you have taught in in the city of New York ? 

(At this point Mr. Kobison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. RoBisoN. In my interpretation, sir, I have answered that ques- 
tion in response to a previous question. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean you have taught in no schools other than 
Columbia University in New York City? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Robison. Mr. Tavenner, if there is an area in which you are 
investigating, I wish you would name it specifically. If you have 
something in mind, what specific schools are they ? I have responded 
to your question, sir, and I feel that in order to pursue this, if you 
will specifically state what schools you have in mind. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I ask the witness be directed to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Jackson. The witness is directed to answer. 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Robison. Mr. Chairman, in the light of Congressman Walter's 
question, I would like to inquire, Is counsel trying to entrap me into 
an area about which he will not disclose to me ? I think I am entitled 
to know the direction of the questioning and specifically what areas 
he is interested in. 

Mr. Jackson. I am not personally aware of what groundwork 
counsel is laying or what the future questions will be. Obviously, 
he has his reasons for asking the questions or else they would not be 
asked. 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Robison. Well, I think as a witness I am entitled to know the 
reasons for a line of questioning. I am not attempting to tell Mr. 
Tavenner what questions to ask me, but certainly the line of reasoning 
and particularly in view of Congressman Walter's question before, I 
think that clarity could be given to the questions. 

Mr. Walter. Maybe I could clarify it by telling you that I didn't 
have the faintest idea of the questions Mr. Tavenner was going to 
ask you. I knew nothing about your appearance here this afternoon. 
I have heard nothing about you. But it was so apparent to me from 
the evasive way in which you are answering the questions, that you 
had somethingto conceal that I asked that question. It was only your 
own demeanor that caused me to ask that question. 

Mr. Jackson. In the meanwhile, that question has been withdrawn. 
There is a question pending by counsel and direction has been given 
to the witness to answer it. 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Robison. Mr. Chairman, in view of the refusal of counsel for 
the committee to reveal the nature of the question and in view also 
of the insulting remarks of Congressman Walter, I cannot even 
answer here. I decline to answer this question and I shall do so for 
the following grounds. I have five in all and I should like to be able 
to present them as briefly as I can. 

Mr. Jackson. First of all, you decline to answer the question. Let 
us get this straight before we begin today on any 5 or 6 points. 
What we want to know is whether or not you decline to answer the 
question. 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 649 

Mr. RoBisoN. Mr. Chairman, in answer to your question as an 
American, I must, I do and I am compelled to decline to answer this 
question or to assist this committee in this invasion of the educational 
field and to destroy aspects of the cultural heritage of this country, 
which I believe this question and other questions which came before 
are designed to effect. 

I do decline to answer that question for five reasons, which I will 
now give you. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. 

Mr. RoBisoN. In the first place, I feel that the question is an invasion 
of my entire professional existence as a writer. 

It is an invasion of the realm of ideas. 

The existence, the meaning and the identity of a writer depends upon 
the communication of ideas, and to invade that area is to invade not 
only the rights of communication, the rights of assembly and the rights 
of teaching, but the very existence, my very existence as a writer. 

I decline to answer on that ground 'in the first instance, and in the 
second instance, as an extension of this, the ideas of a writer and also 
of a teacher by the property of that teacher or writer. 

This is acknowledged in a phrase commonly used in the entertain- 
ment industry concerning writing as ]3roperty. My ideas, which are 
the substance of my existence as a writer, are mine and neither this 
committee nor any committee has a right to attempt to search or seize 
those ideas. 

Mr. ScHERER. I know we wouldn't want them. I will tell you that. 

Mr. RoBisoN. May I be allowed to continue without interruption. 
Mr. Chairman ? 

Mr. Jackson. Continue. 

Mr. Clardy. Try to get down to stating your constitutional reasons. 

Mr. RoBisoN. I am, sir ; I am. 

Mr. Clardy. Not yet. 

Mr. RoBisoN. I am. 

Mr. Jackson. You haven't gotten to a constitutional ground yet. 
These are all personal ideas as to what constitutes freedom of speech 
and thought, and while we are content to listen to the witness go on 
within reason, it is to be hoped he will get to the constitutional reasons 
for declining to answer, as quickly as possible. 

Mr. Clardy. And, remember, we are only interested in discovering 
where you have taught, and not your ideas or any property you may 
own. 

Mr. Jackson. The witness will proceed. 

Mr. RoBisoN. My third reason is that an atmosphere of a trial has 
been created here, and ex parte proceeding, which I might add was 
emphasized by a reference to the chairman as "Your Honor," which 
I find to be no accident. And I believe that the atmosphere here, as 
I said, is one of trial and I am being tried and I don't believe this com- 
mittee has a right to do any such thing. 

My fourth ground is based on a concept, a legal concept and is a 
legal reason which is older than this committee, older than the Bill of 
Rights, sir, older than the Constitution, and was one of the basic 
legal concepts upon which this country was founded. In the year 
1670, William Penn, one of the forefathers of this country was placed 
in trial in Old Bailey in England. His codefendant was William 
Meade. 



650 comjviunist activities m the los angeles area 

Wlien asked the question, he responded with regard to a question re- 
ferring to himself, ''Nemo tenetur accusave seipsum,'' that no one can 
be made to testify against himself. 

This basic concept, which is as old as the Magna Carta and the 
foundation of law in this country, I proudly cite, not only as a 
privilege for myself, but as a duty as a citizen, and I would add as a 
grandson of a Congressional Medal of Honor holder who <^ot that 
medal for defending that Constitution, that Bill of Rights, which that 
amendment is a part of. 

In the last instance I will give very briefly, and that is that I don't 
believe, according to the Constitution, sir, that this committee has the 
right to invade those rights which belong to the people and the right 
of teaching, a communication of ideas is not only prescribed by the 
Bill of Rights but remains with the people of this country, sir. 

Those are my reasons for declining to answer the question. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. Continue, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that you also taught at Nashville, Tenn. 
Mr. Robison, over what period of time did you teach at Nashville, 
Tenn. ? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Robison. Was the question over what period? Might I ask 
specifically the last question 

Mr. Tavenner. The question was, how long did you teach at Nash- 
ville, Tenn.? 

Mr. Robison. I see. 

Mr. Tavenner. And during what year or years ? 

Mr. Robison. From 19 — let me see, now — from the academic year 
beginning September 1937 through June of 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. At what school or schools did you teach while in 
Nashville, Tenn. ? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Robison. You said school or schools. Is that what you mean? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Robison. Which part of that do you mean? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. What is that ? 

Mr. Robison. Do you mean one part or the other? 

Mr. Tavenner. I mean at what school or schools; if more than one, 
state what they were. 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with INIr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Robison. During that entire period, Mr. Tavenner, I was em- 
ployed at Fisk University. 

Mr. Tavenner. Fisk University. Did you teach at anj'' other schools 
or lecture at any other schools besides Fisk, during the period of time 
that you were employed by Fisk University ? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Robison. This is the same kind of a question, Mr, Tavenner, 
you asked before, and to which I have the same question in my own 
mind as to the proper way to answer this. Specifically what 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me break that question into two parts. 

Mr. ScHERER. Make it real simple. 

Mr. Robison. Mr. Chairman, may I ask that the Congressman re- 
frain from personal offensive remarks, which are thoroughly un- 



COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 651 

called for in what I believe is a legislative hearing? I am trying 
to frame my answers as best I can. 

Mr. Jackson. Let me say to the witness: After having sat here 
over the period of an entire week listening to remarks much more 
offensive, it is not any great wonder the patience of the committee 
members is sorely tried at times. I am sure we are all making an effort 
to be fair and concise. 

Mr. RoBisoN. I am glad you agree, sir, that the remark of the Con- 
gressman was offensive. 

Mr. Clardy. He did not. 

Mr. Jackson. I made no such statement. 

Mr. Clardt. But I find yours extremely offensive. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee where you taught 
besides Fisk University ? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). During the time you were employed 
by Fisk University, in any place. 

Mr. Robison. Again, Mr. Tavenner, this is the same question you 
asked before, and it brings up the whole concept of teaching. I don't 
want to be repetitious. I am trying not to be. If you will be specific, 
if there is a secret or something you wish to present, I wish you would 
ask me a specific question and I will try my best to answer it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have asked you a very specific question. Did 
you teach any place besides Fisk University when you were at Nash- 
ville, Tenn.? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman and 
Mr. Marshall.) 

Mr. Robison. Would you please, sir — evidently, I am sure you do 
have something in mind, because I am sure the question is not friv- 
olous on the part of counsel. Excuse me one moment. 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr- 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Walter. Now, Mr. Chairman 

Mr. R 1BIS0N. I wonder if you 

Mr. Walter. Just a minute. Mr. Chairman, it is perfectly ap- 
parent to me we are not going to be assisted by this witness. Why 
should we waste any more time with this sort of an action? 

]\Ir. Counsel, is there anything that you 

Mr. Robison. Do I take it, sir, that the question is withdrawn? 

Mr. Walter. I would like to ask one question 

Mr. Robison. Do I understand that the question is withdrawn? 

Mr. Jackson. There is a question pending. It has not been with- 
drawn. 

Mr. Walter. Will you withdraw that question, Mr. Counsel, and 
let me wind this up ? 

Mr. Ta\t3nner. Yes, I will withdraw the question. 

Mr. Walter. Have you withdrawn the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Walit:r. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Robison. Mr. Tavenner, for the — with the same preface which I 
gave before concerning my personal attitudes toward a question of 



652 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

this kind and the same background of compulsion as an American, 
to declining to answer this question, I do so decline for the follow- 
ing reasons, which I would like to give to this committee 

Mr. Doyle. Are those the same 5 reasons ? 

Mr. RoBisoN. They are my reasons, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask, are they the same five reasons you have just 
repeated? If they were, couldn't we stipulate that the same five 
reasons 

Mr. RoBisoN. I will not so stipulate, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, you want to take your own time and the 
time of the committee 

Mr. RoBisoN. May I say something here about the question of time? 
I really feel this is out of place. I am here in the witness chair and 
I feel a matter of time and oppressing me is entirely out of place. I 
have sat here since Monday, since a week ago today, and I have heard 
witnesses on this chair consume an entire day. I have no desire to be 
any longer than necessary. 

Mr. Doyle. We wouldn't think of hurrying you along for the world. 
Take your time and everyone else's time. We wouldn't think of hav- 
ing you hurry, sir. 

Mr. RoBisoN. Thank you very much. Congressman. 

Mr, Jackson. I would like to say the witnesses wlio have consumed 
time before the committee have been witnesses who have been pre- 
pared to come before the committee and assist it. 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman and 
Mr. Marshall.) 

Mr. Jackson. I would like to say before you begin, sir, it had been 
hoped that the committee would be able to conclude its witnesses before 
4 o'clock this afternoon. However, there are several witnesses to be 
heard, and if too much time is consumed it will doubtless be necessary 
for us to run over the prescribed time, Mr. Counsel, so you can plan 
your work accordingly. 

Mr. RoBisoN. If counsel will withdraw the question, or the Con- 
gressman will withdraw the question, it will facilitate matters a gi'eat 
deal. 

Mr. Walter. Yes, it would, and save you a lot of embarrassment. 

Mr. RoBisoN, I am not the least embarrassed. 

Mr. Walter. I will not withdraw the question. 

Mr. Jackson. The question will stand. The question has not been 
withdrawn. The witness has declined to answer? 

Mr. RoBisoN. I decline and I would like to give my legal rights. 

Mr. Jackson. Set forth your reasons. 

Mr. RoBisoN. Again, as a writer, this is a question of association; 
this is a question involving an enormous area of thought, and which 
is an impairment of the free invasion and free learning in every area 
which is a basic part of a writer and a teacher's equipment. 

In the second place, this is again a very important realm of ideas. 

Mr. Jackson. Go ahead. 

Mr. RoBisoN. Since the Congressman came 3,000 miles here, I, 
assumed they would be interested in hearing, the answers of witnesses 
before this committee. 

Mr, Jackson. The committee has heard your answers and heard 
answ^ers of hundreds of other witnesses that have been the same as 
yours. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 653 

Mr. Doyle. We have hearcl- 



Mr. EoBisoN. I find it extremely rude of a Congressman, but I 
will continue and you may conduct yourselves according to the man- 
ner in which you are accustomed. 

Mr. Jackson. We have some important business to transact, busi- 
ness which is far more important than to listen to what you have al- 
ready said. 

Mr. RoBisoN. I have important business to transact, too. 

Mr. Jackson. Will you proceed ? 

Mr. KoBisoN. Although, if you will excuse me, if it takes me some 
time — it takes me some time to compose myself. 

Mr. Jackson. We will excuse you from the stand in 30 seconds. 

Mr. RoBisoN. I haven't finished my answer. 

Mr. Jackson. You have declined to answer. 

Mr. RoBisoN. Is the question withdrawn ? 

Mr. Jackson. You have declined to answer. 

Mr. RoBisoN. Is the question withdrawn ? 

Mr. Jackson. It has been asked and you have declined to answer. 

Mr. RoBisoN. The invasion of the question of ideas of association, 
which again is a basic part of my identity professionally as a human 
being, as an American, as a descendant of an American, is an invasion 
of the rights, of my rights as an American under the Constitution of 
this country, and I invoke that privilege. 

I further invoke the privilege, which is, as I said before, a duty, in 
the words, again, of the father of this country, of Tom Paine, that a 
privilege is not only a privilege, it is also a duty, and protecting a 
privilege is a duty to others who have the same privilege. 

It is with that sense that I invoke a hallowed, a sacred and a funda- 
mental concept of a democratic society, and that is that no witness can 
be compelled to testify against himself. 

And for your information, sir, since you wish to have numbers, and 
although this is the first time in history, I believe, an attempt has been 
made to make a dirty word out of a number, that is, the fifth amend- 
ment to the Constitution of the United States; I decline on those 
grounds. 

Mr. Walter. You mean to say that you are making a dirty word out 
of the fifth amendment? 

Mr. RoBisON. No, sir. I believe the attempt has been made here 

Mr. Walter. By a great many other people. 

Mr. RoBisoN. No, sir, but by this committee. It is violative of all 
of the restrictions that have been put upon Government and invades 
this great privilege of the American people, and not only the American 
people but one which is grounded in the traditions of this country. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. I have no questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Walter. 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle ? 

Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Frazier? 

Mr. Frazier. Wait a minute. I have a question, please. 

You taught for 3 years at Fisk University, is that right ? 



654 COJVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. RoBisoN. I believe it was more than that, Mr. Congressman. I 
think I said 5 years. 

Mr. Fhaziee. Five years. What did you teach there ? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Robison. Well, again, I am reluctant to answer, because I con- 
sider this invasion, but what I taught in the classroom, Mr, Frazier, 
I taught music history, the history of music, which is derived from 
and directly related to the entire development of society, sir, so that 
I have familiarity with a great many aspects of the development of 
some of these traditions, of how we came by them, how they came into 
being, and in fact I am very jealous of their meaning and of their 
significance. We didn't come by them easily, sir, and I hope that we 
won't lose them easily. 

Mr. Frazier. Did you teach at Vanderbilt University or Peabody 
College or any other of the colleges located there, except Fisk Univer- 
sity? 

Mr. Robison. I find these questions relating to my teaching experi- 
ence very difficult, sir, both on an ethical ground and also for the 
great respect and love that I have for the teaching profession as 
well as 

Mr. Frazier. Well, I simply asked you whether you taught at any 
other university located at Nashville. It is not a big place, and you 
would certainly know. 

Mr. Robison. It is a big place if you get lost in it, sir. "\Miat is the 
legislative purpose of this question ? I answered that I was employed 
at Fisk University. 

Mr. Frazier. I am asking if you taught at any other university 
at that time. 

Mr. Robison. Taught at or employed by ? 

Mr. Frazier. Taught. 

Mr. Robison. To my recollection, no, I did not. I don't know. 
I may have given lectures occasionally at Peabody and Vanderbilt 
University, which are the specific institutions that you asked about, 
sir. 

Mr. Frazier. Did you come direct from Nashville to Los Angeles 
when you came out here in 1942? 

Mr. Robison. I drove out in a 1941 Buick, which I still have. 

Mr. Frazier. Coming direct from Nashville to Los Angeles? 

Mr. Robison. I have forgotten. I may have gone via 

Mr. Frazier. I didn't mean to ask you where a'ou went by, but I 
mean you came from Nashville out here ? 

Mr. Robison. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Frazier. Now, as a matter of fact, as soon as it was learned of 
your communistic tendencies at Fisk l''^niversity. you were discharged 
by the president of that institution, weren't you ? 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Robison. Can you really represent that as a fact, sir? 

Mr. Frazier. That is my uiiderstanding of the fact to be that you 
were discharged by the president of that university. 

Mr. Robison. Have I ever 

Mr. Frazier. For communistic teachings. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 655 

(At this point Mr. Robison conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Robison. Mr. Congressman, I am returning to my previous 
question, or to the one preceding this question. In view ot ihe way 
that you have framed this question, I shall decline to answer that ques- 
tion for all of the previously stated grounds, and I will repeat them if 
you wish. I don't think you do at this point. 

Mr. Frazier. That is satisfactory. That is all. 

Mr. EoBisoN. It is understood that would include, of course, all of 
the constitutional privileges, including the first, fourth, and fifth 
amendments to the Constitution. 

Mr. Jackson. It is understood that all the constitutional provisions 
have been invoked. 

Any more questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Tavenner, who is your next witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Libby Burke. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you solemnly swear the testimony that you are 
about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Miss Burke. I do. 

Mr. Jackson. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

TESTIMONY OF LIBBY BURKE, ACCOMPANIED BY HEE COUNSEL, 
WILLIAM B. ESTERMAN AND DANIEL G. MARSHALL 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please? 

Miss Burke. My name is Libby Burke. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were you born. Miss Burke ? 

Miss Burke. Before I answer that question, may I ask that I be 
given the privilege of making a statement to the committee? 

Mr. Jackson. You may submit a written statement to the commit- 
tee, which will be considered by the whole committee. 

Miss Burke. May I ask the same privilege for my attorney ? 

Mr. Jackson. Your attorney under the rules of the committee, as 
he well knows, is not permitted to address an argument or statement 
to the committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you accompanied by counsel, Miss Burke ? 

Miss Burke. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify themselves for the 
record ? 

Mr. Esterman. William B. Esterman. 

Mr. Marshall. Daniel G. Marshall. 

Miss Burke. May I make one further inquiry? May my attorneys 
have the privilege of questioning and cross-examining any individual 
or individuals whom they say have given testimony before this com- 
mittee about me ? 

Mr. Jackson. No ; your counsel is not permitted under the rules of 
the committee to cross-examine them. You will have every oppor- 
3174.7—53 — pt. 3 4 



056 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

tunity to deny any evidence which may have been given against you. 

Miss Burke. My last question, may we have a copy of the rules, of 
the specific rules under which the committee functions ? 

Mr. Jackson. No ; you may not at this time. 

Miss Burke. Are they written or are they arrived at 

Mr. Jackson. They are the rules of the House of Representatives 
and the rules of standing committees of the House. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now will you please state the place of your birth? 

Mr. Jackson. May I interrupt, please? A copy of the rules of the 
House and the rules of the standing committees may be obtained from 
the Clerk of the House of Representatives, and that will give you com- 
plete information on the rules. 

Mr. Walter. I think your attorney has a copy. 

Mr. EsTERMAN. Not the rule she is talking about, no, Mr. Congress- 
man. 

Mr. Walter. The rules of the House. 

Mr. EsTERMAN. I mean about no cross-examination. I have not 
seen that rule. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you please state the place of your birth ? 

Miss Burke. New Jersey. 

Mr, Tavenner. Yes? 

Miss Burke. Newark, N. J. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation ? 

Miss Burke. I trained as a professional dancer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee, please, what your 
formal educational training has been? 

Miss Burke. I did 3 years' work at the University of California, 
at Berkeley, after finishing grade school and high school. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry, I didn't hear. 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't hear the answer, either. Will you repeat the 
answer, Miss Witness ? We couldn't hear it. 

