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Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the State of Florida. Hearings"

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INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
STATE OF FLORIDA— Part 2 



HEARING 



BEFORE THE 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 



EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



DECEMBER 1, 1954 



Printed for the use of the Committee on ITn-American Activities 



INCLUDING INDEX 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
55634 WASHINGTON : 1955 




Boston Public Library 
Superintendent of Documents 

FEB 2 1955 



•.V\' 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives 

HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois, Chairman 

BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York FRANCIS B. WALTER, Pennsylvania 

DONALD L. JACKSON, California MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri 

KIT CLARDY, Michigan CLYDE DOYLE, California 

GORDON H. SCHBRER, Ohio JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee 

ROBERT L. KuNziR, Counscl 

FRANK S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel 

Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk 

Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research 

Courtney E. Owens, Chief Investigator 

n 



CONTENTS 



December 1, 1954, testimony of — Page 

Mariano Rodriguez 7405 

Joseph Soloman 7412 

Frank Fernandez 7419 

Hilda Shlafrock 7423 

James Nimmo 7426 

Afternoon session 7440 

James Nimmo (resumed) 7440 

Lois Baker 7448 

Harvey G. Baker 7453 

Index i 

III 



Public Law 601, TQth Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, T9th Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d. session, which provides : 

Be it enacted iy the Senate arid House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Conffress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 
******* 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 
* * * * * * * 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a wliole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to malve from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attaclis the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together witli such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings.^ to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

V 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 83D CONGRESS 
House Resolution 5, January 3, 1958 

* 1)1 :|c :|c 4c 4< * 

RtTLE X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con- 
gress, the following standing committees : 

•* « 4: * * 4: * 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

:k 4c 4: :{: :{£ :)c 4: 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 



17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session ) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it det?ms advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 

VI 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
STATE OF FLOKIDA— Part 2 



WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 1, 1954 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Miami, Fla. 

PUBLIC hearing 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to call, 
at 9 : 30 a. m., in the main courtroom, Federal Building, Miami, Fla., 
Hon. Harold H. Velde, chairman, presiding. 

Connnittee members present : Representatives Harold H. Velde, Kit 
Clardy, Gordon H. Sclierer, Clyde Doyle. 

Staff members present: Robert L. Kunzig, counsel; Thomas W. 
Beale, Sr., chief clerk ; Raphael I. Nixon, director of research ; Earl 
Fuoss, investigator ; W. Jackson Jones, investigator. 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order. Let the record show 
that I have appointed a subcommittee consisting of Mr. Scherer, Mr. 
Clardy, Mr. Doyle and myself for the purpose of this hearing. Wlio 
is the next witness, Counsel ? 

Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Mariano Rodriguez. 

Mr. Velde. Stand and be sworn, please. In the testimony you are 
about to give before this committee, do you solemnly swear you will 
tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Rodriguez, I do. 

Mr. Velde. Be seated. 

Mr. Kunzig. Would you state your full name, please ? 

TESTIMONY OF MARIANO RODEIGUEZ, ACCOMPANIED BY 
QUENTIN T. ELDRED, HIS COUNSEL 

Mr. Rodriguez. Mariano Rodriguez. 

Mr. Kunzig, Would you give us your present address, please. 

Mr. Rodriguez. Here or in Tampa? 

Mr, Kunzig, Your home where you live, 

Mr, Rodriguez, 2020 Twelfth Avenue, Tampa, Fla. 

Mr, Kunzig, I see you are represented by counsel. Would counsel 
please state his name and address for the record. 

Mr. Eldred. Quentin T. Eldred, 517 Security Building, 

Mr. Kunzig. Would you give the coijimittee a brief background of 
your education and tell us about your schooling. 

Mr. Rodriguez. I will say junior high school during the day time; 
and I studied at nighttime after work. 

7405 



7406 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. KuNziG. How far did you go in school ? How many years? 

Mr. Rodriguez. During the day ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Your complete schooling; was it 9 or 12 years? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Nine or ten years. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where were you born, sir? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Tampa, Fla. 

Mr. KuNziG. Give us a brief resume, please, of your employment 
background; where you worked T mean. 

Mr. Rodriguez. Mainly in cigar factories. 

Mr. KuNziG. What cigar factory? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I worked in a factory for about 16 years, to the 
best of my knowledge. 

Mr. KuNziG. What was the name of the factory ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Courall Wodiska & Co. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that where you work now ? 

Mr. Rodriguez, No, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG, You worked there how many years? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Fourteen or fifteen years. 

Mr. KuNziG. Then where did you work? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Then I worked in the shipyards. 

Mr. KuNziG. "\'Vliere? 

Mr. RoRiGUEz. In Tampa. 

Mr. KuNziG. What type of work did you do there ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Helper, shipfitter helper. 

Mr. KuNziG. After you worked there what was your next 
employment ? 

Mr. RoDRiGui:z. All this time all different cigar factories during the 
day and at nighttime I went to school there. 

Mr. KuNziG. What type of school ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. It was a kind of private school ; and thei-e I learned 
some kind of bookkeeping. So. when I left the shipyard I was em- 
ployed as a bookkeeper in a cigar factory. 

Mr. KuNziG. What cigar factory employed you as a bookkeeper? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Pedro Perez. 

Mr, KuNziG. How long did you work there? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I think 3 or 4 years. 

Mr. KuNziG. Continue. 

Mr. Rodriguez. Then I worked at this factory again, Courall 
Wodiska, making cigars. 

Mr. Kunzig. And that is where you worked to now ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. That is where I worked to now. 

Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Rodriguez, as you know you have been named 
before this committee as having been a member of the Communist 
Party. We want everyone to have an opportunity to speak in his own 
behalf; and an opportunity to tell the committee whether that is true 
or not- Now, I ask you : Have you ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that question on my constitu- 
tional rights. 

Mr. Kunzig. On the grounds of the fifth amencbnent, you mean ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Yes, sir. 

jNIr. Kunzig. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7407 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know Jose Ta.margo who testified here yes- 
terday ? 

Mr. EoDRiGUEZ. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know Edwin Waller who testified here the 
day before yesterday? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you present in the courtroom here when those 
men testified ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Yes, sir. 

(At this point Mr. Rodriguez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. KuNZiG. Did you hear Edwin Waller identify you as a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that question. 

(At this point Mr. Rodriguez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that identification a correct identification? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer ; same grounds, 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you hear Jose Tamargo identify you as a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I i-efuse to answer that question. 

(At this point Mr. Rodriguez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. SciiEREK. Just a minute. I can't possibly see how answering 
that last question will incriminate this witness; the fact that he heard 
someone in this hearing room identify him as a member of the Com- 
munist Party ; and Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed 
to answer the question. 

Mr. Velde. You are directed to answer the question, Mr. Rodriguez. 

Mr. Eldred. The witness answered the question when he was asked 
if he was present when the witness testified, that he was present. Now, 
it would seem logical that the answer to the following question would 
be known to the committee since he was present. If we are going to 
inquire beyond that point, we may be opening the line of interrogiition. 

Mr. Ku'nzig. I would disagree with counsel there. The question as 
I recall it was : "Did you hear Jose Tamargo identify you as a member 
of the Communist Party ?'• He might have been in the courtroom and 
not have heard it. He has refused to answer. INIr. Scherer requested 
that he answer ; and I also request that he be directed to answer. 

Mr. Eldred. Will you please put the question which is to be an- 
swered to the witness again. 

Mr. Scherer. I think we should follow the rule with reference to 
counsel making any argument to the committee. I realize this counsel 
has been appointed by the bar association, but that doesn't increase his 
rights. 

Mr. Velde. I concur with you there, sir We do appreciate that 
you are here to ably counsel the witness; but I do have to maintain 
the rules we operate under ; and those rules provide that counsel only 
has the right to confer with his client and to give him advice. 
Mr. Eldred. I am sorry, Mr. Velde. 

Mr. KuNziG. I will put the two questions again. Mr. Rodriguez, 
were you present in the courtroom Avhen Jose Tamargo testified. 
Mr. Rodriguez. Yes, sir. 

(At this point ]\Ir. Rodriguez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 
Mr. KuNziG. Did you hear Jose Tamargo identify you as a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

55634 — 55 — pt. 2 2 



7408 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. Rodriguez. I hear part of it. 

(At this point Mr. Rodriguez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Was his identification of you as a member of the Com- 
munist Party correct ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that. 

(At this point Mr. Rodriguez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. KuNziG. On the same grounds ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. On the same grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Rodriguez, I am reading now directly from the 
testimony given yesterday by Mr, Tamargo. Mr. Tamargo was 
asked by me : "And you paid the dues and got the card, and then you 
became a member r' His answer: "That's right." "To whom did 
you pay the dues?" His answer: "I paid the dues to different in- 
dividuals there." "To which ones?" His answer: "Alfredo Rodri- 
guez, Mariano Rodriguez, Frank Fernandez * * *." I ask you now, 
did you take dues from Jose Tamargo ? 

Mr. Rodriguez, I refuse to answer on the same grounds, 

Mr, KuNziG. Was it customary for you to collect dues from the 
Communist Party members ? 

Mr, Rodriguez, I refuse to answer. Same grounds. 

Mr. Kunzig. "Wliat did you do with the money that was given to 
you by people to pay dues for the Communist Party ? 

Mr, Rodriguez. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr, Kunzig. This committee would be interested in knowing what 
that money was used for. What was the money used for that you 
collected for the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Kunzig. Was the money used in any way to further the over- 
throw of this Government by force and violence ? 

Mr. Rodriguez, I refuse to answer the question on the same 
grounds, 

Mr, Kunzig. Are you in favor of the overthrow of this Govern- 
ment by force and violence ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. What is the question, sir? 

(At this point Mr. Rodriguez conferred with Mr, Eldred.) 

Mr. Kunzig. Are you in favor of the overthrow of this Government 
by force and violence ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. No, sir. 

Mr. Kunzig. Then are you a member of the Communist Party 
which is in favor ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer; same grounds, sir. 

Mr. Kunzig. I thought so, sir. Mr. Chairman, I have no further 
questions of this witness. It is obvious he is not going to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you connected, however remotely, in any way 
with the Communist Party or any of its active fronts? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that question on my constitu- 
tional rights. 

Mr. Clardy. Do I understand correctly that you were born in 
Tampa ; a native-born American citizen ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. You have lived in the Florida area all your life ? 

Mr. Rodriguez, Almost all my life. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7409 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't hear you clearly. Have you resided any- 
where else. 

Mr. KoDRiGUEz. No, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you ever attended anything in the nature of a 
Communist school ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr, Clardy. I didn't catch what your present occupation is. What 
are you doing at the moment ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I manufacture cigars. I make cigars. 

Mr. Clardy. You own the business yourself? 

Mr. Rodriguez. No ; I work for somebody. I am a wage earner. 

Mr, Clardy, That is all I have, Mr, Chairman, 

Mr, ScHERER. What union do you now belong to ? 

Mr, Rodriguez, I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Velde. You are directed to answer the question. There is 
nothing wrong with that. 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer the question, sir, on my consti- 
tutional grounds. 

(At this point Mr, Rodriguez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. ScHERER, Do you belong to a union ? 

Mr, Rodriguez, I refuse to answer that question, sir. 

Mr. Sciierer, I ask that the witness be directed to answer the 
question, 

Mr. Velde. You are directed to answer the question, Mr. Witness. 

Mr. Rodriguez. Yes; I belong to a union. 

(At this point Mr. Rodriquez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr, Scherer. Wliat union do you belong to? 

Mr, Rodriguez, The cigar-makers' union, 

Mr, Scherer, And have you ever been an officer of that union or 
any other union? 

Mr, Rodriguez. Yes, sir; I was an officer. 

Mr. Scherer. TVliat office did you hold in the union ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I was secretary of the union. 

Mr. Scherer. When were you secretary of the union, approxi- 
mately ? 

Mr, Rodriguez, I think it was in 1939, 

Mr, Scherer, Have you held any other office with the union ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Well, I was temporary chairman. 

Mr. Scherer, Is that all ? Are those all the offices you held ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. That is right, sir. 

Mr, Scherer. While you were an officer of the union were you a 
member of the Communist Party? 

Mr, Rodriguez, I refuse to answer that question, sir, 

Mr, Scherer, Did the Communist Party ever give you any instruc- 
tions with reference to activities of the union ? 

Mr, Rodriguez, I refuse to answer that question, sir, 

Mr, Scherer, If you were not a member of the Communist Party, 
would you so state? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Scherer. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde, Mr, Doyle? 



7410 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. Doyle. I noticed when counsel asked you whether or not you 
heard the testimony of the witness who identified you as a member 
of the Communist Party yesterday, you replied, "Part of it." I 
couldn't tell from that answer what part of the identifying testimony 
of the witness identifying you, j^ou had heard. Did you hear that 
part of the testimony in which he identified you as a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Yes, sir. 

(At this point Mr. Rodriquez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. DoYUE. Was his identification of you correct? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Doyle. Was he telling the truth when he identified you as a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that question, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. In answering the question of one of my colleagues as 
to whether or not you were a member of a union, you gave the name 
of the cigarmakers union. Do you i-emember that? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. And when you were asked if you were a member of the 
Communist Party you claimed the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer the question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Doyle. I haven't asked the question yet. 

Mr. Rodriguez. Excuse uie. I am hard of hearing. 

Mr. Doyle. I recognize that you are ready to plead the amendment 
but don't do it before I ask you the question please. 

Mr. Rodriguez. I beg your pardon. 

Mr. Doyle. Why did you state with some pride tliat you were a 
member of tlie cigarmakers union and refuse to answer the question 
on whetlier or not you were a member of the Commmiist Party? Is 
there a difference? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I i-ef use to answer that question. 

Mr. Doyle. What is the difference between the function of your 
union and that of the Counnunist Party? Why did you ])lead tlie 
fifth amendment on the Communist Party but not on your union ^ 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer tliat question, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. I know there is a great difference. I think you, with a 
great deal of pride, clarified the difference. T hope you don't want 
the union tied up with the (^omnnmist Party in any way. Of course, 
we have evidence to the fact that many' of you in the union are also 
leaders in the Communist Party. That is one of the games of thi}- 
Communist Party, to get the union leaders more loyal to the Com- 
munist Party than to the union. The purpose of this question — and 
I am assuming that you are interested in uncovering any subversive 
act or intent in the Florida area by any person or any group of per- 
sons — Do you know of any activities by the Communist Party in 
Florida? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that question, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. At the time you were an officer in the cigarmakers 
union did you observe any activities of the Communists in the union 
toward trying to control it ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you now an officer of that union ? 

INIr. Rodriguez. No, sir. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7411 

(At this point Mr. Rodriguez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Doyle. How long is it since you have been ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Oh, since 1939, 1 tliink ; 1938 or 1939. 

Mr. Doyle. How long is it since you have been a member of the 
Communist Party in Florida? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that (fuestion, sir. 

(At this point Mr. Rodriguez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Doyle. I think that is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Rodriguez, have you ever been a member of the 
armed services? 

Mr. Rodriguez. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. In the event of a shooting war, if the United States 
was on one side and Soviet Russia on the other, would you fight for 
the United States or Soviet Russia ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. Well, I would fight for my country. 

(At this point Mv. Rodriguez conferred with Mv. Eldred.) 

]\Ir. Velde. Your country is the United States of America? 

Mr. Rodriguez. My country is my country. I will tight to keep it 
right. If it is wrong, to put it right. 

Mr. ClxVRdy. How is that? 

Mr. Rodrigitez. I will fight for my country. 

Mr. Clardy. You said something about wrong and right. I didn't 
get that. 

Mr. Rodriguez. If it is wrong to put it right ; and if it is right, I will 
fight for my country. 

Mr. Clardy. You will fight for your country, right or wrong. 

Mr. Rodriguez. I will fight for my country. 

Mr. Velde. Apparently you are not answering questions telling of 
your past communistic activities. 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you consider the Connnunist Party and the actions 
of the Communist Pai'ty to be right, as you just said, to keep it right; 
to keep things right ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that question. 

(At this point Mr. Rodriquez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

JMr. KuNZiG. Were you ever expelled from your union for Com- 
munist activities ? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer the question, sir. 

(At this point Mr. Rodriguez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mr. Rodriguez, isn't it a fact that you were expelled 
from the union for Communist activities and later reinstated? 

Mr. Rodriguez. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Vlede. The witness will be excused. Call the next witness, 
Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mr. Joseph Soloman. 

Mr. Velde. Will you raise your right hand, [)lease. In the testi- 
mony you are about to give before this subcommittee, do you solemnly 
swear to tell the truth, the whole trath, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I do. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Would you state your name, please. 



7412 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH SOLOMAN 

Mr. SoLOMAN. Joseph Soloman. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your address, please, Mr. Soloman? 

Mr. Soloman. 817 Meridian Avenue, Miami Beach. 

Mr. KuNziG. I note that you are not accompanied by counsel, Mr. 
Soloman. Everybody has the right of counsel. Do you desire to 
testify without counsel ? 

Mr. SoLoaiAN. To be honest, in observing the last few days counsel 
can do very little and I can't afford it. 

Mr. Clardy. I want to put you straight about what counsel can 
do here. Counsel has the right to advise you constantly of your rights. 
lie sits right there at your side and advises you which is actually not 
permitted in a court of law. Actually, you have more rights than in a 
court of law. He can even put words right in your ear and you can 
be advised on every question as to your legal and constitutional rights. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you testify without counsel ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I am sure the committee won't let me go astray. 

Mr. ScHERER. Go astray ? 

Mr. Soloman. I mean on my constitutional rights the committee 
won't let me go astray. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wliat is your present occupation ? 

Mr. Soloman. Tailor. 

