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Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the State of Michigan. Hearings"

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INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 

STATE OF MICHIGAN— Part 7 

(LANSING) 



HEARINGS 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



JUNE 8, 1953; MAY 11, 1954 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
INCLUDING INDEX 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 

^861 WASHINGTON : 1954 




Boston Public Library 
Superintendent of Documents 

SEP 2 8 1354 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives 
HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois, Chairman 

BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York FRANCIS B. WALTER, Pennsylvania 

DONALD L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri 

KIT CLARDY, Michigan CLYDE DOYLE, California 

GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio JAMES B. FRAZIER, JE., Tennessee 

Robert L. Kunzig, Counsel 

Fkank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel 

Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk 

Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 

Courtney E. Owens, Acting Chief Investigator 

n 



CONTEXTS 

Page 

June 8, 1953, testimony of — 

Goldie Zora Gregurek 5416 

Frank Gregurek 5423 

May 11, 1954, testimony of— 

John C. Houston 5433 

Richard Fox 5448 

Richard Lawrence Davis 5456 

Harold L. Sliapiro 5470 

Index i 

ni 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES 

RJJLE X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 
****** ^ 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 

fluus XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a vphole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and at- 
tacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, 
and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any 
necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session ) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 83D CONfJUESS 

House Resolution 5, January 3, 1053 

* * * * * * * 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 
the following standing committees : 

******* 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 

>•: * * * * * * 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American Activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by or Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance of 
such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and doucuments, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 

VI 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
STATE OF MICHIGAN— Part 7 

(Lansing) 



MONDAY, JUNE 8, 1953 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Lansing^ Mich. 
executive session ^ 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pusiiant to call, at 10 : 45 a, m., in room 712, Olds Tower Building, 
Lansing, Mich., Hon. Kit Clardy (acting chairman) presiding. 

Committee member present : Representative Kit Clardy. 

Staff members present: Donald T. Appell, investigator; and 
Dolores Anderson, reporter. 

Mr. Clardy. Mrs. Gregnrek, will you stand and be sworn, please? 
In the testimony you are about to give, do you solmenly swear to tell 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. Will counsel please state his name and address for 
the record, please ? 

Mr. Leitson. Morton Leitson, attorney, 804 Detroit Street, Flint, 
Mich. 

Mr. Clardy. I had better inquire as to whether or not you have ever 
appeared before this committee, or a subcommittee. If not, I will 
give a brief explanation. The witness has a right to counsel. If at 
any time she wishes to confer with her counsel, she may do so. If some 
particularly important question should arise and you want to leave 
the room in order to confer in private, you have a right to do so, but 
counsel is not permitted to take any part in the hearing, other than 
to confer with his client. If you have an inquiry as to the propriety 
of the committee sitting with only 1 member, I have been appointed 
as a subcommittee of 1 by the chairman and am sitting as his sub- 
committee. Since you are not the first witness we have heard this 
morning, that statement has been duly placed in the record at the 
opening of our hearings. 

The chairman may appoint a subcommittee for the purposes of 
holding hearings, rather than sit as a full committee, and in this case 
it has been done. 

Are you ready, Mr. Appell ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes, Mr. Chairman, 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed with the questions, please. 

Mr, Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, will you give us your full name, please ? 

^ Released by the committee. 

5415 



5416 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

TESTIMONY OF GOLDIE ZORA GREGUKEK, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 

COUNSEL, MORTON LEITSON 

Mrs. Gregurek. Goldie Zora Gregurek. 

Mr. Appell. Wliere do you reside i 

Mrs. Gregurek. 401 Beaver Street. 

Mr. Appell. Ill what town ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. Lansing, Mich. 

Mr. Appell. Wlien and where were you born ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. In Chicago, Ilh, on September 18, 1916. 

Mr. Appell. Would you outline your occupational background from 
1935 on, please ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I have been a housewife. I have worked in stores, 
done restaurant work, and clerking. That is about all. 

Mr. Appell. Where are you presently employed ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. At the American State Bank. 

Mr. Clardy. Here in Lansing? 

Mrs. Gregurek. That's right. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, I will show you a photograph and 
while this photograph is rather recent, I ask you if you recognize the 
individual appearing in this photograph as an individual that you at 
any time knew ? 

(At this point, Mrs. Gregurek conferred with Mr. Leitson.) 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer this question under the jBfth 
amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. May I make this statement, and you may listen to this. 
Counsel : From now on if she wishes to raise the same grounds, she 
need only say "I refuse to answer on the same grounds." It will be 
thoroughly understood when she does this that she is each time rais- 
ing the fifth amendment. I may or may not agree as to whether she 
has the right to raise it or not in good faith, but she may do so if 
she wishes. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, the individual who is in the photo- 
graph I showed you is Dr. Byron Thorwell Darling. During the 
period of 1938 through 1941, Dr. Darling was an instructor at the 
Michigan State College. Did you know Dr. Byron Thorwell Darling ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Would you, Mrs. Gregurek, deny knowing an individ- 
ual if you, in fact, did not Imow him ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you ever hear at any time of an individual by the 
name of Dr. Darling ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer — on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, be sure and say that. The committee does not 
wish to take advantage of anyone, but after having told a witness 
what to do, he must do it from then on, without further direction from 
the Chair. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, did you in 1939 reside at 401 Beaver 
Street, in the city of Lansing, Mich. ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I did. 

Mr. Clardy. When did you move to that location — approximately 
when? 

Mrs. Gregurek. On March 9, 1938. 
Mr. Clardy. And you still reside there? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5417 

Mrs. Gregurek. Yes. 

Mr. Clardt. And have continuously since that time? 

Mrs. Gregukek. That's right. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, the records of the secretary of state of 
the State of Michigan shows that in 1940, an individual, G. Gregurek, 
401 Beaver Street, was the signer of a Communist Party petition. 
Are you that individual ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. ^ 

Mr. Appell. The committee information reflects that in the year 
1940 you were a member of the Communist Party. Is that informa- 
tion true ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. The committee information further shows that, dur- 
ing the same period of time, you were an officer of the Communist 
Party in the State of Michigan. Is that true or false ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. This information also states that you were a member 
of the State central committee of the Communist Party from the State 
of Michigan. Is that correct ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, in 1940, information was received 
that students from the Michigan State College were holding meet- 
ings at your residence at 401 Beaver Street. Is that true or false ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. I re- 
fuse to answer any questions as to my political beliefs. 

Mr. Clardt. You are not being asked about your political beliefs, 
and we are not going to indulge you in that. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know a graduate student in Michigan State 
College in 1940 by the name of Charles Gainor ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Charles Gainor has appeared as a witness before 
this committee, and has admitted he was a member of the Young 
Communist League, and that the unit to which he belonged held 
meetings at the residence, 401 Beaver Street. Is that true or false ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. He has testified that Dr. Byron Thorwell Darling was 
there at those meetings. Is that true ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Was Dr. Darling the individual who made the ar- 
rangements with you for the use of your home ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardt. Did you know there was a Dr. Darling who held a 
position on the faculty of Michigan State College? My question is: 
Did you know there was such an individual ? 

(At this point Mrs. Gregurek conferred with Mr. Leitson.) 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Clardt. Witness, I am directing you, as chairman of this sub- 
committee, to answer that question, because in the opinion of the Chair 
that is not a question in which the fifth amendment can be invoked 
properly and fairly. So you are being directed to answer that ques- 
tion. 

(At this point Mrs. Gregurek conferred with Mr. Leitson.) 

48861— 54— pt. 7 2 



5418 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mrs. Gregurek. I still refuse to answer that question under the 
same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. You know there is a college in East Lansing by the 
name of Michigan State College? 

Mrs. Gregurek. Yes, I know that. 

Mr. Clardy. You also know it has and has had a great many people 
on its faculty ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. Yes, I know that. 

Mr. Clardy. You have visited the college and are familiar with its 
location and a great many things about the college ; is that true ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. But you refuse to tell me whether or not there was 
a member of the staff by the name of Professor Darling. 

Mrs. Gregurek. Yes, that's right. 

Mr. Clardy. Even though that fact may have been publicly- stated 
many times in the newspapers hereabouts ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. Yes, that's right. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, I show you a photostatic reproduction 
of two pages from a 1939 Communist Party membership book. These 
two pages I exliibit to you have been taken from the dues section of 
the book. You will notice under the month of May, March, and April, 
in place of the stamp which is usually affixed, that there are the initials 
G. G. I would like to ask you if those are your initials ? 

Mr. Clardy. Exliibit the documents to her, Mr. Appell. 

(Whereupon Mr. Appell exhibits documents to the witness.) 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer under the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Would you deny a handwriting analysis that they were 
yours ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, have you ever seen anything of this kind 
before ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. You recognize the fact that on the paper there is the 
familiar hammer and sickle and the words, "Communist Party, USA" 
printed as a sort of background. You see that on the document ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Clardy. In fact you see it on both of them ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. You also see there is a stamp which in some measure 
reproduces that same insignia ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I do, yes. 

Mr. Clardy. You also observe, as has been stated in prior questions 
that those initials are located in three separate places on the two 
sections ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. Yes. 

Mr. CiiARDY. I take it you are familiar with your own handwriting? 

Mrs. Gregurek. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you tell me now, is that your own handwriting? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I still refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you deny that it is your handwriting? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Mark that as "Mrs. Gregurek Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2," 
Miss Reporter. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5419 

(Whereupon the documents herein described were marked "Mrs, 
Gregurek Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2," respectively.^) 

Mr. Clardy. Before you ask another question, Mr. Appell, the 
photograph exhibited to her as Professor Darling was marked as 
"Exhibit No. 1" in the case of another hearing. It is the same photo- 
graph. Isn't that correct, Mr. Appell ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes sir. 

Mr. Clardy.: Mrs. Gregurek Exhibits No. 1 and 2 are received. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, did you know a student at the Michi- 
gan State College by the name of Arthur Wright ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Arthur Wright is now residing in Detroit, Mich. 
Have you seen Arthur Wright in recent years ? 

Mrs, Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr, Clardy. Did you see him just before you came to my office 
today ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. I am directing you to answer that last question speci- 
fically. 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you confer with Arthur Wright about your pros- 
pective appearance here today ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. How long have you known Mr, Wright ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you know his first wife ? 

Mrs, Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds, 

Mr, Clardy, Did you ever partake in meetings of any kind at which 
Mr. Wright, and his wife, were also present ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Did Mr. Wright visit your home at any time ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Did he ever visit your home at the same time Professor 
Darling was present at your home ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Did his wife ever visit your home in the presence of 
Doctor Darling ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. In order to eliminate any confusion in the record. 
Doctor Darling was known by the name of "Thor." Did you ever 
know "Thor" Darling? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, it is the committee's information that 
over the last 14 years you have remained in a position of leadership in 
the Communist Party in the city of Lansing, Mich. Is that true or 
false ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 



1 Retained in committee files. 



5420 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Clardy. Did you know whether or not there were Communist 
cells in Lansing, or its vicinity ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, did you know Stanley Nowak ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Virginia Glenn ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Charles A. Hill ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Are you a member of the State committee of the Pro- 
gressive Party ? 

(At this point Mrs. Gregurek conferred with Mr. Leitson.) 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, I again direct you to answer that question. 

(At this point Mrs. Gregurek conferred with Mr. Leitson.) 

Mrs. Gregurek. On the same grounds, I refuse. I refuse to answer 
all questions dealing with persons, personalities, books, letters, organi- 
zations, and political parties, because I don't know what the Attorney 
General would have on the list. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you aware of the fact there is a party known as 
the Progressive Party in the State of Michigan ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. Yes, I know of it. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you know whether or not it has published docu- 
ments listing persons or other details concerning it ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. Yes, I know that. 

Mr. Clardy. Has your name appeared on it ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. I must direct you to answer that. I warn you that 
your refusal to answer will place you in contempt of Congress. Again 
I direct you to answer the question. 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, you stated earlier you were going to 
refuse to answer with respect to certain things because you didn't 
know what the Attorney General had on his list. I will tell you as a 
fact that the Progressive Party has not been cited by the Attorney 
General. 

Mrs. Gregurek. Can you state as a fact that it won't be on the 
list? 

Mr. Appell. I am talking of today. 

Mrs. Gregurek. I am talking of today, too. 

Mr. Clardy. I shall tell you frankly. Witness, I shall recommend a 
citation for contempt because of your failure to answer that and other 
questions. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, Stanley Nowak, Virginia Glenn, and 
Charles A. Hill, representing themselves as chairman and secretary 
of the State Central Committee, and secretary of the State convention 
of the Progressive Party on September 26, 1949, filed with the secretary 
of state a list of the officers of the State central committee, which has 
on it the name of Mrs. Goldie Gregurek, of 401 Beaver Street, Lansing, 
Mich. I am going to ask you now if that is you ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you deny your name was listed on the documents 
just described to you ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5421 

Mr. Appell. On November 7, 1950, the Progressive Fartj again 
filed with the secretary of state a list of officers, and on it again, as a 
member of the State central committee appears the name of Goldie 
Gregurek of 401 Beaver Street, Lansing, Mich. Is that you ? 

Mrs. Gregueek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Jerome Shore ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Dorothy Wright ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Ernest Goodman ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell, The three individuals whose names I have just asked 
you about, following the convention of the Progressive Party on Au- 
gust 16, 1952, listed the names of individuals who had been elected as 
Presidential and Vice Presidential electors of the Progressive Party, 
and listed with the Secretary of State as one of the electors was the 
name of Goldie Gregurek, of 401 Beaver Street, Lansing, Mich. I 
ask you if that was you. 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. You are directed to answer that question. 

Mrs. Gregurek. I still refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardt. That happens again to be a matter of public knowl- 
edge. 

Mrs. Gregurek. You are still trying to make me answer and make 
me be a stool pigeon. 

Mr. Clardy. You are in contempt of Congress, and I will be derelict 
in my duty if I do not warn you of that. Now will you answer the 
question ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. No, I won't answer it. I refuse to answer it on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Very well, you have chosen your course. Witness. I 
ask you if you are now or ever have been a member of the Communist 
Party and you refused to answer. Have you ever been a member of 
an organization known as the Young Communist League ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever been a member of any affiliate of the 
Communist Party? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question under the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you a member at the present time of any under- 
ground unit of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any more questions, Mr. Appell? 

Mr. Appell. Yes sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed with your questions, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Another member of the Michigan State College staff 
was known as John Burnette Payne. Did you know John Burnette 
Payne ? 

Mrs. GreguPuEK. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, did you ever attend any meetings at 
the Trailer Colony at Michigan State College? 



5422 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, in 1941, or a period prior to that 

Mr. Clardy. Prior to 1941 ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes sir. Did you attend a school operated by the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever attend a school operated by the Com- 
munist Party in which the overthrow of the United States by force 
and violence was described ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever attend a school operated by the Com- 
munist Party at which espionage was discussed ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you ever attend any such school at which Pro- 
fessor Darling was also present ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. I told you that before. 

Mr. Clardy. We shall continue to ask you questions. 

Mrs. Gregurek. You keep on asking, and I'll give the same answers. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Eichard Fox ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Have you seen Richard Fox within the last 2 days ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know George Fox at Flint, Mich.? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you attend his wedding ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Now I direct you to answer that last question as to 
whether you attended a wedding. 

Mrs. Gregurek. I still refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Gerald O. Whitf ord, who was teaching 
at Michigan State College ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Apell. Did you know Virginia Dryanski ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mrs. Gregurek, what was your maiden name ? 

Mrs. Gregurek. My maiden name ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes. 

Mrs. Gregurek. Dobrinec. 

Mr. Clardy. Will you spell that? 

Mrs. Gregurek. D-o-b-r-i-n-e-c. 

Mr. Appell. You will not deny the evidence that the committee has 
assembled over a period of 1940 that you were a member of the State 
Central Committee of the Communist Party of Michigan? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Appell. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Haven't you actually held meetings in your own home 
of the underground apparatus of the Communist Party, at which 
Professor Darling was present? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same gi'ounds. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5423 

Mr. Clardy. And didn't Professor Darling at many of those meet- 
ings act as leader and one who gave instructions to the rest of you? 

Mrs. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any further questions, Mr. Appell ? 

Mr. Appell. No, I don't, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. You will be excused from the hearing at this moment, 
Mrs. Gregurek, and after my report to the full committee you will be 
told as to whether or not you are continued under the subpena. 

Mrs. Gregurek. Under the subpena I am under now ? 

Mr. Clardy. Under the subpena, until the committee discharges 
it. You will be told by Mr. Appell about the mileage, and so forth, 
which the committee will pay. Will you do that, Mr. Appell ? 

Mr. Appell. I will do so, yes, sir. 

(Whereupon the executive session of the subcommittee adjourned 
at 11 : 20 a. m. Monday, June 8, 1953, until further call of the Chair.) 

AFTERNOON EXECUTIVE SESSION 

(The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to call, at 2 p. m., room 712, Olds Tower Building, 
Lansing, Mich., Hon. Kit Clardy (acting chairman) presiding. 
Committee members present: Representative Kit Clardy. Staff 
members present: Donald T. Appell, investigator; and Dolores An- 
derson, reporter. ) 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Gregurek, will you stand and be sworn, please? 
In the testimony you are about to give, do you solmenly swear to tell 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. You are represented by counsel, I see. Will the 
counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Leitson. My name is Morton Leitson, of 804 Detroit Street, 
Flint, Mich. 

Mr. Clardy. You were present at another hearing this morning 
and therefore know the rules of the committee regarding your rights 
as a counsel, so I will not repeat them at this time. You may proceed 
with the questions, please, Mr. Appell. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, will you state your full name and ad- 
dress, please ? 

TESTIMONY OF FRANK GEEGUREK, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, MORTON LEITSON 

Mr. Gregurek. Frank Gregurek, 410 Beaver Street, Lansing, Mich. 
, Mr, Appell. Mr. Gregurek, when were you born ? 
Mr. Gregurek. November 29, 1910. 
Mr. Appell. What year did you enter the United States ? 
Mr. Gpjsgurek. In 1927. 
Mr. Clardy. And from what nation ? 
Mr. Gregurek. Yugoslavia. 

Mr. Appell. At what port did you enter the United States ? 
Mr. Gregurek. New York. 

Mr. Appell. Did you accompany anyone or did you come by your- 
self ? 

Mr. Gregurek. By myself. 



5424 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Appell. You are presently a citizen of tlie United States ? 

Mr. Gregueek. Yes. 

Mr. Appell. When and where were you naturalized ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I was nauralized as a minor. 

Mr. Claedy. Derivative citizenship, in other words ? 

Mr. Appell, When did your father come to the United States? 

Mr. Gregurek. I can't recall the dates. 

Mr. Appell. Was it before or after you ? 

Mr. Gregurek. It was way before me. I was 2 years old in 1912. 
It was somewhere around there. 

Mr. Appell. Would you state when he became a citizen ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I can't be definite. Maybe 1924 or 1926, something 
like that, if I am not mistaken. 

Mr. Clardy. Some time prior to your entry to this country ? 

Mr. Gregurek. Yes, I am not sure how long. 

Mr. Clardy. But it was a little while before you came over ? 

Mr. Gregurek. Yes. I don't know how many years. 

Mr. Clardy. So that when you entered this country, he was at that 
time a naturalized citizen ? 

Mr. Gregueek. Yes. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, what has been your employment since 
1933? 

Mr. Gregurek. What do you mean ? 

Mr. Appell. Wliere have you worked ? 

Mr. Gregurek. Since 1933 ? 

Mr. Appell. Yes. Would it be better for you, Mr. Gregurek, if you 
would start in with your present occupation and go back ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I think 1933 I was working in Battle Creek, Mich. 
1934 1 started to work, if I am not mistaken 

Mr. Clardy. Would it be fair to put it this way ? In 1933 and 1934 
or so, you commenced in Battle Creek ? 

Mr. Gregurek. Yes, 1933 or 1934. 

Mr. Appell. How long did you maintain that employment in Battle 
Creek? 

Mr. Gregurek. Since 1942, maybe. 

Mr. Appell. And from 1942 where did you obtain employment? 

Mr. Gregurek. At the Nash-Kelvinator, and a place in Lansing. 

Mr. Appell. How long did you remain with them ? 

Mr. Gregurek. To the end of the war. 

