HARVARD COLLEGE
LIBRARY
GIFT OF THE
GOVERNMENT
OF THE UNITED STATES
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA— Part 4
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
JULY 1 AND 2, 1955
Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities
INCLUDING INDEX
HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY
DEPOSITED BY THE
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
001311955
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE!
66500 WASHINGTON : 1955
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Representatives
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois
CLYDE DOYLE, California BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York
JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee DONALD L. JACKSON, California
EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio
Thomas W. Bbalk^ Sr., Chief Clerk
n
CONTENTS
Part 1
June 27, 1955: Testimony of — Page
Paul Wright Orr 1 440
Aft^ernoon session:
Andries Deinum 1 474
Anita Bell Schneider 1498
June 28, 1955: Testimony of —
Angela Clarke 1523
Cecil Beard 1538
Diamond Kim 1543
Afternoon session:
Diamond Kim (resumed) 1565
Sue Lavvson 1572
George Hugh Murray Maitland Hardyman 1575
Part 2
June 29, 1955: Testimony of —
George Hugh Murray Maitland Hardyman (resumed) 1599
Raphael Konigsberg 1656
Afternoon session:
Sylvia Schonfield 1668
Jean Wilkinson 1676
Frank C. Davis 1 679
Irene B. Bowerman 1689
Carl Sugar 1 697
Part 3
June 30, 1955: Testimonj^ of —
Matthe'rt^ Samuel Vidaver, Jr 1707
William Elconin 1713
William Ward Kimple 1731
Afternoon session:
William Ward Kimple (resumed) 1742
Max Benjamin Natapoff 1761
Tashia Freed 1764
Max Appleman 1 768
Joseph W. Aidlin 1771
Part 4
July 1, 1955: Testimony of—
Stephen A. Wereb 1779
Afternoon session:
Stephen A. Wereb (resumed) 1811
James Burford 1827
Anne Pollock 1837
Margaret Vaughn Mever _ 1844
July 2, 1955: Testimony of—
Stephen A. Wereb (resumed) 1851
Jolm Waters Houston I860
Harry Hay 1872
Martha Hard Wheeldin 1875
Louis Stark 1882
Robert L. Brock 1889
Index I
rn
Public Law 601, 79tii Congress
The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter
753, 2d session, which provides :
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of America in Congress assemhled, * * *
PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Rule X
SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES
*******
17. Committee on Un-Ameriean Activities, to consist of nine members.
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities.
(A) Un-American Activities.
(2) The Connnittee on Un-American Activities, as a wliole, or by subcom-
mittee, is authorized to malve from time to time investigations of (i) the extent,
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any
necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hokl such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such cliairmau or member.
RULES ADOPTED BY THE 84TH CONGRESS
House Resolutiou 5, January 5, 1955
*******
Rule X
STANDING COMMITTEES
1. There shall be elected by the House, at the eoimuenceiuent of each Congress,
the following standing committees :
*******
(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members.
*******
Rule XI
POWERS A>"D DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
17. Committee on Un-American Activities.
(a) Un-American Activities.
(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char-
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop-
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu-
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in
any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session ) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigati<ni, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance of
such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and to
take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under the
signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any mem-
ber designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person designated by
any such chairman or member.
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA— Part 4
FBIDAY, JULY 1, 1955
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Los Angeles^ Calif.
public hearing
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met
at 9 : 40 a. m., pursuant to recess, in room 518, Federal Building, Los
Angeles, Calif., Hon. Clyde Doyle (chairman of the subcommittee)
presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Clyde Doyle (chair-
man) ; Morgan M. Moulder, Donald L. Jackson, and Gordon H.
Scherer.
Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, counsel; and William
A. Wheeler, investigator.
Mr. Doyle. The committee will please convene.
Mr. Wereb, will you please rise and be sworn. Do you solemnly
swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God %
Mr. Wereb. I do.
TESTIMONY OF STEPHEN A. WEEEB
Mr. Tavenner, Will you state your name, please sir.
Mr. Wereb. Stephen A. Wereb.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are not accompanied by counsel.
You are familiar with the rule of the committee, are you not, that you
are entitled to counsel if you so desire %
Mr. Wereb. I am, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your name, please.
Mr. Wereb, W-e-r-e-b.
Mr. Tavenner, When and where were you born, Mr. Wereb ?
Mr. Wereb. I was born at Alpha, N, J., April 27, 1898,
Mr. Tay-enner. Do you presently reside in Los Angeles County ?
Mr. Wereb. I do, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you resided in Los Angeles County ?
Mr. Wereb. Thirty- five years, sir,
Mr. Tavenner, Will you tell the committee, please, what your
formal educational training has been?
Mr. Wereb. I have had grade-school education, high-school educa-
tion, and I have had 1 year of business and business administration
at the University of Pennsylvania,
1779
1780 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr, Tavenner. What is your occupation ?
Mr. Wereb. At the present time I own and operate the Weber Type-
writer Service.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you had occasion in the past to be employed
by any investigative branch of the Federal Government ?
Mr. Wereb. I have, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of that employment ?
Mr. Wereb. I worked for the Federal Bureau of Investigation as
an undercover agent.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, how it happened
that you were employed in that capacity ?
Mr. Wereb. My attention first to subversive talks, literature, activi-
ties, was drawn by leaflets, speeches, and aggressiveness and the pro-
Russian attitude of certain people along my stops, and this alarmed me
to such an extent that 1 took the necessary steps to inquire further, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by saying "along your stops"?
Mr. Wereb. During my work at the Typewriter Service, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Prior to your being employed by the Federal Bu-
reau of Investigation, had you been affiliated in any manner with the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. I had not, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you testified prior to today on the subject of
communism ?
Mr. Wereb. I have, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. In what courts or before what bodies did you
testify ?
Mr. Wereb. I have testified at the Smith Act trials of Schneider-
man V. the United States Government in 1953, I believe, and then I
appeared before this committee in San Diego last year.
Mr. Tav'enner. That was for a limited purpose at San Diego, I
believe.
Mr. Wereb. That is right, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You did not at that time testify generally about
your knowledge of Communist Party activities in the Los Angeles
County area ?
Mr. Wereb. I did not.
Mr. Ta\'enner. As a result of being employed by the Federal Bu-
reau of Investigation, did you seek admission to the Communist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. I did, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of what appears to be
a Communist Party card. Will you identify it, please ?
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mr. Wereb. Tliis was my membership book in the Hawthorne group
of the Communist Party in 1944.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it issued to you by the Communist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. It was issued to me by the membership director at that
time, one Vernon L. Potter, at my home, who identified himself as the
membership chairman of that group.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the card and state whether or not
it shows the name of the person who was the owner of the book ?
Mr. Wereb. It does.
Mr. Tavenner. What is the name ?
Mr. Wereb. S. A. Weber.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1781
Mr. Tavenner. S. A. Weber ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Your name is Wereb ?
Mr. Wereb. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that your party name ?
Mr. Wereb. It was used during my membership in the party, but
this name has been published in the Daily News — not the Daily News,
but the I^gal Daily, for the purpose of doing business under the name
of Weber Typewriter Service and it was at the behest and suggestion
of some of my accounts. Therefore, I took legal steps to change it to
that only doing business.
Mr. Tavenner. But that is the name in the Communist Party by
which you registered ?
Mr. Wereb. That is correct ; they never knew my real name.
Mr, Tavenner. During what period of time did you work within the
Communist Party for the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
Mr. Wereb. Approximately from October of 1943 until the 1st of
January or thereabouts of 1948.
Mr. Tavenner. "^Vliat prompted you to undertake an assignment of
that character?
Mr. Wereb. Well, sir, my people came from Europe — they came
from a place of oppression — and I was born here and I just could not
quite understand the stories that I heard from immigrants and other
people who have taken refuge here, what a wonderful place this is,
and how anyone could attempt to use force or violence to try to over-
throw or even subversion to overthrow this type of government, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. That motivated you in undertaking this difficult
assignment ?
Mr. Wereb. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. During the course of these years which you gave to
work Avithin the Communist Party, did you find it to be a difficult
assignment and one which influenced your life during that period of
time ?
Mr. Wereb. The only influence I have ever had with my associa-
tion— that is, through the association of the Communist Party— was a
greater love that I have for the country, because of their teaching, of
their unacceptable philosophy, of their impossible attitude, and the
continuous mistrust of one another — the revolutionary tendencies. In
other words, if I did have, shall we say, such a thought as a progressive
thought ever in my bones, which I don't believe I ever had, that cer-
tainly would have cured me.
Mr. Tavi:nner. In what sense do you use the term "progressive"?
Mr. Wereb. I mean that as the Communist Party uses it. There are
times that it is more applicable to use that you are a progressive rather
than a Communist, wherever the case may fit. For instance, if you
are an active person in the union, they do not exactly relish the idea
of you standing out there as a Communist but they would rather have
you there as a "progressive" person ; or if you are active in any politics
of any kind, they try and avert the Communist apx)roach from any-
thingj but what they try to do is use the words "progressive," "demo-
cratic," "democracy." They drag that around just like a dirty rug.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there anything of significance that occurred
within a few months prior to the time you actually became a member
of the Communist Party in carrying out your assignment which would
be of value to the committee ?
1782 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Wereb. Just the sort of an explanation of how hard it is to get
into this o;roup. In other words, I tried wholeheartedly, I attended
every function advertised in the Peoples Daily World and everywhere
where I might have met some of these "progressive" people, I have
attended every function and it took me
Mr. Tavenner. In using the term "progressive," are you using it in
quotation marks?
Mr. Wereb. In quotation marks — still the same men, still the same
answer as in the previous answer, sir. I tried my very best, visited
book stores at that time known as the progressive book shop, and there
Marxist literature of all types was to be had; guides as to how to be a
good Communist; Lenin's works, Stalin's works, and I managed to
read up on those the best I could until I was finally api^roached to join
the party at one of the functions, but it was a 3-month chore.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, who it was that
approaclied you to interest 3'ou in becoming a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. In the month of January in 1944 a Wilhelmina ]Maise,
whom I knew for a long time as a functionary and as one of the full-
time workers at the Peoples Daily World, approached me and signed
me up for the Communist Party.
Mr. Taa-enner. Is the proper spelling of the name M-a-i-s-e?
Mr. Wereb. That is as far as I can remember, sir.
]\rr. Tavenner. Will you proceed to describe what occurred.
Mr. Wereb. At this party tliere were approximately two to three
liundrecl people present. It was held at 2200 West Seventh Street
and it was held by the West Lake group, at that time known as the
West Lake Club of the Communist Party. They had a lot of drink-
ing, they had an affair called their social. It Avas a celebration of an
officers' installation. At that time Willamena Maise was also installed
as the cliairman of the West Lake group.
Mr. Tavenxer. Who was it that actually gave you your Communist
Party card, the photostatic copy of which I exhibited to you?
]Mr. Wereb. A person known to me by the name of Vernon L. Potter
came to my home and I identified myself and he identified himself as
the membership chairman of the Hawtliorne Communist group, and
he gave me my meml^ership card and also my first assignment.
Mr. Taatix^x'er. What was that assignment?
Mr. Wereb. INIy first assignment was, sir, to attend a function known
also as an installation affair at the home of one John and Georgiana
Garrish. I tliink the address — I am not sure of the number, but it
was on Paseo de Gracia in Redondo.
Mr. Tavex'ner. What is the spelling?
Mr. Wereb. G-a-r-r-i-s-h.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. That is the party's name?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavex'ner. Was anj^ security measure taken to ascertain your
future reliability by the Communist Party at the time you entered the
Communist Party, or was any such security measure taken at a later
date?
Mr. Wereb. Security measures of that type were taken at a later
date. I was closely watched and sent to workers' school the first time
before I was integrated into the party.
Mr. Taa-enner. Will you state again briefly what this first assign-
ment was ?
COMMUNIST ACTH'ITIES IX THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1783
Mr. Werer. This first assignment was for me to attend this inaugu-
ration affair on Paseo de Gracia at the liome of Cxarrisli, and there the
neAY elected or — well. I Avonld not say elected, but dictated officers of
the club were introduced. I imagine there were 40 or 45 people there.
At that time I did not know too many, but I did identify ^>rnon
Potter. John Houston, the Garrish family, and Juanita Smith. I do
not recall at the ]5resent time any more names that I would remember
because that was my first alfair.
At this party, of course after tlie introductions finally, a man by
the name of John Houston was introduced, brought out from one of
the side rooms, and he came in and they introduced him as the chair-
man, the new chairman of the Hawthorne-lnglewood Connuunist
]Mr. Tavenner. Tliis was a meeting of the Hawthorne grou]) of the
Commnnist Party '.
Mr. Wereb. That is right, sir. There was no official meeting known
fis — like the other meetings that consist of Marxist class or an educa-
tional period. There was no educational period but there were some
guessing games played such as what Lenin did and who Engels was,
and then they gave" prizes, maybe, of a sandwich or «o or gave you a
little extra pamphlet if you liad the right answers. I had no answers
because I did not know anything about them. Then there was this
man Houston. When he was introduced to the crowd of 50 people or
40 people, he expressed his feeling of gratitude to the crowd and stated
at that time that if we had been reading the papers, liussia at that
time was divided into 16 separate countries and if we worked hard
t^nough in the United States of America, we — that is, the Commu-
nists—we could make this country the 17th state or country of the
Soviet Union.
Mr. Tavexner. Do you recall liis first Jiame. Houston's first name?
Mr. Wereb. John.
Mr. Tavexner. Did you become well acquainted with ^Ir. Houst(m
i]i your future connection Avith the Hawthorne Group of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. We became personal acquaintaneces. sir. I met him on
the average of. oh. I would say, 3 times a month or sometimes 5 times
a month. It would all depend on the assignments and the meetings
that we held.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask a question here, please.
You mean that right here in Hawthorne and Los Angeles County,
Hawthorne being, as I remember it — maybe it is ])art of the city limits
of Los Angeles now ; I don't know. But I know it is right next door to
the city limits of Los Angeles on the south. You mean right t'nere
in our midst this man was preaching and advocating that your Com-
munist cell work hard toward the objective of making the United
States of America the 17th state of the Soviet LTnion ?
Mr. Wereb. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Doyle. It is not a laughing matter, I am sure, for folks who may
be in the room ; nothing funny about it.
Mr. ScHERER. Were we going to get a star ?
Mr. Wereb. I do not know. sir. No star was mentioned.
Mr. Doyle. How many would be at a meeting like that ?
Mr. Wereb. At that meeting I believe there were 40 or 50 people, but
outside of the names I have alreadv called, I could not identifv more
1784 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF,, AREA
because I did not know any more. That was my first function and first
assignment.
Mr. Doyle. Do you know at what level of authority in the Com-
munist Party Houston came from ?
Mr. Wereb. He was a chairman, and to become a chairman of any
Communist group you must liave the a]:)proval of the county officers
and the county officers usually know and aj^prove all candidates. For
instance, at one time I was elected a membership director but the
county kind of did not think that was the proper thing to do, so
they unelected me very quickly within 2 months. In other words,
I was not given any records at that time of any members or member-
ship. I was not given any authority like the other membership direc-
tors had, and there w^as nothing done at club level that was not dic-
tated by the county Communist Party.
Mr. JDoYLE. How did you know they unelected you? Did they tell
you so ?
Mr. Wereb. Well, yes, sir; I believe I was told that Edith Smith,
who has been the membership director up until that time, would be
the ])roper person for that job. I was not directly told, but I was not
trusted; but I could read between the lines that — well, they were not
sure.
Mr. Doyle. How old a man would you estimate this fellow Houston
to be that was speaking apparently with the authority of the Com-
munist County Committee in Los Angeles County when he said the
objective was to work to have the United States of America the l7th
state of the Soviet Union ? How old a man would he be ?
Mr, Wereb, I would say at that time approximately 36 to 38 years
old.
Mr. DoYLE. He was not a child, then, and he was not in his dotage ?
Mr. Wereb. No, sir. He was a well-educated man.
Mr. Doyle. In this meeting room at Inglewood, the Communist
Club or cell where it met, what decorations did they have so far as
pictures, if any, of people or — of course, they had the flag of the
United States up, did they not?
Mr. Wereb. No, sir.
Mr. Doyle, They did not?
Mr. Wereb. No, sir. This was at a home of Mr, and Mrs, Garrish.
Mr. Doyle, Did you ever see a flag of the United States at any
Communist cell meeting?
Mr. Wereb. I believe at one time at the Embassy Auditorium they
had one underneath the balcony in a little hidden corner, but it was a
flag that was small and there were so many large Communist posters
up that you certainly would have to be a trickster to see the American
flag.
Mr, Doyle. What kind of posters were up ?
Mr, Wereb, Money drives for membership and money drives for
defense, money drives for fighting different CongTessmen.
Mr, Doyle, Did they have any pictures of Stalin or any of the rest
of the Communist leaders ? The reason I ask you that question is that
in many of our hearings we have evidence under oath by former bona
fide Communists the fact that they never display an American flag in
their club meetings or cells but they almost always have a picture in
their established club rooms, if they are such, of Stalin and Engels
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1785
and these other Communists leaders but never any of distinguished
Americans.
Mr. Wereb. I have never seen Stalin's picture, with the exception
at the Embassy Auditorium and at the Shrine Auditorium at one
time. The rest of the times our group always met at different homes
and under different circumstances. We tried never to meet twice in
the same place.
]Mr. ScHERER. When you say you saw a picture at the Shrine Audi-
torium, is that when the Communists had rented the auditorium and
were conducting the meeting ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right, sir. I am sorry if you misunderstood.
Mr. ScHERER. I did not misunderstand, I wanted the record clear.
Mr. Wereb. Thank you.
Mr. Doyle. If they had Stalin's picture on those occasions, they
must have had the picture of some President of the United States
right alongside, did they not ?
Mr. Wereb. They may have, but at the present time I do not recall.
Mr. DoTLE. You would be apt to recall it, would you not?
]Mr. Wereb. I do not think I looked for the President's picture to
be there, but if I did, I would have ignored the President's picture
regardless of the circumstances because I have always considered the
President of the United States to be a wonderful person, no matter
who he was, and thought his picture might have been misused. At
one time I think Mr. Truman's picture was up, but I do not recall
where.
Mr. Doyle. I do not think we have had any testimony in any
place in the country that any picture of any great American was
displayed in any Communist cell meeting. That is the reason for
my question, even though the pictures of Soviet great men were
prominently displayed.
Thank you, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenxer. Did Mr. John Houston give you any Communist
Party assignments i
Mr. Wereb. The very first assignment Mr. Houston gave me was
to attend a workers school. This school I did attend, and it was
conducted in a building on Third Street between Spring and Broad-
way. At the present time I do not know the name of this building,
but it was on the second floor. There were no markings on the doors,
but I did see a number of people in the evening going into these
places. So I followed one of the bunches — that is, one of the groups —
and I went into this class. There were 10 weeks of this Marxist
class.
Mr. Tavenner. Who were the instructors ?
Mr. Wereb. The first class I attended, sir, was taught by a man
named Max Silver and he taught the advanced Marxist sciences, as
they called it, or Communist program, and — well, they asked me a
question and I felt kind of stupid because I did not know what they
were talking about. They asked me how long had I been a Com-
munist, and I told them I had just joined and been assigned to this
school. He said, "Did you ever learn Marxism or communism?"
and I said, "Xo." He said, "You go across the hall and there is
another teacher, Emily Gordon, and she will teach all the beginners."
Then I attended the rest of the nine sessions under the tutelage of
Miss Gordon.
1786 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any further Communist Party in-
struction or schooling ?
Mr. Wereb. I have had about 35 different classes that I attended
during my membership in the Communist Party, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you describe them in just a general way?
Mr. Wereb. The Peoples Educational Center.
Mr. Tavenner, Did you attend that at the instruction of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. I did, sir. I was told to go there by Emily Gordon
and
Mr. Tavenner. Was that school being operated by the Communist
Party ?
Mr. Wereb. Well, the only way I could explain that to you, sir,
to be frank, is that they did not want to be known as Communists,
but the Communist Party gave them all their papers, all their type-
writers, all the equipment, all the money, and the teachers. That
I know to be true, sir, because I helped transfer some of the type-
writers and some of the instructive literature which were of Com-
munist nature into this school. I believe there were two teachers
there. One was known as William Wolf. They introduced him as
a member of the party from New York. Then there was one John
Howard Lawson who was the other instructor that I met and I knew
there.
Mr. Tavenner. You say you attended 35 classes. Do you mean
by that a dilfei'ent teaching group ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right, sir. You see, the policy of the party is —
that is, it was at that time — tliat Marxism and Leninism and bol-
shevism would be the prime and the only objective. Therefore, there
would be refresher courses that would average 4 to 5 a year and they
would be, say, classes of 4, classes of 5 — that is, -a series of 4 or 5 is
what I meant — and they, especially the leadership, would be instructed
to attend these meetings. These meetings ordinarily were held by
full-time county functionaries, such as tlie educational directors or
working from the educational director of the Communist Party of
Los Angeles County, sometimes the State: and then there were func-
tionaries' schools, preparatory schools. To become a functionary, I
have attended some of those, sir. They are too numerous to mention.
Mr. Doyle. "Wliat year was that?
Mr. Wereb. This is all between the year of 1944, January, and
1948. That is, the first of January 1948.
Mr. Tavenner, Was there any substantial difference in the type
of instruction that was received ifrom January 1944 up until 1948 ?
Mr, Wereb, Yes. The classes that were conducted directly by the
party were of more revolutionary nature than conducted by the
Peoples Educational Center. This Peoples Educational Center class
was sort of an introductory class to some who might be a prey or easy
prey to communism.
Eva Shafran — she is deceased at this time — she was a Russian citi-
zen and here direct from Russia to teach this. Eva Shafran held
some open classes to labor leaders and union members. I think this
was at the second floor of the Embassy Auditorium, prior to my actu-
ally becoming a member, during the time I tried to gain membership.
Mr. DoYLE, Did you attend any of those classes ?
Mr. Wereb. I did, sir.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1787
Mr. Tavexner. Wliere were these classes generally held?
Mr. Wekeb. Most of the classes for the club members were held in
homes of people who had been Marxists for quite a while. There were
a number of classes held at the home of Lou Stark. I do not recall
his address. Then there were a number of classes held at the home
of Edith Smith, Mike Gorman — a number of classes held at William
Kellas' home.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me stop you there a moment. In mentioning
the names of these persons in whose homes the meetings wei'e held,
I want to know whether you knew those people to be members of the
Communist Party.
Mr. Wereb. I did, sir, because these were all closed Communist
affairs and you could not enter unless you were identified or you had
some identification from the county as a representative, you were the
instructor.
Mr. Tavenner. Up to this point you have mentioned the name of
Mr. Loviis Stark,
Mr. Wereb. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. Was he known to you to be a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. He was a member of the Communist Party because I
issued him, I believe in the year 1946 I issued the membership cards,
and I believe that it is a record of the Government that I did issue that
card.
Mr. Tavenner. The second person that you named in whose home
these meetings were held, I do not recall. Do you recall who the
second one was ?
Mr. Wereb. Edith Smith or William Kellas.
Mr. Tavenner. Both of those ?
Mr. Wereb. Edith Smith was the membership director of our group
throughout most of the time. We had what they called club internal
strife. That is where your distrust of 1 member of another and the
accusation of 1 member and another was continuous. We had continual
turnover. Instead of a man serving in an office for a period of 1 year
that he was supposedly elected to, he would probably serve 3 or 4
months and something would come along and they would change
officers.
Then the home of this William Kellas, who was known to me as a
chairman, I believe on two occasions of our Communist group.
Mr. Tavenner. Is the spelling K-e-1-l-a-s ?
Mr. Wereb. Correct, sir.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask one question here ? A few moments ago you
said that some of these classes were more revolutionary in their nature
and instruction than others. Do you remember saying that ?
Mr. Wereb. I did, sir.
Mr. DoYLE. In what way do you use the term "revolutionary" ?
Mr. Wereb. May I call one class event to your attention, sir, with
your permission? We had a teacher by the name of Elizabeth
Leich ■
Mr. Doyle. How do you spell it ?
Mr. Wereb. Elizabeth L-e-i-c-h G-1-e-n-n. This woman w^as sent
to us by the county educational committee, Los Angeles County Com-
munist Party Educational Committee. She was sent to teach us Marx-
ism and Leninism, of course. During this class she spoke of the
1788 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
progress of Marxism and Leninism and liow well it is and trieid to sell
the idea of the capitalists not owning tools and labor, having just
labor, but the people should own everything and how eventually it
would wind into an impossible situation.
So one of the members of the class asked what she meant by that.
She said, "Of course I mean that there would be a revolution," and
she said this revolution would come about and there would be many
people, hurt, people get killed — including workers; there would be
an overthrow of the Government, confiscation of private property.
This woman, sir, was an official teacher of the Los Angeles County
Communist Party.
]Mr. Doyle. Did you hear her say that ?
Mr. Wereb. I did, sir. I sat there and heard her say so,
Mr. Doyle. Where did that occur ?
Mr. Wereb. That occurred at the home of Lou Stark.
Mr. Doyle. About what year ?
Mr. Wereb. I would say the year of 1945, latter part of 1945 or
first of 1946.
Mr. Doyle. Was that a closed Communist Party meeting ?
]Mr. Wereb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. About how many people were there ?
Mr. Wereb, I believe I have notes. Would you like to hear tliem,
sir ? I believe I have ■
Mr. Doyle, I do not mean to take over your examination, ■
Mr. Tavenner. I think since you asked that question he should
answer.
Mr. Doyle. I was interested in that one particular thing, that
particular revolutionary matter,
Mr. Tavenner. He should be allowed to refresh his recollection.
Mr, Wereb, I have notes,
Mr, Doyle, When did j^ou make those notes ?
Mr, Wereb, I made them regularly riglit after the meeting and at
the present time after I severed my connection with the party I did
manage to keep out a few little things for myself, and I do have some
information which was not easy to get, I could give you this class and
the people that were there. Yes ; here it is, sir,
Mr. Doyle. Is there a date on those notes ?
Mr. Wereb. No, sir, just general; no dates. Yes, it shows when
his teaching w^as — I beg your pardon. It was 1947, not 1946. There
were present at that time John Houston, Vernon Potter, Jack Karson,
Edith Smith, Lou Stark and his wife Mrs. Marion Stark, Mike
Gorman and Ed Fitzgerald, I believe. There was a Lillian Frong.
Mr, TavennI':r, What was that last name ?
Mr, Wereb, Lillian Frong, F-r-o-n-g, and Sam Chriss.
Mr, Tavenner. What is the spelling of Chriss ?
Mr, Wereb. C-h-r-i-s-s. That is plionetic, as close as I ever came
to the correct spelling. Marion Stark is the first name of Mrs. Stark.
Pauline Sullivan, Ida Karson, Chester Fein,
Mr, Tavenner, F-e-i-n ?
Mr, Wereb, Correct, sir; Adrienne Fein, And a man known to me
by the name of Mel Wilkerson at that meeting, sir.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask one more question, Counsel.
At that ])articular class which you have mentioned when this woman
was describing the revolutionary action that had to come or would
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF,, AREA 1789
come in her judgment, what part, if any, was the Communist member-
ship to phiy in the revohition i What were they to do ?
Mr. Wereb. They were to be the prime and the rulins: factor of
tliis revohition, sir. They would guide it and that was one of the
reasons they said the only way it could be done is having enough
people in tlie labor unions who were Marxist trained and Marxist and
Leninist education and had the Stalin spirit, and those people were
the people who would help put about this program. That is at one
of the classes. There were a number of classes of this nature, sir.
Mr. Taa'enner. You say there were a number of classes of this
nature?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, there were. I also recall another class that was
held at the home of William Kellas. This man Kellas was known to
me as a party member and by his own admission as far back as 1923
or 1924, at that time, was known by a different name.
Mr. Kellas was a very, very well read and well educated Marxist
and all his time and all his effort went into the Marxist education and
teaching. He taught a class. I would have to refer to my notes as
to wdien this was again, but I will give you a general idea of what
they called a cadre class. This cadre class, I will manage to explain,
is a class who is taught leadership. He most naturally was questioned
as to what this — well, we only have one leadership, but at the present
time what is it? — and he said this cadre class is for a leadership of
five depth.
Mr. Doyle. What?
Mr. Wereb. Five depth. Five labor chairmen, five literature direc-
tors, five of everything. If the Federal Bureau of Investigation
decided or the Government decided to have the Federal Bureau of
Investigation arrest these people for subversive activities or trouble
came along, the second group automatically would step right up. If
the police or some other law-enforcement agency came along and
arrested these people, the third would function and so on down the
line until tlie five were exhausted, and by that time there would be a
fruitful result of this turmoil that he was speaking of at that time.
Mr. Scherer. They recognized, then, the possible illegality of their
actions and their organization in setting up such an organization?
Mr. Wereb. They never doubted for one moment that they were an
illegal and a revolutionary group, sir. If they thought for one moment
that any member in that group did not have revolutionary ideas or
was not progressing well enough in his Marxist teaching or his revolu-
tionary tendencies, he did not stay very long. The party would man-
age to bounce him or kick him out.
Mr. Doyle. As I understand it, right here in Los Angeles, in Haw-
thorne and other places, these Communist meetings and classes which
you attended, this doctrine and philosoplw which you have related was
openly taught in secret meetings ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right, sir.
Mr. Doyle. What year was that?
Mr. Wereb. That was in August of 1946. I have that. I also have
other classes to that effect, sir.
Mr. Doyle. That was a year and a half or 2 years after Earl
Browder was kicked out of the control of the American Communist
Party because he believed that the two systems of economy could get
65500— 55— pt. 4 2
1790 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
along side by side in the world. Didn't you ever hear anyone object
to that sort of philosophy?
Mr. Wereb. That they should get along ?
Mr. DovLE. No, this revolutionary philosophy. Didn't any of the
American citizens present there ever object to that sort of instruction?
Mr. Wereb. Mr. Doyle, with all apologies to this committee, I do
not believe a Communist could be a citizen of this country because I do
not believe that his allegiance would be strong enough to call himself
a citizen, sir.
Mr. Doyle. I agree with you, but then I am asking you now the
c{uestion : Did you ever hear any American citizen object to this sort of
teaching in any of these meetings ?
Mr. Wereb. No, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Not even question them ?
Mr. Wereb. No, sir; just as to procedure sometimes.
Mr. Doyle. Was that the procedure whereby they were teaching
that it would be necessary to arm sometimes, use arms and force?
Mr. Wereb. In order to use arms and force to shoot people, includ-
ing workers, to have bloodshed you must have arms. The source of
arms I never was told where it would come from, just how it would
come about. I was never given that information, but I am sure there
were others who did have that information. Do you want me to go
on further with these classes, sir ?
Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you a question at that point. You spoke
of Elizabeth Glenn being one of the instructors sent down from a
higher level of the Communist Party. You have told us of the nature
of the instructions she gave you. Can you tell us anything further
about the instruction that she gave your group ?
Mr. Wereb. P^lizabeth Leich Glenn taught a series of different
classes. I mentioned to you the last, the most outstanding of all, and
she of course taught Marxism, Leninism, the works of Stalin, wages
and price, and actions of labor in strife. This is the type of education
she taught. There were others that taught something different, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Very w^ell. Proceed.
Mr. Wereb. We had another series of classes at the home of Dan
McComb. M-c-C-o-m-b, I believe. I would have to see the spelling.
This man I knew to be a good jNIarxist, a good Commie. He worked
hard for the party, and he also served as chairman of the Hawthorne
Communist group and at his home we had a series of classes that was
taught by a person named Harry Hay. This man Hay also identified
himself to the group as being sent to our club as a teacher of ISIarxism-
Leninism by the county educational committee. He said that he was
from the Eagle Rock district, and he also was an active Communist for
a long time. This man spoke of the American system of elections
whereby the American elections are just not right; they couldn't be —
it is a Fascist-like election system and it could not serve the masses.
He taught that the Communist Party had a plan. For example, he
would say the maritime union. He said, "Now th^ re is a good example
for you."
Mr. ScHERER. What type of elections did he propose ?
Mr. Wereb. The general elections of representatives like yourself,
sir. Government elections.
Mr. SciiERER. What type of elections did he pro])ose ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1791
Mr. Wereb. I am coming to that, sir. He said that you take your
maritime union, for example, as a group. Those people are not in port
most of the time. They are absent. Therefore, some of the absentee
ballots never get in. What the party proposed at that time was to have
one man of the Communist Party vote as a block for the maritime
union. They questioned him somewhat as to the [)0ssibility of that,
and he said that many places in the Soviet Union or in countries where
they have a Bolshevik government such practices are common. In
other words, instead of having the workers always come in and vote,
they have one man cast the ballot for them as a blanket ballot. That
was one of the series of classes. I have more.
Mr. ScHERER. Did they advocate any other system of voting?
Mr. Wereb. Tliat system whereby one man votes for a group.
Mr. Scherer. Did they advocate the proportional representation
system of voting ?
Mr. Wereb. That was a Fascist idea.
Mr. Scherer. Proportional representation ?
Mr. Wereb. In other words, if you took a man from a certain dis-
trict because he represented that district, that was not any good ; that
was a reactionary idea. But as one man, they would manage to pick
and appoint and elect. Is that what you had reference to^
Mr. Scherer. No, I do not think you quite understand what I mean
by proportional representation system of voting, so I will just with-
draw the question.
Mr. Wereb. All right.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask one question along a different line ? I do not
know what your answer may be because I have never discussed it w4th
you. What did you see, if anything, in activity for or with children
and young people, the teen-age in Los Angeles County ? Did you come
in toucli with that phase of the activities of the Communist Party? If
so, what did you learn ?
Mr. Wereb. The oidy phase of that I know, sir, is that they had one
man by the name of Mayer Frieden.
Mr. Doyle. How do you spell his last name ?
Mr. Wereb. F-r-i-e-d-e-n, I believe. The Mayer would be phonetic,
M-e-y-e-r or M-a-y-e-r, I would not know. He had charge of the youth
group at that time. Young Communist league, which became Ameri-
can Youth for Democracy. They tossed it around for some other
name. I visited their office once or twice, but I do not recall that I —
I was too busy with other assignments to get into the youth group, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Our hearings all over the country show they very ac-
tively endeavored to get activity among American youth and interest.
In fact they established camps known as a pioneer group to counteract
the influence of the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.
Mr. Wereb. That is true, because they were asked — I remember that
they impressed the classes, especially on members, to have their chil-
dren— at that time their policy was a little different. They would
shift their policy at wil] any way they liked. At that time the policy
was to get them into the YMCxl, YWCA, church groups — any grou])s
whereby they could influence. In fact, we, the senior members of the
oro^anization, also were requested to do so regardless of under what
guise. It did not make any difference.
We had a man by the name of George Sandy. He was a full-time
functionary for the party, I guess during the WPA days and up. This
1792 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
man and I had personal meetings. At the county offices we had
meetings together. He met with our group a number of times, and
he said, "Now you Commvmists, you have got one job to do — it does
not make a bit of difference under what guise — you get into the general
public, get there. If you have to pick on a sewer bond issue, pick on
it : go from house to house. Don't tell them you are a Communist, tell
them you are a citizen and you are interested, until you are well enough
known whereby you can run for city council or wliatever office that the
public might think that you are lit for." And that was the program
at one time.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much. I must not take more of the
counsel's time.
Mr. Tavenner. That is all right, Mr. Chairman ; it helps develop
the picture.
You were describing these various classes which you attended. I
believe you said there were still others.
Mr. Wereb. Yes; there were. If you will excuse me a moment, I
do have one more I jotted down here that I would like to call the com-
mittee's attention to, to one other class here.
Elizabeth Leich Glenn had a series of classes with us and she spoke
of manpower. She said, "Well, it is hardly possible to recruit that
many men into the Communist Party or into a Communist group that
would be a strong manpower group." Therefore, she said, that the
party proposed to split this Nation into two nations, creating a nation
of the Negroes separate from the whites. This Negro nation who,
according to her words, were an oppressed group, would be very
easy prey or very easy subjects to this manpower proposition that they
had in mind.
Now she spoke of this at two separate classes, and all of a sudden it
disappeared. I don't know why, but I did read this in some other
Communist literature previous to that time. Somehow or other all of a
sudden a little fight over the thing and that was the last of it and we
could not follow it up. In my position you could not ask too many
questions ; you observed and partook in different things. This Negro
nation was a very serious move at one time in other clubs because I
knew other people in other clubs.
Mr. ScHERER. The Negroes in the Communist Party, and properly
so, immediately rose up against any idea of segregation. That was
just one of the reasons they immediately abandoned it.
Mr. Wereb. We had no Negroes in our gi-oup.
Mr. Scherer. That was the testimony, I believe, in San Francisco,
was it not?
Mr, Tavenner. We have had testimony in Washington, Milwaukee,
and a number of places on this subject. The estimate that Elizabeth
Glenn gave that the Negro people would be an easy prey was found
out not to be at all prophetic or correct. A great deal of evidence has
been introduced showing that they met no substantial measure of suc-
cess with the persons of the Negro race,
Mr. Scherer. The evidence is overwhelming that they resisted
attempts to infiltrate groups almost better than any other group.
Mr. Tavenner. That is correct. In many areas that has been the
burden of the testimony.
Mr. Wereb. May I add this, Mr. Doyle, that the Negroes that I
know and have known over the period of years in the city of Los An-
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1793
geles were all fine, upstanding citizens. With the exception of very
few, say nine during my whole time of membership in the party — and
I don't think they stayed very long — I do not believe that I have known
any Negro or person of the Negro race who was a willing prey or would
accept such a policy at all. They were too busy trying to make their
own way and trying to better themselves.
Mr. DoTLE. I think it appropriate, perhaps, for me to just refer to
one paragraph at this point in view of the witness's testimony about
revolutionary methods. I read a couple of paragraplis of this decision
the other day. This is the decision of the United States of America v.
Title (17,368), civil opinion by the Honorable Judge of the Federal
Court in this very building on June 4, 1955, Leon E,. Yankwich, United
States District Judge, in wliich a defendant admitted he had been a
Communist and was a Communist, and lie introduced the constitution
of the Communist Party as part of his defense, by the way, to the court.
The court in this case said, among other things :
How anyone can find in them —
referring to the literature of the Communist Party used by the Ameri-
can Communist Party — ■
any advocacy of lawful means for effectuating the aims of communism or even
lip service to democratic institutions is beyond our comprehension, for there is
none. As appears more fully from other writings by Lenin which are in the
record, in one he states that the proletarian state can only be achieved "through
a violent revolution." This is repeated elsewhere.
The Sixth World Congress of the Commuui,'- 1 International's held in 1928 states
emphatically that Leninism is the dominant approach on that — "the overthrow
i)t capitalism is impossible without force, without armed uprising and proletarian
wars against the bourgeosie." This interpretation is adopted by Stalin, who
expresses it in this manner : "The dictatorship of the proletariat is a revo-
lutionary power based on the use of force against the bourgeosie."
I read that into the record and I repeat that which I have often re-
peated in this liearing au.d elsewhere: I do not see how any patriotic
American since 1914 or 1945 could possibly have been an active par-
ticipant in Communist cell meetings such as you attended, sir, without
knowing that the primary objective or intention, whenever it suited
tlieir convenience, was to build up a ])hilosophy that the American
working peo]ile were justified in using force against constitutional
government.
I repeat it now. I just have never understood how a patriotic
American could do that if he ever learned of that objective. The
court in this case says, and we know it, that the Connnunist literature
advocated that and still does.
Mr. Tavennek. Mr. Wereb, what positions have you held in the
Communist Party ?
jMr. Wereb. I held various ])ositions, sir. I was for a short time, as
I said, membership director and Peoples World director, press di-
rector, literature director; I was a functionary delegate to all the
functionaries conventions. I w^as a delegate to the Southwest indus-
ti'ial section and — gosh, it has been so long I almost have to look. It
was plenty. I was a member of the executive committee ; also district
manager Jfor the Peoples World in the Southwest section, sir.
Mr. Doyle. And all this time you were an FBI operator ?
Mr. Wereb. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Then I suppose you would be classified as a paid in-
former or stoolpigeon or something like that?
1794 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
^Ir. Wereh. I have been called that.
Mr. Doyle. I want to com])linieiit you for doing the job you did^
Avhether you were paid or not.