Mr. KuNziG. ^^lere is your tailor shop ? 

Mr. Soloman. 317 23d Street, Miami Beach. 

Mr. KuNziG, Where were you born, Mr. Soloman ? 

Mr. Soloman. Ukraine. You can call it Russia; part of Russia. 

Mr. Kunzig. That was part of Russia when you were born? 

Mr. Soloman. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. It is that part of Russia called White Russia? 

Mr. Soloman. I don't think so. 

Mr. Kunzig. When did you come to this counti*y, Mr. Soloman ? 

Mr. Soloman. In 1913. 

Mr. Kunzig. Are you today a citizen ? 

Mr. Soloman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kunzig. Wlien did you become a citizen? 

]\Ir. SoL03iAN. November 1938. 

Mr. Kunzig. You were not a citizen from 1913 to 1938? 

Mr. Soloman. No. 

Mr. Kunzig. Where did you become a citizen in 1938 ? 

Mr. Soloman. In Massachusetts ; Boston. 

Mr. Kunzig. How long have you lived in Miami or this area? 

Mr. Soloman. Since 1942. 

Mr. Kunzig. Have you been in the tailoring business the entire 
time? 

Mr. Soloman. All the time. 

Mr. Kunzig. Give me a brief resume of your education or schooling. 

Mr. Soloman. I come here in 1913. I was a young fellow, maybe 18. 
I didn't have the opportunity to get a high education. I had to go to 
work immediately. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you go to school in Russia at all ? 

Mr. Soloman. No, I'm sorry. We were under the Czar and there 
was not much opportunity to go to school. I had to go to work and 1 



COMMUlSriST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7413 

had some niglit school ; but at nights I cannot go much. In our busi- 
ness the work comes seasonal when we have to work nights. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did I understand you correctly to say that under the 
Czar you had little opportunity for schooling ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. That is right. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you think that condition has improved over 
there? 

]Mr. SoLOMAN. I haven't lived under the condition now. I don't 
know. 

Mr. ScHERER. You say you have no knowledge, then, of present 
conditions ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. No. 

Mr. ScHERER. Then you don't mean to draw any comparisons by 
your answer? 

Mr. SoLOMAx. No, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. When were you born ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. 1895. 

Mr. Clardy. You left there in what year ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. 1913. 

Mr. Clardy. Then you left before the revolution by some 4 years? 

JNIr. SoLOMAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. You never lived under the Soviet regime ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. Xo, sir. 

Mr. Clardy.. You have no comparison of how Russia existed when 
you lived there and how it exists now? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. Specifically not. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mr. Soloman, you appeared before this committee or 
.a subcommittee of this committee in Miami, Fla., on March 3, 1948, 
Is that correct? 

Mr. Soloman. That is correct. 

Mr. KuNzTG. You were sworn in and testified at that time? 

]Mr. Soloman. That is correct. * 

Mr. KuNziG. You testified at an executive session at that time which 
was not made public? 

Mr, Soloman. That is correct. 

Mr, KuNziG. Let me ask you if you have ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Soloman. I would like to invoke the fifth amendment, because 
the answer might tend to incriminate me, 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Soloman. I refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. KuNziG, Let me ask you this, Mr. Soloman. This is most in- 
teresting, T think. On March 3, 1948, you were asked by this com- 
mittee : "Mr, Soloman, have you ever been a member of the Commu- 
nist Party in the United States?" And you said "No." "Why have 
you changed your answer today ? 

Mr, Soloman. I won't answer on the same ground. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Were you telling the truth when you said under 
oath, "No," you were not a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr, Soloman. I won't answer on the same ground. 

Mr. KuNziG. Let us tie it down to the exact date you were asked 
the question, March 3, 1948, Were you a member of the Communist 
Party on March 3, 1948, when you appeared before the subcommittee 
of this committee ? 



7414 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIEkS IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. SoLOMAx. I won't answer on the same groimd. 

]\Ir. KuNziG. Have you joined the Communist Party since 1948? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I will not answer on the same crround, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. I was not paying attention. Does he refuse to an- 
swer your question as to whether or not he has ever been a member 
of the Communist Party? 

Mr. KuNziG. That is correct, sir. He refuses to answer. 

Mr. Velde. In 1048 he denied he was a member of the Comnumist 
Party at that time or at any time before that. 

Mr. KuNziG. The question was specifically asked, "Have you ever 
been a member of the Communist Party?" And he said, "No." 

Mr. Clardy, You indicated earlier that you recall appearing before 
the committee in 1948. You now recall this specific testimony, do you 
not? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I certainly do. 

Mr. Ci^ARDY. You recall specifically that you made the answer to 
the question that has been propounded to you now? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. T do. 

Mr. Clardy. Now, having said in 1948 that you were not a member 
of the Communist Party, it obviously leaves tw^o conclusions that we 
can reach : either you were not telling the truth at that time or yon 
were telling the truth and something happened since that date. T want 
to ask you this question: Has anything happened with your relations 
with the Communist Party since you testified before this committee 
in 1948 ? 

Mr. Soloman. I won't answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Clardy. Are you acquainted with the fact that in 1948 other 
witnesses appeared before this committee in connection with a general 
investigation ? 

Mv. SoLOMAiSr. I won't answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you talkecl with any other witness who appeared 
in 1948 before this committee? 

Mr. Solo :m AN. I won't answer, 

Mr. ScHERER. When did you say you were naturalized? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. November 1938. 

Mr. SciiERER. Were you asked at the time you were natui'alized 
whether or not you were a member of the Comnumist Party? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I really don't remember. 

Mr. ScHERER. However, if you were asked, what would have been 
your answer? 

INIr. SoLOMAN. I can't answer that. 1 don't think I can answer that. 
They didn't ask me. How would T know what I would say. It would 
be impossible. 

Mr. ScHERER. Were you a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I won't answer on the same ground. 

Mr. SciiERER. You have no recollection of whether you were asked 
at that time whether you were a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. No, sir. 

INIr. SciiERER. Or whether you were a member of any organization 
dedicated to the overthrowing of this Government? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7415 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I really don't remember. I went through plenty 
since then. I had a boy killed in the last war. I had a young kid who 
died in Germany. He knew what he ^\ as fighting for. He was fight- 
ing for this country and the eliminating of the Jews by Hitler at 
that time. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you ever join the Armed Forces? 

M. SoLOMAN. No ; but I tried to join the Navy but I was refused 
on account of my teeth. I wanted to do what the boy was doing ; to 
fight at that time too. 

Mr. ScHERER. You were primarily interested in the fight against 
the Nazis, were you not ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. No, sir; this country comes first — I mean fighting 
against the Nazis. I didn't realize what I said. 

Mr. ScHERER. When did you try to join the Navy? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. Actually, right at the beginning of the war when my 
boy was called into the service. I don't remember the elate. I felt I 
wanted to join with him. I was too old for the Army. I went to join 
the Navy because I was told they wanted older men. 

Mr. ScHERER. That was before the Hitler-Stalin pact. 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I don't know anything about that, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. In view of the testimony of this witness, Mr. Chair- 
man, I think this is a matter for the executive session of this com- 
mittee to determine whether or not proceedings should be started to 
denaturalize in this case. 

Mr. Velde. The Chair concurs and the matter will be taken up at 
the executive session. 

Mr. KuNziG. You say you tried to join the Navy. Were you a 
member of the Communist Party when you tried to join the Navy? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. You were asked in 1948 if you made application to 
join the Communist Party. Let me ask you that question now. Have 
you ever made application to join the Communist Party? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer that on the same ground. 

Mr, KuNziG. AYlien you were asked in 1948 you said, "No" ; a clear, 
unequivocal "No." But your answer to the question today is that 
you refuse to answer on the ground it may incriminate you ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. That is correct. 

Mr, KuNziG. Were you in the courtroom when Mr. Waller testified 
here ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I was. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you hear Mr. Waller identify you as having been 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I did. 

Mr. KuNziG. Was he correct in his identification ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. KuNziG. I asked Mr. Waller who else was a member of the 
Communist Party and he said, "Joe Soloman." I asked him to de- 
scribe Joe Soloman further and he said, "Joe was rather a slim-built 
guy pushing his sixties. What his occupation was, I don't know. 
But I attended closed Communist Party meetings with him, sir," 
Did you ever attend closed Communist Party meetings with Mr, 
Waller? 

55634— 55— pt. 2— — 3 



7416 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Isn't it a fact that you knew Mr. Waller very well 
and that you did go to the Communist Party meetings with him and 
were a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you in favor of Communist control of the Gov- 
ernment here in America instead of the form of government we have ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you think your life is better here than if you are 
sent back to Russia, which is a possibility ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Clardt. Coming back to your prior testimony again briefly, 
at that time I gather from the record that you didn't even hesitate for 
a second to deny any connection with the Communist Party. You 
admit you recall that fact, and you answered as I have just indicated. 
Now, are we going to find you after a period of time is over issuing 
statements to the press or getting into the public attention someway 
and saying that you didn't have an opportunity to deny the things 
that have been said here by Mr. Waller and the other witnesses ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. a great many people refuse to answer before the com- 
mittee but become very voluminous when they are not under oath. I 
am wondering if you are going to be one of those who, after you are 
released from the oath of the committee, will give the answers to the 
questions you now refuse to answer. What can I expect in that 
connection ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. You volunteered the information to start with that 
the educational facilities were not all you would like under Czarist 
Russia. You were about 18 when you left there? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. Eighteen ; maybe eighteen and a half. 

Mr. Clardy. You did attend some school during that time ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. In this country. 

Mr. Clardy. None in Russia ? 

M. SoLOMAN. No ; in the Jewish school. 

Mr. Clardy. No other school other than the Jewish school in 
Russia ? 

Mr. Soloman. That is right. 

Mr. Clardy. Were you at any time subject to military service be- 
fore you left there ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. There was no draft or any sort of military training 
before you left? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. Wasn't there some kind of requirement for military 
service in Russia ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN, Twenty-one years, I think. 

Mr. Clardy. Only after you reached the age of 21, is your under- 
standing ? 

Mr. Soloman. That is my understanding. 

Mr. Clardy. You never served in the Russian Czarist Army or 
had any military training wliile you were there ? 

Mr. Soloman. No, sir. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7417 

Mr. Clardy. Have you attended any Communist school of any 
kind while in America ? 

Mr, SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you attended a Communist school devoted to 
instructions of how to sabotage and disrupt American production ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you know that the Communists conduct such a 
school ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. You say you didn't know anything about the Hitler- 
Stalin Pact? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. (Witness does not answer.) 

Mr. Clardy. Is that a fact ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. Just what I read in the papers. 

Mr. Clardy. You read in the papers that for awhile they were 
traveling down the same road, did you not ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I read in the papers what everybody knows about. 

Mr. Clardy. Since that time have you studied Communist literature 
of any kind dealing with that subject? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you subscribe to a Communist newspajjer ? 

Mr. Soloman. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Do you presently have here or at home any Commu- 
nist literature of any kind ? 

Mr. Soloman. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you received any document in the past 6 months 
or so called the American Way of Peace, and so forth ? 

Mr. Soloman. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. You won't be incriminated. Tliey send that to every- 
body ; even the members of the committee. 

Mr. Soloman. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. You never heard of it ? 

Mr. Soloman. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. No further questions. 

Mr. Doyle. You volunteered the fact that your own boy was killed 
in the last war. There are over 400 Members in the House of Repre- 
sentatives and some of those men lost their sons in the last war, too. 
Under Public Law 601, it is part of our responsibility to the American 
people and Congress to study and find out not only the extent or the 
nature of the subversive activities in the United States of the Commu- 
nist Party or any other group of persons ; but to go into the realm of 
recommendations for legislation dealing with subversive activities of 
the Communist Party or any other group. I am asking you this 
question and I am quite aware that you are taking refuge behind the 
fifth amendment in refusing to answer questions today and the fact 
that in 1948 you testified you were not a member of the Communist 
Party. I am going to ask you this — and we have not met before — 
have you any recommendation to the United States Congress so far as 
legislation is concerned in the field of subversive activities? 

Mr. Soloman. Not at this time. 

Mr. Doyle. Will we be able to get the benefit of your recommenda- 
tion later? 

Mr. Soloman. I hope so. I have no objection. 



7418 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. Doyle. I invite you to send to us your recommendations. 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I could send it through the representative of my 
district; my Congressman or Senator. 

Mr. Doyle. Will you do that and say Congressman Doyle invited 
you to send your recommendations through your Congressman of any 
legislation you may have in the field of subversive activities? Will 
you accept my invitation ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. Sure will. 

Mr. Velde. I don't want to disagree with my friend from Cali- 
fornia, but I doubt that he will. Did you belong to any youth or- 
ganizations of any kind while you were in Soviet Russia ? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. Did you attend a church? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. The Jewish church ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Velde. No one with any organization connected whatsoever? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Velde. I take it that you are going to refuse to give us any 
information whatsoever as a committee of the Congress of the United 
States. Is that true ? You are going to refuse to give any informa- 
tion whatsoever? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer all the questions you asked to now. 
Ask me more, and I will see. 

Mr. Clardy. Congressman Doyle talked about the recommendation 
for legislation. I wonder if you joined any Communist petition ask- 
ing for this committee to be abolished? 

Mr. SoLOMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Doyle. I asked for the witness's recommendation; and, of 
course, I think you gentlemen know that during the 8 years I have 
been in Congress I have always sought the opinions of men. 

Mr. Clardy. I don't think the chairman said he wouldn't recom- 
mend it. He said he doesn't see much possibility of getting it. 

Mr. Doyle. I asked this man to send in his recommendation^ in 
good faith through his own Congressman ; and I think it is very im- 
portant that I, as a member of this committee, know the ideas of this 
man. 

Mr. Clardy. We might ask him the question if he expects to make 
any recommendations to the district attorney on efforts to uncover 
communism. 

Mr. ScHERER. I rather suspect, gentlemen, you would get no reply. 
It might incriminate him. 

Mr. Velde. Anything else from this witness? 

Mr. KuNziG. Nothing further. 

Mr. Velde. The witness is excused. Wlio is your next witness, Mr. 
Counsel ? 

Mr. KuxziG. Frank Fernandez. 

Mr. Velde. Would you raise your right hand, please, and be sworn ? 
In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee, do 
you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Fernandez. I do. 

Mr. KuNziG. State your full name, please, sir. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7419 

TESTIMONY OE FEANK FERNANDEZ, ACCOMPANIED BY QUENTIN 

T. ELDRED, HIS COUNSEL 

Mr. Fernandez. Frank Fernandez. 

Mr. KuNZiG. What is your address i 

Mr. Fernandez. 1516 East Columbus Di-ive. 

Mr. KuNziG. TV^iere is that? 

Mr. Fernandez. That is in Tampa. 

Mr. Kunzig. I see you are accompanied by counsel. Would coun- 
sel once again state his name and address for the record 'i 

Mr. Eldred. Quentin T. Eldred, 517 Security Building. 

Mr. Kunzig. Where were you born, Mr. Fernandez ? 

Mr. Fernandez. In Cuba. 

Mr. Kunzig. When did you come to this country ? 

Mr. Fernandez. As my father and mother told me, I came when I 
was about 4 years okl. 

Mr. Kunzig. When did you become a citizen? 

Mr. Fernandez. I will say in 1941 or 1942. I'm not sure. 

Mr. Kunzig. 1941 or 1942. Where did you become a citizen ? 

Mr. Fernandez. In Tampa. 

Mr. Kunzig. You are a naturalized citizen? 

Mr. Fernandez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kunzig. Where did you go to scliool, JNIr. Fernandez? 

Mr. Fernandez. Grammar school. 

Mr. Kunzig. Where? 

Mr. Fernandez. Tampa. 

Mr. Kunzig. Is that the total schooling you have had ; 6 years of 
school ? 

Mr. Fernandez. I am not sure. I am not very sure. Maybe 6 or 7. 
Something like that. 

Mr. Kunzig. Where have you worked ? Tell, us the main places you 
have worked, Mr. Fernandez. 

Mr. Fernandez, I worked in the Regensburgh factory. 

Mr. Kunzig. How long did you work there ? 

Mr. Fernandez. More or less about 17 years. 

Mr. Kunzig. What sort of work did you do there, Mr. Fernandez ? 

Mr. Fernandez, I make cigars. 

Mr. Kunzig. Are you a member of a union ? 

Mr. Fernandez. Yes, sir. 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Kunzig. What union are you n member of? 

Mr. Fernandez. American Federation of Labor. 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred vrith Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Kunzig. What union I Wliat is the name of the local ? 

Mr. Fernandez. Cigar makers union. 

Mr. Kunzig. Do they have a number ? 

Mr. Fernandez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kunzig. What is it ? 

Mr. Fernandez. Five hundred. 

Mr. Kunzig. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer on the grounds that my answer 
may tend to incriminate me. I invoke the constitutional privilege 
under the fifth amendment. 



7420 COMMUNIST ACTWITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer the question on the same ground. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you present in the courtroom when Jose Ta- 
margo testified? 

Mr. Fernandez. Yes, yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you hear Jose Tamargo identify you as a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Fernandez. I heard him. 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Was that identification of you as a member of the 
Communist Party correct? 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Tamargo, Mr. Fernandez, testified he paid dues 
to various individuals and as read a few moments ago in the case of 
Mr. Kodriguez, he testified he paid dues to one Frank Fernandez. 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Kunzig. I haven't asked you yet. 

Did you collect Communist Party dues from Mr. Tamargo? 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Kunzig. Do you know Mr. Tamargo ? 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you ever see Mr. Tamargo, before yesterday? 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse. 

Mr. Kunzig. We will assume it is all on the same ground, the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Fernandez. Correct. 

