Skip to main content

Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the State of Florida. Hearings"

See other formats


t^ 


T. 


cM 


oMAiLi^li^^ 


■^l 


\'A 


Given  By 


3^ 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE 
STATE  OF  FLORIDA— Part  2 


HEARING 


BEFORE  THE 


COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE  OF  REPRESENTATIVES 


EIGHTY-THIRD  CONGRESS 

SECOND  SESSION 


DECEMBER  1,  1954 


Printed  for  the  use  of  the  Committee  on  ITn-American  Activities 


INCLUDING  INDEX 


UNITED   STATES 
GOVERNMENT  PRINTING  OFFICE 
55634  WASHINGTON  :   1955 


Boston  Public  Library 
Superintendent  of  Documents 

FEB  2    1955 


•.V\' 


COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 

United  States  House  of  Representatives 

HAROLD  H.  VELDE,  Illinois,  Chairman 

BERNARD  W.  KEARNEY,  New  York  FRANCIS  B.  WALTER,  Pennsylvania 

DONALD  L.  JACKSON,  California  MORGAN  M.  MOULDER,  Missouri 

KIT  CLARDY,  Michigan  CLYDE  DOYLE,  California 

GORDON  H.  SCHBRER,  Ohio  JAMES  B.  FRAZIER,  Jr.,  Tennessee 

ROBERT  L.  KuNziR,  Counscl 

FRANK  S.  Tavenner,  Jr.,  Counsel 

Thomas  W.  Beale,  Sr.,  Chief  Clerk 

Raphael  I.  Nixon,  Director  of  Research 

Courtney  E.  Owens,  Chief  Investigator 

n 


CONTENTS 


December  1,  1954,  testimony  of —  Page 

Mariano  Rodriguez 7405 

Joseph  Soloman 7412 

Frank  Fernandez 7419 

Hilda  Shlafrock 7423 

James  Nimmo 7426 

Afternoon  session 7440 

James  Nimmo  (resumed) 7440 

Lois  Baker 7448 

Harvey  G.  Baker 7453 

Index i 

III 


Public  Law  601,  TQth  Congress 

The  legislation  under  which  the  House  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities  operates  is  Public  Law  601,  T9th  Congress  [1946],  chapter 
753, 2d.  session,  which  provides : 

Be  it  enacted  iy  the  Senate  arid  House  of  Representatives  of  the  United  States 
of  America  in  Conffress  assembled,  *  *  * 

PART  2— RULES  OF  THE  HOUSE  OF  REPRESENTATIVES 
******* 

Rule  X 

SEC.  121.    STANDING  COMMITTEES 
******* 

17.  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  to  consist  of  nine  members. 
*  *  *  *  *  *  * 

Rule  XI 

POWERS  AND  DUTIES  OF  COMMITTEES 
******* 

(q)    (1)   Committee  on  Un-American  Activities. 

(A)    Un-American  activities. 

(2)  The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  as  a  wliole  or  by  subcommit- 
tee, is  authorized  to  malve  from  time  to  time  investigations  of  (i)  the  extent, 
character,  and  objects  of  un-American  propaganda  activities  in  the  United  States, 
(ii)  the  diffusion  within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  un-American  propa- 
ganda that  is  instigated  from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic  origin  and 
attaclis  the  principle  of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by  our  Constitu- 
tion, and  (iii)  all  other  questions  in  relation  thereto  that  would  aid  Congress 
in  any  necessary  remedial  legislation. 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  shall  report  to  the  House  (or  to  the 
Clerk  of  the  House  if  the  House  is  not  in  session)  the  results  of  any  such  investi- 
gation, together  witli  such  recommendations  as  it  deems  advisable. 

For  the  purpose  of  any  such  investigation,  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  or  any  subcommittee  thereof,  is  authorized  to  sit  and  act  at  such 
times  and  places  within  the  United  States,  whether  or  not  the  House  is  sitting, 
has  recessed,  or  has  adjourned,  to  hold  such  hearings.^  to  require  the  attendance 
of  such  witnesses  and  the  production  of  such  books,  papers,  and  documents,  and 
to  take  such  testimony,  as  it  deems  necessary.  Subpenas  may  be  issued  under 
the  signature  of  the  chairman  of  the  committee  or  any  subcommittee,  or  by  any 
member  designated  by  any  such  chairman,  and  may  be  served  by  any  person 
designated  by  any  such  chairman  or  member. 

V 


RULES  ADOPTED  BY  THE  83D  CONGRESS 
House  Resolution  5,  January  3, 1958 

*  1)1  :|c  :|c  4c  4<  * 

RtTLE  X 

STANDING  COMMITTEES 

1.  There  shall  be  elected  by  the  House,  at  the  commencement  of  each  Con- 
gress, the  following  standing  committees : 

•*  «  4:  *  *  4:  * 

(q)  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  to  consist  of  nine  members. 

:k  4c  4:  :{:  :{£  :)c  4: 

Rule  XI 

POWERS  AND  DUTIES  OF  COMMITTEES 


17.  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities. 

(a)  Un-American  activities. 

(b)  The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  as  a  whole  or  by  subcommittee, 
is  authorized  to  make  from  time  to  time,  investigations  of  (1)  the  extent,  char- 
acter, and  objects  of  un-American  propaganda  activities  in  the  United  States, 
(2)  the  diffusion  within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  un-American  prop- 
aganda that  is  instigated  from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic  origin  and 
attacks  the  principle  of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by  our  Constitu- 
tion, and  (3)  all  other  questions  in  relation  thereto  that  would  aid  Congress 
in  any  necessary  remedial  legislation. 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  shall  report  to  the  House  (or  to  the 
Clerk  of  the  House  if  the  House  is  not  in  session )  the  results  of  any  such  investi- 
gation, together  with  such  recommendations  as  it  det?ms  advisable. 

For  the  purpose  of  any  such  investigation,  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  or  any  subcommittee  thereof,  is  authorized  to  sit  and  act  at  such  times 
and  places  within  the  United  States,  whether  or  not  the  House  is  sitting,  has 
recessed,  or  has  adjourned,  to  hold  such  hearings,  to  require  the  attendance 
of  such  witnesses  and  the  production  of  such  books,  papers,  and  documents,  and 
to  take  such  testimony,  as  it  deems  necessary.  Subpenas  may  be  issued  under 
the  signature  of  the  chairman  of  the  committee  or  any  subcommittee,  or  by  any 
member  designated  by  such  chairman,  and  may  be  served  by  any  person  desig- 
nated by  any  such  chairman  or  member. 

VI 


INVESTIGATION  OF  COMMUNIST  ACTIVITIES  IN  THE 
STATE  OF  FLOKIDA— Part  2 


WEDNESDAY,   DECEMBER   1,    1954 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Miami,  Fla. 

PUBLIC  hearing 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  met,  pursuant  to  call, 
at  9 :  30  a.  m.,  in  the  main  courtroom,  Federal  Building,  Miami,  Fla., 
Hon.  Harold  H.  Velde,  chairman,  presiding. 

Connnittee  members  present :  Representatives  Harold  H.  Velde,  Kit 
Clardy,  Gordon  H.  Sclierer,  Clyde  Doyle. 

Staff  members  present:  Robert  L.  Kunzig,  counsel;  Thomas  W. 
Beale,  Sr.,  chief  clerk ;  Raphael  I.  Nixon,  director  of  research ;  Earl 
Fuoss,  investigator ;  W.  Jackson  Jones,  investigator. 

Mr.  Velde.  The  committee  will  be  in  order.  Let  the  record  show 
that  I  have  appointed  a  subcommittee  consisting  of  Mr.  Scherer,  Mr. 
Clardy,  Mr.  Doyle  and  myself  for  the  purpose  of  this  hearing.  Wlio 
is  the  next  witness,  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Mr.  Mariano  Rodriguez. 

Mr.  Velde.  Stand  and  be  sworn,  please.  In  the  testimony  you  are 
about  to  give  before  this  committee,  do  you  solemnly  swear  you  will 
tell  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help 
you  God  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez,  I  do. 

Mr.  Velde.  Be  seated. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Would  you  state  your  full  name,  please  ? 

TESTIMONY  OF  MARIANO  RODEIGUEZ,  ACCOMPANIED  BY 
QUENTIN  T.  ELDRED,  HIS  COUNSEL 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Mariano  Rodriguez. 

Mr.  Kunzig,  Would  you  give  us  your  present  address,  please. 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Here  or  in  Tampa? 

Mr,  Kunzig,  Your  home  where  you  live, 

Mr,  Rodriguez,  2020  Twelfth  Avenue,  Tampa,  Fla. 

Mr,  Kunzig,  I  see  you  are  represented  by  counsel.  Would  counsel 
please  state  his  name  and  address  for  the  record. 

Mr.  Eldred.  Quentin  T.  Eldred,  517  Security  Building, 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Would  you  give  the  coijimittee  a  brief  background  of 
your  education  and  tell  us  about  your  schooling. 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  will  say  junior  high  school  during  the  day  time; 
and  I  studied  at  nighttime  after  work. 

7405 


7406        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  KuNziG.  How  far  did  you  go  in  school  ?    How  many  years? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  During  the  day  ? 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Your  complete  schooling;  was  it  9  or  12  years? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Nine  or  ten  years. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Where  were  you  born,  sir? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Tampa,  Fla. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Give  us  a  brief  resume,  please,  of  your  employment 
background;  where  you  worked  T  mean. 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Mainly  in  cigar  factories. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  cigar  factory? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  worked  in  a  factory  for  about  16  years,  to  the 
best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  was  the  name  of  the  factory  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Courall  Wodiska  &  Co. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Is  that  where  you  work  now  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez,  No,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG,  You  worked  there  how  many  years? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Fourteen  or  fifteen  years. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Then  where  did  you  work? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Then  I  worked  in  the  shipyards. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  "\'Vliere? 

Mr.  RoRiGUEz.  In  Tampa. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  type  of  work  did  you  do  there  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Helper,  shipfitter  helper. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  After  you  worked  there  what  was  your  next 
employment  ? 

Mr.  RoDRiGui:z.  All  this  time  all  different  cigar  factories  during  the 
day  and  at  nighttime  I  went  to  school  there. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  type  of  school  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  It  was  a  kind  of  private  school ;  and  thei-e  I  learned 
some  kind  of  bookkeeping.  So.  when  I  left  the  shipyard  I  was  em- 
ployed as  a  bookkeeper  in  a  cigar  factory. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  cigar  factory  employed  you  as  a  bookkeeper? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Pedro  Perez. 

Mr,  KuNziG.  How  long  did  you  work  there? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  think  3  or  4  years. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Continue. 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Then  I  worked  at  this  factory  again,  Courall 
Wodiska,  making  cigars. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  And  that  is  where  you  worked  to  now  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  That  is  where  I  worked  to  now. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Mr.  Rodriguez,  as  you  know  you  have  been  named 
before  this  committee  as  having  been  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party.  We  want  everyone  to  have  an  opportunity  to  speak  in  his  own 
behalf;  and  an  opportunity  to  tell  the  committee  whether  that  is  true 
or  not-  Now,  I  ask  you :  Have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  my  constitu- 
tional rights. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  On  the  grounds  of  the  fifth  amencbnent,  you  mean  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Yes,  sir. 

jNIr.  Kunzig.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7407 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Do  you  know  Jose  Ta.margo  who  testified  here  yes- 
terday ? 

Mr.  EoDRiGUEZ.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Do  you  know  Edwin  Waller  who  testified  here  the 
day  before  yesterday? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Were  you  present  in  the  courtroom  here  when  those 
men  testified  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Yes,  sir. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Rodriguez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Did  you  hear  Edwin  Waller  identify  you  as  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Rodriguez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Is  that  identification  a  correct  identification? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer ;  same  grounds, 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  hear  Jose  Tamargo  identify  you  as  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  i-efuse  to  answer  that  question. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Rodriguez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  SciiEREK.  Just  a  minute.  I  can't  possibly  see  how  answering 
that  last  question  will  incriminate  this  witness;  the  fact  that  he  heard 
someone  in  this  hearing  room  identify  him  as  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party ;  and  Mr.  Chairman,  I  ask  that  the  witness  be  directed 
to  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  Velde.  You  are  directed  to  answer  the  question,  Mr.  Rodriguez. 

Mr.  Eldred.  The  witness  answered  the  question  when  he  was  asked 
if  he  was  present  when  the  witness  testified,  that  he  was  present.  Now, 
it  would  seem  logical  that  the  answer  to  the  following  question  would 
be  known  to  the  committee  since  he  was  present.  If  we  are  going  to 
inquire  beyond  that  point,  we  may  be  opening  the  line  of  interrogiition. 

Mr.  Ku'nzig.  I  would  disagree  with  counsel  there.  The  question  as 
I  recall  it  was  :  "Did  you  hear  Jose  Tamargo  identify  you  as  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party  ?'•  He  might  have  been  in  the  courtroom  and 
not  have  heard  it.  He  has  refused  to  answer.  INIr.  Scherer  requested 
that  he  answer ;  and  I  also  request  that  he  be  directed  to  answer. 

Mr.  Eldred.  Will  you  please  put  the  question  which  is  to  be  an- 
swered to  the  witness  again. 

Mr.  Scherer.  I  think  we  should  follow  the  rule  with  reference  to 
counsel  making  any  argument  to  the  committee.  I  realize  this  counsel 
has  been  appointed  by  the  bar  association,  but  that  doesn't  increase  his 
rights. 

Mr.  Velde.  I  concur  with  you  there,  sir    We  do  appreciate  that 
you  are  here  to  ably  counsel  the  witness;  but  I  do  have  to  maintain 
the  rules  we  operate  under ;  and  those  rules  provide  that  counsel  only 
has  the  right  to  confer  with  his  client  and  to  give  him  advice. 
Mr.  Eldred.  I  am  sorry,  Mr.  Velde. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  will  put  the  two  questions  again.    Mr.  Rodriguez, 
were  you  present  in  the  courtroom  Avhen  Jose  Tamargo  testified. 
Mr.  Rodriguez.  Yes,  sir. 

(At  this  point  ]\Ir.  Rodriguez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 
Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  hear  Jose  Tamargo  identify  you  as  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

55634 — 55 — pt.  2 2 


7408        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  hear  part  of  it. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Rodriguez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Was  his  identification  of  you  as  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  correct  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Rodriguez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  KuNziG.  On  the  same  grounds  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  On  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mr.  Rodriguez,  I  am  reading  now  directly  from  the 
testimony  given  yesterday  by  Mr,  Tamargo.  Mr.  Tamargo  was 
asked  by  me :  "And  you  paid  the  dues  and  got  the  card,  and  then  you 
became  a  member r'  His  answer:  "That's  right."  "To  whom  did 
you  pay  the  dues?"  His  answer:  "I  paid  the  dues  to  different  in- 
dividuals there."  "To  which  ones?"  His  answer:  "Alfredo  Rodri- 
guez, Mariano  Rodriguez,  Frank  Fernandez  *  *  *."  I  ask  you  now, 
did  you  take  dues  from  Jose  Tamargo  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez,  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds, 

Mr,  KuNziG.  Was  it  customary  for  you  to  collect  dues  from  the 
Communist  Party  members  ? 

Mr,  Rodriguez,  I  refuse  to  answer.     Same  grounds. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  "Wliat  did  you  do  with  the  money  that  was  given  to 
you  by  people  to  pay  dues  for  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr,  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr,  Kunzig.  This  committee  would  be  interested  in  knowing  what 
that  money  was  used  for.  What  was  the  money  used  for  that  you 
collected  for  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Was  the  money  used  in  any  way  to  further  the  over- 
throw of  this  Government  by  force  and  violence  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez,  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  same 
grounds, 

Mr,  Kunzig.  Are  you  in  favor  of  the  overthrow  of  this  Govern- 
ment by  force  and  violence  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  What  is  the  question,  sir? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Rodriguez  conferred  with  Mr,  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Are  you  in  favor  of  the  overthrow  of  this  Government 
by  force  and  violence  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Then  are  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party 
which  is  in  favor  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer;  same  grounds,  sir. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  I  thought  so,  sir.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  no  further 
questions  of  this  witness.     It  is  obvious  he  is  not  going  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Are  you  connected,  however  remotely,  in  any  way 
with  the  Communist  Party  or  any  of  its  active  fronts? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  my  constitu- 
tional rights. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Do  I  understand  correctly  that  you  were  born  in 
Tampa ;  a  native-born  American  citizen  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  have  lived  in  the  Florida  area  all  your  life  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez,  Almost  all  my  life. 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7409 

Mr.  Clardy.  I  didn't  hear  you  clearly.  Have  you  resided  any- 
where else. 

Mr.  KoDRiGUEz.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Have  you  ever  attended  anything  in  the  nature  of  a 
Communist  school  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same 
grounds. 

Mr,  Clardy.  I  didn't  catch  what  your  present  occupation  is.  What 
are  you  doing  at  the  moment  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  manufacture  cigars.     I  make  cigars. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  own  the  business  yourself? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  No  ;  I  work  for  somebody.    I  am  a  wage  earner. 

Mr,  Clardy,  That  is  all  I  have,  Mr,  Chairman, 

Mr,  ScHERER.  What  union  do  you  now  belong  to  ? 

Mr,  Rodriguez,  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Velde.  You  are  directed  to  answer  the  question.  There  is 
nothing  wrong  with  that. 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question,  sir,  on  my  consti- 
tutional grounds. 

(At  this  point  Mr,  Rodriguez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  ScHERER,  Do  you  belong  to  a  union  ? 

Mr,  Rodriguez,  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question,  sir. 

Mr.  Sciierer,  I  ask  that  the  witness  be  directed  to  answer  the 
question, 

Mr.  Velde.  You  are  directed  to  answer  the  question,  Mr.  Witness. 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Yes;  I  belong  to  a  union. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Rodriquez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr,  Scherer.  Wliat  union  do  you  belong  to? 

Mr,  Rodriguez,  The  cigar-makers'  union, 

Mr,  Scherer,  And  have  you  ever  been  an  officer  of  that  union  or 
any  other  union? 

Mr,  Rodriguez.  Yes,  sir;  I  was  an  officer. 

Mr.  Scherer.  TVliat  office  did  you  hold  in  the  union  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  was  secretary  of  the  union. 

Mr.  Scherer.  When  were  you  secretary  of  the  union,  approxi- 
mately ? 

Mr,  Rodriguez,  I  think  it  was  in  1939, 

Mr,  Scherer,  Have  you  held  any  other  office  with  the  union  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Well,  I  was  temporary  chairman. 

Mr.  Scherer,  Is  that  all  ?    Are  those  all  the  offices  you  held  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  That  is  right,  sir. 

Mr,  Scherer.  While  you  were  an  officer  of  the  union  were  you  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr,  Rodriguez,  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question,  sir, 

Mr,  Scherer,  Did  the  Communist  Party  ever  give  you  any  instruc- 
tions with  reference  to  activities  of  the  union  ? 

Mr,  Rodriguez,  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question,  sir, 

Mr,  Scherer,  If  you  were  not  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party, 
would  you  so  state? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Scherer.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Velde,  Mr,  Doyle? 


7410        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  noticed  when  counsel  asked  you  whether  or  not  you 
heard  the  testimony  of  the  witness  who  identified  you  as  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party  yesterday,  you  replied,  "Part  of  it."  I 
couldn't  tell  from  that  answer  what  part  of  the  identifying  testimony 
of  the  witness  identifying  you,  j^ou  had  heard.  Did  you  hear  that 
part  of  the  testimony  in  which  he  identified  you  as  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Yes,  sir. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Rodriquez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  DoYUE.  Was  his  identification  of  you  correct? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Was  he  telling  the  truth  when  he  identified  you  as  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  In  answering  the  question  of  one  of  my  colleagues  as 
to  whether  or  not  you  were  a  member  of  a  union,  you  gave  the  name 
of  the  cigarmakers  union.     Do  you  i-emember  that? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  And  when  you  were  asked  if  you  were  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  you  claimed  the  privilege  of  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  haven't  asked  the  question  yet. 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Excuse  uie.    I  am  hard  of  hearing. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  recognize  that  you  are  ready  to  plead  the  amendment 
but  don't  do  it  before  I  ask  you  the  question  please. 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  beg  your  pardon. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Why  did  you  state  with  some  pride  tliat  you  were  a 
member  of  tlie  cigarmakers  union  and  refuse  to  answer  the  question 
on  whetlier  or  not  you  were  a  member  of  the  Commmiist  Party?  Is 
there  a  difference? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  i-ef  use  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  is  the  difference  between  the  function  of  your 
union  and  that  of  the  Counnunist  Party?  Why  did  you  ])lead  tlie 
fifth  amendment  on  the  Communist  Party  but  not  on  your  union  ^ 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  tliat  question,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  know  there  is  a  great  difference.  I  think  you,  with  a 
great  deal  of  pride,  clarified  the  difference.  T  hope  you  don't  want 
the  union  tied  up  with  the  (^omnnmist  Party  in  any  way.  Of  course, 
we  have  evidence  to  the  fact  that  many'  of  you  in  the  union  are  also 
leaders  in  the  Communist  Party.  That  is  one  of  the  games  of  thi}- 
Communist  Party,  to  get  the  union  leaders  more  loyal  to  the  Com- 
munist Party  than  to  the  union.  The  purpose  of  this  question — and 
I  am  assuming  that  you  are  interested  in  uncovering  any  subversive 
act  or  intent  in  the  Florida  area  by  any  person  or  any  group  of  per- 
sons— Do  you  know  of  any  activities  by  the  Communist  Party  in 
Florida? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  At  the  time  you  were  an  officer  in  the  cigarmakers 
union  did  you  observe  any  activities  of  the  Communists  in  the  union 
toward  trying  to  control  it  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Are  you  now  an  officer  of  that  union  ? 

INIr.  Rodriguez.  No,  sir. 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7411 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Rodriguez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  How  long  is  it  since  you  have  been  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Oh,  since  1939, 1  tliink ;  1938  or  1939. 

Mr.  Doyle.  How  long  is  it  since  you  have  been  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  in  Florida? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  (fuestion,  sir. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Rodriguez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  think  that  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Velde.  Mr.  Rodriguez,  have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the 
armed  services? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Velde.  In  the  event  of  a  shooting  war,  if  the  United  States 
was  on  one  side  and  Soviet  Russia  on  the  other,  would  you  fight  for 
the  United  States  or  Soviet  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  Well,  I  would  fight  for  my  country. 

(At  this  point  Mv.  Rodriguez  conferred  with  Mv.  Eldred.) 

]\Ir.  Velde.  Your  country  is  the  United  States  of  America? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  My  country  is  my  country.  I  will  tight  to  keep  it 
right.     If  it  is  wrong,  to  put  it  right. 

Mr.  ClxVRdy.  How  is  that? 

Mr.  Rodrigitez.  I  will  fight  for  my  country. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  said  something  about  wrong  and  right.  I  didn't 
get  that. 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  If  it  is  wrong  to  put  it  right ;  and  if  it  is  right,  I  will 
fight  for  my  country. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  will  fight  for  your  country,  right  or  wrong. 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  will  fight  for  my  country. 