Mr. Appell. And where did you then take employment ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I was unemployed for a little while and then I had 
work at the Fisher Body for one clay, but that was very heavy job and 
too much for me physically So I got a job the next day at the John 
Bean Corp. 

Mr. Clardy. Wliat year again was that ? 

Mr. Gregurek. That was in 1945 or 1946. 

Mr. Clardy. Somewhere within the range of 1945 or 1946 ? 

Mr. Gregurek. It may be later. 

Mr. Clardy. That is your best recollection at the moment ? 

Mr. Gregurek. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. How long did you stay with the Bean Corp. ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I stayed there three months. 

Mr. Clardy. Wliere did you next become employed ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5425 

Mr. Gregurek. Then I got a job at the Precision Boring Tool Co. 

Mr. Clardt, How long were you with them ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I am still 

Mr. Clardt. You are still with them ? 

Mr. Gregurek. Yes. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, I will show you a photograph and ask 
you if you have ever known this individual ? 

Mr. Clardt. Show the photograph to the witness, Mr. Appell. 

(Mr, Appell shows the photograph to witness.) 

Mr. Gregurek. I believe I would decline to answer that question on 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Appell. That is on the grounds that any answer you give may 
tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Gregurek. Yes. 

Mr. Clardt. Mr. Appell, I think we should identify this as being 
exhibit No. 1, introduced at a previous hearing, and being a picture of 
Byron T. Darling. 

Mr. Appell. Yes, sir I was going to do that. Mr. Gregurek, be- 
tween the years 1939 and 1941, did you know any instructor in the 
Michigan State College ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know an instructor whose name was Byron 
Thorwell Darling, who was also known generally by the name of 
"Thor" Darling? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. The photograph which was exhibited to you was a 
photograph of Prof. Byron Thorwell Darling, although taken at a 
much later time — as a matter of fact, in 1953. Have you ever seen 
this individual ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answ^er that for the same reason. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, in 1940 were you a member of the State 
Central Committee of the Communist Party for the State of Mich- 
igan? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. The committee has received testimony to the effect that 
you permitted your home to be used by a group of students from 
Michigan State College for the purpose of their holding meetings. Is 
that true or false ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Were the arrangements for these meetings made by 
Dr. Darling, or Professor Darling ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know a graduate student at Michigan State 
College at that period of time by the name of Charles Gainor? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Charles Gainor testified before this committee that he 
had been a member of the Young Communist League, and that a group 
to which he belonged met at your home in Lansing. Do you deny that 
testimony ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that also on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Another individual identified as having attended the 
meetings at your home was that of Arthur Wright, also known as Art 
Wright. Do you know whether Art Wright attended any meetings 
at your home ? 

48861—54 — pt. 7 3 



5426 COMMUNIST activities in the state of MICHIGAN 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Art Wright was again a student at Michigan State 
College from 1946 to 1948. Did you know Art Wright at that period 
of time ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, if I asked you if you knew someone and 
you didn't, would you say that you didn't ? 

(At this point Mr. Gregurek conferred with Mr. Leitson.) 

Mr. Gregurek. Will you state that question again ? 

Mr. Appell. If I asked you if you knew a person, and you didn't, 
would you say that you didn't ? 

Mr. Gregurek. Yes. 

(At this point Mr. Gregurek conferred with Mr. Leitson.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, did you know one John Burnett Payne? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question— same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. He was an instructor at Michigan State College from 
1947 to 1950. The committee has received information that he visited 
at your house. Is that true or false? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, did you ever know anyone to attend a 
school of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds, the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Appell. Did any relative of yours, to your knowledge, ever 
attend a Communist Party school ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that 

Mr. Clardy. Do you know whether or not a Communist school 
has ever been conducted in the East Lansing area at any time? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that for the same reason. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know whether or not Professor Darling has 
at any time attended such a school ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that on the same grounds, the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Appell. When you were employed at Battle Creek, Mich., were 
you employed by the Wilcox-Rich Co.? 

Mr. Gregurek. Yes. 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever advise anybody at the Wilcox-Rich Co. 
when you were employed there, that your wife had attended a 
Communist Party school? 

Mr. Gregurek. Would you repeat the question, please? 

Mr. Appell. Did you ever advise anybody at the Wilcox-Rich Co. 
when you were employed there, that your wife had attended a Com- 
munist Party school ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know an employee of the Wilcox-Rich Co. by 
the name of Curtis Jefferson ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that for the same reason. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, around May of 1941, according to the 
committee's information, while you were employed at the Wilcox- 
Rich Co. you, on at least one occasion, wore an American flag for an 
apron. Is that true or false ? 

(At this point Mr. Gregurek conferred with Mr. Leitson.) 

]\Ir. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on tlie same grounds. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5427 

Mr. Appell. Did you know Richard Fox ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, have you at any time been a member 
of a State central committee of the Progressive Party ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Clardy, I direct you to answer the question, Witness. That is 
a matter of public record, so I direct j'ou to answer it. 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer the question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, in 1949 the Progressive Party filed with 
the Secretary of State a listing of the membership of the State central 
committee of the Progressive Party, and there was listed as a member 
of the State central committee of the Progressive Party, a Frank 
Gregurek, of 401 Beaver Street, Lansing, Slich. Do you deny the 
listing of the Progressive Party ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds, the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Again the Chair directs you to answer the question. 

Mr. Gregurek. The same answer. 

Mr. Clardy. You mean you refuse again on the same grounds? 

Mr. Gregurek. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. You are Frank Gregurek ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I have identified myself, yes. 

Mr. Appell. You lived at 401 Beaver Street, Lansing, Mich. 

Mr. Gregurek. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Appell. On November 7, 1950, the Progressive Party filed the 
National and State nominees of members of the State central com- 
mittee with the secretary of state of the State of Michigan, in 1950. 
That listed as a member of the State central commitee, Frank Gre- 
gurek, in 1950. Were you on the State central committee at that time ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Clardy. Again, Witness, I direct you to answ^er this question. 

Mr. Gregurek. I don't know what you mean. 

Mr. Clardy. I am issuing a directive to you because in the opinion 
of the Chair, you have no right to use the fifth amendment on ques- 
tions of that sort. The matter is a matter of public record. You will 
be in contempt of Congress. You may consult with your attorney, 
if you wish. 

(At this point Mr. Gregurek conferred with Mr. Leitson.) 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, during the period of 1939 to 1941, there 
was a student at Michigan State College by the name of Robert Bush. 
Is that true ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer this question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Appell. Robert Bush testified before this committee he had 
attended meetings at a house which has been described as your resi- 
dence. Is his testimony true or false ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds, the fifth amendment. 

]Mi'. Clardy. Witness, the committee is informed that Professor 
Darling attended such meetings at your house. Is that evidence we 
have true or false ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds, the fiftli amendment. 



5428 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mi\ Appell. Mr. Gregurek, are you a member of the Communist 
Parly? 

Mr. (iREGUREK. I decline to answer that question on tiie same 
grouads, the filth amendment. 

Mr. Appell. In 1940 were you a member of the Comnnmist Party? 
Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 
Mr. Clardy. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 
Mr. Clardy. Have you ever been a member of the Young Com- 
munist League, or any otlier affiliate of the Communist Party, or 
organization connected with the Communist Party in any form? 

Mr. GpvEGurek. I decline to answer all of the questions and give as 
my reason the same answer, the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever engaged in any espionage activity here 
in the United States, for and on behalf of any foreign power ? 
Mr. Gregurek. No. 

Mr. Clardy. Plave you ever had at any time in your possession 
information concerning the Armed Forces of this Nation which you 
have in turn given to any other unauthorized person ? 

(At this point Mr. Gregurek conferred with Mr. Leitson.) 
Mr. Gregurek. Will you rephrase that question ? 
(Whereupon the reporter reads question to witness.) 
Mr. Clardy. Answer the question. 
Mr. Gregurek. As far as I know, I haven't. 

Mr. Clardy. Is there any question in your mind as to whether you 
have or have not ? 

(At this point Mr. Gregurelv conferred witli Mr. Leitson.) 
Mr. Gregurek. Do you mean did I give some secrets ? 
Mr. Clardy. The question is perfectly plain. You can eitlier decline 
to answer it or you can answer it, one way or another. It doesn't call 
for any further explanation and it will not be given. If you can't 
understand it, your counsel should be able to help you understand it. 
You have three alternatives. To answer "Yes" or "No," or to decline 
to answer. I am leaving that up to you. 

Read the question to him again. Miss Reporter. 
(Whereupon the reporter read question to witness :) 

Have you ever at any time had in your possession information concerning 
the Armed Forces of this Nation which you have, in turn, given to any other 
unauthorized person? 

Mr. Gregurek. No ; I haven't. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you heard the name Professor Darling at any 

time? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Clardy. I must instruct you again to answer this question 
because the matter I have queried you about can be answered without 
any danger of incrimination. I have merely asked you if you have 
■ever heard of the name of Professor Darling ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to 

Mr. Clardy. You decline to answer or you have heard ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. On the same grounds ? 

Mr. Gregurek. Yes, the fifth amendment. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5429 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, have you studied a book entitled "The 
History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union" ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds, the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Appell. Does that text deal with the overthrow of governments 
by force and violence ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Appell. Do you advocate the overthrow of the United States 
Government by force and violence ? 

Mr. Gregurek. No. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever attended a meeting at which anyone 
has advocated that ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever attended such a meeting at which that 
was advocated and which was attended by Professor Darling? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Gregurek, did you know a girl by the name of 
LoisTaft? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that on the same grounds, the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Appell. She became the wife of Art Wright ; did she not ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that on tlie same grounds, the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Appell. Did Lois Taft ever attend any meeting at your home? 

Mr. Gregurek, I decline to answer that on the same gromids of 
the fifth amendment, 

Mr. Clardy. Did she ever attend any meetings at your home in 
the company of Professor Darling ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that for the same reason. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever had any Communist literature of any 
kind in your possession at your home ? 

Ml", Gregurek. I decline to answer that for the same reason. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you have such literature at your home at the pres- 
ent time ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you subscribe to any Communist magazines or 
newspapers ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that question for the same rea- 
son, the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you receiving any such material, magazines, pam- 
phlets, or newspapers which may be sent to you without your having 
entered a formal subscription — in other words, like the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that on the same grounds of 
the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you know what I referred to when I mentioned 
the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever heard of a paper called the Daily 
Worker? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Ck:Vrdy. I instruct you to answer the question. Do you still 
decline? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer on the fifth amendment, yes. 



5430 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Clardy. Are you at present acquainted with any person who 
is known to have been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Gregueek. I decline to answer that question on the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you recently held any meetin^^s or any gather- 
ings at your home with any of the persons who have been named in 
the questions asked you here today ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you met with any of the persons wlio have been 
named in the questions here today and discussed with them the ap- 
])earance of yourself and others before this committee today? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds, the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you ever have a Communist Party book or card? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that on the same grounds, the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you ever see a Communist Party book or card? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds, the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Appell. You knew a Joe Dobrinec of Detroit, Mich. ? 

Mr. Gregurek. You mean Dobrinec ? 

(At this point Mr. Gregurek conferred with Mr. Leitson. ) 

Mr. Gregurek. Yes, he is my father-in-law. 

Mr. Clardy. By the way, have you ever made any contribution of 
any kind in the form of dues or otherwise to the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever in any way acted to collect dues from 
others for and on behalf of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Have you ever heard of an organization called the 
Croatian Fraternal Union ? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Clardy. I direct you to answer that. The question is merely, 
have you ever heard of it, not were you connected with it. 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer it on the same grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Are you a member of the Croatian Fraternal Union? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did your father-in-law manage the Croatian Fraternal 
Hall in Detroit? 

Mr. Gregurek. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Appell. Did you know an Anna Dennis, of Ypsilanti? 

Mr. Gregurek. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any further questions, Mr. Appell? 

Mr. Appell. No, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. You are excused at this time, and the question of when 
the subpena will be lifted and you will be excused finally from it will 
be a matter which I will decide when I get to Washington and report 
to the full committee. 

(Whereupon, at 2 : 45 p. m., Monday, June 8, 1953, the executive 
session was adjourned until further call of the Chair.) 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
STATE OF MICHIGAN— Part 7 

(Lansing) 



TUESDAY, MAY 11, 1954 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Lansing, Mich, 

PUBLIC HEARING 

The subcommittee of tlie Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to recess, at 9 : 31 a. m., in the House of Representatives 
chamber, State Capitol, Hon. Kit Chirdy (acting chairman), presid- 

Committee members present : Representatives Kit Clardy ( acting 
chairman) and Gordon H. Scherer. 

Stall* members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Donald 
T. Appell, investigator; and Mrs. Juliette P. Joray, acting clerk. 

Mr. Clardy. The committee will be in session. 

At the commencement of the hearing this morning the committee 
has a few things it would like to say about the hearing of yesterday 
and about the hearings at Detroit and the things that have followed 
both of those hearings. Following yesterday's hearing the press and 
radio have carried the stories to the effect that President Hatcher and 
those working with him at the University of Michigan have taken 
prompt and effective action in the matter of the three members of the 
faculty of the university, of which I happen to be a graduate. 

The committee thinks that the record should show that we have 
had excellent cooperation and perfect understanding from President 
Hatcher and the administrative officers under him throughout the 
entire period that we have been conducting the investigation. We 
have not, of course, been divulging to them the contents of the files of 
the committee as President Hatcher has correctly stated in the press, 
but we have cooperated with them, and they have with us as far as 
we could do so under the authority conferred upon us. We want at 
this time to express publicly our appreciation of the fact that not only 
has that been true at the University of Michigan, but at the other 
institutions that were mentioned at the hearings in Detroit, and we 
want to emphasize the fact that the committee did not come into Mich- 
igan for the purpose of investigating any of the schools or the schools 
as a whole, the teaching profession, or the teaching unions or, for that 
matter, any organized group. The committee does not take the posi- 
tion that any of these institutions are riddled with Communists or 

5431 



5432 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

are Communist dominated and controlled or anything of that sort. 
We have not set out to discover whether that is true, but from the 
superficial knowledge that inevitably comes to such a committee as 
ours, we are very much of the opinion that it would be decidedly un- 
fair to draw an inference that these educational institutions are domi- 
nated by, controlled by, or badly infiltrated by Communists or the 
Communist Party. The only point that we have been seeking to make 
and that we shall continue to try to make is that there are some in- 
dividual Communists who have succeeded in gaining places on the 
faculties of some of these institutions. 

It has been the purpose of the committee to search out those people 
for the purpose of gathering facts that will enable us to better recom- 
mend to the entire Congress remedial legislation that will, in the long 
run, help these institutions to detect and then rid themselves of such 
influences. Unfortunately the university and the other schools do not 
possess the power of subpena ; they cannot place witnesses under oath 
and subject them to pains and penalties if they should refuse to answer 
questions honestly and truthfully. Where the committee comes in is 
that it is in a position to do that and to lay out before the institutions 
of learning facts that we develop in these hearings. From there on 
out it is up to those institutions to do whatever, in their judgment, is 
wise and proper. We have made no effort to dictate to any of these 
schools, nor will we, as to what they should do following the hearings 
that we may hold. In this instance, of course, the committee is in- 
tensely gratified to know that the heads of the various institutions in 
the State have been alert to the problems our hearings have developed 
and have taken swift, prompt, and I think, effective action The 
people who appeared before us will unquestionably be given a further 
opportunity by those schools to do that which they did not do before, 
that is, state their own case, their own side, fully and freely. If 
in the proceedings that these schools carry forward any contradictory 
matter should develop, that is, contradictory to the facts developed 
by our committee, we may, as we have done before, find it expedient 
to have those same witnesses before us again in the hope that they 
may then cooperate with us. 

I have made this statement because sometimes the erroneous im- 
pression gets abroad that the committee is attempting to do some of 
the harsh things the witnesses were accusing us of yesterday. We have 
no such intention, and we shall not do the things that they have 
charged us with. 

Now, Mr. Tavenner, do you have a witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to call as the first witness Mr. John C. 
Houston. Will you come forward, please. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you Mr. Houston ? 

Mr. Houston. I am, sir. 

Mr. Clardt. Will you hold up your right hand? Do you solemnly 
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help jon God ? 

Mr. Houston. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Houston. I am. 

Mr. Leonard. My name is Archie G. Leonard at 010 Pontiac State 
Bank Building, Pontiac, Mich. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5433 

Mr. Clardt, I think the Chair is moved to remark, as he did yester- 
day, on behalf of the entire committee, that the committee does not 
want anyone to draw any inference whatsoever about any attorney 
that may appear on behalf of any of witnesses called before us. We 
recognize the fact that as attorneys you and I, since all but one of our 
members are attorneys, are charged with a public responsibility and 
that you are here in behalf of your client in response to that. We do 
not want anyone to draw any inferences whatsoever about the fact 
that you have chosen to represent the gentlemen 3^ou do represent. Are 
you ready, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir, 

Mr. Leonard. May I say— —  

Mr. Clardy. Off the record, please. 

( Discussion was held off the record. ) 

Mr. Clardt. I should have inquired of the witness, although it is 
really his responsibility, but if you have any objection to being tele- 
vised, the instructions will be given to keep the camera off of you. Do 
I understand correctly, you do object? 

Mr. Leonard. I do, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. I don't think I need repeat what I have said. 

Are we ready? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir? 

TESTIMONY OP JOHN C. HOUSTON, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

AKCHIE G. LEONAEL 

Mr. Houston. John Houston. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. Will you please state your age, residence, and 
occupation ? 

Mr. Houston. I think I am 28, but I would have to figure it out. 
That is a guess. I live in Pontiac, Mich., and I am an attorney by 
profession. 

Mr. Ta-v^nner. Where were you born? 

Mr. Houston. Dearborn, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your birthday? 

Mr. Houston. June 6, 1925. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been engaged m the practice 
of law ( 

Mr. Houston. Oh, approximately 2i/^ years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere did you receive your legal education? 

Mr. Houston. The LTniversity of Michigan. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you enter the university? 

Mr. Houston. I believe it was in the fall of 1944. 

Mr. Tavenner. You took your academic training at the University 
of jSIichigan, also? 

Mr. Houston. Yes ; I received my bachelor's degree at the univer- 
sity and also my law degree there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what record 
of employment you have had other than the practice of your pro- 
fession ? 

Mr. Houston. For what period of time? 

Mr. Tavenner. Beginning in 1940 — 1944, say. 

48861— 54— pt. 7 4 



5434 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Houston. Well, I don't know. You might consider this part- 
time employment. When I attended the university I lived in a coop- 
erative house there. We did all our own cooking, floor sweeping, house 
management, and so forth and so on. I helped pay my expenses at 
the university. 

Mr. Clardy. You are talking about the period of time when you 
were in school? 

Mr. Houston. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. You are making it sound like my own biography. 

Mr. Houston. Well, there are a good many of us who have to work 
to get our way through school. 

Mr. Clardy. Not a bad way to do it, either. 

Mr. Houston. No ; I think it helps the educational process. 

Aside from that and since I have been practicing, I don't think 
there is anything except I dropped out of school for a year in 1947 
when I wasn't too sure what I wanted to do with my future. I wanted 
to have a chance to think about it pretty thoroughly and make up my 
mind. I worked as a camera salesman most of that period and I 
learned a bit about photography, learned that I would rather be my 
own boss than have somebody ordering me around, and that helped 
me make up my mind after I did. I went back to school and 
fuiished 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that employment in Michigan ? 

Mr. Houston. No, that was in New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you live in New York City ? 

Mr. Houston. Oh, roughly about a year. 

Mr. Tavenner. At what address did you live when in New York 
City? 

Mr. Houston. Oh, Lord, I couldn't tell you. We lived in three or 
four places. Housing was scarce, and it was pretty miserable, what 
there was of it, and we jumped around from pillar to post. I lived 
for a while on Manliattan Island itself. I think it was on 74th Street 
West. I lived for a while somewhere up in the Bronx; lived for a 
while in Brooklyn, near good old Prospect Park. That is about all 
I can think of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Houston, were you present during the course 
of the hearing in Detroit on Friday of last week when Mrs. Bereniece 
Baldwin testified ? 