Mr. Wereb. Micjjht I add at this time, sir, that I never was ])aid a
salary by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I had, or rather I
would put out and j^ut all bills ahead of time, made donations out of
my own ])oc'ket to Communist drives, ])aper drives, the newspaper
drives, defense drives, out of my own |)ocket. I was reimbursed by
the Federal Bureau of Investigation after I had given a statement to
that eliect.
Mr. Doyle. ( )nly your expenses ?
Mr. Wereb. That is all, sir. I have Jiever received 10 cents worth of
salary at any time from anyone, sir.
]Mr. Doyle. We congratulate you more than ever if that is the case.
I sui)])osed you were paid a little sonnething for it.
Mr. Wereb. Well, I think my freedom, sir, and the honor of calling
myself an American citizen is pay enough.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Wereb, I "asked you at an earlier point in your
testimony what security measures were taken by the Connnunist Party
to make sure of you.
Mr. Wereb. At one time — I am tiying to hnd the exact time— two
people came to my home; one John HoustoiL I am trying to hnd the
name of the other ])erson. It was one evening, and I am very anxious
to give you the name of that person.
Just one second, sir. I have it among a lot of these notes here. Elsie
Monjar. At one time she also ran for city council. The Communist
label did not do so good.
Mr. Doyle. What city ?
Mr. Wereb. Los Angeles, sir. These two people came to my home
and said, "Pete, what are you doing in the party?" That is not a
very easy question to answer, especially when you know that you are
under a sham, you are living a life other than what you really believe
in. I made them explain just what they meant by it. I asked them
a ([uestion on a question.
I said, "John, do you have to be a bum to be a Communist?" That
question kind of backed him down a little bit. They wanted to know
all my progressive record, shall we say; again this bandied word of
])rogressivism. I told them a story that happened to me Avhen I was
a young boy. It was of no consequence, but it was a sales idea and
it AA-ent over. I invited them to examine my home, see if there were any
])olice or Federal Bureau of Investigation documents about. I just told
them how, gave them a real sad sob story. After them making me
promise an allegiance to the Communist Party and to the Soviet Union,
they left satisfied and I stayed on in my regular way. That was a
harrowing 2i/^ hours.
Mr. Tavenner. Was anv question raised about your wife ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, sir. One of the questions that did not seem to have
a satisfactory answer in their mind was why my wife was not a Com-
munist. My" wife is a very good church member, a very devout person,
and it was 'a very hard tliing to think one up, so I said she had a very
serious nerve disorder, and therefore for the security of the party
in my judgment she should not be a member. That was accepted.
Now to give you a point of just how far they drove this security,
a person by the name of Bronson- Parrett and Fern Parrett, active
Communists
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES. CALIF., AREA 1795
Mr. Tavenxer. Spell it.
Mr. Wereb. P-a-r-r-o-t, I believe. I would have to check. Would
it be all right if I check ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; I think you should make certain as to the spell-
ing of the name.
Mr. Wereb. I will try the best I can, sir. He also was at one time
chairman of our group. P-a-r-r-e-t-t, B-r-o-n-s-o-n. His wife was
Fern Parrett. Now at one time he got into difficulty with the party.
Mr. Tavexxer. Just a moment. We understand that there may be
a little different spelling to that name.
Mr. Wereb. There might be, sir, but that is as close as I can give
at the present time. I still haven't found the name. Would you mind
i f I looked up the name and spelled it ?
Mr. Tavenxer. Yes : and you can give it to us.
Mr. Wereb. All right, sir. I tried to get these names correctly. I
have an awful lot of names here. P-a-r-r-e-t-t, Parrett. His wife.
Fern Parrett. This man got into a difficulty of some type with the
Communist leadership at the higher levels. He kept Avriting back to
the NeAv York office contiiuially and that was objected to bv the local
group here — that is, the county group. Therefore, he was tried by the
Communist security group and banned from the party. His "wife
stayed on. They approached his wife within a few davs of the time
1 hey approached me
Mr. Scherer. May I interrupt? Did you ever attend one of the
trials or hearings where members were barred ?
Mr. Wereb. I believe I have, yes, sir, but at this time I would like
to leave that for a little later because it would confuse this tliought
of mine.
Mr. Scherer. Go ahead.
Mr. Wereb. They went to this woman and told her that unless
she divorced her husband they would have to bounce her from the
party or kick her out. The woman being a real Communist, as she
called herself, did divorce her husbancL That was not the only
mstance. There were many instances like it where they thought
that the security of the party was affected bv both man' and wife
not being members ; and if both did not wish to be members, none
of them could be members.
Mr. Doyle. In other words, if both did not want to become mem-
bers of the conspiracy, break up the home ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right, sir.
Mr. DoYLE. And the home is the most important unit we have in
our Nation of people.
Mr. Wereb. That is right.
Mr. Doyle. Break them up for the sake of the Communist Party.
That is their philosophy, if need be, to further their conspiratorial
aims, dastardly objectives.
Mr. Wereb. I believe at one time, to answer vour question, Con-
gressnian, that I attended a meeting— I did not get into all of the
meeting because someone called me out as to the progress of the
Peoples World drive. At that time I believe it was one Alice Ward.
She called me out. At that time they were trying one Lou — a man
from Watts. I believe he also appeared in a number of Smith cases.
I am trying to place his last name but it slips mv mind a second.
I did attend one of tho.se farce trials, a cut and "dried affair. He
1796 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
was an enemy of the workers— they classified him so. Secret litera-
ture was made up to the effect and it was dispatched to each club
that no one should speak, contact him in any wa}'^, shape, manner,
or form on any business because he had contact with the Federal
Bureau of Investigation or the police department or that he was an
enemy of the working classes, and that was that.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that individual's name Lou Rosser?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, sir. I know the man by seeing him. I did not
recall his name, but that is an outstanding event.
Mr. ScHERER. Lou Rosser was blacklisted from obtaining any
employment in certain areas, was he not, or am I wrong?
Mr. Tavenner. I do not believe I should comment on it.
Mr. Scherer. I remember his testimony very well.
Mr. Doyle, Was not Mr. Rosser a Negro ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right, sir.
Mr. Scherer. He was prevented from getting employment, he testi-
fied, because of his breaking with the party. They attempted to dis-
credit him with even non-Communist employers. I remember the
testimony very well.
Mr. Tavenner. I failed to ask you a question I intended to ask
you. When you were discussing these educational classes which you
attended — I want to go back and pick it up — you told the committee
about instruction that was received when Mr. Harry Hay came to
your club as a teacher sent from the educational commission of the
Communist Party. I am not sure whether j^ou told us where that
meeting was held.
Mr. Wereb. That meeting was held on Yukon Street at the home
of Dan and Eleanor McComb. That was their home. The whole
series of classes held by this Harry Hay was conducted at that ad-
dress,
Mr. Tavenner. The question I failed to ask you is: Who were
present at that meeting, if you can recall ?
Mr. Wereb. I would again have to refer to my notes, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Very well, sir.
Mr. Wereb. By the way, these are my own notes.
Mr. Tavenner. When I ask who were present, I mean what persons
as members of the Communist Party were present.
Mr. Wereb. Yes, sir ; I will be happy to give you that. There were
John Houston, Vernon Potter, Jack Karson, Edith Smith. Lou Stark,
Mike Gorman, G-o-r-m-a-n. John Baldo, B-a-1-d-o; Ed Fitzgerald;
Lillian Frong; Laura Lee Musick, M-u-s-i-c-k; Edwin Hagen,
H-a-g-e-n ; Dan McComb ; Ellen Taylor, also known as Mary Rankin.
At the present time I believe that is all I have as to that school.
Mr. Tavenner. Are the spellings which you have given phonetic
spellings?
Mr. Wereb. Some may be, sir, but some are not. Some of the spell-
ings I have which are correct would be the spellings that I have taken
wliile I was membershi]:) — that is, the Peoples World district manager.
Therefore, I would have to have some type of a spelling which was near
correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you give a phonetic spelling for the name
Laura T^ee Musick?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1797
Mr. Wereb. I believe that would be spelled M-ii-s-i-c-k, but as I say,
some of the spellings in my mind are j^honetic, sir, and they are very,
very hard to place at the present time as to the exact spelling. I will
try my very best and honest best to give you the nearest I possibly can.
Mr. Tavenxer. We want to be as accurate about it as we can. The
name Edwin Hagen, as to the spelling of that name, I am wondering
whether it is a phonetic spelling you were giving or whether it was
what you thought was the true spelling of the name.
Mr. Wereb. That was a true spelling as far as I knew because Mr.
Hagen came to my home a number of times and I have read a number
of letters that were addressed to him by tliat name. Therefore, I just
copied that, and that is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Let us see if we can give some further identifying
facts about that individual.
Mr. Wereb. Edwin Hagen was a refugee from Germany, a Com-
munist-banned refugee. He was banned into Holland, and Holland I
guess deported him as an undesirable. They deported him to Sweden.
These are all according to his stories to me which were verified by his
wife wliom I met at one time and they laughed over it. Then Sweden
deported him to Canada. He stayed a very short time in Canada and
lie was deported into Mexico and from Mexico he came to this country,
and under what circumstances I never did find out, sir.
Mr. Tavexner. Do you know wliere he lived ?
Mr. Wereb. I have been to his home at that time. Of course, he no
longer lives there. He lived in Inglewood. He was also a very, very
close friend of
Mr. Tavenner. I would not speak of other persons unless those other
persons were members of the Communist Party.
Mr. Wereb. They are members of the Communist Party. In other
words, she was the head of the Communist Party at the time of Hagen's
last disappearance and that was — she was one of the Smith cases with
Schneiderman. That was Dorothy Healy. I met him a number of
times at her home.
Mr. Tavenner. Now you have told us that this group of the Com-
munist Party to which you were assigned was the Hawthorne group.
Mr. Wereb. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, who were the
officers of that group from time to time as far as you can now recall ?
Mr. Wereb. Would it be permissible to read that ? I had that pre-
pared because it is hard from memory to remember all the names.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that statement you have a statement which you
made at the time of your reports to the Federal Bureau of Investiga-
tion?
Mr. Wereb. That is correct, sir. These are all bona fide accepted
names as Commvuiists whom I have known and met at closed Com-
inunist Party meetings and Communist functions and classes and func-
tionary meetings. These people could not have attended any of these
doings unless they were members in good standing in the Communist
Party.
Mr. Doyle. Right at that point, were these meetings conducted
under such circumstances that those people would realize they were
secret meetings ?
1798 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may I call your attention— my ques-
tion was as to who were the officials at this point. Later I will want
to come to that question.
Mr. Doyle. I withdraw my question at present.
Mr. Wereb. Would it be iDermissible if I read these names to you ?
Mr. Tavenner. I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that he be per-
mitted to examine the list he prepared to refresh his recollection.
Mr. Doyle. Yes, indeed. These were made in a prompt manner
after the meeting ?
Mr. Wereb. That is correct.
Mr. Doyle. For the purpose of your day-to-day record to the FBI ?
Mr. Wereb. That is correct.
Mr. Doyle. This is a record of your own original memorandum
you made ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Certainly it would be good in any court.
Mr. Tavenner. Before you begin that, it may be well to consider
taking the usual recess.
Mr. Doyle. The committee will stand in recess 5 minutes.
(Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)
(Representatives Doyle, Scherer, and Moulder present after the
recess. )
Mr. Doyle. Let us proceed. T^t the record show that 3 members
of the subcommittee of 4 are present and therefore a legal quorum is
here— Mr. Scherer, of Ohio, Mr. Moulder, of Missouri, and Mr. Doyle,
of Los Angeles.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you now proceed to tell the committee who
were the officers of the Hawthorne Club of the Communist Party
during the period that you were a member of it ?
Mr. Wereb. I am trying to find that, sir. I had that here, and to
the best of my recollection we have had John Houston
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment.
Mr. Wereb. Do you want the officers ?
Mr. Ta\t:nner. "Yes; the officers first. Is John Houston the same
person that you referred to earlier in your testimony ^
Mr. Wereb. Th^t is correct, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Is the correct spelling of his last name H-o-u-s-t-o-n ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I think, Mr. Chairman, Ijecaiise of the similarity of
names, although there is a difference in spelling, the record should
plainly show that this is not John Huston, H-u-s-t-o-n.
Mr.' Doyle. That is correct, Mr. Counsel. The committee appreci-
ates your being careful, just like you always are.
Mi". Tavenner. Very well, if you will proceed, please.
Mr. Wereb. William Kellas, also chairman; Dan McComb, chair-
man ; Edith Smith, membership secretary and dues secretary. They
are the same, only known under different names. Literature agent,
Ola Pacifico, Eleanor Taylor.
Mr. Tavenner. Spell the name, please.
Mr. Wereb. P-a-c-i-f-i-c-o, O-l-a. Eleanor Taylor. Also financial
director, Eleanor Taylor again. Marion Stark, educational director ;
Jack Karson, chairman.
Mr. Tavenner. How does he spell the name ?
Mr. Wereb. K-a-r-s-o-n.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1799
Mr. Moulder. In addition to the spelling of tlie name, can you give
further identification ?
Mr. Wereb. Tlie man at one time
Mr. Moulder. I mean as to any and all of those names. There may
be a dozen people by the same name when you name one. Where he
resided, his occupation.
Mr. Wekeb. Occupation was helper, and he was also em])loyed by
the board of education at one time as a truckdriver and later became
helper to his brother in the 'plumbing business.
Mr. Moulder. His approximate age ^
Mr. Wereb. He was approximately 40 years old at the time I knew
him, and also he was a lieutenant in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade
during the Spanish civil war, sir. He was a known Communist for
many, many years.
Mr. Moulder. Where did he reside at that time ?
Mr. Wereb. He resided in Hawthorne, Calif. I am no longer
familiar with the street addresses because there may be other people
living at those addresses at the present time and it might be embar-
rassing to some of those people. That is why I do not like to give
out street numbers, sir. These, to my recollection, were tlie officers
at different times, various periods during my 4 years as a party
member in Hawthorne and Inglewood.
Mr. Tavexxer. You have testified that you were a member of the
executive committee at one time.
Mr. AVereb. I was a member of the executive conunittee within 3
weeks of my party affiliation.
Mr. Tavexxi<:r. Will you tell the conunittee, please, who served on
the executive conunittee of the Hawthorne group of the Counnunist
Party with you ? And in giving their names, as suggested by a mem-
ber of the committee, it would be well for you to give us much identify-
ing information as you can recall so there will be no possible mistake
of identity of the individuals.
Mr. Wereb. Ola Pacifico. She was with the health department of
tlie county for a time and refused to take the loyalty oath and there-
fore she now is a private individual. Marion Stark, the wife of one
Lou Stark, of Hawthorne. Calif.
Dan McComb, worker in the airplane industry for a while, a barber,
n student, and Lord knows what else.
Edith Smith, a housewife and a bookkeeper for a short time with a
concern which I do not recall at this time.
Eleanor Taylor, a housewife of Inglewood.
Mike Gorman. Mike (lorman was a jack-of -all-trades, uiaster oi
none. He tried to repair clocks, radios. The last I heard, he never
made the grade on any of those. He was originally from New York.
Vernon L. Potter, a carpenter, for a time known as a contractor for
himself, too. He also lived in Hawthorne.
Louis Stark, the husband of Marion Stark, of the previously men-
tioned Hawthorne group.
Ed Hagen
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. You may as well identify at this
time, if you can, just what his activity was in the Communist Party,
if you can tell us.
Mr. Wereb. Louis Stark was a liaison man of the Communist Party
between the different political groups in our district, doing regional
1800 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
as well as municipal, county, or otherwise, and I believe, if I remember
correctly, he was at one time a member of the Democratic central com-
mittee. His job was not to be known as a Communist but act as, shall
we say^ — this is an unwelcome word — a liberal or a progressive repre-
senting those groups and acting as a liaison officer on anything that the
party wanted to put over or any candidate the party wished to put
over — any political program they might have had in mind which was
also always on issues, never general political. They never accepted
the Democrat or the Republican or the other principles in toto. They
always picked on the issue and played the issue up because they
thought that was the easiest key to the door they finally wanted to
open.
Mr. Moulder. May I interrupt? You say you believe he was a
member of the Democratic central committee. Do you know posi-
tively of your own personal knowledge he was ?
Mr. Wereb. I believe I have read that, sir, but I never saw him
there.
Mr. Moulder. You do not know, you just heard it ?
ISIr. Wereb. I read it.
Mr. Moulder. Read it where ?
jSIr. Wereb. I read it in the circulars that were put out by different
election committees and different drive committees of different parties.
1 have seen his name on it, and he also reported to us in person at the
party that he was a member of the Democratic central committee of
that district.
Mr. Moulder. What period was that ?
Mr. Wereb. That was the period of 1945, 1946, 1947, sir ; latter part
of 1945. I am sorry, I do not mean to take any political party because
T do not want — it is just an instance I wish to use there as he used to
further himself and the party progi'am, I do not wish to be disre-
spectful to any political party, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether at a subsequent date he be-
came active in any other political group ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, he did. He became very active in the Independent
Progressive Party, the IPP. I never was a member, so I would not
know.
Mr. Tavenner. Can j'ou tell the committee of any action that was
taken by the Communist Party at any of its meetings regarding the
Independent Progressive Party ?
]\Ir. Wereb. For a time the Communist Party tried to run candi-
dates of their own. For instance, Archie Brown ran for governor of
the State, and I do not believe anybody saw it outside of the party.
I do not believe he got any more votes than the party. So the Com-
munist Party decided that a third party was necessary, that it is im-
perative; they cannot run it as a Communist Party because it would
not be acceptable to the average liberal group. Therefore, they de-
cided that they would have another party. This party at the time was
not identified. Later it became known by the literature that was
brought to the club by this Lou Stark that the IPP was a constituted
political party, and he was very active in this group. That is about
all I can tell tell you on that, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Very well. If you will proceed with your
Mr. Wereb. Pardon me. Just one more addition to that. It was
with party approval and it was a party "must'' tliat every member
COAIjVIUNIST activities in the LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1801
go out and distribute all the literature, attend all IPP meetings; it
was a "must." In other words, the hands were asked for at every club
meeting which were closed Communist meetings, how many were
going and how many were not. Somebody that did not raise their
hands had to have a pretty good excuse, such as work or no one to
leave the baby with or something of that sort in order not to partici-
pate in any of the IPP drives — mobilizations, call it whatever you
like.
Mr. Tavenner. Now will you proceed in your description of the
membership of the executive committee of the Hawthorne Club?
Mr. Wereb. We had this Ed Hagen as a member of the executive
conmiittee. For a very short time we had a man named Earl Kelly
from the Reclondo group and a jNIickey Johnson who was very active
in the El Segundo group, which also was part of the Hawthorne-
Inglewood general group.
Bert Coffee, C-o-f-f-e-e. He was known as an organizer of the
oil workers; also came with credentials of the Communist Party to
the executive meeting and became part of the executive committee at
the time they had the strike at the Standard Oil Co. at El Segundo.
He directed, with the assistance of the rest of the Communist group,
the activities, the literature distribution, the picket line walking ; and
the progress of the strike was also directed by him.
Mr. Tavenner. You testified at some length regarding his activity
in the hearings at San Diego last year, I believe.
Mr. Wereb. I did, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Does that complete the list of the executive
committee ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, of the executive committee, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you make a record of the membership of the
Hawthorne Club of the Communist Party during the period of your
work for the Federal Bureau of Investigation ?
Mr. Wereb. I certainly did, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you advise the committee, please, as to that
membership — but in doing so, let me ask you, to be certain that any
name yo uidentif}^, that you do it on the basis of your own personal
knowledge of their membership on the Communist Party.
Mr. Wereb. Do you want me to read the names now ?
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. And in making such identification,
give us such descriptive information of the individual as you can so
that should there be another person of a similar name or the same
name, that description you would give would properly identify the
person you are speaking of.
Mr. Wereb. I will try that, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. All right.
Mr. Wereb. Membership of the Ilawthorne-Inglewood, El Segundo,
Redondo Beach, and bay area groups, official membership that I have
seen numbers for which I cannot give you at this time, I do not have
those numbers, but these parties' membership cards I have seen with
my own eyes and I have seen these people at different Communist
meetings.
Mr. Tavenner. Communist meetings, what type of Communist
meetings ?
Mr. Wereb. Closed meetings and closed meetings only.
Mr. Doyle. How do you know they were closed meetings ?
1802 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Wereb. Being a member of tlie executive committee, I believe
I had something to do with it that we had riothing but Communists in
that meeting or if it was a functionaries meeting, sir, it was up to the
credentials committees and those governing the attendance to see to it
that everyone had proper credentials before entering any of these
meetings. There were no liaphazard accounts of an}' of these names.
Mr. Tavenner. All right, sir.
Mr. Wereb. ()];if Johnson, an elderly man employed by the Navy
Department at Seattle, a Avarehouseman, lived near me in Inglewood.
Lillian Frong, F-r-o-n-g, a houscAvife, in the Westchester area, I
believe.
Lawrence Pacifico, ex-soldier — that I know — and went to school out
at the college, El Camino College, as a student under the GI bill.
Nathan Strout, an elderly man, a violin teacher. S-t-r-o-u-t.
Gene Chriss, a member of the New York group of the Communist
Party, of the San Joaquin Valley group aiid hnally the Los Angeles-
Hawthorne and El Segundo group.
Mr. Tavenner. You gave the spelling of the last name earlier, but
AY ill you giA^e it again ?
Mr. Wereb. C-h-r-i-s-s, G-e-n-e. Gene Chriss Avas also a P. W.
dire<?tor and district manager after the district Avas split up into a
number of groups.
Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean b}^ P. W. director?
Mr. Wereb. Peoples World director.
Sally Chriss, house AA'ife, his Avife. aaIio liA ed on Aviation BouleA^ard
as his Avife.
Dave Chriss: The father of Gene Chriss, elderly man.
Barney Frong : An aviation Avorker.
Pauline Sullivan : Redondo Beach, a houseAvife,
Da\^e Belt, B-e-l-t : A contract cesspool digger.
Ida Karson, K-a-r-s-o-n : Tlie wife of Jack Karson, the man I spoke
of as being a lieutenant in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade.
Adrienne Fein, F-e-i-n : A houseAvife, A^ery actiA'e in another organi-
zation known as the IWO.
Mr. Tavenner. Is the first name Adrienne, or is that Mrs. Adrian ?
Mr. Wereb. That is Mrs. Adrienne. I want to apologize for omit-
ting this. In the party we never call anybody Mr. or Mrs. and it is
natural for me to omit them. I am sorry.
Mr. Tavenner. The point I want to g:et clear is whether the first
name Adrian is tlie name of the husband or is it the AA'ife 's first name ?
Mr. Wereb. That is the AA'ife's first name.
Jack Good : Occupation unkiioAvn.
I. M. Tomren, T-o-m-r-e-n: This man Avas a retired old man, kind
of helpless, but a member.
Ruth Schorr, S-c-h-o-r-r, lived in another district. She Avas ver}^
actiA^e in a labor group somewhere.
Pat Ruso : A mystery character. He w^ould go and disappear and
come back and the club or group or county never seemed to ask Avhy.
He AA'as about 38 years old, and the only AA^ay I could identify him, he
Avas of Italian origin, I believe, and that is all.
Morrey Korngold. i\I-o-r-r-e-y K-o-r-n-g-o-l-d, a printer or print-
er's helper, of the Westchester area. His wife Rochelle Korngold,
R-o-c-h-e-l-l-e.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1803
Jules Tanzman, T-a-n-z-m-a-n : A merchant in surplus merchandise.
Mr. Moulder. Where ?
Mr. "Wereb. His residence was IngleAvood or Westchester, and his
business was located on Santa Fe Street in the 2600 block. He special-
ized in surplus aluminum.
Rudy Love : He was an indigent loafer here and there, and that is
all. He had no occupation or no connection whatsoever.
David B. Glass : The partner of Jules Tanzman in the same surplus
business.
Ellen McComb : Wife of Dan McComb, housewife.
Jerry Kramer, K-r-a-m-e-r: Aircraft Avorker, Westchester District.
Elsie ]\[ancar, M-a-n-c-a-r: Full-time employee of the United Mine,
Mill and Smelter I'nion as a secretary. Also, executive secretary to
the southwest section of the industrial section of the Los Angeles
County Communist Party.
Don Healy, former husband of Dorothy Healy.
Fern Parrett : The lady referred to as the person who had to divorce
her husband because of non-Communist membership after the dis-
charge of the man.
Laura Lee Musick
Mr. SciiERER. Pardon me. Do you know whether in that divorce
case that was mentioned as a ground for divorce ?
Mr. Wereb. Xot in the United States courts, I do not believe, but
in the Communist trial it was. You see, she was tried by a special
committee giving her tlie choice of either staying in the party, sir, or
divorcing her husband. That still is a trial and a security trial known
by the Communists as such.
Mr. Scherer. I was referring to the divorce court.
Mr. Wereb. I do not believe our local courts would accept that.
Mr. Doyle. You mean the Communist cell of which you were or
one of the committees
Did you ever hear any Communist Party member in a Communist
Party trial or meeting claim that he did not have to testify because
it might incriminate him ?
Mr. Wereb. No, sir; there is no such a thing in the Communist
Party, sir.
Mr. DoYLE. Xo such thing as declining
Mr. Wereb. That is a dictatorship in toto.
Mr. DoYLE. There is no such thing as having the constitutional
l^rivilege in the Communist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. There is no constitutional privilege.
Mr. Doyle. They are American citizens most of them.
Mr. Moulder. Every one understands that. You say you were not
there and you do not personally have any knowledge of this occurrence
other than by hearsay?
Mr. Wereb. I have a person also at that trial by the name of Mickey
Johnson who came to me and said she was a member of that investi-
gative or whatever trial bodyj and she told me so.
Mr. Moulder. I am not trying to discredit you or c^uestion whether
or not that occurred, but it is just bringing up the proposition that
you did not know it yourself.
Mr. Doyle. My question was directed because I Avanted to know the
method they used in Communist Party trials.
1804 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Moulder. He says he was not there. I do not know how he
would know.
Mr. Wereb. I sat through 2i/^ hours of one of those trial ordeals by
John Houston and Elsie Mancar, and I need not be anywhere else to
know what goes on. With me it was just like anybody else, no different.
When it came to party security and party progress, no one stood in the
way, whether it was Browder or whoever. It did not make any differ-
ence. It was the party or else.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you.
Mr. Wereb. Where did I stop on the last name ?
Mr. Tavenner. Don Healy, I believe, was the last name.
Mr. Wereb. He was the ex-husband of one Dorothy Healy, a Smith
Act case.
Fern Parrett is the woman I just referred to.
Laura Lee Musick : A housewife, M-u-s-i-c-k.
Barney Frong : I believe he was an aircraft worker.
Marion Hart : I saw her card, but I do not recall what her occupa-
tion was.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether she has another name?
Mr. Wereb. I believe most of those people had another name, but I
do not recall just at the present moment.
Mr. Tavenner. All right.
Mr. Wereb. Alice Elconin, wife of a union organizer of some type.
I do not know, but I think he was connected with the Electrical
Workers Union or something. Alice Elconin — she was recruited by
Ruth Schorr, and this took place at the home of Morrey and Rochelle
Korngold in the early part of 1947. That is the only way I can identify
the lady.
Mr. Tavenner. What is the spelling of the last name ?
Mr. Wereb. E-1-c-o-n-i-n.
Mr Tavenner. Would that membership have been during the period
of World War II?
Mr. AVereb. I believe World War II was over in 1947.
Mr. Tavenner. I did not understand ; I thought you said it began
earlier.
Mr. Wereb. Early part of 1947 at the home of Morrey Korngold
and Rochelle Korngold.
Mr. Tavenner. I misunderstood the date.
Mr. Wereb. Processed and brought to the meeting by one Ruth
Schorr.
Byron Taylor, a merchant marine.
Floyd Wallace: I believe he was an auto mechanic, husband of
Shevey Wallace, a f ulltime Los Angeles County Communist Party em-
ployee. S-h-e-v-e-y — I believe that is the spelling.
§ybil Ward, an aircraft worker.
Chai:les C. Watkins, retired mailman. He delivered mail m that
district.
Mrs. Mel Wilkerson, housewife.
Blanche Zamudio, a member in the east side ; Z-a-m-u-d-i-o.
Ed Bodner : I do not recall too much of the man at the present time
or his occupation. I may later on.
Mr. Tavenner. What is the spelling of the last name ?
Mr. Wereb. I believe it is B-o-d-n-e-r.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1805
Steve Adams, for a while an aircraft worker, later engaged in busi-
ness for himself in machinist work.
Rose Mary Bennick, B-e-n-n-i-c-k, housewife.
John Biluk, B-i-1-u-k. I think he is an aircraft worker.
Gary Cain, president. I do not know what his trade or what he was.
Alice Cantu, C-a-n-t-u, housewife.
Wayne Cantu.
Mel Christiansen : I do not recall what his connection was, but he
was in the district in the Hawthorne-Inglewood group.
Leo Clark, insurance salesman.
Araby Colton, C-o-l-t-o-n, A-r-a-b-y ; housewife. For a while em-
ployed at one of the aircraft companies.
Victor Colton, her husband ; shipyard worker.
Edith Dexter, housewife ; Inglewood district.
Mansell Dexter : lie was a mechanic of some type.
Louis Emery, E-m-e-r-y.
Mr. Tavenner. Which spelling of Louis is used ?
Mr. Wereb. L-o-u-i-s.
Herb Evans, industrial worker in the Hawthorne group.
Ruth Evans, housewife. That is his wife.
Pen Vandervoort, P-e-n, V-a-n-d-e-r-v-o-o-r-t, private secretary.
Susan Vandervoort, wife ; same spelling. Housewife.
I believe I have here a little addition of a few more names.
Sam Fujimoto, F-u-j-i-m-o-t-o. I think he was a truck gardener.
Florence Goldman, Inglewood district ; transferee from the Young
Communist League.
George Hawks, a shipyard worker ; H-a-w-k-s.
Wenzel Lehr, W-e-n-z-e-1, L-e-h-r, industrial worker. I believe he
was in the Hawthorne district there.
Gerda Leiva, G-e-r-d-a, L-e-i-v-a, an elderly lady living alone in, I
believe, Redondo or the next town further, I guess, Manhattan district.
Carl Pekstan, C-a-r-1, P-e-k-s-t-a-n; occupation unknown.
Frank Phiell'er, P-h-i-e-f-f-e-r. I do not know his occupation, but
he was of the Inglewood district.
Earl Pinkston, Westchester district ; P-i-n-k-s-t-o-n.
Ruth Smith, housewife ; f ulltime Communist.
Mr, Moulder. May I intervene here? As an illustration of what
I had in mind a while ago, I venture to say probably in the great
metropolitan area of Los Angeles there are very likely 15 or 20 people
by the name of Ruth Smith, a housewife. The naming and publica-
tion of that name will be a reflection upon each of them unless there is
some definite
Mr. Wereb. Hawthorne district. I referred to Edith Smith, Ruth
Smith — same family, same group, same occupation as far as com-
munism was concerned. I believe at one time she was an Army nurse.
I believe that; I do not know that to be a fact. Daughter of Edith
Smith. I met her and I knew her to be — I went to Edith Smith's
home on the average of twice a week for the period of 3 or 4 years,
and I believe I would know her.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you locate the home ?
Mr. Wereb. I think the number was, if you must have it
Mr. Doyle. Without giving the number, give the general location.
Somebody else may live there now.
65500— 55— pt. 4 3
1806 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Wereb. It was in Imperial and Hawthorne Boulevard district,
in the immediate vicinity of.
Peggy Vaughn, a schoolteacher, V-a-u-g-h-n.
Tony Talon, T-a-1-o-n, industrial aircraft worker of some type.
This was the membership of the Hawthorne Communist group, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You referred to a person by the name of Vaughn.
What was her first name ?
Mr. Wereb. Peggy. That was her party name, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. That was her party name ?
Mr. Wereb. That was the name that I knew her by. At the time
I knew her, the party did not exactly ban the correct names unless
it was for some activity that the party did not want you to be known in.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us further identifying information
relating to her ?
Mr. Wereb. She was a schoolteacher in the Los Angeles Board of
Education District. She was a person about 5 foot, if I recall right.
She had light chestnut hair; weighed, I would say, a hundred five
pounds. She was very active in Communist circles as to education.
She was very much displeased with the changeover of the Communist
Party of America, to the phony we had there at one time known
as the Communist Political Association. When that change came
she transfered from our group to what is known — they cut the gi'oups
up into language groups; they cut them into industrial groups; they
cut them into shop groups; they cut them into teachers, artists, dif-
ferent union groups. Then I lost track of her after that, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. That is adequate.
Mr. Wereb. That was the total membership, to the best of my
knowledge, of the Hawthorne-Inglewood and bay area Communist
groups. These are taken from my own notes that I have saved over
a period of time that I was with the Federal Bureau of Investigation
as their undercover man.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. Yes, Mr. Moulder.
Mr. Moulder. The spirit in which I question you is not at all in
the spirit of doubting your testimony or anything that you have
said as to be the exact truth as you have testified to it, but the pur-
pose of it is this: The question which I wish to ask you is this:
You have named approximately how many people?
Mr. Wereb. Approximately a hundred in that group, sir.
Mr. Moulder. A hundred people as liaving been affiliated and ac-
tively affiliated with the Communist Party and its activities over a
certain period of time. Each of those parties named will be published
in the newspapers, are going to be, revealed in that light with great
injury to themselves wherever they may reside, doing great damage
to them and their reputation, just as severely as if they had been tried
in a court of law and convicted. To a degree, that is the result.
Now, you have stated that each one of those that you have named'
was in attendance at closed party meetings. Can you state the time
and place as to each one of those persons and the occasion that you
recall when they did so attend and to what degree they did partici-
pate in Communist Party functions and affairs ?
Mr. Wereb. I believe, sir, that I have separated those who were in
the executive meetings. Executive meetings were held every week of
the year, sir. Then membership meetings were held every other week..
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1807
Some groups met once a month. It would be humanly impossible to
take each and every one of these people, sir, and put them into any
special one meeting unless tliere was any special activity whereby their
names stood out in my mind or stood out as to they have acted in a
violent manner, taught or advocated personally those instances — yes, I
probably could give you time and dates on those. But these other
general memberships, sir, it would be humanly impossible to place
these people at different meetings.
Mr. Moulder. Were the meetings held at different places ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Moulder. At those meetings, did you record the names of thc^e
present from which you now present the names before this committ'.(^?
Mr. Wereb. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Moulder. You took notes during the meetings or immediately
after the meetings ?
Mr. Wereb. I did, sir.
Mr. Moulder. AVhichway?
Mr. Wereb. Sometimes mental, sometimes match covers, sometimes
back of Peoples World. I can say that I have a fairly good memory,
sir, and when the meeting was over and when I delivered my charges —
I had to pick up a number of indigents who had no transportation,
delivered them home — I searched my mind just like I was on trial,
who was there. That one thing, I did not know who else was checking
up on me, too. Therefore, I could not possibly make a mistake because
someone would call me on it in a hurry or say, Who Avas such and such
person ?
I do not believe during the 4 years or over I have acted in that
capacity that I have made an error because there were a number of
others who would check on others, too. I was not the only one. There-
fore, say the police department had their intelligence men there and
they do compare notes, you know ; I didn't, but they do. Therefore, it
was very important to me that I would minimize rather than exag-
gerate.
Mr. Moulder. I am sure of that. Now you say each of those per-
sons named attended regularly at closed Communist Party meetings.
Mr. Wereb. Over the period of 4 years; yes, sir. There was no one
person outside of probably myself that attended every meeting. The
only meeting I missed during that period, sir, was a time I had very
serious surgery and I had to miss it because I could not possibly go
that way. But outside of that, I made sure there was no such thing. I
never went to bed any morning until a full report was written out
while fresh in my mind from the notes and no chance for error and no
chance for dreaming overnight that did not happen. Sometimes I did
not get to bed before 4 or 5 o'clock in the morning, and that is what
broke my health, I put in so much time. I would go to the embassy,
150 names of people present, or at the Shrine auditorium or any doings
at 2200, which is a favorite haunt.
Mr. Moulder. The testimony now before the committee has just
covered the Hawthorne area ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right, just the Hawthorne area. I got more.
Mr. Tavenner. You submitted the reports that you prepared of each
meeting to the Federal Bureau of Investigation ?
Mr. Wereb. I did, sir.
1808 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. I understand you to say that other people were
doing the same thing.
Mr. Wereb. Possibly. I did not know any, but possibly there were
because I do not really believe the Federal Bureau of Investigation
would rely on just one person, or the sheriff's office or the police
department. They probably did not even know I existed. But these
were all persons whose names I have given you, sir, who were at
closed Communist functions and meetings where no one else can appear
but Communists in good standing as far as the Communist Party is
concerned.
Mr. Moulder. I think you have made a very careful and accurate
ref;ord.
Mr. Wereb. I was very careful about it because I was very conscious
of the fact that people did not get smeared, and it is something — words
you can say, you can never take back. It is just like water ; if you spill
water, you can never pick it up.
Mr. Moulder. I believe you have performed your duty very care-
fully.
Mr. Wereb. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask one question of this witness before we adjourn
for luncheon ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. You have testified, both in your orignial statement and
then in answers to my question and others, that definitely there was
revolutionary propaganda and program spoken of by these instructors
at these classes who came to your group from the county educa-
tional level. Then I questioned you as to whether or not that included
statements by these instructors from the county level of the Com-
munist Party that there would be force necessary eventually to over-
throw the capitalistic system.
Now, up until the time you left the party, did you ever hear any
instructor from the county" level or any other level in the Communist
Party tell your cell when you were present that they had changed their
revolutionary line ? In other words, did they stop teaching that func-
tion?
Mr. Wereb. To a peaceful line ?
Mr. Doyle. Yes.
Mr. Wereb. No, sir. The works of Lenin, if anyone has read, and
I was compelled to read some of it, sir, the works of Lenin will tell
you the method of revolution, sir ; the method of violence.
Mr. Doyle. I know that, sir.
Mr. Wereb. They cannot practice anything, but Marxism teaches
you what, Leninism tells you how to — how to force it.
Mr. Doyle. You attended meetings almost every week or so. Any-
one attending the meetings which you attended of the Communist
Party, the closed meetings in the Hawthorne-Inglewood area, more or
less during the period which you attended — what is your answer to
the question whether or not it 'would have been possible, or probable,
put it that way — would have been probable that any adult attending
those meetings in that cell such as you attended over that period of 3
or 4 years could possibly have attended more or less regularly without
hearing instruction that sooner or later there would be force and
violence needed ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1809
Mr. Wereb. It would be impossible for this reason, sir, not to hear,
because when you joined the Communist Party, sir, you were sent to
a Marxist class of some type, whether club level or downtown level,
and therefore they would teach you this tenet. In other words, this
creed they teach it to you ; and if you attend Communist Party meet-
ings more than 3 or 4 times, unless you are a — pardon the expression —
nitwit, you could not help but know it was a revolutionary group that
had as its purpose the overthrow of the United States Government by
force and violence.
Mr. Doyle. Of course, some of those in attendance might have just
figured that was a sort of theoretical philosophy rather than anything
they intended to put into practice, could they not?
Mr. Wereb. To prove practice in that respect, Mr. Doyle, you have
to take this into consideration. It was not only the teaching but the
actual practice of mobilization in the Communist Party which demon-
strated its worth, its power, and its position. Even if you went out
on a newspaper drive, they would say it was a mobilization, to mobilize
forces to bring about — that is No. 1. If you went out to distribute
leaflets, there was a leaflet distribution mobilization. Everything per-
taining to anything that they know of — if I were to go out and distri-
bute literature of any kind, I would say it is a literature distribution
in favor of or against. "When you are constantly reminded that this
io a party activity, this is a must, this is a mobilization, you could not
very well be stupid enough, no one could be stupid enough, to not know
what they were doing.
Mr. DoYT.E. Tliat explains to me again one reason Avhy so many
people plead the fifth amendment, because they heard that sort of
philosophy talked and they did it with their eyes open. Now and then
I find one tliat was asleep with his eyes open, but generally not. I
asked you that question because I surmise there will be other witnesses
from that area today or tomorrow who may plead the fifth amendment,
and I just want to understand some of the reasons why they might.
Your testimonj^ today makes me understand why they do, because
it might incriminate them.
