HARVARD COLLEGE
LIBRARY
GIFT OF THE
GOVERNMENT
OF THE UNITED STATES
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN
THE UNITED STATES— PART 2
(Foreign Propaganda — Entry and Dissem'inalion in Philadelphia, Pa., Area)
HEARING
BEFORE THH
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-FOUETH CONGEESS
SECOND SESSION
JULY 17, 195G
Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities
(Including Index)
HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARY
DEPOSITED BY THE
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
OCT 20. 1956
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON : 1956
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Repkeseittatives
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois
CLYDE DOYLE, California BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York
JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee DONALD L. JACKSON, California
EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio
Richard Arens, Director
II
CONTENTS
July 17, 1956 : Testimony of— PaB«
Irving Fishman 5422
Sergei Buteneff 5437
Werner Marx 5442
Afternoon session :
Walter Lowenfels 5454
Lewis C. Arnold 5455
Index i
in
Public Law 601, T9th Congress
The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress (1946), chapter
753, 2d session, which provides :
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of America in Congress assembled, * * •
PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Rule X
SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES
17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members.
Rule XI
POWEKS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
!.« • * * • * «
(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities.
(A) Un-American Activities.
(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit-
tee, is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent,
character, and objects of un-American propoganda activities in the United States,
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and
(iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any neces-
sary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such, witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.
RULES ADOPTED BY THE 84TH CONGRESS
House Resolution 5, January 5, 1955
Rule X
STANDING COMMITTEES
1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress ;
• •**** *
(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members.
Rule XI
POWEBS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
17. Committee on Un-American Activities.
(a) Un-American Activities.
(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is authorized to make, from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char-
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop-
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu-
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in
any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance of
such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and to
take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under the
signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN
THE UNITED STATES— PART 2
(Foreign Propaganda — Entry and Dissemination in
Philadelphia, Pa., Area)
TUESDAY, JULY 17, 1956
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Philadelphia^ Pa.
public hearing
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to notice, at 10 a. m., in district courtroom No. 5, United
States Courthouse, Hon. Francis E. Walter, chairman, presiding.
Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter,
of Pennsjdvania, Harold H. Velde, of Illinois, and Gordon H. Scherer,
of Ohio.
Staff members present : Richard Arens, director; W. Jackson Jones,
K. Baarslag, Richard S. Weil, and Mrs. Dolores Scotti.
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
This morning the Committee on Un-American Activities begins its
hearings on a subject directly related to the operation of the Com-
munist conspiracy in the United States, and in the Philadelphia area
in particular.
We shall turn our attention to the vast quantity of Communist
propaganda coming into this area from behind the Iron Curtain.
The purpose of this material is to create unrest and division, and to
further the subversive objectives of the Communist apparatus. More
specifically it seeks to reembrace those persons who, because of fear
and terror, succeeded in escaping from their native countries behind
the Iron Curtain, and to bend them once more to the will of the
Kremlin.
The committee has previously heard testimony about this flood of
illicit material. We have learned that during the past year more than
5 million packages of propaganda leaflets have arrived in America.
Some of these have been addressed to known members of the Com-
munist apparatus for distribution among others already in the serv-
ice of the Soviet Union whom the Soviet Union seeks to convert.
A great proportion of this material, however, has been addressed,
unsolicited, to Iron Curtain refugees who are greatly alarmed by the
realization that even in the United States their identities and their
whereabouts have become known to the governments of the very police
states from which they fled.
5421
5422 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
The committee during its hearings here hopes to ascertain how much
of this material is coming into the Pennsylvania area and who is
receiving it, so that it may recommend legislation to end this abuse
of our mails.
It is indeed ironic that the operations of the Communist con-
spiracy require the presence of the Committee on Un-American
Activities in this historic city. But perhaps it serves as an illustra-
tion of the fact that not even great historic traditions such as this
city possesses brings exemption from the objectives of Communist
tyranny. Freedom is a hard-won thing. Its preservation is even
harder. It is the hope of this committee that through hearings
such as these it may help to make freedom more secure for the people
of this city and for the rest of the Nation as well.
Call your first witness, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Irving Fishman.
Kindly remain standing while the chairman administers the oath
to you.
The Chairman. Mr. Fishman, do you swear that the testimony you
are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Fishman. I do.
TESTIMONY OF IRVING FISHMAN
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself, sir, by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Fishman. My name is Irving Fishman. I live in the city of
New York. I am deputy collector of customs at the port of New York.
I also have under my supervision the operation of control units
throughout the United States whose concern it is to examine and
identify much of the political propaganda which enters the United
States from the Soviet bloc countries.
Mr. Arens. How many ports of entry are there in the United
States through which Communist propaganda enters this country ?
Mr. Fishman. Some 48 various ports of entr3^
Mr. Arens. How many control units are being operated by the
Bureau of Customs ?
Mr. Fishman. Only three. We have divided the country into three
sections, so to speak. With the cooperation of the Post Office De-
partment we arrange to have mail from the Communist bloc coun-
tries intended for the eastern part of the United States directed to
the port of New York, where we have a control unit. Mail which
enters the west coast is handled at our San Francisco office. Much
of the mail destined for the Illinois and Wisconsin areas is handled
out of the Chicago office.
Mr. Arens, Mr. Fishman, in summary form tell the committee for
this record the applicable statutes of the United States which govern
the screening procedures of your agency in undertaking to cope with
the foreign Communist political propaganda.
Mr. Fishman. Actually we recognized a niunber of years ago when
the flow of this political propaganda. Communist propaganda, com-
menced to assume some real shape, that there was no Federal leg-
islation, no statutes which directly prohibited the importation of
this type of material. So after a study of the entire problem with
I
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5423
the Post Office and Justice Departments, we found that it was pos-
sible to ban most of this material or a good part of this material by
using the Foreign Agents Registration Act.
Mr. Arens. Give us the essence of the provisions of the Foreign
Agents Registration Act, if you please, sir.
Mr. FiSHMAN. Generalh' speaking, the Foreign Agents Registra-
tion Act is a disclosure type statute. It contemplates that citizens
of the United States who desire to read foreign political propaganda
be made aware of the source of the material. The Foreign Agents
Registration Act, therefore, in some substance — and I am not an ex-
pert on the act itself — provides that a person in the United States who
disseminates foreign political propaganda be registered with the De-
partment of Justice, that it keep the Department of Justice posted
on its activity, and the volume of business it does in the United States.
It also provides something which is more pertinent to this problem
we have, that much of this political propaganda be labeled correctly
so that people who read it and who have no way of knowing its source
may have an opportunity to evaluate it. Some of this material is so
carefully worded and prepared that it is pretty clifficult on reading it
to understand or to know whether it was printed in the United States,
whether it is factual, whether it has the blessing of some Government
agency here, for example. It is clear that the law contemplated that
the material be labeled. As we understand the law, it does not pro-
hibit an individual from reading a pamphlet or a booklet or any peri-
odical which emanates from the Soviet bloc countries provided this
individual has an opportunity to evaluate properly by knowing its
source. That generally was the problem we faced, and we found that
if this material itself on arrival here was not destined to a registered
agent or it was not apparent that it had been solicited, that we could
hold it up. Under an opinion of the Attorney General some years ago
the Post Office Department declared much of this material nonmail-
able, and we in the customs service, if this material arrived by means
other than the mails, found that we could consider it subject to seizure
as an importation contrary to law.
That pretty much is the basis under which we operate.
Mr. Akens. Mr. Fishman, under the Foreign Agents Registration
Act, is there any limitation on the quantity of Communist propaganda
from abroad which may be shipped into the United States provided it
is destined to a registered agent of a foreign power ?
Mr. Fishman. There is no limit. They can bring in tons of it.
There is only one requirement, and that is that when this registered
agent in turn disseminates the information, that he label it so that
recipients be made aware of its source.
Mr. Arexs. That is the same theory, is it not, Mr. Fishman, which
permeates the philosophy of our food-and-drug laws, so that a person,
if he reaches in the medicine cabinet will at least be on notice that he
has his hand on a bottle of poison ? Isn't that true ?
Mr. Fishman. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, how long have you been in the customs
service ?
Mr. Fishman. Some 29 years.
Mr. Arens. You are thoroughly acquainted, I take it, with the
personnel in the customs service who deal with this problem?
82728— 5&—pt. 2 2
5424 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right.
Mr. Aeens. In the course of your long years of service in the cus-
toms service and on the basis of your acquaintanceship with other
people dealing with this problem in the customs service, have you
or has any individual, to your knowledge, in the Bureau of the Cus-
toms, ever seen a single piece of foreign Communist propaganda
labeled as such pursuant to the requirements of the Foreign Agents
Registration Act ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. I personally have never seen any except for the
samples issued by the Department of Justice which serve as an ex-
ample of how it should be labeled, but personally I have never seen
any anywhere in commercial channels which was labeled.
Mr. Akens. Is it also a fact that under the provisions of the Foreign
Agents Registration Act a person in diplomatic status or a person
with the right of diplomatic pouch is not required to make any ac-
counting of the propaganda material which comes into the country ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. That is correct. They are exempt pretty much from
all of these requirements.
Mr. Arens. Is it also true, that under the Foreign Agents Registra-
tion Act, an individual within the United States who is a willing re-
cipient of the foreign Communist political propaganda can receive
such without any limitation whatsoever?
Mr. FiSHMAN. Not without any limitation. The only restriction
that we might
Mr. Arens (interrupting). Without numerical limitation, I mean.
Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right, numerical limitation. If it is intended
for dissemination he is bomid by the same requirements that the regis-
tered agent is, and he should be registered with the Department of
Justice.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Fishman, do you have anything to do with the actual
labeling of this propaganda material?
Mr. FiSHMAN. No ; compliance with the law is administered by the
Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The
one situation that warrants a little exploration, perhaps, is the busi-
ness of the registered agent determining what is political propaganda
in order to label it. If he sends it in the mails after he gets it and he
considers it political propaganda, he must label it properly.
Mr. Velde. Or suffer the penalties of the law ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right. If the agent himself doesn't think
that the material is political propaganda, he probably doesn't label it.
Mr. Velde. I am familiar with the Foreign Agents Registration
Act. However, I don't recall whether any cases have been brought
or any indictments made for violation of the law as far as labeling is
concerned.
Mr. FiSHMAN. No ; I have never known of a case. I don't think
there has been, at least not within my knowledge.
Mr. Velde. You feel it would be a lot easier to catch this nonlabeling
as it comes through customs than it would be to force labeling after
it gets to the registered agent ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. We do. Actually this is not the opinion of the
Treasury Department. It is my own. I think if we could require the
material to be labeled before it gets into the United States, and before
it begins to get into interstate commerce we would be able to keep a
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5425
heck of a lot of it out because they would never agree to labeling it as
being Communist propaganda.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, may I inquire as to the other agencies
wliicli participate in screening ]3rocedures of this foreign Communist
political propaganda. You represent the Customs Bureau. Wliat
other agencies of the Government participate ?