Mr. Houston. No, sir, I was not. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the course of her testimony she advised the 
committee that she was the dues secretary of the Communist Party 
for the State of Michigan ; that during that period of time she was 
employed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and made reports 
to it of the knowledge which came to her in the performance of her 
duties as dues secretary of the Communist Party. She described her 
official connections with an organization known as the Ealph Neafus 
Club of the Communist Party at the University of JNIichigan. She 
advised the committee that she had written a letter in October of 1947 
to Mr. Fd Shaffer concerning the dues, and that another person, not 
you, replied to that letter. The person was William T. Carter. Then 
at a later date Betty Houston succeeded Carter in that capacity. She 
also testified that it came to her attention as dues secretary of the 
Communist Party that your membership in the Neafus Club of the 
Communist Party was transferred to New York City in 1947 but that 



COIVO'IUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5435 

the transfer had been canceled. I do not propose to ask you any ques- 
tion relating to her testimony regarding your wife. 

My questions will be addressed only as to her testimony regarding 
you. If her testimony is correct, it would indicate that you were in 
1947 a member of the Neafus Club of the Communist Party of the 
University of Michigan. If that be true, you have very definite knowl- 
edge of the operations of that club and its activity. Now, will you 
tell the committee, please, whether or not you were a member of the 
Neafus Club of the Communist Party at the University of Michi- 
gan? 

Mr. Houston. No, sir ; I don't think it is any of your business. I 
shall decline to answer that and any similar questions, and if I may, 
I would like to state my grounds. First, I consider any such ques- 
tion to be a violation — I would like to say this first : my answer is not 
only that I will refuse to answer the question, I will decline to answer 
that question. It is also — and because of my constitutional rights, 
but it is also because I feel that this committee has no right to even 
ask such a question. I don't feel they have tlte right for these rea- 
sons 

Mr. Clardy. May I interrupt you at that point so we can cover this 
as we go along ? 

Mr. Houston. Yes, sir, certainly. 

Mr. Clardy. I think I should tell you since you are also a member 
of the bar of the State of Michigan, that that question has been raised 
continually, repeatedly, and that it has been unanimously rejected, 
not only by the committee, but whenever any test has been made of it. 
I don't want to argue it with you ; I am merely stating it as we go along, 
so you may proceed with your next point. 

Mr. Houston. Well, of course the Supreme Court has never ruled 
directly on the question. I rather feel when they do, they will come 
out with the right decision. 

Mr. Clardy. You are in error there. The Court has ruled on it, 
but it undoubtedly has not been called to your attention and you 
do not know. 

Mr. Houston. I am well aware of the decisions in that matter. 
However, let me discuss my gromids. I don't think we have to dis- 
cuss the Supreme Court too much here. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. Houston. First, I consider this question and the asking there- 
of to be a violation of article I, section 9, clause 3 of the Constitution 
of the United States, which says that no bill of attainder or ex post 
facto law shall be passed, and the Supreme Court of the United States 
has said in United States Reports 303-328, TJ . S. v. Lovett — an act 
recommended by this committee, incidentally — this clearly accom- 
plishes the punishment of named individuals without judicial trial. 
When our Constitution and Bill of Rights was written, our ancestors 
had ample reason to know that legislative trials and punishments 
Avere too dangerous to liberty of free men they envisaged. Secondly, I 
consider the asking of such a question a violation of the basic prin- 
ciples of the separation of powers between the executive, the legis- 
lative, and the judicial functions. 

This committee, in my opinion, is usurping the functions of all 
three when it acts as prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner and as 



■5436 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Thomas Jefferson and James Madison said in the Federalist papers, 
and wisely so, the concentration of legislative, judicial, and executive 
functions in a single body is precisely the definition of tyranny. Third- 
ly, I consider asking this question a violation of the first amendment 
whicli says that Congress shall make no law respecting an establish- 
ment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ; or abridging 
the freedom of speech or of the press; or of the right of the people 
peaceably to assemble and to petition the Government for a redress 
of grievances, and as the Supreme Court of the United States has 
said in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnett (319 U. S. 
f>24), if there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is 
that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in 
politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or for citi- 
zens to confess by word or act their faith therein. 

Fourtlily, I consider the asking of this question a violation of my 
right of privacy against unreasonable search and seizure under the 
iourth amendment which says the right of the people to be secure in 
their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches 
and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon 
probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly de- 
scribing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. 
And as Justice Brandeis has said in Homestead v. United States  

Mr. ScHERER. No warrants are issued in this case ; no papers sought 
to be seized. 

Mr. Houston. This, I would say, if you want to discuss the matter, 
is a pretty broad 

Mr. Clardy. No, we don't want to discuss it. You hasten along and 
state your reasons. We have heard them all many times before, as you 
undoubtedly know. Go ahead. 

Mr. ScHERER. I am surprised at them, though, coming from a 
lawyer. That is what surprises me. 

Mr. Clardy. No, I don't think you are really surprised. 

Mr. ScHERER. No, not considering his background as we know it. 

Mr. Clardy. Go ahead, witness. 

Mr. Houston. I don't know whether I got the citation of this case 
in or not, 277 U. S. 438, Justice Brandeis said, and I quote. 

The makers of our Constitution undertook to secure conditions favorable to 
the pursuit of happiness. They recognized the significance of man's spiritual 
nature, of his feelings, and of his intellects. They knew that only a part of the 
pain, pleasure, and satisfactions of life are to be found in material things. They 
sought to protect Americans in their beliefs, their thoughts, their emotions, and 
their sensations. They conferi-ed as against the Government the right to be let 
alone, the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by civilized 
men. To protect that right every unjustifiable intrusion by the Government upon 
the privacy of an individual, whatever the means employed, must be deemed a 
violation of the fourth amendment. 

Fiftldv 



Mr. Clardy. May I interrupt. How many more pages of that do 

you have ? 

INIr. HousTOX. Oh, I am more than half done. 

Mr. Clardy. You may proceed. 

Mr. Houston. Fifthly, I consider the asking of this question a 
violation of the due process provisions of the fifth amendment which 
says that no person shall be held to ansAver for capital or otherwise in- 
famous crime unless on the presentment or indictment of a grand jury. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5437 

Mr. ScHERER. You haven't been indicted or charged with anything. 

Mr. Clardy. Not yet. 

Mr. ScHERER. ^Yi\y do you raise that question ? 

Mr. Houston. I think it is ver}' significant that the committee is 
operating entirely outside the hekl of crime. I have not been asked 
if I have conunitted a crime. I don't think I will be asked if I com- 
mitted a crime. 

Mr. ScuERER. Vv^hy do you raise that provision then, as a lawyer? 

Mr. Houston. Precisely because I think this committee is completely 
circumventing the Constitution which very carefully set up an estab- 
lished procedui'e for the indictment and trial of persons for crimes, and 
they have precisely attempted to prevent anybody from being charged 
by a legislative inquiry or any other means without following the out- 
lines as laid down in the Constitution. 

Mr. ScHERER. I am shocked that a lawyer should make such an 
argument. It is not applicable to the situation at all, and you know it. 

Mr. Houston. I think it is very applicable. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, to just interrupt you briefly, don't you think 
it truly significant that despite the fact that all of these objections- 
you have thus far raised have been raised continually since the creation' 
of the committee in 1938 and thus far no court in the land has struck 
us down on any of the points you are raising, and yet there have been 
literally hundreds, if not thousands, of witnesses, not only before our 
committee, but committees from the other body seeking the same 
information. I don't ask you to answer anything. You may proceed, 
but I am just pointing out that it is truly remarkable that after all" 
tliese years, some 15 years of raising those same questions, the com- 
mittee has invariably been upheld by the courts. 

Proceed. 

Mr. Houston. I think it is rather signficant that in all those 15 years 
the Supreme Court has avoided direct ruling on 

Mr. Clardy. You are decidedly in error, and I am indeed surprised 
that under oath you would make that statement because you must 
know it is not true. 
Now, proceed. 

Mr. Houston. Very well. I shall continue. 

Mr. Clardy. I am not threatening you with any indictment for 
perjury on that because we have no power to do it, but I am mora 
shocked than my brother here to note that a lawyer who has had the 
beneht of an education at the institution where I received mine would 
go so far overboard as to make that statement. It just isn't true, but 
go ahead. ' 

Mr. Houston. Well, I would like to defend myself on that particu- 
lar charge. In the case of the Plolly wood 10, when it came up directly 
on the first amendment, the Supreme Court refused to rule on it I 
thmk It would have been a good thine: for the country if they had 

Mr. ScHERER. And they served in jail. 

Mr. Houston. Yes, because the Supreme Court refused to rule on 
the question. 

Mr. ScHERER. Because they raised the same question you raised. 
^ulur T'^'^J- T^^^y ^'^ised the same question, but much more offen- 
snely, 1 must say, than you are raising it and yet the court sustained 



5438 COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

the power of tliis committee to do exactly that against which yon are 
l)rotesting, but go aliend. 

Mr. Houston. Well, the court had right of certiorari. 

Mr. Clardy. You might have something to say we haven't heard 
yet so we will hear you out. 

Mr. Houston. Well, I doubt if I have anything startling or original 
here, but we shall proceed. 

Mr. Clardy. Go right ahead. 

Mr. Houston. I was on the fifth amendment here somewhere. I 
rather lost track of my thought. I believe I was in the procedures 
outlined by the Constitution for indictment by grand jury and trial by 
petit jury. No person shall be held to answer for capital or otherwise 
infamous crime unless on presentment or indictment of grand jury, 
nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against liim- 
self nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process 
of law, and the Supreme Court, as the lower courts, have repeatedly 
held that the privilege of the fifth amendment is to protect the innocent 
rather than the guilty. In the language of Twining v. Neio Jersey 
(211 U. S. 78), this protection is to protect the innocent rather than 
shelter the guilty and is a safeguard against heedless, unfounded, or 
tyrannical prosecutions. 

Six, the violation of the due process protections of the sixth amend- 
ment which states that in all criminal prosecutions the accused shall 
enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury of 
the_ State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, 
which district shall have previously been ascertained by law, and to 
be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation, to be con- 
fronted with the witnesses against him, to have compulsory process 
for obtaining witnesses in his favor and to have the assistance of 
counsel for his defense. 

Seventh and finally, I consider the asking of this question a viola- 
tion of the ninth and tenth amendments which state respectively that 
the enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be con- 
strued to deny or disparage others retained by the people, 10, the 
powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution nor 
prohibited by it to the States are reserved to the States respectively or 
to the people. 

These amendments as a group, I feel, indicate the sovereignty of 
the people of the United States from which your powers derive. It 
is the function of the people to tell their Congressmen what to do, 
not the function of Congressmen to tell the people wliat to think 
or what organizations they may or may not join. The Congressmen 
under our Constitution are declared to be the servants, not the masters 
of the people. 

Mr. Clardy. Does that conclude your statement ? 
Mr. Houston. That concludes my reasons. For these reasons I 
shall not answer this question or any similar question. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, may I suggest for the purpose of expediting tlie 
proceeding that when further questions are asked, if you care to de- 
cline to answer, that you merely do so by a brief statement indicating 
you are relying on the grounds already put into the record. 
Mr. Houston. I shall do so, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. I have at this point a couple of remarks I think I 
should make. I noted that as you went along you cited that part of 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5439 

the Constitution wliicli deals with the spiritual as distinguished from 
the material. I don't mind confessing that I am considerably sur- 
prised to find anyone who embraces any part of the Communist doc- 
trine speaking of things spiritual. I don't think it is at all meet for 
anyone who adheres to the tenets of the godless things we call com- 
munism to be bringing in that part of the Constitution, and then you 
did advance one thing, and I want to comment on it — you did bring 
in the fifth amendment, particularly that part which deals with the 
fact that no one shall be comj^elled to be a witness against himself. 
Now, you may continue to invoke all of the other points that you wish, 
but I think in fairness and justice to you I should tell you something 
that you already know, that the committee actually regards the fifth 
amendment as the only solid basis upon which a witness may refuse to 
answer, and then only in the event that it is raised in good faith and 
raised properly to a question that may in some way, if answered, set 
off a chain that would and could possibly result in the witness in- 
criminating himself. If in the opinion of the committee that con- 
sequence could not follow from an answer, we shall direct you to 
answer the question as the possible basis — I say "possible" because 
there is considerable action to be followed — for contempt proceed- 
ings to follow later. 

Now you may proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Taatenner, Mr. Houston, were you issued a Communist Party 
transfer from the Neafus Club of the Communist Party to the State 
of New York which was subsequently canceled ? 

Mr. Houston. Well, it is about the same question, and it will get 
about the same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean you refuse to answer ? 

Mr. Houston. Certainly. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is informed that there was in the 
city of Ann Arbor a group of the Communist Party known as the 
Town Club. The committee desires to know the nature of the com- 
position of that club. Were you transferred to it from the Neafus 
Club of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Houston. I will refuse to answer that question again for the 
same reasons. I won't answer any questions in this area. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Tavenner, so there will be no confusion in this 
record, you are speaking of the club at Ann Arbor. 

Mr. Tavenner. I thought I said Ann Arbor. 

Mr. Clardy. I know, but I want to emphasize it because I happen 
to be a member of the Town Club of Lansing. I do not want any 
confusion. 

Mr. Tavenner. This was the Town Club of the Communist Party. 

It has been a matter of concern to the committee, Mr. Houston, as 
to the nature of the activities of the various members of the Neafus 
Club of the Communist Party within the Universitv of Michigan as 
well as any who may have been a member of the Town Club of the 
Communisl Party in Ann Arbor. Our investigation discloses that 
you were connected one way or another with a number of organiza- 
tions during the period of your work at the University of Michigan 
which the committee desires to question you about. We understand 
that there was a chapter on the campus of the [National] Lawyers 

(At this point Mr. Houston conferred with Mr. Leonard.) 



5440 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Tavenner. A membership report of student organizations- 
covering the period of 1948-49 hied with the university authorities, 
a photostatic copy of which I have before me, shoAvs the name of John 
C. Houston as a member of that organization. Were you a member 
of it. 

Mr. Houston. What is this? Of which is this now ? 

Mr. Tavenner. National Lawyers Guild. 

(At this point Mr. Houston conferred with Mr. Leonard.) 

Mr. Houston. Well, this is a little back in my dim, dark, distant 
past. 

Mr. SciiERER. Dark, did you say ? 

Mr. Houston. It is an expression. Congressman. I trust you have 
heard it before. Nothing, I don't think, can be insinuated from the 
j)hraseology. I shall decline to answer that question upon the reasons 
that I have previously stated. 

Mr. Clardt. The Chair directs that you answer that question. 

Mr. Houston. Well, I can't even be sure. I think I will just play 
it safe. I don't think the committee has the right to ask that ques- 
tion, and I think I would rather stick with my constitutional grounds 
as previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. What do you mean, you will play it safe ? 

Mr. Houston. Well, 1 just don't feel that my activities are any of 
the committee's business. I didn't come up here to fence with you 
about them. I told you initially I wouldn't answer any questions of 
this sort. Whether or not I was a membsr of this organization is really 
none of your business, and I would just rather not answer questions 
of this sort. 

Mr. Clardy. We are not inquiring about membership in the Com- 
munist Party. We are asking 3'ou, Were you a member of the Na- 
tional Lawyers Guild ? 

Mr. Houston. I am aware of that. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, do you apprehend that by admitting member- 
ship in that organization you could, by some quirk of circumstance, 
be incriminating yourself ? 

Mr. Houston. No, I apprehend that this committee has labeled this 
among a couple of thousand other organizations as being subversive. 
My opinions on probably a good number of these organizations would 
disagree with yours violently, but at any rate, since you have made the 
proclamation and I can't discuss the activities of these organizations 
in a full and fair and free manner here Avith you, I will just refuse to 
admit any associations with any political organization. 

Mr. Clardy. Now you have clearly stated that you are not invoking 
the fifth amendment because 3^ou say that there is no danger of in- 
crimination. 

Mr. Houston. Oh, no, sir, I did not say that. Under Twining 
against New Jersey, which specifically states that this privilege is for 
the innocent, not for the guilty, and as to 

Mr. Clardy. Hold it just a moment. 

Mr. Houston. These heedless and unwarranted prosecutions, I in- 
voke the privilege. 

Mr. Clardy. Go back. I want the record read, that part of his 
statement in which he first started answering my question. 

(The question and answer were read by the reporter as follows :) 

Well, do you apprehend that by admitting membership in that organization 
you could, by some quirk of circumstance, be incriminating yourself? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5441 

Answer. No, I apprehend that this committee has labeled this among a couple 
of thousand other organizations as being subversive. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, the point I am making is, you used the word 
"no." I obviously was interrrogating you as to whether or not you 
were invoking the fifth amendment, and you said "no." Now, is it 
your desire to change that "no" at this time? I don't want to trick 
you, but you definitely and clearly left the fifth amendment out. Do 
you want to invoke the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Houston. We seem to be doing a lot of fencing here. 

Mr. Clardy. No, there is no fencing about it. I am in dead earnest, 
sir. Do you care to invoke the fifth amendment in your reply to my 
question ? 

Mr. Houston. I care to invoke the entire number of reasons for my 
refusal which I have previously stated. I don't restrict it to any 
particular one or any part of one. 

Mr. Clardy. But you do invoke the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Houston. Of course. 

Mr. Clardy. Very well. You did not the first time. 

Mr. Houston. Well, it was my intention to. These questions are a 
little vaguely stated, and I have difficulty making the answers in a 
proper form. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, I think I must comment, you have had enough 
education to have understood that very simple question of mine, but 
we will let that pass. Go ahead. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee's investigation in Los Angeles dis- 
closed the existence of a Communist Party cell restricted entirely to 
members of the legal profession. The evidence showed that that group 
of the Communist Party endeavored to control the National Lawyers' 
Guild local chapter in the city of Los Angeles and the extent of its 
success. What the committee desires to know here is, to wliat extent 
did the Communist Party succeed in infiltrating the National Lawyers' 
Guild chapter in the University of Michigan. Will you tell the com- 
mittee to what extent it was successful, if you know ? 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question upon the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you lean forward, please? 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question for the same 
reasons and upon the same grounds as previously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. May I interrupt a moment. There was one other 
comment I wanted to make on the answer to my question. You said 
you would not have an opportunity to fully answer. I want to assure 
you that you do have. Even if you are the only witness we have here 
today, you have all the time and all the opportunity you may desire 
to state your position fully because I do not want you to say when 
you leave this hearing room that you were confronted with questions 
you didn't have an opportunity to answer, and you couldn't state your 
position. We have issued no statements about you, we have said 
nothing about you. Our first disclosure to the public concerning you 
comes with the asking of these questions, and you have the simul- 
taneous opportunity to defend yourself if you think you are being 
charged with something. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Houston. Congressman, that last statement was not true. I 
don't know who gave the public a good bit of information, but some- 
body or other did, and I assume it came from this committee. 

48861— 54— pt. 7 5 



5442 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Clardy. Well, your assumption is utterly without foundation. 
In every instance — and I suspect it is true in this case — tlie press have 
obtained their information from statements issued in advance of the 
hearing by the witnesses themselves, and I strongly suspect that you, 
yourself, have issued a statement to somebody or have talked to some- 
one because the publicity that came out sounded suspiciously like that 
of the other 14 or 15 witnesses who have run to the press about their 
identity and about the hearing. 
Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr, Houston. I have not issued a statement. Any information 
which has come out so far has come out solely from this committee 
or its friendly informers. 

Mr. Clardy. That is utterly false, sir, and I am very sure you know 
it is false. Now, will you proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Houston, was there in existence on the campus 
of the University of Michigan an organization of the Progressive 
Party ? 

Mr. Houston. Well, as I have previously stated, I won't answer any 
questions in this area. I will decline to answer this one upon the 
reasons previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee has received evidence indicating 
that Communist Party members were directed to become members 
of the Progressive Party and to take a leading role in the activities 
of that party. I want to find out the extent to which that plan was 
put into effect in an organization at the University of Michigan, if it 
is true that they did put such a plan into effect. 

(At this point Mr. Houston conferred with Mr. Leonard.) 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of Membership Re- 
port of Student Organizations for the summer semester 1948-49, the 
organization being entitled "Wallace Progressives." I will ask you 
to examine the document and look at lines 16 and 28, on the first page 
and line 15 on the second page, and ask you to state the names that 
you see there. What is the name of the person who is a member of 
that organization on line 16? 

(At this point Mr. Houston conferred with Mr. Leonard.) 

