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Full text of "Investigation of Communist activities in the San Diego, Calif., area. Hearings"

HARVARD COLLEGE 
LIBRARY 



i|jvE|f 





GIFT OF THE 

GOVERNMENT 
OF THE UNITED STATES 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 



HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON TIN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-FOUKTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



JULY 5 AND 6, 1955 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 



INCLUDING INDEX 



HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY 

DEPOSITED BY THE 
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT 

NOV 2 1955 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
65808 WASHINGTON : 1955 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
United States House of REPRESENTATi\Ti:s 
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 
MORGAN M. MOULDER. Missouri HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois 

CLYDE DOYLE, California BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York 

JAMES B. FRAZIER, Ju., Tennessee DONALD L. JACKSON, California 

EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio 

Thomas W. Beale, Sr., Chief Clerk 

n 



CONTENTS 



San Diego 

July 5, 1955: 

Testi'P.on}' of — Paga- 

Mrs. "Anita Bell Schneider 1908 

Staniej^ M. Giie 1938 

Mrs. Anita Bell Schneider (resumed) 1947 

Mrs. Celia Shermis 1965. 

John Kvkyri 1968 

Bert O. Dugdale 1971 

July 6, 1955: 

Testin\ony of — 

Mrs. Anita Bell Schneider (resumed) 1975 

Harry Steinmetz 1984 

Mrs. Anita Bell Schneider (resumed) 1997 

Arthur Stevens 2018 

Mrs. Mignon Jenkyns 2022 

Leo C. Lueb 2025 

Mrs. Anita Bell Schneider (resumed) 2028 

Index i 

in 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79tli Congress [1946], chapter 
753, 2d session, which provides : 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEE 
******* 

(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) Tlie Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, charac- 
ter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, (ii) 
the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attaclvs the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and ( iii ) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in 
any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 84th CONGRESS 

House Resolution 5, January 5, 1955 

»♦♦*»* * 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Con- 
gress, the following standing committees : 

* ****** 

(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members. 

♦ «♦**•* 

RUTE XI 
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 



17. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American Activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time, investigations of (i) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress 
in any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session ) the results of any such inves- 
tigation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by such chairman, and may be served by any person desig- 
nated by any such chairman or member. 

•n 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE 
SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 



TUESDAY, JULY 5, 1955 

United States PIocjse of Representativt:, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

San Diego, Calif. 

PUBLIC HJiARING 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to call, at 9 : 30 a. m., Chamber of Commerce Building, 435 
West Broadway, San Diego, Calif., Hon. Francis E. Walter (chair- 
man) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter, 
Clyde Doyle, and Donald L. Jackson. 

Stalf members present : Frank S. Tavenner, counsel ; William A. 
Wheeler, staff investigator; and Deputy Sheriff Robert S. Newsom, 
San Diego County. 

The Chairman. Let the record show that the chairman of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, pursuant to the provisions of 
Public Law GOl, has appointed Representative Doyle, Representa- 
tive Jackson, and myself as chairman of the subcommittee, Repre- 
sentative Walter. The full subcommittee is present. 

The Congress of the United States has imposed upon this com- 
mittee the duty of making investigations of the extent, character, 
and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United 
States, the diffusion within the United States of subversive and 
un-American propaganda that is instigated from foreign countries 
or of domestic origin and attacks the principle of the form of gov- 
ernment guaranteed by our Constitution, and all other questions in 
relation thereto that would aid Congress in any necessary remedial 
legislation. 

In that respect this committee's activities are different from the 
usual congressional activities because of the duty imposed upon it 
by the Congress of the United States by an overwhelming vote to 
make the American people aware of the fact that within our midst 
there are those who would destroy us. 

In the discharge of the foregoing legislative duty, this subcom- 
mittee will make inquiry concerning the extent, character, and ob- 
jectives of the Communist Party activities in the area of San Diego. 
Preliminary investigation has indicated that members of the Com- 
munist Party have been placed in strategic administrative and policy- 
making positions in certain organizations within this area. 

1907 



1908 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

It will be the further purpose of the committee to ascertain whether 
such individuals have been so placed as part of the Communist Party 
plan, the method used by the Communist Party in the accomplish- 
ment thereof, and the extent of such practices. 

It is the standing rule of this committee that any person named 
in the course of the committee hearings as a member of the Com- 
munist Party be given an early opportunity to appear before this 
committee if he so desires, for the purpose of denying or explaining 
any such testimony. I might add, under oath. 

Should an individual desire to take advantage of this invitation, 
he should communicate with members of the committee staff. 

I desire to caution the audience in the hearing room against any 
demonstration of approval or disapproval of the testimony of any 
witness or the action of the committee. You are here as guests of 
the committee and any violation of this direction will necessitate the 
ejection of the offender from the hearing room and clearing of the 
room of all visitors. 

There will be no television or radio broadcasts of radio recordings 
of these hearings. No photographs w411 be taken during the course 
of the witness' testimony. 

Mr. Tavenner, are you ready to proceed ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

I would like to call as the first witness Mrs. Anita Schneider. Will 
you come forward, please, Mrs. Schneider. 

The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, please. Do you 
swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I do. 

The Chairman. Sit down, please. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. ANITA BELL SCHNEIDER 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Schneider, will you state your name, please. 

Mrs. Schneider. My name is Anita Bell Schneider. 

Mr, Tavenner. Where were you born, Mrs. Schneider ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Burbank, Calif. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived in California all of your life? 

Mrs. Schneider. Practically, with the exception of the time that I 
was in service. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Do you now reside in San Diego ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your 
formal educational training has been ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I received my degree in sociology and economics 
from San Diego State College. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please what your record 
of employment has been since graduation from college? 

Mrs. Schneider. Since my graduation from college I was working 
for Deputy Sheriff Robert Newsom of the sheriff's office and in 
August of 1951 I began working for the Federal Bureau of Investiga-' 
tion. I worked for them until December 1954. 

Since the time I was working for the Federal Bureau of Investiga- 
tion I began working for the county of San Diego as a group counse- 
lor for the Juvenile Home. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1909 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of having been in the military service. 
What was the character of your service ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I was a control-tower operator in the Navy during 
World War II in 1944 and 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you in the organization known as the 
WAVES? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. After that time I served for about a year 
in the Navy Reserve. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that you were employed by Mr. New- 
som. That is Mr. Robert S. Newsom, deputy sheriff of San Diego 
County ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; that is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did that take place? 

Mrs. Schneider. I believe I began working for him in February or 
March of 1951. Sergeant Newsom came on to the State college campus, 
investigating the activities of two party members on campus. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean Communist Party members? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes; I do. He was to investigate Communist 
Party activity on campus. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the occasion of his employing you at that 
time ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I was president of the International Relations 
Club. I don't know whether he was investigating my viewpoint at 
that time or the viewpoint of some of the club members. 

He asked me my opinion of them. I said I thought they were dan- 
gerous and shouldn't be allowed to influence other students. He then 
asked me to start attending meetings of Communist front organiza- 
tions. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think at this time I will interrupt the chronology 
of your statement and ask you whether or not at a later time in the 
course of your experience you found that there were individuals who 
^ere being placed by the Communist Party in various schools to take 
college courses, that they were transferred from one college to another 
without thought of obtaining a degree or completing their college 
work. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes; I know that is true. One of the same men 
that he was investigating at that time, 4 years ago, subsequently was 
moved to the University of Oregon and is still attending up there. I 
think he has been in school that 1 know of for at least 12 years organ- 
izing the students on campus. 

Mr. Tavenner. So you were asked by Mr. Newsom your views as to 
whether or not certain individuals were of real danger to the other 
students ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; I was. I felt very strongly that they were 
extremely dangerous. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a result of that conversation with Mr. Newsom, 
what occurred? 

Mrs. Schneider. He asked me to attend one of the Communist front 
organizations, the Civil Rights Congress. He asked me to listen to 
what they taught, listen to how their speakers spoke, and if I found 
they were dangerous to the American way of living he asked me to 
continue attending meetings and make reports on them, and I did. 

Mr. Taa^enner. Did you make those reports to him ? 



1910 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. At first I did. I was subsequently moved to the 
FBI and made reports to them after that. 

Mr. Tavenner. After it was ascertained as to the character of the 
information which you were receiving, what action was taken by Mr, 
Newsom to your knowledge? 

Mrs. Schneider. When it became apparent that I would be accepted 
into the Communist Party, Mr. Newsom made an appointment with 
me to discuss it with the FBI. I did and subsequently worked for 
them. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you say you worked with the FBI, do you 
mean you worked in the Communist Party for the FBI ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, just how you 
became a member of the Communist Party? In doing so, I do not 
want you to divulge any information that would be harmful to the 
procedures of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I am merely 
asking you now to tell us who took you in to the Communist Party 
and the circumstances regarding it. 

Mrs. ScHNEmER. I had been given leaflets from time to time by 
many members of the local Communist Party, among them Arthur 
Stevens gave me some and Lolita Gibson. I drove to one of the Civil 
Rights Congress meetings at which Carmen Edwards was attending. 
They gave me a copy of, I don't know, an outline of the Communist 
Party program, I believe it was, and history of the Soviet Union, 
Bolshevik in parentheses. I took them to Lolita Gibson after that, 
told her if they had not been authorized by the Communist Party, 
I didn't want them. If they had been, I very much wanted to join 
the Communist Party. She said she thought she knew someone who 
might be in the Communist Party and would check on it. Several 
weeks later I was told that I had been accepted into the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give us the approximate date of your 
actual entry into the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. ScHNEroER. Yes. I believe it was some time in August 1951. 

Mr. Tavenner. You said some particular document was turned 
over to you about which you inquired as to whether or not it was a 
Communist Party document. Did I understand you correctly? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes; that is true. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. What was the nature of that document? 

]\Irs. Schneider. It was a short history, a little white pamphlet, a 
short history of the practices and the principles of the Communist 
Party, I believe. I don't remember the exact title. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. I hand you a document and ask you whether or not 
this was the document which was handed to you. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; this is the document. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. I desire to mark the document for identification 
only as "Schneider Exhibit No. 1." (San Diego) 

The Chairman. Let it be marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become a member of the Communist Party 
under your own name or did you use a pseudonym ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I don't know how it appeared on the record. I 
used my own name in approaching the Communist Party but I was 
also given a Communist Party name of Seeta, S-e-e-t-a. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1911 

Mr, Tavenner. How long did you remain in the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I remained in the Communist Party until Janu- 
ary 1955. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the reason of the termination of your 
membership at that time ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I had decided to leave San Diego, I had rented my 
house and packed all my things. Several Communist Party members 
had come to the house' and the Communist Party was aware of my 
leaving. The date that I was leaving Verna Langer, L-a-n-g-e-r, the 
head of the Communist Party in San Diego at that time, telephoned 
me and asked me to come to her house. I did. She asked me what 
I was doing. I said I was leaving San Diego. She said she hated 
very much to do it, but under the circumstances she had to inform me 
that I was no longer a member of the Communist Party. 

She gave a reason for it. She said that I had been instructed not to 
tell anyone that I was a Communist Party member and had done so. 
So that I was being expelled. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she know at that time that you were working 
for an investigative agency of the United States Government? 

Mrs. Schneider. No; she did not. In fact, I was also given the 
name of someone to approach in Oregon, the same student that was on 
campus and transferred later to the University of Oregon with the 
idea that when I did arrive in Oregon I could contact him and perhaps 
if I crawled long enough and far enough get back into the Communist 
Party. 

The Chairman. 'WTiere did this woman live ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Verna Langer lives in the 5900 block in Adelaide 
Street. It is in East San Diego near La Mesa. Do you want the 
exact address ? I do have it here. 

The Chairman. No; that is all right. 

Mr. Tavenner. I might refresh the committee's recollection about 
her. In an investigation we conducted in 1952 in Michigan many 
leads led to her name as occupying a certain place in Detroit which 
was used as a mail drop by the Communist Party. We ascertained at 
that time the Communist Party had sent her to California. 

The Chairman. That is why I asked where she was. 

Mr. Taatknner. We had no idea at the time she was in San Diego. 
But our subsequent investigation disclosed that she was the head of 
the Communist Party in San Diego. 

Will you tell the committee, please, about the first meeting of the 
Communist Party that you attended, if you can recall ? 

Mrs. Schneider. One of the first meetings that I attended was on a 
trip to Los Angeles. I drove to Los Angeles with Arthur Stevens 
and Lolita Gibson. At that meeting we discussed what my future role 
in the Communist Party would be. We discussed whether I should 
be chairman of the San Diego Peace Forum, secretary of the Independ- 
ent Progressive Party, or should hold an office in the Civil Rights Con- 
gress. 

It was decided that because I hadn't been known long, I, as a Com- 
munist Party member would be of most value in the Peace Forum. 

Mr. Jackson. May I ask a question at this time? Was there any 
question in the mind of these two individuals as to their ability to 
place you wherever they wanted to as in any of these capacities 
mentioned ? 



1912 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. No; the only disagreement was in which one I 
should be. 

Mr. Jackson. But there was no question as to whether they had the 
ability to appoint you an officer of the Civil Eights Congress or an 
officer in the Independent Progressive Party or an officer in the Peace 
Crusade ? 

Mrs. Schneider. None at all. 

The Chairman. This was all part of the Peace Crusade; wasn't it? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, sir ; it was part of the American Peace Cru- 
sade nationally, the Southern California Peace Crusade on a regional 
basis and our own unit was the San Diego Peace Forum. 

The Chairman. I am very much disturbed lest the present activities 
of the Communists in Russia aren't a part of that same Peace Crusade 
and designed to again deceive the American people into believing that 
the objective of world formation has been abandoned. There is every 
indication that that is what is happening now as part of that Peace 
Crusade. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the period from 1951 until 1955 did you be- 
come a functionary in the Communist Party in the sense of holding 
a Communist Party position? 

Mrs. Schneider. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Most of those who have worked within the Com- 
munist Party and have appeared as witnesses before this committee 
were elevated to positions of importance in the Communist Party 
organization itself. 

Was there anything unusual about the operations of the Commu- 
nist Party in this area which would require activity on your part in 
some other capacity than that of an officer of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I don't know what you mean. There are several 
reasons I think that I wasn't given a job as a functionary in the party. 
One of them was that my husband was in the Navy. They felt it 
would be bad for his Navy career, quite rightly, and at one time I was 
offered chairmanship of the local Communist Party and turned it 
down because I can't give people directions for Communist Party 
activities and then report them for doing the same thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was a position found for you within various mass 
organizations ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. In fact, I don't see how I would have had 
any time to be a functionary in the party, too. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee what assignments. Com- 
munist Party assignments, you had within the mass organizations, as 
tliey are frequently called ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I was chairman of the San Diego Peace Forum, 
as far as I know I still am. I was on the Independent Progressive 
Party county central committee for some time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Central committee? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that mean of the State or county ? 

Mrs. Schneider. The county. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mrs. Schneider. I was secretary of the State Independent Progres- 
sive Party Convention in 1952. I was regional delegate to Los An- 
geles on many occasions during this same period of time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Regional delegate to Avhat? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1913 

Mrs. Schneider. To the State executive meetings at Fresno. 

Mr. Tavenner. Meetings of what? 

Mrs. Schneider. Independent Progressive Party. 

Mr. Tav-enner. Very welL 

Mrs. Schneider. I ^yas national delegate to the Independent Pro- 
gressive Party Convention in Chicago in 1952. I was secretary of the 
women's division of the Independent Progressive Party also. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were these assignments all Communist Party as- 
sigiunents? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes; they were all discussed in the Communist 
Party at our club meetings before I took the jobs and before I carried 
them out. 

Mr. Tavenner. Proceed. 

Mrs. Schneider. I was a member of the Civil Rights Congi*ess 
although not a functionary in that gi*oup. I belonged to the Negro 
Labor Council. I belonged to the Fair Employment Practices Com- 
mittee that was founded here. I was chairman of the Paul Sleeth 
Defense Committee at one time. I was chairman of the Bill of Rights 
Defense Committee at one time. I was secretary of the Emory Collier 
Defense Committee. 

I can't recall any other organizations I was active in but I know 
there were some. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. You engaged in all those acti^ ities, as I under- 
stand it, at the instance of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the course of the performance of that work, 
did you have an occasion to meet members of the Communist Party — 
that is, functionaries of the Communist Party — on a higher level or 
State level? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes; I did. For security reasons within the 
Communist Party the actual method of operation of the party was 
very often concealed from the members themselves and you very 
seldom knew what was happening at a higher level than your own. 

I did meet some of the functionaries, however. I met Bernadette 
Doyle in Los Angeles. I met several of the national people who were 
not Communist Party functionaries to my knowledge, but were 
national functionaries in their own Communist-front organizations 
such as William Patterson, Aubrey Grossman, Dr. John Kingsbury, 
A. B. Magil, Sender Garlin, Isobel Cerney, 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name, please? 

Mrs. Schneider. C-e-r-n-e-y. Horace Alexander, Jack Berman, 
B-e-r-m-a-n. I met Frank Spector. I met Maud Russell, Ben Orel, 
I could also go through my address book if you want me to. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think that is sufficient for the present. 

You will probably have occasion to refer to activities of these various 
individuals in the course of your testimony. 
Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what the organi- 
zational setup was of the Communist Party in this area as far as you 
were able to discover ? 

Mrs. Schneider. As far as I was able to discover, the Communist 
Party in San Diego was divided into small groups composed of three 
members. The chairman of my group was always the county central 



1914 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

committee chairman. Representatives sent from the Communist 
Party clubs were theoretically members of the sectional committee. 
The sectional committee was to send delegates to the county committee 
of the Communist Party county committee and to my own knowledge 
the chairman of the county committee met with functionaries of the 
Communist Party in Los Angeles and receive their directions there. 
I did find out that William bchneiderman was the head of the 13th 
district here in California and that is as far as I know. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wlio were the members of the group or unit of the 
Communist Party that you were assigned to ? 

Mrs. ScHNEmER. The first Communist club that I was assigned to 
was composed of Celia Shermis and Verna I^anger. When the Sher- 
mises moved to Los Angeles that group then was dissolved. I met 
with Verna Langer alone for a short time then with John and Dorothy 
Kykyri. When the Kykyris returned to Los Angeles I began meeting 
with Verna Langer again and did that until I left San Diego. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell Shermis ? 

Mrs. ScHNEmER. S-h-e-r-m-i-s. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have occasion at any time to attend exec- 
utive board meetings or become aw^are of action that was being taken 
at executive board meetings ? 

Mrs. ScHNEmER. Yes, at one time when I first entered the Commu- 
nist Party the peace forum executive board decided to use a school 
building for its meeting. The executive board of the peace forum 
wasn't aware that we had any Communists on it. They saw no reason 
why we shouldn't sign a loyalty oath to get the use of the school build- 
ing as required by State law now. They voted to do so. I was con- 
cerned about signing a loyalty oath under the circumstances, and went 
with the problem to Lolita Gibson and Lolita Gibson took me to Celia 
Shermis and other members of the executive committee to discuss it 
with them. The people present at that meeting were Lolita Gibson, 
Celia Shermis, Verna Langer, Helen Dugdale, and Miriam Starcevic. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of a person named Dugdale. "Wliat 
was the first name? 

Mrs. ScHNEroER. Helen Dugdale. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think at the very beginning of your testimony we 
should make this clear : "Wliere your description of an event requires 
you to mention names of persons w^ho are not members of the Com- 
munist Party, make that fact clear because in the front organizations 
there were many people, were there not, who were not membei^ of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mrs. SciiNEroER. That is true, although the majority of the execu- 
tive people in the front organizations are. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. I just want to make that clear at the outset, 
that you use every possible care whenever you are compelled to men- 
tion the name of a person in a front organization in order to describe 
the activity of that organization to tell the committee if the individual 
is not a member of the Communist Party and make that perfectly 
clear. 

You mentioned the name of Helen Dugdale. "Was she a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. ScHNEroER. Yes, she was. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned the name of another person whose 
name had not been called. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1915 

Mrs. Schneider. I mentioned Lolita Gibson, Vema Langer, Helen 
Dugdale, Miriam Starcevic. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Miriam Starcevic a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is she the same person who was siibpenaed as a 
witness before this committee when it met here a year ago and refused 
to answer questions, relying on the fifth amendment? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, she is. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were telling the committee about this instance 
where a loyalty oath Avas required to be signed by you in order to get 
the use of a public building for a San Diego Peace Forum program, 
is that correct!; 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Then what occurred? 

Mrs. Schneider. Then I was told I was perfectly correct about my 
doubts, that the peace forum should not sign such a loyalty oath. 
I was given $25 to rent the Vasa Club, which was not a progressive 
hall of any sort. I was instructed to tell the peace forum executive 
board members that some philanthropic person had wanted us to have 
a nice hall for the meeting and had donated the rental. The money 
was given by the Communist Party so we wouldn't have to sign the 
loyalty oath. 

I was instructed that during the next month before the next execu- 
tive board meeting I was to educate the members of the executive 
board so they wouldn't be willing to sign a loyalty oath after that. 

The Chairman. You say you were informed and you were in- 
structed, you were informed by whom and instructed by whom ? 

Mrs. Schneider. In this case by Celia Shermis, the chairman of the 
Communist Party county committee at that time. 

The Chairman. Did any member of the bar ever inform you as to 
what steps to take in order to conceal the real purpose of a meeting or 
an activity? 

Mrs. Schneider, I can remember on one occasion Richard Rykoff 
gave us instructions about that. That was in the Emory Collier 
defense case. We discussed the case in great detail, the reasons for 
taking the case, and so on. He also instructed me about obtaining a 
passport. My attendance at a world peace conference in Stockholm 
was being discussed. 

I was worried about getting a, passport and he ex|3lained the 
details of that. 

The Chairman. I had that in mind because there has been a drive 
recently to compel the State Department to divulge the source of 
information it has when it refuses to grant passports. That is exactly 
the thing I was hoping you would know about. When you made 
a})plication for passport to go to Stockholm did this lawyer tell you 
what to say and what not to say? 

Mrs Schneider, Yes. I was told not to say that I was going behind 
the Iron Curtain at any time. 

The Chairman. Did he know that it was your intention to go 
behind the Iron Curtain? 

Mrs, Schneider, He pointed out, as a matter of fact, my geography 
is rather weak, he pointed out that w^hen I reached Stockholm it was 
just across the bay from the Soviet Union and getting there would be 



1916 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IX THE SAX DIEGO. CALIF., AREA 

very simple. It was Dr. John Kingsbury, however, that said it might 
be simpler sinc«i I have a German family background to say I was 
visiting relatives in Western Germany and then go to Eastern Ger- 
many to the Soviet Union. 

In any case, the real objective of your visit should not be put on your 
passport. 

The Chairmax. This lawyer advised you not to put the real purpose 
of your visit on your passport ? 

Mrs. ScHXEiuER. True. Dr. John Kingsbury went into it in some 
detail. He had his passport and was in France when he was asked 
to go to Peking, China, for the Peace Crusade, they were ha\'ing this 
worldwide peace conference in China, he explained he had been asked 
for his passport when he returned and had refused to give it up. 

Mr. Jacksox. There was no question in the minds of either of these 
people that you were eventually to make your way behind the Iron 
Curtain? 

Mi's. ScHXEiDER. Dr. John Kingsbury also advised me to take a 
course in the Russian language, said he would give me names of people 
living in the Soviet Union that he knew would be helpful while I was 
there. 

Mr. Jacksox. Were both these people known to you to be members 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mi's. ScHXEiDER. Yes. 

The Chairmax. Despite all of the misinformation to the contrary, 
it is a comparatively easy thing to move from the East to the Western 
Zones in Germany. So that all you had to do and they knew it, of 
course, was get a passport to France and then Germany and move very 
easily from the west to the east. 

Mrs. ScHXEiDER. Yes, sir; it was also explained that transportation 
from Hong Kong to Red China is very simple, going back and forth 
is no problem. 

^Ir. Jacksox. Do you know the whereabouts of either of these two 
individuals at the present time? 

Mr. Ta%'exxer. We are aware of the whereabouts of the attorney. 
We assume that Dr. Kingsbury is in New York. 

The Chairmax. It won't make any difference because the bar asso- 
ciation won't act. I notice that the Bar Association of the District 
of Columbia hasn't acted despite the fact that on numerous occasions 
members of that bar were placed in the Communist Party and are still 
practicing and still interfering with the orderly processes of this com- 
mittee by advising their clients to take the fifth amendment when we 
know they can throw a great deal of light on the subject that we are 
charged with looking into. 

Mr. Ta^t.xxer. You mentioned a contemplated trip to Stockholm. 
Did you take that trip ? 

Mi^. Schxeider. Xo, I didn't. 

Mr. Ta\texxer. Did you go to the extent of filing an application for 
a passport? 

Mrs. Schxeider. Xo. I got the application and investigated it 
through the attorney. I would have liked to have visited the Soviet 
Union but coming back was a concern, too. 

Mr. TA^T.xxER. "\Miat do you mean, coming back was a concern? 

Mrs. Schxeider. Particularly if my job in the FBI was discovered 
I doubt that I would have found coming back was simple. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1917 

Mr. Jackson. That is an understatement. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yon were describing this activity with the executive 
board of the Communist Party wdien you were advised to educate the 
members of the San Diego Peace Forum executive council on the matter 
of the signing of a loyalty oath. 

Now were any of the members of that executive board — I believe you 
were the chairman of it, were you not ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were any members of that executive board members 
of the Commmiist Party or what policy was adopted with regard to 
the Communist Party membership of those on the executive board? 

Mrs. Schneider. My immediate superior in the American Peace 
Crusade was Peter Hyun, H-y-u-n, who was head of the Southern 
California Peace Crusade. He instructed us how to set up our execu- 
tive board, that we were to elect a chairman and treasurer and secre- 
tary and that no other known Communist members should be on that 
board. When we returned to San Diego and had our election of 
officers Arthur Stevens, who had been chairman of the Peace Forum, 
wasn't willing to give up his job quite that easy. He nominated him- 
self program chairman of the Peace Forum and had himself elected 
in that capacity. Later on when Sender Garlin spoke at the San Diego 
Peace Forum and Peter Hyun came from Los Angeles with him, we 
had a Communist Party meeting and I brought up the subject. Arthur 
Stevens was instructed to withdraw from the Peace Forum. 

Mr. Tavenner. Instructed by whom? 

Mrs. Schneider. By Peter Hyun to withdraw from the Peace Forum 
since he was chairman of the Independent Progressive Party at the 
time and there shouldn't be duplicate leadership. He did withdraw 
and didn't perform any more activity for us. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say that decision was recommended at a Com- 
munist Party meeting ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it was. It was a Communist Party meeting 
at the home of Howard and Lolita Gibson, who were present and 
Sender Garlin was present, Peter Hyun was there, Arthur Stevens 
and I were also there. Although Sender Garlin explained that since 
he was not an officer in the region that it was incorrect for him to give 
advice on that matter. He stayed at the meeting but didn't advise 
us on it. 

Mr. Tavenner. You told us a few moments ago that your Commu- 
nist Party assignment was within the San Diego Peace Forum, that 
that was decided at a Communist Party meeting which took place en 
route from here to Los Angeles, as I understand it. 

Mrs. ScHNEmER. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. What was your purpose of going to Los Angeles 
on that occasion? 

Mrs. Schneider. On that occasion we were attending the Civil 
Rights Congress picket line in front of the Hall of Justice in Los 
Angeles. The Civil Rights Congress was protesting the jailing of 
the Communist Party leaders under the Smith Act. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you on that occasion have a meeting with Peter 
Hyun or was it at some subsequent date ? 

Mrs. Schneider. It was at a subsequent date. Lolita Gibson and 
T drove to Los Angeles, I believe that Beatrice Steinberg drove back 
from 

65808—55—2 



1918 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. What weis the name ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Beatrice Steinberg, whose husband, Henry Stein- 
berg, was being tried under the Smith Act. We dropped her off and 
went on to meet with Peter Hyun. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who accompanied you ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Lolita Gibson and Beatrice Steinberg. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Lolita Gibson a functionary of the Commu- 
nist Party here in San Diego ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, she was. She was the person that told me I 
had been accepted into the Communist Party. I met at subsequent 
Communist Party meetings with her. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this meeting in Los Angeles a peace crusade 
meeting or was it a Communist Party meeting or what kind of a con- 
ference was this that you were having with Peter Hyun. 

Mrs. Schneider. It was a Communist Party meeting. We dis- 
cussed setting up the San Diego Peace Forum in detail. Peter Hyun 
said that he had just returned from a national meeting of the Ameri- 
can Peace Crusacle and that it had been decided in Chicago to divide 
the American Peace Crusade up into smaller regional sections. In 
California it would be divided into the Northern California Peace 
Crusade, under, I think, William Kerner; the Southern California 
Peace Crusade would be under Peter Hyun and in San Diego it would 
be called the San Diego Peace Forum. 

Peter Hyun explained that he had been taught by Mao Tse-tung in 
China to divide up into smaller groups. In that way, if a small group 
was attacked it doesn't wipe out the parent organization. He said it 
was like hitting a pillow with your fist : although you crush some of it 
the rest of it is still intact. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then the Southern California Peace Crusade was a 
branch or unit of the American Peace Crusade? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, sir; it was. We have received our speakers, 
our directions, from the American Peace Crusade through Peter Hyun 
of the Southern California Peace Crusade. We received our petitions, 
copies of leaflets and mailings from them. We also were expected and 
required to contribute financially to their support. We were required 
to make regular reports to them. I was a member of the executive 
board nnd reported to Peter regularly about it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, as documentary evidence to support 
the testimony that the Southern California Peace Crusade was a part 
of the national organization known as the Peace Crusade, I desire to 
have marked for identification a letter of Peter Hyun on the letterhead 
of Southern California Peace Crusade bearing date of February 27, 
1953, and another letter signed by Peter Hyun, executive director of 
Southern California Peace Crusade, bearing date of March 26, 1953, 
«and ask that they be marked "Schneider Exhibits 2 and 3," (San 
Dif^o-o) respectively. 

The Chairman. Let them be marked. 

Where is Peter Hyun now ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Peter PIvun Avas working for an insurance com- 
panv in Los Angeles. I think he is still there. 

The Chairman. Did he ever inform you as to the source of the in- 
formation he was passing on to this smaller group ? 

Mrs. Schneider. He said he had received his training from Mao 
Tse-tung in China. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1919 

The Chairman. Did Peter Hyun ever testify before the committee, 
Mr, Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, to refresh your recollection, con- 
siderable evidence was taken during the course of our investigation in 
Hawaii in 1949 regarding Peter Hyun and his sister, Alice Hyun. 
When we were in Hawaii Peter Hyun was in the United States. He 
was identified in that testimony as a member of the Communist Party 
and as being responsible for burying in the ground certain Commu- 
nist Party materials which were later dug up and produced in the 
course of that hearing. 

The Chairman. All right. 

May I see the exhibit, please. Has this man ever been subpenaed ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. He was subpenaed for appearance here 
on the 23d day of June of this year, but due to a situation regarding 
the inability of members to attend at that time it was necessary to 
continue the hearing until after the Los Angeles hearing. We were 
unable to deliver a letter directing him to appear at a later date. 

The Chairman. You certainly ought to get him subpenaed and if 
necessary have somebody sit on his doorstep until they do subpena 
him because this is the first link we have seen between one of these 
relatively minor activities and, to use the present popular expression, 
the summit. It certainly seems to me it would be worth all of the 
efforts of this committee and every governmental agency to bring 
this man in and find out how he received his information direct from 
China. 

Mr. Tavenner. I do not want to take the time at the moment to 
attempt to find the documents here relating to Peter Hyun. 

The Chairman. I notice in this one letter to you, Mrs. Schneider, 
he said that "Moreover, the new situation created by President Eisen- 
hower's announced spread-the-war policy." 

Did they believe that anybody believes that the President of the 
United States is interested in spreading the war? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, sir. Not only that, they believed that the 
job of our own newspapers that they had been hired by the Wall 
Street capitalists to spread this warmongering idea. They honestly 
believe South Korea attacked North Korea. 

The Chairman. Do they believe it or do they hope they can influence 
enough people of meaeer understanding. 

Mrs. Schneider. They believe it. 

The Chairman. As a Democrat, I want to say that I have been in 
Washington a long time and I have never seen a Chief Executive more 
concerned with just the opposite than is our President. 

Mrs. Schneider. They believe we have a choice between continuing 
the war and creating artificial markets for our produce and depression, 
since they think that Wall Street wouldn't want a depression, of 
course, we have no other choice than to try to continue the war. 

The Chairman. Now, one of these people is Dr. W. E. R. DuBois. 
He is an educated man. Does he believe that sort of tripe, too ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I met Dr. DuBois. I don't believe he does. His 
wife, Shirley Graham, however, I think, does. 

The Chairman. The reason I am asking tliese questions is because 
there are two types of Communists, three types actually. One is the 



1920 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

frustrated idealist, shall we say, and the other is a tough, hard-boiled 
Communist politician. They fall in either of those categories. But 
1 can't imagine anybody who has been beyond high school who believes 
the stuff that is in this literature. 

Go ahead. 

Mr. Tavenner, You were asked by the chairman as to whether or 
not any documents were received by you for use in the San Diego 
Peace Forum, which originated with the American Peace Crusade. 
I hand you four documents and I will ask you to examine them, please, 
and tell us wliether you received them and the source of them. 

(Documents handed to witness.) 

Mrs. Schneider. I believe the petitions we received through the 
Southern California Peace Crusade. The letters, the instructions, I 
think were mailed directly to me as head of the San Diego Peace 
Forum. I received many directly from the American Peace Crusade 
during this time. Peter Hyun also gave me many more. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are these just certain of the documents which you 
did receive from that source ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; they are. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there many more ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. I desire to have these documents marked for iden- 
tification only as "Schneider Exhibits 4, 5, 6, and 7. (San Diego) 

The Chairman. They will be so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive any advice from Peter Hyun as to 
whether or not the San Diego Peace Forum of which you became the 
chairman, was to be known publicly as a branch or affiliate of the 
Southern California Peace Crusade? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; Peter Hyun said that was the reason for the 
difference in the names, that we were to be called the peace forum 
instead of the peace crusade, that we would be given speakers, leaflets, 
petitions, and we would make our reports to him, I would have a vote 
on the executive board of the Southern California Peace Crusade, but 
that officially and publicly we were not to be considered part of it. 

Then when the American Peace Crusade was investigated, it 
wouldn't have a bad effect on the San Diego Peace Forum and vice 
versa, like Mao Tse-tung taught us, you know, divide up in to small 
groups. 

Mr. Doyle. Why was that ? 

Mrs. Schneider. When one is attacked, it won't endanger the others. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may we have a 5-minute break at 
this time? 

The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes. 

(Brief recess.) 

The Chairman. Come to order, please. 

Mr. Ta\"enner. You have stated that you received directions from 
time to time from Peter Hyun. When you received them, what did 
you do? 

Mrs. Schneider. I was instructed to go to Los Angeles about once 
a month to discuss the activities of the San Diego Peace Forum with 
Peter Hyun. After I received my instructions from him I returned 
to San Diego. In San Diego I told my Communist club meetings 
about my instructions. At our Communist club meetings then we 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1921 

worked out the details how toe arry out what Peter Hyun liad told us. 
After the details were completely worked out even a-s far as the color 
of the mimeograph paper we would use, I would call an executive 
board meeting of the San Diego Peace Forum, we would go through 
the motions of setting up a meeting with speakers. 

Mr. Tavenner. So that the activities of the San Diego Peace Forum 
were carried out pursuant to the directions of the local Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. SciiNEroER. Completely. At one time I was very much criti- 
cized because I used pink mimeograph paper. They thought it was 
suggestive. 

The Chairman. Pink? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, they thought it was suggestive. 

The Chairman. It would have to be red to be suggestive. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that Peter Hyun attended a Communist 
Party meeting in San Diego at wliich various problems were discussed 
and you also testified, if I recall correctly, that the initial meeting 
which was held in Los Angeles when you received your first directions 
for M'ork in the San Diego Peace Forum was a Communist Party 
meeting attended by Peter Hyun. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of your own knowledge that Peter 
Hyun knew or expected you to discuss his instructions with your Com- 
munist Party group in Los Angeles before deciding upon the method 
of carrying out his instructions ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I do. In fact, very often there was a con- 
flict between the directions and the instructions from Los Angeles and 
the local Communist Party. I would be sent directly from one group 
to the other with instructions what to say or what to ask to straighten 
out problems. 

Mr. Ta%t5nner. Did any considerable friction develop on the execu- 
tive council or board of the San Diego Peace Forum as a result of your 
being a member of the Communist Party and the other members of 
that executive board being nonmembers of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, a lot of friction did develop. I never did 
discover how it was possible to carry out the instructions of the Com- 
munist Party as to that extent and still have the executive board con- 
vinced that they had a voice in what was happening. They actually 
didn't have a voice at all. As a result the nonprogressive executive 
board members dropped out almost completely. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say progressive. What do you mean by 
progressive ? 

Mrs. Schneider. When I use the word "progressive" I use it as it 
was commonly used in the Communist Party. Communist Party 
members have been forbidden to refer to themselves or their fellow 
Communist Party members as Communists. It has something to do 
with going to jail, I think. So instead of using the word "Communist" 
the substituted "Progressive." When I use it in that sense I mean 
Communist Party members or the very few people who can be expected 
to follow Communist Party discipline without actual membership. 
It is just a polite term for Communists. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, when referring to the word progressive, it 
might be well to use quotations where you mean it in the Communist 
Party sense. The Communists would be delighted to see us use pro- 



1922 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

gressive in the true sense and have it confused with progressives in; 
quotations. 

Mrs. Schneider. They divided in two groups, the Communist Party 
members are referred to as progressives, and the rest of the people are 
called liberals, in that end of the political field, and the term "liberal" 
is a term of contempt. Any one that is liberal just doesn't understand 
the basic fundamentals of the economic theory. 

Mr. Tavenner. At this time I am not going to ask you any further 
questions regarding the type of work conducted by the San Diego 
Peace Forum. I will ask you that later, but not now. I want to ask 
you at this time whether as a result of the friction that developed, 
the San Diego Peace Forum was given some additional tasks to 
perform. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. At one time the friction that we had over 
the loyalty oath brought it to a head. We had several, well. Dr. Harry 
Steinmetz was on our Peace Forum executive board at one time or 
rather he came to our executive board meetings frequently. Laura 
Miner, also, came. Harry Hicks and his wife. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I interrupt? I am sorry to interrupt your 
chain of thought, but if Laura Miner was not known to you to be a 
member of the Communist Party you should state it now. 

Mrs. Schneider. To my knowledge, Laura Miner was not a member. 
I have no knowledge of her being a member of the Conununist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, as to Hicks. 

Mrs. Schneider. I hesitate. I didn't ever attend a closed Com- 
munist Party meeting with him. I can't identify him as a Commu- 
nist Party member either. 

]Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mrs. Schneider. We were having difficulty within the Peace Forum 
executive board. We had been thrown out of the local First Unitarian 
Church. Rev. Peter Samson objected to our leftwing speakers and 
the use of his church as Communist- front organization, quite correctly ,- 
so he and his board of directors threw us out of the church very firmly 
and publicly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. You mean your San Diego Peace 
Forum used the church to put on its program ; is that what you mean ? 

JNIrs. Schneider. Yes; we rented their public hall for our speak- 
ers. When Rev. Samson saw the leftwing speakers that we produced 
he refused to allow us to use his church any longer. Dr. Harry Stein- 
metz, Laura Miner, and Harry Hicks were members of his church 
and also on the Peace Forum executive board. Our Peace Forum 
executive board meetings degenerated into an anti-Unitarian church 
group. I discussed it with my Communist Party club and it was de- 
cided — well, first we had a meeting about that problem directly which 
was called as a result of four Communist club meetings. I met with 
Celia Shermis, Lolita Gibson, and Verna Langer, the four of us met 
and discussed the friction within the organization. We decided that 
it should be divided into two groups, those of them that were really 
Unitarian church members should continue working inside the Uni- 
tarian church as long as possible. We should separate the Peace 
Forum completely from the group. Those who were allowed to keep 
working inside the Unitarian church would continue to work as long 
as Reverend Samson would allow them to. When he threw them out 
as he undoubtedly would just as he had the Peace Forum before it, 



COAIMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1923 

they should set up a separate group, hire or buy a hall, and continue 
their operations independent of the Unitarian church itself. This 
was done. 

Mr. Jackson. Where is Keverend Samson now ; if you know ? 

Mrs. Schneider. As far as I know. Reverend Samson is still head 
of the local Unitarian church which has no connection at all with any 
front organization. 

Mr. Jacksox. I should like to send congratulations to him and sug- 
gest that he have a talk with Reverend Fritchman in Los Angeles. 

Mrs. Schneider. One of the reasons for the conference is when 
Reverend Fritchman had been supenaed, the San Diego Peace Forum 
had invited him to come to San Diego to speak at Reverend Samson's 
churcli. Reverend Samson refused to allow the meeting to be held. 

Mr. Jackson. In the event my remark should be misunderstood, I 
should point out that Reverend Fritchman took the fifth amendment 
before tliis committee when asked whether he was a member of the 
Communist Party. 

The Chairman. Do I understand you to mean that a cell was 
actually established in the church for the purpose of trying to in- 
flnence the members of that particular church in this phony peace 
movement ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes; it was. There were two possible choices 
that the church could take. One, the Reverend Samson could take 
a more left approach, he could agree to let the gi'oup present the left- 
wing speakers inside the church, or the members of the church would 
work as long as possible to make a united group so that when they 
were ordered out of the church it would split the church. 

Reverend Samson refused to give in and the church was split. 
This group took with them many honest, sincere, liberal Unitarians, 
unfortunately. 

The Chairman. So that when the Commtmists within that church 
group left they were able to deceive a number of non-Communists 
into going with them ? 

Mi*s. Schneider. That is true. The non-Communists, you see, had 
no way of knowing this was a deliberate plan that had been planned 
by the Communist Party board with whom I met. They were stand- 
ing on the principle of freedom of speech. They did not under- 
stand that it was at the direction of the Coimimnist Party that it was 
being done. 