Mr.  Velde.  Apparently  you  are  not  answering  questions  telling  of 
your  past  communistic  activities. 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Do  you  consider  the  Connnunist  Party  and  the  actions 
of  the  Communist  Pai'ty  to  be  right,  as  you  just  said,  to  keep  it  right; 
to  keep  things  right  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Rodriquez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

JMr.  KuNZiG.  Were  you  ever  expelled  from  your  union  for  Com- 
munist activities  ? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question,  sir. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Rodriguez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Mr.  Rodriguez,  isn't  it  a  fact  that  you  were  expelled 
from  the  union  for  Communist  activities  and  later  reinstated? 

Mr.  Rodriguez.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Vlede.  The  witness  will  be  excused.  Call  the  next  witness, 
Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Mr.  Joseph  Soloman. 

Mr.  Velde.  Will  you  raise  your  right  hand,  [)lease.  In  the  testi- 
mony you  are  about  to  give  before  this  subcommittee,  do  you  solemnly 
swear  to  tell  the  truth,  the  whole  trath,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so 
help  you  God? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  do. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Would  you  state  your  name,  please. 


7412        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF   FLORIDA 

TESTIMONY  OF  JOSEPH  SOLOMAN 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  Joseph  Soloman. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  is  your  address,  please,  Mr.  Soloman? 

Mr.  Soloman.  817  Meridian  Avenue,  Miami  Beach. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  note  that  you  are  not  accompanied  by  counsel,  Mr. 
Soloman.  Everybody  has  the  right  of  counsel.  Do  you  desire  to 
testify  without  counsel  ? 

Mr.  SoLoaiAN.  To  be  honest,  in  observing  the  last  few  days  counsel 
can  do  very  little  and  I  can't  afford  it. 

Mr.  Clardy.  I  want  to  put  you  straight  about  what  counsel  can 
do  here.  Counsel  has  the  right  to  advise  you  constantly  of  your  rights. 
lie  sits  right  there  at  your  side  and  advises  you  which  is  actually  not 
permitted  in  a  court  of  law.  Actually,  you  have  more  rights  than  in  a 
court  of  law.  He  can  even  put  words  right  in  your  ear  and  you  can 
be  advised  on  every  question  as  to  your  legal  and  constitutional  rights. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Will  you  testify  without  counsel  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  am  sure  the  committee  won't  let  me  go  astray. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Go  astray  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  I  mean  on  my  constitutional  rights  the  committee 
won't  let  me  go  astray. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Wliat  is  your  present  occupation  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  Tailor. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  ^^lere  is  your  tailor  shop  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  317  23d  Street,  Miami  Beach. 

Mr.  KuNziG,  Where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Soloman  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  Ukraine.    You  can  call  it  Russia;  part  of  Russia. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  That  was  part  of  Russia  when  you  were  born? 

Mr.  Soloman.  Yes. 

Mr.  Clardy.  It  is  that  part  of  Russia  called  White  Russia? 

Mr.  Soloman.  I  don't  think  so. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  When  did  you  come  to  this  counti*y,  Mr.  Soloman  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  In  1913. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Are  you  today  a  citizen  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Wlien  did  you  become  a  citizen? 

]\Ir.  SoL03iAN.  November  1938. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  You  were  not  a  citizen  from  1913  to  1938? 

Mr.  Soloman.  No. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Where  did  you  become  a  citizen  in  1938  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  In  Massachusetts ;  Boston. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  Miami  or  this  area? 

Mr.  Soloman.  Since  1942. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Have  you  been  in  the  tailoring  business  the  entire 
time? 

Mr.  Soloman.  All  the  time. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Give  me  a  brief  resume  of  your  education  or  schooling. 

Mr.  Soloman.  I  come  here  in  1913.  I  was  a  young  fellow,  maybe  18. 
I  didn't  have  the  opportunity  to  get  a  high  education.  I  had  to  go  to 
work  immediately. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Did  you  go  to  school  in  Russia  at  all  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  No,  I'm  sorry.  We  were  under  the  Czar  and  there 
was  not  much  opportunity  to  go  to  school.    I  had  to  go  to  work  and  1 


COMMUlSriST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF   FLORIDA       7413 

had  some  niglit  school ;  but  at  nights  I  cannot  go  much.  In  our  busi- 
ness the  work  comes  seasonal  when  we  have  to  work  nights. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Did  I  understand  you  correctly  to  say  that  under  the 
Czar  you  had  little  opportunity  for  schooling  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Do  you  think  that  condition  has  improved  over 
there? 

]Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  haven't  lived  under  the  condition  now.  I  don't 
know. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  You  say  you  have  no  knowledge,  then,  of  present 
conditions  ? 

Mr.   SoLOMAN.   No. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Then  you  don't  mean  to  draw  any  comparisons  by 
your  answer? 

Mr.  SoLOMAx.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Clardy.  When  were  you  born  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  1895. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  left  there  in  what  year  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  1913. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Then  you  left  before  the  revolution  by  some  4  years? 

JNIr.  SoLOMAN.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  never  lived  under  the  Soviet  regime  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  Xo,  sir. 

Mr.  Clardy..  You  have  no  comparison  of  how  Russia  existed  when 
you  lived  there  and  how  it  exists  now? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  Specifically  not. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Mr.  Soloman,  you  appeared  before  this  committee  or 
.a  subcommittee  of  this  committee  in  Miami,  Fla.,  on  March  3,  1948, 
Is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Soloman.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  KuNzTG.  You  were  sworn  in  and  testified  at  that  time? 

]Mr.  Soloman.  That  is  correct.        * 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  testified  at  an  executive  session  at  that  time  which 
was  not  made  public? 

Mr,  Soloman.  That  is  correct. 

Mr,  KuNziG.  Let  me  ask  you  if  you  have  ever  been  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  I  would  like  to  invoke  the  fifth  amendment,  because 
the  answer  might  tend  to  incriminate  me, 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  ground. 

Mr.  KuNziG,  Let  me  ask  you  this,  Mr.  Soloman.  This  is  most  in- 
teresting, T  think.  On  March  3,  1948,  you  were  asked  by  this  com- 
mittee :  "Mr,  Soloman,  have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the  Commu- 
nist Party  in  the  United  States?"  And  you  said  "No."  "Why  have 
you  changed  your  answer  today  ? 

Mr,  Soloman.  I  won't  answer  on  the  same  ground. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Were  you  telling  the  truth  when  you  said  under 
oath,  "No,"  you  were  not  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr,  Soloman.  I  won't  answer  on  the  same  ground. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Let  us  tie  it  down  to  the  exact  date  you  were  asked 
the  question,  March  3,  1948,  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  on  March  3,  1948,  when  you  appeared  before  the  subcommittee 
of  this  committee  ? 


7414        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIEkS    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  SoLOMAx.  I  won't  answer  on  the  same  groimd. 

]\Ir.  KuNziG.  Have  you  joined  the  Communist  Party  since  1948? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  will  not  answer  on  the  same  crround,  sir. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  I  was  not  paying  attention.  Does  he  refuse  to  an- 
swer your  question  as  to  whether  or  not  he  has  ever  been  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  KuNziG.  That  is  correct,  sir.    He  refuses  to  answer. 

Mr.  Velde.  In  1048  he  denied  he  was  a  member  of  the  Comnumist 
Party  at  that  time  or  at  any  time  before  that. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  The  question  was  specifically  asked,  "Have  you  ever 
been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party?"    And  he  said,  "No." 

Mr.  Clardy,  You  indicated  earlier  that  you  recall  appearing  before 
the  committee  in  1948.  You  now  recall  this  specific  testimony,  do  you 
not? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  certainly  do. 

Mr.  Ci^ARDY.  You  recall  specifically  that  you  made  the  answer  to 
the  question  that  has  been  propounded  to  you  now? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  T  do. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Now,  having  said  in  1948  that  you  were  not  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party,  it  obviously  leaves  tw^o  conclusions  that  we 
can  reach :  either  you  were  not  telling  the  truth  at  that  time  or  yon 
were  telling  the  truth  and  something  happened  since  that  date.  T  want 
to  ask  you  this  question:  Has  anything  happened  with  your  relations 
with  the  Communist  Party  since  you  testified  before  this  committee 
in  1948  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  I  won't  answer  on  the  same  ground. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Are  you  acquainted  with  the  fact  that  in  1948  other 
witnesses  appeared  before  this  committee  in  connection  with  a  general 
investigation  ? 

Mv.  SoLOMAiSr.  I  won't  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Have  you  talkecl  with  any  other  witness  who  appeared 
in  1948  before  this  committee? 

Mr.  Solo :m AN.  I  won't  answer, 

Mr.  ScHERER.  When  did  you  say  you  were  naturalized? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  November  1938. 

Mr.  SciiERER.  Were  you  asked  at  the  time  you  were  natui'alized 
whether  or  not  you  were  a  member  of  the  Comnumist  Party? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  really  don't  remember. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  However,  if  you  were  asked,  what  would  have  been 
your  answer? 

INIr.  SoLOMAN.  I  can't  answer  that.  1  don't  think  I  can  answer  that. 
They  didn't  ask  me.  How  would  T  know  what  I  would  say.  It  would 
be  impossible. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  won't  answer  on  the  same  ground. 

Mr.  SciiERER.  You  have  no  recollection  of  whether  you  were  asked 
at  that  time  whether  you  were  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  No,  sir. 

INIr.  SciiERER.  Or  whether  you  were  a  member  of  any  organization 
dedicated  to  the  overthrowing  of  this  Government? 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7415 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  really  don't  remember.  I  went  through  plenty 
since  then.  I  had  a  boy  killed  in  the  last  war.  I  had  a  young  kid  who 
died  in  Germany.  He  knew  what  he  ^\  as  fighting  for.  He  was  fight- 
ing for  this  country  and  the  eliminating  of  the  Jews  by  Hitler  at 
that  time. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Did  you  ever  join  the  Armed  Forces? 

M.  SoLOMAN.  No ;  but  I  tried  to  join  the  Navy  but  I  was  refused 
on  account  of  my  teeth.  I  wanted  to  do  what  the  boy  was  doing ;  to 
fight  at  that  time  too. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  You  were  primarily  interested  in  the  fight  against 
the  Nazis,  were  you  not  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  No,  sir;  this  country  comes  first — I  mean  fighting 
against  the  Nazis.     I  didn't  realize  what  I  said. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  When  did  you  try  to  join  the  Navy? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  Actually,  right  at  the  beginning  of  the  war  when  my 
boy  was  called  into  the  service.  I  don't  remember  the  elate.  I  felt  I 
wanted  to  join  with  him.  I  was  too  old  for  the  Army.  I  went  to  join 
the  Navy  because  I  was  told  they  wanted  older  men. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  That  was  before  the  Hitler-Stalin  pact. 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  don't  know  anything  about  that,  sir. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  In  view  of  the  testimony  of  this  witness,  Mr.  Chair- 
man, I  think  this  is  a  matter  for  the  executive  session  of  this  com- 
mittee to  determine  whether  or  not  proceedings  should  be  started  to 
denaturalize  in  this  case. 

Mr.  Velde.  The  Chair  concurs  and  the  matter  will  be  taken  up  at 
the  executive  session. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  say  you  tried  to  join  the  Navy.  Were  you  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party  when  you  tried  to  join  the  Navy? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  were  asked  in  1948  if  you  made  application  to 
join  the  Communist  Party.  Let  me  ask  you  that  question  now.  Have 
you  ever  made  application  to  join  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  same  ground. 

Mr,  KuNziG.  AYlien  you  were  asked  in  1948  you  said,  "No" ;  a  clear, 
unequivocal  "No."  But  your  answer  to  the  question  today  is  that 
you  refuse  to  answer  on  the  ground  it  may  incriminate  you  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  That  is  correct. 

Mr,  KuNziG.  Were  you  in  the  courtroom  when  Mr.  Waller  testified 
here  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  was. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  hear  Mr.  Waller  identify  you  as  having  been 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  did. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Was  he  correct  in  his  identification  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  ground. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  asked  Mr.  Waller  who  else  was  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  and  he  said,  "Joe  Soloman."  I  asked  him  to  de- 
scribe Joe  Soloman  further  and  he  said,  "Joe  was  rather  a  slim-built 
guy  pushing  his  sixties.  What  his  occupation  was,  I  don't  know. 
But  I  attended  closed  Communist  Party  meetings  with  him,  sir," 
Did  you  ever  attend  closed  Communist  Party  meetings  with  Mr, 
Waller? 

55634— 55— pt.  2— — 3 


7416        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Isn't  it  a  fact  that  you  knew  Mr.  Waller  very  well 
and  that  you  did  go  to  the  Communist  Party  meetings  with  him  and 
were  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Are  you  in  favor  of  Communist  control  of  the  Gov- 
ernment here  in  America  instead  of  the  form  of  government  we  have  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Do  you  think  your  life  is  better  here  than  if  you  are 
sent  back  to  Russia,  which  is  a  possibility  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Clardt.  Coming  back  to  your  prior  testimony  again  briefly, 
at  that  time  I  gather  from  the  record  that  you  didn't  even  hesitate  for 
a  second  to  deny  any  connection  with  the  Communist  Party.  You 
admit  you  recall  that  fact,  and  you  answered  as  I  have  just  indicated. 
Now,  are  we  going  to  find  you  after  a  period  of  time  is  over  issuing 
statements  to  the  press  or  getting  into  the  public  attention  someway 
and  saying  that  you  didn't  have  an  opportunity  to  deny  the  things 
that  have  been  said  here  by  Mr.  Waller  and  the  other  witnesses  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  a  great  many  people  refuse  to  answer  before  the  com- 
mittee but  become  very  voluminous  when  they  are  not  under  oath.  I 
am  wondering  if  you  are  going  to  be  one  of  those  who,  after  you  are 
released  from  the  oath  of  the  committee,  will  give  the  answers  to  the 
questions  you  now  refuse  to  answer.  What  can  I  expect  in  that 
connection  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  volunteered  the  information  to  start  with  that 
the  educational  facilities  were  not  all  you  would  like  under  Czarist 
Russia.    You  were  about  18  when  you  left  there? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  Eighteen ;  maybe  eighteen  and  a  half. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  did  attend  some  school  during  that  time  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  In  this  country. 

Mr.  Clardy.  None  in  Russia  ? 

M.  SoLOMAN.  No ;  in  the  Jewish  school. 

Mr.  Clardy.  No  other  school  other  than  the  Jewish  school  in 
Russia  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Were  you  at  any  time  subject  to  military  service  be- 
fore you  left  there  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Clardy.  There  was  no  draft  or  any  sort  of  military  training 
before  you  left? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Wasn't  there  some  kind  of  requirement  for  military 
service  in  Russia  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN,  Twenty-one  years,  I  think. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Only  after  you  reached  the  age  of  21,  is  your  under- 
standing ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  That  is  my  understanding. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  never  served  in  the  Russian  Czarist  Army  or 
had  any  military  training  wliile  you  were  there  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  No,  sir. 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN   THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7417 

Mr.  Clardy.  Have  you  attended  any  Communist  school  of  any 
kind  while  in  America  ? 

Mr,  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Have  you  attended  a  Communist  school  devoted  to 
instructions  of  how  to  sabotage  and  disrupt  American  production  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Do  you  know  that  the  Communists  conduct  such  a 
school  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  say  you  didn't  know  anything  about  the  Hitler- 
Stalin  Pact? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.   (Witness  does  not  answer.) 

Mr.  Clardy.  Is  that  a  fact  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  Just  what  I  read  in  the  papers. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  read  in  the  papers  that  for  awhile  they  were 
traveling  down  the  same  road,  did  you  not  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  read  in  the  papers  what  everybody  knows  about. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Since  that  time  have  you  studied  Communist  literature 
of  any  kind  dealing  with  that  subject? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Do  you  subscribe  to  a  Communist  newspajjer  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Do  you  presently  have  here  or  at  home  any  Commu- 
nist literature  of  any  kind  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Have  you  received  any  document  in  the  past  6  months 
or  so  called  the  American  Way  of  Peace,  and  so  forth  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  won't  be  incriminated.  Tliey  send  that  to  every- 
body ;  even  the  members  of  the  committee. 

Mr.  Soloman.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  never  heard  of  it  ? 

Mr.  Soloman.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  No  further  questions. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  volunteered  the  fact  that  your  own  boy  was  killed 
in  the  last  war.  There  are  over  400  Members  in  the  House  of  Repre- 
sentatives and  some  of  those  men  lost  their  sons  in  the  last  war,  too. 
Under  Public  Law  601,  it  is  part  of  our  responsibility  to  the  American 
people  and  Congress  to  study  and  find  out  not  only  the  extent  or  the 
nature  of  the  subversive  activities  in  the  United  States  of  the  Commu- 
nist Party  or  any  other  group  of  persons ;  but  to  go  into  the  realm  of 
recommendations  for  legislation  dealing  with  subversive  activities  of 
the  Communist  Party  or  any  other  group.  I  am  asking  you  this 
question  and  I  am  quite  aware  that  you  are  taking  refuge  behind  the 
fifth  amendment  in  refusing  to  answer  questions  today  and  the  fact 
that  in  1948  you  testified  you  were  not  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party.  I  am  going  to  ask  you  this — and  we  have  not  met  before — 
have  you  any  recommendation  to  the  United  States  Congress  so  far  as 
legislation  is  concerned  in  the  field  of  subversive  activities? 

Mr.  Soloman.  Not  at  this  time. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Will  we  be  able  to  get  the  benefit  of  your  recommenda- 
tion later? 

Mr.  Soloman.  I  hope  so.    I  have  no  objection. 


7418        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  invite  you  to  send  to  us  your  recommendations. 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  could  send  it  through  the  representative  of  my 
district;  my  Congressman  or  Senator. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Will  you  do  that  and  say  Congressman  Doyle  invited 
you  to  send  your  recommendations  through  your  Congressman  of  any 
legislation  you  may  have  in  the  field  of  subversive  activities?  Will 
you  accept  my  invitation  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  Sure  will. 

Mr.  Velde.  I  don't  want  to  disagree  with  my  friend  from  Cali- 
fornia, but  I  doubt  that  he  will.  Did  you  belong  to  any  youth  or- 
ganizations of  any  kind  while  you  were  in  Soviet  Russia  ? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Velde.  Did  you  attend  a  church? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  The  Jewish  church ;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Velde.  No  one  with  any  organization  connected  whatsoever? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Velde.  I  take  it  that  you  are  going  to  refuse  to  give  us  any 
information  whatsoever  as  a  committee  of  the  Congress  of  the  United 
States.  Is  that  true  ?  You  are  going  to  refuse  to  give  any  informa- 
tion whatsoever? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer  all  the  questions  you  asked  to  now. 
Ask  me  more,  and  I  will  see. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Congressman  Doyle  talked  about  the  recommendation 
for  legislation.  I  wonder  if  you  joined  any  Communist  petition  ask- 
ing for  this  committee  to  be  abolished? 

Mr.  SoLOMAN.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  asked  for  the  witness's  recommendation;  and,  of 
course,  I  think  you  gentlemen  know  that  during  the  8  years  I  have 
been  in  Congress  I  have  always  sought  the  opinions  of  men. 

Mr.  Clardy.  I  don't  think  the  chairman  said  he  wouldn't  recom- 
mend it.    He  said  he  doesn't  see  much  possibility  of  getting  it. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  asked  this  man  to  send  in  his  recommendation^  in 
good  faith  through  his  own  Congressman ;  and  I  think  it  is  very  im- 
portant that  I,  as  a  member  of  this  committee,  know  the  ideas  of  this 
man. 

Mr.  Clardy.  We  might  ask  him  the  question  if  he  expects  to  make 
any  recommendations  to  the  district  attorney  on  efforts  to  uncover 
communism. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  I  rather  suspect,  gentlemen,  you  would  get  no  reply. 
It  might  incriminate  him. 

Mr.  Velde.  Anything  else  from  this  witness? 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Nothing  further. 

Mr.  Velde.  The  witness  is  excused.  Wlio  is  your  next  witness,  Mr. 
Counsel  ? 

Mr.  KuxziG.  Frank  Fernandez. 

Mr.  Velde.  Would  you  raise  your  right  hand,  please,  and  be  sworn  ? 
In  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  before  this  subcommittee,  do 
you  solemnly  swear  to  tell  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but 
the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  do. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  State  your  full  name,  please,  sir. 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7419 

TESTIMONY  OE  FEANK  FERNANDEZ,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  QUENTIN 

T.  ELDRED,  HIS  COUNSEL 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Frank  Fernandez. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  What  is  your  address  i 

Mr.  Fernandez.  1516  East  Columbus  Di-ive. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  TV^iere  is  that? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  That  is  in  Tampa. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  I  see  you  are  accompanied  by  counsel.  Would  coun- 
sel once  again  state  his  name  and  address  for  the  record  'i 

Mr.  Eldred.  Quentin  T.  Eldred,  517  Security  Building. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Fernandez  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  In  Cuba. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  When  did  you  come  to  this  country  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  As  my  father  and  mother  told  me,  I  came  when  I 
was  about  4  years  okl. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  When  did  you  become  a  citizen? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  will  say  in  1941  or  1942.    I'm  not  sure. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  1941  or  1942.    Where  did  you  become  a  citizen  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  In  Tampa. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  You  are  a  naturalized  citizen? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Where  did  you  go  to  scliool,  JNIr.  Fernandez? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Grammar  school. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Where? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Tampa. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Is  that  the  total  schooling  you  have  had ;  6  years  of 
school  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  am  not  sure.  I  am  not  very  sure.  Maybe  6  or  7. 
Something  like  that. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Where  have  you  worked  ?  Tell,  us  the  main  places  you 
have  worked,  Mr.  Fernandez. 

Mr.  Fernandez,  I  worked  in  the  Regensburgh  factory. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  How  long  did  you  work  there  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  More  or  less  about  17  years. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  What  sort  of  work  did  you  do  there,  Mr.  Fernandez  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez,  I  make  cigars. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Are  you  a  member  of  a  union  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Yes,  sir. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Kunzig.  What  union  are  you  n  member  of? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  American  Federation  of  Labor. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  vrith  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Kunzig.  What  union  I     Wliat  is  the  name  of  the  local  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Cigar  makers  union. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Do  they  have  a  number  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  What  is  it  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Five  hundred. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  grounds  that  my  answer 
may  tend  to  incriminate  me.  I  invoke  the  constitutional  privilege 
under  the  fifth  amendment. 


7420        COMMUNIST    ACTWITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  same  ground. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Were  you  present  in  the  courtroom  when  Jose  Ta- 
margo  testified? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Yes,  yes. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  hear  Jose  Tamargo  identify  you  as  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  heard  him. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Was  that  identification  of  you  as  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  correct? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mr.  Tamargo,  Mr.  Fernandez,  testified  he  paid  dues 
to  various  individuals  and  as  read  a  few  moments  ago  in  the  case  of 
Mr.  Kodriguez,  he  testified  he  paid  dues  to  one  Frank  Fernandez. 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  I  haven't  asked  you  yet. 

Did  you  collect  Communist  Party  dues  from  Mr.  Tamargo? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Do  you  know  Mr.  Tamargo  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Did  you  ever  see  Mr.  Tamargo,  before  yesterday? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  We  will  assume  it  is  all  on  the  same  ground,  the  fifth 
amendment. 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Correct. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Have  you  engaged  in  any  Communist  activity  in  your 
union,  Mr.  Fernandez  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  This  is  a  very  important  point.  Mr.  Fernandez,  are 
there  any  Communist  activities  going  on  within  your  union? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Have  you  ever  been  an  officer  of  any  kind  in  your 
union  ? 