Miss Burke. I did 3 years' work at the University of California 
in Berkeley, Calif. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did you complete that work ? 

Miss Burke. I left in about February of 1946. 

(Representative Jackson reentered the hearing room at this point, 
3:10 p.m.) 

Mr. Taa^nner. Wlien did you begin your work at Berkeley ? 

Miss Burke. Enrolled in the fall semester in 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. Had you lived in Berkeley prior to beginning your 
studies there ? 

Miss Burke. No. I moved there for the express purpose of going 
to the university. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Where had you lived prior to going to Berkeley? 

Miss Burke. In San Francisco, Calif. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long had you lived in San Francisco? 

Miss Burke. From 1937 until I enrolled at the university. 

Mr. Tavennfjj. Where did you live when residing in San Francisco? 

Miss Burke. You mean — Will you please repeat the question? 
When I lived in San Francisco? 

Mr. Taatsnner. Yes. What was your address while living in San 
Francisco ? 

Miss Burke. Now, I counted one time and I found I lived in about 
20 different places. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 657 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the last place of residence while living 
in San Francisco and prior to your going to Berkeley ? 

(At this point Miss Burke conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 

Marshall.) 

Miss Btjrke. I am sorry. I hope you won't accuse me of bemg 
evasive, but I just don't remember. It was a long time ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you moved to Berkeley where did you live? 

(At this point Miss Burke conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. ScHERER. Does Mr. Esterman loiow where she lived ? 

Miss Burke. If you remember at that time housing was rather 
critical and I had a number of diilerent living arrangements with 
people, so I moved around quite a bit. I didn't live in as many places 
as I did in San Francisco, but do you have any particular place in 

mind? 

Mr. Tavenner. I just wanted to know where you lived while in 

Berkeley. 

Miss Burke. Well, I lived in a number of places. 

JNIr. Tavenner. Will you tell us where ? 

Miss Burke. May I ask you this : I don't want to get into a wrangle 
that the previous witness did with you. Are you asking about a 
place that perhaps has been mentioned in the testimony before this 
committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you to state to the committee where 
you lived while residing at Berkeley. That is a very simple question. 

(At this point Miss Burke conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Miss Burke. Well, since you seem to be playing a game and since 
you have not been Avilling to make clear the intention and the motive 
of your question, and since there appears to be something of a sinister 
nature that you apparently have reference to, I am going to have to 
decline to answer your questions, and I would like to state my reasons, 
if I may. 

Mr. Jackson. You do decline to answer the question ? 

Miss Burke. I do decline to answer the question ; yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. 

Miss Burke. I was interested in Mr. Doyle's statement the other day 
when he said that he had made an inquiry of the Library of Congress 
asking for a definition of the term "un-American," and while it seems 
this comes rather late in these proceedings, because your committee 
has existed for about 15 years, when I received my subpena, and this 
is no small thing to happen to a person — it is sort of like a man when 
he gets 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask the witness be directed to answer the 
question ? Wliat she is stating now is not responsive to the question. 

Miss Burke. I said I would give my reasons, and these are my 
reasons. 

Mr. Jackson. My understanding is that the witness declined to 
answer the question. However, I cannot conceive by any stretch of the 
imagination that her present statement is in any way responsive to 
or bears upon her reasons to refuse to testify. 

Miss Burke. It appears to me if I were important enough to be 
subpenaed before this committee at great cost to myself, and this in- 



658 COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

formation l^as been made available to every newspaper in this country, 
my picture has appeared across the newspapers all over this country; 
this has hit me very hard, and I have been tried and indicted and 
punished before everyone in this room, and if I seem to be enraged, 
I am enraged. 

Mr. Ja(^ks()n. I must ask the witness to confine herself to giving her 
constitutional reasons. 

I might add to that if you want your pictures in the papers again, 
you need only to say so, and you neecl only to state that you are not now 
nor have you ever been a member of the Communist Party. 

Miss Burke. I am not interested in your bribery on that count. 

Mr. Ci-ARi)Y. I move that remark be stricken from the record. 

Mr. Jackson. No, to the contrary, I want it in the record. 

Mr. Clardy. That should not be in the record. 

Miss Burke. I was fired from a job before I ever stepped foot into 
this room. 

Mr. Ja(^kson. Just a mom.ent. Let us have order. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, if I may 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. I ask it to be stricken because it is obviously a con- 
temptuous insult directed at every member of the committee, and I 
resent it. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Clardy, I think it is good for the United States 
Congress to read that kind of contemptuous remark by these witnesses. 

Mr. Clardy. I think this record is so chock full of it Congi-essman, 
that we have had enough. My patience is about exhausted. The 
limit of my patience has been passed. 

Mr. Jackson. There is an objection to striking it from the record. 
Proceed, please. 

Miss Burke. May I proceed, please? Before coming here I tried 
to decide for myself what one could say is American and what is un- 
American because this is a very important question which people have 
to answer for themselves. 

I know at one time human slavery in. this country was considered 
the American way of life. 

IMr. (Clardy. I move that this all be stricken. 

Mr. Jackson. Just a moment. The witness will suspend. The wit- 
ness has declined to answer the question. 

Miss Burke. I have not finished my answer. I have only begun 
my answer. 

Mr. Jackson. These are reasons why she is declining to answer the 
question, but the declination has already been entered in the record. 
I believe that is correct. 

Miss Burke. I have not finished. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well, proceed. 

Miss Burke. Less than ?)0 years ago women didn't have the right 
to vote, and that was considered American, but it no longer is. At 
one time children coidd work for 16 and 20 hours a day. That was 
American. It no longer is. At one time you could be paid anything 
that you wanted to by an employer but now we have a minimum wage. 
So you see the concept of what is American and what is un-American 
has changed with the years; and we can say in general the develop- 
ment of this country has been for things that are good for people. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 659 

You might state "progressive," if you will forgive me the use of 
that word. And it was important for me to understand what was 
American and what was un-American, because I was going to speak 
to a committee that says it is investigating un-American activities, 
and I have to search my own mind to know whether what I believe and 
what I do and have done and will continue to do is American or is not 
American. 

It is my understanding that the most precious right that anybody 
has is the right to Avork. 

Mr. ScHERER. What has that got to do with the question as to where 
she lives ? 

Miss Burke. Everything in the world. 

Mr. Jackson. Actually, I don't see that it relates to the question 
at all as to where she lives. 

Miss Burke. It has the utmost relationship. 

Mr. Jackson. But inasmuch as the committee is accused of limit- 
ing freedom of speech and everything else, and if this will speed up 
the hearing and permit us to get out of here before 6 o'clock, let us 
go ahead. 

Miss Burke. Thank you very much, ]*.Ir. Chairman. 

It is my understanding and my feeling that the right to work is 
perhaps the most important and most precious right that we have. 
And I have been denied the right to work. I have been trained many 
years to be a professional dancer, and when my Congress served a 
subpena on me and saw fit to release this information to the news- 
papers before I stepped foot into this room, it meant that they had not 
only accused me but tried me — they had punished me even before they 
knew what I was going to say. 

(Representative Morgan M. Moulder reentered the hearing room 
at this point, 3 : 20 p. m.j 

Miss Burke. The fact that a committee of this kind serves a sub- 
pena means a blacklist against you, and I am enraged and I think that 
IS un-American. You might at least have waited until I appeared 
here and showed that I was not in sympathy with the objectives of 
this committee, which I am not. 

Mr. Scherer. Are you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Miss Burke. Am I being rushed through this ? I would like to con- 
tinue this. It seems to me there are two questions pending. Is the 
previous question withdrawn, because I have not finished^ 

Mr. Jackson. Your declination to answer was to the question of 
where you lived in Berkeley. You have declined to answer that ques- 
tion and now you are in the middle of your reasons. You may go 
ahead with them. 

Mr. Clardy. I hope it is beyond the middle. 

Miss Burke. My next reason — and I am not saying this because I 
am a woman and feel I am talking too long, because most of the long 
speeches that have been made here were made by men 

Mr. Walter. Then you didn't hear the elderly lady the other day, 
did you ? 

Miss Burke. W^ell, she was reading names and she was not giving 
what you call voluntary information. 

This is my further reason for declining : That the associations that 
people have, and by that I mean the individuals that you know, or 



660 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

the org:anizations that you belong to, are not an area in which our 
Federal Government has the right to intervene. 

Now, this is particularly important to me because 4 days — I may be 
wrong one waj^ or the other, but within the matter of days after I had 
spoken on the floor of my union, I was served with a subpena. I am 
referring to last fall. 

And the lesson here was very clear to the people, I know to the other 
dancers in the union. 

I spoke on the contract as it affects dancers in films, and the lesson 
to them was, you may not get up on the floor of your union and speak 
honestly because if you do you will be subpenaed, and I consider this 
a very serious undermining of the free functioning of members of a 
trade union. 

Mr. Moulder. Can you give us a specific case of where that occurred ? 

Miss Burke. To me. I just told you it occurred to me. I have 
worked in films for 2 years and within a matter of a few days after 
I spoke on the floor of my union I was subpenaed by this committee. I 
did not work 1 more day in films. This is too much of a coincidence 
10 say it is a coincidence. 

Mr. Walter. That is a very serious thing. When was it you spoke ? 
Can you give me that date ? 

Miss Burke. It is understood I have not finished. 

Mr. Walter. I understand that, but what was the date? 

Miss BuRifE. The meeting was the end of August. 

Mr. Walter. Do you know the date ? 

Miss Burke. Twenty something. 

Mr. Walter. The 20th ? 

Miss Burke. About the 20th, perhaps a little bit later, and I was 
served with my subpena the first week of September. From that day 
on I didn't do 1 day's work in pictures. 

Mr. Walter. Have you got the subpena, Mr. Wheeler, that was 
served on this young lady? 

Miss Burke. The first time. 

Mr. Walter. Go ahead. 

Miss Burke. There were two. I meant the first one. 

Mr. Walter. Go ahead. 

Mr. Tavenner. I do not think it has been returned from the mar- 
shal's office. 

Mr. Ci^RDT. It was not served by the committee's investigator but 
by the United States marshal ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is right. 

Miss Burke. It was issued by Chairman Wood. I may still have it. 

Mr. Moulder. Wlien was it issued ? 

Mr. Wheeler. I will have to get a copy of it. 

Miss Burke. I was served around the 4th or 5th of September, and 
the meeting was late in August. 

Mr. Jackson. Continue with your statement, please. 

Mr. Walter. I am very much interested in this because you have 
made a serious charge and I am going to ascertain whether or not the 
subpena was issued before you spoke, and I am sure that it was. 

Miss Burke. I am not sure it was. 

Mr. Walter. I shall find out. 

Miss Burke. In fact, I believe the contrary is true. 

Mr. Walter. All right, I will let you know. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 661 

Miss Burke. It is my understanding further that the people of 
this country have the right to petition for redress of grievances, and 
one way that people do that is by associating themselves with others 
for things that they feel are wrong — the laws that they feel are wrong, 
and for making clear to their representatives in Congress what they 
would like to do since they are supposed to be our servants. 

And if you publish a list of organizations — it is now over 800, which 
must take in a tremendous number of people and must cover a wide 
area of thought, this means that people will be frightened away from 
actually expressing this right to petition for redress of grievances, 
because we have all learned that the only way you can do things 
effectively is why this trade union exists. You cannot do it alone. 
You must do it with otlier people and you are saying you may not 
do this unless "we approve of your reasons for getting together ; we 
approve of the objectives of the organization that you are joining," 
and I say you have no right to do that. 

On this same general point, and I guess you know I am referring 
to the first amendment, I understand that there is no exception made 
so far as how these specific freedoms may be expressed. It doesn't 
say you may do this and you may not do that. 

Further, I understand that there may be no unreasonable search 
and seizure ; that we are secure in our rights of property and person, 
and yet when you call me here and you want to know how I think 
and whom I know and where I have been and to what organization 
I may belong, you are invading the privacy, the right to privacy that 
I have in my person. 

And the spectacle we saw the other day of private business transac- 
tions which were invaded, the right to sexirecy of one's private corre- 
spondence, one's bank accounts, and also to associates seems to me 
there are many people out there who should have been frightened to 
see how far this encroachment has gone, and I think this is a violation, 
clearly, of the fourth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Has she been asked questions on all of those subjects? 

Mr. Walter. Let her go. 

Miss Burke. It is very difficult to continue 

Mr. Jackson. The question dealt with where the lady lives, and 
she is still in the process of giving her reasons for refusing to answer 
that question. 

Mr. Scherer. Wliere she lives? 

Mr. Walter. That is right. 

Mr. Clvrdy. I trust counsel has other questions. 

Miss Burke. Further, I understand that except for the rights that 
are expressly granted to our Federal Government, and it took many 
years before the powers of the Federal Government were clearly de- 
fined, the rights of our Federal Government, unless expressly given, 
are left with the people, and I say you have no right to do 

Mr. Tavenner. This is nothing more than a speech that is being 
made about the powers of government, and so on. It has nothing 
to do with her refusal to answer, and I think there must be some limit 
to this. 

Mr. Walter. "Wliat are you reading from. Miss Burke ? 

Miss Burke. My own typewritten notes. 

Mr. Jackson. I think it is obvious 



662 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Miss Burke. Also, of course, I have the Bill of Rights here and 
the cameraman perhaps wants it. 

Mr. Jackson. Just a moment, please, ]\Iiss Burke. It is quite obvi- 
ous this is just a lengthy harangue and has nothing to do with the 
question. 

Miss BuKKE. I really haven't much further to go, 

Mr. Jackson. It has nothing to do with the subject matter of the 
inquiry. 

Miss Burke. I am almost through. 

Mr. Jackson. I hope you will speed it up, if you can. Miss Burke. 

Miss Burke. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Clardy, Mr. Chairman, I spent several years in law school to 
learn the law on this subject, and I learned it much better than I am 
getting it now. 

Mr. Jackson. Proceed, Miss Burke. 

Miss Burke. I will tell you why it seems important to me to say 
this. This is a direct quote. It is right and proper in many cases 
that these freedoms, freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution, should 
be taken away. That was said by Mr. Velde 3 years ago, in 1950, in 
March, on the floor of the House of Representatives as chairman of 
this committee, and what he says in certain cases is that our consti- 
tutional rights should not be taken away, and I think we have a lot 
to worry about. 

Mr. Jackson. No one aspires to take civil rights away from the 
people of the United States of America, but in those instances where 
people are guilty of joining a conspiracy to violently overthrow the 
Government of this country they obviously sacrifice many of their 
privileges. 

Miss Burke. I wouldn't feel that way if I were here accused of a 
crime, and, so far as I know, I have not been accused of a crime, and 
since I am not being accused of a crime, but because I may disagree 
with your thinking, which I do, you have no right to tell me that I 
may not think the way I want to or anybody else. 

My last reason, and I hope this make you happy, and I want to give 
this last reason in relationship to all of the other reasons that I have 
given, that you may not say behind your back, "We have tried you, 
we have convicted you, we are punishing you," and now, "you must 
come here and say it is true or else." That is what you are sajdng to 
me, "Confess or else say it is true." 

Well, so far as my constitutional freedoms are concerned, I say that 
you have not the right to make me bear witness against, myself or to 
make me testify as to the credibility of any of your informers. 

Tliat is the fifth amendment, and I would like to say I, too, am proud 
of asserting the fifth amendment, because it took many, many years 
to have the fifth amendment added to our Constitution, It was no 
accident. It did not come about easily. People had to fight for the 
fifth amendment and I am proud to be one of those who asserts the 
dignity of the fifth amendment. 

Thank you very much. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. Do you have any further questions, Mr. 
Counsel ? 

Mr, Tavenner. Did you live at Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley ? 

(At this point Miss Burke conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 663 

Miss Burke. I tliink it shows that you did have something specific 
in mind when I asked you before if you had a specific address in 
mind. 

My answer to this question is that I decline to answer it, and I 
decline for all of the reasons that I have previously given, and which 
Mr. Jackson was good enough to give me time to recite. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Were you acquainted with Giovanni Rossi Lo- 
manitz ? 

Miss Burke. It sounds like he should be writing music or some- 
thing. Just a moment, please. 

(At this point Miss Burke conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Miss Burke. Could you identify this person ? 

Mr. Ta\tnner. Yes. 

Miss Burke. Male or female ? 

Mr. Taa-enner. Dr. Lomanitz was a scientist that Avas a member of 
the group that worked in the radiation laboratories at Berkeley, 
Calif., during 1943, according to my recollection. 

Miss Burke. A scientist working at the laboratory in Berkeley? 

Mr. Tavenker. Yes. 

Miss Burke. At the University of California ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Miss Burke. Have you finished the identification ? 

Mr. Tavenner. What is that ? 

Miss Burke. I couldn't tell if you had finished the identification. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry, I didn't understand you. 

Miss Burke. I couldn't tell if you had finished the identification. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. Yes. 

Miss Burke. Thank you. 

(At this point Miss Burke conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Miss Burke. Has he been named before this committee? It is sort 
of important to know. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you desire further information regarding it 

Miss Burke. I would appreciate that very much. 

Mr. Tavenner. He appeared as a witness before the committee and 
was asked the question, "Do you know Libby Burke?" And his reply 
was "Yes." 

He was asked if he attended a meeting at your home or party at 
your home on Shattuck Avenue. His reply was, "I cannot remember 
whether I have ever attended a party at her home on Shattuck Avenue 
or a meeting at her home on Shattuck Avenue." 

Does that help you to identify him ? Does that refresh your recol- 
lection ? 

Miss Burke. Can you read some more? I don't know in what 
context 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that refresh your recollection to any degree? 

Miss Burke, No. The testimony, I have never seen it. Can you 
tell me the context of this conversation ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Can I tell you some more? 

Miss Burke. I would appreciate it. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Mr. Davis ^ testified that he Avas recruited into a 
cell of the Communist Party among the group of scientists in radia- 
tion laboratories, and he was recruited by Dr. Lomanitz. Dr. 

>^ Robert R. Davis testified before the Committee on Un-American Activities on April 22, 
1949. 



664 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Lomanitz would not answer whether he had been a member of the 
Communist Party or not. Does that refresh your recollection ? 

Miss Burke. So I will understand what you just said, you said 
Dr. who, Davis, or somebody ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Davis. 

Miss Burke. Had testified? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Miss Burke. That this other person whose name I will not attempt 
to 

Mr. Tavenner. Had recruited him into the Communist Party. 

Miss Burke. Well, what does this have to do with me, this last 
part? I don't understand. 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked( you if you were acquainted with Dr. 
Lomanitz and you asked me to try to help to identify Dr. Lomanitz 
for you. I am trying to tell you what the record shows. 

Miss Burke. I thought there were further sections of the testimony 
which related to me and not another person. That is why I asked 
you to read on. Is this the total of the testimony as it is related to 
me? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. 

Miss Burke. I think it would be fair 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Lomanitz was asked if you were a member of 
the Communist Party, and his answer was, "I decline to answer that 
question on the same ground." The ground assigned being the fifth 
amendment. 

(At this point Miss Burke conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Miss Burke. Mr. Tavenner, it occurs to me that this is a very good 
example of the kind of testimony you have, which makes it disagree- 
able to you to have my attorney question people who give testimony 
about others. I think it would be fair that I be able to have my 
attorney question this person who says he knows me. 

Since I have been told it is against the rules and this will not be 
possible, and, by the way, I understand the Mata Hari overtones of 
the publicity I received — I was sort of nominated by my friends as 
the Mata Hari of 1953. I will have to decline to answer your question, 
and I will give all the reasons I gave before. 

Is it understood that they are all incorporated ? 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, you are assigning the same grounds 
you assigned before? 

Miss Burke. All the grounds previously given. Is that satisfactory ? 

Mr. Jackson. That is understood, that you are standing upon all 
the grounds contained in your statement. 