INIr. Wereb. I have omitted here about 10 very important names
from this group. I wonder if it would be all right to call them.
Mr. TA\^N]srER. Which group ?
Mr. Wereb. Ten very important names from this group I have
omitted which I would like to identify at this time, if you can give
me 5 minutes.
Mr. DoYu.. Are these people personally known to you to be mem-
bers of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, very important people.
Mr. Doyle. To your personal knowledge ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right, sir; those who contributed to the Com-
munist effort.
Mr. Doyle. I thinl?: we ought to hear the witness on these positive
identifications. We are not going to shield any of them.
Mr. Wereb. Eleanor Potter, the wife of" the Vernon L. Potter;
Bronson Parrett, this man who was tossed from the Communist Party
for certain reasons : Charles Karson, brother of Morris Karson, brother
of Jack Karson.
1810 COMMXTNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
The Karson family are in the plumbing business in the southwest
side somewhere or in the Adams district. I would not know, but that
i;- the last I knew where they were active; Gladys Houston, the wife
of one John Houston, H-o-u-s-t-o-n, a housewife. Contributed her
efforts as to mailing, typing — whatever work, literary work, was
necessary.
Mr. Tavenner. Was she the wife of the same John Houston you
identified as chairman of the group ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right. Henry Garrish, a self-styled aviation
mechanic; Georgiana Garrish, the mother of Henry Garrish; John
Garrish, same family at the Paseo de Gracia address; Laura R. Gar-
rish ; Onya Fisher, 0-n-y-a F-i-s-h-e-r ; Ed Fisher. I believe the Fish-
ers were aircraft workers of some type. I do not know their exact —
they are from the Hawthorne district.
These are the last few names I omitted from our group which was
a little over a hundred there at one time.
]Mr. Doyle. You have given us these names as contributors to the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. Any time you contribute effort, time, or moneys and
carry a Communist card, sir, you are a Communist.
Mr. Doyle. Did they carry cards ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, most of them.
Mr. Doyle. Are any people of that group that you knew not mem-
bers of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. They were members of the Communist Party of that
group at one time or another during that 4-year period.
Mr. Doyle. The 4-year period beginning when and ending when?
Mr. Wereb. I would say January 1944 to the first of January 1948.
]VIr. Doyle, They were members, all of them, from time to time of
the same group you were a member of ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, same group ; either transferred in or transferred
out.
Mr. Doyle. You sat in closed meetings with them ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, sir; I was one of the executive committee mem-
bers, and therefore I had to be there.
Mr. Doyle. We will adjourn until 2 o'clock.
( Wliereupon, at 12 : 20 p. m., a recess was taken until 2 p. m., of
the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION— JULY 1, 1955
(At the reconvening of the hearing after the noon recess. Repre-
sentatives Doyle, Moulder, and Scherer were present.)
Mr. Doyle. The committee will please reconvene. Let the record
show that Congressman Scherer, of Ohio; Congressman Moulder, of
Missouri ; and Congressman Doyle, of California, are present.
This morning at 12 : 20, Mr. Counsel, we recessed until 2 o'clock,
and it is now just exactly 2 o'clock. Again this afternoon I know we
will have the very fine cooperation of everyone in the room, neither
making any demonstration for anything that harms or against any-
thing that happens by way of approbation. Thank you very much.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1811
TESTIMONY OF STEPHEN A. WEREB— Resumed
Mr. Taveistner. Mr. Wereb, we have heard through an earlier wit-
ness during these hearings of the activities of the Communist Party
in an early period of the history of the Communist Party in this area
in the field of veterans' work. During the period that you were active
in the Communist Party in behalf of the Federal Bureau of Investi-
gation, did you observe any activities among veterans or veterans'
organizations ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, I did, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I would like for you to tell the committee, please,
what you observed.
Mr. Wereb. A man by the name of Stanley Chemiel who was known
as a Communist came to an executive committee meeting. This will
have to be phonetic, or as close as possible. Stanley was his first name,
C-h-e-m-i-e-1. That is as close as I could get to that name. He was a
real-estate broker, and I do not know what else around the city. He
came and he said that the party was very much interested in the veter-
ans and gaining enough veterans with military experience, and they
were thinking of establishing a group similar to the American Legion
or the AMVETS or the Veterans of Foreign Wars, and that they
would give this a new name.
Again they dragged out the liberal, progressive name and said the
other veterans' organizations were reactionary and Fascist-minded and
therefore they would try to institute a new organization.
In the South Bay area at that time a party by the name of Jack
Kramer, K-r-a-m-e-r — this is the same Kramer I previously mentioned
as a member of the Hawthorne Communist group — Mike Gorman and
Pete Johnson — Johnson — by the way this was at his home, and John-
son was a Communist of long record. At one time at my home he said
tliat during the riot somewhere in Joliet or somewhere he hoisted the
Red flag above the city hall and tore down the American flag. These
were the type of peo]^le that held the meeting and were going to start
this new organization.
At that time they named it the American Veterans Committee. I
am a veteran and do not know anything about it, never belonged to
them. They had quite a meeting. A committee was appointed to rep-
resent the group, and in that committee was a Mike Gorman and P.
Johnson representing the Hawthorne group. Being Peoples World
director at that time and district manager, I was left out of the further
proceedings. But the next general meeting that I know of the vet-
erans
Mr. Tavenner. Before you come to the next general meeting, you
said that the principal instigator was a person named Stanley Chemiel.
Mr. Wereb. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he used any other name?
]Mr. Wereb. I do not believe I do, sir. This is the only name I ever
knew the man by. He was one that represented the group.
The next meeting was held in the Venus area, and after that there
was, I believe on Vermont Avenue somewhere, a very large meeting
held. Only through newspapers and through the Peoples World did
I follow the progress of this American Veterans Committee. The
Peoples World, of course being very friendly to it, immediately pointed
out to me that, well, things could be clifTerent and they should be dif-
ferent as far as veterans' organizations are concerned.
1812 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
At subsequent meetings of the gjroup and the functionaries, the
American Veterans Committee always received firsthand attention
because they did put up a veterans' commission in the functionaries
of the Los Angeles County Communist organization. So in the future
when I mention Los Angeles County, I do not mean the State or the
county organization of our instituted Government, but I mean the
Communist Party. Further from that, of course, I could not be inter-
ested because I had too many other duties to do. Someone else prob-
ably took up where I left off, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You gave us a list of the positions which you held
in the Communist Party. I do not believe that any of those positions
were on a county or State level, were they ?
Mr. Wereb. Any functionary attending any of the county functions,
meetings, is considered as a working part of the Communist function-
ary group. You are not one of the county committee board members,
but you do function as an active functionary in your district.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever function in that capacity ?
Mr. Wereb. I did. sir.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you describe that to the committee ?
Mr. Wereb. One of the functions I would like to call your attention
to was in the month of June, I believe, 1945. I was given credentials
by the club chairman, John Houston. This was printed by the Los
Angeles County Communist Board, and it was signed. With these
credentials I attended what was known as the southwest section,
southern section of the State of California Convention of the Commu-
nist Party. That was held in the Danish Hall around 24th or 25th
Street, a few doors east of Vermont Avenue. This was approximately
the month of June in 1945.
Mr. Tan^nner. What was the purpose of that meeting?
Mr. Wereb. Prior to the meeting there was a copy of a letter or a
printed form of a letter that was submitted to each group known as
the Duclos letter. This Duclos letter was a speech that was written by
a French Communist by the name of Duclos in France criticizing the
Browder regime at that time for its semicooperation with capitalism
and capitalist governments.
An educational, which is held 1 hour of each meeting of the regular
membership of each group, was held prior to this and the oldtimers^
the old revolutionaries — were very elated that the letter appeared.
They thought they would send their best representatives of the group
to this doing. I attended that, entered the auditorium on the second
floor with this pass.
Mr. Tavenner. With this what ?
Mr. Wereb. With this credential pass. There were about 350 to
400 people present at this, and they were all functionaries. There
could be no one that would enter that group without a pass, an official
pass.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat means were adopted to be certain that those
present had proper credentials ?
Mr. Wereb. There were these passes, and if you did not have a
credential card you were sent to a committee room to be identified. I
happened to be fortunate enough to be elected to the credentials com-
mittee with Emily Gordon and Max Silver — the three of us were on
the credentials committee — and there we had to identify or someone
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1813
had to identify a person who had no Communist credentials but who
was a known and active Communist.
There, sir, I met a man who was brought into that room whom I
identified as Ring Lardner, Jr. He came into that room and Max
Silver identified the man and vouched for him. Therefore, we seated
him with the Hollywood delegation.
This meeting went on for a day, full day, and a night. There were
new chairmen elected to this group and, as I said before, they were all
active functionaries of the Communist Party. Difi^erent people ap-
proached microphones located at strategic positions on the convention
floor. I believe there were 5, 1 for the speaker and 2 in each aisle. As
these members would come up, they would come up with a prepared
text praising the Duclos letter and danming Browder but darn good.
The very first speaker that I recall was William Schneiderman, a
Smith Act case. He stood there before thece 400 delegates and said
he was very sorry that he had cooperated with the Browder revision-
ism and that if the party would elect him or appoint him as the head
of the State Communist group, he would try to be more militant and
lead the party to a more militant role.
Next came, I believe, Dorothy Healy. She was always revolution-
ary. She just went on down the line staying with the rest.
Paul Cline, who at one time was assistant editor of the Peoples
World, approached the microphone and he also confessed to his re-
visionist attitude and prepared to be and promised to be more revolu-
tionary.
Max Silver made a very feeble effort, but he was the head of the
Los Angeles County Communist Party during the Browder adminis-
tration, so he was doomed and he knew it.
Next came a person by the name
Mr. Ta\'enner. I would like to refresh the recollection of the com-
mittee on the point of IMax Silver.
Mr. Doyle. He has testified and cooperated with this committee.
Mr. Ta\texner. Yes. He testified before the committee that when
he saw this letter for the first time, which I believe was at breakfast,
he stated to his wife that that letter was the equivalent of a declaration
of war and that the only thing that was uncertain was the time at which
the war would occur. He laid his plans then, as soon as he saw that
letter, to get out of the Communist Party, which he did.
Mr. Moulder. Declaration of war by what country ?
Mr. Tavenner. By the Soviet Union.
Mr. Wereb. It is very true that Mr. Silver made a very feeble effort
to defend himself.
The next speaker was a person by the name of Buth Goldstein,
G-o-l-d-s-t-e-i-n, I believe. This man stood in the center of the audi-
torium— I beg your pardon; the right side of the auditorium — and
stated he was a Communist for 11 years; that he was a sergeant in the
Abraham Lincoln Brigade ; that he served under the command of one
Jack Karson, previously mentioned as a member of the Hawthorne
group, who was a lieutenant in this group. He could not understand
why the Communist Party of the United States ever sunk to the level
of cooperation, revisionism, and he demanded that there would be a
revolution of the workers of this country ; that there would be estab-
lished a dictatorship of the proletariat. With that, when he finished,
he got quite an ovation.
1814 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
The next speaker was a man by the name of Kay Durant, also iden-
tified himself. As to his Communist membership and leadership, beat
his breast like the rest of them, I guess, about how sorry they were
about revisionism. He promised a very much more militant role. He
demanded that in the resolution of the day, which was to be drawn up
by the resolutions committee of that group, that it be embodied, his
demand, that there would be an overthrow of the United States Gov-
ernment and the establishment of a dictatorship of the proletariat.
With that, the whole group gave him a terrific, terrific sendoff. He
really got quite an applause.
That is one of the functions that I have attended.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has heard evidence a number of
times about tlie purpose of the Duclos letter and the result of the
Duclos letter, l)ut I believe this is the first time we have had an eye-
witness account of a meeting in a locality describing the participation
that people took in the deliberations.
May I ask you whether or not, at the time or very shortly
after the time that you observed this meeting that you made a report
of it to the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
Mr. Wereb. I made a report that evening and the following day;
that is, the following evening, after the meeting was over, because I
had too many names and it seemed like everyone was taking notes.
I took notes and I managed to identify a lot of people as they stood
and identified themselves to speak and as to their union affiliation,
their positions in the union. I could not help but feel that that was an
important step toward protection of the proper union people, people
with good, respectable standings in their unions. It alarmed me to
this extent: that I believe labor was slandered, having people like
that at any command or leadership post, but that was the party's pro-
gram and policy.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you record the names of the persons present
that you could identify ?
;Mr. Wereb. I did.
Mr. Tavenner. As members of the Communist Party?
Mr. Wereb. I did, sir. Did you wish to hear them now?
Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you this first : Do they include in some
instances the names of the members of the Hawthorne Club that you
have already given us?
Mr. Wereb. I believe there are about four names in there in that
group. There were, I believe, four delegates to this convention.
Mr. Tavenner. With the exception of a very small number, these
are persons not already identified by you ?
Mr. Wereb. That is correct, and these are all functionaries of the
party.
Mr. Tavenner. Very well. I would like for to proceed. Again, if
you can give any identifying information in addition to the name
itself, I wish you would do it.
Mr. Wereb. I will try.
The first person was William Schneiderman, Smith case.
Mr. Taa'enner. When you say 'Smith case," you are speaking of one
of the defendants in the Smith trial ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes ; who was convicted of the Smith Act.
Alice Ward Sparks : The assistant manager, business manager, of
the People's World in Los Angeles.
COMMinsnST activities in the LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1815
Bud Blair, B-l-a-i-r : This man was the chairman of the South Side
or industrial section,
Emil Freed, F-r-e-e-d, who was convicted in the Los Angeles courts
for inciting a riot at some strike line or other, and he served a little
time.
Harold Koberts : An employee of the Peoples World.
Mr. Tavenner. May I interrupt you a moment. Do you know
whether Emil Freed was at one time a candidate for the United States
Senate on the Communist ticket?
Mr. Wereb. I do not recall.
Helen Norf jor, N-o-r-f-j-o-r : A printer's helper.
John Stapp, active in the moving picture unions. I do not know
which one, in the moving picture industry.
Mr. Tavenner. These, I understand, were functionaries.
Mr. Wereb. Yes, sir; functionaries. These were all people who
were delegated with these credentials and these credential cards, be-
cause as the cards were turned in I copied the names.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has had considerable evidence re-
garding John Stapp and his activities as a functionary.
Mr. Wereb. Beebe Goldstein, an employee of a trucking concern.
Mr. Tavenner. Spell Goldstein.
Mr. Wereb. G-o-l-d-s-t-e-i-n.
Mr. Tavenner. And spell all of the names after this,
Mr. Wereb. I am sorry.
Miriam Brooks, M-i-r-i-a-m B-r-o-o-k-s. So far as I knew, that
was correct.
We have a repetition here ; Dan McComb.
Mr. Tavenner, Whom you have already identified.
Mr. Wereb. I have already identified him in the Hawthorne group.
Edith Smith : I have already identified her in the Hawthorne group.
Dave Chriss, who at that time was heading the El Segundo-Redondo
group. They had split.
Jean Chriss : I have already identified her as the relative of Dave
Chriss.
Wilhelmina Maise, M-a-i-s-e : She is the one that signed me up to tlie
Communist Party and was chairman of the West Lake group.
Elizabeth Glenn- — also knew her as Elizabeth Leich Glenn.
Adele Young, a housewife, I believe, and active around the book-
store quite a bit. Progressive Book Shop.
Lou Baron, active in a builder's union ; also I believe for awhile on
the county committee, B-a-r-o-n.
Mike Gorman ; also identified this person before.
Chester Fein, F-e-i-n : I also identified him in the Hawthorne group.
Bea or Beatrice Baron, B-a-r-o-n, a fulltime employee of the Los
Angeles County Communist Party collecting dues from dues secre-
taries.
Bill O'Neil : I believe he was an aircraft worker, O'-N-e-i-l, of a
group on the west side somewhere.
Frank Whitley, W-h-i-t-1-e-y : Whitley was the chairman, I believe,
of the Adams Communist Party group.
Ann Trojan, T-r-o-j-a-n, very active in the Rhetta group.
Mr. Tavenner. What group ?
Mr. Wereb. Rhetta Club of the Communist Party ; R-h-e-t-t-a, I
believe. The Rhetta group.
1816 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Louise McCord, M-c-C-o-r-d : I believe she was one of the delegates
in a number of functions from a different group, but I cannot recall
which one.
Nemmy Sparks: This man was the chairman of tlie Los Angeles
County Communist Party at 124 West Sixth Street for a period of
a year and a half or more. N-e-m-m-y. This was an alias, and I never
did find out what his real name was.
Dorothy Healy, H-e-a-1-y: She succeeded Max Silver in his posi-
tion as the party executive secretary.
Mr. DoTx,E. When was Max Silver deposed or when did he get out?
What happened?
Mr. Wereb. Right after the Duclos letter he was disposed of.
Mr. Doyle. Just like Browder?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, evicted ; could not serve the purpose of the revolu-
tionary group. Was of no use to the party.
Mr. Doyle. I read the Duclos letter some years ago, and as I recall
the appraisal I made of it , it was the same as you have. The
Communist papers disagreed with Browder's belief that the Com-
munist policy would fit in and keep economic peace with the
capitalistic philosophy of our Nation, and the Soviet Communist
Party through Duclis, the Frenchman as you say, wrote this letter
to this country showing it could not be ; that there must be the survival
of one economic philosophy or he other, Soviet communism or our own
capitalist people. Some people favor the Soviet Commimist
philosophy.
Mr. Wereb. At one time I was appointed temporary educational
director. A full-time Communist employee of the party by the name
of George Sandy instructed me as to how to conduct an educational,
which is most important of any Communist meeting. He said, "Well,
you know during this Browder period" — there was no Duclos letter
in sight at that time, but he said during this Browder period, "Tell
them anything, what is the difference? It is not going to stay put
anyway ; they won't know the difference. Wlien the right time comes
the party will become" — it was way over my head; I didn't know
what he was talking about.
I talked of some of the writings of Browder at that time. He
thought at the end of the meeting I had done a fairly good job, but
it was of no consequence, meant nothing; and the party was aware
this was only temporary, just one sidestep before stepping forward.
Mr. Doyle. AVliat was the sidestep ?
Mr. Wereb. This cooperative period of Browder. It was in my
mind — to the best of my judgment, sir, it was nothing but a sham
until the war was over, that they could get all they possibly could
from this country and then they would turn and become the same old
revolutionary brigands they have ever been.
Mr. ScHERER. I wonder if we can apply a little of that philosophy
to the present world situation.
Mr. Wereb. They took a step back this time, sir. Marxist philoso-
phy is you can't always march forward; sometimes take a step side-
wise, retreat 1 step to gain 4 steps. As far as I am concerned, this
smiling and wearing of the 10-gallon hat in my estimation is a lot of
hokum: something to make a lot of good, honest, decent thinking
Americans sleep and think, well, manana is here and we are all all
right now ; he is fine. That is my personal opinion.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1817
Mr. ScHERER. The reason I asked the question, I wondered if we
can draw any conclusions from what you said
Mr. Wereb. I hoped you would.
Mr. ScHERER. With present-day conditions.
Mr. "\Yereb. I had hoped you would, Congressman.
Next was Merle Brodsky, M-e-r-1-e B-r-o-d-s-k-y, active in one of
the east side groups and also a delegate from one of the east side
groups.
Elmer Averbuck, A-v-e-r-b-u-c-k, a stuttering, tall fellow, active
also in the Hollywood group.
Now comes Shevy Wallace, at one time member of the Rhetta group,
and then finally a full-time employee of the county Communist Party.
(At this point Representative Jackson entered the hearing room.)
Mr. Wereb. Trudy Siminov, T-r-u-d-y S-i-m-i-n-o-v. She was an
employee, I believe, of the Yugoslav Relief Committee, the Joint Anti-
Fascist Refugee Committee, and then she worked for the county part
time. She was also a delegate to all the county functions and the
functionaries meetings.
Barbara Morley, M-o-r-l-e-y, full-time paid employee of the Los
Angeles County Communist Party.
Frances Stapp, S-t-a-p-p, of the Hollywood group.
Mr. Ta\tenner. Is that a man or woman ?
Mr. Wereb. That is a woman, F-r-a-n-c-e-s.
Pettis Perry, a man who headed the colored commission, very active
at the CIO hall most of the time.
Delphine Smith, D-e-1-p-h-i-n-e Smith. She was very active in the
Long Beach and Wilmington area and San Pedro area. I think she
worked in the shi]Dyards for a while.
Frances Lynn. I knew her just as a delegate.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Was that individual a man or AAoman ?
Mr. Wereb. Woman ; L-y-n-n. It might be L-y-n, but we used the
name Lynn most of the time for her in our reports.
Ola Pacifico, 0-1-a P-a-c-i-f-i-c-o, the employee of the county who
was discharged from the health department because she would not
sign the non-Communist oath.
Sally Chriss, previously mentioned as a member of the Redondo
group.
Frank Spector, S-p-e-c-t-o-r, an oldtimer; made the papers a lot
of times.
Ken Ostreimer, O-s-t-r-e-i-m-e-r, male.
Ben Richman. This Ben Richman was also one of tlie proponents
and instigators from the group around the— I cannot recall that area
right now, near the West Lake group in the American Veterans' Com-
mittee. He was active at putting on parties at liis home for the bene-
fit of the Communist Party and the Peoples World.
Al Richmond, R-i-c-h-m-o-n-d. He is a Smith Act conviction from
the Peoples World.
George Sandy, the man I have previously mentioned as a full-time
employee or organizer for the Los Angeles County Communist Party.
Ester Miller Sazer, illegal entry into the country from Canada, the
best I can remember. She went by two names : Miller and Sazer both.
Mr. Moulder. Can you further identify the people by the name of
Richmond?
Mr. Wereb. Wliich Richmond, Al or Ben ?
1818 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Moulder. There was a Richman.
Mr. Wereb. Richman was the man that was active in the AVC
movement; Richmond was the editor of the Peoples World in San
Francisco.
Mr. Moulder. Wliat was his full name ?
Mr. Wereb. A1.
Mr. Moulder. Do you know where he lived ?
Mr. Wereb. He lived in San Francisco. He was convicted under
the Smith Act.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe Sazer was the last.
]\Ir. Wereb. That is the illegal entry into the county, the Sazer
woman.
Judy Schmidt, S-c-h-m-i-d-t, for a time full-time employee of the
Peoples World.
Al Sherman, S-h-e-r-m-a-n, Hollywood group.
ISIiriam Brook Sherman, wife, very active and constant delegate.
According to one of her speeches, she was given a trip to Russia to see
Stalin because she recruited more members into the Communist Party
than anyone in the Los Angeles County, so her reward was a trip to see
Stalin.
Mr. ScHERER, Do you know whether she got to see him or not ?
Mr. Wereb. She stated that she did. It was only through her story
and what she repeated to the functionaries group is where I got my
information.
Mr. Doyle. Where did she make that statement ?
Mr. Wereb. She made that at 2200 East Seventh Street sometime
in August of 1945.
Mr. Scherer. Was she impressed ?
Mr. Wereb. I guess she was. She was rather a big figure in the
Hollywood Communist group. She was very influential.
Walter Smith, male; in the San Pedro area.
(At this point. Representative Moulder left the hearing room.)
Mr. Wereb. Jane Sniffen, S-n-i-f-f-e-n. This is a woman who be-
longed to a group, but I could not tell you what group she belonged to.
I had seen her a number of times at functionaries meetings, out it
seemed like I always tried to find out who somebody else was. I had
her pegged already, so it was all right.
Loretta Stack of San Francisco, I believe, and she was also known
as Starvus. She is the woman that got up at this meeting I have refer-
ence to and stated that the workers of the United States would be the
gravediggers of the capitalist government of this comitry. Also re-
ceived quite an ovation.
Mr. Doyle. Where was that ?
Mr. Wereb. At 2200 West Seventh Street, the second section of the
California Communist convention. I believe it was in August of 1945.
Mr. Doyle. Will you make it clear to me how high up the ladder of
Communist functionaries she was?
Mr. Wereb. She was one of the State committee members.
Mr. Doyle. State of California ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right, sir.
Mr. Scherer. Was there any way. Witness, of you knowing whether
these people who made these statements did so with conviction and
sincerity, or were they merely going through a ritual ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1819
Mr. Wereb. At a Communist Party functionary meeting, sir, you
only say the policy of the party. You do not repeat any iriesponsible
self-thought or self-induced speeches or ideas. You repeat only the
party policy, especially when you are holding a position as high as
she has held.
Mr. ScHERER. That is what I meant, whether it was merely a ritual
or repetition of party policy, or whether these people actually were
convinced. Of course, it is difficult for you to look into somebody's
mind, I know that; but from your wide experience and acquaintance
with these individuals, I was wondering whether or not you came to
any conclusions as to whether they were actually revolutionaries at
heart or whether they were merely repeating a ritual or policy of the
party in line with what was expected of them.
Mr. Wereb. Might I explain this way: She was also 1 of the 14
convicted in Federal courts in this country, in this State, under the
Smith Act.
Mr. Scherer. That certainly answers my question as to her.
Mr. Wereb. Anna Tenoyucca, T-e-n-o-y-u-c-c-a. I believe she was
one of the Spanish or Mexican descent delegates, or of the Mexican
group — I am not too sure.
Harry Bennett, B-e-n-n-e-t-t, of the Terrace Communist group.
That is an East Side group.
His wife, Sophia, S-o-p-h-i-a, Bennett.
Charlotte, C-h-a-r-1-o-t-t-e, Benoitte, B-e-n-o-i-t-t-e — just known as
a delegate, did not have too much time with her.
Mrs. Bud Blair, this is the wife of the chairman of the industrial
section of the South Side section of the Communist Party.
Carl Brant, B-r-a-n-t. He was labor chairman of the Los Angeles
County labor group ; also chairman of this meeting.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee endeavored to subpena Mr. Brant
for this hearing but was unable to serve the subpena. Do you have
any other information about his activities in the Communist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. I do, sir. And this is where I believe that the honor-
able Congressmen would be very much interested as to the violence
put into practice by the Communist Party.
Mr. Scherer. May I interrupt, Mr. Chairman? This witness cer-
tainly has been on the stand a long time and must be tired. Is there
not some way we could give him a little recess and call some other
witness in the meantime and then bring him back ? He has been on
the stand a couple of hours before lunch and now also another hour.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like for him to proceed a
little further, if you do not mind. Will you tell us about Carl Brant?
Mr. Wereb. In the fall— rather, the early part of the winter of
1946, I believe it was near Christmas, we were given instruction by
the chairmen of our groups to attend a meeting held at the Templar
Hall, which is located just west of Jefferson, west of Vermont Ave-
nue on Jefferson Boulevard. The meeting ordinarily for a function-
ary group, has always been designated— it is designated as to its
nature, whether a Peoples World drive, membership drive, or what-
ever drive this is. This was nameless. Only the South Side section,
including the San Pedro area, the Long Beach area, Wilmington, was
called to this meeting.
1820 COMMUlSriST activities est the LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
The meeting was chaired by Bud Blair, the section chairman.
He started off by reading off some Peoples World drives, which
were absolutely impertinent to what we were called for. A few
minutes after we started speaking of the Peoples World progress,
a man walked in whom I knew to be a Communist for a long time,
Carl Brant. He was also the head of a union that was on strike at
that time at the United States Motors located near Slausson and
Avalon Boulevards, I believe two blocks west.
Bud Blair introduced Carl Brant to the group; that Carl Brant
would have something very serious to say to this group. Everyone
sat back and listened. He said, "Comrades"
Mr. Tavenner. Who said this ?
Mr. Wereb. Carl Brant. He now was addressing this meeting. He
said, "Comrades, there has been by the superior court in the county of
Los Angeles an order issued limiting the pickets. This is unfair, a
screwy decision, and we are not going to stand by and take it. There-
fore tomorrow morning each and every one of you recruit, bring out
all the husky manpower you possibly can because we are going to boot
the hell out of the Los Angeles police and we are going to break that
order."
Mr. ScETERER. I wonder what becomes of all of the assertions and
statements that we hear before this committee by certain witnesses;
namely, that we should leave these matters up to the courts and that
they will abide by the decisions of the courts, and they are not inter-
ested in the conclusions of this committee. It seems that when they
get into court the same reasoning applies to court decisions and the
attitudes of courts as it does to the activities of this committee. I just
wanted to make that observation.
Mr. Wereb. He said, "This is the time for Communist action. You
have mobilized, you have learned to mobilize. Now we are going to
put mobilization into force."
Mr. Doyle. How many men were there ?
Mr. Wereb. The following morning, sir, I went out, being Peoples
World director.
Mr. Doyle. How many were at this meeting?
Mr. Weree. I would say 30 people.
Mr. Doyle. Any women?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, there were, because there were functionaries, wom-
en functionaries in the group ; women can recruit and mobilize as well
as men can, sir.
Mr. Scherer. This incident which he is relating demonstrates to
me clearly the value of having informants within that group because
I am sure that before he had concluded the police department and the
Federal Bureau of Investigation knew the intention of that group to
mobilize against the police.
Mr. Doyle. In any sense, was this a Communist closed meeting or
union ?
Mr. Wereb. This was a Communist functionary meeting of the
South Side industrial section ; there was no one else but Communists
there. I believe Alice Ward, Nemmy Spark's wife, was one. I be-
lieve Elsie Mancar, secretary of the Mine, Mill and Smelters Workers
Union, was present. There were a number of other people. At the
present time I am too much occupied in my mind to relate who were
there.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1821
Mr. DoTLE. In other words, here was a bunch of 35 or 40 Commu-
nists planning to do something on the picket line.
Mr. Wereb. The idea, sir, was we were going to break the police line.
Mr. ScHERER. Violate the order of the court.
Mr. Doyle. Violate the order of the court and bring reputable or-
ganized labor into disrepute.
Mr. Wereb. The following morning I was on the f)icket line with the
manpower we mobilized. The police department had a hundred or
more policemen out there in the morning, and at 7 o'clock the parade
started. In spite of the police loudspeaker warnings, the parade
started down Lawson Avenue going west; I would say 1,500 people.
This was led by 2 people. They spearheaded this. One was Philip
Connelly. This Philip Connelly was convicted of the Smith Act in
this trial in Los Angeles, and this man Carl Brant. They came at the
head of this and defied the police, defied all of the people — all its law-
makers— and they were going to have violence, and they did have
violence. There were a number of heads broken, tear gas. There was
fighting, there was general rioting.
Mr. Jackson. The usual police brutality, isn't that the expression ?
That is how it was reported in the paper, Cossacks attack the innocent
workers and violence
Mr. Wereb. I took refuse in the railroad yards, over the back fenc€.
I am not young, but I made it. I wanted no tear gas or police.
Mr. Scherer. How many joined the picket line ?
Mr. Wereb. I would say 1,500 ; I do not say all Conunies.
Mr. Scherer. Three hundred less than picketed us last month in
Newark.
Mr. Wereb. That demonstrated to me violence and bloodshed as
taught by Marxism and Leninism. It was a method of carrying out
defiance of legal authority.
Mr. Doyle. In other words, here were two known Communists lead-
ing a group of American working men and women, most of whom
probably had no idea that the Communist Party was leading them
down the road.
Mr. Wereb. That is correct.
Mr. Doyle. Again bringing reputable labor in my State in disrepute.
Mr. Wereb. That is right. This was just one of the instances of
bringing out mobilization, bringing out force, bringing out violence —
because I could not describe it better, I could not conscientiously in
my own mind justify it any other way but an actual revolutionary
step. I can be told by authorities not to do so, and the reason I am
told that is because a law was enacted by the greatest majority of the
people through the representatives for that, and when I defy that I
know I am doing the wrong thing. And they knew, because the police
came with loudspeakers and warned them that they are acting against
the orders of the court and that if they dispersed there would be no
trouble. But instead of dispersing, these two men led this group —
and most naturally, most of the front people were Communists.
Mr. Scherer. Instead of following the procedures prescribed by the
Constitution which they pretend to defend in these hearings and ap-
pealing the decision of that court through the procedures prescribed,
they took the law into their own hands and violated the order of the
court.
65500—55 — pt. 4 4
1822 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Wereb. This was one of the instances, sir.
I would appreciate about a 10 minute recess.
Mr. Tavenner. May I ask you one question first. The Philip Con-
nelly you referred to as being one of the two leaders of this group,
do you recall whether or not he served a jail sentence on the charge
oi inciting a riot?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, he did.
Mr. Tavenner. Relating to this very matter ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, he did, sir. There were about 15 people of the
leadership of that group who served sentences, but I stayed out of that
mostly because I did not want to get involved. There was a chance
for me to be uncovered, so I stepped back and stayed away. There
A^ ere chances there of being uncovered, and I could not take that.
Mr. Doyle. The committee will stand in recess 5 minutes.
(Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)
ISIr, Doyle. Come to order.
Let the record show that a legal quorum of the subcommittee is
here, Mr. Jackson, of California; Mr. Scherer, of Ohio; and Mr.
Doyle, of California.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Wereb, you were answering a few questions I
had asked you regarding Carl Brandt. Will you proceed now with
giving of the names of the functionaries of the Communist Party
who attended the meeting regarding the Duclos letter ?
Mr. Wereb. We had one Archie Brown, who at one time ran for
Governor of the State of California on the Communist Party ticket.
Rose Chernin, convicted in the Smith Act. Philip Connelly, con-
victed in the Smith Act. Ben Dobbs, convicted. Smith Act. Dr. Hy
Engelberg. This next name I am going to omit because this woman
was not at that meeting. That was Elizabeth Gurley Flynn. She
was at another meeting.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, you do not place her at that meeting ?
Mr. Wereb. Not at that particular meeting. She was at another
meeting and somehow this name got into this wrong place. She was
one of the national committeemen, I think, of the Communist Party
of the United States.
Jim Forrest — he was the chairman and organizer in the Long
Beach area of the Communist Party. Leon Ginsberg, functionary
from the west side. Shirley Gray, functionary, I don't recall from
what club at this time. Henry Steinberg, convicted in the Smith Act.
Jane Swanhauser. She is of the Hollywood group, I believe, a func-
tionary, and very active in the People's World drive. She was very
active in membership committee drives.
James Talley, a functionary of the Central Avenue section. Frank
ICadish, member of the county committee of the Los Angeles party.
Pat Kiloran. Pat Kiloran I believe was also a reporter for the People's
World.
Eva Korn — she assisted very often besides her functionary work,
she assisted at the county offices with literature work, mimeographing,
mailing, and whatnot.
Rudy Lambert, convicted. Smith case. Ring Lardner, Jr., was
supposed to have been at the first section, not the second section I am
speaking of now. He should have been mentioned as present at the
first section at the Danish Hall. Albert Lima, convicted. Smith Act.
George Lohr, representing, I believe, the San Diego area.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1823
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, that is the same individual that
we learned during the San Diego hearings was in Czechoslovakia.
He is in Czechoslovakia now.
All right, go ahead.
Mr. Wereb. Jack Moss. I omitted two names until later for other
purposes. Those two were not present at that meeting.
Fletcher Nester, father-in-law or father of Dorothy Healey, con-
victed under the Smith Act, not Fletcher Nester but Dorothy Healey
was. Sophie Nester. These are the names.
There are more names I have but these are names of those people
who were at the southern section of the California Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. I have been asking you what functionary meetings
of the Communist Party you attended and this one in which you have
named all these functionaries was one of them.
Were there any other functionary meetings that you attended?
Mr. Wereb. Yes; there were, sir. I recall one functionary meeting
in the early part of 1947. At this meeting ,there were 2 within 3 weeks,
large functionary meetings that were held at '2-20i) East Seventh Sti'eet.
I think it was known as the Park Manor. There at the first meeting
William Schneiderman instructed all functionaries due to tlie trouble
he is having with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the police de-
partment, and other stool-pigeon agencies as he called them, he no
longer wants any contact with party members by mail, telephone; the
correct names are no longer necessary to be used.
If you have any new member or a recruit as they would call them
you are to take them to places of integration personally and see that
they were integrated into their Marxist classes or into the groups to
which they will be assigned, be it labor, be it language, or be it arts or
whatever group that they had work in.
He seemed very, very much dissatisfied with the treatment the
American people were giving the Communist Party and he urged
that there would be a doublecheck on all members, there would be a
security check on everybody and that this check would include a very
severe Marxist program and this Marxist program would include all
labor leaders and those who are active in their union to be given special
Marxist training and that no longer
Mr. Scherer. Just a minute.
Mr. Wereb. May I finish the sentence ?
Mr. Scherer. To keep the record straight, when you said give these
instructions to all leaders in labor unions, you mean leaders who
were already members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right. You broke my thought there.
Mr. Scherer. It sounded too bad on the record.
Mr. Wereb. He said that labor union men who might think that
their position in the party as Communists would jeopardize their posi-
tion in the union, they no longer would have to be known as Commu-
nists. That was the sum and substance of the security meeting of that
group.
Mr. Scherer. You mean they wouldn't have to disclose their
identity, those groups would go underground ?
Mr. Wereb. Especially in labor movement or labor leadership.
Mr. Scherer. You said this was a rather rigid security check ?
Mr. Wereb. Yes, it was. The order was to conduct a rigid security
check.
1824 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Were you given your security check following that
meeting ?
Mr. Wereb. Very shortly. I want no more.
Mr. ScHERER. Were members dismissed as a result of that security
check ?
Mr. Wereb. They would be tried by a security group or security
body and then if the party found that they were antagonistic to the
party or they were not loyal or were not willing to go down the full
line of the party, they would be tried in absentia or within their
presence, didn't make a bit of difference, and they would be listed by
the party as enemies of labor, stool pigeons of capitalism and they
would tag them, they would manage to hang a tag or some type on
them whereby that individual was no longer accepted by capital or
by labor.
Mr. Tavenner. The party felt for its own safety and security it had
to expel those from its list those who were not loyal to the party ?
Mr. Wereb. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. I am wondering today when the United States Gov-
ernment is doing the same thing, expelling from its employ persons
who it feels are security risks, why there is such a hue and cry about
that type of check by this same group who did the same thing to protect
the Communist Party.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask this : I understood you to say that these Com-
munist Party members were tried for security clearance even in their
absence.
Mr. Wereb. They were tried
Mr. Doyle. You said in absentia.
Mr. Wereb. In other words, they didn't have to be present at the-
trial.
Mr. Doyle. They always got notice of the trial, I hope.
Mr. Wereb. Yes; they did, but ordinarily it wasn't very compli-
mentary, they would get it in a roundabout way in such a way as to
destroy their standing in the union, in their job.
Mr. Doyle. Did they get a bill of particulars or complaint?
Mr. Wereb. That was always prewritten, always the same charge,,
as being an enemy to the masses. That was the general charge and
Mr. Doyle. Very indefinite.
Mr. Wereb. They didn't care about any points that were definite.
You were just an enemy to the masses of the people and therefore you
were expelled or you were tagged or you were eliminated.
There was another class- — may I proceed ?
There was another class within 3 weeks or so of this security class,
which was chaired by Dorothy Healy. Dorothy Healy reminded us of
the meeting 3 weeks previous and agreed fully that the worst, that
there were spies in the organization, there were disruptions, anything
that didn't please them was a disruption. There was opportunism,
that is another tag they would hang on somebody, an opportunist, and
you were dead.
Of course saying dead would be just as a member. This meeting,
she proposed another group, some of them of this first bunch that were
present and then I have other names that were present at this other
class or group for instruction and she told the functionaries not to use
the mail, not to contact by phone, but all strikes are to be Communist
led and they are to be controlled by the Communist Party.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1825
The progress of the strike was to be reported to the county board
from time to time as to its progress or no progress. She urged that
there would be mass meetings of disruption of proceedings, disorderly
conduct, and what-not, at shop gates, open Communist meetings or
progressive meetings, shall we say, on street corners, that Congressmen
were to be picketed at their homes in case they enacted legislation con-
trary to the welfare of the party.
Mr. Doyle. The Communist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right. Would you mind if I refresh my mind
on that meeting? I have a note or two here which I would like to
bring out. I hate to delay. She also urged that every one would be
doubly checked ag;ain for Marxist and Leninist training. _ She de-
manded the reinstitution of all Leninist programs. A Leninist pro-
gram was the means of carrying out revolution. It wasn't Marxist
so much, it was the Leninist program she was driving at.
Mr. Doyle. Wliat woman was that ?
Mr. Wereb. Dorothy Healy, the head of the Los Angeles County
Communist Party.
Mr. D0Y1.E. Where is she today ?