Mr. Kunzig. Have you engaged in any Communist activity in your 
union, Mr. Fernandez ? 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse. 

Mr. Kunzig. This is a very important point. Mr. Fernandez, are 
there any Communist activities going on within your union? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Kunzig. Have you ever been an officer of any kind in your 
union ? 

At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez, "\^^lat kind of office do you mean? 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you have any post of any kind in the union? 

Mr. Fernandez. I had it once, but it was a long time. 

Mr. Kunzig. '\'\niat was that post? 

Mr. Fernandez. I belonged to the advisory board. 

Mr. Kunzig. The advisory board. Were you a member of the Com- 
munist Party when you belonged to the advisory board of the union ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Kunzig. Have you ever delivered the Daily Worker in Tampa ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr, Fernandez. I refuse. 

Mr. Kunzig. I have here a newspaper clipping, marked "Fernandez 
Exhibit 1" for identification, "Mystery Man Who Delivers Red Daily 
Worker Here Ducks Reporter's Question." 

Then it goes on about the Tribune in Tampa taking a picture of a 
man and describes in detail picking up the Red paper. It is dated 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7421 

July 18, 1954, this year, and there is a picture here, headed, "Man 
Who Picked Up Ked Paper Here," It says he was reluctant to have 
his picture taken, threw his arm in front of his face and drove away 
quickly in a 1949 Chevrolet automobile. Do you drive a 1949 Chevro- 
let automobile? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. You do? 

Mr. Fernandez. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you the man who is being mentioned in this paper ? 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. I am going to ask Mr. Fuoss, the investigator for 
the committee, to take this picture and let you look at it, and ask you. 
Isn't that a picture of you, yourself ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. DoYXE. I think the record should show the witness and counsel 
are closely observing the picture submitted. 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse. 

INIr. Clardy. You don't deny that is your picture ? 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse. 

Mr. KuNziG. You refuse to answer that on the same grounds? 

I would like to offer this newspaper article in evidence Mr. Chair- 
man, as exhibit 1, Fernandez, because it is most obviously a picture 
of this witness. 

Mr. Velde. Without objection, it will be received. 

(Thereupon the newspaper article referred to above was received 
in evidence as exhibit 1, Fernandez, without objection.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you get paid for picking up these papers and 
delivering them ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Doyle. It isn't clear to me what pajDer it is. 

Mr. KuNziG. It is the Daily Worker. The Daily Worker is the 
main Communist outlet and organ in the United States of America. 

Why was this picking up of the Daily Worker in Tampa of this 
year such a secret operation ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Why did you refuse to tell the newspaper reporter 
frankly what you were doing ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. In America today it is legal to read newspapers. Why 
do you refuse to answer ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. There is an interesting detail in the story I would 
like to inquire about. It says, in describing you here, that you were 
dressed in a loud red pattern and short-sleeved sport shirt at the 
time. Do you possess a shirt of that kind ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. How much do you weigh? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 



7422 COMIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. Fernandez. I weigli no^Y about 170, 

Mr. Clardy. 170? 

Mr. Fernandez. Less than 170. 

Mr. Clardy. Noay, yon say. What did yon wei,o-]i in July? 

Mr. Fernandez. I don't remember. 

Mr. Clardy. The reporter here says you are of average height and 
weight about 180 pounds. Pie probably wouldn't qualify on one of the 
county fair guessing contests, if you only weigh 170. 

It also says you picked up these papers at about 4: 20 in the after- 
noon. Do you have any recollection of about the time you did pick 
them up on that July day ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred v.'ith Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. How frequently have you picked up papers at the 
terminal there ? 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. The article also says that the bundle contained about 
100 papers. Is that an accurate estimate? 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. You have heard of the Daily Worker, Ivayg you not? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. And you know they have a Sunday edition in addi- 
tion to their regular daily edition, clon't you ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr, Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Doyle. It seems to me my colleague seems to know more about 
the Daily Worker than the witness. 

Mr. Clardy. I suppose it is our business to know^, and despite your 
innocent statement, I am sure you know just as much. 

The article also says that at one time the papers did not arrive on 
time and you raised quite a fuss about it. Do you recall such an in- 
cident ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy, Do you know the correct name of the newspaper which 
published this article? It is described in here as written by a Mr, 
Tom O'Connor, Tribune staff w^riter. Do you know JNIr. Tom O'Con- 
nor, or the paper for which he writes? 

(At this point Mr, Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. I know the Tribune. 

Mr, Clardy, Where is it published ? 

Mr, Fernandez. In Tampa. 

Mr. Clardy. And do you know Mr. O'Connor ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Clardy. He made himself known to you on the day you picked 
up the bundle, and the picture was taken, did he not? 
(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr, Eldred.) 

Mr, Fernandez, I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. At that time, didn't you, however, acknowledge to 
someone that you were picking up the Daily Worker? 
(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 
Mr, Fernandez, I refuse to answer. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7423 

Mr. Clardy. Did you have some conversation at that time with the 
porter wlio handled the papers for you ? 

(At this point Mr. Fernandez conferred with Mr. Eldred.) 

Mr. Fernandez. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Clardy. I guess that is all I have on that. Apparently he is 
not going to answer anything about it. 

Mr. ScHERER. We did not do any better than the reporter of this ar- 
ticle, which says, "Mystei-y man who handles Eed Daily Worker ducks 
question." No further questions. 

Mr. Velde. No further questions of this witness, but before we 
excuse him, I would like to say to Mr. Eldred that the Committee on 
Un-American Activities appreciates the service rendered by him. It 
is a patriotic service you have rendered. I am sure the people will 
appreciate it a great deal. Nothing derogatory should be assumed 
from the fact you have represented a fifth amendment witness. 

I would appreciate it if you would pay our thanks to the president 
of the Miami Bar Association. 

Mr. Clardy. Some time ago I noted in our paper up in Michigan 
that an attorney down here in your locality had taken the fifth amend- 
ment and the judge had, I think quite properly, taken action to dis- 
bar him. 

It may interest you to know we had three attorneys before us, most, 
or all of which were on the Michigan hearings. I passed that informa- 
tion on to our bar association, but thus far no action has been taken. 

I am glad to note that Florida, at least, has taken the proper steps, 
and the chairman has indicated that the bar down here and in other 
places has cooperated in supplying counsel for those unable to take 
care of that detail themselves. 

Mr. Velde. The committee will recess for 10 minutes. 

(Thereupon, at 10:43 a. m., the hearing was recessed for 10 
minutes.) 

( Hearing resumed at 11 : 07 a. m.) 
. Mr. Velde. Before we commence, Mr. Counsel, I should like to 
make an announcement. 

Mr. Hirsch, I believe you are back there. The committee has de- 
cided it will no longer serve any useful purpose by hearing any fur- 
ther information from Mr. Hirsch,^ so you are therefore excused. The 
committee also decided to recommend to the Attorney General that 
this record be studied for possible perjury charges. 

Call your next witness, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will Mrs. Hilda Shl^frock come forward ? 

Mr. Velde. In tlie testimony you are about to give before this com- 
mittee, do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. I do. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you state your full name, please ? 

TESTIMONY OF HILDA SHLAFROCK 

Mrs. SiiLAFROGK. Hilda Shlafrock. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your present address, Mrs. Shlafrock? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. 65 East Gun Hill Road, Bronx. 



1 Samuel Hirsch had previously appeared as a witnessi on November 29, 1954. See pt. 1 
of this hearing for his testimony. 

55634— 55— pt. 2 4 



7424 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. Ktjnzig. I see you do not have counsel at your side. The com- 
mittee, of course, under its rules, permits every witness to have counsel. 
1 take it you are willing to testify without counsel ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. I will be happy to cooperate. I am grateful for 
this opportunity. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mrs. Shlafrock, you and I have discussed this pre- 
viously. It is my understanding you have been greatly troubled for 
quite some time because of the linking of your own name with that of 
your former husband. Max Shlafrock, as to Communist Party activity, 
and you volunteered to come here before this committee and set that 
record straight ; is that correct ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. Yes ; I was very happy to do so. 

Mr. Velde. Will you speak up a little ? 

Mr. KuNziG. Speak louder, because it is very difficult to hear. 

Mrs. Shlafrock, were you married at any time to Max Shlafrock, 
who took the fifth amenclment before this committee yesterday ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. Yes ; I was married to Max Shlafrock from 1940 
to 1950. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you, yourself, Mrs. Shlafrock, ever been a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. No ; I haven't. 

Mr. KuNziG. You have had nothing to do with the Communist 
Party ; is that correct ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. No ; I have never, never. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever have any occasion to find out that your 
former husband was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. Yes ; I had that occasion. We were married about 
4 months when he told me there was going to be a meeting in the house. 

Mr. KuNziG. Of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. A meeting, and I did not know what it was until 
the meeting was held, in my home, and I found out that must be a 
Communist Party meeting, because it was very different from the_ 
meetings I attended. 

Mr. KuNziG. What organizations ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. I belong to the Nizra Hei — I believe, something 
like that, and to Hadassah. 

Mr. KuNziG. In other words, you mean this particular meeting was 
entirely different from ordinary groups, to w^hich you belong, per- 
sonally ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. I saw immediately something was wrong, because 
the blinds were drawn, and the doors closed. 

Mr. KuNziG. Was the door locked ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did your husband ever have occasion to tell you he 
was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. Yes ; I saw his membership card. 

Mr. KuNziG. He showed you his Communist Party membership 
card? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. I know it was some time ago, but can you remember 
any of the names of the people who attended this Communist Party 
meeting in your home, this one meeting you referred to ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. There were only 5 or 6 people. I don't know how 
many, but there was Joe Carbonell. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7425 

Then there was Mike McGrail. He was some business agent of the 
carpenters, or some local, in Miami. 

Mrs. SiiLA FROCK, Then there was a husband and wife by the name 
of Frank and Catherine, and I don't recall their last names. 

Mr. KuNziG. But in regard to McGrail and Carbonell, you saw them ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. That one meeting was held in Miami ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. Yes, it has all been taking place in Miami. 

Mr. KuNziG. During the 10 years you have been married to Mr. Max 
Shlafrock, you have been living in Miami ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. And as far as lies within your knowledge, was he ac- 
tive in attending and going to Communist meetings during that time ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. I knew he attended meetings, and I always had 
some excuse. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did he try to urge you to become a Communist? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. And you did not accept ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. No. 

Mr. KuNziG. From consultation, Mr. Chairman, that is the total 
knowledge of this witness about this situation. Her experience is 
completely confined to what she has already testified, since she, herself, 
was not a member of the Communist Party. I therefore have no 
further questions. 

Mr. DoTLE. I did not understand. Madam, where that one meeting 
was held. I mean the address, your residence, where that one Com- 
munist Party meeting was held. 

Mrs. Shlafrock. It was in my home in Miami, when I first got mar- 
ried. I was married about 4 months. 

Mr. Doyle. Where was that? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. 1857 Northwest 38th Street. 

Mr. Doyle. About when was that, what month ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. I don't recall the month. I was married in Feb- 
ruary, and it was 4 or 5 months later, and that would have been about 
in July, or June, or somewhere around. 

Mr. Doyle. What time of day ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. It wasn't during the day ; it was in the evening. 

Mr. Doyle. About how long was the meeting ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. I wouldn't remember. It took a while. I don't 
remember how long it was; I was putting the children to sleep, and 
I was busy with them. I don't remember exactly, but it took at least 
an hour, or more. 

Mr. Doyle. I noticed you stated you were very glad to come and 
set the record straight. Wliat is your reason for voluntarily coming 
before this committee? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. First of all, I want to clear my own conscience, 
and I have a daughter who was formally adopted by Mr. Shlafrock, 
and just recently, about a year ago, she got a position with the Gov- 
ernment and she never got a clearance, because Mr. Shlafrock was 
a Communist. That is what they got down on that statement, and 
if there is any way I could just clear her name, I would do it, not 
so much for myself; and I have a son-in-law, who is an attorney, 
and I don't want to give him a bad start in life. He just got out 
of service. 



7426 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. Doyle. I was sure it was a very worthy motive, and I have 
never met you before and asked you why his divorced wife should have 
come vokintarily ? 

Mrs. Shlafrock. Glad to do it. 

Mr. DoTLE. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Velde. Mrs. Shlafrock, let me say on behalf of the committee, 
we do make every effort to clear up confusion which may exist in 
the minds of the public, in reference to any testimony that is 
brought before this committee, and I do hope in this case it serves a 
useful purpose, and we thank you for coming voluntarily before us. 

You are excused now. 

I have an appointment, and I have to leave, and I am appointing 
a subcommittee of Mr. Scherer, Mr. Doyle, and Mr. Clardy as sub- 
committee chairman. 

(Representative Velde left the hearing at this point.) 

Mr. KuNziG. James Nimmo ? 

Mr. Clardy. You do solemnly swear the testimon}^ you are about 
to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God? 

Mr. NiMMO. I do. 

Mr. Clardy. Be seated. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you give us your full name ? 

TESTIMONY OF JAMES NIMMO 

Mr. Nimmo. James B. Nimmo. 

Mr. KuNziG. That is N-i-m-m-o? 

Mr. Nimmo. Correct. 

Mr. KuNziG. AYliat is your present address, Mr. Nimmo ? 

Mr. Nimmo. 5104 Zehring Street, West Hollywood, Fla. 

Mr. KuNZiG. That is Z-e-h-r-i-n-g? 

Mr. Nimmo. Yes. 

Mr. KuNZiG. I see you are not accompanied by counsel. You 
know your right to have counsel. Am I correct, you are willing to 
testify without counsel? 

Mr. Nimmo. I am. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Nimmo, when and where were you born ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I was born in the Bahamas, at Acklins Island. 

Mr. KuNziG. ^Ylien were you born, Mr. Nimmo ? 

Mr. Nimmo. December 15, 1898. 

Mr. KuNziG. You are, then, 56 years of age at the present time ? 

Mr. Nimmo. I will be on the 15th of this month, sir. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Wlien, Mr. Nimmo, did you come to the United 
States ? 

Mr. Nimmo. In the year 1916, in the month of August. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you today a naturalized citizen? 

Mr. Nimmo. I am, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. When did you become a naturalized citizen? 

Mr. Nimmo. In 1927. 

Mr. KuNziG. "Where? 

Mr. Nimmo. In Miami, Fla.; here. 

Mr. KuNziG. And have you been a naturalized citizen of this coun- 
try ever since that time? 

Mr. Nimmo. I have, sir. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7427 

Mr. KuNziG. How long have you resided in Miami, Fla. ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Ever since my arrival here, with the exception of about 
18 or 19 months in the Army, when I went overseas in World War I. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you volunteer for duty in World War I ? 

Mr. NiMMo. I did, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where did you serve? 

Mr. NiMMO. In France. 

Mr. KuNziG. And were you honorably discharged? 

Mr. NiMMO. I was, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. In 1919? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. What outfit did you serve with in France? 

Mr. NiMMO. In the 310th Service Battalion, on the headquarters 
staff. 

Mr. KuNziG. Could you give the committee, Mr. Nimmo, a brief 
I'esume of your education ? 

Mr. Nimmo. Well, I attended the public schools at my home. 

Mr. KuNziG. You mean in the Bahamas? 

Mr. Nimmo. Yes, sir ; and went as far as the sixth grade. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that the sum total of your formal schooling ? 

Mr. Nimmo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. You did not attend schools here in the United States? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now will you give us a resume of your employment 
record, where you have worked since you came to the United States ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, when I first came here, because of the fact 1 
was an apprentice tailor, I worked at some tailor shops in the Negro 
area. 

Mr. KuNziG. Of Miami? 

Mr. Nimmo. Yes, sir. I did some degree of alterations, and hand 
pressing. 

Mr. KuNziG. And then from 1918 to 1919, you have testified you 
were in the military service ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Starting with 1919, where did you work? 

Mr. NiMMO. For a short period of time, I was employed by the Sej' 
bold Baking Co., after being discharged from service. 

Mr. KuNziG. Continue with your employment. 

Mr. NiMMO. I think it was about 1921 I entered the dry-cleaning 
business. I worked in the dry-cleaning business continually from 
then until now, with the exception of about G years as international 
organizer for the Laundry International Union. 

Mr. KuNziG. When were you international organizer for the Laun- 
dry International Union ? 

Mr. Nimmo. From about 1945, 1 think it was, until 1953, I believe. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you at any time ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. When? 

Mr. NiMMO. I don't know exactly when I got into the party, but it 
was during the early forties. 

Mr. KuNziG. You were a Communist })rior to the time when you 
became international organizer for the laundry union ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 



7428 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. KuNziG. When did you get out of the party ? 

Mr. NiMMO. About 1950. 

Mr. KuNziG. So from the early forties to 1950, you were a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I was. 

Mr. ScHEEER. Were you a member during the time you were inter- 
national representative of the union ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. So far as it lies within your knowledge, did your Com- 
munist Party activities prior to 1945 have anything to do with your 
becoming international organizer for the union ? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir; none whatsoever. 

Mr. KuNziG. Was it known to the other members of the union you 
were a Communist Party member ? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were any other members of the union known to be 
Communist Party members ? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. As far as you know, you were the only one? 

Mr. NiMMO, Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Dicl you know Charles Smolikoff ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Tell us about him, in detail, your knowledge of Mr. 
Smolikoff? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, it was in the early forties when a group of 
laundry and dry-cleaning workers were attempting, or at least were, 
I guess that will be right, attempting to organize themselves into a 
union. We were holding meetings over a period of time at the lo- 
cation of 4th Avenue and 19th Street, and during this period of time 
there arose some trouble in one of the plants where some of our mem- 
bers who had attended the union, it came to the knowledge of the 
employer of the plant in which these workers were employed, and 
rhey were discharged, and because of this, we held a meeting at the 
hall and as a result of this, other workers from plants other than 
the one where the workers were first discharged, attended the meet- 
ings also, and it resulted in a strike involving about four plants. City 
Laundry, French Benzol, Town Laundry — I think it was known then 
as the Economy Laundry — and I think a laundry in the Hileah dis- 
trict. I don't just remember the name. 

