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Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the State of Michigan. Hearings"

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" INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 

STATE OF MICHIGAN— Part 1 

(DETROIT— Education) 



HEARINGS 

J /I BEFORE THE 

' COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE or REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-THIED CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



APRIL 30, MAY 3, AND 4, 1954 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
INCLUDING INDEX 





UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
48861 VeASHINGTON : 1954 



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Boston Public Library- 
Superintendent of Documents 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
United States House of Repkesentatives 

HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois, Chairman 

;RNARD W. KEARNEY, New York FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania 

•NALD L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri 

T CLARDY, Michigan CLYDE DOYLE, California 

iRDON H. SCHERER, Ohio JAMES B. FKAZIER, Ja., Tennessee 

Robert L. Kunzig, Counsel 

Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel 

Thomas W. Beale^ Sr., Chief Clerk, 

Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 

Courtney E. Owens, Acting Chief Investigator 

II 



CONTENTS 



April 30, 1954, testimony of— Page 

Lawrence R. Klein 4991 

Francis Martin Daly, Jr 5002 

May 3, 1954, testimony of — 

Gerald I. Harrison 5012 

Irving Stein 5036 

Sidney W. Graber 5049 

Harold Rosen 5052 

Tom Ellis Bryant 5057 

George Miller 5063 

Blanche Northwood 5070 

May 4, 1954, Shirley Rapoport 6081 

Index J 

in 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 



(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) Tlie Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- 
tee, is autliorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in tlie United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propo- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks 
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and 
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any neces- 
sary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together, with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such Chairman or member. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 83D CONGRESS 

House Resolution 5, January 3, 1953 
******* 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 
the following standing committees : 

******* 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

******* 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American Activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 

VI 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 

STATE OF MICHIGAN— PAET 1 

(Detroit— Education) 



FBIDAY, APRIL 30, 1954 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee or the Committee on 

Un-American Activities, 

Detroit, Michigan. 

executive session 1 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to recess, at 10 : 05 in room 1786, Hotel Fort Shelby, 
Hon. Kit Clardy (acting chairman) , presiding. 

Committee member present : Representative Kit Clardy. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Donald 
T. Appell and W. Jackson Jones, investigators. 

Mr. Clardy. The hearing will resume. Do you solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Klein. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. Be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF LAWRENCE R. KLEIN 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Klein. Lawrence R. Klein. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Klein, it is the practice of the committee to 
advise every witness that they have the right to consult counsel during 
the course of testimony if they so desire. I note that you do not have 
counsel with you, so I assume you are willing to proceed without 
counsel. 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Klein? 

Mr. Klein. Omaha, Nebr., September 14, 1920. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
formal educational training has been ? 

Mr, Klein. I have high-school graduation, 2 years at Los Angeles 
City College, 2 years at University of California, Berkeley, with a 
batchelor of arts; and approximately 2 years at the Massachusetts 
Institute of Technology, doctor of philosophy. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you receive your master's degree 

Mr. Klein. No master's degree. 



^ Released by the committee. 

4991 



4992 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive a master's degree in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Klein. I did not receive a master's degree anywhere. Los 
Angeles was one of the California junior colleges and gave some 
degree which is not well recognized. I forget the name of it. 

Mr, Tavenner. When did you receive your bachelor of arts degree 
from the University of California ? 

Mr. Klein. In 1942, the spring of 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you receive your doctor's degree from 
the Massachusetts Institute of Technology i 

Mr. Klein. The fall of 1944. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the connnittee, please, the nature of 
your employment since the fall of 1944 ? 

Mr. Klein. I worked as a research assistant at the Cowles Com- 
mission for Research and Economics at the University of Chicago 
directly after I left Massachusetts Tech. Part of that time, one of 
those years, I was a fellow- of the Social Science Research Council. 
That must have been the academic year 1945-46. Then I left the 
Cowles Commission in June 1947 and went as a consultant to the 
Canadian Government for the summer months, and in the fall of 
1947 I was a fellow of the Social Science Research Council again and 
traveled for a year, and then in the fall of 1948 I was a research 
associate of the National Bureau of Economic Research, and I held 
that for 2 years, but in the fall of 1949 I also was a research asso- 
ciate of the survey research center of the University of Michigan. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your employment in the fall of 1949 ? 

Mr. Klein. I had a joint appointment during that year. I was 
partially emploj^ed by the National Bureau of Economic Research, 
continuing from previously, and partially by the survey research cen- 
ter of the University of Michigan. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain so employed ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I have continued the University of Michigan 
appointment which currently runs, and the national bureau appoint- 
ment terminated a year later. That would be the fall of 1950, and 
at the University of Michigan I took on added duties in lecturing on 
economics, which I hold now. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever engage in the work of an instructor 
at the Samuel Adams School ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that? 

Mr. Klein. It must have been the fall of 1944. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was in Boston, was it not ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the circum- 
stances under which you became employed as an instructor at the 
Samuel Adams School ? 

Mr. Klein. I was first associated with a predecessor of the Samuel 
Adams School called the Labor School of Boston or Greater Boston, 
I am not sure of the exact title. I didn't teach there. I was the 
chairman of a series of lectures, about 1 a month or 2 a month, which 
ran in the spring of the year preceding the opening of the Samuel 
Adams School. The Samuel Adams School opened in the fall, and 
I think it w^as more or less a continuation of the other school, al- 
though on a much larger scale, and I simply continued that associa- 
tion and gave the course — I taught at the Samuel Adams wSchool. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 4993 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the Samuel Adams School a reorganization of 
the Labor School of Boston, continuing with the same organizational 
setup ; that is, the same official directors and faculty ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I think the Samuel Adams School was much 
larger, so it had many new persons associated with it, had different 
quarters. I don't know very much about what went on at this Labor 
School of Boston because I went there only for the sessions that I 
chaired and never saw it, and I don't know what they did other nights 
of the week if they did anything. I went only one certain night. 
Now, at the Samuel Adams School it was on a much larger scale with 
many courses and many faculty people. But I think it must have 
had the same director because I was asked to teach at the Samuel 
Adams School as a consequence of having been associated with the 
Labor School in Boston. 

Mr. Tavenner. What I am trying to ascertain is whether or not 
the operation of the Samuel Adams School was virtually the operation 
of the Labor School of Boston but under a different name ? 

Mr. Klein. They taught much more. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that the essential difference was the change 
in name rather than a change in management and control 'i 

Mr. Klein. Well, I don't think the management and control neces- 
sarily changed, but the scope changed very much, and I am sure that 
the Samuel Adams School being on a bigger scale required more people 
to manage it, so it must have had new registrars and new secretarial 
facilities; they had new offices. The Labor School of Boston was a 
very informal affair. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were the circumstances under which you were 
employed originally at the Labor School of Boston ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, as I recall, 1 day some men at MIT whom I 
knew — and I think they were probably people whom I knew in the 
teachers union at MIT — the teachers union at MIT was small, but 
I remember Struik was the head of it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that Prof. Dirk Struik ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. And Levinson was in it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall his first name ? 

Mr. Klein. Harold, Harold Freeman. They knew^ me from the 
Teachers Union. There weren't people around MIT at the time except 
military students were mainly in the military, and the faculty was 
very much depleted. I think they Avanted somebody quickly to take 
over the chairmanship of this course, and I was in the economics de- 
partment. They knew me — and I don't know which one — I suspect 
it was Struik, but I couldn't say for sure. Somebody asked me if I 
would take over this chairmanship, and I think whoever asked me to 
do that was somehow in contact with the Labor School. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Levinson ^ appeared as a witness before the 
Committee on Un-American Activities and admitted his former Com- 
munist Party membership. Were you aware when you were at the 
Massachusetts Institute of Technology that Mr. Levinson was a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Klein. No. I knew that he was interested in economics be- 
cause he was a mathematician. I took many courses in the depart- 
ment of mathematics and had a lot of discussions with him, and he 



1 Datp of Norinan Lovinson's tpstimony referred to was April 23, 1953. See Commu- 
ni.st Methods of Infiltration, Education — Part 4, p. 1073. 



4994 COMMUNIST ACTWITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

was interested in Marxist economics, and that is all I knew about him. 
I had many discussions with him on the subject, but I don't laiow at 
all about his affiliations. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you observe while at the Labor School of Bos- 
ton or at the Samuel Adams School the exertion of any influence or 
control by the Communist Party ? 

Mr. KxEiN. No, not anything I could identify. The only indica- 
tion would be they didn't like very well the course I was teaching, and 
1 don't know, other than an inference, I guess, on my part, that it was 
not traditional Marxist thinking, but I don't know of any official rela- 
tionship with the Communist Party or any other organization. I 
simply gave my course, saw my students. I would say that the people 
in my class, as I recall, argued a lot, and some of them may have been 
Marxists, some of them may have been Communists, I don't know, and 
as far as the director of the school is concerned, I couldn't say. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say the course was not well received by the 
management of the school during the period you were teaching it. 
Does that apply to both the Labor School of Boston and the Samuel 
Adams School ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, at the Labor School of Boston I didn't teach ; I 
just was chairman, and I couldn't say. 

Mr. Tavenner. From whom did the criticism of originate ? 

Mr. Ejl,ein. Well, there was a woman, I don't know her name, who 
was more or less the business manager. I think she was also the 
same one who did the dirty work — by "dirty work" I mean all the 
arranging and seating of schedules and classes and getting people 
there and registering students. She came to one of my lectures one 
night, sat in, and afterwards said something that I wasn't giving 
material that was sufficiently basic, and I wasn't quite sure what she 
meant except I was of the impression that she thought that I wasn't 
teaching Marxist economics, but that is only an inference. She didn't 
l?ke what I was teaching. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give her title more definitely ? 

Mr. Klein. Oh, I don't know what her title would be. If I would 
describe it, I would say she was the business manager. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you affiliated in any manner with the Com- 
munist Party at that time other than your teaching at this school? 

Mr. Klein. I had no affiliation with the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at a later date assume Avork in Chicago ? 

Mr. Klein. Professional work ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. KJLEiN. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your professional work at 
that time in Chicago ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I had the task of — which problem I am still work- 
ing on — of building a mathematical model of the United States 
economy and getting statistical estimates of this mathematical struc- 
ture. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you in Chicago engaged in that type 
of work ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I left Massachusetts Tech during the fall of 1944, 
went directly to Chicago and stayed there until June 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time did you resume 8,ny of 
your work in teaching ? 



COJVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 4995 

Mr. Klein. Are you referring to the teaching at the Samuel Adams 
School? 

Mr. Tavenner. I mean teaching in any school. 

Mr. Klehst. Well, you see I taught courses to undergrnduates at 
MIT also. I was a teaching fellow or the equivalent thereof, and I 
didn't continue that at Chicago. I was purely engaged in research, 
but I did continue in a sense the teaching at the Samuel Adams School 
in that. I taught at the Abraham Lincoln School in Chicago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Over what period of time did you teach in the 
Abraham Lincoln School in Chicago? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I suppose it began a few months after I arrived 
in Chicago. That would probably be early 1945. I gave some courses —  
I gave odd courses there, and I didn't have any regular schedule. I 
suppose I gave some in 1946. Now I don't know if I gave any in 1947, 
too, before I left Chicago. I think most of that must have been during 
the years 1945 and 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of the courses that you con- 
ducted in the Abraham Lincoln School? 

Mr. Klein. Well, at the time I talked on the issues of the day, 
courses on the issues of the day, which were price control, the mean- 
ing of the Bretton Woods Agreement on International Trade, the full 
employment bill as it was then discussed at the time for postwar eco- 
nomic planning, and the Beveridge plan and the LTnited States coun- 
terpart which would have been one of the social-security bills that was 
being considered. Sometime I may have discussed also things like 
Dumbarton Oaks or the San Francisco Conference, but they were 
mainly on current issues of the day, and the course I gave in Boston 
was similar to that, but I also gave some sort of analysis of the theory 
underlying the economy which as economists we would call the 
Keynesian theory of employment and gave some of the same material, 
I am sure, at the Abraham Lincoln School. I also gave lectures, not 
to a regular school, but I would get a call from the school that they had 
something in the neighborhood somewhere in the Chicago area and 
they lacked an instructor for that night, would I take it over. I 
was free sometime I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were the circumstances under which you took 
part in the teaching of courses at the Abraham Lincoln School? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I simply got a phone call one clay from a man 
there. I think his name is Henry Noyes, and he laid out the course 
or told me, "Would you teach such-and-such a think or what would 
you suggest teaching," and he had a balance between economics and 
politics and language and other courses and asked me what I would 
contribute to this. I don't know how he called me, but I suspect it 
was because I taught at the Samuel Adams School. He asked me to 
teach, and I gave these courses. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you paid for the work? 

Mr. Klein. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did anything occur during the period of 3'our work 
with the Abraham Lincoln School to indicate Communist influences 
were being exerted there? 

Mr. Klein. Well, one thing is evident — well, two things. One of 
the directors or codirectors of the school was generally believed to be 
a Communist, William Patterson. The other thing is that after 1946 
or so the teaching changed because the Communist policy changed, and 



4996 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

there was an emphasis at one time on thino:s like Dumbai-ton Oaks 
and San Francisco — well, I am not sure of the exact date — tilings of 
the natnre of Dumbarton Oaks and the San Francisco Conference, and 
then this sort of thing was dropped at the school, but this is as much 
as I know about the Communist influence. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you explain a little more delinitelj , please, 
what you mean by the teaching changing. Do you mean that it 
changed in accordance with the change in the Communist Party line 
generally ? 

Mr. Klein. Generally, yes. That is to say, when I first came there, 
there was a great emphasis on teaching courses — as I recall, it was 
just around the time of the Dumbarton Oaks Conference, and there 
were materials available, pamphlets and things which students took 
up, and then courses like that were discontinued. I suppose that 
could be obtained, inferred, by studying the catalog and looking at 
courses offered. 

Mr. Tavenner. You noticed, did you, a difference in approach by 
the management of the school to current problems ? 

Mr. Klein. Only in that respect. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become a member of the Communist Party 
during the period of your teaching at this school, the Abraham Lin- 
coln School? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the circum- 
stances under which that occurred ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I am not sure whether the direct line is through 
the Abraham Lincoln School or through the Jewish People's Frater- 
nal Order, of which I was a member, but they both occurred at the 
same time, and one night after a meeting, either I was the chairman 
or the speaker, I don't know which, we were having coffee afterward. 
I was approached and asked if I would give a course in the neighbor- 
hood near where I lived in Chicago on Marxist economics which 
I was 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that one of the neighborhood groups tliat you 
spoke about earlier in your testimony ? 

Mr. Klein. No, no ; the neighborhood groups were classes, I think, 
of the Abraham Lincoln School given at a different nddress, but this 
neighborhood group later turned out to be the neighborhood club of 
the Communist Party, but I didn't know it at the time. I was asked 
if I woulld give a course in Marxist economics, and at the time I was 
working on this general problem of, first, adult education, tliat you 
could teach fairly complicated ideas to adults who weren't regular 
students, who didn't have a lot of formal education, and I was work- 
ing on the problem of the relationship between Marxist economics and 
wliat we might call conventional economics and what also you might 
call Keynesian economics, and I was interested in this challenge be- 
cause I developed what I thought were some new ideas on this rela- 
tionship, and I said I would try to teach this course in Marxist eco- 
nomics. Then I was told 2 weeks later or sometime later, well, no, all 
the people coming to this class are Communists, members of the Com- 
munist Party, and it wouldn't be right for someone who is not a mem- 
ber of the C'ommunist Party to teach Marxist economics to them. I 
didn't comment, and then shortly after a bid came that if I would 
join the Communist Party, 1 would teach this course, and then it 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 4997 

would be all right. I did, and I never did teach the course after that. 
Then they never got around to asking me to teach it, and there was 
some teaching going on in the subject, and other people took it over, 
and I don't think my ideas were appreciated on the subject, and so 
I never taught the course. But I was a member. 

Mr. Tavenner. But the argument was advanced that you would 
have to become a member of the Communist Party in order to carry on 
this work in which you were interested ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. In this local group of people ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then I understand after you joined the Connnunist 
Party you were not encouraged to conduct the course ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. I would say even more I was not allowed to, 
because I think there was a course given to the best of my knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. By whom was the course given ? 

Mr. Klein. I don't know. I never attended, so I don't know, but 
I would guess that practically every Communist club has some educa- . 
tional program in which they teach basic Marxist economics, and that 
went on, but I never gave the course, and that was afterward my pre- 
sumption of what I was supposed to do, and I never did it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you explain why things happened as they did 
with you ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I think, looking in retrospect, that they wanted 
me to join because they thought 1 would be useful, but they didn't 
like my ideas about economic theory because they were not orthodox 
Marxist ideas, and they wanted only orthodox Marxist ideas taught. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any connection between this invitation 
to you to join the party and conduct a course in the neighborhood 
group and your work as an instructor or teacher in the Abraham 
Lincoln School ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, the only connection I can see is — whether it was 
a student in the course — I said at the beginning I wasn't sure whether 
it was somebody from the Abraham Lincoln School or somebody after 
a meeting of the Jewish People's Fraternal Order who came to see 
and asked me to teach it — it could have been one of the students at 
the Abraham Lincoln meeting or somebody from the JPFO meeting, 
but there was no official school tieup ; that "is, the officials of the school 
never suggested this. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the name of the person who made the 
overtures to you ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, as I recall now, there were two persons involved. 
I wasn't sure previously whether it was one or the other, and now I 
believe that two persons originally made the suggestion, both of them 
women, one named Shirley Stern; the other one, I think, dropped out 
after the original approach, and I don't think she carried on this dis- 
cussion. As I recall, I did all my dealings with Shirley Stern. The 
other one's name I don't know her last name, but I think her first name 
was Ann. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the person mentioned by you a member of 
your class and also a member of the Jewish People's Fraternal Order « 

Mr. Klein. Well, Shirley Stern, I think, was a member of the 
Jewish People's Fraternal Order. I can't be sure of that, but at 
least she used to come to their meetings, and she was not a formal 



4998 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

member of the class at the Abraham Lincohi School, but she may have 
attended some of the meetings there. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. The Jewish People's Fraternal Order was a branch 
of the IWO,Mvas it not ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you a member of that organization, 
if you were a member ? 

Mr. Kleix. I was. I think I joined in 1945, and I think I stayed 
in until about midyear, late spring or midyear, of 1947 when I left 
Chicago. 

Mr. Taatenner. Why did you get out of it ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I left Chicago, and I left all past associations. 
I quit all organizations I belonged to. 

Mr. Tavenner. '\Vliat do you mean to infer from that, if anything, 
the fact that you left all past organizational affiliations ? 

Mr. Klein. I stopped being a Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this group of the Communist Party to which 
you were assigned known by name ? 

Mr. Klein. It was known by name, but I am not positive of the 
name. The best I could identify it would be South Shore Club or 
South Side Club. I know it was somehow associated with the neigh- 
borhood. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many members did it have ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, it is practically impossible for me to say because 
the only way I would judge would be by who came to meetings. I 
went to a few meetings ; I went irregularly, and I don't think the same 
people came every time, and I don't think they had a very large turn- 
out. It was not a hard-working, enthusiastic group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall who the leaders of that group were? 

Mr. Klein. Well, at these meetings they went to — that would be my 
only knowledge of them — at these meetings nobody ever used anything 
but first name. Some peope I did know their names. I haven't seen 
them for 7 years. I don't know what they are now, and I think the 
man who used to be chairman of the meetings was chairman at the 
time, was named Tony, but I am not sure. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. Are you uncertain as to whether 
that person was chairman or are you uncertain as to whether that 
person was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Klein. I am uncertain about his name. There was a man who 
strikes me as having had the name Tony who chaired all the meetings. 
He was the chairman at these meetings. I am thinking of a man — I 
sat in the audience, and I saw him as chairman. I recall his name to 
have been Tony. I never knew his last name, and there was such a 
man who always, at the time I was there, was chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you pay dues ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Over how long a period of time did you pay dues? 

Mr. Klein. I paid dues once when I joined, and I made, I think, 
one renewal. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a member of this group of 
the Communist Party ? 



* International Workers' Order. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 4999 

Mr, Klein. Well, it depends on how one defines membership. If 
you define membership as attending meetings and taking part in their 
program, I would say that I didn't do anything after the spring of 
1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many meetings did you attend during that 
period of time, according to your best recollection ? 

Mr. Klein. I would guess about 6. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you left Chicago in 1947, did you not ? 

Mr. Klein. In June. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you continued to take part in the activities of 
the organization up until practically the time you left Chicago ? 

Mr. Klein. About April or May, sometime like that. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your reason for leaving Chicago ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I finished a leg of the work I was doing, and a 
very attractive offer of a challenging job in the summer for the 
Canadian Government, which I wanted very much to undertake, and I 
had a very attractive fellowship for travel the next year which I 
wanted to take. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the nature of 
the activities of the group of the Communist Party that you became 
a member of ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, at the time I was a member there were large 
strikes. I think there was a big steel strike, packinghouse strike, in 
Chicago. This was shortly after the war, and they served coffee and 
doughnuts to the strikers, solicited funds for strike benefits, sold copies 
of the Daily Worker to strikers, became interested in neighborhood 
problems ; if there would be something that smelled of anti-Semitism 
in the neighborhood, they would take up the argument. This is about 
all I ever saw going on. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you take part in those various activities? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I probably contributed some funds for strikers. I 
didn't ever sell copies of the Daily Worker, and I didn't ever serve 
coffee and doughnuts to strikers. About all I ever did was to go to 
some meetings and sit in on them. Oh, there was one more thing: 
there were congressional elections in the fall of 1946, and I think the 
Communist Party supported in our district the Democratic Party 
candidates and worked on the elections, solicited, rang doorbells. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did they do that in a way to openly disclose Com- 
munist Party membership or the fact that it was the Communist Party 
that was taking this action ? 

Mr. Klein. No, no; I think they probably worked through local 
organizations. All the Communist Party members were probably — a 
lot of them were — members of other organizations, and they simply 
worked hard in these other organizations for the congressional 
candidates. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has heard evidence from time to 
time that the Communist Party insisted that its members become ac- 
tively interested in and to join various mass organizations. Will you 
tell the committee whether you observed that attitude on the part of 
the Communist Party at the time you were a member of this group ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I was a member of a lot of organizations before 
I came into the Communist Party, so my own personal experience was 
not a pressure for me to join organizations, but my own observations 
would be that members of the Communist Party were active in organ- 



5000 COAIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

izations, and they would be active in, I guess at the time it was the 
American Youth for Democracy, or the local voting group in Illinois, 
or the CIO-PAC activities or in the JPFO or whatever local organiza- 
tions they could get into. 

Mr. Tavtcnner. Do you know whether this activity on the part of 
the Communist Party was designed to impart the Communist Party 
line or principles to the groups in which the individuals were working, 
including 

Mr. Klein. Not the basic principles. 

Mr. Tavenner. Including the foreign and international aims of the 
party ? 

Mr. Klein. Well, I don't know if I could say specifically. They 
did not teach Marxist theory in these groups. This would be a basic 
principle of the Communist Party. Whether affairs of the moment 
were stressed or not, I would guess yes, that certainly any Communist 
being a member of another organization would follow the Conniiuiiist 
Party policy on any issue and try to advocate it in that organization, 
or on a candidate. I know of no official pressures. 

Mr. Tavenner. Could you state also whether you observed that the 
work being done by Communist Party members in mass organizations 
was being done also for the purpose of recruiting new members to the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Klein. I "think all of their activities were toward building up 
at the time and always guided toward recruitment. I think they 
probably looked over a person and decided whether they wanted to 
recruit him or not, but I suppose that they ahvays were trying to get 
members. This was my own experience. I was a member of another 
organization, other organizations, and I was approached by the Com- 
munist Party through them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Klein. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you withdraw from the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Klein. I ceased all association with the Communist Party 
after — well, at the latest, after I left Chicago, and at the earliest some 
weeks or a month before. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your reason for leaving the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Klein. Well, at the time I found meetings thoroughly un- 
interesting and dull ; it was a waste of time ; they did nothing. 1 was 
interested in socialism, and I thought the Communist Party was a 
vehicle towards socialism and decided that it really wasn't. I decided 
that they didn't deal honestly and fairly with me, and I didn't like 
them. I decided that the Communist Party of the United States w^as 
made up of very mediocre people, and I didn't particularly want to 
associate with them. As the year grew on, after I left, I was very 
much disturbed by what happened in Czechoslovakia because most 
academic people in this country are very much attached to Benes and 
Masaryk and didn't like to see this thing happen to them. I wrote 
a book, which I was writing at the time, and which was severely at- 
tacked by the Communist Party in one of their theoretical journals, 
and I decided that even though socialism was a desirable goal, there 
are other goals in life, and it wasn't worthwhile to j)ay the higii price 
of having bloodshed and violence. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5001 

Mr. Tavenner. By that do you mean that you arrived at the poinf 
where you differed on ideological grounds with the concept of the 
Communist Party i 

Mr. Klein. Yes, and humanistic grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you as of now convinced that the objectives that 
the Communist Party is aiming toward are wrong in principle, in 
theory, and in practice ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. We have had a great deal of testimony from many 
witnesses to the general effect that the Communists have used every 
group and every person they could possibly reach for no purpose other 
than to further their own ends and that they had no genuine concern 
for the workingman Avhen they go into Labor unions; they have no 
concern for the ministry when they seek to infiltrate there; for the 
teaching profession when they seek to infiltrate there; that actually 
their only aim and objective is to use those gi'oups ancl the people in 
it to further the cause of open revolution and the overthrow of the 
Government by force and violence in due time. Does that pretty 
well coincide with the conclusions that you reached ? 

Mr. Klein. I was used by the Communist Party. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you agree that that is the objective and that is the 
plan and that is the method of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give the committee any additional infor- 
mation regarding the activities of the Communist Party in Chicago 
in which the committee would be interested? 

Mr. Klein. I saw very little of it, and my contact with it was with 
-this neighborhood group. The neighborhood group did nothing of 
interest, didn't accomplish anything. I don't know what the central 
oJfRce was doing, and I can't think of anything offhand that I know 
about the workings of the Communist Party other than what I read 
in the daily press and journals. As a matter of fact, my own con- 
clusion is that nuich more was going on in the Communist Party 
than I realized at the time, and I learned much more about it after 
I was out of it than while I was in it. 

Mr. Clardy. You are beginning to sound like one of those several 
witnesses — very learned gentlemen, by the way, I have in mind a 
few of the Ph. D.'s and others who appeared in Washington who have 
said they felt rather silly after they got out to think that they had been 
more or less duped and that their intellectual curiosity hadn't been 
enough early enough to expose what they later discovered; in other 
words, they had just been made fools of. That sounds about like your 
own case, am I right ? 

Mr. Klein. Yes. Well, you see, many people at an earlier stage 
in life, say 5 or 10 years ago, had the same ideas that I had, but in my 
own case I worked very hard when I went to school as an under- 
graduate and had no time for campus political activities, and it was 
only after I completed my studies — I was somewhat older than most 
people, still in my twenties — that I took up the ideas then that a 
lot of people did much earlier. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. I have none either. 

I will recess the hearing for 5 minutes. 

And you are excused, sir. 

48861— 54— pt. 1 -2 



5002 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

(Whereupon, at 11 a. m., the hearing was recessed to reconvene at 
11 : 05 a. m.) 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 10 a. m., the hearing reconvened. Representa- 
tive Kit Chirdy (acting chairman) being present.) 

Mr. Clardy. The hearing will be resumed. 

Counsel, will you call the next witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Francis Martin Dalj^^, Jr. 