Mr. Wereb. She has been convicted under the Smith Act, the trial
here 2 years ago. All recruiting must be very careful as to who they
recruit. There should be a concentration on labor leader'? and these
labor leaders are to have their training quietly and according to the
set rules of the party.
Mr. Doyle. Why do they try to get top labor leaders in to the
Communist conspiracy? They seem to put more effort on that than
any other group.
Mr. Wereb. I believe the best way I can explain that, sir, is that
labor everywhere in the world I believe at one time or other has had
some uneasy experiences and if you want to talk to a man, I will give
you a for instance here, if you want to talk to a man about a traffic
cop, all you have to do is talk to a fellow who already has a ticket and
you have got a sour apple. There were some people at one time or
other that had been discharged from their jobs or they had been laid
off from their work, and they didn't have the best of everything we
have.
Most naturally they were easiest to prey on. They would do things
for their own welfare and not know what they were doing because
the Communist Party didn't go after membership in large numbers.
Their power was not in numbers. Their power was in a close-knit
well organized group whereby in leadership, in government, every-
where else — she also said at this meeting that the industries to con-
centrate on would be aviation, shipping, transportation, communica-
tions, I believe she covered those pretty darn well, all basic industries.
Mr. DoYLE. In other words, the industries that the Communist con-
spiracy would want to weaken or destroy or handicap in the event we
were attacked by a foreign enemy.
Mr. Wereb. It would be necessary that they control that.
Mr. DoYLE. I think some of these young people, and the older people
in this room, ought to hear this witness with their ears open pretty
wide.
Mr. ScHERER. I think it should be pointed out that this testimony
of this witness here isn't isolated testimony. We have heard this story
1 826 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
from witnesses from one end of this country to the other, same type-
of testimony.
Mr. Doyle. That is rijjht.
Mr. ScHERER. I wouldn't want some people who are hearing it for
the first time to think this is something new.
Mr. Ta\^nner. At this point will you give us the names of individ-
uals who attended either of these two meetings which you said were
held 1 or 2 weeks apart or additional functionary meetings; then
possibly at a later time we will come back to a further discussion of
what took place at these meetings.
Mr. Werep.. I would say further, sir, that there was a person by the
name of "H," that is the only initial I have, Tilles.
Mr. Tavenner. What about her?
Mr. Wereb. She was a functionary of the Communist Party from
some district which I wasn't aware of at that time.
Mr. Ta\^nner. What meeting was it ?
Mr. Wereb. This is the second meeting I have reference to now,,
second meeting of the security meeting which was chaired by Dorothy
Healy, not the one chaired by Schneiderman.
E. C. Twine, this man was from the Central Avenue District and
he has had a prison record once or twice, I believe.
Mr. Tavenner, Will you make it clear for us what meeting this is ?
Mr. Wereb. This is that second meeting, sir.
Mr. Ta%t:nner. 1947.
Mr. Wereb. 1947, early part of 1947.
Harry Ultrich, also known as Uttrech, an alias. I knew the man
by both names, a functionary delegate from one of the clubs.
Virginia Warren. Anne Pollock. That is the spelling I have,
P-o-l-l-o-c-k. Dave Warford, William Weintraub, Dave Wnrford
was active in a labor group somewhere in, whether it was a building
trades union I don't recall, but he gave his status at one of the
mepfings.
William Weintraub, W-e-i-n-t-r-a-u-b. For a while local manager
for the People's World, full time employee at that time on Second and
Spring Street.
Robert Wilkerson, W-i-1-k-e-r-s-o-n. Charles Gladstone, also known
as Charles Young. He was from the Garment Workers group.
Gertrude Staughton, S-t-a-u-g-h-t-o-n. She was from I believe
HoMvwood. I wouldn't know for sure at this time.
Nathan Shapiro, district manager in the north end of town for
People's World and a functionary delegate to most of the meetings.
Anne Bilan, a delegate from one of the group, I don't recall right
at the present moment. Irving Goldman, a recent transfer at that
time from the Young Communist League who had reached the age
where he was too old for the Young Communist League, and it was
his turn to take part and take action duty in the Communist Party.
He lived within about six blocks of my residence, he and his wife
both belonged there.
Don Healy. This man was formerly husband of Dorothy Healy,
whom I mentioned as the Smith case. Larue McCormick. She be-
longed to an east side group, I am not sure if it was the Watts Club
or not. She at one time, I believe, ran for city council or something,
some little office, didn't amount to anything.
Mr. Jackson. City council of what ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1827
Mr. Weeeb. I believe it was either Watts or that district in there.
I am not too sure of that but I know she ran for some office. At one
time she ran for the board of education too and she flopped there.
Cliff Houdeck, H-o-u-d-e-c-k, a functionary delegate. Ed HoUings-
head. Ed Hollingshead was the watchdog of the party. He would
manage to hang about the CIO hall most of the time and find some
one who was anti-Communist or didn't exactly like the party and he
was there to cause all the trouble and all the headaches at one time.
He was known as their security officer at large. They had two, you
know. Hershel Alexander, Watts group, very active functionary, also
a member of the southwest industrial group.
(Representative Jackson left the hearing room.)
Mr. Wereb. Harden Westman, for a time People's World director
and district manager for People's World in Inglewood District.
Martha Hard, functionary delegate from one club, I don't recall
which club at this time.
Shevey Wallace. This Shevey Wallace is the one I had reference
to as a full time employee of the Los Angeles County Comnmnist
Party. Those are about all the names that I have for tliat meeting, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this witness has been on the stand
all day. There are more questions that I would like to ask him but
I would prefer to pass it over until tomorrow morning and proceed
with other witnesses at this time.
Mr. DoTLE. We begin tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock.
Mr. DoYLE. Is that satisfactory to you, sir ?
Mr. Wereb. Very satisfactory.
Mr. Doyle. You are excused until 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.
Thank you.
Mr. Wereb. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. James Burford.
Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Burford. I do.
Mr. DoYLE. Thank you. Be seated, please.
(Representative Jackson returned to the hearing room.)
TESTIMONY OF JAMES BURFORD, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL,
LEON BRONTON, JR.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, sir?
Mr. Burford. James Burford.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel.
Would counsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Bronton. Leon Bronton, Jr., Los Angeles.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Burford ?
Mr. Burford. I was born in the United States of America, 1910.
Mr. Tavenner. Where in the United States ?
Mr. Burford. California.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in California ?
Mr. Burford. I do, sir. A native son.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you resided continuously in Cali-
fornia?
Mr. Burford. Oh, most of my life.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation ?
1828 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. BuRFORD. Well, Mr. Doyle, this question bears upon some phone
calls that I received over a period of the last, well, within the last
4 months telling me that unless I violated, this was the demand, not
in these terms, 1 am not quoting the phone call now — The substance
of the phone call was unless I violated
Mr. ScHERER. Just a minute. Witness. I am addressing the Chair.
I ask for regular order. One question is: What is his occupation.
He can either tell us his occupation or take the fifth amendment.
Mr. BuRFORD, Mr. Doyle, I think this is a very important matter
and it has a bearing upon the answer which I am about to give. Now
may I answer the question ?
Mr. ScHERER. He can give his answer and then explain his answer
if he wants to.
Mr. Doyle. Do the phone calls have anything to do with this
committee ?
Mr. ScHERER. Not with the committee, but with his occupation.
Mr. BuRFORD. It has to do with this committee and with my
occupation.
Mr. Doyle. Let's hear it, Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. I object.
Mr. BuRFORD. This phone call threatened me. I would be put
out of business and the way of putting me out of business was going
to be by calling me before this committee.
Mr. Doyle. Who called you ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I don't know. It was an anonymous call like often
those things are.
Mr. Doyle. At what place of business did they call you?
You have made a charge against this committee.
Mr. BuRFORD. I was called on my telephone.
Mr. Doyle. You made a charge against this committee that was
pretty serious.
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, if the charge has no more substanti-
ation than the unsupported word of the witness that he was called
and threatened, it doesn't concern me a great deal.
Mr. BuRFORD. For a committee that has taken the kind of unsub-
stantiated testimony that this has, it is a funny time to start worrying
about— —
Mr. Jackson. Give me the unsubstantiated testimony. Which
one? What testimony do you have reference to, sir ? You have vol-
unteered the statement that we have received unsupported testimony.
I want to know what it is. In case there is a refusal to answer, I want
a direction, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. That is right. Tell us in what case in this hearing we
have received testimony that isn't true ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I read the book of Mr. Harvey Matusow.
Mr. Jackson. That is not an answer to the question. I don't care
about Matusow.
Mr. BuRFORD. It is embarrassing to you to hear about Harvey
Matusow.
Mr. Jackson. Let's not get away from the question. There is a
question pending. You have made the statement that this committee
during these hearings has taken unsupported testimony. I want to
know what testimony.
Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1829
Mr. Jackson. I want it on the record.
Mr. BuKFORD. I do not have a copy of the record.
Mr. Jackson. The copy of the record is being made. I want your
answer on the record.
Mr. BuRFORD. I do not have a copy of the record in front of me.
Mr. Jackson. Do you have any proof that this committee has
received any unsupported testimony as you have just stated volun-
tarily ?
Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer. We don't accept the answer
you gave.
( The witness conferred with his counsel . )
Mr. BtTRFORD. Mr. Chairman, I would suggest that the committee
go back into the record of the testimony of Mr. Harvey Matusow who
later said that he had
Mr. Jackson. Just a minute. Don't beat around the bush.
Mr. BuRFORD. I am not.
Mr. Jackson. This is evasive. You said this committee has received
misupported testimony.
Mr. BuRTORD. Did this committee receive testimony from Harvey
Matusow ?
Mr. Jackson. In this hearing ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I didn't say in this hearing. I said this committee.
Mr. Jackson. All right. In what regard was the testimony of Mr.
Matusow before this committee in error ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. BuRFORD. By his own admission.
Mr. Jackson. No. Every witness who has been called as a result
of the Matusow testimony before this committee has taken the fifth
amendment.
Mr. BuRFORD. That is my answer.
Mr. Jackson. Of course the answer is entirely evasive. It was your
intention to say that witnesses who have appeared here during this
hearing
Mr. BuRFORD. Don't tell me my intention. I know what my inten-
tion is.
Mr. Jackson. You say, sir, any testimony which you have heard or
has been taken before this hearing during this week is unsupported ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I have not been here but a short time this week.
Mr. Jackson. You have been here 2 or 3 days. I have seen you in
the corner, which is all right, we are glad to have you here.
Mr. BuRFORD. Mr. Doyle, I decline to answer any comment on any
testimony of any witness before this hearing in this room.
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Doyle, I think the question has been adequately
covered.
Mr. DoTLE. I want to ask one more question on this anonymous
phone situation that you blurted out as you first took the stand. What
did you do ? Did you report it to the police ? If you didn't, why didn't
you ?
You didn't, did you ?
Mr. BuRFORD. No, I did not.
Mr. DoYLE. Of course not.
Mr. Jackson. Did you report it to the Federal Bureau of Investiga-
tion?
Mr. BuRFORD. That is your opinion, Mr. Doyle — "of course not."
1830 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Jackson. You didn't. Did you report it to the Bureau?
Mr, BuRFORD. I made a statement that I didn't.
Mr. Jackson. Why didn't you ? Isn't that the act of a law-abiding
citizen who is threatened over the telephone ? Isn't the logical thing
as soon as the caller hangs up to call the police ?
Mr. ScHERER. His statement in my opinion is pure fabrication.
Mr. Doyle. This began 3 weeks ago, according to your words.
Mr. Bronton. I resent the fact that you sit there and call him a
liar and you do that when you say, "pure fabrication." He is here
under subpena, not to take insults.
Mr. ScHERER. You know the rules of this committte, Counsel.
Mr. Bronton. I know them very well.
Mr. SciiERER. If you can't abide by them, I will ask that you be
cited for contempt.
Mr. Bronton. I think it is contemptuous when any Congressman
calls a witness a liar,
Mr. Jackson. ^Vliy didn't you call the police ? If your occupation
was threatened, if your life was threatened, isn't the normal thing for
an American citizen to do to notify the authorities rather than main-
tain the alleged threat inside himself as a basis for a speech when he
came up here ?
JNIr. Burford. ]Mr. Jackson asked me a question ?
Mr. Jackson. Yes.
Mr. Burford. When you ask questions and supply the answers at
the same time I don't think there is anything further required.
Mr. Jackson. I haven't supplied any answer. The question still
stands. I would like to have the witness tell me why he didn't notify
the authorities that he had been threatened.
Mr. Burford. Mr. Jackson, I made on oath a statement here as to
what happened. I cannot — it is obvious that I cannot prove it. I
did not have a tape-recording machine, I do not have anything mate-
rial to substantiate it. This I would readily say, and readily admit.
However, I do say on oath that I received a phone call.
Mr. DoYLE. One or more ?
Mr. Burford. I received two.
Mr. Doyle. All the same day, or how far apart ?
Mr. Burford. They were a matter of several weeks apart.
Mr. Doyle. When was the first one ?
Mr. Burford, Exact day I do not remember.
Mr. Doyle. When was the second one ?
Mr. Burford. About 3 or 4 weeks after the first.
Mr. Doyle. Didn't you make any record of the dates or the hour ?
]Mr. Burford. I don't keep a logbook.
Mr. Jackson. Not when people call to tlireaten you ?
Mr. Doyle. I would think it would be important as to when people
called and threatened you. What phone number did they call you
over?
Mr. Burford. I decline to answer what phone it was on, Mr. Doyle,
because that would be to accomplish it, help to accomplish the pur-
pose that the caller made.
Mr, Doyle, Didn't you even ask the phone company who called
you ? Didn't you even ask the operator who called you ?
Mr, Burford. No operator involved, Mr. Doyle. We have auto-
matic phones in this town.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1831
Mr. Do^'LE. Of course. Didn't you even rin^: tlie chief operator to
find out if slie could trace where that phone call came from? I have
done that, you know, and I lind it is quite helpful. Let's proceed.
Mr. ScHERER. What is your occupation ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I decline to answer this question under the prerojj^a-
tives that I have under the Constitution of the United States, a consti-
tution that I have sworn in the. past to uphold and to abide by and
which I now swear to uphold and to abide by, and which I will in the
future.
Mr. Doyle. Do you plead your constitutional privileges? If so,
wdiat amendments?
Mr. BuRFORD. Mr. Chairman, I plead the first, the fifth, that amend-
ment which has to do that a person's rights and property wnll not be
taken away from them without due process of law. I don't know the
number of it.
Mr. SciiERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques-
tion because how could his occupation of Modern Lithographic Press
operator incriminate him? I ask that you direct the witness.
Mr. Doyle. I want the record to show, Mr. Burford, in view of the
Supreme Court decision, which is clear to all of us, we are not accept-
ing the answer as you gave it and therefore I instruct you to answer
the question.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. SciiERER. It is obvious he is improperly invoking the fifth
amendment and invoking it in bad faith. No basis for invoking the
fifth amendment.
Mr. BiTRFORD. Mr. Doyle, this committee has toppled people before
this and the Supreme Court has reversed them and slapped this com-
mittee down.
Mr. DoYLE. No. You know w-e have a Supreme Court decision.
Mr. Burford. That is good.
Mr. Jackson. It is in direct line with the Supreme Court injunc-
tions to the committee that this immediate procedure is being followed.
The subcommittee is making it entirely clear on the record that we
believe that your occupation is a matter of proper identification and
we do not accept your refusal to answer for the reason given as being
a proper use of the fifth amendment.
(The witness conferred wnth his counsel.)
Mr. Doyle. We have copies of the full text of the Supreme Court
decisions for the use of any witness.
Mr. Burford. I have, too, Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Jackson. I ask that the direction stand.
Mr. Burford. Mr. Doyle, in line that this question might tend to
imperil my rights under the first and the fifth amendments, I decline
to answer.
Mr. ScHERER. Aren't you the ownier of the Modern Lithographic
Press at 1416 West Seventh Street, Los Angeles, Calif. ?
Mr. Burford. Mr. Scherer, you are reading that into the record for
only one purpose and there isn't anything I can do about it. I am
defenseless under this situation. I declined to answer that question
for the same reasons that I indicated a moment ago, the first and fifth
amendments.
1832 COMMTJNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. ScHERER. Is the information we ha ve in our file correct, namely, ,
that you are the owner of the Modern Lithographic Press at 1416
West Seventh Street, Los Angeles, Calif. ?
Mr. Bttrtgrd. I decline to answer that question as previously stated.
Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the ques-
tion.
Mr. DoTLE. I direct that you answer the question. We don't accept
your answer as sufficient.
Mr. ScHERER. Before he answers, it is my opinion under the circum-
stances that if he doesn't answer that question he is clearly in contempt
of this committee, and if he invokes the fifth amendment I intend to
move at a later date to cite him for contempt. Now he knows how I
feel -about the matter.
Mr. Btjrford. Mr. Scherer, if for no other reason, my concern for
the Constitution of the United States prohibits me from answering
this, but also and specifically because any question having to do with
the operation of the concern that you mentioned might tend to imperil
my rights and privileges under the first and the fifth amendments and
I remind this committee again that the Supreme Court has said that
the fifth amendment is as much for the innocent, protection of the
innocent, as anything else. And by pleading this I in no way stipu-
late that I have broken any of the laws of the United States.
Mr. ScHERER. Have you refused to tell us whether or not the infor-
mation we have with reference to your business is correct, because you
print at this printing company literature for the Communist Party ?
Is that the reason ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I refuse to answer that question for the reasons stated
previously.
Mr. Scherer. Do you engage in any other illegal activity at the
Modern Lithographic Press ?
Mr. Btjrford. Mr. Scherer, you have rather contradicted yourself ,.
you now ask me if I engage in illegal activity and a moment ago that
you were going to cite me for contempt for refusing to answer a ques-
tion invoking the fifth amendment. There is a contradiction.
Mr. Scherer. Yes, because when you answered that question you
said that I may ask you something about the operation of that com-
pany and that gave me an idea. That is the reason I asked you about
the operation of this company.
Mr. BuRFORD. I want it on the record that I decline to answer on
the basis of the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Doyle. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Burford, the committee during the course of
this hearing has been inquiring into the activities of the Southern Cali-
fornia Peace Crusade organization. It has sought to acquire informa-
tion as to how its affairs are conducted, and by Avhom they are con-
ducted.
Are you affiliated in any way with the Southern California Peace
Crusade ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I decline to answer any question relative to my
affiliation with any organization and for the reasons that I have
previously stated.
Mr. Jackson. I have a question I should like to ask. Are you a
member of the chamber of commerce ?
Mr. Burford. I decline to answer that question.
COMMUlSriST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, GALTb'., AREA 1833
Mr. jACKSoisr. Mr. Chairman, I am certainly not satisfied with that
answer.
Mr. Doyle. I direct you to answer.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. BuRFORD. Would you repeat the question, please ?
Mr. Jackson. Are you a member of the chamber of commerce ?
Mr. BuRFORD. No.
Mr. Jackson. Thank you.
Mr. Tavenner. Has the Southern California Peace Crusade em-
ployed you in any respect in carrying out any of its functions ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I decline to answer for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with any of the officials of
that organization?
Mr. BuRFORD. I decline to answer for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not Sue Lawson was sec-
retary of this organization in May 1955 ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I decline to answer for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the Southern California Peace Crusade through
Sue Lawson as one of its officers draw and deliver a check bearing
date of May 9, 1955, payable to Jim Burford in the amount of $45,
and if so will you tell us the purpose ?
I hand you a photostatic copy of the check for your examination.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Btjrford. Mr. Chairman, this question directly relates to the
freedom of the press and the question of — well, that directly relates
to the question of the freedom of the press. I decline to answer for
that reason, but I also decline to answer under my rights under the
first and the fifth.
Mr. DoTLE. Do you publish a newspaper ? I didn't know freedom
of the press applied to a commercial printer.
Mr. Burford. You didn't, Mr. Doyle ?
Mr. Doyle. Not the kind of shop you have.
Mr. Scherer. May I make a statement, Mr. Doyle ?
Mr. Doyle. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. I think I have to admit I made a mistake, I think
the witness properly invoked the fifth amendment when he refused
to answer the question as to his occupation, because it becomes now
apparent that there was something about that occupation that might
tend to incriminate him if he told us in the beginning, and therefore
I acknowledge that I made a mistake and I think he properly invoked
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Burford. I was going to say there is an interesting piece of
history relating to this, at one time people advocated freedom of
the slaves that couldn't get things printed because of the kind of
community pressure and even the pressure of the law applied against
them.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me explain to you the reason for asking these
questions.
The committee w^ants to find out what type of literature was pub-
lished by the Southern California Peace Crusade, and if you printed
it for them you would be in a position to advise the committee as to
those facts. That is the purpose for my inquiring from you about
these matters.
1834 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. BuRFORD. Well, if I were in your position and wanted to find
out what any particular organization printed, 1 would simply go and
get the copies of what had been printed.
Mr. Tavenner. Of course what you would do is subpena the officials
of the company who disbursed tlie information, but if they take the
fifth amendment, you must proceed by some other course and that is
why I am proceeding through the person who may have printed it.
Mr. P)URroRD. I decline to answer the question because of my rights
under the first and the fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Isn't it true that you keep sample copies of the mate-
rials you printed for the Southern California Peace Crusade'^
Mr. BuRFORD. I decline to answer that for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to oiler the check in evidence and ask that
it be marked "Burford Exhibit 1" for identification only.
Mr. Doyle. So received and so marked.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a check bearing date of Mnv 17, 1955,
payable to the Modern Lithographic Press by the Los Angeles Com-
mittee for Protection of the Foreign Born. I will ask you to examine
that check and state what it was for.
Mr. Burford. I decline to answer any questions concerning this
check for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you affiliated with the organization ?
Mr. Burford. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to ofi'er the document in evidence and ask
that it be marked "Burford Exhibit No. 2" for identification only.
Mr. DoYLE. It will be so received and so marked.
Mr. Ta\\enner. Mr. Burford, in the course of the investigation con-
ducted by the committee, it has been ascertained from the issue of the
Daily People's World of June 6, 1051, that there was an article pub-
lished in that paper entitled "Fight Opens and Communist Ruling."
In the course of the article it is stated that a demand was made upon
President Truman to urge the Supreme Court to grant a rehearing in
the case of the 11 national Communist Party leaders and that that
action was taken by the Independent Progressive County Club Council.
It was stated in the article that it was the first step in the Independent
Progressive Party campaign for freedom for the Communist leaders
and repeal of the Smith Act under which they were convicted.
Do you recall anything about a meeting of the Independent Pro-
gressive Party Council at which those matters were discussed — that
is, in June 1951?
( The witness conferred with his counsel. )
Mr. Burford. I decline to answer that question on the same ground
as I previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Isn't it a fact that the Independent Progressive
Party engaged in a campaign in behalf of the 11 Communist leaders
who were convicted under the Smith Act in New York ?
Mr. Burford. Are you stating it as a fact ?
Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you isn't it a fact.
Mr. Burford. I decline to answer any such question on the grounds
of the first and the fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Weren't you a member of the Independent Pro-
gressive Party Council in June 1951 ?
Mr. Burford. I decline to answer for the same reasons.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1835
Mr. Tavenner. Did you later in 1952 become a member of the State
central committee of the Independent Progressive Party?
Mr. BuRFORD. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. In June of 1951, at the time that the Daily People's
World referred to this position of the Independent Progressive Party
to which I have referred, were you a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I decline to answer that question on the same basics
that I stated before.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Max Silver, at one time organizational secre-
tary of the Communist Party for Los Angeles County, and who with-
drew shortly after 1945 from the Communist Party, testified before
this committee on June 24, 1952. At that time he identified you as
having been a member of the Communist Party, and as having been
the labor director of the Independent Progressive Party in the State
of California.
Is there any error in that statement insofar as the reference to you ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I decline to answer that question and all similar
questions under my privileges of the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you the labor director of the Independen*"
Progressive Party in the State of California ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I believe that is a similar question.
Mr. Tavenner. No.
Mr. BuRFORD. Well, I decline to answer that one, too, then, under
the first and the fifth amendments.
Mr. Doyle. Do you ask that line of questions in order to supplement
our information to the effect that the Communist Party was pretty
well initiated and took over control of the IPP in many, many places ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. DoTLE. In other words, it is in line with Public Law 601 to
find out the extent of subversive activities, whether Communist Party
or otherwise, and our information is the Communist Party in Cali-
fornia generally took over membership and control of the IPP in cer-
tain places and certain times. I ought to make that statement to you
so you understand why we are asking those questions.
Mr. BuRFORD. I think I understand.
Mr. Doyle. It isn't a matter of your political belief, but it is a
matter of finding out the effort of the Communist Party to infiltrate
and control the political parties. That is what it is doing now, try-
ing to crawl into the Democratic Party because the IPP didn't qualify
itself as a legal party in California. You Calif ornians ought to wake
up and realize what is going on. Both young and old people are
crowdine: into both these bona fide political parties because they don't
have the IPP any longer as a legal entity, and therefore the Commies
can't control a legal political party because the IPP doesn't exist any
longer as a legal party. Therefore, it is now going into both political
parties.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Burf ord, I want to go back and ask preliminary
questions which I usually ask and have not asked.
How long have you lived in Los Angeles ?
Mr. BuRFORD. Well, I have lived here on and off since about 1930,
I believe.
1836 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Since 1930 have you resided in any other place ?
Mr. BuRFORD. Many places.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived in Oakland, Calif., during any part
of that time ?
Mr. BuRFORD. Mr. Chairman, I have to say to that question that to
the best of my knowledge and belief I have never lived in Oakland, but
for a number of years my occupation was a traveling one and it is very
difficult for me, it would be very difficult for me to list all of the places
that I lived.
Mr. Doyle. You would know whether you lived there for any length
of time or not, 6 months or a year, you wouldn't forget that.
Mr. BuRFORD. Well, I have been in the bay area, but whether I have
lived in Oakland I don't remember.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever used any name other than your own ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I decline to answer that question under the first and
fifth amendments.
Mr. Doyle. We are satisfied with that answer and I direct
you to answer. The United States is entitled to know the people that
live within its borders, surely those who have been using some phony
name or something of that kind. Congress is entitled to know it.
We are investigating the activities or subversive people and sub-
versive groups who are apt to use secret names and other names —
without making any inference as far as you are concerned.
Mr. BuRFORD. I understand that. Anything that has to do with the
question, this general line of questioning that has been proceeding
here, I will decline to answer under the first and fifth amendments.
I so decline.
Mr. Doyle. On what grounds ?
Mr. BuFORD. On the grounds I have just stated.
Mr. Ta%t:nner. Have you used the name Ron Hillyer ?
Mr. BuRFORD. I decline to answer that question for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Burford. I decline to answer that for the same reason that I
have declined before.
Mr. Tav'enner. Have you at any time been a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Burford. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons
I have stated before.
Mr. Tamsnner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Scherer?
]Mr. Scherer. I have no questions.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you.
Mr. Burford, you can get your witness fee there if you want it.
Mr. Burford. I will donate that to the Red Cross drive, Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. I think that is fine of you. They need it.
(Wliereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Tai-enner. Mrs. Anne Pollock.
Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth ?
Mrs. Pollock. I do.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1837
TESTIMONY OF MRS. ANNE POLLOCK, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
NATHAN L. SCHOICHET
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please i
Mrs. Pollock. Anne Pollock.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted you are accompanied by counsel. Will
counsel please identify himself for the record ^
Mr. ScHoiGHET. My name is Nathan L. Schoichet, S-c-h-o-i-c-h-e-t.
I am an attorney practicing here in Los Angeles, and my office is in
Beverly Hills.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a native of California, Mrs. Pollock?
Mrs. Pollock. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Where were you born ?
Mrs. Pollock. I was born in Russia.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to this country ?
Mrs. Pollock. In 1906.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen ?
Mrs. Pollock. I am a derivative citizen of my father.
Mr. Tavenner. When was he naturalized ?
Mrs. Pollock. In 1922.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in Los Angeles ?
Mrs. Pollock. Yes, I do.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you resided in Los Angeles?
Mrs. Pollock. Since early 1932.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession or occupation, please?
(The witness conferred with lier counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. I am west coast director of the American Technical
Society Technoin.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Pollock, we have been engaged in an investi-
gation of Communist Party activities in the area of Los Angeles.
Sworn testimony has been adduced before the committee to the effect
that you were assigned by the Communist Party to engage in certain
Communist Party activities. Will you tell the committee first, please,
when you became a member of the Communist Party, if you did ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. Do you suggest that any testimony that the com-
mittee had before is binding on me ?
Mr. Tavenner. Not at all. My question was to tell us when you
became a member of the Communist Party, if you did.
(The witness conferred with her counsel. )
Mrs. Pollock. Has it been established in the record that I am a
member of t lie Communist Party ?
Mr. Tavenner. There has been evidence here indicating that.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. I ask is that evidence binding on me ?
Mr. TA^^:NNER. Will you answer the question, please? The answer
is not responsive to my question.
Mrs. Pollock. I would like to know whether or not testimony given
about me is binding on me.
Mr. Doyle. It depends on whether or not it is the truth, but we are
asking you whether or not you were a member of the Communist
Party. If you were, when?
Mrs. Pollock. That was not the question that I was asked.
65500 — 55 — pt. 4 5
1838 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Cliairman, I don't understand the question as to
whether the evidence given is binding upon her. As a matter of fact,
the committee has not necessarily accepted it as evidence or anything
else. Basing it upon certain information in the possession of the
committee, a question has been asked of you. If it is not true, then
certainly this is the forum in which to say so.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. Jackson. What was the question ?
Mr. Tavenner. The question was to state when she first became a
member of the Communist Party, if she did become a member. I
am not particular about the form of the question. If the witness is
puzzled by the question, I will change the question.
Mrs. Pollock. I am puzzled because you seem to be assmning a
statement of fact. I want to understand your question.
Mr. TA^^NNER. Let me ask the question very pointedly. Have you
ever been a member of the Communist Party, and if so, when did you
join ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. Jackson. I would make it simpler than that and break the ques-
tion down into two parts.
Mr. Tavenner. I will change the question again.
Have you ever been a membgr of the Communist Party ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. In the context of this inquiry I consider myself in
jeopardy and therefore I invoke the first and fifth amendments to
the Constitution.
(Representative Moulder returned to the hearing room.)
Mr. ScHERER. Mrs. Pollock, you seem to be concerned as to whether
or not the committee has evidence that you are a member of the Com-
munist Part}', or whether it has been established before this committee
that you are a member of the Communist Party. Mr. Stephen
Werel3 testified here just a few minutes ago that j^ou were a member
of the Communist Party. It would go a long way toward making me
make up my mind as to whether his testimony is correct if you answer
the question as to whetlier or not he told the truth, when he said
that you were a member of the Communist Party.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. Doyle. I am sure that during the testimony of Mr. Wereb, I
saw you seated within a few feet of him, so I assume you heard him
name you.
Mrs. Pollock. I heard it.
Mr. DoTLE. I was sure you heard it.
Mr. ScHERER, You remember the question, Witness? Did Mr.
Stephen Wereb who testified before this committee this afternoon
tell the truth when
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. ScHERER. Just a minute. I can see how she can't understand
the question if you are talking to her.
Mr. ScHoiCHET. I am trying to behave here and don't want these
comments against me.
Mr. ScHEKER. Continue to behave, then.
Mr. Doyle. Go ahead, Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. My question, Mrs. Pollock, is whether or not Mr-
Stephen Wereb who testified before this committee this afternoon tes-
COMMXJNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1839
tified correctly when he said that you were a member of the Commu-
nist Party.
( The witness conferred with her counsel. )
Mr. ScHERER. It is no laughing matter at all. Both counsel and the
witness are laughing about the question.
Mrs. Pollock. I am perfectly willing to answer questions but I
want to make it clear I came here and certainly do not expect to have
any kind of pressure. I will do the best that I can. If something
strikes me as funny, you know I might even feel I have the right to
smile and this too, I think, should be permitted.
Mr. ScHERER. I just want it noted for the record what was happen-
ing because the record doesn't show that.
Mrs. Pollock. The record does not also show why I smiled, and I
don't think it is a fitting thing to place into the record.
Mr. DoTLE. Do you feel now, Mrs, Pollock, you are ready to answer'
the question ?
Mrs. Pollock. Yes, sir. Excuse me a minute.
( The witness conferred with her counsel. )
Mrs. Pollock. Before this committee I do feel myself in jeopardy
and I shall invoke the privileges of the first and fifth amendments.
(Representative Jackson left the hearing room. )
Mr. Tavenner. By that do you mean you refuse to answer the
question ?
( The witness conferred with her counsel. )
Mrs. Pollock. Yes.
Mr. Tavexner. You invoke the privilege because, I assume, you
refuse to answer the question ?
Mrs. Pollock. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask the witness a question? It is substantially
the same question, I grant, but I want to ask it in a little different way :
I am not trying to trap you in any way, but I happened to notice you
were within a few feet of the witness who testified that he had personal
knowledge of the fact that you were a Communist. He had your name
listed as you will remember, and read it off with other names.
He made a positive declaration that he knew you as a Communist
because he was one even though it was for the FBI, and it is always
good, we feel as a committee of Congress, when it happens that a
witness on the stand testifies so that the person he names is right in
the room at the same time and hears him testify.
Now you have indicated you heard him testify, naming you. I
am bringing that to your attention because here is one of the cases
where it is possible for a witness to positively deny another witness'
testimony. In other words, he was under oath, you are under oath.
I want to call to your attention that that is the situation and in other
words, it is very fortunate, as we see it, when a witness testifies that
John Jones is in the party, and John Jones hears that testimony, and
then we call John Jones and say what about it, did the witness tell
the truth, or did he lie.
We are giving you an opportunity to tell us whether or not it was
true or false what that witness said about you. That is a good op-
portunity because it doesn't often happen that the person named is
in the hearing room at the same time. I just don't know whether
your counsel was in the room at the same time and heard that testi-
mony.
1840 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. ScHoicHET. I understand.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Pollock, have you ever used the name
Mr. Doyle. Wait a minute.
Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. DoYLE. I laid my foundation. Counsel, for the question I want
to ask. I want to give you plenty of time and not hurry you. I want
you to have every opportunity to confer with your distinguished coun-
sel. Before you confer with him again, I want to ask you now, were
you ever a member of the Communist Party ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. I am going to invoke my privileges under the first
and the fifth amendments, Mr. Doyle, and I decline to answer.
Mr. ScHERER. Do you know Stephen Wereb?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. The same answer. I decline to answ^er on the
grounds previously stated.
Mr. ScHERER. So there will be no mistake, did you see the man
on the stand who testified here this afternoon who was called by the
name of Stephen Wereb. Did you see him on the stand?
Mrs. Pollock. Yes, I saw him on the stand.
Mr. ScHERER. Do you know that man by the name of Stephen
Wereb or by the name of Weber?
Mrs. Pollock. I have already declined to answer that.
Mr. ScHERER. For the same reasons ?
Mrs. Pollock. For the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever used the name Anne Burton?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Tashia Freed ?
Mrs. Pollock. I decline to answer for the same reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you in the hearing room when Tashia Freed
testified ?
JNIrs. Pollock. No, I was not.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether you
have ever lived at 6530 Maryland Drive?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. I will decline to answer that question for the same
reasons.
Mr. Doyle. We can't accept that answer. I direct you to answer
the question.
Mrs. Pollock. I believe that in the context of this inquiry that I
am in jeopardy and that therefore these questions can be refused on
the grounds of the first and the fifth amendments.
Mr, Scherer. You said you believe you are in jeopardy and to per-
tinent questions invoked you have — and I think properly so — the pro-
tection of the fifth amendment, namely, that if you answered the ques-
tions you might be in jeopardy and might be prosecuted or might in-
criminate yourself, so I tliink you have properly invoked the fifth
amendment.
Now what I want to say, IVIrs. Pollock, is this : The 83d Congress
passed a law which gives this committee the right with the approval of
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1841
the Federal court to grant you immunity from any prosecution — that
is, that if such immunity is granted, no matter what answers ycu
give, you wouldn't be in jeopardy, the jeopardy which you say you
fear. We feel you have quite a substantial bit of information con-
cerning the activities of the Communist Party and which would be
vei*y helpful to this committee, and so I am going to ask you now if
the committee should invoke that law and grant you immunity so that
you wouldn't be in jeopardy no matter what answer you gave or bo
subject to any kind of prosecution, would you then answer the ques-
tions we ask you ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. I will answer that I decline to speculate on what
this committee will do and I stand on my answer.
Mr. ScHERER. The same answer you gave before ?
Mrs. Pollock. Yes.
Mr. ScHERER. You feel to answer my question would tend to in-
criminate you then ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel)
Mrs. Pollock. I feel that the answer to this question might involve
me in jeopardy and I don't have to answer the question.
Mr. SciiERER. Maybe you misunderstand me. I am merely saying
that if this committee with the approval of the Federal court should
grant you immunity — that is, should free you from this jeopardy
which you say you fear, and there would be no jeopardy, there would
be no possibility of any prosecution for any answer that you might
give us, if you were freed from that, would you then answer our
questions ?
(The witness conferred with lier counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. T think I Avill make that decision at the time.
Mr. ScHERER. You can see, then, Mrs. Pollock, how there arises
in our mind then some question as to perhaps your good faith in in-
voking the fifth amendment.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.^
Mi-s. Pollock. I am advised by counsel that I have the right to in-
voke the first and fifth amendments without any implications of this
kind.
Mr. ScHERER. You do have the right, but we have the right in view
of what I just said to draw our own conclusions, the same as you have.
Mr. T.WTLNNER. IVIrs. Pollock, were you a member of the unit J-5
of the Hollywood section of the Communist Party in 1938 ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. I will decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you transferred from the unit I mentioned
to the 5Tth assembly branch, section of the Communist Party in 1938'^
Mrs. Pollock. Same answer on the same grounds.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Was Tashia Freed the unit membership director of
your unit?
Mrs. Pollock. I decline to answer that on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to read into the record at
this point an exhibit which was introduced by the witness. Mi-. William
Kimple. He identified this when it was introduced as Exhibit 13
as an original Communist Party document.
1842 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
• It is entitled "Section transfer, transferred from section Hollywood
Unit J-5, name, Anne Burton, real name, Amie Pollock, new address
6530 Maryland Drive, dues paid to January 1938, signed Tashia Freed,
Unit membership director, assigned to section 67th assembly branch
(this card to be given to county membership director) ,"
Were you issued Communist Party book No. 59962 in the name
of Anne Burton ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. I hand this exhibit to you.
Mrs. Pollock. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce a photostatic copy of this Com-
munist Party card in evidence and ask that it be marked "Pollock
Exhibit No. 1," for identification only.
Mr. Doyle. It will be so received and so marked.
Mr. TAi'ENNER. I have before me a blue card
Mr. ScHOiCHET. Just a moment. May I confer ?
Mr. Doyle. Go ahead.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Pollock, I have before me a receipt card bear-
ing date of December 7, 1937, for the same Communist Party book —
that is. Communist Party book No. 59962. Will j'ou examine it, please,
and state whether or not the signature thereon of Anne Burton was
made by you ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. I answer it the same way, Mr. Tavenner, I refuse to
answer on the ground of the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce in evidence the photostatic
copy of the receipt card and ask that it be marked "Pollock Exhibit
No. 2," for identification only.
Mr, Doyle. It will be so received and marked.
Mr. Tavenner. It reads as follows :
I have received membership book, Anne Burton, State of California, District 13,
County LA., City, L. A., section Union J-5, 12-7-37.
Irrespective of any question of membership on your part in the Com-
munist Party, did you receive any directions, instructions, or sugges-
tions by the Communist Party to engage in Communist Party activities
in the Jewish community ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. On the advice of counsel I refuse to answer that ques-
tion on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage in any such Communist Party activ-
ities?
Mrs. Pollock. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has information that there was in
existence in Hollywood at least as late as 1950 a secret group within
the Communist Party whose identity was endeavored to be kept secret
from the rank and file member.ship of the Communist Party. Do you
know anything about the existence of such a secret group ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time a member of such a group?
Mrs. Pollock. Same answer.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1843
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Community Party?
Mrs. Pollock. Same answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Moulder ?
Mr. Moulder. I have no questions.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Scherer ?
Mr. Scherer. Just one question.
How much money have you contributed to the Communist Party,
Mrs. Pollock?