Mr. Doyle. Then as I understand it, you did that, the Communist 
members of the San Diego Peace Forum, operating then under orders 
from the Los Angeles head of the American Peace Forum; is that 
correct ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. Including Peter Hjani, who told j'ou himself that he 
was taking directions as to how to conduct the American Peace 
Crusade direct from Mao Tse-tung, when Peter Hyun was over in 
China. 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct. 

Mr. Doyle. So it extended from Communist China direct to San 
Diego to the Unitarian Church ; is that correct? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, sir. That isn't the only example of direc- 
tion. Maud Russell, who was one of the Peace Forum speakers 



1924 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

She was also head of the Committee for Democratic Far Eastern 
Policy, one of the Peace Forum speakers for a period of years. She 
also told, she spent something like 2 years in China. She told of 
having received her Communist Party education from Mao-Tse-tung 
and gave us directions such as subscribing to such magazines as U. S. 
News & World Report, the Sunday edition of the New York Times, 
as well as the leftwing publications. 

She said Mao Tse-tung had taught her the best weapons to use 
against them are their own words, out of context. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did you receive a letter from one of the persons 
interested in the formation of a new organization separate from the 
Unitarian Church, a person not a member of the Communist Party, 
do you recall? Let me hand you this phostatic copy of a letter. 

Mrs. Schneider. The reason I didn't recognize it, this was a note 
that was Avritten on the back of one of the leaflets that was put under 
my door. Yes, this is a letter from Laura Minor to me discussing the 
formation of this group and how it had been thrown out of the First 
Unitarian Church in time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you read it please ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it says : 

Deiab Anita ; Sorry you are out, as I liad hoped to chat a bit. I feel very 
low and needed cheering up. It will be so awful if this first meeting as 
an independent group (since being kicked out of the church) should turn out to 
be a fizzle. Can you help us out and get some friend to telephone people? Will 
call you up later. 

Laura. 

This was a note fi'om Laura Minor. 

Mr. Doyle. Is there a date on tliat letter ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No ; there is no date on it. 

Do you remember approximately when this occurred ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I believe I received the note about 1953. We had 
our Communist meeting discussing it in the spring of 1952. They 
were allowed to work inside the Unitarian Church for almost a year, 
I believe, before Reverend Samson gave up and threw them out. 

Mr. Tavenner. I want to make it clear again that you have not 
testified that Laura Minor was a member of the Communist Party to 
your knowledge. 

Can you say from your own personal knowledge whether she knew 
that you were working for the Communist Party at the time this 
letter was written to you asking for help? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; she definitely did. Actually what she meant 
by "friends," could I get some of my friends, could I get the Com- 
munist Party, in other words, to cooperate and publicize this meeting 
and heljD to make it successful. Without the cooperation of the Com- 
munist Party it would not be. 

I believe the reason for Mrs. Minor's not being a member of the 
Communist Party is because of her previous criminal record. She 
was not eligible for membership. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then this gi'oup to which you have referred was 
not in any way officially connected with the Unitarian Church? 

Mrs. Schneider. Absolutely not. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. I want to make that perfectly clear that this group 
which the Conununist Party was creating and organizing was not 
affiliated in any way with the First Unitarian Church. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1925 

Mrs. Schneider. It was not only not affiliated, it was not a religious 
group in any sense of tlie word. I attended many meetings there 
over a period of years. I did not hear one single prayer or one single 
song. They may have taken place, but they were not in my presence. 
I know one of the men who was one of the liberals who was tlirown 
out of the church, and went with them because of his principles, was 
referred to with contempt by the Communist Party members. They 
said they would have him speak on Sunday morning. He would try to 
get them to go to heaven in the morning and they had other plans for 
the members that night. 

His attempt to bring a religious note into the group was 

Mr. Ta^t.nner. This individual to whom you refer was endeavoring 
to maintain some semblance of religious worship in the group? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, in all sincerity he believed that. 

Mr, Ta\'enner. Now, will you tell the committee, please, what Com- 
munist Party work was done to assist this group in organizing? 

Mrs. Schneider. Speakers were sent down, not only from Reverend 
Fritchman's church in Los Angeles. They were also sent by the 
Southern California Peace Crusade when the peace Crusade was asked. 

We were instructed that we could attend the meetings at the very 
first, some of us who were quite well known as Communist members 
forbidden to attend the meetings because they hoped to ally themselves 
with the national group. When we received our charter we were told 
we would be allowed to attend. Some time went on, we had not 
received our charter. Not veiy many people went. We were told 
we could attend, we could help actively, we were expected to con- 
tribute money to it. We were told when they had speakers we were 
to sort of hang back and if they had a roomful of people we should 
be the last ones in, that the education of the outsiders who happened 
to come was more important then our own education. 

Mr. TA^■ENNER. If I understand it correctly, then, the Communist 
Party members were asked to hold back and not become active mem- 
bers of this group until after it had obtained recognition by the 
national church organization of the Unitarian Church, is that what 
you mean? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is particularly true. Those of us that had 
been Red baited so much inside the Unitarian Church were told to 
stay away from the group. The liberal Unitarians in the group 
would know we were Communist Party members. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether recognition was denied this 
group by the national organization or the 

Mrs. Schneider. I was told it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Which I believe is the American Unitarian Asso- 
ciation. 

Mrs. Schneider. I was told that it was denied. I know of at least 
one trip to Boston Laura Minor made an attempt to become member 
of the national group and that was refused at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then after a sufficient period of time had elapsed 
the Communist Party members became active in the organization. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, that is true. One ex-Communist Party mem- 
ber applied to me for readmittance into the Communist Party. I 
took his application to the Communist club meeting I attended. 
Verna Langer instructed me that this ex-member should start working 



1926 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

in this Unitarian Fellowship, that I could go with him and based on 
his work in there he would either be admitted, readmitted to the Com- 
munist Party or denied admission. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlio was this individual ? 

Mrs. Schneider. His name was Obed Rosen. I believe he was 
subpenaed by this committee last year. 

Mr. Tavenner. His return to membership was dependent upon his 
ability to get into this organization ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Not to get in it. His ability to get in the organi- 
zation wasn't doubted. The quality of his work within the organiza- 
tion would determine his readmission into the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think I should refresh the recollection of the com- 
mittee regarding the testimony of Carol Bayne, who came forward, 
I believe, as a voluntary witness during the course of the hearing here 
last year and who had been a member of the Communist Party. Upon 
applying for readmittance at the suggestion of the Federal Bureau 
of Investigation she was told by Verna Langer that her readmission 
to the Communist Party was dependent upon her willingness to affili- 
ate with the church. We do not know what church organization w£is 
involved, I believe, or was intended to be involved. The witness 
testified that she couldn't do that and she did not reaffiliate with the 
Communist Party. 

Will you tell the committee, please, what the Communist Party 
directives were at the time regarding activity of Communist Party 
members in church organizations ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. AMien I first joined the Communist Party 
my church activity was discussed at our Communist club meetings 
composed at that time of Celia Shermis, Yerna Langer, and I. I also 
discussed it with Lolita Gibson. Lolita explained that work in the 
Catholic Church w^as most unproductive from a Conununist Party 
point of view. It didn't produce the desired results. 

Work in the fundamentalist-type churches such as the Baptist 
Church was also unproductive because of what the Communist Party 
calls the superstition attached to those churches. The middle-of-the- 
road churches such as Presbyterian and Methodist Churches are use- 
ful, in some particular churches they have some social action groups 
which can be influenced. However, those churches are controlled by a 
national board and when a minister will allow his church to be in- 
fluenced too much by the Communist Party he would be removed 
from his job as head of the church. 

So for that reason churches such as the Congregational Church and 
the Unitarian Church are most useful. When you find a minister 
willing to listen to you you can influence him and the national board 
has no control over him. For that reason I was instructed to infil- 
trate on 2 separate occasions 2 of the local churches. I was not to 
infiltrate the Unitarian Church because I had already been thrown 
out of it. That wouldn't be possible. We were all warned that all 
of us obviously couldn't be working in the Unitarian Fellowship 
although all of us would prefer being in it, because our influence was 
of more value if we spread it out. 

I know several of the Communist Party members and the churches 
they attended. Usually the results were very unproductive. For one 
thing the Communist Party members just couldn't take what they 
called superstition. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1927 

The Chairman. Then as I understand it their idea was to try to 
find a minister who was "liberal"? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, sir ; and preferably one that could not be re- 
moved by a national board which controlled his church. 

Celia Shermis who grew up in an orthodox Jewish family, said one 
of the things she hated to give up, one of the things she had the hardest 
time giving up, was her religion when she joined the Communist 
Party. At the discussion I had with Verna Langer and Celia Shermis 
about my activity, I also protested against attending the church at 
the direction of the Communist Party. It seemed sacrilegious. She 
said if Verna I^anger could sing in the choir I could teach a Sunday- 
school class. 

Mr. Doyle, Why didn't Celia Shennis keep her religion even 
though she was in the Communist Party? Why did she have to 
give it up ? If she gave it up, why couldn't she keep it and also keep 
in the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Because following Marxist and Communist Party 
principles sincere religious principles are not possible. They are 
completely ruled out by the fact of Communist ideology. 

The Chairman. Like oil and water, they do not mix. 

Mrs. Schneider. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. The record should reflect that we are now receiving 
testimony in an area in which someone may allege that we are investi- 
gating churches. I think that it should be very clear by this time that 
the only thing we are investigating is the extent of Communist infil- 
tration where there is evidence of Communist action within a church. 
This constitutes pro])aganda of the most malignant type and inquiry 
into the circumstances surrounding such action is well within the pur- 
view of the authority of this committee under the charge laid upon it 
by the Congress. 

This is not in any sense an investigation of any religious faith nor 
of any creed or doctrine. 

Mrs. Schneider. As a sincere church member I wish very much that 
we could protect our churches against the infiltration of atheist ideas. 

The Chairman. One of the favorite devices of the Communists and 
others is to indicate that an investigation is proceeding against an 
individual or against a field or profession in order to discredit the 
committee and its work. That we have seen happen throughout the 
years. 

Go ahead, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask this one question : Isn't there room for rev- 
erence for the divine in the teachings of the Communist Party, how- 
ever it is called ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Absolutely none. Even the so-called allowance of 
the Communist Party to permit religious practice in the Soviet Union 
is merely a decision that repressing the religion will keep it going 
longer inside the Soviet Union. It is a deliberate decision. We were 
told inside the Communist Party that at the present time large front 
meetings and so forth aren't possible. They said we have to go where 
the people are. The people do attend church, the people do have non- 
Communist-front political organizations. We have to work where 
the people are. It is a very cold-blooded decision. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of this organization which the 
Communist Party took over and which had been the skeleton organ- 
ization which had been expelled from the Unitarian Church ? 



1928 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. I believe it changed its name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you whether the name finally became 
Community Unitarian Fellowship. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; it did. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is the organization which I understand you 
to say was not a religious organization but it finally became a creature 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is true. I believe we have a notice to that 
effect in one of the exhibits, a statement of their own, we are no longer 
a religious group. 

The Chairman. What was the name ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Community Unitarian Fellowship. 

The Chairman. Didn't the church make any attempt to prevent the 
use of the name Unitarian ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I don't know, because I had been expelled from the 
Unitarian Church. I am certain that based upon Reverend Samson's 
expulsion and his lecturing of us when we were thrown out, I am 
certain he made every attempt to prevent it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did these occurrences which you have described 
begin in 1952 and extend into 1953 ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. However, the group is still active, although 
I didn't describe it, I attended meetings there. I believe the last one 
I attended was in December 1954, the group is still in operation in San 
Diego. 

The Chairman. Where was that meeting held? 

Mrs. Schneider. At 648 Robinson Street. It is called the, I be- 
lieve, Hillcrest Community Center is the name. It has just recently 
moved, however to Front Street. I don't have the address. 

The Chairman. Who attended that meeting you attended about 6 
months ago ? 

Mr. Schneider. The speaker was George Marion, who wrote The 
Communist Trils, and who has written many left-wing books, many 
Communist Party books, I can't recall at the moment. 

He lectured on the "Real History of the World," from the Com- 
munist Party point of view. They stayed at my house that night, as my 
house guests. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Peter Hyun familiar with the progress of 
this work which began as the work of the San Diego Peace Forum ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; he was. His organization was the one that 
sent down George Marion from Los Angeles. He sent down speakers 
from time to time, I know. At one time it became a concern of the 
Communist Party. If Southern California Peace Crusade sent down 
one speaker to speak in front of this Hillcrest group and to speak 
in front of the San Diego Peace Forum at the same time, or within 
a day or so, the members of the Communist Party and fringe people 
would all go to one or the other and sometimes divide their membership 
and as a result one of the groups wouldn't be able to clear expense 
money on the collection that was taken up. 

I was instructed by Verna Danger, who was head of the Communist 
Party at that time, that they had sent down Hugh Hardyman, had 
arranged for him to speak for both groups. I was instructed to go to 
Peter Hyun in Los Angeles and protest that it was impossible for 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1929 

US to clear our expenses and to instruct him that the local party 
wouldn't put on the same speakers, if he sent one for two separate 
groups. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you learn that Peter Hyun became a delegate 
to the American Peace Crusade in the early part of 1953 — that is, 
some convention or meeting of that organization ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; I attended the workshop at which it was voted 
to send him. 

Mr'. Tavenner. When was that meeting held, do you recall? 

Mrs. Schneider. No ; I don't recall. I believe it was in the early 
part of 1953, about May 1953, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. After he returned did he make a report regarding 
what had occurred at the conference of the American Peace Crusade? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. The meeting at which he was elected dele- 
gate was previous to May. The May meeting was where he presented 
his report. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now at the time of making this report was there 
disseminated at the meeting a discussion outline? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine this paper, please and state 
whetlier or not it was the discussion outline presented? 

Mrs. Schneider. This was the discussion outline. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that discussed at this meeting and was it shown 
on this discussion outline that the American Peace Crusade should 
at this time in 1953 rather extend its operations into other fields? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. We were instructed that no more meetings 
should be held with the idea of building up the name of the Peace 
Crusade or in our case the San Diego Peace Forum itself, that it was 
a waste of time with the present hysterical climate in the country. We 
Avere instructed instead to go into other political or church organiza- 
tions to become the sparkplugs for peace communities in those groups. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, the Peace Crusade itself should 
iniiltrate other organizations? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And attempt to produce work ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, we were told that we should continue re- 
porting to the Southern California Peace Crusade, that regular meet- 
ings would be held, instructions would be given; we were expected to 
report on those activities but no more activity should be undertaken 
really in our own names. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is virtually what you had been doing here in 
the San Diego Peace Forum through the organization that you were 
infiltrating ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, we merely carried out the same activities in 
those organizations. 

Mr. Tavenner. So that the national organization by this time had 
caught up to what the San Diego Peace Forum was in fact doing? 

Mrs. Schneider. It was a general change in Communist Party 
policy at that time that was being carried out in each of the front 
organizations. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. I desire to introduce this document in evidence, the 
one you have just identified, and request that it be marked "Schneider 
Exhibit No. 8." 



1930 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

The Chairman. Let it be marked. Has it been sufficiently iden- 
tified? 

Mr, Tavenner. She identified it as the discussion outline which was 
disseminated at the meeting in May 1953, the workshop meeting. 

The Chairman. Wliere did it come from? 

Mrs. Schneider. The discussion outline came from the American 
Peace Crusade. It was given to us by Peter Hjmn, I believe, himself, 
at that meeting. It was quite a large meeting. 

The Chairman. He stated it came from the American Peace 
Crusade? 

Mrs. SciiNEroER. I don't remember him stating it. It refers to it 
openly in the leaflets. The discussion that was outlined was a basis 
of future action for the entire American Peace Crusade. We were 
deciding there how to carry out the American Peace Crusade. 

The Chairman. That is what I was getting at. This is the outline 
for the program for the entire United States ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it is. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to read 1 or 2 sentences from this 
discussion outline. 

It is our belief that an eflBciently fnuctiouing American Peace Crusade can and 
must play an important role in the development during the coming period. More- 
over, we are convinced that many of the old methods of work which have char- 
acterized the APC during the past must be discarded. In this connection, a num- 
ber of corrective steps are already underway and others will be taken on the basis 
of consultation with the sponsors and local peace leaders throughout the Nation. 
Examination reveals that the supporters of APC constitute themselves a coalition 
of a certain character. 

Now was it in that sense a coalition of a certain character, that you 
were being directed to get out into church and political organizations 
to continue the general work of the American Peace Crusade? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it was. 

Mr. Tavenner (reading) : 

The APC thus has a specific responsibility therefore to conduct its work in 
such a way as to fully reflect and utilize the coalition strength which is already 
present. Proper utilization of this strength can go far toward the development 
of new projects, new steps for the achievement of an ever-widening APC coali- 
tion. 

When did you cease activity in this organization known as the Com- 
munity Unitarian Fellowship ? 

Mrs. Schneider. After the end of tlie Korean war — Community 
Unitarian Fellowship — I was active in it until December 19.54. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, at the end of the Korean war, in June 1953, 
which was a little later than the workshop meeting which you told 
us about, did Peter Hyun give you any further directions regarding 
the peace forum imit here in San Diego? 

Mrs. Schneider. Not that I can recall right at the present moment. 
I was given further instructions about the operation of the peace move- 
ment by Dr. Jolm Kingsbury and Elizabeth Moos. When Elizabeth 
Moos spoke in San Diego she directed me to come to Los Angeles. 
They were having an international woman's day meeting there. 
When I came to Los Angeles she introduced me to JReva Muclia, who 
was head of the American-Russian Institute in Los Angeles. Reva 
Mucha instructed me to report to her about once a month and told me 



COaiMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF,, AREA 1931 

Schneider Exhibit No. 8 (Sax Diego) 
Pe*ice. 'Vorkshop 
Diacusslon Outline 



The Stat« of the CTnlOn Message of President filsenhov/er outlined 
a domestic and foreign prograir. of the nev; Adninistration which 
presents a mijor challenge to the American peace movement, if 
the v/ill for peace of th3 iunerlcan people is to find expression 
in th©- policies of government. 

The Southern California Peace Crusade has, for the past two years, 
been worhinf for a simple, but basic peace program: peace in 
Korea, Great power negotiations and world disarmanent. V/hile 
^events since the Chlcego Congress which set this program would 
demand the addition to it of upholding the riffht of peoples to 
choose their c.n v.'ay of life without outside interference, this 
propran nevertheless still contains the essential requirements 
for world peace and defines the goals of our v;ork. 

"iith the advent of the new Administration,, it is now necessary 
for us to exairiine the meaning of its actions and of its projected 
fore'ign and domestic policies in order to plan the most effective 
vvay for the Crusade to advance the realization of its goals. We 
must evaluate the role v;hich the Crusade can and should play in 
the midst of the developments at home and abroad which will result 
from the attenpt to carry .out the policies of tbe nev; Administration. 

"/hen the Eisenhower Administration took office, the people of the 
country ^and the v;orld were vmtching to see whether or not our 
foreign policy would be one which would lead us towards a spread 
of \iiar or towards successful negotiations for peace. 

The great surge to the pells to vote for Eisenhov;er by women and 
-young people had been accr.ssioned by his statement that he would 
go to Korea, the i-iplications being that he would seek an end to 
that war. 

During the er.rly days of his campaign, I'r. Eisenhower also indi- 
oated that he- would be willing' to meet with Prenier Stalin at any 
time ii' it would do any good. However, practical developments 
since i'«r. Eisenho-.ver's elfict'ion did not point in the direction 
of- an immediate cease fire in Korea, or a meeting with Premier 
Stalin and leaders of the three other major poers, to negotiate 
differences which haVe contributed to the cold war. Mr, Eisen- 
hower made hie trip to Korea. Yet the killing and devastation 
ocniinuea in that land. Persistant rumors began to circulate 
that the nev; Administration was determined to maintain the host- 
ilities in Korea. Signs also pointed to the determination of 
his adminis tration to extend hostilities to the mainland of China. 

The fears vhich were occassioned by such devilopments were height- 
end by the speech made recently by the nev; Secretary of State, 

-1- 



1932 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 



John Foster Dulles, in which he stated that It would be the 
policy of this government to "make the enemy beg for peace ' 
in Korea." In the same speech, Mr. Dulles said that the Europ- 
ean nations v/ould be expected to fulfill their obligations to 
NATO or the aid program of this nation would be changed. 

Meannhl^le,. President Eisenhower announced the establishment of 
a 9 member board to unify Psychological v/arfare. This step 
was interpreted by many V/ashlngton observers as moving into act- 
ion around the Elsenhower Administration's avowed aim of. "liber- 
ating those nations which, have Socialist governments." 

In Congress v/e were treated to an unprecedented situation which 
showed almost 200 Congressmen contending amongst themselves for 
membership on various investigating committees. The Senate 
Ajjpropriations Committee approved a request of $200,000 for th© 
Investigating committee under Senator McCarthy's Chairmanship. 

Particularly the Negro people and orgsuiized labor were becom- 
ing restlQss in view of the steps taken by the nev/ administrat- 
ion. Negroes and others concerned with the question of civil 
rights, noted that the Republican Senate's irefusal to chcuige 
the Senate rule in order to prevent filibustering, did not coin- 
cide with the 6ivll rights platform on which Mr. Eisenhower ran. 

More and more sections of organized labor began to express con- 
cern around the question of the utilization of the Taft-Hartley 
law and possible new and rougher changes in that legislation. 

The perspective of rising prices and a heavy tax burden also 
disturbed farmers and workers alike. 

Women and youth who had looked to Eisenhower for a speedy end 
of the war in Korea felt cheated as the war continued, although 
the confusion about the Indian Resolution in the United Nations 
helped to relieve the new Administration of some of the pressure 
for ending the Korean war which the election campaign had aroused* 

On practically every point of the program on which the new ad- 
ministration stood there were signs of retreat from the election 
protqiees. 

Then President Eisenhower Issued his State of the Union message 
and the fears of many were confirmed. Many other persons be- 
gan to express concern as to where the policies of the new 
Administration would lead the nation. Already voices of conser- 
vative spokesmen for the labor movement and for Negro organ- 
izations have expressed disappointment or alarm. Public react- 
ion, both here and abroad, has been especially sharp in regard 
to the implications of the President's order to the 7th Fleet 
freeing the forces of Chiang Kalshek on Formosa to make attacks 
on the Chinese mainland. To many people, this action represents 
a danger for spreading war in Asia. 

-2- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1933 



By fixing the course of government foreign policy more firmly 
in the direction of reliance on force for the settlement of 
international problems, the nev/ Administration is setting it- 
self agj^lnst the express and deterTDined will of hundreds of 
mlliionS of people in all lands v/ho are de^nandlnp that all 
international problems be negotiated between the Great Pov/ers. 
In the face of the Formosa action and any future actions in 
this direction, these hundreds of millions will be joined by 
npw millions from all walks of life In every country in resis- 
tance to policies that threaten world peace and the vital in- 
terests of every people. The Congress of the Peoples forPeace 
held in December in Vienna expressed the great breadth of the 
opposition throughout the world to the policy of reliance on 
force in international affairs and the determination of all 
peoples to block the perspective of world v/ar. 

The American Peace Crusade has always held up the perspective 
of world peace through the settlement of differences betv'een 
nations by negotiation. The National policy meeting must deter- 
mine what steps must now be taken, in the light of these new 
developments at hoqje and abroad, so that the American people 
can most effectively contribute to assuring the realization 
of the perspective of v;orld peace. 

In th4s connection, several questions suggest themselves for 
our consideration: 

1. Have recent developments In foreign policy, especi- 
ally in regard to Formosa, produced a heightened gende 
among any major sections of the American ^people that our 
foreigij^plicy may stimulate the ppread of war in Asia? 

2. Have there been reactions to the speeche? of Dulles 
and Elsenhov/er which could be consedered as signs Of a 
growing awareness that our foreign policy may lead to 
the outbreak of a world war? 

3. Does the present foreign policy, as it is emerging 
since the inauguration, accurately reflect the wishes 
and desires of the majority of the people in the United 
Sates? 

4. How will the consequences of the projected policies 
of the new Administration affect the interests of various 
sections of our national population? How can the peace 
movement guide reactions to these consequences into posit- 
ive action for peace? 

5. What consequences will this foreign policy have for 
peace in colonial areas, Afreica, Latin America and the 
Caribbean? How *111 such developments affect various 
sections of our population? 

6. Are there currents and trends -- now existing or apt 
to appear in reaction the the consequences of the policies 
of the new Administration -- v/hich v/ould support alter- 
natives to the present foreign policy? 

7. Is there a possibility that out of these groupings and 
trends could come a series of peace actions and peace act- 
ivites? 

-3- 



65808 — 55- 



1934 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

8. Is it possible that around specific issues, such as 
UlfT, the draft of fathers and 19-year-olds, the increas- 
ing hardships to labor, Negroes and farmers, there could 
come united front and coalition activities drav/ing upon 
the strength of several such groupings? How should such 
eoalitlon activities on specific issues be related to the 
central demands of the peace movement for Great Power 
negotiation, cease-fire in Korea, etc.? 

9. I'/hat relationship can and should the American Peace 
Cnnsade and sinilar peace centers have to such develop- 
ments? 

10. If such peace centers can and should hkve a relation- 
ship to the stimulation of coalition peace actions, v;hat 
improvements are necessarjr in their structure and funct- 
ioning in order to make their rol6 effective? 

11* Does the American Peace Crusade have a responsibility 
to help bring to bear on the American situation the trem- 
endous breadth and strength of the world peace movement? 
If so, hx>w can the Crnsade best acquaint the American 
people vd th the aims and character of the v;orld peace 
movement? 

These are some of the questions suggested by the political 
chahge occasioned by the inauguration of a nevj administration. 

Without going into our estimate of the political questions 
around foreign policy, we would like to indicate our think- 
ing with regard to the possiblities of developing coalition 
peace activities and actions during the coming period. It 
is our belief that such activities can and must be developed. 
Moreover, we are convinced that these activities v^ill take 
any number of different forms. On the basis of some develop- 
ments since last llover.iber, v/e believe that it is possible for 
greater discussions of an informal nature at this time v;ith 
leaders who represent many of the various grouping and trends 
for peaceful alternatives to the present foreign policy. 

It is our belief that an efficiently functioning American 
Peace Crusade can and must play an iiiportant role in the devel- 
opment during the coming period. Moreover, we are convinced 
that many of the old methods of vrork which have characterized 
the APC during the past must be "discarded. In this connection, 
a- number of corrective steps are alretidy under way and others 
■will be taken on the basis of consultation with the Sponsers 
and local peace leaders throughout the nation. Examination 
reveals that the supporters of APC constitute themselves a 
coalition of a certain character*. The .iPC thus has the specific 
responsibility^ therefore, to conduct its work in su-ch a way 
as to fully reflect and utilize the coalition strength which 
Is already present. Proper utilization of this streh^th can 
go far towards the development of new projects, new steps for 
the achievement of an ever widening APC coalition. 

-4- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1935 

Of particular i-portance is the need for us to conie forward 
with the creative Ideas vl th reference to extending our 
relationship v/1 th the organized labor movement, the .Movement 
of the Negro people and the farm movements. 

Even 100^ achievement of these tasks v/ould not be sufficient 
to bring about a nev; and oeaceful foreign policy, ''e in the 
APC are convinced that above all it is necessary to stimul- 
ate the kind of peace activities that vlll bring forv/ard the 
voices of thlthereto unheard-from sections of the people. 

The need for the creative techniques, utilizing developments 
in local, state and national legislatures, is indicated. 

It is clear that there vlll be many peacer developments and 
peace actions in which the APC v/111 have no formal role. 
Nevertheless it will be of the utmost importance that we 
lend every possible support to every ?^ovement, action and 
activity which contributes to a greater expression for peace 
either directly or Indirectly. Within this framework it will 
be necessary for the organization to make maximum use of its 
resources, increase its sources of financial support. Increase 
Its service to groups which depend upon it throughout the countrj> 



-5- 



1936 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

that I could get movies and speakers through their organization, the 
American-Russian Institute. 

Dr. Kingsbury had previously told me to make reports to the head 
of the National Council of American-Soviet Friendship, who was 
Richard Morf ord. He instructed me to report on the meetings we had 
here in San Diego to him. I did and afterwards received literature, 
information, I got several movies, I think, through tlieir organization. 
They sent me a huge amount of literature, I know over a hundred 
dollars worth of literature, explaining that getting the money from 
the literature was not important, that the dissemination of the in- 
formation was. 

They were pro-Soviet magazines, pro-Soviet books I was sent. 
Reva Mucha in Los Angeles carried that out further. Their organi- 
zation was putting out a little newspaper called the Digest of Soviet 
News. I was told that— first, Mrs. Mucha asked me to give her the 
names of people in the San Diego area that Avould be interested in 
receiving it. I said I didn't think it was correct. She said however 
she would send me about 50 copies of the paper each month and I 
couldn't distribute them down here. She said it was not necessary for 
us to get money for the newspapers, that as long as people like Corliss 
Lamont subscribed to it it wasn't necessary. She said he had just 
given a hundred dollars to keep the newspaper going that day. 

Mr. Tav-enner. I hand you two issues of the Digest of Soviet News 
to which you referred and ask you whether they were copies which 
you received from the American-Russian Institute. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. they were. It changed its format after that. 
I don't believe these are the ones they mailed me. I believe I received 
these previous to that. Many of them I received through the mail 
too, however. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. I desire to have them identified and marked for 
identification only as "Schneider Exhibits 9 and 10" (San Diego) , Mr. 
Chairman. 

The Chairman-, They will be so marked and received. 

Mr. Tavenner. So that by this time in 1953 you were making 
reports from the San Diego Peace Forum, if I understand your 
testimony correctly, to the American-Russian Institute — am I correct 
in that? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct. Dr. Kingsbury was particularly 
interested in making the peace forum an actual unit of the American- 
Russian Institute. I discussed it with Verna Danger at our Com- 
munist club meetings. She said San Diego was too small to use the 
name openly but that certainly we should use the facilities. 

(Representative Walter left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. You were also making reports, if I understand 
your testimony correctly, to the National Council of American-Soviet 
Friendship ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, sir; the American-Russian Institute was the 
regional branch of the National Council of Amercan-Soviet Friend- 
ship. Then the San Diego Peace Forum became a local unit of that. 

Mr. Tavenner. So this very high-sounding title "San Diego Peace 
Forum" has gotten to be a very broad organization, hasn't it? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it did. After that time we attempted to 
reorganize and revitalize it. I discussed it at my Communist club 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1937 

meetings, with John and Dorothy Kykyri at that time. We decided 
that it would be, it could become an educational group for Communist 
Party members, that I could get educational movies through the 
National Council of American-Soviet Friendship, which were taken 
inside the Soviet Union, they had separate movies on each of the 16 
Russian Republics that I could get very inexpensively and show them 
in San Diego in an attempt to educate the people. We should also 
furnish mimeograph sheets. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean Communist education? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, pardon me. We could also furnish mimeo- 
graph sheets with information on them. However, John and Dorothy 
Kykyri moved back to Los Angeles and were working with Reva 
Mucha in Los Angeles. It cost more money than the local Conununist 
Party felt it could afford. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now you spoke of a program that was resorted to 
of using films that you obtained from other organizations, I believe 
you said some of them were Russian films. 

Mrs. Schneider. All of those that we could obtain from the Na- 
tional Council of American Soviet Friendship were taken inside the 
Soviet Union. We also rented one from the Sovithern California 
peace film center which was taken inside the Soviet Union. It was a 
Sovgoto film, if I am not mistaken. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did this group show any patriotic or historical 
movies of the development of our country, the United States ? 

Mrs. Schneider. No, the only speakers we presented and the only 
movies we showed were completely pro-Soviet and pro-Communist 
ones. 

Never in all that length of time did we present even a speaker that 
could be called a broad speaker. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that all part of the activity of the San Diego 
Peace Forum? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the ultimate result of the showing of the 
movies? Was it looked upon with satisfaction by the functionaries 
of the Communist Party here ultimately, or not ? 

Mrs. Schneider. We didn't show very many movies in the peace 
forum itself. That was a substitute for Hugh Hardyman on the 
occasion I have already told you about. However, we did set up a 
separate group, San Diego film club, little theater film club it was, to 
show movies after that. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Did the Communist Party continue with that pro- 
gram or stop it for any reason ? 

Mrs. Schneider. The Communist Party stopped showing the Little 
Theater Film Club because we were showing films one night each week 
and I was told the Communist Party members were using that as a 
substitute for Communist Party activity. They would go look at the 
films and go home and feel they had clone a good job and neglect their 
Communist Party work. 

As a result of it, and although the other party members seemed to 
like it very much, it was discontinued. 

Mr. Tavenner. May we have a few minutes break at this time ? 

(Whereupon the witness was excused.) 



1938 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will stand in recess. 
^ Brief recess.) 

(Representative Walter returned to the hearing room.) 
The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 
Raise your right hand, please. Do you swear to tell the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 
Mr. GuE. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF STANLEY M. GUE 

Mr. Ta^^nner. ^Yh?^t is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. GuE. Stanley M. Gue. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Spell your name, please. 

Mr. Gue. G-u-e. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Gue, you were requested by the chairman of the 
committee to appear here today, I believe. 

Mr. Gue. Yes, sir. 

Mr. TA\^]srNER. Did you receive a letter to that effect ? 

Mr. Gue. Yes, sir. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. I notice from the copy of the chairman's letter the 
following statement : 

This request is in no way to be construed as a reflection upon you but it is 
believed information you have regarding certain phases of the committee inquiry 
would be of material assistance. 

So I want to make it clear at the outset that there is no feeling on 
the part of the staff or of the committee, or anything to indicate that 
your being called should be considered in any derogatory character 
whatsoever. 

Mr. Gue. Thank you very much. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. AVlien and where were you born, Mr. Gue? 

Mr. Gue. I was born in Saginaw, Mich., May 10, 1892. 

JSIr. Ta\'enner. Do you now reside in California ? 

Mr. Gue. Yes ; I have since 1907, 1 have lived in San Diego most of 
the time. 

]Mr. TA\T;iSrNER. "^Yliat is your occupation ? 

Mr. Gue. I am employed by the State of California as Deputy State 
Labor Commissioner and have been for the past 32 years. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Will you tell the committee, please, briefly what 
your formal educational training has been ? 

Mr. Gue. I graduated from grammar school and took one year of 
high school in Michigan, with Latin and algebra, and have studied 
law in the San Diego Evening High School for a time here and main- 
tained home studies and have a degree of bachelor of laws. 

Mr. TA^^ENXER. Have you been active and interested in the field of 
religion ? 

Mr. Gue. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with an organization in San 
Diego County or City known as the Community Unitarian Fellow- 
ship? 

Mr. Gue. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at one time affiliated with it ? 

Mr. Gue. Yes, sir. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1939 

Mr. Tavenner. First of all we would like to understand whether 
or not it is a part of the Unitarian Church or any Unitarian Church 
organization ? 

Mr. GuE. No, it is not a part of the Unitarian Church in San Diego. 
That is a separate institution which organized here I think in 1872 
and has been in existence, and this fellowship has no connection with 
the First Unitarian Church and it is not officially recognized as a 
Unitarian organization by the American Unitarian Association, the 
headquarters or the parent body of the Unitarian Churches in 
America. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did it seek such recognition by the American Uni- 
tarian Association? 

Mr. GuE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it given such recognition ? 

Mr. GuE. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. "\Anien did you first become associated with it ? 

Mr. GuE. The fellowship as such was organized in 1953, in April 
or May 1953, and a charter as a corporation, a nonprofit corporation, 
was secured a few months after that from the State of California as 
a nonprofit corporation. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your interest in the organization ? 

Mr. GuE. Well, my interest was that of promoting a religious or- 
ganization. I had hoped and I had great ideals and visions of a new 
Unitarian Church in San Diego, a second Unitarian Church. I had 
commenced a study of religion and had planned to take a course in 
the Unitarian School for the ministiy at Berkeley, perhaps a cor- 
respondence course and later enter the ministry myself. 

Mr. Ta^tenner. I believe you were the president of this organiza- 
tion when its charter was issued. 

Mr. GuE. Yes, sir; I was elected as the first president in the year 
1953. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, in your own 
way what occurred in this organization to disturb you and ultimately 
lead to your separation from it ? 

Mr. GuE. Well, things seemed to go along fairly well, there were 
some disagi'eements, but of course we live in a world of disagreement, 
we can't all believe alike. My beliefs were theistic in nature and 
some of the members were nontheistic, I think perhaps 1 or 2 atheistic, 
but they were members of tlie fellowship as I understand, for the 
ethical and moral values that they obtained from it, from our services. 

1 was in charge from the inception of the fellowship, I was in charge 
of the religious services. I was sort of acting as an ex officio min- 
ister although we had other speakers. I tried to invite other min- 
isters and people interested in religious subjects to talk for us. 

It was my hope that we would have other Unitarian ministers speak 
regularly for us. But after a year or so, well, perhaps 2 years, almost 

2 years, there seemed to be a little change in the tone of the organiza- 
tion and when I was conducting the services I had recited a prayer 
and readings, various religious and ethical readings and I detected on 
the part of some a disagreement with that policy, and my effort to 
inject a spiritual tone in the services. 

The national association even noticed a change in one of the bulle- 
tins that were issued and wrote me a letter wanting to know some- 



1940 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

thing about it. I have the letter here from the director of the fellow- 
ship division of the National Unitarian Association. 

The abrupt change that took place occurred during the time last 
year that I was on my vacation and my wife and I went back East on 
a trip ; we visited the American Unitarian Association headquarters 
in Boston and some of the Unitarian churches. 

The Chairman. What is American Unitarian Association com- 
prised of? 

Mr. GnE. I didn't get your question. 

The Chairman. How has that been constituted ? 

Mr. GuE. That is the parent organization of the Unitarian churches 
in America. It was organized, I don't know how many years ago, I 
think more than a hundred years ago ; I had the date here some place ; 
and it is an association of all Unitarian churches and fellowships that 
are recognized by that organization. 

It is the central body, parent body, of the Unitarian churches in 
America. 

The Chairman. That isn't in response to my question. My ques- 
tion is. How was that constituted ? Who selected that organization ? 

Mr. GuE. Well, the Unitarian churches organized the American 
Unitarian Association, I think, around 1830, 1 believe, approximately 
that date. 

The Chairman. Is it governed by a board ? 

Mr. GuE. Oh, yes. 

The Chairman. Wlio selects the board ? 

Mr. GuE. The delegates from the churches meet in an annual meet- 
ing, much the same as other churches. They meet every May in Bos- 
ton and have an annual meeting and all the churches are invited to 
send delegates. 

The Chairman. Has that governing board any jurisdiction over 
activities of member churches? 

Mr. GuE. Oh, yes. The governing board, board of directors, have 
general supervision over the activities of the Unitarian churches and 
all of the various departments, religious schools, the fellowship de- 
partment, and which is — the fellowships are beginning organizations, 
before they attain the status of churches, board of directors handles 
the business affairs of the church and has general supervision over the 
policies, and so on. 

The Chairman. If one of the ministers in this faith should depart 
from being a "liberal," something more, would the parent body have 
any jurisdiction to censure him or remove him ? 

Mr, GuE. I don't think so. The Unitarian churches are congrega- 
tional in nature; they are democratic in their actions. Each church 
selects its own ministers and directors and so long as they adhere in 
general to the Unitarian religion, the national board of directors 
does not interfere with them. 

The Chairman. So that a minister could adhere teclmically and at 
the same time preach concepts that are outside of religion ? 

Mr. Ghe. I don't know about that. I think that any minister who 
departs from the essential teachings of the Unitarian Church would 
not be given recognition either as a minister or perhaps the church 
would not be given recognition. I think that is a matter within 
the scope of the annual meetings and the board of directors. I have 
here a little pamphlet issued by the American Unitarian Associa- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1941 

tion which states the Unitarian objectives and the working principles 
which miglit be interesting to the committee to put in the files, which 
will explain the principles of the Unitarian Chnrch and its religion. 

The Chairman. Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were proceeding to tell the committee in your 
own way what occurred in this organization which resulted in your 
suspecting some improper motives and which ultimately led to the 
termination of your relationship with it. 

Mr. GuE. I can only speak for myself, of course, and my feelings. 

As I stated, I went into this fellowship as a religious venture to 
express my religious ideals and develop my spirituality and try to 
help others in tlie fellowship and those who might become members 
along the same lines. 

When my wife and I— my wife, incidentally, is a communicant 
in the Episcopal Church, although she attended the fellowship meet- 
ings with me. My wife and I went on our vacation and were gone 
6 weeks, last September and October. When I came back I found 
that our board of trustees had made some changes in the setup in 
the fellowship and they had appointed Dr. Harry Steinmetz as 
chairman of the program committee. 

I had been acting as such up to that time. I had been arranging 
most of the })rograms, although not all of them, getting most of the 
speakers. We had a program committee, the members of which were 
supposed to get speakers, and they did. But when I came back I 
found that the program committee had been, as I understood, reor- 
ganized, and that the speakers would be arranged by one of our 
members. Dr. Harry Steinmetz, and I found that our trustees in my 
absence had determined to cut down on the number of religious 
readings in the service and to shorten up on the songs, and there 
seemed to be quite a few changes. 

The editorship of our bulletin had been taken over by Mr. Stein- 
metz, and as a matter of fact, it was my impression, whether rightly 
or wrongly, that Mr. Steinmetz was taking over the management of 
this fellowship. I frankly was very much disappointed and dis- 
turbed, and shortly afterward I received a letter without any com- 
munciation from me from our national fellowship director in which 
he said : 

It could be my imagination, but it seems to me there is a different tenor in 
your newsletters recently. It seems to me the tone is one of analysis only, 
excluding synthesis. I have come to believe that attacking any evil is a good 
thing, but any liberal worth his salt will have some suggestion as to how to 
replace the evil with the good. 

I had been trying to stress the positive attitude on life and there 
seemed to be an attitude on Dr. Steinmetz' part of just attacking 
things he considered evil and without, as Mr. Monroe Husbands, 
the director, stated, without trying to supplant those evil things with 
some positive aspect or some positive program. 

