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Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the Columbus, Ohio, area. Hearings"

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Given By 
Coir^fiittee ot Un-Aiaerican Activities 



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INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 

COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 






V 



^ HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 



EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



JUNE 17 AND 18, 1953 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
INCLUDING INDEX 





UNITED STATES 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 1'' 

35663 WASHINGTON : 1953 j ^ 



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COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
United States House of Repeesentatives 

HAROLD H. VBLDE, Illinois, Chairman 
^RD W. KEARNEY, New York FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania^ 

:^D L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri 

jARDY, Michigan CLYDE DOYLE, California 

>N H. SCHERER, Ohio JAMES B. FRAZIER, JR., Tennessee 

Robert L. Kunzig, Counsel 

Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel 

LOUIS J. Russell, ChieJ Investigator 

Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Cleric 

Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 

I 



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CONTENTS 



June 17, 1953, testimony of — Page 

Bella V. Dodd 1741 

Nerval Neil Luxon 1777 

Barbara Ann Darling 1783 

Byron Thorwell Darling 1795 

June 18, 1953, testimon.y of — 

Byron Thorwell Darling (resumed) 1799 

Flora Webster 1823 

Bereniece ("Toby") Baldwin 1829 

Appendix 1837 

Index 1839 

III 



PUBLIC LAW 601, 79TH CONGRESS 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted bij the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rtile X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

RuxE XI 

POWEES AND DUTIES OP COMMITTEES 



(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) Tlie Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attaclis the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the ctiairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 83d CONGRESS 

House Resolution 5, January 3, 1953 
M * * * if * * 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con- 
gress, following standing committees : 

* * * * * « * 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 
******* 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 



17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American Activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
<2) the diffiusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in 
any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued xmder 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 

VI 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 



wednesday, june 17, 1953 

United States House of Representatives, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Colwmbus^ Ohio. 
PUBLIC hearing 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to call, at 10 : 15 a. m., in hearing room 2, State Office Build- 
ing, Columbus, Ohio; Hon. Gordon H. Scherer (acting chairman) 
presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Gordon H. Scherer, 
Kit Clardy, and Francis E. Walter. 

Staff members present: Robert L. Kunzig, counsel; Donald T. 
Appell, investigator; and Thomas W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk. 

Sergeant at arms : Claude Woodward. 

Present as invited guest-observers: Hon. Samuel Devine, member 
of the Ohio Legislature and chairman of the Ohio Commission on 
Un-American Activities; and Sidney Isaacs, counsel for the Ohio 
Commission on Un-American Activities. 

Mr. Scherer. The committee will be in session. 

Let the record show that the Honorable Harold H. Velde, chairman 
of the House Committee on Un-American Activities of the United 
States Congress has appointed the Honorable Kit Clardy of Michigan, 
the Honorable Francis E. Walter of Pennsylvania, and Gordon 
Scherer of Ohio as a subcommittee to conduct these hearings in Co- 
lumbus, Ohio, on June 17, 1953. 

Let the record show that all members of that subcommittee are 
present. 

In the future when the word "committee" is used, it shall refer to 
this subcommittee as far as the record is concerned. 

Also present are Mr. Robert L. Kunzig, counsel for the committee, 
Mr. Donald T. Appell, investigator, and Mr. Thomas W. Beale, Sr., 
the chief clerk of the committee. 

At this time, the chairman appoints Mr. Claude Woodward as 
sergeant at arms for these hearings and the sergeant at arms shall 
have the right to appoint such assistant sergeants at arms as he may 
deem necessary. 

The record will also show that the committee has invited as guest- 
observer at this hearing, the Honorable Samuel Devine, member of 
the Ohio Legislature and chairman of the Ohio Commission on Un- 
American Activities, and the counsel of that committee and director 
of that committee, Mr. Sidney Isaacs. 

1739 



1740 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

At the opening of these hearings of the House Committee on Un- 
American Activities of the Congress of the United States, it seems 
proper and it might be helpful if the purpose and activity of the 
committee is restated. 

The committee is charged by law with investigating the extent, 
character and object of un-American activities in the United States. 

It is charged with investigating the diffusion in the United States 
of subversive and un-American propaganda that is instigated from 
foreign countries or is of a domestic origin, and attacks the principle 
and form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution. 

The reason such duties are placed upon the committee is to aid the 
Congress in determining whether or not remedial legislation is neces- 
sary with respect to these activities and to help enlighten the Ameri- 
can people with reference thereto. 

Since our country is presently engaged in both a hot and cold war 
with Communist dominated countries, this committee of the 83rd 
Congress is primarily devoting its attention and work to investigat- 
ing and revealing the Communist conspiracy in this country. It has 
been fully established in testimony before congressional committees 
and before the highest courts of our land that the Communist Party 
of the United States is part of national conspiracy which is being 
used as a tool or weapon by a foreign power to promote its own for- 
eign policy and which has for its object the overthrow of the govern- 
ments of all non-Communist countries, resorting to the use of force 
and violence if necessary. 

The program for world domination has been clearly set forth by 
the leaders of the Kremlin conspiracy. All who read may know the 
means and methods by which this objective of world domination is 
contemplated to be brought about. 

The official publications of the Communist conspiracy tell in minute 
detail of a new method of conquest, a new method of warfare, never 
attempted by those men or nations that sought world domination. 

The Communist conspiracy provides for the infiltration of every 
phase and field of American life. Communist objectives are to create 
strife between labor and management and within the labor group it- 
self, to cause people to be suspicious and distrustful of the Govern- 
ment and the law enforcement agencies thereof, to make them dis- 
satisfied with the American way of life, particularly its economic sys- 
tem, to create doubts concerning their religious teachings, to set class 
against class, minorities against majorities, and even minorities 
against minorities when it suits their purpose. 

It is a process of attempting to soften and weaken the American 
people and its institutions so that when the time comes to move in, 
the task will be so much easier to accomplish. This is not theory. The 
Soviet Union has brought behind the Iron Curtain 600 million people 
since 1933 by the use of these methods. Of course, such a conspiracy 
can act only through individuals. These individuals must promote 
the Communist program in the various American institutions with 
which they are identified since they cannot act in a vacuum. We find 
them active in the labor movement, in industry, in Government, in 
our educational institutions, in the entertainment field, and I am sorry 
to say, in some instances in the field of religion. 

The committee is not investigating these institutions. As an ex- 
ample, this committee as such has no interest in the labor movement 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1741 

or in labor's problems with management, or in labor's own inner con- 
flicts. It has no interest as such in the personnel that teach in our 
schools or colleges, nor in the curriculum or type of textbooks used 
therein. . These are matters that lie solely within the province of 
the administrators of our educational institutions. 

We are engaged, however, in throwing light upon the nefarious and 
subtle activities of those individuals who are promoting the Com- 
munist conspiracy so that the average American may know them and 
recognize the activities and propaganda of a foreign power when he 
comes in contact with it, either in the shop, in school, in church, or in 
any other phase of everyday life. 

Now, some persons say that the Communist menace is being exag- 
gerated. However, within the last 60 days, J. Edgar Hoover, head of 
the Federal Bureau of Investigation, testified under oath before the 
Appropriations Committee of the Congress. He said the Communists 
today are infiltrating every field of American activity, namely, civil 
rights, youth and veterans' groups, press, radio, television, motion pic- 
ture, political organizations, schools, and colleges. 

He further testified that espionage rings are working more intensely 
than ever before in the history of the United States. Remember this 
is the testimony of Mr. Hoover within the last 60 days. 

There ai^e those who argue that communism is only a political belief 
or a philosophy. It certainly is not a political party as we know 
political parties in this country. That is a misnomer. 

It is a conspiracy dominated by a foreign power. True it is that 
the philosophy of communism appears to be an attractive philosophy. 
Christianity teaches the brotherhood of man and the fatherhood of 
God. Communism purports to teach the brotherhood of man without 
God. However, the ideological phase of communism is used only to 
ensnare the masses. Behind it lies the age-old lust for power and 
domination by evil men. 

Mr. Counsel, is your first witness ready ? 

Mr. KuNziG. The first witness is Dr. Bella Dodd. Please step 
forward. Dr. Dodd. 

Mr. ScHERER. Will you raise your right hand. Doctor ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give to this sub- 
committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Dr. Dodd. I do. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, are you accompanied by an attorney? 

TESTIMONY OF BELLA V. DODD 

Dr. Dodd. I am not. 

Mr. KuNZTG. You understand, of course, your rights to have an at- 
torney here ? The committee encourages anyone to have an attorney 
with them if they so wish. I take it that you 

Dr. Dodd. My attorney was unable to be here today and I decided to 
come alone. 

Mr. KuNziG. You are perfectly willing to testify without an at- 
torney ? 

Dr. Dodd. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you give your full name please, for the record? 

Dr. Dodd. Bella V. Dodd. 



1742 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. KuNZiG. What is voiir present address ? 

Dr. DoDD. 100 West 42d Street, New York City. 

Mr. KuNziG. Your profession ? 

Dr. DoDD. Attorne3\ 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you <rive tlie committee a resume of your educa- 
tional background. Dr. Dodd'^ 

Dr. DoDD. I went to the public schools. I went to public ele- 
mentary and high schools and attended Hunter College, one of the 
public colleges in New York, from which I received my bachelor of 
arts degree. I did my master's work and worked toward the doctorate 
in political science at Columbia from which I received a master of arts 
degree. 

Mr. KuNziG. In what year did you receive that degree ? 

Dr. DoDD. In 1927. I received doctor of jurisprudence degree from 
New York University and was admitted to the New York bar in 1931. 

Mr. KuNziG. And that ends your formal education in schools ? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. I know you have had a lot more since then. 

Dr. Dodd, would you give the committee, for the record, a resume 
of your employment background, your occupation ? 

Dr. Dodd. Well, I taught in the New York public schools and 
high schools for several months after graduating from college. I 
graduated from college in 1925, and in 1926 I was called back to 
Hunter College to teach in their political science and economics de- 
partment, and I taught there from 1926 to 1938. 

In 1938, I resigned from my job as instructor at Hunter College, 
and decided to go into the labor movement. I became an organizer 
and legislative representative of the New York Teacher's Union. It 
was a local union of the American Federation of Teachers. 

Thereafter I organized the New York Federation of Teachers and 
became its organizer and continued with the teachers' movement until 
1943 at which time I joined the Communist Party as an official member 
with a card. 

At that time, I became a legislative representative of the Communist 
Party of the New York district. I resigned from my position as legis- 
lative representative of the Communist Party in 1946 and went back 
into the practice of law. I have been practicing law since then. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you tell the committee, please, what offices in 
the Communist Party you held, if any? 

Dr. Dodd. Well, I worked with the Communist Party from 1932 to 
1943 in various capacities, but not known as a Communist. I did 
not carry a card. As a matter of fact, the Communist Party made it 
very emphatic that professional people engaged in public service who 
had public jobs were not to be exposed and were not to be card- 
carrying members. I was not even a ]iart of a cell, but I worked with 
them in the trade-union movement since my union was an A. F. of L. 
union at the time. I served as part of the fraction in that union for 
the purpose of moving it in the direction of the Communist Party. 

After the Teheran Conference and Yalta Conference, we were 
told the United States and the Soviet Union were going forward 
to a hundred years of peace. 

Mr, KuNziG. Would you continue? 

Dr. Dodd. We were discussing my party activities. 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1743 

Dr. DoDD. In 1943, when the theory of the party was tliat we were 
going into a period of mutual coexistence between the capitalist 
world and Connnunist world, we were told there would be peace for 
a hundred years to come between the two worlds, and each would 
learn from the other. At that time, I w\as approached by Gil Green, 
State chairman of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Clardy. In what State ? 

Dr. DoDD. New York State. He approached me at a State hear- 
ing on the budget where I was representing my union at the budg- 
etary hearings. He asked whether I would join the party and become 
its legislative representative. Simon Gerson, their representative 
at tliat time, was going into the Army. I said I would. 

I became the legislative representative in lOii and continued until 
1946. I became a member of the State committee of the Communist 
Party. I became a member of the State secretariat consisting of 
three people, wdiich met day by day to decide what was to be done. 
I became a member of the national committee of the Communist 
Party from 1944 to 1948. I remained a member of the State Com- 
munist Party of New York, 1944-48. I was expelled from the Com- 
munist Party publicly after much harassment in 1949; June 19, 1949. 

Mr. ScHEREE. I am going to have to interrupt. 

It is, of course, very important that the press hear every word. 
They continue to indicate to me that they can't hear in the place they 
are seated. We will have to remedy that condition. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, I have a suggestion. Let's move them 
in fi'ont and perhaps they can hear. 

We will take time out for that. 

Mr. ScHERFJ}. We will take a short recess. 

(Short recess.) 

Mr. ScHERER. Tlie committee will be in session. 

You may proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd. due to the difficulties of acoustics, we have 
been requested, if you wouldn't mind, if you would kindly answer 
tlie last question again and give in detail your party offices and your 
position in the party through the years. 

Mr. Walter. Before doing that, Mr. Counsel, Mr. Chairman, I 
would like to ask a question of Dr. Dodd. 

You have testified that you were instructed, as were other members 
of the professional group, not to carry your Communist Party card. 
Was that a uniform rule in existence tliroughout the United States or 
only in New York ? 

Dr. Dodd. It w^as a uniform rule throughout the United States that 
professional people were to be protected. In many cases, they did 
not receive cards. If they were in very high and important posi- 
tions, such as Government positions or civil service, no cards were 
issued. Cards were held by the secretaries, various membership 
secretaries, and they were held under a first name or a pseudonym. A. 
card might be held under the name of "\^niitey, or Blackey, or Eed, or 
Mar}'-, or Jane, or Nancy. 

Mr. Walter. Then there is no significance to the fact that some 
people regarding whom we have evidence of being card-carrying 
Communists didn't actually have cards issued ? 

Dr. Dodd. There was no significance whatever when it came to 
people important in the civil service or the professions. 



1744 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. Clardt. Carrying a card wasn't an essential part of the busi- 
ness of being a Communist ? 

Dr. DoDD. It was not. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, would you go again, please, through the 
party offices you held ? 

Dr. DoDD. I became associated with the Communist Party in 1932, 
when I first began to cooperate with the party. By 1936, I was not 
only cooperating with the party, but I was under discipline. By 
that, I mean I attended various fraction meetings of the various or- 
ganizations to which I belonged. For instance, I was a delegate to 
the Central Trades and Labor Council for the American Federation 
of Labor in New York. I was a delegate to the State Federation of 
Labor conventions practically all of those years, and I attended the 
Communist fraction meetings for the American Federation of Labor. 

I was a member of the Teachers' Union and leader of the Teachers' 
Union, and attended its fraction meetings of the executive board and 
various parts of the Teachers' Union. 

By 1943, 1 was still a representative of my union. At that time, the 
party asked whether I wouldn't come forward publicly and become 
a member of the Communist Party, and an officer of the Communist 
Party. 

Many of their men were going into the world war, and Si Gerson, 
whose place I took as legislative representative, was going into the 
Army. At that time, I was sold the idea that there would be mutual 
coexistence between the Communists and the western world. There 
would be a period of a hundred years of peace between the two differ- 
ent ideologies, and what was needed in this country was an antidote 
to Eed baiting. Since I believed the Communists at that time were 
going ahead with improving the conditions of the world, I said I 
would do it. 

Mr. Clardt. You mean that was the party line at that time ? 

Dr. Dodd. That is correct. That was the party line, and became 
the party line of many of the liberals of this country and much of 
the Government of this country. We received that kind of informa- 
tion from the party and also from Washington. 

In 1943, since I believed the things which they said they stood for, 
I said I would be willing to serve as legislative representative. I be- 
came the legislative repersentative. I became a member of the State 
committee, and I was appointed as a member of the secretariat of the 
New York State party. There were three members of the secretariat. 
That was the group that met every day to decide what should be done 
by the State party. The secretariat served between meetings of the 
State board and the State board served between meetings of the State 
committee. 

In 1944, 1 became a member of the national committee of the Com- 
munist Party. I attended the national convention of 1944, and be- 
came a member of the national committee. 

In the spring of 1945, when the tremendous change in the party 
line took place because of the Duclos letter sent from France to the 
United States which said we American Communists had better stop 
playing the democracy game, stop working so closely with the liberals 
and democrats and get back to the job of preparing for revolution, 
at that time, I was a delegate to the convention in 1945. I was elected 
again to the national committee, and remained on the national com- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1745 

mittee until 1948, when the new convention, of course, failed to elect 
me, because I had gotten into difficulties with the party in the interim. 

Mr. Clardt. Dr. Dodd, I would like to take up one little point that 
you mentioned in the middle of your last answer. You talked about 
fraction meetings within the A. F. of L. In order to correct any mis- 
apprehensions, you are not trying to say, of course, that the A. F. of L. 
was a Communist group; would you correct that further? 

Dr. DoDD. By no means. None of the big organizations in which 
they function may be Communist. For instance, within the A. F. of L. 
the few Communists who were in there were strongly organized, and 
this is tlie secret of the Communist movement: Centralization and 
organization. 

You might have five delegates to the American Federation of Labor 
convention who were Communists, but they met in advance, decided 
what they were going to do in advance, discussed among themselves 
what they could accomplish at that convention, and they, at least, 
would be armecl and would get something out of that convention 
when the others might not know what they were driving at. 

Of course, they would always set the objectives as limited objectives. 

For instance, they would ask that some resolution on war or peace 
be passed, depending on what the Soviet policy was. 

Take, for instance, the women's club. I was a member of the 
women's committee and the committee on education and youth and^ 
labor. It was our function to get into all the women's organizations 
we possibly could. I don't say many of the women's clubs are Com- 
munist, of course they are not, but the Communists within those 
women's organizations function as a centralized unit, prepared in 
advance, coached in advance by the party leaders as to what their 
objectives, what their aims were, and what they could get out of these 
organizations. 

That is the secret of their success, the fact that they are prepared 
in advance, have been coached in advance. 

Mr. Walter. Doctor, before you go further, can you give us the 
names of the New York State secretariat of the Communist Party? 

Dr. Dodd. At the time I functioned, Gil Green, wdio is now no 
longer in the United States, Israel Amter, and myself. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, I think the committee would be most inter- 
ested in hearing how you became a Communist; the events and the 
things that happened in your life that led to your becoming an active 
Communist. 

Dr. Dodd. Well, I daresay that many of the people going through 
the same experiences that I went through might not have become 
Communists ; many did not. Whatever weaknesses there were within 
me that made me a Communist, as I look back, these are the things 
which conditioned me. 

My people were immigrants in this country. I was the youngest 
in a family of 10. The struggle for a living was a hard struggle. 
Our family lost touch with the culture of Europe and didn't become 
absorbed into the culture of the United States. We lived in a great, 
big city, where it was a question of dog eat dog, and the devil take 
the hindmost. Our family stopped going to church and having any 
connection with the church, which is an important part of its cultural 
background. 



1746 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS DHIO, AREA 

We children, of course, went to the pul)lic schoo.5. I liappened to 
be a briglit child. I was encouraged to develop my mind to a great 
extent, and we had a great deal of pride in the fact that we could 
solve all the problems by the use of our minds. We tended to forget 
the M'hole question of the spiritual side based on the accumulated 
wisdom of western civilization. 

In our public schools, by and large, they do not have, or did not 
haA'e at that time, any real central ideal on which they were based, 
or central philosophy on whicli they were based. It was' a question of 
acquiring facts and skills. You acquired a lot of information, but 
you had no standard by which to judge these facts. 

I was a warm-hearted kind of person ; my heart, like many Ameri- 
cans, went out to the underdog. In the early lOoO's, the family had 
grown up, and I had the opportunity to g'o to Europe. I visited 
Italy and Germany. I was appalled by the growth of fascism in 
Italy and more distressed over what was happening in Germany. On 
the campus in Germany, I saw young men fighting with fists, guns, 
rocks, and so forth and so on. 

I came back to the United States a firm and confirmed anti-Fascist. 
I was determined that that thing would not touch my country, the 
people I knew. When I got back, Ave were deep in the depression. 
Immediately after I got back, the banks closed. I stood on 42d Street 
.and watched the Bowery Savings Bank close and watched the line of 
people scared stiff as to what was going to happen to them. 

I was an easy person to approach. Nobody else approached me at 
that time, but the Communists were on my doorstep with the question, 
"We hear you are an anti-Fascist. Will you join the committee?" 

I Avas the kind of person who felt if you believed in something 
strongly, you had to act. I was an anti-Fascist. They asked me to 
join a committee. I did. I did not know how they were functioning. 
The committee I joined was the Anti-Fascist Literature Committee. 
My job was to write leaflets against fascism, make speeches against 
fascism, and raise money for the underground movement. 

I was approached by a women named Harriett Silverman — dead 
now ; may her soul rest in peace — she was an international operative 
for the Soviet Union. I didn't know that until after she died. 

I was taken to Earl Browder in 1032 in order to check the fact that 
the money was being raised by a legitimate organization. Mr. Brow- 
der didn't do anything, shook hands and said, "I am glad you are go- 
ing to fight against fascism." That is all. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know at that time Avho Mr. Browder was? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes, I knew he was chairman of the Communist Party. 
At that time, I didn't care about labels. I used to say, ''If these 
people are against fascism, I am Avith them," just as. thereafter, I 
Avas, for instance, brought into a campaign to introduce legislation on 
social security, back in 1932, 1933, the fact that they Avere Com- 
munists didn't bother me. I felt that these things Avere right, and I 
AA'ould join them, and I think that is the Avay millions of AmeiMcaus 
are sucked into suj^porting Communist projects because the thing 
which is shown to them is that Avhich seems to be good, or 

Mr. KuNZTO. Even those peo]')le Avho are not Conununists, but Avho 
are sucked into and actually su])port Avhat the Conununists are after? 

Dr. DoDi). Yes; the Communist suiipoit seems to be large because 
people are sucked into things Avhich seem to be good in themselves. 



COMJVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1747 

They don't recognize that tlie Communist Party uses these slogans, 
these generalizations, in order to break down their resistance, and 
ultimately they are tied in with the Communist movement. 

Some were against discrimination. We are against repression, 
against war, against fascism, and the Communist Party takes our 
best instincts and uses them against us by twisting us into a program 
which they want us to follow. 

Take, for instance, the whole question of antifascism. The Com- 
munist Party in tliis country set itself up as the one organization that 
was fighting fascism. Very few other organizations gave them a 
battle for that, and so the Americans got to feeling, "These are the 
anti-Fascists." 

We only learn now, after reading the documents captured by the 
American soldiers in Germany, that throughout the time the Com- 
munists were calling themselves "anti-Fascists," they were working 
with the German high brass while Hitler was in power. They were 
meeting to decide on the diA'ision of Europe. When Molotov said the 
Soviet-Nazi pact was written in blood, he didn't mean the blood of 
the Soviet Union, but he meant in the blood of the Polish people, 
of the Czechoslovakia!! people. 

I didn't know then what I ki!ow !ioav, for ii!stance. In 1935, 1 stood 
on the platfor!n at Hu!!ter College; I was an instructor then. 

Mr. ScHERER. What college? 

Dr. DoDD. Hunter- College. I was teaching at Plunter College 
from 1926 to 1938. In 1935, I stood up before the faculty, and the 
st!!de!!ts, and !!!ade a speech which I will i!ever forget. It was e!ititled, 
"Fascis!n Means War." I was going on the assumption that the 
Fascists aiid Co!!i!!ii!nists were two difFere!it things. I didi!'t know 
then what I know !!ow, that every drop of crude oil used by the 
Fascists in Italy to drop bombs on Abyssinia was sold to them by the 
Soviet U!!io!i. 

Well, they took the anti-Fascist slogan and made themselves the 
protagonists of antifascism. 

They did the sa!!ie tl!i!!g with the word "de!nocracy." It became 
very difficult to oppose the!T! becai!se they posed everything in terms 
of the word "democracy." That was during the Workl War II period. 

Now they are on a "Soviet peace propaganda" campaig!i. They say, 
"If you are agai!!st the Co!n!nunists, you are for war." That is abso- 
lutely untrue, because just as antifascism of the Comiiiunists led to 
fascism, so the whole peace progra!!i of the Soviet Union, if you are 
realistic about it, will inevitably lead to war. We have to have our 
owi! peace prograi!!. It has to be an A!nerican peace progra!n. 

Mr. KuNziG. You described to us, the!!, how you yourself beca!Tie 
a inember of the Co!n!!iunist Party. I would like to bring up one 
point. You mentioned a Gil Green. Is that the same Gil Green now 
a fugitive from justice after conviction uiider the S!!iith Act? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes. Mr. Kunzig, !nay I add one thing about becoming 
a Co!ni!iu!iist ? Oi!e doesn't become a Coniiiiunist overnight by get- 
ting a card. You beco!!ie a Com!nunist over a long period of time 
by acting with them little by little until you find yourself so en- 
i!iesl!ed that you have lost your other connections with society except 
that group which operates in secret and operates together aiid estab- 
lishes a co!nraderie which is a part of the fascination of the movement. 



1748 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. Clardt. Your getting out of the party is more or less a reversal 
of the process by which you go in. You come out slowly as you 
awaken to these things ? 

Dr. DoDD. It takes just as long a time to come out of the party as 
it does to get in. It is much more painful. Getting in, you are 
somewhat excited because you are going into something secret and 
active, but getting out is a disillusioning process because you have 
nothing else to hold onto. You have no other standard of belief. 
You have no other standard by which to judge all activities, you find 
yourself out in a world of nothingness. That is why it is difficult for 
people to pull out. They have lost contact with friends and families, 
and move only within a restricted circle. 

Pulling out, also, is painful because you are punished. The kind of 
punishment which the Communists mete out to the person trying to 
get out of the party is a terrific thing. There are hundreds of 
Americans who are in the Communist Party who would like to be 
out of it, but they are so entrapped they are afraid to get out. They 
are afraid of being anti-Communist and they remain in the party 
and shrivel up and become nothing. 

Mr. Walter. That I understand with uneducated people, but I 
can't understand it as it applies to people such as you or other profes- 
sional people. They have their professions and their ability to analyze 
facts, truths, and it would certainly seem to me that if it takes them 
a long while, they are wondering whether or not they want to get out 
or ought to get out. 

Dr. DoDD. Well, Congressman Walter, communism is a way of life. 
It is a whole philosophy of being. If you believe in communism, then 
everything you do, you do with this philosophy. If once you lose 
that philosophy, you have to rethink your every single act and every 
statement you make. Where shall you stand on this question if you 
don't have a barometer by which to live ? 

Unfortunately, unless one has a religious background and a tre- 
mendous devotion and understanding of American history and the 
American system of Government, one is left floundering because one 
doesn't know where to go. The Communists make it very hard for 
you to get out. 

First of all, they punish you. In 1946, when I tried to walk out of 
the Communist Party, Bill Norman, then secretary of the party in 
New York, said, "Dodd, nobody gets out of the party. We throw 
you out, but you don't get out by yourself." 

Then you are told that everyone who gets out will ultimately dis- 
integrate and become nothing but a stool pigeon. That is a hard word 
to live with. It is a hard word to live with. 

Mr, Walter. Now, just at that point — and I think that dramatizes 
exactly what I am talking about — you as an educated person know 
that this appellation applies to somebody who is talking about a 
political philosophy, an illegal act. You know you were doing what 
you were because of perfectly pure motives, so that when the threat 
is made to cliarge you w^ith being a stool pigeon, why wouldn't you 
just dismiss that from your mind because you know that it isn't true? 

Dr. DoDD. You see, the newspapers, magazine articles (the party 
has tremendous influence with them) continue to use these words 
about "ex-Communists." They will use the regular words which we 
apply to the underworld, question of "stool pigeon," "rats," the per- 
son who "sings," and so forth and so on. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1749 

It becomes an emotional thing, and not an intellectual process. In- 
tellectually, the reason I made the break was because I felt I was in 
the wrong pew, and I had to find the way out, and I received a great 
deal of help from some very wonderful Americans who were filled 
with the spirit of charity, but not every one has people available to 
extend the hand to them and say, "Look, come on over," and what we 
need to do is to extend the hancl of charity, to extend the hand of in- 
telligence to people entrapped in this situation and say to them, "Look, 
nothing is going to happen to you. If you did it out of good motives, 
out of generosity, come on out and take your place in society." We 
try to do that in New York City in the school system. 

We have said to the school teachers, '*If you were in the party and 
are out now, nothing will be said publicly." 

I am here to testify to this committee that as far as I know, no one 
in New York City has been hurt by the fact that he was in the party 
if he went to the superintendent and said, "I was a member. I am no 
longer." 

His or her name hasn't been mentioned publicly. The people who 
got notoriety are those who asked for it by refusing to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Walter. That is largely attributable to the fact that those 
people are subconsciously, at least, willing to participate in a con- 
spiracy to overthrow this Government? 

Dr. DoDD. I think that is the first thing that the Communist begins 
to accept, and you may ask, Congressman Walter, how does an in- 
telligent person accept that? 

Well, they divide your loyalty to the "country" from loyalty to 
the "people." They say, "We are the greatest Aniericans there are. 
We believe in supporting the people." 

Who are the people? They are for the class society — for the pro- 
letariat. They say, "The working class makes up 98 percent of the 
people. Therefore, we, in our desire to protect the people, are the 
greatest democrats that there are." 

But they forget- 

Mr. Walter. That is a small "d," of course ? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes ; they forget to tell you that as far as they are con- 
cerned, before they are through taking power, they will kill off large 
sections of the working class if it doesn't go along with their program. 

This is the thing which brought me back to my senses, the fact that 
they are ruthless, ruthless not only to people in different classes but 
ruthless to the workers themselves. 

For instance, they say they have nothing to do with the people who 
are in the bourgeoisie or the owners of industry. Therefore, that 
class is out. Then the professional people or the middle class, the 
newspaper men, the writers, the doctors, the lawyers, those people are 
looked upon as expendable also because they are regarded as an un- 
stable class. 

Then you come down to the proletariat, the working class, and those 
who don't go along with the Communist theory are also expendable, so 
you find it is a program for the selected few who will go along with 
the self-appointed Communist Party, and the Communist Party is a 
group of self-appointed people. 

35663—53 2 



1750 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, you were talking about the teachers of New 
York and the fact that nothing happened to those who assisted and 
worked with the school board and those who got out of the party. You 
talked about those who took the fifth amendment or refused to answer 
as the ones getting the notoriety. Do you have any observations, 
from your own experiences, knowing these people personally, on 
those who are today using the fifth amendment ? 

Dr. Dodd. The people I know, and I knew practically everyone in 
New York City who appeared before the various committees, I know 
of ]io one who has appeared and claimed the fifth amendment, in New 
York City, who was not a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. KuNziG. In other words, you are saying to us here this morning 
that every person that you saw take the fifth amendment in New York 
City and refused to answer, while protesting innocence, was to your 
knowledge a member of the Communist Party ? 

Dr. Dodd. I do so say. 

Mr. WaIvTer. Then that leads me to the conclusion that anybody 
who advises people to refuse to answer questions propounded by this 
committee is advising them very badly. 

Dr. Dodd. I am glad you made that observation. It is my opinion 
that those attorneys who advise their clients to take the fifth amend- 
ment are putting their clients into a noose. 

First of all, they are throwing upon them the obvious color of being 
guilty and, secondly, they are making it difficult for them to get 
out when the time comes. 