Mrs. Pollock. Isn't that just like asking me if I still beat my wife?
Isn't that the same kind of category ? I beg your pardon. I am sorry.
Mr. Scherer. I will change it. Have you contributed any funds
to the Communist Party ?
Mi'^. Pollock. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Scherer. Then what was wrong with my question of how much
money have you contributed ? The fact is you contributed large sums,
have you not, to the Communist Party and Communist Party front
organizations ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. Would you testify to that under oath?
Mr. Scherer. I am asking.
Mrs. Pollock. You are making the statement, you are not asking
the question. I have tried to answer questions but I object to state-
ments. There are certain statements I would make but because this
is a congressional committee and because of that I have tried hard
not to and I find Congressmen making statements for the press or for
the record. I don't know
Mr. Scherer. You have an opportunity to say if you call it a state-
ment. I said it was a question.
Mrs. Pollock. It is not a question.
Mr. Scherer. If you say it is a statement, we will let it stand as a
statement. Is what I said in my statement mitrue? You have the
right to answer now.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. If you ask the question I will do my best to answer it.
Mr. Scherer. I said isn't it a fact — now, you can answer to that
question "Yes" or "No" — but isn't it a fact that you have contributed
large sums of money to the Communist Party and Communist front
organizations ?
If that is not a fact, you can say "No" ; if it is a fact, you can say
"Yes." If you say "Yes" my next question is going to be : How much ?
But I know what you are going to say. You are going to take the
fifth amendment.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs, Pollock. Thank God I have an attome3^ I mean that.
(Representative Jackson returned to the hearing room.)
Mrs. Pollock. I am calmer now due to the good offices of my attor-
ney. I think we will both agree for reasons that the first and fifth
amendments are in my Constitution — I am not trying to make a speech,
I think we agree the reason they are in the Constitution is so I shall
not be compelled in any way to furnish any kind of evidence which
might tend at any time now or later by any chain to incriminate me.
Knowing that I think I have the right and the privilege to claim the
amendments which I have and I have so done and do now.
1844 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr, ScHERER. I think you do have that right and I thought you
would.
Mrs. Pollock. Well, is that because of personal knowledge of me?
Mr. ScHERER. No ; but I have sat in hearings
Mrs. Pollock. By what right do you have the right to say that? I
don't think you have any, not until I give an answer.
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Mrs. Pollock. I am sorry. Again thanks to you [addressing her
counsel]. Perhaps my work in the community is also —
Mr. ScHOicnET. There is no question before you.
Mrs. Pollock. All right.
Mr. DoTLE. Thank you very much. You are excused.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Mrs. Margaret Vaughn ISIeyer.
Mr. DoTLE. May I ask you to rise and raise your right hand. Do
you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God ?
Mrs. Meyer. I do.
Mr, Doyle. Thank you. Have a chair by your counsel.
TESTIMONY OF MRS. MARGARET VAUGHN MEYER, ACCOMPANIED
BY COUNSEL, DANIEL G. MARSHALL
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please.
Mrs. Meyer. My name is Margaret Vaughn Meyer.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted you are accompanied by counsel. Will
counsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Marshall. Daniel G. Marshall, Los Angeles.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a native of California ?
Mrs. Meyer. No, sir.
Mr. Ta\^nner. When and where were you born ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Meyer. I was born in Philadelphia, Pa., United States of
America.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name, please ?
Mrs. Meyer. M-e-y-e-r.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you move to California ?
Mrs. ]\Ieyer. To the best of my recollection, I am almost certain that
it was the fall of 1987. I can't state positively. I think that was it.
Mr. Tavenner. That is sufficient. What profession are you en-
gaged in ?
Mrs, Meyer, I am a housewife,
Mr, Tavenner, Have you engaged in any profession or trade?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. ]\Ieyer. Mr. Doyle, at this time I wish to stand on my rights as
an American citizen, democratic rights, which the committee has stated
they believe in and I believe in ; I have a right to decline, I am going
to refuse to answer this question under the protection of the Constitu-
tion of the United States, specifically the first amendment to the Con-
stitution, supplemented by the fifth amendment.
Mr. Doyle. Was your question whether or not she had
Mr. Tavenner. What was her occupation, is the substance of it.
Mr. Doyle. We cannot accept your answer and I direct you to
answer the question.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1845
Mr. Marshall. This question is somewhat different than the one
you proposed and I suggest we read it.
Mr. Tavenner. I didn't ask the question the second time. The
chairman asked what I asked and I advised him the substance of it.
If the witness does not understand and wants the question reread we
will have it reread. I didn't ask the question over.
To end the matter, will you read the question.
Mr. Marshall. We want the question read which the chairman said
he was not satisfied with her answer.
Mr. Tavenner. That is the only question I asked.
Mr. Marshall. The chairman didn't say he wasn't satisfied with
the answer to your question. He said he wasn't satisfied with the
witness' answer to the chairman's question.
Mr. Tavenner. No.
Mr. Jackson. What is the original question? The question asked
by counsel.
(The reporter read from his notes as directed.)
Mrs. jMeyer. Will you reread the phrasing of it? I am not sure
of the phrasing.
Mr. Jackson. Have you ever engaged in any profession or trade?
Mrs. Meyer. I am now a housewife. I have been a teacher in the
past.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you last engage in the profession of teach-
ing?
(The witness conferred w^ith her counsel.)
Mrs. Meyer. I believe it was December of 1952 when I last was
actually in a classroom.
Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry, I couldn't hear you.
Mr. Marshall. Let the reporter read it.
Mr. Doyle. December 1952.
Mr. Tavenner. May I ask the witness to reply to my question, please,
as to when it was that she last taught — and I do not like for counsel
to prevent her from answering my question.
Mr. Doyle. She answered it.
Mr. Marshall. She answered it. My only suggestion was when
you didn't hear to have the reporter read it rather than have her
restate it. Let's have the reporter read it if you have any doubt
about it.
Mr. Tavenner. I have a right to ask the witness.
Mr. Jackson. The witness answered the question in an inaudible
manner.
Mr. Marshall. Did the reporter hear it ?
Mr. Tavenner. Do you still hold your teaching credentials ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Meyer. Yes, sir ; I do.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you commonly known by the name of Peggy ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Meyer. I gave you my name, sir, and I refuse to answer ques-
tions on the grounds of the first amendment supplemented by the
fifth in regard to any other name.
Mr. Tavenner. May I ask that the witness be directed to answer?
Mr. Doyle. We cannot accept that answer as sufficient. I direct you
to answer the question.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
1846 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mrs. Meyer. I refuse to answer this question on the pounds of the
first amendment of the Constitution, supplemented by the fifth amend-
ment to the Constitution. I believe I have that right.
Mr. Jackson. No one has questioned your right.
Mr. Tavenner. You stated that your name is Margaret Vaughn
Meyer. How long has your name been Margaret Vaughn Meyer ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Meyer. I decline to answer this question on the same grounds
of my rights under the first amendment supplemented by the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Doyle. We do not accept the answer as sufficient, Mrs. Meyer,
and I direct you to answer the question. I think it is a very reasonable
question to know who you are and how long you have been known by
the name you use.
Mrs. Meyer. I stated my name when first asked, and I refuse to
answer any further questions about my name under my rights on the
same ground previously stated, the first amendment supplemented by
the fifth.
Mr. Tavenner. Was your name Margaret Vaughn on October 17,
1950?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Meyer. I decline to answer for the same reasons, on the grounds
of the first amendment supplemented by the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of an oath of alle-
giance for public employees bearing date 17th day of October 1950,
and I will ask you to examine the signature of Margaret Vaughn and
state whether or not you signed it or made it.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Meyer. I decline to answer this question on the same ground
as previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask
that it be marked "Meyer Exhibit No. 1," for identification only. It
is an oath of allegiance for public employees with the signature
Margaret Vaughn on it, position title, elementary teacher, subscribed
and sworn to on the I7th day of October 1950. On the 17tli of October
1950 were you a member of the Communist party?
Mr. Doyle. It will be received and so marked.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Meyer. I refuse to discuss anything of this nature in the pres-
ence of this committee, it is my right to discuss or not to discuss and
so I refuse to answer any such questions so I wish to decline to answer
that question on the basis of my rights under the Constitution, the
first amendment supplemented by the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Meyer, were you in the hearing room during
the testimony of Mr. Stephen Wereb ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.')
Mrs. Meyer. I do not wish to discuss this. I refuse to answer that
question.
Mr. Jackson. I ask direction. Obviously whether or not she was
in the hearing room at the time any other witness testified is in no
manner incriminating, and I don't accept the answer and request a
direction.
Mr. Doyle. I don't, either. I direct you to answer the question.
It is manifestly pertinent and reasonable.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1847
Mrs. Meyer. I believe it is my right to decline to answer this ques-
tion, which I do on the same grounds as previously stated, the first
amendment supplemented by the fifth amendment.
Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, the answer is still not acceptable so
far as I am concerned. I think it is a pertinent question and I ask
that the witness again be directed to answer.
Mr. Doyle. I direct you again, Mrs. Meyer, to answer the question.
Mrs. Meyer. I should like to ask the reason for asking such a ques-
tion.
Mr. Doyle. We don't think your answer was sufficient nor com-
petent.
Mrs. Meyer. In what way ?
Mr. Doyle. We are not going to argue about it. You can stand
on your rights, whatever your counsel advises you, of course. But I
direct you to answer the question so the record will show very clearly
what we did.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Meyer. I refuse to answer that question, sir, I believe that is
my right and I am so advised by counsel, on the basis of the protec-
tion of the first amendment to the Constitution supplemented by the
fifth, which is for the very existence of protecting the rights of the
citizens of the United States of America.
Mr. Moulder. May I say I want to clarify the record. So far as
I am concerned, I think this idea of directing a witness to answer
the question time after time is a very silly, frivolous procedure.
The purpose of that of course is to advise you that in the event you
fail to answer you may be cited for contempt.
I think after a witness has once been informed of that fact, there
is no reason time after time to say "I direct you to answer."
Mr. Tavenner. Otherwise, they would contend they didn't under-
stand.
Mr. Jackson. I think it is necessary in this case on subsequent
questions relating to that individual which might conceivably be in-
criminating where the invocation it seems to me would be perfectly
proper. However, as to whether or not a witness was in the hear-
ing room at the time any given individual testified is in my opinion
not incriminating, and I want it definitely understood in the record
and for that reason I asked for the two directions and I still do not
accept it.
Mr. Moulder. It just makes a silly show of the committee sitting
here. As a lawyer I want to make my position clear.
Mr. ScHERER. I have to disagree. I have read the Emspak case
and the only reason we do it is because the Supreme Court accord-
ing to my interpretation of the Emspak case makes us do it. I think
it is silly, too. We are bound by it.
Mr. Moulder. That case held the only purpose it served was to
advise the witness they might be cited for contempt. They are ad-
vised. There is no reason to direct them time after time.
Mr. Jackson. I agree the record is clear now.
Mrs. Meyer. Sir, in view of the remarks you have made, I would
like to answer the question a little differently, if I may.
I was here today during all of the proceedings.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear Mr. Wereb testify that he was known
in the Communist Party by the name of Stephen Weber?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
1848 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mrs, Meyer. I decline to answer questions regarding testimony of
any other witness, sir. Mr. Jackson stated that he failed to see any-
thing incriminating in stating whether or not I was here during testi-
mony of another witness, so I decided I would state that I was here
today during this testimony of this other witness. However, I feel
it is entirely my right to decline to discuss any matter referring to
testimony given here. I have that right under the first amendment
and fifth amendment of the Constitution and since there is no due
process or opportunity to cross-examine witnesses as there would be
in a court, I wish to decline to answer the question on those grounds.
Mr. Jackson. With apologies to my colleague, I am going to enter
in the record again the fact that I am not satisfied that one person
heard another person say something in the hearing room is incrimi-
nating in and of itself, and I am going to ask that the chairman direct
the witness to answer.
Mr. Marshall. Why don't you have the testimony of that witness
read and direct questions to the witness about it instead of asking her
if she was here or wasn't here ?
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Marshall, please. I direct your witness to answer
the question.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. SciTERER. While we are waiting for that answer, I might say
that the Supreme Court, in the case referred to, says in short, unless
the witness is clearly apprised, that the committee demands that
answer, notwithstanding his objection, there can be no conviction,
under section 192, for refusal to answer the question.
Mr, Marshall. Am I supposed to hear part of that, Mr. Scherer?
Mr. Spht^rfr. No, that is for the benefit of us who have a little dis-
agreement here.
Mrs. Meyer. The testimony of the witness to whom you refer is a
matter of record and I refuse to answer on the grounds of the first
amendment, supplemented by the fifth.
Mr. DoYi.E. Manifestly we can't accept that as an adequate, j^roper
answer to the ouestion and I direct you to answer. It is an avoidance
of a fair question.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Meyer. Such a question might conceivably tend to incriminate
me. Otherwise, I fail to see why it is being asked. I feel that I
definitely have the right to refuse to answer the question on the first
amendment and supplemented by the fifth.
Mr. Doyle. You have a right to stand on your constitutional privi-
lege. I^o you stand on your constitutional privilege?
Mrs. Meyer. Yes.
Mr. Jackson. Let the record show I consider the question entirely
pro]>er and I do not consider the answer to be a proper use of the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Doyle. Neither do I, but I have directed her twice to answer
it and that ought to be sufficient for her to understand that we don't
accept it.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you hear the witness, Mr. Wereb, state that
Peggy Vaughn, a teacher, was an active member of the Hawthorne
group of the Communist Party ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1849
Mrs. Meyer. That is the same type of question and therefore I
invoke the protection of the Constitution and decline to answer on the
basis of the first amendment supplemented by the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Hawthorne group of the
Connnunist Party ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Meyer. I refuse to answer any questions of this kind on the
basis of the first amendment sup})lemented by the fifth amendment.
Mr. Jackson. Do 3'ou specifically refuse to answer this question?
Mrs. Meyer. I decline to answer this question on the basis of the
first amendment supplemented by the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mrs. Meyer. I decline to answer this question also on the basis of
the first amendment, supplemented by the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you knowingly been a member of the Com-
munist Party at any time since Se])tember 10, 19-i8 ?
Mrs. Meyer, I refuse to answer this question on the basis of the first
amendment as well as the fifth amendment to the Constitution.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Jackson?
Mr. Jackson. Xo questions.
Mr. Moulder. No questions.
Mr. ScHERER. No questions.
Mr. Doyle. I have no questions. Thank you, Mrs. Meyer, and
Counsel.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. I would like to make two announcements.
Mr. Doyle. Will you stand by a moment because it may affect some
of you in the room.
Mr. Tavenner. During the course of the testimony of Mr. Wereb,
mention of the name of Mr. John Houston was made. Mr. Houston
has indicated a desire to be cooperative with the committee. I
thought that it was due him to make that statement now and as an
indication he is not a member of the Communist Party at this time.
I have reason to believe he will cooperate with the committee in
giving such facts as are witliin his knowledge.
A second matter. It has been called to my attention that there is
a Mr. Bert Coffee living in Los Angeles. If that is true, he is not
the person referred to by the witness Mr. Wereb. The Bert Coffee
referred to by Mr. Wereb lives in the vicinitv of San Francisco and
I^ have mqun-ed into it enough to know that it is not the Mr. Bert
Coffee who a short time ago was employed in Los Angeles by the FHA.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Mr. Tavenner.
The committee will stand in recess until 9 o'clock tomorrow
morning.
(Whereupon, at 5 : 30 p. m. the committee was recessed, to reconvene
at 9 a. m. the following day, Saturday, July 2, 1955.)
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE
LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA— Part 4
SATURDAY, JULY 2, 1955
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Lo8 Angeles^ California,
PUBLIC hearing
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met
at 9 : 10 a. m., pursuant to recess, in room 518 Federal Building, Los
Angeles, Calif., Hon. Clyde Doyle (chairman of the subcommittee)
presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Clyde Doyle (chair-
man) ; Morgan M. Moulder, and Gordon H. Scherer.
Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, counsel, and William
A. Wheeler, investigator.
Mr. Doyle. Will the committee please convene ?
May the record show there is a legal quorum present : Mr. Scherer
of Ohio, Mr. Moulder of Missouri, and Mr. Doyle of California act-
ing as chairman.
Are you ready, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. I would like to recall Mr. Wereb at this
time. Mr. Wereb was sworn yesterday.
TESTIMONY OF STEPHEN A. WEREB— Resumed
Mr. Wereb, you described yesterday for us the Communist Party
convention at which the Duclos letter episode was discussed. You
described for us the attendance at that meeting of the Communist
Party functionaries throughout the State of California. You also de-
scribed for us or told us of statements and arguments that were made
on the floor of that convention.
I would like to ask you at this time to go a little more fully into
statements made by several of the leading functionaries of the Com-
munist Party in California, Mr. Schneiderman and Mrs. Yates.
Mr. Wereb. To the best of my recollection there was a meeting held
at the Embassy Auditorium, I believe in the latter part of 1946, and
at this large meeting of functionaries the general s]Deaker or the main
speaker was William Schneiderman, who was convicted under the
Smith Act at the trial 2 years ago.
Mr. Schneiderman spoke very derogatorily of Mr. Truman, our past
president, as to his "A" bomb policy, trying to force on to the world
1851
1852 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
the threat of the A-bomb which at that time only we possessed. But
he also brought to the attention of those present that due to the Social-
ist and Communist gains in Burma, China, Italy, France, Great Bri-
tain, and the rest of the world where Marxism and Leninism now is
a serious factor, where could the ITnited States of America in case of
a war between the U. S. S. R., appeal for help or allies '?
He questioned in his own mind and he put this other question to
those present of about 700 at that meeting as to the foreign policy
that this country led and conducted.
He demanded that the party through all its agencies and all its
forces — forces was the word used most of the time, seemed to be the
party pet word — the forces that are capable of influencing or bringing
about other decisions than the decision of this Government, such as the
immediate demobilization of all American troops and bringing them
home, removal of all labels from relief goods to all countries, no United
States names or any identification whatsoever that it might have come
as a relief or gift package from the United States, and further again
he went into the Marxist training, the extreme care which the party
must under all circumstances give to their new recruits and to their
retraining and their institution into the party. That w^as the general
view and the general speech that Mr. Schneiderman made at that time.
Mr. Schneiderman, I believe, was a member of the national board
of the Communist Party of the United States or a committee member
thereof. Therefore, in my opinion, he could not speak anything
that was contrary to the policy of the Communist Party of the United
States and no one in the United States Communist Party could speak
unless it was a policy of the Russian Conununist Govermnent.
As a proof I could refer back to the Duclos letter, the immediate
U])set of the whole Communist movement in the United States just
by one Frenchman's letter. If therefore that letter had such terriffic
impact, naturally all other directives had their origin.
I have never seen any of the directives myself, but I do know that
whatever any of the literature that came through from Embassy
sources and whatnot, they were almost identical to the policy of the
party that was adopted here in the United States by the Communists.
Mr. Moulder. Do you have any direct knowledge of messages com-
ing from the Russian Embassy to the party leadership here?
Mr. Wereb. Just the regular directives which are I believe sent
through public mail and I believe every embassy has the same type of
literature that tliey send to their constitutents or their subjects and
they have, those letters which I did have or copies thereof, I believe I
have turned in to the Federal Bureau of Investigation at that time, but
they almost identically jibe with every move of the ])arty at that time.
I do not have any of those letters in my possession because they were
very hard to g,et, and only through different sources which I am not
at this time permitted to reveal, received them.
Mr. Moulder. But you do recall of your own personal knowledge
having seen such letters from the Russian Embassy which dictated
the policy to be followed by the Communists in this country?
Mr. Wereb. They were a form letter, understand, they were not a
written individual letter addressed to a certain party, they were a
form letter, and I imagine, this is just purely imaginary or reasoning
on my part that if they were sent to this local office of the Communist
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1853
Party, that they would also be sent to other groups in other cities and
headquarters of the Communist Party elsewhere in the United States.
Mr. Moulder. The point I want to emphasize is ; you know of your
own personal knowledge they were sent to the local Communist or-
ganization here '?
Mr. Wereb. That is correct, sir, and sometimes they were sent to
what were known as supportive members. The Communist Party was
divided into three groups: There were the leadership group, or the
functionary group, whether they be on State, National, or other levels.
Then there were your general membership, what they called the
nucleus of the group. Then there was another group which were very,
very hard to keep track of. I received checks at one time or another,
as donations to the People's World and different drives even as high
as $50 checks. I couldn't tell you who they come from because I am
not permitted to tell you that at this time. In fact, I wouldn't be too
sure because it went further than myself and this came from the third
group of members known as the supportive members.
Now these people actually do not partake in any Communist move-
ments with the exception of the moneys that they give. At one time
there was a report made at one of the functionary meetings that the
Hollywood Club had sent $3,000 as a soup kitchen fund to this United
States Motors strike that I testified to yesterday. They were identi-
fied, only we were told in Nemmy Spai'ks' office, who was head of the
Los Angeles County Communist Party, we were told that this came
from a very loyal actors' group and he was not at liberty to say who
the donors were.
Does that answer your question, sir?
Mr. Moulder. I want to take you back to the contact with the
Russian Embassy that they kept in contact with the Communist or-
ganization here locally and your assumption that they probably pur-
sued the same practice throughout the United States. What period
was that ; what date, approximately ?
Mr. Wereb. That began, sir, the very first letter I saw was at the
inception and I think immediately after the United Nations went into
effect. In other words, also again there was another instance per-
taining to this man Nemmy Sparks. We went to this functionaries'
closed meeting, it was also held at 124 West Sixth Street on the fifth
floor ; and he told us at that time, he said "Now, look, comrades, this
United Nations step is a lot of bunk as far as I am concerned. It
means nothing; it is an avenue, a pavement, a road that we want to
travel on where and how it pleases us, and don't pay too much strict
attention until you get further pai'ty orders." That was the very
first time that I noticed a letter in the office from the Russian Embassy
which I immediately happened to take and forwarded to the proper
authorities.
Now, this letter was of no consequence outside of a directive as to
Marxist or newsworthy policy, I at this time couldn't say because I
don't believe anyone has testified to that and I don't have anything
substantial here to show for that, sir.
Mr. Moulder. I wish to emphasize the importance of it in this re-
spect: That if the Russian Embassy was openly using the mails to
encourage Communist activity in this country during that period of
65500— 55— pt. 4 6
1854 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
time, tlien they probably are still in contact with the Communists,
loyal Communists that are now active or under cover actively en^a^ed
in communism in this country today. If the Russian Embassy was
so conducting its office in that manner, then they probably haven't lost
contact today. How did you identify the correspondence or letters or
documents that came here ?
Mr. Wereb. It said it was Russian Information Service, news serv-
ice, and it was sent by the Russian Embassy from Washington, sir, and
that type of letter has been circulated in this city. It isn't new and I
believe newspapers know of it and they have known of it for a long
time that such letters do exist and such correspondence does exist.
Sometimes it does come under the guise of news and information.
But many, many times in those news and informations there are things
that you can read between lines.
In 1947, I believe, January, was another Communist Party day of
some type or, was it a People's World drive of $75,000? We had a
speaker here known as Oleta Yates, also convicted of the Smith Act 2
years ago in the local Federal courts. This Oleta Yates spoke of fur-
ther Russian policy and the guaranty of communism and socialism in
such countries as France, Burma, Italy, China, Czechoslovakia, and
these countries which are now sadly behind the Iron Curtain. She
spoke how it was possible for these countries to get there. It was
through the Marxist training of the Communist leadership, its core.
Also at this meeting there were about 400 to 450 people at the Embassy
auditorium. She spoke of the possibilities of other countries under
Marxist and Leninist training coming under this said Russian haven.
She spoke very menacingly of the foreign policy of the United States
at that time. Each of them drove the objective of union leaders, union
leaders, absolute labor leaders whether openly or otherwise, to be
Marxist trained, strikes to be Marxist led, all activities are to be
looked at not from a Fascist standpoint but a Marxist and Bolshevik
standpoint. That was the outstanding thing. They switched to the
Bolshevik shortlj^ after the war was closed. I noticed in their press
they avoided during Browder's period the word bolshevism as much as
possible, but immediately afterward, the word became in common use.
Proletariat, all these words which in my mind are very annoying
because I know what they meant and I just knew what they were driv-
ing at, to me they were very alarming so I have noticed them a little
more, probably, than the average person.
There were a number of other things she repeated over and over
again but again, sir, may I call your attention to that, that she too was
one of the very highups in tlie Communist Party in the State of Cali-
fornia. She was a member of the State board of the Communist Party
in the State of California and they do not make statements, no one in
the Communist Party makes statements unless they have either instruc-
tions or approval to make it so. That is all I can say on these two
meetings, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. One of the functions which you performed in the
Communist Party, according to your early testimony, was that of act-
ing as press director for your club. Will you explain your duties
briefly and state wliether or not in the course of the performance of
your duties you had occasion to meet members of the press and particu-
larly the Daily People's World.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1855
Mr. Wereb. I didn't have to refer to my notes here because these are
very outstanding in my mind, being that they took up so much of my
free time. Time allotted to rest in the evening, I spent at this People's
"World drive in order to carry out a sham that I stood for in the Com-
munist Party.
Shortly after I was inducted into the Hawthorne group and I
finished my 10 weeks' course in the workers' school, at the present time
I do not recall how I became a press director and I was instructed I
believe by the executive board of the group as to what I would do
and who I would report to and get further instructions.
I was sent to Second and Spring Street, that is, I think the top
floor they occupied, the publication known as the People's World.
1 met there a person by the name of William Weintraub. This man
gave me application blanks, receipts, receipt books; the application
blanks were to the party, to the Connnunist Party, and subscription
blanks to the People's World, so if there is any doubt in anybody's
mind that they were not connected I don't see why the Herald Express
or some other paper would give me as a representative a card to belong
to any organization or to subscribe or bring some people into the
organization.
I was sent to my group and was told that I was to make a 5-minute
speech at every Communist Party meeting of our group pleading to
those who did not subscribe at that time to buy the paper. We had
had many mobilizations, as they called it, of newspapers which would
take Sunday mornings which I didn't take too much part in because
I was busy with other functions in the evenings and being also
appointed by the People's World known as a Communist as a district
director, therefore I had other Communist groups or clubs in that area
whom I contacted whose press directors I met with, and planned
strategy as to fund raising, as to subscription drives, as to distribution
of papers.
Mr. Ta\^nner. May I interrupt you a moment.
Mr. Wereb. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were those selected as press directors of the Com-
munist Party supposed to represent any particular group of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. Each Communist club, sir, had their own press director.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Attached to the Daily People's World?
Mr. Wereb. One of the offices in the Communist group. That was
a "must." First was your chairman, then your membership chair-
man, your educational director, your press director, your literature
director, your executive committee members.
Mr. Tavenner. I am not certain I understand. Did those press di-
rectors have some function regarding the Daily People's World. I am
not certain whether that is true or not.
Mr. Wereb. The only publication that we were to handle was the
Daily People's World. Occasionally there came a request from some
oldtimer for the Daily Worker of New York or the Sunday supple-
ment thereof, but it was not a "must," so much, because that was ob-
tainable at the Progressive Bookshop and many a time there were free
distributions of it to different groups, but Daily People's World publi-
cation was a "must." That is the reason 1 held the office in the group,
1856 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
was to further financialwise and the subscription drive of this news-
paper.
Does that answer your question, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wereb. Over the period of time these peo])le were known to me
and have met with me at the People's Daily World as district man-
agers. Alice "Ward, Sparks, one of the two is an alias, I combined the
two Sparks, wife of one Nemmy Sparks.
Nathan Shapiro, a little foreign speaking man from the Hollywood
area.
Elsie Monjar, a person whom I have mentioned previously, came to
my home and wanted to find out why I belonged to the Communist
Party.
James Dixon, Arden Westman, Anne Trojan. She was of the Rhetta
group, I believe.
Edwin Hagen was a member of our group and was the person I
described yesterday as being a refugee or an unwanted character from
so many countries.
Ann Chernick. She also was convicted in the Smith case.
These people I have met and these people all were Communist Party
members. I knew them at functionary meetings, I met with them at
Communist groups. Each of them held an office in the Comnmnist
Party.
Every person working with the exception of one whom I have never
seen at a closed meeting but I did see at many of the rallies, as they
called them, they were members of the party.
If you didn't belong to the party directly and openly you were listed
as a supportive member, but you were connected with the party if you
had anything to do with the Daily People's World and the security of
the Los Angeles County Communist Party saw to it that no one had
that job unless you were of the three categories.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the Communist Party assist the financing of
the Daily People's World by any method other than contribution of
funds derived from dues ?
Mr. Wereb. The finances of the Daily People's World to the best
of my knowledge, which I made it my business to find out, was derived
in three ways : Those liberal advertisers, and that was very small, and
the amount was very little, from the commercial side.
There were the funds that were raised by subscription. Then the
party — that is, the Communist Party — was required to put on a fund-
raising campaign at intervals. Each club was required to raise a cer-
tain amount of money besides their subscription. I conducted about
4 or 5 social affairs to this effect which were open to others than only
Communist Party members, but this was for raising funds and I be-
lieve the very first successful fund raising I had in that group which
was previous to any history that they made, I think was $400, the very
first time that I raised funds for them.
This repeated itself at intervals at least twice a year where you were
compelled to raise funds through one means or another.
Of course the balance of the time one got after old subscribers, dis-
continued subscribers, new subscribers, or those who wished to have
them reissued.
The People's World was sent to people by mail, it was delivered
personally, it was distributed at all the riots, all disturbances, all ques-
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1857
tioiiable political meetings. The clubs were taxed for the amount of
bundles that they had taken.
I believe if I am right I took 100 copies to the United States Motors.
The club had no money in the fund at that time because they were
-always short, the county Communist Party took the clubs' funds if
they were over $10, I believe, or in the vicinity of $10, they wouldn't
trust a club with any more than $10.
In other words, you had to function from whatever you could raise
immediately. These papers were distributed at all these doings.
Mr. Moulder. You say one bundle was delivered to United States
Motors. That is rather vague. You didn't follow it up as to what
that meant ?
Mr. Wereb. I distributed those at that riot as long as I could and
as I said yesterday, when distribution got a little too much and tear
gas got too close, I took off.
Mr. Moulder. I didn't understand your statement. In other words,
it was delivered there for distribution among those who were par-
ticipating in the strike at United States Motors ?
Mr. Wereb. That is right, anywhere, sir, where they could get
workers congi-egated and there were many a distribution at shop
gates as they came out and if you couldn't sell it to them, give it to
them, and the club would pay for it.
I also was treasurer for a while to the group in Hawthorne, kept
accurate records. I believe two of us kept records of that club. From
those funds we sent to the People's Word a certain allotment at dif-
ferent periods, at intervals. The People's World to my knowledge
was and still is a Communist publication and all employees, agents, or
distributors thereof are connected with tlie Communist Party, sir.
Any tiling else you wish to know on that, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned a Communist bookstore. Will you
tell the committee whether you know of your own knowledge that
the employees of that bookstore were members of the Communist
Party ?
Mr. Wereb. The Progressive Bookshop employees or director of
the bookstore was always a member of the Los Angeles County Com-
mittee of the Communist Party. That was the county committee.
I do believe that I have a name or two here of that bookstore because
I did have contact with them many times and times when the club
■couldn't pay their bill, I paid it, never mentioned it, because the club
was always in debt for something. Ten dollars was the maximimi
the county would permit the club to have before they taxed you for
something. There was a Lillian Alexander of the Watts Club, a
temporary employee, the wife of one Hershel Alexander, the past
chairman of the Watts Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Which one of the two was chairman of the Watts
Communist Party ?
Mr. Wereb. Hershel Alexander was the cliairman of the Watts
Communist Club. There was a Nettie or the nickname slie used was
Eddie, Baker, a woman. She was in that store continuously — that
is, during business hours or hours appointed by the county, to be open
for the use of different clubs to pick up literature because all Com-
munist literature, pamphlets, directives, books, works of Stalin,
Engels, and all these bums, their books were obtained from this
bookstore.
1858 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
The Communist Party itself at 124 West Sixth Street, just gave
directives, recommendations of what books to get, what literature
to get from this progressive bookshop.
Mr. Moulder. Is that bookshop still in operation ?
Mr. Wereb. I believe that is on Central Avenue somewhere, but
I do not know its present number. That bookstore is still in opera-
tion and still operates the same as ever and is still under the same prin-
ciples. In fact, in Canada at one time they banned bookstores of that
type and we had a man in our group, a well-to-do elderly man, I will
try and find his name for you from our group, he didn't attend meet-
ings very often, but he was a very wealthy elderly man and he bought
most of the books that they had banned from Canada at one time and
we distributed that by mail and by other means, it didn't make any dif-
ference how, we sent them to the city council and mayor of Ingle-
wood, mayor of Hawthorne, everybody got a copy of some type of
Marxist book.
I will try to find the name. I can't recall at this time the name of
the person but he did spend over a thousand dollars, I believe it was
$1,500 that he sent the check for to the Canadian Communist organ-
ization to buy these books and, as I say, they were distributed in the
district and those that were not distributed were sent to this bookstore.
Anything else on that, sir ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
I would like you to tell the committee now wlien it was that you
terminated your connection with the Communist Party.
Mr. Wereb. In the latter part of 1947 I believe that I was going
about 5 nights a week against the advice of my physician, I just
couldn't give up, and I just wouldn't give up, and I kept going to these
places and I paid taxicabs for most of the members that had no trans-
portation, took them to meetings and brought them home and my hours
were sometimes I would say from 7 : 30 in the evening and my owu
personal working hours from 7:30 in the evening, sir, until 1 or 2
o'clock in the morning, after that would be possibly 2 hours of report
writing immediately because I never went to bed until I wrote my re-
ports and finally I had 1 attack of this coronary thrombosis that laid
me up about 3 weeks, I went back again after that, sir, and I had a
very serious one and afterward and the doctor said it is either that
or he says I don't know what you are doing but you certainly aren't
yourself, I have known you for many years, and on the advice of my
physician at the last party I had to leave, and I slowly began to drift
out. I attended less, I paid less attention to everything I had done.
T did it that way in order not to uncover myself or my usefulness to my
Government in case, so up until the time of the Smith trial I was not
in the eyes of the party known as, shall we say, as the People's World
put me "memory machine." or stool pigeon.
In the early part of 1948 my health was still very bad and Mr. Hous-
ton, John Houston, whom I have mentioned as our club chairman,
came to my home and wanted me to siffn up, that is, stay in the part}',
he was alone when he came and I told him, you kiiow I can't partake
fully, I just can't go on the other way, and I played the part of a very
broken man, financially and physically, so I believe that I did receive
3 months' subscription free from the People's World as a gift. That
just about ended it until the Smith Act, sir.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1859
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Moulder ?
Mr. Moulder. I have no additional questions.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Scherer?
Mr. Scherer. I suppose, Mr. Chairman, you are going to express
the thanks and appreciation of the committee to this fine gentleman.
Mr. Doyle. You do it so much better than I do, I will be glad to have
you do it.
Mr. Scherer. I think the testimony of Mr. Wereb speaks for itself.
He has rendered to his country and now to this committee a fine and
outstanding service. I wish there were more Americans like him and
we want to congratulate you and express to you the thanks of the Un-
American Activities Committee and the Congress of the United States
for this fine patriotic service at great personal sacrifice to yourself.
Mr. Wereb. May I thank you, sir, and I wish to thank the people of
the United States for the opportunity that I have had for serving. I
was only too happy to. Of course I am getting a little bit old for any-
thing but at any time I can serve this committee or any organization
representing the free Government of the United States, I w-ill be very
happy to serve.
Mr. Doyle. Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing, if all over the coun-
try men such as this witness would enter into an attitude of mind
toward our Government which makes this witness happy and contented
to serve in terms of real financial sacrifice such as he did ? Isn't that
the spirit that our Nation was born with and isn't that the spirit our
Nation needs really when you come down to it, a spirit of placing our
national welfare against our own personal, material gain.
In other words, the Nation will only be as strong as we citizens are
willing to make it by virtue of being willing to give something to our
country instead of trying to tear it down.
Mr. Scherer. Here is a man if it were possible certainly deserves
a Congressional Medal of Honor.
Mr, Wereb. Thank you, sir, and I am sorry if I have been in some
v;ay inacceptable or some of my words might not have meant what I
meant to say and I repeat, any time in the future you wish to call on
me I will be happy to do anything I can. Thank you.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mrs. Martha Hard. My counsel has not arrived this morning and
he is due to come when he is through with his prior appointment. I
would like to request that I not be called until he comes.
Mr. Doyle. We will be glad not to call you until he comes pro-
vided he comes in time. You are subpenaed to be here and if 3"0u
have arranged for your counsel to be here, he is expected to be here
on time.
Mrs. Hard. I would like to point out, Mr. Doyle, that my counsel
and I were, I was called for yesterday, my counsel and I were here
all day yesterday and we waited. We were told we weren't to be
called yesterday afternoon and we were here until a quarter to 6 yester-
day evening, and I will be very happy to come as soon as he arrives
and that should be any moment.
Mr. Doyle. That is very good. Your counsel is familiar with the
problems of either court appearance or a hearing appearance and
that subpena continues from day to day until it is possible to be
1860 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
heard. That applies to congressional committees as well as to any
other hearing, whether in court or a congressional hearing, but we
will try to cooperate of course as we always do.
But we expect your counsel to be here and if there is any question
about his being here I suggest you call him on the phone and tell
him we are ready for him. We began here at 9 o'clock this morning.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. John Houston.
Mr. Doyle. Will you please raise your right hand. Do you sol-
emnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth ?
Mr. Houston. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN WATERS HOUSTON
Mr. Tavenner. You are John Houston ?
Mr. Houston. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have a middle name ?
Mr. Houston. John Waters Houston.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are not accompanied by coun-
sel, Mr. Houston.
Mr. Houston. No, I am not.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee desires to make it plain that a wit-
ness has the right to have counsel with him if he desires, or the right
to consult counsel at any time during the course of his testimony
should he so desire. You understand that, do you not ?
Mr. Houston. I understand.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Houston?
Mr. Houston. I was born in Bozeman, Mont., September 1908.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Houston. Yes, I do.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in the State of California ?
Mr. Houston. I have lived in California since 1941.
Mr. Tavenner. What has been your principal occupation or trade?
Mr. Houston. My principal occupation I would say would be in
the educational field as a teacher.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your
formal educational training has been?
Mr. Houston. Well, I have a master's degree in the University of
Montana and I have done postgraduate work at the Yale University
and also at UCLA.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you receive your master's degree ?
Mr. Houston. That was in 1934.
Mr. Tavenner. In what field did you receive your degree?
Mr. Houston. It was in English. I had a lot of work in mathe-
matics, too, at the same time.
Mr. Tavenner. Then you went to Yale University ?
Mr. Houston. Yes, I taught school in Montana about 3 years in a
small town, high-school teaching, and then decided I needed to get a
Ph. D. Degree, so I went back east and went to Yale for a year.
Mr. Tavenner. What year was that ?
Mr. Houston. That would have been around 1938 or 1939, one of
those years. 1938 and 1939.
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you take your undergraduate work?
COMMUlSriST ACTrV'ITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES^ CALIF., AREA 1861
Mr. Houston". Undergraduate work at University of Montana at
Missoula, Mont.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that immediately prior to your receiving your
master's work ?
Mr. Houston. Yes, I continued right on into the master's degree.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Houston, were you at any time a member of
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Houston. That is correct, I have been. I was a member for a
short time back in Connecticut, New Haven that would be, and then
I was, my participation in the Communist Party was out here in
California.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Houston. No, I am not. I quit, actually in my own mind I
quit in 1946, I think it would be about May or June that I made the
decision that I was going to get out of the Communist Party, but it
wasn't until 1948 that I got out of the area where I had been active
and saw no more Communists and was not pressured to attend any
meetings, and since tliat date, I would say it would be June 1948,
that would be almost, that would be 7 years ago now, I have seen none
of the Communists whom I was formerly associated with except some
that I have seen here at this hearing today and yesterday.
Mr. Tavenner. Then I understand your break with the party did
not become final and complete until you moved out of the environ-
ment in which you had been living ?