So this came as rather a surprise to me, this comment from the 
national headquarters. 

The Chairiman. What is the date of that letter? 

Mr. GuE. January 5, 1955. It came to me without any comment or 
report from me to national headquarters, although I had been dis- 
turbed ever since I came back from my vacation and I found that 



1942 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

things were rather apparently taken out of my hands and up to that 
time I had been called in a very friendly way by I think the majority 
of the members as our minister and our bishop and various other 
things. 

It made me feel good. Then I found that there seemed to be a dif- 
ference of attitude, that instead of purely religious services that there 
seemed to be a desire to have discussion subjects instead of a purely 
religious meeting and more or less propaganda meetings. _ 

The thing came to a head, so far as I was concerned, in January 
when the program committee arranged, I didn't have anything to do 
with it, I didn't arrange the programs at that time, arranged for 
Harry F. Ward to come here and speak. I didn't know Ward. I had 
heard of him as a Methodist minister for many years, head of the 
Methodist Federation for Social Service. I had always thought he 
was a very great minister. He came and spoke to us one Sunday morn- 
ing and his talk in my opinion, as I so stated to our board of trustees 
afterward, was frankly shocking to me. It seemed to me that his 
whole arugment was praising Russia and condemning the United 
States and I felt the need to get up and more or less apologize for what 
he said to our audience. 

I told the audience that the Unitarians believe in free speech and 
freedom of thought, but in the last analysis, we are a religious or- 
ganization and our fellowship was organized to be a religious organ- 
ization. I was severely criticized for making those statements by Dr. 
Steinmetz and some of our members. 

They said that I had insulted the speaker and his wife right to 
their faces, that I had no right to get up and criticize and so on. 

So I told the vice president, Mr. Roper, that I felt the time had ar- 
rived when we should have a meeting of our trustees to determine 
what the policy should be. 

I asked Mr. Roper as vice president to call the meeting, that I felt 
that if we were going to have meetings of that sort and speakers of 
that sort that we were going away, we were departing from the reli- 
gious principles on which our fellowship was founded, and on which 
we had planned, at least I had planned to build and organize a new 
Unitarian Church, a second Unitarian Church in San Diego. 

The meeting was held at Mr. Roper's house and Mr. Steinmetz 
stated that he believed that all of the arrangements and conduct of the 
services Sunday mornings should be taken out of my hands and placed 
in the hands of his committee, that the committee should rotate in 
conducting the Sunday morning services. 

There were some other remarks such as he felt that the services 
should be more on general topics and varied topics as I had tried to 
concentrate on. So I told them if that is what they wanted that was 
a democratic organization, they could have it, and after the next 
meeting or the second meeting, the end of January anyway, I an- 
nounced to the congregation that I was resigning and that that would 
be my Ifist Sunday, and I haven't been back since. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether at this 
trustees' meeting there were persons present other than the board of 
trustees who participated in the voting? 

Mr. GuE. Oh, yes. One of our members, one of Dr. Steinmetz' close 
friends had called up a number of his friends and asked them to be at 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1943 

the meeting and after Dr. Steinmetz had stated how he thought the 
services should be conducted the vice president, Mr. Koper, polled 
all of the people present and they all voted that they were in favor 
of Dr. Steinmetz' program. So I felt my services in that organiza- 
tion were no longer of any use to myself or to the organization. 

Mr. Jackson. May I ask a question ? 

The Chairjsian. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. You have mentioned one speaker, Dr. Harry Ward. 
Do you recall the names of any of the other speakers who were brought 
here by your successor ? 

Mr. GuE. The January bulletin gave a list of a number of the 
speakers. 

Mr. Jackson. If it is not readily available, and if they can be given 
to the staff later on for our information, I would appreciate it. 

Mr. GuE. Here is a bulletin, I think this is it. January 2, Alvin R. 
Leonard, assistant director of public health of the city of San Diego. 
Incidentally, Mr. Leonard made a very fine talk and it was on the 
public health services of the city of San Diego and while it wasn't a 
religious talk I think it was of very great value. 

Listed here on January 9, Prof. Bernard Kirby, State College 
sociologist who spoke on social ills and cures. 

January 16, Dr. Harry F. Ward, of New York. 

January 23, Prof. Ned Joy, State College political scientist, who 
spoke on the United States of America and the Union of Socialist 
Soviet Republics, a study in power or powers. 

I ddn't find any fault with that at all, though the topic didn't 
appear to me to be a proper topic for religious services, nothing of a 
religious tone. 

The Chairman. Your group didn't realize it but this is the insidious 
practice of softening you up for something else. 

Mr. GuE. Frankly, I just came to realize that I was more or less 
of a front for something else and I didn't propose to be used as a 
front for anybody or anything because I have lived all my life as an 
honorable American citizen, I have had my sons in the Army and in 
the Air Force ; one of them was killed in the last war. I tried to be 
a good American and I just felt at the end that I was simply being 
more or less used. I just didn't think that I wanted to do anything 
of that kind. 

Mr. Tavenner. IMay I ask you when the charter of the corporation 
was obtained, whether you were required to comply with the law of 
the State of California regarding the loyalty oath. 

Mr. GuE. Oh, yes. Before any charter I understand that is issued, 
in fact I received a letter which should be in the files of the fellowship, 
I don't have the letter myself, I received a letter from either the Sec- 
retary of State or somebody in the State Department saying that 
before the charter could be issued it had to be cleared with some tax 
department of the State, I don't know whether it was the franchise tax 
commissioner or the corporation commissioner, and they sent me a 
form of oath to sign as the president of this organization, this corpo- 
ration, stating that this Community Unitarian Fellowship was not 
organized for the purpose of overthrowing of the government of the 
State of California or the Government of the United States by force 
or violence. I was very glad to sign it. I certainly so far as I was 
concerned, our Community Unitarian Fellowship was not organized 



1944 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

for any such purpose. It was organized as a genuine, bona fide reli- 
gious organization, an organization of the highest spiritual ideals. 

I since, without consulting anyone else, I thought it was within my 
province to sign that oath as president, I signed it and sent it back 
and the charter was thereafter issued by the Secretary of State as a 
corporation. 

I said nothing at the time to the board of trustees nor any of the 
officers or members. Sometime aftei'ward, liowever, several months 
T think afterward, I mentioned that I had signed this oath. It was 
during a discussion of the enactment of some of these bills that were 
being challenged by a number of the churches in California, the re- 
quirement of churches to sign this oath in order to secure the benefit 
of tax exemption which under the Constitution I believe all churches 
are entitled to. 

I mentioned that I had signed this oath, I thought it was entirely 
proper, and I was very much surprised to find that I was criticized 
by some of the officers and members of the board for my action in 
signing that oath. 

They said I hadn't been authorized by anybody to sign it and I did 
think very seriously of writing in to the Secretary of State and tell- 
ing him that I had signed it without consulting with the other officers 
and that I had been criticized and perhaps I should withdraw my 
signature. 

I haven't done so yet, but I didn't feel exactly at ease about the 
situation. 

The Chairman. I think that would be the proper thing to do. It 
would be interesting to see if anybody else would be willing after 
official action to sign such an oath. 

Mr. GuE. Since I have been criticized for signing the oath and was 
told I had no authority to sign it, perhaps I was not acting for the 
fellowship. I thought I was and I signed it sincerely. I have signed 
a lot of them. I have signed several of them as a State employee, and 
I signed them honestly and sincerely and I saw no reason why I 
shouldn't sign this. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, in light of the testimony already 
developed by this witness M'hich shows that this fellowship, degen- 
erated into a creature of the Communist Party, it would be advisable 
for the witness to so inform the Secretary of State or the other cog- 
nizant officer that he is no longer affiliated with it. 

The Chairman. I didn't want to presume to advise him, but I cer- 
tainly think that is advisable. 

]\Ir. GuE. I haven't heard any such testimony and I want to say in 
fairness to the members of our fellowship I think most of the mem- 
bers are very good, honest citizens. 

Mr. Jackson. I cast no reflection on them. 

Mr. GuE. I think the fellowship — of those members perhaps now 
those who have remained — a lot of them have quit. 

Mr. Jackson. I say that in light of the testimony of the witness pre- 
ceding you on the stand. I am sorry you were not in the hearing room. 

Mr. GuE. I heard no discussion of communism in the fellowship 
meetings at any time : in fact. I don't think the word "communism" 
was mentioned excepting at one Sunday morning service where there 
was something said by one speaker about communism — I don't know 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1945 

just what it was — but I made the statement to those there that I per- 
sonally was anti-Communist, I didn't believe in it. That is the only 
discussion, only time the word "Communist" I think was ever uttered at 
our meetings so far as I know, and I am sure that most of our members, 
most of the fellowship members were not in any way disloyal or sub- 
versive in any respect. 

Mr. Jackson. Of course that is the tragedy of organizing people 
who do not scrutinize sufficiently the individuals or the motives of the 
individuals who are in many cases the most vociferous members of a 
group such as this. I would certainly suggest that when the tran- 
script of this hearing is printed that you determine what a previous 
witness had to say about this fellowship from the standpoint of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. GuE. I know nothing about that. 

Mr. Jackson. I think that you will be surprised to learn the nature 
of the interest of the Connnunist Party in that organization and the 
things that were done to insure that the Communist Party would 
exercise control of the group. 

Mr. Doyle. May I ask this, Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. DoTx-E. I assume from my experience in incorporating nonprofit 
corporations that the members of the group who said that you were 
not acting with the authority of the corporation, were the first board 
of directors named in the articles of incorporation? Is that correct? 

Mr. GuE. Some of them, not the first board; this came several 
months later. I never said anything about it for several months. 

Mr. Doyle. Did they pass a resolution in the minutes showing you 
had no authority ? 

Mr. GuE. No, it w^as just personal criticisms by some of the members 
of the board at that time. This was several months later. 

Mr. Doyle. I think, Mr. Chairman, if I were in that position when. 
I wrote the Secretary of State, if I did, I would give him notice that 
the individuals who were members of the board who claimed I had 
no authority to sign on behalf of the corporation, so that the public 
record at Sacramento will show that you were withdrawing, if you do 
that, and who the members of the board were and then let the record 
from there on speak for itself. Just the individual members of the 
board, as long as the board didn't criticize you by official action of the 
board, that it was an individual position. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you said that official recognition of the 
Community Unitarian Fellowship was not given by the parent organi- 
zation or the head, the national organization of your church. 

Mr. GuE. That is right. That was because of a protest which 
was sent in by Eev. Peter Samson, minister of the First Unitarian 
Church, and the board of directors of the First Unitarian Church. 
They sent a protest in objecting to any recognition by the Unitarian 
movement of the fellowship. I had never seen the protest and I 
haven't seen it to date, but I have been informed by the national 
officers that a protest was sent in and that there have been subsequent 
protests sent in by the minister and as a result the board has just put 
our application for recognition as a formal Unitarian fellowship, 
they put it in the pending file and they have had several com- 
mittees working on i-ules for admission of fellowships. 



1946 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Apparently they never had any definite results for admission of 
fellowships. They just grew like Topsy. There has been a very great 
increase in membership in the Unitarian Church in the United 
States in the last 3 or 4 years. They said they were just going to 
work out some rules for admission and that was reason or excuse, 
I guess, for not granting us formal recognition. 

I had hoped that eventually we would be recognized, I had hoped 
that we would have the blessing of the First Unitarian Church, I had 
maintained my friendly relations with the members of the First 
Unitarian Church and with Mr. Samson. He and I had always 
been very close friends. In fact, Mr. Samson told me a long time 
ago I was just being used as a front. He said, "You are perfectly 
sincere; you don't realize it." I ridiculed it, I told him he didn't 
know what he was talking about, that our members were all sincere 
devoted Unitarians. He may still be wrong for all I know. I don't 
know. I would like to see the fellowship grow into a real religious 
organization, a real Unitarian organization. I have no ill feelings 
toward the members of that organization. In fact, my last words 
to them were "God bless you all," and really believe 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, I would think any group of American 
citizens that puts a soft pedal on prayer and praise of God doesn't 
stand much chance of turning into a religious organization. 

Mr. GuE. That is what my wife told me. My wife used to sit in 
the back and she told me after this came up that several of the more 
prominent people in the fellowship who used to sneer at my prayers 
and my religious expressions, that they used to sneer at it, and my 
wife said she didn't want to tell me at the time because she didn't 
want to hurt my feelings. She resigned from membership before 
I did. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then the official position of the Unitarian Church 
in San Diego was one of opposition to the recognition of this group ? 

Mr. GuE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. And it had been necessary for the Unitarian 
Church here to prevent this group at an earlier period when it was 
under the sponsorship of the San Diego Peace Forum from holding 
its forum meetings in the church ? 

Mr. GuE. So far as I know, the San Diego Peace Forum had 
never sponsored our former organization, which was known then 
as the Unitarian Fellowship for Social Justice. So far as I know 
the Peace Forum had nothing to with it. I never attended any of 
the meetings of the Peace Forum. They were held originally in 
the Unitarian Church until the board of directors told them that they 
could not meet there any more. I didn't know who was at the head 
of the Peace Forum and, so far as I know, they had no connection 
with our Unitarian Fellowship for Social Justice. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Any questions ? 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Gue, your testimony has been illuminating and 
of great value. It is obvious to me that you are a typical, honest, God- 
fearing American, who wouldn't recognize a conspiracy if it came into 
a room and took the seat next to you. ^Vlien this hearing is com- 
pleted I am sure that you will be shocked to learn all of the facts of 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1947 

what transpired in the Unitarian Fellowship for Social Justice here in 
San Diego. 

The Chairman. Mr. Gue, I too want to thank you for coming here. 
You have given to the people of this community a very striking ex- 
ample of the purpose Congress had in mind when this committee was 
created. The great majority of the American people are God-fearing, 
patriotic, hard-working people interested in preserving our ideals as 
anybody else, but as Congressman Jackson has so well put it, they 
wouldn't recognize this conspiracy if they fell over it. 

That is why it is so important that people of your sort, to come for- 
ward and let their neighbors know what happened. We know. We 
have seen this from one end of the United States to the other. But 
your neighbors haven't. They are unsuspecting. And you have made 
a very fine contribution to the education of the fine people in this 
community and I thank you. 

The committee will stand adjourned now, to meet at 2 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 12: 30 p. m. the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 2 p. m, the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION JULY 5, 1955 

The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 
Let the record show tliat Congressman Jackson and the chairman 
are present. 

Mr. Tavenner, will you call your next witness, please. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to recall Mrs. Anita Schneider. 

The Chairman. Mrs. Schneider. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. ANITA BELL SCHNEIDER— Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Schneider, I would like to return now to a fur- 
ther discussion and inquiry into the activities of the San Diego Peace 
Forum. 

You have told us what part the Communist Party played in secur- 
ing certain speakers. What other activities did the San Diego Peace 
Forum engage in besides having discussion groups with the invited 
speakers ? 

Mrs. Schneider. The San Diego Peace Forum was primarily an 
educational institution. It furnished speakers, it collected signatures 
on petitions, and circulated leaflets. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat type of leaflets did it circulate? 

Mrs. Schneider. Pro-Soviet leaflets completely. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that many of these leaflets were of a pro- 
Soviet character. Wliere did you obtain these leaflets ? 

Mrs. Schneider. The leaflets we obtained were from the Southern 
California Peace Crusade. Most of them came from the American 
Peace Crusade originally. 

Mr. Tavenner. I haiid you a paper entitled "The Peace Keporter," 
published by the American Peace Crusade, and I will ask you if this 
is one of the documents which you received. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; it is. 

Another is Peace Notes. Peace Notes, I think, were put out by 
the Southern California Peace Crusade. 



1948 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to have this document identified by this 
witness and marked for identification only as "Schneider Exhibit No. 
11." (San Diego) 

The Chairman, It will be received and so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand yon a pamphlet entitled "How to Protect 
Youi-self From the Atom Bomb," by Kobert Freedman, and I will ask 
you if that was one of the documents you received for distribution. 

Mrs. Schneider. This is one of the documents I received, but I 
received this from the Communist Party for distribution at the Peace 
Forum meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you say you received it from the Communist 
Party, what group in the Communist Party did you receive it from ? 

Mrs. Schneider. From my Communist club meetings. I remember 
Verna Langer's being there. I think I remember Celia Shermis as 
being there, but I am not positive about that. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to have the document marked for identifica- 
tion only as "Schneider Exhibit No. 12." (San Diego) 

The Chairman. It will be received and so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you directed at this Communist Party meet- 
ing to use this document in the San Diego Peace Forum work? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes; we were. I didn't have time to read the 
pamphlet. 

We were also directed to give it to the other people in our com- 
munity, including the ministers of churches. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a postal card and ask you to identify it, 
please, and state what it is. 

Mrs. Schneider. This is a postcard asking President Eisenhower 
to keep our boys out of Indochina. It was put out, of course, to try 
to prevent a major Indochina war from beginning. 

I don't know whether it was originally put out by the American 
Peace Crusade or not. I believe I got it in Los Angeles from the 
Southern California Peace Crusade. 

Mr. Tavenner. May it be marked for identification only as 
"Schneider Exhibit No. 13." (San Diego) 

The Chairman. It will be so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a series of leaflets and will ask you to 
describe in a general way what they are, please. 

Mrs. Schneider. The first is a copy of the Peace Reporter from the 
American Peace Crusade. These were mailed as a rule directly to us 
from the American Peace Crusade as head of the units of the peace 
organization. 

The second is a Call to Protect the Peace, urging the people to write 
to President Eisenhower. This was put out by the New York Peace 
Council. 

The next is Recommendations for the Campaign of Peace Action for 
the Korean Truce. I can't remember the exact date on it. I believe it 
was put out just after the end of the Korean war and before the truce 
agreement was drawn up. It came from the Southern California 
Peace Crusade, I believe, but originally from the American Peace 
Crusade. 

The next is Greetings for Peace, a petition. I believe we had one of 
these before. It was put out by the American Peace Crusade. It had 
wide distribution all over the country. 

The next are peace stamps. We were sold the peace stamps and 
urged to put them on envelopes whenever we wrote or mailed Christ- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF,, AREA 1949 

mas cards and things of that sort. They thought they might do the 
post office employees some good that way. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to have them marked for identification only 
as one group of documents and designated "Schneider Exhibit No. 
14." (San Diego) 

The Chairman. It will be so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you now a group of pamphlets. I will ask 
you to identify them and state where you got them. 

Mrs. Schneider. The top is We Saw for Ourselves, a report of the 
19 Americans on their visit to the U. S. S. K. I received that through 
the Communist Party. 

The second is the American Way to Jobs, Peace and Democracy. I 
received that through the Communist Party also. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I interrupt you there, please. 

Was any use made of those documents in the San Diego Peace 
Forum ? 

Mrs. Schneider. The booklet, We Saw for Ourselves, was used. 

The booklet on the atom bomb was used. 

The book on the American Way to Jobs, Peace and Democracy was 
not used in the Peace Forum. It was used for our own education as 
leaders of the peace movement. 

The Search for Peace, by D. N. Pritt, put out by International Pub- 
lishers, was sold to me by the Communist Party also. 

Mr. Tavenner. What use was made of it 'i 

Mrs. Schneider. Education of the peace leaders, I believe. There 
Avas a fairly strict division of booklets that were useful in the Peace 
Forum for mass sales, and booklets that were just usable by ourselves 
as leaders in the peace movement or by just executive board members 
who could be trusted. This one actually refers to the Communist 
Party, so it wouldn't have been good to sell it at Peace Forum meetings. 

Next is Spain and Peace by Howard Fast. It was sold at Peace 
Forum meetings. 

Next is the Educational System of the Soviet Union, written by 
Elizabeth Moos, who was one of our speakers in San Diego. That was 
sold by the San Diego Peace Forum. It was sold by the Communist 
Party but these copies, I believe, were obtained through the Peace 
Forum. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. Let me ask you a few questions 
about Elizabeth Moos. 

Did you know her personally ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I did. She was my house guest for about a 
week, I believe, and I met her on several occasions in Los Angeles also. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you learn from her what her relationship to 
William Walter Remington was ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I did. William Remington was Elizabeth 
Moos's son-in-law. She was in disgrace at the time she stayed at my 
home. The Communist Party criticized her, I don't know the details 
of the Remington case, but the Communist Party said that if she had 
kept a closer family relationship with William Remington and with 
her daughter, that testimony that one of them gave would never have 
been given. She was supposed to keep tabs on her family. 

Mr. Tavenner. She was criticized then for not keeping a more 
strict control over her family ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

65808—55 4 



1950 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she criticized within the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. They looked on her as being responsible for the 
testimony given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, you will probably recall that this 
committee, through its investigation, discovered the Communist Party 
membership of Remington as a result of which he was called before 
a grand jury and finally prosecuted for perjury, not perjury before 
our committee but per jury before the grand jury. 

It was about that time that the committee started its investigation 
into these peace movements and discovered that the post office address 
to which petitions shguld be filed in New York City was her address, 
Elizabeth Moos. 

Now, proceed, if you will. 

Mrs. Schneider. The last leaflet is "We Came, We Saw, and We Re- 
port, statements of a delegation to the U. S. S. R., put out by the Na- 
tional Council of American-Soviet Friendship. This was one of the 
many leaflets that the national council sent to the San Diego Peace 
Forum for sale and distribution. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to have the documents marked for identi- 
fication onlv as one batch of documents and designated "Schneider Ex- 
hibit No. 15." (San Diego) 

The Chairman. They will be so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you another document and ask you to state 
what it is, please. 

Mrs. Schneider. This document is a catalog put out by the South- 
ern California Peace Crusade, advertising the peace film center. It 
outlines the film that can be arranged from the Southern California 
Peace Crusade. It was sent to all of the peace groups in the Southern 
California Peace Crusade. 

Mr. Tavenner. May the document be marked for identification only 
as "Schneider Exhibit No. 16." (San Diego) 

(At this point. Representative Doyle entered the hearing room.) 

The Chairman. Where did you say it came from ? 

Mrs. Schneider. From the Southern California Peace Crusade. 

The Chairman. It will be so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Schneider, what was the source of the mailing 
list used by the San Diego Peace Forum to mail out the various 
items of propaganda which you received ? 

Mrs. Schneider. The original mailing list was given to me when I 
was elected chairman of the San Diego Peace Forum by Arthur 
Stevens and Lloyd Hamlin. When we activated the Peace Forum 
and really worked on it, we also added all of the other progressive 
mailing lists in the town. We added the IPP mailing list, we added 
the Unitarian Fellowships 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state what IPP means please 

Mrs. Schneider. The Independent Progressive Party mailing list. 
We added also the Civil Rights Congress mailing list, we added the 
Unitarian Fellowship mailing list, the Communist Party mailing list. 
Also, a few ministers were thrown in and a few innocent lawyers. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, the Communist Party had access to 
the mailing lists of all of these front organizations ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, they did. 

Mr. Tavenner. And they were utilized in the San Diego Peace 
Forum work ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIT., AREA 1951 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. In fact, there was even a closer relationship. 
We would borrow the addressograph machine from the Unitarian Fel- 
lowship, we always mimeographed at the Independent Progressive 
Party office, and on their mimeograph machines. 

One of the leaflets was addressed at the Unitarian Fellowship, but 
the envelopes were addressed there. 

Sometimes we had a few Peace Forum members in on the mailing 
but not too often. Much of the work was done by the Communist 
Party itself. 

Mr. Tavenner. So that you had the free run of the community 
Unitarian Fellowship, the Independent Progressive Party headquar- 
ters, and the San Diego Peace Forum headquarters to carry out the 
propaganda work of the Communist Party 

The Chairman. She added something more. She said much of 
the work was done by the Communist Party. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, that is true. The nonprogressives, non-Com- 
munist Party members, were never quite as helpful about running the 
mimeograph machines, and so on. 

The Chairman. To boil this- down, much of the information came 
from the Communist Party and was disseminated largely by mem- 
bers of the Communist Party. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there any occasions on which you had diffi- 
culty carrying out Communist Party directives when working as chair- 
man of the San Diego Peace Forum? I mean from the standpoint 
of opposition from members of that group who were not members of 
the Communist Party. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, they found that my actions as chairman of 
the group were very inconsistent. We would have executive board 
meetings, make decisions, I would start to carry them out and, after 
a Communist Party Club meeting, have to change them. They found 
it very unbelievable. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, the Communist Party would re- 
verse decisions made by the legitimate organization of the San Diego 
Peace Forum ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, they would. In the end, I gave up trying to 
follow the executive board directions at all. I merely carried out the 
directions of the Communist Party ; the non-Communist members on 
the Peace Forum executive board naturally dropped out. 

Mr. Doyle. What is the status of the San Diego Peace Forum now? 
You said you were still chairman as far as you knew. 

Mrs. Schneider. After the Korean war, when the policy of the 
American Peace Crusade was changed, putting us into the other or- 
ganizations, it became quite inactive. We did have one meeting, I 
think, last December, just sort of an accident. There wasn't anyone 
else to sponsor it, we had a good speaker, so we had a Peace Forum 
meeting. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. You mentioned in the early part of your testimony 
a person by the name of Isobel Cerney. 

Wliat is the correct pronounciation ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Isobel Cerney. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was Isobel Cerney from ? 



1952 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. Isobel Cerney is from. San Francisco. She is a 
former teacher who was thrown out of the public school system because 
of her Communist Party activity. Her husband, at least last Novem- 
ber, was a teacher in the California Labor School. She was a candi- 
date for United States Senate on the Independent Progressive Party 
ticket in November. 

Mr. Tavenner. From the San Francisco area ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That would be statewide. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you say for the Senate ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have occasion to see her in San Diego ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I did ; on one occasion she was a speaker for 
the San Diego Peace Forum, one or more occasions, I don't remember 
whicli. She also came as a candidate for office from the Independent 
Progressive Party in May before the primary elections, I believe, and 
then again in November. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Peter Hyun have anything to do with her 
appearance here in San Diego in connection with the San Diego Peace 
Forum work ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it was he that arranged the speaking for us. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of a letter on the 
stationery of Southern California Peace Crusade bearing date of 
May 22, 1953, signed Minna K. Beilew, it appears. Do you recall the 
name? 

Mrs. Schneider. I remember the woman. I am not positive about 
the name, either. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the letter, please. 

Mrs. Schneider. She was acting secretary in the Southern Cali- 
fornia Peace Crusade office. 

Mr. Tavenner. To whom is the letter addressed ? 

Mrs. Schneider. It is addressed to me and tells about the possibility 
of getting Mrs. Cerney to have a meeting in San Diego. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive this letter ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. I desire to introduce the document in evidence and 
ask that it be marked "Schneider Exhibit No. 17." 

The Chairman. Let it be received. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to read one paragraph from the letter : 

It is possible tliat you discussed tliis with Peter, but he is out of the office, 
ill, and I don't have the results of your talk with him. So please write me at 
once and give me the answers so I can phone Mrs. Cerney on Monday. 

Now, that related to the making of an appointment to speak here in 
San Diego, did it not ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it did. 

Mr. Tavenner. I now hand you a copy of a letter bearing date of 
May 20, the year is not stated, addressed to Mrs. Virgil A. Schneider. 
Win you examine it, please, and state whether or not you received the 
original of that letter, and, if so, from whom it was sent. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, this letter was sent to me from Isobel 
Cerney. She was making arrangements for a speaking appearance in 
San Diego. I don't remember the year on this, but whatever year 
Sunday came on May 24 would be correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. I call to your attention the fact that the letter from 
Peter Hyun's office was May 22, 1953. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1953 
Schneider Exhibit No. 17 (San Diego) 

iOOM lie • 11* WICT IIS ITIIIT • lOS ANOIlil II, CAIIIOIMIA 



MUTUAL lift 



May 22, 1953. 



Dear Mrs. Schneider; 

Mrs, Isobel Cemey phonewLyeoterday, as soon as she arrived 
in Los Angeles . and we told her about her engagement In your 
city on May 28th. 

Mrs. Cemey asks about transportation. Will any of your 
friends be in L.A. at that time to drive her down, or will 
you be willing to pay her fare there and back on public 
transportation? Have you given any thought to her staying 
oteemlght? 

It Is possible that you discussed this with. Peter, but he 
is out of the office. 111, and I don't have the results of 
your talk with hln. So please write me at once and give me 
the answers so I can phone Mrs. Cemey on Monday. 

Thank you so nuch for your cooperation. 




Mrs. Schneider. Then this would have been in 1953 also. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the date on that letter ? 

Mrs. Schneider. After May 20, it says. This is referring to the 
same meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce this copy of a letter from 
Isobel N. Cerney in evidence and ask that it be marked "Schneider 
Exhibit No. 18" (San Diego) for identification only. 

The Chairman. Let it be received. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to read into evidence one paragraph : 



1954 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

My husband and I spent 6 weeks in the German Democratic Republic, 2 weeks in 
the Soviet Union (Moscow and Soviet Armenia) and 8 weeks in China between 
last July and mid-December. You will find articles of ours in the February, 
March and May issues of the New World Review with appropriate biographical 
material. "Asia Wants Peace" is a talk I give reporting on the Pekin peace 
conference in which I try to show the achievements of the historic conference 
and to make the people understand some of the political, economic, and social 
realities of Asia in line with the Asian section of the Quaker report, Steps to 
Peace. 

My Trip to China centers on answering such questions as "What is going on 
in China today?" "What are the schools, parents and youth organizations teach- 
ing the youth of China?" "Can we have peace and trade with China?" and so 
forth. 

American Teacher in the Soviet Union centers on what I learned about the 
implications of their new 10-year plan for teachers and youth-guidance people 
in visits with deputies, people in the ministry of education, youth centers, schools, 
and so forth, in Moscow and Armenia. 

Now, as a result, did Isobel Cerney appear as a speaker in San 
Diego ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, she did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall that she spoke here on observations 
of hers at the so-called Peking peace conference? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, she did. Her entire talk, I believe, was based 
on China and her trip to the new Chinese Republic. 

Mr, Tavenner. In the hearings last week in Los Angeles, testimony 
was introduced indicating that the so-called Peking peace conference 
was held October 2 to October 10, 1952. 

Do you recall whether or not, in the address that she gave here, that 
Mrs. Cerney made mention of bacteria warfare in any respect ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, she did. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the general character of her statements 
regarding bacteria warfare or what were her actual words, if you can 
recall ? 

Mrs. Schneider. We just assumed that we accepted the fact that 
the United States had used bacteriological warfare. She described 
the apparatus used in dropping it, according to the Communist pro- 
paganda, a cylinderlike affair that broke open after landing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Had you prior to this time been addressed here in 
San Diego by Hugh Hardyman on his report concerning the same 
conference ? Had he spoken here, do you know ? 

Mrs, Schneider. He had spoken in San Diego. That was one of 
the meetings that brought on a violent disagreement between the re- 
gional Communist Party and the local Communist Party. 

Peter Hyun had arranged for Hugh Hardyman to speak at both 
the Unitarian Fellowship and the peace forum. 

Verna Danger thought that was very incorrect and sent me to Los 
Angeles to tell Peter Hyun that Hugh Hardyman couldn't speak for 
both groups and to cancel his appearance before the San Diego Peace 
Forum, He was replaced by the Soviet film Majordski from the 
National Council of Soviet- American Friendship. 

Mr. Tavenner, Did you attend Hugh Hardyman 's presentation of 
his report ? 

Mrs, Schneider, No, I didn't. 

Mr. Tavenner. A document was introduced in evidence in Los 
Angeles in pamphlet form entitled "Report From China," by Hugh 
Hardyman, and on the back of the cover it was stated that additional 



COMMXJNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1955 

copies could be obtained from the Southern California Peace Crusade, 
price 10 cents. 

Do you have any knowledge of the financing by the Southern Cali- 
fornia Peace Crusade of any of this material relating to the so-called 
peace conference in Peking, China? 

Mrs. Schneider. Not that I can recall at the moment. 

Mrs. Schneider. I do remember seeing the document. We sold it, 
if I am not mistaken, at our peace- forum meetings. We were all dis- 
appointed in not having Hugh Hardyman speak for the peace forum. 

Mr. Jackson. But he did speak at the Unitarian Fellowship meet- 
ing? 

Mrs. Schneider. I don't know the exact sponsorship of that meet- 
ing. He spoke with Dr. Steinmetz' group. I am not aware of whether 
it was a meeting at Dr. Steinmetz' home or a Unitarian Fellowship 
group. 

The Chairman. When did this woman make the speech about the 
use of germ warfare ? 

Mrs. Schneider. About May 1953, 1 believe. 

The Chairman. Do you remember who attended the meeting ? 

Mrs. Schneider. If I am recalling the exact meeting, the meeting 
was originall}'^ scheduled at the Native Sons Hall and, through an 
error, we were not able to get the hall. The meeting was moved to 
the Independent Progressive Party Office. I can remember Arthur 
Stevens being present, of course, Mrs. Cerney, I think Leo Lueb. I 
would have to go through my address book. I can do that if you like. 

The Chairman. Was it covered by any of the local newspapers ? 

Mrs. Schneider. No. The local newspapers were very good about 
refusing to print Communist Party news. 

The Chairman. I wish that were true all over the Nation. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquanited with any other persons 
who attended this so-called Peking peace conference in China in 
October 1952? 

Mrs. Schneider. Dr. John Kingsbury had attended the preliminary 
planning session of it. Isobel Cerney, and I did meet Hugh Hardy- 
man in Los Angeles. He attended the Peking peace conference. I 
can't recall any others. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you know that Dr. John Kingsbury, at- 
tended a preliminary meeting of the so-called peace conference ? 

Mrs. Schneider. He was very apologetic. We had sent out the 
notices for the peace forum meeting at which he was to speak, saying 
he had attended the Peking peace conference. He corrected me and 
said that he would try not to mention it on purpose, but the meeting 
he attended was the preliminary planning session. He had been sent 
to it by Jacques Duclos in France. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he tell you any of the circumstances under 
which he was sent by Jacques Duclos to attend this preliminary peace 
conference in China ? 

Mrs. Schneider. He said he was already in Nice and so had his 
passport, but that party members in the country were having diffi- 
culty obtaining passports to go to the conference. He said that then 
he was asked to go, since he already was abroad and had his pass- 
port. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he tell you how the expenses of that trip were 
met? 



1956 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, he did. I was questioning him because we 
were contemplating my going to Stockholm at the same time. He 
said expenses would be no problem because they could be met in my 
case just the same as they were in his. Inside the Soviet Union some- 
one, a young woman, was assigned to travel with him and show him 
over the Soviet Union. He would tell her a few things about his 
ideas, and so on, and she would write the story, they would publish it, 
and the money would be deposited to his account. 

Exactly the same thing happened in China, except he expressed his 
pride in such a good story having come out of such a very small 
conference. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, there was a device by which Com- 
munist China and the Soviet Union paid the expenses of an American 
delegate to the so-called peace conference, or preliminary peace con- 
ference ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Exactly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, as you were not present in Los 
Angeles, I probably should state for your information that an issue 
of the Daily People's World was introduced in evidence, in which it 
was reported that Dr. John Kingsbury, on being introduced to speak 
in California, was introduced by the statement that he was one of 
those who prepared the advance agenda of the so-called peace con- 
ference which was held in October. 

The Chairman. Of what year? When was the peace conference 
held? 

Mr. Tavenner. October 2 to 10, 1952. 

The Chairman. Do I understand you to mean that an American 
participated in the preparation of this phony peace movement? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, the only evidence we had at Los 
Angeles was the newspaper account of his introduction, which stated 
that Dr. Kingsbury was one of those who helped prepare the advance 
agenda. 

The Chairman. Who made that introduction ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I do not know. 

The Chairman. I think it might be well to call Dr. Kingsbury to 
find out whether or not it is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. This witness testified Dr. Kingsbury told her sub- 
stantially the same thing except in more detail. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, as far as I am concerned, and in addi- 
tion to calling Dr. Kingsbury, I would call as a witness before this 
committee everyone who went behind the Iron Curtain and made 
broadcastings, even intimating that this country was engaged in 
bacteriological warfare. 

The Chairman. The person who made the statement here made the 
same statement which caused the court-martialing of American pris- 
oners. I don't think that a civilian is any better than those soldiers. 
This is a shocking thing to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Isobel Cerney at any time advise you as to 
how she got to this peace conference in China ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Mrs. Cerney didn't discuss that part of it with me. 

Mr. Ta-\tenner, You don't know how she obtained her passport? 

Mrs. Schneider. Not in lipr case. Mrs. Moos discussed getting my 
passport with me, as did Dr. Kingsbury. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1957 

Mr. Ta\^bnner. Was that passport to the Stockhohn peace con- 
ference ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any information regarding the circum- 
stances under ^Yhich Isobel Cerney received her appointment as a 
delegate to this so-called peace conference ? 

Mrs. SciiNEroER. I don't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any information as to the circum- 
stances under which Hugh Hardy man of Los Angeles was appointed 
as a delegate to this so-called peace conference ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I remember that the delegates were discussed. We 
were told that it was important to use delegates that were not well- 
known for their Communist Party activity or they would not be al- 
lowed to get passports by the State Department. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere was that discussed ? 

Mrs. Schneider. At one of the peace workshops. I don't remember 
which one. Although we would like to have sent recognized Com- 
munist Party members, it was felt that sending other people was neces- 
sary. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how the expenses of those who went as 
delegates to this so-called news conference were financed, other than 
what you have already told us ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I don't know that. 

Mr. Jackson. How was it proposed that your expenses were to have 
been paid had you gone ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I didn't reach exactly that stage of discussion. 
Although Dr. Kingsbury did explain to me that my expenses while I 
was there would be covered. It was discussed in the Communist Party 
meeting locally. The people on the national level were disagreeing 
with the local Communist Party about delegates, for one thing. 

The local Communist Party felt that Arthur Stevens should be the 
person to go, that enougli money should be raised, wliile the national 
party was suggesting I should go from the peace forum. 

Mr. Tavenner. Go where? 

Mrs. Schneider. To the Stockholm peace conference. 

The local Communist Party decided that we wouldn't be able to 
raise enough money locally to send a person anyway. It would cost 
probably $1,200 or some such figure. 

Mr. Tavenner. We introduced in evidence in Los Angeles an issue 
of the Daily People's World which announced that on one occasion 
when Mr. Hugh Hardyman was being introduced as a speaker to make 
a report on his trip to China, he was introduced as the person whose 
trip to China was sponsored by the Southern California Peace Cru- 
sade. 

Now, do you have any information on that subject, as to whether 
or not he was actually a person sponsored for this trip by the Southern 
California Peace Crusade. 

Mrs. Schneider. I remember the delegate being discussed and the 
amount of money we would have to raise to send delegates to the peace 
conference. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the peace conference in China ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. I can remember a southern California execu- 
tive board meeting at which it was discussed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any actual knowledge that funds were 
raised for that purpose ? 



1958 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. Not that I can recall at this moment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Aside from your activities in the San Diego Peace 
Forum, will you tell the committee, please, in just a general way what 
activities the Communist Party engaged in aside from its work in mass 
organizations ? What did they do ? 

Mrs. Schneider. The major part of its work was done in the mass 
organizations. However, there were several meetings of people with 
speakers from the People's World that did take place locally. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were they arranged by the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Schneider. I think they called themselves the Freedom of the 
Press Committee. It was the Communist Party that arranged it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, we will probably discuss that subject a little 
later. 

Mrs. Schneider. I can remember also some activity done in the 
Rosenberg case, by the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would prefer to discuss that later. 

Did the Communist Party as such engage in the dispersal of Com- 
munist Party propaganda and literature ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. There were several distributions of litera- 
ture. There was a distribution on the Smith Act, I believe ; there was 
a distribution on the Velde committee coming back to San Francisco, 
as I remember it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that this committee, the Committee on Un- 
American Activities ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. They didn't agree with your committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. We have asked you to turn over to the staff some 
of the documents which you received from the Communist Party, or 
which the Communist Party disseminated in this area. 

You have done so, haven't you ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask you what was the source of this material ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Unless one or two pamphlets accidentally crept in, 
these were all obtained from the Communist Party in San Diego. The 
majority of tliem were from Verna Danger, head of the Communist 
Party at the time I left. This is only part of them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do 3^011 know where she obtained these documents ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. She obtained them from the Progressive 
Book Store on Eighth Street, I believe, in Los Angeles. I went with 
her to Los Angeles on several occasions when she bought them. 

May I say something about these ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Schneider. It is a particularly dangerous thing, I think. The 
Communist Party members don't believe our newspapers. They re- 
gard our newspapers as merely Wall Street propaganda, that they have 
been bought and sold by the big companies. They subscribe to the 
People's World and Daily Worker. That is their daily newspaper. 
They read it and believe every word of it. They distribute these. 

Instead of Life magazine, they read these and believe every word 
of them. They have a deep personal loyalty to the Soviet Union and 
not to this country at all. 

The Chairman. That is an attractive looking magazine and I have 
seen it. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the title ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Soviet Union. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1959 

There is a new one, I don't remember the exact title ; I think it is 
New China. There should be a copy of it. It is exactly the same ex- 
cept it is from China instead of the Soviet Union. 

Mr. Jackson. To the extent all those publications were not sold, the 
coffers of the Communist Party suffered to some extent. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, but the publications are always sold. 

Mr. Jackson. "Were these sold ? 

Mrs. Schneider. One buys them. 

Mr. Jackson. These weren't sold ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Jackson. Were these sold, these copies? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. You see, Verna Langer, or whoever was 
head of the Communist Party at that time, goes to Los Angeles and 
obtains them from the Progi^essive Book Store. She brings them back 
in large quantities and then the Communist Party members locally 
buy them from her. 

Three of the requirements of the Communist Party are : First, you 
have to pay Communist Party dues ; second, you have to attend Com- 
munist Party meetings regularly; and, third, you have to read the 
Communist Party publications. 

Mr. Jackson. This material on the desk was not sold, was it? 

Mrs. Schneider. I bought it from Verna Langer and the Com- 
munist Party. Slie sold it to me as she did to the other Communist 
Party members. They are not publicly sold. 

