HARVARD COLLEGE
LIBRARY
ilvE
lis
GIFT OF THE
GOVERNMENT
OF THE UNITED STATES
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA
AMONG PRISONERS OF WAR IN KOREA
(Save Our Sons Committee)
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OF EEPRESENTATIVES
EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
JUNE IS AND 19, 1956
Printed for the use of tlie Committee on Un-American Activities
(INCLUDING INDEX)
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
81683 WASHINGTON : 1956
HARVARD COLLEGE LIBRARIC
DEPOSITED BY THE
UNITED STATES GOVERNMENl
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Representatives
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois
CLYDE DOYLE, California BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York
JAMES B. FRAZIER, JE., Tennessee DONALD L. JACKSON, California
EDWIN B. WILLIS, Louisiana GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio
Richard Arens, Director
n
CONTENTS
June 18, 1956 :
Testimony of— Pae«
Anzelm A. Czarnowski 5085
Mrs. Elizabeth Mitterer 5100
June 19, 195G :
Testimony of —
Florence Cowgiel 5111
Afternoon session :
Florence Gowgiel (resumed) 5124
Dale E. Jones 5125
Erdis Spencer 5134
Florence Gowgiel (resumed) 5139
Mrs. Mary Phillips Buckner 5147
Index i
in
Public Law 601, 79th Congress
The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American
Activities operates is Public Law GOl, 79th Congress (1946), chapter
753, 2d session, which provides :
Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of America in Congress assembled, * * *
PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
RuxE X
SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES
*******
17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members.
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
*******
( q ) ( 1 ) Committee on Un-American Activities.
(A) Un-American Activities.
(2) Tlie Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is autliorized to make from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, charac-
ter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, (ii)
the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu-
tion, and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in
any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting,
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.
RULES ADOPTED BY THE 84TH CONGRESS
House Resolution 5, January 5, 1955
♦ ♦**•♦*
Rule X
STANDING COMMITTEES
1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress :
« * * * • * * *
(q) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine members.
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
*******
17. Committee on Un-American Activities.
(a) Un-American Activities.
(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is authorized to make, from time to time, investigations of (1) the extent, char-
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States,
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop-
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and
attaclis the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu-
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in
any necessary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session ) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance of
such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and to
take such testimony as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under the
signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person
designated by any such chairman or member.
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG
PRISONERS OF WAR IN KOREA
(Save Our Sons Committee)
MONDAY, JUNE 18, 1956
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
COMMITI'EE ON Un-AaIERICAN ACTIVITIES,
Washington^ D. C.
PUBLIC HEARING
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to call, at 2 : 07 p. m. in the caucus room, Old House Office
Building, Hon. Francis E. Walter (chairman) presiding.
Committee members present : Representatives Walter, Doyle, Willis,
and Kearney.
Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel.
The Chairman. The committee will come to order.
Let the record show that I have appointed a subcommittee consist-
ing of Representatives Clyde Doyle, of California; Edwin E. Willis,
of Louisiana ; Bernard W. Kearney, of New York ; and myself, Francis
E. Walter, of Pennsylvania, as chairman.
The purpose of this hearing is to investigate the extent, character
and objects of un-American propaganda activities which emanate
from foreign countries or are of a domestic origin and which attack
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Con-
stitution.
Call your first witness, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Czarnowski, will you come forward, please, sir.
The Chairman. Mr. Czarnowski, will you raise your right hand,
please. Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give shall
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Czarnowski. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ANZELM A. CZARNOWSKI
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Czarnowski, will you spell your name please
sir.
Mr. Czarnowski. A-n-z-e-1-m.
Mr. Tavenner. Your middle initial?
Mr. Czarnowski. A. for August.
Mr. Tavenner. And your last name is Czarnowski. Will you spell
that, please?
Mr. Czarnowski. C-z-a-r-n-o-w-s-k-i.
Mr. Tavenner. "VSHien and where were you bom, Mr. Czarnowski?
Mr. Czarnowski. In Poland, a former part of Germany.
5085
5086 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. Tavenner. When?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. August 12, 1896.
Mr. Tavennek. When did you come to the United States?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. In 1914.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a naturalized American citizen?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe that you agreed to the request of the Fed-
eral Bureau of Investigation to perform a service for the United
States Government by entering the Communist Party ; is that true ?
Mr. CzARNOWSKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you become a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. CzARNOWSKi. In 1944.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe you remained in the Communist Party
from 1944 until 1955 ?
Mr. CzARNOWSKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. At the time of the Lightf oot trial ?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. It was because you were used as a witness in that
case that your identity as a person working for the Federal Bureau
of Investigation became known?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ta\^nner. By reason of that you had to terminate your serv-
ices?
]Mr. CzARNOWSKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ta\t2nner. Will you tell the connnittee very briefly the cir-
cumstances under which you became employed by the Federal Bureau
of Investigation ?
Mr. CzARNOWSKi. It was during the war. I have noticed Nazi
propaganda, anti-American propaganda taking place which I re-
ported to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I have done this from
the time the war started until the war ended. Recognizing my in-
terest in the service of my country, they asked me to help them out
to counteract Communist subversion.
(Representative Doyle entered the hearing room.)
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat group or branch of the Communist Party
did you become a member of ?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. I attended meetings of the Communist Party in
1944 after I became acquainted with Communist leaders who worked
in the same plant that I did, but I was assigned to the Argo branch
after, I believe, they felt I was acceptable.
The Chairman. Argo ?
Mr. Ta\t5nner. Is that Argo, 111. ?
Mr. CzARNOWSKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Was this a branch of the Communist Party in Argo,
111., where you then resided ?
Mr. CzARNOWSKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you still reside in Argo ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ta\t2nner. How long had you lived in Argo ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Since 1927.
Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat was your employment at the time that you
became a member of the Argo branch of the Communist Party ?
COlVIMUlSriST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5087
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. I was a sign painter at the Electromotive Division
of the General Motors Corp. and, being a sign painter, I had the
right-of-way in every department of that plant.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us briefly about this branch of the
Communist Party with which you were affiliated, that is, what type of
people, were the people employed in industry, or what ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. The Argo branch was chiefly a community branch,
but I also attended a Communist branch that had a nest in local 719,
UAW-CIO. The Communists in the plant met separately. I at-
tended both meetings for a while.
Mr. Tavenner. So you attended meetings of a neighborhood branch
and also of an industrial branch of the Communist Party ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. I was a member of the community branch of the
Argo branch, but I also attended the meetings called by Coimnunists
in that industry.
Mr. Tan^enner. I see. During the period of time that you were in
the Communist Party from 1944: to 1955, did you at any time become
familiar with an organization known as Save Our Sons ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ta^-enner. I believe it was called Save Our Sons Committee.
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes.
Mr. Ta^tsnner. Who was the head of that organization ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Florence Gowgiel, of Argo, 111.
Mr. Ta^t:nner. Will you spell her last name ?
Mr. Czarnowski. G-ow-g-i-e-1.
Mr. Tavenner. How long had you Imown her before the formation
of the Save Our Sons Committee ?
Mr. Czarnowski. I knew her as a member of the Communist Party
since 1946, and I had known her before she was a member of the Com-
munist Party.
Mr. Ta^t^nner. What branch or organized group of the Communist
Party was it that she belonged to ?
Mr. Czarnowski. She belonged to the Argo branch of the Com-
munist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that the same branch of which you were a
member ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ta\t;nner. Will you tell the committee, please, what you can
recall about Mrs. Gowgiel's activity in the Communist Party prior to
the time of the formation of Save Our Sons Committee ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Prior to this she was active in the PTA. She
was chief organizer of a conspiracy with a local school board member
against the school board, district 104, and succeeded in stopping the
school funds of that school board for 1 year. She solicited the sup-
port of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored
People because they charged the school board of segregation, but the
NAACP lawyer, the lawyer of that organization, gave just one look
at the situation and withdrew his organization, charging that this was
a communistic conspiracy and this organization doesn't want to have
anything to do with it.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. When was that ?
Mr. Czarnowski. It was around 1949 or 1950, I believe. On this
school board 104 won the case and the funds were restored.
81683—56 2
5088 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. Tavenner. How do you know that Mrs. Gowgiel was engaged
in Communist Party activities while she was doing this work with the
PTA of which you have spoken ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. She reported these things at the Communist Party
meetings. One meeting I recall in her house, she started the meeting
with the playing of the Communist national anthem, the Communist .
Internationale. She reported that she had discussed the situation
with a particular school board member and the top Communist leader-
ship, and then she proposed a plan of action that was to be taken.
I had not taken part at those meetings at the school board. They
attended school board meetings and heckled and disrupted, according
to the people who attended. Because I didn't attend, I was bawled
out by the section organizer of another section that had nothing to do
with the section that she belonged to. What I mean is she belonged
to one section and I belonged to the other section.
The Chairman. By section you mean section of the Communist
Party?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. Of the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. Do I understand, then, that she was not only a
member of the Communist Party at that time, but that she was playing
a leading role in this particular activity of the Communist Party?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. Yes, sir ; she was.
Mr. Tavenner. Were there anj^ other organizations in which the
Communist Party was active and in which Mrs. Florence Gowgiel took
a leading part before the formation of the Save Our Sons Committee?
Mr. CzARNOWSKi. She was active in the American Peace Crusade,
and after she was busy with the Save Our Sons I have taken her place
at the American Peace Crusade. I attended those meetings of the
American Peace Crusade. I understand she still has some connection
with it and works on it.
Mr. Tavenner. You stated she was active with the American Peace
Crusade. How do you know that ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. She made a point at the meeting about the ac-
tivities of the American Peace Crusade and asked aid and help from
the Communist Party to distribute such literature — engage in card-
writing to the President, Senators, the Congressmen, and distribute
peace petitions and many other activities.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall when it was that the organization
known as Save Our Sons Committee was formed ?
Mr. Czarnowski. At meetings of the Argo branch when her son-
in-law returned, who was paralyzed during the Korean campaign, she
had mentioned several times about this war. It was in August or
September of 1952 tjiat press releases were distributed announcing
the establishment of an organization which was supposed to take place
on October 25, 1952. She announced then that she was going to
Springfield and help organize this organization.
Mr. Tavenner. Just a minute. You say she announced.
Mr. Czarnowski. She told that to the branch members ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. That was at a meeting of the Communist Party, a
branch meeting ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes, sir. And that she needed the Communist
Party to furnish or pay her expenses. The Argo branch of the Com-
mimist Party gave her $20 to cover the expense to Springfield.
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5089
Mr. Tavenner. For the trip to Springfield for the founding con-
vention of Save Our Sons ?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. Yes, sir.
Mr, Ta^t:nner. You say that founding convention took place on
October 25, 1952?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. That was during the period of the Korean war?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you tell the committee, please, if you know,
what the Communist Party line was at that time, that is, in the fall
of 1952, with regard to the Korean war ?
Mr. Czarnowski. In that respect I would like to get back to the
beginning when the Korean war started.
Mr. Tavenner. Very well.
Mr. Czarnowski. The Korean war started some time in June 1950,
I believe. Soon after that there were meetings, emergency meetings.
Mr. Tavenner. Of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Of the Communist Party. I attended one of the
Communist Party meetings in which Communist Party leaders said,
admitted that the North Koreans have attacked South Korea for
the purpose of liberating the South Koreans from the yoke of Ameri-
can imperialism. Of course, we couldn't tell that to the people. We
must tell the people to leave discussion on that because some of
them didn't agree to the approach and they came to the conclusion
that party members should tell the workers and the people, leave
Korea to the Koreans, and since the Soviet Union has no soldiers there,
our boys have no business there and should not be sacrificed.
But, as Communist Party members, we knew that the North Koreans
invaded South Korea or attacked South Korea for the purpose of
liberating South Korea from the yoke of American imperialism.
Soon after that the American Peace Crusade was organized for
the purpose — you see, they had never expected the United Nations to
intervene. They had to do something. Since this failed, they organ-
ized the American Peace Crusade to sabotage the war effort here.
Mr. Willis. You mean the Communists did not expect the U. N.
to intervene ?
Mr. Czarnowski. That is right.
Mr. Willis. So they had to attack it via the American Peace
Crusade.
Mr. Czarnowski. That is correct. They organized American Peace
Crusade to sabotage. To get public support of this organization they
were seeking or offered top ]obs, such as chairman or president or
something on that order to non-Communists or, if possible, naive or
famous or noted people. One of these victims — I call them victims —
one of these men was Robert Morss Lovett, former Governor General
of the Virgin Islands, who headed the American Peace Crusade in
its early days. To this day I do not believe he was a Communist.
Then this boy came back maimed, paralyzed, from Korea
Mr. Ta^t^nner. You are speaking now of the son-in-law of Mrs.
Florence Gowgiel ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes. Soon after that the organization of the Save
Our Sons was organized.
5090 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. Ta^^enner. Since you mentioned this son-in-law, do you have
any information as to whether or not he was a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. No. According to Florence Gowgiel, who made
some of the reports— and I know from other people — this is a won-
derful couple. Her daughter is a wonderful girl, and his parents
are nice people. They have nothing to do with communism. Florence
Gowgiel admitted to us that her daughter telephoned to her pleading
with her to leave her alone, not to connect her in any way with any
Communist campaign.
Mr. Tavenister. I will ask you to explain the Communist Party
line as of the time of the fall of 1952, when Save Our Sons was
organized. You have gone back to the beginning of the Korean war
and you have told us about the formation of the American Peace
Crusade for the purpose of sabotaging the war effort of the United
States as a Communist Party objective.
Now will you tell the connnittee, please, in wliat way the Communist
Party thought it could sabotage the war effort?
Mr. CzARNOWSKi. According to Florence Gowgiel, first of all, she
reported that she had been corresponding with mothers, with parents
of boys in Korea. She received addresses from these parents of
their boys in Korea. So she corresponded with the boys in Korea,
also with some GI's who were prisoners of war in China. One of
the boys that returned here was asked by her
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. If you don't know that your-
self. I don't know whether you are speaking now from your o'wn
knowledge or not.
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. I was told about this boy returning. I know the
name of the boy. She asked him to join the Communist Party, and
he refused.
But then there were campaigns such as the distribution of petitions
and the organizing of delegates to Senators and Congressmen. I was
a member of one of these delegations to Senator Paul Douglas.
Mr. Tavenner. Had the Save Our Sons Committee been established
at the time you are now speaking of ?
Mr. CzARNOWSKi. Yes, sir. When we went to Senator Douglas'
office in Cliicago we w^ere interviewed by a Mr. Anderson, the secre-
tary of Mr. Douglas. Florence Gowgiel told Mr. Anderson that this
committee, this delegation represents the fathers and mothers of boys
in Korea. The fact is that as far as our community was concerned
none of them knew they were going. In the second place, the ma-
jority of this delegation were all Communists.
Anderson said that he — pardon me. I am ahead of myself.
Florence Gowgiel said that she represents the mothers and fathers
and that thej want the war stopped, the firing stopped, right now
and negotiate later, which was the Communist line of peace negoti-
ations.
Mr. Anderson, tactfully, said that the United States is doing its
best to quit the war, to stop the war, but that the Soviet Union has
its hands in it.
A man by the name of Bernstein, who was a member of this dele-
gation, said that that isn't true, that the fact is that the Soviet
Union has not a soldier over there is proof enough for him or is
enough proof that the Soviet Union hasn't anything to do with
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5091
this war and that our boys are being sacrificed in Korea to protect
the interests of the American monopolists and imperialists.
Mr. Tax-enner. American monopolists and imperialists ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes ; their interests.
To this Florence Gowgiel replied that the Soviet Union has no
soldiers there, and that is about all I recall.
The Chairman. How many people were in this delegation ?
Mr. CzARxowsKi. There were five.
The Chairman. How many were Communists ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. I would say 4, but I would swear to 3.
Mr. TA^^ENNER. Now let us go back a moment. Let me interrupt
what was being done after the Save Our Sons Committee was formed.
Let us go back to the time that Mrs. Florence Gowgiel appeared at
your branch meeting and obtained the $20 for expense money to the
founding convention in October 1952. Do you recall what she said
at that time as to the purpose of this organization, what it was to
be formed for, what they sought to accomplish ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. She said that it was the intention to form the
organization of sweethearts, mothers, and wives of servicemen who
were in Korea and others who were about to be sent and any one who
could support it.
Mr. Tavenxer. What did she say they proposed to do or to try to
accomplish ?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. They proposed to end the war immediately.
Mr. Willis. And negotiate later, you say ?
Mr. CzARNOWSKi. Yes, negotiate later.
Mr. Willis. That was the Communist Party line?
Mr. CzARKOw^sKi. That was the Communist Party line; yes. I
mentioned that before.
Mr. Kearxet. You mean the Save Our Sons organization proposed
to end the war immediately, is that it ?
Mr. CzARXowsKi. Yes. That was the line proposed first by the
American Peace Crusade and the Save Our Sons had the same pro-
gram, to stop the war now and negotiate later.
Mr. Kearxet. How did they intend to do that ? How did they in-
tend to stop the war ? Did they want us to surrender ?
Mr. CzARX^owsKi. Nothing else but. They wanted to have our
troops withdrawn from Korea, leaving the South Koreans at the mercy
of the Communists.
Mr. Ta^^x^ner. How did they think they could help to bring that
about ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. By influencing the people in the United States,
by organizing. There is one thing I would like to explain. I was
approached by two Communist members of the industrial branch
where I was a member.
Mr. Tavexxer. Who were they ?
Mr. Czarxowski. Charlie Wilson and Ed Klinger.
Ed Klinger was a close associate and collaborator in Communist
activities in Argo Avith Florence Gowgiel. He attended with her
the school board meetings and so on.
Mr. Tavex^xer. Were these two Communist Party members that
you spoke of members of the union ?
Mr. Czarxowski. They were members of Local 719, UAW-CIO.
5092 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. Tavenner. It is safe to say that the Secretary of Defense,
Charles Wilson, has never been a member of that union ?