Mr. Houston. That is correct. That is, if you are a member of
the Communist party the party makes every effort to activate all its
members and if you are not active somebody visits you to see wliy you
aren't and you are therefore among those people whom you have
been active with and naturally you will be asked to attend meetings
and do this and do that.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, it was the continuous pressure
brought to bear upon you which kept you in the Communist Party as
long as you did stay ?
Mr. Houston. I would say that, yes.
Mr, Tavenner. And in the communities to which you moved you
have had no Communist Party associations whatever?
Mr. HousTOX. That is correct ; none whatsoever.
Mr. Tavenner. You say you were a member of the Communist
Party when you were at Yale University. May I ask you whether you
had iiad any affiliation with the Communist Party prior to that time?
Mr. Houston. No. Where I first became acquainted with com-
munism at all, strangely enough, was in the library at the University
of Montana where there were some books on the subject. However, to
my knowledge there was no active organized Communist group there
ond I was an age where I read quite a bit and I read Norman Thomas,
the Socialist, first, and he mentioned the Communists and I wanted to
see w^hat the Communists had to say, so I would say I was generally
familiar and in New Haven I attended some, as I recollect, some local
meeting which was of a Communist tinge and there I was persuaded
to get in and I did participate to some extent, though my main interest
was in schoolwork but there were no Communists I knew of at the Uni-
versity of Yale, and I had no contact with them if there were.
Mr. MouEDER. AYliat was your age at that time ?
Mr. Houston. My age at that time would be around 30 years old.
Mr. Moulder. You were then a student at Yale ?
1862 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Houston. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has received evidence regarding
Communist activity at Yale, but as I understand it, you knew no one
connected with the teaching profession at Yale University who was a
member of your group, is that correct ?
Mr. Houston. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. What was this group of the Communist Party that
you belonged to there ? Was it an organized group of the student body
or of the community ?
Mr. Houston. It was of the community in the area where I lived.
Mr. Tavenner. No connection with the University ?
]Mr. Houston. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. That was in 1938-39 ?
Mr. Houston. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee, please, a statement of
your employment record ?
Mr. Houston. Well, I was employed, as I said, I worked in Mon-
tana as a school teacher for 3 years in a small town, Twin Bridges,
Mont.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any Commimist Party affiliations dur-
ing that period ?
Mr. Houston. None whatsoever.
And I attended Yale after that and after that I went to Washington,
D. C, and I worked for the Republican National Committee for a
while as a research assistant and at that time I was not connected
with the Communist Party whatsoever, so I hope the Republicans
aren't embarrassed.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain in Washington, employed
in Washington ?
Mr. Houston. That would be approximately a year or a little better.
Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live while employed in Washington ?
Mr. Houston. Arlington, Va.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the address ?
Mr. Houston. No ; I am afraid I can't.
Mr. Tavenner. 800 North Fillmore Street ?
Mr. Houston. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Washington Book Shop
while you lived in the city of Washington ?
Mr. Houston. Not that I recollect. I think I may have gone there
now that you mention it.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your next employment ?
Mr. Houston. My next employment was, I came out to California
and began to work for the Douglas Aircraft.
Mr. TA^^ENNER. Where was that ?
Mr. Houston. Santa Monica plant.
' Mr. Tavenner. What year ?
Mr. Houston. That vrould be 1041, I came in August I believe of
1941 and started right there after September.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain employed by the Douglas
Aircraft ?
Mr. Houston. I worked for them for 4 years, 1941 through 1944,
I think, 3 or 4 years.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your next employment ?
Mr. Houston. At Northrup Aircraft Co.
Mr. Tavenenr. Where is that located ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1863
Mr. Houston. That was in, let's see, that would be Inglewood or
Hawthorne, I guess it would be ; yes.
Mr. Tamsnner. That employment began about the time of the ter-
mination of your employment at Douglas Aircraft ?
Mr. Houston. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain employed ?
Mr. Houston. To 1946.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your next employment after 1946 ?
Mr. Houston. After 1946 1 attended UCLA in attem]3ting to get
that Ph. D. which I started at Yale, but financial difficulties were too
much. I was working and working at the university as assistant
instructor and working on the side and my wife was working and it
was just too much vrork, that is all, I wasn't young enough to take it.
So that ended about, when would it be, I was there 2 years — 1948.
Mr. Tavenner. What did you do next ?
Mr. Houston. Then I went to work for Allied Fur Industry which
was a fur farming company. They raised chinchilla and mink.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did your employment continue there?
Mr. Houston. That would be I would say 2 years I worked for them.
Mr. Tavenner. That would bring you up to approximately 1950,
would it not ?
Mr. Houston. Yes.
Mr. TA^^ENNER. What was your next employment ?
Mr. Houston. Then I worked for El Camino College, teacher of
mathematics, 2 years.
Mr. Tavenner. And vour employment there was terminated in
1952?
Mr. Houston. Correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Did your former Communist Party membership
have anything to do with the termination of your emjiloyment there?
Mr. Houston. Yes ; it was. The president called me in to his office
one day and told me that my name had been published in the paper,
I hadn't read it, and asked me pointblank if I was a Communist. I
told him "No," and he asked me if I had ever been and I said I had
been, and told him about it and he asked me if I was through with it
and I said I was, but he felt that the board would be, he already had
some, trouble in that respect with some other teachers I guess and he
though it would be better, he didn't think the board would go along
with rehiring me next year, although he would have supported me,
and I just resigned and decided that teaching v.'as out, and I quit.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, let us go back to the time that you arrived in
California, in approximately 1941, from Washington, when you be-
came employed at the Douglas Aircraft plant. Plad you affiliated with
the Communist Party in California before being employed by the
Douglas Aircraft plant, or was it after?
Mr. Houston. I would say after, I believe.
Mr. Taat.nner. Will you tell the committee, please, the circum-
stances under which you affiliated with the Communist Party in Cali-
fornia?
Mr. Houston. I don't exactly recall them. I had had of course
this general interest in communism, had been in it, and as I recall I
probably attended some meeting or other and then probably said I
would join up.
1864 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. In what group of the Communist Party did you
become a member?
Mr. Houston. I became a member of the Hawthorne-Inglewood
group, the Hawthorne Chib, I guess it was at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you affiliate with any other unit or group of
the Communist Party in addition to the Hawthorne group?
Mr. Houston. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Your membership was confined to the Hawthorne
Club?
Mr. Houston. The Hawthorne club, that is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall or will you tell the committee more
in detail about how you became a member of the Hawthorne Club?
Mr. Houston. Well, that is quite a while back and the exact cir-
cumstances I don't believe I can recall, except the usual procedure
would be where at some meeting you indicated your interest and
were apj^roached by some active Connnunist and then were inducted
and put to work.
(Representative Moulder left the hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Who was the active Communist that saw you ?
Mr. Houston. I don't know. I presume it would have been Vernon
Potter. That is my guess. I am not sure.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you employed in aircraft, from 1941 until
1916 while you were a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Houston. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Were there any other members of the Hawthorne
group of the Communist Party who were employed in either of these-
two plants, airplane plants, in which you were employed?
(Representative Moulder returned to the hearing room.)
Mr. Houston. I don't remember any that worked in the Santa
Monica plant and in the Northrup plant there was one girl whose
name I can't recall now who came into the group from I don't know
where and went out. She was a pretty militant person and that is all
I can recall in tlie ])lants that I worked.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has heard from time to time of
emphasis that the Communist Party put upon Communist Party
organizational work within industry. Can you tell the committee
what effort was made to do organizational work within the industry
in which you were employed?
Mr. Houston. Well, the emphasis was of course to recruit workers
and the party made every effort to have its members working in
industry to try to recruit other people in the plant they were working
in into the Communist Party. I didn't do that. I don't remember
recruiting any person whom I worked with into the Communist
Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell the committee what effort was made
by others to recruit from your particular industry ?
Mr. Houston. Well, it seems to me if I remember correctly there
was the industrial work of the party that was handled by industrial
units, at least that occurred sometime in the history of that group,
while I was there, that the members, if you were working in a par-
ticular plant and they organized a group maybe where workers didn't
live near you but were Communists and in the same plant as you all
meet together as a group. My recollection is that it wasn't ver}'
effective work done there in that respect.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1865
Mr. Tavenner. Was the Hawthorne group considered an industrial
unit or was it — —
Mr. Houston. It was a geographical grouping. Later on it was an
assembly district grouping.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with the names of industrial
groups that were organized within the airplane industry ?
Mr. Houston. Some clubs were named after people who were re-
spected in the movement. I can't offhand — let's see
Mr. Tavenner. I am not sure I made the question clear, I want
to know whether there were any industrial groups of the Communist
Party in which the membership was from the airplane industry.
Mr. Houston. Yes, there was an aircraft group I am sure, a group-
ing of the aircraft workers.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever meet with them ?
Mr. Houston. As to that I don't recall. I may have at some time
or other, but I would attend simply as an observer, I guess, from my
group. Or perhaps it was this I heard at a section gathering of some
kind of functionaries they were going to have such a meeting.
Mr. Tavenner. It was the practice in the Communist Party, was it
not, to have meetings of functionaries where the functionaries repre-
sented the various units such as the industrial units of the Communist
Party and neighborhood units ?
Mr. Houston. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you give the committee the names of the func-
tionaries from any of these industrial units in aircraft ?
Mr. Houston. Well, I am sorry, I can't at this time because I have
a lapse of memory, I don't recall them, I didn't have much connection
with them. My work was primarily in this assembly district group-
ing and mainly concerned with routine duties of trying to get people
to meetings and People's World drives and that sort of thing.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you become the chainnan of the Hawthorne
group of the Communist Party?
Mr. Houston. I did at one time for a short period of time.
Mr, Tavenner. Were you acquainted with the witness who just
preceded you on the stand, Mr. Wereb ?
Mr. Houston. Yes, I was. He was very active in our group and I
met him at his house a number of times.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you and a person by the name of Monjar engage
in a security check at his home on one occasion ?
Mr. Houston. Yes, I think we did put him on the frying pan and
that would be — I was attending UCLA, most of the time as I said I
had o jobs, trying to go to school and 2 jobs on the side and I did on
some occasions participate. As I remember, I was called to Elsie
Monjar's and said they were going to ask him some questions about
Steve and we went over there. I believe she did most of the talking.
Mr. Tavenner. You were called to her house to be advised to go
with her over to Mr. Wereb's home ?
Mr. Houston. That is right,
Mr. Tavenner. What was told you as the purpose of this trip ?
Mr. Houston. The purpose was to question him about his lack of
understanding of Marxism and the question was, as he put it: "Why
are you in the Communist Party?"
1866 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
The idea would be to question liim and see what his background was
and what his understanding of the party philosophy was and as I.
remember it came out, at that inquiry it came out that he was given a
clean bill of health,
Mr. Tavenneh. Mr. Wereb has advised the committee as to what
occurred at the first Communist Party meeting that he attended when>
you were introduced to the group as the newly elected chairman.
Mr. Houston. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the occasion ?
Mr, Houston. I do, although it seems to me that that wasn't the first
time he was inducted into the party, but the remarks there I find it a
little hard, I don't remember myself ever thinking at that time in that
way of this country being a state of the Soviet Union, or words to that
effect, and of course Steve wrote it all down at the time and I have
only my memory to put against his fact taking, I would say.
My recollection, if I said it, I didn't mean it that way and I think
that it is twisted a little, even Wereb can make mistakes in getting stuff^
down. The reason I was in the Communist Party primarily at that
time I think was because we were in the war, we were fighting the Ger-
mans and the Russians were on our side and the Communists were
fighting for the war effort, supporting it in every way, and that was
chiefly it.
Mr. Tavenner, Wasn't it the Communist Party view at that time
that the United States should be made a Soviet state, whether it be a
Soviet state under the leadership of the Soviet Union or just a Soviet
state?
Mr. Houston. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. There may be a question ?
Mr. Houston. Correct, that is the objective of the Communist
Party.
Mr. Tavenner. To make the United States a Soviet state ?
Mr. Houston. That is correct, I would say that is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. If I understand you correctly, you do not deny hav-
ing made the statement attributed to you by Mr. Wereb ?
Mr. Houston. Well, I will say this for the record, that I think I
am misquoted or quoted out of context in such a way as to give a mean-
ing which I don't believe I ever intended to give That is, as I can
remember, I never thought of making this country a subject part of
the Russian setup.
Mr. Tavenner. But after all, there is very little distinction, isn't
there, in fact between making this country a part of the Soviet Union
and making it a Soviet state, actually there is very little distinction,
isn't there ?
]VIr. Houston, Perhaps there is a distinction.
Mr. Doyle. As I understand your testimony, it is that you do state
that you realized that the Communist Party during the time you were
in it had the objective of making the United States of America a
Soviet state, is that correct?
Mr. Houston. I would say yes,
Mr. DoYLE. All right, if you say yes, there isn't much difference be-
tween what you say now and Mr. Wereb's statement that was their
objective, and he heard you say tliat their objective was to make it
the 18th because if tliere are only 17 states in the Soviet Union and
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1867"
this became a Soviet state, it would be the 18th state, wouldn't it,,
and tliat is what he said you said, so you are not far apart, are you?
Mr. Houston. Probably there is a distinction without a difference.
That is, I thought, my understanding at that time would be that this
country would have a setup like the Russians, but its own setup.
Mr. Moulder. Independent of the U. S. S. R. ?
Mr. Houston. Yes, going along with it
Mr. Moulder. That was your thought at the time ?
Mr. Houston. Yes.
Mr. Moulder. But not a part of the Soviet Union dominated by
another foreign country? Was it your underetanding that it was to
be made an independent Soviet state? Is that the way I understand'
you ?
Mr. Houston. That is my understanding of it.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Moulder, you and I may agree but politically I
can't conceive of the Soviet Union getting enough control over the
United States of America to have it turn into a Soviet form of govern-
ment without the Soviet Union and Russia controlling it; do you?'
If they give us birth as a Soviet state, sure they are our parents.
Mr. Moulder. Don't misunderstand me. I am trying to get his
thought about the matter; I Avasn't expressing one of my own.
Mr. Doyle. In other words, we become their Soviet buby and they
nurse us until we are adults and then they continue to feed us, sure.
My belief from what I read and know is that they definiftjly intended
to tie us under their apron strings and give us birth as a Soviet state
and then keep us tied to tlieir apron strings. Why not? That would
give them control of the world and that is what they are after, of
course.
Mr. Moulder. May I make the statement there is no contention or-
argument about that matter. This witness just seems to construe
what I said differently from what the previous witness testified to.
Mr. Houston, I would say my understanding at the time — right,
now I say well, it is a distinction without a difl'erence.
Mr. Doyle. You did say, however, that of course you recognized
that the witness made notes.
Mr. Houston. That is right.
Mr. Doyle. You don't questioji his accuracy ?
Mr. Houston. Well, I wouldn't say he is a hundred percent accurate-
in detail. We are all human, liut as I say, I can't put my memory
against his writing afterward, but maybe I said it.
Mr. Doyle. You may have said it in the enthusiasm and context of
a Communist Party meeting?
Mr. Houston. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. At any rate, he wrote it down and as you say his notes
are probably more accurate than your memory.
Mr. Moulder. May I say again. Witness, as I understand it, you.
do not affirm nor deny that, but you are making an explanation of a,
possible error on his part in construing the meaning of your statement?
TM"!-. TToTTSTON. rV)7-rect. I accent that.
Mr. Moulder. I don't know why the witness should be compelled
to be placed in a position of perjury.
Mr. Doyle. 1 don t, either, i iiad no intention in trying to clarify
what I understood to be the witness' testimony. I had no intention of
1868 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
placiiifr you in the position of falsifying or anything ol the sort. I
want the witness to understand that.
Mr. Houston. Thank you.
Mr. Tavenner. You heard the names of the persons identified by
Mr. Wereb as members of the Hawthorne group of which you were
chairman ?
Mr. Houston. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of that group during the entire
period Mr. Wereb was a member ?
Mr. Houston. I was.
Mr. Tavenner. As far as you know was there any error in his
identification of members of the Hawthorne group ? You heard his
testimony.
Mr. Houston. I would say it was substantially correct, although
I believe it is only fair to say that a number of those people were what
would be classified, according to the Communist Party at that time,
as deadwood, that is, people who are inactive. And maybe attended
a meeting and the active membership certainly made valiant efi'orts
to get them out to the meetings, but I say in the main the list is correct,
although I will have to state to be truthful that I can't remember all
those names. I don't recall all those names.
Mr. Scherer. Mr. Houston, that is true with a lot of organizations;
isn't it ? They have a large membership or a membership and only a
few are activ* and attend meetings and it is a constant struggle on the
part of the active members to get out the inactive ? That happens in
about every organization ?
Mr, Houston. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. That happens in church. We do not have enough
people out to church on Sunday.
Mr. Houston. That is right; true.
Mr. Scherer. Yet they are members of the church,
Mr. Houston. That is right.
Mr. SciiERicR. It is those what pay the dues that help support the
organization and provide for the activities of those who are active.
Mr. Houston. That is correct.
Mr. Moulder. Inasmuch as you have liad the courage to come before
the committee and frankly admit your former Communist Party
affiliations and participation in the cell or branch of the party, that
you testified about, don't you wish to make some explanation, I
believe you should be entitled to make some explanation of the cause
or reason which induced you to become a member of the Communist
Party and also what influenced you to become an active member in
participation in Communist Party affairs,
Mr. Houston. As near as I can say on that, I have wondered about
that myself here tlie last 6 years particularly the last few weeks, I
would say that probably it is probably my background. I had a rather
tough time at home, I was young, we had hardships, didn't have enough
money in our family, there was a lot of dissension in the family, and
the Communist Party, what attracted me to it, was this positiveness
with which they seemed to hold their opinions and the people in it,
I think that is what attracted me to it. And the theory of it, to my
mind the revolutionary aspect of it I more or less in my mind brack-
eted with the early history in Eussia and I didn't buy it, didn't think
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF,, AREA 1869
in terms of that actively here in this country, and at the time I was
in the Communist Party it was what was called a revisionist period.
That side of the party was soft pedalled, it was only after the Duclos
letter that I began to really think the thing out a little bit and see
that I was not for that. I am not a revolutionist and I don't believe
in it. That is all.
I want to take this occasion for all the people who formerly knew
me in the Communist Party to say that I in 1946 in my mind I quit
and I quit for good. I rejected it.
Mr. ScHERER. Did j^ou find the answer to those problems you had
in your youth in the Communist Party ?
Mr. Houston. Well, there was a lot of activity and, no, I didn't
find the answer to my problems of my youth. The only thing, as I see
it now, is I just grew up and became a little more practical and began
to see the world as it really is and to see that American people aren't
going to buy communism. They haven't bought it and we will work
out our own destiny in this country.
Mr. ScHERER. That was a good statement. ]Many of us as young
people had financial problems.
Mr. Houston. That is true. There are people in the depression
that had a difficult time, more difficult even than I had and they
never became interested in the Communist Party.
Mr. SciiERER. You would say that the ideology of communism is
attractive ; wouldn't you ? On the surface it is attractive. It would
have to be attractive to attract the masses.
Mr. Houston. The youth particularly.
Mr. ScHERER. Actually, did it practice what it preached ?
Mr. Houston. No.
Mr. ScHERER. The ideology doesn't emphasize revolution, that is
what 3^ou wanted to tell us i
Mr. Houston. I would say that the Communist Party is the revolu-
tionary party.
Mr. ScHERER. Does it emphasize it, though ?
Mr. Houston. That aspect of it is kind of left in the background.
It is really only what you would call the mature Communists that think
that.
Mr. ScHERER. That is, the hard core.
Mr. Houston. The hard core.
Mr. ScHERER. That understand it.
Mr. Houston. Yes, that understand it.
Mr. ScHERER. In other words, when you joined the party you may
not have joined if you had known the substance of the Duclos letter
at that time ?
Mr. Houston. I don't think I would have.
Mr. ScHERER. The actual and real purpose of the Communist Party
is often hidden insofar as new members are concerned or in many
cases insofar as the ordinary, average, inactive member is concerned?
Mr. Houston. Yes ; I would say it is.
Mr. ScHERER. But there is no question in j^our mind no^v that its
main objective has prompted men who have sought power and domi-
nation over other peoples from time immemorial, namely, power and
domination and control.
Mr. Houston. Yes.
65500— 55— pt. 4 7
1870 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF,, AREA
Mr. Doyle. May I ask a question there :
Witness, I have never met you, I am sure, never spoken with you.
If you were listening over the radio or if the newspapers were able
to print all you have said about the Communist Party being a revolu-
tionary party, which I know they can't possibly do for lack of space
and other reasons, but if any young people of the teen age or about
that, high school or college age, were thinking in terms of either stay-
ing in or joining the Communist Party, sliould ask your experi-
ence— you are a college man, were graduated— if those young people
should ask you your advice as to whether to stay in the Communist
Party or of getting into it, what would you say to them?
Mr. Houston. Well, I would say that what they ought to do is to
work in the traditional American way for whatever reforms they think
necessary ; that the Communist Party is not the answer.
Mr. ScHERER. That is what we all agree, as long as the majority
of the people in this country would agree on a different form of gov-
ernment and that different form would be brought about through
constitutional means, nobody could object.
Mr. Houston. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Houston, were you connected or affiliated with
the Communist Party in any manner while you were employed as a
teacher at college that you mentioned ?
Mr. Houston. La Comita College ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Houston. I was not. That was after 1948, I completely disas-
sociated myself. I didn't see any Communists or had nothing to do
with them.
Mr. Tavenner. After you received your subpena to appear as a
witness in this hearing, did you get in touch with the staff of the
committee ?
Mr. Houston, Yes; I did. I received a letter to the effect that any
person who was so subpenaed and had any questions to ask could meet
with the counsel of the committee and I did. Prior to that, 2 years
prior to that I was visited by the FBI and asked about my connec-
tions and since I had quit, and determined to have nothing more to
do with it, I told them what I knew about it,
Mr, Tavenner. You voluntarily told counsel for this committee
that you were willing to testify here,
Mr, Houston, That is right,
Mr. Tavenner. And desired to do so ?
Mr. Houston. That is correct.
Mr. Tavenner. And you were advised by counsel that you would
be given every opportunity to state the reasons for your going into
the Communist Party and the reasons for your getting out of it ?
Mr, Houston, Yes,
Mr, Tavenner. You have already in answer to the questions of the
committee members pretty well covered that field, but if there is
anything else you desire to say as to the circumstances under which
you got into the Communist Party and the circumstances under which
you left, I want to give you an opportunity to say it,
Mr, Houston, I don't believe that I can add any more to what I
have said,
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1871
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Moulder ?
Mr. Moulder. Nothing other than that I wish to commend you for
your straightforward testimony before the committee, the admissions
which you have made concerning your Communist Party affiliations
and which certainly should not in any way have any unfavorable
reflection upon you or you as a citizen in your occupation or work
you are doing.
Mr. ScHERER. I agree with Congressman Moulder that there should
be absolutely no sanctions against this man of any kind or nature
by employer or fellow citizens whatsoever.
Mr. Doyle. I feel the same, Witness, of course. I want to ask you
one question, if I may, about the Duclos letter.
I have heai'd many witnesses, I have read much on the subject, and
from your testimony about the effect the Duclos letter had on you,
it awakened you to the fact that the two systems, the Soviet system,
and the American system could not exist side by side in the same
world; is that true? That was the claim of the Soviet Union party
through the Duclos letter ?
Mr. Houston. Yes; it indicated that the Communist Party was
going to become a revolutionary party.
Mr. Doyle. And that is as we have understood it and I think that
came to this country in April or May, 1945.
Mr. Houston. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. That is as I recall it. And as I said the other day,
I have come to make a good deal of allowance for people wlio went into
the Communist Party prior to April or May 1945, but I still don't
undei'stand Iioav any person could stay in the Communist Party very
long, say a year or two or even iii some cases three, after April 1945.
If you allow 1 or 2 or o years for any patriotic American citizen to
comprehend the significance of the Duclos letter, and then if they still
stay in the Communist Party, tliej' stay in with their eyes open and
they are a revolutionary party.
That is my position on it. I want to commend you for what you
have done and may I urge you to do everything in God's world that
you can to overcome maybe even the little damage that you may realize
you did while you were in it.
With your great ability and now your devoted dedication to your
country as contrasted to what you were dedicated to even as a scholar,
won't you devote some of your material and spiritual resources and
your fine education to helping even teen-agers, because you have had
a great education in the university.
Mr. Scherer. I think by his appearance here on the stand he has
done that in a great measure.
Mr. Doyle. I know that, Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. I know what you mean, but I just wanted to comment.
Mr. Doyle. Still you are in such a strategic position, won't you think
in terms of putting out some of your fine ability and educational re-
sources to counteract that. We urge you to do it, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman, may I add that all of us if we had
had the power of f rontsight as good as our hindsight' might have
changed the course of conduct of our lives.
1872 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
I merely wish to add to what has already been said, that I hope this
committee will cooperate in every way possible in the event your
testimony and honest admissions and statements here before the com-
mittee, in injury to you results. If that occurs the committee should
cooperate to render you such assistance as it can to rehabilitate your-
self Qr to adjust any injury that might come about as a result of your
appearance before the committee.
Mr. Houston. Thank you.
Mr. DoYUE, That is our established policy all over the country and
we will be glad to apply that to you, sir.
Mr. Houston. I appreciate that.
Mr. Doyle. Are there any other questions of the witness ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Scherer ?
Mr. Scherer. I have no questions.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Harry Hay.
Mr. Hay. May I beg allowance of this committee to have counsel
sit on the right hand side. I have very poor hearing on the left.
Mr. Doyle. Yes, indeed. Counsel should always be in the right.
Let's adjourn for 5 minutes before you are sworn in.
(Brief recess.)
Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Hay. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you.
Let the record show that the committee reconvenes after the recess
and that a legal quorum of the committee is here, Mr. Scherer, of
Ohio, Mr. Moulder, of Missouri, and Mr. Doyle, of California.
TESTIMONY OF HARRY HAY, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
PRANK PESTANA
Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, sir?
Mr. Hay. My name is Harry Hay.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted you are accompanied by counsel. Will
counsel please identify himself.
Mr. Pestana. Frank Pestana, P-e-s-t-a-n-a.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Hay ?
Mr. Hay. April 7, 1912, in Worthing, England.
Mr. Tavenner. AVhen did you first arrive in this country ?
Mr. Hay. ISfy father and mother were American citizens at the
time of my birth and the family returned to the United States at the
end of 1916.
Mr. Tavenner. Therefore you are an American citizen.
Mr. Hay. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Hay. We came here to Los Angeles in 1916, and we have been
here ever since.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation, please, sir?
Mr. Hay. I am a production control engineer.
Mr. Tavenner. In what industry ?
Mr. Hay. We make burners and boilers for basic industry.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1873
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your
formal educational training has been ?
Mr. Hay. Yes; I would say that in the beginning the position of
production control engineer up until about 1947 or 1948 did not have
regular university training so that my education for that is partly
formal and partly applicatory in the field. I will do the best I can
in that field, 6 years of grade school, 3 years of junior high school.
Because I was graduated from high school before I was 14 I went
through 3 years and dropped back and took 2 additional years of
electives so I had 5 years of high school.
Two years at Stanford ; financial difficulties made it impossible for
me to continue, so that in preparation for the type of work I do now,
I had a]Dproximately 2 years in historical research, 1 year in record
research, 1 year in market analysis, 1 year in actual practice as a
foundry man, 3 years, 1 year in architectural^ — —
Mr. Tavenner. I didn't mean for you to go into the detail of stating
your curriculum.
Mr. Hay. I suggested these things because to speak of yourself as
a production control engineer without a degree sometimes seems a
little strange. Would you like me to stop now ?
Mr. Tavenner. If you have covered in a general way, that is suf-
ficient. If you have not, I don't want to limit you.
Mr. Hay. I would simply want to mention 3 years as a small tool
analysis and material planning and 2 years in production planning.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you also engaged in the profession of teach-
ing in addition to the other occupation which you mentioned ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Hay. My Chairman, I must decline to answer that question
on the first and the fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you had any training in music ? ,
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Hay. I must decline to answer that question on the first and
fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Investigation by the committee discloses that under
the schedule of classes for the winter of 1950 of the California Labor
School you were an instructor of a class in music and the people's strug-
gle through the centuries. Did you actually teach such a course in
the California Labor School ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Hay. Mr. Chairman, I am compelled to answer by declining
to answer your question for the reason of the first and the fifth amend-
ments.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether the Communist Party in
Los Angeles on the county level selected persons to teach in the Cali-
fornia Labor School ?
Mr. Hay. I beg your pardon. Is that the whole question?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Hay. Would you repeat it ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, I will try to repeat it.
Do you know whether or not the Communist Party in Los Angeles
on a county level selected those who were to teach in the California
Labor School ?
Mr. Hay. I decline to answer that for the reasons previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you given instructions by the Communist
Party to conduct classes on any occasion ?
1874 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF. ^ AREA
Mr. Hay. I decline for the same reasons, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Wereb, who appeared as a witness yesterday,
and also this morning, stated that you had been sent by the educational
director of the Communist Party in Los Angeles to the Hawthorne
Club of the Communist Party to give a course of instruction. Was
that an accurate statement by him '^
Mr. Hay. Mr. Chairman, you are asking me to give an opinion, I
believe, in this case. I wish to state that I have neither opinions nor
recollections to give to stoolpigeons and their buddies on this com-
mittee.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Let's put the question in a different form.
Were you instructed by the educational director of the Communist
Party to conduct classes in the Hawthorne group of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Hay. I decline to answer that based upon the first and fifth
amendments.
Mr. ScHERER. You called JMr. Wereb a stoolpigeon. Is anything
he said about you untrue ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Hay. I decline to answer that based upon the first and fifth
amendments.
Mr. ScHERER. It certainly comes with ill grace to tag a man like
Mr. Wereb as you have and then refuse to say whether what he said
about you was untrue or not.
Mr. Hay. Mr. Chairman, this is your opinion. You may keep it.
Mr. ScHERER. It certainly is and it is opinion founded on a little
testimony and a little experience on this committee.
Mr. Hay. Mr. Chairman, some of the altercation that went on with
the last witness — I might suggest a question in that direction.
"Mr. Doyle, May I have that statement ? What do you say, please ?
Mr. Hay. In effect, Mr. Chairman, what I said a moment ago was
that some of the altercation concerning the last witness in this chair
might suggest a difference of opinion on that matter.
Mr. DoYLE. Altercation? I wasn't aware there was any alterca-
tion with the last witness.
Mr. ScHERER. I think I know what he means.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Hay, did you in January or February of 1947
conduct a Marxist school in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Hay. I decline to answer that question based on the first and
fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner, Were you a member of the Communist Partv in
1947?
Mr. Hay. I decline for the same reasons, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Hay. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party in
1950?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Hay, I decline to state on the first and fifth amendments, sir.
Mr, Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party in
1954?
Mr. Hay. I decline to state on the first and fifth amendments.
Mr, Tavenner. Were you a member of the Comnmnist Party
yesterday ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1875
Mr. Hay. I decline to state on the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, is it just on Saturdays that you are not a
member of the Communist Party ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Hay. I decline to answer that, Mr. Chairman, on the first and
fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavennek. Were you a member of the Communist Party this
morning when you entered this hearino- room?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Hat. I decline to state on the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Is it a plan of the Communist Party that when a
Communist Party member is called to testify before this committee
that he is to deny membership for the period of time he is on the
witness stand ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Hay. On the advice of counsel I decline to answer that one on
the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Doyle. Any questions ?
Mr. ScHERER. No questions.
Mr. Moulder. No questions.
Mr. Doyle. No questions. Thank you very much.
("Wliereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Martha Hard Wheeldin.
Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I do.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you.
TESTIMONY OF MRS. MARTHA HARD WHEELDIN, ACCOMPANIED
BY COUNSEL, EDWARD CARTER MADDOX
Mr. TA^^NNER. What is your name, please ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. ]\Iartha Hard Wheeldin.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted you are accompanied by counsel. Will
counsel please identify himself for the record.
Mr. AIaddox. Edward Carter Maddox. I practice law in Los
Angeles.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Are you a native of California ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. In the interest of saving time for the committee,
I understand you don't want to work after 12 o'clock
]\Ir. Doyle. We will work as late as necessary. We have plenty
of time to hear the witness fully. We would like to be out by 12. If
it keeps us to 2 or 3 this afternoon, we will perform our duty so don't
worry about that.
Mrs. Wheeldin. Well, I was going to say that in light of the nature
of the inquiry — and I have been here and observed the nature of it
throughout the week — that I do not intend to answer any of the type
of questions that have been directed to various witnesses.
Mr. Doyle. None has been directed to you yet, so please don't antic-
ipate. We may change our line of questions as to you.
Mrs. Wheeldin. Any further questions that are not in the same
nature of inquiry would therefore be not pertinent to the subject and
would be out of order.
1876 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. DoTLE. We will decide what we think is pertinent and you
reiy upon the advice of your counsel. We will perform our duty and
your counsel will perform his. So let's proceed.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question, please ?
Mrs. Wheeldix. What was the question, sir ?
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a native of California ?
Mrs. Wheeldin, No.
Mr. Tavenner. Where were you born ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. This question, sir, I hesitate to ansAver in light of
some of the previous
Mr. Doyle. I instruct you to answer. We are not satisfied with your
answer and you know we would not be. I direct you to answer the
question.
Mrs. Wheeldin. I will be glad to answer if I am not told to go back
where I came from as some of the pre"\dous witnesses were.
Mr. Dotle. This committee has no jurisdiction to tell you where
to go. We have never done it. Now please don't be facetious. Just
proceed in a dignified manner.
Mrs. Wheeldin. I was born in Suchow, China.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to this country ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I don't recall exactly, sir, I was a few months of
age.
Mr. Tavenner. Are jon a naturalized American citizen ?
]\Irs. Wheeldin. No, I am a citizen by birth.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in California ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I don't quite understand that question. I first
came to California, again I don't recall exactly, I was only about 8
years of age at the time.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived here continuously since then ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. No.
Mr. Ta^-enner. Well, then, please tell us what other places it was
where you lived.
Mrs. Wheeldin. That is a rather involved question. Do you want
me to go into all the places I have been ?
Mr. Tavenner. No. Let us begin with 1945 and tell us where you
have lived since that time.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Wheeldin. Well, sir, I hardly see that this is pertinent and if
it is pertinent then it behooves me to resort to the first and fifth amend-
ments and decline to answer your question.
Mr. Scherer. I ask that the witness be directed to answer.
Mr. Doyle. We believe it is a pertinent and proper question and
I instruct you to answer.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Wheeldin. You said since 1945 : is that correct ?
Mr. Tavenner, I will change the question and make it 1944.
Mrs. Wheeldin. I have lived in California since 1944.
Mr. Tavenner. Where in California ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. In Los Angeles County.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you reside in Los Angeles now ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. No, I do not, sir. Do you mean county or city?
Mr. Tavenner. Well, where do you reside ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. At the present time I live in Pasadena.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived there ?
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1877
Mrs. Wheeldin. I have to stop and think a minute. I woukl say
roii£>-hly speaking around 10 years.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I am a housewife, sir.
Mr. Ta\t3nner. Do you have any business or occupation in which
you are engaged other than that of being a housewife ?
JMrs. Wheeldin. I have a profession. However, I am, at present
I have no work, I have no job at all, I am a housewife.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. By profession I am a social worker.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. When were you last engaged in the practice of that
profession ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. Sir, if this question is pertinent, and I doubt that
it is, I would like to ask for direction of the committee as to whether
or not the question is pertinent, I don't
Mr. Doyle. Our distinguished counsel asked you a question and he
doesn't waste his time or your time in asking any questions that are
not pertinent. We are not satisfied with j^our answer. You didn't
answer it. I direct you to answer it.
jNIrs. Wheeldin. Well, sir, on the basis of my rights as very defi-
nitely established in the first amendment guaranteeing me the right
of free speech, free association, and the right I have not to inquire into
my private affairs and also upon the fifth amendment, which I do take
at this time also in view of the nature of the whole nature of this type
of inquiry that you have been conducting here, which corresponds to
the inquisition during the 1700's
Mr. Doyle. You have a right to stand on your constitutional priv-
ilege. We always admire a person who does it honestly, in good faith,
but I am not going to allow you to take this forum to make a speech.
Mrs. Wheeldin. I have stated my reasons for refusing to answer
the questions, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you plead the constitutional privileges ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I think I made that clear.
Mr. DoYi.E. I didn't think you made it quite clear enough for the
record. If you will claim your constitutional privilege
Mrs. Wheeldin. I have done so, the first and the fifth amendments.
Mr. Doyle. You stand upon those ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. Yes, I do.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you active in PTA work in Pasadena ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. Again I question the pertinency of such questions.
Mr. Ta\^nner. May I ask a direction of the w^itness ?
Mr. Doyle. We are instructed by Congress to investigate Commu-
nist Party activity w'herever it is, whether it is in the schools or labor
or anything, any group. We believe therefore it is pertinent. I
instruct you to answer the question.
( The witness conferred with her counsel. )
Mr. Wheeldin. I don't quite understand what you mean by active.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the PTA ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Wheeldin. Yes, I am a member of tiie PTA.
Mr. Ta\t5nner. Do you take active part in its work ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I still don't understand what you mean by active.
Do you mean am I an officer or what ?
1878 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. I want to know what your activity is in the PTA.
You know better than I do.
Mrs. Wheeldin. I am a member and that is about the extent of it.
Mr. ScHERER. Witness, aren't you very active, in fact, so active that
jour picture has appeared in magazines in connection with your
activity in schoolwork and PTA work and in controversies arising
over school matters ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Wheeldin. Mr. Scherer, you seem to know more about that
than I do.
Mr. Scherer. Will you answer the question ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. What is the question ?
Mr. Scherer. Mr. Tavenner asked you whether you were active in
PTA work and you didn't seem to know
Mrs. Wheeldin. I have answered the question.
Mr. Scherer. You asked me a question and I want to explain my
question. Mr. Tavenner asked you whether or not you were active
in the PTA work. You have fenced with him and dodged the question
and said you didn't know what "active" meant, you were merely a
member. Now I am calling your attention to information that has
come to me and asking you isn't it a fact that you were active to such
an extent that I believe it was Life magazine that carried your picture
showing your activities in connection with PTA and schoolwork.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Wheeldin. Well, sir, I have belonged to the PTA for many
years, ever since I had children in the school system because I feel this
is an important part of my responsibility as a parent and if you
refer to a picture that appeared in Life, yes, I saw it, too.
Mr. Scherer. That is all.
Mr. Tavenner. That of course was based on your activity in the
PTA, was it not?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I would hardly say so.
Mr. Scherer. What was it based on ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I don't know what you have reference to, what was
it based on. It is a very ambiguous question.
Mr. Scherer. Well, it was based on a controversy, then, in an edu-
cational matter in Pasadena, was it not ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Wheeldin. Any further
Mr. Scherer. I asked you a question.
Mrs. Wheeldin. I thought he was speaking.
Mr. Scherer. He was talking to my colleague. Will you read the
question to the witness ?
(The reporter read from his notes as requested.)
Mr. Scherer. That is the question.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Whi:eldin. Well, sir, it sounds like a rather opinionated ques-
tion. It calls for stating my opinion and I have no opinion on it. I
think the story in the magazine itself tells you what you might want
to know.
Mr. Scherer. What was it based on then ? You tell us.
Mrs. Wheeldin. What was what based on?
Mr. Scherer. You just admitted that your picture appeared in Life
magazine and I asked you if it didn't appear in connection with a
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1879
controversy in the educational system of Pasadena. Or did it appear
in connection with some other activity or event. That question is
clear.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Wheeldin. I see what you mean.
Well, this was around Pasadena schools, yes.
Mr. ScHERER. That is all I want to know.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your name prior to your marriage?
Mrs. Wheeldin. My maiden name, sir ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mrs. Wheeldin. Snell.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been known by the name of Martha
Hard?
Mrs. Wheeldin. It is my name, sir, I was married previously.
Mr. Tavenner. Was vour name Martha Hard during the period
of 1945 to 1948 ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Wheeldin. I decline to answer on the basis of the first and
fifth amendments.
Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct tlie witness
Mr. Doyle. We cannot accept your answer and I direct you to
answer the question.
Mrs. Wheeldin. I decline to answer on the basis of the first and
fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you in the hearing room yesterday during the
period of time that Mr. Wereb testified regarding a functionary meet-
ing of the Connnunist Party at which he named those functionaries
who were present?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. Doyle. The witness volunteered the statement she had been in
the hearing room all week.