Miss Burke. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were any Communist Party meetings 

(At this point Miss Burke conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Held in your home at Berkeley, which were at- 
tended by members of the scientific group or by scientists from the 
radiation laboratories at Berkeley? 

(At this point Miss Burke conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Miss Burke. I was wondering if I heard your question. 

Mr. Tavenner. My question was whether or not there were any 
Communist Party meetings held in your home • 

Miss Burke. Thank you. 



GOMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 665 

Mr. Tavenner, At which scientists from the radiation laboratory 
were present. 

Miss Burke. I understand your question. Well, I think, as you 
probably know, I consider this to be the same kind of question, so I 
would have to give you the same answer, that is, to decline on the 
grounds I gave you a few moments ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name 
of Paul Crouch ? 

Miss Burke. If that is the man who I believe is a professional 
informer, I believe he earns his living that way, according to the news- 
paper accounts that I have read, if it is the man whom the Alsop 
brothers, Washington correspondents, have said to the new Attorney 
General, Mr. Brownell, and I quote them : 

One of the first investigations he should make, the first item on his agenda 
should be an investigation for informers, if he cares anything at all for Ameri- 
can civil liberties. 

I believe this man, whose name is very apt, if it is the same person, 
then of course I not only would not dignify any testimony he gave, but 
I will decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

(At this point Miss Burke conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Jackson. Obviously, the witness came prepared to meet the 
Paul Crouch matter if it came up. 

Miss Burke. I will tell you why his name appeared in the pub- 
licity, when my subpena was served on me 

Mr. Jackson. You had advance information ? 

Miss Burke. I was very curious to pick up whatever information 
I could in the press about it. He, it seems to me, goes from trial to trial 
peddling his wares. 

Mr. Jackson. You knew he had identified you as a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Miss Burke. It was released by Mr. Wheeler, wasn't it? Mr. 
Wheeler released it to the press. 

Mr. Jackson. You are mistaken. 

Miss Burke. I will show you newspaper clippings which quoted 
Mr. Wlieeler. 

Mr. Jackson. There were no releases made to the press by Mr. 
Wlieeler. 

Miss Bukke. I will show you newspaper clippings 

Mr. Walter. About what date ? 

Miss Burke. Within the last month, after I was served. 

Mr. Walter. According to this subpena, you were served on the 
24th of February. About that time ? 

Miss Burke. Yes, is the fourth estate will back me up. I wish it 
could do me some good professionally. I don't think it will. 

Mr. Walter. I know how it could. 

Miss Burke. That kind of press release I am not going to pay for. 

Mr. Clardt. I have checked up on this to be sure, since she made 
the statement first that Mr. Wlieeler released 

Miss Burke. How would anyone know I had been served ? 

Mr. Clardt. Never mind. I am not talking to you. 

Mr. Jackson. Counsel 

Miss Burke. How would anybody have known I had been sub- 
penaed ? 



666 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Clardy. Or you released it. 

Miss Burke. I wanted to continue working. I had another week 
to go on my contract. I wouldn't have cut my own throat. 

Mr. Clardy. You asked how it would happen. 

Mr. Jackson. Order, please. The current progi-am among those 
served with subpenas, at least those who have no intention of answer- 
ing the questions before the committee, has been to call a press con- 
ference. 

Miss Burke. How did you know? How did you know they gave 
out the statement? 

Mr. Jackson. I don't know that this happened in your case. That 
has been the current policy. I am sure our investigator did not release 
any news to the press. But that question is neither here nor there, so 
far as this interrogation is concerned. 

Miss Burke. I tliink you are impinging the newspapers. They 
would not quote a man unless he had released the information. They 
would not do a thing like that. I would like to bring you my clippings. 

Mr. Jackson. I have seen all the clippings I can stand for some 
time. 

Miss BuKKK. So have I. 

jNIr. Ta\'enner. Were you a niember of the Communist Party when 
you were living in Berkeley ? 

IVIiss BiTRjvE. To your question, to any questions that are like it, I 
will give the answer I gave you a few moments ago when I declined 
to answer. 

Mr. Jackson. You decline to answ^er this question? 

Miss BuRKE. Yes; I do. Do I understand that all the reasons I 
gave before are incorporated ? 

Mr. Jackson. You decline to answer for the reason previously 
stated. 

Miss Burke. Yes, all of them. Is that understood ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Have vou ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Miss Burke. Like they say, same question, same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Clardy ? 

Miss Burke. I am sorry to belabor that point. Is it understood for 
each declination all the reasons I have given are reiterated? 

Mr. Jackson. I don't know what the record shows. My under- 
standing is that you have declined to answer all the questions you have 
been asked on the grounds of the 1st, 5th, 6th, 9th, and 10th amend- 
ments. 

Miss Burke. Plus the personal one. 

Mr. Claijdy. That is my general recollection. There might have 
been some instances where she forgot to invoke it. 

Miss Burke. I think not. 

Mr. Clardy. I have no questions. It would be a useless w^aste of 
time. 

Mr. Walter. Is Burke your stage name or your given name? 

Miss Burke. My name really is Elizabeth. I w^as always called 
Lizzie. I changed it to Libby. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 667 

Mr. Walter. Burke is your family name? 

Miss BuKKE. Well, just a minute. A family name? What is a 
family name ? What do you mean, "family name" ? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Scherer ? 

(At this point Miss Burke conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. ScuEREK. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Frazier? 

Mr. Frazier. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Moulder? 

Mr. Moulder. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. I have only one thing, Miss Burke, and that is your 
position appears to be that you are being forced to come here and say 
that certain things are true. 

The committee Avould have been much better satisfied, I am sure, 
and all of the people of the country would have been much better 
satisfied, had 3^ou come here to say it was not true. 

1 cannot personally undei*stand any loyal American who today, in 
the light of worldwide aggression, is not prepared to stand up proudly 
and say, "T am not a member of the Communist Party." 

Miss Burke. May I say one thing ? If you and I don't look at life 
the same way, I grant you your privilege to believe that way. But I 
would like to be granted the same privilege by you. 

Mr. Jackson. You have been given every freedom of expression 
here today. Every effort has been made not to harass you unduly, 
but to ask you questions and give you an opportunity to answer them 
or not answer them. 

Miss Burke. I am grateful for that. I am questioning that my very 
presence here should have been necessary. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you have any further questions, Mr. Counsel? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. 

Mr. Jackson. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. 

Mr. Jackson. The witness is excused. 

The committee will stand at recess until 4 o'clock. 

( Short recess taken. ) 

Mr. Jackson. The committee w^ill be in order. 

During the morning session reference was made to several organi- 
zations and groups which had allegedly been infiltrated, in the field of 
education. Some news reports issued since this morning's hearings, 
however, have confused to some extent the names of the organizations 
with legitimate campaign organizations, which were not mentioned 
by the Chair this morning. To keep the record clear, I am therefore 
stating that neither the Committee for Good Schools, supporting the 
incumbents, nor the Save Our Schools Committee, were charged with 
Communist infiltration. 

It is not the intent of the committee to enter into any contest at the 
local level with respect to elections. 



668 COM]VrUNIST activities in the LOS ANGELES AREA 

However, I believe that it is important to point out when there is 
evidence of an organized effort to infiltrate organizations of whatever 
nature. I make this statement simply as a matter of clarification. 

Who is your next witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. George B. Kossini. 

Mr. Jackson. You swear that the testimony you are about to give 
before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth? 

Mr. Rossini. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF GEORGE B. ROSSINI 

Mr. Ta\^nner. What is your name, please, sir? 

Mr. Rossini. George B. Rossini. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your position, Mr. Rossini ? 

Mr. Rossini. Chief criminal deputy in the United States marshal's 
office. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Rossini, there was testimony by the last witness, 
Miss Libby Burke, that as a result of a speech made by her at the 
union hall on August 20 a subpena for her was issued. 

Mr. Moulder. August 20, what year ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is August 20, 1952. A subpena was issued 
for her appearance before this committee. I have asked you to exam- 
ine your records, because the original subpena as issued by the corn- 
mittee is in Washington, and we are unable to produce it at this 
moment. 

So, as I say, I have asked you to examine your records to see whether 
or not you had the subpena in your possession prior to the date on 
which she says it was issued. 

Mr. Rossinl Our records show that on July 28, 1952, an assignment 
was made to one of our deputies to attempt to serve Miss Burke. Our 
second record shows that on August 19 the same deputy, August 19, 
1952, the same deputy attempted to make service on Miss Burke, and 
our records show that on August 21, 1952, the service was made on 
Miss Burke. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was that service made upon her August 21? 

Mr. Rossini. 5503 Denny. That is what the records show. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether that was the residence of 
Miss Burke at that time? * 

Mr. Rossini. That I don't know, but I think it was the address that 
was on the subpena when we originally received it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your records show first that you had the subpena 
in your possession on or prior to July 28, 1952 ? 

Mr. Rossini. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how long you had that subpena before 
you made an effort to serve it? 

Mr. Rossini. No, sir; I don't. I would have to guess at that. 
Maybe a day or two. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Just a moment, Mr. Rossini. What was the address, again, that 
your records show service to have been made at ? 

Mr. Rossini. 5503 Denny. 

Mr. Ta\t5Nner. Mr. Chairman, that is the same address given by 
the witness a few minutes ago when she signed her voucher for her 
attendance fee. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 669 

Mr. Rossini. I might say this is the first subpena. The second 
subpena was not served at that address. 

Mr. Clardy. May I inquire, Mr. Chairman, just to be sure of the 
actual date again, that service was finally made? I want to be sure 
it is clearly in here. 

Mr. Jackson. It is. 

Mr. Tavenner. The witness testified it was August 21. 

Mr. Clardy. August 21. Is my recollection correct that the wit- 
ness testified that it was delivered to the witness the early part of 
September ? 

^Ir. Walter. Testified it was served on the 4th of September. 

Mr. Clardy. That is what I recall. 

Mr. Scherer. When did she say she made her appearance on the 
floor of the union ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The 20th of August. 

Mr. Jackson. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF NAOMI ROBESON, ACCOMPANIED BY HER COUNSEL, 
WILLIAM B. ESTERMAN AND DANIEL G. MARSHALL 

Mr. Jackson. Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that 
the testimony you are about to give, to tell the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mrs. Robeson. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Please be seated. You may proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please? 

Mrs. Robeson. I just wonder if I might thank you gentlemen for 
waiting for me here today. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is not necessary. 

Mrs. Robeson. Well, I have a child at home with the mumps and 
I wanted to be sure no one got it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand that. That isn't necessary. What is 
your name, please ? 

Mrs. Robeson. My name is Naomi Robeson. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you accompanied by counsel ? 

Mrs. Robeson. Yes; I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify themselves for the 
record. 

Mr. EsTERMAN. William B. Esterman. 

Mr. Marshall. Daniel G. Marshall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee please, the place of 
your birth? 

Mrs. Robeson. Cleveland, Ohio. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation? 

Mrs. Robeson. I am a mother and a homemaker and once upon a 
time I was an actress. 

Mr, Tavenner. During what period of time were you an actress? 

Mre. RoBEsox. Well, I was in Sunday-school plays when I was a 
little girl and school plays. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not speaking of the time when you were a 
child. 



670 COJVUVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mrs. IloBESON. AVell, all tlii(.M<ih my school life :in(l college life, I 
think. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you this question: How long have you 
lived in Los Angeles? 

Mrs. Robeson. Since 194ii. 

Mr. Tavenner. And have you engaged in the practice of your pro- 
fession of acting since 1942? 

Mrs. Robeson. Well, on and off. My major job since I have been 
here has been raising my children. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry, but I didn't hear j'ou. 

Mi-s. Robeson. My most important job while I have been here has 
been raising my children. I have acted on occasion, now and then. 

I would just like to say that if, if I may, the part that was most 
important to me in my life, if I might, the acting part — I have done 
work in 

Mr. Tavenner. Was your acting confined to the stage or was it 
also in the movies ? 

Mrs. Robeson. On the stage and in some motion-picture work, some 
radio work, and some television work. 

Mr. Tavenner. What screen credits have you received in the mo- 
tion-picture industry for acting? 

Mrs. Robeson. No screen credits, unfortunately. 

Mr. Tavenner. What are the major productions in which you have 
taken part. 

Mrs. Robeson. In motion pictures? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Robeson. Well, they have been bit parts, really. As I say, 
since I have been here, it has been so sporadic. I have been mostly at 
home with my children and there have been just bit parts. The part, 
if I may tell you about it, the stage part that I really — the part that 
meant the most to me, I think, the part of Manuela that I once played 
in, in a play called Girls in Uniform, and I think it was most impor- 
tant to me because it was the part of the destruction of a young girl 
in a regimented school. That was very important to me and it has 
been important to the rest of my children. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to 1942, where did you engage in acting? 

Mrs. Robeson. Well, that was mostly — well, that was more stage 
experience before coming out here. I was at the Cleveland Playhouse 
in Cleveland. I did, oh, just some little things in New York. The 
play was a terrible turkey, if you know what I mean. 

Mr. Walter. Was that the Sunday-school play? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Robeson, Mr. Owen Vinson appeared as a 
witness before this committee and testified that he had been a member 
of the radio group of the Communist Party — that is a group of Com- 
miniist Party members within the radio field, and that for a period of 
time he was the treasurer of that group and collected the dues from 
various individuals. 

He also testified that the amount that he collected sometimes 
amounted to $500 or $600 a month. He was asked the question as to 
what he did with the money and stated that he turned it over to you. 

NoAv, was that true or was it false? 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and 
Mr. Marshall.) 



COMlVrUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 671 

Mrs. EoBESON. I wonder, Mr. Tavenner, if my able counsel could 
cross-examine this gentleman — I don't know if I should call him a 
gentleman or not. 

Mr. Jackson. No; I am sorry. The rules of the committee have 
been well known to counsel for a long time, I am sure, in spite of the 
recurring questions which I am also sure are simply for the purpose 
of making a record. 

However, for the 10th time, the rules of the committee do not permit 
your counsel to cross-examine the witnesses. 

Mrs. Robeson. Excuse me. 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Moulder. Before answering that question, I would like to ask 
you, How do you think it would assist you in giving the answers or 
declining to answer, which you are about to do, to have your attorneys 
have the privilege of cross-examining this witness you have named? 

(At tliis point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr, 
Marshall.) 

Mrs. Robeson. I suppose this whole matter is a legal matter which 
I would have to refer to my attorneys. 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mrs. Robeson. And they assure me — perhaps if this is the beginning 
of a new procedure to be established by this committee, I think I 
would have to ask my lawyers to speak to you personally about it. 
These are legal matters, you know, and I am a mother and former 
actress and not a lawyer. If you would like my lawyers to speak to 
you about it now, fine. 

Mr. Jackson. Not at all. 

Mr. Walter. That is a pleasure we will have to forego this after- 
noon. 

jSIr. Jackson. May the Chair say that your counsel are certainly 
aware of the rules of the committee, aware that the rules of this com- 
mitee, like the rules of the other standing committees and the House 
of Representatives itself, do not permit cross-examination of wit- 
nesses; and further, to forestall what I imagine will be another re- 
quest, if you have a written statement to file with the committee we 
will be glad to receive it and consider it. Proceed, counsel. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. May I have an answer to the question? 

Mrs. Robeson. I think the question you asked me was whether this 
was true or false, was that it, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes; whether the Connnunist Party dues from the 
radio group were turned over to you by Mr. Vinson, Owen Vinson. 

Mrs. Robeson. Yes. Since I am not being permitted to cross- 
examine the gentleman in question, I will, of course, refuse to answer 
this question out of my own conscience and I would like to state my 
reasons for so refusing. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you decline to answer the question ? 

Mrs. Robeson. Yes, I do. I most certainly decline. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well, proceed. 

]\Irs. Robeson. And I decline to answer this question primarily, 
I think, as a mother, because I feel that 

31747—53 — pt. 3i 5 



672 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Just a moment. 

Mr. Jackson. Order in the liearin<T room. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not attem])ting to imply in any way that this 
money was personal money. This money was official money raised 
through dues and assessments in the Communist Party. That is the 
money 1 am speaking of. 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and 
Mr. Marshall.) 

j\Ir. Clardy. And may I suggest something^ We are not attacking 
the institution of motherhood in tliat question and I think the wit- 
ness should be directed to answer in one fashion or another. 

]\Ir. Jackson. The witness has, as I understand it, declined to 
answer the pending question. She is now about to embark on what I 
trust will not be too lengthy an explanation. 

Mrs. Robeson. No, it won't, but it is meant most sincerely. This is 
a very important question. The whole realm of these questions is 
important and it is very important to me to answer a question in this 
general field of questioning as I see fit and as comes from my conscience 
and if I may I will be brief, and I want to say it. 

]Mr. Doyle. Go ahead. 

Mrs. Robeson. T feel that the future of not only my children but 
America are at stake in this hearing room and I want to say why I 
feel that way. 

I want my children to live proudly with their own religious beliefs, 
with no inquiry by any one of you gentlemen as to wliat they are. 

And I want my children to read all kinds of books and to sing all 
kinds of songs and not just the ones that you may think fit for them 
to read. 

Mr. Sciierer. Pardon me. You understand the Communist Party 
wouldn't permit those things, don't you ? 

Mrs. Robeson. May I go on, please? I tried to teach my children 
not to be rude. I hate for tliem to see a Congressman rude to us. 

Mr, Walter. You would be surprised to know how many mothers 
you are insulting with such talk. 

Mr. Jackson. The witness will proceed, please. 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and 
Mr. Marshall.) 

Mrs. Robeson. May I continue, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Robeson. And I would like to say what I want to say really 
without being interrupted. I tliink tliere were people who applauded 
in the arena when the early Christians 

Mr. Clardy. I can't hear you. Your voice is not carrying here at 
all. Could you speak up a little louder? 

Mrs. Robeson. I think there were people 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman, may I make this statement, or object, 
or point out that the witness' statements are not relevant to the ques- 
tion, nor to reasons for declining to answer, which I understand she 
stated she declines to answer the statement, 

Mr. Jackson. I think that is clearly understood. I think everyone 
listening to her realizes we haven't had any statements that are 
responsive to the questions, so far as constitutional privilege is con- 
cerned. However, in order that we will not be accused of strangling 
free speech, I think perhaps we can spend 5 minutes, if you can finish 
it in 5 minutes. We will appreciate that. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 673 

Mrs. Robeson. Apparently I do agree with you gentlemen here on 
some things, and I think if I am given 5 minutes, perhaps, to disagree 
the same as others were given 5 days to agree, I will appreciate 
it. 

Mr. Doyle. Go ahead, young lady, please. 

Mrs. Robeson. This is the way I would interpret the amendments 
to the Constitution and I want to put it in my own words. 

I want my children to come together peacefully with their neigh- 
bors, with no interference from some people. I want my children 
when they are older to feel free to write to their Congressman and to 
their President on any subject they may consider a grievance and to 
do it without fear. 

To me that would mean the first amendment to the Constitution. 

Furtliermore, as a result of the experience of my life and all that 
I have learned in my lifetime is a part of my thinking and I will 
allow no one to search my thoughts and to my way of thinking that 
is the meaning of the fourth amendment to the Constitution. 

Furtliermore, the pain and the tragedy of the inquisition is some- 
thing that I, with my biblical name and all that that name represents, 
is something I cannot forget and I am very proud and very happy to 
be living in a country where no one is forced to become a witness 
against himself and, as I interpret it, that is the noble fifth amend- 
ment to the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Clardt. Are we to interpret that as an invocation for the pro- 
tection of the fifth amendment? 

Mrs. Robeson. May I say that my feeling about the fifth amend- 
ment to the Constitution is for the protection of all people who live 
in the United States. 

Mr. Jackson. Do I understand, then, that you decline to answer 
the question that was asked ? 

Mrs. Robeson. I do decline on those grounds, in terms of what they 
mean to me. 

Mr. Jackson. Upon the grounds of the first, fourth, and fifth 
amendments, the witness refused to answer the question and do you 
have any further questions, counsel ? 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Yes. 