Practically all those people are invited to come to private hearings 
of the committees with their attorneys to discuss the matter with the 
committees. In good conscience, a person who is advising a client 
ought to only advise him to take the fifth amendment when answering 
will really incriminate him. 

Mr. Waltek. That is exactly the point. This committee never set 
out to put anj'^body into trouble, and there isn't a person who has 
come before this committee with his or her attorney who couldn't 
in an executive session, testify to the things that we feel would be of 
help to us without having any publicity attendant to that appearance, 
and it is only because their lawyers don't cooperate with a duly con- 
stituted committee of this Government that people get into trouble. 

Dr. Dodd, May I just say one thing about the whole question of 
people being called before the committees. The Communist Party 
advises everyone who receives a subpena from any Government agency, 
should it be a person who is connected with the party, a member of 
the party, or one who has worked with the party, to get in touch at 
once with his immediate superior in the party. Then he is advised as to 
which legal service to get. 

]Mr. ScHERER. Usually a Communist? 

Dr. Dodd. Or someone — no, in many cases, lawyers who have 
worked with the Communist Party. Lawyers are men out to make 
a living. 

Mr. Waeter. Maybe that accounts for the fact that the same lawyers 
appear for witnesses before this committee whether they come from 
California or Maine. 

Dr. Dodd. There are certain lawyers that the Communist move- 
ment will use. Many of them are not party members. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1751 

j\Ir. KuNziG. You knew these lawyers since you, too, are a lawyer; 
is tliat correct? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Are those lawyers paid by the Communist Party? 

Dr. DoDD. Many times these lawyers give their services for nothing 
in cases of this kind because they expect to get cases later on, from the 
trade-union movements, the party influences, or from various 
other 

Mr. AValter. We have been informed that most of these lawyers 
charge $1,500 apiece. I don't know whether to tell those people they 
have taken money under false pretense. 

Dr. DoDD. I doubt tliat. I don't believe it. One thing about the 
Communists, they don't squander money that way. They squander 
money only where it is going to tell. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Dr. Dodd, you mentioned how difficult it was to get 
out of the party and how you are hounded and harassed. Have you 
yourself had any personal experience along that line? Were you 
followed, for example? 

Dr. DoDD. It took me 5 years to get out of the Communist Party 
completely, and I only got out of the Comminiist Party completely, 
emotionally, when I found my way back to my own church. 

During that time, I would rather not talk about it. My life was 
one of misery. I was hounded, publicized, and given the treatment 
that everybody gets who becomes a deserter from their cause. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you followed ? 

Dr. DoDD. I was followed; my windows were broken; I had my 
clients taken away. They tried to make it impossible for me to make 
a living. They did everything they possibly could to ■ 

Mr. ScHERER. You mean they engaged in blacklisting? 

Mr. Dodd, Well, the party itself — I don't know whether the party 
at the top echelon does it, but the party consists of people and the one 
end are a group of crackpots. The Comnumist Party is the only party 
I know that knows how to use crackpots. It has many intelligent 
people, but it has the lunatic fringe. The lunatic fringe believes 
everything they say, and if they say that Bella Dodd has become a 
Fascist, as they said in their papers, the lunatic fringe then takes 
upon itself to take direct action. 

Mr. ScHERER. You are talking about newspapers; you mean the 
Daily W^orker, the Communist papers ? 

Dr. Dodd. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuxziG. Dr. Dodd, when you broke with the party, you obvi- 
ously had many friends, close friends, that you have known over the 
years. Did they give you an opportunity to talk to them ; did they 
ask you why you changed, why your viewpoint was different? I 
should think they would. 

Dr. Dodd. That is one of the real tragedies that I think Americans 
need to note. I worked with my union for a period of 9 years. I 
counted every one in the union my f rien.d. I gave all my time to the 
union, all my energies to the union. Hundreds of people visited my 
home and wliose homes I visited. 

Tlie day tlie Communist Party expelled me, that was the day which 
I was cut off from my union and cut off from all associations; even 
close ijersonal friends. They refused, then, to have anvthing to do 
with me. 



1752 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

I found that the union that I had actually built stopped sending its 
newspaper to me, dropped me from its list of past members, I have 
never had an invitation since. I never talked to the people whom I 
had trained in union work, and all the younger people I had trained 
for union positions. That was the end. 

If the party says that this person is good, he is good ; if the party 
says this person is bad, he is bad, regardless of your own intelligence. 
The thing which struck me was that, if the Communist movement 
can do that to human beings, that kind of movement is extremely dan- 
gerous. It is a movement which uses mass hysteria to control peoj)le's 
minds. It is a movement which we might well be worried about. 

Mr. Clardy. It "was that which caused so much difficulty, I take it, 
when the Hitler-Stalin pact was entered into? They had them all in 
one direction, and overnight, they had to reverse their field entirely; 
isn't that true ? 

Dr. DoDD. Well, the Communist Party is very successful at doing 
that, however. It takes a little time, but not too long. 

Take, for instance the question — we used to have the American 

League Against War and Fascism. We were against war and fascism. 

We were almost a superpacifist group. We picketed the White House 

for peace. 

Then came the invasion of the Soviet Union. Overnight, we had to 

change the name for — the league's name 

Mr. SciTERER. Could I interrupt because there is some future testi- 
mony. When was that that you picketed the White House? 
Dr. DoDD. I picketed the White House in 1940. 
Mr. SciiERER. In 1940 ? 
Dr. DoDD. Yes. 

Mr. SciiERER, Could you fix that month ; that is very important at 
this point. Doctor. 

Dr. DoDD. It was either in the late spring or early summer. 
Mr. ScHERER. That is all. 
Dr. DoDD. It was in 1940. I may be in error. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is close enough for my purposes; I just wanted 
to pinpoint the time that you picketed the White House. 

Mr. KuNZiG. The invasion, as we all know, of Russia by Germany, 
was in June of 1941, and that was the time, I believe, not necessarily 
when you were there, but that was the time when the pickets marching 
around the White House were called home within 24 hours ? 

Dr. DoDD. I was chairman of a trade-union committee for peace. I 
led a lot of women down there, and we picketed the White House for 
peace. 

Then suddenly we were told we had to be for war. It took us at 
least 2 months to wash out the old idea and put in the new one. 

Mr. Kdnzig. Dr. Dodd, wliile you were in New York, while you were 
a member of the New York State Committee of the Communist Party, 
did you know an individual by the name of J. Peters — and, before you 
answer, I would like to say something on the record about J. Peters. 
J. Peters, as you know, was the author of the instruction book on es- 
pionage. He has been established as head of the Soviet-controlled 
espionage organization which operated in America. Did T'^ou know 
J. Peters ? If so, how did you know him ? 

Dr. Dodd. Well, that is an interesting question, because I knew 
the J. Peters manual before ; I had read it. It had been given to me 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1753 

to read and study, and I knew a man by the name of Steve Miller, but 
Steve Miller was an insignificant little fellow who used to help with 
mimeographing at party headquarters. He was attached to the New 
York County committee. He was assigned from time to time to teach 
communism to some of the teachers, kind of take individual teachers 
who were rising in the party movement and give them special instruc- 
tions. I thought he was just an insignificant little fellow until one 
day the authorities picked him up and I discovered he was J. Peters. 
He was engaged in using teachers throughout the United States for 
maildrop purposes, for revoluntionary mail that was going back and 
forth from the Soviet Union into the United States. 

They would approach a pretty innocent teacher who came close to 
the movement and say, "Would you mind if a letter comes to your 
address?" 

Some mail would come to someone in Columbus or Cleveland or in 
California or in my section of New York, and the person would have 
no more relationship to that mail than the man in the moon. 

That mail would be mail which the party was getting from overseas. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, I would like to turn to and delve deeper into 
your work in teachers' unions. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Kunzig, just before we get into that, could we 
have a 5-minute recess? 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Mr. ScHERER. Proceed. 

Mr. Kunzig. We are ready to begin, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. Dodd, I would like to turn now to putting a little more emphasis 
on your activities with teachers, professors, and the Teachers' Union. 
Could you explain how the Commm lists got control of the Teachers' 
Union ; how that was worked ? 

Dr. boDD. Now, first let me make clear, the American Federation 
of Teachers, an A. F. of L. union, is not a Communist organization. In 
many cities, many towns and localities, you will have teachers' unions 
which are not Communist. In some cities and towns they will have 
no Communists in the community. I don't want to in any way detract 
from the efficacy and work the teachers' unions do throughout the 
United States. 

My association with the teachers' unions were largely with the 
teachers' unions of New York and with some of the people who 
became officers of the American Federation of Teachers during the 
time that I was active. 

I came to the Teachers' Union just naturally since I was interested 
in the conditions of work in various colleges and universities around 
New York. It was natural that I should help organize the teachers, 
instructors, professors — largely the instructors — tutors, and lower 
categories into an association for improving their conditions. 

One thing we Americans must never overlook is that, where there 
are problems, it is our duty to try to better conditions, to make condi- 
tions worth while and consonant with the American way of life. 

I had organized the instructors and tutors at Hunter College for the 
purpose of getting tenure for those people. I was interested in getting 
permanent tenure for the people in the City College. You could be 
fired at will. The public-school teachers didn't have tenure, and so I 
had made it my duty to organize them for the purpose of getting 
tenure. I achieved that purpose. I was able to get a bill passed in the 



1754 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

State legislature, through some of the members that I knew in the 
State legislature on the education committee. 

As soon as that bill was passed, the Communists became very 
friendly with me and their next question was, "Why don't we take 
this organization into a union,'' and pretty soon they said, "Of course, 
the labor movement would help the teachers get better conditions''; 
and, being prolabor, I said, "Xo reason why we shouldn't join the 
Teachers' Union.*' 

The Teachers' Union had existed in New York City, organized as a 
protest against what happened in the First World War. We joined 
that organization, but as soon as 1 got into that organization I 
recognized that the Communists were struggling with the non-Com- 
munists in a real fight for control. The non-Communists were not 
very bright about the struggle, and the Communists took over the 
entire situation. 

When I came into the Teachers' Union, because I had that bill 
passed on tenure, they asked me to become a legislative representative 
of the Teachers' Union temporarily. 

Well, ni}' temporary stay there developed into a permanent stay 
because I was elected every year. I was elected because the Communists 
supported me. The Communists within the Teachers' Union operate 
the way they operate in every other organization, every other union. 

First, they got rid of all those who were in opposition to Communists. 

Mr. KuNziG. How did they get rid of them ? 

Mr. DoDD. Well, they got rid of them by organization, and they got 
rid of them also by using complete— you see, the first struggle w^as 
between the Communists — the Lovestoneites, Trotskyists, and the 
Stalinists. The splinter groups within the Communist movement 
recognized what the Communists were. 

First they organized against them, and in many cases they used 
completely innocent people who were not at all geared to understand 
this struggle that went on in the left-wing movement. 

By bringing in many people who were not at all geared to left-wing 
ideology, they organized and got rid of the people in the splinter 
groups. However, the splinter groups made the mistake of becoming 
political and not taking up the issues of the people. The Communists 
would actually take a special issue like better wages for the substitute 
teachers and they would make tliemselves the protagonist for the 
group of underprivileged people. In that w^ay they wiped out some 
of tlie splinter groups. 

Once they took control, it was very hard for them to be dislodged 
because they would control the executive board, the delegate assembly., 
they AYOuld control all the committees and once you take control of a 
structui'e of an organization, it is hard to be pushed out. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did they then make the Teachers' Union work a basi& 
for their own purposes and functions and only incidentally for the- 
good of teachers? 

Dr. DoDD. One of the things you must understand about Marxism' 
and Leninism and I think the trade-union people do understand this — 
they didn't in the 1930's, but they do now — 

Lenin once said : 

We are not interestPd in unions as reforming organizations, we are interested! 
in unions as politicalizing institutions. 



COMMUXIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1755 

In other ^YO^ds, they regarded with contempt unions engaged in 
what is called "economism,'' that is, improving the economic conditions. 
It is only important if it can be politicalized. The Teachers' Union 
of New York City, unfortunately, came to be used as a real political 
Aveapon by the party, because the Teachers' Union was one of the few 
unions over which they had some control in the A. F, of L. They used 
it on every occasion in the State Federation and the National Federa- 
tion of Labor. 

They used us to get political resolution j^assed. For instance, I re- 
member in 1938, the party was very much interested in unity between 
the CIO and the A. F. of L. Certainly that was a good slogan. When 
they came to me and said, '"Will you fight for unity between the CIO 
and the A. F. of L.," I said, "Yes." 

They said, "Would you introduce a resolution on that subject in the 
Central Trades and Labor Council?" 

I said, "Yes." 

There were other groups in the council other than teachers, but the 
teachers were compelled by the party to introduce the resolution on 
unity and call a conference of all unions for miity between the CIO 
and the A. F. of L. 

As a result of that conference, we were expelled from the labor 
council — kicked out of the State Federation of Labor because we had 
acted on the directions of the party. 

As a result of tliat, we developed many problems within the Ameri- 
can Federation of Teachers. Finally, on the question of peace, we 
were going along, the New York locals, the New York Teachers' 
Union, the WPA local, plus some of the Pennsylvania and Philadel- 
phia and New Jersey locals were going along on the party's fight for 
peace. We opposed aid to England and France, and a struggle de- 
veloped in the American Federation of Teachers between the pro- 
Communists and the anti-Communists. 

As a result of that, we were expelled from the American Federation 
of Teachers because we had fought so strongly for the peace programs 
that the party insisted upon. 

In other words, they used our union not to help the members to get 
better conditions, but they used it largely as a political wedge for the 
purpose of bringing forth political ideas. 

Mr. W^ALTER. Dr. Dodd, do I understand you to mean that the 
Communists are not interested in the economic conditions of the 
workers ? 

Dr. DoDD. They are interested in that insofar as they can use the 
slogans to attract thousands of people and bring thern under their 
influence. 

Mr. Walter. In other words, their sole interest is political? 

Dr. DoDD. Their main interest is political. Actually, if they have 
to cut down on the benefits of the workers if a political problem is 
paramount, they will cut down on the economic interests of the 
Avorkers. 

For instance, you take the question of the Negro people. During 
the World War, the Communists, since we were fighting with Russia, 
since we were so much concerned about winning that war and protect- 
ing the Soviet Union particularly, that we were not interested, for 
instance, in improving the conditions of the Negro people in the 
Armed Forces or the Negro people in the trade unions. It was a 



1756 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

"natural" at that particular time during the war when there was a 
manpower shortage for the party to bring forth slogans to improve 
the conditions of the Negro people in the industries, in the trade 
unions, and in the Armed Forces, but the Communist Party advised, 
as a matter of fact, it penalized certain people for bringing forth those 
slogans. They said that those slogans were not to be brought forth in 
the midst of a political struggle. 

Mr. ScHERER. They were interested in the problems of minority' 
groups generally in order to attract them to the Communist cause? 

Dr. DoDD. There is no more depressing problem than the way the 
party uses the minority groups for the purpose of creating chaos and 
division among the people, creating fear and hatred among them- 
selves in order that the many Communist organizations may promote 
the things in which they are interested. 

Mr. ScHERER. At one time, the Communist Party was opposed to 
anti-Semitism, is that right? 

Dr. DoDD. The Communist Party has always claimed it is against 
anti-Semitism, but at one time, it will support the establishment of an 
Israeli state and another time be against it. It depends on which 
way the Soviet policy is going whether it is for the establishment of 
the Israeli Government. 

Mr. ScHERER. Today the Communist Party is violently anti- 
Semitic, isn't it? 

Dr. DoDD. Let me just put it this way. Congressman Scherer, to be 
fair, publicly they will say they are against it, but when the question 
arose, when the 10 or 12 doctors were arrested — what happened in 
the Daily Worker, the unit which gives the line out to the party peo- 
ple — the Daily Worker began using the same kind of lies which Fascist 
minded people might be using against the Jewish people. They kept 
saying, "Of course, there are Jews down in Wall Street, and there- 
fore the doctors in the Soviet Union must be the same type of charac- 
ters as those people." 

In other words, they mouthed the same kind of anti-Semitism which 
we hear from people who are a real menace. 

Mr. Scherer. The Kremlin today is taking the position against the 
Jews because it wants to court the favor of the Arabs, doesn't it ? The 
Russians are interested, perhaps, in Arabian oil? 

Dr. DoDD. There is no doubt in my mind that the Communist Party 
in America is trying to hold onto its slogan of being against anti- 
Semitism because it recognizes that Americans basically are against 
discrimination, but they will follow whatever line the Kremlin gives 
them. 

If the Kremlin is interested in wooing the Arabs, they will follow 
that line, but they will confuse it sufficiently so that people in America 
don't know where they stand. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, just as a matter of interest, didn't the Daily 
Worker, after the doctors were set free, say, "This shows how fair 
justice is," just a few weeks after they denounced the same doctors? 
• Dr. DoDD. No doubt about that. 

Mr. KuNziG. About how many Communist teachers would you say, 
within your knowledge, are there in the United States? 

Dr. DoDD. I have no knowledge now, but at the time I had knowl- 
edge, I would say conservatively, we had about 1,500 members of the 
Communist Party. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1757 

Mr. KuNziG. Is it possible for you to say, at least roughly, how many 
mioht have been in the State of Ohio? 

Dr. DoDD. It is impossible for me to say how many in the State of 
Ohio. I only knew of 2 or 3 people in the State of Ohio and the 
reason is that information of that kind is never made available to any- 
one. It was decentralized and kept in the hands of the professional 
j)eople themselves. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you suggesting that professional people and 
teachers are handled in a special way ? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes, I said in the very beginning 

Mr. KuNziG. Could you explain that for us ? 

Dr. DoDD. The party is very zealous in protecting the names of 
people in the professional groups, in the civil service, in government, 
in the State or National legislatures. They will say people are friends 
of the party, but they will not say that they are members of the 
party, and their cards, if there are cards in that locality, will be held 
by the party at the head of the group and not given to the secretary of 
the party. 

Mr. KuNziG. If there was a professor in a college anywhere, in Los 
Angeles, Philadelphia, Columbus, Ohio, for example, his Communist 
Party membership and his participation in Communist activities 
w^ould be kept on a highly secret level ? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes, it would. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you know that of your own knowledge, from 
your own experience in that party ? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. What instructions, would you say, Dr. Dodd, would 
the party give him, this mythical Communist teacher or professor with 
regard to his own activities? 

Dr. DoDD. If thej regarded him as an important person, they would 
tell him not to admit that he is a Communist Party member, and that 
he is to get instructions. Sometimes he met with a unit of 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 
or 7 people; sometimes not with a unit, but with one person from the 
party headquarters who would bring him literature, give him instruc- 
tions. Any time he had problems, he would go to that person and 
pay his dues to that person. 

Mr. KuNziG. How was he supposed to act with regard to outside 
organizations, with special reference to his membership in different 
groups ? 

Dr. DoDD. Communism is like a religion. President Eisenhower 
said that the other day, but it is a religion without a God. If you 
believe strongly in communism, it is your duty to bring it into every 
phase of your life. 

If you are a member of the American Association of University Pro- 
fessors, if you are a member of the association of your specialty, such 
as a member of the mathematical association, it is your duty to bring 
the party line into those organizations. 

If you are a member of a fraternity, you are supposed to bring it into 
the fraternity, into any group where there is the privilege of discus- 
sion. If you are a teacher, you are supposed to live by the principles of 
Marxism and Leninism. You are not supposed, of course, to get your- 
self in trouble. The party warns you not to get your head knocked off ; 
it warns you to stay within security and remain on your job. 



1758 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Would yon explain to us perhaps in a little bit more 
detail, so that it is perfectly clear what you mean exactly by "party 
line" and what you mean particularly when you talk about party 
discipline. 

Dr. DoDD. Well, the party line, of course, is a rough translation of 
fhe tactics of the party. 

You know there is a strategy of the party and tactics of the party. 
The strategy of the party is world revolution. In a country like the 
United States which is in preparation, a non-Communist country, this 
country is being prepared for revolution. The revolution may not be 
a bloody one, it may be like the one they had in Czechoslovakia ^^■here 
they opened the doors to the Soviet Union. A party line is the tactic 
of the party. The tactic is the program that changes day by day that 
the party makes in order to advance its strategy or its ultimate 
objective. 

The tactics may mean today we may be friendly with the CIO. 
Tomorrow we may be fighting the CIO. Today we may be for peace, 
tomorrow we may be for war. That is, the party line shifts constantly. 

Today we may support coalition with the Democratic Party, tomor- 
row, a party of our own. 

Those are the tactical changes and tliey change as they feel the ])ulse 
of tlie country. They are very astute about taking the pulse of the 
people of this Nation and depending on what the pulse tells them, they 
form their party line. Their line is the tactic which is followed and 
the tactic is to promote the strategy. 

It is also in line with the ultimate objective of taking this country 
or any other country into revolution or into the world Communist fold, 

Mr. Walter. May I interrupt you at this point. Doctor? Isn't it 
a fact that since the expulsion of the Trotskyists in 1928 or 1929, the 
tactics have been directed from Eussia so that whatever the tactics are 
in this country, they get the directions from Russia? 

Dr. DoDD. There is no doubt, at first, the Third International, the 
Comintern, which w^as in existence at that time, laid down the policy 
for all the world Communist Parties. For instance, the seventh world 
congress of the Comintern laid down the policy of the united front, 
laying down the anti-Fascist, united-front tactic of fighting the 
Fascists. 

Then when the Soviet-Nazi pact was formed, we had to have a new 
line of approach which was, everything which would strengthen the 
Soviet Union was good for the working class all over the world — even 
unity with the Nazis. 

Of course, when the Soviet Union was attacked by the Nazis, there 
Avas the slogan of saving democracy. Then the United States, France, 
England, China, and the Soviet Union became the great democracies. 

When in 1945, the policy in Russia was changed — at that time the 
Comintern had been abolished as a concession, I think, to the United 
States — because tlie United States said. "All right, we will have co- 
existence, but we don't want any Comintern directing the Commu- 
nist Party in the ITnited States." Then in 1945, the Soviet Union 
changed its line, which was not announced to the entire world, but came 
in the form of the Duclos letter to the Communist Party of the United 
States. No tactics for United States Communists from 1929 on were 
made by the Communist Party of the United States. 



COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1759 

That doesn't mean tliat tlie average Connnnnist teacher was aware 
'of that. We were also told that the party here was an indigenous 
radical party to support and promote the welfare of the American 
people. Most of us believed that. I want to get that on the record in 
all fairness. 

People Avho were sucked into this moveinent, most of us believed it, 
until we stopped and began thinking contrary to the collective think- 
ing that the Communist Party imposed on us. 

Mr. Clardy. The Duclos letter was obviously started on its journey 
from Russia and brought the message tliat the line had been changed 
•and you should move in the opposite direction, but it came initially 
via France from Russia. 

Dr. DoDD. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, you have been talking about party line. 
'Gould you go into a little more detail on discipline and how it oper- 
:ates? 

Dr. Dodd. Discipline in the Communist Party is very strict. It is 
a strange kind of thing. You wonder why many Americans who are 
so accustomed to liberty would accede to the discipline. 

Actually, if we believe a thing to be right, we want discipline. So, 
tfor instance, many Communists are held in line by the disciplinary 
-actions of the Communist Party. Disciplinary action means that you 
are called before a board. 

You see, the Communist movement has within itself its own police 
'System, its own security committees. xVs a matter of fact, it has an 
■equivalent of all the protective agencies which the Government has. 
It has its oMn security system, its own detectives, its own spy ap- 
paratus to see that the Communist members in key positions are not 
•double crossing the party. 

Mr. KuxziG. Were you ever called before one of tl;ose control com- 
missions ? 

Dr. Dodd. Well, in 1945 and 19-18, I was called before three control 
'Commissions. 

Mr. KuNziG. What happened? I think we would all be interested 
in knowing what happened at a meeting before a control commission. 

Dr. Dodd. First of all, they have information on what you have been 
doing. 

Mr. Clardy. You mean they had informers to tell them what you 
liad been doing? 

Mr. ScHERER. Stool pigeons? 

Dr. Dodd. For instance, my secretary who happened to be a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party, my secretary in my law office— my office 
unfortunately came to be a place where people who were unhappy in 
the pai'ty began to drop in and say they were unhappy. 

Mr. KuxzTG. Was that because you were becoming unhappy? 

Dr. Dodd. Well, I wasn't austere. I had a humanist approach to 
life. 

What happened was that I would pat them on the back and tell 
them not to be unhappy about their work. I would just kind of 
cheer them on. I told them that many problems had arisen, just to 
sit still and wait, things might clear themselves up, but what hap- 
pened was that my secretary liad letters — any letters I had writtpii 
to anybody — she would take letters out of mv files. 



1760 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

She had given testimony to the party and I was charged with some 
of the things which I was supposed to have said in my office. 

At that time I was trying to pull out of the party. I recognized 
I was in the wrong pew. I recognized that there was danger but I 
didn't know how to get out. In my struggle to get out, I said certain 
things which were public. 

Of course, certain people stayed at my home and I remember there 
was one old seaman who stayed at my home because he had no place 
to go, he was ill between trips and he had been called down to the 
waterfront section. They had taken testimony from him on me. He 
came back and said he didn't know why they were writing everything 
he said down. 

All this testimony was used on the three occasions. All three 
times, I said, "Look, all I want to do is to practice law. Leave me 
alone. I will be a member of the committee until you select someone 
else to take my place." 

Mr. KuNziG. Would they threaten you at these hearings? 

Dr. DoDD. No, no, the gentlemen in charge of those committees — 
they might others, but they didn't threaten me. I have known of 
others like Johnny Lautner, who were threatened, but I was not. All 
they did was ask pertinent questions. I wondered where they got the 
information. For instance, I made a speech at a branch meeting in 
1947 about the establishment of the Cominform. That was estab- 
lished as a substitute for the Comintern, for the countries of Europe, 
and I had made a speech in which I had made a remark about it, and 
that remark had been taken to headquarters and repeated. I was 
charged with it. 

They didn't say anything. They just asked me questions, and then 
they let me go, but I knew then that something was in the works. 

Mr. Clardt. Then, when the Communist Party or its members 
begin screaming about the method that this or other committees may 
use in having hearings, they are a little hypocritical ; aren't they ? 

Dr. DoDD. Oh, you gentlemen of the congressional committees 
don't begin to approach the tactics which they have in keeping their 
organization from being attacked by those who infiltrate it. 

Mr. Clardt. Are they careful to respect the thing we call academic 
freedom ? 

Dr. DoDD. There is only one academic freedom to them, that is 
loyalty to the Communist Party. There is no room for a difference 
of opinion. 

Mr. Clardt. You agree or else ? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes. 

Mr. KuNZTG. For a moment, getting away from teachers, is it 
your opinion from your own personal experience that hearings by leg- 
islative committees such as this one or such as the Ohio Committee 
hurt the Communist movement? 

Dr. DoDD. There is no doubt in my mind that if we can get before 
the public for thinking Americans the pattern of how this thing 
happens we are going to help to eradicate this danger from the Amer- 
ican scene. 

Mr. ScHERER. You are giving us that pattern very ably this morn- 
ing, Doctor, I am sure. 

Dr. DoDD. I think that is all I can do. I am not here to hurt any- 
one. I am not here to hound anyone. I am here to help the American 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1761 

people understand how this thing works. '\^nien they are approached 
to sign a petition or to join a committee, they must ask themselves not 
only, "Is this immediately good, but in whose interest is this being done 
and by whom?" 

Mr. KuNZiG. From your own experience and from practical exam- 
ples, could you explain how hearings by the House Committee on Un- 
American Activities, for example, how they have hurt the Communist 
cavise and have aided Communists to perhaps leave the party ? 

Dr. DoDD. Well, first of all, of course, I don't think anyone in 
America — I am certain no one in our Congress would be opposed to a 
man who got up and said, "Look, I am a Communist. This is what I 
believe." 

No matter how unpopular his beliefs are, I am certain that you 
would protect his right to believe them. The thing which has made 
this so dangerous is that a man gets up and says, "I am a Democrat," 
or "I am a Republican. I believe in the thing called Americanism," 
and then he proceeds to put in the party line. 

A country has a right to defend itself, and that is exactly what I 
think these committees are doing. I think they are exposing the way 
the pattern works and also taking the leading actors in the drama 
and making it impossible for them to work any further. It doesn't 
mean you are going to work on everybody in the conspiracy, but you 
uumobilize certain people. 

Mr. ScHERER. We immobilize certain Communist-front organiza- 
tions by designating them as such. Then contributions from well- 
meaning people stop. 

Dr. DoDD. I think that is true also. 

Mr. KuNziG. Communists fight back against legislative committees 
because the committees really hurt them ? 

Dr. DoDD. There is no doubt about that. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do they fight back by methods of fear, and if so, will 
you explain how that is done ? 

Dr. DoDD. Anyone who opposes the Communist line, anyone who is 
going to hurt them in any way, is bound to get the full impact of the 
attacks of the Communists plus all of their friends. 

The attack is always in high-sounding words. The congressional 
committees of the United States Government become the agents of 
Fascists, and therefore, everyone is asked to organize against the 
"agents of fascism." 

Mr. KuNziG. You mean that is what the Communists say ? 

Dr. DoDD. That is what the Communists say. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is "mild," Doctor, anyone who opposes them is 
called a Fascist or an America Firster. 

Dr. DoDD. Or it becomes a McCarranite, or a McCarthyite. 

Let me assure you that these are just general smear words. They 
are emotional words. They are words which have no definition, and 
first you create a sense of fear and hatred and then you apply this 
word to everyone against you. 

The Communist movement is a highly centralized and highly or- 
ganized movement. One of the reasons why they have had such as- 
tounding success in countries even like the United States — J. Edgar 
Hoover says there are 25,000. William Z. Foster, head of the party, 
says there are 70,000. Whether it is 25,000 or 70,000, that is a small 
number in comparison with 160 million Americans. Twenty thou- 



1762 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

sand Communists highly organized and placed in key positions, can 
create a tremendous amount of difficulty. 

In smearing a committee such as your committee, what is done is 
this : First, you have to get the Communist Party in opposition. Then 
every trade union where there are Communists is immediately started 
to put out the line that if the attack is against the Communists, the 
next attack will be against labor. They get the trade unions to pass 
resolutions against anything that is against Communists. Then, they 
go into women's organizations and minority group organizations, 
the Negro people, the Jewish people, the foreign-born people, and stir 
them up. They charge that these committees are intended to annihi- 
late them, and, therefore, they had better pass the resolution against 
investigations. 

The Communists do have representation in practically every key 
area in America, in scientific societies, in intellectual circles, women's 
clubs, trade unions, and these organizations are all then made to adopt 
the resolutions against them. 

How do they promote this resolution? First, they will get some- 
one to make a statement. They get a Communist not known as a 
Communist. Take a person, let say a person wdio is outstanding in 
religious fields or educational fields. He will write 

]\[r. KuNziG. You mean a Communist outstanding in a religious 
field? 

Dr. DoDD. Might be. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see, 

Mr. Clardy. But you say one not known as a Communist ? 

Dr. DoDD. An outstanding professor not known as a Comnuniist. 
He and 2 or 3 othere will then get a telegram saying, "We are opposed 
to the investigation of this committee. It promotes the interest of the 
McCarthyites, and so on and so forth." 