At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez,  "\^^lat  kind  of  office  do  you  mean? 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Did  you  have  any  post  of  any  kind  in  the  union? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  had  it  once,  but  it  was  a  long  time. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  '\'\niat  was  that  post? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  belonged  to  the  advisory  board. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  The  advisory  board.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  when  you  belonged  to  the  advisory  board  of  the  union  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Have  you  ever  delivered  the  Daily  Worker  in  Tampa  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr,  Fernandez.  I  refuse. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  I  have  here  a  newspaper  clipping,  marked  "Fernandez 
Exhibit  1"  for  identification,  "Mystery  Man  Who  Delivers  Red  Daily 
Worker  Here  Ducks  Reporter's  Question." 

Then  it  goes  on  about  the  Tribune  in  Tampa  taking  a  picture  of  a 
man  and  describes  in  detail  picking  up  the  Red  paper.    It  is  dated 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7421 

July  18,  1954,  this  year,  and  there  is  a  picture  here,  headed,  "Man 
Who  Picked  Up  Ked  Paper  Here,"  It  says  he  was  reluctant  to  have 
his  picture  taken,  threw  his  arm  in  front  of  his  face  and  drove  away 
quickly  in  a  1949  Chevrolet  automobile.  Do  you  drive  a  1949  Chevro- 
let automobile? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  do? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Are  you  the  man  who  is  being  mentioned  in  this  paper  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  am  going  to  ask  Mr.  Fuoss,  the  investigator  for 
the  committee,  to  take  this  picture  and  let  you  look  at  it,  and  ask  you. 
Isn't  that  a  picture  of  you,  yourself  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  DoYXE.  I  think  the  record  should  show  the  witness  and  counsel 
are  closely  observing  the  picture  submitted. 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse. 

INIr.  Clardy.  You  don't  deny  that  is  your  picture  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds? 

I  would  like  to  offer  this  newspaper  article  in  evidence  Mr.  Chair- 
man, as  exhibit  1,  Fernandez,  because  it  is  most  obviously  a  picture 
of  this  witness. 

Mr.  Velde.  Without  objection,  it  will  be  received. 

(Thereupon  the  newspaper  article  referred  to  above  was  received 
in  evidence  as  exhibit  1,  Fernandez,  without  objection.) 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  get  paid  for  picking  up  these  papers  and 
delivering  them  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Doyle.  It  isn't  clear  to  me  what  pajDer  it  is. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  It  is  the  Daily  Worker.  The  Daily  Worker  is  the 
main  Communist  outlet  and  organ  in  the  United  States  of  America. 

Why  was  this  picking  up  of  the  Daily  Worker  in  Tampa  of  this 
year  such  a  secret  operation  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Why  did  you  refuse  to  tell  the  newspaper  reporter 
frankly  what  you  were  doing  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  In  America  today  it  is  legal  to  read  newspapers.  Why 
do  you  refuse  to  answer  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  There  is  an  interesting  detail  in  the  story  I  would 
like  to  inquire  about.  It  says,  in  describing  you  here,  that  you  were 
dressed  in  a  loud  red  pattern  and  short-sleeved  sport  shirt  at  the 
time.    Do  you  possess  a  shirt  of  that  kind  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  How  much  do  you  weigh? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 


7422        COMIMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF   FLORIDA 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  weigli  no^Y  about  170, 

Mr.  Clardy.  170? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  Less  than  170. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Noay,  yon  say.    What  did  yon  wei,o-]i  in  July? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  don't  remember. 

Mr.  Clardy.  The  reporter  here  says  you  are  of  average  height  and 
weight  about  180  pounds.  Pie  probably  wouldn't  qualify  on  one  of  the 
county  fair  guessing  contests,  if  you  only  weigh  170. 

It  also  says  you  picked  up  these  papers  at  about  4:  20  in  the  after- 
noon. Do  you  have  any  recollection  of  about  the  time  you  did  pick 
them  up  on  that  July  day  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  v.'ith  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  How  frequently  have  you  picked  up  papers  at  the 
terminal  there  ? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  The  article  also  says  that  the  bundle  contained  about 
100  papers.    Is  that  an  accurate  estimate? 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  have  heard  of  the  Daily  Worker,  Ivayg  you  not? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  And  you  know  they  have  a  Sunday  edition  in  addi- 
tion to  their  regular  daily  edition,  clon't  you  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr,  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Doyle.  It  seems  to  me  my  colleague  seems  to  know  more  about 
the  Daily  Worker  than  the  witness. 

Mr.  Clardy.  I  suppose  it  is  our  business  to  know^,  and  despite  your 
innocent  statement,  I  am  sure  you  know  just  as  much. 

The  article  also  says  that  at  one  time  the  papers  did  not  arrive  on 
time  and  you  raised  quite  a  fuss  about  it.  Do  you  recall  such  an  in- 
cident ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy,  Do  you  know  the  correct  name  of  the  newspaper  which 
published  this  article?  It  is  described  in  here  as  written  by  a  Mr, 
Tom  O'Connor,  Tribune  staff  w^riter.  Do  you  know  JNIr.  Tom  O'Con- 
nor, or  the  paper  for  which  he  writes? 

(At  this  point  Mr,  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  know  the  Tribune. 

Mr,  Clardy,  Where  is  it  published  ? 

Mr,  Fernandez.  In  Tampa. 

Mr.  Clardy.  And  do  you  know  Mr.  O'Connor  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Clardy.  He  made  himself  known  to  you  on  the  day  you  picked 
up  the  bundle,  and  the  picture  was  taken,  did  he  not? 
(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr,  Eldred.) 

Mr,  Fernandez,  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  At  that  time,  didn't  you,  however,  acknowledge  to 
someone  that  you  were  picking  up  the  Daily  Worker? 
(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 
Mr,  Fernandez,  I  refuse  to  answer. 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7423 

Mr.  Clardy.  Did  you  have  some  conversation  at  that  time  with  the 
porter  wlio  handled  the  papers  for  you  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Fernandez  conferred  with  Mr.  Eldred.) 

Mr.  Fernandez.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Clardy.  I  guess  that  is  all  I  have  on  that.  Apparently  he  is 
not  going  to  answer  anything  about  it. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  We  did  not  do  any  better  than  the  reporter  of  this  ar- 
ticle, which  says,  "Mystei-y  man  who  handles  Eed  Daily  Worker  ducks 
question."     No  further  questions. 

Mr.  Velde.  No  further  questions  of  this  witness,  but  before  we 
excuse  him,  I  would  like  to  say  to  Mr.  Eldred  that  the  Committee  on 
Un-American  Activities  appreciates  the  service  rendered  by  him.  It 
is  a  patriotic  service  you  have  rendered.  I  am  sure  the  people  will 
appreciate  it  a  great  deal.  Nothing  derogatory  should  be  assumed 
from  the  fact  you  have  represented  a  fifth  amendment  witness. 

I  would  appreciate  it  if  you  would  pay  our  thanks  to  the  president 
of  the  Miami  Bar  Association. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Some  time  ago  I  noted  in  our  paper  up  in  Michigan 
that  an  attorney  down  here  in  your  locality  had  taken  the  fifth  amend- 
ment and  the  judge  had,  I  think  quite  properly,  taken  action  to  dis- 
bar him. 

It  may  interest  you  to  know  we  had  three  attorneys  before  us,  most, 
or  all  of  which  were  on  the  Michigan  hearings.  I  passed  that  informa- 
tion on  to  our  bar  association,  but  thus  far  no  action  has  been  taken. 

I  am  glad  to  note  that  Florida,  at  least,  has  taken  the  proper  steps, 
and  the  chairman  has  indicated  that  the  bar  down  here  and  in  other 
places  has  cooperated  in  supplying  counsel  for  those  unable  to  take 
care  of  that  detail  themselves. 

Mr.  Velde.  The  committee  will  recess  for  10  minutes. 

(Thereupon,  at  10:43  a.  m.,  the  hearing  was  recessed  for  10 
minutes.) 

( Hearing  resumed  at  11 :  07  a.  m.) 
.    Mr.  Velde.  Before  we  commence,  Mr.  Counsel,  I  should  like  to 
make  an  announcement. 

Mr.  Hirsch,  I  believe  you  are  back  there.  The  committee  has  de- 
cided it  will  no  longer  serve  any  useful  purpose  by  hearing  any  fur- 
ther information  from  Mr.  Hirsch,^  so  you  are  therefore  excused.  The 
committee  also  decided  to  recommend  to  the  Attorney  General  that 
this  record  be  studied  for  possible  perjury  charges. 

Call  your  next  witness,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Will  Mrs.  Hilda  Shl^frock  come  forward  ? 

Mr.  Velde.  In  tlie  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  before  this  com- 
mittee, do  you  solemnly  swear  to  tell  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and 
nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  I  do. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Would  you  state  your  full  name,  please  ? 

TESTIMONY  OF  HILDA  SHLAFROCK 

Mrs.  SiiLAFROGK.  Hilda  Shlafrock. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  is  your  present  address,  Mrs.  Shlafrock? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  65  East  Gun  Hill  Road,  Bronx. 


1  Samuel  Hirsch  had  previously  appeared  as  a  witnessi  on  November  29,  1954.     See  pt.  1 
of  this  hearing  for  his  testimony. 

55634— 55— pt.  2 4 


7424        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  Ktjnzig.  I  see  you  do  not  have  counsel  at  your  side.  The  com- 
mittee, of  course,  under  its  rules,  permits  every  witness  to  have  counsel. 
1  take  it  you  are  willing  to  testify  without  counsel  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  I  will  be  happy  to  cooperate.  I  am  grateful  for 
this  opportunity. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Mrs.  Shlafrock,  you  and  I  have  discussed  this  pre- 
viously. It  is  my  understanding  you  have  been  greatly  troubled  for 
quite  some  time  because  of  the  linking  of  your  own  name  with  that  of 
your  former  husband.  Max  Shlafrock,  as  to  Communist  Party  activity, 
and  you  volunteered  to  come  here  before  this  committee  and  set  that 
record  straight ;  is  that  correct  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  Yes ;  I  was  very  happy  to  do  so. 

Mr.  Velde.  Will  you  speak  up  a  little  ? 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Speak  louder,  because  it  is  very  difficult  to  hear. 

Mrs.  Shlafrock,  were  you  married  at  any  time  to  Max  Shlafrock, 
who  took  the  fifth  amenclment  before  this  committee  yesterday  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  Yes ;  I  was  married  to  Max  Shlafrock  from  1940 
to  1950. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Have  you,  yourself,  Mrs.  Shlafrock,  ever  been  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  No ;  I  haven't. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  have  had  nothing  to  do  with  the  Communist 
Party ;  is  that  correct  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  No ;  I  have  never,  never. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  ever  have  any  occasion  to  find  out  that  your 
former  husband  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  Yes ;  I  had  that  occasion.  We  were  married  about 
4  months  when  he  told  me  there  was  going  to  be  a  meeting  in  the  house. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  A  meeting,  and  I  did  not  know  what  it  was  until 
the  meeting  was  held,  in  my  home,  and  I  found  out  that  must  be  a 
Communist  Party  meeting,  because  it  was  very  different  from  the_ 
meetings  I  attended. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  organizations  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  I  belong  to  the  Nizra  Hei — I  believe,  something 
like  that,  and  to  Hadassah. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  In  other  words,  you  mean  this  particular  meeting  was 
entirely  different  from  ordinary  groups,  to  w^hich  you  belong,  per- 
sonally ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  I  saw  immediately  something  was  wrong,  because 
the  blinds  were  drawn,  and  the  doors  closed. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Was  the  door  locked  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  Yes. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  your  husband  ever  have  occasion  to  tell  you  he 
was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  Yes ;  I  saw  his  membership  card. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  He  showed  you  his  Communist  Party  membership 
card? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  know  it  was  some  time  ago,  but  can  you  remember 
any  of  the  names  of  the  people  who  attended  this  Communist  Party 
meeting  in  your  home,  this  one  meeting  you  referred  to  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  There  were  only  5  or  6  people.  I  don't  know  how 
many,  but  there  was  Joe  Carbonell. 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF   FLORIDA       7425 

Then  there  was  Mike  McGrail.  He  was  some  business  agent  of  the 
carpenters,  or  some  local,  in  Miami. 

Mrs.  SiiLA FROCK,  Then  there  was  a  husband  and  wife  by  the  name 
of  Frank  and  Catherine,  and  I  don't  recall  their  last  names. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  But  in  regard  to  McGrail  and  Carbonell,  you  saw  them  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  Yes. 

Mr.  Clardy.  That  one  meeting  was  held  in  Miami  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  Yes,  it  has  all  been  taking  place  in  Miami. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  During  the  10  years  you  have  been  married  to  Mr.  Max 
Shlafrock,  you  have  been  living  in  Miami  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  And  as  far  as  lies  within  your  knowledge,  was  he  ac- 
tive in  attending  and  going  to  Communist  meetings  during  that  time  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  I  knew  he  attended  meetings,  and  I  always  had 
some  excuse. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  he  try  to  urge  you  to  become  a  Communist? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  Yes. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  And  you  did  not  accept  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  No. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  From  consultation,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  is  the  total 
knowledge  of  this  witness  about  this  situation.  Her  experience  is 
completely  confined  to  what  she  has  already  testified,  since  she,  herself, 
was  not  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party.  I  therefore  have  no 
further  questions. 

Mr.  DoTLE.  I  did  not  understand.  Madam,  where  that  one  meeting 
was  held.  I  mean  the  address,  your  residence,  where  that  one  Com- 
munist Party  meeting  was  held. 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  It  was  in  my  home  in  Miami,  when  I  first  got  mar- 
ried.    I  was  married  about  4  months. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Where  was  that? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  1857  Northwest  38th  Street. 

Mr.  Doyle.  About  when  was  that,  what  month  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  I  don't  recall  the  month.  I  was  married  in  Feb- 
ruary, and  it  was  4  or  5  months  later,  and  that  would  have  been  about 
in  July,  or  June,  or  somewhere  around. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  time  of  day  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  It  wasn't  during  the  day ;  it  was  in  the  evening. 

Mr.  Doyle.  About  how  long  was  the  meeting  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  I  wouldn't  remember.  It  took  a  while.  I  don't 
remember  how  long  it  was;  I  was  putting  the  children  to  sleep,  and 
I  was  busy  with  them.  I  don't  remember  exactly,  but  it  took  at  least 
an  hour,  or  more. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  noticed  you  stated  you  were  very  glad  to  come  and 
set  the  record  straight.  Wliat  is  your  reason  for  voluntarily  coming 
before  this  committee? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  First  of  all,  I  want  to  clear  my  own  conscience, 
and  I  have  a  daughter  who  was  formally  adopted  by  Mr.  Shlafrock, 
and  just  recently,  about  a  year  ago,  she  got  a  position  with  the  Gov- 
ernment and  she  never  got  a  clearance,  because  Mr.  Shlafrock  was 
a  Communist.  That  is  what  they  got  down  on  that  statement,  and 
if  there  is  any  way  I  could  just  clear  her  name,  I  would  do  it,  not 
so  much  for  myself;  and  I  have  a  son-in-law,  who  is  an  attorney, 
and  I  don't  want  to  give  him  a  bad  start  in  life.  He  just  got  out 
of  service. 


7426        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  was  sure  it  was  a  very  worthy  motive,  and  I  have 
never  met  you  before  and  asked  you  why  his  divorced  wife  should  have 
come  vokintarily  ? 

Mrs.  Shlafrock.  Glad  to  do  it. 

Mr.  DoTLE.  Thank  you  very  much. 

Mr.  Velde.  Mrs.  Shlafrock,  let  me  say  on  behalf  of  the  committee, 
we  do  make  every  effort  to  clear  up  confusion  which  may  exist  in 
the  minds  of  the  public,  in  reference  to  any  testimony  that  is 
brought  before  this  committee,  and  I  do  hope  in  this  case  it  serves  a 
useful  purpose,  and  we  thank  you  for  coming  voluntarily  before  us. 

You  are  excused  now. 

I  have  an  appointment,  and  I  have  to  leave,  and  I  am  appointing 
a  subcommittee  of  Mr.  Scherer,  Mr.  Doyle,  and  Mr.  Clardy  as  sub- 
committee chairman. 

(Representative  Velde  left  the  hearing  at  this  point.) 

Mr.  KuNziG.  James  Nimmo  ? 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  do  solemnly  swear  the  testimon}^  you  are  about 
to  give  will  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth, 
so  help  you  God? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  do. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Be  seated. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Would  you  give  us  your  full  name  ? 

TESTIMONY  OF  JAMES  NIMMO 

Mr.  Nimmo.  James  B.  Nimmo. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  That  is  N-i-m-m-o? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Correct. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  AYliat  is  your  present  address,  Mr.  Nimmo  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  5104  Zehring  Street,  West  Hollywood,  Fla. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  That  is  Z-e-h-r-i-n-g? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Yes. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  I  see  you  are  not  accompanied  by  counsel.  You 
know  your  right  to  have  counsel.  Am  I  correct,  you  are  willing  to 
testify  without  counsel? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  I  am. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mr.  Nimmo,  when  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  was  born  in  the  Bahamas,  at  Acklins  Island. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  ^Ylien  were  you  born,  Mr.  Nimmo  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  December  15,  1898. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  are,  then,  56  years  of  age  at  the  present  time  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  I  will  be  on  the  15th  of  this  month,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Wlien,  Mr.  Nimmo,  did  you  come  to  the  United 
States  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  In  the  year  1916,  in  the  month  of  August. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Are  you  today  a  naturalized  citizen? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  I  am,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  When  did  you  become  a  naturalized  citizen? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  In  1927. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  "Where? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  In  Miami,  Fla.;  here. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  And  have  you  been  a  naturalized  citizen  of  this  coun- 
try ever  since  that  time? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  I  have,  sir. 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7427 

Mr.  KuNziG.  How  long  have  you  resided  in  Miami,  Fla.  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Ever  since  my  arrival  here,  with  the  exception  of  about 
18  or  19  months  in  the  Army,  when  I  went  overseas  in  World  War  I. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  volunteer  for  duty  in  World  War  I  ? 

Mr.  NiMMo.  I  did,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Where  did  you  serve? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  In  France. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  And  were  you  honorably  discharged? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  was,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  In  1919? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  outfit  did  you  serve  with  in  France? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  In  the  310th  Service  Battalion,  on  the  headquarters 
staff. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Could  you  give  the  committee,  Mr.  Nimmo,  a  brief 
I'esume  of  your  education  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Well,  I  attended  the  public  schools  at  my  home. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  mean  in  the  Bahamas? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Yes,  sir ;  and  went  as  far  as  the  sixth  grade. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Is  that  the  sum  total  of  your  formal  schooling  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  did  not  attend  schools  here  in  the  United  States? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Now  will  you  give  us  a  resume  of  your  employment 
record,  where  you  have  worked  since  you  came  to  the  United  States  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  when  I  first  came  here,  because  of  the  fact  1 
was  an  apprentice  tailor,  I  worked  at  some  tailor  shops  in  the  Negro 
area. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Of  Miami? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Yes,  sir.  I  did  some  degree  of  alterations,  and  hand 
pressing. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  And  then  from  1918  to  1919,  you  have  testified  you 
were  in  the  military  service  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Starting  with  1919,  where  did  you  work? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  For  a  short  period  of  time,  I  was  employed  by  the  Sej' 
bold  Baking  Co.,  after  being  discharged  from  service. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Continue  with  your  employment. 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  think  it  was  about  1921  I  entered  the  dry-cleaning 
business.  I  worked  in  the  dry-cleaning  business  continually  from 
then  until  now,  with  the  exception  of  about  G  years  as  international 
organizer  for  the  Laundry  International  Union. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  When  were  you  international  organizer  for  the  Laun- 
dry International  Union  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  From  about  1945, 1  think  it  was,  until  1953,  I  believe. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Have  you  at  any  time  ever  been  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  When? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  don't  know  exactly  when  I  got  into  the  party,  but  it 
was  during  the  early  forties. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  were  a  Communist  })rior  to  the  time  when  you 
became  international  organizer  for  the  laundry  union  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 


7428        COMMUNIST   ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF   FLORIDA 

Mr.  KuNziG.  When  did  you  get  out  of  the  party  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  About  1950. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  So  from  the  early  forties  to  1950,  you  were  a  member  of 
the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  was. 

Mr.  ScHEEER.  Were  you  a  member  during  the  time  you  were  inter- 
national representative  of  the  union  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  So  far  as  it  lies  within  your  knowledge,  did  your  Com- 
munist Party  activities  prior  to  1945  have  anything  to  do  with  your 
becoming  international  organizer  for  the  union  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir;  none  whatsoever. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Was  it  known  to  the  other  members  of  the  union  you 
were  a  Communist  Party  member  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Were  any  other  members  of  the  union  known  to  be 
Communist  Party  members  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  As  far  as  you  know,  you  were  the  only  one? 

Mr.  NiMMO,  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Dicl  you  know  Charles  Smolikoff  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Tell  us  about  him,  in  detail,  your  knowledge  of  Mr. 
Smolikoff? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  it  was  in  the  early  forties  when  a  group  of 
laundry  and  dry-cleaning  workers  were  attempting,  or  at  least  were, 
I  guess  that  will  be  right,  attempting  to  organize  themselves  into  a 
union.  We  were  holding  meetings  over  a  period  of  time  at  the  lo- 
cation of  4th  Avenue  and  19th  Street,  and  during  this  period  of  time 
there  arose  some  trouble  in  one  of  the  plants  where  some  of  our  mem- 
bers who  had  attended  the  union,  it  came  to  the  knowledge  of  the 
employer  of  the  plant  in  which  these  workers  were  employed,  and 
rhey  were  discharged,  and  because  of  this,  we  held  a  meeting  at  the 
hall  and  as  a  result  of  this,  other  workers  from  plants  other  than 
the  one  where  the  workers  were  first  discharged,  attended  the  meet- 
ings also,  and  it  resulted  in  a  strike  involving  about  four  plants.  City 
Laundry,  French  Benzol,  Town  Laundry — I  think  it  was  known  then 
as  the  Economy  Laundry — and  I  think  a  laundry  in  the  Hileah  dis- 
trict.    I  don't  just  remember  the  name. 

During  this  time  we  used  to  have  large  gatherings  at  our  meeting 
yjjlace,  and  it  was  there  on  one  occasion  Mr.  Smolikoff  came  to  us,  at 
least  someone  said  a  gentleman  outside  wanted  to  see  you,  and  Mr. 
Smolikoff  turned  out  to  be  the  gentleman.  He  wanted  to  know  if 
he  could  be  of  any  assistance  to  us. 

I  don't  know  whether  or  not  he  was  admitted  into  our  meeting 
that  night,  but  on  several  other  occasions  he  did  come  around.  We 
used  to  hold  meetings  regularly,  every  night,  during  the  strike. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Where  was  this  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  At  the  meeting  hall,  not  with  the  Laundry  Inter- 
national; this  was  an  independent,  prior  to  the  organization  of  the 
Laundry  International  Union. 