Mr. Clardy. If you will stand. Will you raise your right hand ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will 
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Daly. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. Be seated. Proceed. 

TESTIMONY OF FRANCIS MARTIN DALY, JR. 

Mr. Tavenner. "VVliat is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Daly. Francis Martin Daly, Jr. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Mr. Daly, it is the practice of the committee to ad- 
vise all witnesses that they have the right to confer with counsel at any 
time during the period of their examination if they so desire. It is 
noted that you do not have counsel with you, so I assume that you 
are willing to proceed without counsel? 

Mr. Daly. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that correct? 

Mr. Daly. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. May I interject here? I have a considerable knowl- 
edge, of course, of what the investigation has developed, and I want 
to put him further at ease to tell him that based on what I have, I feel 
quite kindly toward you, sir, and I don't want you to feel that there is 
going to be anything here except an effort on our part to be helpful, 
and you have no cause to be alarmed or have any fears about what 
we will do. Go ahead. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Daly ? 

Mr. Daly. In Detroit on February 23, 1924. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived in Detroit all your life with the 
exception of the period of time you were in the Armed Forces ? 

Mr. Daly. Yes, sir, all my life. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Will you tell the committee first, please, what 
your educational training has been? 

Mr. Daly. I went to Detroit schools, elementary, secondary and 
Wayne University, a bachelor's, and received a master's there also. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you receive your master's degree at 
Wayne University? 

Mr. Daly. I think it was in February 1951. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the period of time that you served in the 
Armed Forces? 

Mr. Daly. The dates? 

Mr. Tavenner. The approximate dates. 

Mr. Daly. July 1942 until June 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you serve overseas? 

Mr. Daly. Yesj 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand that you served in China during the 
period of the war? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5003 

Mr. Daly. In India. 

Mr. TA^^EN]s^ER. India? 

Mr. Daly. Yes. 

Mr. Taat:xner. 'What was your organization ? 

Mr. Daly. The 10th Air Force, operated into Burma out of India. 

Mr. TA"\T:]srNER. Were you wounded in the course of your service? 

Mr. Daly. I was. 

Mr, TA'ST:x]srER. I understand also that you were a prisoner of war 
and were held by the Japanese in a prison camp; is that true? 

Mr. Daly. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you a prisoner of war and where 
were you held as a prisoner ? 

Mr. Daly. For approximately 18 months I was held in Rangoon, 
Rangoon central jail, I believe it was called, right in the city of 
Rangoon, Burma. 

Mr. Tavenner. How soon after your release as a prisoner of war 
did you return to the United States ? 

Mr. Daly, I was released on May 3, 1945, and I returned in July, 
June, or July, the end of June, July, of that same year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you resume your educational training at once 
on your return? 

Mr. Daly. No, I was still in the service until the following year, 
1946. I was in the General Hospital for awhile. / 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you receive your honorable discharge ? 

Mr. Daly. The date is June 24, 1 believe, 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. How soon after that did you resume your educa- 
tional training, if you did ? 

Mr. Daly. The following September. 

Mr. Tavenner, You remained in school then from the fall of 1946 
until February 1951 ? 

Mr. Daly, That is correct, yes, 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat has been the nature of your profession, occu- 
pation, or trade since 1951? 

Mr. Daly. I have been a schoolteacher at the River Rouge — I have 
taught one semester in Detroit, in Detroit elementary until June 1951, 
and then I went to River Rouge High School in September of 1951. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you remained in that employment since that 
time ? 

Mr. Daly. I have. 

Mr. Ta"\tenner, In the course of the investigation conducted by the 
committee staff it has been ascertained that you became a member of 
the Communist Party during the period of time that you were a 
student at Wayne University ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Daly. It is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Daly. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a member ? 

Mr. Daly. Until — well, from December, sometime in December 1947, 
imtil sometime in June of 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the circum- 
stances under which you became a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Daly. You mean the mechanics of how I got in ? 



5004 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Tavenneu. Well, I not only mean the mechanics, although I 
didn't state so, but I also mean to include the reasons for your 
becoming a member. 

Mr. Daly. Well, I joined a campus organization or an organization 
that had been barred from the campus, the AYD 

Mr. Tavenner. Let us spell that out instead of using the initials, 
American Youth for Democracy. 

Mr, Daly. Yes. The meetings were about modern day problems, 
that is, the AYD meetings, and at this period I was fairly disgusted 
with war and thought — still do, as a matter of fact — that it is not the 
best policy that countries can follow, and John Cherveny, who was, 
I understood, the chairman of this AYD, discussed war and the need 
for peace and to build a new world and so forth, and this seemed very 
logical to me, that the need for this was necessary. I think I must 
have expressed to the chairman that I was in accord with that thinking, 
and it tui-ned out that he lived in the student center, and later he 
sent me a letter, as I recall, saying that we had something in common, 
search for peace, and maybe we should get together and talk things 
over, and we did on several occasions, we would have coffee after 
classes. He eventually, of course, broached the subject of my joining 
the Connnunist Party. He said that the aims of the party were peace- 
ful aims. He asked me would I consider joining, and my first reaction 
was no. Later on I began to think about it and — I guess partly curios- 
ity — and eventually I said yes; he continued to ask me to join. 

Mr. x\ppELL. During your conversations with John Cherveny did 
he go to the other programs of the Communist Party, or was his 
emphasis always the antiwar program? 

Mr. Daly. No, he went into other programs. 

Mr. Appell. But during all the conversations he always pointed 
home that which impressed you most, the antiwar program of the 
party ? 

Mr. Daly. Well, that is the feeling that I got; also antidiscrimina- 
tion which I felt was a necessary thing, too; he laid quite a good 
deal of stress on that. 

I remember saying when he asked me one of the times — I didn't 
know anything about his organization, and he said that "We would 
teach you ; we would teach you all about it," and so forth. 

Mr.' Tavenner. In other words, you did not become a member of 
the Communist Party as a result of any training or conviction that you 
had before you actually joined? 

Mr. Daly. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were induced to join and to make a study of 
the Communist Party after becoming a member? 

Mr. Daly. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any connection with the Communist 
Party prior to his couA'ersation with you? 

Afr. Daly. Well, this is just hearsay, I might add; I don't know 
for sure. But while I was in the Army, in the general hospital, I 
met a soldier there who — there was a group of us who palled around, 
but one of them was, I think, sympathetic. Whether he was a mem- 
ber, T don't know. In 1952 wlien the FBI talked to me, they asked me 
alxiut liiiu. Mild I rememl)ered liim. He was a GI ; and so he told me a 
little bit. He never said he was, but when I met Cherveny later, now 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5005 

I look back on it, I realize that they seemed to speak the same 
language. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have been, I understand, to the Federal Bureau 
of Investigation ? 

Mr. Daly. They came to me in the summer, I think, of 1952. 

Mr. Appell. You always cooperated fully to the best of your 
knowledge Avith the Federal Bureau of Investigation? 

Mr. Daly. Yes, sir. I mention this fellow in the Army because — 
you say if I ever had contact, and that is the only one I know of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you assigned to a group of the Communist 
Party after becoming a member? 

Mr. Daly. Yes. 

Mr. Taat5nner. What was the name of that group ? 

Mr. Daly. I am not too sure, but I think it was the Wayne Club. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that a campus club of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Daly. More or less, yes. All the members were students as 
far as I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there any members of the faculty who were 
members of this group ? 

Mr. Daly. None, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where dicl the club meet ? 

Mr. Daly. Well, we met in homes or in the student center. I can 
remember a lot of sort of spontaneous meetings at Webster Hall ; that 
is the student center. 

Mr. Tavenner. Approximately how many of the student body be- 
longed to this group of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Daly. Well, I would say around 8, although I am not sure 
because there seemed to be a lot of people who would attend a meet- 
ing once and not again. I would say about 8, although I really don't 
know for sure. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you learn whether there was any other group 
or unit of the Communist Party on the campus besides the one that 
vou were a member of ^ 

Mr. Daly. I didn't. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Daly, wdien you say 8, are you considering those 
that attended once and maybe not again, or are you considering the 
identity or your recollection of the people who were there at most 
all of the meetings? 

Mr. Daly. Probably most all of the meetings. That stays in my 
mind. 

Mr. Appell. The records of the committee indicate that as far as 
a paper membership is concerned, that that club had registered over 
40 students as belonging to it, and that is why I asked that question. 

Mr. Daly. It could have. The meetings were rather small, 

Mr. Tavenner. Were your meetings addressed from time to time 
by functionaries of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Daly. By functionaries you mean higher ups ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Daly. Only one; that is one higher up that I ever saw, and 
I took him to be what would you call it, coordinator of student affairs 
or something. I can't remember his name — it was Jack Gore. He 
would drop in. He is the only functionary that I would know of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he appear frequently before your group or 
infrequentl}'? 



5006 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Daly. I would say infrequently. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the purpose of his appearance in your 
meetings ? 

Mr. Daly. I don't know exactly — to see how things were going,. 
I guess. It seems to me that lie would say a few things and 
make a point of something. I don't remember him ever giving 
a speech. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the leader or chairman of this group? 

Mr. Daly. As far as I know, the chairman was a Russell Kitto, 
I would say. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you pay dues ? 

Mr. Daly. As I recall it, we did. It was certainly very small. 

Mr. Tavenner. To whom did you pay the dues? 

Mr. Daly. I just don't recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold a position of any character in this 
group ? 

Mr. Daly. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many meetings do you think you attended ? 

Mr. Daly. That would be difficult to say. I tried to think just the 
other day, go over in my mind, and anticipate some of the questions 
you might ask so I could prethink some of these things out, and I 
couldn't even remember whether the meetings were every week or 
every 2 weeks. I just couldn't say how many I did go to. 

Mr. TA^•ENNER. Did the work of this gi'oup continue during the sum- 
mer recess ? 

Mr. Daly. Well, I don't know. I wasn't involved with it during 
the summer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were Marxist studies engaged in by this group ? 

Mr. Daly. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee about that? 

Mr. Daly. The activities of this group, as far as I can recall, were 
mostly a study group. We studied current events and their relation- 
ship to Marxian philosophy. We studied various aspects of the 
Marxist philosophy and applied them to world events. We didn't 
have any of them in writing or anything like that, just discussions. 

Mr. Appell. Did you discuss the text which was known as the 
History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union ? 

Mr. Daly. Well, we might have. I don't recall that particular one. 

Mr. Appell. You probably remember the book, at least one section, 
that stands out in the light of today's history, and that deals with 
just and unjust wars, imperalist wars, the role of the worker in the 
struggles. 

Mr. Daly. You are asking that I remember that part? 

Mr. Appell. Yes. 

Mr. Daly. I just don't. 

Mr. Appell. Did anything happen after you joined the Communist 
Party which placed doubt in your mind as to what the Communist 
Party was really active in or interested in? 

Mr. Daly. Yes, that arrest did ; that is, that raid. I began to realize 
after that — I began to raise some questions in my mind exactly what 
was going on and what was happening, and I certainly didn't want to 
jeopardize my whole career over something that I didn't even believe- 
in. I didn't know what was happening. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5007 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell the committee what you refer to by a raid hav- 
ing been made. 

Mr. Daly. As I recall, we were — this John Cherveny invited myself 
and my stepbrother to a party. What this party was about, it was just 
a group of people drinking, and I figured it was a celebration of some 
kind, although I didn't know exactly what was celebrated, but there 
was a party, and somebody was selling liquor, it turned out later. I 
didn't know that at the time, but somebody was. The police raided it 
because of that reason, and we were all taken to the police station, 
headquarters, and booked. We were found guilty, sentenced and sen- 
tence suspended. 

Mr. Tavenner. What effect did this occurrence have upon your 
attitude toward yoiu- Communist Party membership ? 

Mr. Daey. Well, I must admit that before that I was beginning 
to feel a little bit of discouragement — well, to put it frankly, I just 
wasn't wading through all this philosophy, although I had read a 
lot of books on philosophy, and I like it, but I just didn't seem to be 
dramatic enough or something, but I was slowly becoming dis- 
couraged, and this raid on this party was another thing that sort of 
shocked me. 

Mr. Tavenner. By stating that you were getting discouraged, do 
you mean to indicate you were unable to agree with the Communist 
doctrine as advocated by the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Daly. Well, when I first went in, I thought it might have 
something, something for me. It is difficult to explain this, but 
sort of a personal philosophy which I could live by, something that 
I could believe in. As I recall, in the prison camp a lot of men 
died, and of those who died and those who lived, it seemed to be a 
mental condition. Many men died because they just seemed to give 
up. They didn't have any — I don't know how to explain it any bet- 
ter than this, but they just didn't have anything to live for, it seemed, 
no personal philosophy, nothing that they could let be the guide 
of their life, some principles to live by, and I was hoping prob- 
ably I could find those in the party. But I, as I say, I was becoming 
discouraged because I couldn't. 

Mr, Tavenner. You didn't find those things which you hoped to 
find when you joined the Communist Party? 

Mr. Daly. That is right. My discouragement later turned into 
disinterest. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your quest for the principles that you desired ta 
live by which took you into the party also took you out of the 
party ? 

Mr. Daly. That is right. I remember a concern of mine at the 
time was about democracy and Christian principles — and I am speak- 
ing of western civilization now, I mean Europe and America — we have 
these as our principles, I thought, or it seemed that way, and yet 
there were some people who didn't seem to be living by those princi- 
ples; the Germans, for instance. They were Christians, and I be- 
gan to raise doubts in my mind as to whether maybe I needed some 
other principles or something. These things don't seem to be strong 
enough to capture people's imagination and to guide their lives. 
Of course the Communists have good answers for all these things. 
They said that people couldn't live by any values that superseded 
the values of money in a capitalist society. That was what they 



5008 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

said. It sounds logical, but when you think about it, the concept 
of King Midas, for instance, goes away back in history — that there 
are some people who value money more than anything I don't doubt, 
but 1 don't think you could say it is inherent in this particular 
system. 

Subsequently, mostly after I left, I discovered that there are peo- 
ple who believe in democracy, practice it; there are people who are 
Christians, and they practice their Christian principles. One of 
these persons was a minister at Wayne University at the time when 
I was arrested at this party. He was head of the Wesleyan Society. 
He dropped me a note. I had a class with him; he taught a speech 
class, and of course the school paper was all full of this raid, and I 
was extremely embarrassed by the whole thing and quite miserable 
at the time; so was my stepbrother who subsequently quit school 
shortly after. It was embarrassing to our families and everything, 
and we were put on probation by the school, but this minister, I re- 
member, saw me, and he didn't ask me why did I do it or what was 
going on or anj^thing like that. He had a wonderful attitude. I 
just can't descrii3e it, but he just accepted me and said, "Is there any- 
thing I can do to help?" that attitude. That and other ppo])le whom 
I have met made me realize that tlie world isn't so bad after iill. 

I believe now, and I have believed for some time, that w^hile the 
Communists have principles and they live by their principles, I 
think — that was probabl}^ one of the things that also got me, the fact 
that they said something and then acted upon what they said, which 
enhanced my curiosity as to what was going on with them, but I have 
subsequently believed that people Avant to live the good life, as some 
educators and philosophers have said; they want to live a good life, 
but it is a case of learning how, we Avant to learn how, and how you 
learn how — that is the $64 question; that is part of the big picture 
in education today, what are the methods that they can use to teach 
people to develop principles and live by them. 

Mr. Tavenner. It seems to me from what you have said that you 
concluded that you could not reach those high ideals which you had 
through the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Daly. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. But that you find you can work for tliem and reach 
them througli normal means under our own system of Government 
and our own way of life? 

Mr. Daly. That is right. You work for it by doing things yourself, 
by thinking things out yourself, not by being told, especially the regi- 
mented situation of the Communists. You don't accept other people's 
philosophies just pointblank. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall the names of any of the other leaders 
in the group of the Communist Party of which you were a member? 

Mr. Daly. The only person whom I recall as leaders were this 
Russell Kitto and this Jack Gore. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was John Cherveny a member of this group? 

Mr. Daly. Yes, as far as I know. Now, whether he had a — let's see. 
T don't know whether he was a leader in the terms of being chairman 
or something, but he did seem to be a sparkplug, I say that, that is, 
a short of ex officio leader, if there is such a thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name 
of George Shenkar? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5009 

Mr. Dalt. No, sir; I don't recall that name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Sidney Graber? 

Mr. Daly. That is the fellow whose picture was in the paper last 
night? Yes, I recognize the picture. I recognize him as one of the 
members. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall anything about his activity in this 
group ? 

Mr. Daly. I don't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not you paid dues to him 
at any time ? 

Mr. Daly. That I don't remember. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Do you know where he lived ? 

Mr. Daly. No, I don't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Daly, I hand you a list of names prepared by 
the staff based upon its investigation. I would like you to examine 
this list and advise the committee as to whether or not there appear 
on it the names of any persons whom you can identify from your own 
personal knowledge as having been members of the Communist Party. 
I do not want you to read into the record the name of any person that 
you cannot identify; only mention the names of those that you can 
identify. 

Mr. Daly. John Cherveny. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have identified a person by the name of Jack 
Gore as a member of this group. 

Mr. Daly. Yes . 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall his wife's name? 

Mr. Daly. I don't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether his wife was also a member 
of this group ? 

Mr. Daly. I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know w^hether his wife was a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Daly. I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Leonard Cohen ? 

Mr. Daly. Yes. 

Mr. Appell. He was known on the campus by the nickname of 
Lennie. * 

Mr. Daly. Yes, I recall him. 

Mr. Appell. Was he a member of the Communist Party, to your 
knowledge ? 

Mr. Daly. I think so. As I recall — yes, he w^rote articles for the 
Communist publication. 

Mr. Appell. By the Communist publication you are referring to 
the Michigan Worker ? 

Mr. Daly. Yes. I forgot about him. Wlien you said those in 
leadership position — whether he was a leader or not, I don't know, 
but he was like John Cherveny, who seemed to be, what would you 
call it, the inner group or something. I couldn't identify him and 
say he was the leader of us. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall the name of any other person who 
was a member of your group of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Appell. I can't recall any names now. I just don't recall any 
others by name. 



5010 COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. TA^'EXNER. You spoke of the Communist Party publication 
on the campus. "What was the name of that paper? 

Mr. Appell. It wasn't a publication on the campus. It was the 
Michigan extension of the Daily Worker, I think. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Was it circulated by members of your group of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Daly. Yes. I subscribed to it, I remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, anything else 
jou desire to state regarding the circumstances under which you left 
the Commujiist Party ? 

Mr. Daly. Well, as I said before, I became, as I recall, discouraged 
and disinterested, and the philosophy of the Communist Party didn't 
present any i:)hilosophy that I could believe in. They seemed to insist, 
as I recall, that dictatorship was necessary, and I don't think — it 
has never been demonstrated to me that any dictatorship has been 
other than complete totalitarianism. Let me search my mind. This 
arrest, of course, had something to do with it. In fact, I was placed 
on probation. I was just beginning to see my way out of these prob- 
lems I was having at the time in relationship to this business of hav- 
ing a personal philosophy. I couldn't accept their philosophy. It 
seemed to be a negative philosoj^hy. 

Mr. Ta\t,nner. Have you had any association or affiliation with 
the Communist Party since you withdrew in 1948? 

Mr. Daly. None. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your break with the Communist Party has been final 
and complete ? 

]\Ir. Daly. That is right. I do recall that I did see John Cherveny 
once or twice after that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that in connection with Communist Party 
matters? 

Mr. Daly. No, no. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, I have none, either. As I told you at the outset, 
we appreciate very much your cooperation with tlie committee. I 
don't think you will ever have any cause whatever to regret that co- 
operation because we certainly shall do nothing that will in any way 
reflect upon you. 

Mr. Daly. May I ask a question? 

Mr. Clardy. You may. 

Mr. Daly. The board of education, and superintendent of my 
school system, while they don't say so, I think they are kind of con- 
cerned. Will they be able to rest at ease, or 

ISIr. Clardy. I will, of course, have to discuss that with the other 
members of the committee, but if my recommendation is adopted, I 
think that neither they nor you will have any cause to be alarmed, sir. 

Mr. Daly. I am not sure — I mean whether they will believe me or 
not. 

Mr. Ci-ARDY. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Clardy. The hearing is adjourned until 1 : 30. 

(Thereupon, at 12 : 10 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
upon the call of the Chair.) 



INVESTmATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 

STATE OF MICHIGAN— PAKT 1 

(Detroit— Education) 



MONDAY, MAY 3, 1954 

United States House of Representatives, Sub- 
committee OF the Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Detroit, Mich. 

public hearing 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to notice, at 9 : 35 a. m., in room 859 of the Federal 
Building, Hon. Kit Clardy, presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Kit Clardy (acting 
■chairman), Gordon H. Scherer, and Morgan M. Moulder. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Donald T. 
Appell and W. Jackson Jones, investigators; and Mrs. Juliette P. 
Joray, acting clerk. 

Mr. CiiARDT. The committee will be in order. Are you ready to 
proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Before we call the first witness, the committee has a 
brief announcement or two to make. First I want to record for the 
record the fact that the Honorable Harold H. Velde, chairman of 
the full coimnittee, has appointed a subcommittee consisting of Con- 
gressman Scherer, of Ohio ; and Congressman Moulder, of Missouri ; 
and myself to conduct the hearings in Michigan. 

Due to the fact that we are in a Federal courtroom and, further, due 
to the fact that this is a committee of Congress, the no-smoking rule 
will be enforced throughout the proceeding in the hearing room it- 
self as distinguished from the corridor outside. 

During the progress of the hearings the committee wants to em- 
phasize the fact that there must be no demonstrations of any kind 
whatsoever, either of approval or disapproval. This is a committee 
of Congress, and we must have the decorum that must be observed 
at any time before such committees or in a courtroom. 

The committee has caused subpenas to be issued for a number of 
people, but it has not, up until a witness is called to the stand, an- 
nounced the names of those who have been subpenaed, and it will ad- 
here to that rule. We cannot, of course, be responsible for those who 
have given their own names to the press, to the public, of their own 
accord. 

We have a set of printed rules that will be observed, and in prac- 
tice tliroughout the proceeding. One of those rules provides that 

5011 



5012 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

all witnesses may be represented by counsel who will advise them on 
their constitutional rights, and if at any time during the proceeding — 
and I say this because there are a number of witnesses present, and 
it will save time and make it unnecessary to repeat this announcement 
each time — any of the witnesses feel that they need a brief recess for 
the purpose of a lengthy conversation with their counsel as to the 
rights that they may have, a request by the witness will be honored. 

There is one thing I do want to emphasize, and I want all the 
witnesses to pay close attention to this : Under our rules, as everyone 
should know, any prepared statement that any witness wishes to put 
into the record must have been presented to the committee in advance 
of the opening of the hearing. There will be no prepared statement 
admitted unless that rule has been observed because the subcommittee 
has no alternative but to observe all of the rules as they have been 
agreed to unanimously by this committee. 

Now, a great many other points will arise as the hearing proceeds. 
If any witness has any question about the rules and their application, 
he may address such query to the committee at any time during the 
progress of the hearing. 

Now, Mr. Counsel, if you are ready, you may call your first witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gerald I. Harrison. 

Mr. Field. Could this witness request that no pictures be taken in 
this hearing room ? 

Mr. Clardy. Have you had a copy of our rules ? 

Mr. Field. I have not. 

Mr. Clardy. May I give you a copy at this time because the right of 
counsel does not extend to making arguments and so on, but I under- 
stand what you have in mind. I will ask you to identify yourself in 
a moment. 

Will you raise your right hand and be sworn? You do solemnly 
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help yoii God? 

Mr. Harrison. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. Will y<^ii be seated ? Are you represented by counsel ? 

TESTIMONY OF GERALD I. HARRISON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, G. LESLIE FIELD 

Mr. Harrison. Yes, I am represented by counsel. 

Mr. Clardy. Yery well. Will counsel identify himself on the 
record ? 

Mr. Field. My name is G. Leslie Field, 4:15 Dime Building. I have 
been requested to ask, but I guess it is too late, that no photographs be 
taken. 

Mr. Clardy. IMay I announce the rule on that ? I am sorry I over- 
looked suggesting that. If, after the witnesses are sworn, any of 
them wish to request that no further photographs be taken, it will be 
honored; that is during the testimony. Up until the time the witness 
is sworn, we have a standing rule that the photographers may photo- 
graph us or anyone in the courtroom, but thereafter if the witness 
desires to have the photographers cease, we will order them to cease. 

Mr. Harrison. It is obviously impossible to do that at this moment. 

Mr. Clardy. It is impossible up until the time you are sworn be- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5013 

cause that is the rule we observe. Will the photographers please 
desist ? 

Mr. Harrison. These rules of procedure were handed to me a few 
minutes before the proceedings began. 

Mr. Clardy. That is right. 

Mr. Harrison. I request that this committee adjourn the hearings 
until I have had an opportunity to consult with my counsel regarding 
the rules of procedure. 

Mr. Clardy. The hearing will not be adjourned. Will you take 
your seat ? Counsel, you may sit. 

Mr. Field. May I address one question ? 

Mr. Clardy. You may not. We do not permit that rule to be vio- 
lated. At the recess if you have anything to suggest, you may, or you 
may have your witness address any question you have in mind. 

Mr. Field. May I file a motion to quash the subpena ? 

Mr. Clardy. You may file it, yes, sir; and it will be duly put into 
the files of the committee. 

Mr» Harrison. May 1 request that the committee act upon this 
motion which my attorney has made ? 

Mi\ Clardy. You may make such a request. Now will you be 
seated. Are you ready to proceed ? 

Mr, Field. I would like to say the motion 

Mr. Clardy. I am sorry. 

Mr. Harrison. I would like the committee to act upon the motion 
w^hich 

Mr. Clardy. For the moment the motion wull be denied, and it wdll 
be taken under further advisement for further action at the proper 
time. Will you proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you be seated, please, sir. 

Mr. Harrison. I prefer to stand. 

Mr. Clardy. No ; you may be seated. We prefer it. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir? 

Mr. Harrison. My name is Gerald Harrison. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Harrison. Ottawa, Canada, in 1916, July 20. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to the United States? 

Mr. Harrison. I believe it was in 1922 or 1923. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen ? 

Mr Harrison. No; I derived my citizenship from my father's 
citizenship. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where was your father naturalized ? 

Mr. Harrison. I am not sure exactly when nor exactly where. I 
believe it was in New York around the beginning of the century, I 
think around 1922 or 1923 or thereabouts. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Had your father lived in Canada for any consider- 
able period of time before your birth there? 

Mr. Harrison. I am not aware of the exact year that he went to 
Canada. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your father had not lost his citizenship after leav- 
ing the United States and going to Canada, I presume? 

Mr. Harrison. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you reside? 

Mr. Harrison. In Highland Park. 



5014 COIMAIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Tavenner. The city of Detroit ? 

Mr. Harrison. No ; the city of Highland Park. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your profession ? 

Mr. Harrison. Well, I am a teacher, a teacher of mathematics, and 
my training has been mathematics. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
normal educational training has b^en for your profession? 

Mr. Harrison. Is this to determine my competency to answer ques- 
tions or for what purpose is this question asked? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, the obvious purpose of it is that the committee 
may understand something of your background and experience. 

Mr. Harrison. Well, I received my bachelor's and master's degrees 
at Arizona State College at Tempe, Ariz., and I received my doctor'& 
degree in mathematics at the California Institute of Technology in 
1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your rec- 
ord of employment has been ? 

Mr. Harrison. Could I ask what the purpose of that question is ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The same purpose as it was, to ascertain your back- 
ground regarding your educational qualification. 