Then, that telegram is sent to, let's say, a thousand other people. 
They have lists. I have had them myself, lists of ministers, doctors, 
lawyers, and others. 

Mr. ScHERER. You mean the lists are in the party headquarters ? 

Dr. DoDD. Lists are in party headquarters and in some of the front 
committees, which they have established like the American Committee 
for Democracy and Intellectual Freedom, run by a secretary who is 
a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you talking about a list of Communists or non- 
Commvniists ? 

Dr. DoDD. There will be a list of both, non-Communists and Com- 
munists, predominantly non-Communists, but people who they can 
use from time to time to respond to various causes. 

Mr. Clakdy. People, you mean, who are occupying positions of 
some importance so that their ideas will carry weight? 

Dr. DoDD. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Give us such names. 

Dr. Dodo. The American Committee for Democracy and Intellectual 
Freedom liad its headcjuarters in New York City. Its secretary 
was a young man by the name of Moe Finklestein. He was a very 
outstanding scholar, a history teacher. He was the secretary of this- 
connnittee. He had lists of all the college professors, doctors, lawyers^, 
and what not, who belonged to his committee. Most of them were 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1763 

not Communists, but what lie would do was to get 2 or 3 Communist 
Party people to draft a telegram or draft a letter and say, "Will you 
join with me in sending the following message to the President of the 
United States?'' Or a letter to the Congress, or to the regents of the 
State Board of Education of New York. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did they use this procedure you are describing when 
they wanted to smear somebody in public life, or as you said before, 
get rid of people in the Teachers" Union who were opposed to the 
Connnunist program ? 

Dr. DoDxi. They would use it. 

Mr. ScHERER. That same tactic ? 

Dr. DoDD. They would use the tactic both as a method of creating 
public opinion for something that they wanted and creating public 
opinion violently against either individuals or a line. 

Mr. Walter. Now, perhaps what you say, what you have just testi- 
fied to offers an explanation for the action taken by the CIO at its 
national convention where it adopted the resolution : 

The repeal of the McCarran-Walter Act on the grounds that it was an anti- 
Catholic, and anti-Semitic action. 

At hearings held in Washington last week on other legislation, it 
was the privilege of the Committee on Immigration to hear the testi- 
mony of Monsignor Swanstrom, a very prominent Catholic clergy- 
man. He was asked the question whether or not the immigration law 
was anti-Catholic and he said it was certainly not, and he had never 
even heard the charge made that it was. 

The following day. Congressman Javits, a Republican from New 
York, testifying on behalf of all the Jewish organizations on this 
same measure was asked the question of wherein is this legislation 
anti-Semitic and he said, "In no respect whatsoever." 

In view of the fact that these two very prominent men in the 
Catholic and Jewish religions have testified that this law is not anti- 
Catholic or anti-Semitic, I am wondering why and how the CIO 
adopted a resolution in which the charge was made that it was. 

Perhaps you have today given us the explanation. 

Dr. DoDD. I can't speak for the CIO. I don't know why they 
adopted it, but I certainly agree with both the statements you have 
had on the Walter-McCarran Act. 

Mr. SciiERER. We interrupted you, and I started it, when you were 
beginning to tell us the mechanics of getting out these telegrams, these 
petitions and resolutions, either to promote a cause or to smear an 
individual or a cause. 

Dr. DoDD. That is right. 

Mr. ScHERER. You got as far as saying that a group of Communists 
or non-Communists would get together and initiate a telegram or a 
resolution. 

Now, would you continue from there, because it is important. 

Dr. DoDD. The secretary of the committee would send out the letter 
or the telegram or resolution to a thousand people, fifteen hundred, 
two thousand, and say, "Wire collect whether we may use vonr namft 
on tlie list." 

Mr. KuNziG. Many of these were perfectly good citizens? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes, and the telegrams would be so framed that any 
intelligent person might go along with it. The telegram would be 



-to-' 



1764 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

SO framed that it would be semiambiguous, but when the newspaper 
story was written, it would be written by the secretary of the commit- 
tee. He would then say, "Five thousand people signed a letter pro- 
testing thus and thus," and at that time the story would be angled 
though the telegram itself might be mild. The story would be given 
a greater slant in the direction they wanted it to go. 

Mr. ScHERER. And these people who were called upon to sign this 
telegram or go along with this resolution were usually members of the 
various Communist-front organizations? 

Dr. DoDD. Some of them were, some of them were just people in 
key positions who had in the past done something which was liberal 
or which they regard as liberal or progressive. 

Mr. Clardy. Would you say the series of lists were "sucker lists" 
that they could count on to respond when the button was pressed at 
Communist headquarters? 

Dr. DoDD. Practically all the organizations through which the party 
works, whether a political action committee or a committee for cul- 
tural freedom — I don't mean to imply the last one, but there were 
committees of that kind — practically all of these committees which 
were operated by some one Communist Party member on them had 
lists of people to whom they could appeal with telegrams of one kind 
or another. 

There were different lists for different purposes. 

Mr, Clardy. People they felt they could rely on to respond? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes. 

Mr. Walter. Was Franz Boas — was he a Communist ? 

Dr. DoDD. He was not a member, but Moe Finklestein was the secre- 
tary of the committee. 

Mr. Walter. He was running the show ? 

Dr. DoDD. Dr. Boas was a man of deep convictions about discrimi- 
nation and things of that kind, but the work of the party was done by 
the people who were doers on the committee. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Can you name some people who might be perfectly 
decent people who were on these "sucker" lists and who would 
respond ? 

Dr. DoDD. You probably know those names better than I do. They 
are the leading intellectuals of America, leading people of America. 
Christian Gauss, of Princeton University, was on that list. People 
like Einstein were on that list. 

It is the list of the leading intellectuals in America who would be 
sent these telegrams. Sometimes they responded, sometimes they 
didn't. 

Mr. Walter. I remember on one occasion there was an automobile 
accident in Pittsburgh, and the local police came out with a lot of 
names which this committee went over and never made public, but 
among them were 60 or 70 of the most prominent clergymen in western 
Pennsylvania, priests, rabbis, and everybody else on the "sucker" list. 

Dr. DoDD. Sometimes they would send telegrams which said, "If 
we don't hear from you, we will add your name to the list." 

Sometimes they got protests because they acted too fast. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, Dr. Dodd, you talk about these names and how 
they were gotten together. Were some of them ever used without the 
consent of the particular person whose name was being used? 



COMMinsriST activities in the COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1765 

Dr. DoDD. As I said, sometimes the telegram was sent saying, "If 
we don't hear from you, we will add your name to the telegram." 

I think sometimes people were quoted without giving permission. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do I interpret what you say correctly that the respon- 
sibility really in this type of situation falls on the individual citizen, 
who should think carefully before he leaps, so to speak? 

Dr. DoDD. I think there is a responsibility at present in America, 
the intellectuals, the professional people in America have a special 
responsibility because they are the ones who have been used. They 
have a special responsibility not to endorse telegrams, letters, or reso- 
lutions unless they know where it comes from and to what end it is 
going to be used because they are being used to confuse the American 
public. They are being used in order to divide and to confuse and 
to create chaos in American public opinion. 

Mr. KuNziG. Your description of this fantastic organization that 
the Communist Party has put together to influence people who are 
not Communists is most interesting. Would you say it therefore 
follows that anti-Communists and people fighting against communism 
are not as well organized as Communists are? 

Dr. DoDD. There is no doubt in my mind that the reason which 
explains the tremendous success of the Communists in this country 
and throughout the world lies only in one fact. We have a doctrine 
of life which is every bit as good as, and infinitely superior to, the 
doctrine of life of the Communists. The essence of the Constitution 
and the Declaration of Independence — there is nothing superior to 
that. 

Mr. Clardy. Don't we have one other factor? Don't we have a 
belief in God which they don't have ? 

Dr. DoDD. That is right. The Declaration says, we hold these 
truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal. They are 
endowed by the Creator with certain inalienable rights. The Creator 
gave them these rights. 

There are also the doctrines which we have which are superior to 
the Communist doctrine. The reason why we are losing out and they 
are gaining is that you have to have an organized agency for the 
purpose of supporting the thing which you are interested in. The 
Communists have it, a highly centralized, highly organized, highly 
articulate agency with plenty of money, whereas we are leading our 
laissez-faire existence without organization, and if anyone attempts to 
fight communism, they are spread thin and there is danger that they 
will be smeared and destroyed. 

]Mr. Clardy. Isn't that where committees like our own serve a use- 
ful public purpose? 

Dr. DoDD. That is right, and you need organized support on the 
])art of the people back home, not only in your districts, but all over 
the country. 

Mr. Clardy. We need the kind of support you are talking about? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes, if you do something worthwhile in America, and 
someone gets up and writes a telegram, good ; that is fine. 

Mr. ScHERER. A couple of those telegrams would help the morale 
of this committee occasionally. 

Mr. Walter. We get the other kind. 

.35663— .53 3 



1766 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. Clardt. May I say that during the Los Angeles hearings held 
some months ago, we received a total of around 5,000 letters and 
telegrams and only an infinitesimal percentage were antagonistic. 
We had the advantage there of good press coverage, and good radio 
coverage, and good television coverage, and the message apparently 
got across. 

Dr. DoDD. We used to send telegrams in the Communist Party. If 
we were going to do something, we would have telegrams mimeo- 
graphed. We would spread the mimeographed telegrams and get 
people to sign their names, pay their 33 cents, and we would send them. 
Mr. Clardy. Congressmen got those messages constantly on almost 
every issue. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, turning back to teachers, would you say 
a Communist teacher is a free person ? 

Dr. DoDD. A free person, no; a Communist is not a free person, 
although he thinks he is free. He thinks he is free because he is defy- 
ing what is established society, but unfortunately, no Communist is 
free. He must live within the incubus of the Communist line, and if 
he doesn't follow it, some pretty sad results will be visited upon his 
head, so that he is not free to think as he wants to, to act as he wants 
to, or to operate w^ithin his profession as he wants to. He is urged 
to join certain organizations. He must conform to what the party 
asks him to do. 

Mr. ScHERER. What you say is true, Doctor, because we have had 
similar testimony from a number of fine witnesses before this com- 
mittee. 

I am thinking of one in the Los Angeles area who had advanced to 
a high place in his profession as a writer, but when he became a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party, he was willing to submit his writings 
to functionaries of the party, who blue-penciled that writing and 
said, "This doesn't conform to the party line." 

Men with education far inferior to his were able to edit his work. 
He freely admitted that happened to him on occasions. Certainly, 
that wasn't academic freedom as we know it. 

Dr. Dodd. If you wrote at all, even if you wrote within your own 
field, a physicist or a teacher, if you wrote a book on how to teach 
and were a member of the party, you had to subniit it to the group, 
the collective, for their opinion and their instructions. Even if you 
wrote a novel, you had to submit it for approval, and if it was not 
then approved and you insisted upon publishing it, you were sub- 
ject to expulsion and to getting all the reprisals of getting bad reviews 
by those who are writing reviews on books. 

Mr. ScHERER. Weren't there certain members of the party, or func- 
tionaries of the party, that were assigned to that particular task with- 
in the party of reviewing works such as we have been talking about? 

Dr. DoDD. Well, yes ; there was a cultural committee. 

Mr. Clardy. They extended this censorship in the field of science 

and music ? 

Dr. Dodd. Into every activity of the members. Even on the ques- 
tion of art, if you were an artist and your paintings did not conform 
with the Marxist-Leninist approach, 'you would be criticized by the 
group to which you belonged which was a group of artists. If you 
didn't change your line of tactics, if you didn't conform to the criti- 
cisms, you would find yourself out. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1767 

Mr. ScHEBER. You gentlemen recall the testimony of the director 
in Hollywood who told about the show that was being rehearsed 
where Hitler and Stalin were dancing, Hitler had a knife at the back 
of Stalin and Stalin had a knife at the back of Hitler, and the Com- 
munist Party functionary in control of these people made them take 
the knife out of the hand of Stalin. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, you would say, then, wouldn't yoii, that 
freedom and freedom of speech and so forth, as it is used today in this 
constant discussion of academic freedom, has no application in the 
sense in which it is specifically being used when referred to Communist 
school teachers ? 

Dr. Dodd. Only one freedom the Communist teacher has. Once he 
joins the movement, he is within the collectivity. He performs accord- 
ing to the collective. There is this semblance of freedom which may 
delude teachers, because it is the function of the Communist Party to 
create a defiance of government and defiance of the established in- 
stitutions of this country, the teacher is permitted to exhibit that de- 
fiance against all legally constituted authorities. 

Mr. Clakdy. That is what they want him to do ? 

Dr. Dodd. That is what they want him to do, but he doesn't recognize 
that. He thinks the party is giving him great freedom. The Com- 
munist Party is pushing him in the line of defiance and creating this 
defiance against the regularly established institutions, but he doesn't 
dare say "boo" when it comes to the question of the Communist Party 
or anything the Communist Party sets down. 

I remember once I was at a convention of the American Federation 
of Teachers, 1937, and the great question was whether the American 
Federation of Teachers should go into the CIO or not, and the party 
had laid down the rigid rule that unless we had 90 percent of the 
members of the union, or 85 percent of the members of the union inter- 
ested in going to the CIO, we should stay with the A. F. of L. 

We happened to have 60 percent of the delegates who wanted to go 
into the CIO. In spite of the fact that most of us wanted to go to the 
CIO, we were compelled because we had two party leaders in the 
hotel there practically holding a whip over us — we stayed with the 
A. F. of L. against our better judgment and better instincts, but we had 
to conform to the policy of the party. 

Mr. Clardy. Did Communists, and did you when you were work- 
ing with the Communists, make use of teachers to infiltrate political 
organizations ? 

Dr. Dodd. Teachers are an extremely valuable part of the Com- 
munist Party. 

First, they are great people for raising money and contributing 
money to the party. Secondly, they are an articulate group and good 
to look at. You can send them into any organization, and they can 
stand on their own two feet and speak up and be heard. One of the 
things we did was to use teachers in the various political parties. 

In New York State, we used them in the American Labor Party, 
and in the Progressive Party. There have been places where we sent 
them into the Democratic Party or the Republican Party to operate as 
Eepublicans and Democrats, you know, but to operate as Communists 
within their organizations. 

Mr. Clardy. How do Communists on a college campus function? 



1768 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Dr. DoDD. Where there was a unit of at least three or more mem- 
bers, they would meet regularly and function as a unit. They would 
get instructions from the person in charge of the county or city on 
which the campus was located. They would pay their dues to that 
person. At their meetings, they would discuss first the party line, get 
education on the Marxist-Leninist line and, second, they would dis- 
cuss the question of how to penetrate other organizations. If there 
was no union on the campus, they would form a union. 

If it was too difficult to form a union, they would form a loose 
association in which the common problems might be discussed. They 
would attach themselves or form some connection with the youth, the 
young people, with the students on the campus. 

If there was a parents' organization, they would join the parents' 
organization. They would discuss their meetings and how to function 
in each of the organizations attached to the college. Some of them 
would be used for special work by the party. Some might be used for 
special work in writing, doing research work for the party. The 
party has to get out a lot of literature. Much of the research was 
work done by the members on the campus to be sent in and used as 
the party saw fit. 

If the party wanted to issue something on the monetary system or 
on the question of immigration, or some other question or whatever 
it might be, the people who were specialists on tlie college campus 
were asked to send in research material. 

Mr. KuNziG. How would the Communist professor attempt to 
influence students and other people ? 

Dr. DoDD. Well, as I said before, communism is a way of life, and it 
is almost like a religion. It becomes a part of you. It affects your 
entire thinking. It affects your attitude toward your students, toward 
your government, affects your attitude toward things that are hap- 
pening day by day. Most Communist college professors begin by being 
very much interested in their students, and if they have a Conmiunist 
philosophy, they pass it on. 

Many of them try to influence their students to become Communists. 
Any number of students have become Communists because they ad- 
mired a professor who was going in that direction. Then he func- 
tions within all the other organizations on the campus in affecting 
their thinking, the question of choosing books for the libraiy, the 
question of establishing curricula for the college. 

For instance, if you go through the catalogs of various colleges of 
America, you find from the period of 1925 to about 1948 or 1949 that 
most of the colleges, for instance, have dropped all their courses on 
ethics or religion; you will find most of the colleges dropped their 
courses — even the law schools dropped their courses — on constitutional 
law. That is a strange kind of thing, even in New York State. Many 
law schools dropped the courses on constitutional law. 

Mr. ScHERER. I didn't know that. 

Dr. DoDD. That is true. That change in curriculum is an interest- 
ing thing because it changes your method of approach. If your 
law schools drop their courses on constitutional law, how much more 
do the liberal arts colleges do it ? Within the Constitution, within the 
Bill of Rights, we are very fortunate in that they were written at a 
particular time by a particular group of men. We have the whole 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1769 

genius of the American type of government. Unless the American 
people understand it and appreciate it, they can't fight to defend it. 

When the Communists come along with something that seems so 
superior, they have nothing with which to oppose it. 

Mr. Clardy. You say some of the law schools you are acquainted 
with in New York have actually dropped the study of constitutional 
law? 

Dr. DoDD. In most places, it was not a compulsory part of the 
curriculum. 

Mr. Clardy. It is compulsory in the school I graduated from at 
Ann Arbor. 

Dr. DoDD. It wasn't compulsory in the school I went to. 

You will be interested in noting the catalogs about eithics, courses 
on religion, courses on the Bible ; they have practically been dropped 
out of the college curricula. 

It is a method of despiritualizing the American people. 

Mr. Clardy. A part of the overall movement ? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Why are teachers, above all, so desired by communism ? 

Dr. DoDD. Well, I guess the Communists know that the old people 
living in America today are not going to make the revolution. They 
are not the people who are going to count. They count on the young 
people, and those who control the youth are the people who control 
the future of this country. 

Mr. Clardy. That is the reasoning that Hitler used, isn't it ? 

Dr. DoDD. That is the reasoning that any people have who are 
out to control. 

Mr. Clardy. Seize the minds of the youth, and you will have them 
in due course to control the Nation ? 

Dr. Dodd. For better or for worse. I am for the Americans seizing 
the minds of the youth and giving them standards to live by which 
are part of the western culture. 

Mr. Clardy. May I ask a question on a related subject? I had 
occasion to answer a question on this subject myself, and I would like 
to have yours. Do you agi*ee that it would be a wholesome thing if 
not only constitutional law and the American system as a whole were 
taught, but that the youth were taught all about communism, all 
about socialism, all about the various isms, so that they might be 
able to draw a real conclusion as to which was the better? 

Dr. Dodd. I certainly believe the American people have got to stop 
fooling around with just fighting communism in the abstract. They 
have got to know what the thing means, why they are against it, and 
how to fight it. 

Mr. Clardy. Teaching it, not advocating it, of course, but teaching 
it so that the pupils from an early age will understand what it is 
all about, would be one of the most effective ways of combating it, 
don't you think? 

Dr. Dodd. I think it is absolutely essential. Wlien 37 people out 
of 100 are living in a Communist regime, certainly we ought to know 
what it means and our people ought to understand it and pose it 
against the things we believe. 

Mr. Clardy. I learned one thing in the hearings at Los Angeles 
that still has me staggered. It was to the effect that the Communists 



1770 COMMLGSriST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

actually took nursery rhymes and treated them to follow the party lines 
so they might seize the mind of youth even in the kindergarten 
stage ? 

Dr. DoDD. That is not unusual, is it? After all, if you are going to 
seize the minds of children, you seize them as early as possible. 

That is one of the things the Communists have done. I am for 
nursery schools for working women, certainly, but the Communists 
have come out with a program for nursery schools for everyone. 

In the nursery schools, you begin by affecting the children by 
emphasizing material values. You eliminate, for instance, from the 
nursery school rhymes and anything that has to do with religion. At 
Cliristmas you deal with Christmas as a pagan holiday. You choose 
the rhymes, choose the activities, and you follow the educational 
philosophy which says the child is just a blank page. He learns only 
by doing. You adopt that philosophy and implement it. 

Mr. Clardy. The party is dedicated, then, from the beginning, to 
destroying all belief in God, all belief in religion, all belief in man's 
right to be an individual, in fact, just destroying everything that we 
think is worthwhile in life ? 

Dr. DoDD. There is no doubt about the fact that the first enerny of 
the Communist is a belief in the fact that you are created by a Divine 
Creator. That they have to get rid of before anything else. If they 
can wipe that out, then it is easy, because if you don't believe in a 
God, all you believe in is better material advancement, and the Com- 
munists promise greater material advancement for all. 

Mr. ScHERER. Because we believe in America as so stated, our in- 
alienable rights come from the Creator ? 

Dr. DoDD. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, teachers, then, obviously play an important 
part in the Communist scheme of things in teaching youth. Contrary- 
wise, do teachers as such, intellectual people as such, do they play an 
important part in the higher realms of party control ? In other words, 
do they want such people there, or do they not want such people there ? 

Dr. Dodd. Well, there are a few teachers who become topnotch party 
leaders. 

Mr. KuNziG. Such as yourself ? 

Dr. Dodd. But, by and large, teachers are used. Intellectuals are 
used because the Communist Party distrusts all bourgeois education. 
They would much prefer to take a man who has had a third or fourth 
grade education, send him to a national training school of the Com- 
munist Party, and give him the slogans and the ideologies of Marxism 
and Leninism and have him become the important person who becomes 
the leader of the party. 

While they use it all the time, they are contemptuous of bourgeois 
education. Very few from the intellectual groups become leaders of 
the Communist Party. In 1935, I was a member of the cadre com- 
mittee ; a cadre committee. 

Mr. Clardy. What is that name? 

Dr. Dodd. Cadre committee. That committee was supposed to 
screen all the past leadership and decide whether they should remain 
as leaders or not. I was a young person and put on that committee; 
I don't know why; just nominated from the floor, and when we went 
through the list of people who came before us, I was aghast when each 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1771 

one repeated tlie same type of story : "My mother took in washing," or, 
"My family was poor," 

They made themselves poor. They said they were poor, that they 
only went to the third grade, "but I became a leader." If you had an 
education, you really became a little embarrassed about it. 

I remember at that time asking Alexander Trachtenberg about this 
phenomena, and he said that was just so much talk, that Stalin studied 
for the priesthood, and Lenin was a lawyer. That gave me a sense of 
the dishonesty of it, then, that they would constantly belittle them- 
selves to emphasize the fact that proletarians were capable of rising to 
leadership. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you try to infiltrate not only teachers in universi- 
ties and also infiltrate teachers' schools — in other words, teachers who 
taught the teachers ? 

Dr. DoDD. The rule was, wherever possible, you made contacts and 
you tried to place people into positions of influence. 

Communists don't like to be in jobs which don't have influence. 
They don't like ordinary workers' jobs. 

Mr. Clardy. They are seeking after power, aren't they ? 

Dr. DoDD. Yes. Teachers' institutions are very powerful institu- 
tions because if you are teaching teachers, and they go out and teach 
others, the realm of your influence is very great. 

Mr. Clardy. That sucker list theory, just expanded? 

Dr. DoDD. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. I would like to ask you a personal question, if I may, 
Dr. Dodd, to this effect : You talked previously about how Communist 
teachers influence their students. Do you feel that you yourself as a 
Communist teacher influenced students? 

Dr. Dodd. There is no doubt in my mind that I influenced students. 
I was teaching economics; I was teaching political science, history. 
These are subjects which are very easily influenced by a Marxist- 
Leninist approach. I was teaching during the period of the depres- 
sion, and during that period the Communists said the reason for the 
depression was the breakdown in the capitalist system and the only 
thing which would obviate any future depressions would be elimina- 
tion of the system. Change the system, and you would have no more 
depressions. 

Unfortunately, there were no other answers being given at the time. 
The Communist answer was the easiest answer to give. It was easy 
to just push the students in that direction. 

Mr. Clardy. Wouldn't you say. Doctor, that it is just simply impos- 
sible for a genuine Communist to divide himself, more or less, and 
isolate the Communist thinking from his other thinking when he goes 
into the classroom? 

Dr. Dodd. It is impossible for him to divide himself. He is a Com- 
munist primarily. 

Mr. Clardy. When he goes in the classroom, he is entirely a Com- 
munist and anything he thinks is bound to influence what he does and 
says about things, isn't it ? 

Dr. Dodd. And what he influences the students to do. 
Mr. ScHERER. He can't teach objectively ? 

Dr. Dodd. It is impossible. You talk to your students; you can't 
tear yourself apart. 



1772 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, if I might suggest it, this might be 
a ^ood moment for a break. 

Mr. ScHERER. We will recess, then, gentlemen, until 1 : 30. 

(Thereupon, at 12:20 p. m., the hearing was recessed to reconvene 
at 1 : 30 p. m. same day.) 

AFl'ERNOON SESSION 

(At the hour of 1 :45 p. m., of the same day, the proceedings were 
resumed, the same parties being present.) 

TESTIMONY OF BELLA V. DODD— Eesumed 

Mr. ScHERER. The committee will be in session. 

You may proceed, Mr. Counsel, with the witness. 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, Mr. Chairman. 

Dr. Docld, you were talking before about the Communist purpose, 
what they do. Could you describe further the Communist sense of 
participation for world good, so to speak ; how they are led into this 
type of thinking and their belief in what they themselves are doing ? 

Dr. DoDD. Well, the Communist movement does give to the indi- 
vidual person who feels sort of lost in this world a sense of participa- 
tion in something which is much bigger than himself. He has a sense 
of belonging to a world movement so that if the Chinese are making 
a revolution he feels a part of that Chinese movement. He not only 
feels a part of it but he pledges his own loyalty and his own support. 

This is one of the explanations why the Communist movement has 
grown so rapidly among people, particularly among people who are 
dispossessed, people who do not feel a part of things in this world, 
people who have given up any real belief in a fundamental philosophy 
of life or religion. They give themselves a sense of participation in 
great things in the world. 

Mr. KuNziG. If they feel they are doing great things and good 
things — and everyone likes to feel that what he is doing is good — 
how does a Communist interpret the millions of people in concen- 
tration camps under the heel of the Russian Government? 

Dr. DoDD. Mr. Counselor, I want to assure you that genuine Com- 
munists don't believe that. They believe that is nothing but propa- 
ganda issued by the imperialists or capitalists. They do not believe 
there are any people in the concentration camps of the Soviet Union. 
If you brought them statistics, they wouldn't believe it. They believe 
only their own propagandists, or those who will make statements sim- 
ilar to their own propagandists. 

Mr. Clardy. Even when Dave Dallin or someone comes from Rus- 
sia and tells them ? 

Dr. DoDD. One of the sorriest examples I can give you is myself. 
As late as 1949, I was asked the question, "How about the people in 
the concentration camps in Russia?" 

I said, "I am not aware of the fact that there are concentration 
camps in Russia. I don't know." 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, having been, as you just said, a personal 
victim of the Communist conspiracy, what would be your message 
of warning to the teachers of this Nation on this problem? 

Dr. DoDD. I have a great deal of respect for both the public and 
private schools of America. American education, by and large, has 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1773 

given us a wonderful body of people, trained and skilled to make 
the wonders of American industry. 

I think, however, that the American teachers have to understand 
that education must have a basic philosophy and they must themselves 
drink deep of the political genuis of America as embodied in the 
Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. 

They must have a philosophy consonant with the Hebraic-Christian 
tradition, which has been the basis of western civilization. I think 
teachers must understand that they are the guardians of America's 
future; and, by and large, I think the teachers have been fulfilling 
and will fulfill this duty. The unusual persons in their midst who get 
trapped in the Communist conspiracy, they must recognize, they must 
label, and they must help that person as a person. 

I don't mean that the teachers on the campus are to hurt the Com- 
munist teachers, but they must label them so that they are out in the 
open. That is the thing which the teachers of America can do. They 
know who the Communists are on the campus. They know better 
than any investigating committee could ever know. They are the 
ones Avho can avert this great clanger which faces America. 

Mr. KuNziG. But, at least to all signs at present, they have not done 
it, have they ? 

Mr. DoDD. Well, it is an uneven thing. In some communities they 
have, and in other communities they have not. In some communities 
they have allowed themselves to be pulled into a group whom they call 
"liberals" ; and, on the ground of the right of every j)erson to believe 
as he sees fit, they have allowed themselves to become supporters of the 
very members of this conspiracy. 

This is not liberalism, not liberalism in the finest sense of the word. 
This is just allowing the Communist to pull them into a propaganda 
environment which says that "anyone who is close to the Communist 
is a liberal. I do not believe that is the definition of "a liberal." 

A liberal is a person who believes in the right of the individual to 
function. The Communist does not believe in the right of the indi- 
vidual. They believe only in the right of the collective. The individ- 
ual is only part of a collective group, and whenever he doesn't move 
according to the collective he is ousted from the group. 

Mr. KuNziG. So you would say that when so-called liberals today, 
self-denominated liberals, support and work with the Communist 
program, they are being deluded into thinking they are helping a 
liberal cause when it is not liberal. 

Dr. DoDD. One of the great tragedies today is that these Americans 
do not realize that this would take civilization back to a barbarism 
which existed long before the Christian era. 

Mr. KuNziG. I wanted to ask you a little bit about another country 
which I always felt personally was one of the greatest free countries 
in Europe, and that is the country of Czechoslovakia. Certainly it 
was one of the finest democracies in the world at one time, was it not? 

Mr. DoDD. Yes, and took many of its ideas from the American 
Constitution. 

Mr. KuNziG. That country was formed in Philadelphia in front of 
our Liberty Bell in the days of President Wilson. 

That country fell. I wanted to ask you whether you feel that 
America might some day succumb to the same type of thinking that 



1774 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

commimism hands out unless we are able to break up this thought 
that they have. 

Dr. DoDD. There is no doubt in my mind that Czechoslovakia didn't 
fall before an armed force, but fell because the intellectuals and pro- 
fessional groups in Czechoslovakia came to the conclusion that com- 
munism was their salvation. They are the ones who opened the door 
to the Soviet Union. It is quite possible in the United States to 
have — it is not a very difficult thing for a country to fall. It isn't a 
question — we must get away from the idea that a country falls by guns 
alone. A country falls when we adopt Communist ideas and move 
in the direction of communism. The battle for America is house by 
house, street by street, city by city. It is a question of asking our- 
selves what ideas and ideals are we living by ? 

" The Communists have a way of changing names and labels. When 
the old names become discredited, they change these names. They 
change the name of the Communist Party. In some South American 
countries, you have any number of parties that do not go under the 
name of Communist Party. 

How shall we recognize them, then ? We can only recognize them 
by the fact that they believe that there is no God ; that a person is just 
born, grows, dies, decays, and that is the end. They believe that the 
individual doesn't matter; that the collective matters. They believe 
that certain people should have the power to run a country. 

Wlien these principles are evident, no matter what labels they are 
under, we recognize them as signs of communism. It is not up to the 
teachers alone, but to each father and mother. Each person within 
our country has the job of defeating Communist ideas. It is up to 
Congress to ferret out the organized agents of communism. It is up to 
our FBI to do that. The rest of us have the job of building a strong 
America, strengthening the family life, strengthening the virtues of 
the individual. 

If you have a strong family life, and you obliterate some of the 
social inequities that exist, and I want to add that, because I think 
the Communists feed upon social inequities; whenever there is injus- 
tice, discrimination, against a Jewish person, foreign born persons or 
Negro persons, they grow. It is up to us to eradicate those injustices. 
If we do that, we needn't fear communism. 