Mr. Leopold Atlas, a writer in Hollywood, testified in an executive 
statement that he was a member of the Communist Political Asso- 
ciation in Hollywood and he was assigned to a group in San Fernando 
Valley as a writer. 

He testified that lie was the treasurer of this group for a period of 
time, and that while he was treasurer he collected Communist Party 
dues and then he remitted them to you. 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that true or false ? 

Mrs. Robeson. What was — what did you say that name was? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Mr. Leopold Atlas. 

Mrs, Robeson. How do you spell it? 

Mr. Tavenner. He is also known by the first name of Les, as I 
understand. The spelling of that last name is A-t-1-a-s. 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 



674 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Tavexner. I think I should state, Mr. Chairman, that the 
person so testifying, according to our information and his own testi- 
mony, left the Communist Party in 1945 or possibly a little later. 

Mrs. Robeson. May I ask when and where this man made these 
statements ? Did you say that this was an executive 

Mr. Tavenner. The question is, Is the statement true or false, 
wherever it was made and whenever it was made ? The time of making 
the statement or the place has nothing to do with its truth or falsity. 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mrs. Robeson. You mean I was not allowed the privilege of hearing 
anything about this before this time ? I mean, these people who make 
statements 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you need time to answer that question ? 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mrs. Robeson. Was I ever served with any notice of when and where 
this testimony was given ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer my question ? 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred w^ith INIr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mrs. Robeson. In view of the statement made by counsel, since I 
am partly being judged, in a sense, here, by people who seem to sell 
souls for a living, or something, of course I must decline to answer 
this question. 

I mean, when one is confronted wdth things like this, without any 
possibility of any cross-examination, I wdll therefore decline on the 
grounds of the first amendment to the Constitution of the United 
states, because I feel that you gentlemen are doing more than just an 
investigation of what you are investigating. I think you are really 
delving into the realm of many fields. 

Mr. Clardy. I suggest this is not responsive to the question, and 
she be directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Jackson. Does the gentleman expect a responsive answer? 

Mr. Ci>ARDY. No, but I thought by some accident she might get along 
to her real objective. 

Mrs. Robeson. I will also decline to answer this question on the basis 
of the fourth amendment to the Constitution and on the basis of the 
fifth amendment, since people present evidence here, obviously, and 
the veracity of people is not to be questioned, I must decline to answer 
because I cannot become forced to become a witness against myself. 

Mr. Walter. The best way to question the veracity of the w^itness 
would be to deny their statement. 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

JSIr. Walter. It is very simple. 

Mrs. Robeson. Since this is again a legal matter and my attorneys 
advise me that there is a better way, all I can suggest is that you 
confer with them. 

Mv. Moulder. INIr. Chairman. 

Mrs. Robeson. Would you like them to tell you ? 
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Moulder. 

Mr. Moulder. If the accusation was false, wouldn't yon deny it? 
Or would you deny it ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 675 

Mrs. Robeson. Pardon me a minute, Mr. Monlder. 

(At tliis point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mrs. Robeson. May I liave that read back, Mr. Moulder? Do you 
want to repeat the question? 

Mr. Moulder. I asked you if you would deny the charge of 
accusation of which the witness has testified, that is, the charges about 
you, which you have declined to answer. 

I am asking you the question, If it were false, would you deny it? 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mrs. Robeson. Do I direct my answer to you, Mr. Moulder, or to 
Mr. Tavenner? 

]\Ir. Jackson. Mr. Moulder. 

Mrs. Robeson. Mr. Moulder, I think all of these questions are a 
part of the same question, and I will therefore decline on the same 
grounds that I stated before. I might add that any such question, I 
will use the same answer. I hope this is understood and I don't 
have to repeat the grounds. If you want to, I will be glad to, because 
they mean a great deal to me. 

Mr. Jackson. You simply decline to answer upon the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Robeson, you used the language, in describing 
Mr. Atlas, which I cannot let go unchallenged, that you referred to 
him as a person who sold his souk 

Mrs. Robeson. Pardon? 

Mr. Tavenner. I understood you to say that. 

Mrs. Robeson. No, no ; I don't think I said that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Or a person who sells souls. 

Mrs. Robeson. Do you want to read it back? 

Mr. Tavi^nner. I want to say, in behalf of Mr. Atlas, that he, like 
a great many other people who have been sr.bpenaed before this com- 
mittee, have testified honestly and truthfully in answer to the ques- 
tions by this committee. They have done it out of the sense of very 
deep patriotism to this country. I cannot let go unchallenged the 
statement you made about it. 

(At tliis point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mrs. Robeson. I just want to say one word, Mr. Tavenner. I feel 
I also have a great felling of patriotism for my country. 

(At this point JSfrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Estennan.) 

Mr. Esterman. Just a minute. 

Mr. SciiERER. May I ask a question? 

Mrs. Robeson, May my attorney make a request, insofar as the 
audience sounds are coming forth? I think that people have a right 
in tliis country to express opinions, and I am expressing an opinion 
that may be somewhat different from the opinion of the people in the 
audience, but I would listen respectfully to them if they were pre- 
senting an opinion, and I would like to ask their respect to my 
opinions. 

Mr. Jackson. You are expressing an opinion and in its way the 
audience is expressing its opinion. 

Mr, Marshall. Answer her request, that the counsel be allowed to 
address you concerning the audience. 



676 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Jackson. No; I am sorry. I have tried on all occasions since 
I have been in the chair to maintain order in the hearing room. 

Mr. Marshall. You haven't succeeded. 

Mr. Jackson. I have done the best I could. 

Mr. Marshall. It hasn't been good enough. 

Mr. Jackson. Having listened to the witness 

Mr. INIarshall. You provoke this. You provoke this. You provoke it. 

Mr. Jackson. I am sorry. I say perhaps the feelings of the people 
in the audience are fully as strong as the witness'. 

I have tried on all occasions to keep the audience in order and will 
continue to call them to order and ask them for cooperation in keeping 
the hearing in order. 

Mr. Marshall. You incite that. You encourage that. 

Mr. Jackson. The Chair will hear no further argument from 
counsel. 

Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. Mrs. Robeson 

Mrs. Robeson. Is there a question pending here? 

Mr. Scherer. Just a minute. Mrs. Robeson, have you ever received 
any compensation from the Communist Party for services which you 
rendered to the Communist Party? 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mrs. Robeson. Mr. Scherer, I have been watching some of this on 
television and listening here from the room, and I have noticed while 
you gentlemen make statements to continue the kind of opinion that 
is expressed by this committee. I feel there is much room in this 
country for many kinds of expressions of opinion. It is the same 
question, Mr. Scherer, made in the form of a statement over and over 
again by this committee. 

I think there are good things in all people. We can find those 
good things and a-row together in this country. I will decline 

Mr. Jackson. Will the witness answer the question? 

Mrs. Robeson. I will decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. Jackson. Very well. 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr, Esterman.) 

Mr. Scherer. Isn't it a fact 

Mr. Marshall. Don't wave your finger at the witness. 

Mr. Scherer. You put yours down then. 

Mr. Marshall. I am telling 

Mr. Clardy. May I ask you to admonish counsel again, Mr. 
Chairman? 

Mr. Jackson. I have on several occasions. 

]\Ir. Marshall. Again I am told to shut up by somebody in the 
audience. This gentleman right here [indicating]. He says, "That 
is right." 

Mr. Jackson. The gentleman in the audience and all of the audience 
will kindly not make audible comments. I will again admonish coun- 
sel to address all his remarks through his client, in an inaudible tone 
of voice. 

Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. Have you ever rendered any services to the Commu- 
nist Party for which you have not received compensation ? 



COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 677 

Mrs. Robeson. Mr. Scherer, again it is the same question that you 
repeat over and over again. 

Mr. Scherer. I get the same answer. 

Mrs. Robeson. Of course, because I must decline to answer this ques- 
tion. You are trying to, I think, by the repetition of this question, 
separate people, one from another, in this country. Let's get together. 
Let's grow up together and not separate one from another. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you decline to answer ? 

Mrs. Robeson. I decline on the same grounds previously stated. I 
think the Constitution of the United States is a magnificent document. 

Mr. Jackson. So do I. I hope we can hold on to it. 

Mrs. Robeson. I hope so, too. 

Mr. Marshall. See, Mr. Jackson, you did it again. 

Mr. Doyle. I move that 

Mr. Jackson. Counsel will direct his remarks through his client. 
I do very sincerely hope we can maintain and hold on to the Constitu- 
tion of the United States. If that is not the expression of an Amer- 
ican, one an American should make, I will apologize. However, I 
don't think that is the case. 

Mr. Marshall. Is there a question pending ? 

Mrs. Robeson. Is there any question pending? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am prepared to ask you one. A witness by the 
name of Max Silver, who was organizational secretary 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you ready? 

Mrs. Robeson. Yes. 

Mr. Tav-enner. Mr. Max Silver, who was organizational secretary 
of the Communist Party in Los Angeles County for a number of years, 
testified before this committee and told this committee the circum- 
stances under which he had been a member and left the party. 

Being a very high functionary in the party, we were anxious to 
learn from him how the large sums of money which were collected in 
Hollywood were handled. Mr. Silver advised us iri his sworn testi- 
mony that the money collected by the northwest section of the Com- 
munist Party did not go through the county or State organization, 
but went directly to the national headquarters at New York. 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson left the hearing room at this 
point, 4: 50 p. m.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any knowledge how the money was col- 
lected from dues in the northwest section of the Communist Party and 
was disposed of or transmitted ? 

Mrs. Robeson. Mr. Tavenner, without the desire for you to assume 
anything by my answer, for the same reasons I have given before I 
will decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Walter. May I ask a question? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Walter. To whom did Max Silver testify as to who collected 
the money that was transmitted to New York? To whom was it paid 
by the members? 

Mr. Tavenner. Max Silver did not testify who collected the dues 
from the northwest section of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Moulder. You are just trying to find out. 



678 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. I am trying to find out what was done with the 
money. It did not go through State and county headquarters, accord- 
ing to Mr. Silver. 

Were you the secretary-treasurer of the northwest section of the 
Communist Party? 

Mrs. KoBESON. Mr. Tavenner, you. repeat these things over and 
over and over again. Therefore, I will repeat over and over and over 
again to you the same answers. 

I decline to answer that on exactly the same grounds I have stated 
before, because I think your repetition of this over and over and 
over again is doing great harm to the good will of citizens of the 
Unitecl States of America. We can be good neighbors, and I think this 
kind of thing destroys good neighbors. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, you do not approve of the commit- 
tee undertaking to investigate how the Communist Party manipulated 
its organization in this area, is that the position you are taking? 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mrs. Robeson. No ; I don't think that is what I said. I think the 
repetition over and over again is what I said before. 

Mr. Ta-\^nner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Robeson. Mr. Tavenner, again, without your assuming 
anything, I will decline to answer that question on exactly the grounds 
and for the reasons that I gave before. 

Mr. Clardy. Quiet, please. 

JNIr. Scherer. Are you still the treasurer of the the northwest 
section ? 

Mr. Moulder. If you were not a member of the Communist Party, 
don't you think you would deny it? 

Mr. Clardy. Just a minute. 

Mr. Scherer. Are you still the treasurer of the northwest section? 

Mrs. Robeson. As I said before, by statements you gentlemen — ques- 
tions you gentlemen assert, assumptions — are sometimes made by 
people that are listening. I think assumptions like this should not 
be made. 

I will refuse to answer this question on the same grounds I prev- 
iously stated. 

Mr. Scherer. If you weren't the treasurer, will you so answer, ISIrs. 
Robeson ? 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman.) 

Mrs. Robeson. Well, again, because you gentlemen repeat these 
questions over and over again to settle something in people's minds, 
I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds that I previously 
stated. I hate to see atomic dust spread around in the eyes of people 
in this country, and I think we all — I would just like to add this quo- 
tation, if I may, from the Supreme Court, that, "Compulsory unifica- 
tion of opinion leads to the unananimity of the graveyard," and, gen- 
tlemen, I am more interested in birthday parties than in graveyards. 

I decline to answer any question on this subject, because I think 
it is attempting to lead to conformity and to unanimity of o])inion. 
I decline to answer any more questions you may ask me in this de- 
])artment on the same grounds that I have previously stated. 

Sliall T repeat them for you ? 

Mr. Clardy. That will not be necessary. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 679 

Mr. SciiERER. Just one more question. Did you handle the funds 
rliat were transmitted from the northwest section directly to the 
national headquarters, instead of putting it through the State and 
local organization? 

(At this point Mrs. Eobeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Mai-shall.) 

(Representative Donald L. Jackson reentered the hearing room at 
this point, 4: 59 p. m.) 

Mrs. Robeson. Although, Mr. Scherer, I don't remember the exact 
wording of your question, I assume it is in the same vein of questioning 
and therefore I will decline to answer on the same grounds, with the 
addition of something that has always been important to me, that is, 
l^oliticians think of the next election, but statesmen think of the next 
generation. I think our men in Congress should think of being states- 
men these days. 

Mr. Scherer. Now, did you transmit all the funds that came into 
your hands as treasurer of the northwest section to the national party ? 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mrs. Robeson. Mr. Scherer, as I recall your last question, you said 
to me, "Now^, one more question," and you have made it 2 questions, so 
I will give you 2 of the same answers. 

Mr. Scherer, again I will decline, of course, to answer this question 
for the same reasons I stated when the first such question was asked 
of me. 

Mr. Scherer. Thank you. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Walter ? 

Mr. Walter. I believe you declined to answer a question a minute 
ago because you said assumptions are being made by people who are 
listening. T\niat did you mean by that ? 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mrs. Robeson. I think, was it Mr.- 

Mr. Walter. Walter. 

Mr. Jackson. Walter. 

Mrs. Robeson. Walter, J think if I didn't state it before in my 
original declination, I certainly meant that the fifth amendment to 
the Constitution was written for innocent people so that we would 
not have an inquisition in this country. I think that Judge Denman 
made this clear. This is what I meant by no assumptions, that the 
fifth amendment was written for innocent people. 

Mr. Jackson. Is there aything else, Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. No. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Moulder? 

Mr. Moulder. A moment ago I started to ask a question. I didn't 
realize a question was already pending. 

In answer to the question ]>ropounded to you by Mr. Tavenner, when 
he asked you whether or not you were a member of the Communist 
Party, you declined to answer for reasons previously given in your 
testimony. • 

The question I want to ask you is, if you are asked whether or not 
you are a member of the Communist Party you wouldn't so deny it, 
if it were untrue ? 



680 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

(At this point JMrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mrs. EoBESON. Well, I can't say often enough that the same kind of 
questioning is repeated over and over and over again, so that people 
will think that anything which is for people coming together, it be- 
comes a subversive thing, and I will decline, of course, Mr. Moulder, 
because it is the same kind of question, and I will decline for the same 
reasons I have given before. 

Mr. IMouLDER. Then people will think you are a member of the 
Communist Party. That is what they will think. 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and 
Mr. Marshall.) 

Mr. Jackson. I understand there is no question pending. 

Mr. Esterman. We understand there is. 

Mr. Clardy. No, there isn't. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Moulder said he had no question pending. 

Mr. Moulder. No. 

Mrs. Robeson. That was not a question, Mr. Moulder ? 

Mr. Moulder. No. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I couldn't help but notice, Mrs. Robeson, your decla- 
ration that you were primarily interested as a mother in your appear- 
ance before this committee today and the future of your children and 
American children. You said the future of American children is at 
stake in this very hearing room. Remember saying that? 

Mrs. Robeson. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Doyle. Then I noticed also that you said, "I want my children 
to write their Congressman and President." 

If it isn't too personal, can you tell me about how old your kiddies 
are? 

Mr. Esterman. That is too personal. 

Mrs. Robeson. I don't think I really want to answer that. 

Mr. Doyle. Are they in an elementary school, or what ? 

Mrs. Robeson. They are young children and if you want to bring 
them into this hearing 

Mr. Doyle. No; I wasn't going to ask their names or anything of 
that kind. I was wondering how long it might be before they would 
begin writing their Congressman and President. 

The reason I say that is I suppose you would want them to write 
their Congressman and would expect their Congressman to enforce 
the laws of the United States. You would expect that, wouldn't you ? 

Mrs. Robeson. I certainly would, Mr. Doyle, and I would certainly 
want them to feel free to write to their Congressman if they disagreed 
with some law. 

Mr. DoYT.E. That is right. And if when they grow up, or if they 
were now of an age to write to their Congi'essman from California, 
because both Mr. Jackson and I are from Los Angeles County and we 
are here under Public Law No. GOl, passed by the Congress of the 
United States, and as it so happens that law tells us to come to Cali- 
fornia and otlier cities all over the United States to make inquiry into 
subversive and un-American activities and communistic propaganda. 

Now, that being a law passed by the United States Congress, you 
would, I know, expect your children to expect their Congressmen to 
obey that law, wouldn't you ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 681 

(At this point Mrs. Robeson conferred with Mr. Esterman and Mr. 
Marshall.) 

Mrs. EoBESON. Well, Mr. Doyle, this perhaps is why, in a sense, I 
have been subpenaed to come here, because perhaps my opinions on 
some things might differ from yours and I therefore wondered if I 
might — if I might ask you, what do you consider is un-American ? 

Mr. Doyle. Well, of course, we are not undertaking to interfere 
with any persons' thinking or thoughts. We are undertaking, how- 
ever, to uncover, and expose to the sunlight of truth and light of day, 
j)eople, wherever they are, who are openly or secretly advocating sub- 
versive activities for the forceful and violent overthrow of our form of 
government. 

Now, just a minute, counsel, let me finish. 

Mr. Esterman. Now, just a minute. I want to talk to my client. 

Mr. Doyle. While I am answering her question? 

Mr. Esterman. Yes, consider yourself interrupted. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you veiy much. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that such insolent conduct be 
repeated that something be done about it. This has gone far enough. 

Mr. Jackson. Order in the committee. 

Mr. Doyle. Would you like me to finish answering your question? 

Mr. Walter. Wait a minute. The witness is conferring with her 
attorney. 

Mr. Doyle. If your attorneys do not want me to answer your ques- 
tion, of course, that is another matter. 

Mr. Marshall. Could I reply to that, Mr. Doyle? Was that di- 
rected to us ? 

Mr. Jackson. No. 

Mr. Scherer. Perhaps it should have been. 

Mr. Jackson. Will counsel and his client please consult and let us 
get along with this? 

Mr. Marshall. I have a question pending of Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. You are not in the witness chair. Go ahead. 

Mrs. Robeson. Go ahead, Mr. Doyle, I am sorry. 

Mr. Walter. May I interrupt at this point? Perhaps I can shed a 
little light on this matter. You talked nbout the reason you were here. 
Well, it happens to be one of the cases which I know something about. 
I know why you have been subpenaed. You have been subpenaed 
because we have been interested for a long while in ascertaining how 
money was siphoned off from Plollywood to New York to support the 
Communist Party in the United States and we were informed that 
you could throw some light on that situation. That is why you have 
been subpenaed. 

Mrs. Robeson. I would just like to say 

Mr. Walter. Does that answer your question? 

Mrs. Robeson. I don't think I asked a question. 

Mr. Doyle. You asked the question as to why you were subpenaed, 
the reason for the subpena. 

Mrs. Robeson. I think I said — if you will look at the record, you 
will undoubtedly see the reason why I was brought here and that was 
because I may differ on certain subjects. 

Mr. Do'i'LE. No, that isn't the reason you were brought here. 

Mr. Walter. You were brought here because we thought you could 
throw some light on the manner in which the thousands of dollars 
that were raised in Hollywood found its way into New York. 



682 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. DoYi,E, Mr. Chairman, may I just finish very briefly, please? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. With apologies to both of you. But I think this is 
perhaps an opportune time for me to say in about 30 seconds, and 
make it indelibly clear as I can to j'ou, as a mother of children and 
some of the rest of us have children and grandchildren, too, and we 
are just as much concerned about the future of our Nation as some of 
the rest of you ; but I wish I could make this indelibly clear that this 
committee has not and will not knowingly be a party to interfere 
with the thinking of people — interfere in the different realms of 
thinking. 