Mrs. Wheeldin. I was here yesterday, if that is what you mean.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Did j^ou hear Mr. Wereb identify you as a
functionary of the Communist Party who attended a functionary
meeting attended by him ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I decline to answer on the basis of the first and
fifth amendments.
Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer because
Mr. Tavenner only asked if she heard that part of Mr. Wereb's tes-
timony.
Mr. Doyle. We do not accept your answer, Madam Witness, and
I direct you to answer.
Mr. Scherer. Couldn-t possibly incriminate her.
Mrs. Wheeldin. Yes, in a whole day's testimony I truly can't trust
my recollection of everything the witness said. If you want to have
the record ret aped or reread —
ISIr. Doyle. Not even about yourself. You couldn't trust your
memory as to that ? I ask j^ou that.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. AVheeldin. I can't even trust my recollection as to that.
Mr. Doyle. As to yourself, what you heard him say ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I stand on what I have said.
Mr. Doyle. You understand the question is whether or not you
heard him : heard what he said ?
1880 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mrs. Wheeldin. I heard some of the things he said.
Mr. Doyle. About you.
Mrs. Wiieeldin. I do not recall all of the things he said.
Mr. DoYLE. About you? I notice you were close by him when he
was testifying.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. ScHERER. May I pursue it ?
Mr. Doyle. Yes, indeed.
Mrs. Wiieeldin. I recall him having said the name Martha Hard,
but I have no basis for knowing that is the same person as me. There
are other persons by such name.
Mr. Tavenner. To be certain about this, were you a member of the
Hawthorne group of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I decline to answer on the basis of the first and
fifth amendments. I do not feel that you can call me to answer such
a question in the light of the type of inquiry you have been conducting.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Were you a member of any group of the Com-
munist Party other than the Plawthorne group ?
Mrs. AVheeldin. Again I decline on the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. You indicated some uncertainty as to the testimony
of Mr. Wereb relating to Martha Hard. His testimony was that
Martha Hard, a functionary of the Communist Party, attended a
functionaries' meeting which he also attended. Were you a func-
tionary of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I decline to answer your question, sir, for the rea-
sons previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. To your knowledge, did you attend any Communist
Party meeting which was also attended by Mr. Wereb ?
Mrs. AVheeldin. Again, sir, I decline to answer. As I told you
when I made my original statement in the interest of saving time there
would be no need of asking me questions on any of this area because
I decline to answer them on the basis of the first and the fifth amend-
ments, which I am sure you are as well aware of their meaning as I am.
Mr. Scherer. Will you look around, Witness, and look at the gentle-
man standing there — stand up — look at the gentleman
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. Scherer. Do you know that gentleman ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Wheeldin. I refuse to answer such a question on the basis of
the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Scherer. Mr. Tavenner just told you what he said when he was
on the stand the other day. Was that testimony about you true ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. Sir, I decline to answer on the reasons previously
stated, and again I say in the interest of saving time there is really no
point in asking me such questions, because I will continue to decline
to answer.
Mr. Doyle. I wish to answer you. Madam, you needn't worry about
saving our time. We have plenty of time.
Mrs. Wheeldin. I have time. Time is valuable to me, too. My
housework and children have been negelected this week.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you given any Communist Party assignment
in Pasadena?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the
grounds previously stated.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1881
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Wheeldin. Generally I decline to answer on the grounds of
the first and the fifth amendments and I do not feel that anybody has
a right to ask such a question.
Mr. Doyle. Of course under Public Law 601 we are delegated by
your Congress, your United States Congress, to ask that very ques-
tion in the field of subversive activities of the Communist Party or
any other subversive group.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. Doyle. We are on an investigation of subversive activities.
We know of no Supreme Court decision which stops us from investi-
gating in any field in which we can legislate and clearly the United
States Congress has and no doubt will further legislate in the field of
subversive activities. So when we ask you about Communist Party
activities, it is an illegal party, it is a subversive outfit, has been so
declared and recognized, we believe it pertinent.
Mrs. Wheeldin. Sir, your investigation may well be in order as
long as it does not violate my constitutional rights. The Constitution
has been in effect in this country for many years and I trust will con-
tinue for many years.
Mr. Doyle. That is right. We are certainly in agreement on that
and of course the Communist Party is known to us as an outfit, a gang,
a conspiracy that would forcibly overthrow that form of constitutional
government. I think you know that, you may know it.
Mrs. Wheeldin, I am not anxious to get into an argument %vith you
about the Constitution or anything else.
Mr. Doyle. I know that.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party
at any time?
Mrs. Wheeldin. I decline to answer that question on the same
ground as previously stated. It is the same question,
Mr, Tavenner, I have no further questions.
Mr, Moulder, No reflection is to be made upon the Parent-Teach-
ers Association as a result of questions asked. It is not the purpose
of the committee to investigate the Parent-Teachers Association,
which is one of the most important, effective, and finest influential or-
ganizations in this country, I want to make that clear.
Your membership and activity in that organization certainly should
not be criticized, you should be commended for any Parent-Teachers
Association work that you have performed, I make that statement to
clarify that it is not our purpose to investigate the Parent-Teachers
Association.
Mr, Scherer. I agree with what Mr, Moulder says about PTA, but
of course we are interested in determining whether or not Com-
munists belong or are active in any organization whether it be PTA,
labor union, fraternal organization, or what. That is the purpose of
the questions.
Mr. Moulder. I w^ant to make our position clear, I don't know
whether there is any testimony q,s to w^hether in the interests of the
Communists she was a member of the Parent Teachers Association,
That is my point,
Mr, Doyle, I am glad you made that statement, Mr. Moulder. I
concur in it. As a matter of fact, I used to be president of a PTA.
1882 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF,, AREA
Mr. ScHERER. I am a member now.
Mr. Doyle. You are a member now ?
Mr. Scherer. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. There is nothing wrong with the PTA.
Mr. Doyle. Let's congratuhite the PTA on having a member like
you, Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. Thank you.
Mr. Doyle. I want to' congratulate the PTA on the great work they
have done and always do, but that doesn't stop us as a congressional
committee from trying to find out the extent to which the Com-
munist conspiracy even tries to infiltrate the PTA and other groups.
That is our job and we would hope that this witness might try to
help us.
Any other questions ?
INIr. Moulder. I understand that. I wanted to clarify the point that
we are not investigating the Parent-Teachers Association here or any-
where else.
Mr. Doyle. That is right. We are investigating individuals.
Any question ?
Mr. Moulder. We could ask the question as to whether or not she
has ever held any official position in that Parent Teachers Association?
Mr. Doyle. We did ask that.
Mr. Moulder. You just asked about the extent of her activities but
every parent who is a member will be active to some extent. I don't
know to what extent she was active.
Mr. Doyle. Any questions, Mr. Scherer?
Mr. Scherer. I have no questions.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Madam Witness, and Counsel. You are
excused.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Louis Stark.
Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Stark. I do.
TESTIMONY OF LOUIS STARK, ACCOMPAmED BY COUNSEL,
ROBERT KENNY
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ?
Mr. Stark. Louis Stark.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted you are accompanied by counsel. Will
counsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Kenny. Robert Kenny, Los Angeles.
Mr. Tavenner. TV^ien and where were you born, Mr. Stark?
Mr, Stark. December 4, 1915, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Where ?
Mr. Stark. In New York City.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Stark. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you first come to California?
Mr. Stark. Approximately 35 years ago, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived here continuously since that time ?
Mr. Stark. Continuously with the exception of a period from
March 1941 to— this is a copy of my honorable discharge here — period
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1883
of March 1941 to November 16, 1945, when I was discharged at Fort
McArthur. Other than that period I resided in Los Angeles.
Mr. Tavenner, You served overseas in the fighting forces of the
United States ?
Mr. Stark. I was a member of the 355th Infantry.
To those who were in the Pacific, we were more fortunate. We were
in Europe. I was an infantryman, sir.
Mr. Ta\ti;nner. Will yon tell the committee what your educational
training has been?
Mr. Stark. I have been educated in the Los Angeles school system,
sir. I had 6 years of grammar school, junior high school, graduate of
high school. I attended evening high school for perhaps a period of
a year or more at various times.
That is the extent of my formal education.
Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed between 1945 and 1948?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stark. During that ])eriod, sir, I believe I was primarily self-
employed in the produce business.
Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time were you acquainted
with Mr. Stephen Wereb, either by his true name as Stephen Weber or
by his name as Stephen Wereb ?
Mr. Stark. I must refuse to answer that question based on my
rights under the Constitution, the first and fifth amendments, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I think you were present in the hearing while Mr.
Wereb testified regarding your participation in Communist Party
activities during that period of 1945 to 1948, were you not ?
Mr. Stark. I have been in the committee hearing room on and off
Friday and again today, sir. I have been in and out of the room at
various times.
Mr. Tavenner. If you heard his testimony relating to you, I do not
want to take the time to repeat it, if you didn't I will repeat it or
attempt to refresh your recollection.
Mr. Stark. Well, sir, in view of the fact that I have been in and
out, I would not be in a position to know whether I had heard all
of his testimony.
Mr. ScHERER. Did you hear his testimony as it related to you?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stark. Sir, the record will have to speak for itself. I per-
sonally am not sure.
Mr. ScHERER. You are not sure whether you heard his testimon}^
as related to you ?
Mr. Stark. Completely, I couldn't be sure because I was not here
all the time. The record will be complete and I do not have it.
Mr. ScHERER. Did you hear him say anything about jou at all ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stark. I am not sure, sir, and I will have to depend on the
record.
Mr. ScHERER. You mean you are not sure whether you heard him
mention your name at all ?
Mr. Stark. Sir, I will have to rely on my previous answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Wereb testified to the effect that there were
a number of occasions where Communist Party classes were con-
ducted in your home at which you were present.
1884 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Stark. I must refuse to answer that question based on the
reasons previously given, sir.
Mr. Tavekner. I haven't actually asked you whether that occurred
or not, but I will ask you now. Were you present at any such classes,
when such classes were held at your home ?
Mr. Stark. I must reply the same way, sir. I refuse to answer
based on my rights and in a sense obligations to the Constitution
under the first and fifth amendments.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Hawthorne group of
the Communist Party ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stark. I refuse, sir, for the reasons previously given.
Mr. Tavenner. It was also testified to that you acted as the liaison
between the Communist Party and certain political groups. Did
you act as such a liaison ?
Mr. Stark. I must refuse to answer that question based on the
reasons previously given.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a candidate for Congress on the Inde-
pendent Progressive Party ticket in 1948 ?
Mr. Stark. I cross-filed as a member, as a candidate under the
Independent Progressive Party, but due to the actual laws of this
State governing elections, I have always been a registered Demo-
crat, sir, and ran as a Democratic candidate and if I had had the
funds at the time probably would have run as a Republican, as well.
The termination of the election was that the Democratic candidate
won not only his but the Republican nomination as well and ap-
parently won nothing.
Mr. Tavenner. In that campaign were you essentially the candi-
date of the Independent Progressive Party ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stark, I really can't answer that question, it is rather am-
biguous, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you discuss your candidacy on the ticket of
the Independent Progressive Party with functionaries of the Com-
munist Party prior to your filing as a candidate with the Independent
Progressive Party ?
Mr. Stark. I am sorry I interrupted you, but I believe I gathered
the sense of your question and I must refuse to answer that on the first
supported by the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with the membership of the
committee for the Independent Progressive Party at the time of your
candidacy ?
Mr. Stark. I must for the reasons previously stated refuse to answer
that question.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Will you tell the committee, please, how many of
the members of that committee were members of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Stark. My answer to that, sir, in view of the fact that it is a
similar question, must be the same.
Mr. Doyle. I think, Mr. Tavenner, our evidence is that by far more
than one was a member of that group, I mean more than one Com-
munist was a member of the IPP committee in control at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of declaration of
candidacy as an Independent Progressive Party candidate for nomi-
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1885
nation to the office of Congressman from the I7th District, Jmie 1,
1948. On the second page of which appears the signature of the
candidate, to which is attached sponsors certificate showing signatures
required by law to be obtained.
Will you examine the document, please, and state whether or not
that is your signature on the second page as candidate ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stark. I am sorry, sir, I have the document but I have lost the
question directed to it.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the second page and state whether
or not the signature there of the candidate is your signature ?
Mr. Stark. I decline to answer that, sir, based on the grounds
previousl^y stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the list of sponsors which follow ?
Mr. Stark. I have done that, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You have done that ?
Mr. Stark. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. If you will examine the document, I am certain
you will see names of people identified by Mr, Wereb as members of
the Hawthorne group of the Communist Party.
Will you tell the committee, please, which of those you agree with
Mr. Wereb were members of the Communist Party ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stark. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. You are at perfect liberty to make any explanation
you desire.
Mr. Stark. I realize that, sir, but I must rely on advice of counsel,
whom I have implicit faith in. This is more complicated that I had
originally thought, sir, and counsel is aware of my position, as is the
chairman.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat complicated situation do you speak of?
Mr. Stark. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a meeting of the Communist Party
at which your candidacy as an Independent Progressive Party candi-
date was urged ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stark. I would like to reiterate, sir, that I never was a candi-
date of the Independent Progressive Party. I have always been a
registered Democrat and ran on that, as a Democrat. I crossfiled,
which is a part of the election laws of this State as a candidate for
the Progressive Party and did not run as a candidate of that party
in the runotl's because I was not eligible.
Mr. Moulder. You say if you had had the filing fee you would
also have filed on the Republican ticket ?
Mr, Stark. It is a practice used by all of the politicians
Mr. SciiERER. He said he was a registered Democrat.
Mr. Stark. I would have run if I had had the additional filing fee,
sir, as a Republican,
Mr. Scherer. I agree that he would have filed if he had had the
fee. I doubt if the Republicans would have let him run.
65500— 55— pt. 4 8
1886 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. The declaration of candidacy I hand you states :
I hereby declare myself an Independent Progressive Party candidate for
nomination.
Doesn't that make you a candidate for nomination on the Inde-
pendent Progressive Party ticket ?
(The witness conferred with his counseL)
Mr. Stark. The document speaks for itself, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, then, it is true that if it speaks tlie trutli that
you were a candidate, an Independent Progressive Party candidate.
If that is not true, please so state.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stark. Well, sir, apparently it would take a good deal of time
to understand the peculiar election laws in this State which is evi-
dent in the document, but the document must speak for itself, con-
fusing as it is.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me see if I can clear it up. Does that language
indicate that though you may have been a candidate on some other
ticket that this meant crossfiling ?
Mr. Stark. Yes, it does, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I am trying to get the facts. That is what I want
to know,
Mr. Stark. As I say, the general practice is for candidates for
political office to file on all parties.
Mr. Scherer. That is not the general practice.
Mr. Stark. The general practice
Mr. Scherer. To file in all three parties? I thought they filed in
the Democratic and Republican primaries.
Mr. Stark. Many of tliem did. I am not qualified to state how
many, but I think many of them did.
Mr. Doyle. I think in view of the fact that I am a California Con-
gressman and a registered Democrat, I wish to state it wasn't the gen-
eral practice as far as I am concerned. I never filed in the IPP, cross-
filed. I did crossfile in the Republican Party and I think I won its
nomination, too, once in a while.
Mr. Stark. Well, sir, it might be profitable to go to the secretary
of State for a matter of record and engage in research to determine
how many candidates for political office did this. I have no way
of saying at the present time.
Mr. Tavenner. The point I have asked you to clear up is: What
part did the Communist Party play in your crossfiling or participa-
tion in that election on the Independent Progressive Party ticket.
Mr. Stark. I must refuse to answer that question based on the
grounds previously given.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether or not the Com-
munist Party at that time controlled and directed the Independent
Progressive Party in its function ?
Mr. Stark. I cannot answer that question based on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. DoYLE. I think Mr. Tavenner as a California Congressman
I think it has been discovered that in those days in too large man-
ner the Communist Party in California did control too much entirely
the policy and practices of the IPP party. That was discovered by
me and it was discovered by many California Congressmen and it is
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1887
self-evident and I think that the IPP is still infiltrated with too many
Communists and that the IPP is — that is, the Communist members
of the IPP party, formerly IPP party because it isn't now, legally
qualified in California as I understand it, are now trying to infiltrate
the Democratic and Eepublican political machinery in Los Angeles
County and other counties in California. No question about that.
Mr. ScHERER. They have a hard time getting in the Republican
Party, don't they ?
Mr. Doyle. They get in the Republican Party too often and too
often in the Democratic Party. They get into both parties. But they
still have the same Communist intent and purpose in my book. [
think I know a few of them.
Mr. Moulder. There was a question asked you as to whether or not
you are now a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Stark, I am not now a member of the Conmiunist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Conmiunist Party at
the time you were a candidate for Congress ?
Mr. Stark. I refuse to answer that question based on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Independent Progres-
sive Party ?
Mr. Stark. I was never a member to the best of my knowledge.
Mr. Tavenner. Never a member ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stark. Never registered, I will put it that way, as a member
of the Independent Progressive Party. I was always registered since
I was a little whelp in this city as a Democrat.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Tavenner, the law used to be in California we could
cross-file into other parties without being registered in that party.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, I understand.
Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1954 ?
Mr. Stark. I refuse to answer that question based on the grounds
previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you cease to become a member of the
Communist Party ?
]\Ir. Stark. I refuse to answer that question based on the same
grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. You desire to rely upon your statement that you
are not now a member of the Communist Party, but will give no other
facts relating to membership ?
Mr. Stark. That is right, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I want to give you every opportunity to explain
your answer, how you got out of the Communist Party, if you did.
Mr. Stark. I have no legal training and I must, as you know I must,
give that answer.
Mr. Tavenner. This committee has no information indicating that
you are not a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Stark. I am aware of that, sir.
Mr. Tavenner, It has evidence that you were a member of the Com-
munist Party in 1948. I want to give you every o])portunity to
Mr. Stark. I am not now a Communist, sir. Beyond that I can
answer no questions.
Mr. Tavenner. You do not desire to go any further with the
matter ?
1888 COMMXFNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Stark. Under the rights as I understand them, under the Con-
stitution, without implying, although unfortunately in the minds of
many people the use of these amendments which were put into our
Constitution and a great deal of hard work by many Americans whom
I have always admired historically, these are now being misconstrued
and I use them as they were intended to be.
Mr. ScHERER. I do think this witness has properly invoked the fifth
amendment and he is to be complimented on his demeanor and attitude
here as a witness.
Mr. Tavenner. I want to be sure to give him every possible oppor-
tunity to explain his action if he desires to do so.
Mr. Stark. Counsel knows the reasons that I
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Moulder. Let me ask a question: Have you ever knowingly
engaged in any espionage or subversive activities ?
Mr. Stark. No, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Have you ever knowingly committed any acts of dis-
loyalty to your country, the United States of America ?
Mr. Stark. Unequivocally no, sir, and I might add that I will resent
and have in the past and in the last few days, any implications of that,
and without going into any braggadocio I tliink my activity in this
city socially and politically, going back to the recall of Mayor Frank
Shaw
Mr. Moulder. I merely asked you the question to give you an
opportunity to make that statement in explanation.
Mr. Stark. I have not, sir.
Mr. Sciierer. We have not tried to leave that impression or create
any such implication.
Mr. Stark. I appreciate that.
Mr. ScHERER. I think your attitude toward the committee has been
splendid, that you properly invoked the fifth amendment.
Mr. Stark. I tried to do it honestly.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. Did you testify as to your service in the Armed
Forces of the United States ?
Mr. Stark. Yes, sir ; I was in the service ; for a period of less than 5
3'^ears and, as I say, I have several items which I treasure most. One
is the Combat Infantryman's Badge, and the other for domestic pur-
poses, a Good Conduct Medal.
Mr. Moulder. With an honorable discharge for your service.
Mr. Stark. Yes.
Mr. Scherer. I must ask you another question. Were you a mem-
ber of the party when you were in the armed services ?
Mr. Stark. I refuse to answer that question, sir.
Mr. Doyle. On what grounds ?
Mr. Stark. On the grounds previously stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Doyle. May I make a very brief observation. I think I as
an individual have reason to believe you haven't been in the Com-
munist Party for several years. I am not asking you to — I want to
congratulate you on getting out, and I wish the legal situation was
such that you could do that which I know you would be glad to do
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1889
and therefore officially as a fellow citizen may I urge you to use the
^reat ability you have and the great knowledge you have of how the
Communist Party used to operate, use that vigorously and vigilantly,
my friend, to overcome the damage done by the Communist Party
both past and present.
I kind of have a hunch that you are in a position to contribute much,
especially to the education and information of young people of teen
age and college age, and help them from the danger of it in any way
identifying with the Communist conspiracy. Again I wish the legal
situation was different so that you could help us.
Mr. Stark. I appreciate your saying it, sir.
Mr. Doyle. And I may say although you may have been in the
hearing room when my distinguished colleagues, Mr. Moulder and
Mr. Scherer said it, but we hope that there will be no reprisal in any
way against you as a result of the necessity we have had in calling you
before the committee. If there is, I am making a sincere statement,
we hope it doesn't occur and if it does, we regret it and will do what-
ever we properly can to help correct it.
Mr. Stark. Thank you.
Mr. Scherer. I just want the record to show that in view of his
taking the fifth amendment, I can't fully associate myself with your
last statement.
Mr. Doyle. I understand, but it is my statement and I feel that
way about it.
Mr. Scherer. You said "we."
Mr. Doyle. I am sorry. I will eliminate you but sometimes these
things occur and we know a man presently before us as a patriotic
citizen entitled to every honest break he can have.
Is there any other question ?
jMr. Moulder. No.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you, witness, and counsel.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr, Wheeler. We have one more witness. Mr. Robert Brock.
]Mr. Brock. I have a press statement I would like to give. I will
give one to the committee if they want one.
Mr. Doyle. We will be glad of course to have a press statement,
that is issued at the time the witness takes the stand. May I ask
you to be sworn.
Mr. Brock. Surely.
Mr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Brock. I do.
TESTIMONY OF EOBEET L. BROCK, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
ARTHUE A. BEOOKS
Mr. Tavenxer. Will you state your name, please, sir ?
Mr. Brock. Robert L. Brock.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted you are accompanied by counsel. Will
. ounsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. Brooks. I did. Arthur A. Brooks, Jr., of Held & Brooks,
Beverly Hills.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Brock ?
1890 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Brock. I was born January 2, 1914, in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan,.
Canada.
Mr. Tavennp:r. When did you first come to the United States?
Mr. Brock. This is only what my mother tells me, but it was prob-
ably 1915.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen or American
citizen by birth ?
Mr. Brock. In my opinion I am an American citizen by derivative,
howevei", on my return from Army service at the sufrcrestion of the
Immijrration Service, in order to take the bar examination I went
through the naturalization that was then provided by Congress for
servicemen. I think it was early in 1947, at the beginning of 1947
or end of 1946.
Mr. Tam^nner. Your profession, tlien, is the legal profession ?
Mr. Brock. I am a member of the State bar of the State of Califor-
nia.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your for-
mal educational training has been?
Mr. Brock. I have lived in Los Angeles since 1920. During that
period I attended public and one or two private schools. I went to
Hollywood High School from which I graduated in 1980. I went to
the University of California at Los Angeles from wliich T graduated
in 1934. I then commenced working for the county and took I think
three courses in sociology at the University of Southern California
at night school and started then to go to night law school. I com-
pleted night law school just before going into the service. Then
during my time in service I spent a year's study at the LTniversity of
California at Berkeley under an Army training program.
Mr. Tavenner. What year was that ?
Mr. Brock. This is a matter of record, it may not be too accurate,
but I think it was 194-3 and into 1944. I don't have my service record
or I could tell you. It was 1 calendar year. I don't mean calendar
year but it was a year's period. That is the extent of my education.
Mr. Tavenner. What period of time were you in the service?
Mr. Brock. I went into the service in, I think it was, September of
1942 and was discharged in, I believe, February of 1946. I was in 314
years.
Mr. Tavenner. You served overseas ?
Mr. Brock. I served in the China-Burma-India theater.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell tlie committee, please, what your em-
ployment has been since your retui-n from the service up until the
time you began the practice of law.
Mr. Brock. I went into the service, I got a leave of absence from a
civil service position with the county of Los Angeles as a clerk of the
superior court.
Mr. Tavenner. When were you first employed as clerk of the su-
perior court?
Mr. Brock. I started working for the county of Los Angeles in
June 1934, it may be July, when I graduated from UCLA, as a mes-
senger for the county clerk's office at a salary of $68.18 a month. I
continued in that, going through the civil service stages, until I became
a court clerk, my recollection is it was probably 1941, and I was still
holding that position when I was inducted into the Armed Forces : and
COMRfUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1891
when I came back I resumed that employment and then prepared my-
self and took the bar examination and became admitted.
Shortly subsequent to my admission I was elected by the judges of
the superior court of this county as a superior court commissioner and
served in that position until April 1, 1954.
Mr. Taatexner. Describe briefly the position of commissioner.
Mr. Brock. A commissioner acts as a sort of referee, ordinarily sev-
eral commissioners will work in one department under a judge. They
hear cases in a manner similar to the manner in w^hich a judge hears
them, they make findings and recommendations. Probably in your
practice it w^ould be more equivalent to a master in chancery.
I worked almost exclusively in the field of family problems and
domestic relations.
Mr. Ta\t5xner. How long were you so employed ?
Mr. Brock. I started, I think, in September of 1947 and continued
until the end of March of 1954.
Mr. Ta\texxer. What was the reason for the termination of your
employment ?
Mr. Brock. I think I explained it in my press release, but I will ex-
plain it again. First I wanted to go into private practice, I had never
practiced. In the second place, I felt I could be more effective in sup-
porting the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as a practicing attor-
ney than I could on the bench.
Mr. Scherer. Some of these judges w^on't like that.
Mr. Brock. I wasn't sitting as a judge. I was hearing domestic
relations cases as commissioner.
Mr. ScHERER. You said you were on the bench.
Mr. Brock. That is true.
Mr. Tavenxer. In occupying the position of commissioner were you
required to give an oath or affidavit required by law ?
Mr. Brock. The law would speak for itself. I rather think so.
Mr. Tavexxer. Did you give such an oath ?
Mr. Brock. I do not recall such an oath. If you have a copy of it
I would be glad to look at it.
(Document handed to witness.)
Mr. Brock. I have looked at the document which appears to bear a
date in February 1948.
Mr. Tavex'xer. At the time of the signing of that document were
you a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Brock. I refuse to answer that question on the following
grounds : Firstly, I would suggest that if the committee wishes to play
fair in the American way, they produce any evidence they may have
that I was ever a member of the Communist Party and produce it
before a court and not this type of a hearing.
Second ground I have for refusing to answer that question is that
it became obvious I think in yesterday's hearing and from Mr. AYereb
himself that all of the parties named by Mr. Wereb had been turned
in to the FBI and quite apparently the only function served by his
testimony here was releasing those names to the press. I do not wish
to be a party to this.
I have an answer to isms and I will be glad to give it to the com-
mittee if the committee wants it here. I f urther^decline to answer
because it is a violation of my rights under the first amendment.
1892 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
I further decline to answer on the grounds it violates my natural
rights because in a democratic form of government the people have
an absolute right to free expression and free association.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Tavenner asked you if at the time you signed
that document if you were a member of the Communist Party. Did
you admit your signature to the document ?
Mr. Brock. I did not.
Mr. Moulder. I didn't recall any such testimony.
Mr. Brock. There was not, but if there were, the answer woiild be
the same.
Mr. Dotle. In view of the witness being an attorney at the Cali-
fornia bar and I am also one, I wish to say that my own position as a
California lawyer — I haven't practiced for 9 years now — is this : I will
fight for your right, Witness, to think what you please and be what
you please and do what you please. But I expect you to do this within
the four corners of the Constitution of the United States.
Mr. Brock. If you have any other evidence I would like to see it.
Mr. Doyle. Maybe it will be produced either here or later. I
assume it will be.
Mr. Sciierer. The best evidence of nonmembership in the Commu-
nist Party on the part of this gentleman would be his sworn testimony
here that he is not.
Mr. Doyle. That is right.
Mr. Scherer. That is why w^e are giving him the opportunity.
Mr. Brock. I didn't ask for any opportunity, Congressman. I am
here involuntaril}^ sir. •
Mr. Tavexner. I had understood you acknowledged signing the
affidavit when you re^jlied to my question, but apparently I misunder-
stood you.
Mr. Brock. I think you did, sir.
Mr, Tavenner. Did you sign it ?
Mr. Brock. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds hereto-
fore stated.
Mr. Tavenner. My question that followed related to whether or not
you were a member of the Communist Party at the date of that docu-
ment, which was in Id-iS. That was clear, wasn't it ?
Mr. Brock. Yes, sir ; that was quite clear.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever use the name Bob Lehman ?
( The witness conferred with his counsel. )
Mr. Brock. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds hereto-
fore given.
Mr. Tavenner. What was your address in 1940 ?
Mr. Brock. I wish I could tell you. I really don't remember. I
think I was living on Verendo Street, but I am not sure.
Mr. Ta\^nner. On what other streets did you live, say, between
1935 and 1945 ?
Mr. Brock. That is a long period and I can't tell you. I lived for
a time on a street called Hicks. I lived for a time at Pasadena at two
different addresses. If you want to suggest an address, Mr. Tavenner,
I will be glad to answer it. I am not trying to conceal where I live.
I don't think it has any bearing on the hearing, but I will be glad to
answer it.
Mr. Doyle. It helps us in identification.
Mr. Brock. Certainly,
COxvIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1893
•
Mr. Tavenner. Did you live at 6010 North
Mr. Brock. That sounds familiar.
Mr. Tavenner. G-r-a-c-i-o-s-o Drive ?
Mr, Brock. Yes; I did some year or other, I am not sure when.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you live there a period of about 10 years ?
Mr. Brock. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you live there ?
Mr. Brock. I couldn't say, but I think probably at one period for
about a year during the time right after I got out of college about the
time my daughter was born I was living there.
Mr. Tavenner. That would be about what year ?
Mr. Brock. 1935, I think, and I might have lived there for a few
months on some subsequent occasion.
Mr. Tavenner. You lived there about a year beginning in 1935?
Mr. Brock. Sometime like that, I am not sure if it was a year or 6
month?; or 8 months.
Mr. Tavenner. So then during a part of 1936 that would have been
your correct address?
Mr. Brock. I can't say, but it is possible. I think I probably did
for part of the time during 1936. My daughter was born in December
1935 and I think I was there then.
Mr. Sciierer. Didn't you ask this witness whether he ever used any
other name?
Mr. Tavenner. I asked him whether he had used the name Bob
Lehman, L-e-h-m-a-n.
Mr. Doyle. What was his answer? I don't think he answered it.
Mr. Moulder. He declined to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe he refused to answer.
Mr. Sciierer. He took the fifth amendment.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Brock, you have helped us now on identification
of where you lived in answer to these questions, frankly; you have
told us you probably lived there and identified the fact that your
daughter was born and so forth about that time. Now you have
helped us in that matter of identification because if there is any error
we don't want to be in error. If there is any error in identification
given us as far as you are concerned, we want to know it.
Mr. Brock. I certainly appreciate it, Congressman.
Mr. Doyle. You have held high positions. May I say this : If you
have used any other name than the one you have given us, why don't
you help us in the matter of identification as to name, too? I should
think you would be very anxious
Mr. Brock. Congressman, it is my sincere view that this commit-
tee is doing a real disservice to the Constitution and that is why I am
not helping you.
Mr, Doyle. You helped us on the matter of
Mr. Brock. I will help any committee dedicated to preserving
civil rights.
Mr. Doyle. I resent that, "Witness, because I think — but again I
want to urge, sir, that to me as a member of the bar I would suspect
that you ought to in justice to yourself and the bar and the court
where you have served these years as commissioner, you ought to help
us know who you have been, under what different names if any. I
would think you would be interested in that.
1894 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
*
Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Doyle, if you have an opportunity to look at this
affidavit that he swore to on February 3, 1948, you would see that he
properly invokes the fifth ammendment when he refused to answer as
to whether or not he ever used the name Lehman, because in this
affidavit of course he was under oath, he says he never used any other
name. There is a specific provision of this affidavit which says that I
never used or have been known by any names other than those listed
as follows, so he can't admit here that he used the name of Lehman
because he would admit he was guilty of perjury when he signed this
affidavit.
Mr. Doyle. I see.
Mr. ScHERER. So he is properly invoking the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever a member of unit x\.-3 of the Com-
munist Party in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Brock. Sir, I would like to know who accuses me of such mem-
bership and what you have to show me that would refresh my memory.
Mr. Tavenner. I show you a document, a Communist Party docu-
ment which was obtained by the committee.
Mr. Scherer. This is the first little bit of evidence he asked for.
Mr. Brock. May I state for the record in answering the question
that this document is entirely typed, bears no signature, starts off
"Bob Brock" and under that" "Bob Lehman," and right side "1914,
unit A-3."
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment.
Mr. Brock (reading) :
Clerk, Canadian, joined in '36, proposed by —
and that is all there is on the document, none of which is written in
any one's hand. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds hereto-
fore stated.
Mr. Scherer. I think we should state for the record that his state-
ment is in error because it has been identified under oath as a Com-
munist Party document.
Mr. Doyle. All he is saying is there is nothing in handwriting.
Mr. Scherer. I see that.
Mr. Brock. I didn't hear it identified, Mr. Tavenner, by anyone.
Mr. Tavenner. No; it has not been identified in this hearing.
Mr. Brock. I guess Mr. Scherer is in error.
Mr. Scherer. Not in this hearing.
Mr. Brock. Has it been identified at any hearing?
Mr. Tavenner. It has not been identified at a hearing.
Mr. Doyle. It has been identified, whether at a hearing or not.
Mr. Tavenner. It has been identified.
Mr. Brock. By whom ?
Mr. Doyle. I know it has been identified, I assure you, but not in
a public hearing. We wouldn't put a document in front of 3^ou that
hasn't been identified to our satisfaction, even if not in a hearing.
Mr. Brock. Under committee rules I am entitled to be apprised of
any evidence in a prior hearing involving me and I have not been so
advised.
Mr. Doyle. No such committee rule, you know that, but I assure
you we don't present a document under your eyes that hasn't been
identified as such in the judgment of our distinguished legal counsel
as sufficient identification of a Communist Party record for your
information in answers.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1895
Mr. Tavenner. You read the year 1914. That was the date of your
birth, was it not ?
Mr. Brock. Part of the date, January 1, 1914 : yes.
Mr. Tavenner. You read the address, 6010 North Gracioso Drive,
That was your residence in 1936, wasn't it ?
Mr. Brock. I can't say for how long in 1936 but it was I think for
part of 1936.
Mr. Tavenner. You read the employment as clerk. You were a
clerk, were you not ?
Mr. Brock. I was either a clerk or messenger at that time, I am not
sure which.
Mr. Tavenner. You read the name Canadian, did you not?
Mr. Brock. The word Canadian, that is right.
Mr. Tavenner. And you were born in Canada, weren't you?
Mr. Brock. I was, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You read the name Bob Lehman ?
Mr. Brock. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever use that name ?
Mr. Brock. I am sure you asked me that question and I have already
declined to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you still decline to answer it after reading it
from this card ?
Mr. Brock. Yes, sir ; I do.
Mr. Tavenner. On what grounds ?
Mr. Brock. On the grounds heretofore stated at the time of your
last question.
Mr. Tavenner. You read "joined in 1936." Did you join the Com-
munist Party in 1936?
Mr. Brock. I think I have already declined to answer that question,
too.
Mr. Tavenner. I have not asked you that.
Mr. Brock. I thought you had. I am sorry. I will decline to answer
that question on the grounds heretofore stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you questioned at the time that you termi-
nated the position of commissioner, or shortly prior thereto, regard-
ing Communist Party membership ?
( The witness conferred with his counsel. )
Mr. Brock. I will decline to answer that question on the same
grounds heretofore given.
Mr. Scherer. I want to interrupt now because it is very important.
The statement this man gave to the press before he sat down on this
witness stand says that one of his most compelling reasons for his
resignation from the bench "Was my desire to work more effectively
against the un-American hysteria and fear generated by this and like
committees.*'
Now he takes the fifth amendment when he is asked about the cir-
cumstances surrounding that resignation. I can readily believe now
that this is not so.
Mr. Brock. Why don't you call the judges and ask them?
Mr. Scherer. We have you here now.
Mr. Doyle. My former law partner of 20 y(iars is on the superior
bench of Los Angeles County, Hon. George G. Clark. I think I will
ask him.
Mr. Brock. I would welcome it.
1896 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Tavenner. Were you interviewed by the personnel committee
of the sii])erior court regarding this subject, the subject of your alleged
Communist Party membership ?
Mr. Brock. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds here-
tofore stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Weren't you required to resign ?
Mr. Brock. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Didn't j^ou resign because of the situation which
I have mentioned ?
Mr. Brock. No, sir.
Mr. ScHERER. How soon after you were questioned about your
Communist Party activities did you resign ?
Mr. Brock. I am sure, Mr. Scherer, you are not trying to trick me
into an answer to a question to which I claimed my constitutional
rights. Therefore, I will decline to discuss this on the same grounds.
Mr. DoYLE. Let me ask you this in all sincerity : Were you a mem-
ber of the Communist Party at the time you resigned ?
Mr. Brock. I will decline to answer that question on the same
grounds, sir. I might state with all deference to the committee, if I
may be given leave, it has been my practice for many years to asso-
ciate myself v\'ith whatever people I wish to pursue, objectives which
I consider to be proper, to sign anything I wish if I agree with it.
regardless of who put it out, and this is a practice I will continue. I
will not discuss organization or people with this committee.
If I had at any time any evidence of any unlaAvful activity, sabotage,
or espionage, I would turn that evidence over to the FBI where it
belongs.
Mr. Tavenner. May I ask you this: What was the date of your
resignation ?
Mr. Brock. It was sent in some time before it took effect. My pres-
ent recollection is it was effective tlie end of March of 1954.
Mr. Tavenner. It was April 2, 1954, was it not?
Mr. Brock. I am not sure. If you saj^ so that could be true.
Mr. Ta\t5Nner. Weren't you interviewed by the personnel com-
mittee of the superior court on the 29th day of March 1954 just a few
days prior to your resignation?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Brock. Not according to my recollection, sir. In fact, I was
never interviewed by the personnel committee of the superior court
except when I was employed.
Mr. Tavenner. By whom were you interviewed regarding alleged
Communist Party activity prior to your resignation ?
Mr. Brock. I have already declined to answer that question, sir,
and I will continue to do so.
Mr. TxUTSNNER. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Brock. I am not.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at
January 1,1955?
Mr. Brock. Please, sir, do not try to fence with me. I have told
you I am not going to give you information of that type.
Mr. Tavenner. I am going to put you on oath, sir, as to the time
you left the Communist Party and if you refuse to answer that is
your refusal.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1897
Mr. Brock. I shall do that, sir, consistently to the rest of your
questions on that subject.
Mr. Doyle. You volunteered you were not a member of the Com-
munist Party at this minute. Excuse me for interrupting.
Mr. ScHERER. Were you a member of the Communist Party
yesterday ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Brock. My answer will be the same to that as I have just indi-
cated to Mr. Tavenner, Mr. Scherer.
Mr. Scherer. You mean you are refusing to answer on the basis
of the fifth amendment ?
Mr. Brock. I am refusing to answer that question on the grounds
as follows: First, that this committee is violating my natural rights;
second, the committee is not pursuing its proper legislative purpose ;
thirdly, on the grounds that I have rights not to answer as to my
associations under the first amendment ; and, fourthly, the first amend-
ment supplemented by the fifth amendment, in that I do not choose
to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Scherer. You refused to answer as to whether you were a
member of the Communist Party yesterday. Were you a member
of the Communist Party when you came here this morning?
Mr. Brock. Would it be satisfactory, sir, if I just incorporated
my last refusal ?
Mr. Doyle. Very satisfactory.
Mr. Brock. I will do that right along if you wish.
Mr. Doyle. It is in order to save time, but not because we accept
it as sufficient, I assure you.
Mr. Scherer. Let's get this straight. He is under oath now and
I am going to ask whether or not the statements you made in this
release to the press before you got on the stand are true, all of them
true, every one of them.
(Witness read his own statement.)