Another booklet that is required is the Political Affairs booklet. It 
has directions to the party members from the National Communist 
Party in it each month. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Is this document which I hand you the publica- 
tion from China that you spoke of a moment ago. 

Mrs. Schneider. No. This is one of them. However, they put out 
one just exactly the same size; in fact, you can't tell it from these 
except for the difference in the title, and the pictures are a little 
different. 

The Chairman. The photography in this large one is very good. 

Mrs. Schneider. It is incredible that these magazines are printed 
in the United States and sold to party members for 20 cents apiece. 
It obviously would not cover the cost of the material as propaganda 
material. 

Mr. Tavenner. They are printed on extremely good paper, are 
they not ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, they are. 

The Chairman. Do they have the latest attack on the immigration 
laws? 

Mrs. Schneider. There is one booklet on the McCarran-Walter 
Act. 

Mr. Tavenner. See if you can find it and let the chairman see it. 

The Chairman. I am aware of all that propaganda. 

Mrs. Schneider. This is honestly a very small part of the litera- 
ture that I received. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have before me one of these documents entitled 
''The California Quarterly, Salt of the Eartli, Summer 1953." 

Will you identify that document and tell us what it is ? 



1960 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. This is a copy of the play that was made 
into a motion picture by Herbert Biberman in Los Angeles. It was 
based on the strikes in the copper mines, I believe, in New Mexico. 

Mr. Jackson. The Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers Union. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. We collected money and gave it to them. 
The movie was good. 

Mr. Doyle. One of those pamphlets on the table in front of yon is 
really not a pamphlet but a book consisting of many, many pages. 

It is a bound book consisting of how many pages ? 

Mrs. Schneider. 235 pages printed in the Union of Soviet Social- 
ist Republics called the Dawn of a Great Project. 

Mr. Doyle. How many pages are in this other book that you are 
now looking at ? What is the title ? 

Mrs. Schneider. One is High Treason, the Plot Against the Peo- 
ple, by Albert Kahn, 372 pages. 

Mr. Doyle. The book in your right hand, how many pages does 
it have ? 

Mrs. Schneider. This is The Last Illusion, America's Plan for 
World Domination, 447 pages. 

Mr. Doyle. In what year was it published ? 

Mrs. Schneider. It was in 1954. 

Mr. Doyle. I asked those questions, Mr. Chairman, to have the 
record show they were not mere paper-backed pamphlets but were 
books, many of them. 

The Chairman. It is interesting to note that this attack on the 
Walter-McCarran Immigration Act was issued by the American Com- 
mittee for the Protection of the Foreign-Born, which is a Communi^^t 
organization, and the introduction is signed by Abner Green, who is 
a well-known Communist. 

So I say I am very proud of the enemies I have made. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Abner Green speak in San Diego? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, he did. 

Here is another leaflet you might be interested in on the Velde com- 
mittee. Danger to Labor. This one is the new format of the Digest 
of Soviet News, put out by the American-Russian Institute. 

Mr. Jackson. This is not exactly apropos to the subject under 
discussion, but inasmuch as the chairman was not with the committee 
last April — I believe it was last April when the subcommittee, Mr. 
Doyle and myself were here — I came up the steps, and the present 
witness handed me a rather offensive brochure — that is, offensive as 
far as the committee was concerned — which I took a quick look at and 
promptly discarded, and although I have never asked her, as I walked 
up tlie steps, I am sure she hissed at me. I think Mrs. Schneider 
missed her calling — she should have been an actress. 

Mr. Doyle. I tliink she did the same thing substantially with me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I don't think she overlooked anyone. 

The Chairman. I am very glad I wasn't here. 

Mr. Doyle. At that time, Madame Witness, you were an FBI agent 
instead of being a bona fide Communist, were you not? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Doyle. Are we going to mention the occasion of the meeting 
later that same night ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir ; we will develop that. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1961 

Mr. Doyle. That will show you the method of infiltration of the 
Communists of San Dieg:o. 

The Chairmax. Did you buy any of this material yourself? 

Mrs. Schneider. 1 bought all of it. I have much more of it at 
home. 

The Chairman. To that extent the Department of Justice is con- 
tributing to the Communist Party, if you w^ere buying the stuff. 

Mr. Tav-enner. Well, there is another way to look at it. It was 
taken out of circulation. 

Mr. Doyle. As a matter of record, you have discussed these books 
and the pamphlets on the table and 1 am not able to count them from 
this distance, but I estimate there are more than 75 different books 
and pamphlets on the witness table there; is that correct? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, but remember, this is really a very small por- 
tion of the booklets we were sold. I spent, I am sure, between 10, 
around 10 to 12 dollars a month for booklets, and then, in addition, 
the books that we bought were more. The books that we bought that 
Avere sold, written b^^ William Z. Foster, for example, cost $6 apiece 
and they were required reading. 

Mr. Tavenner. May the committee staff retain these documents for 
a reasonable length of time to examine them more fully? 

Mrs. Schneider. Surely you may. 

This is one that might be of intei'est. This is the International 
Communist newspaper. 

Mr. Tavenner. From Prague ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it is. 

In spite of the fact that the American Communist Party is sup- 
posed to be completely independent, many of the booklets we bought, 
or were sold, rather, were from inside the Soviet Union or were direct 
publications of the International Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, as you were not in Los Angeles, I 
should probably state for your benefit that we were able to read into the 
record at that hearing resolutions, or, rather, letters addressed to the 
President of the United States, signed by a number of persons in this 
country which were transmitted by code from Prague to various parts 
of the world as Communist propaganda material, which indicates the 
use that is made of persons' signatures to letters that they do not under- 
stand the purpose of. 

Now. may I ask you to go back in your experience in tlie Communist 
Party and tell us who was the organizer of the Communist Party — 
that is, the principal leader of the Communist Party — in San Diego at 
tlie time you first became a member, and then state each successive 
person who held that position ? 

Mrs. Schneider. At the time I joined, Celia Shermis was head of 
the Communist Party. She was succeeded by Verna Langer. Yerna 
Danger was replaced by John Kykyri. 

When the Kykyris returned to Los Angeles, Verna Langer resumed 
the chairmanship. Verna was chairman when I left in January 1955. 

Mr. Taatnner. Verna Langer was subpenaed as a witness before 
this committee at the former hearing in San Diego last year and re- 
fused to testify. 

You mentioned in the earlier part of your testimony Helen Dugdale. 
What was her husband's name ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Bert Dugdale. 



1962 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where Bert Dugdale is now ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I believe lie is in the back of this room. 

Mr. Tavenner. I mean where he lives now. 

Mrs. Schneider. Unless he has moved, he lives just on the outskirts 
of the Alameda Air Station near Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that in Orange County ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I believe it is in Orange County. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you of your own knowledge know of his position 
in the Communist Party in Orange County today ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I don't know of my own knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is his position in the Communist Party in San 
Diego, if any ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I don't know what his position in the Communist 
Party is. I do know that he and his wife both were Communist Party 
members. 

Bert Dugdale was chairman of the publicity committee of the Civil 
Rights Congress at the time I joined the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he active in that field ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, he was. Helen Dugdale was active in the 
Civil Rights Congress, and during the elections she became more active 
in the Independent Progressive Party also. 

Mr. Tavenner. May we have a break at this time? 

The Chairman. Yes. The committee will stand in recess for 10 
minutes. 

(Whereupon, a short recess was taken.) 

The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 

Let the record show that present are Mr. Jackson, Mr. Doyle, and 
the chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Schneider, I hand you a photostatic copy of a 
letter appearing on the stationery of the California Labor School, Inc., 
in San Francisco, purportedly addressed to you. 

Will you examine it, please, and state what the occasion was for the 
writing of such a letter to you ? 

Mrs. Schneider. When Dr. John Kingsbury was in San Diego, he 
found that one of my shortcomings in Marxist theory was in the field 
of dialectical materialism, which I didn't understand. He suggested 
I attend courses at the California Labor School and take the course 
from Dr. Roberts, the director of the school. He said he would put 
me in touch with Dr. Roberts, and while he was in San Diego he 
invited Dr. Holland Roberts to my home and we were introduced at 
the same time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Dr. Kingsbury interested in your becoming 
more proficient as a theoretical Communist by taking courses in 
dialectical materialism ? 

Mrs. Schnetoer. Yes; he gave me a list also of over 73 books 1 
should read just to increase my general background knowledge of 
Marxist theory. 

Mr. Tavenner. WTiy was Dr. Kingsbury so interested in improving 
your Communist education ; do you know ? Was any statement made 
to him as to plans for the future or anything of that character? 

Mrs. Schneider. Well, Dr. and Mrs. Kingsbury discussed moving, 
the poss^'bilitv of moving to Laguna Beach. 

Dr. Kingsbury was considering writing his autobiography and 
suggested I might be interested in becoming his secretary when he 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1963 

wrote it. He was interested in an organizational way also in a prospec- 
tive Communist Party leader. 

Mr. Doyle. Were they not your house guests ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; they were. 

Mr. Doyle. For several days ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; they were. 

Mr. Doyle. At that time you were an FBI agent, were they your 
house guests ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Their purpose wasn't just to make a social call but 
their purpose was connected with some activity in the community, 
was it not? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes; they were invited here as speakers for the 
San Diego Peace Forum and stayed at my house as a routine thing. 
Most of our peace forum speakers did. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the letter addressed to Mrs. Schnei- 
der on the stationery of the California Labor School, Inc., in evidence 
and ask that it be marked "Schneider Exhibit 19." 

The Chairman. Let it be so marked and received. 



1964 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF,, AREA 
Schneider Exhibit No. 19 (San Diego) 



ccijifbrniq labor school; ^^1^^ 

;j2l'DivlSAPERO.ST.-"SAN f RA>>JCISCO' I 7. CALlWRNIA.,,-;' UNde't"" 3-3033- 3024..' 



HOLLAND •OIMTS 



10th onniversory year 
Fes'. 15, 1953 



Mrs. Anita Schnoidar 
i4l69 Charls'. Stroat 
La yeatk, Calif. 



I am writing you at the suggestion of o'jr tutuai frlsnds, 
John and Mabel Kingalury. They l,ave paid you a very high 
(•omplir.ont, heoause of all the peace leaderi. they net on 
their trip South, ;/ou seon.ed to then to be doing the r.cst 
sir.nificant work. 

This letter is U e?ten-! cur thanks to you for your 
cooperation in racing tjieir exporienoet avallalle.anti to 
extend ycu a corilal in-zltation to visit us at the School 
an-l the American Russian Instl'u'e, w.-«nevor you can -cme 
to the ian Francisco Bay Area. 

PerhA'.s you -.viU be interested ir. the materials : mn 
eneUsing describing our jchoi 1 progran. We -.ycul-; also Ilka 
to interest you in cur Trlondshlp Book? "Wo Pledge Peace," 
*hich is descrlhed in the an-losed leaflet. W.on it co-r.es 
o .t, v»e /mil.] apprecia'e any asjis'a.ice you can give us in 
ciiG*rl '-iting copies in bow arnus. 

It is Qlfficult for T.o to r,i>^ aA-ay frooi my work, tut if I 
should manage a trip to visit -ny aon, Andrew, I hope 1 might 



All cMiliul good wishes. 




'kuj^^ 



Eoiland Robertc, Director 
ealifomla Labor oohool 



Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to release the witness 
from the stand for the present. 

The Chairman. Will you step aside, please ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to call as the next witness Celia Shermis. 

The Chairman. Celia Shermis, will you raise your right hand. Do 
you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the 
whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Shermis. I do. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1965 

TESTIMONY OF MES. CELIA SHERMIS, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

BEN MARGOLIS 

Mr. TA^^ENIS^ ER. Will you state your name, please ? 

Mrs. Shermis. Celia Shermis. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are accom]5anied by counsel. 

Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Margolis. Ben Margolis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Margolis. E, ght. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside, Mrs. Shermis ? 

Mrs. Shermis. 1870 South Herzog, Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Los Angeles? 

Mrs. Shermis. About 2V2 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live prior to that? 

Mrs. Shermis. San Diego County. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you a resident of San Diego County ? 

Mrs. Shermis. About 9i/4 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time, where did you reside? 

Mrs. Shermis. In New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you born in New York City ? 

Mrs. Shermis. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did you first move to California? 

Mrs. Shermis. In August of 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVill you tell the committee, please, what your 
formal educational training has been ? 

Mrs. Shermis. I graduated from elementary school, went to busi- 
ness school. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what occupation are you now engaged ? 

Mrs. Shermis. I am a bookkeeper. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been a bookkeeper ? 

Mrs. Shermis. Well, it is hard to say. I just worked for a few 
years before I was married, and I have been working for about a year 
and a half now. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the 9i/^ years that you were a resident in 
San Diego County, how were you employed? 

Mrs. Shermis. I was not. I was a homemaker. I worked a very 
short period, a couple of months, as a temporary clerk in a store. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you the Communist Party organizer in San 
Diego County in 1951 ? 

Mrs. Shermis. I am sorry, sir ; I am not going to answer any ques- 
tions regarding my political alfairs. I invoke the first and fifth 
amendments of the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned you would not testify regarding 
3^our political alfairs. I am not asking about any political views or 
associations of yours. It is my purpose to inquire into Communist 
Party activities in this area. 

Were you a member of the Communist Party at any time during the 
91/2 years you lived in San Diego County? 

Mrs. Shermis. Again I am going to refuse to answer on the same 
grounds previously stated. I don't think it is the business of this 
committee to inquire into my political affairs. 



65808—55- 



1966 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you advised any persons known to you to be 
members of the Communist Party to enga^^e in Communist Party 
activities with any church or religious organization ? 

Mrs. Shermis. Will you please state the question again? I am 
sorry, I didn't hear. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you read the question, please ? 

(The pending question was read by the reporter.) 

Mrs. Shermis. Religion is personal property of every person, and I 
don't think it is the province of this committee to inquire as to whether 
or not people are members of what church, what organization. 

The Chairman. This committee is not doing that, and you know it, 
so do not try to becloud the issue. You were asked a simple question, 
and what is your answer ? 

(Witness confers with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Shermis. My answer is that I decline to state my opinions — 
rather, I decline to state anything regarding the Communist Party 
or any political affairs. 

Mr. Tavenner. For what reasons do you decline ? 

Mrs. Shermis. I am protected by the first and fifth amendments of 
the Constitution and I am sure the Supreme Court will uphold that. 

The Chairman. You are very fortunate to live in a country where 
there is a Supreme Court with that power. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now? 

Mr. Margolis. Will you wait a minute, please; just a moment. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. I withdraw my question. 

Were you a member of the San Diego Peace Forum while you were 
residing in San Diego County ? 

Mrs. Shermis. I think peace organizations are very necessary in any 
country. 

The Chairman. Were you a member of this peace organization ? 

Mrs. Shermis. I decline to state, sir. 

The Chairman. Why ? 

Mrs. Shermis. On the grounds of the first and the fifth amendments 
of the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Civil Eights Congress 
while living in San Diego County ? 

Mrs. Shermis. I think that you are inquiring into my private life, 
and I don't think you have the right to do that, and again I am going 
to decline to state on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Ta\t3nner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not 
you were aware of any effort being made by the Communist Party to 
influence or control the activity of the Independent Progressive Party 
in San Diego County during the period that you lived here and during 
the existence of that party ? 

(The witness conferred with her attorney.) 

Mrs. Shermis. That is the same question, sir, that you asked me a 
little while ago. You are just rephrasing it, and you are wasting my 
time, the taxpayers' money, and I am going to refuse to answer that 
question. 

The Chairman. What is your answer ? 

Mrs. Shermis. I decline to state. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1967 

Mr. Jacksox. Mr. Chairman, I think it is quite obvious that this 
witness is not going to give the committee any information with re- 
spect to anything she may know of the Communist Party in San 
Diego. I see no reason for prolonging the interrogation. 

The Chairman. I am not a bit surprised when I saw this whole 
tiling being set up. 

Have you any other questions you think ought to be asked ? 

Mr. Tavenxer. Yes; I would like to ask one further question. 

Did you hold any executive position in the Independent Progressive 
Party ^ 

Mrs. Shermis. Same question, sir, and the same answer. 

Mr. Ta\t:xxer. Are 3'ou now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Shermis. Same question, same answer. 

Mr. Tavexxer. I have no further questions. 

The Ciiairmax. Same question ^ 

Mrs. Shermis. Yes; I said I was not going to answer any ques- 
tions 

The Chairmax. Just a minute. 

Mr. ]\Iargolis. Why don't you let her finish ? 

The Chairmax. You may keep quiet. "We are being very tolerant 
to allow you to sit here. 

Mr. Margolis. You are being tolerant to let her have right to 
counsel ? 

The Chairmax. We are tolerant allowing you to be here. 

Mr. ]\Iargolis. Me ? You mean you are tolerant because she has 
counsel ( 

The Chairman. Xot because she has counsel, but because 

Mr. Tavenner, what was your question ( 

Mr. Margolis. Are you attacking me ? If so, I want to answer you, 
and I will. 

The Chairmax. You have been interrogated and have taken the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Margolis. I have been interrogated once by this committee and 
I took the fifth amendment, and I will take it again, and the Supreme 
Court says you can't draw any conclusions from my taking it. 

Mr. Jackson. Regular order. 

Mr. Margolis. I protest. I jDrotest your attempt to harass the wit- 
ness through her counsel. 

The Chairmax. Do you have any further questions ? 

Mr. Tavexxer. I have no further questions. 

The Chairmax. Please call your next witness. 

Mr. Margolis. ]\Ir. Chairman, may I call your attention to the fact 
that when there are witnesses — ■ — 

Audience Voices. Sit down. 

Mr. Margolis. These people 

Audience Voices. Sit down. 

The Chairmax. Call your next witness. 

INIr. Margolis. Apparently they can get away with anything if they 
are friendly to the committee, but if anybody said anything friendly 
to the witness, they would be thrown out. 

Mr. Tavexxer. John Kvkvri. 



1968 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

The Chairman. Do you swear that the testimony you are about to 
give will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ; do you so swear ? 

Mr. Kykyri. Yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN KYKYKI, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

BEN MAEGOLIS 

Ml'. Tavenner. Wliat is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Kykyri. John Kykyri. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted the same counsel accompanies you who 
accompanied the former witness. 

When and where were you born, Mr. Kykyri ? 

Mr. Kykyri. I was born in Sparta, Minn., December 13, 1898. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in San Diego ? 

Mr. Kykyri. I do not, sir. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Where do you live ? 

Mr. Kykyri. I live in Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Kykyri. Approximately a year and a half. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time, where did you reside ? 

Mr. Kykyri. I lived in San Diego County. 

Mr. Tavenner. Plow long were you a resident of San Diego? 

Mr. Kykyri. I would say about two and a half years. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your professional occupation? 

Mr. Kykyri. I am a newspaperman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a reporter ? 

Mr. Kykyri. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed while you lived two and a 
half years in San Diego ? 

Mr. Kykyri. I was employed in various occupations. I was not in 
the newspaper profession. 

Mr. Tavenner. "What profession were you in ? 

Mr. Kykyri. I was a common laborer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold any other position while being a com- 
mon laborer? 

Mr. Kykyri. I was a truck driver. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any other employment besides that 
of a truck driver ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Kykyri. I did not have any other employment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage in any other work while engaged 
as a truck driver? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Kykyri. What is your definition of "work"? 

Mr. Tavenner. I will let you define it. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. IvYKYiii. I can't answer the question until I can understand it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage in any employment, whether for 
compensntion or not, other than that of being a truck driver while you 
lived in San Diego? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Kykyri. I am trying to puzzle this out. Employment. That 
means compensation, doesn't it? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1969 

Mr. Tavenner. I said without compensation, 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Kykyri, I wasn't on anybody's payroll, 

Mr. Tavenner. That was not my question. 

Will you answer the question, please? 

(The witness conferred with liis counsel.) 

Mr. Kykyri, I don't understand the question any further than that, 
sir, 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold a position of any character in San 
Diego County, whether for compensation or not, during the period 
(hat you lived in San Diego County, other than that of being a truck 
driver ? 

Mr. Kykyri. Any other position. I can't recall any other position 
at the moment. 

The Chairman, Were you an organizer for the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kykyri, That is a question that goes into my private and politi- 
cal beliefs. This conunittee is on a witch-hunting expedition, it is 
here for smear purpose, goes into my associations as a newspaper man, 
and I plead the first amendment and the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. Wliat newspaper are you employed by? 

Mr, Kykyri. That question goes into my 

The Chairman. You were so anxious to have us ask you about your 
employment. I asked you very frankly and simply : Where are you 
now employed ? 

Mr. Kykyri. Mr, Chairman, I beg your pardon. I am not anxious 
about your questions, I don't care about people being smeared, I 
don't care about people being unfairly treated before this committee. 

The Chairman, Where are you employed at the present time ? 

Mr. Kykyri, I refuse to state under the first and fifth amendments, 
the first amendment particularly, because I am a newspaper man and 
the first amendment 

The Chairman, You say you are a newspaper man ? 

Mr. Kykyri, Yes. 

The Chairman, Are you employed by the San Diego newspapers ? 

Mr, Kykyri, I am not employed in San Diego, I am not residing 
in San Diego. I made that clear already. 

The Chairman, What newspaper employed you ? 

Mr. Kykyri, I refuse to answer on the basis of the first and fifth 
amendments, 

Mr, Jackson. I ask that the witness be directed to answer. 

The Chairman, You are directed to answer the question as to your 
employment, 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Kykyri. Mr. Chairman, I will stand on my answer. 

The Chairman. Go ahead, Mr. Tavenner, 

Mr. Tavenner, Have you at any time been employed by the Peo- 
ple's World? 

Mr, Kykyri. Look, I have answered the question already. 

The Chairman. This is the first time you have been asked that 
question. 

Mr. Kykyri. Then if that isn't clear, this is a fishing expedition, and 
I will answer the same as I answered a moment ago. 



1970 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Jackson. Do I understand you decline to answer the question? 

Mr. Kykyri. On the same ground as the previous question. 

Mr. Doyle. I didn't know that w^orking for a responsible news- 
paper could incriminate a person. 

The Chairman. Your question is predicated on a false premise. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you relieve Verna Danger as the organizational 
head of the Communist Party in San Diego ? 

Mr. Kykyri. This is the same kind of a smearing question, I re- 
fuse to answer it on the same grounds, the first and the fifth amend- 
ments. I have my right to my associations, I think, under the Con- 
stitution. 

Mr. TaViEnner. Will you tell the committee, please, if you know, 
what part the Communist Party has played in San Diego in the or- 
ganization of the Independent Progressive Party? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Kykyri. Mr. Jackson just a few minutes ago indicated that this 
line of questioniiig was a waste of time and the taxpayers' money. I 
think we could let it go at that. 

The Chairman. That was the last witness. 

We think this is no waste of time because we know you can give us 
the kind of information the people of the United States have charged 
us with the responsibility of getting, and you have a great opportunity 
at this minute, so we do not consider this a waste of any time at all. 
You take all the time you like. 

Mr. Kykyri. It is a waste of time, isn't it ? 

The Chairman. It is not a waste of my time, 

Mr. Kykyri. I think it is a waste of time because I refuse to answer 
the question on the first and the fifth amendments. Det's proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now? 

Mr. Kykyri. Come, that question is right along the same line. I 
refuse to answer it on the same grounds, the first and the fifth amend- 
ments, and I don't want it implied that I am guilty of anythng. I am 
an innocent, honest American citizen like the rest of the people. 

Mr. Jackson. "Me thinketh he doth protest too much," Mr. Chair- 
man. 

Mr. Kykyri. Mr. Jackson, you have had those protests from your 
Government witnesses here all the time, all the morning; a pair of 
stool pigeons, by the way. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not 
you are now a reporter for the People's World ? 

Mr. Kykyri. May I have that question again, please ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not 
you are at the present time a news reporter for the People's World? 

Mr. Kykyri, I believe I have answered that question twice. 

Mr, Tavenner. No, you have not. 

The Chairman. Let's try it again. 

Are you a reporter for the People's World ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Kykyri, I think I will give you the same answer, Mr. Chair- 
man. 

The Chairman. In other words, you refuse to answer because of 
the privileges given to you by the Constitution of the greatest Kepublic 
in the world, is that it ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1971 

Mr. Ktkyri. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You wouldn't want to amend that statement, would 
you? 

Mr. Kykyri. No, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all, sir. 

The Chairjman. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bert Dugdale. 

Mr. Dugdale. Can we have no pictures, please, on this ? 

The Chairman. At the outset, we believe in freedom of the press. 

Mr. Dugdale. I protest. 

The Chairman. Raise your right hand. 

Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Dugdale. Yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF BEET 0. DUGDALE, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

BEN MAEGOLIS 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Dugdale. My name is Bert O. Dugdale? 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted you are accompanied by the same comisel 
as accompanied the previous witness. 

When and where were you born, Mr. Dugdale ? 

Mr. Dugdale. I was born in Pomona in 1903. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you also known by the name of Bert? 
Do you have the nickname "Bert" ? 

Mr. Dugdale. Yes; 1 am known by the name of Bert. I am also 
known by the name of Doug sometimes. 

Mr. Tavenner. 'V^'liere do you now reside? 

Mr. Dugdale. Los Alamitos. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your occupation? 

Mr. Dugdale. I am at present a gardener. I mow lawns for a 
living. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived at your present place of 
residence ? 

Mr. Dugdale. Approximately 4 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time, where did you reside? 

Mr. Dugdale. In San Diego. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. How long did you live in San Diego? 

Mr. Dugdale. I have lived in San Diego off and on for a period 
of twenty-some-odd years, not continuously. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you engage in anj^ other business at your present 
place of residence besides the type of work which you have described ? 

Mr. Dugdale. I was a machinist for a number of years because I 
enjoyed that work and until the time that I was first out of that 
employment because of the activities of a predecessor of this committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. What did the predecessor of this committee have 
to do with your loss of employment ? 

Mr. Dugdale. It has come to my attention, and it follows through 
in my own case, that many people lost their jobs immediately upon 
being brought up before such a committee as this. That has been true 
of a number of people tliat were brought up before Jack Tenney's 
committee, and was true in my case. 



1972 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Taa^nner. Were you brought up before this committee? 

Mr. DiJGDALE. I was brought up before the Tenney committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were not brought up before this committee 
until now ; is that true ? 

Mr. DuGDALE. Am I in error in saying that the Tenney committee 
was a predecessor of this committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. You certainly are. 

Mr. Dugdale. I beg your pardon. 

]Mr. Ta^t:nner. Did your being brought before the Tenney commit- 
tee have anything to do with Communist Party activities? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Dugdale. I confused the two committees because the Tenney 
committee obviously was engaged in the same type of witch-hunt that 
characterizes the work of this committee. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Suppose you answer my question. You are not 
answering it. 

Mr. Dugdale. Will you repeat the question, please ? 

]\Ir. Tavenner. My question was this : Were you brought before 
the Tenney committee on any matter relating to communism ? 

Mr. Dugdale. The witnesses before the Tenney committee, as 
applies to the witnesses before this committee, are not charged with 
anything. I was given to understand that the Tenney committee was 
engaged in such an investigation. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have told us you were brought in before the 
Tenney committee. I want to find out about what. 

You just tell us why you were brought before the Tenney committee. 

Mr. Dugdale. If you are more versed on the subject of what the 
Tenney committee was required to do than I am 

Mr. Jackson. I ask that the witness be required to answer. 

The Chairman. He said as a result of being called before the Ten- 
nev committee he lost his position. 

Mr. Dugdale. That is correct. 

The Chairman. We are giving you a great opportunity to clear 
this wrong that was done you, so answer the questions and the atmos- 
phere will be cleared. 

Mr. DuGDAi^. I don't think you are gi^dng me any such op- 
portunity. 

The Chairman. Yes ; we are going to give you the chance to answer 
a lot of questions. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Go ahead, Mr. Tavenner, and give this man an 
opportunity. 

Sir. Tavenner. What were you brought before the Tenney com- 
mittee for ? 

Mr. Dugdale. I haven't that information at my fingertips. I can't 
answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you brought before the Tenney com- 
mittee ? 

Mr. Dugdale. I can only presume certain things, and I may be in 
error on them. 

The Chairman. Don't make a mistake. What questions were you 
asked by the Tenney committee ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1973 

Mr. DuGDALE. It has been 5, or 6, or 7 years, I think, since then and 
I can't recall. 

The Chairman. You ask the questions, Mr. Tavenner, not based on 
any other proceedings. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you brought before the Tenney 
committee ? 

Mr. DuGDALE. I can't give you a date on that. It seems to me it 
was about 7 years ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time, had you been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dugdale. That question obviously is a question which I am pro- 
tected by the first and fifth amendments of the constitution of the 
United States from having to answer. I therefore rely on this in 
refusing to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. What did you state was the place of your residence 
at this time ? 

Mr, Dugdale. Los Alamitos, Calif. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that in Orange County ? 

Mr. Dugdale. That is. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you presently the Communist Party organizer 
of Orange County ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Dugdale. I refuse to answer any questions concerning my sup- 
posed knowledge in the Communist Party on the grounds of the first 
and fifth amendments to the Constitution. 

The Chairman. You weren't asked about knowledge of the Com- 
munist Part}^ You were asked a specific question. 

Are you the Communist Party organizer today in Orange County ? 

Mr. Dugdale. I see. I will refuse to answer any questions concern- 
ing the Conmiunist Party on the basis of the existence of the first and 
the fifth amendments to the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. While you lived in San Diego County, were you 
active in an organization known as the Independent Progressive 
Party? 

Mr. Dugdale. I think that question comes in the same category, and 
I shall refuse to answer it for the same reason as given. 

Mr. Tavenner. On what do you base your statement that a ques- 
tion relating to the Independent Progressive Party was the same as 
the question relating to Communist Party membership ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Dugdale. This committee appears to be attempting to levy 
some kind of an economic reprisal against people belonging to either 
one of these organizations and several other organizations that have 
been mentioned. 

For that reason, I refuse to participate in this sort of a deal and do 
not wish to answer the question. I rely on the first and fifth amend- 
ments of the Constitution in refusing. 

The Chairman. You refused to answer the question a moment ago 
as to whether or not you were a member of the Independent Progres- 
sive Party because you said it was the same as the other question relat- 
ing to the Communist Party. 

By that, do I understand you to mean that they are synonymous ? 



1974 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. DuGDALE. I didn't say they were synonymous. I said as far as 
my relation to the question is concerned, there was a sufficient simi- 
larity for me to give you the same answer. Is that clear ? 

The Chairman. Yes ; it is very clear to me. 

I would go further than that and say that they are one and the same 
thing. 

Mr. DuGDALE. That is your privilege, of course. 

The Chairman. Of course it is, and I don't plead the first and fifth 
amendments when I say it. 

Mr. DuGDALE. No ; I wouldn't either if I were siting up there. 

Mr. Jackson. Why don't you run for Congress and you might be 
sitting up here, although I doubt it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether you 
were active while in San Diego in the Civil Rights Congress ? 

Mr. DuGDALE. No; I will not tell the committee that on the basis 
of the first and fifth amendments to the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party while 
you resided in San Diego County ? 

Mr, DuGDALE. I don't know why you keep asking me that question. 
It is obvious that I am not going to answer that question because of 
reasons stated. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you decline to answer ? 

]\Ir. DuGDALE. I decline for reasons stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you active in the San Diego Peace Forum 
while you resided in San Diego? 

Mr. DuGDALE. That question I will refuse to answer because of the 
grounds previously stated. 

Mr, Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. I just don't quite understand that. You refuse to 
answer the question about the peace movement because it might in- 
criminate you or because you might incriminate yourself? What is 
criminal about this peace activity ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. DuGDALE. Whether I think anything is criminal about a com- 
mittee or not is beside the point. The committees that are under in- 
vestigation seem to be regarded as criminal, and I have stated my 
reasons for refusing to answer the question. 

The Chairman. Any further questions ? 

The witness is excused. 

Is there anything further ? 

The committee will stand in recess until 9 : 30 in the morning. Those 
witnesses who are under subpena to be here today will be here to- 
morrow morning, 

(Whereupon, at 4 : 10 p, m., the hearing recessed, to reconvene at 
9 : 30 a. m. of the following day.) 



INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN 
THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 



WEDNESDAY, JULY 6, 1955 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

San Diego^ California. 

PUBLIC hearing 

A subcommittee of the Committee on the Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to recess, at 9 : 30 a. m., Chamber of Commerce Build- 
ing, 435 West Broadway, San Diego, Calif., Hon. Francis E. Walter 
(chairman ) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter, 
Clyde Doyle, and Donald L. Jackson. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, counsel; William A. 
Wheeler, staff investigator, and Deputy Sheriff' Robert S. Newsom, 
San Diego County. 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Tavenner, are you ready to proceed ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. I would like to recall Mrs. Schneider. 
Mrs. Schneider has been sworn. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. ANITA BELL SCHNEIDER— Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Schneider, you advised the committee yester- 
day of general directions given by the Communist Party to its mem- 
bers to work or to endeavor to work within church organizations. 
You have described to the committee the activities of Communist 
Party members within the Community Unitarian Fellowship. You 
have also told the committee about your own specific assignments to 
endeavor to work in church organizations. 

I ask you whether or not assignments were given to other members 
of the Communist Party to work in church organizations. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; these assignments were given to other Com- 
munist Party members. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were any of them successful, in doing any organ- 
izational work within churches ? 

Mrs. Schneider. None of the Communist Party members that were 
assigned to church work were successful as far as I know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then there should be no reflection of any character 
cast upon the churches to which these individuals were assigned. On 

1975 



1976 COMjVIUNIST activities in the SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

the contrary they are to be commended for not permitting it to be 
successful. Will you proceed to tell us about those assignments ? 

The Chairman. Mrs. Schneider, was this college professor whose 
case was finally disposed of yesterday by the Supreme Court, a 
Communist ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; he was. 

The Chairman. I ask that question because I heard a radio broad- 
cast this morning which was slanted that while he had refused to 
answer questions asked him by this committee and the board of educa- 
tion, as a matter of principle, he had told some newspaper men that 
he was not a member of the Communist Party. But are you now stat- 
ing under oath that he was a Communist ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. When he said he was not a Communist Party 
member he was not under oath. When he was asked the same question 
under oath he refused to testify about it. 

The Chairman. I understand that. What disturbed me was this 
very obvious attempt on the part of a news commentator this morning 
to create the impression that there was doubt as to whether or not he 
was a Communist. 

Mr. Steinmetz. That is a lie. I speak as the one referred to. That 
is a lie. 

The Chairman. You know what 3^011 can do about it. Sit dow^n, 
please. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you work with Mr. Harry Steinmetz in the 
Civil Rights Congress work? 

Mrs. Schneider. No ; I didn't work with Dr. Steinmetz in the Civil 
Rights Congress work. When I was first asked to join the Civil Rights 
Congress I was given a membership application to make out. I took 
it to Dr. Steinmetz on the college campus and asked for his advice 
about joining the organization. He said that I was too nice a girl 
to get mixed up in the same kind of red baiting that he had been 
subjected to during his life, that I should not join the organization 
officially, but that I should do as he did, support it in every way, to 
contribute money to it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of what organization are you speaking ? 

Mrs. Schneider. The Civil Rights Congress. I should contribute 
money to it, that I should continue to give it support but that I should 
keep my name off of its official membership list in order to avoid prose- 
cution. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee about the assignments 
of members of the Communist Party to work in church organizations 
in San Diego. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. In cases of which I was aware Dorothy 
Kykyri had discussed the church attendance with several Communist 
Party members. In my case we discussed wliich church in my locality 
would be the best one for me to work in. I slightly exaggerated my 
success in chinch work with the result that the other Communist Party 
members came to me for advice asking how they could improve their 
work in churches also. Paul Sleeth, who was a member of the Com- 
munist Party, discussed his attendance at the Pacific Beach Methodist 
Church, said he had been very unsuccessful and asked for suggestions 
about improving his work in it. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1977 

Arthur Stevens discussed his church work. He said that he had 
been attending the Asbury Methodist Church at one time. June Lang- 
don discussed her church assignment. Slie said she had been directed 
to work in the Jewish Community Center which was a new organi- 
zation at that time. 

Originally, Celia Shermis and Verna Langer had discussed it with 
me. Celia Shermis made the statement that if Verna Langer could 
sing in the choir I could certainly teach a Sunday School class. I don't 
remember any others that had been definitely assigned to churches. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have described the use that the San Diego Peace 
Forum made of certain facilities for showing propaganda films. Was 
there any other activity in this field in which the Communist Party 
took part in San Diego? Was any organization formed, in which 
the Communist Party played any part, which had for its purpose the 
showing of films ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. In the summer of 1953, I believe, the Com- 
munist Party started an organization called the Little Theater Film 
Club which operated for about a month or 5 weeks in San Diego which 
showed films at the Puppet Theater in Balboa Park once a week dur- 
ing that time. The original organizer of the group was an ex-Com- 
munist, I don't know whether you want me to name him or not. He 
was applying for readmittance into the Communist Party at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. You do not know of your own knowledge that he 
was a former member of the Communist Party, but you do know he 
was asking for admittance into the Communist Party, is that correct? 

Mrs. Schneider. He had asked me to check on his New York Com- 
munist Party membership to find out what had been the disposition 
of his case when it was brought up before the Communist Party, 
whether there was any chance of his regaining ground and he gave me 
the name of the Communist Party organizer to ask in Xew York. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think you should advise the committee about that. 

Mrs. Schneider. His name was Eddie Forrey. That has been some 
time ago. I reported the matter to the Federal Bureau of Investiga- 
tion. I don't remember the name of the Communist Party organizer 
in New York any longer, but Mr. Forrey was a member of the party, 
I believe, for about 7 years and was very active, he was a merchant sea- 
man. He said he struck a superior officer aboard ship and was ex- 
pelled from his union and from the — No, he was expelled from the 
Communist Party because they thought he was an FBI undercover 
agent. He had been an alcoholic, he came to San Diego and was try- 
ing to rebuild his life and got a job but he worked on the film club for 
about a month in trying to regain his position in the party. He was 
unsuccessful. 

Mr. Tavenner. In connection with the films that weve used by that 
organization, did you have any part in obtaining films for its use? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I did. 

The wife of my Communist Party attorney in Los Angeles was the 
one who arranged a series of films in the First Unitarian Church. I 
contacted him for information about where we could get the kind of 
films we wanted to show before a progressive group. He said I should 
telephone Jim Wallace at the Western Cinema Guild in San Francisco 
and reach them through him. 

Mr. Tavenner. What steps did you then take ? 



1978 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF,, AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. The films that we got were rather old ones, some 
of them were from inside the Soviet Union, most of the shorts that we 
got were. All of them Avere extremelj^ left tilms. However, one of the 
very last ones that had been shown for a very long time on the tele- 
Tision, so we found it necessary to apply to the Peace Film Center they 
were showing, which showed it as a substitute. This was Adventure 
in Bukhara and also was made inside the Soviet Union. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee what steps you took 
in making application for those films ? 

Mrs. Schneider. We sent for catalogs from a progressive film group 
that I was aware of. They all sent us their catalogs. The film club I 
believe was considered successful. We had between 75 and 125 people 
in attendance each week and for a left-wing group in San Diego that 
is terrifically successful. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this a nonprofit organization? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, that is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you obtain any film service from the Western 
Cinema Guild ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, we did. They were the group that arranged 
our series of films. 

Mr. Tavenner. What steps did you take to contact that organiza- 
tion ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That was the grou]) that was recommended by the 
attorney's wife in Los Angeles. I telephoned and wrote to them to ar- 
range the films. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you say an attorney's wife ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you consult Peter Hyun in regard to any of 
these matters? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I did. I discussed it with him. I met him 
at the home of Henry and Edith Siskind, S-i-s-k-i-n-d, in Los Angeles, 
and we discussed it there. They are in charge of the Peace Film 
Center there. We discussed continuing it as a regular thing in San 
Diego. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have mentioned Mr. and Mrs. Siskind. I 
think you should make it clear at this point as to whether or not you 
knew them to be members of the Communist Party. 

Mrs. Schneider. I do not mean to mention their names. I did not 
know them in that relationship. While I was in their home Peter 
Hyun came in and it was then that we discussed the film group. 

Mr. Tavenner. So there should be no connotation to your having 
mentioned their names in connection with this matter ? 

Mrs. Schneider. No, I am sorry for doing it. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all right. Did you later contact another 
film distributor or organization regarding production of films, or dis- 
cussion of films ? 

Mrs. Schneider. We were considering reorganizing the Peace 
Forum into a film group. We discussed that with the head of the 
American-Russian Institute in Los Angeles, Reva Mucha. I believe 
though that we discussed that in connection with the Peace Forum. 

( Representative Walter left the hearing room. ) 

Mr Tavenner. Did you have any correspondence with Herbert 
Biberman on the subject ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1979 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I did. The production of Biberman's film 
Salt of the Earth had been delayed for some time because of the lack 
of money. He had contacted, I don't remember who first wrote — he 
wrote to us after I had asked the attorney in Los Angeles for sugges- 
tions for our film club. Biberman wrote to us suggesting that 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the name of that attorney ? Have you 
referred to that attorney prior to this in the course of your testimony ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is his name ? 

Mr. Schneider. Richard Rykoif . 

Mr. Ta-\^nner. I hand you an original letter bearing date of Au- 
gust 23, 1953, purportedly signed by Herbert Biberman, and I ask you 
to identify it and state whether or not you received it. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. May the document be marked as "Schneider Ex- 
hibit No. 20." (San Diego.) 

I ask that the Biberman letter relative to the proposed financing for 
the picture Salt of the Earth be incorporated in the record. 

Mr. Doyle (presiding) . It is so received. 

(The letter referred to follows :) 

Dear Anita Schneider : This note goes off to you after a talk with Richard 
Rykoff. I would like to identify myself as the director of the motion picture 
Salt of the Earth * * * and I write you in its behalf. 

Firstly, in spite of every obstacle, placed in our path by various governmental 
individuals and agencies * * * and private and public hoodlums * * * we have 
brought the picture through its assembly stages * * * and are now at the gates 
of the final process which will complete it. 