Mr. Harrison. Well, I am presently employed by the board of edu- 
cation of Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. What other employment have you had ? 

Mr. Harrison. Previous to that I was in the physics department of 
Queens College. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the date, please ? 

Mr. Harrison. I believe it was the spring semester of 1948 that I 
was at Queens College. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well, sir. Prior to that how were you em- 
ployed ? 

Mr. Harrison. Prior to that I was employed by the Sperry Gyro- 
scope Co. for a period of roughly a year, 13 months or so. 

Mr. Clardy. At what place, witness ? 

Mr. Harrison. This was at the Sperry Gyroscope Co., in Lake 
Success. 

Mr. Clardy. Wliere ? 

Mr. Harrison. In Lake Success. It is a small village. 

Mr. Clardy. On Long Island ? 

Mr. Harrison. That is right, on Long Island. 

Mr. Clardy. Where for a temporary period the United Nations had 
its headquarters? 

Mr. Harrison. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your employment there ? 

Mr. Harrison. I was there, I believe, as a project engineer, working 
on the matters which the company presented to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. By "project engineer" what do you mean? 

Mr. Harrison. Well, this is hard to explain. They needed someone 
to work out mathematical, theoretical, so to speak, results, which would 
be in aid of the engineering staff and whatever other needs arose, and 
though they had no title for this type of work, they gave it the title of 
project engineer. It doesn't indicate that I am an engineer because, 
of course, I am not. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you employed there, please? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5015 

Mr. Harrison. I think it was over a year. I am not sure of the 
exact time. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your employment prior to that? 

Mr. Harrison. Prior to that I was employed at the radiation 
laboratory of MIT. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your employment there? 

Mr. Harrison. I believe the title was staff member of the radiation 
laboratory, and again I worked there on various mathematical and 
physical theories which were related to the needs of the laboratory. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you so employed ? 

Mr. Harrison. For, I think, just about a year, if not exactly a 
year. 

Mr. ScHERER. Were you employed on any Government projects, 
for the United States Government ? 

Mr. Harrison. Yes — I was employed by various laboratories which 
were engaged in Government projects. 

Mr. ScHERER. Defense work? 

Mr. Harrison. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was the material on which you were working classi- 
fied material ? 

Mr. Harrison. Some of it ; yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. Were you cleared to handle classified material? 

Mr. Harrison. I presume so. I have no knowledge. As far as I 
know ; I was not informed otherwise, of course, until my termination 
of employment at the Sperry Gyroscope Co. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was that true with Sperry Gyroscope Co. also ? 

Mr. Harrison. I just said, until my termination of employment at 
the Sperry Gyroscope Co., I was cleared for this work, I presume. 
I have no reason to believe otherwise. 

Mr. ScHERER. At both of these plants, however, you were working 
on defense projects? 

Mr. Harrison. Well, at this first one we were mentioning, the 
MIT laboratoiy, the money, of course, that the laboratory obtained 
for its functioning was obtained on the basis of various projects. 
My work, as I recall it, was not on any particular project. There 
was a group of mathematicians and physicists who worked on general 
problems which related to the needs of the laboratory. I don't recall 
that I was on any particular project. 

]Mr. ScHERER. The laboratory was doing work, however, for the 
Defense Department of the United States Government ? 

JNIr. Harrison. I believe so. 

Mr. ScHERER. In both instances ? 

Mr. Harrison. Yes, I think so. 

Mr. Clardy. Sperry engaged in a great deal of research and 
produced quite a number of items that were of great value in national 
defense, did it not? 

Mr. Harrison. I believe so ; yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to your employment at the radiation labora- 
tory, what the nature of your work ? 

Mr. Harrison. I believe for a period of perhaps a year and a half 
or two, the exact length escapes me, I was at the Harvard Underwater 
Sound Laboratory in Cambridge, Mass. 



5016 COMMXmiST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Tavenner. Did I understand you to say Harvard University? 

Mr. Harrison. That is right. It was on the premises of Harvard 
University. I am not clear as to the exact rehitionship that the 
laboratory had to Harvard University. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I'nderwater sound, is that what 3'ou said? 

Mr. Harrison. Harvard Underw^ater Sound Laboratories. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your duties there? 

Mr. Harrison. Again it was to make certain mathematical, theo- 
retical investigations of the physical problems involved in the prob- 
lems of the laboratory. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did those problems deal with matters of de- 
fense ( 

Mr. Harrison. I believe so, yes. 

Mr. Clardy. As a matter of fact, the mathematical work you are 
talking about was the real basis for the development of radar and 
a great many other things that have come into use, was it not? 

Mr. Harrison, Radar, of course, was largely a development of 
the radiation laboratory at MIT. 

Mr. Clardy. I say the mathematical formulas and the things you 
worked ,on are of the type that are necessary as a foundation for 
the practical application that has been made ? 

Mr. Harrison. I believe so. I believe that can be said. 

Mr. Clardy. You not only believe so, as a mathematician you 
know so, don't you ? 

Mr. Harrison. Well, to say that the theoretical foundation came 
first before the practical applications is not always the case. I be- 
lieve they are related. 

Mr. Clardy. I understand. 

Mr. IL\RRisoN. They complement one another. 

Mr. Clardy. It is at least the explanation of what may have been 
stumbled onto when tlie reverse takes place ? 

Mr. Harrison. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. For how long a period of time were you employed 
at this institution? 

Mr. Harrison. Incidentally, I am not sure you should call it an 
institution. I was employed by the laboratory, of course. 

Mr. Tavenner. By the laboratory at Harvard University? 

Mr. Harrison. At Harvard University. I don't recall exactly. I 
believe I was there for about 2 years, but I am not sure of the exact 
dates at the moment. 

Mr. ScHERER. What were those years? 

Mr. Harrison. I believe I came there sometime in 1948, and I think 
1 left there sometime in 1945. I believe those are the periods. Per- 
haps if you have the record there you might state them. I am not 
clear. 

Mr. Tavenner. The notations which I have indicate that you were 
employed there from 1943 to 1945. 

Mr. SciiERER. What about tlie radiation laboratory at MIT, Mr. 
Counsel? Do you have those notations? 

Mr. Tavenner. 1945 to 194(). 

Mr. SoiiERER. What about the Sperry Gyroscope Co. ? 

Mr. Tavexxer. 1946-47, which is substantially what tlie witness 
said. 

Mr. Harrison. I believe so. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5017 

Mr. Ta\t3Nner. Prior to your employment at Harvard how were 
you employed? 

Mr. Harrison. Prior to that I was employed as a contract physicist 
at the Naval Ordnance Laboratory in Washington. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a civilian employee 'i 

Mr. Harrison. Yes, I was a civilian employee. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the fate of your employment there at 
the Naval Ordnance Laboratory ? 

Mr. Harrison. It was similar to that which I have been describing 
in my other work. It was of a mathematical theoretical nature which 
related to the problems and the needs of the laboratory at that time. 

Mr. Si- HERER. What type of projects ? 

Mr. Harrison. Well, those that were of interest to the Navy at 
that time. 

JNIr. Scherer. Can you give us an illustration of one or two of the 
projects on which you worked? 

Mr. Harrison. Well, I don't know whether I ought to divulge that. 
I don't think it is particularly important, and yet I hesitate to do 
that. 

Mr. Scherer. Was it that secret that you can't divulge it at this 
time? 

Mr. Harrison. No, no. 

Mr. Scherer. If it was, I don't want you to disclose it, but I just 
wanted to know if you were engaged on something as secret as that 
so you can't disclose it. 

Mr. Harrison. No, I don't think one decides whether one discloses 
these things on the level of secrecy involved. I don't think that it 
would be quite proper. I can only say that they were problems in 
which the Navy was concerned at that time. Obviously there were 
problems of great moment having to do with the threat that our 
shipping was faced with at that time, and so on. The nature of the 
work was ^ 

Mr. Scherer. Were they classified projects at that time ? 

Mr. Harrison. Yes, the work was of a classified nature, yes. 

Mr. Scherer. Then you w^ere cleared to handle classified work at 
that time? 

Mr. Harrison. I presume so. 

Mr. Scherer. Don't you know ? 

Mr. Harrison. I can only go on the basis that nothing to the 
contrary was ever brought to my attention at that time. I believe 
these things were a matter of routine, which was not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to your employment at the Naval Ordnance 
Laboratory, how were you employed ? 

Mr. Harrison. Well, the year prior to that I was working at the 
California Institute of Technology toward my doctorate, and I was 
simply studying during that year at the California Institute of Tech- 
nology. That was just about a year, I think, that I was there at that 
time. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Counsel, what does your memorandum show with 
reference to the time that this man was employed by the Navy ? 

Mr. Tavenner. 1942 to 1943, is that correct? 

48861— 54— pt. 1 3 



5018 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Harrison. I believe that is right. I believe that is right. That 
was immediately following my studies at California Tech ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. While at California Tech were you associated in 
anyway with the scientific research being conducted in connection with 
the atomic bomb. 

Mr. Harrison. No. No, I was there on a fellowship which helped 
to support me while I studied there, and I taught a class or two, as 
I recall, but I did nothing else there during that year than tend to 
my duties in this respect. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you teach at any other place ? 

Mr. Harrison. Yes, I taught for 2 years at the New Mexico State 
College of A. and M, A. I believe that is agriculture and mechanic 
arts. It is a State college just outside of Las Cruces, N. Mex. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat were the years? 

Mr. Harrison. That would be 1939 to 1941. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is informed that you are now em- 
ployed as an assistant professor of mathematics at Wayne Univei-sity, 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Harrison. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been teaching at Wayne Uni- 
versity ? 

Mr. Harrison. Well, my official contract, I think, began as of 
September 1948, although I did teach there during the prior summer 
session. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have taught there constantly since that time? 

Mr. Harrison. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to ask this witness various 
questions regarding activities within the American Federation of 
Teachers, or at least to inquire as to his knowledge of such activities, 
but as the basis for my questioning I think that I should make known 
to the witness the testimony of various persons who have appeared 
before this committee as a background for my questioning. 

Mr. Clardy. Very well. Proceed. I think I should also make the 
statement at this time that we had anticipated today having Dr. Bella 
Dodd here to repeat and expand some testimony on the subject that 
you have in mind, but we have excused her from appearing today 
because of a business engagement that she had. You may proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Bella V. Dodd 

Mr. Harrison. Incidentally, may I inquire, is it the practice of 
the committee to excuse people because of business engagements? 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, I have told counsel he may proceed. Just 
be patient. You will understand what we are getting at when he is 
finished. He is reading something on which he intends to base a 
question. Be patient for a few moments, and you will discover what 
he has in mind. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Bella V. Dodd was an organizer for the Ameri- 
can Federation of Teachers and became its legislative representative 
in the State of New York between the period of 1938 and 1943. She 
testified before the committee that as early as 1932 she had been 
active in a positive way with the Communists and the Communist 
Party, although she was not at that time a member of the Communist 
Party. She testified before this committee that she did not become 
a member of the Communist Party until in 1943. After that time she 
became one of the most influential open members of the Communist 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5019 

Party in this country until she left the Communist Party entirely and 
broke with it in 1948. She is now engaged in the practice of law in 
the citv of New York. 

Dr. Dodd held many important positions in the Communist Party. 
She was a member of the State committee in New York from 1944 to 
1948 and a member of the national committee of the Communist Party 
for the same period, and she was State secretariat for the State of New 
York. She was a member at one time or another of many of the most 
important commissions of the Communist Party, including the wom- 
en's commission, the labor commission, the youth commission, and the 
legislative commission. In the course of her testimony she told this 
committee that — 

The Communist Party was very, very keen 

and I am quoting her now — 

about organizing teachers, professors, educators, the intellectuals, because these 
are the molders of public opinion, and these are the people who make the shift 
in public opinion for the country. 

Very often it depended upon what period of history you were in as to whether 
the professional people became identified with the Communists or not. During 
the period when the Communist Party Ls in danger the professional people are 
more or less placed underground. As a matter of fact, one of the things we 
used to smile about — that is, those of us who became openly known as party 
people — was the fear the professional people had, the timidity they had, and we 
would constantly egg them on to become open and known Communists, but at 
the same time we would protect those who were important to the party. 

Teachers groups and, for instance, other groups like doctors, lawyers, scientists, 
what will you, had their own separate organization and teachers particularly, 
since they were large in number, had to worry about the question of .security 
and the question of losing their jobs, and they would be organized by themselves 
in certain periods of the party history. During the period of the extreme united- 
front movement, the teachers were to join in street branches under different 
names and to merge themselves with liousewives and others, but most of the 
time that I knew the party the teachers had their own special organization with 
just teachers. They never went to party headquarters and never went anywhere 
near where the party might be identified, but meetings were organized and held 
in out-of-the-way places, in private homes. 

Dr. Dodd then testified as to the character of the work that was done 
in the State of New York. This is what she said : 

The Communist Party organized teachers in practically every high school and 
in most of the elementary schools, and where there were elementary schools 
in which we didn't have free members, then you would associate 3 or 4 of 
the public schools together and establish a geographical unit. So you would 
have a network of units which were called shop units, actually working within 
the school, and then sending representatives to the county, and then sending 
representatives to the city. From time to time, in order to control the union 
work, we would have a meeting of all the teachers who were in the Communist 
Party, or representatives from the various units. This was called fraction. 
This was a fraction. You see, it was the policy of the Communist Party within 
the unit. By 1938, however, it became unnecessary to have fractions anymore 
because the Communist Party had established its domination over the union. 
What happened then, we established a coordinating committee, we established 
a top committee of the union, of Communist oflacers of the union, for the purposes 
of establishina Dolicy. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 
Mr. Tavenner. I think it is only fair that this part of her testi- 
mony also be brought out in connection with this. She testified as 
follows : 

Well, in contrast to the fact that there are 1 million teachers in America,. 
or a little more than 1 million teachers at present, from my knowledge the- 



5020 coiMJvruTsrisT actwities in the state of Michigan 

highest number of Communist Party members that we had among the teachers 
was never much more than 1,500. That is a very small group, but you must 
bear in mir)d that in America there are only, according to J. Edgar Hoover, 
25.000 party members at present among 160 million citizens. William Z. Foster 
in his book says there are 75,000 party members. But whether there are 75.000 
or 25,000, it doesn't matter. The number is insignificant compared to the total 
population, yet we worry about the Communist situation. But the same thing 
is true about the teachers. These 1,500 were all strategically placed and were 
so instructed and so alert to the problems which the party wanted to bring 
forward tliat you cannot count their number. You must see the intensity 
with which they worli and the training which they had in revolutionary 
techniques. 

Well, teachers' unions operate the same as all other unions. 

I am quoting from her testimony. 

They are a branch of the large number and there is nothing wrong with 
teachers' unions. I have known of some very effective work done on behalf 
of teachers by teachers' unions. The difRculty arises that when Communists 
take over a teachers' union they are not only interested in the economic welfare 
of the teachers but they begin to use the union for a political purpose, and 
that is where the real problem conies in because the Communists control the 
teachers' unions which they do infiltrate. 

Dr. Dodd then explained a difficulty that came about in the Teachers 
Union, functionalism which resulted in an attack upon the Communist 
group within the union, and this is what she has to say about that: 

Around the period of the Stalin-Nazi pact in 1939 there were certain other 
forces of the American Federation of Teachers who decided to fight the Com- 
munist influence 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 
Mr. Tavenner (continuing to read) : 

and, whereas, they had not had much success during the Stalin-Nazi pact, they 
had a great deal of influence in fighting the Communist influence, and they 
began pushing the Communist influence out of oflSce in the American Federation 
of Teachers and forcing them out of positions of influence and ultimately 
ousting them, expelling them from the American Federation of Teachers. It 
was during this period when I mistakenly thought that the attack was one 
upon free public education and I, with some help from the Communist I'arty, 
began to equate the attack upon the grounds as an attack upon public educa- 
tion. I merged the two and in merging them I gained the sympathy of many 
people not Communists and got them to help the Communist Teachers' Union 
to get support in their fight against being ousted by the American Federation 
of 'Teachers. 

Dr. Dodd then proceeds to tell the committee of the underlying 
l^urpose of the Communist Party as she understood it in the State of 
New York toward the Teachers Union or in unions generally, for 
that matter. This is what she had to say : 

The Communist I'arty is not interested in unions per se ; just to improve the 
working conditions of the workers, and that includes the teachers, as well as 
any other unions. 

In that connection she quoted from Lenin as follows. This is what 
Lenin said : 

We are not interested in unions as reforming organizations. We are interested 
in unions as politicalizing institutions. 

In other words, according to Dr. Dodd's testimony — 

they regarded with contempt unions engaged in what is called economism ; that 
is, improving the economic conditions. It is only important if it can be politi- 
calized. The Teachers Union of New York, unfortunately, came to be used as 
a real political weapon by the party because the Teachers Union was one of the 
lew unions over which they had some control in the American Federation of 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5021 

Labor. They used it on every occasion in the State federation and the national 
federation of labor. They used us to get political resolutions passed. For in- 
stance, I remember in 1938 the party was very much interested in unity between 
the CIO and the American Federation of Labor. Certainly that was a good 
slogan. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Tavenner, I don't say this in the spirit of criti- 
cism in any manner whatsoever directed at you, bnt will there be 
testimony connecting this witness with any of the matters in the testi- 
mony from which you are now reading? Will there be direct testi- 
mony connecting him with what you are reading from now ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Not at all. This is the basis for asking this witness 
regarding the local chapter of the Detroit Federation of Teachers, the 
exact name, which is a local of the American Federation of Teachers, 
of which we think he was a member during a critical period. 

(At this point Mr, Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Moulder. My purpose in asking that question was not in any 
way connected with the defense of this witness. I know nothing what- 
soever about him other than what he has testified so far. But it seems 
what you have been reading would be against him without any basis 
for it whatsoever. That is the purpose of my objection. 

Mr. Clardy. Counsel, do I understand it is your purpose to ask him 
his knowledge of the general matters that apply at the moment only 
to New York? 

Mr. TA\nENNER. My whole purpose is to show through the testimony 
of Dr. Dodd the importance of the Communist objectives in the Teach- 
ers Union and then to ask this witness what knowledge he has regard- 
ing those matters, if any. That is my sole purpose. 

Mr. Clardy. It is not intended as any attack upon the Teachers 
Union as such anywhere. 

Mr. Tavenner. Not at all. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Dodd then proceeded to tell how the Com- 
munist Party induced her to organize and conduct the fight for unity 
between the CIO and the American Federation of Labor. Dr. Dodd 
also stated in the course of her testimony : 

I think the American teachers have a great opportunity in the very difficult 
time America faces. American teachers who are not Communists have a great 
opportunity of showing themselves as people who love their country rather than 
people who unwittingly cover up a conspiracy against our country. Communism 
is the challenge of our times, and until that challenge is actually met and re- 
solved nothing else is important. The teachers who talk about freedom, either 
academic or otherwise, must understand that there will be precious little free- 
dom if this conspiracy is not overcome, or if this world philosophy which seeks 
to destroy us is not overcome. I think the American teachers are overwhelmingly 
patriotic. 

Now, we are anxious to know, Mr. Harrison, to learn all we can 
regarding the objectives of the Communist Party in this area and 
its attitude toward the American Federation of Teachers. We under- 
stand from the testimony in many places that the American Federa- 
tion of Teachers has succeeded in getting rid of all Communist in- 
fluences in their organizations. I would like to ask you first if you 
know of any effort on the part of the Communist Party to wield an 
influence or control over any branch of the American Federation of 
Teachers in Detroit ? 



5022 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Harrison". Well, first let me say this, that the point raised by 
Mr. Moulder, I think, should be very well taken. I believe that read- 
ing such a long statement of testimony given by this witness in some 
way connects me with the testimony which she has ^iven and is a way 
of smearing and associating people with such questions and such un- 
justified aspersions as people derive from such statements. I don't 
feel that it was proper that such a lengthy testimony on the part of 
this witness should be read into the record during the time of my 
appearing here. It associates me with what she has said, and I don't 
feel that that is a proper way to proceed. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. Scherer. I think we can clear that matter up which the witness 
raised very shortly. Were you a member of the American Federation 
of Teachers? 

Mr. Harrisox. I believe that is a very improper question. My 
union affiliations, my union activities, are a matter which I think gen- 
erally is considered outside of the realm of proper questioning by such 
a committee. I would suggest that the proper officials — 

Mr. Scherer. Pardon me. 

Mr. Clardy. May I interrupt just a moment. That is a proper 
question, Witness, and you are directed to answer it. 

Mr. Harrison. May I confer with my attorney on this? 

Mr. Clardy. You may. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.") 
Mr. Harrison. Well, I disagree with the chairman. I feel that 
this is an invasion of my rights under the first amendment which 
prohibits Congress from legislating and therefore dealing in such 
questions relating to my right of assembly and free speech and the 
other rights which are guaranteed me under the first amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Chairman, may I withdraw my question tem- 
porarily ? 

Mr. Clardy. You may. 

Mr. Scherer. Now may I ask you the question, Were you ever a 
member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Harrison. I believe that that question, too, is as improper as 
the first one was. I don't care to make a public spectacle of my 
political affiliations or ideas. 

Mr. Scherer. I th.ink as we go along, Mr. Chairman, the testimony 
read by counsel becomes very, very competent in view of the wit- 
ness' partial answers, at least, to my question. I am going to ask that 
you direct the witness to answer my question whether or not he was 
ever a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes; the witness is so directed; and may I state for 
benefit of counsel, as well as the witness, we do recognize the right 
of counsel to advise the wjtness and the witness to invoke the fifth 
amendment properly so long as it is not done ca])riciously and, as you 
know, without any danger of any possible incrimination. We do 
not — and I say this so that everyone may understand it — at any time 
recognize the right of any witness to refuse to answer on any other 
ground so far as the Constitution is concerned. He has mentioned 
the first amendment ; and, s^ince this is the first witness and there are 
others here, I might as well make it plain that the invocation of 
those other amendments has been attempted many times, has been 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5023 

rejected, and will not be accepted by the subcommittee as a reason; 
but, if the fifth amendment is raised in good faith and raised prop- 
erly and at the proper time, it will be recognized. However, in this 
instance I do not regard it as properly raised, and the Chair directs 
that you answer the question. He has a right to, and I think per- 
haps it may have been his indirect intention, and I don't want to 
deprive him of it merely because of some technical language he may 
have used. Now will you answer the question. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Smith.) 

Mr. Harrison. Mr. Chairman, wouldn't this be a proper time for 
you to act on the motion which I submitted ? 

Mr. Clardy. The motion has been denied. The subject matter in 
the motion— I have read it— has been raised many, many times by 
many, many witnesses and has always been rejected and always will 
be. Now you may answer the question. 

Mr. Harrison. ^ Well, am I to understand that according to the in- 
structions that you gave me that I am here under the suffrage of my 
rights under the Constitution as indicated by you ? 

Mr. Clardt. You have a right to raise your proper constitutional 
objections to answering questions. However, you may not invoke it 
for any frivolous reason. You may not invoke it when it is not com- 
pletely proper. In this instance I do not so regard it. It is not a crime 
to be a member of the Communist Party, not yet. 

Mr. Harrison. By that statement you imply that if I should stand 
upon my rights of the fifth amendment, that you would infer that the 
answer to that question would be that I was. 

Mr. Clardy. We are making no implications whatever, and to cut 
this short because we have a lot of witnesses, you are directed to answer. 
You may either invoke the fifth amendment or you may answer as you 
wish. I have no desire to tell you how to answer, merely to tell you 
that you have those alternatives. 

Mr. Harrison. Just a moment, please. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. Mr. Chairman, may I raise at this point the question 
of due process which I believe is being deprived me here? 

Mr. Clardy. No ; you may not. I have instructed you, I think, as to 
what course you may follow. We have been over this road many, many 
times, and while I do not challenge your raising it in perfect good 
faith, seeking to raise other things, we have had it before us. We do 
not honor any request to refuse to answer unless it is based on the fifth 
amendment. Now, you may invoke it if you wish, despite the fact that 
the Chair thinks it would be improperly invoked, and I shall not advise 
you as to your rights. You have able counsel there beside you who 
can do that. But make your choice and answer it so we may be on. 

Mr. Harrison. It seems to me, though, that I have certain rights 

Mr. Clardy. May I suggest, sir, I have directed you to answer. Now 
either answer or not, and we will be on with the business. 

Mr. Harrison. In that connection then I think I will have to decline 
to answer that question on the basis of the first amendment which 
states 

Mr. Clardy. We do not recognize that. I must cut you short on 
that. If you want to go into the fifth amendment, O. K. 

Mr. Harrison. May I be permitted to answer this question as I 
would like to answer it ? 



5024 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Clardy. Will it be very long, because we do not recognize any- 
thing except the fifth amendment. 

Mr. PIarrison. I do not think it will take very long. 

Mr. Ci-ARDY. Make it brief. 

Mr. Harrison. I wish to decline to answer this question on the 
basis of the first amendment because I believe it violates the rights 
which the people have reserved unto themselves, and Congress has no 
right to legislate on these matters, and therefore it is improper for 
this committee to investigate concerning these matters, and I think 
that I have a perfect right to state that I refuse or decline to answer 
the question on that ground as well as the grounds that I am being 
deprived here of my rights under the Constitution of due process. 
This is, in fact, a public trial, and I think I have been denied my 
rights because of reasons which I am not aware of. There have been 
other such hearings and witnesses, and people have been given these 
rights, such as the present hearings in Washington where, in this 
well-known hearing, Mr. McCarthy and his associates have been 
given 

Mr. Clardy. Witness we will not go into hearings before any other 
body or any other committee. Confine yourself to your own problem 
here today. 

Mr. Harrison. I simply wish to point out that in other hearings 
people have been given their full rights under due process of cross- 
examination of witnesses, of introducing testimony, and so on, and 
therefore I feel I am perfectly correct and well within the meaning 
of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution in invoking my rights 
under the fifth and sixth amendments of due process, and further- 
more, I 

Mr. Clardy. Very well. You have answered. Counsel, will you 
proceed. 

Mr. ScHERER. May I finish ? 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. ScuERER. Let me ask you if you are a member of the Com- 
munist Party today? 

Mr. Harrison. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds which I have been enumerating here. I refuse to make a 
public spectacle of my political views or affiliations as well as the 
reasons which I have stated under the first amendment. This is an 
improper question, and under the fifth and sixth amendments this 
committee is depriving me of my rights under the Constitution. 

Mr. ScHERER. You understand that the Supreme Court of this 
country has said that the Communist Party today is a part of an inter- 
national conspiracy, criminal conspiracy, controlled from the Krem- 
lin, don't you? I am just asking whether you are a member of that 
party today, that is all. Are you or are you not ? 

Mr. IIarrison. This appears to me to be the same question you 
asked a moment ago. 

Mr. Sgherer. No; I asked you were you a member. Now I asked 
you : Are you today ? 

Mr. Harrison. Yes ; that is how I understood your question a mo- 
ment a":o. 

Mr. SciiERER. That is a different question. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5025 

Mr. Clardy. May I interrupt. You said "Yes," and in the cold 
record it might be taken as an admission that you were a member. I 
am sure you didn't intend that. 

Mr. Harrison. No ; I simply said yes, that I understood the ques- 
tion. I feel that the answer which I gave concerning the past as well 
as the present is equally valid on the basis of the principles involved. 

Mr. Clardy. To shorten it up, hereafter if you wish to invoke an 
objection, just say on the same grounds already advanced, and we will 
understand it. 

Mr. ScHERER. I am still going to ask this witness whether or not 
he is a member of the Communist Party today because the witness 
hasn't answered. 