Mr. Fishman. The Post Office Department. Since it is a joint ven-
ture in many of these situations, I represent the Post Office Depart-
ment, too. The Justice Department of course is our attorney, so we
go to them from time to time for advice on what constitutes political
propaganda, for example, although the law contains a very clear
definition of it.
Mr. Arens. Is foreign Communist political propaganda which
comes through the mails, jfirst-class mail, subject in any way to screen-
ing?
Mr. Fishman. No ; we respect the privacy of the mails except where
there is some reason to suspect that the mailed article contains pro-
hibited matter or anything which may be subject to the assessment of
duty.
Mr. Arens. What are the modes of arrival of this Communist for-
eign political propaganda?
Mr. Fishman. I should think about 75 percent of it arrives via ship,
of course, but in the mails, in the worldwide mail system.
Mr. Arens. Does the material come in bulk?
Mr. Fishman. Bulk sacks for the most part.
Mr. Arens. What are the other devices by which it arrives?
Mr. Fishman. It arrives commercially by air and by freight.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, I would like to ask you if you will give
this committee an approximation of the amount of this Communist
foreign political propaganda which arrives in the Pennsylvania area
in the course of, let us say, a month.
Mr. Fishman. We maintain our statistics on the basis of port
arrival. In other words, we know what we get at New York, Chicago,
and San Francisco, and we can tell you what we have, for example,
for the month of May in these areas. So far as Pennsylvania is con-
cerned, with the cooperation of the Post Office Department some time
ago we selected a 4-week arrival consisting of 830 sacks of mail at the
port of New York and broke it down statewide. We were interested
at that time in determining how many control units to establish
throughout the country. We found that the State of Pennsylvania
ranked fourth in the receipt of this type of material. New York ranked
first. The State of Pennsylvania had the fourth largest amount of
political propaganda addressed to recipients in the State.
Mr. Arens. It comes through the port of entry at New York, it
comes through the port of entry at San Francisco, and it comes through
the port of entry in Chicago to the control unit, is that correct?
Mr. Fishman. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Have you statistics reflecting the aggregate amount
of items from all three ports of entry, which hit the Pennsylvania
area in the course of a month ?
Mr. Fishman. Using the figures at New York, there were 16,000
packages of mail of this type of propaganda material destined for
Pennsylvania through New York.
Mr. Arens. Over what period of time ? One month ?
5426 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
Mr. FisHMAN. During the 4- week period. I think we could double
that or a little higher, possibly somewhere around 32,000 parcels of
mail.
Mr. Arens. How many individual items would be in a parcel?
Mr. FiSHMAN. From maintaining statistics we consider the aver-
age package contains between 4 to 6, We get higher runs. Some of
them contain a dozen individual publications.
Mr. Arens. That would mean, would it not, Mr. Fishman, over
100,000 items of foreign Communist political propaganda are hit-
ting Pennsylvania every month?
Mr. Fishman. Every month.
Mr. Velde. May I ask, since New York was first and Pennsylvania
was fourth, are California and Illinois second and third?
Mr. Fishman. Illinois is second and, surprisingly. New Jersey is
third. This was during this test run. Of course the situation has
changed somewhat. Additional countries have been added to the
Communist bloc. I think California runs very high because of the
Chinese material which hits our San Francisco control unit.
Mr. Arens. What percentage of the Communist foreign political
propaganda which arrives in the Pennsylvania area at the rate of over
100,000 items a month is in a foreign language ?
Mr. Fishman. About half of it, I would say ; maybe a little more
than that.
Mr. Arens. "V\^iat foreign languages predominate in the political
propaganda emanating from Communist-bloc countries?
Mr. Fishman. It is carefully prepared to take care of the populace,
the background of the individual who resides in a given area. For
example, I think in this vicinity we might have a lot of Hungarian, a
lot of Czecholovakian, a lot of Russian, Polish, and Croatian languages
probably. We do not have that type of information here at the
moment, but I would say it gets a bit of almost everything.
Mr. Arens. Could you tell us of the one hundred and twenty-odd
thousand items of this Communist propaganda which hits the Pennsyl-
vania area every month, liow many individual recipients are from
abroad ?
Mr. Fishman. The brief analysis that we made indicated that in
this area you see a lot of single copies. I would say about 100,000
people are involved in that situation. There will be 2 and 3 in some
packages addressed to individuals. They cover complete communities.
I think one of the popular ways of doing that I suppose is to pick up a
telephone book listing the names of subscribers and so on and just
blanket the entire gTOup.
Mr. Arens. This one-hundred-and-twenty-odd-thousand items
corning into this State every month are part of an overall aggregate
which also includes material coming first class, isn't that correct?
Mr. Fishman. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Have you any way of estimating the amount of Com-
munist foreign political propaganda hitting this State every month
arriving by first-class mail ?
Mr. Fishman. We couldn't estimate it. We can t«ll you, for
example, that in the month of May at the port of New York we had
over 210,000 packages of mail to process.
The Chairman. Mr. Fishman, if I follow you, then the Govern-
ment of the United States is absolutely helpless with respect to
scrutinizing this material that comes first class?
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5427
Mr. FisuMAx. We are absolutely helpless. Because of the respect
which is given the privacy of the mails, we do not ordinarily examine
Hrst-class mail.
The C'liAiioLAN. Is there anything to indicate in this first-class
mail that it is propaganda ?
Mr. FiSHMAx. We know that much of it is. We know it for this
reason : Recently there has been much publicity about the "redefection"
program, and our agency as well as all the other Government agencies,
including the Congress, incidentally, receive much complaint from
people throughout the country who are being blasted with this re-
defection material. Most of these people were very much alarmed
about it. They did not realize that tlieir addi'esses were known. They
wrote to the Post Office Department. They wrote to everyone they
could possibly think of. They sent us copies of this material, in most
cases sending along the wrappers. We found that a good deal of this
material was coming in first-class mail. We then found that it was a
simple matter to detect it because we would get a complete sack of it.
It would all look alike. The material was similar from the outside.
The Chairman. Wouldn't that indicate that the Congress ought to
devise some method for obtaining permission from the court, some-
thing in the nature of a search warrant based on reasonable grounds
and belief that the contents of the package are propaganda, and that
the law with respect to the registration of propaganda is not being-
complied with ? Obtain permission of the court to examine the first
class mail. Do you think that would offer safeguards to the first-class
mail and at the same time protect the United States, which is now in
the very anomalous position of the taxpayers contributing toward the
expense of the dissemination of the poison.
Mr. FisHMAN. I imagine the entire situation could stand a little
clarification and possibly some legislation would help. There is a pro-
vision in the postal laws which permits us to go into the court and
obtain permission to examine this mail. There is also another pro-
vision in the law which permits us to ask the addressee to waive the
privacy of the seal. But that is a long-winded and very cumbersome
procedure. If you get 10,000 individual envelopes and you have to
send 10,000 notices to addressees asking permission to look into their
package you can see the cost of such an operation.
Mr. Vei.dk. Mr. Chairman, Avould you apply that to all forms of mail
emanating from behind the lion Curtain ?
The Chairman. I don't know. We I'eceive a large amount of Com-
munist foreigii propaganda coming from countries outside the Iron
Curtain in which there are large Communist populations at this
very moment.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, do the recipients of this Communist for-
eign political propaganda include schools, colleges, and libraries in the
Pennsylvania area ?
Mr. Flshman. Oh, yes; a heavy concentration of that.
Mr. Arens. Does the individual librarian or recipient in the school
or college or institution have any indication, other than the context
itself, that he is receiving Communist political propaganda ?
Mr. Fishman. Unless the college or university is engaged in a re-
search program, they would have no opportunity to know that. Much
of this material is addressed to the student groups rather than to the
librarian or the university itself.
5428 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
Mr. Arens. Before you begin to allude to some of the typical ex-
hibits which I see you brought with you of this foreign Communist
political propaganda, I would like to ask you on the basis of your
backgi-ound and experience of many years in this work, what difference
does it make to this Nation, what difference does it make to the security
of this Nation, that there is this flood of Communist foreign political
propaganda pouring all over the crossroads of this country ?
Mr. FisHMAN. My observation, of course, is personal. You have all
sorts of reaction to that type of inquiry. There are people who feel
that the average American will not be injured by this material, that
he should have access to it so he can determine how the program is
being developed. But much of it is not destined to the average Amer-
ican. It is not destined to people who have access to the radio and
TV and newspapers as we do. Many of them don't read the American
or the English-language newspapers.
Mr. Arens. Did you say 60 percent of it is in foreign languages?
Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right. They will read a lot of this material.
A good deal of it takes up issues pertinent to us, current matters, and
they will obtain the viewpoint of the writer rather than the actual
truth.
Mr. Arens. Is it not a fact that in addition to the impact upon the
mind from Communist political propaganda in many of these publica-
tions, we have the directive to the comrades as to the line they are to
pursue within their local communities ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right, especially the organization issues — the
periodicals published by the various organizations in all of these areas.
Mr. Arens. And in the dialectics, or in the language of communism,
the individual comrade or pro-Communist within this Nation will see
the line he as a loyal comrade is to take ; isn't that correct ?
Mr. FisHMAN. Yes.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully ask you if you have brought with you
some typical illustrations of the type of Communist foreign political
propaganda which is being disseminated over the length and breadth
of this land from afar.
Mr. FisHMAN. There are over 1,000 different types of periodicals
which hit us regularly. I brought just a handful of them. These
represent various countries. Some of them are from the Soviet Union.
Some are from Hungary, Poland, Czechosloviikia, Rumania. I also
have a group of publications and periodicals which deal specifically
with the "return to the homeland." We have m.ade some translations.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, I expect in a few moments to interrogate
one of your associates respecting the "redef ection" campaign. I should
like to lay before you a few of your exhibits and invite your atten-
tion specifically to the nature of its foreign political propaganda.
I see one entitled, "Around the World," in Polish, and ask if, on
the basis of your techniques within the customs service, you are ac-
quainted with the line pursued in that particular publication which is
typical of the bulletins, magazines, and other political propaganda
being disseminated in this country.
Mr. Fishman. We selected at random one of the articles in this
publication entitled "Around the World," in issue No. 17. This pur-
portedly describes a trip made by a foreign correspondent to the
United States. He visited San Francisco particularly. He, of course,
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN TJ. S. 5429
explains how unfortunate the people who live in San Francisco are in
the way in which they have to live and their working conditions, and
so on.
Mr. Arens. May I ask — without undertaking to burden the record
with a repetition of this question, but I want the record to be clear
on it — is there any indication on this particular magazine which
circulates to Polish nationals in this country, that the recipient is
reading Communist political propaganda?
Mr. FiSHMAN. No. There is no labeling at all.
Mr. Arens. May I pause here so this record is clear. Is there a
distinction, Mr. Fishman, between Communist political propaganda
and, say, a Communist textbook on science or an objective treatise on
some subject matter which does not embrace political action ?