Mr. KuNziG. I wondered, Dr. Dodd, if you possibly recall an ex- 
perience you had recently at the University of Connecticut with re- 
gard to this situation you had there ? Do you want to tell the com- 
mittee that? It was with regard to what happened to a boy in 
Czechoslovakia. 

Dr. DoDD. I didn't know you heard that story. I was at the Uni- 
versity of Connecticut not long ago, and I had a lot of questions 
asked me pro and con. Many of the people were saying, "How about 
freedom of thought and so on?" 

After answering the questions to the best of my ability for about 
an hour and a half, a boy got up. He had on a leather jacket. In 
rather broken English, he said, "You fellows here at the university 
are speaking exactly as we talked in Czechoslovakia 5 years ago. It 
is too late for us, but it isn't too late for you." 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, I wanted to ask you if you would read to 
the committee and into the record from a publication called The Com- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1775 

munist, the theoretical magazine of the Communist Party, an article 
written in 1937 at the time the Teachers' Union was at its peak, an 
article called, The Schools Are the People's Front. This was written 
by a man called Eichard Frank. If you have no copy, I have one here. 
I wanted to ask you if you would give the committee the exact words 
from this article to show what the viewpoint of the Communist is. 

Dr. DoDD. This was an article written by a young Communist who 
was recruited from the University of Virginia and who became a func- 
tionary of the Commiuiist Party. This article was written in 1937, 
in the magazine called The Communist, which was the theoretical 
organ for the Communist Party. 

This had to do with the duties and functions of the teachers in edu- 
cation — Connnunist teachers in the educational system. 

Mr. KuNziG. That is why I think it is important to present this to 
the committee. 

Dr. DoDD. These are just excerpts from it. 

That which is most immediately apparent to anyone who studies public edu- 
cation must be the fact that the public school system is part of the state ma- 
chinery, and the function of the state machinery being to subjugate the pro- 
letarian and the toiling masses in general to the rule of the bourgeoisie, the role 
of the public school system cannot be isolated from this general function of 
the capitalist state. 

This merely means that the Communists believe that our Govern- 
men is the instrument of class domination. That the rule is made by 
the employers, not by the employees ; by the owners of the property, 
but not by those who are without property, and therefore, the schools^ 
being a part of the state apparatus are also instruments of oppres- 
sing the proletariat. 

On the next page, Frank says — 

Because of the economic hardships of their home life, the majority of the 
children develop a feeling of hatred for the bourgeois public school system. This 
hatred develops that spirit of rebelliousness which is to be found in every public 
schoolroom. 

The rebelliousness of the school children directed against a part of the state 
machinery itself is something that Communists cannot afford to ignore. This, 
together with their desire for knowledge and social life, must form the start- 
ing point for our work among the students in the schools. The problem is 
rather how to guide and direct that spirit of rebelliousness which already 
exists. 

And then, of course, he makes certain recommendations, that we 
ought to get the student into the Young Communist League. 

The Young Communist League must endeavor to raise the spirit of rebellion 
found among school children to a level of higher consciousness by educating the 
student on the l)asis of their own experience to a realization of the class basis 
for the oppressive nature of the schools and to a realization of how the school 
system under a workers' and farmers' government would deal with the immediate 
problems of the majority of students, imparting to them, with the utmost solici- 
tude for their own interests, that warm and friendly culture of their own class. 

In other words, this emphasizes the class structure thesis of the Com- 
munists. Then, he goes on to say — 

The task of the Communist Party must be first and foremost to arouse the 
teachers to class consciousness and to organize them into the union. 

Communist teachers are therefore faced with a tremendous social responsi- 
bility. They must consider not merely their own teaching problems, but the 
problems of the children. They must take advantage of their position without 
exposing themselves, to give their students, to the best of their ability, the 
working-class education. 



1776 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, how much money, may I ask, did you earn 
with the party ? 

Dr. Dodd. Well, I think 

Mr. KuNziG. Per week or per month ? 

Dr. Dodd. One of the things Americans must understand, the large 
number of Americans that get "sucked" into the Communist Party, do 
it through idealism. I was an instructor at Hunter College when I 
resigned. I resigned because I wanted to go into the labor movement. 
I went in the Teachers' Union and I received $60 a week. I never 
took more than $60 a week for all the 8 or 9 years I was with the 
Teachers' Union. When I was asked to serve as the legislative repre- 
sentative of the Communist Party, I received the sum of $50 a week 
as pay, and that was $42 a week take-home pay. You may say, 
"Weren't you foolish, with your education, to take that kind of 
money?" 

We weren't doing it for pay. We were doing it because we really 
believed in it. That doesn't close my eyes to the fact that there were 
people in the party who were getting a great many economic advan- 
tages by being in the party because salaries were uneven. It depended 
upon what your needs were or what the party leaders thought your 
needs were. The more idealistic you were, the more they kept you 
in this stage. That was the reason why we took the salary we did. 
Most of the men who worked in the party worked for very low salaries. 

Mr. KuNziG. Doctor, while you were a member of the National 
Committee of the Communist Party, were you ever sent around the 
United States to coordinate the units by settling strifes or things that 
may have been evident, and if so, were you ever sent to Ohio? 

Dr. Dodd. Yes; I was in Ohio in early 1945 or late 1944. I was a 
member of the national committee. I was sent to Cleveland and 
within about 75 or a hundred mile radius, I stopped in the various 
places where the party was having problems and tried to coordinate, 
tried to eliminate strife, and tried to clarify the line for them. 

At that time, we were just at the end of the war period and beginning 
this new postwar era, and the party was uncertain as to what line we 
should follow. This was just before we got the Duclos letter and 
much strife had risen in the party at that time. It was my duty to 
talk to party functionaries, to party union leaders, and to various 
other functionaries of the party. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Dodd, Herbert Philbrick, who was an undercover 
agent of the FBI, testified the Communist Party ordered the members 
in Avhite-collar positions, to seek employment in factories. This has 
been followed, obviously, because Communist investigations have 
shown some individuals who were proven Communists were holders 
of Ph. D.'s, for example, and were working in factory assembly lines. 

Can you explain this situation? 

Dr. Dodd. Well, I tell you, the directions of the party differed. In 
general, the party tried to proletarianize the educated members of 
the party. They tried to get them to feel like workers, to be with 
the workers and to actually live the life of the w^orkers, but at the 
same time, the party selected certain of the intellectuals to go into 
higher positions. 

Let me assure you that just as many Communists as you had going 
down into tlie ranks of the workers, you also had many people who 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1777 

were being put into very elegant situations, I mean Communists who 
were very comfortable in dinner jackets and in high society. 

In other words, the party knew how to distribute its forces, but in 
general, they attempted to proletarianize their white-collar workers, 
feeling that they had nothing to lose but their chains, feeling that 
they had more in common with the workers of the world than with 
citizens within their own country. 

Mr. KuNziG. I would like to have you remove a doubt in case any 
exists as to the fact that a majority of the teachers support commu- 
nism. Of course, that isn't so. I would like to have you comment 
on that. 

Dr. DoDD. There are many teachei-s in America, and 99.99 are 
against conmiunism if they knoAv anything about it, and they are 
loyal Americans. The small percentage who are Communists are 
effective because they are so well organized, so well sychronized and 
that is the group we want to reach. 

Mr. KuNziG. I certainly hope and I feel sure that your testimony 
here today will reach many of these people and make them realize the 
problems of communism. 

I have no further questions. 

Mr. SciiERER. Mr. Clardy, do you have any questions ? 

Mr. Clardy. No, I do not. 

I want to present to you, Mrs. Dodd, the feeling which I have which 
I am sure is reflected by other members of the committee. I think 
you have made an important contribution to the committee's work, 
the work of the Congress in combatting this evil of communism. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Walter. 

Mr. Walter. I want to join with my colleague, Mr. Clardy, but I 
think you have done more than that. I think your contribution to- 
day has been equal to that, perhaps, of a division of American soldiers 
in this fight against communism, and I only hope that what you have 
done, which wasn't easy, I know, will give enough courage- to other 
educated people, so that they will do what must be done. 

Mr. ScHERER. Dr. Dodd, my two colleagues have expressed very 
ably the sentiments of the committee, and I want to thank you for 
coming here. 

You are discharged from further attendance under the subpena. 

Mr. Kunzig, do you have another witness ? 

Mr. Kunzig. The next witness I would like to call is Dr. Luxon. 

Mr. ScHERER. Will you raise your hand and be sworn ? 

Do you solemnlj' swear that the testimony you shall give to this sub- 
committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God. 

Mr. I uxoN. I do. 

Mr. Kunzig. Dr. Luxon, will you give your full name ? 

TESTIMONY OF NORVAL NEIL LUXON 

Dr. Luxon. Norval Neil Luxon. 

Mr. Kunzig. AVliat is your address ? 

Dr. LuxoN. 82 West Dominion Boulevard, Columbus. 

Mr. Kunzig. Dr. Luxon, where are you employed, sir ? 

Dr. Luxon. Ohio State University. 

Mr. Kunzig. In what capacity ? 



1778 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Dr. LuxoN. Assistant to the president and professor of journalism. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you have occasion recently to be present at a hear- 
ing given to Dr. Darling by the officers and officials of Ohio State 
University ? 

Mr. Clardy. Before he answers, I think we should make it abun- 
dantly clear that he is called before the committee for a technical pur- 
pose, and since he is not accompanied by counsel, that fact should also 
be on the record. 

Mr. KuNziG. I take it you are willing to testify without counsel ? 

Dr. LuxoN. I am perfectly willing. 

Mr. Clardy. We appreciate that, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you present at the hearing ? 

Dr. LuxON. I was one of the 7 observers ; 3 faculty members and 4 
members of the president's office that President Bevis asked to sit with 
him on the hearing for Dr. Darling. 

Mr. KuNziG. You were subpenaed to come here today; is that 
correct ? 

Dr. LuxON. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you were subpenaed duces tecum, to bring with 
you the transcript of that hearing ? 

Dr. LuxoN. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you have that with you ? 

Dr. LuxoN. I have it here. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have this transcript 
marked "Exhibit No. 1, Darling Exhibit No. 1," and offer same into 
evidence in this hearing. 

Mr. ScHERER. It will be so marked and so received. 

(Darling exhibit No. 1 was marked for identification and received 
in evidence.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Am I correct in assuming that this transcript which is 
Darling Exhibit No. 1 is the exact transcript of what happened at 
that hearing? 

Dr. LuxoN. I would say it is as exact as humanly possible. 

Mr. Clardy. If there are any errors, they have not been called to 
your attention ? 

Dr. LuxoN. Well, there were two words in there that, even though 
we played the tape over about 30 times, neither the head of our record- 
ing studio nor I could make out the words, and so we marked them 
"indistinguishable." 
. In several of the long statements, what is in the transcript is directly 
from the typed script which was read by the witnesses, 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Luxon, do you know a James C. Harris, who is 
apparently an assistant professor of physics ? 

Dr. LuxoN. I know him casually as I know many of our faculty 
members. I speak to him, see him in the faculty club. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is there a James C. Harris who is an assistant profes- 
sor of physics ? 

Dr. LuxoN. Yes ; there is. 

Mr. KuNziG. At Ohio State? 

Dr. LuxoN. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Harris— Professor Harris — is apparently on a 
trip to Europe and won't be here to testify today, but I wanted to ask 
you whetlier Professor Harris was present at this hearing along with 
Professor Darling? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1779 

Dr. LuxoN. He was present at the April 4 part of the hearing when 
Professor Darling was accompanied by his attorney, Joseph Forer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Of Washington, D. C. ? 

Dr. LuxoN. Yes, Washington, D. C, and the president invited Dr. 
Darling to be present with counsel and bring whomever he wished. 
At the April 2 hearing, Dr. Darling appeared alone and made an 
appeal for a delay. We gave him a 48-hour postponement, and when 
he appeared Saturday morning he was accompanied by Mr. Forer, 
and by Professor Harris. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you familiar with a mimeographed document 
which was circulated throughout Columbus and the Ohio State Uni- 
versity and also other universities signed by James C. Harris, ac- 
companied by a mimeographed statement marked "Darling State- 
ment," unsigned, and not mentioning Darling's name ? Have you seen 
that ? I understand it is an actual part of the record of that hearing ? 

Dr. Luxox. Only a part of it is a part of the hearing. The dis- 
tribution of that statement was made to only a certain selected few 
faculty members. Many faculty members did not get it. No one in 
the administration got it except in some cases, some of our friends 
brought it to us, and I know there is such a document. If you have it 
there, I can identify it. 

Mr. ScHEEER. Please have it identified. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have a document here, Mr. Chairman, marked 
"Darling Exhibit No. 2" for identification. I would like now to 
have this handed to the witness and see if he can identify it as the 
statement about which we are talking. 

Dr. LuxoN. Well, just in running through it hurriedly, it appar- 
ently is that document ; yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, investigation by committee investi- 
gators has shown that this has been circulated around Ohio State 
and other universities. It is pertinent to this case, and I should like 
to offer this document which has been marked "Darling Exhibit 
No. 2" for identification, into evidence as Darling exhibit No. 2. 

Mr. ScHERER. It will be so received. 

(Darling exhibt No. 2 for identification was marked and received 
in evidence.) 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further questions of this witness. 

Mr. Clardt. May I inquire, counsel, if that is the statement that is 
read in the evidence and is found in exhibit No. 1 ? 

Mr. KuNziG. According to the testimony, only a part of this state- 
ment was read in the record. 

Mr. Clardt. That is what I understood him to say. I wondered 
if I heard correctly. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that correct, Doctor? 

Dr. LuxoN. The entire statement which Dr. Darling read in the 
closed hearing is a part of this document that he is just asking me 
about. 

Mr. Clardt. I see, but the document marked "Darling Exhibit No. 
2" that he is just inquiring about is not included in its entirety in the 
original Darling exhibit No. 1 that you brought to the hearing? 

Dr. LuxoN. Oh, no, because the president's office prepared exhibit 
No. 1, and this was prepared by — at least, it was signed by Mr. Harris, 
a colleague of Dr. Darling. 



1780 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. ScHERER. The statement of Dr. Harris, which is part of the 
exhibit just presented to yon was one of the things that was not in- 
ckidecl in the record which yon — wliich is marked Darling exhibit 
No. 1; is that correct? Do you understand my question? 

Dr. LuxoN. Yes, I understand it. Without checking the two 
against each other, I would not be sure whether the statement of Mr. 
Harris is in exhibit 1. As I recall in his testimony, he didn't testify — 
in his statement, toward the end of the hearing, he made a very brief 
statement and asked a couple of questions. When he circulated this 
statement of Dr. Darling which was made in the hearing, he wrote 
a letter, what you would normally call a covering letter. That is not 
part of exhibit 1. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is what I am referring to, the covering letter. 
That is not part of exhibit 1 ? 

Dr. LuxoN. No, that is not part of exhibit 1. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you have any questions ? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, I do. Was Dr. Darling sworn at any time when 
he a]:)peared before the committee and gave the testimony that you 
find in exhibit 1 ? 

Dr. LuxoN. You mean appeared in the president's office? 

Mr. Clardy. Whatever you want to call it. 

Dr. LuxoN. No, that was an informal hearing. The president 
stated to him, as is shown in the beginning of the transcript, that he 
was not under oath. That he could say anything that he wanted to ; 
that his friends or his counsel could say anything that they wished. 

Mr. Clardy. Were any sworn statements of any kind submitted 
at that meeting or that hearing? 

Dr. LuxON. No, there are 18 pages of exhibits in the last part of 
that transcript, and they are mostly letters, clippings of a newspaper 
ad, and other clippings; no sworn statements. 

We conducted this as an administrative hearing informally as 
a hearing within the walls of the university, just as guidance to the 
president, as what to do in the decisions as to whether Dr. Darling 
was a fit person to remain a member of the teaching staff. 

Mr. Clardy. That was my understanding. We wanted that clear- 
ly in the record. Thank you. 

Mr. KuNziG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Walter? 

Dr. Luxon, thank you very much for coming to testify. You are 
excused. 

(Wherepon the witness was excused.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, at this point, I should like to get per- 
mission of the Chair to read into the record the covering letter to 
Darling exhibit No. 2, signed by James C. Harris, assistant professor 
of physics. 

Mr. SciiERER. You may do so. 

Mr. KuNziG. The covering letter on the outside of this mimeo- 
graphed document, Darling exhibit No. 2, is as follows : 

To Our Colleagues at the Ohio State University: 

The Darling case is of the greatest importance to the defense of the rights 
of teachers, to the cause of academic freedom, and to the safeguarding and 
strengthening of the rules of tenure. In this regard, I respectfully submit with 
Professor Darling's approval the following facts on the case to our colleagues 
in order that they may be informed of the issue to be met. 

James C. Harris, 
Assistaiit Professor of Physics. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1781 

Then follows this lengthy docnment of the statement, presumably, 
by Professor Darling, but I may add, sir, that there is no signature 
on this wliatsoever. 

Mr. ScHERER. The statement is designated "Darling statement," 
is it not ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, sir; printed and typed at the top is "Darling 
statement"; those words. 

Mr. ScHERER. ]\Iay I ask if you compared that statement in the 
exhibit from which you are reading with the statement made by Dr. 
Darling as shown by the transcript of the record of his hearing at 
Ohio State University which is exhibit 1 ? 

Mr. KuNziG. I believe, sir, they are not word for word. 

Mr. ScHERER. They are not word for word? 

Mr. KuNziG. We have not compared them completely word for word. 
I have just gotten this here. 

Mr. Clardy, You just saw No. 1 a few minutes ago ? 

Mr. KuNziG. And No. 2. 

Mr. Clardy. You have seen another copy of Darling exhibit No. 2 
before coming here, I take it? 

Mr. KuNziG. Just a moment. 

I would like, sir, now, to ask permission to read into the record a 
letter from exhibit No. 1 which is the transcript. There are 2 letters ; 
1 on page 40 and 1 on page 41 of the transcript. They are both 
addressed to Professor Williams here, and they are signed by Lloyd 
C. Emmons, and I should like to ask Congressman Clardy if he could 
explain for the record who Lloyd C. Emmons is. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, he was dean at the college in my hometown, 
Michigan State College, for many years, one of the most respected 
members of the faculty, a personal friend of mine, one whose word 
is as good as gold. 

Mr. KuNziG,. From the record, then, sir, with yoiu- permission, may 
I read? 

Mr. ScHERER. You may. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Williams testified : 

I gathered from this he had heen a dean of some kind and is now on the 
athletic council. Both of these letters are dated March 24, 1953, and I re- 
quested these later than I did the letter from the physics department, because 
I thought that the physics department letters were more pertinent to our own 
problems here, and they were more recent and more recent information. 

"Dear Professor Wiliams : I am glad to make this statement concerning the 
experience with Dr. B. T. Darling while he \\as a member of our staff. He 
came here on a temporary 8 months' appointment effective April 1, 193'.), and 
he remained with us for an additional year until August 31, 1941. Dr. Darling 
had a good background of mathematics training and exhibited a thorough 
knowledge of his subject. The only criticism we had of him while he was 
here was that he was a bit irresponsible in looking after details that must be 
attended to by any staff member. We were not unhappy when he decided to 
seek employment elsewhere. 
"Very truly yours, 

"Lloyd C. Emmons." 

Then he [Dr. Williams] goes on to say : 

In the same envelope is another letter which should be made a part of the 
record here. This letter is as follows : 

"Dear Professor Williams : I am enclosing a letter of the type that I might 
have written for a year or two after Dr. Darling left us. 

"In the next year or two following that, I had submitted to me information 
from some alumni who had known him quite well and who now, as teachers, 

35663—53 4 



1782 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

felt that they should furnish me with certain information, since they did not 
know that Mr. Darling had left Michigan State College. I cannot give you the 
names of these people, due to the fact that the records in my office have been 
disposed of since I retired from the deanship, but I remember well that there 
was a positive statement that Dr. Darling had strong communistic leanings, and 
they were willing, if necessary, to testify as to their knowledge about him if 
the occasion should arise. 

"I am certain you will not care to use this later material, but I thought it in 
the interest of completeness you should know about it. 
"Sincerely yours, 

"Lloyd C. Emmons." 

This may have been a breach of confidence, but I feel the department should 
put all the evidence at the disposal of the president and therefore, I should 
like to present these letters. 

That concludes the portion that I should like to read from Darling 
exhibit No. 1. 

Mr. ScHERER. At this point, I would like to make a statement for 
the record. 

When Dr. Darling testified before the Un-American Activities 
Committee in Washington on Friday, March 13 of this year, among 
the questions asked him and the answers given were the following : 

Question by Mr. Kunzig : 

At the time the Air Force invited you to go to its conference, was that after 
the time you left Michigan State? 

Mr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Walter. Professor, you say you were invited through the Air Force. 
Who extended the invitation? 

Mr. Darling. Well, as I recall, it was Mr. Chapman. 

Mr. Walter. Do you know what his first name was? 

Mr. Darling. No, I don't know his first name. 

Mr. Walter. What position did he hold in the Air Force? 

Mr. Darling. I don't know that. 

Mr. Walter. Was he a civilian employee of the Air Force? 

Mr. Darling. Yes, I believe he was. 

Mr. Walter. Where did you meet him. Professor? 

Mr. Darling. I met him at Ohio State University. 

Mr. Walter. Who introduced you to him? 

Mr. Darling. Let's see ; I don't know whether it was Professor Neilsen or 
Professor Williams. I don't recollect, Mr. Walter. 

Mr. Walter. Were either of those professors members of the Commimist 
Party? 

Mr. Darung. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

The reasons Dr. Darling had previously given in his testimony were 
that to answer such a question might tend to incriminate him. 

From this testimony, it is obvious that Mr. Walter of the committee 
should have asked Dr. Darling who introduced him to Mr. Chapman, 
since Dr. Darling could not remember Mr. Chapman's first name. 

When Dr. Darling said it was either a Professor Neilsen or a Pro- 
fessor Williams who introduced him to this man Chapman, it was 
proper for Mr. Walter, who at that time had never heard of these 
professors, to ask Dr. Darling if they were members of the Communist 
Party. 

When Dr. Darling refused to answer this question on the ground 
that, to do so might incriminate him, he did a serious injustice to 
both of these Ohio State professors. 

It is the keenest desire of the committee that no adverse reflection 
of any kind attach to either Professor H. H. Neilsen, or Professor Dud- 
ley Williams as the result of Dr. Darling's testimony. Therefore, 
our staff has carefully checked the committee's records, and I am 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1783 

pleased to report that it has found nothing which might in any way 
reflect upon the loyalty or professional ability of these two Ohio 
State professors. 

I might also add that the committee has received the utmost coopera- 
tion from the president and the board of trustees of Ohio State 
University. This investigation of two individuals who were em- 
ployed at the university, one of whom was also working on a project 
from the United States Air Force at the same time, should not cast 
any adverse reflection whatsoever on the university. In fact, Ohio 
State, as we all know, is one of the truly great universities of this 
country. 

Mr. Counsel, your next witness. 

Mr. Clardt. Before you do that, I think I ought to add, Mr. 
Chairman, the fact that since I was present at that original hearing, 
I had absolutely now knowledge, of course, of either of the gentle- 
men members of this faculty who were mentioned and while I didn't 
inquire about it, it was merely because my colleague, Mr. Walter, 
asked the question first. They were questions that necessarly needed 
to be asked, but I also am thoroughly convinced, as is the entire com- 
mittee, that a great injustice was done in bringing these names in, 
especially when the witness had refused under all circumstances to 
give us the names or admit knowledge about a whole host of others. 
Why he chose to bring in those names of innocent people, only he can 
answer. 

Mr. ScHERER. Well, I think what we have said clarifies the record. 

You may proceed. 

Mr. KuNziG. I should like to call as the next witness, Mr. Chairman, 
Mrs. Barbara Darling. 

Mr. FoRER. Before we enter appearance, we would like to enter our 
objection to the absence of a quorum of the full committee. 

Mr. ScHERER. Your objection will be noted. 

Mrs. Darling, will you stand and be sworn ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give to this 
subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Darling. I do. 

Mr. Scherer. Proceed. 

Mr. KuNziG. I notice you are accompanied by counsel; will you 
state your name for the record ? 

Mr. Forer. Joseph Forer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Your office address? 

Mr. Forer. 711 14th Street NW., Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Clardy. You are the same person who appeared before us in 
other hearings, in Washington, particularly ? 

Mr. Forer. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you give your full name for the record, Mrs. 
Darling, please ? 

TESTIMONY OP BARBAEA ANN DARLING, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 

COUNSEL, JOSEPH PORER 

Mrs. Darling. My full name is Mrs. Barbara Ann Darling. 

Mr, Kunzig. What is your address ? 

Mrs. Darling. Temporarily at 59 West Ninth Avenue, Columbus. 



1784 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. KuNZiG. Could you give the committee a resume of your educa- 
tional background ? 

Mrs. Darling. Starting when ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, starting from high school. 

Mrs. Darling. I attended high school in Frontenac, Kans., for S 
years. The last year, I spent at Pittsburg High School in Pittsburg, 
Kans. 

I attended Kansas State Teachers College. 

Mr. KuNziG. What year was that ? 

Mrs. Darling. I don't recall the year ; it has been so long ago. 

Mr. KuNziG. I am sure not that long ago ? 

Mrs. Darling. Well, let me think. Possibly around in the sum- 
mer of 1936. However, I don't believe that I finished the quarter 
there, due to financial difficulties. Therefore, I don't think that they 
have a record of my having attended. I don't know about that. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you continue with your educational back- 
ground ? 

Mrs. Darling. Following that, I went to the University of Wiscon- 
sin. That was in the beginning — bygmning in the fall of 1946. I 
spent two semesters there, and then transferred to the Ohio State 
University in the fall quarter of 1947. 

I was at the Ohio State University from 1947 to 1951, with the ex- 
ception of one spring quarter which I spent at Mexico City College. 
That was the spring quarter of 1950. I received a bachelor of arts 
degree cum laude from the Ohio State University in the spring quar- 
ter of 1951. 

Mr. KuNziG. Does that conclude your formal education ? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Kunzig. Now, could you give us a detailed account of your 
employment record, where you have worked, giving us the dates, if 
you please, as you go along, to the best of your recollection. 

Mrs. Darling. As nearly as I can recollect, I worked in Chicago 
for the F. W. Wool worth Co. and for Marshall Field for a while, 
for the Walgreen Drug Store, and for the Montgomery Ward central 
time payment office in the Merchandise Mart there. Then I moved to 
Detroit, Mich. 

Mr Kunzig. When was that? 

Mrs. Darling. It seems to me that that was in 1937, in the latter part 
of the year, and I was employed at the L. A. Young Co. there, and I 
worked there only, I would say, about a month and a half. I was not 
familiar with the layoffs, and so forth, the very frequent layoffs that 
occur in the automotive industry, so I was laid off, having been one of 
the last employed by that company. Then I worked wherever I could 
get a job, in supermarkets 

Mr. Kunzig. Wliere? 

Mrs. Darling. Supermarkets, working in supermarkets, in drug 
stores, and then I was employed with the Bull Dog Electric Co. 

Mr. Kunzig. Wlien was it you were employed by the Bull Dog 
Electric Co? 

Mrs. Darling. I don't recall the year at all. 

Mr. Kunzig. Was it 1945, 1950- can you approximate? 

Mrs. Darling. No, it was possibly around 1939 or 1940, perhaps. 

Mr. Kunzig. I see, you are taking this in chronological order, I 
assume ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1785 

Mrs. Darling. Yes; I can remember the places I worked chrono- 
logically, but I was never concerned about the dates when I worked 
some place. I didn't think it would ever be important to remember 
that, so I have not kept these things in mind. 

After that, I was employed by the United Electrical, Radio and 
Machine Workers of America, affiliated with the Congress of Indus- 
trial Organizations. 

Mr. Clardy. Pardon ; I heard you name the union, but I didn't get 
all of it, or what you were doing. Would you repeat that for me? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes, I will be glad to. It is the United Electrical, 
Radio and Machine Workers of America. 

Mr. Clardy. You were employed in what capacity ? 

Mrs. Darling. As a field organizer by that organization. 

Mr. Clardy, Can you give us some approximation of the time ? 

Mrs. Darling. The time, I would say it was possibly late in 1942 
or early in 1943. 

Mr. Clardy. This vras in Detroit ? 

Mrs. Darling. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. How long were you working with the UE? 

Mrs. Darling. Again, I don't recall the exact date. I would say 
it — I worked there possibly up to around 1944 or 1945. 

Mr. Kunzig. Who was your district director, if you recall ? 

Mrs. Darling. District director? 

Mr. Kunzig. Yes. 

Mrs. Darling. I don't know if we had an office of that nature. 

Mr. Kunzig. Do you recall who was your direct employer ? 

Mrs, Darling. The international union. 

Mr. Kunzig. The name of the person under whom you worked 
directly. 

Mrs. Darling. Well, I was employed by the international union in 
New York, I think it is located. 

Mr. Kunzig. You had no single boss over you, so to speak, anywhere 
along the line ? 

Mrs. Darling. Not that I recall. We were responsible to' the 
international union. 

Mr. Kunzig. You just walked in and reported somewhere to an 
"international union" ? There must have been a person. 

Mrs. Darling, We reported our activities to the international union. 

Mr. Kunzig. To what person did you report ; the human being ? 

Mrs. Darling. Oh, let's see 

Mr. ScHERER. Who was your immediate superior ? 

Mrs. Darling. I am trying to think. That is what I am trying 
to think. 

Well, there is an office called secretary and treasurer and then there 
is one called organization director. We reported to the organiza- 
tional director of the international union. 

Mr. Kunzig. And who was that ? 

Mrs. Darling. His name, as I recall it now, I believe was Mr. Matles. 

Mr. Kunzig. Eben Matles or James Matles ? 

Mrs. Darling. James Matles. 

Mr. Kunzig. Who, Mrs. Darling, from the Detroit area, recom- 
mended that you be placed on the payroll there as an organizer? 

Mrs. Darling. I don't recall who recommended me. 



1786 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Would it have been Matles ? 

Mrs. Darling. No, I don't think it was. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, you know, of course, that the UE was expelled 
from the CIO because of Communist domination, do you not? 

Mrs. Darling. I read in the paper that it was expelled from the 
CIO. 

Mr. Kunzig. That is all you know about it ? 

Mrs. Darling. That is all I know about it. 

Mr. Kunzig. Would you continue, then, with your record of em- 
ployment ? You are up to 1944 or 1945, working for the UE. 

Mrs. Darling. Then I went to work as a secretary in the [Interna- 
tional] Fur and Leather Workers' Union in Detroit. 

Mr. Kunzig. When was that ? 

Mrs. Darling. That was after I left the UE and went to work. I 
don't remember the exact time it began there, sometime in 1945, I 
would say. 

Mr. Kunzig. Now, you know, of course, don't you, that the Fur and 
Leather Workers' Union also was expelled from the CIO union or 
organization ? 

Mrs. Darling. I read about that in the papers. 

Mr. Kunzig. Do you know any more than just what you read ? 

Mrs. Darling. No. 

Mr. Clardy. You mean you didn't even hear it talked about in 
circles where you were working ? 

Mrs. Darling. Well, I was in the university then. I don't re- 
member when they were expelled, but I was not working with any 
labor organization then. I was a student, I believe, at the university. 