The net effect of the attacks upon us has been nil so far as the quality and 
effectiveness of the picture is concerned. The picture is untouched. But these 
interferences have been damaging financially * * * that is to say they have 
raised our budget by about I'O percent. 

Secondly, the script of the picture which accompanies this note, has been sent 
to over a thousand leaders of public opinion in this country and the world * * * 
it will be published in many countries in the near future. In Mexico, it will be 
serialized in Nacioual, the Government newspaper beginning the end of this com- 
ing week. It will develop even more deeply the great interest and public appe- 
tite for this film which was so greatly stimulated at the time of Congressman 
Jackson's attack upon it in the halls of Congress while it was being made. 

Thirdly, we have already received inquiries from many countries all over the 
w^orld asking for release dates and prices. We have just about concluded ar- 
rangements for the distribution of the film in Mexico and Latin America. 

Fourthly, the press in our country has been invaluable in placing its stamp 
of approval on the Americanism of this script. It was done by the New York 
Times in a special article from the chief of its Los Angeles staff. Only 3 days 
ago a leading editorial in the Sante Fe New Mexican * * * (a leading daily 
paper in Sante Fe, the capital of the State of New Mexico, where the picture 
was shot and where we had so much difficulty in the last days of shooting) 
wrote : "We have just read Salt of the Earth and we state that it is not sub- 
versive. A union has as much right to make a picture from its point of view 
as employers have to make them from their point of view. Any attempt to inter- 
fere with or prohibit the exhibition of this picture will be in the same class with 
book-burning." 

Fifthly, because of the clear issue in this matter, the support for our show- 
ings in this country will have behind it one of the most important collections of 
people and organizations yet mustered in the cultural field. This picture will 
become in the opinion of many otherwise disinterested persons, the most impor- 
tant offensive action against McCarthyism yet made available to the people of 
our country. It is therefore important and urgent that it be completed with all 
speed. 

Sixthly, even if all this were not true, it would be deserving of support in its 
own right. It is a beautiful, moving, optimistic propeople film without compare 
in American films. It has a tremendous audience appeal on a worldwide basis. 



1980 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Now, for the reason this letter is addressed to you : 

We raised, as loans, for a period of 2 years, with interest of 10 percent per 
annum, the sum of $125,000 to make this film. Had the attacks not come, we 
should have completed it well within that original budget * * * representing 
a cost for this film which is only one-lifth of what it would have cost any siudio 
to make it. We have contributed all our services * * * writer, director, pro- 
ducer and others on staff level. We are committed to returning every penny 
we have raised plus interest before we will take a penny from the returns of 
this picture. It was because of this that we were able to raise the necessary 
sums to make the picture. 

But with the delays and problems which the attacks forced us to cope with in 
addition to normal problems of production, we require an additional $20,000 to 
complete the film. We require this immediately in order that the film may be 
completed within the shortest possible period of time * * * 8 to 10 weeks, if the 
necessary funds are quickly obtained. 

We seek to raise this sum in exactly the same way * * * as loans * * * for 
2 yeai'S * * * with interest at 10 percent per annum. 

I had wished to reach one given individual in San Diego, and discussed this 
with Dick. He suggested that before I did anything in this direction, I ought 
to write you and seek to enlist your assistance in this matter. . 

Perhaps any of the following things might be done : 

1. Certain individuals might be spoken to by you in advance of my coming 
down. 

2. If there are a group of 6 or 8 who are sufficiently close to each other so that 
they could be assembled at one time * * * a date set for me to meet with them. 
(At which time I could see others who might better be seen individually.) 

3. Perhaps in certain instances you might be able to complete such arrange- 
ments even without my presence. 

We do not take any loan of under $1,000. 

We are not seeking gifts * * * but loans upon a material basis of a film com- 
pleted in all but its most final stages. 

I know you will permit me to say this * * * we are all terribly occupied 
and the loss of several days is most difficult at this moment. Therefore, we would 
not wish to come to San Diego unless we were reasonably certain of being able 
to obtain a good share of what we require. 

Our interest in bringing San Diego into the picture is varied. We require 
money * * * yes * * * but we would also like to have people there participating 
in and therefore rooted somewhat more closely to the entire future of the picture. 

I would add one last point : we have ways of guaranteeing the individuals who 
make loans that their names will in no way be of record * * * and yet of 
establishing their monetary identity without question. We could not have 
raised the sums we have raised unless this had been satisfactorily arranged 
for many people. 

I am certain you will accept the directness and frankness of this letter * * * 
in the interest of the project. 

Dick tried to reach you last week and was unable to so do. I am writing 
this in order that it may be before you on your return * * * and I will be most 
happy to hear from you as soon as possible. 

My address and telephone are listed below for you. 

Need I add, my most sincere gratitude for your attention to, and what I 
know will be your interest in the matters it describes. 

Most sincerely yours, 

(s) Herbert Biberman, 
3259 Deronda Drive, Hollyioood 28, California, Hollywood 3-8366. 

Mr. TavejVner. I read from the letter as follows : 

I had wished to reach one given individual in San Diego and discussed this with 
Dick. He suggested that before I did anything in this direction, I ought to 
write you and seek to enlist your assistance in this matter. Perhaps any of 
the following things might be done : 

1. Certain individuals might be spoken to by you in advance of my coming 
down. 

2. If there are a group of 6 or 8 who are sufficiently close to each other so 
that they could be assembled at one time * * * a date set for me to meet with 
them. (At which time I could see others who might better be seen individually.) 

3. Perhaps, in certain instances you might be able to complete such arrange- 
ments even without my presence. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1981 

Do you know whether that had reference to this group which had 
been organized or what group was he speaking of when he referred to 
"certain individuals might be spoken to by you" ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I hesitate to answer that. It would be my interpre- 
tation of it if you want that. 

Mr. Tavenner. No; not if you do not know positively. Were you 
requested to assist in financing the production of the picture Salt of 
the Earth ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes; we were. We were asked to try to raise in 
San Diego $20,000 to help in the financing of the picture. It seemed 
like quite a bit particularly when they wanted it in loans of not less 
than a thousand dollars per person. 

Mr. Jackson. May I interject a question? I don't like to break 
your train of thought. You say we were asked — by "'we,'' whom do 
you mean? 

Mrs. Schneider. I was asked. 

Mr. Jackson. You were asked. As a result of what? Was that to 
be a subscription from any one from whom money could be raised, or 
was it an appeal to the Communist Party ? What I am trying to do 
is to tie clown the source from which this money was hoped to be 
derived. 

Mrs. Schneider. My interpretation of it was it was an appeal to 
the Communist Party to help finance the picture. I took the problem 
to my Communist Party club and discussed it with Verna Danger and 
she merely laughed at the idea of raising $20,000 in the Conununist 
Party in San Diego. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of a copy of a letter 
addressed to Mr. Biberman bearing date of August 24, 1953. Will 
you examine it, please, and state whether or not you wrote that letter 
to Mr. Biberman? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; I wrote the letter. 

Mr. Tavenner. May it be marked for identification only as 
"Schneider Exhibit No. 21.'' (San Diego.) 

Mr. Doyle. It will be so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will read a portion of it. 

Dear Mr. Biberman : The reason Dick was unable to reach me was that I had 
been extremely busy organizing a tilni club for the exact purpose of insuring the 
best possible showing of your motion picture here in San Diego. The leaflet 
enclosed will show some of our work. We have the use of an excellent little 
theater, good publicity all over the city, well known sponsors and feel certain 
that the club will be well enough established when Salt of the Earth is distrib- 
uted to reach as many people as can be done. 

Raising some of the money you need, it seems to mo at least, should not be 
impossible. I am going to talk to several persons tomorrow and will let you 
know the results at once. "Us wealthy capitalists" should be able to give you 
the backing you must have for an enterprise of such value to all of us. 

Was a campaign conducted to raise funds for the production of 
Sah of the Earth? 

Mva. ScHNEmER. No; it wasn't. After discussing it with the head 
of the Communist Party and finding that it was disapproved, we 
didn't even try. I delayed in answering the letter and Mr. Biberman 
telephoned to me from Hollywood asking me about the results. I 
had to tell him that we couldn't raise the money in San Diego. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you given any directions about terminating 
the activities of this particular club, little theater club? 

65808—55 6 



1982 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; I was. It was discussed at my regular Com- 
munist Party club meeting with Verna Langer. Although it was a suc- 
cess and many party members attended and it was attracting outsiders 
as well, I was told the Communist Party was using it as a substitute for 
action and it should be discontinued for that reason. People would 
come to the picture and watch the picture and then go home and then 
they weren't willing to spend as much time on their Communist Party 
work, so I was told to discontinue the group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you discontinue it? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have testified that one of the activities of the 
Communist Party in the San Diego area was work within the Inde- 
pendent Progressive Party. Will you tell the connnittee, please, the 
circumstances under which you became affiliated with the Independent 
Progressive Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. One of the first meetings that I attended was 
an opening meeting at the Filipino- American Veterans Hall on Market 
Street, I believe, at which Horace Alexander spoke. I filled out a card 
saying that I was willing to work in the Independent Progressive 
Party. At first the card wasn't answered, I wasn't contacted. I went 
to a Civil Rights Congress meeting where I met Lolita Gibson and 
Laura Stevenson Elston. 

I said I hadn't been asked to work and wondered why it Avas. Elston 
said that was Arthur Stevens' big fault. He was never willing to in- 
volve as many people as should be involved in a mass activity. I was 
invited then to come to the Independent Progressive Party office and 
work. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you work in the Independent Progressive office ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the general character of the work you 
performed ? 

Mrs. Schneider. We sent out mailings, notices of meetings. We 
mailed out propaganda leaflets, we distributed pamphlets, we wrote 
publicity, everything in general connected with a normal political 
party. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that at this first meeting you attended, 
Horace Alexander was the speaker. I believe you referred to him 
earlier in your testimony but I want to make certain of that. Was he a 
person known to you to be a member of the Communist Party ? I want 
to get that clear. 

Mrs. Schneider. I would like to explain my hesitation a little bit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me suggest this. If there is any doubt in your 
mind I do not think that you should give any circumstances or details 
whicli might be short of positive identification. If you can positively 
identify him, say so; but if you cannot, I believe you better say so 
before making an explanation. 

JVfrs. Schneider. I don't think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. 

What was Arthur Stevens' position in the Independent Progressive 
Party? 

Mrs. Schneider. I don't remember what his exact title was at the 
very beginning. He was the executive secretary, he was the active 
organizer of the group at the time I joined. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1983 

Mr. Tavenner. Please give the committee the names of those you 
•can positively identify as Commmiist Party members who became 
active in the Independent Progressive Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. May I use my address book ? It involves several 
people. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Schneider. The first one that I can identify as a Communist 
Party member who was active in the Independent Progressive Party 
was Carl Callendar. The second is Helen Dugdale. Also her hus- 
band, Beit Dugdale should be includfei. 

Alberta Fonts, Lolita Gibson, and lier husband, Howard Gibson. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, with reference to these identifica- 
tions, if my memory serves me right, I believe that one of the indi- 
viduals mentioned, the party named Fonts, either did testify before 
the committee or held herself available to testify. 

Mrs. Schneider. Alberta Fonts. 

Mr. Jackson. I think that should be in the record so there will be 
no misunderstanding as to her present status. 

Mrs. Schneider. Also I would like to make it plain that these 
people were Communist Party members at the time that I joined; some 
of them may have been expelled from the party since or may have 
dropped out voluntarily. In her case I think she withdrew volun- 
tarily. 

Mr. Jackson. If you have such information, Mrs. Schneider, I 
think it w^ould be well to state it at the time of identification. 

Mrs. Schneider. O. B. Hagen, who was expelled from the Com- 
munist Party. Mignon Jenkyns. Charles and Elsie Jacques. Bess 
and Leo Lueb. Joseph and Verna Langer. 

INIr. Tavenner. Let me ask you, was Dave Starcevic one of this 
group ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. Dave and Miriam Starcevic both, with 
members of the group. Bill Rubens. 

Mr. Tavenner. What business Avas Starcevic engaged in ? 

Mrs. Schneider. At the time I knew him he didn't have a job. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not the Communist Party 
criticized him in any meeting for any business activity in which he 
was engaged ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. Mr. Starcevic told me himself about it. He 
had been building a series of apartments on his own property and 
had remodeled a house and built a house in addition. He had rented 
them to other people. That was against the Communist Party princi- 
ples. They were living from income from the apartments and you 
can't take money away from the poor working people. On one occa- 
sion he had actually caused eviction of some of his renters because 
they had not paid their rent, which is completely against Communist 
Party principles. He was very much criticized for doing it and in 
the end I was told he sold his apartment for that reason. 

Mr. Jackson. Was this the same party the committee heard in 
Seattle ? 

Mr. Taa^nner. Not Seattle. That was the same name but not the 
same individual. He was before this committee, however, in April 
of last year in San Diego. 

(Representative Walter returned to the hearing room.) 



1984 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

The Chairman. Mr. Tavenner, would this be a good place to call 
another witness and have this witness step aside ? 

Mr. Tavenner, She has not quite finished this question. 

Mrs. Schneider. Harry and Celia Shermis. Paul Sleeth. David 
and Miriam Starcevic. Arthur Stevens. 

I also have the name of someone who was applying for readmission 
into the Communist Party who was active in this group. Do you 
want that ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Schneider. Laura Colwell Smith, who was a witness last 
year. Phil Usquiano, Theresa Vidal. Carmen Edwards. 

Those are all of the names that I have in my address book. I don't 
think I can recall any others independently right now. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, you say you would like for this 
witness to step aside at this point ? 

The Chairman. Yes, Mrs. Schneider, will you please step aside at 
this point and I will call Harry Steinmetz. 

Raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Steinmetz, I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HARRY STEINMETZ 

The Chairman. Have a seat. 

Mr. Steinmetz, a few moments ago when this preceding witness 
stated that you were a Communist you rose in the rear of the room 
and shouted that "that's a lie." 

Mr. Steinmetz. Yes. 

The Chairman. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I am not. 

The ChxVirman. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Steinmetz. Her statement was a lie because I am not, and at 
the time that she was testifying about, a member of the Communist 
Party. 

The Chairman. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. Is that anything that you can legislate on? 

The Chairman. I am asking you whether or not you have ever 
been a member of the Communist Party. It has nothing to do with 
legislation. However, it is the duty of this committee 

Mr, Steinmetz. I know that. I have heard that many times. I 
came here today in view of the decision 

The Chairman, Never mind what you came here for. Have you 
ever been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr, Steinmetz, With regard to all periods before 1940, I stand 
on the first and the fifth amendments. 

The Chairman, In other words, up to 1940 you were a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr, Steinmetz. I did not say that. You are saying that. 

The Chairman. Yes, I am saying it. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Yes, you are. This is the type of thing you love 
to say. I came here 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1985 

The Chairman. I dislike it very much because I am an American 
and I dislike to see people of that type before me. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I am a descendant of the American Kevolution. 

The Chairman. But were you a member of the Communist Party 
up to 1940? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I say that with regard to — can't you understand 
me — all periods before 1940, before 1939 

The Chairman. What date in 1939? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I give you no date. I am exercising my rights as a 
citizen to use the Constitution with regard to a period of my life that 
is none of your business. 

The Chairman. Up to 1939 you say that you refuse to answer the 
question because it is a right under the Constitution of the United 
States? 

Mr. Steinmetz. Because it is a right of the Constitution. 

The Chairman. That is right. It is a right under the Constitution. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Yes. 

The Chairman. Now since 1939 up to the present time have you 
been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I say this because this is a very important time in 
my life for what has happened in the last couple of days. I say it 
with no evaluation as a simple straightforward matter of fact. No, 
I am not and have not been. 

The Chairman. Why didn't you use the same constitutional privi- 
leges in answering that question as you used in answering the preced- 
ing question? 

Mr. Steinmetz. In answering the preceding question? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Because it is my right to refrain from discussing 
with you something that is none of your business under the Consti- 
tution. 

The Chairman. It is the business of the United States to warn the 
people against the kind of thing 

Mr. Steinmetz. It is not your business to act as a court and that 
is what you are doing. 

The Chairman. I am asking you questions about your activities. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Government by intimidation is exactly what you 
are attempting and the blowup of all this business here is so ridiculous. 

The Chairman. Never mind the stump speech. I have heard better 
ones from the same kind of people. 

]Mr. Tavenner, what was the name of the other witness who put this 
person in the Communist Party? 

Mr. Tavenner. Ann Kenny. 

The Chairman. Do you know Ann Kenny? 

Mr. Steinmetz. No, 1 don't know any Ann Kenny. 

The Chairman. "V'V^iat was the period she stated he was a Com- 
munist ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Miss Kenny was describing a fraction meeting of 
the Communist Party within the American Federation of Teachers. 

The Chairman. You might go into that. 

Mr, Steinmetz. Seventeen years ago. Let's go into it. 

Mr. Jackson. May I make a statement relative to whether or not 
we have jurisdiction or authority to question this witness or any 
witness engaged in his occupation, which was at the time I understand 
that of teaching. 



1986 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Steinmetz. You may pass legislation with regard to that mat- 
ter. 

Mr. Jackson. We certainly may. It is the business of the Con- 
gress to legislate in almost any area, and that right has frequently been 
upheld by the Supreme Court. 

Mr. Steinmetz. You are enlarging it. 

Mr. Jackson. There is abundant testimony before this committee 
that the Communist Party made a strong effort to infiltrate teachers 
into ever}' level of our educational system with a deliberate purpose 
in view. 

Mr. Steinmetz. So has the Republican Party and the Democratic 
Party. 

Mr. Jackson. At such time as you have any evidence that either of 
those parties has sought by force and violence to overthrow this Gov- 
ernment, we shall investigate it. 

Mr. Si'EiNMETZ. You have no sucli evidence about 

Mr. Jackson. However, Mr. Chairman, we have a perfect right 
to inquire into the activities of one who is charged in the educational 
system with tlie education of children. 

Mr. Steinmetz. There has never been a criticism of my work in 
education, and you know it. 

The Chairman. It is not only our right but it is our duty, duty 
imposed upon this committee by the Congress of the United States. 

Mr. Jackson. This witness doesn't care about a duty imposed on this 
committee by the Congress of the United States. I doubt very much 
whether he cares anything about the Congress of the United States. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I certainly do. 

Mr. Jackson. So far as I am concerned, whether or not he has 
carried a card in the Comnumist Party since 1939, the accumulated 
evidence will indicate that if he hasn't he owes the Connnunist Party 
money in dues. 

Mr. Steinmetz. That is the kind of snide and petty stuff' that you 
take advantage of your position to throw out. 

Mr. Jackson. Your attitude, sir, is one of complete contempt. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Your attitude is contempt of a witness. You 
stooped to the name calling first. 

Mr. Jackson. It has not changed in the interim. You have demon- 
strated nothing but contempt for this committee, nothing but con- 
tempt for its appointed duties. As far as I am concerned I intend to 
carry forward with the same sort of thing I am doing in line with the 
charge laid upon us by the Congress of the United States. 

The Chairman. It might be interesting to note that at the beginning 
of this session of the Congress the appropriation for this committee 
was voted by a unanimous vote, not one single vote out of 435 Members 
was cast against the appropriation. 

Mr. Steinmetz. We all know about those appropriations. 

The Chairman. I am not talking about 

Mr. Steinmetz. You are not talking to me, you are using this occa- 
sion to make political 

Mr. DoTLE. Since 1939, the date you fixed — when was that period 
you asked, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Doyle. Since 1939, which is the date you fixed, I repeat, have 
you attended a Communist Party meeting in San Diego or in any 
other place? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1987 

Mr. Steinmetz. No, sir ; I have not. 

Mr. Doyle. I am not asking about a closed Communist Party meet- 
ing, but about any meeting to your knowledge dominated and arranged 
for by the Communist Party in San Diego. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Recognized as a Communist Party meeting; no, 
sir. 

Mr. Doyle. You are avoiding the question whether you intend to or 
not. I am asking you whether or not to your personal knowledge you 
attended or participated in any meeting in the San Diego area known 
to you to have been arranged for by Communist Party leaders in San 
Diego. Do you understand my question ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Doyle. In other words, I am asking you if you attended or 
participated in any meetings in the San Diego area since 1939 known 
to you to have been arranged for by Communist leaders in San Diego. 
If so, where. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Mr. Doyle, conscientiously as I try to think back 
now, I don't think so ; but please recognize I am not supported by an 
attorney on this occasion ; you took advantage of me in the back of 
the room. 

Mr. Doyle. I think that was no advantage. 

The Chairman. Nobody took advantage of you ; you didn't have an 
attorney to advise you wlien you jumped up in the hearing room and 
shouted. 

Mr. Steinmetz, When somebody lies about me I don't need an 
attorney. 

The Chairman. You do not need an attorney now. 

Mr. Sreinmetz. You put me under oath and ask me catchy ques- 
tions. I don't trust you. I have heard you too many times. I don't 
trust you. I think my answer is I don't think so, Mr. Doyle. I really 
don't think so. I don't know what you have got in there and with 
these kind of people you may produce evidence that some meeting I 
attended was drummed up by Communist Party members and tliat I 
attended but I don't think that I ever did so consciously. 

The Chairman. You say you have not been a Communist since 
1989. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I did not. 

The Chairman. Subject to the matter of my hearing 

Mr. Steinmetz. You are right, pardon me. 

The Chairman. Then there is nothing wrong with my ears. 

Mr. Steinmetz. You are right, I am sorry. 

The Chairman. Now, Mr. Steinmetz, we will go to the period be- 
fore 1939, that period when you decline to answer questions. Even if 
it is a crime to be a member of the Communist Party the statute of 
limitations has long since run. Why don't you tell us about the period 
before 1939 so that this commitee may make suggestions by way of 
legislation and by way of warning the American people against in- 
nocently becoming involved in conspiracies. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I will tell you why, because I think that history 
is an on-going affair from day to day and we each have a responsibility 
for contributing to the history of the time that we are in. You can't 
legislate with regard to the past. I can't change the past. 

The Chairman. We don't want to change the past. What we want 
to do is make innocent, well-meaning people aware of the pitfalls of 



198S COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

this conspiracy so that thay may avoid them and not be embarrassed as 
you have probably been. That is what we are trying to do. With that 
in mind, will you tell us about the period before 1939. 

Mr. Steinmetz. That is very touching, but I should say not. 

The Chairman. Not touching enough. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Not at all touching enough, sir. This is so ri- 
diculous to go back to the depression years. 

The Chairman. In 1939 ; I didn't know there was a depression then. 

Mr. Steinmetz. You didn't ? 

The Chairman. No. 

My. Steinmetz. Thousands did, Mr. Walter, thousands did. 

Mr. Jackson. The witness has volunteered the information that 
since 1939 he has not been a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Which makes your witness a liar. 

Mr. Jackson. In view of that and in view of the somewhat moot 
question of waiver of immunity I am going to ask a question and then 
ask that the witness be directed to answer. Were you in 1938 a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party, either in San Diego or anywhere else'^ 

Mr. Steinmetz. In San Diego or any place else. You mean there 
would be a difference between being a member in San Diego and some 
place else ? 

Mr. Jackson. Not necessarily. I phrased it that way because it is 
quite conceivable you might have been a member some place else and 
not in San Diego. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 
1938 ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. In 1938. I have stood on the first and the fifth 
amendments with regard to the period of 1940 and there is nothing 
clever in that question. I am not answering it. 

Mr. Jackson. It was not intended to be clever. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I have already told you very plainly that with re- 
gard to the period before 1939 I do not choose to answer on grounds 
of the first and the fifth amendments. And further, the Supreme Court 
decision in the Emspak case, I will add that. 

Mr. Jackson. That is precisely the reason I phrased my question the 
way I have. In light of the finding in the recent cases before the Su- 
preme Court in which the majority pointed out that a witness must be 
informed that there is a possibility of a citation for contempt if the 
committee makes it perfectly clear to him that it does not accept his 
answer as being a legal use of the fifth amendment, I wish to state, Mr. 
Chairman, I do not accept that answer as being a proper use of the fifth 
amendment, and I ask that the Chair direct the witness to answer the 
question. 

The Chairman. Mr. Steinmetz, you are directed to answer the ques- 
tion as to whether or not vou were a member of the Communist Party 
before 1938. 

]\Ir. Steinmetz. Are you offering me immunity or something ? 

Mr. Jackson. I am asking you a question. 

]VIr. Stein^nietz. And I have given you the answer that on grounds 
of the first and the fiftli amendment I do not believe that you have the 
authority to require me to answer. You said the statute of limitations 
hafl 

Mr. Jackson. Do vou refuse to answer ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. Yes, sir; I refuse flatly to answer on grounds cited. 

The Chairman. Any questions, Mr. Doyle? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1989 

Mr. Doyle. No, sir. 

The Chairman". Mr. Tavenner i 

Mr. Tavenner. I have a few questions. 

Were you a member of the American Federation of Teachers union 
prior to 1940 ^ 

Mr. Steinmetz. I am inclined to go along with you on this, but I 
don't have an attorney. I have al ready cited a diminished fifth amend- 
ment, you can recognize, which is not the end of a party but pertains 
to my rights I think, and so I want to ask you as a lawyer should I not 
be consistent and answer this question about the American Federation 
of Teachers in the same way. 

Mr. Jackson. Regular order. 

The Chairman. Having cited Supreme Court decisions, I think you 
are well enough acquainted with the law to answer a simple question. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I have already said I wouldn't answer questions 
about before that period in the Thirties on grounds of the first and 
fifth amendments. Now you ask me about the union matter that is 
related of course to 

Mr. Ta\tenner. I am asking you for the purpose of following it up 
to inquire as we started to do when you were called as a witness before 
this committee once before, as to whether or not you have any knowl- 
edge of Connnunist Party activities Avithin that group or any 
knowledge of Communist Party purposes to take over that group and 
why. That is the general coui'se of my questioning so I wanted you 
to know what it is I am interested in. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Very good. I will accept that as the question, if 
you will allow me, and say that I will then cite the first and the fifth 
amendment again and say I won't testify about it. 

The Chairman. Is that teachers' union a Communist organization ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chainnan, we have heard evidence at a number 
of different places in the United States regarding the effort that the 
Communist Party made to take over the teacliers union. One of the 
foremost leaders in that field was Dr. Bella V. Dodd of New York City. 
In many places the Commimists were entirely unsuccessful; some 
places they were successful, as indicated in the city of Philadelphia 
where the national organization canceled the charter of the local 
union. 

The Chairman. Was that at the time when 39 school teachers were 
fired because they were Communists ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No ; that occurred much later. It is the same place. 

The Chairman. Mr. Steinmetz, what can you tell us about this 
union ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. Well, Mr, Walter, I would refuse to discuss any- 
thing in that union pertaining to what you call conspiracy. 

The Chairman. Then let's forget that. 

Will you tell us what you know about the union ? It may well be 
there are many San Diego teachers who are members of it and if they 
knew what you probably Imow about it would they cease to be 
members. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Well, pardon me. I don't think there is any union 
here. I don't think there is. I don't know. 

The Chairman. Is this teachers union in existence in San Diego? 
Is there a chapter here now ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. There may possibly be. I am not sure. 



1990 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

The Chairman. Was there one here 10 years ago ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. That would be 1945. 

The Chairman. Let's go back to, say, 1939. 

Mr. Steinmetz. 1939, 1 think there was. 

The Chairman. There was ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I think there was one that went out of existence. 

The Chairman. You know there was because you were a member of 

it, weren't you ? t^ ,x ^ ^ 

Mr. Steinmetz. It went out of existence that year. Don t try to 

make a liar out of me. You don't know. You weren't a member. 
The Chairman. How do you Imow that it went out of existence that 

year ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. About that time it dwindled away and ceased to 
function and didn't exist any more and hasn't since, far as I know— — 
The Chairman. Who were the officers when it ceased to exist? 
Mr. Steinmetz. I don't remember. Really I don't remember. 
The Chairman. Were you one of the officers ? 
Mr. Steinmetz. I don't think so in 1939. 
The Chairman. You would know. 

Mr. Steinmetz. No ; I wouldn't necessarily. I have been a member 
of a few things. 

The Chairman. You do not think you were an officer of the union, 
but you were a member of it, weren't you ? 
Mr. Steinmetz. In 1939? 
The Chairman. Or 1938, or at any time. 
Mr. Steinmetz. 1938, certainly. 

The Chairman. You were a member ? , 

Mr. Steinmetz. Of course, yes, sir. I was a member. It is a matter 
of record I was a member of it. 

The Chairman. It took me nine questions to get from you the an- 
swer you could have given Mr. Tavenner. 
Mr. Steinmetz. Very clever. 

Mr Tavenner. While you were a member, did you observe any 
eifort on the part of the Communist Party to take over the leadership 
in that organization ? , ni -.i j 

Mr. Steinmetz. I think, as a lawyer you should let me, with regard 
to any matter pertaining to this so-called conspiracy, stand as I have 
tried to on the first and the fifth amendments for the period before 1939. 
Mr. TA^^i:NNER. That is not my decision. That is your decision. 
Mr. Steinmetz. I don't have benefit of an attorney here. You 
plucked me out of the audience for this and I came up only and volun- 
teered that your previous witness lied about me and so she did. 

The Chairman. You are not volunteering anything. You are here 
because of a subpena which you invited. 

Mr. Steinmetz. On account of a lie by one of your witnesses. 
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. I do not like you calling 
this fine American citizen a liar. If you were half the American she 
is you wouldn't be sitting where you are this minute. 
Mr, Steinmetz. Do I have to continue to take this ? 
The Chairman. No ; you don't have to continue to take anything. 
Just answer questions. 
Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1991 

Mr. Tavenner. As a matter of fact, when she said you were a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party you had been a member of the Communist 
Party but you now contend that you were not at the time she was in 
the party. That is your contention, isn't it ? 

Mr. S TEiNMETZ. You are talking about this witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, Mrs. Schneider, the preceding witness. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I said that I am not and was not at the time, at the 
period about which she was testifying a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. But she was correct in her statement when she said 
that you were a member of the Communist Party ? 

The Chairman. At some time. 

Mr. Steinmetz. She didn't say that, did she? She said I was at 
the time she was testifying about it of course. 

Mr. Tavenner. She didn't specify. 

Mr. Steinmetz. She didn't specify ? 

Mr. Tavenner. She didn't specify, but she was correct insofar as 
she said that you were a member of the Communist Party, wasn't she ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. That is a construction you want. That is no con- 
struction I accept. 

Mr. Tavenner. If we place that construction on it, it is truthful, 
isn't it? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I stand on the first and the fifth with regard to the 
period before 1940 and 1939, and anybody 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mrs. Schneider? 

Mr. Steinmetz. Oh, yes. I knew that person at college and subse- 
quently saw her in the community. 

Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you see her quite a bit in the community 
since 1951 ? 

Mr. Stein]metz. Are you entrap]:)ing me ? Are you entrapping me ? 

Mr. Tavenner. AnsAver the question. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I stand on the first and fifth amendments with re- 
gard to this witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Verna Langer ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I stand on the first and fifth. That is one of the 
names I saw in the paper you had. 

Mr. Tavenner. Haven't you conferred with Verna Langer many 
times on Communist Party matters since 1951 ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I would like to answer that but I am forced to 
stand on the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you confer with Mrs. Schneider on the set- 
ting up of the San Diego Peace Forum ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I would like to, I really would like to exchange 
A'iews Avith you on that not under oath, but under oath I am going to 
stand on the first and fifth amendments. I mean to honestly. I mean 
it A'ery honestly. 

The Chairman. This is a A^ery fine forum. Let's exchange vieAvs. 

Mr. Steinmetz. It is a Avonderf ul forum. 

The Chairman. Or rather, let's lay the cards on the table. 

Mr. Steinmetz. You are so interested in matters pertaining to pub- 
lic welfare. It is very touching. You bloAv this little activity of a 
f eAv people in San Diego exemplifying their principles and beliefs into 
a Avorldwide conspiracy and overlook the things that really affect 



1992 coMMxnsriST activities in the san diego, calif., area 

The Chairman. If you don't think communism is a worldwide con- 
spiracy you ought to go to the colleges that this boy mentioned by 
Mrs. Schneider attended for 12 years. 

Mr. Jackson. I don't know whether it is a minor incident to have 
branches of the Communist Party operating in a defense center such 
as San Diego. Perhaps it was a small matter, but it was not a small 
matter when Alger Hiss and his cronies were extracting information 
from the confidential files of the United States Government and 
transmitting it to potential enemies of the United States. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Let me tell you something. How about the in- 
filtration of Nazis and Nazi sympathizers ? 

Mr. Jackson. Which this committee has investigated. 

Mr. Steinmetz. And I initiated the FBI investigation of it in 
San Diego. 

Mr. Jackson. Congratulations to you. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I am very proud of that. 

Mr. Jackson. Tliat is one great service and you can render another 
now. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I have rendered more than one service and far more 
unselfishly than you have ever rendered one in your life. 

Mr. Jackson. By your standards that may be true. I don't know. 

Mr. Steinmetz. You wouldn't take a chance on principle. 

Mr. Jackson. Have you at any time since 1951 conferred privately 
at any place with individuals known to you to be members of the 
Communist Party ? 

jMr. Steinmetz. Have I conferred with anybody who to my knowl- 
edge was an official of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Jackson. Known to you to be members of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Conferred. 

Mr. Jackson. Conferred with them privately. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I have talked to some that I suspected were Com- 
munist Party members. 

The Chairman. May I interrupt ? Wlio were those people ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I don't give you my suspicions of people. My pro- 
fession is one that depends on confidence and trust and freedom. I 
don't tell you whom I suspect and you have no business asking me that 
sort of thing. I am asked if I conferred with them. I have had no 
chance to prepare this. I don't think that I did as such, that they were, 
but I suspect that they might have been. You don't ask for that of 
your other witnesses. 

The Chairman. lYliat gave rise to your suspicions ? Wliat gave rise 
to your suspicions that these people were Communists? They must 
have said something which indicated to you that they were not Amer- 
icans or were un-American, 

Mr. Steinmetz. Un-American? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I don't concede that a person who even would have 
Communist convictions would necessarily, Mr. Walter, be in my defi- 
nition, if he were an honest law abiding person, un-American. I am 
not willing to concede that. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you believe that now ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I believe that it is possible for a Communist to 
be a law-abiding American citizen 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1993 

Mr. Jackson. Do you believe that ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. And still have Commimist convictions, 

]\Ir. Jackson. Do you believe that in liglit of the action of the United 
States Congress in outlawing the Communist Party that a citizen 
today can be a member of the Communist Party which was proscribed 
by Federal law and still be a decent, God-fearing, law-abiding citizen 
of the United States ? 

Mr, Steinmetz. Let's leave God out of it. You bring Him in so 
frequently it is sacrilegious, it is church and state which you are con- 
sistently trying to — you get people and try to browbeat them for public 
absolution. People like you are not morally 

Mr. Jackson. We are not asking for a confession. We want to know 
what you know about the Communist Party and its operation. That is 
the job we are charged with and we will be derelict in our duties if we 
fail. 

Mr. Steinmetz. If I do anything of menace to this country I will 
tell you. If I were convinced there was any activity that was menacing 
our country I would tell you, sir. 

Mr. Jackson. That is not an answer to the question, sir. 

jNIr. Steinmetz. I don't know of anything — I have known some of 
these people who have been up here a long time and I have never known 
them to do an illegal act. 

Mr. Jackson, Of course you are placing yourself in the position of 
being the preeminent judge of whether or not any of your asso- 
ciates 

Mr. Steinmetz. Who placed himself there? You placed yourself 
there. 

Mr. Jackson. By rising to your feet and characterizing the state- 
ment of a witness whose testimony to this point has stood up perfectly. 

Mr. Steinmetz. It has ? 

Mr. Jackson. Yes. 

Mr. Steinmetz. You say it still has to this point ? 

Mr. Jackson. So far as I am concerned. I am not at all satisfied 
with the situation as it exists and 1 hope to explore the matter further 
and to develop 

Mr. Steinmetz. I hope you will. 

Mr. Jackson. That there is corroborative evidence of your pres- 
ence in the meetings as alleged. I for one would hope that the chair- 
man would refer the transcript of the hearings as they relate to you 
to the Attorney General for action. 

Mr. Steinmetz. You hope you find it. 

The Chairman. Mr. Tavenner, do you have anything more ? 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chairman, may I read one very brief statement. 
This I read from a decision made June 8, 1955, in the case of United 
States of America v. Sam Title^ in the Federal Court of Los Angeles. 
Hon. Leon R. Yankowitch. I will read one paragraph because it 
refers to a period. Dr. Steinmetz, which you 

Mr. Steinmetz. And you know that period very well. You know 
the man w^lio put you into office and then you sold him out. 

IMr. DoYT^E. This is what the honorable Judge Yankowitch said 
on June 8, 1955. I read it because you have said you believe a membsr 
of the Communist Party could be a patriotic law-abiding citizen. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I can conceive they might. 



1994 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAJN DlEUU, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Doyle. I can't. 

( Representative Jackson left the hearing room. ) 

Mr. Doyle (reading) : 

During the period with whicli we are concerned, 1936 to 1941, a showing of 
membership in the Communist Party was not of itself a bar to citizenship. The 
proof in this case must therefore .show that at the time the defendant made 
tlie statement of representation alluded to and took the oath of allegiance, and 
within the lO-year stMutory period preceding the Communist Party was an organ- 
ization which advo> aied the overthrow of the United States by force and violence 
The evidence in the record, oral and documentary, including the documentary 
evidence offered in behalf of the defendant, shows conclusively that this was 
the teaching of the Communist party. 

I "wish to say, Mr. Chairman, that this vohnninons decision which I 
liave of the honorable jndge brings it right down to date and sliows 
that doAvn to the date of his decision as far as he knew — and we all 
recognize him as one of the scholarly judges in the Federal court — I am 
sure that right down to June 8, 1955, this honorable judge said ''the 
Communist Party still teaches overthrow by force and violence in the 
United States." So that I can take it you see from that sort of analysis 
and other facts which I know as far as I am concerned at least since 
April 1945, no American citizen 

Mr. Steinmetz. Can believe other than what you believe. 

Mr. Doyle. I am sorry you are so narrow in j^our opinion. 

Mr. Steinmetz. That is what you are saying. I obey the law. I 
don't have to believe it. We have not come to that point in this countrv 
yet. 

The Chairman. Mr. Tavenner, have you any questions ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, the extent to 
which you have cooperated with Mrs. Schneider in the setting up of the 
San Diego Peace Formn ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I attended, it always consisted so far as I can re- 
member, just of her, I never had much use for — at the college or after- 
wards — and really I didn't have much to do with it. I had a little but 
I don't remember the details. I was not active in it after the first few 
meetings. This employment of an informer to agitate for peace in 
order to turn in the names of sympathizers is pretty contemptible, isn't 
it ? It seems to me 

The Chairman. That is very familiar. Every Communist that I 
have heard testify since I have been a reluctant member of this com- 
mittee 

Mr. Steinmetz. Reluctant member? 

The Chairman. Has said exactly that from coast to coast. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Is that so ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Steinmetz. This happens to be my conviction, that it is a con- 
temptible thing for the FBI or anybody else to employ somebody to 
agitate for a laudable purpose like peace in order to turn in the names 
of sympathizers. 

The Chairman. Maybe the FBI has an idea that these phony peace 
movements are a menace to our institutions and our security. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I think the FBI is a menace to our institutions. 

The Chairman. And 3'OU think that those who participate in it are 
almost traitors. 

Mr. Steinmetz. Is that so ? I had a ereat uncle who started the FBI. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1995 

The Chairman. I don't care about your uncle. 

Mr. Stein METz. I know the history of that organization. 

The Chairman. Never mind the stump speeches. 

Mr. Stein:^ietz. Just your own. Have your way. It is your party. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. You were aware of the fact she was a member of the 
Communist Party, were you not ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were aware of the fact that Verna Langer was 
the head of the Communist Party of San Diego, were you not? 

Mr. Steinmetz. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. You did not know they were members of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. No, sir. I won't say that somebody I may not 
have suspected — I have ah-eady said I would not discuss suspicions. 

The Chairman. You have categorically stated that neither of these 
two people was known to you to be members of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Steinmetz. That is right. Go ahead. Let it stand. They 
certainly didn't confer with me on that basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did they confer with you on the basis of commu- 
nism ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. You never discussed Communist Party matters 
with Verna Langer ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. Not to my memory ever. 

Mr. Tavenner. Not to your memory ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you make a positive statement about that? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I think I can. I would like to talk this over with 
an attorney first before you make it a matter for some wire-tapping 
evidence or something like that, construing remarks made. I don't 
think this is fair unless you tell me that you have something in mind 
that I said or did or that she said or did. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think he should be permitted to consult counsel 
since he has indicated a desire to do so. 

The Chairman. Let's withdraw the question. He has answered it 
in another form. Ask another question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Lloyd Hamlin? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I think I can answer that all right but again I 
would like to have benefit of an attorney because he Avas quite a case 
with you, quite useful to you. I would like to review his testimony. 

The Chairman. You do not need an attorney to advise you as to 
whether or not you remember him. 

JNIr. Steinmetz. I knew him, sure, I knew him. 

J\lr. Tam:nner. Did you talk to Lloyd Hamlin at any time on Com- 
munist Party matters ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I don't think I ever did. 

Mr. Tavenner. You don't think so? 

Mr. Steinmetz. No ; I don't think I did, 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you stating that you did not ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I would like the benefit of an attorney here. I am 
a little afraid of entrapment. I don't tliink I had occasion to, ever,, 
but what do you mean by Communist Party matters? You see, he 



1996 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

was employed for a time as secretary of the Joint Anti-Fascist Kefu- 
gee Committee. The Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee was an 
agency collecting funds in this country for the benefit of the most 
hard-stricken refugees in the world of the Spanish Loyalist Govern- 
ment, and they were in camps in north Africa and France, as I 
understand it, receiving funds from whatever source they could get 
them. 

The Chairman. You do not have to tell us about that. I contrib- 
uted substantial sums of money for the aid of those people myself. 

Mr. Steinmetz. I congratulate you, sir. I think that is very fine. 