Mr. Houston. I think, as you are well aware, INIr. Tavenner, all 
nniversity-recognized organizations, that is, organizations recognized 
by the governing body, whichever governing body it may be, of the 
University of Michigan, required at the time I attended school, and 
I suppose still do require, that all members of the organization be 
listed and filed with the 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Houston. Dean of men's office, something like that. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that is that list ? 

Mr. Houston. This list that you have given me here, so far as I 
know I have never seen it before, but at any rate, it purports to be an 
official University of Michigan offices of students affairs membershi]) 
report of student organizations. It is a matter of public record. It 
wasn't too hard for your investigators to dig up, I don't suppose. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, if you will just answer my question, please. 
Wiat is the name appearing on line 16 ? 

Mr. Houston. The name appearing on line number 16 is one Hous- 
ton, John. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is the name appearing on line 23 ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5443 

Mr. Houston. One Alvin N. Lippitt — Lippitt, Alvin N., excuse me. 

Mr. Tavenner, Will you spell the name, please? 

Mr. Houston. L-i-p-p-i-t-t. 

INfr. Tavenner. Now will you look on the second sheet and tell us 
the name appearing on line 15 ? 

Mr. Houston. Line 15 is one Terrelo, James R. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you read that name, please ? 

Mr. Houston. Terrelo. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell it? 

Mr. Houston. T-e-r-r-e-1-o. It is a matter of public record. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what was your official position with that 
orf!^anization at that time? 

Mr, Houston. 1 will decline to answer that question upon the 
grounds previously state. 

Mr. Tavenner. Weren't you the treasurer ? 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were not the other two persons named, that is, Mr. 
Lippitt and Mr. Terrelo, the officials of that organization ? 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question, too. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you say you decline ? 

Mr. Houston. Yes, sir. I have stated before that I don't care to 
answer any questions, and I feel the politics 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all right. I just didn't hear you. 

Mr. Houston. O. K. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were those two individuals, Lippitt and Terrelo, 
known to you as members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the committee for civil 
rights while in attendance at the University of Michigan ? 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question. 

(At this point Mr. Houston conferred with Mr. Leonard.) 

Mr. ScHERER. Witness, this isn't funny. 1 have been watching. 
You have been laughing and smirking continually, and I want the 
record to shoAv this, as part of your contemptuous attitude toward this 
investigation of this committee. 

Mr. Houston. I hardly think I have a contemptuous attitude. I 
have answered the questions fairly fully, more so than they deserve, 
perhaps. I would like to make my position clear, incidentally. I 
mean no disrespect for Congress, the institution of or most of the 
Members thereof. I have for a long time and still do object to this 
committee and its unconstitutional actions. 

Mr. Sr.HERER. A lot of Communists object to the committee. 

Mr. Houston. There are an awful lot of people in this country 
that object to it. I wouldn't restrict it to any one group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of an organization known as 
the Interracial Association while you were in attendance at Michigan 
University ? 

(At this point Mr. Houston conferred with Mr. Leonard.) 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you also decline to answer questions relating 
to your activities or the activities of that organization ? 



5444 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Houston. Well, this is a long time ago. I don't know if I could 
answer those if I wanted to. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you remember whether or not Marvin H. Glad- 
stone was a member ? 

(At this point Mr. Houston conferred with Mr. Leonard.) 

Mr. Houston. Well, this is not discussing the activity of the or- 
ganization. I don't care to discuss individuals involved. I decline 
to answer that. 

Mr. Clardy. The Chair directs that you answer that question be- 
cause as an attorney you must well know that it does not afford you 
any protection whatsoever when we ask you a question about some- 
one else. 

(At this point Mr, Houston conferred with Mr. Leonard.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Jack A. Lucas 

Mr. Clardy. Pardon me. I have directed him to answer. 

(At this point Mr. Houston conferred with Mr. Leonard.) 

Mr. Houston. Would you please identify the person named? 

Mr. Clardy. I think you know the gentleman. The name was Mar- 
vin H. Gladstone. 

Mr. Houston. Has Mr. Gladstone been declared subversive ? 

Mr. Clardy. Answer the question, witness. 

Mr. Houston. Well, I think it is only fair that you should identify 
him on the record. 

Mr. Clardy. I think you know the gentleman — in fact I know you 
know the gentleman. Now, don't fence with us ; answer the question. 

Mr. Houston. Well, in view of your attitude, then I will decline 
to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Ed Shaffer a member of that organization ? 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, you know who Ed Shaffer is, do you not? 

Mr. Houston. I have read about him enough in the paper lately, 
so I have a pretty good idea. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, you actually know him, do you not? 

Mr. Houston. Well, I told you, I am not going to discuss individ- 
uals or associations here. I don't care to discuss 

Mr. Clardy. Haven't you associated with him ? 

Mr. Houston. You are making an assumption. I will decline to 
answer that. 

Mr. Clardy. You, as a matter of f act^ — you didn't let me finish the 
question — actually associated with him in Communist Party circles 
over a long period of time ? 

Mr. Houston. This is an even bigger assiunption than the last one. 
I will decline to answer. 

Mr. Scherer. Isn't that assumption of Mr. Clardy's true? 

Mr. Houston. I decline to answer that one, too ; same question, same 
answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was James Terrelo, the same person referred to in 
connection with the Progressive organization, a member of this group ? 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were the objectives of this organization? 

•(At this point Mr. Houston conferred with Mr. Leonard.) 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5445 

Mr. Houston. As I previously stated, Mr. Tavenner, that was a 
long time ago. I can make what is probably a moderately accurate 
guess, but I can't tell you definitely. The Interracial Association — 
was that the name of it ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Houston. The Interracial Association of the University of 
Michigan, as I recall it, was an organization, a voluntary association 
of students at the University of Michigan, which was organized for 
the purpose of enlarging minority rights, bringing Negro citizens of 
this country up to full and complete, what we might term, first-class 
citizenship, to eliminate segregation and discrimination, not only in 
a certain sense in the university itself, but also in the town in which 
we live, and to assist as best we could with our limited facilities any 
persons of a minority who were in trouble through being of a minority 
throughout the United States. It was also for the purpose of bring- 
ing together students of different races, creeds, colors, nationalities. 
I have found over the course of my life that if you get to know people 
from different countries, different nationalities, different races, differ- 
ent religions, you get a much better understanding of their cultures. 
You like them more as individuals, and you learn to appreciate the 
contributions of their cultures to our Nation and to the world as a 
whole. This, as I say, is only a guess, but I presume it is a fairly good 
one, as to the activities of that organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was the organization formed ; do you recall ? 

Mr. Houston. I have no idea. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you take part in the formation of it? 

(At this point Mr. Houston conferred with Mr. Leonard.) 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. To what extent was the Communist Party responsi- 
ble for the organization of that group ? 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question, too. 

Mr. Tavenner. To what extent was the Communist Party respon- 
sible for the initiation of its programs and its procedures ? 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what the objec- 
tives of the Committee for Civil Eights were, if you know ? 

Mr. Houston. Well, I hestitate to act as spokesman for any of these 
organizations and probably a rather unqualified one. I can probably 
make a poor guess if you want, but that is all it would be. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you, weren't you its secretary in 1949 ? 

Mr. Houston. I will start where we were. I think I declined to 
answer about that organization before. I will do the same thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. I erroneously referred to you or asked you a ques- 
tion on the assumption that you were its treasurer, but I will ask you 
now, were you its secretary ? 

Mr. Houston. Well, I don't suppose the officership — I will decline 
as treasurer as well as secretary or vice versa, whichever way it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you issued in 1946 for the year 1947 Com- 
munist Party card number 69464 ? 

Mr. Houston. I didn't hear the first part of that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I say, were you issued in the year 1946 the 1947 
Communist Party card number 69464 ? 



5446 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Houston. I think that is rather clearly out of your field, and 
I will decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Clardy. Is it your conception that this committee has no 
authority under the Constitution and the statutes to inquire about 
every phase of communism, including the number of a party card 
that someone may possess, in this instance the card which you pos- 
sessed ? Are you making 

Mr. Houston. Are you testifyiuir here against me? 

Mr. Clardy. I am asking you, are you making the absurd conten- 
tion that the Congress of the United States, representing the people 
of this Nation, have no right to explore that far into the Communist 
conspiracy to destroy us ? 

Mr. Houston. Well, you are making kind of an absurd assumption 
when you say 

Mr. Clardy. Wliat is absurd about that, sir? "Wliat is absurd? 

Mr. Houston: Let me state my position. I think that this com- 
mittee has no right, and essentially under the first amendment has no 
right, to express into the area of associations, of political opinions at 
all. This has nothing to do, so far as I am concerned, with the Com- 
munist Party, although that has theoretically been one of the sub- 
jects of your investigation. 

Mr. ScHERER. It has nothing to do with the Communist Party, 
whether or not you held a party card ? 

Mr. Houston. I am answering the question as to my opinion of what 
rights this committee has. Let us take them one at a time here. I 
don't think that this committee under the Const^itution has the riglit 
to put a damper on freedom of inquiry, and I think it is dangerous to 
tlie country to do so. The only way a democracy can properly func- 
tion is by allowing full, free, and fair discussion of issues, and I think 
the people of this country are wise enough to come to the right con- 
clusion if they are allowed that full, free and full discussion. 

Mr. Clardy. I must interrupt you. Do you think if the Communist 
Party had control here as it does in Poland, for example, that there 
would-be any allowance of a free discussion of the kind going on right 
here today? Don't you realize and understand that the rights you 
are pretending to plead for have been utterly suppressed in all of 
the nations under Communist domination? 

Mr. Houston. Well, I can't say 

Mr. Clardy. Your answer has a hollow sound to me, sir. I think 
we will ask you to proceed with the questions. It is obvious the wit- 
ness doesn't care to answer that question fairly. Proceed. 

Mr. Houston. I would like to say this, if I may, in answer to that 
last statement, while I can't qualify as a spokesman for the Communist 
Party of Poland. 

Mr. Clardy. I think you can. 

Mr. Houston. I think the American people have certain rights in 
their Constitution that I think are being trampled on here. As an 
attorney I feel it is my duty as perhaps a leader of the community, as 
most attorneys are, I think the entire bar should rise up against the 
violations of our constitutional rights. They have long been the 
leaders in the defense of the liberties of the people. It is a tradition 
that seems away back from early England, and I hope to see the bar 
again rise up in this country in defense of the Constitution. I don't 
jokingly urge these arguments on you. I seriously think that the 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5447 

Constitution means what it says, and I think this committee is in ^ross 
violation of it, and for that reason I don't care to cooperate with the 
overthrow, to my way of thiniving, of this Constitution. 

Mr. Clardy. No, you would rather overthrow the Government, 
wouldn't you? 

Mr. Houston. I don't care to overthrow the Government, either. I 
am an attorney, I am an officer of the court, I have sworn to uphold 
this Constitution, and uphold it 1 will. 

Mr. Clardy. You are doing it in a very strange way, I must say. 

Mr. Houston. Well, it is a matter of opinion. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have asked you various questions relating to Com- 
munist Party affiliations by you at certain times and places. Have you 
been a memoer of the Communist Party at any other time and place 
than those mentioned ? 

Mr. Houston. Well, I told you earlier, I won't discuss my political 
affiliations. I won't discuss about back then or now, and you can ask 
the question 10 difl'erent ways, and you will get 10 same answers. I 
will decline, if it is not clear. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Were you acquainted at the University of Michigan 
with a person by the name of Francis X. Crowley, C-r-ow-]-e-y2 

Mr. Houston. Would you identify the individual, please? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking you to identify him. 

Mr. Houston. Well, I am asking you to identify him. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think I can identify him to the extent that he wa3 
a student at the University of Michigan. Does that refresh your 
recollection? 

Mr. Houston. There were about 20,000 of them. It doesn't help 
much. 

Mr. Clardy. Do I understand by that answer you are saying you did 
not know him ? 

Mr. Houston. No, I am asking the committee to identify him. I 
think it is only fair under the circumstances. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, you know full well that you did know the 
gentleman. Now why fence with us? 

Mr. Houston. Do you refuse to identify him ? 

Mr. Clardy. We have identihed him. He was in your circle. 

Mr. Houston. Well, all right. Now that you have identified him OP 
at least you think you have, I will decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Scherer? 
(At this point Mr. Houston conferred with Mr. Leonard.) 

Mr. Scherer. Witness, isn't it a fact that you presently — I don't 
mean as of this moment — that you presently regularly confer secretly 
with the high functionaries of the Communist Party in Pontiac? 

Mr. Houston. You are making an awfully big assumption there. 

Mr. Scherer. Well, is my assumption correct? 

Mr. Clardy. You have an opportunity to deny it if it is not true, sir. 

Mr. Houston. Well, if you want to testify against me, you take it 
to a grand jury, and we will answer the question. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, that is a pretty good suggestion, but we are try- 
ing to get the answer here today. We are giving you the opportunity, 
if it is not true, to spread on the record and before the public the fact 
that it is not so. Now proceed. 



5448 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. ScHERER. Isn't it a fact that you are the leader of the under- 
ground of t] le Communist Party in this area ? 

Mr. Houston. I will decline to answer that question. I have noticed 
throughout these hearings that you start all these somewhat ridiculous 
questions by "Isn't it a fact," which sounds rather devastating, but I 
think the people can see it for what it is. 

Mr. ScHERER. Well, is it a fact? Am I in error when I make that 
statement ? Have I stated an untruth ? 

Mr. Houston. Well, as I have said before, you have no right to 
ask 



Mr. ScHERER. Will you answer that question ? 

Mr. Houston. You have no right to ask such questions, and I will 
refuse to answer them. I am here upholding the Constitution, and 
whether you don't like the Constitution or not, I do, and I will stick 
by it. I would like to say, perhaps, Mr. Scherer 

Mr. Clardy. Pardon me. There is no question pending at tlie mo- 
ment. 

Mr. Houston. All right. 

Mr. Scherer. I have nothing further. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness dismissed. Call your next witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Richard K. Fox. 

Mr. Clardy. Hold up your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that 
the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Fox. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. It has been suggested that we have a few minutes recess 
to give Miss Reporter a little rest, so we will take a 5-minute break. 

(Whereupon, at 10 : 41 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 10:46 a. m.) 

(Whereupon, at 10: 52 a. m., the hearing was reconvened.) 

Mr. Clardy. The committee will be in session. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

TESTIMONY OF RICHARD FOX 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Fox. First, I would like to state that I have had the privilege 
of consulting with Pierce, Planck and Ramsey in relation to thig 
hearing. 

Mr. Clardy. I couldn't hear you, witness. 

Mr. Fox. I would like to state that I have had the privilege of 
consulting with Mr. Martin Pierce of Pierce, Planck, and Ramsey in 
this town, 1808 Olds Tower Building. 

Mr. Clardy. You have had the privilege of consulting with him, 
you say ? 

Mr. Fox. That is right. Under the rule of the 

Mr. Clardy. Is he present and do you desire to have him represent 
you ? Is that what you mean ? 

Mr. Fox. I understand that an attorney cannot represent me, can 
only advise me, and I have had that advice previous to this hearing. 

Mr. Clardy. Then you do not request that there be any postpone- 
men of your appearance so you may obtain an attorney. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5449 

Mr. Fox. I would like to point out that I have been unemployed 
for 18 weeks, and I have no money to pay for an attorney, and this is 
the best way that I could see to get consultation. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, at any rate, you do not have counsel present 
here today. 

Mr. Fox. That is correct. I would also like to present a motion. 
He advised me to present a motion under the fourth amendment, pro- 
testing the service of this subpena. Your agent broke into my father's 
house where I was working at the time, and he did not identify me at 
any time, and he did not identify himself. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, it is most unfortunate that you made that 
remark because you have issued a public statement to that effect. 
I must tell you now that in view of what you have said, it will be 
necessary for this committee to contradict each and every word that 
you said in that regard 

Mr. Fox. That is your privilege. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing) . Through the mouths of at least two sepa- 
rate witnesses before the hearing is concluded, one of which is in Flint 
at the present time, so it will be at a subsequent hearing 

Mr. Fox. There was no witness to that service. 

Mr. Clardy. Hold up. I read your statement in the press. I want 
to tell you now that it is utterly false, and the statement you made 

Mr. Fox. You're a liar [Profanity deleted] . 

Mr. Clardy. The statement you made is false, and therefore, hav- 
ing chosen to make the statement that you did, the committee has no 
alternative. We did not ask you a question. You volunteered the 
statement. We have no alternative 

Mr. Fox. I presented a motion. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). But to present evidence to contradict 
you 

Mr. Fox. It would be perjured evidence. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). Which may result before the Attorney 
General is through with a prosecution for perjury. Now, I ask you 
from here on out 

Mr. Fox. You better inform your agents that they commit 
perjury 

Mr. Clardy. Will you cease interrupting — because you may find 
yourself also subject to an action for contempt. Now I ask you to 
weigh each and every word carefully 

mr. Fox. I have. 

Mr. Clardy (continuing). From here on out, so that you may not 
aggravate that which you have started. I am indeed sorry that you 
chose voluntarily to do what you did, because the committee had no 
intention whatever of even so much as referring to the published 
statement in the Lansing State Journal. 

Having brought it up and having made the statement you did 

Mr. Fox. I beg to differ. I didn't see it in the Lansing State Jour- 
nal or any other paper. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, if you do not cease interrupting and saying 
things when a question is not pending, I must warn you that it will, 
in itself, be contempt of the Congress of the United States, which 

Mr. Fox. Is that under the rules of procedure? 

Mr. Clardy. Which we have the honor to represent. One more 
time, sir, and I am afraid there will have to be something drastic done 



5450 COIVIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

to suppress you, even to the use of physical force if that becomes 
necessary. 

Mr. Fox. That is a characteristic. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, remain silent, sir. 

Will the officer come forward and stand beside this witness during 
the interrogation ? Where is Andy ? Will you come forward, please, 
and seat yourself beside the witness. It is obvious that we shall have 
a modest amount of difficulty in restraining him, but we are prepared. 

Now, Mr. Tavenner, will you proceed to ask a question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, sir? 

Mr. Fox. Kichard Fox. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have a middle initial, Mr. Fox? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Many of you are present here today who did not have 
the benefit of hearing the Chair's announcement with respect to dem- 
onstration. It is absolutely prohibited because you are in the presence 
of an arm of the Congress of the United States. It is imperMtive that 
there be no demonstration, either for or against anybody connected 
with this proceeding. I am sure that most of you present did not 
know that we have that inflexible rule. I do issue the warning now 
because I am sure you will observe it from here on out. 

Now, I direct the witness to answer the last question. It has to 
do solely with whether or not you have a middle initial. 

Mr. Fox. My attorney informs me that I merely have to identify 
myself to this committee, and that is the name that appears on th** 
subpena, and that is exactly what I have done. 

Mr. Clardy. You are then refusing to answer that question ? 

Mr. Fox. I am refusing to answer on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. You state that you have sought the advice of coun- 
sel. If during the course of the hearing you desire to confer with 
counsel again, I am certain the committee will authorize it to be done. 

Mr. Fox. Thank you. 

Mr. Clardy. That is a standing rule and procedure by the committee 
and will be permitted if the witness makes that request. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Fox ? 

Mr. Fox. I was born in Brookfield Township, Oakland County, 
Mich., in 1921, March 31. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your present occupation? 

Mr. Fox. My present occupation is that of a carpenter. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of a carpenters' union? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct the witness to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes ; I direct the witness to answer that question. 

Mr. Fox. I don't believe that is a proper question. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been employed or have followed 
the occupation of a carpenter ? 

Mr. Fox. Off and on since 1940. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
educational training has been ? 

Mr. Fox. I was educated in the public schools of Michigan. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did that include Michigan State College? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5451 

Mr, Fox. I refuse to answer that question on tlie ground of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. I direct the witness to answer that last question. 

Mr. Fox. I still refuse. 

Mr. Tavknnek. You stated, Mr. Fox, that an investigator for this 
committee broke into you home. Did I understand that you made that 
statement ? Do I understand correctly that that is what you said ? 

Mr. Fox. That is correct. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you say into your home or your father's home? 

Mr. Fox. I didn't understand the question. Will you please repeat 
the question ? 