During this time we used to have large gatherings at our meeting 
yjjlace, and it was there on one occasion Mr. Smolikoff came to us, at 
least someone said a gentleman outside wanted to see you, and Mr. 
Smolikoff turned out to be the gentleman. He wanted to know if 
he could be of any assistance to us. 

I don't know whether or not he was admitted into our meeting 
that night, but on several other occasions he did come around. We 
used to hold meetings regularly, every night, during the strike. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where was this ? 

Mr. NiMMO. At the meeting hall, not with the Laundry Inter- 
national; this was an independent, prior to the organization of the 
Laundry International Union. 

Mr. Ktjnzig. Where was this union hall ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Fourth Avenue and 19th Street; 4th Court, to be 
proper, and 19th Street. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7429 

Mr. KuNziG. Continue, please. 

Mr. NiMMO. And after some time, I don't just remember how long, 
he was admitted into our halls, and he did address our meetings and 
he gave us directions and guidance. This was during the war, also, 
and on 1 or 2 occasions he went to one of the dry-cleaning plants. 
City Dry Cleaning, and took a picture of loading trucks and he filecl 
a petition for us at the War Labor Board, or National Labor Re- 
lations Board — I am not familiar which — to show the plant was 
handling war work and workers had a legitimate right to organize, 
and so on and so forth. It was during this period of time, and I 
don't know just how long it was, but he would then give me leaflets 
and pamphlets on communism, and he eventually invited me to 
meetings. 

Mr. KuNziG. Communist meetings ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER, AVliat was Smolikoff's connection with this union, 
if any ? 

Mr. NiMMO. No direct connection. He gave us voluntary service 
is all I can say. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do I understand he injected himself into this con- 
troversy ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I guess you will have to say that. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did the men know he was the Communist organizer? 

Mr. NiMMO. Nobody knew it ; I did not even at the time, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. But you began to find out ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. He wasn't paid for his service at all? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. By the union, at least? 

Mr. NiMMO. No. 

Mr. ScHERER. You don't know whether he was receiving his pay 
from the Communist Party, or not ? 

Mr. NiiMMO. That, I don't know. 

.Mr. ScHERER. Over how long a period did this continue that he 
voluntarily loaned his services and advice to this group ? 

Mv. NiMMO. It might have been for a period of 2 months, or more, 
and then we became connected with a Mr. Florio who was district 
organizer here for the CIO, district 50 of the United Mine Workers. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did Smolikoff's activities continue for the period of 
the strike ? 

Mr. NiMMO, Yes, it did. 

Mr. ScHERER. After the strike was over, did he sever his connections 
with your group ? 

Mr. NiMMO. There wasn't a group, as such. After the strike was 
lost, let me put it that way, we became, Mr. Florio himself took us 
into district 50 of the United Mine Workers, and he carried on 
organizational activities for approximately a year. 

Mr. ScHERER. That was after Smolikoff got out of the picture, 
wasn't it? 

Mr. NiMMO. Smolikoff wasn't exactly out of the picture, because 
he still visited our meetings. 

Mr. ScHERER. 'Wliat was his occupation at the time? 

Mr. NiMMO. I don't know. 

Mr. ScHERER. He didn't tell you ? 



7430 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. 

Mr. ScpiERER. Do you know if he approached any person, other 
tlian yourself, concerning Communist Party activities'^ 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, now, I don't know how to answer that. I assume 
so, sir. 

]\lr. ycHERER. Smolikoff, Mr. Fuoss, was one of the 15 or 20 we had 
subpenaed but haven't been able to serve? 

j\lr. Ftjoss. Correct. 

Mr. Clardy. I don't think the fact Smolikoff moved in on the 
strike is surprising. You remember the case in Washington where 
Communists moved in on the strike to direct it, not with an idea of 
winning the strike, but creating as much trouble as possible. 

Mr. JSciiERER. Or gaining converts. 

Mr. DoYEE. As long as the ciuestion of serving Smolikoff with a 
subpena has been raised, may I ask, Mr. Fuoss, whether due diligence 
and every reasonable effort has been made to serve him with that 
snb]:>ena ? 

Mr. Fuoss. We have endeavored to serve it, but do not know his 
location. 

Mr. DoTUE. My question is, Have you made every reasonable en- 
deavor to serve him ? 

Mr. Fuoss. Yes, sir, certainly. 

Mr. Clardy. You have done that with others. You have their last- 
known address. 

Mr. Scherer. The United States marshall has attempted to help 
in serving these subpenas. 

Mr. KuNziG. Will you tell us how you became a member of the 
Communist Party. Describe the actual membership you received? 

Mr. NiisiMO. As I said, he then gave me phamphlets on commu- 
nism, and in a short period of time he invited me to meetings. I don't 
remember the first meeting, but I know it was at the CIO headquar- 
ters at 730 West Flagler Street. 

Mr. Clardy. You mean the first Communist Party meeting? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziCx. Did you just continue to attend these meetings? 
"^Ylien did you finally consider, and Smolikoff consider you to be a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I don't know when he considered me as being; all I 
know is I have been attending the meetings from then on. I never, 
in any official way, joined the party. I would always go to meetings 
whenever he requested me. It would just be Charlie would either 
call me or come to me, or we would be together. 

You see, I worked with Smolikoff during the organization of the 
shipyard workers and also the Pan American workers. 

Mr. Scherer. "Wliat part did he play in the organization of the 
shipyard workers union? 

INIr. NiMMO. As far as I know, he was the organizer for the group. 
That is what I always regarded. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you know what his occupation was during the 
time he was organizer for that group ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I never loiew of any occupation of his. ^Vlien he 
came to us, he came to iis o;iving us assistance, and after Florio took 
us over, he would still visit our meetings, and sometime later he 
started organizing the shipyard workers. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7431 

Mr. ScHERER, Was that also on a voluntary basis? 

Mr. NiMMO. I don't know. I wasn't a member of the outfit. 

Mr. Clardy. He was quite a busy fellow, volunteering his help all 
over the place. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you know whether Charles Smolikoff ever 
worked in the shipbuilding business ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I never knew him to work. 

Mr. ScHERER. Actually, wasn't he paid by the Communist Party? 

Mr. NiMMO. I assume the shipyard workers was affiliated with an 
international, the same as our laundry workers, and I would assume 
the international paid him a salary. 

Mr. Clardt. You do not know that was a fact ? 

Mr. NiMMO. No. 

Mr. Clardy. He had no visible means of support ? 

Mr. NiMMO. No. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you know whether he was paid by the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you laiow what his official position was with the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, I don't know what his official position was. All I 
know is from all appearance, he was the leader here. 

Mr. Scherer. The leader in this community ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. Of the Communist Party? 

Mr. NiMMO. It appeared so to me, from all indications. 

Mr. Scherer. Wasn't he considered so by other members of the 
party, as the leader ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, to the best of my knowledge, yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Was that because he made the final decision or deter- 
mination as to policy, whenever such a question would arise? 

Mr. NiMMO. I will put it this way, generally it was Smolikoff — 
Smolikoff was the party, to me, and from what I gathered, he was 
the party. 

Mr. Clardy. He gave the orders and instructions and advise, is 
that right? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. I think our staff, Mr. Chairman, should make every 
effort to serve Smolikoff and have him befoi-e the committee, because 
obviously here is a man, from what little testimony we have had here, 
who is guilty of violating the Smitii Act, and perhaps his testimony 
might be helpful to the Attorney General in determining whether or 
not he should be proceeded against for advocating the policy of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Clardy. It is another matter we will take up during the noon 
recess. 

]Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Nimmo, did you ever have any conversations 
with Smolikoff about Daily Worker subscriptions ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, he has asked me to secure or get subscriptions for 
the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you subscribe for it yourself? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. I have received it tlii-ough the mail, but I 
never subscribed for it. 

5.56S4 — 55 — ,3t. 2 5 



7432 CORiMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. Clardy. You said a Avhile ago there was no formal step or 
action taken that brought you into the party. You had no formal 
initiation, but you considered yourself a member ? 

Mr. XiMMO. I was invited to, and attended meetings, and I went 
along. 

Mr. Clardy. With Smolikoff? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. And I assume there came a time when you were also 
requested to pay dues ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, I want to be honest with you, dues have beer 
mentioned, but I have never paid any dues. 

Mr. Clardy. You got by without doing that ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I guess I was carried. 

Mr. ScHERER. Were you, perhaps, carried as a member of the Com- 
munist Party because you were international representatives of the 
laundry-workers union? 

Mr. NiMMO. I wasn't an international representaitve of the laundry- 
workers union at the time I got in the party, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. After you were international representative, at some 
time you were in the party ? 

Mr. NiM3io. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. When were you international representative of the 
laundry-workers union ? 

Mr. NiMMO. From the year 1945 until 1953. 

Mr. ScuERER. And vou v.ere in the partv fror.i what vear? 

Mr. NiMMO. Until 1950. 

Mr. ScHERER. So at least 5 years you were in the party ( 

Mr. NiMMO. That is right, sir. 

Mr. ScuERER. And were also international representative? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

JNIr. Clardy. You have a distinction I don't think anybody else 
has. You are the first member I have run across who has not paid 10 
cents a month, anyway, in dues. 

]Mr. NiMMO. JSIaybe I can clarify it by stating this; from wdiat I 
can gather, maybe I have had other distinctions. I got into the party 
on what was known as the city committee, at the start. I never was 
belonging to a club group wdiere they collect dues. I have seen repre- 
sentatives from the clubs report to the city committee about the col- 
lection of dues from their clubs, but I never belonged to a club; I 
always functioned only at the city committee, and as far as I know 
I have never seen any dues collected. 

Mr. ScHERER. You started at the top city level ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

INIr. Clardy. You were more or less one of the connnanding officers 
at the top ? 

Mr. NiMMO. That is where I found myself. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is the first time we found out the top echelon 
did not have to pay dues. 

Mr. Clardy. You are the first witness who has appeared since I 
have been on the committee who has testified he was at one time a 
member but wasn't assessed dues, or gave them voluntarily. Wait 
a minute — did you make some voluntary contribution ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7433 

]\Ir. NiM3io. Xo, I don't recall mtiking- any voluntarj^ contribution. 
I also attended a meetino- where I saw approximately $1,900 raised 
for the Daily Worker, and I did not give a donation there. 

Mr. DoTLE. May I ask the Avitness, did yon receive any contribu- 
tions ? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Usuall}' it is the percentage of his salary ; it depends 
on what you make. Did you know that ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I heard that in the discussions, that dues were paid 
on the basis of earnings. 

INIr. ScHERER. A^Hiat was that percentage? 

Mr. NiMMO. I never heard what the exact percentage was. 

Mr. ScHERER. In some cases it would run as high as 10 percent. 

Mr. ISTiMMO. I don't know. 

]\Ir. ScHERER. In some instances, I understand they tithe. 

Mr. Clardy. At any rate, you rendered the service requested, but 
you did not make financial contributions? 

Mr. NiMiMO. Xo. sir. 

Mr. KuxziG, Who was on this city committee with you? We are 
only interested in knowing the names of those who met at closed 
meetings of the cit}^ committee with j'ou. 

JNIr. XiMMO. There were different people at different times. I don't 
kno'v if I can correctly state all the people that were on the committee 
from time to time, but as best I can remember, there was, with the 
exception of Smolikoff and myself, there was a INIike Shantzek. 

Mr. KuxziG. How do you spell it ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I don't know. 

Mr. KuxziG. Pronounce it. 

Mr. NiMMo. Mike Shantzek. 

Mr. KuNziG. It is spelled M-i-k-e S-h-a-n-t-z-e-k. Would you 
identify him a little further, Mike Shantzek? 

yir. XiMMO. I have always heard him talk about being a painter, 
and he is sort of heavy set. 

Mr. Kr^xziG. You knew him to be a member of the Communist 
Party, from your own personal knowledge ? 

]\Ir. NiMjro. Yes- sir, we attended closed meetings. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was he still a member when you got out, when you 
left the party? 

IMr. NiMMO. Frankly, I hadn't seen him for several years before 
I got out. I hadn't seen him for 2 or 3 vears before I tjot out. 

Mr. ScHERER. Then, of course, yoCi don't know where he is today i 

Mr. NiMMo. No, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Or what he is doing ? 

INIr. NiMMO. No, sir, I don't. I onh^ met with him when he was 
on the city committee. When they are not on the city committee, I 
wouldn't see them, unless they met with the city committee. 

Mr. KuNziG. He could still be a member of the Communist Party 
and you not see him. 

Who else was a member of the city committee and met with you? 

Mr. NiMMO. Tess Kantor. 

Mr. KuNziG. T-e-s-s K-a-n-t-o-r. 

Man or woman ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Woman. 



7434 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. KuNZiG. Could you describe her a little further ? Some identi- 
fication ? 

Mr. NiMMO. She was a medium built woman. I think she would 
have what you call blonde hair — I don't know. She was very gay 
and affable. I heard mentioned she was a lawyer, I believe. 

Mr. KuNziG. But you are not sure ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I never heard her say so. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Do you know where she lived ? 

Mr. NiMMO. At Miami Beach. 

Mr. KuNziG. And she was a member of the Comnumist Party city 
committee at Miami, with you? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ktjnzig. "Wliat period of time would that have been, Mr. Nimmo, * 
to the best of your recollection ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, let me say maybe around 1945, 1946, 1947, prob- 
ably ; I don't know exactly. 

Mr. KuNziG. Who else was a member of the city committee ? 

Mr. Nimmo. Leah Adler. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever heard her called Leah Adler Benemov- 
sky, or did you know her as Leah Adler ? 

Mr. Nimmo. I knew her as Leah Adler. 

Mr. Ktjnzig. In the record, she has been identified both ways, Leah 
Adler or Leah Adler Benemovsky. 

Could you identify Leah Adler Benemovsl^y for us further, please? 

Mr. Nimmo. She is an elderly woman with a broken accent, not very 
tall, and she is pretty fat. I wouldn't say fat, but she is medium built. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know where she worked, or lived ? 

Mr. Nimmo. She lived in Miami Beach; I don't know where she 
worked. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Were there any other meml)ers you remember as mem- 
bers of the city committee of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Nimmo. Ed Waller. 

Mr. KuNZiG. At what period of time did you know him to be a 
member of the city committee ? 

Mr. Nimmo. The only time I have met with Waller was on the city 
committee, and it was clurino: Smolikoff's admission at the Transport 
Workers on West Flagler Street, and that is where we held our 
meetings. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was that a third union Smolikoff was identified 
with? 

Mr. Nimmo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SciiERER. What part did he play in the transport workers 
union ? 

Mr. Nimmo. I would say he organized it. 

Mr. SciiERER. Were there any other unions, while we are on this 
subject, that Smolikoff had anything to do with? 

Mr. Nimmo. Not that I know of. 

Mr. ScHERER. A^Hien was he active in organizing the transport 
workers union? 

Mr. Nimmo. It must have been around late 1944, 1945, somewhere. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do 3^ou know whether he got any converts to the 
Communist Party from those imion«* 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7435 

Mr. NiMMO. I don't know liow to answer that. I don't know 
whether he g:ot any converts, but I know several persons frorii that 
union who were members of the part} . 

Mr. ScHERER. Who were the}^ ? 

]Mr. NiMMO. "Waller, for example, was one. 

Mr. ScELERER. We know abont him. 

Mr. NiMMO. A fellow known to me by the name of Suggs, or Sug, 
an elderly 

Mr. KuNziG. S-u-g? 

Mr. Ni3iM0. S-u-g, or S-u-g-s, and Lou Popps, a Negro. 

David Spicey, another Negro. 

Mr. ScHERER. They all were acquainted with Smolikoff ? 

Mr. NiM]\ro. lie was head of the outfit, as far as I knew. He or- 
ganized them. 

JNIr. SciiERER. They did not get into the party until after Smolikoff 
organized the union, did they ? 

Mr. NisiMO. That is where I met them. I met them at the union 
office. That is where I became, acquainted with them. 

Mr. ScHERER. At the union office in connection with union meetings, 
or Communist Party meetings ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, now. I don't know when I first became acquainted 
as a Communist. I became acquainted as a union member, they used 
to have shop-steward classes, and I also attended them. On one oc- 
casion I received a call from Smolikoff, I think it was on a Sunday, 
to come down to the office, and I went down there and T met Lou Popps, 
and we went in a car with a group of other men, several cars, and 
we went to a home out in the southwest section. 

I remember Ed Waller, Smolikoff, Popps, and some others whose 
names I don't remember, and myself, and ap])arently they were wait- 
ing for others to come, when there was a telephone call and Waller 
answered the telephone, and after taking the call, there was a sort 
of hush-hush meeting between a few of them, and Popps and I were 
spirited out of the meeting. 

On our way home, the driver told us the call came from the Klan, 
and they wanted to get us away from there before anything hap- 
pened. 

Mr. SciiERER. Was that meeting you were having at this private 
home a union meeting or Communist meeting? 

Mr. NiMMO. It was a Communist meeting we were going to have, 
but it never materialized in our presence. A white fellow drove 
Popps and I away from the place, but I don't know whether the meet- 
ing ever continued or not. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was Smolikoff at that meeting? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SciiERER. I am asking these questions because as Mr. Chirdy 
pointed out, the pattern is the same as we found it in other commu- 
nities where individuals like Smolikoff, who are functionaries of 
the Communist Party have used their connections in various unions 
to obtain converts, in an effort to control those unions, and I wanted to 
see whether that happened in this area. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Mr. Nimmo, where did you say Communist Party 
meetings were held in Miami, the city committee meetings you 
attended ? 