Mr. Fishman. There is a definite distinction. As with other coun-
tries, we have many imports of scientific and technical material from
these countries which do not contain political propaganda, and we
make no detention or hold.
ISlr. Arens. So long as the material which is received in the United
States does not fall within that category of incitement to sedition,
subtle propaganda, following of the Marxist Communist line, it is
completely beyond the purview of your inquiry, is it not?
Mr. Fishman. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. So this particular document, which you have described
as typical of the Communist foreign language propaganda hitting the
United States, is in that category of political propaganda ?
Mr, Fishman. That is correct.
The Chairman. Mr. Arens, may I interrupt at this point. The
thing that is strange to me is, how approximately 5,000 copies of that
publication found its way into the coal region of northeastern Penn-
sylvania. "Wliere did the names come from ?
Mr. Fishman, Mr. Chairman, we think, or at least we think that
we have pretty good control over this material, but because of the
way in which the international mails are prepared for shipment to the
United States, it is sometimes possible for a complete sack of mail to
be destined or addressed to a given State and be forwarded directly
to the city without customs treatment. We have made every attempt
of course to stop that, but that will happen. We have these three con-
trol units and we think we get much of it sent there, but there is a
lot of it arriving in the city mail or in the sacks which contain mail
for all over the United States, and it is not segregated but sent on
to its destination without any detention anywhere along the line.
The Chairman. Have you made any attempt to ascertain how the
recipients' names were obtained ?
Mr. Fishman, We have never made too much investigation into
that, although we have a pretty good idea that they have access to
the listings of members of various organizations, some of these organ-
izations the members of which have their heritage in a foreign
country.
Mr. ScHERER, Organizations in this country that have been in-
filtrated by Communist agents here,
Mr. Fishman. Not necessarily. For example, the Polish- American
Congress has some 250,000 members, I think. If they could have ac-
cess to the members' names they would have 250,000 addresses, to
whom they would send Polish material.
5430 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
Mr. ScHERER. I meant they get .access to these lists, to tliese names,
by Communist infiltration into local organizations.
Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right. Personally I have heard that such
information is not available, that you can't have access to listings
of members, but I suppose if someone got into the organization they
would get that list of members.
Mr. Arens. I invite your attention to another exhibit you have
brought here and which appears to be beautifully gotten up. I would
appraise it myself as comparable in appearance and beauty to some
of the finest magazines which we have here in the United States. It
is entitled "Soviet Union." Will you in your own way, on the basis
of your techniques, describe for this record the essence of the line
which is enunciated in that magazine?
Mr. FiSHMA?<r. This magazine is printed in half a dozen languages.
This one happens to be printed in Russian, which is not my language,
but I have a translation here. It explains how heavy industry de-
velops in greater strides in the Soviet Union than it does in the
United States, the way in which foreign visitors to the U. S. S. R.
are received. It goes into a great deal of detail on the great visits
of friendship to London and the anticipation of what will happen
when Tito gets to the U. S. S. R. Generally speaking, the thing de-
picts life as being a very happy business over in the Soviet Union.
Mr. Arens. Of course there is no indication in it, as the law re-
quires, that the recipient is receiving Communist political propa-
ganda; is there?
Mr. FiSHMAN. That is right.
Mr. Arens. In other words, there is a wholesale violation of the law,
is there not ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. If it is disseminated without any indication of its
source, it would be a violation.
Mr. Abens. I ask you facetiously so this record is clear, there is
nothing in this magazine depicting the glories of life in the Soviet
Union which alludes to the slave labor camps ; is there?
Mr. FiSHMAN. None. None that I have been able to read.
Mr. Arens. I would respectfully suggest, Mr. Fislnnan, in view of
the fact that you are thoroughly conversant with your exhibits, that
you select another typical exhibit, perhaps of a different character,
and describe it for the purpose of this record for the enlightenment
of the committee.
The Chairman. Before you go into that, what would be the approxi-
mate cost of that magazine ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. I think it compares very favorably to Life maga-
zine in this country. That same publication in the same format is
printed in almost every one of the Soviet bloc countries. There is some
reason to suspect that they are all pi'obably prepared by the same edi-
tors and by the same group. This is for Rumania. There is one for
Poland. There is one for Czechoslovakia. But they all come in about
the same. They look pretty much like Life magazine.
The Chairman. In other words, it costs a lot of money to dissemi-
nate tliat information. It seems to me that is nearly a violation of
some international arrangement to have a foreign government at its
expense attempt to disseminate propaganda into this country.
Mr. FiSHMAN. I imagine it is a very expensive proposition since
they have no advertising at all.
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5431
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fisliman, I respectfully suggest that you select
another typical illustration of your exhibits.
Mr. ScHERER. May I interrupt for just a minute. Would the lack
of advertising indicate to you, Mr. Fisliman, that it was propaganda ?
Would that fact itself represent such to your mind ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. No, not by itself. We would want to be satisfied
that the articles
Mr. ScHERER. Yes, but published for use perhaps in the United
States.
Mr. FiSHMAN. It might indicate that. These are, of course, all
Government-sponsored. They are printed at the instance of the
Government. Of course none of these we have been looking at recently
has any advertising at all, except that you can buy some of these
booklets. They give you the names of the agents throughout the
United States, throughout all the countries actually, where you can
subscribe to or buy these publications. That is the only form of
advertising.
Mr. ScHERER. The lack of advertising would indicate that they were
not published for use in the Soviet Union ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. Not for domestic consumption. I should think not.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, I invite your attention specifically to
magazine No. 2 of 1956, entitled "Bulgaria." I assume it is typical
of the type of propaganda which is received from that Communist-
controlled country, and ask if you would kindly describe that pub-
lication for this record.
Mr. FiSHMAN. This is printed in the English language. It also, of
course, is printed in several other languages. It contains a greeting
and explains that this publication has been printed now for 10 years.
It asks that the readers write in and say what they like or dislike about
the publication. It contains some articles on the Prague Session of
Peace. It indicates that Western warmongering is the cause of much
of the war around the world, that the U. S. S. R. strives for peace and
happiness, provides opportunities to advance under the Communist
regime. Everyone has an opportunity to earn more money and to
advance. It gives examples of peaceful cooperation. Other articles
stress peaceful life and progress and the happiness of Bulgarians.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, do you have exhibits here typifying the
type of Communist foreign political propaganda which is directed
specifically at youth groups in the United States ?
Mr. Fishman. We have some.
Mr. Arens. Could you describe 1 or 2 of them, please sir ?
Mr. Fishman. Most of the bulletins directed to students throughout
the United States are published by the lUS, the International Union
of Students, I believe it is.
Mr. Arens. Is there any indication on these bulletins that the Inter-
national Union of Students is controlled by the Communist con-
spiracy ?
Mr. Fishman. There is quite a bit of indication to that effect.
Mr. Arens. I mean, is there any labeling to that effect ?
Mr. Fishman. No, no labeling. Here is one. Young Generation,
No. 5, published in German, issued from East Germany. The articles
are headed "No One Is Excluded From the Communist Reconstruc-
tion Plan," and tell how the trade union youth of East Germany fights
82728— 56— pt. 2 3
5432 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
for the interest of youth, how they send the young industrial workers
to the country, and so on, helps the reconstruction of communism.
We have quite a few of those. Here is one, the World Student News,
published by the International Union of Students, a complaint issued
against Paraguay's police.
Mr. Arens. In what language is that published ?
Mr. FisHMAN. This is printed in English. It is also printed in
half a dozen other languages. This particular issue tells the story
of the fight that was made against Paraguay's police, for example.
The lUS members are concerned about the plight of the American
students. Then there is the story about Autherine Lucy in the United
States and how she was discriminated against, and so on.
Another type of publication of course and one that we talked about
a little while ago deals with these homeland publications. This is
one entitled "Home" (DOMOV), published May 19, 1956, published
by the Czechoslovak Foreign Institute, wherein the Western Powers
are accused of creating a cold-war atmosphere in order to continue
remilitarization while the U. S. S. K. is reducing its armed forces by
1,200,000, Atoms for Peace exposition of the latest Russian design
nuclear development, and so on.
Mr. Arens. Do you also have exhibits which are specifically di-
rected at women groups in the United States ?
Mr. FisHMAN. Here is one of the popular ones, Soviet Woman.
The general line of this magazine is the struggle of the women for
equality. Women in capitalistic countries are paid much less than
men. Soviet women are paid better than anywhere in the world. It
stresses the need for international friendships of people. The visit
of Bulganin to England was a turning point in international rela-
tions. The women of Hiroshima demand banning of atom and H-
bombs; care of children in the U. S. S. R.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fislnnan, do you, in addition to information which
you have supplied this committee today with reference to the written
propaganda, have information respecting Communist films which
have been sent into this country from behind the Iron Curtain?
Mr. Velde. Before we get into that, Mr. Chairman, I would like
to make an inquiry.
Have you made any investigation to find out where these various
magazines are printed? You mentioned the one that you compared
to Life magazine, which looked as if it were printed on the same
press.
Mr. FiSHMAN. Invariably the indication is that it is printed in the
country of origin. For example, this publication of News, No. 12,
says published by Trud, Gorlr^ Street, Moscow. We have our own
suspicion that much of this is printed in Russia and then sent to the
various countries for dissemination throughout the world. I don't
think that some of these countries are capable of printing the type of
periodical that they ship here.
Mr. Velde. I would imagine that it would be scientifically possible
to determine whether or not some of them were printed on the same
press. It is my suspicion, too.
Mr. FiSHMAN. I agree. Congressman, but as you know, we are only
in the enforcement end.
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5433
Mr. Velde. The Soviet Union has control over its satellites and
could force them to send out something. At least the postmark is
from the satellites, is it not ?
Mr. FisHMAN. That is correct, except where they find it a little
difficult to get in here and then they ship it around through some
other country.
Mr. Velde. I would suggest that it is possible, as I said, to ascertain
scientifically whether they are printed on the same press.
Mr. Arens. Do you have information respectin^^ Communist films,
motion pictures, which have been sent into the United States ?
Mr. FisHMAN. That has never been neglected. There is a regis-
tered agent in the East, for example, who handles all of the film that
is shipped from the Soviet bloc countries. These are regular current
shipments of motion picture film which are shown around the country.
Mr. Arens. Have you seen some of the films from behind the Iron
Curtain which purport to show the horrible crime committed allegedly
by the United States in using germ warfare ?
Mr. FisHMAN. Oh, yes. We had quite a bit of that a couple of years
ago.
Mr. Arens. Are those films likewise to your knowledge used over
the world ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. We suspect that some of these films got through.
We had held one or two prints.
Mr. Scherer. Didn't we have Mr. Chairman and Counsel, one of
the registered agents before our committee in Washington who sells
and distributes this film and this literature? His name was Smith,
wasn't it, a former member of the National Labor Relations Board ?