Mr. CzABNOwsKi. Yes. These two men came over to my place and
they ordered me — I mean ordered — to make a speech at the union,
knowing that I had a boy in Korea. They came up to me and said,
"Czar, you are going to make a speech at the next union meeting."
I would try to wiggle myself out, and I said "I never made a speech."
But knowing the Communist line that they don't take "no" for an
answer and don't like anybody who would retreat, I suggested if you
will write the speech for me, I will make it. I will study it and make
it. So they wrote the speech for me, which I turned in to the Fed-
eral Bureau, and then I made the speech at the local union. Florence
Gowgiel and Henry Noyes was at that meeting also.
Mr. Tavenner. Wait a minute. She was a member of the union ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. No; that is what I meant to explain. I was a
member of the union. They could not refuse the floor to me, so I
spoke. But they did not permit Florence Gowgiel and Henry Noyes
to speak because they knew that this was a communistic campaign.
Mr. Tavenner. Did Florence Gowgiel and this man
Mr. Czarnowski. Henry Noyes.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Noyes? N-o-y-e-s?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Endeavor to get recognition to speak at that union
meeting ? Did they try to get it ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes. They talked to the union leadership, but
they would not permit it.
Mr. Tavenner. Why wouldn't they permit it ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Because they knew it was Communist inspired,
that there was something wrong. Even after I spoke they told the
leader from the regional office of UAW-CIO, a man by the name of
Bob Voss, said he sympathized with Czarnowski but he believes that
this is Communist inspired and after all it is not union business, that
this is business for somebody else.
Mr. Tavenner. Why was it that these Coimnunist leaders in tliis
union directed you to make this speech after Mrs. Florence Gowgiel
and Henry Noyes were unable to get recognized ?
Mr. Czarnowski. No ; I spoke first. I got recognition first.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Czarnowski. But they never spoke. I asked why they didn't
speak. I asked the Commmiist leaders.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliy was it you were called upon to make this
speech? What was the purpose of it?
Mr. Czarnowski. I spoke asking them that I wanted to help my
boy return from Korea and I want him to be returned in one piece.
Before when they called on me they told me that after I make this
speech they already have a resolution ready which they will intro-
duce. In other words, this resolution that was drawn up was drawn
up by Communists, which the union leadership didn't know anything
about.
Mr. Tavenner. So they were going to try to get a resolution of that
kind adopted by a labor union through you ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes, sir.
Mr. TA^'ENNER. Then they knew the labor union wouldn't recog-
nize Mrs. Gowgiel ?
COMMTINTIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5093
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. I wouldn't know that. All I know is that Mrs.
Gowgiel and Henry Noyes did not get the floor.
Mr. Tavenner. What connection did Mrs. Gowgiel have with work-
ing out this plan, if you know, of making this appeal to the union
for a resolution to bring the boys back from Korea?
Mr. CzAENowsKi. "What connection she had — she must have had
some connection with the Communist Party members of my local
because how would she get down there ? I don't know the connections
there. I was surprised to see Henry Noyes there. Henry Noyes to
this day denies he is a Communist. Only through the Communist
Party would he be identified to go down there and make that speech
or make a speech, but he did not get the floor.
Mr. Tavenner. Was the resolution ofl'ered ?
Mr. CzARNOWSKI. No.
Mr. Ta\'enner. We have observed in connection with some of these
peace movements, particularly the American Peace Crusade, that
when resolutions were put through by certain labor unions — and I
am referring particularly to one signed by John Gojack as one of the
vice presidents of the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Work-
ers, and which was announced publicly over the air from Pravda to all
the satellite countries — they were represented as expressing the
thought of the people in the United States.
Mr. Czarnowski. Of the working class ?
Mr. Tavenxer. Yes ; of the working class in the United States.
Mr. CzARNOwSKi. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. So here was this effort to obtain Communist propa-
ganda from your union in which these various persons participated or
tried to participate.
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes. But they failed because our union was a
rightwing union, and they were watching Communists pretty closely.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. But for that they would have succeeded.
Mr. Czarnowski.- Without that they would have succeeded, yes.
Mr. Tavenner. As time went on after the formation of Save Our
Sons Committee, did Mrs. Florence Gowgiel appear at your Commu-
nist Party meetings and discuss the progress that was being made by
Save Our Sons ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes, sir. She made reports to the Argo branch
of all the activities that were going on in the Save Our Sons, and if
there was any work to be done that she wanted the Communist Party
members to do, naturally she reported that and asked us to do that.
The same thing was the organization of those delegates that was
brought up at the Communist Party meeting. That is how she got
us to attend the delegation and visit Senator Douglas.
Mr. Tavenner. Did she also make any suggestions of things that
Communist Party members were to do in order to help save our sons?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes. There are many suggestions, and I can't
recall all of them. As I said, the signing of petitions and writing
cards to Congressmen and Senators, to talk to the people about ending
the Korean war. In our branch there were three different people,
each one working in a different plant.
Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat type of plants were these ?
Mr. Czarnowski. I worked at Electromotive, which was then man-
ufacturing locomotives. Another worked in American Can Co. An-
5094 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
other worked in the Corn Products Refining Co., where they manu-
facture Argo starch.
Mr. Tavenner. What kind of refining company ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Corn Products Refining Co. In each plant there
were around 5,000 to 10,000 workers. If every Communist is real
active and spreads around the workers about putting over a certain
program, you realize that they can be quite successful. That is just
what they had been doing.
Mr. Tavenner. So those of you who represented those various in-
dustries were supposed to go back into those industries and see that
the people there got the slant that the Communist Party was trying to
give to the Korean war ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes. But they were not to tell the people that
this was the Communist Party, but that the Save Our Sons organi-
zation was doing so-and-so.
Mr. Kearney. How many members belong to this Save Oiu* Sons
committee ?
Mr. CzARNOwSKi. I don't think they had any members. I am not
sure.
Mr. Kearney. You don't think what ?
Mr. Czarnowski. I don't know if they had any members. All the
work, I believe, was mostly done by telephone and correspondence.
There were some meetings or things like that. I don't know if any
member belonged to that organization.
Mr. Kearney. You are trying to tell me, then, that any work that
was done was done by the members of this Communist Party branch,
the Argo branch ?
Mr. Czarnowski. It is not only the Argo branch. It is the entire
Communist Party system that supported the Save Our Sons.
Mr. Kearney. In other words, the Save Our Sons plan went through
the entire Communist Party in this country?
Mr. Czarnowski. It went through the entire Qiicago branch. Of
course, according to the reports that Florence Gowgiel made, she cor-
responded with people from away down to the West Coast, even, and
at one time she had an awfully big telephone bill. She corresponded
with boys, with motliers, and wives of these boys. I can point out a
couple of people who were in the Save Our Sons but I couldn't tell
you anything about membership because the only thing I know about
Save Our Sons is the connection between Save Our Sons Committee
and the Communist Party.
Mr. Kearney. In other words, they were one and the same?
Mr. Czarnowski. No, it is not any more the same than American
Peace Crusade is.
Mr. Kearney. Wliat I am getting at is this : The Save Our Sons
Committee were members of the Communist Party.
Mr. Czarnowski. Not all of them, no. You see, the Save Our
Sons Committee is supposed to be organized by people, naive people,
people who really have peace and everything at heart. Do you see
what I mean? They don't know. I met a lady
Mr. Kearney. In other words, the Communist Party members used
those people ?
Mr. Czarnowski. That is right.
Mr. Kearney. To further their own ends.
COMMUNIST PROPAGAXDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5095
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes, sir. I have talked to a lady. She did not
believe me when I said that Save Our Sons had something to do with
the Communist Party.
Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of a large telephone bill. What did you
you have in mind about that ?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. I don't exactly know how the telephone bill
occurred, but they brought it up,
Mr. Tavenner. Brought it up where ?
Mr. CzARNO"\vsKi. At the Communist Party meeting, at a branch
meeting of the Agro branch, and asked that the-x^rgo branch pay this
bill for her because the Save Our Sons work is a part of the Com-
munist Party work.
Mr. Kearney. How much was the telephone bill ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi, $40. These are her words.
Mr. Tavenner. So she herself made the statement that the work
of her committee was part of the Communist Party work ?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. Yes, sir, and that the Communist Party should
pay for it.
Mr. Tavenner. Did they pay for it ?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. At that time they had the defense committee.
I think they paid part of it, I am not sure.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. As part of this program that you and other Com-
munist Party members were to take back into your shops among the
laborers who didn't know you were members of the Communist
Party
Mr. Czarnow^ski. Or anybody that I contacted.
Mr. Tavenner. Or anybody that you would contact.
Were any representations made to your Communist Party group by
Mrs. Florence Gowgiel regarding bacteria warfare?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes. She has accused the Americans of atrocities
on Kojo Island, on the prisoners, of germ warfare, the massacre of
women and children and so on.
Mr. Tavenner, Was that in your Communist Party meetings ?
Mr. Kearney, You heard her make those statements ?
Mr, Czarnow^ski, Yes, sir,
Mr, Tavenner, That is exactly the same thing that Hugh Hardyman
was broadcasting from Peiping, China, just a few weeks prior to that
to the organization of this Save Our Sons Committee, which has been
the subject of investigation by this committee. He was a delegate to
a peace conference at Peiping from the Southern California Peace
Crusade, which was an adjunct of the American Peace Crusade, It
all fits in the same pattern.
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. To use her own words as I recall them, she said
that the Americans behaved like beasts, murdering and massacring
the women and children in Korea, About the atrocities on Kojo
Island,
Mr. Taa'enner. You left the Communist Party at what time in
1955?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi, In January 1955,
Incidentally, if I may, since you mention when I left. Claude Light-
foot, who was executive secretary of the Communist Party, used the
same words at one of the meetings that Florence Gowgiel used about
murderers and bandits, that the Americans are murderers and bandits
81683 — 56 3
5096 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
and massacrers of the people. The reason I mention Lightfoot here
is that it is the same old Communist line from the top to the bottom,
the same thing.
Mr. Tavenner. About what time of the year 1955 was it that you
withdrew from the Communist Party ?
Mr, CzARNowSKi. In January 1955.
Mr. TA^^NNER. Was Florence Gowgiel a member of the Communist
Party in Argo, 111., at the time that you withdrew from the Communist
Party?
Mr. CzARNOwSKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know anything about contacts that she may
have had with Communist Party members on a higher level than
branch or section groups ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. The only thing I know of is that at one time she
did not attend the Argo brancli of the Communist Party. She men-
tioned to me that the members of the Argo branch are not on the same
level with her, that she associates with such people or meets with such
people as doctors, lawyers, and scientists.
Mr, Kearney. You mean they have class distinctions in the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. You may take it for what it is. That is what she
said. She mentioned that to me also at a Communist Party meeting,
and I then, being a good Communist, told him that she should be re-
ported to a higher level. He then reported it to the section and after
that she returned again to a branch meeting and continued the reports.
Mr. Tavenner. Did the Communist Party pay her any particular
homage or recognize any particular distinction on her part for the
work that she had done in the Save Our Sons Committee ?
Mr, CzARNOwsKi. There was a party given in her honor by the sec-
tion committee.
Mr. Tavenner, Section committee ? What do you mean by section
committee?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. There are so many branches that belong to a
section of the Commnnist Party. So many sections to — I don't know,
the region or whatever.
Mr. Tavenner. So it was the chairman of the section, the level
just under the State or district organization?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes. She had a party there in her honor.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Who was that section leader?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Wilma Gieben.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the first name?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. W-i-1-m-a.
Mr. Tavenner. And the last name?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. G-i-e-b-e-n.
Mr. Tavenner. That was in her honor?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend it?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Mrs. Gowgiel there?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes, sir. She spoke about her boy, her son-in-law
and her daughter, about the horrors of war, that it should be stopped.
Then they went on to games, played games. And I went home.^
Mr. Tavenner. If a letter campaign of this type was to be effective,
one requiring the distribution of printed material, it would cost
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5097
money. Do you know anything about the source of the money to
defray the expenses of Save Our Sons ?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. That was also part required by Communist
Party members, to <^o out among tlie workers and collect money for
any Communist activities, such as the American Peace Crusade, the
Protection of Foreign Born, the Save Our Sons, and the Committee
for Soviet-American Friendship, and so on.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Do you know of any single individual or any group
of individuals who contributed substantially to that enterprise?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Florence Gowgiel succeeded in enlisting a person
from — she was known for a while by the Argo branch as the Lady
from Lemont. No names were given. Her identity was kept quite
secret. I have this lady from Lemont at a reception of the Commu-
nist Polish consulate in Chicago. At that time Florence Gowgiel in-
troduced her to me as Mary Phillips Buckner.
Mr. Ta\tenner. Will you spell the last name, please?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. B-u-c-k-n-e-r. She has contributed quite a bit
of money to the Communist Party. I could never establish whetlier
she was a member of the Communist Party until a transfer was asked
by her from the Argo branch to the North Side branch, and during
the period of time when funds were very badly needed for such
things as the Communist Party fund drive, the Worker, or others,
and money was hard to get, Mary Phillips Buckner was contacted;
they said, "let's get it from her. She has the dough." So they went
and got the money from her.
At this consulate where I was introduced io her she ordered a couple
of signs for the Save Our Sons organization.
Mr. Tavenner. Who ordered the signs?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. Mary Phillips Buckner. And Florence Gowgiel
•was with her right there. They both talked to me about these signs.
Mv. Willis. What Embassy was that^
Mr. CzARxowsKi. The Communist Polish Embassy. You know,
there is no Polish Embassy. I mean consulate.
IMr. Tavenner. x\11 right, Mrs. Buckner asked you about making
signs ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes.
Mr. Ta\'enner. What did she ask you to do ?
Mr. Czarnowski. To make a couple of signs saying "Save Our
Sons,"' which were
Mr. Tavenner. You were a sign painter by trade ?
ISfr. Czarnowski. At that time, yes, sir. I made these sig-ns and
delivered them either to the branch where Florence Gowgiel attended
or to her place of business. 1 don't remember which one.
Mr. Ta%t2nner. That was done at the instance of Mrs. Buckner ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes.
Mr. Kearney. What happened to these signs? Did you put them
up?
Mr. Czarnowski. No. They used them and have never paid for
them. They never paid for them.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know whether any letters were written to
the troops in Korea by this Save Our Sons Committee?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes, I can testify to that.
Mr. Kearney. To individual soldiers?
5098 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. CzARNowsKi. Yes; she wrote to individual soldiers and to
prisoners of war in Chinese prisoner camps.
Mr. Kearney. Did she or the committee write to any Kepresenta-
tives or Senators ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi, Yes.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know who they wrote to ?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. To Senator Douglas, Senator Dirksen, and the
Congressmen in our vicinity.
Mr. Kearney. You refer to the State of Illinois ?
Mr. CzARNOw^SKi. Yes, the State of Illinois.
Mr. Kearney. No outside State?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. They wrote letters to President Truman and I
believe to the Attorney General.
Mr. Kearney. Did they have stationery printed with this "Save
Our Sons" title on it?
Mr. Czarnowski. I believe so. Any leaflets that they printed up
were Save Our Sons.
Mr. Kearney. How about the stationery on which they wrote to
Senators and Kepresentatives ?
Mr. Czarnowski. I do not know, because you are supposed to write
that yourself as a person individually.
Mr. Kearney. Did you put on the bottom of any letter that you
were a member of the Save Our Sons Committee?
Mr. Czarnowski. If they wrote it. I don't know, I don't remem-
ber. 1 know they encouraged correspondence by individuals to their
Congn^ssmen.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Mrs. Buckner made any con-
tribution of funds to Save Our Sons?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes. She was the chief contributor, as I under-
stand, according to Florence Gowgiel.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell us whether Mrs. Gowgiel in her re-
ports to the Communist Party meetings indicated that she was meet-
ing with any success in attempting to influence public opinion to stop
the war ?
Mr. (Czarnowski. Every so often she mentioned that she has a
wonderful letter from a mother downstate or from here or there, or
from a boy, and so on. Every so often she mentioned that.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Ceiairman. Are there any questions?
Mr. Willis. How long did you say you remained in the party?
Mr. Czarnowski. About 11 years.
Mr. Willis. During that time were you making regular reports to
the FBI ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes, sir.
Mr. Willis. How often?
Mr. Czarnowski. After eveiy meeting.
Mr. Willis. All or practically all that you have related to us today
on the whole you have reported to the FBI during the course of these
11 years?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes, sir. Pardon me, Mr. Willis. The reports
were not made alone about the Communist Party. The reports that
I have made were every report, whether it was the Communist Party
or any sub>ersive organization that I attended.
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5099
Mr, Willis. "VYliat I am driving at is that you were in contact with
the FBI, and the FBI received your reports and studied them during
the course of these 1 1 years.
Mr. CzAKNOwsKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Willis. I ask j^ou tliat because I suspect that this lady will
probably either deny everything or plead the fifth amendment, and
I want to put your testimony in context with the fact that you were
in contact with the FBI and the FBI received those reports from you
of the things you related to us here today ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes, sir.
Mr. Willis. Just one more thing : Did you say you had disassoci-
ated yourself from the Communist Party because you testified in a
case, or something that exposed you as an undercover agent ?
Mr. CzARNowsKi. Yes; in Claude Lightfoot's case in Chicago, a
Smith Act case.
Mr. Willis. After you were disclosed publicly as an undercover
agent, then of course your usefulness was terminated as an FBI
agent ?
Mr. CzARNOwsKi. Yes, sir. I would like to mention one more thing,
since you mentioned about the fifth amendment. At the time when
the congressional committee was in Chicago — I don't laiow for what
purpose — I believe it was the UE or something — I put up the question
at the branch meeting: In case they call one of us, what shall I do?
Pie said it is the instruction of the Communist lawyers to plead the
fifth amendment. I just wanted to bring that to your attention.
The Chairman. Did they tell you who those lawyers were?
Mr. CzARNOw^SKi. No ; they have good lawyers. That is what they
said.