Mr. Harrison. I believe I have answered that question, as the chair- 
man has recognized, and I simply would restate that the 

Mr. ScHERER. For the same reasons you stated before, namely, on 
the grounds of the fifth amendment, right ? 

Mr. Harrison. I stated quite a number of reasons. 

Mr. ScHERER. Well, because of the other reasons you stated, also. 

Mr. Harrison. Can the secretary read back my reply to that? 

Mr. ScHERER, No, no. Let me ask you this: You are refusing to 
answer, I understand, for the reasons you have stated, including the 
-fifth amendment, is that right ? 

Mr. Harrison. Just a moment. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. Well, I mentioned the due process provision of the 
fifth amendment. I stand on the Constitution in its entirety. I don't 
care to — I think I have answered that question, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. All right. Let me ask you, were you a member of the 
Communist Party when you w^orked on the Sperry Gyroscope project 
in 1946 and 1947? 

Mr. Harrison. I think my answer is the same to that question, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Pardon just a moment. You said you think. Do you 
actuallv decline to answer on the grounds 

Mr. Harrison. Yes ; my answer is the same. 

Mr. Clardy. Hold it just a minute. I wish you would always an- 
nounce, if that is your intention, "I decline to answer on the grounds 
previously given," and that will protect your record. I don't want 
to have you feel that we are doing anything that will rush you along 
and make you answer in a way so that the full record will look wrong. 

Mr. Harrison. I decline to answ^er the question 

Mr. Clardy. May I suggest that the audience refrain from any 
demonstration. It will be necessary to clear the room unless you re- 
main absolutely quiet. It is hard enough to hear as it is. We will 
tolerate no murmuring, no talking, nothing of that kind. Proceed. 

Mr. Harrison. Mr. Chairman, w^ill you repeat the phrase you are 
suggesting I use? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes. I say, if you wish to decline to answer, say, "I 
decline to answer on the grounds previously advanced," or words to 
that effect. You have a good command of English, and anything 
that paraphrases that will be all right in the record. 

Mr. Harrison. Thank you. 



5026 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. ScHERER. Let me ask you, were you a member of the Communist 
Party when you worked at the Eadiation Laboratories at Massachus- 
etts Institute of Technology? 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison". I think I have indicated, and I am sure you know 
in advance what my answers to these questions are going to be. 

Mr. ScHERER. The record doesn't know. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, you must answer. 

Mr. Harrison. I decline to answer that question for the reasons 
already stated. 

Mr. Scherer. Were you a member of the Communist Party when 
you worked at the Harvard Underwater Sound Laboratory in 194S 
and 1945? 

Mr. Harrison. Same answer, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. You decline to answer for the same reason ? 

Mr. Harrison. I decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Scherer. Now I am going to ask you, were you or are you a 
member of the American Federation of Teachers ? 

Mr. Harrison. I still feel that is a highly improper question, to in- 
quire into my union activities or affiliations, and for all of the reasons 
which I have already given I will decline to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Pardon me. Witness, that question is a question that 
the Chair feels is perfectly proper and that you should answer, and I 
therefore direct you to answer it. 

Mr. Harrison. Didn't I understand you to withdraw that question a 
moment ago? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, but he has restated it now after he had asked the 
other questions. I am directing you to answer. Of course you may 
invoke the fifth amendment if you wish, but I think it would be im- 
properly done. 

Mr. Harrison. Just a moment. May I consult with my counsel ? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, you may. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
already stated and on the grounds of the motion which I presented to 
this committee as well which I will be glad to read into the record if 
you care. 

Mr. Scherer. Were you ever an officer of the American Federation 
of Teachers or one of its locals ? 

Mr. Harrison. Same answer, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. You mean you are declining? 

Mr. Harrison. I am declining to answer. 

Mr. Scherer. All right, Mr. Counsel. I am finished. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who is the president at this time of the Wayne 
University chapter of the Detroit Federation of Teachers? 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. I answer that in the same way that I have answered 
the other questions regarding this matter. 

Mr. Clardy. Again, Witness, you say you think. Are you declin- 
ing? 

Mr. Harrison. I am declining. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask you that you direct the witness to answer that 
question. There is no possible excuse for not answering that question. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5027 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, the Chair so directs that you answer the question 
counsel has asked. 

Mr, Hareison. Just a moment, please. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Clardy. Before you answer, perhaps I should tell you some- 
thing that may have escaped even counsel's attention. When the 
Chair directs that a question be answered, I think the counsel will 
understand what the committee has in mind. If we direct it, it is be- 
cause we feel that it would be utterly improper to fail to do so, and it 
may be the basis for some further or future action on the part of the 
committee, or at least a recommendation. I say that so you will 
understand why that procedure is followed. Are you ready, Witness ? 

Mr. Harrison. Just a moment, please. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. The long statement read by the counsel here indi- 
cated that apparently there might have been some illegal activities of 
otherwise innocent and bona fide organizations, and I don't see why 
I should be expected to answer questions about such an organization 
for that reason in addition to the many reasons I have already given. 

Mr. Scherer. Let me ask, Isn't it a fact that you, as a member of 
the Communist Party, along with others sought to dominate the local 
of the teachers union? 

Mr. Harrison. Is it the business of this committee to charge people 
with such things as this? 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, address yourself to answering the questions 
and not propounding them, 

Mr. Harrison. I am asking if I am being charged with something. 
If so, this committee is acting improperly and outside the legitim.ate 
function of a committee of the legislature, 

Mr. Clardy, Now will you answer the question, please ? 

Mr, Harrison. What is the question again, sir? 

^Ir. Clardy, Will you repeat it. Miss Reporter? 

(The question was read by the reporter as follows :) 

Let me ask, Isn't it a fact that you, as a member of the Communist Party, 
along with others sought to dominate the local of the teachers union? 

Mr. Harrison. I decline to answer that. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
previously stated, 

Mr. Clardy, Witness, are you in fact the head of that local or in 
some official capacity connected with it at the moment ? 

Mr. Harrison, It appears to me this is 

Mr, Clardy, The Wayne University chapter, you understand what 
I am talking about ? 

Mr. Harrison, It appears to me this is the same question, sir, 

Mr, Clardy, No, it is not, sir. You were asked to name the perscjn. 
You have declined to answer. Now I am asking you if it isn't a fact 
that you are that person ? 

Mr. Harrison. I decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr, Clardy. Then I direct you, sir, because the fact that you may 
hold an official position of some kind there cannot possibly incriminate 
you. We do not regard the teachers' profession as being overrun with 



5028 COMISIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Communists. We do not regard it as a Communist front or anything 
of the kind. We regard it as having no more Communists than any- 
other group, inchiding that of the profession of which I am a member,' 
but it is important that we discover whether you are, as we have reason 
to believe, head of that particular branch. Now I direct you again to 
answer that question. 

(At this point INIr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. I decline for the reasons previously stated, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any knowledge of Communist Party 
influences within the Progressive Party in Detroit ? 

Mr. Harrison. Is this committee investigating political parties? 

Mr. Tavenner. We are investigating communism wherever we find 
it, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. I think I may tell you, witness, that we have an abun- 
dant amount of evidence dealing Mnth the Communist nature of the 
group we are talkinjT about. Now, answer the question. 

Mr. Harrison. Well, it seems to me that for the reasons I have al- 
ready stated and in particular my rights under the first amendment, I 
cannot answer such a question and assist this committee in this type 
of investigation. I can't see that it is proper to investigate the activi- 
ties of a political party. 

Mr. Clardy. If it is a genuine political party, yes, but the Com- 
munist conspiracy is not a political party in any sense. It is a deadly, 
treasonous conspiracy, dedicated to destroying our way of life. We 
are asking you about the Progressive Party, an arm of that organiza- 
tion. I again direct you to answer. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. I decline to answer that question because of the 
political nature on the basis of the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Very well. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time since 1949 held a position or 
an office in the Progressive Party in the city of Detroit or Highland 
Park? 

Mr. Harrison. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
already stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. A question was asked you by a member of the com- 
mittee in the earlier part of your testimony regarding clearance for 
classified work while you were employed on Government projects, and 
I understood you to say or to indicate that it was at the time of the 
termination of your service with the Sperry Gyroscope Co. that you 
found that clearance was necessary. Is that in substance what you 
said ? 

Mr. Harrison. No; I didn't say that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, what did you mean to tell the committee about 
the time when you discovered that clearance was necessary to work on 
classified material? 

Mr. Harrison. Well, this wasn't something that I discovered. This 
is a matter of common knowledge that clearance is required when 
people are working on certain projects. 

Mr. Tavenner. You seemed in some doubt about it in the early part 
of your testimony. That is the reason I am trying to clear it up. 
You know, then, that clearance was necessary for you? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5029 

Mr. Harrison. I understand that clearance was necessary for every- 
one who worked on such projects; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, was clearance denied you for work on clas- 
sified contracts while you were employed by the Sperry Gyroscope 
Co.? 

Mr. Harrison. Well, after I had been employed there for over a 
year, as I recall, an officer of the company came to me and statedy 
as I recall, that by some oversight on the part of the company I 
had not been asked to fill out some forms or other. I don't recall 
what was on these forms. They were given to me, and I filled them 
out at that time, and several weeks later it was brought to my atten- 
tion that I was no longer given the clearance to work on the project 
which I had been working on for over a year, and, incidentally, 
relative to which I had just about completed the theoretical work, 
I think, that I was called in to the project in the first place to com- 
plete, and my work was terminatecl, my position with Sperry was 
terminated, because my services could no longer be of any use to them, 
for that reason. 

Mr, Clardy. Was that the incident that you mentioned in the public 
statement you issued last week? 

Mr. Harrison. I didn't mention that incident in any public state- 
ment that I issued officially. 

Mr. Clardy. I read something in the press, something attributed 
to you, that sounded as though it referred to your separation from 
the payroll for security reasons with a further statement on your part 
that you didn't understand what they had in mind. My question was 
merely, was the incident you are talking about the one you had in 
mind in the press statement that you made ? 

Mr. Harrison. I believe so ; yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you make any inquiry to discover why you were 
separated for what you have called security reasons ? 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. Well, as I say, I can't be held responsible for the 
faulty paperwork of the Sperry Co., but this, as I have related it, 
is the case, the circumstances, under which my termination of employ- 
ment with the Sperry Co. — these are the circumstances under which 
that occurred. It is true that I inquired of my superiors ; I inquired 
of various people in official capacity of the Sperry Co. to determine 
for what possible reason this action was taken. I was told that they 
were not told why this action was taken. They suggested finally, 
after some such inquiries, that I go to speak to a Navy officer in 
the Brooklyn Navy Yard. This I did. I conferred with him. He 
also stated he could not give me these reasons. I am not sure he knew 
them, but he stated he couldn't give them to me. 

Mr. Clardy. Was this a security officer of the Navy you were 
talking to? 

Mr. Harrison. I am not sure of his exact title. I am not sure of 
that. He finally suggested that I write to an Army agency. I re- 
member that particularly because this was a Navy officer, and it was a 
Navy project, I believe, that I worked on, but he referred me to some 
Army agency. I wrote to that Army agency to inquire why this action 
was taken, and I thinlv sometime later they wrote to me saying, in 
substance, that they could not divulge the reasons for this action, and 



5030 COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

that was the end result of it, and I know of no further matters related 
to this, 

Mr, Clardt. All right. Let me ask you this then : On the form that 
you had to fill out were there questions dealing with a possible Com- 
munist Party connection on your part which you did not answer ? 

]Mr. Harrison. I don't recall that, sir. I don't even have the vaguest 
recollection of what was on that form. 

Mr. Clardy. Isn't it a fact that you do know that those forms all 
have questions that deal with that subject, that that is one of the prime 
purposes for having 

Mr. Harrison. I don't believe so. There were many such forms 
that never mentioned the Communist Party or activity in the 

Mr. Clardy. Did the one you signed contain a statement that you 
were not then and never had been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. HxVRRisoN, I don't believe so, but as I sa}', I don't know, I have 
only the vaguest recollection about that particular form. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did any of the forms you signed in connection with 
these positions you held have some question on them inquiring as to 
your membership in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Harrison. I am sorry. I just don't recall any particular mat- 
ter that was on these forms, and I don't feel I can 

Mr. ScHERER, About how many forms did you fill out in connection 
with these various jobs you held ? 

Mr. Harrison, Tliere must have been many, many of them, from 
the very outset of my work with the Naval Ordnance Laboratory. 

Mr, Scherer, Without identifying any particular job, do you re- 
call that at least one of those forms had questions on it relating to 
Communist Party affiliations? 

Mr, Harrison, I would guess that none of them did, but they some- 
times do inquire in other ways concerning matters which are sup- 
posedly related to that, but as I recall it, I don't believe that that par- 
ticular question w^as asked on any of these forms. They sometimes do 
inquire as to whether you belonged to an organization that advocated 
the overthrow of the Government of the United States by force and 
violence, and there are other forms by which this question is asked, 
I say again, this particular question, placed as you put it, I don't think 
was on any of these forms, 

Mr, Scherer, You signed many forms and applications in connec- 
tion with the various jobs you have told us about, liaven't you ? 

Mr, Harrison. Yes, I have signed many such forms. 

Mr. Scherer. And your answer indicated you have been asked ques- 
tions with reference to Communist Party connections, is that right? 

]Mr, Harrison, No, I don't believe that is right, I don't recall that I 
was — I don't recall any such questions, I would be glad if you 
brought them to my attention, I don't recall them in that particular 
form, 

Mr. Scherer. Proceed, counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, as I understand it, clearance was denied you 
by the company ? 

Afr. nAKKisoN. Not by the company, by whatever agency, the Navy, 
3 })elieve in this case, determined such matters, 

Mr, Tavenner, Prior to tlie time that you were denied clearance to 
Avork on the.se projects at the Sperry Gyroscope Co, plant, had you 
been a member of the Communist Party ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5031 

Mr. Harrison. I believe that I have answered that question. I 
stand upon the grounds which I have ah^eady previously stated in de- 
clining to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. There has been brought to my attention an article 
in the Wayne Collegian attributing to you a statement that when the 
subpena was served upon you that you had no idea why the committee 
wanted to talk with you. Is that a correct quotation ? 

Mr. Harrison. I think it is substantially correct. I had no idea 
why the subpena was being served me, as I recall it. 

Mr. TAM2NNER. Do you recall that when the subpena was served on 
you by an investigator of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
that lie told you that he wanted to talk to you about what was con- 
tained in the records of this committee regarding Communist Party 
affiliations on your part and gave you his name and address at the 
Whittier Hotel and told you to get in touch with him if you would talk 
with him about it ? ^ 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. Is this relevant to the inquiry? Does the investiga- 
tor have the power of inquiring of prospective witnesses that 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, may I point out to you that you have made a 
public statement to the effect that you had absolutely no knowledge as 
to why on earth the subpena was served upon you, ^vhen as a matter 
of fact, the investigator who served it upon you did his utmost to ex- 
plain it to you, and you utterly refused to cooperate, to discuss ; in fact 
you became, as I recall it from his story to me, quite uncooperative in- 
stantly and refused to talk about it. Now, we want the correctness or 
the incorrectness of what I have said laid out on the record at the 
moment. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field. ) 

Mr. Harrison. Well, I — just a moment, please. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mv. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. Well, I don't see that I have any duty to cooperate 
with investigators. I made a statement to the effect that two investi- 
gators, including Mr. Appell — the name of the other gentleman I 
don't recall, but it was stated at the time 

]\Ir. McClardy. He is here in the courtroom. 

Mr. Harrison. It was stated at the time — they simply came into 
my office. As I recall it, Mr. Appell provided me with his identity. 
I looked at it. The picture appeared to be his. I asked them what 
they wanted. I don't recall the exact exchange of words. There 
weren't many words spoken. None of them were angry or of any 
emotional nature as I recall it. They simply handed me the subpena. 
They stated that if I desired, I might come to him at his hotel and 
discuss this matter with him, which I couldn't see that it was in any- 
way my duty or obligation to do, and I proceeded not to do so. 

Mr. Clardy. Didn't he, as a matter of fact, tell you that he wanted 
to discuss with you any possible Communist connections that you 
might have and that we had information in our files dealing with that 
subject, and didn't you then and thereupon decline to discuss? 

Mr. Harrison. He mentioned nothing about the files. 

I don't recall that he mentioned anything about files or information. 

Mr. Clardy. Did he or did he not discuss that with you? 

Mr. Harrison. I don't recall the exact words that were stated. 
There was no such discussion 



5032 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Clardy. My question will permit a yes or no answer. Did he 
discuss that or any part of that subject I have discussed with you 
at that time ? Yes or no and then any explanation you care to give. 

Mr. Harrison. I don't know whether I can answer that yes or no. 
I think it was substantially as I have stated it. He presented me with 
this subpena, with this summons to appear before this committee. 
There were a few words, but very few words spoken. He mentioned 
nothing about files of this committee that I recall, and I must admit 
that my recollection may not be entirely accurate of this, but there 
were ver}^ few words spoken, and he simply left at that point. 

Mr. Clardy. Was the word "Communist" used at any time ? 

Mr. Harrison. I don't recall, sir. It may have been, I don't recall. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you at that time ask him for any explanation as 
to why the subpena was being served ? 

Mr. Harrison. Well, I didn't see that that was proper. I didn't 
know whether he was the proper authority to provide me with such 
an explanation. It seemed to me he was given the authority to 
present me with the summons, and I accepted the summons, and I 
felt thnt my duty had been completed at that point. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you have any curiosity at all at that time as to 
why you were being subpenaed? 

Mr. Harrison. I think I might have guessed what a committee such 
as this might be interested in doing in presenting me with this 
subpena. 

Mr. Clardy. But you did not ask any questions? 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

]\Tr. Harrison. I had no duty to ask any questions there ; no. 

ISIr. Clardy. I am not asking you whether you had any duty. I am 
just trying to establish the fact as to whether you did or did not. Did 
you or did you not? 

Mr. Harrison. I don't recall that I did. 

Mr. Clardy. You may proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the investigator tell you that the committee 
possessed information regarding j^ou? Whether he used "files" or 
not; did he say he had information regarding communism? 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. I decline to answer that question. I don't see how 
it can be relevant to the inquiry which this committee is supposed to 
be conducting. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, in view of the public statement that you have 
made and which you have admitted that you made here, I noAv direct 
you to answer that question. And Mr. Counsel, before the proceed- 
ing is concluded, I ask that we make part of the record as an exhibit 
a copy of the release. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. Is this question being asked as to my credibility? 
I don't understand the nature of this question and how it pertains to- 
this committee's function. Could you explain that to me? 

Mr. Clardy. It isn't necessary to explain it, but I will. You have 
attempted, sir, through the public press, to create the impression that 
you had absolutely no idea whatsoever as to why a subpena was served, 
and you have sought also to create the impression that the committee 
has served it upon you without having any information in its pos- 
session whatsoever to justify doing so. We are seeking to discover- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5033 

whether or not you will tell us the facts with regard to the incident 
as it actually happened, not as you reported it in the press. Now you 
have an opportunity to explain here. Counsel will now proceed to 
ask the rest of the questions, but I ask that you answer that last ques- 
tion or refuse to answer it as you may desire. 

Mr. Harrison. And what is this last question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The last question was whether or not, at the time 
of service of the subpena by Mr. Appell, the investigator for this com- 
mittee, you were told by him that the committee possessed certain 
information relating to Communist Party affiliations on your part? 

Mr. Harrison. I don't remember, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. You will not deny that it may have been said ? 

Mr. Harrison. I said I don't remember. 

Mr. Clardy. I am asking you, will you deny that it was said ? 

Mr. Harrison. If I don't remember, I don't see how I can deny 
what was said. 

Mr. Clardy. Then you are not in a position to either affirm or deny 
at the moment? 

Mr. Harrison. That is correct. 

Mr. Clardy. Very well. Proceed, counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer in evidence the April 19, 1954, 
issue of the Wayne Collegian and ask that it be marked Harrison 
Exhibit No. 1, for identification only. 

Mr. Clardy. It will be received. 

(The April 19, 1954, issue of the Wayne Collegian, marked "Harri- 
son Exhibit No. 1," was received in evidence.)^ 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you gentlemen have any further questions? 

Mr. Harrison. Mr. Chairman, may I again bring this motion 
which I made at the outset to your attention ? 

Mr. Clardy. We have ruled on the motion. Witness. We have 
ruled on it with finality. It has been denied. I first denied it tem- 
porarily, and told you we would read it and consider it. We have 
considered it, and we deny it. _ 

Mr. PIarrison. Will the chairman introduce this in the record in 
its entirety, that this motion was stated and read into the record? 

Mr. Clardy. We will put it in the files, and the full committee will 
take such action at the proper time as is necessary. I am going to 
discover whether any of these other members have any questions. 
Mr. Field, at the noon recess I would like to have a few words with 
you. You know the subject matter I have in mind. 

Mr. Scherer seems to have some questions at the moment. 

Mr. Scherer. You lived in Boston at one time, did you not, Mr. 
Harrison ? 

Mr. Harrison. Yes, I did. I lived in Boston at one time. 

Mr. Scherer. When was it you lived in Boston ? 

Mr. Harrison. It was quite some time ago. If I recall correctly, 
it was about 10 years ago. 

Mr. Scherer. Isn't it a fact that when you lived in Boston you 
were educational director of the Frederick Douglass Southeast Branch, 
of the Communist Party of Boston, Mass. ? 



* Retained in committee files. 
48861 — 54 — pt. 1 i 



5034 COACVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr, Harrison. Well, in view of the nature of that question I 
think I have already indicated that that type of question will be 
given the same answer which I have previously given. 

Mr. ScHERER. You decline to answer, then, for the same reason? 

Mr. Harrisox. I object very much to this type of testimony being 
introduced in the record which gives me no opportunity to cross- 
examine witnesses that might have made such allegations or any 
of the due-process provisions of the Constitution. 

Mr. Ci^^RDT. Witness, may I point out you are being given an 
ample opportunity to deny it if in fact you were not such a member, 
and you are being given that opportunity simultaneously with the 
asking of the question. If you were not a member, no harm can come 
to you from saying so. If you were, you cannot be punished in any 
court in the land for that admission. I direct, therefore, that you 
answer the question. 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Clardt. As Mr. Scherer points out, the statute of limitations, 
if there had been any crime connected with that, which there was not, 
long ago elapsed in view of what you were saying. 

Mr. Harrison. If I were in a court I think I would consider answer- 
ing questions such as that where I would be given rights guaranteed 
which are mine. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, under the rule you either answer or decline. 

Mr. Harrison. I decline to answer that question as I have already 
stated, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Scherer. Isn't it a fact that as late as 1950 you were a member 
of the Nat Turner section of the Communist Party of the State of 
Michigan ? 

(At this point Mr. Harrison conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Harrison. I have the same objection, and I decline to answer 
that question for the grounds already given, and I object to this man- 
ner of smearing of witnesses on the basis 

Mr. Clardy. There is no smear, sir, in asking you whether you have 
been a member of the party when you have ample opportunity under 
oath to deny the connection with that subversive organization. If 
you do not choose to do so, you make your own bed, and you must lie 
in it. Now tell us whether you answer or do not. 

Mr. Harrison. I do not choose to make a political spectacle — a pub- 
lic spectacle of my political ideas and affiliations, and I believe that 
the rules here being laid down by this committee — as I have stated, 
this committee is depriving me of the opportunity to face and cross- 
examine witnesses. As President Eisenhower himself has said, we in 
this country believe in this principle of having the riglit to face and 
cross-examine those who might accuse us, and I believe that Mr. 
Scherer has essentially accused me of something in a public trial — 
which this actually is — and I believe I should have the right 

Mr. Clardy. I give you now the opportunity to answer and then to 
summon up any witness you may care to at the proper time at our 
mutual convenience to support your denial if you do deny it. 

Mr. Harrison. This is placing logic on its lioad. A person is inno- 
cent until proven guilty. It is up to this committee to provide the evi- 
dence upon which any allegations are made. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5035 

Mr. ScHERER. You said Mr. Scherer has accused you. Let us assume 
that I have accused you of membership in the Communist Party in the 
two instances which I have mentioned. Is my accusation correct or 
false? 

Mr. Hareison. As I have stated, I believe that it is improper for a 
congressional committee to publicly accuse people in such a manner as 
this committee is doing, depriving me of my rights under the Con- 
stitution. 

Mr. Scherer. And you have a public opportunity to deny if my 
accusation is false. 

Mr. Harrison. I will not make a public spectacle of my political 
views. 

Mr. Scherer. I understand. 

Mr, Clardy. You are refusing '^o answer on the grounds already 
advanced ? 

Mr. Harrison. That is corre':t. 

Mr. Scherer. In view of your testimony, of course, I can come — 
find I can see how no reasonable individual can come — to no other 
conclusion but that you were a member of the party in those two 
instances. 

Mr. Harrison. The courts do not come to such a conclusion, and 
this is a quasi -court here which denies me my constitutional privilege. 

Mr. Clardy. jNIr. Moulder? 

Mr. Moulder. I want to verify. As I understand, the witness' 
contention is that if there is any basis for the questions asked, the 
witnesses should be produced here to testify. 

Mr. Harrison. "Well, here or in the proper circumstances. If this 
were a court of law, we would proceed in that manner. 

Mr. ISIouLDER. As I understand, that is your opinion ? 

Mr. Harrison. Yes; or to a grand jury or whatever the proper 
facilities are for enforcing the law, 

Mr. Clardy. Do I understand at such time as the committee does 
produce a witness who testifies you are a member of the party, will you 
then answer the questions then propounded to you ? 

Mr. Harrison. Provided this is done in the proper way, and I am 
given all the rights to face him, to cross-examine him, to present 
contrary evidence; if I am given all the guaranties which I think 
I have a right to as a private citizen, and I think that I might then 
consider this, but under the present circumstances  

Mr. Clahdy. If 5^ou are identified by a witness at some time in the 
progress of the hearing by the Un-American Activities Committee, 
then you will appear and testify and answer freely and frankly 

Mr. Harrison. Under the circumstances 

Mr. Clardy. Wait a minute. You will appear and answer all the 
questions that have been propounded to you ? 

Mr. Harrison. I think many of these witnesses that the Un-Amer- 
ican Committee is planning to call up are completely discredited in the 
eyes of most enlightened people, and I don't see why I should be 
called to answer for that type of testimony. 

Mr. Clardy. All right. Do you have any further questions, 
counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Xo further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Very well. The witness is dismissed. We will have 
a 5-minute recess. 



5036 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

(Whereupon, at 11 a. m., the hearing was recessed to reconvene at 
11:05 a. m.) 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 20 a. m., the hearing was reconvened.) 

Mr. Clardy. The committee will be in session. Counsel, call your 
next witness. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Mr. Irving Stein. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you raise your right hand Do you solemnly 
swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole- 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Stein. I do. 

JNIr. Clardy. And are you, as I see, represented by Mr. Field ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes ; I am. 

TESTIMONY OF IRVING STEIN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

G. LESLIE EIELD 

Mr. Clardy. Let the record so note. 

Mr. Stein. I would like to request that no pictures of any kind 
be taken in the courtroom while I am testifying, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. I have issued instructions to start with that we have 
no flashlights popping in your face at any time during the proceed- 
ing from here on out. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Stein. Is it proper for me to ask that no pictures of any kind 
be taken in the courtroom ? 

Mr. Clardy. It is proper for you to ask, but under the committee 
rules I am prohibiting any flashlight pictures from being taken from 
here on out. 