Mr. Arens. Yes.
Mr. FiSHMAN. Edwin S. Smith, I believe. He imports still film,
news film.
Mr. Scherer. He was for many years one of the members of the
National Labor Relations Board.
Mr. Arens. Do you also have information, Mr. Fishman, respect-
ing the importation into this country of the prints — I don't know
that I am using the right phrase — the prints from which they make
other reproductions? "Plate" I believe is the word.
Mr. FiSHMAN. Printing plates. We have had a number of ship-
ments of printing plates during the period of time that we were some-
what bogged down. A lot of this material was slow in getting
through. They attempted to bring the printing plates here and print
the material here and get it out a lot faster that way.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, I would like to invite your attention to
the subject of how this committee, in your judgment, can develop
legislation which would insure better weapons to the customs and to
the other enforcement agencies in undertaking to cope with this flood
of foreign Communist poison. May I specifically invite your atten-
tion to the question as to who may act as an agent of a foreign power
under the present law ? Is there any suggestion you can make which
might strengthen the law in that respect ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. The Treasury Department has come to no con-
clusion that I know of as to what changes in legislation it would
like to see come to pass. The help that we could use
5434 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN V. S.
Mr. Velde. Why the Treasury Department? Shouldn't it be the
Justice Department? I see. You are talking about your own de-
partment.
Mr. FiSHMAN. Speaking personally, we would like of course to
have our hand strengthened. As I mentioned earlier in the testi-
mony, there is no specific legislation which prohibits this material
from coming into the United States, and we would have to go about it
by attempting to determine whether this material is intended for dis-
semination.
Mr. Arens. You are not asking, Mr. Fishman, that there be a pro-
hibition, are you ? You are asking only that it be labeled ?
Mr. Fishman. We are asking that it be labeled, and labeled at its
inception, at least when it enters the United States, rather than leave
it to the registered agent to determine what is political propaganda
and when he shall label.
The Chairman. It seems to me that that is just slapping him on the
wrist. During recent weeks we have been reading all the statements
made concerning the desire of the Communist countries for peace and
cooperation. Certainly it seems to me that this very situation would
call for the Secretary of State to say to these Communist governments :
"Here is an opportunity for you to demonstrate your bona fides. Just
stop sending propaganda to the United States as a concrete indica-
tion of your desire to practice what you preach."
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, you are conversant with the fact, are you
not, that in 1932 or 1933 when the United States gave diplomatic
recognition to the Soviet Union, one of the conditions upon which
there was a recognition was that the Soviet Union at that time prom-
ised with great solemnity that it would discontinue its propaganda
activities within the United States. Isn't that correct?
Mr. Fishman. Absolutely. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, are there any other areas in which you
feel the law could be strengthened with reference to attempts of the
Customs Bureau and Post Office Department to deal with this serious
problem ?
Mr. Fishman. We would like to see, for example, that the law define,
or rather assign, this enforcement problem to a specific agency. Right
now, of course, it is a 3-agency proposition. I think if the law
charged an agency specifically with the enforcement of this part of
the act, we could arrange to handle the work a lot easier by way of
appropriation, for example, and establishing additional control units.
We would like to see that the law strengthen our hand in permitting
those people who merely want to study this material to have access to
it without any difficulty.
The Chairman. Before you proceed, I think, Mr. Fishman, you
spoke of the joint venture, at least I made a note at the beginning of
your testimony. Is that what you meant by divided responsibility?
Mr. Fishman. That is right. Right at the present time the work
is being done by Customs and Post Office.
The Chairman. And the Justice Department, also ?
Mr. Fishman. Justice serves as counsel, so to speak. We go to
Justice for advice in many instances, but they do not supply any of
the actual people for the operation.
The Chairman. I thought in a recent appropriation bill we wrote
a provision that was designed to cover this joint venture so that funds
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5435
would be available for personnel engaged in this particular type of
work.
Mr. FiSHMAN. The Treasury Department did get some money to
handle the mail part of this work.
Mr. ScHERER. Which agency do you think is best equipped to handle
it? I admit it should not be a divided responsibility between two
or more agencies.
Mr. FiSHMAN. I am from Customs, as you know, so I don't want to
make it appear as though we are searching for this work. The only
reason we are in it at all is because we have first access to it. It comes
to us before it gets into the United States. So it would be a natural
place for it to be developed. The Post Office Department, of course,
is the means for turning it over to us.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, here is a man, we will say, who is in the
Russian Embassy in Washington, and engaged full time in receiving
this type of material from abroad and disseminating it over the coun-
try, picking out foreign language groups, people in schools and col-
leges and libraries and churches. Is that man under the present law
required to register under the Foreign Agents Registration Act ?
Mr. Fishman. No. He is exempt. I do know, however, that sev-
eral attempts have been made to amend the Foreign Agents Registra-
tion Act to more clearly define the act.
Mr. Arens. Would it be helpful on the basis of your personal expe-
rience in the Customs if the law said that anyone, irrespective of diplo-
matic status or semidiplomatic status, who is engaged principally in
disseminating Communist foreign political propaganda must regis-
ter with the Department of Justice and must label the material which
he disseminates?
Mr. Fishman. It would be extremely helpful.
Mr. Arens. We have that loophole in the present law, have we
not?
Mr. Fishman. That is right.
Mr. Arens. At the present time how many translators do you have
in the Customs who are in a position to translate this flood of ma-
terial which comes in and to make some kind of an appraisal of
it?
Mr. Fishman. About a dozen people all told throughout the
country.
Mr. Arens. That includes those assigned on the west coast, does it
not?
Mr. Fishman. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Translating Chinese. And part on the east coast?
Mr. Fishman. And part in Chicago and the group on the east
coast.
Mr. Aj?ens. Do you have a deficiency in the number of translators
to cope with this flood of material ?
Mr. Fishman. Not at the three control units we now have estab-
lished. If we decided that we would like to look at more material
which enters the southern part of the United States, for example, we
would have a deficiency.
Mr. Arens. Do you have, in addition to the Communist propaganda
which is destined to the United States from abroad, transshipments
of Communist propaganda which originate in one area controlled by
k
5436 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
Communists and destined to some area, but transshipped through the
United States?
Mr. FisHMAN. Oh, yes. In a little exploratory investigation we
made in the South we found that that was a very common practice;
that tons of this material was carried through the United States.
Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, that material which is carried
through the United States is paid in part by the United States tax-
payers, is it not?
Mr. FiSHMAN. Yes ; it is carried through the United States mails.
Mr. Arens. And the United States mails are not self-sustaining.
Therefore, it is paid in part by the United States taxpayers ?
Mr. FisHMAN. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. To your knowledge have the nations of the world at any
time sat down and undertaken to arrive at some conclusion satisfac-
tory to all of them as to how to cope with transshipments of Com-
munist propaganda through the free world ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. I have no knowledge of that.
Mr. Arens. Has there been any international agreement bearing
upon the mailability or transportability to and through one country
from another of Communist political propaganda?
Mr. FisHMAN. International agreement?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Mr. FiSHMAN. I am not aware of it. There is a proviso in the
Foreign Agents Registration Act which might help cope with this
problem if the laws of the country to which this material is sent were
similar to ours in banning the dissemination of this material. But
that is a long-range proposition. We frequently are unaware of such
foreign internal laws. It is pretty difficult to make any investigation
to see whether the country it is going to has any objection to receiving
it.
Mr. Arens. Do you have any suggestions to make on a personal
basis, on the basis of your background and experience, as to how we
could adequately deal with the transshipment of Communist po-
litical propaganda through the United States destined to other
countries ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. I am afraid I haven't given that very much thought.
It is a separate and distinct problem. We made this investigation
which developed the fact that a good deal of it is coming through.
We reported those facts to the agencies concerned. Just what they
have done about it I don't know.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, this part of the hearing today is only
one segment of an overall project of the committee with respect to
Communist propaganda. I want to ask you if on the basis of your
experience in this field, you are cognizant of the fact that there are
also in the United States a number of propaganda mills which de-
velop domestic Communist propaganda. You are aware of that fact,
are you not ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. I am very much aware of that because these are
recipients of a good deal of this material.
Mr. Arens. Do the domestic mills of Communist propaganda and
the Communist publishing houses which operate in this country re-
produce and follow the line enunciated in the exhibits which you have
displayed to the committee today ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. There is no question about that.
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5437
Mr. Arens. There is a close proximation or following of the line,
is that correct ?
Mr. FiSHMAN. It is just reprinted, verbatim, most of it.
Mr. ScHERER, Chiefly by the Daily Worker ?
Mr. FisHMAN. There are other publications similar to that.
Mr. Arens. Can you transfer custody of some of these exhibits
to the committee at this time so that the committee will have them
available for further study with reference to this overall project on
Communist propaganda ?
Mr. FisHMAN, Yes ; we will leave them here.
Mr. Arens. We would appreciate it ever so much.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Fishman, am I to understand that you know that
there is a lot of Communist propaganda coming through first-class
mail?
Mr. Fishman. Oh, yes.
Mr. Velde. Which you cannot open of course. The only way you
know that is that the recipients of it have complained ?
Mr. Fishman. As a result of this redefection program we did make
this test of sending requests to addressees for permission to open
their mail. Many of them gave it to us gladly. In a month in New
York we had some 5,000 articles without trying too hard. That was
just the type of material we could readily identify. We don't know
what else there may be.
Mr. Velde. None of the material that you have shown us here this
morning came through first-class mail ?
Mr. Fishman. None of it with the possible exception of 1 or 2 of
these specific homeland publications which we had permission to take
from the mails. All of the others are commercial imports.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that while Mr.
Fishman is present one of his associates, Mr. Sergei Buteneff, a trans-
lator, be now sworn because we would like to interrogate him spe-
cifically with reference to the redefection campaign.
The Chairman. I think this would be a good time to take a recess.
The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes.
(Brief recess.)
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
Call your next witness.
(Members of the committee present : Representatives Walter, Velde,
and Scherer.)
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that in the pres-
ence of Mr. Fishman, Mr. Sergei Buteneff be sworn.
The Chairman. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Mr. Buteneff. I do.
TESTIMONY OP SERGEI BUTENEIT
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Buteneff. My name is Sergei Buteneff. I live in New York.
I am the assistant to Mr. Fisliman in charge of the Book Section of the
Restricted Merchandise Division in the United States Customs in
New York.
5438 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
Mr. Akens. Mr. Buteneff, you are a translator in charge of the
translating work under Mr. Fishman, is that correct ?
Mr. Buteneff. That is correct.
Mr. Aeens. In the course of your duties have you ascertained the
contents of letters and material being sent into the United States from
behind the Iron Curtain, in what we commonly refer to in these days
as the redef ection campaign ?
Mr. Buteneff. Yes. We have seen actually thousands of these
letters coming through.
Mr. Arens. What did these letters contain? What is the essence of
these letters?