Mr.  Ktjnzig.  Where  was  this  union  hall  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Fourth  Avenue  and  19th  Street;  4th  Court,  to  be 
proper,  and  19th  Street. 


COMMUNIST   ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7429 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Continue,  please. 

Mr.  NiMMO.  And  after  some  time,  I  don't  just  remember  how  long, 
he  was  admitted  into  our  halls,  and  he  did  address  our  meetings  and 
he  gave  us  directions  and  guidance.  This  was  during  the  war,  also, 
and  on  1  or  2  occasions  he  went  to  one  of  the  dry-cleaning  plants. 
City  Dry  Cleaning,  and  took  a  picture  of  loading  trucks  and  he  filecl 
a  petition  for  us  at  the  War  Labor  Board,  or  National  Labor  Re- 
lations Board — I  am  not  familiar  which — to  show  the  plant  was 
handling  war  work  and  workers  had  a  legitimate  right  to  organize, 
and  so  on  and  so  forth.  It  was  during  this  period  of  time,  and  I 
don't  know  just  how  long  it  was,  but  he  would  then  give  me  leaflets 
and  pamphlets  on  communism,  and  he  eventually  invited  me  to 
meetings. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Communist  meetings  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes. 

Mr.  ScHERER,  AVliat  was  Smolikoff's  connection  with  this  union, 
if  any  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No  direct  connection.  He  gave  us  voluntary  service 
is  all  I  can  say. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Do  I  understand  he  injected  himself  into  this  con- 
troversy ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  guess  you  will  have  to  say  that. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Did  the  men  know  he  was  the  Communist  organizer? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Nobody  knew  it ;  I  did  not  even  at  the  time,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  But  you  began  to  find  out  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  He  wasn't  paid  for  his  service  at  all? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  By  the  union,  at  least? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  You  don't  know  whether  he  was  receiving  his  pay 
from  the  Communist  Party,  or  not  ? 

Mr.  NiiMMO.  That,  I  don't  know. 

.Mr.  ScHERER.  Over  how  long  a  period  did  this  continue  that  he 
voluntarily  loaned  his  services  and  advice  to  this  group  ? 

Mv.  NiMMO.  It  might  have  been  for  a  period  of  2  months,  or  more, 
and  then  we  became  connected  with  a  Mr.  Florio  who  was  district 
organizer  here  for  the  CIO,  district  50  of  the  United  Mine  Workers. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Did  Smolikoff's  activities  continue  for  the  period  of 
the  strike  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO,  Yes,  it  did. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  After  the  strike  was  over,  did  he  sever  his  connections 
with  your  group  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  There  wasn't  a  group,  as  such.  After  the  strike  was 
lost,  let  me  put  it  that  way,  we  became,  Mr.  Florio  himself  took  us 
into  district  50  of  the  United  Mine  Workers,  and  he  carried  on 
organizational  activities  for  approximately  a  year. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  That  was  after  Smolikoff  got  out  of  the  picture, 
wasn't  it? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Smolikoff  wasn't  exactly  out  of  the  picture,  because 
he  still  visited  our  meetings. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  'Wliat  was  his  occupation  at  the  time? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  don't  know. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  He  didn't  tell  you  ? 


7430        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  ScpiERER.  Do  you  know  if  he  approached  any  person,  other 
tlian  yourself,  concerning  Communist  Party  activities'^ 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  now,  I  don't  know  how  to  answer  that.  I  assume 
so,  sir. 

]\lr.  ycHERER.  Smolikoff,  Mr.  Fuoss,  was  one  of  the  15  or  20  we  had 
subpenaed  but  haven't  been  able  to  serve? 

j\lr.  Ftjoss.  Correct. 

Mr.  Clardy.  I  don't  think  the  fact  Smolikoff  moved  in  on  the 
strike  is  surprising.  You  remember  the  case  in  Washington  where 
Communists  moved  in  on  the  strike  to  direct  it,  not  with  an  idea  of 
winning  the  strike,  but  creating  as  much  trouble  as  possible. 

Mr.  JSciiERER.  Or  gaining  converts. 

Mr.  DoYEE.  As  long  as  the  ciuestion  of  serving  Smolikoff  with  a 
subpena  has  been  raised,  may  I  ask,  Mr.  Fuoss,  whether  due  diligence 
and  every  reasonable  effort  has  been  made  to  serve  him  with  that 
snb]:>ena  ? 

Mr.  Fuoss.  We  have  endeavored  to  serve  it,  but  do  not  know  his 
location. 

Mr.  DoTUE.  My  question  is,  Have  you  made  every  reasonable  en- 
deavor to  serve  him  ? 

Mr.  Fuoss.  Yes,  sir,  certainly. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  have  done  that  with  others.  You  have  their  last- 
known  address. 

Mr.  Scherer.  The  United  States  marshall  has  attempted  to  help 
in  serving  these  subpenas. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Will  you  tell  us  how  you  became  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party.     Describe  the  actual  membership  you  received? 

Mr.  NiisiMO.  As  I  said,  he  then  gave  me  phamphlets  on  commu- 
nism, and  in  a  short  period  of  time  he  invited  me  to  meetings.  I  don't 
remember  the  first  meeting,  but  I  know  it  was  at  the  CIO  headquar- 
ters at  730  West  Flagler  Street. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  mean  the  first  Communist  Party  meeting? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziCx.  Did  you  just  continue  to  attend  these  meetings? 
"^Ylien  did  you  finally  consider,  and  Smolikoff  consider  you  to  be  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  don't  know  when  he  considered  me  as  being;  all  I 
know  is  I  have  been  attending  the  meetings  from  then  on.  I  never, 
in  any  official  way,  joined  the  party.  I  would  always  go  to  meetings 
whenever  he  requested  me.  It  would  just  be  Charlie  would  either 
call  me  or  come  to  me,  or  we  would  be  together. 

You  see,  I  worked  with  Smolikoff  during  the  organization  of  the 
shipyard  workers  and  also  the  Pan  American  workers. 

Mr.  Scherer.  "Wliat  part  did  he  play  in  the  organization  of  the 
shipyard  workers  union? 

INIr.  NiMMO.  As  far  as  I  know,  he  was  the  organizer  for  the  group. 
That  is  what  I  always  regarded. 

Mr.  Scherer.  Do  you  know  what  his  occupation  was  during  the 
time  he  was  organizer  for  that  group  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  never  loiew  of  any  occupation  of  his.  ^Vlien  he 
came  to  us,  he  came  to  iis  o;iving  us  assistance,  and  after  Florio  took 
us  over,  he  would  still  visit  our  meetings,  and  sometime  later  he 
started  organizing  the  shipyard  workers. 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7431 

Mr.  ScHERER,  Was  that  also  on  a  voluntary  basis? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  don't  know.     I  wasn't  a  member  of  the  outfit. 

Mr.  Clardy.  He  was  quite  a  busy  fellow,  volunteering  his  help  all 
over  the  place. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Do  you  know  whether  Charles  Smolikoff  ever 
worked  in  the  shipbuilding  business  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  never  knew  him  to  work. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Actually,  wasn't  he  paid  by  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  assume  the  shipyard  workers  was  affiliated  with  an 
international,  the  same  as  our  laundry  workers,  and  I  would  assume 
the  international  paid  him  a  salary. 

Mr.  Clardt.  You  do  not  know  that  was  a  fact  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No. 

Mr.  Clardy.  He  had  no  visible  means  of  support  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No. 

Mr.  Scherer.  Did  you  know  whether  he  was  paid  by  the  Communist 
Party  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Scherer.  Do  you  laiow  what  his  official  position  was  with  the 
Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  I  don't  know  what  his  official  position  was.  All  I 
know  is  from  all  appearance,  he  was  the  leader  here. 

Mr.  Scherer.  The  leader  in  this  community  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Scherer.  Of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  It  appeared  so  to  me,  from  all  indications. 

Mr.  Scherer.  Wasn't  he  considered  so  by  other  members  of  the 
party,  as  the  leader  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge,  yes. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Was  that  because  he  made  the  final  decision  or  deter- 
mination as  to  policy,  whenever  such  a  question  would  arise? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  will  put  it  this  way,  generally  it  was  Smolikoff — 
Smolikoff  was  the  party,  to  me,  and  from  what  I  gathered,  he  was 
the  party. 

Mr.  Clardy.  He  gave  the  orders  and  instructions  and  advise,  is 
that  right? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Scherer.  I  think  our  staff,  Mr.  Chairman,  should  make  every 
effort  to  serve  Smolikoff  and  have  him  befoi-e  the  committee,  because 
obviously  here  is  a  man,  from  what  little  testimony  we  have  had  here, 
who  is  guilty  of  violating  the  Smitii  Act,  and  perhaps  his  testimony 
might  be  helpful  to  the  Attorney  General  in  determining  whether  or 
not  he  should  be  proceeded  against  for  advocating  the  policy  of  the 
Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Clardy.  It  is  another  matter  we  will  take  up  during  the  noon 
recess. 

]Mr.  KuNziG.  Mr.  Nimmo,  did  you  ever  have  any  conversations 
with  Smolikoff  about  Daily  Worker  subscriptions  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  he  has  asked  me  to  secure  or  get  subscriptions  for 
the  Daily  Worker. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Did  you  subscribe  for  it  yourself? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir.  I  have  received  it  tlii-ough  the  mail,  but  I 
never  subscribed  for  it. 

5.56S4 — 55 — ,3t.  2 5 


7432        CORiMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  said  a  Avhile  ago  there  was  no  formal  step  or 
action  taken  that  brought  you  into  the  party.  You  had  no  formal 
initiation,  but  you  considered  yourself  a  member  ? 

Mr.  XiMMO.  I  was  invited  to,  and  attended  meetings,  and  I  went 
along. 

Mr.  Clardy.  With  Smolikoff? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Clardy.  And  I  assume  there  came  a  time  when  you  were  also 
requested  to  pay  dues  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  I  want  to  be  honest  with  you,  dues  have  beer 
mentioned,  but  I  have  never  paid  any  dues. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  got  by  without  doing  that  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  guess  I  was  carried. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Were  you,  perhaps,  carried  as  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  because  you  were  international  representatives  of  the 
laundry-workers  union? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  wasn't  an  international  representaitve  of  the  laundry- 
workers  union  at  the  time  I  got  in  the  party,  sir. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  After  you  were  international  representative,  at  some 
time  you  were  in  the  party  ? 

Mr.  NiM3io.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  When  were  you  international  representative  of  the 
laundry-workers  union  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  From  the  year  1945  until  1953. 

Mr.  ScuERER.  And  vou  v.ere  in  the  partv  fror.i  what  vear? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Until  1950. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  So  at  least  5  years  you  were  in  the  party  ( 

Mr.  NiMMO.  That  is  right,  sir. 

Mr.  ScuERER.  And  were  also  international  representative? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

JNIr.  Clardy.  You  have  a  distinction  I  don't  think  anybody  else 
has.  You  are  the  first  member  I  have  run  across  who  has  not  paid  10 
cents  a  month,  anyway,  in  dues. 

]Mr.  NiMMO.  JSIaybe  I  can  clarify  it  by  stating  this;  from  wdiat  I 
can  gather,  maybe  I  have  had  other  distinctions.  I  got  into  the  party 
on  what  was  known  as  the  city  committee,  at  the  start.  I  never  was 
belonging  to  a  club  group  wdiere  they  collect  dues.  I  have  seen  repre- 
sentatives from  the  clubs  report  to  the  city  committee  about  the  col- 
lection of  dues  from  their  clubs,  but  I  never  belonged  to  a  club;  I 
always  functioned  only  at  the  city  committee,  and  as  far  as  I  know 
I  have  never  seen  any  dues  collected. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  You  started  at  the  top  city  level  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

INIr.  Clardy.  You  were  more  or  less  one  of  the  connnanding  officers 
at  the  top  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  That  is  where  I  found  myself. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  That  is  the  first  time  we  found  out  the  top  echelon 
did  not  have  to  pay  dues. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  are  the  first  witness  who  has  appeared  since  I 
have  been  on  the  committee  who  has  testified  he  was  at  one  time  a 
member  but  wasn't  assessed  dues,  or  gave  them  voluntarily.  Wait 
a  minute — did  you  make  some  voluntary  contribution  ? 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7433 

]\Ir.  NiM3io.  Xo,  I  don't  recall  mtiking-  any  voluntarj^  contribution. 
I  also  attended  a  meetino-  where  I  saw  approximately  $1,900  raised 
for  the  Daily  Worker,  and  I  did  not  give  a  donation  there. 

Mr.  DoTLE.  May  I  ask  the  Avitness,  did  yon  receive  any  contribu- 
tions ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Usuall}'  it  is  the  percentage  of  his  salary ;  it  depends 
on  what  you  make.    Did  you  know  that  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  heard  that  in  the  discussions,  that  dues  were  paid 
on  the  basis  of  earnings. 

INIr.  ScHERER.  A^Hiat  was  that  percentage? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  never  heard  what  the  exact  percentage  was. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  In  some  cases  it  would  run  as  high  as  10  percent. 

Mr.  ISTiMMO.  I  don't  know. 

]\Ir.  ScHERER.  In  some  instances,  I  understand  they  tithe. 

Mr.  Clardy.  At  any  rate,  you  rendered  the  service  requested,  but 
you  did  not  make  financial  contributions? 

Mr.  NiMiMO.  Xo.  sir. 

Mr.  KuxziG,  Who  was  on  this  city  committee  with  you?  We  are 
only  interested  in  knowing  the  names  of  those  who  met  at  closed 
meetings  of  the  cit}^  committee  with  j'ou. 

JNIr.  XiMMO.  There  were  different  people  at  different  times.  I  don't 
kno'v  if  I  can  correctly  state  all  the  people  that  were  on  the  committee 
from  time  to  time,  but  as  best  I  can  remember,  there  was,  with  the 
exception  of  Smolikoff  and  myself,  there  was  a  INIike  Shantzek. 

Mr.  KuxziG.  How  do  you  spell  it  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  don't  know. 

Mr.  KuxziG.  Pronounce  it. 

Mr.  NiMMo.  Mike  Shantzek. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  It  is  spelled  M-i-k-e  S-h-a-n-t-z-e-k.  Would  you 
identify  him  a  little  further,  Mike  Shantzek? 

yir.  XiMMO.  I  have  always  heard  him  talk  about  being  a  painter, 
and  he  is  sort  of  heavy  set. 

Mr.  Kr^xziG.  You  knew  him  to  be  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party,  from  your  own  personal  knowledge  ? 

]\Ir.  NiMjro.  Yes-  sir,  we  attended  closed  meetings. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Was  he  still  a  member  when  you  got  out,  when  you 
left  the  party? 

IMr.  NiMMO.  Frankly,  I  hadn't  seen  him  for  several  years  before 
I  got  out.    I  hadn't  seen  him  for  2  or  3  vears  before  I  tjot  out. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Then,  of  course,  yoCi  don't  know  where  he  is  today  i 

Mr.  NiMMo.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Or  what  he  is  doing  ? 

INIr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir,  I  don't.  I  onh^  met  with  him  when  he  was 
on  the  city  committee.  When  they  are  not  on  the  city  committee,  I 
wouldn't  see  them,  unless  they  met  with  the  city  committee. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  He  could  still  be  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party 
and  you  not  see  him. 

Who  else  was  a  member  of  the  city  committee  and  met  with  you? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Tess  Kantor. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  T-e-s-s   K-a-n-t-o-r. 

Man  or  woman  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Woman. 


7434        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Could  you  describe  her  a  little  further  ?  Some  identi- 
fication ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  She  was  a  medium  built  woman.  I  think  she  would 
have  what  you  call  blonde  hair — I  don't  know.  She  was  very  gay 
and  affable.     I  heard  mentioned  she  was  a  lawyer,  I  believe. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  But  you  are  not  sure  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  never  heard  her  say  so. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Do  you  know  where  she  lived  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  At  Miami  Beach. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  And  she  was  a  member  of  the  Comnumist  Party  city 
committee  at  Miami,  with  you? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Ktjnzig.  "Wliat  period  of  time  would  that  have  been,  Mr.  Nimmo,  * 
to  the  best  of  your  recollection  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  let  me  say  maybe  around  1945,  1946,  1947,  prob- 
ably ;  I  don't  know  exactly. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Who  else  was  a  member  of  the  city  committee  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Leah  Adler. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Have  you  ever  heard  her  called  Leah  Adler  Benemov- 
sky,  or  did  you  know  her  as  Leah  Adler  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  I  knew  her  as  Leah  Adler. 

Mr.  Ktjnzig.  In  the  record,  she  has  been  identified  both  ways,  Leah 
Adler  or  Leah  Adler  Benemovsky. 

Could  you  identify  Leah  Adler  Benemovsl^y  for  us  further,  please? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  She  is  an  elderly  woman  with  a  broken  accent,  not  very 
tall,  and  she  is  pretty  fat.     I  wouldn't  say  fat,  but  she  is  medium  built. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Do  you  know  where  she  worked,  or  lived  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  She  lived  in  Miami  Beach;  I  don't  know  where  she 
worked. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Were  there  any  other  meml)ers  you  remember  as  mem- 
bers of  the  city  committee  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Ed  Waller. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  At  what  period  of  time  did  you  know  him  to  be  a 
member  of  the  city  committee  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  The  only  time  I  have  met  with  Waller  was  on  the  city 
committee,  and  it  was  clurino:  Smolikoff's  admission  at  the  Transport 
Workers  on  West  Flagler  Street,  and  that  is  where  we  held  our 
meetings. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Was  that  a  third  union  Smolikoff  was  identified 
with? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  SciiERER.  What  part  did  he  play  in  the  transport  workers 
union  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  I  would  say  he  organized  it. 

Mr.  SciiERER.  Were  there  any  other  unions,  while  we  are  on  this 
subject,  that  Smolikoff  had  anything  to  do  with? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Not  that  I  know  of. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  A^Hien  was  he  active  in  organizing  the  transport 
workers  union? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  It  must  have  been  around  late  1944,  1945,  somewhere. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Do  3^ou  know  whether  he  got  any  converts  to  the 
Communist  Party  from  those  imion«* 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7435 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  don't  know  liow  to  answer  that.  I  don't  know 
whether  he  g:ot  any  converts,  but  I  know  several  persons  frorii  that 
union  who  were  members  of  the  part} . 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Who  were  the}^  ? 

]Mr.  NiMMO.  "Waller,  for  example,  was  one. 

Mr.  ScELERER.  We  know  abont  him. 

Mr.  NiMMO.  A  fellow  known  to  me  by  the  name  of  Suggs,  or  Sug, 
an  elderly 

Mr.  KuNziG.  S-u-g? 

Mr.  Ni3iM0.  S-u-g,  or  S-u-g-s,  and  Lou  Popps,  a  Negro. 

David  Spicey,  another  Negro. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  They  all  were  acquainted  with  Smolikoff  ? 

Mr.  NiM]\ro.  lie  was  head  of  the  outfit,  as  far  as  I  knew.  He  or- 
ganized them. 

JNIr.  SciiERER.  They  did  not  get  into  the  party  until  after  Smolikoff 
organized  the  union,  did  they  ? 

Mr.  NisiMO.  That  is  where  I  met  them.  I  met  them  at  the  union 
office.    That  is  where  I  became,  acquainted  with  them. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  At  the  union  office  in  connection  with  union  meetings, 
or  Communist  Party  meetings  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  now.  I  don't  know  when  I  first  became  acquainted 
as  a  Communist.  I  became  acquainted  as  a  union  member,  they  used 
to  have  shop-steward  classes,  and  I  also  attended  them.  On  one  oc- 
casion I  received  a  call  from  Smolikoff,  I  think  it  was  on  a  Sunday, 
to  come  down  to  the  office,  and  I  went  down  there  and  T  met  Lou  Popps, 
and  we  went  in  a  car  with  a  group  of  other  men,  several  cars,  and 
we  went  to  a  home  out  in  the  southwest  section. 

I  remember  Ed  Waller,  Smolikoff,  Popps,  and  some  others  whose 
names  I  don't  remember,  and  myself,  and  ap])arently  they  were  wait- 
ing for  others  to  come,  when  there  was  a  telephone  call  and  Waller 
answered  the  telephone,  and  after  taking  the  call,  there  was  a  sort 
of  hush-hush  meeting  between  a  few  of  them,  and  Popps  and  I  were 
spirited  out  of  the  meeting. 

On  our  way  home,  the  driver  told  us  the  call  came  from  the  Klan, 
and  they  wanted  to  get  us  away  from  there  before  anything  hap- 
pened. 

Mr.  SciiERER.  Was  that  meeting  you  were  having  at  this  private 
home  a  union  meeting  or  Communist  meeting? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  It  was  a  Communist  meeting  we  were  going  to  have, 
but  it  never  materialized  in  our  presence.  A  white  fellow  drove 
Popps  and  I  away  from  the  place,  but  I  don't  know  whether  the  meet- 
ing ever  continued  or  not. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Was  Smolikoff  at  that  meeting? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  SciiERER.  I  am  asking  these  questions  because  as  Mr.  Chirdy 
pointed  out,  the  pattern  is  the  same  as  we  found  it  in  other  commu- 
nities where  individuals  like  Smolikoff,  who  are  functionaries  of 
the  Communist  Party  have  used  their  connections  in  various  unions 
to  obtain  converts,  in  an  effort  to  control  those  unions,  and  I  wanted  to 
see  whether  that  happened  in  this  area. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Mr.  Nimmo,  where  did  you  say  Communist  Party 
meetings  were  held  in  Miami,  the  city  committee  meetings  you 
attended  ? 


7436        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  NiMMO.  All  of  tliem  that  I  attended,  most  of  them  I  attended, 
were  held  at  the  CIO  office  at  730  West  Flagler  Street. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Union  Hall? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  How  did  they  differentiate  between  Communist  Party 
meetings  and  nnion  meetings  ?    Describe  that  exactly  as  it  took  place. 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Union  meetings  are  open  to  the  general  membership 
of  the  union.  The  other  meetings  were  just  sometimes  3,  sometimes 
4  or  5 ;  seldom  more  than  that.  I  don't  know  if  there  were  ever  more 
than  five  at  any  given  time. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Mr.  Witness,  in  a  closed  Communist  Party  meeting, 
there  isn't  the  slightest  chance,  is  there,  of  someone  who  is  not  a 
Communist,  innocently  wandering  in  and  taking  part  in  the  meeting  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  I  believe  there  is  a  slight  chance,  but  I  don't 
think  it  is  very  general,  because  I  remember  on  one  occasion  at  the 
headquarters  in  this  same  place,  where  someone  did  open  the  door 
and  come  in,  and  of  course  the  discussions  were  stopped  immediately, 
and  the  person  was  talked  to,  and  after  leaving  there  was  some  query 
as  to  who  left  the  door  open,  or  something  like  that. 

I  wouldn't  say  there  isn't  a  slight  chance. 

Mr.  Clardy.  When  a  person  who  is  not  a  Communist  and  wanders 
in,  he  is  not  welcome  in  the  fold,  so  to  speak? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Clardy.  And  if  a  person  is  not  a  Communist,  he  not  only 
would  not  be  welcome,  but  in  due  course  the  meeting  would  break  up 
or  he  would  be  escorted  from  the  meeting,  would  he  not  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO,  I  don't  know ;  I  should  say  he  would  be  escorted  from 
the  meeting.  I  do  think  they  would  not  carry  on  discussions  in  the 
presence  of  anyone  who  by  chance  happened  to  come  in. 