Mr. Willis. That is our experience.
Mr. Tavenner. That occurred just prior to one of our hearings, one
of the hearings by this committee in Chicago ?
Mr. Czarnowski. In Chicago, yes, sir.
Mr. DoTLE. May I inquire, Mr. Chairman ?
The Chairman, Mr. Doyle.
Mr. Doyle. Did you ever learn the name of any person other than
this one whom you identified as a member of the Save Our Sons
Committee? I mean, how large a committee was it; do you know?
Mr. Czarnowski. I have never inquired. I couldn't answer that.
Mr, Kearney, Will the gentleman yield there ?
Mr, DoYi.E, Yes.
Mr. Kearney. I think you did say there were members of that
committee outside the Communist Party ?
Mr. Czarnowski. Yes, sir ; but I don't know how many there were
or who they were, except 1 or 2 that I have met and they denied that
it was communistic.
Mr. Doyle, May I inquire this : Was there any publicity in your
town that you saw giving the names of people who claimed to be mem-
bers of this Save Our Sons Committee ?
Mr, Czarnowski, No,
Mr, Doyle, Didn't the newspapers carry any stories about it to your
recollection? You didn't see any that you now recall?
Mr, Czarnowski, I don't recall. There were some articles written
by Florence Gowgiel in our local paper, which is a small paper, about
10,000 or 12,000 circulation. She has made frequent visits to Mr. John
5100 COMIMTJNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Knight, who is the chief editor of the Chicago Daily News, and at a
Communist Party meeting she encouraged us to go and see him. He is
a very nice man.
Mr. Doyle. No other questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. You are discharged from further service with the
thanks of this committee. You have made a very considerable con-
tribution to the exposure of these groups who would destroy us, and I
am sure that people who learn of your testimony, particularly those
who made contributions, no matter how small, to this organization,
Save Our Sons, will realize that in the future they ought to find out
just exactly what they are helping before they engage in something
which is not in the best interests of this great Kepublic.
You are excused.
The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes.
(Brief recess.)
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
(Members of the committee present : Representatives Walter, Doyle,
Willis, and Kearney.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Mitterer, will you come forward, please.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, please. Do you
swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. Mitterer. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MRS. ELIZABETH MITTERER, ACCOMPANIED BY
COUNSEL, JOSEPH FORER
Mr. Ta^^nner. Will you state your name, please ?
Mrs. Mitterer. Elizabeth Mitterer.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name ?
Mrs. Mitterer. M-i-t-t-e-r-e-r.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel.
Will counsel please identify himself for the record ?
Mr. FoRER. Joseph Forer, 711 14th Street NW., Washington, D. C.
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live. Miss Mitterer ?
Mrs. Mitterer. 2741 North Leavitt Street, Chicago, 111.
Mr. Tavenner. Am I correct in referring to you as Miss ?
Mrs. Mitterer. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs.?
Mrs. Mitterer. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Where were you born, Mrs. Mitterer ?
Mrs. Mitterer. Chicago, 111.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Mitterer, the committee has obtained a photo-
static copy of a signature card of Save Our Sons Committee from the
Argo State Bank, Summit, 111. Will you examine it, please, and state
whether or not your name appears there as secretary-treasurer of the
organization ?
(The witness examined the document.)
Mr. Forer. Did you ask if that is her name or her signature ?
Mr. Tavenner. I ask whether it is her name, first.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Mitterer. It is my name.
COaiMUNIST PROPAG.\NDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5101
Mr. Tavenner. It is your name. What is the name appearing just
above yours ?
Mrs. IMiTTERER. Florence Gowgiel.
Mr. Tavenner. Florence L. — how do you pronounce it ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. Florence Gowgiel.
Mr. Tavenner. Florence Gowgiel. Does the word "chairman" ap-
pear after her name ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether that
is your signature appearing there as secretary-treasurer of the Save
Our Sons Committee ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. JMitterer. I refuse to answer on the basis of my privilege
under the fifth amendment not to testify against myself.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask
that it be marked "Mitterer Exhibit No. 1" for identification purposes
and filed in the records of the committee.
The Chairman. It is so received and marked. What does it purport
to be ? A deposit slip ?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir ; a signature card. It is a card required by
the bank for identification of those entitled to draw on an account.
The Chairman. What is the name of this chairman ?
Mr. Tavenner. Florence Gowgiel.
The Chairman. Do you know Florence Gowgiel ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer on the basis of my privilege — for
the same reason that I stated before.
Mr. Tavenner. The document I introduced in evidence, Mr. Chair-
man, bears the date of October 30, 1952, and it shows that the account
was closed October 30, 1953. It also shows an initial deposit of $35.
Mrs. Mitterer, I hand you a Certificate of Authorized Signatures
for Organization marked "Mitterer Exhibit No. 2" which purports to
be an action taken by Save Our Sons Committee authorizing Florence
Gowgiel as chairman and Elizabeth Mitterer as secretary-treasurer
to sign checks and drafts for the withdrawal of funds. It is certified
to by Elizabeth Mitterer, secretary -treasurer. Will you examine it,
please, and state whether or not you executed that certificate in behalf
of Save Our Sons Committee ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer on the basis of my privilege un-
der the fifth amendment not to testify against myself.
Mr. Kearney. Would you answer this question ? Is this Save Our
Sons a phony organization ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I don't know what you mean by a phony organiza-
tion.
Mr. Kearney. You know what the word "phony" means, don't you?
Was this organization Communist inspired ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer on the basis — on the same
grounds as I said before.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer in evidence Mitterer Exhibit No. 2.
The Chairman. So ordered.
5102COJVIMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
MiTTEBEB Exhibit No. 2
Certificate of Authorized Signctiues
for Organization
TO:._ ARQa..STAT.E....BANiK
THIS IS TO CERTIFY THAT, at a meeting of the members of the orguiiiatioii known
uSAii..£. o.y...r<^ s ^ /v^r a o /^, /^J / txA..^.. „ .._
duly held and convened on VcT.. ..a-....f....{..'f..J...}:Z. Jt which meeting members constituting a quorum
were personally present, the (ollowing whose names are set forth below, were duly elected to the office*
respectively designated and have duly qualified as such officers Pursuant to authority contained in the By-
Laws of said organization the said officers have duly designated the above named bank as a depositary of
the funds of said organization By virtue of said election, said By-Laws, and the designation aforesaid each
of said officers is authorized to defv)5ii funds with siid depositary for the account of this organization and
to endorse in the name ot this organization, checks, drafts or orders "for deposit with the bank." and such
endorsement may be written or stamped ' without designation of the officer making the endorsement; and
the bank is authorized to pay out funds on deposit with it from time to time to the credit of this organiza-
tion upon checks, drafts or orders drawn on said depositary and signed in the name of this organiz.ition by
the officers listed below including any checks, drafts or orders drawn to the individual order of any officer
signing the same and/or tendered (or deposit to the individual account of any such officer, until furtfier
notice is given to you in writing.
Name
(List below only
Office
of those autboritcd to sign)
/=J.6 K £ A/c *
(yocAi G/ £ i.
ELf->M "BBy M
*1 ilTB X t<.
C HAf/^^ii 1/
S^c.-r-Cf ^f
Number of signatures required upon each check, draft or order for the withdraws! of *"~*« "<i
Impression of
Seal
DATE ■- QizriBe/i. r^yf. />-....
ATTEST
The undersigned hereby certifies that 3Lhe
is .i4f*fr.5.(S:.fi.-3/?.^of the above named
organization, and the keeper of its official rec-
ords and seal, and is duly authonzed to make
Ms certification on its behalf.
SecTctzTy-T^f/tS.
FORM 131 wt
Mr. Tavenner. The documents that I have handed you relate to
bank accounts at the Argo State Bank. Did Save Our Sons Commit-
tee carry an account at any other banking institution besides Argo
State Bank?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer on the same grounds as before.
Mr. Tavenner. Weren't you elected treasurer of the organization
at its first meeting in 1952 ?
Mrs. MrrTERER. I refuse to answer on the same gromids.
Mr. Ta's^nner. Aren't you treasurer of it now ?
COIVIMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5103
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of the bank state-
ment for the account from the time it was opened on October 30, 1952,
until the time it was closed on October 30, 1953, at the Argo State
Bank. Will you examine it, please, and state whether you can identify
it as the bank account of Save Our Sons Committee ?
(The witness examined the document.)
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to ofRer the document in evidence and ask
that it be marked "Mitterer Exhibit No. 3" for identification purposes
and filed in the records of the committee.
The Chairman. Let it be so received.
Mr. Tavenner. ]Mrs. Mitterer, an examination of this bank account
over the period of its year's duration shows total deposits of $134.
One hundred and thirty- four dollars wouldn't have covered the mail-
ing expenses of your organization for a period of a week, would it, or
a month ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer, as I did before.
Mr. Tavenner. How did you handle the other funds of the com-
mittee ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer the same as before.
Mr. Tavenner. Is there anything secret about the source of your
funds and the amount of your funds available for the purposes of your
committee ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer the same as before.
Mr. Tavenner. A subpena duces tecum was served on you, Mrs.
Mitterer, requiring you to produce before this committee all bank
statements and vouchers showing receipts and disbursements of funds
used in behalf of Save Our Sons Committee from October 1952 to the
present date. Do you have those statements with you ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer.
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. You don't have them with you ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I don't have any.
Mr. Tavenner. Where are they ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I just don't have any.
Mr. Tavenner. Where are they ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I don't know.
Mr. Ta^^nner. "V^^ien was the last time you saw them ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I never saw them.
Mr. Tavenner. You never saw any of the record, any bank records
of Save Our Sons Committee?
Mrs. Mitterer. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you sign the checks on the account at the
bank?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. If you refuse to answer the question as to whether
or not you signed the checks, you certainly cannot conscientiously say
that you have never seen any of the vouchers of this organization.
Mr. FoRER. No, no. You were referring to the bank statements.
Mr. Tavenner. Statements and vouchers.
Mr. FoRER. What do you mean by vouchers ?
Mr. Tavbnner. Checks.
81683—56 i
5104 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. Kearney. Counsel knows what vouchers are, doesn't he ?
Mr. FoRER. Voucher could mean a dozen different things.
Mr. Tavenner. If there is any possibility of misunderstanding,
where are the checks which were issued on the bank account of Save
Our Sons Committee ?
Mr. FoRER. You mean canceled checks ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; canceled checks.
Mr. Forer. The fact that she signed checks, if she did before, doesn't
mean she got them back from the bank.
Mr. Tavenner. That isn't my question. Will you answer my
question ?
Mr. Forer. The question is where are they, the canceled checks?
Is that the question ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Forer. Do you know where they are ?
Mrs. IVIiTTERER. No ; I don't.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you last see them ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I never saw them.
The Chairman. How" did your name get on them if you never saw
them ?
Mr. Forer. She never saw the canceled checks.
Mr. Tavenner. Just let her answer the question. You do not have
to help her on a factual situation.
Mr. Forer. You are claiming an inconsistency.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. I probably will, but let's develop it first.
You haven't seen the canceled checks ? Is that it ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Willis. Did you sign the original checks before they went to
the bank and were canceled ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer.
Mr. Tavenner. To whom were the canceled cheeks delivered ?
Mrs. JNIiTTERER. I refuse to answer.
Mr. Kearney. Did anyone else sign the checks besides you, Mrs.
Mitterer? Did anyone else sign these checks besides yourself?
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Mitterer, you were directed by the subpena
duces tecum to produce copies of all correspondence of Save Our
Sons Committee and officers and employees thereof with members
of the Armed Forces of the United States who were prisoners of war
in Korea. Do you have the records with you ?
Mrs. Mitterer. No ; I never had them.
Mr. Tavenner. You never had them ?
Mrs. Mitterer. No.
Mr. TA^^NNER. Who does have them ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Mitterer. I don't know who has them.
Mr. Tavennfji. When did you last see them ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I never saw them.
Mr. Tavenner. You never saw copies of any letters to men in the
Armed Forces, prisoners of war ?
Mrs. Mitterer. No ; I never saw any.
The Chairman. Did you ever write any letters to any prisoners of
war?
COIVIMUNIST PROPAGANDA AIMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5105
Mrs. MiTTERER. No ; never.
Mr. Taa-enner. Do you have in your custody copies of petitions
that you had signed in Korea, tliat Save Our Sons had signed in
Korea ?
Mrs. INIlTTERER. No.
Mr. Ta\tnner. Who does have them ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you hist see them ?
Mrs. ]MiTTERER. I never saw them.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Let me hand you issue No. 2, page 1, of a bulletin
entitled "Save Our Sons — While Row on Row the Crosses Grow,"
bearing date of February 1953. Will you examine it, please, and
identify that as an issue of the official publication of your organization
of Save Our Sons ?
(The witness examined the document.)
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer on the basis of my privilege
under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me read this paragraph to you :
Thanks to our devoted SOSers, with special gratitude to Elizabeth Mitterer,
our most overworked volunteer, we will present thousands of signatures on our
cease-fire scrolls to add strength to our plea.
You were one of the overworked volunteers in the obtaining of
thousands of signatures. Can you tell us that you have never seen any
of those petitions ?
IMrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Actually you have seen the petitions and you helped
in obtaining them, didn't you ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. TA^^:NNER. Were you at the founding convention on October
25,1952?
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Ta%t.nner. In other words, you have determined that you won't
give this committee any inform.ation of any character that you have
regarding Save Our Sons Committee? Isn't that in substance the
position that you are taking ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Mitterer. I just don't understand what you mean.
Mr. Ta\T':nner. You have so far refused to answer any question that
I have asked you relating to Save Our Sons Committee. Had you
determined before coming here that you would not answer any question
relating to that organization ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Mitterer. I still don't understand.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, there is no need of my repeating it if you can't
understand it.
The subpena duces tecum required you to produce copies of all lettere
from Save Our Sons Committee and officers and employees with
parents of members of the armed services of the United States who
were prisoners of war in Korea. Do you have copies of such letters ?
Mrs. Mitterer. No.
Mr. Tavtcnner. Were such letters written ?
Mrs. ISIiTTERER. I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. You don't know whether letters were written to
parents of prisoners of war in Korea ?
5106 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Tavenner. You do not know? Do you know whether letters
were written to prisoners of war in Korea ?
Mrs. IMitterer. No.
Mr. Tavenner. You do not know that?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know letters were received from prisoners
of war in Korea by Save Our Sons Committee or Mrs. Florence
Gowgiel acting as its chairman ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Tavenner. You don't know that ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Didn't Save Our Sons Committee through its pub-
lications and its bulletins quote letters received from veterans in Korea
or prisoners of war ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mr. FoRER. Would you repeat the question ?
Mr. Ta\^nner. Isn't it a fact that Save Our Sons Committee, by
its official publication or bulletin, published letters received from
prisoners of war in Korea ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. MiTTERER. Not that I remember of.
Mr. Tavenner. You don't remember. What did Save Our Sons
Committee do, then ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. How do you pronomice G-o-w-g-i-e-1 ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. Gowgiel.
Mr. Kearney. What is the first name ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. Florence.
Mr. Kearney. Was she cochairman of this committee ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did tlie Save Our Sons Committee have in its pos-
session a list of prisoners of war in Korea ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you learn from Mrs. Gowgiel or any other per-
son officially connected with Save Our Sons Committee where the
names of prisoners of war in Korea were obtained ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Tavenner. You never heard that?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you observe at any time letters being received
from Shangliai ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Tavenner. You did not?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Was there any correspondence from Save Our Sons
Committee and any Shanghai newspapers or publications or individ-
uals engaged in such work in Slianghai ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No ; I don't know nothing about it.
Mr. Tavenner. Was your organization in correspondence with the
National Guardian ?
Mr. FoRER. You sa;^ "your organization" ?
Mr. Taa^nner. I will change the question.
COJVIMUNIST PROPAGANDA .VIMOXG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5107
Was Save Our Sons Committee engaged at any time in corre-
spoixleiice with National Guardian or its editor, Cedric Belfrage?
Mis. MriTKRER. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
The CiiAiR:MAN. Were you in Washington on the 27tli of February
1953 ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Kearney. What was the total organization in the Save Our
Sons organization ?
Mrs. MiTrERER. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearxey. As a matter of fact, Mrs. Mitterer, this Save Our
Sons organization was a Communist front organization, wasn't it?
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Ta\t:nxer. Were j'ou one of the original sponsors prior to the
founding convention of this organization ?
Mrs. MiiTERER. Will you repeat that?
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Maj'be I can help you to answer it by showing you
an advertisement issued prior to the founding convention which called
for the holding of the convention.
(The witness examined the document.)
Mr. Ta\'enis'er. It solicits funds and it gives the names of the spon-
sors. If you will look at the third or fourth one there, I think you
will see your name.
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer that under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. Will you look at it, please, and
state whether or not you see your name as one of the sponsors ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Mitterer. I see my name.
Mr. Tavenner. Under the list of sponsors? Under the heading
"Sponsors" ?
Mrs. Mitterer. Yes.
Mr. TA^^:NNER. Weren't you a sponsor ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer that.
Mr. Ta%'enner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask
that it be marked "Mitterer Exhibit No, 4'' for identification purposes
and filed in the records of the committee.
The Chairman. The document will be so received.
Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed in October 25, 1952 ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. Mitterer. I wasn't employed at all.
Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed during the next 6 months
after that date?
Mrs. Mitterer. I wasn't employed.
Mr. Tavenner. By that you mean you were not paid any salary?
Mrs. Mitterer. No.
Mr. Tavenner. What work did you do, whether for compensation,
reward, or otherwise? In other words, were you paid for it or not,
the work that you did do ?
Mrs. Mitterer. I didn't do any work.
Mr. Tavenner. You did no work with Save Our Sons Committee?
Mr. Fdrer. Are you talking about holding a job ?
Mr. Tavenner. No; I am asking whether she did any work with
Save Our Sons. Anybody knows what work is.