The Chairman. However, it was infiltrated and subsequently taken 
over by Communists. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let's fix the period now. 

Mr. SiTEiNMETZ. The Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee sent 
funds with the stipulation, as I understand it, to the Friends Service 
Committee and Unitarian Service Committee that their funds were to 
be used only on political refugees. That would mean from Spain — 
Communists, Republicans, Socialists, and Anarchists. Therefore it 
might have been that I would have discussed these beneficiaries of that 
fund collection with Mr. Hamlin which would constitute perhaps talk- 
ing about Communists. I am afraid of your question, sir. 

The Chairman. Phrase the question differently so the witness has 
no fear of consequences. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you in this form : Did you at any time 
engage in any Communist Party activity with ]Mr. Hamlin ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. No, sir; not that I recognized as such. No, sir; 
not that I recognized as such. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the extent of your participation in the 
organization to which you have just referred, of which Mr. Hamlin 
was an official ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I think I have some record somewhere which would 
show offices. For a time I signed his paychecks. Cosigned his pay- 
checks. 

Mr. Tavenner. What office did you hold ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. I don't remember what it was called. I was one 
of the sponsors and he was responsible in part to me and I was respon- 
sible in part to others who came through representing the Joint 
Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee. 

The Chairman. When was that ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. That must have been 1943. I don't know. I would 
have to look it up. I really have to look it up. But it was over a 
period of I suppose a year and a half. Late in the war. 

(Representative Jackson returned to the hearing room.) 

The Chairman. After 1939, however? 

Mr. Steinmetz. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Celia Shermis ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. She was one of your witnesses here. I stand on 
the first and fifth amendments, if I may with regard to my acquaint- 
ance with her. Or I will say "Yes," I do know her. I don't mind. 
And her husband painted my house, or part of it one time. He was a 
painter. That is about the extent of my contact, incidentally, too. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know her as the head of the Communist 
Party in San Diego ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1997 

Mr. Steinmetz, No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you confer at any time with her regarding the 
activities of the San Diego Peace Forum or other organizations in this 
community ? 

Mr. Steinmetz. Not to my knowledge, memory, or belief. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. The witness is excused and the committee will 
stand in recess for 10 minutes. 

(Whereupon the witness was excused.) 

(Brief recess.) 

The Chairman. I wish to welcome this group of young students 
who have come in. This is refreshing to know that those of you who 
are studying civics are interested in our Government. For your bene- 
fit, I would like to state that this committee was elected by the House 
of Representatives for the purpose of bringing to the American people 
a realization that there are those in our midst who would destroy 
our form of government. 

Secondly, for the purpose of recommending to the Congress of the 
United States the enactment of legislation to protect those institutions 
that have been so dear to all of us and as a result of which we have 
become the leading nation in the world. I trust that all of you know 
what America is, what it stands for, and will do all that you can as 
individual citizens to preserve our form of government. 

Mr. Tavenner, will you proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to recall Mrs. Schneider, please. 

TESTIMONY OF ANITA BELL SCHNEIDER— Resumed 

The Chairman. Mrs. Schneider, will you come up, please. 

I hope, Mrs. Schneider, you weren't disturbed by some of tlie un- 
seemly remarks that were just made. Such remarks are disturbing to 
me when good Americans attempt to make a contribution to their 
country. So just consider the source of the remarks. 

Mrs. Schneider. Not at all. I realize in this sort of a case we expect 
counterattack. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Schneider, we were discussing the work of the 
Communist Party within the Independent Progressive Party, and you 
told us of certain types of work that you performed in the office of 
the Independent Progressive Party. Were you finally elevated to 
some position in the Independent Progressive Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I was. I became a memljer of the county 
central committee. I am not sure whether my name was entered on the 
register at the registrar of voters or not. But Arthur Stevens asked 
me to attend the county central committee meetings and to act on he 
county central committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, the extent to which the 
work of Communist Party members within that organization was 
directed and reviewed by the Communist Party in its meetings? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, sir. At each of the Oommunist club meet- 
ings that I attended a regular item on our agenda was review of our 
activities in each of the Communist front organizations. 

My job as head of the San Diego Peace Forum was usually reviewed 
first. My activity in the Independent Progressive Party and the work 
thati had done in the office was always gone over carefully. My sug- 
gestions for the other party members who were active, my criticisms of 

65808—55 7 



1998 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

them were also brought up and studied at this time, changes that were 
necessary were made. My future activity in the Independent Progres- 
sive Party for the future 2 weeks was discussed also, and directions 
given for that. 

Mr. Doyle. ^Vliat year did that commence and what year did it end ? 
What year did the Communist Party in San Diego determine to infil- 
trate and attempt to take over the Independent Progressive Party? 

Mrs. Schneider. We were taught in our Communist Party Club 
meetings a little bit different idea. We were told at the original incep- 
tion of the Independent Progressive Party how it was formed and why 
it was formed. I don't think infiltration of the Independent Progres- 
sive Party by the Communists is quite correct since they were instru- 
mental 

Mr. Doyle. "Wliat was correct as to the relationship between the 
Communist Party and the Independent Progressive Party? What 
were you to do ? 

Mrs. Schneider. We were taught at our Communist club meetings 
that it had been decided within the Communist Party that it was 
time for a third major political party to be formed. The Independent 
Progressive Party was set up. It was headed by Henry Wallace with 
the idea that when Henry Wallace withdrew from the Democratic 
Party he would s})lit the Democratic Party and take a large portion 
of it with him. The Independent Progressive platform, the Inde- 
pendent Progressive Party mode of operation was directed, at all 
times that I was aware of and at all times that it was talked about, 
by the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say you became a member of the central com- 
mittee of the Independent Progresive Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that on a county level or on a State level ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I was the county central committee member on a 
county level. I was delegate to the regional meetings, over a period of 
time to several meetings, I don't remember how many. I was a dele- 
gate to the State convention in Sacramento in 1952 and a delegate to 
the national convention in Chicago in 1952. I was secretary of the 
cultural and academic freedom panel at the national convention also.. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there other members of the Communist Party 
from San Diego who attended the convention of the Independent Pro- 
gressive Party in Chicago ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. John and Dorothy Kykyri, Arthur Stevens,, 
and Theresa Vidal also attended. They were all members of the Com- 
munist Party in San Diego. 

Mr. Tavenner. So the only delegates from San Diego to the na- 
tional convention from the Independent Progressive Party were mem- 
bers of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is not quite true. We had one, the wife of 
one of the political candidates, who was later defeated, also went with 
us. It was felt that our delegation was politically incorrect ; we had 
no colored members on our committee. Therefore they selected some- 
one to attend so that our delegation would be correct, according to 
Marxist ideology. Communist Party ideology, rather. 

Mr. Tavenner. But that individual was not a member of the Coni- 
munist Party ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 1999 

Mrs. Schneider. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there another individual who held an office 
in the Independent Progressive Party who at first was selected as a 
delegate but who was not permitted to go to Chicago ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, there was. 

Mr. Tavenner, Will you tell the committee about that, please. 

Mrs. Schneider. Do you want the name of the individual involved ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that individual a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Schneider. No, not to my knowledge. I am certain that she 
wasn't. 

Mr. Tavenner. I see no purpose in giving her name ; just give us 
the information. 

Mrs. Schneider. Surely. This woman had been active for many 
years in the Independent Progressive Party in the northern end of the 
county in the Fallbrook area. She had been instrumental in making a 
lot of the Independent Progressive Party activity effective. She got 
with our delegation as far as Los Angeles. We attended an all-day 
conference at which we were given instructions about programing and 
so on to use at the national convention but she wasn't following and 
had not been following the Communist Party instruction. When she 
got to Los Angeles therefore she was just eliminated from the delega- 
tion and it went on without her. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say this individual had refused to follow Com- 
munist Party instructions ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Who made the decision that this person was not to 
continue in the position that she held ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Jack Berman, Arthur Stevens ; I don't remember 
other people being present. There possibly were. 

Mr. Jackson. I think, Mr. Chairman, in the context of the testi- 
mony there would be no great harm in showing the people of the Fall- 
brook area that there Avas some independent operation of this dele- 
gation. I would suggest that the name of the individual be put in 
the record who refused to follow the predetermined dictates of the 
Communist Party. 

The Chairman. I think so. I couldn't imagine there being any re- 
flection on anybody who exercised that degree of courage. 

Mr. Tavenner. On the contrary, it would appear to be a matter for 
which she should be commended. 

The Chairman. Yes. Who was it ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Mrs. Vaida Arnold was the person who was elimi- 
nated from the delegation. The story goes a little bit further. After 
we returned from Chicago, she had been a delegate from the northern 
part of the county to the county central committee of the Indepndent 
Progressive Party here in San Diego. When we returned, an emergen- 
cy meeting was called and she was invited to attend it. At that meet- 
ing her activity, her refusal to accept the directions — only it wasn't 
explained that it was Communist Party directions — anyway she was 
asked to resign as a result of it and she was thrown out of the county 
central committee. 

The Chairman. In other words, she wanted to exercise the freedom 
the Communists talk about and never practice. 



2000 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Whose decision was it that she should be required 
to resign. 

Mrs. Schneider. A meeting was called in Fallbrook, Mignon 
Jenkyns 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. This is a meeting of what ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Of the Communist Party. Mignon Jenkyns, Jo 
Ann HinchlifFe and I met. I was asked because I was from tlie 
southern end of the county and was of some influence at tliat time on 
the county central committee. I was asked what we could do to get rid 
of her in San Diego, how they should cope with the problem. I sug- 
gested, I believe, that we call a county central committee meeting im- 
mediately. I went back 

Mr. Tavenner. Central committee meeting of what group? 

Mrs. Schneider. Meeting of the Progressive Party. I went to my 
Communist club meeting; I believe Celia Shermis and Verna Langer 
were there. We discussed what to do about it. They said they con- 
tacted Arthur Stevens and asked him to call a special county ccutral 
meeting at which she was invited to attend and then was thrown out. 

Mr. Tavenner. So then Arthur Stevens called this central com- 
mittee meeting of the Independent Progressive Party at the direction 
of the head of the Communist Party in this area ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Arthur Stevens the head of the Independent 
Progressive Party during the entire period that you functioned with 
it? 

Mrs. Schneider. No, he wasn't. He was replaced in 1952, I believe, 
by Dorothy Kykyri. She became ill and \\as replaced, I think, by 
Elsie Jaques. Elsie Jaques was replaced in time by Miriam Kus- 
nierczyk. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you go back to the point where yon told us 
who succeeded Arthur Stevens? You said it was Dorothy Kykyri. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, she was. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you know that ? 

Mrs. Schneider. When John Kykyri became chairman of the Com- 
munist Party in San Diego I began meeting with John and Dorothy 
Kykyri at my Communist Party club. I met with her over a period 
of months. 

Mr. Tavenner. So there you had the head of this organization, 
Arthur Stevens, a member of the Communist Party, you have Dorothy 
Kykyri who succeeded him, who was the wife of the Communist Party 
leader of this community and who herself was a member of the Com- 
munist Party, and then who is the next individual who succeeded her? 

Mrs. Schneider. I have difficulty in identifying the next person 
as a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. You should not speculate on it. 

Mrs. Schneider. That isn't true. I remember she was present at 
one closed Communist Party meeting in August or September of 1951. 
September or October, Elsie Jaques. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she head of the entire county orffanization ? 

Mrs. Schneider. No, she was not. She merely kept the office open. 
It was between elections, nothing particularly was happening. She 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2001 

ran tlie office as head of the office staff more or less. It was after the 
lOaO elections and nothing important was coming up at the time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any other person at a later date who was 
the head of the Independent Progressive Party in San Diego and who 
was a member of the Communist Party. About what date was it that 
Elsie Jaques was acting in the capacity you described ? 

Mrs. Schneider. It was in 1953, 1 believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated you attended the national convention in 
Chicago in 1952. Do you recall who made the keynote speech at that 
convention ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I do. Dr. W. E. B. DuBois made the keynote 
speech. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a copy of what purports to be a text of 
his keynote speech. Will you state whether or not you obtained it at 
that time and if that was tlie speech which he delivered ? 

Mi-s. Schneider. It is the best I remember. It was very long and 
very hot. 

Mr. Tavenner. I request that the document above referred to be 
mai-ked, for identification only, as "Schneider Exhibit No. 22." (San 
Diego.) 

The Chairman. Let it be so marked. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to read only the first 4 or 5 lines. They are 
as follows : 

The platform of the Progressive Party may be reduced to these planks : Peace, 
stop the Korean war, offer friendship to the Soviet Union and the People's Re- 
public of China, restore and rebuild the United States. 

Other than the last item relating to the restoration and rebuilding 
of the United States, was this the Communist Party line at the time 
of the holding of this convention ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Completely. 

Mr. Tavenner. To what extent did the Communist Party attempt 
to control participation of its members in the Independent Progres- 
sive Party ; or their voting ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Well, completely. I don't remember being given 
definite instructions as to which person we would vote for. It was 
assumed we would vote for the Independent Progressive Party candi- 
date. After the elections, however. Communist Party members were 
sent to the registrar of voters to check the voting records for each 
precinct. On one occasion in Fallbrook a man who was a Communist 
Party member — 2 people who were Communist Party members lived 
in 1 precinct, but there was only 1 Independent Progressive Party vote 
from that precinct which meant one of them had not voted the Inde- 
pendent Progressive Party. It resulted in the man's almost being 
thrown out of the Communist Party and when he ran for office as vice 
president of the county central committee he wasn't elected. 

Mr. Tavenner. County central committee of what ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Of the Independent Progressive Party. He was 
very seriously criticized for not voting the Independent Progressive 
Party. In my case my precinct was checked, and I was commended 
because there were two Independent Progressive Party votes from my 
precinct, my own and my husband's. I was expected to force him. 
Although he was a registered nonpartisan I was expected to have him 
1 ote Independent Progressive Party also. 



2002 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Jackson. You can plead the fifth amendlnent on this. I have 
no desire to violate the sanctity of the ballot, but did you vote for the 
Independent Progressive Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I wish there were some way I could change my 
registration for those years and take back my vote. I did. 

Mr. Jackson. Under the circumstances it was probably a good vote. 

The Chairman. I hope your husband didn't hear you boast about 
controlling his vote. 

Mrs. Schneider. It was a matter of some concern beforehand, be- 
lieve me. He voted Independent Progressive Party, too. 

The Chairman. You are the only person I have seen in politics who 
had a vote in his vest pocket. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were the affairs of the Independent Progres- 
sive Party financed ? That is, what method was used ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Voluntary subscriptions didn't cover the cost of 
operation of the Independent Progressive Party office. At the begin- 
ning of the time I was working in the Independent Progressive Party. 
Lolita Gibson was given the job of canvassing Communist Party mem- 
bers to raise money to finance the Independent Progressive Party 
office, and after she left the finances became very strained. We were 
asked to make pledges; Communist Party members were asked to 
make pledges to keep the Independent Progressive Party office open. 
There were also a very few non- Communists who made pledges who 
were Independent Progressive Party members. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were these pledges supposed to operate on a month- 
ly basis ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, they were. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were these persons members of the Communist 
Party and members of the Independent Progressive Party who pledged 
these monthly contributions ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And some few were included in the pledge who were 
not members of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. A very few. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was any device designed to conceal the name of the 
person making the donation used in the making of payments of those 
pledges ? 

]\Irs. Schneider. Yes ; it was used. We were given numbers accord- 
ing to, I don't know what it was according to, but we were all given 
numbers. We were sent a form on which the months that we had paid 
were checked. It had our number at the top. We were supposed to 
return the form with our number on top and enclose the money that we 
owed the office with it. A master list was kept in the office with the 
names of the people and the numbers on it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean in the office of the Independent Pro- 
gressive Party? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. It was kept very much out of sight. At 
the time that I recall Elsie Jaques was in charge of that. Occasionally 
when Elsie was ill I took over the job and sent out the reminders of 
the pledges. 

Mr. Ta^-enner. I hand you a document and ask 3'ou if you can 
identify it and tell the committee what it is. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I can. This is the master list of the pledge 
list, of the Independent Progressive Party at that time. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2003 

Mr. Tavennek. Was it kept in the office of the Independent Pro- 
gressive Party? 
Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not some of the names 
used on this list were fictitious names — that is, persons made contribu- 
tions but not under their own names ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. I was instructed that when these people 
sent in checks as they occasionally did I was to credit to those numbers 
and those names. 

Mr. Tavenner. So those numbers were just treated as symbols so 
that it would conceal the real identity of the person making it until 
the number was checked with this master list ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct. It was not thought advisable that 
the general Independent Progressive Party membership should realize 
the extent of the Communist Party financial contribution to the office. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. I notice your name on the list. Anita Schneider. 
And the number appearing after your name is 30-s. Then under the 
month of March there is an "X." Does that indicate that you made 
a contribution ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. It meant I paid my pledge for the month 
of March. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the amount appearing in the left-hand col- 
umn is $2. 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, inasmuch as the witness has stated 
that some of these are persons who were members of the Communist 
Party and some were not, I hesitate to introduce the document in 
evidence. 

The Chairman. It shouldn't be made a matter of public record 
unless all of these people are Communists, because those records have 
a way of turning up. 

Mr. Tavenner. I ask you to examine the document again, please, 
and if you can discover there a name which was a pseudonym, a name 
that you recall was not the true name of the contributor, and provided 
you know that the real contributor was a member of the Communist 
Party, I would like you to give the committee that information. Do 
you understand the question ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. If there is any doubt in your mind as to who used 
the particular name, I do not want the evidence. 

(Kepresentative Walter left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Jackson. I would like to clarify the matter in my own mind. 

Are you asking her to identify only those pseudonyms and not other 
members of the Communist Party whose names are properly given? 

Mr. Tavenner. Just for the moment. 

Mrs. Schneider. I hesitate to do so. The two names that I know 
that were pseudonyms are people who I know are members of the 
Comniunist Party, but I didn't attend closed meetings with them or 
anything. They were subject to Communist Party discipline, they 
contributed regularly to the Communist Party fund, they attended 
open and social meetings. I have never attended closed party meetings 
with them. 

Mr. Tavenner. The result is that your relationship with them was 
such that you do not feel like making a firm identification ? 



2004 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. I know myself that they were Communist Party 
members. I can't say that I have attended a closed party meeting 
with them. 

Mr. Jackson. Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that the criteria which 
the witness has given as to the extent of aid and support of the Com- 
munist Party with the understanding tliat it is not an identification in 
the sense of personal knowledge of the individual in a closed Commu- 
nist Party meeting is nevertheless such information as this committee 
has accepted on other occasions as indicating assistance to the Commu- 
nist Party as distinguished from positive identification. I personally 
see no reason why the names should not be given. 

Mr. Doyle. 1 agree. Unless you have a direction contrary to that, 
Mr. Tavenner 

Mr. Jackson. We are trying to find out who supports, and to what 
extent propaganda is made possible by the efforts of individuals who, 
while they may not carry Commmiist Party cards, are still a part of 
the Communist Party apparatus. 

Mr. DoiTLE. Methods used to raise money. 

Mr. Jackson. Exactly. 

Mr. DoYLE. Here is a place where they held socials, apparently, in- 
vited people in and these people knowingly gave money to Communist 
Party activities, as I understand the witness' statement, that the Com- 
munist Party was raising money at these socials, is that correct? 

Mrs. ScHNEmER. That is correct. 

Mr. TA\nENNER. Mr. Chairman, the witness has indicated enough 
doubt in her mind, it seems to me, that I don't know whether to pur- 
sue the question further in regard to those particular pseudonyms. 
The use of a pseudonym makes a difficult situation. 

Mr. Jackson. I won't press the matter if there is opposition. 

Mr. DoYLE. You and I, Mr. Jackson, often bow to the wisdom of 
our counsel and I will do so at this time. Maybe later on they can 
be identified. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you identify from that list the amount of con- 
tribution made for the various months of those persons known to you 
to be members of the Communist Party and also give the symbol or 
number which was used as the device for concealing their real identity ? 

Mrs. Schneider. John Carpadakis' symbol was 6-c. The amount 
was $2 a month. 

Mr. Tavenner. T\^iat months did he make the contribution? 

Mrs. Schneider. This is only checked for February. It does not 
necessarily mean that he didn't contribute any other months. We 
weren't very efficient. 

Also I would like to explain these are not the only contributions. 
These are just pledges. Substantial contributions were also made. 
You are expected to contribute a dollar at each meeting with a speaker. 
You are expected to contribute at least a dollar at every dinner that 
is given, and at the money-raising socials they sell raffle tickets and 
so on. It is really very much more. Bert Dugdale, 42-d, $1 a month. 
Carmen Edwards, 8-e, $1. Lolita Gibson, 36-g, $5 a month. Charles 
Jacques, 18-J, $4 a month. John Kykyri, 21-k, $3 a month. Verna 
Langer, 22-1, $3 a month. Milton Lessner, 24-1, $2 a month. Leo 
Lueb, 441-1, $1 a month. Anita Schneider, 30-s, $2 a month. Miriam 
Starcevic, 32-t, $1 a month. Theresa Vidal, 446-S, $2 a month. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2005 

The others I am not prepared to identify at this time. I would pre- 
fer discussing it with you. 

Mr. Tavenner. As having been members at that time ? 

Mrs. ScpiNEiDER. Yes. This is in addition to the contiibutions made 
on monthly basis and donated to people like Lolita Gibson. Lolita 
would collect them, $5, $10, and $15 at a time from people who did not 
want their names on such a list. She would then turn the money over 
to the Independent Progressive Party officials. They would be given 
receipts just made out to ""A friend." They insisted on giving the re- 
ceipts, however, for the money. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you stated that you attended the State con- 
vention of the Independent Progressive Party held at Sacramento. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the approximate date ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I believe in August 1952. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any administrative position in that 
convention? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. I was secretary of the State convention that 
year. I was also a member of the platform committee. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. How was the platform of the convention prepared? 

Mrs. Schneider. Theoretically it was formed by the platform com- 
mittee. The platform committee was to meet the first day, work out 
the platform of the State Independent Progressive Party for the fol- 
lowing year, and then submit it to the secretary of state before 5 o'clock 
the next day in order to legally I'emain on the ballot. However, we 
had met for 2 days and had been unable to di-aw up an adequate State 
platform. Therefore, at 10 minutes after 5 I was given a mimeo- 
graphed State platform and instructed to take it to the secretary of 
state to file. This was before the platform committee had even finished 
meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. "V^Tiat was the source of the mimeographed platform 
which was used and actually filed ? 

Mrs. Schneider. It was furnished by the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was it that gave it to you ? 

INIrs. Schneider. It was given to me by an attorney wiiom I can't 
identify personally as a Communist Party member. 

Mr. Jackson. What is the source of your information that it came 
from the Communist Party, if you do not know the individual who 
handed it to you to have been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. It was discussed by the Communist Party mem- 
bers at the convention. They were criticized by other Communist 
Party members for having set up a meeting before the convention 
and having it all mimeographed, they said it was not politically coi'- 
rect, it looked odd to have a mimeographed platform already set up. 

Mr. Jackson. But the platform that was handed to you in mimeo- 
graphed form was discussed in Communist Party meetings as being 
the one that had been developed for this purpose by the Communist 
Party to be filed with the secretary of state at the convention ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were there tw^o organizations in San Diego County 
of tlie Independent Progressive Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. One was in the southern section of the 
county and one was in the northern section of the county. 



2006 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. The activities which you have described were of 
which group ? 

Mrs. Schneider. The official San Diego County, county central 
committee, the southern group. 

Mr. Tavenner. What knowledge do you have of the northern group 
to which you referred? What has been your opportunity for 
knowledge ? 

Mrs. ScHNEroER. I know many of the members of the northern 
group of the county as Communist Party members. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you know? What is the basis of your 
knowledge ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I attended two closed Communist Party meetings 
in the northern part of the county, and met with the head of the north- 
ern part of the county and Celia Shermis on one occasion when we 
delivered Communist Party literature to her for distribution in Fall- 
brook and Vista. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who was that individual ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Mignon Jenkyns. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us again what her position was ? 

Mrs. Schneider. She was head of the northern part of the county 
at the time we took the literature. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of what organization ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Of the Communist Party. 

I am not positive, I believe she was also head of the Independent 
Progressive Party in that section. 

(Representative Walter returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this is a very convenient place to 
make a break. 

The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess until 2 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 12 : 05 p. m. the committee was recessed, to recon- 
vene at 2 p. m. the same day.) 

afternoon session — JULY 6, 195 5 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 
Mrs. Schneider, please. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. ANITA BELL SCHNEIDER— Resumed 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Schneider, are you familiar with an organiza- 
tion known as the Committee for the Defense of the Bill of Rights ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what you know 
about its organization and composition ? 

Mrs. Schneider. The Committee To Defend the Bill of Rights was 
active in the Los Angeles area, I think, primarily. Did you mean our 
local little Bill of Rights Defense Committee? 

Mr. Ta^^enner. Yes. 

Mrs. Schneider. Not the Los Angeles group ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, I am just speaking of San Diego. 

Mrs. Schneider. I was invited to attend a meeting of the Bill of 
Rights Defense Committee at the Hillcrest Community Unitarian Fel- 
lowship, 648 Robinson Street. I believe that has been changed to 
Front Street at the present time. I don't know the exact date. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2007 

Mr. Tavenner. It has been changed but you don't know the exact 
address ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct. When I arrived at the meeting 
I can remember some of the people that were present. Verna Langer 
was present, Milton Lessner was present, David Starcevic was present. 
Obed Rosen was present, Theresa Vidal was present. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the spelling of that last name ? 

Mrs. Schneider. V-i-d-a-1. I don't remember right at the moment 
any other people being present besides myself. Plans were being made 
for a meeting to oppose the appearance of the House Un-American 
Activities Committee. This was just previous to your appearance! 
here in San Diego last April, a year ago last April. 

The Committee to Defend the Bill of Rights had ordered 30,000 
leaflets, anticommittee leaflets, to be distributed in the area in San 
Diego. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me see if I understand. This meeting of this 
^oup was at the hall of the Community Unitarian Fellowship. Did it 
]ust meet at that hall or did it have any connection with that fellow- 
ship, do you know? 

Mrs. Schneider. I was invited to attend the meeting by Laura 
Minor. And aside from that I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do I understand you to say that they had printed 
30,000 leaflets in opposition to this committee ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, that is correct. I do remember, I can remem- 
ber what a non-Communist Party member had told me about the com- 
position of the committee, why it had been formed. Do you want that 
information ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that individual a member of this group? 

Mrs, Schneider. Yes, he had been elected chairman of the group. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say this person was not a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. But he was chairman of this group and told you the 
purpose of the group? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, and I think you should also give us the name. 

Mrs. Schneider. His name was Frank Hamill. He said that the 
committee had been originally organized to protect, I don't remember 
the expression he used, protect members of the grouj) — I think from 
attack by the Government or by such committees as this. He said it 
was primarily devoted to the defense of Dr. Harry Steinmetz. In this 
case the committee had voted to distribute 30,000 leaflets and was hav- 
ing a problem finding enough people to distribute them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he present at this meeting of the group to which 
you have referred ? 

Mrs. Schneider. No, he was not. He did not appear and 30,000 
leaflets were there to be distributed. Then Verna Langer assumed the 
chairmanship of the meeting and conducted the business at hand. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Was Verna Langer at that time the organizational 
head of the Communist Party in San Diego? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, she was. 

Mr. Tavenner. So she took over the chairmanship of this meeting ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 



2008 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, anything else 
that happened at that meeting? 

Mrs. Schneider. She had a list of the trade union meetings that 
were being held between that time and the time of the appearance of 
the committee in San Diego. She explained to us that that was where 
the Largest groups of people would be meeting and that we should 
divide up into pairs to distribute leaflets at each of the meetings. She 
and tlie man who was with her, I don't remember who went with her, 
distributed leaflets at the electrical workers union. I really don't 
remember which units each of the other members were assigned to. 
I and Whitey Rosen were given the central labor council meeting to 
distribute leaflets at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is Whitey his correct name ? 

Mrs. ScHNEroER. No, his name is Obed. He is never referred to as 
anything but Whitey. 

Mr. TA\nENNER. You and he were assigned to distribute these leaffets 
prepared by this organization at the central labor council? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, that is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us what occurred. 

Mrs. Schneider. Mr. Quimby became very angry at the left-wing 
leaflets and he sent three members, I was told, of the teamsters union 
down to discourage us from distributing it in front of the union hall. 
They did and we left. 

Mr. Tavenner. They did what ? 

Mrs. Schneider. They did discourage us and we left the meeting. 

Mr. Tavenner. They were opposed to the use of that type of propa- 
ganda? 

Mrs. Schneider. Completely, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. AVith the result that you were not successful in your 
Communist Party assignment ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct. Also plans were made for a distri- 
bution in the downtown areas. I believe, I don't remember the exact 
details. Friday nights I think the stores were open late at that time 
and we were assigned street corners to be on for distribution of leaflets. 
Obed Rosen and I and Lee Major were also assigned the Linda Vista 
housing area to be covered as much as possible by the distribution of 
those leaflets. Paul Sleeth, Dave Starcevic, June Langdon, and a 
group of the rest of us were distributing them in the downtown area 
in the daytime when Paul Sleeth was arrested for blocking the side- 
walk. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Let us go back a moment. You said this action was 
initiated in this meeting of the Committee to Defend the Bill of 
Rights. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; that is correct. The distribution of the leaf- 
lets did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were any of these persons whom you have men- 
tioned, members of the Committee to Defend the Bill of Rights as far 
as you know ? 

i^Irs. Schneider. I believe all of them were. I know I was invited to 
join the group. Unless I am mistaken there was no written f'o •-nal 
organization. It was just a group of people that met for that purpose. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did these handbills have anything on them to indi- 
cate what organization was sponsoring them ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2009 

Mrs. Schneider. I believe they had on them the Committee to De- 
fend the Bill of Eights. I am not sure that is the exact title, but it 
is something like that. 

Mr. Tavexxer. You stated the chairman of that organization was 
not a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is his name ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Frank Hamill. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he withdrew from participa- 
tion in this enterprise? 

Mrs. Schneider. He was unwilling to distribute leaflets. I am 
aware of another time that he did become frightened. I don't think 
the committee has been reactivated since then. At the same time tliat 
committee had invited Rev. A. A. Heist, former regional head of the 
American Civil Liberties Union to speak at San Diego for tliis com- 
mittee. I was told that the Unitarian Fellowship had decided that 
until that charter was granted they shouldn't present that left-wing 
speaker at that hall, they were going to look around to rent another 
public hall for his appearance, that they would back the meeting and 
everything, they had made arrangements with a stage group from 
Los Angeles to come down but they couldn't have it there at the hall. 

When Rev. A. A. Heist came down Mr. Hamill did meet him at the 
train. He made arrangements for some one else to take him to dinner. 
He didn't come to the meeting, and I haven't seen him since. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. You say this organization did not have him to speak 
before the Committee for the Defense of the Bill of Rights ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct. I had had a Communist club 
meeting with Verna Danger that morning. She had directed me to 
telephone all over San Diego trying to find a public hall for Reverend 
Heist's appearance in San Diego. Each time we were refused a hall. 
None of the public halls was willing to rent their hall for that purpose. 
It was suggested to me that since I was a program chairman of the 
30th District Young Democrats I would be able to rent a hall for this 
purpose under that name. 

Verna Danger gave me $40 from the Communist Party club to pay 
for the hall rental and for the mailing of notices which were to be 
sent out and distributed. 

At the meeting that night at the Bill of Rights Defense Committee 
meeting, it was decided that Obed Rosen, Theresa Vidal, and I should 
be the ones to distribute leaflets in front of this building, since all 
three of us were again registered Democrats. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now let me interrupt you at this point. You say 
you held some position within the 30th District Young Democrats of 
this city ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not 
it was at the direction of the Communist Party that you became 
interested and worked in that organization. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes ; it was. Some time previously we were hav- 
ing disagreements in the Independent Progressive Party ofRce. I 
backed the members of the staff that were opposing the official Com- 
munist Party direction and made myself very unpopular at the In- 
dependent Progressive Party office. I was meeting at that time with 
Dorothy Kykyri and John Kykyri. 



2010 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

They showed me a draft I believe of the Communist Party platform 
and a plan of work for the Communist Party in San Diego which I 
mimeographed for them. This included the idea that we should re- 
register, I don't believe register, directed us to work in the broader 
political organization. Dorothy said at that time that we must quit 
thinking Independent Progressive Party, that San Diego was still 
thinking Independent Progressive Party, that it had to think on other 
terms. She directed me to change my registration to Democratic. 
Two weeks later when I met with her she asked me to take her to the 
registrar of voters and both of us would change our registration. I 
had already done so but I took her down and she changed hers to 
Democratic in my presence. 

We were then told those of us who were registered Democrats — par- 
ticularly Theresa Vidal was told to work in the coming campaign, the 
coming primary, last June; I was directed to become active in the 
Democratic Party also because I had been an active Democrat pre- 
viously. I didn't do it. I didn't go to any of the meetings or any- 
thing. But Dr. Harry Steinmetz and Clinton St. John who had lost 
their positions under the Luckel bill were speaking for this group of 
the 30th District Young Democrats. I attended that meeting and one 
of the non-Communists present, a Democrat, recognized me and asked 
me to go to Fresno as a delegate to the Fresno State convention. 

She remembered my Democratic activities from previous days but 
she had asked me in the presence of several Communist Party mem- 
bers and I felt I couldn't refuse, it was just what they had been urging 
me for months. 

I was then elected to be vice president or program chairman of the 
Young Democrats who naturally knew absolutely nothing of my Com- 
munist Party background. They didn't know a thing about it. 

When I met with Verna Danger at my Communist club meetings 
from that time until the time I was out of the 30th District Young 
Democrats she would check up on the progress of the Young Demo- 
crats, she would find out what I was doing and encourage me, order 
me to continue. 

In this case she told me to rent the hall and to arrange the meetmg, 
which I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she also tell you to put out the leaflets here in 
front of this building ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Which you did. 

Mr. Jackson. Which she did very adequately. Mr. Chairman, may 
I ask a question ? I don't want to break the continuity of the line of 
questioning, but I should like to know this : This is one of the few oc- 
casions when the committee has been in a city following a hearing 
such as the one held last April in San Diego. Did you have occasion 
to know what the effect was, if any, upon the party structure, upon 
its activities, as a result of that hearing « 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. The morning the subpenas were first being 
delivered in San Diego was the first I had had any contact with it. 
Verna Danger called me up and asked me if I had anything to tell her. 
I told her I didn't. Finally she asked me to come over and to go to 
a telephone exchange and look in their master books for Los Angeles 
and find out the name of their Communist Party attorney, which was 
Ben Margolis. I returned to Verna with the telephone number. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2011 

Some of the other people who had been subpenaed were then arriving 
with a subpena. Between that time and probably for 3 or 4 months 
after the meetings there was almost no activity in the San Diego area 
and in fact, up until the present time I don't know of any effective 
organizational work that has been carried on. I do believe your com- 
mittee meetings like this are extremely important and effective against 
communism. 

Mr. Jackson. It is interesting to learn from one who was in a posi- 
tion to watch the course of events related to the conduct of the hearings. 
Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the time these hearings were going on did 
you see any members of the Communist Party at your home ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. I had one of the only televisions in town 
in the Communist Party, I believe. They are against them. It is 
contrary to their ideas of culture, I think, at the present time. So that 
while the hearings were going on many of them came to my home and 
watched the hearings on television. I really believe that is another 
thing that the committee was very effective in. As far as I could see 
among the party members and among my neighbors all other activities 
stopped. Everybody stayed home and watched television. I don't 
think that newspaper publicity is as effective as seeing a committee like 
this in action. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you say that from your observations that 
it had a wholesome effect as far as its influence on Communist Party 
activities was concerned ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I really believe that it did. The non-Com- 
munists, the ordinary people that were watching could understand for 
the first time, could really see in front of them the attitude of the 
Communist Party members that were being asked to testify. Some 
of the most liberal people in town, you know, considered this com- 
mittee much on the basis of the McCarthy committee and on that basis 
disapproved of it. When they saw the fairness and the difference 
in the attitude of the committee they changed their minds completely. 

The Chairman. This is just a new committee. Wait another 6 
months and you will see what certain segments of the press have done 
with this committee. It is a pattern. 

Mrs. Schneider. I do believe though that the use of television was 
extremely important. People who don't study and who only get a 
very condensed report from the newspaper do listen to every word on 
television. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have described what your directions were and 
how you carried them out uj) to the time you were distributing these 
leaflets in front of this building during the hearings being conducted 
here beginning April 19, 1954. I want to call to the attention of the 
present subcommittee that at that time while one of the witnesses was 
testifying, I believe the very first witness, the following appears in 
the record as a statement made by Mr. Doyle : 

Now, Mr. Chairman, I haven't spoken to you of this but as I entered the hall 
here this morning an hour aso there was handed to me on letter-sized paper 
without any official heading thereon a mimeographed sheet entitled "The Time 
Has Come." Of course that is freedom of American citizen to hand out litera- 
ture. Thank God it is and I know we will always fight for that freedom of the 
press and freedom of public expression. But as you know, I am a registered 
Democrat. Now while I live in Los Angeles County I am not familiar with 



2012 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

whether there is such an organization as 30th District Yonng Democrats or not, 
l)nt I think, I\Ir. Chairman, the pulilic is entitled to know whether or not there 
is such an official pronp of youns Democrats in San Diego County and if there is, 
who tho officers thereof are and I would like to say that I as a Democrat would 
appi-eciate very much if there is such an organized group in San Diego County 
that they will identify themselves to me during these hearings so we may know 
whethei- this is just a phony designation hy whoever wrote up this sheet or 
whether or not a really constituted group of young American citizens is sponsor- 
ing this. 

I understood you to say tliat this organization of young Democrats 
knew nothing of the pamphlet or document you were distributing at 
(hat time. 

Mrs. Schneider. That is not quite correct. I was authorized to set 
up the meeting; I was authorized to mail out a leaflet. The leaflet 
wasn't i-end by anyone else on the executive board and the members of 
that group didn't know anything about the speaker or about the left- 
win^r activity connected with it. 

IMr. Tavenner. Or about the propaganda that you had in this 
document? 

Mi's. Schneider. That is quite correct. I was authorized to set up 
the meeting but none of the leftwing business was authorized. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that part of the scheme of the Communist 
Party to use that organization for its own purpose ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes; quite correct. 

The Chairman. Mr. Tavenner, this would be a good place to put in 
the record the current attack on this committee by practically the same 
group. 

Mr. Ta\t>nner. The Communist Party group ? 

The Chairman. Yes. Here it is. 

IMr Tavenner. T hand you a document entitled "Stoolpigeon 
Racket Exposed." Have you seen a copy of it prior to now ? 

Mrs. S("HNETDER. Ycs, I liavc. It was distributed in my neighbor- 
hood and T think half of my neighbors for miles around called me up 
telling me about it and ofi^ering to call the FBI, to call any one, some- 
body do something. 

The Chairman. Don't be disturbed about that, the FBI had it be- 
fore vou did. 

Mrs. Schneider. I am sure they did, but my neighbors were very 
concerned about it. They started telephoning. 

Mr. Jackson. They probably got one of the first proofs from the 
printer. 

IMrs. Schneider. One of them in fact brought this to me. 

Ml-. Jackson. This pamphlet carries the designation of the Civil 
Ri gilts Congress. 

Mrs. Schneider. I think so. 

Mr. Jackson. The Civil Rights Congress has been designated as a 
Communist-front organization, the source of the information will be 
tak'^n at face value. 

IMr. TwTENNER. This bears the notation that it was issued by the 
Civil Rights Congress. 

The Chairman. And with typical courage contains no names. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Was it the accepted procedure in the Communist 
Party to concentrate the distribution of such material where those 
expected to testify would be certain to see it ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2013 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, and they expected it to have a bad effect on 
the neighborhood. Actually of course, it didn't. It made people 
angry toward the person who was going to testify. 

Mr. Tavenner. I desire to introduce the document in evidence and 
ask that it be marked ''Schneider Exhibit No. 23." 

The Chairman. Let it be marked and received in evidence. 

SCHNEIDER EXHIBIT NO. 2 3 (SAN DIEGO) 



STOOLPICEON 
BaCKET 

EXPOSED! 



Inside the Justice Department 
Lie Factory . . . 

Why Lies Are Manufactured 
to Order . . . 

How ike FBI Gets Its Stoolie 
to Come Through . . . 



YOU, THEREI Been reading the papers lately? That's some show Harvey Matusow, the self-con- 
fessed liar and stoolpigeon, is putting on— a real thriller-diller! Only it isn't just a TV show about 
some imaginary people. YOU are in the picture. 

DON'T YOU SEE something wrong with the picture in our country? Isn't there something mes- 
sing up -the American democratic tradition of justice and fair play, in which a man is iimocent 
until proved guilty beyond a shadow of doubt? 

LOOK CLOSE! Behind the mask of justice there lurks today something that begins to look 
more and more like the Gestapo, reaching out with aameless informers, shadowy stoolpigeons, elu- 
sive fingermen . . . reaching out to thousands who have been fired from jobs of all kinds . . . 
hounded . . . harassed . . . reaching out . . . 

TO YOU, whoever you are, a Westinghouse Air Brake worker like HAROLD ]^. BRINEY, a col- 
lege teacher like DR. MELBA PHILLIPS, a minister like BISHOP OXNAM, a businessman like 
EDWARD LAMB, a Negro government employee like MRS. ANNA LEE MOSS, a scientist like 
DR. J. ROBERT OPPENHEIMER, a diplomat like DR. RALPH BUNCHE, a scholar like DR. 
RALPH BARTON PERRY, a student of foreign affairs like OWEN LATTIMORE, a pubUsher 
like DOROTHY SCHIFF, a radio commentator Uke ELMER DAVIS, a newspaperman hke DREW 
PEARSON, a trade unionist hke MAURICE TRAVIS, a Republican hke REP. CHASE of N. J., 
a Democrat like SEN. MANSFIELD of Minnesota, and a Communist leader hke EUGENE DENNIS. 