Mr.  Clardy.  If  you  were  not  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party 
and  got  into  a  meeting  of  Communists,  Communist  business  would 
not  be  discussed  at  that  time? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  was  the  physical  setup  ?  "Wliat  sort  of  meeting 
rooms  did  you  use  for  the  Communist  Party,  as  against  what  sort 
of  meetings  for  public  meetings  of  the  union? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  the  Negro  members  of  the  union  met  in  the 
Negro  district,  and  the  white  members  met  at  the  hall,  I  guess,  on 
Flagler  Street. 

Smolikoff  secured  for  me  the  same  place  we  held  our  meetings,  and 
also  the  Longshoremen's  Hall  for  holding  meetings  with  the  Negro 
workers.    So,  it  is  hard  for  me  to  tell  you. 

I  don't  know  what  goes  on  when  they  hold  meetings  for  the  whites, 
because  I  have  never  attended  them. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  Smolikoff  use  you  to  be  a  speaker  and  address 
Negro  members  of  the  union  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Kdnzig.  That  was  one  of  your  main  functions,  wasn't  it  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir ;  when  they  w^ere  organizing  the  workers. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  And  when  you  became  a  Communist  Party  member, 
you  met  and  arranged  these  things  with  Smolikoff'  in  the  Communist 
Party,  and  you  would  go  out  and  address  members  who  were  not 
members  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7437 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  wouldn't  say  I  met  Smolikoff  in  the  Communist 
Party ;  it  was  always  arranged  between  Smolikoff  and  I. 

Mr.  Clardy.  But  Smolikoff,  in  your  eyes,  as  you  told  us  earlier,  was 
the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  For  a  time  he  was  my  ideal. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Your  ideal  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  As  a  leader ;  yes,  sir.  He  appeared  to  me  to  be  a  very 
excellent  and  capable  leader,  and  was  doing  a  good  job  as  far  as  I 
knew  at  the  time  when  he  was  carrying  on  the  organizational  activity. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  You  said  at  one  time  he  was  your  ideal.  Did  you 
ever  change  your  mind  about  Smolikoff  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  in  a  sense ;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  ScHERKR.  What  caused  the  change  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  it  appears  over  a  period  of  time,  it  appears  as 
though  there  was  a  lot  of  bungling  in  his  efforts  with  the  union. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Isn't  it  a  fact  you  found  out  he  was  more  interested 
in  promoting  the  Communist  Party  than  he  was  the  activities  and 
welfare  of  the  union? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  I  would  like  to  answer  that  question  this  way, 
sir :  I  am  confident  he  was  all  interested  in  building  the  Communist 
Party,  but  I  think  he  was  just  as  much  interested  in  the  union,  for 
the  simple  reason  I  think  the  union  offered  him  the  opportunity  for 
doing  the  work  the  way  he  wanted  to  do  it — that  is  my  opinion. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  meant  it  gave  him  the  opportunity  to  promote  the 
ends  of  the  Communist  Party  by  working  for  the  union  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  And  meeting  with  a  broader  group,  in  a  collective 
manner. 

Mr.  Clardy.  We  are  familiar  with  that.  We  uncovered  it  in  hear- 
ings in  Michigan  where  the  Communist  Party  made  it  abundantly  clear 
in  their  own  language  they  regarded  the  seizing  of  control  of  unions 
of  paramount  importance,  and  they  were  instructing  all  their  leaders 
to  work  toward  that  end,  because  they  bluntly  said  in  the  event  of  war 
with  Russia,  they  wanted  their  men  in  a  position  to  cripple  the  ability 
of  this  Nation  to  defend  itself,  and  what  you  say  fits  in  the  pattern 
of  subversion  in  Michigan. 

Mr,  NiMMO.  I  was  severely  criticized  from  time  to  time  for  not 
being  able  to  recruit  members  from  the  laundry-workers  union.  As 
a  result,  if  they  felt  we  could  build  a  party  within  the  union,  we 
would  have  to  have  a  better  opportunity. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  You  were  criticized-for  not  recruiting  members  in  the 
Communist  Party? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  It  is  obvious  Smolikoff's  interest  in  the  union  was 
secondary  to  his  interest  in  the  party.  He  worked  for  the  union  and 
did  these  good  things  for  the  union  because  he  was  primarily  in- 
terested in  what  the  union  could  do  toward  building  the  party,  is 
that  a  correct  statement  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  It  sounds  correct,  but  I  can't  tell  you  exactly  what 
Charlie  Smolikoff  thought. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  I  thought  that  is  what  you  said. 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  am  going  to  tell  you  from  my  point  of  view,  and  if  I 
judge  him  from  my  point  of  view,  I  would  feel  a  little  bit  different 
from  you ;  I  would  feel  the  union  would  have  given  him  a  better  base 
from  which  to  build  a  party.     With  the  union  you  have  a  mass 


7438        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

organization  from  which  you  can  work,  control,  and  direct,  whei'eas 
witliout  tliat,  yon  can't. 

Mr.  SciiERER.  That  is  what  I  said,  but  you  said  so  much  better. 

Mr.  Clardy.  The  Chair  must  observe  you  two  are  in  substantial 
agreement;  in  fact  you  are  in  agreement,  but  you  used  different 
language. 

Proceed,  Mr.  Kunzig. 

Mr.  KuxziG.  You  were  giving  us  some  of  the  names  of  those  you 
knew  as  members  of  the  Communist  Party  City  Committee.  Would 
you  continue? 

Mv.  NiMMO.  I  am  about  lost  now. 

Mr.  Clardy.  We  sort  of  detoured  you  there.  Take  your  time  and 
get  back  on  the  track  again. 

Can  you  refresh  his  recollection  ? 

Mr.  ivuNziG.  Did  you  know  Carbonell,  Jose  Carbonell  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Would  you  describe  him?  Pie  testified  before  this 
group  the  other  day. 

JMr.  NiMMO.  Carbonell  is  a  Cuban  by  birth,  as  I  learned,  and  he 
is  a  cabinetmaker. 

iMr.  Kunzig.  And  you  knew  him  to  be  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  How  about  George  Nelson  ? 

Mr.  NiiNiMO.  George  Nelson,  I  later  found  out,  was  a  State  organizer, 
I  think.    I  first  met  him  as  a  Daily  Worker  representative. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  State  organizer  of  what? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Did  you  meet  with  George  Nelson  in  closed  Com- 
munist Party  meetings? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  How  about  Alex  Trainor  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Alex  Trainor  was,  I  believe,  prior  to  George  Nelson, 
State  organizer. 

Mr.  Kltnztg.  Of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes.  sir. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Did  you  knov\^  Homer  Chase? 

Mr.  NiM]\[o.  I  have  heard  that  name.  I  don't  know  if  I  should 
s«y  I  know  Homer  Chase.    It  is  possible  I  know  him. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  If  you  don't  know  him  as  a  member  of  the  Commu- 
nist Party,  I  ask  that  be  stricken  from  the  record. 

Mr.  ScHERi^R.  He  has  not  been  identified  ? 

Mr.  Kunzig.  He  has  been,  yes,  but  not  by  this  witness. 

Mr.  Clardy.  The  question  was  whether  he  had  been  identified  other- 
wise. 

Mr.  Scherer.  Mr.  Kunzig  said  he  had  been  identified. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Did  you  know  Foster  Robinson  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Foster  Robinson  was  a  Negro,  and  as  much  as  I  know 
of  him  is — I  don't  know  exactly  how  to  put  it,  an  unemployed  person 
who — let's  say  he  wag  just  '"a-man-about-town." 

Mr.  Kunzig.  You  knew  him  to  be  a  Communist 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Did  you  know  where  he  lived?  Could  you  describe 
him  at  all,  how  he  looked? 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7439 

Mr  NiMMO.  Well,  no ;  I  don't  really  know  where  lie  lived,  in  oenerai. 
I  knew  he  spent  some  nights  at  his  mother's  home,  I  think  somewhere 
on  14tli  Street,  near  Third  Avenue,  but  apparently  he  did  not  live 
there  because  I  don't  think  he  always  was  m  agTeement  with  the  rest 
of  his  family,  from  what  I  gathered,  and  he  was  always  m  hot  water. 
1  never  knew  of  any  permanent  residence  of  Foster's. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Do  you  know  where  he  is  today  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  believe  he  is  in  Tampa. 

Mr.  ScHEKER.  You  say  you  did  not  know  his  occupation  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir ;  I  didn't  think  he  had  one,  sir. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  he  was  on  the  payroll 
of  the  party  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Not  that  I  know ;  no,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Could  you  say  he  was  a  Negro,  for  identification 
purposes  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  know  Walter  Bishop  ?  .         .  . 

]Mr.  NiMMO.  Walter  Bishop  was  one  of  our  associates  in  the  inde- 
pendent group,  when  we  were  attempting  to  organize  the  laundry 
workers  union,  and  he  and  I  attended  several  meetings,  together  with 
Smolikoff.  As  far  as  I  know,  I  don't  really  believe  that  he  has  at- 
tended meetings,  but  I  don't  think  he  has  been  with  the  party  for  more 
than  a  year,  maybe  less,  but  he  has  attended  meetings  with  Smolikoff 
and  me. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  he  is  out  of  the  party  ? 
If  you  do,  we  would  like  to  know. 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  haven't  seen  him  in  several  years. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Was  Walter  Bishop  white  or  Negro  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Negro. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  know  Sam  Careouthers  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes. 

^Ir.  KuNziG.  Would  you  describe  Sam  Careouthers,  and  identify 
him  further,  if  you  can  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  can't  give  you  very  much  of  a  description  of  him. 
I  had  a  very  short  acquaintance  with  him,  but  he  was  a  man  of  about, 
say  150  or  155  pounds  in  weight,  in  my  opinion,  about  5  feet  8  inches, 
maybe  5  feet  7  or  8,  and  I  am  inclined  to  believe  he  was  in  some  way 
connected  with  the  transport  workers  union. 

It  was  at  the  union  hall  I  would  see  him,  but  I  never  knew  exactly. 
It  was  just  my  opinion  he  was  connected  with  the  union.  I  don't 
know  that. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  know  him  as  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party,  and  meet  with  him  in  closed  meetings  ? 

Mr.  Ni:M3ro.  Yes ;  we  met  in  closed  meetings. 

]Mr.  Clardy.  The  committee  has  a  considerable  amount  of  business. 
We  are  getting  toward  the  end  of  the  session  and  end  of  the  year. 

Before  we  recess  for  noon,  I  want  to  make  one  observation.  One 
of  the  witnesses  on  the  stand  has  made  a  suggestion  that  he  had  been 
identified  as  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  by  a  paid  witness. 
We  want  to  disabuse  the  idea  we  have  hired  witnesses.  We  have  no 
appropriation  for  that,  and  we  wouldn't  do  it  if  we  did. 

I  am  getting  tired  of  these  Communists  saying  that.  I  want  to 
blast  that  once  and  for  all,  and  the  papers  can  quote  us  on  that. 


7440        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF   FLORIDA 

I  am  reminded  by  our  investigator,  which  every  one  of  the  members 
fully  know,  as  with  a  Federal  court  witness,  our  witnesses  are  paid  the 
same  per  diem,  and  no  more. 

We  will  adjourn  until  2  o'clock  this  afternoon, 

(Thereupon  at  12:  11  p.  m.,  the  hearing  was  recessed,  to  reconvene 
at  2  p.  m.,  same  day.) 

AFTERNOON  SESSION 

(At  the  hour  of  2  p.  m.,  of  the  same  day,  the  proceedings  were  re- 
sumed, the  same  parties  being  present.) 

Mr.  Velde.  The  committee  will  be  in  order. 

Before  proceeding  with  the  witness,  Mr.  Counsel,  I  would  like  to 
acknowledge  the  fact  that  we  have  many  telegrams  and  letters  from 
various  people  in  the  Florida  area  and  the  southeastern  part  of  the 
area.  It  is  going  to  be  impossible  to  acknowledge  each  and  every  one 
of  these  telegrams  and  letters ;  but  I  do  appreciate  the  fact  that  you 
have  sent  these  letters  and  telegTams  and  that  you  have  given  us  your 
cooperation  and  courtesy.     Proceed,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mr.  Nimmo,  you  already  mentioned  various  people 
you  knew  to  be  members  of  the  Communist  Party  and  on  the  city 
committee  here  in  Miami  when  you  were  a  member  of  the  city  com- 
mittee, before  lunchtime;  and  as  I  was  going  through  the  names  I 
have  found  the  name  of  Lois  Baker.     Do  you  know  Lois  Baker  ? 

TESTIMONY  OF  JAMES  NIMMO— Resumed 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes,  I  do. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Describe  Lois  Baker;  how  you  knew  her,  and  how 
you  knew  her  to  be  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Nimmo.  I  knew  her.  She  is,  I  believe,  from  west  Florida; 
some  section  of  west  Florida.  I  met  her  on  occasions  in  Tampa.  I 
think  she  worked  very  closely  with  George  Nelson  or  that  was  my 
impression.     She  visited  Miami  on  one  occasion  at  least. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  know  her  to  be  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  ?     Did  you  meet  in  closed  party  meetings  ? 

Mr.  NiMMo.  Yes. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  was  the  function  of  the  party  or  the  gi'oup 
you  were  associated  with  in  connection  with  recruiting  other  members 
and  bringing  strength  to  the  party  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  they  always,  generally  emphasized  on  recruiting 
Negro  and  white  workers  into  the  party,  and  it  appears  as  though 
the  emphasis  was  especially  on  the  working  class,  white  workers  and 
Negroes. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  How  about  your  own  service  ?  Did  you  do  anything 
to  recruit? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No ;  not  a  single  member  has  been  recruited  by  me  from 
the  laundry  workers  or  otherwise.  I  mentioned  tliat  we  have  a  mem- 
bership that  has  grown  from  two  or  three  hundred  to  about  1,200 
in  the  height  of  the  season ;  and  in  the  summertime  our  membership 
would  vary  from  seven  to  nine  hundred;  and  not  a  single  laundry 
worker  was  recruited  to  the  party. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  By  yourself  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  don't  think  there  is  one  in  or  I  would  have  known. 
I  am  talking  about  the  Laundry  Workers'  International  Union.    As 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7441 

I  said  to  you  before,  Walt  Bishop  got  in  the  party  the  same  time  that 
I  did  through  information  of  Smolikoff. 

Mr,  KuNziG.  Did  you  ever  get  any  criticism  from  the  party  for  not 
recruiting  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Oh,  yes ;  quite  frequently  I  was  criticized  for  my  fail- 
ure to  recruit  members  from  the  ranks  of  my  union. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Did  you  ever  at  any  time  cooperate  with  the  Federal 
Bureau  of  Investigation? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  recently ;  yes. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  have  given  them  your  story  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  would  like  to  hear  now  about  a  very  important  sub- 
ject in  connection  with  the  efforts  of  the  Communist  Party.  You 
mentioned  the  Negroes  in  this  area.  You  were  familiar  with  what 
the  purpose  or  function  or  duties  of  the  Communist  Party  vv'ith  re- 
spect to  the  Negroes.     Would  you  describe  this. 

Mr.  NiMMO.  As  I  understood  it — or  understand  it — they  seemed  to 
seize  upon  every  opportunity  when  there  was  some  incident  of  some 
kind;  as  for  example,  I  might  mention  what  is  known  to  us  as  the 
Groveland  case  where  three  Negroes  were  involved  in  a  rape  trial; 
and  some  homes  were  shot  up  and  some  also  burned.  This  was  played 
up  very  largely  by  the  party.  Also,  there  was  another  case  with 
Oran  Johnson  who  attended  high  school  here  and  went  to  live  on  the 
west  coast;  and  who  killed  a  sheriff'  or  a  deputy  sheriff.  And  there 
were  other  incidents  where  the  party  seemed  to  seize  the  opportunity 
to  make  a  much  bigger  thing  out  of  it  than  it  should  have  been ;  and 
use  it  as  an  opportunity  to  gain  sympathy  of  the  Negroes  and  recruit 
them  into  the  party. 

I  think  moneys  were  raised  and  clothing  collected  to  help  the 
families  of  these  people,  and  this  certainly  gained  the  sympathy  of 
some  people.  A  meeting  was  held  of  Negroes  in  the  youth  center  in 
which  100  or  more  people  attended ;  and  I  think  a  reporter  was  there 
from  the  Miami  Herald.  I  know  all  these  people  felt  the  party  was 
doing  a  great  job  in  assisting  the  Negroes  and  a  very  fine  thing  they 
were  doing.  I  remember  questioning  this  in  one  or  more  of  the 
meetings. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  questioned  the  Communist  meeting? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes ;  I  didn't  feel  it  was  the  proper  thing  to  seize  every 
opportunity  whenever  anything  was  happening  to  the  Negro  to  make 
an  affair  of  it ;  and  never  attempt  ta  do  anything  so  far  as  the  other 
races  were  concerned.  This  had  a  one-sided  effect,  I  felt,  to  try  to 
gain  the  sympathy  of  the  negroes  to  draw  them  into  the  party. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  You  are  absolutely  right.  What  you  have  been  tell- 
ing us  here  today  has  been  told  to  us  by  Negroes  all  over  the  country. 
They  realized  that  the  Communist  Party  is  only  pretending  to  promul- 
gate the  rights  of  the  Negroes  in  order  to,  as  you  say,  attract  them  to 
the  party ;  and  they  use  this  means  constantly,  as  you  say,  to  gain  the 
sympathy  of  the  Negroes  and  to  attract  them  to  the  Communist  pro- 
gram. After  they  got  into  the  party  they  found  out  that  the  Com- 
munist Party  was  not  sincere  or  sympathetic  but  using  incidents  such 
as  you  mentioned  as  an  opportunity  to  strengthen  the  Communist 
Party.  Wliat  you  say  here  today  rings  true  and  has  been  heard  in 
every  section  of  the  country  by  this  committee. 


7442        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  Velde.  I  would  like  to  concur  with  the  gentleman  from  Ohio ; 
and  I  might  add  that  the  committee  is  releasing  at  the  end  of  the 
month  an  article  entitled  "The  American  Negro  and  the  Communist 
Party."  I  hope  that  people,  and  especially  the  colored  people  of  the 
country,  will  read  this  article.  Of  course,  it  wouldn't  do  any  harm 
for  the  white  people  to  read  the  same  article.  It  can  be  obtained  by 
writing  to  our  committee  the  later  part  of  this  month. 

Mr.  ScHEREK.  The  Connnunist  Party  follows  the  policy  I  have 
discussed  and  just  mentioned  insofar  as  the  Negro  is  concerned;  but 
is  doing  the  same  thing  with  reference  to  other  minority  groups  also. 
1  would  like  to  ask  an  important  question  following  the  ones  you  just 
had ;  and  that  is :  Within  your  personal  knowledge,  up  to  and  includ- 
ing 1950,  when  you  left  the  party,  did  many  Negroes  fall  prey  to 
the  Communist  idea  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  In  Miami;  there  were  not  enough  Negroes  in  Miami 
at  any  time  to  even  form  a  group.  As  a  result,  and  in  my  opinion,  that 
was  the  only  reason  I  was  in  the  section  committee.  There  was  no 
other  place  for  me.  When  Bishop,  formerly  mentioned,  was  in  the 
party ;  as  far  as  I  know  there  was  only  Bishop  and  I.  Bishop's  stay 
in  the  party  wasn't  very  long ;  possibly  a  year  or  less.  Then  I  knew 
Foster  Robinson ;  and  there  have  been  these  fellows  Popps  and  Spicey 
from  the  transport  workers.  But  as  far  as  I  can  remember  there  were 
never  any  meetings,  group  meetings,  of  Negroes.  I  don't  know  how  or 
where  Spicey  and  Popps  functioned.  Maybe  they  had  their  own  cell 
within  the  transport  workers  union  or  out.  But  there  never  was  a 
Negro  group  as  such  meeting  for  the  party. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  What  you  say  again  is  true.  Barbara  Hartle  testi- 
fied before  this  committee  after  she  was  sentenced  to  the  Federal 
penitentiary  and  had  broken  with  the  party.  She  told  us  the  Com- 
munist Party  recognized  it  was  not  successful  in  converting  Negroes 
to  the  Communist  cause  despite  their  best  etforts  and  the  best  tactics 
the  Communist  Party  could  muster. 

Mr.  Doyle.  May  I  ask  the  witness  wdiy  in  his  opinion  there  were 
never  group  meetings  of  the  Negro  Communists  while  apparently 
there  were  a  great  many  group  or  cell  Communist  meetings  by  whites  ? 
Wliat  explanation  do  you  have,  Mr.  Nimmo?  "Wliy  should  the  Com- 
munist Party  be  able  to  attract  groups  of  Communist  whites  and  get 
the  whites  and  yet  couldn't  get  the  Negroes  ?  Why  is  that  in  Florida  ? 
And  you  may  further  explain  to  me  the  question  of  looking  upon  or 
looking  to  your  friend  Charles,  as  you  call  him,  the  Communist  leader. 
You  recognized  him  as  the  Communist  leader,  and  he  wanted  you  to 
be  put  on  the  city  committee  before  you  had  ever  been  a  member  of 
the  Communist  group  and  in  fact,  you  have  never  been  a  member  of  a 
Communist  group.  With  all  those  favors  he  gave  you  in  the  past  two 
or  three  years  why  couldn't  you  succeed  in  getting  any  Negroes  into 
a  group  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  made  no  effort  to  recruit  Negroes.  It  may  sound  like 
opportunism  to  say  it,  but  it  was  expeditious  in  my  case.  We  were 
organizing  a  union  and  Smolikoff  was  helping  us.  At  first  I  didn't 
know  he  was  a  Communist.  When  I  found  out,  I  found  myself  going 
to  the  meetings  and  working  with  him.  Pie  really  impressed  me  as 
being  a  very  smart  man ;  and  he  was  very  helpful  in  many  ways,  but 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7443 

he  was  not  quite  clear  on  the  objectives  of  communism  as  he  would  from 
time  to  time  try  to  outline  it.  On  the  other  hand,  I  knew  that  there 
were  numerous  meetings  of  even  the  city  committee  that  I  didn't 
attend  or  wasn't  invited  to.  There  were  many  instances;  and  of 
course,  I  never  questioned  this  with  Charley  or  anybody  else.  I  held 
my  own  opinion.  I  was  invited  to  meetings  when  there  were  discus- 
sions on  Negro  problems  and  so  forth  and  so  on.  And  there  were 
other  meetings.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  after  Charley  was  ousted  from 
the  transport  workers  union  and  was  no  longer  around  the  transport 
quarters,  I  remember  only  3  meetings  I  attended  from  then  until  1950 ; 
and  on  2  of  them  there  was  only  Nelson,  myself,  and  Carbonell.  On 
two  or  three  occasions  Nelson  came  from  either  Jacksonville  or 
Tampa;  I  don't  know  which.  He  would  call  me  on  the  phone  and 
make  an  appointment  to  meet  us  at  diiJerent  places,  and  he  and  I 
would  sit  in  the  car  for  15  minutes  or  so.  I  know  he  didn't  come  to 
Miami  to  see  me.  So  each  time  there  was  another  meeting  I  wasn't 
called  in ;  and  I  mean  I  made  my  conclusion  on  this. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Do  you  mean  the  Communist  Party  was  practicing 
segregation  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  don't  want  to  put  it  that  way. 