Mr. Buteneff. The essence of these letters — actually the purpose
of these letters is trying to stimulate nostalgia for the homeland of
particular people now living in the United States as refugees, calling
them to return, very sentimental articles, sometimes addressed by
relatives and printed in these papers, hoping that their relatives will
maybe receive such a copy and will read it ; and also asking them to
return to their mothers and fathers and sons and so on.
Also a lot of material in this redefection propaganda states that
those who will return will be guaranteed complete safety and also
will be guaranteed work, housing, and even money upon arrival to
their homeland.
Mr. Arens. Have you had occasion in the course of your work to
sense and develop the effect of this redefection campaign in which
these thousands of letters are sent to people in the United States to
return to their homeland ?
Mr. Buteneff. The effect is very difficult to analyze actually be-
cause you have to think about various kinds of refugees now in the
United States. Some of them are just simple laborers and some of
them are intellectuals. Of course the effect of this propaganda will
be different depending on who reads it.
Mr. Arens. What would be the general typical effect in each of the
various groups that you describe ?
Mr. Buteneff. I would say by stages that the first effect is a tre-
mendous scare that they have received such propaganda, because most
of these people are hiding, and some of these people have changed their
names in order to escape detection by the Soviet agents. Wlien they
receive such material they really get scared because they receive it
under their new name.
Mr. Arens. In other words, the recipient in the United States thinks
that he has pretty well hidden his identity and his address from the
Soviet masters ; is that correct ?
Mr. Buteneff. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Wlien he receives a letter addressed to him perhaps in a
new name at a new address, he wonders with fright as to how the
machinery of the Communist conspiracy was able to detect his presence
at his new address and under his new name ; is that correct ?
Mr. Buteneff. That is right. I wouldn't say he wonders. He
would be actually quite frightened.
Mr. Arens. Is there any other effect which you have been able to
sense in your work in this comiection ?
Mr. Buteneff. Of course, the other effect would be what, I think, is
actually the purpose of such propaganda: Not only to disturb and
disrupt the happiness of the refugees who arrive over here but actually
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5439
to hope that maybe a couple of them, maybe a family or two families
will redefect. That, of course, will give the Soviets ample food for
propaganda in order to scream all over the world that people are
being oppressed over here because as soon as these refugees return to
Soviet Russia or to a satellite country they immediately are told to
say that they had been forbidden to return, that we had been trying
to stop them but that finally they have reached heaven and happiness.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Butenelf, have you had occasion in the course of
your work to study the tenor or type of Communist political propa-
ganda which is hitting our shores in comparison to the type which
hit our shores, say, a few years ago ?
Mr. BuTENEFF. Yes. Definitely there is quite a bit of difference.
Quite a bit of difference in the type of propaganda received during
the life of Stalin and a short period after his death. Since the coming
to power of this new collective leadership it has changed to the worse
from our point of view because in the Stalin period the propaganda
was extremely rough, crude, very easy to notice when looking through
the material. As a matter of fact, most of that political type of
propaganda addressed against the United States was actually laugh-
able because they would say that people are starving here, that people
couldn't buy themselves a pair of shoes, and things like that, which
obviously for Americans is of no effect. Since the death of Stalin
somehow, maybe also together with that general attitude of the Soviets,
the propaganda changed, too, and became quite subtle. Now in look-
ing through all these magazines, sometimes we, even at first glance
wouldn't think that it contained propaganda, and then slowly, ana-
lyzing deeper, we see that actually it does contain propaganda. It is
milder. Now they are more friendly toward the United States people,
sort of pitying them that they are being led by a group of warmongers
or Wall Street Draculas, and so on, into an abyss.
Actually, I would say that one copy nowadays is of no effect. It is
the continuous, week-by-week, month-by-month receipt of such mate-
rial which certainly is a very dangerous type of propaganda.
Mr. Arexs. Does it condition the mind so far as you can ascertain ?
Mr. BuTENEFF. Yes, there are definitely publications which are
meant for simple people and some of them are meant for intellectuals.
Particularly the type of propaganda received nowadays is conditioned
to be swallowed very slowly and sort of breathed in, not even swal-
lowed but to sort of impregnate your lungs slowly.
Mr. Arens. How long have you been engaged in this work, Mr.
Buteneff?
Mr. Buteneff. I have been engaged in this particular work for 3
years.
Mr. Arens. In the course of your experience you have examined
great quantities of this Communist literature, have you not?
Mr. Buteneff. That is correct, yes.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever seen a single piece of literature from
the Communist-controlled regime which was labeled Communist po-
litical propaganda pursuant to the provisions of the Foreign Agents
Registration Act?
Mr. Buteneff. No, sir, I have not.
Mr. Arens. I don't wan't to press upon your time beyond the sub-
ject matter for which you were called. Are there any comments
5440 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
which either you or Mr. Fishman would like to make on this redef ec-
tion campaign?
Mr. BuTENEFF. I would like to say one more thing : That all of what
I have said before on this campaign is, of course, my personal obser-
vation and my personal viewpoint. It is not necessarily that of the
Treasury Department.
Mr. Arens. To your knowledge has the Customs Service or any
agency of our Government undertaken to publicize the fact that a
person who is wooed back behind the Iron Curtain by this redefection
campaign under the law existing behind the Iron Curtain becomes
again a citizen of those countries and is burdened immediately with
all the obligations of citizenship in that Communist-controlled re-
gime ?
Mr. BuTENEFF. No, I am not aware of it.
Mr. Arens. Do you care to comment on that issue, Mr. Fishman?
Mr. Fishman. I would like to comment on the overall effect of the
committee's interest in this redefection program, as we have seen it.
As I mentioned earlier many of the people who received this ma-
terial thought that they had been singled out — that they were the
only ones who were getting it. They were of course very much
alarmed. The fact that this had so much publicity in Washington
during the hearing before this committee has helped immeasurably.
Many of these people now know that it is a concerted effort — that it
is not a single venture, that many people are receiving this material.
They feel a lot better about it.
We have had a very marked lessening in the number of letters which
have been written to us asking about it. I think many people have
read the story and are now satisfied that they are just part and parcel
of the entire overall propaganda program.
The Chairman. Don't you feel, Mr. Fishman, that a greater effort
was made in the United States than elsewhere to prevail upon these
people to come back because over one-third of all the refugees were
brought to the United States under the Displaced Persons Act ?
Mr. Fishman. Yes, I think a very concerted effort was made in this
country rather than anywhere else, apart from the fact that it has
publicity value in propaganda to say that Mr. So-and-So of such and
such city, from New York, came home with his family.
Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, you say one-third of all the refugees?
"\^niy are there so many people in this country, Mr. Chairman, com-
plaining about our policy on immigration ?
The Chairman. That is a long, long story. Sometime when we
have plenty of time I will explain it.
Mr. Arens. Mr, Chairman, I respectfully suggest thatwill conclude
the staff' interrogation of these two gentlemen.
The Chairman. I am interested in this phase of the problem, Mr.
Fishman. Yesterday the Senate passed a bill which I introduced on
behalf of a former Kussian spy. I think his name was Nikolai Khokh-
lov. He was one of the topflight espionage agents. He came to the
United States and defected, and within a week after he arrived under
an assumed name, having changed his address twice, he was con-
tacted. That would indicate a very complex and competent espionage
scheme, would it not ?
Mr. Fishman. There is every evidence to that effect. These people
aren't here very long when they immediately have a series of cor-
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5441
respondence addressed to them. Of course, we don't know where the
shippers get the information. There is no question that a good deal
of money is expended in following these people around the country
and pinning them down. One of the things that was commented on,
was the reaction of some people who had come here from abroad un-
der sponsorship. A lot of them felt that tliis mail being sent to them
was a reflection on their sponsors to some extent, because here they
were being fed a lot of propaganda material to come home which
might plaster them to some extent with the label of being interested
in the Communist movement.
But there is no question that they are followed vei-y carefully. At
least, tlieir current whereabouts are known almost at any given time.
The CiiAiRisrAN. Then it has another effect. Under the Eefugee
Eelief Act a number of refugees were given numbers to come to the
United States. The people whom proponents of the legislation said
thej^ wanted to help have not been moved in numbers, largely because
of the lack of sponsors. I have come to the conclusion that interest in
sponsoring does not exist because they do not want to be annoyed by
the efforts of people after they get here to prevail upon them to leave
again.
Mr. FiSHMAN. I think your assumption is correct. They just don't
want to get involved.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, I think our record should also reflect this
information.
Approximately how many foreign agents are presently registered
with the Department of Justice as agents of a foreign power engaged
in the dissemination of foreign political propaganda in the United
States ?
Mr. Fishman. All foreign governments?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Mr. FiisH3iAN. It seems to me that there are some sixty, as I recall.
Of course, the record is there with the Department of Justice to be
explored. I don't know offhand. I know that in the New York area,
for example, there are three major registered agents representing the
Soviet bloc countries, and our concern is strictly with that field rather
than the overall registration of foreign agents.
Mr. Arens. Do you know if there are any registered agents in the
Philadelphia area ?
Mr. Fishman. None that I know of in this area.
Mr. Arens. That concludes the staff interrogation of this witness.
The Chaiuman. Any questions, Mr. Velde ?
Mr. Velde. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman. I want to say that
I appreciate the cooperative testimony these two fine gentlemen have
given us, I am sure they are both fulfilling their duties to the fullest
extent under existing law.
Mr. Fishman. Thank you very much. Congressman.
The Chairman. Mr. Scherer ?
Mr. Scherer. I have no questions.
The Chairman. Mr. Fishman, it would appear that the solution to
this problem would lie in having the activities of this so-called joint
venture itself incorporated in the Central Intelligence Agency.
Mr. Fishman. It is my understanding that their operation is out-
side the United States and not so much inside the United States. I
think it would be out of their sphere.
5442 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
The Chairman. At the moment, but I am talking about bringing
it within their sphere.
Mr. FiSHMAN. That probably would be a very good agency to
connect up all of the missing links.
The Chairman. It would seem to me that agency would probably
be able to tap sources much easier than an agency of government which
functioned only in the United States.
Mr. FisHMAN. That would be of considerable help. There is no
question about that.
The Chairman. This committee is appreciative of your efforts, Mr.
Fisliman. You and your staff have done a fine job. It is not easy.
Surprisingly enough, the American people are not aware of the rami-
fications and how deeply the infiltration has actually been. We are
very appreciative of your help.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, would you indulge me for one more
question, please ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fishman, on the basis of your background and
experience, would you care to give an appraisal of whether or not it
would be more effective from the standpoint of controlling the opera-
tions in which you are engaged if there were an office located at the
seat of government in Washington, which would be in closer proximity
to other agencies ?
Mr. Fishman. I think so.
Mr. Arens. At the present time there is no central location at the
seat of government of this operation, is there ?
Mr. Fishman. No.
The Chairman. You are excused, Mr. Fishman and Mr. Buteneff.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Werner Marx, please come forward.