Mr. Clardy. I think you originally said your father's home, and I 
don't want to have you 

Mr. Fox. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you or any member of your family meet the 
committee investigator at the door ? 

JNIr. Fox. That I do not know. 

Mr. Clardy. Were you in the room that the front door opens into ? 

Mr. Fox. No, I was not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you served at any time in the Armed Forces 
of the United States ? 

Mr. Fox. I served for six years in the Armed Forces of the United 
States. 

Mr. Tavenner. What branch of the service ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer on the ground of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, now, witness, I must direct you because it cer- 
tainly cannot incriminate you to identify the branch of the service 
in which you did serve. 

Mr. Fox. I beg to differ with you. My attorney informs me that 
any question that I deem would lead to questions that might place 
me in jeopardy I do not have to answer under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, I think I should tell you, having known Barnard 
Pierce for many years as one of the ablest lawyers in the State of 
Michigan, I am very confident that he did not advise you to refuse to 
answer that question. He is too good a constitutional lawyer. 
Proceed Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you return from your 6 years of service 
in the Armed Forces ? 

Mr. Fox. Would you please make that question a little more specific ? 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you return to private life from service 
in the; Armed Forces ? 

Mr. Fox. In the spring of 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you then take up your residence? 

Mr. Fox. At that time the family was in the process of moving, 
and I don't recall exactly where I did take up my residence. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you enter Michigan State College as a 
student ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground previously 
stated. 

Mr. Clardy. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Fox. I still refuse. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become a member of any veterans' organ- 
ization after the completion of your service in the Armed Forces of 
the United States ? 



5452 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. ScHERER. I think you should direct the witness again to answer 
that question. 

Mr. Clardt. I so direct. 

Mr. Fox. I still refuse. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become a member of any veterans' organ- 
ization on the campus of Michigan State College ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived in Detroit at any time ? 

Mr. Fox. I don't recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. You do not know whether you have lived in Detroit ? 

Mr. Fox. It all depends on what the counsel means by "lived." 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did you reside there ? 

Mr. Fox. I may have when I was a child. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you worked there ? 

Mr. Fox. I probably did ; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When ? 

Mr. Fox. Oh, various periods ; 1940, 1939, 1938. 

Mr. ScHERER. Where did you live when you worked in Detroit! 

Mr. Fox. I probably lived in Troy Township. 

Mr. ScHERER. Where is that with relation to the city of Detroit! 

Mr. Fox. That is in the neighborhood of Bloomfield Hills. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you either reside or work in Detroit at any time 
since 1950? 

Mr. Fox. I don't have any record of my employment, and I can't 
say truthfully just whether I did or not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you attended any meeting of the Communist 
Party in the city of Detroit since 1950 ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds on the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Harold Mikkelsen ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Harold Mikkelsen was a witness before the 
Committee on Un-American Activities in Detroit on Tuesday of last 
week. He testified that while a member of the Communist Party he 
was employed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation to work for it 
within the Communist Party, and this he did for a period of years, 
making constant reports to the Federal Bureau of Investigation of 
the matters which came to his attention. During the course of his 
testimony before the committee he identified you as a person who 
attended closed Communist Party meetings in the city of Detroit. 
Was he telling the committee the truth or not ? 

Mr. Fox. Are you asking for my opinion ? 

Mr. Clardt. No; we are asking you to merely state a fact as to 
whether that was true or false. 

Mr. Tavenner. Insofar as it concerns you ; yes. 

Mr. Fox. I cannot corroborate the testimony of paid informers. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, let me ask you the question 



COMlVIUlSriST ACTIVITIES EST THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5453 

Mr. Clardy. Pardon. May I interrupt? Were you present in De- 
troit at the time Mr. Mikkelsen testified ? I know you were there dur- 
ing the proceedings, but did you hear his testimony ? 

Mr. Fox. On what date was that ? 

Mr. Clardy. My question is, Did you hear his testimony ? In other 
words, were you there and present at the time Mr. Mikkelsen testified ? 

Mr. Fox. I don't quite — where do you mean ? Where was I ? 

Mr. Clardy. Were you within the sound of the voice of the witness ? 

Mr. Fox. I am afraid you are trying to entrap me in some legal 
mumbo Jumbo, and I cannot quite understand the area 

Mr. Clardy. Well, we will calm your fears. Were you at any time 
sitting in the courtroom at Detroit, room 859 in the Federal Building, 
while this committee was conducting hearings there last week? 

Mr. Fox. Is this the same question ? 

Mr. Clardy. You heard the question ; now answer it. 

Mr. Fox. What relation has it got to this stool pigeon ? 

Mr. Clardy. That is not the question. Now answer it or decline, 
as you wish. You have the alternative. 

Mr. Fox. I believe that after I got my subpena I decided to attend 
the hearings and just see what kind of a spectacle it was, and I did, 
I believe, attend one hearing. I believe you got pictures of that. 

Mr. Clardy. Was the witness Mikkelsen on the stand when you 
attended ? 

Mr. Fox. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, we finally got it. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. ScHERER. No ; you didn't get it. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, I got what I was after. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend closed meetings of the Communist 
Party in Detroit at any time after January 1, 1950 ? 

Mr. Fox. Would you please repeat that date ? 

Mr. Ta\'enner. At any time after January 1, 1950. 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds pre- 
viously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend closed meetings of the Communist 
Party in Detroit at any time prior to January 1, 1950 ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend any meeting of the Communist 
Party at Michigan State College? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name 
of Paul Ross Baker ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the ground previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 



5454 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Clardy. Have 5'ou ever attended Communist Party meetings 
in the city of Lansing? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you acquainted with a Goldie Gregurek ? 

Mr. F'ox. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever attended a Communist Party meet- 



mg- 



Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Clardy. At her residence? Answer the question. 

Mr. Fox. I believe I have answered it sufficiently. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you declining to answer ? 

Mr. Fox. I am declining to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. The person who accompanied you to the hearings at 
Detroit was known as Goldie Gregurek, was she not ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. Clardy. Isn't it a matter of fact, witness, that you have attended 
frequent Communist Party meetings at the residence I mentioned in 
the prior question ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question or any questions of such 
character. 

Mr. Cl\rdy. Any questions, Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. How intimate was your acquaintance with Steve 
Nelson, the notorious Communist? 

Mr. Fox. I don't quite understand what you mean by that ques- 
tion, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. How well did you know him ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Scherer. Isn't it a fact that you knew him very well ? 

Mr. Fox. I refu=!e to answer that question. 

Mr. Scherer. Were you present at his trial ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Scherer. Isn't it a fact that you were present at his trial ? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question. I might add that Kep- 
resontati ve Schemr knows that answer very well. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes; I think you may assume that the committee 
does possess a considerable knowledge about you and your activities; 
3'ou are right there. 

Mr. Fox. I assure you there is nothing derogatory in my activities. 

Mr. Scherer. Why don't you tell us then about your associations 
witli S^^eve Nelson 

Mr. Fox. I have no intention 

Mr. Scherer (continuing). If there is nothing derogatory about 
them? 

Mr. Fox. I don't have any intention to lend mvself to this political 
inquisition and the campiign of Representative Clardy. I was brought 
here under protest, and I am still here under protest. 

Mr. Scherer. That is understood. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, if there is anything on which there is no doubt 
in the committee's mind, it is on that. 

Any further questions, Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. It takes a long time to read this. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5455 

Mr. Clardy. I don't think we will get very much more helpful 
information. 

Mr. Fox. I am sure your police agents earned their money when 
they made up that dossier. 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't catch that. 

Mr. Fox. I am sure that your police agents earned their money 
when they made up that — manufactured that piece of paper you have 
there. 

Mr. SciiERER. Well, now, you say they manufactured it? 

Mr. Fox, Yes, on the typewriter. 

Mr. SciiERER. AVell, let's see if they manufactured this: On Au- 
gust 9, 1952, didn't you attend a meeting at 1713 Clemens Street in 
the city of Detroit, at which Steve Nelson was present? 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds previously 
stated. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was that manufactured by the police, as you say? 

Mr. Fox. It may have been. 

Mr. ScuERER. It may have been. Do you deny that you attended 
that meeting? 

Mr. Fox. Is that a question ? 

Mr. SciiERER. Yes. 

Mr. Fox. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. ScuERi R. I thouglit you would. 

Mr. Clardy. Any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. 1 have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Ci-ardy. Witness dismissed. Call your next witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Harold L. Shapiro, will you come forward, 
please, sir? 

Mr. Chairman, we have not observed Mr. Shapiro, or his attorney in 
the liearing room this morning. Mr. Shapiro was subpenaed for at- 
tendance at Detroit and was to testify on Friday. On Wednesday his 
counsel called me and made a very strong plea for the continuance of 
the appearance of his witness because he was out of the city and would 
have to make a special trip back to appear on the day on which he was 
subpenaed to a])pear, and I agreed with counsel to transfer the witness 
here for today. I have heard nothing further from counsel. 

Mr. Scherer. What was counsel's name ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I do not have it with me. 

Mr. Clardy. I recall your discussion with me at the time, and I 
also recall that the gentleman in question was under the command of 
a subpena to appear at Detroit at the time that the Chair made the 
announcement of the change of place of appearance in response to his 
counsel's request. We can only hope that he will show up after lunch. 
If he doesn't then the committee will have to decide what action to 
take. 

^Ir. Scherer. Did you set a time for his appearance here when he 
made the request for continuance ? 

Mr, Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SriTERKR. Wmt time? 

Mr. Tavenner. Tuesday morning, my recollection is, 10 o'clock. 

Mr. Clardy. I made the announcement very clearly at Detroit. It is 
in the record. If you will recall, I repeated it so that it was on the 
record at least twice, and he was supposed to have been there at the 



M56 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

time the announcement was made because lie had not been excused 
from his subpena and has not and will not be excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. I suggest that the matter be passed temporarily. 

Mr. Clardy. Very well. Call your next witness. 

Mr. Ta\tenxp:r. Mr. Richard Lawrence Davis, will you come for- 
ward, please, sir. 

Mr. Clardt. Hold up your right hand. You do solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Davis. I do. 

Mr. Clardt. I see you are accompanied by counsel. Will you 
identify yourself on the record ? 

Mr. ScHNAAR. My name is Mitchell Schnaar, of Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVliat is your name, please, sir ? 

TESTIMONY OF RICHARD LAWRENCE DAVIS, ACCOMPANIED BY 
HIS COUNSEL, MITCHELL SCHNAAR 

^Ir. Davis. My name is Richard Lawrence Davis. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. "Wlien and where were you born, Mr. Davis? 

Mr. DA^r[s. July 20, 1911, Dawson City, Yukon Territory, Canada. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. "Wlien did you come to the United States? 

Mr. Da\t:s. I believe, sir, it was in 1927. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the place of entry? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Da\t:s. It was in the State of Washington. I do not remember 
the specific little town. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Can you give us some description of the place where 
you entered the United States ? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. DA^^[s. To the best of my recollection it was a small port where 
car ferries from — and passenger boats from Victoria, British Colum- 
bia docked. 

Mr. Clardt. Somewhere in the Puget Soimd then ? 

Mr. Davis. I would imagine so, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen? 

Mr. Davis. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Under what name were you naturalized ? 

Mr. Davis. My name is Richard Lawrence Davis. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you have not exactly answered my question. 
Under what name were you naturalized ? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I suggest the witness be directed to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Clardt. Yes. I do direct that you answer that. 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Clardt. Witness, you appreciate all we are asking for is the 
name that must be entered in official documents of your Government, 
the name under which you were naturalized. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5457 

Now, I think I should ])oint out that nothing beyond that is involved 
in that question, and your refusal to answer, in the opinion of the 
committee, is clearly not protected b}^ the fifth amendment. 

Ml'. Davis. This may be your opinion, Congressman^ 

ISIr. Clardy. It surely is. 

Mr. Da\t:s. But I would refuse to answer under my privilege under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. SciiERER. Let us get at it — — 

Mr. CnARDY. Ask him the name. We have the information. Let us 
get at it directly, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you naturalized and where ? 

Mr. Davis. I was naturalized March 10, lO-li, in the United States 
District Court in Louisville, Ky. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the name under which you were born? 

Mr. Davis. I Avill refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. I direct that you answer the question. 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. ^^^len was 3'our name changed legally by action 
of court ? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. On advice of counsel, at the same time that I received 
citizenship, my name was acknowledged as Richard Lawrence Davis. 

Mr. Clardy: Our questions have been with respect to what it was 
prior to that. 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Clardy. We realize, and we know, of course, and you do too • 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

]SIr. Clardy. Pardon me a minute. I want to tell you what I am 
getting at here. We know the several names under which you have 
gone, and we are tiying to trace tliem. We are giving you the oppor- 
tunity to tell us about it and to explain the circumstances. No effort is 
being made to cast any aspersions on you at all, but you must have 
entered your correct name under which you were born or one of the 
other names at the time you were naturalized, and we are seeking to 
fuid that out. 

Mr. Daves. My legal and correct name is Richard Lawrence Davis, 
and any additional information in that respect I will refuse to answer 
on my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Let me ]:)ut it to you this way : Were you naturalized 
under the name with which you were ushered into this life ? 

jNIr. Davis. I think I have made it rather clear that at the time of my 
naturalization I was naturalized as Richard Lawrence Davis. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, you haven't answered the question, so I direct 
that you do so. 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer under my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to the action of the court in changing your 
name to Richard Lawrence Davis, was your correct name Hedley 
Yukon Jones, Hedley Yukon Jones ? 



5458 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer that question on my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. SciiERER. Well, you used that name, didn't you ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment, Congressman. 

Mr. Clardy. Wasn't that the name with which you were christened ? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. I answer that question the same as before under my 
privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was your correct name Hedley Jones ? 

Mr. Davis. Same answer to that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the date on which you entered the United 
States? 

Mr. Davis. To the best of my recollection some place in 1927. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere did you go on your arrival in this country 
from 1927? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. I would refuse to answer that question on my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Oh, I must direct you to answer that question. 

Mr. Davis. I will answer the same way. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where have you resided since 1927 ? 

Mr. Davis. In the United States of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the United States. I say where have you resided 
in the United States since your arrival in this country. 
(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer that question on my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. You are directed to answer, witness. 

Mr. Davis. I will give the same answer. I refuse to answer under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you ever live in the State of California ? 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer that question on my privilege under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Davis, I have before me the record of arrest 
by the police department in Oakland, Calif., of a person by the name 
of Hedley Jones, January 30, 1939, on a charge of reckless driving. 
Were you the subject of that arrest ? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer that question on my privilege under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you in Oakland, Calif., in January 1939? 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer that question on my privilege under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Isn't it a fact that at the time that you were arrested 
on a charge of reckless driving in Oakland, Calif., in January 1939, 
there was found on your person a Young Communist League book 
made out in the name of Roy McCoy ? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred witli Mr. Schnaar.) 
Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer that question on the first and fourth 
amendment and on my privilege under the fifth amendment. 



COIVUVIUNIST ACTR^ITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5459 

Mr. SciiERER. Isn't it a fact that Roy McCoy was your Communist 
Party name ? 

Mr. Davis. I give the same answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you ever use that name at any time ? 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is it not also a fact that there was found in the 
car in which you were driving at the time of your arrest literature, 
pamphlets, and documents, emanating from the Communist Party? 

Mr. Davis. I would refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like at this time to go back to a period 
earlier than 1939. Did you live in southern California as early as 
1935? 

(At this point ]\Ir. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name 
of Harold Ashe ? 

Mr. Davis. I didn't get 

Mr. Tavenner. Harold Ashe was a Communist Party organizer 
and a member of the State committee of the Communist Party for 
California. 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

]Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Max Silver, organizer 
for Los Angeles County ; that is, organizer of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Davis. What was the first 

Mr. Tavenner. ]\Iax Silver. 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you, in 1935, the county organizational sec- 
retary of the Young Communist League in Los Angeles, Calif. 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Clardy. May I inquire? At that time were you not then 
using the name Roy McCoy ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer that question on my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. Were you using the name Hedley Patterson at that 
time? 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer that question on my privilege under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. When did you use the name Hedley Patterson ? 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer that question on my privilege under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Lou Rosser at 

any time ? 

Mr. Davis. Perhaps you could identify this person. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Lou Rosser was a Negro in Los Angeles who 
became the head of the Young Communist League for the State of 
California and became a member of the national committee of the 
Young Communist League. 



5460 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth, 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1937 were you the administrative and executive 
secretary of the Young Communist League in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privelege under the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1939 were you a member of the State committee 
of the Young Communist League for the State of California? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenker. Did you enter the Armed Forces of the United 
States shortly after January 30, 1939 i 

Mr. Davis. I • 

Mr. SciiERER. Wait a minute. 

Mr. Davis. I volunteered for the Army. 

Mr. Tavenner. When? 

Mr. Davis. If I am not mistaken — I will have to look it up here — 
September 9, 1942. 

Mr. Clardy. Was that at Detroit ? 

Mr. Davis. In Michigan ; yes, Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I see it, please ? 

Mr. Davis. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Why ? 

Mr. Davis. This is my personal record. 

Mr. Tavenner. It gives your correct name, does it not, in 1942 ? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Sclmaar.) 

Mr. Davis. It gives 

^At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

(At this point the witness took a billfold from his pocket and pro- 
duced a card which he used in deciding upon his course of action.) 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, witness, j^ou voluntarily produced that card from 
your pocket. 

Mr. Davis. I have other cards here. 

Mr. Clardy. And have referred to it. I have watched it through- 
out the time you had it in your hand. The Cliair commands that you 
permit counsel for the committee to examine it. You may retain it in 
your possession if you wish, but the counsel be given an opportunity 
to inspect it. 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Clardy. You have no longer any protection of any amendment 
to the Constitution with respect to the contents of that card, having 
voluntarily chosen to refer to it and to use it as the basis for your 
testimony. 

Mr. Tavenner, I ask you step over to the 

Mr. Davis. You want to inspect my wallet? 

Mr. Clardy. Over to the desk and take a look at it. 

Mr. Tavenner. No, just the card. 

Mr. Clardy. We do not ask that you hand it to him. 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. I don't think this is any of your business. Congressman, 
or the counsel. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5461 

Mr. Clardy. You are commanded to let him examine it and keep 
it in your possession, if you desire. 

(At tliis point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Sclmaar.) 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to comply with the request under my privilege 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. ScHNAAR. May we have access to the notes of counsel? 

Mr. Clardy. You may not address the chair. You may not address 
the chair, sir. That is the rule, and you must know it. 

Mr. Schnaar. But j'ou must understand my reason for my making 
-tlie request. 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. Let the record clearly show 
at this time that you physically ste})ped over behind counsel and the 
witness and that they covered up the card by returning it to tlie pocket- 
book and refusing to permit you to see it. Is that not a correct state- 
ment of fact? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is exactly what happened. 

Mr. Davis. Congressman Clardy 

Mr. Clardy. I want to make the record absolutely clear at this 
point. 

Mr. Davis. I wonder, Congressman Clardy, if my attorney may 
inspect the records that counsel has. 

Mr. Clardy. You, sir, are here to answer questions, and we do 
not at any time permit the witness to take over and conduct the 
proceeding. 

Now, you have refused, and we have made the record 

Mr. Davis. I didn't request that I take over the proceedings. I only 
asked a simple request similar to the one you asked, and that is that 
my counsel inspect the kind of information they have. 

Mr. Clardy. You are going to hear it all before the hearing is over, 
sir, a piece at a time, because we have a most voluminous record con- 
cerning your activities and your connections, but that part, sir, would 
have revealed one of the facts or proved one of the facts on which 
we have other evidence. 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Davis. My counsel advises me that legally you haven't a leg to 
stand on in demanding to see my notes and records. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, your attorney is entitled to advise you as he sees 
fit, and at your own peril you may follow that advice. We are not 
going to physically take the card from you, but again I must em- 
phasize, it is your responsibility and your risk, not ours. We have 
done our best. We shall do no more. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. How long was it after 1942 that you were natu- 
ralized ? 

Mr. Davis. I believe I answered that question previoiiply. The 
date of my naturalization, as I understand it, is March 10, 1944. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that while vou were in the Armed Forces of 
the United States? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. Yes. 



5462 COMIVIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. TA^^3NNER. That was bv virtue of a special law relating to the 
naturalization of persons in the Armed Forces of the United States ; 
was it not? 