Mrs. Mitterer. I refuse to answer for the same reason.
5108 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on
October 25, 1952 ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party
at any time that I have not specifically asked you about?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions ?
The Chairman. Any questions ?
Mr. DoYLE. Yes ; 1 or 2.
May I ask you, please, madam — I take it from your answers that
your relationship to this committee was merely one of a volunteer
person ; is that correct ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer for the same reason.
Mr. Doyle. You stated that you did not have the correspondence
file or any correspondence of the committee in answer to this subpena.
Did you ever see that file ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No, I never did.
Mr. Doyle. Do you know who did have it?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. DoYE. Was it ever in your possession ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Doyle. Do you know to whom the bank which issued this photo-
static card delivered the canceled checks after the bank honored them?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Doyle. Were the committee funds to your knowledge ever
audited by any bookkeeper or accountant, do you know ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I don't know. I know nothing about it.
Mr. Doyle. Did the committee have a bookkeeper so far as you
know?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Doyle. You understand the question. Did the committee have
a person who kept a record of the incoming money and outgoing
money ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I don't know.
Mr. Doyle. Your answer is that you don't know ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No, I don't know.
Mr. Doyle. Who in the committee, so far as you know, did have
possession of those committee records of moneys received and ex-
pended, if you didn't have ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No, I don't know.
Mr. Doyle. Did any member of the committee ever tell you that
they had those books and records ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. No.
Mr. Doyle. What person of the committee, if any one, asked you to
sign any committee reports or records as secretary-treasurer ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer that on the basis that I did
before.
Mr. Doyle. You remember signing some documents for the commit-
tee, do you ?
( The witness conferred with her counsel. )
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer for the same reason.
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5109
Mr. Doyle. Who presented any committee papers or documents for
you to sign and which you did sign as secretary-treasurer? Who
presented those papers to you to sign ?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer for the same reason.
Mr. Do^oE. Did you ever attend a meeting of the committee?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer for the same reason.
Mr. Doyle. Did the committee have an office at which you were
ever present?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer for the same reason.
Mr. DoYLE. Did you yourself ever solicit any funds for the com-
mittee ?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer for the same reason.
The Chairman. Is that all, Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. I think one more question.
I take it, then, that your relationship with the committee was about
this : That, while your name was used as secretary-treasurer, you were
not a business person employed in any occupation during that period
of time, but were a housewife; is that correct?
Mrs. MiTTERER. I am a housewife.
Mr. Doyle. You are and you were during this period of time; is
that correct?
Mrs. MiTTERER. That is correct.
Mr. Doyle. So your relationship was that you allowed your name
to be used but did not actively take part in the committee's affairs;
is that correct ?
]\Irs. MiTTERER. I refuse to answer that for the same reason as before.
Mr. Doyle. I thank you.
The Chairman. Any questions?
The witness is excused from further attendance under the subpena,
and <:he committee will stand in recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow
morning.
(^Vliereupon, at 3:50 p. m. Monday, June 18, the committee was
recessed to reconvene at 10 a. m. Tuesday, June 19, 1956.)
INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG
PRISONERS OF WAR IN KOREA
TUESDAY, JUNE 19, 1956
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ D. G.
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to recess, at 10 a. m. in the caucus room, Old House Office
Building, Hon. Clyde Doyle (chairman of the subcommittee) presid-
ing.
Committee members present: Representatives Francis E. Walter,
Clyde Doyle, and Bernard W. Kearnej^
Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel, and George
C. Williams, investigator.
( Committee members present at the time of convening : Representa-
tives Doyle and Kearney. )
Mr. Doyle. The subconimittee will please come to order.
By reason of appointment of the subcommittee by the chairman of
the full committee, the subcommittee consistin^of Mr. Kearney of
New York, IMr. Willis of Louisiana, and Mr. Doyle of California,
acting as chairman, and a quorum of the subcommittee being present,
we will proceed.
I am informed Mr. Willis will be here shortly.
Who is your first witness, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Gowgiei.
Mr. Doyle. Would you please raise your right hand and be sworn ?
Please rise.
Do you solenmly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
JVIrs. Gowgiel. I do.
TESTIMONY OF FLORENCE GOWGIEI, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JOSEPH FOEER
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. Florence Gowgiei.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. G-o-w-g-i-e-1.
Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please iden-
tify himself for the record ?
Mr. FoRER. Joseph Forer, 711 14th Street NW., Washington, D. C.
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live, Mrs. Gowgiei ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. In Argo.
Mr. Tavenner. Argo, 111. ?
81683—56 5 5111
5112 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mrs. GowGiEL. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived there ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. All my life.
Mr. Tavennek. What was your name prior to marriage ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. This is my single name, my father's name.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you use any other name at this time ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I certainly don't.
Mr. Tavenner, Are you the chairman at this time of an organization
known as Save Our Sons Committee ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer on the basis of my privilege under
the fifth amendment, not to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Taahenner. Notwithstanding you take that position before this
committee, j'^ou have this morning circulated among the press state-
ments indicating that you are the present chairHian of Save Our Sons
Committee. Isn't that true ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer.
Mr. Kearnet. In other words, Mrs. Gowgiel
Mrs. Gowgiel. On the same grounds.
Mr. Kearney. In other words, it is easy enough to make a statement
to the press when you are not under oath. When you come here it is
a different story. Is that it?
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Counsel, here is a letter I received in the mail
signed by a Mrs. Florence Gowgiel, cliairman. Save Our Sons Com-
mittee. This is dated June 15, 1956. I present that to you. Counsel.
Maybe that will help refresh the witness' memory.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your address, Mrs. Gowgiel ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. 6159 Archer Road, Argo.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you an envelope addressed to Mr. Clyde
Doyle, House of Representatives, Wasliington, D. C, and a typewritten
letter, presumably mailed in that envelope, signed Mrs. Florence Gow-
giel, chairman. Save Our Sons Committee, and showing the address
of 6159 Archer Road, Argo, 111.
Will you examine it, please, and state whether or not you mailed that
letter?
( Document handed to the witness. )
Mr. Tavenner. To Congressman Doyle ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine the letter again, please, and state
whether or not there is an ink signature at the bottom of the letter?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer — ^
Mr. FoRER. He just asked you if there is something in ink written
there.
Mrs. Gowgiel. Yes, there is something written in ink.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine it, please, and state what name
appears there?
Mrs. Gowgiel. Florence Gowgiel.
Mr. Tavenner. Below that signature,is there typewritten this lan-
guage: "Chairman, Save Our Sons Committee"?
"Chairman, Save Our Sons Committee" ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you type it there ?
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5113
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer.
Mr. TA^'ENNER. Is that your signature, the name Florence Gowgiel ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer.
Mr. Keaknet. Mr. Chairman, I ask that you direct the witness to
answer.
Mrs. Gowgiel. For the same reason, under the fifth amendment.
Mr. DoYiji. I instruct the witness to answer. We cannot accept
your answer.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I still refuse to answer on the basis of my privilege
under the fifth amendment, not to be a witness against myself.
Mr. Doyle. I might state, Counsel, at this point, that I received
those two sheets of typewritten material yesterday in the envelope
which I handed you, on which the postage was paid and received
here at Washington in my office.
ISIr. Kearney. Yes; and I think every other member of the com-
mittee received one.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Gowgiel, I hand you a photostatic copy of a
call to an emergency Midwest assembly. Will you examine it, plea?e,
and state whether that was a call which you issued for the founding
convention of Save Our Sons Committee?
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to introduce tlie document
in evidence and ask that it be marked "Gowgiel Exhibit No. 1," for
identification purposes and filed in the records of the committee.
Mr. Doyle. It will be received and so marked.
(The document referred to was marked "Gowgiel Exhibit No. 1"
and filed for the information of the committee.)
Mr. Tavenner. And I will read parts of it.
A call to all patriotic Americans who have loved ones in Korea, in uniform,
or about to be drafted :
Mothers, fathers of Americans in Korea, in the frontlines, in prison camps,
and in hospitals. * * * All organizations whose members have sons in the
armed services or in Korea come to an emergency IMidwest assembly Saturday,
October 25, 11 a. m., in Springfield, III., to save the lives of our sons and loved
ones; to stir the conscience of America; to tell all puldic officials and all
candidates for office that we want an immediate end of the senseless slaughter.
1. For a cease-fire in Korea on both sides NOW !
2. Continue negotiations to settle remaining question of repatriation of
prisoners.
Was the founding convention held pursuant to this call on Octo-
ber 25, 1952, in Springfield, 111. ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Ta\tenner. Mr. Czarnowski, in his testimony before the com-
mittee yesterday, advised the committee that you reported to the Argo
branch of the Communist Party in August or September of that year
the proposal to form this organization of Save Our Sons Committee,
and after discussing its purposes with the Communist Party branch
you asked for financial assistance from that branch of the Commu-
nist Party to pay your expenses to this founding convention in
Springfield.
Was any part of his testimony insofar as it related to you in con-
nection with your appearance before that group true?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
5114 coMMinsriST propaganda among korean war prisoners
Mr. Ta\t.nner. Actually, didn't you make the keynote address
at tlie founding convention of Save Our Sons assembly in Springfield,
on October 25 ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I abide by my refusal to answer.
Mr. Doyle. I instruct you to answer. We cannot accept that aa
a satisfactory ansAver.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
ISh'. Doyle. Do you still refuse to answer ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. Yes ; under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you, just a few moments ago, hand to the
press in this room the program of that founding convention which
shows keynote address, Mrs. Florence Gowgiel, Argo, 111., for spon-
soring committee ?
And I hand 3'ou the printed program to refresh your recollection.
(Document handed to tlie witness.)
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
!Mrs. Gowgiel. No ; not a few minutes ago, I didn't.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you hand it to them ?
Mr. Forer. You are assuming she did.
(Tlie witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Kearney. I suggest that counsel let the witness testify.
(Tlie witness confers with her counsel.)
]\Ir. Tavenner. Did you deliver it to the press for publication ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner, Is the document which I hand you a program of
the founding convention ?
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Taatrnner. I desire to introduce the document in evidence and
ask that it be marked "Gowgiel Exhibit No. 2," for identification
purposes and filed in the records of the committee.
J\Ir. Do-i-LE. It is so recei ved and so marked.
(The document referred to vras marked "Gowgiel Exhibit No. 2"
and filed for the information of the committee.)
j\Ir. Tavenner. ]Mi"s. Gowgiel, I have before me a photostatic copy
of an article appearing in the Illinois State Journal and Register,
Springfield, 111., published Sunday morning, October 26, 1952.
The heading is :
"Plead for Cease Fire. 'Save Our Sons' Group Meets Here."
In the course of this article it stated :
A plea for an immediate cease fire in Korea was drafted yesterday by about
170 niidwestern men and women gathered in the Theater Guild Building, 107
East Lawrence Avenue in a "Save Our Sons" assembly.
Is that a correct statement as to the representation of midwestern
men and women at the founding convention ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a couple of questions con-
cerning this letter ?
Mr. Doyle. Yes, Mr. Kearney.
Mr. Kearney. Tliis letter that was produced a moment ago, ad-
dressed to Mr. Clyde Doyle, House of Representatives, Wasliington,
D. C, I received exactly the same letter.
Did you receive my answer ?
There is no need of signaling, Mr. Counsel.
COIilMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5115
Mr. FoRER. I am not signaling. If I want to talk to the witness
I will talk to her.
Mr. Kearney. I can see the motion on the arm. I am not blind.
Mr. Forer. Are you checking on my consulting with the witness?
Mr. Kearney. Not at all.
Mr. Forer. Then what is the problem ?
Mr. Kearney. You are signaling.
Mr. Forer. I don't understand you.
Mr. Kearney. Would the witness answer the question ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. You refuse to answer as to whether you got an an-
swer from me or not ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. You are taking the fifth amendment on receiving an
answer from me to this letter allegedly written by you. How could
you incriminate yourself ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse on the same grounds.
Mr. Kearney. All right.
You say in this letter, or state in this letter :
Save Our Sons Committee was as American as the Declaration of Inde-
pendence and the Constitution of the United States.
Is that correct ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. Do you mean to say that by making a statement
"Save Our Sons Committee was as American as the Declaration of
Independence and the Constitution of the United States," by your
answering you may incriminate yourself in a criminal action?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. Is it true, as far as the statement in this letter is
concerned. [Reading:]
We issued a call to an assembly in Springfield on October 25, 1952.
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney (reading) :
We asked the radio stations to announce the meeting.
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney (reading) :
We got from the newspapers lists of the prisoners of war from Illinois, Wis-
consin, Indiana, Iowa, and Missouri with their home addresses.
^Irs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney (reading) :
We sent to the mothers and fathers of these prisoners announcements of the
meeting, about 3,000 of them.
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
JSIr. Kearney. In other words, were you chairman of this so-called
Save Our Sons Committee ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. Do you know anything about Save Our Sons Com-
mittee?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. In other words, I take it from your answers that this
committee is just as phony as your testimony here this morning.
5116 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. FoRER. Is that a question or an accusation ?
Mr. Kearney. That is an accusation, if you want to make it that
way.
Mr. FoRER. Then the witness doesn't have to answer.
Mr. Kearney. Then I will ask her that question.
Mr. FoRER. I don't see how you can expect a witness to answer a
question as vague and loaded as that.
Mr. Kearney. She can answer all these questions if she feels like it.
Mr. Forer. Sure, if she feels like it she will claim the constitutional
privilege. I don't see how you can answer a question that has just a
suggestive meaning.
Mr. Kearney. Were you active at all in this Save Our Sons
organization ?
Sirs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. Did you hear the testimony of Mrs. Mitterer yes-
terday ?
( The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. Yes ; I was here.
Mr, Kearney. Do you know Mrs. INIitterer ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. As a matter of fact, Mrs. Mitterer was secretary-
treasurer of this organization; was she not?
]\Irs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. You were the cochairman, or chairman of the com-
mittee. Is that not a fact ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney, Is it true that you made known to everybody your
activities for peace and your views on it?
Mrs. GowGiEL, I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. Are you an advocate of peace regardless of your ac-
tivities with the Save Our Sons Committee?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I would like to hear the question again.
Mr, Kearney, Will the reporter repeat it, please?
Mrs, Gowgiel. If you ask whether I believe in peace, my answer
is "Yes."
Mr, Kearney. Do you know of anybody that does not in this coun-
try of ours ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. That does what ?
Mr. Kearney. You understand English ; do you not ?
Mrs, Gowgiel, Repeat the question,
Mr, Kearney, Do you know of anybody who does not believe in
peace in this country of ours ?
(The witness confers with her counsel,)
Mr. Kearney. Surely that does not take active consultation with
your attorney to answer that question.
Mr. Forer. I think it is a hard question to answer.
Mr. Kearney. A hard question to answer ?
Mr, Forer, Yes, because it is an ambiguous, vague question. What
do you mean, do you know — everybody says they are in favor of peace.
But then what is peace?
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5117
Mr. IvEARNEY. Let US put it this way : Does the witness know of
anybody in this country that is in favor of a war?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. No; I don't know.
Mr. Kearney. Now we are getting somewhere.
Mr. Doyle. Mr. Kearney, and Counsel, it will be necessary for the
committee to recess for about 15 minutes. There is another major
committee that has a matter before it which I have to participate in
for about 15 minutes. I am sorry to cause this inconvenience.
The committee will stand in recess for about 15 minutes.
(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken, tliere being present at the
time of taking the recess Representatives Doyle and Kearney.)
(The subcommittee was reconvened at the expiration of the recess,
there being present Representatives Walter and Kearney.)
The Chairman-. The committee will be in order.
The subcommittee will be reconstituted, consisting of Messrs. Kear-
ney, Doyle, and myself.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Gowgiel, will you return to the witness stand,
please?
Mrs. Gowgiel, were you acquainted with an organization in St.
Louis by the name of St. Louis Emergency Defense Committee?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. Not that I know of.
Mr. Ta\-enner. Well, were you acquainted with an individual in
St. Louis by the name of Brockman Schumacher, S-c-h-u-m-a-c-h-er?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gov.'GiEL. The name is not familiar to me.
Mr. Tamlnner. Mr. Schumacher, according to testimony we re-
ceived in St. Louis on June 5 of this year, was chairman of the St.
Louis Emergency Defeixse Committee, a committee formed in St.
Louis for the defense of certain persons being prosecuted under the
Smith Act in St. Loius.
Does that refresh your recollection ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. No; it doesn't.
]SIr. Tavenner. Do you recall whether there were present at the
founding convention on October 25, 1952, a representation from St.
Louis?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. FoRER. You mean the founding convention of the Save Our
Sons ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. According to the testimony received by this com-
mittee in St. Louis it was tlie purpose of this defense committee to
raise funds for the defense of defendants in the Smith Act case there,
and for propaganda purposes.
Do you know, can you tell us whether or not the Save Our Sons
Committee Avas requested to make any contribution of funds or serv-
ices to the defense of the Smith Act defendants in St. Louis?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I have no knowledge.
]Mr. Tavenner. You have no knowledge.
5118 COMMUNIST PROPAG.^NDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr, Schumacher was a witness before the committee and he was
asked, this question :
Were you interested, Mr. Schumacher, in the forming of an organization
designed to circulate propaganda regarding the return of our soldiers in Korea
in 1952 when this country was in the middle of its fight in Korea?
Mr. Schumacher refused to answer the question, asserting as the
reason for it the fifth amendment.
And then this question was asked him :
Did you suggest to Mr. Cortor that he attend a founding meeting of the Save
Our Sons Committee in Springfield, 111., in 1952?
Mr. Schumacher again refused to answer.
Do 3'ou recall whether Mr. Cortor did attend the founding con-
vention?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. The name Cortor is not familiar to me.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Mr. Lou Kiminel,
K-i-m-m-e-1, of St. Louis or near St. Louis?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. You refuse to answer.