If you can tell me what year it was, I can tell you where I was at 
the time. 

Mr. Kunzig. Mrs. Darling, who was the district director there, 
if you remember ? 

Mrs. Darling. Where? 

Mr. Kunzig. In the Fur and Leather Workers' Union at Detroit. 

Mrs. Darling. I don't know that they have an office of district 
director. 

Mr. Kunzig. You don't know of any ? 

Mrs. Darling. No. 

Mr. Kunzig. Who was your immediate superior there ? 

Mrs. Darling. The head of the office where I was working was Mr. 
Harold Shapiro. 

Mr. Kunzig. Do you know Harold Shapiro to be a Communist 
Party member ? 

Mrs. Darling. I did not. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you know a Ben Gold ? 

Mrs. Darling. No, I don't know him personally. He is, though, the 
president — he was at that time the president of the Fur and Leather 
Workers Union. 

Mr. Kunzig. When were you married, Mrs. Darling? 

Mr. Forer. Do you mean to Mr. Darling? 

Mr, Kunzig. If there was a previous marriage, give us the date and 
your name under that marriage. 

Mrs. Darling. I don't know that that is important. 

Mr. Kunzig. I am sorry ; I can't hear you. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1787 

Mrs. Darling. I don't know that the name is important of that 
marriage. 

Mr. KuNziG. I feel the date is important. 

Mrs. Darling. January of 1939. 

Mr. KuNziG. Yon became then, Mrs. who ? 

Mrs. Darling. Mrs. Barbara Springer. 

Mr. KuNziG. And was that marriage severed by divorce or 

Mrs. Darling. It was. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you recall the date when that took place ? 

Mrs. Darling. No, I don't. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wlien did you become Mrs. Darling? 

Mrs. Darling. I became Mrs. Darling in 1946. 

Mr. KuNziG. In 1946? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know the date of the marriage ceremony in 
1946? 

Mrs. Darling. No, I don't. 

Mr. KuNziG. You mean you don't know your wedding date? 

Mrs. Darling. That is correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, Mrs. Darling, that is a little hard to imagine. 

Mr. ScHERER. Well, you have the certificate ; don't you ? 

Mrs. Darling. I don't think that matters. 

Mr. ScHERER. Ask her if that is the date. 

Mr. KuNziG. Could it have been the 24th day of August 1946? 

Mrs. Darling. I don't recall the date. 

Mr. KuNziG. Even if I refresh your memory, Mrs. Darling, and say 
that the certificate of marriage says : 

Between Mr. Byron Thorwell Darling and ]\Irs. Barbara Springer, I hereby 
certify in accordance with the above license the persons above-mentioned were 
joined in marriage at Clinton, County of Lenawee, Mich., August 24, 1946, in the 
presence of Mabel Van Dusen of Clinton, Mich., and Anna May Lockner of St. 
Petersburg, Fla. — 

And signed — "L. J. Van Dusen — justice, magistrate, or justice, 
Clinton, Mich. 

Does that refresh your memory ? 

Mrs. Darling. If that is the record. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have this marked "Mrs. Darling Exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. ScHERER. Well, if that is a certified copy, Mr. Counsel, just offer 
it in evidence. 

Mr, KuNziG. All right ; I offer it in evidence. Certified copy of the 
marriage license and certificate of marriage of Byron Thorwell 
Darling and Barbara Ann Springer, as Barbara Darling exhibit No. 1. 

Mr. ScHERER, It will be so received. 

(Barbara Darling exhibit No. 1 was marked for identification and 
received in evidence.) 

Mr. KuNziG. If this says August 24, you are saying, Mrs. Darling, 
that it probably was August 24 ? 

Mrs. Darling. Well, you have the record there. 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, but you were married ? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes, I know. 

Mr. Scherer. I think we have pursued that far enough, Mr. Counsel. 
The record speaks for itself. Proceed to the next question. 

Mr. Forer. What was that year? 

Mr. KuNziG. August, 24, 1946. 



1788 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. ScHEEER. Let's proceed, Mr. Counsel, with the next question. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I. would like to request a 5-minute 
recess. 

Mr. ScHEEER. We will have a 5-minute recess. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Mr. SciiERER. You may proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Darling, if you haven't stated for the record, 
will you state what type of work you did for the Fur and Leather 
Workers' Union, was it secretarial or organizational ? 

Mrs. Darling. I stated I was a secretary. It was just office work. 

Mr. KuNziG. You said you were secretary and v.hat, I am sorry, I 
didn't hear. 

Mrs. Darling. I was secretary there, it was office work. 

Mr. KuNziG. Office work? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. How long did you remain with the Fur and Leather 
Workers ? 

Mrs. Darling. Until July before leaving Detroit. 

Mr. KuNziG. What date was that? 

Mrs. Darling. I don't recall the date of leaving there. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, now, you are up to 1945 when you left the UE 
and went to the Fur and Leather Workers. How long did you work 
with them to the best of your memory ? 

Mrs. Darling. 1 would say it was — I can't give you the specific 
month. Probably the end of June or July of 1946. 

Mr. KuNziG. June or July of 1946 ? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. When you left Detroit, where did you go then ? 

Mrs. Darling. I went to Madison, Wis. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you work there ? We are still going through your 
working employment. 

Mrs. Darling. No; I didn't work there. I went to the university 
there. 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't hear that. 

Mrs. Darling. I went to the university at Madison. 

Mr. KuNziG. As a student ? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is there anything further which you wish to add to 
your employment record ? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes ; I worked after being a student at the university 
hospital part-time during my student days and after receiving my 
degree from the university, I became employed in the department of 
romance languages at the university as secretary of the department. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you speaking of Ohio State or AVisconsin ? 

Mrs. Darling. Ohio State. 

Mr. KuNziG. Ohio State? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Counsel, I am confused as to dates. 

Mr. KuNziG. I am, too. 

Will you give us, to the best of your knowledge, the dates? When 
you had gone to Madison, carry on from there, please. 

Mrs. Darling. I went to Madison in the fall of 1946 and returned to 
Ohio State, to Columbus, or came to Columbus, I should say, in the 
fall of 1947, and I became involved in the university then. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1789 

During my student work, I worked part time in the university hos- 
pital, and after receiving my degree, and also during my last year, 
1 worked part time in the department of romance languages. 

After receiving my degree, I became secretary in the department of 
romance languages. 

Mr. KuNziG. This is Ohio State ? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. May I inquire at this point, I am a little confused on 
dates yet, Mrs. Darling. I thought I understood you to say that you 
went to Wisconsin in July of 1946. Did I correctly 

Mrs. Darling. No ; I went to Wisconsin in — beginning in the fall 
term of 1946. 

Mr. Clardy. The documentary evidence dealing with your marriage,. 

1 think, was August of 1946. Now, did you go to Wisconsin imme- 
diately after the marriage or just before? 

Mrs. Darling. Afterward. 
Mr. Clardy. Just afterward? 
Mrs. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Then you stayed there approximately a year and came 
here to Columbus ? 

Mrs. Darling. I went to school at the University of Wisconsin for 

2 semesters and then I came to Columbus. I arrived in Columbus 
in the summer of 1947 and I began my studies at the Ohio State Uni- 
versity in the fall of 1947. 

Mr. Clardy. That clears it up. It was less than a year at Wiscon- 
sin before you came here? 

Mrs. Dari.ing. That is right. 

Mr. Clardy. Thank you. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Darling, turning back for a moment to the time 
that you were in Detroit, can you give us for the record, to the best of 
your memory, the residences or residence that you had during the 
time you were in Detroit ? 

Mrs. Darling. Well, I lived in a number of places. I recall hav- 
ing lived on East Forrest — I don't know the address there. I lived 
on Mitchell Avenue. 

Mr. Clardy. What is the last ? 

Mrs. Darling. Mitchell Avenue, and I lived on Sylvester Street. 

Mr. Clardy. That is awfully difficult to hear for some reason or 
other. 

Mr. KuNziG. When you came to Columbus, you said you worked 
for a time in the university hospital here, is that correct? 

Mrs. Darling. That is correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever know a Thomas F. X. Dombrowski ? 

Mrs. Darling. I decline to to answer that question on the basis of 
my right on the first amendment and my privilege in the fifth amend- 
ment not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. KuNziG. In other words, you feel that in some way by answer- 
ing whether or not you knew Thomas F. X. Dombrowski, you might 
incriminate yourself? 

Mrs. Darling. I might incriminate myself. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know him to be the editor of the publication 
Glos Ludowy ? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer the question for the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 



1790 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. Ktjnzig. Did you know Thomas F. X. Dombrowski to be a mem- 
ber of the Communist party ? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer the question for the same reasons. 

Mr. KuNziG. May I state for the record that Thomas F. X. Dom- 
browski, who has been identified as a Communist Party member, ap- 
peared before this committee and refused to answer the questions on 
the ground that he might incriminate himself. 

Mr. ScHERER. You say he has been identified ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. May I ask one question ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you know there was such a publication as that 
described by counsel? I am not asking about your connection with 
this man, but merely, did you have any knowledge about the 
publication ? 

Mr. FoRER. May we liave the name of that again ? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, I would like to have Mr. Kunzig repeat it. 

Mr. Kunzig. Glos Ludowy. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you know there was such a publication? 

Mrs. Darling. Well, I heard of the publication. 

Mr. Clardy. Thank you. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you know a Kuth Dombrowski ? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Kunzig. Is she the former wife of Thomas F. X. Dombrowski ? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Kunzig. I have a document marked "Barbara Darling, Exhibit 
No. 2," for identification, and I should like to ask Mr. Appell to show 
this to you. This is an employment application from the university 
hospital, and there is not a signature, but rather a printed name, 
Mrs. Ruth Dombrowski, on the back. I will ask you if that is correct, 
and if you see that name there (indicating) as a reference for your 
application for employment at the university hospital here at the 
Ohio State University ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Does the exhibit indicate, Mr. Counsel, that she (Mrs. 
Darling) gave this person as a reference ? 

Mr. Kunzig. The exhibit speaks for itself, sir. I will ask that 
the exhibit be passed up to you after it is identified. I don't have 
it in front of me now. 

Mr. Clardy. Is it an application for employment filed with the 
hospital here ? 

Mr. Kunzig. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Will you read the question, please, Mr. Reporter? 

(Last question was so read.) 

Mrs. Darling. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you know the Ruth Dombrowski whose name 
appears on the back of that document ? 

Mrs. Darling. What is the question, please? 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you know Mrs. Ruth Dombrowski whose name 
appears on the back of that document? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes, I did know her. 

Mr. Kunzig. Is Mrs. Ruth Dombrowski the Ruth Dombrowski 
who was the wife of Thomas F. X. Dombrowski ? 

Mrs. Darling. I decline to answer that question for the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1791 

Mr. KuNZiG. So you will go as far as admitting that you knew her 
but no further ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Counsel, I think she has answered. 

Mr. KuNziCx. Will you return that, please? 

Mrs. Darling, during the time you were in Detroit, were you a 
member of the First Congressional District Communist Party in 
Detroit? 

Mrs. Darung. I decline to answer that question for the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, are you a member of the Communist Party at 
this time ? 

Mrs. Darling. I decline to answer that question for the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. Kunzig. Were you ever or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Darling. I decline to answer that question for the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. Kunzig. Now, Mrs. Darling, this document marked "Barbara 
Darling, Exhibit No. 2," for identification which you have just looked 
at is not signed as such. Did you turn in this document as an appli- 
cation for employment at the university hospital ? Is this your appli- 
cation, in other words? 

Mrs. Darling. I made an application at the university hospital. 

Mr. Kunzig. Is this your application ? 

Mrs. Darling. I don't know that that particular one is, but I 

Mr. FoRER. Let us see it, please. 

Mr. Walter. It is a photostatic copy. 

Mr. Clardy. You understand. Witness, this is a photostatic copy 
of an original document ? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes, it seems to be. 

Mr. Kunzig. And did you give the name of Mrs. Dombrowski as a 
reference ? 

Mrs. Darling. It appears there that I did. 

Mr, Kunzig. Did you? 

Mrs. Darling. If that is the document, I suppose I did. It appears 
on the record. 

Mr. Clardy. Counsel, was this photostatic copy acquired from the 
hospital record ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes. 

Mr. Kunzig. Yes, it was. 

I have here in front of me a document marked "Barbara Darling 
Exhibit No. 3" for identification. This document is an oath of al- 
legiance executed by all officers, instructors, and employees of Ohio 
State University, marked "The Department of Hospital." I should 
like to read this into the record, what appears on this document : 

I, Barbara A. Darling, do solemnly swear or affirm that I will support and 
defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State 
of Ohio against all enemies, foreign and domestic ; that I will bear true faith 
and allegiance to the same ; that I take this obligation freely and without any 
mental reservations or for the purpose of evasion ; I will well and faithfully 
discharge the duties of the office or position of which I am employed, so help me 
God. 

I further swear or affirm that I do not advocate nor am I a member of any 
party or organization that advocates the overthrow of the United States Govern- 
ment or the Government of the State of Ohio by force or violence, and during 



1792 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

such time as I am an officer or instructor of Ohio State University, I will not 
advocate or become a member of any party or organization that advocates the 
overthrow of the Government of the United States or the State of Ohio by force 
or violence. 

The signature appears as Barbara A. Darling, sworn to this 29th 
day of June, 1949, Columbus, Ohio, before what looks like A. J. Tann, 
notary public. 

I would like to ask you, Mr. Appell, to show this "Barbara Darling 
Exhibit No. 3" to Mrs. Darling. 

I ask you, Mrs. Darling, whether you signed that docunnent of 
which this is a photostatic copj'. 

Mrs. Darlincx. Yes, I did. I signed this photostatic copy. I signed 
the original, rather. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Darling, I should like to ask you again if in 1949 
you made that statement and swore to it before a notary public, I 
will ask you today before a Committee of Congress of the United States 
of America, do you advocate or are you a member — and I use the exact 
words that appeared here in 1949, of any political party or organiza- 
tion that advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United 
States or the government of the State of Ohio by force or violence ? 

Mrs. Darling. I signed that oath and it is a true oath taken in good 
faith. I do not believe in force or violence and I have never used 
force in my life and I have never used violence. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, I ask you again to answer the question. Do 
you advocate or are you a member of any political party or organiza- 
tion that advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United 
States or the government of the State of Ohio by force or violence? 

I am asking you this in 1953, now, today. 

Mrs. Darling. I believe by my previous remarks I have said that I 
do not belong to unj organization that believes in the overthrow of 
the government by force or violence, that I am defending the Con- 
stitution. 

Mr. KuNziG. I asked you previously, I believe, whether you are 
now a member of the Communist Party, and you declined to answer, 
giving as your reason the fifth amendment. Am I correct in under- 
standing that you are saying as to this question that you do not belong 
to any organization that advocates the overthrow of the Governrpent 
of the United States by force or violence ? 

Mrs. Darling. That is true. 

Mr. KuNziG. Then, let me ask you again, are you now a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Darling. I decline to answer that question on the basis of the 
fifth amendment, not to be a witness against myself. 

Mr. KuNziG. Well, do you believe, Mrs. Darling, that the Com- 
munist Party is not out to overthrow the Government of the United 
States by force or violence ? 

Mrs. Darling. Would you repeat the question, please ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you believe that the Communist Party is not out 
to overthrow the Government of the United States by force or violence? 

Mrs. Darling. Do I believe it is not out to do that ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. 

Mrs. Darling. I don't know whether it is or not. 

Mr. KuNziG. You don't know ? 

Mrs. Darling. That is right. I don't have any evidence that it is 
not, and I have no evidence that it is. 



COMAIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1793 

Mr. KuNziG. I see. Have you lived in this country for the last 
10 years ? 

Mrs. Darling. Have I lived in this country for the last 10 years? 
I have lived in this country all my life, sir. I was born here. I have 
lived here all my life with the exception of a few months that I spent 
in Mexico. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you have no evidence today that the Communist 
Party is out to overthroAv the Government by force or violence? 

Mrs. Darling. I don't have any evidence one way or the other. 

Mr. ScHERER. I think the witness has answered that. We will not 
pursue that further, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you ever know a person by the name of Toby 
Baldwin or Bereniece Baldwin, the same person ? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you attend the 1944 convention of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. Kunzig. In Michigan, did you know the membership secretary 
of the Communist Party in Michigan ? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you know Toby Baldwin to be the membership 
secretarv of the Communist'Partv in Michigan ? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you knoAv Toby Baldwin as the person who 
checked the credentials at that convention in 1944 ? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. Walter. Where was the convention held ? 

Mr. Kunzig. In Detroit, Mich., sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Is Toby Baldwin known by any other name? My 
recollection is that her correct name is Bereniece. 

Let the record show that Bereniece Baldwin and Toby Baldwin are 
one and the same person. 

Mr. Clardy. The record should also show that she has been a wit- 
ness before this committee at the city of Detroit last fall. 

Mr. ScHERER. The record will so indicate. 

Mr. Kunzig. Were you ever a member of the Mid-Tow^n Club of the 
Communist Party in JDetroit, Mich ? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question on the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you ever know a Richard F. O'Hair? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question on the reasons stated 
before. 

Mr. Kunzig. Isn't it a fact, Mrs. Darling, that you were a member 
of the Communist Party cadre for the State of Michigan which passed 
on the admissibility of the party to become members of the party ? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question on the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. Kunzig. Were you in 1944 an officer of the Communist Party 
in Michigan? 



1794 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question on the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. ScHERER. What office does the record indicate she held? 

Mr. KuNziG. That will be developed as we go along. 

Mr. Clardy. Another witness will develop that ? 

Mr. KuNziG. It is coming right now. 

Were you a member of one of the convention committees at this 
convention held in Detroit? 

Mrs. Darling. 1 refuse to answer that question on the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. Kunzig. Isn't it a fact that you were not only a member, but 
a chairman of the resolutions committee and as such, an officer? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question on the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. Kunzig. Didn't you make a report as chairman to the entire 
convention on the resolutions to be adopted by the Communist Party 
convention ? 

Mrs. Darling. I refuse to answer that question on the aforemen- 
tion reasons. 

Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions at this 
time. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Clardy, do you have any questions ? 

Mr. Clardy. I have just 1 or 2. 

Counsel, did you develop the sequence of the residence in Detroit? 

Mr. Kunzig. She gave 

Mr. Clardy. The last one she named was, I recall, Sylvester Avenue. 
Was that intended to be the last place at which you lived ? 

Mrs. Darling. The last place at which I lived. 

Mr, Clardy. At Detroit? 

Mrs. Darling. In Detroit. As I recall, it was. It may not have 
been. 

Mr. Clardy. Giving approximations, how long did you live there^ 
working backward ? 

Mrs. Darling. I don't recall when I moved to that address. 

Mr. Clardy. One or two or three years ? 

Mrs. Darling. I don't have any recollection of how long I lived 
there. 

Mr. Clardy. None whatever? 

Mrs. Darling. None whatever. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, how long did you live at the place next to Syl- 
vester tliat you named ? I have forgotten the name of the street. 

Mrs. Darling. On Mitchell Avenue ? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes. 

Mrs. Darling. I don't recall. It was not important. 

Mr. Clardy. You don't recall that? 

Mrs. Darling. No. 

Mr. Clardy. And the same thing is true of the first place you 
named. 

Mrs. Darling. That is right. 

Mr. Clardy. But Sylvester was the last place you lived before you 
went to Wisconsin ? 

Mrs. Darling. That is right. 

Mr. Clardy. In Wisconsin, you lived in Madison? 

Mrs. Darling. Yes. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1795 

Mr. Clardy. Was it the city of Madison ? 

Mrs. Darling. That is correct. 

Mr. Clardy. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. "Walter? 

Mr. "Walter. No questions. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have one more question, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Scherer. "V^ery well. 

Mr. KuNziG. From the date of your marriage application which is 
the 19th day of August 1946, and it states the address as 7418 Syl- 
vester, Detroit 14, Mich. 

Mr. Clardy. What is that number again ? 

Mr. KuNziG. 7418 Sylvester Street, Detroit, Mich. 

From that date until the time you left Detroit, did you live con- 
tinuously at 7418 Sylvester Street ? 

Mrs. Darling. From what date? 

Mr. KuNziG. From the date of the application for your marriage 
license, which was the 19th day of August, 1946. 

Mrs. Darling. I don't recall whether I lived there continuously. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further questions, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. The witness will be excused. 

Take a 5-minute recess. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Mr. Scherer. Let the record show that the witnesses who have testi- 
fied in this hearing today are excused from their subpenas. 

Mr. Clardy. The first three, you mean ? 

Mr. Scherer. Those who have already testified. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, the next witness is Prof. Byron Thor- 
well Darling. 

Mr. Forer. May we record the usual objection? 

Mr. Scherer. The record may note your objection, Mr. Forer. 

Mr. Forer. Thank you. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Darling, will you stand and be sworn ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give to this sub- 
committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Darling. I do. 

Mr. Scherer. You may proceed. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Darling, I realize that you have testified, of course, 
before this committee, but to keep the record straight, I would like 
to ask your full name, for the record. 

TESTIMONY OF BYRON THOHWELL DARLING, ACCOMPANIED BY 

HIS COUNSEL, JOSEPH FORER 

Mr. Darling. Byron Thorwell Darling. 

Mr. Scherer. Pardon me just a minute ; let the photographers get 
their pictures and retire. 

Mr. KuNziG. And your present address, sir ? 

Mr. Darling. Temporarily living at 58 West Ninth Avenue, Co- 
lumbus, Ohio. 

Mr. KuNziG. Columbus, Ohio ? 

Mr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. You are represented by counsel ? 



1796 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Let the record note that the counsel is the same Mr. Forer who ap- 
peared for the preceding witness, Mrs. Darling. 

Professor Darling, would you state for the record your educational 
background ? 

Mr. Darling. Starting at high school ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, sir ; that would be fine. 

Mr. Darling. I graduated from Crane Technical High School in 
IQS'Q, and I went to the University of Illinois from 1930 to 1936, and 
I went to the University of Michigan from 1936 to 1938, and then I 
transferred to the University of Wisconsin in 1938 to 1939 and I got 
my doctor's degree from the University of Michigan in 1939, and then 
I went to the University — no, I think that was the educational 
background. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, then, state for the record, please, Professor Dar- 
ling, your employment record, taking it 3^ear by year and giving us to 
the best of your ability explicit dates. 

Mr. Darling. I was employed by Western Electric Co. from 1929 
to 1930, and at Michigan State College from 1939, 1 guess, in the fall 
or something like that, to 1941, and I worked for a summer session 
at Pennsylvania State College in 1941, and then I worked at the United 
States Rubber Co. from 1941 to 1946. 

Mr. Clardy. United States Rubber Co. from 1941 to 1946, at Detroit? 

Mr. Darling. United States Rubber Co. at Detroit; yes, sir; and I 
worked at the University of Wisconsin in the spring of — no, in the fall 
quarter of 1947, and at the Yale University in — pardon me; not the 
fall quarter; it was the fall semester, first semester for 1947 school 
year, and then the second semester at Yale University. Then I came 
to Ohio State University in the summer of 1947 and worked here until 
just recently. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Darling testified, I just want to get the record 
straight, that she had gone to Wisconsin just after your marriage in 
x4.ugust of 1946 ; namely in the fall of 1946. Did you go also in the 
fall of 1946? You just said 1947 in your testimony. You probably 
made an error ? 

Mr. Darling. I meant 1946. 

Mr. KuNZiG. I wanted to straighten out the record. 

Mr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you, then, concluded your employment record 
and places in which you have taught and worked ? 

Mr. Darling. I believe I have. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, I would like to turn to another phase or type of 
work. Professor Darling, and ask you if you have ever worked for the 
United States Government, in any way received pay from the United 
States Government ? 

Mr. Darling. Well, I have not worked directly for the United States 
Government. 

Mr. KuNziG. If you didn't work directly — I realize you didn't work 
directly for the United States Government, but have you ever worked 
indirectly for the United States Government, receiving pay which 
originated from the Government? 

Mr. Darling. Well, I worked on a Navy project at the University 
of Wisconsin, and Yale. That was in 1946-47. 

Mr. KuNziG. What type of project was that. Professor Darling? 

Mr. Darling. That Avas theoretical project in physics. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1797 

Mr. ScHERER. I didn't get the answer. 

Mr. Darling. Theoretical project in nuclear phj^sics. 

Mr. Scherer. That was the project for the Navy? 

Mr. Darling. For the Navy, yes. 

Mr. CluVrdy. Let's get a better description of that. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Could you go into more detail? 

Mr. Darling. That was an unclassified project. 

Mr. KuNziG. Unclassified project ; what type of work did you do? 

Mr. Darling. Theoretical work; theoretical work. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you continue, then? Did you ever work at any 
<other lime for the Government? 

Mr. Darling. Well, while at Ohio State University, I worked on an 
Air Force project which was an unclassified project and did work on 
the theory of the ozone molecule. 

Mr. KuNziG. The theor}- of the ozone molecule ? 

Mr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. How long a period of time did you work for the United 
^States Air Force, from what date to what date? 

Mr. Darling. I don't remember the initial date, but finally — I don't 
remember that exactly, but I believe it was some time after the hearing 
before this committee. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dr. Darling, have you ever traveled abroad, to Canada, 
for example i 

Mr. Darling. Yes, I have. 

Mr. KuNziG. When vras that, sir? 

Mr. Darling. As I remember, that was in the summer of 1949. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you explain to the committee your purposes for 
going to Canada? 

Mr. Darling. My purpose for going to Canada was to attend an 
lauroral conference. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you spell that for the reporter ? 

Mr. Darling. A-u-r-o-r-a-l. 

JNIr, Kfnzig. Would you explain to the committee what that con- 
ference was? 

Mr. Darling. That conference had for its purpose the study of the 
physics of the aurora ; in common parlance, that means northern lights. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did the United States Air Force sponsor this? 

Mr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did they sponsor you, or invite you? 

Mr. Darling. They invited me, I believe. 

Mr. Clardy. Did that have any connection with research into the 
weather ? 

Mr. Darling. No, I don't believe so. 

]Mr. Clardy. What aspect of research did that tie into ? 

Mr. Darling. It had to do with the aurora. 

Mr. Clardy. I understand that. I am trying to get the significance 
of exploring the northern lights as applied practically to today's 
problems. I apprehended the Air Force might be interested in the 
weather. 

Llr. Darling. Well, the physics of the upper atmosphere is very 
interesting. I don't know what particular interest the Air Force had 
in it. 

35663—53 5 



1798 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. Clardy. You didn't know what the work was going to be used 
for, if anything? 

Mr. Darling. Right. 

Mr. Clardy. My guess may be as good as anybody's ? 

Mr. Darling. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. So you attended this conference, Professor Darling, 
under the sponsorship of the United States Air Force ? 

Mr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, when you lived in Detroit, could you give us 
to the best of your memory the exact residence where you lived, the 
address, street, and so forth? 

Mr. Darling. I can only recollect that I lived at 7418 Sylvester. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you talking about Detroit ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes. How long did you live at 7418 Sylvester? 

Mr. Darling. I don't remember that. 

Mr. Clardy. Was it a matter of just a few days or weeks, or what? 

Mr. Darling. It was my last address, I believe. 

Mr. Clardy. Approximately, then, can you tell us when you moved 
there, with reference to something that may have happened? 

Mr. Darling. No, I am sorry ; I can't. 

Mr. Clardy. Was it more than a year ? 

Mr. Darling. I wouldn't be able to state. 

Mr. Clardy. You can't come within a year or 2 years of the length 
of time ? 

Mr. Darling. No ; I am sorry. 

Mr. Kunzig. Do you recall any other addresses in any other streets 
in Detroit ? 

Mr. Darling. No, I don't. 

Mr. Kunzig. Were you present in the courtroom when your wife 
testified a few moments ago ? 

Mr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you hear her mention other streets? I thought 
that might have refreshed your memory. 

Mr. Darling. Yes, I heard her mention other streets. 

Mr. Kunzig. Do you recall them, or not ? 

Mr. ScHERER. I think the witness has said he doesn't recall. 

Mr. Kunzig. All right. 

Mr. Clardy. If you don't mind, Mr. Chairman, I want to ask it 
this way. Was that the only address at which you lived in Detroit? 

Mr. Darling. No. 

Mr. Walter. Why don't you tell him where he lived and lead him ? 
This is a regular proceeding, and ask him if that is a fact. 

Mr. Scherer. Would this be a convenient point for you to stop 
this evening, Mr. Counselor ? 

Mr. Kunzig. Yes, Mr. Chairman, if you so desire, we can stop right 
now and commence tomorrow. 

Mr. Scherer. The committee will recess until 9 : 30 tomorrow 
morning. 

(Whereupon, at 4 p. m., the hearing was recessed until 9 : 30 a. m., 
Thursday, June 18, 1953.) 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 

COLUMBUS, OHIO, AKEA 



THURSDAY, JUNE 18, 1953 

United States House of Eepresentatives, 

Subcommittee of the Committee 

ON Un-American Activities, 

Colurribus^ Ohio. 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to adjournment, at 9 : 30 a. m., in hearing room 2, State 
Office Building, Columbus, Ohio; Hon. Gordon H. Scherer, acting 
chairman, presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Gordon H. Scherer, 
Kit Clardy, and Francis E. Walter. 

Staff members present: Robert L. Kunzig, counsel; Donald T. 
Appell, investigator ; and Thomas W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk. 

Sergeant-at-arms : Claude Woodward. 

Present as invited guest-observers: Hon. Samuel Devine, member 
of the Ohio Legislature and chairman of the Ohio Commission on 
Un-American Activities; and Sidney Isaacs, counsel for the Ohio 
Commission on Un-American Activities. 

Mr. Scherer. The committee will be in session. 

Is counsel ready to proceed ? 

Mr. Kunzig. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. Dr. Darling, this morning the members of the com- 
mittee would like to ask you some questions. Dr. Darling, you testified 
before the House Committee on Un-American Activities at Washing- 
ton on March 12 and 13 of this year, did you not ? 

TESTIMONY OF BYRON THORWELL DARLING, ACCOMPANIED BY 
HIS COUNSEL, JOSEPH FORER— Resumed 

Dr. Darling. I believe so. 

Mr. Kunzig. And at that time, of course, your testimony was given 
under oath ? 

Dr. Darling. Right ? 

Mr. Kunzig. Is that right ? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. Subsequent to your appearance before the committee 
in Washington, there was a hearing held at Ohio State University in 
which you were involved ; is that right ? 

Dr. Darling. That is correct. 

1799 



1800 CORIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. ScHERER. And that hearing was before President Howard Bevis 
of the university ? 

Dr. Darling. That is correct. 

Mr. Scherer. xVnd that hearing grew out of the testimony you had 
given before this committee ? 

Dr. Darling. That is correct. 

Mr. Scherer. In Washington ? 

Dr. Darling. That is correct. 

Mr. Scherer. Now for that hearing before the university you had 
prepared with the help of j^oiir counsel, a formal statement, did 
you not? 

Dr. Darling. Correct. 

Mr. Scherer, And that formal statement consisted of about 14 type- 
written pages ; is that correct ? 

Dr. Darling. Something like that. 