7436 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. NiMMO. All of tliem that I attended, most of them I attended, 
were held at the CIO office at 730 West Flagler Street. 

Mr. KuNziG. Union Hall? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. How did they differentiate between Communist Party 
meetings and nnion meetings ? Describe that exactly as it took place. 

Mr. NiMMO. Union meetings are open to the general membership 
of the union. The other meetings were just sometimes 3, sometimes 
4 or 5 ; seldom more than that. I don't know if there were ever more 
than five at any given time. 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Witness, in a closed Communist Party meeting, 
there isn't the slightest chance, is there, of someone who is not a 
Communist, innocently wandering in and taking part in the meeting ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, I believe there is a slight chance, but I don't 
think it is very general, because I remember on one occasion at the 
headquarters in this same place, where someone did open the door 
and come in, and of course the discussions were stopped immediately, 
and the person was talked to, and after leaving there was some query 
as to who left the door open, or something like that. 

I wouldn't say there isn't a slight chance. 

Mr. Clardy. When a person who is not a Communist and wanders 
in, he is not welcome in the fold, so to speak? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. 

Mr. Clardy. And if a person is not a Communist, he not only 
would not be welcome, but in due course the meeting would break up 
or he would be escorted from the meeting, would he not ? 

Mr. NiMMO, I don't know ; I should say he would be escorted from 
the meeting. I do think they would not carry on discussions in the 
presence of anyone who by chance happened to come in. 

Mr. Clardy. If you were not a member of the Communist Party 
and got into a meeting of Communists, Communist business would 
not be discussed at that time? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. What was the physical setup ? "Wliat sort of meeting 
rooms did you use for the Communist Party, as against what sort 
of meetings for public meetings of the union? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, the Negro members of the union met in the 
Negro district, and the white members met at the hall, I guess, on 
Flagler Street. 

Smolikoff secured for me the same place we held our meetings, and 
also the Longshoremen's Hall for holding meetings with the Negro 
workers. So, it is hard for me to tell you. 

I don't know what goes on when they hold meetings for the whites, 
because I have never attended them. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did Smolikoff use you to be a speaker and address 
Negro members of the union ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kdnzig. That was one of your main functions, wasn't it ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir ; when they w^ere organizing the workers. 

Mr. Kunzig. And when you became a Communist Party member, 
you met and arranged these things with Smolikoff' in the Communist 
Party, and you would go out and address members who were not 
members of the Communist Party ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7437 

Mr. NiMMO. I wouldn't say I met Smolikoff in the Communist 
Party ; it was always arranged between Smolikoff and I. 

Mr. Clardy. But Smolikoff, in your eyes, as you told us earlier, was 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. NiMMO. For a time he was my ideal. 

Mr. Clardy. Your ideal ? 

Mr. NiMMO. As a leader ; yes, sir. He appeared to me to be a very 
excellent and capable leader, and was doing a good job as far as I 
knew at the time when he was carrying on the organizational activity. 

Mr. ScHERER. You said at one time he was your ideal. Did you 
ever change your mind about Smolikoff ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, in a sense ; yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERKR. What caused the change ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, it appears over a period of time, it appears as 
though there was a lot of bungling in his efforts with the union. 

Mr. ScHERER. Isn't it a fact you found out he was more interested 
in promoting the Communist Party than he was the activities and 
welfare of the union? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, I would like to answer that question this way, 
sir : I am confident he was all interested in building the Communist 
Party, but I think he was just as much interested in the union, for 
the simple reason I think the union offered him the opportunity for 
doing the work the way he wanted to do it — that is my opinion. 

Mr. Clardy. You meant it gave him the opportunity to promote the 
ends of the Communist Party by working for the union ? 

Mr. NiMMO. And meeting with a broader group, in a collective 
manner. 

Mr. Clardy. We are familiar with that. We uncovered it in hear- 
ings in Michigan where the Communist Party made it abundantly clear 
in their own language they regarded the seizing of control of unions 
of paramount importance, and they were instructing all their leaders 
to work toward that end, because they bluntly said in the event of war 
with Russia, they wanted their men in a position to cripple the ability 
of this Nation to defend itself, and what you say fits in the pattern 
of subversion in Michigan. 

Mr, NiMMO. I was severely criticized from time to time for not 
being able to recruit members from the laundry-workers union. As 
a result, if they felt we could build a party within the union, we 
would have to have a better opportunity. 

Mr. ScHERER. You were criticized-for not recruiting members in the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. It is obvious Smolikoff's interest in the union was 
secondary to his interest in the party. He worked for the union and 
did these good things for the union because he was primarily in- 
terested in what the union could do toward building the party, is 
that a correct statement ? 

Mr. NiMMO. It sounds correct, but I can't tell you exactly what 
Charlie Smolikoff thought. 

Mr. ScHERER. I thought that is what you said. 

Mr. NiMMO. I am going to tell you from my point of view, and if I 
judge him from my point of view, I would feel a little bit different 
from you ; I would feel the union would have given him a better base 
from which to build a party. With the union you have a mass 



7438 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

organization from which you can work, control, and direct, whei'eas 
witliout tliat, yon can't. 

Mr. SciiERER. That is what I said, but you said so much better. 

Mr. Clardy. The Chair must observe you two are in substantial 
agreement; in fact you are in agreement, but you used different 
language. 

Proceed, Mr. Kunzig. 

Mr. KuxziG. You were giving us some of the names of those you 
knew as members of the Communist Party City Committee. Would 
you continue? 

Mv. NiMMO. I am about lost now. 

Mr. Clardy. We sort of detoured you there. Take your time and 
get back on the track again. 

Can you refresh his recollection ? 

Mr. ivuNziG. Did you know Carbonell, Jose Carbonell ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kunzig. Would you describe him? Pie testified before this 
group the other day. 

JMr. NiMMO. Carbonell is a Cuban by birth, as I learned, and he 
is a cabinetmaker. 

iMr. Kunzig. And you knew him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kunzig. How about George Nelson ? 

Mr. NiiNiMO. George Nelson, I later found out, was a State organizer, 
I think. I first met him as a Daily Worker representative. 

Mr. Kunzig. State organizer of what? 

Mr. NiMMO. Of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you meet with George Nelson in closed Com- 
munist Party meetings? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kunzig. How about Alex Trainor ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Alex Trainor was, I believe, prior to George Nelson, 
State organizer. 

Mr. Kltnztg. Of the Communist Party? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes. sir. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you knov\^ Homer Chase? 

Mr. NiM]\[o. I have heard that name. I don't know if I should 
s«y I know Homer Chase. It is possible I know him. 

Mr. Kunzig. If you don't know him as a member of the Commu- 
nist Party, I ask that be stricken from the record. 

Mr. ScHERi^R. He has not been identified ? 

Mr. Kunzig. He has been, yes, but not by this witness. 

Mr. Clardy. The question was whether he had been identified other- 
wise. 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Kunzig said he had been identified. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you know Foster Robinson ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Foster Robinson was a Negro, and as much as I know 
of him is — I don't know exactly how to put it, an unemployed person 
who — let's say he wag just '"a-man-about-town." 

Mr. Kunzig. You knew him to be a Communist 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Kunzig. Did you know where he lived? Could you describe 
him at all, how he looked? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7439 

Mr NiMMO. Well, no ; I don't really know where lie lived, in oenerai. 
I knew he spent some nights at his mother's home, I think somewhere 
on 14tli Street, near Third Avenue, but apparently he did not live 
there because I don't think he always was m agTeement with the rest 
of his family, from what I gathered, and he was always m hot water. 
1 never knew of any permanent residence of Foster's. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know where he is today ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I believe he is in Tampa. 

Mr. ScHEKER. You say you did not know his occupation ? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir ; I didn't think he had one, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you know whether or not he was on the payroll 
of the party ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Not that I know ; no, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Could you say he was a Negro, for identification 
purposes ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Walter Bishop ? . . . 

]Mr. NiMMO. Walter Bishop was one of our associates in the inde- 
pendent group, when we were attempting to organize the laundry 
workers union, and he and I attended several meetings, together with 
Smolikoff. As far as I know, I don't really believe that he has at- 
tended meetings, but I don't think he has been with the party for more 
than a year, maybe less, but he has attended meetings with Smolikoff 
and me. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you know whether or not he is out of the party ? 
If you do, we would like to know. 

Mr. NiMMO. I haven't seen him in several years. 

Mr. KuNziG. Was Walter Bishop white or Negro ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Negro. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know Sam Careouthers ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes. 

^Ir. KuNziG. Would you describe Sam Careouthers, and identify 
him further, if you can ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I can't give you very much of a description of him. 
I had a very short acquaintance with him, but he was a man of about, 
say 150 or 155 pounds in weight, in my opinion, about 5 feet 8 inches, 
maybe 5 feet 7 or 8, and I am inclined to believe he was in some way 
connected with the transport workers union. 

It was at the union hall I would see him, but I never knew exactly. 
It was just my opinion he was connected with the union. I don't 
know that. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know him as a member of the Communist 
Party, and meet with him in closed meetings ? 

Mr. Ni:M3ro. Yes ; we met in closed meetings. 

]Mr. Clardy. The committee has a considerable amount of business. 
We are getting toward the end of the session and end of the year. 

Before we recess for noon, I want to make one observation. One 
of the witnesses on the stand has made a suggestion that he had been 
identified as a member of the Communist Party by a paid witness. 
We want to disabuse the idea we have hired witnesses. We have no 
appropriation for that, and we wouldn't do it if we did. 

I am getting tired of these Communists saying that. I want to 
blast that once and for all, and the papers can quote us on that. 



7440 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

I am reminded by our investigator, which every one of the members 
fully know, as with a Federal court witness, our witnesses are paid the 
same per diem, and no more. 

We will adjourn until 2 o'clock this afternoon, 

(Thereupon at 12: 11 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 2 p. m., same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(At the hour of 2 p. m., of the same day, the proceedings were re- 
sumed, the same parties being present.) 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order. 

Before proceeding with the witness, Mr. Counsel, I would like to 
acknowledge the fact that we have many telegrams and letters from 
various people in the Florida area and the southeastern part of the 
area. It is going to be impossible to acknowledge each and every one 
of these telegrams and letters ; but I do appreciate the fact that you 
have sent these letters and telegTams and that you have given us your 
cooperation and courtesy. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Nimmo, you already mentioned various people 
you knew to be members of the Communist Party and on the city 
committee here in Miami when you were a member of the city com- 
mittee, before lunchtime; and as I was going through the names I 
have found the name of Lois Baker. Do you know Lois Baker ? 

TESTIMONY OF JAMES NIMMO— Resumed 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes, I do. 

Mr. KuNziG. Describe Lois Baker; how you knew her, and how 
you knew her to be a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Nimmo. I knew her. She is, I believe, from west Florida; 
some section of west Florida. I met her on occasions in Tampa. I 
think she worked very closely with George Nelson or that was my 
impression. She visited Miami on one occasion at least. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you know her to be a member of the Communist 
Party ? Did you meet in closed party meetings ? 

Mr. NiMMo. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. What was the function of the party or the gi'oup 
you were associated with in connection with recruiting other members 
and bringing strength to the party ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, they always, generally emphasized on recruiting 
Negro and white workers into the party, and it appears as though 
the emphasis was especially on the working class, white workers and 
Negroes. 

Mr. KuNziG. How about your own service ? Did you do anything 
to recruit? 

Mr. NiMMO. No ; not a single member has been recruited by me from 
the laundry workers or otherwise. I mentioned tliat we have a mem- 
bership that has grown from two or three hundred to about 1,200 
in the height of the season ; and in the summertime our membership 
would vary from seven to nine hundred; and not a single laundry 
worker was recruited to the party. 

Mr. KuNziG. By yourself ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I don't think there is one in or I would have known. 
I am talking about the Laundry Workers' International Union. As 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7441 

I said to you before, Walt Bishop got in the party the same time that 
I did through information of Smolikoff. 

Mr, KuNziG. Did you ever get any criticism from the party for not 
recruiting ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Oh, yes ; quite frequently I was criticized for my fail- 
ure to recruit members from the ranks of my union. 

Mr. KuNziG. Did you ever at any time cooperate with the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, recently ; yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. You have given them your story ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. I would like to hear now about a very important sub- 
ject in connection with the efforts of the Communist Party. You 
mentioned the Negroes in this area. You were familiar with what 
the purpose or function or duties of the Communist Party vv'ith re- 
spect to the Negroes. Would you describe this. 

Mr. NiMMO. As I understood it — or understand it — they seemed to 
seize upon every opportunity when there was some incident of some 
kind; as for example, I might mention what is known to us as the 
Groveland case where three Negroes were involved in a rape trial; 
and some homes were shot up and some also burned. This was played 
up very largely by the party. Also, there was another case with 
Oran Johnson who attended high school here and went to live on the 
west coast; and who killed a sheriff' or a deputy sheriff. And there 
were other incidents where the party seemed to seize the opportunity 
to make a much bigger thing out of it than it should have been ; and 
use it as an opportunity to gain sympathy of the Negroes and recruit 
them into the party. 

I think moneys were raised and clothing collected to help the 
families of these people, and this certainly gained the sympathy of 
some people. A meeting was held of Negroes in the youth center in 
which 100 or more people attended ; and I think a reporter was there 
from the Miami Herald. I know all these people felt the party was 
doing a great job in assisting the Negroes and a very fine thing they 
were doing. I remember questioning this in one or more of the 
meetings. 

Mr. KuNziG. You questioned the Communist meeting? 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes ; I didn't feel it was the proper thing to seize every 
opportunity whenever anything was happening to the Negro to make 
an affair of it ; and never attempt ta do anything so far as the other 
races were concerned. This had a one-sided effect, I felt, to try to 
gain the sympathy of the negroes to draw them into the party. 

Mr. ScHERER. You are absolutely right. What you have been tell- 
ing us here today has been told to us by Negroes all over the country. 
They realized that the Communist Party is only pretending to promul- 
gate the rights of the Negroes in order to, as you say, attract them to 
the party ; and they use this means constantly, as you say, to gain the 
sympathy of the Negroes and to attract them to the Communist pro- 
gram. After they got into the party they found out that the Com- 
munist Party was not sincere or sympathetic but using incidents such 
as you mentioned as an opportunity to strengthen the Communist 
Party. Wliat you say here today rings true and has been heard in 
every section of the country by this committee. 



7442 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. Velde. I would like to concur with the gentleman from Ohio ; 
and I might add that the committee is releasing at the end of the 
month an article entitled "The American Negro and the Communist 
Party." I hope that people, and especially the colored people of the 
country, will read this article. Of course, it wouldn't do any harm 
for the white people to read the same article. It can be obtained by 
writing to our committee the later part of this month. 

Mr. ScHEREK. The Connnunist Party follows the policy I have 
discussed and just mentioned insofar as the Negro is concerned; but 
is doing the same thing with reference to other minority groups also. 
1 would like to ask an important question following the ones you just 
had ; and that is : Within your personal knowledge, up to and includ- 
ing 1950, when you left the party, did many Negroes fall prey to 
the Communist idea ? 

Mr. NiMMO. In Miami; there were not enough Negroes in Miami 
at any time to even form a group. As a result, and in my opinion, that 
was the only reason I was in the section committee. There was no 
other place for me. When Bishop, formerly mentioned, was in the 
party ; as far as I know there was only Bishop and I. Bishop's stay 
in the party wasn't very long ; possibly a year or less. Then I knew 
Foster Robinson ; and there have been these fellows Popps and Spicey 
from the transport workers. But as far as I can remember there were 
never any meetings, group meetings, of Negroes. I don't know how or 
where Spicey and Popps functioned. Maybe they had their own cell 
within the transport workers union or out. But there never was a 
Negro group as such meeting for the party. 

Mr. ScHERER. What you say again is true. Barbara Hartle testi- 
fied before this committee after she was sentenced to the Federal 
penitentiary and had broken with the party. She told us the Com- 
munist Party recognized it was not successful in converting Negroes 
to the Communist cause despite their best etforts and the best tactics 
the Communist Party could muster. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask the witness wdiy in his opinion there were 
never group meetings of the Negro Communists while apparently 
there were a great many group or cell Communist meetings by whites ? 
Wliat explanation do you have, Mr. Nimmo? "Wliy should the Com- 
munist Party be able to attract groups of Communist whites and get 
the whites and yet couldn't get the Negroes ? Why is that in Florida ? 
And you may further explain to me the question of looking upon or 
looking to your friend Charles, as you call him, the Communist leader. 
You recognized him as the Communist leader, and he wanted you to 
be put on the city committee before you had ever been a member of 
the Communist group and in fact, you have never been a member of a 
Communist group. With all those favors he gave you in the past two 
or three years why couldn't you succeed in getting any Negroes into 
a group ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I made no effort to recruit Negroes. It may sound like 
opportunism to say it, but it was expeditious in my case. We were 
organizing a union and Smolikoff was helping us. At first I didn't 
know he was a Communist. When I found out, I found myself going 
to the meetings and working with him. Pie really impressed me as 
being a very smart man ; and he was very helpful in many ways, but 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7443 

he was not quite clear on the objectives of communism as he would from 
time to time try to outline it. On the other hand, I knew that there 
were numerous meetings of even the city committee that I didn't 
attend or wasn't invited to. There were many instances; and of 
course, I never questioned this with Charley or anybody else. I held 
my own opinion. I was invited to meetings when there were discus- 
sions on Negro problems and so forth and so on. And there were 
other meetings. As a matter of fact, after Charley was ousted from 
the transport workers union and was no longer around the transport 
quarters, I remember only 3 meetings I attended from then until 1950 ; 
and on 2 of them there was only Nelson, myself, and Carbonell. On 
two or three occasions Nelson came from either Jacksonville or 
Tampa; I don't know which. He would call me on the phone and 
make an appointment to meet us at diiJerent places, and he and I 
would sit in the car for 15 minutes or so. I know he didn't come to 
Miami to see me. So each time there was another meeting I wasn't 
called in ; and I mean I made my conclusion on this. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you mean the Communist Party was practicing 
segregation ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I don't want to put it that way. 