"\'\Tiat we are interested in is to fulfill our assignment, which is to 
investigate and submit back to Congress what we find to be the facts 
about the extent of subversive and un-American activities and propa- 
ganda in this country. 

Now, it is in that area that we are challenged with the fulfilling of 
an official duty, with reference to what bearing the facts may have on 
legislation in Congress. In other words, it has a legislative purpose 
and background. Now, I wish to say this to you with respect to your 
opinion : If it so happens that the person happens to be an American 
mother wlio happens to be a member of the American Communist 
Party, which we believe to be, and which we believe to be from the 
facts we have and the evidence we have, we believe to be intent, if 
you please, on the forceful and violent overthrow of our form, our 
constitutional form of Government. Now, that is our assignment, 
Mrs. Robeson, and that is why I asked you about your kiddies. 

Let me ask one more question — no, I think I will not. I will with- 
draw tliat, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Jackson. INIr. Frazier? 

INIr. Fraziek. No questions. 

IVIr. Jackson. Is there any reason why the witness should not be 
excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. 

Mr. Jackson. The witness is excused. 

Mrs. EoBESON. I hope we can all live to work together. 

Mr. Jackson. Order in the hearing room. I hope that it will not 
become necessary to ask the marshal at this late date in the hearings, 
to take any action toward clearing the hearing room. Those in the 
hearing room will kindly cooperate with the Chair in maintaining 
order and not express approval or disapijroval. 

Mr. Clardy ? 

Mr. Clardy. JNIr. Chairman, as everyone knows, including the mem- 
bers of the committee, and you especially, you and Mr. Doyle, I am 
not a native or a resident of California. But since I must, because of 
airplane reservations, get out of here tomorrow morning and miss to- 
morrow's session, I can't let this occasion pass without thanking the 
people of this section of the Nation for their splendid cooperation 
they have given to the committee, and for tlie lovely weather they 
have blessed us witlu 

I must confess that I have been a little bit disturbed by some of the 
performances before us and I think we are leaving it in good hands, 
however, when we leave for the East. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 683 

Mr. DoTLE. INIr. Chairman, I want to read this one telegram. 

]\Ir. Jackson, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Doyle. I wish to read a telegram which was sent in my care to 
the committee today. It is from Huntington Park, Calif., which is 
in my Congressional district, and it is as follows: 

Hon. Congressman Clyde Ex5Yle, 

House Un-American Activities Committee, 
Federal Butl'Ung, Los Angeles. 
During the recent hearings of your committee in Los Angeles, the name 
Bob Roberts was used in connection with Communist activities. Since I am 
known to many as George or Rob, this might be confused witli me. My many 
friends and associates will know better, but others may not. For the record 
and the pul)lic, I would like to say that neitlier my wife Marvel nor I are memher.s 
of the Comnmnist Party. We never have been and never intend to be. In fact, 
myself and the organization, CIO, which I am privileged to represent, have always 
worked hard to eliminate those ills that breed communism in America and we 
will continue to do so. I am asking you as my friend and Congressman to 
please clear this for the record. 
Thanking you very kindly, 

George Bob Roberts, 
^Ycstern Regional Representative, CIO. 

I would like to offer that for the record. 

IMr. Jackson. Very well, it will be received. Is there anything 
further from any of the committee members, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Nothing. 

Mr. Jackson. In that case, the committee will stand in recess until 
10 o'clock on touiorrow morning. 

(Whereupon, at 5 : 20 p. m., the hearing was recessed until 10 
a. m., Tuesday, March 31, 1953.) 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
LOS ANGELES AKEA— Part 3 



TUESDAY, MARCH 31, 1953 

United States House of Kepresentati\t:s, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Los Angeles^ Calif. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to call, 
at 10 : 05 a. m., in room 518, Federal Building, Hon. Donald L. Jack- 
son (acting chairman), presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Donald L. Jackson 
(acting chairman) and Clyde Doyle. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Thomas 
W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk; and William A. Wheeler, investigator. 

]Mr. Jackson. The committee will be in order. 

On the instructions of the chairman of the full committee of the 
House Committee on Un-American Activities, a subcommittee has 
been appointed for the purpose of hearing testimony this morning; 
the subcommittee consisting of Mr. Doyle and myself. 

Earlier in the week, I believe on Monday last, I inserted into the 
record the action of the board of trustees of the Los Angeles Bar 
Association at its meeting on February 17 relative to certain changes 
which were recommended for the business and professions code of 
the Los Angeles Bar Association. 

There appears to have been a misunderstanding in some quarters, as 
to whether or not the action of the board of trustees represented a final 
action on the part of the Los Angeles Bar Association, or whether 
the action was preliminary and in the form of a recommendation. 

In order that the matter may be entirely clear so far as the oflEiical 
record of the hearings is concerned, I should like to read into the 
record at this point a letter addressed to me by Mr. W. I. Gilbert, Jr., 
president of the Los Angeles Bar Association, in which Mr. Gilbert 
says: 

Sir : This will advise that on February 17, 1953, the board of trustees of the 
Los Angeles Bar Association considered the Belcher report, revised its language 
somewhat, and passed a resolution recommending the adoption of section 6068 
of the business and professions code to read as follows : 

"(6) To maintain the respect due to the courts of justice and judicial officers, 
and to refrain from disresi>ectful, offensive or disorderly conduct during the 
course of hearings before lawfully constituted legislative, executive and ad- 
ministrative bodies, boards, committees, or officers. 

"(c) Never to seek to mislead by an artifice or false statement of fact or law a 
court of justice or judicial officers, or a legislative, executive or administrative 
body, board, committee or officer." 



686 COMIVrUNIST activities in the LOS ANGELES AREA 

The portions above underlined is the l;xuf;uage recommended for adoption by 
the board of trustees. 

Very truly yours, 

W. I. Gilbert, Jr., President. 

Who is your first witness, Mr. Counsel? 

Mr. TAVENNEii". Mr. Chairman, before calling the first witness, may 
I read into the record certain messages that have been received? 

]Mr. Jackson. Certainly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, a communication has been received 
from a person by the name of Lillian Heron. It reads as follows: 

Wish it made clear on the record that the Lillian Heron listed by Mrs. Macia, 
Saturday, March 28, is not the Lillian Heron who resides at 521 Woodruff Avenue, 
Arcadia. 

I am not and never have been a member of tlie Communist Party. 

A letter has also been received from a person who signs his name 
"Albert A." and then in parentheses "'Al" Lewis, who is director of 
athletics at the William S. Hart Union High School in Newhall, Calif. 
In his letter he states that it has been brought to his attention that 
during the course of the committee hearings and in the testimony of 
Friday, March 27, a Mr. Al Lewis, reported to be a teacher in the 
Los Angeles area, was named as being affiliated with those parties of 
a communistic nature. • 

In this letter he states that he is not the individual referred to; 
that he has not had anything to do with conununii-m, and tjiat lie 
would like, for the sake of his family and his friends and the school, 
to have his name cleared of any connection with the party so named. 

I may state something which has been said before in connection with 
these messages. These messages are being received as a result of the 
invitation that the chairman of the committee has given from time to 
time to permit the appearance of any person or organization as to 
whom there luis been any question raised regarding Comuntnist Party 
activities, to give them an opportunity to deny or explain it. 

This, of course, is a quick and easy method of accepting that invi- 
tation. 

The committee, of course, has not made any investigation of any 
of these matters which are the subject of these letters. 

Now, with ]-eference to an oversight on my part, a i)erson by the 
name of Paul Marion was mentioned in the course of tlie testimony 
of Mr. Dwight Hauser as a member of the Communist Party. Mr. 
Paul Marion luis testified before the committee and has fully cooper- 
ated with it and has testified that he withdrew from the Communist 
Party quite a period ago, and out of fairness to him I should have 
mentioned that fact when his name was mentioned in the course of 
the testimony by Mr. Dwight Hauser. He has reminded me in this 
telegram that I failed to do so. 

This is a telegram which reads as follows : 

The name Lon Brooks listed in Sunday's papers as a Communist Party mem- 
ber is some person other than Lon A. Brooks, a resident of Beverly Hills for 23 
years and a practieins lawyer in this community fov 32 years. It will be greatly 
appreciated if you will clarify my identity in this matter before your committee 
and the public. 

His address is ?>60 North Bedford Drive, Beverly Hills. 
That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. 

INIr. Jacksotst. One more matter. I have a long telegram here which 
I shall not read, but which deals with certain candidates for the board 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 687 

of education. In my statement of yesterday it will be recalled, I am 
sure, that no mention was made of any candidate for any school board 
position, and it is certainly not the function of the connnittee to enter 
into that matter. So far as I know, there is no reason to enter into 
the matter of candidates as distinguished from certain organizations. 
Here is a telegram from Burton Taylor, treasurer-secretary. Citi- 
zens Inquiry Committee, which states : 

Received many falls that Representative Jackson named our organization as 
one allegedly attempting to subvert oncoming municipal election. According to 
newspapers Jackson named groups which bear names like ours. Unchecking 
persons hastily formed erroneous judgments. For continued respect and pn stige 
of our group 'would appreciate committee's public announcement we are in no 
way connected with groups mentioned. 

On yesterday I did not mention the Citizens Inquiry Committee. 

Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Mr. Roy Erwin. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence yon are 
about to give to this subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Erwin. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ROY ERWIN 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr- Roy Erwin ? 

Mr. Erwin. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name, please? 

Mr. Erwin. E-r-w-i-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you accompanied by counsel ? 

Mr. Erwin. I am not. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are aware of the committee policy to permit 
and encourage every witness to have the benefit of counsel, if he so 
desires? 

Mr. Erwin. I am- 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, when and where were you born, Mr. Erwin? 

Mr. Erwin. I was born in Los Angeles July 1, 1923. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ? 

Mr. Erwin. Sound-effects man, free-lance actor, writer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what \our 
educational training has been, that is, what your formal educational 
training has been ? 

Mr. Erwin. I went to school in the Los Angeles city school system, 
through the elementary grades, and in high school here and in Palm 
Springs, and took extension courses at UCLA in 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. Could you give the committee, please, a general 
description of your employment since 1943 and the type of work that 
you were engaged in ? 

Mr. Erwin. W^ell, in 1943 I went to work as a sound-effects man 
for one of the networks, and continued in that job until January 31. 
1952. Since then I have been in the free-lance field and was out oi 
the city most of last year, 1952. 

Mr.' Tavenni:r. The committee, through the testimony of Mr. 
Hauser, learned yesterday that for a period of time you had been a 
member of a group of the Communist Party which was organized 
within the radio industry or within the radio field. Is that correct? 

31747— 53— pt. 3 6 



688 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Erwin. That is correct, Mr, Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. For how long a period of time were you a member 
of that group ? 

Mr. Ekwin. I entered the group late in 1945. I am not precisely 
sure of the date. I continued at that time for a period of 3 or 31/2 
months, something of that nature. At that time I was put on a so- 
called leave of absence, and then I reentered the group in 1947, the 
fall of 1947, and remained until the end of 1948 or the beginning 
of 1949. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you returned to membership in the Com- 
munist Party, or, rather, became active the second time in the party, 
was that on your own initiative or not ? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, actually it w^as on my own initiative, yes, but 
with the counsel of a duly constituted investigating agency of the 
United States Government. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think the best way to learn of your experience 
in the Communist Party is for you to begin with the first inception 
of your membership and tell the committee first the circumstances 
under which you became a Communist Party member. 

Mr. Erwin. Well, probably the first thing, in order not to cover 
too much area that has already been covered by other witnesses, this 
was in 1945 and I was recruited into the party by a person reveal- 
ing himself as a member of the party who gave me certain literature 
which I have here, which is the very literature which was handed to 
me. I would like to read just a brief bit here, which will save time, 
rather than my giving a description of it. 

This publication is called the Communist Political Association, by 
David Goldway. It bears a date, I believe, of 1945. Yes. 

It says — 

What does a Communist do? 

On the job, preferably a war job, works for all-out production for victory. 
Takes part in union meetings, working for labor unity and against discrimination. 

Goes to CPA Club meetings, usually twice a month — takes part in its activities. 

Goes to the movies. Liked Dragon Seed, Tomorrow the World, Fighting Lady. 

Reads the Daily Worker, the Worker, and occasional CPA pamphlets. 

Writes to his Congressman frequently for or against bills on vital issues. 

Buys war bonds and gives to war-relief funds. 

Gives blood to the Red Cross, too. 

When shopping, checks points and ceiling prices. Supports price control. 

Dinner at home. Romps with the kids. Listen to news broadcasts on the 
radio. 

This is just a general rundown. This is a general feeling of what 
the Communist Party or the Communist Political Association was at 
that time, and this was, as I say, in the late fall of 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. Matters such as you have alluded to were repre- 
sentations made by the Communist Party to assist it in recruiting dur- 
ing that period ? 

Mr. Erwin. That is true. As other witnesses have said, I was in- 
terested — of course, I was only 22 at the time, but I was interested 
in liberal education, fair employment, any legislation against dis- 
crimination, and any prevention of discrimination. I was appalled 
at seeing a meeting of the Gerald L. K. Smith group, and these peo- 
ple seemed to be fighting it on an actual plane. At least it was so 
represented to me at the time. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 689 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, as a result of what you understood at that 
time that the Communist Party stood for, did you become a member ? 

Mr. Erwin. I did, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenister. To what group of the Communist Party were you 
assigned when you became a member? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, it was called the radio branch, as I recall it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, will you tell us in your own words what your 
experience in that group was ? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, I went to the meeting that Mr. Hauser referred 
to yesterday. We very definitely passed in the night. I arrived late, 
having done a show, and arrived with the person who recruited me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlio was that person? 

Mr. Erwin. Nina Klowden, K-1-o-w-d-e-n. I believe we had done a 
show together, I am not sure, but, anyway, we were late, and Mr. 
Hauser was at that meeting. I was surprised to see him. I had worked 
with him also in radio shows before, and I recall a very peculiar 
thing he said to me. However, there were so many pecular things 
happening that evening, that it sort of blended in with the rest. 

As I entered I saw him enter, and he said, "I'm sorry to see you 
here," and that was the evening he left and that was a half-, three- 
quarters of an hour before the meeting ended. I never saw him at 
any subsequent meetings after that. 

As I say, it appeared peculiar at the moment. However, there were 
a lot of peculiar things happening. 

At that meeting they elected a term chairman, whereas, I was told 
at the meeting that prior they had been just appointing or electing the 
chairman for each meeting. That is, at one meeting they would elect 
a chairman for the subsequent meeting, and so forth. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the person elected chairman ? 

Mr. Erwin. Georgia Backus was elected at that time for whatever 
the prescribed term was. That changed also, I believe, later, and I 
was not allow^ed to vote on that because they decided that my vote 
would not be intelligent at that time since I had just entered the 
group, but I watched the election and very little else was accomplished 
at that time other than setting up the time for the next meeting. 

Mr. Doyle. How long had you been supporting yourself at your 
profession prior to the occasion on which they said you wouldn't give 
an intelligent vote ? 

Mr. Erwin. About 2 years. 

Mr. DoTLE. You were 22 or more ? 

Mr. Erwin. I was 22 ; yes. 

Then I went to a number of meetings after that. I wasn't too regu- 
lar because of the nature of my work. My time was scheduled, al- 
though it was erratically scheduled, as all network operation is. That 
was due to program exigencies. I wasn't able to attend all meetings. 
They seemed to understand that. 

The complexion of things changed or was very different than had 
been represented to me, and I was quite confused, to say the least, 
by what had been told me about the Communist Party, as to this sort 
01 thing that I have read here and what was actually happening. 

Also, there was at the time a vacancy for a souncl-effects man on 
the AFRA, the American Federation of Radio Artists, that is, the 
AFRA board, local board of directors. One of the members, I believe, 
had been moved to the national board, leaving a vacancy on the local 



690 COMJNIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

board. I was appointed to tluit board at that time and became quite 
interested in tlie conduct of the union, 

Mr. Tavennek. Were there any other members of this group of 
Communists, in this radio group of Communists, on that boards 

Mr. EuwiN. Georgia Backus at that time was on the board. 

Mr. Tavenivek. Do you remember what lier position on tiie board 
was? 

Mr. Erwin. I don't know that she held any official position. I 
wouldn't be absolutely positive of that, that is, other than just a regu- 
lar board member. 

So 1 was on the board later and I became elected to the board when 
the term of the person who vacated his position was up thereafter, 
and I was elected for a period of 3 years to the board as a sound-ef- 
fects member, on the board of the American Federation of liadio 
Artists. 

At that time I became quite interested in seeing certain improve- 
ments in the situation of sound effects men pertinent to AFRA itself. 
And also 1 was told to bring any of my union problems, definitely, to 
the party meetings and they would discuss them. 

1 did take some of those problems to party meetings and was quite 
disappointed, since there was a rather singidarly bourgeois attitude 
taken in the actor-writer group as to a sound effects man, and 1 was 
sloughed off, to my resentment. It was pretty much of a long battle, 
without anybody's support. And I became pretty disgusted in a little 
while. 

And also 1 learned more through texts that were suggested. There 
were no new members' classes at that time. They said they were going 
to organize them, that the group had been very lax. The group was to 
be organized and they were going to get down to business and there 
would be a new members' class and 1 would be expected to attend. 
And at the time being they suggested tests, and various individuals 
were told to help me out, namely, Nina Klowden, who had recruited 
nie, was to go over the Marxist theory and Lenin theory in general 
with me. 

In the reading of these texts I found more things that definitely 
convinced me this was not a group that had been represented, and it 
was a little frightening. 

Mr. Tavenaek. Do you have at this time any of the texts that were 
given you at that time ? 

Mr. Erwin. I do, Mr. Tavenner. I have one in particular, which 
1 have no intention of reading this whole hook to the committee, but 
I just — the introduction of the text here that was mainly- given me at 
that time. That is the most important text that Avas given me at 
that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the title? 

Mr. Erwin. The title is ''History of the Connnunist Party of the 
Soviet Union, Bolsheviks,"' and it is the short course. 

Mr. Doyle. May it ai)pear clearly what time it was that you refer 
to, when you say ''at that time," what year was it? 

Mr. Erwin. This was in 1U45 or possibly just at the turn of the year. 

By this time it might have, been at the beginning of 1946. 

Mr. Doyle. This was given you by whom? 

JNIr. Erwin. 1 bought it, actually, at a party meeting, but I was told 
that this 



COIVOIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 691 

Mr. Doyle. How much did you pay for it? 

Mr. EinviN. I think I paid about $3.50 for it. I don't remember 
precisely, but I was told this was a very important text and I should 
definitely study this carefully. 

Mr. DoTLE. Who is the author of it? 

Mr. Erwin. There isn't a single author. I will read from the title 
page. The "History of the Comnumist Party of the Soviet Union, 
Bolsheviks, Short Course. Edited by a Commission of the Central 
Conunittee of the C. P. S. U. (B)." And "Authorized by Central 
Committee of the C. P. S. U. (B.). International Publishers, New 
York." The copyright date is 1939. 

Mr. Tavenner. International Publishers of New York was a Com- 
munist press? 

Mr. Erwin. So I understood. I don't know. 

Mr. DoTLE. Is that an American copyright? 

Mr. Erwin. I just says "copyright." It says, "Printed in the 
U. S. A." But the quotation from the introduction, which I think 
pretty well crystallizes the over-all character of the book, and my 
reasons for being a little aghast at the thing, describes what this book 
does for the Communist. 

The study of the history of the C. P. S. U. (B.), the history of the struggle 
of our party against all enemies of Marxism-Leninism, against all enemies of 
the working people, helps us to master bolshevism and sharpens our political 
vigilance. 

The study of the heroic history of the Bolshevik Party arms us with a knowl- 
edge of the laws of social development and of the political struggle, with a 
knowledge of the motive forces of revolution. 