Mr. Sit:in. I see. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Field. May I ask the indulgence of the committee that we make 
the same motion and file the same brief with respect to Mr. Stein as 
we did to Professor Harrison ? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, sir; we have broken the rule for you again, sir, 
and we will receive it. 

Mr. Field. Thank you. 

Mr. Clardy. We will treat it in the several instances in which you 
will appear, if that is agreeable to you. 

Mr. Field. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. And, of course, at each time we will show you a good 
impartial denial of your motion. 

Mr. Field. Thank you. 

Mr. Stein. May I have the reasons for the denial of the motion? 

Mr. Clardy. You may not at this time, sir, except that we do not 
accept them as sound, and they have been rejected before. Proceed', 
Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Stein. My name is Irving Stein. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live ? 

Mr. Stein. I live at 3744 Boston, Detroit. 

Mr. Tavknxer. How long have you lived in the city of Detroit?.' 

Mr. Stein. Approximately 3 years, a little less. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession ? 

Mr. Si^EiN. I am a teacher of pnysics. 

Mr. Tavenner. At what institution? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5037 

Mr. Stein. At Wayne University. 

Mr. Ta\^enner. How long have you been a teacher at Wayne Uni- 
versity ? 

Mr. Steix. I think I am completing my third year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your for- 
mal educational training has been ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes, I have a bachelor's degree in physics, a master of 
science in physics, a master of arts in math. I think I have just about 
-completed most of my work for my doctoral in physics. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. At what institution ? 

Mr. Stein. I got my bachelor's at Queens College in New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien ? 

Mr. Stein. 1942. I got my M. S. in physics at Stanford, I think, in 
1949 and my M. A. in math at University of Oregon, I believe 1950. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. In order to facilitate our ascertainment of your 
record of employment I hand you a photostatic copy of a personal 
data sheet from Wayne University and ask you to identify it as yours, 
if you will. 

Mr. Stein. I have here a document in which my name appears. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you look at it and state whether or not it gives 
the facts correctly on the second page regarding your former employ- 
ment ? 

Mr. Stein. I believe it essentially does except for perhaps part-time 
work and work which perhaps was not relevant to my teaching position 
here at Wayne for which this was an application, I understand. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce the document for identification 
only and have it marked "Stein exhibit No. 1." 

Mr. Clardy. It will be received. 

(The photostatic copy of a personal data sheet from Wayne Uni- 
versity marked "Stein exhibit No. 1" was received in evidence.)^ 

Mr. Tavenner. This document shows that the address given by you 
at the time of your preparation of it, the date being September 7, 1951, 
is 1017 Gilman, Berkeley 6, Calif. Was that your correct address at 
that time ? 

Mr. Stein. Yes, that was my correct address. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you live in an apartment house or a private 
home at that address ? 

Mr. Stein. I lived in a veterans' housing project then. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the housing project have any other descrip- 
tion of your quarters other than just the number 1017? For instance, 
did it have a letter, A, B, C, D, or what not ? 

Mr. Stein. It might have. I have no remembrance. I couldn't 
say one way or another. 

Mr. Tavenner. You do not recall. How long were you in attend- 
ance at school in Oregon ? 

Mr. Stein. Approximately 1 year. 

Mr. Taa^nner. A^^iere did you live at that time ? "What was your 
address ? 

Mr. Stein. I don't remember the address. I think it was something 
like 27th or 28th Avenue or Street. I don't remember any more than 
that. It was in Eugene, Oreg. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. In Eugene, Oreg. ? 



* Retained in committee files. 



5038 COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Stein, That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you live in an apartment house or a private 
home ? 

Mr. Stein. I lived in a rented home. It was a house, a rented house, 
rather. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you occupy it solely, or did you occupy it with 
other people ? 

Mr. Stein. I occupied it with my wife. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Was there anyone else occupying the house besides 
your own family ; that is, you and j^our wife ? 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. I stated previously that I lived there Avith my wife, and 
I think this is all — I feel that the committee has no autliority to 
investigate into my personal life any more and decide who is living 
with me, if anybody can live with me. 

Mr. Tavenner. From whom did you rent the part of the house that 
was being occupied by you ? 

Mr. Stein. There is some inference here that there was only part 
of the house that was- 

Mr. Tavenner. Suppose you set us straight on it. That is what ] 
am trying to get you to do. 

Mr. Stein. My landlord and landlady — ; gain I don't remember 
their names. They own the house. I don't r member who they were. 

Mr. Moulder. How long did you reside at this house that is being 
referred to in your testimony ? 

Mr. Stein. I answered previously about 1 3 ear, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. That was during what year? 

Mr. Stein. I think it was 1949 to 1950, but I think you can check 
in your records and verify that. 

Mr. Moulder. And you state now that you don't remember the 
name of your landlord from whom you rented a house for a full period 
of 1 year ? 

Mr. Stein. I am sorry. 

Mr. Moulder. Approximately 4 years ago? 

Mr. Stein. I am sorry; I truthfully and honestly do not remember 
the name of the landlord. 

Mr. Moulder. Did you pay the rent montlily ? 

Mr. Stein. I imagine that was the method. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did any other family occupy a part of the dwelling? 

Mr. Stein. I think I have answered that, Counsel, by stating that 
I don't feel that this committee has authority to delve into my personal 
life or who I lived with. 

Mr. Clardy. That is not an answer. Witness. That is merely argu- 
ment why you shouldn't. Are you declining to answer? If so, the 
Chair directs that you do so. 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. Will the Counsel please tell me in what manner this 
question is pertinent to the hearing? 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, answer the question. Do not argue with the 
Counsel. 

Mr. Stein. I am going to answer the question in the following 
way 

Mr. Clardy. You what? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5039 

Mr. Stein. I am going to answer this question in the following 
way: I, in all good faith, ask the question of the relevancy. The 
relevancy was not made clear to me. Therefore, on the following 
grounds I decline to answer this question: First of all, I feel that the 
committee has no right to inquire into my personal life ; second of all, 
I fear that by what is happening here right now that the committee 
may compel me in some way to be a witness against myself, and there- 
fore I decline to answer the question. I therefore use the fii-st and 
the fifth amendments. 

Mr. Clardy. You say you are apprehensive that you will be charged 
with some criminal act if you do so answer ? 

Mr. Stein. I have answered the question. I stand on my answer, sir. 

INIr. Clardt. You have in effect said that you are apprehensive of a 
criminal prosecution. If you are genuinely so, you might use the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Stein. I might make the point that there is no inference here 
of guilt here and the Supreme Court has declared so. 

Mr. Clardy. If there is any inference, it will be drawn by someone 
else. Proceed, Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what business was the person engaged who occu- 
pied part of the house with you ? 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. The same answer, the same grounds, sir; there is an 
inference made. 

Mr. Clardy. You mean same declination to answer ? 

Mr. Stein. That is right; I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you know, without specifying the type of business 
this person was engaged in — do you know what type of business the 
person was engaged? 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. ]\Ir. Congressman, it seems that you are making a very 
decided inference, an incorrect inference, to the answer I gave. I did 
not state "Yes" or "No" to the question of whether or not anybody 
was living in the house besides my wife and myself, and I am now 
declining to answer this question on the same grounds as previousl}'^ 
stated. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that the witness be directed to answer the ques- 
tion whether he has any knowledge of the type of business the indi- 
vidual to which the counsel referred was engaged in. 

Mr. Clardy. You are so directed. 

Mr. Stein. I decline to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you from time to time or at any time assist 
that individual in the p^erformance of any of his duties or work? 

Mr. Stein. I would like to make the same objection and decline to 
answer on the previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Counsel, I think mavbe it might be well at this time to 
call attention to something else. The fifth amendment that is being 
invoked, that part of it that applies, is very simple, and I think I will 
call it to the witness' attention. The only part that can have any ap- 
plication reads, "nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be 
a witness against himself." Proceed. 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 



5040 COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
CarlSandell? 

Mr. Stein. I decline to answer on the same grounds as previously 
stated. 

Mr. Clardt. Witness, have you ever heard the name of Carl Sandell 
prior to the time that counsel mentioned it just now? 

INIr. Stein. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds, 
on all the grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any knowledge whatsoever concerning 
the individual by that name? 

Mr. Stein. I decline to answer the question on the same grounds, 
for the same reasons. 

JMr. ScHERER. Isn't it a fact you know he was the Communist Party 
organizer ? ^ Isn't that a fact ? 

Mr. Stein. I don't know what your purpose is in maligning whoever 
you are maligning in this way. However, I decline to answer any 
questions of such a nature on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. And also on the grounds of the motion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time assist Carl Sandell in the per- 
formance of the Communist Party organizational work? 

Mr. Stein. Counsel, I would b-e very happy to assist the committee 
in shortening the sessions. My answer to all questions of such a 
nature shall be that I decline to answer on the grounds that I have 
previously stated : and, if you wish, I will restate those grounds. 

Mr. Scherer. Wait a minute ; you have made up your mind already 
to refuse to answer on the ground of the fifth amendment any ques- 
tions this committee is going to ask you? 

Mr. Stein. I didn't say that. Congressman. 

]Mr. Scherer, Along this line? 

Mr. Stein. I have stated specifically here that I do not feel that 
the committee has authority to investigate into my personal life, my 
personal associations. I firmly believe that the first amendment and 
the Bill of Rights prohibits you from asking questions like this. Fur- 
thermore, I believe that because of the nature of the hearing here, the 
type of questions asked, and the general history of the committee, I 
have a reasonable fear of an entrapment into a possible unjustified 
prosecution. I refuse to be compelled to be a witness against myself 
in any criminal proceeding, and this is in the nature of a criminal 
proceeding. 

Mr. Clardy. You are apprehensive then that something in your 
past may be revealed through a chain of circumstances if you answer 
any of these questions; is that what you mean? 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to let the chairman put words into my mouth. 

Mr. Clardy. I am asking you, sir, and you may deny or affirm or 
explain. 

Mr. Stetn. I will stand on the answer previously given. 

Mr. Clardy. Any further questions? 

Mr. Scherer. No. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Counsel. 



1 For the State of Oregon. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5041 

Mr. Tavenner. I notice from the application for employment at 
Wayne University that you give as your employment from June 1942 
to February 1943 Signal Corps Eaclar Laboratory. What was the 
nature of your employment there at the Signal Corps Radar Labora- 
tory, and where was it ? 

Mr. Clardy. I was going to say, let us establish first where that 
was. 

Mr. Stein. The installation where it was know^n as Camp Evans. 
The post office address was Belmar, N. J. 

Mr. Tavenner. What w^as the nature of your employment at that 
time, 1942 to 1943? 

Mr. Stein. I was hired, upon getting my bachelor of science degree, 
as a junior physicist, and when I left, a period of 8 months later, 
I was an assistant radio engineer. Although the titles w^ere dif- 
ferent, my work was essentially of the same nature. 

Mr. Clardy. The office title was Signal Corps Radar Laboratory? 

Mr. Stein. I believe that was it, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Is that the one located at or near Fort Monmouth? 

Mr. Stein. It is located near Fort Monmouth. 

Mr. Clardy. It is the one commonly referred to in the newspapers 
as the Fort Monmoutli Radar Laboratory, is it? 

Mr. Stein. I would suggest that this be checked. I have no idea 
what it is now. At that time the installation 

Mr. Clardy. It is the only one in that vicinity. 

Mr. Stein. May I finish, sir? At that time there was an installa- 
tion called Fort Monmouth, and I at the time did not work at Fort 
Monmouth. 

Mr. Clardy. It is the only radar laboratory in the vicinity of Fort 
Monmouth, isn't it, at the present time ? 

Mr. Stein. There were a number of laboratories there. All I 
know is I worked at the one located at Camp Evans, Belmar, N. J. If 
there has been any change in identity, I am sure you probably know 
that better than I do. 

Mr. Clardy. We probably do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it under the jurisdiction of the commanding 
officer of Fort Monmouth ? 

Mt. Stein. I don't believe so, but I couldn't say for sure. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a civilian employee ? 

Mr. Stein. I was that, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your position? 

Mr. Stein. I stated before, I was hired as a junior physicist and 
went up one grade to assistant radio engineer. Does this answer 
your question ? 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Not fully. What was the character of the work 
that you did ? 

Mr. Stein. I believe I was attached to the patent section there, 
which had the purpose of investigation the patentability of various 
new developments in the work being done there. I was an as- 
sistant^ 

Mr. Tavenner. Secret work or new work being done in what 
field? 

Mr. Stein. In radar. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. In radar. 



5042 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Stein. This was a radar installation. How secret the work 
was, I could not say. I know it was classified, and I was an as- 
sistant to a patent attorney, I was to advise him on the technical 
matters involved. 

Mr. ScHERER. All classified work is secret, isn't it? 

Mr. Stein. I am not sure of the various types of words they 
have to designate various types of secrecy. I know it was classi- 
fied, and this is all I can say. 

Mr. ScHERER. Classified means in substance secret, doesn't it? 

Mr. Stein. I think I made my point, Mr. Congressman, that there 
are various types of secrecy. 

Mr. ScHERER. I understand there are various types of secrecy, but 
with reference to the degree of secrecy it doesn't make any difference; 
classified is secret. What degree it is is another question. 

Mr. Stein. We understand each other now. That is right. 

Mr. ScHERER. All right. What I said is correct, isn't it? 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you sign and file a form 57 in connection with 
your employment? 

]\Ir. Stein. I signed the forms that were required of me for employ- 
ment. This happened a period of 11 or 12 or so many years ago that I 
do not remember exactly the nature of the form or what was con- 
tained therein. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, have you not heard of the form No, 57 in con- 
nection with Government business? 

Mr. Stein. I may ; I may not have. As I said, this happened about 
12 years ago. 

Mr. Clardy. It is a common form and still in use. ]\Iy question is, 
haven't you heard of the fact that there is a form 57? 

Mr. Stein. If you tell me, I will believe you that there is a form 57. 

Mr. Ci^\RDY. I am not telling you anything. I am asking you. Do 
you know that ? 

Mr. Stein. I have answered that. 

Mr. Clardy. No, you have evaded answering. INIy question is, do 
you know it or not. You either do or you do not. Let us hear. 

Mr. Stein. Can I truthfully say that I am not sure if there is? 

Mr. Clardy. Sure. 

Mr. Stein. That I did sign a form, whatever its number was. 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't ask whether you signed one. I am just asking 
you whether you know there is such a form as No. 57? 

Mr. Stein. I can't say I do know or don't know. All I know is tha*"- 
when I made application, T signed some forms. Whether or not the 
same type of forms exist todav I don't know. 

INfr. Ci.ARDY. Very well. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall wliether or not the form contained a 
question relating to your then or prior membership in certain organiza- 
tions? 

Mr. Stein. I do not remember. I do not remember what the ques- 
tions of that nature were. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee whether at the time that 
you sicned the necessary forms for your employment at the Signal 
Corps Radar Laboratory that you were a member of the Communist. 
Party? 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. Would the counsel please repeat the question? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5043 

Mr. Clardt. Kead it, Miss Reporter. 

(The question was read by the reporter as follows :) 

Will you tell the committee whether at the time that you signed the necessary 
forms for your employment at the Signal Corps Radar Laboratory that you were a 
member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Stein. Well, I don't remember anything — I don't generally re- 
member the questions on the form. I would rather that counsel please 
rephrase the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I didn't ask you what you stated on the form be- 
cause you said you didn't recall, so my question is whether or not at 
the time that you signed and filed the papers that you did file in 
connection with that employment you were actually a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. Mr. Counsel, in view of the nature of the hearings and 
the previous reasons stated, I decline to answer that question on the 
grounds previously stated and also on the grounds of the motion 
presented. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. The application for employment at Wayne Uni- 
versity filed by you shows that you were employed from 1943 to 1944 
by the United States Army as a radar technician. Where did that 
employment take place? 

Mr. Stein. I was employed as a soldier. I was getting a soldier's 
rate of pay. I don't think it is generally referred to as employment. 
I was in the Army then. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were not a civilian employee? 

Mr. Stein. Yes. Would the counsel now please rephrase the ques- 
tion ? 

Mr. Clardt. W^itness, you were at least working even if you were a 
soldier, weren't you? 

Mr. Stein. I certainly was working when I was in the Army. 

Mr. Clardt. You were working at the business that you have al- 
ready described with some particular as a soldier? 

Mr. Stein. Let me state this, that I did not work at that particular 
occupation or Army specialty during the whole time I was in there 
just because I had previous educational background in it. I think, 
as most people know, sometimes in the Army you don't work at the 
things that you supposedly were prepared for. 

Mr. Scherer. Wliat Mr. Tavenner — — 

Mr. Stein. May I finish? 

Mr. Scherer. No, I am going to interrupt. Wliat Mr. Tavenner 
read to you you put in the application when you took employment at 
Wayne University. 

Mr. Stein. I certainly did, and a good part of the time I did work 
at that time. 

Mr. Clardt. Will counsel ask the question again and we will get 
an answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. The only question was, where did you perform that 
work ? 

Mr. Stein. Perhaps I can clarify the situation by giving the coun- 
sel — expand a little on that, may I ? 

Mr. Clardt. Just answer first. 

Mr. Tavenner. A little, not too much. 

Mr. Stein. Just a little. 



5044 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Clardy. The Chair has a little bit of control here, I hope. Wit- 
ness, first answer the question directly with the name of the camp or 
the location and then if you have some explanation, you may append 
that. 

Mr. Stein. Well, after I entered the Army I was sent first to a 
radar school. Now there I got my training as a radar technician. 

Mr. Clardy. That was where? 

Mr. Stein. This was at Camp Murphy in Florida. I believe that 
is the name. 

JVIr. Clardy. All right. "What was the next step? 

Mr. Stein, Then I was sent back to my regular outfit, which at 
that time was stationed around Washington, D. C. However, I 
recollect that for a period of time my work — my specialty at that time 
was, I think, on the 80-millimeter gim, on the machinegun and other 
things besides radar, for I don't know how long. I also served as a 
particular type of clerk in the Army. 

Mr. Clardy. Where? 

Mr. Stein. Let me see. The Army sent me then down to Camp 
Davis, N. C, I think. 

Mr. ScHERER. What kind of clerical work did you do ? 

Mr. Stein. It was battalion clerical work, checking the records of 
men. This is about all I remember. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. Stein. This is about all. I don't remember exactly when I was 
working as a radar technician and when I was shifted to other work. 
It was on and off. 

Mr. Clardy. We merely asked you the point. Counsel, will you go 
ahead. 

Mr, ScHERER. Let me ask one question. Were you a member of the 
Communist Party during the time you were in the Army? 

(At this point "Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. I think you know the answer to that, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. I think, I do, too; fifth amendment. 

INIr. Stein. I have stated my reasons, and they are more complete 
than what you have stated. 

Mr. Clardy, Do I understand you are refusing to answer on the 
grounds previously advanced? 

Mr. Stein. I decline to answer on the previously stated grounds and 
the whole grounds. 

Mr, Clardy. We will record it in your way. 

Mr. Stein. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, counsel, 

Mr. Tavenner. I notice that your application for employment is 
dated September 7, 1951, and your address was 1017 Gilman, Berkeley, 
Calif. Do you recall whether or not shortly prior to that time you 
were active in an organization in Oakland or Berkeley entitled "Com- 
mittee for the American Peace Crusade," and what the nature of 
it was? 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred Avith Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. I can restate the reasons if counsel would like, I think 
it might bear restating since the counsel insists upon reasking the 
question. However, I decline to answer this question on the grounds 
previously stated. 



COlSiMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5045 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you the July 11, 1951, issue of the Daily 
People's World, and I call your attention to an article on the lef thand 
margin entitled "East Bay Peace Delegates Plan Friday Report." 
Will you examine it, please, and tell the committee what it is about? 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien I said tell the committee what it is about, I 
meant tell the committee what knowledge you have of its activities. 

Mr. Stein. Counsel, this is your exhibit. I suggest that you read 
it. I certainly won't read it for you. 

Mr. Clardy. Just a moment, just a moment. Do I understand cor- 
rectly that you are refusing to comply with the request of counsel ? 

Mr. Stein. The counsel asked me to read it. I looked at it, I don't 
know if he wants me to read it aloud. If so, I don't feel that the 
committee can compel me to read something aloud. 

Mr. Tavenner. By "read it," I meant look at it. I think that is 
quite obvious. 

Mr. Clardy. You have read it ? 

Mr. Stein. I have looked at it. 

Mr. Clardy. That doesn't answer my question. You can look at 
it without reading it. Have you read it ? 

Mr. Stein. Am I compelled to read it ? 

Mr. Clardy. Some questions may be based on it, and I want you 
to be fully advised so you won't plead ignorance. 

Mr. Stein. May I have it read to me ? 

Mr. Clardy. No, you may look at it. 

Mr. Stein. I have looked at it. 

Mr. Clardy. Very well. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you look again, please, and state what address 
is given at the bottom of the article as to the place where tickets may 
be obtained for use at that meeting? 

Mr. Stein. I think that the exhibit speaks for itself, counsel. 

Mr. Tavi'^nner. What does it say? 

Mr. Clardy. Let us not adopt that attitude. Answer the question 
and read from that the address. You have been requested to do so. 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. Congressman, you have asked me, or I get the feeling 
you are demanding that I read this, and if you demand, I decline to 
read this on the grounds that you might be compelling me to be a 
witness against myself. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you read it so you understand what it says? 

Mr. Stein. I have looked at it, and counsel, I think, has indicated 
to me what he says is there. 

Mr. Clardy. I have directed you to answer, and I do so again. 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. And have you informed yourself by reading it closely 
enough so that you could have answered counsel's question had you 
chosen to do so ? 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Clardy. I want this record clear because at this point this 
attitude of yours will leave me no alternative but to recommend a 
contempt citation if you persist, and I am therefore advising you so 
you will act in a calculated manner. 



5046 COaiMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF IkllCHIGAN 

Mr. Stein. I have read it to myself. 

Mr. Clardy. You understand it ? 

Mr. Stein. I understand it. 

Mr. Clardy. Very well. But you are still refusing to answer ? 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. All right. Proceed, counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is not the address given that of Berkeley, 1017-C 
Gilman Street ? 

Mr. Stein. I decline to answer that for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is the same number given in your applica- 
tion for employment at Wayne University and as your address at 
Berkeley, is it not ? 

Mr. Stein. The application speaks for itself, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the issue of the Daily People's 
World in evidence and ask that it be marked "Stein exhibit No. 2." 

Mr. Clardy. It will be received. 

(The issue of the Daily People's World marked "Stein exhibit 
No, 2" was received in evidence.)^ 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a subscriber to the Daily People's World? 

Mr. Stein. Counsel, it seems to me that this is a highly improper 
question since you are asking whether or not I have subscribed to a 
certain newspaper here. I therefore decline to answer this on the 
grounds of the first amendment and also on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. ScHERER. You mean being a subscriber to a newspaper might 
tend to incriminate you '? 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. I stand on my answer. 

Mr. Clardy. If I should ask you the same question as to whether 
you read the Detroit News or Detroit Times or Detroit Free Press, 
would you refuse to answer ? 

Mr. Stein. I stand on my answer. 

Mr. Clardy. You would refuse to answer that ? 

Mr. Stein. I stand on my answer. 

Mr. Clardy. I do ask you. Do you read any one of those papers? 

Mr. Stein. I stand on my answer. 

Mr. Clardy. What do you mean by that, that you are refusing to 
answer on the grounds already given ? 

Mr. Stein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Very well. I direct you to answer then. 

Mr. Stein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Very well. Proceed, counsel. 

Ml*. Tavenner. After coming to Detroit did you become a member 
of the Wayne University chapter of the Detroit Federation of 
Teachers? 

Mr. Stein. I see no authority by which this or any other con- 
gressional committee can investigate the union activities of any par- 
ticular individual. I therefore, on both the first and fifth amend- 
ments, decline to answer this question. 



> Retained In committee files. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5047 

Mr. Tavenner. Then I assume that you will answer no questions 
involving any Communist Party activities within that group or any 
methods used by the Communist Party in an effort to obtain a posi- 
tion of influence and control in that group ? 

Mr. Stein. Your assumption is correct and on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then, Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions 
except this : Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Stein. I decline to answer that on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. TA^^5NNER. Have you been a member of the Communist Party 
any time since your discharge from the Army and the present time ? 

Mr. Stein. Same answer, same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardt. Any questions, gentlemen ? 

Mr. Moulder. No, except to make an observation, that as I under- 
stand, in response to the question propounded to you by Mr. Tavenner, 
his assumption that you would refuse to answer questions concerning 
certain activities carries with it the inference or at least a strong 
inference of admission that you have knowledge of such activities. 

Mr. Stein. No such inferences may be drawn. Congressman. No 
such inference may be drawn at all. Congressman. I would like to 
state that I feel that this committee is overstepping its bounds, that 
certainly all congressional committees have the right to investigate. 
However, I think that on the grounds of the motion that has been 
submitted to you, my subpena should be quashed, and I think that the 
type of questions asked here, the attempt to entrap people, is in viola- 
tion of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Scherer. Are we overstepping our bounds when we ask whether 
or not you are a member of the Communist Party today — after all 
that has transpired and all we we know about the Communist 
conspiracy in this country ? Are we overstepping our bounds in ask- 
ing you that question ? 

(At this point Mr. Stein conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Stein. There are plenty of laws to take care of the situation 
without the committee asking questions 

Mr. Scherer. You raised the question. I am asking you now 
whether you say we are overstepping our bounds ? 

Mr. Stein. I didn't raise any question. I made a statement here. 

Mr. Scherer. You made a statement, all right. 

Mr. Stein. That is right. 

Mr. Scherer. I am asking you whether it applies to the question 
as to your present party membership, whether we are overstepping 
our bounds ? 

JVIr. Stein. Yes ; I think you are overstepping your bounds. 

Mr. Clardy. When we ask you whether you are a member of the 
Communist conspiracy today? 

Mr. Stein. You have made certain statements in the newspapers, 
where the newspapers have quoted you 

Mr. Clardy. No; you are in error, sir. You gentlemen who have 
made the statement have impelled us to make some reply. There are 
no further questions. The hearing will be adjourned until 1 : 30 this 
afternoon. The witness is excused. 

(Thereupon, at 12 noon, the hearing was recessed, to reconvene at 
1 : 30 p. m. of the same day.) 



5048 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF IVncfelGAN 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(At the hour of 1 : 30 p. m, of Monday, May 3, 1954, the proceedings 
were resinned with Representative Kit Clardy (acting chairman), 
Gordon H. Scherer, and Morgan M. Moulder (appearance noted in 
transcript) being present.) 

Mr. Clardy. The committee will be in order. Are you ready to call 
your next witness, Mr. Counsel? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Sidney W. Graber. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you solemnly swear in the testimony you are about 
to give to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God? 

Mr. Graber. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. Will the counsel please identify himself on the record ? 

Mr. NoRRis. Yes; my name is Harold Norris, National Bank 
Building. 

Mr. Chairman, may I invoke the committee rule with regard to pic- 
tures during the course of testimony ? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes; I think I have given a general instruction, and 
I ask you boys to refrain from taking flashlight pictures during the 
progress of the testimony. 