It all began with Dennis, with the Communists, you 
know, and it grew and grew like a rolling snowball. 

What is this THING threatening YOU, your security? 

It's the BIG LIE, invented by HITLER, brought up 
to date by McCARTHY. It's the Big Lie of a COMMUNIST 
CONSPIRACY. Proof? There is no proof-not a bit that 
was ever brought into a court. Then how do you make the 
BIG LIE stick? Simple ... a paid informer comes into court 
and lies his head off — singing for his supper. 

And Here's fhe Big Deal . . . 

Once the racket is working smoothly . . . once the Big 
Lie is sticking with people . . . then every time someone 
disagrees with McCarthy (or his followers) on foreign 
policy, on taxes, on wages, on desegregation, on schools, 
on Big Business give-aways, then they cry "communist," a 
couple of stoolpigeons do their stuff— and WHAMI— another 
scalp hangs from the McCarthyite belt — , hke Hiss and 
Remington and Ben Davis. . . . And who is next? 



MATVSOWS CONFESSION 



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2014 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 



ANTI-RED WITNESS 
CONF ESSES HE LIED 

His Charge That Roy M. Cohn 
Prefabricated Parts of 
Testimony ts Denied 



By EDWABD UANZAL 

a ex-communist who was a 
key Government witness lo the 
trial of thirteen convicted si^ond- 
ary Communists leaders bi-anded 
himself a professional p^jrjurer 
yesterday. 

Harvey Matt^ow, sel f-styled 
Federal Bureau of Investigation 
Informer, asserted that he had 
deliberately testified fali^ly con- 
cemins: some of tf.e detendants. 
He further charged that part of 
hla testimony v/as prefabricated 
by Roy M. Cohn, then an assistant 
United States Attorney. 

Matusow'a atatement. In affi- 
davit form, was filed lu Federal 
Court here with a moUon for a 
new tElal for the thirtee n ^ead^r s J \ 



t^ew York Times 



MATUSOWADBim 
FARI NG BLACK LIST 

Ex-Communist Testifies He 
Branded as 'Reds' Radio and 
TV Stars He Didn't Know 



By EOWABD RAMZAL 

Hkrvey MaUuow admitted 
yesterday thai he had fabricated 
a blacklist o( radio and tele- 
vision p«rs<}nBlltles for an ad- 
vertising: agency. He added that 
many of theso persons whom he 
had branded as "Reds" were not 
known to him. 

The 28-year-oId former Com- 
mtmist ciso told of bein; paid 
t250 for ten days" work »s a con- 
sultant to the Board of Educa- 
tion here In Its Investigation of 
teachers who were Communists. 
He said his knowledge In this 
field was "so limited" that he 
asked an i^ve8tlgator fcr some 
of his reports so he could ^latUy 
the (250. 

Under cmjui.Mramlnatloa bv 



Do you think that's unreal ... it can't hsfppen here in our land? 

Remember . . . remember the big TV show last summer? The Army-McCarthy 
shindig? That was real, wasn't it? Remember the phonied-up photograph? Re- 
member tlie stolen document from secret files doctored up to cover up the 
snitch? Remember what side was responsible for this hoax— who the big shots 
were— McCarthy and Roy Cohn (remember this name . . . we'll meet this 
.character again)? It was hard to break through that stone wall of secrecy. 

But now a star in this cast of underworld characters HAS SPILLED 
THE BEANS-buf good! HARVEY MATUSOW'was a headlined informer- 
ranked with the best— in the upper brackets. And then something happenedl 

And Now fhe Dirt Is Out! 

Here, as much as possible in his own words, out of his affidavit, Matusow 
tells what happened at the trial of the 13 Communist leaders in New York: 

ITEM I : "/ gave false testimony when I testified that Defendant Perry said . . . 
(that) the working class, led by the Communist Party, would have 
to forcefully overthrow the bourgeoisie iri order to set up the Negro 
nation while estabhshing socialism." 

ITEM 2: "My testimony concerning this conversation with Defendant Trach- 
tenberg is false. ... At no time during the many occasions that I 
met with and talked with (him) did he indicate that he advocated, 
the overthrow of the U.S. Government by force and violence. . . ." 

ITEM 3: "My testimony concerning the statements I attributed to (Defendant^ 
Johnson) to the effect that it was necessary to get (the youth) into 
the trade unions in the mid-west in basic industries, and in the' 
event of any war with the Soviet Union we woiJd then have people 
on our side, is entirely false." 

ITEM 4: "My testimony that ( Defendant Charney) said that: Tuerto Rico 
was being used as a military' base by the U.S. and an independent 
Puerto Rico would help to destroy those bases and cripple the Carib- ■ 
bean defense'; and that "He pointed out that the only time Puerto 
Rico would get its independence was when we had conducted 
an effective struggle for socialism and had overthrown the bour- 
geoisie there,' is entirely false." 

ITEM 5: His testimony accusing Henry Winston of stating that Communist 
youth should get into mid-west basic industries "so that in the event 
of any imperialist war . . . we could help the side of the Soviet 
Union . . . and slow down production, and in some places call 
strikes, and in general see that the war production, in the event 
of a war, would not carry forward to its fullest capadly, was false." 

ITEM 6: The testimony concerning what Beatrice Sisldnd said is entirely 
false. I had no recollection at the time I testified, nor do I now have 
any recollection as to what if anything was taught to me. . . . 
The testimony was entirely fabricated to create the false impression 
with the court and . . . jury that the Communist Party taught and 
advocated the overthrow of the U.S. Government by force and 
violence.' 

DO YOU SEE HOVl^ ALL THESE UES HAVE TO DO WITH A "COM- 
MUNIST CONSPIRACY," WITH "FORCE A^ID 'VIOLENCE"? 

The government had to have this lying testimony to get a conviction. It had 
no other proof. The Big Lie can't live without informers. Well, ask Matusow: 

ITEM 7; With regard to his testimony about Trachtenberg, Matusow swears 
the first discussion took place with Roy Cdbn (remember him up 
above), then Assistant U.S. Attorney who worked with him in pre- 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2015 



paring his testimony, "in a car driven by a Special Agent of the 
FBI," and that "U.S. Attorney David Marks, Roy Cohn and J. J. 
McCarthy, a Special Agent of the FBI, and two otlier individuals 
were seated in the car at the time"; and that in several sessions that 
followed with Cohn "we developed the answer which I gave in my 
testimony"; and that "Wc both knew that Trachtenberg had never 
made the statements which I attributed to him in my testimony." 

ITEM 8: With regard to Siskind, "I had informed U.S. Attorney Roy Cohn that 
I was unable to recall what, if anything, she had said in the course. 
During several sessions I had with Cohn, he helped me formulate 
the answer which 1 memorized and gave in my testimony . . . not hosed 
on what was actiujlly said by Siskind, but was created for the purposes 
of the trial." 

So you see, if you can't find the proof you need, you MANUFACTURE it. 
There is draft after draft of prepared "testimony" in which Cohn, in notes IN 
HIS OWN HANDWRITING, drags in "force and violence." 

In fact, on one occasion, Matusow didn't do so well in his testimony, and the 
U.S. Attorney told him so. Matuscrw later explained at the new-trial hearings, 
"Oh, I hadn't memorized the whole thing well enough." At night, the U.S. 
Attorney refreshed his memory, and the next day he did OK. 

Matusow has made a similar sworn confession about his testimony in the 
case of Chnton Jencks, prominent trade unionist found guilty of perjury on the 
basis primarily of Matusow's testimony, for which the U.S. Attorney had espe- 
cially thanked him in a personal letter. 

AND NOW COME TWO MORE STOOLPIGEONS, Marie Natwig and 
LoweU Watson, WHO SWEAR THEY DID THE SAME THING IN THE 
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION HEARINGS AGAINST TV 
OPERATOR, Edward Lamb. Marie Natwig SWEARS SHE WAS "COERCED" 
BY GOVERNMENT ATTORNEYS WHO NEEDED HER LIES, and Watson 
SWEARS HE LIED REPEATEDLY ABOUT LAMB OWING TO THE "PER- 
SUASIVE POWERS" OF THE F.C.C. INVESTIGATORS AND LEGAL 
STAFF. ONE OF THOSE WHO INVESTIGATED HIS LYING, Watson 
SWEARS, IS A PAID JUSTICE DEPARTMENT INFORMER NAMED 
William G. Cummings. THIS STOOLPIGEON Cummings, SIGNIFICANTLY, 
WAS ALSO A GOVERNMENT WITNESS IN THE DENNIS AND ELIZA- 
BETH GURLEY FLYNN CASES. ADDS UP, DOESNT IT? 

And that isn't all. Matusow has called the tiu-n on stoolies Budenz, Lautner 
and Elizabeth Bentley. The lying of informers has been established publicly. 

PAUL CROUCH, veteran informer, was exposed on the witness stand as a 
repeated perjurer in cases against Harry Bridges, Dr. Oppenheimer, Jacob 
Burck, the Philadelphia Smith Act defendants, etc. 

MANNING JOHNSON was forced to admit his lying and his eagerness to 
lie a thousand times over, if necessary. 

MILTON SANTWIRE and STEVEN SCHEMANSKE admitted perjury in 
the Michigan Smith Act trials. 

The DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE has done nothing but protect these per- 
jurers who are blackmailing the government <vith threats to spill the beans. 

So here we have the whole dirty business right out of the horses' mouths. 

cft only do McCarthyites rely on lies, THEY CREATE THE LIES. And not 
only is McCarthy and his immediate gang involved in this filth, BUT HIS 
POLITICAL FOLLOWERS IN THE HIGHEST ECHELONS OF THE GOV- 
ERNMENT, mcltuUng the Justice Department and the FBI. 



q WTTMES S S»^y S HE LIED 

She Had Linkc.» Radio ind TV. 
Operator With Communitts 

WASHINGTON. Feb. 10 UF,— 
Mrs. Marie Natvlg, . Sl-year-old 
Government witness, testified to- 
day that Government attorneys 
last October prevented her from 
repudiating her testimony that 
Edward Lamb once had been aa* 
soclated with Communists. 

Recalled for further crosa-e»» 
amination at a Federal Communi* 
cations Commission inquliy, sha 
said she wanted then to aay.'Sh* 
had lied, but lawyer for the com* 
mission would not allow her Xo 
do sp. They have said no attempt 
was made to influence her test!* 
( mony. 

The hearing, which began last 
September, Is on allegations that 
Mr. Lamb, publisher of The Kris 
(Pa.) Dispatch and operator of 
radio and television stations, once 
knowingly a^oclated with Com* 
munlsts and gave money to tba 
Coitimunist party. 
1 Mr. Lamb Is seeking renewal 
of his Erie television (tatton 
license. 



New York Times 



SECOND WITNESS 
ADM ITS F.C.C. LIES 

Ex-Red'sTestimony Disrupts 

Lamb Hearing — Absolves 

Justice Department 



By RUSSELL BAKEB 

Sp<:ul to The New Vork T\mtt. 

WASHINQTON, Feb. 18 — 
Harvey Matusow, the' sel^-pto- 
clalmed liar, had more company 
today. 

He was Lowell Watson. Kan- 
sas dairy farmer and former 
member of the Communist party. 
Like Mr. Matusow. he is one ot 
the Justice Depatment's paid 
"expert" witnesses on Internal 
communism. 

Mr. Watson startled and 
snarled an already tangled Fed- 
eral Commimicatlons Commis- 
sion hearing today. He declared 
from the witness stand that he 
had given false testimony to link 
Bdward O. Lamb to communism. 

Mr. Lamb's hcense-renena] 



2016 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 



AND THEY DO IT BECAUSE CONVICTION IN COMMUNIST "CON- 
SPIRACY" TRIALS, AND IN ALL OTHER POLITICAL TRIALS, INVESTI- 
GATIONS, DEPORTATION PROCEEDINGS, LOYALTY HEARINGS, IS 
IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT THE BIG LIE - WITHOUT STOOLPIGEONS - 
WITHOUT CREATING LIES OUT OF WHOLE CLOTH. 

That's what the San Francisco Chronicle meant when it said editorially, "In- 
forming is a dirty business, and . . . some of the dirt is quite hkely to rub off 
on the practitioners." The practitioners are the U.S. Justice Department, which 
has been urged by 160 prominent initiators and sponsors in a petition "To Uphold 
Justice," to stop the use of paid informers and to reexamine their' testimony in 
cases in which they participated. 

The Justice Department and the FBI, by inventing lies, by honoring lying 
informers, by harassing weak individuals into becoming lying stoolpigeons, are 
making a wreck out of moral principles. That is why 19 outstanding ministers 
of various faiths have protested the government's use of paid informers and have 
called for a Senate Judiciary Committee investigation with public hearings. 

That is why thfe CIO convention, the nationally known columnists, the Alsop 
brothers, the New York Times, the Herald-Tribune, the New York Post, the 
Washington Post, the Christian Science Monitor, the Democratic Digest, the 
Providence, R, I. Journal, Senator Margaret Chase Smith, and other prominent 
individuals, organizations and periodicals have condemned the use of informers. 

There is no point in gnashing your teeth at this rape of justice, at this con- 
tinued persecutiop of innocent people. The time has come to do something 
about it. Something CAN be done, and MUST be done about it if every single 
American is to feel the security guaranteed by the Preamble to our Constitution. 
The American people once did do something when they forced the LaFollette 
investigation of the labor spy racket in the '30s. 

They can do it again— NOW. Here's what: 



MATDSOW ADMITS 
LIES AGAINST 244 

Some 'Aspect' of Testimony 

Falsa In Each Case, Ha Says 

^All Invltad to Raply 



By RCSSELL BAKER 

SPMlKl usTh* Mew Tork TUccf . 

WASHINGTON, March 2 — 
Harvey Matusow declared today 
that he probably had lied about 
every person he ever testified 
agaSiiai in Congressional hear- 
ings. 

He also admitted, before end- 
ing three days on che witness 
stand, that he once had written 
a "vindictive and lying manu- 
script" about his career as a 
Govemnient witr.ees, * 

Th« "vindicUve and lying" 
story, he insisted, had "nothing 
to do" with his later book, "False 
Witness." the tale of his career 
that toucbed oft the Senate In- 
vestigation. 

Senator James O. Eastland. 



New York Times, March 3, 1955 



WRITE OR WIRE to Sfen. Harley M. Kilgore, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Wash- 
ington, D. C, demanding a thorough investigation by his Committee— and not some McCarthy- 
ite set-up— of the government's use of paid informers. 

WRITE OR WIRE to Attorney General Herbert BrowneU, Justice Department, Washington, D.C., 
demanding a new trial for the 13 New York Communist leaders on the basis of the new evidence 
in Matusow's confession. 

WRITE OR WIRE to Attorney General BrowneU demanding new trials in the Clinton Jencks 
case and all other cases where paid informers have been used as witnesses. Common justice, de- 
cency, and humanity demand this. 

ADOPT RESOLUTIONS in your trade union or civic organization against the use of the po- 
litical informer system'. 



CrviL RIGHTS CONGRESS 
.6 East 17 at. (Room 200), New York 3, N. Y. 

I enclose my contribution of $ to help the fight 

against the use of informers, to defend their victims, and to 
uphold civil Uberties. 

Name . .' 

Address 

CrrY Zonk Sta-A 



CONTRIBUTE NOW to Civil Rights 
Congress to help the fight against the use 
of informers, to defend their victims, and 
to uphold civil Uberties 

< M. ACT NOW! 

LET'S GET BACK TO THE BILL OF 
RIGHTS and let Americans freely speak 
their minds without fear of political in- 
formers! 

Issued by Civil Rights Conchess 
e East 17 St, New York 3, N. Y. 



Mr. Tavenner. I turn to the transcript of the testimony for the 
following day and again to a statement by Congressman Doyle where 
he pnts into the record a statement handed to him by members of the 
official bocard of the 30th District Young Democrats of San Diego 
dated Tuesday, April 20, 1954, in which they say that the preparation 
of the paper was without approval of the executive board of that 
group. . 

Was the distribution of these papers connected with a meeting which 
you say was to be held that night, the first night ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES EST THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2017 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the meeting which was to be attended by the 
Eeverend A. A. Heist ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee just what occurred at 
that meeting ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Some of the Democratic executive board heard a 
little bit more about Mr. Heist and heard about the distribution of 
leaflets at this hall and they realized there was a little bit more to it 
than they had thought. They came to this meeting and persuaded 
Mr. Doyle to go with them to what he considered a legitmate Demo- 
cratic meeting — didn't tell him what was going to happen at the meet- 
ing but they thought perhaps his presence there could save the situa- 
tion. 

When I arrived at the meeting the rest of the Democratic executive 
board informed me that I should let Reverend Heist speak for 10 
minutes and then should let Congressman Doyle speak the rest of tlie 
time. I was faced with a room full of party members who had been 
subpenaed, party lawyers from Los Angeles, leftwingers from San 
Diego. I don't think there was a single non-Progressive person 
present. 

The Democratic executive board then made the mistake of turning 
it over to me as a good Communist Party member to handle the agenda 
after the business was taken 

Mr. Tavenner. Did they know at that time you were a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. No. Nothing probably would have happened ex- 
cept in front of a bunch of Communist Party members who were that 
influential in the party I couldn't back down. Therefore I b I'eve 1 
explained the situation to the people in the audience, asked poor Con- 
gressman Doyle publicly if he would be willing to speak first since the 
other speaker was the scheduled speaker. Congressman Doyle got to 
his feet and gave a talk, I don't know how he did it, and then of coui'se 
after he finished and left, Reverend Heist finished, blasting the com- 
mittee. Everyone in the audience, of course, had been laughing at 
Representative Doyle and I think they were booing too. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, this was a putup job by the Com- 
munist Party on a member of this committee ? 

Mrs. Schneider. It certainly was. and 1 don't know how Representa- 
tive Doyle could possibly give a talk. I don't know any other person 
who could get up under those circumstances and talk. 

Mr. Jackson. You don't know Representative Doyle. He can stand 
up under any circumstances. 

Mrs. ScHNEroER. Faced by an obvious audience of leftwingers like 
that who were laughing in his face. 

The Chairman. But we have had experts do it. We do not mind 
them. 

Mrs. ScHNEroER. I was very proud of being a Democrat that night. 

Mr. Jackson. For the Republican Party, I thank you. I was afraid 
we were going to be completely excluded from this rally. 

The Chairman. Speaking for the majority, I welcome that. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. These documents were paid for by the Communist 
Party, as I understand it. 



2018 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. The documents, the stamps and the hall rental. 
The paper was furnished by the Independent Progressive Party. I 
think I paid for it out of Communist Party funds, but we mimeo- 
graphed it and prepared most of it at the Independent Progressive 
Party office. David Starcevic helped me prepare it. We then took it 
to the Hillcrest Unitarian Center where members of that group folded 
and helped to address them. 

Mr. Tavenner. So all these various groups which you have testified 
to that were infiltrated by the Communist Party participated in this 
attack upon the committee which you have described. That is cor- 
rect, isn't it ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I would substitute for your word infiltrated, 
founded. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat relationship was there between the 30,000 
pamphlets prepared by the Committee for the Defense of the Bill of 
Rights and these documents which were delivered here at this building? 

Mrs. Schneider. There was no connection between them except that 
arrangements for distribution of both were made at the same meeting 
and I believe I copied most of the wording out of that first leaflet. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I would like to dismiss the witness 
temporarily from the stand. 

The Chairman. You are excused until recalled. You are still under 
subpena. 

Do you wish to call another witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Arthur Stevens. 

The Chairman. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give 
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mr. Stevens. Yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF ARTHUR STEVENS, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 
BEN MARGOLIS, LOS ANGELES 

Mr. Stevens. Mr. Chairman before I open my testimony I have a 
statement here which I would like to read. 

The Chairman. You may file it and we will determine whether or 
not to make it a part of the record. 

Mr. Stevens. This is a very short statement and I would like to 
read it. 

The Chairman. That is contrary to our rules. 

Mr. Stevens. We have been listening to stoolpigeons 2 days attack 
me and I should be given 5 minutes to read a statement. 

The Chairman. You may leave the statement here and we will de- 
termine whether or not to make it a part of the record. 

Mr. Stevens. Are you afraid to read it ? 

The Chairman. Just leave it. We are not going to deviate from the 
rules of the committee for you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, sir. 

Mr. Steven. Arthur Stevens. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted you are accompanied by counsel. Will 
counsel please identify himself for the record. 

Mr. Margolis. Ben Margolis. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Stevens? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2019 

Mr. Stevens. Specifically I was born in Downers Grove, 111., but 
I would like to add to that the day before yesterday was Independence 
Day and I was born in the land of the free and the home of the brave^ 
and I hope to leave it that way, too, in spite of this committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your edu- 
cational training has been ? 

Mr. Stevens. Grammar school, high school, 4 years of college. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your employment ? 

Mr. Stevens. I am unemployed. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has your profession or trade been? 

Mr. Stevens. I have been a salesman most of my life. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Stevens. San Diego. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in San Diego? 

Mr. Stevens. Since the fall of 1950. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether the 
present address of the Community Unitarian Fellowship is 4561 North 
Avenue ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Stevens. I will not discuss the Community Unitarian Fellow- 
ship or any other organization with this committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may I have a direction that the 
witness answer the question ? 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Stevens. I recognize this question that you have just asked 
as one of your door-opening questions. You have one purpose only in 
asking me the question, which is to lead me into naming people and 
making me a stoolpigeon and you are not going to get away with it. 

The Chairman. Answer the question. 

Mr. Stevens. For that reason and others which I am going to 
give you I am going to decline to answer that question. And now I 
would like to have the courtesy of being able to give my reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you have any legal basis or legal grounds for 
refusing to answer the question I am sure the committee will hear you. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Stevens. I will state the grounds for my refusal and you can 
rule on them later. In the first place, I am going to refuse to answer 
that question and all other questions like it on the basis of the first 
amendment, which guarantees to me the right of free speech, free 
press, free association, free religion. I believe that in this country 
we have the right of the secret ballot and I am not going to let you 
take it away from me. 

My second reason for refusing to answer this question is that you 
know as well as I do that you are forbidden to investigate in areas 
where you are forbidden to legislate and this is clearly one of them. 
Your very act of asking me this question is a violation of my con-: 
stitutional rights and the Supreme Court in May of this year in the 
Emspak and Quinn cases decided that and I know it. Chief Justice 
Warren 

Mr. Jackson. Regular order. 

The Chairman. Mr. Witness 



Mr. Stevens. I am going to give my reasons. 



2020 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

The Chairman. You are not going to make a speech. 

Mr. Stevens. I am going to give my reasons in my own way. 

Mr. Jackson. As far as I am concerned, he is going to be ejected 
from the hearing room if he shows this obvious contempt toward a 
congressional committee. 

Mr. Stevens. I have nothing but contempt for this committee. 

Mr. Jackson. That is obvious. 

The Chairman. That does not disturb us. 

Mr. Jackson. I would be alarmed if you were less contemptuous. 

The Chairman. Never mind reading the cases that you mentioned. 

"\Aniat was that question, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The question is whether or not the address of the 
Community Unitarian Fellowship is 4561 North Avenue, San Diego. 

Mr. Stevens. I have already told you that I am going to decline 
to answer that question. I now want to continue with my reasons 
and don't tell me wliether they are legal or not until after I have given 
them. Now my third reason for refusing to answer this question is 
that tliis committee from its very inception has been an 
infringement 

M'r. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, his answer is not responsive. 

The Chairman. That is not an answer. 

Mr. Stevens. My fourth reason is that I heard a nauseous display 
hei^e yesterday when you were obviously invading freedom of religion 
in spite of the smug disavowal of it by I think all three members of 
the committee. You were invading the freedom of religion and I am 
Mo*^ n-oincr to staucl here and let you get by with it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. 

Mr. Stevens. I haven't finished yet. My fifth reason for refusing to 
nnsAver that question is that it is a violation of my rights under the 
fifth amendmpnt. And T mean all of it. Not just part of it. T mean 
to use the fifth amendment in the way that it was intended to be used 
bv onr forefathers which was a protection from such bodies as this. 
My six^h reason 

The Chairman. In other words, you decline to answer on the 
gronrids that it mi^rht incriminate you? 

Mr. Ste\tens. I have another reason that it is none of your business, 
the answer to this question. If you wish I will be very glad to leave 
voliiTitarily. 

The Chairman. I think you would have much preferred not to 
havf> been here. 

Mr. Ste\'ens. I didn't come here willingly, and I am not here to 
fief the approval of this committee. I don't want it. It is the kiss 
of dpath. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Stevens, are you familiar with any nlan of the 
Communist Partv or do you have knowledjre regarding the plan of 
the Communist Partv in San Die.<ro to enga<Te in Communist Party 
activities within the Community Unitarian Fellowship? 

Mr. Steat=:ns. That is the same question. In other words I am 
simnlv not o-oin£r to answer questions of that kind and I have jriven 
yon my reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at a meeting of the San Diego Peace 
Forum at which Mrs. Schneider was made its chairman ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2021 

Mr. Stevens. I am not going to answer any questions of this com- 
mittee about political affiliations — associations, and I am certainly 
not going to match my word against that of a paid stool pigeon. I 
have given you the reasons. 

The Chairman. Just a minute. Mrs. Schneider is a good American 
and I resent what you have said because nobody would ever say that 
about you except a handful of people. Thank God so far it is only 
a handful. 

Mr. Stevens. I repeat it in spite of your resentment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Peter ITyun, the executive 
secretary of the Southern California Peace Crusade ? 

Mr. Stevens. I have told you that I will not answer such questions 
and I repeat it now, same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you confer with Peter Hyun regarding the 
functions that Mrs. Anita Schneider should perform in the San Diego 
Peace Forum ? 

Mr. Stevens. Well, I have heard before that your hearing isn't 
very good, but I am going to tell you the same thing again that 1 
simply will not answer such questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. You will not ? 

Mr. Stevens. For the same reasons. I hope I have made it clear. 

Mr. Tavenner. You will not give tliis committee any information 
that you may have regarding Communist Party activities in various 
front organizations ? 

Mr. Stevens. I will not give this committee any information about 
my political affiliations, associations. I will not do it for the same 
reasons. 

The Chairman. Just a minute. Do you call your association with 
this peace group political ? 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Stevens. I am not going to answer your question, Mr. Walter, 
but I would like to ask you one, if I could. 

The Chairman. Yes, indeed. I will be willing to be sworn. I 
will make a deal with you. I will answer any question you ask me 
if you will answer only one question I ask you. 

Mr. Stevens. Very smart, Mr. Walter. Congratulations, but I 
am not going to take your bargain. The question I want to ask you 
is this 

The Chairman. No. 

Mr. Stevens. Are you afraid to answer it ? 

The Chairman. I want to make a deal with you. 

Mr. Stevens. I will make no deal with you. I don't trust you. 

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where clid you live prior to your coming to San 
Diego in 1950? 

Mr. Stevens. I lived at Pasadena. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you live in Pasadena ? 

Mr. Stevens. I lived in Pasadena and Altadena for approximately 
11 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 
San Diego from 1950 up until 2 or 3 months ago ? 



2022 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Stevens. Mr. Tavenner, you know there is a little song going 
around about Davy Crockett. He was supposed to be the greatest 
trapper of a hundred years or so ago and you are his logical successor. 
I would like to give you a coonskin hat, if you will accept it. It is a 
trappy question and I will not answer you. You know it. You have 
the same answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you expelled from the Communist Party 
within the last 30 or 60 days ? 

Mr. Stevens. I am not going to answer that question, and you know 
it, for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Any questions ? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

Mr. Jackson. No questions. 

The Chairman. There is nothing further. You are excused. 

(Whereupon the witness was excused.) 

Mr. Stevens. Are you willing to answer the question that I propose 
to you, Mr. Walter ? 

The Chairman. Call your next witness. 

Mr, Tavenner. Mrs. Mignon Jenkyns. 

The Chairman. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give 
shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mrs. Jenkyns. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MUS. MIGNON JENKYNS, ACCOMPANIED BY HER 
COUNSEL, BEN MARGOLIS 

Mr. Tavenner. '\^'liat is your name, please ? 

Mrs. Jenkyns. Mignon Jenlry^ns. M-i-g-n-o-n J-e-n-k-y-n-s. 

I have a statement also which I would like to file with the committee. 
I would like to read it but I don't imagine I can do so, so I will file it 
with the committee and any newsmen who want it. I have already 
sent copies to the two Vista papers where I live and asked them to be 
present at the hearing and I believe one of them is. 

The Chairman. In view of the fact that you sought this publicity, 
don't you think perhaps we ought to televise these hearings? Then 
you wouldn't have to be bothered calling the press. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Jenkyns. I think they should be done away with altogether. 

The Chairman. I am not surprised at what you say. 

Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted, Mrs. Jenkyns, that you are accompanied 
by the same counsel who appeared for the preceding witness. 

Are you a native of the State of California ? 

Mrs. Jenkyns. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were you born ? 

Mrs. Jenkyns. Jersey City, N. J. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you move to California ? 

Mrs. Jenkyns. Thirty-one or thirty-two years ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you made California your residence since 
that time ? 

Mrs. Jenkyns. Yes. 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2023 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mrs. Jenkyns. Vista. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, briefly what 
your formal educational training has been ? 

Mrs. Jenkyns. Graduated from Lincoln High School in Jersey 
City and Packard Business College in New York and various exten- 
sion courses at the University of California at different times. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation or profession ? 

Mrs. Jenkyns. Housewife, and that is one thing you can't take 
away from me. You can send me to jail, but you can't take my job 
away from me. 

Mr. Tavenner. No one is seeking to send you to jail. 

Mrs. Jenkyns. Some jobs have been lost and that is one I can't 
lose. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Mrs. Jenkyns, are you familiar with the organiza- 
tional setup of the Independent Progressive Party in the northern 
part of San Diego County ? 

Mrs. Jenkyns. My understanding is that if I answer one question 
in that I have no right to use the fifth amendment and I don't know 
what you are going to ask me and I am afraid that I read accounts 
of other testimony — Bishop Oxnam, and so forth by this committee, 
and I am afraid you would trap me into something and I am going 
to refuse. 

Mr. Ta^t:nner. Let me explain fully what I have in mind so you 
will see what it is I want to inquire about. 

The committee has heard evidence in Los Angeles, San Diego, and 
a number of other places of the activity of the Communist Party in 
the organizing of the Independent Progressive Party and in its func- 
tioning. The committee is endeavoring to make a study of what that 
participation was, what the Communist Party had in mind in trying 
to do that, if it did, and the method that it used. Now that is the reason 
I am aslving you about your knowledge of the Independent Progres- 
sive Party in the northern section of this county. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Jenkyns. Well, I don't think you have the right to inquire 
about a political party and that, as I understand it, was a legal politi- 
cal party in California. I think that is the same as asking a person 
how he voted really. I don't think you should do that. 

Mr. Tavenner. No, I am not interested in how you vote. I am in- 
terested in the activity of the Communist Party within the realm of 
politics, within the realm of religion, within the Government, within 
labor or within schools or any place we find it. There is no area that 
should be immune, there is no area in which the Communists should 
have a free reign to carry out their purpose without the Congress of 
the United States being permitted to inquire as to what the Communist 
Party objective is and how it is functioning. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Jenkyns. What was the question ? 

Mr. Ta\t]Nner. The question was : Are you familiar with the organ- 
izational setup of the Independent Progressive Party in the northern 
area of this county? You said that you were afraid to answer the 



2024 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

question because you didn't know what the other questions would be. 
Now I have given you a fair idea as to what the other questions would 
be. 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Jenktns. Well, I am afraid I still don't trust you. That is 
an idea but I don't know what questions you are going to ask until you 
ask them. So I think I had better decline to discuss that at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you are uneasy about the question or uneasy 
about me, let me withdraw that question for the present. 

Are you aware of any effort on the part of the Communist Party 
to dictate the policies of the Independent Progressive Party insofar as 
the northern area of San Diego County is concerned ? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel.) 

Mrs. Jenkyns. I am not going to discuss anything about any politi- 
cal organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party 
at any time since 1951 ? 

Mrs. Jenktns. That comes under the same category, I would say, 
of questions about political activities and I could not answer that. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is certainly not a political question. 

Mr. Jenktns. Of course that is your opinion, but I think if you go 
back far enough at one time the Communist Party was actually a legal 
party on the ballot, wasn't it, in California ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Jenktns. Wouldn't that make it political ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The Congress of the United States defined what it 
considers, after having reviewed many, many years of investigative 
action of this and other committees, what the Communist Party is. 

Mrs. Jenktns. Rut you are the Congress of the United States. I 
agree with Dean Griswold, of Harvard, where he says these committees 
actually are the Congress of the United States. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Jenktns. A delegate represents the whole body. If I don't 
trust you then it means I at the moment can't trust the Congress of 
the United States. 

Mr. Tavenner. Regardless of your distrust of Congress, will you 
answer the question, please ? 

Mrs. Jenktns. No, I have said before that I won't. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask for a direction to the witness ? 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer that question. 

Mrs. Jenktns. Then I claim the right not to answer it primarily 
under the first amendment, but just to be absolutely safe in this case 
the fifth amendment also. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party at 
this time? 

Mrs. Jenktns. That is the same, practically the same question, and 
the same answer. 

The Chairman. What is your answer ? 

Mrs. Jenktns. That I decline to answer under the fifth and the 
first. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold any official position in the Independent 
Progressive Party in the northern part of San Diego County ? 

Mrs. Jenktns. That would come under the same category of those 
questions. I think in some cases those things are a matter of record ; 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2025 

aren't they ? I am not sure whether it is a matter of record or not, as 
to what positions are held if you hold any position. I mean, for in- 
stance you can go down to the registrar of voters and find out how a 
person is registered. Whether or not you can find out whether or not 
a person held any particular position 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask that the witness be directed to answer. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mrs. Jenkyns. I stated it came under the category of the other 
questions and that I would refuse under the first and fifth. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

The Chairman. Were you a member of the San Diego Peace Forum ? 

Mrs. Jenkyns. That comes under the same category of questions 
and I just 

The Chairman. Do you put the San Diego Peace Forum in the same 
category with the Communist Party and the Independent Progressive 
Party? 

(The witness conferred with her counsel. ) 

Mrs. Jenkyns. I put the question in the same category as being an 
inquiry into my private activities and private life. 

The Chairman. I direct you to answer that question. 

Mrs. Jenkyns. Well, I refuse under the first and fifth. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

The Chairman. You are excused. 

Call your next witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Leo Lueb. 

The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand and be sworn ? Do 
you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Lueb. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF LEO C. LUEB, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

BEN MAEGOLIS 

Mr. Lueb. I have a statement I would like to deliver, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. File it, please. 

Mr. Lueb. The "stool pigeons" and "phonies" take up 2 or 3 days 
and file documents 

The Chairman. You may file it. 

Mr. Lueb. I want to read it. 

The Chairman, You are not going to read it. You may leave it 
here. 

Mr. Lueb. I will pass it to the press while I am here. You do some- 
thing for democracy. 

The Chairman. That is all right. 

Mr, Tavenner. State your name, please, sir. 

Mr. Lueb. Leo C. Lueb. L-u-e-b. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is noted you are accompanied by the same counsel 
who accompanied the preceding witnesses. 

Mr. Lueb. I think he should be given the courtesy of stating his 
name. 

Mr. Tavenner. We know Mr. Marjrolis very well. 

Mr. Lueb. I am proud he is my attorney. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were yoa born, Mr. Lueb? 



2026 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. LuEB. Born in the State of Kansas in 1908. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you now reside in California ? 

Mr. LuEB. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere? 

Mr. LuEB. I don't think that is pertinent or relevant to the questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. May I ask that the witness be directed to answer 
the question? 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. 

Mr. LuEB. The committee has my address, I was served by the 
committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. I ask you where you live. 

Mr. LuEB. City of San Diego. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where? 

Mr. Lueb. On Imperial Avenue. 

Mr. Tavenner. What number, please ? 

Mr. Lueb. 3332. If you want my telephone number I will give 
that to you too. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that in San Diego ? 

Mr. Lueb. It is. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in San Diego ? 

Mr. Lueb. Approximately about 3 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you live prior to that ? 

Mr. Lueb. I lived in the city of Los Angeles. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you live in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Lueb. Approximately 6 or 7 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed in Los Angeles, or what 
was your occupation while there ? 

Mr. Lueb. You want to know what I was doing in Los Angeles or 
now? Be specific about these questions when you put them. 

Mr. Tavenner. I made it specific. 

Mr. Lueb. They are confusing. 

Mr. Tavenner. I made it specific both as to time and place. Will 
you please answer the question. 

Mr. Lueb. You notice I am handicapped and I cannot work ; I lost 
my trade during the depression, lost my hand on a freight train. 

The Chairman. You are directed to answer. 

Mr. Lueb. I am going to answer it but don't tell me how to answer 
it because the things I am going to say build up to the job I had. I was 
a news vendor. If you don't know what that is, it sells newspapers 
on the street. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you living in San Diego in 1953 ? 

Mr. Lueb. I said I had been here 3 years. I guess you can multiply 
and subtract, can't you ? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Yes, I think so. 

Mr. Lueb. Go ahead. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1953 did you play any part in the formation of an 
organization known as the National Negro Labor Council? 

Mr. Lueb. You are getting Jim Crow now. You have been anti 
everything else. I guess it is time to get anti Jim Crow. 

Mr. Jackson. This is a very low order of contempt, Mr. Chairman. 
I have seen many much better. 

The Chairman. Were you active in that organization? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2027 

Mr. LuEB. I refuse to answer any questions pertaining to the Negro 
Labor Council. I think you know why. If you want me to say I will 
give the fifth amendment. 

The Chairman. The fifth amendment ? 

Mr. LuEB. Yes. Not for the reasons you think because I am guilty, 
because I am innocent of anything. I stand before this committee in- 
nocent and the only thing I am guilty of I am unemployed and if I have 
to have a job crawling on my belly before this committee I will remain 
unemployed. 

The Chairman. You are not charged with anything. 

Mr. LuEB. Why ask me these questions ? Why was I drug up here? 

The Chairman. Because we want to find out about some activities 
in this community and we know you can help us. 

Mr. LuEB. I sure am not going to undermine the rights of the Negro 
people by sitting up here and having you attack them. I will tell you 
that. Any organization they might have and might not have. 

Mr. Jackson. What rights of the Negro people have been brought 
into question ? 

Mr. LuEB. The fact that you raise the question is the fact you attack 
the Negro. 

Mr. Jackson. That is wierd rationalization. 

The Chairman. You ought to read Jackie Robinson's testimony 
about this committee, and what he doesn't say about your kind of 
people. 

Mr. LuEB. If you are not a member of the Ku Klux Klan, you owe 
them money for back dues, you owe them money for not paying your 
past dues. You sure owe them money. 

The Chairman. You made out an awfully good case for a change of 
the rules of the House of Representatives, so as to permit television. 
All people in the United States should see you testify. 

Mr. Jackson. I agree, Mr. Chairman. One of the best things 
that could happen in the fight against Communist aggression would 
be to see this witness on television. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Lee Major? 

Mr. LuEB. I refuse to name any people or discuss any people what- 
ever, on the grounds previously stated. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you refuse to answer that question ? 

Mr. LuEB. That is right. 

Mr. Jackson. On what grounds ? 

Mr. LuEB. On the ground of the first and the fifth amendments. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you confer at any time with Verna Danger re- 
garding work in the National Negro Labor Council ? 

Mr. LuEB. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds so previ- 
ously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 
1953 in San Diego County ? 

Mr. Lueb. I refuse to answer any question pertaining to the Com- 
munist Party on the grounds so previously stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you aware of any Communist Party plans to 
be active in the Negro Labor Council ? 

Mr. Ltjeb. I refuse to answer any questions, I just told you, per- 
taining to the Communist Party on the grounds so previously stated. 



2028 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Jackson. Was that question directed to his membership in the 
Communist Party or the National Negro Labor Council ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The question in substance was whether or not he 
was aware of any Communist Party plans to become active within the 
National Negro Labor Council. Were you aware of the existence of 
the plan on the part of the Communist Party to direct the affairs of 
the Independent Progressive Party in San Diego at any time after 
1951? 

Mr. LuEB. Would you mind stating that question again ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you aware of the existence of any Communist 
Party plan to influence the conduct of the affairs of the Independent 
Progressive Party of San Diego ? 

Mr. LuEB. I told you, I refuse to answer any questions pertaining 
to the Communist Party whatever on the grounds so previously stated, 
regardless of how you word them I am going to refuse to answer them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you decided you will not give this committee 
any information relating to Communist Party activities in this area, 
the methods used by the Communist Party or the extent of its work in 
this area? 

Mr. Ltjeb. You are really working this thing around but it comes 
back to the same thing all the time. I told you I wasn't going to 
answer any questions regardless of how you word them about the 
Communist Party, regardless of the way it is worded. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Are you a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. LuEB. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party when 
in Los Angeles? 

Mr. LuEB. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds previous- 
ly stated. 

Mr. TA\nENNER. Have you been a member of the Communist Party 
at any time since you moved to San Diego ? 

Mr. T TTEB. I moved here in 10.52. "\^iiat is the question ? 

IMr. Tavenner, Have you been a member of the Communist Party 
in San Diego at any time since you moved here in 1052 ? 

Mr. LuEB. I refuse to answer any question pertaining to the Com- 
munist Party on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Jackson. Do you refuse to answer that question ? 

Mr. TyTTEB. I refuse to answer that one ; that is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

The Chairman. Any questions? 

The witness is excused. 

The Cttatrman. The committee will stand in recess for 10 minutes. 

C Brief recess.) 

The Chairman. Mrs. Schneider. 

TESTIMONY OP MES. ANITA BELL SCHNEIDER— Resumed 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Mrs. Schneider, you have previously identified in 
the course of your testimony Mr. T^o Lueb, I think, as a member of 
the Communist Partv. Isn't that correct ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Taat5nner. Will you tell tlie committee, please, whether or not 
he was a functionary of any character of the National Negro Labor 
Council ? 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2029 

Mrs. Schneider. Not to my knowledge. The National Negro Labor 
Council, no, he was one of tlie organizers assigned to the local Negro 
Labor Council in San Diego. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is the matter I am referring to. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he an organizer of the local group of the 
National Negro Labor Council in San Diego ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, if you know, 
how he became interested or at least if he became interested in tliat 
work. 