; The study of the history of the C. P. S. U. (B.) strengthens our certainty 
of the ultimate victory of the great cause of the party of Lenin-Stalin, the 
victory of communism throughout the world. 

This book sets forth briefly the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet 
Union ( Bolsheviks ) . 

Mr. DoYi_,E. How many pages in that book, please? 

Mr. ERwaN. I will check it for sure. 365. 

Mr. Doyle. Is it a bound volume ? 

Mr. Erwin. Yes; a cloth-bound volume. It is the short course, 
incidentally. 

Mr. Tavenner. T^Hiat was the effect of that type of doctrine being 
sponsored by the Communist Party, when you had such conflicting 
representations made to you when you joined the party? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, the first, of course, was quite utter confusion, be- 
cause the people I had known, several of the people whom I now 
met in the party for some time, and I wondered if they were as con- 
fused as I or if they were actually sinister characters, or just exactly 
what it was. But my main reaction at that time was, "Get out and 
stay away from them," which I did. 

Luckily, coincident with it, my work was keeping me on a night 
shift, mainly, which prevented my attending meetings, and I had 
been told ancl heard the reference made that if you once were con- 
nected with the party and got out, that not either side would triist 
you and your name would be mud in general everywhere. And that 
it was a very bad move, to get in and get out again. 

So I just let it go at that and was told finally, in rather patronizing 
terms, I was on a leave of absence and at such time as my schedule 
changed they would expect me back. 



692 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Under such representations it made it very difficult 
for a person to make the decision to get out ? 

Mr. Erwin. It made it verj^ difficult, yes ; very difficult, particularly 
someone just starting in the business, so to speak. 

Mr. Tavenner. Having gotten into it, did you feel that the fact 
that you had gotten into it would be used against you in your busi- 
ness, if 3^ou tried to get out ? 

Mr. Erwin. That was the inference that I drew. 

Mr. Doyle. Where did you draw that inference from ? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, from the general statement, for instance, a very 
definite statement against Mr. Dwight Hauser in meetings after he 
no longer appeared. This was definitely considered to be a danger- 
ous pei-son and that he was not to be considered as a very trustworthy 
man in anything after that. 

Then in other references to other people whom I didn't even know 
at the time, who had gotten in and gotten out, that I heard that the 
consequences were rather dire on this sort of a move. I was not per- 
sonally threatened, but the inference was quite clear. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, you are telling me that the inference 
was that such persons as who had gotten in and then gotten out were 
more or less blacklisted? 

Mr. Erwin, I would say that that could be the conclusion drawn. 

Mr. Doyle. That is the conclusion you drew ? 

Mr. Erwin. Yes ; that is the conclusion I came to myself. 

Mr. Doyle. You mean they were blacklisted by the Communist 
Party, from which they had withdrawn? 

Mr. Erwin. That is right. And subsequently I have heard of a 
nimiber of cases where they were blacklisted in general by even such 
tactics as spreading the word around the persons who had gotten out 
were Communists and they were blacklisted among those that had 

Mr. Doyle. Let me see if I understand. They were blacklisted by 
the Communists themselves who set forth propaganda that these peo- 
ple they were blacklisting were Communists ? 

Mr. Erwin. They would even go to that extent, I had heard, be- 
cause I did know that at that time there was some, even some rum- 
blings around the industry that Dwight Hauser was a Conmiunist 
and that had never been said before he got out of the party. 

Mr. Doyle. That knowledge of blacklisting, naturally, created a 
fear you might be blacklisted in your endeavor to earn an honest liveli- 
hood ? 

Mr. Erwin. That is true, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Tavenner. After learning of that attitude on the part of the 
Communist Party toward persons who had left the Communist Party, 
did you welcome the opportunity to be in a state of leave from the 
party ? 

Mr. Erwin. I welcomed it very heartily, and, in fact, asked I be 
kept on a night schedule so there would be no excuse for them getting 
me back. 

Mr. Doyle. You mean you deliberately asked your employer to be 
kept on a night scliedule so you wouldn't be expected to attend the 
Communist cell meetings? 

Mr. Erwin. I didn't tell my employer my reasons. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 693 

Mr. Tavennek. How long did you remain on leave from the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Erwin. Until the fall of 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. What occurred at that time ? 

Mr. Erwin. At that time, in the late summer of 1947, in a conversa- 
tion with a close friend, I revealed the fact I had been in the Com- 
munist Party and the circumstances of my extended leave of absence, 
at which time he asked me if I might be interested in giving the in- 
formation or in aiding the Government in any way with the possible 
knowledge and information that I had, or would I be willing, even 
possibly to going back into the Communist Party for this organiza- 
tion, and I said I would. 

This man, incidentally, was not an agent of the Government himself. 
I just understood that he would make some sort of contact and he 
asked me if I would be willing to do tliis. 

Subsequently, I was contacted by a man from the Government, 
who then outlined the fact that anything I did was strictly of my 
own volition, the Government held out no promises of any particular 
privileges or anything else, and I was perfectly free to refuse to do 
so and to let it go at that. 

I had solicited the contact by the agent myself and — all I am getting 
at is that they w^ere extremely fair, extremely clear in their repre- 
sentation to me. At that time I said that I certainly understood 
it, and I considered the Communist Party a definite threat to this 
country in what little I had learned at that time through texts such 
as this and other representations in party meetings, and so on, in which 
the word "revolution" appeared a great deal. 

I must say this was pointed out to the cultural group in general 
and our group in particular, that this did not necessarily mean armed 
revolt; that this shouldn't be taken that way, but still, nonetheless, 
the revolution was still uppermost in there, and there were sufficient 
vagaries there that it frightened me even all the more. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a result of your conference with an agent of the 
Government, what did you do ? 

Mr. Erwin. I reentered the party. By this time my schedule had 
changed and reentered the party again, contacting Mr. Klowclen and 
reentered the radio branch of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what was your principal purpose in reenter- 
ing the party ? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, of course, my principal purpose was in getting 
as much information as possible about the radio group. In particu- 
lar, for the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which is the agency 
named, and also of doing as much^ — this was decided in conversations 
with my contact with the FBI, of getting as much information on the 
party line, what the cultural group was doing. 

Perhaps I should right now state what the purpose, the considered 
purpose of the cultural group is. It is distinctly different within the 
party from the rank and file workers' groups, in that we were con- 
sidered to be the sort of commissioned officers of the group. I sup- 
pose that term was never used, certainly, but helping to make policy 
and to interpret policy. The talent in general, then, would be used 
for propaganda and agitation at all times, particularly, of course, of 
revolutionary circumstance. 



694 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. DoYLi3. Mr. Chairman, counsel, the fact this witness keeps on 
repeating and emphasizing tliat the revolution was uppermost, and 
such language, and he said the word "revolution" appeared a great 
deal in the text, I think it falls upon me to again call attention to the 
fact that this is exactly what the United States Congress declared in 
Public Law 831, which I have read a short portion of 2 or 3 times. 

I think it is appropriate for me to just read this one paragraph 
again. This, you will recall, is a declaration by the United States 
Congress in Public Law 831, and I read section 2 : 

As a result of evidence adduced before the various committees of tiie Senate 
and House of Representatives, the Congress hereby tinds that : 

There exists a workl Communist movement wliich, in its origins, its develop- 
ment, and its present practice, is a worldwide revolutionary movement whose 
purpose it is, by treachery, deceit, infiltration into other groups (governmental 
and otherwise), espionage, sabotage, terrorism, and any other means deemed 
necessary, to establish a Communist totalitarian dictatorship in the countries 
throughout the world through the medium of a worldwide Communist organi- 
zation. 

That is all of that declaration I will read. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. I would be very happy for you to explain what you 
understood about tlie revolutionary teachings within the party as 
you observed tliem. 

Mr. Erwin. Well, I probably had better go into a little bit of my 
history, of how I came in contact with this information. 

Sliortly after my reentr}^ into the party under the circumstances' 
outlined, I was assigned to a new members' class, which was by this 
time Avell organized. In this class, we were given a solid basis in 
Marxism. One of the main texts again was the history of the CPSU. 

Another was Socialism, "\V1iat Is in It for You? And that was by 
A. B. Maffil. I also have that pamphlet, if you would like it. 

Value, Price, and Profit, an excerpt, naturally, from Marx. 

On the Theory of Marxism, with excerpts from Marx, Engels, 
Lenin, and Stalin. 

A brief resume of the Constitution of the LT. S. S. R. 

And that was about the sum total of actual text used in this par- 
ticular new members' class. Those weren't taken in their entirety. 
These were assignments as much as in any class with a text. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to your time, that was in 1047. 

Mr. Erwin. Yes; that is true, this is 1947. We were then taught a 
little of the basis of Marx, but there was much more stress, I noticed 
now, on the revolution itself; again that word appears. And on the 
methods of studying the works of Stalin and Lenin on revolution. 
Although there was no indication that anyone was going to start 
throwing bombs at any time, the emphasis was on a clear dialectical 
approach to world problems. 

('urrent events were brought in and analyzed from a Marxist view- 
point. And at that time the Berlin crisis was on, the airlift at that 
time was going on, I believe, and the analysis of problems was made 
overall at that time from a JNIarist viewpoint, and keeping abreast 
with the current events. And at that time several new members 
asked the question also of how it so happened if the Communist Party 
which had been represented to us. the Communist Party of the U. S. A. 
was not taking its cue from the Moscow, how did it happen that every- 
thing Russia did, according to this analysis, was explained away in 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE LOS ANGELES AREA 695 

one foi'iii or jinother, or everytliiiio this country did was deemed pretty 
much wrong — not everything, but at least most things. 

Where there was a definite choice between Russia and the United 
States, that Russia seemed to come out on top from a dialectic stand- 
point. This was explained by the so-called fact that any students 
of Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin, et al., viewing a particular 
set of contradictions or circumstances would come to the same con- 
clusion. And, in fact, I made a rather unpopular statement at that 
time in the new members' class, that if tliat was the case, coukl Tito 
be considered a poor student of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, et al., 
which he obviously did not, and he didn't seem to he going along 
with the Cominform at tliat time. There were certain other contra- 
dictions, as I say, with statements like this being rather unpopular 
and being discouraged. 

Mr. Doyle. Were any of those people that you just named American 
authors or authorities? 
Mr. Erwin. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Doyle. These o or 4 Marx and Lenin 

Mr. Erwin. I will have to refer to that. I believe A. B. Magil 
is American, I am quite sure. The others are not. A, B. Magil I be- 
lieve is an American. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you have any knowledge of any occasion when 
the Communists, as you knew them during your association with 
them, departed in any way from the Soviet foreign policy? 
Mr. Erwin. I remember no specific instance. 

Mr. Jackson. In the event of war, do you think that the sympa- 
thies of an American Communist w^ould be with this country or the 
Soviet Union ? 

Mr, Erwin. Oh, I believe the hierarchy and the overall policy would 
definitely be with the Soviets, unless serious change, a complete change, 
would occur. I am sure the Communist Party line would. As to offi- 
cials and members and ex-members of the Communist Party, I couldn't 
venture to say. 

Mr. Doyle. When you say the Communist Party you refer to the 
Communist Party in the United States ? 

ISIr. Erwin. I do. By this I do not necessarily mean the rank and 
file cell level member. I believe the people I came in contact with, 
there are practically none of those that I think would actually take 
up arms against the United States, in the event of a war with the So- 
viet Union. I think a number of them would be abhorrent to any 
such action. 

As to the Communist Party official line, I have little doubt their 
sympathies would definitely lie. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, the Communist Party leadership in 
the United States, allegedly underground, would, in your judgment, 
follow the interests of Soviet Russia as counterdistinctive to the 
best interests of the United States. 

Mr. Erwin. I think that is basically actually right, because the 
Communist Party is only for convenience sake broken down into the 
Communist Party of various countries, because they say the problems 
naturally are different in different countries, yes. 

_ But the aim of the Communist Party in general, overall, the basic 
aim IS for world communism, as I quoted from the History of the 
Communist Party of the Soviet Union. 



696 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Doyle. And as I quoted from Public Law 831. 

Mr. Erwin. Yes. 

Mr. D0Y1.E. You would agree that declaration by the United States 
Congress is founded from fact, from your experience ? 

Mr. Erwin. It is founded in the literature of the Communist 
Party, which is tantamount to being founded in fact, I certainly be- 
lieve. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this study group which you attended made up 
solely of members from the radio cell of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Erwin. No, it was not. In fact, I do not believe there was 
any other member from my particular group at that time. I am not 
sure there was anyone from any other radio group in this particular 
group. They were all from cultural, which might mean anything, 
any particular category of the cultural section. 

It was not revealed to me as to who the people were. In fact, by 
this time, when I got back, only first names were being used. A 
number of the people I came in contact with I did not even get names 
of from such contacts as this. The short, ephemeral contacts in 
study groups. 

Mr. Tavenner. You did not learn the true identification of the 
persons in this particular study group you attended ? 

Mr. Erwin. No. I learned the identity of probably 2 or 3 of them, 
from just brushes, going to and from the group, and so on, and being 
with them for a period of 3 or 4 weeks or possibly more ; I think it was 
6 weeks. 

But I have never seen any of them since. At that time any names I 
did get were turned over to the FBI. Just to outline, incidentally, 
while I may seem quite vague on certain names and addresses and 
so forth, with my contact it was decided that the best tactics for me, 
in order to avoid exposure and also to keep things on the best plane 
as possible, that I should become as good a Communist as possible. A 
good Communist doesn't ask anybody, any comrade's name or ques- 
tion it, or remember anything. He doesn't use the telephone unless 
it is absolutely necessary, and then couches his terms in the vaguest 
terms as to a social function, or something of that sort. 

Anything I was doing that I did learn, I wrote in a report and got 
rid of it I'ight away, without keeping any list or carbon or anything 
of that sort for myself. I never saw any of those things again myself. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend meetings, radio group meetings 
of tlie Communist Party at the time you were attending the school? 

Mr. Erwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavi<:nner. How many Communist Party meetings were you 
required to attend ? 

Mr. Erwin. Actually our branch meetings or group meetings of 
the radio group, as a whole, were generally every other week. A few 
times, like surrounding the 44th convention of the Communist Party, 
they were stepped up to a meeting every week. I was also then at- 
tending at this time a new members' class. 

This was weekly, which meant two meetings a week, some weeks, 
plus also there was a faction meeting which was then set up of people 
in radio directly who were on the cell level who were to make an 
analysis of the overall picture of radio, on a national basis this way, 
and it was to be carried further into a more microscopic analysis of 
radio on the local scene directly, this analj-sis then being used to plan 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 697 

means of combating antiparty propaganda, tactics, and so forth, and 
to supplant them with whatever propaganda, agitation, or influence 
that the party then could exert through its members connected with 
the industry. 

Mr. Tavenner. This was an analysis made of the radio work for 
that purpose? 

Mr. Erwin. Yes, that is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who composed the group that were assigned the 
job of making this analysis? 

Mr. Erwin. Nina Klowden was in it, Lynn Whitney. 

Mr. Tavenner. Spell the name, please. 

Mr. Erwin. L-y-n-n Whitney, W-h-i-t-n-e-y. Herman Waldreen, 
W-a-1-d-r-e-e-n, I'believe. He was also known to me later as Herman 
Waldman, W-a-1-d-m-a-n, and later Imown as David Wolfe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Spell the Wolfe, please. 

Mr. Erwin. I believe it is W-o-l-f-e. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give further identifying information re- 
garding that individual ? 

Mr. Erwin. He was a radio actor in the industry. That about sums 
it up, I believe. That is all I knew that he did. I believe he has been 
mentioned before this committee before in prior sessions. 

There were a couple of other people whom I don't recall now by 
name. It would be speculation on my part to further try to remember 
who was directly at these meetings, the fraction for the analysis of 
radio. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were all of these persons members of the radio unit 
of the Communist Party of which you were a member? 

Mr. Erwin. Yes; they were. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did that particular group function in the 
capacity you have described ? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, I imagine it was over a period of 3 or 4 months. 

Mr. Tavenner. During what year? 

Mr. Erwin. 'this would have been in 1948 by this time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall any specific matters that came 
out of the work of that group ? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, the matters that came out were, of course, radio, 
to a microscopic degree. P^r instance, I have a foundation in elec- 
tronics and the technical end of radio myself, so I was given one of 
the early lectures to compose and give for the group, generally an- 
alyzing the method of propagation of radio and differentiating the 
techniques of AM or amplitude modulation and FM or frequency 
modulation radio which was just at that time when franchises were 
being gi-anted by the Federal Communications Commission for FM 
channels in this local area, and it was explained to me that the 
reason this general discussion of the technical matter was mainly done 
was so that the members would generally know what the difference 
was between the two, and there was some talk of possibly the party or a 
front organization sponsored by the party gaining one of these fran- 
chises and operating one of the FM stations. That never happened, 
I am sure, but there was talk about it. I don't know how far it 
actually ever got. 

Mr. Jackson. When you reach a good point to break, we will take a 
short recess. 



698 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AEEA 

Mr. T.WENNER. I believe I have just one more question, and then 
it would be a <i;ood time for a break. 

You state that it was discussed within the party the advantage 
that would be gained from obtaining a license in the name of a front 
organization for a radio station ? 

^Ir. Erwix. Yes. 

Mr. Tavennek. Will you describe a little more clearly, please, what 
was the purpose that the Communist Party desired to accomplish by 
having a radio station? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, I believe the purpose, of course, is quite self- 
evident. It is the purpose of the Communist Party in anything it does, 
in that it would be to propagandize and agitate, to spread as much 
confusion as possible. It is a basic Marxist theory, incidentally, of 
confusing issues — not a Marxist theory, I shouldn't say — a Leninist 
tactic of using the process of causing as much qualitative agitation and 
disturbance, in other words, pointing up a contradiction or conflict 
to its highest peak in order to cause a qualitative change. That is a 
rather rough quote, but do I make myself clear? 

Mr. Jackson. In other words, planned confusion? 

Mr. Erwin. That's right, to cause sufficient confusion to force 
qualitative change. This is a revolutionary tactic. For instance, by 
possibly a labor disturbance, which at its outset is a matter of a 
certain amount of disagreement between labor and management, the 
desirable tactic there is to cause this minor conflict to be drawn to its 
highest degree so that the maximum advantage can be gained to jilace 
the management in the position of being the ogre, if possible, and 
labor in the position of being the downtrodden, in order to cause, by 
enough of the circumstances, to have labor in general revolt. 

Mr. Jackson. Isn't it also a part of Communist technique to carry 
confusion and obstruction into the courtrooms of the nations and into 
the hearing rooms ? 

Mr. Erwin. Yes. very definitely. In fact, I observed exactly that 
tactic yesterday, and I have observed it in all operations where I 
believe the Communist Party had close contact of causing the maxi- 
mum confusion. 

Mr. Doyle. You said you observed it yesterday. Where did you 
obsei've it yesterday ? 

Mr. Erwin. I was sitting over behind Mr. Tavenner. 

]Mr. DoTLE. In this hearing room where you now are? 

Mr. Erwin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. If you were in the hearing room, you observed 
planned confusion. 

Mr. Erwin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. This is a convenient place. 

Mr. Jackson. The committee will take a break until 11 : 15. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 05 a. m., a recess was taken until 11 : 20 a. m.) 

Mr. Jackson. The committee will be in order. 

Mr. Tavenner. IMr. Erwin, you were telling the committee of the 
results of the analyses made by the committee that you described as a 
committee set up for the purpose of analyzing what was being done 
in the country in radio. 

Mr. Erwin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Now, what other results arose from that analysis? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, to answer your question in part, at any rate, I 
can't say that the results were actually achieved. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 699 

This is another matter which touches basically on procedure within 
the Communist Party. We were assigned as a fraction to make an 
analysis, period. We were not to draw any further conclusions other 
than those that were drawn right at that time as an analysis, and then 
present those to the section which, heaven knows where they went 
from there, and to eventually be returned to us with instructions for 
further action, or possibly never to be returned to us or to be turned 
over to another group for further analysis and study. 