Mr. Scherer. And at the hearing before President Bevis in April, I 
believe you read that statement as part of your testimony ? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. And about the time of the hearing, that statement to 
which I refer was circulated under a cover letter of Professor Harris 
of the university to various members of the faculty, was it not ? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, when you appeared before President Bevis at 
your hearing, you testified, but not under oath ; is that right ? 

Dr. Darling. That is correct. 

Mr. Scherer. And the statement to which you have just referred 
which was circulated by Professor Harris at the university, that state- 
ment was not signed by you; is that correct? 

Dr. Darling. That is correct. 

Mr. Scherer. This statement you had prepared for presentation at 
the time of your hearing before President Bevis was prepared in an 
attempt to hold your position on the faculty of Ohio State Univei'sity, 
was it not ? 

Dr. Darling. I was defending myself against charges and the an- 
swer is yes. 

Mr. Scherer. I understand. 

Now, you did not see fit, however, to make that statement in affidavit 
form, did you ? Do you understand my question ? 

Dr. Darling. Nobody asked me to, and I saw no reason to. 

Mr. Scherer. But that statement was the explanation of testimony 
you had given before the House committee under oath, was it not? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. And you say in that statement that it was prepared 
with the help and advice of your counsel ? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. And you say it was never suggested or the thought 
never came to you that it should be put in affidavit form ; is that right? 

Dr. Darling. Well, this was an administrative hearing. 

Mr. Scherer. Well, now, on page 8 of that statement you say this : 

I am not and never have been a member of the Communist Party or any 
organization which, to my knowledge or belief was affiliated or connected with the 
Communist Party. 

Now, Dr. Darling, when you made that statement to the officials 
of Ohio State University, will you tell us whether or not that was a 
true or false statement? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA ISOl 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the following 
reasons: First, I agree with one of my fellow physicists, one of the 
greatest living physicists, Prof. Albert Einstein, that one should re- 
fuse to answer questions before these political inquisitions and second, 
on the privilege of the fifth amendment that one may not be made to 
testify against himself. 

Mr. ScHEREE. Well, you are then refusing to tell the committee for 
the reasons you have stated whether or not you told President Bevis 
the truth or not ; is that right ? 

Dr. Darling. I am refusing to answer the question for the stated 
reasons. 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't hear your answer. Will you repeat it ? 

Dr. Darling. I am refusing to answer for the stated reasons. 

Mr. Clardy. The same reasons just given ? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. Dr. Darling, when you testified before this commit- 
tee on March 12 and 13 of this year, I am going to ask you whether or 
not this question was not asked you by Mr. Eussell of the staff : "Mr. 
Darling, are you now a member of the Communist Party?'' and if you 
did not answer, "I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons," 
namely, the reason you had stated previously, that you refused to an- 
swer a pi-evioiis question on the ground that it might tend to incrimi- 
nate you. 

I am going to ask you whether that question which I just read to 
you and the answer which I just read was asked by Mr. Kussell and 
that answer given ? 

Dr. Darling. Well, I don't know who asked the question. 

Mr. ScHERER. Irrespective of who asked the question, was not that 
question asked you and that answer given ? 

Dr. Darling. Well, there was some — yes. 

Mr. Sciierer. In view of the statement which you made within 
a few days after that hearing to the president of Ohio State Uni- 
versity that you were not a member of the Communist Party, I am 
now going to repeat tliat same question and ask you. Dr. Darling, are 
you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the same reason. 

Mr. ScHERER. I am going to ask you if at the hearing in Washington 
to which we have referred, whether or not you were asked this 
question: "Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?", 
and if you did not answer, "I refuse to answer that question for the 



same reasons." 



Dr. Darling. I believe that was asked. 

Mr. ScHERER. In view of your statement to which I have referred. 
I am going to ask j^ou that same question now under oath : Have you 
ever been a member of the Communist Party? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the reasons that 
I gave here today. 

Mr. ScHERER. Then, Mr. Kearney of the committee asked you if you 
were not a member of the Communist Party, would you so state, and 
your answer at that time: "I refuse to answer that question for the 



same reasons." 



Was that question asked you and that answer given by you at that 
hearing ? 

Dr. Darling. I believe so. 



1802 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, Dr. Darling, I am going to put that question 
again to you here in view of your statement. If you were not a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party, would you so state ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. ScHERER. I am going to ask you if this question wasn't asked 
you : "Were you ever a member of the Mid-Town Club of the Com- 
munist Party in Detroit?" And your answer before the committee 
was, "I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons." 

Dr. Darling. That is correct. 

Mr. Sciierer. Now, again, in view of your statement, I ask : Were 
you ever a member of the Mid-Town Club of the Communist Party 
in Detroit? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. I am going to ask you whether or not this question 
wasn't asked you : "Were you ever a member of the First Congres- 
sional District branch of the Communist Party in Detroit, Mich.?" 
And your answer at that time was, "I refuse to answer that question 
for the same reasons." 

Dr. Darling. That is correct. 

Mr. Scherer. And I am going to ask you now, in view of your state- 
ment to President Bevis : Were you ever a member of the First Con- 
gressional District branch of the Communist Party in Detroit, Mich. ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. In order to save time, I will state for the record that 
the questions I am about to ask Dr. Darling were asked him at the hear- 
ings in Washington and the answers were given by him. 

I am going to ask you now. Dr. Darling, while you were at Yale 
University, were you ever a member of any branch of the Communist 
Party? 

Dr. Darling. T refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. KuNziG. While you were employed at Michigan State, did you 
engage in the distribution of Communist Party literature? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Scherer. Have you ever acted as an agent for the Communist 
Party? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. Have you ever transferred any information that was 
in your possession to officials of the Communist Party ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. If you never transferred any such information, would 
you so state ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. Are you engaged in Communist Party activities at 
the present time? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. Have you ever received from the Communist Party 
any directives to do or to refrain from doing any specific thing? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. So that the record may be clear, let it indicate at 
this point again that I am reading the same questions that were asked 
Dr. Darling at the hearing in Washington. 

Mr. Kunzig. Have you ever received any funds from the Commu- 
nist Party ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1803 

Mr. ScHERER, Are you a member of any Communist organization at 
Ohio State University at the present time? Of course, you couldn't 
be at the present time, but that question was asked you. Were you 
prior to your dismissal from Ohio State University a member of any 
Communist Party organization at Ohio State University? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you know whether there is such an organization 
at Ohio State University at the present time ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. Is there a cell of Communist Party members composed 
of professors and instructors at Ohio State University at this time? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. Let the record show that I am reading from the official 
transcript of the hearing held in Washington on INIarch 12th and 13th. 

Have you ever received any compensation or anything of value from 
the Communist Party at any time ? 

Dr. Darling. No. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you ever make any contributions to the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Walter. In other words, you will answer the question that you 
never received anything, but the question as to whether or not you gave 
anything, you will not answer ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Scherer. Have you written any books or pamphlets which have 
been published by any group or organization? 

Dr. Darling. By any group or organization ? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. 

Dr. Darling. Would you refer to papers published in professional 
societies ? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. 

Dr. Darling. Yes, I have written a number of papers and some of 
them — well, let's take the paper on the theory of water molecule, is 
one of the fundamental papers in the field, and I am very proud of 
that paper. 

I have also been engaged in working on the theory of elementary 
particles in fundamental length. I published a paper on that in 1950, 
and I have been interrupted in that work by the hearings of this 
committee. 

I had a series of papers on the subject ready to prepare for publica- 
tion. I had the first one practically finished and I have not been able 
to return to it, and this work is very fundamental in the fact that it 
has to do with the existence of the elementary particles, the values of 
their masses which some of these particles are well known for a long 
time, and others have been discovered in the cosmic rays. I predicted 
the existence of many of these particles and the experimental work in 
cosmic rays seems to indicate that there are these particles. 

Mr. Scherer. It was in that field, was it, that you were doing 
research for the United States Air Force at Ohio State? 

Dr. Darling. No, that was not. I was working on the theory of the 
ozone molecule, and that is a later type of work in the same type of 
field that I did the work on the water vapor molecule, the ozone 
molecule. It is a very nice molecule that had some new things in it, 



1804 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

some new things for the theoretical development and understandings 
This work has also been interrupted. 

The Air Force was very much interested in this, and I think that 
that is one of the type of things that this committee in its actions does 
not take into accoimt, that although this was classified work, was very 
important work and a fundamental theory, and if this type of work 
doesn't go on, it is going to lead to a restriction of the growth of science 
in this country. 

Mr. SciiERER. "We realize that you are a very capable physicist and 
evidently, because you were a capable physicist, you were doing work 
for the United States Air Force, but my question is now, Have you 
ever published any writings for the Communist Party ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. SciiERER. Have you ever used — have you ever published any 
writings under any other name tlian Darling ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.- 

Mr. ScHERER. Isn't it a fact that you have ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. ScHERER. Let me finisli. I am sorry. Isn't it a fact that you 
have written articles for the Communist Party under another name? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. SciiERER. As well as under your own name ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. SciiERER. Now, has anyone ever shoAvn you any information 
pertaining to classified contracts of the armed services. 

Dr. Darling. Information pertaining to classified contracts'? 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes ; I might in fairness say, in Washington that same 
question was asked you, and you refused to answer. 

Dr. Darling. Well, I would like to state to this committee and tO' 
the audience and the television audie.nce that to the best of my knowl- 
edge, I have never been in possession in any form of any secret or classi- 
fied material, and I would like to further state that there are no secrets 
of that nature. There is nothing in the world 

Mr. SciiERER. There are secrets of the Federal Government, aren't 
there, classified secrets at the present time ? 

Dr. Darling. Yes, but there are no secrets of that nature. Nothing 
that cannot be — with ingenuity, inventiveness, discovered. 

Mr. Clardy. Then you don't tliink any of the secrets of the atom 
bomb were stolen and given to Hussia ? They would have discovered 
that themselves without any help from their spies, is that what you 
mean ? 

Dr. Darling. I didn't mean that at all. 

Mr. Clardy. It sounded like it. 

Mr. ScHERER. Dr. Darling, I am going to pass to another pliase of 
this investigation, one that wasn't touched upon in Washington. Do- 
you know Kobert H. Bush ? 

Dr. Darling. Kobert H. Bush? 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes. 

Dr. Darling. I don't recall. 

Mr. Sc MERER. W^ell, maybe we can refresh your recollection. Isn't 
Robert H. Busli now a rather well-known professor of psychology at 
Harvard University ? Does that refresh your recol lection ? 

Dr. Darling. I don't know. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1805 

Mr. ScHERER. Maybe we can go a little further. Isn't it a fact that 
jou knew Robert H. Bnsh very well at Michigan State University 
when you were at Michigan State College when you were teaching 
there in 1939 and 1940, and he was a graduate student? 

Dr. Darling. Yes ; I knew him. 

Mr. ScHERER. Well, let's see what Dr. Bush says about it. Dr. Bush, 
let the record show, testified before this committee less than a month 
ago, on May 25, 1953, and Dr. Bush was under oath, and Mr. Tavenner 
asked him these questions : 

What is your name? 

Answer. Robert H. Bush. 

Question. And what is your profession? 

Answer. I am an assistant professor at Harvard University. 

Question. In wliat field are you working? 

Answer. I am in the social relations department and I teach psychology. 

Then Mr. Appell of the staff asked this question : 

Pi-ofessor Bush, during the days you were a student at Michigan State, did you 
know Byron Thorwell Darling? 
Answer. Yes, I did know him. 

Now, isn't it a fact that you became acquainted with Dr. Bush while 
both of you were members of a Communist group at Michigan State, 
which group was composed largely of students and a few professors? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, let's see what Professor Bush says about that in 
his testimony. 

Mr. Appell asked : 

How did you first become acquainted Avith Byron Darling? 

Answer. I am afraid I don't recall the precise circumstances but it was through 
:a group of undergraduates who I knew at the time had formed a sort of political 
discussion group. It was through this group that I met Mr. Dai-ling. 

Question. This political discussion group with which you became affiliated, 
was it a group that discussed all political phases, or did it specialize? 

Answer, It was quite specialized. It was concerned with leftists' political 
discussions. My recollection is very poor, but I think it was more toward the 
Communist Party. We discussed literature put out by the Communist Party, 
identified as Communist Party literature. Some of the stuff we discussed was, 
I don't recall anything having been published by the Socialist Party that we read. 

Question. Did the group also discuss literature circulated by the Young Com- 
munist League? 

Answer. Yes, I believe I remembered seeing the name Young Communist League 
on something printed. 

Mr. Appell then asked Mr. Bush : 

When did Byron T. Darling become known to you and how did he become 
known to yon'i 

Answer. I can't recall, but I distinctly remember his having attended some 
•of the meetings later on. 

Is that testimony of Dr. Bush true? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. PcHEEKR. Now, isn't it a fact, Dr. Darling, that you were the 
person who led the discussions of this Communist group at Michigan 
State, and isn't it a fact that you were the dominant party at these 
meetings? 

Dr. Dari.ing. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, Mr. Appell asked Professor Bush : 

When Professor Darling attended the meetings of this group, did he attend as 
■another member or was his connection more formal than that? 



1806 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Answer. I don't recall that Darling was in any particular capacity, except that 
since he was one of the faculty members that attended these meetings, he seemed 
to frequently take a leading role in the discussions. He seemed to be the au- 
thority on a number of points that were being discussed. It is only in this way 
that I recall he was in a special role. My recollection is that when he attended 
the meetings, he was the dominant person in the discussion. 

Then the next question by Mr. Appell : 

When Darling was not leading the discussion, who would assume the leader- 
ship role in the discussion? 

Answer. Well, my recollection is that it was Charles Gainor who was the 
next most dominant person in the group as far as discussions were concerned. 

Now, would you care to comment on that testimony of Dr. Bush, 
which I just read, as to whether it is true or false? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, did you know Gainor ? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. Dr. — his name is Charles Gainor; isn't that right? 

Dr. Darling. That is correct. 

Mr. ScHERER. And Dr. Gainor now is teaching at Pittsburgh Uni- 
versity, did you know that ? 

Dr. Darling. No, I didn't know that. 

Mr. ScHERER. Well, Dr. Gainor was at your home on New Year's 
Day as late as January 1, 1948, wasn't he, stayed at your home over- 
night? You stayed at Gainor's home; I am sorry. You stayed at 
Gainor's home in Michigan, do you recall that ? 

Dr. Darling. Well, I wouldn't be certain about the date, but that 
may be. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, you knew Dr. Gainor as a member of the Young 
Communist League when he was at Michigan State while you were 
there and he was a member of this group and was second in command 
with you, did you not? 

Dr. Darling. 1 refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. ScHERER. Well of course, Dr. Gainor was a little more frank 
with the committee. Dr. Darling. 

Dr. Gainor just appeared before the committee and under oath 
testified on May 27 : 

Question. Mr. Gainor, will you state your full name and present address? 
Answer. Charles Gainor, 4111 Aliquippa treet, Pittsburgh, Pa. — 

He then tells of his educational background, he has a Ph. D. in 
philosophy, which he received from Michigan State. 

Question. What is your status on the faculty of the University at Pittsburgh 
at the present time? 
Answer. Associate professor. Department of Biological Sciences. 

Didn't you know that he was at Pittsburgh? Your families ex- 
change Christmas cards, do they not? 
Dr. Darling, I don't recall. 
Mr. ScHERER. You don't recall ? 
Dr. Darling. No. 
Mr. ScHERER. Well, he tells about that : 

Question. Professor Gainor, J hand you a photograph and ask you if you can 
identify that, the individuals shown there? 
Answer. Yes, that is Dr. Darling. 
Question. Do you know Dr. Darling? 
Answer. Yes, I know him. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1807 

Let's see where he admits that he is a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Appell asked him : 

Professor Gainer, you were interviewed by me on May 18 of this year, and 
during the course of the interview you voluntarily admitted for a period of time 
you held membership in the Young Communist League and the answer was yes? 

Now, I don't recall what your answer was to my question as to 
whether you remember Dr. Gainor staying at your home as late as — 
Mr. Clardy corrects me, you did recall that he stayed at your home, 
but didn't recollect the date ? 

Dr. Darling. No, the other way around. 

Mr. ScHERER. I am sorry ; I am still confused. You stayed at Dr. 
Gainor's home in Michigan ; is that right ? 

Dr. Darling. That is right. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, getting back to Michigan State, Dr. Darling, 
isn't it true that this Communist group first met on Michigan State 
campus and then moved over to a private residence on the west side of 
Lansing that was a considerable distance from the campus to the 
home of Frank and Goldie Kieger, of 401 Beaver Street, Lansing, 
Mich., and isn't it at that home that you presided over these meetings? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, let's see what Dr. Bush has to say about those 
meetings. On page 14 of the transcript of Dr. Bush's testimony. May 
27, we find Mr. Appell asking him this question : 

Then, when the meetings were moved from East Lansing, where were they 
moved to, according to your recollection? 

Answer. My recollection is that they were at some rather remote section of 
Lansing, not East Lansing, at the home of a man and wife whose name I am not 
sure I ever knew. They were seldom at home when we met there. I don't recall 
their names. I don't recall the street. 

Now, does that refresh your recollection ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. ScHERER. Would you say that Dr. Bush's testimony is true or 
false? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 
_ Mr. ScHERER, Well, now. Dr. Darling, isn't it a fact that the activi- 
ties of this group at Michigan State were clouded in secrecy and isn't 
it a fact that they were clouded in secrecy because you were connected 
with the group, and you. were a member of the faculty ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, let's look at Dr. Bush's testimony with refer- 
ence to that : 

I frequently had experience, when I was in the group, as I recall, of not know- 
ing everything that was going on, so to speak. Many things were sort of clouded 
in secrecy. 

Then Mi-. Appell asked him, and it will be noted that that was a 
voluntary remark on the part of Bush that they were clouded in 
secrecy. Mr. Appell properly followed with this question : 

Can you recall some of the things that were clouded in secrecy? 

and Mr. Bush replied — 

I recall having been warned from time to time to not too openly discuss the ac- 
tivities of this group, especially Darling's connection with the group. I assumed 
that was because he was a faculty member and his association with the group 
might not be viewed with much favor from the college administration. 



1808 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Now, would ^ou say Dr. Bush's testimony in that respect is true 
or false? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, let's see, Dr. Darling. Isn't it a fact that this 
group at Michigan State engaged in two types of activities and that 
you participated in the first type of these activities and couldn't par- 
ticipate in the second type of activities that I am going to outline to 
you, because you were a member of the faculty; that you and Dr. 
Gainor had the students participate in the second classification to 
wliich I am going to refer was not the first activity reading and 
discussing Communist literature and the history of the Communist 
Party of Soviet Russia. Isn't that the first activity in which thiy 
group was engaged ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, let's see again what Professor Bush has to say 
about that. 

Question. Now, you can recall that some material discussed by this group was 
material issued by the Young Communist League? 

Answer. I think so. Yes ; materials published by the Young Communist League, 
if they publish material, at least it bore their name. 

Question. You also can recall this group discussed literature prepared by the 
Communist Party? 

Answer. Yes; I recall the official history of the Communist Party of the 
U. S. S. R. I believe it was published by the Communist Party. It had a red 
cover. 

Question. That would be the constitution of the Communist Party of the Soviet 
Union? 

Answer. I don't recall whether it contained the constitution. I think they 
called it a history. 

Would you say that testimony is true or untrue, Dr. Darling ? 

Dr. Darling. "I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, the second type of activity in which this group 
engaged was just a little more spectacular, was it not. Dr. Darling? 
Isn't it a fact that after these meetings in which you were the dominant 
person that the group would go out at midnight through Lansing and 
East Lansing and put Communist literature on the doorsteps ; wasn't 
that one of the activities? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. ScHERER. Don't you remember in connection with the peace 
drive that this group did the rather foolish thing of making white 
crosses and placing them along the road in accordance with the party 
line at that time? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. SciiERER. Well, now, do you recall when this group went down 
to Washington and staged a sitdown strike on the front steps of 
the Capitol ? I am not saying you "went, but do you remember that? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Walter. Now, may I interrupt, Mr. Chairman, at this point? 
What criminal prosecution do you think you could be confronted with 
because you ha])pen to know^ that some foolish students came to Wash- 
ington and sat on the steps of the Capitol ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Walter. Do you think, under the Constitution, you have a right 
to refuse to answer the question I have asked you because, to answer it, 
would be in effect, testifying against yourself in a criminal proceeding? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1809 

Dr. Darling. Well, some — the fifth amendment is sometimes inter- 
preted that way. 

Mr. Walter. Yon had better stick to your physics, Doctor. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. ScHERER. We can't have any demonstrations. This is a serious 
matter, ladies and gentlemen. We want no demonstrations pro or con. 

In connection with that last question that I asked you, Dr. Darling, 
and this is my last, with reference to the second type of activity in 
which this group was engaged, I want to read to you what Dr. Bush 
had to say about it. 

Question. "Was your group interested in the "Yanks are not coming" campaign, 
which was, of course, a part of the Couimunist Party line at that time? 

Mr. Bush. As I recall it, yes. I believe this trip to Washington I mentioned 
earlier had something to do with the peace and sitdown strikes in front of the 
Capitol. I recall one other incident which involved building and installing 
some white crosses in the boulevard in East Lansing. I believe it was Memorial 
Day and the point of the white crosses was connected with this peace drive. 

Question. Was it your group that made the crosses or had the crosses made? 

Professor Bush's answer. Yes. 

Now, Dr. Darling, do you remember the time that part of this group 
was arrested by the police in Lansing, Mich., after they engaged in an 
"anti"' demonstration against Gerald Smith, do you recall that? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Scherer. Wasn't that demonstration right after a meeting of 
your group « 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scherer. Now, let's read Dr. Bush's testimony with respect to 
this activity : 

Question. Did this group participate in the distribution of literature in Lansing 
or on the campus? 

Answer. I recall one instance when I stayed out one night distributing leaflets 
of some .sort about which I don't remember, but in the town of Lansing. It may 
have had something to do with the strike at the time. It may have had some- 
thing to do with this peace drive. I don't recall, but I do remember the r.ither 
adventurous entertainment of distributing leaflets in the middle of the uig'it on 
people's doorsteps. We may have distributed some literature on the campus, 
but I don't recall the incident. 

Now, Dr. Darling, you being a professor at Michigan State, you did 
not actually participate in these Communist activities, did you ? 
Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 
Mr. Scherer. Isn't it a fact, Doctor, that you led the discussion and 
planned these activities for the organization ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason- 
Mr. Scherer, Now, let's again and for the last time, see what Pro- 
fessor Bush says about it. Remember, he is in the psychology depart- 
ment at Harvard ? 

Mr. Appell, after he [Professor Bush] had testified about these 
various activities, namely, the sitdown event on the steps of the Capi- 
tol and distribution of literature and white crosses, and so forth, 
asked this : 

Can you recall Darling participating in that? 

Answer. I don't recall whether he did or not. My impression was that he was 
never active in the dirty work, he was only involved in the discussion and 
leadership. 

Would you say that that testimony of Dr. Bush was true or false? 
Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason- 



1810 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Clardy, do you have some questions ? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Chairman, before I undertake asking some questions I think 
that the committee ought to make it perfectly plain on the record that 
the two gentlemen from whose testimony you have read, namely, Pro- 
fessors Bush and Gainor, should have some explanation of the part 
they have played clearly set out. 

In other words, they have cooperated with the committee. They 
have been most helpful to the committee and to the Congress. Their 
testimony indicates quite clearly, that they have been, I think, fully 
conscious, since the days they were at the college in my hometown, of 
their duties and responsibilities as citizens, and this committee has 
expressed to them, and we should express it again here today, an 
earnest desire to help them in any way that we can to make sure there 
are no reprisals visited upon them. 

We understand that the colleges are willing to go along with us on 
that, and they have had nothing to do with our producing this testi- 
mony here today. 

I thought we ought to say that in justice to them. Do you have 
anything to add to that, Mr. Kunzig ? 

Mr. KuNziG. No. 

Mr. Clardt. Of course, the testimony demonstrates — you didn't 
get to that— that they severed all their connections with the party 
quite some time ago. 

Mr. ScHERER. I think that statement was necessary to be made by 
you, Mr. Clardy. Thank you for it. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, Mr. Witness, while you were at East Lansing, 
on the faculty of Michigan State College which, as you probably re- 
call, I advised you is about half a mile from my residence there in 
East Lansing, while you were there, did you know a man by the name 
of Edward Robert Gewirts? My pronounciation may be inaccurate, 
but the spelling is correct. Did you know such a man ? 

Dr. Darling. I don't recollect him. 

Mr. Clardy. You have no recollection whatever? 

Dr. Darling. No. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you remember that while you were on the faculty, 
this gentleman, and I hear counsel suggesting it is pronounced 
"Gewirts," but the spelling will govern it — -he was a student who cor- 
rected math papers for you ; does that refresh your recollection ? 

Dr. Darling. I don't remember any student that corrected mathe- 
matics papers for me. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, do you recollect whether the man I have named 
corrected the math papers for you, whether you recall him as a stu- 
dent or not? 

Dr. Darling. I don't recall anyone correcting mathematics papers 
for me. 

Mr. Clardy. I will again ask the question : Do you have any recol- 
lection, now that I have attempted to refresh your memory, any recol- 
lection whatever of the gentleman whose name I have read to you? 
I will help you a little more. This man was a member of the Com- 
munist cell to which you belonged, also. 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, let me tell you what the gentleman had to say 
about this same thing, on page 4 of an executive session hearing held 



COIMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1811 

before me at Lansing on Monday, ^une 8, this year, Mr. Appell, who 
sits on my right, asked: "You knew Byron Thorwell Darling?", and 
Dr. Gewirts answered, "Yes." 

Then the further question, "Was it in a period of time after Dr. 
Darling became affiliated with Michigan State College," and the an- 
swer was, "Yes." 

Does that refresh your recollection ? 

Mr. FoRER. The question is. Does that refresh his recollection of 
what ? 

Mr. Clardy. Whether he knew the gentleman or not. 

Mr. FoRER. Whether he knew Gewirts ? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes. 

Dr. Darling. I recall now that I knew a student by the name of 
Gewirts. 

Mr. Clardy. I thought you would. 

Now, that gentleman has testified, and I have the evidence before 
me here, that there was a Communist cell or a cell of Young Com- 
munist League or both, on the campus at Michigan State College at 
that time, and I asked him this question, "There was such a group 
and you and some of the same members that belonged to the on-campus 
group also belonged to the group that met off the campus?" And the 
explanation, that is the group that was involved in the questions asked 
bv the Chairman a few moments ago, and the doctor's answer was, 
"Yes." 

Now, is the testimony that this did exist both as an oncampus and 
an off campus group of which you were a member, is that testimony 
true or do you now state that it is not true ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Clardy. Doctor, this testimony was taken under oath by a man 
who cooperated with this committee. It is a matter now of record. 
Don't 3^ou think, sir, that you had better reconsider that answer and 
tell us now, since you have chosen when you were not under oath, 
to deny these things, to tell us what the real facts are ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, which answer do you want the public and this 
committee to accept, this answer you are now giving, or that which 
you gave to the president of the great university located here, that 
you were not a member of the party or any group connected with 
it ? Which of those two answers shall we believe ? 

Dr. Darling. I believe you are assuming that I gave two answers. 
1 didn't give this committee any answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, passing that for the moment, we will get back 
to it a little later. Do you recall two houses in Lansing where the 
group we have been discussing held meetings? Do you recall that 
there were two houses where the group met ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Clardy. And to assist you in your recollection, so that you may 
answer the further questions I am about to ask, I will ask if you know 
or knew a man by the name of Arthur Wright ? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. I recall a man by that name. 

Mr. Clardy. And where did you know him ? 

Dr. Darling. I — I knew him in East Lansing. 

Mr. Clardy. Was he a student at the college where you were teach- 
ing? 



1812 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. How long did you know him ? 

Dr. Darling. I don't remember. 

Mr. Clardy. When did you first get acquainted with him? 

Dr. Darling. I don't recall that. 

Mr. Clardy. Was it at about the time you came to the college at 
East Lansing? 

Dr. Darling. It could be. 

Mr. Clardy. I am not asking for "could-be's" ; is that the fact or 
not? 

Dr. Darling. Well, I say yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you know his wife, Lois? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you get acquainted with her about the same time- 
that you became acquainted with Mr. Wright? 

Dr. Darling. I don't recall — I don't recall. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you know where they lived ? 

Dr. Darling. I can't recall. 

Mr. Clardy. Does the address, 219 Hill Street, Lansing, refresh 
your recollection? 

Dr. Darling. No, it doesn't. 

Mr. Clardy. Isn't it a fact, Doctor, that you attended Communist 
or Young Communist League cell meetings at that address with Mr. 
and Mrs. Wright? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Clardy. Doctor, Dr. Gewirts has testified concerning these- 
meetings that you attended to this length, when we inquired where 
the meetings were held, "They were held at a house down in Lansing,. 
Mich., where Arthur Wright lived. There was a girl by the name 
of Lois Taft who lived there also." 

Now, did you know Lois Taft before she became Mrs. Wright? 

Dr. Darling. Yes, I believe so. 

Mr. Clardy. What is that? 

Dr. Darling. I believe so. 

Mr. Clardy. How long were you in East Lansing, connected with 
the college, all together? 

Dr. Darling. A little over a year. 

Mr. Clardy. You knew these people during that entire time, didn't 
you? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. And do you want this committee 

Dr. Darling. I wouldn't say the entire time. 

Mr. Clardy. There may be a feAv days left out, but substantially it 
was the entire period we have just discussed, wasn't it ? 

Dr. Darling. Well, about that. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you want to leave the impression with this conunit- 
tee that you never attended a Young Communist League meeting at 
219 Hill'Street, Lansing? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you know a women by the name of Goldie Gregu- 

rek? Do you know this woman, whom I shall call "Goldie" for short? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that (luestiou for the same reasons. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you know her husband, Frank? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1813^ 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer tJiat question for the same reasons, 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, I show yon a photostatic copy of an article out 
of the Lansing State Journal showing Frank Gregurek in a picture,, 
and ask you if you recognize the picture as the man Frank Gregurek 
about whom I have been inquiring ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Clardy. Look at the article and note that I believe it gives the 
address of 401 Beaver Street at Lansing, Mich. Is it there? It gives 
his place of employment, and I am not certain whether it has the 
address or not. Does it ? 

Mr. FoRER. No ; it has 700 Sharon Street. 

Mr. Clardy. That is a place of business, where he works. 

I am addressing myself to the doctor; do you see it there? 

Dr. Darling. I don't see it. 

Mr. Clardy. Does the address 401 Beaver Street refresh your recol- 
lection as to Avhere some of these meetings I have been discussing were 
held? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons- 
Mr. Clardy. To further refresh your recollection. Witness, I show 
you a photograph of the house in question. It has been put in evidence 
before us and I ask you, after looking at that, if you do not recognize 
that as the house where Frank and Goldie Gregurek lived; namely,. 
401 Beaver Street, Lansing, Mich. ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Ci^RDY. We have sworn testimony before us identifying that 
house and identifying that location as having been the places occupied 
by Frank and Goldie Gregurek, and they have themselves so admitted 
before us. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let the record show the picture of Gregurek is 3 for 
identification, and the house is 4 for identification. 

Mr. Clardy. It has been referred to before, but it is as w^ell to mark it 
here. Thank you, Mr. Counsel. 

Witness, did you know a William Martin w^hile you were at East 
Lansing? All my questions are dealing with that at the moment. 