JNIrs. Schneider. Yes. I know something of the background of the 
beginning of the Negro Labor Council. It was originally organized 
in San Diego by a non-Communist Party member. This non-Com- 
munist Party member had been attending meetings in Los Angeles and 
had met the regional organizer of the Negro Labor Council there. 
She had persuaded him to start a chapter of the Negro Labor Council 
in San Diego. When he i-eturned to San Diego he sent out invita- 
tions to people to come to his home to organize the Negro Labor 
Council chapter. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that JMr. Lueb ? Of whom are you speaking when 
you speak of "he sent" ? 

Mrs. Schneider. A non-Communist Party member, 

Mr. Tavenner. A non-Connnunist Party member of the National 
Negro Labor Council. 

Mrs. Schneider. This noii-C^omnniuist Party member was active 
in the Inde])endent Progressive Party here in San Diego. He just 
accidentally met someone from the Negro Labor Council in Los 
Angeles and came back and started to organize a local Negro Labor 
Council chapter here. He sent out the invitations; 10 or 12 people 
attended the first meeting. I was one of the people who attended 
that meeting. I discussed this later with Verna Langer at my regu- 
lar Communist club meeting. I was informed at that time, we had 
had an election of officers already, I believe, when I attended my Com- 
munist club meeting. The non-Communist Party member had been 
elected chairman of the grou]) following regular Communist Part}'^ 
procedure of electing a non-Connnunist Party member alternate or 
somebody who was not known as a Conmiimist Party member as head 
of a group or as a front for it. Two other people elected to office in 
Negro Labor Council then were Lee and Beverly Major. Leo Lueb 
was given the job of organizer and offered to help in every way pos- 
sible. I discussed the situation with Verna Langer at our Comnuuiist 
club meeting. She said it had not been their original intention to 
start a Negro Labor Council chapter in San Diego, that after all it 
looked awfully silly with 9 white people and 3 Negro people present 
organizing a Negro Labor Council chapter, particularly since most 
of the white Communist Party members present were not union mem- 
bers and were not connected in any way with the labor situation. 

She said, however, it had been decided necessary since tlie chapter 
was being started to control the chapter, to control its activities, and 
for that reason we and Beverly Major had been elected officers and 
Leo Lueb had been appointed to the group to hel]3 organize it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it successful in its field of operation? 

65808—55 9 



2030 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF,, AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. No, it wasn't. With the halfhearted Communist 
Party support behind it, it failed very quickly. There were very fe^v 
non-Communist Negro people in San Diego and those of them that 
were non-Communist were not interested in this type of a group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you restate that please ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. In San Diego there were very few, I don't 
know how to ])ut it exactly — it was impossible to attract non-Com- 
munist Negro j)eople to this group, this type of group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give the committee any idea as to how 
long it continued as an organized group — that is, the local chapter 
of the National Negro Labor Council ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I don't remember exactly. I do remember it con- 
tinued until the national conference of the National Negro Labor 
Council and we sent two delegates. We sent the non-Communist 
Party member and Beverly Major as our delegates to the national 
convention in Chicago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Beverly Major a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am informed that convention was in December 
1953? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long was it after that convention that this local 
group in San Diego continued to function as an organized group ? 

Mrs. Schneider. At the moment I can't recall any meetings after 
that date, after the national convention. There were only a few meet- 
ings of the organization. We had quite a few dinners and money rais- 
ing affairs getting the money to send the delegates to Chicago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then this organization was unsuccessful in this 
area? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. In the earlier part of your testimony you referred 
to two students at the university with you, one of whom had been sent 
to an Oregon University. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you identify him in your testimony as a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I don't remember whether I did or not. He was. 
He was instrumental in recruiting me into the Communist Party in 
the beginning. His name is Ralph Friedman, F-r-i-e-d-m-a-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he has attended any other 
schools in addition to San Diego State College and Oregon Teachers 
College ? 

Mrs. Schneider. University of Oregon. I don't remember now 
whether he had. I know he had something like 8 years of schooling 
behind him, he told me at that time. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Did he engage in any Communist Party activities 
that you can recall in San Diego off the campus of the college? 

Mrs. Schneider. He attended many Communist-front meetings. 
At the time I was acquainted with him he was writing articles for one 
of the magazines. I don't know of any other Communist Party activ- 
ity nside from recruiting me that he did engage in. 

Mr. Tavenner. You told us in the beginning of your testimony that 
in addition to your Communist Party assignments in mass organiza- 



COMMXTNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2031 

tions or front organizations which you liave ah-eady described, that 
you were assigned to tlie Civil Rights Congress. Will you tell the 
committee, please, to what extent the Communist Party was interested 
in the Civil Eights Congress and what it did about it ^ Tell the com- 
mittee wdiat you know about it. 

Mrs. Schneider. I attended the Civil Rights Congress workshop in 
Los Angeles in November and December of 1954. During that time 
Frank Spector was one of the speakers. He told us about the history 
of the Civil Rights Congress, of the International Labor Defense, and 
of the Industrial Workers of the World group that had preceded it. 
He pointed out the errors in the Industrial Workers of the World 
committees. He pointed out the successes in the International Labor 
Defense. When someone in the audience asked him wliy the Inter- 
national Labor Defense had been dissolved he said there was political 
expediency, that it was no longer an effective organization and for that 
reason it was dissolved and reorganized, new officers elected and it be- 
came the Civil Rights Congress. 

Mr. Tavexner. It has been so cited by the Attorney General of 
the United States and by this committee as being the successor of the 
International Labor Defense, both being Communist-front organiza- 
tions. 

Will you tell the committee, please, how the Communist Party in 
San Diego functioned in relation to the Civil Rights Congress here ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Miriam Starcevic was the executive secretary of 
the Civil Rights Congress at the time I joined. A non-Communist 
Party member had been elected chairman of the committee following 
the familiar Communist Party platform of electing respectable non- 
Communist Party members as head of the organization wherever pos- 
sible. Miriam Starcevic received her directions from Los Angeles, 
most of the time from Marguerite Robinson, and part of the time from 
Emil Freed and part of the time from Dave Brown. 

Mr. Tavenner. All three of those persons have been identified as 
members of the Communist Partj^, have they not ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, they have. Miriam Starcevic had several 
small children and as it was difficult for her to travel to Los Angeles 
to receive her directions. Marguerite Robinson made periodic visits 
to the San Diego area where she called executive board meetings to 
give them their directions. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what way did the local Communist Party assist 
the Civil Rights Congress in its work ? 

Mrs. Schneider. The local Communist Party would discuss the 
officers of the Civil Rights Congress previous to their election, would 
decide wdio was to be elected to what job, they would decide when the 
elections would be held and where, they would decide who was to 
speak and what was to be done, every detail was decided by the Com- 
munist Party previous to the Civil Rights Congress meetings. 

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand in effect your testimony is that the 
Communist Party in San Diego during the time you were an FBI 
agent in it had sufficient numerical and other strength so that it deter- 
mined who should be the officers of the Civil Rights Congress in San 
Diego, and that the Communist Party dictated the program of the 
Civil Rights Congress in San Diego ; is that correct ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is exactly correct, Congressman Doyle. 



2032 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what projects 
the Communist Party succeeded in having the Civil Rights Congress 
accept or to engage in ^ 

Mrs. Schneider. When I first joined the Communist Party and the 
Civil nights Congress, Communist Party leaders were being tried 
under the Smith Act. At that time most operations in front organiza- 
tions were suspended completely for defense of the people being tried 
under the Smith Act. That was true in the Civil Rights Congress also. 
The San Diego Emergency Defense Committee Avas formed; people 
were sent to the Civil Rights Congress picket line in Los Angeles ; and 
money was being raised in everj^ possible way to defend the Com- 
munist leaders charged under the Smith Act. 

Mr. Tavenner. Incidentally, let me go back to the work of the In- 
dependent Progressive Party. Did it engage in any activity aimed at 
the defense of the Smith Act ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I can remember taking minutes of the county 
central committee meeting during that time when the San Diego 
emergency defense committee was discussed in detail and plans were 
made for it. The effort to defend people under the Smith Act was 
carried out in each of the front organizations in exactly the same way. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that the primary consideration or interest of 
the Communist Party at that time, to afford a defense and protection 
to its own members ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Therefore you find these various organizations tak- 
ing up the same fight. Were there any other causes tliat the Civil 
Rights Congress sponsored in wdiich its decision was aft'ected or in 
which its decision resulted from prior decisions made b}^ the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, there was activity luidertaken in the Rosen- 
berg case; there was activity undertaken in the Emory Collier case, 
and the Wesley Wells case. Those are the only groups I can recall 
at the moment. 

Mr. Tavf.xxer. Let's begin Avith the Wells case. To what extent 
did the Communist Party participate in a decision by the Civil Rights 
Congress to sponsor the Wells case ? 

IVIrs. Schneider. They determined completely the activities of the 
Civil Rights Congress in that case, particularly in our local Wells 
committee. At the very end I was appointed as the go-between be- 
tween the Comn^unist Party members and the non-Communist Party 
members and all of my directions, all of my activity, was done at the 
direction of the Communist Party, 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell the committee, please, all that you can now 
recall as to how the work of that organization was carried out. 

Mrs. Schneider. Do you mean in the Wesley Wells case? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, in the Wesley Wells case. 

Mrs. Schneider. The Wesley Wells case was discussed many times 
at Civil Rights Congress meetings, among them at the national execu- 
tive board meeting of tlie Civil Rights Congress in Chicago in 1952. 
It was explained to us there that the Wesley Wells case had been a 
Civil Rights Congress case for some years, the man had been in San 
Quentin. However, he had attacked a guard and had been sentenced 
to death. Since then I am not absolutely positive on my dates but 
we discussed the past history of the case. It was explained to us the 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2033 

Civil Riglits Congress liad undertaken the defense over a period of 
years. Ida Rothstein of the San Francisco Civil Rights Congress had 
been part icidarly active in the case. After that time I don't remember 
the dates on this; when AVeslev Wells had been sentenced to death for 
attacking the guard the Civif Rights Congress decided to change its 
methods of operation in the same way that the Communist Party had 
decided to change the methods of operation of each of the Communist- 
front groups. 

The Communist Party had decided that instead of working either 
as an open Communist Party or through the Communist-front groups 
it should work through the other mass organizations, it should work 
tlirough existing churches or political parties, other groups aside 
from 

Mr. Tavenner. The same as you have demonstrated the Connnunist 
Party did in San Diego from 1951 on to 1955 ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Exactly. In this case you see the Civil Rights 
Congress had fought as a front group in the defense of Wesley Wells 
up until the time he was sentenced to death. It was felt a change of 
operation then was advisable, that only by infiltrating church groups, 
other political groups, by activating other people, could the case be 
defended anv longer. They did so. A non-Communist Los Angeles 
minister who had absolutely no idea of the people who were prompting 
his activity was interested in the case. I think even Walter Winchell 
was activated, who certainly is a non -Communist. 

The change in the method of operation was successful and through 
operating in other groups the Communist Party and Civil Rights 
Congress accomplished its objective. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then after that time did another case occur, the 
Collier case ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Emory Collier. It occurred before that time, in 
December or January 1951 or 1952. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was the action in that case initiated ? Where 
did it begin ? 

Mrs. Schneider. An ex-Connnunist Party member was living in the 
frontier housing area and found out that this young Negro man had 
been charged with four charges of rape. He brought the case to the 
Civil Rights Congress meeting and suggested that the Civil Rights 
Congress take the case. It was discussed within the Civil Rights Con- 
gress and within the Communist Party. It was then referred to Los 
Angeles. 

Marguerite Robinson and I believe Emil Freed at that time decided 
that it was a very good Civil Rights Congress case. They came to San 
Diego and set up a committee, the Emory Collier defense committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that committee set up without anybody know- 
ing whether or not the accused was guilty or innocent — without know- 
ing anything about the facts in the case i 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the question of whether or not this individual 
was guilty come up in the conferences in the Communist Party or the 
Civil Rights Congress ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, it did. It was discussed many times. It got 
to be rather a problem. In the Communist Party it was decided that 
whether the man was guilty or innocent had absolutely nothing to do 
with it. It made an excellent case for propaganda for the Conmiunist 

05808 — 55 10 



2034 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Party and therefore it should be taken as a Civil Rights Congress case. 
The outcome of the case had nothing to do with undertaking defense. 
It was an excellent method of propagandizing non-Communist people. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say that this matter was presented to the Civil 
Rights Congress and the Communist Party. Can you throw any light 
on what part the Communist Party played, if any, in having the Civil 
nights Congress adopt this case or to take it up as an issue. 

Mrs. Schneider. It determined it completely. I went to Los An- 
geles with other members of the Comnmnist Party and with I believe, 
one non-Communist, to discuss tlie case with Marguerite Robinson in 
Los Angeles who was a Communist Party member. AVe discussed the 
case there and the guilt or innocence had nothing to do with their tak- 
ing the case. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of the work done by the Civil 
Rights Congress after it did adopt this case ? What did it do about it ? 

Mrs. Schneider. First the man who was charged with the crimes was 
approached but he refused to do anything. He had consulted the race 
relations organization and the National Association for the Advance- 
ment of Colored People. Both of them — thoy are non-Communist 
organizations — advised him very strongly against cooperating with 
the Civil Rights Congress. I know he was in one case warned that if he 
allowed the Civil Rights Congress to defend him their organization 
could not give him help; that they would give him help otherwise. 

At first Emory Collier said he didn't want the help of the Civil 
Rights Congress, but according to Marguerite Rabinson in Los Angeles, 
an Emory Collier defense committee was set up which was not quite as 
obviously a leftwing organization. Emory Collier was willing to ac- 
cept the help of that organization since Communist Party members 
were taking his wife out and collecting money to pay their attorney. 

Mr. Tavenner. But actually the new organization for the defense of 
Collier was established by the same group which had tried to represent 
him ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, with one exception. Following the familiar 
pattern again a non-Communist Party member was again elected chair- 
man of the committee. We met at her home. But the organizational 
work was carried on by exactly the same members who were active in 
the Civil Rights Congress before. We got all of our directions from 
the regional Civil Rights Congress in Los Angeles. The attorney who 
was corresponding secretary for the Emory Collier Defense Commit- 
gress panel of attorneys. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you occupy any position in the Civil R'.ghts 
Congress? 

Mrs. Schneider. I did in the Emory Collier D?fense Committee. I 
was corresponding secretary for the Emory Collier defense commit- 
tee. I was also delegated to make reports for the Emory Collier De- 
fense Committee to the Civil Rights Congress, directly to the Civil 
Rights Congress meetings. 

Mr. Tavenner. How was the money raised to finance these proj?cts? 

Mrs. Schneider. Much of the money was raised by going to Com- 
munist Party members or leftwingers and liberals in the community; 
explainino: the case to them ; taking them leaflets ; and asking them for 
money. Some of the money was raised by having dinners; and some 
of it was raised by a song contest. Some of it was raised by going to 
the Negro churches in the community. There the people attending the 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2035 

church were given leaflets explaining the case on their way into the 
church. On their way out the Communist Party members in the group 
would be standing outside with big labels and woven baskets to collect 
the money to pay the attorneys' fees for the case. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you any idea how much money was raised for 
this and similar pur]30ses by the Civil Rights Congress in San Diego? 

Mrs. ScHNEmER. I know it was many thousands of dollars. Our 
quota for the original San Diego emergency defense committee, if I am 
not mistaken, was $3 500. I remember at one time passing the $1,400 
mark, which was our quota. I am not absolutely positive that every 
rent was raised. 

The Chairman. Where was this case tried? 

Mrs. Schneider. The Emory Collier defense case was tried in San 
Diego. I don't remember which court, Superior court, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the connnittee, please, whether it was 
the practice to lemit all the funds raised and contributed to the cause 
for which it was intended ? 

Mrs. Schneider. In this case it was not. The committee raised a 
lot of money, the attorneys' fees were not paid, I was told afterwards, 
the bail bondsman was not paid although the money was voted for 
that cause. 

Mr. Tavenner. When this money was raised by members of the 
Communist Party and by people who contributed at the solicitation 
of members of the Communist Party, what disposition was mado 
of it? 

Mrs. Schneider. No explanation was given to the Civil Rights 
Congress concerning it. However, in one case we had several dinners, 
we had a series of dinners for the emergency defense committee. 
Part of the money was to be retained in San Diego for the Civil 
Rights Congress ; part of it was to be sent to Los Angeles. However, 
I can remember having a rejDort made with about $16 left in tho 
treasury and no expenses having been paid out of the Civil Rights 
Congress during that time. The money was not in the treasury of 
the Civil Rights Congress. 

Mr. Tavenner. What I am trying to get at is this : whether or not 
the money was solicited by the Connnunist Party or the Civil Rights 
Congress for that matter for a special cause; whether there was any 
plan in existence by which a part of the funds were to be retained 
either for use of the Communist Party or for use of the Civil Rights 
Congress as the case may be. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, part of the money was to be retained for the 
use of the Civil Rights Congress theoretically but the money did not 
remain in the treasury. 

Mr. Tavenker. Now in regard to the Communist Party, do you 
recall funds being raised for special purposes like the Smith Act; 
that is, for the defense of the Smith Act defendants ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I can remember a series of socials being 
given, primarily socials during tliat time, in defense of the leaders of 
the Communist Party. I don't remember the exact amounts raised 
now. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether it w^as the plan of the Com- 
munist Party to send all the proceeds to the cause for which they were 
donated or whether in those ijistances a part or percentage was sup- 
posed to be ke}>t for general Communist Party purposes. 



2036 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. We were told that a percentage was to be kept. 
I was not told the amount of the percentage. 

Mr. Tavenner. So if a person who was not a member of the Com- 
munist Party was solicited by the Connnnnist Party to make a contri- 
bution to a cause that he was very much interested in or believed m, 
all of his donation wouldn't go to that cause ; part of it would go to the 
Communist Party, to which he may be very much opposed ? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is true. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that a correct analysis of it? 

Mrs. Schneider. That is exactly correct. I can give you an example 
of that. That occurred in the San Diego Peace Forum. It sounds 
very unimportant and it probably is but it is an example of the methods 
of operation. Toward the end of our peace-forum meetings we would 
vote on sending a telegram, for example, to the President or a telegram 
to Senator McCarthy or something and we would pass the hat to 
collect enough nickels and dimes and pennies to pay for the telegram. 
As I was chairman, the money was often turned over to me to send 
the telegram. Mr. Leo Lueb, as a matter of fact, was the Communist 
Party member that discussed that with me after one of the meetings. 
He criticized me very much. He said it wasn't correct Communist 
Party method of operation. He said it was up to the heads, it was up 
to the Communist Party organizer within the organization to decicle 
how the money collected would be spent. In this case although it 
was about $1.87, an air mail letter would accomplish exactly the same 
thing and the money that was saved was to be used for the purpose 
that I would want to put it to, not the purpose that it was given to the 
peace forum for. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you mean put it to the Communist Party pur- 
poses that you wanted to put it ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. I can give you another example of that if 
you want. This is a case that came m> before this committee a year 
ago last April when Laura Colwell Smith testified. She said that 
one of her acquaintances had died and left a large sum of money to 
her. He had said exactly what the money was to be spent for and she 
said she did exactly what he told her to do with the money. There 
was over $10,000, I know. She said she even took his pocket watch 
to the Russian Embassy in San Francisco, according to his instructions, 
because he wanted the watch to be returned to the Soviet Union. 
He wanted it to be kept in the Soviet Union. The Communist Party 
criticized Laura Smith very much for this. It was incorrect proce- 
dure. After the money had been willed to her she should have turned 
over the money to the Communist Party. Since she had not, she was 
guilty of stealing from the Communist Party and she was expelled 
from the Communist Partj^ for that reason. She said she then went 
up to Los Angeles and sat in the Communist Party office for hours all 
one day asking for a hearing, but they refused to give her a hearing. 
She told me about it. She was applying for readmittance into the 
Communist Party last November. It shows how flexible the Com- 
munist Party ideas of ethics are. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, that is very interesting. Mr. Doyle 
was a member of the subcommittee that was here in April 1954 and 
may recall this incident. We subpenaed this person befoi-e the com- 
mittee. We had introduced in evidence the will of the individual in 
question. We had also introduced in evidence the court settlements 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2037 

made in the settlement of the estate involved. The will provided for 
the payment of the income from an estate of around $28,000 to a 
daughter of the testator during her lifetime and after her deatli this 
money was to be distributed equally among three persons, AVilliam 
Schneiderman, Dr. V. A. K. Tashjian, who had been the subject of a 
great deal of testimony before this committee in Los Angeles, and 
Emily Hillkowitz. Seeing that the money was payable to Schneider- 
man and Tashjian or at least two-thirds of it, we were interested in 
knowing whether or not it was for the benefit of the Communist 
Party. There was a codicil to the will, however, which changed the 
beneiiciaries and made the money payable to Laura Colwell Smith, 
the person to whom the witness has now referred and to Elizabeth 
Rowe. 

Mr. Doyle. I remember that evidence and testimony very clearly, 
Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. We produced evidence here that Laura Colwell 
Smith received in the settlement on one occasion $5,000 and $8,000 on 
another occasion besides the tangible personal property. She refused 
to testify as to what had become of the money except to say the same 
thing was done with the money as was done with the money that the 
others were to receive under this will. Now we learn from this witness 
that she admitted to her, that is, Laura Colwell Smith, that she paid 
this money over to the Russian Embassy. 

Mrs. Schneider. No; that is not correct. She didn't say exactly 
what was done about the money. She did say that she had gone to the 
Russian Embassy in San Francisco and had turned over the watch, 

Mr. Tavenner. Only the watch? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Didn't she say anything about the money? 

Mrs. Schneider. No, she didn't. She said, however, that she had 
done exactl}^ what he directed her to do with it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then she was expelled from the Communist Party 
because she didn't turn this money over to the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes; they said she had stolen it from the Com- 
munist Party because she had not turned it over to them. 

Mr. Tavenner. We were discussing the method used by the Com- 
munist Party in the handling of funds solicited and collected by solici- 
tations. Can you at this time recall any instances where a part of funds 
collected was retained for general Communist Party purposes in San 
Diego while the rest of it was sent on to the purpose for which it was 
contributed? Is there any other instance that comes to your mind? 

Mrs. Schneider. Not right at this moment. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of the Rosenberg defense. Were funds 
collected in this area for that purpose? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes: they were both before the execution of the 
Rosenbergs and afterward for the support of tneir children. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall if the Communist Party was also con- 
nected in any way with the Sobell defense? 

Mrs. Schneider. I don't know whether there was a connection or 
not. Money was collected for the Sobell defense. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. Was that done by the Communist Party or the Civil 
Rights Congress or by whom? 

Mrs. Schneider. I do know a meeting was at my house but it got 
a little bit involved as many of the Communist- front activities did. 
Originally it started out to be an Independent Progressive Party social 



2038 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

at my house for money-raising purposes. However, someone tele- 
phoned from Los Angeles — 1 don't know who — explaining that the 
national secretary for the Sobell defense was available and would like 
to speak in San Diego on the same date as our money-raising social 
and asked to speak at that meeting. Norma Aronson, I believe her 
name was. She came to the meeting with the representative from 
the Los Angeles Sobell Defense Committee and spoke. The money 
from that meeting was turned over to them. 

The ChairMx\n. Who was that Los Angeles representative? 

Mrs. Schneider. I have it on file but I don't have the name with me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether all of the money raised for 
that purpose was turned over to that individual or part of it retained? 

Mrs. Schneider. The expenses of the meeting were taken out. I 
don't know what happened to the rest. 

The Chairman. It has come to this committee's attention that the 
same people are using the same Rosenberg cause to collect money and 
are still collecting money. 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, they were when I left San Diego in January. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have told the committee about your attendance 
at a national conference of the Independent Progressive Party in Chi- 
cago in 1952. Did you, in connection with that trip, attend any other 
meetings? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I attended the national executive board meet- 
ing of the Civil Rights Congress in Chicago which was held imme- 
diately after the Independent Progressive Party convention there. 

Mr. Tav'enner. As far as you know did anything occur at that 
convention that would be of interest to this committee ? 

Mrs. Schneider. It was an extremely eventful conference and many 
decisions were made on a national basis which governed the entire 
activities of the Civil Rights Congress. 

Mr. Tavenner. I was referring particularly to your own activity. 
I didn't make that plain, I know, but did you receive any advice or 
instruction that related to you ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Yes, I did. One of the national directors of the 
Civil Rights Congress, Aubrey Grossman, was present. Marguerite 
Robinson was also present. Marguerite Robinson was urging me to 
become a full-time Communist Party organizer working in the Civil 
Rights Congress. She was discussing that with x\ubrey Grossman in 
my presence. Aubrey Grossman said that her suggestion was very 
incorrect. He said that since it had been decided by the local group 
that I should be chairman of the San Diego Peace Forum it was in- 
correct for her politically to ask for a transfer for me to the Civil 
Rights Congress. He said it was just like robbing your own till. You 
were taking money out of your own pocket. That was a local decision 
after all. Marguerite Robinson told him he might be able to tell 
her what to do; give her orders to do as far as strategy went. He 
might be able to tell her on that basis what to do but in her own 
region it was up to her to make those decisions and he couldn't con- 
trol that for her. 

After we returned to San Diego it was discussed by the local Com- 
munist Party whether I should transfer to the Civil Rights Congress 
or not. It was decided that I should not be transferred. Marguerite 
Robinson was told her directions operated as far as telling her what to 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 2039 

do and the method of carrying them out remained in the local Com- 
munist Party. If it had been decided locally I was chairman of the 
Peace Forum, that was it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Between the period of 1951 and 1955 when you 
were active in the Communist Party in San Diego, was any effort made 
by the Communist Party to support patriotic measures and movements 
in this area, sucli as Red Cross drives ? There have been campaigns 
for many other things. Do you recall whether or not there were cam- 
paigns of that character concluctecl ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Exactly the reverse. I can remember at one time 
Dorothy Kykyri was very ill. She needed several blood transfusions. 
The other party members Avere urged to go down and contribute their 
blood to be given to Dorothy Kykyri. I don't know, there is a method 
of balancing, you give so many pints and she gets half of it, I think. 
I went down but I had given blood too recently and they wouldn't take 
it. I explained that at my Communist Party meeting, a meeting with 
Verna Danger. Verna Danger asked me what I had been doing, giv- 
ing blood to the Red Cross at that time? She said after all it would 
be given to a soldier in South Korea and I had to remember after all 
which side I was on. 

Mr. Doyle. Did she refer to a soldier of the United States or of the 
United Nations troops that happened to be in South Korea ? 

Mrs. Schneider. She was referring strictly to the United States 
soldier. Another item I can remember, after the end of the Korean 
war the Peace Crusade was at a loss. In order to keep the Peace Cru- 
sade in operation it needed a new issue to work on, a new national 
issue. It was suggested to oppose John Foster Dulles ; get out a black- 
ening campaign against John Foster Dulles. I came up with one sug- 
gestion that was vetoed promptly. I thought if we put on a major 
clothing drive all over the United States for clothing for the North 
and South Korean children, particularly that it may be a very good 
thing for the peace movement, it would be possible to explain to the 
people involved how bad war was for the people in general. I sug- 
gested that at a Peace Forum workshop meeting to Peter Hyun and 
also to Rernadette Doyle, whom I had gone to see with Verna Danger, 
the head of the Communist Party in this area. 

Bernadette Doyle said no, that it wasn't politically correct. If we 
gave clothing to the South Korean children as well as to North Korean 
children it would cut down on the expenses of the United States (xov- 
ernment. If the United States Government had to furnish clothing 
to these children it would cut down on the amount of money that it 
would have to spend for defense and for other projects. 

Therefore, it was advisable that no clothing be sent to the South 
Korean children or to the North Korean children because it would cost 
the United States Government money to furnish it otherwise. Every 
child in Korea could freeze if it was going; to cost the United States 

/"( tote 

Government money. 

Mr. Tavenner. Throughout your period of membership in the Com- 
munist Party in San Diego — and that was during the period of time 
in which there have been many conflicts between the foreign policy 
of the United States and that of the Soviet Union — have you observed 
any inclination on the part of the Communist Party to side with the 
United States on those issues where they were in conflict with the 
interests of the Soviet Union ? 



2040 COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AREA 

Mrs. Schneider. I had difficulty when I first went into the Com- 
munist Party because I had no background in Marxist theory. When 
issues would come up I didn't know how a Communist Party member 
should react. Eacli time all I had to do was decide which was to the 
advantage of the Soviet Union and the disadvantage of the United 
States and conduct myself accordingly. I was never in error. I re- 
member in particular the issue of universal military training came 
up. We hadn't been given any instructions on that ]3articular point. 
It would be to the disadvantage of the Soviet Union for us to have 
universal military training, it would be to the military advantage of 
this country. Therefore the Peace Forum opposed universal military 
training. It was perfectly correct when we received our instructions 
from the Communist Party. 

INIr. Doyle. INIr. Chairman, may I ask this question : Didn't you ever 
liear any Communist Party functionary in San Diego either who lived 
in San Diego or came to San Diego from Los Angeles or elsewhere, did 
you ever hear any of these top Communist functionaries speak out in 
Communist meetings in favor of the foreign policy of the United 
States? 

I ask it from you as an experienced Communist to bring out the 
point that I am interested in. Did j^ou ever hear of that ? 

Mrs. Schneider. Very much to the contrary. People in this coun- 
try aren't quite correct. Everybody here in the United States I think 
has the idea tliat if you really ask a Communist Party member, if you 
gave him the chance of returning to the Soviet Union he would prefer 
staying in this country. That isn't correct. Based on their ideologi- 
cal background, the people that I knew in the Communist Party had 
a very dee]) personal affection for the Soviet Union. When Stalin 
died they mourned. President Eisenhower could die and they 
wouldn't give a darn. 

The Chairman, Do I understand by that you mean that there are 
people in our society who would like to go to Russia ? 

Mrs. Schneider. I don't know any Communist Party members, if 
they were given the opportunity and if the Soviet Union would accept 
them, who wouldn't go. 

The Chairman. Who would not go ? 

Mrs. Schneider. They would go. They have a real personal feel- 
ing about it. If a war would break out they wouldn't change their 
minds. They are on the other side. 

Mr. DoTLE. That would be a good solution. 

The Chairman. I was wondering whether it wouldn't be a smart 
move for us to introduce legislation providing money for them to go. 
[Applause.] 

]Mrs. Schneider. They would have an excuse. 

The Chairman. They wouldn't go. 

Mrs. Schneider. The Soviet Union, they would say, wouldn't take 
them. 

The Chairman. That is probably true because the Soviet Union 
would be afraid that the dissatisfaction of these people would be great 
and they would immediately start telling the people over there of the 
advantages of the terrible capitalist system in the United States, 
thereby committing a crime against the state. Actually, I am very 
much in favor of the interchange of people, I am largely responsible 



COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE SAN DIEGO, CALIF., AUEA 2041 

for permitting various delegations to come in. The only fear that 
our people have is there might be some untoward demonstration or 
somebody might be injured and create an incident. We are very 
proud of what those delegations see here. Maybe the smart thing for 
us to do is to let them all come, anybody that wants to, at our expense. 

Mr. Tavenner, do you have anything further ? 

Mr, Tavenner. I think, Mr. Chairman, that about covers the ques- 
tions that I had proposed to ask. If it were not so late I would go 
further. But I believe this is essentially all I desire to ask. 

The Chairman. I wish to take this opportunity to say to the witness 
that it is impossible to evaluate the service that you have rendered your 
country in this cold war. I know all kinds of Communists and I am 
sure that you do. Unfortunately, there are many people in America 
who do not and it is only because brave, patriotic people such as your- 
self who made the sacrifice that you made over a long period of time 
that more people have become aware of what this conspiracy is and 
what it means to America and, as I said before, your contribution in 
this cold war in which we are now engaged, is considerable. 

You are entitled to the thanks not only of this subcommittee, which 
is performing a distasteful task — one that none of us sought — there 
isn't a man on this committee or this subcommittee who sought mem- 
bership on it. You are entitled to our thanks and the thanks of the 
Congress of the United States and of all of the American people, even 
those people who disagree with you, because some day they will have 
the courage that Winston Burdett had, the radio commentator, and 
they will see the error of their ways and perhaps be willing to make 
the same kind of a contribution you have made. 

I want to also thank Sheriff Strand, and Deputy Sheriff Newsom, 
for their splendid cooperation and the Chamber of Commerce for its 
assistance, and to all of the people who have made it possible for us in 
the way that the Congress had devised to bring to the people of this 
community some understanding of a phase of this problem. 

With that the meeting is adjourned. 

(Whereupon, at 4: 40 p. m., the committee recessed subject to call.) 



INDEX 



Individuals 

Page 

Alexander, Horace 1913, 19S2 

Arnold, Yaida (Mrs.) 1999 

Aronson, Norma 2038 

Hayne, Carol 1926 

Beilew, Minna K 1952, 19r)3 

Berman, Jack 1913, 1999 

Blberman, Herbert 19C0, 1978-1981 

Brown, Dave 2031 

Callendar, Carl 1983 

Carpadakis, John 2004 

Cernev, Isobel 1913, 1951, 1957 

Collier, Emory 2032-2034 

Dodd, Bella V 1989 

Doyle, Bernadette 1913, 2039 

Dn Bois, W. E. B 1919, 2001 

Dugdale, Bert Q 1961, 1962, 1971-1974 (testimony), 1983, 2004 

Dusdale, Helen (Mrs. Bert Q. Dugdale) 1914, 1915, 1961, 1962, 1983 

Edwards, Carmen 1910, 1984, 2004 

Elston, Laura Stevenson 1982 

Fast, Howard 1949 

Forrey, Eddie 1977 

Freed, Emil 2031, 2033 

Freedman, Robert 1948 

Friedman, Ralph 2030 

Fritchnian, Stephen H 1923 

Fonts, Alberta 1983 

Cxarlin, Sender 1913, 1917 

Gibson, Howard 1917, 1983 

Gibson, Lolita (Mrs. Howard Gibson) 1910, 

1911, 1914, 1915, 1917, 1918, 1922, 1926, 1982, 1983, 2002, 2004, 2005 

Graham, Shirley (Mrs. W. E. B. Du Bois) 1919 

Green, Abner I960 

Grossman, Aubrey 1913, 2038 

Gue, Stanlev M_l 1938-1947 (testimony) 

Haaen, O. B 1983 

Haniill, Frank 2007, 2009 

Hamlin, Llovd 1950, 1984 

Hardvman, Hugh 1928, 1937, 1954, 195.5, 1957 

Heist" A. A 2009.2017 

Flicks, Harrv 1922 

Hicks. Mrs. Harry 1922 

Hillkowitz, Emilv 20.37 

Hinchliffe, Jo Ann 2000 

Hyun, Alice 1919 

Hvun, Peter 1917, 1918, 1920, 1923, 1928-1930, 1952, 1954, 1978, 2021, 2039 

Jacques, Charles 1983, 2004 

Jacques, Elsie 1983, 2000, 20O2 

Jenkvns. Mignon 1983,2000,2006,2022-2025 (testimony) 

Joy, Ned 1943 

Kahn, Albert I960 

Kenny, Ann 1985 

Kerner, William 1918 

Kingsbury, John 1913, 1916, 1930, 1936, 195-5-1957, 1962 

Kingsbury, Mrs. John 1962 



ii INDEX 

Page 
Kirby, I'.ei-imrd 1943 

Kiisiiierczvk, INliriam 2000 

Kvkvri, Dorothy (Mrs. John Kykyri) 1914,1937,1976,1098,2000,2010,2039 

Kvkyri, John_ 1914, 1937, 1961, 1967, 1968-1971 ( testimony ), 1998, 2000, 2004, 2009 

Langilon, June 1977, 2008 

Langer, Joseph 1983 

Langer, Verua 1911, 

1914, 1915, 1922, 1925-1928, 1936, 1948, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1970, 1977, 
1981-1938, 1991, 1995, 2000, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2027, 2029, 2039 

Leonard, Alvin R 1943 

Lessner, Milton 2004, 2007 

Lueb, Bess 1983 

Lueb, Leo C 1955, 1983, 2004, 2025-2028 (testimony), 2029, 2036 

Masil, A. B 1913 

Major, Beverly 2029, 2030 

Major, Lee 2008, 2027, 2029 

Margolis, Ben 1965-1974, 2010, 2018, 2022, 2025 

Marion, George 1928 

Miner, Laura (or Minor) 1922, 1924, 1925 

Moos, Elizabeth 1930, 1949, 1950, 1956 

Morford, Ptichard 1936 

Mueha, Reva 1930, 1936, 1937, 1978 

Newsom, Robert S 1909. 1910 

Orel, Ben 1913 

Patterson, William 1918 

Pritt, D. N 1949 

Remington, William Walter 1949 

Roberts, Holland 1962, 1964 

Robinson, Marguerite 2031, 2033, 2034, 2038 

Rosen, Obed (Whitey) 1926,2007-2009 

Rothstein, Ida 2033 

Rowe, Elizabeth 2037 

Rubens, Bill 1983 

Russell, Maud 1913, 1923, 1924 

Rykoff, Richard 1915, 1979 

St. John, Clinton 2010 

Samson, Peter 1922-1924, 1928, 1915 

Schneider, Anita Bell (Mrs. Virgil A. Schneider; alias Seeta) 1908-1938 

(testimony), 1947-1964 (testimony), 1975-1984 (testimony), 1997- 
2006 (testimony), 2006-2018 (testimony), 2021, 2028-2041 (testi- 
mony). 

Schneiderman, William 1914, 2037 

Shermis, Celia (Mrs. Harry Shermis) 1914, 1915, 1922, 1926, 1927, 1948, 

1961, 1964, 1965-1968 (testimony) , 1977, 1984, 1996, 2000, 2006 

Shermis Harry 1984 

Siskind, Edith (Mrs. Henry Siskind) 1978 

Siskind, Henry 1978 

Sleeth, Paul 1976, 1984, 2008 

Smith, Laura Colwell 1984, 2036, 2037 

Spector, Frank 1913, 2031 

Starcevic, David (Dave) 1983, 1984, 2007, 2008, 2018 

Starcevie, Miriam 1914, 1915, 1983, 1984, 2004, 2031 

Steinberg, Beatrice (Mrs. Henry Steinberg) 1917, 1918 

Steinberg, Henry 1918 

Steinmetz Harry_ 1922, 1941-1943, 1955, 1976, 1984-1997 (testimony), 2007, 2010 

Stevens, Arthur 1910, 1911 

1917, 1955, 1957, 1977, 1984, 1997-2000, 2018-2022 (testimony) 

Tashjian, V. A. K 2037 

Usquaino, Phil 1984 

Vidal, Theresa 1984, 1998, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2010 

Wallace, Jim 1977 

Ward, Harry F 1942, 1943 

Wells, Wesley 2032, 2033 



INDEX iii 

Organizations 

Page 

American Civil Liberties Union 2'Mn) 

American Committee for Protection of tlie Foreign Born 19(50 

American Peace Criisacle__ 1912, 1917, 1918, 1920, 1923, 1929, 1930, 1947, 1948, 1951 

Northern California 1918 

Southern California 1912, 1917, 

1918, 1920, 1925, 1928, 1947, 1948, 1950, 1952, 1953, 1955. 1957, 2021 
San Dieffo Peace Forum 1911, 

1912, 1915, 1917, 1918, 1920-1923, 1928, 1929, 1936, 1937, 1943-1952, 

1958, 1966, 1974, 1977, 1991, 1994, 1997, 2021, 2025, 2036. 2038, 2040 

American-Russian Institute '(Los Angeles) 1930, 1936, 1960', 1978 

Bill of Rights Defense Committee 1913 

CJalifornia Labor School 1952, 1962, 1964 

Civil Rights Congress 1909-1913, 

1917, 1950, 1962, 1966, 1974, 1976, 2012, 2016, 2031-2035, 2037, 2038 

Committee for a Far Eastern Policy 1924 

Committee To Defend the Bill of Rights : San Diego 2006-2009 

Commuuitv Unitarian Fellowship 1928, 

1930, 1938, 1939, 1943-1945, 2006, 2007, 2018-2020 

Emory Collier Defense Committee 1913,2034 

Hillcrest Community Unitarian Fellowsliip. (Sec Community Unitarian 

Fellowship.) 
Independent Progressive Pai-ty , 1911-1913, 

1917, 1950, 1952, 1962, 1966, 1967, 1973, 1982, 1983, 1997-1999, 2001, 

2002, 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2018, 2023-2025, 2028, 2029, 2032, 2037, 

2038. 

Industrial Workers of the World 2031 

International Labor Defense 2031 

International Publishers 1949 

Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee 1993 

Little Theater Film Club 1937, 1977 

Los Angeles Sobell Defense Committee. (See National Committee To Se- 
cure Justice for iMorton Sobell in the Rosenberg Case.) 

Methodist Federation for Social Service 1942 

National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 2034 

National Committee To Secure Justice for Morton Sobell in the Rosenberg 

Case : Los Anseles Sobell Defense Committee 2038 

National Council of American-Soviet Friendship 1936,1937,1950,1954 

National Negro Labor Council 2026-2030 

Ncio Wo7-ld Review ' 1954 

New York Peace Council 1948 

Northern California Peace Crusade. (See American Peace Crusade.) 

Paul Sleeth Defense Committee 1913 

Peace Film Center 1978 

Peace Notes 1947 

Peace Reporter 1947, 1948 

Political Affairs 1959 

Progressive Book Store (Los Angeles) 1958,1959 

San Diego Emergency Defense Committee 2032 

San Diego Peace Forum. (See American Peace Crusade.) 

Southern California Peace Crusade. {See American Peace Crusade.) 

Teachers, American Federation of 1985, 1989 

Unitarian Fellowship for Social Justice 1946, 1947, 1950 

Western Cinema Guild 1977, 1978 

O 



3 9999 05706 3222 



3