So all I can say is what these various analyses were rather than 
any results that arose from them. 

Mr. Tavennek. All right. 

Mr. Erwin. For instance, just to bring out points that were touched 
on, one of the points that tlie Communists definitely decried was the 
tendency that was just then beginning of commercial messages, com- 
monly called commercials, being given by stars. Up until this time of 
around 1948, generally the commercials were given by announcers as 
a separate part of a radio show, the commercial message was, and the 
show was distinct from it, and then this incorporation of cemmercials 
by stars was considered to be a very, very bad step from the Communist 
standpoint, in that it did two things. 

For one thing, it spread the commercial message over a broader 
space, which of course, the more they could keep down any conmiercials 
the better they liked it. 

Secondarily, it amounted, in effect, to a star's endorsement of the 
system under which the country operated from the analysis made. In 
that they reasoned thusly : A star commands a great deal of public 
attention and respect; otherwise, he would not be a star. So that 
any endorsement made by a star would command a great deal of public 
attention and sway considerable opinion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then, if I understand you correctly, it was advo- 
cated that a star should not engage in any way in connection with 
the commercial announcement of the program, because to do so meant 
that that star was advocating the capitalist system of government; 
is that correct ? 

Mr. ERWiisr. In effect, that was the analysis made. There was a 
further analysis then made of soap opera, which is even a little more 
obscure, in which the analysis there was that soap opera per se. No. 1, 
was escapist material; No. 2, that the underlying propaganda line of 
the capitalist system contained in the soap opera was furthering the 
system of double standard in the United States, that is, that woman 
had her distinct and particular place and man had his distinct and 
particular place and never the twain shall meet. 

Further analysis — or did you want to question me further on that? 
That may be rather vague. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, it is a little vague to me, but the purpose, as I 
understand, is that the Communist Party was endeavoring by that 
analysis to promote its own plan of things ? 

Mr. Erwin. Very definitely, the plan being, of course, to break down 
the double standard; in appearance, that is, to break down the double 
standard. The main thing was to make women as effective revolu- 
tionary factors or workers as man, actually, to break down in every 
way the double standard between men and women. .That is not neces- 
sarily in many cases and in many instances an undesirable aim. I am 



700 COMMUNIST ACTWITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

pointin<j it out mainly as a Communist tactic in itself, the reasons 
behind their desiring to break clown the double standard. 

The further analysis that went in, just broadly, of radio generally 
was that it was filled then, in the main, other than soap opera itself, 
with escapist material such as the mystery show, the innocuous dra- 
matic and quiz shoAvs and so on, which in effect lulled the people to 
sleep and padded u}) their ears with enough escapist cotton to keep 
them from hearing any of the real issues ripe in the world at the time, 
and this was then conveniently served up with a broad sauce of capi- 
talist propaganda and commercial messages. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you at this time give us any further results of 
the work of that committee ? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, there were a couple of other things. For instance, 
just specific instances that came up : For instance, at that time — I have 
forgotten now who made the criticism, whether it was some member 
of the Government or some independent investigating group or what- 
ever — there was talk of a so-called The Theater Guild On the Air 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of it ? 

Mr. Erwin. The Theater Guild On the Air, a New York show, 
sponsored by the United States Steel Corp. 

The Communists were quite delighted with some investigating 
group that came up with a rather sensational news story about the 
fact that there was evidence or indication that this was a Red show. 

Well, this is just the type of thing that Communists Avould very much 
like to see happen, confusion of a company of the stature of the United 
States Steel Corp. being tied in in any way with the Communist 
Party would add beautifully to the confusion, and investigations of 
any group of this sort, that is that are given a broad and vague 
terminology as possibly Red or Red-infiltrated which can tie large 
American industries and so on with Communist fronts serves to 
heighten the confusion. 

Mr. Taah^nner. How long did that group function ? 

Mr. Erwin. I would say, and it is only a broad guess, about 4 months. 

Mr. Ta\t<:nner. During this period of time was there any required 
reading for the Communist Party members ? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, I don't know, but not in reference to radio 
particularly, not with this fraction. Of course, you were required to 
read — for instance, you were required to read "PW" — you were all but 
commanded to read the People's World — which is a San Francisco 
publication. 

You were also admonished definitely to read at least a number of 
copies of Masses and Mainstream. That is a New Century montWy 
publication — also published by New Century, or printed by New 
Century, I should say. I believe it is published by Masses and Main- 
stream itself. 

Political Affairs was another monthly magazine that was required 
reading, and certain articles w^ere pointed out of special interest and 
of special importance to the cultural section and to the radio branch 
also. 

Then Science and Society was another. That is a quarterly, which 
was another magazine. 

These are general and running publications that Avere at least in 
part required reading. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 701 

Then there were books, one tliat was quite popular at that time, 
Ten CLassics of Marxism, of which I have a copy here in my briefcase, 
if you would like to see it, which had a number of Marxist classics. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like for you to put all of that Communist 
Party material on the table in front of you so that the committee mem- 
bers may see it and examine it if they like. 

Mr. Erwin. Very well. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you read into the record the title of the ma- 
terial you present? 

Mr. Erwin. Yes. Possibly I better read them from these docu- 
ments. A couple of these were particularly for the cultural section, 
three of these here in particular. 

This one, Studies in a Dyin^- Culture, by Christopher Caudwell, 
was printed in London by John Layne, The Bodley Head Literature. 
This is the second publication, Literature of the Graveyard, which 
was written by Eoo;er Garaudy, and he is a member, or was at that 
time a member of the French National Assembly, and in this par- 
ticular work is an analysis and criticism, and in fact, condemnation 
of the works of Jean Paul Sartre, Frangois Mauriac, Andre Malraux, 
and Arthur Koestler. 

Another publication that was considered very valuable at that time 
was Culture in a Changino; World; a Marxist Approach, by V. J. 
Jerome. That is published by New Century. 

I just previously mentioned Socialism; What's In It For You? by 
A. B. Magil, also published by New Century ; On Soviet Music, which 
I should like to touch on a little later, that w\as published in the inter- 
est of public information, by American-Russian Institute. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, is that the publication that was referred 
to by the witness Mrs. Sylvia Richards? 

Mr. Erwin. I believe it was. I believe it is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that what she said was particularly responsible 
for her leaving the Communist. Party? 

Mr. Erwin. Yes; I believe this is the publication. If it is not, it 
was one that is very similar. There have been others of the same 

This is another one previously mentioned. From the Little Lenin 
Library, volume XXXI, On the Theory of Marxism, by Karl Marx, 
Frederick Engels, V. I. Lenin, and Joseph Stalin. I shouldn't say it 
is by them. There are excerpts of their works in this particular vol- 
ume. 

Then again, previously mentioned, an excerpt really from Das 
Kapital, and Value, Price and Profit, by Karl Marx. This was re- 
quired reading, definitely. 

Another generally popular work at that time — I don't remember its 
being required reading, but there was much discussion about it — is a 
pamphlet entitled, "The New York Herald Tribune's Twenty-Three 
Questions About the Communist Party Answered by William Z. 
Foster." 

Another pamphlet by Maurice Thorez, What Next In France. It 
is a New Century pamphlet, too. Twenty-Three Questions is also a 
New Century. 

I believe this actually was required reading at the time: Wliat's 
Behind The Berlin Crisis, by Joseph Clark, published again by New 
Century. 



702 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Then the other two that I had, which were some of my material 
from 1945, at the time that I was recruited, A Talk About the Com- 
munist Party, by Earl Browder. This is dated 1943. The ))amphlet 
actually is published bv Workers" Library Publishers, New York. 

Another pamphlet. The Communist Party of the USA, Its History, 
Role and Orjranization, by Earl Browder, published again by the 
AVorkers' Library Publishers, Inc., New York, 

rhis last volume, of which various articles were required reading of 
at ditl'erent times, I just recently referred to it, 10 classes of Marxism, 
the quoted authors are Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, V. I. Lenin, and 
Josef Stalin. And there proceeds a numbar of Marxist classics, the 
10 Marxist classics, and among them the Communist INIanifesto, and 
Value, Price, and Profit previously named, et cetera. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you have testified about the two periods when 
you were a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Erw^in. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1945, when you were a member for about 3 or 31/2 
months, and then the period of 1947 and 1948. 

ISIr. Erwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you were a member, you have also testified 
about the Communist Party instruction group, which was a different 
group from the radio group of the Communist Party of which you 
were a member. 

]\Ir. Erwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you tell us, tell the committee, as well as 
you can, who were the members of these various groups? Give us 
the names of the persons you know of, of your own knowledge, who 
were members of the Communist Party and endeavor to fix them 
witli one or another of the three groups that I have mentioned. 

Mr. Erwin. I shall. This first group is the group of the 1945 
period. 

Mr. Ta\enner. May I interrupt you there a moment ? 

Mr. Erwin. Certainly. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you have in mind the name of a person, who was 
known by you to have left the Communist Party, I would like you to 
state that. 

Mr. Erwin. I certainly shall. This is the 1945 period of which I 
speak first. The ]:)erson who recruited me and who was a member of 
that grou]), Nina Klowdeu, and Georgia Backus, I am not sure of the 
spelling; B-a-c-k-u-s, I believe. Her husband I knew as Hy Alexan- 
der. It is H-y, I su])pose, and the common sDelling for Alexander. 

Sam Moore, who was a writer. Dwight Hauser, who was men- 
tioned yesterday. And, as I say, I passed him going out the door, so 
my mutual party relationslii[) with Dwight was very short. 

Lynn AVhitney, previously spelled. Paul McVey. M-c-V-e-y, and 
his wife, whose name I do not know. 

Bert, B-e-r-t, Cooper, C-o-o-p-e-r. 

Pauliue Ho])kins and Owen Vinson. 

Now, there Avere others, definitely, but I at that time was working 
in a network, so there were some peo])le who were there whom I did 
not know by name and nevei- actually found out. 

There were several other people at these early meetings whose names 
I never did know actually, never actually came in contact with them 
again. 



COMjVIUNIST activities in the LOS ANGELES AREA 703 

Mr. Tavenneii. I would like to interrupt you a moment ut that 
point. 

]\lr. Erwin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Earlier this morninoj a message was received from 
a person by the name of Pauline E. Hopkins of 19561/2 Echo Park 
Avenue, the name of Pauline Hopkins has been mentioned several 
times during the course of the testimony during the past week. 

She has stated to the committee that she was not the person men- 
tioned in that testimony, and as you have just mentioned the name of 
Pauline Hopkins I thought I should make that known. 

Mr. Erwin. Yes. This Pauline Hopkins, too, was the wife of 
Owen Vinson at that time. Now, to go to the 194:7 period, again 
Nina Klowden, Sam Moore, who was not in my group, but appeared 
before my group, the radio group, for some discussions. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Can you explain that a little more fully? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, for instance, on writers' problems, something of 
the sort, and where the writers' group — some other group that was not 
divulged of what it was, and I assumed it to be a writers' group — had 
come to some broad conclusion possibly touching on the whole radio 
industry, or wanted our group to analyze, say, from the actor's stand- 
point, some particular problem that had come up. 

So he a couple of times addressed our group about particular prob- 
lems or information. Again Lynn Whitney. Again Paul McVey 
and his wife, and Waldreen, Herman Waldman, and David Wolfe, 
the same name, and Ben Pollin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell it, please ? 

Mr. Erwin. B-e-n; I imagine standing for Benjamin. P-o-l-l-i-n. 

A Jack Robinson. And I would like to interject, if I may, a very 
clear differentiation between two Jack Robinsons, since this Jack 
Robinson whom I speak was at that time a writer. I don't know 
where he is now. He is a distinctly different person than one at the 
time known as Jack Robinson, who worked in the National Broad- 
casting Company sound effects department and has since become a 
writer-director in radio and is entirely a different person, now known 
as John Robinson, and currently working in the industry. 

People have associated myself and this John Robinson together. 
Also, he definitely has never had anything to do with the Communist 
Party, I am quite sure. 

To go on, Mary Robinson, who was this previously mentioned John 
Robinson's wife. 

Then we were addressed by — both in the group and in new mem- 
bers' class and Marxist study groups conducted at other times and 
other places, and I saw these three I am about to mention at all of 
these places at one time or another, and understood them to be dig- 
nitaries of some sort, or at least on a higher echelon than our branch 
group ; John Rapf , Harry Carlyle ; I have it C-a-r-1-y-l-e. I am not 
at all positive of that spelling, because I never saw the name actually 
in print. It is only phonetically that I spell it. 

Mr. Jackson. What was his occupation, if you know ? 

Mr. Erwin. I do not know what his occupation was. He lectured 
us on secondary class in Marxism. I do not know what he did. I 
understood he came originally from Australia. That is about the 
only other identifying 

31747— 53— pt. a 7 



704 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

Mr. Jackson, How old a man would he have been at that time ? 

Mr. Erwin. I would say he was in his fifties ; very articulate, very 
well-founded Marxist, and seemed to have an excellent background in 
Marxism, and also a decent academic background of some sort. 

J\Ir. Tavenner. The point is you are not certain of the spelling of 
his last name ? 

Mr. Erwin. No, I am not. As I say, I never actually saw it written. 
It might have been 1-y-s-l-e, as an alternate spelling. 

Karen Morley, M-o-r-l-e-y. I understood she was a functionary 
of some sort with the cultural section on the higher echelon, as was 
Harry Carlyle, and I understood that John Kapf was from the section 
or the county. 

Those are about all the names I can be dead certain of, which is 
naturally the only way I would want to give any names. 

As I say, there were a number of others, and I have given names in 
previous reports, which I have subsequently forgotten for the reasons 
outlined. 

Mr. TA'vrENNER. Can you recall the names of any higher function- 
aries of the Communist Party who addressed your meetings, other 
than those you have already told us about? 

Mr. Erwin. These are the only three, I believe, who ever did ad- 
dress us ; at least, that were revealed as functionaries of the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. You indicated in the earlier part of your testimony 
that you were elected to lill a vacancy on the board of AFRA. 

Mr. Erwin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I ascertained from you another member of your 
group was also a member of the board, and that person was named 
Georgia Backus. 

Mr. Erwin. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state whether or not the Communist 
Party, through the members of that board, that is, through Georgia 
Backus and yourself, were influencing the conduct of the affairs of 
AFRA, as members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Erwin. I have little doubt that they had some influence. At 
that time, as far as that goes, at any time the actual conduct of 
AFRA, I don't believe there were any issues that could be stated 
to be distinctly Communist, which were promoted by any Communist 
members of the board of AFRA. So it would be difficult to say just 
how extensive the influence was. 

I do say this, in general, about any active Communist, that if he 
is in any group or governing body of any sort, he will exercise influ- 
ence of an extensive nature, because I don't believe that there is any- 
one so active as an active Communist. 

As to my own appointment to the board — and this is necessarily 
prefaced with a statement that it is pure conjecture on my part — I 
doubt I would have been elected to the board of AFRA or appointed 
as originally started and subsequently elected at a later date, had 
I not been a member of the Communist Party. I doubt my name 
would have come before the board. I had only been a sound man 
for some 2 years and there were a lot of men with much more experi- 
ence in the various other networks and other sound departments, 
who from sheer observation would probably have been far better 
suited than myself. 

Also, I was rather young at the time, too. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 705 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any instance, to your knowledge, where 
your Communist Party group was able to have the board of AFRA 
adopt any particular Communist Party program? 

Mr, Erwin. Only one that I remember specifically, and I don't 
know if the actual resolution would ever have come before AFRA 
without the intervention of the Communist members of the board. 

But I am sure had it come before it, this particular measure would 
have passed, anyway, regardless of the Communist group in which 
AFRA made, roughly, a statement to the effect that it didn't approve 
of broad racial characters of people, that is, where a particular race 
or group of people was held up to a comic characterization to the 
extent of ridicule. 

Mr. Tavenner. What I am trying to ascertain is whether or not 
in your judgment there were other Communist Party influences within 
that group, other than the two you have mentioned. 

Mr. Erwin. You mean myself and Georgia Backus? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Erwin. Oh, yes ; there was one other Communist on the board 
at a later date. I am not sure he was in at this first date mentioned, 
or not. I believe he was, but I am not positive. 

Paul McVey was also on the board during this 1947 period. 

I would like to say, certainly, for the record that I am sure that 
AFRA could stand any scrutiny whatsoever on their policies on 
broad issues, as certainly not being broadly influenced by the Com- 
munists at any time, as being ever considered as really substantially 
infiltrated by the Communist membership because there was at the 
same time a definite balancing body on the board, which was quite 
vocally anti-Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. So there is no justification for the feeling that this 
particular board was under any special influence or domination or 
control of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Erwin. No, I cannot at all say that it was ever controlled by 
the Communist Party. That was the desire very definitely, and the 
attempt was definitely made. But as to its actual effectiveness, I am 
sure it was nullified. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many members constituted the board? 

Mr. Erwin. Oh, that is a good question. I will have to remember. 
On the local board was — I am not positive, but I believe there are 
about 15. I am not sure, but there were approximately — in no board 
meeting would you ever see the entire membership of the board at 
one time. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you cease your activities within the Com- 
munist Party at the instance of the Federal Bureau of Investigation? 

Mr. Erwin. Effectively it ceased at the end of 1948 or early in 
1949 due to exigencies of my own work, which were becoming too 
great for me to attend Communist meetings. Again the same thing, 
but I was working also on the outside on some other things. 

On discussion with my contact, he decided that certainly I was to 
be given the opportunity to pursue my work by this time. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. Then when your arrangement with the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation terminated you also terminated your connec- 
tion with the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Erwin. Yes. I never returned after that time to any meetings, 
after the end of 1948 or the beginning of 1949. I kept in contact with 



706 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

the Federal Bureau of Investigation through my previous contact, 
that is, as to answering questions. I didn't file photographs, et cetera, 
but I never actually contacted the Communist Party on a cell level, 
or any other level again after that period. I was unable to, in fact. 

Mr. Jackson. Has your association with the party been exposed 
in public testimony or in court testimony? 

Mr. Erwin. It has not. 

Mr. Jackson. This is your first appearance since your break ? 

Mr. Erwin. Yes. 

Mr. TivvENNER. Mr. Erwin, I neglected to ask you how many com- 
posed, how many persons composed the Communist Party cell within 
radio at any one time. 

Mr. Erwin. Well, my original group in 1945 was of a number 
somewhere in the neighborhood of 18 or 20. This group then, I 
learned on my return in 1947, had grown even larger and had split 
into three groups, all of them actually comprising the radio branch. 
But they were separate and, for the purpose of security, were not 
identified to each other, except by code name, and the members of 
one group were not necessarily known to the members of the other 
group. 

No discussion of the names w\as ever taken. This was a security 
measure and to cut down the size of the group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you advise us of the code name of any of the 
groups ? 

Mr. Erwin. I only remember one of the code names, which was 
a group other than my own. It was called Aragon. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what the code name of your own 
group was? 

Mr. Erwin. I do not know. It was never referred to. I believe 
it was only used actually by the section in identifying from which 
group a particular communication or dues, or what have you, came. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the total number of Communist Party 
members in the three gi'oups? 

Mr. Erwin. I do not know as to the other groups. My own group 
was composed of about 15 members, I think, maximum, with full 
attendance, which, of course, was not, in fact, practically never was 
there a real full attendance. This did not necessarily indicate lax- 
ness, but due to the extreme variation in scheduling in the radio indus- 
try if a particular person were working a show on the night of a 
meeting, it was considered as an acceptable excuse for not appearing 
at a meeting, naturally. 

So that is why I say the attendance wasn't 100 percent. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you acquire knowledge of how the funds, that 
is, the dues and assessments of the Communist Party members were 
handled ? 

Mr. Erwin. I did not. I had no contact with the treasury opera- 
tion beyond just the paying of my own dues. I had no knowledge of 
the way the disposition of those moneys were after they passed from 
the hands of the branch. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe that is all I desire to ask. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle, do you have something ? 