Mr. Doyle. But that is what you are trying to tell us. 

Mr. NiMMO. I want to say they called me in on meetings only when 
they needed me. 

INIr. Doyle. There may have been group meetings of the Communist 
Party attended by Negroes that you didn't know anything about. Is 
that true ? 

Mr. NiMMo. I would hardly be inclined to believe that, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. I am inclined to believe it from your own testimony. 
You said there were meetings held at the Negro youth center that were 
attended by 100 whites and Negroes. 

Mr. NiMMo. Yes. 

Mr. DoYT.E. You said they felt the party was doing a wonderful 
thing. 

Mr. NiMMO. Yes ; but I want to say this — and I may not be able to 
make this very clear to you or the committee as a whole. The meetings 
at the youth center were not closed-door meetings but open-door meet- 
ings. There was an atmosphere — T mean people were aware of the 
fact that the operation was by Communists but it was not a closed- 
door meeting and the people going were not Communists by any 
ineans. 

Mr. Doyle. The reason I asked the details of this meeting and other 
meetings is to make sure the same thing applied. It shows the meth- 
ods and manner of the Communist Party functioning. That is the 
only reason I am taking the time of this witness. This meeting at the 
youth center and the other method aided to possibly feel out the 
people to later recruit. That is why I asked you. I think that is all. 

Mr. KuNZiG. You mentioned in the last few questions that Smoli- 
koff was ousted from the union. "Will you explain what you mean 
by ousted from the union. 

Mr. NiMMO. How I know ? I think it was Mike Quill of New York 
who is the general president of the transport workers union; and I 
understood he fired Smolikoff — at least, I read it in the papers. I 
don't know what lead up to it but I know he was tired from the union. 



7444 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr, KuNziG. Do you believe it was due to Communist activities or 
what ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I believe I read both Communist activities and the 
misappropriation or mishandling of funds. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Nimmo, you got out in 1950. Why did you get 
out of the party ? 

Mr. Nimmo. Of course I became disgusted with it then, as I said. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wliy? 

Mr. Nimmo. The first time I got the urge to leave was during the 
visit of one Elizabeth Gurley Flynn from New York here where the 
meeting was held at the beach. Of course, I was not aware of the 
meeting or know anj^thing about it until after the incident. At the 
time it happened the meeting was held at the beach under the auspices 
of the Communist Party. It was a fund-raising drive as I later 
gathered. The meeting was exposed by — I don't know — by news- 
papermen or whom. However, something developed then — happened 
about one-third or more members of the party in Miami fled. I 
thought, under those circumstances, it was rather embarrassing to 
belong to an outfit when some incident like that occurred and every- 
body would have to run for shelter. 

Mr. ScHERER. I am interested in why they would have to run for 
shelter ? 

Mr. Nimmo. Well, that is what I Avant to know, myself. 

Mr. Clardt. We had some experience with that in the last week 
when they left town. Why did they leave town when Elizabeth 
Gurley Flynn came to town ? She is one of the leaders of the national 
Communist Party. Was this at the Edwards Hotel ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I think that is where it was. That is what I heard. 

Mr. Clardy. The newspaper people came in and they fled in all 
directions ? 

Mr. NiMMo. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. Newspaper people came in ? 

Mr. Clardt. That is right. 

Mr. ScHERER. I wouldn't call that a raid. 

Mr. KuNziG. Then you got out of the party after this incident? 

Mr. Nimmo. I didn't drop out immediately, of course. I began 
getting out. 

Mr. ScHERER. Before you go any further. "Wliy weren't you noti- 
fied of that meeting ? 

Mr. NiMMo. I wouldn't know. I only knew after the exposure that 
Elizabeth Gurley Flynn was in town. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was that because Negi"oes were not invited to the 
meeting ? 

Mr. NiMMO. As far as I know, none were invited. 

Mr. ScHERER. Wasn't one of the arguments that the Communist 
Party used that it was opposed to segregation? 

Mr. NiMMO. Very definitely, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Didn't it appear to you they were against 
segregation ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Very definitely, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. And you felt after the two incidents described here 
that the Communist Party practiced segregation by the last meeting 
you described and the fact that 3'ou weren't invited to the meeting; 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7445 

and that certain time that you had the meeting in the machine with 
Nelson and so forth ? 

Mr. NiMMO. That is right. 

Mr. ScHERER. You found out that the Communist Party didn't 
practice what it preaclied ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Very definitely. From that time on I might add, in a 
period of 2 or 3 years I attended 2 or 3 meetings. I am sure two of 
them were with Nelson in the car; and on another occasion Nelson 
picked me up and we went somewhere in the northwest section to a 
little cabinet shop where Jose Carbonell works and just us three had 
a discussion there. 

Mr. KuNziG. Wlien you left the Communist Party, you left it in 
about 1950 or 4 years ago. Can you give us an estimate from your 
own personal knowledge what the condition was of the Communist 
Party here in Miami in 1950 when you left ? 

Mr. NiMMO. In my opinion, its progress was at a standstill. They 
didn't seem to be making any progress at all. In fact, at the com- 
mittee meeting there would always be some discussion about dis- 
agreements in different groups; especially the beach group. Leah 
Adler represented the beach group. She always had some arguments 
to offer about the groups there. It seemed things were not going as 
they should. 

Mr. KuNziG. From 1950 on, what the Communist Party has done, 
what the fronts or activities were, you have no personal knowledge 
of at all? 

Mr. NiMMO. None. 

Mr. KuNZiG. No further questions. 

Mr. Velde. Any questions, Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. None. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Clardy? 

Mr. Clardy. No questions. 

Mr. Doyle. You stated you were present at a meeting where $1,900 
was raised by the Daily Worker. By what method and how was the 
meeting conducted to raise $1,900 by the Communist Party? 

Mr. NiMMO. Well, it was on Sunday night that I got a call from 
Charlie. I would say it was around 6 : 30 or 7 o'clock. He asked me 
to come down to the office at the CIO Building at 730 West Flagler 
Street. I got there and found quite an audience. There wasn't seat- 
ing capacity for the people there. 

Mr. Doyle. How many were in the audience? 

Mr. NiMMO. I would estimate there might have been about 150 
people at least. 

Mr. Doyle. Whites and Negroes? 

Mr. NiMMO. No ; I was the only Negro there. 

Mr. Doyle. "\'V^iat was done in this meeting to raise this money? 

Mr. NiMMO. There were talks by Smolikoff and others. They were 
raising funds for the Daily Worker; and I just didn't think people 
should be giving money in the manner they gave it there. One par- 
ticular gentleman gave $500. And then there was an elderly lady 
got up and apparently this elderly lady gave all she could afford; 
and this gentleman asked her to give her age; and he said he would 
give $1 for every year she was ; and I think she was close to 70 and 
he matched it. Another man matched him and the final collection 
was around $1,900. 



7446 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. Doyle. Was the man who gave the $500 known to you to be 
a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. NiMMo. No, sir, that was the first time I seen him. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you identified him since then as a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir, 

Mr. Doyle. The Daily Worker you mentioned ; was that the Com- 
munist paper? 

Mr. NiMMo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Why were they raising money for the Daily Worker? 

Mr. NiMMO. They said the Daily Worker was badly in need of 
funds and they had a drive on to raise the funds for the Daily 
Worker. 

Mr. Doyle. Did Smolikoff preside over the meeting? 

Mr. NiMMO. I don't exactly remember but he was in charge of prac- 
tically everything there. 

Mr. Doyle. Why did you join the Communist Party ? 

Mr. NiMMO. I told j^ou it was when I vras working witli SmolikofI in 
the union organization. When Charlie first began to give me pam- 
phlets on conmiunism and talked to me about the party and invited 
me to the meetings. At that time I thought it was O. K. and doing 
good work. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you have any complaint against the form of Amer- 
ican government under which you were raised? 

Mr. NiMMO. No complaint about the form of government under 
which I was raised. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you ever have any com))laint against the func- 
tioning of the union in which you were one of the leaders? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you feel the Communist program would help 
you as a union leader ? 

Mr. NiMMo. I didn't see communism at the time as an evil. I began 
to learn that as I went along. I frankly thought it was a good thing 
to be honest with you. I didn't think there was anything evil 
about it. 

Mr. Doyle. This city committee you mentioned; how many mem- 
bers were on it? 

Mr. NiMMO. There were never more than five at any time. 

Mr. Doyle. How often did they meet? 

Mr. NiMMO. That is another thing I really don't know. I know 
this. Sometimes there wouldn't be a meeting for 3 months; and 
sometimes there might be 1 every month for a period of time; and 
then 1 in 3 months, and so forth. 

Mr. Doyle. In answering the question of my distinguished col- 
league, ]Mr. Scherer, when he asked you about the Communist Party 
with reference to the Negro; whether or not the Communist Party 
helped the Negro or tried to, three times you said, "Very definitely 
not." Do you remember so saying? 

Mr. NiMMo. Yes, 1 do. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you ever hear the Communist Party in America 
propose there be a Negro State? 

Mr. NiMMO. No; I never heard tliat. T remember reading some 
literature on the Cjuestion of self-determination; but 1 never heard of 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7447 

the Negro State. This might boil down to the same thing but I never 
heard any such spoken statement as that, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Did Charles Smolikoff tell you it was one of the policies 
of the Commmiist Party ? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Didn't he say it was one of their objectives? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir. 

JMr. ScHEKER. It was one of their objectives until they found out 
it was impossible. 

Mr. Doyle. Did Charles Smolikoff discuss with you the use of force 
and violence ? 

Mr. NiMMO. No, sir, I never heard any such discussion relative 
to the overthrow of government by force or violence. Of course, I 
read a lot about it but I never heard any discussions about it. 

Mr. Doyle. You say j^ou read a lot about it ? 

Mr. NiMMO. In the ]:)apers but I never attended any meetings where 
there were discussions relative to that. 

Mr. Doyle. You have been in this room several hours when I asked 
this same question of the other witnesses that I am now about to 
ask you. Under Public Law 601 of the 79th Congress, this committee 
was assigned the responsibility of making a study of subversive 
acti^dties and propaganda whether they originated in the United 
States or elsewhere; and as the result of this study and survey to 
recommend to the Congress any legislation dealing with subversive 
activities whether it came from the Communist Party or any other 
subversive group or person or program. Have you any suggestion 
to make to us as Congressmen, as we are all Congressmen of tlie 
United States. By that, I mean although I am from Los Angeles 
County in California and these other gentlemen are from other sec- 
tions of the country, we are still your United States Congressmen. 
INIost people don't realize that we are interested in every section 
of the country. Do you have any suggestions for legislation dealing 
with the Commmiist Party program or any program determined to 
undermine our constitutional f onn of government ? Have you thought 
about that subject at all? 

Mr. NiMMO. I can't say that I have thought about it in any specific 
way; but I want to say this: I certainly feel that the Congressmen 
or Congress or the elected officials of the Government of our country 
would be delinquent in their duties if they failed to legislate laws for 
the protection and preservation of aur democratic way of life. I feel 
that not enough can be done in trying to preserve our democracy. 

It is my belief that exposing conununism is one of the surest means 
of putting people on the alert as to the danger that could befall our 
country from time to time and awaken them to the danger ; and pre- 
vent such a thing from taking place. However, I do not know if I 
can add in any way any specific legislation that could be had. I think 
that would have to be worked out by you gentlemen in Congress with 
a little more understanding than I have, sir. 

I feel this. There are a large number of people like myself who got 
into the Communist Party and were anxious to get out but hesitated 
to do so; and the main reason for this, I believe, was because like me, 
they didn't have the courage to stand up firmly as they could have 
done and should have done. I felt the same way when I first found 
out I was going wrong. 



7448 coMMUisriST activities in the state of Florida 

Mr. Doyle. I want to tliank you for answering the question so 
frankly ; and I want to ask you to use your fine leadership and ability 
against subversive activities and propaganda. 

Mr. NiMMO. I would be very glad to, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you now a union leader ? Are you now an elected 
official of any union group ? 

Mr. NiMMO. Not now, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. I wish you would put your fine effort in that area and 
try to help prevent subversive activities in organized labor. That 
is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Nimmo, for your testimony and statements here 
before us, your Congress and Un-American Activities Committee 
would like to express their gratitude that you are lending your fine, 
patriotic service to your country and by giving this information upon 
which future legislation can be based. You are now discharged. 

Mr. NiMMO. I want to thank you and the committee for your very 
cordial treatment toward me; and I will be happy to serve in any 
capacity at any time. I have the address of the FBI and I will keep 
in touch with them whenever they need me. I am going to get in 
touch with Mr. Brautigam over there and cooperate all I can. 

Mr. Clardy. These hearings are very tough work; and what my 
brother said here is right, "It is what we are getting underpaid for; 
not paid for." 

Mr. Nimmo. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Velde. The next witness, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Lois Baker. 

Mr. Velde. Would you raise your right hand and be sworn, please ? 

In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee, 
do you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Baker. I do. 

Mr. KuNziG. Would you give us your full name, please ? 

TESTIMONY OP LOIS BAKER, ACCOMPANIED BY LEWIS BLAKE, 

HER COUNSEL 

Mrs. Baker. Lois Baker. 

Mr. KuNziG. Is that Mrs. Lois Baker? 

Mrs. Baker. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Baker, what is your residence, please? 

Mrs. Baker. Winter Haven, Fla. 

Mr. KuNziG. I see you are represented by counsel. Would counsel 
please state his name and address for the record ? 

Mr. Blake. Lewis Blake, 1105 Security Building, Miami, Fla. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Baker, are you employed in any way, or are 
you a housewife ? 

Mrs. Baker. I am a housewife. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Baker, where were you born ? 

Mrs. Baker. In Florida. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where ? 

Mrs. Baker. In Citrus County. 

Mr. KuNZiG. Would you tell us briefly of your education. 

Mrs. Baker. I am a high-school graduate. 

Mr. KuNziQ. Where ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7449 

Mrs. Baker. In Citrus County. 

Mr. KuNZiG. What is the name of the school ? 

Mrs. Baker. Inverness High School. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever been employed in any work at any 
time in addition to being a housewife? 

Mrs. Baker. I have not. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mrs. Baker, you have been identified by both Mr. 
Nimmo and Mr. Waller here as someone whom they knew to be a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party. Have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Baker. I fear to answer that question because I fear such an 
answer will incriminate me. 

Mr. Clardy. Will the witness please speak louder. We cannot 
hear you back here. 

Mrs. Baker, I refuse to answer the question as such answer might 
incriminate me under the Smith and McCarran Acts. 

Mr. Clardy. I didn't hear that. Would you read that back, Miss 
Reporter, real loud so we can hear it. 

(Reporter reads back last answer above.) 

Mr. Clardy. Is what you are referring to the Smith Act ; and the 
McCarran and Wood bill ? 

Mrs. Baker. That is right. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Waller testified he knew you as a member of the 
Communist Party and at one time secretary of the Communist Party 
of the State of Florida. Is that correct ? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer that on the foregoing grounds. 

(At this point Mrs. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. KuNZiG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer that on the foregoing grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you ever at any time contributed funds to the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer that on the foregoing grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. Have you at any time been responsible for raising 
funds for the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer that on the foregoing grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you secretary to district 25 of the Communist 
Party in the State of Florida ? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer on the foregoing grounds. 

Mr. KuNziG. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. Do you know anything about district 25 of the Com- 
munist Party of the State of Florida ? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer that on the foregoing grounds. 

Mr. Velde. It appears to me that you certainly do have a great deal 
of information that would be very beneficial to your country ; and as 
a loyal citizen you could give that information to this committee. You 
were secretary to the Communist Party in the State of Florida of 
district 25 ; and I think you owe a duty to your country very definitely 
to give us information about the dues you collected as secretary, and 
minutes of the meetings you took in the Communist Party cell. If 
you want to be loyal to your country, you should give us that informa> 
tion. Will you do it? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer on the foregoing grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you ever occupy any official position of any kind 
in any branch or part of the Communist Party ? 



7450 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer on the foregoing grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. I wish you would answer higher. I can see your lips 
moving and that is all I can do. You have been identified before this 
committee as a member of the party by two witnesses. Were you 
present when either of them testified ? 

Mrs. Baker. I was present at one time. 

(At this point Mrs. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Ci^^RDY. At one time. You heard the witness, Mr. Waller, 
identify you ? 

Mrs. Baker. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Cl.\Rdy. Were you here when the previous witness identified 
you? 

Mrs. Baker. Yes. 

Mr. Clardy. Was the identification he gave and the details he gave 
to us in any way untrue ? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer on the foregoing grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. You appreciate the fact that the committee is now 
giving you an opportunity to say anything you desire in repudiation 
and not in agreement with what the previous witnesses have said. We 
are affording you this opportunity to say anything you desire in con- 
nection with the previous testimony. Am I to understand that you 
are going to refuse to answer on that subject no matter how many ques- 
tions I ask or how I frame them ? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer on the foregoing grounds. 