Was Mr. Lou Kimmel known to you as a member of the Communist
Party ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Kimmel elected or appointed at the found-
ing convention as one of the continuation committee of the Save Our
Sons Committee ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
]Sir. Tavenner. Was he requested to go back to Missouri to form
chapters or groups of your organization ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Cortor was also a witness at St. Louis — Mr.
William W. Cortor. Unlike Mr. Schumacher, Mr. Cortor testified
that he had been a member of the Communist Party, that he was under
employment by the Federal Bureau of Investigation during a part of
his Communist Party membership and that he had been assigned by
the Communist Party to work with the St. Louis Emergency Defense,
and he worked right under Mr. Schumacher.
Mr. Cortor advised the committee that Mr. Schumacher directed
that he go to St. Louis to attend the founding convention of the Save
Our Sons Committee.
Mr. Forer. You mean Springfield.
Mr. Tavenner. I mean at Springfield, 111.
He further testified that Mr. Lou Kimmel, also a Communist Party
member in St. Louis, also attended that convention. There were
other members of the Communist Party who, he said, did attend but he
could not recall their names.
Do you know whether any organizational work was done by Save
Our Sons Committee in St. Louis after the organization was founded
on October 25, 1952 ?
(Representative Clyde Doyle returned to the hearing room at this
point.)
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5119
(]Members of the committee present : Eepresentatives Walter, Doyle,
and Kearney.)
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Gowgiel, I have before me a pliotostatic copy
of the national codirectors' report of the American Peace Crusade,
national policy meeting at Chicago in March 1953. I want to read
to you as a basis for questioning one paragraph of this report.
According to this report of the ximerican Peace Crusade we find this
paragraph :
The activities for which we do not claim credit, l)ut which we helped to
stimulate, include the three great inter-faith meetings for peace in Korea held
in New York in the fall of 1951, the statement of the 52 prominent Americans,
including our Honorary co-Chairman, Professor Anton Carlson, calling for nego-
tiations between the major powers for world peace, the statement of the 4(55
Americans, which included Dr. Emily Balch Greene, Nobel Prize Winner, calling
for a cease-tire in Korea, the Easter-Passover prayer, issued by a group of
leading clergymen and rabbis fiom the various denominations. One of the
most significant developments, which APC forces have supported, has been the
formation of the Save Our Sons Committee. The Save Our Sons Committee
organized in Illinois during the election campaign by parents of men now
serving in Korea or in prisoner of war camps, has today developed a movement
which reaches into seventeen other States.
Now, that date is March 1953, just about 6 months after the forma-
tion of Save Our 3ous Committee. Will you tell tlie committee,
please, what 17 States by that time had been organized by Save Our
Sons Committee?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
;Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenxer. You refuse to answer?
JNIrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer.
ISIr. Ta\^nner. On the grounds that to do so might tend to incrimi-
nate 370U. Is that what you mean ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. Yes; based on my privilege under the fifth
amendment.
The Chairman. Were you a member of the American Peace
Crusade?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
]\Irs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. In other words, I understand you to take the posi-
tion that if you admitted you were a member of the American Peace
Crusade you might be prosecuted criminally. Is that it?
(Tlie witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. That is a possibility.
The Chairman. That is because the American Peace Crusade is a
Communist organization; is it not?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. Xo; I just wish to claim my constitutional rights.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Czarnowski testified here yesterday that you
were an active participant in the work of the American Peace Crusade
and made regular reports to the Argo branch of the Communist Party
regarding the activities of the American Peace Crusade. And when
you became active in Save Our Sons Committee he relieved you from
that responsibility in the American Peace Crusade and took over
your duties.
5120 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONER 3
Is that correct? I mean by that, was Mr. Czarnowski testifying
truthfully insofar as it affects you?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, in how many
States of the Union the organization did finally become active?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
( Members of the committee present : Representatives Walter, Doyle,
and Kearney.)
Mr. Tavt:nner. Has the work of your organization been nation-
wide or has it been confined merely to the 17 States that exist according
to the American Peace Crusade report of March 1953?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. Could the witness speak up? I cannot hear you.
I cannot hear your answer. Would you speak a little louder?
Mrs. GowGiEL. Do you want me to repeat the statement?
Mr. Kearney. No, I would like to have you speak a little louder. I
cannot hear you.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee has procured a photostatic copy of
an application for a post office box at Argo, 111. I hand you a photo-
static copy of such an application mr.rked "Gowgiel Exhibit No. 3".
On it appears signature of applicant, and the name in handwriting, in
ink handwriting is "Florence Gowgiel."
Before I hand it to you, let me ask you, what was your occupation,
yonr business in August of 1952?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. A beautician, at that time.
Mr. Tavenner. You operated a beauty shop?
Mrs. Gowgiel. Yes.
'Mr. Tavknner. What was your residence in August of 1952?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. 6159 Archer Road, Argo.
Mr. Tavenner. Did yon live at 5554 Archer Road?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. For a little while.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you live there at any time in August of 1952?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I don't know, exactly. I probably did.^
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Was that a residence address or was it a business
address?
Mrs. Gowgiel. Residence.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you this application and ask you to examine
it, please, and state whether or not the name of the applicant ap-
pearing there is Florence Gowgiel.
(Document handed to the witness.)
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. It is?
Mr. FoRER. That is what it says.
Mrs. Gowgiel. That is what it says.
Mr. Ta\t5nner. Is the business of the applicant designated as a
beauty shop ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. No.
Mr. Forer. Yes.
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AJMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5121
Mrs. GowGiEL, Wliere?
Mr. FoRER. Here.
Mrs. GowGiEL. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat address is given?
Mi's. GowGiEL. 5554 Archer Eoad, Summit.
Mr. Taa'enner. Did you sign the name Florence Gowgiel on the
application ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Will 3^ou look at the foot of the application and
see whether or not box 95 was assigned to the applicant?
Mrs. Gowgiel. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner, 95 was j'our post office box, wag it not ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer in evidence "Gowciel Exhibit No.
3."
The Chairman. So ordered.
'r^.l^' APPLICATION FOR POST-OFFICE BOX
Gowgiel Exhibit No. 3
<-^
The undersigned hereby applie* for the tsw i>/ s b<ii in the {xiBf offirr at . ^/C/ft.t4a^.
_ . _.. . vy-- and ap'eee
to c |'l\ with thr |H>Bta! regulations and ruled relative In the renting and use of poaf-office boxes.
If ihc I MIX i4 rented for a curporation. tlie appliiant should write on the lines below the name of I lie
roriMiratixii; if for a firm, the name of the firm and ihc full rume of each of its members whoee mail is
to lie plai ril in the box.
_ ;...(r-LOREWC£ GOWGJELl
.Signature of applicant ....>^;,A:,-fi'~'2je^i^->--'t-^^ ^ ,/l!l?^/^>T?^>.^ '*t*rr:4^.
Character of biuii
Hiisiness addreas .
Kesii
Befr
Character of biuincM C^.'i^z-^rr-r^ « a fL- ^^-r^:-«'~'Or?.
HesidcDce addreaa ..^..^.£..*r.~....^T*rtr>^<frr^'^:^^^..i^ *-rr^ .^.
No. .^..™_ ..., ^..JfO^P^'<^Jt^^
Assigned Box N
^
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Gowgiel, in what banks were the funds of
the Save Our Sons Committee deposited ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Ta\^enner. Were funds always deposited in the name of the
committee or were they deposited in your jjersonal name?
Mrs. GowGEEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. It has been noted from material that we have ex-
amined, and some of which will be introduced in evidence before we
complete this hearing, that many solicitations were made for funds.
Did 3^ou put those funds in your personal account?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. No.
Mr. Tavenner. You did not.
Where did you put them ?
5122 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
(The witness confers with her counseL)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavennee. In whose account did you put them ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Our investigation has been successful in showing,
or in finding only one account, that is at the Argo State Bank, and
it was infinitesimal in amount. It was opened on October 80, 1952,
by a $35 deposit. It was closed on October 30, 1953, and only $134
was deposited to that account.
Does that represent, that $134 represent, all the money that you
received as a result of the solicitations made for Save Our Sons
Committee ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Our investigation discloses that there were hun-
dreds of letters mailed by Save Our Sons Committee from Argo per
week from 1952 up until a recent date. Where did you obtain the
funds for the mailing of tliat material ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Ta^tjnner. Where did you receive the funds for the stationery
used '^
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Taven^ner. We have one statement here which you made to a
committee member in a letter just a few days ago in which you said
that you had gotten in contact with 3,000 parents of men serving in
Korea. Who financed the project?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Kearney. I think, Mr. Counsel, I would like to call attention
to counsel of the committee that the witness refused to acknowledge
writing that letter.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, she did. She would not answer a question
as to whether slie had written the letter previously mentioned by
Mr. Doyle as having been received by him, which letter bears the
name of Save Our Sons Committee, bears her name as its chairman,
and bears her address as the address from which the letter was sent.
So I am asking now, who defrayed the expenses for the purchase
of the stationery and the mailing of all these letters ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make an observation
at this point. From the testimony of the witness, I think the answers
she has given the committee are as phony as a three-dollar bill.
Mr. Tavenner. The committee staff has been successful in obtain-
ing from various sources, in some instances, parents of persons serving
overseas in Korea, copies of various issues of a bulletin entitled "Save
Our Sons," which has at the top of it the picture of an Army cemetery
with crosses, and it has the statement ""Wliile row on row the crosses
grow."
(Representative Francis E. Walter left the hearing room at this
point. Members of the committee present: Representatives Doyle
and Kearney.)
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of issue 1, pageis 1
and 2, issue 3, issue 4, and issue 8. Will you examine them, please,
and state whether or not they were prepared and published by you ?
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5123
(Documents handed to the witness.)
(The witness confers with her counseL)
Mrs. GowGiEf.. I refuse to answer under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer for identification
purposes only the several issues of Save Our Sons as one document,
marked "Gowgiel Exhibit No. 4." .
Mr. Doyle. They are so received and so marked.
(The documents referred to were marked "Gowgiel Exhibit No. 4"
for identification.)
Mr. Tavenner. I call your attention to issue No. 4 to which is at-
tached an envelope and I advise you that we procured this issue from
the person to whom this envelope is addressed, Mr. and Mrs. V. R.
Slater, 1030 Harris, Huntington, Ind. It appears from our investi-
gation that Mr. and Mrs. Slater are the parents of a colonel who served
in Korea and was a prisoner of war.
Did you address that particular envelope to the parents of Colonel
Slater?
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted in issue 4 3'ou quoted from letters al-
legedly received from various prisoners of war in Korea. One I see
is from Pvt. Bobby R. Degrew, D-e-g-r-e-w.
Will you tell the committee, please, how you obtained this letter
from Private Degrew ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you in correspondence with him while he was
a prisoner of war ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you give the information that he
was a POW, Camp DPRK, whatever that means. When the staff
obtained from Mr. and Mrs. Slater the document which I have shown
you, there was also included a letter under date of February 17, 1953,
allegedly written by Dale E. Jones, prisoner-of-war camp, North
Korea, and at the bottom of the letter you have "circulated by SOS,
Box 95, Argo, 111."
Will you examine that letter, please, and state how you procured
that letter from a prisoner of war in Korea '^
(Document handed to the witness.)
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. You did disseminate; you sent that letter every
place that you thought you could serve any purpose by sending it,
did you not? Is that not right?
(The witness confei^ with her counsel.)
Mi-s. Gowgiel. I refuse on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. I move that we adjourn until 2 o'clock.
Mr. Doyle. Then the committee will stand in recess imtil 2 as the
House is just convening at 12. It is just a minute or two before 12
now.
The witness will please return. All witnesses that are subpenaed
today will please return.
5124 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
(Whereupon, at 11 : 55 a. m., the subcommittee was recessed to be
reconvened at 2 p. m., this same day, there being present at the time
of taking the recess Representatives Doyle and Kearney.)
ATTERNOON SESSION, TUESDAY, JUNE 19, 1956
(The subcommittee was reconvened at 2 p. m. at the expiration of
the recess, there being present Representatives Francis E. Walter
(chairman) , Clyde Doyle, and Bernard W. Kearney.)
The Chairman. The committee will be in order.
Call your witness, Mr. Tavenner.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Gowgiel.
TESTIMONY OF FLORENCE GOWGIEL, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JOSEPH FOEER— Resumed
Mrs. Gowgiel, you stated in one of the letters to the Congressmen,
that you obtained a list of prisoners of war, and their addresses, from
newspapers. From what newspapers did you obtain them?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you subscribe to the China Monthly Review, of
which John Powell was editor?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. No.
Mr. Tavenner. What publications did you receive from Red China ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I never received any.
Mr. Tavenner. Our previous investigations disclosed that the Na-
tional Guardian seemed to have access to the list of prisoners of war
before they were made public by the War Department, or any official
group. Did you obtain a list of the prisoners of war from the National
Guardian, or from its editor, Cedric Belfrage?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you correspond with Mr. Cedric Belfrage or
the National Guardian regarding prisoners of war in Korea?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I don't think so.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, by that, you are uncertain? You mean you
are uncertain whether you corresponded with them in ie<j,ccia to
prisoners of war ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I don't remember doing anything like that.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you receive information relating to pris-
oners of war from the Continent of Europe?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I don't remember ever receiving any information.
Mr. Tavenner. From what source did you receive information relat-
ing to prisoners of war in Korea ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. Did you receive it from the Commimist Party in
this country ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. No.
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5125
Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you receive information from the daily
press, relating to the prisoners of war to whom you wrote, or their
families?
Mr. FoRER. Does that include reading about it ? Did you say from
prisoners to whom she wrote ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, at this point I would like to call 2
other witnesses, and I would like for this witness to step down until
I finish with those 2, and we will then recall her.
The Chairman. All right. You may call those witnesses.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. If you will step aside, please ?
(Witness temporarily excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Jones?
Mr. Jones, will you come forward, please, sir ?
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, please, Mr. Jones?
Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Jones. I do.
TESTIMONY OF DALE E. JONES
Mr. Ta\t:nner. "What is your name, please ?
Mr. Jones. Dale E. Jones.
Mr. Tavenner. Dale E. Jones?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Jones ?
Mr. Jones. On February 5, 1932, in luka. 111.
Mr. Tavenner. How far is luka. 111., from Argo, 111.?
Mr. Jones. I would say approximately 300 miles.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you serve in the Armed Forces of the United
States?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. When did you enter the service ?
Mr. Jones. May 9, 1949.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Will you tell the committee, please, when you went
to Korea, if you did ?
Mr. Jones. September 1950.
Mr. Tavenner. What outfit were you in?
Mr. Jones. 7th Infantry Division.
Mr. Tavenner. Tth Infantry?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell the committee where you landed in
Korea for the first time ?
Mr. Jones. Inchon.
Mr. Tav^enner. You were in the Inchon landing ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you then engage in military operations north
of the 38th parallel?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. During the period of your service were you
captured ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir ; I was.
5126 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. Tavenner. Were you captured by the North Koreans or the
Chinese ?
Mr. Jones. Chinese.
Mr. Tavenner. Chinese. What was the phxce of your capture ?
Mr. Jones. It was Changsong Reservoir in North Korea.
Mr. Tavenner. You were in the fighting for that reservoir ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the approximate date of your capture ?
Mr. Jones. November 29, 1950.
Mr. Tavenner. That was the first appearance of the Chinese Com-
munists in the war, I believe, was it not ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir ; about that.
Mr. Tavenner. Where were you taken, and just what happened
after you were taken prisoner ?
Mr. Jones. Well, I was taken from the reser^^oir up to Camp 1, into
North Korea by the Yalu River.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you march up?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did it take ?
Mr. Jones. I would say it took about better than a month. Well,
we got in that camp about in March of 1951 ; so it took longer than a
month to get up to that camp.
Mr. Tavenner. That was Camp No. 1 ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where that was located ?
Mr. Jones. I can't remember the name of the town, the village that
it was in. It was something like Changsong, or something like that.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it south of the Yalu River ?
Mr. Jones. Yes ; south of it.
Mr. Tavenner. Southeast, I believe, of the Yalu River ?
Mr. Jones. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a prisoner there ?
Mr. Jones. Two years and eight months.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, just how the
Chinese Communists endeavored to indoctrinate you and other mem-
bers of the Armed Forces of the United States who were prisoners of
war?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner, Just begin at the beginning and tell us as much as
you can recall about it.
Mr. Jones. Well, the first thing they done, they started to bring
these articles on papers that were wrote on it, and they would bring
them to us, and have us to read them, and make us discuss them among
ourselves, and ask each other questions, and like that, on papers, the
Shanghai News.
Mr. Taa^nner. Shanghai News. Do you recall a paper known as
China Monthly Review ?
Mr. Jones. Yes ; I believe I do.
Mr. Tavenner. You were given these things to read and study ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, then, was any other form of instruction given
you in Communist principles ?
Mr. Jones. Yes. Well, they gave us lectures on them, too. They
would get us all in a group and give us lectures on them. Then, after
COMIMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5127
they would give us the lectures, they would send us back to our rooms,
and there they would make us discuss them.
Mr. Tavenner. Did they send Coimnunist Party leaders or officers
there to conduct these courses and direct you in the study ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. About how many hours a day were you required to
engage in study of that type ?
Mr. Jones. I would say from 2 to 4 hours a day they would give
us that.
Mr. Tavenner. How many days a week ?
Mr. Jones. Five days a week, or six days a week, pardon me.
Mr. Tavenner. You mean all but 1 day ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Was that 1 day, a Sunday when you were not re-
quired to do that work?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; it was.
Mr. Tavenner. Over how long a period did that type of instruc-
tion continue ?
Mr. Jones. Well, it went on all the time I was there, for 2 years
and 8 months, from 1951 until 1953.
Mr. Ta\^nner. As near as you can tell, what were they endeavoring
to teach you.
Mr. Jones. Well, they wanted us to believe in their ways, commu-
nism and Marxism, and wanted us to go against our Government and
to sign treaties and all that, to enable the war to come to an end, and
so we could get home sooner.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your edu-
cational training has been ? How much schooling have you had ?