Mr. Davis. I do not know for sure whether the law applied in that 
case. 

]\Ir. Clardy. Mr. Tavenner, I will let you ask the series of questions, 
but inquire as to when the application was made. I want j^^ou to 
demonstrate that the usual waiting period was not present in this 
case. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Under the procedure followed by persons in the 
Armed Forces, the method of naturalization was cut very short ; was 
it not? 

Mr. Davis. You are asking me for legal interpretations of the law. 
I don't feel that I am qualified or able to. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. No, I don't intend to do that. Let me change tlio 
question. You were not required to have a waiting period that M-as 
applicable to persons generally in making aiDplicatiqns for naturaliza- 
tion? 

Mr. Davis. Perhaps if the counsel would explain to me what you 
mean by waiting period, I might be able to answer your question, 

Mr. Clardy. You are familiar, aren't you, generally with the fact 
that normally an application has to be filed and some 5 years have to 
elapse before the court will take the final step ? 

Mr. Davis. Thank you for the information, that is what I wanted 
to know. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you know that? 

Mr. Davis. I didn't wait 5 years to have my citizenship granted to 
me upon application. 

Mr. Clardy. What we are trying to get at is : How long did you 
wait ? 

Mr. Davis. I don't really know. 

Mr. Clardy. It was a very short period, wasn't it ? 

Mr. Davis. It depends on what is short and what is long. 

Mr. ScHERER. How long was it ? 

Mr. Davis. I don't know. I mean, it was after I came in the Army 
and made application in 1944. 

Mr. Clardy. How long were you in the Army before you made 
application ? 

Mr. Davis. As far as I know, I requested my citizenship be granted 
to me shortly after joining the Army. 

Mr. Clardy. That was in 1942 ? 

Mr, Davis. Yes, it could be in 1942. 

Mr. Clardy. It is your recollection you were naturalized sometime 
in 1944? 

Mr. Davis. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time you filed your application or at any 
time prior to the granting of your naturalization, did you inform 
the Immigration and Naturalization Service or the court that you had 
been a member of the Communist Party or the Young Communist 
League ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer that question on my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a matter of fact, you did not advise them of 
that ; isn't that true ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5463 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer that question on my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. ScHERER. You didn't even tell them your right name ; did you ? 

Mr. Davis. Have you stopped beating your wife, Congressman — 
answer yes or no. I refuse to answer that question under my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

INIr. ScHERER. The fact is that the name which appears on that card 
you refused to show us is different from the name that you used when 
you made application for naturalization ; is it not ? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Daws. Congressman, I imagine you are speaking for the can- 
didate Clardy here. I am willing to give all of my notes that I have 
on my person here if you in exchange will give all'the notes you have 
on me. 

Mr. Clardy. I have already explained to you that you are going 
to discover a great many things that we know before this proceeding 
is over. It will extend well into the afternoon. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now I ask that you direct the witness to answer my 
question. 

Mr. Clardy. I so do direct. 

Mr. Davis. For my recollection I wonder if the reporter would 
repeat the question, please. 

Mr. Scherer. Will you read my last question.? 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, you don't mean to tell me you declined to 
answer the question without knowing what it was, do you? It would 
appear so. 

Mr. Davis. As far as I understand, I may have declined it. I would 
like to hear the question. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed to read the question. Miss Reporter. 

(The question was read by the reporter as follows :) 

The fact is that the name which appears on that card you refused to show 
us is different from the name that you used when you made application for 
naturalization, is it not? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

_Mr. Clardy. Well, was it a name totally different from that first 
given to you after your birth ? 

Mr. Davis. I have stated for the record my name is Richard 
Lawrence Davis. 

Mr. Clardy. No, you are not answering the question, Witness. 
Answer the question. 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the time you filed your application for citizen- 
ship and at the time you were admitted to citizenship did you know 
that there w^as out and in existence a warrant of arrest for you. charg- 
ing that you were an alien affiliated with an organization advocating 
the overthrow of the United States Government by force ? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. I am not quite sure whether you are testifying or I am, 
but my answer will be, I refuse to answer on my privilege under the 
fifth amendment. 



5464 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Tavenner. "VVliere did you reside between 1939 and 1942, the 
date on which you went into the United States Army ? 

Mr. Davis. I wonder if you would clarify that a little more. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Where did you reside between January 30, 1939, 
and the date in 1942 when you went into the Armed Forces of the 
United States? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my pri^dlege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tax'enner. Where did you volunteer to enter the armed 
services ? 

Mr. Davis. Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long had you been in Detroit before you volun- 
teered ? 

Mr. Daws. Possibly a year and a half, 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed in Detroit ? 

Mr. Davis. Are you asking my employment or my occupation? 

Mr. Clardy. Well, did you work at your occupation? Is there a 
distinction ? 

Mr. Davis. There may be. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, suppose you tell us both sides of that. 

Mr. Davis. Whicli one do you want ? 

Mr. Clardy. Both. . 

Mr. Davis. Which one first ? 

Mr. Clardy. Either way. 

Mr. Davis. I am proud of my occupation. I have never been fired. 
I am a salesman. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, will you give us the balance of it ? You haven't 
answered the question. 

Mr. Davis. Last week — this is on employment, that is the question 
you want, right? Last week 6 or 7 witnesses were fired as a result 
of this committee's unfair, un-American, and illegal questions. I 
will refuse to answer under the first, fourth amendments, and basical- 
ly on my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Scherer. That is a nice statement for a person who obtained 
his naturalization by fraud. 

Mr. Davis. Tliat may be your opinion. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, it may be the opinion of the Government of the 
United States, sir, as you may discover in due course. 

Mr. Davis. Are you threatening me. Congressman ? 

Mr. Clardy. I am making no threats at all. You are here to answer 
questions. What may eventuate is beyond our power to either stop 
or accelerate. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand you left the i\.rmed Forces about 194G, 
is that correct? 

Mr. Davis. Approximately that date, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you again take up your residence in Detroit 
on your release from the armed services ? 

Mr. Davis. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived there constantly since 1946 ? 

Mr. Davis. Lived where ? 

Mr. Taat^nner. In Detroit. 

Mr. Davis. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your occupation and employment ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5465 

Mr. Davis. I answered that question. 
Mr. Clardy. Well, answer it again. 
Mr. Davis. The same way, Congressman ? 
Mr. Clardy. Answer the question. 
Mr. Davis. I am salesman. 

Mr. Clardy. That I don't think quite covers the entire question. 
Will you read it to him again, Miss Reporter ? 

(The question was read by the reporter as follows :) 

What has been your occupation and employment? 

Mr. Clardy. Are you intending to cover the entire period about 
which we have been inquiring when you say 

]Mr. Davis. Possibly I didn't understand the counsel's question com- 
pletely. Are you attempting to ascertain the nature of my employ- 
ment from the time I was discharged from the Army ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, that is my first question. I propose to ask you 
others. 

Mr. Clardy. Now by your answer did you intend to reply to that 
kind of a question ? 

Mr. Davis. I am a salesman from the period of discharge from the 
Army to date. 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer under the first and fourth amend- 
ments and basically on my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. SciiERER. Were you engaged in some illegal enterprise ? 

Mr. Davis. Are you asking me a question ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes, that is a question. For a man who has been so 
clever in obtaining naturalization by fraud, 3^011 certainly can't under- 
stand simple questions or pretend not to understand them. Will you 
direct him to answer my question 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, I do direct him. 

Mr. Davis. I didn't hear. You were interfering 

Mr. Clardy. I will paraphrase it. The question, is, By whom were 
you first employed when you left the armed services ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer under the first and fourth 
amendments and basically on my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. ScHERER. By whom then were you employed after you severed 
your connection with your first employer ? 

Mr. Davis. I didn't say either way, did I ? Or are you inferring 
something ? 

JSIr. ScHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Clardy. I so direct. 

(At this point ]\Ir. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. Congressman Clardy, is that question 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't ask the question. 

Mr. Davis. Material to the purposes of this investigation ? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, or it wouldn't have been asked, and I direct you 
to answer. 

Mr. ScHERER. For a person with your record, it is very material. 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 



5466 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer under the first and fourth amend- 
ments to the Constitution and basically on my privilege under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. SciiERER. Give us the names of your employers since you got 
out of the Army in 1946. 

Mr, Davis. I will refuse to answer under the first and fourth amend- 
ments and basically on the fifth amendment. 

Mr. ScHERER. Go ahead, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are j^ou now employed by Mr. Ivobert Kowlson? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on the first and fourth and basi- 
cally on the fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the hearings which were conducted in De- 
troit in 1952 by this committee, Mrs. Bereniece Baldwin appeared as 
a witness, and at that time identified you as a member of the Com- 
munist Party in Detroit. Was she correct in her identification? 

Mr. Daves. I refuse to answer under my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party 
at any time from 1946 until February 1952 when Mrs. Baldwin tes- 
tified before this committee ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer under my privilege under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer under my privilege under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Were you not a member of the Communist Party 
of the ITnited States when you entered into the Armed Forces of the 
United States ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Has the Bureau of Immigration and Naturalization 
Service interviewed you regarding the manner by which you obtained 
your naturalization since the date you were naturalized in 1944? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you consistently engaged in the work of the 
Communist Party since you have been in Detroit in addition to being 
a member of the party ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage in work of the Civil Rights Con- 
gress in 1951 ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. After your return to Detroit in 1946 did you become 
the section organizer of the east side section of district 7 of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer that question on my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you also in 1948 become a member of the execu- 
tive board of the lower east side section of district 7 of the Communist 
Party? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5467 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1948 were you a member of the Michigan State 
committee of the seventh district of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become its financial secretary in 1948 ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1949 were you active in the sense that that you 
became a member of the educational committee of the Communist 
Party ? 

]\Ir. DA\^s. I will refuse to answer that question on my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you chairman of the Oakland Communist 
klubin 1949? 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer that question on my privilege under 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1950 did you become organizer of the New Haven 
Communist club, district 7, of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer that question on my privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I4i 1935 did you attend the Communist Party school 
at Los Angeles ? 

(At this ]3oint Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer on my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you selected by the Communist Party to attend 
a national training school in New York during the year 1937 ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer under my privilege under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. And did you attend that school ? 

Mr. Clardy. Go ahead and answer that question. 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer that question, too. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Tavenner, I think it might be well at this point 
for a word of explanation about that New York Communist Party 
school. Will you put it in the record at this juncture ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The Communist Party school that was conducted 
in New York in 1937 and other years was a school made up of persons 
selected from the various districts in the United States ; that is, dis- 
tricts of the Communist Party. They attended that school. Their 
names were usually given only by first names. It was an advanced 
course and training. It was conducted by leaders of the Communist 
Party in this country. 

Mr. Scherer. Weren't some of them trained in Russia ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not certain that the teachers at any given 
time were ; I am not certain of that. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, the training included everything the Communisi^s 
teach, including the use of sabotage and everything that goes with it. 

Mr. Tavenner. It included the method by which demonstrations 
were to be conducted. It included the entire policy and theory of the 
party as well as the 



5468 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Clardy. I think I should interrupt to say that these things we 
are inquiring about of you, sir, are matters on wliich we do have evi- 
dence, and we are going down the list as you requested and calling 
each thing to your attention 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

]\Ir. Clardy. So that there will be no doubt in your minds as to 
what the committee does possess. 

Mr. Tavenner, because we have reached the hour of 12 o'clock 

Mr. Davis. I want to know if this is evidence of crimes that I am 
supposed to have 

Mr. Clardy. We will suspend at this time until 1 : 30. 

(Thereupon, at 12 : 03 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 1 : 30 p. m. of the same day.) 

afternoon session 

(At the hour of 1 : 32 p. m. of the same day, the proceedings were 
resumed, Representatives Kit Clardy (acting chairman) and Gordon 
H. Scherer being present. ) 

Mr. Clardy. The committee will be in session. 

The witness will resume the stand. Proceed. 

TESTIMONY OF EICHARD LAWRENCE DAVIS, ACCOMPANIED BY 
HIS COUNSEL, MITCHELL SCHNAAR— Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Davis, during the course of the hearings in 
Detroit there was introduced in evidence a document which the com- 
mittee had recently acquired. This document was a resolution from 
the State level of the Communist Party in the State of Michigan 
directing the various sections of the Communist Party as to how it 
should proceed in the educational work and in the planning of the 
work of the Communist Party in the State of Michigan. One of the 
matters upon which great emphasis was placed was additional educa- 
tion of the members of the Communist Party through various schools. 
One school in particular which was emphasized in the document was 
the Michigan School of Social Science. Did you attend the Michigan 
School of Social Science in the year of 1919 ? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Davis. Mr. Tavenner, I will answer that question, but first I 
wonder if I would have permission to make a correction on the record 
of part of the testimony I made this morning. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question first and then proceed 
to make the correction ? 

(At this point Mr. Davis conferred with Mr. Schnaar.) 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, if you answer this question, and you desire to 
correct something you have said this morning, we will permit that 
correction. 

Mr. Davis. All right. I refuse to answer that question on my 
privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, now, while you didn't answer the question, we 
still will permit you to make the correction. 

Mr. Davis. I understand, or I remember the question something to 
the effect that after my discharge — and may I say honorable dis- 
charge — from the Army in 1946, the question was, have I resided in 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5469 

Detroit since that time. I w^oiild like to state that tlie bulk of the 
time I did reside, but for a short few months in possibly 1948 and 
1949, I commuted to work in Detroit from out of the city of Detroit. 

Mr. Clardy. Is that the extent of the change ? 

Mr. Davis. That is the question I wanted answered ; yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the period of time that you did have your 
residence in the city of Detroit after your return from the armed 
services, did you reside at 3t20 East Milwaukee Street ? 

Mr. Davis. I decline — I refuse to answer that question on my 
privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. I direct that you answer that question. 
_ Mr. Davis. Congressman Clardy, I will refuse to answer that ques- 
tion on my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Verna McAllister in the 
city of Detroit w^hile you were a resident there ? 

Mr. Davis. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Verna McAllister. The committee is advised that 
there was a State Communist Party convention held in January, in 
fact, January 24 and 25, 1948, at 2934 Yemans in Hamtramck. Were 
you in attendance at that convention ? 

Mr, Davis. I refuse to answer as before for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is also advised that there was a 
Communist Party State organizational conference held at 2705 Joy 
Road, April 21 and 22, 1950. Were you in attendance at that organ- 
izational conference ? 

Mr. Davis. I will refuse to answer that question for the same reason 
given. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Scherer 

Mr. Scherer. I only have this comment, that immediately upon 
my return to Washington I am going to write the Attorney General 
and urge that immediate action be taken toward the denaturalization 
and eventual deportation of this witness. I feel that the committee 
has ample evidence in its possession at this time to warrant such action. 

Mr. Clardy. And to supplement the statement made by Congress- 
man Scherer, I beg to inform you, witness, that it will be the action not 
alone of Congressman Scherer, but of the subcommittee. We shall 
ask the Attorney General to take immediate action to refer the matter 
forthwith to the proper bureau of immigration, and we shall inform 
the Attorney General that this committee has in its files ample and 
sufficient evidence to warrant the action we shall recommend, and we 
shall make all of that material in evidence available to the Attorney 
General for the use in the proceedings we shall most strongly recom- 
mend. 

Now I will add a personal word to that. From the evidence that 
the committee has in its files it is plainly apparent to me that you 
have used not only the aliases that we have thus far mentioned, but 
several others, and that you have obtained the highest privilege on 
■earth, that of becoming a citizen of the United States of America, 
through the use of fraud and deception, and that you should not be 
longer permitted to remain within the borders of this country, and 
I assure you I shall do all witliin my power to see to it that the author- 
ity to whom the responsibility of removing you from our midst is 



5470 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

confined moves promptly and moves effectively Witness dismissed. 
lylr. Davis. May I make a statement ? 1 ou said 



.._ -^ay 

Mr. Clardy. Call the next witness. 
Mr. Davis. You said the evidence- 



Mr Clardy. The witness is dismissed. Call the next witness. 
Mr". Tavenner. Harold L. Shapiro. Will you come forward, please, 

TVTv ^li*ii')iro 

Mr. Clardy. Hold up your right hand. You do solemnly swear 
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you (jod ^ 

Mr. Shapiro, I do. ^ . , ,^ 

Mr Clvrdy. You may be seated. I see you are accompanied by 
counsel. Will counsel identify himself for the record, please i 

Mr. Maki. E. William Maki, Detroit, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 

TESTIMONY OF HAEOLD L. SHAPIRO, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
COUNSEL, E. WILLIAM MAKI 

Mr. Shapiro. Harold L. Shapiro. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ^ ■,, . • 

Mr. Shapiro. I was born on December 19, 1915, m a small farming 
community in upstate New York. 

Mr Tavenner. Where do you now reside i 

Mr. Shapiro. At 2334 Elmhurst, Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived m Detroit i 

Mr! Shapiro. Almost 10 years. . 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 

educational training has been? -n xt- i c^i.^^i o,.r1 

Mr Shapiro. I am a graduate of Jeffersonville High School, and 

I attended one term of the College of the City of New lork. 
Mr. Tavenner. What is your trade or occupation i 
Mr. Shapiro. I am a union organizer. , . 

Mr Tavenner. How long have you been a union organizer i 
Mr*. Shapiro. Off and on since 1939, 1 believe. i t .i 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you an organizer for the l^ur and l^eatliei 

Mr.^SHAPiRO. The International Fur and Leather Workers Unioi 
of the United States and Canada. . , ^ . ^i , 

Mr Tavenner. During the last period of your occupancy of thai 
position, or rather, I mean to ask you what has been the last perioc 
of your occupancy of that position. 

Mr. Shapiro. Since September 1944. _ . 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you held that position continuously sinc( 

1944? 

Mr. Shapiro. I have. , . . ... 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you held any other position withm your unioi 

during that period of time ? , . , . ^i 

Mr. Shapiro. No, that is my only designation within the union.^ 
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time been State director, cccupiec 

a jiosition entitled "State director" ? 

Mr. Shapiro. There is no such position, Mr. Tavenner. 
Mr. Tavenner. There is not? 
Mr. Shapiro. May I clarify that? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5471 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir 

Mr. Shapiro. I am the only organizer for our union in the State of 
Michigan. Therefore, I may be termed a State director for the — if 
you so choose to term it. 

]Mr. Clardy. You are both the general and the private in that, are 
you? 

Mr. Shapiro. That is about right. 

Mr. Tai-enner. Do you know whether Mr. Abe Feinglass, F-e-i-n- 
g-1-a-s-s, holds a position with your union, the Fur and Leather 
Workers ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Is that a relevant question to this hearing? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir; yes, sir, it is. Let me explain to you the 
relevance if there is a question in your mind. 

Mr. Shapiro. All right. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. This committee is undertaking to study matters re- 
lating to the enforcement of the non-Communist affidavit provisions of 
the Taft-Hartley Act. It has a bill assigned to it now for the con- 
sideration of that subject, and it is that particular that I want to 
ask you the question. 

Mr. Clardy. The bill was presented by the committee ; in other 
words, it is a committee bill on which we are working at the present 
time. 

Mr. Shapiro. Mr. Feinglass appeared before your committee, 
chaired by Congressman Velde, in Washington a month ago, approxi- 
mately a month ago. I think that any information that they required 
they received from him at that hearing. I can see no relevance to 
asking me questions about my district director. 

Mr. Clardy. The Chair directs that you answer it, whether you 
see the relevancy or not. We deem it so. 

(At this point Mr. Shapiro conferred with Mr. Maki.) 
_ Mr. Shapiro. My counsel advises me that mv answering this ques- 
tion may tend to lead me into further questions regarding the inner 
workings of our organization, which is not the proper business of this 
committee ; it is the business of nobody but our membership. We cer- 
tainly don't intend to expose it to tlie antiunion emplovers witli whom 
we deal and who may take advantage of that situation to destroy the 
conditions of our members. It is on that basis that I feel vour ques- 
tion is improper. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, we are not interested in the union as such, but 
we are definitely interested in the question of Communist infiltration 
into the union or unions, and it is relevant. You refuse to answer at 
your own risk. I understand you have refused, is that correct ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Will you repeat your question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The question was whether or not Mr. Abe Feinglass 
was an official of the Fur and Leather Workers Union. 
^ Mr. Shapiro. I still feel the question is improper, Mr. Counsel. It 
Js public knowledge that Mr. Feinglass is the district director of our 
union in district 4. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did he become 

Mr. Shapiro. But your question is improper. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did he become district director ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Oh, I don't know that. 