Before we begin this afternoon, my attention lias been called to 
something that appeared in the press since we started this morning 
that has caused some of the members of the teaching profession and 
the union here to discuss the matter with me, and I think in fairness 
and in justice I should repeat what I have been correctly quoted as 
saying in the paper and emphasizing a little bit more so that there 
will be no misunderstanding in anybody's mind, and there is no fault 
to be found with the newspapers or anyone else. It just is one of those 
things. I want to make it clear that merely because a few witnesses 
in the teaching profession are called who may or may not be members 
of the union to which the teachers belong is to have no significance 
whatsoever. It is not intended in any way to be an attack upon the 
union. It is, in fact, not an attack, and merely because some of the 
witnesses called may belong to the union should not be construed as 
any indication that the committee feels that the union is badly infil- 
trated by Communists or under the control of Communists, because 
that isn't the fact; we do not so believe, and it is rather confusing, of 
course, to the public, to have individuals who are called to in effect 
equate themselves with the union or with the whole teaching profes- 
sion. In other words, some of them seek to draw about them the cloak 
of the union unfairly and to cast aspersions upon the union when they 
should not. I want to make it clear we are not in any way attacking 
that union or any other union because it is our conviction that the 
unions generally are not to be subjected to that attack if the facts in 
the case are correctly and properly understood as we think we do. 

Something that Mr. Tavenner said in making some inquiries has 
been construed by some people to be an expression of an attitude on 
our part. It was not so intended. I didn't so interpret it, but because 
reasonable-minded people do, I wanted to nuxke this statement in 
justice to everyone. 

Now you may proceed, counsel. 



COIvIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5049 

Mr. Tavennek. What is your name, please, sir ? 

TESTIMONY OF SIDNEY W. GEABER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, HAEOLD NOERIS 

Mr. Graber. Sidney Graber. ,*• /^ i » 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. (araber ? 

Mr. Graber. November 1,1921, Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside, in Detroit ? 

Mr. Graber. In Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation or profession ? 

Mr. Graber. I am a teacher of social studies. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the public schools or in a university ? 

Mr. Graber. In the public schools. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged in teachmg ? 

Mr. Graber. I was hired by the board of education of the city of 
Detroit in September of 1947. Since that time I have been employed 
there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your for- 
mal education training has been ? 

Mr. Graber. I am a graduate of the Detroit public school system. 
I entered Wayne University in September of 1939. 1 received a 
bachelor of arts in education in September 1946 and a master of arts 
in education in 1951, both from Wayne University. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat has been your record of employment other 
than that which you have given us ? 

Mr. Graber. From when do you wish me to start ? 

Mr. Tavenner. From when did you get your original training ? 

Mr. Graber. I completed my high school education in January of 
1939 whereupon I entered Wayne University and attended Wayne 
until 1942, at which time I was, for economic reasons, forced to leave 
school and take a job with the Chief of Ordnance, tank automotive 
center, here in Detroit. I worked for this installation until April of 
1944, at which time I was drafted into the Army. I served 19 months 
overseas as a rifleman with the 141st Infantry Regiment, 36th Division. 
Upon my release from the Army in May of 1946 I returned to Wayne 
University, took 1 year of graduate work, which brought me up to 
1947 and my present job. 

Mr. Tavenner. While you were in attendance at Wayne University 
did you affiliate with the youth group of the Communist Party on 
the campus ? 

Mr. Graber. I don't believe that my associations or affiliations are 
any concern of this committee, protected by the first amendment of the 
Constitution which guarantees the right of free speech and free 
assembly. I don't think that I need answer that question. 

Mr. Clardy. The Chair directs you to answer it. 

(At this point Mr. Graber conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mr. Graber. I am going to, in addition to the reason already given 
to this committee, respectfully decline to answer that question for 
the following legal and constitutional reasons : I refuse to answer this 
question by both the due process clause of the fifth amendment and the 
sixth amendment to the Federal Constitution and also the fifth amend- 

48861— 54— pt. 1 5 



5050 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

ment privilege of the Constitution and the fact that a person is pre- 
sumed innocent until proven guilty. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to find out, Mr. Graber, all the infor- 
mation you have, if any, regarding a convention of the Communist 
Party, a Michigan State Convention of the Communist Party held in 
January 1948 at Yemans Hall. Were you present on that occasion 
at that convention ? 

Mr. Graber. I have already indicated to this committee that I will 
not at any time discuss my afeliations or my associations at any time 
under the reasons that I have already stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Bereniece Baldwin ? 

Mr. Gr^vber. I do not care to discuss any individual with this com- 
mittee. 

Mr. Clardy. The Chair directs that you answer that last question. 

(At this point Mr. Graber conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mr. Graber. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of the 
fifth amendment privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time receive a communication from 
her addressed to you in any official capacity of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Graber. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of the 
fifth amendment privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is informed that there was held on 
March 27, 1949, at 2705 Joy Road in Detroit, a State conference of the 
Communist Party. Did you attend it ? 

Mr. Graber. Would you repeat that question, please ? 

Mr. Clardy. Eead it, Miss Reporter. 

(The question was read by the reporter as follows :) 

The committee is informed that there was held on March 27, 1949, at 2705 Joy 
Road in Detroit, a State conference of the Communist Party. Did you attend it? 

Mr. Graber. Due to the conditions under which I testify, I am in- 
voking the fifth amendment privilege. 

Mr. ScHERER. Isn't it a fact that you did attend it. Witness ? 

Mr. Graber. I have already given my answer, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that the witness be directed to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Clardy. The witness is so directed. 

Mr. Graber. I am not clear as to what question is being asked of 
me. 

Mr. ScHERER. I said, isn't it a matter of fact that you did attend 
the conference of the Communist Party to which Mr. Tavenner re- 
ferred ? Isn't it a fact that you did ? 

(At this point Mr. Graber conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mr. Graber. I rely on the fifth amendment privilege and note that 
no inference may be drawn from the fact that I invoke that privilege. 

Mr. Scherer. I draw an inference from it. 

Mr. Graber. I am not at all concerned with what you may draw. I 
would like to state, however, that this committee lives on inferences. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is advised that a State organiza- 
tional conference of the Communist Party for the State of Michigan 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5051 

was held on April 21 and 22, 1950, at 2705 Joy Koad. Do you know 
anythinfT about the holding of such a conference ? 

Mr. Graber. I believe that I have already indicated to the coun- 
sel and to the committee that I was not going to discuss any associa- 
tions that I might have had in the past. Unless I am being accused 
of anything, I certainly think that this whole proceeding is improper. 

Mr. Clardt. Witness, you will be asked questions as the committee 
and its counsel deem proper. 

Mr. Graber. I would say there are certain inferences that are being 
drawn which are wholly 

Mr. Clardy. Wait until I finish. 

Mr. Graber. Improper. 

Mr. Clardt. Be quiet, please, until I have concluded. You may be 
impertinent if you wish, sir, but you do it at your own peril. May 
I point out, we will not be directed by you as to what questions we 
may ask. We will ask questions as we think proper, and you will 
refrain from attempting to lecture the committee ; instead devote your 
time— and it will be to better your own interests if you do so— to giving 
us fair, frank, honest answers that any good loyal, American citizen 
should. 

Mr. Graber. I resent the impugning of my loyalty, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. No further statements from you, sir. Will you pro- 
ceed. Counsel, to ask a question. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Yes, sir. 

Did you participate in any manner in the conference that I just 
referred to ? 

Mr. Graber. Because I fear that this committee might involve me 
in an unjustified prosecution, I invoke the fifth amendment privilege. 

(Kepresentative Morgan M. Moulder entered the hearing room at 
this point.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Graber. For the same reasons that I have already indicated, I 
refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party at any time in the past ? 

Mr. Graber. I refuse to answer that question under the fifth amend- 
ment privilege, as previous questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any questions, Mr. Scherer ? 

Mr. Scherer. I have no questions. 

Mr. Clardy. Any questions? 

Mr. Moulder. No questions. 

Mr. Clardy. The witness is excused. Call your next witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Harold Kosen. 

Mr. Field. May I file the same brief with the same result ? 

Mr. Clardy. I have taken care of that. Will you hold up your 
hand ? Do you solemnly swear in the testimony you are about to give 
to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. EosEN. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 



5052 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

TESTIMONY OF HAROLD ROSEN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

G. LESLIE FIELD 

Mr, Rosen. Harold Rosen. 

Mr. Tavenner, When and where were you born, Mr. Rosen ? 

Mr. Rosen. February 15, 1913, in Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Rosen. At 18251 Prairie, Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner, How long have you resided in Detroit ? 

Mr. Rosen. I came to Detroit in the year of 1937. 

Mr. Tavenner, What is your profession or occupation ? 

Mr. Rosen. I have been a teacher with the board of education for 
the last 17 years. At the present moment I am on sabbatical leave. 
I took my sabbatical leave on July 1, 1953. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you keep your voice a little higher, Witness ? It 
is very difficult to hear. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long has that sabbatical leave been in progress ? 

Mr. Rosen. As far as myself is concerned, sir ? 

Mr. Tavennner. Yes. 

Mr. Rosen. I took my sabbatical leave as of July 1, 1953. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you spend that period of time? 

Mr. Rosen. Which period of time are you 

Mr. Tavenner. While on leave? 

Mr. Rosen. I have been engaged on a project of musical education. 
I spent the time in the city of Detroit and doing some investigating 
work on a certain musical project. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your edu- 
cational training has been; that is, your formal educational training? 

Mr. Rosen. I was graduated from the grade schools and high school 
in Brooklyn. I received my bachelor of science at City College of 
New York, and I received a master's degree from Teachers College, 
Columbia. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you complete your work at Columbia ? 

Mr. Rosen. In August of 1934 I received my master's degree. 

Mr, Tavenner, Have you at any time been solicited to engage in 
teaching of any character other than that which you have described ? 

Mr. Rosen. You mean outside of teaching music ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Outside of teaching in connection with your present 
employment ? 

Mr. Rosen. By whom? 

Mr. Tavenner. My question is, Have you ever been solicited to 
teach in any other capacity or by any other employer other than your 
present employer and those with whom you may have been associated 
during your sabbatical leave ? 

Mr. Rosen. I haven't done any teaching during my sabbatical leave, 
sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand. Do you understand my question? 

Mr. Rosen. I don't understand your question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been solicited at any time in the past to 
teach 

Mr. Rosen. By "the past," what period are you referring to? 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to today, that is what I mean by "past." Have 
you at any time prior to today been solicited to teach by anyone other 
than in your present position, your present employment? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5053 

(At this point Mr. Rosen conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Rosen. To the best of my knowledge I have not been solicited 
to teach anything other than the field I have been practicing in, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not speaking of the field. I am speaking of 
whether or not you have been solicited to teach by any other person or 
organization other than the one by which you are now employed. 

(At this point Mr. Rosen conferred with Mr. Field. ) 

Mr. Rosen. Do you mean teach in some other institution ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

(At this point Mr. Rosen conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Rosen. I don't think I have, sir. 

(At this point Mr. Rosen conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Rosen. I might add this, sir, as far as teaching, I did do some 
other teaching other than the board of education relative to work in 
my field. Was that what you were interested in ? I can go back to a 
period of time. Wliether I can point that out to you 

Mr. Tavenner. Suppose you tell us about that. 

Mr. Rosen. After I was graduated, received my master's degree, I 
was unemployed, and then got a job working on the Works Progress 
Administration in the city of New York, and I worked as a teacher 
on the Federal music project with the Works Progress Administration 
for a period of about a few years, I should say, until the spring of 

Mr. Tavenner. That brought you up to the time when you came 
to Detroit? 

Mr. Rosen. That is correct ; after that period I came to Detroit in 
August of 1937. I applied for a position of teaching with the board 
of education. I was accepted, and I began to teach then in Septem- 
ber of 1937. 

Mr. Tavenner. At any time since you began your teaching career 
in Detroit in 1937 have you had any request from the Michigan Labor 
School to teach ? 

(At this point Mr. Rosen conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Rosen. Inasmuch as that question asks for a disclosure of my 
private life and my associations, I will decline to answer this or simi- 
lar questions. I do so on the ground that the first amendment to the 
Constitution expressly prohibts Congress from legislating with re- 
spect to free speech, press, and assembly. It follows that if Congi-ess 
cannot legislate to abridge these rights, it cannot investigate in viola- 
tion of these rights. 

I also decline to answer this or similar questions on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

(Representative Morgan M. Moulder left the hearing room at this 
point. ) 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, are you acquainted with or do you have any 
knowledge about the Michigan Labor School mentioned in Mr. Tav- 
enner's last question ? 

(At this point Mr. Rosen conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Clardy. I am not asking you to tell me what the knowledge is ; 
I am merely asking you, do you have any knowledge whatsoever 
xibout it. 

Mr. Rosen. I decline to answer that question on the previous 
grounds stated. 



5054 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. ScHERER. You haven't declined to tell us about your activity^ 
with the WPA educational project in New York. 

(At this point Mr. Kosen conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Rosen. That was an identifying question, sir. I was trying to 
identify myself. 

Mr. Clardy. I am identifying the Michigan Labor School and 
merely asking you if you have any knowledge about it whatsoever. 
I will tell you why I am asking you. You have declined to answer 
the previous question, and I am endeavoring to discover whether 
there was any solid basis for invoking the fifth amendment or whether 
it has been done on a frivolous ground. Obviously if you have 
no knowledge about the school, then your invocation of the fifth 
amendment is not on solid ground. If you do have that knowledge 
and so admit now, it is conceivable that you might have some ground 
for refusing to answer the previous question. 

(At this point Mr. Rosen conferred w^th Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Clardy. Now answer mine, please. 

Mr. Rosen. I stand on my previous statement and decline to an- 
swer. 

Mr. Clardy. The chair then directs you to answer the question 
he propounded to you a moment ago. 

(At this point Mr. Rosen conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Rosen. Same answer, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER, Did you ever teach at the Michigan Labor School ? 

Mr. Rosen. Same answer, sir, to the same question. 

Mr. Clardy. It isn't an answer; it ^s a declination to answer. 
That is what you mean, I take it? 

Mr, Rosen. That is correct. 

Mr. Clardy. On the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Rosen. That is correct. 

Mr. Clardy. Which amounts primarily to the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Rosen. That is correct. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you participated in any State or national 
convention of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Counsel, may I interrupt? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. Before we proceed any further, I think ,it should be 
stated for the record what the Michigan Labor School is. Do you 
have such information ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The information is that it is a school operated by 
the Communist Party or was. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the question ? 

Mr. Rosen. No, I don't sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Read it. Miss Reporter. 

(The question was read by the reporter as follows :) 

Have you participated in any State or national convention of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Rosen. I decline to answer this question on the previously 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become one of the vice presidents of the 
Communist Political Association in 1945? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5055 

Mr. Rosen. I decline to answer this question on similar grounds, 
and also on the grounds of the motion to squash my subpena. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 
Mr. EosEN. I decline to answer that question on previously stated 

grounds. 

Mr. ScHERER. If you were not a member of the Communist Party, 
would you so state ? 

Mr. Rosen. I decline to answer that question on previously stated 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any 
time before coming to Detroit in 1937 ? 

Mr. Rosen. I decline to answer that question on previously stated 
grounds. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party 
.at any time since 1937 ? 

Mr. Rosen. Same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Any questions, Mr. Scherer ? 

Mr. Scherer. No ; I have no questions. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, do you know anything about an organiza- 
tion which was called the Civil Rights Federation ? 

Mr. Rosen. Will you please state your question again, Mr. Chair- 
man? 

Mr. Clardy. Read it. Miss Reporter. 

(The question was read by the reporter, as follows:) 

Witness, do you know anything about an organization whicti was called the 
Civil Rights Federation? 

Mr, Rosen. I should like to state that any question concerning my 
associations, my ideas, my beliefs, is not a proper question that this 
committee has the right to ask, and I decline to answer that question 
on previously stated gi'ounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Is it not a fact that that organization held meetings 
in your home at one time ? 

Mr. Rosen. I decline to answer that question on previously stated 
grounds, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you acquainted with an organization known as 
the Civil Rights Congress ? 

Mr. Rosen. Same reasons, same answer, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. That organization succeeded the one I first mentioned, 
did it not ? 

Mr. Rosen. Same reasons, same answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Has that organization not held its meetings, at least 
some of them, in your residence ? 

Mr. Rosen. I decline to answer that question on previously stated 
grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. You are acquainted with Carl Winter ? 

Mr. Rosen. Any association I have, sir, any people I may know, is 
not a proper question for this committee to ask, and I decline to answer 
that question on previously stated grounds. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, Witness, I direct that you answer that question, 
because you are not entitled to raise the fifth amendment when it is 
merely a question of whether you know some other individual. 



5056 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

(At this point Mr. Rosen conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Rosen. I stand on the previously stated answer, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. You are again refusing to answer then on the ground 
stated ? 

Mr. Rosen. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Isn't it the fact that some years ago you attended a 
testimonial dinner for Carl Winter? 

Mr. Rosen. Same answer, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. And do you recall having traveled to Lansing last 
year as one of a delegation going there on behalf of the Rosenbergs? 

(At this point Mr. Rosen conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Rosen. Same answer, same reason, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. Wasn't that trip to Lansing directed by the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Rosen. Same reason, same answer, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you know Sidney Graber who just testified? 

Mr. Rosen. I decline to answer that question, sir, on similarly 
stated grounds. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Clardy. I direct you to answer that question. 

Mr. Rosen. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Scheher. Do you know any of the other witnesses who ap- 
peared on the stand this morning ? 

Mr. Rosen. I decline to answer that question on similar stated 
grounds, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever attended any Communist meetings in 
company with any of those who have thus far appeared before this 
committee today ? 

Mr. Rosen. Same answer, same reason, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. Isn't it a fact that you have attended such meetings? 

(At this point Mr. Rosen conferred with Mr. Field.) 

Mr. Rosen. Same reason, same answer, sir. 

(Representative Morgan M. Moulder returned to the hearing room 
at this point.) 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any further questions ? 

Mr. Scherer. No. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any questions, Mr. Moulder? 

Mr. Moulder. No questions. 

Mr. Clardy. Counsel, do you have anything further? 

Mr. Ta"\t:nner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness excused. Call your next witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Thomas Ellis Bryant. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you hold up your right hand. Do you solemnly 
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truih, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr, Bryant. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. I see you have an attorney. Will you identify your- 
self, Counsel? 

Mr. Probe. My name is Bernard Probe, with office in the National 
Bank Building, Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please sir? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5057 

TESTIMONY OF TOM ELLIS BKYANT, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL. BERNARD PROBE 

Mr. Bkyant. Tom Bryant. 

Mr. Tavennbr. Do you have a middle name ? 

Mr. Bryant. Tom Ellis Bryant. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Bryant ? 

Mr. Bryant. I was born in Pittsburgh, Pa., on December 10, 1913. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Bryant. In Garden City, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Garden City, Mich.? 

Mr. Bryant. Approximately 4 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your profession or occupation ? 

Mr. Bryant. I am a transportation man, a traffic man. 

Mr. Clardy. In that connection your last employment was here in 
Detroit with the association? 

Mr. Bryant. I worked for the Motor Carrier Central Freight As- 
sociation for about — well, over 7 years, and I was discharged in Jan- 
uary of this year after I had advised my employer that I had received 
a subpena. I thought it was the ethical thing to do. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, it was after you had further advised them that 
under no circumstance would you cooperate with the committee and 
testify; is that not the fact? 

Mr. Bryant. I told them that I would not become an informer, yes, 
sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, you told them that you would not appear before 
us and answer any questions that we might propound to you. 

Mr. Bryant. I told them that I would not be an informer, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. They told you if you would appear before the comniit- 
^ ee and would answer its questions tmthf ully and fairly, they would 
retain you on the payroll, didn't they? 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. I have already given my answer to that, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Answer my last question. Now I direct you to do so. 

(At this point ]SIr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. Will you repeat the question, sir? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, 1 will put it in a little different language. I say, 
Isn't it a fact that at the last conference 3^ou had with your employers 
that they told you that if you would cooperate with this committee and 
answer questions that were put to you fairly, frankly, and honestly, 
that you could come back to work the next morning and would be re- 
rained on the payroll ; otherwise you need not report? 

Mr. Bryant. 'Well, I had advised them that it was my opinion that 
the activities of this particular committee were very much like that of 
the McCarthy committee, and I thought they were undemocratic, and 
lhai.,J^ could not in any way cooperate or assist or encourage methods 
i)f inquisition. 

Mr. Clardy. My question had to do with what they stated to you, so 
you will not leave an unfair inference. 

Mr. Bryant. They disagreed with that position. 

Mr. Clardy. They stated in substance to you what was embodied in 
my question, didn't they ? 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

48861— 54— pt. 1 6 



5058 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Brtant. I advised my employers that I- 



Mr. Clardy. I am not asking yon about what you advised them. 
I am merely asking what they told you. 

Mr. Bryant. I advised them I was going to rely strictly on my legal 
rights, and when I advised them of that position, they disagreed with 
me. 

Mr. Clardy. They stated in substance what I have told you, didn't 
they ^ 

Mr. Bryant. That is my understanding as I have given it to you, 
sir. If there are other inferences you wish to draw 

Mr. Clardy. I am not drawing any inference. I am asking it as 
a matter of fact  

Mr. Bryant. I have given you the situation to the best of my ability 
and as I saw it. 

Mr. Clardy. I must differ with you because you certainly must have 
recollection of the conferences, the several conferences, tliat yon had. 
I have been fully advised on it, Witness, because as you know, I have 
been interested before I went to Congress in the transportation field, 
and I have acquaintance with all of the people who employ you, and 
I know the full details of what took place because I was advised, and 
I am trying to do you a service in asking you if they did not say that 
you had great ability in that field and that they would be pleased to 
keep you on the payroll subject only to your being a good American 
citizen and cooperating with this committee and answering its ques- 
tions. 

Is that not the substance of what they told you ? 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. Mr. Clardy, I feel that I am just as good an American 
as you or anybody else. I think I am a very good American. 

Mr. Clardy. We haven't made any charge otherwise. We are giv- 
ing you an opportunity to demonstrate that you are, though. 

Mr. Bryant. I advised my employer that I was going to rely on 
my legal rights, on the freedoms and liberties spelled out in the Bill 
of Rights. I am not a trained man. I can't bandy about these free- 
doms and liberties, but they are there. Democracy is a way of life 
with me. I told them I was going to stand on the basis of those legal 
rights and the Bill of Rights as I felt them. 

Mr. Clardy. You are trying apparently to leave an inference that 
you were improperly discharged, and I think you are doing your 
employeis an injustice. I want to make it perfectly plain that I don't 
so regard it, and I want you to understand that in my judgment you 
were the sole judge of whether you should remain on a rather lucrative 
job or not and that you chose to sever the connection rather than being 
fired for some improper reason. If you don't care to go into it 
further, all right. 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

INIr. Clardy. Will you proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The counsel is informed 

Mr. Bryant. Just a minute, Mr. Tavenner, if you please. 

Mr. Clardy. You don't care enough to answer my question, so I 
am instructing him to go forward. 

Mr. Bryant. I would like to answer the question in my own way. 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't ask you a question. I made a statement. 
Proceed, Counsel. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5059 

Mr. Bryant. I didn't finish answering the question. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. Bryant. I would like to continue. 

Mr. Clardy. You may not continue. 

Mr. Bryant. Do you wish to withdraw the question ? 

Mr. Clardy. There will be a question propounded to you, and you 
will be given an opportunity to answer. 

Mr. Bryant. Do you wish to withdraw the question ? 

Mr. Clardy. There is no question pending. 

Mr. Ta\\enner. The committee is advised that there was a conven- 
tion  

Mr. Bryant. I am not through answering the question, sir. 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). By the Civil Rights Congress of 
Michigan and July 16, 1951. Will you tell the committee, please, what 
knowledge you have of that convention, if any ? 

Mr. Bryant. Mr. Tavenner, I am sorrj^, but I haven't finished that 
previous question. I was fired because I stood on my constitutional 
rights. 

Mr. Clardy, Proceed witli your question, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Bryant. T didn't get your second question. 

Mr. Clardy. Read it. Miss Reporter. 

(The question was read by the reporter as follows :) 

The committee is advised that there was a convention by the Civil Rights 
Congress of Michigan on June 16, 1951. Will you tell the committee, please, 
what knowledge you have of that convention, if any? 

(At this point IMr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. Well, Mr. Tavenner, I am not going to answ^er any 
questions which pertain to my associations, my religious or political 
beliefs, what I read, what I think, my freedom of speech, and I rely 
on all of the privileges and rights spelled out for myself and all the 
people in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, 1 through 10. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Are you acquainted with Bereniece Baldwin? 

Mr. Bryant. I decline to answer that question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of and chairman of the South- 
field Club of the Communist Party of Michigan during the whole or 
part of the years 1945 and 1946 ? 

Mr. Bryant. Mr. Tavenner, haven't I made it clear that I am going 
to decline to answer any questions regarding my associations, my 
political beliefs, my religious beliefs, what I read, freedom of thought, 
and so forth, and have stipulated my grounds for doing so? 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, you may have done so, but the questions 
nevertheless will be propounded as counsel and the committee feel 
necessary. You will be under pain of answering each one separately 
as they are put to you. 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. I decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bryant. I decline to answer the question for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. A'VHien did you first come to the State of Michigan 
to make your home here ? 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 



5060 COMlSrUNIST activities in the state of MICHIGAN 

Mr. Bryant. Sir, is that question relevant to the proceedings of this 
committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir ; it is. 

Mr. Bryant. Then I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please — Mr. Chairman, 
I think that is a question he should be directed to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. I can't hear you. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is my suggestion he be directed to answer the 
question as to when he first came to the State of Michigan to make his 
residence here. 

Mr. Clardy. I quite agree. The witness is so directed. 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. I decline on the previous grounds stated. 

Mr. Scherer. How could that possibly incriminate j^ou? 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. Well, I don't know just in what manner in which it 
may or may not be pertinent, sir. You are in here asking the questions, 
and you have told me that it is going to be relevant to the proceedings 
of this committee. You have told me so. Now, in what way or what 
manner, I don't know. 

Mr. Clardy. Then you do not know the basis upon whicli you have 
invoked the fifth amendment if I understand what you are saying. 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. I am invoking the privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment, gentlemen, and you may draw any inferences you may see fit. 

Mr. Clardy. We are not drawing any inferences ; we are merely al- 
lowing you to either answer or not as you see fit. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your edu- 
cational training has been, what is your formal educational training ? 

Mr. Bryant. I am a gradute of the public schools of Cleveland, 
Ohio. I attended Western Reserve University, the downtown college, 
Cleveland College, in 1931 and 1932. Other than that I have had cor- 
respondence courses such as LaSalle Traffic Management. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a resident of Cleveland for any period 
of time after the completion of your work there, your scholastic work? 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. Yes, as I indicated previously, my family and I moved 
to Detroit some 10 years ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. That would be about 1944 2 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed at the time that you moved 
to Michigan ? 

Mr. Bryant. I was transferred by the Fisher Body Division of Gen- 
eral Motors Corp. from Cleveland, Ohio, to Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you have been employed— — 

Mr. Bryant. I was working in the plant there, and I was transferred 
to the home office of Fisher Body here in Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere you have been employed since that time ? 

Mr. Bryant. No, no. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was the Fisher Body? 

Mr. Bryant. Fisher Body. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did vou remain employed bv the Fisher 
Body? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 506 1 

Mr. Brtaxt. Approximately 4 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. That would bring you up to about 1948. 

Mr. Bryant. Well, as Mr. Clardy previously indicated, I spent some- 
what over 7 years with the Motor Carriers Central Freight Association. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardt. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. Isn't it a fact, Mr. Bryant, that in the year 1947 you 
were issued a Communist Party registration card for the year 1948 
numbered 71942 ? 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. Well, Mr. Chairman, I decline to answer that question 
on the grounds that I previously indicated. I thought I made it clear 
that I do not believe in the methods of inquisition into political beliefs, 
association of 

Mr. Scherer. The Communist Party is not a political party. It is a 
criminal conspiracy. 