Kindly remain standing, Mr. Marx, while the chairman administers
an oath to you.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand. Do you swear that
the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Marx. I do.
TESTIMONY OF WERNEE MARX, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
W. WOOLSTON
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself sir, by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Marx. My name is Werner Marx, 4518 Smedley Street, pres-
ently occupied as a waiter.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Marx, are you appearing today in response to a
subpena which was served upon you by the House Committee on
Un-American Activities?
Mr. Marx. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Marx. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Counsel, will you kindly identify yourself.
Mr. WooLSTON. W. Woolston ; W-o-o-l-s-t-o-n.
Mr. Arens. You are engaged in practice in Philadelphia ?
Mr. WooLSTON. That is right.
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5443
Mr. Arexs. Mr. Marx, where were you born ?
Mr. Marx. Frankfurt, Germany, sir.
Mr. Arens. And when?
Mr. Marx. May 9, 1923.
Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, sir, just a brief sketch of your
early life prior to the time that you came to the United States.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. Well, up until 1933 my life was that of any normal Ger-
man youngster. I went to school, grammar school. I did the normal
things any youngster would do up until that time. In 1933, as you
know, the Nazis came to power in Germany and from there on my life
quite radically changed insofar as I experienced quite a bit of pre-
judism, and numerous times have been severely beaten up in school
and other places.
I left school in 1937. I went to work for a little while. I was
thrown out of a job because of my religious background. In 1938,
on November 9, I believe, I was interrogated by the Gestapo at home,
and a few days later my father was arrested and sent to a concen-
tration camp. We escaped, my brother and I, to Holland, and there
we stayed for a vear, were interned in a camp, left for the United
States in 1940. Or, rather, I think it was late December 1939. I
Ix'lieve that is about the date.
Coming to tlie TTnited States, I began to work in a hotel as a bus-
boy.
Mr. Arens. Where did vou land when you entered the United
States? ■ ■
Mr. Marx. In New York, sir.
(Tlie witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. I began to work as a busboy in a hotel. Later on I
became a waiter. I tried since 1942 innumerable times to get into the
United States Armed Forces, but because of my status as an enemy
alien at that time I could not be recruited. For that reason I left
Hartford, Conn., and came to Philadelphia because I understand
that recruitment was easier in Philadelphia. I continued working
in Philadelphia for a little while and was recruited into the Navy.
I believe the date was November 1943. I served on active duty for 3
years in various theaters of war.
Mr. Arens. Were you commissioned ?
Mr. Marx. No, I was not. I was a seaman first class.
After the war I Avent to high school, finished my high school diploma,
tlien finished my college, and Avent on to the university for a while.
I finished the university.
Mr. Arens. The University of Pennsylvania?
Mr. Marx. That is riglit, sir.
Mr. Arens. Wlien did you graduate from the University of Penn-
sylvania ?
Mr. Marx. I believe it was in 1951, sir.
Mr. Arens. What degree did you receive ?
Mr. Marx. Master and bachelor of arts.
Mr. Arens. All right, sir.
Pick u[) tlie thread of your life there, if you please, sir, 1951.
Mr. Marx. I continued working during all that time in my pro-
fession as a waiter. I went to school.
Mr. Arens. What degree did you i-eceiAo from the TTniversity of
Pennsvlvania i
5444 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
Mr. IMarx. I believe I stated it was master of arts, sir.
Mr. Arens. May I ask you more specifically, what was your
specialty ?
Mr. Marx. I see. I was in the field of dramatics, interested in
linguistics, philosophy, comparative European literature, and litera-
ture in general.
Mr. Arens. Did your master of arts decree at the University of
Pennsylvania complete your formal education ?
Mr. JVIarx. It did, yes.
Mr. Arens. After you graduated in 1951 where did you get your
first job ?
Mr. Marx. My first job was in a — well, in 1950 I think I should
mention, my wife and I took a trip to Europe for a short summer
visit. After we came back I studied for a little while. Then I con-
tinued working in a machine shop — I believe it was, for several years —
several machine shops. I left there and then about 2 years ago I took
a job as a waiter and continued in that occupation up to the present
time.
Mr. Arens. Where did your brother settle ?
Mr. Marx. He is in Hartford, Conn., sir.
Mr. ScHERER. Where?
Mr. Marx. Hartford, Conn., sir.
Mr. Arens. Of what organizations were you a member when you
left Germany?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. WooLSTON. Will you rej)eat the question for the witness ?
Mr. Arens. What organizations were you a member of when you
left Germany in 1939, I believe you said ?
Mr. Marx. No organizations^ sir.
Mr. Arens. Wliat organizations were you a member of when you
left Europe ?
Mr. Marx. No organizations, sir.
Mr. Arens. Was your leaving Europe at the direction of any person
other than on the basis of your consultation with your brother ?
Mr. Marx. I don't think you could call it a consultation with my
brother. My brother was only 10 or 11 years old at that time. 1
was only a youngster of about 16 or 17 myself. No. The reason
was that we had no visible support. My father was still in a concen-
tration camp at that time, so there was nothing else for us to do but
to leave.
Mr. Arens. Before we proceed further I want to touch upon this
trip to Europe. Wliere did you go in Europe ? What was the date ?
Was it in 1950?
Mr. Marx. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. You and your wife took a trip to Europe ?
Mr. Marx. That is right, sir. We flew to England, from England
we went to Belgium, the Netherlands. We were in Germany quite
extensively. We were in France. That is about the extent of my
trip.
Mr. Arens. You of course went on a United States passport ?
Mr. Marx. That is right, sir.
Mr. Arens. Are you a naturalized citizen ?
Mr. Marx. I am, sir.
Mr. Arens. When were you naturalized ?
rm'^ESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5445
Mr. Marx. In 1944, sir. Do you want the exact date? I believe
it was in May 1944.
Mr. Arens. When you applied for your United States passport, did
you sign an affidavit to the effect that you had never been a member
of an organization dedicated to the overthrow of the Government of
the United States by force and violence ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. ;NL4lRx. I don't recall that, sir.
Mr. Arens. To what clubs did you belong when you attended the
University of Pennsylvania ?
Mr. Marx. I feel that my associations as far as clubs or organizations
are concerned, sir, is not within the prerogative of this committee and
because of my previous experience with investigating committees I
would rather not go into any associations at all.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, the witness be
ordered and directed to answer that question.
The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that for two reasons. I do not choose
to be a witness against myself, and I do not care to curtail my freedom
to talk, read, or associate, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you honestly apprehend, Mr. Marx, if you told the
committee the truth respecting the clubs of which you were a member
or with which you were affiliated when you went to the University of
Pennsylvania, you would be supplying information which could be
used against you in a criminal proceeding ?
Mr. Marx. I do, sir, on the basis that I had such an experience
previously in Germany.
Mr. Scherer. Do you think you would have such an experience in
this country as you had in Germany ?
Mr. ]NL\Rx. From my reading knowledge, I am afraid I do, sir.
The Chairman. This isn't Germany.
Mr. Arens. During your experience at the University of Pennsyl-
A'ania, did you know a person by the name of Minnie Jessie Schneider-
man?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. To the best of my knowledge, no, sir.
Mr. Arens. Are you, or have you ever been, registered as a foreign
agent under the Foreign Agents Kegistration Act ?
Mr. ]Marx. I have not been, sir.
Mr. Arexs. Have you, in the course of your residency in Philadel-
phia, ever solicited foreign political propaganda from any source?
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds already
stated, sir.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever received foreign political propaganda
since bein^ a resident of Philadelphia ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. Well, sir, as I told you before, I am a student of com-
parative European literature, and I have done some extensive work
in that field which necessitates my reading material from all countries.
The Chairman. Then the answer is "Yes."
Mr. Marx. Would you repeat the question, please ?
Mr. Arens. The question was, have you received during your resi-
dency in Philadelphia foreign political propaganda?
5446 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
Mr. Marx. I object to that "political propaganda" and therefore
refuse to answer on the grounds already stated.
Mr. Ahens. Have you receiAed World Youth ?
Mr. Marx. The same answer on tlie grounds formerly stated.
Mr. Arj^ns. Have you received Information Service in French?
Mr. Marx. I refuse to ansAver that question on the grounds already
stated.
Mr. vScherkr. Do I understand when he says he refuses to answer on
the grounds previously stated that he is invoking the fifth amendment
against self-incrimination i Is that correct, Witness (
JNIr. Marx. I refuse to answer for the two reasons, as I said before :
I do not choose to be a witness against myself and I do not care to
curtail my freedom to talk, read, or associate.
Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Chairman, I ask you to direct the witness to
answer my question. When it is not clear, the courts hold we must in-
fjuire as to whether the witness is invoking the amendment against
self-incrinnnation. Certainly by his answer it is not clear to me
whether or not he is invoking the hf th amendment.
The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer for two reasons : I do not choose to
be a witness against myself and I do not care to curtail my freedom
to talk, read, or associate. That is my answer, sir.
The Chairman. You came to the United States under a refugee
program which extended protection to people who were persecuted, is
that not the fact?
Mr. Marx. I don't belieA^e it was a progi-am, sir, that I came to the
TTuited States under.
The Chairman. You came to the United States for that purpose.
You became a citizen of the United States by virtue of your service in
the United States Navy, is that not correct ?
Mr. Marx. Yes, sir.'
The Chairman. You were educated under the GI bill at the ex-
pense, in part, of the United States ?
Mr. Marx. As a result of my service ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. Don't you think that because of all these fine
things — I almost said blessings and maybe they are — that have come
to you and many thousands of other people similarly situated, the
least you could do would be to tiy to cooperate with this committee in
preserving the blessings of our Republic?
Mr. Marx. I am trying to, sir.
The Chairman. Yes, by reading from something about your re-
fusal to answer. Well, try a little harder. Did you receive any of
this foreign propaganda?
Mr. INIarx. I must refuse to answer that question, sir, on the same
grounds.
The Chairman. You. are not under any compulsion at all. You say
"must refuse."
Mr. Marx. Yes, sir; I am under a compulsion of my conscience be-
cause I know what has happened to me previously on that, on occasions
of that sort, and it cannot be wiped out, sir.
Mr. Velde. May I inquire, Mr. Chairman ?
Did you come to this country directly from Holland ?
Mr. Marx. Yes, sir : I did.
FNTVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAG.iNDA IN U. S. 5447
Mr. Velde. Was that in 1939?
Mr. Marx. Yes, sir.
Mr. Velde. That was under what circumstances? You had no
money of your own, I take it?
Mr. Marx. No, sir ; I didn't.
Mr. Velde. Who paid your passage?
Mr. Marx, The money was advanced to me.
Mr. Velde. Who paid it ?
Mr. Marx. Someone who is now deceased, sir, a relative of mine.
Mr. Velde. Here in the United States?
Mr. Marx. Yes, sir.
Mr. Scherer. Wl\o was that relative?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. A gentleman by the name of Arthur Halm.