(At this point Mr. Shapiro conferred with Mr. Maki.) 



5472 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, so we may expedite this, I wish you would 
refrain from advising the committee on its powers and duties. You 
may refuse to answer or answer as you see fit, and you may state your 
reasons for refusing to answer, but we are not seeking any advice or 
counsel from you as to how we should conduct the hearing. 

Now, if you will stick to that general ruling, I think we will get along 
famously and much faster. 

(At this point Mr. Shapiro conferred with Mr. Maki) . 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed. 

Mr. Shapiro. I have answered your question, haven't I, counsel? 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you asking that the question be repeated? I 
didn't hear you. 

Mr. Shapiro. I don't Imow. What is your last question? 

Mr. Tavenxer. Will you read the question again, please? I think 
I can state it more quickly. What position, if any, did Mr. Feinglass 
hold in your union ? 

Mr. Shapiro. You say did he hold ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Or does he hold, let us put it that way. 

Mr. Shapiro. He is director of district 4. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he also vice president of your union ? 

Mr. Shapiro. He is not vice president. We have no 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he a vice president ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. What other position did Mr. Feinglass hold besides 
that of director? 

Mr. Shapiro. I know of no other position. I know of no other 
position. 

Mr. Tavenner. "^Yliat State or States are included in district 4 of 
your union? 

Mr. Shapiro. I am not an official of district 4, Mr. Tavenner. I 
have no knowledge — no direct knowledge, by virtue of my position 
as an organizer in the State of Michigan of the operation of t))e district 
as such. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is district 4 Mr. Feinglass' district? 

Mr. Shapiro. It is. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. What territory is included within youi- district? 

Mr. Shapiro. State of Michigan. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the number of the district ? Does it have 
a number? 

Mr. Shapiro. No. It is included within district 4. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that so? Well, then, is Mr. Feinglass your 
superior? 

Mr. Shapiro. In a manner of speaking he would be. Actually I am 
employed directly by the international union. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you are accountable to him, are you iiot, as the 
superior in the chain of command? 

Mr. Shapiro. Not directly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Not directly? 

Mr. Shapiro. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, will you explain what the connection is? 

Mr. Shapiro. The district is a mechanism for the purpose of coordi- 
nating the activities of the union on a geographical basis. It is not a 
union organization in the sense that it negotiates contracts, conducts 
organizational activity, or any of the other activities of a union. It 



I 



( 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5473 

is merely a coordinating body. Every local is independent, operates 
under its own bylaws, and acts only in conformity with their consti- 
tution and bylaws and that of the international union. 

Mr. Tavennek. Will you explain briefly what your duties are as 

■ganizer? 

Mr. Shapiro. As an organizer for our union my duties consist of 
negotiating contracts, organizing shops, servicing the membership on 
grievances, conducting arbitrations, preparing them, preparing edu- 
cational activities relating to the labor movement, and such sundry 
other activities which are common to the trade-union movement. 

Mr. Tavenner. What are Mr. Feinglass' duties as director of 
His • 

Mr. Shapiro. Mr. Tavenner, I am not in a position to define Mr. 
Feinglass' duties. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, are they substantially the same as yours ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I wouldn't say so. I don't know. 

Mr. ScHERER. You mean you don't know what Feinglass' activities 
are, or duties are ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I think you are Congressman Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. I think so. 
_ Mr. Shapiro. I haven't got my glasses on. Yes. I am not in a posi- 
tion to say, Congressman Scherer, what the duties of Mr. Fein- 
glass are. 

Mr. Scherer. Whether you are in a position or not, do you know 
wdiat his duties are ? . 

Mr. Shapko. I know in a very general manner what the duties and 
activities of a district director are supposed to be. 

Mr. Scherer. Then tell us about them. 

Mr. Shapiro. I have no close acquaintance with Mr. Feinglass* 
iuties or responsibilities, and I am not in a position to tell you about 
hem. 

Mr. Scherer. I ask that you direct him to tell us the general 
Iuties of 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, give us the information as far as you possess it. 
f ou indicate you have some information of a general nature. Now, 
et us hear that. 

Mr. Shapiro. I will have to repeat what I said before, Congress- 
nan, that the purpose of the Midwest district or of any district with- 
n our union is that of a coordinating body, and Mr. Feinglass as direc- 
tor of this district is the one who directs that coordination. 

Mr. Clardy. He gives orders to people such as yourself and others ? 

Mr. Shapiro. No, nobody gives orders in our union except the mem- 
tership. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, do you give any orders to anybody ? 
Mr. Shapiro.' I certainly do not. My membership gives me orders. 
Mr. Clardy. You are merely the messenger boy for the member- 
ihip then. 

Mr. Shapiro. I am their representative, there for the purpose of 
jarrying out their will and their desires. 

Mr. Clardy. As you interpret it. 

Mr. Shapiro. As they interpret it for me. 

Mr. Clardy. You use no independent judgment at all, then, I 
ake it. 



5474 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. ShxVpiro. I sometimes have the temerity to exercise my judg- 
ment and give them what I think may be my proper thinlving on the 
subject, and they accept it or decline it as they choose. 

Mr. Clardt. We are getting nowhere fast, Mr. Tavenner. AVill you 
go ahead ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you required under the law to execute a non- 
Communist affidavit ? 

Mr. Shapiro. No, I am not. 

Mr. Tavenner. As an official of your union ? 

Mr. Shapiro. No, I am not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is Mr. Feinglass required to file such an affidavit? 

Mr. Shapiro. I don't thinlv so. 

Mr. CLAitDY. Well, I am impelled to ask then, is there anyone in 
your organization who must do that in order to have the benefit and 
advantage of the law ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I might question the benefit and advantages of the 
Taft-Hartley law. 

Mr. Clardy. Let us suppose you have, but you understand my 
question. 

Mr. Shapiro. Yes, I understand it, and I will answer it. The 
officers of our union who are required to sign the non-Communist affi- 
davit are the same as those for any labor organization which wjshes to 
use the questionable benefits of the Taft-Hartley Act or the National 
Labor Relations Board. These are the national officers of the inter- 
national union plus all of the officers of any particular local which 
desire to avail themselves of the so-called questionable benefits. 

Mr. Clardy. Would that bring you into the picture somewhere 
along the way ? 

Mr. Shapiro. No, it would not. 

Mr. Clardy. Because you are not occupying either of the positions 
at either extreme that you have mentioned. 

Mr. Shapiro. That is correct. 

Mr. Clardy. Is my memory playing me false ? Didn't your organ- 
ization represent to the Congress that you did not want any changes 
made in the Taft-Hartley law ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I think your memory is playing you false. 

Mr. CLAitDY. Well, do you know ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I don't know for sure, but I think you are probably 
wrong. 

Mr. Clardy. I don't think I am, but it is possible that I could be 
because I hadn't thought too much about it. 

Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Has there been any change in the organizational 
structure of your union since the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act 
which would reduce the number of persons required to sign the non- 
Communist affidavit ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I have attended every convention of our union at 
least since 1944. I have never been a member of the constitutional 
committee which proposes changes to the delegation, but I do not 
recall any such constitutional change. There may have been one; I 
don't know. 

INIr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether or not the office of vice 
president or any of the offices of vice president has been eliminated 
since the passage of the Taft-Hartley Act in your union ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5475 

Mr. Shapiro. My impression, Mr. Tavenner, is that the national 
setup of the national officers is now and has been, for as long as I 
know, that of president, secretary treasurer, and an executive board 
consisting of approximately 35 men and women. 

Mr. SciiERER. You never had any vice presidents, to your knowl- 
edge? 

Mr. Shapiro. To my knowledge I can't say that we did. Repre- 
sentative Scherer. There may have been a loose reference to execu- 
tive board members as vice presidents, but in that case all 35 would 
have veen vice presidents, not any one in particular, and I don't think 
that that was a constitutional provision, at least it wasn't to my rec- 
ollection. 

Mr. Scherer. They were called vice presidents, were they not? 

Mr. Shapiro. If they were, it was a very loose term. 

Mr. Scherer. You know, as a matter of fact, don't you ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I don't know. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Scherer. How long have you been with the Fur and Leather 
Workers Union ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I have answered that question. Congressman. 

Mr. Scherer. Well, I forgot. 

Mr. Shapiro. I have been there since 1944. 

Mr. Scherer. And you don't recall any time from 1944 that any 
of these people to whom you referred having been called within 
the organization itself vice president or vice presidents, is that right? 

Mr. Shapiro. Congressman Clardy, I am trying to the best of my 
ability to answer these questions. I think I am being harassed now 
by — on a very picayune point. I want to state again for your benefit, 
Congressman Scherer, that to my knowledge there has never been an 
official designation as vice president, and I repeat that. 

Mr. Scherer. Whether there has been an official designation or not, 
I am not inquiring. I am asking you whether or not within the or- 
ganization certain of these people whom you have mentioned have 
not been referred to over the years as vice presidents. 

Mr. Shapiro. Referred to by whom ? 

Mr. Scherer. People within the union, like yourself. 

Mr. Shapiro. Apparently Mr. Tavenner mistakenly referred to me 
as a State representative a few minutes ago. Now there may have 
been that kind of reference to any member of the executive board as 
a vice president. If there was, I am not accountable for it. I can 
only repeat that to my knowledge there was no official designation 
as vice president. I think that should satisfy you. 

Mr. Clardy. You have never called anyone in your organization by 
the term "vice president" then ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Not to my recollection. 

Mr. Scherer. You haven't addressed any commimications then, 
have you? You haven't addressed any communications to any of 
these men as vice president ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Not that I recall. 

Mr. Scherer. You wouldn't say that you didn't ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I would not say so. 

Mr. Clardy. I think perhaps the committee ought to make it a 
little plainer, INIr. Tavenner, that the prime purpose of all these ques- 
tions is that the committee has accumulated quite a lot of evidence that 
has convinced us that the non-Communist oath provision in the Taft- 



5476 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Hartley law is not accomplishing the purpose for which it was de- 
vised. Under it it is possible for a man who is a Communist today to 
on the following day, divest himself, at least ostensibly, of that mem- 
bership, take an oath, and then immediately rejoin the day following 
and square with his conscience and maybe with the law the fact that he 
was not a Communist, as he defines it at any rate, at the precise mo- 
ment that he took the oath and made the affidavit. 

Now, we have in process of preparation 

Mr. ScHERER. Or change the names of the officers of the union so 
they don't have to comply. 

Mr. Clardy. That is right. Now, we have in process, undergoing 
changes and what not, a bill that the committee caused to be intro- 
duced in the name of our chairman, some time ago, designed to com- 
pletely change the whole picture, the basis of it being to eliminate the 
Taft-Hartley oath provision and substitute therefor — and I am only 
giving you a very sketchy outline and leaving out a lot of it — to sub- 
stitute therefor a provision of law which will say that any organiza- 
tion dominated by the Communists and found to be so dominated by 
a Government agency which we shall designate in the statute, shall be 
deprived of all advantages of the Taft-Hartley Act and related labor 
laws ; provided further that if they have and do divest themselves of 
the Communist control and leadership, they may then come back be- 
fore that board, and upon the presentation of proper proof, which con- 
vinces the board that that has been done, may again avail themselves 
of the advantages of the act. 

We think that that will provide a much more effective protection for 
the good loyal American citizens who make up most of the unions in the 
United States, and it will enable them to clean house without too much 
difficulty. At the moment some of them are having a great deal of 
trouble, as we know. 

Now, we are seeking to get information from you and from other 
witnesses to help us in accumulating facts to present to the House and 
to the Senate in explanation of and in furtherance of this move that 
the committee has undertaken during this session of Congress. I state 
that to you so you will understand, despite what you said earlier, our 
questions are entirely relevant and entirely in point. We have some- 
thing that we think will be of benefit to the rank and file members, 
because for the first time it will enable them, figuratively speaking, ta 
wring the necks of the Communist leaders who, in some instances, 
Piave taken control of their unions and have prevented the true ex- 
pression of the wish and desire of the members. 

Now, that is so you will understand. 

Will you proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Shapiro. May I be permitted to make a statement in answer to 
that? 

Mr. Clardy. Yes. There is nothing to say in answer to it, but if 
you understand what I am getting at and want to comment on it, I will 
entertain a brief statement. 

Mr. Shapiro. I will make it brief. Our organization is faced with 
severe unemployment in the State of Michigan during this particular 
time. This is further complicated by the fact that many of our con- 
tracts are expiring and coming up for renewal. The membership of 
the locals are in the process of formulating serious demands to secure 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5477 

and perhaps further improve their wages and their working con- 
ditions. 

Mr. Clardy. The committee, of course, has no authority to go into 
that field, I trust you understand. 

Mr. Shapiro. I think that you have entered that field, Congress- 
man, and that is why I wish to make this statement. 

Mr. Clardy. No, I am sorry, but according to the law under which 
we operate we are severely restricted and limited to the field that we 
are now investigating; that is, Communist propaganda. Communist 
infiltration, and other committees of Congress are devoting their time 
to the other problems. 

Mr. Shapiro. The point I wish to make, Congressman, if you will 
permit me 

Mr. Clardy. Surely. 

Mr. Shapiro. Is that my subpena h-ere and the tenor of the questions 
that are being directed now are calculated to disrupt and destroy the 
conditions of our membership in this particular situation. 

Mr. Clardy. No, it may be calculated to destroy any possible Com- 
munist domination, but nothing to do with the membership itself. 
Disabuse your mind of any idea that we are trying to bust your union 
or do anything in connection with it other than to help it cleanse itself. 

Mr. Shapiro. You are not so naive as to believe that this hearing 
will not have an effect upon the membership and upon the employers 
with whom we must negotiate and therefore upon the conditions of 
the members. You know that it will. 

Mr. Clardy. If there are any Communists in your organization, 
I sincerely hope and pray that it will. 

Mr. Shapiro. If there are any Communists in our organization, 
they as union members will be judged by the membership on the basis 
of their performance within the organization, on the basis of their 
devotion to the needs of the membership and upon no other basis. 

Mr. Clardy. Then you have nothing to fear. 

Mr. Shapiro. I have something to fear from the employers whom 
his hearing is assisting. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, that, of course, is, as the old saying goes, one 
man's opinion. 

Mr. Shapiro. Okay. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Shapiro. Proceed. I give you permission. 

Mr. Tavexner. Thank you. 

Mr. Clardy. Oh, now 

]Mr. Shapiro. I am not being facetious, Congressman. 

Mr. Clardy. I think in fairness you should, yourself, request that 
hat remark be withdrawn. 

Mr. Shapiro. I so request. You are perfectly right. 

Mr. Clardy. Proceed, Mr. Travenner. I think we have quieted 
down a little bit here. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Shapiro, the committee, through a document 
which it introduced in evidence during the hearing in Detroit last 
week, received information as to the strategic plans of the Communist 
Party in the field of industry. That report which was introduced in 
Bvidence as Johnson exhibit No. 1, stressed the importance of work to 
36 done by Communist Party groups in aid particularly of the Ford 
section of the Communist Party. Mr. Harold Mikkelsen, during the 



5478 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

course of his testimony last week in Detroit, described the organiza- 
tional work of certain of what was termed the downriver group or 
section of the Communist Party. He described the various clubs that 
were organized within that section. He told the committee that you 
were prominent in the work of those groups within the Comnumist 
Party. I would like you to tell the committee, if that testimony is 
correct, the nature of the work that was done in aid of the Ford 
section of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Shapiro. Let me ask you a question first, if I may. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you should answer that question first. 

Mr. Shapiro. I want you to clarify it for me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. 

Mr. Shapiro. I w^ill state the clarification. Perhaps I should ask 
this of my attorney, but maybe you can help me, too ; Wouldn't it be 
degrading for me to admit any knowledge of a paid informer? 
Wouldn't that tend to degrade me ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Why, of course not. 

Mr. Clardy. And furthermore 

Mr. Tavenner. Of course not. 

Mr. Clardy. Furthermore, witness, when you use the word "in- 
former," you, yourself, are implying that somebody has some 
improper knowledge. 

Mr. Shapiro. Not necessarily. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, maybe you may 

Mr. Shapiro. Oh, no. 

Mr. Clardy. Not think so. 

Mr. Shapiro. You may think so. 

Mr. Clardy. You inquire of anyone in this audience, and you will 
find that is the reaction. That, of course, is a Communist word that 
is used over and over and over along with the term "stool pigeon." 
That is not involved in this at all. Now, will you answer the question. 
Do you remember it ? 

(At this point Mr. Shapiro conferred with Mr. Maki.) 

Mr. Shapiro. Mr. Tavenner, in that long question which you asked 
me which sounded more like a statement than a question, did you use 
the words "Ford section of the Communist Party" ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Shapiro. I think you will have to define Communist Party 
for me. I don't know just what it is, and I am not being facetious, 
Mr. Congressman, or Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, let me ask you, have you been a member of 
a group that went under the name or designation of Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Shapiro. Mr. Tavenner 

Mr. Tavenner. That ought to serve as a basis for the definition. 

Mr. Shapiro. The international president of our union was just 
convicted in Washington, D. C, on a charge of falsely signing a Taft- 
Hartley affidavit. 

Mr. Clardy. And fairly convicted, in my opinion. 

Mr. Shapiro. In the summation of tlie Attorney General to the 
jury, the Attorney General said, in etfect, the mere fact that the Gov- 
ermnent has not presented any evidence that Mr. Gold has been a 
member of the Communist Party since 1048 August, carried a card in 
the Communist Party, paid dues to the Communist Party or attended 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5479 

any meetings of the Communist Party is no proof that he was not a 
member, and now you ask me questions about the Communist Party. 
How can I safely answer such a question ? 

Mr. Taat<:xner. I am asking- you whether you have at any time been 
a member of tlie Communist Party. 

Mr. Clardy. And you certainly can, with complete safety, say no if 
that is the truth. 

Mr. Shapiro. I cannot, Mr. Congressman. 

Mr. Clardy. If it is the truth, you can. 

Mr. Shapiro. I cannot. I believe that the word of an informer will 
be taken in preference to mine, and I would endanger m^-self on a 
charge of perjury if I were to answer. 

Mr. Tavexner. I suggest that the witness be directed to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. I so direct. 

Mr. Shapiro. In that case you leave me no alternative but to rely 
upon my rights under the fifth amendment. I have no alternative. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you attend any Communist Party meetings? 

Mr. Shapiro. I must give the same answer, Mr. Congressman, for 
tlie same reason. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did j^ou ever pay dues to the Communist Pai ty ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Again I must decline to answer for the reasons stated. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you ever have a Communist Party card ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Same answer, ]Mr. Congressman, for the same reason. 

Mr. Scherer. Not since 1948, of course, because they have not issued 
any, but did you have a Communist Party card prior to 1948 ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I must decline to answer that question for the reasons 
stated. 

Mr. Clardy. May I interject this : Mr. Counsel, am I not correct that 
Bereniece Baldwin, in her 1952 testimony, identified this witness? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is correct. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness, in the interval since the committee hearings 
approximately 2 years ago, the hearings of this committee, in which 
Mrs. Baldwin did identify you as a member of the Communist Party, 
have you made any request of this committee that you be afforded an 
opportunity to appear and deny that charge ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I have not. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you made any effort to institute any proceedings 
in court or anywhere else seeking to put before either the court or the 
public anything to contradict the statements made by Mrs. Baldwin ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I think that it would be fruitless — — 

Mr. Clardy. No, that isn't the question, whether you think it would 
be that or not. 

Mr. Shapiro. That is the reason I have. 

Mr. Clardy. You haven't made the efl'ort. You have answered the 
question now. 

Mr. Shapiro. That is the reason I have. 

Mr. Clardy. Am I to understand from that then that you have no 
confidence whatever in the courts of this land and their ability to 
afford — not their ability, but their willingness to afford you a fair 
opportunity to clear your name of any aspersions that you might feel 
as a result of her testimony or that of anyone else ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Mr. Congressman, in view of the present hysteria 
about the Communist situation, which this committee has aided, T 



5480 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

think that my confidence has been sadly shaken, especially since the 
conviction of our international president. 

Mr. Clardt. In other words, you have no faith in that part of the 
American system ^Yhich we call the judiciary, have you ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Do you think it is impossible for jurists to be intimi- 
dated? 