Dr. Darling. Yes ; I knew William Martin. 

Mr. Clardy. William Martin has been identified in sworn testi- 
mony taken before us as a member of the Young Communist League 
cell to which you also belonged, according to the sworn testimony pre- 
sented by the several witnesses we have mentioned. 

Now, do you recall ever attending any of the meetings of the Young 
Communist League at either of the addresses I have included in pre- 
vious questions? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer the question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you know an Edward Simons ? 

Dr. Darling. Yes ; I knew an Edward Simons. 

Mr. Clardy. He was connected with the music faculty at the school, 
was he not? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Wlien did you last see Mr. Simons ? 

Dr. Darling. I don't recall. 

Mr. Clardy. Was it recently ? 

Dr. Darling. No ; it wasn't recently. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, did you see him within the last several years ? 

35663—53 6 



1814 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Dr. Darling. Well, I — the question is "the last several years." That 
is so indefinite, I would say perhaps yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Before I finish that line, I want to ask you this, to 
complete the picture : Haven't you had a phone conversation with him 
within the last 2 weeks concerning your appearance before this com- 
mittee and the appearance, of course, of Mr. Simons who has also 
appeared before the committee ? 

Dr. Darling. Not to the best of my recollection. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you had any communication with him directly 
or indirectly within the last 2 weeks ? 

Dr. Darling. Not to my recollection. 

Mr. Clardy. You haven't been in consultation by phone or other- 
wise with his attorney, with him, or anyone else concerning the ap- 
pearance of either of you two gentlemen before this committee ? 

Dr. Darling. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Clardy. Does the name Isadore Neeclleman refresh your recol- 
lection, and I will tell you that Mr. Needleman is an attorney for Mr. 
Simons and he has an office at 165 Broadway in New York City? 

Dr. Darling. No ; that doesn't refresh my memory. 

Mr. Clardy. As a matter of fact, witness, hasn't there been a frank 
discussion between you in which you have sought to have him refuse 
to testify concerning you before this committee? 

Dr. Darling. The answer to that, to the best of my knowledge, is no. 

INIr. Clardy. What do you mean "to the best of my knowledge"? 
You would surely know on a matter of that kind whether there has been 
such a conversation. 

Dr. Darling. The answer is "No." 

Mr. Clardy. I drop the 2-week limitation and ask you if at any 
time there has been such ? 

Dr. Darling. No. 

Mr. Clardy. At no time ? 

Dr. Darling. No. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, forgetting the 2-week limitation, have you had 
any contacts directly or indirectly at any time within the period of 
time that elapsed since you first appeared before this committee at 
Washington ? 

Dr. Darling. No. 

Mr. Clardy. None whatever ? 

Dr. Darling. None whatever. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, we go back to the line of inquiry that I was on 
earlier. Did you visit with Mr. Simons at some place in the Nation 
in the year 1946 ? 

Dr. Darling. Well, I don't recall. 

Mr. Clardy. What? 

Dr. Darling. I don't recall. 

Mr. Clardy. To help your recollection, wasn't it a meeting that took 
place in the New York City apartment of Mr. Simons ? 

Now, witness, I should tell you that this question is based upon 
sworn testimony taken before this committee. Think well before you 
answer. 

Dr. Darling. I am a friend of his, and I visited him there, but I 
don't remember the dates. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, it may have been about the time I indicated, the 
year 1946, then ; but you are not sure, is that right? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1815 

Dr. Darling. That is right. 

Mr. Clardy. All right. 

Did you at that time discuss the associations you had had together 
in the Young Communist League during the period you were at Mich- 
igan State College? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons.* 

Mr. Clardy. Now, Doctor, Dr. Gewirts was interrogated about the 
same subject that Bush and Gainor were interrogated about, and that 
is the part that you played in the Communist conspiracy or cell at 
East Lansing, and they liave testified, as you have heard here today, 
to the effect that you were sort of kept in the back room, so to speak. 
I want to read you some testimony on the same subject by Dr. Gewirts, 
and then ask you a question. [Eeading :] 

The impression I bad at this stage was that he [Dr. Darling] made a deliberate 
attempt not to be obvious at anj meetings. 

My question is. Is this sworn testimony given by the doctor true or 
ialse? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer tliat question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Clardy. At another place, I asked the witness Gewirts if it 
wasn't quite plain and obviously a fact that you not only were a Com- 
munist but that you had played cagey and didn't expose yourself to 
public gaze ; and, in answer to that, didn't he say "That is fair. I am 
trying to tell you exactly what happened," and he goes on to tell us, 
"That is exactly the way it happened." 

Now, are those words, those statements, by Dr. Gewirts true or false? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Clardy. By the way, did you know Peter Fagan who lived in 
East Lansing, who was a newspaperman working for one of the De- 
troit newspapers at this same time? 

Dr. Darling. Yes; I 

Mr. Clardy. What is that? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you remember his wife Sarah ? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you ever attend any Young Communist League 
meetings attended by either or both of those people ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons, 

Mr. Clardy. Now, Dr. Gewirts had something more to say about the 
subject of the teaching of music, and it was made quite plain in the 
sworn testimony that you actually complained that music was not 
written in a way to carry out the Soviet school of thought, and a ques- 
tion along that line was asked him, and he says, "Yes ; that was true." 
Is that testimony true or false ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Clardy. Then another question was brought out in Dr. Gewirts' 
testimony, and that was that you were a sort of supreme court in the 
Communist apparatus in the area there, and Mr. Appell, who sits on 
my right here, asked this question : "Would there have been any pos- 
sibility of the members of the unit going to Darling in order to have 
Darling put them straight as to what the correct line should be ?", and 
the answer, "Yes." 

Is that testimony true or false ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 



1816 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. Claedy. Now, yesterday, I sought to learn how long you had' 
lived at various places in Detroit, and during the recess overnight, I 
have been doing some checking. Isn't it a fact. Doctor, that you lived 
at the Sylvester Avenue address for somewhere between o and 4 years? 

Dr. Darling. Well, I don't know whether that would be the exact 
length of time or not. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you remember the name of a store there in Detroit 
called Himmelhoch's ? 

Dr. Darling. No. 

Mr. Clardy. You know there is such a store ? 

Dr. Darling. I know there is such a store ; yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you recall there was a credit application made for 
and on behalf of you in which it was asserted on February 7, 1946, that 
you had lived at this Sylvester Avenue address for a period of 3i/2: 
years prior to the date of the application for credit ? 

Dr. Darling. I don't remember that. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you remember that? 

Dr. Darling. No. 

Mr. Clardy. To get to the nubbin of it, isn't it a fact that you did 
live there for several years, at least? 

Will you mark this application as an exhibit? 

Mr. Kunzig. Darling exhibit No. 5, for identification. 

Mr. Clardy. Didn't you live there for several years, at least ? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Sciierer. The exhibit will be received and marked as indicated 
by counsel. 

(Darling exhibit No. 5 was marked for identification and received, 
in evidence.) 

Mr. Kunzig. At this time, for the record, may I offer Darling ex- 
hibits No. 3 and 4; the picture of Gregurek, 3, and the house, 4, and 
ask that they be admitted? 

Mr. Sciierer. They will be so admitted, Mr. Counsel. 

(Darling exhibits No. 3 and 4 were marked for identification and 
received in evidence.) 

Mr. Clardy. Now, a final question, witness, and I am done on this : 
Isn't it a fact that while you were at Michigan State College, you 
were exactly in line with the SAVorn testimony in the hands of this com- 
mittee, actually the directing genius or head of a cell of the Young 
Communist League, and that most of the members were students, but 
that you and a few others on the faculty were also members? Is that 
a correct statement of fact or not? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that for the aforementioned reasons.. 

Mr. Clardy. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Sciierer. Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. Sciierer. Mr. Kunzig, do you have any questions ? 

IVIr. Kunzig. May we have a break at this point ? 

Mr. SciiEiiER. We were going to have a break, but counsel for the 
witness has indicated that he would rather complete the testimony 
of Dr. Darling. We asked him just a few minutes ago whether he 
wanted a break, feeling that Dr. Darling lias been on the stand quite 
some time. He has indicated that he didn't want a break. 

Mr. Clardy. It has only been an hour and about 15 minutes, Mr^ 
Chairman. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1817 

Mr. ScriERER. INIay I ask, Mr. Kiinzig, do you have some questions? 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, I have questions, and I would like some time. 

Mr. SciiERER. We will have a 15-minute recess at this time. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Counsel, I understand you have a few more ques- 
tions you want to ask the witness. You may proceed. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, just a few. 

Mr. Walter. May I interrupt before you get started? I have a 
few questions. I didn't know there would be more, or I would have 
interrogated the witness before, 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Walter. Doctor, you have given as the reason for refusing to 
answer questions propounded by members of this committee the posi- 
tion taken by one of the principal beneficiaries of our liberty. Dr. 
Einstein. The fact of the matter is, you refused to answer these 
questions in Washington before Dr. Einstein made his gratuitous 
statement, didn't you 'I 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. Walter. So that it wasn't what Dr. Einstein said; you are just 
merely adding that reason to whatever reasons you had when j'ou re- 
fused to answer the same questions in Washington? Did you read 
the comment that David Lawrence made about the statement — con- 
cerning the statement made by Dr. Einstein ? 

Dr. Darling. No, I didn't. 

Mr. Walter. I would recall it to you 

Dr. Darling. Well, Representative Walter, I understand that you 
said awdiile ago that I ought to stick to my physics. And I would like 
to tell you that there is nothing that I would like better to do. 

Mr. Walter. I wish you would devote the time to that that you 
devote to extracurricular activities. 

You mentioned a new field that you were making inquiry into. 
You said that ;/our work in that field was interrupted because your 
appearances before this committee interrupted that. It was some- 
thing in which the Air Force was concerned ; what was this field ? 

Dr. Darling. Theory of the ozone molecule. 

Mr. Walter. Ozone molecule. Why would the Air Force be in- 
terested in the ozone molecule? 

Dr. Darling. I don't know why the Air Force would be interested 
in the ozone molecule. I coidd speculate on those things, but what 
good does that do ? My only interest is in working on this molecule, 
contributing what knowledge I could. 

Mr. Walter. Yes, you were working on this molecule knowing full 
well that whatever research would produce w^ould have military value, 
didn't you ? 

Dr. Darling. T didn't know what value it would have. 

Mr. Walter. You suspected that it might have military value, 
didn't you ? 

Dr. Darling. No, I didn't suspect it might have military value at 
all. 

Mr. Walter. Could it have had military value? 

Dr. Darling. I don't know. 

Mr. Walter. At the time you were 

Dr. Darling. I don't see how the understanding — well, put it this 
way : The basic knowledge of physics, understanding of the f unda- 



1818 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

mentals may have all kinds of applications. My interest is in funda- 
mental physics. 

Mr. Walter. But weren't you being compensated by the United 
States Air Force for the work, the research work you were doing? 

Dr. Darling. I received a check from the research foundation which 
I understand makes some contractual relationships with the Air 
Force. 

Mr. Walter. Yes ; we have gotten to it finally, so that you were en- 
gaged in worlv in which the Air Force was directly interested and for 
which you were being paid indirectly ; is that it ? 

Dr. Darling. I presume that is it. 

Mr. Walter. Now, at the time you were engaged in this work for 
the armed services of the United States, were you a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason, 

Mr. Walter. That is all. 

Mr. Clardy, May I ask one further question on that same line, Mr, 
Chairman ? 

Mr, Scherer. Yes, Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Clardy. You indicated there was great value to be placed on 
the interrupted work that you have been doing. What assurance 
does this nation have that the results of your labor will not be placed 
in the hands of the enemies of America ? You have refused to answer 
all questions here concerning your Communist backgi-ound or affilia- 
tions, so I am asking you : What assurance have we that if these experi- 
ments had been carried through to fruition, the results would not 
have been placed in the same channels that took much other atomic 
information to Russia. 

(Dr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Clardy. May the record show that he has conferred at some 
length with his attorney before answering that question. 

Mr. Forer. We want to confer a little longer, too. 

(Dr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, it is obvious that they will consult 
all day and hold up the hearing. I withdraw the question. 

Mr.' Forer. Oh, no. 

(Dr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.) 

Mr. Clardy. The question is withdrawn. You have taken prac- 
tically all day. 

Dr. Darling. I would like to say 

Mr. Clardy. Counsel — never mind; you are not being addressed 
for any question at this time. 

Dr. Darling. I would like to state that the scientific work that I do 
is of a nature to be published in journals, and I think that that is one 
of the things that will work to the benefit of physics in this country, 
the lack of free exchange of physical knowledge. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, that is all I had. He might as well 
have said he refused to answer, because he didn't. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you have any questions ? 

Mr. Kunzig. Yes ; I have. 

Dr. Darling, I have here a photostat of a document marked Dar- 
ling Exhibit No. 6 for identification, which purports to be an en- 
velope and with the Darling Exhibit No. Y for identification, a letter 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1819 

which was in the envelope, a photostatic copy of said letter. I would 
like to ask you to examine these first, and I will have Mr. Appell bring 
them to you. 

Did you send that letter in that envelope to Art Wright who has 
been mentioned here this morning ? 

Mr. ScHERER. I am sorry ; I was listening to the gentleman ; will you 
repeat the question, please ? 

Mr. KuNziG. We are waiting for an answer. The question was: 
Did you send that letter in that envelope shown there as Exhibit 6 
and 7 for identification to Art Wright, who has been mentioned pre- 
viously here this morning, and whom you stated that you knew? 

Dr. Darling. I don't recall this letter, but this looks like my 
signature. 

Mr. KuNziCx. Is it your signature on the envelope in the upper left- 
hand corner on exhibit 6 ? 

Dr. Darling. That looks like my signature. 

Mr. KuNziG. And on the letter ? 

Dr. Darling. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I should like to, in connection with 
this group, this Young Communst League group about which we have 
had testimony this morning, and whether or not Dr. Darling knew the 
people involved, and whether they knew him, I should like to read 
this letter into evidence and point out that this letter was written 
about — on or about April 22, 1941, which was just prior to the invasion 
of Russia by Germany. In other words, it was during the "peace 
line" when the Communists in this country were for peace and all 
against our participation in any war. 

Mr. Clardy. Counsel, is it not a fact that the envelope and the let- 
terhead itself have the name of the college on them? Will you put 
that in the record ? 

Mr. KuNziG. I will, thank you. 

Mr. ScHERER. Your request is granted ; you may read it in evidence. 

Mr. KuNziG. At this time, I offer in evidence Exhibits 6 and 7. 

Mr. ScHERER. They may be received. 

(Darling Exhibits Nos. 6 and 7 were marked for identification and 
received in evidence.) 

Mr. KuNziG. It is written in handwriting — 

Dr. B. T. Darling, after 5 days, return to Michigan State College, Department 
of Mathematics, East Lansing, Mich. 

Mr. Clardy. Just a minute. The name "Darling" is in writing; the 
rest is in print. 

Mr. KuNziG. Yes; that is in handwriting. That is what he has 
testified. 

Mr. Clardy. Post mark ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Lansing, 2 : 13 p. m., Lansing, Mich. Written to Mr. 
Arthur Wright, W-r-i-g-h-t, 149 Pierpont Street, Brooklyn, N. Y. 

May I state for the record that Arthur Wright, in his testimony be- 
fore this committee, admitted under oath that at that time, he lived at 
149 Pierpont Street, Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Ma}' I also add that JSIr. Wright refused to answer questions with re- 
gard to Communist Party affiliations on the ground of the fifth amend- 
ment, such as we have had here this morning. 



1820 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

The letter which you have given me permission to read : 

To Whom It May Concern: 

J have known Artlinr and Lois Wright for about 2 years and assert they 
were planning to get married last June, and these plans were not at all con- 
ditioned, by the present draft, since it was not at that time in existence. 
From what I know of this couple, I do not feel their appeal for deferment 
springs from the fear or lack of knowledge of the situation we have, but 
the reasons come from the fear that here at home, the democratic way of life, 
which guarantees civil liberties and pursuit of happiness, must be done. That 
you do this by interfering as little as possible with the lives of people by 
allowing them to achieve some place in the world, by their having a job and 
being proud of it, that you do not create a strong democratic army by taking 
people when they will only feel resentment to it. In times like these, with Hitler 
abroad, we must look to our defenses in the broader sense of the word, so that 
what has happened there may not happen here. Yes, our army must he strong, 
but really so, hence I would consider carefully its selection. It is this import- 
ant .iob which rests on your shoulders as members of either the draft or appeal 
board. A job which demands painstaking consideration of the details surround- 
ing each case and requires a real consideration of the human elements involved 
and cannot be therefore a rule of thumb, mechanical thin.y. I submit these facts 
as beliefs to you in the complete faith that you will act justly. 
Yours truly, 

B. T. Darling. 

Mr. Clardy. Tliat is written in support of a claim of deferrment by 
a man who has been identified by several witnesses in our record as 
being a member of the Communist group in these discussion classes? 

Mr. KuNziG, That is correct. 

We have liad testimony that Messrs. Gainor, Bush, and Wright all 
knew Darling — Garrett is a man we haA^e talked about here as Gewirts. 
Garrett and Gewirts are the same person. Mr. Gewirts has the name 
Garrett, had his name legally changed in a record of law, since that 
time. He was known as (jewirts. 

Mr. Clardy. I used the correct name that he was known by at the 
time. 

Mr. KuNziG. That is right. I wanted the record to show that we 
had the same person in these two names. 

We then have Mr. Gainor testifying that he knew Mr. Darling 
and testifying that he, Mr. Gainor, was in the Young Communist 
League. Mr. Bush, the same way, and Garrett admitting that he 
corrected Darling's mathematics papers, and he was in the Young 
Communist League. 

In other words, Mr. Chairman, this entire group were members of 
the Young Communist League, and they met regularly at that period 
of time in Michigan. 

You have the testimony regarding Gregurek, and I have one other 
exhibit which I should like to offer. We have here in our posses- 
sion 

Mr. ScHERER. May I interrupt you, counsel ; do I understand that 
you are giving us a resume of the evidence? If so, for what purpose? 

Mr. KuN/iG. I want the record to be clear as to these points, leading 
up to the testimony of Mr. Gregurek. 

Mr. Clardy. Preliminary to questions you are going to ask? 

Mr. KuxzTG. That is correct. 

Mr. SciiERER. Proceed. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have two documents marked "Exhibits 8 and 9, Dar- 
ling," which are copies of a 1939 membership dues book, and initials 
in these books are "G. G.," standing for "Goldie Gregurek." I wish 



COAOIUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1821 

this to be stated for the record, that the initials "G. G.," in receipt of 
Commnnist Party membership dues, are the initials of Goldie Gregu- 
rek, and also, sir, may the record show that investigation has shown 
that Goldie Gregurek was a member of the State Central Committee 
of the Communist Party of Michigan, and financial secretary of the 
Communist Party in the Lansing area during the period of time we 
Mere discussing this morning. 

Mr. ScHERER. I didn't follow you closely. To whom is that receipt 
issued ? 

]yir. KuNziG. Investigation has shown that this is the book of a John 

Sova. 

The question of putting this on the record is to show that Mrs. 
Gregurek was actually receiving funds for the Communist Party, and 
it was in the Gregureks' home that a lot of these meetings took place. 

Mr. ScHERER. I understand now, Mr. Counsel. 

They may be received as exhibits, as you liave indicated. 

( Darling exhibits Nos. 8 and 9 were marked for identification and 
received in evidence.) 

Mr. KuNziG. We have the photographs of Mr. Gregurek and his 
liome. 

Dr. Darling, having heard all this testimony this morning as you 
have, and having listened to the statements of other people, a profes- 
sor at Pittsburgh, a professor'at Harvard, having heard these people 
tell through their testimony that they were members of the Young 
Communist group which met there, and that you were tlie leader, one 
of the main leaders of this group, I should like to ask you once again, 
were you a leader of this group, und did you not attend these meetings ? 

Dr. Darlixg. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. KuNziG. I should like to turn once again to the testimony of 
Professor Busli, because of one important feature which I think should 
become a part of this record. 

Mr. Chairman, there has been a great deal of discussion publicly 
and in the press, and in other places to the effect that teachers should 
be free and should be able to say what they wish and that there is this 
discussion of academic freedom; and that everybody should be able 
to do anything or say anything and the point that I believe this com- 
mittee and others have made, and attempted to make, is that a Com- 
numist teacher is not free, and you have had testimony here yesterday 
and today that a Communist teacher is not free. 

I should like to read the testimony of Mr. Bush in re this particular 
point. [Reading :] 

Mr. Bush. I recall having considerable reservations about this group from the 
beginning. I think I thought the group was at least being pro-Communist. We 
were certainly studying and reading Marxist literature, Communist literature. 
I frequently [this is Mr. Bush] had differences of opinion with people, and I 
recall a numlier of instances of being squelched by Gainor and liy Darling. They 
would accuse me of opportunism or some other catch phrase, whenever I objected 
to something or asked a question about something being discussed. 

Then Mr. Appell, sitting at my left, asked — 

In other words, your recollection is that you and other members of this group 
were supposed to accept that which was set forth in the document and that you 
were reading or discussing as factual? 

Mr. Bush. I remember strong pressure being put on me at times to accept 
what was said in these publications and not to disagree with what I had been 
reading. 



1822 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. Appell. An objection on your part, disagreeing, brought censure from 
Gainer and Darling? 

Mr. Bush. Yes, either arguing the point by itself or name calling, if the former 
did not seem to be practical. In all these discussions, it was evident to me that 
Darling and Gainor had more facts and arguments at their disposal than I 
did, and I was not informed on political matters or Communist Party literature. 

Mr. Darling, the question I would like to ask you is this : You said 
you were only interested, a few moments ago, in fundamental physics. 
Did these discussions transcend fundamental physics? Did they go 
a bit beyond fundamental physics ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. KuNziG. Weren't these questions, sir, as a matter of fact, and 
these discussions, not about fundamental physics, but about com- 
munism, world affairs and the position of the United States as against 
the position of Eussia? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the aforemen- 
tioned reasons. 

Mr. KuNziG. One final question, sir. You spoke of the importance 
of your work. You spoke of the importance of the physics work you 
were doing. You spoke of the Air Force wanting such work and 
needing such work, and this is my question : In the present state of 
world affairs, Dr. Darling, do you honestly believe that the United 
States Government should employ a scientist on a vitally important 
project who refuses to answer questions about Communist activities, 
and who shrouds these activities in secrecy and mystery? 

Dr. Darling. Well, I think that the work that I was doing was 
valuable, was a contribution to my country, and I think that the 
Government — not the Government, l3ut the project I was working on 
should hire me back. 

Mr. Kunzig. That doesn't answer the question. Dr. Darling, as to 
whether the Government should hire somebody who has taken the 
fifth amendment as you have, and has not testified frankly and 
honestly and correctly before a committee of this kind. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr." Kunzig, I think he has answered the question. 
Not satisfactorily, of course, but he has answered. 

Mr. Kunzig. All right. 

Mr. Clardy. May I ask counsel a question, Mr. Chairman? 

You have there, I believe, letters dealing with the deferment mat- 
ters from other members of the group. I think they ought to be 
marked as exhibits in this case. 

Mr. Kunzig. That is correct, sir; I do, and I would like to offer as 
No. 10, Darling exhibit No. 10, a letter from Charles Gainor 
similar 

Mr. Scherer. Does this refer to Dr. Darling? 

Mr. Kunzig. No, I am just following the question asked by Mr. 
Clardy. 

Mr. Scherer. I think they should be in evidence, but lets put 
them in evidence after Dr. Darling is off the stand. They do not 
refer to Dr. Darling, but to other men. 

Do you have any further questions to Dr. Darling? 

Mr. Kunzig. No. 

Mr. Walter. Before you close, I would like to ask one other ques- 
tion. Doctor, you said in your opinion the Government should hire 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1823 

you back to continue the work that you have been doing. Of course, 
if that very, very remote thing should happen, you would be compelled 
to sign an application for employment in which you would be required 
to answer the question whether or not you were a member of the Com- 
munist Party. How would you answer such a question ? 

Dr. Darling. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Walter, So then, you would put as an answer to the question 
on form 57 : Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? : "I refuse to answer that question" ? 

Mr. ScHERER. He might say, as he did before the university presi- 
dent, might say, "I am not a member of the Communist Party" because 
it would not be under oath. 

Mr. Walter. This form is under oath ; it is an affidavit form. 

Mr. ScHERER. Are there any more questions, gentlemen? 

Mr. Walter. I would like to have an answer. 

Mr. ScHERER. He said he refused to answer. I interrupted. 

Are there any more questions ? 

The witness is excused and discharged from his subpena. 

Mr. KuNziG. May I at this point pursuant to your request, sir, put 
on the record as what we will call exhibit A and exhibit B, a part of 
this record, a letter from Charles Gainor about whom there has been 
testimony and whose testimony has been read to the committee, "letter 
A, to whom it may concern," draft board letter, about Arthur Wright 
and Lois Wright. 

Mr. Clardt. Letters seeking to persuade them to defer him ? 

Mr. KuNziG. That is right. And a letter from Edward Simons, 
an instructor in music, about whom there has been testimony, letters 
with regard to def errment for Mrs. Lois Wright and Mr. Lois Wright, 
to whom it may be concerned. 

Mr. ScHERER. These may be received. 

(Exhibits A and B were marked for identification and received in 
evidence.) 

Mr. KuNziG. The deferrment is for Mr. Arthur Wright, but the 
letter concerns both. 

Mr. ScHERER. Proceed with the next witness. 

Mr. KuNziG. The next witness is Mrs. Flora Webster. 

Mr. ScHERER. The witness will raise her hand. 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give to this sub- 
committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Webster. I do. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let the record note that Mr. Forer, the same counsel 
who appeared with preceding witnesses, is also representing Mrs. 
Flora Webster. 

Would you state your name, Mrs. Webster ? 

TESTIMONY OF TXORA WEBSTER, ACCOMPANIED BY HER COUNSEL, 

JOSEPH FORER 

Mrs. Webster. Mrs. Flora Webster. 
Mr. KuNziG. And your correct address, please ? 
Mrs. Webster. 4625 East 15th, Tucson, Ariz. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Webster, could you give the committee a resume 
of your educational background? 



1824 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mrs. Webster. Well, I finished grade scliool and high school oiily^ 
and then I took an evening class to brush up in shorthand later, high 
school. The high school was Frontenac, at Frontenac, Kans., and the 
evening class was taken at the Houston High School. 

Mr. KuNziG. What date did you finish your education ? 

Mrs. Webster. I finished high school in 1937, and that was Fronte- 
nac High School, and I just recently took the brushup course in^ 
shorthand. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see. When were you married, what year? 

Mrs. Webster. 1940. 

Mr. KuNziG. And what is your husband's name, Mrs. Webster? 

Mrs. Webster. Willard Parker Webster. 

Mr. KuNziG. Pardon me ? 

Mrs. Webster. Willard Parker Webster. 

Mr. KuNziG. Willard Parker Webster ? 

Mrs. Webster. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Does he have a nickname of any kind ? 

Mrs. Webster. Ben. 

Mr. KuNziG. Ben Webster. Now, if I am correct, you are the 
sister of Barbara Darling, who testified here previously? Is that 
correct ? 

Mrs. Webster. That is correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, would you give the committee a resume of your 
employment background, Mrs. Webster, please ? 

Mrs. Webster. Well, I sort of expected that. I will read it. 

Mr. KuNziG. You mean you guessed that we might ask that question ? 

Mrs. Webster. That is right. I made a list because I have had quite 
a few part-time jobs. 

Mr. KuNziG. All right. Would you read from your list ? 

Mrs. Webster. This may not even be all of them. 

Mr. KuNziG. To the best of your recollection. 

Mrs. Webster. That is it, to the best of my recollection. 

Mr. KuNziG. Certainly. 

Mrs. Webster. I began to work, my first job was at L. A. Young 
Spring & Wire Corp., some time in 1937. 

Mr. KuNziG. May I suggest you go a little slower so we will be sure 
to get the record straight in this ? Don't talk quite as fast, if you don't 
mind? 

Mrs. Webster. Did you get that? 

The next jobs were at various markets in the Detroit area, then from 
1943 to approximately 1948, I worked in the various locals of the 
United Automobile Workers of the Congress of Industrial Organiza- 
tions in the Detroit area, and also for the Fur & Leather Workers of 
America. 

Mr. KuNziG. Fur & Leather Workers of America ? 

Mrs. Webster. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. That is the same union we had testimony about tliat 
was thrown out of the CIO because of Communist activity? 

Mrs. WeBvSTer. I heard that yesterday. 

Mr. KuNziG. You didn't know that until yesterday? 

Mrs. Webster. I was never aware 

Mr. KuNziG. You were not aware that it was thrown out because of 
Communist activity? 

Mrs. Webster. No. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1825 

Mr. KuNziG. Proceed. 

Mrs. Webster. In 1949 and 1950, I worked for a physician in the 
Tucson area. In 1951, 1952, for the Ford agency in California. In 
1952, Southern Arizona Bank & Trust Co., Tucson, and up to the pres- 
ent time, the post office at Tucson, Ariz. 

Mr. KuNziG. In the post office? 

Mrs. Webster. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. I will come back to the post office employment in a 
few moments. 

Mrs. Webster, did you ever know a Toby Baldwin ? 

Mrs. Y^'^ebster. I don't recollect knowing anybody by that name. 

Mr. KuNziG. Pardon me? 

Mrs. Webs<ter. I do not recollect knowing anyone by that name. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know a Mrs. Bereniece Baldwin who is also 
known as Toby Baldwin ? "Toby" is a nickname. 

Mrs. Webster. I don't know anyone by the name of Baldwin. 

Mr. KuNziG. That is B-a-1-d-w-i-n, Mrs. Bereniece or Toby Bald- 
win. Think well. 

Mrs. Webster. I can't remember. I can't remember anyone by that 
name, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. That would be in or about Detroit, Mich., in or about 
1943, 1944, 1945; does that help refresh your recollection? 

Mrs. Webster. I knew a great many people in that time. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see. 

Mrs. Webster. And I don't remember everybody that I met or 
knew. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever hear of the 14th Congressional Club 
of the Communist Party of Detroit? 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of 
my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. KuNsiG. _You refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it might incriminate you, is that correct ? 

Mrs. Webster. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you don't know Toby Baldwin or can't recall 
ever having known Toby Baldwin? 

Mrs. Webster. I don't recall her. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let's see if I can refresh your recollection. Will you 
please bring Mrs. Baldwin in the room? I believe she is waiting out- 
side, through the back, please. 

(Mrs. Bereniece Baldwin entered the hearing room at this point.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Webster this lady who just came in the room is 
Mrs. Toby Baldwin. I ask you to look at her and see if you know her. 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer that question on the same basis. 

Mr. KuNziG. Thank you very much, Mrs. Baldwin. We will hear 
from you later. Take a seat, please. 

Now, isn't it a fact, Mrs. Webster, that you were a member of the 
14th Congressional Club of the Communist Party in Detroit ? 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer that question on the same basis. 

Mr. KuNziG. Isn't it a fact that you were a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer that question on the same basis. 
Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer that question on the same basis. 



1826 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been a member of a group which sought 
to overthrow the Government of the United States by force or 
violence ? 