Mr. Jones. I have 8 yeare of grade school.
Mr. Tavenner. Eight years of grade school?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, during the period of your captivity, did you
at any time hear of an organization known as Save Our Sons Com-
mittee ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir ; I did.
Mr. Tavenner. Tell the committee how you first learned of that
organization?
Mr. Jones. Well, me and another boy in the camp, we got into a
little scrap. So the Chinese caught us and took us down to their
headquarters and there they criticized us and they told us that we
would be punished for fighting amongst the other POW's. So they
sent us back to our rooms, then, and I was called back down and the
Chinese had a petition there that was to do with the Save Our Sons
Committee, and they asked me if I would sign it, and if I did, well,
they would go a little easier on their punishment.
So I signed my name to it, and they sent me back to my room and
then I got to thinking it over, and I was kind of worried about it.
So I told some of the guys about me signing it, and how I come to
sign it. So I got worried about it and so I went back down there and
told them to take my name off. So they scratched through it.
Mr. Ta\^nner. They scratched through it. But did they remove
your name from the petition ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir ; I couldn't say that they removed it.
Mr. TA^^:NNER. They scratched through it ?
5128 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir ; I saw them do that.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall what was on this petition ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir; I can't. All I know it was just a petition to
do with the Save Our Sons Committee. That is all I know.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, you went back to your squad room and talked
to some others about what you had done, and that you were dissatisfied
about it ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you reported to your Communist captors
about that?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir ; I was.
Mr. Tavenner. What happened as a result of it ?
Mr. Jones. Well, they came and got me, the Chinese did, and took
me up to their regimental headquarters, and there they put me in a
room by myself. It was a room with no heat. And they kept me in
there practically all night long and made me write a self-criticism
saying that they didn't tell me to sign that and that they wouldn't
go easier on my punishment if I did sign it, and so I wrote the self-
criticism and then they told me that they were going to make me read
it before the whole group of POW's. But somehow they never did
do that.
Mr. Tavenner. You say they put you in a room by yourself ? Was
that a form of punishment that was given to you and other prisoners
of war who refused to do what you were told.
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir ; that was one way.
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat was the punislunent about being put in a
room by yourself ?
Mr. Jones. Well, they just put you in there, with no heat and left
you in there by yourself. And you get kind of cold staying in a room.
Mr. Tavenner. How cold was it at the time that you were put in
there for punishment ?
Mr. Jones. Well, it was in the wintertime, and it gets about 30
below there, sometimes. It was pretty darned cold.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you think it was about that cold when you were
put there?
Mr. Jones. I would say it was close to it.
Mr. Tavenner. How long were you kept there ?
Mr. Jones. About all night long — all one night.
Mr. Ta^tenner. Was that the first time you ever heard of Save Our
Sons Committee?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Was anything else said about Save Our Sons by
the Chinese at any later time?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir. They would mention it every so often in their
lectures that they gave us. They would mention the Save Our Sons
Committee. They would mention Mrs. Florence Gowgiel, they would
mention her name. And they would tell us that her — Mrs. Gowgiel —
and many others in the United States were fighting to get world peace
in the Korean war, to get the American troops home quicker. And
they would suggest that we follow their steps and do our part, too,
by signing petitions.
Mr. Tavenner. To sign petitions, as prisoners of war, to be sent
back to the United States?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5129
Mr. Tavenner. Now, did they explain to you how signing these
petitions would help end the war and get you boys home ?
Mr. Jones. Well, they told us if there was enough people got to-
gether and would go against the President or the Government and
put pressure on them, why they would have to stop the war in Korea,
and that way it would make us return home quicker.
Mr. Tavenner. And that is the reason they wanted you to sign this
petition ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Of the Save Our Sons group ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall how many names were on this peti-
tion when you signed it ?
Mr. Jones. No; I can't say that I do know how many there was.
There were a few on there, but I can't recall just how many there were.
Mr. Tavenner. You have given to me the names of some prisoners
of war that you know signed such petitions, haven't you ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. But I do not want to ask you in public session any-
thing about that until the staff has had some opportunity to make an
investigation.
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell us what means were used by the Com-
munists to get prisoners of war to unite in this program to try to influ-
ence people back home to bring an end to the war? I mean would
boys just go up voluntarily and sign these petitions, or was any pres-
sure brought to bear on them ? Just how did they maneuver it ?
Mr. Jones. Well, they used to ask us to do things like that. They
told us that we weren't forced to do nothing like that, but we were in no
position to refuse.
Mr. TA^^CNNER. You mean they told you that you were in no posi-
tion to refuse ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by that ?
Mr. Jones. Well, it meant just that — if you did go against them and
refused them a lot of times, be reactionary toward them, you might
just some night disappear out of the camp, like a lot of boys did.
Mr. Tavenner. You say boys just disappeared ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. From the camp ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. The result was that many of you young men really
felt that you were not in a position to refuse them ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir ; we did.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever learn what happened to any of those
who disappeared ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Was any explanation ever made to you as to what
happened to them ?
Mr. Jones. Well, sometimes they would tell us that they was took
to a reactionary camp, and sometimes they wouldn't tell us nothing
about none of them.
Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by a reactionary camp ?
5130 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. Jones. They called it a place where the POWs that was really
hard toward the Chinese Communists would be taken to a certain
camp, a reactionary camp, they called it, and put on hard labor, they
called it. There they would try to reform them from being reaction-
aries. But nobody knowed where that camp was at or never had saw it.
Mr. Kearney. You laiew some of these boys personally that dis-
appeared ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kearney. Since your return from prison camp have you ever
heard of any of these boys being alive ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir ; I haven't.
Mr. TA^^NNER. I might say, Mr. Chairman, the witness has given
me the names of several people, but that has just been within the past
24 or 48 hours, and we have not had an opportunity to make any
investigation.
Now, were those who conducted this camp No. 1 where you were
Chinese or Koreans ?
Mr. Jones. Chinese.
Mr. Tavenner. Did they tell you anything about, or try to get you
to believe that the American troops or the American forces were using
germ warfare against them ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir ; they did.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Did they ever ask you to write anything back to the
United States about that ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You say the Save Our Sons Committee and Mrs.
Florence Gowgiel were mentioned in the course of these lectures given
to your group by Chinese officers ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
]SIr. Tavenner. Can you tell us how these Communist officers learned
of the existence of Save Our Sons Committee ?
Mr. Jones. Well, I don't know exactly how — well, I did know that
she Avrote to a number of POWs that were in the camp.
Mr. Tavenner. How do you know that ?
Mr. Jones. Well, when they would get the letters from Mrs. Gowgiel
the Chinese would have them to read the letters over a loudspeaker
so all the rest of the POW's could hear it.
Mr. Tavenner. So this was a campaign then among your group
based upon the letters from Mrs. Gowgiel ?
Mr. Jones, Yes, sir ; I guess so.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever hear from Mrs. Gowgiel ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir : I received one letter from her.
Mr. Ta\t.nner. Tell us, please, the circumstances under which you
received it?
Mr. Jones. Well, the Chinese called me to their lieadquarters one
day and told me I had a letter. I thought maybe I had got a letter
from liome. Occasionally there were just maybe 1 or 2 letters come
in, and they would call the individual to headquarters and give it to
him. But when they handed the letter to me it was from Mrs. Gowgiel,
the Save Our Sons Committee.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, when they handed you the letter, what did
you do ?
Mr. Jones. Well, I started to walk out with it, but they wanted me
to read it right there in their headquarters. So I did.
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5131
Mr, Tavenner. Then what happened ?
Mr. Jones. Well, then they asked me to read it over the loudspeaker
so the rest of the POW's could hear it. And I refused and wouldn't
do it, told them I didn't want to. So they never asked me to no more.
Mr, Tavenner. But you say there were a number of instances in
which those letters were read ?
Mr. ,IoNES. Yes, sir,
Mr, Tavenner. Can you recall now anything that was in the letter?
Mr. Jones. Vf ell, it said — Mrs. Gowgiel put it to me that she and
many others like her were fighting for the end of the Korean war,
and they wanted to bring us home, back to our home, back to our
families quicker, and wanted me and others to do our part in ending
the Korean war.
Mr. Tavenner. Did they say how you should do your part in ending
the Korean war, when you were prisoners of war in Korea?
Mr. Jones. Well, by speaking out, and writing petitions, and get-
ting petitions signed, you know, drawing up petitions our own self
and getting otlier POAV's to sign tliem and send them in to Washing-
ton, or the Govermnent.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you at any time write a letter to Mi's.
Gowgiel ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir ; I never did.
Mr. Tavenner. You never wrote a letter ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, the committee, in the course of its investiga-
tion has secured an envelope from Mr. and Mrs. V. E. Slater, at Hunt-
ington, Ind., which contained issue No. 4 of Save Our Sons and a
letter bearing date of February 17, 1953, at the end of which is typed
"Dale E. Jones, POW Camp, North Korea, circulated by SOS Box
95, Argo, 111."
Our investigation shows that Mr. and Mrs. Slater's son was a colonel
and had been captured and was a prisoner of war at that time.
Now, I am going to hand you this letter and ask you to read it into
the record.
( Document handed to the witness. )
Mr. Jones (reading) :
Dear Mrs. Gowgiel: I am taking the great pleasure to write you that even
we, who are over 5,000 miles away from home, know about the great work
you have started in the United States. It is my belief that the Save Our Sons
Committee will be a great help to us POW's, and to the front-line troops who
are fighting over here in Korea. It will also help bring about an early conclusion
to the Korean question. I, for one, and I know the other POW's here with me,
wholeheartedly support and encourage you to carry on your great work in the
future.
You see, Mrs. Gowgiel, I am also from the State of Illinois and it makes me
feel 100 percent better to know people like you are working for peace in my State,
as well as in the rest of the States and countries over the world. I am also doing
what I can, along with the other POW's, to bring about an early conclusion to
this Korean war. Although I know it is such a small amount right at the present
time, but we all know the peace movements in the States are growing stronger
every day. So. therefore, we are hoping for the same thing over here in the POW
camps. Once that all the people united together, then we can have everlasting
world peace.
I have read in the papers many times about the Save Our Sons Committee and
also about your son-in-law's terrible incident. I deeply sympathize with him,
for I know the horrible exi>erience he must have gone through.
It is up to you, Mrs. Gowgiel, to me and the other peace-loving people of the
world to put a stop to this awful bloodshed over here in Korea. I am certain
5132 COMAIUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
that the majority of the American people know that this war over here in Korea
is useless and inhuman. Thousands of people are dying just because there are
a few individuals who want a little more for themselves. They even kill their
own people in order to make it that way. That is why the American people must
urge President Eisenhower to keep his promise and put an end to the Korean
war, peacefully. If the people of America don't join together and force him to
do so, it might be extended into a third world war. You and I and millions of
other people of the world must prevent this.
The war over here in Korea could have been settled long ago if the American
side would show some sincerity in the peace talks. But they always put in some
unreasonable proposals, such as voluntary repatriation. You know, Mrs. Gow-
giel, no one wants to stay away from his own home and loved ones and not never
return to be with them again. That is what the American side keep saying about
the Korean and Chinese POW's. They are always talking about them instead
of about the American POW's and front-line troops. We want to return to our
loved ones very bad, even though we have always been treated with the best of
care. We never have a dull minute here in this camp, but we want to come home.
The Chinese volunteers are ready to have a cease fire right now and then talk
about repatriation of all POW's in order to save lives, but the other side says
"no" — the fighting must go on. That can plainly show who wants peace and who
doesn't. The Chinese people don't want to kill and cripple the American boys,
but they have no other choice. They are here to protect their own country from
being invaded.
So, Mrs. Gowgiel, it is up to all the peace-loving people of the world to make
more and more people see how they are being fooled by these handful of * * *
until the great day comes when war will be done away with and everlasting peace
the world over
Mr. Tavenner. Just a moment. The word that is not plainly writ-
ten there is "profiteers." May I see your copy a moment ?
No, it is "profit makers" — profit makers. The stencil was not very
clear.
Mr. Jones (continuing reading) :
are being fooled by these handful of profit makers until the great day comes
when war will be done away with and everlasting peace the world over.
So, once again we encourage you to carry on your great work in the future.
It will be a hard, bitter struggle, but peace will be ours in the end.
I would be more than glad to receive a letter from you letting me know how
you are coming along with your work. In the meantime I always will look for
the news about the SOS Committee in the papers. I also would appreciate very
much if you would contact my mother and tell her to join in with us. I am sure
she would be glad to help us.
I wish you all the best luck and wishes in your great work. Remember, peace
will be our victory.
Sincerely yours,
Pfc. Dale E. Jones,
POW Camp, North Korea.
Mr. Ta^^enner. You tell this committee you never wrote such a
letter?
Mr. Jones. No, sir ; I never.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you write to Mrs. Gowgiel at all ?
Mr. Jones. No.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you write that letter to anyone ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir ; I never.
Mr. Walter, "\\niat address is on that letter of Mrs. Gowgiel ?
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this letter was enclosed in an enve-
lope sent to Mr. and Mrs. V. R. Slater, and at the top of the envelope
in the lefthand margin is "Save Our Sons Committee, Box 95, Arso,
111." and the staff has presented testimony that box 95 was applied
for by Mrs. Gowgiel.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask, is that the envelope in which it was received
by those people in Illinois ?
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5133
Mr. Taat:xner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Doyle. That appears to be on a nameplate, an addresso<^raph
machine of some kind, does it not?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mr. DoTLE. Under what date is that envelope postmarked ?
Mr. Tavenner. June 26, 1953.
You say you have had eight grades in school ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. That is a well-written letter, and I doubt that it
could be composed in as good English as it is by a person who had
received no greater educational training than that.
Did you ever get anyone to write a letter for you to Mrs. Gowgiel?
Mr. Jones. No, sir. If I ever wrote, 1 would write it myself.
Mr. Tavenner. You didn't participate in any way in writing a
letter to Mrs. Gowgiel, or for her ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. After your return to your home, did you meet Mrs.
Gowgiel ?
Mv. Jones. No, sir ; I didn't.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether members of your family re-
ceived letters from her during the period you were a prisoner of war ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; my mother did. She told me. I don't know
about while I was in service, but I know she did after I came home,
because I saw them myself. They was from Mrs. Gowgiel, the Save
Our Sons Committee.
Mr. Tavenner. That is after you returned from Korea?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. What did you do with those letters ?
Mr. Jones. Destroyed them. We never — wouldn't even open them
up. I told my mother not to ever open them and read them, so she
didn't.
Mr. Tavenner. Why did you tell your mother not to open them and
read them?
Mr. Jones. Well, I knew it was no good, and I didn't want her to
read anything like that. I didn't want nothing to do with it.
I received some after I got home, too — 1 or 2, I don't remember
which, and I destroyed them also.
Mr. Tavenner. Now, did you receive any communication from Mrs.
Gowgiel after you were subpenaed to come here as a witness — ^you
or your mother?
Mr. Jones. My mother did.
Mr. Tavenner. Is that what she received?
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; it is.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to oflPer this document for identification
purposes only, and have it marked "Jones Exhibit No. 1."
(The document referred to was marked "Jones Exhibit No. 1"
for identification.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I will read the first paragraph.
This bears date, or rather, has the heading, "Save Our Sons." It
has the date April-May 1956.
The heading :
Can Talking Help Prevent War?
Recently, because of your, and my, work in SOS, I received an invitation to
attend the CJonference of the International Committee of Mothers. This confer-
5134 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
ence, in Lausanne, Switzerland, was attended by 62 delegates representing organ-
izations in 36 nations.
And then it continues to describe that meeting. And on the second
page of the document considerable space is given to her being called, to
Mrs. Gowgiel being called as a witness before this committee. And at
the bottom of it is a solicitation for funds for her defense and to carry
on the work of SOS.
Did your mother also receive this envelope and tlie document at-
tached to it?
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. May I have it, please ?
This envelope is addressed to Mrs. Jones, luka. 111. It was post-
marked in Berlin, West Germany. It is from the Permanent Interna-
tional Committee of Mothers, and there is attached to it a letter bear-
ing date of March 27, 1956, which I desire to offer for identification
purposes only, and ask it be marked "Jones Exhibit No. 2."
The Chairman. It will be so marked.
(The document referred to was marked "Jones Exhibit No. 2" for
identification.)
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how your mother's name was given
to that organization ?
Mr. Jones. Well, the only way I know that Mrs. Gowgiel could have
got it was after I was captured I wrote and asked my mother to
put my name and address of the POW camp in the newspapers, so
that I could receive letters from people here in the United States.
And I guess, no doubt she put her name and address in the paper,
too.
Mr. Tavenner. How long ago was it that you received that last
document ?
Just a moment. The postmark from Berlin is April 24, 1956 — or
April 16, 1956, 1 believe.
I believe that is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Any questions, Mr. Doyle ?
Mr. Doyle. No, sir.
The Chairman. Mr. Kearney ?
Mr. Kearney. I haven't any questions, Mr. Chairman, but I think it
should be on the record that there is no stigma attached whatsoever to
this young man's testifying here today.
The Chairman. Indeed not. He is continuing to do a very fine,
patriotic service to his country.
Thank you.
Mr. Ta\t3nner. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Spencer.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, please ?
Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Spencer. I do.
TESTIMONY OP ERDIS SPENCER
Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ?
Mr. Spencer. Erdis Spencer.
Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Spencer ?
CJOMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5135
Mr. Spencer. Bryan, Ky., November 13, 1928, 1 was born.
(Representative Francis E. Walter left the hearing room at this
point.)
Mr. Tavenner. And where?
Mr. Spencer. Bryan, Ky.
Mr. Ta VENNEK. Where do you now reside ?
Mr. Spencer. Summit, 111.
Mr. Tavenner. How far is Summit, 111., from Argo, 111. ?
Mr. Spencer. Just a matter of a few blocks. They adjoin each
other.
Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived at Summit ?
Mr. Spencer. Well, I have lived in and around Argo and Summit
since 1937.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Armed Forces ?
Mr. Spencer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. When were you inducted ?
Mr. Spencer. I enlisted in August 1950.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you serve in Korea ?
Mr. Spencer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. AVith what division ?
Mr. Spencer. 24th Infantry Division.
Mr. Ta\^nner. 24th Infantry Division. When did you join the
24th Infantry Division?
Mr. Spencer. I believe it was in January of 1951.
Mr. Tavenner. Of 1951. Can you give us the name of the place
where you joined it?
Mr. Spencer. No, sir — it was just south of the parallel in the central
part of South Korea. That is about all I know.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you take part in the advance to the 38th paral-
lel and beyond ?
Mr. Spencer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ta\tenner. Were you captured?
Mr. Spencer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you captured by the North Koreans or the
Chinese ?
Mr. Spencer. Chinese.
(Committee members present: Representatives Doyle and Kear-
ney.)
Mr. Tavenner. What was the place of your capture, or the front,
as nearly as you can describe it ?
Mr. Spencer. I think it was near a small place called Chingree.
It was approximately 20 miles north of the 38th parallel, the central
part of Korea.
Mr. Tavenner. When were you captured?
Mr. Spencer. April 22, 1951.
Mr. Tavenner. After you were captured, where were you taken?
Mr. Spencer. Well, we were taken a few miles behind the lines for
a few days. I was wounded. I couldn't walk so I stayed there a few
days, and we went on farther. And we kept joining larger gi^oups
of GI's until we came to this place they called Death Valley. We
stayed there for a week or so, maybe 2 weeks, something like that, and
started to the PW camp farther north.
Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat PW camp were you in ?
5136 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. Spencer. Camp 1.
Mr. Ta\^nner. That is the same camp that Mr. Jones was in ; is it?
Mr. Spencer. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with him while you
were in camp ?
Mr. Spencer. No.
Mr. Tavenner. About how many prisoners of war do you think
were in that camp ?
Mr. Spencer. Well, it varied. At one time I believe we had over
2,000, and at the end, I think there was around 1,200, maybe 1,600.
Mr. Tavenner. When were you released as a prisoner of war?
Mr. Spencer. In August of 1953.
Mr. Tavenner. During the period of time that you were a prisoner
of war, did you hear anything about an organization known as the
Save Our Sons Committee ?
Mr. Spencer. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Just tell the committee how you first learned about
it, and ail you know about it.
Mr. Spencer. Well, I first learned about it — the Chinese instructor
called me into his headquarters one day and asked me if I knew a
Mrs. Florence Gowgiel. And, you know, the name didn'f mean any-
thing to me at the time. So I said — well, you know, when he give
me the address and everything, then I remembered I had saw her be-
fore— several years, in fact, I had seen her around before I went in
the Army. By the address, I knew where it was at, because I only
lived a block or so from there myself. So that was the first I had heard
about it. And he asked me if I would like to write a letter to her,
and I said, "No, why should I write her a letter and what for?"
He didn't say much about it then, at that time. Then the following
day I saw in these newspapers, Shanghai News, I saw an article in
that nbout the Save Our Sons Committee being formed in Argo, 111.,
and then it was several articles in the Shanghai News periodically,
al'out the Save Our Sons Committee, what it was doing, and stuff like
that.
Mr. Tavenner. And were you called back again by the Chinese
officers ?
Mr. Spencer. Yes, sir. I was called the following day.
Mr. Tavenner. And Avhat did they tell you ?
Mr. Spencer. They wanted me to write her a letter, write to her.
Mr. Tavenner. Why did they say they wanted you to write to
her?
Mr. Spencer. They didn't say why. They just wanted me to write
her a letter.
Mr. Tavenner. Did they show you any documents, or anything
from the Save Our Sons Committee ?
Mr. Spencer. No.
Mr. Tavenner. That you can recall ?
Mr. Spencer. No, not that I know of.
Mr. Tavenner. Of course, by that time you knew what type of
work was being done by Save Our Sons Committee?
Mr. Spencer. Yes, I had a pretty good idea. I mean, it was the
fact that the Chinese were interested in it, and they were trying to
get us interested in it, why, it was only logical what type of organiza-
tion it was.
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5137
Mr. TA^^;NNER. Now, j^ou refused for 2 or 3 days to sign it?
Mr. Spencer. To write her a letter ; yes.
Mr. Tavenner. I mean, to write her a letter ?
Mr. Spencer. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. What induced you, or what led you to write the
letter?
Mr. Spencer. "Well, I had one personal reason, and then I wanted
the Chinks, the Chinese, to leave me alone, quit bothering me, quit
pestering me.
Mr. Tavenner. "We have found a letter which was reproduced in is-
sue No. 4, June 1953, of Save Our Sons, and was attributed to you.
By the way, how much schooling have you had ?
Mr. Spencer. Grammar school, 8 years.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Grammar school ^
Mr. Spencer. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you issue No. 4 of Save Our Sons and I will
ask you to read the letter appearing there into the record, please.
And then my next question will be : "What part or parts of that letter
you really wrote and what parts you didn't write.
Mr. Spencer (reading) :
I want to thank yon for yonr good work. Myself and other POWs are most
grateful to you for trying to end this war here in Korea. If everyone at
home would speak out their desire for peace, I'm sure it would be attained
at an early date. I have been a POW for almost 2 years and sure would like
to go home.
If you should wish to have this letter or any part of it published, go ahead ;
maybe it would help your campaign.
Ebdis Spencer, POW Camp.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. The last paragraph refers to publishing the letter,
doesn't it ?
Mr. Spencer. Yes.
Mr. Ta\tnner. You did actually write that in the letter, did you
not?
Mr. Spencer. Yes — part of it. The last, from where it says "Go
ahead, maybe it would help your campaign" — that I didn't write.
Mr. Tavenner. You did not write that ?
Mr. Spencer. No. But I wrote the first part — "if you should wish
to have this letter or any part of it published '' but not — I don't remem-
ber how I finished the original letter, but this isn't the way I finished
it, I know.
Mr. Ta%^nner. Now, were you told by the Communists to add
anything to the letter when you first completed it?
Mr. Spencer. Oh, yes. I wrote 3 or 4 letters before one was final —
the one that was sent.
Mr. Tavenner. You mean the type letter that you wrote wasn't
satisfactory to the Communist officers, and you had to keep writing it
until you got one that was ?
Mr. Spencer. Yes. The first couple — well, hardly any of it was
acceptable, so I wrote another one, and that was a little better, and I
finally wrote the last one, and that one was all riglit.
Mr. Tavennp:r. Tlien after you finished the last one did they tell
you what to add to it ? Did they tell you to add to the part about
publishing it ?
Mr. Spencer. I don't know. T don't believe so.
5138 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
I believe I put that in there — well, the letter was written a sentence
at a time, more or less, with the instructor right at hand. So I don't
remember just exactly how it was, you know. I believe probably that
it was dictated to me, more or less, but I won't say for sure, because
I don't remember.
(Representative Francis E. Walter returned to the hearing room
at this point.)
Mr. Tavenner. We heard here a little while ago about men being
sent to the reactionary camp if they were too much opposed to what
the Communists were trying to get you to do. Were the prisoners of
war known by the name of "reactionaries" at times?
Mr. Spencer. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Were there others who had a different name at
times ?
Mr. Spencer. Oh, yes. There was — the Pros, I guess — wait a
minute.
Mr. Tavenner. Progressives?
Mr. Spencer. Progressives, that is it — Progressives. And reaction-
aries, and there was, I guess you could say about four groups
altogether.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether other persons wrote similar
letters to Mrs. Gowgiel, or letters of any kind to her?
Mr. Spencer. Yes; there was other letters written.
Mr. Tavenner. Did others receive letters from her?
Mr. Spencer. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever receive a letter from her?
Mr. Spencer. Yes.
Mr. Tavenner. Can you recall now anything about it ?
Mr. Spencer. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Why did the Communist officers want you to sign
these letters? Did they ever say?
Mr. Spencer. You mean to write them?
]Mr. Tavenner. To write them.
Mr. Spencer. Well, to help the peace campaign, I guess, or help
Mi'S. Gowgiel's campaign.
Mr. Doyle. May I ask a question, Mr. Tavenner ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Mr. Doyle. Did you write these letters with pen and ink or pencil
or what? Did you write it in longhand or was it a printed form or
mimeographed form, or what?
Mr. Spencer. In longhand.
Mr. Doyle. Longhand ?
Mr. Spencer. Yes, sir. With pen when available, and if not, if
pens wasn't available, we used pencil.
Mr. Doyle. I beg your pardon?
Mr. Spencer. They were written in longhand with a pen — if you
could get hold of a fountain pen. Otherwise we wrote in pencil.
Mr. Doyle. Did they give you any sample to follow, any copy to
follow ?
Mr. Spencer. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. After your return to your home, did you hear any-
thing further from Mrs. Gowgiel ?
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5139
Mr. Spencer. Yes, sir; I received one post card saying to the effect
that she would like to get in touch with me, and it was a post-office
box number on it, on the post card.
Mr. Ta VENNER. Do you remember what post box number ?
Mr. Spencer. No, sir ; I don't.
Mr. Ta VENNER. Did you get in touch with her?
Mr. Spencer. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You have not had any comiection with Save Our
Sons since you returned, have you ?
Mr. Spencer. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Any questions, Mr. Doyle?
Mr. Doyle. No questions.
The Chairman. Any questions, Mr. Kearney ?
Mr. Kearney. No questions.
The Chairman. I want to thank you for your contribution here.
If there would be more people like you come forward, perhaps the
American people would not be so naive as to permit these parasites
to play on the perfectly normal and natural feelings of the decent
people of America.
You are excused with our thanks.
( Witness excused. )
The Chairiman. The committee will recess for 5 minutes.
(A\niereupon, a brief recess was taken, tliere being present at the
time of the recess Eepresentatives Walter, Doyle, and Kearney.)
(The subcommittee was reconvened at the expiration of the recess,
there being present Representatives Walter, Doyle, and Kearney.)
The Chairman. Are you ready ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir.
Mrs. Gowgiel, will you come forward, please ?
TESTIMONY OF FLORENCE GOWGIEL, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JOSEPH EOEER— Eesumed
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Gowgiel, I hand you issue No. 4 of Save Our
Sons publication, and point out to you a letter appearing there over
the name of Erdis Spencer, POW camp. W^ill you examine that,
please, and state whether or not that is a correct copy of a letter re-
ceived from him or whether the letter which ^vas received from him
was changed ?
(Document handed to the witness.)
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer, on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a letter received by Mr. and Mrs. Slater,
m an envelope on the outside of which is a return address of Save Our
Sons, bearing date of February 17, 1953, at the end of which is the
name Dale E. Jones, and I will ask you whether or not that entire
letter is fictitious, and if you wrote it ?
(Document handed to die witness.)
Mr. Forer. Is the question whether Mrs. Gowgiel wrote that letter?
Mr. Iaa^nner. 1 es.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. No ; I didn't write the letter.
5140 COMJMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. Tavenner. Did you receive that letter ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Who did write it ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. In other words, you know who wrote it, but you
won't tell the committee, because to do so might tend to incriminate
you ? Is that your answer ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. FoRER. That is a different question.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I don't understand the question.
Mr. Tamsnner. Will you read her the question ?
(The record was read by the reporter.)
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. No ; that isn't my answer.
Mr. Tavenner. What is that?
Mrs. GowGiEL. No ; that is not the answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, isn't that true ?
Mrs. Gow^GiEL. No ; that Avasn't the answer.
Mr. Tavenner. Your answer was you would not tell the committee
who wrote this letter because you relied on the fifth amendment. That
is correct, isn't it?
Mrs. Gowgiel. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. And you relied on the fifth amendment because to
tell the truth about it might tend to incriminate you ?
(The witness confers with here counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. Well, I think that is possible.
Mr. Tavenner. And that means that you know who did write it,
doesn't it?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer, for the same reason.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Czarnowski testified before the committee that
you made many statements before the Argo branch of the Communist
Party indicating that bacterial warfare had been used by the Ameri-
can troops in Korea and that the American troops were guilty of
various types of atrocities. Is that true or false that you did do those
things ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. It is false.
Mr. Tavenner. That is false?
Mrs. Gowgiel. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, you did actually circulate propaganda for
the purpose of getting people to believe that the United States did
engage in germ warfare, didn't you ?
(The witness confers with her counsel. )
Mrs. Gowgiel. I am very sure I never did, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you send to Congressman McVey from Illi-
nois this document. Bacteria Warfare, Threat to World Peace?
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I don't remember.
Mr. Tavenner. You don't remember.
Mrs. Gowgiel. No, sir.
COMIVIUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5141
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever seen that document before or one
like it?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I don't remember.
Mr. Tavenner. You don't remember. Did you send to Congress-
man Mc Yey the April 23, 1952, issue of the National Guardian, at
which appears on page 3 an article entitled "Are We Dropping Disease
on China and Korea. Germ warfare : the facts and the evidence." ?
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I don't remember.
Mr. Tavenner. You don't remember ?
Mr. Kjearney. Will you say you didn't send it ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I don't remember, sir.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. What did you send to Congressman McVey ?
Mr. FoRER. She didn't say she sent anything.
Mr. Tai'enner. I am asking her. What did you send to Congress-
man McVey '?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I don't remember.
Mr. Tavenner. Congressman McVey is your Congressman; isn't
he?
Mrs. GowGiEL. Yes.
Mr. Ta%t:nner. Did you send him anything ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I don't remember.
Mr. Tavenner. You don't remember.
Mr. Kearney. When was this material supposed to be sent Mr.
Tavenner ?
Mr, Tavenner. I hand you a publication entitled "United Nations
POW's in Korea." Will you examine it, please, and state whether
or not you circulated that document ?
(Document handed to the witness.)
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I remember getting two copies of that, but I don't
know or remember sending it to anyone.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you advise the readers of your publication to
procure it ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. FoRER. You said "your publication" ?
Mr. Taat^nner. Yes. Save Our Sons. I think it would be fair to
call it hers.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Would you change your answer if, instead of say-
ing "your publication," to state whether or not the publication Save
Our Sons advised its readers to procure that document?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. No ; that wouldn't change my answer.
Mr. Ta\'enner. Will you examine it and see how many pages it
contains.
^Irs. Gowgiel. Ninety-two.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me read to you from issue No. 4 of Save Our
Sons, as follows :
5142 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Report on Care of U. N. POW's
An SOS member sent us this news item from the Chicago Tribune :
"Geneva, Switzerland, May 23 (AP).— Mrs. Lu Teh Chun, health minister,
delegate to League of Red Cross Societies, astonished delegates with a glossy
92-page brochure on life of United States Eighth Army prisoners in Communist
hands, published by Chinese People's Committee for World Peace, Peipiug,
China."
We wrote for a copy of the brochure and suggest that any person who is
anxious to know how POW's are being treated in North Korea write to the
Chinese People's Committee, China, for this reassuring brochure. Your own.
POW's photograph may be there.
Didn't you write that in the fourth issue of Save Our Sons ?
(Document handed to the witness.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
(The committee and Mr. Tavenner confer.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, during the course of testimony be-
fore this committee in October 1953, the committee heard a former
prisoner of war by the name Lieutenant Ray M. Dowe, Jr. Lieutenant
Dowe was handed this very document, this 92-page document, pub-
lished by Chinese People's Committee for World Peace, Peking, China,
and was asked this question :
Does that document, without going into great detail here, and without taking
it up point by point, give an accurate picture of prisoner-of-war life in Korea,
as you knew it, or is it entirely false and fictitious and misleading?
Lieutenant Dowe. Many instances in this book portray an artificial situation
which was created by the Chinese right at the end, and the purpose of that was
twofold : One, to attempt to make the prisoners forget what had happened in
their early days, and, two, to create a propaganda situation which they could
utilize in this world propaganda.
As far as its relation to the situation in 195.3 in the prison camps and the situa-
tion prior to that time, as you look back it grows steadily worse, and to take
a book which is a compilation of posed photographs, for the most part, which is
exactly what this is, at a stage when things had been changed entirely from the
situation which had existed the majority of the time we were PW's, you can't
in any way state that that is a picture of conditions in PW camps run by the
Communists.
Did you know that this was a propaganda product of the Commu-
nist Party in China at the time you recommended it to readers ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I haven't testified that I recommended it.
Mr. Tavenner. Well, it is in the publication, the fourth issue of Save
Our Sons, which bears the Post Office Box 95, Argo, 111., which was
your post office box. You were chairman of Save Our Sons. Do you
mean that you deny responsibiliy for the appearance of that article
in your paper ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. In the paper. Save Our Sons ?
Mr. Forer. Is that the question ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes.
Do you deny responsibility for it ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I also, Mr. Chairman, would like for the record here
to include a reference by Sgt. John Spivey, another witness who ap-
peared before this committee.
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5143
The testimony was given on October 23, 1953, in which he was asked
this question :
I have in my hand a booklet entitled "The United Nations POW's in Korea,"
which has already been introduced in evidence in previous hearings in connec-
tion with the subject that is before us today. I hand you this document, and
ask if you have seen it before?
Mr. Spivey replied that he had.
He was asked if it was an accurate picture of the life that the i)ris-
oners of war led in Korea. The reply was :
Sergeant Spivey. No, it doesn't. It shows a picture of the fellows before and
after. That is a lot of malarkey, because they can rig up those pictures the way
they want to rig them up.
Mr. KuNziG. Do you know as a fact that they did rig up the pictures?
Sergeant Spivey. Yes.
I hand you a document entitled "Out of Their Own Mouths, Revela-
tions and Confessions written by American soldiers of torture, rape,
arson, looting and coldblooded murder of defenseless civilians and
prisoners of war in Korea," put out by the Red Cross Society of
China, Peking, 1952. I will ask you to examine it and state whether
or not you urged the reading of that document. [Hands document to
witness.]