Mr. Doyle. Let the witness read the statement.
Mr. Scherer. Just a minute.
Mr. Brock. You don't mind if I read my copy ?
Mr. Scherer. I hope you wrote it.
Mr. Brock. I did. Every statement I have made in this press
release is unequivocally true.
Mr. Scherer. All right. You still say that the chief reason for
resigning from the bench, as you put it, was because of your desire
to work more effectively against this committee.
Mr. Brock. Yes, sir ; I do so state that.
Mr. Scherer. All right.
Mr. Brock. And I want it understood I do not mean this committee
as individuals. I have no personal feeling against the members of
this committee. I feel what you are doing is wrong.
Mr. Scherer. You say that was your reason for resigning from the
bench ?
Mr. Brock. I said that was one of my most compelling reasons for
resigning from the bench.
Mr. Scherer. What were the other reasons ?
Mr. Brock. I wanted to go into private practice of law.
1898 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr, SciiERER. Are those the only two reasons ?
(The witness conferred with his connseL)
Mr. Brock. I felt also that my activities in connection with civil
liberties issues might be a source of embarrassment to the courts and
I have always held the courts in high respect and I did not wish to be
a source of any controversy.
Excuse me, sir. May I state something to supplement that answer ?
I was already in the process of involving myself in what I considered
to be one of the crucial civil liberties cases in this day and I wished to
resign to devote myself to it.
Mr. ScHERER. Did your association in Communist Party activities
have anything to do with your resignation from the bench ?
Mr. Brock. No.
Mr. ScHERER. Not at all ?
Mr. Brock. No.
Mr. ScHERER. Did the fact that you had signed an affidavit
Mr. Moulder. I believe that question is a presumption you were a
member or associated with Communist activities.
Mr. Brock. If it does, I didn't so understand it or so intend the
answer.
Mr. ScHERER. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the
time you resigned from the bench ?
Mr. Brock. I have already declined to answer that question and all
similar questions.
Mr. ScHERER. Now let's get one more thing. Did the fact that you
signed an affidavit under oath on February 8, 1948, when you obtained
your position with the superior court, in which affidavit you swore
that you had never used any other name than Robert L. Broughton
have anything to do with your resignation ?
Mr. Brock. I might say the name Robert L. Broughton is the name
under which I was born.
Mr. ScHERER. I understand that.
Mr. Brock. I must decline to answer the question on the grounds
heretofore given.
Mr. Scherer. Did you tell the truth when you swore to this affidavit
on February 3, 1948, when you obtained your job in the Superior
court ?
Mr. Brock. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds hereto-
fore stated.
Mr. Scherer. You mean as a member of this bar that you are refus-
ing to tell his committee, sir, whether or not you told the truth when
you signed an affidavit under oath for a position with the court of this
county ?
]Mr. Brock. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds here-
tofore stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, the affidavit should be introduced in
evidence and I request that it be marked "Brock Exhibit No. 1," for
identification and retained in the committee files.
Mr. Doyle. It will be so received and so marked.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Chairman. I hate to delay the proceedings at
the closing of the hearings, but could the reporter go back and read
the question which Mr. Scherer asked, which was in substance "Did
your affiliation or association with the Communist Party influence
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1899
your resignation as a commissioner of the court V I would like to have
that question read, and the answer.
(The reporter read from his notes as follows :)
Mr. ScHERER. Did your association in Communist Party activities have any-
thing to do with your resignation from the bench?
Mr. Brock. No.
Mr. Moulder. "What was the answer ?
Mr. Brock. The answer was ''No." I can tell you, sir.
Mr. ScHERER. I have another question. At the time you resigned
did you make any public statement as to the reasons for your
resignation ?
Mr. Brock. I don't think so.
Mr. ScHERER. Wasn't there an article in the press about your
resignation ?
Mr. Brock. I don't think so. I think there probably was an article
in the legal paper that I was going to private practice.
Mr. ScHERER. And there was no statement that you made at that
time as to why you were resigning ?
Mr. Brock. If it was I don't remember it. Oh, I think so. I think
I said I was resigning to go into private practice. I will look at it
if you will show it to me.
Mr. ScHERER. That is right. Did you give any other reasons at
that time to the press for your resignation ?
Mr. Brock. If you have the article, the fair thing would be to let
me see it. This is a matter of a year and a half ago and I am sure
you don't want to be unfair.
Mr. ScHERER. No ; I don't want to be unfair.
Mr. Doyle. A year and a half isn't very long.
Mr. Brock. Quite long to remember a newspaper article.
Mr. ScHERER. Did you give any reasons when you resigned other
than that you wanted to go into the private practice of law ?
Mr. Brock. You mean in a newspaper article?
Mr. SciiERER. Yes.
Mr. Brock. Show me the article and I will tell you. It will speak
for itself. I don't think I did.
Mr. ScHERER. That is all I want to know because I don't have such
an article. You never did say at any time when you resigned that the
reasons, the most compelling reason that you were resigning was to
fight this committee ? Have you ever made that statement prior to the
time you prepared this memorandum for the press here today ?
Mr. Brock. Do you mean in the form of a press release, sir?
Mr. SciiERER. Any time. Did you ever make such a statement?
Mr. Brock. I have made it many times, sir.
Mr. ScHERER. You never made such a statement at the time you
left the bench ?
Mr. Brock. To individuals ; yes.
Mr. Doyle. You volunteered the statement that you made this
charge against this committee many times. I think in view of your
volunteering that statement I am entitled to ask you where you made
that statement in public.
Mr. Brock. You may be entitled to ask me, sir, but I won't answer
it on the grounds heretofore given.
Mr. Doyle. I think you have waived your privilege you might have
had and the answer is not satisfactory and I instruct you to answer.
1900 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Brock. I have made that statement to my wife and friends and
other people.
Mr. Doyle. Any public meeting ever ?
Mr. Brock. If so, I don't recall it.
Mr. Doyle. Yon don't recall it. You have made it in private but
not in a public meeting ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Brock. I may have made it from the platform when I resigned
from the board of education. I am not sure. I have made it of this
committee on more than one occasion.
Mr. Doyle. No, I am not sure of it. I am not sure you ever criti-
cized this committee in public.
You are a member of the California bar and so am I. You made a
charge here that I know is basically on a false premise, that is the way
I will put it. I will dignify it that way, although it is kind of hard
to do it, to give it any dignity, but you are a member of the bar and
you are under oath. Here is what you said, it is clear. I charge that
"this committee is attempting to punish me solely because of my
strenuous opposition to all the committee stands for."
We are here as American Congressmen under Public Law 601.
We .are here performing our official duty, which official duty by the
way has been assigned us from time to time by overwhelming vote of
the House of Representatives, overwhelming votes. Two votes against
this committee in the House, that is all, out of -164 or 465 and none
this last year. The House of Representatives unanimously approving
our functioning as we are. Xow I want to say to you that as a member
of this committee I would not have shared in any attempt to punish
you because you attacked this committee, but we have documentary
evidence and testimony under oath on occasions that you were a mem-
ber of the Communist Party, and we have presented some of it here
and you have pleaded your constitutional privilege. I merely want
the record to show and the press to know, that this charge by you is
based on absolutely a false premise, this committee did not come to
California to take your time or its time to bring you in merely because
you attacked the committee.
In fact, you can't identify a single time when you attacked this
committee in public. That is why I asked you that question.
Mr. ScHERER. Until after he was subpenaed.
Mr. Doyle. After he was subpenaed. That is why I asked you that
question. What knowledge did we have of you criticizing this com-
mittee ? We had no knowledge in that sense. It is a facetious and
false claim on your part and I am disappointed to find you making it.
Mr. SciiERER. I never knew this man existed until he took the stand.
Mr. Doyle. You are here now telling us for press release purposes
that we are punishing you because of your strenuous opposition to all
the committee stands for. We never heard of you criticizing the com-
mittee any place. We did hear of you as a Communist Party member
and you know it.
Mr. Brock. From whom, Mr. Doyle ?
Mr. Doyl,e. The document here which has been identified. You
don't even have it
Mr. Scherer. He doesn't deny that.
Mr. Doyle. I won't enter into that. At any rate I gave you the
opportunity to testify as to a single meeting where you criticized the
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1901
committee in public and you say you have done it in private only, as
far as you know.
How do you expect me or anybody in this room or anyone else to
believe your sincerity in that charge ? It is false.
Mr. ScHERER. That if^ the reason I asked him under oath whether
the statements here are true. He is going to have a hard time proving
that statement.
Mr. Moulder. Is the commissioner of the county court an elective or
an appointive office?
Mr. Brock. The practice here, sir, it is elected by the judges, not
elected by the people.
Mr. Moulder. I recall again the question which I asked the reporter
to read a while ago which was in substance : Did your association with
the Communist Party have anything to do with your resignation?
That question was propounded to you by Congressman Scherer. It
carries with it the implication on one construction that you are deny-
ing that you ever associated with the Communist Party. It also car-
ries a strong implication as to a double-barreled answer that you were
associated with the Communist Party, but it had nothing to do with
your resignation.
I am wondering whether or not you want to clarify the conflict in
the two constructions that can be made from that question and answer.
Mr. Brock. Was the question about my running for office or re-
signing? It slipped me. It was a question about my resignation?
The Communist Party so far as I know had nothing to do with my
resignation. I have never taken orders from the Communist Party
or anyone else.
Mr. Scherer. That wasn't my question. If you understand my
question to be that then you misunderstood my question. My question
was whether or not the questioning of you by officials connected either
directly or indirectly with the superior court here about your Com-
munist Party activities had anything to do with your resignation.
That was my question. I didn't ask whether the Communist Party
had anything to do with your resignation. Obviously they would want
to keep you on the bench.
Mr. Brock. The question is whether the questioning of me by public
officials had anything to do with my resignation.
Mr. Scherer. By anyone shortly before you retired ?
Mr. Brock. The answer is I have not admitted being questioned,
sir. You have assumed it. The answer to the question is that I have
already given you my reasons for resigning.
Mr. Scherer. Will you answer my question, whether or not the
questioning of you by any officials connected with the Superior Court
either directly or indirectly by the FBI or anyone else had anything
to do with your resigning a few days later ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr, Scherer. You may have had other reasons you say but I want
to know whether that had anything to do with your resigning.
Mr. Brock. Insofar as the question contains some implication that
there was a questioning — and I have already claimed the privilege
as to that — I must claim it again as to this question.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Moulder ?
65500 — 55 — pt. 4-
1902 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE' LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
Mr. Moulder. No questions.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Scherer ?
Mr. Scherer. I have no further questions.
Mr. Doyle. I hope if you did join the Communist Party — I am not
inferring you did, for the purpose of this question, but if you ever did
join it, sir, why don't you turn tables on whatever activity you have
shared in the Communist Party and give the benefit to your Nation
of your ability in the upholding of law ?
This is Public Law 601 under which we are here operating. Why
don't you give your Nation the benefit of upholding every declared
law ? You are not doing it as I see it. One statement here, one attack
you have made upon this committee is the
Mr. Brock. Mr. Doyle, it has not been my intention to attack the
committee on a personal level, sir.
Mr. Doyle. I understand that, and I don't know of any reason why
you could attack us on an individual, personal level, because we are
all members of the bar ; Mr. Moulder, a distinguished member of the
bar of Missouri ; Mr. Scherer of the State of Ohio ; and I supported
myself honorably in California law practice for 30 years. Now where
you refer to the decision of the Emspak case — and you base your attack
on the committee activities in part on the Emspak decision — I say
to you right here so you will understand, that the Emspak decision
does not go to the point that you say it goes to in this press release.
It does not go that far and again you are on a false premise, abso-
lutely false.
Here you are saying that the Chief Justice, former Governor of this
State, Earl Warren, charged, or in the Emspak case indicated that this
committee operated in a "highly immoral invasion of man's natural
rights." And it is false.
Mr. Brock. Read the question, sir. You will see that statement
refers to the earlier part of the sentence. You have read it incor-
rectly.
Mr. Doyle. It is in there. You may give it a technical explanation
if you can, but for the purpose of the reading of the press they would
think that Earl Warren charged us with immoral conduct.
Mr. Brock. Off the record now, I didn't mean to charge that.
Mr. Doyle. You had better correct it.
Mr. Brock. I alone charged you with that.
Mr. Doyle. Thank you. Witness, and Counsel.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Doyle. May I say it is customary for the cliairman of the
'Committee at the conclusion of a hearing to make a statement, some
observations about the hearing, perhaps, and some impressions we
get, some conclusions we draw, and so I have written out here just
more or less extemporaneously — a statement which I want to read
in part.
Upon conclusion of these week-long hearings in this area, this sub-
committee of the House ITn-American Activities Committee wishes to
express its appreciation to all government agencies and public offi-
cials in this very important metropolitan area who have been helpful
and cooperative in assuring the expeditious conduct in the business of
the committee.
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1903
In fact, every time we come to the Los Angeles area we always re-eive
tliis same gracious and helpful cooperation from all public officials
and agencies.
This subcommittee and its staff are appreciative of the fine standard
of public service rendered by all these men and ladies in the execution
of their duties.
United States Marshal Kobert Ware of Los Angeles County, Sheriff
Eugene W. Biscailuz and his deputies and assistants have rendered
valuable assistance and cooperation, as has Chief William Parker of
the Los Angeles Police Department and all officers under his command.
Mayor Poulson and his assistants and United States Attorney
Laugiilin Waters, have all been helpful with their staffs.
Now, I am glad that I was able to get the names of the individual
deputies of the United States Marshal's office and the Sheriff's office
because they certainly have been very cooperative and helpful. They
are here this morning when they might otherwise be off. They are
Deputy United States Marshals" Charles W. Ross, Edward E. Free-
man and John E. Sears.
Deputy Sheriffs Bert Caughey, Clarence Steinberg, Don Simpson,
Ralph Ciiervy, Galen Nichols, Charles Gilleland.
Mr. Stillwell, superintendent of Federal employees in this build-
ing, rendered valuable assistance to the committee. I would feel dere-
lict if I did not express a special word of appreciation in this regard
to Mr. Stillwell and his associates because this is a repetition of many
other courtesies when we have been here before. The ultimate success
of any hearing is dependent upon the adequacy of coverage, both news
and photography. In this respect the present hearing has been out-
standing. To the representatives of all the news media covering the
hearings this week, the committee extends its thanks and I have heard
nothing but commendation of the press and the manner in which they
have so accurately reported these hearings.
Wliile it is too early to evaluate fully the mass of testimony taken
during the course of the hearings, the committee is satisfied it has re-
ceived very important and valuable information, all of which will
help enable this committee of Congress to fulfill its obligation to the
Congress under the terms of Public Law 601, which specifically charges
this committee of only nine members, to investigate the extent and
character and objectives of subversive activities throughout our great
Nation, whether this subversive propaganda activity emanates from
some foreign counti^^ or from within our own borders.
In these present heai-ings we have again made it clear that we are
determined to investigate and expose subversive activity or subversive
propaganda wherever it shows its ugly head.
Our excellent investigative staff always does a very accurate field
job before we ever arrive in a city to conduct public hearings.
It is our duty to look into the extent of subversive activity and the
extent to which the Communist Party subversive program, or any
other subversive program, controls or infiltrates, wherever this trail
is found, to lead us in sufficient quantity to be material and within our
ability to substantiate by competent evidence.
Evidence clearly shows that the Communist Party began some time
ago to systematically infiltrate both political parties in California,
We urge the responsible leaders of these two major political parties in
California to be extremely vigilant to protect against this deliberate
1904 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA
attempt to weaken the sincere, patriotic expression of political patriot-
ism through the channels of both the major parties.
The clear evidence we have received under oath shows that the In-
dependent Progressive Party is likely so heavy with Communist Party
persons that it became in many places an effective tool of the Com-
munist Party. The Independent Progressive Party in California
did not qualify, I am informed, legally as a legal party in California.
We believe we are reliably informed that many former members, many
present members of the Communist Party to all intents and purposes
are recently undertaking to join the Democratic and Republican
Parties in Los Angeles County and throughout the State.
To the extent to which the Communists identified with the Inde-
pendent Progressive Party during its legal existence and still remain
Communists in intent and purpose and interests and objectives, such
persons joining either of patriotic major political parties would there-
fore infiltrate with continued subversive intent, which is always t3
disrupt, always to cause confusion and always to cause dissatisfaction
in any group in which they infiltrate.
Two patriotic American citizens who entered the confidential serv-
ice of the FBI for several years and who appeared as witnesses before
this committee have, of course, been by some of the witnesses called
stool pigeons and paid informers — that is, by some of the witnesses
here who have pleaded the fifth amendment.
The committee states that it approves the use of the fifth amend-
ment or any constitutional privilege wherever this witness does so
honestly and in good faith with the United States Constitution, but
we abhor — and so do you if you are patriotic Americans — the use of
it dishonestly and in bad faith.
We also know it is still the continued Communist Party line to have
their former or present members of the Communist Party always plead
their constitutional privilege, whether it is in rotten faith or in good
faith, even if it is dishonest, to avoid having this committee obtain as
much information as possible.
We thank the former FBI agents who appeared before this com-
mittee in these hearings and were so helpful in this hearing in Los
Angeles, as in other large cities; also witnesses who were formerly
Communist Party members in Los Angeles and in the Los Angeles
area and without subpena have cooperated with the committee on the
witness stand.
These have not been paid witnesses, nor paid informers, nor stool
pigeons, but are American citizens who have heretofore withdrawn
from the Community Party because they got their fill of Communist
garbage and on account of discovering it had no place in their lives
or in the life of our Nation and on account of becoming disgusted
with it or discovering its totalitarian and subversive purposes.
So these individuals who have cooperated with the committee came
to realize that it was their bounden public duty to their native country
to cooperate with this committee and help it expose wherever the
Communist Party had control or infiltrated any group.
We now again invite any other former Communist Party member
or present Communist Party member who has arrived at the same
point at which these cooperative witnesses have arrived, to also make
known their desire to help their Nation and come forward and let us
COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE LOS ANGELES, CALIF., AREA 1905
hear from them so that we can cooperate with them and they with us
and further expose the conspiracy.
During these hearings, as chairman I have publicly announced that
this committee had a standing invitation to any person who was named
as a Communist Party member by any witness before this committee
under oath to voluntarily come forward before the committee and take
the oath and deny or affirm as to the testimony in which they had been
named as Communist Party members.
We renew that standing invitation.
Also in this hearing room when it occurred that a witness named a
person who happened to be in the hearing room at the same time, and
who heard himself named as a Communist Party member, there was
again announced our standing invitation to such person so named to
come forward and take the oath, the same oath, and either deny or
affirm what the witness under oath had said about him. In these
hearings no such person has come forward, either directly or indirectly.
In these hearings very few witnesses from the field of labor have
stated that this committee was injuring labor. We repeat that this
committee has not and will not fail to refuse to investigate subversive
Communist Party activities in any area merely because it happens to
be in some particular area of American activity, whether it is in labor
or law or any other.
We note that the Communist Party has definitely sought to control
patriotic American labor. We congratulate patriotic labor organiza-
tion on their vigorous steps already taken to eradicate Communist
individuals or Communist Party activities and their continuing to do
it. We compliment them.
Again in this hearing, as in many areas throughout the United
States, the uncontradicted testimony of witnesses we believe reliable,
is that the Communist Party in the United States has as its ultimate
aim the forceful overthrow of our constitutional form of government
in favor of totalitarian Communist Party control as is in control in
the Soviet Union.
This committee in a few days goes to San Diego for a few days'
work there similar to that here in performance of our public duty and
we then return to our official duties at the Nation's Capital.
I want to thank the audience, you folks that have sat here from day
to day, or 1 day, or an hour, outside of too few incidents to be men-
tioned or emphasized, I want to say that I am sure we members of the
committee and staff all appreciate the understanding and cooperation
of most everyone who has ever been present as our guests in this room.
If there is nothing further, counsel and members, the committee
stands adjourned.
(Whereupon, at 1 : 10 p. m., July 2, 1955, the committee was recessed
subject to call.)
INDEX
Individuals
Page
Adams, Charlotte Darling 1541
Adams, Steve 1805
Aidlin, Joseph W 1753, 1754, 1771-1778 (testimony)
Alexander, Hershel 1827, 1857
Alexander, Lillian (Mrs. Hershel Alexander) 1857
Appelman, Max 176S-1771 (testimony)
Ashe, Harold 1754, 1771
Averbuclf, Elmer 1817
Avery, John B 1680
Baker, Nettie (Eddie) 1857
Baldo, John 1796
Bargeman, Bert. (See Bovperman, Irene B.)
Baron, Beatrice (Bea) 1815
Baron, Lou 1815
Barrv, Clemmie 1461
Beard, Cecil 1538-1543 (testimony)
Belt, Dave 1802
Bennett, Harry 1819
Bennett, Sophia (Mrs. Harry Bennett) 1819
Bennick, Rose Mary 1805
Benoitte, Charlotte 1819
Bilan, Anne 1826
Biluk, John 1805
Blair, Bud 1815, 1820
Blair, Mrs. Bud 1819
Blowitz, William 1575
Bodner, Ed 1804
Bowerman, Irene B. (formerly Bertha Bargeman) 1689-1696 (testimony)
Bovlan, Tom 1461
Brant, Carl 1747, 1819-1822
Brock, Robert L. (born Robert L. Broughton) 1889-1902 (testimony)
Brodsky, Merle 1817
Bronton, Leon, Jr 1827
Brooks, Arthur A 1889
Brooks, Miriam 1815
Broughton, Robert L. (See Robert L. Brock.)
Browder, Earl 1484
Brown, Archie 1461, 1822
Bryan, AI 1769
Buchanan, Harry 1738
Buchman, Sidney 1485
Burford, James (also known as Ron Hillyer) 1754, 1827-1836 (testimony)
Burton, Anne. ( See Pollock, Anne. )
Cain, Gary 1805
Callahan, Charlotte 1461
Cantu, Alice 1805
Cantu, Wayne 1805
Carl, C. C. (See Sugar, Carl.)
Cerney, Isobel 1517
Chemiel, Stanley 1811
Chernick, Ann 1856
Chernin, Rose 1517, 1822
I
Xi INDEX
Paee
-Chriss, Dave 1802, 1815
Chriss, Gene 1802
Chriss, Jean 1815
Chriss, Sally (Mrs. Gene Chriss) 1802,1817
Chriss, Sam 1788
Christiansen, Mel 1805
Clark, Leo : 1805
Clarke, Angela (married name Angela Wilkerson) 1523-1538 (testimony)
Cline, Paul 1733, 1769, 1818
Coffee, Bert 1801, 1849
Colton, Araby 1805
Colton, Victor 1805
Connelly, Philip 1821, 1822
Daggett, Charles 1773
Davis, Frank C 1616, 1679-1688 (testimony), 1758
Davis, Gorham 1699
Delnum, Andries 1474-1498 (testimony)
DeMaio, Ernest 1607-1609
Dexter, Edith 1805
Dexter, Mansell 1805
Dixon, James 1856
Dobbs, Ben 1822
Doyle, Bernadette 1509, 1517
Durant, Ray 1814
Elconin, Alice 1804
Elconin, William 1713-1731 (testimony)
Emery, Louis 1805
Engelberg, Hy 1822
Esterman, William B 1572-1575
Evans, Herb 1805
E^'ans, Ruth (Mrs. Herb Evans) 1805
Parmer, Virginia 1747, 1748
Fast, Howard 1609
Fein, Adrienne 1788, 1802
Fein, Chester 1788, 1815
Fisher, Ed 1810
Fisher, Onya 1810
Fitzgerald, Ed 1788, 1796
Flyiin, Elizabeth Gurley 1822
Forrest, Jim 1822
Pranchi, Davida 1744
Franchi, Fred 1748
Freed, Emll 1517, 1815
Freed, Tasia 1752, 1764-1767 (testimony), 1840-1842
Frieden, Mayer 1791
Frong, Barney 1802, 1804
Frong, Lillian 1788, 1796, 1802
Fujimoto, Sam 1805
Gardner, Helen 1769
Garrish, Georgiana (Mrs. John Garrish) 1782-1784, 1810
Garrish, Henry 1810
Garrish, John 1782-1784, 1810
Garrish, Laura R 1810
Garlin, Sender 1503
Gibson, Howard ; 1503
Gibson, Lolita 1500, 1501, 1503
Ginsberg, Leon 1822
Gladstone, Charles (also known as Charles Young) 1826
Glass, David B 1803
Glenn, Elizabeth Leich 1787, 1788, 1790, 1792, 1815
Goiack, John T 1607-1609
Goldman, Florence 1805
Goldman, Irving 1826
Goldstein, Beebe 1815
Goldstein, Buth 1813
Good, Jack 1802
INDEX iii
Page
Gordon, Emily 1785, 1786, 1812
Gorman, Mike 1787, 1788, 1796, 1799, 1811, 1815
Gray, Shirley 1822
Hagen. Edwin 1796, 1797, 1799, 1801, 1856
Hard, Martha. (See Wheeldin, Martha.)
Hardyman, Hugh (full name George Hugh Murray Maitland Hardyman)__ 1504,
1575-1598 (testimony), 1599-1655 (testimony), 1609, 1674
Hardyman, Susan 1661
Harris, Lew 1666
Harrison, William 1609
Hart, Marion 1804
Hawks, George 1805
Hay, Harry 1790, 1791, 1796, 1872-1875 (testimony)
Healy, Don 1803, 1804, 1826
Healy, Dorothy 1797, 1804, 1813, 1816, 1823-1826
Helgren, George 1757
Helgren, Nora (Mrs. George Helgren) 1756
Hillyer, Ron. (See Jim Burford.)
Hollingshead, Ed 1827
Houdeck, Cliff 1827
Houston, Gladys (Mrs. John Houston) 1810
Houston, John Waters 1783-1785,
1788, 1794, 1796, 1798, 1804, 1810, 1812, 1849, 1860-1872 (testimony)
Hwan, Lee Tnk 1557
Hyun, Alice 1502, 1553, 1556
Hyun, David 1520
Hyun, Peter 1501-1506
1508, 1509, 1512-1514, 1516, 1570, 1574, 1592, 1593, 1611, 1750
Hyun, Peter S., Sr 1706
Irvine, Ray 1461
Jelte, George 1685
Johnson, Mickey 1801
Johnson, Olaf 1802
Johnson, Pete 1811
Kadish, Frank 1822
Kang, Kim. (See Kim, Diamond.)
Karson, Charles 1809
Karson, Ida (Mrs. Jack Karson) 1788, 1802
Karson, Jack 1788, 1796, 1798, 1799, 1809, 1813
Karson, Morris 1809
Katz, Charles J 1667
Kellas, William 1787, 1789, 1798
Kelly, Earl 1801
Kemer, William 1501
Kennard, J. Spencer, Jr 1609
Kenny, Robert 1474, 1523, 1538, 1676, 1679, 1761, 1882
Kent, Rockwell 1609
Kibre, Jeff 1744
Kiloran, Pat 1822
Kim, Diamond (also known as Kim Kang) 1516,1543-1572 (testimony)
Kimple, William (also known as William Ward and William Wallace) _ 1458, 1469,
1731-1761 (testimony), 1773-1775, 1841
Kingsbury, John A 1503, 1505, 1510-1514, 1591, 1592
Kingsbury, J'ohn W 1601
Kingsbury, Mabel (Mrs. John A. Kingsbury) 1505, 1513, 1514
Konigsberg, Raphael 1601, 1612, 1613, 1615, 1655, 165&-1666 (testimony)
Korn, Eva 1822
Korngold, Morrey 1802, 1804
Korngold, Rochelle (Mrs. Morrey Korngold) 1802, 1804
Kramer, Jerry (Jack) 1803, 1811
Kuchler, Alfred 1609
Kutnick, Sam 1463
Kykyri, Dorothy (Mrs. John Kykyri) ^ x —^— 1517, 1518
Kykyri, John 1517, 1518
Kyung Sun. (See Lee, Sa Min.)
Lambert, Rudy (or Rudie) 1461, 1822
iv INDEX
Page
Langer, Verna 1504, 1506, 1517
Lardner, Ring, Jr 1813, 1822
Lavino, Ernest 1461
Lawson, John Howard 1485, 1786
Lawson, Sue 1572-1575 (testimony), 1833
Lee, Sa Min (also known as Kyung Sun) 1551-1553, 1556, 1558
Leiiman, Bob 1893, 1895
Lehr, Wenzel 1805
Leiva, Gerda 1805
Lima, Albert 1822
Lindbergh, Virginia 1461
Lohr, George 1822
Love, Rudy - 1803
Lovett, Robert Morss 1609
Lynn. Frances 1817
Maddox, Edward Carter 1875
Maise, Wilhelmina 1782, 1815
Mancar, Elsie 1803, 1804, 1820
Margolis. Ben 1689, 1707
Marshall, Daniel G 1668, 1676, 1679, 1844, 1845, 1848
Massey, Henry 1461
Matiisow, Harvey 170f>
McComb, Dan 1790, 1796, 1798, 1799, 1815
Mcromb, Eleanor (or Ellen; Mrs. Dan McComb) 1796,1803
MeCord, Louise 1816
McCormick, Larue 1826, 1827
McGenty, Naomi 1747
McNeil, Jackie 1461
Meyer, Margaret Vaughn (nee Vaughn) 1806, 1844-1849 (testimony)
Min, Lee Sa 1560
Monjar, Elsie 1794, 1856. 1865
Moos. Elizabeth 1503-1506
Morford, Richard 1504, 1505, 1507
Morley, Barbara 1817
Morley, Karen 1607-1609
Morrison, Philip 1609'
Moss, Jack 1823
Mucha, Reva 1505, 1507, 151ff
Musick. Laura Lee 1796, 1797. 1803, 1804
Natapoff, Max Benjamin (also known as Max Roth) _ 1751, 1761-1764 (testimony)
Nester, Fletcher 1823
Nester, Sophie 1823
Norfjor, Helen 1815
O'Neil, Bill 1815
Oppenheimer, Frank 1698
Orr, Paul Wright 1440-1473 (testimony)
Orr, Violet (Mrs. Paul Orr) 1461, 1463
Ostrelmer, Ken 1817
Osvald, Clara (Mrs. William Kimple) 1745
Pacifico, Lawrence 1802
Pacifico, Ola 1798, 1799, 1817
Paolone, Clementina J 1609
Parrett, Bronson 1794, 1795, 1809
Parrett, Fern (Mrs. Bronson Parrett) 1794, 1795, 1803, 1804
Patton, Jack 1461
Pekstan, Carl 1805
Pelman, Matt (Mat) 1749, 1750, 1769
Perry, Pettis 1769, 1817
Pestana, Frank : 1872
Phieffer, Frank : ; . 1805
Pinkston, Earl 1805
Pittman, John 1461
Pollock, Anne (also known as Anne Burton) 1752,
1765, 1766, 1826, 1836-1844 (testimony)
Potter, Eleanor 1809
INDEX V
Page
Potter, Vernon L 1780, 1782, 1783, 1788, 1796, 1799, 1809
Prater, William 1451
Prokel 1699
Pyen, Choon Ho 1549, 1551, 1553, 1556, 1558
Kaiden, Mary (Mrs. Joseph Aidlin) 1753, 1754, 1773
Rankin, Mary. (See Taylor, Ellen.)
Ransom, Willard 1609
Remington, William 1503, 1504
Resner, Herbert 1461
Richardson, Thomas 1609
Richman, Ben 1817, 1818
Richmond. Al 1817, 1818
Roberts, Harold 1815
Robeson, Paul 1510
Robinson, Marguerite 1517
Rosenbersc, IVIeta Reis 1575
Rossen, Robert— 1484, 1485
Rosser, I.ou 1796
Roth, Max. (See Natapofif, Max Benjamin.)
Ruso, Pat — — _ 1802
Russell, Maud 1505
Samuels, William 1548
Sandy, George 1791, 1792, 1816, 1817
Sazer, Ester Miller 1817
Schlesinger, Tess 1755
Schmidt. Judy 1818
Schneider. Anita Bell 1498-1521 (testimony), 1568, 1569, 1620
Schneiderman, William 1700, 1750, 1813, 1814, 1851, 1852
Schoechet, Nathan L 1837, 1838, 1840, 1842
Schonfield, Sylvia 1601, 1616, 1668-1675 (testimony), 1673
Schorr. Ruth 1802, 1804
Schribner, David 1718
Shafran, Eva 1786
Shanchig, Mike 1744
Shapiro, Nathan 1826, 1856
Sherman, Al 1818
Sherman, Miriam Brook (Mrs. Al Sherman) 1818
Shermis, Celia 1517
Sik. Sin Tu 1556
Silver, Max 1485, 1575, 1709, 1710, 1769, 1785, 1812, 1813, 1816, 1835
Siminov, Trudy 1817
Simmons, Herbert 1656
Smith, Delphine 1817
Smith. Edith 1784, 1787, 1788, 1796, 1798, 1799, 1805, 1815
Smith, Juanita 1783
Smith, Ruth 1805
Sniffen, Jane 1818
Sparks, Alice Ward (Mrs. Nemmy Sparks) 1795, 1814, 1820, 1856
Sparks, Nemmy 1816, 1853, 1856
Spector, Frank 1517, 1817
Spencer. Yaino (Mrs.) 1764
Stack, Loretta 1818
Stack, Walter 1461
Stapp, Frances 1817
Stapp. John 1815
Starcovik, Dave 1519
Stark, Louis 1787, 1788, 1796, 1799, 1800, 1882-1889 (testimony)
Stark. Marion (Mrs. Lou Stark) 1788, 1798, 1799
Staughton, Gertrude 1826
Steinberg, Beatrice , 1517
Steinberg, Henry 1822
Steinmetz, Harry 1501
Stevens, Arthur 1500, 1501, 150^
Stevenson, June 1461
Stout, Ann 1461
Strange, Arthur 1744
vi INDEX
Page
Straus, Leon 1609
Strong, Anna Louise 1581
Strout, Nathan 1802
Sugar Carl (also known as C. C. Carl) 1697-1704 (testimony)
Sullivan, Pauline 1788, 1802
Sun, Kwak Chong 1556
Sunoo, Harold W 1551, 1552, 1558
Swanhauser, Jane 1822
Talley, James 1822
Talon, Tony 1806
Tanzman, Jules 1803
Taylor, Byron 1804
Taylor, Eleanor 1798, 1799
Taylor, Ellen (also known as Mary Rankin) 1796
Tenoyucca, Anna 1819
Tomren, I. M 1802
Trojan, Ann 1815, 1856
Tse-tung, Mao 1501, 1505
Twine, E. C 1826
Ultrich, Harry 1826
Uphaus, Willard 1609
Vandervoort, Pen 1805
Vandervoort, Susan (Mrs. Pen Vandervoort) 1805
Vaughn, Margaret. (See Meyer, Margaret Vaughn.)
Vidaver, Matthew, SamueL, Jr 1601,1704,1707-1713 (testimony)
Wallace, Floyd 1804
Wallace, Henry 1518
Wallace, Shevey (Mrs. Floyd Wallace) 1804,1817,1827
Wallace, William. {See Kimple, William Ward.)
Walsh, Patrick 1728
Ward, Alice. (See Sparks, Alice Ward.)
Ward, Sybil 1804
Ward, William. {See Kimple, William Ward.)
Warford, Dave 1826
Warren, Virginia , 1823
Watkins, Charles C 1804
Weintraub, William 1826, 1855
Weber, S. A. ( -See Wereb, Stephen A. )
Wellington, Chong 1554,1557
Wereb, Stephen A. (also known as S. A. Weber) 1779-1827
(testimony), 1838, 1840, 1846-1848, 1851-1859 (testimony), 1865,
1874, 1883.
Westman, Arden (or Harden) 1827,1856
Weyl, Nathaniel, Jr , 1510
Wheeldin, Martha Hard (formerly Martha Hard) 1827,
1859, 1875-1882 (testimony)
White, Eliot 1609
Whitley, Frank , 1815
Whitney, Anita 1766
Wilkerson, Angela. {See Clarke, Angela.)
Wilkerson, Mel 1788
Wilkerson, Mrs. Mel , 1804
Wilkerson, Robert 1826
Wilkinson, Jean 1001,1614,1615,1676-1678 (testimony)
Wilson, Elizabeth 1575
Wirin, A. L 1440, 1575, 1599, 1768
Wolf, William 1786
Won, Sonu Hak 1560, 1556
Yates, Oleta O'Connor 1461, 1854
Yong, Pak Hon . 1552
Young, Adele 1815
Young, Charles. {See Gladstone, Charles.)
25amudio, Blanche 1804
INDEX vii
Organizations
Page
Abraham Lincoln Brigade 1799, 1813
American Committee for Protection of the Foreign Born : Los Angeles
Committee 1834
American Federation of Radio Artists 1527
American League Against War and Fascism 1697
American Peace Crusade 1501, 1505, 1568, 1573, 1593, 1594, 1607, 1609
Northern California 1501
Southern California 1501, 1504, 1505, 1513, 1516, 1568, 1570, 1573,
1574, 1578, 1579, 1591-1593, 1596, 1597, 1617, 1618, 1620, 1832-1834
Executive Board 1502, 1516
San Diego Peace Forum 1500, 1501, 1503, 1505, 1514, 1516
Executive Board 1502
American-Russian Institute (Los Angeles) 1505-1507
American Veterans Committee 1811, 1812
American Women for Peace 1609
Asian and Pacific Peace Conference. (See Peace Conference of the Asian
and Pacific Regions.)
California Institute of Technology 1465-1468, 1470-1472
California Labor School (San Francisco) 1510, 1873
Civil Rights Congress 1500
Communist Party :
California 1451, 1518
Hollywood: Unit J-5 1841
Los Angeles City 1458
Adams group 1815
57th Assembly Branch 1841, 1842
Hawthorne Club 1798, 1864
Rhetta Club 1815
South Side Section 1819, 1820
Unit A-3 1894
Watts Club 1857
West Lake Club 1782
Los Angeles County 1817, 1857
San Diego 1510, 1516-1520
San Francisco : North Beach No. 1 Club 1463
Communist Political Association 1461, 1462
Daily People's World 1461
Democratic Peoples Front League 1556
Digest of Soviet News 1507
Electrical Radio and Machine Workers of America. United 1714
Friends of Ormsby Village 1616, 1673, 1674, 1678
Friends of the Soviet Union 1449,1550
German-American Bund 1697
Hollywood Writers Mobilization 1693
Independent Progressive Party 1500, 1503, 1518, 1800, 1801, 1834, 1884
California 1611, 1663, 1693, 1694
San Diego County Central Committee 1518
State Central Committee 1835
West Adams Club 1 1610
International Bookstore (San Francisco) 1462
International Labor Defense 1751
International Scientific Commission for the Investigation of the Facts
Concerning Bacterial Warfare in Korea and China 1623
International Workers Order (Los Angeles) 1460
Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee 1817
Korean Independence 1516, 1549, 1552, 1553, 1556, 1557, 1559, 1566, 1567
Longslioremen's and Warehousemen's Union, International 1729
Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers Union, United 1803
National Council of American-Soviet Friendship 1503-1506, 1511
Ormsby Hill Trust, The 1619
Ormsby Village for Youth Foundation 1612,
1613, 1015, 1619. 1660, 1661, 1665, 1674, 1677, 1678, 1682
Peace Conference of the Asian and Pacific Regions 1584, 1585, 1611, 1619
Viii INDEX
Page
Peiping Peace Conference. {See Peace Conference of the Asian and
Pacific Regions.) -, „ .^
Peking Peace Conference. (See Peace Conference of the Asian and Pacific
Regions.)
People's Educational Center, The -_ l78b
Progressive Bookshop, The (Los Angeles) 1815,1855,1857
Progressive Party }qka
Russian Information Service 1854
Screen Actors Guild 1^^27
Screen Cartoonists Guild 1541
Screen Office Employees Guild 1692, 1693
Seamen's Union, Canada 1'729
Southern California Peace Crusade. (See American Peace Crusade.)
Stockholm Peace Appeal 1596, 1597
Stockholm Peace Conference 1511
Thirtieth District Young Democrats 1519
Unemployed Councils IIM
United States, Government of : Office of Strategic Services 1476,
1477, 1492, 1493, 1547
Workers Alliance 1J^4
Workers Ex-Servicemen's League (Los Angeles) 1734, 17o5
Young Communist League 1736, 1742, 1749, 1791
Young Pioneers IISQ, 1742
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