Mrs. Webster. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. KuNziG. You refuse to answer, whether you are a member of 
the Communist Party, but not to your knowledge have you ever been 
a member of a group that seeks to overthrow the Government of the 
United States by force and violence ? 

Mrs. Webster. I am not a person of force and violence. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let me remind you for your information and perhaps 
to assist you a bit here that your sister testified yesterday that when 
the same situation came up that she was not now a member or a group 
which sought to overthrow the Government by force and violence, 
but you are being asked whether you were ever at any time a member 
of a group which seeks to overthrow the Government by force and 
violence ? 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground. 

Mr. KuNziG. It is the same question I asked you a few minutes ago, 
but now you refuse ? 

Mr. Scherer. No ; she has answered. 

Wait a minute. 

Mr. Walter. Excuse me. 

Mr. KuNziG. Her answer was "No" to that question. 

Mr. ScPiERER. The answer to the last question was the fifth amend- 
ment, as I remember. If the witness wants to change the answer, 
she may do so. 

Mrs. Webster. Will you repeat the question, please ? 

Mr. KuNziG. I have here a document marked "Webster Exhibit 
No. 1" for identification and in order that the witness may have a 
chance to examine it, I ask Mr. Appell to show it to the witness and to 
her counsel. 

Now, Mrs. Webster, you have seen this Webster Exhibit No. 1 for 
identification, I ask you if it wasn't your application for Federal 
employment ? 

Mrs. Webster. Yes, it is. 

Mr. Ktjnzig. It is a photostatic copy of your own application, isn't 
that right? 

Mrs. Webster. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. This was dated September 20, 1952, and it is signed 
on the back, Mrs. Flora Webster, is that correct ? 

Mrs. Webster. That is correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. Prior to that signature is stated : 

I certify that the statements made by me in tliis application are true, complete, 
and correct to the best of my knowledge, belief, and are made in good faith. 

Question 17 says — 

Are you or have you ever been a member of any organization which advocates 
the overthrow of our form of government or advocates or approves acts of force 
or violence to deny other persons their rights under the United States Consti- 
tution or seeks to alter our form of government by unconstitutional means? 

and there is a little box with a cross mark in it by the word "No." 



COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1827 

Was that question in that employment form and did you answer it? 

Mrs. Webster. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. And that was your answer on September 20, 1952 ? 

Mrs. Webster. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you consider the Communist Party an organiza- 
tion seeking to overthrow the Government of the United States by 
force or violence? 

Mrs. Webster. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Not to your knowledge. 

Now, was your husband ever an employee of the Federal 
Government ? 

Mrs. Webster. Yes, he was. 

Mr. KuNziG. When was that, and what was his employment so far 
as you can recall ? 

Mrs. Webster. I don't remember the exact dates. It was while we 
were in Detroit. 

Mr. KuNziG. While you were in Detroit ? 

Mrs. Webster. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. What was his job? 

Mrs. Webster. Mail carrier. 

Mr. KuNziG. A mail carrier? 

Mrs. Webster. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. An employee of the Post Office Department? 

Mrs. Webster. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, isn't it a fact that you had a conversation with 
Mrs. Baldwin who appeared before us just a moment ago here in this 
hearing room and that you visited with Mrs. Baldwin at various times 
at your home, and isn't it a fact that you wanted to resign from the 
Communist Party and the club because of your husband's activities, 
Ben Webster's activities ; that he worked for the Government as a mail 
deliverer and that he requested you to drop your membership in the 
Communist Party ? Isn't that a fact ? 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. Isn't it a fact that you wanted out and you offered to 
contribute financially to the party until such a time as you could again 
become a member, but at that point you wanted to be let out? 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer on the same basis. 

Mr. KuNziG. Isn't it a fact that Mrs. Baldwin made many visits to 
your home trying to impress you with the need of remaining in the 
party ? 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer on the same basis. 

Mr. KuNziG. And isn't it a fact, Mrs. Webster, that you said to Mrs. 
Baldwin that — you told her about your sister, Mrs. Darling, and you 
said you could see nothing so terribly wrong in dropping membership 
in the party, that some of the professional groups had never been open 
members, although they contributed and freely affiliated with the 
party, and that you said that was the case with your sister, and your 
sister's husband. Dr. Darling, a physicist ? Isn't that a fact ? 



1828 COMAIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer on the same basis. 
Mr. KuNziG. Isn't it a fact that you told Mrs. Baldwin that your 
sister's husband, Dr. Darling, w^as not an open member of the party 
because they thought he could do more being in secret, so to speak, for 
the party? 
Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer on the same basis. 
Mr. KuNziG. And isn't it a fact that you wanted the same privilege 
for yourself that had been accorded Dr. Darling as a leading profes- 
sional member of the party ? 
Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer on the same basis. 
Mr. KuNZiG. Now, Mrs. Webster, Avere you ever a member of the 
Wonder's unit, section 3, of the Young Communist League? 
Mrs. AVebstek. I refuse to answer on the same basis. 

Mr. KuNziG. Didn't you attend, on June 12, 1940, a meeting held in 
Magnolia Hall, on Magnolia Street, Detroit, of Wonder's unit, sec- 
tion 3, of the Young Communist League ? 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer on the same basis. 

Mr. Kdnzig. Isn't it a fact that these meetings usually consisted of 
short talks, the sale of Young Communist League literature, the sale 
of books on the life of Stalin — that stuff was sold at these meetings? 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer on the same basis. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do jou recall they discussed at this meeting a summer 
school being set up for the training of young Communist leaders dur- 
ing the first 2 weeks in August, the cost per student to be $20 for the 
2 weeks, part of the cost to be paid by the Wonder's unit sending the 
student ? 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer on the same basis. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you attend a banquet to welcome the national 
counselor of the national Young Communist League at 8951 12th 
Street in Detroit on July 12, 1940 ? 

Mrs. Webster. I refuse to answer on the same basis. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I think it is apparent that the fifth 
amendment is going to be the answer on all questions we may ask, so 
I therefore, have no further questions to ask of this witness. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Clardy, do you have any questions ? 

Mr. Clardy. No, I have no questions. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. I believe you worked in the post office up until March 
of this year? 

Mrs. Webster. It was November of last year. 

Mr. Walter. That is all. 

Mr. ScHERER. The witness is excused, and discharged from the 
subpena. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I should like for the record to ask that 
the document which has been discussed as Webster exhibit No. 1 be 
admitted into evidence. 

Mr. SciiERER. It may be so received and noted in the record. 

(The exhibit, Webster No. 1, marked for identification, was re- 
ceived in evidence.) 

Mr. SciiERER. Do you have another witness? 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you wish to break at this moment, sir? 

Mr. SciiERER. Could I talk with you a moment, sir? 

(Discussion off the record.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1829 

Mr. KuNziG. We are ready, then, sir, to call as the next witness in; 
this hearing Mrs, Bereniece Baldwin. 

Please come forward, Mrs. Baldwin. 

Mr. ScHERER. Would you raise your right hand, please? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give to this 
subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. BERENIECE "TOBY" BALDWIN 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Baldwin, I note that you are not represented 
by counsel. You understand, of course, your absolute right to have 
counsel advise you. Do you wish to have counsel, or are you per- 
fectly content to testify without counsel ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I am absolutely content to testify without it. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you give your name for the record, please?. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Mrs. Bereniece Baldwin. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you sometimes known as Toby Baldwin? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, I am. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Baldwin, what is your present address, please?.' 

Mrs. Baldwin. Detroit, Midi. Do you want the full address? 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you have a house number ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, 16272 East State Fair Street, Detroit, Mich.. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Baldwin, is it a true fact that you were an 
undercover agent within the Communist Party working with and. 
cooperating with the FBI ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes ; that is true. 

Mr. KuNziG. You have testified previously before this committee ;; 
is that correct ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes ; I have. 

Mr. KuNziG. On other matters? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. What was the period of time that you worked for the- 
FBI as an undercover agent in the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. From approximately May of 1943 until February of 
J. y »_) ^ , 

Mr. KuNziG. As recently as 1952 ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. And starting in 1943? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. What name did you use in the Communist Party, Mrs.. 
Baldwin? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I used the name Toby Baldwin. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Baldwin, you heard the last witness testify here^, 
Mrs. Webster. You heard her say that she didn't know you. Did 
you know her ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know her well ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Fairly well, yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did she know you in 1943 and 1944? 

Mrs. Baldwin. She certainly did. ; 

35663 — 53 7 



1830 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you briefly testify and tell the committee how 
you got into the party, Mrs. Baldwin? 
Mrs. Baldwin. How I got in ? 
Mr. KuNziG. Yes. How you got in the party. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, after several conferences with agents of the 
Federal Bureau of Investigation, I joined the party, filled out an ap- 
plication for membership following an open rally by Communist 
Party leaders. 

Mr. KuNziG. What offices have you held in the Communist Party? 
Mrs. Baldwin. Membership and dues secretary for various sections. 
I have worked at the office relieving the receptionist and the stenogra- 
pher there. 

I became membership and dues secretary for the State of Michigan, 
district 7, in 1947 and 1948. There were various other posts, but I 
believe that covers it. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, as membership secretary of the Communist 
Party, what responsibilities did you have there in the State of 
Michigan ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Primarily of taking of the reports that were handed 
in to me on the status of each individual, tabulating them for the 
NeAV York office. It was also issuing of membership cards for 1948 
and the registration began in the fall of 1947. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Baldwin, did you know during that early period 
of your activity in the Communist Party an individual by the name of 
Barbara Springer ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now known as Barbara Springer Darling, or Mrs. 
Darling, the wife of Professor Darling, who testified here this morn- 
ing or yesterday. You weren't here yesterday, Mrs. Baldwin, but Mrs. 
Darling also testified yesterday before this committee. 

How did you first become acquainted with Barbara Springer to the 
best of your recollection? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I heard her name in party circles in the latter part 
of 1943, and the first part of 1944, but I actually saw her in person at 
a Michigan State conference, which was held in 1944. 

Mr. ScHERER. You say "Michigan State conference." Do you mean 
a Michigan State conference of the Communist Party ? 
Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Kunzig. Was this the convention of the Communist Party 
which dissolved the Communist Party and created the Communist 
Political Association? 

Mrs. Baldwin. It was a meeting called for that purpose for the 
discussion of the delegates. 

Mr. KuNziG. Had the national convention of the Communist Party 
already adopted the program to change to the Communist Political 
Association and had the convention ratified the action of the national, 
or was that the convention for the purpose of obtaining approval in 
the State of Michigan to adopt this new organizational structure 
known as Communist Political Association ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That was for the establishment of it after the na- 
tional committee had already made the decision. 

Mr. KuNziG. So that at the time this convention took place, it was 
called by the Communist Party of tlie United States, rather than the 
Communist Political Association? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1831 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is true. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, you had this acquaintanceship with Barbara 
Springer. How long a period did you know her? Did she stay 
around Detroit for awhile, or did she leave ? 

Mrs. BxVLDWiN. She left shortly after I appeared there, and we 
were told — members of the party were told that she had gone west- 
ward with her husband. 

Mr, KuNziG. Did you have any knowledge whether her husband 
was a physicist ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I had been told he was a physicist. 

Mr. Knuzig. What period of time was this i 

Mrs. Baldwin. 1944. 

Mr. KuNziG. 1944? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. I want to make sure our dates are correct because we 
had some testimony yesterday that the two were married in 1946. Did 
you know them in 1944? You knew Mrs. Darling in 1944? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. And she left, then, to go with her husband the latter 
part, later, after that period out west somewhere, according to your 
knowledge, is that right? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, yon also testified that you know or knew Mrs. 
Darling's sister, Flora Webster, who you stood before this morning, 
is that correct? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, would you tell the committee everything you 
know with regard to Flora Webster's attempting to get out of the 
party? Would you explain in detail to the members of the com- 
mittee, please? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. I should begin with the beginning of when 
Flora Webster was transferred into my cell. It was then called 
the Frederick Douglass Community Club and was broken down into 
smaller groups. They became a member of the same unit as I, which 
was called the 14th Congressional Club of the Communist Party. It 
was during this period that we had to make arrangements for the 
election of officers for this new club or cell, I should say, and it was 
the chairman, Stanley Dembski, and myself who made periodic visits 
to Flora Webster's home to indoctrinate her into the activities of what 
this club would do. 

It was during this period that she voiced her disapproval of her 
husband — Ben Webster's thoughts that she should drop out of the 
party because of security for him. We made several trips there to 
convince her of the necessity of remaining in this cell. 

Mr. Clardt. Made several trips where ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. To her home. 

Mr. Clardt. Proceed. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, that, I believe, answers your question. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you have any other conversations with Mrs. 
Webster? 

IVIrs. Baldwin. We had many conversations with her during this 
period. It was during this time that she told me she couldn't under- 
stand why she couldn't be granted the same privileges of not being 
an open party member, the same as her sister's husband, Dr. Darling, 



1832 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

as she called him. She said he was doing more good for the party not 
being an open member and she felt she could do the same thing. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, would you explain to the committee from your 
personal knowledge, from your work with the cards and the records 
of the Communist Party and the part to which you belonged, would 
you explain how professional people such as teachers and professors 
were handled in your records ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. They were the hidden or secret part of the Com- 
munist Party. The names were usually not known unless you happen 
to know the individuals. I did come in contact with quite a few of 
them through their own word of mouth, not through other party 
members. When they would say they belonged to a certain cell, this 
was information — I wouldn't say underground activities at that time, 
but they were working towards the Communist goal without being 
open party members. They would be handed in to me on lists such 
as so many clubs, such a professional club, or teachers' club. Many 
of such lists were handed to me. 

They would come into contact with a leader of that situation, and 
that was later repudiated, that I was not to contact them. 

Mr. KuNziG. The teachers and professors were something apart, 
something very important, and something to be handled very, very 
specially ; is that right ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes; I was once told by the party leader that 
their 

Mr. KuNziG. Who? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Helen Allison. 

Mr, KuNziG. Is that Helen Allison Winter ? 

Mrs, Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that the wife of Mr. Winter, who was convicted in 
the leading Communist trial ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is true. I was once told that their type of 
work, it would require not being an open party member. 

Mr. KuNziG. You mean the work of the professors and teachers 
would require their not being open party members? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That is right. They could not be known as 
Communists. 

Mr. KuNziG. This also applied to other leading professional people, 
such as lawyers and people of that nature? 

Mrs. Baldwin. All of our hidden party, which we had quite a few 
of, it was called the professional group, but within that professional 
group were many cells such as the professional people in their own 
right. Lawyers would have a group, teachers would have a group, even 
civil-service workers had a group, college students had a group within 
various colleges, Michigan State, Lansing, and so forth. The uni- 
versity had their own group. 

Mr. KuNziG. And these facts are known to you of your personal 
knowledge from your experience as being an undercover agent in the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Bai.dwin. That is right. 

Mr. Walit.r. Wliat is the maximum number of members in these 
professional groups during the period that you were in the party? 

Mrs, Baldwin. There would be a variance on that, sir, because in 
1948 when we had a tightening up, were taking security measures, they 
took those certain cells, put in on a certain area, and combined it 



COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1833 

together, but I would say as an overall professional figure, that would 
be 400 to 500 in 1947. 

Mr. Walter. In 1947, there were a maximum of 500 ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. A rough figure. There were many not even entered 
on the lists. 

Mr. Walter. Of that number, how many were in the teaching 
profession ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I would safely say between 200 and 250. 

Mr. Clardt. But that number was broken down into small cells? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. You are giving us the overall number? 

Mrs. Baldwin. The overall number. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mrs. Baldwin, of what part or what group or what 
club were you a member ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Well, do you mean towards the last, or throughout? 

Mr. KuNziG. Let's start at the beginning, in 1943. 

Mrs. Baldwin. I was a member of section 3, branch 157, and that 
was in 1943. 

In the fall of 1943, I was transferred to a newly organized section 
of the Communist Party for the east side residents and that was called 
the Frederick Douglass Community Club. 

The first part of 1944, there was a breakdown of that club, which 
had around 700 members, and they broke it down to a territorial basis, 
and I became a member, was transferred as dues secretary to what 
was known as the 14th Congressional Club. 

Mr. KuNziG. The 14th Congressional Club? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Kunzig. Was Flora Webster transferred in that 14th Con- 
gressional Club when you were? 

Mrs. Baldw^in. She was not transferred from the same club that I 
was, she had not been a member of the same club of which I had been 
a member, but she was transferred in there from the Mid-Town Club. 

Mr. Kunzig. Into the 14th Congressional Club ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Kunzig. So you know of your own knowledge that Flora Web- 
ster was a member of the 14th Congressional Club of the Connnunist 
Party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I certainly do. 

Mr. Kunzig. You say you sat in meetings with her? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Walter. What is the maximum number of members of the 
Communist Party in the State of Michigan? 

Mrs. Baldwin. At present? 

Mr. Walter. No. At any time. 

Mrs. Baldwin. Between 3,000 and 3,700. That was a rough figure. 
Recruits were coming in throughout the year. 

Mr. Walter. ^Ylien was that? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That would be in the fall of 1947. 

Mr. Walter. Fall of 1947. How many are there now ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I wouldn't knoAv. They have gone underground. 

Mr. Walter. How many were there 

Mrs. Baldwin. I couldn't tell you because I transferred to another 
branch. 



1834 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Mr. Walter. Did the number increase or decrease ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. It would have decreased. 

Mr. Walter. What do you attribute the decrease to? 

Mrs. Baldwin. ^Yel\, when I say it decreased, I mean that as an 
overall figure, because it would be hard to keep track of them. Many 
of them were dropping out of the party because of fear and many of 
them just didn't believe in the party, but the majority didn't want to 
be known as Communist Party members. 

Mr. Walter. Dropping out because of fear? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Walter. Fear from what? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Fear from different legislation that was being 
passed. 

Mr. Clardt. Fear of exposure? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. Walter. Is it that as much as it is an appreciation that they 
are part and parcel of an international conspiracy to overthrow our 
form of government ? Isn't that it ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. For the members, I would like to answer that this 
way. For the members who have participated in the educational 
phases of the Communist Party and know what it stands for, they 
definitely know it is a conspiracy. 

Mr. Clardy. They know full well what it is about, then, don't they, 
the elite? 

Mrs. Baldwin. They certainly should. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Baldwin, you were membership secretary of the 
group, were you not? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Of the 14th Congressional Club ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. So you, even more than anyone else, would know who 
were members better than anyone else? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I accepted their dues. 

Mr. KuNziG. You accepted their dues? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, I did. 

Mr. KuNZiG. That would seem to make it pretty clear. 

Now, I would like to ask you this question, if I may. Did you 
attend the 1944 convention of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where was it held ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That was held at the Jericho Temple, in Detroit, 
Mich. 

Mr. Clardy. Wliat was the location again? 

Mrs. Baldwin. On Joy Road, 2705 Joy Road, Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Kunzig. At that 1944 convention of the Communist Party, in 
which you met Barbara Springer Darling, could she have been a 
participant in that convention without being a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No, she couldn't have. 

Mr. Kttnztg. You did meet her there ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, I did meet her there. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did vou check her credentials? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 1835 

Mrs. Baldwin. I worked on the credentials committee, but I did 
not handle names. 

Mr. Kttnzig. I see. But you definitely saw Barbara Springer 
Darling there? 

Mrs. Baldwin. She gave a report ; yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. She did ? What report did she ^ive ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. That was a resolution and review ; committee report. 

Mr. KuNziG. "Wliat was the review committee? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Political activities of the party, and hers dealt 
tvith the phase of the Teheran Conference. 

Mr. KuNziG. She gave that report personally? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Yes, it was my first convention of the Communist 
Party, and I shan't forget. 

Mr. KuNziG. Nobody could actually give an important report such 
as that to the Communist convention without herself being a Com- 
munist, could she? 

Mrs. Baldwin. We elected delegates from our various cells. We 
had to be elected delegates. 

JMr. KuNziG. Do you happen to know from what cell Mrs. Darling 
came ? 

Mrs. Baldwin. No, I know it was the west side, but I did not know 
what cell. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, making that report as she did, would she have 
been chairman of the review committee to give that report? 

Mrs. Baldwin. Not necessarily State chairman. She would have 
been. I don't remember exactly what she was. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Counsel, what year was this ? 

Mr. KuNziG. I will ask the witness. 

What year was this? 

Mrs. Baldwin. In the spring of 1944. 

Mr. KuNziG. So that you positively identified Mrs. Darling as a 
member of the Communist Party and Mrs. Webster as a member of 
the Communist Party, is that correct? 

Mrs. Baldwin. I do. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further questions to ask, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. ScHEEER. Mr. Clardy, do you have any questions? 

Mr. Clardy. No, I think counsel has done a competent job. I have 
no further questions. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Walter? 

Mr. Walter. No questions. 

Mr. ScHERER. The witness is excused and discharged from her sub- 
pena. Thank you very much. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Chairman, I have no further witnesses to bring^ 
before this committee. 

Mr. Clardy. On this matter? 

^Ir. KuNziG. On this matter at this time. 

Mr. Scherer. This concludes the hearings here in Columbus. 

The committee wishes to thank the people in this community wha 
have contributed so much to the hearings, the press, the television, and 
particularly my good friend Sidney Isaacs, counsel and director of the 
Ohio Commission on Un-American Activities, who handled many of 
the details and arrangements for this hearing, and also Mr. Samuel 



1836 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE CuLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

Devine, the chairman of the Ohio Commission of Un-American 
Activities, which is doing such a splendid job in this State. 

I want to thank the sergeant-at-arms, Mr. Claude Woodward, for 
his efficient service, and the four members of the Ohio State Highway 
Patrol, who assisted him. 

I desire also to thank Mr. Scatterly, the superintendent of this 
■building who cooperated so splendidly with the committee. 

The committee is now adjourned. 

(Whereupon the meeting adjourned at 12: 30 p. m.) 



APPENDIX 

(By order of the committee, the following is incorporated into the 
record of these hearings :) 

July 2, 1953. 
Memorandum in be Dakling Hearing at Columbus, Ohio 

The Darling hearings are hereby reopened for the purpose of inserting in the. 
record documentary evidence and a statement with respect thereto. This docu- 
ment was not known to exist at the time of the Columbus hearings on June 17 and 
18, 1953. 

It will be recalled that Barbara Ann Darling's previous name was Barbara 
Ann Springer. At the hearings in Columbus, she and her sister, Florence Web- 
ster, refused to answer numerous questions with reference to their membership in 
the Communist Party and their activities in connection therewith. Both parties 
refused to answer said questions because to do so might tend to incriminate them 
or at least so they contended. 

At the Columbus hearing, one Bereniece Baldwin, a former undercover agent 
for the FBI, who became a member of the Communist Party at the request of 
the FBI, identified both Barbara Ann Darling and Florence Webster, her sister, 
as members of the Communist Party. 

It is significant to note that in spite of these positive identifications by Bereniece 
Baldwin and the refusal of the parties to either deny or aflSrm membership in 
the Communist Party when they had the opportunity to do so, reports have come 
to the committee that there are still a number of persons at Ohio State and else- 
where who contend that Mrs. Baldwin, the FBI agent, was not telling the truth 
and was acting in the role of a typical informer. Of course, these persons who 
make such contentions in the face of such overwhelming evidence can be classified 
with those individuals who still claim that Alger Hiss, the Rosenbergs, and so 
forth, are innocent. 

There has come into the possession of the committee, since the Columbus 
hearing, documentary proof which completely corroborates the testimony of 
Bereniece Baldwin. The manner in which this documentary evidence was dis- 
covered, in and of itself, helps to demonstrate the conclusiveness of the evidence 
developed in the Darling matter. 

The documentary evidence, hereby made a part of the record, markefl "Darling 
Exhibit No. 9," is a letter to Dr. Bella Dodd, signed by 20 persons, including 
Barbai'a A. Springer. This letter reads as follows : ^ 

"Dear Betxa Dodd : We, the Michigan comrades, delegates to this historic 
national 1944 convention, warmly welcome you into our direct work and leader- 
ship and with all comradely wishes for the success of your great work." 

Dr. Bella Dodd v.as called to testify at Columbus on matters generally relating 
to Communist infiltration into the field of education. As far as Dr. Dodd was 
concerned when she arrived at Columbus, Ohio, she did not know nor had she had 
any contact with the Darlings. However, during the Columbus hearing, she 
learned that Mrs. Darling's former name was Barbara Ann Springer. As Dr. 
Dodd flew back to New York, that name kept presenting itself to her mind. On 
arrival in New York, she cheeked through he old files and found Mrs. Darling's 
letter. 

It will be recalled that Bereniece Baldwin testified at the Columbus hearing that 
she met Barbara Ann Springer Darling and her sister, Florence Webster, at the 
1944 national convention of the Communist Party in Michigan, and that both were 
delegates. It should be further noted that Bereniece Baldwin testified that only 
delegates of the Communist Party were permitted to attend such conventions, 
that Barbara Ann Springer Darling attended said convention as a delegate and, as 
chairman of a committee, rendered a report on the political activities of the 
party. 

Gordon H. Scherek, 



Sec p. 18.SS fcT photographic reproduction of document. 

1837 



1838 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE COLUMBUS, OHIO, AREA 

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INDEX 



INDIVIDUALS 

Page 

Allison, Helen (Mrs. Winter) 1832 

Amter, Israel 1745 

Anderson, James 1838 

Baldwin, Bereniece "Tob.y"__ 1739, 1825, 1827, 1828, 1829-1835 (testimony), 1837 

Beiswenger, A 1838 

Bevis, Howard 1778, 1800-1802 

Boas, Franz 17G4 

Boyd, Gerald 1838 

Braunlich, Art 1838 

Browder, Earl 1746 

Bush, Robert H 1804, 1805. 1807-1810. 1815, 1820-1822 

Chapman, Mr 1782 

Dallin, Dave 1772 

Darling, Barbara Ann (see cZso Barbara Ann Springer) 1783-1795 (testimony), 

1796, 1830, 1831, 1834, 1835, 1837 

Darling, Byron Thorwell 1778-1782, 

1786, 1787, 1795-1828 (testimony) , 1827, 1828, 1831 

Dembski, Stanley 1831 

Devine, Samuel 1739, 1799, 1835, 1836 

Dodd. Bella V 1741-1777 (testimony), 1837. 1838 

Dombrowski, Ruth 1790, 1791 

Dombrowski, Thomas F. X 1789, 1790 

Einstein, Albert 1764, 1801, 1817 

Emmons, Lloyd C 1781, 1782 

Fagan, Peter 1815 

Fagan, Sarah 1815 

Finklestein, Moe 1762, 1764 

Fletcher, William 1838 

Forer, Joseph 1779, 1783-1795, 1823-182S 

Foster, William Z 17G1 

Frank, Richard 1775 

Gainor. Charles 1806-1808, 1810, 1815, 1820, 1822, 1828 

Ganley, Nat 1S88 

Garrett, Mr. {see also E. R. Gewirts) 1820 

Gauss, Christian 1764 

Gerson, Simon 1743, 1744 

Gewirts, Edward Robert (Garrett) 1810-1812, 1815, 1820 

Gold, Ben 1786 

Grecor, Pressley 1838 

Green, Gil 1743, 1745, 174r 

Gregurek, Frank 1812, 1813, 1816, 1820, 1821 

Gregurek, Goldie 1812,1813, 1820, 1821 

Harris, James C 1778, 1779, 1780, 1800 

Higdon, Hoke 1838 

Hiss, Alger 18.37 

Hoover, J. Edgar 1741, 1761 

Hurst, Willie 1838 

Isaacs, Sidney 1739, 1799, 1835 

Kohl, Adeline 1838 

Kruzlo, Leo J 1838 

Lautner, Johnny 1760 

Lawrence, David — 1817 

Lockner. Anna May 1787 

1839 



1840 INDEX 

Page 

Luxon, Norval Neil 1777-1780 (testimony) 

Maisenburg, Riflta 1838 

Martin, William 1813 

Matles, Eben 1785 

Matles, James 1785, 1786 

Maxwell, Matilda 1838 

McKie, Bill 1838 

Miller, Steve (alias for J. Peters) 1753 

Needleman, Isadore 1814 

Neilsen, H. H 1782 

Norman, Bill 1748 

O'Hair, Richard F 1793 

Peters, J. (alias Steve Miller) 1752,1753 

Philbrick, Herbert 1776 

Rieger, Frank 1807 

Rieger, Goldie 1807 

Ross, Charlotte 1838 

Scatterly, Mr 1836 

Shapiro, Harold 1786 

Silverman. Harriett 1746 

Simons, Edward 1813, 1814, 1823 

Smith, Gerald 1809 

Sova, John 1821 

Spencer, Tom 1838 

Springer, Barbara Ann {see also Barbara Ann Darling) 1787, 

1830, 1831, 1837, 1838 

Svvanstrom, Monsignor 1763 

Taft, Lois (Mrs. Arthur Wright) 1812 

Tann, A. J 1792 

Toohey, Pat 1838 

Trachtenberg, Alexander 1771 

Van Dusen, L. J 1787 

Van Dnsen, Mabel 1787 

Webster, Flora 1823-1828 (testimony), 1831, 1833, 1837 

Webster, Williard Parker (Ben) 1824,1827 

White, David 1838 

Williams. Prof. Dudley 1781,1782 

Williams. Fred 1838 

Winter, Helen Allison 1832 

Winter, Mr 1832 

Woodward, Claude 1739, 1799, 1836 

Wright, Arthur 1811, 1812, 1819, 1820, 1823 

Wright. Lois (formerly Lois Taft) 1812,1820,1823 

ORGANIZATIONS 

American Association of University Professors 1757 

American Committee .for Democracy and Intellectual Freedom 1762 

American Federation of Labor 1742, 1745, 1753, 1755, 1767 

American Federation of Labor, New York 1744 

American Federation of Teachers 1742, 1753, 1755, 1767 

American Labor Party 1767 

American League Against War and Fascism 1752 

Anti-Fascist Literature Committee _1746 

Central Trades and Labor Council 1744, 1755 

Columbia University 1742 

Congress of Industrial Organizations 1755, 1758, 1763, 1767, 1785, 1786, 1824 

Federal Bureau of Investigation 1837 

Harvard University 1804, 1805, 1809, 1821 

Hunter College 1742, 1747, 1753, 1776 

International Fur and Leather Workers' Union of America 1786, 1788, 1824 

Kansas State Teachers College 1784 

Mexico Citv College , 1784 

Michigan State College 1781, 1782, 1796, 1815, 1816, 1819 

National Federation of Labor 1755 

New York City College 1753 



INDEX 1841 

Fage 

New York Federation of Teachers 1742 

New York State Federation of Labor 1744, 1755 

New York Teacher's Union 1742, 1753-1755, 1763, 1775, 177G 

New York University 1742 

Ohio State University 1777-1784. 

1788-1791, 1796, 1797, 1799-1801, 1803 

Pennsylvania State College 1796 

Progressive Party 1767 

University of Connecticut 1774 

University of Illinois 1796 

University of Michigan State 1796, 1802, 1805-1811 

University of Pittsburgh 1806, 1821 

University of Virginia 1775 

University of Wisconsin 1784, 1788, 1789, 1796 

United Automobile Workers, CIO , 1824 

United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America 1785, 1786, 1788 

Yale University 1796, 1802 

PUBLICATIONS 

The Communist 1774, 1775 

Daily Worker 1751, 1756 

Glos Ludowy 1789, 1790 

Lansing State Journal 1813 



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