(At this point Mrs. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Clardy. In other words, you are not going to avail yourself of 
the opportunity of speaking freely now. Is that what I am to 
understand ? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Clardy. That is hardly an answer but I take it you mean you 
are not going to answer anything. The question was asked whetlier or 
not you paid dues to the Conununist Party. I want to ask you if the 
Communist Party ever paid you anything for services or what have 
you? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer on the foregoing grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you attended any Communist Party meetings 
within recent weeks or months ? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer on the foregoing grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. Have you at any time engaged in any activity of any 
sort that might be interpreted as being espionage against your 
Goverimient ? 

Mrs. Bx\ker. I refuse to answer on the foregoing grounds, 

Mr. Clardy. Have you at any time been a member of any organ- 
ization whose avowed aim was the overthrow of this Government by 
the use of force and violence ? 

Mrs. Baker. I refuse to answer on the foregoing grounds. 

Mr. Clardy. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Scherer. Witness, you have stated that you refuse to answer 
these questions because you feel that the answers to the questions 
might tend to incriminate you. I believe in response to the first ques- 
tion you said the answers would incriminate you under the Smith Act 
and the McCarran and Wood Act. As our chairman has said, we be- 
lieve jou have a great deal of information that would be helpful to the 
committee. Are you listening to what I am saying? 



I 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7451 

Mrs. Baker. I am listening. 

Mr. ScHEREK. This Congress, shortly before it fidjourned in August, 
passed a law which gives us the right to grant you immunity from 
prosecution. I for one feel tlie information you have is of such im- 
portance that I am willing to recommend granting you that immunity. 
If this committee is willing to grant sucli immunity, would you then 
answer our questions ? 

]\Irs. Baker. Just a moment, please. 

(At this point Mrs. Baker conferred witli Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Doyle. I suggest that counsel have plenty of time to confer 
with his client so there is no hurry if this olfer takes him by surprise. 

Mr. Velde. Certainly. That has always been our policy. 

JSIrs. Baker. Does that immunity protect me 

Mr. Clardy. Would you speak up so we can hear you. 

Does the chairman think we can violate our own rules and let 
counsel state what the answers are going to be? I can't hear the 
witness at all. 

Mr. ScHERER. I am not agreeable. 

Mr. Velde. We would be accused of being unfair to the others. 

Please raise your voice a little so we can hear what you say. 

Mr. Baker. Does that immunity 

]Mr. Clardy. Step up before the box here so we can hear you. 

Mr. Velde. The reporter will come u]) here, too. 

(This reporter, the witness and her counsel, stand directly before 
the committee.) 

Mrs. Baker. Does that immunity protect me from both State and 
Federal law? 

Mr. Clardy. I can't hear you now. 

Mrs. Baker. I am sorry. 

Mr. Clardy. I don't think you are sorry at alh I think you are 
doing this deliberately. You can talk louder than that. Especially 
if you are angry at someone. And I am trying to rile you up a little 
so you will speak louder. 

Mr. Velde. Let us try again. What is the question ? 

Mr. ScHERER. The question is quite lengthy and is partially an ex- 
planation of a statute. As I said, a law was passed by this Congress 
shortly before I adjourned in August; and it gave us, this connnittee, 
with the approval of the Federal court, the right to grant immunity 
from prosecution which might result from any answer you might give 
to questions propounded to you. 

What I am saying is this : If this Committee should grant you suck 
immunity, would you then give us the information which we knoAv 
you have concerning the activities of the Communist Party in the 
State of Florida? The reason I am asking this question is that you 
said that the only reason you refused to answer the questions was 
because you have some fear that the answers given us might cause you 
to be prosecuted and you might suffer some penalties as a result of 
answering. If that is completely eliminated, would you answer the 
questions ? 

Mrs. Baker. Does that immunity extend to both State and Federal 
prosecution ? 

(At this point Mrs. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Scherer. In my opinion it does. 



7452 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mrs. Baker. In any prosecution whatsoever in any way ? 

(At this point Mrs. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. ScHERER. In my opinion it would. 

(At this point Mrs. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Velde. You may step aside for more privacy, if you wish. 

Mr. Blake. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Velde. There will be a short recess. 

(A recess is declared.) 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order. 

Mrs. Baker. From talking with my attorney, he doesn't feel like 
fhis committee 

Mr. Velde. It is not what he feels about it but what you feel. 

Mrs. Baker. I feel that this committee cannot prevent the State 
prosecution. So, therefore, I refuse to answer the questions. 

Mr. ScHERER. I really didn't hear all of the answer. Would you 
repeat the answer ? 

Mrs. Baker. From the discussion with my attorney, I feel and he 
feels that this committee cannot prevent the State from prosecuting. 
You have no control over the State prosecuting; and I, therefore, 
refuse to answer the questions. 

Mr, ScHERER. That is not exactly my question. My question is: 
If you were granted immunity so you couldn't be prosecuted — if you 
Mere granted immunity so there would be no prosecution from either 
the State or the Federal Government, would you answer the questions? 

Mrs. Baker. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. All right. That is all. 

Mr. Chairman, in view of the witness' answer, I wish to state at this 
time that at the next executive committee meeting of this committee 
I will recommend that we invoke this statute, which I believe will be 
invoked for the first time. I will move that the committee take such 
steps necessary to secure the approval of the Federal court and grant 
this witness immunity under the statute. 

Mr. Velde. Certainly, the Chair concurs with that; and I would 
seriously recommend to the State court that if this witness will give 
us her testimony that they see to it that she is granted immunity. 
I think until we decide these matters, we should dismiss this witness ; 
but she is still under subpena. 

The committee will be in executive session now . 

(Thereupon, the committee left the hearing room to enter executive 
session at 3 : 15 p. m., and returned in 10 minutes.) 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order. 

Witness, the committee has decided to continue your testimony for 
the present time and take account under the statute we have been dis- 
cussing. So, you are dismissed at this time under subpena of the 
committee. 

Mr. Clardy. Perhaps we should make a brief statement and say 
that the statutory procedure must be followed before immunity can 
be granted out of the committee with a petition before the court. So, 
it will be some time before you hear from the committee. 

Mrs. Baker. I understand. 

Mr. Velde. The next witness, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. KuNziG. Harvey Baker. 

Mr. Velde. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7453 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give here before this 
committee this afternoon will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Baker. I do. 

Mr. KuNziG. State your full name, please, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF HARVEY G. BAKER, ACCOMPANIED BY LEWIS 

BLAKE, ESQ., HIS COUNSEL 

Mr, Baker. I don't know whether you are going to be able to hear 
me any better than my wife. 

Mr. KuNziG. I can hear you. Your full name, please. 

Mr. Baker. Harvey G. Baker. 

Mr. KuNziG. What is your address ^ 

Mr. Baker. Winter Haven, Fla. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you related in any way to the previous witness ? 

Mr. Baker. I am her husband. 

Mr. KuNziG. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Baker. Florida; Daytona Beach. 

Mr. KuNziG. When? 

Mr. Baker. 1910. 

Mr. KuNziG. Give us a brief resume of your education. 

Mr. Baker. High school. 

Mr. KuNziG. Where did you graduate? 

Mr. Baker. Daytona Beach. 

Mr. KuNziG. And your employment? 

Mr. Baker. I am a sign painter and electrician or electrical worker. 
Actually you don't start that way. 

Mr. KuNziG. Are you in electrical work now ? 

Mr. Baker. Yes. 

Mr. KuNziG. Do you have a store of your own or do you work for 
somebody else ? 

Mr. Baker. I am employed. 

Mr. KuNziG. By whom ? 

Mr. Baker. I want to state that I am going to invoke the fifth 
amendment ; and I am going to do it so the questions won't implicate 
me. 

Mr. KuNziG. That was a simple question I asked now. By whom 
are you employed? 

Mr. Baker. I am employed by Swift & Co. 

(At this point Mr. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. KuNziG. Where? 

Mr. Baker. In Polk County; the county of my residence. 

Mr. KuNziG. Now, you were identified by Mr. Waller 2 days ago 
as someone he knew to be a member of the Communist Party. Was 
lie correct in that identification ? 

Mr. Baker. I am refusing to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. I will give you a more formal statement, if you like. 

Mr. KuNziG. I think your answer is complete enough. Have you 
been a member of the Communist Party, Mr. Baker? 

Mr. Baker. I am answering that I refuse. 

Mr. KuNziG. You refuse to answer for the same reasons? 

Mr. Baker. Yes. 



7454 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. Kttnzig. Are yon now at this moment as yon sit in this court- 
room in Miami a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Baker. I refuse to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. KuNziG. Were you ever connected with the shipbniklers union? 

JNIr. Baker. I refuse to answer. It mij>;ht tend to form a link or 
chain of evidence. 

Mr. Ktjxzig. And it might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Baker. It might incriminate me. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Waller said he knew Harvey Baker, and when he 
did he was executive secretary of local 82 in Jacksonville, Fla., of 
the shipbuilders union. Is that statement true? 

Mr. Baker. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Doyle. Did you live in Jacksonville, Fla., at one time? 

Mr. Baker. I decline to answer the question on the chain of evi- 
dence possibility. 

Mr. Velde. Witness, there is no possible way in answering that 
question it will incriminate you. You are directed to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Baker. I would like to read you my answer. I refuse to an- 
swer that question because I fear such an answer might furnish a link 
in a chain of evidence that could be used to incriminate me under the 
Smith and McCarran Acts, and I therefore wish to avail myself of 
the privileges afforded under the fifth amendment to the Constitution 
of the United States. 

(At this point Mr. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Velde. Have you ever been engaged in any activities of any 
nature as under the Smith Act, such as overthrowing the Government, 
and so forth ? 

Mr. Baker. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. KuNziG. Mr. Waller went on to testify, "Subsequently he went 
to work for the FTA." That is the Agricultural, Food and Tobacco 
Workers. Is that true ? 

Mr. Baker. I refuse to answer. That can become a link in a chain 
of evidence. 

Mr. ScHERER. I ask the chairman to direct the witness to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Velde. That is certainly no incriminating evidence. You are 
directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Baker. My answer is the same as I just read. 

Mr. Velde. In other words, you refuse to answer. I realize the 
witness has counsel but I want to call it not only to your attention 
but to counsel's attention that there have been many witnesses cited 
for contempt of Congress for refusing to answer questions that in no 
way incriminated them. Certainly, I would be, and my colleagues 
too, for citing you for contempt if you refuse to answer questions that 
will not incriminate you. 

Mr. Baker. I have heard of the case of Rogers v. The United States 
Government. Someone waited too long to invoke the fifth amendment 
and found themselves in worse trouble than if they had spoken. I 
want it that way. 

Mr. Velde. The Rogers case was a very different situation than 
what we are asking you about; residence. I am asking you again; 
Will you tell us if you ever resided in Jacksonville? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7455 

Mr. Baker. Can you explain to me the materiality of the question 
in hand? 

Mr. Clardy. Mr. Chairman, direct the witness to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Velde. I certainly shall direct the witness to answer the ques- 
tion. The committee decides what questions are material or im- 
material. 

Mr. Baker. I say I decline to answer. The answer might furnish 
a link in a chain of evidence. 

Mr. ScHERER. I would like to state at this point that I would like 
JNIr. Kunzig to read the last question or restate it with regard to 
employment, 

Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Baker, did you ever work for the Food, Tobacco 
and Agricultural Workers ? 

Mr. Baker. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Scherer. Now, direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Velde. I see no possible way that you could incriminate your- 
self under the constitutional privilege. Answer the question. 

Mr. Baker. I am afraid it might furnish a link in a chain of 
evidence. 

(At this point JNIr. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. VELnE. Let me get you straight. Is that the only grounds you 
have upon which to base refusal ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't see any choice but to read by statement again. 
I refuse to answer that question because I fear that such an answer 
might furnisli a link in a chain of evidence that might be used to 
incriminate me under the Smith and McCarran Acts. Therefore, I 
wish to avail myself of the privilege afforded by the fifth amendment 
of tlie Constitution of the United States. 

(At this point Mr. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Kunzig. Mr. Waller went on to sny that you were approxi- 
mately between 40 and 45 years of age; "a medium height and skinny- 
built guy," and weighing approximately 150 pounds. That was at the 
conclusion of tlie testmony Mr. Waller gave us. 

Mr. Clardy. Isn't that an accurate description of you ? 

Mr. Baker. I think he overestimates my age. 

Mr. Clardy. How much ? 

Mr. Baker. Tlie testimony will show that I don't remember. 

Mr. Clardy. How old are you ? 

Mr. Baker. I am 44. 

jNIr. Scherer. Didn't Mr. Waller know you well enough to judge 
j'^our age? 

Mr. Baker. I refuse to answer that. 

(Mr. Baker at this point conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Kunzig. Have you at any time been engaged in any espionage 
activities at any time? 

Mr. Baker. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Kunzig. Are you now engaged in any Communist Party 
espionage activities against the United States of America? 

Mr. Baker. I refuse to answer that. It might incriminate me. 

Mr. Kunzig. I have no further questions.^, 

Mr. Scherer. Witness, is your wife a member of the Communist 
Party? 



7456 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr. Baker. I refuse to answer that. By your own rules I am en- 
titled not to answer that question. 

Mr. Clardy. Our own rules do not permit you to use that objection ; 
but anyway you are not ^oing to answer ? 

Mr. Baker. I would like to give a better reason. It might tend to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Clardy. You only invoke the fifth amendment as it applies to 
you? 

Mr. Baker. That is right; and I am doing it. 

Mr. KuNziG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Baker, when you are through conferring with your 
counsel. 

Mr. Baker. All right. 

Mr. Doyle. I am always glad to have a witness do that. I would 
like to ask you a question or two. You said under the Smith Act, as 
I understood you, you might form a chain of evidence. 

Mr. Baker. I was referring to the Smith and McCarran Acts. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you read those acts ? 

Mr. Baker. I am answering partly on the advice of counsel. 

Mr. Doyle. What portion of the Smith and McCarran Acts were 
you referring to ? 

Mr. Baker. I would be glad to have my lawyer answer the question. 

Mr. Doyle. I am asking you. Your lawyer cannot be the witness. 
You are the witness. 

Mr. Baker. I will speak the law then. 

(At this point Mr. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. At this time are you familiar with 
the Smith and McCarran Acts so you can answer accurately what 
provisions you are relying on ; or are you making a statement because 
your lawyer told you to ? 

Mr. Baker. I understand, or I have an opinion, that the Smith and 
McCarran Acts made certain things illegal or felonious so that I can 
be put in jail where the questions are unfair to me. 

Mr. Doyle. You heard our distinguished chairman relate that that 
act only applied — just a minute. Counsel. Let me talk to your wit- 
ness. The act only applied to teaching or advocating the use of force 
and violence for the overthrow of our Government. 

Mr. Baker. I believe the law is quite inclusive. It even includes 
association. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you read the law ? 

Mr. Baker. I have read reports in newspapers and things like that. 

Mr. D0YI.E. Where else besides the daily newspaper ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know. 

(Mr. Baker at this point conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. Counsel, please, when you are finished. 

Mr. Velde. He has the right to confer with counsel. 

(At this point Mr. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Baker. Do you want me to refer back to that question or to 
proceed ? 

Mr. Doyle. No ; what is it counsel told you ? 

Mr, Baker. My counsel advised me there is not a proper predicate 
for that question. 

Mr. Doyle. Not a proper predicate? Let me see, are we in gram- 
mar school here ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7457 

(At this point Mr. Blake conferred with Mr. Baker.) 

Mr. Doyle. You mean there is not sufficient foundation laid. Is 
that what you are getting at? Of course, counsel is not permitted to 
address the committee. This is not a court of law. We are not 
bound by the laws of evidence. We are not required to ask questions 
that lay the groundwork for foundation before we ask the question. 
You know that. This is an investigation, not a court of law. 

Mr. Baker. But I am bound by the law. 

Mr. Doyle. You are ; and so am I ; but this is not a court of law. 
You volunteered the statement that you read about the law in the news- 
paper. In what newspaper did you read about it ? 

Mr. Baker. I refuse to answer on the ground that it may tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Let me see if I understand your answer. I asked you 
in what newspaper you read about the Smith and McCarran law and 
you answered it might tend to incriminate you. I ask the chairman 
to direct the witness to answer the question. 

Mr. Velde. I don't see any reason why reading any of our great 
American newspapers would tend to incriminate you at all. You are 
directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Baker. I regret I have to so often refer to this answer ; it might 
furnish a link in the chain of evidence. 

Mr. Doyle. To merely give the name of some American newspaper 
might in someway incriminate you ? 

Mr. Baker. That is what I intend to imply. 

Mr. Doyle. What newspaper; daily newspaper do you read as a 
matter of habit ? 

(At this point Mr. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Doyle. Can't you answer that without conferring with your 
lawyer ? 

Mr. Baker. I read the Tampa Tribune. 

Mr. Doyle. Is that the only newspaper you read ? "V^^iat I am try- 
ing to get at from you is an honest-to-God answer ; for a frank answer. 
What newspaper did you read this in ? 

(At this point Mr. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Doyle. I am not trying to trip you or impeach you. I am 
trying to get an honest, frank, American answer ; that is all. 

(At this point Mr. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Baker. I can restate what I said. I read the Tampa Tribune. 

Mr. Doyle. Is that where you read the article ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know. 

Mr. Doyle. How long ago did you read the article on which you 
are relying ? 

Mr. Baker. I don't know. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you get any other newspapers to which you sub- 
scribe that come into your home ? 

Mr, Baker. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you get the Daily Worker or the Peoples' Dailv 
World? ^ ^ 

(At this point Mr. Baker conferred with Mr. Blake.) 