Mr. Clardy. Just answer that question. You have no faith in our 
tripartite 

Mr. Shapiro. I have complete faith in the constitutional preroga- 
tives established by our Constitution and Bill of Eights. I have com- i 
plete faith in the jury system. I have complete faith in the wisdom 
and understanding of the American people to judge any political 
party or any organization on the basis of their performance for the 
needs of the people. 

I have that faith. If you ask me if I have faith in individual poli- 
ticians, judges, lawyers, or Congressmen, I must say, in all honesty, 
I seldom have faith in such people, in many such people. 

Mr. Clardy. You really have no faith at all in either the Congress 
or the courts, have you ? j 

Mr. Shapiro. I have faith in Congress, I have faith in our Consti- " 
tution which provides for the election of Congress in a democratic 
manner, and I assert it. I am sorry that sometimes I have to elect 
men like Congressman Clardy with whom I disagree in many ways, 
but that is the prerogative of the people, and as long as you are 
elected by the people as Congressman, I will respect you as such and 
of course I will work hard to help defeat you. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, I might say that you are joined by at least some 
of the defendants that were recently convicted in Detroit who told 
me in the corridor down there during the process of the trial they 
would be most happy to, and in fact would, try to clef eat me if I dared 
to run again. I am happy to have that kind of opposition, I assure 
you, but to come back to the question that I was trying to get an answer 
to, you have no faith at all in either the courts or the Congress unless 
they decide cases or hold hearings as you wish them; isn't that the 
substance of what you are saying ? 

Mr. Shapiro. No. it is not. 
. Mr. Clardy. It isn't? 

Mr. Shapiro. No, it isn't. 

Mr. Clardy. All right. Now, you were not only identified by 
Bereniece Baldwin, you have been identified by others. Have you 
made at any time any effort to correct the record, public or otherwise, 
concerning that identification ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I don't think that I should dignify the words of paid 
informers, and I must repeat the word "informer," and I wish you 
could give me a better one. 

Mr. Clardy. Then I take it you have not been at all upset or dis- 
turbed by the fact that you have been identified as a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Shapiro. I have been disturbed and upset insofar as it has af- 
fected the work of my organization to which I am utterly devoted. 

Mr. Clardy. But not disturbed sufficiently to do anything about it; 
in other words, to get what the Communists are continually crying out 
about, a day in court. You haven't been sufficiently disturbed to try 
to do that, have you ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5481 

(At this point Mr. Shapiro conferred with Mr. Maki.) 

Mr. Clardy. Let the matter pass. Will you proceed, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I must decline to answer on the grounds previously 
stated. 

IVIr. Tavenner. It is not a question of dignifying so-called inform- 
ers in answering that question. 

Mr. Shapiro. I stated, Mr. Tavenner, that in view of the unfair and 
unjust conviction of our international president, no man is safe in 
answering that question. Besides being unsafe, it is an invasion into 
the area of personal rights, the right of association, the right of free- 
dom of speech, and the right of freedom of press. I don't intend to 
lend this committee any assistance in destroying that section of our 
Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. Not if it means uncovering Communist Party activ- 
ities ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Mr. Tavenner, if there is anything illegal which has 
been done by me or any other alleged Communist, why don't they 
prosecute them ? Why don't you bring forth an indictment, prosecute 
and convict them? If you feel there is anything illegal that I have 
done, I welcome such an indictment. 

Mr. Clardy. May I point out the inconsistency of your position. 
Mr. Gold was tried and was convicted, and now you ask us why do 
not the people in government do something about it. They did, and 
you don't like that. 

Mr. Shapiro. Well, in a few months. Representative, when the 
higher courts reverse the decision of the lower court in Washington, 
perhaps you will withdraw that question. 

Mr. Clardy. Well, we will wait 



Mr, Shapiro. I don't believe that Ben Gold's conviction will stand. 

Mr. Clardy. We will wait and see. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage in Communist Party activities in 
conjunction with a group of the Communist Party known as the Pro- 
gressive Club of the Communist Party in the downriver section of 
Detroit? 

Mr. Shapiro. If I were to say, Mr. Tavenner — if I were to say that 
I never hear of the Progressive Club of the downriver section of the 
Communist Party — you already have evidence from a friendly witness 
to the effect that I was a member of it, and I would be indicted for — 
what — perjury ? I would, wouldn't I ? How can I answer that ques- 
tion ? I must decline to answer it under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Clardy. You couldn't be convicted of perjury unless a jury of 
your peers were convinced that you had lied. 

Mr. Shapiro. I have no illusion as to whose word would be taken in 
that case. 

Mr. Clardy. There is an old Biblical saying about men fleeing when 
no one pursueth. It seems to me that that applies distinctly here. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have asked you various questions about Com- 
munist Party membership on your part at definite times. I would 
like to ask you now whether you have been a member of the Com- 
munist Party at any time other than those which I called your atten- 
tion to. 



5i82 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Mr. Shapiro. Again I must decline to answer under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions — yes, I do have one 
further question. Were you acquainted with Barbara Springer? 
(At this point Mr. Shapiro conferred with Mr. Maki.) 

Mr. Shapiro. My counsel advises me that I should refuse to identify 
her under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, do you refuse to identify her ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Wasn't she a witness before this committee in some 
hearings in Ohio ? 

Mr. Clardy. At Columbus. 

Mr. Shapiro. Columbus, Ohio. 

Mr. Clardy, We were present. 

Mr. Shapiro. Wasn't an allegation there made that she was a Com- 
munist or that her husband was ? 

Mr. Clardy. She was identified as your secretary, among other 
things. 

Mr. Shapiro. She was my secretary, but 

Mr. Clardy. And slie, I believe, herself, so said. 

Mr. Shapiro. Well, I confirm it then. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she a member of the Communist Party to your 
knowledge ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I must decline to answer that question for the reasons 
stated. 

Mr. Taa'enner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. I think we should note on the record the fact that 
Barbara Springer you referred to was the wife of Byron Thorwell 
Darling who was a professor at one time at MSC and then left and 
went to Ohio, I believe, State University at Columbus, and who 
appeared twice before our committee. Now, in saying that, despite 
the fact that they were both identified as members of the Communist 
Party along with the sister of Barbara Springer, there is no intention 
on the part of the committee to in any way infer that the campus of 
MSC is infested with Communists or that there is a bad situation there 
because that it not our belief. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you include Ohio State in that also ? 

Mr. Clardy. We most distinctly do because justice was meted out 
down there, as you will recall, after the second hearing which we held. 

Mr. ScHERER. We made that statement at the time with reference to 
Ohio State. That is in the record. 

Mr. Tavenner. I knew that it was, but I thought it ought also to 
be in the record here. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you have any questions, Mr. Scherer ? 

Mr. Scherer. Just going back, weren't you State director at one 
time? 

Mr. Shapiro. I explained that. Congressman, that since I am the 
only organizer in the State of Michigan, some of the members of the 
union may have loosely referred to me as State director. There is no 
such official designation. 

Mr. Scherer. Wasn't there at one time ? 

Mr, Shapiro. There never was. 

Mr. Scherer. Then when the Taft-Hartley Act became effective, 
isn't it a fact that they abolished the title of State director? 

Mr. Shapiro. No ; that is not the fact. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5483 

Mr. ScHERER. That is not the fact ? 

Mr. Shapiro. That is not the fact. This I speak from my own 
knowledge. 

Mr. ScHERER. Didn't you receive mail directed to you as the State 

director at one time ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I can't say for sure. I may have, and if I ever did, 
it was a mistaken designation. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now let me ask you the question, did you ever sign 
any correspondence as State director ? 

Mr. Shapiro. I doubt it very much. 

Mr. Scherer. You wouldn't say that you didn't ? 

Mr. Shapiro. Maybe in a moment of vanity, I may have consid- 
ered myself a State director and so signed myself, but I doubt it. 

Mr. Scherer. That is all. 

Mr. Clardt. Do you have anything further ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I have nothing further, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clardy. Witness dismissed. 

A witness, in fact two witnesses, subpenaed to appear before the 
committee and carried over until the hearings here in Lansing, will 
not be called at this time. One of them has already been excused, the 
husband, because of necessity for medical treatment. I took the testi- 
mony of the other witness, the wife, and husband also, in executive 
session quite some time ago, and I think that we will incorporate that 
eventually in the record of the proceedings after the full committee 
acts. 

But I do have one other matter I want to bring to the attention 
of the committee through tliis record. Last week a member of the 
staff of the Lansing State Journal received through the mail of a docu- 
ment, together with an accompanying letter. That brings to mind 
something that I want to call attention to everyone who will read this 
report and anyone who will read the press reports and who will hear 
this on either radio or television. This committee in past years has 
recommended a great number of specific things that should l3e done 
in meeting the menace of communism, and one of those things we 
think is extremely important, and the matter we have just picked up 
deals with it. 

Mr. Counsel, you are undoubtedly familiar, because you have been 
with the committee longer than I have, with the committee recom- 
mendation made as long ago as in January 1941 that there be legis- 
lation enacted to place restriction on the distribution of totalitarian 
propaganda, especially when it involves any cost to the American 
taxpayer, and as a result, the Internal Security Act of 1950 does have 
in it a provision dealing with that. 

Now, in addition to that, the committee has also made a recommen- 
dation, made back in 1947, January 2, that the House request that 
certain second-class mailing privileges be revoked, and then again 
in 1947. While no bill has yet been enacted, and that is what I have 
in mind, the committee recommended that there be legislation deny- 
ing the use of second-class mailing privileges to any group of persons 
or organizations engaged in the publication, distribution, or promo- 
tion of subversive or un-American propaganda. In the regort pub- 
lished this year for the year 1953, bearing publication date of Febru- 



5484 COM]VIUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICBCEGAN 

ary 6, 1954, I call attention to the fact that we made this 
recommendation : 

The committee further recommends that legislation be enacted forbidding 
the use of United States mails under second-class mailing privileges to subver- 
sive publications emanating either from foreign sources or from sources within 
the borders of the United States. It is also recommended that the Internal 
Security Act of 1950 be amended to permit the citing of such publications as 
subversive. 

I have brought those to the record and have commented on it because 
the literature in question has suggested to me the possibility of a still 
further recommendation that I think will tie in with those the com- 
mittee has already made, and parenthetically I think I should remark 
that the recommendations I have mentioned are only one of a long 
string. It takes many pages to detail them in their entirety. But 
the letter in question came in an envelope marked only on the outside 
with the words "Post office box 87, Cooper Station, New York 3, New 
York," no identification whatsoever to demonstrate that within it was 
subversive propaganda, and it bears above the stamp section 33.66, 
postal laws and regulation, which indicates they have had the benefit 
of the mailing privileges at the cost to the taxpayers of the United 
States. 

They have had that benefit so that they might mail out subversive 

Propaganda. The letter itself is headed at the top "Communist Party, 
I. S. A." It is signed by William Z. Foster, Elizabeth Gurley Flynn,. 
and Pettis Perry. If I remember correctly, there is something that 
happened to at least a couple of those people, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. TA%T3]srNNER. All 3 were indicted. Foster was not tried be- 
cause of illness. The other two were tried and convicted. 

Mr. Claedy. That is right. Now, enclosed with that letter was a 
document entitled "The American Way to Jobs, Peace, and Democ- 
racy," and to those of you who read the local press, you have un- 
doubtedly noted from letters to the editor the fact that those letters 
used precisely that language repeatedly. In this document — and I 
shall not read it because I am going to have it made an exhibit to 
attach to what we are doing here — but I do want to bring into the 
record something that I think sums up in a fashion what I am trying- 
to get at. 

Here is a sentence or two : 

One-third of mankind is emancipated from imperialist oppression and capitalist 
exploitation and has taken the path of socialism. The rise of the Soviet Union, 
its tremendous industrial and cultural advance, the victory of the Chinese people 
and the peoples of Eastern Europe prove that socialism is here to stay and is 
indestructible. 

In others words, they are praising the Communist victory all over 
the world wherever they may have achieved any, in China and in 
Europe, and they speak of the fact that socialism is here to stay and 
that there has been an emancipation, as Congressman Scherer suggests, 
even in Korea, where we had about 140,000 casualties, and then they 
say this, and I hope everyone within the area who becomes acquainted 
with these proceedings will understand why we are so gravely dis- 
turbed, Tyhy this committee is so gravely concerned. 

They say this : 

There can be no hope for a lasting peace and world disarmament without 
accepting the principle of peaceful coexistence between the capitalist U. S. A.. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 5485 

and the socialist Soviet Union. This must include people's China, the established 
and effective government of the gi-eat Chinese nation, 

and then tliey go on and say at another point that all they are talking 
about also means hands off in Guatemala. They indulge in a little bit 
of the tirade that you have heard here on the stand when they urge an 
■end to the witch-hunting and the abolition of all congressional com- 
mittees, and then they say this : 

Amnesty must be granted to Eugene Dennis, Benjamin J. Davis, Gus Hall, and 
the other Communist leaders and victims of McCarthyism ; the attempts to out- 
law the Communist Party and to deprive Communists of their citizenship rights 
must be defeated. The Smith and McCarran Acts should be repealed. 

Now, I brought that to the attention of the committee and to those 
who may read our report to let it be seen that this committee has 
in mind a great many things that we think the Congress can do, and 
one of them that I shall urge is to reenforce the already quoted reso- 
lution of the committee. I shall urge that hereafter no Communist 
propaganda or literature of any kind shall be permitted to be cir- 
culated under the second class mailing privileges under any cir- 
cumstances, that it shall not be mailed unless it is plainly lettered 
in letters of flaming red on the outside that it is Communist propa- 
ganda, and in the alternative, if I can impress upon the other Mem- 
bers of Congress, I shall urge that it be absolutely barred and pro- 
hibited from being transported under any circumstance or condition 
if that can be accomplished without endangering the rights of a free 
people to disseminate proper information. 

I recognize the difficulty of enforcement. It may be necessary to 
amend the things I have said, but the objective will not be changed. 

Then I want to note one further thing, Mr. Tavenner, because it 
pleases me, and I am sure it will you. You have just read the 
other day in the paper, in fact within the week, that the Attorney 
General is now creating a special division in the Department of 
Justice to deal with subversive matters. 

Well, I would just like to call attention to the genesis of that idea. 
On January 2, 1947, this committee said, in its recommendations : 

The Department of Justice be required by lavsr to establish within the Depart- 
ment a special division devoted to the prosecution of subversive elements now 
operating in the United States. 

It apparently hasn't taken a law to accomplish it, but at least we 
sparked the idea. 

Now, is there anything further to come before the hearing at this 
time and place that you know of ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Nothing at this time, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Clakdy. Will the audience remain quiet while I conclude the 
announcements. 

Tomorrow morning the committee will resume its sessions in the 
supervisor's room in the courthouse at Flint, Mich. I am a little bit 
uncertain as to whether we set the subpena time for 9 : 30 or 10 : 00. 
Do you recall, Mr. Appell ? 

Mr. Appell. I think 9 : 30. 

Mr. Clardy. Yes, I recall. The hour will be 9 : 30 a. m. All wit- 
nesses that have been subpenaed to appear in Flint will appear at 
that hour and at that place. 



5486 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN 

Unless we have otherwise directed by new siibpenas or by tele- 
grams or other means of communication, the witnesses will appear at 
that time and place. 

The hearing is now adjourned until tomorrow morning at the hour 
set. 

(Whereupon, at 2:37 p. m., the hearing was recessed until 9:30 
a. m., Wednesday, May 12, 1954.) 



INDEX TO PART 7 



Individuals Page 

Aslie, Harold 5459 

Baker, Paul Koss 5453 

Baldwin, Bereniece 5434, 5466 

Bush, Robert ' 5427 

Carter, William T 5434 

Crowley, Francis X 5447 

Darling, Byron Tliorwell 5416-5419, 5422, 5428, 5425-5429, 5482 

Davis, Benjamin J 5485 

Davis, Richard Lawrence (see also Jones, Hedley Yukon; McCoy, Roy; 

Patterson, Hedley) 5456-5470 (testimony) 

Dennis, Anna 5430 

Dennis, Eugene 5485 

Dobrinec, Goldie (see also Gregurek, Goldie Zora)_' 5422 

Dobrinec, Joe 5430 

Dryanski, Virginia 5422 

Feinglass, Abe 5471-5474 

Flynn, Elizabeth Gurley 5434 

Foster, William Z ~ 5454 

Fox, George 5422 

Fox, Richard 5422,5427,5448-5456 (testimonv)" 

Gainor, Charles 5417 5425 

Gladstone, Marvin H ' 5444 

Glenn, Virginia 5420 

Gold, Ben ~ '5478,5481 

Goodman, Ernest 5421 

Gregurek, Frank 5423-5430 (testimony) 

Gregurek, Goldie Zora (see also Dobrinec, Goldie) 5415, 

5416-5423 (testimony), 5454 

Hall, Gus 54§5 

Hill, Charles A h^O 

Houston, Betty '5434 

Hmiston, John C 5432-5448 (testimony) 

Jefferson, Curtis 542(5 

Jones, Hedley Yukon (see also Davis, Richard Lawrence) 5457 5458 

Leitson, xMorton 5415 5416, 5423 

Leonard, Archie G 5432 5433 

Lippitt, Alvin N _"' 5443 

Lucas, Jack A ^444 

Maki, E. William """ 5470 

McAllister, Verna 54^9 

McCoy, Roy (see also Davis, Richard Lawrence) 5458 5459 

Mikkelsen, Harold 5^52, 5453/ 5477 

Nelson, Steve 5454 5455 

Nowak, Stanley 549Q 

Patterson. Hedley (see also Davis, Richard Lawrence) I 5459 

Jayne, John Burnette 5421, 5426 

Perry, Pettis 54j^4 

Pierce, Barnard 545^!^ 

Pierce, Martin ^ rj448 

Rosser, Lou ~ IIIIIII 5459 

Rowlson, Robert 5466 

Schnaar, Mitchell IIIIIII 5456 

Shaffer, Edward 543"4 5444 

Shapiro, Harold L 5455, 5470"-54"s"6'(tesfiniony) 



ii INDEX 

Page 

Shore, Jerome 5421 

Silver, Max 5459 

Springer, Barbara 5482 

Taft, Lois 5429 

Terrelo, James R 5443, 5444 

Whitford, Gerald O 5422 

Wriglit, Arthur 5419, 5425, 5426, 5429 

Wright, Dorothy 5421 

Organizations and Publications 

American State Bank, Lansing, Mich 5416 

Civil Rights Congress 5466 

Committee for Civil Rights 5445 

Communist Party, Michigan 5417, 5425, 5434, 5468 

Ann Arbor Town Club 5439 

Downriver section 5481 

Ford section 5477, 5478 

Lower East Side section 5466 

New Haven Club 5467 

Oakland Club 5467 

Progressive Club 5481 

Ralph Neafus Club 5434, 5435, 5439 

State Central Committee 5422, 5467 

Communist Party, Michigan (Lansing) 5419 

Communist Party, Los Angeles County 5459 

Croatian Fraternal Union 5430 

Daily Worker 5429 

Federal Bureau of Investigation 5452 

Immigration and Naturalization Service 5466 

Independent Progressive Party, Michigan 5420, 5421, 5442 

Independent Progressive Party, Michigan State Committee 5420, 5427 

International Fur and Leather Workers Union of the United States and 

Canada 5470, 5471, 5475 

Interrracial Association, University of Michigan chapter 5445 

John Bean Corp 5424 

Lansing State Journal : 5449, 5483 

Michigan School of Social Science 5468 

Michigan State College 5416-5419, 5421, 5422, 5425-5427, 5440, 5452, 5453, 5482 

Nash-Kelvinator 5424 

National Lawyers Guild 5439, 5440, 5441 

National Lawyers Guild, University of Michigan chapter 5441 

Ohio State University 5482 

Precision Boring Tool Co., Lansing, Mich 5425 

Town Club, Lansing 5439 

University of Michigan 5433, 5439, 5442, 5443, 5445, 5447 

Wilcox-Rich Co., Battle Creek, Mich 5426 

Young Communist League 5417, 5421, 5425, 5458, 5462 

Young Communist League, California 5460 

Young Communist League, Los Angeles, Calif 5459, 5460 

Young Communist League, national committee 5459 

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