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I don't remember seeing this.
Mr. TaM':xner. Did you I'ecommend the reading of any documents
published by the Red Cross of China ?
Mrs. GowoiEL. I don't remember.
Mr. TA^^5N>fER. You don't remember.
I read into evidence here a few moments ago a statement in your
April-May issue of 1956 of Save Our Sons, regarding an invitation that
had been extended to you to go to Switzerland as a delegate from the
United States to a convention of the International Committee of
Mothers. Did you attend such a convention ?
(The witness confers w^ith her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenxer. At Lausanne, Switzerland, in 1956 ? '•
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer, on the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. What is the name of the organization ?
Mr. Tavenner. International Committee of Mothers.
The Chairman. You refuse to answer a question as to whether or not
you were invited to attend that meeting on the grounds that to do so
might incriminate you ? Is that it ? •
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. FoRER. She was asked whether she attended that meeting and
she refused to answer under the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. Did you receive an invitation to attend this meet-
ing?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GoAVGiEL. I refuse, on the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. You refuse, because the International Committee
of Mothers is a Communist organization, is it not ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. No.
The Chairman. It is not ?
- Mrs. GowGiEL. I didn't say that.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
5144 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA A]\IONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the basis of my privilege of the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Kearney. Then your answer is changed from "No" to you refuse
to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment ; is that so ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I haven't changed my answer.
Mr. Kearney. Didn't you say "Xo" a minute ago ?
Mr. FoRER. She said "No" in answer to a question of : Did she refuse
for this reason ; and she said "No," she refused for another reason.
Mr. Kearney. She is saying "No" for a lot of reasons, all right.
There is no question about that.
Mr. Ta\^nner. I hand }■ ou a photostatic copy of an application for a
passport, which purports to be an application signed by Florence
Gowgiel, bearing date of August 10, 1955. Will you examine it, please,
and state whether or not it is your application. [Hands document
to witness.]
(The witness confers with her comisel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer, on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Is the signature appearing at the bottom of the
application your signature ?
Mrs. Gow^GiEL. I refuse to answer, on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you examine it again, please, and state whether
or not the photograph appearing on the second page is your photo-
graph ?
Mr. GowiEL. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend-
ment.
Mr. Tavenner. I desire to offer the document in evidence and ask
that it be marked "Gowgiel Exhibit No. 5," for identification pur-
poses only.
(The document referred to was marked "Gowgiel Exhibit No. 5"
for identification in the files of the committee.)
The Chairman. Has the passport been issued ?
Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir ; it is our information.
The Chairman. In view of that, did you have that passport issued
to you ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I refuse to answer, on the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. I direct you to answer that question, because it is
inconceivable that anybody could be prosecuted for admitting that
the United States Government issued a passport. You are directed
to answer that question. Have you had a passport issued to you ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. Yes.
The Chairman. You have ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. Yes.
Mr. Taa^nner. That is a valid passport at this time ; is it ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. That is right.
Mr. Tavenner. You could travel to any country in the world, unless
there is some prohibition in the passport itself, right at this time, under
that passport, could you not ?
Mrs. Gowgiel. I think so.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you traveled under that passport to any for-
eign country ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5145
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer, under the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. I direct you to answer the question, as to whether
you have used the passport.
Mrs. GowGiEL. I will abide by my refusal.
Mr. Ta\t^nner. It is noted from the application for passport that
it is stated that the countries to be visited are Paris, France — did you
go to Paris ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer, under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you fjo to any other place in France ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer, under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Actually, you never intended to go to France at
all. You wanted to go to Switzerland for an entirely different pur-
pose than that named in your application ; isn't that true ?
(The witness confers with her counsel. )
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer, under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Ta\t.nner. Your application says that the purpose of the trip
is visiting and touring. That was false, too ; was it not ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer, under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. The document which I read in evidence shows that
you did actually attend a convention of the International Committee
of Mothers, in Switzerland. Why did you not state on your appli-
cation that you proposed to go to Switzerland to attend this particular
meeting ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I haven't identified that application.
Mr. TA^*ENNER. I say: Why did you not advise the State Depart-
ment when you obtained your passport that the real purpose of
your desiring a passport was to go to Switzerland instead of going
to France ?
Mr. FoRER. Your question is assuming a fact that is not in evidence.
Mr. Tavenner. I think the question is perfectly plain.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer, under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Wasn't there a reason for your concealing the real
purpose of your trip ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. Will you repeat it ?
Mr. Ta^t:nner. Wasn't there a reason for your failure to give the
State Department correct information as to the purpose of your
trip ?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that the affidavit of the identifying
witness on your application was signed by Elizabeth Mitterer,
M-i-t-t-e-r-e-r. Was Elizabeth Mitterer the same person who ap-
peared as a witness here yesterday ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer, under the fifth amendment.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavennfji. Was Elizabeth Mitterer the secretary-treasurer of
Save Our Sons Committee ?
5146 COIMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KORE.\N WAR PRISONERS
JMrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer, on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, how the Inter-
national Committee of Mothers possessed in Germany a list of the
names of persons in this country to be circularized by that organi-
zation ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you give the name of Mrs. Jones, of luka. 111.,
to the International Committee of Mothers, for the purpose of having
her circularized with literature ?
Mrs. GowGiEL, I refuse to answer, under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party on
the 25th day of October 1952', which was the date of the fomiding
convention of Save Our Sons Committee ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer, under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at
any time in February or March 1956?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Ta%^nner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mrs. GowGiEL. I refuse to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party
at any time that I have not specifically inquired about?
Mrs. Gow^GiEL. I refuse to answer, under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
Mr. Kearney. On this organization, known as the Save Our Sons,
did you have a son in the service ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. GowGiEL. Will you repeat that?
Mr. Kearney. Did you have a a son in the service ?
Mrs. Gow^GiEL. A son?
Mr. Kearney. Yes. This organization is Save Our Sons.
Mrs. Gow^giel. I had a son-in-law.
Mrs. Kearney. You had a son-in-law in the service ?
The Chairman. Wlien were you born, Mrs. Gowgiel.
Mrs. Gowgiel. November 14, 1914.
The Chairman. In Chicago?
Mrs. Gowgiel. No, in Argo.
The Chairman. Not in Chicago?
Mrs. Gowgiel. No, sir.
The Chairman. Is your first name "Florence"?
Mrs. Gowgiel. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. This application for a passport certainly demon-
strates the need for this legislation. You are excused.
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I have another question or two.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Ta^tsnner. First of all I would like to have introduced for
identification a document entitled "Bacteriological Warfare,"^ ob-
tained from the office of Congressman McVey, and ask that it be
marked "Gowgiel Exhibit No. 6" ; and also the April 23, 1952, issue
of the National Guardian, and ask that it be marked for identification
purposes as "Gowgiel Exhibit No. 7."
(The documents referred to were marked "Gowgiel Exhibits, Nos. 6
and 7," for identification in the files of the committee.)
COJMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AjMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5147
Mr, Ta\tenner. I have called your attention, prior to this, Mrs.
Gowgiel, to the fact that each of the issues of Save Our Sons con-
cludes with a request to send in contributions to Save Our Sons. Did
Save Our Sons organization or you comply with any law of the State
of Illinois with regard to solicitation of funds?
(The witness conferred with her counsel.)
Mrs. GrowGiEL. I refuse to answer, under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether the State of Illinois has a
statute requiring the licensing of organizations seeking, or soliciting
funds ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Gowgiel. I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. Some States have such laws. The State of New
York does, for instance. The State of California does. If the State
of Illinois had such a law% you would have had to qualify the Save
Our Sons organization under such a law before you were licensed to
solicit funds.
The Chairman. That would not necessarily follow as to her or-
ganization. I do not suppose it would bother registering, for obvious
reasons.
Mr. Tavenner. There is one reason, Mr. Chairman, that some
thought might well be given to restrictions of some type for organi-
zations of this kind, in soliciting funds, such as through licensing, or
maybe by congressional action.
The Chair3ian. There is a Federal statute, if you attempt to solicit
through the mails.
Mr. Tavenner. On the grounds of fraudulent use of the mails.
The Chairman. Any further questions?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
The Chairman. The witness is excused.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Buckner.
The Chairman. Will you raise your right hand, please ?
Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. Buckner. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MES. MARY PHILLIPS BUCKNER, ACCOMPANIED
BY COUNSEL, JOSEPH FORER
Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is your name, please ?
Mrs. Buckner. ISIary Phillips Buckner.
Mr. Tavenner. B-u-c-k-n-e-r?
Mrs. Buckner. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ta\^nner. It is noted that the witness is accompanied by coun-
sel, who accompanied the preceding witness.
Where do you live, Mrs, Buckner ?
Mrs. Buckner. Lemont, Cook County, 111.
Mr. Tavenner. At Lemont, Cook County, 111. Please speak a little
louder as I do not believe the committee members can hear you.
Mrs. Buckner. I will try.
Mr. TA^^3NNER. How long have you lived at Lemont ?
Mrs. Buckner. Seventeen or eighteen years.
Mr. Tavenner. "\Yliat was your maiden name ?
5148 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mrs. BucKNER. Phillips.
Mr. Tavenner. Phillips. Mrs. Buckiier, were you present in the
hearing room when Mrs. Mitterer testified.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. BucKNER. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. A subpena duces tecum was served on her as the
secretary-treasurer of Save Our Sons Committee, requiring her to
produce certain records. Among them were the canceled checks and
bank statements. Do you know where the canceled checks and bank
statements of Save Our Sons Committee are ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. BucKNER, I don't know.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever known ?
Mrs. BucKNER. No, sir.
Mr. Tavenner. You do not know in whose custody they are ?
Mrs. Buckner. No, sir ; I don't know a thing about them.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know where any of the records of Save Our
Sons Committee are, at this time ?
Mrs. Buckner. I know nothing about any records.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Buckner, were you at one time a member of
the Argo Branch of the Communist Party in Argo, 111. ?
(The witness confers with, her counsel.)
Mrs. Buckner. I refuse to answer that question under the privilege
of the fifth amendment, not to testify against myself, and on the right
of the first amendment of free press and free speech and free exercise
of my religion.
Mr. Tavenner. It has been testified here that, when the Argo branch
of the Communist Party became hard up for money, that they called
on the lady from Lemont to contribute tinanciall}^ to the cause of the
party.
Mr. FoRER. You mean there were times when they weren't hard up.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of occasions when that occurred?
When the lady from Lemont w^as called upon for financial aid ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Buckner. I decline to answer on the privilege of the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Kearney. I would like to ask the witness if this hearing is a
joke to her ?
Mrs. Buckner. It certainly is not. It has caused me too much grief
to call it a joke.
Mr. Kearney. I am glad to hear you say that because, by your at-
tude, I thought maybe it was.
Mrs. Buckner. No, sir ; it isn't.
Mr. Kearney. Proceed.
Mr. Ta\t3Nner. Were you active in the work of the American Peace
Crusade prior to the formation of Save Our Sons Committee ?
Mrs. Buckner. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
above stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I have before me a copy of the minutes of sponsors'
meeting of the American Peace Crusade, held March 15, 1951, in Wash-
ington, D. C. Did you attend that meeting of sponsors ?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Buckner. I decline to answer, on the grounds above stated.
COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS 5149
Mr. TA^TiNNER. FroiTi the minutes, it appears that proposals were
:inade for a slate for the planning committee of the American Peace
Crusade, and the names of those persons who were proposed appear
there.
Your name is not among those slated for the planning committee,
but in a paragraph below appears this :
Other suggestions included —
then a number of names — it looks like 15 or 20, and among them —
Miss Mary Phillips.
Will you explain to the committee how it was that the minutes of
that meeting show that your name was being suggested for the plan-
ning connnittee?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. FoRER. Would you mind explaining that question ? *
Mr. Ta\t:nner. Yes. If it will help her, I will show her a copy of
^he minutes.
Mr. Forer. What is the question? We understood what you said
was in the minutes.
]Mr. Tavenner. The question was : Can you explain to the commit-
tee how it is that your name appears as one of those suggested for the
planning committee ?
(Tlie witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Buckner. I decline to answer on the grounds above stated.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you ever selected for the planning committee ?
(The witness confers with her counsel. )
Mrs. BucKNER. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Tavenner. Had you been active with Mrs. Florence Gowgiel
in the work of the American Peace Crusade prior to the formation of
the Save Our Sons Committee ?
(The witness confers with lier counsel.)
Mrs. BucKNER. I decline to answer on the grounds above stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I believe you were in the hearing room at the time
Mr. Czarnowski testified that you gave him an order for the painting
of two signs of Save Our Sons, to be used in some advertising work in
which that committee engaged. Now, you expressed considerable
surprise at that. Was it because you did not hear that testimony
or because there is no truth in it ?
Mr. FoRER. Wait a minute. You say she expressed surprise.
Mr. Tavenner. Yes; considerable surprise when I asked the
question.
Mr. Forer. You mean just now ?
Mr. Tavenner. I am addressing the witness.
Mr. FoRER. I am soriy.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mr. Tavenner. You say you are having difficulty understanding
me. I think I heard that. I will repeat it.
Mrs. BucKNER. I had difficulty understanding that man yesterday.
I don't know half of what he said. I couldn't understand him.
Mr. Tavenner. Let me explain what he said.
Mr. FoRER. I don't think it is fair for you to say that she showed
surprise. I don't know how you could read her mind.
5150 COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA AMONG KOREAN WAR PRISONERS
Mr. Tavenner. There was no trouble in the world of seeing that.
It was testified by Mr. Czarnowski that on one occasion you gave
him an order for the painting of two signs of Save Our Sons. I do
not recall what those sign?, were used for. I am reminded that it
was for the State fair in Illinois. Do you recall that ?
Mrs. BucKNER. I decline to answer on the grounds above stated.
The Chairman. Did you ever give him an order to prepare any
signs ?
(The witness confers with her comisel.)
Mrs. Buckner. I decline to answer on the grounds above stated.
Mr. Tavenner. We have shown here that a very small sum of
mone}^ went through the bank account of Save Our Sons organiza-
tion, notwithstanding considerable work was done by that organiza-
tion. Do you know anything about that, as to how the funds were
handled ?
Mrs. Buckner. I decline to answer on the grounds above stated.
Mr. Taat:nner. Did you help finance the operation of Save Our
Sons?
Mrs. Buckner. I decline to answer that question also, on the
grounds above stated.
The Chairman. Did you ever make any financial contributions to
any so-called peace organizations?
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Buckner. I decline to answer on the grounds above stated.
The Chairman. "WHiat criminal prosecution do you fear for ad-
mitting that you are supporting peace movements? Everybody is for
peace.
(The witness confers with her counsel.)
Mrs. Buckner. I decline to answer on the same grounds.
Mr. Ta^-enner. "Were you transferred from the Argo branch of the
Communist Party to the Northside branch of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Buckner. I decline to answer such a question on the grounds
above stated.
Mr. Ta\-enner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mrs. Buckner. I decline to answer that question on the grounds
above stated.
Mr. Ta\^nner. Have you at any time been a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mrs. Buckner. I decline to answer the question.
Mr. Tavenner. In the past ?
Mrs. Buckner. On the grounds stated.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.
The Chairman. Have you any questions ?
Mr. Doyle. No.
Mr. Kearney. No.
The Chairman. There are no further questions. The witness is
excused.
The committee will recess, to meet at 10 tomorrow morning.
("Wliereupon, at 3 : 65 p. m., June 19, the committee recessed until
10 o'clock a. m., Wednesday, June 20, 1956, there being present Repre-
sentatives Walter, Doyle, and Kearney.)
X
INDEX
Individuals
Page
Belfrage, Cedric 5107, 5124
Bernstein 5090
Buckner, Mary Phillips 5097, 5098, 5147-5150 (testimony)
Carlson, Anton 5119
Chun, Mrs. Lu Teh 5142
Cortor, William 5118
Czaruowski, Anzelm A 5085-5100 (testimony), 5113, 5119, 5140, 5149, 5150
Degrew, Bobby R 5123
Dowe, Ray M., Jr 5142
Forer, Joseph 5100, 5111, 5139, 5147
Gieben, Wilma 5096
Gojack, John 5093
Gowgiel, Florence 5087-5099,5101,5102,5106,5111-5125 (testimony),
5128, 5130-5134, 5136, 5138, 5139-5147 (testimony), 5149
Greene, Emily Balch 5119
Hardyman, Hugh 5095
Jones, Dale E 5123, 5125-5134 (testimony), 5139
Kimmel, Lou 5118
Kiinger, Ed 5091
Kni&ht, John 5100
Lightfoot, Claude 5095, 5096, 5099
Lovett, Robert Morss 5089
Mitterer, Elizabeth 5100-5109 (testimony), 5116, 5145, 5148
Noyes, Henry 5092, 5093
Powell, John 5124
Schumacher, Brockman 5117, 5118
Slater, V. R 5123, 5131, 5132, 5139
Slater, Mrs. V. R 5123, 5131, 5132, 5139
Spencer, Erdis 5134-5139 (testimony)
Spivey, John 5142, 5143
Voss, Bob 5092
Wilson, Charlie 5091
Organizations
American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born 5097
American Peace Cru.sade 5088, 5089, 5091, 5093, 5097, 5119
Auto Workers, United. CIO, Local 719 5087
Chinese People's Committee for World Peace 5142
International Committee of Mothers 5133, 5134, 514.5, 5146
Communist Party, Illinois :
Argo: Argo Branch 5086-5088,5093-5097
Chicago: Northside Branch 5097
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 5087
National Council of American Soviet Friendship 5007
Save Our Sons Committee 5087-5091, 5093-5095,
5097-5099, 5101-5103, 5105, 5118, 5119, 5122, 5127. 5128, 5130, 5136
St. Louis Emergency Defense Committee 5117,5118
Publications
National Guardian 5124
United Nations POW's in Korea 5141,5143
BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY
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