Mr. Arens. Do you receive the Democratic German Report?
Mr. Marx. Again I refuse to answer that question on the grounds
formerly stated.
The Chairman. ^\^iat crime do you think you would be committing
if you admitted you received this periodical ? It is no crime to receive
that paper.
Mr. Marx. I don't know, sir.
Mr. Scherer. Just a moment, Mr. Arens. He said he doesn't know.
How can he properly invoke the fifth amendment ?
The Chairman. That is his hard luck. Proceed, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arexs. Since you have been a resident of Philadelphia have
you been receiving from abroad and disseminating in this area Com-
munist political propaganda?
Mr. Marx. I again refuse to answer that on the grounds formerly
stated.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that since you have been a resident of Philadelphia, without
being registered as a foreign agent pursuant to the Foreign Agents
Registration Act, you have been receiving foreign Communist politi-
cal propaganda and be^n a nerve center for the dissemination of that
political propaganda in this community. If that isn't so, you deny
it under oath.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. Sir, I have received literature, as I stated before, and
I have passed it around to friends but
Mr. Arens. Have you received World Youth ?
Mr. Marx. On any specific type of literature, I refuse to answer.
Mr. Arens. Have you received Communist foreign political propa-
ganda ?
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that on the grounds formerly stated.
Mr. Arens. To how many of these friends have you circulated this
literature which 3'ou have received from abroad of the non-Commu-
nist political variety ?
Mr. Marx. I will not mention any of my associates to this commit-
tee, sir.
Mr. Arens. To how many of them have you actually given or sent
this literature which you have described as receiving from abroad ?
Mr. Marx. The same answer to that, sir.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness
be ordered and directed to answer that question.
5448 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
The Chairman. You are directed to answer the question. To how-
many people have you given or sent this literature ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds for-
merly stated, sir.
Mr. Arens. When you entered the Navy to serve your country, did
you take an oath of allegiance to support and defend and protect the
Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and
domestic ?
Mr. Marx. I most certainly did, sir.
Mr. Arens. At the time you took that oath of allegiance were you
a member of the Communist conspiracy designed to destroy the Con-
stitution, designed to destroy this Government?
Mr. Marx. No.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer for the two reasons I mentioned be-
fore : I do not choose to be a witness against myself and I do not care
to curtail my freedom to talk, read, or associate, sir.
The Chairman. Just a moment, so we get the record straight. You
said, "I don't choose to be a witness against myself." What do you
mean by that?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer because I do not want to be a witness
against myself.
The Chairman. In other words, you refuse to answer. It isn't a
case of not choosing to answer.
Mr. Marx. All right, sir.
Mr. Arens. Are you at this moment a m.ember of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that on the grounds formerly stated,
sir.
Mr. Arens. Are you under Communist discipline ?
Mr. Marx. The same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. I lay before you now a photograph of a number of
people. There is a sign carried by one particular person, entitled,
"Prevent American Fascism, Dismiss Indictments Against Communist
Leaders." Under that, "Civil Rights Congress." I ask youif you
can identify that individual in that photograph who is carrying the
sign ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel. )
Mr. Marx. I see a picture in front of myself. That is all, sir.
Mr. Arens. Can't you identify that individual whose photograph
appears there carrying that sign bearing the language of which I
just read to you?
Mr. Marx. I just see a picture there, sir, that is all.
Mr. Arens. You have no trouble with your eyes, have you.
Mr. Marx. I do not.
Mr. Arens. Do you recognize tliat individual ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. There is nothing wrong with my eyes, but I still just
see a picture there, sir.
Mr. Arens. Is that a picture of you ?
Mr. Marx. It appears to be, but I don't know.
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5449
Mr. Arens. If this appears to be a picture of you, can you tell the
committee where and when that picture was taken ?
Mr. JVLvRx. I have no recollection of it at all, sir.
Mr. Arens. That picture is a picture of the Civil Rights Congress
picket line in front of the Federal Building in Philadelphia, back in
September 1948 ; is it not ?
Mr. ]\LvRx. You stated so, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you have any recollection of engaging in a picket
line before the Federal Building in September 1948 ?
Mr. IMarx. I have done many things in my career
Mr. Arens. Just answer that question.
Mr, Marx (continuing). Fighting against nazism and fascism, sir;
yes ; many things,
Mr. Arens. Did you participate in that picket line before the Fed-
eral Building in September 1948 ?
Mr. ]\Iarx. I have no recollection of that, sir.
Mr. Scherer. You say you have no recollection ?
Mr. Marx. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Now I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact, that when you attended the University of Pennsylvania
you were in the youth and student section of the Communist con-
spiracy.
Mr. ]\L4Rx. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds formerly
stated, sir.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the American Youth
for Democracy ?
Mr. ISIarx. The same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that you were a member of the American Youth for Democ-
racy, a Communist-controlled youth organization in the Philadelphia
area.
Mr. Marx. There is no question, sir.
Mr. Aeens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact, that you were active in the American Youth for De-
mocracy and the Labor Youth League, both Communist-controlled
organizations.
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that on the grounds formerly stated,
sir,
Mr, Arens. In 1950 did you participate in a festival and rally in
commemoration of Lenin and honoring Joseph Stalin ?
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that on the grounds formerly stated,
sir.
Mr. Arens. In viev, of what has happened in the last year or so, the
last several months of dehonoring Stalin, has your attitude changed
toward Joseph Stalin ?
Mr, Marx. I think, INIr. Chairman, that my relationship or so-called
alleged relationship with Mr. Stalin is not in the interest of this com-
mittee. What I feel, what I believe
The Chairman, We know what it is. Go ahead with the next
question,
Mr. Marx. I think this is a very unfair question.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Arens. Were you active on behalf of the Rosenbergs when the
Rosenberg case was up ?
5450 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
Mr. Marx. I have no recollection of that, sir.
Mr. Arens. You said a moment ago, if I didn't misinterpret your
remarks, that you have been active against fascism most of your adult
life.
Mr. Marx. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Fascism is a horrible thing ; isn't it ?
Mr. Marx. I think that my experience bears that out, sir.
Mr. Arens. Tell the committee what you have done against com-
munism, which is equally horrible, during your adult life.
Mr. Marx. Again, sir, I think that my political views and my po-
litical beliefs are not to be discussed here by this committee.
Mr. Arens. You had no hesitancy at all a moment ago in denounc-
ing fascism and telling the committee that you have been active in
protesting and fighting fascism. Can you tell us why it is that you
have no hesitancy talking about fascism, but you are just a little
reluctant to talk about communism or anything you might have done
in that arena ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Scherer. The slave labor camps in Kussia perhaps were not
quite so bad as the slave labor camps in Germany.
Mr. Marx. Sir, I have been against all kinds of enslavements of
people all my life, regardless of where they occur, and against any
kind of curtailment of civil liberties wherever they occur.
Mr. Scherer. Have you spoken out against the slave labor camps
operated by the Communists in Russia ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. Would you repeat that question again, sir ?
Mr. Scherer. Have you spoken out at any place against the slave
labor camps that were operated in Russia or are operated in Russia?
Mr. Marx. I have no personal knoAvledge of that, sir. I have per-
sonal knowledge of what has been mentioned here before, sir.
Mr. Scherer. Even in view of the admissions now by the present
Russian regime that there were such things ?
Mr. Marx. I must just repeat my answer.
Mr. Scherer. Yet you having been a member of the Communist con-
spiracy, say you have no knowledge of it.
Mr. Marx. That is your allegation, sir.
Mr. Scherer. Is my allegation incorrect, that you are a member
of the Communist conspiracy ?
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that, sir.
Mr. Arens. What year were you naturalized as an American
citizen ?
Mr. Marx. 1944, sir.
Mr. Arens. In 1944 when you were naturalized as a citizen you
took an oath of allegiance to this country, did you not ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. I assume so, sir.
Mr. Scherer. You assume so. Did you not in fact? Do you not
remember that you took an oath of allegiance ?
Mr. Marx. Oath of allegiance: yes, sir. I am son-y, sir.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the
time you took that oath of allegiance ?
Mr. Marx. No, sir.
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5451
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party, then,
in 1945?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that on the grounds formerly stated,
sir.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party imme-
diately after you took your oath of allegiance to the United States
and procured your citizenship.
Mr. Marx. I was in the United States Navy, sir. I served for 3
years.
Mi-. Velde. That doesn't answer the question.
Mr. Marx. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Well, were you a member of the Communist Party in
January 1945 ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. No.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Conununist Party in June
of 1945 ?
Mr. Marx. No.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party in De-
cember of 1945 ?
Mr. Marx. No.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party in Janu-
ary 1946?
Mr. Marx. No.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party in De-
cember of 1946 ?
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds formerly
stated.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party in June
of 1946?
Mr. Marx. The same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party in Febru-
ary of 1946?
Mr. Marx. The same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party on Janu-
ary 15, 1946?
Mr. Marx. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party on Janu-
ary 4, 1946?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. I was not a member of the Communist Party as long
as I was in the United States Navy, sir.
Mr. Arens. When did you actually get out of the United States
Navy?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. January 4, 1946, sir.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any
time prior to the time that you were released from the United States
Navy ; any time in your life prior to January 4, 1946 ?
Mr. Marx. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Is there any period since January 4, 1946, in which you
have not been under Communist discipline up to the present moment?
5452 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds formerly
stated, sir.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever resigned from the Communist Party ?
Mr. Marx. The same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. Since you received your subpena have you discussed
your proposed appearance before this committee today with anyone,
who to your certain knowledge, was a member of the Communist con-
spiracy ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that on the grounds formerly stated,
sir.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Counsel, I would like you to follow up this nega-
tive testimony of the witness as to just exactly when he did join the
Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. I think the record reflects Mr. Velde, that from January
4, 1946, to the present day the witness, if he is in good faith invok-
ing the fifth amendment, apprehends that if he gave us a truthful
answer to the facts, he would be supplying information which could
be used against him in a criminal proceeding.
Mr. Velde. What I mean is this, Mr, Counsel. I think he took the
fifth amendment when you asked him whether he was a member on
February 15 or February 1. He said he was not a Communist before
January 4.
Let me ask you Witness, were you a member of the Communist Par-
ty on January 5, 1946 ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. WooLSTON. We are trying to get the date. Your Honor.
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer any questions after I left the Navy,
and that was on January 4.
Mr. Arens. Is your present occupation as a waiter, your sole full-
time occupation ?
Mr. Marx. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Are you presently under directives by any person re-
specting any activity other than your activity as a waiter ?
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the grounds form-
erly stated.
Mr. Arens. Do you know Steve Nelson ?
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds formerly
stated.
Mr. Arens. Was your trip to Europe at the behest or direction of
anyone known by you to be a member of the Communist Party ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Marx. Not to the best of my knowledge, sir ; no.
Mr. Scherer. Where did you get the money to go to Europe ?
Mr. Marx. I saved it, sir.