Mr. Doyle. I just have one question, Mr. Chairman, in addition to a 
few other items. However, I wish to ask this witness this : 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 707 

You kept on mentioning, as I called to your attention before, the 
fact that the Communist books, text, and in the meetings the subject 
of revolution was mentioned. I think once, at least, in your very 
valuable testimony, for which I wish to compliment you, you men- 
tioned, I think, in substance, that there was no talk about the members 
of the cell or Communist Party using arms and ammunition. 

Who was, if anyone, or who will use arms and ammunition, or is that 
involved in the revolution that may come or that they advocate must 
come — I will put it that way — in their literature ? 

Mr. Erwin. Yes ; it is stated that it must come. The teaching that 
we were given in the new members class and at any other time that the 
subject came up directly, the party answer to accusations about the 
advocating of the overthrow of this Government by force and violence, 
their answer to this charge was, "If anyone bears arms, it will be the 
opposition, that is, the counter revolution who attack us first, so 
never consider or never give weight to a statement that a Communist 
is advocating the overthrow of the Government by force and violence 
or bearing arms against others voluntarily ; if the Communists pick up 
arms, it is to defend themselves." 

Mr. Jackson. Would the gentleman yield for an observation at this 
point. I think this might be a good time to read into the record the 
finding of Chief Justice Vinson in affirming of the lower court's 
decision in the conviction of the defendants under the Smith Act. 
This is excerpt from the Chief Justice's opinion : 

The court of appeals held that the record supports the following broad conclu- 
sions : By virtue of their controls, that is, over the Communist Party, petitioners 
caused it to resume a policy which worked for the overthrow of the Government 
by force and violence ; that the Communist Party is a highly disciplined organi- 
zation, adept at infiltration into strategic positions, at the use of aliases and 
double meaning language ; that the party is rigidly controlled ; that Communists 
unlike other political parties tolerate no dissention from the policy laid down by 
the guiding forces, but that the approved propaganda is slavishly followed by the 
members of the party ; that the literature of the party and the statements and 
activities of these petitioners here advocate and the general role of the party was 
during the period in question to achieve the successful overthrow of the existing 
order by force and violence. 

I think it is desirable to have that in the record at this time. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, as I understand your interpretation of 
these pamphlets and books, it is that when the revolution comes — 
and they say it must come — then the only way that that revolution 
can be resisted will be by force of arms. 

Mr. Erwin. That was definitely the inference. Well, yes, they said 
actually that the workers will have to defend themselves, which im- 
plies, naturally, the use of counter arms. 

Mr. Doyle. Now, the words that the Communist revolution will get 
to the point someday where the revolution will be successful, unless 
it is resisted by the force of arms, and that will force the Communists 
to use arms themselves in the Communist revolution; is that correct? 

Mr. Erwin. Very definitely. 

Mr. Doyle. Now, Mr. Chairman, referring to this book. History 
of the Communist Movement of the Soviet Union, which is called 
the short course on the flyleaf, and consists, nevertheless, of 356 pages, 



708 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

I notice on page 353 two very brief paragraphs which I think it per- 
tinent to be read. I quote under "Conclusions." 

The history of the party — 

referring to the Communist Party — 

teaches us, first of all, that the victory of the proletarian revolution, the victory 
of the dictatorship, of the proletariat, is impossible without a revolutionary 
party of the proletariat, a party free from opportunism, irreconcilable toward 
compromisers and capitulators, and revolutionary in its attitude toward the 
bourgeoisie and its state power. 

The history of the party teaches us that to leave the proletariat without such 
a party means to leave it without revolutionary leadership, and to leave it 
without revolutionary leadership means to ruin the cause of the proletarian 
revolution. 

I received, Mr. Chairman, I think, a very significant telegram from 
a group of citizens in my own congressional district in this county. 
It is short and it is addressed to me and therefore I am reading it. 

Relay to your committee we are unable to find logical reason for innocent 
people to refuse testimony. Yours is a complex job to do. Some will criticize 
because they do not understand but is it fair to criticize merely because one 
misunderstands purpose? Signed Southeast Barbers Association, Southeast Los 
Angeles. 

I wish to compliment that group. 

Mr. Jackson. Anything further, Mr. Doyle? 

Mr. Doyle. One thing further. In connection with that, Mr. Chair- 
man, I wish to again emphasize, without reading, the fact that this 
committee has been here under the express authority and direction 
of Public Law 601 which assigns to us this sort of work, and that 
this committee is a bipartisan committee, by the way, consisting only 
of 9 members. Now, in last night's paper or this morning's paper, 
in view of the fact that we have had some men before us yesterday 
and today or yesterday and the day before who apparently are earn- 
ing their livelihood in the field of teaching, I wish to read, I think, 
a very pertinent news release from the influential Association of 
American Universities, consisting of 37 leading American and Cana- 
dian universities, which report from this group said : 

Appointment to a university position and retention after appointment re- 
quire not only professional competency but involve the aflSrniative obligation 
of being diligent and loyal in citizenship. Above all. a scholar must have in- 
tegrity and independence. This renders impossible adherence to such a regime 
as that of Russia and its satellites. No person who accepts or advocates such 
principles and methods has any place in a university. Since present member- 
ship in the CommunLst Party requires acceptance of these principles and these 
methods, such membership extinguishes the right to university position. 

Thank you very much. 

Mr. Jackson. Thank you, Mr. Doyle. 

At tliis time, and as we draw near the adjournment of these hearings 
for the time being — first of all, is there any reason why the witness 
should not be excused ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I believe there is one other question 
that I should ask. 

Mr. D0Y1.E. Mr. Chairman, let's not lose the benefit of accepting the 
gentleman's offer, I thought he said, to present us with these pam- 
phlets. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Erwin. Certainly. 

Mr. Doyle. Let's accept them, Mr. Chairman. I move we do so. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 709 

Mr. Jackson. Accepted, with thanks. Go ahead, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Erwin, due to the study that you made of the 
Communist Party tactics and during the period of time that you were 
in the party in behalf of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, I think 
I should ask you a general question. Is there anything else about 
your experience in the Communist Party which would be of value to 
this committee and which you could tell us? 

Mr. Erwin. Well, I believe there is, and I will try to be as brief 
as possible in saying this, that I feel, number one, that we must look 
very carefully at our adversary in combating communism. One of 
the main points that was brought home during this latter period of 
my studies in revolutionary tactics, practically a direct quote is that 
the consideration by a comrade of bourgeois ethics and morals, mean- 
ing our overall concept of right and wrong, is meaningless to the rev- 
olutionary workers, to the Communist ; that is, that if it is necessary 
to lie, to cheat, use any nefarious tactics whatsoever, it is perfectly 
justifiable and a comrade need to feel no qualms in doing so if he is 
supporting the revolution in doing that, which is a basic concept 
again. 

Now, in view of these facts, there are just a couple of points that 
I would like to say on a general basis which I think that the committee 
might find of some value. Number one is that all men in the public 
service and in the public eye, so far as that is concerned, including 
myself, should be extremely careful about any statement made that 
will further confusion to people in general, because they definitely 
give aid and comfort to the Communists. 

For instance, I heard a quote, I believe of someone in the Congress 
from Washington last week. 

I just heard it on the air and did not get the gentleman's name, but 
it was made in reference to some of the statements made by Louis Bu- 
denz in which the man said, in effect, "I am sick and tired of having 
these ex-Communists lecture us who had enough sense to stay out of 
the Communist Party in the first place." 

This sort of attitude definitely gives aid and comfort to the Com- 
munist Party now because we who have been members of the Com- 
munist Party are the ones, I believe, who really Imow the adversary 
thoroughly, and I believe we who have come forward and stated 
these plainly and to the best of our knowledge are giving invaluable 
service to the country and to the people in general. 

Mr. Jackson. I would say, sir, that the sum total of the knowl- 
edge possessed by the American people and by this committee and of 
the Congress of the operations and activities of the Communist Party 
has not come from hostile witnesses who heap abuse upon the com- 
mittee, but from those former Communists who have come forward 
to cooperate with this committee and with their Government. 

Mr. Erwin. Very definitely. This was made directly in reference 
to Louis Budenz. 

Mr. Jackson. I want to say that if we had to depend upon some of 
the witnesses we have had here, we wouldn't have any information on 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Erwin. As I say, all I wanted to do was to call for the opportu- 
nity to express my own feelings that every member of every committee 
or gi'oup in making any public statement that comes before the people, 
that they consider very carefully what the long-range statements or 



710 COIVOIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 

results of statements may be in reference to this particular problem, 
because it can create confusion, and that is the basic tactic of Com- 
munists is to create as much confusion as possible. 

Mr. Jackson. Anything further? 

Mr. Taatenner. That is all. 

Mr. Jackson. We are very appreciative of your cooperation before 
the committee this morning, "i on are excused. 

(Whereupon the witness was excused.) 

Mr. Jackson. Do you have something further, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I have a message here from Mrs. Hugh Butler, 
in Washington, who has been a resident of Washington for 2- years, 
and wishes it announced over the air that her husband, Hugh Butler, 
of Pomona, just returned from 30 years of Federal service, is not the 
Hugh Butler mentioned by David Lang in his testimony. I think 
the Butler mentioned by the witness in the course of the testimony 
was Hugo Butler. The individual referred to here is Hugh Butler. 

Then I have another message from Mrs. Lillian S. Baron, 1622 
South INIansfield, stating that her name is identical with the person 
whose name has been mentioned in the course of the hearings, and she 
is not the same individual that has been mentioned here. 

Tliat is all. 

Mr. Jackson. At this time, on behalf of the committee and all of 
the members, even though Mr. Doyle and I are the only two remain- 
ing, I should like to extend our very sincere thanks to those who 
have participated in any way in making this hearing one of the most 
successful, I believe, we have had in recent years. 

Our special thanks are due to United States INIarshal James J. 
Boyle for his cooperation, and also to his deputies, to Mr. E. F. 
Stilwell, the superintendent of the Federal Building, and to all of 
the employees here in the Federal Building, to the Signal Corps of 
the United States Army for the pnblic-address system, to Sheriff 
Eugene Biscailuz of Los Angeles County, and to Chief of Police 
Parker, of Los Angeles Police Department, and the members of their 
respective agencies. 

Out thanks, too, to the working press for the splendid coverage 
that we have had in the press and the local periodicals, a coverage 
which I don't think has been exceeded in any hearing which we have 
conducted. 

Our thanks to radio and to television commentators, announcers, 
and crew members who have done such a tremendous job in bringing 
this hearing to the people of southern California. 

Last, but by no means least, of course, the committee extends its 
very deep thanks to the uncounted number of people who have wired 
in or have written in their commendation of the committee and their 
expressed approval of the hearings. We all appreciate it very very 
much and it makes the job, which is sometimes a little hectic and. 
difficult, a little bit easier. 

I think the committee would want to thank our counsel, Mr. 
Tavenner, for his unfailing patience in meeting some of the problems 
he is called upon to meet, and also our investigator here in Los 
Angeles, Mr. William Wheeler. 

We had another rather unusual greeting this morning in the form 
of a very large and very beautiful cake. The inscription on the cake 
read: "To the House Committee on Un-American Activities, con- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA 711 

gratulations and best wishes from someone very happy to have become 
a naturalized citizen." The maker of the cake, Mr. Anton B. Voss, 
is due the thanks of the committee, and they are hereby transmitted 
to him. Inasmuch as Mr, Doyle and I are the only two that remain 
behind and can't possibly eat the cake, it has been sent to the Children's 
Hospital with the best regards of the committee members, and we hope 
the youngsters enjoy it. 

Is there anything else, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tamsnner. No; I have nothing else at this time, except, Mr. 
Chairman, as to whether or not we meet on Tuesday of next week. 

Mr. Jackson. We will have to decide that later. The hearings next 
week, with the exception of several witnesses which the committee 
desires to hear in executive session at this stage of their testimony, will 
be open to the public, and of course to the working press and press 
photographers. There will not be television or radio coverage of those 
hearings which will commence on either April the 6th or on April the 
7th, the date not having been definitely decided at this time. 

I think there is a parting note which sums up the feeling of the 
committee as far as this work is concerned. I would like to read a 
very brief statement by a young Czech who escaped from Czchoslo- 
vakia and became again a freeman. I think his words are apropos 
to our situation here today in the United States. 

He said : 

The same conditions exist in America today that preceded the downfall of my 
country. Everybody took it for granted that because we were a freedom-loving 
people, we could never lose our freedom. We paid no attention to repeated warn- 
ings that the Communists were infiltrating into the heart of everything that 
affected our destiny. The majority of us went on living in our smug little worlds, 
too busy with business, parties, ski trips and the rest to realize the frightful 
penalty we were soon to pay for our neglect. One morning our bitter fate came 
upon us like a shot out of hell. Machine guns lined the streets. The Govern- 
ment, the army, the schools, communications, everything had been taken over 
by the Communists ovei-night. Our money isn't worth 2 cents on the dollar 
now. Will we ever get a second chance? Only a few like myself escaped and 
our one ambition is to warn you Americans not to make the same mistake. 

The session is adjourned. 

(Whereupon, at 12:25 p. m., the hearing was adojurned sine 
die.) 



INDEX 



Individuals 

Page 

Alexander, Harmon 632, 633 

Alexander, Hy 702 

Alsop 665 

Aragon 706 

Atlas, Leopold 673, 675 

Backus, Georgia 632, 633, 689, 702, 704, 705 

Baron, Lillian S 710 

Belclier 685 

Biscailuz, Eugene 710 

Blakeslee, xMrs. Charles B 640,641 

Blankfort, Henry 633 

Boyle, James J 710 

Brooks, Lon 686 

Brooks, Lon A 686 

Browder, Earl 702 

Brownell, Attorney General 665 

Budenz, Louis 709 

Burke, Libby 655-667 (testimony), 668 

Burrows, Abe 632, 638, 639 

Butler, Hugh 710 

Butler, Mrs. Hugh 710 

Byrne, Norman T 623, 642 

CarlyJe, Harry 703, 704 

Caudwell, Christopher 701 

Crouch, Paul 6C5 

Clark, Joseph 701 

Cooper, Bert 702 

Davis, Robert R 663, 664 

Dawson, Glen 642 

Dawson, Muir 642 

Denman, Judge 679 

Duclos 628, 629, 630, 633 

Eisenberg, Mrs. Francis R 620 

Erwin, Roy 634,687-710 (testimony) 

Esterman, William B 613-623, 643-667, 669-678 

Fisher, Ed 641 

Fisher, Mrs. Ed 641 

Fisher, John Edwin 641 

Foster, William Z 701 

Frank, Michael 642 

Garaudy, Roger 701 

Gerber, Serrill 623 

Gilbert, W. L. Jr 685,686 

Goldway, David 688 

Harper, Annette 632 

Hauser, Dwight 623,624-640 (testimony), 643, 686, 687, 689, 692, 702 

Herndon, LeRoy 613, 615 

Heron, Lillian 686 

Hopkins, Pauline 633, 702, 703 

Hopkins, Pauline E 703 

Horn, Sam 642 

Jerome, V. J 701 

Kenny, Robert 642 



713 



714 INDEX 

Paga 

Kinsel. Karen 633 

Klowden, Mr 693 

Klowden, Nina 634, 689, 690, 697, 702, 703 

Koestler, Arthur 701 

Lang, David 641, 710 

I^wis, Al 6S6 

Lewis, Richard B 613, 615 

Lomanitz, Giovanni Rossi 663, 664 

Layne, John 701 

Mafia, Edith 640, 641, 642, 686 

Magil, A. B 694, 695, 701 

Malranx, Andr^ . 701 

Marion, Paul 632, 686 

Marshall, Daniel G 613-623, 643-667, 669-4)78 

Mauriac, Francois 701 

McCloskey, Joe 641 

McVey, Paul___ 633, 702, 703, 705 

McVey, Mrs. Paul 703 

Meade, William 649 

Minkus, Abraham 613-623 (testimony) 

Moore, Sam 632, 702, 703 

Morley, Karen 704 

Nichol, Edda (Communist Party name for Edith Macia) 640 

Paine, Tom 653 

Parker. Chief of Police, Los Angeles 710 

Penn. William 649 

Pollin, Ben 703 

Posell, Rose 622, 623 

Rapt John 703, 704 

Richards, Sylvia 701 

Roberts, Bob 683 

Roberts, George Bob 683 

Roberts, Marvel 683 

Robeson, Naomi 633,669-678 (testimony) 

Robison, David 643-655 (testimony) 

Robinson, Jack 703 

Robinson, John 703 

Robinson, Mary (Mrs. John Robinson) 703 

Rossini, George B 668-669 (testimony) 

Sartre, Jean Paul 701 

Schorr, Wilma 641 

Shepro, Harry 622, 623 

Sigurdson, Halldora Kirstin 641 

Silver, Max 677, 678 

Smith, Gerald L. K 688 

Stilwpll, E. F 710 

Taylor, Burton 687 

Thorez, Maurice 701 

Tobin, John P 641 

Vinson, Chief Justice 707 

Vinson, Owen 632, 639, 670, 671, 702, 703 

Voss, Anton B 711 

Warner, INIurray 633 

Waidman, Herman 697, 703 

Waldreen, Herman 697, 703 

Whitney, Lynn 633, 697, 702, 703 

Wilkinson, Mrs. Jean Benson 620 

Wolfe, David 697, 703 

Wood. John S 660 

Organizations 

American Broadcasting Co 625 

American Federation of Radio Artists 689, 690, 704, 705 

American-Russian Institute 701 

Association of American Universities 708 

California Committee on Un-American Activities 620 



INDEX 715 

Page 

Cheremoya Street School. Hollywood 621 

Citizens' Committee for Better Education 620 

Citizens' Committee for Better Schools 619 

Citizens' Committee for Freedom in Education 619, 620. 621 

Citizens' Inquiry Committee 687 

Clarence Barker Fellowship 644 

Cleveland Playhouse 670 

Columbia Broadcasting System 625 

Columbia University 644, 646-648 

Committee for Good Schools 667 

Congress of Industrial Organizations 683 

Dawson's Book Shop 642 

Federal Bureau of Investigation 640, 696, 705, 706, 709 

Federal Communications Commission 697 

Federal theater project 624, 625 

Fisk University 650, 651, 653, 654 

Humanists Hall 621 

Immigration Appeals Board 641 

International Publishers, New York 691 

Library of Congress 657 

Los Angeles Bar Association 685 

Los Angeles Board of Education 619 

Los Angeles City School System 622 

Los Angeles County School System 622 

Los Angeles Police Department 710 

Los Angeles Teachers' Union 614 

National Broadcasting Co 703 

New Century Publishers 700, 701 

Peabody College 654 

Red Cross 634, 635, 6as 

Save Our Schools Committee 667 

Signal Corps of the United States Army 710 

Supreme Court 678 

Southeast Barbers Association, Southeast Los Angeles 708 

Teachers' Union 615, 616-618 

Townsend Harris Hall High School, New York 644 

United Citizens Committee for Better Schools 618, 619, 621 

United Nations Educational, Social & Cultural Organization 622 

United States Army 633, 642 

United States Steel Corp 700 

University of California, Berkeley 656 

University of California, Los Angeles 687 

University of Vienna 644 

Vanderbllt University 654 

West Adams Women's Club 640,641 

William S. Hart Union High School, Newhall, Calif 686 

William Mason Fellowship 644 

Workers Library Publishers, New York 702 

Publications 

The Bodley Head Literature 701 

Communist Party of the USA, Its History Role and Organization 702 

Daily Worker 688 

History of the Communist Movement of the Soviet Union 707 

History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Bolsheviks 690, 691, 695 

Masses and Mainstream 700 

New York Herald Tribune 701 

People's World 700 

Political Affairs 700 

Science and Society 700 

Socialism, What Is in It for You GQi 

Ten Classics of Marxism 701 

Twenty-Three Questions 701 

Value, Price, and Profit 694 

Worker 688 

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