Mr. Bryant. May I finish ? 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. And I don't think it is either proper or in true Ameri- 
can tradition, true American style and fairness, to make inferences and 
try to embarrass people. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you concluded ? 

Mr. Bryant. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, witness, you were asked the question that would 
have enabled you to have told all the world that you were not at the 
date indicated a member of the Commimist conspiracy. I don't want 
you going forth from this hearing room today and saying that you 
were denied a full, free, fair opportmiity to deny such connections. 
That has been done all too frequently. You have been asked a fair 
question that if you could give a truthful answer when you say you 
did not hold such card to have utterly denied and prevented any 
implication. 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Clardy. You do not choose to do so ? 

Mr. Bryant. Mr. Clardy, I don't think it is necessary for me to get 
down on my knees and say that I am not a member of this organization 
or I am a member of that organization, not in the American 

Mr. Scherer. We are only asking you now about one organization. 

Mr. Bryant. You know, gentlemen, that you have no business pry- 
ing into anybody's personal associations. 

Mr. Clardy. Then you object to the Congress of the United State? 
investigating the Communist conspiracy that threatens death to all 
freedom that we have. 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Clardy. If that is your position, that is so. If you persist in 
it, you cannot blame us if we draw the conclusion that you are lining 
up on the other side, the wrong side. 

Mr. Bryant. That was not my answer ; that was not my intention. 

Mr. Clardy. If you will answer the question, sir, you can destroy 
and prevent any improper inference. At any rate you have, as I 
understand it, refused to answer and invoke the fifth amendment, is 
that correct ? 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. I didn't quite put it that way, gentlemen, but 



5062 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Clardy. Are you invoking the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Bryant. I decline for tlie reasons previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. I am asking you pointblank in this particular instance, 
are you declining on the basis of the fifth amendment, whether you 
have any other grounds or not because that is the only one we recog- 
nize, and I want to be sure that you protect yourself. 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. I am declining on the basis of all my rights, including 
my privileges under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Thank you. Now will you proceed, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bryant. I decline for the previous reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Bryant. I decline for the previous reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Any questions, Mr. Scherer ? 

Mr. Scherer. I have no questions. 

Mr. Clardy. Any questions, Mr. Moulder? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. Are you or have you ever served in any branch 
of the armed services? 

Mr. Bryant. No, I have not. 

Mr. Moulder. Are you a member of any church ? 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. Mr. Moulder, I thought I made that clear, too, when 
I indicated that I did not believe that my personal associations, my 
political, or religious beliefs are involved at all. 

Mr. Moulder. Well, referring to your political affiliation, are you 
a member of any political party or do you consider yourself to be afhili- 
ated with any political party ? 

Mr. Bryant. I decline to answer that question for the reasons previ- 
ously given. 

Mr. Moulder. Well, do you believe in or are you a member of any 
organization w^hich believes in the overthrow and destruction of our 
present form of government by force and violence ? 

Mr. Bryant. I believe, sir, in our Constitution. I uphold the Con- 
stitution and the Bill of Rights, and I believe I am protecting the 
Constitution and the Bill of Rights by my behavior here today, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. You did not answer the question. Now, will you read 
the question. Miss Reporter, so I may direct him to answer. 

The question was read by the reporter as follows : 

Well, do you believe in or are you a membor of any organization which be- 
lieves in the overthrow and destruction of our present form of government by 
force and violence? 

Mr. Clardy. You are directed to answer that question. 

(At this point Mr. Bryant conferred with Mr. Probe.) 

Mr. Bryant. I decline to answer the question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. MouiJ>ER. Just one more question. A moment ago you declined 
to answer questions of whether or not you are now or ever have been 
a member of the Communist Party. I want to ask you this question : 
Are you a member of the Ku Klux Klan? 

Mr. Bryant. I decline to answer that question for the same reason. 

Mr. Moulder. That is all. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5063 

Mr. Clardt. Any further questions, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. George Miller, will you come forward, please. 

Mr. Clardy. Hold up your hand. Do you solemnly swear in the 
testimony you are about to give to tell the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Miller. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. I see you are accompanied by counsel. Will counsel 
identify himself for the record. 

Mr. Anbender. I am Larry H. Anbender. I read your regulations 
and fully intend to abide by them. I have one point, however, that 
I think 

Mr. Clardy. If you have a motion, you may put it in writing to us. 

Mr. Anbender. It isn't a motion, it is that the subpena which was 
served is signed by Harold Velde, dated October 21, 1954, which is 
virtually an impossibility; therefore, we appear here ynder protest 
and raise the question of the validity of the subpena. So if you will 
rule that this is invalid, we will be glad to walk out. I offer this to 
your 

Mr. Clardy. Your document may be filed with us, and we will pro- 
ceed. 

Mr. Anbender. Second, Your Honor 

Mr. Clardy. I shall not entertain any further argument. You and 
I may have a discussion of! the record, but you have read the rules, 
and you know I cannot violate them. I am under injunction of the 
whole committee and I cannot do so. 

Mr. Anbender. We then answer these questions under protest as to 
validity. 

Mr. Clardy. The witness may so state if he wishes, and you may 
consult with him as to language if you haven't already done so. 

(At this point Mr, Miller conferred with Mr. Anbender.) 

Mr. Clardy. Your first name is George? 



-to^ 



TESTIMONY OF GEORGE MILLER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

LARRY H. ANBENDER 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name ? 

Mr. Miller. Before I testify I would like to say I am testifying 
under protest because of what my counsel has already said plus the 
fact the subpena issued to me last October — there have l^een a number 
of extensions on it, and my counsel advises me that he feels that the 
life of the subpena has been used up already. In other words, the 
thing has been held over my head for over 6 months, and the question 
arises how long can you hold a subpena over someone's head. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, I do want to apologize, although no apology 
is really called for. When we attempted to go forward last fall, as 
you know, the Federal court had before it the trial of the six Com- 
munists who have since been convicted. Out of consultations with 
the judge and with the attorney for the Government I decided that it 
would be possibly advisable to postpone the liearings, and I did so in 
the liope they would be over in a hurry, and then nature took care 
of me and sent me to the hospital for a period of months, and I am 
even now in the middle of a little recuperation. I hope that that 



5064 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

explanation will satisfy yon and the fact that we were not deliberately 
trying to hold a sword of Damocles over your head these months. We 
wonld have liked to have had them out of the way last fall, but fate 
decreed otherwise. Will you proceed, counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Miller ? 

Mr. Miller. I would be glad to give this information to the com- 
mittee in private for fear that if I do, it Avill here be used as a means 
of identification. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, do you mean that in all seriousness you are 
objecting on some ground to telling us the date of your birth? You 
are obviously born. I se^ you sitting here. All we want is the date. 

Mr. Miller. Well, if I have the assurance by the committee that 
it will not be used as a link in the chain for later identifying some 
George Miller, I will be glad to tell you when I was born and where. 

Mr. Clardy. George who? 

Mr. Miller. INIiller. 

Mr. Clardy. I thought you said something else. 

Mr. Miller. No, Miller. 

Mr. Clardy. The committee isn't given to making deals with any- 
body anytime for any purpose, and I direct you now to answer that 
question. 

(At this point Mr. Miller conferred with Mr. Anbender.) 

Mr. MiLi^ER. Would you repeat the question, please? 

Mr. Clardy. Read the question. Miss Reporter. 

(The question was read by the reporter as follows: "AVhen and 
where were you born, Mr. Miller?") 

Mr. Miller. I was born in Detroit, Mich., October 24, 1922. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. What is your profession or occupation? 

(At this point Mr. Miller conferred with Mr. Anbender.) 

Mr. Scpierer. May I call to the attention of counsel that it is coun- 
sel's prerogative to discuss with his client his constitutional rights. 
I don't know why we need this extended conversation for the witness 
to answer what his occupation is. 

Mr. Ci^\rdy. No; I think I should, for the benefit of the counsel 
here and the others who will subsequently appear, advise you that 
while counsel may advise the witness on his constitutional rights, 
he obviously has no right either here or in court, as you know, to 
answer the question for the witness. He may only advise him on 
his constitutional rights. I think I need not tell you that in a Federal 
court, such as may hold forth in this room, if counsel attempted to 
tell a witness how to answer a question he would be cited for contempt 
so quick it would make his head swim. I am going to assume you 
have not been doing anj^hing improper, but I suggest that it would 
be much better if he would be allowed to answer questions that are 
as simple as that when a constitutional question can hardly be 
involved. 

Mr. AxBERDER. That is correct, Mr. Congressman, except — 

Mr. Clardy. I am not reflecting on you at all, sir. I don't want it 
to appear that I am, but I am saying that generally. 

Mr. Anbexder. I understand. I would like to make this observa- 
tion, however, if I may. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes; I will permit that. 

Ml-. Anbender. I have had difficulty trying to reconcile the cases 
and what the Supreme Court has held to be a sensitive area and 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5065 

what tlie Supreme Court has held not to be. I have advised the 
client that he can refuse to answer questions, those questions which 
may tend to incriminate him. "Wlien he gets to the bridge is up to 
him to decide, but once he crosses the bridge, the Court has held in 
a number of cases that unconsciously a witness has found that he has 
lost his privilege of waiver. 

Mr. Clardy. We shall not try to entrap the witness. 

Mr. Anbender. Thank you very much, Mr. Clardy. 

Mr. Moulder. I take the position and I want the record to show, 
the witness is entitled to consult with his counsel anj'- time he wishes, 

Mr. Anbender. Thank you. 

Mr. Clardy. So long as the counsel, however, does not put the 
ansAver in his mouth. 

Mr. Mouldp:r. Because you are at enough disadvantage as it is. 

Mr. Anbender. How true. May I, please, ask the Chair to have the 
re))orter read the question? 

Mr. Clardy. It might be well, 

(At this point Mr. Miller conferred with Mr. Anbender,) 

(The question was read by the reporter as follows :) 

What is your profession or occupation? 

Mr. Miller. Is that present or past? 

Mr. Taat:nner. Xow, present. 

Mr. Miller. Right now ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Miller. What am I doing for a living right now? 

Mr. Tavenner. Not what you are doing today, but what is your 
present occupation? 

Mr. Miller. Painter. 

Mr. Tavenner. What other occupation have you had? 

Mr. Miller. I was a teacher. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where, in Detroit ? 

Mr. Miller. No ; not in Detroit. 

Mr. Clardy. You were employed at Clarkston, Mich., were you not? 

Mr. Miller. For a little better than 2 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. During what period of time ? 

Mr. Miller. I will answer that question, but I assume that I haven't 
waived my right to invoke the fifth amendment later on. I taught 
school at Clarkston, Mich., from the fall of 1951 to, I believe, it was 
October 1953. 

Mr. Clardy. Speak a little louder, witness. 

Mr. Miller. I taught school at Clarkston, Mich., from the fall of 
1951 to last October. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed prior to 1951 ? 

Mr. MiLi^ER. I will answer that question, too, on the basis that I 
am not waiving my right to invoke the fifth amendment or any other 
amendments that are to protect my rights. I was employed as a school 
teacher in Tucson, Ariz. 

Mr. Tavenner. What period of time was it that you taught school 
in Tucson, Ariz.? 

Mr. Miller. I will answer that question, too, but I would like to 
make it clear that I will continue to answer these questions as long 
as I am sure that I haven't waived my right of the fifth ameudment 



5066 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

and also tliat I haven't crossed the bridge that the counsel has told me 
about. The question is when did I teach in Arizona, is that correct? 

]Mr. Tavennee. Over what period of time did you teach and when 'i 

Mr. Miller. That was January 1948 through May 1051. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was your employment prior to January 1948? 

Mr. Miller. I believe that I was a student prior to that. 

Mv. Tavexner. Will you tell the committee what your educational 
training was in brief; that is, your formal education? 

]Mr. Miller. I will answer that as long as this is not used later on as 
identification of some George Miller that you may have discussed here. 
You mean public school as well as college ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not concerned with the public school. 

Mr. Miller. All right. My university training was taken at the 
University of Arizona. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you completed your training there during 
what year? 

Mr. Miller. I started in 1940, went away in the service in 1943 
and came back in 1946 and finished my B. A. in 1947 and my master's 
in 1952. 

Mr. Moulder. When did you say you were in service ? 

Mr. Miller. From June 1943 through November 1945. 

]Mr. Moulder. In what branch of the service ? 

Mr. Miller. United States Marine Corps, infantry, overseas 23 
months out of 29, wounded in battle, received the Purple Pleart. 

Mr. Moulder. Did you say the Army ? 

Mr. Miller. Marine Corps. There is a diiference. 

Mr. Moulder. Served in what area ? 

Mr. Miller. Pacific, Second Marine Division, Browning automatic 
rifleman. 

]Mr. Moulder. Wounded in service ? 

Mr. Miller. Yes ; received the Purple Heart. 

Mr. Moulder. When were you discharged ? 

Mr. Miller. In November of 1945 at Great Lakes. 

Mr. Moulder. Are you married ? 

Mr. Miller. Yes. 

Mr. Moulder. Children ? 

Mr. Miller. Two. 

Mr. Tavenner. You suggested several times during your testimony 
the possibility of confusion with some other George Miller. What 
did you have in mind ? 

(At this point Mr. Miller conferred with INIr. Anbender.) 

Mr. Miller. Well, this question of identification, that was what I 
was speaking about. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, let us have your street address so there will 
be no confusion about the matter of identity. 

(At this point Mr. Miller conferred with Mr. Anbender.) 

Mr. Miller. I would be glad to give my street address in private, 
for fear of economic reprisals. In other words, I am not trying to 
keep that information from you, but I feel if I give it here it will 
result in economic reprisals as well as possibly others to me and my 
family. 

Mr. Anbender. Mr. Tavenner, he will write it and hand it to you, 
his name and full address, but 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5067 

]Mr. Clardy. Pardon me, counsel. Witness, do I understand that 
on one hand you are tellings us you are apprehensive that some George 
Miller may be named in public and confused with yoi; and yet you 
do not want the public to know your address so that the other George 
Miller, if such should be identiiied, may state a different address and 
prevent that confusion? Obviously if we have a deep, dark secret 
here as to where you live, the public is bound to be confused if what 
you are talking about should come about. I think I shall direct you 
to answer that question. 

(At this point Mr. Miller conferred with Mr. Anbender.) 

Mr. Miller. Because of what has happened in the past. I ask the 
committee to be able to give this address on a sheet of paper and 
hand it to you. However, if you demand that I give you this ad- 
dress, under contempt charges, I have no other alternative than to 
give it to you. 

Mr. Clardy. I have directed you to answer, so please do so. 

Mr. Miller. 2710 Florence Drive, Tucson, Ariz. 

Mr. Clardy. How long have you resided there ? 

Mr. Miller. The last time? 

Mr. Clardy, Continuously since the last time you moved there. 

Mr. Miller. Well, I moved there last November. 

Mr. Clardy. I see. That was shortly after your resignation at 
Clarkston; is that correct? 

Mr. Miller. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. TA\'EN]srER. While you were living in Arizona in 1948, did you 
engage in any work, the purpose of which was to raise funds for the 
Dai]y People's World? 

(At this point Mr. Miller conferred with Mr. Anbender.) 

Mr. Miller. I decline to answer that question based on the first, 
amendment, the fifth amendment, and any other amendments or provi- 
sions of the Constitution that afford me protection. 

Mr. Tavexner. Do you know that the part that the Communist 
newspaper organ plays in the Communist Party is a very important 
one? 

Mr. Miller. I refuse to answer that question based on the first or 
fifth amendment or any other amendments or provisions of the Con- 
stitution that afford me protection. 

Mr. Moulder. Are you asking him his opinion ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir; his knowledge. You are unwilling to give 
the committee any information within your knowledge regarding the 
raising of funds for the Daily People's World? 

Mr. Miller. I give the same answer as before, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. You are declining to answer on the grounds stated ? 

Mr. Miller. Of the first and fifth amendment or any other provi- 
sions or amendments of th.e Constitution which afford me protection. 

Mr. Ta\T5nner. At tlie time you were holding your position as a 
teacher in the State of Michigan, were you affiliated in any way with 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Miller. I refuse to answer that question on the same basis as 
the others, first and fifth amendment and any other amendments or 
provisions of the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you not advise your superintendent that you 
had been a member of the Communist Party ? 



5068 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Miller. I refuse to answer that question, sir. on the basis of 
the first and fifth amendments and any other amendments or provi- 
sions of the Constitution that afford me protection. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Miller. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the same basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, INlr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Any questions, Mr. Scherer ? 

Mr. Scherer. No. 

Mr. Clardt. Mr. Moulder, do you have any questions? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes; not a question, I want to make a comment. I 
regret that you don't see fit to give a more direct reply to questions 
that have been propounded to you by Mr. Tavenner, but also I firmly 
believe that any witness who comes before the committee, even though 
represented by counsel who under the rules of the committee is not 
permitted to ask you questions which might reflect favorably on you 
after interrogation which has an unfavorable reflection upon you, 
therefore I want to pursue further questions as to your service for your 
country in the Marine Corps. Do you wish to tell how you were 
wounded and of your decorations and the extent of your service and 
as to whether or not you received an honorable discharge and those 
things which would reflect favorably to you ? 

Mr. Miller. I prefer not to, if you don't mind. If you demand it 
of me, I will do it. I mean, it is an open book. There is nothing 
hidden about it. 

Mr. Moulder. All right. 

Mr. Clardt. Mr. Miller, one aspect of this disturbs me because of 
the information that we have. I understand that you told the super- 
intendent at Clarkston that, while at one time you had been a mem- 
ber of the party, you were not such at that time. Now, in justice to 
yourself, if that is the fact, can you not see that a statement of that 
kind now would be extremely helpful to you, and will you not tell 
me if that is not the fact ? 

Mr. Miller. Mr. Clardy, I refuse to answer that question on the 
basis of the first and fifth amendment and any other amendments or 
, provisions of the Constitution which afford me protection. 

Mr. Clardt. Well, will you deny that the conversation I described 
took place ? 

Mr. Miller. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the basis I have 
already given. 

Mr. Clardt. There is something disturbing on the other side of 
the ledger that I want to call to your attention. You were teaching 
at a school with the name of the Amphitheater School? 

Mr. Miller. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Clardt. That is in Tucson, Ariz. ; is that right ? 

Mr. Miller. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardt. And before you came to Clarkston we understand that 
you were teaching fourth-graders, among others? 

Mr. Miller. Your information, sir, is very incorrect. 

Mr. Clardt. All right; then what grade were you teaching? 

Mr. Miller. Eleventh and twelfth grade. 

Mr. Clardt. My memory isn't as good as I thought it was on that 
score, but at any rate I remembered the school. Did you then, at the 
time you were teaching that grade, whatever it may be at that par- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5069 

ticular school in Tucson, attempt to indoctrinate your pupils with the 
Marxist-Communist doctrine and theory? 

Mr. Miller. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the same basis 
that I refused the others. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any further question, Mr. Counsel? 

Mr. Taa^nner. No further questions, jNIr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Very well. The witness is excused, and we will have a 
5-minute recess, and it will be just 5 minutes, too. 

(Whereupon, at 2 : 45 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 2 :50 p.m.) 

(Whereupon, at 2: 55 p. m., the hearing was reconvened.) 

Mr. Clardy. The committee will be in session. Call your next wit- 
ness, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bolza Baxter, please. 

Mr. Henry. Mv. Chairman 

Mr. Clardy. Your name is not Baxter. 

Mr. Henry. I am Mr. Henry. I represent him. 

Mr. Clardy. Never mind, Counsel. 

Mr. Henry. But Mr. Chairman 

(Note. — At this point, despite repeated attempts by the chairman to silence 
him, Mr. Henry persisted in shouting aloud the contents of a document. The 
chairman tried to maintain order and was finally compelled to have Mr. Henry 
escorted from the room. ) 

Mr. Clardy. Marshal, will you escort this man from the hearing 
room right now. 

Mr. Henry. I am glad to go because I am not going to participate 
in a fraud where I am supposed to represent this man before this com- 
mittee, and if I am going to represent him, I will. 

Mr. Clardy. We will have no more of that. You put on enough 
show in Judge Picard's court, and you are not going to here. 

Mr. Henry. That has nothing to do with this man's rights, and you 
are depriving him of counsel. 

Mv. Clardy. Mr. Baxter, do you desire to go forward 

Mr. Baxter. Mr, Clardy 

Mr. Clardy. Pardon me ; let me finish. Do you desire to go for- 
ward at this time without this counsel, or do you desire time to select 
another counsel ? 

Mr. Baxter. I am submitting to you 

JNIr. Clardy. Never mind ; answer my question. 

Mr. Baxter. I am going to answer your question if you give me a 
minute. 

Mr, Clardy, You will answer it directly first, please. 

Mr, Baxter. I will answer in my way. I have submitted to you 

Mr. Clardy. Answer the question. Do you desire to go forward, 
because if you do not, the matter will be suspended until you obtain 
other counsel. 

Mr. Baxter. I am going to answer the question. I have put in a 
special appearance to raise jurisdictional objections to the procedure 
and the subpena issued me, and I will not proceed until I am permitted 
to have my counsel, and I also insist on my right to state my legal 
objections to the entire proceeding. 

Mr. Clardy. The committee will be in recess. 

(Whereupon, at 2 : 55 p. m., the hearing was recessed.) 



5070 COIMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

("\Miereiipon at 2 : 57 p. m., the hearing was reconvened.) 

Mr. ( 'i.AKDY. The committee will be in session. 

Mr. Baxter. I would like to ask a question. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Counsel, call your next witness. 

Your subpena will be continued, and you will be called at a later 
date. 

Mr. Baxter. All right, thank you, 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. Mrs. Blanche Northwood, please, will you come 
forward ? 

Mr. Clardy. Will you hold up your right hand? Do you solemnly 
swear in the testimony you are about to give to tell the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. I see you are accompanied by counsel. Will counsel 
please identify himself ? 

Mr. NoRRis. My name is Harold Norris, National Bank Building, 
Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please? 

TESTIMONY OF BLANCHE NOKTHWOOD, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 

COUNSEL, HAROLD NORRIS 

Mrs. Northwood. My name is Blanche Northwood. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is your married name, is it not ? 

Mrs. Northwood. This is my proper name. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your maiden name, please ? 

Mrs. Northwood. My name was Wang. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell it, please? 

Mrs. Northwood. W-a-n-g. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were you born, Mrs. Northwood? 

Mrs. Northwood. In Chicago, 111. 

Mr. Tavenner, Where do you now reside ? 

Mrs. Northwood. In Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Detroit? 

Mrs. Northwood. I have lived in Detroit, I believe, since 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time where did you reside? 

Mrs. Northwood. I resided in St. Louis, Mo. 

Mr. Tavenner. For how long a period of time? 

Mrs. Northwood. Approximately 5 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. That would mean from 1942 until approximately 
1947? 

]\Irs. Northwood. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us where you resided prior to 1942? 

Mrs. Northwood. I lived in Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you a resident of Washington, D. C. ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I believe from the spring of 1935 until around 
1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to 1935 where did you reside? 

Mrs. Northwood. I lived in Chicago. 

Mr. Tavenner. You went to Washington from Chicago. 

Mrs. Northwood. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your em- 
ployment was in Washington, D. C, from 1935 to 1942? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5071 

Mrs, NoRTHWOOD. I worked in various governmental agencies. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what capacity? 

Mrs. NoRTHWooD. As a stenographer and secretary. 

Mr. Tavexner. In what governmental agencies were you eniployed? 

Mrs. NoRTHwooD. In the Department of Interior, the Navy Depart- 
ment, and Department of Agriculture. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you break that do^vn as to years, please? 

Mrs. NoRTHwooD. If I can. From 1935 until about the middle of 
1938, I believe, I was in the Department of Interior, and I don't know 
the exact date that I came to the Navy, but it was, I believe, in 1938, 
and I stayed there about 9 months, and from then on I was employed 
in the United States Department of Agriculture until I left Wash- 
ington. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your employment in St. 
Louis, which began, as I understand, in 1942 and extended until 1947? 

Mrs. NoRTHwooD. I was employed as a clerk-stenographer, I be- 
lieve. 

Mr. Tavenner. By whom? 

IMrs. NoRTHWooD. By United States Department of Agriculture, 
Rural Electrification Administration. 

Mr. Tavenner. How have you been employed since your arrival 
in Detroit since 1947? 

JMrs. NopTHAvooD. I don't recall any prior employment to my pres- 
ent except ])ossibly part time. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your present employment^ 

Mrs. NoR'siiwooD. I am a teacher. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that iu the ]uiblic school system or private school? 

Mrs. North WOOD. In the public school system of River Rouge. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been teaching there ? 

Mrs. NoRTHwooD. I believe I am completing my fourth year. 

Mr. Moulder. Teaching where ? I didn't hear. 

Mrs. NoRTHWooD. In the public school sj^stem of River Rouge. 

Mr. Tavenner. What age children do you teach ? In other words, 
what grade or class? 

Mrs. NoRTiiwooD. Tliird and fourth grades generally. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that 4-year period what was your occupa- 
tion in Detroit? 

Mrs. NoRTHwooD. I don't recall that I had any occupation except 
part time. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. What was the nature of your part time employment ? 

Mrs. NoRTHwooD. I teach social dancing or have tauglit it. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Did you engage in any other work for compensation 
during that period of time ? 

Mrs. NoRTHwooD. Occasional typing jobs that I could find. 

Mr. Tavenner. Any other work besides that ? 

Mrs. NoRTiiwooD. None that I can recall, sir, at this moment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where have you resided since you became a resident 
of Detroit? 

Mrs. NoRTHwooD. I have lived on Charlotte. 

Mr. Tavenner. What address, please? 

Mrs. NoRTHwooD. I don't recall the exact address, and 1 or 2 other 
places for a temporary length of time. 

Mr. Tavenner. What other places have you lived ? 



5072 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mrs. NoRTHWooD. I lived once, I tliink 2 times, on West Grand 
Boulevard. The addresses I don't recall. 

Mr. Ta\^enner. Will you give me the name of that street again, 
please ? 

Mrs. NoRTHwooD. Wliich is it are you referring to ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The last one you mentioned. 

Mrs. NoRTHwooD. West Grand Boulevard. 

Mr. Tavenner. I assume that you were required to file a personnel 
affidavit during the period of time that you worked for United States 
Government, did you not ? 

Mrs. NoRTHWooD. I presume, if it was required, I completed it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a personnel affidavit under date of May 
15, 1941. It is a photostatic copy, purportedly signed by Blanche 
Wang, under date of June 3, 1941. Will you examine it, please, and 
state whether or not you have prepared such an affidavit ? 

(At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. Northwood. What is your question, sir? 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked you if you will identify that as an affidavit 
prepared by you ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I see the affidavit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you recognize your signature? 

(At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. Northwood. Sir, it is my understanding that no person need 
testify against oneself. Therefore I rely on the provisions of the first 
amendment, the due process of the fifth and sixth amendments and 
fifth amendment privileges. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I understand you, but I cannot understand 
why you are taking that position with reference to this affidavit. Pos- 
sibly you didn't examine it carefully. It is an affidavit in which you 
stated that you do not advocate and that you are not a member of an 
organization that advocates the overthrow of the Government of the 
United States by force or violence. 

Now, how could the execution of that affidavit bring about the 
things that you have ascertained ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I have reasonable fear of undue prosecution. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer the affidavit in evi- 
dence and ask that it be marked Northwood Exhibit No. 1. 

Mr. Moulder. Of course the witness hasn't identified it, as I under- 
stand it. Did you examine this exhibit that was handed to you by the 
counsel ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I looked at the document. 