Mr.  Doyle.  But  that  is  what  you  are  trying  to  tell  us. 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  want  to  say  they  called  me  in  on  meetings  only  when 
they  needed  me. 

INIr.  Doyle.  There  may  have  been  group  meetings  of  the  Communist 
Party  attended  by  Negroes  that  you  didn't  know  anything  about.  Is 
that  true  ? 

Mr.  NiMMo.  I  would  hardly  be  inclined  to  believe  that,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  am  inclined  to  believe  it  from  your  own  testimony. 
You  said  there  were  meetings  held  at  the  Negro  youth  center  that  were 
attended  by  100  whites  and  Negroes. 

Mr.  NiMMo.  Yes. 

Mr.  DoYT.E.  You  said  they  felt  the  party  was  doing  a  wonderful 
thing. 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Yes ;  but  I  want  to  say  this — and  I  may  not  be  able  to 
make  this  very  clear  to  you  or  the  committee  as  a  whole.  The  meetings 
at  the  youth  center  were  not  closed-door  meetings  but  open-door  meet- 
ings. There  was  an  atmosphere — T  mean  people  were  aware  of  the 
fact  that  the  operation  was  by  Communists  but  it  was  not  a  closed- 
door  meeting  and  the  people  going  were  not  Communists  by  any 
ineans. 

Mr.  Doyle.  The  reason  I  asked  the  details  of  this  meeting  and  other 
meetings  is  to  make  sure  the  same  thing  applied.  It  shows  the  meth- 
ods and  manner  of  the  Communist  Party  functioning.  That  is  the 
only  reason  I  am  taking  the  time  of  this  witness.  This  meeting  at  the 
youth  center  and  the  other  method  aided  to  possibly  feel  out  the 
people  to  later  recruit.     That  is  why  I  asked  you.     I  think  that  is  all. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  You  mentioned  in  the  last  few  questions  that  Smoli- 
koff  was  ousted  from  the  union.  "Will  you  explain  what  you  mean 
by  ousted  from  the  union. 

Mr.  NiMMO.  How  I  know  ?  I  think  it  was  Mike  Quill  of  New  York 
who  is  the  general  president  of  the  transport  workers  union;  and  I 
understood  he  fired  Smolikoff — at  least,  I  read  it  in  the  papers.  I 
don't  know  what  lead  up  to  it  but  I  know  he  was  tired  from  the  union. 


7444        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr,  KuNziG.  Do  you  believe  it  was  due  to  Communist  activities  or 
what  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  believe  I  read  both  Communist  activities  and  the 
misappropriation  or  mishandling  of  funds. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mr.  Nimmo,  you  got  out  in  1950.  Why  did  you  get 
out  of  the  party  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Of  course  I  became  disgusted  with  it  then,  as  I  said. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Wliy? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  The  first  time  I  got  the  urge  to  leave  was  during  the 
visit  of  one  Elizabeth  Gurley  Flynn  from  New  York  here  where  the 
meeting  was  held  at  the  beach.  Of  course,  I  was  not  aware  of  the 
meeting  or  know  anj^thing  about  it  until  after  the  incident.  At  the 
time  it  happened  the  meeting  was  held  at  the  beach  under  the  auspices 
of  the  Communist  Party.  It  was  a  fund-raising  drive  as  I  later 
gathered.  The  meeting  was  exposed  by — I  don't  know — by  news- 
papermen or  whom.  However,  something  developed  then — happened 
about  one-third  or  more  members  of  the  party  in  Miami  fled.  I 
thought,  under  those  circumstances,  it  was  rather  embarrassing  to 
belong  to  an  outfit  when  some  incident  like  that  occurred  and  every- 
body would  have  to  run  for  shelter. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  I  am  interested  in  why  they  would  have  to  run  for 
shelter  ? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Well,  that  is  what  I  Avant  to  know,  myself. 

Mr.  Clardt.  We  had  some  experience  with  that  in  the  last  week 
when  they  left  town.  Why  did  they  leave  town  when  Elizabeth 
Gurley  Flynn  came  to  town  ?  She  is  one  of  the  leaders  of  the  national 
Communist  Party.    Was  this  at  the  Edwards  Hotel  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  think  that  is  where  it  was.    That  is  what  I  heard. 

Mr.  Clardy.  The  newspaper  people  came  in  and  they  fled  in  all 
directions  ? 

Mr.  NiMMo.  Yes. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Newspaper  people  came  in  ? 

Mr.  Clardt.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  I  wouldn't  call  that  a  raid. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Then  you  got  out  of  the  party  after  this  incident? 

Mr.  Nimmo.  I  didn't  drop  out  immediately,  of  course.  I  began 
getting  out. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Before  you  go  any  further.  "Wliy  weren't  you  noti- 
fied of  that  meeting  ? 

Mr.  NiMMo.  I  wouldn't  know.  I  only  knew  after  the  exposure  that 
Elizabeth  Gurley  Flynn  was  in  town. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Was  that  because  Negi"oes  were  not  invited  to  the 
meeting  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  As  far  as  I  know,  none  were  invited. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Wasn't  one  of  the  arguments  that  the  Communist 
Party  used  that  it  was  opposed  to  segregation? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Very  definitely,  sir. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  Didn't  it  appear  to  you  they  were  against 
segregation  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Very  definitely,  sir. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  And  you  felt  after  the  two  incidents  described  here 
that  the  Communist  Party  practiced  segregation  by  the  last  meeting 
you  described  and  the  fact  that  3'ou  weren't  invited  to  the  meeting; 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7445 

and  that  certain  time  that  you  had  the  meeting  in  the  machine  with 
Nelson  and  so  forth  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  You  found  out  that  the  Communist  Party  didn't 
practice  what  it  preaclied  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Very  definitely.  From  that  time  on  I  might  add,  in  a 
period  of  2  or  3  years  I  attended  2  or  3  meetings.  I  am  sure  two  of 
them  were  with  Nelson  in  the  car;  and  on  another  occasion  Nelson 
picked  me  up  and  we  went  somewhere  in  the  northwest  section  to  a 
little  cabinet  shop  where  Jose  Carbonell  works  and  just  us  three  had 
a  discussion  there. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Wlien  you  left  the  Communist  Party,  you  left  it  in 
about  1950  or  4  years  ago.  Can  you  give  us  an  estimate  from  your 
own  personal  knowledge  what  the  condition  was  of  the  Communist 
Party  here  in  Miami  in  1950  when  you  left  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  In  my  opinion,  its  progress  was  at  a  standstill.  They 
didn't  seem  to  be  making  any  progress  at  all.  In  fact,  at  the  com- 
mittee meeting  there  would  always  be  some  discussion  about  dis- 
agreements in  different  groups;  especially  the  beach  group.  Leah 
Adler  represented  the  beach  group.  She  always  had  some  arguments 
to  offer  about  the  groups  there.  It  seemed  things  were  not  going  as 
they  should. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  From  1950  on,  what  the  Communist  Party  has  done, 
what  the  fronts  or  activities  were,  you  have  no  personal  knowledge 
of  at  all? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  None. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  No  further  questions. 

Mr.  Velde.  Any  questions,  Mr.  Scherer? 

Mr.  Scherer.  None. 

Mr.  Velde.  Mr.  Clardy? 

Mr.  Clardy.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  stated  you  were  present  at  a  meeting  where  $1,900 
was  raised  by  the  Daily  Worker.  By  what  method  and  how  was  the 
meeting  conducted  to  raise  $1,900  by  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Well,  it  was  on  Sunday  night  that  I  got  a  call  from 
Charlie.  I  would  say  it  was  around  6 :  30  or  7  o'clock.  He  asked  me 
to  come  down  to  the  office  at  the  CIO  Building  at  730  West  Flagler 
Street.  I  got  there  and  found  quite  an  audience.  There  wasn't  seat- 
ing capacity  for  the  people  there. 

Mr.  Doyle.  How  many  were  in  the  audience? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  would  estimate  there  might  have  been  about  150 
people  at  least. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Whites  and  Negroes? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No ;  I  was  the  only  Negro  there. 

Mr.  Doyle.  "\'V^iat  was  done  in  this  meeting  to  raise  this  money? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  There  were  talks  by  Smolikoff  and  others.  They  were 
raising  funds  for  the  Daily  Worker;  and  I  just  didn't  think  people 
should  be  giving  money  in  the  manner  they  gave  it  there.  One  par- 
ticular gentleman  gave  $500.  And  then  there  was  an  elderly  lady 
got  up  and  apparently  this  elderly  lady  gave  all  she  could  afford; 
and  this  gentleman  asked  her  to  give  her  age;  and  he  said  he  would 
give  $1  for  every  year  she  was ;  and  I  think  she  was  close  to  70  and 
he  matched  it.  Another  man  matched  him  and  the  final  collection 
was  around  $1,900. 


7446        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  Doyle.  Was  the  man  who  gave  the  $500  known  to  you  to  be 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  NiMMo.  No,  sir,  that  was  the  first  time  I  seen  him. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Have  you  identified  him  since  then  as  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir, 

Mr.  Doyle.  The  Daily  Worker  you  mentioned ;  was  that  the  Com- 
munist paper? 

Mr.  NiMMo.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Why  were  they  raising  money  for  the  Daily  Worker? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  They  said  the  Daily  Worker  was  badly  in  need  of 
funds  and  they  had  a  drive  on  to  raise  the  funds  for  the  Daily 
Worker. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  Smolikoff  preside  over  the  meeting? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  don't  exactly  remember  but  he  was  in  charge  of  prac- 
tically everything  there. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Why  did  you  join  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  told  j^ou  it  was  when  I  vras  working  witli  SmolikofI  in 
the  union  organization.  When  Charlie  first  began  to  give  me  pam- 
phlets on  conmiunism  and  talked  to  me  about  the  party  and  invited 
me  to  the  meetings.  At  that  time  I  thought  it  was  O.  K.  and  doing 
good  work. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  you  have  any  complaint  against  the  form  of  Amer- 
ican government  under  which  you  were  raised? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No  complaint  about  the  form  of  government  under 
which  I  was  raised. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  you  ever  have  any  com))laint  against  the  func- 
tioning of  the  union  in  which  you  were  one  of  the  leaders? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  you  feel  the  Communist  program  would  help 
you  as  a  union  leader  ? 

Mr.  NiMMo.  I  didn't  see  communism  at  the  time  as  an  evil.  I  began 
to  learn  that  as  I  went  along.  I  frankly  thought  it  was  a  good  thing 
to  be  honest  with  you.  I  didn't  think  there  was  anything  evil 
about  it. 

Mr.  Doyle.  This  city  committee  you  mentioned;  how  many  mem- 
bers were  on  it? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  There  were  never  more  than  five  at  any  time. 

Mr.  Doyle.  How  often  did  they  meet? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  That  is  another  thing  I  really  don't  know.  I  know 
this.  Sometimes  there  wouldn't  be  a  meeting  for  3  months;  and 
sometimes  there  might  be  1  every  month  for  a  period  of  time;  and 
then  1  in  3  months,  and  so  forth. 

Mr.  Doyle.  In  answering  the  question  of  my  distinguished  col- 
league, ]Mr.  Scherer,  when  he  asked  you  about  the  Communist  Party 
with  reference  to  the  Negro;  whether  or  not  the  Communist  Party 
helped  the  Negro  or  tried  to,  three  times  you  said,  "Very  definitely 
not."    Do  you  remember  so  saying? 

Mr.  NiMMo.  Yes,  1  do. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  you  ever  hear  the  Communist  Party  in  America 
propose  there  be  a  Negro  State? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No;  I  never  heard  tliat.  T  remember  reading  some 
literature  on  the  Cjuestion  of  self-determination;  but  1  never  heard  of 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7447 

the  Negro  State.    This  might  boil  down  to  the  same  thing  but  I  never 
heard  any  such  spoken  statement  as  that,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  Charles  Smolikoff  tell  you  it  was  one  of  the  policies 
of  the  Commmiist  Party  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Didn't  he  say  it  was  one  of  their  objectives? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir. 

JMr.  ScHEKER.  It  was  one  of  their  objectives  until  they  found  out 
it  was  impossible. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  Charles  Smolikoff  discuss  with  you  the  use  of  force 
and  violence  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  No,  sir,  I  never  heard  any  such  discussion  relative 
to  the  overthrow  of  government  by  force  or  violence.  Of  course,  I 
read  a  lot  about  it  but  I  never  heard  any  discussions  about  it. 

Mr.  Doyle.    You  say  j^ou  read  a  lot  about  it  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  In  the  ]:)apers  but  I  never  attended  any  meetings  where 
there  were  discussions  relative  to  that. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  have  been  in  this  room  several  hours  when  I  asked 
this  same  question  of  the  other  witnesses  that  I  am  now  about  to 
ask  you.  Under  Public  Law  601  of  the  79th  Congress,  this  committee 
was  assigned  the  responsibility  of  making  a  study  of  subversive 
acti^dties  and  propaganda  whether  they  originated  in  the  United 
States  or  elsewhere;  and  as  the  result  of  this  study  and  survey  to 
recommend  to  the  Congress  any  legislation  dealing  with  subversive 
activities  whether  it  came  from  the  Communist  Party  or  any  other 
subversive  group  or  person  or  program.  Have  you  any  suggestion 
to  make  to  us  as  Congressmen,  as  we  are  all  Congressmen  of  tlie 
United  States.  By  that,  I  mean  although  I  am  from  Los  Angeles 
County  in  California  and  these  other  gentlemen  are  from  other  sec- 
tions of  the  country,  we  are  still  your  United  States  Congressmen. 
INIost  people  don't  realize  that  we  are  interested  in  every  section 
of  the  country.  Do  you  have  any  suggestions  for  legislation  dealing 
with  the  Commmiist  Party  program  or  any  program  determined  to 
undermine  our  constitutional  f onn  of  government  ?  Have  you  thought 
about  that  subject  at  all? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  can't  say  that  I  have  thought  about  it  in  any  specific 
way;  but  I  want  to  say  this:  I  certainly  feel  that  the  Congressmen 
or  Congress  or  the  elected  officials  of  the  Government  of  our  country 
would  be  delinquent  in  their  duties  if  they  failed  to  legislate  laws  for 
the  protection  and  preservation  of  aur  democratic  way  of  life.  I  feel 
that  not  enough  can  be  done  in  trying  to  preserve  our  democracy. 

It  is  my  belief  that  exposing  conununism  is  one  of  the  surest  means 
of  putting  people  on  the  alert  as  to  the  danger  that  could  befall  our 
country  from  time  to  time  and  awaken  them  to  the  danger ;  and  pre- 
vent such  a  thing  from  taking  place.  However,  I  do  not  know  if  I 
can  add  in  any  way  any  specific  legislation  that  could  be  had.  I  think 
that  would  have  to  be  worked  out  by  you  gentlemen  in  Congress  with 
a  little  more  understanding  than  I  have,  sir. 

I  feel  this.  There  are  a  large  number  of  people  like  myself  who  got 
into  the  Communist  Party  and  were  anxious  to  get  out  but  hesitated 
to  do  so;  and  the  main  reason  for  this,  I  believe,  was  because  like  me, 
they  didn't  have  the  courage  to  stand  up  firmly  as  they  could  have 
done  and  should  have  done.  I  felt  the  same  way  when  I  first  found 
out  I  was  going  wrong. 


7448      coMMUisriST  activities  in  the  state  of  Florida 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  want  to  tliank  you  for  answering  the  question  so 
frankly ;  and  I  want  to  ask  you  to  use  your  fine  leadership  and  ability 
against  subversive  activities  and  propaganda. 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  would  be  very  glad  to,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Are  you  now  a  union  leader  ?  Are  you  now  an  elected 
official  of  any  union  group  ? 

Mr.  NiMMO.  Not  now,  sir. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  wish  you  would  put  your  fine  effort  in  that  area  and 
try  to  help  prevent  subversive  activities  in  organized  labor.  That 
is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Velde.  Mr.  Nimmo,  for  your  testimony  and  statements  here 
before  us,  your  Congress  and  Un-American  Activities  Committee 
would  like  to  express  their  gratitude  that  you  are  lending  your  fine, 
patriotic  service  to  your  country  and  by  giving  this  information  upon 
which  future  legislation  can  be  based.    You  are  now  discharged. 

Mr.  NiMMO.  I  want  to  thank  you  and  the  committee  for  your  very 
cordial  treatment  toward  me;  and  I  will  be  happy  to  serve  in  any 
capacity  at  any  time.  I  have  the  address  of  the  FBI  and  I  will  keep 
in  touch  with  them  whenever  they  need  me.  I  am  going  to  get  in 
touch  with  Mr.  Brautigam  over  there  and  cooperate  all  I  can. 

Mr.  Clardy.  These  hearings  are  very  tough  work;  and  what  my 
brother  said  here  is  right,  "It  is  what  we  are  getting  underpaid  for; 
not  paid  for." 

Mr.  Nimmo.  Thank  you,  sir. 

Mr.  Velde.  The  next  witness,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Lois  Baker. 

Mr.  Velde.  Would  you  raise  your  right  hand  and  be  sworn,  please  ? 

In  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  before  this  subcommittee, 
do  you  solemnly  swear  you  will  tell  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and 
nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  do. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Would  you  give  us  your  full  name,  please  ? 

TESTIMONY  OP  LOIS  BAKER,  ACCOMPANIED  BY  LEWIS  BLAKE, 

HER  COUNSEL 

Mrs.  Baker.  Lois  Baker. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Is  that  Mrs.  Lois  Baker? 

Mrs.  Baker.  Yes. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mrs.  Baker,  what  is  your  residence,  please? 

Mrs.  Baker.  Winter  Haven,  Fla. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  see  you  are  represented  by  counsel.  Would  counsel 
please  state  his  name  and  address  for  the  record  ? 

Mr.  Blake.  Lewis  Blake,  1105  Security  Building,  Miami,  Fla. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mrs.  Baker,  are  you  employed  in  any  way,  or  are 
you  a  housewife  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  am  a  housewife. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mrs.  Baker,  where  were  you  born  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  In  Florida. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Where  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  In  Citrus  County. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Would  you  tell  us  briefly  of  your  education. 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  am  a  high-school  graduate. 

Mr.  KuNziQ.  Where  ? 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7449 

Mrs.  Baker.  In  Citrus  County. 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  What  is  the  name  of  the  school  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  Inverness  High  School. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Have  you  ever  been  employed  in  any  work  at  any 
time  in  addition  to  being  a  housewife? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  have  not. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mrs.  Baker,  you  have  been  identified  by  both  Mr. 
Nimmo  and  Mr.  Waller  here  as  someone  whom  they  knew  to  be  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party.  Have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  fear  to  answer  that  question  because  I  fear  such  an 
answer  will  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Will  the  witness  please  speak  louder.  We  cannot 
hear  you  back  here. 

Mrs.  Baker,  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  as  such  answer  might 
incriminate  me  under  the  Smith  and  McCarran  Acts. 

Mr.  Clardy.  I  didn't  hear  that.  Would  you  read  that  back,  Miss 
Reporter,  real  loud  so  we  can  hear  it. 

(Reporter  reads  back  last  answer  above.) 

Mr.  Clardy.  Is  what  you  are  referring  to  the  Smith  Act ;  and  the 
McCarran  and  Wood  bill  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mr.  Waller  testified  he  knew  you  as  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  and  at  one  time  secretary  of  the  Communist  Party 
of  the  State  of  Florida.     Is  that  correct  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

(At  this  point  Mrs.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  KuNZiG.  Are  you  now  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Have  you  ever  at  any  time  contributed  funds  to  the 
Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Have  you  at  any  time  been  responsible  for  raising 
funds  for  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Were  you  secretary  to  district  25  of  the  Communist 
Party  in  the  State  of  Florida  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Velde.  Do  you  know  anything  about  district  25  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  of  the  State  of  Florida  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

Mr.  Velde.  It  appears  to  me  that  you  certainly  do  have  a  great  deal 
of  information  that  would  be  very  beneficial  to  your  country ;  and  as 
a  loyal  citizen  you  could  give  that  information  to  this  committee.  You 
were  secretary  to  the  Communist  Party  in  the  State  of  Florida  of 
district  25 ;  and  I  think  you  owe  a  duty  to  your  country  very  definitely 
to  give  us  information  about  the  dues  you  collected  as  secretary,  and 
minutes  of  the  meetings  you  took  in  the  Communist  Party  cell.  If 
you  want  to  be  loyal  to  your  country,  you  should  give  us  that  informa> 
tion.    Will  you  do  it? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Did  you  ever  occupy  any  official  position  of  any  kind 
in  any  branch  or  part  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 


7450        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

Mr.  Clardy.  I  wish  you  would  answer  higher.  I  can  see  your  lips 
moving  and  that  is  all  I  can  do.  You  have  been  identified  before  this 
committee  as  a  member  of  the  party  by  two  witnesses.  Were  you 
present  when  either  of  them  testified  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  was  present  at  one  time. 

(At  this  point  Mrs.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Ci^^RDY.  At  one  time.  You  heard  the  witness,  Mr.  Waller, 
identify  you  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  No  ;  I  did  not. 

Mr.  Cl.\Rdy.  Were  you  here  when  the  previous  witness  identified 
you? 

Mrs.  Baker.  Yes. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Was  the  identification  he  gave  and  the  details  he  gave 
to  us  in  any  way  untrue  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  appreciate  the  fact  that  the  committee  is  now 
giving  you  an  opportunity  to  say  anything  you  desire  in  repudiation 
and  not  in  agreement  with  what  the  previous  witnesses  have  said.  We 
are  affording  you  this  opportunity  to  say  anything  you  desire  in  con- 
nection with  the  previous  testimony.  Am  I  to  understand  that  you 
are  going  to  refuse  to  answer  on  that  subject  no  matter  how  many  ques- 
tions I  ask  or  how  I  frame  them  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

(At  this  point  Mrs.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Clardy.  In  other  words,  you  are  not  going  to  avail  yourself  of 
the  opportunity  of  speaking  freely  now.  Is  that  what  I  am  to 
understand  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  that. 

Mr.  Clardy.  That  is  hardly  an  answer  but  I  take  it  you  mean  you 
are  not  going  to  answer  anything.  The  question  was  asked  whetlier  or 
not  you  paid  dues  to  the  Conununist  Party.  I  want  to  ask  you  if  the 
Communist  Party  ever  paid  you  anything  for  services  or  what  have 
you? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Have  you  attended  any  Communist  Party  meetings 
within  recent  weeks  or  months  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Have  you  at  any  time  engaged  in  any  activity  of  any 
sort  that  might  be  interpreted  as  being  espionage  against  your 
Goverimient  ? 

Mrs.  Bx\ker.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  foregoing  grounds, 

Mr.  Clardy.  Have  you  at  any  time  been  a  member  of  any  organ- 
ization whose  avowed  aim  was  the  overthrow  of  this  Government  by 
the  use  of  force  and  violence  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  foregoing  grounds. 