Mr. Doyle. T^t me ask you a frank question. Isn't it true that 
you might have read about the Smitli and McCarran Acts when 
you were reading the Daily Worker or the Peoples' Daily World or 
some other Communist literature? 



7458 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

Mr, Baker. I decline to answer tliat on the ground it might tend 
to incriminate me. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you the f atlier of any children ? 

Mr. Baker. I think I can answer that for you; yes. 

Mr. Doyle. Are you going to plead the same way on that? 

Mr. Baker. I might question the relevancy of the question. 

Mr. Doyle. The relevancy of the question is, sir 1 am going to 

ask you again and from the answer to that question will be another 
question which will be relevant. 

Mr. Veldk. lie did answer. He said, "Yes." 

Mr. Doyle. Have those children so far attended any Connnunist 
classes with your knowledge and permission? 

Mr. Baker. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, you can't answer frankly as an Ameri- 
can father whether or not you allowed your children to go to Com- 
munist Party classes. 

Mr. Baker. I decline to answer that too. 

Mr. Doyle. No further questions. 

Mr. Velde. Any further questions, Mr. Counsel? 

Mr. KuNziG. No, sir; no further questions. 

Mr. Velde. I wnsh to say that I am very much disai)pointed; and 
the other committee members are very much disappointed in your 
refusal to give information about the activities in the Communist 
Party. I think you should go home tonight and think this problem 
over. If you are a loyal American citizen, which I doubt very much; 
you will come forward and give the answers to tlie questions which 
we know you have. You are dismissed. 

Mr. Velde. Any f ui-ther witnesses, Mr. Counsel ? 

Mr. KuNziG. No further witnesses, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Velde. With my colleagues, let me say on behalf of the com- 
mittee that Ave owe a lot to various people in the State of Florida. 

May I have order, please. 

First of all, I would like to say to this physical audience present 
that you have been veiT attentive and very orderly ; and for that we 
are thankful. In many places we have gone throughout the country 
we have experienced a lot worse treatment so far as we were concerned 
because the audiences were filled witli Connnunists and Connnunist 
sympathizers. It is apparent to me that there are no Communist 
sympathizers in this audience today. 

Next, we have been afforded courteous treatment by all the citizens 
in this area, with the exception of some of the witnesses who appeared 
here; and we are especially appreciative to two judges down here — 
Judge Holland and Judge Whitehurst. I understand that in order 
to make this courtroom available to us for these hearings they had to 
use another smaller room for their own courtroom work. We have 
been most courteously treated by Mr. Green, superintendent of the 
building; and Marshal Hickson who preserved order; and J. P. Adams 
and Mr. Mallick for order in the courtroom. Thanks for the assist- 
ance of the Honorable James L. Guilmartin, TTnited States district 
attorney for the southern district of Florida; and the bar association 
for cooperating with us in obtaining counsel for two witnesses who 
were unable to obtain counsel of their own. And may we praise the 
television, newsreel, and newspaper men who have given us such fine 
and courteous treatment. For that we are thankful. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7459 

I want to particularly thank those witnesses who came forward to 
testify. It takes a lot of courage to come forward and give your story 
of Communist Party connections. I want you to understand that we 
investigate other things beside the Communist Party ; but communism 
is the present danger. 

As m}^ last act as chairman of the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, I want to tliank my good friends who came down to be on 
these hearings, mj colleagues here, for the fair treatment they ex- 
tended to me and the spirit of cooperation they have shown to best 
operate as a nonpartisan committee. As you realize, if we engaged 
in partisan politics, it would be very favorable to the Soviet Govern- 
ment and the Communist Party. 

I want to say this. I do feel there is still a hard core of Communist 
Party members operating in the State of Florida. However, the 
situation, I feel, is not as bad in the State of Florida or any place 
in the Southeast as it has been in other parts of the country in which 
we held hearings. Your success is evidenced in this area a great deal 
by your interest in combating a communism in all its forms of sub- 
version. We mentioned awhile ago that we are getting out to the 
public an artcile. The American Negro and Communism ; and we have 
other literature available to those interested in what the United States 
Government and Congress is doing to overcome subversion ; and for 
those of you who are particularly interested in learning more about 
the various threats to our Government through subversion, you are 
invited to write in to the committee for various pamphlets and other 
information we have available to you. 

Let me say, with the exception of the executive meeting which will 
deal with the business of the committee to be held right after we 
adjourn here. I will have nothing more to do with the operation of 
the committee other than to act as ranking Republican member of the 
committee next year. I thank you. 

Mr. Clardy. I would particularly like to mention that today as 
1 left the building at noon to walk over to the place I was lunching, 
a citizen came up to me and suggested that we should call to your 
attention the fact that when a member of the bar association appears 
on behalf of a witness, he becomes identified with the member of the 
Communist party. No inference should be drawn that an attorney 
is doing anything improper or on behalf of the members of the Com- 
munist Party. 

All the members of the committee, with the exception of one, are 
attorneys. "We know, as attorneys, we are charged with the duty of 
representing anyone who asks our services. These attorneys ap- 
peared here today as officers of the court and to do what any attorney 
generally would do Avhen his services are souglit. I am underscoring 
that because this lady who came up to me had overheard a conversa- 
tion that was strictly condemning an attorney who a])peared here. 
When an attorney is doing what he is charged with doing under his 
oath of office that does not mean that he, himself, is sympathetic with 
the cause of the Communist Party. 

That raises a point. I agree with the local judge for disbarring 
an attorney j^i'i^cticing in this area and making it clear that no at- 
torney can possibly be a member of the Comnnniist Party and be 
true to his oath as a member of the bar. Any attorney who takes the 
fifth amendment, in the opinion of the court, when asked questions 



7460 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

as to membership in the Communist Party is doing something in- 
compatible with his oath ; and makes it impossible for him to be an 
honest officer of the court. We have three such recommendations on 
three members of the bar in my own State ; and I have called the at- 
tention to the association of the case I have referred to in this State 
versus Sheiner. 

Something was said by a witness the other day. This witness said 
something along the line that we should be alerted much more than 
we are to the dangers of communism. I am inclined to agree with 
that witness. I think the function of gaining information by this 
committee is as important a function as presenting legislation to the 
Congress. We were the originators of the bill that actually would 
almost outlaw communism, and other important legislation; but I 
don't think that is as important a function as bringing to the attention 
of the people of the United States the grave nature of the threat of 
communism and those who associate with it, the communist fronts 
and left wingers. 

There is one other thing. This committee can do very, very little 
in fighting this evil. All it can do is call it to the public attention 
and propose legislation to the Congress. It is primarily a local duty 
and a local movement. I hope you start coming down to the real job 
of finishing this; because this committee has only been here for a 
brief period of time and only scraped the surface, so to speak. The 
real job is to be carried on by the local churches, the bar association, 
and others. I don't want you to think because we have been here we 
have wound up everything all fresh and clean. 

In my opinion, I think the threat of communism today is greater 
than any time in history. I am afraid that unless the people are 
alerted in this community and in other communities, we may find our- 
selves in a lot more trouble than you can imagine. The world scene 
today is one of turmoil. It is not for us to think there is plenty of time. 
They are intent on destroying this Government and all those asso- 
ciated with it ; and if our necks are about to be stretched, yours will be 
next. I hope you will join in the fight with us ; and it is up to you to 
carry it on. Thank you. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer. 

Mr, Scherer. I have no remarks. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle, I think you should proceed with that smog 
business out there. 

Mr. DoTLE. Being the only member of the committee here on the 
Democratic side of the political aisle in Congress at this meeting, 
I appreciate the courtesy of the chairman in calling upon me to make 
a few remarks as we close our committee hearings here in this beauti- 
ful city of Miami in the magnificent State of Florida. 

I want to emphasize for our hearers and the record that it is a very 
difficult and trying job to act as chairman of our committee of nine 
members and also perform your duties as a United States Congress- 
man. The committee presently consists of 5 Eepublicans and 4 Demo- 
crats, but in the 84th Congress there will be 5 Democrats and 4 Re- 
publicans. But we as a committee are functioning primarily as 
American Congressmen rather than as Democrats and Republicans. 
We will miss you as chairman, Mr. Velde. You have been remark- 
ably fair at times. I, as a committee member and a Democrat, appre- 
ciate it. We are all glad you are going to stay on the committee as the 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7461 

ranking Republican and we wish you a very happy experience on your 
forthcoming marriage and honeymoon. 

In view of your pleasant remark, Mr. Chairman, that I, from Los 
Angeles County, Calif., should do something about the smog that you 
read about as being out there in that part of my native State, I wish to 
say that I brought with me from Los Angeles County a bottle filled 
with smog, and the reason Mrs. Doyle and I brought it with us in our 
automobile drive of 3,500 miles from Los Angeles County to Mianii 
was so I could pour it on the water should there be a Florida hurri- 
cane while the committee is here and while we are visiting beautiful 
Florida. We in California have a real affection for Florida. Both 
States are magnificent and both States have had, and will have, in- 
creasing importance in the destiny of our beloved Nation. We have 
very, very much in common, and, of course, every State in the Union 
of States in interdependent so that the prosperity or misfortune of 
any State helps build or limit every other State. As a native son of 
California, I wish the whole State of Florida great prosperity, and 
the people of Florida richer happiness and satisfactions in 1955 than 
even were had in 1954. 

I wish to emphasize that this subcommittee which has been sitting 
here with you in this beautiful courthouse room in Miami these few 
days, is not a subcommittee of a special congressional committee, for 
the House Un-American Activities Committee is one of the regular 
permanent House of Representatives committees and was so desig- 
nated by the House Rules and by the action of all the Members of the 
House. This committee of 9 members, of which we 5 members are a 
subcommittee, was created under Public Law 601. Under said law 
601, we have the specific duty and assignment to be here in Florida, 
or any other place in the Nation, under the terms of that law, where it 
is found necessary and advisable to hold hearings after investiga- 
tions as to the extent of Communist or other subversive un-American 
activities and propaganda. We did not come here for a vacation trip 
or experience. I would much rather have stayed in sunny California 
with my immediate family, loved ones, and friends and even gone on a 
hunting or fishing trip which I missed on account of having to come 
here. It likewise would have been much more comfortable for other 
committee members from Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, and Illinois to 
take a well-earned vacation before they returned to their difficult 
work at the Nation's Capital beginning January 5 next. But, since 
our distinguished chairman asked me to make some further appro- 
priate remarks, I have two or three extemporaneous suggestions to 
make especially to you residents of beautiful Miami and throughout 
the State of Florida. 

These suggestions are as follows : 

1. Cooperate with your local police and other law enforcement 
officers more than you have heretofore. By local authorities I mean 
your local police department, local district attorney, the United States 
district attorney and his staff and the local representatives of the FBI. 
They are working locally and throughout the State to uncover, reveal, 
and defeat subversive activities wherever found. It is of utmost im- 
portance that there be sound, tactful, patriotic cooperation between 
the loyal local citizens in every community with their local responsible 
law-enforcement officials. 



7462 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 

2. Teach your own children in your own homes more love, respect, 
and affection for the tlag of the United States of America. And, like- 
wise, see to it that in the public and private schoolrooms the children 
and American youth there will likewise habitually be taught the neces- 
sity and value of love, resjiect, and affection for the Stars and Stripes. 
And, of course, it should be self-evident for every thinking American 
that just in proportion as adult Americans love, respect, and apply 
affection and loyalty to the Stars and Stripes, just to that degree will 
our American children and American youth learn by perception and 
practice to have the same standard of love, respect, and affection for 
our American flag and for our beloved Nation. Over the Nation here 
and there there is a shocking lack of display of the Stars and Stripes. 
Furthermore, just in ])roportion as we adult Americans give practical 
application to a patriotic recognition by us, and each of us individually 
and in groups, that we live in the greatest and finest and fairest nation 
in the world's history, just to that extent will our own children have 
living examples of what they, as American children and American 
youth, should expect to be when they, too, reach their adult citizenship 
responsibilities and duties. In a very large measure our children are 
what we make them by our own day-by-day example of conduct and 
practices and relationships to our neighbors and to our local. State, and 
National Governments, and to our local. State, and nationally chosen, 
elected, or appointed government officials. Lack of respect for the flag 
an dour National, State, or local governments and agencies does not 
begin because of lack on the children's part. It begins because of the 
lack in the adult population of our cities. States, and Nation. It is 
adult delinquency, negligence, and fault in the first instance. 

3. I wish to say this : That this subcommittee is not here in Miami 
and Florida because the United States Congress has authorized us or 
wants us to in any way interfere with freedom of thought in our Ameri- 
can life and experience. Personally I recognize the privilege and 
power and appropriateness of patriotic difference of opinion. The 
freedom to have difference of opinion is the backbone of prosperity in 
the American way of life. And I, as one American, recognize that the 
citizen who patriotically differs with me in my patriotic opinion may 
prove to be a lot more valuable in his patriotic expression of them than 
I. Fiu'thermore, I take the position that every American citizen has 
a legal and a moral right and duty to think as he pleases, to be what he 
pleases, to do as he pleases; provided, however, that he does these 
things within the bounds and limits of the four corners of the United 
States Constitution. For to do these things or any of them outside the 
four corners of the Constitution is to eveiitually do them in violation 
of constitutional law and government. That is exactly what the Com- 
munist Party in America and every subversive group or subversive or- 
ganization are practicing. They set themselves up as above and ))ara- 
mount to constitutional law and constitutional government. They 
seek to subvert and destroy by force and violence, if need be, and they 
justify it out of force and violence when the time comes in their judg- 
ment to use it. It is this advocacy of the use of force and violence 
which is one of the chiefest of results I, as a Member of the United 
States Congress, find satisfaction in the discharge of my official duties 
as a member of this House Un-American Activities Comndttee. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA 7463 

It is also my duty and privilege to serve as a member of the Com- 
mittee on Armed Services, in connection with vrhich it has been my 
responsibility and privilege to visit officially most of the countries of 
the world. 

This leads me to state that the last time I was in Europe, China, 
and the Philippines as a INIember of Congress I had the benefit of 
speaking and visiting at some length with certain American ambassa- 
dors, consulate officers, and intelligence officers, both American and 
foreign. And when I asked whether or not they would give me an 
opinion, if they had one, as to the extent of the Communist conspiracy 
in Korea, China, the Philippines, France, Germany, Africa, and so 
forth, and the relationship between the aggressive Communist con- 
spiracy in the United States, they unanimously replied that they 
believed it was the same international subversive conspiracy to ag- 
gressively and militarily, if need be, destroy constitutional govern- 
ment in the United States and in other freeclom-loving nations. 

Mr. Chairman, in closing these extemporaneous remarks I wish to 
again give the invitation you and other members of this committee 
have so often heard me give during the last 3 or 4 years to those Amer- 
ican people who may hear my voice and who may have at one time or 
another joined the Communist Party or a known or unknown Commu- 
nist front or some subversive grou]) or program — that invitation, as 
you know, Mr. Chairman, which I habitually give at committee hear- 
ings, is to each and every one of these persons, wherever they may be, 
to come forward and let it be known to the committee, to their own 
duly constituted law-enforcement officers, that they have backed away 
and have withdrawn from former Communist affiliations or associa- 
tions and desire to now cooj^erate with constituted law and govern- 
ment to uncover, expose, and eradicate such elements in our beloved 
Nation. 

Thank you ver}^ much, Mr. Chairman, for your courtesy in calling 
upon me for these remarks just before we adjourn our conunittee. 

Mr. Velde. Thank you very much, Mr. Doyle, for a very fine state- 
ment: and unless there is anvthing further to come before the com- 
mittee we will adjourn sine die. 

(Whereupon, at 3:55 p. m., the hearing was adjourned.) 



I 



INDEX 



Individuals 

Page 

Adler, Leah (see also Leah Adler Benemovsky) 7434, 7445 

Baker, Harvey G 7453-7458 (testimony) 

Baker, Lois 7440, 7448-7452 (testimony) 

Benemovsky, Leah Adler (see also Leah Adler) 7434 

Bishop, Walter ' 7439, 7441, 7442 

Blake, Lewis 7448-7458 

Brautigam, Mr 7448 

Carbonell, Jose (Joe) 7424,7425,7438,7443,7445 

Careouthers, Sam 7439 

Chase, Homer 7438 

Eldred, Quentin T 7405-7411, 7419-7423 

Fernandez, Frank 7408,7419-7423 (testimony) 

Florio, Mr 7429, 7430 

Flynn, Elizabeth Gurley 7444 

Hartle, Barbara 7442 

Hirsch, Samuel 7423 

Johnson, Oran 7441 

Kantor. Tess 7433 

McGrail, Mike 7425 

Nelson, George 7438, 7440, 7443, 7445 

Nimmo, James 7426-7448 ( testimony ), 7449 

O'Connor, Tom 7422 

Popps, Lou 7435, 7442 

Quill, Mike 7443 

Robinson, Foster ^ 7438, 7439, 7442 

Rodriguez, Alfredo 7408 

Rodriguez, Mariano 7405-7411 (testimony) 

Shantzek, Mike 7433 

Shlafrock, Hilda 7423-7426 (testimony) 

Shlafrock, Mas 7424, 7425 

Smolikoff, Charles 7428-7437, 7439, 7441-7443, 7445-7447 

Soloman, Joseph 7412-7418 (testimony) 

Spicey, David 7435, 7442 

Sug, Mr. (Sugs) 7435 

Tamargo, Jose 7407, 7408, 7420 

Trainor, Alex 7438 

Waller, Edwin 7407, 7415, 7416, 7434, 7435, 7449, 7450, 7453-7455 

Organizations 

Food, Tobacco, Agricultural and Cannery Workers 7454, 7455 

Laundry Workers' International Union 7428, 7440 

Transport Workers of America 7434 

United Mine Workers, CIO, District 50 7429 

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