Mr. Moulder. Is it a true and correct photostatic copy of the affi- 
davit which you signed on the 15th day of May 1941 in connection with 
your employment with the United States Department of Agriculture? 

Mrs. Northwood. The same answer, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. You mean you are declining to answer ? 

Mrs. Northwood. For the reasons that I have given I refuse to 
answer this question. 

Mr. Clardy. You are declining to answer? 

Mrs. Northwood. I decline to answer this question for the reasons 
Just stated. 

Mr. Clardy. The exhibit will be received. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5073 

(The affidavit of May 15, 1941 marked Nortliwood Exhibit No. 1 was 
received in evidence.)^ 

Mr. Tavenner, The date is in 1941. Was any question raised sub- 
sequent to that time ? 

In fact, on June 9, 1942, wasn't a hearing granted you by the Secre- 
tary of Agricuh.ure regarding a loyalty matter? 

(At this point Mrs. North wood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. NoRTHWooD. Mr. Tavenner, I decline to answer that question 
under the provisions stated before. 

Mr. Tavenner. Weren't you given a clearance by the Department of 
Agriculture ? 

(At this jDoint Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. Northwood. I refuse for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the course of the hearing were you asked the 
following questions to which you gave the indicated replies : 

Question. Are you a member of the Young Communist League? 

Answer. No. 

Question. Are 5'ou a member of the Communist Party? 

Answer. No. 

Question. Were you ever a member of either organization? 

Answe:b. No. 

Were those questions asked and those answers made by you ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I decline to answer that question, sir, for the 
reasons just stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time prior to the date of this 
hearing on July 9, 1942, a member of the Yomig Communist League? 

(At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. Northwood. The same answer, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at any time prior to July 9, 1942, a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I shall use the same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. While in St. Louis as an employee of Rural Elec- 
trification, REA I believe you said it was, did you engage in any 
course of training other than that connected with your work in the 
RE A? 

(At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. Northwood. I shall refuse to answer that question, sir, for the 
same reasons given. 

Mr. Tavenner. On your arrival in Detroit where did you first 
make your home? 

Mrs. Northwood. I believe I made my home with my — on Char- 
lotte Street, as I explained to you. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your occupation during the period of 
time you lived on Charlotte Street? 

Mrs. Northwood. I was a student, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere? 

Mrs. Northwood. Wayne University. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was the owner of the home in which you 
lived ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I don't recall the homeowner. 

Mr. Moulder. May I ask 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 



* Retained in committee files. 
48861 — 54 — pt. 1 7 



5074 COIMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Moulder. How lonff did you live at that residence? 

Mrs. XoRTnwooD. I guess it was about a year. 

Mr. Moulder. Did you pay rent? 

Mrs. XoRTHWOOD. Yes, I 

Mr. Moulder. To wliom did you pay the rent ? 

Mrs. XoRTHWOOD. To my former mother-in-hxw. 

Mr. Moulder. Who is she; what is her name? 

Mrs. NoRTHWooD, She is deceased. 

Mr. Moulder. I say, what was her name ? 

Mrs. NoRTiiwooD. Her name was Mrs. Northwood. 

]\Ir. Moulder. Did she ow^n the property ? 

Mrs. Northwood. No, she did not. 

Mr. Moulder. Did she act as an agent for the owner ? 

Mrs. Northwood. No, she did not. 

Mv. Moulder. Do you know to whom she gave the money? 

jNlrs. NoRTHw^ooD. I do not. 

Mr. Moulder. Did you ever see the person that owned the property, 
the person from whom you Avere renting ? 

Mrs. Northwood. ]\Iy mother-in-law was the renter. I merely 
lived in her home. 

Mr. Moulder. Did the person who owned the property ever come 
there to make an inspection of the property? 

]\Irs. Northwood. I don't recall. 

Mr. Moulder. How long ago was that ? 

(At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred Avith Mr. Norris.) 

JVIrs. Northwood. Will you repeat your question, sir? I am not 
sure I- — 

Mr. Moulder. How long ago was it when you were residing there 
and when you lived there for a period of a year? 

Mrs. Northwood. When I first came to Detroit, which was in the 
early part of 1947, that year. 

Mr. Moulder. You lived there for a period of 1 year and never did 
see the owner of the property ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I sublet from my mother-in-law who was the 
tenant, and it was a large apartment building. I didn't know who 
owned the building. 

Mr. Moulder. I see. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the next residence that vou took up in 
Detroit? 

(At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. Northwood. I believe the next subse(iuent address was pos- 
sibly one on Hancock. 

Mr. Tavenxer. How long did you reside there? 

Mrs. Northwood. I am not sure whether it was a year or less. 

Mr. Tavenxer. AVhat was the next residential place that you 
occupied? 

Mrs. Northwood. It was an address on West Grand Boidevard. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Who lived at that address? Whose home was it? 
• (At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. Northwood. I will refuse to answer that question, sir, under 
the provisions that I have described before. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Clardy. The witness is so directed. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5075 

(At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. Northwood. I rely on the fifth amendment privilege. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you reside there ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I don't recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, was it a matter of months or a matter of 
years ? 

Mrs. Northwood. It was probably less than a year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mr. James Montgomery ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I think it is improper to ask of my associates, 
and I have no intentions of identifying innocent victims. I refuse 
to answer for the reasons just given. 

Mr. Clardt. I direct you to answer, and I want to point out that 
if the people are innocent as you refer to, no harm can come to them 
if you so indicate that they are innocent, but the protection of the 
fifth amendment does not extend to permitting you to refuse to give 
to this committee the names of persons with whom you are acquainted. 
That only extends to protecting you from incriminating yourself in 
a criminal proceeding. 

Proceed. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. Did you — — 

(At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me, 

Mr. Norris. I understood there was a direction. 

Mr. Clardy. I directed her to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Pardon me. 

(At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. Northwood. I rely on the fifth amendment privilege which is 
for the innocent. 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't hear the tail end of that. 

Mrs. Northwood. I say I rely on the fifth amendment privilege 
which is for the innocent. 

Mr. Clady. Proceed. 

Mr. Moulder. Mr. Tavenner, may I suggest that you identify who 
James Montgomery was ? Was that the first name ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. Further identify him as to who he is, so that he may 
not be confused with some other person and also so that the question 
might be clear to her as to whom you are referring to. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. sir; I will do that during the course of my 
(]uestions, and I think that will make it perfectly plain. 

Mr. Moulder. All right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you live in the home of Mr. James Montgomery 
during any of the period of time that you lived in Detroit? 
( At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris. ) 

Mrs. Northwood. I refuse to answer for the reasons given, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is Mr. James Montgomery the husband of Dr. 
Marian E, Zonnis? 

Mrs. Northwood. Again I think this is improper inquiry into my 
personal associates, if such, and I refuse to answer for the reasons 
given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you not live in the home of Mr. James Mont- 
gomery and Dr. Marian E. Zonnis? 

Mrs! Northwood. Sir ; I thought I made it very clear 



5076 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Tavenner. I hadn't finished my question — as an employee 
takino- care of a child or children ? 

(At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. Northwood. I refuse to answer, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Wasn't it the fact that both the doctor and her hus- 
band were members of the Communist Party and you knew them to 
be such ? 

Mrs. NoRTHAVOOD. Again I consider this an improper question con- 
cerning possible associations of mine, and I therefore decline to answer 
for the reasons already stated. 

Mr. Clardy, I think, Mr. Counsel, at this point I should interject 
this remark, tliat anyone, who may be named by any of the witnesses 
who appear before us who desires to be heard by the committee and 
to make any statement or give any testimony that he or she may wisli 
concerning the subject of the inquiry before us, is extended an invita- 
tion to do so, and if they will contact the committee, they will be given 
the opportunity to appear. 

Will you proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you not give Dr. INIarian E. Zonnis as a refer- 
ence when you sought employment at Wayne University, or rather, 
when you Avere seeking j'our teacher's certificate at Wayne University ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I decline to ansAver that question, sir. 

Mr. Taatenner. Are j^ou aware that at any time a meeting of the 
Communist Party Avas held in the home of James Montgomery while 
you were there? 

Mrs. NoRTHAVOOD. I decline to ansAver that question for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of any club of the Com- 
munist Party in the city of Detroit since you came here in 1947 ? 

Mrs. NoRTHAVOOD. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of a professional club or group 
of the Communist Party in St. Louis prior to your coming to Detroit? 

Mrs. NoRTHAVOOD. This is the same kind of question, and I refuse 
to answer for the reasons just given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend a training institute conducted by 
the Communist Party in St. Louis ? 

Mrs. Northwood. Again, sir, I refuse to ansAver that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Mrs. Marie Bascom? 

Mrs. Northwood. I refuse to answer that question for the reasons 
already stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you give Mrs. Marie Bascom as a reference 
when you sought your tcaclier's certificate at Wayne University? 

Mrs. NoRTHAVOOD. Same ansAver for the same reasons. 

Mr. Scih:rer. Do you knoAV Avhere Mrs. Bascom is now ? 

Mrs. NoRTHAVOOD. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you knoAv whether she is in INIexico ? 

Mrs. NoRTHAVOOD. I decline to ansAver the question. 

Mr. Clardy. Were you advised of the fact that the committee sought 
to serve subpenas on both her and her husband for this proceeding? 

Mrs. NoRTHAVOOD. The same ansAver, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. NoRTHAVOOD. The same ansAver, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any 
time while you were employed in the city of Washington by the 
Interior Department, the Navy, and the Department of Agriculture? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5077 

Mrs. NoRTHWOOD, I decline to answer that question for the reasons so 
many times given. 

Mr. Moulder. When was your employment terminated with the 
Government ? 

Mrs. North WOOD. Will you repeat the question, please, sir? 

Mr. Moulder. When did your employment cease; that is, your 
employment with the Government which Mr. Tavenner asked you 
about ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I believe it was in the early part of 1945. I termi- 
nated the Government service. 

Mr. Moulder. What did you say ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I terminated the Government service. 

Mr. Moulder. What department were you then employed by ? 

Mrs. Northwood. Department of Agriculture. 

Mr. Moulder. Do you mean you voluntarily resigned ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I resigned. 

Mr. Moulder. You weren't requested to resign ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I resigned, sir. 

Mr. Moulder. Well, were you 

Mr. Clardy. That is not the answer to the question. 

Mr. Moulder. Were you requested to resign ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I was not requested to resign. 

Mr. Moulder. Then, as I understand, you voluntarily resigned? 

Mrs. Northwood. That is right. 

Mr. Scherer. While you were working for the United States Gov- 
ernment, Joseph Forer at one time was your immediate supervisor, 
was he not ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Scherer. On your application, dated November 5, 1941, you 
listed Joseph Forer as your immediate superior ; isn't that right? 

Mrs. Northwood. I decline to answer that question, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you know where Joseph Forer is today ? 

Mrs. Northwood. Same answer. 

Mr. Scherer. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any questions ? 

Mr. Moulder. Yes. Mr. Tavenner, who are the Bascoms, for the 
record ? Can you give any information concerning them, as to who 
they are. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. and Mrs. Bascom were individuals that the 
committee sought to subpena and was unsucessful, and I think dur- 
ing the course of the hearing evidence will be introduced to further 
identify them. I doubt that I should attempt to do it from memory. 

Mr. Moulder. I see. As to your educational background, did you 
say that you were educated at Northwestern Univesrity ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I took one course at Northwestern University 
many years ago. 

Mr. Moulder. And then what was your main school ? 

Mrs. Northwood. St. Louis University and then Wayne University. 

Mr. Moulder. You never attended Harris Teachers College? 

Mrs. Northwood. Oh, yes ; for one course, too. 

Mr. Moulder. Is that in St. Louis? 

Mrs. Northw^ood. Yes, sir. 



5078 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. ScHERER. Witness, when you applied for your teacher's cer- 
tificate in tlie State of Michigan didn't you give Marie Bascom as 
a reference? 

Mrs. NoRTHWOOD. I decline to answer that question for the reasons 
already given. 

Mr. ScriERER. How could that possibly incriminate you if you gave 
this woman as a reference at the time you applied for a teacher's 
certificate ? 

Mrs. NoRTHAVOOD. I must rely on my constitutional rights and not 
b-e. a witness against myself. 

Mr. ScHERER. I have nothing fvirther. 

Mr. Clardy, Witness, in the affidavit which was filed you took an 
oath that you were not a member of an organization which advocated 
the overtthrow of the United States Government by force and vio- 
lence. I want to ask you as of now, today, whether or not you are 
a member of an organization that advocates the overthrow of this 
Government by the use of force and violence. 

Mrs. NoRTiiwooD. Mr. Clardy, I refuse to answer that question for 
the reasons already given. 

Mr. Clardy. When you answered in the affidavit, did you state the 
truth as you knew it at that time ? 

Mrs. NoRTHWOOD. I have stated my reasons, sir, and I have the same 
answer. 

Mr. Clardy. You mean you are declining to answer on the grounds 
stated? 

Mrs. NoRTHWOOD. I decline to answer, yes, sir, for the reasons given. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you at all familiar with the policies and the doc- 
trines and the practices of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. NoRTHWOOD. Again I must say that I refuse to answer this 
question. 

Mr. Clardy. You are refusing to answer that ? 

Mrs. Nortpiwood. I refuse to answer it. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any knowledge as to whether or not the 
Communist Party does advocate the overthrow of this Government 
through the use of force and violence ? 

Mrs. Northwood. I may have a monotonous recital of the same 
answer, but that is my answer. I refuse to answer this question. 

Mr. ScHERER. I think she should be directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Clardy. That is what I was turning over in my mind. I think 
I will. I direct that you answer that last question. 

(At this point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. Northwood. I refuse to answer the question, sir, for the rea- 
sons already stated. 

Mr. Clardy. The name of Joseph Forer was brought in by Congress- 
man Sclierer. Is this Joseph Forer an attorney ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Cl^vrdy. I was addressing that to counsel. I should have so 
stated. Do you (addressing witness) know what position he occupied 
at that time? I understand he was your superior. "Wliat position 
in tlie Department of Agricidture did he then occupy? 

Mrs. Northwood. Sir, this is concerning any possible personal asso- 
ciates. I cannot answer this question. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5079 

Mr. SciiERER. You listed him in your application. 

Mr. Clardy. That is right. 

Mr. ScHERER. As your immediate superior. 

Mrs. NoRTiiwooD. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is already a matter of public record. 

Mr. Clardy. I must direct you to answer that question because I can 
see no possible incrimination for you to tell me something that is 
already in a public record. I want you to tell it to us so that it may be 
properly recorded. What was his position ? 

(At tills point Mrs. Northwood conferred with Mr. Norris.) 

Mrs. NoRTHWOOD. I refuse to answer the question, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. When did you last see Joseph Forer? 

Mrs. NoRTHWOOD. I refuse to answer that question also. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer that ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Clardy. I so direct. 

Mrs. NoRTHWooD. Again I must refuse to answer the question for 
the reasons already given. 

Mr. Clardy. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the 
time you were employed in the Department of Agriculture ? 

Mrs. NoRTHwooD. By now I thought you might know my answer. 
It is the same. 

Mr. Clardy. We may, but we must ask the question. 

Mrs. NoRTiiwooD. All right. I refuse to answer that question, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any further questions, Mr. Counsel? 

Mr. Tavenner. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. The witness is excused. 

If you newspaper photographers will sit down for a moment, I 
have an announcement to make. You needn't be so alert at this 
moment. Due to the fact that counsel for the witness we called im- 
mediately preceding this one attempted to in effect take over the 
proceedings as he did in Federal court when he argued before Judge 
Picard for the dismissal or quashing of this proceeding, it became 
necessary for the Chair to postpone the appearance of the witness 
because we want him to obtain counsel, even though the counsel that 
he brought in did improperly attempt to violate the rules, and he 
well knew that he was doing so, and it was obviously done for the 
purpose of creating precisely the kind of scene that occurred. It will 
not be tolerated by anybody anytime as long as I am presiding in this 
chair, but because of the fact that it was necessary to take the action 
that his actions called for, our timing as to the number of witnesses 
is a trifle off today, and the other witnesses that have been subpenaed 
for tomorrow will appear at the appointed time tomorrow, but it is 
my understanding there are no others on call for today. Am I right, 
Mr. Appell — and I am told that those who are under subpena were 
told — and if they have not been they will be now — to appear either 
this afternoon or tomorrow at 9 : 30 tomorrow morning and in view 
of the fact that Mr. Appell tells me that at least one— there may be 
more— were specifically told by him to appear in the afternoon. 
Those who were so advised will appear in the afternoon. Otherwise 
all the rest will appear at 9 : 30 tomorrow morning. 



5080 COIVIMUXIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Counsel, do you have anything more to say before we adjourn 
for the day ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Nothing more at this time. 

Mr. Clardy. Any suggestions from members of the subcommittee ? 
Very well, then, the proceedings stand adjourned until 9 : 30 tomor- 
row morning. 

(Whereupon, at 3 : 40 p. m., the hearing recessed to 9 : 30 a. m., 
Tuesday, May 4, 1954.) 



INYESTrnxlTION OF COMMUNIST ACTIYITIES IN THE 

STATE or MICHIGAN— PAET 1 

(Detroit— Edu cation) 



TUESDAY, MAY 4, 1954 

United States House of Eepresentath^es, 
Subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 



Detroit^ Mich. 



executinte session 



The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to call, at 1 : 32 p. m., in room 855, Federal Building, Hon. 
Kit Clardy presiding. 

Committee members present : Kepresentatives Kit Clardy and Gor- 
don H. Scherer (appearance noted in transcript) . 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Donald T. 
Appell, investigator; and Mrs. Juliette P. Joray, acting clerk. 

Mr. Clardy. The hearing will come to order. The witness will 
stand and be sworn. You do solemnly swear the testimony you are 
about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Rapoport. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. You may be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF SHIRLEY RAPOPOET, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 
COUNSEL, BERNARD PIEGER 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your name, please ? 

Mrs. Rapoport. Shirley Rapoport. 

Mr. Ta^tenner. Are you accompanied by counsel? 

Mrs. Rapoport. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record. 

Mr. FiEGER. Bernard Fieger. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you give your married name? 

Mrs. Rapoport. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your maiden name? 

Mrs. Rapoport. Shirley Goodman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a native of Detroit ? 

Mrs. Rapoport. No, sir ; I was born in Chicago. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you come to Detroit ? 

Mrs. Rapoport. I came to Detroit in 1937. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Have you lived in Detroit constantly since that time ? 



* Released by the committee. 

6081 



5082 COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mrs. Rapoport. No, sir. In the year 1937-38 I went back to Cham- 
paign, 111., to finish college. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your educational training? 

Mrs. Rapoport. I was graduated in 1938 from the University of 
Illinois with a bachelor of science degree, and then in 1943 I was 
granted a teaching certificate from Wayne University. 

(Representative Gordon H. Scherer entered the hearing room at this 
point.) 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your occupation since 1943 ? 

Mrs. Rapoport. I taught in Detroit between 1940 — let me see. I 
taught in 1943 and 1944, and then I was on a maternity leave and had 
a child, and then I went back in 1947 and taught until 1951, at which 
time I had another child, I now have 3, and I am now a housewife. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you teaching in the public schools of Detroit 
or in private schools ? 

Mrs. Rapoport. In the public schools of Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committe, please, whether or not 
during the period that you were teaching you were a member of the 
Communist Party? 

(At this point Mrs. Rapoport conferred with Mr. Fieger.) 

Mrs. Rapoport. I have to decline to answer that, sir, on the grounds 
of the privilege of the freedom of speech of the first amendment and 
the immunity granted to me by the fifth amendment to the Consti- 
tution. 

Mr. Tavionner. Mr. Chairman, in light of the witness' answer, I 
think it is apparently worthless to pursue the investigation further so 
far as she is concerned, so I have no further questions. 

Mr. Clardy. Did she raise the fifth amendment? I didn't hear. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Yes. 

Mr. Fieger. To the question you specifically asked. 

Mr. Tavenner. The fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Fieger. I say to the question you specifically asked. 

Mr. Tavenner. I say did she? 

Mr. Fieger. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't hear. I heard the first amendment which, of 
course, if j^ou were here yesterday, you know we do not recognize. 
We do the fifth amendment if it is properly invoked. I will ask 
her one or two more. You were asked if you had been a member of 
the Communist Party during the time you were teaching. I would 
like to ask you the further question if at any time you have been a 
member of the party ? 

]Mrs. Rapoport. I would have to refuse again, sir, on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Nothing further. 

Mr. Clardy. No further questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think I should ask one other question. Are you 
now a member of the Communist Party? 

(At this point ]Mrs. Rapoport conferred with Mr. Fieger.) 

Mrs. Rapoport. I nm not, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party 
at any time since 1950? 

Mrs. Rapoport. I decline to answer that on the grounds I pre- 
viously stated, sir. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5083 

Mr. ScHERER. Were you yesterday? 

Mrs. Rapoport. I decline to answer that, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr, Clardy. You say you are not a member today ? 

Mrs. Eapofort. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. But you will not answer as to yesterday, as I under- 
stand it. 

Mrs. Rapoport. No, sir ; I feel that that is infringing on my rights 
as an American citizen. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, in view of that refusal, we will suspend the 
hearing at this time and resume in open session later, and the dispo- 
sition of your subpena will be a matter of which we will notify you 
later after we have had time to consult. 

(Whereupon, at 1: 37 p. m. the hearing was adjourned.) 



INDEX TO PART 1 



Individuals 

Page 

Anbender, Larry H 5063 

Baldwin, Bereniece 5059 

Bascom, Marie 5076-5078 

Bascom, Mr . 5077 

Baxter, Bolza 5069 

Beveridge 4995 

Bryant, Thomas Ellis 5056, 5057-5063 (testimony) 

Cherveny, John 5004, 5007-5010 

Cohen, Leonard 5009 

Daly, Francis Martin, Jr 5002-5010 (testimony) 

Dodd, Bella 501S, 5019, 5021 

Fieger, Bernard 5081 

Field, G. Leslie 5012, 5036, 5052 

Forer, Joseph 5077-5079 

Foster, William Z 5020 

Freeman, Harold 4993 

Goodman, Shirley {see also Rapoport, Shirley) 5081 

Gore, Jack 5005, 5008, 5009 

Graber, Sidney 5009, 5048, 5049-5051 (testimony), 5056 

Harrison, Gerald I 5012-5035 (testimony) 

Henry, Milton R 5069 

Hoover, J. Edgar 5020 

Kitto, Russell 5006, 5008 

Klein, Lawrence R 4991-5(X)1 (testimony) 

Levinson, Norman 4993 

Miller, George 5063-5070 (testimony) 

Montgomery, James 5075, 5076 

Norris, Harold 5048, 5049, 5070 

Northwood, Blanche {see also Wang, Blanche) 5070-5080 (testimony) 

Noyes, Henry 4995 

Patterson, William 4995 

Picard, Judge 5079 

Probe, Bernard 5056-5063 

Rapoport, Shirley {see also Goodman, Shirley) 5081-5083 (testimony) 

Rosen, Harold 5051, 5052-5056 (testimony) 

Rosenberg, Ethel 5056 

Rosenberg, Julius 5056 

Sandell, Carl 5040 

Shenkar, George 5008 

Stein, Irving 5036-5047 (testimony) 

Stern, Shirley 4997 

Struik, Dirk 4993 

Wang, Blanche {see also Northwood, Blanche) 5070, 5072 

Winter, Carl 5055, 5056 

Zonnis, Marian E 5075, 5076 

Organizations 

Abraham Lincoln School, Chicago 4995-4998 

American Federation of Labor 5021, 

American Federation of Teachers 5018, 5020-5022, 5026 

American Peace Crusade 5044 

American Youth for Democracy 5000, 5004 

Amphitheater School, Tucson, Ariz 5068 



li INDEX 

Pag* 

Arizona State College, Tempe, Ariz 5014 

Bretton Woods Asreement on International Trade 4995 

Brooklyn Xavy Yard 5029 

California Institute of Technology 5014, 5017, 5018 

Camp Davis, X. C f^044 

Camp Evans, Belmar, N. J 5041 

Camp Murphy, Fla — — 5044 

City College, New York 5052 

Civil Riehts Congress 5055 

Civil Rights Congress of Michigan 5059 

Civil Rights Federation 5055 

Cleveland College 5060 

Communist Party : 

Boston, Mass., Frederick Douglass Southeast Branch 5033 

Chicago 5001 

Chicago, South Shore Club 4998 

Chicago, South Side Club 4998 

Michiiran 5034, 5050 

Michigan, Southfield Clul) 5059 

Michigan State Convention, 1948 5050 

Michigan, Wayne Club 5005 

St. Louis — 5076 

Communist Political Association 5054 

Congress of Industrial Organizations 5021 

Congress of Industrial Organizations, Political Action Committee 5000 

CowIps Commission for Research and Economics 4992 

Detroit Federation of Teachers 5021, 504G 

Detroit Federation of Teachers, Wayne University chapter 502G 

Dumbarton Oaks Conference 4995, 4998 

Federal Bureau of Investigation 5005 

Federal music project 5053 

Fort Monmouth 5041 

General ^Motors Corp., Fisher Body Division 5000 

Harris Teachers College, St. Louis 5077 

Harvard Underwater Sound Laboratory 5015, 5016, 5026 

Harvard University 5016, 5017 

Independent Progressive Party (Detroit) 5028 

International Worlvers' Order 4998 

Jewish People's Fraternal Order 4996-4998, 5000 

Ku Klux Klan 5062 

Labor School of Bostcm 4992-4994 

Los Angeles City College 4991 

Massachusetts Institv;te of Technology 4991-49r5, 5015 

Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Radiatiou Laboratories 5026 

Michigan Labor Scbool 5053, 5054 

Motor Carrier Central Freight Association 5057, 5061 

National Bureau of Economic Research - 4992 

Naval Ordnance Laboratory, Washington 5017, 5030 

New INIexico State College of A. and M. A 5018 

Northwestern University 5077 

Progressive Party, Detroit. (See Independent Progressive Party, De- 
troit.) 

Queens College 5014, 5037 

River Rouge High School 5003 

Samuel Adams School, Boston 4992-4995 

San F'rancisco Conference 4995, 4996 

Signal Corps Radar Laboratory 5041-5043 

Social Science Research Council 4992 

Sperry Gyroscope Co 5014-5016, 5025, 5028-5030 

St. Louis University 5077 

Stanford University 5037 

Teachers College, Columbia University 5052 

Teachers Union 4993, 5020, 5021 

Teachers Union, New York 5020 

United States Department of Agriculture 5071-5073, 5076, 5078, 5079 



INDEX iii 

Page 
United States Department of Agriculture, Rural Electrification Adminis- 
tration 5071, 5073 

United States Department of tlie Interior 5071, 5076 

United States Marine Corps 1 5066, 5068 

United States Navy Department 5071, 5076 

University of Arizona 5066 

University of California, Berkeley 4991, 4992 

University of Cbicago 4992 

University of Illinois 5082 

University of Michigan 4992 

University of Oregon 5037 

Wayne University 5002, 

5003, 5008, 5018, 5026, 5027, 5037, 5041, 5043, 5046, 5049, 5073, 5076, 

5077, 5082. 

Wesleyan Society 5008 

Western Reserve University 5060 

Works Progress Administration 5053, 5054 

Young Communist League 5073 

Publications 

Daily People's World 5045, 5046, 5067 

Daily Worker 4999, 5010 

History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union 5006 

Michigan Worker 5009 

Wayne Collegian (Wayne University, Detroit) 5031,5033 

o 



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BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY 



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