Mr.  Clardy.  That  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Scherer.  Witness,  you  have  stated  that  you  refuse  to  answer 
these  questions  because  you  feel  that  the  answers  to  the  questions 
might  tend  to  incriminate  you.  I  believe  in  response  to  the  first  ques- 
tion you  said  the  answers  would  incriminate  you  under  the  Smith  Act 
and  the  McCarran  and  Wood  Act.  As  our  chairman  has  said,  we  be- 
lieve jou  have  a  great  deal  of  information  that  would  be  helpful  to  the 
committee.     Are  you  listening  to  what  I  am  saying? 


I 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7451 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  am  listening. 

Mr.  ScHEREK.  This  Congress,  shortly  before  it  fidjourned  in  August, 
passed  a  law  which  gives  us  the  right  to  grant  you  immunity  from 
prosecution.  I  for  one  feel  tlie  information  you  have  is  of  such  im- 
portance that  I  am  willing  to  recommend  granting  you  that  immunity. 
If  this  committee  is  willing  to  grant  sucli  immunity,  would  you  then 
answer  our  questions  ? 

]\Irs.  Baker.  Just  a  moment,  please. 

(At  this  point  Mrs.  Baker  conferred  witli  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  suggest  that  counsel  have  plenty  of  time  to  confer 
with  his  client  so  there  is  no  hurry  if  this  olfer  takes  him  by  surprise. 

Mr.  Velde.  Certainly.    That  has  always  been  our  policy. 

JSIrs.  Baker.  Does  that  immunity  protect  me 

Mr.  Clardy.  Would  you  speak  up  so  we  can  hear  you. 

Does  the  chairman  think  we  can  violate  our  own  rules  and  let 
counsel  state  what  the  answers  are  going  to  be?  I  can't  hear  the 
witness  at  all. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  I  am  not  agreeable. 

Mr.  Velde.  We  would  be  accused  of  being  unfair  to  the  others. 

Please  raise  your  voice  a  little  so  we  can  hear  what  you  say. 

Mr.  Baker.  Does  that  immunity 

]Mr.  Clardy.  Step  up  before  the  box  here  so  we  can  hear  you. 

Mr.  Velde.  The  reporter  will  come  u])  here,  too. 

(This  reporter,  the  witness  and  her  counsel,  stand  directly  before 
the  committee.) 

Mrs.  Baker.  Does  that  immunity  protect  me  from  both  State  and 
Federal  law? 

Mr.  Clardy.  I  can't  hear  you  now. 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  am  sorry. 

Mr.  Clardy.  I  don't  think  you  are  sorry  at  alh  I  think  you  are 
doing  this  deliberately.  You  can  talk  louder  than  that.  Especially 
if  you  are  angry  at  someone.  And  I  am  trying  to  rile  you  up  a  little 
so  you  will  speak  louder. 

Mr.  Velde.  Let  us  try  again.    What  is  the  question  ? 

Mr.  ScHERER.  The  question  is  quite  lengthy  and  is  partially  an  ex- 
planation of  a  statute.  As  I  said,  a  law  was  passed  by  this  Congress 
shortly  before  I  adjourned  in  August;  and  it  gave  us,  this  connnittee, 
with  the  approval  of  the  Federal  court,  the  right  to  grant  immunity 
from  prosecution  which  might  result  from  any  answer  you  might  give 
to  questions  propounded  to  you. 

What  I  am  saying  is  this :  If  this  Committee  should  grant  you  suck 
immunity,  would  you  then  give  us  the  information  which  we  knoAv 
you  have  concerning  the  activities  of  the  Communist  Party  in  the 
State  of  Florida?  The  reason  I  am  asking  this  question  is  that  you 
said  that  the  only  reason  you  refused  to  answer  the  questions  was 
because  you  have  some  fear  that  the  answers  given  us  might  cause  you 
to  be  prosecuted  and  you  might  suffer  some  penalties  as  a  result  of 
answering.  If  that  is  completely  eliminated,  would  you  answer  the 
questions  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  Does  that  immunity  extend  to  both  State  and  Federal 
prosecution  ? 

(At  this  point  Mrs.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Scherer.  In  my  opinion  it  does. 


7452        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF   FLORIDA 

Mrs.  Baker.  In  any  prosecution  whatsoever  in  any  way  ? 

(At  this  point  Mrs.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  ScHERER.  In  my  opinion  it  would. 

(At  this  point  Mrs.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Velde.  You  may  step  aside  for  more  privacy,  if  you  wish. 

Mr.  Blake.  Thank  you,  sir. 

Mr.  Velde.  There  will  be  a  short  recess. 

(A  recess  is  declared.) 

Mr.  Velde.  The  committee  will  be  in  order. 

Mrs.  Baker.  From  talking  with  my  attorney,  he  doesn't  feel  like 
fhis  committee 

Mr.  Velde.  It  is  not  what  he  feels  about  it  but  what  you  feel. 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  feel  that  this  committee  cannot  prevent  the  State 
prosecution.    So,  therefore,  I  refuse  to  answer  the  questions. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  I  really  didn't  hear  all  of  the  answer.  Would  you 
repeat  the  answer  ? 

Mrs.  Baker.  From  the  discussion  with  my  attorney,  I  feel  and  he 
feels  that  this  committee  cannot  prevent  the  State  from  prosecuting. 
You  have  no  control  over  the  State  prosecuting;  and  I,  therefore, 
refuse  to  answer  the  questions. 

Mr,  ScHERER.  That  is  not  exactly  my  question.  My  question  is: 
If  you  were  granted  immunity  so  you  couldn't  be  prosecuted — if  you 
Mere  granted  immunity  so  there  would  be  no  prosecution  from  either 
the  State  or  the  Federal  Government,  would  you  answer  the  questions? 

Mrs.  Baker.  Yes. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  All  right.     That  is  all. 

Mr.  Chairman,  in  view  of  the  witness'  answer,  I  wish  to  state  at  this 
time  that  at  the  next  executive  committee  meeting  of  this  committee 
I  will  recommend  that  we  invoke  this  statute,  which  I  believe  will  be 
invoked  for  the  first  time.  I  will  move  that  the  committee  take  such 
steps  necessary  to  secure  the  approval  of  the  Federal  court  and  grant 
this  witness  immunity  under  the  statute. 

Mr.  Velde.  Certainly,  the  Chair  concurs  with  that;  and  I  would 
seriously  recommend  to  the  State  court  that  if  this  witness  will  give 
us  her  testimony  that  they  see  to  it  that  she  is  granted  immunity. 
I  think  until  we  decide  these  matters,  we  should  dismiss  this  witness ; 
but  she  is  still  under  subpena. 

The  committee  will  be  in  executive  session  now . 

(Thereupon,  the  committee  left  the  hearing  room  to  enter  executive 
session  at  3  :  15  p.  m.,  and  returned  in  10  minutes.) 

Mr.  Velde.  The  committee  will  be  in  order. 

Witness,  the  committee  has  decided  to  continue  your  testimony  for 
the  present  time  and  take  account  under  the  statute  we  have  been  dis- 
cussing. So,  you  are  dismissed  at  this  time  under  subpena  of  the 
committee. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Perhaps  we  should  make  a  brief  statement  and  say 
that  the  statutory  procedure  must  be  followed  before  immunity  can 
be  granted  out  of  the  committee  with  a  petition  before  the  court.  So, 
it  will  be  some  time  before  you  hear  from  the  committee. 

Mrs.  Baker.  I  understand. 

Mr.  Velde.  The  next  witness,  Mr.  Counsel. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Harvey  Baker. 

Mr.  Velde.  Will  you  raise  your  right  hand  and  be  sworn. 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7453 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  testimony  you  give  here  before  this 
committee  this  afternoon  will  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth  and  nothing 
but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  do. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  State  your  full  name,  please,  sir. 

TESTIMONY   OF   HARVEY    G.    BAKER,    ACCOMPANIED   BY   LEWIS 

BLAKE,  ESQ.,  HIS  COUNSEL 

Mr,  Baker.  I  don't  know  whether  you  are  going  to  be  able  to  hear 
me  any  better  than  my  wife. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  can  hear  you.     Your  full  name,  please. 

Mr.  Baker.  Harvey  G.  Baker. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  What  is  your  address  ^ 

Mr.  Baker.  Winter  Haven,  Fla. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Are  you  related  in  any  way  to  the  previous  witness  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  am  her  husband. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  When  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  Florida;  Daytona  Beach. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  When? 

Mr.  Baker.  1910. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Give  us  a  brief  resume  of  your  education. 

Mr.  Baker.  High  school. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Where  did  you  graduate? 

Mr.  Baker.  Daytona  Beach. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  And  your  employment? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  am  a  sign  painter  and  electrician  or  electrical  worker. 
Actually  you  don't  start  that  way. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Are  you  in  electrical  work  now  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  Yes. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Do  you  have  a  store  of  your  own  or  do  you  work  for 
somebody  else  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  am  employed. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  By  whom  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  want  to  state  that  I  am  going  to  invoke  the  fifth 
amendment ;  and  I  am  going  to  do  it  so  the  questions  won't  implicate 
me. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  That  was  a  simple  question  I  asked  now.  By  whom 
are  you  employed? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  am  employed  by  Swift  &  Co. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Where? 

Mr.  Baker.  In  Polk  County;  the  county  of  my  residence. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Now,  you  were  identified  by  Mr.  Waller  2  days  ago 
as  someone  he  knew  to  be  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party.  Was 
lie  correct  in  that  identification  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  am  refusing  to  answer  on  the  grounds  of  the  fifth 
amendment.     I  will  give  you  a  more  formal  statement,  if  you  like. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  I  think  your  answer  is  complete  enough.  Have  you 
been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  Mr.  Baker? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  am  answering  that  I  refuse. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  You  refuse  to  answer  for  the  same  reasons? 

Mr.  Baker.  Yes. 


7454        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  Kttnzig.  Are  yon  now  at  this  moment  as  yon  sit  in  this  court- 
room in  Miami  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  for  the  same  reasons. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Were  you  ever  connected  with  the  shipbniklers  union? 

JNIr.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer.  It  mij>;ht  tend  to  form  a  link  or 
chain  of  evidence. 

Mr.  Ktjxzig.  And  it  might  incriminate  you  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  It  might  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mr.  Waller  said  he  knew  Harvey  Baker,  and  when  he 
did  he  was  executive  secretary  of  local  82  in  Jacksonville,  Fla.,  of 
the  shipbuilders  union.     Is  that  statement  true? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Did  you  live  in  Jacksonville,  Fla.,  at  one  time? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  decline  to  answer  the  question  on  the  chain  of  evi- 
dence possibility. 

Mr.  Velde.  Witness,  there  is  no  possible  way  in  answering  that 
question  it  will  incriminate  you.  You  are  directed  to  answer  the 
question. 

Mr.  Baker.  I  would  like  to  read  you  my  answer.  I  refuse  to  an- 
swer that  question  because  I  fear  such  an  answer  might  furnish  a  link 
in  a  chain  of  evidence  that  could  be  used  to  incriminate  me  under  the 
Smith  and  McCarran  Acts,  and  I  therefore  wish  to  avail  myself  of 
the  privileges  afforded  under  the  fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution 
of  the  United  States. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Velde.  Have  you  ever  been  engaged  in  any  activities  of  any 
nature  as  under  the  Smith  Act,  such  as  overthrowing  the  Government, 
and  so  forth  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  Mr.  Waller  went  on  to  testify,  "Subsequently  he  went 
to  work  for  the  FTA."  That  is  the  Agricultural,  Food  and  Tobacco 
Workers.     Is  that  true  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer.  That  can  become  a  link  in  a  chain 
of  evidence. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  I  ask  the  chairman  to  direct  the  witness  to  answer  the 
question. 

Mr.  Velde.  That  is  certainly  no  incriminating  evidence.  You  are 
directed  to  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  Baker.  My  answer  is  the  same  as  I  just  read. 

Mr.  Velde.  In  other  words,  you  refuse  to  answer.  I  realize  the 
witness  has  counsel  but  I  want  to  call  it  not  only  to  your  attention 
but  to  counsel's  attention  that  there  have  been  many  witnesses  cited 
for  contempt  of  Congress  for  refusing  to  answer  questions  that  in  no 
way  incriminated  them.  Certainly,  I  would  be,  and  my  colleagues 
too,  for  citing  you  for  contempt  if  you  refuse  to  answer  questions  that 
will  not  incriminate  you. 

Mr.  Baker.  I  have  heard  of  the  case  of  Rogers  v.  The  United  States 
Government.  Someone  waited  too  long  to  invoke  the  fifth  amendment 
and  found  themselves  in  worse  trouble  than  if  they  had  spoken.  I 
want  it  that  way. 

Mr.  Velde.  The  Rogers  case  was  a  very  different  situation  than 
what  we  are  asking  you  about;  residence.  I  am  asking  you  again; 
Will  you  tell  us  if  you  ever  resided  in  Jacksonville? 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7455 

Mr.  Baker.  Can  you  explain  to  me  the  materiality  of  the  question 
in  hand? 

Mr.  Clardy.  Mr.  Chairman,  direct  the  witness  to  answer  the 
question. 

Mr.  Velde.  I  certainly  shall  direct  the  witness  to  answer  the  ques- 
tion. The  committee  decides  what  questions  are  material  or  im- 
material. 

Mr.  Baker.  I  say  I  decline  to  answer.  The  answer  might  furnish 
a  link  in  a  chain  of  evidence. 

Mr.  ScHERER.  I  would  like  to  state  at  this  point  that  I  would  like 
JNIr.  Kunzig  to  read  the  last  question  or  restate  it  with  regard  to 
employment, 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Mr.  Baker,  did  you  ever  work  for  the  Food,  Tobacco 
and  Agricultural  Workers  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  Scherer.  Now,  direct  the  witness  to  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  Velde.  I  see  no  possible  way  that  you  could  incriminate  your- 
self under  the  constitutional  privilege.    Answer  the  question. 

Mr.  Baker.  I  am  afraid  it  might  furnish  a  link  in  a  chain  of 
evidence. 

(At  this  point  JNIr.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  VELnE.  Let  me  get  you  straight.  Is  that  the  only  grounds  you 
have  upon  which  to  base  refusal  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  don't  see  any  choice  but  to  read  by  statement  again. 
I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  because  I  fear  that  such  an  answer 
might  furnisli  a  link  in  a  chain  of  evidence  that  might  be  used  to 
incriminate  me  under  the  Smith  and  McCarran  Acts.  Therefore,  I 
wish  to  avail  myself  of  the  privilege  afforded  by  the  fifth  amendment 
of  tlie  Constitution  of  the  United  States. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Mr.  Waller  went  on  to  sny  that  you  were  approxi- 
mately between  40  and  45  years  of  age;  "a  medium  height  and  skinny- 
built  guy,"  and  weighing  approximately  150  pounds.  That  was  at  the 
conclusion  of  tlie  testmony  Mr.  Waller  gave  us. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Isn't  that  an  accurate  description  of  you  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  think  he  overestimates  my  age. 

Mr.  Clardy.  How  much  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  Tlie  testimony  will  show  that  I  don't  remember. 

Mr.  Clardy.  How  old  are  you  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  am  44. 

jNIr.  Scherer.  Didn't  Mr.  Waller  know  you  well  enough  to  judge 
j'^our  age? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  that. 

(Mr.  Baker  at  this  point  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Have  you  at  any  time  been  engaged  in  any  espionage 
activities  at  any  time? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  Are  you  now  engaged  in  any  Communist  Party 
espionage  activities  against  the  United  States  of  America? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  that.     It  might  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Kunzig.  I  have  no  further  questions.^, 

Mr.  Scherer.  Witness,  is  your  wife  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party? 


7456        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  that.  By  your  own  rules  I  am  en- 
titled not  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Clardy.  Our  own  rules  do  not  permit  you  to  use  that  objection ; 
but  anyway  you  are  not  ^oing  to  answer  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  would  like  to  give  a  better  reason.  It  might  tend  to 
incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Clardy.  You  only  invoke  the  fifth  amendment  as  it  applies  to 
you? 

Mr.  Baker.  That  is  right;  and  I  am  doing  it. 

Mr.  KuNziG.  No  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Mr.  Baker,  when  you  are  through  conferring  with  your 
counsel. 

Mr.  Baker.  All  right. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  am  always  glad  to  have  a  witness  do  that.  I  would 
like  to  ask  you  a  question  or  two.  You  said  under  the  Smith  Act,  as 
I  understood  you,  you  might  form  a  chain  of  evidence. 

Mr.  Baker.  I  was  referring  to  the  Smith  and  McCarran  Acts. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Have  you  read  those  acts  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  am  answering  partly  on  the  advice  of  counsel. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  portion  of  the  Smith  and  McCarran  Acts  were 
you  referring  to  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  would  be  glad  to  have  my  lawyer  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  am  asking  you.  Your  lawyer  cannot  be  the  witness. 
You  are  the  witness. 

Mr.  Baker.  I  will  speak  the  law  then. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  Just  a  minute.  At  this  time  are  you  familiar  with 
the  Smith  and  McCarran  Acts  so  you  can  answer  accurately  what 
provisions  you  are  relying  on ;  or  are  you  making  a  statement  because 
your  lawyer  told  you  to  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  understand,  or  I  have  an  opinion,  that  the  Smith  and 
McCarran  Acts  made  certain  things  illegal  or  felonious  so  that  I  can 
be  put  in  jail  where  the  questions  are  unfair  to  me. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  heard  our  distinguished  chairman  relate  that  that 
act  only  applied — just  a  minute.  Counsel.  Let  me  talk  to  your  wit- 
ness. The  act  only  applied  to  teaching  or  advocating  the  use  of  force 
and  violence  for  the  overthrow  of  our  Government. 

Mr.  Baker.  I  believe  the  law  is  quite  inclusive.  It  even  includes 
association. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Have  you  read  the  law  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  have  read  reports  in  newspapers  and  things  like  that. 

Mr.  D0YI.E.  Where  else  besides  the  daily  newspaper  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  don't  know. 

(Mr.  Baker  at  this  point  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  Just  a  minute.  Counsel,  please,  when  you  are  finished. 

Mr.  Velde.  He  has  the  right  to  confer  with  counsel. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Baker.  Do  you  want  me  to  refer  back  to  that  question  or  to 
proceed  ? 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  ;  what  is  it  counsel  told  you  ? 

Mr,  Baker.  My  counsel  advised  me  there  is  not  a  proper  predicate 
for  that  question. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Not  a  proper  predicate?  Let  me  see,  are  we  in  gram- 
mar school  here  ? 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7457 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Blake  conferred  with  Mr.  Baker.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  mean  there  is  not  sufficient  foundation  laid.  Is 
that  what  you  are  getting  at?  Of  course,  counsel  is  not  permitted  to 
address  the  committee.  This  is  not  a  court  of  law.  We  are  not 
bound  by  the  laws  of  evidence.  We  are  not  required  to  ask  questions 
that  lay  the  groundwork  for  foundation  before  we  ask  the  question. 
You  know  that.     This  is  an  investigation,  not  a  court  of  law. 

Mr.  Baker.  But  I  am  bound  by  the  law. 

Mr.  Doyle.  You  are ;  and  so  am  I ;  but  this  is  not  a  court  of  law. 
You  volunteered  the  statement  that  you  read  about  the  law  in  the  news- 
paper.    In  what  newspaper  did  you  read  about  it  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  it  may  tend 
to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Let  me  see  if  I  understand  your  answer.  I  asked  you 
in  what  newspaper  you  read  about  the  Smith  and  McCarran  law  and 
you  answered  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  you.  I  ask  the  chairman 
to  direct  the  witness  to  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  Velde.  I  don't  see  any  reason  why  reading  any  of  our  great 
American  newspapers  would  tend  to  incriminate  you  at  all.  You  are 
directed  to  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  Baker.  I  regret  I  have  to  so  often  refer  to  this  answer ;  it  might 
furnish  a  link  in  the  chain  of  evidence. 

Mr.  Doyle.  To  merely  give  the  name  of  some  American  newspaper 
might  in  someway  incriminate  you  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  That  is  what  I  intend  to  imply. 

Mr.  Doyle.  What  newspaper;  daily  newspaper  do  you  read  as  a 
matter  of  habit  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  Can't  you  answer  that  without  conferring  with  your 
lawyer  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  read  the  Tampa  Tribune. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Is  that  the  only  newspaper  you  read  ?  "V^^iat  I  am  try- 
ing to  get  at  from  you  is  an  honest-to-God  answer ;  for  a  frank  answer. 
What  newspaper  did  you  read  this  in  ? 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  I  am  not  trying  to  trip  you  or  impeach  you.  I  am 
trying  to  get  an  honest,  frank,  American  answer ;  that  is  all. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Baker.  I  can  restate  what  I  said.     I  read  the  Tampa  Tribune. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Is  that  where  you  read  the  article  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  don't  know. 

Mr.  Doyle.  How  long  ago  did  you  read  the  article  on  which  you 
are  relying  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  don't  know. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Do  you  get  any  other  newspapers  to  which  you  sub- 
scribe that  come  into  your  home  ? 

Mr,  Baker.  I  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Do  you  get  the  Daily  Worker  or  the  Peoples'  Dailv 
World?  ^  ^ 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Baker  conferred  with  Mr.  Blake.) 

Mr.  Doyle.  T^t  me  ask  you  a  frank  question.  Isn't  it  true  that 
you  might  have  read  about  the  Smitli  and  McCarran  Acts  when 
you  were  reading  the  Daily  Worker  or  the  Peoples'  Daily  World  or 
some  other  Communist  literature? 


7458        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

Mr,  Baker.  I  decline  to  answer  tliat  on  the  ground  it  might  tend 
to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Are  you  the  f atlier  of  any  children  ? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  think  I  can  answer  that  for  you;  yes. 

Mr.  Doyle.  Are  you  going  to  plead  the  same  way  on  that? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  might  question  the  relevancy  of  the  question. 

Mr.  Doyle.  The  relevancy  of  the  question  is,  sir 1  am  going  to 

ask  you  again  and  from  the  answer  to  that  question  will  be  another 
question  which  will  be  relevant. 

Mr.  Veldk.  lie  did  answer.     He  said,  "Yes." 

Mr.  Doyle.  Have  those  children  so  far  attended  any  Connnunist 
classes  with  your  knowledge  and  permission? 

Mr.  Baker.  I  decline  to  answer. 

Mr.  Doyle.  In  other  words,  you  can't  answer  frankly  as  an  Ameri- 
can father  whether  or  not  you  allowed  your  children  to  go  to  Com- 
munist Party  classes. 

Mr.  Baker.  I  decline  to  answer  that  too. 

Mr.  Doyle.  No  further  questions. 

Mr.  Velde.  Any  further  questions,  Mr.  Counsel? 

Mr.  KuNziG.  No,  sir;  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Velde.  I  wnsh  to  say  that  I  am  very  much  disai)pointed;  and 
the  other  committee  members  are  very  much  disappointed  in  your 
refusal  to  give  information  about  the  activities  in  the  Communist 
Party.  I  think  you  should  go  home  tonight  and  think  this  problem 
over.  If  you  are  a  loyal  American  citizen,  which  I  doubt  very  much; 
you  will  come  forward  and  give  the  answers  to  tlie  questions  which 
we  know  you  have.    You  are  dismissed. 