Mr. Arens. While you were in Europe were you in contact with any
person known by you to be a member of the Communist conspiracy ?
Mr. Marx. Again I answer that question and refuse to answer on the
grounds formerly stated.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, sir, and ask you under oath now
to affirm or deny the fact, that you are presently an agent of the Com-
munist conspiracy engaged in the dissemination of foreign political
propaganda in this area.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. WooLSTON. Would you repeat the question ?
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5453
Mr. Arens. Would you read the question, please, Mr. Reporter.
(The question was read by the reporter.)
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the grounds
formerly stated.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Arens. Just one parting question : You recognize of course, do
you not, Mr. Witness, that you are presently under oath and that if you
lie to this committee you might be subject to pains and penalties of
perjury ?
Mr. Marx. I do, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you expect when you are relieved of the pains and
penalties of this oath you are now under to step outside in the hall or
step over to the press table and tell these representatives of the Ameri-
can people "Of course I am not a member of the Communist conspiracy
but I wasn't going to tell that witch-hunting committee that I was not
a member of the Communist conspiracy" ?
Mr. Marx. Would you repeat the question? You made a speech,
sir.
Mr. Arens. After you have been relieved of the pains and penalties
of your oath, the obligation to tell the truth, do you intend to announce
to the world that of course you are not a member of the Communist
conspiracy ?
Mr. Marx. Sir, I have always told the truth and I shall continue to
do so.
Mr. Arens. Then tell this committee the truth as to whether or not
you are presently a member of the Communist conspiracy.
Mr. Marx. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the grounds
f onnerly stated.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that that will con-
■clude the staff interrogation of this witness.
The Chairman. Any questions, Mr. Velde ?
Mr. Velde. No questions.
The Chairman. Mr. Scherer ?
Mr. Scherer. No, except that I am going to ask that the testimony
of this witness be referred to the Department of Justice with the sug-
gestion of this committee that denaturalization proceedings be com-
menced against this man. He has no business being a citizen of the
United States.
The Chairman. The committee will stand in recess, to meet at 2
o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 12 : 05 p. m., July 17, 1956, the committee recessed,
to reconvene at 2 p. m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION, TUESDAY, JULY 17, 1956
(Members of the committee present : Representatives Walter, Velde,
and Scherer.)
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
Call your witness, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Walter Lowenfels, please come forward and remain
standing while the chairman administers an oath to you.
The Chairman. Do you swear that the testimony you are about to
five will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
elp you God ?
Mr. Lowenfels. I do .
5454 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
TESTIMONY OF WALTER LOWENFELS, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, JOSEPH S. LORD, 3d
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.
Mr. LowENFELS. My name is Walter Lowenf els. I am a writer and I
live in Philadelphia, 4510 Regent Street.
Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today, Mr. Lowenfels, in response
to a subpena served upon you by the House Committee on Un-Ameri-
can Activities ?
Mr. Lowenfels. I am.
Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ?
Mr. Lowenfels. I am.
Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself.
Mr. Lord. Joseph S. Lord 3d.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Lowenfels, under date of June 1955, you wer&
convicted under the Smith Act, were you not ?
Mr. Lord. I advise you to decline to answer that on the ground,
first of all, that that is a judicial proceeding presently pending and
undecided in the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit.
Mr. Lowenfels. I decline to answer on the grounds stated.
Mr. Arens. Since June of 1955 — and I propose to interrogate you
exclusively, Mr. Lowenfels, with reference to a few items since June
of 1955 — have you received Communist political propaganda from
abroad ?
Mr. Lord. I advise you not to answer that, Mr. Lowenfels, on the
ground that the Smith Act case is presently pending and undecided
before the United States Circuit Court of Appeals involving similar
material. Secondly, I advise you to refuse to answer on the ground
that you refuse to be a witness against yourself within the fifth amend-
ment, and thirdly, because the question relates to the protection of the
first amendment.
Mr. TjOwenfels, I decline to answer on those grounds.
The Chairman. On what grounds ?
Mr. Lowenfels. On the grounds stated by my counsel.
The Chairman. I direct you to answer the question, Mr. Lowenfels,
Mr. Lord. I advise you not to, Mr. Lowenfels.
Mr. Lowenfels. I decline to answer on the grounds which I can
restate if you want.
Mr. Lord. Restate them.
Mr. Lowenfels. Because the questions relate directly to matters
which are the subject of litigation pending and undetermined in the
United States circuit court of appeals
The Chairman. As Mr. Arens told you, the questions he is asking
you do not relate to anything which occurred before you were
convicted.
Mr. Lowenfels. I have three grounds. Let me finish the sentence —
for the third circuit between me and tlie Government of the United
States; second, because I refuse to be a witness against myself
within the limitations of the fifth amendment; and thirdly, because
the question relates to matters within the protection of the first
amendment, guaranty of freedom of beliefs, speech, and association.
The Chairman. All riffht.
ESrVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S. 5455
Proceed, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. Do yon know of a publication known as Agerpres?
Mr. LowENFELS. I decline to answer on the same three grounds.
Mr. Arens. Do you know of a publication known as the Democratic
Oerman Report ?
Mr. Lowenfels. I decline to answer on the same previously stated
gi'ounds.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a publication known as Xew Rumania?
Mr. Lowenfels.* I decline to answer the question for the same
reasons.
Mr. Arens. Have you since your conviction in June of 1955 been
engaged in the dissemination of Communist propaganda in the Phila-
delphia, Pa., area ?
Mr. Lowenfels. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Arens. Do you presently have a post-office box number?
Mr. Lord. Decline to answer.
Mr. Lowenfels. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Arens. I lay before you, Mr. Lowenfels, photostatic copies of
two applications for a post-office box for the Pennsylvania Worker,
Daily Worker, with the signature of Walter Lowenfels. I ask you
if you would identify those documents as photostats of documents
signed by yourself (post-office box Nos. 5544 and 4517, for 1951 and
1954, respectfully) .
Mr, Lowenfels. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, sir, and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact that you are presently the conduit via the Daily Worker
and the Pennsylvania Worker for Communist foreign political prop-
aganda which you disseminate in the Pennsylvania area.
Mr. Tx)WENrELs. I decline to answer for the same three reasons.
Mr. Arens. Are you presently under Communist discipline ?
Mr. Lowenfels. I decline to answer for the same three reasons ?
Mr. Arens. Are you persently a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Lowenfels. I decline to answer for the same three reasons.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that this witness
now be excused, and that Mr. Lewis C. Arnold, of the post office, be
called.
The Chairiman. The witness is excused.
Mr. Lowenfels. Thank you.
Mr. Lord. I hope I didn't hold you up too much.
The Chairman. That is all right,
Mr. Arens. Mr. Lewis C. Arnold, will you please come forward.
The Chairman. Mr. Arnold, will you raise your right hand please?
Do you swear the testimony you are about to give shall be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Arnold, I do.
TESTIMONY OP LEWIS C. ARNOLD
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.
Mr. Arnold. My name is Lewis C. Arnold. I live at 4610 North
Ella Street, Philadelphia, postal clerk in the personnel section.
Mr, Arens. How long have you been so engaged?
Mr. Arnold. Thirty-nine years.
5456 INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA IN U. S.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Arnold, do you have in your custody or possession
the original applications for post-office boxes made by one Walter
Lowenf els ?
Mr. Arnold. I have.
Mr. Arens. Would you please produce those before the committee
and describe them in this record before we actually mark them and
incorporate them by reference in the record?
Mr Arnold. On October 19, 1951, Mr. Lowenfels signed an appli-
cation for a box at the Kingsessing station, zone 43, box No. 5544,
and signed his name as Walter Lowenfels, Daily Worker, Pennsyl-
vania Worker. The character of business, newspapers. Business ad-
dress, 35 East 12th Street, New York City. Residence, 4510 Regent
Street, Philadelphia. This application calls for witnesses, that is, ref-
erences. Would you want those references ?
Mr. Arens. No, thank you; not as of the moment.
Was a post-office box issued pursuant to that application ?
Mr. Arnold. Yes.
There is another one issued on the date of July 22, 1954, at West
Park station, also under the heading of the Pennsylvania Worker,
signed by Walter Lowenfels, newspapers, giving the address of 4510
Regent Street, Philadelphia.
Mr. Arens. Has the post-office box which was issued pursuant to
the application of October 19, 1951, of Walter Lowenfels been main-
tained in his name ?
Mr. Arnold. It has so far as I know, because these applications are
retained in the active file until there is a replacement.
Mr. Arens. Has there been any replacement since July of 1954?
Mr. Arnold. No.
Mr. ScHERER. Were these applications made prior or subsequent to
Lowenfels' conviction?
Mr. Arens. They were made prior to his conviction, Congressman,
but they have been maintained since to the present date.
Thank you very much, Mr. Arnold.
That concludes the staff interrogation of this witness.
Mr. Chairman, we had two other witnesses who were to be heard
today. One was Mr. Gilford. Due to a slight personal mishap his
appearance has been set over until tomorrow. Another witness who
was sought by the committee apparently has fled the jurisdiction, and
we are unable to get him under subpena. We have no other witnesses
for the balance of the afternoon.
The Chairman. The committee is in recess until 10 o'clock tomor-
row morning.
(Whereupon, Tuesday, July 17, the committee was recessed, to re-
convene at 10 a. m. Wednesday, July 18, 1956.)
INDEX
Individuals
Page
Arnold, Lewis C 5455-5456 (testimony)
Bulganin 5432
Buteneff, Sergei 5437-5440 (testimony)
Fishman, Irving 5422-5437 (testimony), 5438,
5440-5442 (testimony)
Hahn, Arthur 5447
Khokhlov, Nikolai 5440
Lord, Joseph S., 3d 5454
Lowenfels, Walter 545^5455 (testimony), 5456
Lucy, Autherine 5432
Marx, Werner 5442-5453 (testimony)
Nelson, Steve 5452
Schneiderman, Minnie Jessie 5445
Smith, Edwin S 5433
Woolston, W 5442
Organizations
Civil Rights Congress 5448, 5449
Czechoslovak Foreign Institute 5432
International Union of Students (lUS) 5431, 5432
Polish American Congress 5429
Trud 5432
United States Government :
Central Intelligence Agency 5441
Justice Department 5423, 5424, 5425, 5434, 5441
Federal Bureau of Investigation 5424
National Labor Relations Board 5433
Post Office Department 5422, 5425
Treasury Department: Customs, Bureau of 5422
Publications
Agerpres 5455
Around the World 5428
Bulgaria (No. 2, 1956) 5431
Daily Worker 5455, 5456
Pennsylvania 5455, 5456
Democratic German Report 5447, 5455
Home (Domov) 1956 5432
Information Service 5446
New Rumania 5455
News (No. 12) 5432
Soviet Union 5430
Soviet Woman 5432
World Student News (Bulletin) 5432
World Youth 5446
Young Generation (No. 5) 5431
o
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