Mr.  Velde.  Any  f ui-ther  witnesses,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  KuNziG.  No  further  witnesses,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Velde.  With  my  colleagues,  let  me  say  on  behalf  of  the  com- 
mittee that  Ave  owe  a  lot  to  various  people  in  the  State  of  Florida. 

May  I  have  order,  please. 

First  of  all,  I  would  like  to  say  to  this  physical  audience  present 
that  you  have  been  veiT  attentive  and  very  orderly ;  and  for  that  we 
are  thankful.  In  many  places  we  have  gone  throughout  the  country 
we  have  experienced  a  lot  worse  treatment  so  far  as  we  were  concerned 
because  the  audiences  were  filled  witli  Connnunists  and  Connnunist 
sympathizers.  It  is  apparent  to  me  that  there  are  no  Communist 
sympathizers  in  this  audience  today. 

Next,  we  have  been  afforded  courteous  treatment  by  all  the  citizens 
in  this  area,  with  the  exception  of  some  of  the  witnesses  who  appeared 
here;  and  we  are  especially  appreciative  to  two  judges  down  here — 
Judge  Holland  and  Judge  Whitehurst.  I  understand  that  in  order 
to  make  this  courtroom  available  to  us  for  these  hearings  they  had  to 
use  another  smaller  room  for  their  own  courtroom  work.  We  have 
been  most  courteously  treated  by  Mr.  Green,  superintendent  of  the 
building;  and  Marshal  Hickson  who  preserved  order;  and  J.  P.  Adams 
and  Mr.  Mallick  for  order  in  the  courtroom.  Thanks  for  the  assist- 
ance of  the  Honorable  James  L.  Guilmartin,  TTnited  States  district 
attorney  for  the  southern  district  of  Florida;  and  the  bar  association 
for  cooperating  with  us  in  obtaining  counsel  for  two  witnesses  who 
were  unable  to  obtain  counsel  of  their  own.  And  may  we  praise  the 
television,  newsreel,  and  newspaper  men  who  have  given  us  such  fine 
and  courteous  treatment.    For  that  we  are  thankful. 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7459 

I  want  to  particularly  thank  those  witnesses  who  came  forward  to 
testify.  It  takes  a  lot  of  courage  to  come  forward  and  give  your  story 
of  Communist  Party  connections.  I  want  you  to  understand  that  we 
investigate  other  things  beside  the  Communist  Party ;  but  communism 
is  the  present  danger. 

As  m}^  last  act  as  chairman  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  I  want  to  tliank  my  good  friends  who  came  down  to  be  on 
these  hearings,  mj  colleagues  here,  for  the  fair  treatment  they  ex- 
tended to  me  and  the  spirit  of  cooperation  they  have  shown  to  best 
operate  as  a  nonpartisan  committee.  As  you  realize,  if  we  engaged 
in  partisan  politics,  it  would  be  very  favorable  to  the  Soviet  Govern- 
ment and  the  Communist  Party. 

I  want  to  say  this.  I  do  feel  there  is  still  a  hard  core  of  Communist 
Party  members  operating  in  the  State  of  Florida.  However,  the 
situation,  I  feel,  is  not  as  bad  in  the  State  of  Florida  or  any  place 
in  the  Southeast  as  it  has  been  in  other  parts  of  the  country  in  which 
we  held  hearings.  Your  success  is  evidenced  in  this  area  a  great  deal 
by  your  interest  in  combating  a  communism  in  all  its  forms  of  sub- 
version. We  mentioned  awhile  ago  that  we  are  getting  out  to  the 
public  an  artcile.  The  American  Negro  and  Communism ;  and  we  have 
other  literature  available  to  those  interested  in  what  the  United  States 
Government  and  Congress  is  doing  to  overcome  subversion ;  and  for 
those  of  you  who  are  particularly  interested  in  learning  more  about 
the  various  threats  to  our  Government  through  subversion,  you  are 
invited  to  write  in  to  the  committee  for  various  pamphlets  and  other 
information  we  have  available  to  you. 

Let  me  say,  with  the  exception  of  the  executive  meeting  which  will 
deal  with  the  business  of  the  committee  to  be  held  right  after  we 
adjourn  here.  I  will  have  nothing  more  to  do  with  the  operation  of 
the  committee  other  than  to  act  as  ranking  Republican  member  of  the 
committee  next  year.     I  thank  you. 

Mr.  Clardy.  I  would  particularly  like  to  mention  that  today  as 
1  left  the  building  at  noon  to  walk  over  to  the  place  I  was  lunching, 
a  citizen  came  up  to  me  and  suggested  that  we  should  call  to  your 
attention  the  fact  that  when  a  member  of  the  bar  association  appears 
on  behalf  of  a  witness,  he  becomes  identified  with  the  member  of  the 
Communist  party.  No  inference  should  be  drawn  that  an  attorney 
is  doing  anything  improper  or  on  behalf  of  the  members  of  the  Com- 
munist Party. 

All  the  members  of  the  committee,  with  the  exception  of  one,  are 
attorneys.  "We  know,  as  attorneys,  we  are  charged  with  the  duty  of 
representing  anyone  who  asks  our  services.  These  attorneys  ap- 
peared here  today  as  officers  of  the  court  and  to  do  what  any  attorney 
generally  would  do  Avhen  his  services  are  souglit.  I  am  underscoring 
that  because  this  lady  who  came  up  to  me  had  overheard  a  conversa- 
tion that  was  strictly  condemning  an  attorney  who  a])peared  here. 
When  an  attorney  is  doing  what  he  is  charged  with  doing  under  his 
oath  of  office  that  does  not  mean  that  he,  himself,  is  sympathetic  with 
the  cause  of  the  Communist  Party. 

That  raises  a  point.  I  agree  with  the  local  judge  for  disbarring 
an  attorney  j^i'i^cticing  in  this  area  and  making  it  clear  that  no  at- 
torney can  possibly  be  a  member  of  the  Comnnniist  Party  and  be 
true  to  his  oath  as  a  member  of  the  bar.  Any  attorney  who  takes  the 
fifth  amendment,  in  the  opinion  of  the  court,  when  asked  questions 


7460        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

as  to  membership  in  the  Communist  Party  is  doing  something  in- 
compatible with  his  oath ;  and  makes  it  impossible  for  him  to  be  an 
honest  officer  of  the  court.  We  have  three  such  recommendations  on 
three  members  of  the  bar  in  my  own  State ;  and  I  have  called  the  at- 
tention to  the  association  of  the  case  I  have  referred  to  in  this  State 
versus  Sheiner. 

Something  was  said  by  a  witness  the  other  day.  This  witness  said 
something  along  the  line  that  we  should  be  alerted  much  more  than 
we  are  to  the  dangers  of  communism.  I  am  inclined  to  agree  with 
that  witness.  I  think  the  function  of  gaining  information  by  this 
committee  is  as  important  a  function  as  presenting  legislation  to  the 
Congress.  We  were  the  originators  of  the  bill  that  actually  would 
almost  outlaw  communism,  and  other  important  legislation;  but  I 
don't  think  that  is  as  important  a  function  as  bringing  to  the  attention 
of  the  people  of  the  United  States  the  grave  nature  of  the  threat  of 
communism  and  those  who  associate  with  it,  the  communist  fronts 
and  left  wingers. 

There  is  one  other  thing.  This  committee  can  do  very,  very  little 
in  fighting  this  evil.  All  it  can  do  is  call  it  to  the  public  attention 
and  propose  legislation  to  the  Congress.  It  is  primarily  a  local  duty 
and  a  local  movement.  I  hope  you  start  coming  down  to  the  real  job 
of  finishing  this;  because  this  committee  has  only  been  here  for  a 
brief  period  of  time  and  only  scraped  the  surface,  so  to  speak.  The 
real  job  is  to  be  carried  on  by  the  local  churches,  the  bar  association, 
and  others.  I  don't  want  you  to  think  because  we  have  been  here  we 
have  wound  up  everything  all  fresh  and  clean. 

In  my  opinion,  I  think  the  threat  of  communism  today  is  greater 
than  any  time  in  history.  I  am  afraid  that  unless  the  people  are 
alerted  in  this  community  and  in  other  communities,  we  may  find  our- 
selves in  a  lot  more  trouble  than  you  can  imagine.  The  world  scene 
today  is  one  of  turmoil.  It  is  not  for  us  to  think  there  is  plenty  of  time. 
They  are  intent  on  destroying  this  Government  and  all  those  asso- 
ciated with  it ;  and  if  our  necks  are  about  to  be  stretched,  yours  will  be 
next.  I  hope  you  will  join  in  the  fight  with  us ;  and  it  is  up  to  you  to 
carry  it  on.   Thank  you. 

Mr.  Velde.  Mr.  Scherer. 

Mr,  Scherer.  I  have  no  remarks. 

Mr.  Velde.  Mr.  Doyle,  I  think  you  should  proceed  with  that  smog 
business  out  there. 

Mr.  DoTLE.  Being  the  only  member  of  the  committee  here  on  the 
Democratic  side  of  the  political  aisle  in  Congress  at  this  meeting, 
I  appreciate  the  courtesy  of  the  chairman  in  calling  upon  me  to  make 
a  few  remarks  as  we  close  our  committee  hearings  here  in  this  beauti- 
ful city  of  Miami  in  the  magnificent  State  of  Florida. 

I  want  to  emphasize  for  our  hearers  and  the  record  that  it  is  a  very 
difficult  and  trying  job  to  act  as  chairman  of  our  committee  of  nine 
members  and  also  perform  your  duties  as  a  United  States  Congress- 
man. The  committee  presently  consists  of  5  Eepublicans  and  4  Demo- 
crats, but  in  the  84th  Congress  there  will  be  5  Democrats  and  4  Re- 
publicans. But  we  as  a  committee  are  functioning  primarily  as 
American  Congressmen  rather  than  as  Democrats  and  Republicans. 
We  will  miss  you  as  chairman,  Mr.  Velde.  You  have  been  remark- 
ably fair  at  times.  I,  as  a  committee  member  and  a  Democrat,  appre- 
ciate it.    We  are  all  glad  you  are  going  to  stay  on  the  committee  as  the 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7461 

ranking  Republican  and  we  wish  you  a  very  happy  experience  on  your 
forthcoming  marriage  and  honeymoon. 

In  view  of  your  pleasant  remark,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  I,  from  Los 
Angeles  County,  Calif.,  should  do  something  about  the  smog  that  you 
read  about  as  being  out  there  in  that  part  of  my  native  State,  I  wish  to 
say  that  I  brought  with  me  from  Los  Angeles  County  a  bottle  filled 
with  smog,  and  the  reason  Mrs.  Doyle  and  I  brought  it  with  us  in  our 
automobile  drive  of  3,500  miles  from  Los  Angeles  County  to  Mianii 
was  so  I  could  pour  it  on  the  water  should  there  be  a  Florida  hurri- 
cane while  the  committee  is  here  and  while  we  are  visiting  beautiful 
Florida.  We  in  California  have  a  real  affection  for  Florida.  Both 
States  are  magnificent  and  both  States  have  had,  and  will  have,  in- 
creasing importance  in  the  destiny  of  our  beloved  Nation.  We  have 
very,  very  much  in  common,  and,  of  course,  every  State  in  the  Union 
of  States  in  interdependent  so  that  the  prosperity  or  misfortune  of 
any  State  helps  build  or  limit  every  other  State.  As  a  native  son  of 
California,  I  wish  the  whole  State  of  Florida  great  prosperity,  and 
the  people  of  Florida  richer  happiness  and  satisfactions  in  1955  than 
even  were  had  in  1954. 

I  wish  to  emphasize  that  this  subcommittee  which  has  been  sitting 
here  with  you  in  this  beautiful  courthouse  room  in  Miami  these  few 
days,  is  not  a  subcommittee  of  a  special  congressional  committee,  for 
the  House  Un-American  Activities  Committee  is  one  of  the  regular 
permanent  House  of  Representatives  committees  and  was  so  desig- 
nated by  the  House  Rules  and  by  the  action  of  all  the  Members  of  the 
House.  This  committee  of  9  members,  of  which  we  5  members  are  a 
subcommittee,  was  created  under  Public  Law  601.  Under  said  law 
601,  we  have  the  specific  duty  and  assignment  to  be  here  in  Florida, 
or  any  other  place  in  the  Nation,  under  the  terms  of  that  law,  where  it 
is  found  necessary  and  advisable  to  hold  hearings  after  investiga- 
tions as  to  the  extent  of  Communist  or  other  subversive  un-American 
activities  and  propaganda.  We  did  not  come  here  for  a  vacation  trip 
or  experience.  I  would  much  rather  have  stayed  in  sunny  California 
with  my  immediate  family,  loved  ones,  and  friends  and  even  gone  on  a 
hunting  or  fishing  trip  which  I  missed  on  account  of  having  to  come 
here.  It  likewise  would  have  been  much  more  comfortable  for  other 
committee  members  from  Michigan,  Missouri,  Ohio,  and  Illinois  to 
take  a  well-earned  vacation  before  they  returned  to  their  difficult 
work  at  the  Nation's  Capital  beginning  January  5  next.  But,  since 
our  distinguished  chairman  asked  me  to  make  some  further  appro- 
priate remarks,  I  have  two  or  three  extemporaneous  suggestions  to 
make  especially  to  you  residents  of  beautiful  Miami  and  throughout 
the  State  of  Florida. 

These  suggestions  are  as  follows : 

1.  Cooperate  with  your  local  police  and  other  law  enforcement 
officers  more  than  you  have  heretofore.  By  local  authorities  I  mean 
your  local  police  department,  local  district  attorney,  the  United  States 
district  attorney  and  his  staff  and  the  local  representatives  of  the  FBI. 
They  are  working  locally  and  throughout  the  State  to  uncover,  reveal, 
and  defeat  subversive  activities  wherever  found.  It  is  of  utmost  im- 
portance that  there  be  sound,  tactful,  patriotic  cooperation  between 
the  loyal  local  citizens  in  every  community  with  their  local  responsible 
law-enforcement  officials. 


7462        COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA 

2.  Teach  your  own  children  in  your  own  homes  more  love,  respect, 
and  affection  for  the  tlag  of  the  United  States  of  America.  And,  like- 
wise, see  to  it  that  in  the  public  and  private  schoolrooms  the  children 
and  American  youth  there  will  likewise  habitually  be  taught  the  neces- 
sity and  value  of  love,  resjiect,  and  affection  for  the  Stars  and  Stripes. 
And,  of  course,  it  should  be  self-evident  for  every  thinking  American 
that  just  in  proportion  as  adult  Americans  love,  respect,  and  apply 
affection  and  loyalty  to  the  Stars  and  Stripes,  just  to  that  degree  will 
our  American  children  and  American  youth  learn  by  perception  and 
practice  to  have  the  same  standard  of  love,  respect,  and  affection  for 
our  American  flag  and  for  our  beloved  Nation.  Over  the  Nation  here 
and  there  there  is  a  shocking  lack  of  display  of  the  Stars  and  Stripes. 
Furthermore,  just  in  ])roportion  as  we  adult  Americans  give  practical 
application  to  a  patriotic  recognition  by  us,  and  each  of  us  individually 
and  in  groups,  that  we  live  in  the  greatest  and  finest  and  fairest  nation 
in  the  world's  history,  just  to  that  extent  will  our  own  children  have 
living  examples  of  what  they,  as  American  children  and  American 
youth,  should  expect  to  be  when  they,  too,  reach  their  adult  citizenship 
responsibilities  and  duties.  In  a  very  large  measure  our  children  are 
what  we  make  them  by  our  own  day-by-day  example  of  conduct  and 
practices  and  relationships  to  our  neighbors  and  to  our  local.  State,  and 
National  Governments,  and  to  our  local.  State,  and  nationally  chosen, 
elected,  or  appointed  government  officials.  Lack  of  respect  for  the  flag 
an  dour  National,  State,  or  local  governments  and  agencies  does  not 
begin  because  of  lack  on  the  children's  part.  It  begins  because  of  the 
lack  in  the  adult  population  of  our  cities.  States,  and  Nation.  It  is 
adult  delinquency,  negligence,  and  fault  in  the  first  instance. 

3.  I  wish  to  say  this :  That  this  subcommittee  is  not  here  in  Miami 
and  Florida  because  the  United  States  Congress  has  authorized  us  or 
wants  us  to  in  any  way  interfere  with  freedom  of  thought  in  our  Ameri- 
can life  and  experience.  Personally  I  recognize  the  privilege  and 
power  and  appropriateness  of  patriotic  difference  of  opinion.  The 
freedom  to  have  difference  of  opinion  is  the  backbone  of  prosperity  in 
the  American  way  of  life.  And  I,  as  one  American,  recognize  that  the 
citizen  who  patriotically  differs  with  me  in  my  patriotic  opinion  may 
prove  to  be  a  lot  more  valuable  in  his  patriotic  expression  of  them  than 
I.  Fiu'thermore,  I  take  the  position  that  every  American  citizen  has 
a  legal  and  a  moral  right  and  duty  to  think  as  he  pleases,  to  be  what  he 
pleases,  to  do  as  he  pleases;  provided,  however,  that  he  does  these 
things  within  the  bounds  and  limits  of  the  four  corners  of  the  United 
States  Constitution.  For  to  do  these  things  or  any  of  them  outside  the 
four  corners  of  the  Constitution  is  to  eveiitually  do  them  in  violation 
of  constitutional  law  and  government.  That  is  exactly  what  the  Com- 
munist Party  in  America  and  every  subversive  group  or  subversive  or- 
ganization are  practicing.  They  set  themselves  up  as  above  and  ))ara- 
mount  to  constitutional  law  and  constitutional  government.  They 
seek  to  subvert  and  destroy  by  force  and  violence,  if  need  be,  and  they 
justify  it  out  of  force  and  violence  when  the  time  comes  in  their  judg- 
ment to  use  it.  It  is  this  advocacy  of  the  use  of  force  and  violence 
which  is  one  of  the  chiefest  of  results  I,  as  a  Member  of  the  United 
States  Congress,  find  satisfaction  in  the  discharge  of  my  official  duties 
as  a  member  of  this  House  Un-American  Activities  Comndttee. 


COMMUNIST    ACTIVITIES    IN    THE    STATE    OF    FLORIDA       7463 

It  is  also  my  duty  and  privilege  to  serve  as  a  member  of  the  Com- 
mittee on  Armed  Services,  in  connection  with  vrhich  it  has  been  my 
responsibility  and  privilege  to  visit  officially  most  of  the  countries  of 
the  world. 

This  leads  me  to  state  that  the  last  time  I  was  in  Europe,  China, 
and  the  Philippines  as  a  INIember  of  Congress  I  had  the  benefit  of 
speaking  and  visiting  at  some  length  with  certain  American  ambassa- 
dors, consulate  officers,  and  intelligence  officers,  both  American  and 
foreign.  And  when  I  asked  whether  or  not  they  would  give  me  an 
opinion,  if  they  had  one,  as  to  the  extent  of  the  Communist  conspiracy 
in  Korea,  China,  the  Philippines,  France,  Germany,  Africa,  and  so 
forth,  and  the  relationship  between  the  aggressive  Communist  con- 
spiracy in  the  United  States,  they  unanimously  replied  that  they 
believed  it  was  the  same  international  subversive  conspiracy  to  ag- 
gressively and  militarily,  if  need  be,  destroy  constitutional  govern- 
ment in  the  United  States  and  in  other  freeclom-loving  nations. 

Mr.  Chairman,  in  closing  these  extemporaneous  remarks  I  wish  to 
again  give  the  invitation  you  and  other  members  of  this  committee 
have  so  often  heard  me  give  during  the  last  3  or  4  years  to  those  Amer- 
ican people  who  may  hear  my  voice  and  who  may  have  at  one  time  or 
another  joined  the  Communist  Party  or  a  known  or  unknown  Commu- 
nist front  or  some  subversive  grou])  or  program — that  invitation,  as 
you  know,  Mr.  Chairman,  which  I  habitually  give  at  committee  hear- 
ings, is  to  each  and  every  one  of  these  persons,  wherever  they  may  be, 
to  come  forward  and  let  it  be  known  to  the  committee,  to  their  own 
duly  constituted  law-enforcement  officers,  that  they  have  backed  away 
and  have  withdrawn  from  former  Communist  affiliations  or  associa- 
tions and  desire  to  now  cooj^erate  with  constituted  law  and  govern- 
ment to  uncover,  expose,  and  eradicate  such  elements  in  our  beloved 
Nation. 

Thank  you  ver}^  much,  Mr.  Chairman,  for  your  courtesy  in  calling 
upon  me  for  these  remarks  just  before  we  adjourn  our  conunittee. 

Mr.  Velde.  Thank  you  very  much,  Mr.  Doyle,  for  a  very  fine  state- 
ment: and  unless  there  is  anvthing  further  to  come  before  the  com- 
mittee  we  will  adjourn  sine  die. 

(Whereupon,  at  3:55  p.  m.,  the  hearing  was  adjourned.) 


I 


INDEX 


Individuals 

Page 

Adler,  Leah  (see  also  Leah  Adler  Benemovsky) 7434,  7445 

Baker,  Harvey  G 7453-7458  (testimony) 

Baker,  Lois 7440,  7448-7452  (testimony) 

Benemovsky,  Leah  Adler  (see  also  Leah  Adler) 7434 

Bishop,  Walter ' 7439,  7441,  7442 

Blake,  Lewis 7448-7458 

Brautigam,  Mr 7448 

Carbonell,  Jose   (Joe) 7424,7425,7438,7443,7445 

Careouthers,  Sam 7439 

Chase,  Homer 7438 

Eldred,  Quentin  T 7405-7411,  7419-7423 

Fernandez,   Frank 7408,7419-7423  (testimony) 

Florio,  Mr 7429,  7430 

Flynn,  Elizabeth  Gurley 7444 

Hartle,  Barbara 7442 

Hirsch,    Samuel 7423 

Johnson,  Oran 7441 

Kantor.  Tess 7433 

McGrail,  Mike 7425 

Nelson,  George 7438,  7440,  7443,  7445 

Nimmo,  James 7426-7448  ( testimony ),  7449 

O'Connor,  Tom 7422 

Popps,  Lou 7435,  7442 

Quill,  Mike 7443 

Robinson,  Foster ^ 7438,  7439,  7442 

Rodriguez,  Alfredo 7408 

Rodriguez,  Mariano 7405-7411  (testimony) 

Shantzek,  Mike 7433 

Shlafrock,  Hilda 7423-7426  (testimony) 

Shlafrock,  Mas 7424,  7425 

Smolikoff,  Charles 7428-7437,  7439,  7441-7443,  7445-7447 

Soloman,  Joseph 7412-7418  (testimony) 

Spicey,  David 7435,  7442 

Sug,  Mr.    (Sugs) 7435 

Tamargo,  Jose 7407,  7408,  7420 

Trainor,  Alex 7438 

Waller,  Edwin 7407,  7415,  7416,  7434,  7435,  7449,  7450,  7453-7455 

Organizations 

Food,  Tobacco,  Agricultural  and  Cannery  Workers 7454,  7455 

Laundry  Workers'  International  Union 7428,  7440 

Transport  Workers  of  America 7434 

United  Mine  Workers,  CIO,  District  50 7429 

1 


o 


BOSTON  PUBLIC  LIBRARY 


3  9999  05445  4770